Podcasts about Sunday school

Overcoming   1 John 5:4 This is the victory that overcomes the world, even our faith.   2 Corinthians 2:14 But thanks be unto God, who always causes us to triumph in Christ   Introduction:  As we enter 2026, we are going to explore the word Overcoming! How do you overcome (fill in the blank)?   Henry Ford "Failure is simply the opportunity to begin again, this time more intelligently"   Proposition:  It is God's plan that we overcome every issue we face in our marriage and family and minstry. Here are four essentials The Word of God - what does the Bible say Use of proven methods but is not a proven method  and is a failed method but is a failed method Gentle parenting sounds so "cool"  Cohabitation sounds plausible  Use of proven resources Connection classes, Sunday School, life groups, etc Worship Preaching Counseling Books are a gift from God that most people never take advantage of When it comes marriage and family issues, you cannot get the help you need in video snippets and fast-paced graphics The church The investment of right steps over a long period of time Time is required to do the work Time is required to seek God through His Word in prayer Time is required for a continual application of right steps Time is required to develope new habits Time is required to make changes Time is required to sow seeds that can grow and bring fruit    

Sunday School

Pastor J. Bryant Lagoe Sunday School 1/4/26

Song List:1- There's Something About That NameTeacher: Bro. Michael OdenScripture: Genesis 1:31

