Podcasts about really okay

Bomani, Israel and Domonique question if the Seahawks need to pay Duane Brown and react to Michael Thomas' cryptic tweet he put out.

For this episode of The Conversation, Adam brings relationship expert Debra Fileta on the podcast to talk about her new book, Are You Really Okay. Together, Adam and Debra dive into our spiritual, emotional, mental, and physical health—getting honest about things like panic attacks, counseling in the church, and dealing with trauma. Get ready for a powerful episode that will change your relationship with your emotions for the better.

Today, we speak about the words "I'm fine" and how damaging this can be.

Are you REALLY okay? Maybe you're pretending or masking up some anxiety or depression. Maybe you don't even realize that you are and don't notice the affect it can have on your relationships. Maybe, you DO know you struggle with anxiety or depression and now it's time for you to get healthy. Today, Deb Fileta is welcomed BACK to the show as she talks about depression, anxiety, and how to navigate healing and relationships as you face these hurdles. Kait and Deb get real as they talk about the signs, symptoms, and impact mental health can have on dating.

A lot of women love to say doctors tell them its okay to smoke durinh pregnancy, but is that the truth? Thank you guys for all the love and support, as always keep listening and asking to join future podcasts, I have a lot more ideas in store & a lot more to come! Im not going anywhere. --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/cassiecage/support

hey guys thank you for your continued support and for listening to my mom mishaps! xoxo --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/momofboysang/support

May is Mental Health Awareness Month and the Mattsons invited Debra Fileta to talk about her new book, Are you Really Okay Getting Real About Who You Are, How You’re Doing, and Why It Matters. As you may or may not know, at Living Wholehearted, we are passionate about bridging the gap between mental health and clinical research and what God’s word has to say. We specialize in leaders because we know leaders are human too! According to Lifeway Research, 23% of pastors acknowledge they have personally struggled with a mental illness. 49% of pastors say they rarely or never speak to their congregation about mental illness. 65% of churchgoing family members of those with mental illness want their church to talk openly about mental illness. Historically, the church has not had the greatest reputation at responding well to mental illness or understanding the needs, oversimplifying and sometimes over spiritualizing and causing more harm.   Debra Fileta is a licensed professional counselor, podcaster, and the author of True Love Dates, Choosing Marriage, and Love in Every Season. She’s a passionate speaker about relationships and she and her husband, John, have been happily married for more than a decade. You can find Debra at www.areyoureallyokay.com   Living Wholehearted is celebrating their 10 YEAR anniversary this May!!! To celebrate, they are offering merch at 50% off. Go to the livingwholeheartedstore.com to find great deals. When you go to livingwholehearted.com and subscribe to our newsletter, you will be entered to win a copy of Debra’s book and Shrinking the Integrity Gap this month!

Have you paused for a second to check on yourself? How are you doing? Is there something you feel needs change? Sometimes we forget to do this. WHAT YOU WILL LEARN:- Why you need to check on yourself- How the current state of the world might reveal something to you- What you can do to take good care of yourselfREADY TO MAKE A DRAMATIC CHANGE IN YOUR LOVE LIFE?If you are ready to take action and control over your love life to find the man of your dreams go to http://bit.ly/SingleToSoulmate-Call to book a FREE call with one of our Love Breakthrough Specialists to assess exactly what's been holding you back in love, what is it you REALLY want, and how to get there as quickly as possible.Want to know your Love Pattern? After over 15 years of helping women find their soulmate, we have identified 5 different Love Patterns, each with different characteristics that keep you from finding true love. You can find what your love pattern is and how to overcome it by taking our quiz. Just go to http://bit.ly/STS-LovePatternQuiz  ---- Did you enjoy this episode?If so, please share it with a friend and let us know by leaving a review. To get notified when a new episode comes out, subscribe to the show on your favorite platform.

Welcome back for episode 6 and our traumas. If you are feeling a little anxious lately, trust me, we get you. On today's episode Erika and Karen dive into weird fears and anxieties during what seems like a never ending pandemic. Join us in our feels and let us know how you're doing on our instagram. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/trustmewegetyou/message

Despite my video on social media over the weekend, I am OKAY with Christmas being over! I also, talk about my daughters and what is happening for them with school as well as the new reboot coming to HBO Max!

One Piece Chapter 995 is on break until next week! So instead for this break week, the gang tries to get their foot in the door of creating a Light Novel from the ground up! We discuss familiar tropes while also creating the greatest and most absurd plot ever!

This episode is for anyone who has felt like you’re not __________ enough. Funny, quiet, inviting, loud, happy, empathetic – enough. Holley Gerth is an author and life coach I stumbled on because of her passion for building real, life-shaping relationships by leaning into who you are instead of what you feel like someone expects Continue reading → The post Making Friends When You’re An Adult and Why It’s Really Okay To Just Be You appeared first on No One Told Me Podcast.

Stop telling the children to suck it up and get over it. It's okay to have a bad day --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/darshelle9/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/darshelle9/support

This week, instead of me rambling about myself, I wanted to check in with you all and see how you are doing! Links: Email: selfcarebgirl@gmail.com Blog: https://www.selfcareblackgirls.com/ Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/selfcareblackgirls Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/selfcareblackgirls/ Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/selfcareblackgirls Twitter: https://twitter.com/selfcarebgirls

What had me talking to cows The decisions I’m facing and what has me feeling nervous Re-connecting with a former mentor of mine The downside of my extreme sunshine The freedom of genuine yeses and nos The completely natural thing anyone would bump into as they’re growing Quotables “My marketing instincts are poor.” “My work is to help them get who they are out into the world.” “I wasn’t seeing any problem at all. I was like that’s the way you do things. You gotta go along. You gotta be nice.” “I wasn’t really listening to that truth inside of myself about what I was really wanting.” “I was trying to positive my way out of feeling what I actually felt.” “Any emotion that you’re feeling, any experience that you’re having, it’s not wrong to have.” “We’re all on a journey. We’re all learning. We’re all doing the best we can.”

-- Coronavirus hits the market hard, especially travel stocks -- The RBA, US Fed and Bank of Canada do their best to prop up confidence -- What does it all mean for our banks; and -- We dip into the Fool mailbag

Hi everyone, and thank you for tuning in to another episode of the We Make Books Podcast - A podcast about writing, publishing, and everything in between! This week is a double header and it’s all about accolades!  First we take a question from one of our Patreon subscribers and talk about starred reviews. What are they, how do you get them, and why is that star such a big deal?  Then it’s on to our second topic: Awards!  They’re pretty awesome if you can get one, but how do you qualify for one and exactly how important to your career are these?  Just keep in mind here, the word of the week is “Subjective”. We Make Books is hosted by Rekka Jay and Kaelyn Considine; Rekka is a published author and Kaelyn is an editor and together they are going to take you through what goes into getting a book out of your head, on to paper, in to the hands of a publisher, and finally on to book store shelves. We Make Books is a podcast for writers and publishers, by writers and publishers and we want to hear from our listeners! Hit us up on our social media, linked below, and send us your questions, comments, concerns, the award you most wish you could win during your life, real or imagined! We hope you enjoy We Make Books! Twitter: @WMBCast  |  @KindofKaelyn  |  @BittyBittyZap Instagram: @WMBCast  Patreon.com/WMBCast   Rekka (00:00): So welcome back to another episode of we make books, a podcast about writing, publishing and everything in between. And then sometimes you publish your book and you want people to look at it and you have to figure out how to get them to look at it. And so sometimes it's after the publishing, so sometimes beyond. Kaelyn (00:17): Yeah. So, um, I'm Kaelyn, I'm the acquisitions editor for Parvus Press. Rekka (00:22): I'm Rekka and I'm fired. And I write science fiction and fantasy is RJ theater. Kaelyn (00:28): I'm Kaelyn and I want to go to bed. Rekka (00:30): Yeah, we've been doing this all day. We're backing up some episodes because we both have some travel coming up and we weren't sure when we get together again. So we have gotten to the point of being entirely punchy where, um, luckily this, this clip for the beginning is the last bit we're recording for today. Kaelyn (00:47): But yeah. Um, so this episode, uh, actually came to us from one of our, uh, question from one of our Patreon users, um, who was asking about starred reviews. And that kind of then also segwayed into other things that are given out to especially awesome books, which was awards as we're kind of approaching awards season. Uh, so this, this is a little bit of a split episode. We're gonna talk about starred reviews and industry reviews and then we're gonna talk about awards, Rekka (01:14): But we chose them to fill in the same episode because they are somewhat related in that, you know, you are being, you know, critically reviewed and um, and judged by an outside party who is considered an authority of some sort, whether that's a voting committee, a voting, um, membership or a reviewer for a publication that deals solely with, you know, reviewing books and stuff. Kaelyn (01:40): Exactly. So, um, you know, this is just kind of, I won't say a lot of insider knowledge, but just like a little explanation about some things that are going on behind all of this. Um, you know, in terms of the book reviews, uh, you know, trade publications and who's reviewing these and with the awards, um, we specifically talk about a couple that are relevant to our genre. Rekka (02:06): Our genra specifically. Kaelyn (02:06): Yes. Um, and you know what you have to do to qualify for some of these and what you have to do to be a voting member. So, um, anyway, uh, take a listen as always, we hope you enjoy. And as always, if you have questions, send them to us. Rekka (02:19): Absolutely. We love to answer listener questions because we want to know what gaps we haven't filled in yet. Um, sometimes we look into - Kaelyn (02:26): We may do a whole episode about it. Rekka (02:28): Yeah, we do. Yeah. But sometimes we look at each other and we're like, so what are we talking about this time? And like, you know what, we don't have to decide cause someone asked us a question. So here we go. So we appreciate questions and comments and interaction online. It's, it's all great and we, we really do love it. So thank you for that. And um, in our, to express our thanks. Here's an episode, Kaelyn (03:03): Just jotting stuff down. Rekka (03:03): Keep that in mind, folks. She always takes notes and she never forgets. Kaelyn (03:10): Oh, that's why I write stuff down, written down somewhere. Rekka (03:13): It's not that she hasn't forgotten, but she's going to uncover that note someday and realize that's the thing that you said. So watch what you say. Kaelyn (03:19): Yeah. I, um, something I don't think I've ever brought up on this. I spent three years in college as like the senior student archivist for my university. So I'm very into records Rekka (03:33): Archives are her jam. Kaelyn (03:36): Archives are awesome. They're, you know, they're fun, they're full, full, great stuff. Uh, speaking of things full of great stuff. Rekka (03:42): Hey, I like that segue. It's not a segue if you call attention to it. I've, I've come to understand, Kaelyn (03:47): Oh, that just seems like it's, yeah, that's unfair. Rekka (03:49): That's, yeah, that's not fair. I want to be able to recognize this. That's why you get a gong. So you don't actually say, Hey, nice segue. You just, it just rang a little. Kaelyn (03:57): . Is there like a noise we can insert, you know, to indicate that there's a segue. Okay. Rekka (04:03): You can come up with, we'll do a nice like page flip like, okay. Um, so today's episode topics starts with a question suggested by one of our patrons on patreon.com/WMBcast and Robert D McAdams who says we do not have to give him credit for the question, but we just did anyway. Asks what is a starred review? So we've touched on this in passing in a previous episode, which I'm sure Robert heard, um, when we talked about reviews in general, but a starred review is a very specific term. These are not reviews that come with star ratings like you might find on Amazon. Like, yes, there are stars, but that's not what we're talking about. So what is Kaelyn? A starred review? Kaelyn (04:48): Well, so before we get into that, um, and as Rekka said, we talked about this in the episode, we did all about reviews. Uh, the difference between, you know, reader reviews on good reads and Amazon and industry reviews. Industry reviews are professional trade publications, or you might hear them called the traits and they are exactly what they sound like. People send advanced copies of books to them before publication and there are people there that read them and write a few hundred words on them. Three to maybe 400. This is that - Rekka (05:20): If that. Kaelyn (05:21): Yeah, this is not, this is not going to be a long multiple page insightful exploration of this book Rekka (05:27): Cause they know let's be real. All you wanted was the star review. Kaelyn (05:33): Um, no, but even just general positive review. So there are four major trade publications. I'll start with the most, you know, coveted one publisher's weekly. A publisher's weekly is almost 150 years old. Um, they've been around for a very long time. It's a magazine that you can subscribe to or you can actually pick up on new stands in New York city. Rekka (05:56): Wow. Really? Kaelyn (05:57): Yeah, well publishers weekly is in New York city there. Um - Rekka (05:59): So they distribute locally. Kaelyn (06:01): Yup. So you can actually go to newsstands in New York city and pick up publishers weekly. Rekka (06:05): I have never tried to do that. Kaelyn (06:07): You can have it mailed to you or you can get it online. Of course there's online subscriptions. Every issue, they review a couple of hundred books, um, that are coming out. And if there is a book that they particularly like, um, it is exemplary, uh, they want to denote this book of being as particularly high quality, uh, either in writing or story or what the book accomplishes if someone there, you know, and the process when, how this happens is a little, no one's really quite sure. But anyway, yeah. Rekka (06:45): It's behind a curtain. Kaelyn (06:45): Um, they'll give it a star and that is just, it's a stamp that says we think this book is excellent. How many books do you think every year get a starred review from publishers weekly? What would you say? Rekka (06:59): Is it, is it guaranteed to be one per issue or a certain number per issue? Kaelyn (07:03): There's no guarantee for anything. Rekka (07:04): So there may be an issue where they don't start one at all. Kaelyn (07:07): Correct. They are in no way, shape or form obligated to give out a star. You only earn it on merit. Rekka (07:12): So the idea being this is, you did say coveted, but we're talking extremely coveted and they know you want it. Kaelyn (07:17): Yes. So how many do you think approximately they start in a year? Rekka (07:22): I'm gonna say - Kaelyn (07:23): Keep in mind. They will review thousands and thousands of books. Rekka (07:26): 100? Kaelyn (07:26): About 200. Rekka (07:27): Yeah. Okay. Kaelyn (07:28): Um, you know, sometimes it's a little more, sometimes it's a little less, but that's what they're, they're averaging. Rekka (07:33): See, I lowered it because I'm assuming that all these readers are just freaking sick of books. Kaelyn (07:39): Um, so publishers weekly, uh, Kirkus is kind of the, um, most close competitor of, uh, of publishers weekly. Here's the big difference between them. Uh, publisher's weekly also has like some industry gossip and some forecast kind of things in it. Kirkus is no gossip. It's a very straight forward, you know, here's the book. Here's the reveal. I'm a starred review from Kirkus is also still fantastic. Rekka (08:03): Yup. Kaelyn (08:04): Um, library journal is by the same sister, uh, company as publisher weekly. Uh, library journal, however, as its name implies, is focused more towards libraries. Um, if you're wondering, well why is that different? It's because they're looking at this more from the educational side of the book. Do you think this is a valuable thing that we want to buy? Will people be asking for it? Um, finally there's Booklist a Booklist is perhaps the most kind of all of these. Um, from, you know, things I've read and heard editors and writers at Booklist are encouraged to find something nice to nice to say about the book publishers weekly and Kirk is hold no such compunction. Rekka (08:49): Yes. In fact, sometimes it feels as though they really enjoy taking people to task for things they don't enjoy. Kaelyn (08:56): Yes. Um, library journal tends to be a little more academic and a little more thumbs up, thumbs down. Rekka (09:02): Objective. Kaelyn (09:03): Yeah. This is good for this. It is not good for, this would not recommend for X, Y and Z recommend for, yeah. You know what, they're gonna give you both sides. Rekka (09:10): Like watch out for this, but you might enjoy it if you like this. Kaelyn (09:13): Getting a star in publisher's weekly and Kirkus is a big fucking deal. Rekka (09:19): Um, so it's almost predictive of how your book is going to succeed or not, but not accurately predictive. Let's just say across the board. If you don't get a starred review or you don't get a review at all, it does not mean that your book will not do well. But people do pay attention to which reviews are starred. And at the same time, if they are willing to give it a star, it's because they're not afraid to stick their neck out about how much they like your book. Kaelyn (09:26): Yep. So now you're probably wondering, well, who are these, these kingmakers who are the gods sitting on top of the mountain that, um, decide these things? Um, the answer is a little bit of everyone. Um, there's going to be, you know, published authors, um, editors, school teachers, librarians, people that are involved in this, so hadn't, and you may be going like, okay, well what makes them qualified to do this? A lot of times the reviewers are broken up by subject, by genre, by category, and have some kind of expertise in that area. It could be anything from, I've read extensively about this particular thing and you have to keep in mind, I know we talk about genre fiction a lot on this show. They're reviewing everything, you know, biographies. Rekka (10:30): I'm just about to point that out. Kaelyn (10:31): Yeah, true crime, Rekka (10:32): Everything. Historical fiction, historical documentation style. Kaelyn (10:37): Um, there are viewing everything. So maybe your history teacher, well then you get to read, um, you know, the latest biography of James Madison. Uh, maybe you were in the military, so you get to read the most recent military fiction that you know, comes out. Rekka (10:53): So what you're saying is they're not just sending these out to anyone randomly and haphazardly. Kaelyn (10:58): They're focused with who receives these that said, look, reviews are subjective. You know, it's, um, and again, is there a system of checks and balances? Maybe? Probably. Hopefully. Rekka (11:08): Hopefully. Kaelyn (11:13): You know, I think a lot of people think like, Oh, it's just, you know, college students and whatever. It's really not. They're pretty from everything, you know, I understand they're, they're pretty good about matching the books to the readers, making sure that the people that read these are people that are actually gonna enjoy that kind of book. Now, um, one thing that I will explain, I'm gonna use publisher's weekly as the example for this because they are kind of the, uh, the gold standard here, if you will. Um, so you might be thinking like, well, I have a book that I'm self publishing. Can I just send it over to get a review? Uh, you can't. Um, the reason for this is an - Rekka (11:45): It is gatekeeping. Kaelyn (11:47): It is gatekeeping. Yeah. You need to have the book be distributed. So even if you are with a publisher that only does eBooks, they're still not going to look at it. The book needs to be distributed through a traditional distributor. Rekka (12:02): If your indie publisher only does print on demand through KTP or IngramSpark, which is not like traditional distribution, they're not going to look at it. Kaelyn (12:14): Um, also, and this is where I'm, I start to get a little, uh, Rekka (12:19): Hot under the collar. Kaelyn (12:20): Get my feathers ruffled a little bit is when you go to the, um, the submissions guidelines pages on these, they'll give you a whole list of like, things they want to know. You know, a lot of it is things that you should obviously include, like release date information about the - Rekka (12:36): Targeted audience. Kaelyn (12:37): Targeted audience, that kind of important stuff. They'll also want to know how much are you spending on the marketing campaign? And for those of you who just jumped up out of your seat and went, are you kidding me? No, I'm not. Um, there is absolutely inside circles within this. If you don't think that Amazon and Barnes and noble pay publishers weekly for certain things, you're out of your mind. They do. Um, if you don't think that major publishing houses do things to guarantee eyes on copies of this, they do. Now, can they guarantee a favorable review? Absolutely not. Rekka (13:20): Nope. Kaelyn (13:20): Believe me, they have, you know, I'm sure you can probably find websites that just collect, you know, quote unquote - Rekka (13:27): Devastating reviews. Kaelyn (13:29): You know, and I mean, I've, I've seen some of them. There's definitely, you know, people have written some truly scathing things. Rekka (13:35): Yes. I meant devastating. Kaelyn (13:58): Yeah. About, about people's books. Um, so the other thing to keep in mind is a lot of people that do this are paid kind of on a per review basis. They're definitely, you know, full time staff there and everything. But when you have this many books come in, you don't have that many people sitting in an office just reading these. Um, they get sent out to reviewers who aren't necessarily at the office, read them in their time and then turn in the review. Rekka (14:05): So the people are getting paid on a per view basis, which means they're motivated to read fast and submit as many as possible. Kaelyn (14:13): Do not think that even if you had a thousand people sitting in a room whose only job was to care with, to read every book that came in, they would not get through the pile they receive. They don't have time to read every single word very carefully. Um, so it's, you know, it's, it's a good group of people who truly enjoy what they're doing because they're not making a fortune off of this. Rekka (14:37): Right. Um, but, but they do make more if they get through more books and review more. Kaelyn (14:41): Yeah, exactly. So, um, what, you know is a starred review important, important is not the right word. Nice is a good word. Rekka (14:49): Um, is there a benefit to receiving a starred review? Kaelyn (14:54): Absolutely, it's going to get more attention. Um, it will, you know, it will make other, uh, publications and people within the industry set up and pay attention to it. You're a publisher and you get to go online and talk about how you got to start review. Rekka (15:10): Yup. Other, it's more content you can tweet. Kaelyn (15:12): Other outlets will specifically pay attention to it. Rekka (15:15): Is it the end of the world if you don't get one. Kaelyn (15:17): Absolutely not because most books don't. Rekka (15:19): Right. Kaelyn (15:19): 90 something percent of them do not. Um, then there are books that I have personally read that got starred reviews and I was like, why? Really? Okay. And it's not that they were bad, it was just that, you know, and, but that could just be that whoever it wasn't reviewing it was particularly enjoyed. Rekka (15:40): Interested in that one. Kaelyn (15:40): Yeah. Rekka (15:41): I mean it is, no matter what you try to do at the end of the day, it is subjective. Kaelyn (15:45): It is subjective. Um, a starred review is you did an extra good job. Rekka (15:51): We really, really are excited that you're releasing this into the world. So can, if you get a, a positive review but it's not starred, it's still real helpful. You can still tweet that content. You can still add that blurb to your, if there's a usable blurb in it, you can still add that to your um copy. Kaelyn (16:10): Anytime somebody reviews your book and publishes it, that review is yours. Now you can quote it, you can put it on the book. You can do, you know, that is them offering that into the world for you to use. Rekka (16:22): Yeah. Kaelyn (16:22): Um, so if you have a pog- you know, you'll see a lot of books you pick up that say, uh, you know, an astounding tour de force author, you know, completely redefines the genre or whatever and it'll just say such and such publisher's weekly. Rekka (16:39): Yup. Kaelyn (16:39): And that's, you know, that's a great thing to have if you have a review and it's not starred, but it's still good review. That's great. Most authors do not or never will have a starred review. It's like winning an Oscar, you know. Rekka (16:55): And by its rarity makes it more valuable, exactly why they are going to be invested in not giving them out to everybody, which means the difference between this and an Oscar is they don't have to give out one of these. Kaelyn (17:07): Right. Rekka (17:08): And the 200 that you mentioned are across all genre. So how many books are coming out in your specific genre each year or each, you know, yes. A year. How many books are coming out in your specific genre each year is they're only going to get a slice of those and those aren't promised to be distributed evenly across the genre. It might be a big year for biographies and you're just out of luck. Kaelyn (17:28): Yup. Yeah. So, um, start reviews are great if you get one. They are by no stretch of the imagination, the end of the world if you don't. So, you know, before we wrap that up, um, I was talking a lot about publishers weekly and I mentioned Kirkus as kind of being, you know, the counterpart to publisher's weekly. Just a couple, you know, things to clarify real quick. Um, about Kirkus and a few things that are unique about them. Um, as I'd mentioned, a, uh, publisher's weekly and library journal are a sister publications. They're both owned by Reed business organization, which puts out a whole bunch of different trade magazines. Like they put a variety. Rekka (18:11): Okay. Kaelyn (18:11): Too for instance. Rekka (18:11): Yeah. Kaelyn (18:23): Um, these are glossy magazine type things. They're going to have pictures of the cover and you know, the thing in nice font and everything Kirkus is not glossy. It's like newspaper reprint paper. There's no pictures. It's black and white and it's just the title, the author, the review. Yeah. Here's the thing about Kirkus. Um, it costs money to get them to review your book. It's over $400. Why? Because Kirkus is kind of considering themselves a cut above. Uh, they really try to be objective, I guess, which I'm not sure how that works when you're asking for money. Rekka (18:52): Yeah. Kaelyn (18:53): Well, like I had mentioned, you know, like publisher's weekly has like, you know, they do some like industry gossip and that kinds of Kirkus it doesn't do that. It's very - Rekka (19:00): Right, they're trying to leave out everything, but the, what they think you are, you want out of their publication, they have a format that the reviews follow. That's pretty consistent so that you know what you're getting when you ask for a review. Just you don't know what they're going to think of it. Kaelyn (19:17): Yeah. So here's a, just an, another little thing about Kirkus. Kirkus had a controversial couple of years ago. Uh, they took back a star on a book. Rekka (19:29): Yup. Kaelyn (19:30): Um, I won't mention the book exactly. Um, they - Rekka (19:35): It's easy to find. Kaelyn (19:36): It's very easy to find. Yeah. They gave it a starred review and then there, I mean - Rekka (19:42): There was a backlash. Kaelyn (19:43): There was backlash. Um, it was social backlash and Kirkus maybe not being as sensitive towards some things as they should have and they took it back. To my knowledge, that's the only time that's ever happened. Rekka (19:57): Yeah. It's the only one mentioned on the Wikipedia page about Kirkus. So, um, hopefully it doesn't happen again. Maybe it's taught them to be more careful so that it doesn't have to happen. Kaelyn (20:06): I mean, across trade publications in general. To my knowledge, and I did look for this. I could not find another instance of that ever happening. Rekka (20:14): Okay. Kaelyn (20:15): Um, if, if you know of one, let us know. Rekka (20:18): @WMBcast on Twitter and Instagram and yeah. Um, yeah, the, I cannot imagine what it felt like to be an author who believed they received a star review and then had it rescinded because it was determined that their book made them a bad human. Yeah. Um, I'm not saying I agree or disagree with the decision because I really don't, I don't know the book, but as an author, I cannot imagine how heartbreaking that must be. Yeah. So hopefully everyone's learned their lesson and this won't have to happen again, but it probably will in this day and age, honestly. Kaelyn (20:52): Yeah. Um, to be honest with you, I'm surprised it took that long for it to happen. Um, this was two years ago, I think, 2017 that this happened. Um, and it was, you know, it was big news when it happened. Rekka (21:06): Um, so if you bring it up, I'm sure you could get people heated up over even now. Kaelyn (21:09): Oh God. So don't. Rekka (21:10): Don't do that. Don't do it. Um, but we only bring it up because it does show that there is historical precedent for a star being removed, removed after someone quote unquote earned it. Kaelyn (21:20): Yeah. So that it just kinda goes to show that, you know, like, yes, review magazines are supposed to kind of be the authority, the authority, and they are supposed to have the ability to review at their discretion, but sometimes they do have to take other things into consideration after they've already done that. Rekka (21:41): Yep. Kaelyn (21:41): Um, so anyway, start reviews. Um, they're, they're great if you can get them. If not, it is in no way, shape or form the end of the world or your writing career in that order. Rekka (21:53): But that is what I started review is to answer your question, Robert, that's, um, that's what they are. That's how they're different from the, uh, reader reviews and maybe peer reviews that you might get from other authors. Um, or even, you know, just great blurbs from other people who might be, you know, like if you're writing a science fiction story like the Martian and an astronaut gave you a review and astronaut can give you an excellent review and it might look great on your cover, but it does not qualify as a starred review. Kaelyn (22:21): Yup. So, um, there you go. Yeah. Rekka (22:24): And Kaelyn can, can I have an astronaut reviewing my book? Kaelyn (22:27): Absolutely. Rekka (22:28): Let's get one get that arranged would ya please? Awesome. So something else, let's just speaking of accolades, accolades and uh, pinning your dreams to receiving one. Yes, it's award season as we record this. Meaning there are a lot of authors out there, very hopeful that their book might gain notice and end up shortlisted for a literary award within there's genre. Kaelyn (22:56): I'm going to qualify all of this by saying I am going to do everything I can to be positive Rekka (23:04): Hold back feelings. Kaelyn (23:04): Be positive. New Speaker (23:07): Kaelyn has some feelings about awards. Kaelyn (23:08): Well, here's the thing. They're great. It really is like wonderful. Rekka (23:13): As you were just saying it's fantastic if you get one. Kaelyn (23:16): Yes. Rekka (23:16): It is not the end of your career or a reflection of you as a human being or writer if you don't. Kaelyn (23:23): Yeah. So let's, uh, let's real quick talk about some awards now. We, you know, as we say frequently on this, uh, we, we both work in genre fiction, um, specifically science fiction and fantasy. Um, that said there are a lot of awards out there that can range to something small and local to the Nobel prize in literature, which I don't think they give out for just one book. You've got to have a pretty stellar career Rekka (23:51): Yeah. That's, that's more lifetime achievement award than a specific project. Um, unlike the Nobel prize for science where you might get it for one project and project for, if you're going to be a writer, you're not going to cure cancer with one book. Kaelyn (24:07): I don't think that's humanly possible unless it's a book on how to cure cancer. Rekka (24:13): Well, maybe you never can tell. Um, there's a lot of money in pharmaceuticals to treating people with cancer. You know, there's, there are some players behind those curtains moving against you. But, um, yeah, so the, the awards we're talking about are the annual awards that review much like tax seasons, the years prior activity in that genre, and someone needs to nominate you and enough people need to nominate you to put you toward the top of the list, which then is skimmed very, very much just the top of that list gets put on the ballot. Kaelyn (24:52): Yeah, there's usually. Well, it's like any award thing, you know, there's going to be five, maybe six choices in a category. Um, so typically what you'll find in, uh, industry, and this is, I'm, I'm fairly sure this is true across genres. There's association, there's guilds, there's, um, you know, groups that award these things. You have to be a member to vote in them. Rekka (25:17): But not a member usually to be nominated. Kaelyn (25:20): No. Um, because a lot of times to qualify for membership for these things, you might not be at that stage in your career yet. Um, but they, not all of them are just open to the general public. Some of them are the Hugo's - Rekka (25:33): The Hugo's are open to the general public . Kaelyn (25:34): - are open to the general public, um, the nebulas are not. Um, so just real quick, uh, we're talking specifically about the nebulas which are given out by the, uh, by SFWA, the science fiction and fantasy writers of America. So that is, um, American and therefore fairly English speaking centric. Uh, the Hugo's are also pretty English-speaking. Rekka (25:53): Yes. Though that is a global, but it is a global organization. The conference itself pops about the world each year. Um, and we say it's open to the public. You do have to pay to become a member for the year in which you want to vote. But there is no qualification like royalties or book sales or anything like that like there is with SFWA. Kaelyn (26:14): Yup. So SFWA is more of a professional organization because they are the science fiction and fantasy writers of America. Um, they are ma, they are very much geared towards like if anyone listening has ever gone to the nebulous conference. Um, a lot of the panels and discussions are career oriented. Um, the Hugo's are a little bit more readership oriented. Um, so that's, you know, that's just a, that's just a difference in a distinguishing point there. Uh, that said, you're going to see a lot of the people nominated across both of them. Rekka (26:45): Yes. The list will look very familiar across them because the people who are nominating tend to be members of more than just one. Yeah. It's like also they let's, you know, get right down to where we're going with this. The books are stand out in their category before they're nominated. Kaelyn (27:04): Yeah. It's kind of like the Oscars and the golden Globes and stuff. You know, the good stuff is the good stuff that's going to be already know what's going up there before anyone else finishes the year out with their own stuff. Now there's of course, all kinds of literary awards given out. There's awards that are specifically, you know, for children's books. Uh, there's awards for every genre and group is going to have their own awards that they give out. Um, you can go find lists of these online if it's something that you're interested in. Here is where, um, I get a little cynical with these things. Uh, one is that again, sometimes these can be hard to get nominated for if you're not traditionally published. Rekka (27:40): Right. Kaelyn (27:54): Um, this is, you know, I won't beat around the Bush here. This isn't a secret. You can go online and find out this kind of stuff easily. If you're self published, you're going to have a really hard time being taken seriously in some of these communities. It's getting better, but it's still not quite to where it, I personally think it should. Rekka (27:59): Right. Just like your family likes to hold your holiday traditions in a certain way, people do not like to let go of what they're comfortable with. And a lot of these associations were going back to their beginnings, traditionally published authors, and they saw no reason to change it yet. Kaelyn (28:18): So that's very, so like for instance, with SFWA it can be very hard to get into SFWA because you have to either have a job relevant to the industry and be recommended by a certain number of people. They need to actually write you a letter of recommendation to be admitted. Or to qualify as an author, you have to have a certain number of words published and have made a certain amount off of them in a year. Rekka (28:46): Yup. Single calendar year. Kaelyn (28:50): In a single calendar year. Um, it's not an absurdly difficult to reach some of money. Rekka (28:56): It's not impossible. And if your book takes off, even just moderately successful, you probably going to get there. Kaelyn (29:02): But if you're not a fulltime self-publishing author, it's hard. Yeah, you can go look up all the SFWA qualification stuff, but in their defense, it is a professional organization. Their goal is not when you're not here to have members that are trying to become authors. We are an established group of authors and writers already, right. Rekka (29:26): Unlike the RWA, which has gone through its own, um, metamorphosis this year, which you can find out about elsewhere if you haven't already. But, um, they have traditionally invited in aspiring authors as well as published authors. Kaelyn (29:41): Now, all of this that I'm saying about SFWA, SFWA is a fantastic organization. Um, they are an excellent resource for, you know, even if you're not a published author and you're trying to - Rekka (29:53): You're welcome to come to the nebulas whether or not you remember anyone can, can show up. Kaelyn (29:58): Um, they have a lot of good resources that, and people that they can put you in touch with. Um, they have a really good legal team that helps people with various, you know, issues that they may come up against. Rekka (30:11): Yup. There's a, a service just called a writer beware, which alerts people in a single location where, um, they can find out like, Hey, you want to watch out for this company? They have bad practices. You, you know, their contracts are gotchas and all this kind of stuff and, and you can look out for that stuff. Kaelyn (30:51): Um, whether or not you're a member, that's, that's all public information on their website. So they have a lot of great resources for people and, um, they have become sort of a, you know, a beacon to which science fiction and fantasy writers will flock. Yeah. And they're, um, they're, I know a lot of people in it. They're very nice people. Um, you know, that said, just be aware that if you are self published, it's - Rekka (30:59): It's more challenging. It's more challenging to gain entry to gain entry into find yourself particularly welcomed there. Um, and it's even more challenging to get nominated for something there. Um, the Hugo's, I would even say it's also very challenging with that. So back to, you know, so back to the awards, the things you're, you know, it's, think of the typical kind of awards you're going to get. Best short fiction, best novel, best novella, novelette, um, best, all of the various writings. Kaelyn (31:27): Now, um, game writers are starting to get more recognition. So there's a game writing award. There are sort of lifetime achievements, uh, service awards, things like that. Rekka (31:37): And then you, you have the big one, which is, you know, best novel, a novel of the year. Kaelyn (31:41): That's the best picture standing, whatever. Rekka (31:44): Um, there are career marker ones. Like, um, the beginning of a career is the outstanding award for science fiction. Um, from the Hugo, um, awards. You know, the process of getting nominated. It's, it's really like, it's exactly the way you'd get nominated for most things. You submit, there's going to be a short list that comes out within that short list. The list will be shortened further and those will be the finalists. Kaelyn (32:10): Yeah. So, um, that's another thing that it's like, it's a great feather in your cap if you have it. Most people will go through their lives without having one, one of these. And that does not mean they had to not have a successful writing career. Rekka (32:40): Right. You're going to get a temporary uptick from winning these awards. It is not going to be career lasting. Now, if you somehow manage to sweep these awards and keep getting them year after year, then that's great. But then, I mean, then people are going to start rooting against you to see you and seated by some new up and comer because you know, you've been boring them by being the predictable winner every year. Kaelyn (32:45): Um, so, you know, that's just a little about awards. It's, you know, we were kind of like, okay, well we had a question about starred reviews in the industry. I don't think we could do a full episode of that. And we were like, you know, what's also a nice thing to have but not a full episodes worth is you know, industry awards. Rekka (32:57): Um, you know, the fact is that your book for an award like that needs to have hype before it gets nominated. So the nomination is not going to hype your book because your book has already hyped people nominated because they already know about it and have already read it. So it's not like each nomination is um, you know, guaranteed new reader or anything like that on the level. Kaelyn (33:20): It's very difficult to get nominated for one of these. You could have written and outstanding book. I know someone who got a starred review for their book that is probably not going to be nominated for anything this year. Rekka (33:38): There are a lot of books released every year and the list is short and it really does come down to who do you know that can nominate you and is willing to or wants to. Um, you know, it's, it's a numbers game. It really is because there's so many awards. Lots, you know, nomination slots and there's way more books than that. And it really comes down to, you know, unlike the numbers game of like, um, market submissions and stuff like that for publications. This is also like, you've, you've got to already know enough people are fanatic for your book that, um, they're going to vote for it. Kaelyn (34:16): Yeah. And it's like, I mean, I know I keep referencing the Oscars, but like, you know, the Academy awards, people don't just watch a bunch of movies and then decide they like this one. There's marketing campaigns and you gotta take out ads and it's very personal and who, you know, and, um, it's almost like trying to get Senate votes. It's a four year consideration type thing. Um, you know, books, obviously it's not, it's not the same kind of setup. It takes a lot longer to get for a book than it does through a movie. Rekka (34:47): But and that's tricky because like, you know, if I look at, uh, an awards nomination list and say, I know I'm going to be voting because I'm a member of that year of, of that association, I look at that list and I don't go, okay, I guess I gotta read all of these and then vote. Yeah. I vote for the one that I did read and enjoyed. Yeah. If I have, you know, if I had time, I'd absolutely read the rest of them, but like I don't always have the time. Yeah. So I'm going to vote for the one that I read and enjoyed, not knowing whether I would have enjoyed some of the others on the list more or that they are more or less worthy. Like it's, it's, Ooh, I know that name. Kaelyn (35:26): It's, look, it's like the reviews. I mean, this, this episode is about subjective things. Very subjective. This is, you know, and I don't think I've ever seen books. I didn't like nominated or win anything. It's not that the books that are getting nominated, it's, you know, because a lot of people know this person or knew about the book and the book wasn't good and they got nominated. Rekka (35:50): Right. And I've seen books that I have read that I would have said, okay, well that book's just not for me. But that doesn't mean the book was bad. Kaelyn (35:59): Exactly. Yeah. And yeah, I think that's an important part of understanding the subjective nature of this in anything with this as just because the book, not every book is meant for you. Um, you know, we talk a lot about your target demographics and audiences and things, and there's nothing wrong with taking a step back and saying the writing is good. I just can't get behind the plot or this character - Rekka (36:20): Or I just, this doesn't appeal to that trope that for whatever reason, even though it's very popular. Kaelyn (36:26): Yeah. Not every book nominated is going to be something that you were in love with. You may not have heard of some of the books that were nominated just because they didn't cross your path. Um, but I think their general, you know, Rekka (36:36): The lists are usually good. It doesn't look like someone bought their way on no, but, but they have and that's because let's like, okay, just straight talk. A lot of books come out every year and a lot of them are really good. Kaelyn (36:51): Yup. And things tend to not get published if they're really bad. Rekka (36:56): I mean not always, but the evidence is there to suggest that the people who pick and purchase books know what they're doing. Yeah. Um, and I'm not just saying that cause I'm in the room with one of them. Kaelyn (37:07): Um, I know what I'm doing? Rekka (37:12): Um, but the fact is there are excellent books out there and everybody who gets published deserves to be published with, you know, asterisk on that I'm sure. But like I mean that with my heart, like if you were a writer and you, and you do this cause you love it and you work very hard and you do everything you can then like you've already done it. Yeah. Like, who cares if you're going to get an award to sit on your mantle and let me tell you, nobody wants to see you posting a photo of that to social media every day and in a month they're going to forget that you want, so don't Kaelyn (37:44): worry about it. Yeah. It's, it's one of those things that if it happens in your career, that's amazing. If it doesn't, that doesn't mean you're not a success. Rekka (37:52): Right. Or if you win it, that's awesome. You deserved it. You might also have wanted if the right people also deserve it, you might also deserve it. Yeah. I wish we could give them out like candy, but that's not how these things work. Kaelyn (38:05): Yeah. So, um, anyway, you know, that's just, that's kind of the episode of subjectiveness. Rekka (38:11): Um, um, don't pin your dreams on someone else's opinion. Kaelyn (38:15): Oh yeah. I like that. Rekka (38:16): You like that one. Okay. There's the title, but um, yeah, I, I think they combine well into the same episode because they are, they are bingo card goals. Kaelyn (38:26): It's awesome. If you got one, do not be hard on yourself. Rekka (38:30): If you have, if you haven't yet, even at the end of a very long career, you'll probably have great sales, especially if you made a full career event, but you may never get one of these things. And that's just the way that these dominoes fall. Kaelyn (38:36): Yeah. Hey, so speaking of accolades and uh, you know, giving out good stuff to people, uh, you can give us a review online. Rekka (38:51): Yes. And we will treasure it as though it were a star from Kirkus or a pretty statue of a rocket ship. Kaelyn (38:57): We would prefer five stars though, not just one. Rekka (39:00): Correct. I very much agree with that statement. Kaelyn (39:05): So yeah, if you can drop us a, a review online, that's great. Rekka (39:08): You know, speaking of things that are good and draw your attention to stuff, uh, you know, it just, it helps with, you know, feed the algorithms and get us in front of more people. And when someone's searching for writing podcasts, they'll go, Oh, well this one gets starred reviews regularly. Kaelyn (39:22): Yup. Rekka (39:23): You can find us on Apple podcasts or iTunes, depending on your Mac iOS system, you can find us on, um, all the various places that you can aggregate your podcasts for your listening enjoyment such as Spotify and, and Google play and all those others. So, um, we want to be convenient for you, but it would be super convenient for us if you could leave that review on Apple podcasts or Apple iTunes just to get them all in one spot one way or another. Unfortunately, that's, we all serve at the altar of Apple at Steve jobs. Um, so we would appreciate that. Um, you can also join in conversation with us at WMB cast on Twitter or Instagram and you can find the entire archive of all our past episodes at WMB, cast.com. Kaelyn (40:11): So Robert, thanks for the question. Um, you know, anyone else there that has questions they'd like to send us? Obviously we, you know, we do take the time to answer them. We pay attention to those things. Rekka (40:21): No question is too small for us to make a whole episode or half of one or, or come up with a way to peg on. Kaelyn (40:27): Yep. We'll do it. Thanks for listening everyone, and we'll see you in two weeks. New Speaker (40:27):    

