Open Source Security Podcast

Recently, I had the pleasure of chatting with Paul Asadoorian, Principal Security Researcher at Eclypsium and the host of the legendary Paul's Security Weekly podcast. Our conversation dove into the often-murky waters of embedded systems and the Internet of Things (IoT), sparked by a specific vulnerability discussion on Paul's show concerning reference code for the popular ESP32 microcontroller. The show notes and blog post for this episode can be found at https://opensourcesecurity.io/2025/2025-05-embedded-security-with-paul-asadoorian/

Dimitri Stiliadis, CTO from Endor Labs, discusses the recent tj-actions/changed-files supply chain attack, where a compromised GitHub Action exposed CI/CD secrets. We explore the impressive multi-stage attack vector and the broader often-overlooked vulnerabilities in our CI/CD pipelines, emphasizing the need to treat these build systems with production-level security rigor instead of ignoring them.   The show notes and blog post for this episode can be found at https://opensourcesecurity.io/2025/2025-04-tjactions_with_dimitri_stiliadis/

I chat with Alan Pope about the open source security tools Syft, Grype, and Grant. These tools help create Software Bills of Materials (SBOMs) and scan for vulnerabilities. Learn why generating and storing SBOMs is crucial for understanding your software supply chain and quickly responding to new threats like Log4Shell. The show notes and blog post for this episode can be found at https://opensourcesecurity.io/2025/2025-04-syft-grype-grant-alan-pope/

Aaron Frost explores the overly complex world of vulnerability identifiers for end of life software. We discuss how incomplete CVE reporting creates blind spots for users while arming attackers with knowledge. The conversation uncovers the ethical tensions between resource constraints and security transparency, highlighting why the "vulnerable until proven otherwise" approach is the best path forward for end of life software. The show notes and blog post for this episode can be found at https://opensourcesecurity.io/2025/2025-04-cve_eol_aaron_frost/

Cargo Semver Checks is a Rust tool by Predrag Gruevski that is tackling the problem of broken dependencies that cost developers time when trying to upgrade dependencies. Predrag's work shows how automated checks can catch breaking changes before they're released, potentially saving projects from unexpected failures and making dependency updates less painful across the entire Rust ecosystem. The show notes and blog post for this episode can be found at https://opensourcesecurity.io/2025/2025-04-cargo-semver-checks-predrag-gruevski/

Lars Wirzenius discusses his innovative CI/CD system Ambient, which uses isolated virtual machines without network access to enhance security, and his work on Radicle, a peer-to-peer Git collaboration platform. Together, these projects offer a glimpse into a more distributed future for software development, addressing key challenges in current CI/CD systems like long wait times, security vulnerabilities, and centralized infrastructure limitations. The blog post for this episode can be found at https://opensourcesecurity.io/2025/2025-03-ambient-radicle-lars-wirzenius/

William Brown tells us all about how confusing and complicated the FIDO authentication universe is. He talks about WebAuthn implementation challenges to flaws in the FIDO metadata service that affect how hardware tokens are authenticated against. The conversation covers the spectrum of hardware security key quality, attestation mechanisms, and the barriers preventing open source developers from improving industry standards despite their expertise. The blog post for this episode can be found at https://opensourcesecurity.io/2025/2025-03-fido_auth_william_brown/

In this episode, open source legal expert Luis Villa breaks down what the EU's Cyber Resilience Act means for developers and businesses, exploring carve-outs for individual contributors and the complex relationship between security and sustainability. Luis provides practical guidance on navigating this evolving regulatory landscape while explaining why the CRA represents both a challenge and an opportunity for the open source ecosystem. The blog post for this episode can be found at https://opensourcesecurity.io/2025/2025-03-CRA_luis_villa/

Brian Fox discusses findings from a recent Sonatype report about the growing challenge of malicious packages in open source repositories. At the time of recording there are now over 820,000 malware packages in public repositories. Brian explains why certain ecosystems are more vulnerable than others and how behavioral detection methods can identify suspicious packages, and the challenge in solving this problem. The blog post for this episode can be found at https://opensourcesecurity.io/2025/2025-03-oss_malware_brian_fox/

In this episode Open Source Security talks to Dr. Kelly Masada about the Open Information Security Foundation (OISF). The way OISF is managing Suricata through a foundation is super interesting. There are a lot of lessons in this one for both open source projects and existing open source foundations.   The blog post for this episode can be found at https://opensourcesecurity.io/2025/2025-03-oss_foundations_kelley_misata/

