Podcasts about so blake

-Welcome to Bachadmia. We are at the end of another season of the Bachelorette and we have two very special guests with us today: Sue and Denell (Bill's Moms!)-Question of the week! What do you get bored of? And what could you never get bored of? -The episode begins with a recap of Katie's journey leading up to her argument with Greg, him leaving, and her questioning whether to stay. The next day, we see Blake and Justin waiting for a rose ceremony speculating about what happened to Greg. Enter Tayshia and Kaitlyn who let them know Greg left. Blake seems relieved at the news and smiles a bit. Justin seems much more worried. Katie seemed so upset over Greg leaving but by morning seems ready to proceed as if not much happened. Katie and Blake go on a date. They play with paint filled water balloons and then head to the hottub. In the hottub Katie tells Blake (sort of) what happened between her and Greg. Basically, she says I really connected with Michael and he left. I really connected with Greg and he left. -So Blake is feeling a little off because of the Greg thing but that doesn't stop him from telling Katie he loves her. It is sweet but takes, like, fooooorever. And then Katie responds by saying “I effing love you too”. Ok. -So this feels like a lot after her holding out on Greg. -So they go to the fantasy suite and apparently have a satiating night. As she chats with Kaityn about it the next morning, Kaitlyn's like, “Ok, but remember how Justin is still here.”  -So she goes and breaks up with Justin. -So Blake meets Katie's family: her mom and her Aunt Lindsey. Her aunt gives Blake hell and it is sort of hilarious until you realize this is probably real life. She asks him why he flunked out of the other seasons. Makes a vibrator comment. She also asks some very real and important questions about their future plans and it turns out they really have no idea about the future. -So Blake is super nervous, having some doubts about if engagement is really the best next step for their relationship (uh, duh) and forges along and picks out a ring. This poor man is stressed. (also, he is basically talking about proposing with his ex-- if you can call Tayshia that). -So it is time to wrap things up. Katie professes her love for him. It is quite lovely. He rambles and you go back and forth between thinking he is proposes and then thinking nah. At one point, he says I may not be able to give you what you want today and you can tell that Katie is a bit disappointed but trying to be cool. And then boom! He gets down on one knee. We celebrate. Sort of.Cause it all feels very weird.-So then we return to the ATR. They bring out Greg. He says pretty predictable things. He is glad she found love. She taught him a lot. He loved her. He's glad she found her person. Then they bring Katie out and it is cold. Katie is piiiiissed. She accuses Greg of talking down to her, gaslighting her-- which she defines as making someone think it is their fault, abandoning her, acting. Whoa. -After things with Greg wrap up, they bring out Blake to celebrate the happy couple. People on the internet were commenting on how they felt her affection for Greg felt forced and a bit aggressive. Others think their chemistry is undeniable. -Can we pleeeeease talk about that BIP preview!! I'm so excited. OMG Demi. JOE! More aaron/Thomas drama. I can't wait.Lesson learned.-Sue and Denelle-- Any shoutouts? 

What if you could increase your revenue but without increasing your customer count? Today's guest is here to show you how you can grow more loyal customers that not only buy more from you and more consistently, but also become brand advocates to share your company with others. Please welcome Blake Binns. 0:55 - Are of Expertise of Blake Binns 4:18 - Blake's Journey 9:08 - Concept Differences 13:27 - Think About the Customer Experience 17-13 - Importance of Intent and Where Do you Begin Contact Info https://goodadvicecoaching.com https://www.linkedin.com/in/blakebinns/   Mr. Blake Binns. Thanks for jumping on learning from others. How are you doing? Hey man. How are you doing? I'm good. I'll um, before we hit record, we we're talking about very masculine things and beard. So, um, naturally. Yeah. Yeah. That's funny. You, like you said, it seems like every time we have a guest that, um, one of us has a beard than, than. You talk about beards, you got to man. Well, you know, it's, it's, I feel like all of us, or maybe I'm projecting. I feel like when I was a kid, like all of my friends, none of us could grow beards. And so now that we are all at the age that we can find, I mean, I think it came in at like 25 and now that we're at the age that everyone can have a beard. Now we just like explicitly make sure to like, when we see someone's Beaver, like it's a nice beard to a stranger. I'm sure. I'm sure strangers are like, what's wrong with you? Like, why are, you know, Thanks. All right. So Blake, um, I asked our guests two questions. Question number one is what's your area of expertise and what are we gonna learn from you today? Yeah, so I run a business coaching company called good advice and really the sweet spot for our company is we help companies build their 1000 raving fans, which is a very basic concept that comes from the thousand true fans concept. And it's basically, how do you really grow a business where your customers love to buy from you again and again, and again? And it's not just your external company customers, it's also your internal customers. Meaning how do you have employees who really love your company? Uh, which is especially true right now during COVID, because frankly there's a lot of employees who are like, do my company sucks. Like they did not keep take care of me at all. Um, so, so essentially we're we're growing businesses is what we do for a living. Okay, cool. Yeah, I actually have, um, uh, I want to dig pretty deep on that, because like you said, it's applicable to the current economic environment, but not until I ask you question number two, which is, what do you suck at? Like, well, we probably should get my wife in here cause she would, she would probably tell you, you know, it's funny because. I, I was doing, uh, a personality test with some people. And there were like all these flaws that showed up and I was like, I was like, this test sucks. And so I got home, I got home. Sure. Her name is my, my wife's name is joy. And I was like, can you believe how jive this test is? And she's like, Oh yeah, that's all you sure. I would say I probably I'm super sarcastic. And so I'm, I'm pretty sucky at like going deep with people. Like it's hard for me to like, not make a joke. And especially like when my wife is like really feeling raw about something and I make some comment and she's like, all right, I'm calling my sister. Listen. Yeah. So I would say, aye. Aye. I mean, I can have deep conversation and not that all the therapists listening are like, what's wrong with this guy? I just, I just like humor, you know, I just like to make jokes and I dunno, it's just my personality, I guess. So I was, um, we were talking to Todd Hartley, I guess the other day. And, and, uh, he runs this big company. He was kind of saying the same thing. He's like, man, when I'm in meetings, like I'm just waiting for the punchline. Like I can't stare at spreadsheets and numbers and the whole time I'm looking for jokes, let's see. Isn't that kind like, you know, you think about it and like so many meetings get so in the weeds, you kind of need that person to like. Bring people out of it and be like, okay, let's, let's actually lighten up and really think about what we do. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So a thousand raving fans, um, I'm familiar with concept and I assume that some of the people might, even if they're not familiar with concept, they they're probably familiar because of like the what's what's the other thing, a hundred. Your dream 100. So I assume it's like, kind of, yeah. There's tons of variants of it. Yes. I say that with me having a variant of it. I mean, it's, it is very intuitive. I mean, it doesn't take it. Doesn't take rocket science to understand the concept. Uh, but in case maybe your listeners aren't fully familiar of it. The bottom line is. To, to grow a sustainable business. You don't need to chase thousands and thousands or millions of customers. What's actually more profitable and sustainable for your business is to build a tribe of people who love your brand and who actually will buy from you over and over and over again. And it there's a lot of, um, uh, you can get really into the weeds on the details of looking at like the. The value of a return customer versus what you spend to acquire a new customer. Um, all of these things together, kind of what build this, um, very common strategy in business. So how did you get into specializing in this? So I was working for a consulting. I was an executive coach at a consulting company here in Northwest Arkansas, um, which I got to plug Northwest Arkansas for a second. Cause anytime I mentioned that people are like, actually I mentioned that the other day and someone was like, Oh man, I was in Phoenix the other day. And I was like, okay, well that's Arizona, you know, you got the a right. You know, but, um, so people really mix it up. Oh yeah, man. Well, you know, the South is, you never know what state you're in, I guess. I don't know. But, uh, comments, I get comments like that all the time or, you know, they're like, Oh, what's even in Arkansas. And I'm like, well, that's a fair question, but. In Northwest Arkansas, we actually have the headquarters of Walmart, Tyson, JB hunt, three really awesome fortune 500 companies. And so probably about four years ago, I was working as an executive coach for this really awesome consulting company in our area. And we were serving companies like Walmart, Tyson, JB hunt, these other companies. But part of what was happening in this process was I was realizing that. We were leaving a lot of money on the table by really not nurturing the relationships we had. We were kind of all over the place. And so whenever I left that company, I kind of had that in the back of my mind. And when I went on to start good advice, I started working with business owners who. And this is so true in business. I'm sure you see this all the time as well. There's, there's nothing, there's no new concept in business. Like a lot of this stuff is really, um, basic. It's easy to understand. However, it's hard to actually implement. And so I started working with business owners and I was just, I was just talking about growing businesses. I wasn't even talking about raving fans. But it starts talking to business owners who were doing things that were, so they were, they were in such opposition of the concepts. So here's a great example. I was working with a guy who sells, basically sells protein powder and he had a customer who, you know, the average customer buys like a, a, um, A two quart container of protein and it's maybe like 20 bucks, 30 bucks or whatever. Well, he had this one customer who bought something like $300 worth of protein powder. And then the customer asks and you know, those little like obnoxious plastic, uh, cup things that, you know, they get lost in the protein powder. You can never find it. I, yeah. Yeah. Well, so I say it, like, I work out, like, I just know what I know about it. So. You had these really obnoxious little cups, they get lost in the protein powder. Well, this customer says, Hey, could I possibly get a couple of extra just since I bought so much? Um, sometimes I typically lose it. Would it be okay? Well, this business owner got so offended and talking to me was like, I feel like my customers taking advantage of me that he's trying to get an extra buck out of me. Like, how do I tell this person? No. And I'm like, You know, you're crazy. What are you doing? And I'm like, how much does this little plastic thing costs you? And he's like, well, it cost me. Yeah. It cost me, pennies cost me nothing. And I'm like, what, what is wrong with you? You need to tell them. Yeah, of course you can have these cups, like, absolutely thank you for your business. And that's an extreme example, but, but over and over and over again, I was seeing business owners who were really tanking their company by not. Not understanding what good customer service looks like and really, how do I really retain a really incredible customer rather than, um, actually I had one business owner who was like, well, if they don't like what I'm selling, they can go somewhere else. And I was like, well, they, they, they will go somewhere else. That's, that's how business works. And so I would say over the last couple of years of my business, it's really sort of, it's just been a passion project for me. I've kind of just. The business has evolved to really hone in on and you need to be building those raving fans. If you're going to have something meaningful. All right side. Now on the protein guy, because I'm in that pain. I see the, I ha I am that problem customer, but I don't know if you still talk to the guy, but you know, what you need to do is, is I can't remember who does it, but I've seen brands that they have a little slit underneath the lid and it slides in. And so it just stays there. So then when you take off, it's just there. Yeah, so that would be great. But see, here's, what's funny about that though, is that maybe I bet that top the plastic top for that container, I would say that top maybe cost them an additional maybe like two or 3 cents, like nothing, but this type of business owner would cause again, these types of people are so cost cutting focused that we'll let the customer experience suffer. That kind of person wouldn't ever, it would never indulge in that kind of idea, you know? Um, All right. So, um, what type? So I imagine that some of the listeners are thinking like, okay, this sounds cool. Um, you know, Sure Blake, a thousand thousand or eight pounds is all I need, but I am the guy or the woman that sells two millions. And my sales is based on volume. So is there like a difference in this concept of businesses that do low dollar high volume versus high dollar low volume? Because it sounds like it makes more sense for K you don't need as many people, but you have a higher ticket. Item. Well, I would say don't get lost in like the details of like literally how many customers, like, for example, if you have, if you are closing 10,000 customers a month, you know, on some, on basically a product that's nine 95 or whatever, you know, it's, it's not like, Oh, this doesn't apply to me. The concept at its heart is how do I take someone? And on like the funnel of how they perceive my business, how do I build enough trust with them and give them such a great experience that they will buy from me again and again and again. So like Amazon's a really great example of this, Amazon it, in terms of like the two day shipping, that's really, it, it's a great. It's a great offer, but now you have other companies like Walmart who are offering the same thing. What Amazon does that makes them so valuable in the customer's mind is anytime you need to return something, I mean, you could do it. You could snap your fingers. It doesn't matter. You know, if it's open, it doesn't matter how you've used it. Nine times out of 10, if you try to return something on Amazon, it's a no questions asked. Sure. Send it off. We'll get it returned. What have you, that creates a lot of trust in the customer's mind and it makes them more likely to buy from you. So it's, it's less about how many customers you're dealing with. And it's more about how am I crafting an experience that someone says, okay, wow, this wasn't just a transaction for me. I'm actually, I'm interested in this brand. Now. I I'm excited about this brand. And another great example of this would be something like Chick-fil-A. Um, here in the South Chick-fil-A is like, it's like, God, I mean, people are, you mentioned Chick-fil-A people lose their mind. You have people who are so, um, just jazzed about Chick-fil-A, even though they're doing, you know, they're serving millions of people. And you don't have to work hard to see how many times Chick-fil-A

This week we should be discussing the anticipated Black Widow, but due to COVID19 and theater closures, it has been pushed. So Blake and Terrence are joined by Harley and Angela from the Fake Nerd Girls Podcast to talk about what they want from the movie, if the push will affect the box office and their new podcast. Listen and subscribe! This was recorded while practicing social distancing during the COVID19 pandemic, so we apologize for any sound hiccups due to our internet. Leave us a review and share the show!