In this episode of Keep It Short, a short story discussion podcast, Casey and Larry jump into Keep It Short 20: Ray Bradbury's "The Veldt" and "Zero Hour" contemplate how our kids might kill us. Sound fun? Really? Okay. Let's go!

In this episode of Keep It Short, a short story discussion podcast, Casey and Larry jump into Keep It Short 19: Joseph O'Neill's "The Flier" from The New Yorker and consider our inconsequential superpowers. Sound fun? Really? Okay. Let's go! https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/11/11/the-flier

In this episode of Keep It Short, a short story discussion podcast, Casey and Larry jump into Keep It Short 18: Paul Tremblay's "The Last Conversation" from Amazon's Forward series and contemplate how far we'd go to rekindle the love of our dead departed. Sound fun? Really? Okay. Let's go! Note: Larry's mic is fucked on this episode. I apologize.

New for 2020, it’s Scotch Pursuit! Ok, not really. But what better way to start the new year by trying something new and having Dr. Rachel Barrie, the master blender for The GlenDronach, BenRiach, and Glenglassaugh of Brown-Forman, come and show us the ropes. We talk about malting, peat, Glens and Bens, rules and regulations to be considered a scotch, the temperatures and more. This is a fantastic 101 to the scotch world and even made us, not so much scotch curious, but more single malt curious. Since this recording, we’ve tried numerous single malts and found some great ones. If you have an “entry Scotch” for bourbon drinkers, drop it here in the comments. Show Partners: At Barrell Craft Spirits, they explore whiskey in an entirely new way. The team selects and blends barrels of whiskey into something greater than the sum of its parts. Find out more at BarrellBourbon.com. Receive $25 off your first order at RackHouse Whiskey Club with code "Pursuit". Visit RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. Show Notes: This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about Al Young. Why all the Glens and Bens? Does the altitude affect the whiskey? Talk about growing up around scotch. Tell us about your doctorate. Tell us about the the brands. What is an old school malt? How do you keep malts consistent? What is malting? What is the process for making scotch? What kind of stills do you use? What is your favorite cask? How do you make a blend? How old does scotch have to be legally? Is there a lot of evaporation loss in the barrel? What proof does BenRiach come out of the barrel? How many barrels are in a typical batch? Do you have a team helping you blend? Is there a limit to the number of times you can use a barrel? Tell us about the special releases. 0:00 All right, and I want to make sure that I'm saying these right. Ben Ben. Ben rush when we have Ben react. Oh, gosh. Ben, Ben react. Well, no, I want to be able to introduce and kind of talk about it. So Ben, we are going to hear him fumble. Glenn chronic, right and then Glenn glassing Oh no, glass, glass, I 0:23 have a glass of wine glass. Okay. 0:27 I must leave that one and 0:32 I'm gonna butcher this so bad. 0:45 Happy New Year everybody. It is Episode 234 of bourbon pursuit. And with the new year it comes time that we can all reflect back and start with a clean slate. It gives us a chance to focus on where things are exciting and where we see change happening and we looked at the world of bourbon 1:00 Saw that there's too much drama. So we explored what else this wonderful water whiskey has to offer. And we decided that we're going to start venturing off into scotch. So now you can look forward to a whole lot more scotch podcast happening in 2020. All right, that was a bad joke. We're not gonna be doing any of that. We don't have any other scotch playing episodes, except for this one you're gonna hear today. So you're in the clear. All right. Now let's get on with the news. The bourbon world loss and other great on Christmas Day at 2019. With the passing of Al young from four roses. Alice served in various roles at four roses for 52 years. In 1990. He became distillery manager and in 2007, was named four roses bourbon brand ambassador. He was also historian and published the book for roses. The return of a whiskey legend in 2010. I was inducted into the whiskey magazine Hall of Fame in 2015. And he's also a member of the Kentucky distillers Association, Kentucky bourbon Hall of Fame. After the dedication of the 50th anniversary bottle in 2017. He was boosted in the spotlight and he was regularly seen during 2:00 Private barrel selections. We captured him telling the story of four roses and part of his career. Way back on episode three in 2015. Our thoughts and prayers go out to his family, friends and the entire four roses community. We covered this in the podcast way back in July because on July 3 2019, lightning struck a warehouse at beans maturation complex on the site of the former Old Crow distillery on McCracken road. The warehouse held an estimated 40,000 barrels of whiskey and collapse resulting in a fire. The site is located in the banks of the Glens Creek, which flows into the Kentucky River, which eventually goes into the Ohio River. State Fish and Wildlife investigators later found dead fish along 62 miles of all three waterways with the most impact happening in Glens Creek in the Kentucky River beam. Suntory has agreed to pay the state of Kentucky more than $700,000 following the environmental damage from July's warehouse fire, according to Global's courier journal that Kentucky Energy and Environmental cabinet negotiated a $600,000 fine with the 3:00 Companies Jim beam's brand new unit, an additional $112,000 to reimburse the agency for its expenses from the fire. Now we've talked about the rise of shipping alcohol on the podcast plenty of times before. But now there are studies coming out, the volume of liquor sold online in the US should be more than quadrupled by 2020 for reaching an estimated value of $13.4 billion. And this is according to I Ws or who is the global benchmark for beverage alcohol and data intelligence. out there hurdles that come on this, you've got the antiquated three tier system, you get blue laws and individual states that take care of age verification. And you also have perception because half of the people that were surveyed during this thought that purchasing online was illegal, with companies like drizzly leading the charge, along with other retailers using things like instacart for Costco, people like this. They're doing same day delivery. Expect to see more that it didn't happen in 2020. Thank you to everyone who supported the bourbon pursuit Christmas charity. 4:00 raffles, we raised $13,740 for the USO pets for vets and love city. We appreciate everyone who took the time to donate to these good causes and the winners, you'll be receiving your items in the mail over the next two weeks. We've been truly impressed by our latest pursuit series offerings. Episode 18 of pursuit series was our first ever ride barrel. And it came from Finger Lakes distilling. It's a four year old but it packs fruit and spice all in one for $65 and we also released Episode 19, which is from our Tennessee stock. It's a 10 year old bourbon and it tastes like those orange push ups that we all used to love as kids. We have less than 15 bottles remaining of Episode 18 and about 80 bottles left of Episode 19 we also have less than 10 bottles remaining of Episode 12 so you better act fast. You can get the links to purchase all these by going to pursuit spirits.com this was an exciting episode for Ryan and I we don't know anything about scotch like none 5:00 Least when we started this podcast, we were curious about bourbon. And we started to learn a whole lot more before really diving into it. So what better way to get the full experience about scotch, then by having Dr. Rachel Barry, who is a master Blender for multiple lines of scotches, come on the show and show us the ropes. We talked about multi Pete regulations be considered a skoshe temperatures and a whole lot more. This is a fantastic one on one to the scotch world, and even made us not so much scotch curious, but more so. single malt curious. Since this recording, we've tried various American and foreign single malt and found some that we've really loved and enjoy. So there's a lot more out there than bourbon for most of us. Now. Sit back, Let's relax. Let's hear what Joe from barrel bourbon has to say. And then you've got Fred minich with above the char. 5:51 I'm Joe Beatrice, founder of barrell craft spirits, we explore whiskey in an entirely new way. My team at barrel craft spirits selects and blends barrels of whiskey 6:00 into something greater than the sum of their parts. Next time ask you bartender for barrell bourbon. 6:06 I'm Fred MiniK. And this is above the char. There are a few people you meet in life, where they just instantly feel like they're a brother or a family member, or someone who just cares so deeply about another human being that they would just do anything for a total stranger. 6:27 That's who al Young was. Al young, was probably the most knowledgeable person in bourbon that never wanted any credit. Al Young was this incredible brand ambassador for four roses, who had started working for the seagrams company in 1967. And had been all over the place in the distilling business. You know, to me that the pinnacle of his career was when he served as the plant manager for four roses, everybody talks about the master distiller but our was 7:00 plant manager. And when it came time to retire, they found another job for him because they didn't want to let him go. Because anybody who ever met our young just felt this Kismet kind of special relationship to him. He was, he was avuncular, caring kind, and he wanted to know about you. That's what made our young so special was that it was about bourbon and he loved four roses. But it was never about really anything other than the people. I wanted to know where you grew up. How many kids you have, what you love about whiskey, what you don't like, he wanted to talk to you and learn about you. And so when he passed away on Christmas Day, this past week, 7:50 I think 7:51 a lot of us felt that we felt this big hole that we lost a friend and yeah, we 8:00 always talked about how we lost a whiskey legend. But more than anything, Al was everybody's friend. And if you ever did a barrel pick with him if he ever shook his hand if you ever had a drink with him in a bar or, or had a sandwich in a cafe, you know what I'm talking about. Now, Young was one of a kind, and he will be missed. 8:25 And that's this week's above the char. If you want to learn more about al Young's contributions, go check out my Forbes article, visit forbes.com. And you should also check out the book he wrote about four roses. You can just find it on Amazon search for four roses. Until next week. Cheers 8:48 welcome back to this episode of bourbon pursuit the official podcast of bourbon, Kinney and Ryan here on site in in another studio or at Brown formance. Yes, but today we're talking about 9:00 topic that's so green to us. Like, um, I, we got this email from Andrea who set this up. And I said, Let's take it, let's do the opportunity because we need to branch out a little bit because we've been so bourbon focused in our podcasts and our lives. We forget about this. Oh, there's this whole other world of whiskey that we're not even touching on. And then actually, if you look at it sort of Trumps even what bourbon does on the global map to Oh, yes. But by far and it's funny on the way here, I was thinking like, all right, what we're going to talk about and then like, start thinking, like, when I was when you're like in your 20s, early 20s, you like, kind of make all these rules for yourself. Like, I will never pay someone to mow my lawn or my kids won't be the ones that screaming at the restaurant. And another role for me was, because I'm from Bardstown. I will never drink scotch. But today, I'm changing that and I'm excited to learn about it and drink some scotch. I know it's going to be exciting to do that. And that's really why we have it. It's a 10:00 This is what I love about this is that we have a guest on today that is is pretty world renowned, especially for the scotches that she blends and she touches. You know, I think we might be a little jaded, we might be sitting in the bounds of royalty right now not even really recognize it. Yeah, we're peasants, Scott. 10:19 So let's go ahead introduce our guest today. So today we have Rachel Berry. Rachel is the master Blender for Ben wreck, the Glen. Glen glass and all i got i hope i got that right for single malt Scotch whiskies in the brown Forman portfolio. So Rachel, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. It's great to be here. You did well with those Kenny Yeah, I know. He was kind of fumbled through this quite quite comical 10:42 because we want to have a glass of Glen glass and though it was that, is that how it was? I said a glass of glass. Ah, let's see. That's a very basic question. It starts off while the Glens and Ben's what like there's, you know, Glenlivet, Glynn morenci Glen, Glen glass and Glen dragon 11:00 We're with altitude Really? Okay, so Glenn doneck is very deep down a valley in the valley of brambles. 11:09 So it's a Glen. Okay, and Glenn Glasser is deep down beside the sea. Okay. So you have to again, go down and tickling glossa and then Ben reacts a little bit higher altitude we call those dollars here. 11:28 dollar Yeah, yeah. go fishing. Exactly. You can go fishing. They're absolutely good surfing there. Oh, no, there's no service 11:39 whereby the see Okay, cool. Yeah, yeah. And then Ben react is slightly higher altitude. So it's a bad. Okay. Yeah. So I'm assuming the altitudes do something to the whiskey that really kind of pushed into the name is it as well? Yeah, everything makes a difference with scotch. I mean, scotch whiskey. 12:00 been around since 1494. 12:03 If not for centuries before that was our earliest recorded evidence and we've got 128 distilleries in Scotland and no to disillusion the same is the spirit with the greatest diversity of style and individuality of character in the wild. 12:19 And we're gonna be tasting three years a little bit later we'll dive into those I probably jumped ahead. itinerary or 12:26 so yeah, altitude is a part of it is a part of it. It's one part of many parts. Okay, glad we got it kind of like you know pinos, you kind of grew up you know, to our wine, you kind of grow in the more lower humid regions, then you have grapes in the higher regions, they get more sun and sky kind of gives different flavors white, right? It affects it affects the maturation effects of fermentation, where the distilleries, gotcha. Cool. And so you're based out of Scotland too. Is that correct? Absolutely. We're in Scotland. Well, I was born, five minutes from Glen donek distillery, and I was brought up the air 13:00 Then I went to Edinburgh University and the head office the brown Forman production head offices in Edinburgh, or the Scotch whisky. merry go round by so you're destined to be in scotch? Absolutely. And, you know, I've come home working for Glenn doneck and bendrick and going glass, because, say born near Glen donek. I learned to surf with my dad at Glen Glasser and learn to glide at Ben REAC. That's cool. So I guess talk about growing up around it. I mean, was it was your family having influence into it at all? Or was it just something that you just kind of naturally gravitated towards? Well, my dad was the first to share with me a weed jam when I was far too young. I shouldn't say this to be having a weed drum. 13:46 beat everybody. 13:48 And he also collects malt. So it was a big promote efficient model. 13:52 And, you know, it's more actually being involved in farming as well. You know, it's more of that side of things. 14:00 Then distilling, but yeah, it was serendipity getting into really, 14:05 because I'm a chemist by trade, and I could work for oil or, you know, pharmaceuticals and offer jobs with those. But then I just happened to be cycling past the Career Service on the last day, adult was advertised at the scotch whiskey Research Institute didn't even know such a job existed and got the job. And then I've never looked back for years and researching the alchemy of scotch and then making it so that's even a fun journey. Now the other thing we forgot to mention you're also a doctor the trade might not it might correct so last year, I got an honorary doctorate from the University of Edinburgh so I was honored to be given that feel even worse about myself now. 14:49 You're not only seeing the hands of greatness we're also a doctor. 14:53 Well, I actually studying medicine first as well. It's quite funny. Well was good medicine. 15:00 Why See? That's why I say you know we drama D keeps adult 30 yep away 15:07 How much have you been drinking already today? Not in this kit. 15:12 So let's let's talk a little bit more about you know your history. You know going because I know that you've had your hands in a lot of the Glens and bends of the region as well before you were a master Blender here at Brown Forman taking care of the brands here. So kind of talk about some of that history too. Yeah, I mean, I started off with a Glen and the far north of Scotland and to Glens. The margy Glen Murray, and then also eila with our bag and work with their blends as well creating them so that was, that was a fun journey. I was 1617 years and then move to more worked more with xyla 15:54 with the highlands clan, and also with the lowlands 16:00 was a Glasgow distillery. And then 16:04 a couple more. 16:07 I lost and another Highland. But I've left the best to last working with Baron Corbin because it's truly going home. So I've done my whiskey exploration. Yeah, you've seen them all. Yeah, whenever I see a bottle Glenmorangie I'm like, is it tastes like oranges? Or you know, like, I don't know it, it looks like an orange bottle like, I don't know, what's, what's the difference between like you talked about, I'll guess that's where Laphroaig and you know, different types of brands. What makes the region different? Like one part is one part. I mean, a lot of it is down to the conditions. So 16:46 we'll talk about space side and stuff like that to 16:49 go 50 to 60 distilleries in it. So that's where most of the distilleries are. And Ben react is right in the heart of space sites. 16:57 Halfway between the mountains See, and it's beautiful. 17:00 Beautifully balanced. And, you know, it tends to be you know, fruit laden moles are from Speyside so when rain is particularly fruit Laden, like orchard fruit. 17:12 So everything makes a difference. shape of the stills water the barley. 17:18 Yeah. And then the highlands I've actually would like with Glendora there's actually very few distilleries in the eastern Highlands there's only three. So Glendora is incredibly distinctive. 17:29 And it's a real old style old school mode, which makes it an old school because you gotta understand we're coming to this you know, we know mash but let's start the basic like, what is is God's vs. Okay, here we go. Here we go. We've only got four malt whiskey anyway. Yeah. single malt and that's the caterpillar that's growing. That's what people are really loving. And, and we've got three award winning top distilleries. three ingredients. malted barley, so has to be malt for single malt 18:00 Whiskey meter. 18:02 Like sir deserves 100% one all. Gotcha. So when you go the tour, it's like it has to be 100% Well, 18:11 they're always like 15 you 1% corn You know, that's the thing 100% malt because malted barley is the most complex material you can create flavor from in the world. There's hundreds of flavor compounds created from malted barley. And there was that versus other grains, because it's just all cast in a pool of amino acids of lipids as well as the starch that gives you the sugars. So there's just so much on the on the husk, you even get vanilla, you get searchers, there's so much to be extracted and converted by the yeast to flavor so it's much much more than just 18:51 alcohol. So in you know, in fermentation, you actually create the same flavors as you would do in a wine. So, you know, people often say Oh, how come 19:00 This great penis from mote 19:03 mall is magical. It just creates all this flavor. And that's why notice those are the same. It's a very complex material. And it's the synchronicity of, of where the seller is every single step of the process that creates quite a distinctive character as well to say how do you keep that consistent 19:20 between the distilleries because I would imagine that you know, one farmers multi bar one farmers barley that you got to bring in and malt like you had to have some sort of process that try to get a consistency. Yeah, but I mean, there's always going to be some sort of variations. Yeah, I mean, the malted barley varieties per year might be slightly different and more to do with the harvest. But generally, you know, most of Scotland will be growing the same, the same varieties because they're the ones that are working and you know, disease resistant and and grow and give you the highest yield. 19:53 But I mean, multi process can affect it. Ben Rhea, we've got all more tanks, which is something really special 20:00 one of only two distilleries of those, you know, 55 distilleries in Scotland that to have the Maltings so that's you know, something something special we don't maltol year but we do batches somebody doesn't know can you describe what multi malting is just bring that would be that somebody 20:18 is bringing the barley to life. So the barley is harvested spring barley is harvested in August and then it will be melted typically, you know, in the autumn 20:34 or it can be kept as but just the green barley as we call it before it's melted for longer and malted in the spring. 20:41 But malting means that you basically steeping water. Okay, so you're giving it some moisture, which is encouraging it to grow. Yep. And the growing phase is called germination. And that's where the mall is layout and the floor and the old style is with a, you know, to shovel it, basically 21:00 Mo shovel and turn it starts routing together it stops it from knitting together with sprites, okay and ensures an even temperature. And this allows the the enzymes to start working and the fooling the barley into thinking it's growing right because given that those conditions and so when we got the enzymes just perfect and the body is modified so this activate those enzymes, it's then we need to stop it. And that is done through mulk killing. And that's where the the germination barley is, is is raised on to Multi Floor. And beneath that there is heat and that's the kill. Okay. 21:42 Traditionally, Pete was used and most distilleries when we were back, but then you know, in the 20th century there was gas etc. So, so so most distilleries these days are undefeated. 22:00 with Ben reate, we've got both. So we're very lucky to have both. But Pete itself, is is, is found a lot in Scotland. 22:12 For Ben REAC. We source it from nearby the distillery and there was Caledonia forests 10,000 years ago and over 10,000 years, the Caledonian forest is as broken down over time over this time, and created the piece that we use. So Arpita actually, you can see fibers in it almost like fibers of wood. So is this like, like sphagnum peat moss or anything like that type or no, this is more like woodridge widger Okay, this is because it's from the northeast where you have Caledonia forest. Whereas if you went to Iowa, which is an island off the west coast, which makes the most 22:53 was the highest density of peated whiskies when it is a peat moss, a peat moss. Yeah. 23:00 No moss and also only because I use peat moss. I've agrico like turf. He's, he's 23:07 a 23:09 horticulture degree and we we use peat moss to like improve soil profiles and textures because it's rich in organic matter 23:18 all that organic matter you see this decade over 10,000 years and different parts of the geography of Scotland and you have you know different types of vegetation. And when you burn the peat, which fuels the fire that most of barley, 23:35 the aromas from from that material that vegetation and permeate the barley. So this introduces smoky flavors and you know, more nyla you find something more medicinal, more CBD decaying sweet seaweed type of smell. 23:54 Whereas, with Ben REAC it's that sweets would smoke on 24:00 Like a barbecue smell I think people in Kentucky would love it. 24:04 You know, it's really, really sweet. I guess that's based on the native vegetation there. Yeah, absolutely. But also in space side this is very, very rare, right? We Pete, every year we do about 15% of what we do. And then I get to have fun playing tunes with the beat on the competed stock and with flavor and create flavor so so it's great fun but space I typically is undefeated malts they tend to most of your glands 24:34 So Ben Ben reacts really very bold and adventurous and having Is there anything like heat shortage or is that ever word like people here talking about you know, uses evoke or whatever they're like, oh, Ukrainian oak shores they ever complained about they're all using all our Pete. We thought plenty. 24:55 There's plenty of pee. Gotcha. doesn't actually take that much Pete to create smoke. Gotcha. 25:00 etc. So it's all relative, isn't it? probably use more in your horticulture. Yeah, farmers and weekend gardeners. Let's see, I was kind of curious about like, what was the shift of moving away from Pete? Was it just in efficiencies of scale? Or was it a change in flavor that people were looking for? Like, what was that? Because you said most distilleries are kind of shifting away from that. 25:22 Well, this know historically, 25:25 it was more to do with the fact that we could get natural gas to to 25:33 drive barley and which is more efficient. 25:36 And also, you know that for the environment overall. So yeah. 25:45 We got, we got we got barley, they were melting it and then we're killing it. Yeah, dry it out to stop the germination process. All right, where we at steps the next step? Oh, we get the multi barley in 26:00 millat we have to put in a mill. And there's two different types of mill and distilleries. porcius or Bobby mill, and they've got four different rollers. And when it goes through the mill, this cracks open the husk, which is the surface of the barley. And then it goes down to the next level of rollers. And it gives you three different particle sizes, which are the husk on the outside of the barley, the grist in the middle and the flower, and you have to get perfect combination to give you the best taste and to get the most extraction. How do you get the perfect combination? Well, you just know what's right for you guys. And then you can use a sieve and use a sieve and you you work out your different particle sizes percentages, got a really simple process to for the guys to the distillery 26:45 analogous to like the corn that we take in, you know, basically turn into a powdered form. We're sitting there getting ready to do our mash. I guess the 26:55 flower package is not good because it would clog up the mash tun 27:00 Okay, okay give it will give you lots of alcohol and also it's not as good from flavor. 27:06 husk is great because it gives us a filter bed and mash tun and we want to produce a clear war target. So when we drain it off, and you know it filters through, and then the rest is the majority of 70% in the middle size particle skips great flavor and alcohol. Awesome. Alright, so we're moving past the mills where we're going next we're going into the mash tun and there's different sort of mash tons and scotch. I Glenn jornet. We've got copper mash tun 27:37 which goes right back decent job six, it's incredible. Lots of content with copper. It's a traditional recompile very slow process takes six hours to mash. Ben react also takes a long time to to mash very slow, where some more efficient, bigger distilleries might take three hours. But we believe slow and steady wins the race. That's right. The the tortoise always wins when I read this 28:01 Yeah, you know, Peter Pan, do you know the tortoise scene? Yeah, well, you get complexity in whiskey if you take your time. That's right. So with bedrick, for example, we we add one water at around 6065 degrees, 28:23 we mash this and then we drain it off through the filter bed. And then we add another water, a higher temperature around 74. And we drain off and they both go into the fermentation process. And then we add two more waters, which just clean it all out and go back into the first with the first water from the next run. And so we saw remash water, so it kind of 28:51 so we, we basically are great economists in Scotland. We don't let any job goes to waste. Yeah. And so with 29:00 mentation Are you all hanging your head on like this is our own yeast we've had for since 1400 or whatever, you know, we've got great distillers yeast that the whole industry uses which are perfect for scotch, she'll be black distillers uses profit for scotch. But when we ferment as well, you know, this is where the magic comes in, you know, we know we've got 29:23 wash backs that you know, air does the natural Flora can get into so it can influence the fermentation as well. 29:33 Tanks kind of sort of thing. Gotcha. Well, it's a Glen Donna, we have Scottish large wash backs. And sorry, I thought it's large. It's a wood. Oh, okay. I'll never would see he knew exactly was not miss anything. Yeah, like I got nothing here. So 29:52 my computer 29:54 was like, you know, you think about some disorders we go to and they've got the Cypress tanks. You know, that's my guys, man. That but yeah, this is 30:00 Uh, 30:01 yeah, so yeah, so squad is large and therefore, you know, it can you know pick it can breathe. You can never get it fully cleaned. But that's great because it gets more of the micro flora. Yeah. Your 30:15 character character. 30:18 Character Yes. funks a good boss. Robust, robust Highland character. Yes. That's how royalty says yeah. 30:29 Alright, so we're through fermentation. We're, I'm saying distilling copper stills, right pot stills. Oh, copper ports tell ya, I noticed again, notice no column stills ever never call themselves from all over. And while they're saying it's because it's pretty efficient and what we see around here that's kind of what a lot of the lot of the stories hang their hats on are doing a lot of bourbon and a lot of runs at once is basically using a really massive column stills. We have one of the most inefficient process 31:01 Incredible complex to flavor. It's all about the flavor and the end of the day. And with single malt in particular. 31:10 There's lots going on. So you want to take one cut this special for your distillery in the second distillation. So there's two distillations, typically in scotch. first one's called the wharf style tends to be the bigger style. And the second one is the spirit. So 31:30 in the first still, you distill the beer from around 8% alcohol up to around 20 24%. That's called low winds. And then you take the low winds, which is 24 and two, the second still the spirit still, and we, we cut the middle point, so whether it's the ceiling over 31:52 with bendrick, for example, 13 minutes, we just recycle. So we cut it, it goes into one 32:00 chamber. And then the middle heart goes into another chamber and that is for Philippians cask. And then the tales go back into that first chamber and then they're all recycled. So it's a very slow process, but it means that we capture very specific flavors. And then the still design is has an influence as well. So a Ben reate we've got very pure shapes so they just look quite beautiful pairs. And the this captures almost a fully peer job. Apple characters like an apple or church and the sales were that Glen Drona. We have 32:40 almost like saxophone stills. 32:43 Very unusual design. Certainly in terms of the neck, it curls around, up and down just like a swans neck. And this is very, very unusual. 32:53 So we have a boil ball that gives you lots of reflex and then the swans neck so we get this unique character. 33:00 How many different kinds of stills Have you seen over your course of time? You know, with all the time so I mean there's there's not kind of like a 33:09 I guess a good recipe that everybody kind of follows along like around here everybody goes oh, let's just call them down and we'll call today Yeah, well yeah, write a check and then in Dumbo Scotland all the stuff for sites Yeah. Oh coppersmith and the replace the stels member scotch whiskey is been gone for a long time Glendon It was 1826 You know, when I got those cells, so they'll replace them. Exactly. You know, every every little batch every you know, everything just the right, same, exactly same dimensions, but each distillery Yeah, so they're the man they're the coppersmith. Gotcha. Yeah. So quite often, you see stills just driving along the road. 33:49 being replaced. Yeah, that's awesome. Though. The corporate does where I mean corporates makes great conductor. It's wonderful for flavor because it catalog 34:00 is more fruit takes it the harshal elements. It's, it's magical. Absolutely. And so from there you've got your hearts and you're swimming you're filling barrels. Now you're filling barrels lately. Is it typical still 53 gallon sometime x bourbon cask like we're talking about the book is interesting because if you go back to 1826 for example, back then, it was Sherry principally that was important into into Scotland and bottles. And then the cast's were just use the surplus before then it was Aquavit, I Water of Life clear spirits. And you know, that farmers made because they had surplus barley. Who wouldn't? Yeah, 34:46 a little bit different around here. Normally, you would call that moonshine? Yeah. 34:51 Yeah, so it was serendipity, as many things and then the scotch industry that these Sherry cast and the main but the results are 35:00 podcast klarich cast what at that point? And we're used to, to host the whiskey which 35:08 you can ask me that. I love with no. I mean, I've spent so much time analyzing oak from around the world. I just love them all. I cannot say that. That's a cop out. Yeah. I love the one. I'm creating the whiskey with that day better. So today Yeah, yeah. Today president with that cast, I'm fully present with each cast. Gotcha. Absolutely. Alright, so what was the last cast you used? What was the last before? Well, I came to Louisville a few days ago. And the last cast I knows from was 35:44 definitely Glenn Dornoch, Patrick Hammond f cask. The last one px px Sherry right. And yeah, so that was the last one I'm learning the beauty of scotch and parvis 35:57 authenticity as well. 36:00 That we have this incredible selection we have to use a walk. Walk is the best. Yeah. You know, other words just do not cut the mustard. They don't have the complexity. 