Conversation Earth

The best scientific estimates tell us human civilization is in overshoot. Were you aware of this? Do you know what overshoot is? Earth Overshoot Day in 2020 is August 22. Computer modeling by a team of MIT scientists in 1972 estimated the scale of human activity on the planet would cause systems to fail within a hundred years. Such failure is expected when humanity’s footprint on the planet consistently exceeds its carrying capacity. Since 1972, study after study, and report after report, has warned we are in overshoot – the sum total of human activity is too much for the Earth’s ecosystems to bear. Since 2003, scientists at Global Footprint Network have been analyzing UN data and satellite imagery to estimate the planet’s capacity to meet our needs (biocapacity), and humankind’s footprint - or demand (ecological footprint) - on that capacity. Their analysis suggests we have been in overshoot since about 1970. Welcome to Overshoot explores overshoot’s causes, effects, and possible solutions, as well as some of the barriers to solving the problem. Reported by: Dave Gardner Interviews: William Catton, author of Overshoot: The Ecological Basis of Revolutionary Change Brian Czech, author of Supply Shock: Economic Growth at the Crossroads and the Steady State Solution, and executive director of the Center for the Advancement of the Steady State Economy Herman Daly, author of Beyond Growth: The Economics of Sustainable Development Paul Ehrlich, Stanford Biologist, author of The Population Bomb Kerryn Higgs, author of Collision Course: Endless Growth on a Finite Planet Ian Johnson, former World Bank vice president, former secretary general of Club of Rome Bill McKibben, environmental journalist, author of Falter: Has the Human Game Begun to Play Itself Out?, co-founder of 350.org. Dennis Meadows, lead scientist, The Limits to Growth Kate Raworth, author of Doughnut Economics: 7 Ways to Think Like a 21st Century Economist William Rees, co-originator of ecological footprint analysis Bill Ryerson, President of Population Media Center and Chair of Population Institute Juliet Schor, Professor of Sociology at Boston University and author of Plenitude: The New Economics of True Wealth John Seager, CEO of Population Connection Gus Speth, former chair, White House Council on Environmental Quality Mathis Wackernagel, founder of Global Footprint Network and co-author of Ecological Footprint: Managing Our Biocapacity Budget Rex Weyler, environmental journalist Links: Earth Overshoot Day https://www.overshootday.org/ The Limits to Growth http://donellameadows.org/the-limits-to-growth-now-available-to-read-online/ Conversation Earth http://www.conversationearth.org/episode-list GrowthBusters Podcast about sustainable living http://www.growthbusters.org/podcast

Since 1972, study after study, and report after report, has warned we are in overshoot – the sum total of human activity is too much for the Earth’s ecosystems to bear. Welcome to Overshoot explores overshoot’s causes, effects, and possible solutions, as well as some of the barriers to solving the problem. Featuring comments from William Catton (author of Overshoot), William Rees (co-originator of ecological footprint analysis), Kate Raworth (author of Doughnut Economics), Herman Daly, Paul Ehrlich and many more luminaries. (New episode 7/25/19)

Was globalization a temporary state that has run its course? That’s the case made by Jerry Mander, who believes there is plenty of evidence that the promises of capitalism, consumerism, individual wealth and never-ending growth are coming up empty. He’s founder of the International Forum on Globalization and author of The Case Against the Global Economy and for a Turn Toward the Local. He also wrote The Capitalism Papers: Fatal Flaws of an Obsolete System in 2012. Jerry Mander is in a unique position to understand the power of advertising to move us to act against our best interests. After earning bachelor’s and master’s degrees in economics, he ended up in the advertising business, eventually as a partner at a San Francisco ad agency. He managed several early ad campaigns for the Sierra Club, working with famed environmentalist David Brower. In 1971 he founded the first non-profit advertising agency in the United States, Public Interest Communications. Mander grew to realize the power of advertising was being used to preserve an unsustainable system that requires ever-increasing amounts of consumption. In response, he authored Four Arguments for the Elimination of Television in 1978. He founded the International Forum on Globalization in 1994 and continues to serve as a Distinguished Fellow. This conversation was recorded in Jerry Mander’s office in 2011.

Hollywood director Tom Shadyac traded a mansion and private jets for a mobile home and a bicycle. He had found the traditional trappings of success were not the key to happiness. After a successful Hollywood comedy career and a near-death bicycle accident, Tom eagerly shares his discoveries about life and happiness. In part two of a two-episode conversation, Shadyac discusses technology, morality, competition, success and politics. His documentary, I Am, explored what’s wrong with the world and what we can do about it. His book, Life’s Operating Manual, shares his observations about the true meaning of life. Learn more at http://www.conversationearth.org

Tom Shadyac is a successful Hollywood comedy director who found the traditional trappings of success were not the key to happiness. He traded a mansion and private jets for a mobile home and a bicycle. After a bicycle accident nearly killed him, he decided it was time to tell a different kind of story. His documentary, I Am, featured interviews with Desmond Tutu, Noam Chomsky, David Suzuki, and others about what’s wrong with the world and what we can do about it. He also wrote the book, Life’s Operating Manual, which is a lot like it sounds. In part one of this two-episode conversation, Shadyac discusses human nature, the definition of success, and our cultural story, with a few references to Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump along the way. Tom Shadyac Films: Ace Ventura: Pet Detective The Nutty Professor Liar, Liar Patch Adams Bruce Almighty Evan Almighty I Am NOTE: We’re bringing you encore episodes from the 2nd season of Conversation Earth while we make plans for the future. Please support the continuation of Conversation Earth with a tax-deductible donation at http://www.tinyurl.com/ceseason3 Learn more and subscribe to our weekly updates at http://www.conversationearth.org