This week’s Bourbon Community Roundtable touches on lots of good hot topics. We look at MGP's stock as it continues it's downward trend with our thoughts on how this will play out for them. Then we talk about sourcing in general and if consumers are getting oversaturated with the same bulk market products. Stickers are always a fun subject, but this week there was one released that got national media attention. Will distilleries crack down on stickers? Lastly, we congratulate Old Forester on it’s revamp of the barrel program and cap it off with our most annoying bourbon terms. Show Partners: Barrell Craft Spirits is always trying to push the envelope of blending whiskey in America. Learn more at BarrellBourbon.com. Receive $25 off your first order at RackHouse Whiskey Club with code "Pursuit". Visit RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. Show Notes: This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks more about smoked grains. Breaking Bourbon announces Stagg Jr. as their whiskey of the year. Let's discuss. What do you think about the MPG losses for the 3rd quarter in a row? Is the bourbon market oversaturated with brands? What happens when the aged whiskey runs out? Let's discuss the effect of stickers on bottles. What do you think about the New Riff Pitino sticker? Sticker predictions? Brown-Forman comes out with a barrel proof single barrel program for Old Forester. What is taking everyone else so long? What's the most annoying term in bourbon? 0:00 Kenny didn't did my over talking on the sticker thing. get in the way of getting the opportunity to talk about vodka. 0:11 I guess so, 0:13 son of a bitch. Yeah. Hey, I got it. I got it. I got to dial it back a little bit. Man, I really need to talk about vodka on this show. But how much I hate it. I've never done that before. 0:35 Maybe one it's Episode 237 of bourbon pursuit. I'm kidding. And here's some of the news. You know, we've been keeping up with the talks of the trade war going on. And however President Donald Trump and his French counterpart president Emmanuel Macron, have agreed to hold off on the escalating trade war. And this is now avoiding what would have been a massive tariff increase on French goods such as wine, cheese and handbags, Trump and threaten the new duties and retaliate. 1:00 For a tax slapped on revenue earned in France by American tech firms such as Facebook and Google, the two sides will hold off on potential tariffs until the end of the year, as French officials have said and negotiations over the digital tax will continue at the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. A 25% tariff still remains intact and in place due to separate trade disputes related to Airbus numbers are starting to come in for visits to distilleries across Kentucky, and Sazerac, who is not a part of the Kentucky distillers Association has released their numbers earlier this week. The distillery ended 2019 having a record breaking 293,996 visitors during the calendar year. This is a 35% increase in visitation over 2018. And as you know, there is currently a $1.2 billion investment going into everything around Buffalo Trace, including producing more whiskey but also expanding the visitor center. The expanded Visitor Center will be utilized together 2:00 A bit more distillery archives. And as the expanded space will back up to the recently completed fermenter expansion, the visitor center will have a backdoor access to the whiskey making process allowing for new and updated to a routes. The expanded space will also supply another place for event locations for hosting evening parties. Now for this week's podcast, this roundtable touches on a lot of good subjects, we look at the stock of MGP as it continues its downward trend, and with our thoughts on how this is going to play out for them. Then we talk about sourcing in general and of the consumers. You and I are getting oversaturated with some of the same products that we see on the bulk market, and stickers. It's always a fun subject. However, this week, there was one that got released that got national media attention. And does that mean that distilleries are going to start cracking down on them? Who knows? We'll find out and then we congratulate old forester on the revamp of their barrel program. While we cap it off with our most annoying bourbon terms. Are you interested in this 3:00 See what sort of barrel pics we have going on. Right now we are still set to select an old forester whistlepig to Buffalo Trace barrels to four roses barrels and a new roof barrel this year, or aiming to do somewhere around 20 barrels this year and you can get in part of the action as well. Not only just getting a chance to have a bottle from the barrel pick, but you could also be on this selection team. Go to patreon.com slash bourbon pursuit and you can learn more there. Alright, it's that time once again to see what Joe over barrel bourbon has to say. And then you've got Fred minich with above the char 3:35 it's Joe from barrell bourbon. We're always trying to push the envelope of blending whiskey in America. Find out more at barrel bourbon com 3:43 I'm Fred minikin. This is above the charm. Last week in my above the char I talked about smoking the grains before distilling them and how that is changing the character and the flavor profiles of bourbon really all American whiskeys 4:00 And I asked a question in the barrel finishes, we bring up a stink as to whether or not those are really bourbon. I asked, should we start asking ourselves are the smoked grayned Bourbons, also bourbon. Now they technically meet all the qualifications but there was a time in American whiskey history in which they tried to dictate what types of grains were used and where they were coming from. So the question is, because smoking the grains changes the character so much it takes a big right or left hand turn on Kentucky bourbon, Should we open that up? And we got a really good email from Jason Lambert. He's the lead distiller at came and spirits company in the Grand Cayman says he's a big fan of the show. Thank you very much for that Jason. And he, he says, When you think of bourbon, you often think of this as tradition in history. But when it comes to smoking grains, I think 5:00 Industrial kilns were mainstream and most all malls were smoked to stop germination. In this respect, a smoke bourbon would be welcomed with open arms. So as long it is properly labeled, however, this would open a Pandora's box to include grains like the smoke corn, you discussed about MB rolling. But again, I should 5:24 I think they should be accepted as long as it is very clearly labeled. Now, Jason brings up a great point. And I think that is always my main concern is that consumers are not deceived. And that's what has happened in a lot of whiskey labeling is like somebody will follow it to a tee, and then someone else will take advantage of the equity that that one person has built and do something like dump a gallon of sherry in there and then call it it's Sherry finished barrel. The Sherry finished blend or 6:00 Whatever. And you know, when it comes to the smoking of the grains, I just want to be, I just want to make sure that consumers are protected. And the fact is, is that people will do things that they can get away with. So as long as people are, you know, making note on their labels that they're using smoke grains, I don't think we have a problem. But the minute that someone comes out and is pumping mosquito smoke or peated Bourbons into the market without notifying the consumer, that's what it is. 6:35 That's when we have a problem. Because what will happen inevitably, someone will taste that product, and then not like it or like it, and they'll expect that's what bourbon is supposed to taste like. You have to remember that when we talk about consumers, we're really talking about, you know, one or 2% of the consumers, people who are not necessarily engaged in whiskey at all. We're definitely not talk about people in this podcast. 7:00 But when people are arguing for class action lawsuits that somebody was deceived or something, they find like a small amount of people to prove their case. And that's what I'm talking about here. I imagine someone going to some some place like Walmart that's where attracts everybody and they grab a bottle of what they think is bourbon, they go home and taste it and it tastes like smoke or tastes like pee or something that the tourism away from buying another product of bourbon because what they think of in their head is bourbon is that smoke flavor that they didn't like, and so they go back to Crown Royal or vodka or gin or whatever it is never giving something like Evan Williams a shot even though Evan Williams doesn't taste anything like that smoke product that they dislike. And they're in is what why Jason has hit the nail on the head when he talks about it's all about labeling, and trying not to deceive the customer. And as long as we have upfront labeling, I'm always going to be okay. 8:00 With just about anything as whether or not barrel finishes, or actually bourbon, now, that's a debate for another time. But I can tell you 1955 things like four roses of today and Buffalo Trace, they were not even considered the way they are made today would not be considered bourbon in 1955. And that's when the barrel entry proof was the legal maximum was 110. So, even though we have some rigid standards in American whiskey, it's always evolving. What American whiskey looks like in 10 years. Who knows? Maybe mosquito smoke corn finished and Sherry barrels is the standard. I don't know. But I do know that I'll be here to taste it. And that's this week's above the chart. Hey, if you'd like to write me and tell me what you think about above the char, maybe I'll read it on the next episode. shoot me an email or hit me up on Instagram. 9:00 Graham at Fred minich Until next week, cheers 9:06 Welcome back to another episode of bourbon pursuit the official podcast of bourbon and tonight we are having bourbon Community Roundtable number 40 and it's also the first verb Community Roundtable of 2020. So welcome back everybody. Glad to have everybody here right 9:22 here. So pretty much we got the whole crew here tonight. So Fred, Ryan, Brian, Nick and Blake as well. So how's everybody doing? Doing well doing well Kenny start to the New Year. 9:35 Just fantastic. 9:39 So excited. And for anybody that's not able to if you're just if you're in the car you're just listening or something like that. Ryan has finally got a new background. He's He's finally stepped up and he's got a whole new house renovations got bottles behind them now. I know. I'm like halfway through. You can maybe see if I get all the way. running our shells. I have another 10:00 One next to me. That's empty. But uh, yeah, I'm only halfway there and I'm running out I should have went bigger like Kenny said, but I don't have any more walls so 10:10 I think that's one thing is as we start going down and when people ask they're like, Hey, can you send pictures of like your your shelves or? Anybody have ideas and as soon as you have an idea for how big your shelves need to be, just triple it. Yeah, because always triple it because that's exactly i mean even doubles not going to get there but so when you think you need shelves for your bourbon, just triple it, because that's what's gonna happen. I yeah, just liquidate. I've been like giving like somebody comes to my house and I'm like, Here, take this bottle bottle for you, bottle for you. 10:44 So I'll go on over. I'll give you a funny story. So this past Sunday, my wife kind of went on a cleaning spree and went down to the basement and y'all know my basement. I know many people have seen it on social media. I mean, it's just littered with bottles and just crap everywhere. And she's 11:00 Like, this has gotta go. I probably ended up dumping out probably like three bottles worth of whiskey of just like samples of like 100 ml ml samples of just stuff that like it's, it's stuff that's all like from distilleries that wasn't very good or under age and I'm just like, I'm never gonna drink this. I don't know why I'm hanging on to it. But there's a little piece of you that just dies every time you sit there just empty down the drain. 11:26 Yes, I did. Actually, I had a bunch of media sample bottles and I just dumped them into the canter. We'll see what happens here. Infinity bottles. Yeah, exactly. already had one infinity ball that never touch. And then I like wow, be a great idea to create another one. So I don't drink it and let it sit there but uh, yeah, it's, it's good problem to have. Yeah, yeah, it is. Alright, so let's go ahead and go around the horn real quick. So Blake, we'll start with you. Just go ahead and do the usual. Yeah, I'm Blake from bourbon er calm. Bo you are Bo you are Bo, nr? It's been a 12:00 wow you know I almost forgot how to spell the name so glad to be back these are a lot of fun to do so that you can check me out at all social medias Instagram Twitter, Facebook as well as CEO box comm that's s ELBACH s I'm Nick from breaking bourbon, breaking bourbon com check us out 12:20 on social media all at breaking bourbon. And so I'm not going to spell it for you like Blake Blake i don't know i don't i don't want to screw it up and embarrass myself on live here. But yeah, you guys should know it by now. Breaking bourbon again. Glad to be here guys. Good Brian. Yeah, thanks for having me back. Happy to be for the first one of the of the New Year Brian with sip and corn. You can find me on Twitter Facebook and Instagram at sip and corn si p p n co CEO or MC there I go next can't even spell your own name anymore. And and also see me at bourbon justice.com. Let's start getting into some of the 13:00 The topics for tonight and so one of the one I kind of look at is how breaking kind of made stag Junior famous because it was one of these things that's like stag Jr. has been around, it's been around forever and all of a sudden, they come out and say it was their whiskey of the year and 2019 batch 12 and never at least correct me if I'm wrong Never before has Sazerac ever put out a press release about a new release of stag Jr. and now all of a sudden people are just going crazy for it it's just I don't even know if the initial release of stag Jr. Got a official press release 13:35 batch number 13 yeah even know they had badges 13:40 not getting 13:42 Okay, can I jump in so I was going to share this story earlier but so I was in South Carolina this weekend when we hit a few stores just see what they had three different no it was one bar and two different stores. They're like well, you know, we did just get the George t stag Jr. I don't know if you know this, but it was just named whiskey of the year. 14:00 I'm like, No, no, don't trust those guys. 14:05 It was gone off the shelves and the guy was like, yeah, you know, one of the employees grabbed it here because it was just named whiskey of the year. So, like, dang it breaking strikes again. 14:17 Y'all have a meeting with Jim Murray, you know? 14:22 I wish somehow it's like, it's like a catch 22 because, like, in a way, it kind of it kind of hurts us to to do something like that, because it's generally not insanely difficult to get here. I mean, it's not on the shelves all the time. But it shows up. I mean, if you're in liquor stores as much as we are, you're going to see it, you know, it's going to be out, you're going to have a chance to get it, you know, and so when when you do stuff like that, you know, you always think about the impact of, you know, are people going to lose their minds about it, but the flip side of that is, is, you know, it's kind of nice to have something that's just kind of a regular release, you know, they're not all going to be great. I don't think you know, there's going to be a 15:00 Elijah Craig barrel proof that's fantastic there's going to be a larceny you know barrel proof that's that's fantastic you know that kind of thing you know so it's that idea that kind of these regular releases that we get some really good once in a while we don't have to necessarily hunt you know the crazy stuff that everyone's already going to go nuts for no matter how good it is or not you know that you might just stumble upon you know really good batch or you know really good run a single barrels or something like that. So that's what's kind of exciting about that. But yeah, the catch 22 is it probably is going to be a little difficult to find for a little while at least although you know, probably taper off and be able to find it like you did before. If you know the know the liquor store, guys and you're getting your area. I think it'll still show up, you know, couple months from now. So one of the benefits of never deleting an email is that I have been able to trace every single Buffalo Trace, press release, and I found the original one with the original George t stag Jr. Or the stag Junior bourbon press release July 25 2000. 16:00 13 and I did not find any other follow up releases. So this 16:08 this is the first based on my inbox, which is a very well kept never deleted inventory of all Buffalo Trace press releases. And I remember the first either the first one or the first couple of those were just hotter than all hell. I mean, they were just unveiled. 16:28 Yeah, yeah, terrible. Yeah, terrible one of the one of my lowest rated Bourbons and everyone was super excited for it when it came out. And everyone thought I was going to be the, you know, the George t stag just a little younger, really, it's pretty much should be the same thing. Otherwise just maybe not quite as developed. But that one was pretty bad. And that one kind of turned us off from it for a little while. Of course, I have three bottles of that batch one. But you know, so it's been a little while we've had it here and there. You know, this one kind of popped up and Eric was the one who got it first and he was just going on and on about how great it was. 17:00 We had it and we're like well it's yeah we're going to start buying this again now you know so just yeah I think there's going to be hits and misses they're not all going to be they're not all gonna be home runs but this one was pretty good and from what I hear batch 13 is pretty good too and from a lot of comments people I don't think people didn't realize there were batches you know, if you're not a die hard bourbon enthusiasts, I don't think you're necessarily noticing that the proof is different. And it doesn't say batch anywhere so you know, I think Buffalo Trace maybe realize they could educate people a little bit better. You know, kind of talking about that there are actually different batches of this. You know, like for example, having held us with their you know, how they're identifying their batches now. We're knows maybe we'll switch to doing something like that. Maybe they're just going to try to get people on their website and do press releases from now on you know, be interesting to see what happens you know, everybody actually not opposed to like the the the announcement of a new release like this, if anything, it helps. It helps in a lot of ways kind of like Chronicle when these things are coming out. It gives you you little nuggets of information. 18:00 Because let's face it 18:02 We are at the liberty of what information they want to divulge to us we're very fortunate that someone like new riff or heaven Hill will tell you answer any question that you want. But Buffalo Trace, doesn't they, they don't tell you everything and so like to get any kind of like real like actionable information from some of those distilleries that don't give you information is always a plus. You know, it's the funny thing is this one question that came in and said how many people in the roundtable do the news earlier and guilty of insider trading? You know, for me, I don't even know how this was on your radar because stuff like you know stag Jr. Huge t single barrels are I mean, even even a lot of I mean, thankfully, heaven Hill sends us a lot of the samples for every release of the Elijah Craig barrel proof so we have an opportunity to taste it but a lot of times like a new stag, Jr. thing, just it's just not on the radar for me to go and search out among the liquor stores so well, they're gone anyway, they're not on the shelves here. It's like 19:00 Global's a different scenario Yeah, they get kind of compiled in with the you know Weller releases well or 12 where people have to camp out for it so I'm like stag jr No thanks not camping 19:11 or people camping out for stag Jr. He had they just do like they just they budget in 19:18 the raffles in the lotteries in the release. Yeah yeah it's part of the long line scenario maybe not the camping out but at least a two hour wait sort of scenario that's bourbon for you. Mm hmm. All right, let's go ahead. Let's move on to something fun. Well, maybe not fun, fun to talk about. You know, this is something that was an article that came out of Barron's calm on Friday and talked about MGP is now posting its third loss in a row, sorry, third quarter loss in a row. On Friday, the news came out that the stock had actually lost 20% of its value. It's currently I just checked it before we started here around $38 a share. It's high was back in around June of 2018, where it peaked around 19 20:00 $5 and it said at least within the article that it made a bet on aging whiskey, and that was related to blame, and really was a failed bet at the end the day. So I want to kind of look at the finance guys over here, because you all know what this means about, you know, trying to hit numbers, not posting or not meeting your, your expectations, your results. So what is this to you kind of say about the current market of maybe craft distillers that maybe don't need to source as much whiskey anymore? 20:31 Yeah, I mean, I think it's actually pretty telling, you know, if you dig in a little bit, they dig into like the, you know, the price to earnings ratio, all this other stuff in really what it comes down to is, I don't think MGP is getting the prices for their age whiskies that they wanted to, they thought that they could just kind of they were controlling the market, they could demand whatever price they wanted. And, you know, but you also have a lot of these other distilleries you've got Bardstown. 21:00 bourbon popping up you've got some other you know castle and key who's doing a lot of contract distilling, as well as just some other places around the country we've got a lot of decal bourbon that popping on to the market. So 21:11 I think they were just thinking they were in the driver's seat in our kind of getting proved that they weren't. 21:18 You know what that means for a stock forecast? I don't know that may be a little tough, but 21:24 ultimately, I think they're going to have to bring the prices down some they're still extremely high demand for MGP whiskey. But as I think that MGP probably thought that they would be able to release their own black brains with a little little bit of a better result and they haven't really done that, you know, what the remis and then well, they had the 21:46 the one that Oh, shoot with the old master distillers name that they released under his name, met Greg. 21:52 Greg Mets select but then you know that after he left, I assume they didn't care that on so I think between the fact that they haven't been able to really 22:00 thrown brands with much success. And then there's other stuff popping on the market where you know brands and smaller craft distillers they're looking to source. They have more options now. So I think that's the big thing. So let's analyze what MGP is MGP for years has been a supplier to people who were seeking craft spirits or distilled food, basically distill, distill the alcohol use for food. And in 2016, they hired Gus Griffin as their CEO Gus. Gus comes from Brown Forman. He's not from that kind of brought home and certainly had its like it played in the source market. Don't get me wrong, but not to this extent. And that facility in Lawrenceburg, Indiana, had been used as a blending agent for years and Canadian whiskey and American blends. It was never a place to do it's to have its own whiskey until Pernod Ricard sold it to ldi or Angostura 23:00 We're up, and they started selling stuff out into the wholesale market. They saw so much success with this. Unfortunately ldi could not, could not survive, so they had to sell you MGP MGP saw so much success with the source market that they said, Hey, why don't we have all this great whiskey and hey, you taste the honeybell from NGP. And you tell me it's not great. It is fantastic whiskey. And they're like, why don't we do our own brands. So they bring in this guy from Brown Forman Absolutely. Perfect position ready to go. Here's the problem. The company's infrastructure had always been built around 23:41 the wholesale market or the trade industry or other distillers and helping other other brands. They had not successfully done their own brand. They didn't have the sales infrastructure. They didn't have the marketing teams in place. They had some here and there but they did not build brands. And so in 2016, they shifted 24:00 gears and they started let letting go contracts and they started saying, hey, you're gonna have to find another source for your whiskey because we're cutting back. And here we are, we're basically seeing the results of a fantastic distillery not being supported by, you know, something that we always talk about that we hate in marketing and sales or apps. So that without that infrastructure there, you can see the results. And I know the stock market is not like real life, but it's an indication of what what happens. 24:38 Yeah, I mean, I also think when you look at this as a as a distillery going into this, you want to be able to buy whiskey and and have something that you can kind of buy and then sell almost overnight like that. That's kind of the goal a lot of these people went with. And now when even I mean, Ryan and I, we've been down this path we've talked to MGP like the most that they really sell 25:00 to people like us is like four year old product of that they have the 36%. Right? If you're buying a lot of 30, or buying a lot of four year old product, that means you're banking on betting your whole business on aging NGP stock. And so that doesn't necessarily play into the long term category of a lot of distillers where they say like, okay, we're going to get this to get us over this hump, until we can actually start selling our own whiskey. And so, most people unless you're, unless you're trying to build a business where it's NGP all day, every day for the rest of eternity, then it's gonna be hard for I think, to keep to keep selling some of these younger stocks. I think that's right. I also think frankly, Indiana has something to do with it. I mean, they they caught some bad press with Templeton and everyone referring to it as Oh, it's just 25:48 a whiskey made in a factory in Indiana, and they can't call it Kentucky bourbon. And everyone knows when Indiana's on the on the back. That's where they got it from and it's just a brand trying to 26:00 Make make it go until they can sell their own. And in the meantime, you've got brands stocking up on that can call themselves Kentucky bourbon and you've got a JW locally in particular, with all kinds of warehouses that are full of bourbon. And they'll have that cachet that MGP just won't and a half wonder if it's the market figuring that out. Also, you got to think about to Ozi Tyler has a lot of stuff on the market. Bardstown, bourbon, which 26:30 Blake mentioned earlier barsa Berbick and he's got a lot of stuff out there. I mean, the market is almost in about a one or two years if you're starting a brand. It's a buyers market, you know, because a lot of these people are going to be you know, desk selling have also heard rumors as that anything I can confirm it. So there's been some really strong Major blueblood distillers that are starting to say, Well, you know what, maybe we sell some of those two year old age doc that we have in tanks. So you're starting to see some Kentucky probably 27:00 open back up on the market. Well, you know, the old Barton stuff that's 12 and, you know, 17 years old remains there for half the price as you will know, Kenny. Yeah. Well, it is Kenny was alluding to or talking about, you know, us being in the source market. It's hard to I think MGP is actually built a name for themselves especially for the rye whiskey and the older bourbon I think. I think if you carry the rye whiskey, a lot of people will give you a benefit of the doubt because it's damn good rye whiskey, probably the best out there but the problem is is their pricing it's you can pay $1,000 more for aged, you know, product from Tennessee or or Barton's, and 27:43 then a four, you know, a four year old NGP and it's like, what you know, and when you taste it, it's just it's hard to, you know, invest that kind of money for that young of a product. And like Kenny said, You're banking on you know, aging, that stock and whatnot. So 28:00 I don't know, I think they're, they're getting squeezed barsen by recovery, like other said, and castle and key and 28:07 yeah, I think that's just all part of it. And, you know, they, it's adapted. So they'll they'll figure it out, I'm sure, when they shifted their business plan, they left the market open and people took advantage of it, the only way that they can correct this, you know, to get themselves back in place, is to flex their muscle. And I would really, I would really say that they should spin off their brands, and they should go back to servicing, you know, the craft market because they were so good at that and their infrastructure is set for it. And the market accepted it, you know, we can all say what we want about those class action lawsuits and everything, but no one was ever really bitching about the whiskey. And, and and that's that's telling you something 28:50 that's true. When you're going into you're really putting the marketing in a lot of other people's hands in you don't have to bank everything on your own strategy. You know, you're going to get some great 29:00 ideas from from some really inspired people by doing it that way. And I think that's what's built up their name to this point, because there's certainly an enthusiast group that's, you know, follow these brands that are, you know, probably built from enthusiasts themselves that have sourced MGP To get started, you know, done really well with it. And I think that's built such a strong name for them, you know, in that group, and then just by and large, as a lot of people out there that I don't think they care if it's MGP or not, they just care if they feel somewhat connected to the brand and they liked the whiskey enough in That's it, and it's just about getting distribution to the right places. So I think that makes a lot of sense, Fred. 29:39 You know, I mean, maybe this is, you know, certainly could be a bit of a glut here. Everyone's producing like crazy, you know, we're seeing whiskey come to market a lot younger, you know, then it was he came and dropped off a lot of regular everyday products we see on the limited release stuff, of course, you know, but is it to the point now, where it's just gotten that much harder to compete, and people may be overproduced 30:00 A little bit, you know, compared to what the what the projections were, Nick, you bring up a very interesting point. You know, we always talk about the glut but The what? The thing that's different now is that there's this whole lifestyle and tourism impact that American whiskey has jack daniels is enjoying it and so like if you're a fan of it, you can go to Jim Beam, you go to Maker's Mark what a Buffalo Trace and have the experience of your life. No one's going no one's going to Indiana. So you know that's, that's a that's a component there and I'll say this about MGP I hope that they stick with it because I think that's a good company. They just, you know, we all make business mistakes. I think this was a business mistake but I do not want to see them sell I think they have the passion for it. I do not want to see this get in the hands of printer card or Dr. Joe or someone like that, who's just going to turn this into a churn and burn place without any attention, you know, to the whiskey in American American whiskey hands and I don't want to see it be sent off to for blending purposes again, the world got 31:00 taste that whiskey and the world said we like that whiskey from Lawrenceburg, Indiana. 31:07 And the people have spoken here here. 31:11 So while we're also on the source whiskey path right here, you know, as we start looking at the scene of more and more Bourbons coming to the market, there's only a limited supply of sources that things are coming from. And this is one that, you know, we all kind of talked about before on the show, are we starting to see that the bourbon market is now being oversaturated with brands? Because, and don't get me wrong, we're probably problem too. Right? We're part of the problem too. Now, however, like it's it is becoming to the point where there is a lot of private label stuff out there. 31:45 I just saw somebody released one called Blue Ribbon bourbon, which is a revitalization of a label that was a 12 year old Kentucky bourbon about a week or so ago. And I think we're going to end up seeing more and more of these in the next probably few 32:00 months, few years, something like that. So do we see the over saturation of the market starting to happen? Well, I was I was wrong about this about four or five years ago. And so I guess I'm not, I'm not going to be reporting on the demise or the bubble being pop just yet. I mean, I thought four years ago that I'd be buying someone's still out of bankruptcy and I'd be the able to have my own little distillery on the first side hospital. Sure, didn't happen, obviously. And if we can get past tariff issues, and if we can get past trade issues, there's so much capacity overseas, it'll it'll soak all this up, and we won't notice a blip here, despite all of this production coming out. So we just have to think it's going to keep pushing. And I guess I would say, you know, from a, from a production standpoint, there's there's a lot of it, you know, where it's going to get consumed, it's going to grow almost just from 33:00 A pure, like, different brand standpoint, pure number of producers out there. You know, I think there's probably plenty of them out there that do not necessarily have a passionate person behind them. You know, there's a lot of money in it right now. You know, there's plenty that do have passionate, excited people behind them, I think we're going to see, you know, a percentage of those succeed, you know, but they're fighting for shelf space on a limited number of, you know, a limited number of retailers. You know, they've got to go through the distribution system. You know, there's, there's ways around it, of course, to some extent, but I think the reality is, is I think if you flood with flood with just too many different brands, there's just too much noise. And I think we're going to see a challenge for, you know, just an overflow of these to succeed if they don't have the driving force, the passionate people behind them, you know, kind of that gumption to, you know, to stick with it. I don't know, I don't think it's necessarily a quick money play, you know, per se, the same way. It may have been, you know, five, seven years. 34:00 years ago, at this point, I think the competition's a lot tougher. And so you got to pull a little bit more into it. You gotta have something special, you got to bring a destination into the mix, you've got to you just have to do more. You're not just, you know, the bottle something, put it out there and have nothing behind it and succeed. Yeah, one thing, I think with the source, you know, I mean, obviously, like Kenny said, there's a few sources that people get it with the refreshing thing about the source, age market, it's comes with an age statement, like nothing else out there is really coming with age statements. And you know, that's one niche they can hang their hat on. It's like, okay, we can give you a 11 1214 year old, you know, whiskey and you can't hide age. You can't there's just, you know, five, six, it's fine. But when you get 11 1214 there's something special unique you get with those types of Bourbons and still, and we're whiskey geeks. So we noticed these brands, we know where they come from, but the general public, they have no idea. You know, they're like, oh, any idea about this brand? No, it's 12 years old, you know? 35:00 They've been producing forever. Right? They opened up yesterday. Yeah. And so it's, 35:06 you know, as us we probably think, yes. Like, oh, how ridiculous. Can there be another 12 year old baartman brand out there. But the general public, I think, doesn't see that it is see that age number 12 years, and they get excited about it. I guess the other question that kind of comes with this is, we all kind of know what happens when you buy a bunch of stuff. It ends up running out right, it'll go dry. So what do you all kind of see is like some of these brands that are hanging their hat on putting that big number 12 of Kentucky straight bourbon whiskey as their brand. When we know here in maybe a year, maybe six months, maybe it's two years? I'm not too sure. But this will run out? 35:49 Yeah, I mean, I think it's tough to say because I'm, I'm kind of with Brian, where, you know, probably four or five years ago, I thought and by 2020. We'll see a glut nobody's gonna care about 36:00 This stuff anymore and I'm going to pick up, you know, 36:03 maybe not Pappy, but at least like well, or 12 or something again, but the demand is increased even faster than anyone expected. So 36:12 I think people will stick with brands, even if age statements are dropped. I mean, look at Elijah Craig. Granted, that's a massive company behind it, but they've gone through it Look at you know, Jim Beam eight year, the Black Label that they've gone through it and seems to be no issues. So, you know, I think a lot of these things are just blips on the radar radar, and it's a marketing thing that they have to figure out. Even when, you know, you hang your hat on age statement, you have to drop that age statement later. That ultimately what I think it comes down to is, is the is the whiskey good and, you know, it's easy to get stuck on a age statement. If it's good people drink it, people will talk about it and you know, it'll continue to grow so I don't I don't see any signs of slowing down even with it. 37:00 There's going to be a huge flooding of the markets in the next five to six years of Bourbons from New distilleries have been, you know, aging for a while, as well as other major distilleries that have just increased production over the last six to seven years. 37:15 As long as bourbon is cool, people keep buying it. 37:20 You keep it cool, Fred. 37:23 I've got that. 37:25 Pretty sure. So, you know, as we start looking at you know, Bourbons come on the scene. There's one thing that we always also see that that happens in this world of bourbon and that's, that's stickers. 37:39 With the careers of master distiller spanning almost 50 years, as well as Kentucky bourbon Hall of Famer and having over 100 million people taste his products. Steve nalli is a legend of bourbon, who for years made Maker's Mark with expertise and precision. His latest project is with Bardstown bourbon company, a state of the art distillery in the heart of the bourbon capital the world. They're known for the process 38:00 fusion series however, they're adding something new in 2020 with a release named the prisoner. It starts as a nine year old Tennessee bourbon that is in finished in the prisoner wine companies French oak barrels for 18 months. The good news is, you don't have to wait till next year to try it. Steve and the team at Bardstown bourbon company have teamed up with rackhouse whiskey club rackhouse whiskey club is a whiskey the Month Club on a mission to uncover the best flavors and stories that craft distilleries across the US have to offer. Their December box features a full size bottle of Bardstown suffusion series, and a 200 milliliter bottle of the prisoner. There's also some cool merchant side. And as always, with this membership, shipping is free. Get your hands on some early release Bardstown bourbon, by signing up at rackhouse whiskey club.com. Use code pursuit for $25 off your first box. 38:50 So, you know, as we start looking at you know, Bourbons come on the scene. There's one thing that we always also see that that happens in this world of bourbon and that's that sticker 39:00 And there's one that the recording of today is Monday and there's one that just kind of get real big real fast and this was a play you know, one thing that I always loved about new riff is somebody that's something about riffs something and so riff pitino of play on Rick Pitino is one sticker that kind of got big on bourbon today. And what this does is it depicts a a kind of like a to face of Rick Pitino you got UK on one side you have Elad another, they have UK holding up a trophy and they've got a bunch of UFL players throwing dollars at strippers on the other side. And this got so big that it got picked up by Kentucky Sports Radio which is a very large syndicate here in the state that then got picked up by barstool sports. And in the barstool sports article, it actually talked about how it was coming from the distillery, right it didn't say it was a pretty 40:00 private group I didn't say it was a pic it like it said new riff. I'm sure they love that. Yeah, I mean, I guess I guess you know any publicity is good publicity but like At what point or I don't know maybe how about practicing a little journalism I Tommy call me old school but hey how about we actually call the company that there's no money in it with it you could call somebody for that. Yeah, yeah I mean all of this I feel like new riff is is an enormous victim right now and it just it drives me crazy because this has this has been happening I've been covering this business for you know 1415 years in all it's never happened this egregiously but like a brand really got damaged today it there's no question about it that someone saw that article in is going to have a bad opinion or saw the tweet is going to have a bad opinion about new riff for the rest of their life and they will not have taken the time to follow up to see you know what the real story was, but new riff got 41:00 Damage today because somebody made a sticker and put it on the bottle and made national national trending news, whatever you want to call it, but you know they're hurt from this or are they hurt? I mean they sure they're they're hurt I mean that's 41:20 but they're getting press on this folks who had never heard of this small distillery in Northern Kentucky now know about new riff and they're going to hear a lot of response to me about Oh, new riff is actually you know, get get the get the new riff. I mean, this is a fantastic single barrel. Well, I don't think anyone actually most people, you know, the way the world goes with this stuff, it's it's going to be the one thing that someone clicks on and then they're going to see a cat and they're going to go to something else. So I that I don't think there's any kind of real value in any kind of trending topic. I mean, there are multiple studies of somebody who comes up with something you know, clever on Twitter. 42:00 They don't their Twitter followers don't grow, you know, they get 30,000 retweets and what have you and their Twitter followers grow by 20 or something silly like that. And, and, and the fact is, is that within the Kentucky Community, you know, they're already kind of an outlier because they're in Northern Kentucky. They're not in Lexington, or they're not unlovable, and they're not in Bardstown. So they're an outlier as it is. And, you know, this sort of thing, puts them in kind of like a weird position in the state. And it has made state news. It's been tweeted by Matt Jones. And so everyone sees it, and all anyone had to do was pick up the phone and call the distillery. And then there's the whole thing could have been like, hey, this barrel group is doing this using this. They just pick up a sticker. Now it's free speech, right. And the distilleries can't dictate to anybody what they can do to the bottle after it's been purchased the same way that Nike can't dictate to you what you do with a pair of shoes that you pick up, you know from shoe locker or 43:00 Whatever. I mean, when I was a kid, I used to spray paint shoes. And that was probably stupid at the time, but I did it. No Shoe Company was coming after us to, you know that we couldn't spray paint our shoes. And that's really what it is here is that you have to practice you know, practice some, some, you know, some common sense of say like, Hey, is this a good idea? Does this pass the smell test? And I think this, this whole thing has 43:28 it could be the one sticker that, you know, puts the whole 43:33 you know, takes the fun out of all of this. I mean, honestly, a lot of people don't like the stickers. I love them. I love looking at everybody's stickers. I like getting on social media. And seeing people's post about it. I thought it was great. And this one even if 43:49 I mean I it was too far, it was too far. 43:55 actually makes it cool with younger people and that's growing. 44:00 It looks like because most bourbon brands are like, old man kind of like real old school kind of thinking. I don't know, the barstool sports, you know, they have a lot of millennial. Most of you know followers and that's where Bourbons growing and that's the future of bourbon. And I think they'll probably think it's cool. I know it probably drives me crazy Fred that that's what they love, they love like, I like tweeting and all this stuff and I and I, and I watch barstool sports. I listened to the pizza, the guys pizza reviews are great. And I just, you know, this is just one where I don't know it's just I would have to agree with Fred where I thought this one kind of went over the line a little bit on on a sticker but but the press was fantastic. You know, it's you can't pay for that kind of that kind of viral effect. But was it wasn't Ken Lewis, the one who on the on bourbon pursuit said he didn't like the stickers and is like, you know, I understand people are free to do whatever they want, but we put a lot of time and effort into those 45:00 bottles and 45:02 we prefer that then they stay the way they are you're right it was killing us on this podcast and said that I think he's the only the only you know owner I can really think of who's talked about that now granted new riff gets way more just because of the the funniness of the the name way more stickers and craziness than other ones but overall you know it definitely hit an audience but i mean i don't know i can't condone putting strippers on your bourbon bottle that's just a little far for me. So here's here's another side okay, so I like again that that audience that's getting touched is not going to get converted for new roof. It's just not they're not going to take the time to go seek out a bottle if they do they're going to do it in Jersey where the bottles not available and find a bottle go to seal box calm 45:57 should a quick link in the show notes. 46:00 Nice I like it. This is the whole setup, you know, not what this stuff but this is this is a this is a trend that that social media has brought that a lot of people do not appreciate and that's the social responsibility aspect of, of, of alcohol, their actual laws about what can be put on the bottle and their actual laws about what the distillers can promote. Yeah, putting a stripper on the bottle is is is within many violations now obviously new rifton do that. But I have seen multiple bourbon groups have a have their child hold the bottle and you know quickly those things often get taken down. But people don't practice they don't they don't look at. They don't look at the bottle as like some kind of 46:55 regulated you know, piece of real estate and 47:00 You know in these kinds of things are going to end up hurting the the distilleries, the community, the hobby, all of it. Because we're all the the bourbon world's already under, you know, every Attorney General in the country is already looking at, you know, the secondary markets as like some kind of like easy press release for them to take down and arrest arrest Joe Schmo in a parking lot in Pennsylvania. They're like, pound their chests and say like, hey, look at us, we're taking down illegal illegal drinking and legal selling. And so, you know, we don't need this kind of activity happening. Because all it does is it puts it puts a bigger Bullseye on the entire industry. And it just frustrates the shit out of me that people don't get that when it comes to like having their kids next alcohol when it comes to the stickers when it comes to anything and the fact is, at any given moment, like Facebook or whoever could just snap 48:00 It's all gone, it'll pop up in something else, but it'll be gone in that particular medium. And that is where you know that the stick that particular sticker is in that same kind of categories, right there. 48:13 Yeah, I mean, we've talked about stickers plenty of times on the show before and, you know, whether it's you know, you want to commemorate something or whether it's a an opportunity for you to pay homage to somebody I know we've seen people that have like had Freddie on the bottle before I know there's people are afraid to on the sticker. You know, there's a lot of fun things that get played with it. This just happened to be one that blew up rather quickly. And only because I think it 48:39 It had a little sensitive subject around to it, but you know, it's a it's it's Kentucky and it's basketball in the day. So maybe that's just why it started really supporting it. You know, you shouldn't ever went to frickin level. 48:55 There's just there's no restrictions on the rival 49:00 Read between Kentucky and u of L so that that that's part of it. And that's, that's why it's on. That's why Matt Jones is is tweeting it. And that's why it gets on barstool sports. But I think overall there's there's obviously the risks, Fred, that you point out. I think overall, it'll end up being fine for new riff. I think what it's going to do though is it's going to call the attention to all the distilleries about what goes on these, these stickers for the private groups, because a lot of them use trademark images. I mean, there's plenty with with Marvel Comics, images that are trademark images. There's, there's there's just free use of anything out there that are protected marks, and the distilleries are going to have to have some responsibility for that. I absolutely disagree. I disagree with you on that because once that once it is bottled, it is going to the distributor and it's being sold to a retailer. So the the 50:00 The responsibility on this is going to be on the retailer. If they are putting that sticker on there at the distillery, there's some liability there, I would assume. Yes. Yeah, it's wherever they go place. Yeah, that's where a lot of them come on. I mean, I've know some that go on on post sale, but a lot of them go on at the at the distillery, they'll give them the sticker and it goes on there, that that's going to be restricted. Now once it gets into into the group's hands and gets whatever stickers on it, that can still be trademark infringement, but you're gonna have to go after the group for it, which will be next to impossible. So if it's if it's Disney trying to protect a Marvel mark, they're going to go to the distillery and say you need an agreement with whoever does private selections that they will not be using any infringing marks. I wonder what Rick Pitino thought when he saw 50:55 the he says 50:58 he's like, I just can't get away from this trip again. 51:00 thing, you know, you know, he's he's probably, you know, he hasn't did he Sue anyone with all the coverage that he got? I don't think you know, probably now i don't think i don't think he will I think he's just trying to get another job and to be honest with you, if the Oklahoma State job pops up, I pray to God that he goes there because we could we could use a winning season anyway, that this whole thing is 51:26 it it just kind of like plays into a whole nother 51:31 you know, conversation to be had about, you know, what is, 51:37 you know, what, what is the standard of, I guess, being cordial, you know, we've lost in, in an overall society, we just, we just put pictures up with people and, and, and have a good laugh at it. And yet we have 12 year olds trying to kill themselves on a daily basis, because they're getting made fun of online. It's like 52:00 At some point in our society, we're going to have to take some, 52:04 some responsibility for what we're posting online. And this is this is a part of all that it's a greater conversation. But 52:13 you know, 52:15 it's sad, it's sad that it's accepted. And people just go on with it and have a good laugh. But the fact is, you know what, my grandpa wasn't doing this you know, when when they were trying to you know, create a cut, you know, basically rebuild this country after World two. And you know, and here we are, and it's just kind of like, this is what we're This is what we do on a daily basis. That's it 52:42 your mood and change the mood? Yeah, go look a little like a good device. The subject I feel like the you know, the the router game will fall every problem. 52:52 All right, let's move on. I think we're ready. 52:57 I'm ready. That went deep. So you know, as we are 53:00 Talk about private barrels and you know, private pics and stuff like that. You know, I think there's one and I think, actually, Blake before we can go on to that I think you had a had a sticker prediction for 2020 as well. Did you want to kind of really? Yeah, yeah, it kind of, to piggyback on that a little bit, I think there's going to be a brand or distillery that comes out and says, you know, they can't control it. But they will be very boisterous, kind of how the Van Winkle have been about the secondary about, you know, no stickers on their bottles. Like we said, you know, if the bottle comes untouched, gets in the hands of a customer. You know, my six year old can color on it, I can throw a sticker on it, it doesn't matter. But a lot of times when these things are getting advertised, I think they could stop it and you know, somebody put it in the chat. That's why steel box puts the sticker just in the box and doesn't put it on there. But I think there's going to be somebody else who comes out and says, You know what, we don't like that. And we'd prefer that you know? 54:00 People not do this to our bottles and in there a little more outspoken about it. So I think that's coming especially after today. You think that's what it's new riff Blake or do you think somebody Yeah, I mean they already kind of said it. I think it's new riff I mean you think about the the major ones are getting stickers. New riff will it a lot of Buffalo Trace pics you know Buffalo Trace Weller's, all that kind of thing. Will it seems to be okay with it? I don't know. I've never seen them have an issue. I've seen them do some distillery releases where they have stickers. But yeah, I think it'll be new riff, you know, especially after this backlash, that that does say something. 54:42 You know, some people kind of get the fun of it and others, you know, to his point that he made on the podcast it was we put a lot of work and design effort into this bottle. We prefer that it stays the way it is. So, you know, I think it'll be interesting to see what they're able to get away with it. 55:00 Cuz, you know, they can't, they can't dictate free speech? Well, I'm very much in opposition of, of poor taste, I also support free speech. And, you know, if when someone gets that bottle, and they can put whatever they want on it, and I think the only thing could probably dictate his say, you can't, we will not be putting this label on the bottle. And if we catch you doing it, we're not going to resell to your group. I think that's about the extent of it. And honestly, I think that would be the biggest return of all they said, Look, you know, we're just not going to let you do another pic. If this is how the bottles are going to be treated. I don't think there's anything wrong with that legally, you know, they're allowed to choose which groups they allow to buy barrels. 55:49 So I don't know it take a little bit of the fun out of it. I mean, I know we had some fun with our rollers trail pick, so it does add some fun, but overall, I think it's gonna 56:00 If it continues, you know, they'll have to at least acknowledge the fact that they're not associating with with a lot of these stickers. I mean, it we can all, you know, prevent all this by just, you know, practicing common sense, right. 56:18 That's way too much to ask these. 56:22 Remember we started what what is bourbon? bourbon is drama. Yeah. So that's what it's all about. Yes, it is, always has been, by the way. So as we as we continue this theme of talking about single barrel selections and stuff like that, there's there's one that's sort of leading the pack and kind of made a big splash this year already. I know it's rolling in January. But the biggest news was that brown Forman is now coming out with a barrel proof and 100 proof option for their single barrel program of old forester and will be retiring their 90 proof version. This all is going to come into effect around the May timeframe that kind of begs 57:00 Question. What's taking everything else so long to get on board with this? Gosh, I applaud them for listening. I mean, yeah, absolutely. I'm Foreman's like just they are like nailing it on all aspects the past like two, three years, they just been doing great releases at great prices like putting out ever since Jackie's joined. I mean, it's just they've been nailing it out of the park and they're listening to fans. They're doing everything like I commend them so much like it's it's incredible. I've done an old forester pick at barrel strength it's absolutely incredible. You know, and it's I'm so excited for this unfortunately our pic will be at 90 proof because it's not before 57:39 before May So, but Gosh, way to go brown Forman like talk about company and listens to people and then listen to their fans like I applaud that. Absolutely applaud them. I mean that's on those barrel pics there have been some of the best straight out of the barrel bourbon, I've have had hands down and we've been 58:00 crying for it for five years, and maybe it takes that long but we finally have so I'm happy. Yeah, I put this in a post today about I've never been that huge of a brown form and fan for over the years. But there Honestly, I think they did better than any other distiller I can think of in 2019 really last couple years with their whiskey row or releases, you know, the the hundred proof raw or the straight rye that they released. That's like 23 bucks a bottle. And now this with the barrel picks, what does every single person say? Whenever they go to do the barrel pics, what will they let's do it a barrel proof. And the answer's no, you got to water it down to 90 you gotta water You know, one of seven. There's something hard to do. We got to do a TTB filing. Yeah, yeah. And I don't think they just continue. I thought the old forester birthday bourbon was fantastic this year. So yeah, I mean, kind of hats off to them. I think they're 59:00 They're crushing it with the whiskey crowd right now or the, you know, the enthusiast crowd at least. So, I want to get in on their barrel program now. Like, who do I need to call on that one, but now I'm excited to see what else comes out of there because we know they have a lot of good barrels sitting so it should be a lot of good barrels to kind of, so a little breaking golf. Sorry. 59:23 Breaking News. Yeah. Okay. Let the man talk. Okay, kind of sorry, Fred, kind of to that point. 59:31 Blake, you know, I think you know, talking about the enthusiast crowd, you know, you gotta wonder if if the Steelers are looking at it as a real small portion of the community that does really want that is going to be impacted by that and you know, look at it as from a cost benefit that maybe it's not there, you know, but that kind of listening to the enthusiasts and even if it you know, the single barrels and barrel proof only do get into a small number a hands, you gotta wonder if they're looking at kind of that spiral effect of, you know, if that kind of interesting 1:00:00 goes down from there to just people's association with the brand. So kind of talking to everybody, you know, the enthusiasts, I think we're relatively speaking a pretty small group, you know, when you look at what really sells and where the numbers really get posted, but we're a pretty vocal group too, I think and it's great that they're listening and making their products better. And yeah, I mean, across the board when you have those pics and you're there and you're tasting all the barrel, and it's so good then they water it down and it's it's not the same It's a shame to know that it's going to be watered down and they're basically going to ruin what's otherwise a fantastic bourbon. 1:00:36 Well, and so I wouldn't go to room. Sorry. 1:00:40 I want to hear what you say. But I've some of your and watered down some of those old forester private selections have been fantastic. Sorry. I just mean, I just mean in general, you know, yeah, I'm with zero proof. It's fantastic water down. It's just not anything near where it was. Yeah, you know, it's really those it actually some tastes better with 1:01:00 Water than they do it barrel proof, you know and so it's kind of funny how that goes to. All right, go Fred. All I was going to say is because of everything that she has done and is continuing to do, and her 1:01:14 her effort to find herself we're putting Jackie's I can on the cover. bourbon plus. All right, fantastic. She if you guys can beat me out, 1:01:32 pulled away. We should probably 1:01:34 more community vote next time. 1:01:38 Jackie's gonna win every day of the week. Yeah. The photography on her is amazing, but this story is about her. We know about the whiskey side and that's there but on the personal side, she's she fought like hell. And I got to tell you all when I tell you that every single great thing that is happening on the old forester line. 1:02:00 is in large part because of Jackie's I can. But also you know who she would say is her partner in crime Campbell Brown, the president Campbell deserves a lot of credit for taking a brand that was kind of like forgotten in the world and giving it the love and attention that it's deserved. And that's a good brown Forman on it sharp dude, he's done. They've done amazing things since he joined. So that's a great point. Yep. And I guess kind of like last question that we do, as we kind of wrap this up is, you know, as we see, brown Forman come out with this barrel proof single offering, and I know that the eyes are on one company, now that everybody kind of looks at and says like, okay, we love We love to taste your stuff, a barrel proof, we want to see a barrel proof offering. I mean, is it do we actually see this as a change of the bourbon consumer market, where more people are actually opting to actually want to have barrel proof expressions, rather than saying like, Okay, well, I'll just 1:03:00 Take this 94 proof counterpart because that's all you're going to give me. Haven't we always been there? We have. But I mean, now you see the them actually starting to adjust to maybe some market reactions. Yeah, well, the single girls are like, really for whiskey geeks. It's not for the general populace. So, I mean, but the general population, they even think 94 proof is fucking hot as hell. They're like, you know, they even like 86 they're like, Oh my gosh, it's so hot. You know, but uh, 1:03:31 I think so. Yeah. 1:03:35 Yeah, I'm Ryan, I come across this people. I wonder their way. Yeah. Yeah. 1:03:40 What has happened is they finally have listened to the data and listen to the people who are out in the market saying that new consumers and women and people who are wanting to, you know, to drink in a sophisticated fashion, want higher proof and I believe it you 1:04:00 No, Peggy no Stevens has played a big, big role when she handed over the bourbon women's research that women preferred basically Booker's as the as their drink of choice and the like every day that you can find in the in the market. And so when they started seeing that data, they're like, Oh, well, we all need to kind of, you know, create, you know, somet

