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Latest podcast episodes about Totally

CrabDiving Radio Podcast
CrabDiving – Wed 120121 – The Conservative Theofascists of SCOTUS Are Totally Team Gilead

CrabDiving Radio Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 2, 2021 115:23


The conservative theofascists of SCOTUS are totally team Gilead. Spreader Justice Amy Coney Barrett blathered mouth-garbage about abortion and adoption. The Omicron variant officially landed in the states. Idiotic red states have paid unemployment benefits to anti-vaxxers who lose their jobs for refusing to get the jab. Voting rights advocates Stacey Abrams said she's running for Governor in Georgia. An Iowa Trumpist asked former VP Pence the name of the person who told him to buck Trump and certify the 2020 election results. Mother's Husband then handed dude his lunch. In and Out Burger has refused to enforce Los Angeles' indoor dining vaccination requirements. Countries serious about ending the pandemic have been slapping the unvaccinated with fines each month they refuse the shot. A televangelist from a huge Christian TV network who pushed COVID disinformation and died said a vaccine mandate would be a sin against god. People with allergies have been shown to be more resilient against coronavirus. A conservative crackpot said Fauci was a "Nazi doctor."  

Best of the Web: the MetaFilter Podcast
179: Calendrical Is Totally A Word

Best of the Web: the MetaFilter Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 30, 2021 186:22


In our triumphant return to posting podcasts at the turn of the month, Jess and I talk about time management and reminders, complicated conversational dynamics, the assassination of JFK (but only very briefly), and a bunch of somewhat more MetaFilter-centric things. We time-managed our way up to about 93 minutes. Also I play a euphonium.Helpful LinksPodcast FeedSubscribe with iTunesDirect mp3 downloadMisc - talkin' about fake cash which led to an old MeFi post - Chicken in the Corn - hey it's cranberry jelly - twitter discussion about trauma dumping - CALENDRICAL - jessamyn did some filing Jobs - Greasemonkey (or other) script to enable downloads by jessamyn - Shop at arch salvage store in Portland, OR for me by arnicae - Full Stack Developer by jchan Projects - Skittish, a playful space for online events by waxpancake - The Fucking Bible (warning: 7.5 MB) by ignignokt - The Stick Princess by Peach - I finally got my Murder Ballads book back into print! by Paul Slade - Princess Unlimited by yankeefog - "How to Sous Vide," a helpful cookbook by veggieboy - Formula Non (2009 - 2019) An Alternative F1 Photo Project by lawrencium MetaFilter - "The real Pacific Princess had a crew of 373, rather than 6" by jessamyn - a comment by cortex - a fluegelhorn is probably not a fluegelhorn, and vice versa by cortex - Film shows McD's trained new staff in proper use of Vulcan death pinch by not_on_display - Islands in the Stream by dorothy hawk - Divorced, beheaded, live! by Lorc - at the world you've left / and the things you know by fight or flight - Why so many people undercharge for their work by Bella Donna - Those who exist, have existed, or will exist in the vicinity of Omelas by brainwane - "the distance between reader and character or narrator" by brainwane Ask MeFi - a comment by brainwane - Where did the "Rock and Roll Ending" come from? by bondcliff - Why would I use a hot glue gun instead of just glue? by trevor_case - Tennis Pro decoded opponent's body language and serve? by umber vowel - How do you manage your time? by unicorn chaser - Then we'll take it higher - pop songs that are actually protest songs by Frowner - Waltham, MA ca. 1988 - 1990: Manufacturer of Geiger-Mueller Detectors? by ZenMasterThis - Seeking reputable carbon offset programs by Osrinith - Fun classic rock songs (Grateful Dead & more) to walk down the aisle to by Neely O'Hara - logistics! by everybody had matching towels MetaTalk - How MeFi (and other providers) deal with trust & safety issues by brainwane - Obit post: Speedlime by Pallas Athena - Newsletter 3: The Handovering by Eyebrows McGee - MetaFilter Gift Swap 2021 THANK YOU! by mochapickle - Mefi Art & Makers Group, Update by Glinn

Colleen & Bradley
11/30 Tues hr 2: D-BAG DOUBLE DOWN: It's us because we totally forgot to play The Thanksgiving Song!

Colleen & Bradley

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 30, 2021 36:43


PLUS: What are your sleep rules? COBRA GANG: BRITNEY: A tale of two Instagram posts AND D-BAGS: Bill Cosby and Will Smith

SuperFeast Podcast
#144 Sexual Activation and Feminine Embodiment with Eva Williams

