Podcast appearances and mentions of David Kim

Shintaro Higashi returns from a seminar tour through North and South Dakota and shares highlights from his teaching experience with co-host David Kim. They dive deep into the nuances of judo grip fighting, seminar structure, and how to make training safer and more productive for all levels. This episode is packed with practical teaching philosophy, funny travel anecdotes, and martial arts insight.Join my Patreon for:✅ 1-on-1 video call coaching✅ Exclusive technique breakdowns✅ Direct Q&A access✅ Behind-the-scenes training footage

In this episode of the Shintaro Higashi Show, Shintaro and David Kim break down the unique judo techniques of Natsumi Tsunoda, a gold medalist at the Paris Olympics. The discussion highlights Tsunoda's mastery of the straight back tomoe nage, her innovative use of the secondary leg, and how she seamlessly blends tachiwaza and newaza.Join my Patreon for:✅ 1-on-1 video call coaching✅ Exclusive technique breakdowns✅ Direct Q&A access✅ Behind-the-scenes training footage

A breakout from the 2025 Mockingbird Conference in NYC: Relief. May 2, 2025. Property of Mockingbird Ministries, all rights reserved (www.mbird.com).

In this episode of the Shintaro Higashi Show, Shintaro and guest David Kim discuss the revival of the Judo program at the New York Athletic Club (NYAC), the challenges of maintaining high-level training, and the collaboration between Shintaro, Colton Brown, and other top athletes to restore the program's energy and excellence.The NYAC is a historic private club in NYC, known for supporting top-level athletes across various Olympic sports. The Judo program, which once thrived, has seen a decline in participation and local involvement, prompting efforts to revitalize it.Join my Patreon for:✅ 1-on-1 video call coaching✅ Exclusive technique breakdowns✅ Direct Q&A access✅ Behind-the-scenes training footage

David Kim is coming onboard to help with the podcast! He discusses balancing family life with martial arts training, his jiu-jitsu journey as a middle-aged practitioner, and his "midjitsu" persona focused on helping older grapplers. David shares insights on marriage, training philosophy, and how he manages to train consistently while raising four children. David will be a recurring special guest on the show.Join my Patreon for:✅ 1-on-1 video call coaching✅ Exclusive technique breakdowns✅ Direct Q&A access✅ Behind-the-scenes training footage

David Kim (DK) is a trusted advisor as an AI, GRC, cybersecurity, and PCI DSS consultant and currently sits on Technical Advisory Boards, Governance Boards. He has centered his entire career around IT topics such as telecommunications, data networking, VoIP, unified communications, network management, information systems security, regulatory compliance, privacy, and auditing IT infrastructures for compliance. Learn how and why we met 24 years ago and thoughts around privacy and risk in the SMB space.

April 2025 Prophecy Update | ပိတ်သားပေါ်က သခင့်ရုပ်တော်___________________________________________သခင်ယေရှုရဲ့အလောင်းတော်ကို ပတ်ခဲ့တဲ့ပိတ်သားကို တူရင်မြို့မှ ပိတ်သားစလို့ ခေါ်ပါတယ်။ ဒီပိတ်သားစက ရက်ရက်စက်စက်နှိပ်စက်ပြီး အသတ်ခံခဲ့ရတဲ့ လူတဦးရဲ့သွေးတွေနဲ့အတူ ရုပ်ပုံတခုပေါ်နေပါတယ်။ နောက်ဆုံးတွေ့ရှိချက်များအရ ဒါဟာ သခင်ယေရှုရဲ့ရုပ်တော်ဖြစ်တယ်လို့ ဆိုပါတယ်။ ဒီအကြောင်းအပြည့်အစုံကို ဆရာ David Kim နှင့် ဆရာမ Mercy Kim တို့က ပြောပြထားပါတယ်။ ⛪ To support our Ministries:PAYPAL - https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=Q7AK6KQERABXA

ရှင်ပြန်ထမြောက်ရာ တနင်္ဂနွေနေ့မှာတော့ သေခြင်းကို အောင်တဲ့နေ့နှုတ်ကပတ်တော် ခေါင်းစဥ်နဲ့ ဆရာ David Kim မှ မိသားစုများကို ဝေငှခွန်အားပေးသွားမှာဖြစ်ပါတယ်။⛪ To support our Ministries:PAYPAL - https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=Q7AK6KQERABXA

ကောင်းသော သောကြာနေ့ အထူးနှုတ်ကပတ်တော်၀ေငှခြင်းကို Rev David Kim ထံမှ ကြားနာရမှာဖြစ်ပါတယ်။⛪ To support our Ministries:PAYPAL - https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=Q7AK6KQERABXA

CT colonography (CTC) is now at an inflection point following recent regulatory updates. In this AJR Conversation, Gastrointestinal Imaging Section Editor Federica Vernuccio, MD, PhD, speaks with David Kim, MD, about his team's recently published article on the use of CTC for colorectal cancer prevention and detection.

ပသခါအစာရှောင်ခြင်း ၅ ရက်မြောက်နေ့မှာတော့ နောက်ဆုံးမှာကြားချက် နှုတ်ကပတ်တော်ခေါင်းစဥ်ဖြင့် Rev David Kim မှမိသားစုများကိုဟောပြောခွန်အားပေး၀ေငှသွားမှာဖြစ်ပါတယ်။⛪ To support our Ministries:PAYPAL - https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=Q7AK6KQERABXA

အကြီးဆုံးတာဝန် နှုတ်ကပတ်တော်ခေါင်းစဥ်ဖြင့် ဆရာ David Kim မှပသခါအစာရှောင်ခြင်း တတိယနေ့မှာ မိသားစုများကိုဟောပြောခွန်အားပေး၀ေငှသွားမှာဖြစ်ပါတယ်။⛪ To support our Ministries:PAYPAL - https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=Q7AK6KQERABXA

သာ၍နက်ရာ သင်ခန်းစာ အပိုင်း (၈)မှာတော့ သာ၍နီးရာ နှုတ်ကပတ်တော်အားဖြင့် ဆရာ David Kim မှဟောကြားခွန်အားပေးသွားမှာဖြစ်ပါတယ်။ ⛪ To support our Ministries:PAYPAL - https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=Q7AK6KQERABXA

မြန်မာနိုင်ငံမှာ အခုရက်ပိုင်းအတွင်းကြုံတွေ့ခဲ့ရတဲ့ ငလျင်နဲ့ပတ်သက်ပြီး ဘုရားရဲ့စီရင်ခြင်းလား၊ လူတွေရဲ့အပြစ်လား စသဖြင့် ယုံကြည်သူတွေအကြားမှာ မရှင်းလင်းတဲ့အရာတွေရှိနေပါတယ်။ဒီလို အဖြစ်ဆိုးမျိုးကို သခင်ယေရှုက ဘာပြောထားသလဲ? ဆရာ David Kim နဲ့အတူ လေ့လာသွားကြရအောင်။⛪ To support our Ministries:PAYPAL - https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=Q7AK6KQERABXA

Prophecy Update | March 2025 | Rev David Kim⛪ To support our Ministries:PAYPAL - https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=Q7AK6KQERABXA

Board-certified dermatologist Dr. David Kim shares a few ways to refresh your skincare routine for spring. Also, the inspiring story behind a unique library in Chicago that is helping people learn new skills and build community. Plus, Debra Messing joins to discuss her new film with Robert De Niro, ‘Alto Knights.'