This is the final roundtable for 2019 as we head into the new year. And this one packs a few punches. First, we dive into Instagram news where the number of likes are now hidden from your view. How will it impact bourbon Instagram stars? Then we roll into the meat of the podcast talking about Pappy and Sazerac vs The Secondary Market. Lastly, we share what we are thankful for in 2019. I also want to take this opportunity to say thank you to you, the dedicated listeners and viewers of Bourbon Pursuit. We really appreciate the hours you spend with us every week to hear us talk about bourbon. Show Partners: Barrell Craft Spirits works with distilleries from all over the world to source and blend the best ingredients into America’s most curious cask strength whiskies. Learn more at BarrellBourbon.com. Receive $25 off your first order at RackHouse Whiskey Club with code "Pursuit". Visit RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. Distillery 291 is an award winning, small batch whiskey distillery located in Colorado Springs, Colorado. Learn more at Distillery291.com. Show Notes: Warehouse X: http://www.experimentalwarehouse.com/ Marianne Eaves at TEDxBroadway: https://www.tedxbroadway.com/talks/2019/11/19/making-the-impossible-and-doing-the-unthinkable-marianne-eaves This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about vintage whiskey collections. Instagram removes likes. Does this impact bourbon influencers? Do Instagram posts drive people to your content? Will the lack of likes deter people from using influencers? Should Instagram hide the number of followers? Do you think Sazerac is behind the secondary take down? Why make the Van Winkles the face of the blame? Should they raise the SRP of Pappy? Do you think other distilleries are happy they took action on the secondary market? What are you thankful for with bourbon in 2019? Thanks to Blake from bourbonr.com, Nick from BreakingBourbon.com , and Brian from sippncorn.com for joining. 0:00 me think about it if you're like a craft distiller you work your ass off like making it all anyone ever asked like, was it? Did you distill it? Yeah, yeah, we produced it. No Did you distill it? 0:13 Right there the label 0:15 and then and then they then you taste it like oh, that sucks. I'd rather have MGP 0:32 Happy Thanksgiving everybody. It is Episode 229 of bourbon pursuit and I hope you're out there, drinking a little bit of Turkey today and just taking it nice and easy. Now Buffalo Trace just wrapped up its second experiment utilizing its custom made experimental warehouse x. Now this experiment began in 2016 and focus on how temperature affects the aging process. The first experiment ended in 2016. And that one focus on natural like keeping barrels various stages of light for two years. And the second experiment, which just ended a few weeks ago at the end of October, determined how barrel activity correlates with temperature changes, keeping to the four warehouse chambers constant and vary the other two chambers. And throughout the experiment, they track temperature fluctuations from five degrees to 109 degrees Fahrenheit, and monitored the barrel pressures ranging from about negative 2.7 psi to a positive 3.2 psi, in total 9.1 million data points were collected during the second experiment. And now the next experiment will expand on the distilleries temperature experiment by focusing on how temperature and these swings affect whiskey activity in the barrel. And there's gonna be a two year experiment and that's going to begin in late November. Buffalo Trace estimates that it's going to collect more than 70 million data points by the end of this 20 year project. For more information about warehouse texts, you can visit the experimental warehouse.com good friend of the show Marion Eve got it. chance to tell her story on nothing else. But the TED stage. TED talks are a personal favorite of mine. And I feel that she did an absolute amazing job on this. Not only do you get to hear her story of getting into bourbon, working your way up the ranks at Brown Forman, delete for castle and key and her eventual departure from castling key but she really shines a spotlight on bourbon as a whole. It's a 10 minute TED talk that was from TEDx Broadway. And you can watch it with the link in our show notes. This is the final round table for 2019. As we head into the new year, and this one, it packs a few punches, we first dive into the Instagram news where the number of likes are now hidden from your view. And if that's going to impact our bourbon Instagram stars that are out there. Then we roll into the real meat of the podcast talking about Pappy and saceur act versus the secondary market. There's lots of good ideas and theories behind this one. Lastly, we share what we're thankful for in 2019. And I also want to take this opportunity Say thank you to you. We really do appreciate the hours that you spend with us every single week to hear us talk about bourbon. And I hope each and every one of you have a happy Thanksgiving. Now it's time for Joe to tell us a little bit more about barrel bourbon. And then you've got Fred minich with above the char. 3:18 It's Joe from barrell bourbon. We work with distilleries from all over the world to source and blend the best ingredients into America's most curious cask strength whiskies. Find out more at barrell bourbon com. 3:32 I'm Fred MiniK. And this is above the char. This week's idea comes from Ian, that bourbon guy on Twitter. Ans what are the top 10 vintage Bourbons everyone must chase on their whiskey journey. That's a great question and it's one I've actually thought a lot about because I like to collect vintage whiskies. For me it all starts with the distilleries you want to have like a whiskey from every distillery that matters to you or every state. For me, I can't speak for everyone else. But I had to have some Mexican bourbon and some Canadian bourbon in my collection. So when I started my hunts, I captured some of those that so these are historic Bourbons that would have been made in these markets before the 1964 declaration of bourbon being a unique product the United States so those are two right off the bat. And the Mexican bourbon was not so good. The Canadian bourbon actually pretty pretty good. And then I have to always have something from national distillers national distillers was really good parent company that used to operate old Taylor and Old Crow they sold to beam in 1987 and Old Crow turned a shit in thankfully says rack acquired old Taylor from beam which was slowly To shit as well. So I always have to have something from national distillers. And then I like to go for my favorite distillers of all time. And that would be someone like Edwin Fudd, or book or know or Lincoln Henderson or Parker beam, you know something that these great legendary iconic distillers would have touched. So that's not really a brand per se, but you got to do your homework to find out where they worked and what they did and what brands they touched on that and so that is that is one tool that I have always used as well, and you got to get something from the 1800s. I mean, it's kind of a it's a difficult acquisition. But if you can find the old bottle from the 1800s you feel pretty special about it. It's a pretty pretty cool feeling when you hold in your hand something that was created during President Benjamin Harrison's time I also like to always have a bottle from stetzer Weller Wild Turkey, old brown Forman products like old old forester from the 1960s the President's choice, and something I'm very fond of as getting those private labels that they used to make. Back in the day places like Macy's and grocery stores, they would all have private labels a bourbon. You're starting to see a little bit of a comeback of this, but it was really popular back in the day. One thing I like to stay away from though are the decanters, especially the Jim Beam decanters because you really never know how much is left in there. You know, some of them might be like too much lead in there, whatever. But there's a lot of decanters that I will not touch of course, that completely contradicts what I'm about to tell you. And that is the Old Crow chespin piece from the 1960s. It was absolutely it's absolutely the greatest bourbon I have ever tasted. And if you've never had the opportunity to taste it, you can go check out a bottle at the Bardstown bourbon company, the library there I curated. So those are really some of my key points when I'm when I'm looking for vintage whiskeys and they're all very personal you got to remember whiskey is is about your own journey as well as the hunt. So find out what it is you like and what stories means something to you and what people meant something to you and go chase them. So that's this week's above the char thanks a lot T and for that great idea and if you have an idea for above the char make sure you hit me up on Twitter, Instagram, or even YouTube now. Just search my name Fred MiniK. Until next week, cheers 7:39 Welcome everybody. It is the bourbon Community Roundtable number 39 and this is bourbon pursuit the official podcast of bourbon. This is one of the most favorite times of the podcast especially for us because we get to bring on all our good friends with inside of the community here the best bloggers around some of the best lawyers around that know about bourbon as well. And to be held in accountants. I mean, we got two accounts. Yeah. Got it, we're gonna we're going to start creating our own trade business at the end of this. And not only that is you know, we have people from all around the nation that are joining and watching us live and being a part of this conversation as well. Right now we're sitting around 63 concurrent viewers, hopefully gets 100 by the end of this. But with that, let's go ahead because we've got a whole lot of information to talk about, and I want to kind of get into this. So, Ryan, Fred, here we are again, man. You guys look looking forward tonight. 8:31 Yeah, I think this is a very important discussion to have tonight, and maybe it's one we've all wanted to have. 8:39 What are we discussing? 8:42 What happens what happens when you don't do the homework? Yeah. 8:45 I'm super excited to discuss that too. 8:48 Nice. Nice. Alright, so let's go ahead and round in our first one. So Blake from bourbon or how are you? I'm 8:53 doing well doing well. Thanks for having me, guys. Yeah, into my introduction. Yeah, I guess it's just our usual thing is usual Alright, I'm Blake from bourbon or if you're watching this you probably already know this is the, you know, longest standing tradition of making the roundtables, like call me the kin, Kendrick. Ken Griffey, also Cal Ripken of the round table but that's a follow me on all the social medias. Bo you are Bo and r.com as well as seal box calm, only have URLs where you have to spell it out and people are caught on What was that again? So seal boxes. Es el ba ch s. 9:36 And you got a new one right Southern barnburner I have that 9:39 one. I don't know. Is that is that you 9:43 know, is there a southern bourbon or out there? Yeah. 9:47 Yeah. Someone's copying you. 9:49 Talk boy hop on those URLs. Blake. Oh, yeah. 9:53 Go ahead and put that cease and desist out. 9:55 I'll get it together tonight. 9:57 You know, speaking of that, the kind of fakes and stuff that Come out there. Remember Ted Finnick? Remember those articles? Yeah, that 10:04 was whatever happened he had like a solid two month run and then all the sudden 10:08 it happens every now and then someone will come out and try to, you know, impersonate me or do some kind of, you know, fun satirical deal. And that's great. I love it. But what they don't realize is if you're going to try to impersonate me You better try to keep up because I go fast and 10:25 they realize like oh man this this is work now like 10:32 I'll just go back to making fun of him and in a Facebook forum you know and that's good 10:38 all right, Brian, you're up next buddy. 10:40 Yeah, thanks guys for having me again is Brian with sip and corn you can find me on the all the socials as sip and corn and you can also find me at bourbon justice calm. Look forward to a good show tonight. Guest 10:51 fantastic and Nick. 10:53 And I'm Nick with breaking bourbon calm. April 1. Breaking vodka calm that's been known to happen. But only that one day. And I can find us on all this socials at breaking bourbon. And thanks again for me on guys. 11:08 Absolutely. It's always great to have all of you on especially everybody else that's here in the chat. So let's go ahead and kind of start with our first question. If people in the chat they have something that they'd like to say with us as well speak now, we're going to be like to be able to put it out there for you. So the first we're going to talk about is the new change that happened with Instagram. Now, this is something that kind of, you know, maybe impacts the bourbon world a little bit, but more or less, just like the influencer market that's out there. So one of the recent changes that happened was they removed the ability to see the amount of likes that an individual has on a specific kind of post. And this can be for a few different reasons. You know, there's a lot of things that you know, you can buy likes out there, that's, that's not unheard of. You can buy followers as well, but one things you really can't buy or, you know, good comments or engagement and stuff like that. So I guess the one thing I'll kind of hand it over to what sir, who has the The most followers I'm it's either between bourbon or breaking who's got the most followers or aging? Probably. 12:05 Yeah, I'd have to check. I think we're just under 70,000 12:08 Yeah, okay. 12:12 I got 7070 12:16 Yeah, there's there's no thousand after it, 12:18 you'll get it. I mean, you know, I'll say this you know, our, it's all 100% organic we we've never gotten into, you know, anything where you sign up to get followers in some way, we pretty much just post What we want to talk about what we're drinking. We try to keep it light on there as much as possible, of course, will will post new content and that kind of thing. But we've really made that clear with you know, anybody who wants to, you know, be sponsored in some way that you know, really it's about what we want to do so sure, if you want to send us a sample of something, or a bottle That's fantastic, you know, we'll maybe review it maybe do a TNT you know, maybe it'll show up and Instagram but really, we still, you know, maintain and control that you know, from the like personal active, you know, we certainly use it as a gauge as to what, you know what people want to see, you know, what, you know, what times a week or times a day, you know, maybe that the times when more people are going to see those posts, you know, generally speaking, you know, number of likes, you know, you'll you'll gauge that it's kind of the, the, the, you know, that metric outside of kind of next next met metric, which is the interaction. So the number of comments on the post, which is, you know, some posts, we see a huge volume of comments and others, you know, not really much I think, sometimes when we direct people off to the site, we actually lose comments on the Instagram post itself, and people are getting pulled right off to the site to read the review. But that's the intent. You know, the idea is to kind of share that message, let people know there's something new up on this site. You know, what I think is interesting about this whole thing is it's being proposed as, and maybe there's some truth and validity to it, that, you know, it's to help with people's mental well being that kind of thing. But that being said, I think there's a part of That believes at some point, you know, these companies that want this data on, you know, unlikes are going to be able to buy it on the back end, they're going to be able to see that data, you know, through some kind of payment to Instagram, they're going to be able to figure out, you know, who the best engaging influencers are, if that's what you want to call them. And they're going to use that as a metric. Because right now, if you think of these, you know, these companies, if they're looking at, you know, number of followers, and they're looking at number of likes, those are really kind of just surface that just touches the surface of what's going on, you know, as far as the interaction goes, and they really want the interactions, they want people that are interacting with the community and in depth and really, you know, connected with the communities that they're talking to. And those couple of metrics, I'm not really sure, you know, fully, you know, fully show that so I think what we're going to see is I think we're going to see Instagram, really starting to take a bite out of this pie of, you know, these influencers who are making money on this journey, they want their piece and I think that's what's eventually going to come is you know, ways for those companies to kind of engage that data? 15:02 Nick, that's a fantastic answer, by the way. 15:04 next subject. Here we go. 15:07 Do you ever gauge your post between you and Jordan and just to see who has the most likes? 15:12 I think Jordan does that he's keeping track five state. Not really. We have I mean, we have fun with it. We're running scoreboard. 15:22 We do get excited. I will say when there's actually when there's comments is when we really get excited, I think I posted actually was the three of us together, we went to a local store, and he kind of let us in the back or he's got way too much. That's not like generally for sale. But he kind of said, you know, take what you want, you know, what do you want and, you know, we weren't we didn't go over Barba which got three bottles and stuff you just don't see. And you know, we kind of put them arrange them in group. So this is what each of us got, you know, my group, George's group, Eric's group when you just said which, which one would you pick? One, two or three. And we were amazed by how many comments we got. Matt, you know, because it's really interesting to see, you know, that dynamic of what people gravitated towards, you know, with the bundle or the one particular bottle they felt like was the strongest, you know, that kind of thing. So, we get more excited about I think interactions than just just plain old likes at this point. 16:16 Yeah, I kind of the question for you know, between you and Blake, you know, when you look at this, you know, the ultimate goal is that none of us are like making money off Instagram, right? None of us are. I guess the question is, is that what we want to do is want to figure out how do we convert these people that are looking at our stuff on Instagram to actually listening to a podcast or reading one of your articles, like, do you see Instagram as a medium to actually make that happen? Or just are people just excited to just be like, Oh, cool. Nick has a bottle of Pappy 20 all like that. For me. 16:45 I think it's just, you know, it's all part of the big big flywheel. So you know, there's, there's people who come to just see the Instagram and may see a blog post or something like that, and, you know, so it's kind of connecting it all. But I think Instagram is a good discovery tool. 17:02 So 17:04 somebody may not be you just Google searching and find you, but they may see you on Instagram. They're like, Oh, they have a blog they posted a review now I'll look at that. So I think it's it's really good for that just for discovering new new blogs, new new websites, all that kind of stuff. So it's not as big of on the likes, like I didn't think that was that big of a deal, at least in the whiskey industry. You know, I think Mikey putting the comments about, you can still see the inside. So companies want to see your analytics of how many likes and comments you get per post, they could still see all that it's more of like that forward facing just that vanity number of Oh, this post got 1000 likes it is crazy. I think they just took took away that and I mean, that's fine to me. I don't think it really affects anything that us do. Because, you know, like Kenny said, No, no one's really making money off of Instagram. At least I haven't figured out a way yet. So, you know, it kind of removes that removes a little bit of the vanity. 18:09 And so I think it's pretty good thing overall, 18:11 I think this is very important for the consumer. What this does is it kind of, it kind of deflates a trend that we've seen in, in whiskey in that there's been a shit ton of people who bought a bottle of bourbon five weeks ago, and suddenly they're an expert. And so, you know, Instagram seem to be a breeding ground for people coming into the game. And I, as you all know, I will help anybody trying to get into this business at you know, to create interesting content or ideas or videos, whatever. I am all about furthering the education and the conversation. And even if you are a new bourbon consumer, and you're bringing people into that journey, And you're just posting a bottle. There's nothing wrong with that. The the problem that has surfaced from these, you know, some of the what we would call influencers is that they were like, overnight experts, and they would they would post themselves as that I mean, and someone like, you know, Brian and myself has been doing this for more than a decade. You know, he just kind of kind of look at that and scratch your head. But at the same time, I have seen the impact of what the influencer community can do for for events and getting people to show up or even watch something. And I think it's really powerful. There's a guy scotch and time I thought I that what he has done has been really remarkable in that he kind of vetted a lot of influencers that would touch scotch whether they were a cigars or They were car people. And like with it, you know, with a flick of a finger or a reach out through Instagram, he would have all those people talking about an event. And before you know it, you know he touches a million people. And those are real people. And so I think there's an incredible amount of value to it. But we just have to be careful that we don't get ourselves in a situation where we're not providing real information or a real story that matters to somebody 20:32 kind of just the back of what Fred says, I think I love Instagram and I waste countless hours of it. That's why I've mostly delete social media during the week not to waste time on it but with Instagram, it's like you have shallow short and like you know what contents going to grab you at that instant and it's like, everything has to be epic and it makes it like so like dramatic and it's sad that we have to like remove likes because people put So much self worth, like in those that we're trying to fix, you know, people's mental health because they don't realize this is a highlight reel of someone's life or their life like when Blake's, you know, dropping a brisket and it wobbles, and he has to put, you know, juvenile 400 degrees on it. It's not because he's living this epic life. It has kids screaming in the 21:22 room in the background, like everybody's going crazy. That's why I have to put music over every single. 21:32 Like, those celebrities are like, look at me, I'm so epic, because I'm with my boys and we got like 10 bottles and we put like 40 filters on it to make it look like the craziest photo ever. But, you know, that's just my thought on it. 21:45 I will say that when I got when Instagram verified my account, and I got that little blue checkmark. I mean, there's there are a few things that I have celebrated. More than that, that was like in a weird way, it was like, you know for 22:03 let me interrupt few things you've celebrated more than that. 22:07 Well, in terms of like social media, I was about to go down, go down that road, like, I hate social media. But when I first started, like trying to, you know, sell books to publishers, they were like, you need Instagram followers, you need Twitter followers, you need this and now it's fucking YouTube. So you know, you have to have all of these things to be encompassing and so that's why you know, I've worked on that is because it's what the people who you know, put on events and you know, buy books at the publishing level or films or whatever, that's what they want. And at bourbon and beyond, you know, we assess bands based on you know, like a new up and coming band, we can assess a band based on the metrics from YouTube or Instagram, that's real life data. So when I got that like blue checkmark because I know how important that is for like, event planners And that's basically how I make a good chunk of my living is doing events around the world. And when I got that blue checkmark, I was like, I've made it. 23:10 I had no idea I was That's crazy. I mean, I was late to the game didn't get on to my daughter got me on. And it's it's eye opening to 23:18 actually just put a green check after my name. I think it's something similar to that. Blue check. I think it 23:24 will. The green check emoji. Yeah. 23:28 Yeah, it's pretty close. I think it'll pass in some places. So yeah, I mean, like I said, I think that was a really good kind of way to touch on it a little bit. And I guess the last thing that will kind of look in here is, you know, as if you're a company and you're still looking for that engagement, that influencer following I mean, it is this can be a deterrent for you not being able to see that or is it going to be like okay, now we have to get more data out of this person, try to figure out if they're actually a true influencer or not. I think 23:53 it's going to cause the companies to dig deeper 23:56 sites that give you those analytics. I mean, there's sites like You know, don't on it down 24:02 follower by user. 24:03 Yeah, by account. And I think it's I think Instagrams going to use that data, you know, I think they're going to collect more data, I would think that they, at some point are going to try to be in between, because if you think right now, if there's transactions happening between companies in between influencers she got in, it's happening outside of Instagram, but then the post and the activity, the thing that they want is happening inside of Instagram, I gotta believe that, if I'm Instagram, why wouldn't I want a portion of that? Why would I want to be the one to connect those two entities? And if anything, we may see a lot more of that because right now, it's really pretty ad hoc, you know, especially if you're not somebody that's, you know, a huge Instagram personality that's got it figured out, you know, or a big company that's got it figured out you know, you've got smaller companies seeing it seeing like seeing followers thinking, Okay, there's a big audience here. Maybe they don't understand that but they might want to throw some money. They may not know how to connect with quality, the influencers I think we may see a lot more connectivity there, you know, between between these two parties with Instagram actually in the middle taking a portion of it, which to me that's even a little bit more scary you know, because as of right now you got to be cautious about what you're seeing and reading because what's really what's really behind it, you know, and there's certainly some markets out there where just about all the information that's out there is got somebody money behind it is very difficult to find real information, you know, that somebody has put together on their own without the influence from somebody money. 25:33 Okay, last question as we kind of tail off on this. Should Instagram also hide the amount of followers that you have, 25:40 I think that would start to deter even more from people reaching out to you know, influencers and all that kind of stuff. So I think that would hurt their, you know, they can kind of get away with hiding the likes and you know, gets a nice PR push, but if they started hiding followers and all of that. I mean, you know, the whole mental health thing I get, but it's like, if somebody is drawing value in their own life, because of how many Instagram followers, they have Instagrams not gonna be able to solve that problem in their life, you know, it's going to take something more. And, you know, it's a sad thing to say, but it is true. Like, if that's where you're deriving value from with your life, like, you need to take a step back in general. And that's just a small byproduct of I'm sure some deep seated issues. 26:34 So 26:35 kind of a, on a serious note to bring it back. 26:39 No, like, what's the point that I mean, you know, we're all on there to build a bigger following and reach bigger audience. So take it for what it is. It's a tool to talk to more people about whiskey. It's not something that you should be waking up in the middle of the night thinking why don't I have 100,000 26:56 followers every time my posts don't get as much likes his kidneys. I'm liking that. You're in a funk. You know, 27:07 I who cares what they do? I mean, I just all I mean every, every day, they're all changing their algorithms and you know, one day it's all going to go away or be changed and highly regulated. Just, it's not worth worrying about or even thinking about. It's all stupid. 27:24 Yeah, like speaking of stupid, let's go ahead and move on to another stupid topic. So some fun. 27:28 Yes. Alright. 27:30 Cool. So, last week, Blake broke a lot of hearts out there across the nation, as he got rid of you know, he always has to be tech map, but he said this year, and never again, will there ever be another Pappy release map. And so that kind of led into a good blog posts that kind of talked about really the problems that he sees with it. You know, even if you do find a bottle, Pappy. odds are you're not going to be paying retail because I think he said there's about it. Maybe a two to 5% chance that there's that's all the retailers that are left across the nation that are actually selling theirs at suggested retail price. And so this kind of leads into the sort of the next question and it also kind of tails off on a lot of things that we had discussed or kind of took the the brunt end of it. A few weeks ago when we had a counterfeiter on the podcast, and people were talking about, okay, well, you need to go talk to Sandra, you need to pull you need to put them online, they should be responsible for this. Like they need to answer the questions that people we reached out to saceur and PR, and we asked for somebody to come on the show to try it and provide some transparency. And we knew this was going to be a sensitive subject. And we're willing to give all the questions up front just in case they wanted to prepare their answers. However, resizer at the respectfully declined our offer, and they do not wish to answer any of our questions. So we're going to do what we do best and make all sorts of frivolous claims and conspiracy theories. 28:53 Thank you. lations. 28:54 Yes, so everything you hear from this point forward and me button right now. 29:00 Go ahead and throw that Brian's 29:02 way. 29:04 So anything that you hear from here on out is our own opinions. Nothing that is factual or true or anything. This is just something that we're all just kind of talking about as just kind of friends and kind of just putting our ideas out there. So, the first thing we kind of look at here is, of course, we all know that the van winkles were kind of the face of the secondary market take down we talked about it, you know, we recorded it bourbon and beyond. We put it out there the whole world got to hear. However, I kind of want to put it out there for you all. Do you believe that there, you know, there are bigger wheels in motion behind this. And it's actually Sazerac as a whole. And it's really the Van Winkle is just kind of had to be the puppet in this. 29:42 We're not going to fall on the sword with you, Kenny. Let's you're on your own. 29:47 When you look at it, it's kind of like the perfect storm. So the Van Winkle is have the face where everyone knows Pappy and everybody wants to get Pappy and that's you know, that's I'll step out and say that's the majority of what was being sold and traded and everything on the secondary market. It helps when you have a billion dollar company that also hates the secondary behind you and that's that's where azurite came in. So you know where I think Preston said where he fail which was you know, he hated the secondary market and all this stuff but more Julian and everyone else falls I don't know. But you know, to me and I just think it's really misguided Is this the best way I don't want to say it's dumb or stupid because I think they have their reasons but I think they missed out on they're actually targeting their their biggest you know, cheerleaders and their biggest promoters by going after the secondary market in you know, to go after the secondary market and not just put some, you know, anti counterfeiting measures on their bottle. I think that's the biggest thing. And I have a, you know, my prop is in the background of how much I feel like they actually do care about the consumer. And you know, you look at the 2017, Pappy 15 year, they put the wrong foil cap, they put the red cap on the bottle instead of the black cap and just let it go out to market. I mean, I can't think of any other product where they put the wrong cap on it just like who cares? Send it no big deal. And that's to me that was like a bigger slap in the face that actually going after the secondary the fact that you know, these things are how crazy people go. And it wasn't like there was a press announcement meant before it was just like they started popping up and for like, hey, the 15 years got a red cap on it this year. Like oh, bottling mistake, it's good. So, it took us 20,000 31:55 bottles before we realized screw let it go. 31:58 Like I just You know, we send one sticker out wrong and you're going to get a reply automatically you send it out, Hey, sorry, we sit around sticker, whatever. So that to me was just kind of like, what are we really going after here and ultimately, Cedric says or ex defense of the three tier system, which they are strongly embedded in, they believe in the three tier system, they think three tier system should be there no matter what. And they see the secondary market as, you know, a deterrent to the three tier system or you know, impeding the three tier system. And ultimately, it's not about taking down the secondary, it's about making sure that that three tier system is in place, and ongoing forever. 32:44 They were even against like the da Vinci spirits. 32:48 Lucky. So, you know, for me, like that's what the secondary market was was to go and enjoy looking at those beautiful old bottles. That would occasionally pop up from the 50s and 60s, I gave two shits about Pappy. And, you know, but that's what led the conversation in it really, it comes down to it comes down to every single year for that company. They have the hottest Bourbons that everybody wants in every major city in the country and the small ones in every country in the world. How do they get there? How do they get it there? And then in between those these things that happen, they're staffed within their own company. You know, there's small little counterfeiters here and there you got ridiculous hype, you know, driving around it, like from like the from the fortune story about billionaires can't even get a bottle to help us talking about it. I mean, for God's sake, I mean, I've my whole Pappy versus the field thing on YouTube. Was was an experiment for me just at halftime. I'm fine with it, but, but it was like, you know, I'm part of the problem. So I guess, you know, before we kind of jump into some other questions here, does anybody else kind of think that? You know, was it really like why make the van winkles the face of this? 34:18 With the careers of master distiller spanning almost 50 years, as well as Kentucky bourbon Hall of Famer and having over 100 million people taste his products. Steve nalli is a legend of bourbon who for years made Maker's Mark with expertise and precision. 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Like, is anybody else have a kind of theory about behind that? 36:24 Well, I mean, do you think that says rack is making the Van Winkle face? Or do you think the van winkles are recognizing that of their own volition and in you know, driving and as well themselves? 36:36 This is all theory, man. So if you think that, you know, they had the wheels in motion behind this, and they're just like, hey, Preston, we're going to go ahead and let you be the punching bag. This today like what what do you really think that was it or you really think that maybe the vein winkles actually do legitimately care about the secondary market? 36:52 I think they were the face no matter what I mean, if four roses came out and tried to do the same thing, it's like well You know, you the small batch limited edition gets flipped a little bit but and nobody's going to step up from a bottle from 1950 you know, some old still Weller nobody's going to step up and like try to shut it down on their behalf so I think they were just kind of already the face. 37:19 But I don't think anyone else really, I guess could be the face in a sense of, you know, if you think about it is a very family business in a way you know, if you look at if you look at says rack and that company, you know, that that teaming up with the van winkles and partnership was a fantastic move, you know, for their product line. You know, that whatever caused Van Winkle and Pappy Van Winkle, you know, all the things that, you know, you look at the dominoes that fell years ago that just caused the popularity to skyrocket. You know, there's no question that that's overflowed into you know, a lot of says RX product And now we've got this, you know, we've got this this kind of like beast that's feeding itself in a way, because we've got us as, as bourbon enthusiasts, as drinkers who talk about this stuff all the time, who buy this stuff and want this stuff. I mean, I look in my, in my, in my collection here, and I've definitely got like a high percentage of Sazerac type products that I've kind of like stocked up on just based on that, geez, I don't think I'm going to see it again for a while. I better buy a few of them, as opposed to Yeah, I see it all the time. I'll just get one. What do I need three, four, you know, and so then we've got the distributors using it to hold over the retailers as a product to buy more products and is not just sanitary products, but it's stuff they want to move as well, because they're in it to make money. You know, you know, so you've and then you've got the retailers who don't put this stuff on the shelves. So no matter how much they're making, it appears to be a ghost, whatever it might be, even though there might be a lot of it because of a retailer's holding it back and taking you by You know, by the by the shoulder and saying by the arm and saying, Hey, I got something special, you're, you're a good guy like you, you want to, you're suddenly saying, I am special? I do want that. Absolutely. And then it's not even a question about it, you know, so get everybody really believing that all these products are insanely hard to get that's causing people to hoard them, stockpile them, and buy more of them, and then that's what's causing the price to go up. So the secondary in a way, has kind of helped their cause in a sense, you know, at the same time, you know, it's, they're, they're a company, you know, you got to look at say, what are you doing to stop, you know, counterfeit bottles to stop these things from going on to prevent illegal activity? You know, so how much of it is them really wanting to stop it versus just okay, I suppose we really should, you know, apply and make it look like we're doing something over here, 39:46 Nick, I think it's more than just that that helped them. I mean, it's the horse they wrote, it's the it's the reason that those brands are as popular as they are today. And now there's at least 15 turn their back on that secondary market but that's that's what made them and maybe once you make it that big you can turn your back on it and you can try to take this holier than thou attitude toward it, but it got them there and I mean maybe it'll push them back down if they if they push back against, you know Corky Taylor from peerless when I asked him about this you know at bourbon and beyond he he said that he's like this is like it's a mistake, that this whole thing was like punishing the the hardcore consumers that really has brought, you know, bourbon to where it's at right now. But I'm telling you all the van winkles in the 90s every single day they were near closure, you know that that's a company where 40:51 everybody wants to hate on them, but it was they had a long road. Long Road to get here and You know, and they, they get probably far more hate mail hate mail than all of us combined on on a yearly basis, because people can't get bottles and they get all these stories that are connected to them. And so I think a lot of what we caught on that stage in September was frustration, and I don't think saceur i don't think i don't think sads rag put then we close up to this, I think they wanted to do it. And I think Preston on that stage that day wanted to get it off his chest and you know, they, they're angry about it. They're angry about the fact that someone can sell a bottle that that's who's not a licensed retailer, they're also angry about the people who are jacking up prices and liquor stores. And here's the thing as they say they can't do anything about that, that that's true. So the liquor stores who are price gouging, you know, are protected by federal laws that prevent, prevent alcohol companies. From dictating pricing, so, like Mac and these like ambos, they they like fixed their prices and prices and retailers can't, can't do they can't jack the prices up alcohol cannot do that. And that all goes back to the 40s and 50s. And ironically, the Pappy Van Winkle testified in Congress talking about all the price fixing that was going on in the industry. So they are in a hard spot. And I, you know, it, it's, it's a know when to know when if they jack up their prices to kind of like, you know, meet the demand, they're in trouble. You know, they get yelled at, you know, and if they don't do anything, they get yelled at, but, but what it came down to is they made a business decision. And, and they, I think, I don't think they made the best business decision, but they made what they thought was best for their company. 42:53 Fred to piggyback on that, you know, I think that they do internalize what they went through and I think there's got to be a part of them that says, if we raise our prices today, this, you know, we've kind of gotten lucky in a way. I mean, if I were them, I would certainly feel like, man, we really got lucky over the years with how popular our product has become, what if we push it too hard, and we lose what we've gained. And we're back to where we were? Yeah, so I gotta believe it for them. That's got to be going on. I mean, that's a human thing to feel. I would think if any of us in that position would probably be, you know, thinking the same thing. 43:28 You know, and this is this is all kind of coming back around because, you know, Christopher Hart and a few other people with inside the chat, you know, they were saying like, Oh, it's all the vein, winkles. It's not SAS rack. And I'm kind of saying, I'm kind of the opposite. And I'll kind of give you my, my theory on this. Because, you know, when I look at this, I look at, you know, the vein winkles is the face of this and they come out saying that the main argument is behind counterfeiting, and that's a pretty weak excuse, like, actually, it's a shitty excuse my opinion, like because they're not doing anything to prevent it. They're not doing anything to invest in it to make anything happen me Blake made a pretty good example about that even quality control at Sazerac was poor enough to even see that happen. And what was the real point of just going after the secondary market? So if I think about this, and I think a few steps back, and I think a little bit higher up the ladder, I'm like, Okay, well, I want to put these people to faces because the most popular brand out there, and it's something that people are going to recognize. And if it's coming from them, all these bourbon nerds, you know, crazy, they're going to talk about it. And people are talking already on on here that saying, you know, we're doing it like we're giving them the more press that they're already going to get right. So we're giving free marketing. And this is another theory that I kind of heard from somebody else as well, is that sazzle is expanding. I mean, they've got more warehouses coming out, they've got more distilleries coming online. And the goal behind this is to not have so much focus, being on just a few select brands. Instead, what they want to be able to do is they want to be able to try to spread the pie even further. Get these hands and get these bottles in the hands of more people, not the allocated products, but the stuff that's coming online. And you got to be able to get it in such a way that people aren't just talking about the same five bottles all the time. Now, I also kind of look at this in another way is that this is a, this is a very bad thing for bourbon. Because we know Fred talked about a little bit earlier. And, and I think we've all had that same feeling that when we're able to sit there, and we're able to scroll, and we're able to see these cool bottles from the 50s and old Miller antiques from the 70s. And like all these like, you know, old Willett wax tops, and people are just going you know, they're going crazy for it. And they just want to rip it away for why for counterfeiting. Like, that's bullshit. Like it's bullshit, right? There's got to be something that's a little bit little bit higher here to make this a real a real claim and a real excuse and it can't be counterfeiting. So I'm just saying that there's there's some dots in my head that aren't connecting. To make it say that counterfeits are really the real angle 45:56 here when the Attorney General's 46:00 For the country all the states basically issued a joint letter saying that they're going to be cracking down on secondary market that's that the bad week goes guys 46:10 I'm sure Julian has 46:11 some connections but for to get 47 out of the 50 Attorney General's 46:17 and let me tell you, they're all playing on that date the Dominican Republic, minibar stuff and the whole seller world boy they seize that opportunity better than you know it. Yeah, anything since prohibition I mean, my 46:35 god, 46:36 they're like all see, look what happens here when we allow shipping. You can die. You know, you could die from alcohol poisoning and vultures will be eating your guts on the beach. It's just ridiculous. how far they took that? 46:52 I don't think says right really gives a shit as whiskey geeks we think would they care these whiskey brands care about what we think and like These really high end bottles matter that the reality is, those things are like 5% of their business. It's like low on the totem pole. It's more of a pain they asked for them. They're thinking more grander bigger. I just don't think that counterfeiting or the Van Winkle. I mean, yes, they wanted but I just don't think they would put all these resources in it into that when they're just there as on how much fireball how much Buffalo Trace, can we push out there and do it globally? Not that that's what they're focused on, I think. 47:31 Yeah, I think if anything, it's a reaction. I can agree with that to Ryan and the van winkles. It may be more internal, you know, they're invested in it. 47:39 But I think I think the van winkles it's like Fred said, they've got so much sweat equity and all this and, you know, it's their family history and they're just for lack of better term butthurt about it. You know, that people can flip it on the market for 10 x what they you know, because a $300 bottle, they're probably making you know, 9200 bucks on it you know and then and then it's selling for 1518 $2,000 i mean you know that's probably more of it for me but 48:07 but okay here's the thing like they can control that why don't they do it? 48:10 Well they could I guess but for they can just why don't they sell it for two grand but the same amount of hate from the other side saying well you sold out you 48:21 know what Booker's do when they raise the $20 they're like hell fuck the head 48:26 I kind of nonsense 48:28 yeah their perspective you know they I can't imagine the amount you know as Fred said they probably get the amount of hate mail all of us combined on a daily basis you know, it's probably pretty frustrating to get like they think they're doing the right thing by just keeping the prices lower and I'm sure every random you know guys email them saying oh, I used to buy your bottles for $50 a bottle and loved it now I can't get it. And you got a you know, I'm sure it's millennial thrown in there somewhere who's ruining it or like You know a guy in skinny jeans and a flannel shirts probably the reason why they can't live happy anymore. But you know they're probably frustrated with that like I would be too I don't you know i don't blame them but I just think they're taking the wrong approach 49:16 doesn't keeping that bottle at $90 encourage secondary flipping 49:22 you know, but indirectly if they crease it so so say they came out next year and happy 15 was just $500 I guarantee you they'd get even more hate because of that. I think but I could be wrong. I mean, ultimately I you know, I think it like Ryan said this is not a big I think all these limited releases is something they want to get behind them. You know that we Jordan an eye toward heaven Hill, and it was crazy the amount of spirits that were flowing through there and bourbon was, I mean, we saw way more watermelon vodka and flavored rums and all this stuff that we had never seen just, you know, hundreds of thousands of cases moving through their Eliza correct 23rd year was not even on the radar of what was what was important and what was, you know, kind of moving the profit loss statement. So I think it is kind of that necessary evil they want, they want to have it they want that, you know, the history and the heritage and everything else. But at the end of the day, that's not what makes these places profitable for raising prices really, 50:35 I mean, well, it isn't, it's still, you know, flips for double for you know, instantly it 50:40 will, it will it has a little bit because will it that that affects the bottom line and a little bit more, you know, if you double the price of something that is affecting your bottom line by like, point 05 percent, 50:52 you know, it's only one to 2% of their total business like that. They cut almost All their gift shop sales of it because it became such a pain in the ass. They were getting ABC letters from people saying like, or not from people that from the ABC, that people were turning them in, you know, saying like, well, they're just selling to certain people and you know, then they're like, well, the hell with it, we're not even gonna deal with anymore because it's just do this for the, you know, the whiskey and this is turned into a more headache than than it needs to be. 51:23 So I want to bring something up that Kenny said at the very top, and that's like, I want everyone to know, like how hard we work to get a representative from Sazerac to come on and talk about this. And we thought we had someone across the finish line, but we did not say Hey, come on this show. You know, we respected that person's position and his future with with that respective company. And I just want to tell you that anytime we have we've all given a lot we've sung a lot of things haven't hills way. Anytime I have ever written anything. Negative about heaven Hill, they reach out to me and they explain anytime I've ever written anything about Jim Beam, they reach out to me and explain and you know, sometimes they won't talk to me for six months, but they will they will still have a conversation with me. What we're looking at here we are looking at a very, a very closed in organization. Arguably it's the best whiskey that's out there and hungry consumers who want to know more. And if anyone from saceur acts listening, I'm just telling you that the playing it like playing the game of like not talking about this is only hurting you is only hurting you and and you got to come on you got to talk about this because people people are fascinated about it from a business perspective as well. I mean, in addition to Kenny's like, right vein popping up over here when he's got a blood draw tomorrow, you know, I'm getting concerned about him. People are absolutely fascinated with the business. A bourbon. So let's talk about one of the most key issues in our industry. And that is allocation. How do you decide to do allocation? I would love to have that conversation. 53:13 And so there's one other thing I kind of want to also bring up as we were talking about raising prices in this just kind of like just jogged my memory a little bit, you know, when Blake came out with his article, you know, saying that maybe there's like 5% of retailers nationwide that are actually still selling at us, Rp. And let's, let's be, let's be generous. We'll give it the 8020 rule say 20% of retailers nationwide are still selling it SRP 53:34 even if they generally are state run, you've got state run to start with, right. Okay. So then there's all them and then you've got the other ones with a lot of big retailers are doing lotteries 53:44 across the board. Even if they said rk Well, guess what the new SRP for Pappy 15 500 bucks. There's still 80% of the country that's still going to charge more than 500 bucks that's fine. Right in the 20%. That's there. Yeah, sure. little bitch, but whatever. Like, I think most people get over it. And, and not only that is most people, if they have the offer to buy a $500 bottle, most people are going to do it anyway, because that's the only time they're ever gonna get their hands on it. So I don't really see a whole lot of blowback, even if they were to raise the price in the back end. However, I've always been one to always say, you know, kudos to Sazerac and the entire portfolio of actually kind of sticking to their guns and really not raising prices across the board on any any allocated bourbon, you know, so it's, it's one thing that is cool to be the bourbon consumer and just say, like, hey, it's always a good deal. If you can find it a retailer, right? If I could find the owner to leave for $45. Cool, great deal. If it's 150. Maybe it's a pass. So that's just one of the things that, you know, over the over the years, I'm just really surprised that we stuck with him. And kind of like the last question I want to throw as regards to this. You all think other distilleries are happy with sizer x actions here or Van Winkle, his actions whoever it is to actually take down This, this singular, or should I say the big secondary market groups? 55:04 I think that's an even more interesting question, because so far nobody has jumped on board to publicly say, yeah, we're with them. We should, you know, be doing something to combat that. And maybe it is because, you know, if we look at it says rack are the leading products in the majority of that, you know, it's it's dusty bottles, and it's 55:26 sad, it says right products. 55:29 But I do think it's interesting that nobody has really kind of jump in to fight the battle with them. And you know, whether that's because they disagree or whether that's because they want to see how it you know, the consumer is going to react, I don't know, but 55:46 the longer other distilleries stay out of that fight, I think it's better for the consumer. 55:53 Well, I think here in the United States, you know, I think the market is just very, very small, relatively speaking. You know, maybe there's counterfeiting going on and other countries where it's more of a massive problem that we're just not in tune with that we don't know, you know, you see videos pop up on YouTube have these like mass production type situations where people are bottling, you know, something in in a counterfeit nature that it definitely appears to be in a different country, you know, where it's going to be, you know, sold in some black market. But here in the United States, you know, I think it's really resolved mostly to the enthusiast crowd, you know, to the crowd is trying to be istock bars and restaurants and high end places like that, you know, as a percentage of sales. I it's got to be really small. What I would really like to see and I know, you know, I know producers distilleries Listen to this. I would like to see a movement from producers and distilleries, you know, from somewhere to kind of create this market. How do we, you know, people are going to buy and sell, they're going to if this stuff is going to change hands, it's going to happen. You know, the market is going to find a way because somebody has it, somebody else will it plain and simple, that's just how it's going to work. Right? So if it's not this thing, it's going to be the next thing. So I would like to see a movement to get behind that, you know, in a way that doesn't encroach on the new production, the new businesses, stuff that does go through the three tier system, the normal way, there's plenty that doesn't, you know, there's plenty of stuff like Fred mentioned, you know, the older stuff, the stuff people find in their grandparents basements, that somebody else wants, that is of no value to the person who found it, but have tremendous value to maybe somebody else. And in some cases, maybe a lot of other people. You know, as we've seen with these charity auctions, and things of that nature, where these bottles can raise a tremendous amount of money, there's certainly a market for it. And I really believe, you know, the producers, especially the big producers should get behind that kind of, you know, they're behind the culture, if they're, you know, touting the history and those kinds of things. put your money where your mouth is, and make it so that we can have them market that everybody wants and is going to have anyway. 57:56 You know, what's funny is there was a secondary market called classified ads forever. Like, in through my research, I found so many bottles for sale and like small newspapers and people would just, you know, go and buy him but I'll say this like, Christopher Hart brought this up, Ryan and I were on his show. It'll be I think it airs this week as well. But I brought up the fact that I do think that second you know, he brought up two factors like the secondary market is will always survive in these forums in some way, shape or form. And not I do not believe that I am seeing an uptake of federal authorities getting involved with this. I mean, this is a very serious issue. The same people who were involved and taking down Big Tobacco in the 1990s you're starting to see them focus on alcohol while at the same time you have a incredible large movement within the health community try and ban advertising. So the second the all this alcohol stuff falls under kind of like two battles one you have one trying, you know, one side trying to block the lead Sales and you have another side, you know, for whatever reason they're trying to block illegal sales on the other side, you have people who are trying to ban alcohol and social media. So you've got, I mean, right now it's coming at to France. And in some ways, that's why it's kind of mark Browns head has always been a very he's always been very conservative about this. And so if like if you were to put yourself in his shoes of like you're trying to protect what you do protect your company in the best way you think is possible. You know, you may pursue something like this to prevent it. But the fact is, is what no one ever seems to grasp. Is that us, the bourbon fan, the consumer, you know, I just feel like all of these, if anything is, is going to change. It has to come from us. You know, there was a few years ago, New York tried to ban fantasy, fantasy gaming, you know, within five hours every Saturday In New York, I had heard from people in their area that never even considered politics, and they changed it just like that. Now we can all play fantasy football and make money off of it. So if if we are going to save any, you know, semblance of what the secondary market is or what a meant to us, it's got to come from us. And we have to start like, pushing it. We have to, like, you know, write our congressmen and our state senators and say, like, you know, this is an issue that's important to us. And, believe it or not, you know, if Wade Woodard and people like that multiply, I mean, who can handle 20 letters from Wade water today? 1:00:43 And Fred, I go bigger than that. I mean, the three tier system is antiquated. It's rooted in Prohibition era, sentiments and law. I mean, that whole the whole system's got to go and if part of that is a more even more robust vintage Law then we already have that really resembles what the secondary market looks like. So be it, it'll be a safer market. If folks like Sazerac and the other producers, take anti counterfeiting measures, it'll be a safer market. We've got to go to more. I mean, I'm always an open market guy. But here I really am for partly out of self interest, but that's where we've got to go. We've got to go to less regulation and more openness on it. 1:01:26 Yeah. Let's say let's stage a DC protest. Hey, hey, three teams gotta go. I don't know how 1:01:34 to go to DC and drink bourbon. 1:01:37 Next to the 30 other picketers 1:01:40 actually, what would happen is everybody would just end up with jack rose, and no one would go do anything. We pretty much 1:01:47 like that idea. 1:01:48 We need some members of Congress while we're there, though. 1:01:51 Yeah. 1:01:52 What guy with a retail license in DC so we can maybe set something up, I think, Oh, yeah. Let's do it. 1:02:00 Trying to get the RV let's go 1:02:01 gas it up 1:02:02 alright so let's go ahead we'll kind of wrap this up on a little bit higher now because this is this is the Thanksgiving episode so happy Thanksgiving everybody Hope you're if you're driving you're maybe you're just starting to try to fall asleep to some trip the fan little slip or something like that but let's go ahead and kind of go around a little bit and kind of talk about you know what we're thankful for and bourbon in 2019 if there's something that was awesome that happened to you whether it was growing or do anything like that or just laying a cool bottle 1:02:32 we're like in height 1:02:36 Sure, why not in with 1:02:39 I'll jump in. 1:02:41 So, 1:02:42 first I'm going to plug an article that's coming this week. And some bourbon are always do an article about, you