Host Dave Gardner explains why we'll be sharing encores from the 2nd season of Conversation Earth in the coming weeks, and why there are likely to be no more new episodes. The link mentioned in this brief message from Dave is http://www.tinyurl.com/CEseason3

While world leaders wring their hands over forecasts of timid GDP growth, a growing list of visionaries around the world are collaborating to redefine economic objectives in a more meaningful and sustainable way. Former White House advisor Gus Speth has been at the forefront of new economic thought for decades. His prescription for change is not a bunch of economic mumbo-jumbo for boards and bankers. His ideas reach deep into the way we conduct our personal lives.   “We need to get beyond this consumerism, to get beyond our hyperventilating lifestyles...and start focusing on the things that really matter to us, to our future, to our children.” In this 2010 interview, Gus Speth shares new thinking about the purpose of an economy, how climate change was discussed in the Jimmy Carter White House, the successes of environmentalism, and where and how the environmental movement has failed us. NOTE: We are between Season 2 and Season 3. We’re bringing you encore episodes from the first season of Conversation Earth during this break. Visit http://www.tinyurl.com/ceseason3 to make sure Season 3 happens. Thank you!

How we inhabit our homes, our lives, and the planet. Architect Sarah Susanka observed that houses in the U.S. were getting larger – but some rooms were seldom occupied, and often not even furnished. She found clients frequently did not get the immense satisfaction they expected from living in their “dream house.” How this relates to the way we inhabit our lives, and even the planet, is the subject of this conversation. Sarah Susanka’s observations of Americans’ dissatisfaction with their “starter castles” sparked her to write Not so Big House, about how making a house bigger doesn’t necessarily make it better. The book was a major success, leading to appearances on major network morning shows and Oprah. More observation and reflection led Sarah to pen, several years later, The Not So Big Life: Making Room for What Really Matters. It was a landmark book, important for its perspective on quality vs. quantity, and its encouragement to reflect on what we want “more” of. We’re sharing the best episodes from Season One while we take a break between seasons 2 and 3. This 2008 interview is interwoven with a lively presentation Sarah made at the University of Denver.

“Our computer-generated scenarios all showed this growth stopping in the early decades of the 21st century, and, I must say, looking back now, it seems that we're right on schedule.” Dennis Meadows led the team at MIT whose computer simulations led to the publication of the top-selling environmental book of all time – The Limits to Growth. Scientists built on Jay Forester’s pioneering system dynamics work to chart future trends of five variables, analyzing how they would influence one another. The five variables were world population, industrialization, pollution, food production and resource depletion.   Their World3 computer model’s business-as-usual scenario did not paint a rosy picture, and many economists and industrialists criticized the study harshly.   “Our work challenged the foundations of modern economic theory.  It made life for politicians very uncomfortable, and threatened corporations who were looking to increase their markets.  So, all of them, especially the economists, really lit out after our work, and criticized it roundly….”   In recent years, several studies have confirmed that the “standard-run” scenario turned out to be remarkably accurate. This may offer an explanation of the growing list of environmental crises and the inability of the global economy to maintain the robust growth rates experienced earlier. Learn more at http://www.conversationearth.org

Relocalization may be the most important strategy for minimizing climate change. According to Bill McKibben, “working as communities is the most important thing that we can be doing right now.” In this wide-ranging conversation about the sustainability of our civilization, McKibben shares his thinking about much more than climate change, including the fact that having “more” is not necessarily the key to our happiness. Bill McKibben has played a major role in public awareness and discussion about climate change. His 1989 book, The End of Nature, was likely the first book for a general audience about climate change. He’s one of the founders of the planet-wide, grassroots climate change movement, 350.org, he spearheaded resistance to the Keystone Pipeline, and launched the fossil fuel divestment movement. Local food, small farms, suburban isolation, more leisure and less stuff, community connections, and greater satisfaction all come up for discussion. Dave Gardner sat down with McKibben in 2007, shortly after publication of his book, Deep Economy: The Wealth of Communities and the Durable Future, the year before he co-founded 350.org, for this macro-level look at climate change, human behavior and happiness, and public policy. We're sharing encore episodes from Season One while we take a break between seasons two and three. Make sure there IS a season three by pitching in at http://www.tinyurl.com/ceseason3 Learn more about Bill McKibben, subscribe to get a weekly email notification and learn more at http://www.conversationearth.org

Do we behave rationally? You might be surprised how often our decision-making deviates from what is in our best interest. Behavioral economist Dan Ariely studies human behavior and decision-making. His experiments have led him to startling conclusions.    “We repeatedly and predictably make the wrong decisions in many aspects of our lives.”   We may be rats in a maze for scientific study, but Dan Ariely puts a refreshingly human face on the scientific study of why we do the things we do. He offers an insightful explanation of why Republicans and Democrats in the U.S. can't agree on facts:   “When we have an initial belief, reality doesn’t matter as much as we think.  We have an illusion that we’re actually observing reality, but it’s filtered dramatically by what we’re experiencing in our brains, and our expectations.”   Ariely offered this about climate change: “If you were starting from scratch, and you said, ‘Let me create a problem that people would not care about,’ it would look very much like global warming.” Listen to this conversation to find out why. This fun and fascinating dialogue explores the decoy effect, inter-temporal choice, hedonic treadmill, identifiable victim effect, behavior substitution, the happiness conundrum, keeping up with the Joneses, and even being choosy about who you compare yourself too. It’s a fascinating journey into the human psyche. NOTE: We are between Season 2 and Season 3. For the next several weeks we’ll bring you encore episodes from the first season of Conversation Earth. Season 3 is in the works. Thanks for listening, and thank you for visiting http://tinyurl.com/ceseason3 and pitching in to make the next season possible. Explore more at http://www.conversationearth.org

