BACKSLIDERS

On this episode of Backsliders, we talk with our new friend, the singer, songwriter, harpist, musician, and performing artist Calvin Arsenia. Stay tuned to the end of the episode for a surprise performance by Calvin!  Calvin grew up in Olathe, Kansas, about twenty miles away from Kansas City. In terms of his religious background, he was someone who enjoyed “having a buffet of it all.” He dwelled in churches that mostly fall under the umbrella of Protestant, non-denominational churches, charismatic churches, The International House of Prayer, as well as more apologetics-based churches. He studied with 7th Day Adventists as well as the Messianic Jewish Temple as well. Calvin tells us about what he observed while growing up in the midwest as a sensitive and creative young boy, never the most masculine in his circles. He found that leading worship, and expressing himself through music, created a safe environment for him to be the creative, sensing person that he was, without those traits being seen as effeminate or wrong–like they commonly are in church/religion. Calvin also shares his experience of true devotion to God, and the traumatic complexities of being taught that “homosexuality” was a sin as a closeted young child who knew he was “different.” He absorbed the message that the only way to live a life that would honor God would be to become a worship pastor with a wife and kids, so that’s what he thought he would have to do.  When Calvin was on a mission and living abroad in Scotland in his early 20s, he began noticing that he was able to be very open and free with his new friends that he had made there–friends that were not with the church. He remembers vividly feeling their love for him and acceptance of him, without conditions of who he was “supposed” to be. This shocked him and moved him to his core. While on a prayer walk there in Scotland, he had a moment where he realized he could no longer keep hiding himself from the world. And that’s where the title of this episode comes in. Calvin had a conversation with his higher power, and decided not to hate himself anymore, because he didn’t think God hated him. He decided to believe that being his true self would set him free. Calvin speaks with us at length about the complicated process of leaving his faith community after that experience abroad, as he figured out how to find work outside of Christian spheres so he could fully live the life he knew was his, and the double life he had to lead for the years in between. Now, he’s not connected to any church or religion, but he believes in the metaphysical spiritual plane that is accessible to all of us as human and spiritual beings. He is a full-time artist and musician in Kansas City, he’s found a new family in the queer community, and he makes music so beautiful you’ll feel it in your soul. We hope you enjoy this conversation as much as we did. Be sure to listen to the end for a live performance by Calvin and his harp! [CONNECT WITH CALVIN] Instagram Website Cantaloupe - Album Twitter Podcast [NEW NEWS] If you enjoy this podcast and want to hang out with us a little more, we also have a web series titled Backsliders! This show was recently selected by the Tribeca Film Festival and the Tribeca Creators Market sponsored by HBO! Check out our new episode by clicking here. [OUR LINKS] Backsliders Instagram Bob Billiams Productions Instagram Facebook Twitter Keylee Instagram Micah Instagram [FREE WAYS TO SUPPORT BACKSLIDERS] Please consider these free things you can do to help our projects reach others! 1) Subscribe to this podcast! 2) Leave us a 5-star rating and a one-sentence review! 3) Share your favorite episode with your friends or in a group you're a part of! 4) Subscribe to our Youtube Channel and leave us a comment! Thank you so much for your support!  [WATCH OUR OTHER SHOWS] Backsliders the series Home the series Talk the series [CREDITS] Intro Music "7.2.19" by Chase Burnett Outro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia Nunes Title Animation/Poster art by Cody Walzel Special Thanks to Angie Charles [REACH OUT] We'd love to hear from you directly! Let's talk about what we were raised to believe, where we are now, and how that affects our relationships with others and ourselves! keylee@bbobbilliams.com micah@bobbilliams.com

On this episode of Backsliders, we talk with our brilliant and beautiful new friend Brittany Bruton. Brittany is an educator, writer, wife, and mom. Brittany talks with us about her upbringing as a 7th-day Adventist in Georgia. Full disclosure, we didn’t know that much about 7th Day beliefs when this conversation began, so she gave us a rundown of some of their specifics: observing the Saturday sabbath, practicing vegetarianism, and the story of the prophet of the church Ellen G. White—a woman. As a child, Brittany was a natural leader. She had an early habit of observing things in the church and then asking her mom a lot of questions back at home about scenarios that she could never get full satisfaction from. Things like if it was women’s day, or mother’s day, women could speak in her church. But only if the woman’s husband was there and a part of leadership. Brittany also observed women’s roles in the church —cooking, cleaning, caring for the children, teaching classes—roles that are vital and of utmost importance, but it bothered her that women were expected to do these things, and then they were prevented from ministry roles and preaching. She wondered, “How can we have a prophet who wrote the manuals who was a woman, but she and all other women are not allowed to preach?” These questions would stay with her as she grew up in the church.  Brittany went to Christian school from elementary to 8th grade, then public high school, and then to Georgia State for college. In college, she met people from all walks of life and ideologies and her view of the world really expanded there. Brittany initially felt like she was called to ministry, but, after experiencing more blatant sexism in the church she attended in college, she just could no longer see herself on that path. It was too difficult to justify being treated like a second-class citizen in a church environment. She became an educator and a writer instead. Brittany shared with us how much of a powerful experience she’s been having over the last many years as she has continued to open herself up to new questions, new beliefs, and texts and ideologies that are different than those she was told to be the ultimate truth.  Although she still believes in God and Jesus, she can no longer say she is a Christian. She no longer belongs to a church and is finding community in groups of Black Womanist Pastors committed to dismantling racism and sexism. Now, after giving birth and become a mother, Brittany says, “I fully embrace the fact that God is a woman. My language for spirit now is Mother Comforter. I refuse to believe that there is a god and that no part of that is female. So much of life comes from women. Now, I can approach God differently, because I know that a part of God can at least empathize for what I’ve gone through, and can help me in mothering, in being patient, comforting, loving and nurturing.”  Brittany also talks with us about her experience getting a diagnosis for a chronic illness that she has, and how her time alone in the hospital made her question why she was shrinking herself to make anyone else happy, since all we have is this moment right now. That experience was the catalyst to her launching her blog and website, and sharing more of her true thoughts with the world. Other topics we touch on: the effects of being taught we are inherently wicked, purity culture, the power and resiliency of the human body, the feminine divine, racism and christian nationalism holding its hand, and how problematic and harmful it is to demonize or discourage education. We had such a beautiful conversation with Brittany and we hope you enjoy it as much as we did.   [CONNECT WITH BRITTANY] Instagram Blog Shop [NEW NEWS] If you enjoy this podcast and want to hang out with us a little more, we also have a web series titled Backsliders! This show was recently selected by the Tribeca Film Festival and the Tribeca Creators Market sponsored by HBO! Check out our new episode by clicking here. [OUR LINKS] Backsliders Instagram Bob Billiams Productions Instagram Facebook Twitter Keylee Instagram Micah Instagram [FREE WAYS TO SUPPORT BACKSLIDERS] Please consider these free things you can do to help our projects reach others! 1) Subscribe to this podcast! 2) Leave us a 5-star rating and a one-sentence review! 3) Share your favorite episode with your friends or in a group you're a part of! 4) Subscribe to our Youtube Channel and leave us a comment! Thank you so much for your support!  [WATCH OUR OTHER SHOWS] Backsliders the series Home the series Talk the series [CREDITS] Intro Music "7.2.19" by Chase Burnett Outro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia Nunes Title Animation/Poster art by Cody Walzel Special Thanks to Angie Charles [REACH OUT] We'd love to hear from you directly! Let's talk about what we were raised to believe, where we are now, and how that affects our relationships with others and ourselves! keylee@bbobbilliams.com micah@bobbilliams.com