36:11 But apart from that it can have been you know, virginal we can use just like in Barban and or use casts So, for example with Ben redic we have the most eclectic collection of casks in space eight if not in the whole of Scotland. And we're has 13 we've got everything from the virgin not to bourbon to rum, to red wine, Bordeaux, New Yorker to Moscow masala to Tawny port report to a Miss Miss Miss Spano. 36:50 Madeira, so turn Okay, yeah. So you have all these different cask and I guess we'll get into to your your black magic of blending 37:01 Well let's talk about blink. So like here, like the master distillers like you know the celebrity or the you know the person that everyone looks to like but I hear over there the master blender is kind of like the runaway hit and away nosing lots of casks I know is about 5000 samples per year from casks 37:23 because it's such a complex spirit and no two castles in there very can be very different. 37:31 So I've noticed about hundred and 50,000 casks well my lifetime so far, 37:37 and counting and counting. But, you know, is the key part of, 37:44 of, of delivering a perfectly balanced single malt is knowing, obviously, what would you use what your wood policy is because we can reuse them more than once and then the different recipes of such 38:00 are almost in the cast selection. So the percentage you might use a bourbon cask virginal although very few us first you know we've got a real we're onto a winner here with Brian for men because we have source of virgin oak it's absolutely amazing it's great to play with and tons of us to work and tons of great dad Daniels barrels good for desirable for so take your pick so yeah so it's up to the master blender to kind of work out in conjunction obviously in collaboration with various people in the business so our influence in various various people in the business to see I think this will really work and consumer love it and you so like we're doing it. Are you like all right I went 30 bourbon expert and blends and when 35 x Madeira blends and or Derek has finished and then to blend to make you know a brand or like or no formula. Well it's it's really up to 39:00 whiskey. And to be honest, it's the whiskey that tells me 39:04 because she can keep me in Kim, it tells you it tells you the story tells you what it wants to be, you have to listen. And see you're not the guidance counselor. 39:16 Like Jackie says, when you know when she gets barrels off, she can like taste them and be like, all right, you're going off to be the old forester. You're going to be the prohibition series. You're going like here and there, but yeah, actually, you actually let the whiskey Tell you what, what to do with it. Absolutely. You know, like, 39:36 the characters whiskey Jasmine, what to do with it. I mean, with Ben react, it's got perfect balance of fruit Mononoke you know, and that is the key for me is to create character individuality. 39:50 Make it shine, just bring it all out, you know. 39:54 So, with Ben week 10 for example, general this is an appropriate time so yeah. 40:00 Yeah So Ben Murray lunch 40:08 with the careers of master distiller spanning almost 50 years, as well as Kentucky bourbon Hall of Famer and having over 100 million people taste his products. Steve nalli is a legend of bourbon who for years made Maker's Mark with expertise and precision. His latest project is with Bardstown bourbon company, a state of the art distillery in the heart of the bourbon capital of the world. They're known for the popular fusion series, however, they're adding something new in 2020 with a release named the prisoner. It starts as a nine year old Tennessee bourbon that has been finished in the prisoner wine companies French oak barrels for 18 months. The good news is, you don't have to wait till next year to try it. Steve and the team at Bardstown bourbon company have teamed up with rackhouse whiskey club rackhouse whiskey club is a whiskey the Month Club on a mission to uncover the best flavors and stories that craft distilleries across the US have to offer. Their December box features a full size bottle of Bardstown suffusion series and a two 41:00 Hundred milliliter bottle of the prisoner. There's also some cool merchant side. And as always with this membership shipping is free. Get your hands on some early release Bardstown bourbon by signing up at rackhouse whiskey club.com. Use code pursuit for $25 off your first box. 41:19 So, with Ben week 10 for example, general this is an appropriate time. So yeah. 41:25 Yeah, so Ben Murray. 41:30 So this is the core whiskey from Ben REAC. It's unpainted, or just make sure we're going which way Left to Right Left, left, right, left Bell know if you're not. 41:40 Yeah, well, the last time we did this, were wells with with Jackie and I went right to left and I was like, I'm not getting the same notes as you all but you know, that's me for not following directions. So this is this is the great label one that we're trying. So this is Yeah, this is the core product and this is 42:01 A marriage of 42:05 bourbon so principles john Daniels car says the main constituent of this product and also some Sherry cask from European oak and then also some of the brain for forming cooperage virgin oak, which is medium toasted and medium charge the same chat Tanya yes or no for a smell like Hawaiian Punch or like you know like the pineapple. Pineapple like like a toasted coconut like yeah more you know is that the more fruit you're gonna get? It just keeps on giving memory it just like is so fruit laden it's like a pina colada or something. 42:48 Well, you get pina colada Yeah. I got an apple orchards how work with ripened ripening peaches. Yeah, Rhino come up with the best tasting notes for you. 43:00 They're everything I had as a child. And I'm like, All right, we're gonna find this in the whiskey. Yeah. And you find it. I did. Well, I didn't have pina coladas when I was a child, but 43:11 I did have lion punch. Yeah. You ever had Hawaiian Punch? Yeah. Okay, cool. I know what you're talking about for all relatable still. 43:19 So very fatty. very fruity. Yes. Very nice. pear shaped cells. Yeah. You know. Beautiful. And you got a Yeah, I mean, some people who who drink wine really loves us. So, you know, becoming from Shapley or, you know, sharni you know, that fruitiness 43:37 is very, very distinctive layers of fruit. So, what kind of proof what kind of proof we're looking at 43% alcohol, which is 86 degrees proof. 43:49 So, it's a good strength. It's just the right strength to keep the fruit martynuk in perfect balance. So like with scotch like bourbon, they typically like art for years. We can start selling this one 44:00 Are you all like we can start selling this? Well legally it can be from three years old. Okay, okay, but I would never sell think about three years old because 44:11 the complexity is so much richer. It just gives you more a 10 years old so at three years is that for the single mother to be called a scotch? It has to be at least three years over boss. Okay, so any scotch whiskey be a blend of Multan green, because we do have green distilleries as well. 44:33 Like what other kind of grants or you know, we focus on the single malt because that's where all the flavor is. 44:41 So, if you look at other grains then is like like filler, like it doesn't really have it doesn't bring as much complexity or character to 44:51 the Scotch whisky industry was built on the complexity of single malt 44:58 and the green 45:00 Yeah, was pretty much there as a as a filler. Gotcha. See? Yeah, greens cheaper. So like, yeah, we're saying a mall is, you know, expensive to make the match process. It's handcrafted. It's you know, it's barley is expensive, sort of talking about aging. 45:18 Because it seems that barrels seem to like, retain a lot more liquid over in Scotland and Lino The longer they sit, I mean, you've you've got scotches that are yet wanting to learn 50 years old gin gin? Yeah, it's hot as hell. Yeah. And so we never get so Scotland. 45:39 I know sometimes I wish I lived there because be so easy to grow grass is the perfect weather. You know, we've got I guess that's why 45:49 we have an incredible landscape. Yeah, Scotland is so lush. And yes, it's perfect for barley as well on the east coast and then P on the west coast. 46:00 Public question. Well, yeah, 46:04 it's add, it's okay. I didn't count grass. Well, it's like, we're talking about how hot it is here versus Scotland. And I'm like Scotland is the perfect place to grow grass because grass here in June, July, it's like, it hates it. But it's good for bourbon because it's evaporating and moving it out of the barrel, you know, and I guess that was the question more along the lines of evaporation. I mean, you see in a lot of evaporation last over in Scotland that you would compared to like bourbon that are that's coming from Ohio, Tennessee, Kentucky, what what's considered a we call it a short barrel here, you know, like, if it's like below, like 100 bottles were like, Ooh, that's a short barrel. That one's gonna be good. Do you have Scotland? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. We lose about on average for the whole industry. And it does vary. And then we get into another discussion. We lose about 2% of the volume and leasers about cold per year 46:57 of the original desk, which is ok. 47:00 We're about what five to 8% I think is kind of what you see around here at least at the first year. I think it's upwards double digits. But yeah, after that it kind of settled. Yeah. So what that means because it's a very slow reduction and also the the apple strength goes down. I know in bourbon, it goes up. Oh, really? Wow. Yeah. 47:21 There you go. I told you you were coming in with 47:24 no idea. Yeah. So the ankle strength goes down. And that means that you're extracting different things from the the old cast the longer you leave it because that strength is going down. But you're only losing 2% volume, meaning that you can leave it for longer. It's got more interaction with the word more oxidation, most importantly for single malt because that gives you the elegance of complex to the top notes, etc. The finesse that you find in a single malt is nice, but I'm how much different flavor now to get in this. You know, 86 proof tenure. What does this 48:00 single malt Yeah, yeah Ben REAC there's a lot going on it's like it's incredible the flavors you can get out of it. Like I said, we're pretty amateur and scotch and you know, most of the scotch I've had had been very heavy peated so it's like really pungent kind of earthy like smoky type. This is definitely more on the fruity or side and more like Captain Crunch berries. We ever can crunch with the berries. Sorry, talking to him, but I can imagine what you're enjoying. Well, so it's kind of like, you know, cereal in the milk. What will sugary substance yeah you have like a really sugary berries. And absolutely. 48:44 That is the 10 years or cheers for another delicacy here in Kentucky Fried pizza. 48:53 Fit pizza. Never heard of a big sugar cookie with the 49:00 Oh, I had that with this whiskey for lunch. See we're on the same wavelength. And it was just amazing because you get the fruit you get the malt which is like the creaminess of custard and vanilla. And then you get the oak, which is like the actual sediment on top and the lovely pastry base. Yeah, you know, so layered. Have you have you tried it yet? for pizza? If you tried this? Oh, no. Yes. I noticed you having a Oh yeah, we said we 49:29 are Ryan. Kenny. Ryan. Yeah. And then we have both been drinking. 49:35 So 49:37 we see Oh, 49:40 sounds good. Cheers. Cheers. 49:44 Y'all for pizza? Yeah, somebody new pairing? Take them take them back to Scotland. I will. Yeah, I said I probably I need to visit our local patisserie. Oh, yeah, maybe they 49:56 call it them. But it is it's just like a bakery. And that's the beauty. 50:00 Henriette, because it's in a sweet spot between the mansion in the sea and has a perfect environment to give you this balance of fruit modern look, if you go up the hill of it to other sellers, you get a little more kind of delicate fruit but without the malt. And if you go down it gets a bit more oil and it loses fruit. So we have the perfect balance to 50:19 little higher up. Yeah, yeah, cool. But this, I like the hierarchy. Yeah, yeah. Power up. Yeah. 50:28 What about the next Ben? And while I do the same facility? Yeah, yeah. It's the same, same. 50:34 different, different a different expression. But the different expression here and Black Label for anybody. Yeah, I mean, anyone that's curious. We have curiosity is anyone that's curious about beat because this is the piece of all there it is. Yeah. And going back to the 1970s. This is the only way 50:57 this is the only space side to have peace and welcome back to the 97 51:01 And and off space site. So an RP 51:05 is there has to be there has to be a ton of people that love that the taste and the smell of Pete. And I don't know for me it's hard to kind of gravitate towards like a more fan of of the the other Ben versus the peated. But yeah, I think this is also could have been my upbringing. I don't know if it's our upbringing it could be, you know, our palates not adjusted to it, you know, because a bourbon Bourbons very sweet. We've had torn pieces. Yeah, maybe that what it is, but you know that we come from Bourbons. It's very sweet. Yeah. Well about the barbecues. 51:38 Smoking weed like a ha ha. Yeah. 51:43 He likes to smoke me. I got my green and I got do some brisket, some pulled pork and some ribs. Yeah, like that. It does. And you have any forest you have forest. Burnham forest. So salvus in the forest, your brother a few boys, guys. 52:01 Tiger scout Yeah, start playing baseball maybe it wasn't about it I never really never really made it ever have the pleasure of maybe you know as you age just wow I love having a little campfire Yeah, I had I had flint and steel at one point I think that was the coolest thing ever got out of Boy Scouts was actually having my lens steel. Oh yeah, yeah, being able to actually create a fire with that like just, you know, well have a sniff back there. It will take you back there. You're in that forest. You feel like with your fire steel. You've got some marshmallows being toasted. 52:35 Ah, you've got some sugar maple in there as well. sugar maple. 52:43 It's just so it's just so radically different than what we drink. You know? That's, that's, that's why it's so like, it's still 52:50 just as you haven't tried to, you know, 52:54 open your mind. I knew I was coming into the diversity of flavor we got here you little bin is 53:00 The gateways are gateways God gateways gods and this is like Big Bang 53:05 well big bands little bit higher and strength as well okay 6% alcohol non chill filtered and nice to decrease gotcha what uh what are they? Were they coming out of the barrel typically at you didn't already say that did you know I didn't know we know they go down 53:20 okay so over 10 years, we're probably going to go from the felling strength of around 63.5% you say 163.5 is what you go into the barrel so 63.5% 136 730 737 degrees proof and then it goes down to losers over 10 years but 5% alcohol so I'll go down to about 5859 Okay, basically, pen Twitter's in the warehouse, concert warehouse it ends up in size of the warehouse. Traditional dunnage or tall is there an idea in the scotch world of like single barrels 54:00 Because I guess Glendora can Ben Rick, we we do single bottles for for for customers for you know for retailers, you know some of the specialists. So to see the single cast Yeah. 54:14 So yeah, absolutely. And we've got we've got cast strength and expressions as well so yeah. All right around the corner. So but this is 4692 degrees proof 54:33 right? Oh yeah, this one reminds me of like my 54:38 smoke a turkey every year for Thanksgiving and has this like Cajun rub that I put on it's like a real spicy and smoky so like, kind of get kind of makes me regret reminds me of that. And this is Barban cast. Cast. No wonder 54:57 I feel like I'm 54:59 still suffering. 55:00 That's why you're loving it because it's still got the sweetness. Remember I said it was the Pete has wood rich so yours like smoking mood. Yep. And then got the Emperor front caviar. And then unlike the island malts, we are very fruit laden even in distillation so we get all that fruit in there as well as the smoke. So like smoking a fruit pizza, smoking a fruit pizza. I love it. Yep. Get it on the cam everything. Everything is under the fruit pizza around here. Yeah. Oh, and maybe some some bananas on the barbecue with some chocolate in them as well. Dark Chocolate Chocolate. Banana croquettes it since you've been to Kentucky I've not had the pleasure. Oh, wow. Change Your Life. But I'm gonna ask for about Banana. Banana, rolled in. Mayonnaise and then bake. It sounds so good. And you could crush that peanuts on it. It's magical. 55:57 Barbecue that and it's this is exactly 56:00 Glass right here, nailed it. You know, you just have to open your minds and Kentucky to the flavors that you can join your food. You know? So I guess another question that we get to kind of, you know, kind of related back to bourbon a little bit is with inside of bourbon, we have this idea of like, oh, like there's a huge shortage, like, all these higher age expressions are getting very hard to find. They're very, very expensive. And everybody rushes and jumps and like there's this huge influx of people that are really starting to buy. Now, do you see that still happening like in the scotch worlders that scotch has just been around for so long? It's had the luxury of time and stocks and that you're able to still put out 10 2030 year old expressions and they've been agent since 1400. Yeah, you know, may I ask, Is there any actually left in the battle and Kentucky after 10 1520 years? Yeah, not much after, I'd say. What was it I think, you know, we have we know some distilleries around they have they have some 15 57:00 20 year old releases, but you're looking at 70 to 95 bottles in the bank cash during a cash drink something like that. You know you, you talked to Chris Morris we've talked about before and birthday Bourbons and stuff like that with the heat cycled warehouses that there are times that even 12 years old that they haven't the casks. Yeah. So imagine Christus forgot to put the plug. 57:24 I would imagine with Virgin oak, there would just be wood, wood and more wood. And lots of food. Yeah, I would imagine for a very long Oh, yeah, definitely. I'm sure like, it takes a lot. You're like, all right, this is very tacky, or Yeah, like, bitter kind of finished to it. So there's like we're all just going for balance. I mean, the fact that single malt. Ben music is so fruit Laden. It means that with maturation over a long time, you're just getting the escaping that balance convert in the woods into a softer flavors and 58:00 Get a lot of reactions happening rather than just a distraction. So it's very, very complex. But in answered your question, yeah, we've got some older songs and we're very lucky at Ben react because started putting in 1972 again, and we've got starts going back to the end of the piece of models. So we've got 21 year old Tim porous Well, it's fully peated but tastes like caramelize Pier. It's incredible. And Honey, I need to enable untoasted ever had a pair caramelized? There you go get on it on Oh, yeah, it's amazing. You know, so really, yeah. peachy, but you know, so And yeah, so we have all this wonderful whiskey that for people to discover 58:48 in flavor, you know, people are just waking up tomorrow. Well, so I guess the I go ahead and I was gonna say and these so what like a typical barrel dumping these blends like how many barrels are 59:00 Yeah, typically bad. Yeah. And Ben Rhea typical batch would be around 50 to 60. Okay, it's pretty small. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean it's pretty small batch single malt 59:13 per bottling and obviously I want to keep it consistent as well each time so yeah, very cool. Well, yeah so we bought mostly bourbon bourbon for the the Curiosity is the 10 year old was the virginal the Sherry and the the bourbon. And we've got lots more expressions besides using wine cast, etc. Oh, yeah, I get to play. So you're getting like me, it's like a pessary you get so much different flavor going on. He's going into that cake shop. Is it like here we have like a like, 59:47 I don't know what this word comes. My accountability partners are like tasting panel tasting panel. That's what I'm looking for. To like. 59:54 You know, just make sure that everything you're blending is consistent with the brand 1:00:00 Rachel or is there? Or is there a team behind you as well? That's sort of like to be on the team. I do. I think I've passed. 1:00:07 I think I could do just for pizza. You know, I've got an assistant. This is just one, just one assistant. On flavor side. Here. There's like a likes like five or six, five or six. However, however, you know, the distillery team as well, everyone gets involved. Everyone gets involved. Gotcha. You know, the final product is and speaking the final product, let's talk about the last one we have on our right, which is the Glen dronicus. So talk about what this is. And really what this expression is, as well. Yeah, you said it so perfectly drawn. Know, 55 minutes later, I think I figured it out. 1:00:41 Well, that means valley of the brambles. You've heard the brambles, brambles, brambles, no blackberries, blackberries there. Oh, 1:00:49 it's beautiful. It's in Highlands. But isn't a valley in the highlands. And it's I was born very close to silly brought up there. It's the richest most abundant 1:01:00 landscape for agriculture. You'd love it. 1:01:03 It's great soil. Great, just best barley and Scotland near Glendora distillery and primarily we use Sherry cask that's what really sets us apart 1:01:18 we say 1:01:20 there you go 1:01:22 really going hard with the apples here lots yeah like applesauce or rather not baked because what oh no they're not baked not be 1:01:31 there you go oh wow well I get everyone's nose is different of course Oh, sorry 1:01:39 yeah I mean ourselves she said yes we've got saxophone shape skills which means that we have a robust kind of earthy character and on top of that we've got all these fruits which are picking up 1:01:52 but Bramble fruits is quite dominant I think a picots figs 1:01:57 Oh yeah, all that going on. Kind of 1:02:00 Soft fruits and the and the darker fruits come through. So, with gone donek we source Spanish oak, from from Spain from Galicia is filled with two types of sherry, primarily 1:02:17 Pedro Jimenez and all the Russell and Pedro Hammond. I think we buy the most pedra Hammond f casks in the industry because Pedro Hammond eth is known as the King of cherries. And it gives you a really anxious kind of sweetness, dates, raisins, dark chocolate, all that going on. And that really sweet and then the other also is dryer and nuts here. 1:02:41 So yeah, so we for the 12 year olds 1:02:45 have 12 year old petropolis 12 year old are also and we bring them together, and the combination is the perfect balance for Glen tonic. So a question about when you're using 1:03:00 You know, x px and alluro. So barrels and stuff like that, because you use them multiple times over. Is there like a, because you're going to only extract so much of that flavor, you're not going to get it every single time. So it's like, Is there like a chalk line? It's like you like 123? Like, like we've used this three times. Yeah. And so and so you know, like we need, we need one that's first new fill or a few new fills to add into this to kind of keep that sort of consistency to it. Yeah, absolutely. It's just 1:03:32 my path I've got archaeon flight path and working on because obviously as volume grows, and it will people love going john, we're just gorging casks for the 12 year old and they're all first fill. pajamas and all their also you did ask in this first fill, and we just scored those and then we'll maybe refill them with new make the new fill. And then I know that it's going to take longer for a second fall. So it might be 18 years. 1:04:00 are more or am I even have to rewrap it back into ourselves? If it's not? If it's not if it's not worked as well or it's not extracting enough, but Spanish is incredibly deep in color and talents. It's like Spanish podcast last a long time. So, typically in the industry going back to the 19th century, there would have been used to be four or five times, you know, and they would have still been strong when it leaked, etc. The solid the Gothic. Steve's a big casks. And, but we only use them 1:04:35 twice, really? And if I was to fill a third time, I would probably not gonna give me Yeah, I'm gonna be back after a few years. I mean, reracked I take it take the risk out of that cast and put it into First of all, gotcha. Okay. So, you know, it's like, if you've got kids, you know, if they're doing well at school, you leave them as that school and doing well and they're flourishing and they're, you know, becoming great individuals, if they're not doing so well, that 1:05:00 school you might take it out and put into for school. Rachel, you hit the park with this one. This one's awesome like that you like the Glen? Yes. I think I'm a Glen fan. I like I like the valleys in the highlands. Yeah, well the thing about Glen janyk is I'm a judge at spirits competitions. Okay. And for me the whole mark of fine whiskey full stop. But especially fine single finest single malt is that it must be complex balanced loads of character. And always deliver more on the taste than on the nose. Yeah. xid expectations every time. This is Yeah, this reminds me of like a apple cider with all the you know the get the cinnamon sticks and the morning spices all in there kind of just like a little bit prettier version of that. But 1:05:52 I see again, the spice from the all are also cast. So you could get gin, warm gingerbread bake in the oven center. 1:06:00 Thanks absolutely great for Christmas. For me, like no, I think all our Christmas in a glass you know? Or Yeah, definitely fall as well. So you get a nuttiness at the back of the palette from the other also. So when you taste it up or just have another sip, yeah, go for it. Yeah, I guess I another question about because I know that Glenn tronic has a really big kind of cult following sort of behind it to like it's it's one of the most popular brands that are out there. And I know I joined 1:06:28 it I know there was a head of in in a probably a year, maybe a year and a half ago there was released called like 1993. It was kind of talk about sort of that and sort of some of these, these sort of special releases that are coming out that a lot of these sort of a whiskey nerds and scotch nerds are really going for Yeah, I mean, the beauty of Glenn donek is that its traditional, and we haven't changed anything. So it's that's why I call it it's kind of old style. 1:06:56 And what that means is your recommend nature and obviously we 1:07:00 You have seasons. So for example, the spring and the spirit of steel and I get a little bit more kind of like vines and almost a grapey quality from all it's incredible. And then into June I'll get more kind of dark fruit and jamee into October and Autumn in the fall. You get more of this nutty tobacco leaf leather is incredible. So what does this mean? Well, obviously when I create 12 year olds, I'm using whiskey from all the seasons and I'm giving that perfect balance taste, getting all that complexity that you love with a single casks, individual cask bottlings. You know, it's giving the connoisseurs an opportunity to wow they're appreciating all these different complex flavors that are coming through and different cast at different times. They're getting that chance to really have a taste of complexity of Plantronics and different individual cast. So it might be a cast that's more robust and more full body Normally, you know all our offices 1:08:00 Maybe from from November. Or it might be one that's a bit more spicy from the winter. Or maybe one that's just before Jeremy from the summer. Like, you know, no, that's awesome. So yeah, so and they love and they love discussing it. They love it. They love it, but you know your stuff. 1:08:21 Listen, I read a few forums and I see what people are talking about what they're buying, and I just get curious and that's just one of the things that happened. That's not quite a following Glenn Dornoch has got quite a following and more and more gravitating and I think you know, with this quality I think people in Kentucky are gonna love it. Yeah, and this one actually, you know, it has a little bit of a darker and richer color than than the Ben but well the Ben and Ben Maria can go and donecker all natural color. And that means it's just from the from the cast naturally cast imparted color. 1:08:53 Other other malts might be have caramelize for example. 1:08:57 But you know, it's all natural for us. 1:09:00 So, the color that you see is coming from the Spanish shock and pedra menethil are on the roster, Cherie. So, yeah, you get a more intense, more intense color. Well, you know, that's, that's awesome. And thank you so much for the information. And, you know, also, thank you so much for flying all the way to Scotland to have this interview with this unbelievable. I mean, this was a pleasure for us. So I know, I know, it was definitely an honor for us to actually have you on here. Because there's, there's probably so many people in the scotch world that know who you are. And it was a pleasure for us to finally have this introduction from somebody like you to say, you know, lead us through a scotch tasting like this. So it was it was really an honor. That's absolutely my pleasure to be with you. I hope I've managed to convert at least one of you to add single malt Scotch to your repertoire. I think we might have like a Glen and Ben might be in the ticket here. Yeah. So I agree. Glen and have been glad in the back. Yeah, yeah. So you're going for 1:09:59 Yeah. 1:10:00 glendan have been Yeah, I agree. I mean this cleanse dronicus really good. And then the I'm still I'm still not on board with the Pete yet. Maybe it just it's like everything else it just makes you like your coffee. I don't drink coffee I don't drink 1:10:13 coffee. 1:10:16 I either like it like black nothing in it like, like Peru or Nicaraguan blends, like they're real kind of fruity like panicky kind of, or I like it as an almond milk latte where you go nutty that's why you like them but don't like milk coffee cuz kind of like brings it down. See you like both bands Don't you like smoking on to you were there in the forest. I was in the forest in the camp, you know? Turkey and mark you were? Yeah, you see it's interesting because interesting. Y

In this episode of Keep It Short, a short story discussion podcast, Casey and Larry jump into Keep It Short 17: Phil Klay's "Redeployment" from Granta Magazine and contemplate what we'd do if we had to put down our dogs. Sound fun? Really? Okay. Let's go! https://granta.com/redeployment/

Should you always answer truthfully when someone asks you this question. Have a listen.

This week, I'm talking about: How I'm feeling discouraged The need to feel successful A negative comment about technology and screentime Letting go and moving on I also share a story from my book, Radical Unschool Love, called The Beginning and End of Praise.  Is it okay to praise our kids? Could praise be necessary, not only for our children but for us as well?   Show Notes   My Unschooling Books Curious Unschoolers: Kindle Curious Unschoolers: paperback Radical Unschool Love: Kindle Radical Unschool Love: paperback My Amazon Author Page   Blog posts A Gradual Approach to Unschooling Is it Really Okay to Give Unschooling Kids Unlimited Access to Screens and the Internet?   Podcast Episode 162: Asking for Help    Thank you for listening to this episode. If you enjoy my podcast, please consider sharing the link so that we can spread the word about unschooling. A quick review or rating would help too! Please feel welcome to visit my blog Stories of an Unschooling Family to leave a comment about this episode.  Or you could just stop by and say hello!    

It’s too easy for us to say we’re great when we feel bad. Post divorce, I have bad days and good days. Do you ever admit to struggling or having a bad day? Let’s talk about it!

Hey there, friends! Welcome back to another Lonely Souls episode :) I share quite a bit on topics like auditing the people in your life, letting go of old connections, giving less f*@%$ about what other people think of you, and how we all feel lonely at times. I promise to always honestly talk about my struggles with an open and positive perspective. Hope y'all enjoy :) ~Erica Meetup Group: For All The Lonely Souls - Cleveland, OHBlog: www.calipoppies.com

Join Luke and Mark as they go beyond and continue their coverage of voume 11 of the My Hero Academia Manga by Kohei Horikoshi! In this episode we cover a lot of housekeeping before diving into chapter 97 "Tell It Like It Is, Mom" (13:55) and chapter 98 "Moving Into Dorms" (48:22).  You can email the podcast at Heronotespodcast@gmail.com! Check out Luke's My Hero Academia Reviews on friend of the show Weird Science's website! My Hero Academia Volume 21: https://www.weirdsciencedccomics.com/2019/10/my-hero-academia-volume-21-review.html My Hero Academia Vigilantes 6: https://www.weirdsciencedccomics.com/2019/10/my-hero-academia-vigilantes-volume-6.html MUSIC CREDIT: Soundtrack | Boku No Hero Academia - You Say Run Anime | My Hero Academia [僕のヒーローアカデミア] View on YouTube | https://youtu.be/BcIiEjEvpOE Music promoted by FBS Anime| https://goo.gl/DwdAxM Artist: Friedrich Habetler | https://soundcloud.com/friedrich-habe...          

Ketika hidupmu "baik-baik saja" terus, mungkin ada "sesuatu" yang salah.