Would you believe we've entered a period of "uneconomic growth?" Robust economic growth has become the Holy Grail of public policy and politics. But some economists and many scientists have come to believe growth has become “uneconomic." Former World Bank Senior Economist Herman Daly explains this in terms we can all understand.   Daly co-founded the journal, Ecological Economics, and has written and spoken extensively about the fact that “the economy is a sub-system of a larger system. The larger system being the biosphere – the environment.” And that system has its limits.   In this 2010 interview, Herman Daly postulates that, in a full world, the costs of further economic growth exceed the benefits, and we are reaching a point where it is physically impossible to keep growing the global economy. Using easy to understand, real-world examples, Daly delivers an aha moment. After listening to this interview, one is likely to conclude, “Of course! It’s the environment, stupid!” We're offering encores of our best episodes from Season One while we take a break. Learn more about Herman Daly and find links to his work at http://www.conversationearth.org Cast your vote for another season of stimulating conversations athttp://www.tinyurl.com/ceseason3

“One of the ways that radical ideas become more mainstream is when those of us who hold them aren’t afraid to speak about them.” This thought has guided much of journalism professor Robert Jensen’s work. His writing and speaking often focus on the news that “we live in an economy that is based on the destruction of places all over world.” In this 2015 interview, Jensen explains what he calls “an unprecedented set of threats to the possibility of ongoing, large-scale, human habitation of the planet.”   Jensen takes a critical approach to media and power. Much of his work has focused on pornography, a radical feminist critique of sexuality and men's violence, and white privilege and institutionalized racism. He has written:   “If there is to be a decent future, we have to give up on the imperial fantasy of endless power, the capitalist fantasy of endless growth, the technological fantasy of endless comfort…we should mourn the world that these systems have created and search for something better. Systems that celebrate domination are death cults, not the basis for societies striving for justice and sustainability.” Learn more about Robert Jensen at http://www.conversationearth.org This is an encore presentation from Season One. We're sharing our best episodes while we take a break between Seasons Two and Three. Please cast a vote for another season at http://www.tinyurl.com/ceseason3

Our ecosystems contribute tens of trillions of dollars to our economy every year, but – as L. Hunter Lovins notes, “At present we’re losing every major ecosystem on the planet…What are we doing to ourselves?...We have the…intelligence…to make different choices.” Hunter Lovins co-authored the best-selling book, Natural Capitalism, with Paul Hawken and Amory Lovins. In this interview, she outlines those choices and shares how they benefit businesses and the planet. One of the biggest challenges to living sustainably, says Lovins, is our belief we can meet non-material needs through the purchase of material things. “We keep spending all this money, and we aren’t getting any happier.” Wouldn’t you rather have more time than more stuff? She observes that we all have a profound hunger for authenticy, human connection, love. We recorded this interview in 2004, but offer it here because the concepts are as relevant today. Please visit zhttp://www.tinyurl.com/ceseason3 and let us know you want another season of Conversation Earth. Learn more about Hunter Lovins, find links to her work, and subscribe to get a weekly email announcing the next podcast - at http://www.conversationearth.org

Today it could be argued that human beings daily act against our own self-interests. How? Biologist Paul Ehrlich and fellow scientists tell us we are expanding our population and economy beyond the Earth's carrying capacity - at our peril.  Why do we insist on continuing? Ehrlich has been a keen observer of human behavior for over 50 years, and he thinks “we need a millennium assessment of human behavior.” If we can understand how we behave, and why we behave that way, perhaps we can figure out how to behave as though we want to hang around another thousand years. We're sharing the best episodes from Season One while we take a break and fundraise for Season Three. Please check out our story and pitch in a little at http://tinyurl.com/ceseason3 to make sure the series continues.   Ehrlich is best known for authoring The Population Bomb, published in 1968 at the suggestion of the Sierra Club’s first executive director, David Brower. Paul’s wife, Anne Ehrlich, co-authored the book (though the publisher insisted only Paul’s name adorn the book). Paul and Anne preferred a different title, Population, Resources and Environment, as the book was about much more than human population. The book offered dramatic warnings about the impact of the expanding scale of the human enterprise, which included not just the number of people on the planet, but also their behavior – levels of consumption and the size of their economies.   Growth boosters have criticized Paul Ehrlich since the 1960s. Some claim his ideas have been disproved and discredited, but generally those detractors have been economists (and not all economists). Ehrlich is a serious scientist with an impressive command of the facts, and the scientific community continues to publish and devour his work. His frank and direct approach, and colorful way with words, have continued to make him a lightning rod for discussion of a question that is central to the notion of sustainability of human civilization:    Can technology and innovation perpetually expand the carrying capacity of our planet?   In this 2007 interview, only very brief portions of which have ever been released, Paul Ehrlich shares his opinions on population, economics, hunger and poverty, and climate change. He takes aim at politicians, economists, television news, and human beings in general.   “It’s not a matter of needing more science to know what do.  We can use more science, but the big problem is why is there such a gap between what the scholarly community knows and what the politicians and public know and are willing to do anything about.” Learn more about Ehrlich, find links to his work, and learn more about the series at http://www.conversationearth.org