On this episode of Backsliders, we talk with our dear friend, the talented and light-filled artist Forest VanDyke! Forest is an actor, singer, writer, creator, and teaching artist currently in Austin, Texas, though he has lived in Brooklyn for the past twelve years. We are so stoked to celebrate that Forest is a featured artist on the new Grammy-Nominated album Dialogues on Race by Gregg August! We love him so much, and his friendship means the world to us. We hope you enjoy this conversation with our dear friend as much as we did! It was hard to end the conversation and we plan on recording with him again soon. (** NOTES ** *TW:*** We do touch on the topics of abortion and rape in this episode. Please skip if these subjects are triggering for you. PS. Listen to the whole thing to get a bonus at the very end of this episode where we review a new review of our podcast and Micah tries to take constructive criticism. LOL) Back to this episode! Forest talks with us about his upbringing in Austin, his junior high experience in the American Boys Choir in New Jersey, his high school years at a Baptist school in Austin, and his college years at Texas State University. We also get into the details of his religious upbringing and his perspective growing up as a gay black man in the south. He was raised African-American Baptist and spent his whole life going to a Baptist church in Austin, Texas. Forest is the son of a deacon and deaconess, sang in the choir, and became a student leader. People at church even used to call him “preacha man” because everyone thought he would be a preacher. Forest tells us about what it was like feeling like he couldn’t truly be himself until he went to college and stepped away from religious environments and into theatre spaces. Where is he today? Not to spoil anything, but Forest confessed to us that he no longer identifies as Christian, and walked away, in his words, “because of what I saw and experienced as a gay man, but also as a black man. And the history of that book (bible), and how it was used, not only in the U.S. but in Africa. And the power that colonizers used with that book to oppress people. And...in good faith, I just can’t get behind it, I can’t sit there and listen to those things when I know the history behind it. And we don’t know what those original words were because they’ve been translated, and re-translated. Actually, I walked away from everything, before quarantine... but I’ve been reacquainted with God in a different way, and I’m exploring Him / It / She through African Traditional Religions. Because I also want to be in contact with my ancestors, and I feel like something that’s untouched, unspoiled, feels right for me.” Forest’s story is so powerful. We talk candidly with him about leaving Christianity, and getting back to his African spiritual roots. Other topics we discuss: George Floyd, the ways LGBTQ people are treated by Christians, and the experience of living with family that are fundamental Christians, while you are exploring ancient religions and talking to your spirit guides. :)  [CONNECT WITH FOREST] Instagram Twitter Facebook Listen to TRACK SEVEN to hear his voice featured on the album Dialogues on Race. [NEW NEWS] If you enjoy this podcast and want to hang out with us a little more, we also have a web series titled Backsliders! This show was recently selected by the Tribeca Film Festival and the Tribeca Creators Market sponsored by HBO! Check out our new episode by clicking here. [OUR LINKS] Backsliders Instagram Bob Billiams Productions Instagram Facebook Twitter Keylee Instagram Micah Instagram [FREE WAYS TO SUPPORT BACKSLIDERS] Please consider these free things you can do to help our projects reach others! 1) Subscribe to this podcast! 2) Leave us a 5-star rating and a one-sentence review! 3) Share your favorite episode with your friends or in a group you're a part of! 4) Subscribe to our Youtube Channel and leave us a comment! Thank you so much for your support!  [WATCH OUR OTHER SHOWS] Backsliders the series Home the series Talk the series [CREDITS] Intro Music "7.2.19" by Chase Burnett Outro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia Nunes Title Animation/Poster art by Cody Walzel Special Thanks to Angie Charles [REACH OUT] We'd love to hear from you directly! Let's talk about what we were raised to believe, where we are now, and how that affects our relationships with others and ourselves! keylee@bbobbilliams.com micah@bobbilliams.com  

On this episode of Backsliders, we talk with our new friend Lou Wilson. Lou is a comedian, actor, writer, and improviser from Los Angeles, CA. He currently writes for Jimmy Kimmel Live and stars in the new movie King of Staten Island, directed by one of our personal favorites, Judd Apatow. (It’s streaming on Amazon/HBO/HULU - watch it!) Lou talks with us about his upbringing in Los Angeles where he was raised Catholic and went to mass every Sunday with his family, including grandparents. Lou says he was never really into church and he wasn’t forced to go to Sunday School, so he wasn’t as serious about everything as the other kids his age. Lou describes himself as a Lax Catholic and said he’s always believed in God, but has never been big on rules and rituals. When Lou was in junior high, another scandal with abusive priests in the Catholic church went public, including some priests that his parents knew. This caused his mother to stop going to church, and so he stopped going as well. Lou did connect with the values of his Jesuit Catholic High School, that his education had a purpose that was meant to serve greater humanity. Both in high school and college, he was able to distance himself from the rules and rituals of his Catholic surroundings and would skip church whenever he could. “Where do I seek God in my life?” is a meditation/prayer that he learned in college and still carries with him today. We also talk with Lou about his creative process, where he credits the spiritual spaces he grew up and was educated in, which taught him to do work that creates a more just world in service of others. We hope you enjoy this conversation! [CONNECT WITH LOU] Instagram King of Staten Island [NEW NEWS] If you enjoy this podcast and want to hang out with us a little more, we also have a web series titled Backsliders! This show was recently selected by the Tribeca Film Festival and the Tribeca Creators Market sponsored by HBO! Check out our new episode by clicking here. [OUR LINKS] Backsliders Instagram Bob Billiams Productions Instagram Facebook Twitter Keylee Instagram Micah Instagram [FREE WAYS TO SUPPORT BACKSLIDERS] Please consider these free things you can do to help our projects reach others! 1) Subscribe to this podcast! 2) Leave us a 5-star rating and a one-sentence review! 3) Share your favorite episode with your friends or in a group you're a part of! 4) Subscribe to our Youtube Channel and leave us a comment! Thank you so much for your support!  [WATCH OUR OTHER SHOWS] Backsliders the series Home the series Talk the series [CREDITS] Intro Music "7.2.19" by Chase Burnett Outro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia Nunes Title Animation/Poster art by Cody Walzel Special Thanks to Angie Charles [REACH OUT] We'd love to hear from you directly! Let's talk about what we were raised to believe, where we are now, and how that affects our relationships with others and ourselves! keylee@bbobbilliams.com micah@bobbilliams.com

