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The roundtable is back at it again, but this time we are joined by David Jennings of RareBird101 and Wade Woodard of tater-talk to discuss some topics. Learn how you can be a part of Wild Turkey history by supporting RareBird101 on Kickstarter and if you agree or disagree with Wade on barrel finished bourbon classifications. We wrap up talking about limited editions and store picks because that's always a hot button for all. Show Partners: Barrell Craft Spirits is more than just bourbon, they blend rye, whiskey, rum and have a signature infinite barrel project. Find them at your local retailer. Receive $25 off your first order with code "Pursuit" at RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. Show Notes: The week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about Joy Perrine, the first female bartender to be inducted into the Kentucky Bourbon Hall of Fame. Wild Turkey Kickstarter with David Jennings of RareBird101 - https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rarebird101/wild-turkey-american-spirit News came out this week that the TTB is allowing "specialty whiskey" classifications to adorn the name bourbon on the label. Is this the demise of the bourbon law? Maker’s Mark released another limited edition. From a retail standpoint, isn’t this the easiest money that’s ever been made? When it comes to store picks should retailers care about what’s in the bottle? Taste vs Age, who wins? Will it sell no matter what? Thank you to Blake of bourbonr.com, Brian of sippncorn.com, and Jordan of breakingbourbon.com for joining as usual. Unknown 0:00 Everybody's a lot of chime in whenever they can. Jordan. Unknown 0:05 just lost anyone else. Did you know? All right, I mean, you know when your video wasn't breaking up, you might have saw. Unknown 0:27 Hey everybody, welcome back to Episode 196. of bourbon pursuit. I'm one of your hosts Kendrick Coleman. And this is the Community Roundtable. That means I don't have any news to talk about because all we talk about is the news. On the round table. We get some of the latest gossips and the fun cultural topics that we all love to hit on such as barrel selections, but a little bit news about us. We recorded a live podcast this week with Corky Taylor of peerless distilling company. Make sure that you don't miss out on our live streams and live recordings because we have Unknown 1:00 Another one coming up in May. Make sure you're following us on all our social media channels Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. And you're going to be the first to know when we go live. Are you interested in partnering with bourbon pursuit? We're the most downloaded whiskey podcast across America. Check out how you can get your brand in front of a million bourbon drinkers per year at bourbon pursuit calm and hit the partnership button. Or you can send us an email team at bourbon pursuit calm. Now with that, let's hear a little message from Joe over a barrel bourbon. And then you've got Fred Minnick with the above the jar. Unknown 1:37 Joe from barrel craft spirits here. Barrell Craft Spirits is more than just bourbon, we blend rye, whiskey, rum and we have a signature infinite barrel project. Find us at your local retailer. Unknown 1:50 I'm Fred making this is above the char. If you walked into a low level bar in the 1980s you had a variable Unknown 2:00 little chance of getting a good Manhattan or old fashion or Mint Julep. Most of the bartenders were used to just slinging beer and porn, a little whiskey. Oh, nice or neat. And then came a young woman named joy Perrine. She came from the Caribbean islands where she served as a bartender at St. Croix and made all sorts of daiquiris and various types of from drinks and all kinds of banana frozen concoctions that made the island visitors quite happy. Local had never seen anybody like joy brainy. She stood behind the bar and slung mint juleps like nobody here before. She made Manhattan's and created special syrup that would complement Bourbons, unique to Kentucky. She was so amazing. That Esquire called her the bad girl of bourbon and the reason why she would tell you off if you Unknown 3:00 ordered a bourbon the wrong way in her opinion or if you boasted a little too much about what you thought you knew about purpose Unknown 3:08 because of her accomplishments in life, Joy preening was named in the bourbon Hall of Fame, the only female bartender to be inducted into the bourbon Hall of Fame. When she passed away two weeks ago, I thought about my relationship with a 73 year old. She was quick witted, would always tell you what she thought, but boy that she loved family. She loved her daughter, she loved my family. And I gotta tell you, if you were ever enjoy parade, nice presence and she made you a drink that taste that moment. It would last a lifetime. Unknown 3:47 her longtime employer, Dean corporate, died a few months ago as well. And I like to think that both of them are upstairs right now in the cloud somewhere, sipping on a bourbon Unknown 4:00 hope that I can only add to what Dean and joy did for the local community. And whatever you do in bourbon, whether it's consumer or promoted, I hope we can all live up to the standards that joy Perrine created. Unknown 4:18 And that's this week's above the char. Hey, did you know I got a new magazine out? Go check it out. It's on newsstands now look for bourbon plus and Whole Foods, Kroger, Barnes noble, and a lot of other places where magazines are sold. Hit me up on Twitter or Instagram at Fred Minnick. Until next week. Cheers. Unknown 4:40 Welcome. This is the 31st recording of the bourbon community around table is another favorite of bourbon pursuit because this is the opportunity that not only do we have a variable mix of some of the biggest bloggers and authors in the scene of bourbon here to join us, but we get to talk about Unknown 5:00 recent news and it's also the opportunity for fans for people that are in the bourbon community as well to join and watch this happen live and be a part of the live chat as it goes down so, Kenny Ryan and Fred here from bourbon pursuit team fellas, how you doing tonight? Unknown 5:18 Great. Unknown 5:21 3031 times down we had we had to mess up. Unknown 5:25 question Why do we do with the hardball? Unknown 5:29 Where's the bunnies? I'm trying to count all the towels on the bottom of the screen. I'm like how many people we got Unknown 5:37 is the round table as a bourbon family and I'm here at my cigar family and the lounge, smoking a stogie and just excited to get this going. I'm in my basement, looking at my kids two ways. Unknown 5:52 You know, let's do this pregame. know everybody's got a little bit better atmosphere but this is also the pre game that we're recording this about an hour before the Unknown 6:00 NCAA Men's National Basketball Championship kicks off. For me. I've got to still go with sec. So I'm pulling for Auburn tonight. Ryan, Fred, what about you all Auburn's not playing tonight? Really? Unknown 6:12 Where are you talking about 30 games? Getting? Oh, yeah, you're right. Sorry. Virginia. Virginia. Unknown 6:21 Tech. Yeah, I'm waiting for the one but they found you know, Unknown 6:27 start over from the topic. Unknown 6:31 I'm going I'm going to go actually have Virginia, Virginia. Virginia has had to crazy wins. So, like the probable odds of winning those games are like, not profitable. So probably they're going to win them. Go Texas Tech. Red Raiders. There we go. So we got our first three in. Let's go ahead and kick it off with our Cal Ripken of the Community Roundtable. Blake. Take it away. Yep. Just just continuing the streak all the way through undefeated Unknown 7:00 In the bourbon really count Unknown 7:04 I'm not sure Unknown 7:06 if you play if you throw a pitch and a game you counted as played but no so tonight well I'm Blake from burner burner calm and steel box calm so for tonight's game don't really have a dog in the fight Unknown 7:24 yeah birthday day of being a Florida fam. Ok now go back to back national championships a decade ago but Unknown 7:32 I think it'd be interesting to see Virginia when you know to go from the first number one seed to get knocked off by 16 seed and then go back and win the national championship the next year. That's pretty cool story. Unknown 7:44 Texas Tech and really I just have no connection to other than I'd like that bobby knight coach there for a few years but so my heart would say Virginia but I don't think they are they're going to win. I think Texas Tech actually wins. For going to do a spread. I'm going to say Texas Tech Unknown 8:00 by seven and Unknown 8:03 one up this Yeah. Unknown 8:07 bourbon or pick on that one if anybody wants to me. Oh, nothing's really Unknown 8:14 can I put my mortgage down on it? Unknown 8:17 That's a five star guaranteed. Unknown 8:20 Brian second quarter to go ahead and take it. All right, thanks. Yeah, this is Brian was sipping corn find me at bourbon justice calm or sipping corn calm Unknown 8:29 my team tonight I'm in protest so I'm still rooting for the cats somehow some way but since they can't win since it was robbed from us I'm going Texas Tech tonight the the probability that Ryan was talking about of some of those games that Virginia one and just not being able to put points on the board makes me think this is a Texas Tech kind of night. There we go. Thank you and an honor of one of our topics and one of our guests. I've got a wild turkey 1850 Unknown 9:00 Five the 1.8 proof nice and I've got a drink the rest of it because reminder to people quirks can still break after the initial opening so the rest of this is going down Unknown 9:13 somebody's gonna sleep really well tonight Cheers. Unknown 9:18 Jordan take it away. sure this is Jordan from breaking bourbon calm one of the three guys on the site visits for the Release Calendar. In Depth reviews can also find us on social app breaking bourbon, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter and Patreon. And for the championship game since Dukes been knocked out. I'm gonna stick with ACC and refer Virginia. Alright, and then we've got two other guests that are joining us tonight and they're always familiar faces to the podcast as well. First I'm going to go with Wade Woodard who is he's keeps the Tater library. He's got Tater talk calm. So welcome back to the show. Hi, good to be here. As you mentioned, I'm a whiskey geek. I have a blog side paid or hyphen talk. com Unknown 10:00 I am the compliance officer of the Texas whiskey Association. And we are within the next month launching a Texas whiskey trail with 14 distilleries on the Texas whiskey trail. Unknown 10:13 Let's see the game tonight. I one time was in Lubbock and I had an Aggie sticker on my car and I went into a restaurant and I came back outside and I had to slash tires Unknown 10:27 know I came here for other writers. I guess I had to go over with Virginia tonight and because it's working, you know, I brought out my Monday evening bottles here so I'm having a little while I'll turn feature of you might spark so here's just a poor Unknown 10:48 just happens to be above his computer as we're recording. Unknown 10:54 All right, and then David Jennings of Robert, welcome back to the show. Hey, glad you had me on. Unknown 11:00 Absolutely and you know, give a plug about you know what you do and that'll kind of lead us into our