Rex Weyler has lived the life dreamed of by those who want to make a difference. As a young man he joined early Greenpeace expeditions to document and stop commercial whaling. He went on to co-found Greenpeace International, and as a journalist has covered the subject of ecology extensively. We're sharing the best episodes from Season One while we fundraise for Season Three. Check out our story at http://tinyurl.com/ceseason3 . Your tax-deductible donation fuels this non-profit project. “The human machine is just steamrolling…toward disaster.” Weyler has lived a rich life and has a keen understanding of the source of joy, but there is sadness in his voice when he talks about how civilization grew right past ecological limits to growth. “I'm not concerned that my children will consume less stuff and have to live lifestyles more like my grandparents. I'm more concerned that my children will have to live in chaos because we were stupid and we tried to drive right past all these limits….” In this newly released 2010 interview, Weyler shares his observations of “what can happen as a civilization grows out of control.” Technology, economics, consumption, population and politics are all in his cross-hairs. Weyler does express some hope for the future, as well, and outlines changes needed to bring human civilization back to living within ecological limits. “What I'm working toward in my life and in my community is that we make these changes intelligently, peacefully, within our communities.” Learn more at http://www.conversationearth.org

What went wrong with the environmental movement? Environmental activist, organizer and author Lorna Salzman shares her thoughts about climate change, consumerism, cheap energy, economics, lawyers and politics. She discusses “what went wrong with the environmental movement,” plus irrationality, denial, and outright lies we tell ourselves, and each other. Lorna Salzman has the chops to be an outspoken critic of many in the modern environmental movement. She played a key role in the early days of Friends of the Earth alongside David Brower (the first executive director of the Sierra Club), beginning a 40-year career as an environmental activist, writer, lecturer and organizer. A contender for the Green Party presidential nomination in 2004, Salzman is an iconoclast in every sense of the word.   In this 2010 interview at her summer cottage, Lorna Salzman shared her thoughts about climate change, consumerism, cheap energy, economics, lawyers and politics. She discusses “what went wrong with the environmental movement,” plus irrationality, denial, and outright lies we tell ourselves, and each other. NOTE: We are between Season 2 and Season 3. For the next several weeks we’ll bring you encore episodes from the first season of Conversation Earth. Please cast your vote for another season by pitching in with a tax-deductible contribution athttp://tinyurl.com/ceseason3

“The age of growth and the age in which growth is going to be considered a good thing is coming to an end.” The late sociologist William R. Catton was certain of this, but spent a significant portion of his professional life attempting to understand why mainstream society was reluctant to prove his point.   Catton authored the landmark book, Overshoot: The Ecological Basis of Revolutionary Change, published in 1980. He brought important sociological perspective to a subject dominated by biologists and physicists. He observed that our lives are built around an obsolete cultural belief system, developed when the size of human civilization had not yet outgrown the carrying capacity of the planet.   According to scientists at the Global Footprint Network, human civilization surpassed a sustainable scale (a combination of population and consumption) in the 1970s. Catton observed a lag between that reality and the dominant worldview that affects our rate of consumption – of both renewable and nonrenewable resources. Bill Catton passed away on January 5, 2015. At the time of my conversation with Bill Catton, he had just published his third book, Bottleneck: Humanity's Impending Impasse. For more information and links to Catton's work, visit http://www.conversationearth.org We're sharing some of the best episodes of Season One while we take a break, before launching a 3rd season of Conversation Earth. Vote for a 3rd season at http://tinyurl.com/ceseason3

Stephanie Mills made headlines in the Spring of 1969 when she vowed, in her commencement address (titled The Future is a Cruel Hoax), to conceive no children. “Our days as a race on this planet are, at this moment, numbered,” she proclaimed, “and the reason for our finite, unrosy future is that we are breeding ourselves out of existence.” In this 2010 interview, Stephanie reflects on the life she has led and the important decision she made at the age of twenty-two. She shares insight about “the 500-year war on subsistence,” and the dumbing down of discourse about overpopulation. Vote for another season of Conversation Earth at: http://tinyurl.com/ceseason3 Learn more about Stephanie Mills and the Conversation Earth series at http://www.conversationearth.org

How big is your ecological footprint? Probably bigger than you think. After all, out of sight, out of mind. As an originator of ecological footprint analysis, population ecologist William Rees knows a thing or two about our impact on the planet. In this interview he provides some fascinating, and surprising insights. Did you know most of us in the industrialized world have a footprint three or four times our fair share? Or that the “global economy is a giant Ponzi scheme? It turns out localized economies have their advantages over globalization. William Rees points out that globalization has allowed concentrated populations to extend their footprints all over the world. “We’re seeing growth in human technological capacity and human populations and the scale of the economy that’s completely unprecedented.” Vote for another season of Conversation Earth at http://tinyurl.com/ceseason3 Learn more at http://www.conversationearth.org Photo Credit: By Nick Wiebe (Own work) [CC BY-SA 3.0]

The author of Recovering the Sacred tells us we need a society that is “respectful, resilient, and ecologically and socially responsible.” Instead, “we have a society based on conquest, on consuming more than it needs.” We emphasize “quarterly profits over intergenerational responsibility.” This is an encore from Season One. We're taking a break after two enlightening seasons of Conversation Earth. Please vote for another season, at http://tinyurl.com/ceseason3