SuperFeast Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 30, 2021 76:53


Eva Williams is the founder of Golden Lotus; A divine online portal of meditations, movement practices, and sexual/spiritual energy education designed to cultivate spiritual awakening, sexual activation, and embodied sovereignty. This episode explores rebirth and the unfolding of the sacred feminine through preparation and activation rituals, with a deep dive into birth and pregnancy. Tahnee and Eva journey into the numinous layers of Eva's healing work, her Golden Lotus portal, her focus on cultivating and purifying the body through ancient techniques, sexual embodiment, self-pleasure practices, and the many dimensions of birth work. A healer and teacher with over a decade of experience in bodywork, energy work, and feminine sexual cultivation techniques, Eva carries a depth of knowledge that women need now more than ever. Currently, the way most women in society birth is within the structure of an over-medicalised patriarchal system. Sacred feminine lineages of natural birthing wisdom have been at large, replaced with time constraints, interventions, inductions, and regulations; The antithesis of a naturally unfolding feminine space. How did we end up here? With so much of her work focused on this space and where sexual embodiment falls into birth, Eva discusses the importance of birth preparation; From detoxing, orgasms, and opening the pelvis to the deep work of trusting the body and baby to do what they instinctively know how to do. This conversation is a deep weaving of energetic, sexual, and birth culture healing; For all women, past, present, and future.   "Many people come into tantra with a concept of a partner base in mind. But the way I was trained, particularly with my teachers in this more Sufi tradition, I never went into any of this work looking for my sexuality. I never thought I would only work with women; I never thought I would be working with birth. That was not my aim; My aim was to heal people. I worked on everyone. Ultimately, I wanted to find God. I wanted a very deep spiritual experience or a series of those. And over time, that guided me in that direction.  But there was a level of care and sobriety cultivated within me before I was put on that path. And this level of deep devotion and sobriety to my self-development was paramount".   - Eva Williams     Tahnee and Eva discuss: Doula work. Ultrasounds. Inducing labour. Foetal monitoring. Dolphin midwives. Birth preparation. Empowered birth. Tantric practices. Devine Female Orgasm. Self-pleasure practices. Feminine embodiment. Female sexuality and birth. The pelvis is a fluid body. Somatics and embodiment. Time constraints placed on pregnancy and birthing.   Who is Eva Louise Williams? Eva Louise Williams is a healer and teacher with over a decade of experience in bodywork, energy work, and feminine sexual cultivation techniques. She began her journey at 18 learning reiki and pranic healing, before becoming initiated into Kriya yoga (the lineage of Babaji) at 20, then went on to study Shiatsu, Japanese Acupuncture, and Taoist sexual cultivation techniques. She began teaching others at 26 and received the transmission for Golden Lotus at the age of 29. She currently has over 10,000 hours of experience as a bodyworker and teacher. Eva is also a doula, a birth educator, and an RYT 500 in tantric Hatha and kundalini lineages. Golden Lotus was founded to both serve and lead female seekers towards awakening and remembering Self-love & trust. It is a series of teachings that cultivate spiritual and sovereign embodiment; the focus lies in stabilising, purifying, and awakening through ancient techniques and spiritual secrets taught through a state of ritual and Holy full-body Prayer.     CLICK HERE TO LISTEN ON APPLE PODCAST    Resources: goldenlotus.com Golden Lotus Instagram   Q: How Can I Support The SuperFeast Podcast? A: Tell all your friends and family and share online! We'd also love it if you could subscribe and review this podcast on iTunes. Or  check us out on Stitcher, CastBox, iHeart RADIO:)! Plus  we're on Spotify!   Check Out The Transcript Here:   Tahnee: (00:00) Hi everybody, and welcome to the SuperFeast Podcast. Today, I'm joined by Eva Williams. I'm really excited to have her here. I've been following her work online and she's really aligned with what we do at SuperFeast. She's an explorer of this wide world of Daoist medicine through the Japanese lineage, but also, she waves in, from what I can tell, you seem to bring in all these beautiful, different traditions, Sufism, Kriya yoga, different types of feminine embodiment, Pranic healing, that kind of stuff. So I'm really excited to have you here today. I'm really excited to share with our community your work.   Tahnee: (00:37) And if you guys are interested, we'll talk about it through the podcast, but Eva has a whole lot of resources on her website, courses you can do related to different aspects of a lot of the stuff we teach at SuperFeast. So thank you for joining us here today, Eva, it's such a pleasure to have you here.   Eva Williams: (00:53) My pleasure. Thank you so much.   Tahnee: (00:57) Yeah, I'm so excited. I think I first came across you on Instagram and I've had a look through what you offer. I know you haven't studied with Mantak, but it really seems aligned with a lot of the work that I learned through studying with him, the feminine work around energy cultivation. Obviously, you've studied Shiatsu and Japanese acupuncture. So you speak to the meridians and all those kinds of things. Would you mind telling us a bit about your journey here? How did you get to be offering Golden Lotus to the world?   Eva Williams: (01:30) Yeah, sure. All right. My journey's been quite interesting in terms of length because my mom is really into alternative medicine. I remember when I was six years old and I just had this incredibly bad tonsillitis, it was to the point where I was being taken out of school for days and days every week. And my mom noticed that I responded really, really well to the osteopath that she would take us to because she used to take us all three to the osteopath regularly. And so the osteopath said, "Look, this kid is responsive as hell. You should just take her to a cranial osteopath because that will help."   Eva Williams: (02:12) So I started going to this professional cranial osteopath when I was six, and it was the only thing that assisted, it was the only thing my body would really respond to. So really, from an early age, my mom knew that, particularly me, I think my brother and sister definitely as well, but particularly me, if anything would happen, like when I was 13 and I had anxiety, my mom was like, "Oh, we could put her on anti-anxiety or we could do reflexology with Bach flower remedies." And also, I had psoriasis, I had developed psoriasis when I was 13. And psoriasis, for those of you who don't know, is a skin issue, and it's one of these just really stubborn, autoimmune things.   Eva Williams: (02:55) Anything that's autoimmune is basically, no offence to all of the fantastic doctors and the medical community, but anything that's autoimmune is basically in the realm of, "We don't really know what the fuck is happening, so here's some steroids. That's where we're at." And so I started trying out these different things and some of them are called like bowel neurotherapies, which are where you'd have a salt bath and then UV light therapy or something like that. And there's not a lot of sun in the Netherlands where I was living at the time. So I started getting into this world where every time I'd be going to this clinic, I'd be checking out the cards on the notice board.   Eva Williams: (03:34) And there'd always be like random things like Karma healing or like emotional Chakra clearing. And one day I found this card and I was like, "This is so good." I walked around with this card for like a week or two, and then I called the person. And I remember, as soon as I called her, she was like, "Yeah, how can I help you?" I'm like, "Look, I don't really know what you do. Do you speak English? I don't really know what you do, but I feel really like this is something that I need to try." And she was like, "Hmm, no, you need Dini." I was like, "I'm sorry, have we even met? I'm trying to book an appointment with you."   Eva Williams: (04:04) And she was like, "No, you need Dini." I was like, "Oh, okay. I need Dini." And then this woman was this like 75-year-old woman who looked so young. And she was like, "How old do you think I am?" I'm like, "We've been through this before." She was just amazing. And she barely spoke any English. And I remember I was 15 when I first went to see her, and she did Meridian massage. She did Meridian clearing and healing. She was just a healer, so she would tell me a bunch of different things, and then she would do this work on me. She would tell me things that I look back on now, I'm like, "Dude, she was so on point."   Eva Williams: (04:44) But at the time, I was like, "What the fuck is she talking about?" She's like, "You're taking on a lot from your father." I'm like, "Okay."   Tahnee: (04:51) What does that mean?   Eva Williams: (04:51) Exactly. And now, I'm like, "I'm that person." But it was quite a unique experience. And I remember when she first read my astrology chart, she just looked at me. And it was very Dutch. The Dutch are very dry, they don't beat around the bush, they're very pragmatic and straightforward. And she was like, "Wow, that's not good." I was like, "Why are you doing this to me?" So she started saying to me really early on when I was 15, 16, I didn't like high school, so I left high school when I was 15 to teach myself. She started saying to me really regularly, "You have to promise me that you will do this work." She's like, "Do you think what I do is amazing?" I'm like, "I think it's pretty out there."   Eva Williams: (05:36) And she's like, "Okay, but what you are going to do is this, but much, much more." And she's like, "You have to promise me." And my mom taught me from when I was really young that a promise is a really strong word and you don't use it if you can't keep it. So I was like, "Far out, man, this is my life ahead of me and you want me to..., " But she sent me to some other people, liquid crystal healers and all sorts of things, so I was getting into some really bizarro stuff. And I wasn't telling my parents that much about this because it no longer had this homoeopathic application anymore. Now, it was just like, "Fuck it, I'm going to go on a journey and meet the [inaudible 00:06:07]. See you later."   Eva Williams: (06:08) I was getting into some really out-there stuff at like 16, 17, but it was, it was really amazing. So I followed that thread and I taught myself, I homeschooled myself. And I got into a really great university. And so I went to university, everyone told me people are more free thinking in university, etc, etc. And I thought, "Okay, great." But actually I didn't find that, I actually found that the institutionalised information had just become denser. I didn't find that people were more free thinking, I found that there were more presumptions. And especially for someone who didn't go through the IB or the international baccalaureate programme, it was really difficult for me.   Eva Williams: (06:51) I had some really awakening moments, just some really jarring stuff happened where I was like, "I don't think I really belong here." And my dad moved to India that year, and so my brother and sister and I all went to see him in India. My dad's a geologist, so all around the house, ever since we were little, we'd had tumbled rocks, amethyst, turquoise, this or that. So he was always teaching us about all these crystals. So when my brother and I got to India, we saw the tumbled rocks, these beautiful amethyst, and we both took one. We were like, "Let's go to the Himalayas."   Eva Williams: (07:28) He's like, "Yeah, let's learn yoga from a really old yogi." I was like, "Yeah, let's go do that." So and I was like, "Dad, I'm taking this rock with me." He's like, "If you take that, you're bringing it back. That's my rock." So I took this amethyst in my pocket and I went into the Himalayas. And I met a woman and she... I wanted to study Reiki, that was my thing. She just looked at me and she was like, "Hey, look, I'm going to give you these codes for all the different levels of Reiki, and then I need you to come back and I want you to teach my level two students." I'm like, "Lady, I just walked in here. I don't know what Reiki is yet."   Tahnee: (08:01) I've got to learn.   Eva Williams: (08:06) "I've got a nab at this, I had a dream on the bus. There's a lot going on right now. I don't think I'm ready to teach people something I haven't learned." But what she was picking up on was that I could touch people and feel what they were experiencing. So I came back the next day, and I was just putting my hands on people and I just explained what I could see or feel. And she's like, "You need to promise me ... " I was like, "You know what, I've heard all of this before, my friend. I have heard all of this before." So I went back to the Netherlands to university, and I was doing my 30 days. You have to do this self Reiki thing after you do Reiki.   Eva Williams: (08:45) And during that period of time, I was like, "I'm not meant to be an architect, I'm not meant to be doing what I'm doing. And so I need to go." And so I gave away everything I owned and I said to my dad, "I'm free again." And he's like, "Yeah, great. You left high school twice and now you're leaving an international honours university. This is a great run you're having over here. I hope you put my amethyst back."   Tahnee: (09:07) Yeah. So proud.   Eva Williams: (09:10) He's like, "You'll face... " I'm joking. And he was like, "Okay, look, you've always been who you are, no one's stopping that. But what are you going to do? You should have a bit of a plan." And I was like, "Yeah, well, what do I have to my name?" He's laughing. He's like, "What do you have to your name? You're a broke student. You have nothing but a ticket home to New Zealand that I will give you until you're 22." So I was like, "All right, great. I'll take it." So I went to New Zealand for three weeks and I went for a Reiki session. And this woman, she did that same thing, she's like, "You don't need me, you need Barbara and you need Jan."   Eva Williams: (09:43) And I'm like, "Okay, send me the names." So I started exploring all these different modalities of incredible light work, just incredible, incredible things while I was there. I go down to the ocean and dolphins would come and visit me, and then I'd go see the healers, and they're like, "You called those dolphins." I'm like, "Okay. All right. Let's calm down." But now I'm like, "We all call the dolphins." Now, I'm like, "Of course, I called the dolphins."   Tahnee: (10:07) They're our people.   Eva Williams: (10:08) My allies. They came to me in my hour of need. It was just a beautiful time. And then one day, in my heart, I just heard... I was waiting for that moment where you hear it from within, because I have a very active mind, so I can make up whatever I want to hear. But I heard Melbourne from my heart. And I was like, "Okay, that's where it's going to be." So I called my parents, I'm like, "I'm going to Melbourne." They were like, "Oh, thank God, she's got a plan." And I went there and I thought I was going to stay doing something graphic design or something design oriented, because that's a big part of my passion in life.   Eva Williams: (10:42) And I found the Australian Shiatsu College, and I found my shakes. I found my Sufi shakes. And once I found these two things, everything else fell in line. Yes, I was initiated into Kriya yoga over when I was 21, which was amazing. When I was 20, still finding my feet, I hadn't found the college yet, I hadn't found my shakes yet. I used to lie in my bedroom listening to singing balls. And that was this one guy who I just loved, very camp, but amazing, but just incredible sound healer, just such an amazing heart and soul. And he would just put all this water in a bow and he'd be like, "These are the dolphin's ball, the dolphins are coming to sing us."   Eva Williams: (11:26) And he would hit it and he would play it. And it was like, oh my God, this man, I don't even know where he comes from, but he's amazing." So one day I fell asleep, listening to this and I woke up and how you know YouTube just plays. And I saw this image on my screen, and I looked at it and it was this blue light and this golden man. And it just said, "The golden body of the Yogi." And I knew in that moment this is why I'm on the planet. This is why I'm on the planet. And so then I found out who that was, and that was an image of Babaji. And so then I found out about Kriya yoga.   Eva Williams: (12:00) And it's interesting because when I had looked for yoga schools in India years before, the only ones that I had found that I wanted to go to were the Kriya yoga schools. And so I became initiated into the Kriya yoga lineage of the Babaji and then his disciple Lahiri Mahasaya, and then Sri Yukteswar, and Paramahamsa Yogananda. And that was the beginning of things unlocking for me. And then I found Shiatsu in oriental medicine, and I went on to study Japanese acupuncture. And then I also found a teacher, a female teacher, and she did a beautiful mixture of yoga and Daoist work with the Jade egg. And then through the studies that I was doing and her even teaching in the same building, I just made this place my home and we'd get all these amazing international practitioners.   Eva Williams: (12:50) I found myself picking up exactly what I needed from that, including doula training and all sorts of things like this that were going on in the space. And then I worked at a Japanese bath house after I graduated for five years or so, I think it was, or something around that. And I really was so lucky because even if you want to rack up hours as a practitioner, it's very hard to find a place to be doing flat out work as Shiatsu practitioner just right out of school. But I was able to rack up at 10,000 hours really quickly in my first, I would say, first six or seven years of work.   Eva Williams: (13:27) And then I went to Bali, I got married. I went to Bali for a honeymoon, and then I just decided I was going to move to Dubai because it was something I really wanted to do. And then about a year into being in Dubai, I was just lying in the bathtub and I just had this full download through my body. And these images came to me and all this stuff and I was just being told what to do like, "You need to write this down, you need to go and get these things." And I was told to build out a whole altar. So I had this massive altar. And I was just sitting in front of it like, "Okay, I now live in a church. What next?"   Eva Williams: (14:06) My husband, he was in Iraq at the time, so he wasn't home. So I was like, "Nobody's going to know about my weird little mat?" And then when he came home, he's like, "That's a lot of candles. Do you need to light all of them at once? Are we doing a séance? What's happening here?" But as I was doing this, the spirits of these different plants I've been told to buy exactly 13 were coming to me, people were sending me things. I was finding things that I'd had in my library for a long time, I'd just never seen them with that particular glow or from that angle, that a transmission was coming through.   Eva Williams: (14:41) And I basically just sat down and I wrote the 10 transmissions of level one of Golden Lotus, which is the eight extraordinary vessels and the 12 main meridians. Unless you do a practitioner training, I don't do Triple Warmer and Pericardium. So it's basically just the five elements. So water, wood, earth, metal as it were, and fire. And then the eight extraordinary. But we do the Chong Mai twice because it has the main vessel and then two other vessels. And for the purpose of female sexual cultivation, it's important actually to separate those two. And then from there, it just started unlocking, like level two became the three gates of orgasm and just the content was just pouring down.   Eva Williams: (15:28) And it was a mixture between a really pure transmission I was being guided to and led to, and then a really deep weaving of just years and years. I'm very, very autodidactic because I didn't go to high school even, so my ability to sit and research and work if I have the impetus is quite high. If not, guess what?   Tahnee: (15:54) Very low. I can relate to that.   Eva Williams: (16:00) I'm like, "Let's have a show of hands." I'm pretty sure everyone's like, "Yeah, that's a... '' So I was able to just channel this, and then it just was really natural that these two modalities, the way it's structured is that the level one is really about working with the Yoni egg, so the Jade egg. It's really about clearing your own body, detoxing and recentralizing through the pelvis. So clearing trauma in the pelvis, opening the sensitivity of the pelvis, and really weaving in the whole rest of the body to a pelvic alignment. So beginning to really understand all of these different reflex zones that we have in the body that all relate to the pelvis.   