Brian and Blake are back with another episode of the Chasing Tone podcast.So Blake was loaned a multi-scale guitar by Jaymar Guitars. This lead to a discussion about tele’s, benders and Brian’s obsession with the telecaster. The guys also discuss what a multi-scale guitar actually is.Fender did a study and discovered 90% of new guitarists abandon the instrument in the first year. Brian and Blake discuss some of the nuances behind this discovery.Some wondered if it was really going to come out. Some people even pondered the idea that it was not even real. But finally, the Terraform has hit the market. The guys celebrate the accomplishment.Blake needs a bender, Bill Murray, and The Matrix V2? It’s all in this week’s episode of the Chasing Tone podcast.Find us at: http://www.WamplerPedals.comhttp://www.Facebook.com/WamplerPedalshttp://www.Twitter.com/WamplerPedalshttp://www.Instagram.com/WamplerPedalshttp://www.Facebook.com/ChasingTonePodcasthttp://www.facebook.com/groups/wamplerfanpage/

Brian and Blake are back with another episode of the Chasing Tone podcast.So Blake posted a picture of his Boss BF2 Flanger on Instagram, and it started an interesting discussion about how people perceive voltage affecting the pedals tone. Some believe the more the better, while others claim cool effects with low voltage. Brian talks about what may be happening.There seems to be a little Facebook fatigue affecting the volume of traffic in some of the gear groups. Is it just Facebook, or is the trend happening across all of social media? Where is everyone going to discuss gear? Brian and Blake discuss it.What constitutes a “sell out”? Is success a sign that you have “sold out”? The term is used quite often and the guys take a look at some of the reasons.Reverb’s shooting a film, Brian wants to build his own pre-amp and does pitch correction work? It’s all in this week’s episode of the Chasing Tone podcast.