“Gross Domestic Product has now become a fetish,” according to economist Raj Patel. Many undesirable things end up adding to GDP: wars, disease, and environmental destruction, for example. And GDP fails to measure many desirable indicators of community health. It has led us to live in an ecologically and socially unsustainable fashion. “No one wants to live in the Stone Age, no one wants to live in a time with bad medical care, no one wants to live in a time of poverty and wide-spread illness and disease, but what I'm suggesting is that there are other ways in which we can get to that world, and other ways in which we can track our progress other than the fetish of Gross Domestic Product.” Raj Patel offers observations of what is and isn't working our current, unsustainable system. He believes better ways of organizing our economy are being developed and demonstrated today; we just need to open our eyes. We're re-sharing the best episodes of our first season while we prepare for season 3. If you want to continue tapping the brightest minds on the planet, see our story at http://tinyurl.com/ceseason3 and pitch in a little to help fund another season! Photo Credit: Sheila Menezes

Our 41st episode is a retrospective of Seasons 1 and 2 of Conversation Earth. In this episode we turn the table, as co-producer Kaitlyn Hickmann interviews host/creator Dave Gardner. The two share highlights from previous episodes and discuss the joys and challenges of producing the series. This episode serves as a great sampler, giving you a taste of the variety of subjects and the caliber of the guests. Do you want to hear a Season 3? You can make that happen at http://tinyurl.com/ceseason3. We've just launched a crowdfunding campaign to raise funds to produce Season 3. Visit http://tinyurl.com/ceseason3 to learn more about the podcast, meet Dave and Kaitlyn up close and personal, and make a tax-deductible contribution to keep the conversation going.

Frustrated at the abysmal rate of adoption when seatbelts were introduced into cars in the 1960s, Jack Alpert quit his job as an automotive engineer to study human decision-making. In this episode he sheds interesting light on how we gather and process information to predict future outcomes and make related decisions. Would you be surprised to learn that human beings today have an impairment that prevents most of us from making the wisest decisions that affect our future? Jack founded the Stanford Knowledge Integration Laboratory while doing post graduate work at Stanford University in 1978. Today the lab is an independent non-profit research foundation. Aside from his automotive engineering and cognitive science work, Jack was on three early tech start-up teams – Bananafish software, Conductus and Cisco Systems. Learn more, subscribe to our weekly email, and contribute support at http://www.conversationearth.org

Are we all “bystanders” when it comes to responding rationally to the serious environmental crises faced by our civilization? How is our behavior shaped by that of those around us? We’ve all heard of “the bystander effect” in which a large number of people stand by and do nothing to help someone in trouble. According to social norms theory, misperceptions of the attitudes or behaviors of our peers can cause the expression of problem behavior and the inhibition of healthy action. In this episode, psychologist Dr. Alan Berkowitz shares the latest thinking about how the presence of other people affects our behavior, including our denial about critical threats to human civilization. Berkowitz founded and edited The Report on Social Norms. He authored RESPONSE ABILITY: A Complete Guide to Bystander Intervention in 2009. Links and more info at http://www.conversationearth.org

Human civilization can thrive while living within sensible limits imposed by a finite system. “Renegade economist” Kate Raworth manages to tell the truth about what we’re getting wrong in economics, while at the same time inspiring activism and optimism. In this conclusion of a two-part interview, Kate finishes her list of seven fundamentals to achieving a healthy 21st century economy. Her recently published book, Doughnut Economics: Seven Ways to Think Like a 21st-Century Economist, was called “brilliant, thrilling and revolutionary” by columnist George Monbiot. This conversation includes some of Raworth’s ideas about how we can put into practice what she is preaching. More information, links, subscribe to email newsletter, support this program, all at http://www.conversationearth.org

No civilization should head out into the world without “Doughnut Economics” in its survival kit. With her modernized thinking, economist Kate Raworth is, in her words, “flipping economics on its head.” UK Guardian columnist George Monbiot calls her new book, Doughnut Economics: Seven Ways to Think Like a 21st-Century Economist, “brilliant, thrilling and revolutionary.” In this first of a two-part conversation, Raworth explains why it’s way past time to update the approach to economics that’s been taught for over a century. She outlines seven fundamentals to achieving a healthy 21st century economy. Kate advocates painting a new mural over the “intellectual graffiti” keeping us locked into outdated economic thinking. More info and links at http://www.conversationearth.org

Award-winning scientist Dr. Guy McPherson has concluded that for human civilization, the end is near. He advises the rate of change of our climate is increasing far more rapidly than we are being told, and this puts us on his endangered species list. In this 2017 interview, McPherson reveals why the International Panel on Climate Change, and even many individual scientists, understate the problem. He critiques our modern “living arrangement,” and the lies our culture promulgates to avoid admitting, “We are trashing this planet at an astonishing rate of speed.” He also shares his thinking about a “sane” living arrangement. You might be surprised – both at how soon he expects we’ll be extinct, and at his positive advice about how to respond to this news. Links and more information at http://www.conversationearth.org