first topic tonight. Okay, well, I have a blog. It's rare bird one or one.com primarily reviews the wild turkey whiskies. I have some articles from time to time, there's resources there with the timeline and bottle codes and this kind of thing. And more recently, I just finished a first draft of wild turkey book, which I don't know if you want me getting into that or not right now. But anyway, I'm just glad to be on as far as a I'm just guys I'm just not into sports as much as you guys so in my house I'm rooting for wild turkey wins every night. Unknown 11:43 Also, the say is like is there something in your life that like doesn't revolve around wild turkey like at some point is your wife or your kids are just like God, we can just quit it just Unknown 11:54 a little bit, but I try to keep it you know, try to keep it in check. So anyway, it's all it's all fun. Unknown 12:00 And it's my passion. I mean, I really enjoy it. So, you know, it's, Unknown 12:04 it's hard. You know, if you're if you don't love something, you're not going to do it every day. But when you're really passionate about something, it just happens all the time. So that's that's my life on a weekly basis. And I David, I gotta tell you, when you when you reach out to me to read your manuscript, I was really honored and to see where you're going with it is fascinating and starting a Kickstarter campaign that is one of the it's one of the riskiest things you can do as an author to go out there and, and do that because you're putting yourself out there everyone's going to see what the donations are. So take us through that process. Why did you choose to go with the Kickstarter route? Okay, well, you know, Unknown 12:49 well, you know, how difficult it is probably back when you first started to get somebody to pay attention to you and and give you some type of publishing deal and or one that's even worth a flip and Unknown 13:00 I didn't really want to compromise. I was, Unknown 13:03 um, you know, willing to entertain, you know, publishing offers and that type of thing. But ultimately, you know, I, Unknown 13:10 I felt like no matter what I did, if I went that route, it was going to take a long time. And you told me, you know, we're looking at maybe February, the earliest, you know, something worked out, maybe later. And so, I felt like this was the year you know, I wanted to get something out there. This is Jimmy's 65th year coming up in September on September 10. And I would love to have a copy of this in his hands by that day. And I thought, well, I think I have a strong enough fan base to get just enough to make that happen, you know, hire a photographer and, and get some designed to have a nice looking book. You know, it's not going to be probably as nice as some of the other hardcover books out there. But it was enough. You know, I thought I could get enough together to make it something worth buying, you know, and I'll be honest with you, setting up Unknown 14:00 Kickstarter, it wasn't as easy as it was, when I set up my Patreon, there was a lot more verification to it, and you know, there was no guarantee that it would be approved. And so I put everything out there and tried to set it up as best I could and just kind of cross my fingers that they would sign off on it. I did. Unknown 14:18 And now and I did the math, and I'm like, okay, I just want to break even, you know, with this, you know, I don't want to, you know, you know, set myself upside down with rewards in this type of thing. So I sat down and did my math. I watched a lot of YouTube videos on how to run a successful campaign. Unknown 14:33 And so I did my research. And so I came up with 30 $500 Unknown 14:37 is probably enough to get the design photography, all this stuff together to get something out their own. We're a book can be purchased on the on demand basis, which I'm sure you're familiar with Fred, but like with Amazon, you can publish a book on demand. So you send them a PDF file, and they print the book as people buy it. And so I was just trying to cover the cost to get the book there. Okay. Unknown 15:00 And so Unknown 15:02 it alarmed me to find out, you know, within 24 hours. I mean, it was like I had like $1,000 already, you know, and then today I hit goal, like, you know, 10am or 11am or something. And I mean, and now I'm at like 40 $500 Unknown 15:21 or something you know, and the Bergen community. Unknown 15:27 Y'all are some good all of y'all. Well, David, I'll tell you, I'll tell you that Unknown 15:33 we will open up their wallets to turn, you know, like they're they do that to people that like, and you've always come off as a very genuine very fun person. And you get to know you and see if it's even more and then you got that South Carolina accent. You know, where's this all in? Bill Clinton Unknown 15:57 when I was sick Yeah. But yeah Unknown 16:00 Well, you know, guys, Unknown 16:03 it's, it's humbling it really is and I really appreciate it and appreciate you know y'all having me on. I'm going to continue with the Kickstarter is going on for another 5756 days or so. And everything you know, every penny I get above my goal is just going to go right back into the project whether I can make a classier book than I originally set out to. Or I can do some marketing. Like, you know, I've been thinking about some ads or this type of thing where I could at least try to, I'm not gonna be able to compete with the big publishers but I can I can maybe hit a target audience better than they can now. You can whip their ass Unknown 16:41 so let's let's kind of decent here today with 57 days left your auto pays to make $256,500 Unknown 16:53 Yeah. Unknown 16:56 Y'all keep talking like that. David, I will give you I'll give Unknown 17:00 Just some economics behind you know, books like I, you know, I've been writing books for more than 10 years now and my first my first my first whiskey book whiskey women, I had like 500 rejections and you know, if I had the access like Kickstarter or had the notion to do that I would have I probably would have done it but my advanced for that was $2,000 and so they don't like that typewriter manuscript Unknown 17:34 actually do Unknown 17:37 that. So you you actually stand you know for what how you're going about this. You probably actually stand to make you know, legitimate money off of it. You know, from from the book sales. If you're putting it all back and look like that's the goal was just to kind of see if I can, you know, upgrade the product because I would love to have something in my hands that is comparable to what you would find will book stand Unknown 18:00 I'm not cutting any corners with the Amazon print on demand. I mean, it's going to be a full color photo quality, highest grade paper that they have is going to be soft cover, unfortunately, because amazon kindle demand does not do hardcover. But if I continue to raise funds like this, I can have the Amazon Kindle demand for an option. And then I might be able to go to like book baby or Ingram spark or something, and print some hardcover additions. And those might have to be on a limited basis. It just depends, you know, but that's kind of where I would like to go with it. Unknown 18:31 The most important thing to me is that I won't something I want something in Jimmy's hands, that's what I want. If I can just tell his story, and of course, you know, there's a story in there and there's a lot about data in there. But if that is what I really won't, because Jimmy is such a legend, and I feel like it's it's his time to get even, I mean, he's had a lot of accolades. I'm not gonna lie, you know, he's had a lot of people Unknown 19:00 Give him various honors. But I think is there's a story there that a lot of people have not heard yet. And I think that this is the time this is the year his 65th anniversary at the distillery. And I really want to make that happen. And I want to make it happen this year. And it looks like it's going to happen now. Thanks to everybody. And I'm a Patreon supporters and, and everybody that's donated on Kickstarter, people that have tweeted, retweeted, done stories on Instagram, Facebook posts, emails, word of mouth, all this stuff really helps, and I really appreciate it. And I can't say thank you enough, I really can't. Unknown 19:34 Well, you've got more time to go here. You know, you, you hit a goal within three days, which is fantastic. You still got 5050 some odd more days to go here. So I kind of want to let you give, you know, sort of one last plug that are sort of on the edge or like maybe thinking oh, well, he's already got his funding, like why should I even bother to promoted or back is still but give some ideas of why people should still back it because of the stories and some of the content Unknown 20:00 You're going to be delivering inside of there as well. Okay, great. Well, again, I want to take any extra funds raised and increase the quality of the product and promote the product. And the purpose of promoting the product is to make sure that the story of the recipes and the Russell's and of wild turkey distillery in the Lawrenceburg area is put out there. And I think like said, it's a story that needs to be told. And it's the right time with Jimmy's anniversary. And then we had the one to one anniversary last year with Jimmy and Eddie's combined service. And so that is the most important thing to me. If it stays a self published thing where it's promoted on my blog, or my, you know, Twitter feed or my Instagram, it will reach people, it just won't reach as many people and so I need to make sure I can raise enough to get it to the right places, like bourbon plus, or something like an adverb plus would be a really cool thing. And so that is that's my goal. So I just have to raise enough money to do that. And I think the other Unknown 21:00 You know, there's content there that you will enjoy. And there's a whole appreciation section to it's not just history so if like history is not your thing if you're like I just don't really, there's there's gonna be a lot of reviews on there are tasting notes, my impression on different expressions, and I'm doing a lot of photography I'm paying for a lot of photography so the book is going to have a ton of bottle porn in it. It's going to have a lot of like cocktail porn. It's just yeah it's just going to be just loaded with excited just loaded with but just good porn at the end and I've got a good photographer so I it's I'm not it's not you know my stuff. Unknown 21:41 I you know, wait, I don't mind hitting up whiskey advocate either, but they're not on the show tonight. Unknown 21:49 I'm going to talk about bourbon. Unknown 21:51 Know your audience and you you talk porn. So Unknown 21:58 let's change the subject back to that. Unknown 22:00 You know, I'd like to get them in the bc i don't know if that's going to happen or not, I haven't really talked to compile it too much other than I did arrange some. Unknown 22:09 Well, at least I started the process of arranging to have the photographer come in and be able to take photographs, and make sure that there's no you know, questions there. Unknown 22:19 But, you know, it would be nice to get them in in the visitor center. I think it'll probably happen in time maybe after it's done and somebody has something to look at. I'm doing a very limited run this week, I sent a local printer Unknown 22:33 the book without pictures to have a just like a