Remember a few episode ago Pabilo shared that he recently saw a therapist? Well this week, it’s a follow up from that session and find out who else has seen a therapist and who will soon be seeing one! The experience, what they learned about themselves, how it’s helped them and how it made them feel are all points they unravel and share, honestly and openly. It’s DEFINITELY one not to be missed! 1. Main Topic – Therapy, the follow up! [1:28] 2. Book Recommendation – Shuwel - [30:00] ‘Man's Search For Meaning: The classic tribute to hope from the Holocaust’ by Viktor E Frankl Aʟʟ ᴠɪᴇᴡs ᴀʀᴇ ᴏᴜʀ ᴏᴡɴ If you have any feedback or topics you'd like us to discuss, please email us at takeflightpodcast@gmail.com Instagram @takeflightpodcast

No matter what you do, one day, somewhere out there, you're gonna do something that you wish you didn't. Unless you live the "No Ragrats" life, but even then, do you mean to tell me that you've never regretted anything in your life ever? Not even that 90's bowl cut that your neighbor got and you thought he was so cool so you got one too? Really?? Okay...? We also learn some "interesting" somewhat "concerning" things about what Jake does when he's not on the podcast.Guests: Jimmy, Jake, BrittanyTasty Morsels Horsehair PlasterDon't Tread On MeChalk and TumsCotton Picking Field TripWatch Django Unchained LEGALLY, JimmyHear something that you, loved, hated, laughed out loud at, cringed at, or just want to react to? Tweet us @ToonInEnt or email tooninentertainment@gmail.com!If you haven't already, please subscribe on whatever platform you listen from! If you're not sure how to do that, just head to toon-in-podcast.pinecast.co and click whatever method you want to use. While you're there, you might as well leave us a nice rating. It helps other people find us and makes my day 100x happier!If you would like to support the Toon In Podcast, please consider donating to our Patreon

Last week, CNN reported that Facebook and Instagram are shutting down all peer to peer sales of alcohol. This wasn’t a joke. In the span of 72 hours, all of the major bourbon groups were wiped out. The secondary market is synonymous with Facebook. The growth of bourbon’s popularity can be attributed to it as well by those that are in it to flip bottles. Owen Powell didn’t create the first group to buy, sell, and trade bourbon, but he certainly created the largest. The Bourbon Secondary Market group is no longer around on Facebook, but the story of how it was built, the ways discussions were moderated, and how it served as a data gold mine for valuations is told. We uncover the progression of the group from a few hundred members to reaching over 50,000, what leads to certain distilleries being banned on a black market, and if the secondary market will actually end if Facebook groups cease to exist. Show Partners: The University of Louisville now has an online Distilled Spirits Business Certificate that focuses on the business side of the spirits industry. Learn more at business.louisville.edu/onlinespirits. Barrell Craft Spirits has won a few medals at some of the most prestigious spirits competitions out there, but don’t take their word for it and find out for yourself. Learn more at BarrellBourbon.com. Check out Bourbon on the Banks in Frankfort, KY on August 24th. Visit BourbonontheBanks.org. Receive $25 off your first order at RackHouse Whiskey Club with code "Pursuit". Visit RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. Show Notes: This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about Parker's Heritage Collection. How did you get into bourbon? Talk about the growth of the group. Were there any growing pains? How many members are in the group? How many admins do you have? What do you look for in admins? Why do people have animosity towards admins in these groups? Let's talk about the rules in the group. How did the secondary raffle site become its own thing? How does a dispute come about? What do all the acronyms mean? What is the best way to handle a dispute? Have you ever had accusations of counterfeits? How do you handle that kind of situation? Why did you do an open group? Do you keep a log of all the transactions? You’ve banned a few distilleries. How are rules like that determined? Why do you run the group even though you don't get paid? What do you do when someone prices something too high? What about monthly dues? Do you think groups could end on Facebook? 0:00 Have you thought about a career in the whiskey industry? I'm not talking about being the next master distiller. But if you want a leg up on the competition, you need to take a look at the distilled spirits business certificate from the University of Louisville. This 30 week program will prepare you for the business side of the spirits industry like finance, marketing and operations. This is 100% online meaning you can access the classes at anytime and anywhere so what are you waiting for? Get signed up to make your next career move at business.louisville.edu/onlinespirits 0:35 people add their wives to the group and then immediately regret it because you know their wives mad at them they're always on their phone. wife gets in there sees how much they're spending on it then it's like when you kick my wife out know that you got to do figure that out on your own. I'm not getting in the middle of that. I think I might add my wife 0:52 to it because because being part of the podcast now I'm like, I gotta you gotta have a pulse on what's happening. So you know exactly uninvite. 1:10 Hey, this is Episode 212 of bourbon pursuit. I'm one of your hosts Kenny. And as usual, a little bit of news. On July 26 2019 beam Suntory broke ground on what is to become the friend be no craft distillery. It's part of a $60 million investment and what will become known as the James be distilling company and that can be located in Claremont, Kentucky. All of the building itself will be fresh construction. The brands that are gonna be produced at this new craft distiller are ones that were already familiar with like Booker's knob Creek and Basil Hayden's all as well as new brands such as little book and legend. Its name for the seventh generation master distiller Fred know which has been on the show few times before, and this new distillery will give know and his son Freddie the opportunity to experiment with new fermentation and distillation techniques. The distillery has also announced that they will be updating the visitor experiences with behind the scene looks at their brands, a new tasting room, and much more. Heaven Hill has announced the 13th release of the Parkers heritage collection, and this will be a heavy char rye whiskey. While 2:22 standard barrels and heaven Hill are a chart three the barrels the distillery used to age this rye our char five, that means they're burned for 50 seconds longer than a typical char three. The heavier char the easier it is for the whiskey to penetrate the wooden staves and take on those heightened open spice flavors. This new ride is going to be eight years old and nine months in these and was aged also in the seventh floor of Rick house why before being non shell filtered and bottled at 105 proof. The Parkers heritage collection is named after heaven Hill master distiller Parker beam, who passed away in 2017. After being diagnosed with ALS back in 2010. portions of the sale are donated to fund ALS research, and sales from the past six editions has raised over $1 million. The retail price set on this is going to be $150 MSRP. Ryan and myself are excited to announce that we are going to begin the process of opening a distribution of pursuit series in three states. You can look forward to Georgia, Texas, and of course Kentucky as the first states that we will be hitting the first barrel has been selected by Justin's House of bourbon with a second one quickly going into liquor barn, we're super excited to be able to bring our single barrel offerings at stores selections at first. And you can look for more information on stores in the States on our website at pursuit spirits.com. Now, don't worry if you aren't even in those states or Heck, even if you are you can still purchase your bottles and have them shipped to your door through our online retailer at sealed box dot com. You can go to pursuit spirits calm and click the Buy Now button and you'll be redirected to the site for that particular single barrel. Right now we only have about 20 bottles, let them stock but we're going to have a brand new September release, so get ready for it. Last week, CNN reported that Facebook and Instagram are shutting down all sales of alcohol, cigarettes and other similar things like e cigarettes. And this wasn't a joke in the span of around 72 hours. Half of the bourbon groups that I belong to were wiped out. Many of the larger secondary groups with 30 to 50,000 members were gone immediately in over the next 24 hours more disappeared. And even some groups that sold or raffled charitable causes for bottles were gone as well. We can't say for sure if this is the end of the Facebook secondary market, but it sure is a swift kick to it. Immediately following the demise of the large groups. Many of the smaller ones with less than 3000 members change their names, they also change the rules. And while multitudes of even more smaller groups started to emerge, it's uncertain if we'll ever see a group with over 20,000 members ever again. And that's kind of why we decided to release this podcast, the secondary market, it's synonymous with Facebook. This can also be attributed to the growth of Bourbons popularity by those that are captivated at some of the values that some of these bottles Dr. ON pal didn't create the first group to buy, sell and trade bourbon, but he certainly created the largest, the bourbon secondary market group is no longer around. But the story of how it was built, the way discussions were moderated and how it served as a data gold mine for valuations is a story that needs to be told. we uncover the progression of the group from 100 members to reaching over almost at the time it was cease to exist as around 50,000. And really, we're also going to talk about what leads to certain distilleries also being banned on this black market and at the secondary market will actually end Facebook's cease to ever exist again. Now you're done listening to me. So let's go ahead and listen to Joe over a barrel bourbon. And then you've got Fred Minnick 6:12 with above the char. 6:15 Hey, everyone, Joe here again. Our Bourbons have won a few medals, some of the most prestigious spirits competitions out there. But don't take their word for it. Find out for yourself. Use the store locator and barrellbourbon.com. 6:28 I'm Fred Minnick. And this is above the char. This past week, I posted a photo of the new Parker's heritage release. It was like a lot of PR release images. It was shiny. It told you all about the new whiskey. And it came with a price tag hundred and 4999. So pretty drastic increase from past Parker's heritage releases past releases were around 89 to $100. So you're looking at about a 50 to 60 you know, dollar price increase depending on what market you live in. People on my Instagram went crazy. I mean, maybe not crazy, but they were very upset with the price increase. And I had people writing me saying that this is solving Parker's good name. As many people know, I was really quite close with Parker been before he passed away. And it got me to thinking about where we are in bourbon right now. There's actually price increases across the board, not just with these really nice bottles like Parker's heritage, and the Buffalo Trace antique collection. But you're seeing it like an everyday Bourbons. I remember when I used to find four roses small batch for like $20. Now it's a $40 bottle. Now, some of that is on the retailer's for selling it to that price. But the fact is Bourbons that are 40 $50, I used to pay 15 to $25. for them. That is where we are. But I'm curious, I've been curious as to how much that might actually impact the retention of consumers. So I did a little digging. And as it turns out, if you are running a business and you are selling a product, one of the best things you can do is increase your price. In fact, they say that people actually grow their profits, and they also grow their consumer base. So according to this thing called the McKinsey report, it suggests that for basically like every 1% of increase in price can yield an 8% increase in profits. But these reports and all these people who are talking who are studying price increases also preach transparency. They say, Tell your people tell your customer base, why you're increasing the price? Did your costs go up? Did you have a bad loss in the previous quarter? And you're trying to make up for it? Why are you increasing prices, if you don't start telling your consumers, especially the bourbon consumers who have been with you from the very beginning, why you're increasing your prices, you will start to see a massive boycott. I'm talking about the kind of boycott you find on social media that ends up trending and people will no longer be buying your bottles. And that new consumer you think you might get because you're increasing the price and you're not coming off as cheap. Well, that person is going to be googling who you are when they're in the total wine or whatever liquor store. And when they Google you and they find out you've been increasing your prices 50 600% they're going to walk away and they're going to go to something else. In today's day and age, you cannot increase a price almost 100% and get away with it. Consider this some free advice to Bourbons everywhere. Keep your prices affordable. So the everyday person can buy them. If you want to have really ultra expensive products, create a new product and brand it to be ultra ultra expensive. But going from $89 to 150. It's just not good. It's a bad optic. So be thoughtful with your pricing and be transparent. You'll be rewarded by customers who love your product. And that's this week's above the char. Hey, did you know that I'm also curating hometown rising a country music festival that's featuring Tim McGraw, Luke Bryan Keith Urban and Little Big Town, go check it out at hometown rising.com. I'll be on the stage and you can hit me up and have a drink with me. Until next week. Cheers. 10:52 Welcome back to the new episode of bourbon pursuit, the official podcast of bourbon, Kinney and Ryan here today talking about us subject that is very familiar to the bourbon culture and the whiskey geek culture. Because if anybody is really getting to bourbon, you've probably gone down your aisles, you see a lot of the regular stuff that's out there, you start getting really influenced by all of it and you want to learn more about it, then you learn about, we've talked about our own journeys into this, you learn about limited releases, and how hard it is to get your hands on limited releases. And when you get down to that path, everything all leads to one one sort of in gate here. And that's the secondary market. 11:36 Yes. 11:38 Well, you start out and you're like excited, you know, you found the Weller, you know, Elijah Craig barrel proof. And then you're like, well, what else is there, and then you gotta get bored with the stuff that you can find, then you're like, then people inches, like you introduce me to the Facebook world. And like, I was like, Oh, my God. It's like a Pandora's box. And that's how I got introduced to dust ease and all the limitations, and it's like, it's the best thing that's ever happened. Yeah, and the worst thing 12:03 is the best, worst thing you know, and we'll we'll talk about, you know, really our guest, because he is he's really the ones that as kind of spearhead and really grown this movement. But you know, just on the topic of dusty, I remember getting into the secondary market. And this is this was like, early 2014 timeframe when I was introduced to it. And this is before I think even this group was around that that became the largest one, he had all these secret code name groups that you got into. And I remember seeing dusty, and people were paying like 100 bucks for some 1970s old grand, I bought an 86 Oh, granted for 75 bucks, like in 2015. I bought, like, I bought like three or four of them. And but I was looking at it back then I was like, What moron is I know. 12:49 There's a 999 sticker on it, like 12:54 10 towns that but now it's like, why didn't about all of them? 12:57 Oh, gosh, I'm sure we all have some of these stories. So let's go ahead and introduce our guests today. So our guest today was one of the founders or is one of the founders of the largest secondary group that's out there on Facebook. So Ellen Pao of bourbon secondary market, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. Well, thank you for coming on. And you know, really kind of giving us a behind the scenes look of, of what really happens here. And, and just to make sure that everybody's clear, like, oh, it is not sitting here like advocating but he does this he kind of just operates a community. Right? And that's really what it is. And it doesn't matter if it was him or anybody else like this is going to thrive and exist no matter what, 13:35 no matter the channel no matter what. Absolutely. 13:38 So before we kind of dive into that, oh, and let's talk about kind of your past like how did you get into bourbon? How did you kind of find your way into into the scene? 13:49 See, I got into bourbon probably around seventh grade, just kind of like parents houses. 13:57 Usually people 13:59 get you're like, 14:01 like liquor cabinet. And, you know, us doing appreciate the corner. Yeah. But that was just, I mean, that's when I first got into it, then there was a pretty good time that I quit drinking it just because I had bad experience in high school and kind of just like, oh, not doing that. So it's usually when people have those 14:21 variances. And 14:22 then I guess freshman year in college, I worked at liquor barn in Lexington, and I was like, I'm gonna go out and get on, try and get back into this, you know, put it behind me got a bottle of Elijah Craig 18 for 50 bucks. It's like, I can't believe I'm spending this much. You know, went home had a party, we mixed it with Coke, you know, did shots of it just, it was, you know, one of those 1980 ones that were really good. Corey Putnam just chugs all the time. 14:54 And, you know, you look back and you're thinking like, Man, I wish I had that bottle of appreciation 14:58 anymore. You know, of course. The whole everybody looks at it, like a stock with they bought it when it first came out. Yeah, you know, but it is what it is. I 15:08 only bought Apple when it first came out. 15:11 Right? Yeah. $10 wouldn't, you know, but, uh, so and then, I guess, getting my education in hospitality, you know, I was managing restaurants and hotels, and in that kind of just the whole food and beverage thing just led me into spirits and naturally just 15:34 kind of evolved and got 15:36 naturally just start a secondary group. 15:40 I mean, we can get into that. And that that was a that was mostly because of back when you like we were talking about 2014. You heard of the group, she if you were in like bourbon info exchange, people will talk about it. But you got to know somebody to get in. I didn't know. I didn't know anything. You know, I was like, screw it. You know, I woke up at like, five in the morning Didn't you know, I was like, I couldn't get back to sleep. Like, I'm just I'm going to do it. Public, you know, all these secret groups. Why do you know why not? and it blew up. And I immediately became the guru and I didn't know it. People send me. They just assumed because I created this group. I knew everything. Yeah. So you know, they send a picture of this to me, what is this? How much is it worth? I have no idea. You know, like, Yeah, what is it? So all I do is Google. What is it? And I got educated, self educated on all the dust DS and fake it to every naked, you know? Yeah. I mean, I wanted to learn myself, I was intrigued by Why is, you know, why are people paying, you know, so? And then it just, it just kept getting bigger and bigger. And, you know, yeah, it didn't stop people rioted, that I let it be not secret, or, you know, and not bringing it to the forefront. And I think it did a lot. I mean, I think it affected the industry a good. 17:01 Oh, absolutely. I mean, I think I think that's what the secondary does. I mean, there's there's 17:05 brands that get like, totally thank the secondary model. Yeah, they're like, 17:09 I mean, yeah, I mean, it helps them evaluate exactly what they have in and maybe they start realizing everything's undervalued. Like, yeah, that was the that's probably the biggest thing. Communities had a huge impact on the black culture like do you think like old scout and like them county would ever be a thing without a bourbon secondary market? like it'd be tough to say yeah, I really would be it even be tougher to say that. Even would would group pics or store pics even have a place to be that are becoming that are, I guess you'd say sought after? Yeah. Because if you see something, and it's it's, it's got a group name on it, you're like, Oh, I immediately have that I've never seen it before. I remember for myself coming on to the secondary market with the first time. I remember seeing the Willett family estate bottles, just, you know, just the regular ones. And this is right as right as when the foil tops started taking over. So they're still wax ones in circulation. And I'm like, I've never seen these bottles before. I've never really seen them before. And so I'm I'm sitting there, I'm always going around the stores, trying to check them out. Trying to find these, you know, 10 910 14 year will family states. And I'm getting one in like Northern Kentucky. Like, I don't know, probably in late 2014, late early 2015 from the party source. But I didn't know like the whole entire time I could have just been driving to Bardstown. I mean, the whole time I could have been doing that. And so it was it was an edge. It's an educational experience as well for people that come into it. And just another education experience. I remember everybody's got their their Blanton story. You find Blanton's, you start learning about he learned about the letters in the horses in the bottle shape, and you come and trade with it. And then you learn out like, Oh my god, there's a barrel proof version. But you can't get the United States. How do I get my hands on it? 18:55 Like, how do you get a whole barrel on it? 19:00 It's exactly I mean, that's exactly like the the curiosity that gets sparked out of a community like this. So kind of talk about the hyper growth of what it was. And were there any kind of growing pains along with it. There were too many growing pains. It was just 19:20 occasionally we get to a point where like, I guess some of that some admins are like, Man, I'm having a baby now I don't have time for this. You know, I think it's kind of weird. Having admins leave because they they they really feel like they're getting noticed that a job. One of them like, Man, I've been trying to tell you this for a month now. 19:43 I don't care what kind of severance 19:45 do yeah, like, 19:47 I need an extra. 19:49 But uh, so yeah, it's only growing pains as as it got bigger. We just had to take on more admins. So what would you say you started start? 20 20:00 1415? And now how many about how many members are roughly? 20:04 About 35,000 35,000? 20:06 Yeah. 20:08 So do you have like a certain amount admins part? Thousand? Do you have like a like ratio 20:14 already have a certain amount of admins and time zones? Okay. That makes looking for West Coast because, you know, and then there's other things that we look for? What do they do during the day? Are you like a firefighter? Are you sitting in a firehouse for hours on end doing nothing but looking at Facebook or your hair? You know, really tech industry? Yeah. But, uh, so that's one of those are some of the things. And one of the things I told everybody, I was like, we don't want to hire anybody that actually comes to us and says they want to do it. Because then, you know, we actually did hire a guy that it you know, there's no wrong, you know, 20:57 some ulterior motive and, 20:59 and we there was, and but, you know, and it's just kind of a, you really got to be level headed, and most importantly, thick skin. Because if I mean, essentially, Europe, a boss of, I want to, I won't say it's a company, but I've, you know, you have to create these rules to keep the riffraff out. And then someone breaks one. And you're like, well, you broke the rules. Sorry, you got to go. But, and they've been drinking all night, and they're pissed. And then they, they've got to, you know, create a spoof accounts of your own Facebook or, you know, I had one admin leave because his kids were pictured him pictures of him and his kid were posted everywhere on their fake account, just like really, you know, sleazy stuff, but, I mean, it's, I mean, I kind of, I don't care what people say, doesn't bother me too much. You know, I just decided to keep doing what I'm doing. 21:57 Yeah, I mean, I guess it is tough. Because you're dealing in a market where these aren't, these aren't grandma's that are just knitting sweaters. Like these are, these are, these are, for the most part, a lot of grown men drink whiskey, and 22:11 it's an online bar, they have 22:13 seniors, and they have opinions. And they're very strong about them, too. And they 22:17 have a lot of liquid courage. That 22:20 in when you when you're behind the screen, and a keyboard that amplifies liquid courage is there's no repercussions really, except maybe a message back. 22:28 I mean, I've gotten into arguments online with people, you know, and then met them in person here. One guy, I, you know, he's his name will call him bow. And he came up here with Jamie from Lincoln Road, and we went to I went to a bourbon tasting that night and hung out with him. And you know, ha, mon, and I was like, Oh, hell, you know, me and him really got into it. And we went out drinking. I was playing Jamie and ping pong. He was cheering me on. He was all on my side. But the third bar was get to He's like, I go up to him. I was like, Can we bury this online hatchet, and he's like, Oh, we have a beef online. I was like, Yeah, he's like, what's your last name? I'm like, pow. Just started cousin. Oh. 23:16 Yeah, man. 23:19 God, I mean, he's a good guy. But so it's one of those things. It's like, Oh, they hate you. They hate you. But if you actually meet them in person, pretty much everybody's good people. But behind that keyboard, liquid current. Oh, yeah. FUFQFU. You know, you're the devil, you ruined bourbon. 23:34 Why do you think why do you think people do like have that animosity? I mean, it's and I know that you end up having to not post under your own personal accounts anymore. You do an inner page account to try and kind of hide and make sure the admins aren't aren't necessarily targeted anymore. So why is it that I mean, at this point, you are the godfather of the BSNV. Like that's, I think it's everybody love 23:59 that title, everybody. Hey, 24:01 everybody kind of understands your name. And when they see it, like, like, anytime it happens, like there's their posts, flurry that happens, but there's also some people that that hates you for no reason. Do you? Any idea? 24:13 I think it now, no, not really. I mean, I kind of see it as like, I know, I guess kind of the culture that everybody's gone through in the last six years of, you know, they don't care what they bought, you know, they've already made up their mind. They they're going to judge you for whatever it is that they think is true. And if they're presented with facts about the actual situation, you know, cognitive dissonance just goes in and they don't, you know, right ever, you know, yeah, I could be Mother Teresa. 24:51 You know, you ruin burden. If mother 24:53 teresa Rana face well, and when you're, 24:55 you're, you know, you're you're separated by a screen and you're not looking and talking to each. It really? Yeah, because you take the human element out of it is that you're like, you know, you can't it's if I'm sitting here Yeah, I'm not gonna yell at you for in person, but it might be a little easier. 25:12 Well, you know, I've never met you. I don't know you. I don't care. Right? Exactly. Yep, for sure. 25:21 So let's let's kind of talk about the rules a little bit because the one thing about bsm is that you're in compared to other groups like it's, it's a lot of like, no nonsense, like, this is what you're here for. You're here to buy bid. And that's it, like, no talk, no discussion. So kind of talk about the rules that that were in place and why they made them place like that. 25:42 So the the no discussions came up in a lot of rules were just formed by some of them sending me a pm saying, why don't you do this. And one of them was, I hate seeing discussions, when I'm only here to buy or look for something in particular. And the group's gotten so big, just, you got rid of it, I mean, then go somewhere else. And I was like, that's a great point, you know, bourbon or, or info, exchange, go there and talk about it. Here. We're one thing. So that's how that that happened. In a lot of the rules just were developed as we evolved. And just, I mean, people wanted it a certain way, it was mostly majority ruled on how things evolved, you know, from other groups and 26:26 stuff like that. And then you also have the secondary site that was doing kind of like raffles and all that sort of stuff. How did that sort of spin out and become its own separate thing? 26:38 saying basically, same thing, it's it's mucking up what a majority of people were there for. So it was like, we were just here for the bourbon, we want to buy it. That's what I want to I don't like gambling. I don't want you know, it's it's mucking up my area. So in the whole gambling thing, aspect, that's like a whole nother of great legal things that's going on. Doing a couple of things wrong there. And so I mean, that's that was just a separate it, you know, kind of 27:07 one of the first ones to do raffling different department. 27:10 I can't remember. I mean, I saw there was there was somebody in the community. I know that ran a group for a while he has since passed on. There not don't name names. Yeah, just for the sake of it. I mean, I remember it was red balls or whatever. Yeah, red balls or something like that. I forget. But there was there was there was those days and it I don't know like for I'll pass it to you guys. What would you rather do? Would you rather sit there and gamble on something or buy it outright if it's something you want? 27:40 Well, at first it was I won like my like first, like, like one out of 30. So I was like, This is amazing. Proceed to lose like 50 X in a row. And so then I quickly realized that let's just not a gamble. And let's just take the money that you would gamble and buy what you actually want and get it so it I'd rather much buy it now 28:02 then do it. I like I don't gamble at all with it. So I mean, I had no interest in in that help separate it too. And mostly the group ran it's the raffle group ran itself. And then people started getting crazy. We'll do a bottle bus was put in a bottle and then and then they're all gambling. So then they start someone owes someone a bottle, then they gamble with that bottle before it's even been shipped. And then it's like a cluster of who owns what where it was, you know, it's just like, so 28:34 it's it's kind of like I'm ready to double down. I didn't ever believe in those randomized. Like, I just still don't like mega ball ones. You know, it's like public knowledge. What's What's the number? Yeah. 28:47 So you were talking about just you know, who has what bottle and whatnot. I know that there are there's always disputes. kind of talk about what happens or how does the dispute come about sometimes? 29:03 A lot of times the biggest popcorn, 29:05 right. Explain popcorn to for people that don't understand that. 29:08 Yeah, remember? Yeah, explain. Because when I first saw you see like coronas and popcorn. And I'm like, What is all this mean? Like, yeah, go over the targets for the 29:17 words just means at the end of five minutes to go and your auction that you've created. If someone bids in that five minutes last five minutes, it extends the auction another five. And it just helps. You know, people are watching TV at home and 10 o'clock at night and they forget. Oh, someone did it. I can get in and you know, so it helped push it along and drive up the price but kind of stops that a little bit of the the eBay sniping kind of riots it does. You know if that happened, kindness, just Continental United State, cheap way to our easy way to say I'm paying for your shipping. I don't know where the the list of all the acronyms were created. came from somewhere before bsm came around and years before that. So you know there's I mean, those groups have been going around for 30:08 Yeah, I love the i's and T's and 30:11 GCS. Yeah, you gotta learn everything. That's I think that's, that's almost like a rite of passage we are getting into the bourbon world is that if you if you go to somebody and you start talking all this vernacular, and they don't understand that you're like, 30:24 welcome to the club. I think I won like an auction. And then I didn't realize what popcorn was. And somebody when I was like, wait a minute, I wanted it's time it went off, you know, but I didn't understand the rules. And it's kind of like read roll 13.0 and I was like, Oh, okay. Not this one in your videos. Another one. 30:41 I just discovered one. Last week, some South Carolina guys came up. And they were calling old Weller antique Ola. And I'm like, I've only heard it. Oh, da, I guess it's a, you know, different level. I've always heard of ODA, but apparently everywhere else they call it Oh, my God. You know, the vernacular, 31:01 it changes. That's for sure. Yep. So So kind of talking about what happens in a dispute, like what Ryan said, If there is, if there is something that somebody bids, but then somebody says like, nope, nope, it's over. Like, how, how does it when does an admin need to get involved in a situation? 31:18 Well, we wrote the rules. So hopefully, that they don't have to get an admin involved. But and they can people can will, you know, show the rules. It didn't, you didn't win it. Because here's the rule. It says, you know, after five minutes, it's over of no bidding. So, you know, you can check the timestamp of someone posting in that and determine if you actually did bit in time or not. So, I mean, things like that. If they're disputed, it might be well, the package says delivered, but it's not on my front porch, whereas Well, I know where it is. Someone stole it, you know, 31:54 who handles that part? 31:56 I mean, and you've even got the the drivers might steal it. I've had that happen. I know. You know, I was waiting for a package and excited that it was coming and got a notification that it was delivered in like, No, it wasn't, I'm literally by the front door. never showed up. So I bitter about that. FedEx. 32:13 Yeah. But I mean, is there is there a reason that admins have to step in the in a situation like that when a package is lost? Like 32:22 a? Not? Yes. Because usually the guy that ships it, they're responsible until it says delivered. And, or if it breaks during shipping, you know, the guy might open the package, and it's all busted. And he's like, Hey, this is broken, or the seal broke, and it's a collector's item, and I want it in mint condition. They'll they'll accuse, you know, the seller might accuse them of tampering with it, they just want a free bottle out of me or, you know, they're lying. This is bowl, you know, 32:54 Haven, they just have blue bears the liability and the Alicia Burton tell 32:58 if it's broken up, it's okay. You threw in, you know, three pieces of newspapers packing material, and it's broken, you know, come over here. Yeah, you know, and then a lot of the packaging suggestions that I gave actually came I used to work in a UPS hub one summer in Lexington. And I mean, I literally saw packages falling 30 feet concrete floor off these conveyor belts that get jammed up, and they just pack just are overflowing and just falling crashing down. So I was like, immediately, okay, I know how to pack a bottle from now, you know, you can't overpack in, you know, you really should you know it. Things like that happen all the time. So, it just, 33:39 I prefer their bottle packs their 33:42 wine wine bottle shipper things. 33:44 Yeah. Cool until I someone's like, showed me a bottle that they just, it kind of gives a false sense of security. Yeah. And they don't they don't throw anything else in there. And 33:54 well, y'all will have one of those in and then I put the popcorn around it or not popcorn, whatever. The styrofoam plate Stockholm, peanuts, peanuts. 34:02 Yeah. So in that situation, it's it's kind of it's up to the buyer to try to make it right. In a situation like that. Now, we've also seen it in some of the How 34:12 do you make it right, though? 34:13 Like, it's it's either reading under. 34:16 So if it's broken, it's refund the money if, if the tech strips broken world, it's kind of like you ask the buyer? Did you buy it to drink it? Or did you buy it to throw it on your massive wall? And, you know, whatever the answer is usually, okay. Well, then we take $50 for the, you know, crack seal, right? or something, you know, because 34:38 you're going to drink up to them to figure out the Yeah. 34:42 Yeah, we direct them to figure it out themselves got 34:45 you're not like the Better Business Bureau where they're like, they're like, have a dispute. And 34:50 you don't you don't have to resolve and 34:52 that's it. I was I was gonna think they're like a mediation court. You will, you know, like, you're going like husband and wife are going through divorce. Let's get together. No room real quick. 35:02 Yeah, I've had that quite a bit, actually. People add their wives to the group, and then immediately regret it. Because you know, their wives mad at them. They're always on their phone. wife gets in there sees how much they're spending on it, then it's like, well, you kick my wife out. Know that you got to do figure that out on your own. I'm not getting in the middle of that. And then divorces have come up. No way. Oh, yeah. Like, those wives know how much that collections worth. And you're getting into a divorce for whatever you did wrong, or whatever happened. That's, you know, needs to be split up. So then they want me to kick their wives out so they can let them know what they're selling or, you know, just like crazy. It's like, I'm not No, sorry. Sorry about your luck. you dug your hole. You know, that's my, my problem. Well, I didn't know that. There's a lot of that's something that I think about I think I 35:51 might add my wife to it because because being part of the podcast and I'm like, I gotta you gotta have a pulse on what's happening. So you know, exactly uninvite jacket. 36:03 I forgot she had it sees. 36:05 So I guess another thing is, you know, there's a, there's another thing that always happens, these groups that people call out other people, they'll say, you know, they'll tag and say like, Jimmy Joe, he's, he's a, he's a shifted, he's not he has a, you 36:19 know, good pair. 36:20 Well, I know that are like, I bought something. And then it's been two weeks, and he hasn't shipped it out. And he's not responding back to messages. Like, is that the right thing to do? Or is it like, 36:32 the worst thing to do? If If there's something going on, sometimes there's something actually happened, man, I've been in the hospital. That happens, it happened to me once and I had to take a picture of my armband and send it to do I'll ship your bottle out, it's just going to be a little while I don't know when. But uh, usually someone's if they might be scamming Omen or something like that. calling them out is the worst thing is he'll just piss them off. And if they have a conscience, and we're going to actually they messed up and they were actually having attention to get get you back, well, our refund you or something, calling them out, just ruined your chances. Best thing is to conduct admin and say, Hey, this is what's going on. And then we can reach up and I mean, I'll just send a message, Hey, yo, this bottle what's going on, you know, not a no accusations, I want to hear your side because a lot of times, there's, it's not their fault or something, you know, whatever. So, I mean, you do have to be diplomatic and not assume whatever you're being told is that the whole story and go to the other side. And most the time, it works out fine. And they solve the problem. Occasionally, someone just, you know, turned into a drug addict and is stealing or, you know, ripping people off. But we've done a good job of like letting people into the group, it tells you when like when someone tries to join the group, it tells you how pretty much everything where they where they live? Are they a member of any other groups that you're a member of? Are they friends with anybody? How windows? When did they create the Facebook page or in just all kinds of things? So if you're just created this in the last year, you're not getting? You know, if you're created the Facebook in the last two years? Why did you just create Facebook? And you know, all right. 38:30 around for a while, I know you're in your mid 30s? You 38:33 should know Yeah, exactly. So the and so we will have them prove their identity. Sometimes if their accounts really, you know, just send us a photo, a picture of your photo, Id block out all your pertinent information, we just need to see you actually who you are, you know, somebody that you're not afraid to. And now these days, you can if you have that information, just like a name and a city. You can find them on their address, every relative for free note, you know, not some search site, white pages. com. It's all 39:06 out there. So it's like LinkedIn work. So if you ever add accusations of counterfeits or frauds. 39:15 Hey, it's Kenny here and I want to tell you about the Commonwealth premier bourbon tasting and awards festival. It will be happening on August 24. In Frankfort, Kentucky. It's called bourbon on the banks. You get to enjoy bourbon beer and wine from regional and national distilleries while you stroll the banks along the scenic Kentucky River. 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And there's been people that have done it that we just thought I like I went to this guy's house and got a bottle off of them. About a single project for 60 bucks or something. And house he's living in a $400,000 house in which in Louisville is pretty good sized house 30,000 square feet or so maybe bigger, nice part of town comes from a wealthy family, well known family. And you just wouldn't think he would be doing that. But I you know, who knows what motivates people to commit fraud? 41:45 So in a situation like that, where people have been wrongs, for say, like buying a buying a counterfeit on the page? Is there any? 41:57 Right? How does it How does it go about to try and make people whole or anything like that it's like, man like this is this is a black market, you get what you get immediate action from an admin is if that accusation is made, we immediately ban you, or stop you from being able to because we don't want to keep, you know, until we find out what's really going on. And there's been times where, yeah, I bought that. Yeah, I sold him that bottle. I got it from this guy who's also in the group in this transaction. And you can see me buying that tree. Yeah, and you know, and then it's like a, these bottles have been passed around for 10 people in the same group in three months. You know, 42:33 that's what I always say about the secondary, it's like, it all just stays in the group. Like, it's, it's like, we're all transferring and firing the same bottles. Like, it's funny how they pass around that. So 42:42 yeah, there's, I mean, there's some guys out there that do incredible work chasing these people down and finding out where the counterfeits are coming and how they're happening. And and 42:55 they're those five fighters or send on 42:58 Facebook every day. Well, I mean, it's just good that there's people like that, that they find enjoyment out of doing it, right. And they they either they find enjoyment, or it's maybe they're doing it to protect their own ass, because they do have a very large stake in bourbon. And they've got to make sure that what they have is still keeping its value as it goes. So two sides of that coin. Now, there's also times that we just talked about that people finagle people out of money. Somebody says buy it now you say sure sounds good. Take your PayPal, Facebook account deleted, I've got my money and run. What do you what do you do to help? Or is there a way to help those buyers either become whole? Or is it kind of like, Man, that's it? 43:41 Sorry? I'm hanging out with PayPal? 43:45 Is there a BSM community pool? where people are refunded like No, I mean, it's interrupt your own risk type of thing. I mean, there's not really a safeguard to protect you. And we tried to hope, prevent as much as we can by screening the people that come in there. But there's, I mean, there's an inherent risk, you're gonna, you have to assume when you go into it, yeah, especially, what's your legal recourse at that point to? Well, we're gonna go, you're gonna, you know, it's kind of like, tell me what, Wise Guys, you know, what are you gonna do about it? 44:19 You gotta kind of look at the history of you know, those trends, 44:22 right, and the whole vouching for what they're building? Yeah, I need a reference Jacqueline, this dude that, you know, yeah, that helps a lot. 44:30 In speaking of something like that, I just kind of thought of this to, you know, when you started this group, you also started in a way that was a lot different than others. Some other ones, like the old days, that's not around, which was BX people would go in there and they would post bottles, and you would, they wouldn't be transparent. It would say, like, you want to sip or you want to taste and that means it's for sale, or if it's for trade, and you would be post in the comments, or whatever it is, and everything what happened through PM, right? When when you built this site, it was almost completely opposite. It's like, full transparency, open market sort of thing. What was the idea of doing that versus kind of like keeping it behind these sort of like, secret code words? 45:15 One I didn't, I didn't know about the code words, because I wasn't able to get into those. And that's the whole reason it was created. And the whole transparency thing, you know, as like, after I started it, and it was starting to take off. I was like, What is Facebook's policy on this? So I found it. And it literally said, You must be at least 18 years old to buy alcohol, you know, sell alcohol and buy it on Facebook? And I'm just kind of scratching my head, okay. Oh, maybe they're just seeing it as an international company. And well, we're not really in it. And then it changed to 21 then it they said, Okay, now you can't do it. On marketplace, and now it's a at all so we'll see what happens. And I think I lot of that most recent changes, probably has to do with the legal trouble. Facebook and Zuckerberg or or in with the Justice Department and their his emails were leaked, and he might be in a lot of trouble. So I think Facebook legal team is just like, okay, no more chicken groups and gun groups, like, whatever, all these crazy little white, there's chicken group. There's like cockfighting and stuff. No, like, what are they like? Not heirloom. But, you know, crazy breeds of chickens that like rednecks are collecting that happened, really, but they don't they don't they don't let it pass for everything. I was like, I remember a secondary market like it like a like a Facebook 46:42 ad that said, like, find your people like there's there's groups for everybody. And I didn't know that. 46:48 So I just heard about that. Because I mean, when groups get shut down there, apparently there really is a history like a what Facebook normally does, and they take out the big one, and then they let it because all these groups, you know, all these little sub small groups, all those people are usually in the biggest group. So take out the biggest group and everyone will find out and maybe they'll go away or whatever. The term. Yeah, now I gotta roll down here. 47:17 I mean, in this also, like, I know, there was a huge opioid crisis that was happening through Facebook as well. I mean, there's people buy sell trade, you know, illegal drugs and stuff. I mean, those those groups go fast. But that's, that's sort of the way that the world works, I guess. And then so another way that those was a lot different from other groups as well. So there was another group that's it's still out there today. So I'm not going to put a name to it. But they always wanted to try and keep a record of, of transactions and sales, and it was all done online. And that's kind of what also fueled bottle Blue Book calm and everything like that. So kind of talk about why you said like, or just said, like, I'm not gonna, we'll just like, if you want to know, something, just research search it, right, instead of having to own a catalog or an Excel spreadsheet. 48:13 Yeah, it won't, I don't want to maintain it. Is 48:18 I mean, it doesn't pay anything to sit here and you know, play around on it. 48:21 Yeah. But the other thing is that also, you know, that that data was also used in some research studies to actually see how the prices of bourbon had been affected from years of just, you know, actually having a particular bottle and seeing how evaluated over the years, seeing how different types of bottles, you know, changed in value over the years. 48:43 Yeah, what was it like the average return was like, 200% on in, like, just a two year span? Something like that. Yeah, 48:50 it was crazy. I mean, some maintenance sucks. That's, 48:53 yeah, I just didn't want to spend time doing it. But in I felt like bottle blue, but does a really good job of you know, I don't I haven't been on there and years and but just because the history and in my group got so big, I didn't need to, and it was probably more current, because 49:09 you can search any, like thing, right? stir the group? 49:14 Yeah, if you can, if you can just run the search button and know you right, or exactly know how to filter. I mean, you can you can find pretty much anything but yeah, there was, I don't know really who's running pooper. So if somebody like us yet, there's another transaction and BSMNE to go and enter this NL 49:29 introduced into the toilet. Like, I'm always wondering, like Wikipedia, like, it's crowdfunding, like, Who the hell goes takes your time to fill out a Wikipedia page? You know, I'm 49:38 sure there's a lot of people out there. I mean, if you have a 49:41 if you have passion towards that topic, 49:43 exactly. I mean, I guess 49:45 it also has with Wikipedia, you get I mean, it's like a credibility and a point system, like, it says, you know, like Ryan Cecil did this, right? So so you get you get a little little badge or a star on your shoulder, I guess you could say, if you want to do that. 50:00 One thing I wanted to bring up and wild turkeys a good example. How the market affect your like, we hinted at it, but how the secondary market helps companies see where their brands going. I was doing a barrel pick at wild turkey several years ago. And I was talking to Eddie about the secondary market. He's like, yeah, I'm in that group. I love watching those bottles and what they sell for, you know, like, really, he's like, Yeah, and I got to thinking, I was like, you know, your name's not in my group. So he's under some, I don't know what he's under. But uh, and then I got to thinking about wild turkey in their high end premium brands that they release. They don't like, they don't work. They're out on the shelf at 350. And they might sit there for up to a year, but it'll finally all sell. He feel like they see these brands nudging up and know, okay, we put it out here, we'll be able to maximize our profits and smart business in my opinion, but 51:01 it is it is a way that companies can gauge what's happening. Yeah, I mean, it's, 51:07 it's totally, totally took off the secondary market to raise raise prices, both heaven hills doing it, everybody's doing it. They see the value? Well, it's the first ones that were like, all right. We don't image that. Yeah, 51:20 well, I mean, the other thing is, is when you look at just what these Facebook groups are able to do in general is is it not only just helps with value, but also helps with prediction of the changing consumer? Like what do what do all these people, what are they gravitating towards? I'm sure you can look at the stats that happens when you sell a pallet to a distributor, and that distributor gets it out to the the stores. But it's kind of hard to kind of track that data and you kind of hard to see like what people are saying about it, however, you go to an online forum. And you see some kind of like, let's take like Bill need honey, for example. Like, I saw honey, and I kind of like whatever, honey, 52:02 yeah, flavored whiskey, and then 52:04 and then all of a sudden, you know, in Nashville is a whole other thing. You get this whole group in Nashville that that seems to kind of create other little like a tornado of, of I don't know what you would call it, but somehow they're able to hype a lot of stuff up. And now bill need honey trades for like four or 500 bucks. And I'm like, how, how is this even possible? Because I wouldn't I wouldn't have find myself like particularly interested in it. But if you look at what the market does and what it's valued at, they're probably like, Oh, shit, we better add some more honey, these barrels, you know, I don't really know, like, that's a process. But it's a way that they can see they can gauge exactly what what consumers are gravitating towards. So yeah, for sure, another way to look at it. So there's a there's another kind of way to if we if we look at the the group that you had built as well, there's particularly one, maybe there's a few others of distilleries that you've banned from being inside the group, as well as like, these bottles are not allowed to be traded. You know, we don't need to give them a platform and say like, let's talk about who that is. But is there a reason why that you would go through and say, I think we need to put our foot down and we shouldn't have these type of bottles be on here or on my market? 53:18 Yeah, so one, we're bourbon secondary market. So we keep it it just whiskey. There, though, I guess one that everybody knows. And it's thinking about, we I, I was getting really pissed off at all the people that were thread shooting on, every time one of these bottles came up, as I got in, and they're just, I didn't even know what they were fighting over. I just got tired of hearing about it. And then I heard there might be market manipulation, and I was just like, screw it band. And then I heard about all these things coming out about someone going in and doing a barrel pic with the secret camera and, and trash cans and whatever. I was like, I didn't know that. And then of course, everybody assumed was that, you know, I was just tired of having to admin, my own group, like shutting people up. And people get in fights and yelling, and just like, We're not here for that, you know, it was just like, just ban it get rid of and then it 54:22 took off and 54:23 be like, what's your motive? 54:24 And then the gifts come out? Right? There's always the gift stream of how 54:30 but only wrong. There's a lot of funny pictures. Oh, yeah, 54:33 kids that are very creative. 54:37 If you can just like add some good laughs Oh, yeah. 54:41 So the other thing is, if we look at the time that's invested into this 54:47 time is time is very valuable time is very valuable to all of all we're 54:51 equal, let 54:52 it all have equal time and it's in it's in for I think a lot of people out there they take it, they take it for granted, the amount of time that you've probably invested into this group over over five years now. And last time I checked, you weren't collecting a paycheck from a warrior. Nope. So what what's the motivation behind going through it and continuing to do this without seeing any kind of upside, per se? 55:21 One, it's, it's a passionate hobby of mine and every other admin in there, there are some incentive or benefits to it. Like someone comes to town they know they know who you are, they know you live here. They want to hang out and share samples with you or bring you some samples or mail you samples. Get that all the time. You know, we don't even we don't pay for it. It's that nice and fun. But 55:50 I mean, there's no 55:53 it's really kind of easy, and especially if you're like working a job. So a lot of I used to manage a liquor store. A lot of time I'd be just it's just sitting there and doing nothing. I mean, it's shelves are stocked, okay, we're good. Now you're just waiting for customers, and it was a slower store. So get your phone out of time. A lot of time here, you know. So, I mean, what else am I going to do? You know, just watch cat videos are 56:21 still fun, but I'm more interested in bourbon. 56:25 Morrison getting yelled at? 56:26 Yeah, nice people in the area. 56:29 Yeah, start fights for out of nothing. It's a bourbon of all things. But just funny and amazing. Like how people getting arguments over bourbon. Like there's, there's just so much like, yeah, we'll get into heated debate, whether it's about a particular bottle or whether somebody prices some sex. Yeah, good question. What do you do in a situation where somebody accidentally prices something? We've seen it, we've seen it both ways. They'll say way to live got this happy? 15 I'm going to put a for sale for 2500. And then the laugh emoji start coming every day that's coming. What do you do in that sort of sense? You 57:06 know, there's, there's kind of a range of All right, I'm just gonna delete your post because you're an idiot, or you're just going to piss off everybody, you know, 2500 for whatever the bottle goes for now. You know, if it's $1,000 too much, you're probably going to get delete, because I know what's gonna. But if you You know, I've seen the opposite where Pappy 23 170 someone you know, 10 people Ben, Ben, Ben, Ben bit, you know, and then they want to hold 57:39 zero 57:40 exactly what was clear that you were not trying to short yourself that much money, you know, 57:44 yeah, so selling it below the cost of even retail, you 57:48 know, I'm not being that nice of a guy and you're being an asshole. So it's like, no, you're not getting your free bottle of Pappy basically. So. But yeah, I mean, so there's a if it's just if it's too much. I mean, I've seen it where it's like $100 too much and they're still losing it and it's then we do actually kind of manage it and just mute everybody. All right. You said something, you know you redshirted me your digital duct tape for three days? 58:14 Yeah. 58:15 Is there actually like a like a thing where you're like you're because I've never actually added a group before? Is there really a like a button that you can say like you're you're cut for 10 days or something? You didn't you're 58:26 just like three options? No way that's awesome. Three days seven days Really? Okay. And depending on how I feel that day, you 58:36 know, it's it's just progressively gotten worse. 58:38 seven day max punishment. 58:41 Alright, you didn't break like Facebook rolls so you're not out of the group, but come on. 58:46 And then there's there's the other side of this where there's somebody that posts like a mixers 20 for will say like 1000 bucks, right when that's easily an 1800 dollar bottle or 2000 or something like that. So what happens if they accidentally undervalue it? And it's not an obscene and it's not an obscene value like a they 59:09 they literally know. 59:12 we owed it to them. And usually when they realize like someone tells them you just lost $800 you could have had 1800 dollars or something whatever. They'll just disappear from the group by themselves you know 59:27 that that point is like no harm no foul like you're you're faster the trigger on their keyboard but that's about all we can give you right now. 59:33 Yeah, exactly. 59:36 And so sometimes hold people hold up themselves to the boat you know all right, honor it Damn it. I don't I don't want to but sometimes they swallow their pride 59:45 now hopefully somebody like returns something in their favor to or if they cry it opens them a sample or something like that that'd be old 59:52 least which is IRA karma. 59:54 That is true thing I mean, there's bourbon karma out there there's people talk about all the time you know, you have somebody find a bottle you ship somebody something you send them somebody a sample, hopefully the karma God's smile down on you and you go walk into middle of nowhere Oklahoma, you stumble upon an old dusty turkey or something, you know, like, that's the truth thing. Now, there was also I think it was maybe a few years back. It was around Christmas time in did the community come together and like by the admins, some, like some Van Winkle or something like that. 1:00:26 I remember that. Yeah, so that wasn't actually in my group. Oh, no, that's fine. So everybody wanted to Dave on the back for being a great admin and he got a bottle of Pappy 29 I didn't know about it. And someone saw that and was like, we should do it for Oh, and I'm like, No, just donate $20 to charity or something. Don't send me a bottle. That's not what I'm quit bother me. I'm done. I'm not trying to you know, I don't need a handout. Not that it was that I mean, but it until after the fact you 1:01:01 know, I just literally and then so kind of going back and looking at this whole thing of you know, in time is time is very valuable for for a lot of people as you start going down this path and in everybody's got careers outside of just bourbon least hopefully most your friends. I mean, well, I mean, I met outside of like flipping bourbon. Right? Right. So everybody's everybody's hopefully has some career and flipping bourbon just isn't it. But that's, that's what kind of go backwards or time is valuable. And you look at it, you say like I built up a network of 50,000 people? What if I was able to charge like $5 per person per year for dues in that would go towards? I don't know what it would go towards, like, if it is to like actually help with the time that value that spent or whether it goes into like an insurance bunker for 1:01:51 bottles? How many people don't think is instantly enough? Sorry, charging depends now and how many active out of 50 that would even know that are? 1:02:00 can probably see that data. But the thing is that would that setting could only work off of Facebook. And so when Facebook bands up, you know, kicks every all of it off the Facebook, that might actually happen. Not necessarily for me. I don't want to do it anymore. But it might I mean, it might be a good vessel. But the problem with that is everybody loves to get up their phone. Look, I mean, me, I don't say they love it, but they do it. They get out their phone, they start scrolling through Facebook, they see grandma, they see someone else's kid. Yeah, I see bourbon in usually my newsfeed that's the only way. I just see bourbon bourbon bourbon. And I'm sure a lot of y'all can. 1:02:45 That's the only reason I keep Facebook Like I loved it when you could only have the group app. And you didn't have to have the Facebook app you could just do. And then they made everything go to the Facebook app. And it was like, you could just totally keep your cool. Yeah, it's 1:02:59 so good. 1:03:01 People off of loan to a whole nother website. It's going to be a challenge. And so setting that up. That's a lot of work. And I mean, you better have some really good reason for people to go there, you know, and how you got to make it worth their while to go there. 1:03:19 Yeah, that's true. I mean, it is it is hard to try and monetize a platform like 1:03:23 this, because it's the path of least resistance you don't face because people are already there. 1:03:28 It's against Facebook rules to actually try that or do that. 1:03:32 No, well, you can't export the group lists, like on the spreadsheet. 1:03:36 You can everyone move over? Well, 1:03:39 knowing that then I guess that rules that out? Yeah, I was just trying to think of a way that you know, you could you could try to try to, you know, make it worth the time. That's that's actually invested. But it sounds like it because granted this This is by far the biggest group. But it is not the only group. I mean, there's probably I mean, there's got to be upwards of hundreds now. Not only just just markets where