Re-establishing our personal relationship with food and ending our role as commodity “consumers” is part of a healing, regenerative process. It’s a part of our natural evolution, according to Michael Brownlee, author of The Local Food Revolution: How Humanity Will Feed Itself in Uncertain Times. In this conclusion of a two-part conversation, Brownlee shares why food is sacred, and what is needed to accelerate relocalization of our food supply. He also explains what we’ve lost in the commoditization of food, and what we can gain as we relocalize. Since 2005, Michael Brownlee and Lynette Marie Hanthorn have shepherded grassroots relocalization efforts in Boulder, Colorado. Their efforts have included the founding of Boulder Valley Relocalization, Boulder County Going Local, Transition Boulder County, Transition Colorado, Local Food Shift Group, and – most recently Local Food Catalysts. The pair are producing and co-hosting the first national Local Food Summit for ten days this summer. For more information, visit http://www.conversationearth.org

A scaled-up local food system may be the only way we can feed ourselves as we weather the storm of climate change. Until now, CSAs, urban gardens and farmer’s markets have been the face of the local food movement. But Michael Brownlee, author of The Local Food Revolution: How Humanity Will Feed Itself in Uncertain Times, tells us this is not nearly enough. In this episode, the first of a two-part conversation, Brownlee shares how global industrial agriculture is failing us, and can’t adapt to the coming climate changes. He advocates relocalizing our food supply chain in order to adapt and survive. Since 2005, Michael Brownlee and Lynette Marie Hanthorn have shepherded grassroots relocalization efforts in Boulder, Colorado. Their efforts have included the founding of Boulder Valley Relocalization, Boulder County Going Local, Transition Boulder County, Transition Colorado, Local Food Shift Group, and – most recently Local Food Catalysts. The pair are producing and co-hosting the first national Local Food Summit for ten days this summer. For information visit https://www.thelocalfoodsummit.com/summit/?orid=3782&opid=1 Learn more about Conversation Earth at http://www.conversationearth.org

100 real-world actions happening now have the potential to bring greenhouse gases back down to a level that won’t cause humans to join the ranks of the dodo and other extinct species. They just need to be scaled up. That’s the conclusion of environmentalist and entrepreneur Paul Hawken and the team of researchers, scientists, business people and political leaders he assembled for Project Drawdown. The team spent several years cataloging and modeling feasible, real-world carbon-reducing actions. They analyzed existing technological, ecological, and behavioral solutions for their potential to reduce and drawdown greenhouse gases in the atmosphere. The results were published in April of 2017 in a book edited by Hawken, Drawdown: The Most Comprehensive Plan Ever Proposed to Reverse Global Warming. In this May 2017 interview, Hawken shares details of the project, a few surprises, and his perspective on making use of this information. Paul Hawken has previously authored Ecology of Commerce and co-authored Natural Capitalism. Links and more at http://www.conversationearth.org

Most scientists agree the current level of human population, in combination with present living arrangements, is damaging our ecosystems. But doing something about overpopulation is not high on public policy lists. It’s rarely discussed in the media or over coffee with friends. Why? Population Media Center President Bill Ryerson discusses the obstacles preventing faster progress on solving the overpopulation problem, or even admitting there is one. This is the second part of an April 2017 interview. Bill Ryerson has worked in the reproductive health and population arena for 47 years. He founded Population Media Center in 1998. He’s also Chairman and CEO of The Population Institute in Washington, DC. More information about Conversation Earth at http://www.conversationearth.org

World population passed the 7.5 billion mark in the Spring of 2017, and it could rise to 11 billion by the turn of the century. We currently add over 200,000 to the population every day. If fertility rates don't continue to drop, and we don’t suffer a “massive die-off,” that figure could be closer to 30 billion. Population Media Center President Bill Ryerson corrects misconceptions, debunks myths, and shares a variety of surprising facts about overpopulation, population growth, fertility rates and human reproductive behavior in the first of a two-part conversation. Ryerson has spent 47 years in the reproductive health and population fields. He is also Chairman and CEO of the Population Institute in Washington D.C.

What exactly are “think tanks” supposed to be thinking about? Are some of them part of a campaign to cast doubt on science when it could interfere with profits? Author Kerryn Higgs recounted the growth-seeking activities of the corporate world in her book, Collision Course: Endless Growth on a Finite Planet. Her research reveals think tanks, industry associations, and even university economics departments all play a role in advancing and preserving our society’s commitment to growth above all else, even if it means ignoring science. More at http://www.conversationearth.org

How and why did our society come to value economic growth so highly that we pursue it at the risk of our long-term survival? For some time scientists have warned that human civilization is living beyond the ecological means of our planet. Yet our commitment to economic growth is unwavering. Australian writer Kerryn Higgs chronicled this triumph of denial over science in her book, Collision Course. She shares her findings here.

We need to change the way we think if we want to extend the shelf-life of our civilization, according to Frances Moore Lappé, author of EcoMind: Changing the Way We Think and Diet for a Small Planet. In this 2017 conversation, Lappé explains some of the “thought traps” to avoid in order to effectively inspire transition from what she calls our “economy of destruction.” She also explains how democracy is much more than just a form of government; it is an essential part of human nature. Lappé is co-founder of the Small Planet Institute. Respected around the world for her insights into world hunger, democracy and the environment, she has appeared on most major television and cable networks, and is a contributing editor at Yes! Magazine and Solutions Journal. Visit http://www.conversationearth.org for more information, links to her work, and an opportunity to support the non-profit Conversation Earth project.