mock up late. So it'll be in the eight, you know, the five by 5.585 or whatever, you know, kind of book format digest format, and, Unknown 22:48 and I'm going to send those out to a few people to do some editing and some review. Might you might get your targeted at date for release. And how can how can your fellow panelists here help you okay. Unknown 23:00 I would like to have it completed in time to give it to Jimmy so that would be September 10. I'd have to have it in his hands so September to at least have a run of the book done by local printer so it would be exactly like what would be on Amazon but I can work with my local printer and have that rushed and done quick so I can do that habit FedEx. So you know I guess sep tember first at the absolute latest would be you know my deadline there but out to the world you know I'll put on their December because I didn't want to kind of overextend myself or make promises I couldn't keep because I don't know what the turnaround time is with Amazon and these things I haven't got into that. You know much research on that side because I'm more focused on just getting things done. But I put December but I'm guessing you know, it'd be more like october november sometime sometime like that were to get there before the holidays. That would probably be the best thing to do because it would make a nice Christmas present. I think you definitely want to time it with that. Unknown 23:57 The stocking stuffers they start emulating yeah Unknown 24:00 I'll request that is so that 50 bourbon stones I have. You know, Unknown 24:05 I just I never imagined how much I mean, you don't think about these things like indexing like, you know, like, Fred, someone does your index for you, you know? Yeah, I'm like, I'm gonna have to do that. And like, I started messing with Microsoft Word and I load Microsoft Word. I mean, it's got a lot of features, but it's just it sucks the creativity out of you do don't don't do indexing. I'll connect you with someone who will do it. He's got a great typewriter. Unknown 24:29 Exactly right. It doesn't say like we're getting out of the bounds of even when I even know. Well, thank you for it. I mean, seriously, because I played with it. And I'm like, Oh, my God, I'm gonna kill myself. Unknown 24:39 It was just not I want to create, you know, on the right. You know, I didn't do a review this week, because I was so focused on getting all this stuff together. And I love writing reviews. So it really hurt, you know, to have to take that hit this week. So if you've got someone that can do that, oh, that would be awesome for you to talk offline about the effect of Bernard stuff. I'm sorry. I'm on you guys. Unknown 25:00 Good, let's go on the rails here. So, Unknown 25:03 so I want to say, you know, David, thank you again for coming on and kind of give us an insight about your book for anybody that's wanting to help back as Kickstarter. And you know, with the Kickstarter, you get an actual copy of the book too. So you can get that link in the show notes for the podcast as well. But I kind of want to move it on to the next subject in this is where it kind of all happened in some sort of like Twitter spiral. Fred had tweeted about cast finished bourbon jumping the shark. Wade had a tweet about the TTP telling him that you could add flavor and color is so called a bourbon. And my head was about to explode and I said, You know what, let's just have both of these guys. Come on in and we'll just put it out there and kind of see who who's kind of feathers we can rafal if we're kind of tailing off the wild turkey thing there. So wait, I kind of want to toss it over to you to kind of talk about where where this conversation spiraled out of well, if you haven't bourbon, or a straight bourbon whiskey Unknown 26:00 You put it in a secondary task it becomes class type 641 whiskey specialties is no longer class type one on one or 141 which is bourbon or straight bourbon. And the team can you be has a chart that what products by class type can have flavorings added to them. And when you become a whiskey specialty, you're also allowed to add up to 2.5% harmless color flavoring event blending materials into a product. Unknown 26:33 So I think that's what Fred was talking about somewhat is that you can add these flavorings into secondary cast finished products and you don't have to disclose the fact and then we had a major producer just came out with a Unknown 26:48 bourbon that had been finished partially in wine cast partially and Sherry cask and they acted like they reinvented bourbon and they were calling the project directly on Unknown 27:00 The bottling they do have that you know what was done to it? bourbon finished and partially finished but we need people people like us because we're transparent talk about the product you're talking about. Unknown 27:11 Okay, Jim being legend. Unknown 27:15 So if you go on Twitter and type in legend, every single post, you'll see me posting the actual cola say no, it's not bourbon, whiskey specialties. Unknown 27:29 And this is something you've been on for a long time I've been I've been a lot more kind of just generally, I kinda I liked the category because I liked a lot of taste of them. But I've never really liked the fact that bourbon and straight bourbon are on these labels. And Unknown 27:49 this year at the San Francisco world spirits competition, I think a lot of people know I'm a judge there, and I had the special barrel finish category on my panel. Unknown 28:00 We're tasting these I mean it was like one was like over Sherry read one was over ported one had one was like three different wine cask finishes and that none of them had any notice what note whatsoever of a bourbon and and that was a moment for me that Unknown 28:22 you know where I realized that we're so far removed away from these things tasting like bourbon as a whole that bourbon should not even be on the labeled for the for a lot of these special barrel finishes. And when we create like a distilled spirits specialty or whiskey specialty that allows them to do a lot of the things that they want to manipulate it to remove it from the the actual flavor profile of the original spirit. I don't think bourbon should be on that label is you're starting to see a lot of these independent battlers. A lot of these craft Unknown 29:00 distillers try to separate themselves in the market. So instead of improving distillate or instead of having a good quality bourbon to begin with, they're trying to what they do and rum, which is add things to compensate for the lack of quality in the original spirit. And I gotta tell you, it, it has to have people like Booker know and Parker been rolling in their graves because this is the sort of thing that American distillers fought against in the late 1800s. Again in the mid 1900s. Every time there's ever been an effort to to mess with bourbon distillers have rose up and fought against it. And today, it's the exact opposite. You're seeing the larger distillers you know, push for more of these allowances within the within the federal government, and it bothers me, but I'm going to kind of take a different side of that. Unknown 30:00 You know, we talked to people all the time, every good every that does all the barrel shrink finishes, you're talking the angel's envy that Joseph Magnus is in the world, everything like that. And they look at it is, this is this is a new territory, this is a new angle, this is how bourbon is going to go to the next level because there's new new realms of experimentation. Whiskey is going to go to the next level in their opinion, but it's not bourbon. You know, we have the path back back 100 years ago in 1909, that basically said we couldn't had these adult all degraded spirits. And now we're getting back to, oh, well, let's add this stuff to bourbon again. So Unknown 30:40 I know what you're saying. I know what you guys are saying when when you support the category from a flavor perspective is very good. It's very exciting. But you know, at some point, we have to protect bourbon. And if we do not then so Unknown 31:00 Suddenly this has got there's going to be an allowance of coloring and flavoring to bourbon. And we have to protect that. And that's all this is about. That's always talking about that's all I'm talking about. I love I love the flavor of the angels a lot of the angel's envy products. I love the flavor of the Magnus products. I'm just coming to a point where you know there were there are people in that category who are taking advantage of it straight up taking advantage of it and adding flavor packets to it, you know, saying oh, well I got a little bit of a this is a pork barrel finish I just happen to have an extra bottle of Port there you know, so that is what people who are getting Unknown 31:41 getting flanked by those who trying to compensate for shitty quality distillate devil's advocate not disagreeing but just playing devil's advocate. So I guess more for waiting and Fred, so they come up with a new category called bourbon, whatever that defines the rules, regulations around how you Unknown 32:00 can finish a bourbon would that be something you're open to are now? Unknown 32:05 I would prefer not to use the word bourbon. Call it whiskey call it American last year called some new name. Well, I'm like read it should be protected bourbon. Yeah, you gotta like bourbon. I think I think what you have is them just not following the laws because I don't have a problem and it sounds like y'all do but personally I don't have a problem if they call it Kentucky bourbon finished in whatever barrels but I just pulled this bottle and it says a truly unique bourbon. That's not abiding by the TTP standards. And now on the bottom it says Kentucky straight bourbon whiskey and then a line below it partially finished in wine and share cast. So with that wording, I would have a problem with it. But I think it's you know, for me, I don't have an issue with it saying, you know, bourbon finished in whatever cast because that's what it is. You know, it's Unknown 32:58 pending that they always do that. Unknown 33:00 That those they start marketing efforts where they're just calling it bourbon and leaving off what was done to it confuses the lines and that's what Jim Beam is doing with this product. But interesting I contacted the TTP specifically about this Jim Beam legend product and as the compliance officer at Texas because I have 14 distillers that look to me the same what can we do own labels what's allowed? Wait, America, America looks to you know, Unknown 33:30 again, I want to make sure that the products they're putting out a fully compliant with all the laws and someone we're making some of these products. And so I sent the TT Did you know, direct question, you know, is this Jim Beam label fully compliant with the TTP laws and they basically came back and said, this label is compliant. So the TTP doesn't seem to have any problem with Jim been calling this product, a unique bourbon. Well, I don't know. I don't think I've never met. Unknown 33:57 Go ahead. Sorry. But no, I was just I was Unknown 34:00 I agree with Blake on the bourbon finished in but my devil's advocate question for Fred is Unknown 34:06 it's it's a subjective question to say when a bourbon finished in whatever kind of barrel no longer has the attributes of bourbon Unknown 34:16 so how do you how do you govern that Unknown 34:19 you