In this episode Open Source Security chats with Sheogorath about HedgeDoc project's journey from HackMD to CodiMD and finally to HedgeDoc. We learn what forking a project looks like, including license changes (MIT to AGPL), security vulnerability management across different codebases, naming challenges, and infrastructure migrations. The conversation goes through to journey from HackMD to CodiMD and all the lessons learned along the way. And there are many lessons. The blog post for this episode can be found at  https://opensourcesecurity.io/2025/2025-02-fork_open_source_sheogorath/

In this episode, Open Source Security chats with Aaron Frost, CEO of Hero Devs about the world of maintaining end-of-life open source software. Aaron explains how EOL versions of open source work and how backporting security fixes can help maintaining compliance. In the discussion we cover the "just upgrade" mentality, how backporting works, why it's hard, and why it matters. We also cover some oddities the world of CVE brings to the discussion. The blog post for this episode can be found at  https://opensourcesecurity.io/2025/2025-02-patching_EOL_OSS_aaron_frost/

François Proulx, a supply chain security researcher at Boost Security, discusses how continuous integration (CI) and build pipeline security represents a critical and overlooked hole in our supply chain security. It seems like most supply chain compromises are actually from CI system breaches rather than direct code compromise, yet we seem to obsess over everything on either side of the CI system. François has a bunch of really good practical suggestions for how we can start to improve our CI security today.   The blog post for this episode can be found at https://opensourcesecurity.io/2025/2025-02-ignoring_ci_security_francois_proulx/

In this discussion with Tremolo Security CTO Marc Boorshtein, we explore what modern day Single Sign-On (SSO) looks like. Everyone likes to talk about zero trust, but how does that work? We talk about some of the history of authentication that got us here, and some technical details on how you should be implementing authentication into your application. We finish up with some passkey details and realize every authentication discussion really just turns into complaining how hard identity is. The blog post for this episode can be found at https://opensourcesecurity.io/2025/2025-02-modern_day_authentication_with_marc_boorshtein/

Dick Brooks from Business Cyber Guardian discusses the landscape of federal software security requirements, we discuss frameworks like CISA's Software Acquisition Guide, Secure Software Development Framework, and the EU's Cyber Resilience Act. These regulations impact open source projects differently from commercial vendors, Dick helps explain what that means for the vendors as well as open source developers. The accompaning blog can be found at https://opensourcesecurity.io/2025/01-government_security_requirements_with_dick_brooks     CISA Software Acquisition Guide CISA SAG Reader Project NASA SSDF collaboration

In this episode, Gary Kramlich, the lead developer of Pidgin discusses the challenges and strategies of maintaining a 26-year-old open source messaging client.Gary tell us all about how a small team manages technical debt, handles library dependencies, and makes decisions about rewrites versus incremental improvements while supporting a broader open source ecosystem. The accompaning blog can be found at https://opensourcesecurity.io/2025/01-open_source_maintenance_with_gary_kramlich/

In this episode of Open Source Security, Josh welcomes Thomas Depierre, a Site Reliability Engineer and open source maintainer, to discuss the intersection of safety and security. Thomas explains why safety is broader than security. While security often views people as the problem, Thomas explains that people are paradoxically the solution. Nothing should work, but it does, mostly due to people keeping things working.   The accompaning blog can be found at https://opensourcesecurity.io/2025/01-safety_vs_security_with_thomas_depierre/

It's a new year and time for some changes to the opensourcesecurity.io website.   It's time to retire the podcast, but that's to make way for something new and hopefully better. You can read the details in the blog post (the audio version is basically the same thing) https://opensourcesecurity.io/posts/2025-01-the_future_of_open_source_security/

Josh and Kurt talk about new NIST password guidance. There's some really good stuff in this new document. Ideas like usability and equity show up (which is amazing). There's more strict guidance against rotating passwords and complex passwords. This new guidance gives us a lot to look forward to. Show Notes Usagi Electric NIST proposes barring some of the most nonsensical password rules NIST SP 800-63(B) STRIDE threat model PASTA threat model

Josh and Kurt talk about the supply chain of Santa. Does he purchase all those things? Are they counterfeit goods? Are they acquired some other way? And once he has all the stuff, the logistics of getting it to the sleigh is mind boggling. It's all very complex Show Notes Project Gunman

Josh and Kurt talk about a CWE Top 25 list from MITRE. The list itself is fine, but we discuss why the list looks the way it does (it's because of WordPress). We also discuss why Josh hates lists like this (because they never create any actions). We finish up running through the whole list with a few comments about the findings. Show Notes 2024 CWE Top 25 Most Dangerous Software Weaknesses Set of 9 Unusual Odd Sided dice - D3, D5, D7, D9, D11, D13, D15, D17 & D19