ပုရနေ့အထူးထုတ်လွှင့်ချက်အနေနဲ့ သာ၍နက်ရာ သင်ခန်းစာ အပိုင်း (၅)မှာတော့ အရှုံးမှ အနိုင် နှုတ်ကပတ်တော်အားဖြင့် ဆရာ David Kim မှဟောကြားခွန်အားပေးသွားမှာဖြစ်ပါတယ်။ ⛪ To support our Ministries:PAYPAL - https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=Q7AK6KQERABXA

Deeper Series | Ep04 - ကုန်းမှ ရေသို့ | Rev David Kim________________________________________သာ၍နက်ရာ သင်ခန်းစာ အပိုင်း (၄) ကုန်းမှ ရေသို့ နှုတ်ကပတ်တော်ကို ဆရာ David Kim မှဟောကြားထားပါတယ်။ ⛪ To support our Ministries:PAYPAL - https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=Q7AK6KQERABXA

သာ၍နက်ရာ သင်ခန်းစာ အပိုင်း (၃) မှာတော့ တစ်ပူပေါ် နှစ်ပူဆင့် နှုတ်ကပတ်တော်ခေါင်းစဥ်နှင့် ဆရာ David Kim က ဟောကြားဝေငှသွားမှာဖြစ်ပါတယ်။ ⛪ To support our Ministries:PAYPAL - https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=Q7AK6KQERABXA

ဂျူးတွေရဲ့ တတိယဗိမာန်တော် တည်ဆောက်ရေးမှာ အဓိကလိုအပ်တာက အနီရောင်နွားမပျိုဖြစ်ပါတယ်။လွန်ခဲ့တဲ့ ၂ နှစ်က အမေရိကန်နိုင်ငံက လယ်သမားတစ်ယောက်က အနီရောင်နွား ၅ ကောင်ကို အစ္စရေးကို ပေးပို့ခဲ့ပါတယ်။ အခု ဘယ်အခြေအနေမှာရှိနေပြီလဲ? ဆရာ Daivd Kim နှင့်အတူ လေ့လာသွားကြရအောင်။ ⛪ To support our Ministries:PAYPAL - https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=Q7AK6KQERABXA

Deeper Series | Ep02 - အတွင်းကို ကြည့်ပါ | Rev David Kim________________________________________သာ၍နက်ရာသင်ခန်းစာ အသစ် အပိုင်း (၂) မှာတော့ အတွင်းကိုကြည့်ပါ ဆိုတဲ့နှုတ်ကပတ်တာ်ခေါင်းစဥ်နှင့် ဆရာ David Kim က ဟောကြားဝေငှသွားမှာဖြစ်ပါတယ်။ ⛪ To support our Ministries:PAYPAL - https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=Q7AK6KQERABXA

Deeper Series | Ep01 - နက်နက်တူးပါ | Rev David Kim________________________________________၂၀၂၅ရဲ့ဆောင်ပုဒ် သာ၍နက်ရာ ဆိုတဲ့ဆောင်ပုဒ်အတိုင်း ဘုရားထဲမှာ နက်ရှိုင်းစွာ သွားဖို့အတွက် ဘာတွေလုပ်ဆောင်ရမလဲဆိုတာကို သာ၍နက်ရာသင်ခန်းစာ အသစ် အပိုင်း (၁) နက်နက်တူးပါ နှုတ်ကပတ်တာ်မှာ ဆရာ David Kim က ဟောကြားဝေငှထားပါတယ်။ ⛪ To support our Ministries:PAYPAL - https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=Q7AK6KQERABXA

အစ္စရေးအတွက်ထရမ့်ရဲ့အမိန့် ၅ ခု | Prophecy Update (January 2025) | Rev David Kim__________________________________________သမ္မတထရမ့်ဟာ သူ့ရဲ့ပထမရက်ရာထူးရတဲ့နေမှာပဲ သမ္မတအမိန့်ညွှန်ကြားချက်များစွာကို ချမှတ်ခဲ့ပါတယ်။အဲဒီအထဲက အစ္စရေးနှင့်သက်ဆိုင်တဲ့ အမိန့် ၅ ခု အကြောင်းအရာများကို ဆရာ David Kim က ပြောပြသွားမှာဖြစ်ပါတယ်။ ⛪ To support our Ministries:PAYPAL - https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=Q7AK6KQERABXA

၄၇ ယောက်မြောက်သမ္မတအဖြစ် ကျမ်းသစ္စာကျိန်ဆိုပြီးချိန် ပထမဆုံးမိန့်ခွန်းမှာ ပြောသွားတဲ့ ဒေါ်နယ်ထရမ့်ရဲ့ မိန်းခွန်းမှာပါတဲ့ အရေးကြီးတဲ့အရာတချို့ကို ဆရာ David Kim က ပြောပြထားပါတယ်။ ⛪ To support our Ministries: PAYPAL - https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=Q7AK6KQERABXA

သာဓုသစ္စာရှိသော ငယ်သားကောင်း | Rev David Kim လူတိုင်းကို ဘုရားသခင်က အစွမ်းအစအသီးသီးပေးထားပါတယ်။ ပိုများတဲ့သူရှိသလို သူတစ်ပါးလောက်မများတဲ့သူလည်းရှိပါတယ်။ ဒါပေမဲ့ မပေးထားတဲ့သူတော့ မရှိပါဘူး။ တစ်နေ့မှာ သခင်ထံကနေ စကားနှစ်ခွန်းထဲက တစ်ခွန်းကို သေချာပေါက်ကြားရဖို့ရှိပါတယ်။ (၁) သာဓုသစ္စာရှိသောငယ်သား (၂) ဆိုးညစ်ပျင်းရိသောငယ်သား ဘယ်တစ်ခုကိုသင်ကြားရဖို့ မျှော်လင့်သလဲ? ဆရာ David Kim ကပြောပြထားပါတယ်။ ⛪ To support our Ministries: PAYPAL - https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=Q7AK6KQERABXA

နေ့ရက်များကို ရေတွက်ပါ | Rev David Kim လူ့ဘဝဆိုတာ အခိုးအငွေ့ပမာ နေမြင်ပေမဲ့ ညမှာပျောက်သွားနိုင်ပါတယ်။ သင့်ရဲ့အသက်ရှင်နေတဲ့ နေရက်တွေကို တန်ဖိုးထားပြီး ရေတွက်တတ်ဖို့လိုအပ်ပါတယ်။ ဆာလံ ၉၀ မှာ မောရှေက နေ့ရက်တို့ကို မှန်ကန်စွာရေတွက်နိုင်ရန် သွန်သင်တော်မူပါလို့ ဘုရားထံဆုတောင်းပါတယ်။ ဒီအကြောင်းကို ဆရာ David Kim နဲ့အတူ လေ့လာသွားကြရအောင်။ ⛪ To support our Ministries: PAYPAL - https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=Q7AK6KQERABXA

ဆယ်ဖို့တစ်ဖို့ရဲ့ ကောင်းချီး | Rev David Kim ဆယ်ဖို့တစ်ဖို့ပေးလှူပူဇော်ခြင်းကနေ ရရှိလာမယ့် ကောင်းချီးတွေက ဘာတွေဖြစ်မလဲ? ဆရာ David Kim နဲ့အတူလေ့လာသွားကြရအောင်။ ⛪ To support our Ministries: PAYPAL - https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=Q7AK6KQERABXA

One of my very favorite annual traditions is conducting this interview with my friend David Kim, aka Scuttleblurb (

ဆယ်ဖို့တစ်ဖို့ပေးတဲ့အကြောင်းရင်း | Rev David Kim ______________________ ဆယ်ဖို့တစ်ဖို့ကို ဘာကြောင့်ပေးကြတာလဲ? ဒါက ဓမ္မဟောင်းရဲ့ လုပ်ဆောင်ချက်မဟုတ်ဘူးလား? ကျေးဇူးတော်ကာလမှာ လုပ်ဆောင်ဖို့ လိုသေးလား? ဆယ်ဖို့တစ်ဖို့ပေးတဲ့ အဓိကအကြောင်းရင်းကို ဆရာ David Kim က ရှင်းပြထားပါတယ်။ ⛪ To support our Ministries: PAYPAL - https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=Q7AK6KQERABXA

အဦးသီးကောင်းချီး | Rev David Kim ________________________ ဘုရားသခင်ကို ဘဝမှာ နံပါတ်တစ်ထားလိုက်ပါ။ ကျန်တဲ့အရာတွေ သူနေရာနှင့်သူ နေရာတကျဖြစ်သွားပါလိမ့်မယ်။ ဘုရားကို နံပါတ်တစ်ဘယ်လိုထားကြမလဲ? အဦးသီးဆိုတာ ဘာလဲ စတဲ့ အကြောင်းအရာတွေကို ဆရာ David Kim က ရှင်းပြထားပါတယ်။ ⛪ To support our Ministries: PAYPAL - https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=Q7AK6KQERABXA

အစာရှောင်ခြင်းဆိုတာ . . . | Rev David Kim ဘုရားနှစ်သက်တဲ့အစာရှောင်ခြင်းဖြစ်မဖြစ် ဘယ်လိုသိနိုင်မလဲ? ဆရာ David Kim က ရှင်းပြထားပါတယ်။ ⛪ To support our Ministries: PAYPAL - https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=Q7AK6KQERABXA

In this episode of the podcast, we catch up with leaders of the Darden Military Association, Professional Formats, Shane Bowling, Scott Timmester and David Kim. Shane, Scott, and David reflect upon their MBA journeys, the impact of their time at Darden, their advice for prospective students and more. The Darden Military Association, Professional Formats serves the Professional Degree community as an affinity group by leveraging former and current military experiences to enhance career opportunities and foster camaraderie within the entire Darden Community. For more insights, tips, and stories about the Darden experience, be sure to check out the Discover Darden Admissions blog and follow us on Instagram @dardenmba.