know I just a bright line know finished it's finished it can't call a bourbon now again I'm not opposed to finishes and I'm not even really opposed to having you know bourbon necessarily on the label. But is it when is it the one is it the main one it's the main word on the label versus an amplified word. I think that it really where you know where we're getting here's here's the thing with with whiskey distillers really human nature's you give someone an inch, and they're going to take a mile Unknown 34:55 No, and that is where we are. I can't I can't remember who Unknown 35:00 What the brand was when I found out what it was, but it was finished in like three or four different tasks, and it was still in, you know, it's still on the shelf as a bourbon. You know, angel's envy is in one casks, whatever you think of them there in one cask makers 46. It's, it's one style, it's got French oak stays inserted, but we start getting past one barrel. I mean that that that's that is where people will start taking advantage of it. And then you're going to get into Celera. And you're going to get into all these other things that the Steelers are going to try to do to take advantage of it to stand out and to have used their marketing tools. You know, to get a very clickbait headline that will run rampant on something like men's health or gear patrol or Forbes or wherever. And that's that and I'm just telling you from a pure like readability standpoint, that Jim Beam story is all over the place. It is Unknown 36:00 All over the place and like what is what is drawing IR from Wade and a lot of other people is that fact that it continues to be called bourbon and, and being so different and it's getting put in that same kind of like innovation innovation bucket, as Unknown 36:19 you know, something like sweet mash, you know, and no one cares about sweet mashing. But to me that's innovation for bourbon. You know, to me that is real innovation. You know, the barrel finishes I again, I love the category. I love so much of the flavor of it. But we're getting out of hand and I just know in ROM, it's a shit show. You know, they say it's a hilarious system. They're not Celera. Well, I mean, the other thing is, is that when we're talking about these finish, Cass you all are no better than me. But I don't think there's a law or anything that states about how empty a certain cast must be, or how dry or how how age it has to be until days. I mean, Unknown 37:00 Could have six bottles of rum left in there or seller or Porter Sherry, it could have a few drops. There's there's nothing to say. Unknown 37:10 rebuild their barrels and then they refill them to write and that's how. Unknown 37:15 Yeah, exactly. Again, that's also what they doing wrong and and you know there's there's nothing wrong with that for for like creating a whiskey and another thing weight is something that is, is is of growth right now our blends we're seeing a lot of blends of various types of burdens. And you know, and this is this is another area where people can slip in a little bit. You don't see blend of straights, you know, what are you getting? So there's just there's just a lot of things where there's this incredible Unknown 37:51 I feel like taking advantage of an eager populace to drink bourbon. Unknown 38:00 Not to cut you off or but you know, it's funny the whole time we're having this conversation. So I think it's almost like the very front line has already been last a long time ago and where I think we'll take like wild turkey honey or Jam Jam stack or anything like that. So and I talked to a lot of people who don't normally drink whiskey or bourbon, right? Let's say, Oh, I had this really good bourbon was like cherry flavored, or I had this really good honey bourbon. I'm always like, oh, and I start to explain to them and they're like, Uh huh. So do you drink that bourbon? And it just goes right over their head, right. Like, the big distilleries. They won that battle A long time ago, because in their minds, people are reading the label. They're already especially with the brand. Yeah, right. And that's not even bourbon begin with. It's just a blend of the corn inverted right now. You know, they last a long time ago. Well, I think one thing we're seeing you ask how the how these products can be compliant with the TTP. If you exceed 2.5% and these flavorings, you would technically have to call it a flavored whiskey. We don't know how much product is in these cast when they add it in. So actually Unknown 39:00 Lot of these products get measured on time. Typically, they're probably exceeding that 2.5% level that's allowed by law to be added to it. So a lot of these products, especially when you start doing multiple casts, like Fred was talking about, they're probably exceed the 2.5% and probably legally should be called flavored whiskies. Wait, I have a question. Is there a definition for cask? I mean, what's the cask? Does it have to be a certain defined barrel? Or can it just be a wooden box mean? What's a cast? It may change soon. Unknown 39:34 I mean, what's a cask now? legally? There is no legal definition for you go. Matter of fact, in the TTP regulations, they call it an oak container. They never even say barrel or carrel cast, they call it containers, but they're changing that container finished whiskey. Unknown 39:55 Jefferson ocean So wait, wait. I'm curious what your Unknown 40:00 Think of this My belief is that if if, if the buck if it stopped with like something as simple as like angel's envy, I don't think we're having this conversation. And we were, I really respect what angel's envy has done, because they never they always are always very transparent that you know, there they are bourbon finished, bourbon finish rye finished and done but I mean, I don't know. I mean Bourbons bourbon by itself. That's the way and I think English stuff should be whiskey. That's just my opinion. Like, maybe I'm too old school because I grew up around it but why not in something man, just bourbon bourbon. You know, right. If you do that, we'd have to have like a whole spin off show of called like whiskey finished in podcast pursuit. You know? It works. Well. Unknown 40:55 Don't do it. Unknown 41:00 You know, but you know, as as we look at what the future is all right, so it things are taking off, and people are getting more influence, you know, throughout the, throughout the consumer base throughout the, the governance. And you know, what does that look like in 10 years, we've seen what this looks like now after really a 10 year explosion of barrel finishes. If in 10 years, this continues to escalate, Unknown 41:28 it is going to be a shit show and bourbon will be damaged. If we hold the line on what is bourbon. And if they would have stopped with angel's envy, we wouldn't have a problem. If they would have stopped at that style. We wouldn't have a problem but it didn't. Unknown 41:44 So I guess to kind of wrap this segment up if there's a call to action for bourbon consumers out there, Fred Wade, like what is what is that action that somebody should take? Unknown 41:56 Well, my saying is, if it's not straight, you must debate Unknown 42:04 He's been he's been teaching that one of Unknown 42:10 the next t shirts come Unknown 42:13 to bottled in bond because that's not getting messed with that's Unknown 42:18 that's even even more that's straight plus face well shit Brian then you're only going to have like 12 whiskies in your bar Unknown 42:26 you think bottled in bond is not getting mess with I my latest blog posts talks about a bottle and broad product really crossing the line and got over the world. Unknown 42:38 Damn cannot ride a way we reached out the way for pursuit spirits. Unknown 42:45 One more thing on this topic though, if people do like these finish whiskies, I did a little experiment recently of trying to make my own at home by just adding a little port or a little Sherry or a little grandma or gay directly to the bottom. Unknown 43:00 And let them married for 30 days and had a panel of 11 blind tasters taste my version versus the commercial versions and two out of the three my versions one easily hand down. So you can make these products at home by starting with a good straight bourbon base. I get a couple of things. One bottled in bond from a label labeling perspective is starting to be Unknown 43:25 you know, kind of mess with whistle pig has a bottled and barn. So you see, you see something like that that's out there. So we've seen flavored whiskies make it through the TTP as bottled in bond. So bottom the bond is absolutely You know, it can be Unknown 43:45 you know, penetrated and and i look at I always go back to ROM when we talk about this, take a look at the state of affairs ROM ROM is a there's not many really genuine pure producers left Unknown 44:00 So if you want if you want bourbon to turn into that, then let's just, you know, let let this continue to go buy more live legend. Unknown 44:11 Absolutely. Well, I mean, I think we, we definitely came away with some some learnings here. So anybody that's out there, make sure you are you're reading the labels, you know what you're buying, and you make sure you're looking at a lot of these guys blog posts because they go in depth and you'll be smarter because of the Unknown 44:30 bourbon pursuit wouldn't be possible without the support of our Patreon community, and with help of our following partners. Unknown 44:39 You listen to podcast, so you know that there's more craft distilleries popping up around the country now more than ever, but how do you find out the best stories and the best flavors? That's why we've partnered with rock house whiskey club. It's a whiskey of the Month Club who's on a mission to uncover not only just the best flavors, but those stories that you want to hear Unknown 45:00 From craft distilleries across the US, rack houses box ship out every two months to 40 states and rack houses April box there featuring a distillery that was located inside a former North Carolina prison. Whiskey prison, home to Southern grace distilleries. It's the prison you'd want to break into. Rock house whiskey club is shipping out two bottles from Southern grace distilleries including it's double gold award winning conviction small batch bourbon, which is the first bourbon ever to legally be age behind bars, go to rock house whiskey club. com to check it out and try bottle of conviction today. Use code pursuit for $25 off your first box. Unknown 45:43 But next I kind of want to talk about sort of the hype train that continues to build just around limited editions and everything like that. And that was because this past week in Kentucky there was the last edition of the Kentucky Wildcats Maker's Mark limited edition a release and makers Unknown 46:00 Mark does one of these every single year it's it's usually in the Kentucky, Southern Indiana surrounding areas, they'll make somewhere between 12,000 to 20,000 of these bottles. And of course, there's just people lined up around the liquor barns and total wines and other stores and the cost goes, and I look at this and I try to view it from a retail standpoint. And I'm kind of curious and kind of look at you all. Is this thing, the greatest scam that's ever been invented? Because it seems like retailers just make so much money over doing nothing like they can just sell a bottle like that in an instant. Kentucky fans will buy anything Unknown 