Conversate

In this week's episode, Aaron and Kevin have a conversation about the reality of Christian persecution and martyrdom. To this day there are thousands of Christians who annually have their lives taken for simply believing in Jesus Christ. In addition to that, in 2024, 380 million Christians were constantly under persecution in such ways as threats, job loss, abduction, homes and churches destroyed, etc. We pray that you'll hear something in this conversation that will inspire you to start another conversation with someone else. We hope you enjoy it!

In this week's episode, Aaron and Kevin are talking about truth. In a cultural time, such as ours, that has essentially abandoned the idea of objective truth in exchange for truth that is determined by an individual's preferences or beliefs, it can be hard to know what really is true. Call us old fashioned, but as Biblical Christians, we hold to absolute truths. We believe that there are things that are true simply because they're true. In the context of this conversation, we believe that everything recorded in the Bible about Jesus is true. Therefore what he has done is true. What he has said is true. And what he promises to do is true. Truth always wins out at the end of the day. Our goal is that you'll take something you hear in this conversation and go start another conversation about Jesus with someone else. We hope you enjoy it!

In this week's episode Aaron and Kevin are discussing the name Jesus. The Bible tells us that the name of Jesus is power, that it is salvation, and that there is no other name that is above his name. So, what does it look like for us to cling to the name of Jesus and speak it into reality in our own lives and the lives of others. There's a very practical question that the guys discuss which is, "How often do we actually speak, out loud, the name of Jesus?" We hope you find something in the conversation that inspires you to start another conversation about Jesus with someone else. We hope you enjoy it! 

In this week's episode Pastor Kevin sits down with Elder and long time member: John Pemberton to talk about the Holy Spirit.In Acts 2 an incredible thing happened. God poured out His Holy Spirit on Jesus' disciples. This was a watershed moment in history. Before this time, the Holy Spirit was only given to a select few. After this moment, God would continue to pour it out onto the many.If you are a follower of Jesus. If you have repented and received His forgiveness. If you have been baptized --- receiving the Holy Spirit is your expectation too. It's God's promise!But what does that look like? How do we know if/when we're hearing from Him? In this conversation John and Kevin share their own spiritual experiences and offer guidance and encouragement for trusting the working of God's Spirit in every Christian's life.We hope you enjoy it!

In this week's episode Aaron and Kevin have a conversation about how the Book of Acts begins. Having just finished up a sermon series on Luke, we're turning the page into Luke's 2nd book of the Bible, "Acts." This is the story of what happened after Jesus' ascension into heaven. Therefore, we are still part of this ongoing story as well. In this conversation Aaron and Kevin talk about the ascension of Jesus as a key event in Jesus' (and the apostles') life, the work of the Holy Spirit, and the sending of the apostles into Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and to the ends of the Earth. We hope you enjoy it!

In this week's episode Aaron and Kevin sit down with Austin Krautheim. Austin is a farming father of four girls who loves his little hobby farm when he's not working as the facilities manager at Saints Peter and Paul. Oh, and he's got a rockin' beard. This conversation is a dive into the joys of living on this side of Easter. As always our goal is that you'll hear something in this conversation that will inspire you to go start another spiritual conversation with someone else. We hope you enjoy it! 

In this week's conversation, Aaron and Kevin talk about Palm Sunday (and the rest of Holy Week as well) as they share our own experiences walking through this journey with Jesus. We hope you enjoy it!

Have you heard of the character in the Bible named "Zacchaeus?" His story only shows up in the Gospel of Luke. It's not in Matthew, Mark, or John. And, it's just a quick 10 verses. Yet, it's quite common to find Zacchaeus' story in many children's Bible stories and Sunday School Curriculums. But, why? In this conversation, Aaron and Kevin unpack this beloved story and draw many connections to our lives today. As always, we hope you enjoy this conversation and it inspires you to go start another conversation about Jesus with someone else. We hope you enjoy it!P.S. We're sorry about our audio quality today... it's not what you're normally used to. It was human error! We got excited about improved video quality and forgot to press a button to make our microphones work! "Can't win 'em all," they say. :) 

In this week's episode, Aaron and Kevin are joined by guest Alex Dewald. Alex has been a member of Saints Peter and Paul Lutheran Church in Houghton, MI for basically his entire life from the time he was adopted at age 3 from Russia. Alex shares his story of growing up in the church, but how he fell away from active engagement with his church community and his faith, replacing that with a pursuit of the things in this world. He had a moment where he sensed God calling out to him to return, and from there, he followed the leading of the Holy Spirit and got involved in a discipleship relationship with Pastor Kevin which has drastically changed his life and walk with Jesus. As always, this is a faith-filled conversation which we hope will inspire you to go and start another conversation about Jesus with someone else. We hope you enjoy it!  