EP02 - The Son of Praise (ချီးမွမ်းခြင်း၏သား) |Thanksgiving Series| Rev. David Kim ________________________ ချီးမွမ်းခြင်းမှာ အဖိုးအခေပးဖို့ လိုအပ်ပါတယ်။ ဒါကြောင့်လည်း ချီးမွမ်းခြင်းယဇ်လို့ သမ္မာကျမ်းစာမှာ ပြောထားပါတယ်။ နာကျင်မှုတွေကြားထဲကနေ ဘုရားသခင်ကို ချီးမွမ်းနေလိုက်ပါ။ နာကျင်မှုတွေကနေ သခင့်ရဲ့ ကြင်နာခြင်း ရောက်လာပါလိမ့်မယ်။ ချီးမွမ်းခြင်း၏သား နှုတ်ကပတ်တော်ကို ဆရာ David Kim က ဝေငှထားပါတယ်။ ⛪ To support our Ministries: PAYPAL - https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=Q7AK6KQERABXA

Links:Andy GeorgeInstagram | FacebookCrossroads Fellowship | YouTube | Discipleship ResourcesThe University of Valley Forge

"The King of Peace" (Luke 19:28-40) - Pastor David Kim by NCA EM

Join us in a conversation with two contributors to our published anthology Faithful AI: Stories of Hope from 2045. Peter Rothe, writer of "Project Grace", and David Kim discuss about the intersection of AI and vocation. Views and opinions expressed by podcast guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the view of AI and Faith or any of its leadership. Production: Elias Kruger, Pablo Salmonez and Penny Yuen Speakers: Peter Rothe and David Kim Editing: Isabelle Braconnot Music from #UppbeatLicense code: 1ZHLF7FMCNHU39

Antichrist ရောက်နေပြီလား? | Rev David Kim ___________________________________ နောက်ဆုံးသောကာလ သမ္မာကျမ်းစာပြည့်စုံလာခြင်းများကို Rev David Kim မှ ဟောကြား၀ေငှသွားမှာဖြစ်ပါတယ်။ ⛪ To support our Ministries: PAYPAL - https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=Q7AK6KQERABXA

Every Wednesday until Election Day, Vote Common Good's Political Director, Robb Ryerse, will be sitting down with some of the  extraordinary, ordinary Americans running for office.    Today's guest is David Kim who is running for U.S. House of Representatives in California's 34th District. https://davidkimforca.com/   To see if there's a Common Good Candidate in your area, check out:   www.candidatesforcommongood.com   www.votecommongood.com

Being a part of a group, or even a church, doesn't mean you feel like you “belong.” In this episode, David Kim of Made to Belong helps us explore what it takes to build a community of belonging. You will learn about five practices he has identified for cultivating community in a disconnected world both inside and outside of our inherited forms of church.

Did you know that nearly 50% of young women in South Korea undergo double eyelid surgery in their 20s? In this eye-opening episode of the Korean Pizza Club (KPC), we dig into why South Korea has become the plastic surgery capital of the world. With over a million procedures performed annually, what compels so many to alter their appearance? Join host David Kim and the crew as they explore the cultural pressures, K-pop influence, and social dynamics that push both women and men to chase perfection. How far would you go to fit into a society that worships beauty? Tune in and find out. Get early access, exclusive bonus podcasts, K-pop reactions on Patreon - https://patreon.com/KoreanPizzaClub Unique & Aesthetic Korean products shipped globally - https://biroso.net/?utm_source=YOUTUBE&utm_medium=cpc&utm_id=Korea+Pizza+Club __