46:39 goes more than just that. I think makers has this down to a science mean they've been not just Kentucky but they do. They've been doing this for years. It's like all right, what sports in one let's roll out the red white or red wax. Let's roll out the different colored wax. Let's slap it on there and people go gaga for it. Right I mean, including Unknown 46:57 the RNC and the DNC convention. Unknown 47:00 Two years ago Unknown 47:03 I've been doing that for a long time to rock the boat bottles for sure. Unknown 47:07 Yeah, Jordan, art. Yeah, there's a long tradition of that. Right. You know, with all the decanters and everything from years past that the distilleries would put out. Maker's Mark seems to be the only one who continues to keep it a long living tradition and yeah, I mean you know, I guess if you see it on the shelf in your dad kind of like bourbon and there's my sports team on there Okay, I'll buy it you know, it's well but I thought you bring up a good point blank, but those decanters were when bourbon really wasn't selling so people are going more from the higher they are in the bourbon right makers money and people are buying bourbon left and right now but they're still rocking it out but people people love it. I mean, you know and and so like about like to justify bottles, those things just sell out automatically, where now they just they have the market cornered because if Buffalo Trace comes out with a Kentucky Wildcats bottle, everyone's like, hold on a second. Somebody else Unknown 48:00 But you know but it just expects that maker so Unknown 48:05 it would be question that I see is that this these newbies out there thank you these are special edition that there's some kind of special bourbon in the in the glass Unknown 48:17 is Unknown 48:19 it's all 12 year old Maker's Mark everybody Unknown 48:23 know that the over over Maker's Mark Unknown 48:27 This is what overload tastes like it's pretty good Unknown 48:32 10 years could you release this Unknown 48:35 suckers and kept buying them for a while and then I realized that that's the same juices I just started using them as mixers like Unknown 48:44 bars like here you go but i think i mean i think certain brands right so you got makers but Woodford doesn't work there during bottle right? Yeah, we'll go guy off for that. I think each brand has their niche and they Unknown 48:55 who was it Secretary that for? Oh yeah, that was Unknown 49:01 That was that was good Unknown 49:04 that Secretary one Penny Chenery the owner secretary, it out that was that was one of the coolest experiences of my career was pick a whooping with her when she picked up on but these things are you know we can bitch about a lot of different things but this is a little bit to me of the spirit of just having some fun. You know it is what it is they've been doing it for a long time. It brings in outside outsiders interested into to the category. It gets new, you know new fan bases excited. I like it. Most people don't open the bottles you know. Unknown 49:45 You get Unknown 49:47 the last one I tried open was the Astros World Series bottle I had to take a blowtorch to. Unknown 49:56 Pretty sure somebody out here wanted a beam Unknown 50:00 Comes bottle and it came out just to the right Unknown 50:05 there you go. I've worked hard to get Unknown 50:08 I mean they could put just colored water in there and No One Unknown 50:13 No One No one else is saying it's kind of like you know we talked about it on community around table in the past of having a sign bottle. You're like well do I really want to open a book open up a bottle it's been signed it's like now you know I'll just open up something else so all those things just gonna sit on the shelf it's gonna be a cool decoration. I opened my son bottles so do i do yeah, you really are rare bird Unknown 50:43 just said he just sent me up so well. Unknown 50:46 Funny pitch right there. Unknown 50:48 Really is a night which bottle will they be making? Unknown 50:54 UVA Yeah, Texas Tech battle. Who knows? marketing. It's just marketing though. I mean it Unknown 51:00 It's not I mean it none of the juiciest are really being like you know enticed by these it's it's more for the you know the mass public that enjoys makers and beam and it's just I don't see anything wrong with it personally I think it's a smart move on their part makers has always had great marketing as kind of their thing you know cheers with him for doing it you know Unknown 51:23 maker says a really big collector seen as well right i mean there's there's guys who just have you know Brian Brian and Unknown 51:32 there's another guy but they you know they have hundreds of these bottles they buy every single one so you know get feed the audience as well which is pretty cool. Almost spent $200 on the Jaguars Makers Mark bottle one time from the AFC know what they did it for wasn't AFC Championship but but you did that because you were a sports fan? Yeah, no. Unknown 51:53 He did that background. He was playing Unknown 52:00 For now through me a touchdown the light was on the bottle my really about to pay $200 for Makers Mark Unknown 52:08 Alright, so I want to kind of just dovetail this into the the last topic tonight and this is again going to be more across on the retail side because I kind of pitch that one is kind of a build up because I look at it in a way that oh it's going to sell no matter what you know, it's it's limited blah blah blah even if it's not limited with 20,000 bottles in one state and you're only targeting us a sports team. It's still going to sell out no matter what. But then we start looking at some things when it comes to something we all love and talk about which is barrel pics and barrel selections. And there's some some retailers out there that they don't care about what's inside the bottle. They will get a barrel sample or they'll get a phone call and they say hey, we've got three barrels. We've got a nine, nine year nine and a half year and a 10 years ago. I just will take the 10 year old doesn't matter like littles will take it because it's age and that's what sells Unknown 53:00 So when so what do you all kind of think of this? Like, do you think that in this sort of this today's market that Yeah, age is going to sell a product? It doesn't matter what it tastes like or anything like that. You got a four roses. That's 10 years 10 and a half years old, it's going to sell no problem. Unknown 53:20 Yeah. Unknown 53:22 I mean, it just does or sorry, go ahead, Ryan. Oh, no. Well, Unknown 53:26 I won't say where we were and who this was for. But when Kenny and our two barrel cake recently, the master distiller we went through 10 barrels, and he picked why they go, Well, Unknown 53:36 this has gone to such and such store and we're like, that one sucks or something. He was like, well, they won't care. Unknown 53:43 Like along those lines, and so it's like, just always make sure where you're buying stuff. You know, who's taking the barrels, because a lot of times they're out there and they're just like, what's going to who they're not here I send them this one, you know, so that's my just take on it. Well, I think I forget who it Unknown 54:00 Was but they're talking about you know the difference between group pics and store pics is a pretty big thing or just trusting the store that's picking it you know we we had that experience that when we did our VCR Buffalo Trace pick there were a couple barrels and there were like this just isn't very good. And we're like you know how what happens these barrels It was like well somebody is going to eventually get these and you know it's just a store who says yeah, give me whatever it's going to sell out no matter what so it's another one of those things where it gets like hyped up hyped up all you got to get store pics you got to get store pics, and then all of a sudden just garbage starts flowing into store pics as well. Now it's like okay, you gotta trust who's actually picking these because otherwise you're going to end up with something that's worse than just what you would find on the shelf. Unknown 54:48 people our age trap, you know, Unknown 54:52 for for something with a big age on it up. I'll be honest with you like with knob Creek pics. The 1314 year pics are just not my Unknown 55:00 thing. Um, I mean, I like a more around the nine year mark from the ones I've tasted. Maybe that's just a personal preference. Unknown 55:07 But like with Russell's reserve, I recently had a pic from Justin's House of bourbon. And I was like, Unknown 55:13 This is amazing. I mean, the finish was a little short, but the nose and the palette was amazing. And I found that it was just barely cracking eight years and I was like, really, and it was from Camp Nelson F, which it from my experience has been very spicy. A lot of draw spice and heat. And this one was real fruity. It was very kind of almost like four roses, like like OBS or something. And I was like, this is just incredible. And he was like, Yeah, man, it was just it was barely eight years. I was worried you wouldn't like it. I'm like, I love this thing. And so you can't really go I didn't know what the age was going into it. And you can't just assume that because it's got double digits that it's going to be good on that is not true. Um, there are plenty of eight nine year picks out there have a various you know, four roses, Jim Beam, whatever that Unknown 56:00 Excellent so don't go by age but a lot of people fall for the trap 14 year knob Creek, you know gotta get it now you know, it's like I don't know you might want to taste it first you know? Yeah, totally agree. Yes Do they trust you they trust who's doing the pics you fall for the age age and they also fall for the proof a lot to right so you'll see the same thing it's like oh, it's high proof that's just as I'll get the highest proof or short barrel Oh, short barrel God. Exactly. Right. So you know, Unknown 56:24 it goes right back to what Brandi said. We got to know the people picking it. Right and just find a flavor profile of somebody else that has a similar you know, tastes as you do and just trust them. Yeah, so elixir spirits here commented in the chat and said it happens quite often. He had an eight year 11 month old SK he took delivery on over a 12 year OBS f however, the SK took one and a half years to sell versus the 12 year which only took six months. So yeah, I think it really boils down to people have this idea of of age statements when they go in and they don't really care. Unknown 57:00 Even said He even told customers that the sky tasted better too. So that just goes, Yeah, and people still buy it. And I think I think this is sort of the thing that we're starting to see. And and what I'm starting to see with some of the the retailers is that they don't they don't care about going and tasting it. They're just like, sure, just get the highest age put in a bottle, it's going to sell no matter what. Unknown 57:25 You don't see age statements on every other thing. So you're like, I think people get excited when they see like a higher age on something. Because your age statements are gone now. So that might be why Well, I think a little bit of this to you know, you're starting to see this is you know, we're talking about this but there's another coin to this is that the distillers are going to the distributors and saying, if you guys don't take this barrel, you're sending us