The parable of the Good Samaritan is a beloved story. Perhaps it's the best known of all the parables that Jesus tells. It's one thing to know the story, it's another to let it affect you and change your heart and behavior. That's the reason Jesus told it in the first place. There was a lawyer who was trying to put Jesus to the test and the man wanted to justify his behaviors. He was pretty certain he was keeping the law of God just fine. But, Jesus forced him to think differently. In this conversation, Aaron and Kevin discuss this parable, give some more Scriptural background to the events and characters included, and apply it to our modern context. As always we hope you enjoy it! 

In this week's episode, Aaron and Kevin have a conversation about the time that Jesus forgave a prostitute of her sins. It's very easy for us to quickly judge and determine the seriousness of people's sins (according to our own understanding). We're quick to acknowledge that someone like a prostitute must be a serious sinner, while I, who has never done anything close to prostitution, am not as much of a sinner. But, what we learn in this story from Luke 7 is that Jesus offers his grace to everyone. Everyone is given the same opportunity to be forgiven! AND, more than that, sin is not just about what we do wrong. But, we're also sinning when we claim that we are without sin, because that's just a lie. As always, we hope you hear something in this conversation that encourages you to go and start another Spiritual conversation with someone else. We hope you enjoy it! 

It's our 200th episode! Thanks for hanging with us all these years week after week. It's truly our joy to have these conversations and we just pray that they are edifying for you and inspiring you to start Spiritual conversations with those you have relationships with. In this conversation, we're talking about young Jesus. What do we know? What don't know we know? We'll take a look at these questions and much more. We hope you enjoy it!

For the past 8 weeks, Saints Peter & Paul has been working through 1 Corinthians 10-14, discovering their "Spiritual Giftedness" - as Paul once shared with that Corinthian congregation.But, this was no mere reality for the Christians in Corinth. As the rest of the New Testament makes evident (Romans 12:3-8, Ephesians 4:11-16, and 1 Peter 4:10-11) - these gifts are for ALL Christians at ALL times and ALL places!So...how are you "gifted for good"?In this conversation, Pastor Kevin and Marcus Huff discuss their own journeys to discovering their gifts, and encourage the listener to explore their gifts in community.Are you a member of Saints Peter & Paul? Listen and consider what opportunities you might be gifted for! That we all might share in the joy of connecting our God-given talents, to a God-given purpose.We hope you enjoy it!

One of the things that Christian churches (and Christians in general) are most known for is their public worship. For a lot of people, that's all that they know about Christians. "Those are the people who go to the church on Sunday mornings." Obviously, if you're a Christian, you know that our Christian walk is all-encompassing of our life. It's not just relegated to the one hour on Sunday mornings. And yet, that one hour on Sunday mornings is still VERY significant. But, why? Perhaps you've heard people say, or even said yourself, "Why do I need to go to church on Sunday to be a Christian? I can believe in Jesus and just worship him on my own." Is that really possible? In this week's conversation, we're going to discuss ideas like that and others that people have about Christian public worship. We hope you enjoy it! 

In this week's episode, Aaron and Kevin depart a little bit from the norm of discussing the sermon theme to talk about their most recent trip to the Best Practices for Ministry Conference. What did they do? What did they learn? How did they contribute? Much more about that in this week's conversation. We hope you enjoy it! 

In this week's episode, Aaron and Kevin discuss what it looks like to live as the body of Christ. They share some real life examples of how people can come together in their unique giftedness to be a blessing to one another and be built up together into Christ. We hope you enjoy it! 

In this week's episode, Aaron and Kevin discuss the beginning of 1 Corinthians 12 where we learn about spiritual gifts. What sort of exposure have you had to the teaching about spiritual gifts? Perhaps you have been involved in a church that really emphasized the gifts. Perhaps you've taken a spiritual gifts inventory. But, what is the point of the spiritual gifts in 1 Corinthians 12. Why did the Apostle Paul write to them about these things. And, what about us? Should we pursue spiritual gifts? Do we have them? If we do, what should we do with them? We discuss all these questions in this week's episode. We hope you enjoy it! 