There's so many acronyms in this episode, it might make your head spin. We talk about IRC, IBC, IEBC, ADA, FHA and more. John Anderson and I don't do this to punish you, or make you feel confused. But, it's critical to understanding the world of how buildings actually get built. John is usually good for at least a couple of one-liners, and this one is my favorite in this episode:Real estate development is a black box full of money and villains.You'll learn in this episode why requiring sprinklers in small and middle-scale building isn't necessary, and how it makes housing less affordable. We talk about single-stair reform, and understanding how the Fair Housing Act is a very different animal than the Americans with Disabilities Act.For more from John, check out his blog.Find more content on The Messy City on Kevin's Substack page.Music notes: all songs by low standards, ca. 2010. Videos here. If you'd like a CD for low standards, message me and you can have one for only $5.Intro: “Why Be Friends”Outro: “Fairweather Friend”Transcript of Episode:Kevin K (00:01.81)Welcome back to the Messy City podcast. This is Kevin Klinkenberg. You know, we spent a lot of time in the world of whatever you want to call it, urbanism, planning, design, urban design, talking about zoning reform, especially for what we kind of call missing middle housing and the need to reform zoning codes to enable the production of sort of smaller scale.housing. And so I've had a number of episodes on that. We've talked about it. We'll continue to talk about it. But one thing we really haven't talked much about at all, and that's often overlooked, is the need for reform to building codes and building code and development approval processes generally with local governments. So my friend John Anderson started an email thread the other day.that, kind of dug into this issue and like a lot of John's emails, it was long and thorough and a little bit grumpy. and so I thought John and I should just, talk about it, because there's a lot of really great stuff here that I'm not sure that people think about, terribly much, especially if you're one of those people who wants to do small scale, development.whether new construction or rehab, especially for new construction, there's just a lot of other things to think about that you're going to have to consider and other things potentially to work on with your local government to try to reform. So that's a very long introduction to say, welcome John, how you doing?R. John Anderson (01:44.944)Good, I'm good. I'm glad that emails are really thin medium, so it's hard to get grumpiness to come across at the right amplitude.Kevin K (01:55.902)always comes across, you know, it's okay. But I've known you long enough to be able to even decipher it when it's kind of a little more subtle.R. John Anderson (02:06.724)Well, I'll tell you one thing that's.Kevin K (02:08.766)And then there are times that you and Gary Brewer go at it and it's not subtle at all.R. John Anderson (02:13.468)hi. I, it feels like, having a conversation with someone in Quebec where I just don't, our experience is so different. The world's way operator so far apart. It's it. I feel like we're too, you know, Neanderthal tribes meeting in the dark searching for a common word for fire without success. You know, so.Kevin K (02:37.63)Yeah.No doubt. No doubt.R. John Anderson (02:41.904)No, Fog thinks small house 500 square feet. No, Og thinks small house 3000 square feet.Kevin K (02:47.646)Exactly. $2 million is a reasonable budget for any new house, Yeah.R. John Anderson (02:52.046)Right. And you ought to have it specially designed by an architect because that's the world that he's operating in.Kevin K (02:58.812)That's okay. We love, we love Gary too. He's a brilliant designer. but, he long operated in a different stratosphere in terms of architecture. So John, let's, let's get into this a little bit. I think there's, do you want to kind of lead off a little bit, just talking about building code reform generally before we get into some of theR. John Anderson (03:01.818)Yeah.R. John Anderson (03:17.71)Well, yeah, let's talk about why you'd want to reform the building code. We've seen a fair amount of uptake in zoning code reform where folks are, think, under the banner of making middle scale, missing middle housing legal again.you see that find its way into comprehensive plans and then policy documents. And then from there, it goes through the gruesome process of actually changing the zoning. Often it takes two mentions in the comprehensive plan or three to get that to happen. It's in the implementation paragraph in the back. We should change the zoning to make this legal. And the, and youTo the credit of people that are trying to move a comprehensive plan forward, they really are trying to engage the big ideas and get enough consensus and buy -in to be able to pursue them. And then that can be a couple hundred thousand dollars down the road and you've exhausted all your staff and you have no budget left to actually change the zoning. So which is why it takes two or three cycles of the comp plan.But when it finally comes around to it, then you get zoning that allows a duplex, an ADU, a fourplex. And then the fourplexes don't get built. And that's because when you move, in most places, when you move past two units, a duplex, into three units in a building, you move from the International Residential Code to the International Building Code or the Commercial Code. So.And when that happens, you have fire sprinklers. And in order to have fire sprinklers, you need to make a connection at the water main. You have to protect the water main from stale water in your sprinkler system from washing back, backflow preventer. You need a sprinkler riser and a pressure reducing valve and a flow alarm. And like this red trombone that lives in a little closet that gets inspected by the building is the fire inspector before.R. John Anderson (05:29.36)you run horizontally your pipes. And because you're tapping the water menu, that's a serious piece of plumbing work, but it also typically requires a tap fee. in Seattle, that was $16 ,000. And in Chattanooga, it was $18 ,000 if you wanted to build a fourplex.Kevin K (05:54.204)That's just the fee. That's just to check you right to the municipality. Right.R. John Anderson (05:56.664)Yeah, there's no tap. There's no water coming your way. There's just the promise of water now that you've paid the fee for the privilege. And it's at the discretion, typically, the fire official for an entirely residential building. If you're going to build a residential sprinkler system, the geek term for that is NFPA 13R, National Fire Protection Association, 13R. That means you can use PECs or PVC plastic pipe onceonce you're inside the building and you've got it all set up. But for a 13 -hour system, for a residential system, it's the fire official has some discretion about whether or not they want a separate dedicated service, or you should be able to use the domestic service with a backflow preventer or check valve to keep the stagnant water and the fire sprinklers from contaminating your domestic water. But typically fire officials areare creatures of habit and that habit is usually enforcing the strictest standard possible and not, they're not given to, making concessions. would make a builder's life easier. So it's good. It's got, you're deviating from the system, youKevin K (07:08.68)Plus you're, yeah, and you are practicing the dark arts of real estate development, so you probably are serving to endanger the lives of whoever you're building for,R. John Anderson (07:21.434)Well, that's actually how we make our money. It's by endangering other people. The more of our customers we can put at risk, the better for us. And I think, know, in their defense, our culture says that real estate development and construction is a black box full of money and villains, and it's unknowable how much money is going to be made. So why would you complain about saving children from a fire?Kevin K (07:30.558)It'sR. John Anderson (07:49.552)because there's just a huge amount of money you're going to make. it's a technical problem wrapped in myth and caricature.Kevin K (07:59.518)So if I just take a step back and think big picture again here, so especially maybe for a lay person, you know, a lot of people, I remember this, a lot of people refer to these codes as like fire codes. That's kind of like the vernacular for people who are not architects or in the professions, but they're actually technically called building codes. When I was a young architect, there were multiple different building codes. There was a uniform building code and there was a Southern building code.BOKA code, and then they eventually all coalesced into what we call the International Building Code. And that is the standard now that most cities, local governments, and states adopt. There are different cycles and years at which you might adopt a But as you mentioned, there's also this companion piece called the International Residential Code, which for the most part governs just one family and two familybuildings.R. John Anderson (09:00.428)or attached one family, like a townhouse with a fire separation wall between them, no common hallways or anything. The entity that issues those codes is called the International Codes Council, it's a private nonprofit. And if you're a fire official or a local building official, this is probably your trade group. Also, if you manufactureKevin K (09:07.474)Right.R. John Anderson (09:29.872)fire sprinklers, you're probably pretty active there. Because what happens is there's a code cycle where, okay, we have a new edition of the International Residential Code coming out for 2028 or 24 or whatever. so in between the last time the model, what they call model codes were issued and now folks have made proposals. This last round for the 2024contains a lot of really good improvements on the codes for building decks, which were kind of a neglected area and there were a lot of deck failures and some smart folks got together and came up with some common sense solutions. So, and if you use those solutions, you don't actually have to have an engineer verify your deck construction. So the issue of the model code and then state by state, state legislaturesthey'll review it in committee. It'll come to a vote. They'll adopt the such and such year, the 2024 international residential code, international existing building code, international FAR code, international, you know, all of those codes, kind of all at once. And then depending on your state, you can, when the state adopts it, then it goes over to a codes commissiondoes rulemaking where they might make some adjustments that are appropriate to that state, local climate and economics. And then it becomes law. And then the process for it to happen at the local level, your county, municipality, town, some places it immediately becomes the one you're supposed to work with. Others you have a window toadopted in and if you don't do anything to amend it, it's the one you're going to work with. And other places, the only way you, so you could adopt it and make it less stringent in places like California or New York, and I believe Illinois, but in states that are what are called Dillon's rule state versus home rule states, Dillon's rule state, you can only adopt it to make it moreR. John Anderson (11:55.726)So in Tennessee, recently basically legalized fourplexes without fire sprinklers. And they did that at the state level after attempting to do it just for Shelby County and Memphis. They had to go back and try again. most of the code reform issues that are going on in most states have to be engaged at the state legislature.level. And a lot of states will eliminate the requirement for fire sprinklers in all new residential units.Kevin K (12:36.178)And so we should probably talk about like what's the whole big deal? Why wouldn't you want to have sprinklers required in buildings? And I want to give you a little background from my standpoint, but you go ahead and answer that first. What's the problem here?R. John Anderson (12:55.662)Well, I think the problem is one, first of cost, and then second of benefit. A two -story fourplex is actually safer than a single -family house of the same size because there are rated assemblies separating one unit from the rest. You have exiting that meets the requirements.all those places that are sleeping rooms have to have an egress window. So in addition to going out through the hallway, you could go out through the window or a firefighter could come in from the window and they're sized. So firefighter with a Scott pack can go through the window. the, and there isn't much in the way of actual evidence that fire sprinklers save lives or save structures. They're mostly there even in commercial buildings to increase the amount of exitingpeople have to get out of the building. They don't put out fires. They control smoke to a point. So, and it, you know, it makes sense if you're in a big quarter building or a hotel or, you know, a high rise, that getting out of the building in the case of a fire is a big serious issue. There's a big difference in scale between a high rise and a fourplex. So, and also the cost of, again, getting the system just to the building is significant.actually costs more than running the pipe inside the building. So that additional cost, say you're trying to build market rate apartments adjacent to a daycare and a place for food and drink. And you get actually a little bit higher rents because you have those community amenities. But if the rents are not high enough to support a more expensive kind of construction, thenyou probably build townhouses or something else. So the notion of the missing middle, there is a whole strata of easily built wood frame buildings that could be built, but for this fire sprinkler requirement that makes the cost too high to be able to recover either with a sales price or with rent. So basically, you can't get the rent, you probably shouldn't build the building. And it'sR. John Anderson (15:19.536)I mean $18 ,000 before you install the system. you're going to, that's the same system you would use for 16 units. Just 16 units would have more pipe. But the core system being kind of, that cost being spread over just three or four units, it kills it off. And it's typically six units or more become kind of the threshold.Kevin K (15:44.958)Well, and there's also an ongoing maintenance cost. mean, you can't just like put in a backflow preventer in a fire sprinkler system and just like let it sit for 50 years and never touch it.R. John Anderson (15:53.284)Yep. Yep. Well, and also the, you'll often hear fire officials talk about, you're going to, you know, okay, so it costs a little bit more on the front end, but people are going to save money on their homeowner's insurance, you know, or, or the building owner will save money on their insurance. And that's just not true because there's more property damage from leaking fire sprinklers than there are from fires. And the folks that issue insurance are smart enough to, you know, look at the actuarial tables and say, Nope, no break for fire sprinklers. So.Kevin K (16:22.59)And I think you can – even if you don't know a of this stuff, you might intuitively kind of know it because if you look around and see what is actually built in terms of new construction and that's why I think one reason when you look around you see an awful lot of – not just single family. I mean there's obviously a big single family market but when you go to duplexes or a townhouse rows where you might have four, six townhouses in a row or something likeYou're doing all of that with the international residential code and you're avoiding all of the complexities of the international building code or the requirements that come with having multiple units.R. John Anderson (17:04.996)Yeah. Also, if you were to do, there's a, there's a paragraph in the international residential code that says, okay, so you could have a duplex and up and down duplex, no fire sprinklers attached to that. know, so you had a ground floor, you know, one bedroom and upstairs, had a two or three bedroom, you know, three story building like you'd see in Savannah. you can't do that without fire sprinklers. Now, once you put two units in a, in a building and attachwith the firewall and everything, now you gotta do fire sprinklers. So, and that's a really, really practical, flexible building type that we can't do because every one of those individual buildings now needs a fire sprinkler system. And there's just, now you're looking at spreading the cost of that red trombone over two units, so.Kevin K (17:56.882)Yeah, it's interesting to me because I think about before the codes unified, there were very different philosophies between like the UBC and the BOCA code. broadly speaking, like one of them was, have very, it was more about building materials and assemblies. And thenwhat became the international code was really just basically about sprinklers. They