a clear message. These rate retailers are not necessarily doing this by choice mean Yes, they are. Unknown 58:00 selling it but a lot of the bigger ones, you know, they're trying to keep that they're trying to keep their applications and their guys still go in there and get the sweet honey barrels. But they do take on a load that you know that maybe old forester doesn't want a knob Creek doesn't want, you know, doesn't have like a group coming in and selecting them. So it's not necessarily always the retailer's best interest to say no to these larger distillers who are dictating who is getting barrels right now, right? Yep, everybody's on the chopping block. So you got to just take it take what you can get Unknown 58:36 retailer here in Houston that they liked to have store pics, but not with their particular name on it. So they want some kind of designations. I'm going to stick around the bottle and it was a private barrel pick. But in case it's bad, they don't really want to have their name on the bottom. Unknown 58:55 I guess you aged storks sword because you know then people love it. You don't even get to play Unknown 59:00 It is the greatest thing ever. Yeah, it's when you have some side stickers. Unknown 59:07 Of course I go around that stores and randomly throw a little stickers out on that looks like a private barrel. Unknown 59:15 Just just help them run through Unknown 59:18 a bunch of unicorn stickers you know just Unknown 59:22 a unicorn that's that's probably the next good prank that you could probably pull next year April Fools just go to total wine and just start putting stickers on everything and just see what a few pictures out there and just watch people start running. Unknown 59:39 I bet the retailers would actually like that because like social media traction for them. Unknown 59:45 Absolutely. Yeah, press is good press. Good deal. So that's gonna that's gonna wrap it up for tonight's episode. I want to say thank you everybody for joining us whether you're live watching us through the chat and then also Unknown 1:00:00 Thank you to everybody here on the panel that joined us. So Ryan Fred thank you again I'm kind of want to go around the around the horn one more time to let people give an opportunity to do say where you blog and Yeah, kind of start closing it out. So Blake, we'll start with you, buddy. Yeah, Unknown 1:00:16 I'm Blake from bourbon or calm always great to be on here. Good to be back in the full aspect and not just a quick drop in so you can find me on Instagram Twitter, Facebook, do you are Bo and are also check out? seal box calm. That's s e ll be a CH s. We specialize in craft spirits. So check it out. Yeah, thanks for having me guys. Get all your bourbon delivered right to your door. Whether it's finishing a cask or not, it's still good. Unknown 1:00:46 All kinds of all kinds. Unknown 1:00:49 We can Yeah, whatever you want, you know, a lot of Unknown 1:00:54 new roof. Just a barrel landed last week. So that was that was a big one. It's already gone. So your YouTube like Unknown 1:01:00 You can get some of the other numerous stuff if you'd like. Unknown 1:01:03 Good deal Brian. Go ahead, go next. Alright, thanks. Thanks for having me on again, Brian with sipping corn and you can find the sipping corn calm and bourbon justice comm check it out on Amazon and through the comics website. Unknown 1:01:19 Good deal Jordan. You're up next buddy. This is Jordan one of the three guys from breaking bourbon. You can find us on social media at breaking bourbon along with Patreon. This is the site for our daily updates or at least calor along with our in depth reviews. Unknown 1:01:35 Good deal, and we'll just keep going in order we had before. So Wade, you're up next. Yes. My blog is Tater. hyphen, talk calm. Or for the folks that are listening in Texas. They might want to check out Texas with e.org Unknown 1:01:52 There we go. Big things happening in Texas. All right. Always, always, always big things. Unknown 1:01:58 And David, go ahead. Unknown 1:02:00 All right, well, if you want to read some wild turkey reviews, get a rare bird one or one.com. You can find me on Instagram at rare bird one to one, you can find me on Twitter at our bird, one to one. Unknown 1:02:11 And of course I'm on Patreon patreon.com slash we're bird one on one. And I have a Kickstarter as you probably heard about a book I've written about wild turkey. And I want to thank all my Patreon supporters, and the people that have pledged on Kickstarter and all my followers and readers and last but certainly certainly not least, thank you, Fred. Thank you for talking with me and guide me through this process and being so supportive. Appreciate it and I hope that everyone recognizes that you know, as passionate as I as I am about Wild Turkey, bread is passionate about bourbon, so thank you. Unknown 1:02:45 Good thing you're talking about Fred there because I was about to pull like a Bob Barker like the wheels, the wheels. Unknown 1:02:52 You're Unknown 1:02:54 trying hard for that bourbon plus, Unknown 1:02:57 discount. I gotta get that discount now. Unknown 1:03:00 You have private jet ads in there? Unknown 1:03:04 Absolutely. And so make sure you're following course bourbon pursuit on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram. You're also following Fred Minnick at all those different channels and supporting Of course, bourbon plus there as well. Right? Go ahead and close it out for us, buddy. Uber bus now. Thanks, guys for joining us as always, this is the shortest whenever I guess there's something going on tonight or something. Unknown 1:03:28 But no. Unknown 1:03:30 appreciate everyone. I'm a super excited for the rare bird Dave Jennings book. I'm super pumped. So please support that because I think it's going to be a great addition to anyone's bourbon library. But uh, Anyways, thanks, everyone, I guess go Cavs? I don't know. I mean, Unknown 1:03:48 so. I don't know. Yeah. We'll see what happens. Yep. Unknown 1:03:54 Well, with that, thank you, everybody, and we see you all next week. Cheers, bears. Unknown 1:04:00 Good Transcribed by https://otter.ai

It's a dog-themed ep today in every sense of the word! And dog's senses are heightened, so ... there's something to that. Right? Go pet a dog today! And listen to some G-Funk! Writing partners Shannon & Scott tempt the salad spinner of fate as they write a short song about a random topic in a random style of music. Follow us on Twitter @songsaladcast, check out our website, songsaladpodcast.com, and visit our Patreon page, patreon.com/songsalad Streaming on StrangeLabel.com every Wednesday at 3pm EST. Art by Kayla Wasil (@kaylamwasil)

Click above to listen in iTunes... I realized a few years ago that I needed to stop asking people for permission to prove myself... What's going on, everyone? This is Steve Larsen, and you're listening to Sales Funnel Radio. Welcome to Sales Funnel Radio, where you'll learn marketing strategies to grow your online business using today's best internet sales funnels, and now here's your host, Steve Larsen. Hey, how's it going, everybody? Hey, I am really excited for today... First off, it is still freaking cold here. Oh, my gosh, it's so cold. I love motorcycles. I think some of you guys know that. I'm not a motorcycle connoisseur as far as like brand and all the little nitty-gritties of it. What I know is, I like to ride them, and I love to ride mine. Right? I've got a, it's a 2001 Kawasaki Vulcan. It's a cruiser. I wish it was a little bit more powerful. It's only 500cc, but anyway. It's still crazy fun, right? And the snow has been melting here, and the roads are clear, and so in the mornings, I have been riding my motorcycle, and what was funny is, I woke up this morning, and I rode it a little bit last week, and ... Anyway. It was fine, but this morning, I woke up, and I was like, "Oh, man, it's extra cold out. Oh, man, it's really cold out. Oh, my gosh," and since we moved new offices, we were only a mile and a half away at the other one, now I'm out four and a half miles away, which isn't that much difference, but it is when you're on a motorcycle and when it's that cold outside. And I started riding, and I was like, "Oh, my gosh, that is so cold," and I start driving, I start going, I start going, and now I have had a little bit of frostbite before in my life. I was a hardcore skier growing up. We'd go like 25 times in a single season. I started skiing when I was five years old. I don't think you guys know that. I don't think I've ever told you that before, and my dad was going to go be an Olympic skier, and I'll tell you guys more about that stuff later, but ... So we skied like crazy growing up, right? And my hands and my face and my feet are used to that kind of cold abuse. Right? And I was riding along, and I'm not going to lie, but about a mile in, I was like, "My hands are going to freaking fall off. This is ridiculous. I cannot feel anything anymore." I was like, and it starts to get dangerous, you know what I mean? Because your right hand controls the brake. Your left hand controls the clutch. You know what I mean?... Left foot is the gears, right foot, you got the back break. Right? I mean, riding a motorcycle's an involved process, you can't just sit there. And so I was like, "If I can't freaking feel the grip, this is going to be a scary experience," and it was about a mile and a half in, and my face mask starts fogging up. I wear a full mask helmet, especially when it's this cold. I mean, my face would be falling off otherwise in ... That's what it was like when I was a skier, a hardcore skier, but ... Anyway, I get to the office here, and I cannot feel my hands at all, and if you guys have ever had that experience before, I don't just mean like numb, but it's where you got the actual cells in your skin, in your fingers, they start to freeze, and it's a very painful experience, until your hands go numb. They go numb, but then you can tell they're getting extra stiff and hard. You can't really move them, and it starts to freeze, literally, and it's a painful thing to have happened, but it's like 12 times more painful to have them thaw. Oh, my gosh. So I got here to the office and I was like, "Hey, I'm going to record a podcast. I want to jump out to you guys real quick," but I had to wait for like 15 minutes just pacing around the office quickly, because my hands are just throbbing as they start to thaw. It's a ... Anyways, it's an awful experience, and I was like, "Hey, Siri ... " Let me see if ... Hopefully it doesn't turn on. Okay. And I was like, "Hey, Siri," hopefully Siri doesn't hear me, I was like, "What's the temperature?" And it was like, brr, 24 degrees. I was like, "Oh, my gosh, I didn't know it was 24 degrees outside," and I was wearing gloves, but they're these paper-thin little things, so like, oh, gosh, okay. I'm not going to do that again. Anyway... Hey, super excited for today. We are still about ... Gosh. I'm so excited. We're still about a few days away from Funnel Hacking Live, and I just wanted to recap real quick what happened last time. That was a life-changing experience for me. At the time, I was about to ... So this is last February. I was still in college, but I only had a week left of school, and I was getting straight As, and I was ... I mean, I was a ... For the most part, I was a straight A student. I graduated with a 3.85 GPA, and ... Which is kind of a rare