In this week's episode, Aaron and Kevin are discussing the Lord's Supper: what is it and what are its benefits. The Lord's Supper is celebrated across the board at different Christian churches. But, what is believed and practiced differs greatly. We all do it because Jesus said, "Do it." Yet, there is so much variance in doctrine and practice that it can get a little confusing. In this conversation, Aaron and Kevin have a conversation about these differences, and hope to point us to the key central blessings that God promises to deliver. We hope you enjoy it! 

In this week's conversation, Aaron and Kevin are having a conversation about Christian freedom. What are we free from, and what are we free for? As Americans, and... perhaps just as people in general... we tend to focus on our own individual freedom. We want to believe that we are our own boss and that things are best when we have the say over our lives. Yet, that's not the fullness of what God gives to us when he frees us from sin, death, and the devil. When we are freed from those enemies, we are actually free FOR the good of our neighbors and the building up of the body of Christ. In this conversation, we discuss this and the practical, modern day examples of how we encounter this dilemma. We hope you find something to put into practice and discuss with others in this conversation. We hope you enjoy it! 

In this week's episode, Pastor Kevin sits down with office manager - Carrie Rich. In this conversation they chat about New Years Eve and New Years Resolutions, as well as the story from Luke 2 - where the boy Jesus is found in the temple in Jerusalem.What significance does that story have in the lives of Christians? Why should our ears be "struck" when we hear people call God "Father" (or use that term ourselves!)? Listen and consider your own relationship to God...and what it means to be called His child.We hope you enjoy this conversation!

Xin grew up in Beijing China in a religiously secular home. In her pursuit of science and engineering, she came to the United States for continuing education. It was upon her arrival to the US that she was introduced to Christianity. At the time, this was not a positive experience for her, and she continued to keep distance from Christian people. Eventually, she and her husband were looking for childcare in the Copper Country for their daughters. A place they had hoped to attend rejected them, and by the grace of God led them to the Early Learning Center at Saints Peter and Paul. It was here, then, that conversations about Christianity started happening again, and everything began changing. Listen to Xin eloquently tell her story of life and journey to follow Jesus.

In this week's episode, Aaron and Kevin discuss the visit of Mary to Elizabeth. In this scene, John (inside Elizabeth's womb) leaps for joy because Jesus is there! Think about that. It's amazing that these children are interacting within the wombs of their own mothers. What role does joy play in your life? Do you have a joyful life? There are a lot of misconceptions about what it means to live a life of joy. The guys will discuss those in this conversation and help us to get to a Biblical understanding of joy. As always, we hope you enjoy it!

Have you ever heard that phrase "in the shadows" before? What sort of image does that conjure up in your mind? Likely, you think of the activity of criminals or secret societies. In Luke 1, the angel Gabriel tells Mary that the "power of the most high will overshadow her." What do you think? Is that a negative comment or a positive one? In this week's conversation, Aaron and Kevin are talking about this announcement to Mary, and the metaphorical language of light and shadows. We hope that you'll take something you hear in this conversation and start another conversation with someone else. We hope you enjoy it! 

In this week's episode, Aaron and Kevin have a conversation about waiting. Why is it so hard for us to patiently wait? Is there something we're missing by rushing through the waiting? What if God is showing up and giving us unique opportunities in those daily interruptions? We'll discuss this and more as we enter the season of Advent and longingly, and eagerly wait for the coming of Christ into our lives. 

The Greek word "Apocalypse" is the name of the last book of the Bible. Sometimes when we hear that word - Apocalypse - we think of catastrophe and destruction and chaos. But the word actually means what it's translated into in our Bibles: "Revelation" or "revealing."In this week's episode, Pastor Kevin sits down with Nancy Smith - a long time member of Saints Peter & Paul. Nancy "reveals" stories of her life, and how the Gospel - and the grace that it teaches - shaped her marriage, her family relationships, and her life.Through her sharing you might notice the courage she has to share her life stories. Because, as Nancy knows, she is not defined by the "Old Adam" (the sinful flesh that manifests in our lives), but by the "New Adam" (the new creation that she is - as one fundamentally defined by Christ and His grace).Blessings to you as you hear Nancy's stories, and consider the story God is writing in your life - and how His grace changes it all.As always, we hope you enjoy it!