say we're gonna be a lot more lenient on exiting and materials and other stuff as long as you put in sprinklers. And that's the one that wonR. John Anderson (18:35.93)Yeah, there are other ways to build without sprinklers, but typically the amount of brain damage required is tough. And a lot of times when you take those alternative routes, the building official or file official will say, no, no, why don't you just sprinkle it? And the evolution of codes over time, it wasn't until the, I think the mid sixties.It's been a long time since I had to take my journeyman's test as an electrician, but I think it was the mid 1960s. Before that time, you weren't required to ground outlets. So an old house with no ground, your answering machine, computer, television, anything is kind of at risk because there's no ground. So now grounding outlets became the thing. In about 1975, hardwired smoke detectors became required.And that actually saved a lot of lives. So that was a really effective change in the building code. And when it all got consolidated, the kind of code caulking that was used to bring it all together was, well, yeah, we have all these differences, but I think we can agree that if you sprinkle it, it's no problem. We got it covered. So the end over time.you see that's also the place where you would go to argue about whether how wide a street needs to be because that's incorporated into the fire code. And in recent additions, it went from being 20 foot clear to 26 foot clear, depending on which appendix you adopt. And this is the kind of thing where if some restrictions are a good idea in the name of safety, then more might be better. And I think that a lot of this comesWe have really specialized rules that are not integrated into making places worth caring about. They are specialized and the builder, the developer, the architect, or the people that are responsible to combine these ingredients in a capable way. And then we have them reviewed by a bunch of specialists who each have their own particular set of goals when they do the review.R. John Anderson (20:57.956)And if you've ever worked on a big serious building that had elevators and you had a local electrical inspector and a state elevator inspector, both operating under perfectly good codes, you could be hung up for six months while they fight. And you've built it the way you thought was, the way the architect got it signed off. But in the final turf competition, you couldreally jammed up because now you have specialists that are in conflict. And both of them feel like they have the authority to win.Kevin K (21:36.926)But of course, one of the great ironies of all this is the sort of buildings that we're often trying to reproduce or emulate or do new again have been around for 100, 100 plus years. The truth is most of those were built with a very similar construction method as how we build today. A lot of them were like balloon framed with like a, maybe they have a brick veneer or something like that. But a lot of them aren't like Clay Chapman's structural masonry buildings. They're actuallywood -framed. have no, right, I mean they have no fire rated assemblies at all between the units or between the hallways. Single stair often in many cases, no sprinklers, none of those features at all. And I'm not to say there haven't been fires and tragedies in any of those buildings, but by and large, if you look around, there's enormous wealth of them that have existed for over aR. John Anderson (22:09.124)with really, really thick brick paint that goes onR. John Anderson (22:36.922)Yeah, and I think that the.If the decision about how much risk are we willing to take on, say as a community, that decision is delegated to elected officials and elected officials have staff and they adopt these model codes and enforce them. And the, isn't a lot of defensible territory in the, wait a minute. The rules that you are playing by and you want me to play by are,What's the technical term? Kind of b******t. And I would like to make a case for that. And people get very defensive because I think also people have a really good internal gyroscope for the slippery slope of having to rethink all their assumptions. And they'll put their heels in the ground and it doesn't take much to say no.as opposed to, you you make some interesting points. I would really like to dig into the research on this. I appreciate you brought it to our attention. know, that more commonly is like, look, you make a pretty good case, but if we let you do it, we'd have to let everyone do it. And I know you're a very careful builder, but there are some schlocky guys out there that are gonna make terrible things happen. And we have to protect the public from them. So we're gonna throw you under the same bus we throw them under.So, you know, so a lot of this comes down to how do people perceive and measure risk? How do they communicate about it? And are there benefits out the other side of it that are worth taking that effort? So right now, they're, last count, there are like nine different states that are, that have legislation pending about going to single stair for six stories in a sprinkled building.R. John Anderson (24:36.56)And what that does, if you Google single stair buildings in Seattle, you'll see that the ability to do just one stair allows you to work on a smaller footprint. So it creates a lot of really good infill on 50 by 100 lots or 100 by 100 lots instead of a full half block podium building. The requirement for two stairs anda third of the diagonal distance of that rectangle separating the two stairs. So you got your room to make a choice which stair you're going to. That requirement creates a lot of, and then two rated stair stair assemblies. That creates a lot of corridor buildings to amortize all that common area and all those additional stairs. So they've been building single -story single stair buildings with sprinklers in Europe for a very long time. And it's kind ofit's the established standard for, you know, that portion of the Western world. And so about 12 years ago, there was an amendment made to the local building code in Seattle to allow for single stair buildings. And a lot of them have been built with good success and are perfectly safe. And now the legislature has, I believe, passed it and it's on to the codes commission for rulemaking.The fourplexes don't need fire sprinklers rule didn't make it out of committee. But the but you can see, you know, looking around the country, there's at least nine states that are looking for single stair. And I think that we'll see a similar Montana, you can build a fourplex with no sprinklers in Vermont. You can build a fourplex with no sprinklers. But the.These things end up often sponsored by the local home builders association. In North Carolina, home builders came in with that. It passed in the legislature. It also involves some reduction in the requirements for the energy code. So Republican supermajority got it passed. Democratic governor vetoed it. Supermajority overruled them. Now those areR. John Anderson (26:59.482)Those are supposed to be the rules except that it still has to go to the codes commission and the codes commission doesn't have enough members and members are appointed by the democratic governor. So it became a turf issue about if those guys are for it, I'm against it. Plus, you know, energy codes are for important purposes like climate change. So we can't give ground on that ideologically. So that's kind of the process. And I think that the kind of bottomsupport for these things at a state legislature, you know, one at a time. I think that probably has a better chance than a top -down approach where you make code proposals to the ICC and need to survive the committee review process to be able to have those proposals incorporated in the next round of theI've, I've resisted, I've resisted joining, but I figured out that membership costs this, you know, the same as buying all the hard copy code books, as the non -member. So.Kevin K (27:55.038)Have youKevin K (28:06.398)There you go. Have you seen any discussion at all from the ICC about changing the one and two family to go up to three and four family?R. John Anderson (28:17.808)Not at the ICC in general. There's no proposals currently in the mix. But I think thatIt's a, you know, I only have so much room for research and development and missionary work in my life. the, and my batting average on that is pretty dismal.thought about trying to rally the troops and get multiple proposals in from all over the country. So absent a grant from Melinda and Bill Gates, I don't think I'm going to storm the battlements of a top -down solution.Kevin K (29:09.886)So it wasn't there, was it Memphis that did up to six units without sprinklers?R. John Anderson (29:15.118)Yeah. Yeah. And then it was killed off by the state fire marshal. And so the so the legislative fix to that was to say that the state fire marshal does not have jurisdiction in Shelby County or kind of was like in there, tagged on to some other bill. So the so now you can do six units, no forest reclures, but withtypically two hour separations between units, which is not a heavy cost because by the building code, the sound transmission requirements you have, if you just pick the right wall sandwich, you will exceed the two hour fire rating by the time you get to the sound transmission coefficient number of 59, which isthe minimum between units and multifamily.Kevin K (30:14.43)Isn't it mostly just like a double layer of Type X drywall on both sides?R. John Anderson (30:18.352)Yeah, typically double layer on resilient channel or double layer on double studs with air gap. So, you know, and it's 5 -8, two layers of 5 -8.Kevin K (30:27.912)Yeah, okay.Kevin K (30:33.65)Yeah, and the whole scheme of things that's cheaper than the sprinkler deal.R. John Anderson (30:38.5)Yeah, it's also the, just makes for a much quieter unit, you know, which is a benefit that your residents would see as a good thing.Kevin K (30:46.034)Yeah, no doubt.Kevin K (30:53.586)Right. Right. So we've talked a little bit about, you know, the sprinkler issues that relates to three, four, five, six plexes, that sort of thing. We've talked about the single stair exiting possibility. What else are you seeing that like small developers should be really aware of when it comes to, or like red flags when it comes to other code issues besides what you might see in the zoningR. John Anderson (31:18.698)the, one of the things that you'll, it's a confusing problem. all, facial tissues are not manufactured by Kimberly Clark called Kleenex, right? But if you said pass me a Kleenex, people know exactly what you're talking about. The brand name has become kind of the generic name. The same thing happens with accessibility requirements.the Americans with Disabilities Act governs basically places of public accommodation, commercial offices, retail, movie theaters, universities, hospitals, state capitals. And the Fair Housing Act governs the accessibility requirements for residential.and you need to have four units or more to have that building be covered by that set of standards. So if you were going to have four units in a fourplex, two up, two down, all of the ground floor units would be required to be accessible, adaptable. That doesn't mean they have to be accessible when you build them, but they have to be adapted to be accessible in a reasonable period of time if someone with a disability wants to rentSo what that turns into is doors with enough clearance, lever hardware, enough backing in the bathrooms to put in grab bars, enough space between appliances and counters, and be able to get into the building with a zero -slip entry. So we typically build porches, you know, two and a half feet over the surrounding grade. And the way that we handlethat adaptability issue is in a fourplex with a raised floor. The ramp you put in goes down the side of a narrow deep building and brings you up to the front porch elevation. So, and you don't have to do that until someone shows up and wants to rent that, you know, is in a wheelchair or whatever. So, but the people can, a lot of people conflate accessibility for residential with ADA.R. John Anderson (33:44.634)people talk about ADA requirements as if that's all of the accessibility requirements. So for small developers, it's important to understand if you did a mixed use building, the commercial on the ground floor is governed by the ADA, although there's some square footage exceptions for certain things. And then the units upstairs, if you decided to put all four units on top of the commercial space on the ground floor, as far as the Fair Housing Act is concerned,the second floor is now the ground floor, because that's the first place that housing occurs. So now you either need a really big difference in grade or an elevator, which you're not going to amortize over four units. So the better play is to put one unit, however small or modest on the ground floor, because in a non -elevator building, all ground floor units need to be accessible, adaptable, all one of them in this case.Kevin K (34:41.534)John, what might an elevator cost in round numbers, just to by way of thinking aboutR. John Anderson (34:47.504)Well, there's like the base, the cab and the equipment round numbers, that's going to be 50 to 75 ,000. And then you're going to see typically about 25 ,000 a stop in the additional shaft way. And that's for hydraulic. Once you've ever stayed on the fifth floor of a Hampton Inn, that's a hydraulic elevator and you're able tosome maybe some bad life choices by the time you get to the fifth floor because they're very slow at that point. So four stories is kind of the effective maximum for a hydraulic and at which point now you go to a traction elevator which is significant but another 50 to 60 percent more expensive per floor. So again if you are in a situation where you're going to have to have an elevator for market reasons orfor accessibility reasons, you need a lot of units to be able to spread that cost. Because it's not only a first cost, there's the ongoing maintenance and your insurance is gonna go up. But also your construction cost is gonna go up because as soon as you introduce an elevator into the building, kind of all the trades sort of start to move their numbers up or drop out because, yeah.Elevator inspector as an HVAC guy used to doing two story buildings. I don't think I need that guy in my life, you know, because I'm supposed to provide exhaust for the shaft and they're really picky about how you do that. And I just don't do enough elevator buildings to, and I'm busy anyway, you know, so there there's a point where, it's like there, there are buildings that are scaled right for a small developer. And then there's the nextKevin K (36:22.034)Yeah.R. John Anderson (36:45.104)which is a significant bump in the number of units, the cost, the overall scale and complexity of the project. there's, and the folks have a, often have a mistaken notion about that being same as, you know, that's the same as, as the four townhouses I built, just 40 units with an elevator and corridors and fire sprinklers. What's the worry? You know, you know, if I'm going to do four units in this town with all the brain damage I got to go through, I may as well doYou know, so now I get to raise more money. It costs more to build on a per square foot basis. My rents have to be higher. Everything sort of starts to snowball in complexity and scale. And what you should have done as a small developer is instead of, you know, swinging for the fences with that home run, that great project that now you don't have to work anymore. You should do a series of small projects and have a portfolio that is made up of things that.You weren't just doubling down until you lost everything. And you see conventional developers doing the same thing. it's like, you know, if I'm going to, you know, in California, it's probably the best example. If I'm going to do 400 units, may as well do 4 ,000 because the environmental litigation will cost about the same. You know, and also if I can get the stuff approved now, because the barriers to entry are so high, I can definitely make money on 4 ,000 units.400 is kind of sketchy, I don't know, it's a small deal.Kevin K (38:17.534)Yeah, I was just having this conversation with a couple of developers, friends the other day here and like in our city. Like there's just, there's no, there's a lot of great discussion and talk about reform to enable small scale stuff. But when you actually put pencil to paper and start to do a project, like the, the review machine has no mechanism to handle.smaller scale stuff or at all. And so everything pushes for bigness. And it's frustrating because there are a lot of us who I think would like to do some smaller scale stuff. But know, John, this is one reason like you developed, you created the 4F building prototype was to really kind of help smaller developers understand like a hack around some of these different codes.R. John Anderson (39:12.622)Yeah, and that's