In this episode, the focus is on clergy abuse—a topic made even more pressing by recent headlines. The featured guest, Sandy Phillips Kirkham, shares her harrowing ordeal of being abused by a charismatic youth pastor starting at the age of 16. Sandy discusses the grooming process, the five years of abuse, and how she was ultimately expelled from her church while her abuser was merely relocated. She delves into the long-lasting impact of the abuse on her life and her spiritual journey, how she concealed her trauma for 27 years, and how she ultimately confronted her abuser. Sandy also provides valuable insights and actionable advice for preventing abuse and supporting victims within church communities. Her story is also detailed in her book, ‘Let Me Prey on You,' which offers a detailed account of her journey from victim to advocate. 00:00 Introduction and Sponsor Message 00:47 Welcome to the Podcast 01:32 Introducing Today's Topic: Clergy Abuse 02:17 Sandy Phillips Kirkham's Early Life and Church Involvement 06:22 Meeting the Abuser: The Charismatic Youth Pastor 08:43 Red Flags and Grooming Tactics 13:51 The First Inappropriate Act 16:37 The Abuse Escalates 21:06 The Aftermath and Church's Response 28:15 Life After Abuse: Marriage and Keeping Secrets 32:09 Protecting Future Generations 35:17 The Importance of Sex Education in the Church 36:32 Techniques for Discussing Sex with Children 37:22 Personal Experiences with Sex Education 38:20 Triggering Memories and Emotional Breakdown 40:13 The Journey of Healing Begins 41:31 Understanding Clergy Abuse and Self-Forgiveness 43:52 Confronting the Abuser 47:07 Challenges in Seeking Justice 54:47 Preventing Abuse in the Church 01:00:31 Supporting Victims of Clergy Abuse 01:05:07 Final Thoughts and Resources Sandy Kirkham and her husband Bill enjoy life with their two grown children, two beautiful granddaughters, and two fairly well-behaved dogs. Sandy continues to use her voice to help victims of clergy abuse. She currently serves on the board of Council Against Child Abuse. Sandy has spoken before the Ohio Senate, a Maryland court, and appeared on a local television show in Boston. Her story, “Stolen Innocence,” was told in a documentary produced by The Hope of Survivors. Sandy works with survivors conducting victim support conferences. She has participated in The Voice of the Faithful (VOTF) panels moderated by SNAP (Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests), sharing her perspective from the non-Catholic point of view. Sandy has been a presenter/speaker at major events on clergy abuse including the Hope & Healing Conference. Sandy has earned a certificate of completion from the Faith Trust Institute entitled, “A Sacred Trust: Boundary Issues for Clergy and Spiritual Teachers.” https://sandyphillipskirkham.com/ https://www.facebook.com/KirkhamAuthor/  sandykirkhamauthor@gmail.com  Purchase her book “Let Me Prey Upon You” on amazon: https://sandyphillipskirkham.com/shop/let-me-prey-upon-you/   Link Tree   Website: https://dswministries.org Subscribe to the podcast: https://dswministries.org/subscribe-to-podcast/ Social media links: Join our Private Wounds of the Faithful FB Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1603903730020136 Twitter: https://twitter.com/DswMinistries YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxgIpWVQCmjqog0PMK4khDw/playlists Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dswministries/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DSW-Ministries-230135337033879 Keep in touch with me! Email subscribe to get my handpicked list of the best resources for abuse survivors! https://thoughtful-composer-4268.ck.page #abuse #trauma Affiliate links: Our Sponsor: 753 Academy: https://www.753academy.com/ Can't travel to The Holy Land right now? The next best thing is Walking The Bible Lands! Get a free video sample of the Bible lands here! https://www.walkingthebiblelands.com/a/18410/hN8u6LQP An easy way to help my ministry: https://dswministries.org/product/buy-me-a-cup-of-tea/ A donation link: https://dswministries.org/donate/   Sandy Phillips Kirkham [00:00:00] Special thanks to 7 5 3 Academy for sponsoring this episode. No matter where you are in your fitness and health journey, they've got you covered. They specialize in helping you exceed your health and fitness goals, whether that is losing body fat, gaining muscle, or nutritional coaching to match your fitness levels. They do it all with a written guarantee for results so you don't waste time and money on a program that doesn't exceed your goals. There are martial arts programs. Specialize in anti-bullying programs for kids to combat proven Filipino martial arts. They take a holistic, fun, and innovative approach that simply works. Sign up for your free class now. It's 7 5 3 academy.com. Find the link in the show notes. Welcome to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast, brought to you by DSW Ministries. Your host is singer songwriter, speaker and domestic violence advocate, [00:01:00] Diana Winkler. She is passionate about helping survivors in the church heal from domestic violence and abuse and trauma. This podcast is not a substitute for professional counseling or qualified medical help. Now here is Diana. Hello. Welcome everyone. Welcome to my regular listeners, as well as some new listeners that have joined us today. I have a great guest for you today. We're going to be talking about clergy abuse today. Religious leader, abuse. Pastor, youth leader. You've seen this in the news recently with all these preachers being arrested or charged with sexual misconduct or rape or [00:02:00] pedophilia. I'm sure you've seen the news. Well, today we're going to hear a story about a woman who's been victimized in that way and she's fighting back. So let me read her bio for you. A church is where an insecure 16-year-old girl should feel welcome, happy, and most importantly, safe tragically. For some, the church can become a place of great harm. Sandy Phillips Kirkham details her account of how charismatic youth minister preyed upon her, a betrayal which left her broken with a shattered faith and the ultimate shame of being blamed enforced from the church she loved. Despite a successful and happy life, is a wife, mother, and friend. Sandy successfully concealed her abuse for [00:03:00] 27 years until a trigger forced her to face the truth. Sandy's story will take you on her journey of healing. Her strength and courage will inspire you. Let me pray upon you her book details. Sandy's journey from innocent 16-year-old, a victim to a survivor, and advocate. We please welcome Sandy Phillips. Kirk, welcome Sandy to the show. Thanks so much for coming on. Well, thank you for having me. I'm glad to be here. Wow. So I've been listening to you on the Preacher Boys podcast and thought you had a really great story, and so I wanted to come and bring you on so my listeners can hear your story as well. Mm-hmm. So tell us a little bit about your home and your church environment growing up. Let's [00:04:00] start from the beginning here. Okay. I'm the oldest of five. My parents were divorced when I was about seven, which that was really the impact of my life, of just how it altered everything about that time in my life. Then my mother remarried and we moved in with my stepfather shortly after my father remarried, and so I was dealing with these blended families and it was just very confusing for me at the time, my parents and stepfather did not attend church. So I, I wasn't a part of a church until I was about eight, and that's when my best friend who lived up the street invited me to go with their family, and I went with them and I went every Sunday after that, I absolutely fell in love with church. It was a place that I felt safe. I think it provided for me a place away from home that I felt comfortable and I got attention there. I was very active even as a small child. I went to vacation Bible school, church camp, love Sunday School. I sang in a junior choir. Really, it was a just a great place for me to [00:05:00] be. When I was 13, I was baptized and then my faith really deepened and my involvement in the church became even more so, started teaching Sunday school and teaching vacation Bible school. I started serving on committees with adults and doing more of the activities that would, , just be more in depth than just typical youth group activities. So, it's just no exaggeration to say that if the doors of the church were open, I was there and I loved it. I loved serving God. I felt that was the place for me, and everything about it was brought me joy and peace in the church. Wow. You really, were very sincere in your faith. It was not a fake one. I hear a lot of stories of. Being brought up in the church and being made to go to church and, you just go through the motions kind of thing. But it sounds like it was the opposite for you. It was that you really believed this with all your heart. Was that a fundamental Baptist church you were going [00:06:00] to or what? It was a church, Christ Christian Church, which is similar to the Baptist. It's an independent church. Yeah, that's the church. That was so something happened while you were serving the Lord and loving God. You met your abuser? Yes. Shortly after I turned 16, our church hired a new youth pastor, and from the moment he arrived, he was totally different than anyone we'd ever seen before. He was very charismatic, very dynamic. His sermons were really like nothing we'd ever heard before, and people were just drawn to him. He had a personality that people found themselves wanting to be around him. They wanted to please him. So he was very good at asking people to do things and they didn't hesitate. It, it was just a different kind of atmosphere. When he came to the church, the youth group exploded in numbers. We went from like 25 to almost 200 in a very short time. Even the [00:07:00] adult church was growing because people just came to hear him preach because he was so good at what he did. He was 30, married with two children, but he really acted more like our age group. He dressed like we did. He. Went to our football games at school, he knew our music. So he just, he really, he was tuned into us and in return we found ourselves, all of us being willing to please him and wanna do anything we could to make the youth group and the church better. So when people think of a profile of a child abuser, they usually think, oh, some dirty old man, that his roaming fingers or what have you, but this youth pastor sounded like, okay, he was really good looking and hip and really loved the young people. Mm-hmm. Is that typical of. Well, it's, it's typical in the sense that it's not the, dirty old man hiding in the bushes. Most abusers [00:08:00] are people we know. They're people that we like. They're usually people that, connect with people very well, and that's what makes them so dangerous because they're not obvious with what they do, and they're very good at that. They pretend to be one of us. They pretend to care, but in reality, their goal is to find a way to take advantage of the most vulnerable in, in the group. And so, predators are usually drawn to places where they will find vulnerable people. The gymnastics team is an example of that. The Boy Scouts, anywhere where you can, and certainly the church because we are welcoming into people who are in need. Oftentimes. Then there are many people in the church who are vulnerable to these types of men, and sometimes women. Were there any red flags? That you should have seen or noticed when you were around this youth pastor? Well, he came with so many different ideas and different ways of doing things. And one of the things that he was doing now, this was in the [00:09:00] seventies, so cultures were changing and it was free love and kind of thing. But he came into our church and he expected everyone to hug each other. So we were always hugging each other. And he also expected us to say how much we loved each other and that we love you and not just that I love you in Christ. He would simply walk up, give you a hug and say, I love you. Now you know, that may seem innocent, but that's a little odd for that pastor to be saying those kinds of things. And it also blurs the lines because when you say to someone, I love you, that can be confusing to. Young teenagers and even to vulnerable adults. So, but he did that with everybody. It wasn't like he picked someone else special, but, so the hugging in the contact was kind of a red flag in the beginning. But for me personally, I babysat for his family. His wife worked evenings. Mm-hmm. So one night after he came home, he asked me to go to his basement and listen to a song by Neil Diamond. [00:10:00] Well, it felt a little weird 'cause I'd never. I've been around a pastor that wanted to talk to me about anything but church in the Bible. But I went to the basement. Yeah. I mean a Neil Diamond song. So I went to the basement. I know, but that's a trigger factor for me sometimes. So anyway, I went to the basement and he put this record on and I sat down on the couch and instead of sitting in a chair or another place, he came on the couch and sat very close to me. And I remember feeling uncomfortable, but I didn't say anything. 'cause I thought, well, he is just sitting next to me. It's no big deal. But that's a red flag that I felt because it felt uncomfortable to me. And then the other times that I would babysit for him. His wife wouldn't come home till late in the evening, so he would come home around seven or eight and after the kids were in bed, instead of taking me home, he wanted me to sit and talk with him all evening. So we'd talk about the Bible or we'd talk about church, and sometimes he'd ask me what I thought of his [00:11:00] sermon, which at age 16, I'm flattered that this man has any idea that I would have some opinion about this great sermon that he just gave. So I didn't see anything wrong with that because he's my pastor. But had that occurred with my 30-year-old neighbor down the street, every time I went to babysit, I know I would've come home to my mother and said, okay, this is weird. Mm-hmm. Every time I babysit, this man wants to sit and talk to me all evening. I mean, what interest would I have as a teenager wanting to talk to this 30-year-old married man? But because my pastor was who he was and he tapped into our common connection of the church and God, and again, many times he would give me books to read 'cause he wanted me to get better in my deep, in my spirituality. So I didn't see anything wrong with it because of who he was. And so I just accepted that behavior, which is another tool and technique. They look for ways to get into you. Mm-hmm. [00:12:00] That don't seem obvious. And that was, so those were two red flags for me. Now as far as the congregation goes, I was in his office a lot by myself, but so were other kids, because he would actually call us into his office and say, I want you to come in and tell me what's going on in your life. Talk to me about your problems. Instead of us going to him, he would encourage us to come into his office. So while that probably wasn't a good thing, no one saw it as a bad thing. It seemed normal, but he called me into his office a lot more than the other kids. And later on there were people who did say to me, there were times when I wondered why he said something to you like that, or I noticed something one time. And so I think people notice some things, but no one thought enough of it to say, okay, there's something going on that doesn't seem right. So those were the red flags that I think in the beginning were very subtle. But they were hard to see, [00:13:00] and this is really important to distinguish these things because I was groomed by a guidance counselor in seventh grade. Mm-hmm. But he was one of those dirty old men that, he was doing creepy stuff. Yeah. But I never would have seen myself. A pastor and he's talking about spiritual things and he's talking about God and mm-hmm. He's not talking about sex. He's not watching, you're not watching dirty movies together. No, he's not, buying you sexy lingerie. It's, Hey, he's doing spiritual things. Mm-hmm. It's a setup. It's that grooming process you're talking about. It's pulling someone