Josh and Kurt talk about the FBI telling everyone to use end to end encrypted messengers. This is a pretty drastic deviation from messages in the past. The reason for this is it appears the US telephone networks are pwnt beyond repair at this point, which is concerning. The only real solution now is to treat the phone network as untrusted and encrypt all the traffic. Show Notes Salt Typhoon U.S. officials urge Americans to use encrypted apps amid unprecedented cyberattack LTT Hacked phone Security Cryptography Whatever Telegram Secure Messaging Apps Comparison

Josh and Kurt talk about a serious D-Link security vulnerability in a bunch of end of life products. The crux of the discussion focuses on D-Link, but the reality is almost all consumer gear you plug into the internet is terrible. And there's little hope it will get better anytime soon. Show Notes China has utterly pwned 'thousands and thousands' of devices at US telcos D-Link tells users to trash old VPN routers over bug too dangerous to identify D-Link YouTube explainer video

Josh and Kurt embark on a thought experiment to discuss how a commercial entity would handle something like the xz incident. It was very specific and difficult to understand. It's easy to claim just because source code being available doesn't matter. But the reality is when source code is needed, it can make a huge difference for everyone working together, just like we saw with xz. Show Notes Lindt admits chocolate may not be ‘expertly crafted' in class-action lawsuit battle Mitchell & Webb - Needlessly ambiguous terms

Josh and Kurt talk about the way Wordpress vets their plugins. While Wordpress has been in the news lately, they do some clever things to get plugins approved. There's a static analyzer that runs against new submissions. We discuss using static analysis, securing open source, contributing and more. Show Notes Linus Torvalds Lands A 2.6% Performance Improvement With Minor Linux Kernel Patch Kurt's Plugin

Josh and Kurt talk to Brian Fox from Sonatype and Donald Fischer from Tidelift about their recent reports as well as open source. There are really interesting connections between the two reports. The overall theme seems to be open source is huge, everywhere, and needs help. But all is no lost! There's some great ideas on what the future needs to look like. Show Notes Donald Fischer Brian Fox Tidelift Sonatype The 2024 Tidelift state of the open source maintainer report Sonatype State of the Software Supply Chain Anchore 2024 Software Supply Chain Security Report OpenSSF TAC issue 101

Josh and Kurt talk about three government activities happening around security. CISA has a request for comment, and an international strategic plan around cybersecurity. These are both good ideas, and hopefully will help drive change. But we also discuss an EU proposal that brings liability rules to software which sounds like a great way to force change to happen. Show Notes Request for Comment on Product Security Bad Practices Guidance FY2025-2026 CISA International Strategic Plan EU brings product liability rules in line with digital age and circular economy CSA Cloud Controls Matrix

Josh and Kurt talk about the Meshtastic open source project. It's a really slick mesh radio system that runs on very cheap radio equipment. This episode isn't very security related (there are a few things), but it is very open source. Show Notes Meshtastic Heltec LoRa 32(V3) Radio 465 Rutgers University Confirmed: Meshtastic and LoRa are dangerous Meshtastic Routing Issues & Deployment Scenarios TC2-BBS-mesh The Comms Channel Josh's BBS Heltec T114 bug

Josh and Kurt talk to Seth Larson from the Python Software Foundation about security the Python ecosystem. Seth is an employee of the PSF and is doing some amazing work. Seth is showing what can be accomplished when we pay open source developers to do some of the tasks a volunteer might consider boring, but is super important work. Show Notes Seth Larson XKCD PGP Signature Seth's Blog Python and Sigstore Deprecating PGP - PEP 761 Python SBOMs  

Josh and Kurt talk about the current Wordpress / WP Engine mess. In what is certainly a supply chain attack, the Advanced Custom Fields forking. This whole saga is weird and filled with chaos and stupidity. We have no idea how it will end, but we do know that the blog platform you use shouldn't be this exciting. The bad sort of exciting. Show Notes WordPress.org's latest move involves taking control of a WP Engine plugin Wordpress / WP Engine timeline Knorr German Recipes

Josh and Kurt talk about the recent CUPS issue. The vulnerability itself wasn't all that exciting, but the whole disclosure process was wild. There's a lot to talk about, many things didn't quite go as planned and it all leaked early. Let's talk about why and what it all means. Show Notes CUPS vulnerability Akamai report Wil Wheaton: being a nerd is not about what you love; it's about how you love it