We’re not living on Earth as if we want to stay, observes Mike Nickerson. In our last episode, Mike Nickerson shared his vision for, and the joy of, making the cultural shift necessary for a sustainable human civilization. In this continuation of the conversation, we explore some of the forces keeping our system stuck in an unsustainable mode. Nickerson leads the Sustainability Project/7th Generation Initiative in Canada, a non-profit organization that collects, studies, develops and teaches ideas, information, technologies and customs that promote green values and lead toward a sustainable future. His books include Change the World I Want to Stay On; Planning for Seven Generations: Guideposts for a Sustainable Future; and Life, Money and Illusion.

“We could be having so much fun that there just isn't time to consume resources on a quantity, or produce waste on a quantity that would be problematic for the planet,” according Mike Nickerson. He shares his ideas about how enjoyable it could be to make the cultural shift necessary for human civilization to be sustainable. Mike Nickerson has spent his career advancing sustainability. In the 1970s he founded and co-directed the Institute for the Study of Cultural Evolution. Today he leads the Sustainability Project/7th Generation Initiative in Canada, a non-profit organization that collects, studies, develops and teaches ideas, information, technologies and customs that promote green values and lead toward a sustainable future. Nickerson wrote legislation to launch measurement of a Genuine Progress Index in Canada. The Canadian government never followed through, but an independent Canadian Index of Wellbeing was eventually developed. His books include Change the World I Want to Stay On; Planning for Seven Generations: Guideposts for a Sustainable Future; and Life, Money and Illusion. More recently Mike has been helping to build the Lanark Eco-Village in Ontario, Canada. This conversation was recorded in 2008, but is being shared now for the first time. For links to Nickerson's work, to comment on this material, or to subscribe to our free weekly newsletter, visit http://www.conversationearth.org

Efforts to date are falling far short of achieving the greenhouse gas reduction needed to avoid catastrophic climate disruption. Bioethicist Travis Rieder shakes things up by suggesting ethical use of public policy to encourage smaller families, which would result in dramatic decrease of carbon emissions. This is part two of our conversation with Rieder. In part one, we discussed whether couples have a moral responsibility to have just one or perhaps no children. For more information, visit http://www.conversationearth.org

With human activity disrupting the climate, do we have a moral imperative not to have children, or to have only one child? Bioethicist Travis Rieder dares to explore this bold question with sensitivity and scientific rigor. Rieder shares his logic in the short book, Toward a Small Family Ethic: How Overpopulation and Climate Change are Affecting the Morality of Procreation. It starts with the fact that deciding not to have one child is over 20 times more effective at reducing carbon footprint than a lifetime doing the six most common “green” activities. Visit http://www.conversationearth.org for more information, to subscribe to our weekly email announcement, and/or to support the non-profit Conversation Earth project with a donation. Please ask your local public or community radio station to carry this series.

How can policymakers be persuaded to abandon the most widespread public policy goal on Earth? In our last episode, Brian Czech explained that economic growth cannot be sustained perpetually on a finite planet. This episode continues that conversation with the conservation biologist and economics expert. Here, he explains why pro-growth economists proliferate, and offers his prescription for making the shift to a steady state economy. Brian Czech is founder and president of the Center for the Advancement of the Steady State Economy, and author of Shoveling Fuel for a Runaway Train and Supply Shock: Economic Growth at the Crossroads and the Steady State Solution. Join the conversation, explore past episodes, and subscribe to our free weekly newsletter at http://www.conversationearth.org

Economic growth is the number one public policy goal around the world, yet our pursuit of growth is “pulling out the rug from our own kids’ and grandkids’ future,” according to Brian Czech, founder and president of the Center for the Advancement of the Steady State Economy. He wants us to understand economic growth is physically impossible to sustain on a finite planet, it’s depleting nonrenewable natural resources and degrading or eliminating crucial habitat for other species. Czech authored Shoveling Fuel for a Runaway Train in response to his analysis of the conflict between economic growth and sound environmental stewardship. The conservation biologist taught ecological economics for over a decade at Virginia Tech, and in 2013 penned Supply Shock: Economic Growth at the Crossroads and the Steady State Solution. In part one of a two-part conversation (recorded in 2007 but just as relevant today), Brian explains our obsession with GDP growth, its failure to eliminate poverty and increase happiness, and why it’s failings are not commonly acknowledged. Explore all our episodes and subscribe to our weekly newsletter at http://www.conversationearth.org

Was globalization a temporary state that has run its course? That’s the case made by Jerry Mander, who believes there is plenty of evidence that the promises of capitalism, consumerism, individual wealth and never-ending growth are coming up empty. He’s founder of the International Forum on Globalization and author of The Case Against the Global Economy and for a Turn Toward the Local. He also wrote The Capitalism Papers: Fatal Flaws of an Obsolete System in 2012. Jerry Mander is in a unique position to understand the power of advertising to move us to act against our best interests. After earning bachelor’s and master’s degrees in economics, he ended up in the advertising business, eventually as a partner at a San Francisco ad agency. He managed several early ad campaigns for the Sierra Club, working with famed environmentalist David Brower. In 1971 he founded the first non-profit advertising agency in the United States, Public Interest Communications. Mander grew to realize the power of advertising was being used to preserve an unsustainable system that requires ever-increasing amounts of consumption. In response, he authored Four Arguments for the Elimination of Television in 1978. He founded the International Forum on Globalization in 1994 and continues to serve as a Distinguished Fellow.