The Bourbon Community Roundtable is back with talk about Turkey, Rare Breed Rye and more rye whiskey coming to market. We then look at the landscape and ask ourselves “is bourbon priced fairly in today’s market?” because we often get blamed for calling bourbon undervalued. We wrap the show talking about the Jim Beam AirBNB as a potential PR stunt. Show Partners: The University of Louisville now has an online Distilled Spirits Business Certificate that focuses on the business side of the spirits industry. Learn more at uofl.me/pursuespirits. At Barrell Craft Spirits, they explore whiskey in an entirely new way. The team selects and blends barrels of whiskey into something greater than the sum of its parts. Find out more at BarrellBourbon.com. Receive $25 off your first order at RackHouse Whiskey Club with code "Pursuit". Visit RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. Distillery 291 is an award winning, small batch whiskey distillery located in Colorado Springs, Colorado. Learn more at Distillery291.com. Show Notes: This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about blending. What do you think about Wild Turkey's new online videos called Talk Turkey with Matthew McConaughey? Episode 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VM3duQSIU3U Let's talk Rare Breed Rye. Do you think Elijah Craig will come out with barrel proof rye? What about Elijah Craig Rye not being released in some states? Can distilleries really come out with more expressions? Who here thinks bourbon has been over or undervalued in its category and why? Do we need that million dollar bottle for bourbon? Who here thinks we are a problem? Let's discuss some research on the growth of American whiskey. Report from ResearchAndMarkets.com: https://www.researchandmarkets.com/reports/4849286/american-whiskey-market-by-type-bourbon?utm_source=BW&utm_medium=PressRelease&utm_code=f832dw&utm_campaign=1311293+-+American+%2416.8+Billion+Whiskey+Market+to+2025%3a+Focus+on+Bourbon%2c+Tennessee%2c+Rye+Whiskey&utm_exec=chdo54prd What do you think about renting Jim Beam’s Historic Kentucky Home on Airbnb? https://www.travelandleisure.com/hotels-resorts/vacation-rentals/jim-beam-bourbon-historic-kentucky-home-airbnb Thanks to Blake from bourbonr.com and Jordan from BreakingBourbon.com for joining. 0:00 Hey everybody. If you have a bachelor's degree and live anywhere in the United States, there's now a way for you to take your bourbon education to the next level. The distilled spirits business certificate from the University of Louisville is an online program that can be completed in as little as 15 weeks and will prepare you for the business side of the spirits industry. It's offered by the AA CSP accredited college of business. And this certificate was developed in partnership with industry experts to be one of a kind and it's going to prepare you for your next adventure. Learn more about this online program at U of l.me. Slash pursue spirits. 0:37 Although I like Justin Deering's comment of all you need is slack discord, Microsoft Teams in Skype to communicate these days, all of which are like for I don't have it all. So I feel like I'm even more behind the times 0:50 because I thought it was like I don't think your broadband can handles 1:07 Welcome back, everybody. It is Episode 225 of bourbon pursuit. I'm one of your heroes Kenny and the past few weeks we've been covering a lot of recent bourbon news. So this week there isn't too much to cover but there is one new release and that is that the master distiller of Michter's Dan McKee as well as their master of maturation, Andrea Wilson have announced the release of their 20 year old bourbon, the 20 1920 year bourbon will be bottled at 114.2 proof and will have an MSRP of $700 Now this one is pretty coveted by a lot of affluent Burton people out there. So good luck this hunting season trying to find it. Well, that's really all the industry news for now, because the roundtable is where we're going to discuss some of the latest happenings and as usual with tonight's topics, you will find links to the articles in our show notes. But we need to talk a little bit about bourbon pursuit news lately. So let's kind of talk about what's happening with that. 2:00 pursuit series is moving at a rapid pace. This week we sold out of Episode 17 in record time. Of course, this really wasn't a surprise to us because this was our privately labeled will it distillery barrel of their own product which is the first NDP private label that has ever happened happening under their pursuit series brand. And we've also opened up Episode 12 and 13 to the public and you can purchase those today by going to pursuit spirits.com with seal box as our online retail partner these bottles can be shipped to a good percentage of states around the country in to your doorstep. There are less than 50 bottles of Episode 12 and only 30 bottles of Episode 13 remaining so go and check it out. We're also now hitting retail stores in Kentucky. The first private barrel that was selected by Justin's House of bourbon has been delivered and is now available on their floor as well as on their tasting bar. This is Episode 14 and I remember when Ryan and I were tasting this barrel, it just hit Like a mouthful of Captain Crunch berries. And if you are in or around the Lexington area Ryan and I will be at Justin's House of bourbon on November 5 at six o'clock pm eastern to talk about this release and pursuit spirits just more in depth. You can get more information about this event on our Facebook page with the link in our show notes. And we really hope to see you there. But we're still not done yet. Episode 15 was a barrel that we selected that will be hitting shelves across Kentucky starting next week. This barrel show notes talk about some of the most pronounced flavors that we got out of it. And it's a chocolate cherry pound cake. Heidelberg who is our distributor has told us that they started filling out purchase orders this week. So you will begin to see it pop up on shelves across liquor stores as well as on premise locations in Kentucky. So if you're a retailer and you'll be carrying our bourbon send us a message we can give you a shout out on some of our social pages. Well, that's all let's go ahead and get on with the show. Here's Joe from barrel bourbon. Then you've got Fred Minnick with above the char. 4:03 I'm Joe Beatrice, founder of barrell craft spirits, we explore whiskey in an entirely new way. My team at barrel craft spirits, selects and blends barrels of whiskey into something greater than the sum of their parts. Pick up a bottle today. 4:17 I'm Fred Minnick, and this is above the charm. This week's idea comes from Patreon subscriber Andrew Polonsky. He asks, What do you think of all the blending compared to single barrels and small batch? Now, Andrew, this is a great question and you obviously have been reading my work for some time to know that this will spark a real passion and me to talk about the history of the word, blend. See the word blend and American whiskeys always been a dirty term and it goes back to the 1800s when blenders were adding things like tobacco spit and prune juice, and these people were called rectifier and they were working with wholesalers and putting it out on the street people would buy it. Doctors would even prescribe it and They would find that their patients would not get well. So that led to the effort of the bottle and Bond Act where distillers lobbied so bourbon consumers could be protected. Doctors could have a guarantee that they were serving their prescribing their patients legitimate, pure 100 proof whiskey, but the Canadian whiskey blunders did not like it at all. At that time, the Canadians were coming into America starting to sell their whiskey for the cheap knocking out the straight distillers and some of the people that we know is like George t stag, EH Taylor. And so there started this feud at that time between blenders both American and Canadian and straight whiskey distillers. Now this would continue well, for the next 5060 years after prohibition, distillers didn't have a lot of liquid to play with because they had sold it all on the medicinal market during Prohibition or they didn't have The opportunity to distill again so there was not a lot of supply. So the distillers, what they would do is they would blend a little straight whiskey in with a grain neutral spirit the and blend was not good. The distillers could not wait to get away from the blended whiskey and start putting out their age doc. And as soon as they did that they started moving away from the word blend. And then the Canadians would actually try to come out with like a bottled and bond at that time. And that led to a little bit of a trade dispute between the United States and Canada. But that's another story maybe another above the char. But at that time between the 1940s and 1970s, the American distillers kind of banded together to eliminate the word blend from the American whiskey vocabulary, they replaced the word blend with mingling or marrying barrels together. So the actual action of bringing all these barrels together for a badging process, really should be called blending. But because the American distillers did not like that term, because it was associated with the rocket stuff of the 1930s and the piss poor whiskey of the 1800s that they decided to completely eradicate it from the distilleries. Now, we move forward to present day. And you have brands like high West and barrel bourbon, who don't actually have all the stocks at their disposal, but they're buying them from wholesalers and barrel brokers, and they take these barrels and they blend them with other barrels from other states and other distilleries creating unique flavor profiles, and they have absolutely turned the business upside down and made the term blending a positive term again, but here's why. They're not blending in green neutral spirit, what they are blending our straight whiskeys to these whiskies that are at least two years old, and they haven't been adding flavoring or coloring. So it's as pure as something that is bottled in bond. It's just coming from various distilleries. Now, given that American whiskey always has shenanigans. I know at some point during this wonderful trend, this resurrection of the term blend that we're seeing, we're going to have someone who takes advantage of it and start pumping out great neutral spirit coloring it and calling it an award winning blend. So be prepared for that next wave. As soon as someone in this business create something good. Someone comes around and ruins it. And that's this week's above the char. If you have an idea, reach out to me on Patreon, just like Andrew did. That's Patreon at bourbon pursuit. Until next week, cheers 8:51 Welcome back to another episode of bourbon pursuit the official podcast of bourbon, Kenny, Ryan and Fred all back here on bourbon community. Round Table number 38. We're back, fellas. How's it going? 9:03 Whoo. All right. Yeah. 9:05 Yeah, that's what we haven't done this in a while because the last time we did this was on stage at bourbon and beyond. So it's, it's been a few weeks, so it's good to see everybody once again. So Fred, how you been? You finally decompress since then? 9:17 I feel like I've done like 10 other events since bourbon and beyond. So it just went from one to another. I feel like Bill Belichick just I'm on to Cincinnati. 9:30 Cincinnati need some help. Actually. 9:32 They're awful, aren't they? Oh 9:34 my god. It's it's a terrible, terrible season. But again this year, I mean, it's at this point. I don't really think anybody's like really upset. They're just kind of like, it's fun to go pay for $12 beers and watch our team lose and we'll see it again next week. 9:48 Well, me it's a it's a hard day to be a Bengals fan. And if you're a San Francisco fan, holy cow. look good. 9:58 Yeah. So far. It seems like you paid the lot of tension in this so you big on fantasy. 10:03 Yeah, yes, I'm hard. 10:08 I'm not doing very well this year. 10:10 No, I'm I think I'm only won two games so I'm doing pretty terrible without you Ryan. 10:15 Well, I'm four and three, but I'm on a four game winning streak so and I'm looking at my score right now I'm down by two but I have James Conner playing right now. So go Steelers. 10:28 Well, one thing I'll tell you that I did this year Kenny with a friend of mine, Steve Zubin, who is a national radio personality, and Paul charging and who's a professional fantasy kind of Guru. We started league together like a small league we call it whiskey League and the entry bought the entry was a bottle of whiskey. And the every week somebody gets chopped, and at the end of the season, the what the winner will get. Every bottle of whiskey. I was out in week two So 11:02 least you weren't dead last. I mean, that's that would have been embarrassing. You know, week one. 11:08 Yeah, that's a tough one. Bad. Alright, so let's go ahead. We've only got two of the people here that you've all heard before. But you know, Blake Jordan, let's go ahead. Let's hear about your fantasy lineups as well. 11:21 The only fantasy lineup you need is you know, we're going to call it Minchew mania here in Jacksonville. You know, five time Rookie of the week. How many minute five time that could have been exaggeration, but uh, no, I don't play much fantasy football. It busy playing real football. You know, as a former NFL tied in I don't like to get out there and play fantasy leagues. No, it's just never want to get into but yeah, good time of year. And also I'm Blake from bourbon er. And thanks for joining us tonight. That's BOURBONR Find me on all the social medias if you haven't heard it 38 times by now. Now you got it. Time to spell it out. 12:03 That new listener out there if you haven't heard it, here it is this Sure Sure. All right, Jordan, go ahead. Sure. This is Jordan from breaking bourbon, one of the three guys friends breaking bourbon. Go to the site for the latest reviews and weekly calendar updates. Find us all the socials and patreon at breaking bourbon. My fantasy lineup is not doing so hot this year. So I think I'm three and four hopefully going to be for for after tonight. We'll see how the Juju does. 12:30 For sure. Alright, so let's go ahead we'll kick it off. Start with our topics. And you know, the first one is, it can't be that, you know, crazy to think about because bourbon really doesn't move a needle or something really doesn't happen without marketing involved. And we kind of look at the way that burden marketing is kind of progressed over the probably the past two to five years. I remember I think was a post that Wade had showed on Facebook just I think it was earlier this year. But I think it was not more than five years ago. There is on Buffalo Trace they used to have like the bourbon babe of the day or the bourbon babe of the month, and you could actually go and vote for women and like bikinis and stuff like that. No way. Yes. Very, very way. Like this is like, very, 13:17 like 2015. It wasn't like talking about 1991 or anything. 13:22 Exactly. So it's actually relatively recent in the whole. Absolutely. And so I guess the one thing that we want to kind of talk about here is like, what else are brands doing to try to navigate their future and kind of change perception of their brand? You know, Buffalo Trace, of course, they stopped doing that. They've got a lot of good stuff on Twitter and Instagram have just like one little one liners are out there. But one of the ones that's kind of really new and comes to my mind is the one that's with wild turkey and Matthew McConaughey. You know, he kind of comes on he talks about, Hey, I'm the creative director of wild turkey and I'm the co founder of Long Branch and he wants to showcase stories of people and The weird thing at least for me is that there's literally no tie or talk about whiskey and the entire thing and it's all about just elevating new people and new ideas and stuff like that and it's called talk Turkey. So I kind of want to push over to you guys like what do you all think? like is this a Is this a pretty like safe move like to be able to spend this much money to have this big a name on something and then not even promote the product, whatever except like, just on text on a YouTube video? 14:30 So I'd never seen it till tonight. Full disclosure, you sent the topics out so I watched it and I was like actually impressed I was like, born in kenya step your game up with like, editing and like, we need a leather bound couch and a cocktail God, may I put that 14:48 on? Yeah, the next the next. payout will make sure we put that in our budget. 14:54 Yeah, come on, keep contributing Patreon. We need we need that leather couch. Just kidding. But I don't know I enjoyed it. The funny thing is that I'm a sucker for inspiring stories like you get told me like a cool entrepreneur, like somebody that's kind of rose from the ashes. And that's what seems to be the theme of all three videos. I enjoy that. But the funny thing is, you see, they don't actually they make the drinks and they sit there the entire time. And I don't think they ever drink them or talk about them or anything. So it's it is kind of odd that it is so focused on that kind of entrepreneurial spirit and not much the whiskey like you would think they would talk about what's in the recipe they're drinking, or what are they doing? I don't know. There's just but but I kind of like it because you have to go to fringe audiences to bring new people in. I mean, if they were to sit around and we would enjoy it if they were sitting around talking about tasting notes or whatever, but we're already customers. So you got to look to the fringe to bring new people in. 15:51 So I think so it was interesting. I was working in the ad industry when they brought on Matthew McConaughey is the creative director right and it was a big deal because they literally made him the Highest Paid creative director in the entire advertising industry when that took place, right. I think that's what they were looking for though I think they were looking for something a little different. And that's why they gave him so much freedom in control and also so much money. I mean, if not, he's just like another celebrity. No offense to Mila Kunis. But if not, you just have like a celebrity walking through a, you know, a Rick house and pouring some bourbon. I think what it's doing is it's, it's people now know, right? Wild Turkey, even if it's just by association is going to be Matthew McConaughey. Just kind of like you see him on TV driving in a nameless SUV, you're probably like, that's a Lincoln commercial, right, just by association of who he is and what he does and the stories he tells. So I think it's a really interesting smart move by wild turkey trying to branch out and being more mainstream and hitting that more mainstream audience than just showing somebody pouring a bottle of whiskey in a distillery or something like that right at tunes in those those people who might not be hardcore bourbon drinkers who might be interested in maybe doing a cocktail or just want to listen to a good story. And before they know it, they're like, Oh, you know, next time I'll try wild turkey cocktail or something. I'll buy a bottle of wild turkey genius move in my part or genius move on their part. I think 17:05 I'll say that this is something that I've been personally involved with bourbon up and season two. There's a lot there's not really a lot of, you know, break down a bourbon discussion. You know, my first guest is the Golden Globe Award winning actor Jeffrey right. And this is kind of the evolution of of where we're going. We're bringing bourbon to the conversation, but it's not necessarily the conversation. And that's what bourbon and beyond is. That's what a lot of these efforts with celebrities is all about. And the fact is, is that we're never going to be able to break down the mash bill to the 35 year old woman shopping at Bed Bath and Beyond as much as I want to do that or try to happen. Exactly 17:52 right kitchen look like they could care less about there 17:57 but they want to drink it. They want To learn about it in a very, you know, minimal way. And if we if we get them to come to that next level, then the next thing you know it, they're watching this podcast, it comes down to that we have to capture the fringe consumer. And that's what all of this is about. So I absolutely applaud wild turkey for spending millions upon millions of dollars to get new people into bourbon. And if track kitchen if you're watching Hello, this is the first time you watch it. So that's, that's awesome. We'll take your food. 18:27 Yes, I think 18:29 it's just about casting a bigger net, you know, you know, you're not going to get everyone but obviously, the wider you cast the net, the more likely people are to get to this level of fandom and in interest in bourbon, so not everybody's going to want to know the mash bills and everything that but that doesn't mean that, you know, next time they're out of the out of bar, they may order a bourbon old fashion instead of you know, vodka soda or whatever, whatever they may be drinking. So I think that's the whole point. No, it was really well done. It was entertaining and you know even as somebody who watches a lot of bourbon stuff, I still watched it and enjoyed it. So 19:07 yeah, I just switched on the cocktail side they like said what the guy was making or what they were drinking or like because like I knew they're drinking old fashioned on the first one but the second or like, is that a bourbon Mojito? Or is that a bourbon? 19:18 What are they doing? 19:19 A little bit of? Yeah. of bourbon. relevant, not relevance. But 19:25 yeah. And yeah, just some, 19:26 like I said, I think that's the only thing where they really missed the ball on is that there is just really no tie into the whiskey in itself. Like I there's never any mention of it. It was just stories of people. I mean, it's it's kind of like one of those things if you think about it's like if somebody was to start, like, let's say that this bourbon podcast, like blew up and then we're like, oh, yeah, we're sponsored by ibuprofen, right? It's just like, there's, you know, we don't really like talk about it, but it's just like, it's just like a big sponsorship. So, and I guess I'll also kind of take a little bit of a devil's advocate role here. And if you think about it, if you are if you are a bourbon consumer, and you look Some of like the previous commercials that had come out on national TV of like Jimmy and Eddie like in the warehouse and, and talking about their product, you kind of feel like oh, like this is homey like this feels like, it feels like something relatable like I know these people. Like I don't relate to a big wave surfer, right. And so that's kind of where I think like, it's cool just to have extra content. And it's also just, in my opinion, it's just social media and YouTube is kind of what is targeted at so trying to figure out exactly like how do you scale this to reach a mass audience? I think is it's a little bit tough to figure out on their end. 20:36 I think we should do a retreat. I don't know if you watched the third one the yoga away or something. We should all take a retreat to one of those cabins in Australia. Every Community Roundtable turkey under addition, 20:48 live on. Yeah, can we get wild turkey to sponsor that i'll i'll be willing to travel with Matthew McConaughey. 20:53 We need to You're the one that gets all these sponsored trips. I don't know. 20:58 I gotta, 20:59 I gotta we gotta Go to the chat here, john Henderson saying that, you know, he's kind of jealous of Matthew McConaughey. I mean, he's kind of like, he's kind of done that, you know, he's kind of like that guy that all dudes kind of, you know want to be in some respects. 21:17 I just like to trying something new right? It's so different that hasn't been done before in bourbon specifically that you know, maybe it doesn't work maybe it does. Maybe it takes off and continues to be a thing for them. But at least they're trying something new first just doing the same old same old. Here's 21:31 kind of my thought on it, too is like why YouTube? So like I, I know, like this business a little bit. And they could have bought time on a network like FYI, or a&e. And I question as to whether or not that would have better traction for them. Then, then YouTube, that's probably my only criticism of the whole thing is the is the vehicle in which they chose 12 21:56 younger new consumers are on YouTube, they're not on you know, those big cable networks everybody's cutting the cord there. You look 22:02 at the statistics for Gen Z. It's ridiculous how much YouTube they consume verse TV and those it's above drinking age now, so they're going after the target. 22:11 There you go. Good market research. And so while we're still on the topic of talking Turkey will actually talk about one of the newest things that kind of hit the TTP that means that it is not officially released. There is no official release statement or anything like that, but I think it makes everybody a little bit happy to see that there's going to be a rare breed rye a barrel proof right out there. And you know, I think I know you know, Fred's kind of ruined Rare Breed for the rest of the nation already in the past few weeks or fuck sake. 22:44 Kind of like having a hard on from again. 22:49 In our blind tasting did I not hate McKenna and I did. And that bottle of wine blind tasting 22:55 awesome. 22:56 I mean, a single barrel should not be accepted into 23:01 Sure, the another 23:03 one on that, actually. So anyway, let's get back to the kind of rare breed rise. So kind of talk about what do you all think? I mean, I don't think anybody's not excited for this. 23:12 No, I mean, I mean fine one bourbon enthusiast who doesn't want a, you know, well, are they calling it barrel proof? I mean, that rare breed always gets me because I know barrel proof isn't technically Well, it's like 112 is 23:25 what the first label is, but it's 23:27 me whatever. You know, it's pretty crazy to think that coming off of the, you know, the Masters keep what was the Masters keeper I that they did was the name of, I guess, Cornerstone coming up for the cornerstone release that they follow back up, but I guess it makes sense because that one got a lot of, you know, a lot of fanfare, a lot of attraction. So to release this, you know, I feel like that's going to be one of those mainstays on everyone's best value list. You know, whiskeys you should be drinking right now. all that kind of good stuff. So I think it's It's great. I mean, I, I'd love to have more high profile turkey right on the market. 24:05 You know, Eddie first told me about his plans to do like a rare breed right about two years ago. And I think he's been trying to, like break this through, you know, compound a for several years. So I feel like this is one. This is a great win for Eddie Russell. It's going to be an everyday product that's on the market. You know, it'll be distributed nationally. I mean, this is a very, very exciting day for for whiskey geeks because I do think you'll be able to find this. 24:35 Well, Eddie son, Bruce, he's like a huge rap fan. Like that's like, he says he's been pushing rap for them for a while. And but Jimmy hates raw, right? Like, her dad 24:45 just doesn't like it. He Well, he they he comes from that old mold of like, you know, you know, Pennsylvania was was right country and Maryland. And in Ryan was for blending is coming from that region. So He's very much a bourbon man. 25:02 Well, I mean, I, like I said, I think everybody's kind of excited for having some wild turkey barrel proof expressions that are out there. And I think Blake really kind of said it here is that if you can put this into the value category, many people are going to be, you know, kind of driving towards it. I mean, it's it hopefully just doesn't go the way of values of like Elmer TV and well, or 12 and stuff like that. Which it certainly could be if it comes out in a smaller release cycle or something like that. But to this day, we haven't seen anything from Rare Breed not making its way on the shelves until about a month ago. 25:36 It'll be interesting because, you know, you'll, you can find wild turkey and other variants. Left and Right, but sometimes it's hard to find the right especially especially on the shelf, at least, you know, traveling around looking for it. So hopefully it's a little more accessible. But I think like anything else, not like anything else, but I think like everyone else rise become really hot. Right? You just saw heaven hill with Elijah Craig ride coming out. I think you've been noticing that over the years so I think it's a great thing or a revival. And just more options for folks and I'm super excited for it is going to be super tasty. 26:09 And you know, it's it's actually a category that has a broad reaching flavors. I mean, there's a lot of people who don't like dad's hat right out of Pennsylvania. 26:20 God 26:23 let me tell you this cork in this Rubble, yo, Jordan, 26:30 can you get any closer to the microphone? Sorry, guys, Jordan had 26:38 where was I? Oh, broad region. There's a lot of different flavor variants when it comes to rhyme, you know, because it the grain comes through even after the barrel so the higher they go, the more flavor that comes out, you know, from that particular grain and the distillation technique, I think can sway the flavor of rice so much more than bourbon and plus is very hard to ferment. So when you ferment right foams up, and there's a lot of people who will add enzymes to it and enzymes will have a big impact on the flavor. So that's why you can taste some like, you know, morality or some Flintstone vitamins because they're pounding it with, with enzymes. So I think we have an incredible next 20 years of new rye whiskeys coming out. And I just I can't wait to taste them all. 27:25 I'm glad you said that about the rye how it kind of bubbles up. I remember Ryan, I don't know if you were there. But we were in new riff. And we were doing a tour and they were doing a batch of rye. And I mean, it was just overflowing just like pouring out of the fermented tank. And they're just sitting there the hose just spraying it for hours because I mean, it just kept on just bubbling out. And in Jordan, I like how you brought up the Elijah Craig Bry. Now, this only leads to one thing one inevitable thing that's going to happen is that they're gonna they're gonna have to come out with Elijah Craig barrel proof, right? 27:57 Yeah, for sure. And I think that's probably the first thought everyone had when we all read that press release number and solve it is it's not a matter of if it's a matter of one. Right? So. And that's, I mean, I think Elijah Craig Ryan's gonna be hard to get only by the fact that it's starting off in four states, but I'm sure people go gangbusters once they do a barrel proof version of it, right? I'm sure we'll see it. We might see it as much released before we see it full time, but we'll probably see it for sure. 28:26 Yeah, and at $30 I don't think anybody's going to be worried about coughing up that kind of money. But I guess one other thing that will kind of bring up and Blake I'll let you kind of talk about this one. So actually only being available in four states as it starts going out. What do you What's your kind of thought on it? Because I know that there's always a lot of angry people around us that don't get their hands on and they're like, wait, it's in our backyard. Like how can you shame Kentucky like this? 28:51 Yeah, I think that just goes back to the original thing we're talking about with like the Matthew McConaughey videos of you know, they have their market strategies. They have this places they want to hit, they want to come in with something new to try to get that product placement. So it's it's a business strategy. You know, I think it's kind of a continued thing where we see as Fred likes to say, not dancing with the people that brought you but that's that's a part of it overall, you know, I think any of us that are not in one of those states who want a bottle will still find a way to get a bottle. They know the enthusiasts are going to get their bottles, but you know, for the that that borderline whiskey drinker, they want to, you know, try to bring them in with something new and exciting. So it's brand extension and I mean, yes, I don't think it is fair to the guys who've been consistent consistently drinking their stuff supporting them. But at the end of the day, I understand the move. It's it's kind of like that's probably the smart thing in in overall healthier distilleries. 29:55 I will say that it's right now what we are seeing is we are selling Seeing a dynamic diversity in business strategy amongst all these distillers and somehow Kentucky is kind of like the centerpiece, it's it seems to me like those who focus on Kentucky don't focus on something like San Francisco and those who folk, you know, focused on San Francisco, you know, look at like Kentucky is kind of like a third tier market. It's really it really is fascinating from a business perspective. So anyone who's out there who, who like studies like business strategies, you know, long term effects, I would love to see people's opinion on this about what the long term consequences are of like, you know, not focusing on the market that is traditionally so core to a category 30:48 so i think you know, and just from a high level standpoint to right everyone always associates bourbon was Kentucky, right? Oh, it's Kentucky bourbon bourbon comes from Kentucky, etc. And really is the push bourbon has become just more mainstream over the years. I think this is a move to show and make people realize Bourbons and American spirit right? Bourbons for America. bourbon, just not for Kentucky. Right? Wrong or indifferent. Right? By focusing outside of Kentucky. It's kind of a symbol of, yeah, this is this is for everyone. You know, hopefully that releases in Kentucky to eventually. But right now, that's what it's showing. It's just not a Kentucky thing. It's doesn't matter where you are. There's always markets out there and Bourbons for America, just not for Kentucky fans. America Merica. 31:32 And so I guess another question when I keep thinking about this, and I'm like, my gosh, every single year there's press releases. And I'd say there's probably like at least five as a good handful of just like big brand extensions that come out every single year and like how much longer can we can we keep going on like this? I mean, the only people that I know that the lava rye whiskey is four roses like other than that, like is there anything else that the big guys can possibly do to keep making brand extensions or we've got to hit it 32:04 we got to hit a plateau at some point blends at straits blends of bourbon and rum like for for two disunion 32:13 malts. 32:14 Now, can we get a whiskey finishing and mead barrels? Maybe but you 32:22 gotta think about it from from like a hardcore consumer perspective sure I mean it makes sense to kind of like maybe test the waters and put some of those out there but from a from something that's like a viable sort of thing like I don't ever imagine seeing heaven Hill coming out like we've got this new brand extension called heaven Hill. I don't know what mixed ninja ninja Blender mix right you know whatever it's going to be and they do a bourbon and whiskey and a rum in it and they think like oh yeah, like people gonna go crazy. Oh, well, they did come out with hypnotic 32:53 Kenny. True. 32:58 So I mean that one 32:59 yeah. I mean, that's, I don't know, the thing is we think that they are thinking about us which like in your in the chat, you said we are the 1%. And they could care less, you know, they're just trying to they're just trying to like, you know, just like you said, find those niches and keep extending the brands. I mean, they could care less about what we think about it. 33:21 I disagree with that with me. We we had that topic a couple weeks ago are like do barbican's or do the distilleries care about the bourbon consumer. I just think they're trying to find untapped you know, avenues and the one thing they're doing is a vault in this you gotta remember they're pulling back on flavored whiskey you're seeing some companies like jack is really doubling down but you don't see a lot of these distilleries you know, push forward flavor whiskey. 10 years ago, flavored whiskey was all the rage, it was all the rage, and now it's, it's hardly even talked about, 33:56 far less red stags and many Bourbons and All that on the market now that's for sure. 34:02 Well, I mean they're still there. They just don't talk about them or advertise them or do anything I just 34:06 drink whenever I'm partying with Kid Rock and you know the bands. 34:11 It's always good to have backstage patches with Blake. 34:15 The thing is, as you actually don't need them, you just walk back and go where you're going. 34:20 You don't need the past just yeah, look, I'm sorry. No, I got the black band. I'm good. Let me Sorry, it's only Blue Man, sir. Alright, so let's kind of move on to the next topic here. And I guess it kind of flows in with it because you know, we we talked about on bourbon kind of being undervalued on this podcast all the time. And so this next topic was actually really kind of spawned from Campbeltown and a recent Facebook post where he wrote to us, he said, Fred, I'm glad you reraise the topic that I commented back on from Episode 222. And in my opinion, bourbon is not in has never been undervalued, underrated at time, sure, but not undervalued. I never use a comparison of bourbon to scotch as grounds to argue because Gas prices are just out of control full stop. Now if bourbon producers are making healthy profits and their employees are happy than the various suggested retail prices are fine right where they are, or used to be in some cases, so if influential folks like you Jen's continued to say bourbon is undervalued, then the producers will continue to respond accordingly. Hell they already have the inevitable result we consumers are going to pay the price literally. So first part of that is a yay or nay. Whoever wants to take it who thinks here bourbon has been under are overvalued in its category and why? 35:35 I'll go first. 35:38 The People's champion the people's channel, 35:41 so I will say certain brand extensions are undervalued, such as like the antique well a retail value like the antique collection, you know, limited releases, yes, like hyper age stuff is undervalued compared to scotch, but your everyday brands like they are valued credit. Lee or a barrel of bourbon calls 400 frickin dollars to make, and that even less for like the big boys. And so when you get 200 plus bottles out of it at a four to six year, seven year range, I mean, and you're selling it for 30 $40 apiece, you know, they're making plenty of money. So I don't want to hear about it's undervalued, it's yes, some of the higher age limited really stuff is undervalued. But your everyday brands, like we talked about with heaven Hill ball and bond, it's priced right or I think it's overpriced now, but that's just me. 36:35 No, I agree with that. Ryan and I think you know, so limited releases aside, right, which what will take out of it? Because I think no matter what industry and eliminate release is going to hold more value no matter where you are. Right? We I think we're also skewed in our thought perception of how much bourbon should cost what we're willing to spend on a bottle but you have to realize especially I don't know about you guys, but you're talking to somebody outside of the bourbon industry, right who's not a super enthusiast and you start talking about bottle price. And they start looking at you like you have four heads and you're like, Oh, yeah, 30 $40 that's, you know, that's really a great value for a bottle of bourbon that's really cheap. And to them, that's a lot of money for to spend on alcohol. Right? That's not what the normal consumer does. It's just they play down. So for a lot of brands out there, yeah, you know, there might be some that are good values, right for good value to the flavor ratio, but there's some that are that are probably overpriced, like Ryan touched on to, I think you need to you know, I think we look at stuff through through rose colored glasses a lot, and putting us in just the average average Middle America consumer shoes, and looking at the prices on the shelves when you're going out. Yeah, it's probably just right where the value should be. Right. I don't think it's undervalued for a lot of stuff. If anything, some of the new ones are touching on the line of being overpriced. Yeah, I 37:46 think it here we kind of got to define the what what do we mean by under an overvalued the way I look at it is, you know, kind of, to go back to economics classes of price elasticity of you know, how How much people are will the demand still be there based on the increase in price? from that aspect? Yeah, because they keep raising prices and the demand still there. So of course, they're going to keep raising prices. You know, I'm sure they every distillery listens to this podcast and takes their cues from us on how they should price it. But at the end of the day, what they're looking at, is it are people still buying it off the shelf for you know, are the orders still coming in? No matter when we raise the prices? If we come out with a new release? Is that still flying off the shelves? That's all they're really looking at. So, you know, under overvalued is is kind of irrelevant from the in their minds of just will the demand stay the same if we increase the prices, whether that's $1 whether that's $10 and what it's proved, you know, been proven over the last few years is bourbon consumers are willing to spend a lot more on good bourbon. That's not great for bourbon consumers because now we have to spend a lot more on good bourbon But there's still a lot. And I shouldn't say good bourbon, I should say, you know, these different releases. Because I think we all know there's plenty of good bourbon out there. But yeah, it's, you know, whether it's under over that's kind of irrelevant. I mean, we've all seen the $20 bottles that can win blind tastings. And we've all had thousand dollar bottles 39:20 that tasted terrible. So, yeah, I think when you compare bourbon to other spirits, or you know, like wine or beer, other things, like I think it's a great value even at higher prices, like, because with wine, you could spend 10 so even on an hour, you know, 10 $20 for an average bottle, you're only getting four drinks out of that, whereas you spend 2030, your, you know, on a bottle of bourbon, like, depending on how 39:47 how healthy your pores are, 39:49 say 20, you know, drinks out of that. So with that, you know, in mind it maybe, 39:54 you know, it's a good value compared to let me let me just say we're not we're not actually Talking about the bourbon. We are talking about paying for the marketing. So the higher you go up in price and spirits, you are paying for marketing. That's why the heaven Hill bottled in Bond was so important to us is that that six year old bourbon had zero marketing behind it. And now you see when it's released, you see what marketing costs and what the development of a brand is. Marketing is everything in the spirits business, it's 75% of the cost of outside of the taxes is marketing. And when you take a look at vodka, you can look at the sign right behind me there what I think about vodka. Vodka is 100% marketing. It's coming off the still the re distilling it. I mean, they're putting it in the bottle, you know, maybe there's $2 and cost for the liquid, maybe $5. Let's say they're just selling at 100 times and it's all about the packaging. It's all about the marketing they put behind it the celebrity so every layer that you add to includes You, you're paying more for that. So if we didn't have marketing, and we were going back to a time when you were just going and brokering based off of the flavor profile and what an essay or said on how good the bourbon was, then you know, we would be having a very different conversation. Now, I am really glad that the original comments are on that said, Don't compare scotch to bourbon. I'm even guilty of this. But we should not be comparing bourbon to scotch. What we should be doing is just analyzing bourbon. We don't need to compare it to scotch scotch is a different beast. They've got bottles selling for $1.6 million. And they like to kind of flop that around everybody, but then they still have monkey shoulder. So I really do think we have to take a step back for a second. And just look at this for what it is, is that the higher we go up in price, the more marketing we're paying for it and the higher we go up Price, the better the liquid the distillers put into the bottle. So it's going to keep happening. There's nothing that we can really do about it. But I would say that if you find a value brand that you really like, support it. 42:16 Fred, do we need that million dollar bottle for bourbon to kind of push that envelope? As the saying goes, Portland is weird. Perhaps it's something in the water. It turns out that there might be some truth to that. The Oregon capitals primary water source is supplied by the bowl run watershed. It's also the key ingredient in one of the city's most popular watering holes, Bull Run distillery, the boulder and watershed is a very unique water source. It's protected by an act of Congress back in the 1870s. And the city's fathers got their hands on a beautiful lake up in the Cascade Mountains. And it's been that way since the 1870s. It used to flow through wooden pipes by gravity to Portland. It's that water that gives Voltron distilleries products. Its distinct character 43:00 bottles are being featured in rackhouse whiskey clubs. Next box. rackhouse was club. It's a whiskey the Month Club, and they're on a mission to uncover the best flavors and stories that craft distilleries across the US have to offer. Rock house ships out to their featured distilleries finest bottles, along with some cool merchandise in a box delivered to your door. every two months. Go to rock house whiskey club calm and check it out and try some Bull Run for yourself. Use code pursuit for $25 off your first box. 43:28 To 91 Colorado whiskey aims to create a one of a kind bold and beautiful Colorado whiskey, rugged, refined, rebellious owner and founding distiller Michael Myers built the original still from copper photocopier plates, which you use to create enduring photographic scenes from Western landscapes to the Chrysler Building. On September 11 2011 10 years after 911 changed his life and the lives of so many others. He pulled the first whiskey off that's still building a future in whiskey office passion for photography. What defines to 91? Colorado whiskey is it spirit passion permeates every sip. Find a bottle near you at 291 Colorado whiskey calm, right like you stole it. Drink it like you own it. Live fast and drink responsibly. Fred, do we need that million dollar bottle for bourbon to kind of push that envelope? 44:26 I don't know if if we will see the million dollar bottle of bourbon in my lifetime. I think it will happen. We were you know, you know Pappy is sold for $15,000 at auction. You know, I there is a bottle that went for $100,000 once it was the Parkers unity bottle, but that was for a special cause and had everyone's you know, whiskey poured into it. So, you know, it would have to be the right bottle and have to be the right option. And the problem with bourbon is is that The new charred oak keeps it from really reaching the level that the Chinese and the other billionaires in the world are comparing it to scotch. Even us even we are comparing bourbon discussion a continual basis and so just imagine what the people with money in the private jets are doing. You know, so they're they're looking at they're looking at bourbon and thinking that $15,000 for a Pappy Van Winkle at auction is is a value you know, we're not thinking that but you know that's that's what it comes down to is the people with money will always look for what is scarce what is rare, and what no one else in the world can get. 45:47 We do have the thousand dollar Mint Julep by God. 45:53 And it still tastes like ass. 45:56 I think we got kind of like One more. One more question. Kind of kind of tailor on the thread that I'll let you go Jordan, because I don't know if I still got your answer there. If If you think bourbon is at a level playing field or if Do you think it's actually undervalued or overvalued? 46:11 Do I think bourbon is undervalued? I got you, 46:15 I get you to tiptoe around it now. Now, the hard questions. 46:18 No, no, I don't think it's undervalued. I think it's right where it probably should be. I think if you're in the business of bourbon and you own a brand, or a distillery, then yeah, you think it's undervalued and you want to you want to make more money off of it but from my perspective, as a consumer because I do buy the majority of the bourbon I have I do get media samples but I spent a lot of money on bourbon and I will tell you that I won't spin secondary prices on a lot of bottles to include, you know the Pappy Van Winkle of the world. I what I will spend crazy money on It's something that was made prior to 1962. So I don't think bourbon is undervalued. I think we're we're on the verge of you know jumping up too much and pricing. When you see the Buffalo Trace antique collection, and a lot of these other really like the four roses to me the four roses limited edition small batch is my gauge for limited edition Bourbons because that their releases year in and year out have been so good. And I would put any release of the four roses limit edition small batch up against any any other distilleries whiskey to me, so that is that's the bourbon I always look to when it goes up to $1,000 and we've got a problem mixers, 47:51 we got a ways to go then. 47:52 Then we do it. We do have a ways to go mixers. They went ahead and Look at looked at the secondary market and saw what people are doing there. And they price their their celebration, which is fantastic. It's great whiskey, they price it at $5,000 XRP. And so you will see that sitting around so i think i think there is a limit right now for what people are willing to spend at least publicly and for American whiskey, but I don't I don't think it's undervalued. I think it's about right on the verge of going to Hi, Jordan, what were you going to know I 48:36 was going to say going back really quick to not the million dollar bottle of bourbon but more towards you know, don't get me wrong American distillers if they can and they can push into that higher price range they will and you notice them pulling a page out of the scotch playbook to write double Eagle rare sure it's a value. a one off special bourbon, but it's also a super expensive glass bottle right the Woodford bankrupt battle being sold and customs or duty free shops. Only Right, bourbon is going to keep trying to do that. And you have to remember a lot of really expensive scotch, what you're paying for is a really legit crystal to cancer that that in and of itself is a ton of money. Right? So if they can tap that market Don't get me wrong distillers will if they find the trick, they will start doing that. And they will readily do that too, because no one wants to leave money on the table. 49:17 And so there's there's kind of like one one of the things that was kind of on the trail end of this quote was influential folks, like you continue to say that bourbon is undervalued and the producers will continue to respond accordingly. So Blake, we're all looking at you. What do you think? 49:34 It says influencer. 49:37 mean, do you think do you think we're the problem? Sometimes when we say stuff like this? 49:41 No, no, because I mean, there's a whole culture around bourbon that's that's pushing it forward and all these different releases and you see, some get hot and spike and then others that kind of fall off but I think that's just a part of it. You know, that's part of the bourbon culture and kind of what was a big part of the Facebook groups. So maybe we won't see that anymore. But yeah, that's, you know, it's just obviously nobody wants to pay more for these products. But at the same time, it's kind of like, you know, going back to the trading cards if something gets hot, and everyone all of a sudden wants it. And that's just what happens when there's more demand. So, absolutely. 50:22 So let's go ahead and kind of move on to the next subject. You know, as we start talking about value and everything like that, we got to look at just the greater market of what's happening here with inside of just American whiskey and there is a new report coming out from research and markets. com. That is saying that the overall whiskey market is expected to grow at a compound annual growth rate of 9.9% from 2019 to reach 16.8 billion by 2025. And this focuses on bourbon, Tennessee and rye whiskey. So the growth of this particular market and American whiskey is mainly attributed to the grown to For premium American whiskeys and a rising number of super premium and ultra premium brands, rapid urbanization across the globe and fast growing cocktail market. So Fred, you know, you're the one that kind of wanted to talk about this a little bit, because I think that you want to stress a point about, like how important this research is to really expanding just American whiskey in general. So go ahead and talk kind of talk about it. 51:23 So I've been I've been a journalist in some capacity since basically 1994. And research and reports is one of those. One of those are not research report. Research and markets is one of those kind of like destinations, for journalists where they get data. And it's also where people like hedge fund managers, multi billionaires, all those types of people get reports and they spent they will seriously spend up to $5,000 for you know, particular research data before they put, you know a million or two in an industry, whether it's stock or it's actually on mainstream. And so for the fact that this came from that particular portal tells me that American whiskey is getting eyeballed at a very high rate from people with money. And when you have more investments coming into it, that means we're going to start seeing more now I do know, quite a few billionaires who are entering the market, there are more celebrities coming on board, they're more musicians. Everyone is looking to get into either bourbon, or tequila, tequila as it is it is another spirit that's kind of on that same trajectory as American whiskey. So the fact that it's coming from there tells me that this is such a this is so big from a future like investment perspective and tells me that that bubble is very very far from from bursting, especially if you follow those who basically write checks for a living. Yeah, very good. Look at reports you just drive down Bardstown road, and every frickin few months heaven Hill puts up another 50,000 barrel warehouse. There's like 10 of them now, like two years ago, there was one and now there's like 10 Well, we've known that right. But I mean, the people on Wall Street, this is still just kind of been a little bit of a fancy on the side now in their eyes. American whiskey has proven themselves worthy of their investment and their money. And I, you know, and I also don't know if it's too late for someone to enter the game at a at a high level from a distillery perspective, but I gotta look at this from from a business aspect and it looks very positive and it goes back to that is it under valued? Well, I don't know if I think this more the more distilleries you get in there, I think it will actually keep it in that non undervalued category 54:10 for it. I got a question for you. So, a lot of distillers I talked to they say that we're still like 30%, where we're only like 60 to 70% of the stocks that we had in the 60s are, you know, in the 50s, or 60s? That's correct. That's correct. And, obviously, they keep saying, you know, the population is grown. You know, there's more people in the world. So bourbon still got this much more room to grow. But there's still a lot of competition, you know, like you said, from tequila from wines from beers from cannabis and stuff. So, so, so is that true for? 54:44 Yeah, we're still we're still a ways off from where we used to be. I mean, we're just now kind of getting to the numbers that where we were at some point the 70s but you go into like 58 to 1966 and there was far more bourbon that was being put But also you have to remember that there was not a lot of scotch in the market and so the scotch that was in the market was like was blends like you didn't see like a growth of single malt until the 1960s. So everybody was buying, you know, the people who had the money back then were buying bonded bourbon bottled in bond. But what happened was vodka comes on the scene, and this really is why I hate vodka, everybody, because vodka comes on the scene and starts pushing, you know, bourbon over here with kind of the new crowd. And the bourbon distillers tried to react to that. And what what did they do? They lowered their proofs instead of focusing on quality. They tried to like lower their quality to compete with vodka and orange juice. So it was a big mistake of theirs. And the scotch whiskey distillers seize the moment so did cognac. And so you started seeing all of this single malt and a lot more brandies kind of come on the market and take away that market share. That bourbon has So that is, that's a little bit as to why bourbon started to fall. But at the same time, bourbon right now is on the verge of coming back. But you have to have more investment in here, you probably need, you probably need about two or three more juggernaut distillers to really get back to where we were. I mean, huge said about this report coming out. I mean, I'm looking at the website right now. So to get your hands on this particular copy that talks about this, this forecast of 2025, it's going to cost you around 30 $500, if not more to actually get your hands on it, right. Like that's a that's a pretty substantial amount of money to pay for something like this. So I think there definitely is some validity to what you're saying in regards of the types of people that are reading this are the ones that have that type of money to burn that are investing into distilleries are investing in startups or, you know, buying out other companies or anything like that. So there's definitely something to kind of see about how big this market is growing is just from an investor standpoint. 56:59 Yeah. I mean, we've had investors on the show before, right? I mean, we talked about building Rick houses and all that sort of stuff too. So there's there's definitely room here for more things to come in from other markets and other people, for new entrants into it. It's just not going to be the big boys and the large companies that might be having this kind of stuff forever. But you know, Blake, you're, you're kind of in the financial side. I mean, like, when you when you look at this sort of stuff, is there anything that kind of like, raise your head that might think it might be a little weird or kind of off or anything like that? Well, no, I mean, I 57:30 think just, you know, kind of to Fred's point of more juggernaut juggernauts coming into the playing field is you see people like Bardstown bourbon company, wilderness trail others and on with some serious capacity to make bourbon and you know, that's got to go somewhere. They're not all contract distilling, even though a lot of them are but there's a lot more bourbon being made, you know, Jordan and I took a tour of wilderness trail and I believe I'll find my notes, but it was something like 230 barrels a day. I was there, too. Yeah. 58:01 3252 30 to 50 left 58:04 Ryan in the I was hobbling 58:07 too slow on that on one leg but yeah, so it was like 232 to 50 barrels a day. So there's a lot you know, it just, there's you don't make those kind of decisions on blind faith, I would assume you know so I assume there's market research and all that kind of stuff going into this to say hey look Wait, this is where the industry is go growing and you know, as I think it was in the show notes earlier millennials or whatever generation we are buying more because we're like sitting home drinking with our kids all night. 58:39 I got a question for everyone. So there's a lot of investor people may or may not know this, you can be an investor, say like Bardstown bourbon company or wellness try you can buy like a lot of bourbon, because there's a role in Kentucky it as they age a year and a day. And so a lot of investors go and buy a 600,000 barrels at a time but at age for you Here in a day pay X amount after it ages a year a day, it's immediately double work double, because it's called Kentucky bourbon. Now, do you think if that rule wasn't in place people would even be interested in investing in that? Well, I mean, that's is that an open 59:13 question? Well, 59:16 you know, because it really becomes a securities market at that point. And you know, if you have the money you have the right connections, why would you not do something if you can double your money on something after a year day that that's 59:32 that would have to be a whole rule change of the way I look at it? I'm like, I'm like sure. It makes sense. Like if I was to just be in the contract bourbon business, I definitely do that if they change it to say like, as soon as it's still here and put the barrel here you go Kentucky bourbon and shipped wherever you want to go like that. That's like, full stop, like next day, like I'm putting all my money to do something like that. Now, if they said like, oh, it has to be aged there for the entire time and still it's bottled, then it gets a little bit different. So I think there is that rule. kind of gives a little bit of flexibility and what you want to do but, you know, a year, isn't that long to wait on an investment sometimes. 1:00:07 I don't know. That's, I think that's an interesting question, Ryan. One that a cynical person might ask. And I go when it comes to bourbon brands and money and investors, yeah, it's true. That And that, my friend is why you're the people's champion. And I you know, I know a lot of the people who have done something like that, and after that year has happened, they've doubled down or they've increased You know, there's something about that law it has actually lowered a lot of people in and kept a lot of people away from Indiana. And Tennessee. One of the things that no one really wants to talk about, is MTP is kind of emerging. You know, they they've really hurt themselves in Kentucky. Kind of rallied rallied around and blockchains them out while Tennessee comes on board and starts plucking people off to on the source whiskey market. So in MTP is though is the one distiller. When we look at the big distilleries right now, that's really kind of hurting from a, from a futuristic perspective, because other than those old stocks, no one's really calling them. 1:01:22 And I think that's partly because you have so many more distilleries coming online in Kentucky it's like hey, if you're buying younger stock, what would you rather it say on the bottle? You know, Kentucky straight bourbon, or India or Indiana? That's, you know, I wonder if maybe that TTP rule change what would a change something about that? 1:01:45 For sure. Alright, so we're getting we're running towards the top of the hour here and I kind of want to finish with with one last one one because it's still timely. We had talked about it at least I talked about in the opening of one of the podcasts here recently, and that's travel leisure they came out kind of broke the article, but now more media outlets are picking it. up, and that is that you can rent Jim beam's historic Kentucky home on Airbnb. Now this was right on the Jim Beam property. And you can still book stays for the rest of 2019. Or it might have been sold out by now and start looking for 2020. But each day is priced at a mere $23 a night, which marks the same price as a bottle of Jim Beam black bourbon, the only catches that used to be everyone in the house has to be 21 years or older. So is this fun? Or is this a bad decision? Because this the way I look at it is that when people ask Ryan and I about Hey, where do we stay? We're going to the bourbon trail and I'm like Louisville, you come to level and then they're like what we're saying in Bardstown I go, I'm gonna put cc on Ryan Ryan, go ahead and spit out your three or four places, right? Because you know, in mobile, you've got in mobile, you got you got Airb