Josh and Kurt talk about a few things that have recently come out of CISA. They seem to be blaming the vendors for a lot of the problems, but there's also not any actionable advice telling the vendors what they should be doing. This feels like the classic case of "just security harder". We need CISA to be leading the way funding and defining security, not blaming vendors for giving the market what it demands. Show Notes iCloud Photos Downloader CISA boss: Makers of insecure software must stop enabling today's cyber villains A Security Market for Lemons CISA and FBI Release Secure by Design Alert on Eliminating Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerabilities CISA Secure by Design Pledge Railroad Newsletter CISA Secure Software Development Attestation Form

Josh and Kurt talk about the 2024 Tidelift maintainer report. The report is pretty big and covers a ton of ground. We focus in a few of the statistics that should worry anyone who uses open source. We've known for a while developers are struggling, and the numbers back that up. This one feels like the old "we've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas". Show Notes THE 2024 TIDELIFT STATE OF THE OPEN SOURCE MAINTAINER REPORT Canadian passport Changelog Interviews #433 Pandas CVE

Josh and Kurt talk about some security researchers sort of taking over the .MOBI whois server. The story is a bit sensational, but we ask if it really matters? There are a lot of interesting possible attacks, but turning something like this into a good attack is really hard, maybe impossible. The researchers presented the findings in a very reasonable way. Show Notes We Spent $20 To Achieve RCE And Accidentally Became The Admins Of .MOBI Heinz says sorry for ketchup QR code that links to porn site

Josh and Kurt talk to Jay Jacobs about Exploit Prediction Scoring System (EPSS). EPSS is a new way to view vulnerabilities. It's a metric for the likelyhood that a vulnerability will be exploited in the next 30 days. Jay explains how EPSS got to where it is today, how the scoring works, and how we can start to think about including it in our larger risk equations. It's a really fun discussion. Show Notes Jay Jacobs on LinkedIn EPSS Jay's graph animation Cyentia's A Visual Exploration of Exploits in the Wild

Josh and Kurt talk about Chrome unexpectedly going EOL on Ubuntu 18. Keeping old things alive is really hard to do, and in open source it's becoming more common to just run the latest version rather than trying to keep old versions alive for long periods of time. Show Notes Chrome dumped support for Ubuntu 18.04 – but it'll be back Linus Torvalds talks AI, Rust adoption, and why the Linux kernel is 'the only thing that matters' Pidgin backdoor

Josh and Kurt talk about a story that discusses a story from Black Hat that references supply chains. There's a ton of doom and gloom around our software supply chains and much of the advice isn't realistic. If we want to take this seriously we need to stop obsessing over the little problems and focus on some big problems. Show Notes Black Hat USA 2024: Key Takeaways from the Premier Cybersecurity Event The Reason Train Design Changed After 1948

Josh and Kurt talk about a few stories around the TLS CA certificate world. It's all pretty dire sounding. There's not a lot of organization or process in the space, and the root CAs are literally the foundation of modern society, everything needs them to function. There's not a lot of positive ideas here, it's mostly a show where Kurt explains to Josh what's going on, because Josh doesn't want to care (and will continue to ignore all of this going forward). Show Notes Firefox's Mozilla follows Google in losing trust in Entrust's TLS certificates DigiCert Revocation Incident (CNAME-Based Domain Validation) List of Trust Lists

Josh and Kurt talk about CWE. What is it, and why does it matter. We cover some history, some shortcomings, and some ideas on how CWE could be used to make security a lot better. We frame the future discussion around the OWASP top 10 list. We should be putting more effort into removing removing entire classes of vulnerabilities. Show Notes CWE Episode 360 – Memory safety and the NSA Inside 22,734 Steam games

Josh and Kurt talk about a presentation Josh recently gave that was supposed to be about how open source works. The talk was the wrong topic for a security crowd, but there's a lot of interesting details in the questions and comments that emerged. It's clear a lot of security people don't really care about the fine details about what open source is, their primary goal is to help keep development secure. Show Notes Grassr00tz Pamela Chestek copyright paper Josh's presentation

Josh and Kurt talk about a story talking about the "graying" of open source. There doesn't seem to be many young people working on open source, but we don't really know why that is. There are many thoughts, but a better question is why should anyone get involved in open source anymore? The world has changed quite a lot since open source was created. Show Notes The graying open source community needs fresh blood OSPOs for Good 2024 Day 1 Part 1 Day 1 Part 2 Day 2 Part 1 Day 2 Part 2 FFmpeg bug JSON Editor Online https://rfc3339.com/