Hollywood director Tom Shadyac traded a mansion and private jets for a mobile home and a bicycle. He had found the traditional trappings of success were not the key to happiness. After a successful Hollywood comedy career and a near-death bicycle accident, Tom eagerly shares his discoveries about life and happiness. In part two of a two-episode conversation, Shadyac discusses technology, morality, competition, success and politics. Learn more & subscribe (free) to our newsletter at http://www.conversationearth.org Photo Credit: Ron Hall, Pepperdine University

Tom Shadyac is a successful Hollywood comedy director who found the traditional trappings of success were not the key to happiness. He traded a mansion and private jets for a mobile home and a bicycle. After a bicycle accident nearly killed him, he decided it was time to tell a different kind of story. In part one of this two-episode conversation, Shadyac discusses human nature, the definition of success, and our cultural story, with a few references to Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump along the way. Tom Shadyac Films: Ace Ventura: Pet Detective The Nutty Professor Liar, Liar Patch Adams Bruce Almighty Evan Almighty I Am

While world leaders wring their hands over forecasts of timid GDP growth, a growing list of visionaries around the world are collaborating to redefine economic objectives in a more meaningful and sustainable way. Former White House advisor Gus Speth has been at the forefront of new economic thought for decades. His prescription for change is not a bunch of economic mumbo-jumbo for boards and bankers. His ideas reach deep into the way we conduct our personal lives.

Architect Sarah Susanka observed that houses in the U.S. were getting larger – but some rooms were seldom occupied, and often not even furnished. She found clients frequently did not get the immense satisfaction they expected from living in their “dream house.” How this relates to the way we inhabit our lives, and even the planet, is the subject of this conversation. Sarah Susanka’s observations of Americans’ dissatisfaction with their “starter castles” sparked her to write Not so Big House, about how making a house bigger doesn’t necessarily make it better. The book was a major success, leading to appearances on major network morning shows and Oprah. More observation and reflection led Sarah to pen, several years later, The Not So Big Life: Making Room for What Really Matters. It was a landmark book, important for its perspective on quality vs. quantity, and its encouragement to reflect on what we want “more” of.

“Our computer-generated scenarios all showed this growth stopping in the early decades of the 21st century, and, I must say, looking back now, it seems that we're right on schedule.” Dennis Meadows led the team at MIT whose computer simulations led to the publication of the top-selling environmental book of all time – The Limits to Growth. In this interview, Meadows recounts how the study came about, how it was received, and what he has learned from that. The interview is followed by a brief conversation with another team member, Jørgen Randers, offering observations on the 40th anniversary of the landmark report in 2012. Learn more at http://www.conversationearth.org/limits-to-growth/ Photo Credit: Fabian Fiechter

From November 30 to December 11 the world’s attention is riveted on COP 21, the 2015 Paris Climate Conference. Bill McKibben has played a major role in public awareness and discussion about climate change. His 1989 book, The End of Nature, was likely the first book for a general audience about climate change. He’s one of the founders of the planet-wide, grassroots climate change movement, 350.org, he spearheaded resistance to the Keystone Pipeline, and launched the fossil fuel divestment movement. Relocalization may be the most important strategy for minimizing climate change. According to Bill McKibben, “working as communities is the most important thing that we can be doing right now.” In this wide-ranging conversation about the sustainability of our civilization, McKibben shares his thinking about much more than climate change, including the fact that having “more” is not necessarily the key to our happiness. Local food, small farms, suburban isolation, more leisure and less stuff, community connections, and greater satisfaction all come up for discussion. Dave Gardner sat down with McKibben in 2007, shortly after publication of his book, Deep Economy: The Wealth of Communities and the Durable Future, the year before he co-founded 350.org, for this macro-level look at climate change, human behavior and happiness, and public policy. Learn more at http://www.conversationearth.org/durable-future-bill-mckibben-115/ Photo Credit: Steve Liptay

Do we behave rationally? You might be surprised how often our decision-making deviates from what is in our best interest. Behavioral economist Dan Ariely studies human behavior and decision-making. His experiments have led him to startling conclusions. “We repeatedly and predictably make the wrong decisions in many aspects of our lives.” We may be rats in a maze for scientific study, but Dan Ariely puts a refreshingly human face on the scientific study of why we do the things we do. Particularly interesting is his explanation of why worldviews prevent Republicans and Democrats in the U.S. from agreeing on FACTS: “When we have an initial belief, reality doesn’t matter as much as we think. We have an illusion that we’re actually observing reality, but it’s filtered dramatically by what we’re experiencing in our brains, and our expectations.” He had this to say about climate change: “If you were starting from scratch, and you said, ‘Let me create a problem that people would not care about,’ it would look very much like global warming.” Listen to this conversation to find out why! This fun and fascinating conversation explores the decoy effect, inter-temporal choice, hedonic treadmill, identifiable victim effect, behavior substitution, the happiness conundrum, keeping up with the Joneses, and even being choosy about who you compare yourself too. It’s a fascinating journey into the human psyche. Learn more at http://www.conversationearth.org/predictably-irrational/

Robust economic growth has become the Holy Grail of public policy and politics. But some economists and many scientists have come to believe growth has become “uneconomic." Former World Bank Senior Economist Herman Daly explains this in terms we can all understand. Daly co-founded the journal, Ecological Economics, and has written and spoken extensively about the fact that “the economy is a sub-system of a larger system. The larger system being the biosphere – the environment.” In this newly released 2010 interview, Herman Daly postulates that, in a full world, the costs of further economic growth exceed the benefits, and we are reaching a point where it is physically impossible to keep growing the global economy. Using easy to understand, real-world examples, Daly delivers an aha moment. After listening to this interview, one is likely to conclude, “Of course! It’s the environment, stupid!”