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The RecipeBy Josh Emett Intro: Welcome to the Cookery by the Book podcast with Suzy Chase. She's just a home cook in New York City, sitting at her dining room table, talking the cookbook authors.Josh Emett: Hi, I'm Josh Emett, and my book is called The Recipe. It has 150 of the world's finest chefs contributing, with 300 of the world's best recipes.Suzy Chase: You call the recipes in this cookbook the world's great classic dishes. How do you define classic when it comes to these recipes?Josh Emett: Well, that's an interesting thing, because when you go down to it, and you dial in about what is a classic recipe, we sort of came back to, the point is, and this is an obscure way of describing it, but it has to be a thing. You know, if it's a thing and it's been a thing for a long, long time, and what a thing means is that it means something to you, or that it's become a classic, it's got an identity in its own right. And so many of these dishes have, they have been replicated, and emulated, and played with, but the base idea of these recipes is that they've been around for many, many years, and they're tried, tested, absolutely loved, and they will never go away. And what were you try to do is give you the sort of best possible version of each one.Suzy Chase: What did it take to narrow down the most beloved and iconic dishes of the past 50 years? I can't even imagine.Josh Emett: No, nothing about this book was easy, let's get that out there straight away. We went, basically started compiling a list, and I spent a lot of time just narrowing things down, putting dishes in that I loved. You know, they can't be too over complicated. This is a window into it, I think, into the world of classic recipes. I mean, there's hundreds, and probably thousands more out there. We didn't go too deep into India or, you know, we only scratched the surface of South America, or various places like that.Josh Emett: So it feels like it's a more of a in-depth version of possibly the Western world, with a lot of dishes that have, you know, whether it's a Chinese or Malay, or other influences or cultures that have infiltrated into that really well. But then, that is possibly seen through my eyes, rather than someone else's. It would be interesting to hear your point of view on that, for instance, of what you think is, what's missing and what's interesting, I suppose.Suzy Chase: Oh my God. I mean, this is a vast cookbook that's far and wide, but what I've noticed with many cookbooks that span the world, is that the recipes are so lofty and complicated and not geared towards a home cook like me. So I love that you can take a trip around the world with accessible recipes, and you label it at the top of the page with easy, moderate, or difficult. But I think that easy recipes outnumbered the rest. Is that right?Josh Emett: 100%. Really, if it was too complicated, we wanted a more simplistic version, and where we needed to ask for a more simplistic version, we sort of did. We didn't really want the overcomplicated version, we want the paired back essentials, and these are recipes. Coming back to that point, if you're a person who loves to cook, and loves food, and there's not many people who don't, who don't live around food, or it forms a big basis of their life. These are the recipes that you'd want to have experienced, or the dishes actually, that you want to have experienced, and cooked at least once in your lifetime. And that is also part of it, right. We're giving you the Bible, the essential recipes that you've got to have done once. You've got to have eaten them once, you've got to have experience cooking it.Suzy Chase: To give the listener a feel of how vast this cookbook is, how many chefs and cooks are featured?Josh Emett: So, there's 150 chefs from around the world, some incredible names, and incredible chefs and cooks. And, I think there's 300, 315 recipes, and a lot of them, as you said, a lot of them are extremely simple, versatile and easy to replicate at home.Suzy Chase: Okay, so a little bit about you. So after a career spanning 25 years, most notably working with Gordon Ramsay, I'm most curious about your work on luxury yachts. We have this show here in the states called Below Deck, and I marvel at the top notch dishes that come out of these teeny, tiny kitchens. Can you talk a little bit about that?Josh Emett: Yeah, it was an interesting experience. First things first, it's a very unusual experience, I think, because you are living an unrealistic life, right. I was on a super yacht for three months and I think I worked for about two weeks of that with actual guests on board. The rest of the time, we're sitting in the South of France living like kings. And I always thought, and this is a terrible thing to say, I don't know about you, but there were two sorts of people I came across. They were either running away from something or they are in it for the money, and I never thought either of those were good things, in terms of, my work colleagues and that sort of thing. Although we were just out there having fun.Josh Emett: But it was a hugely enjoyable sort of three months of my life, and I was on a great boat with cool people, and we had a lot of fun basically. But what I thought my problem was, was I need to go and do some hard work, I need to go and get back into a hard kitchen, and that's actually when I went back to London and walked into Gordon's kitchen.Suzy Chase: Well, yeah. I would imagine Gordon's kitchen is harder than a kitchen on a yacht. So the photography in this cookbook is sleek, and straight out of a modern art gallery. For example, the squid ink risotto, the background is black, the plate is black, and the risotto is black, which almost blends together, but it still displays a delicious looking dish. Tell us about Kieran Scott who shot this cookbook.Josh Emett: Yeah. This is my third cookbook, and Kieran shot all three, and he is brilliant at what he does. And yeah, that black-on-black risotto is just gold. But there's a really clear methodology around the photography in the cookbook. We've got 150 of the world's finest chefs contributing here, some big personalities. And what this book is, this book isn't about them and it's not necessarily about me, it's about the dish, and the dish is what really needs to be represented and shine above all.Josh Emett: So, we made the call early on, that the photography was... And this is a lot of Kieran, this is Kieran's bread and butter, he is exceptionally good at this. There is a white background or a black background, and they're either shot on a white plate or a black plate with very, very few exceptions. We got the plates made for us from a guy on Waiheke Island, which is an island just off Auckland, here in New Zealand. And once you understand that, and flick through the book, you can very much see that there's no styling.Josh Emett: When I put food on a plate, it was as it sat, you know, as it came out of the pan, or as it, you know, very natural and sort of unfiltered, and that sort of thing. So it really does represent the dish in its best possible light, and it actually makes it look more simplistic, or as simplistic as it is. Because, you often dress these things up, and that actually, I think, scares people even a little bit more. Where they look at it, and go, "I'm not sure I can make that."Josh Emett: Whereas, when it's just the tiramisu, for instance, we just took it out of the tray, and put it on a plate and shot it, and it's beautiful in its own right. That's what it comes back to, it's all about the dish.Suzy Chase: On page 196 you have Leah Chase's recipe for Creole gumbo. Sadly, recently we lost her at the ripe old age of 96, did you know her?Josh Emett: No, I had never met her, and I was obviously ecstatic to have her gumbo. I've heard so much about it, and I did research on it, so yeah, incredible.Suzy Chase: After compiling over 300 recipes, did you happen to learn anything new, or a new technique ,or a recipe you hadn't made before?Josh Emett: Oh my God. You know, this, as I said, this was a challenging project in many... It was one of these things I dived into, right. So we came up with the idea, and we sit on what we were going to do, and away I went. And once I started getting a list of chefs, and they started sending through the recipes, I sort of turned around, and was a bit like, "Oh my god, I've actually got to... A, it's easy to cook your own recipes, because you just cook out of your own head. You know, I had to read, thoroughly, every single recipe, and really think them through. And a lot of them, not a huge percentage, but quite a few, I sat down, and was like, "Really? Okay." You know, it was new to me.Josh Emett: You were cooking, you know, doing things in a different order than what perhaps I'm used to. So there was a huge amount of, A, learning for me, and doing different styles, and that part was one of the best things about the book for me, but also, there was a huge amount of pressure. You know, I really did feel the pressure in those early days of the book, that the chefs that contributed were allowing me to take their dish, cook it, shoot it, and put it in the book, and trust that I was going to deliver something that was exceptional.Suzy Chase: That's credit to you I think, too, that they trusted you.Josh Emett: Well, yeah. Hopefully, yeah. But in the early days, I certainly felt, I was like, "Right, oh my God, I need to really get this. It doesn't just need to be good, it needs to be great."Suzy Chase: I like that you have notes with every single recipe. For example, with Ruth Reichl's very rich pancakes, you say to use the batter straight away, don't let it stand, and maintain a medium high heat in the pan. Your notes section is so helpful. Talk a little bit about that.Josh Emett: Yeah. The notes section was really about, if I could take one or two tips on each recipe, and really dial down to the key things, where, if you don't do that you get it wrong. That's really what I tried to focus on. And there's key little chefy things, and often you don't get these. You can sit there and read the recipe through and think about what that is, but when you go through the process of making it with your own two hands, and you think it through, you do hit a point, most times in a recipe, where you go, "You know what, it's simple as using the wrong size bowl," or, you know, I don't know, measured it wrong, or didn't put it on a correct tray, or something like that. It can go really wrong, it's as simple as that. So it's about putting those sorts of tips in there that just keep people on the right track, and make sure they have a success each time they cook.Suzy Chase: I made two recipes out of this cookbook, the fish congee, Luke Winn's dish on page 166. Tell us about Luke, I'd never heard of him before.Josh Emett: Yes, so Luke's Vietnamese/Australian, and as far as I knew, I've seen him on TV. And so, the fish congee, I have eaten... It's one of those things, right, so if I'm traveling through Asia, and you go to a breakfast buffet, and they always have congee, right, and I absolutely love it. It's so good, especially when you start tearing into fried anchovies, or sambal, or shallots, or coriander, spring onions, any of those, dried shrimps, any of those things you can throw in there to flavor it, soy Sauce. It's a great dish, it's very versatile. And I do find it one of those sort of heartwarming, it makes you feel a little bit better if you're under the weather.Suzy Chase: I also made your cream spinach on page 123. This is just a classic dish that I grew up on. Describe this recipe.Josh Emett: Cream spinach is just gold for me. I mean I could eat it, it's one of those things, there's two things. I love roast chicken right, and I could eat roast chicken and cream spinach every day of the year. Cream spinach is a very technical dish. Even though it is so simple, and it is easy, if you don't blanche and then really wring the spinach out, you won't get that correct finished texture, because it'll... It just keeps... Well, no matter what you do with the spinach it just keeps releasing water or moisture. So it constantly lets down the cream, when the key is to have it completely wrung out.Josh Emett: I confess, I've ripped more tea towels wringing out spinach than anything else, because I put it all in the tea towel and squeeze it so hard that after a few goes the tea towel rips.Suzy Chase: You don't know your own strength.Josh Emett: Well, you can never ring it out enough, right. I've had it so many times where, water keeps coming out, and it lets the whole thing down. It becomes a bit sloppier than it should do. It should be creamy, and beautiful, and green, and delicious. It's a great dish.Suzy Chase: Now to my segment called my last meal. What would you have for your last supper?Josh Emett: Oh, I mean, I've been asked that a few times. And, that's a really difficult one, because I don't know that I need to go extravagant. I've had a chef's life, right, I've eaten all sorts of stuff. But you know, that said, I would have to eat stuff like caviar, you know, I do love caviar, a good caviar. I think it's just one of those, world's delicacies that I absolutely love. But on top of that, I could have it with something really simple like you know, a blini, or something like that.Josh Emett: Crayfish, I can't go past. Crayfish in New Zealand and lobster in America. Crayfish is, they're very similar, but very, very sweet. And then, I know, simple things like a really beautiful dry-aged roast piece of beef is, you can't go past really. And what's good? Or I could choose something from the book for dessert. I mean, to be honest I'd eat anything sweet. I'd eat that beautiful cheesecake that's in the book. I would eat the trifle. Pavlova. Pavlova is always that, you know, if you've eaten a decent pavlova it's very hard to ever go to anything else really.Suzy Chase: So what's your next project?Josh Emett: Well, up until now it's really been thinking about the book, and the book has just been released. I'm constantly looking for new restaurant sites, which, I am in the process of doing that in Auckland right now. We are doing a bit of filming on the back of the book, which is really amazing. So we've got a few... I'm doing some filming up in France in four or five weeks, which is hugely exciting.Josh Emett: And you know, I think, most of all, trying to keep a reasonably balanced life. Because it can't be, you know, you asked that question and it's like, "Oh, it's work, work, work, work, work." But, you know, at my tender old age of 45, I've got a family, and that side of my life is hugely important. So I don't think it can have a discussion like that without saying listen, part of the focus is to have a well balanced life, and actually try and be happy, right.Suzy Chase: Where can we find you on the web, social media, and where can we find your restaurants?Josh Emett: Social Media, I am mostly on Instagram, so @Joshemett, which is J.O.S.H.E.M.E.T.T. And the restaurants, throughout New Zealand. So I have restaurants, a restaurant called Rata, which is in Queenstown. I have a restaurant brand called Madam Wu, which is Malaysian, and I have four of those throughout New Zealand. And I also have a restaurant offshoot of Madam Wu, called Hawker and Roll, and we have four of those throughout New Zealand as well. So very busy running around New Zealand taking care of those.Suzy Chase: Thanks Josh, for coming on Cookery by the Book podcast.Josh Emett: Thanks for having me Suzy, it's been brilliant.Outro: Follow Suzy Chase on Instagram, @cookerybythebook, and subscribe at cookerybythebook.com or in Apple podcasts. Thanks for listening to Cookery by the Book podcast, the only podcast devoted to cookbooks since 2015.