in to gain their trust, in a very di diabolical way, because he's using the church to do that. That's really scary. That scares mm-hmm. Scares me to death. What were the first times that he did something really inappropriate that you were just like, whoa? Well, the very [00:14:00] first time, was after a youth group meeting that was held in my home. I was the song leader. He put me in a leadership position, and it was very important to him that the evening always go well and that we were to make people feel welcome. And so at the end of the evening, I was nervous because I wanted to make sure that he thought everything went well. And he came up to me in my hallway and began telling me how great the evening was and how proud he was of me. And I was on Cloud nine. I was flattered that he felt that way. I felt good that the evening went so well. And then he just slowly bent down and he kissed me. And it wasn't, it was a kiss, but it seemed somewhat innocent to some extent. And I, I remember thinking, I think he just kissed me. Then my next thought was, well, he's my pastor and I don't think he would be doing anything he shouldn't be doing. And it was just a quick kiss. And he's always hugging people. And so maybe this is just his way of showing his appreciation for the evening. It was really [00:15:00] the only way in my 16-year-old mind that I could justify it because I couldn't think about this man doing anything he shouldn't be doing. And this was a person that everyone loved and thought so highly of, so how could I think he was doing something he shouldn't be doing? So I just let it go. I didn't think anything more about it. I mean, did you have any sex ed or anything? Did you know the birds and bees? Nine. Well, yeah, I'm 16. I did. Yeah, I did. But I wasn't, I hadn't dated much. I wasn't allowed to date till I was 16, so I hadn't had any dating experience. I had one kiss before this with a boy at camp. So I wasn't. Worldly or knowledgeable about all those things. But, and again, it was such a quick innocent type kiss. He didn't grab me, he didn't push me against the wall. I just, and again, I think for me it was okay if he's, if this is more than just a kiss, then what do I do with it? So therefore I'm just gonna say it's [00:16:00] nothing because I don't know what else to do. Um, wow. I let it go. I let it go. But as I babysat for him, he, sometimes when I would leave, he would kiss me and sometimes he wouldn't. So, I didn't see it as a con, kind of a continual thing that he was always wanting to kiss me. He always hugged me. But the kissing became more intense as it went along. So it, it would be another year, before he would have sex with me. And so that grooming process and kind of pushing the boundaries each time he was with me, finally ended with him having sex with me. Oh, wow. Now, some of us listening are like an adult having sex with a child or 16-year-old. Can you unpack that a little bit more, the process of how he got to that point? I mean, that the first time you had intercourse, I mean, did he, you know, go to a hotel with you and you had a candlelight dinner, or was it in the backseat of the car?[00:17:00] Was it an accident? It wasn't an accident. He was very deliberate and I had every intentions of having sex with me that night. I babysat, I was babysitting, I put the kids to bed, I walked down the steps. I assumed that we would go into the living room. Or the family room, sit on the couch and talk about the things we always talked about. But instead, he stopped me at the bottom of the stairs and he took me into the living room, and immediately put me on the floor and began undressing me. Um, and wow, I froze. I, I literally froze and I kept thinking to myself, he's going to stop. He's going to stop. And that the entire time he's whispering into my ear how much he loves me, that he would never hurt me, and that he can, I can trust him. And then he kept asking me, do you love me? Do you love me? And I, of course, I'm answering yes, because well, yes I do, because that's what I've told him for the past year. I, I, I just, I was so confused and what my real reaction was, I froze. Mm-hmm. Um, he, he sort of pushed my head under the [00:18:00] stereo. And so when he is starting to get farther than I thought he would ever go. I blocked, I just blocked it out and I started reading the serial numbers underneath the stereo. Oh my goodness. Just to be thinking of anything else. Um, at one point he then just picked me up and took me upstairs. He literally put me on the bed, penetrated me, and that was it. And I was horrified. I was absolutely horrified. I, I wanted to cry. I didn't know what to say. I didn't know what to do. Um, he left the room, told me to get dressed, and he would take me home. And I remember sitting on the bed and I put the bedspread around me because I was so embarrassed that I didn't have my clothes on. Mm-hmm. Oh, wow. Um, and then I just remember thinking I just had sex. I'm no longer a virgin. I just had sex with this man and. He took me home. Now, in the [00:19:00] book, of course, I go into a little bit more detail, but Right, he took me home and just before I got outta the car, he said to me, now, you know, this is something between the two of us, you can't tell anyone. And of course I'm thinking, who would I tell? I, I don't want anybody to know. I just did this. So, that was the first time. And then I think I, at that point I kept thinking, you know, I've had sex with him. So now I'm committed to him again. I'm at this point, I'm 17 years old. I'm still like, what do I do with this? I don't, I don't know what to do with this. Um, and he was convincing me that he loved me. He was convincing me that he needed me in his ministry and that God, this was God's will in our lives. He threw that at me. Eventually he would say to me that we were married in God's eyes. I mean, twisting the scripture and using God as a reason that we should be together. And so. I started to accept that. There were a couple times I went to him and told him that I couldn't do this anymore. I felt [00:20:00] guilty. He would respond in one of two ways. One, he would say to me how much he needed me, how much he loved me, and that he couldn't live without me. So that was the guilt part of it. Or he would respond and by saying to me, you know, you're no longer a virgin. No one else is gonna want you. I'm the only one that knows how to love you, and you are committed to me, and this is gonna be the way it is. And I saw no way out. I didn't see a way out. And so the relationship continued for five years. Wow. Five years. It went on for five years. That is a long time. And it, during that time, he became more aggressive physically. Uh, he hit me. He became sexually more deviant. It just progressed. It got worse and worse. And to a point that I finally, I was, my self-esteem was so low. I hated myself for what I'd been doing. So I finally just accepted that this was my life. I knew [00:21:00] I'd never get married. I knew I'd never have children, and this wouldn't be over until he said it was over. This went on for five years and nobody in the church noticed it. Your parents didn't notice it. You know, people say, well, where were your parents? Well, first of all, my parents were thrilled. I was in church. I mean, this was a time in the seventies when drugs were. Prevalent girls were, having free sex. So for them, what safer place could there be than to be in church? So, and they saw his intention toward me and his involvement with me as a good thing. I mean, he would take me on hospital visits with him. I mean, they saw this as being positive. And they knew how much I loved being there and that it was a place that I liked to go. So they didn't see it. And many in the church didn't see it began because who suspects the pastor of such behavior. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And especially in the seventies when this wasn't an open topic like it is now, you wouldn't have dared thought anything like that. And so [00:22:00] it's not uncommon for people in the church, to miss the signs and to ignore what they really do see, because they just can't believe that it would be something that would be happening in their church because then they'd have to do something about it. Yes, exactly. When did it all come crumbling down? It does crumble. Eventually it does. Two elders became suspicious and followed him one night and found us together in a hotel room. And then from then on, the next month and a half was an absolute nightmare for me. Hmm. It was initially hoped that they could keep what he had done, quiet and keep it from the congregation. Now, I have to say one thing before I forget. This wasn't his first incident of sexual misconduct. Oh. Prior to and just after he was awri, he arrived at our church. A young woman from his first church came forward and accused him of sexual misconduct. When he was [00:23:00] confronted by my elders, he didn't deny it. He said it was true. He asked for forgiveness, that it would never happen again. It was a mistake. So within six months. That's when he was kissing me in my hallway. So this, so these elders were aware that this was the second time that there had been an incident with this man of sexual abuse and misconduct. But in spite of that, they tried to keep it quiet in hopes of moving him to another church. And so I was told during that time where I was to sit, how I was to respond to questions. I wasn't to talk to anyone. I wasn't to tell anyone about what had happened, including my parents. And this was all in an effort to keep it quiet. Well, that effort failed. And so it was determined that he should address the congregation. He did it in a very vague way, just simply said that he'd sinned. He'd sinned against God, and he'd sinned against his wife. And that was his confession. That was it. Two days later, he had me meet [00:24:00] him in a hotel room after that confession in front of the congregation. Now. He was moved to the next church. He was given a going away party. There was actually a vote to maybe keep him, but the vote failed and they decided to move him to the next church. About, two weeks, three weeks later, I was called in by the elders, and this is probably the hardest part of my story for me. Mm-hmm. I was called in by the elders and I was told that because of my behavior I was to leave the church. I was devastated. I loved that church. It was the only church I knew, and here I was being told by these two elders that I wasn't fit to worship there any longer. Mm-hmm. He could be forgiven and given a second, third chance. I couldn't be, I was told that to leave the church. I wasn't given any counseling. I wasn't helped in any way. I was simply told to leave and I did. I left. [00:25:00] And that I told people many times, as horrific as the abuse was, having been told to leave, that church had a greater impact on me spiritually than the actual abuse did. I don't think I ever recovered from that. It still haunts me to this day to some extent. That response of the church really devastated me. So that was the crumbling, as you called it? It came crashing down and I would, I left the church. So did that change your perception of God? What was your relationship with God this time? Yes. You were kicked outta the church, but. Well, I felt a disconnect from God. I never blamed God. I never felt like God caused this to happen. I, in fact, I carry the blame and the shame. I felt guilty for what I had done. And so I never blamed God, but because of the relationship being tied in with God and the [00:26:00] prayers that this man would give, and then, you know, he'd give these wonderful sermons about marriage and sanctity of marriage on a Sunday morning after having sex with me the night before. I had difficulty separating all of that, and there were so many trigger factors associated with the church and prayer that God really did. It was hard for me to have any kind of relationship with God. I did. I didn't become an atheist like a lot of victims do, and who become angry at God. I simply just. I just put him on the back burner. I knew he existed, but I didn't have a connection with him any longer. So for 27 years, I, I never prayed. I never opened my Bible. I went to church because when I met my husband, he was a Methodist. And I thought, well, I'll go to the Methodist Church. It's a different denomination. Mm-hmm. I'll just go on. It should be fine. It didn't work that way. I had anxiety attacks in church. I, his [00:27:00] reminders of him were constant, but I forced myself to go. I made sure that I went because I knew when we had children, I wanted them to have that church experience. But every time I walked past the minister's office, I got a knot in my stomach. Oh yeah. It had nothing to do with that minister. But you understand that. I mean, it, but I did that for 27 years. It became my norm. I just knew that when I walked past that office, I was gonna get a knock my stomach, certain hymns. I can tell you what his favorite hymn was, and every time that was played, that's who I thought of. I couldn't pray. It was so, I did have a deep, deep disconnect for 27 years, and I have to tell you, I missed it. I actually mourn that loss of my spiritual life, but I didn't know how to get it back. Because I'm keeping this secret. I'm still carrying guilt and shame. I couldn't forgive myself. I didn't feel worthy to be in church. So with all of that mixed in, I just put myself on autopilot and said, [00:28:00] well, this is the way my life will be and I'll just have to accept it. It just sounds so unfair. Somebody that loves the Lord so much and served in the church and so innocent and being kicked out. Oh, but it sounded like maybe meeting your husband would've been a positive thing for you. How did you guys meet? I actually worked at his office, so I met him there. We dated for about two years, and I just found him to be a kind, loving soul. He was very unassuming. He wasn't arrogant. He didn't, he wasn't a boastful type of person. He didn't like taking credit for things, even though he deserved it sometimes. He was just a good hearted person, and I just, I fell in love with him immediately. I really did. I thought this was a great, great guy. I mean, I will tell you, I have said many times because before I met him, I was on a destructive path. I did not have any self-esteem. [00:29:00] I saw myself just simply as some sex object that, I was only good for that. And so when I met him, he saved my life because he loved me for who I was and showed me that I was worthy. So I've often said to him, you saved my life, and he will respond back with you made mine, and you can't get any better than that. So meeting him was a turning point for me, but I kept a secret from him for 27 years, and I lived in fear that he'd always find out that I'd had this affair with a married man. And I know in my heart that it wouldn't have made a difference to him. But people who've been abused never forget the words, don't ever tell. And I never forgot those words. And I never forgot what the consequences could be if I were to tell someone. Because when my elders found out, they blamed me. And I, I couldn't bear the thought that if I were to tell him. [00:30:00] Somehow he would find fault with me, or I wondered, would he wonder why I didn't feel confident enough to tell him? Would he feel betrayed that I kept a secret? Would he see me differently sexually? All those fears that I had while unfounded were still present in my mind. And so I never could tell him. And I had to do a lot of play acting and pretending, through our married life in the sense that the times I was having trigger factors, I had to hide them. And I know he would've been supportive, but I couldn't see that. Because while trauma affects you at the time of the abuse, it's lifelong. It doesn't leave you. And so I lived with that for 27 years. So did you have. Intimacy issues when you were together? Was that what you're talking about? The triggering? No, I, know a lot of victims do, and that's understandable. I really didn't, because he was so different from my abuser [00:31:00] and I recognized that my abuser was emotionally violent mm-hmm. And physically, he just wasn't loving in any sense of the word. I was simply used for sex. Mm-hmm. And I didn't have that with my husband. And so I could separate that a little bit. But I think the guilt of hiding the secret had an impact on our marriage as far as my able to be intimate with him in an emotional way. I'm really glad to hear that. I, you are not the first person that I've heard that. The victim has hidden a secret from her husband. I passed her and a pastor's wife and her husband did not know. Mm-hmm. Children didn't know, and it was a family member that was the abuser. And I kept telling her, you've got to tell him. Mm-hmm. You know why? It's because, and I was thinking this when I was listening to your, the other shows that you were on. I'm thinking about your children and your grandchildren. If I was abused, [00:32:00] I would be like. How do I keep my children and grandchildren from going through what I just went through, you know? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well, that's an interesting thing because most people would assume that my daughter, I would've been all over it and worried sick every time she left the house. Yeah. But I actually had the opposite, reaction because keep in mind, I didn't see myself as an abuse victim. I saw myself as someone who participated, who willingly went into this relationship and stayed in it willingly, which is not the case when you're abused. There's the control, the manipulation, all of those things that play into keeping a victim in a relationship and they see no way out. So for me, I just assumed I got one bad apple in the whole barrel, that this didn't happen to other people and that I had an affair. But my daughter, who I knew, she would never have an affair with a married man, I just knew that. So I. Sent her on [00:33:00] retreats. I sent her to church camp without fear because again, I'm thinking, okay, this just doesn't happen to other people and this is not something I need to be concerned about with her. However, with my granddaughters, it's totally different because now I understand what really occurred and the damage that can occur when you've been abused. And so with my granddaughters, her mom and dad have talked to them, about good touch, bad touch. And I too have talked about to her, but I've been a little bit more probably detailed about it. Mm-hmm. And as she gets older, these men, the techniques change as you get older and they, after they go after teenage girls, so mm-hmm. Hopefully I'll be able to help her understand, what happens when someone's grooming. I want her to understand her personal space, that if you're not comfortable when someone hugs you, it's okay. That's right. Say I, I don't want you to touch me that way. Mm-hmm. Or say if they don't feel comfortable and we put a lot on kids to do that. 'cause here [00:34:00] we're asking a child to say to an adult, no. Mm-hmm. So it's okay to go to your mother or your mom and say, can you tell so and so Uncle Jimmy or whoever it is, I don't wanna be hugged. So we need to make sure our kids understand that their personal space is their space. And if they don't want someone in that space, it's okay to say no. I also think it's important to tell kids that good people can do bad things. Yeah. Because, as we talked about earlier, our abusers are not strangers. They're not mean people. Mm-hmm. They're usually good people. They're usually people who've given us gifts. They're people who help us. They're people who tell us how wonderful we are. So it's hard for children, even adults, to see this individual who. Who on one side is a good individual who does a lot in the church, who's done all these wonderful things. And so we, we have to tell these kids, just because they're a good person doesn't mean they can't do bad things. And so that's kind of the message I hope to get to my granddaughters that I didn't give to my [00:35:00] daughter. And fortunately she didn't have any issues with church or any, anybody abusing her. But I certainly did not, guide her in the right way in that sense because I just, like I said, I just assumed that I was the only one that this would ever have happened to. Well, I think, I hear a lot in the church that they don't teach sex ed because they don't want the kids to go out and have sex. Mm-hmm. And so a lot of these kids are like ignorant as to, what is healthy and what is not proper, yeah. We need to teach 'em that our bodies or are going to respond. They were built that way. God intended us to have feelings. You know, when we are around the opposite sex, that's normal. Mm-hmm. So we need to make sure kids understand. But there are barriers and there are boundaries that need to be taken. But you're absolutely right when we don't talk at it, then we figure it out on their own. And we could, we can all imagine when you're leaving teenagers to [00:36:00] their own devices to figure out things. That's probably not gonna lead in a good spot. No, we have the internet now, which when we, right. When you and I were younger, we didn't have the internet. We didn't have cell phones. No. If you wanted a Playboy magazine, you had to go to that kind of a neighborhood to get something. Yes. You know? Yes. It was a lot more difficult. Yes, absolutely. But too many parents are embarrassed to talk to their children about sex and, you know, everybody listening needs to listen. You need to find a way to talk to them about these things. And one of the techniques that I use with my daughter, just in talking about sex in general, kids don't want to hear their mom and dad talk to 'em about this. So what I did would say, I read a magazine article about this girl who did such and such so that I put it off on something else that's, a non-entity of a person. And I'll say, or Have you ever heard of this? And of course I know she's got a little embarrassed, but I, it opened the dialogue without me coming [00:37:00] out and saying, have you heard of oral sex? Instead, I would talk to her and say, I heard this about this. This is what kids are doing, blah, blah, blah. So you kind of have to find techniques and ways to sneak around it sometimes, but you absolutely need to talk to, because they know it's out there and they're going to experiment. That's just part of being a teenager. Yeah, my parents chickened out. They just gave me a book to read. Same, probably the same book. I got, I forget what it was called. Where did I come from? Or something. It was a cartoon book. Mm-hmm. And I'm grateful for that. And, they just, after I finished the book, do you have any questions? Yeah, yeah. I had a lot of, older people that were friends and I would actually go to my older. Senior citizen friends and ask them questions rather than ask my parents. Right? Yeah, yeah. It's more comfortable that way for sure. Like I said, it's not the topic that we like to talk to with our kids and our kids don't wanna hear it, but being uncomfortable is not an excuse not to do that. And in school you get [00:38:00] the basics of the mechanics of it, but then that ends, that's all you get there as well. And that's not as helpful either. Yeah. The sixth grade menstrual cycle, health class. Yeah, exactly. That's it. They separate the girls and the boys. Yeah. We were all really embarrassed and Yes, yes. Yeah, exactly. Great information. So let's, circle around back to, okay, you've been hiding this secret forever. Mm-hmm. And nobody knows about your past. And then one day you got triggered. So what happened that day? Well, that's the first chapter of my book, and that is one day I was driving to a golf tournament in Tennessee. We live in Cincinnati. I was driving, my daughter was in college. She was playing in a golf tournament. I was driving down there and I was about halfway when I saw an exit sign for the town of Kingsport, Tennessee. And that is the. Town to which my [00:39:00] abuser was sent after he left our church, and it just sent me over the edge. Mm-hmm. All of a sudden I'm thinking, I'm in the town where he lives. Am I close to his house? Am I close to the church where he's now a minister? I mean, even though it'd been 27 years, I thought he was probably still there. I didn't know, but that's what my mind was telling me. I, all of a sudden I felt his presence in the car. I, I could smell him. I could hear him. Oh. I was, it was unbelievable to me what was happening to me. I didn't even know what was happening. I pulled to the side of the road Oh, good. And I sobbed. Yeah. I sobbed for about 20 minutes and I was just trying to figure out what was happening because anytime I had trigger factors before I could manage them, I could control them. I kind of let them happen and then I push 'em back down. Mm-hmm. This one wasn't going back down and I was a mess. I was just an absolute mess. I was able to get through the weekend. I drove back home and all I could think about was, what am I gonna do? What am I gonna do? [00:40:00] I wanted to stop thinking about him and I couldn't. I spent the next two weeks, really in anxiety. I, my husband would leave for work and I would just walk around the house, wring my hands, trying to figure out why I was feeling the way I was feeling. What was I gonna do with these feelings till at one point I finally decided I was gonna tell my best friend, and I was absolutely petrified to tell her because for the first time in 27 years, I was going to utter the words. I was sexually abused by my youth pastor. And I remember thinking, he's gonna find out and I'm gonna get in trouble. I just, I was 49 years old and I'm still afraid of this man. But I did tell her, it was, it took me a long time to, to get the words out, but I did, she was very supportive. She was very kind. She was patient as she waited for me to tell her. And so that started my journey of healing just by telling that first person. I then told two or three other of my close friends, so the four of us spent [00:41:00] many days and many hours on the screened in porch of one of my friends just letting me talk. Mm-hmm. And being able to express what had happened to me. I wasn't ready to tell all of the story. I mean, there's parts in the book that I won't go into here because they're pretty mm-hmm. Embarrassing and some things that I did. So I wasn't ready to tell them everything, but I told them enough that it helped me start to release what had been done to me. And so that was the first thing that I did, I think. And then the next thing I did, which was so valuable, and I encouraged victims to do it as well, I just read everything I could on clergy abuse or sexual abuse in itself. So I began to learn the terms of grooming, manipulation, gaslighting, and then I could see how he methodically used each one of those things on me to get me to do the things he got me to do, and to stay in that relationship for those five years. And that was huge for me. So [00:42:00] it was, for the first time as I began reading, I understood that I had been abused. Now, it still took me a while to admit that I really was sexually abused because I didn't want that label. I didn't wanna be an abuse victim. And there was a part of me. We all wanna be loved. And so there was still a part of me that I wanted to think that there was some part of him that cared about me, that this wasn't just purely about sex and that he wasn't just using me for his own gratification. And I had to get past that. I had to finally come to terms with, no, this man didn't do the no one who loves you, would do the things he did and ask the things he did of me. So that took me a while, to finally admit, okay, this was an abusive relationship. So I told someone, educating myself, and then I had to learn to forgive myself. I had to let, I had to let go of the guilt [00:43:00] and shame because any guilt and shame belongs squarely on him. This was a man that I should have been able to trust. It was in a place that should have been the safest place on earth for me. And he took advantage of a vulnerable teenager who had, I didn't have a major crisis in my life, but he knew my home life was an upheaval at times. He knew that I didn't see my dad very much. So he used that to against me. And I had to forgive myself for being who I was at the time and being able to respond the way I did for the coping skills I had at the time. Sure. You can look back. I, and I think, why didn't I say this? Why didn't I do that? But I couldn't because of, of the re of the relationship he had created between us. Mm-hmm. I had lost all power. He was in complete control of this relationship, so I had to forgive myself and that wasn't easy either. Then, and I don't know that this is something all victims should do, but I just felt this need [00:44:00] that I needed to confront him. I just felt like I couldn't move past this unless I was able to face him. Now, I had no contact with him for 27 years. I didn't even know if he was still alive, but I hired a private investigator and he found him ministering in a church in Alabama. And so I had my investigator contact him and we set up a time and a meeting that we would meet. And I took my husband, I took my friend who was a counselor and another friend who was at the church at the time. Um, I wanted her at this point. You told your husband at this point, I'm sorry. Yes, that's correct. I, it was probably three months after I told my friends, that I said to him I would like to meet him in his office and talked to him about something and. I was terrified. I don't know how else to say it. I just was so afraid. Not that I needed to be, but I was. And I probably sat there for almost, [00:45:00] I would say, 40 minutes and just cried. I was able to finally get out. I'm okay, the kids are okay, and then I started crying again. He couldn't have been any more supportive, more loving. I remember looking at his face and I said I was sexually abused by my youth pastor, and he didn't. His expression didn't change, and then I said. I was their babysitter and his face just dropped. And for the first time, I could see the pain I was feeling was reflected in his face. It was, I almost wanted to hug him to say, I'm sorry. 'cause I could see how much it hurt him to know that this had been done to me, especially as a baby. I mean, the picture became complete for him once I said that. And so he was very supportive. I think he was worried about me confronting this man, for a couple reasons. But one, I think he was worried that I would be disappointed in his reaction, and that I would be expecting too much of this [00:46:00] person to understand what he did to me and show any kind of remorse, and that I, it would hurt me even more. And one of my fears was that, I was afraid he wouldn't meet me. I was afraid that he was gonna say, no, I'm not gonna meet with you. And my husband said, oh, he's gonna meet with you all right? Because if he doesn't meet with you, you just tell him. Call the church secretary. We'll call every elder. We're gonna, he, somebody's gonna hear your story if he doesn't want to hear it. So he did agree to meet with me. I went down to Alabama and the meeting took place and I said the things that I wanted to say to him. I wanted him to get what he did to me. But he didn't, he never could understand the damage. It was almost as if, okay, I shouldn't have done it and I'm sorry I did it. Okay, now what do you want? It was, get away. You bother me? Yes. And his greatest fear as most narcissist, and I believe he was, narcissistic, but his greatest fear was that I was going to demand that he be removed from the ministry. I mean, that's what he [00:47:00] was most concerned about, how this was going to impact him. And he should have been out of the ministry. So I went to his. Boss. I was told this, and something happened 27 years ago. He, we think he's safe. We're not worried, in spite of the fact that during the meeting he had admitted that there had been multiple occurrences of sexual misconduct throughout his ministry. Not all teenagers, some were most were probably women. And then he said he had gone to therapy because he had been identified as a sexual addict. And I kept thinking, who, what? What world, what world? Does this make sense that a man who has been identified by a psychologist as a sex addict belongs in the ministry? Nope. But here was this church. So I sent a letter to his 11 elders thinking, okay, somebody in this eldership is gonna see this. Is I something's wrong here. Not one responded totally [00:48:00] ignored me. 11 elders totally ignored me. Wow. No worries. So then, I decided to go to his denominational leaders, which were in Indianapolis. And there again, while they were sympathetic to my story and apologize that it happened, they said, we're an independent church. Our churches hire and fire their own ministers. We have no control and if they choose to keep this man, we can do nothing about it. And so what, I was shut down and basically I had no place else to go. I had pretty much. Done everything I could do. And it wasn't my place in the man that he be removed. I expected the church to be, the church was to do the right thing. Exactly. I assumed so naively that once they heard my story and once they understood the background of this man, surely someone would say, this isn't right. But again, keep in mind he's very charismatic. He brings in [00:49:00] people, he brings in money. And to be fair, and probably I'm being a little too gracious, these men are very good at manipulating not only the victim but the congregation as well. They're very good at getting control of the congregation so that they find themselves following this man no matter what he would do. Yeah. And that's basically what happened. There was going to be, I got a four page letter from his boss telling me that, know, I'm going to. Ruin this church if I continue on this path and that I'm going to feel all this guilt because I'm gonna be responsible for the damage that I will do to pe people's spiritual lives. I mean that, it was an incredible, I put the letter in the book, I, because it is so incredibly, hard to believe that someone write that to a victim of abuse. Just So that was What year did that happen? 