In this week's episode, Aaron and Kevin are discussing what it means to be new people. The new testament often describes the Christian life as being "new." "The old has gone, the new has come" (2 Corinthians 5:17). But what does it mean to "be new?" The guys talk practically about this and share stories of people's lives who have drastically changed as they found freedom in the newness of life Christ offers. If you're struggling to let go of your past sins, and the guilt associated with them, or if you're still harboring anger towards those who have offended you, then this conversation is going to be good for you. As always, we hope you enjoy it!

In this week's episode, Aaron and Kevin are talking about Jesus. You might think...but...don't you always talk about Jesus? And you're right, we do. Want to know why? Because, without Jesus, Christianity is nothing. He's the one guy on which the whole thing stands and falls. Every page of the Bible is pointing to Jesus and is fulfilled in Jesus. As we've been looking at the story line of the Scriptures the last few weeks, in this episode we see how Jesus is at the climax of the story. Just like in any good book or movie, a story line arc hits that climactic moment. That's Jesus in the story of the Bible. Throw in a few comments about the weather and a few random dad jokes and you've got yourself a nice new episode of Conversate. As always, we hope you enjoy it! 

In this week's episode, Aaron and Kevin discuss what the Bible tells us about the rise of the Kingdom of Israel. It wasn't necessarily a good idea for the people to demand a king. They were expressly warned against how it might not go so well. God relented and still gave them what they wanted. And, it certainly didn't go perfectly. Yet, God still worked through an imperfect system and imperfect people. This conversation was recorded on November 6th, 2024 after the national elections in the United States. There are certainly connections to how we respond to our elected officials as well in light of what we learn from the Biblical account of kings. As always, it's our goal that you'll hear something in this conversation and start another conversation with someone else. We hope you enjoy it! 

The stories of Moses' life are well told throughout movies, children's books, Sunday school lessons, etc. Many of the events that unfolded in his life play a pivotal role throughout the entirety of the Bible in the Old and New Testaments. One of the things that he was involved in, which is a huge part of the Scriptural story is the giving of the Law of God to the people. In this week's conversation, Aaron and Kevin discuss the role that the law plays in our lives. That leads into further discussion about different ideas about salvation, works, grace, and so on. This is an incredibly helpful conversation as we live in a world which seems to stress salvation by works, and not by grace. We hope you enjoy this conversation. 

In this week's episode, Aaron and Kevin are discussing God's call to Abram. How do you know if God has called out to you? What does his voice sound like? How do you know it's him and not someone/something else? In this conversation we'll give you some helpful ideas to think through and apply in your own life. As always, we hope you enjoy it! 

In this week's episode, Aaron and Kevin discuss the fall into sin and all of its horrible effects. I'm sure you've asked questions like, "Why does God allow so much suffering?" Or, "Why would God allow Adam and Eve to even be tempted in the first place?" In this week's conversation, the guys discuss these questions and many others in order that we might find hope in Jesus and his victory over sin for us for all of eternity. We hope you enjoy it! 

In this week's episode, Aaron and Kevin have a conversation about what the Bible says regarding creation. In a modern society like ours, that is dominated by data and scientific proofs, is there any possibility of us still believing that God is the Creator? Does it even matter what we believe about how everything came to be? In this conversation, the guys discuss the reality that we all have a story that we believe. We have a story we believe about where we came from, why we're here, what's the purpose of living. Even if that story is, "I don't know the answers to these questions and I'm searching for them," then that is the story you believe. The story that you believe is the story that shapes your understanding of your place in this world. So, do you believe that God is the Creator? Because, believing this, or not believing it, will have drastically different outcomes in your experience of life even today. We hope you enjoy this conversation. 