On this episode of Backsliders, we talk with our new friend, Dorcas Gitimu. She is a 20-year-old Political Science, Foreign Affairs, and Philosophy Student at Youngstown State University. She is also a writer, poet, and creative who writes from her experiences and perspectives moving through the world as a Black Woman who is a self-described “Christian Exvangelical,” as well as a First-Generation Immigrant and a proud Kenyan-American. She came to the United States from Kenya when she was 2 years old, and here, she and her parents became involved in the Assemblies of God denomination. In her words, “In essence, I grew up in Charismatic White Pentecostal Evangelical Christian spaces.” However, Dorcas’ faith was in main part shaped by her parents (both of whom are educators and came to the U.S. for school) and her family, who actually had their own church in Kenya. She jokes with her friends that she’s genuinely never met someone from Africa who is an atheist or doesn’t have some form of faith, because of the “genuine faith-based culture” there. Dorcas also shared with us some of her personal spiritual journey, and that her Christian faith became very real to her when she was 11. She studied the faith for herself, read her Bible, prayed, and never stopped questioning. Fast forward to when Dorcas turned 16 years old: the Trump era happened...and her faith deconstruction started, spurred in large part from “toxic religious set-ups" she experienced in Evangelicalism. After that, she started her faith reconstruction, truly finding and molding a faith that was, in her words, “the Christian faith that I had always known to be better than the road that Evangelicism gave me.” This is a powerful interview and our first episode with a Gen-Z guest! We hope you enjoy listening to this conversation with Dorcas as much as we enjoyed having it with her. Follow Dorcas on Instagram, Twitter, and Clubhouse below and stay tuned for more creations she is planning to put into the world—including maybe a future podcast of her own?? We’d love to listen to it!  NEW NEWS: If you enjoy this podcast and want to hang out with us a little more, we also have a web series titled Backsliders! This show was recently selected by the Tribeca Film Festival and the Tribeca Creators Market sponsored by HBO! Check out our latest episode by clicking here. [CONNECT WITH DORCAS] Instagram Twitter Clubhouse: @Dorcasswg [OUR LINKS] Backsliders Instagram Bob Billiams Productions Instagram Facebook Twitter Keylee Instagram Micah Instagram [FREE WAYS TO SUPPORT BACKSLIDERS] Please consider these free things you can do to help our projects reach others! 1) Subscribe to this podcast! 2) Leave us a 5-star rating and a one-sentence review! 3) Share your favorite episode with your friends or in a group you're a part of! 4) Subscribe to our Youtube Channel and leave us a comment! Thank you so much for your support!  [WATCH OUR OTHER SHOWS] Backsliders the series Home the series Talk the series [CREDITS] Intro Music "7.2.19" by Chase Burnett Outro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia Nunes Title Animation/Poster art by Cody Walzel Special Thanks to Angie Charles [REACH OUT] We'd love to hear from you directly! Let's talk about what we were raised to believe, where we are now, and how that affects our relationships with others and ourselves! keylee@bbobbilliams.com micah@bobbilliams.com  

Happy Black History Month! On this episode of Backsliders, we talk with our new friend, Dianca London Potts, a brilliant and hilarious author currently working and residing in Brooklyn. Her memoir, Planning for the Apocalypse: Meditations on Faith and Being the Only Black Girl at Your Party, is forthcoming from 37 Ink. We chat with Dianca about her experience growing up in a rural, conservative suburb outside of Philadelphia in the 90s, going to many different types of churches, and getting her elementary education in a very restrictive, nationalist, fundamental baptist school. We also dive into her high school experience in a Mennonite school, where being in a new space that wasn’t Christian-nationalist opened her up to feel comfortable questioning things like not only her nation and her country’s history but her faith community’s history as well. After high school, Dianca attended a Christian university in New England for two years, where her studies made her become even more interested in viewing the bible and sacred text as something of literary relevance that needs interpretation and context, and not something that is “just Truth with a capital T.” However, even this collegiate Christian environment was still seeped in conservatism, and she still had to deal with unique strains of racism and prejudice that took a toll on her mental health. She decided she had to leave the Christian university and complete the final years of her higher education at a secular university, Temple. She talks with us about how she is still in process of deconstructing her fundamentalist upbringing, and probably always will be. But as she’s been digging into her family’s history (especially on her mother’s side of her family, with her great-grandfather founding a Church), she feels like the Black church has been a bedrock of stability in offering things that the government still fails to offer, and also as a place of collective resistance against white supremacy and collective action for civil rights. She feels like it (Christianity) is a broken thing, but there are parts of it that she’s proud of, and to disavow herself as a Black American from that history would be “really strange.” She feels like she’s ‘culturally christian’ in that way, (something she knows her parents will probably react to with, “What are you saying?”). Dianca also shared with us that when she thinks about what matters most to her from everything that she was either raised to believe or she walked away believing from how she was raised, it’s the radical love of “Christ as the archetype.” She views Christ as a story archetype and model for how to be ethically, sympathetically, and inclusively human. “Jesus the archetype as a model for radical love, and how to care not only for each other but for ourselves.” She thinks that makes her "christian-adjacent," or culturally christian, descriptions she says usually make everyone uncomfortable, but it’s right for her. This conversation goes deep. We even talk about subjects like the blasphemy of white evangelical Christianity, the hypocrisy of virtue-signaling, and the power of simply holding space and listening. We think this is one of the best conversations we've had on our whole show so far. :) We hope you enjoy our conversation with Dianca as much as we did, and please show support for her artistry by subscribing to her newsletter and following her on social media! All links are below. [CONNECT WITH DIANCA] Newsletter Tumblr Instagram Twitter [OUR LINKS] Backsliders Instagram Bob Billiams Productions Instagram Facebook Twitter Keylee Instagram Micah Instagram [CREDITS] Sound Mixing by Darren Augustus Videography and Photography by Claude Charles Intro Music "7.2.19" by Chase Burnett Outro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia Nunes Title Animation/Poster art by Cody Walzel Special Thanks to Angie Charles [FREE WAYS TO SUPPORT BACKSLIDERS] Please consider these free things you can do to help our projects reach others! 1) Subscribe to this podcast! 2) Leave us a 5-star rating and a one-sentence review! 3) Share your favorite episode with your friends or in a group you're a part of! 4) Subscribe to our Youtube Channel and leave us a comment! Thank you so much for your support!  [WATCH OUR OTHER SHOWS] Backsliders the series Home the series Talk the series [REACH OUT] We'd love to hear from you directly! Let's talk about what we were raised to believe, where we are now, and how that affects our relationships with others and ourselves! keylee@bbobbilliams.com micah@bobbilliams.com

Hello again, old friends! Welcome to Season Two of Backsliders! In this episode, we (Keylee and Micah) sit down just the two of us and talk about some of the questions and themes we’ve been ruminating on throughout this very challenging last year (okay, last few years). We talk candidly about grief, loss, the parallels of facing a loved one's terminal illness and facing a global pandemic, the importance of self-compassion, learning to pursue progress and not perfection, and most importantly: how we still don’t really know much of anything. We hope this conversation brings you some sense of connection and makes you feel less alone. We will be releasing the episodes we recorded in our early 2020 lockdown, as well as some new conversations we plan to have with friends old and new in 2021. Thanks so much for listening. Stay safe and be well. [NEW NEWS] If you enjoy this podcast and want to hang out with us a little more, we also have a web series titled Backsliders! This show was recently selected by the Tribeca Film Festival and the Tribeca Creators Market sponsored by HBO! Check out our new episode by clicking here. [OUR LINKS] Backsliders Instagram Bob Billiams Productions Instagram Facebook Twitter Keylee Instagram Micah Instagram [CREDITS] Poster Photography by Claude Charles Intro Music "7.2.19" by Chase Burnett Outro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia Nunes Title Animation/Poster art by Cody Walzel Special Thanks to Angie Charles [FREE WAYS TO SUPPORT BACKSLIDERS] Please consider these free things you can do to help our projects reach others! 1) Subscribe to this podcast! 2) Leave us a 5-star rating and a one-sentence review! 3) Share your favorite episode with your friends or in a group you're a part of! 4) Subscribe to our Youtube Channel and leave us a comment! Thank you so much for your support!  [WATCH OUR OTHER SHOWS] Backsliders the series Home the series Talk the series [REACH OUT] We'd love to hear from you directly! Let's talk about what we were raised to believe, where we are now, and how that affects our relationships with others and ourselves. keylee@bbobbilliams.com micah@bobbilliams.com  