2004. Okay. So we did have. We did have the internet. Oh, yes. And this was after the Catholic, [00:50:00] church had their, exposure of sexual abuse within their church. So yes, this was, it was out there for sure. This wasn't something that you would think, oh, I can't believe this happened. And again, he had admitted to these past instances. I mean, this wasn't someone who was saying, oh, I don't know what she's talking about. Or, oh, this is the only time it ever happened. He had been in therapy because he was a sexual addict, So he wasn't registered as a sex offender? I guess not. And in my case, at the time of the abuse, the age of consent was 16. So I had no legal recourse because of I was either legally age of consent. Now that has been changed in Ohio. It's now 18. It's now 18, but many states it's still 16. There are several states where the age of consent is 16. Now, the interesting about that is. His contact sexual contact with me was not considered a crime. However, if he had been my high school teacher, it would've been a crime. What, so pastors I know [00:51:00] does not make sense. It does not make a leg of sense. No, it does not. So it, they don't consider him a teacher. They don't cons, they don't, they considered an affair. A mutual. Relationship if he'd been my teacher, that's a different story. So yeah, I had no legal recourse. And that was frustrating. But I couldn't change that. So it was what it was. I just had to accept that he, yes, he belonged in jail. Yes, there's no doubt and should be registered as a sex offender, but I'm not so sure that even if he's registered as a sex offender, these people in Alabama and wherever he is now, would. Even take that as a concern. Well, you know, the millennials now, they'll just, they just post stuff on Facebook and Twitter and call the evening news and they have, yes. News people at their doorstep, right. Ready to mm-hmm. Track this guy's name through the mud. Mm-hmm. But you didn't choose to do that, I guess. No, you know, I'm very careful about naming him in the sense that, part of my story is that I [00:52:00] reconnected with his wife. She actually divorced him after they moved, because again, he committed sexual misconduct. She was 20, I think, at the time, so it wasn't a minor, but that's beside the point. This is a man in a position that, a professional who does not cross boundaries like that. So, to no one surprise, he committed sexual misconduct the third time, so she divorced him. And part of, I guess letting go of some of the guilt that I felt, I wanted to. Connect with her to at least tell her, not that I was responsible for what happened, but how very sorry I was for her pain and suffering as well because she was part of the youth group. I mean, she was there at the church all the time. We sang in the choir together. So it was like I had a relationship with her. Oh wow. To some extent. And of course when, we were found, when he was found out by the elders, she was upset and she of course, didn't wanna have anything to do with me, which is understandable. So I actually think I [00:53:00] also wanted to give her the opportunity to say whatever she felt she needed to say to me if she wanted to. I mean, I didn't know what she was gonna say or react. I thought maybe she'd hang up on me. I didn't know. So I called her one day. My investigator found her phone number and gave it to me, and she couldn't have been any more gracious. I, she never blamed me. She understood as she, as the years went on, what this really was just like I did. She's remarried. She's has a wonderful husband now. And so I visited her several times. We keep in contact. And so part of my not wanting to expose him too much is that it would be hurtful to her. And he does have children. Now. I know that, well, whatever consequences are as a result of this are all on him, but I don't feel the need to add to that. That's not my purpose in speaking out. And so, mm-hmm. I've gone to his church leaders, I've done everything I can to get him removed from the ministry. And nothing, it's just [00:54:00] he's still, I don't know that he's still a pastor, but he still remains in good standing within that denomination to this day. Yeah. I mean, sometimes we have to just let God. Right. Dish out the justice. It may not be in our timeline, it may not be the way that we think it should happen, but Right. He's not gonna get away with this. No. And again, I did my part. Yes. So my conscience is clear and I am able to say I did what I could do and whether or not they removed him, I certainly hope that I maybe put some doubt in some of their minds and maybe questioned their motives in keeping this man. I don't know. But, I feel I did what I could do and I feel good about that. I feel good about that. Absolutely, you should. And what I'm really interested in is, you're trying to keep this stuff from happening to other people, so, I mean, what can we do to prevent some of this stuff? Well, it's [00:55:00] difficult again, because these men are among us as wolves in sheep's clothing, and so they're difficult to spot. But a couple things. I think the first thing I would tell people is if something doesn't seem right. Keep your antenna up. Don't just ignore it or just don't think, oh, well that can't be true because he's the pastor. Mm-hmm. If it's behavior that you wouldn't accept in someone else, or it's something that you would question in someone else, then question it in the pastor or the choir director, whoever it is. Don't be blinded by the person. The persona that they're presenting to you. So that's the first thing I would say is keep your antenna up. The other thing is we, and we're churches, I think are doing better about this, but you've got to have policies in place that say, no, you're not taking a 16-year-old girl on your hospital visit with you. Yes. That's, that's not normal. That's not right. What is she doing going on a hospital visit with you in a car? And of course now we have the texting [00:56:00] and there should be absolutely no texting between a pastor, a youth minister, and anyone in the congregation. And that includes, no, don't forget the meeting for the church luncheon. No, there should be no texting because you, it's too hidden and it's too easily moved to the next step. And that's how it starts. You know, all of the abuse when it's someone you know, it always starts with small things and subtle things. It doesn't, innocent things. Innocent things that, yeah, that, that are innocent. But so that's why, so no texting. Yeah. So put in the policy, those places of, when you take a 10-year-old child to the bathroom, you make sure there's another adult with you. Absolutely. That's for your safety as well as for the child's safety. Mm-hmm. So I, I think we need to be aware. And then I would also say watch for the vulnerable in your, among your church or your group. Watch for the kid that's got issues at home and is looking for a father figure. Be aware that they're going to be more susceptible to someone who's a predator and pay [00:57:00] attention to their cues and kind of keep in touch with them as well in a sense of asking questions and how they're doing and be the kind of a person that they might feel comfortable coming to if something were to happen to them because they're the ones that are gonna be most vulnerable, to a predator. So that's kind of, an overview of what. Maybe a help to try and stop and prevent some of this. Yes, I like lots of video cameras. They're cheap now. You can put a camera, you can hide cameras all over the church facility and Yes. And I think too, talking to this about this issue to the congregation before anything happens, maybe having a person in your congregation who is the go-to person on this topic, who, who's researched what all these grooming and manipulation is so that they are even more equipped to, to notice the signs. So you have a person who's kind of in charge of that topic and then address it to the congregation once a year and say, here's our policy and here's what we expect of our pastors and here's what we would hope you would [00:58:00] do if you notice something. So it just brings it out so that people feel like if there is something that they know is going on or something's wrong, they feel comfortable going to someone about it. Those are all really great tips for leaders and, church members. So what, what if I am listening and I am being subjected to some of this stuff, what should I do? Well, what you need to do and what is the hardest thing to do is to tell someone. Yeah. And it's hard to do because when you're in an abusive relationship, you are being controlled by your abuser. And the narrative is what he is directing. And so he's going to tell you, look, you can tell anybody you want. They're not gonna believe you. And he tells you that over and over again. He's also going to tell you that you are going to be in trouble if you tell anyone. And then there's that problem of you sort [00:59:00] of care about this person. Here's someone that has been helping you, who's been your mentor, and you don't wanna get him in trouble. So with all those dynamics involved, it's very difficult for victims to come forward. But I am telling you, you don't wanna wait the 27 years that I did no. And live with this guilt and the shame and the angst and the anxiety. First of all, it's not worth it. You're not doing anyone any favors, especially yourself, because there is help out there. But they can only help you if you're able to be able to tell someone. And believe me, I understand how difficult that is. It's not easy. Mm-hmm. But I would hope that I hearing my story and others that you will understand that there is help out there and you need to tell someone. 'cause it won't end until you tell someone. And if you need to, you go to someone that you trust. And if you need to, you go outside the church. Yes. You tell someone you know is going to listen to you. [01:00:00] Hey, I tell my listeners, you can call me anytime mm-hmm. And email me and I'm sure you'd say the same thing. Exactly. Reach out to Sandy if mm-hmm. You need somebody to talk to. Mm-hmm. Or you don't know what is the next step I need to take here? Right. It is scary to make First step. It's very scary. Very scary. Absolutely. So then there's the rest of us, those that have not experienced clergy abuse, maybe we're members in the church, maybe we're friends or family. What are some helpful things for us to do to support a victim? Helpful things to say, maybe there's things we shouldn't say, well, that's a yes. First, I would say anytime you're aware of a victim of clergy abuse or anybody who's been abused, whether it's clergy or not, reiterate to that victim that it was not their fault and that there was nothing they could have done, should have done that would've prevented this. And by doing that, you are [01:01:00] telling that person they're free to speak to you. And victims need to hear it over and over again because we do blame ourselves. Children as young as five will blame themselves because they allowed someone to touch them 'cause mommy said not to. And the that guilt in that shame that victims carry, it's difficult to let go of it. So to hear someone say to us, it's not your fault is so freeing. So that's the first thing. The second thing I would say is. Let them know that you will listen to them without judging them, and you will hear their story without being shocked that you are able to say, tell me everything you need to tell me, or Tell me as little as you wanna tell me. Give them a comfort place to go to talk. And then I would say, and this is difficult for people who have spiritual lives or who are part of the church, be very much aware that things such as prayer and Bible reading and [01:02:00] scripture can be very triggering for those who've been abused in the church. Mm-hmm. So things that you would find comforting like prayer. Can be a very major trigger factor for victims. And so instead of saying to a victim, I'll pray for you, or Can I pray with you? The best thing you could say would be to phrase it in such a way as to say, I understand because of what you've been through, prayer can be difficult. And so I would like to pray for you, but I would completely understand if you don't want to pray or you won't, don't even want me to pray for you. And so you've opened up the door to say to this person, wow, I don't have to feel guilty because I can't pray. You know, when we've grown up in the church and we've been told how wonderful church and prayer and all those things are, we still carry that guilt too because we're no longer connected to God. So to have a person on the outside. Recognize that these can be trigger factors is again, a gift. It's a [01:03:00] gift. So those things I think would be the most helpful when dealing with a person of clergy abuse. And give them time. Don't push forgiveness. Don't push trying to get them back into church. 'cause some victims will never be able to go back to church if you let them find their own pace of time and you do it without judging them. And I know that's kind of hard sometimes for Christians and people in the church because we love the church and we find it to be such a wonderful place and we want this person back in the church. Yes. But it, it may not be the best place at that point for that victim. Such valuable advice. I That is awesome. And again, back to like, when you're talking about the sex education, open up the dialogue, you know? Yeah. Bring it up. Bring it up before they bring it up. Again, I read in the newspaper that this girl was molested by, a gym teacher. You know that, that ha I know that happens. And then let 'em know that if. It is, like you said, allowing that comfort to be able to [01:04:00] talk to someone. I think for me it was important to give my side of the story. No one had a clue that he was emotionally and verbally and physically abusive to me. They saw this as a little love affair and that we had this, magic little love affair. Evil temptress. Yes, exactly. And so I wanted them to know the full story. That was important for my healing too. And they did that. And, they welcomed me back to the church. I went back, I've been back a couple times for, a youth group reunion that we had. So, and that was difficult. But again, I thought that was necessary for me to move forward. I had to let go of my past. I had to figure out, not to forget it, but how was I going to incorpo