Today’s guest needs no introduction. He is one the most iconic living figures in bourbon today. He’s been on episodes 77, 105, and 175. He’s even got his own personalized scooter to get him around the distillery and that is Jimmy Russell. This podcast touches on his early years and how he was selected to become the next master distiller. He talks about the changes he saw at the distillery as it exchanged hands throughout the years. Also, we get to hear the story on the birth of Rare Breed and his opinion on chill filtering vs non-chill filtering debate. Show Partners: Barrell Craft Spirits blends cask strength, high quality spirits to explore the effects of different distillation methods, barrels, and aging environments. Find out more at BarrellBourbon.com. Use code "BOB2019" for discounted tickets to Bourbon on the Banks in Frankfort, KY on August 24th. Visit BourbonontheBanks.org. (Offer good through 6/30.) Aged & Ore is running a special promotion on their new Travel Decanter. Get yours today at PursuitTravelDecanter.com. Receive $25 off your first order with code "Pursuit" at RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. Show Notes: The history of JW Dant and Log Still Distillery - https://www.distillerytrail.com/blog/j-w-dant-investing-12-million-to-restart-historic-distillery-in-the-bourbon-capital-of-the-world/ Heaven Hill 7 Year Bottled in Bond Launch - https://www.facebook.com/bourbonpursuit/posts/2640636035998401?__tn__=K-R Leave us a review! https://link.chtbl.com/LeaveAReview This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about speaking at a Total Wine event in Atlanta. Does limestone water make a difference in bourbon? How long does it take to cook bourbon? Can you burn the mash? When did you start at the distillery? What roles have you had at the distillery? What Master Distiller trained you? How did he decide he wanted to train you? What were the early years like? Was there anything from prohibition that affected the distillery operations when you started? Will you all need to increase capacity soon? What was it like when you first started traveling to talk about Wild Turkey? What were your biggest challenges on the road? Were you nervous when you first went out on the road? Were you happy traveling and talking to the consumers? What was the name of the distillery before Wild Turkey? What was it like to distill then ship the bourbon away? Tell us about the other former Lawrenceburg distilleries. What was it like when you were out on the road? Do you think it helped grow the brand? Do you prefer to travel or be at the distillery? Tell us about Kentucky Spirit and Rare Breed. How often are you going through and sampling barrels? Do you have a favorite warehouse? Do you have a favorite floor? Why do you only have 7 floors? What innovations have you seen throughout your time in the bourbon industry? Talk about your rye mashbill. What do you think of non-distilling producers? Tell us about the inception of Rare Breed. Do you like the barrel char flavor? What do you think of chill vs. non-chill filtered? What kind of steak do you like? How much time do you spend at the visitor's center? What do you drive most of the time? Are you excited to have Bruce at the distillery? Did you ever want to own the distillery? Why do whiskey consumers get enthralled with age statements? Any life advice for younger generations? 0:00 I've had one bad job since I've been here. My dad worked for Old Joe Distilling company. The last 10 years of his life he worked here. 0:09 You know what the problem was? You were working here too? Yeah, I was his boss. 0:13 Oh really? (laugh) 0:28 Hey, it's Kenny here and this is episode 207 of bourbon pursuit. It's been a pretty busy week and a half of bourbon news. So let's get to it. Another warehouse comes crashing down. However, this time it's not because of unknown reasons, but it was because of disastrous weather in wind. O.Z. Tyler located in Jonesboro, Kentucky, had a corner of warehouse age get ripped off and barrel started coming to the ground back on Monday, June 17. About 4500 barrels and bourbon more in that quadrant that have now been rescued. The warehouse has been successfully deconstructed, and the cleanup process is underway. That particular warehouse holds around 19,400 barrels. O.Z. Tyler has been in daily meetings with the Environmental Protection Agency to make sure that everything stays contained. On the right side there has been minimal damage in very little leakage because bourbon barrels are constructed to withstand plenty of movement. JW Dant, you've heard the name before because it's one of the many brands owned by Heaven Hill and is also one of the prominent bottled in bond Bourbons that you see on the shelf. And it's been talked about previously with Bernie lovers back on episodes 3637 and 89. Well, heaven Hill may own the name JW Dant as the brand but they don't own the person. j w. Wally dance surprised the crowd during the national bourbon Day celebration in Bardstown, Kentucky, announcing a $12 million investment to build logs still distillery on 2200 acres of land that he purchased that was once guessed them and he decelerate until that was actually shut down back in 1961. In 1883, that distillery at this site was called head and beam distillery but was closed during Prohibition. The distillery reopened the repeal of prohibition, eventually selling to United distillers and later Shanley production at the old distillery was relocated to Louisville in the early 1960s. And production at this location had ceased. The JW dant brand name was sold to heaven Hill in the early 1990s. Heaven Hill still produces JW Dant bourbon today, so don't expect this name on a future bottle from logs still distillery. You can read more about the history of JW Dant and logs still distillery at distillery trail.com with the link in our show notes. while speaking of heaven Hill, everyone is up in arms either celebrating or chastising them over the new announcement of the relaunch of their heaven Hill bottom and bond. You may remember this last year when this product was only available Kentucky and it disappeared from shelves when it had announced its retirement. However, it's back. But there are some catches. The age statement has been increased one year from six to seven years old. It's still bottle and bond at 100 proof the packaging is a bit more flashy than its white label screw top predecessor. Now the big news might be that it's not launching in Kentucky, and it's not going to be available in Kentucky on the first release. Instead, it will be immediately available in California, Texas, New York, Georgia, Florida, Illinois, South Carolina and Colorado. And the prices jumped from the once low budget daily bourbon of $12 and 99 cents to nearly three times that with a suggested retail price of 3999. We're gonna be discussing this one in a lot more detail on the next round table. So we can see where this new price point positions them in the market. So stay tuned for that one. Today's guests, he needs no introduction. He's easily one of probably the most iconic living figures in bourbon today. He's been on episode 77 105 and hundred and 75. He's even got his own personalized scooter to get him around the distillery and that's Jimmy Russell. This podcast touches on his early years and how will you selected to become the next master distiller and how he saw the changes of his own distillery changed hands plenty of times throughout the years. It was certainly an honor for myself to sit there and chat with this man one more time to really just hear more about his story. You're listening to this podcast so we know you enjoy it a little bit. So if you can please be our boots on the ground. leave us a review because that helps the show grow and find new people. Now let's hear what Joe Beatrice over a barrel bourbon has to say. We've got Fred Minnick with above the char. 5:03 Hi Joe from Barrell Bourbon. Here we blend cask strength 5:06 high quality spirits to explore the effects of different distillation methods, barrels, and aging environments. 5:08 You can find it on the shelves at your nearest retail store. I'm Fred Minnick, and this is above the char. I was changing my nine month old baby's diaper. When suddenly an enormous back pain struck my lower back a spasm seized my spine. It says if 1000 vodka troops grabbed their pitchforks and started stabbing me. Thank goodness I was able to place Julian gently down and the changing station as I toppled over and intense pain. I simply couldn't move. And all I could think about was the total wine event I had in Atlanta later that day. I considered canceling it decided to push on. I drove to Atlanta from Louisville stopping every hour to stretch my back. At one point I thought I was going to pass out in the middle of $1 general and chat and knew them as I was shop for back support things. If I did pass out there, I don't think I would have woken up with much. It was a very interesting crowd shopping that day. I pressed on, I get to the total wine two hours late, and there was a decent crowd waiting for me. I tried standing and talking but could barely stand. So I sat and talked about taxation and bourbon. I never really know what I'm going to talk about with these things. I like to feel the crowd out. And this was one I felt was really hungry for geeky knowledge and somehow bourbon taxes just kind of rose to the forefront of what to talk about. I went through my spiel sign some books and magazines, but couldn't have a tasting. For some reason. Georgia doesn't allow people to have tastings and liquor stores. When will our country figure out that responsible alcohol actions are the answer, not pesky bands on things like tastings. I feel really bad for those total wine workers because they can't really share the goodness of bourbon. Anyway, the next day I went to Atlanta's other times wine. When I ran into the show's good friend Kerry, aka suburbia who taunted me with a vodka bottle and took a picture of the pleasure he had. You should check it out on his Twitter handle look for suburbia, it really captured my disdain for the bourbon job stealing parasite known as vodka. Seriously, vodka sucks. Okay, I told my therapist I would cut back on my vodka rant. So let me get back to the total wine stuff. I did a similar talk about taxes at Kennesaw store and later hung out with the club Atlanta bourbon barons, where the founder Giuliano opened up his house and insane collection to me, at this point, after hitting up the urgent care center the day before, I was on some medication for the back and couldn't really partake in much of this great whiskey tasting. But I slipped a little, just a little. One of the members is Atlanta's leading personal trainer and geologists who sees Atlanta Braves players and people who have a bunch more muscle than me. He offered to look at my best And that, to me is the epitome of the bourbon community. We like to help one another. Atlanta was gracious with the bourbon hospitality and concerns from a health and it just made my trip all the worthwhile. So thank you so much to the Atlanta bourbon community for opening up your arms and accepting me and my bad back because I hobbled to and from all the total wine stores and to your homes. I shared this with you because I feel like the bourbon community is at a breaking point on the internet. I'm seeing constant trolling and bickering and online forums. And maybe it's time we go back to the old ways of the bourbon social life. You know, when you invited total strangers into your home and poured over your conversations with your very best Bourbons. Those were the good old days, and I'd like to see us get back to them. And that's this week's above the char. Hey, have you subscribed to my new magazine bourbon Plus, you should. Latest cover features the actor Jeffrey Wright, who's starring in James Bond and john wick. He's on the cover. Check it out. Until next week. Cheers 9:08 Welcome back to the episode of bourbon pursuit the official podcast of bourbon back in Lawrenceburg filming recording on site at wild turkey distillery wild turkey Hill I believe one time is what you call it right Jimmy 9:21 is known as wild turkey he'll it's been named Ed bar county is known as wild turkey. He'll 9:26 There you go. So we have master distiller Of course, bourbon legend, Jimmy Russell on the podcast today. And before I kind of dig into it, just want to say thanks to everybody from the empire that helped set this up everybody that also kind of figured out the logistics for it as well. We are recording outside today. So if you hear some trucks going by, it's something that Jimmy had already mentioned earlier to us that there is a rock quarry probably about a mile and a half down the road. And apparently they make some pretty damn good limestone and that's where you hear these trucks that are just going back and forth all day. Right You know, this is where all the lamps only had to have good limestone water to make good bourbon and the Kentucky River is all spring fed limestone water. So I guess we'll go ahead and we'll kick it off with that. So anybody everybody knows Jimmy so we'll get we'll get past that but you know, we'll we'll talk about water in general right because I think it's one of those things that gets a lot of talk about when it comes to Kentucky bourbon you know, you talk about limestone and about limestone filtration but does it really matter at the end of the day because a lot of stuff goes to like reverse osmosis and it's really filtered heavily through there so what's 10:32 kind of your thought process well done in the cooking process we use just limestone water is no go so old time we use house Moser is I use when we're cutting a bourbon after it's been aged for years, but it's just regular Kentucky River water when when you're actually cooking it 10:47 coconut. Okay, so I guess let's let's give some people a little bit of a schooling. So when you're cooking bourbon, what's what's the usual time process when it goes into the masher and everything like Well, 10:59 it depends on time a year we're cooking 400 bushels to a mash corn rye and barley malt. Now the cooking times are the same we cook corn up to 212 degrees and then we cook it for a period of time. Then we start cooling down we had a rather certain temperature has a little more starts a little more flavors, and then we cooling down to certain temperatures. It had we had to barley malt barley malt converts all starches into fermented will sugars. Then we pump at our firm better at our east and East a non ferment will sugars produces a bourbon in 72 hours. And this depend on temperature cook, the cooking temperature is always the same. But cooling down from 200 and 20th. We're cooling water outlet Kentucky River used to cause and all in the wintertime, we can cook and pump a fermented mash mash out in a firmer and three and a half, four hours. And when we just shut down and last part of June the water was hot. It was taking four and a half five hours. So what you're doing, you're setting there and beating that grain to death cooking in the I use simple terms. Just like cooking at home, we leave something on the stove too long. It gets mushy and not as good. So 12:11 yeah, but do you get any like, like say you're putting in like a baking pan? Does ever actually get like black underneath of it? Like if you actually cooked it too long? No, no, no. So you're not gonna actually get can actually burn it. 12:23 No, you're not going to burn it. 12:25 So is there? Is there a point when you know that the mash is done? 12:28 In your opinion? Oh, yes, you can tell by looking at the firm better. First day is pretty smooth and even on top. And they used to own sugars and the apartment or is rolling and moving and it's the natural movement was the East really known the sugars scene. And as it starts finishing Oh, we call it down down they'll start dying down and it'll be come out clear on top. 12:52 Oh yes. The father the firm enters right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. 12:55 We call it beer at that stage. 12:57 So distillers beer. Absolutely. I so what's let's let's give everybody a little bit of a history lesson too because you started here at wild turkey back in September 10 1954 Okay, so you know the exact date remember the time 13:12 6am seven o'clock in the morning 13:16 maybe I'm not the first person to ask that one. I don't know. Yeah, so you you've pretty much taken you've done a pretty much every single role with inside as 13:25 well yes. 13:27 Most of times you started in the bourbon business you started one place you stayed there all master still it took me under his wing. And that started out in the lab and salary time I learned that you know we learned a job well you can sit back and take it easy, then a boom into something else moves. So that experience in running the ball and operation running the whole client and exercise client management for several years. So what what made it into balls By the way, who was your master distiller that Mr. Bill Hughes he was young distiller for probation and Helio God appeared top heel. And he's took me under his wing started training and were born raised here in Lawrenceburg, Anderson County, and he'd known me you know, all my life and he more or less took me under his wing started training me. 14:14 What What was it about you that? Did he see something? Was there a glimmer in your I did you? Did you ask like, what was it? 14:21 No, I didn't really know. He just they just started trading me doing everything here. 14:25 He's like, here's the here's the biggest sucker in the room. And probably 14:29 nobody else would ever 14:31 know how to use it. 14:33 So what were those were those beginning years, like when you're when you're trying to have this apprenticeship. 14:40 While he's learning everything in the story. I worked in quality control and the story that day and time we didn't have all is saying they will quit what you have now. we'd run analysis on the corn, check it make sure it meets our standards, everything we done by hand. Now you have good equipment to check off, they're going to say you check all the grain and maybe four days are with you my brother scoop shovel shovel, and done a little bit everything. 15:09 So So you started 1954. Right. Yes. So at what point was that during pre post, sorry, post prohibition and and was there anything that really that was, I guess, prohibition ask that that affected your your job at the time? Or is everything just running full cylinders? We started of prohibition in 1933. And this story, some of the buildings and our storage bill some our storage building here 15:39 was built for and 1890s. And most of the steel was, was dismantled cause it was 1919 1933. A lot of them didn't think they'd be back in operation. But the family that owned this at that time is a big rock where why the amount of limestone out here blows. And they own that rock quarry too. So they work here in wintertime. Work in Iraq, we're in the summertime. 16:04 So yeah, you weren't running full cylinders, like you are today. 16:09 Still the same way as to the hot mush July which medicine we don't make any bourbon you just too hot. Doing it now bottling in Hawaii, how's everything Danish goes on all the time? Before it's a cooking mash? It just takes too long to cook them and cooling down. 16:26 Now, do you think that has any effect on the supply of what you all can try to produce? Or? I mean, do you look at it as maybe we should throw in some air conditioning units or open some windows? And 16:36 well, that's not the problem is the water? Oh, is it we say we start having chill water to cooling down. And it just takes along with our we've doubled the capacity owners are to steer in the last few years. So we're running about 346 faster right now. So when we build servers angry, the refurbished everything, we doubled our more than doubled our capacity. And the way we got it now we can put in extra parameters, we can still put in more firm owners and increase more and more. 17:08 I mean, do you do you see the day coming? Where you're going to where you're going to need to do that? Or is right now everything pretty good. And status? Well, 17:14 you know, I hope we have to go save when I started 50 or 60 barrels a day. Now, of course we're restricting our own product, everything to wild turkey products here we make our own product, a drone product and bottle our own product. 17:30 Well, almost right you've got a few other things out there old recipe bond and 17:35 that was too old to steal was that was a one time deal. They went back and done some compile on that. But that's some older stories was here. And they've been looking at some of the older stories for for probation. Maybe doing a special every once while now. 17:49 Yes. What to say I was like there's another one that could be coming out. I think it was the wash. Was it the barons? The barons releases or something like that. They look like it was kind of another another camp party thing. But we figured you probably didn't have a whole lot of your hands involved in that one. No, I didn't. So another thing I guess let's give an idea of, of what so at some point, you are also Do you remember when you had to start going on the road to start talking about the bourbon? Yes, 18:20 it was probably at least 30 years ago or more. And production to master distillers working in production. They just do is to play. That's all you done. And our company started me out going on the road and made a trip all across the United States. And it is completely different is now everybody is all whiskey don't make it. What it is nowadays, everybody. With all internets and everything. Everybody knows everything is going just like this broadcast broadcast. You all covered everything people know what's going on all the time now. 18:54 Well, there's a hungry consumer out there, right? They, they, they want to know more 18:58 they want. That's what I say when I say started. There's always good in my country with what it was. But now they're very well educated. They know what's going on all the time. 19:06 So what was what were some of the biggest challenges when you were doing that in regards of trying to get people to either listen to you or try the product? 19:14 Well, they listened. When you started talking to them, they really listened and this one he's a bourbon Sally's come along whiskies of the world and it's all over the world anywhere you go in the world, you know, for many years, and bourbon was strictly a Southern Gentleman strength. They got their cards or cigars and bourbon went to back room playing cards. That's where it comes in. How will you read old story you never drank bourbon till after five o'clock? Or somewhere? It's always five o'clock. Yeah. But that was always storing in his coming worldwide right now. The export market is huge. everywhere in the world. Now bourbon is really doing well. Were you because you were 19:56 I guess you consider yourself a pioneer when it comes to going out traveling and and talking about the whiskey. Were you nervous? 20:03 No, not really. No, I'm just playing. Oh, Jimmy. I'm saying Well, I mean, 20:08 at this point, yeah, you've stood up and you've talked in front of a bunch of people for quite a long time. And I know one of the things that was always relatively funny was Eddie would always say you know you didn't really do a whole lot of talking at home but you should see it the distiller you're doing you're doing your thing then you're always talking 20:25 well that's what he said the first trip he made with me. Then he come back home said Mama, you don't know that he said he's out here so you can keep him quiet. What 20:36 do you think you think you found like 20:40 like a new new happiness when you were when you were traveling of trying to find a way to connect with consumers I 20:45 had but I've always been people enjoy people. I'm a call myself a people's person. I like to be just like here. I tried to get down to Visitor Center at least once today. Talk to the venture see what they have to say about it. And my wife likes to come here to and on Saturdays. My family has breakfast to get we're family everything's open Joel except our home. That's all but we have breakfast together every Saturday morning. And we she'll come out with me actually she worked here for ideas even she worked here for eight years or children come along and she stayed home took care of the children and and we have Bing she likes come out here and see the vicious dog and they like see are so weak and then after church on Sunday we normally come out a little while on Sunday afternoons I get to spend more time in a visitor center that away for through the week. I got a job to do up there and I don't get down here as much. 21:41 So you know I think I remember this correctly. When you said your your wife Georgia, by the way it is now was this place called was it old tub or Old Joe? Is that what all 21:51 know it was Anderson County just still in 21:53 Anniston County. Okay. 21:54 And then one time was really brothers. And it was JT s brown at one time. And then been since 1971. has been Austin Nichols. 22:04 Gotcha. All right. We'll see. Mr. Sir. I'm learning something today as well. 22:08 They also Nichols company. They had their bourbon made here. It was shipped to New York and bottled in New York at that time. And they bought everything out here. Both the whiskey the day old already here. Um, it was already there. So they both and they didn't buy any other products at JDs brown at them. They didn't buy any of that. 22:30 Alright, so at what point so you were here during the entire Austin Nichols? 22:34 Since they've actually owned everything here in Kentucky. 22:38 Absolutely. So what was it like during that time to sit there and distill and then just ship everything away? Like what was what was the Lucille Ball and everything here? Okay, you're still doing that too? 22:48 Yeah, we're doing everything here. So talk about a little bit because that was in the 70s. Right. So it wasn't it wasn't the heyday for bourbon. No bourbon was true. Say back in that day and time bourbon restrictive Southern Gentleman. Right. So what was what was the, I guess you could say the are or the feeling that, you know, kind of went through a lot of the veins of people around here of what's going to happen with bourbon during that time. I mean, well, you know, before prohibition, it was 12 distilleries here in Lawrenceburg, Tennessee, Canada was known as one of the biggest selling cup places it was at that time. Most when I started with steel for here for roses known at nationals are still here in town. Old Joe distilling company was here, and Hoffman distillery was here, then we were here. So when I started the steel forward, now we're down to two four roses and us, 23:41 right. And so what what was what was the Old Joe and Hoffman? What? What kind of fate were they delivered? 23:47 Well, Joe was one of the oldest brands just our 1918 is one of the oldest, oldest brands, and they had several different brands. And in Auckland, they had half and broke. Then they started days were broke. Hmm, there was worried started, 24:04 which, from what I understand is Ezra Brooks was even a real person, right? 24:08 I thought he was I'm not sure. 24:11 Fancy. I don't know. I think that's been one of those biggest lords of bourbon. Nobody actually knows who Brooks actually is. I think it's just a fictional character. Good to be. 24:21 Jimmy Russell doesn't know I'm gonna I'm gonna go ahead and put my stake in the ground. It might be fictional. I might be right on that one you might be right. 24:29 So I kind of want to go back a little bit about, you know, your time on the road and what it was to to start doing that because you said you weren't nervous. But what was what was the reception of a lot of those people? You know, you'd said that they were they were listening. But do you think that that sort of help kick mark or sorry? kickstart the the market at the time for what we're seeing today? 24:53 Oh, yeah. say they've started wanting to learn about his dad and no, back to Ezra Brooks. Love the fellowship, Assyria his his first name was Ezra now well, that had anything to do with it. I don't know. I don't know either. I don't know either. But the fellow that owned all hapa distillery, while the owners first name was Israel, 25:11 we'll have to look into that. And put that on the research papers for later. But again, I cannot go back to your traveling, you know, the reception of those individuals and how that kind of kick started. So how long? And how many years? Were you traveling? And you're still doing a little bit not near 25:27 as much? Well, I'm still doing it in the States. I'm not going overseas at doing most of traveling overseas now. But, but I've been in just about every country in the world, who was talking about bourbon and say it's become a worldwide drink people's really educated and where you go in the world now. And so you have the bourbon side is in Japan, Australia, Europe, everywhere. Women in the bourbon women, the whiskey of the world and everything nowadays. 25:53 Absolutely. So do you. I guess I'm trying to find a good word to kind of summarize this with but when you're Did you did you look at that time traveling as as a good time to be able to do that? Or would you rather been back here at the distillery kind of overseeing a lot Oh, I enjoy 26:11 doing that. I would want to be a distillery. I wouldn't want to do it all the time. Like la the ambassador's is now they're on the road all the time. But every so often be out on the road and see what two people has to say, you know, you make it, agent, bottle it and ship it out. Unless you had complaints. And we've had very few of them over the years. You never heard any more about it. This way. When you're out in the field, you get to meet people. It's enjoying it and drink it and hear what they have to say about it. 26:40 So when we talk about just the whiskey in general, what do you what do you look at as some of the more brands that that you fall in love with? You know, we've talked to Eddie and and you know, he talked about everybody's got their baby, right? Everybody's got their baby. And so he looks as Kentucky spirit and rare breed. We're really your babies. Yes, 26:59 Kentucky's spirit and Blanton's was the first two single barrels on the market. Way back in early 90s. The first two barrel proofs on the market was Booker's and rare breed and that was late 80s, early 90s. Now everybody that has them but they were the first to own the market. 27:16 So kind of talk about what the Kentucky spirit line really is and what it kind of means to you as well 27:21 the Kentucky spirits of single barrel your hand selected and selected one when you say single barrel has come one barrel and one barrel only. So you're selected. Now here way we do it. Every barrel has a little different taste, even though it's the same going in his way of white oak tree grows in the woods has effect on a tree. I use simple terms. You plant flowers around your home all the way around someone who better on one side or another cause you get more sun more rain or same with white oak trees. So we were selected, were selected consistent taste Now we have this barrel program or bars restaurants, distributors can come in and select their own barrel. We'll have some more spicy pans on the wood some lyst because they know their customer we're trying to please everybody who are they know their customers and they were picking one one of my wanting more spicy one might not want is spicy. So when we're selecting the single barrels 28:19 so the I mean how often were you actually going through and testing some of these Kentucky spirit barrels to see if they matched up profile that people would want to come in and actually purchase them 28:30 we we've always done that we check everything we're Hey, we don't control our grains check before it's ever unloaded, we check it actually grounded. We check it when it's been cooked. We check the firm owners we taste a new product before it ever goes into barrel and then we check new barrels make sure they meet our standard we use a number for heavy char we make sure everything meets our standards before 28:54 so it's like it's like you almost have like a battle of wills here right because you've got this you got this heavy lean on consistency where you're saying like yes, we've got one mash bill we go in one entry proof we do this we do this that have this level of consistency and it's like but we're going to come up with a product where every single thing is different 29:13 you know me I like to be consistent even though I've come up with American honey I've come up with several different experiments over the years but you know I use simple terms Yeah, I certain foods and if I don't like taste them but I'm not gonna eat them again. 29:31 Like what like what foods you're not gonna try again? 29:36 Yeah, cuz simple. It feels like people say like, I'm too old to eat this anymore. I'm gonna enjoy the rest of what I'm going to eat. 29:41 Well my wife sure she says I too much steak and beef. 29:46 You can't have enough steak. That's BBQ Yeah, there you go. What about stuff that you you're not going to touch? Anything that you're not going to touch anymore? No Really? 29:55 Mo is not very few thanks to that. Oh like 30:00 Alright, so let's talk a little bit about the warehouse is here. So it seems like you probably know every every nook and cranny of a lot of these things right? So do you have Do you have a favorite warehouse 30:10 you know to me, most of them. If you sit near you see they all said about the same level. Get same airflow, get same air flow and everything it or some places are you know they're down in valleys different places. But here we're good now at likes a and b warehouse he says it is but you know he gets something in your mind you believe it but I may. I don't see a lot of division er houses. 30:38 What about the floors Do you have a particular floor that you're akin to? 30:41 Well the third fourth fifth floors ideal aging. The first and second floors at same story warehouses. It can be 30 degrees difference between the top floors and the bottom floors. It ages two faced on the top floors and don't age fast enough on the bottom floors. So at times you have to rotate bottom the middle forces idea who managed in temperature and all that there's not that big change in it so but the bottom folders and top floors it is if you use over an hour going to the warehouse you start up steps every floor use field difference in the heat on up. 31:16 So why do you think they stopped? What do you stop at seven place? Why would you go like a 50 story warehouse? 31:25 Do you love bourbon? How about festivals? course you do. So join bourbon pursuit in Frankfort, Kentucky on August 24 for bourbon on the banks. It's the Commonwealth premier bourbon tasting and awards festival. You will get to taste from over 60 different bourbon spirits, wine and beer vendors plus 20 food vendors all happening with live music. Learn more about bourbon from the master distillers themselves that you've heard on the show and enjoy food from award winning chefs. The $65 ticket price covers everything. Don't wait get yours at bourbon on the banks.org and through June 30 you can get your discounted ticket offer two tickets for the low price of $110 when using the code be EOB 2019 during checkout at bourbon on the banks.org 32:18 Hey everyone, 32:19 Ryan here and I know when I celebrate a weekend with friends I want to bring some of my best bourbon. However, if I'm on the car, a plane is not convenient. Plus my bottles are clanging around they're not really secure. So I have the perfect solution. 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Well 34:10 I don't know how that would look but it'd be monstrous it'd be monsters but to back in that day in time they didn't have all this quit but you have now they they had police horses pulling the barrels up to the top floors. Oh really? Yes. 34:25 Yeah cuz i guess i mean i've seen you've seen you can go in some of these these warehouses and you do see the you can see like the pulleys and you do see like essentially like almost like an elevator shaft you put it on pull it up 34:37 cool isn't it? That's what they don't leave these two for prohibition here. 34:41 They didn't like put a put a backpack on you with a rope and make you go 34:46 away man does I now you have Rick and machines and all the put them up into three tour. So used to tear Rick's back Ned day we call the dropper she had a cable with hooks on the end. And you looped it up over the for Buffy and one fellow would hope to borrow was a hoax and I'll be back pulling them up earlier than Rick now you have all kinds of equipment to handle it now. Yeah, same way taking them out. You had to take them out the same way. 35:12 So what other I mean let's let's go ahead and rewind the clocks of time here right so during your time what other type of innovations have you seen when it comes to just yeah, either that's rolling barrels or wrecking barrels or dumping or anything like that that sort of either made it easier or just 35:28 it's made it easier you got better equipment now everything's better equipment, you know in the dump room used to knock the bone out of every barrel still. Now we got you got a bone puller pulls the barrels out soaks $1 now same way and fill in barrels you field every barrel, you had to drive the bone and it rolled it out. And it's a lot of those things is better equipment. Now that's why I say our forum and everything, we haven't changed anything. We just have so much better equipment now than you did and everybody to steal you run it by hand you had one hand on the steam veil, want to head on flow veil and you actually you got to be consistent improves on your steel if you prove runs up and down on the steel the flavors are going to be up and down. So you have to be consistent get good if you want consistent taste and flavor you gotta run the same prove all day long. 36:21 So I guess now it's a lot easier because it's all probably computer controlled 36:26 with how we have computers but we still at hand operators are still doing it by hand I can sit there and 36:32 click on click a mouse and I can make it like that and 36:35 then they had when we're grind and grind that has to be their meals we're cooking a cooker fella has been around the cooker we're filling the first matter yes be there so we're still got a computer city have sitting around doing some buy in and that's still in the middle of steel is about 240 degrees and it was hot back in that day and time setting imagine you got air conditioning control room for no sudden oh 37:04 yeah now they're just they're living life of kings or is so he you got to see the hard days hard days everything done by hand 37:12 Yes. 37:13 So let's let's talk a little bit more about the the distillation pieces of it so you've got one match but let you do for all the Bourbons but you also have a ride 37:21 around Nashville right? So talk a little about the rye when was that introduced? Like because I know for a while you know you used to have wild turkey from Maryland source oh not a store it is like bourbon even to this day you have allowed people to bourbon can be made distinctive product United States of America. And a lot of people thanks has been made in Tokyo it's not bourbon. When I started in Radwan made in Maryland, Pennsylvania. It wasn't rat whiskey rye was dominant grain on the East Coast when they come here and that's what they first started us probably George Washington was one of the first distillers I'll get this question all time who's the first distiller someone says a words I you know what I say? The first old farmer got over the mountains got a steel set up claims at the first and Is that another so I don't know whether anybody really knows who really registered still rewards. 38:17 Now that's going to be a mystery that will never going to solve. So back to the rye You know? So when was that when was that introduced here? Because I'd we had mentioned that it was it was sourced at one point for wild turkey 38:31 well it made in Pennsylvania were made for us in Pennsylvania. Okay, but we've ever since I've been here we bottle right? Then we started Mike or own 38:41 probably 38:43 late 60s early 70s. Most rise says 95% 100% rise. Ours is old fashioned formula. It's got raw corn, corn and barley. And that's way that if you look back to original recipes for and Pennsylvania, Maryland as well, they were 39:00 right. So I mean that's so you're keeping the same Nashville that you you sort of were even right. You can consider that contract was stealing if you were taking it out of out of Maryland and bring it back here. Is that 39:12 technically what it was? No, they was making it for us. 39:15 Yeah. Wasn't that considered contract distilling 39:17 or they was gone? Yeah. Same way bother stores in Kentucky right now. does a lot of social media does still brands, it does not have the story as Nautica, and that's what's made the bourbon market short right now, a lot of Bourbons made such a huge jump in the last seven or eight years. Same way as a lot of them were selling bourbon, other people live in a barn and lived under other brands. And now they're shorter bourbon. 39:43 So what's your what's your what's your take on that? Do you think? Are you a fan of indie peas or non distilling producers? Do you 39:51 think? Well, you know, they're making it for people how they want by either I guess or how they want it done. But no, monastery is Bowser says bourbon or rye all have come out of hit on it right. 40:06 Rising Tide raises all ships and right that's that's the way to look at it. So So yeah, so you've been doing that for a while. Rare Breed is the the barrel proof baby of yours. So kind of talk about the inception of that. 40:21 Well, actually, we were tasted we sample say we sample everything we're saying was Asian each year sitting here in LA the visitors come in, we'd be safe and we would sample right in the warehouse at that time. Dr. Bone had a thief pulled our Berlin sampler dr. Terry lovers come in KFC. Why can we get some of this? Why can't we get some of that? That's what brought to me. That's what brought the idea for us here that if they've wanted, that we could probably make it happen. Right? Right. It's easy enough to just not just basically just dump it right away. Don't need to prove it down too much. Right? You can't prove it that Yeah, not can prove it down. Actually, the only thing you can do is put a little water behind it to clean out your filters. Because you got a filter to get this so much at char HR and dump trolls. You'll see big flakes a char and Eric comes loose in that barrel. Then you have a lot of little fan jar that you had to filter to get f5 Charla, 41:21 a lot of people like that fine char at least some of the whiskey geeks What about you, do you when you when you have the opportunity to just go and sample something or go ahead and just fill up your own bottle? Whatever it is, do you get a little bit of that just barrel char sitting around in there? Do you 41:34 like that? Really, you don't get with a thief pull it out. You don't get that in there when he jumped the barrel and get everything out of it. 41:41 Right. But are you a fan of it? Because Because he don't be people like people? I mean, I I don't know. I look at it and you're like, Oh, it's kind of like an extra little little thing about having the bottles you can can you swirl it around you can see that 41:52 a lot of people's like so something wrong with it when they see that is what it is. 41:57 Yeah, I could see a probably a general consumer market would probably look at it like that. The same reason why everybody went to chill filtration at one point because you put ice in it and all of a sudden looks cloudy, but now we're starting to see this shift or this turn where people are, they're asking for, you know, non shelf. They're asking for throw a little piece of char in there for good measure. So I know 42:20 I know, I know it's authentic or something, you know, actually we never use chill for it depends on the proof. It depends on how much water you're adding when you cut it down whether the show failed or not. So at one on one prove up in just a few years ago we never geophones this tall it that what will happen to it. If you say you're shipping it from here and maybe 40 degrees goes to Canada 20 below, they get cloudy and hazy. And that's what you're doing. You're checking out some of those sayings. They won't get that away when you chill. 43:00 Now there's there's always the the never ending debate or story. If you do chill filter it are you removing any flavor. 43:10 Well, unless you see by federal law, if you move so much flavor, you can't call the bourbon anymore. So now you are doing very little flavors. 43:22 So you don't think it's really affecting anything you think it's more of a aesthetic. 43:26 Yeah, it's a now in the lower proves if you're adding a lot of water. See we're not a rule of thumb. It takes about a gallon of water Drew's 100 gallons of bourbon one proof point. So our barrel proof right now is 116.8. And we bonded one on one. You had very little water to it. That is coming on that barrel. 140 something you couldn't have 80 proof you had a lot of water to it. Absolutely. Because we just seal distill it low proof and put it in a barrel at low Bruce to say Hi, are you still were allowed to steal up? 160 proof? Hmm. And I use simple terms. You like to eat steak? 44:05 Do you want it well done or you want to medium rare? Yeah, 44:08 you like it? Well done. 44:10 I'm not a well done fan. I'm a medium medium rare. Just you don't get a lot of the those flavors you 44:15 answer my question. 44:18 You're taking the flavor. Hello. 44:20 Yeah, I mean, so it sounds like your state guy we were talking about already. So 44:27 are you uh, yeah, ribeye fillet. What's your what's your 44:30 what's your Academy? Like on the primary of verse your prime rib guy? I didn't even think about that row horse race choices. 44:37 Oh, yeah. That's so Joe Redis she had she had prime rib cooker for you go out around. Yeah. 44:45 You know, when the children are growing up, she cooked all the time. And now just the two of us and she never knows what time I'm getting home at nights. So weed out just if I'm in town, we added lunch. And you know, it's bad when you go restaurants now and they bring the teeth to you. Like what we said, 45:05 Jane? Yeah, well, I mean, you're here in Lawrenceburg. So I'm sure everybody probably knows you by name, that's for sure. Right. 45:10 Lehman likes to their place to we go to Lex and a lot of course I got a lot more restaurants and we have here in Lawrenceburg. 45:18 Absolutely. And so let's let's kind of talk about you know your time here at the distillery now you spend a lot of time down at the gift shop, chicken, some hand sign and bottles. 45:27 Try to get down at least once today, but I'm in distillery. Most all the time. I try to get to this person or at least once to today, usually about this time they afternoon. course they get off. Regular workers gets off at 330. So I'll usually go down our late night afternoons and sit around. I like 45:48 is it about you think it's the best part of your day? Or do you just like to have a healthy balance of getting in front of people? 45:52 I want to hear what people have to say. You know, I'm on the list and see what they have to say. Uh huh. 46:01 And plus you've got your your scooter, your own personalized scooter down there. 46:05 They had two bunnies. I can't get around and he feels he goes in these fields and I write it down here. 46:12 Right. Really? Okay, so it's an off road kind of guy. 46:16 Yes. Run 40 miles an hour on the road. Well, you 46:19 could just take it to the McDonald's parking lot if you're getting hungry today. Right. 46:23 It's not lost in Mattoon last night for the road he's got turns angles narrow lane. They bought that special for me I didn't even know that he's getting it till one day they said we need you down to Visitor Center will what it was I thought somebody that are wanting bottles I walked in and hey, come pushing that out. Sit here. This is what you go around around. 46:45 But you actually came up here we're recording outside on this hill. You actually came up here in your car you're looking actually drove up here on that? Yes. And now if had been the first for the week? Well, they tease me about this. You know what I draw most of the time 46:59 when you got most of the time 47:00 1998 Ford pickup truck. four wheel drive. Yeah, now I feel as well. And my wife forgot to her for Christmas. She's never drove it much so it's been sitting in the garage for three weeks so I told her to get out and drive Yeah, well battery dies, right? Well, it's it's only got 4000 miles on it. Yeah, and I'm driving a whole lot then well $2,000 we go to Destin Florida we're vacation Fourth of July we we drove down back so to 47:31 see now everybody that lives out in the the Destin region they know where to catch you when it when it comes time to for family vacations and stuff like that is so the other thing that you know I kind of want to talk about just kind of kind of wrap it up with some more bourbon talk is over the years you know you've had your hands in a lot of the releases that have come out and stuff like that you've handed a lot over to Eddie as well and then you've everybody's what he's really banging on Bruce to really move here now. We've I've been I've been sensing that a lot recently. You know where do you kind of see the the lineage going? I mean you excited to have to have Bruce come into here and do you think he's gonna do a good job like what do you think that's gonna be like? 48:11 Well like he said if he if he says I don't do something the heavens me. 48:17 Me and Bruce holdovers from there 48:22 but this is saying I enjoy so much about to bourbon business. All of us are close friends here in Kentucky if one of them gets in trouble others doing is anything they can to help them out. And we talked about Booker know Elmer Lee and part rain we all grew up together. Fred Nolan he grew up together at Parker son Craig been they they're about the same age they grew up together. But Craig had to give it up you know Parker old friend of mine he had Ellis disease engages in his 70s he got the point tour he still could talk all right he couldn't do anything they have big trucking company isn't cattle farms. So Craig had to give it up and stay in taking care of the farms and all now you got Bruce and free its own free little free together now so steal that vision is going on in 49:16 yeah i mean you do see this this family lineage is happening across pretty much pretty much all of them right i mean there's there's something that that there is to be said about that 49:27 little bit different on the heaven Hill side right let disappears disappears and more more business focused rather than distilling focused but the only thing known is to relive 49:37 all of this is Sharon before and countries are stock 49:41 so at one point would you would you rather had the opportunity to like buy back wild turkey and put it under the Russell name? No, we never did own it. Yeah. Well not buy it back. I'm just saying like if the opportunity presented itself or was just something that probably would never would have happened and it wouldn't happen yeah. 49:58 Yeah, it's the know it's very costly. Yes, yes, very costly. And see, most sayings if you don't turn your inventory winter for months, you're not going to be in business very long. See here we're not thinking about even turned inventory with the same date 10 to 12 years from now. So we got a lot of money tied up space in the state of Kentucky we pay a tax on each barrels and since you're in ages, yes the state of Kentucky 50:26 now you'd also mentioned 12 years but from what I understand and what I remember is that you're you're more of a like a seven to eight year old bourbon guys the 50:34 same to toys with seven to 12 Yeah, now we do an older limitation ever was while we put out 14 year old 15 the same thing the decades if we just finished the ad put out it's got 10 to 20 year old version, but it's just a few barrels and we we keep our record bottling one a lot 1400 Barroso badge bother in a small but there's no such term as small badge 50:59 now you can doesn't 51:00 really matter you can call whatever you want ours is about 100 250 barrels who were tasted all the time we found somebody thanks agent a little extra special will set them aside and keep taste them and if he starts getting that woody okie taste like a lot of would know he tastes you like an older bourbon but I don't like it and he starts getting that we can move them down at the bottom of our house and slow at age and down. We can't move same hundred thousand barrels as well on the inventory right now. 51:26 So I guess let's let's talk about that with Woody and okie bourbon because there is kind of a shift in the way that consumers are looking at buying bourbon when it comes to like a whiskey geek market right when people are coming out with crazy age data 2327 year old Bourbons and they do they've got this like heavy okie painting panicky kind of taste and flavor to it. However people like you are saying that's that's probably not the way you should be drinking personal taste Yeah, 51:57 how much it's your taste you drink whatever you live with this not my taste so 52:02 why is it that you think that 52:05 I would say a new whiskey geek or new whiskey consumer gets totally enthralled with this large number on the package rather than the taste and 52:15 it's a lot of people thanks older it is a better it is now go back to scotch which I know a lot about that to see they're using barrels has been used to us as I get as we 1516 years old to really get some good taste in it because they're using barrels and we've already used and the one thing about it when they start using your barrels they want to keep using them goes and eight years we lose about a third of a barrel is soaks into the wood and they're getting some flavor allied barrel so if they used our barrels one year beams or makers or Buffalo Trace and then it's going to change the taste of their product and that's one thing it's like food and all I want to taste the same everytime i don't i don't want some food taste this way tonight. Next week it tastes different way I don't 53:08 there's a lot of variations you can do to mac and cheese 53:12 anymore right and then you know that's funny saying mac and cheese now is all over the world he used to be he didn't see much but they were you going to world as mac and cheese they got it all now so many different ways they fix it now and cookies 53:29 Do you have a favorite mac and cheese rest we could just turn this into mac and cheese pursuit because I think there's there's not a lot of people that don't like mac and cheese 53:35 right. 53:37 Joe rata make a good mac and cheese. We don't eat much. No no mac and cheese for 53:41 all much anymore. My parents put two majors in it. 53:45 Really? 53:46 That's a new one. Here they their mac and cheese when I was growing up had two majors in it that see I don't think I've ever had that. 53:55 I can always try it though. I can always try. So we're gonna wrap it up with with one one last question here. And this actually came from a listener. His name is Jeremy. And he said me myself of several people that I know love visiting the distillery we love to visit with Jimmy for an hour. So he's a good rich source of information and bourbon lore. Now, he kind of wants to ask, what's a couple things to like an advice that you would give of things or codes to live by for younger generations? 54:24 me do it. Like I said a while ago, do it right or don't do it at all. Don't try to change keep consistent taste and flavor and all the time. Don't keep changing different times as you say to him says I'm hard headed in ways but I've done a lot of experiment in over the years with American honey with the barrels has been a scotch different barrels and everything. I've done a lot of experiment over the years but I stay strictly to old tradition doing it the right way. 54:57 Well, that's that's the bourbon side. But just in life in general. And life in general. What what what do you have some good, some good little tidbits that you can hand down to young generations of whether it's Don't work too hard? Maybe it's just enjoy what you love, whatever it is, enjoy 55:14 what you love. Don't try to be somebody who are not. That's what, you know, I don't I hope you see I'm not put on the plane Zambia, just, that's something I'm a piece of trash put on a big spiel. And I'm not if I really had 55:31 deep thoughts with with plain old Jimmy right. Alright. So let's go ahead, we'll wrap it up right there. So make sure that if you get the opportunity to come to Lawrenceburg and visit Wild Turkey, try to figure out was we're recording around three o'clock right now four o'clock, he said he's usually down at the visitor center then. So that's when you know is probably a good time to go catch him. Or you can ask the visitor center and I'll be glad to come down there and salty. There you go. You can do that as well. Right. So he'll do that for our panel cast. Listen, I will. Jimmy thank you so much for hopping on the show today. It was a pleasure to talk to you and you know, capture a lot of that good information. I'm sure we all learned something new every single time and I think we're gonna have to go back and figure out who this Ezra Brooks character was. 56:14 Yeah. Well, thank you for coming and being with us. We enjoy it anytime. You're always welcome here anytime you want to come 56:19 back, except your house right. Now that 56:22 that's all. We're family. 56:24 It's okay. I'll accept that. I'll accept that. Would you be surprised? 56:29 I'm not good on these computers. Other people tell me I saw we were home on 56:36 the internet. No. 56:39 Well, you know where you live? 56:40 Yeah, that's that's the that's the scary thing about it. gotta hide your address. 56:46 No, I'm in the phone. My name is in the phone book here and everything. 56:49 Oh, well. There you go. You can you can you can find them in the local Lawrence County phone book. Right. So with that, I want to say Jimmy, thank you again for coming on the show today. It was a pleasure to have you. That's how you can find Jimmy and I can meet him I'm sure we already talked about it will be back down in Destin, Florida at some point soon. And who knows you might see him at your favorite liquor store across the country signing bottles. 57:10 Thank you, sir. Appreciate you come. Say you're always welcome. Anytime you want to go. 57:15 I appreciate it. And make sure you follow bourbon pursuit on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. And if you do like what you hear you want to see more interviews with legends like Jimmy, make sure you support us patreon.com pa te r eo in comm slash bourbon pursuit. That's how we're able to keep buying new equipment, putting miles on the car and making these good interviews happen. So with that, I want to say thank you again and we'll see everybody next week. 57:40 Cheers.