around the same time that, at that time you could in Texas, Idaho, Nevada, and a few other places, you could build a fourplex without, fire sprinklers. and those were some of the very few places during the great recession that you could build anything. So, it seemed to make sense. What's happened since then is that the fire sprinklers will, you know, the form follows finance fourplex really at this point should be two duplexes on the same lot or.a four unit cottage court or something. David Kim was really instrumental in hacking the code to come up with the three story single stair walk up. And that could be a mixed use building with one unit on the ground floor and then no more than four units on each of the second and third floor and had a maximum exiting number. So we kindIt's kind of like working an investment strategy around the tax code. You know, it's like that's that we're going to have to fit this box. And what we found was that you do wood frame construction. You could do a tall ground floor if you needed retail. And you could do either nine units, four on each of the second and third floor and one unit on the ground floor, the rest commercial, or you could do 12 units all the way down to the bottom, or you can add additional units on the ground floor as long as theydirect access for exiting on the outside wings or something on the back. So that type is getting a lot of traction. The same time Eric Brown and Union Studio had developed similar buildings using the same analysis of the code. So there's a number of those that have been built.That one of the benefits when you're doing a small multi -family building with fire sprinklers and the like is that you, if you're only doing four units on a floor, the common area is basically the stairway at a very large landing. So you end up with maybe four, about six to 8 % of the building area is common area compared to the 15 to 18 % you see in corridor buildings.R. John Anderson (41:36.752)So got to pay to build it, you got to pay to clean it, maintain it, insure it, et cetera. And so being able to reduce the common area, being able to reduce the number of stairs, together buildings that would fit on a 50 or 100 foot lot opens up a lot of opportunities for three story buildings and for mixed use. But again, ADA for the commercial and Fair Housing Act for the rest.Kevin K (42:04.712)Right. So it's really kind of funny because I think I don't think I ever really learned about the Fair Housing Act until you and I started working together, which was, you know, easily almost a decade into my career as an architect. And then we started like looking at the Fair Housing Act. There actually are some interesting workarounds besides like the ground floor thing in the Fair Housing Act. So one or two that I want you to talk about the townhouse rules for fair housing.But one I remember is I think it was adopted in what 1983 and it exempts all buildings built before that year if I remember right. 91, okay.R. John Anderson (42:45.127)1991, May, March of 1991, March 30th, 1991. So if you have an older built.Kevin K (42:48.902)Okay. It's almost like you'd memorize that or like tattooed it somewhere.R. John Anderson (42:53.712)You remember back in the early days of computers when offices didn't have IT people and whoever had figured out how to stay on hold for three hours with Dell computers to get a technical support answer?Kevin K (43:13.534)or was like me, was like the 18 or 19 year old who just grew up with computers, that was the IT person.R. John Anderson (43:16.644)Yep. Yep. And the fact that you could figure out how to download a print driver, you were now the go -to guy. And the more people came to you and asked for help with their print driver, the more problems you solve. the, you know, the fact that you never got a raise because you were the de facto IT guy. So these days for our own purposes, we have dug into this stuff. And then you start to look around and say, wait a minute, not everybody has done this homework. No, no, it's likeKevin K (43:23.228)Yeah. yeah.R. John Anderson (43:46.126)No, we're really busy and it's really hard and really complicated already. You know, we already have the building code and the fire code and everything else. Fair Housing Act. Jesus. So the, so I really, I have a hard time passing up on a chance to reduce my sense of imposter syndrome. It's like, I really am a legitimate guy, you know? No, no, I've read this. Let me send it to you, youDid you read it? No, I didn't. just took a word for it. So no, you got to read it and tell other people about it. You know, it's like, so you, you, ended up coming across as some sort of, you know, uh, crazy person, you know, the kind of people who nailed their 19 thesis to the door of the church and Wittenberg kind of guy, you know, like, uh, that was not my intent, but it's sort of evolved thatKevin K (44:40.072)So anyway, one thing I remember, so a great workaround in the Fair Housing Act, I've had a lot of people over the years talk to me about, have like a old historic mixed use building and they don't want to, they're scared to renovate the upstairs for residential because of what they say ADA, just like to your point, it's not ADA, it's actually fair housing. And my point was no, you're exempt.R. John Anderson (45:06.212)You're exempt. One of the problems, those buildings are covered by the international existing building code, which gives fire officials and building officials a lot of latitude about how you get to the intent of the code, how much effort is going to be required given the level of renovation you're doing. And that same sort of metric is appliedaccessibility upgrades for places covered with the ADA, know, more than 20, you know, can you devote 25 % of your budget to accessibility? Well, $25 ,000 in bathroom upgrades doesn't go very far. It's pretty easy to do. But when it comes time, when, when, uh, the current building code says, if you have residential occupancy over mercantile or business or, know, anything else, that's a big.hazard and now you need to have fire sprinklers because it's under the international building code. International residential existing building code says look if you can put another layer of drywall on the ceiling and create a two -hour rating around the stairway you're good you know. Also you need to use a firecock anytime conduits go through a through a rated floor orA lot of building officials are not ready to, you know, to learn about how much discretion they have or why they should use it in order to be able to get those second story apartments back online on Main Street. So the so even though it's in the code that they have adopted that this could happen, they're not trained at it. They don't get any practice at it. It basically, you know, goes through kind of the code egg sorter. Let's you know, you're spending this much money. You're now you need to bring it all up to code.So in those settings,R. John Anderson (47:06.434)Eric Cromberg is probably the best person to talk to about what the international existing code will allow you to do if you can explain it to the people enforcing it. And I think it's important to do that before you submit your plans with your code analysis and your stamp and wet signature next to the code analysis that says, I really do know what I'm talking about. Please look up these sections.You need to, you you need to talk with your building officials about the intent of the code and the like. And have you seen this section of the, know, you have to cultivate those relationships so that people trust you rather than they feel like they have to defend their turf. So, but the, the, the townhouse exemption and fair housing act is two story units are exempt from being covered by fair housing act, which.accounts for some of the enthusiasm for building rental townhouses.Kevin K (48:07.868)Yeah, yeah. And can you stack them then?R. John Anderson (48:12.75)No. No, if you stack a townhouse now, that's two units between, even though they have a firewall, once you put two units into a townhouse, now you're into fire sprinklers.Kevin K (48:24.86)Okay, yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. All right, so yeah, so just again to clarify a little bit in case we're making people's heads spin a little bit. I think it might be, but like when you talked about the international existing building codes is yet another code that's part of the model code family and it has to be adopted. I don't think like my city has adopted it. I think there are a lot of local governmentsR. John Anderson (48:36.624)I think the odds in that are pretty high.R. John Anderson (48:53.392)I would, if you look, it's in there in the alphabet soup of adopted codes. Most, most folks.Kevin K (48:56.188)Yeah. Okay. But it was, it was created, okay. It was created for the express purpose of making renovation of more historic buildings easier.R. John Anderson (49:07.588)Yeah. And the, all of the, the, the best parts of the international existing building code are all the paragraphs about intent, you know, and if you're sitting down with a code official about that, said, okay, so this says the intent is this, can we agree that that's, you know, that's a good intent? And if we can get, if we can satisfy that, you know, this project, can we get to yes, you know, the,But folks in those kind of positions don't want to be called out for being wrong or dogmatic or they wouldn't want to be characterized as Pharisees, which is usually the word that's like, I'm thinking that really loud and I'm in those meetings. The blind guides. So I think that it's about building relationships with the staff that are dealing with that.And I think in order to get to that point, small developers probably need to international residential code compliant buildings and establish trust with their neighbors so that you've built that foundation of support and you're blunting some of the opposition that might come if you're looking for some kind of entitlement later. But if you're just asking for building permits,build your track record and build your trust, be the person who does what they say they're going to do. Hire local folks, train local folks, create enough daylight in between you and the big production builder from out of town or the developer from the other side of town where you are, if this is going to happen, we would rather our person do it. Janine is the person who's built all those great carriage houses in our neighborhood.And we would like to see her be able to continue to do that. So we think that, you know, it's reasonable that we should, you when she renovates the old trolley stop, mixed use buildings, she shouldn't have to put in fire sprinklers, youKevin K (51:19.954)Yeah. Yeah. And to kind of put a last piece on it that is ever much so fun is there's the human element to all of this. And I was, I actually saw a tweet this morning from our friend Aaron Lubeck about, I think a builder friend in where he is in Durham had a project submitted and one staff reviewer for some, I can't remember the exact story, but there were like two different staff reviewers or code reviewers on it. And one of them came back with likeNo,R. John Anderson (51:53.264)Hard to get good help.Kevin K (51:54.686)That's OK.R. John Anderson (51:57.216)I'm being protected from marauding squirrels on the telephone wires.Kevin K (52:01.022)I fully understand. But basically, one staff person had no comments, and another one came back with 25 comments. And so there's a human element to this that the people who review your application and are looking to apply the building code may end up with very different interpretations of what is required and what is not required. So John, advice on how to navigateR. John Anderson (52:27.182)Well, the plan checkers and the building inspectors report to the chief building official. And that's a position that you have to identify when you adopt the building code. You know, you're, you're, you know, that's a job description that, that has to get filled. And sometimes that person has many other responsibilities, but there's somebody identified as the last word as the chief building official. Appointments with that person.and conversations about intent and, you know, demonstrating that you're trying to build something that will be safe and reasonable. And that you're trying to get to the intent of the code. If you can build that relationship,if you're sideways with a plan checker, it's like, well, we have, we have two very different opinions about this. Can we bring in the chief building official to, you know, break the tie or maybe advise a different approach? You know, are you okay with that? It's like, it's, it's, you know, it's not personal, you know, I definitely think this is working and my, my architect who's responsible for the safety of this building until the end of their natural life,that person, you know, has signed off on it. The city's got no liability here, even though you believe it does. So we think we've got you covered for liability. We think we've been responsible as professionals. How about it? I mean, come on, you know, but you need to build that relationship demonstrating that you are not not someone who's, you know, given to tantrumsor calling city council members, city manager, you're not gonna go over their head. You wanna work it out within that smaller circle. The day you go overhead, you go up the food chain, you can mark that day because now from now on, all your plan checks are gonna be given extra scrutiny and given to the most senior person and the most careful person in the group.R. John Anderson (54:41.014)More difficult is the situation where somebody will pick up a set of plans that are pretty much done by a junior person and then redline it and say, no, no, it has to be like this. And your conversation likely when you get your plans back is going to be with the junior person who can't actually articulate what the senior person did. And it's quite possible that they were wrong.but now you got that extra layer to go through. So to be able to get to the person who can say grace on the whole arrangement and build that relationship and demonstrate that while you have that relationship, you're not always going to pull that card. You're not going to do it for every little thing. And it's like the...There's kind of a quick sorting system that plan check and building inspectors have. If this person is basically doing a good job, I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt because they're consistently doing a good job. If this person is a jerk, I think it's my duty to protect my fellow building inspectors from this monster.You know, and I need to actually maybe cross the line a little bit in order to be able to put this guy in his place because he never read the code. You know, so the, there's a whole lot of high school hallway one -upsmanship that goes on usually between males. I think that female building officials and female contractors and developers typically are more rigorous instudy and their presentation and their communication skills. and I think recovering elementary school teachers who've become small developers, their communication skills are awesome because their expectation for human behavior is fairly modest.Kevin K (56:41.662)No doubt, no doubt. All right, John, before we wrap, any final words or thoughts for people to think about as they look at codes?R. John Anderson (56:53.602)Well, I think that particularly for small developers, it's really important because of the level of complexity and kind of the possibility that code issue will just stop your project altogether. It's important to become, don't leave it to your architect to be the last word on the code. It's OK to have spirited discussions about it. ButGet Francis Ching's books about, you know, the building codes illustrated or the international residential code illustrated, which when you read the code, there are a lot of things that you end up making a sketch or a diagram. So you see if you've got it figured out because it makes references from one section to another. You can't just hold it all in your head. The great thing about the Frank Ching books is that he's made those drawings much better than youand they communicate really effectively and you can bring that into the meeting. don't subcontract code compliance to somebody else because just like you wouldn't subcontract your personal guarantee on the construction loan to someone else, it's that serious. And start with small projects. Make small code problems and solveKevin K (58:10.386)Yeah, noKevin K (58:16.638)Yes, some of us may. We may learn to take that advice one day or maybe not, who knows.R. John Anderson (58:24.448)Well, I have a steady stream of I told you so's on any day of the week. So I'm happy to help people out with that.Kevin K (58:33.054)Yeah. All right, John, thanks so much. this. All right. See you later.R. John Anderson (58:35.994)Sure, take care.Thank you. Get full access to The Messy City at kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/subscribe