This podcast explores the story, "Peter Denies Jesus," Matthew 26:57-75.

From her teenage years, Jeanne Willette felt a deep compassion for children with special needs. After coming to faith at nineteen, she was placed in the Sunday School department—where she soon began a class specifically for children with special needs.Years later, Jeanne gave birth to her third child, a beautiful daughter with special needs. This precious gift would launch her into a lifelong ministry—one that serves not only children with disabilities but their parents as well.In these inspiring episodes, Jeanne shares her journey of faith, surrender, and purpose—from her daughter's diagnosis to her present ministry at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa.If you have a special needs child or know someone who does, these three episodes with Jeanne Willette are must-listens—you will be blessed!Learn more: Limitless Ministry at Calvary Chapel Costa MesaContact Jeanne: Jenowillette@gmail.com

Thanks for tuning in. Renew Church OC is a church for imperfect people only. Come visit us at: 1 Civic Center Cir Brea, CA 92821 Renew Has 2 Main Service Times: 9AM and 10:45AM 9AM: Children, Youth and Main Service 10:45: Main Service, Sunday School and Childcare For more information: www.renewchurchoc.com For tax deductible giving to Renew: Www.renewchurchoc.com/give For more resources: Roy Kim developed a video series to help Sexual Addiction Sobriety Groups. www.newlegacycounseling.com/self-guided…iety-group/ Roy and I host a 3 part series on Sexual Addiction in our podcast. Here is the first one; I would love to have you listen and give us some feedback. podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-…i=1000610037470 Pastor Wilson and Roy Kim MFT podcast podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-…i=1000578749653 Pastor Wilson and Nina's children's books series and adulting journal www.calledtobeproject.com