Welcome to Bourbon Heritage Month where it’s full of awesome festivals like Bourbon and Beyond. We dive into the show talking about Pernod's intent to acquire Castle Brands which Jefferson’s is a major portfolio player and if $223 million was a good deal. We comment on PBR's newest whiskey which is aged for a grand total of 5 seconds. Next is looking at the artificial tongue and what this could mean to the future of the industry. We wrap it up examining EU tariffs and it’s impact 1 year later on the whiskey market. Show Partners: The University of Louisville now has an online Distilled Spirits Business Certificate that focuses on the business side of the spirits industry. Learn more at uofl.me/pursuespirits. Barrell Craft Spirits has a national single barrel program. Ask your local retailer or bourbon club about selecting your own private barrel. Find out more at BarrellBourbon.com. The 2019 Kentucky’s Edge Bourbon Conference & Festival pairs all things Kentucky with bourbon. It takes place October 4th & 5th at venues throughout Covington and Newport, Kentucky. Find out more at KentuckysEdge.com. Central Kentucky Tours offers public and private bourbon tours for groups from 2 to 55. Learn more at CentralKentuckyTours.com. Receive $25 off your first order at RackHouse Whiskey Club with code "Pursuit". Visit RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. Show Notes: This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick takes a look back at the Legend Series. Let's discuss Bourbon and Beyond. Pernod buys Castle Brands for $223 million. https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20190828005771/en/Pernod-Ricard-Acquire-Castle-Brands-223-Million Do you think more smaller brands are going to get bought out? Is Pernod trying to get back to bourbon? Was this a good buy for Pernod? What do you think about PBR making whiskey? https://www.jsonline.com/story/entertainment/beer/2019/08/22/pabst-blue-ribbon-now-making-whiskey-collaboration-new-holland/2086883001/ Have you all seen Screwball Peanut Butter Whiskey? What are your thoughts on the artificial tongue? https://www.geek.com/tech/artificial-tongue-can-taste-subtle-differences-in-whiskey-1798999/ More secondary markets are gone. What are your thoughts? Who do you think is behind the shut downs? Tariffs continue to hammer down on bourbon. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-whiskey/us-whiskey-exporters-struggle-after-year-of-eu-tariffs-idUSKCN1V80DN What do you think is next for tariffs? What impact do tariffs have on the bourbon industry? Thanks to Nick from breakingbourbon.com, Brian from sippncorn.com, and Blake from bourbonr.com for joining. 0:00 I love bourbon, but I'm not ready to restart my career in be a distiller. I have a bachelor's degree and I want to continue to use those skills in the whiskey industry. So check this out. The University of Louisville now has an online distilled spirits business certificate that focuses on the business side of the spirits industry like finance, marketing and operations. This is perfect for anyone looking for more professional development. And if you ever want to get your MBA, their certificate credits transfer into Ul's new online MBA program. Learn more about this online program at business.louisville.ecu slash online spirits 0:38 so I'm just waiting for the movie where artificial tongues go rogue and one of them decides is going to go and replace everybody's whiskey with like rapid each whiskey because it's got the perfect profile and there's just insanity and chaos. You know 1:08 This is Episode 217 of bourbon pursuit. I'm one of your host Kenny. And as usual, a little bit of news to go through. So larceny from heaven Hill has launched a new app. It's an augmented reality app called unlock the Rick house. The app was inspired by the history of john II Fitzgerald. He was a treasury agent back in the late 1800s and early 1900s, and was one of the only people that was legally allowed to carry the keys to the barrel storage Rick houses with a discerning palate for fine bourbon john Fitzgerald often uses Rick house keys to gain access to some of the finest bourbon barrels for himself. And those barrels from which he chose to help himself were often referred to as the Fitzgerald barrels around the distillery. The infamous active larceny led to the larceny brand and has now inspired the newest augmented reality app. So Once downloaded, you can explore the Rick houses by tapping on each one to search for the prize winning 2:00 Fitzgerald barrel, and from September 1 through December 31. Each tap of the Rick house gains one entry into the grand prize of $10,000. Daily prizes will also be awarded and include everything from a mini barrel shot glass and larceny magnets all the way up until a larceny guitar or an LED sign. So you can get unlock the Rick house available now on the Apple Store and Google Play. On Tuesday this week, I had the pleasure of joining four roses master distiller Brett Elliot, to a special media preview of the 2019 limited edition small batch, were able to ask him anything in taste through all the individual lots that comprised of this batch. And here's some of the details. The 2019 limited edition small batch will have a breakdown of four different bourbon runs. There is an 11 year old ESV that accounts for 26 27% of the blend. A 15 year old GSB at 40% of them blend a 15 year old ESK with 25% and a 2:59 21 year old BSB at 8% on the blind, and we got to go through each one of these and kind of rate them all and kind of figure out how they all lead into creating their own blend and the 21 year OBSV had the best knows it was super okie but the finish lacks some depth. And there was I know there's a lot of OESK lovers out there, but this one had a pretty strong bite to it honestly wasn't my favorite. However, the 15 year OESV was the real star of the show. This had depth and complexity and just kept going at all the right components into it. But come to find out. This is the same version of OESV that was sold at the gift shop this past year for Father's Day. So there's a few lucky people out there sitting on some really good bourbon right now. And the final proof of this will be 112.6 with around 13,440 bottles to be released in the US in around 3002 the rest of the world with an MSRP of $139 and 99 cents. 4:00 During this time with Brent, we also discussed the barrels and if we would ever see a single barrel limited edition ever again. Well, the unfortunate news is that he said it's likely to never happen again. With the explosive growth of bourbon, it's almost impossible to find a run of barrels that were all distilled at one time that would be able to satisfy this type of demand. Instead, these runs will be saved for future small batches for years to come. He said they have plenty of high AH stock. So this is great to hear for enthusiasts like us. And hope you're out there enjoying these whiskey quickies that we're releasing. As we get into the fall we're going to be bringing new reviews of all the newest releases including next week's as we review the new four roses small batch Limited Edition. All right now on to the podcast. On this Roundtable. We talk about bourbon festival season as we just wrapped up one, but we're heading into bourbon and beyond right around the corner. And if you haven't yet, go get your tickets. We'd love to see you there. Drink some good bourbon and listen to some good tunes. But after that, we dive into 5:00 To the acquisition business was the 230 $3 million deal for Pernod Ricard to acquire castle brands which Jeffers is a part of. Was that a good deal? Well, we had a lot of folks that were commenting in our chat section and talking about the EPA or the earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization. It's a measure of a company's operating performance. One comment we received was from Craig Kessler, he's a Chief Investment Officer as well as an executive bourbon Stewart. So he talked about per node selling wild turkey at 12 times its EPA, while brown Forman was selling at 10 x. So per node got an above market value during the time of the value of other competitors out there in the market. As for promotes re entry to the market, castle was trading at a price sales ratio of one x and per node paid about to exit the company. So brown Forman is currently trading at eight x. So per node is paying 75% less than brown Forman on a price per sales basis. So from this production 6:00 It looks like four nodes sold above market for wild turkey and bought castle below. So we'll see about more of that into the podcast that after that we also dive into PBR is new whiskey, the artificial tongue and if you tariff data that's now been published is still going to continue to wreak havoc on new exports. All right, now let's get on to it. Let's hear a word from Joe over a barrel bourbon, and then you've got Fred Minnick with above the char. I'm Joe Beatrice, founder of barrell craft spirits. I know I talk a lot about blending here. But we also have a national single barrel program asked you a local retailer or bourbon club about selecting your own private barrel. 6:41 I'm Fred Minnick, and this is above the char. In 2013. I started a series at the Kentucky Derby Museum called the legend series. It was a great opportunity for me to sit down with the legends of the industry and ask them questions about their careers and taste their whiskeys. I've talked to great people. 7:00 Julian Van Winkle, Edwin Foote, Harlan Wheatley, Chris Morris, Bill Samuels, Jimmy Russell, Jimmy Rutledge, and many, many, many more. It's been one of the most important events of my career. And now as I go into building the eighth season of The Legend series for the Kentucky Derby Museum, I just look back on it, and all. It's also where I made my first connection with the fellas here at bourbon pursuit. You may have heard this story where Ryan showed up and forgot to turn on the microphone. We still razz him about that. But it really was a great, great moment. I think, not just for me or the Kentucky Derby Museum. But for all of bourbon. The Legends Series was really one of the first high level high education events that allowed people to get really connected to a master distiller or a CEO and learn about what makes them 8:00 Tick. And I'm very glad to see that today we know everybody's mash bill. We know people's business procedures. And you have companies like heaven Hill who are creating diagrams for social media about airflow in a warehouse. So much has changed in eight years and the people who are most to be credited with this, are you, you the consumer have more power today than ever before. And let me tell you, the whiskey distillers pay attention a lot more to what you think, than they do. The USA Today or the New York Times, you are the most powerful person in the all the equation of American whiskey. They follow what you say on social media. They follow what you listen to what you read, and they want to know your opinion, constantly. So join me in the further pursuit of knowledge and let's 9:00 asked people to open up and tell us more about their distilleries. Some people may think it's unfathomable to know what's going behind the scenes when they're making a price increase, or what they're thinking when they're changing their barrel entry proof. But eight years ago, heaven Hill didn't disclose their mash bills. Now, they freely tell you every single grain that goes into their whiskies, so things can change. And that's this week's above the char. Hey, make sure you're following me on Twitter and Instagram. So you can come to next year's Kentucky Derby Legends Series. You can find me at Fred Minnick again at Fred Minnick. Cheers. 9:45 Welcome, everybody. This is the 36 recording of the bourbon Community Roundtable. This is where we talk about what's happening in bourbon bourbon culture bourbon news. We've got a lot of topics to cover, but you know, this is also the beginning and how we're kicking off 10:00 bourbon heritage month so everybody welcome to bourbon heritage month it's kind of like our Super Bowl if we will right we're finally here doing that. But you know not only this bourbon Heritage Month starting to kick off but one of the biggest things is this is also turning into festival season. You know we just wrapped up bourbon on the banks. There's one called Kentucky's edge that'll be coming up and first week October however, Fred Super Bowl here is here and in two weeks so Fred you getting getting mighty pumped for bourbon and beyond? Yeah, bourbon and beyond is right around the corner. I've got two other festivals right before that one but bourbon and beyond is my baby. I work on a year round. We've been working so hard on it, obviously we got the Foo Fighters ZZ Top. 10:41 Alison Krauss, Robert Plant, Zac Brown band we got all these incredible bands but we also have 10:47 you know, grand Melia from top chef and we have a lot of lot of cool panels here. So you all are on the panels. Nick Jordan's there on behalf of breaking bourbon. But I'm very proud of 11:00 The curation of the panels this year, and it's just an incredible, incredible lineup of of education and cocktail. Yeah, I mean, do you want to kind of give people a little bit of a teaser on what some of these panels are so they can go out and yeah, so well one year of moderating Kenny is like what is a master distiller and that's something that we in our community we talked about all the time like what is a master distiller? I mean right now technically Brian who's just a lawyer could be a master distiller without even going any kind of like training for it. We're I'm moderating a panel about the history of slavery and American whiskey. This is the very first time that anybody in our industry has approached this and I want people to realize that you know, this is something that 11:50 you know, it we, we kind of like avoided a lot but you have people like fun Weaver 11:58 and you know, who's bringing 12:00 to the forefront and making sure people want to talk you know, make sure people talk about it because it is something important that is a part of the American whiskey heritage. And I don't think we should just like gloss over it with and so that that's, that's a big seminar we've also got one called bourbon disruptors. I'm excited about Brian's panel that he's doing. It's called whiskey dark past, you know, there's been a lot of murders, there's been a lot of bootlegging. All kinds of shenanigans have been associated with with American whiskey. And, and so you have some some deep ones. And then we have some like real basic like high about how to make a high ball and how to make a man hat and an old fashion. We have a lot of stuff like that as well. So licenses, as well as the hardcore ones. Yeah, and I think at least all of us, we're super excited to actually be there be a part of it beyond the panels. And, you know, while we're doing that, let's go ahead and introduce all of our guests that are here or sorry, our typical roundtable member 13:00 Is that are here today. So let's start off with somebody who might not be able to be here for that much longer because he's getting ready to start batten down the hatches as as the hurricane starts making his way so Blake from Florida checking in How are you, buddy? Doing well, How are y'all? 13:18 We're trying to sneak sneak in a little bit. Yeah, it's been quite the week we you know, I'm kind of a little bit of a procrastinator on the on the storm side, but this one looks like we could get a little bit so yeah, no school for the next two days at least. 13:36 Well, good deal. Well, make sure you you stay safe out there. You know, we're all we're all making sure that you know, everything is everything's good for you, as well as all the other flirty and bourbon residents that are down there. So hopefully everybody is staying safe and heat and all the warnings of evacuating if you actually need to evacuate. That is true. Yeah, you know, but the streak continues. I just kind of throw that out there. The streak continues. 14:00 Introduction. 14:01 Absolutely this qualifies. It sure does. Yep. Yep. So Blake, if you could go back 10 to family please do please go for it, man. Thanks for thanks for chiming in here. 14:12 Yeah, I'm good for a few minutes. arena question Where were we? Not yet we're just still we just started going through the the table just going around the horn so well. 14:23 Yeah. Well, let's take a break. So Brian, you go ahead and take next. Yeah, thanks, Fred. And again, this is Brian with sip and corn. You can find me on Twitter and Facebook sipping corn Instagram to sip and corn and online at bourbon justice calm and sip and corn calm and just to echo Fred's comments. 14:44 Probably no one is is is as excited as he is. But I'm I might be second place got rained out last year for my bourbon workshop. So I'm really excited about doing it this this year. And Fred Thanks for including me. Yeah. 14:58 And Nick, let's go ahead break 15:00 bourbon. Let's hear it. All right, thanks, Kenny. I've Nick from breaking bourbon breaking bourbon com. Check us out on social media at breaking bourbon. And yeah, unfortunately, I will not be able to make bourbon and beyond this year, but Jordan will be there. I will say I am pretty disappointed. It was a pretty fantastic festival last year even with the day the rain out the second day. And you know, I think anybody who's gonna be making it out there probably won't be disappointed. So I'm sure Fred you're probably going nuts now still getting ready for this thing but yeah, it's a pretty fantastic bourbon festival seems to seems like it's only getting better year after year. Wow. Thanks, guys. I gotta tell you, you know, it means a lot to me hearing you all say that because, you know, getting rained out. It was like it was like a gut punch. And it was just so it was really devastating because we had to cancel the other festival which is the Hard Rock Festival louder than life the next weekend. So all three days were canceled. 16:00 So we're really hoping and praying that we don't we have great weather and we're at a weird a better location that can handle the rain so like it's at the fairgrounds it's like right across from the actual Expo Center building and it's like that flat plane and it's a much more it's not as beautiful as champions park with all the trees but it's something that you know is if if this thing floods the whole city's underwater 16:32 there's gonna be a new meters thick that's going to be on the side of the bridges the show the the great flooded 20 2019 if that's what it is. Knock on wood. Yeah, let's we're not gonna have that it's gonna be remember the first year it was hotter than hell out. The second year was just torrential downpour. Third year it's got to be just clear skies. It's what it has to get it perfect. Yep. Alright, so let's jump into it. So the first topic of conversation is kind of a big one. You know, we've had days all our 17:00 on the show before good friend of the show from Jeffersons, and it was announced last week that Pernod Ricard is going to acquire castle brands which Jefferson's a part of that portfolio for 223 million. So it's good to see that porno is still still on the hot streak of buying a lot of stuff. You know, I was just looking at Castle brands. His website, of course, like Jefferson's is the one that kind of screams out to a lot of us. But they've got they've got an Irish cream and an Irish vodka. They've got Gosling's rum, they've got Aaron whiskey, which I had never really come around before. But again, it's a it's a bigger portfolio but it's it's pretty good to see this sort of thing you know, we've been not really not accustomed to seeing a lot of these. These brands start getting acquired. Now porno is actually kind of on a buying streak. It seems a lot recently. 17:51 You all kind of see. This is a trend that's going to continue to happen like do you think these more smaller brands are going to continue to keep getting 18:00 swallowed up by a lot of these big ones. 18:03 One thing that I noticed about this and I know, I know what they're paying for, obviously 223 million sounds like a lot of money. But for these larger companies, it's really, to me that's a that's a low amount for a brand like Jefferson's, which really is a workhorse. I mean, that that's a good selling brand that, you know, that alone could have probably sold, you know, you know, five years ago when you had high West sell for 170 $5 million. You know, Jefferson's was 10 times the brand of high YS at that point. So I think and I know what I know what rabbit holes sold, but I can't really say and I felt like that was a low amount as well. And so I feel like they're getting these these these brands that might be in debt and they may not have as much like 18:56 you know, may not they I don't know what 19:00 How porno is doing this, but that's not a lot of money for for castle brands. I just don't I just don't think there was anyone else looking to buy them. And so, right now you have the big companies and I don't know if they're out there looking to buy up, you know, brands unless it's like white cloth at the moment. You know, the like laws the hot one. So I guess that you know I come from the I always say that where I come from the tech side and so seeing things in the, you know, a couple hundred million dollars of acquisitions aren't, you know, it doesn't really I don't really bat an eye at it anymore. So you said that 223 millions just really not a lot. 19:37 And you think that it also could be 19:41 are there really only like a just a tiny handful of big players in this game that actually have the capital to acquire and if they already have something that's in their portfolio, do they need to continue to keep acquiring? Yeah, let's look at the brands that the big. The big portfolio is proud for 20:00 pronounce Ricard Diaz. Do you throw Proxima in there? BM Suntory obviously 20:07 Karen which has four roses would you know throw them in there and you know there might be a couple others that could really move the needle but you have to look at like what are the who has what it says rack Africa says RX a big player obviously. 20:27 And in 2009 porno basically got out of the American whiskey game when they when they spun off 20:35 you know Barton and you know, wild turkey and so you had like this incredible you know, they got rid of these these great brands and 20:47 and, and now they're trying to get back into the game after it was too late and pornos got a great Irish Whiskey portfolio. So Irish Whiskey is the only you know, whiskey that's really hotter than bourbon and 21:01 It makes sense for them to to try and get some jargon juggernauts but you know they've got smooth Ambler rabbit hole now and Jefferson I think they got rabbit hole really because of the facilities and rabbit holes facilities have incredible potential for expansion they fit right into the like the tourism model and Jefferson's is a hot hot brand smooth Ambler two is got you know they're they've penetrated a lot of really good markets so they made some interesting moves and I think they did them at you know whoever negotiated their deals I think probably did a very good job for them. Yeah, you know Nick or Brian Do you kind of see this as is Fred said it is this PR know kind of like crawling back into the market a little bit. You know if you know if you got rid of wild turkey at the wrong time because you thought it was a you know, basically a bad stock and you sold when the you sold out when is low and you know you bought it when is high like it they tried to like flip the script for themselves here. Well 22:00 I think they they definitely trying to do that. But they're they're filling their roster with D league players instead of what they lost. And I think their problem is going to be capacity. I mean, how can they increase production of any of those without huge distilleries to be able to turn this out? I see that is their issue. I mean, they they can get some from rabbit hole and they can get some from smooth Ambler. But that's a ways off. 22:28 Jefferson's is still just bottling in Crestwood. Right? I mean, they don't have a whole lot of capacity of their own. They're still sourcing. So where's it going to come from? So I see it is problematic there, they're buying the league players, and they can't, they're not going to be able to increase production. And I think that to kind of piggyback on the sourcing, and that's, you know, probably the comments that were, at least that I saw, you know, here in there, with, of course, the focus then Jefferson's in the in the bourbon world. 23:00 With respect to this acquisition, you know that's the question thing about high West with Ambler there, they've got distilleries, they've got the that kind of capability, you know with Jefferson's for example, it really is the brand that's bought the distribution you know, the labels that that kind of thing. So kind of to Brian's point it's that you know, it's that want to get back in the game want to get in in the game. I think there's still a lot of growth potential in general, but it's what is that you know, what are you going to do with that so now they've got two brands now they've got a pull out from you know, pull out from behind them probably invest quite a bit more Jefferson's to like they go from a company that didn't necessarily didn't necessarily have the ability to walk into a company like brown Forman and and strike a deal for 5000 barrels of stock. I'm not saying that's going to happen now if you're in our carbon now printer card. I mean, trees owners got muscle like NASA castle brand was is like 24:00 You know, that was like, 24:02 you know, a triple A baseball team, you know, in comparison to our car, who would be the Boston Red Sox or the Yankees, you know? So the buying power that they have to be on the source market. I mean, it just went up. And because they can, they can strike deals that he could never dream of before when they start sourcing from wild turkey that or MGP, which, you know, they they own the facilities after, after Seager. I'm sad to shutter all their stuff. 24:35 They got the facility in Lawrenceburg, Indiana, and DIZO. got, you know, Crown Royal and they're like, you know, who got the better end of the deal on that because they can never make Pernod Ricard can never make that Lawrenceburg, Indiana distillery work, and they sold it to LDI. And that, you know, I became kind of like the source capital but so that would be ironic if they end up sourcing from wild turkey. 25:00 GP. 25:02 And I guess another question that kind of throw at you all about this is do we see, this is going to be a lot tougher game going into this, you know, we had Trey on the on the podcast before I last year and we talked to him he said like, Is it getting harder now with sourcing, like our people kind of trend in your territory or you are in had all these relationships for and now you've got people that are on your turf barrel prices are going up. How can you maintain, you know, with not actually having a distillery that can pump significant volume? You know, is this was this a good buy for per node like it? It's That's a tough question. I think. I think Brian kind of alluded to that and I wouldn't say that they're, you know, deep play or anything like that. I I still am a fan of Jeffersons. I still like the whiskey they put out. However, in regards of an operation, it might have been a kind of a weird acquisition in my opinion. Anybody have any thoughts of like, is 26:00 Is ditches they don't actually do a lot of distilling or heavy distilling, like Was it a good acquisition? Or is it just something that you know as Nick said to it, just maybe a brand recognition thing that you have to understand like this business is driven by brands like we look at things from where the liquid liquid comes from, but this business is really driven by like a name and they're like it or not, whether you if you if you follow it or not, the Jeffersons ocean is one of the one of the best like marketing ploys of of the last 1015 years and American whiskey. Now I remember asking, I remember asking Trey for to see a man manifest that was barrels at that it was going to punch me but you know, you've got you have some people who disbelieve in that it's the ocean barrel concept, but he does put them out there and it's been one of the best like my 27:00 And the conversations that are marketing boys, I've turned into conversations. 27:05 At least in my world, everyone's like is a real? Is it real? Is it you know, so it's it's one of those things that it's probably just just on that alone. And the fact that Jeffersons is, is everywhere. 27:19 I think it was a great, great acquisition for PR now. So there's another comment here from Dan wall ski, you know, he sees Jefferson's brand is probably worth the investment. However, he wouldn't be surprised to see it now eventually start getting separated from Kentucky artisan and then becoming like a visitor destination of its own now, it's a pretty good theory, I think for for what this could potentially be and where could go to think about the Kentucky owl situation, for example, you know, immediately it's the plans for a gigantic, gigantic park in distillery, you know, so are we going to see something like that? Is that going to be the growth plan for her, not in this 28:00 Or are they just going to keep you know, continuing with the brand as it is and sourcing and kind of doing business as usual? Be curious to see how that changes over time. 28:10 For sure, and I think you know, there's there's also something that kind of it kind of jogged my memory when I think about this when we look at you know, we had Corky was last week's podcast, we've had coffee from rabbit hole on and there's always like this. A lot of these CEOs they say a lot of the same things of like, we're never going to sell this is going to remain in the family forever. And then it's like, is it though like is it like is it puts a fat check in front of your face? Like it's got to be pretty hard to turn down. There's always a number. I agree. I think you have to look at you know, let's take a look at at those two particular brands. Kobe had a lot of investors. 28:56 Corky did all this with his own money and he's got 29:00 Trust lined up and everything, it always comes down to the money. And look man, I'm in business. I don't come from money. I've had to work for everything I've gotten. And when you sit down in a room with with money people, you know, they always want something. So, you know, you give up something to give up shares of your company or something to get what you want out of them. But this, you know, there comes a point where they're like, okay, we've had a good time on this fried where's our payout? We went out and that we want to cash out and so everything depends upon how your business structure is when you have these small distillers 29:41 you know one other one other in games is that like, this is Yeah, no, I agree. And I think for anybody that is ever getting into business like you always want to think like yes I do for the passion. I do it for the for the joy of what it is, but at the end of the day, if somebody puts a big fat check in front, your face 30:00 That's, that's part of the American dream too. So you can't you can't discount that. So, you know, as we kind of almost kind of switch gears a little bit. And this is one that I actually kind of like this one because Fred sent this a little bit before we started here. And this was the fact that 30:18 PBR is getting ready to start making their very own whiskey. So I will drop the link here into the chat. I'm also going to drop it into 30:28 the YouTube chat as well so you can kind of see it, but really what it is, is PBR is now making a whiskey that's been aged for a complete total of five seconds. So that should probably already kind of get your blood flowing a little bit. So they have recently talked about their have a new, hard sell to it's coming out with a percent. But now they're actually going to be doing a 40% whiskey. It's already 40% ABV that has been aged for five seconds. So Fred kind of talked about this one Fred does this. Make your blood boil a little bit 31:00 Yeah, I have two words for PBR. Fuck you. 31:07 Yeah, I think it's I think it's a, you know, PBR is trying to be trendy and they got some headlines with this. But you know, 31:20 given that we're, we have a brand that's raised, basically repackaged Zi Ma, taking over the space of 31:30 millennial consumption. And actually really, Why call penetrates the entire world right now. 31:37 Anything is possible with what will be the next big thing and PBR has got a big brand behind it and I just, I just wish they would, you know, 31:47 this is this is a mockery of whiskey so i just i hate everything about it. 31:55 Nick, do you share any the same the same feelings, you know, I 32:00 Always look, I do think it's interesting, it really created a buzz I think people who may not normally think about whiskey or bourbon or what they really are, you know, I think that just that buzz about that it's going to go into a container into an oak container, it's going to be aged for five seconds or, you know, whatever they end up doing with it, if anything, that's an awareness, you know, piece of will have number one, how good is it going to be, you know, so for somebody that is just doing shots at a bar, they never think about anything, you know, as far as you know, whether they like things that are you know, higher quality, you know, longer aged, etc. What am I really drinking? Where does it get its color from things of that nature? It may cause some people to kind of get curious about what's really there. And I think once people start getting educated reach the point of, you know, anybody who's listening to this or watching this right now, you know, you're obviously this is much farther behind, you know, where your journey started, or, you know, much farther behind where you are now where your journey started, but I think that's the interesting 33:00 part about it is kind of just that awareness. And what's probably a younger crowd that's going to be more, you know, 33:07 in tune with this or tasting this or whatever the case might be, you know, where it might make some people curious about exploring a little further and eventually getting to the point where they respect what's going on with the actual, you know, creation and aging and things of that nature. So I think it's interesting I don't hate it in the same way that I guess that Fred does. You know, Willie succeed. I don't know. You know, it's it's different than the beer in that sense of, you know, the beer. I see the market for this. I'm not so sure. I guess we'll see. Yeah, I think you look at it, like everybody wants to try to create something. And you know, what's PBR? PBR is not supposed to be some glorious luxury brand, right? Like this is supposed to be like bottom shelf like how like, How fast can we get this out the door and you know, really just churn product. And this might be following that same exact suit. I'm not too sure if this is supposed to be a a premium product by name. 34:00 Yeah, they're not trying to be premium and I guess from my standpoint it PBR five second whiskey has no impact on me whatsoever and I don't care about it. But I see where it's it's going like like Nick said it's going to be at the is going to be at the bar for a shot and hopefully it overtakes 34:22 you know, some of these other flavored whiskeys which I don't care about either as the you know, the new hot shot for college age through mid 20s. And then there's going to be a market for that and there always will be in my day it was Yeager Meister and you know, that's awful. 34:42 So, you know, knock knock your socks off, go ahead and do a five second whiskey. Try to sell it by by the shot to 24 year olds and I'll keep drinking what I've been drinking. 34:55 So you know, you talked about flavored whiskey there. Have you all seen the the new phenomenon of 35:00 screwball the peanut butter flavored whiskey. Okay, I think I had it first at your house to tell you the truth. But it started it's starting to catch on now like it's out here. Now I see it here. It's I mean, it's in all the forums, people are talking about it. It's like It's like the white glove whiskey right now. That was the first time I had it was bourbon and beyond last year. So I don't want to call myself a trendsetter. But you know, we did a 35:28 shout out to Tony from keg and bottle who actually gave me that probably about a year and a half ago. And he said, Kenny, I kid you not, this is going to be the next fireball. And so I mean, I guess a year and a half ago, he gave it to me and now all of a sudden, like people are buying and it's taken off a little bit, but you gotta like peanut butter, that's for sure. Because Yeah, definitely definitely has that. That flavor to it. Okay, then liked it or hate it. 35:55 All right, right position. Yeah. So So back to back to work. 36:00 whiskey. You know, there was something else that came out a few weeks ago on on geek calm, talking about the artificial tongue. Do y'all remember this? So I'll talk about it. So the artificial tongue can taste the light. Subtle, subtle, subtle differences. Wait, hold on. Wait, hold on. Okay, I got it. You don't have the art. I wonder what the artificial Tom thinks about the five second whiskey? I don't know. That's a good question. 36:26 I don't know if that's what it's really made for, though. Who knows? Right? I guess we'll find out one of these days. But this was built by Scottish engineers and it's ultimately made to sit there and try to find counterfeit frauds or anything like that. That's on the on the open market. And of course, you know, we talked about it with bourbon, you know, having counterfeit Pappy all the time and stuff like that. However, you're going to see this even larger scale in the scotch world as well. So Fred, what are your kind of thoughts on this artificial tongue? Well, I've actually talked to 37:00 Quite a few people about this who are like in a tasers role and I think most everyone knows I do a lot of tasting. And I think it's, I think it's great if it's not like, you know, stealing 37:16 that I'm curious to see like the data that like goes into it like how they how they create it, because I know of one like, you know algorithm that's out there that's been taking people's tasting notes and applying them to basically putting a collective 37:37 algorithm together of like white to say, from people various like if you're, if you're writing tasting notes on Reddit, or if you have tasting notes on a blog or anything that's scalable, there is now a there's some spiders out there that's out there taking him and they're applying them elsewhere. So, robot tasting, so if it's something like that, I'm not a fan of it, but if it's something that really 38:00 actually adds to the, you know, our world. I'm all for it. But, you know, the thing is, is like Canada, it's the right now their marketing is like spotting fakes. And that's great. But I wonder what their next iteration will be. Because, you know, 38:23 eventually it's going to be about like, you know, this is how you taste. So this is what you're going to like. And, you know, I think that's cool. Yeah, I think this could definitely lead to a lot of different things. I think. I think finding the counterfeits is a, it's kind of like a it's I don't it's like a gateway. Like, it's, I don't think it's going to have a large purpose at first. Like, I think you need to cover a little bit more blanket area here when you're trying to figure out exactly what can you do with this technology? It's got to be a little bit more uniform, a little more universal of actually how to catch on into the point where, you know, you know, Fred, you taste a lot, however, like, is this something where it's like, okay, 39:00 We've got six panelists that are humans and then our seventh is this AI machine, right? To make sure like, everything works like this out of this distillery, like, you know, we've been going for utilizing people for the longest time to you know, knows and tastes and actually understand what this what this is supposed to taste like and what typical batch it goes in, but we're human like what is human it's, it's you have error error is built in versus a computer. Whereas if you're feeding a data, like it's just computations, so you know, knicker or Brian, like, do you kind of see this like, much more spreading its way out into? Maybe distilleries should start looking into this time of technology as well. So I'm just waiting for the movie where artificial tongues go rogue, and one of them decides is going to go and replace everybody's whiskey with like rapid each whiskey because it's got the perfect profile and there's just insanity and chaos. You know. 39:59 I'm visually just look 40:00 is like little tongues across the street like just around like overtaken a rogue tongues. Yeah, rogue tongue, I think there could be great applications for it. You know, they just the question is, is it going to replace, not necessarily master distillers but you know, people that you know blend in in, you know, testing that takes place, you know, within distilleries, and producers, you think about kind of that non scientific nature of so much of this and even just tasting notes, like you're talking about, I mean, the very non scientific process in the sense and that's one of the kind of magical things about whiskey, you know, would we, you know, if there was inside each label or on each bottle, kind of like a very specific profile of a particular whiskey or almost a map that was scientifically put together, you know, would that be something that, you know, would enhance the experience to people want that, you know, is that the end result of what we're even, you know, kind of dealing with here? I think it's interesting from that aspect at the same time, I do think one of the 41:00 great things about whiskey is kind of the human and the art of whiskey. So it's almost a kind of a weird dichotomy of technology and, and kind of that, you know, our full human interaction that, you know, you don't want to see that necessarily overtaken but you do want to, you know, you do want to add you value when you can, you know, there's so many whiskies are so expensive, that I could definitely see a, you know, a value proposition for somebody to say, Hey, is this something I might like, you know, for example, or how do we design a better, you know, a better whiskey. I'm just really I'm really excited that there's been tech applied in 41:38 a valuable way usually, tech people apply it in the most into rapid aging or something that everyone's trying to fix that when there's really not a problem other than waiting. 41:51 But I'm just I'm just glad that somebody in the tech world is applying, applying their know how and skills to a very 42:00 particular area that we do probably could use some consistency. And I agree with Nick and I'll take it a step further though i mean i think while it's it's beneficial in some respects, to have this AI tasting because the AI is not can be thrown off with what you had for lunch or what you had for dinner. It's but it's on the other hand, it's going to be much more sterile of, 42:28 of an experience of a description of what you're supposed to be tasting. And so much as Nick said, is so much of drinking whiskey is the experience and it can change if you've got a steak versus something else. And it can change in the mood and I've been doing it presentation Fred did. Music can affect what you're what you're experiencing, and AI is never going to get to well Famous last words as never going to 42:58 have the experience 43:00 That you can have with whiskey and if I've got a piece of Gouda that I'm eating with it, AI is not going to be able to tell me again Famous last words how that's going to affect what what I'm experiencing at that moment. So it's it's nice but it's to me it's sort of like a party trick and we all know that Jim Beam or somebody would hack it to give like something like a legion like a 95 43:28 so now Brian, I'm picturing like, VR goggles, some scent thing going on here. 43:34 headphones with your favorite music, you know, you can certainly get right there. tastes and smells right at your at your disposal. Yeah, you see, a few Metallica, Metallica does that they have one of their tasters played various have everybody put on, you know, special headphones. And they have to taste like five different whiskeys. It's all their whiskey but they 44:00 People say like the whiskeys taste different based on the music they're listening to, and that there's news, new evidence that suggests that what you listen to has a much deeper effect on on how you taste. So I am definitely on board with what Brian just said there that the AI will never be able to pick out a more of a human element at least and probably in our lifetime. I think. I mean, I don't know, I think I think you're right, I don't think it's gonna have that human element to it. However, I think there's there's a lot of potential of what this could do in regards of thinking that you want to create more, say a brand that has a very, very specific kind of character. And so you take, you take one outside of a particular barrel, then you get a chemical breakdown of like the 30 different things that are in it. And it's like, you know, x percentage of something versus white percentage or another, and then you kind of figure out exactly Okay, I need this kind of percentages, and they all start equal now. 45:00 Alright, dump these barrels together. And now we eat. Now we kind of see this, this sort of specific profile that could be coming. So could be completely different in a way of building new brands versus just sitting there and saying like, okay, we'll just go and make sure this is this is this is not Pappy. This is just regular WO Weller. And you know, the thing about checking if something's fake or not, most the time when it matters, it's sealed, and you want to keep it that way. So that application is a bit of a struggle, you know, because you're probably rarely going to find a purchase contingent on you know, opening, pouring, tasting or testing or whatever the case might be. Yeah, how would you like to be the guy who just dropped $1.5 million on a bottle of McKenna gets a test and like, Oh, yeah, now. This is actually Glenfiddich, 12 year old, you almost don't want to know. 45:55 Like, no, just keep those things away. 45:59 Yeah, there's this 46:00 Definitely a bad side to that to it you know it as we start coming going down this path you know there's something news that happened last week. You know, there has been a tear on the secondary market lately like there's just groups are disappearing left and right. 46:17 The 2019 Kentucky's edge bourbon conference and festival pairs all things Kentucky with bourbon. It takes place October 4 and fifth at venues throughout Covington in Newport Kentucky. Kentucky's edge features of bourbon conference music tastings pairings tourists and and artists and market Kentucky's edge. 2019 is where bourbon begins. Tickets and information can be found online at Kentucky's edge.com. If you're making plans to visit the bourbon trail, the one thing you're thinking about is how do I get around to all these distilleries? We recently use Central Kentucky tours for a barrel pick and the hospitality and information was top notch tech. Even Ryan learned a few new things about Bardstown Central Kentucky tours offers public 47:00 Private tours for groups from two to 55 with pickups in Harrisburg, Lexington Volvo and everywhere in between. So book your time within the day at Central Kentucky tours.com. You've probably heard of finishing beer using whiskey barrels but a Michigan distillery is doing the opposite. They're using beer barrels to finish their whiskey. New Holland spirits claims to be the first distillery to stout a whiskey. The folks at Rock house whiskey club heard that claim and had to visit the banks of Lake Michigan to check it out. It all began when New Holland brewing launched in 97. Their Dragon's milk beer is America's number one selling bourbon barrel aged out in 2005. They apply their expertise from brewing and began distilling beer barrel finished whiskey began production 2012 and rock house was the club is featuring it in their next box. The barrels come from Tennessee get filled with Dragon's milk we are twice the mature bourbon is finished and those very same barrels. Rocco's whiskey club is a whiskey the Month Club on a mission to uncover the best flavors and stories from craft distillers across the US. 48:00 Along with two bottles of hard to find whiskey rackhouses boxes are full of cool merchandise that they ship out every two months to members in over 40 states. Go to rackhouse whiskey club com to check it out and try a bottle of beer barrel bourbon and beer barrel rye. Use code pursuit for $25 off your first box. 48:20 There has been a tear on the secondary market lately like there's just groups are disappearing left and right. And even the secondary backup BSM group that was over on me we may way whatever it is, is that's now gone as well. So it's not like it's just Facebook, it looks like this is like a virus that's continually trying to spread and it's just getting knocked out sort of wherever it goes. Now don't get me wrong, there's still a few groups that are remaining You know, they're probably around like the two to 3000 member Mark but there's nowhere near even on the bsm on me was like almost 10,000 or above. So it seems that we're everybody flocks to 49:00 These are just getting can left and right. 49:03 Now I've tried to reach out haven't really heard anything of in regards of why it happened or anything like that. However, it just seems there's there's no safe haven right now. Do you all kind of see this as is this can be the new norm? Or is it just like, it's just hot for the moment? We'll have to wait ride this wave, and then maybe here in another three months, will we back up to where it was, is going to happen. It's just a matter of what in when. And it might change over time. You know, as we're seeing right now, it's certainly changing how the communication is done. Probably the bigger question is if we have these call it a period of a drought, for example, which is interesting, because this is happening, you know, before we start seeing some of the big fall releases and things of that nature, you've got to ask yourself is is that going to change the the primary market, you know, because how much of the primary market is driven by what ends up happening on the secondary market? You know, so a lot of people buying you know, basically 50:00 The idea that they're going to be able to turn around and sell for a profit, if that is no longer in place or that you know, you knock out 50% or some in reasonable percentage of the, you know, people that are able to do that or see their ability to do that. Does that start driving prices down on the primary? I think it'll be interesting to see how that you know, kind of goes over the the upcoming months here. Yeah, I think we're going to see this in Natalie. That is, I think Brad Atlas had a post that was on Blake's group, this past week of, you know, the the new each Taylor amaranth has been album release. However, nobody can figure out what a price should be on it because there's no room there is no place to auction off and figure out what's going to be even today. There were I think, like 72 birthday Bourbons that were sold at old forester distillery downtown to kind of commemorate the old forester birthday bourbon and George bourbon Browns birthday. However, I haven't seen a whole heck of a lot of them show up on anywhere. So you know, this 51:00 Is this could be a sign of the times that, you know, hopefully you're buying it to hold on to it because finding the outlets to sell it is getting a lot harder now. It's definitely interesting. 51:12 I, you know, I, I'm beta testing an app right now and I've been asked if, like, people can do that and I'm like, Well, you know, I have that I have to, like, seriously look at that now. And I'm thinking of like the potential liability associated with it. I'm like, 51:29 you know, maybe you don't know maybe in your chat your own little private chat group, which I can't see but 51:37 it's, it's fascinating to me. How this this domino effect and I would love I would love to sit down with Mark Zuckerberg interview request I put out many times by the way, never that I have a probably, but I would love to find out if like he's had a hand in or some on Facebook, haven't you know, I would love to hear the rationale behind it. But I know they 52:00 said some things but there's more to it, there's gotta be more to it. It just doesn't. just doesn't make sense to me, especially with this new, this, this new social media site dumping it so quickly. It just, it's odd. Just, it's gonna be coming down from somewhere else. I mean, fame makes you wonder if brands are involved. Sorry, brands, you know, if we've got brands or somebody specific, you know, with intent, you know, and is watching this more closely, and specifically, I think that's a great question. And they have been watching these markets for for some time because they would even like, you know, price their whiskey to, to combat it, but I would, I would argue that it may not be a brand behind it, but a very powerful retailer. You know, who wants that money 52:58 and knows that that money 53:00 He's out there they want they want your dollar. They don't want you to buy it, you know, SRP and then flip it. I mean, there's any number of areas this could go, there's any number of people who would like to see it stop. 53:13 But I do know this. I, I know that most of the like the state authorities don't really care. You know, I mean, I've talked to him about it, and they're really care, you know, but like Texas does, Texas cares, Pennsylvania. All the control states actually. But 53:33 you know, this is doesn't seem to be like, any kind of state leading it. 53:39 Yeah, I mean, I don't know. The control states, they don't want competition. And Sylvania doesn't want to know, what cracks me up about Pennsylvanians. Every year they send out a press release, and oh, we lost like three or four of them this year, or one was broken in and transport. And I'm like, wow, I bet it suddenly got lost on the 54:00 The state majority leaders front still front step and you know the bottle accidentally broke after it was consumed by the directors house in our at the directors house and me is just it's all kinds of silly with with Pennsylvania 54:15 well let's control states in general but you know I think when we when we look at just the secondary market you know we've talked about it in regards of like how this built a culture This is probably how bourbon has a mass to how big it is because most people wouldn't even know about a lot of brands if they didn't see them on the secondary markets begin with I mean it's we all have our stories so I think it'd be it'd be interesting to kind of see where this is going to go you know me when I look at it I think this was this is a critical and crucial part of really what made bourbon what it is today. And you know, there's going to have to be somewhere where people can basically value this as sort of currency maybe it's trading You know, I'm, I don't like to sit there and say like, yeah, go get a birthday bar, birthday bourbon, 450 bucks and go try to sell for 300 like 55:00 I'm not all about that However, it's like, if you get a birthday bourbon 450 yet, you can't get a George t stag this year. And that's just part of the trade. And that's great, right? That's, that's something that you are able to get your hands on, you can kind of trade your way there, you know, and start with a paperclip unit with a plane. But that's that's essentially like where I like to be able to see this because it's all about getting the, you know, the bourbon that you want in your hands and kind of how to get it. But yeah, I mean, I think you're right, but for to the point of like this, this help kind of like spread the enthusiasm. 55:33 I know like the people in the groups, if you if you put it on scale, you're looking at maybe at most like 2 million or something, at least the various groups that I knew of, and that's not a lot in the grand scheme of things. Those people who are like everybody's influencer in their families in their workplace, and they would be the people out there talking about bourbon so and it was the these groups kind of became community 56:00 Bs and I was, you know, I, I love them. You know, I love them because we're actually I love them five years ago, you know, they they changed quite a bit in the last couple years, but they were very, very engaging. You can talk history, you can talk about who distilled water like, I mean, I remember having a conversation with someone educating them about Woodrow Wilson, which if you don't know, he was a master distiller, it's it's a well or for a very short period. But you know, he made some good whiskey. And so I guess a, you know, as we start thinking of other ways of how is the bourbon market being hindered, you know, there's been finally some data that's now coming out about the US whiskey exports and the tariffs that are now happening over in the EU. So when we start looking at this, you know, I look at some of the data here and I'll again, I'll drop the link in the chat for folks that want to be able to see this. You can see all these links in our show notes as well. 57:00 But the distilled spirits council came and said that there was a 21% decrease from June 2018 to June to 2019. That was all lost sales after shipments to Europe plummeted. So we've got the data coming in. 57:19 You know, I know Fred, you're you're kind of close to this. Is there a way that things could eventually bounce back to help bourbon brains grow? And I will always say it again that if somebody says, Oh, yeah, this is great, because it means more bourbon on the shelves for me. You're in the wrong here. Okay. Think bigger. Well, there have been some really nice trade related things that have happened like in a couple weeks, I was invited to to meet the European Union ambassador to the United States. And they're celebrating scotch Irish and bourbon whiskey, the you know, the unique designations of them and like all the all the country 58:00 kind of coming together in Washington DC to celebrate this. And so, from an industry perspective, you know, they have the ears of their legislators, their ambassadors, their Parliament or whatever. 58:14 You know, Brexit also, you know, through a wrinkle into it. So in an odd way Brexit could be 58:23 you know, it could be good for for the tariffs, 58:27 you know, for that particular portion. But, yeah, so those are a couple of the good things but in in all seriousness, you know, they're not letting up you know, Europe is still very hell bent on applying pressure. And you know, there's been reports that they want to apply more pressure you know, in in in mitch mcconnell areas so I just, I just don't see this you know, being good and it's in it's shut out small brands like the topping Creek completely. And Kenny, I know you're a brand owner. 59:01 You know, you want to, let's say you want to open them. You have a small shop in Poland, who absolutely loves to show loves you wants to make you his number one whiskey in his store, you won't find a distributor in that entire country that'll take your call. You know, it's just because of tariffs, they don't want to pass that on it. They're just not taking calls from small American lyst companies. So 59:25 yeah, and I think this is this is, as I mentioned before, I mean, this is so much bigger than just what you can get here in the shelves like this is this is trying to grow the category as a whole to start taking on scotch as as, you know, the whiskey in the market. And we can't get to that level scotch unless you have a fair playing field, you know, across the board to be able to say like, okay, like, let's get this in the hands of people in Australia and Zimbabwe and China and, you know, in the EU as well, like, how can we grow this as a whole. And this is really where the tariffs are going to start really being that that first sort of 1:00:00 Hand slap, I guess you could say is, if you're trying to reach a new market, you know, all of a sudden, if you have a, if you got a 30 or $40 bottle here in the States, I mean, you're, you're looking at doubling that, if not coming close to triple as you start getting, you know, already just distribution overseas, but now the tariffs are adding a lot more to it. And if you can't compete with a, you know, 50 $60 bottle of scotch, then you're, you know, you're already setting yourself up for failure. And so, you know, as we start kind of rounding this out, you know, Nick and, Brian, I kind of want to get your sort of thoughts on this, if you have any sort of inkling of what do you kind of see next? Maybe, if it's an election year, is there anything that could change? You know, after that as well, Nick, you go ahead and go first. I was gonna I was gonna say the same. 1:00:53 You know, I, it's, I think it's tough to say what's going to happen going forward. I'd be really curious. 1:01:00 To see, you know, what small brands are seeing the impact of this right now? 1:01:06 Immediately, 1:01:09 you know, like anything, I think there's the initial shock of it, but then, you know, demand is demand. So if that means to 20% increase in price or whatever the case might be, if the demand is there 1:01:21 over time might cause that to, you know, to become a non issue. But, but it's a barrier of entry as a starting point. So when you think about bourbon growing on a global scale, and the potential it has on a global scale, you know, certainly that's a pretty 1:01:40 pretty immediate, you know, block of have taken that first step for a lot of you know, a lot of these brands on that larger scale. You know, what if you see this go on for a period of time, then suddenly it goes away, you know, do you have the opposite impact you have suddenly a flood of, you know, a flood of opportunity, a flood 1:02:00 brands that are saying, Okay, now this opportunity just opened up, we're going to put pressure on actually doing this. Because if you think about all the brands that are out there, especially the small ones, how many of them are actually taking those steps right now to get overseas? I'd be curious out of this 1000 or 1200 distilleries. You know, in the US, for example, how many you're saying, Let's get on the shelves in Europe, or let's get on the shelves in Australia or Japan or whatever the case might be? China, what's the market like over there? But it will be interesting to see how it plays out, you know, like anything, it's it's a global economy, we're going to see the push and pull. And I think ultimately, the long term play for bourbon for us whiskey is to be probably bigger than scotch, quite frankly, I personally think is better, you know, so there's no really no reason why it can't be bigger or at least just as big it's just a matter of time and what you know, things are going to have to move and shift around and what dominoes are going to have to fall in when 1:03:00 can't allow that to, you know, to really gain some momentum and happen. Bourbons got a long way before it catches scotch. And I'll tell you like, this is why this is why the tariffs are so frustrating to me is that, you know, bourbon became a unique product to the United States largely in part because they were trying to get special designation so they would not get tariffs after world to the country, the rest of the world basically tariff bourbon and open the open the markets for scotch to help the United Kingdom recover from World War Two because, you know, they were bombed and everything, they took a much greater hit on the physical real estate of their country. And, and so they were places like Argentina, you know, was terrifying us like 200% United Kingdom actually had like limits of bourbon that they would allow in the country for a given year. And when they would actually when the bourbon distillers would push to like, you know, have exports. You know, the French basically came back and said, 1:04:00 Why would we give you any kind of anything carefree when bourbon doesn't mean anything to us? Like you have no special designation, of course the French, you know being the home of cognac and Champagne has a very unique understanding of like designation for alcohol. And and so in 1958, they started the bourbon industry started banding together and working to make bourbon, a unique product in the United States. And after that in 1964, they then had the ability to negotiate and free trade agreements to peel away tar