AFTERWORD DESCRIPTION  Hey kids!  Let's talk about hell and judgment! Archie Jackson and David Kim stop by to talk about why they each lost sleep trying to tackle the two most confusing clauses in the Apostle's Creed - that Jesus “descended into hell” and that He will come back to “judge the living and the dead.” What does that mean? We talk about the difference between the words the Bible uses to describe the afterlife, including sheol, gehenna, hades, paradise and Abraham's bosom - and how the ideas about the afterlife shift and change a bit from the Old Testament to the New.  We also talk about judgment - and Jesus as judge.   We talk about why this concept makes people uneasy (even scared) - probably because of the caricatures that many of us carry about the idea of God's judgment (and David Kim shares about how his VBS teachers locked him in a closet and dressed up like demons to get him to accept Jesus). Sheesh. Religious trauma much? And finally, we discuss how Jesus returning as judge is actually a very *good* thing, and a strong source of ultimate hope for Christians.   Speakers: David Tieche + Archie Jackson + David Kim

“God made us in community for community.” As a society, we don't always experience the kind of community God intended. This is why we need to be aware of the ways in which we can cultivate a safe and deep community with others! Today, David Kim, discipleship and formation pastor at WestGate Church in Silicon Valley, California, and author of Made To Belong gives us five practices to build this kind of community we crave. Quotes We are tired of shallow conversations and relationships. God made us in community for community. Humans are known for hiding ourselves. If we continue to hide, how can we be known? Resources David Kim on Instagram https://www.westgatechurch.org/ Connect with Hope Made Strong Website: HopeMadeStrong.org Socials: Facebook – Instagram – Twitter – YouTube