Happy Pride Month! On this episode of Backsliders, we talk with our new friend, Kristina Cunningham, of the blog and Instagram account Transitional Christian. Kristina grew up in the Ozark Mountains in a very fundamentalist family. Her childhood was spent going to an independent church that wasn't connected to any other larger denomination. She describes her family's church as a "little shack in the woods" where the entire congregation consisted of 45 people...all her family members. Aside from the tent revival preachers that would pass through, her church congregation kept to themselves and believed that all outsiders were going to hell. She remembers praying by the time she was four or five that she would wake up in the body she knew she was—a girl. But little Kristina belonged to a church that every Sunday was talking about "those homosexuals and trans folks that were abominations of God." Kristina's family didn't even own a TV growing up, and she first learned about the real existence of other queer people when she went to a video store at 17 years old. This made her finally feel like she could have options and maybe even find acceptance of her true self, outside of the family she was born into. Kristina talks with us about her experience with homelessness after being outed by her boyfriend in high school, and how the greatest people she ever met were those she met while living on the street. While Kristina admits she went through many years of being angry with the image of God, she now finds peace in spirituality outside of fundamentalist rigidity and sees God in love, connection and nature. This is a great conversation and we hope you enjoy it as much as we did! Note from Key and Micah: We apologize for our delay in releasing this latest episode. We have been taking a pause to listen, reflect, and take actions in this fight to dismantle hatred in all its current forms throughout our nation. We want to state that we are not only committed to being allies to the LGBTQ+ community, but we are committed to anti-racism. We stand with the Black Lives Matter movement and its goal to dismantle systemic racism, white supremacy, and end the unjust murders and abuse of precious black lives. We hope you do, too. We created a new page with a compilation of some helpful resources on large and small actions we can all take against racism, as well as other accounts to follow from anti-racism advocates, leaders, and teachers. This resource hub will be permanently featured on our website. Check it out here.NEW NEWS: If you enjoy this podcast and want to hang out with us a little more, we also have a web series titled Backsliders! This show was recently selected by the Tribeca Film Festival and the Tribeca Creators Market sponsored by HBO! Check out our new episode by clicking here.CONNECT WITH KRISTINA Transitional Christian BlogInstagramOUR LINKSBacksliders InstagramBob Billiams Productions InstagramFacebookTwitterKeylee InstagramMicah InstagramCREDITSSound Mixing by Darren AugustusVideography and Photography by Claude CharlesIntro Music "7.2.19" by Chase BurnettOutro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia NunesTitle Animation/Poster art by Cody WalzelSpecial Thanks to Angie CharlesFREE WAYS TO SUPPORT BACKSLIDERSIf you can't give financially, we understand. Please consider these free things you can do to help our projects reach others!1) Subscribe to this podcast!2) Leave us a 5-star rating and a one-sentence review!3) Share your favorite episode with your friends or in a group you're a part of!4) Subscribe to our Youtube Channel and leave us a comment!Thank you so much for your support! WATCH OUR OTHER SHOWSBacksliders the seriesHome the seriesTalk the seriesREACH OUTWe'd love to hear from you directly! Let's talk about what we were raised to believe, where we are now, and how that affects our relationships with others and ourselves! keylee@bbobbilliams.com micah@bobbilliams.com

On this episode of Backsliders, we talk with our friend, fellow actor/writer/director/producer Jason Nguyen. Jason was born in Vietnam and moved to the U.S. when he was really young. We talk with him about his upbringing in a Buddhist household in Vancouver, Washington. His parents were spiritual people but Jason felt like he had to piece together their beliefs as if they were the Zodiac Killer. He tells us stories about going to Temple as a child and how he thought it was a Vietnamese community space for immigrant families to get to know each other, but he didn’t really know what the monks were doing. Jason thinks about death a lot, and deals with being depressed by talking to other people about how they stay positive (Check out his podcast Stay Positive!). Other fun topics in this episode include: some superstitions that Jason’s parents held, how Jason first heard about Jesus and hell, the first time he stepped foot in a church, meditation, and more.NEW NEWS: If you enjoy this podcast and want to hang out with us a little more, we also have a web series titled Backsliders! This show was recently selected by the Tribeca Film Festival and the Tribeca Creators Market sponsored by HBO! Check out our new episode by clicking here. CONNECT WITH JASONStay Positive PodcastInstagramTwitter OUR LINKSBacksliders InstagramBob Billiams Productions InstagramFacebookTwitterKeylee InstagramMicah Instagram CREDITSSound Mixing by Darren AugustusVideography and Photography by Claude CharlesIntro Music "7.2.19" by Chase BurnettOutro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia NunesTitle Animation/Poster art by Cody WalzelSpecial Thanks to Angie Charles HOW YOU CAN SUPPORT BACKSLIDERSIf you enjoy our show and are able to give, we kindly ask for a donation of your choice via Venmo. Think of it like buying a latte for a friend when you can't leave your house. :)Venmo Donation Link: https://venmo.com/keylee-sudduthPayPal Donation Link: https://paypal.me/bobbilliams FREE WAYS TO SUPPORT BACKSLIDERSIf you can't give financially, we understand. Please consider these free things you can do to help our projects reach others!1) Subscribe to this podcast!2) Leave us a 5-star rating and a one-sentence review!3) Share your favorite episode with your friends or in a group you're a part of!4) Subscribe to our Youtube Channel and leave us a comment!Thank you so much for your support! WATCH OUR OTHER SHOWSBacksliders the seriesHome the seriesTalk the series REACH OUTWe'd love to hear from you directly! Let's talk about what we were raised to believe, where we are now, and how that affects our relationships with others and ourselves! keylee@bbobbilliams.com micah@bobbilliams.com