Eva Williams: (16:43) And I don't just mean the internal reflex zones of the different organ systems, I also mean really beginning to explore somatically the balance between the sacrum and the buttock and the stone and the breasts, or how there's different alignments of your pelvis and your jaw and your mouth. And there's multiple different ways that we can set up these reflexologies that allow us to have a sense that we're hinging from the pelvis. So it's very much about coming into that, and it's not supposed to be... It's supposed to basically teach you how to come into contact with your own energy, to disperse it through your whole body so that you can actually have proper tantra experiences and also to self-regulate.   Eva Williams: (17:23) Because the level two work, it's almost like we go from a pelvic central model out to the body. And then the next level is all more explicit. So it's like self-pleasure practises. Or if we do like a retreat, we'll do some touch exchange practises. If you come to my clinic, I will do internal work at times, things like this. And so that's very triggering work. And I've seen, because I have been in many of these schools with sexual energy, the lack of self-regulation that is taught before highly activating practises come into play. And I didn't like that.   Eva Williams: (18:02) And so while I didn't necessarily plan the way that Golden Lotus was channelled, it is a very deep reflection of the beliefs in the general that I've taken, which is that we need to prepare our body before we do all this highly sexual activating practise. Because otherwise, I think one of the big things in the tantra communities and things that's happened is, it's just become all about sex dressed up as something spiritual, you know?   Tahnee: (18:26) Oh, I know.   Eva Williams: (18:28) You're like, "Really? I've never come across this before."   Tahnee: (18:31) I'm just laughing because I spent some time at Agama Yoga in Thailand I have never laughed so hard. We did a 10 day silent meditation and we were asked to abstain from sex for 10 days. And every day, someone would ask, "I really feel like I need to have sex today. Could I possibly not have... " I was like, "So you guys can't go 10 days without touching yourself or someone else." I've never seen anything like it. So if you love Agama, I found it a really toxic culture. It was almost high school. I was really shocked.   Eva Williams: (19:10) It's infamous. It's infamous for this. My teacher went there, one of my teachers was there and she told me all about it. And then even recently, I was sitting with a friend and I was mentioning some of these things, and she was like, "Oh my gosh. One time, when I was at the very beginning of my path, I went to this place." And as soon as she said it, I knew. I was like, "I know where you were talking about. I've never been there myself, but it's infamous."   Tahnee: (19:37) It was an experience. Yes, I hear you.   Eva Williams: (19:37) I think that this thing is also, I think a lot of people come into tantra with a concept of partner base in mind, and the way that I was trained, particularly with my teachers in this more Sufi tradition and things like this, I never went into any of this work looking for my sexuality. I never thought I would only work with women, I never thought I would be working with birth. This was not my aim. My aim was just to heal people. I worked on everyone. And ultimately, my aim was just to find God, I just wanted to have a very deep spiritual experience or a series of those. And so that over time guided into that direction, I just saw the level of care and sobriety that was cultivated within me before putting me onto that path.   Eva Williams: (20:30) The level of deep devotion and sobriety to my own self-development was paramount. And so there wasn't a sense of like there was a real sense that I wasn't allowed to just mess around, I wasn't allowed to just go to whatever workshop I wanted or something. I was really guided very strongly as to what is an integrity and what is not an integrity as far as transmissions go. And I'm very grateful for that. At least it worked for me within my system of integrity. So then basically it brought the birth of this beautiful work and I think that people love it when they do it, and I think people do feel that they can regulate themselves through it.   Eva Williams: (21:12) And that work for me, very, very naturally falls into birth work. If you are learning how to move and you're learning all these different ways of detoxing and opening your body and then you're learning these three gates of orgasm, which is very specifically sent into the pelvis, so then we are really going into the semantics of the pelvis alone. If you're doing all of that work, that is the birth prep is just extraordinary. And so I developed that into a birthing programme as well, because we need more of that. I think that you're not really taught how much prep goes into birth until you're pregnant.   Tahnee: (21:48) And it's really not a great time then to be exploring.   Eva Williams: (21:52) No. Not at all because it's traumatic.   Tahnee: (21:53) Because of your trauma.   Eva Williams: (21:53) You can definitely do some work on it then, but you need some guidance and holding through that because unwinding trauma can take a really long time, the somatic body's not quick   Tahnee: (22:10) Not fast, very slow.   Eva Williams: (22:17) It really likes to take its time.   Tahnee: (22:17) Oh man, it's so true. And I think what is so interesting about what you're speaking to though with coming into birth work, I know for me, I did muntuk's work and I was having internal work there and working with eggs and clearing those, that whole period of time was big for me. It was unpleasant in some ways and really beautiful and powerful in other ways. But I came to birth and I remember thinking like, "If I hadn't done that work, I wouldn't be able to hold myself through pregnancy and birth the way I've been able to, through pregnancy and birth."   Tahnee: (22:56) And you are speaking to this sense of sobriety and this sense of strength and just the ability to hold your own energy and read your own energy and tune into it, I think that's the piece for women going in and it's like, you're going to have people try and tell you things that you have to filter through, your truth filters. You have to make decisions around your sovereignty and around your care that you probably... These are big decisions and you don't have much context for them usually. I know for me even being fairly educated, there's just stuff I was like, "Do I have to do this? What are the rules?"   Tahnee: (23:32) And I think if you don't have that strong foundation, I think that's stuff golden lotus, it sounds like it just provides that container for women to start to build that trust in themselves so they can go and then really be open to what is honestly the most incredible experience you can have as a woman. I know woman choose not to birth, but for me, profound, but a lot of preparation too, I think in my experience.   Eva Williams: (23:58) I think it's really underestimated how much prep it takes. And I think it's also, to understand that you've got so much content that you want to read about the spiritual, about the physiological, but also how much you've got to inform yourself around just-   Tahnee: (24:13) Practical.   Eva Williams: (24:14) Yeah. Just random medical stuff, because we are taught to just, if someone's wearing a white coat, they know. They wouldn't suggest it if it wasn't for your best.   Tahnee: (24:23) Is that true?   Eva Williams: (24:23) That's not true. And it's sad. It's so sad to acknowledge that, but that's unfortunately the truth. And so I'm in the process of putting together a programme now which really takes people, basically it's like a month-by-month programme. So you can buy the modules as a month or you can buy them as a whole. And it's got workbooks and meditations. It addresses the emotional, the spiritual, how far along your baby is and where they're growing.   Eva Williams: (24:57) And it really also, for me, there's like this very strong concept of, you have the mother, you have the child, and then you have the mother-child unit, this third that's being generated and they call it mama toto in Swahili, this concept of the mother-child. And to build a bridge between these things because one of the things that I've noticed in for example, certain modalities like APA, like the pre and perinatal psychology, people who do fantastic work is that one of the main... how do I explain this for people who don't maybe come from this context? Someone asked me recently, how can you tell if your doula is a good doula? How can you choose a good doula?   Eva Williams: (25:44) How many stars are there in the sky, my friend? And then immediately it came to me, I know it really... And I realised that the doula that I really, we don't even call ourselves doula's anymore because we consider ourselves more birth keepers or birth workers because the work gets so close to midwifery at a certain stage that the idea that you are not advocating for a client or all these sorts of things, it doesn't have a place when you get to a certain level of birth work. And these women, all of them speak to the baby individually to the mother. And immediately I realise, "Oh, if your doula will have an individual relationship to the baby, as they do to you, but they are there for you, to me, that's a good doula."   Eva Williams: (26:38) And I know that sounds strange, but I come very much from this concept that the baby is always the most conscious being in the room, born or unborn. And so if we can begin to actually... What I would love for more women to know is that a lot of women really get bogged down with this idea like, "It's me, it's my body. Yes, my partner's helping me, but I have to carry this. I feel heavy, this baby's relying on me." And so there becomes almost a scarcity of this really deep sense of drudgery or something related, or just a deep sense of lack of support that becomes related to birth.   Eva Williams: (27:10) And one of the things that I think is really important for women to understand is neither on a physiological level, not spiritual level are you alone? This baby is the one that will release the hormone that will tell your body and your stomach when to dilate. This child will send stem cells to heal your body into your blood. This child is there for you, and this child is leading this labour actually. So this child is bringing you energy and bringing you protection, and bringing you gifts of healing. And this moment is actually for you, it's not happening to you, it's happening for you.   Eva Williams: (27:49) So the moment that that child is born is your rebirth as well, it is your moment to also let go and let something new come through. And I think that interconnection, that interplay is what allows women to not just trust their body, which is one of the thing that I wish more people could establish prior to falling pregnant, we should call it rising pregnant, "I rose pregnant."   Tahnee: (28:14) It's beautiful.   Eva Williams: (28:16) But also that they begin to trust not just their body, but the baby. So they're like, "Yeah, my body knows how to do this and this, baby's got this, I've got it. Our relationship got it and my body's got it. So this is what's going to happen." And just really leading from that place. And for many people, that might sound fantastical, but the more that we're going to understand birth, the more that we look at what's happening with the stem cells, the more that we look at the neurology and the physiology of labour itself and the more that if you have done that previously, you'll know that this is real, this is actually what's happening, that there is this very deep exchange of support.   Eva Williams: (28:56) And that's what I think is the most powerful thing is when a woman trusts so innately in her body and in the child that has chosen her to take this journey, that bond is what's leading the labour. I just think that that's very powerful. So the course that I've developed is to try to assist with that, and then obviously is also bringing different movements for different trimesters because different parts of the body obviously get affected at different times, and hypnobirthing scripts and of dolphin and whale stuff going on there, because you know, our allies.   Tahnee: (29:31) It's so funny all the stuff you're speaking about. With my daughter, she's five now, nearly five, but I had a dolphin come to me while I was pregnant with her in the water. And she had me through the whole pregnancy, guiding everything. I was doing body work at the time and I had this really strong download that I had to stop. And I remember contacting my teacher, who's the female teacher of Chi Nei Tsang from Mantak Chia. She was like, "If the baby's telling you to stop your stuff," and I had this golden thread with her and she was this little golden being, so probably about, I think around two dissolved completely. It got weaker and weaker over time. But just all of that stuff...   Tahnee: (30:17) And I had a lot of stuff going on in my life when I was pregnant with her and she just held me like I was... I remember thinking, "I should be really stressed out right now, but I feel really safe and really held through this." And it took me a little while to realise that that was her contributing that to my experience. And I think that trust is something she gave me, which I think is a really beautiful thing. I'm halfway through my pregnancy now, I'm four months, but this pregnancies been really different for me. So it's interesting. I'm interested to see how they play out, because I haven't had that same sense of baby protection or strong baby messages.   Tahnee: (31:03) But I'm interested in that space because I think it's hard to talk about that stuff as a woman, the midwives I had were very practical, wonderful women, but they were very grounded and of the earth. And you had a textbook pregnancy and a textbook birth, well done? And I was like, "Yeah, but what about all this cool stuff that's happening to me?" And they were like, "We don't want to talk about that stuff." I was like, "Okay."   Eva Williams: (31:33) It's a shame actually because it's weird thing-   Tahnee: (31:35) I'm glad you're here.   Eva Williams: (31:35) What did you say?   Tahnee: (31:38) That I'm glad you're here in the world.   Eva Williams: (31:41) Dolphins are so important in birth. That's so important. People who are not getting this message, I'm like, "You guys have to... " I always tell my clients, I'm like, "Just Google." I'll be like, "Yeah, the dolphin midwives." And then everyone at the table laughed. I'm like, "Huh." Wait until you see it.   Tahnee: (31:57) It's true, Hawaii.   Eva Williams: (31:57) I know. And then I'm like, "Google it. You Google dolphin midwife." And people come back, "Whoa." I'm like, "Yeah, that's actually a"-   Tahnee: (32:01) And wasn't they doing it in Russia, the Google something?   Eva Williams: (32:05) They did, yes. Birthing to being, Alana's work was incredible.   Tahnee: (32:08) Because Jeannine Parvati Baker talks about it a lot in her work, and some other people have talked about studying.   Eva Williams: (32:16) I think the woman who found a birth into being, she had a centre in the Caspian sea where the dolphins would come in and people would just be freebirthing in the water, which is wild. And so we have over here, birth it's a very obstetric-run American imported system. It's pretty brutal. So we are looking at different birth centres talk of shifting some things around birth here because Dubai is like a playground in terms of, they're so open to new ideas. And people may not think of them like that from the outside, but they really are.   Eva Williams: (32:56) They're so innovative and there's some very special, very, very, very special energy to the Emiratis to the Bedouin people, just something very special. So we were looking at working with a very beautiful woman whose work I incorporate a lot into mine, her name's Dr. Gallery. And she has some beautiful, gentle birth clinics in London and things like this. And she said, "Oh yes, I'd love to come out and do something with you guys in Dubai, but I only want to work with the dolphins." And she's a full OB/GYN. And I was like, "You and me, this is going to work so well." I was like, "Scrap all the land we've found, we're going to the ocean."   Eva Williams: (33:43) I was like, "This is the future of it. This is the future of birth." And I think that there's a lot of beautiful places in Cairo and around Egypt as well like in Sharm El Sheikh and in the Red Sea that we might begin to also see really beautiful work with the dolphins popping up. And I know that a couple of people that I know have wanted to do things like this in the North of Ibiza, and South, but the problem is the water's very cold over there, so it's not really something that can work as well. But in these waters, when the dolphin comes to the baby, it is telling you that you are going to give birth soon. Maybe in this instance, I don't know where you were in your pregnancy.   Tahnee: (34:18) No. I was heavily pregnant. My husband I got engaged there, and we got married there. It's this very special spot for us. And I was standing probably naval deep in water and it came, honestly, I was terrified. I was not like, "Oh my God." I was like, "Ah, I think a dolphin is coming at me." And it whooshed so close to me. My husband was out deep and he turned around and saw the dolphin and was like, "Whoa." And then there was a whole pod behind him. But it broke off and came and checked me out. And they can sonar heartbeats and stuff so I was thinking it must have been checking me out and being like, "What are you doing?"   Eva Williams: (35:00) So what they do is when you're very heavily pregnant, if they come towards you and if they put the nose toward the belly or come very close to you, usually you're always going to give birth.   Tahnee: (35:08) I thought it was going to scare me.   Eva Williams: (35:08) Oh, what a lovely experience.   Tahnee: (35:14) I was not like, "Oh my God." Seriously, I was like, "Holy crap, is this safe?"   Eva Williams: (35:18) I know. Every time I was in New Zealand and dolphins came as well, I was swimming in the water and I just shot bowl upright and I was standing and I was like, "There's something in the water." And I'd hear these voices like, "It's okay." I'm like, "It's definitely not fucking okay." My instinct body was like, "This is not okay." And my spiritual body was like, "It's going to be okay." And every part of me was like, "That's fine, but I'm still going to stand because I can run, and those, they can swim. This is not my territory."   Tahnee: (35:45) It's true.   Eva Williams: (35:49) It's so true. But they can activate the labour. They can do this really strongly by communicating with the child as well. It's something very, very powerful.   Tahnee: (35:58) Super cool. And the indigenous people here where we are, they believe that they are their people. Every time I've been in any ceremony or anything they will speak to the whales and the dolphins here as being ancestors.   Eva Williams: (36:10) Yeah. They bring children.   Tahnee: (36:14) Yeah. It makes a lot of sense.   Eva Williams: (36:18) I believe they bring the children because they don't just turn up when a woman's very pregnant to assist in the physiological activation of the hormonal aspects of labour, many, many women will see dolphins on the night they conceive or at the time or just before conception. And whenever a woman's like, "Yeah, we're trying to get pregnant. Oh, I saw dolphins." I'm like, "You go have baby." I had a friend and she saw porpoises. They're not even dolphins, I was like, "You go have a baby." And they did the ultrasound and they tuned it back to that time.   Tahnee: (36:49) Perhaps they're related to a dolphin somehow.   Eva Williams: (36:51) I'm like, "It could be a manatees, I don't care, you're having a baby." I'm joking.   Tahnee: (36:59) An orca. Let's not get too crazy. But it's okay. Tell me about this primary thing. That's interesting, because I know if you're not aware of this, I don't know if we've spoken about this on the podcast yet, so the hormonal cascade that the baby triggers in the mother, this is all these beautiful juicy hormones like oxytocin and things that, A, make birth less painful, which is a good thing. And B, obviously also the whole cascade of uterine contractions, breast milk coming in, all of these things. So the baby actually triggers that. And one of the things that happens a lot in our culture is we induce, or if there's an obstetrician that my midwife shared with me who wants to induce everyone at 38 weeks in a hospital near us.   Tahnee: (37:40) And this kind of thing just terrifies me, and I have friends who've waited 43 weeks plus for their babies to come.   Eva Williams: (37:48) Especially plus babies.   Tahnee: (37:51) My daughter was 42 weeks on the day. And I just think, can you speak a little bit to women who might have fear around, "I'm getting pressure from my OB/GYN or my midwife to induce." I know it's a real slippery topic, but at least speak to that.   Eva Williams: (38:06) No, no. It's not. I don't think it's slippery at all, I think it's underdressed. And it's interesting, I remember, so here they've got DHA, the Dubai Health Authority, has a policy around a certain time. Even if your OB/GYN is more liberal, there's a certain red tape that they can't really cross. And so I remember the first hospital birth I did in Dubai, home birth is illegal here by the way. It's actually not illegal to give birth at home, it's illegal for anyone to assist, anyone who has a licence issued by the government could get it taken away if they assist you.   