AFTERWORD DESCRIPTION  No one likes being bossed around.  Even little kids will buck against it, saying things like, “You're not the boss of me” or “You're not my mom.”  But the second line of the Apostle's Creed says that Jesus is not only God, but the Apostles call him “Lord.”  In a real way, they're saying, “Jesus IS the boss of me.”  David Kim stops by to talk about the implication of the phrase “our Lord” means obedience to Master.  We discuss the idea that what you want the most is actually your identity, and how everyone has a Master (whether they want one or not).  We also talk about the toughest parts of following Jesus, and practical steps to trying to obey Jesus - what it looks like, and what it doesn't look like.  Also, DK talks about eating a live octopus, which super grosses out David, who is from Ohio, and wasn't around a lot of live octopuses growing up. Speakers: David Tieche + David Kim

DAVID KIM IS BACK ON AUGUST 3RD LIVE FROM THE MAVERIK CENTER WITH A LOT TO PROVE FOLLOWING A LONG LAYOFF! TICKETS ON SALE NOW AT FIERCEFIGHTINGCHAMPIONSHIP.COM

In this episode of The Speed of Culture, Matt Britton interviews Cheryl Gresham, CMO, and David Kim, CRO at Verizon Value. They explore the innovative strategies behind Verizon Value's rebranding to Total Wireless, the company's commitment to providing affordable, high-quality wireless services, and its plans to maintain a competitive edge.Follow Suzy on Twitter: @AskSuzyBizFollow Cheryl Gresham on LinkedInFollow David Kim on LinkedInSubscribe to The Speed of Culture on your favorite podcast platform.And if you have a question or suggestions for the show, send us an email at suzy@suzy.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jeff Grubb and the whole Giant Bomb crew have brought a couch to Los Angeles for Summer Game Fest! Let's fill it with friends and shenanigans in and around the industry.Segment 1: Simon Dasan, Seth Rosen, Sam WinklerSegment 2: Jake Steinberg, Jason Fanelli, Mark Medina, Taylor Cocke, Geuillermo LeozSegment 3: Dash Oshry, Casper Van Dien, Celia Bee, David Kim, Ash Thukral, Trey PowellSegment 4: THE NASTY BOYS - Charlie Wacholz, Jesse Vitelli, Alex Van Aken, Eric Van Allen, Moises Taveras, Kenneth Shepard, Michael Higham, John Carson, Ryan TatumSegment 5: Louise Blain, Crista Castro, Bryan Singh, Jurge Cruz-Alvarez, John Warren, Rayme VinsonSegment 6: Greg Miller, Tim Gettys, Blessing Adeoye Jr., SnowbikeMike, Andy Cortez, Dan Ryckert, Mike Minotti

Jeff Grubb and the whole Giant Bomb crew have brought a couch to Los Angeles for Summer Game Fest! Let's fill it with friends and shenanigans in and around the industry.Segment 1: Simon Dasan, Seth Rosen, Sam WinklerSegment 2: Jake Steinberg, Jason Fanelli, Mark Medina, Taylor Cocke, Geuillermo LeozSegment 3: Dash Oshry, Casper Van Dien, Celia Bee, David Kim, Ash Thukral, Trey PowellSegment 4: THE NASTY BOYS - Charlie Wacholz, Jesse Vitelli, Alex Van Aken, Eric Van Allen, Moises Taveras, Kenneth Shepard, Michael Higham, John Carson, Ryan TatumSegment 5: Louise Blain, Crista Castro, Bryan Singh, Jurge Cruz-Alvarez, John Warren, Rayme VinsonSegment 6: Greg Miller, Tim Gettys, Blessing Adeoye Jr., SnowbikeMike, Andy Cortez, Dan Ryckert, Mike Minotti

This week we talk about the Fallout TV show boosting Fallout 76, Fallout 4, and Fallout 3 sales, Embracer Group splitting up, David Kim's Uncapped Games making an RTS, and more!

We brought the couch back to Los Angeles to chat with all of our friends in and around the industry before The Game Awards pops off! *edited out the breaks and tried to clean up the audio!00:00 - Segment 1 - Couch: Jake Baldino, Lucy James, Emma Fyffe | Back Row: Tamoor Hussain, Michael Higham45:43 - Segment 2 - Couch: Alyssa Mercante, Jen Glennon, Brittani Johnson, Steve Saylor | Back Row: Shawn Kittelson, John Drake01:24:18 - Segment 3 - Couch: Jake Steinberg, Kahlief Adams, Parris Lillly | Back Row: Graham Reid, Dalibor Dimovski02:09:58 - Segment 4 - Couch: Shannon Liao, Ben Starr, Rebb Ford, Harris Foster | Back Row: Xalavier Nelson, Rayme Vinson02:52:33 - Segment 5 - Couch: Ash Thukral, David Kim, Alexa Bowers, Andrejs Klavins | Back Row: Seth Rosen, Alexander Dracott03:38:36 - BONUS Remedy Segment - Couch: Jeff Bakalar, Sam Lake, Kyle Rowley, Ilkka Villi | Back Row: Lucy James, Tamoor Hussain03:56:29 - Segment 6 - Mary Kish and The Fuckos #gbatnite #giantbomb #thegameawardsThis show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5928697/advertisement