Sunday School 01/04/2026 by Pastor Greg Keenen

Sunday School 01/11/2026 by Pastor Greg Keenen

Medina Federated ChurchAdult Sunday SchoolAnswers Series Pastor Darren Lemmon

Asst. Pastor Melvin Gaines

The weekly adult Sunday School class at OAG taught by long time teacher, Mrs. Jeanie Davis.** Edited to remove personal information shared in the class and extended pauses **Title: Just As I Am: Leaving the Rut and Stepping Into the LightSummary: A powerful call to recognize who Jesus says He is, to stop sleepwalking in faith, and to step boldly into God's purpose by believing, acting, and living out our testimony.Approximate Outline:00:00 – The Story Behind “Just As I Am”03:20 – Small Faithful Acts That Change Lives06:05 – Are You Sleepwalking in Your Faith?09:10 – Ruts, Purpose, and God's Call12:15 – John the Baptist and Knowing Who You Are Not15:00 – Jesus' “I Am” Statements in John18:05 – I Am the Light of the World21:10 – Game Time: Moving From Belief to Action25:10 – I Am Ascending, I Am Sending You

Pastor Caleb J. Kinney Sunday School 12/28/25

Text: Mark 10:10-12  A lesson from our adult Sunday school class through the book of Mark 

Song List:1- O How He Loves You and MeTeacher: Bro. John Cantrell, Bro. Michael OdenScripture: Evolution vs Biblical View

December 28, 2025 Sunday School by Grace Bible Church

This week's message is titled Children Are Special to Jesus and the scripture reference is Mark 10:13-16. If you would like to worship with us in person, we would love to have you.  Our address is:4103 W Texas St.Carlsbad, NM 88220 Sunday School starts at 9:30AMSunday Morning Service starts at 10:45.Wednesday Night Bible Study starts at 6:00PM. Additional Sermon podcasts can be downloaded by going to https://podcast.hvbcnm.org Thank you and God Bless!

12/28/25 Sunday School message

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Sunday School 12/28/2025.

What happens when a lifetime in broadcast news meets faith, purpose, and a desire to share hope instead of headlines? In this milestone episode of Unstoppable Mindset, I sit down with John and Val Clark, hosts of The Clark Report, to talk about life after the newsroom, marriage, service, and seeing the world through a biblical lens. John reflects on more than four decades in television news and the emotional weight of covering tragedy, while Val shares her journey as a teacher, volunteer, and financial coach helping families regain control of their money. Together, we explore retirement, resilience, faith, and why focusing on what you can control is key to living with less fear and more intention. This is a thoughtful conversation about perspective, purpose, and building an Unstoppable mindset grounded in hope. Highlights: 00:10 – Hear why John and Val shifted from reporting the news to sharing hope through a faith-based podcast. 07:38 – Learn how decades of early-morning news work shaped resilience, discipline, and perspective. 12:36 – Discover how focusing on what you can control helps reduce fear in moments of crisis. 26:04 – Learn how budgeting from a biblical perspective can help people regain financial stability. 39:19 – Hear how The Clark Report chooses topics that bring faith and hope into today's headlines. 52:36 – Understand how communication, compromise, and shared purpose strengthen marriage and teamwork. About the Guest: John and Val Blanding Clark are the producers and co-hosts of The Clark Report, a weekly faith-based podcast that looks at current headlines from a biblical perspective. John and Val have been married 39 years. They currently live in central North Carolina and have two adult children. John is a recently retired news broadcaster with more than four decades of experience. He retired last December after serving as morning news anchor for the ABC-TV station in the Raleigh-Durham area of North Carolina, a post he held for 32 years.  During his broadcasting career John covered it all: political races, weather emergencies, crime and punishment, human interest stories, and even a few celebrity interviews.  He has a Bachelor's degree in Journalism from Penn State University, and is currently pursuing a Master's in Biblical Exposition from Liberty University.  John is a native of Philadelphia. Val Blanding Clark is a native of Wilmington, North Carolina, and is a former elementary school teacher. She has a Bachelor's degree in Elementary Education from the University of North Carolina at Wilmington. Since leaving the teaching profession, Val has volunteered countless hours for various non-profits, including serving many years in PTA leadership and as a charity fundraiser.  She is also a trained Budget Coach with Crown Financial Ministries, assisting families and individuals in getting their household finances under control. In addition, Val is a longtime blogger, posting regularly online about Christian living. John and Val have both served as Sunday School teachers, Marriage Mentors, and volunteers for many church outreach projects in the community. Additionally, John has served as a church Deacon and Elder. You can check out their new podcast, The Clark Report, on YouTube and Spotify, or go to their website, TheClarkReport.com. They drop a new episode each Wednesday.  Ways to connect with John and Val**:** Webpage: TheClarkReport.com About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes:

The Jesse Tree story continues in Genesis 37 when we learn about the family of Jacob and his favored son, Joseph. We also begin wondering about the similarities between the families who came before Jesus as we lead up to Christmas and the coming of Jesus. Listen to our Advent Series 2025 while we discover and learn about the family tree of Jesus. Let us prepare our hearts and the WAY for Jesus as we learn about God's love and forgiveness through Jesus Christ.Each episode is just right for listening as you begin and/or end your day. Listen with us about the journey to the nativity and Jesus.Support the showWelcome to Bible Stories and Wonder for Kids and Families. Join us while we wonder and learn about God's special people.Reach out to us at biblestories.wonder@gmail.comInstagram biblestories_wonder.podReach out to us, we love feedback and want to hear from our listeners.biblestories.wonder@gmail.comGet a shout out and let us know where all of our listeners are from! We have many listeners around the world!https://www.buymeacoffee.com/biblestorit