Eva Williams: (38:44) So if you bring in a midwife from overseas or for me, I'm not an OB/GYN or a midwife, so I'm also not really assisting people with home births here because I don't think that's necessarily a great thing to do. But if someone were in labour and it was progressing really quickly, rather than stress them out and shove them into a car, I think I know what I'd probably end up doing. But it's an interesting thing because I remember the very first one I attended, the OB/GYN was just pressuring my clients so hard and she was outside and afterwards she was crying.   Eva Williams: (39:20) She's like, "I don't know what to do." And so obviously, as a birth worker, I've got 117 different things to pull out of the cupboard because I'm acupuncture, Im like okay acupuncture, we've been doing Homoeopathy week, 36 or 38 at that point, let's try some different homoeopathy, maybe something that's addressing more of the fears and emotions. Let's do massage, let's do the dirty three, hot food, a glass of wine and have some sex, all of that. And then also internal work, massage the cervix, check how it phased someone is, just at that stage of pregnancy. So we did a really beautiful ceremony of her husband and her on the bed, and I did the internal work. It was very dark. We put on music.   Eva Williams: (40:10) And we just really checked out what was happening, what the engagement was. So not a vaginal exam, but just to actually see, and definitely not a sweep or something, none of that stuff I'm trained in, but just really actually to feel how the effacement was going, how the pelvis was feeling, what was actually getting caught up in the pelvic. Was there something caught up there or was she just not ready? And for me, it was really clear that she's just not ready. It's her first baby, it's 39 weeks and the baby is just not ready. It's not coming yet.   Eva Williams: (40:38) I think that what's difficult about getting pressure... I remember after this situation, I gave them all these techniques. I said, "We're going to make a plan. Don't worry." And they felt better, and I went to my car and I just fucking sat in my car and cried for 20 minutes. The sense of stress and pressure, and it's not even my baby, that happens in that room when a doctor strong arms you and tells you that what they know is right, when it may not feel right for you, is so intense. And I know that doctors don't fully understand that. I know that OB/GYNs, not all of them fully understand that. I have the great privilege of working with many who do.   Eva Williams: (41:17) And I remember during this labour, I was sitting out in the hallway and I was just crying. And the doctor came to me and she's like, "Why are you crying?" I'm like, "Dude, you're pushing so hard. This is ridiculous. This is going to end really not well." And then she started tearing up and sat down next to me. And she's like, "It's just a lot of pressure." And we were just having this full heart to heart, just weeping in the hallway. Like, "What the fuck?" But it managed to buy me another 48 hours for my clients, which is amazing.   Tahnee: (41:46) Good work.   Eva Williams: (41:52) It's so much pressure. It's so much pressure. The thing is that there's very little that actually requires induction. Things that do not require induction, your baby is too big for your pelvis, it's a big baby, your baby has passed 40 weeks, meconium has passed, the cord is around the neck. These are not reasons for induction and they're not reasons for C-sections either. It's just very intense. I think some something that people don't understand is that an OB/GYN or a medical professional on your birth is someone that you want there in an emergency situation, they have no requirement to witness physiological birth. They have none. They do not have to witness a single, natural, physiological birth as part of their training, they have to do surgery.   Eva Williams: (42:48) So their whole frame of reference is coming that birth as an emergency. They have never had to sit. If you ask an OB/GYN what's a normal to long labour, I had an OB/GYN tell me that 10 hours was a long labour. I'm like, "Jesus Christ, what are you guys having? Have you got a slip slide set up out here." I was on a midwife tour recently in Aspen, someone's like, "How does labour take?" And the midwife's like, "It can take up to two hours." I was like, "What?" If it's your fourth baby and you're at nine centimetres. It's just ridiculous.   Tahnee: (43:19) Wow.   Eva Williams: (43:19) Yeah, I know. I know. And I always think to myself like, "Wow, I think that 40 hours of fairly active labour is long." I think that labour from early labour onward can go on for a week. That's the sort of time I'm willing to just give a woman and her body to just dilate at its pace and do its thing, and it's just unheard of. So if people are getting pressure to induce and it's funny, because we've made this thing over here and we're not doing it yet, but it's a couple of doulas and I have this, it's kind of our joke, but I also want to do it. And it's going to be for women who for partners, 36 and 37 weeks onward, and it's going to be the induction group.   Eva Williams: (44:01) Basically, you all come together and we watch a funny movie or a beautiful movie about birth, and you get a glass of red wine. We're not getting hammered over here, but you get a glass of red wine. We have some food, whether it's Indian or Thai, something with a little bit of spice, a little bit Mexican or something, and you just share. And you can share if it's stressful, you can share if it's funny, we share content and information. And then if you want to stay for the second part, we teach something like certain techniques, maybe not actually internal, but certain techniques like clitoral stroking or labial massage or hip massage or things like that that your partner can do that will assist in your hips getting ready and things like that.   Eva Williams: (44:42) And just from 37 weeks on, everyone is welcome to just join, come, have that glass of wine, just get a move on. Do a bit of dancing, have a bit of laughter. Because the group, you share more pheromonal energy. Because that's something that isn't readily shared, adrenaline and cortisol inhibit oxytocin. So if you're stressed, you cannot go into natural labour, they inhibit one another. So if women are feeling stressed about being induced, the thing that they really need is they need to disconnect from the timeline of intensity, they really need the opportunity to disconnect from that.   Eva Williams: (45:17) So if the doctor's pressuring you and says, "Okay, well take your time, but I need to see you again in two or three days." Don't go, don't go in two or three days. If they need to see you again, they can see you in a week. All they're going to do is an ultrasound and whatever, maybe a sweep. Give yourself the space that your body needs. And also, really, really, really take your homoeopathy from 36 weeks, from 36 weeks, be taking your homoeopathy and be taking just this very gentle way of beginning to release the stress on the system. Take the aconite, take the arnica.   Eva Williams: (46:00) Another thing that's really important, and again, this all goes back to prep, because if you're doing everything at the last moment, you're going to be dealing with a lot. In the programme that I run, around third 30 to 34 weeks, in between this time before your GBS test, we explore different internal works. And not necessarily me doing that, but maybe it's related to sex with the husband, maybe it's related to self-pleasure, maybe it's just internal gaze and interception kind of meditation, but we start unblocking and unlocking anything that might be held in the pelvis.   Eva Williams: (46:37) And then also, if you have a chiro, there's the Webster technique, or if you have a Bowen therapist who can do the sacral... There's a series of sacral releases that they can do. Anything you can do to prepare your body, to feel really good and open, speak to your cervix, ripen your cervix, yourself, speak to it, see beautiful pink light moving through it. All of these things work, they really, really work. And what doesn't work is being pressured into having a baby, it just doesn't fucking work. There's no evidence to support that it's ever worked.   Eva Williams: (47:11) It's insane, even with the foetal monitoring, even that, there's the only proof that it actually has any benefit is it there's no proof. The only thing that it's actually done is increased C-section rates. And so, these sorts of things, we have to just be really mindful of what the outcome is. Is the outcome an alive baby or is the outcome an empowered woman who knows herself and knows her body and can recover in the postpartum process because she's actually connected to the child, because oxytocin is also a huge part of recovery. It's what's bringing the colostrum and the breast milk, it's what's actually involuting the uterus.   Eva Williams: (47:52) So if we don't have this connection from the outside, if we're having those issues, then we also face a much longer recovery period. And that's when you really begin to see from an emotional perspective, from a body work perspective. If I see diastasis, like a herniated diastasis or something like this, for me, that's always that the woman has been opened in the birth process, but she hasn't had the closing afterwards, so she has no centre. Can you imagine what it would be doing to your back, to not have your rectus abdominis working? Basically, your back would be as stiff as a board, and that's a woman who feels that she's not supported. She hasn't been supported through that process.   Eva Williams: (48:37) I don't know, this stuff is so intuitive and natural, it feels so natural to say, but we aren't there as a culture of medicine and we're not there as a culture of birth yet either, and it's difficult. And there's a way I just want to say to people, just protect kept yourself. But I actually love working with OB/GYNs and I do love working with the medical system when they get it right, and they very often, if you find the right people and places, they do get it right. I had a doula complain to me the other day about how, at this one hospital that's really great here, the midwife didn't even turn up and the baby just came out.   Eva Williams: (49:17) And I was like, "Is this a complaint? This is a complaint that the baby just naturally came out and the mother caught her home own baby?" I'm sorry, I don't feel the same level of stress around this that you feel. It's so beautiful to hear about less managed births. And this is for those people who are being pushed toward induction, this is called active management, basically, of expectations in relationship to doctors. And another thing to understand is that 40 weeks doesn't really mean much.   Tahnee: (49:52) So arbitrary.   Eva Williams: (49:54) It's insane. I'm not standardised by that. Some hospitals do it from the first day of your last period, some do it from the last day of your last period? It's just ridiculous and there's no evidence that proves that. I think of 10% of children come on their due day.   Tahnee: (50:11) Not good odds-   Eva Williams: (50:12) I know, right. Yes. And everyone wants to be fucking Natalie Portman or Kate Moss or something. And guess what, 1%. You know what I mean? It's one of these expectations that we set up. We are lying to women when we tell them that they should be fitting that mould, and we are taking away from them the opportunity for them to make their own mould of what it looks like. So contentious. It doesn't actually feel that contentious, it feels really straightforward, but whatever.   Tahnee: (50:39) Well, it's interesting because I think one thing for me with birth too, it felt like... I don't want to be in the feminine/masculine, for me, time when I'm in a feminine space, linear time is not a thing. It's not real, it doesn't exist and there's this just natural unfolding of things as they are. My feeling around birth was very much like we're trying to apply this very linear masculine dimension to it and it doesn't exist like that. I think this idea of 10 moons or being able to see it in this sense of it's with them and it's a flow, but it's not something that's going to happen on a day. I'm struggling with it right now, people are like, "What's your due date?"   Tahnee: (51:33) And I'm, "Well, I don't know, sometime in April." And they want a due date. Well, I do know it's April 1st, but I don't believe my baby's going to come on April 1st.   Eva Williams: (51:44) I can tell you what I do always is I just take the full moon of that month. And I was like, "She's not due, then she's due in the beginning of the month." I'm like, "I don't care."   Tahnee: (51:56) That's when they come.   Eva Williams: (51:57) The baby is now officially due on the full moon. Baby's like a full moon, that's what's happening. It doesn't mean we won't prepare and I don't necessarily calculate my weeks from that, I'll do it from that ultrasound or whatever. And the programme that we are doing is a 10-moon programme, it's 10 modules and they're 10 moons. Yeah, it's just recognising that children have a rhythm, it's not something that we can set or determine. That rhythm is related to obviously the tides of our own life. Some babies like a new moon. There's no set rules, you can't apply them one way or another, like you said.   Eva Williams: (52:33) And I love this idea that, look, birth is very much about learning about abundance, about our own abundance, that we can actually create a whole other being. It's this radiant space that we enter into. Adding scarcity of time to that means that a woman feels a scarcity of space. And if she's feeling a scarcity of time and space, as these two things do manifest together within her own body, you're taking away the whole dimension and realm that she needs to live inside of during her birth, like you said. It's this feminine space. And that doesn't mean that we can't have a plan during pregnancy, it doesn't mean that certain practises won't be better at different times.   Eva Williams: (53:12) It doesn't mean any of that, but it's the invasiveness of how we treat birth needs to stop. I'm working on a new project right now, and I'm very excited about it and I can't say much about it, but what I can say is that one of the main focuses of it is the removal of incredibly invasive techniques. And some of them aren't even necessarily invasive, they're just fucking disgusting like the gestational diabetes test.   Tahnee: (53:40) Oh, that was the only fucking thing I did last time. And I was like, "This is the most sugar I've had in my entire adult life." Maybe as a kid, I gorged on Lollies, but other than that." That's the only time I was sick in my pregnancy was after that.   Eva Williams: (53:54) Yes, so many women have said to me like, "Oh yeah, definitely, the most traumatic thing of my pregnancy was that time."   Tahnee: (54:01) I was like, "Fucking hell, guys." It's like nine Coca-Colas or something. I'm like, "Great."   Eva Williams: (54:07) And it's not necessary. It's not necessary because there's so many other ways to remediate or even to tell. And what was so funny is, I was with a client recently and she had to shift OB/GYNs because on her due date, the original OB/GYN is not going to be there. And so we had just gone to that OB/GYN and said, "Look, we're opting out of this." And she was ready to fight. She's like, "I don't want this person." I was like, "Just chill. I'm sure they'll be fine with it." Don't go in for a battle, that's one thing. All birth workers, everyone, just don't go in for a battle. If you have to put your armour on, do it, but don't go in for a battle. And the doctor was like, "Huh. I've been in birth for a long time and I've seen a lot of incredible advancements and devices and ultrasound and all sorts of things really. And yet they still haven't managed to make something less disgusting than that drink. That's okay. Don't worry about it."   Eva Williams: (55:01) Even an OB/GYN was like, "Yeah, you'd think we'd gotten to this level, but really it's just Lucozade, sugar." And then we had to go to this other one and really communicate once again like, "Hey, the preference is for this off the table." And she just was like, "That's the most disgusting drink in the world, I wouldn't push that test on anyone." I was like, "Wow."   Tahnee: (55:19) Amazing. That's a good change in culture. [crosstalk 00:55:22]. What's your rate on ultrasounds in general? I haven't spoken about this much on the podcast either, but I do get asked about it a lot, and there's the one side of it where people are like, "It's good to know and it gives you that reassurance." And then there's the other side, which is probably more of the side I'm on where it's like, "What would it tell me that actually... What benefit would that information actually give me?" So I'm curious as to your take on that as a birth keeper.   Eva Williams: (55:53) Well, it's a great topic. One thing I can definitely say is, you know your body, you've done a lot of work with your body. I have also clients who are just super on it, and yet sometimes, and I'm thinking of one person specific, that if a woman, for example, has a miscarriage or something like this, even if she isn't someone who would naturally or usually lean toward wanting ultrasound or something like that in that early part of the next pregnancy, it brings an enormous amount of relief to know that everything's going healthy.   Tahnee: (56:38) Reinsurance.   Eva Williams: (56:38) Exactly. If you have chromosomal issues in your life, those 12 week tests, in your family, for example, or even the 20-week morphology exams, they can bring a lot of knowledge. So from my perspective, what I usually say to women when they say, "What do you think is necessary, blah, blah." I said, "The first thing that's necessary is anything that will bring you comfort. If your level of comfort and certainty and anxiety will drop with each or any of those visits, then those are the ones that are necessary, because your emotional and mental wellbeing is more important to the baby's health and growth than anything that an ultrasound is going to do to your body. That's my perspective.   Eva Williams: (57:25) And then usually, they just say that the main tests that are important are your morphology, your 20, 21-week scan, and that's really just to see if there's any... For those of you who don't know, that's not really an ultrasound, it's a full building out of, they check all of the different organs.   Tahnee: (57:44) It's pretty cool. I was like, "Whoa. There's a kidney and there's a... "   Eva Williams: (57:53) They go in, they check all the tissues, they check the formation of the organs. This is technology that I'm grateful that we have because it can put a lot of decision making power into people's hands. And simultaneously, I know a lot of people who aren't down for it, they're like, "No way, that's even worse than an ultrasound. That's super intense for the baby, blah, blah, blah." For me, it's all about comfort. And I have had a couple birth workers recently and clients saying, they're like, "Well, I know you're very pro natural birth and this is not."   Eva Williams: (58:26) I'm like, "Hang on a minute. I'm not really for or against anything, I just don't really have a role to play. If you're planning a C-section... " I know what the body is capable of, and those are personal experiences that I've had. You can't take that away from me or I cannot pretend that I don't know what the physical body can do and what we may need to train for, but can actually get what this experience can be. So I can't take that out of my being that if you know that that's available, that you gravitate toward it, but it doesn't necessarily mean that I am anti anything."   Eva Williams: (59:03) I've had my time being anti epidural, and then I saw a series of Pilates teachers and yoga teachers who had super tight pelvic floors get an epidural after like 36 hours of labour, and just one hour, boom, baby was out. Really incredible experiences. Legs were still working, everything. So I can't go through the level of experience that I've had, I can't afford to fight anyone. I hate it in the birth world, I hate this, the fight that happens when people are... I believe in advocating that there's a point where if you can change that inside of yourself, you stop attracting moments to have those conversations. That's what I have found in my personal experience.   Eva Williams: (59:45) And so I try to just be very, very open, and the reason is because I don't necessarily need to specify what I will and won't work with, because I really only attract people that I really will be the right person for. But I would say, if someone is just like, "I don't know what to get and when." I would just say, "Look, the most standard thing is that you have a 12-week ultrasound, you have your 21 week morphology. That puts a lot of power in your hands. Look it up, do a little bit of research." And then usually, there'll be something as a bare minimum right before your birth, like a 36-week thing, and then we'll do a GBS swab."   Eva Williams: (01:00:21) And you don't have to do your GBS swab, you don't have to get that scan. You can just wait and go into labour naturally as well. But those are some of the options. And I don't believe that you need anything more than that, but I've been with women who are going every third day in the end of their pregnancy just to sit in a room for 20 minutes just to hear if the baby's safe and good. If that's wh