On this episode of Backsliders, we talk with our friend and filmmaker Sarah Butler! Sarah was raised in Austin in an Evangelical Christian home that at times was more legalistic in nature. She was homeschooled until her sophomore year of high school, once her parents separated and she started taking care of her siblings after school while her mom worked. We talk with Sarah about her experience at a Christian film program, meeting her husband, and how the experience of becoming a mother has taken her faith to a deeper level. Right now, she says she is still figuring out what she believes and is becoming more and more comfortable asking questions and embracing uncertainty. Other topics we cover: learning to overcome the fear of what other people( particularly Christian family/peers) might think of you, the controversy of dressing up for Halloween, Christianity and social activism, the desire to go off the grid, feminism, purity culture, Micah’s yogi Jesus computer background, and more.NEW NEWS: If you enjoy this podcast and want to hang out with us a little more, we also have a web series titled Backsliders! This show was recently selected by the Tribeca Film Festival and the Tribeca Creators Market sponsored by HBO! Check out our new episode by clicking here. CONNECT WITH SARAH Sarah's InstagramLet Me Do Right by You - Film - Instagram OUR LINKSBacksliders InstagramBob Billiams Productions InstagramFacebookTwitterKeylee InstagramMicah Instagram CREDITSSound Mixing by Darren AugustusVideography and Photography by Claude CharlesIntro Music "7.2.19" by Chase BurnettOutro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia NunesTitle Animation/Poster art by Cody WalzelSpecial Thanks to Angie Charles HOW YOU CAN SUPPORT BACKSLIDERSIf you enjoy our show and are able to give, we kindly ask for a donation of your choice via Venmo. Think of it like buying a latte for a friend when you can't leave your house. :)Venmo Donation Link: https://venmo.com/keylee-sudduthPayPal Donation Link: https://paypal.me/bobbilliams FREE WAYS TO SUPPORT BACKSLIDERSIf you can't give financially, we understand. Please consider these free things you can do to help our projects reach others!1) Subscribe to this podcast!2) Leave us a 5-star rating and a one-sentence review!3) Share your favorite episode with your friends or in a group you're a part of!4) Subscribe to our Youtube Channel and leave us a comment!Thank you so much for your support! WATCH OUR OTHER SHOWSBacksliders the seriesHome the seriesTalk the series REACH OUTWe'd love to hear from you directly! Let's talk about what we were raised to believe, where we are now, and how that affects our relationships with others and ourselves! keylee@bbobbilliams.com micah@bobbilliams.com 

On this episode of Backsliders, we talk with our friend and fellow writer, producer Nick Morton! Nick was raised Catholic and went to an Episcopalian boarding school. We talk with Nick about his upbringing, the fear of hell, and some valuable lessons he learned at Georgetown (like the effectiveness of action, recognizing that change is inevitable and that itself is divinity). After graduating from college and spending 18 years in LA, Nick got sober and re-evaluated his spirituality through AA’s encouragement of a relationship with a Higher Power. He doesn’t believe in hell or pray, but he believes that God sends him challenges to make him stronger. Nick is now a father and he tells us some funny stories about sending his kids to a Jewish school and Episcopalian school as a non-religious person. Other topics include: finding divinity in the present moment, meditation, releasing control, helping others to help yourself, etc. **Note: This episode was recorded in-person weeks before the COVID-19 quarantine was enacted. Keep staying home and social distancing, y'all.** NEW NEWS: If you enjoy this podcast and want to hang out with us a little more, we also have a web series titled Backsliders! This show was recently selected by the Tribeca Film Festival and the Tribeca Creators Market sponsored by HBO! Check out our new episode by clicking here. CONNECT WITH NICK Drunkalogues PodcastTwitterInstagram OUR LINKSBacksliders InstagramBob Billiams Productions InstagramFacebookTwitterKeylee InstagramMicah Instagram CREDITSSound Mixing by Darren AugustusVideography and Photography by Claude CharlesIntro Music "7.2.19" by Chase BurnettOutro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia NunesTitle Animation/Poster art by Cody WalzelSpecial Thanks to Angie Charles HOW YOU CAN SUPPORT BACKSLIDERSIf you enjoy our show and are able to give, we kindly ask for a donation of your choice via Venmo. Think of it like buying a latte for a friend when you can't leave your house. :)Venmo Donation Link: https://venmo.com/keylee-sudduthPayPal Donation Link: https://paypal.me/bobbilliams FREE WAYS TO SUPPORT BACKSLIDERSIf you can't give financially, we understand. Please consider these free things you can do to help our projects reach others!1) Subscribe to this podcast!2) Leave us a 5-star rating and a one-sentence review!3) Share your favorite episode with your friends or in a group you're a part of!4) Subscribe to our Youtube Channel and leave us a comment!Thank you so much for your support! WATCH OUR OTHER SHOWSBacksliders the seriesHome the seriesTalk the series REACH OUTWe'd love to hear from you directly! Let's talk about what we were raised to believe, where we are now, and how that affects our relationships with others and ourselves! keylee@bbobbilliams.com micah@bobbilliams.com

In this episode of Backsliders, we talk with our new friend Brenda Marie Davies. Brenda is from New Jersey and grew up 'Casual Catholic' before going to a non-denominational evangelical church when she was in middle school. Brenda has always been a passionate, outspoken person. We talk with her about how she went from being a leader in her youth group, praying on the front lawn of her school, organizing a purity ceremony with her friends, arguing with her science teacher about creationism--to eventually deconstructing her fundamental Christian views in a public forum. Brenda tells us the story of how she aligned her sexuality with her spirituality and became inspired to create the sex-positive, LGBTQ-affirming, science-affirming progressive Christian YouTube channel God is Grey. Brenda proudly identifies as a Christian and believes Jesus was a feminist, a teacher, and inclusive to the core. We loved having her on the show and hope you enjoy our conversation! **Note: This episode was recorded in-person weeks before the COVID-19 quarantine was enacted. Keep staying home and social distancing, y'all.**NEW NEWS: If you enjoy this podcast and want to hang out with us a little more, we also have a web series titled Backsliders! This show was recently selected by the Tribeca Film Festival and the Tribeca Creators Market sponsored by HBO! Check out our new episode by clicking here. CONNECT WITH BRENDABrenda's Youtube ChannelGod is Grey PodcastGod is Grey Instagram OUR LINKSBacksliders InstagramBob Billiams Productions InstagramFacebookTwitterKeylee InstagramMicah Instagram CREDITSSound Mixing by Darren AugustusVideography and Photography by Claude CharlesIntro Music "7.2.19" by Chase BurnettOutro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia NunesTitle Animation/Poster art by Cody WalzelSpecial Thanks to Angie Charles HOW YOU CAN SUPPORT BACKSLIDERSIf you enjoy our show and are able to give, we kindly ask for a donation of your choice via Venmo. Think of it like buying a latte for a friend when you can't leave your house. :)Venmo Donation Link: https://venmo.com/keylee-sudduthPayPal Donation Link: https://paypal.me/bobbilliams FREE WAYS TO SUPPORT BACKSLIDERSIf you can't give financially, we understand. Please consider these free things you can do to help our projects reach others!1) Subscribe to this podcast!2) Leave us a 5-star rating and a one-sentence review!3) Share your favorite episode with your friends or in a group you're a part of!4) Subscribe to our Youtube Channel and leave us a comment!Thank you so much for your support! WATCH OUR OTHER SHOWSBacksliders the seriesHome the seriesTalk the series REACH OUTWe'd love to hear from you directly! Let's talk about what we were raised to believe, where we are now, and how that affects our relationships with others and ourselves! keylee@bbobbilliams.com micah@bobbilliams.com