Devotion 2 Corinthians 8:9   Announcements 5th-8th Christmas Party Ladies Ugly Sweater Party Christmas Break Church Board Updates No Men's Breakfast Ladies Bible Study  Egon Mutzke Victory Service Weekend Worship No Bible Class or Sunday School this weekend Gym Floor Refinishing New Year's Eve Service New Year's Day Service Upcoming Voters' Meetings   Prayer List  Pastor John Hein Pastor Tim Wheaton Jim Lien Becky Mutzke Family Bob Heller School Teachers and Helpers Three Full-Time Missionaries   Common Christian Q&A Is there a natural explanation to the Christmas Star?   Hymn of the Day TLH 96 TLH "Oh, Rejoice, Ye Christians, Loudly"

From her teenage years, Jeanne Willette felt a deep compassion for children with special needs. After coming to faith at nineteen, she was placed in the Sunday School department—where she soon began a class specifically for children with special needs.Years later, Jeanne gave birth to her third child, a beautiful daughter with special needs. This precious gift would launch her into a lifelong ministry—one that serves not only children with disabilities but their parents as well.In these inspiring episodes, Jeanne shares her journey of faith, surrender, and purpose—from her daughter's diagnosis to her present ministry at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa.Resources:If you have a special needs child or know someone who does, these three episodes with Jeanne Willette are must-listens—you will be blessed!Learn more: Limitless Ministry at Calvary Chapel Costa MesaContact Jeanne: Jenowillette@gmail.com

Dr. Scott Powell, JD Flynn, and Kate Olivera look ahead to the readings for the Christmas Vigil Mass— including St. Paul's letter to the Ephesians, and the genealogy that launches the New Testament. If you like listening to Sunday School, consider becoming a paying subscriber to The Pillar. It's just $8 a month, and it helps make this podcast possible. You can subscribe here: pillarcatholic.com/subscribeAlready read the readings? Skip ahead to 11:40Reading 1 - Isaiah 62:1-5Psalm 89: 4-5, 16-17, 27, 29Reading 2 - Acts 13: 16-17, 22-25Gospel - Matthew 1: 1-25-Listen to our episode for Christmas Mass During the Day here: The past days and the last days-Jingle Bells by Kevin MacLeod (CC BY 4.0) This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.pillarcatholic.com/subscribe

Thanks for tuning in. Renew Church OC is a church for imperfect people only. Come visit us at: 1 Civic Center Cir Brea, CA 92821 Renew Has 2 Main Service Times: 9AM and 10:45AM 9AM: Children, Youth and Main Service 10:45: Main Service, Sunday School and Childcare For more information: www.renewchurchoc.com For tax deductible giving to Renew: Www.renewchurchoc.com/give For more resources: Roy Kim developed a video series to help Sexual Addiction Sobriety Groups. www.newlegacycounseling.com/self-guided…iety-group/ Roy and I host a 3 part series on Sexual Addiction in our podcast. Here is the first one; I would love to have you listen and give us some feedback. podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-…i=1000610037470 Pastor Wilson and Roy Kim MFT podcast podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-…i=1000578749653 Pastor Wilson and Nina's children's books series and adulting journal www.calledtobeproject.com

A new MP3 sermon from Grace Baptist Church is now available on SermonAudio with the following details: Title: Studies In Ruth, Pt.9 Subtitle: Studies In Ruth Speaker: Richard Warmack Broadcaster: Grace Baptist Church Event: Sunday School Date: 12/21/2025 Bible: Ruth 2:15-17 Length: 36 min.

Pastor J. Bryant Lagoe Sunday School 12/21/25

(Note: We have adjusted the series order to cover Christian Liberty in Session 8 last week, with The Regulative Principle of Worship following this week in Session 9.)In this lesson, we explore the biblical regulative principle of worship: God alone determines how He is to be worshiped, and only those elements explicitly commanded or exemplified in Scripture are permitted. Following chapter 8 of Dr. Hicks' book, we will examine the key elements of corporate worship (such as the reading and preaching of the Word, prayer, singing of psalms/hymns/spiritual songs, and the ordinances of baptism and the Lord's Supper), while rejecting human inventions or additions that lack biblical warrant—all to ensure worship that is simple, pure, and God-glorifying.This series works to provide a positive, biblical case for key beliefs, including the sufficiency of Scripture, salvation by grace alone, justification by faith, covenant theology, Calvinism, the regulative principle of worship, and more—tracing their roots from the early church through the Reformation and Puritan eras.Our weekly Sunday School live stream begins every Lord's Day at 9:30 AM (US Central Time).About Reformed Baptist Church of McKinneyWe are a Christ-centered, Bible-believing church in McKinney, Texas, committed to the glory of God through expository preaching, sound doctrine, and vibrant fellowship. For more details on our beliefs, ministries, and events, visit our website: https://rbcmckinney.comConnect with UsFacebook/Instagram/X: @rbcmckinneySupport Our MinistryYour generous tithes and offerings help sustain our work in proclaiming the gospel. Give securely online: https://rbcmckinney.churchcenter.com/givingDisclaimerWe do not own the rights to “What Is a Reformed Baptist? An Overview of Doctrinal Distinctives” by Tom Hicks (Founders Press, 2024). This book is used solely as a teaching guide for our series. For more on the author, the book, or Founders Ministries, visit: https://press.founders.org/shop/what-is-a-reformed-baptist/SOLI DEO GLORIA

Text: Mark 10:1-12  A lesson from our adult Sunday school class through the book of Mark 

Song List:1- EmmanuelTeacher: Bro. John CantrellLesson: Evolution vs Biblical View

This audio-only file includes all the readings from scripture, along with the sermon — and when available, the announcements, adult choir, men's choir, and/or bell choir. Also posted along with the audio file is the text for all the scripture readings, and a link to the current bulletin, and our YouTube channel if you prefer to watch the LIVE Stream.

Sunday School with Sis Donna Nichols  12.21.25

This week's message is titled Let Us Love and the scripture reference is John 13:34-35. If you would like to worship with us in person, we would love to have you.  Our address is:4103 W Texas St.Carlsbad, NM 88220 Sunday School starts at 9:30AMSunday Morning Service starts at 10:45.Wednesday Night Bible Study starts at 6:00PM. Additional Sermon podcasts can be downloaded by going to https://podcast.hvbcnm.org Thank you and God Bless!

Sunday School 12/07/2025

Sunday School 12/14/2025

Sunday School 11/30/2025

On December 17, the Church commemorates Daniel the Prophet and the Three Young Men. The Rev. Dr. Walter A Maier, III, (professor of Exegetical Theology, Concordia Theological Seminary, Fort Wayne) joins Andy and Sarah to discus who Daniel was, what was unique about him, who the three young men were and their place in the book of Daniel, things about Daniel we might not have learned in Sunday School, what the Lord teaches us in their story, and why the Church commemorates the Prophet Daniel and the Three Young Men. Read more about Daniel in the Concordia Commentary series at cph.org/daniel-concordia-commentary. As you grab your morning coffee (and pastry, let's be honest), join hosts Andy Bates and Sarah Gulseth as they bring you stories of the intersection of Lutheran life and a secular world. Catch real-life stories of mercy work of the LCMS and partners, updates from missionaries across the ocean, and practical talk about how to live boldly Lutheran. Have a topic you'd like to hear about on The Coffee Hour? Contact us at: listener@kfuo.org.

For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.-Isaiah 9:6In this episode, we take a walk through the story behind the song, "O Little Town of Bethlehem." Written by Phillips Brooks just after the Civil War, the hymn grew out of a weary pastor's visit to Bethlehem—a night that filled him with a peace he never forgot. Knowing the heaviness of that moment in history makes the lyrics even more meaningful, especially the line: “the hopes and fears of all the years are met in Thee tonight.”We will also reflect on the humble setting of Jesus' birth, Mary's own song in Luke 1, and the way God still draws near to ordinary, humble hearts. We also look at the story behind the melody written for Brooks' Sunday School children—a little reminder that God often meets us even when we feel defeated.I'll end with the song, "O Little Town of Bethlehem." I hope you discover, as I have, deeper layers of meaning in this familiar Christmas song. If you would like to support this podcast with a monthly or one-time gift, thank you!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.sherriyoungward.com/support⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠To find out about upcoming gatherings and new projects, please join my email list at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.sherriyoungward.com