History Unplugged Podcast
Why the 1619 Project is Dangerous and Should Be Totally Rejected

History Unplugged Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 30, 2021 46:41


The biggest and most controversial historical debate in 2020 is the 1619 Project. Released last year in a special issue of the New York Times Magazine, it is a collection of articles which "aims to reframe the country's history by placing the consequences of slavery and the contributions of black Americans at the very center of [the United States'] national narrative.” More specifically, it claims that the United States is fundamentally and irrevocably racist. Slavery, not the Constitution or 1776, are at the core of American identity. It reviews slavery not as a blemish that the Founders grudgingly tolerated with the understanding that it must soon evaporate, but as the prize that the Constitution went out of its way to secure and protect. Specific claims include the following: the Revolutionary War was fought above all to preserve slavery, that capitalism was birthed on the plantation, and features of American society like traffic jams or affinity for sugar are connected to slavery and segregation.The project was condemned by historians from left to right. Prince historian Allen Guelzo said that “the 1619 Project is not history; it is conspiracy theory. And like all conspiracy theories, the 1619 Project announces with a eureka! that it has acquired the explanation to everything.” Fellow Princeton historian Sean Wilentz has circulated a letter objecting to the project, and the letter acquired signatories like James McPherson, Gordon Wood, Victoria Bynum, and James Oakes, all leading scholars in their field who object to very basic factual inaccuracies in the project.Despite the 1619 Project's numerous historical inaccuracies, the project has spread like wildfire. The creator Nicole Hannah-Jones won a Pulitzer Prize in 2020 for Commentary. Hundreds of newspapers have endorsed it. Most concerning, public schools began incorporating into their curricula early this year. The Pulitzer Center helped turn the 1619 Project into a curriculum that's now taught in more than 4,500 schools across the nation. It threatens to destroy civics education as it has been taught for generations in K-12 education. History teachers will abandon the narrative of the Civil War, emancipation, and the Civil Rights movement. Instead, they will ask students how societal structures perpetuate the enslavement of black people.Today's guest is Dr. Mary Grabar, author of “Debunking The 1619 Project: Exposing the Plan to Divide America.”She provides an extensive look at the divisive and false tactics used to associate America with the exact opposite values of its founding. I.Dr. Mary Grabar reveals the following statistics that alarmingly display how the divisive 1619 Project is uprooting the history and culture of American lifeThis episode is different because I am explicitly endorsing the argument of this author and denouncing the 1619 project. I almost never do this because I don't want to tell you, the listener, how to think. Rather, I let a guest present his or her arguments, make the case as best as possible, play devil's advocate when needed, but ultimately provide the best historical raw material so that you, the audience, and be the judge.I'm making an exception with the 1619 project because I think the arguments are so poorly constructed, juvenile, and political in nature that they don't deserve the dignity of being taken seriously. Normally, I would ignore such poorly crafted arguments, in the same way that I wouldn't have on a guest who says that aliens built the pyramids, or that a German U-Boat sunk the Titanic. At the risk of being political, I think that the 1619 project is at the same intellectual level as UFO conspiracy theories. The problem is that it has elite support. But the effects of 1619 are seeping into public school curricula. The date of 1619 is entering public consciousness. This is only because of politics, because the political claims of the project line up with the political beliefs of certain teachers, Pulitzer committee members and others. In addition to this book, I'm going to list resources in the show notes for this episode that provide good history. They include 1776 Project Pact https://1776projectpac.com/ 1776 United: https://1776unites.com/

The Bike Shed
317: Burn The Ships!