Gary Myers: Hi, my name is Gary Myers. Joe Fontenot: And I'm Joe Fontenot. Gary: We're the hosts of the "Answering The Call" podcast. Joe: And this is the podcast where we talk to people who are answering God's call. Gary: Today our guest is a well-known apologist, Gary Habermas. He also is a visiting professor here at New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary. Joe: Yes. Which is news, cause he's just recently started. And I just found out that he ... So he teaches ... He's a professor at Liberty, and he does only PHDs. And- Gary: So you can take a master's level class from Gary Habermas here. Joe: And here. That's right. So, the only place you can take a class from Gary Habermas and not be in a PHD is NOBTS, which is a completely shameless plug on our part. Gary: That's exciting. Joe: I'm shameless. So, anyway, in our podcast today, he talks about something very interesting for apologetics. He talks about where doubt and apologetics intersect. And it's interesting for a few reasons. Number one, apologetics is not normally known for that, but number two, he has been through a lot of doubt himself. His wife passed away, and so he had to, for a good chunk of his kids' growing up, he had to raise them, and just all the difficulty that came with that. Joe: So this was a really interesting interview that I'm excited about. Gary: Yeah. He has a powerful testimony. He's not only a great apologist, but he has a dynamic testimony for Christ. Joe: Yeah. Gary: Let's hear from Gary. Joe: Sounds good. Marilyn Stewart: Gary, you have been with us this weekend, Defend, and it's been great. And you are known as probably the best resurrection scholar there is today. You've done a lot of research, written a lot on that. You've also written about doubt, why Christians doubt, and what we can do about it. Gary Habermas: So we wanna get to that later, but I want to begin with the resurrection chapter. 1 Corinthians 15, and the first time I heard you tell this as evidence for the resurrection a few years ago, it was revolutionary to me. And in particular, the dating of this creed in 1 Corinthians 15. So I want you to talk about that a little bit, and in verses three and four, there is what we call a creed. And it does say that Jesus was buried, that He was raised on the third day, according ... that He was ... that He died for our sins, was buried, and raised on the third day according to scriptures. Marilyn: So talk to us about that. Tell us what it means. Gary Habermas: Those two verses, three and four, well, let me back up. Before he gives the creed, he says, "When I came to you Corinthians, I presented the Gospel." Now, if someone says to me, what's God's side of the gospel? Ours is the, "I do." The "Are you gonna do or not do?" But God's side is minimum. DD, death, resurrection of Jesus. Gary Habermas: So after saying to them, I presented the Gospel to you, and what you did with it basically determines where you spend eternity, 'cause that was the message of Jesus, the central message. Paul illustrates number one, and he says it's number one, because in verse three, he says, "I delivered unto you that which I also received as of first importance." Now, you could translate that real first point. But the Greek commentators think what he's saying is, this is the most important, central thing I can tell you. I've given to you, that which is of first importance, that Christ, and notice the title is used, rather than Jesus, died for our sins according to scriptures, buried, rose again the third day, according to scriptures, and then appeared. And the appearance is a part of the creed, too. Marilyn: Yes. Gary Habermas: The creed ... There may be more than one creed here. There's some people who think he attached a couple appearance traditions together, but at the very least, there are five appearances to which he attaches his at the end, making six. So, and in that five, it's very, very important apologetically, there's three to individuals, and you couldn't find any more ... I mean the names are huge. Marilyn: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Peter. Gary Habermas: There's Peter. Marilyn: He says Cephas, mm-hmm (affirmative). Gary Habermas: Right, Cephas, and that's a pointer, by the way, to it being really early. Marilyn: Oh, yes. Gary Habermas: Because of Cephas. Marilyn: Yes. Gary Habermas: Yeah. It's- Marilyn: Tell why. Why is that? Gary Habermas: Well because he's using his Hebrew name as opposed to his, I don't want to say nickname, but you know, he's using Cephas. And I believe he's called that in Galatians 1, too, which is also important, when he goes back and gets this message, which is when scholars think he got this. Marilyn: Yes. Gary Habermas: There's Peter there. There's James. Of course it's being told to Paul, and he adds his name at the end, and there's three groups. A group called "the twelve," "the five hundred," and a group called "all the apostles," which is almost always taken to mean a group larger than the twelve, but that apostle is geared ... Well Acts 1 is defined by who's with the risen Jesus. So we are there. We are in the middle of it. This is, as Paul says, of first importance. Gary Habermas: Now if you add the name John, who's not in the creed, but if you had John, you would have the four most influential Christians who ever lived in the early church, and here's what's interesting about that. You have Paul, James, the pastor of Jerusalem, Peter, the chief apostle. When Paul goes to Jerusalem, and most people believe he received it in Galatians 1, just a few years after the cross. He goes back 14 years later in Galatians 2, and John is there. Marilyn: Yes. Gary Habermas: So the big four are there. Marilyn: They're all included. Gary Habermas: Three in the creed, and John's added. And when Paul says in Galatians ... Don't wanna get ahead of us, here, but when Paul says, "I set before them the Gospel I was preaching to see if I was running in vain." Again, we're on this primary topic. He says five words in English: "They added nothing to me." They added nothing to me, which means, we're on the same page. Which of course is what Paul says at the end of the creed, 1 Corinthians 15:11, he says, "Whether it is I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believe. So if you don't want to get it from me, I don't care. Go talk to Peter. Go talk to John. You're not gonna hear a different message." Marilyn: Now one thing we might oughta do is explain what a creed was and how it was used. Gary Habermas: Yeah. In the new testament ... This is earth shaking. I really think it's evangelical priest's oppositions that keep us from seeing this, 'cause the liberals came up with this argument first. Marilyn: I was there. Gary Habermas: I shouldn't say liberals. Don't take derogatorily, but critical scholars. Marilyn: Sure. Gary Habermas: And in the New Testament, there are dozens of credal texts. You go well, that's kind of subjective, how would you know? Well, sometimes the author, usually Paul, but sometimes the author says so. Twice Paul says 1 Corinthians 11, the communion passage, 1 Corinthians 15, "I deliver unto you that which I also receive." The communion passage he says, "Jesus is Christ" in this one. In 1 Corinthians 11, that which I also receive from the Lord. Gary Habermas: Then in other passages, especially the pastorals, which critics have an issue with, but evangelicals don't. In the pastorals, Paul says things like, "Observe the traditions of the elders," or "Here is a trustworthy saying." Over and over again. "Here is a trustworthy saying." I told my students that is the first century way to make a footnote. Because in your translations, it's starting to come out this way now, in the modern translations. These things are set off in verse. Like Philippians 2, Christological Hymn, that's probably the best known one that's set off in verse. And now they're starting to do it with the other ones. Marilyn: That's great. Gary Habermas: So here's the definition of a creed. These were little snippets, little one liners that were taught to a mostly, up to maybe as high as 90% illiterate audience. How do you teach somebody something when they can't write their own name? So when I'm lecturing, I'll say, "Okay. Here's a secular example. Jack and Jill went up the hill-" Marilyn: And everybody can repeat it. Gary Habermas: ... And the crowd says, "to fetch a pail of water." Alright, here's a religious example. Amazing grace, how sweet the sound, 'cause that might be what Philippians 2 is, a hymn. And they go, "Oh. Cool." Okay Jack and Jill, or Amazing Grace. Can you teach a five year old? Sure. Can they write their name? No. But they can learn that. Yes. We saw it in our play last week. Okay, that's how they spread the word in the early church with illiterate people, and that's how the word spread for the first 20 years before the first new testament book was written. It's really an exciting study. Marilyn: It is, and I think this is what impressed me so, besides the timing, which we're gonna get to. But in this little creed, it does include that He died for our sins, according to scripture, was buried ... Each one of those. The fact that he was buried, because of course there are those that have tried to say, "He just ... His body was eaten by dogs or thrown in the ditch." And so each one is just so powerful. And then raised on third day again, according to scripture. So it is ... It's powerful. Everything about this chapter is powerful. Marilyn: Now the thing I remember most is when you gave us a time when that creed was probably being used. They met for worship, and by this point in time they were probably repeating it. So, talk about the timing, the date. Gary Habermas: Yeah, and you know what? This is not just an evangelical thing. You could find critics who are gonna say what I'm gonna say next. And that is, they will say that when Paul meets Jesus on the road to Damascus, a number of these creeds were already in existence. So they are called pre-Pauline. Pre-Pauline means they are dated somewhere between the cross and Paul's conversion. So that again is like, whoa. Then you think, wait a minute. A huge implication of that. Critics used to, old days, not so much anymore, used to say, Jesus was a first-century Palestinian carpenter, nice guy. Paul was the one who founded Christianity. Paul's the cultist. Gary Habermas: Well, how could Paul be the cultist if all these credal passages predate Paul? Marilyn: Absolutely. Gary Habermas: And 80% of the credal passages are on the gospel of the deity, death, and resurrection of Jesus. So the gospel- Marilyn: 80%. Gary Habermas: ... Was laid out before Paul was ever converted, so Paul could not have been the founder of the creeds. Marilyn: Have you written a book on this? Gary Habermas: No. I've written parts of books. Marilyn: Okay. Gary Habermas: But I just ... My teaching assistant Bill, I mean, just edited and republished the best known book on the creeds, which was by a famous German, well actually French-German theologian, Oscar Coleman, and it's called "The Earliest Christian Confessions." And many people think it's still the best thing ever written. It's only like 65 pages. And he lays out the creeds. There are different kinds. There are baptismal creeds you say when you go down to the water, there are things in preaching, there are type of hymns, they are doxologies you can say when you do blessing. There's all kinds. Then he started unpacking these, and it's a classic book. But it's been out of print for a long time and very expensive, so we got it reprinted. Marilyn: Oh, excellent. Excellent. Gary Habermas: So, yeah, it is exciting. Marilyn: Going back to the date, so if its pre-Pauline, then we're talking about within three years of Jesus dying on the cross. Gary Habermas: That's right. Marilyn: Is that correct? Three years? There just is nothing like this in our ancient manuscripts. The gospels are unique, and the letters that Paul wrote are unique, 'cause they're pretty close. But- Gary Habermas: They're 20. 20 plus. Marilyn: Yes. Gary Habermas: But they predate the gospels, and in the gospels, a genre. Now, there is a move right now to agnostics who think that Mark was probably written ... Well, one, in his doctoral dissertation ... He's an agnostic. He dates Mark 38 to 42. So there is a move to get some gospels back, but for the most part, everybody puts Paul before. Gary Habermas: Now there's creeds in other books, very well known ones, but for example, there's a pretty strong belief today that in the book of Acts, there are a number of what they call sermon summaries, and the little snippets, not the whole sermon that Peter gives here or there or Paul, but little snippets read in a ... fashion, that you could block off as quote. And so there are other passages too, but I think Paul does most of them because by the time the Gospels and Acts are written, it was already pretty common knowledge. Gary Habermas: Paul was sort of breaking the ice. He was sort of the ice breaker for the preaching. And he gets it out there by leading with the words of the elders first. Marilyn: Interesting. Now without ... I don't want to just take this to where we beat it to death, but I'm very interested in how a creed develops. And I can picture a small group of people meeting. They don't have a church building. They're in a house. And they just begin to remind each other. They're talking about this. What does this mean? It's very early after the cross and the resurrection. How do creeds develop? Gary Habermas: Well first of all, everything you just said plus throw in illiteracy, and if they're going to get it, they can't even write down the creed and pass it on because they can't write. So, you teach them, and what sets the creeds apart? You have to be really, really, good in the Greek. And I'm not. I mean, I minored in it in school, but that's not good enough. Gary Habermas: The text often has a ... Hebrew poetry is not like English, but it often has a staccato kind of ... And there's a pretty wide feeling that that creed in 1 Corinthians 15:3 to following, that there are two stanzas. It breaks off very nicely in two stanzas, and then verse eight, "Last of all, He appeared to me." Paul is more or less appending his own experience to it. Gary Habermas: So they had to teach it in some kind of fashion ... Secular example. If you're gonna teach "Jack and Jill" ... Religious example. If you're gonna teach "Amazing Grace," it has to be so the kids can remember it next week when they're in the classroom or when they're at home. And so it becomes a teaching device, or even a mnemonic kind of device. Marilyn: So it's teaching. Do you think it also could just develop? I mean I can almost picture the earliest Christians going, as they discuss what they've seen, what they've witnessed, as eye witnesses, and just going, "Wow. It's according to scripture." You know He ... All these different things. So maybe even from the members themselves, rather than the apostles. Could it develop that way? Gary Habermas: Sometimes in writings, things are immortalized because they're so catchy. I mean, I think of C.S. Lewis, for example, who's given to a lot of these. But how about his comment in his autobiography, something like, "And then I came into the kingdom, kicking and screaming, the most reluctant convert in all of England." You hear that once or twice ... Or "Pain is God's megaphone." Marilyn: Right. Right. Gary Habermas: You hear phrases like that, it's like, "Whoa, that ministered to me." Well if it ministers to me, I'm gonna memorize it, 'cause I figure it's gonna minister to you. Marilyn: Right. Right. And it may not even be that the author at the time said, "I'm gonna write something that they're gonna repeat for the rest of human history-" Gary Habermas: Oh, sure. Marilyn: ... But it just resonates and fits. And interesting. Gary Habermas: Well, cosmology had not ... Is a very heavy subject, but you can download it for ... C.S. Lewis had a one liner. If there ever was a time when nothing existed, nothing would exist now. Whoa, that's easy. Well, when you're looking for something, instead of, "I can't explain that argument. That's so and so." But you got a little one liner like that, that stops a guy in his tracks. So, I think we judge by one liners, mostly on the Gospel, but 80% of the creeds are Gospel. A few of them are other things. You know, how we minister the church, maybe some non-Gospel things about Jesus ... So I think clearly what rose up was what was of central importance in the earliest church. Marilyn: Absolutely. Well we've always talked about this as a resurrection chapter because Paul goes on to say, "If the resurrection didn't happen, you need to pity Christians." We have nothing to go on. This is it. Everything hangs on the resurrection. And you mentioned last night, and I just want to give you a chance to speak about this, about how the resurrection should give us peace and joy as we're facing death and the loss of loved ones. Gary Habermas: Yeah, and that's the practical side. If we come in with the truth, how should we lead with it, and I think things like the creeds, and I think things like ... We mentioned doing others' thinking for them. Sometimes parents say, "Now remember, honey. I've told you before. When this things, situation, happens, here's what you should do when this happens in school. Or be careful of this." Gary Habermas: They are teaching moments, and I think the resurrection, being the sort of thing ... Here's a great example. Paul says, in Thessalonians, 1 Thessalonians, he says, "We grieve, but not like those without hope." There's a great little phrase at the end. Yep, we're gonna grieve. And you go, "Duh. I just lost my Dad, you know?" But not as those without hope because grieving with the hope of heaven is a world of difference than grieving without the hope of heaven. Gary Habermas: So those are the teaching moments where the truth can come in and say, "Have you ever thought about the whole world that resurrection opens? It's called heaven." Or a phrase like, "For 40 days and nights, Jesus appeared to his disciples, and during that time, they say walking, talking, eternal life." Jesus embodied eternal life. Jesus embodied heaven. Those kind of thoughts, that's closest you'll come to heaven. I think they're very powerful- Marilyn: I think so too. Gary Habermas: ... When we're going through tough times. Marilyn: Wow, that is ... And this is something you know about and have written about. You have several books that deal with grief, doubt, all these different things that are real life experiences. So I won't go into your personal experience. I'll let people buy your books, Gary Habermas, and look that up. But this takes us then to something that Christians always deal with. We do grieve, but we also face anxiety and depression. And this is something else you've written a lot about. You've talked to hundreds of people who have contacted you, but the question is ... You've mentioned that we allow bad thoughts to kind of direct us, but how do we ... What do we do? What are the practical steps in facing depression, anxiety, or doubt? Gary Habermas: How to get out of it, right? Marilyn: How to get out of it. Gary Habermas: You reverse what you're saying and substitute truth for the lie. Example I used today was Romans 1:25, after a long catalog of sins, Paul says, "What characterizes all of them is these folks loved and believed a lie," 1:25. Twelve one and two, he says, "But you're not part of them. You ought to think differently, so I beseech you to change," and in verse two, I used to ask, "Okay, great. But how do we do it?" Gary Habermas: Verse two B, 12:2B says, "By changing the way you think." Or Philippians Chapter Four, he says, "Be anxious for nothing." 4:6. Two verses later, he says, "Don't think of these anxiety-causing thoughts. Substitute God's truth. And we think of it maybe as a goody-two-shoes verse, and different translations use different words. Whatever is this, whatever is this, whatever is of good report, and he ends with, "Whatever is excellent or praise worthy, think." And some of the modern translations say, "Meditate," to think deeply and single-mindedly on these things. Gary Habermas: Paul's saying take your anxiety of verse six. Be anxious for nothing. He's already said, "Stop it." And he said, "Put in its place God's truth that will transform your thinking." Then he says in the next verse, verse nine, "Those things you have seen in me, do them." In the Greek, it's "Continue to practice." So I call verse nine "Practice, practice, practice." Gary Habermas: So, Paul has given a remedy there. Stop doing what you're doing. Now in between, he also says praise. So, stop doing what you're doing. Pray, and give it to the Lord. Praise. Change your thinking, and for crying out loud, do it every time you need it. So he's got a remedy right there. And those things are repeated many times in Psalms, Proverbs, Ephesians, other places. Marilyn: So it is a matter of thinking, meditating on the bible scripture, and that's a good help. Gary Habermas: And practicing. Putting one foot in front ... Peter and John both say to follow Jesus ... Jesus said, "If you love me, you'll obey." They both say, "Walk in his steps." So, you put one foot in front of another is how you get a quarter mile, a half a mile, a mile. You have to start, and you have to make progress. Marilyn: But in talking to people who are going through tough times, often times they say, "I just can't pray. I can't read the bible right now." What do you say to them? Gary Habermas: That's where if it's a husband, or wife, or child, someone that you live with them ... Because you would hear things that other people wouldn't hear. You'd step in and say, "Look, forgive the sermon, but you're in pain right now, and you asked me to help. Let me ask you a question. Give me those once again." Gary Habermas: "Well, I can't pray right now." Gary Habermas: "Do you think that's true, or do you think that's false?" Gary Habermas: "Well, now that I've said it, I'm kind of embarrassed. So I think ... Well it's true, 'cause I can't pray." Gary Habermas: "Really? Okay. Let's just pray together here. Now did you pray or not pray?" Gary Habermas: "Alright, I prayed." Gary Habermas: "What do you have to do? It's like saying 'I don't wanna go play my instrument,' but it's not gonna get played unless I sit down and start ... You start doing it. So, are you really saying you can't pray?" Gary Habermas: "No, I'm saying I don't feel-" Gary Habermas: Bingo. You don't feel like praying. That's precisely why you practice it now. Because if you don't use a limb, learned the old saying in therapy, use it or lose it. It's like that in mental health, and it's like that in spiritual health, too. Marilyn: I think that's very good advice. Feelings are just so difficult to deal with. Emotions are difficult, but you're saying take it one step at a time, day by day, hour by hour, and simply go to the Lord in prayer, and that's a way to practice, practice, practice. Gary Habermas: Yeah, and the teaching, didactic passages, like Colossians 3:2, "Set your mind on things above, not on earthly things," well that's like a teaching. And you're probably in pretty good shape when you read the verse. But in John 11, Jesus is using the same truth with the two sisters when Lazarus dies. And he gives them a theology exam, and they pass the theology exam. Yeah, we'll see him some day at the end of time, but what about it right now? Gary Habermas: And Jesus says, "He who lives and believes in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live." So I have two messages for you. You'll be with him at the end of time, but does it help you to think that your brother is currently alive? Does that make you feel better? He's not moldering in a Palestinian tomb. He is currently alive. Gary Habermas: And I made the comment last night ... When my wife died, it was actually her sister who's aid this to me. She said, "You know, I miss Deb." She said, "I miss Deb a lot." But she said, "It helps me to think she will never get sick again. It'll never be cold. It'll never be too hot. She's fine. And the blessing the Lord's given her ... He's compensating for the loss of her children and husband. She's in the best possible place she could be." So, I started telling my children ... Now, this is a side. I don't mean to get into it, but just to mention how we can get illustrations. Next to the resurrection, I've probably done the most work on near death experiences. Marilyn: That's true, yes. Gary Habermas: And when you talk to people who claim to have crossed over ... They claim that. Who knows? But it's a testimony. I used their testimonies, after studying hundreds of them, and I told my children ... After their mom died, the youngest was only nine, and I said, "Guys, I wanna tell you something. You can weep for your mom ... " Sorry, I said it the wrong way. I said, "You can weep for yourself, but don't weep for your mom, 'cause A, she's fine, and B, this is true, she wouldn't come back even if she had the opportunity." And then it was like, "Really?" Gary Habermas: "Yeah." Gary Habermas: "Well, Dad, I'm gonna miss Mom, but if Mom's happy-" Marilyn: Then that's okay. Gary Habermas: ... "I can handle it." Yeah, I had a situation speaking to a group of Christian medical doctors one time, a medical group. And I was talking about near death experiences, one of many lectures. And a woman there ... Her husband was a physician, surgeon, and she raised her hand. I did not know. This was unexpected. And she raised her hand, she goes, "I've been to heaven." And the doctors in the room went ... It's one thing to say that ... I mean it's one thing to be there, it's another thing to claim that. You're a physician's wife. Marilyn: Sure. Gary Habermas: You know, act like it. One of them was actually saying that. And I said, "Okay. What child was this?" She said she was in childbirth. "What child?" Gary Habermas: "Number three." Gary Habermas: I said, "I've been lead to believe that the strongest biological tie in the universe is between a mother and her child." Gary Habermas: She goes, "I'd agree." Gary Habermas: I said, "Okay, tell me something. Have you seen your third baby yet?" Gary Habermas: "I have not." Gary Habermas: "You're in your death experience?" Gary Habermas: "Yes." Gary Habermas: "Okay, let me ask you something, in front of all these physicians. Did you want to return?" Gary Habermas: And she realized the implications, and she goes, "No." Marilyn: Is that right? Gary Habermas: "I did not want to come back." Gary Habermas: So I teased a little bit, and I said, "You wouldn't want to come back to see your newborn?" Gary Habermas: And she elbows her husband, and she playfully says, "He can take care of the kids." But she did not want to return. Now, Philippians 1, 21 and 23. "I prefer to die and be with the Lord, which is better by far." I think that's what we're talking about, and to me that's a teaching moment. Gary Habermas: It's like, here's the resurrection, but if the resurrection secures heaven, and we really believe that, I can be sorrowful when my wife died, but don't you dare be sorrowful for your wife because she's saying, if she could see you, she's probably joking with me, going, "I'm gonna come haunt you." 'Cause she used to say that to me. "I'm gonna come haunt you. I'm not gonna let you forget this." But when she's more serious, I can just hear her saying it, "I am fine, okay? I am fine. Worry about yourself, but don't worry about me." Gary Habermas: I think that releases me from that kind of anxiety and that kind of depression. And that kind of freed me up. You go, well, everybody has that right, 'cause everybody has near death experiences. Now we're back to Paul, we grieve, but not as those without hope. Gary Habermas: It's because of the resurrection that we can do that. Marilyn: Now, I do want to kind of play devil's advocate here. Gary Habermas: Sure. Marilyn: Okay, you are an adult, though, so you're saying this helped your children as well, perhaps not only just seeing you show that attitude, but as they thought about it, it helped them? Gary Habermas: I teased. I walked through the room, and my daughter might say ... And I have a daughter on the mission field, and the other one's a nurse. But they would say, "Dad, do you mind if I go over here tonight, or can I do this?" And it was something that wasn't really bad, but most parents would say, "I'd really rather not have you get involved with that." Gary Habermas: "Well, come on, Dad, I'm a big girl. I know what I'm doing. I'm 17. I can handle myself." And I would look up to the ceiling, and I would go "Deb. Tell her something, will you?" And everybody'd start laughing. So, I would use this humor to basically say, "Don't know where Mom is, but she's fine." And the kids all responded to that. We didn't make light of it, or laugh, or cut up, but when I would go, "Hey, can you help me with this one? There used to be two of us, okay? The least you can do is have some input, you know?" And I made it short and sweet, and everybody would laugh, and they relaxed, 'cause first of all, that was her personality, and secondly, I knew she was fine. Gary Habermas: We would mix all those sorts of things, and I think they got very easy with it, but when I said to them, "Don't weep for your Mom," I think they realized that took the biggest sting out of it. Marilyn: Yeah, yeah. Okay. Now, but that still doesn't take all the sting out because- Gary Habermas: No, no it doesn't. Marilyn: ... They've got ... And you had to face, like you mentioned last night, doing the laundry, getting the kids to school, through all their activities, plus all your writing deadlines and teaching. Gary Habermas: Teaching. Marilyn: And people have trouble with that. And they go, why did God ... I needed this mother, this wife, this husband, whoever it is. What about that? Gary Habermas: I would say keep doing ... This, what we're talking about ... Think it out, all the way out. Who is God? Well, God ... Let me remember my theology. God is all the omnies. Okay. Can God break promises? Well, sometimes ... Can God break promises? No. Not just he won't, he can't. Am I right? Can God be un-God? No. You're kind of destroying my argument, here. No, what I'm doing is taking away your feelings, which you wanna harbor, which you have no basis for. So, God can't break that promise. No. Can God let you down? Well yeah, because his will is not mine. I understand that, but can God dog you? No. Can God be other than God? No. Gary Habermas: But, as I said today, are his ways also above ours? Yes. So, if we dare to let him be God, I mean, we do wanna let him be God, right, honey? I was saying to my daughter. Yeah, we wanna let him be God. He's gonna be God whether we let him be God or not. Okay. So, if he's gonna be God, can we think that he has some ideas that are not like ours? Look, when you wanna go out with your friends, I don't like what you're doing. If I feel strongly enough about it, I'm gonna say something, right? 'Cause that's what a good parent does, right? Yeah. Gary Habermas: Does God say something when we're going to do it? I guess. But do you think he's always gonna agree with you? No. Not nice when he doesn't agree, is it? No. Could you maybe learn later it was still a good choice? Yeah. And that's not a time for a half hour sermon- Marilyn: Sure. Gary Habermas: ... But you can get it across in two minutes. Marilyn: Yeah. Well this is ... That really underscores how important our thinking is. And you've mentioned that many times, that it's important to think correctly, to get your theology straight, to use your theology- Gary Habermas: To use it. Marilyn: ... In these moments. Gary Habermas: Apply it. Marilyn: And it's tough. It's hard, but yet it's very important. Which also then brings me to my last set of questions, and that's about doubt. Because I've heard you say that doubt is typically not related to the facts or the evidence supporting Christian faith, but again back to those emotions, and I just want to give you a chance to speak to that. Gary Habermas: Yeah, we think. We like to think. I'll just pick on the PHDs and the MDs in our society. Marilyn: Please do. Gary Habermas: How many MDs, how many psychiatrists, don't think correctly? How many PHDs know good theology, and don't apply it? Because when somebody crosses us, or when somebody how about cuts us off in traffic? We have moments where it's visceral, and the first thing that happens is emotions first, and you know what, I have to think. I don't know, I have to be real careful when I say this, but is that what went through Jesus's mind when he said my dad, my God, why have you forsaken me? Marilyn: Sure. Gary Habermas: Sweat drops of blood equaling high anxiety? Paul says be angry and sin not, how about be anxious and sin not? I'm not saying these moods are sinful, but they're not true. So, that's when we step in and say, "What are you getting at?" Well I wonder why God ... So you're going to guess what God should be doing? Yeah. And you know he's all the omnies? Yeah. But yet, you're gonna tell him what the omnies mean. Yeah. And you don't feel so cool when you think ... Yeah. And Jesus had to learn obedience by things he suffered. Is that in the bible? Yeah, it is. It's Hebrews 5. And Jesus was completed by his suffering. Yeah. Why do we behave like that? And I do it with my kids. I did it with my kids. Gary Habermas: My youngest ... Well, my oldest daughter, but my second oldest child, is a nurse now. And she does it with her kids. But she went through a time when she was so scared at age 10, she wouldn't go to bed by herself. And we applied of this correct thinking thing. And it's just a silly example, but she would lie down in the doorway, and about the upper half of her head would be out in the hallway. She was at the end of the hallway, her bedroom. And I'd have to ... Every 15 minutes, I'd look down the hallway, and I'd say, "I love you." And she'd smile, and sometimes she was just dozing off, I'd say, "I love you," or, "Have the burglars gotten you yet?" And after about two months of doing that ... See, I was changing her thinking. See, we can be the surrogate frontal lobes for people who aren't very good frontal lobe thinkers. Marilyn: Well, before you say that, I mean, this is really good, Gary, because I feel like this is what scripture promises that God does, that he's with us in these really tough times. Psalm 34:18, "God is near the broken hearted. He saves those who are crushed in spirit." I mean, I think that's a very important point, too. Gary Habermas: You know what, you could go ... You just started me on something, here. You could find some verses, I'm sure, where God corrects our thinking, and says, "Not this, but this." Marilyn: And it's maybe not an explanation, but just that what you said to your daughter. "I love you." I think that's- Gary Habermas: Which he does say, over and over again. He also says, "I could never leave you or forsake you." Marilyn: Yes. Gary Habermas: He also says, oftentimes, "God will never break his promises." Well, it's more than that. He can't break his promises. Marilyn: He cannot. Gary Habermas: He could- Marilyn: Cannot lie. Gary Habermas: Seminary guys, they have to think the sentence through. God wouldn't break his promises, even if he wanted to, which he doesn't. Okay, I agree. Then why don't you say that when you're going through a rough time? And if someone's real honest, when they think about it, they'll go, "Because I kinda like my sad emotions. It gives me an excuse." Yeah, your feelings do, but your theology doesn't. Marilyn: Oh, that's- Gary Habermas: So what's right? Marilyn: That's powerful. Gary Habermas: Your theology, or your emotions? Marilyn: That's powerful. Now, you were mentioning that we do need people to walk along beside us, surrogate? Gary Habermas: That's my psychologist buddy, Gary Sibcy, clinical psychologist, who says, "Sometimes, we have to be each other's surrogate frontal lobe." Where you do some of your most serious thinking. Like when I first married Eileen, she moves into this family, and I have four kids at home. And somebody would yell out in the other room. Something just happened, and they're on the phone, or they're just goofing around. And my oldest son was prone to do this, and he would go, "I am so angry right now. If he does this one more time, I'm going to ..." And maybe he'd use a word that wasn't like a cuss word, or out of bounds, but it was kind of a strong word. And Eileen would be cooking dinner, and she would yell in there, and she'd go, "Rob!" Do I ... And she wouldn't even look around the corner. She'd just go, "Rob! Do I hear you saying you're bothered right now?" Gary Habermas: "Yeah, I'm blank, blank. I'm really bothered." Gary Habermas: "Oh, I thought I heard you right. Yeah, I did think I heard you say you were bothered. Yeah, okay." So what she's telling them is, use a different word. Or don't use the kind of word that you feel really cool using it, but what it does is double the fire power, and it makes you really angry. You're saying, "Calm down a little bit," but all you said was, "Oh, are you bothered?" And after a while, everybody would start laughing. All right, Eileen. And you'd hear from the other room, "All right, Eileen." Or one night at the dinner table, we were all eating, and she said to one of my children, she goes, "That's a fork. It's not a shovel." But I looked down, and I was holding my fork like this, and I changed it around real fast. Marilyn: She- Gary Habermas: So, what I mean is there's teaching moments, but they're really simple, and you didn't intrude. You didn't say anything horrible. It was funny. "I can hear you're bothered. I get the point." And it just ... It makes people just ... So there's way to tamp down things and diffuse situations. Marilyn: She did a good job. She sounds like a very wise woman, but yes, we do need those people in our lives to do that, to kind of help us keep control of emotion and walk ahead. Gary Habermas: But spouses, and parents, and children, they're in the best position to do it because we will let that show around the house when we never say it in the classroom, in the church. Marilyn: Sure. Oh, yeah. Gary Habermas: You know? Marilyn: They see the real us, don't they? Gary Habermas: And they hear it. Marilyn: Yeah. Gary Habermas: Like what if, what if, what if, and I go, wow, that's me. I'm what if-ing again. Marilyn: Yeah. And you know, that's what we do. We can get very anxious when we think about what if. Well you don't Gary the ... When I first met you years ago, and I began to hear about that you were a resurrection scholar, and then you wrote about doubt and grief, I thought, how do those ... Those don't go together. They seemed at first to not fit. But when I started hearing you speak, it became very clear. These go very well together. Gary Habermas: If this, then this. Marilyn: Yes. Because of the resurrection, we can think differently, and a lot of our doubt and anxiety can ... We can deal with it when we think differently. So this is ... I just appreciate all the work you've done- Gary Habermas: Thanks. Marilyn: ... And all the contributions you've made. And I'll give you a chance to say any last thing that you would like. Gary Habermas: No, I don't have anything else to say, but when you said that, I did think of the verse again in Paul, we brought up several times. We grieve, but not as those without hope. So the add on that we have is ... You go, well, where's the bridge between resurrection and grief? The bridge is if Jesus was raised, Mom's doing fine right now. Marilyn: Yes. Gary Habermas: Or Philippians 1. I'd prefer to die and be with Christ. Oh, then Mom's okay. Yeah, mom's fine. And I'll be with her one day. Yep, that's the women in, with Lazarus in John 11. Yep. Wow. Okay. Well, I'm still sad. You can be sad. But now I know Mom's having a good time. Exactly. Marilyn: And you can- Gary Habermas: And that's a real lesson. Marilyn: That is. And then you can get through those details of life where you're left behind knowing God is with you. Gary Habermas: And some day ... I tell people ... I ended last night by saying, I don't know why she died. I didn't know then. Marilyn: That's a good point. Gary Habermas: But about the time she died, I think before she even died, I realized it wouldn't make a bit of difference if I know why she did. I think I'm better off not knowing, 'cause I'd wanna argue. Marilyn: Sure. Gary Habermas: That's me. Marilyn: Sure. Gary Habermas: So, I don't know, but that's not the important thing. Knowing why is silly. Knowing why doesn't change anything. She's still in heaven with the Lord. She's still happy. She's still okay. This is still God's universe. Remember the song, "This is My Father's World?" Marilyn: Yes. Gary Habermas: I love the verse, "And though the wrong seems off so strong, God is the ruler yet." So, I don't know why, but I can ask myself ... You talk about these little pithy truths again. I could ask myself, "Who died and left you the king of the universe?" Oh, yeah, that's funny. It's funny? Okay. Well then it teaches something, so quit doing it. Get yourself off the throne. And so sometimes those little, tiny- Marilyn: Reminders. Gary Habermas: And one place, and we're full of them, but it must be the same way in the early church, you know? We don't grieve with, as those without hope. Or put your mind on things above non-earthly things. Quit, stop thinking like this. Marilyn: Those are great thoughts, and we just really appreciate it so much. Gary Habermas: Oh, thanks. Marilyn: And your books are great. Thank you. Gary Habermas: Oh, well thank you very much, Marilyn, I have enjoyed it, enjoyed chatting with you. I hope it's in some small way applicable. You know what though? That old saying where when I point to you, the thumb comes back to me. I'm reminding myself the whole time. Marilyn: Yes. Thanks so much.