thing, but I feel like, because most people are straight A students, I feel like they're really, they're kind of tightwads, and they don't know how to sell stuff, and they're ... I just get really into all the subjects. If something interests me, I'll go learn it and try and get good at it... But anyway, so I was nervous because Funnel Hacking Live was basically during finals week, and I was excited to get there, though. All I knew is, I had to get there. I couldn't explain it, I didn't know why other than it was my tribe. You know what I mean? I knew my tribe was meeting. I knew they were getting together, and I knew there were things that were going to happen there that were going to get taught that would not be taught otherwise. It would be hard for me to learn the things that I was going to learn there outside of the event. You know what I mean? That's why it's so exciting to go. That's why it's so important to go, and I didn't have any money, though. I knew that Russell's going to be opening the cart. This is like, rewinding even more, the last time it was in March, so in like January, he was like, "Okay, I'm going to open up the ... " I think that was in, he's like, "I'm going to sell some tickets and get this thing going," and I was like, "Crap, I got no money." I was a poor college student. I was in the army, I was in ... I mean, there was a lot of stuff going on, my wife. I was trying to just keep up with school, we had two babies. We had, there's so much stuff going on, and that's kind of cool to have met a lot of you guys since starting this podcast. A lot of you guys were in the exact same situation, or are still now. It's kind of cool to bond over that, for sure, but ... And I was like, "Cool, I'm going to go find some guy that I can build funnels for who will, instead of paying me, he will just pay for me to go to the event," and this, it sounds cool, but it was like, man, the execution of that was rough, and so I went in ... Some of you guys are making a mistake when you go build funnels for people, you're trying to prove yourself. You're trying to ask for permission too much. I've done a lot of coaching sessions with you guys recently, and one of the things I've noticed in there is like, "Hey," I'm like, "Hey, now go build for somebody for free. Go prove yourself," and it's like some of you are asking permission to prove yourself. You'll go out and you'll say, "Hey, can I build you a funnel? Hey, can I build you a funnel? Hey, can I build you a funnel?" Right? And that question needs to happen eventually, but the time that it happens does not need to happen first, so what I did is, I went out and I found this guy, and I was like, "Hey, look. What I did at first is, I found a business that it was already succeeding, which makes it ridiculously easy to be successful with a funnel with. ...Hint, hint, hint. Massive gold drop, right there." Right? Go find a business that is already being successful, that, especially if it's eCommerce, it's going to be really, really easy. If they have their own list, that's huge. If they have a social media following, absolutely massive, those are like the big pieces, man. If you got to find a company that's like that and you're trying to prove yourself as a funnel builder, that is one of the magic formulas. It cannot be a new company... Okay? It's very, very difficult to do that with a new company, and you guys know that's kind of my policy. I don't do funnel building with new companies anymore. I tried that for probably two years. Half of that was when ClickFunnels existed. The other half, when it wasn't, and I was using it with WordPress, and it sucked, but okay, so I went out, and I found this company, right? And some of you guys are going at me saying, "Will you let me? Will you let me?" What I did, though, is I said, "Hey, I have an idea. I know you ... I build these things called sales funnels on the internet, and it's kind of a technobabble term. Most people have no idea what it is, which is totally fine. Anyway, your business fits perfectly in this scenario," and he's like, "Really? Okay. Oh, that's interesting." I was like, "I don't expect you to know what this is. I will pay for all the software. I will put everything together for you. I want to build you a sales funnel online... Actually, I'm going to do it for completely free, and I know that sounds crazy, but it's honestly so that I can show you that I know what I'm talking about, and that they work," and he was like, "Okay." And is a company, they sold water ionizers, and they had a whole bunch of monthly products, and they had a whole bunch of ... It was a really fascinating company, actually. Actually, it's still the water we drink here in the office now, with Russell, because I showed it to him, and he's like, "That's cool." Similar to the Kangen Water thing, but they actually work. Oh, man. Anyway. So I went out and I was like, "Hey, we're going to build you this sales funnel," right? And I went out and I built it, and I ran ask campaigns, just like you guys have seen me doing recently, which I should probably give you an update of that at some point, but I was running ask campaigns, and I was gathering all this research, and I was learning about his competitors, and I was all over the place. I was doing, I was funnel hacking, right? I was learning his competitors' businesses better than his competitors knew their businesses, right? It's kind of what you have to do with funnel hacking. It's not about just screenshotting pages. You got to, man, figure out what their margins are. I mean, figure out what the costs are. Where are they getting the ... Who's the suppliers? You have got to know their business as well as the business owner when you funnel hack someone hardcore, if you're actually going for it. Do not do a shallow funnel hack. Right? And be open about it... Don't be sold on those are the people that you're going to go out and build, that's the funnel you're going to go out and build. That was the challenge, is that I was going through saying, "Okay, are these guys actually making money? Are these guys actually succeeding in the marketplace?" Right? And I was going through, and I remember, I would get up crazy early, and I would ... Just like I do now, and I would go, and I'd hide in different places on campus where there was sweet internet, when the buildings were all closed, because I needed to funnel hack. I needed to build, I needed to get this funnel out, right? I wanted to go to Russell's event, and I had to figure out a way to get there, so I freaking hustled. And I went out and I ended up building this funnel for him, and it was a tripwire funnel. I was like, "Hey, let me walk you through it," right? And I just made all these screenshot videos of it, or I'd get on Skype with him and I'd walk him through it, and as I started showing him this stuff, he's like, "Oh, my gosh. I didn't realize this is the kind of stuff you're talking about." I was like, "Yeah, this is what we mean by sales funnels in this industry," and he's like, "Would you take over all of my social media?" And I was like, "Crap, okay. Yeah." He's like, "I'll start paying you for that. Let's see what this funnel thing is first," and as I'm taking over social media, and I'm starting to do posts and all this stuff, he goes, "Would you take over all of the server and tech stuff?" And I was like, "Sure," and I knew I had to do a lot of that stuff, just because I was ... I mean, my dad was an executive at IBM. We built our own like 115-port network inside of our house. Totally geeky, but, I mean, it's fun, and so I knew some of that stuff. He's like, "Would you take over this? Would you take over this?" Pretty soon, anything that had to do with a circuit I was in charge of, right? And so by the time I launched the funnel, I went out and I was like, "Hey, here's the funnel. This is going to be an awesome funnel. Let me show you... It works like this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and the easiest way for this to make money is for you to send an email, a series of emails, out to your internal list," and he was like, "Okay." I was like, "So here's the email. Let's send it out, boom. Let's send it," and so we sent it. Right? And within the first day, it made 20 grand, and in, over the next three ... Because people open their email at varying times. Over the next week or two, or a little bit of time, overall it made I think almost 60 grand, and he was like, "Oh, my gosh," and it was all through my system. It was all through the thing that I built, and I was blown away and was changing my mindset, just I was reframing my brain. I was like, "This is insane. I've never done this before, and I'm proving myself, and I'm ... " He didn't know that I hadn't done all that stuff. He didn't know that ... Anyway, all I was trying to do is prove myself, right? That's how you do a hardcore funnel act. That's how you actually prove yourself for the marketplace, and there's been people that have been coaching with you, like I said, I mean, you guys, you're doing a great job just getting more hardcore on it. Don't ask permission. Just go build it. Right? And that's what I was telling these guys, also, when I built for them, was like, "Look, I know you don't know what it is. I'm just going to build it. If it works, awesome. If not, you'll never hear from me again," and he was like, "Okay." That's an easy proposition as a business owner. Some kid's going to work for me for free, if it works and makes money, then I'll start paying you, and if not, no harm, no foul? It's like, "What?" I ended up rebuilding his entire website into ClickFunnels, building out tons of funnels that hooked from his main website, and, I mean, it was a cool experience. I left right before we were about to launch a webinar, and that's when I got hired by Russell, and ... Man, that webinar was going to crush it. Oh, I'm so sad they didn't launch it, but you're the only one that's passionate about it, and your value proposition goes through the roof, right? So after he started making money, I was like, "Hey, look, there's ... Honestly, as far as payment, it was good for me just to prove myself to you and to myself and to the industry that I know what I'm doing on this stuff, so as a payment, I would love it if you would just pay for my hotel. Just pay for my ticket, pay for my flight," and he's like, "Okay, and so you brought in 60 grand. I can cough up a little bit of that. It's hardly anything, comparatively." And I went, and I went to Russell's event, and I totally miscalculated the days, and so ... The first night, I got my own hotel room. It was this total dump. I mean, it was like a 50-dollar-a-night hotel, and I couldn't get a car, so I was renting bikes on the other side of San Diego, and I would bike, I don't even know how many miles, but I biked a long way, all the way into the event, and so I was kind of sweaty, but I just knew I had to be there. I knew I had to be there, and I remember I ... There was a very surreal feeling, you know like those moments where you just, you are where you are supposed to be, you know? You walk in, you're like, "My gosh, this is it." Like, "I'm, this is ... I don't even know why, but this is it," and I walk on and into the event, and it was the day before ... The day before the event, it was registration, and I walked in, I was like, "Hey, here's my ticket," and they're like, "Awesome." They gave me my