The Bike Shed

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 30, 2021 41:41


Steph gives an update about RSpec focus and how she often forgets to remove the focus feature from tests. She figured out two solutions: one using Rubocop, and the other from a Twitter user, suggesting using a GitHub gist. She also suggests that if you're one of those people who misses being in an office environment, you check out soundofcolleagues.com for ambient office noise selection. Chris has been struggling to actually do any coding and is adjusting to doing more product management and shares some strategies that have been helping him. They answer a listener question about dealing with large pull requests and how it's hard to recognize a good seam to break them up when you are in the thick of one. This episode is brought to you by ScoutAPM (https://scoutapm.com/bikeshed). Give Scout a try for free today and Scout will donate $5 to the open source project of your choice when you deploy. Twitter note re: rspec-retry (https://twitter.com/jasonrudolph/status/1458416077726158852) soundofcolleagues.com (https://soundofcolleagues.com) mailcheck (https://github.com/mailcheck/mailcheck) Inertia.js (https://inertiajs.com/) Svelte (https://svelte.dev/) devise (https://github.com/heartcombo/devise) clearance (https://github.com/thoughtbot/clearance) Become a Sponsor (https://thoughtbot.com/sponsorship) of The Bike Shed! Transcript: CHRIS: One day, I'll grow up. It's fine. I look forward to that day. But today, I don't think it's that day. Hello and welcome to another episode of The Bike Shed, a weekly podcast from your friends at thoughtbot about developing great software. I'm Chris Toomey. STEPH: And I'm Steph Viccari. CHRIS: And together, we're here to share a bit of what we've learned along the way. So, Steph, what's new in your world? STEPH: Hey, Chris. Well, in some fun news, Utah started his professional training as of this morning, which I'm very excited about. Because we've been working with him to work on being good with walking on a leash, FYI, he's not, [laughs] and also being good about not jumping on people. And essentially, being a really good roommate. And he started training today, and we are using an e-collar, which initially I was really hesitant about because I don't want it to hurt him in any way. But now that I have felt the e-collar myself and we've had a first day with it, it's going super well. I'm very excited for where this is headed. CHRIS: That's very exciting. When does he start paying rent? STEPH: Ooh. I'll have to check with him, or I guess I have set those boundaries. That's my job. CHRIS: I just figured that's a core part of being a good roommate. But maybe we've got baby steps or doggy steps to get there. But that's exciting. I'm glad [laughs] that the first day of training is going well. STEPH: Yeah, it's going great. And the place that we're going to the trainer they have horses, and mules, and goats. And so now I have a very cute video of him trying to play with a goat, and the goat was having none of it. But it's still all very cute. In tech-related news, I have an update for when you and I were recently chatting about the RSpec focus and how I mentioned that I often forget to remove the focus feature from tests. And so then that goes up to a PR, and I have to rely on a kind human to let me know, and then I remove it. Or worst-case scenario, it gets merged into the main branch. And for anyone that's not on Twitter, I just wanted to share an update because I also shared something there. But the resolution for what I was looking for there's already a rule that's written into Rubocop, but it's specifically written in the Rubocop RSpec codebase. And with that rule, you can essentially just say, hey, let me know anytime that a test is using the focus metadata, and then make sure to let me know and fail. And then if you don't want to actually include all of Rubocop into your project because Rubocop is pretty opinionated, you can still add Rubocop to your project, but you can specifically add Rubocop RSpec, and then you can say, hey, all other rules disabled by default, but then you can enable that specific rule. So then, that way, you will catch all of your focus tests. There's also another approach that someone on Twitter shared with us recently from Marz Drel. And Marz shared specifically a really nice simple GitHub Gist that documents or exemplifies that you can add an environment variable that checks to say, hey, if we're in CI mode, then add a before hook. And then that before hook will look for any examples that are using that focus metadata, and then it's going to raise. And then if we're not in CI mode, then don't do anything, don't raise, and carry on. And that's just a really nice simple addition if someone didn't want to pull in Rubocop into their project. CHRIS: Both of those definitely sound like great options. I don't think we have Rubocop on the current project that I'm working on. But I think the RSpec focus thing, the metadata one, seems like it'll work great. More generally, I just want to thank folks out there who listen to the show and then write back in like, "Hey, this is probably what you want." There was a similar thread that someone shared around the RSpec::Retry stuff that I was talking about recently and the failure mode there and trying to get that into the Junit Reporter. And so they had some suggestions around that. Jason Rudolph on Twitter reached out, sharing just his initial exploration and thoughts on how it might be possible to extend the XML reports that are generated and capture a flaky test in that way. So that's really interesting. And again, just really love that folks are listening to the things that we say and then even adding on to them and continuing the conversation. So thanks to everybody for sharing those things. STEPH: Yeah, it's incredibly helpful. And then one other fun thing that I'd love to share, and I found this out from someone else at thoughtbot because they had shared it recently. But it's a neat website called soundofcolleagues.com. And I know you've got your laptop in front of you. So if you'll go visit it, it'll be neat to see as we're talking through it. For anyone else that wants to pull it up, too, we'll include a link in the show notes. But it's a neat project that someone started where you can bump up the sounds that you would normally hear in an office. So maybe you want to bump up background noise of people or an open window. There's one specifically for printers and a coffee machine, and keyboards are on there as well. [laughs] I have discovered I am partial open window and partial rain, although rain is just always my go-to. I like the sound of rain for when I'm working. CHRIS: Gentle rain is definitely nice white noise in general. I've seen this for coffee shops, but I haven't seen the particular one. Also, yes, I definitely know how to spell the word colleague on the first of three tries. Definitely didn't have to rely on Google for that one. But yeah, nice site there. I enjoy that. STEPH: I tried the keyboard option that's on there because I was like, oh yeah, I'm totally going to be into this. This is going to be my jam. I don't think it is because I realized that I'm very biased. I like the sound of my own keyboard. So I had to shush the other one and just listen to the rain and the open window. But that's some of the fun things that are going on in my world today. What's new in your world? CHRIS: I'm just now spending a moment with the keyboard sound. It's a very muted keyboard. I want a little more clackety. STEPH: A little more clackety? CHRIS: I was assuming it would be too much clackety, and that would be the problem. But it sounds more mushy. Maybe we can pipe in some of the sound here [laughs] at this point. Or we can link to these sounds, and everyone can dial up the keyboards to 100. But I, too, am partial to the sounds of my own keyboard. But what's new in my world? This past week and I think probably even a little bit more of the prior week, I've been noticing that I've been struggling to actually do any coding, which has been interesting to observe. And again, trying to observe it, not necessarily judge it, although if that's not the thing that we want to be doing, then try and improve that. But mostly trying to observe what's going on, what is taking my time. A lot of it is product management type work. So I am spending a good amount of time trying to gather the different voices and understand what is the work to be done, and then shape that into the backlog and make sure that that's clear and ready for the team to pick up. And then, thankfully, the other two developers that are working on the project are fantastically prolific. So they're often very quickly working through the work that has been set up in front of them. And so I'm trying to then be proactive and respond to the code. But there's almost a cycle to it where I'm just staying out in front of them, but they're catching up with everything that's going on. So it's something that I'm trying again to be intentional about, name, share some of that back up with the group. If there are things that I'm doing that I don't uniquely need to be doing, then let's share as much of that knowledge as possible. But one thing that I will say is the product management, shaping the backlog work is exhausting. I am astonished by just how drained I am at the end of the day. And I'm like, I don't even really feel like I did anything. I didn't write any code, but I am just completely spent. And there really is something to when the work is clear, just doing the work, I can actually find energizing. And it's fun, and I can get in flow state. And sometimes, I'll be drained in a certain way. But the work of taking a bunch of different slack threads, and communications, and meetings, and synthesizing that down, and then determining what the work needs to look like moving forward, and providing enough clarity but then not over constraining and not providing too much clarity. And there are so many micro-decisions that are being made in there. And I'm just spent at the end of the day, and I have so much...I've always had a lot of respect for product managers and folks that are existing in that interstitial space and trying to make sense of the noise, especially of a growing company, but all the more so this week as I've been feeling some of that myself. STEPH: I totally agree. I have felt that having a strong product manager really makes or breaks a project for me where even though having technical leadership is really nice, I'd prefer someone that's really strong at the product knowledge and then helping direct where the product is headed. That is incredibly helpful. Like you mentioned, the work is exhausting. There's someone that joined the thoughtbot team fairly recently, and I was chatting with them about what type of projects they would be interested in working on. And one of their responses was, "I'd love to work on a project with a strong product manager because I have been doing that a fair amount for recent years. And I would love to get back to just focusing on coding." And so I think they enjoyed some of the work, but they just recognize it's exhausting. And I'd really like to just get back to writing code for a while. CHRIS: Yeah, I'm definitely in that space. And I think there's a ton of value to spending a little bit of time, like having any developer at some point in their career spend a little bit of time managing the backlog, and you will learn a bunch from that. But I'm also in the space of I would love to just turn on some music and code for a while. That sounds fun. There's a lot of work to be done right now. I'd love to just be in there doing the work. But sometimes, out of necessity, the defining of the work is the thing that's important. And so, I think I've been correctly assessing the most important thing. And that that has consistently for a while now been the defining and responding to the work that's in process as opposed to doing it myself. But, man, I really hope I get to dive back into the code sometime and use my clackety keyboard to its fullest extent. STEPH: Have you found any particular strategies that really help you with the product management work? CHRIS: I will say that I think this is a competency. This is a skillset and a career path that...again, I've been at plenty of organizations that I don't think respected the role as much as it should be. But it's an incredibly hard role and multidisciplinary communication at the core of it. And so I don't think I'm great at it is the thing that I'll say. So everything that follows is just to be clear; I'm not saying that I'm great at this, but I have been doing some of it. So here are some thoughts that I have. I think a lot of it is in reaction to where I felt like the work was clear. So I have a sense of what it looks like when I can go to the backlog, trust that it is in a roughly solid priority order, pick up a piece of work and immediately go to work on it. And understand what are the end-user implications of this piece of work? Where would I start on it like, how technically? What's a rough approach that I would have? And getting that level of specificity just right. So it's not overconstrained, but it's not under constrained. So having experienced that on the developer side, I try and then use that to shape some of the guidance that I'm putting into, say, the Trello tickets that I'm writing up here. We recently introduced Trello epics, which is I want to say like an add-on. And that allows us just the tiniest bit of product management, like one level up. So instead of just having cards and a list that is like, here's the work to be done, we now have an epics list that is separate to it, and it links between a card and its associated epics. So it's like project and action within that project. And just that little touch of structure there has been really, really useful to help look at like, okay, what are the big pieces that we're trying to move? And then how do they break down into the smaller pieces? So a tiny, tiny bit of fanciness in our product management tool, not Jira-like not going in that direction yet for as long as I cannot. But that little bit of structure. And then thinking about what has been useful to me as I pick up tickets. And then, as always, trying to just always be cognizant of what is the user's experience here? What problem am I trying to solve for them? What is their experience going to be? How will they know how to work with this feature? And just always asking that and then framing the work to be done in the context of that. STEPH: I like how you're adamant about a little bit of fanciness but not all the way to Jira-like. I also like how you highlighted end-users. All of that, I think, is awesome when developers are able to expand their role to experience all the other facets of building software. CHRIS: Yeah, definitely. I think that whole list of all of the different facets of where our work interacts with different groups. The more empathy or, the more experience that you can have there, the better that you'll be able to understand how to communicate there, how to express things in terms, et cetera, et cetera. So a huge fan of all of those ideas. I am ready to just get back in the code for a few minutes, though. But for now, for as long as necessary, I'll do some of this work. But I am trying to find my way to other things. In terms of actual feature work that we're working on, one of the things that we're doing right now is restructuring our onboarding. So when a user comes and signs up to the website and then subsequently has to fill out a handful of other forms, there's actually an external system that we've been working with that houses some of the core data of our application. And they have a hosted application form. So we can send the user over to them, and the user fills out the rest of the application on this other system's site. And then they get redirected back to us. And everything's got nice DNS entries for a particular subdomain and whatnot. So it looks roughly consistent. There's some branding. But it's still someone else's UI, essentially. And we were feeling enough pain from that experience. We were like; you know what? It's time. We're going to bring this back in-house. We're going to do all the forms ourselves. We're going to do a nice progressive little progress bar. You can see all the steps as you're going through onboarding. We're just going to own that more because that's a core part of the experience that we're building here. So biting the bullet, deciding to do that. But there's an interesting edge case that we run into, which is we are using Devise for authentication. Totally makes sense. We're in Rails context; there we go. It's the thing to use. But Devise exists in truly the Rails world. So like HTML ERB templates, the controllers have certain expectations as to what's going on. So thus far, we've just let that exist in that world and everything else we're building in Inertia and Svelte. But we're just now starting to feel enough of the pain, and that Devise exists in this other context. And for a while, we just kept saying, "You know what? It's not worth the effort to port it over. It's fine." Because we're using Tailwind, we have a consistent design language that we can use across them. That said, the components are drifting a little bit. And it's like, oh, this one's got a rounded corner like this, and that one's got this color. And we don't have the disabled style. But it is nice that it's not completely distinct. But we have finally decided it is time. We need to port this thing over because we feel like the onboarding and authentication type flows; they're actually a big part of the user experience or at least the first run user experience when someone's signing up to our site. So we want to own that a little bit more. One of the things that I ran into as I was trying to introduce Mailcheck, which is a library that I've talked about, I think in a previous episode...but basically, you can have it observe a field and if someone types in like, user@gmaip.com, you can like, did you mean gmail.com? And then go from there. And I think there's more subtlety. They can maybe even look up MX records and things like that. But basically validate an email address heuristically and offer the nice, very friendly to a user, "Hey, did you mean this instead?" So not a full validation that says, "No, you cannot put your email address," because maybe you have a weird one that sounds like Gmail but isn't. But that's a little bit trickier to implement both on the Devise side and then in any other place that we have an email input. And so what we want to do is port over to Inertia and Svelte, and then everything's in our nice, happy context with all our components and all the other work that we're doing. And it really does just highlight how much I've come to enjoy working with Inertia and Svelte. They are fantastic technologies. And now I just want absolutely everything to be in them. So we're finally going to bite the bullet, and I think port those over a little bit after we get the current batch of work done. But soon, soon, that's the goal. STEPH: I'm having a bit of déjà vu where I feel like there was a project that you were working on that was using Devise, and then removing Devise and replacing it with something else was a challenge. Does that ring a bell? CHRIS: Yes, that is accurate. So I had a project that I worked on where we had both Devise and Clearance was actually what was going on. There were basically two different applications that existed; one was using Clearance, the later one used Devise. But then we folded those two applications back together. And by virtue of that, I tried to unify the authentication schemes, and it was like, nope, not going to happen. And then we didn't. STEPH: And then we didn't. [laughs] I like that ending. CHRIS: Well, sometimes you don't. [laughs] STEPH: Yeah, I love that ending because it reflects reality. Sometimes that just happens. In fact, I'm going to segue for just a moment because you're reminding me that there's something I don't think I've shared with you yet. On my previous project, there was a particular feature. It was a big feature that someone had picked up and worked on. And at one point, we were essentially playing hot potato with this feature because we hadn't gotten it to the point that it was merged. There was too much that was happening in that pull request, although then we ended up merging it. But then we found lots of bugs. And it was just one of those features that we couldn't really get across the finish line. There was always something else that was wrong with it or needed to be done or needed to be considered. And we'd reach that point where Chad Pytel, who is on the project, was like, "We're either going to finish this, or we're going to throw it away." And I felt a little guilty saying this, and I was like, "I vote we throw it away. I have lots of concerns about this. We are essentially reimplementing another complex workflow. But now, we are implementing it pretty differently in another portion of the application. It's going to be hard to manage. The cost of adding this and maintaining this is a really high concern." And so he talked with the rest of the team and came back, and he's like, "Yep, we're going to throw it away." And so then he issued a PR, and we removed it. And it was one of those moments of like; this isn't great because then we have invested hours into this, and now we are taking it away. But it also felt really good that that's always an option. And that was the better option because it was either we're going to continue sinking more time into this, or we can stop it now. And then we can move on to more important work. CHRIS: Sunk costs and all that. STEPH: Yeah. I feel like it's so rare when that really happens because then we just feel dedicated to like, well, we're going to make this valuable to somebody. We're going to keep this. And in this case, we just threw it away. It's very nice. CHRIS: There's a similar anecdote that I remember. Actually, I think it's happened more than once. But very particularly, we were working on a system. And this was with our friend, Matt Sumner, a friend of the show, as well been on a few times. And Matt was working on the project. And we got to a point where we had two competing implementations of a given workflow, and we were opting to go with the new one. But there were folks that were saying, "Let's keep the code around for the old one." And Matt was like, "Absolutely not. If we do that, we might go...no, this will be bad. Then we have to maintain that code. We need to burn the ships," as he said. And he actually named the pull request burn the ships where he just removed all the code. And I was like, I like your style, man. You made a decision here. We collectively made a decision. And then this is a classic Matt Sumner move. But he did the thing that we said we were going to do. And he just held that line. And I really appreciated it. And it's a voice that I have in the back of my head often now, which is just like, no, burn the ships. If we need it, it'll be in Git history. We can recover it. But it's going to need to be handled in the interim. We don't want to have to support that code right now and for however long until we actually decide to remove it from the codebase. So let's get rid of it. And if we really need it, well, then we'll resurrect it, but for now, burn the ships. And I like that. STEPH: I like that too. I think it's one of those areas where it takes experience to feel that pain too. If you're pretty new to writing code, you're going to think, well, we can keep it around. There's no harm. And so it often has to be that sage, that person who's been around long enough and felt some pain from making that decision in prior centuries or years. And he's like, "No, we're not going to do this." The WE collective of developers who have experienced the pain from this understand that that's not a good choice. And so we're going to burn the ships instead. But it is one of those that if you're newer, you won't think that way. And I think that's totally reasonable that you wouldn't think that immediately. CHRIS: I think that tacit knowledge that oh, I've gone through this before, and I've experienced the pain, and now let me tell you about that. And let me try and share that with you because there's always the cost-benefit trade-off. Because if that code stays in the codebase, then we know it works because we've kept it around for that whole time. And so there's a nicety to that, but there's a cost, that maintenance cost. And being able to express that well and being