The roundtable is back at it again, but this time we are joined by David Jennings of RareBird101 and Wade Woodard of tater-talk to discuss some topics. Learn how you can be a part of Wild Turkey history by supporting RareBird101 on Kickstarter and if you agree or disagree with Wade on barrel finished bourbon classifications. We wrap up talking about limited editions and store picks because that's always a hot button for all. Show Partners: Barrell Craft Spirits is more than just bourbon, they blend rye, whiskey, rum and have a signature infinite barrel project. Find them at your local retailer. Receive $25 off your first order with code "Pursuit" at RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. Show Notes: The week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about Joy Perrine, the first female bartender to be inducted into the Kentucky Bourbon Hall of Fame. Wild Turkey Kickstarter with David Jennings of RareBird101 - https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rarebird101/wild-turkey-american-spirit News came out this week that the TTB is allowing "specialty whiskey" classifications to adorn the name bourbon on the label. Is this the demise of the bourbon law? Maker’s Mark released another limited edition. From a retail standpoint, isn’t this the easiest money that’s ever been made? When it comes to store picks should retailers care about what’s in the bottle? Taste vs Age, who wins? Will it sell no matter what? Thank you to Blake of bourbonr.com, Brian of sippncorn.com, and Jordan of breakingbourbon.com for joining as usual. Unknown 0:00 Everybody's a lot of chime in whenever they can. Jordan. Unknown 0:05 just lost anyone else. Did you know? All right, I mean, you know when your video wasn't breaking up, you might have saw. Unknown 0:27 Hey everybody, welcome back to Episode 196. of bourbon pursuit. I'm one of your hosts Kendrick Coleman. And this is the Community Roundtable. That means I don't have any news to talk about because all we talk about is the news. On the round table. We get some of the latest gossips and the fun cultural topics that we all love to hit on such as barrel selections, but a little bit news about us. We recorded a live podcast this week with Corky Taylor of peerless distilling company. Make sure that you don't miss out on our live streams and live recordings because we have Unknown 1:00 Another one coming up in May. Make sure you're following us on all our social media channels Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. And you're going to be the first to know when we go live. Are you interested in partnering with bourbon pursuit? We're the most downloaded whiskey podcast across America. Check out how you can get your brand in front of a million bourbon drinkers per year at bourbon pursuit calm and hit the partnership button. Or you can send us an email team at bourbon pursuit calm. Now with that, let's hear a little message from Joe over a barrel bourbon. And then you've got Fred Minnick with the above the jar. Unknown 1:37 Joe from barrel craft spirits here. Barrell Craft Spirits is more than just bourbon, we blend rye, whiskey, rum and we have a signature infinite barrel project. Find us at your local retailer. Unknown 1:50 I'm Fred making this is above the char. If you walked into a low level bar in the 1980s you had a variable Unknown 2:00 little chance of getting a good Manhattan or old fashion or Mint Julep. Most of the bartenders were used to just slinging beer and porn, a little whiskey. Oh, nice or neat. And then came a young woman named joy Perrine. She came from the Caribbean islands where she served as a bartender at St. Croix and made all sorts of daiquiris and various types of from drinks and all kinds of banana frozen concoctions that made the island visitors quite happy. Local had never seen anybody like joy brainy. She stood behind the bar and slung mint juleps like nobody here before. She made Manhattan's and created special syrup that would complement Bourbons, unique to Kentucky. She was so amazing. That Esquire called her the bad girl of bourbon and the reason why she would tell you off if you Unknown 3:00 ordered a bourbon the wrong way in her opinion or if you boasted a little too much about what you thought you knew about purpose Unknown 3:08 because of her accomplishments in life, Joy preening was named in the bourbon Hall of Fame, the only female bartender to be inducted into the bourbon Hall of Fame. When she passed away two weeks ago, I thought about my relationship with a 73 year old. She was quick witted, would always tell you what she thought, but boy that she loved family. She loved her daughter, she loved my family. And I gotta tell you, if you were ever enjoy parade, nice presence and she made you a drink that taste that moment. It would last a lifetime. Unknown 3:47 her longtime employer, Dean corporate, died a few months ago as well. And I like to think that both of them are upstairs right now in the cloud somewhere, sipping on a bourbon Unknown 4:00 hope that I can only add to what Dean and joy did for the local community. And whatever you do in bourbon, whether it's consumer or promoted, I hope we can all live up to the standards that joy Perrine created. Unknown 4:18 And that's this week's above the char. Hey, did you know I got a new magazine out? Go check it out. It's on newsstands now look for bourbon plus and Whole Foods, Kroger, Barnes noble, and a lot of other places where magazines are sold. Hit me up on Twitter or Instagram at Fred Minnick. Until next week. Cheers. Unknown 4:40 Welcome. This is the 31st recording of the bourbon community around table is another favorite of bourbon pursuit because this is the opportunity that not only do we have a variable mix of some of the biggest bloggers and authors in the scene of bourbon here to join us, but we get to talk about Unknown 5:00 recent news and it's also the opportunity for fans for people that are in the bourbon community as well to join and watch this happen live and be a part of the live chat as it goes down so, Kenny Ryan and Fred here from bourbon pursuit team fellas, how you doing tonight? Unknown 5:18 Great. Unknown 5:21 3031 times down we had we had to mess up. Unknown 5:25 question Why do we do with the hardball? Unknown 5:29 Where's the bunnies? I'm trying to count all the towels on the bottom of the screen. I'm like how many people we got Unknown 5:37 is the round table as a bourbon family and I'm here at my cigar family and the lounge, smoking a stogie and just excited to get this going. I'm in my basement, looking at my kids two ways. Unknown 5:52 You know, let's do this pregame. know everybody's got a little bit better atmosphere but this is also the pre game that we're recording this about an hour before the Unknown 6:00 NCAA Men's National Basketball Championship kicks off. For me. I've got to still go with sec. So I'm pulling for Auburn tonight. Ryan, Fred, what about you all Auburn's not playing tonight? Really? Unknown 6:12 Where are you talking about 30 games? Getting? Oh, yeah, you're right. Sorry. Virginia. Virginia. Unknown 6:21 Tech. Yeah, I'm waiting for the one but they found you know, Unknown 6:27 start over from the topic. Unknown 6:31 I'm going I'm going to go actually have Virginia, Virginia. Virginia has had to crazy wins. So, like the probable odds of winning those games are like, not profitable. So probably they're going to win them. Go Texas Tech. Red Raiders. There we go. So we got our first three in. Let's go ahead and kick it off with our Cal Ripken of the Community Roundtable. Blake. Take it away. Yep. Just just continuing the streak all the way through undefeated Unknown 7:00 In the bourbon really count Unknown 7:04 I'm not sure Unknown 7:06 if you play if you throw a pitch and a game you counted as played but no so tonight well I'm Blake from burner burner calm and steel box calm so for tonight's game don't really have a dog in the fight Unknown 7:24 yeah birthday day of being a Florida fam. Ok now go back to back national championships a decade ago but Unknown 7:32 I think it'd be interesting to see Virginia when you know to go from the first number one seed to get knocked off by 16 seed and then go back and win the national championship the next year. That's pretty cool story. Unknown 7:44 Texas Tech and really I just have no connection to other than I'd like that bobby knight coach there for a few years but so my heart would say Virginia but I don't think they are they're going to win. I think Texas Tech actually wins. For going to do a spread. I'm going to say Texas Tech Unknown 8:00 by seven and Unknown 8:03 one up this Yeah. Unknown 8:07 bourbon or pick on that one if anybody wants to me. Oh, nothing's really Unknown 8:14 can I put my mortgage down on it? Unknown 8:17 That's a five star guaranteed. Unknown 8:20 Brian second quarter to go ahead and take it. All right, thanks. Yeah, this is Brian was sipping corn find me at bourbon justice calm or sipping corn calm Unknown 8:29 my team tonight I'm in protest so I'm still rooting for the cats somehow some way but since they can't win since it was robbed from us I'm going Texas Tech tonight the the probability that Ryan was talking about of some of those games that Virginia one and just not being able to put points on the board makes me think this is a Texas Tech kind of night. There we go. Thank you and an honor of one of our topics and one of our guests. I've got a wild turkey 1850 Unknown 9:00 Five the 1.8 proof nice and I've got a drink the rest of it because reminder to people quirks can still break after the initial opening so the rest of this is going down Unknown 9:13 somebody's gonna sleep really well tonight Cheers. Unknown 9:18 Jordan take it away. sure this is Jordan from breaking bourbon calm one of the three guys on the site visits for the Release Calendar. In Depth reviews can also find us on social app breaking bourbon, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter and Patreon. And for the championship game since Dukes been knocked out. I'm gonna stick with ACC and refer Virginia. Alright, and then we've got two other guests that are joining us tonight and they're always familiar faces to the podcast as well. First I'm going to go with Wade Woodard who is he's keeps the Tater library. He's got Tater talk calm. So welcome back to the show. Hi, good to be here. As you mentioned, I'm a whiskey geek. I have a blog side paid or hyphen talk. com Unknown 10:00 I am the compliance officer of the Texas whiskey Association. And we are within the next month launching a Texas whiskey trail with 14 distilleries on the Texas whiskey trail. Unknown 10:13 Let's see the game tonight. I one time was in Lubbock and I had an Aggie sticker on my car and I went into a restaurant and I came back outside and I had to slash tires Unknown 10:27 know I came here for other writers. I guess I had to go over with Virginia tonight and because it's working, you know, I brought out my Monday evening bottles here so I'm having a little while I'll turn feature of you might spark so here's just a poor Unknown 10:48 just happens to be above his computer as we're recording. Unknown 10:54 All right, and then David Jennings of Robert, welcome back to the show. Hey, glad you had me on. Unknown 11:00 Absolutely and you know, give a plug about you know what you do and that'll kind of lead us into our first topic tonight. Okay, well, I have a blog. It's rare bird one or one.com primarily reviews the wild turkey whiskies. I have some articles from time to time, there's resources there with the timeline and bottle codes and this kind of thing. And more recently, I just finished a first draft of wild turkey book, which I don't know if you want me getting into that or not right now. But anyway, I'm just glad to be on as far as a I'm just guys I'm just not into sports as much as you guys so in my house I'm rooting for wild turkey wins every night. Unknown 11:43 Also, the say is like is there something in your life that like doesn't revolve around wild turkey like at some point is your wife or your kids are just like God, we can just quit it just Unknown 11:54 a little bit, but I try to keep it you know, try to keep it in check. So anyway, it's all it's all fun. Unknown 12:00 And it's my passion. I mean, I really enjoy it. So, you know, it's, Unknown 12:04 it's hard. You know, if you're if you don't love something, you're not going to do it every day. But when you're really passionate about something, it just happens all the time. So that's that's my life on a weekly basis. And I David, I gotta tell you, when you when you reach out to me to read your manuscript, I was really honored and to see where you're going with it is fascinating and starting a Kickstarter campaign that is one of the it's one of the riskiest things you can do as an author to go out there and, and do that because you're putting yourself out there everyone's going to see what the donations are. So take us through that process. Why did you choose to go with the Kickstarter route? Okay, well, you know, Unknown 12:49 well, you know, how difficult it is probably back when you first started to get somebody to pay attention to you and and give you some type of publishing deal and or one that's even worth a flip and Unknown 13:00 I didn't really want to compromise. I was, Unknown 13:03 um, you know, willing to entertain, you know, publishing offers and that type of thing. But ultimately, you know, I, Unknown 13:10 I felt like no matter what I did, if I went that route, it was going to take a long time. And you told me, you know, we're looking at maybe February, the earliest, you know, something worked out, maybe later. And so, I felt like this was the year you know, I wanted to get something out there. This is Jimmy's 65th year coming up in September on September 10. And I would love to have a copy of this in his hands by that day. And I thought, well, I think I have a strong enough fan base to get just enough to make that happen, you know, hire a photographer and, and get some designed to have a nice looking book. You know, it's not going to be probably as nice as some of the other hardcover books out there. But it was enough. You know, I thought I could get enough together to make it something worth buying, you know, and I'll be honest with you, setting up Unknown 14:00 Kickstarter, it wasn't as easy as it was, when I set up my Patreon, there was a lot more verification to it, and you know, there was no guarantee that it would be approved. And so I put everything out there and tried to set it up as best I could and just kind of cross my fingers that they would sign off on it. I did. Unknown 14:18 And now and I did the math, and I'm like, okay, I just want to break even, you know, with this, you know, I don't want to, you know, you know, set myself upside down with rewards in this type of thing. So I sat down and did my math. I watched a lot of YouTube videos on how to run a successful campaign. Unknown 14:33 And so I did my research. And so I came up with 30 $500 Unknown 14:37 is probably enough to get the design photography, all this stuff together to get something out their own. We're a book can be purchased on the on demand basis, which I'm sure you're familiar with Fred, but like with Amazon, you can publish a book on demand. So you send them a PDF file, and they print the book as people buy it. And so I was just trying to cover the cost to get the book there. Okay. Unknown 15:00 And so Unknown 15:02 it alarmed me to find out, you know, within 24 hours. I mean, it was like I had like $1,000 already, you know, and then today I hit goal, like, you know, 10am or 11am or something. And I mean, and now I'm at like 40 $500 Unknown 15:21 or something you know, and the Bergen community. Unknown 15:27 Y'all are some good all of y'all. Well, David, I'll tell you, I'll tell you that Unknown 15:33 we will open up their wallets to turn, you know, like they're they do that to people that like, and you've always come off as a very genuine very fun person. And you get to know you and see if it's even more and then you got that South Carolina accent. You know, where's this all in? Bill Clinton Unknown 15:57 when I was sick Yeah. But yeah Unknown 16:00 Well, you know, guys, Unknown 16:03 it's, it's humbling it really is and I really appreciate it and appreciate you know y'all having me on. I'm going to continue with the Kickstarter is going on for another 5756 days or so. And everything you know, every penny I get above my goal is just going to go right back into the project whether I can make a classier book than I originally set out to. Or I can do some marketing. Like, you know, I've been thinking about some ads or this type of thing where I could at least try to, I'm not gonna be able to compete with the big publishers but I can I can maybe hit a target audience better than they can now. You can whip their ass Unknown 16:41 so let's let's kind of decent here today with 57 days left your auto pays to make $256,500 Unknown 16:53 Yeah. Unknown 16:56 Y'all keep talking like that. David, I will give you I'll give Unknown 17:00 Just some economics behind you know, books like I, you know, I've been writing books for more than 10 years now and my first my first my first whiskey book whiskey women, I had like 500 rejections and you know, if I had the access like Kickstarter or had the notion to do that I would have I probably would have done it but my advanced for that was $2,000 and so they don't like that typewriter manuscript Unknown 17:34 actually do Unknown 17:37 that. So you you actually stand you know for what how you're going about this. You probably actually stand to make you know, legitimate money off of it. You know, from from the book sales. If you're putting it all back and look like that's the goal was just to kind of see if I can, you know, upgrade the product because I would love to have something in my hands that is comparable to what you would find will book stand Unknown 18:00 I'm not cutting any corners with the Amazon print on demand. I mean, it's going to be a full color photo quality, highest grade paper that they have is going to be soft cover, unfortunately, because amazon kindle demand does not do hardcover. But if I continue to raise funds like this, I can have the Amazon Kindle demand for an option. And then I might be able to go to like book baby or Ingram spark or something, and print some hardcover additions. And those might have to be on a limited basis. It just depends, you know, but that's kind of where I would like to go with it. Unknown 18:31 The most important thing to me is that I won't something I want something in Jimmy's hands, that's what I want. If I can just tell his story, and of course, you know, there's a story in there and there's a lot about data in there. But if that is what I really won't, because Jimmy is such a legend, and I feel like it's it's his time to get even, I mean, he's had a lot of accolades. I'm not gonna lie, you know, he's had a lot of people Unknown 19:00 Give him various honors. But I think is there's a story there that a lot of people have not heard yet. And I think that this is the time this is the year his 65th anniversary at the distillery. And I really want to make that happen. And I want to make it happen this year. And it looks like it's going to happen now. Thanks to everybody. And I'm a Patreon supporters and, and everybody that's donated on Kickstarter, people that have tweeted, retweeted, done stories on Instagram, Facebook posts, emails, word of mouth, all this stuff really helps, and I really appreciate it. And I can't say thank you enough, I really can't. Unknown 19:34 Well, you've got more time to go here. You know, you, you hit a goal within three days, which is fantastic. You still got 5050 some odd more days to go here. So I kind of want to let you give, you know, sort of one last plug that are sort of on the edge or like maybe thinking oh, well, he's already got his funding, like why should I even bother to promoted or back is still but give some ideas of why people should still back it because of the stories and some of the content Unknown 20:00 You're going to be delivering inside of there as well. Okay, great. Well, again, I want to take any extra funds raised and increase the quality of the product and promote the product. And the purpose of promoting the product is to make sure that the story of the recipes and the Russell's and of wild turkey distillery in the Lawrenceburg area is put out there. And I think like said, it's a story that needs to be told. And it's the right time with Jimmy's anniversary. And then we had the one to one anniversary last year with Jimmy and Eddie's combined service. And so that is the most important thing to me. If it stays a self published thing where it's promoted on my blog, or my, you know, Twitter feed or my Instagram, it will reach people, it just won't reach as many people and so I need to make sure I can raise enough to get it to the right places, like bourbon plus, or something like an adverb plus would be a really cool thing. And so that is that's my goal. So I just have to raise enough money to do that. And I think the other Unknown 21:00 You know, there's content there that you will enjoy. And there's a whole appreciation section to it's not just history so if like history is not your thing if you're like I just don't really, there's there's gonna be a lot of reviews on there are tasting notes, my impression on different expressions, and I'm doing a lot of photography I'm paying for a lot of photography so the book is going to have a ton of bottle porn in it. It's going to have a lot of like cocktail porn. It's just yeah it's just going to be just loaded with excited just loaded with but just good porn at the end and I've got a good photographer so I it's I'm not it's not you know my stuff. Unknown 21:41 I you know, wait, I don't mind hitting up whiskey advocate either, but they're not on the show tonight. Unknown 21:49 I'm going to talk about bourbon. Unknown 21:51 Know your audience and you you talk porn. So Unknown 21:58 let's change the subject back to that. Unknown 22:00 You know, I'd like to get them in the bc i don't know if that's going to happen or not, I haven't really talked to compile it too much other than I did arrange some. Unknown 22:09 Well, at least I started the process of arranging to have the photographer come in and be able to take photographs, and make sure that there's no you know, questions there. Unknown 22:19 But, you know, it would be nice to get them in in the visitor center. I think it'll probably happen in time maybe after it's done and somebody has something to look at. I'm doing a very limited run this week, I sent a local printer Unknown 22:33 the book without pictures to have a just like a mock up late. So it'll be in the eight, you know, the five by 5.585 or whatever, you know, kind of book format digest format, and, Unknown 22:48 and I'm going to send those out to a few people to do some editing and some review. Might you might get your targeted at date for release. And how can how can your fellow panelists here help you okay. Unknown 23:00 I would like to have it completed in time to give it to Jimmy so that would be September 10. I'd have to have it in his hands so September to at least have a run of the book done by local printer so it would be exactly like what would be on Amazon but I can work with my local printer and have that rushed and done quick so I can do that habit FedEx. So you know I guess sep tember first at the absolute latest would be you know my deadline there but out to the world you know I'll put on their December because I didn't want to kind of overextend myself or make promises I couldn't keep because I don't know what the turnaround time is with Amazon and these things I haven't got into that. You know much research on that side because I'm more focused on just getting things done. But I put December but I'm guessing you know, it'd be more like october november sometime sometime like that were to get there before the holidays. That would probably be the best thing to do because it would make a nice Christmas present. I think you definitely want to time it with that. Unknown 23:57 The stocking stuffers they start emulating yeah Unknown 24:00 I'll request that is so that 50 bourbon stones I have. You know, Unknown 24:05 I just I never imagined how much I mean, you don't think about these things like indexing like, you know, like, Fred, someone does your index for you, you know? Yeah, I'm like, I'm gonna have to do that. And like, I started messing with Microsoft Word and I load Microsoft Word. I mean, it's got a lot of features, but it's just it sucks the creativity out of you do don't don't do indexing. I'll connect you with someone who will do it. He's got a great typewriter. Unknown 24:29 Exactly right. It doesn't say like we're getting out of the bounds of even when I even know. Well, thank you for it. I mean, seriously, because I played with it. And I'm like, Oh, my God, I'm gonna kill myself. Unknown 24:39 It was just not I want to create, you know, on the right. You know, I didn't do a review this week, because I was so focused on getting all this stuff together. And I love writing reviews. So it really hurt, you know, to have to take that hit this week. So if you've got someone that can do that, oh, that would be awesome for you to talk offline about the effect of Bernard stuff. I'm sorry. I'm on you guys. Unknown 25:00 Good, let's go on the rails here. So, Unknown 25:03 so I want to say, you know, David, thank you again for coming on and kind of give us an insight about your book for anybody that's wanting to help back as Kickstarter. And you know, with the Kickstarter, you get an actual copy of the book too. So you can get that link in the show notes for the podcast as well. But I kind of want to move it on to the next subject in this is where it kind of all happened in some sort of like Twitter spiral. Fred had tweeted about cast finished bourbon jumping the shark. Wade had a tweet about the TTP telling him that you could add flavor and color is so called a bourbon. And my head was about to explode and I said, You know what, let's just have both of these guys. Come on in and we'll just put it out there and kind of see who who's kind of feathers we can rafal if we're kind of tailing off the wild turkey thing there. So wait, I kind of want to toss it over to you to kind of talk about where where this conversation spiraled out of well, if you haven't bourbon, or a straight bourbon whiskey Unknown 26:00 You put it in a secondary task it becomes class type 641 whiskey specialties is no longer class type one on one or 141 which is bourbon or straight bourbon. And the team can you be has a chart that what products by class type can have flavorings added to them. And when you become a whiskey specialty, you're also allowed to add up to 2.5% harmless color flavoring event blending materials into a product. Unknown 26:33 So I think that's what Fred was talking about somewhat is that you can add these flavorings into secondary cast finished products and you don't have to disclose the fact and then we had a major producer just came out with a Unknown 26:48 bourbon that had been finished partially in wine cast partially and Sherry cask and they acted like they reinvented bourbon and they were calling the project directly on Unknown 27:00 The bottling they do have that you know what was done to it? bourbon finished and partially finished but we need people people like us because we're transparent talk about the product you're talking about. Unknown 27:11 Okay, Jim being legend. Unknown 27:15 So if you go on Twitter and type in legend, every single post, you'll see me posting the actual cola say no, it's not bourbon, whiskey specialties. Unknown 27:29 And this is something you've been on for a long time I've been I've been a lot more kind of just generally, I kinda I liked the category because I liked a lot of taste of them. But I've never really liked the fact that bourbon and straight bourbon are on these labels. And Unknown 27:49 this year at the San Francisco world spirits competition, I think a lot of people know I'm a judge there, and I had the special barrel finish category on my panel. Unknown 28:00 We're tasting these I mean it was like one was like over Sherry read one was over ported one had one was like three different wine cask finishes and that none of them had any notice what note whatsoever of a bourbon and and that was a moment for me that Unknown 28:22 you know where I realized that we're so far removed away from these things tasting like bourbon as a whole that bourbon should not even be on the labeled for the for a lot of these special barrel finishes. And when we create like a distilled spirits specialty or whiskey specialty that allows them to do a lot of the things that they want to manipulate it to remove it from the the actual flavor profile of the original spirit. I don't think bourbon should be on that label is you're starting to see a lot of these independent battlers. A lot of these craft Unknown 29:00 distillers try to separate themselves in the market. So instead of improving distillate or instead of having a good quality bourbon to begin with, they're trying to what they do and rum, which is add things to compensate for the lack of quality in the original spirit. And I gotta tell you, it, it has to have people like Booker know and Parker been rolling in their graves because this is the sort of thing that American distillers fought against in the late 1800s. Again in the mid 1900s. Every time there's ever been an effort to to mess with bourbon distillers have rose up and fought against it. And today, it's the exact opposite. You're seeing the larger distillers you know, push for more of these allowances within the within the federal government, and it bothers me, but I'm going to kind of take a different side of that. Unknown 30:00 You know, we talked to people all the time, every good every that does all the barrel shrink finishes, you're talking the angel's envy that Joseph Magnus is in the world, everything like that. And they look at it is, this is this is a new territory, this is a new angle, this is how bourbon is going to go to the next level because there's new new realms of experimentation. Whiskey is going to go to the next level in their opinion, but it's not bourbon. You know, we have the path back back 100 years ago in 1909, that basically said we couldn't had these adult all degraded spirits. And now we're getting back to, oh, well, let's add this stuff to bourbon again. So Unknown 30:40 I know what you're saying. I know what you guys are saying when when you support the category from a flavor perspective is very good. It's very exciting. But you know, at some point, we have to protect bourbon. And if we do not then so Unknown 31:00 Suddenly this has got there's going to be an allowance of coloring and flavoring to bourbon. And we have to protect that. And that's all this is about. That's always talking about that's all I'm talking about. I love I love the flavor of the angels a lot of the angel's envy products. I love the flavor of the Magnus products. I'm just coming to a point where you know there were there are people in that category who are taking advantage of it straight up taking advantage of it and adding flavor packets to it, you know, saying oh, well I got a little bit of a this is a pork barrel finish I just happen to have an extra bottle of Port there you know, so that is what people who are getting Unknown 31:41 getting flanked by those who trying to compensate for shitty quality distillate devil's advocate not disagreeing but just playing devil's advocate. So I guess more for waiting and Fred, so they come up with a new category called bourbon, whatever that defines the rules, regulations around how you Unknown 32:00 can finish a bourbon would that be something you're open to are now? Unknown 32:05 I would prefer not to use the word bourbon. Call it whiskey call it American last year called some new name. Well, I'm like read it should be protected bourbon. Yeah, you gotta like bourbon. I think I think what you have is them just not following the laws because I don't have a problem and it sounds like y'all do but personally I don't have a problem if they call it Kentucky bourbon finished in whatever barrels but I just pulled this bottle and it says a truly unique bourbon. That's not abiding by the TTP standards. And now on the bottom it says Kentucky straight bourbon whiskey and then a line below it partially finished in wine and share cast. So with that wording, I would have a problem with it. But I think it's you know, for me, I don't have an issue with it saying, you know, bourbon finished in whatever cast because that's what it is. You know, it's Unknown 32:58 pending that they always do that. Unknown 33:00 That those they start marketing efforts where they're just calling it bourbon and leaving off what was done to it confuses the lines and that's what Jim Beam is doing with this product. But interesting I contacted the TTP specifically about this Jim Beam legend product and as the compliance officer at Texas because I have 14 distillers that look to me the same what can we do own labels what's allowed? Wait, America, America looks to you know, Unknown 33:30 again, I want to make sure that the products they're putting out a fully compliant with all the laws and someone we're making some of these products. And so I sent the TT Did you know, direct question, you know, is this Jim Beam label fully compliant with the TTP laws and they basically came back and said, this label is compliant. So the TTP doesn't seem to have any problem with Jim been calling this product, a unique bourbon. Well, I don't know. I don't think I've never met. Unknown 33:57 Go ahead. Sorry. But no, I was just I was Unknown 34:00 I agree with Blake on the bourbon finished in but my devil's advocate question for Fred is Unknown 34:06 it's it's a subjective question to say when a bourbon finished in whatever kind of barrel no longer has the attributes of bourbon Unknown 34:16 so how do you how do you govern that Unknown 34:19 you know I just a bright line know finished it's finished it can't call a bourbon now again I'm not opposed to finishes and I'm not even really opposed to having you know bourbon necessarily on the label. But is it when is it the one is it the main one it's the main word on the label versus an amplified word. I think that it really where you know where we're getting here's here's the thing with with whiskey distillers really human nature's you give someone an inch, and they're going to take a mile Unknown 34:55 No, and that is where we are. I can't I can't remember who Unknown 35:00 What the brand was when I found out what it was, but it was finished in like three or four different tasks, and it was still in, you know, it's still on the shelf as a bourbon. You know, angel's envy is in one casks, whatever you think of them there in one cask makers 46. It's, it's one style, it's got French oak stays inserted, but we start getting past one barrel. I mean that that that's that is where people will start taking advantage of it. And then you're going to get into Celera. And you're going to get into all these other things that the Steelers are going to try to do to take advantage of it to stand out and to have used their marketing tools. You know, to get a very clickbait headline that will run rampant on something like men's health or gear patrol or Forbes or wherever. And that's that and I'm just telling you from a pure like readability standpoint, that Jim Beam story is all over the place. It is Unknown 36:00 All over the place and like what is what is drawing IR from Wade and a lot of other people is that fact that it continues to be called bourbon and, and being so different and it's getting put in that same kind of like innovation innovation bucket, as Unknown 36:19 you know, something like sweet mash, you know, and no one cares about sweet mashing. But to me that's innovation for bourbon. You know, to me that is real innovation. You know, the barrel finishes I again, I love the category. I love so much of the flavor of it. But we're getting out of hand and I just know in ROM, it's a shit show. You know, they say it's a hilarious system. They're not Celera. Well, I mean, the other thing is, is that when we're talking about these finish, Cass you all are no better than me. But I don't think there's a law or anything that states about how empty a certain cast must be, or how dry or how how age it has to be until days. I mean, Unknown 37:00 Could have six bottles of rum left in there or seller or Porter Sherry, it could have a few drops. There's there's nothing to say. Unknown 37:10 rebuild their barrels and then they refill them to write and that's how. Unknown 37:15 Yeah, exactly. Again, that's also what they doing wrong and and you know there's there's nothing wrong with that for for like creating a whiskey and another thing weight is something that is, is is of growth right now our blends we're seeing a lot of blends of various types of burdens. And you know, and this is this is another area where people can slip in a little bit. You don't see blend of straights, you know, what are you getting? So there's just there's just a lot of things where there's this incredible Unknown 37:51 I feel like taking advantage of an eager populace to drink bourbon. Unknown 38:00 Not to cut you off or but you know, it's funny the whole time we're having this conversation. So I think it's almost like the very front line has already been last a long time ago and where I think we'll take like wild turkey honey or Jam Jam stack or anything like that. So and I talked to a lot of people who don't normally drink whiskey or bourbon, right? Let's say, Oh, I had this really good bourbon was like cherry flavored, or I had this really good honey bourbon. I'm always like, oh, and I start to explain to them and they're like, Uh huh. So do you drink that bourbon? And it just goes right over their head, right. Like, the big distilleries. They won that battle A long time ago, because in their minds, people are reading the label. They're already especially with the brand. Yeah, right. And that's not even bourbon begin with. It's just a blend of the corn inverted right now. You know, they last a long time ago. Well, I think one thing we're seeing you ask how the how these products can be compliant with the TTP. If you exceed 2.5% and these flavorings, you would technically have to call it a flavored whiskey. We don't know how much product is in these cast when they add it in. So actually Unknown 39:00 Lot of these products get measured on time. Typically, they're probably exceeding that 2.5% level that's allowed by law to be added to it. So a lot of these products, especially when you start doing multiple casts, like Fred was talking about, they're probably exceed the 2.5% and probably legally should be called flavored whiskies. Wait, I have a question. Is there a definition for cask? I mean, what's the cask? Does it have to be a certain defined barrel? Or can it just be a wooden box mean? What's a cast? It may change soon. Unknown 39:34 I mean, what's a cask now? legally? There is no legal definition for you go. Matter of fact, in the TTP regulations, they call it an oak container. They never even say barrel or carrel cast, they call it containers, but they're changing that container finished whiskey. Unknown 39:55 Jefferson ocean So wait, wait. I'm curious what your Unknown 40:00 Think of this My belief is that if if, if the buck if it stopped with like something as simple as like angel's envy, I don't think we're having this conversation. And we were, I really respect what angel's envy has done, because they never they always are always very transparent that you know, there they are bourbon finished, bourbon finish rye finished and done but I mean, I don't know. I mean Bourbons bourbon by itself. That's the way and I think English stuff should be whiskey. That's just my opinion. Like, maybe I'm too old school because I grew up around it but why not in something man, just bourbon bourbon. You know, right. If you do that, we'd have to have like a whole spin off show of called like whiskey finished in podcast pursuit. You know? It works. Well. Unknown 40:55 Don't do it. Unknown 41:00 You know, but you know, as as we look at what the future is all right, so it things are taking off, and people are getting more influence, you know, throughout the, throughout the consumer base throughout the, the governance. And you know, what does that look like in 10 years, we've seen what this looks like now after really a 10 year explosion of barrel finishes. If in 10 years, this continues to escalate, Unknown 41:28 it is going to be a shit show and bourbon will be damaged. If we hold the line on what is bourbon. And if they would have stopped with angel's envy, we wouldn't have a problem. If they would have stopped at that style. We wouldn't have a problem but it didn't. Unknown 41:44 So I guess to kind of wrap this segment up if there's a call to action for bourbon consumers out there, Fred Wade, like what is what is that action that somebody should take? Unknown 41:56 Well, my saying is, if it's not straight, you must debate Unknown 42:04 He's been he's been teaching that one of Unknown 42:10 the next t shirts come Unknown 42:13 to bottled in bond because that's not getting messed with that's Unknown 42:18 that's even even more that's straight plus face well shit Brian then you're only going to have like 12 whiskies in your bar Unknown 42:26 you think bottled in bond is not getting mess with I my latest blog posts talks about a bottle and broad product really crossing the line and got over the world. Unknown 42:38 Damn cannot ride a way we reached out the way for pursuit spirits. Unknown 42:45 One more thing on this topic though, if people do like these finish whiskies, I did a little experiment recently of trying to make my own at home by just adding a little port or a little Sherry or a little grandma or gay directly to the bottom. Unknown 43:00 And let them married for 30 days and had a panel of 11 blind tasters taste my version versus the commercial versions and two out of the three my versions one easily hand down. So you can make these products at home by starting with a good straight bourbon base. I get a couple of things. One bottled in bond from a label labeling perspective is starting to be Unknown 43:25 you know, kind of mess with whistle pig has a bottled and barn. So you see, you see something like that that's out there. So we've seen flavored whiskies make it through the TTP as bottled in bond. So bottom the bond is absolutely You know, it can be Unknown 43:45 you know, penetrated and and i look at I always go back to ROM when we talk about this, take a look at the state of affairs ROM ROM is a there's not many really genuine pure producers left Unknown 44:00 So if you want if you want bourbon to turn into that, then let's just, you know, let let this continue to go buy more live legend. Unknown 44:11 Absolutely. Well, I mean, I think we, we definitely came away with some some learnings here. So anybody that's out there, make sure you are you're reading the labels, you know what you're buying, and you make sure you're looking at a lot of these guys blog posts because they go in depth and you'll be smarter because of the Unknown 44:30 bourbon pursuit wouldn't be possible without the support of our Patreon community, and with help of our following partners. Unknown 44:39 You listen to podcast, so you know that there's more craft distilleries popping up around the country now more than ever, but how do you find out the best stories and the best flavors? That's why we've partnered with rock house whiskey club. It's a whiskey of the Month Club who's on a mission to uncover not only just the best flavors, but those stories that you want to hear Unknown 45:00 From craft distilleries across the US, rack houses box ship out every two months to 40 states and rack houses April box there featuring a distillery that was located inside a former North Carolina prison. Whiskey prison, home to Southern grace distilleries. It's the prison you'd want to break into. Rock house whiskey club is shipping out two bottles from Southern grace distilleries including it's double gold award winning conviction small batch bourbon, which is the first bourbon ever to legally be age behind bars, go to rock house whiskey club. com to check it out and try bottle of conviction today. Use code pursuit for $25 off your first box. Unknown 45:43 But next I kind of want to talk about sort of the hype train that continues to build just around limited editions and everything like that. And that was because this past week in Kentucky there was the last edition of the Kentucky Wildcats Maker's Mark limited edition a release and makers Unknown 46:00 Mark does one of these every single year it's it's usually in the Kentucky, Southern Indiana surrounding areas, they'll make somewhere between 12,000 to 20,000 of these bottles. And of course, there's just people lined up around the liquor barns and total wines and other stores and the cost goes, and I look at this and I try to view it from a retail standpoint. And I'm kind of curious and kind of look at you all. Is this thing, the greatest scam that's ever been invented? Because it seems like retailers just make so much money over doing nothing like they can just sell a bottle like that in an instant. Kentucky fans will buy anything Unknown 46:39 goes more than just that. I think makers has this down to a science mean they've been not just Kentucky but they do. They've been doing this for years. It's like all right, what sports in one let's roll out the red white or red wax. Let's roll out the different colored wax. Let's slap it on there and people go gaga for it. Right I mean, including Unknown 46:57 the RNC and the DNC convention. Unknown 47:00 Two years ago Unknown 47:03 I've been doing that for a long time to rock the boat bottles for sure. Unknown 47:07 Yeah, Jordan, art. Yeah, there's a long tradition of that. Right. You know, with all the decanters and everything from years past that the distilleries would put out. Maker's Mark seems to be the only one who continues to keep it a long living tradition and yeah, I mean you know, I guess if you see it on the shelf in your dad kind of like bourbon and there's my sports team on there Okay, I'll buy it you know, it's well but I thought you bring up a good point blank, but those decanters were when bourbon really wasn't selling so people are going more from the higher they are in the bourbon right makers money and people are buying bourbon left and right now but they're still rocking it out but people people love it. I mean, you know and and so like about like to justify bottles, those things just sell out automatically, where now they just they have the market cornered because if Buffalo Trace comes out with a Kentucky Wildcats bottle, everyone's like, hold on a second. Somebody else Unknown 48:00 But you know but it just expects that maker so Unknown 48:05 it would be question that I see is that this these newbies out there thank you these are special edition that there's some kind of special bourbon in the in the glass Unknown 48:17 is Unknown 48:19 it's all 12 year old Maker's Mark everybody Unknown 48:23 know that the over over Maker's Mark Unknown 48:27 This is what overload tastes like it's pretty good Unknown 48:32 10 years could you release this Unknown 48:35 suckers and kept buying them for a while and then I realized that that's the same juices I just started using them as mixers like Unknown 48:44 bars like here you go but i think i mean i think certain brands right so you got makers but Woodford doesn't work there during bottle right? Yeah, we'll go guy off for that. I think each brand has their niche and they Unknown 48:55 who was it Secretary that for? Oh yeah, that was Unknown 49:01 That was that was good Unknown 49:04 that Secretary one Penny Chenery the owner secretary, it out that was that was one of the coolest experiences of my career was pick a whooping with her when she picked up on but these things are you know we can bitch about a lot of different things but this is a little bit to me of the spirit of just having some fun. You know it is what it is they've been doing it for a long time. It brings in outside outsiders interested into to the category. It gets new, you know new fan bases excited. I like it. Most people don't open the bottles you know. Unknown 49:45 You get Unknown 49:47 the last one I tried open was the Astros World Series bottle I had to take a blowtorch to. Unknown 49:56 Pretty sure somebody out here wanted a beam Unknown 50:00 Comes bottle and it came out just to the right Unknown 50:05 there you go. I've worked hard to get Unknown 50:08 I mean they could put just colored water in there and No One Unknown 50:13 No One No one else is saying it's kind of like you know we talked about it on community around table in the past of having a sign bottle. You're like well do I really want to open a book open up a bottle it's been signed it's like now you know I'll just open up something else so all those things just gonna sit on the shelf it's gonna be a cool decoration. I opened my son bottles so do i do yeah, you really are rare bird Unknown 50:43 just said he just sent me up so well. Unknown 50:46 Funny pitch right there. Unknown 50:48 Really is a night which bottle will they be making? Unknown 50:54 UVA Yeah, Texas Tech battle. Who knows? marketing. It's just marketing though. I mean it Unknown 51:00 It's not I mean it none of the juiciest are really being like you know enticed by these it's it's more for the you know the mass public that enjoys makers and beam and it's just I don't see anything wrong with it personally I think it's a smart move on their part makers has always had great marketing as kind of their thing you know cheers with him for doing it you know Unknown 51:23 maker says a really big collector seen as well right i mean there's there's guys who just have you know Brian Brian and Unknown 51:32 there's another guy but they you know they have hundreds of these bottles they buy every single one so you know get feed the audience as well which is pretty cool. Almost spent $200 on the Jaguars Makers Mark bottle one time from the AFC know what they did it for wasn't AFC Championship but but you did that because you were a sports fan? Yeah, no. Unknown 51:53 He did that background. He was playing Unknown 52:00 For now through me a touchdown the light was on the bottle my really about to pay $200 for Makers Mark Unknown 52:08 Alright, so I want to kind of just dovetail this into the the last topic tonight and this is again going to be more across on the retail side because I kind of pitch that one is kind of a build up because I look at it in a way that oh it's going to sell no matter what you know, it's it's limited blah blah blah even if it's not limited with 20,000 bottles in one state and you're only targeting us a sports team. It's still going to sell out no matter what. But then we start looking at some things when it comes to something we all love and talk about which is barrel pics and barrel selections. And there's some some retailers out there that they don't care about what's inside the bottle. They will get a barrel sample or they'll get a phone call and they say hey, we've got three barrels. We've got a nine, nine year nine and a half year and a 10 years ago. I just will take the 10 year old doesn't matter like littles will take it because it's age and that's what sells Unknown 53:00 So when so what do you all kind of think of this? Like, do you think that in this sort of this today's market that Yeah, age is going to sell a product? It doesn't matter what it tastes like or anything like that. You got a four roses. That's 10 years 10 and a half years old, it's going to sell no problem. Unknown 53:20 Yeah. Unknown 53:22 I mean, it just does or sorry, go ahead, Ryan. Oh, no. Well, Unknown 53:26 I won't say where we were and who this was for. But when Kenny and our two barrel cake recently, the master distiller we went through 10 barrels, and he picked why they go, Well, Unknown 53:36 this has gone to such and such store and we're like, that one sucks or something. He was like, well, they won't care. Unknown 53:43 Like along those lines, and so it's like, just always make sure where you're buying stuff. You know, who's taking the barrels, because a lot of times they're out there and they're just like, what's going to who they're not here I send them this one, you know, so that's my just take on it. Well, I think I forget who it Unknown 54:00 Was but they're talking about you know the difference between group pics and store pics is a pretty big thing or just trusting the store that's picking it you know we we had that experience that when we did our VCR Buffalo Trace pick there were a couple barrels and there were like this just isn't very good. And we're like you know how what happens these barrels It was like well somebody is going to eventually get these and you know it's just a store who says yeah, give me whatever it's going to sell out no matter what so it's another one of those things where it gets like hyped up hyped up all you got to get store pics you got to get store pics, and then all of a sudden just garbage starts flowing into store pics as well. Now it's like okay, you gotta trust who's actually picking these because otherwise you're going to end up with something that's worse than just what you would find on the shelf. Unknown 54:48 people our age trap, you know, Unknown 54:52 for for something with a big age on it up. I'll be honest with you like with knob Creek pics. The 1314 year pics are just not my Unknown 55:00 thing. Um, I mean, I like a more around the nine year mark from the ones I've tasted. Maybe that's just a personal preference. Unknown 55:07 But like with Russell's reserve, I recently had a pic from Justin's House of bourbon. And I was like, Unknown 55:13 This is amazing. I mean, the finish was a little short, but the nose and the palette was amazing. And I found that it was just barely cracking eight years and I was like, really, and it was from Camp Nelson F, which it from my experience has been very spicy. A lot of draw spice and heat. And this one was real fruity. It was very kind of almost like four roses, like like OBS or something. And I was like, this is just incredible. And he was like, Yeah, man, it was just it was barely eight years. I was worried you wouldn't like it. I'm like, I love this thing. And so you can't really go I didn't know what the age was going into it. And you can't just assume that because it's got double digits that it's going to be good on that is not true. Um, there are plenty of eight nine year picks out there have a various you know, four roses, Jim Beam, whatever that Unknown 56:00 Excellent so don't go by age but a lot of people fall for the trap 14 year knob Creek, you know gotta get it now you know, it's like I don't know you might want to taste it first you know? Yeah, totally agree. Yes Do they trust you they trust who's doing the pics you fall for the age age and they also fall for the proof a lot to right so you'll see the same thing it's like oh, it's high proof that's just as I'll get the highest proof or short barrel Oh, short barrel God. Exactly. Right. So you know, Unknown 56:24 it goes right back to what Brandi said. We got to know the people picking it. Right and just find a flavor profile of somebody else that has a similar you know, tastes as you do and just trust them. Yeah, so elixir spirits here commented in the chat and said it happens quite often. He had an eight year 11 month old SK he took delivery on over a 12 year OBS f however, the SK took one and a half years to sell versus the 12 year which only took six months. So yeah, I think it really boils down to people have this idea of of age statements when they go in and they don't really care. Unknown 57:00 Even said He even told customers that the sky tasted better too. So that just goes, Yeah, and people still buy it. And I think I think this is sort of the thing that we're starting to see. And and what I'm starting to see with some of the the retailers is that they don't they don't care about going and tasting it. They're just like, sure, just get the highest age put in a bottle, it's going to sell no matter what. Unknown 57:25 You don't see age statements on every other thing. So you're like, I think people get excited when they see like a higher age on something. Because your age statements are gone now. So that might be why Well, I think a little bit of this to you know, you're starting to see this is you know, we're talking about this but there's another coin to this is that the distillers are going to the distributors and saying, if you guys don't take this barrel, you're sending us a clear message. These rate retailers are not necessarily doing this by choice mean Yes, they are. Unknown 58:00 selling it but a lot of the bigger ones, you know, they're trying to keep that they're trying to keep their applications and their guys still go in there and get the sweet honey barrels. But they do take on a load that you know that maybe old forester doesn't want a knob Creek doesn't want, you know, doesn't have like a group coming in and selecting them. So it's not necessarily always the retailer's best interest to say no to these larger distillers who are dictating who is getting barrels right now, right? Yep, everybody's on the chopping block. So you got to just take it take what you can get Unknown 58:36 retailer here in Houston that they liked to have store pics, but not with their particular name on it. So they want some kind of designations. I'm going to stick around the bottle and it was a private barrel pick. But in case it's bad, they don't really want to have their name on the bottom. Unknown 58:55 I guess you aged storks sword because you know then people love it. You don't even get to play Unknown 59:00 It is the greatest thing ever. Yeah, it's when you have some side stickers. Unknown 59:07 Of course I go around that stores and randomly throw a little stickers out on that looks like a private barrel. Unknown 59:15 Just just help them run through Unknown 59:18 a bunch of unicorn stickers you know just Unknown 59:22 a unicorn that's that's probably the next good prank that you could probably pull next year April Fools just go to total wine and just start putting stickers on everything and just see what a few pictures out there and just watch people start running. Unknown 59:39 I bet the retailers would actually like that because like social media traction for them. Unknown 59:45 Absolutely. Yeah, press is good press. Good deal. So that's gonna that's gonna wrap it up for tonight's episode. I want to say thank you everybody for joining us whether you're live watching us through the chat and then also Unknown 1:00:00 Thank you to everybody here on the panel that joined us. So Ryan Fred thank you again I'm kind of want to go around the around the horn one more time to let people give an opportunity to do say where you blog and Yeah, kind of start closing it out. So Blake, we'll start with you, buddy. Yeah, Unknown 1:00:16 I'm Blake from bourbon or calm always great to be on here. Good to be back in the full aspect and not just a quick drop in so you can find me on Instagram Twitter, Facebook, do you are Bo and are also check out? seal box calm. That's s e ll be a CH s. We specialize in craft spirits. So check it out. Yeah, thanks for having me guys. Get all your bourbon delivered right to your door. Whether it's finishing a cask or not, it's still good. Unknown 1:00:46 All kinds of all kinds. Unknown 1:00:49 We can Yeah, whatever you want, you know, a lot of Unknown 1:00:54 new roof. Just a barrel landed last week. So that was that was a big one. It's already gone. So your YouTube like Unknown 1:01:00 You can get some of the other numerous stuff if you'd like. Unknown 1:01:03 Good deal Brian. Go ahead, go next. Alright, thanks. Thanks for having me on again, Brian with sipping corn and you can find the sipping corn calm and bourbon justice comm check it out on Amazon and through the comics website. Unknown 1:01:19 Good deal Jordan. You're up next buddy. This is Jordan one of the three guys from breaking bourbon. You can find us on social media at breaking bourbon along with Patreon. This is the site for our daily updates or at least calor along with our in depth reviews. Unknown 1:01:35 Good deal, and we'll just keep going in order we had before. So Wade, you're up next. Yes. My blog is Tater. hyphen, talk calm. Or for the folks that are listening in Texas. They might want to check out Texas with e.org Unknown 1:01:52 There we go. Big things happening in Texas. All right. Always, always, always big things. Unknown 1:01:58 And David, go ahead. Unknown 1:02:00 All right, well, if you want to read some wild turkey reviews, get a rare bird one or one.com. You can find me on Instagram at rare bird one to one, you can find me on Twitter at our bird, one to one. Unknown 1:02:11 And of course I'm on Patreon patreon.com slash we're bird one on one. And I have a Kickstarter as you probably heard about a book I've written about wild turkey. And I want to thank all my Patreon supporters, and the people that have pledged on Kickstarter and all my followers and readers and last but certainly certainly not least, thank you, Fred. Thank you for talking with me and guide me through this process and being so supportive. Appreciate it and I hope that everyone recognizes that you know, as passionate as I as I am about Wild Turkey, bread is passionate about bourbon, so thank you. Unknown 1:02:45 Good thing you're talking about Fred there because I was about to pull like a Bob Barker like the wheels, the wheels. Unknown 1:02:52 You're Unknown 1:02:54 trying hard for that bourbon plus, Unknown 1:02:57 discount. I gotta get that discount now. Unknown 1:03:00 You have private jet ads in there? Unknown 1:03:04 Absolutely. And so make sure you're following course bourbon pursuit on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram. You're also following Fred Minnick at all those different channels and supporting Of course, bourbon plus there as well. Right? Go ahead and close it out for us, buddy. Uber bus now. Thanks, guys for joining us as always, this is the shortest whenever I guess there's something going on tonight or something. Unknown 1:03:28 But no. Unknown 1:03:30 appreciate everyone. I'm a super excited for the rare bird Dave Jennings book. I'm super pumped. So please support that because I think it's going to be a great addition to anyone's bourbon library. But uh, Anyways, thanks, everyone, I guess go Cavs? I don't know. I mean, Unknown 1:03:48 so. I don't know. Yeah. We'll see what happens. Yep. Unknown 1:03:54 Well, with that, thank you, everybody, and we see you all next week. Cheers, bears. Unknown 1:04:00 Good Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Blake Cronyn is Ironman, ultramarathon runner, Guinness World Record holder, Nike Pacer, technology entrepreneur and twin. When he is not in front of a computer, he on the pavement either on a bike or in his shoes (Nike only). Humans are tool builders; Blake use technology as a tool to enhance his mental and physical capacities in order to maximize my potential. He is also the President at rBux. Humans are tool builders; Blake use technology as a tool to enhance his mental and physical capacities in order to maximize our potential. He is also the President at rBux.   Episode Overview: Hey innovators! I've got another tasty treat for you. This week's episode I get to talk to the president of rBux. It's almost like "our" Bucks which tells you that this episode is for everyone those that want to get rewarded for telling your friends about what you've bought and what you recommend. And those retailers and companies that are looking for some way to kind of partner with the actual general public that is utilizing your services. It is kind of a WIN-WIN. Blake also share about how the importance and how the best practice of throwing spaghetti at the wall can help you really figure things out. He shares the anti sloth best practice out there and how action conquers fears.   Guinness World Record and Business Ventures Blake is a Guinness World Record holder for the longest TV watching marathon in history and it was sponsored by Bell Media. And they did a publicity stunt for the unveiling of Crave TV. The ironic thing is that Blake don't actually watch a lot of TV but when they told him about their experience he obviously was ecstatic because I wanted to get a Guinness world record and be the best in the world at something. It is in that occasion that he met his partner Bruce Clark who is the CEO of rBux and Blake is the president. Life happens when you're busy making other plans - Sapna rBux is a social platform that allows anyone to market themselves for our partner companies and its performance based marketing where members get compensated according to the value that they create. It is also platform that allows you to share products online and if it leads to sales rBux will geta percentage. rBux is for people who sell products, it is for people who share products and it is for people who buy products and can get compensated in terms of financial rewards or point systems. rBux which phonetically sounds like our box stands for referral box or reward box and it's all about the concept of getting compensated for referrals which we think don't get properly compensated in our society so we create a product that will solve that problem. Essentially you can redeem them for products at any of our partner retailers or brands or you can cash them out for local currency.   The whole idea of rBux come about:   Bruce Clark is the CEO and he's the visionary and they came up with the idea around 15 years ago. He is a very successful he's a very successful retailer and essentially he noticed it as a problem that people made referrals but seldom got compensated and that's a huge problem because word of mouth sales are a great low cost way to market products and lead to sales. And so he thought if he could create a system that incentivized word of mouth sales more and then this would be a huge benefit for not only himself as a retail store owner but for others. So Blake met up with Bruce and pitched on the idea although Blake had no involvement in the creation of it. Instead, Blake helped with the execution which is arguably just as important. People who create that value share share the benefits of the value they create as well.   What excites me most about this industry: Right now we are e-commerce focused and there's a lot of products selling online. However, Blake and his team are hoping to get into the services, in store and expand to bigger ticket items such as automobiles and even real estate. But let's start with where we are now with e-commerce and products which is an unbelievably exciting industry to be in because so many products are being produced at a frequent pace.   Lessons Learned: The importance of finding out what works for you. Fire bullets and then cannonballs. It's essentially finding out what works. Trying a little bit of everything but finding out what works and then doubling down and putting more effort behind the thing that really works.   Quotes to Live By: “Sloth, like rust, consumes faster than labor wears” - Ben Franklin Action conquer fear Complexity is the enemy of execution   Productivity tool: Trello   Book Recommendation: How Google works by Eric Schmidt and Jonathan Rosenberg The First 90 Days by Michael D. Watkins The Hard Thing About Hard Things by Ben Horowitz EMyths Revisited by Michael Gerber The Digital Economy by Don Topsccott   Hotspot The Ossington Strip - Toronto Ride Cycle Club - Toronto Paris Paris - Toronto   About rBux: rBux, uses technology to empower anyone to create and develop their personal brand for social sharing.  rBux provides the online tools and education to help expand their reach and the ability to monetize their own social influence. From influencers building out their lifestyle brand to customers interested in developing passive income, rBux makes it easy to participate in social commerce. rBux started operations in 2015 and is the evolution of retail. The brainchild of Bruce Clark, owner, and operator of The Muskoka Store, a destination retail brand housing unique and useful cottage products located in Muskoka, Ontario. In his search to encourage customers to recommend products, rBux was born. rBux is social commerce, using social media and online media to cultivate social collaboration to assist in online buying and selling of products. The rBux platform was specifically designed for influencers and the evolution of Retail. By letting influencers promote products and create their own personal referral gallery, you empower them to recommend products that reflect their own lifestyle brand. With the ever-growing amount of products available online, people want to see products recommended by people, these word-of-mouth referrals create a feeling of shopping authenticity.   Connect with Blake: LinkedIn: rBux Blake Cronyn Website: Blake Cronyn and rBux.com IG: @blakeycc   Thanks again for tuning in! To help out the show: Please leave an iTunes review or post a comment below. Your help is greatly appreciated. If you know any Canadian Innovators whom you like us to feature, please feel free to email us. Listen to more innovators who are crushing it here. I’m still channeling Gary Vee! Ratings and reviews are my oxygen! Have you seen the new CanInnovate resources & tools page, that provides different offers and discounts. Who doesn’t love to save money? We are a big supporter of Unsplash.com photos. Special thanks to Artem Bali!