In this episode of Backsliders, we talk with our new friend Olivia Fae Marie Wolcott. Olivia grew up in Pennsylvania in a very conservative community with four churches on each corner. She was raised Fundamental Independent Baptist, fundamental in doctrine but not affiliated with any Baptist conference. Her environment was very strict. Dancing was not allowed, and neither was rock and roll. Olivia found our podcast after she recently came out as transgender and was looking for community and understanding from other people who had grown up in fundamentalism and were publicly processing how that affected them. We talk with Olivia about the pain she experienced as a child, feeling like she couldn't be herself, and how she finally found the courage to live the life she knew was truly hers. Other topics we touch on: the power of storytelling and poetry, finding love and acceptance outside of religion, connecting with God through nature, and more.NEW NEWS: If you enjoy this podcast and want to hang out with us a little more, we also have a web series titled Backsliders! This show was recently selected by the Tribeca Film Festival and the Tribeca Creators Market sponsored by HBO! Check out our new episode by clicking here. https://youtu.be/eQpFKO6IxDI CONNECT WITH OLIVIAFacebook OUR LINKSBacksliders InstagramBob Billiams Productions InstagramFacebookTwitterKeylee InstagramMicah Instagram CREDITSSound Mixing by Darren AugustusVideography and Photography by Claude CharlesIntro Music "7.2.19" by Chase BurnettOutro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia NunesTitle Animation/Poster art by Cody WalzelSpecial Thanks to Angie Charles HOW YOU CAN SUPPORT BACKSLIDERSIf you enjoy our show and are able to give, we kindly ask for a donation of your choice via Venmo. Think of it like buying a latte for a friend when you can't leave your house. :)Venmo Donation Link: https://venmo.com/keylee-sudduthPayPal Donation Link: https://paypal.me/bobbilliams FREE WAYS TO SUPPORT BACKSLIDERSIf you can't give financially, we understand. Please consider these free things you can do to help our projects reach others!1) Subscribe to this podcast!2) Leave us a 5-star rating and a one-sentence review!3) Share your favorite episode with your friends or in a group you're a part of!4) Subscribe to our Youtube Channel and leave us a comment!Thank you so much for your support! WATCH OUR OTHER SHOWSBacksliders the seriesHome the seriesTalk the series REACH OUTWe'd love to hear from you directly! Let's talk about what we were raised to believe, where we are now, and how that affects our relationships with others and ourselves! keylee@bbobbilliams.com micah@bobbilliams.com

**Note: This episode was recorded in-person weeks before the COVID-19 quarantine was enacted. Keep staying home and social distancing, y'all.**In this episode of Backsliders, we talk with our friend and fellow filmmaker Michael L. Boccalini! Michael has had some big changes in his life! He got married! They had a baby! He’s an American citizen (we think)! We have a great talk with Michael about his very non-religious half-Italian half-Swedish upbringing in France and Norway, and his time living in the UK. He tells us stories about his delightful mother, his annoying know-it-all atheist days, and what it's like being married to a pastor’s daughter. We also talk about having a baby and how all of these changes have him feeling a different kind of way about Christianity/religion these days. Other fun topics: some really deep conversations about marriage and divorce, Michael and his wife’s Christian marriage retreat weekend, his first session with a therapist in Norway, why love means calling each other out on our bullshit, and more.NEW NEWS: If you enjoy this podcast and want to hang out with us a little more, we also have a web series titled Backsliders! This show was recently selected by the Tribeca Film Festival and the Tribeca Creators Market sponsored by HBO! Check out our new episode by clicking here. We hope it makes you laugh and feel less alone! Subscribe to our Youtube channel for more of our award-winning videos!Here are the sliding scale therapy resources we mentioned:Maple Counseling Center (Los Angeles)OpenPath Collective (virtual, search for your city if you’d like a new therapist after the #saferathome order is dismissed.) MICHAEL'S LINKSWatch LOVE POSSIBLY on Amazon Prime! LOVE POSSIBLY Facebook pageMichael InstagramMichael Facebook OUR LINKSBacksliders InstagramBob Billiams Productions InstagramFacebookTwitterKeylee InstagramMicah Instagram CREDITSSound Mixing by Darren AugustusVideography and Photography by Claude CharlesIntro Music "7.2.19" by Chase BurnettOutro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia NunesTitle Animation/Poster art by Cody WalzelSpecial Thanks to Angie Charles HOW YOU CAN SUPPORT BACKSLIDERSIf you enjoy our show and are able to give, we kindly ask for a donation of your choice via Venmo. Think of it like buying a latte for a friend when you can't leave your house. :)Venmo Donation Link: https://venmo.com/keylee-sudduthPayPal Donation Link: https://paypal.me/bobbilliams FREE WAYS TO SUPPORT BACKSLIDERSIf you can't give financially, we understand. Please consider these free things you can do to help our projects reach others!1) Subscribe to this podcast!2) Leave us a 5-star rating and a one-sentence review!3) Share your favorite episode with your friends or in a group you're a part of!4) Subscribe to our Youtube Channel and leave us a comment!Thank you so much for your support! WATCH OUR OTHER SHOWSBacksliders the seriesHome the seriesTalk the series REACH OUTWe'd love to hear from you directly! Let's talk about what we were raised to believe, where we are now, and how that affects our relationships with others and ourselves! keylee@bbobbilliams.com micah@bobbilliams.com

On this episode of Backsliders, our special guest is Blake Chastain, writer, producer and host of the popular podcast #Exvangelical. Blake talks with us about his personal journey of deconstruction, how studying the Bible led him to become more socially and politically liberal, and why he decided to start his podcast where he interviews other people who have left Evangelicalism. Other fun topics we touch on include the book “The Heart of the Artist” that Blake had to read when he was on his church’s worship team, why the Christian practice of turning natural human behavior into deviancy is problematic, and why the religious right has been so powerful and effective. NEW NEWS: If you enjoy this podcast and want to hang out with us a little more, we also have a web series titled Backsliders! This show was recently selected by the Tribeca Film Festival! Check out our new episode by clicking here. We hope it makes you laugh and feel less alone! Blake’s LinksTo watch Blake on the CBS documentary Deconstructing My Religion, click here.Listen to Blake’s podcast Exvangelical.Read Blake’s new blog Post Exvangelical Post.Exvangelical WebsitePersonal TwitterPersonal InstagramExvangelical TwitterExvangelical Instagram OUR LINKSBacksliders InstagramBob Billiams Productions InstagramFacebookTwitterKeylee InstagramMicah Instagram CREDITSSound Mixing by Darren AugustusVideography and Photography by Claude CharlesIntro Music "7.2.19" by Chase BurnettOutro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia NunesTitle Animation/Poster art by Cody WalzelSpecial Thanks to Angie Charles HOW YOU CAN SUPPORT BACKSLIDERSIf you enjoy our show and are able to give, we kindly ask for a donation of your choice via Venmo. Think of it like buying a latte for a friend when you can't leave your house. :)Venmo Donation Link: https://venmo.com/keylee-sudduthPayPal Donation Link: https://paypal.me/bobbilliams FREE WAYS TO SUPPORT BACKSLIDERS If you can't give financially, we understand. Please consider these free things you can do to help our projects reach others! 1) Subscribe to this podcast!2) Leave us a 5-star rating and a one-sentence review!3) Share your favorite episode with your friends or in a group you're a part of! 4) Subscribe to our Youtube Channel and leave us a comment!Thank you so much for your support! WATCH OUR OTHER SHOWSBacksliders the seriesHome the seriesTalk the series REACH OUT We'd love to hear from you directly! Let's talk about what we were raised to believe, where we are now, and how that affects our relationships with others and ourselves! keylee@bbobbilliams.com micah @bobbilliams.com