able to say, "I've been here, and let me tell you a tale," but do it in a way that doesn't sound overly condescending or explainy or things like that. I think that's a very subtle skill and a very important one, and frankly, really hard one to get right. I'm not sure I always hit the mark on that where I'm just like, "No, can't do it. It's bad." I think it's very easy to end up in a space where you're just like, "No, it's bad." And they're like, "But why?" And you're like, "Because it's bad. Trust me." It's like, well, I feel like you do need to be able to explain the stories, the experiences that you've had in the past, the anecdotes that you've heard, the blog posts that you've read that have really informed your thinking. But I think that is a big part of what it means to continue on in this profession and be able to do the work and make those subtle trade-offs, and the it depends because, at the end of the day, it all depends. STEPH: Or you just issue a pull request and title it burn the ships. [laughs] CHRIS: Burn the ships. Indeed, that is, in fact an option. And actually, while we're on the topic of pull requests, this might be a perfect segue into a listener question that we have. Mid-roll Ad And now a quick break to hear from today's sponsor, Scout APM. Scout APM is leading-edge application performance monitoring that's designed to help Rails developers quickly find and fix performance issues without having to deal with the headache or overhead of enterprise platform feature bloat. With a developer-centric UI and tracing logic that ties bottlenecks to source code, you can quickly pinpoint and resolve those performance abnormalities like N+1 queries, slow database queries, memory bloat, and much more. Scout's real-time alerting and weekly digest emails let you rest easy knowing Scout's on watch and resolving performance issues before your customers ever see them. Scout has also launched its new error monitoring feature add-on for Python applications. Now you can connect your error reporting and application monitoring data on one platform. See for yourself why developers call Scout their best friend and try our error monitoring and APM free for 14 days; no credit card needed. And as an added-on bonus for Bike Shed listeners, Scout will donate $5 to the open-source project of your choice when you deploy. Learn more at scoutapm.com/bikeshed. That's scoutapm.com/bikeshed. CHRIS: As always, thanks to everyone who sends in listener questions. We so appreciate getting them. They help direct the conversation and give us something to chat about. So this question comes in from Bryan Robles. And Bryan writes in about large pull requests. And Bryan writes in with, "My toxic trait is large pull requests. Any tips on when you get into a place where you're fixing or refactoring something, and it ends up cascading to many more changes than you want it to? I sometimes can go back and break it up. But it's hard to recognize a good seam when you're in the thick of it." So, Steph, what do you think? Large pull requests and finding yourself in them after [laughs] certain amounts of time. STEPH: Yeah, speaking of that knowledge that often comes from experience, this is something that I'm certainly always striving to get better at. I think it does take practice. There are some things that I do that I can share. And I categorize them really into a before, and I guess midway. So there's the before I set sail and set off to deeper waters list that I will think through as I'm starting a new task, and then there's the I'm lost at sea. And then, I need to figure out how I'm going to organize this change. So in the first category, when I'm first starting off a task, I consider what sort of changes need to be made, and are there any obvious roadblocks? So an obvious roadblock may be changing or updating a model that has one relationship, and I need to change it to has many relationships. Or perhaps there's a part of the application that is untested. And before I make any changes, I need to document that existing behavior. And that really falls neatly within Kent Beck's advice where he said, "First make the change easy (warning: this might be hard) and then make the easy change." So I try to think upfront what are some of the small, incremental changes that I can make first that will then make the final change easy? And then I separate that mentally into PRs. Or I may separate it into tickets, whatever is going to help me stay organized and communicate how I'm breaking up that work. And then the other thing that I'll do is I'll consider what's my MVP? So what's my minimum viable pull request? What set of changes include just enough changes to be helpful to users or to other developers? Which, by the way, is also a helpful mindset to have when you're breaking down work into tickets. So, as an example, let's say that I need to fix some bad data that's causing a site to error. So my first step could be to write a task to fix the bad data. And then, step two, prevent bad data from being created. And then probably step three, I need to rerun the task to fix data that was created during step two. But I can think through each of those steps and separate them into different pull requests. And then there may also be the question of well, how small is too small? Like you're saying, what's a minimum viable pull request? How do I know if I am not delivering value? And that one gets a little trickier and vague. But ultimately, I will think, does it pass CI? Is this change deployable? And then I do have to define what value I'm delivering. And I think that's a common area that folks struggle because we'll think of delivering value as delivering a whole new feature or adding complete test coverage for an untested interface. But delivering value doesn't have to represent that end goal. It may be that you added one test for an untested interface. And that's still delivering really great value to your team, same for delivering a feature to a user. You may be able to speak with that wonderful product manager and find what's the smallest bit of value that you can deliver instead of the whole feature set? I think the smallest PR I can think of that I've issued is either fixing a typo or removing a focus metadata from an RSpec test. So that's my starting point. That's the before I set sail. Those are some of the things I think about. I have more for the I'm lost at sea. But what are your thoughts? CHRIS: First, that was a great summary that you gave. So I totally agree with everything that you just said. I think part of the question I would have...So Bryan wrote this in and described this as his toxic trait. So he's identifying this as something that seemingly consistently plagues him. So I would ask, is there a way that you can introduce something? Like, are there natural breaks in your day? And can you ask the question at those breaks? Like, hey, I've been working on a thing for a little while. Is there a version that I could...like, could I close off a body of work at this moment? When you break for lunch, if you go grab coffee in the morning, when you're leaving at the end of the day, use those natural breakpoints. I'm not sure exactly what you mean when you say large pull requests. But if those are spanning multiple days, in my mind, if anything starts to span more than a day, I will start to ask that question to myself. And that's a reflex that I built up over time by feeling the pain of large pull requests and putting it up, and feeling apologetic. And then having my colleagues gently, professionally kindly ask me to break it down into smaller pieces. And me saying, "I really don't want it. All right, fine, fine, fine, I'll do it." And then I do it. And it's one of those things that I never want to do in the first place, but I'm always happy to have done after the fact. But it is work. And so, if I can get better at pulling that thinking and pulling that question earlier in the process, that I think is really useful. Similarly, I will try to, again, as friendly as I can; if I notice someone mentioning the same body of work at stand up for a few days, I might gently ask, "Hey, is there a way that we can find a shippable version of a portion of that of a subset? Can we put it up behind a feature flag and get something out there just to try and keep the PR small, et cetera?" And so gently nudge in that direction. And then I think the other side of that is being very okay with one character PRs. Like, that's it. We changed one character. It turns out we need to pluralize that word, or we need one-line changes are great. That's fine. And more pull requests, in my mind, are better than fewer, larger pull requests. And so really embracing that and having that be part of the core conversation and demonstrating that throughout the team is a way to share this idea. So that's perhaps more in the process or person point of view on this as opposed to the technical, but that's part of the consideration that I would have. I am interested, and I'll bounce back to, Steph, what you were saying of now that you're out at sea, what do you do? STEPH: So I need to react positively to some of the things that you just said because you made me think of two things. One of them is I've never had someone say, "Hey, Steph, that PR is too small. Could you add some more changes to it? Could you do some more work?" I have had people say, "Hey, that PR was hard to review." But even then, sometimes getting that feedback from folks is hard because nobody really wants to say, "I had a hard time reviewing your PR." That's something that, over time, you may become really comfortable saying to someone. But I think initially, people don't want to say, "Hey, that was hard to review," or "There were a lot of changes in that. Would you break it down?" Because that's a lot of complex emotions and discussion to have there. But yeah, I just figured I'd share that I have never had someone complain that a PR is too small, and I've issued a single character change. And then I love, love how much you asked the question of what's the problem we're trying to solve? And so there's this ambiguous idea of a large PR. But what does that mean? What are the pain points? What are we actually looking to change about our behavior? And then how is that going to impact or benefit the team or benefit ourselves? And so, going back to the question of how do we measure this? How do I know I'm starting to break up my changes in a helpful way? We may need to circle back to that because I don't have answers to it. But I just really like asking that question. As for the I'm lost at sea part, or maybe you're not lost at sea, but you've caught too many fish, and the fish warden is going to fuss at you if you bring too many fish back to dock. I don't think this is a real nautical example. But here we are. CHRIS: Was that the fish warden? STEPH: Yeah, the fish warden. You know, the fish warden. [laughs] CHRIS: Sure, I do, yeah. Yeah, I know about that, well-versed in fish law. STEPH: [laughs] Got to know your fish law. If we're going to talk about pull requests, you got to introduce fish law. But I'm actually going to quote Joël Quenneville, a fellow thoughtboter, because they shared a thoughtful thread on Twitter that talks a lot about breaking up your changes and how to break up your pull requests and your commits. And I'll be sure to include a link in the show notes because it's really worth reading as there's a lot of knowledge in that thread. But one of the things that Joël says is get comfortable with Git, and it makes a world of difference. In particular, you want to get really good at git add --patch, git reset, and git rebase interactive. And that is so true for me. Once I have gotten really good at using those commands, then I feel like I can break up anything. Because often when I am helping someone break something up, it's often they want to, but they're like, "I don't know how. And this is going to take so much of my time. It doesn't feel efficient and the right thing to do." And they're probably right. If you don't know how to break it up, then it may take you too long. And maybe it's not worth it at that point. But if you can ask a friend, and they can help walk you through this process, or if you can learn on your own, that's going to be a game-changer because you will start to think about how can I separate these commits? And I can reorder them, and then issue separate PRs, or just keep them in separate commits, whatever process you're looking to improve. In fact, there's a really great course on Upcase called Mastering Git written by someone who is co-host of this podcast. And it has a lot of great videos and tutorials that will help you get really good at these Git commands and then will help you split up your commits. CHRIS: Oh yeah, I did do that. Warning: it's like three and a half hours long. But it is broken up into, I believe, 10 or 11 videos. So you can find just the ones that you want. There's a couple in the middle that I think are particularly useful talking about the object model of Git. Git is weird, unfortunately. And so I spent a bunch of time in that course. Also, thank you for the kind words, Steph. [laughs] But I spent a bunch of time in that course trying to make Git less weird or understandable. If you look under the hood, it starts to make more sense. But if you really want to get comfortable with manipulating Git history, which I think is a really useful skill for this conversation that we're having, that's the only way I found to do it, just memorizing the steps. It's always going to feel a little bit foreign. But once you understand the stuff under the hood, that's a really useful thing for being able to manipulate and tease apart a pull request and break it into different things, and port things from one branch to another, and all those fun activities. Yeah, man, that was a bunch of years ago too. I wonder what I look like in it. Huh. STEPH: I really liked that episode, the one you just mentioned, the Git Object Model. Now that you've mentioned it, I remember watching it, and it's very interesting. So yeah, thank you for making all this helpful content for folks. There's also a blog post that we can include in the show notes as well that is a really nice overview of using git interactive, and rebase, and squash and amend those types of behaviors as well. So will be sure to include both so folks can check those out. And then to round things out, one of the other things that I will do is I will ask a friend. I will ask someone for help. So we've talked about some of these behaviors, or some of these processes that we have are really built up from experience and practice. And you can watch a lot of helpful content, and you can read blog posts. But sometimes, it really just takes time to get good at it. I know, as I'd mentioned earlier, I am always still looking to improve this particular skill because I think it's so valuable. And one of the ways I do that is I will just phone a friend. And I'll say, "Hey, can we chat for a bit? I would like to show you my changes. I want to hear from you if you see something in here that's valuable that you think can be shipped independently, so that way we can get it delivered faster." Or it may be a change that's just like a test improvement or something. And we can go ahead and get that immediately released to the team, and it will benefit them. Or you may want to do this at the start of a ticket. If I am new to a project or when I am new to a project, I will often ask someone to break down a ticket with me if I'm feeling a little bit uncertain. Or just say, "Hey, do you see any clean lines of division here? I feel like there's a lot in this ticket. You're more familiar with the codebase. What would you ship? How would you ship this incrementally?" and have someone else walk through the process with you. CHRIS: Yep, the phone a friend and/or, as always, pairing is a wonderful tool in these sorts of situations. The one other thing that comes to mind for me is part of the question was about sometimes it's difficult to find a clear parting line within a larger body of work, within a larger change. And that can definitely be true. I think there are certain standouts of like is this a refactoring that can be shipped separately? Is this a test change that would be useful on its own? Is there a model change that we could break out and have just that go out? So there's a bunch of mechanical questions that we can ask and say; here's categories of things that might fit that bill. But to flip this to the other side, the question was asked by Bryan very much as an I struggle with this thing. This is my toxic trait is the phrase that he used, which I thought was really interesting. And that can be true. This can be something that if you're consistently and uniquely within the team producing these giant PRs and then folks find that difficult to review, then I think that is absolutely something to work on. But if this is something that is happening between members like, other members of the team are also finding that they keep ending up with PRs that are bigger than they expected and taking longer and harder to review, there is a question of is the codebase actually in a shape that makes it harder to do small changes? There's the phrase shotgun surgery, which refers to a codebase that is so entangled and coupled that any change requires modifying ten files just to make one small alteration. And I think that's a worthwhile question to step back and ask, actually, is it not me? Is it actually the codebase? It could be both certainly. But there is a version of your codebase is coupled in a way that means that any even small, tiny change requires touching so many different places in the code. And if that's true, that's at least worth naming and worth highlighting and maybe talking about in retro and saying, hey, this feels like it's true. So maybe we start to get intentional about refactoring, and breaking out, and starting to add those dividing lines within the code such that hopefully, down the road, small changes can, in fact, be small changes. So that is the one last thing that I would consider here. Also, anecdotally, this is just a thing that came to mind. As I've worked with strongly-typed languages, systems that have a compiler, and have a type system, and the ability for the compiler to keep an eye on the whole codebase, I've noticed that it's very easy to do this sort of thing where I just start with one small data model change, and then the compiler is like, oh, you got to go fix it here, and here, and here, and here. And I found that because the compiler is your friend and will just point you to all the places you need to make the change, it is very easy to just keep going because some of that mechanical work is happening on your behalf. And it's a wonderful facet of typed languages and of having a compiler and being able to have that conversation with the compiler. But I found that for me, it is much easier to end up in this mode where I'm like, oh no, this PR is way too large. When I'm working in a system that has types, that has a compiler, that frankly makes it a little bit easier to chase down all the places you need to make a change. So that's also a consideration. It's not necessarily a good or a bad thing, just something that I've observed that feels like it's adjacent to this conversation. But yeah, I think those are my thoughts. STEPH: Yeah, those are great points. I've certainly worked on projects where that felt very true where it's a small change, but it would cascade throughout the project. And all the changes were necessary. It wasn't something that I could split into smaller PRs. So checking if it is the codebase that's really making it hard to have small PRS is a really great idea. CHRIS: Who'd have thunk such a little question could get us rambling for so long? Oh, wait, I would have thunk that. STEPH: And so far, reflecting on the things that we've talked about so far, I think I've talked a good game of where I'm saying, "Oh, I identify the seams upfront, and then I organize and create different tickets." And that is very much not the case. That's the really ideal outcome. But often, I am in the thick of things where like you just said...and it's this moment of, oh, I've done a lot in this PR. And how can I break this up? And that does take time. And it becomes a conversation of trade-off, which is why those Git skills really come in handy because then it will lower the cost of then splitting things out for others. But for people that are struggling with creating smaller PRs, I do think it's very fair to ask your team for help. I think it's also fair that if you issued a large pull request and folks have already reviewed it, and it's gotten approved, and someone makes a comment like, "Oh, this would be great as two PRs instead of one," to say, "Awesome, thank you for letting me know. I will take that forward with me, but I'm not going to do it for this PR." I wouldn't recommend making that a habit. But just know that that is something that you can say to someone to say, "I think this one is good to go at this point. But I will keep that in mind for future PRs. And I may even reach out to you for help if I feel like I'm having trouble splitting up a PR." And bring that person into your progress and use them as an accountability buddy. They can be someone that helps you down that path towards smaller PRs. CHRIS: Yeah, I definitely agree with that, although it becomes a very subtle line. Saying, "Thank you, but no thank you," in a pull request or to feedback is delicate. It's difficult. That's a whole thing. But I agree there have been times where I have either been the one making that decision or suggesting that or being like, "We probably should have broken this up. But we're far enough along now. Let's get this merged. And then we'll iterate on it after the fact." One last thing, actually. I thought I was done, but I have one more thing, which is I feel like there's a strong parallel between test-driven development and this question in that, often, I hear folks saying, "I don't know how to write tests upfront. I don't know how to do that. I know after the fact I can write tests, and I can add them after." And that can definitely be true. It can become more obvious after you've written the code how you could then write a test that would constrain that behavior that would interact with the system. But I think the useful thing that you can do there is take a moment and pause there and say, "Okay, now that I have written the test, what would it look like if I had written this in the first place?" Or if you really want to go for it, throw away the code, try again. Start with the test first and then rebuild it. That's maybe a little much. But that thing of taking these moments of maybe you don't know upfront how to break the work into smaller pieces, but then you get to the end, and you have that conversation with someone. And they highlight where some parting lines would be, or you figure it out after the fact. Stay there in that moment. Meditate on it a bit and try and internalize that knowledge because that's how moving forward, you might know how to do this in the future. So take those moments, whether it be with TDD or with pull requests, or breaking up a ticket into smaller tickets, anything like that. And spend a moment there and try and internalize that knowledge so that you have it proactively moving forward. STEPH: You know how Slack has status? I really like the idea of there being a status that's meditating on...and you can fill it in. And the example that you just provided, meditating on splitting up a pull request or meditating on how to write a test first, [laughs] I think that would be delightful. CHRIS: I, too, think that would be delightful. But with that long, adventurous answer to what seemed like a simple question, and they always do, but here we are, shall we wrap up? STEPH: Let's wrap up. CHRIS: The show notes for this episode can be found at bikeshed.fm. STEPH: This show is produced and edited by Mandy Moore. CHRIS: If you enjoyed listening, one really easy way to support the show is to leave us a quick rating or even a review in iTunes, as it really helps other folks find the show. STEPH: If you have any feedback for this or any of our other episodes, you can reach us at @_bikeshed or reach me on Twitter @SViccari. CHRIS: And I'm @christoomey STEPH: Or you can reach us at hosts@bikeshed.fm via email. CHRIS: Thanks so much for listening to The Bike Shed, and we'll see you next week. All: Byeeeeeeeeeee! Announcer: This podcast was brought to you by thoughtbot. thoughtbot is your expert design and development partner. Let's make your product and team a success.