"The podcast is working!" Say it ain't so! This is THE LAST episode of Blake up with Cody for the foreseeable future! So Blake​ and Cody​ saved the best guest for last and finally had on Bret Meyer​! Bret takes you on a 8 year journey that begins with make out gum being passed at a karaoke bar and ends with...well you'll have to listen to find out! Plus, Cody finally sings a song Blake can guess, because it's blink-182​! This episode is brought to you by Bill Fumelle Photography​ and Minneapolis Cider Company​!

"Do they exist in a world where Walt Disney is their God?" Blake has the flu so his apartment, er we mean the "recording studio", is unsuitable for guests or podcast recording of any kind! So Blake and Cody are releasing another Blake OUT with Cody episode from behind the patreon pay wall! Listen in as Blake and Cody listen to the Disney classic, A Goofy Movie! Blake and Cody still quote the movie to this day, it's why the two stand out, see eye to eye, and another Goofy Movie reference! Be sure to see Cody in Living Room - part of Throwback Night and Cody Narrates the Audience in Song during IAAG on 2/4 and 2/18 all at HUGE Theater!

Get ready because it’s time for another brand new edition of Saturday Night Movie Sleepovers! We’re in the hot, sweaty and sticky days of summer, when the daily grind really starts to try the patience of most. So Blake and Dion are planning a little excursion down memory land as they pack into the family […]

Main Page: http://ymb.tc/e113This is episode 113 of You, Me, and BTC – your liberty and Bitcoin podcast!Today's slightly different episode comes from a Bitcoin news show that I helped host earlier this week. We were joined by Mr. Blake Miles, an ex-Green Beret who recently wrote about how the government could be actively attacking Bitcoin with social engineering.We all know that the Bitcoin community has been enduring a certain kind of civil war lately. We also know that the government probably doesn't like Bitcoin. So Blake, a man with unconventional warfare experience, argues that the bickering may have been designed by military specialists using fake social media accounts.Today, we'll ask Blake more about how this could be done, how we can stop it, whether or not we should worry about it, and much more. Your hosts are TheOneVortex, Dustin from The Bitcoin Art Gallery, and Daniel Brown. Enjoy!Leave a comment and tell us if you think the government is actively trying to undermine Bitcoin!We'd also like to thank this episode's sponsor, LuckyBit.If this Bitcoin podcast was interesting, entertaining, or anything else, please use the share buttons to let others know that it exists! Every little bit of support helps.Tips appreciated: 1Kiy8x4pwMS7RQuH7xDeVcfqeup7gUTqA

Main Page: http://ymb.tc/e113This is episode 113 of You, Me, and BTC – your liberty and Bitcoin podcast!Today’s slightly different episode comes from a Bitcoin news show that I helped host earlier this week. We were joined by Mr. Blake Miles, an ex-Green Beret who recently wrote about how the government could be actively attacking Bitcoin with social engineering.We all know that the Bitcoin community has been enduring a certain kind of civil war lately. We also know that the government probably doesn’t like Bitcoin. So Blake, a man with unconventional warfare experience, argues that the bickering may have been designed by military specialists using fake social media accounts.Today, we’ll ask Blake more about how this could be done, how we can stop it, whether or not we should worry about it, and much more. Your hosts are TheOneVortex, Dustin from The Bitcoin Art Gallery, and Daniel Brown. Enjoy!Leave a comment and tell us if you think the government is actively trying to undermine Bitcoin!We’d also like to thank this episode’s sponsor, LuckyBit.If this Bitcoin podcast was interesting, entertaining, or anything else, please use the share buttons to let others know that it exists! Every little bit of support helps.Tips appreciated: 1Kiy8x4pwMS7RQuH7xDeVcfqeup7gUTqA

Main Page: http://ymb.tc/e113This is episode 113 of You, Me, and BTC – your liberty and Bitcoin podcast!Today’s slightly different episode comes from a Bitcoin news show that I helped host earlier this week. We were joined by Mr. Blake Miles, an ex-Green Beret who recently wrote about how the government could be actively attacking Bitcoin with social engineering.We all know that the Bitcoin community has been enduring a certain kind of civil war lately. We also know that the government probably doesn’t like Bitcoin. So Blake, a man with unconventional warfare experience, argues that the bickering may have been designed by military specialists using fake social media accounts.Today, we’ll ask Blake more about how this could be done, how we can stop it, whether or not we should worry about it, and much more. Your hosts are TheOneVortex, Dustin from The Bitcoin Art Gallery, and Daniel Brown. Enjoy!Leave a comment and tell us if you think the government is actively trying to undermine Bitcoin!We’d also like to thank this episode’s sponsor, LuckyBit.If this Bitcoin podcast was interesting, entertaining, or anything else, please use the share buttons to let others know that it exists! Every little bit of support helps.Tips appreciated: 1Kiy8x4pwMS7RQuH7xDeVcfqeup7gUTqA