**Note: This episode was recorded in-person weeks before the COVID-19 quarantine was enacted. Keep staying home and social distancing, y'all.**In this episode of Backsliders, we talk with our good friend Matt Kiel. Matt grew up in Georgia. He was raised Catholic, went to mass every Sunday and was even an altar boy, but he stopped going to church about five years ago. Now, he no longer identifies with any religion. We talk with Matt about the parallels between religious rituals and OCD rituals, how church exacerbated his fears and confusion, and the story of the first time he ever cussed (at a table reading for our project Home). Other fun topics include: finding freedom in releasing control, learning to trust yourself after your religion taught you that trusting yourself was wrong, the importance of changing your environment and unlearning beliefs that cause self-harm, the difference between loneliness and solitude, and more. *Note* This episode was recorded in-person weeks before the COVID-19 quarantine was enacted.NEW NEWS: If you enjoy this podcast and want to hang out with us a little more, we also have a web series titled Backsliders! This show was recently selected by the Tribeca Film Festival! Check out our new episode by clicking here. We hope it makes you laugh and feel less alone!BONUS: Matt appeared in Episode Four of our show Home! Watch all 6 episodes of this Tribeca Film Festival 2018 selected series by clicking here. MATT KIEL LINKSYoutubeInstagramFacebookTwitter OUR LINKSInstagramFacebookTwitterKeylee InstagramMicah Instagram CREDITSSound Mixing by Darren AugustusVideography and Photography by Claude CharlesIntro Music "7.2.19" by Chase BurnettOutro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia NunesTitle Animation/Poster art by Cody WalzelSpecial Thanks to Angie Charles HOW YOU CAN SUPPORT BACKSLIDERSIf you enjoy our show and are able to give, we kindly ask for a donation of your choice via Venmo. In all honesty, we are both unemployed during this pandemic and could sincerely use any donation you can offer. Think of it like buying a latte for a friend when you can't leave your house. :)Venmo Donation Link: https://venmo.com/keylee-sudduth PayPal Donation Link: https://paypal.me/bobbilliams CONTACT USHave a question or topic you want to discuss? Want to be a guest on the show? Reach out! Email us at keylee@bobbilliams.com or micah@bobbilliams.com.

This is the first episode of Backsliders that we recorded via Skype during COVID-19 quarantine. In this episode, we have a wonderful talk with author, speaker, researcher and advocate Linda Kay Klein. Linda is the Founder and President of Break Free Together, a not-for-profit that uses story exchange to help people release shame and claim their whole selves. Her organization was born out of Linda’s 15 years of research documented in her award-winning book (one of Keylee's favorites), "Pure: Inside the Evangelical Movement that Shamed a Generation of Young Women and How I Broke Free." Linda talks with us about her upbringing in Evangelical Christianity, how her experiences in purity culture shaped her view of herself, sex, and Christianity, and where she is in her faith today. We also talk with Linda about the trap of "shiny, happy Christianity," the importance of acknowledging and working through the dark to embrace the light, and how sharing our true stories can be such a powerful tool against shame and isolation. Linda Kay Klein's LinksWebsiteBookPersonal InstagramBreak Free Together InstagramTwitterOur LinksInstagramFacebookTwitterKeylee InstagramMicah InstagramCreditsSound Mixing by Darren AugustusVideography and Photography by Claude CharlesIntro Music "7.2.19" by Chase BurnettOutro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia NunesTitle Animation/Poster art by Cody WalzelSpecial Thanks to Angie CharlesHOW YOU CAN SUPPORT BACKSLIDERSIf you enjoy our show and are able to give, we kindly ask for a donation of your choice via Venmo. In all honesty, we are both unemployed during this pandemic and could sincerely use any donation you can offer. Think of it like buying a latte for a friend when you can't leave your house. :)Venmo Donation Link: https://venmo.com/keylee-sudduth PayPal Donation Link: https://paypal.me/bobbilliams! Have a question or topic you want to discuss? Want to be a guest on the show? Reach out! Email us at keylee@bobbilliams.com or micah@bobbilliams.com. 

In this episode of Backsliders, we talk with our friend, the talented musician Julia Nunes. We met her in a yoga class four years ago and have been through *a lot* together. We talk with Julia about her experience growing up in upstate New York in a non-religious family, surrounded by churches. Other topics include: using art as a way to work through challenges, how feeling “not good enough" manifests, taking care of your body, going to therapy, why self-care isn’t selfish and the importance of healing—with other people. (Also, we live-plan another music video shoot together during this episode.)Note: We offer these podcasts freely because we love these conversations and find them to be healing. We hope you connect with them and maybe even feel less alone as you listen. If you enjoy our show and are able to give, we kindly ask for a donation of your choice via Venmo. Think of it like buying a latte for a friend when you can't leave your house. :) And if you can't give financially, please consider spending a minute leaving us a short review or sharing our show with a friend. Thank you so much for your support! Julia's LinksYouTubeUSED TO WANT music video (directed by us!)SpotifyInstagramFacebookPandoraWebsiteOur LinksInstagramFacebookTwitterKeylee InstagramMicah InstagramCreditsSound Mixing by Darren AugustusVideography and Photography by Claude CharlesIntro Music "7.2.19" by Chase BurnettOutro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia NunesTitle Animation/Poster art by Cody WalzelSpecial Thanks to Angie Charles Reach out! Have a question or topic you want to discuss? Want to be a guest on the show? Email us at keylee@bobbilliams.com or micah@bobbilliams.com.

In this episode of Backsliders, we talk with our kind and talented human friend Caleb Zlomke. Caleb was raised Evangelical Free and was encouraged to ask a lottttt of questions growing up, which he did—even during mandatory chapel in front of grades K through 12. We talk with him about how he was labeled "the bad kid" in school, his experience at the DIBIMI discipleship program where he traveled the country, and what he thinks about the intelligence of the universe. Other fun topics include televangelism, babbling in tongues, prescriptions and descriptions, and more. Caleb's LinksInstagramEtsy ShopOur LinksInstagramFacebookTwitterKeylee InstagramMicah InstagramCreditsSound Mixing by Darren AugustusVideography and Photography by Claude CharlesIntro Music "7.2.19" by Chase BurnettOutro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia NunesTitle Animation/Poster art by Cody WalzelSpecial Thanks to Angie Charles Reach out! Have a question or topic you want to discuss? Want to be a guest on the show? Email us at keylee@bobbilliams.com or micah@bobbilliams.com.

On this episode of Backsliders, we talk with our lovely and talented friend Nikki McKenzie. Nikki was raised Catholic and still goes to mass sometimes, but her beliefs about God have evolved in big ways over time. We talk with Nikki about the Catholic ritual of confession, her time as an altar boy, how diverse churches have way better choirs, and her cute habit of writing notes to Jesus as a kid. Other fun topics include past life regressions, “seasonal abstinence,” nightmares, and more.BONUS: Nikki also starred in our show Home! Watch all 6 episodes of this Tribeca Film Festival selected series by clicking the link below. She shows up in Episode Two and is there for the rest of the season. You'll love her character!Watch HOME.Nikki's LinksInstagram WebsiteOur LinksInstagramFacebookTwitterKeylee InstagramMicah InstagramCreditsSound Mixing by Darren AugustusVideography and Photography by Claude CharlesIntro Music "7.2.19" by Chase BurnettOutro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia NunesTitle Animation/Poster art by Cody WalzelSpecial Thanks to Angie Charles Reach out! Have a question or topic you want to discuss? Want to be a guest on the show? Email us at keylee@bobbilliams.com or micah@bobbilliams.com. 