Bart Campolo thinks his kids are the best in the world. Well, not objectively speaking, right? Well, sort of! I mean, he really prefers his kids to your kids. But he hopes you do too. Is that right? Is that okay? And is there any problem with that sort of 'us-them' mentality?On this episode, Bart and Humanize Me producer John Wright attempt to answer a question from listener Daniel, who's concerned that in-group/out-group thinking could have a dark side:"A common critique I hear about religion is that it fosters an us-them mentality. Humanize Me, the episode with Charles Vogl in particular but in general also, says that 'us-thems' are not only fine but good. We should have 'us' groups, we just shouldn't mistreat our 'thems'. Where it gets sticky for me is, at what point does a preference for one group of people become mistreatment of another? And to me that begins when we say that not only do we prefer a certain group but it's right for us to prefer this group. When Bart talks about his instinct to treat his child better than another child, to me it sometimes sounds like he thinks that instinct is right, or justifiable. It's one thing to not feel guilty about it and acknowledge that it's perfectly natural, but it's another to think of it as right. So to me, when I cultivate loving relationships with people inside my group, goes to 'It is right for me to favor my people', it's only a matter of time for me to mistreat someone without realizing it was mistreatment. The other problem I see when embracing us-thems too unreservedly is that when you feel justified sticking to your 'us' group, you don't get challenged on your beliefs or values or ways of thinking and it becomes an echo chamber. So, my question for Bart is: Do you see any problems with creating communities with distinct definitions and fostering loyalties to those communities and, if so, at what point does this whole thing become negative or unhealthy? Thanks guys."If you're thinking it's a damn good question, well, that's what we thought too.—Got a question for Bart to answer in a future show? Call the ‘Q Line’ at (424) 291-2092.Enjoy the podcast? Support it at Patreon.com/HumanizeMe and get extra content for it! Please review us on iTunes (it really helps). And join 700 other listeners on the show’s Facebook Group.Humanize Me is hosted by Bart Campolo and is produced by JuxMedia.com.

In this episode: A parent writes that she’s struggling with her 5-year-old’s demands to play with her. This mom says that although she understands the theory of Janet’s parenting approach, she has difficulty putting it into practice in the moment, and she finds herself getting frustrated and being unkind. “She irritates me, and I feel absolutely terrible for admitting that!” For more advice on common parenting issues, please check out Janet's best-selling books on audio at Audible (https://adbl.co/2OBVztZ). Her exclusive audio series "Sessions" is also available for download. This is a collection of recorded one-on-one consultations with parents discussing their most immediate and pressing concerns (SessionsAudio.com).

In todays episode my special guests debate our biggest arguments to date. We argue about man crushes, movie choices, and hating DBZ?? Then we take a dive down the rabbit hole to see where it takes us.

In todays episode my special guests debate our biggest arguments to date. We argue about man crushes, movie choices, and hating DBZ?? Then we take a dive down the rabbit hole to see where it takes us.

Is it really okay to not be okay? What can we learn from song lyrics, and what happens when our heroes of the faith are as flawed as we are? The scriptures used in this episode are: Hebrews 12:2

  This week, I'm talking about changes both in my online and offline lives. I'm sharing: Some further thoughts on kids, screen time and Internet usage The future of my unschooling blog and podcast A few resources More about learning from life Some family news including the fur coat story   Show Notes   Blog Posts Is it Really Okay to Give Unschooling Kids Unlimited Access to Screens and the Internet Why This is the End of the Line for Me Why Becoming an Ex-Unschooling Blogger is a Bit Scary   Michael Mosley Resources The Truth About Sleep The Truth About Exercise Guts Infested Eat, Fast, and Live Longer   Imogen Elvis Youtube Facebook The Rains of Castamere music video   I apologise for the 'different' sound quality. I forgot to check the mic settings before I started recording and the podcast was recorded with my computer's internal mic instead of my USB one. I think the audio is clear, but maybe I sound like I'm in my bathroom!    My blog is Stories of an Unschooling Family. You might find me on Instagram at sue_elvis.  Thank you for listening to this episode. If you enjoy my podcast, please consider writing an iTunes review and sharing the link so we can spread the word about unschooling!    Podcast music: Twombly by Podington Bear, (CC BY-NC 3.0)  

A talent show? Really? Okay, we'll see how that goes.(Warning, it {Lharne} gets a little dark at the end of the episode.)Want to get in touch with us? Please do!We are...Twitter: @DraigCastEmail: DraigCast@rattleboxgames.comReddit: u/draigcastThank you for listening. You are the best.

A talent show? Really? Okay, we'll see how that goes. (Warning, it {Lharne} gets a little dark at the end of the episode.) Want to get in touch with us? Please do! We are... Twitter: @DraigCast Email: DraigCast@rattleboxgames.com Reddit: u/draigcast Thank you for listening. You are the best.

Click above to listen in iTunes... I realized a few years ago that I needed to stop asking people for permission to prove myself... What's going on, everyone? This is Steve Larsen, and you're listening to Sales Funnel Radio. Welcome to Sales Funnel Radio, where you'll learn marketing strategies to grow your online business using today's best internet sales funnels, and now here's your host, Steve Larsen. Hey, how's it going, everybody? Hey, I am really excited for today... First off, it is still freaking cold here. Oh, my gosh, it's so cold. I love motorcycles. I think some of you guys know that. I'm not a motorcycle connoisseur as far as like brand and all the little nitty-gritties of it. What I know is, I like to ride them, and I love to ride mine. Right? I've got a, it's a 2001 Kawasaki Vulcan. It's a cruiser. I wish it was a little bit more powerful. It's only 500cc, but anyway. It's still crazy fun, right? And the snow has been melting here, and the roads are clear, and so in the mornings, I have been riding my motorcycle, and what was funny is, I woke up this morning, and I rode it a little bit last week, and ... Anyway. It was fine, but this morning, I woke up, and I was like, "Oh, man, it's extra cold out. Oh, man, it's really cold out. Oh, my gosh," and since we moved new offices, we were only a mile and a half away at the other one, now I'm out four and a half miles away, which isn't that much difference, but it is when you're on a motorcycle and when it's that cold outside. And I started riding, and I was like, "Oh, my gosh, that is so cold," and I start driving, I start going, I start going, and now I have had a little bit of frostbite before in my life. I was a hardcore skier growing up. We'd go like 25 times in a single season. I started skiing when I was five years old. I don't think you guys know that. I don't think I've ever told you that before, and my dad was going to go be an Olympic skier, and I'll tell you guys more about that stuff later, but ... So we skied like crazy growing up, right? And my hands and my face and my feet are used to that kind of cold abuse. Right? And I was riding along, and I'm not going to lie, but about a mile in, I was like, "My hands are going to freaking fall off. This is ridiculous. I cannot feel anything anymore." I was like, and it starts to get dangerous, you know what I mean? Because your right hand controls the brake. Your left hand controls the clutch. You know what I mean?... Left foot is the gears, right foot, you got the back break. Right? I mean, riding a motorcycle's an involved process, you can't just sit there. And so I was like, "If I can't freaking feel the grip, this is going to be a scary experience," and it was about a mile and a half in, and my face mask starts fogging up. I wear a full mask helmet, especially when it's this cold. I mean, my face would be falling off otherwise in ... That's what it was like when I was a skier, a hardcore skier, but ... Anyway, I get to the office here, and I cannot feel my hands at all, and if you guys have ever had that experience before, I don't just mean like numb, but it's where you got the actual cells in your skin, in your fingers, they start to freeze, and it's a very painful experience, until your hands go numb. They go numb, but then you can tell they're getting extra stiff and hard. You can't really move them, and it starts to freeze, literally, and it's a painful thing to have happened, but it's like 12 times more painful to have them thaw. Oh, my gosh. So I got here to the office and I was like, "Hey, I'm going to record a podcast. I want to jump out to you guys real quick," but I had to wait for like 15 minutes just pacing around the office quickly, because my hands are just throbbing as they start to thaw. It's a ... Anyways, it's an awful experience, and I was like, "Hey, Siri ... " Let me see if ... Hopefully it doesn't turn on. Okay. And I was like, "Hey, Siri," hopefully Siri doesn't hear me, I was like, "What's the temperature?" And it was like, brr, 24 degrees. I was like, "Oh, my gosh, I didn't know it was 24 degrees outside," and I was wearing gloves, but they're these paper-thin little things, so like, oh, gosh, okay. I'm not going to do that again. Anyway... Hey, super excited for today. We are still about ... Gosh. I'm so excited. We're still about a few days away from Funnel Hacking Live, and I just wanted to recap real quick what happened last time. That was a life-changing experience for me. At the time, I was about to ... So this is last February. I was still in college, but I only had a week left of school, and I was getting straight As, and I was ... I mean, I was a ... For the most part, I was a straight A student. I graduated with a 3.85 GPA, and ... Which is kind of a rare thing, but I feel like, because most people are straight A students, I feel like they're really, they're kind of tightwads, and they don't know how to sell stuff, and they're ... I just get really into all the subjects. If something interests me, I'll go learn it and try and get good at it... But anyway, so I was nervous because Funnel Hacking Live was basically during finals week, and I was excited to get there, though. All I knew is, I had to get there. I couldn't explain it, I didn't know why other than it was my tribe. You know what I mean? I knew my tribe was meeting. I knew they were getting together, and I knew there were things that were going to happen there that were going to get taught that would not be taught otherwise. It would be hard for me to learn the things that I was going to learn there outside of the event. You know what I mean? That's why it's so exciting to go. That's why it's so important to go, and I didn't have any money, though. I knew that Russell's going to be opening the cart. This is like, rewinding even more, the last time it was in March, so in like January, he was like, "Okay, I'm going to open up the ... " I think that was in, he's like, "I'm going to sell some tickets and get this thing going," and I was like, "Crap, I got no money." I was a poor college student. I was in the army, I was in ... I mean, there was a lot of stuff going on, my wife. I was trying to just keep up with school, we had two babies. We had, there's so much stuff going on, and that's kind of cool to have met a lot of you guys since starting this podcast. A lot of you guys were in the exact same situation, or are still now. It's kind of cool to bond over that, for sure, but ... And I was like, "Cool, I'm going to go find some guy that I can build funnels for who will, instead of paying me, he will just pay for me to go to the event," and this, it sounds cool, but it was like, man, the execution of that was rough, and so I went in ... Some of you guys are making a mistake when you go build funnels for people, you're trying to prove yourself. You're trying to ask for permission too much. I've done a lot of coaching sessions with you guys recently, and one of the things I've noticed in there is like, "Hey," I'm like, "Hey, now go build for somebody for free. Go prove yourself," and it's like some of you are asking permission to prove yourself. You'll go out and you'll say, "Hey, can I build you a funnel? Hey, can I build you a funnel? Hey, can I build you a funnel?" Right? And that question needs to happen eventually, but the time that it happens does not need to happen first, so what I did is, I went out and I found this guy, and I was like, "Hey, look. What I did at first is, I found a business that it was already succeeding, which makes it ridiculously easy to be successful with a funnel with. ...Hint, hint, hint. Massive gold drop, right there." Right? Go find a business that is already being successful, that, especially if it's eCommerce, it's going to be really, really easy. If they have their own list, that's huge. If they have a social media following, absolutely massive, those are like the big pieces, man. If you got to find a company that's like that and you're trying to prove yourself as a funnel builder, that is one of the magic formulas. It cannot be a new company... Okay? It's very, very difficult to do that with a new company, and you guys know that's kind of my policy. I don't do funnel building with new companies anymore. I tried that for probably two years. Half of that was when ClickFunnels existed. The other half, when it wasn't, and I was using it with WordPress, and it sucked, but okay, so I went out, and I found this company, right? And some of you guys are going at me saying, "Will you let me? Will you let me?" What I did, though, is I said, "Hey, I have an idea. I know you ... I build these things called sales funnels on the internet, and it's kind of a technobabble term. Most people have no idea what it is, which is totally fine. Anyway, your business fits perfectly in this scenario," and he's like, "Really? Okay. Oh, that's interesting." I was like, "I don't expect you to know what this is. I will pay for all the software. I will put everything together for you. I want to build you a sales funnel online... Actually, I'm going to do it for completely free, and I know that sounds crazy, but it's honestly so that I can show you that I know what I'm talking about, and that they work," and he was like, "Okay." And is a company, they sold water ionizers, and they had a whole bunch of monthly products, and they had a whole bunch of ... It was a really fascinating company, actually. Actually, it's still the water we drink here in the office now, with Russell, because I showed it to him, and he's like, "That's cool." Similar to the Kangen Water thing, but they actually work. Oh, man. Anyway. So I went out and I was like, "Hey, we're going to build you this sales funnel," right? And I went out and I built it, and I ran ask campaigns, just like you guys have seen me doing recently, which I should probably give you an update of that at some point, but I was running ask campaigns, and I was gathering all this research, and I was learning about his competitors, and I was all over the place. I was doing, I was funnel hacking, right? I was learning his competitors' businesses better than his competitors knew their businesses, right? It's kind of what you have to do with funnel hacking. It's not about just screenshotting pages. You got to, man, figure out what their margins are. I mean, figure out what the costs are. Where are they getting the ... Who's the suppliers? You have got to know their business as well as the business owner when you funnel hack someone hardcore, if you're actually going for it. Do not do a shallow funnel hack. Right? And be open about it... Don't be sold on those are the people that you're going to go out and build, that's the funnel you're going to go out and build. That was the challenge, is that I was going through saying, "Okay, are these guys actually making money? Are these guys actually succeeding in the marketplace?" Right? And I was going through, and I remember, I would get up crazy early, and I would ... Just like I do now, and I would go, and I'd hide in different places on campus where there was sweet internet, when the buildings were all closed, because I needed to funnel hack. I needed to build, I needed to get this funnel out, right? I wanted to go to Russell's event, and I had to figure out a way to get there, so I freaking hustled. And I went out and I ended up building this funnel for him, and it was a tripwire funnel. I was like, "Hey, let me walk you through it," right? And I just made all these screenshot videos of it, or I'd get on Skype with him and I'd walk him through it, and as I started showing him this stuff, he's like, "Oh, my gosh. I didn't realize this is the kind of stuff you're talking about." I was like, "Yeah, this is what we mean by sales funnels in this industry," and he's like, "Would you take over all of my social media?" And I was like, "Crap, okay. Yeah." He's like, "I'll start paying you for that. Let's see what this funnel thing is first," and as I'm taking over social media, and I'm starting to do posts and all this stuff, he goes, "Would you take over all of the server and tech stuff?" And I was like, "Sure," and I knew I had to do a lot of that stuff, just because I was ... I mean, my dad was an executive at IBM. We built our own like 115-port network inside of our house. Totally geeky, but, I mean, it's fun, and so I knew some of that stuff. He's like, "Would you take over this? Would you take over this?" Pretty soon, anything that had to do with a circuit I was in charge of, right? And so by the time I launched the funnel, I went out and I was like, "Hey, here's the funnel. This is going to be an awesome funnel. Let me show you... It works like this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and the easiest way for this to make money is for you to send an email, a series of emails, out to your internal list," and he was like, "Okay." I was like, "So here's the email. Let's send it out, boom. Let's send it," and so we sent it. Right? And within the first day, it made 20 grand, and in, over the next three ... Because people open their email at varying times. Over the next week or two, or a little bit of time, overall it made I think almost 60 grand, and he was like, "Oh, my gosh," and it was all through my system. It was all through the thing that I built, and I was blown away and was changing my mindset, just I was reframing my brain. I was like, "This is insane. I've never done this before, and I'm proving myself, and I'm ... " He didn't know that I hadn't done all that stuff. He didn't know that ... Anyway, all I was trying to do is prove myself, right? That's how you do a hardcore funnel act. That's how you actually prove yourself for the marketplace, and there's been people that have been coaching with you, like I said, I mean, you guys, you're doing a great job just getting more hardcore on it. Don't ask permission. Just go build it. Right? And that's what I was telling these guys, also, when I built for them, was like, "Look, I know you don't know what it is. I'm just going to build it. If it works, awesome. If not, you'll never hear from me again," and he was like, "Okay." That's an easy proposition as a business owner. Some kid's going to work for me for free, if it works and makes money, then I'll start paying you, and if not, no harm, no foul? It's like, "What?" I ended up rebuilding his entire website into ClickFunnels, building out tons of funnels that hooked from his main website, and, I mean, it was a cool experience. I left right before we were about to launch a webinar, and that's when I got hired by Russell, and ... Man, that webinar was going to crush it. Oh, I'm so sad they didn't launch it, but you're the only one that's passionate about it, and your value proposition goes through the roof, right? So after he started making money, I was like, "Hey, look, there's ... Honestly, as far as payment, it was good for me just to prove myself to you and to myself and to the industry that I know what I'm doing on this stuff, so as a payment, I would love it if you would just pay for my hotel. Just pay for my ticket, pay for my flight," and he's like, "Okay, and so you brought in 60 grand. I can cough up a little bit of that. It's hardly anything, comparatively." And I went, and I went to Russell's event, and I totally miscalculated the days, and so ... The first night, I got my own hotel room. It was this total dump. I mean, it was like a 50-dollar-a-night hotel, and I couldn't get a car, so I was renting bikes on the other side of San Diego, and I would bike, I don't even know how many miles, but I biked a long way, all the way into the event, and so I was kind of sweaty, but I just knew I had to be there. I knew I had to be there, and I remember I ... There was a very surreal feeling, you know like those moments where you just, you are where you are supposed to be, you know? You walk in, you're like, "My gosh, this is it." Like, "I'm, this is ... I don't even know why, but this is it," and I walk on and into the event, and it was the day before ... The day before the event, it was registration, and I walked in, I was like, "Hey, here's my ticket," and they're like, "Awesome." They gave me my name tag, and it was like, "Oh. Wow." And some of you guys might laugh at that, but that's what, it was a huge deal to me. I knew my life would be changed by being there. I did not know why, I could not explain it ... And I walked in, and I was like, "Hey," I got my badge, and they hand over this bag with all this stuff in it, and I was like, "Whoa." I mean, it was like holding gold, I was like, "Holy crap. Wow," and I had biked several miles to get there, and I was biking around the bay, and I was like ... Anyway, it was a really interesting night, and I remember, after they gave me my bag and they gave me this badge and all the stuff, I turn around and there's all these support guys sitting at this table if you had any questions, and I walk up, and I think some of you guys heard the story, and it was actually Mark Bangerter. I'll tell him that I mentioned him, he sits on the other side of the window from me over there. He's like, "Hey, who are ... " Oh, and he looked at my name tag and he goes, "Wait a second, are you that guy who's pulling off all that Star Wars ninja crap on our software?" And I was like, "I don't know." And he goes, he's like, "Where do you work now?" I was like, "I graduated on Friday," and he's like, "Are you kidding me?" I was like, "No." He goes, "Get this kid an application." He's like, "What have you been doing?" I was like, "Well, lately, I've been building up a CRM with Infusionsoft that integrates with ClickFunnels back and forth," and he was like, "Oh, my gosh. You know Infusionsoft?" And I was like, "I've set up," and that's where, the company that I built a funnel for, that's where it had turned into. They wanted me to build up the CRM, despite me telling him how much they did not need it and how much of a waste of money it was, and how much it did not work, and how hard it was for it to do everything, they still wanted me to use Infusionsoft and go and integrate ClickFunnels with Infusionsoft, so I ended up doing it. And so anyways, Mark was like, "Holy crap, you know this? Man, get this kid an application," and I got asked to apply to ClickFunnels four more times throughout the event. Four more, and the peak of it all was when Russell gave the speech for certification, and he stood up and I knew I wanted to be certified. Again, part of that whole, I don't, mystical crap, whatever, but I knew I needed to be certified, and Russell stands up and he goes, "Okay, we got this thing called certification. Here at the event, it's eight grand. Besides here, it's going to be ten, and basically, by the end, you're going to be making a butt-ton of money," and I was like, "Cool." I already love ClickFunnels, I already know I'm pretty good at it, I already ... Part of it was my background in layout and design in high school. I was a head editor for yearbook, I designed all the editors in InDesign with Adobe, and ... Anyway, I'm kind of rambling now, but all I'm saying, guys, is this event is a big deal, and for those of you guys who are going to make it, I'm really excited for you to be there, and this isn't like a, I'm not trying to ... There's no affiliate link here. There's no ... I'm just really freaking excited. This event changed my life, and this is one of my ... I look more forward to this event than I do, like, Christmas or my birthday, all right? People's lives change here... Now, for those of you guys that are coming, my dad's going to be there. He's, we're building out his product for the financial ... It's called financialinvestingsecrets.com. He's got a futures trading product... I think I was just telling you about that, but anyway, all I'm trying to say is, I'm super stoked that you guys are going to be there, and when you come, already have ... For those of you guys who are just starting out, already have funnel hacked somebody, all right? That's the ... I'm trying to think of the easiest ways you guys can get the most out of it when you're there. Anyway, guys, it's going to be a great experience, and I'm excited to see you guys when you're there. This ... You know what, I'll just bring it full circle here, all right? So when I was at the event, I heard Russell give certification, and I was like, "I got to figure how to ... I do not have eight grand. I barely made it here as it is. Somehow, I don't even know how, but I'm going to make it work." Right? And I ... Some of you guys know I'm religious. I went back to my hotel room and I said a prayer and I was like, "Heavenly Father, God, I've got to get to certification. It's the next step for me. It's what I'm good at. It's what I do for Russell, I'm his funnel builder. It's what I'm good at. I've got to figure this out." And he didn't know who I was yet, and he had no idea who I was, and I walked back into the room and I kind of had this feeling like it's all going to be okay, and I walked in there and I started talking to some of the other certified partners, and I was like, "I got to make this work," right? And I started talking to Nora, who's a ClickFunnels employee, and I was like, "I got to make this work," and she's like, "I feel like you got to make this work," and I was like, "I'm trying to make it work," and the Hackathon started shortly thereafter. And I went downstairs, and there was a whole bunch of people, all of their computers set up, a huge noise going over, the smell of pepperoni pizza all over the place, people are staying up crazy late funnel building, and there was a guy there, a ClickFunnels employee who was, I won't name him now, but he was sitting there and he was building something, I saw what he was building, and I was like, "I can build that faster." And I pulled up my computer right next to him and I was like, "I'm going to beat him," and I just started hauling and all these people started watching what I was doing and I was beating him on this funnel hack using the editor, and I was, I mean ... Anyway, I'm very competitive, and I eventually met this lady whose name's Nora. She was in charge of the certification program, right? And she was like, "Oh, I'm super impressed with you. Oh, my gosh, you got to ... You've done that and that and that with our software? Oh, my gosh, that's crazy. You're in college? Oh, my gosh, I need you." And she's like, "Let me introduce you to Brent," and I go and I get introduced to Brent and Brent's like, "Cool, why don't you get ... Why don't you go apply? That'd be awesome," "Sounds good," and I was like, "Okay, sounds good. I'm literally going to go be the CMO of this other company they're building funnels for and on Friday, four days from now," and he was like, "Holy crap. You're graduating that fast." He's like, "Please apply." And the last night, I stayed up the entire night, the event was over, right, and I remember just, I needed to just act, I needed to act, and I was definitely the last person at the event. I was definitely the last person to leave the hotel, and my flight didn't leave till the next day, and I stayed up the whole night making this video explaining to them why they should hire me. I don't think a lot ... That's probably the part of the story that you have not heard. Russell's told the story before and he's like, "Hey, he stayed up the whole night because he didn't have a hotel room." Well, there was a hotel room that I got, and it was a junky piece of crap one, because I didn't have enough money for another one. I could've stayed there, but I ended up just staying in the hotel where there was good WI-Fi, and I worked my butt off, and I funnel hacked, and I built a brand, and it's actually where the basis of salesfunnelbroker.com came from, that night, right? And I created this huge, amazing video. It was only about, they only wanted a seven-minute one, so I was like, "Okay, cool," so when I made it, this awesome seven-minute video, and I'll put that video in the show notes as well. Ooh, that'd be kind of cool. All right, I'll put the video in the show notes. And I went back to college, right, and I sent the application in, right, the night before I left San Diego, and on Tuesday, right, I came back on Sunday. On Tuesday, I got a call from Brent, and he's like, "Hey, man, just saw your application. Crazy impressive. I loved it if you came down for an interview," and I was like, "Cool, I'm in the middle of finals, but what if I drove over there?" And he was like, "Okay," so I drove from, it was about four and a half, no, it was about, yeah, about five-hour drive, and luckily I'd been doing so well in my classes I kind of just left, and I went and I stayed the night somewhere and then drove into ClickFunnels headquarters the next morning, and I walk in there and Brent's like, "Hey, how you doing, man? Looking sharp. Thanks for dressing up," and we chatted for a while, and he's like, "Hey, would you go sit and just wait for a little while?" He and I talked for a while, he was like, "Would you go away for a while and Russell will come in, you'll get to meet him," and I freaked out. I was like, "I get to meet Russell Brunson? Oh, my gosh," and I started freaking out. And I went, and I started sitting in another room. I was just trying to make conversation with another guy, because I was freaking, I could not believe that I was about to meet the man who had already changed my life, and such incredible respect for him and what he's doing. Most entrepreneurs get pretty cocky... Most entrepreneurs get pretty all about the money, and, no joke, I mean, he, the guy wants to make a lot of money, it has nothing to do with not wanting to, and he makes an absolute insane amount of money, but he is more about helping people, and I'm all about that, so it was really kind of cool synergy there. But anyways, he walked in, and we met, and we had an hour and a half conversation. We talked for an hour and a half face-to-face. It was so crazy cool, and at the end of it, before I left, he sent a message to Brent, and he's like, "I want that kid. Do whatever you need to take, do whatever you need to be able to get him." And I was like, "It's Wednesday. I'm supposed to leave on Friday for Florida," and he's like, "Well, what are you going to do?" I was like, "Well, if you offer me a job, I'm coming here. I'm not going to Florida, I'm going to stay here, and I'm going to go ... " Oh, man. Anyway, anyway ... All right, guys, that was a long episode. I just wanted to tell you guys how stoked I am for click, for funnels, for... ... Anyway, this is a long episode, and I want you guys, when you who are, those of you who are coming, I want you to come and know that this is something, expect that it will change your life. Expect it, right?... I do, I did, it did, it has, and I'm really excited to meet you guys. Definitely say hi to my dad when you guys are there. I'm just, he's just getting introduced to this world, I'm just introducing him to people, so that'd be awesome too, but ... Anyway, long podcast there, but, anyway, hope you guys enjoyed it. Super stoked. If you want to turn those intro things into your own alarm clock, go for it. That's me getting stoked every time, every morning to do stuff with Russell, but ... Anyways, guys, I will talk with you later, and, yeah, I'll talk ... All right, well, see you guys. Bye.   Thanks for listening to Sales Funnel Radio. Please remember to subscribe and leave feedback. Want to get one of today's best internet sales funnel for free? Go to salesfunnelbroker.com/freefunnels to download your prebuilt sales funnel today.

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