name tag, and it was like, "Oh. Wow." And some of you guys might laugh at that, but that's what, it was a huge deal to me. I knew my life would be changed by being there. I did not know why, I could not explain it ... And I walked in, and I was like, "Hey," I got my badge, and they hand over this bag with all this stuff in it, and I was like, "Whoa." I mean, it was like holding gold, I was like, "Holy crap. Wow," and I had biked several miles to get there, and I was biking around the bay, and I was like ... Anyway, it was a really interesting night, and I remember, after they gave me my bag and they gave me this badge and all the stuff, I turn around and there's all these support guys sitting at this table if you had any questions, and I walk up, and I think some of you guys heard the story, and it was actually Mark Bangerter. I'll tell him that I mentioned him, he sits on the other side of the window from me over there. He's like, "Hey, who are ... " Oh, and he looked at my name tag and he goes, "Wait a second, are you that guy who's pulling off all that Star Wars ninja crap on our software?" And I was like, "I don't know." And he goes, he's like, "Where do you work now?" I was like, "I graduated on Friday," and he's like, "Are you kidding me?" I was like, "No." He goes, "Get this kid an application." He's like, "What have you been doing?" I was like, "Well, lately, I've been building up a CRM with Infusionsoft that integrates with ClickFunnels back and forth," and he was like, "Oh, my gosh. You know Infusionsoft?" And I was like, "I've set up," and that's where, the company that I built a funnel for, that's where it had turned into. They wanted me to build up the CRM, despite me telling him how much they did not need it and how much of a waste of money it was, and how much it did not work, and how hard it was for it to do everything, they still wanted me to use Infusionsoft and go and integrate ClickFunnels with Infusionsoft, so I ended up doing it. And so anyways, Mark was like, "Holy crap, you know this? Man, get this kid an application," and I got asked to apply to ClickFunnels four more times throughout the event. Four more, and the peak of it all was when Russell gave the speech for certification, and he stood up and I knew I wanted to be certified. Again, part of that whole, I don't, mystical crap, whatever, but I knew I needed to be certified, and Russell stands up and he goes, "Okay, we got this thing called certification. Here at the event, it's eight grand. Besides here, it's going to be ten, and basically, by the end, you're going to be making a butt-ton of money," and I was like, "Cool." I already love ClickFunnels, I already know I'm pretty good at it, I already ... Part of it was my background in layout and design in high school. I was a head editor for yearbook, I designed all the editors in InDesign with Adobe, and ... Anyway, I'm kind of rambling now, but all I'm saying, guys, is this event is a big deal, and for those of you guys who are going to make it, I'm really excited for you to be there, and this isn't like a, I'm not trying to ... There's no affiliate link here. There's no ... I'm just really freaking excited. This event changed my life, and this is one of my ... I look more forward to this event than I do, like, Christmas or my birthday, all right? People's lives change here... Now, for those of you guys that are coming, my dad's going to be there. He's, we're building out his product for the financial ... It's called financialinvestingsecrets.com. He's got a futures trading product... I think I was just telling you about that, but anyway, all I'm trying to say is, I'm super stoked that you guys are going to be there, and when you come, already have ... For those of you guys who are just starting out, already have funnel hacked somebody, all right? That's the ... I'm trying to think of the easiest ways you guys can get the most out of it when you're there. Anyway, guys, it's going to be a great experience, and I'm excited to see you guys when you're there. This ... You know what, I'll just bring it full circle here, all right? So when I was at the event, I heard Russell give certification, and I was like, "I got to figure how to ... I do not have eight grand. I barely made it here as it is. Somehow, I don't even know how, but I'm going to make it work." Right? And I ... Some of you guys know I'm religious. I went back to my hotel room and I said a prayer and I was like, "Heavenly Father, God, I've got to get to certification. It's the next step for me. It's what I'm good at. It's what I do for Russell, I'm his funnel builder. It's what I'm good at. I've got to figure this out." And he didn't know who I was yet, and he had no idea who I was, and I walked back into the room and I kind of had this feeling like it's all going to be okay, and I walked in there and I started talking to some of the other certified partners, and I was like, "I got to make this work," right? And I started talking to Nora, who's a ClickFunnels employee, and I was like, "I got to make this work," and she's like, "I feel like you got to make this work," and I was like, "I'm trying to make it work," and the Hackathon started shortly thereafter. And I went downstairs, and there was a whole bunch of people, all of their computers set up, a huge noise going over, the smell of pepperoni pizza all over the place, people are staying up crazy late funnel building, and there was a guy there, a ClickFunnels employee who was, I won't name him now, but he was sitting there and he was building something, I saw what he was building, and I was like, "I can build that faster." And I pulled up my computer right next to him and I was like, "I'm going to beat him," and I just started hauling and all these people started watching what I was doing and I was beating him on this funnel hack using the editor, and I was, I mean ... Anyway, I'm very competitive, and I eventually met this lady whose name's Nora. She was in charge of the certification program, right? And she was like, "Oh, I'm super impressed with you. Oh, my gosh, you got to ... You've done that and that and that with our software? Oh, my gosh, that's crazy. You're in college? Oh, my gosh, I need you." And she's like, "Let me introduce you to Brent," and I go and I get introduced to Brent and Brent's like, "Cool, why don't you get ... Why don't you go apply? That'd be awesome," "Sounds good," and I was like, "Okay, sounds good. I'm literally going to go be the CMO of this other company they're building funnels for and on Friday, four days from now," and he was like, "Holy crap. You're graduating that fast." He's like, "Please apply." And the last night, I stayed up the entire night, the event was over, right, and I remember just, I needed to just act, I needed to act, and I was definitely the last person at the event. I was definitely the last person to leave the hotel, and my flight didn't leave till the next day, and I stayed up the whole night making this video explaining to them why they should hire me. I don't think a lot ... That's probably the part of the story that you have not heard. Russell's told the story before and he's like, "Hey, he stayed up the whole night because he didn't have a hotel room." Well, there was a hotel room that I got, and it was a junky piece of crap one, because I didn't have enough money for another one. I could've stayed there, but I ended up just staying in the hotel where there was good WI-Fi, and I worked my butt off, and I funnel hacked, and I built a brand, and it's actually where the basis of salesfunnelbroker.com came from, that night, right? And I created this huge, amazing video. It was only about, they only wanted a seven-minute one, so I was like, "Okay, cool," so when I made it, this awesome seven-minute video, and I'll put that video in the show notes as well. Ooh, that'd be kind of cool. All right, I'll put the video in the show notes. And I went back to college, right, and I sent the application in, right, the night before I left San Diego, and on Tuesday, right, I came back on Sunday. On Tuesday, I got a call from Brent, and he's like, "Hey, man, just saw your application. Crazy impressive. I loved it if you came down for an interview," and I was like, "Cool, I'm in the middle of finals, but what if I drove over there?" And he was like, "Okay," so I drove from, it was about four and a half, no, it was about, yeah, about five-hour drive, and luckily I'd been doing so well in my classes I kind of just left, and I went and I stayed the night somewhere and then drove into ClickFunnels headquarters the next morning, and I walk in there and Brent's like, "Hey, how you doing, man? Looking sharp. Thanks for dressing up," and we chatted for a while, and he's like, "Hey, would you go sit and just wait for a little while?" He and I talked for a while, he was like, "Would you go away for a while and Russell will come in, you'll get to meet him," and I freaked out. I was like, "I get to meet Russell Brunson? Oh, my gosh," and I started freaking out. And I went, and I started sitting in another room. I was just trying to make conversation with another guy, because I was freaking, I could not believe that I was about to meet the man who had already changed my life, and such incredible respect for him and what he's doing. Most entrepreneurs get pretty cocky... Most entrepreneurs get pretty all about the money, and, no joke, I mean, he, the guy wants to make a lot of money, it has nothing to do with not wanting to, and he makes an absolute insane amount of money, but he is more about helping people, and I'm all about that, so it was really kind of cool synergy there. But anyways, he walked in, and we met, and we had an hour and a half conversation. We talked for an hour and a half face-to-face. It was so crazy cool, and at the end of it, before I left, he sent a message to Brent, and he's like, "I want that kid. Do whatever you need to take, do whatever you need to be able to get him." And I was like, "It's Wednesday. I'm supposed to leave on Friday for Florida," and he's like, "Well, what are you going to do?" I was like, "Well, if you offer me a job, I'm coming here. I'm not going to Florida, I'm going to stay here, and I'm going to go ... " Oh, man. Anyway, anyway ... All right, guys, that was a long episode. I just wanted to tell you guys how stoked I am for click, for funnels, for... ... Anyway, this is a long episode, and I want you guys, when you who are, those of you who are coming, I want you to come and know that this is something, expect that it will change your life. Expect it, right?... I do, I did, it did, it has, and I'm really excited to meet you guys. Definitely say hi to my dad when you guys are there. I'm just, he's just getting introduced to this world, I'm just introducing him to people, so that'd be awesome too, but ... Anyway, long podcast there, but, anyway, hope you guys enjoyed it. Super stoked. If you want to turn those intro things into your own alarm clock, go for it. That's me getting stoked every time, every morning to do stuff with Russell, but ... Anyways, guys, I will talk with you later, and, yeah, I'll talk ... All right, well, see you guys. Bye.   Thanks for listening to Sales Funnel Radio. Please remember to subscribe and leave feedback. Want to get one of today's best internet sales funnel for free? Go to salesfunnelbroker.com/freefunnels to download your prebuilt sales funnel today.