Josh and Kurt talk about two documents from the US government that discuss open source in very different ways. The CISA document lays out a way to measure open source, but we take issue with the idea of trying to measure which open source projects are "good". The Whitehouse on the other hand takes an approach that is very open source, get involved. Trying to measure open source isn't producing anything actionable, but getting involved is very actionable, and very much how open source works. Show Notes CISA: Continued Progress Towards a Secure Open Source Ecosystem Whitehouse: Administration Cybersecurity Priorities for the FY 2026 Budget

Josh and Kurt talk about a pretty big bug found in CocoPods ownership. We also touch on a paper that discusses the technical debt that open source should have. We discuss what the long term sustainability of open source. There aren't any good solutions for open source today, but talking about these problems is important, we have to start to understand what's going on before we can plausibly discuss solutions. If you're an open source project that needs to put things on pause, or even walk way, that's OK. Show Notes CocoaPods Vulnerabilities Could Hit Apple, Microsoft, Facebook, TikTok, Snap and More The Expense of Unprotected Free Software Long-term maintenance of PCRE2 #426

Josh and Kurt talk about the recent OpenSSH vulnerability and the node-ip project owner taking their project private. They're quasi related in the context of two open source projects handled bugs very differently. The OpenSSH bug isn't really as serious as it seems, but you still want to patch. The node-ip bug is a very different story. The relationship between users and open source developers is one experiencing more strain now than we've ever seen. It's a weird conversation and we don't have good answers. Security in general is a collection of unsolvable problems. Show Notes Qualys security advisory Hacker News Discussion Security Cryptography Whatever Dev rejects CVE severity, makes his GitHub repo read-only

Josh and Kurt talk about the latest polyfill.io mess. Apparently someone took over a very popular project and started to serve malware. First XZ, now this. What does it mean for open source? We don't have any answers, and it's hard to even talk about this problem because it's so big. The thing is though, even if we can't fix open source, it's here to stay. Show Notes Polyfill supply chain attack hits 100K+ sites OpenSSF Scorecard

Josh and Kurt talk about three wangles of responsibility. We start with a story about a bike theft ring, bike theft doesn't usually get any attention, but this one is special. Then we ask why it seems like everyone is getting hacked, it's because they have to tell us now. And finally we have a story about the huge number of unreported vulnerabilities in open source projects. This statistic probably affects all software, but there's some numbers for open source specifically. Show Notes The West Coast's Fanciest Stolen Bikes Are Getting Trafficked by One Mastermind in Jalisco, Mexico $5 million worth of stolen tools recovered thanks to Apple's AirTag — 12 secret storage facilities had around 15,000 construction tools Vulnerability fixes in plain sight: How your scanners are missing hundreds of vulnerabilities

Josh and Kurt talk about a new proposal from OpenSSH to add a timeout to penalize clients misbehaving. But this then brings up the typical security conversation of "if it's not perfect we shouldn't do it". Trying new things is a good thing, even if something fails, we learn a lesson that we can use in the future. Show Notes OpenSSH introduces options to penalize undesirable behavior Hacker News comments

Josh and Kurt talk to Alex Kulagin from Flipper about the Flipper Zero. It's one of the coolest hacker devices that exists on the market. We talk about what it is, how it started, what it can (and can't) do. It's a really fun conversation. Show Notes Flipper Zero Website Headphone jack radio capture Flipper Zero on Tik Tok

Josh and Kurt talk about a blog post titled "Your API Shouldn't Redirect HTTP to HTTPS". It's an interesting idea, and probably a good one. There is however a lot of baggage in this space as you'll hear in the discussion. There's no a simple solution, but this is certainly something to discuss. Show Notes Your API Shouldn't Redirect HTTP to HTTPS Hacker News discussion HSTS Section 5.1

Josh and Kurt talk about a blog post about frozen kernels being more secure. We cover some of the history and how a frozen kernel works and discuss why they would be less secure. A frozen kernel is from when things worked very differently. What sort of changes will we see in the future? Show Notes Kurt's strange coffee Why a 'frozen' distribution Linux kernel isn't the safest choice for security

Josh and Kurt talk about open source and autonomy. This is even related to some recent return to office news. The conversation weaves between a few threads, but fundamentally there's some questions about why do people do what they do, especially in the world of open source. This also is a problem we see in security, security people love to tell developers what to do. Developers don't like being told what to do. Show Notes pycurl issue Apple, SpaceX, Microsoft return-to-office mandates drove senior talent away RSA ANIMATE: Drive: The surprising truth about what motivates us Sudo-rs dependencies: when less is better phishing webcomic Debian OpenSSL Bug (16 years)