In this conversation Aaron and Kevin have a conversation about finding peace in politics. When this podcast was recorded, it was a month away from the 2024 presidential election. In a political season that seems to be more polarized and divided than anything we've experienced, it may seem that this idea is foolish. But it's not. We have a theology that reminds us that God is sovereign over all things. In particular, within Lutheran theology, we hold to a doctrine called the Two Kingdoms. In this, we are reminded that the left hand kingdom is the kingdom of the world (politics, government, business, etc) and God is in charge of it. The left hand kingdom is God's way of ordering societies. The right hand kingdom is the kingdom of the church where forgiveness and grace are proclaimed and the Word of God is prominent. And, God is in charge of this as well. As citizens of the world, we live and operate in both kingdoms. But, how do we navigate them. What role does our faith play in our politics? And, vice versa? That's what we're talking about in this conversation today. As always, we hope you enjoy it! 

In this week's episode Aaron and Kevin have a conversation about how to find peace in our relationships. Even in the best relationships, there are strains and struggles that we need to learn to communicate and ultimately forgive. But then, there are other relationships that are totally broken. Is there a path towards peace for broken relationships? Yes. The way of Jesus. The way of forgiveness. In this conversation, the guys talk very practically about the freedom that forgiveness is and really challenge the listeners to put into practice the gift that Jesus has given us. We hope you enjoy it!

Is life hectic? Do you feel like you're running around with too much to do? When people ask you: "How are you?" Do you often respond: "Busy."?In the world today, we are faced with all sorts of schedule challenges that busy up our lives. But, time management has always been a challenge. We see the same tendency of the ancient people of Israel to struggle with finding "rest" within their schedules.This is why God invented the "Sabbath." What is the Sabbath? In this conversation, Pastor Kevin and Marcus Huff discuss the origin, meaning, and value of the Sabbath. And they invite the listener to consider engaging in it - in order to find "peace in schedules."We hope you enjoy it!

Peace and finances. Those are two words that we don't often speak in the same sentence. For most of us, peace is something nice, easy, quiet, relaxing. Finances are stressful, frustrating, anxiety-inducing. Did you know that the Bible speaks about money often? Even Jesus, speaks about money almost more than anything else. It's because money is part of almost every single decision we make. So, is money a peaceful thing in our lives? In this conversation, the guys discuss the ways the hardships they've had with money and the way towards peace in their own lives. We hope you enjoy it!

In this week's episode, Aaron and Kevin are discussing 1 John chapter 5 where John says that God's laws are not burdensome. That is hard for us to imagine. We always imagine that laws will be a burden on us. So, what does it meant that God's laws are not burdensome? It means that we will actually love God's laws and want to do them because we recognize that they're good for us and good for the world. But, this change of heart will not come of our own doing, it will only come through the transformation by the Holy Spirit. As always, it's our goal that you'll hear something in this conversation and start another conversation with someone else. We hope you enjoy it! 

1 John 4:8 tells us, "God IS love." It is in his nature. It is in his character. He just IS love. What does this say then about how we ought to love one another? It begins with the fact that we are God's "beloved." We are, literally, his loved ones. Because he first loved us, we have to love one another. Love is not a suggestion. Love is not an option. If you consider yourself to be someone who loves God, than you must love one another. We hope that you'll take something you hear in this conversation and start another conversation with someone else. We hope you enjoy it! 

In this week's episode, the guys discuss what it means to be children of God. 1 John 3:1 says, "See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are."This is a bold declarative statement. How are we children of God? Because God says so. God calls. God claims. God recreates us as His very own children. You are! We hope you hear something in this conversation that motivates you to go and start another spiritual conversation with someone else. We hope you enjoy it!

In this week's episode, Aaron and Kevin are discussing the Christian's place in the world. Every human knows that this world is broken and that our human existence is not perfect. But, what do we do about it? How do we interact with the world around us. As Christians, we believe that God has rescued us from the world in which we live. But, this is still the world in which we live. This conversation is based in a sermon that was preached on 1 John 2:15-17. It's our goal that you'll hear something in this conversation and start another conversation with someone else. We hope you enjoy it! 

We're back! It's been a 3 month hiatus for the podcast while Pastor Aaron was away on Sabbatical, but we're ready to rock in this new episode. We'll discuss a little bit about the Sabbatical, but primarily we'll talk about God's love for us. We started a new sermon series called What is Love based on the epistle of 1 John. We hope that you'll hear something in this conversation that will inspire you to start another spiritual conversation with someone else. As always, we hope you enjoy it! 