On this episode of Backsliders, we talk with our dear friend and manager, the Emmy-award winning producer Paul Young. Paul’s dad is a descendant of Mormonism’s Brigham Young, but Paul was raised in a non-religious household by his amazing mother. We talk with Paul about the stories we tell ourselves, his takeaway from Christianity, honesty in parenting, and how loss is a necessary aspect of love. Other fun topics include the spirituality of A.A., the belief that time is not linear, our collective experience with "magical moments," and more.Update: Paul and his love Kathryn very recently got engaged!! We wish them a lifetime of happiness and love buzzes! Our LinksBacksliders the Scripted SeriesInstagramFacebookTwitterKeylee InstagramMicah InstagramCreditsSound Mixing by Darren AugustusIntro Music "7.2.19" by Chase BurnettOutro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia NunesTitle Animation/Poster art by Cody WalzelSpecial Thanks to Angie Charles Have a question or topic you want to discuss? Want to be a guest on the show? Email us at keylee@bobbilliams.com or micah@bobbilliams.com.

In this episode of Backsliders, we talk with our friend, talented writer/performer Mark Pryor. Mark grew up spending a lot of time outdoors in Virginia. His dad ran a Christian summer camp, and Mark was homeschooled until high school. We talk with Mark about his unique upbringing, his time at a Mennonite college, wearing camo, and taking a stance against church attendance since the age of 12. Mark's LinksInstagramYoutube Our LinksBacksliders the Scripted SeriesInstagramFacebookTwitterKeylee InstagramMicah Instagram CreditsSound Mixing by Darren AugustusVideography and Photography by Claude CharlesIntro Music "7.2.19" by Chase BurnettOutro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia NunesTitle Animation/Poster art by Cody WalzelSpecial Thanks to Angie Charles Reach out! Have a question or topic you want to discuss? Want to be a guest on the show? Email us at keylee@bobbilliams.com or micah@bobbilliams.com. 

In this episode, the multi-talented chosen one Jessie Kahnweiler takes over as the host of Backsliders and gets Keylee and Micah to delve deeper into their personal stories. Jessie also talks about her own spiritual journey, her experience interviewing Jewish communities all over Los Angeles, using filmmaking and storytelling to work through trauma, and how her family reacts to her projects. Other fun topics include purity culture, death, dating, and drugs.*TW*: This episode does include some discussion of eating disorders, rape, sexual and spiritual abuse. Jessie's LinksFollow Jessie on InstagramFollow Jessie on TwitterWatch Jessie on YoutubeVisit Jessie's Website Our LinksBacksliders the Scripted SeriesInstagramFacebookTwitterKeylee InstagramMicah Instagram CreditsSound Mixing by Darren AugustusVideography and Photography by Claude CharlesIntro Music "7.2.19" by Chase BurnettOutro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia NunesTitle Animation/Poster art by Cody WalzelSpecial Thanks to Angie Charles Reach out! Have a question or topic you want to discuss? Want to be a guest on the show? Email us at keylee@bobbilliams.com or micah@bobbilliams.com. 

In this episode of Backsliders, we talk with our friend, the talented photographer, videographer, retro clothing company owner and overall great human Claude Charles. Claude is Jamaican/Haitian-American and grew up in Florida. We talk about his experience in Christian schools, how the movie “Death and Beyond” scared the hell out of him, his interest in aliens and UFOs, the connection between Christianity and colonialism, and the power of changing your environment. Other fun topics we touch on: Street Sharks, Harry Potter, evangelical wrestling, and more. *Micah swapped the meaning of Calvinist and Armenian thought, whoops!Fun fact - Claude and his love Angie record all video for these podcasts!To watch our narrative show Home that Claude references in the beginning of our talk, click here.Claude LinksWebsiteInstagramRetro Candy ClothingTop Notch Bod by AngOur LinksBacksliders the Scripted SeriesInstagramFacebookTwitterKeylee InstagramMicah InstagramCreditsSound Mixing by Darren AugustusVideography and Photography by Claude CharlesIntro Music "7.2.19" by Chase BurnettOutro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia NunesTitle Animation/Poster art by Cody WalzelSpecial Thanks to Angie Charles Reach out! Have a question or topic you want to discuss? Want to be a guest on the show? Email us at keylee@bobbilliams.com or micah@bobbilliams.com.

In this episode of Backsliders, we talk with our friend, the talented writer and comedian Yoni Weinberg. Yoni grew up in Los Angeles in a loving Jewish family. We talk with him about his upbringing, Jewish traditions and teachings, different types of synagogues, the value of community and structure, and the Jewish term for backsliding. Other fun topics we touch on: veganism, the pope-line, where Steven Spielberg’s mom works, and more. Follow Yoni Weinberg Our LinksBacksliders the Scripted SeriesInstagramFacebookTwitterKeylee InstagramMicah Instagram CreditsSound Mixing by Darren AugustusVideography and Photography by Claude CharlesIntro Music 7.2.19 by Chase BurnettOutro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia NunesTitle Animation by Cody WalzelSpecial Thanks Angie Charles  Reach out! Have a question or topic you want to discuss? Want to be a guest on the show? Email us at keylee@bobbilliams.com or micah@bobbilliams.com. 

In this episode of Backsliders, we talk with our friend, the talented musician Chase Burnett. Chase grew up near Dallas, Texas in a Jesus-loving family. For years, he dedicated his life to the church and was even a worship band leader. We talk about his upbringing, how his beliefs evolved, and where he is today. Other fun topics we touch on: angels, hell, masturbation, Christian sex-ed, and more. All music for Backsliders was made by Chase! If you want to hear more of his work, click the links below. Chase Burnett LinksSpotifyBandcampYoutube ChannelInstagram Our LinksBacksliders the Youtube SeriesBob Billiams Productions Youtube ChannelInstagramFacebookTwitter CreditsSound Mixing by Darren AugustusVideography and Photography by Claude CharlesIntro Music "7.2.19" by Chase BurnettOutro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia NunesTitle Animation by Cody WalzelSpecial Thanks Angie Charles Have a question or topic you want to discuss? Want to be a guest on the show? Email us at keylee@bobbilliams.com or micah@bobbilliams.com.

Micah was born into a Christian cult. Keylee grew up in a megachurch. In this very first episode, we talk about how we stepped away from organized religion in order to become our healthiest selves. We discuss shame that still clings even after our beliefs have changed, what we can learn from examining pain, and letting go of what other people think to claim who we really are. We think a lot of growth can come from talking about things honestly. Thanks for listening.Like this? Watch our narrative series Backsliders. CreditsSound Mixing by Darren AugustusVideography and Photography by Claude Charles Intro Music 7.2.19 by Chase Burnett Outro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia NunesTitle Animation by Cody WalzelSpecial Thanks Angie Charles Our StuffBob Billiams Productions Youtube@thebobbilliams on Instagram@thebobbilliams Facebook page@thebobbilliams on Twitter  Have a question or topic you want to discuss? Want to be a guest on the show? Email us at keylee@bobbilliams.com or micah@bobbilliams.com.