During Pastor Aaron's 3 month sabbatical, the Conversate podcast is taking a little rest as well. Listen to the guys explain the rationale behind this decision. Thank you all for being loyal listeners and starting faith-filled conversations with those in your lives as well! 

In this week's episode, Aaron and Kevin talk about the final verb in Mark 1:17, "Become." Jesus said, "Follow me and I will make you become fishers of men." This conversation revolves what it looks like to become the kind of people that God wants us to be and how that becoming takes place. As always, our goal is that you'll hear something in this podcast and start another spiritual conversation with someone else. We hope you enjoy it! 

In this week's episode, Aaron and Kevin talk about the reality that God is our Maker. Too often, too many people operate as though they are their own source of authority. We like to think that we are autonomous individuals. But, there is a simple reality - we have been made, by a maker, who has also made a way for us!In an age where many people are wrestling to find their identity and purpose and make a way for themselves in this world, our hope is this conversation shines light on the reality that you're better off having a maker. This is not oppressive or limiting, but it is true freedom. As always, it's our goal that you'll take something you hear in this conversation and start another conversation with someone else about it. We hope you enjoy it! 

In this episode, Aaron and Kevin talk about the words of Jesus to the first disciples, "Follow me." How do you think about this concept of following Jesus? Have you ever really considered what Jesus is calling you to do? Aaron and Kevin talk about what it practically means to follow Jesus. This involves following and imitating other people, and it also means living in such a way that in us and through us people will get to see and hear Jesus and imitate him.

In this week's episode, Aaron and Kevin talk about Palm Sunday, Holy Week, and how Jesus is our coming King. He is our ruler and Lord and his kingdom has no end. So, in this conversation the guys talk about what it looks like to have Jesus as our Lord and what it is that we need salvation from. On Palm Sunday, the crowds shouted, "Hosanna, Hosanna" which means "save us now." So, do we cry, "Hosanna?" If so, from what do we need saving? And, to whom do we even cry Hosanna? As always, it's our goal that you'll take something you hear in this conversation and start another conversation with somebody else. We hope you enjoy it! 

Aaron and Kevin discuss Mark chapter 12 where Jesus is in the temple in Jerusalem in the last week of his life. He's being challenged by many opponents regarding his teaching. But, he doesn't back down. In this conversation we'll talk about the courage and strength of Jesus and what it looks like for us to live with courage having our identity rooted in Jesus. It's our goal that you'll hear something in this conversation and go start another conversation with someone else about something you heard. As always, we hope you enjoy it! 

Mark's Gospel is unique (as they all are!). Particularly, the pace of Mark's Gospel is "harried." Immediately this. Suddenly that. It's action-packed and brimming with excitement.All throughout - the narrative continues to drive forward by returning to "the way" of Jesus. The roads that He traveled. The path He is headed down. The way of His salvation.In this week's conversation, Pastor Kevin sits down with new member - Trish Brewer - as they discuss "The Way" in Mark. Trish teaches philosophy at Michigan Tech and has a background in Early Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. She has a wealth of knowledge and dips into it during our conversation on Mark this week.Learn more about these new additions (Trish and family) to our faith family here at SSPP and consider "The Way" that Jesus has called us together to follow Him, as you listen to this week's episode.We hope you enjoy it!

In this week's conversation, Aaron and Kevin discuss the importance of understanding Biblical places, dates, and names that we encounter when reading the Scriptures. We often skip over these important historical pieces and jump right to "what does this Bible passage mean for my life" instead of first reading the Bible in the context to which it was written. With that in mind, this conversation talks about some important historical facts in the Gospel of Mark, particularly who Herod is as we read in Mark 6. We hope you enjoy it! 

There are many ways to respond to Jesus. But, there's one way that's not possible: apathy. When it comes down to it, you either have to receive Jesus for who he is, or you have to deny him. There's no middle ground with Jesus. We see this reality in the Gospel of Mark as different people respond to Jesus in different ways. In this week's conversation, Aaron and Kevin discuss this reality, but they also take on issues like spiritual warfare, demonic possession, and the role that discipleship plays in combating those things. As always, we hope you enjoy it!

In this week's episode, Aaron and Kevin sit down to discuss Mark chapter 1. For the next number of episodes, we'll be walking through the Gospel according to Mark. In this episode, the guys discuss some of the unique ways that Mark writes his Gospel. They all discuss demon-possession and our modern understanding of it.