I Survived Theatre School

Intro: Boz deserves a seat at the table, life coaches, let's be directLet Me Run This By You: Gina versus plots - is it just ADD? Interview: We talk to Kate Dugan about living in Morocco, her playwriting program,  Sandy Shinner, Victory Gardens, shooting yourself in the foot, being ready or not to take advantage of opportunities, Outliers, regret, Sandra Delgado, the Bad Boyfriend years, Austin Film Festival, Ola Rotimi, Actor's Training Center, Meisner, Erica Daniels, Bikram yogaFULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited): 1 (8s):And Jen Bosworth from me this and I'm Gina Polizzi. We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet? Not a whole hell of a lot. I mean, I'm, I feel I'm right. I just real, really excited to like level up my, my work life game. Like, it doesn't even mean that I, it just means that, like, I actually feel like an adult, like I just feel at 47 right now.1 (55s):I'm 47. I feel at 47. Like I'm ready. Oh girl. Wait, am I 40? No, I had a birthday. October four. Yeah. You turned 40 you're you're you're desperate to be older apparently. Oh, I've been telling people 47. Okay. So what year were you born? 75, but I'm terrible at math for 46 years. Okay. So what was I saying about being the wrong age? Oh, I just feel like at 46, right? That's my age at 46. I am finally ready to get a job, like, okay. I need a writing job, like a, B a real job, a real job of like, of like, I feel like I finally deserve, I just, I'm starting to feel like I finally deserve a seat at the table.1 (1m 47s):I love that. Yeah, I definitely do. Yeah. I mean, I just do deserve it, but like the world needs for you to have that seat at the table. Thank you. And I finally feel like that is a possibility, you know, it's interesting. And I was going to ask you about this. So there are all these Clem coaches in Los Angeles. Oh, that's funny. I was going to ask you if something about coaches, but go ahead. Okay, great. So, so God bless him and I can just see everyone is really trying to earn a living, right? So like, everyone I meet is trying to help. I know a lot of hustlers, right?1 (2m 28s):So coaches now have this language. It's fantastic. First time a coach uses language with me. I thought it was so cool. And I was so special. They all fucking use this language. Good ones, bad ones, whatever. Okay. So they get to the part. I had a free introductory session with a woman who was wonderful, nothing wrong with her. I'm talking about specific coaching language around payment and charging people talking about the fee. Okay. So therapists my in my, you know, the way it was, well, I also worked for a social service agency. So I could like just people please, my way out of it and say, well, the agency charges this, you know, all of this. Okay.1 (3m 8s):But for all the people I've seen as therapists, they're pretty straightforward. They're like, my fee is 180 an hour. This is how much your copay would. I looked up your insurance, whatever coaches have a whole nother situation where they say things like, I don't usually do this. This is what they say more than one coach say this to me. I don't usually do this, but I'm going to do something I don't normally do, which is I'm gonna let you set your fee. How much is this worth to you?2 (3m 36s):Oh God. Oh fuck you. What kind1 (3m 39s):Of invest?2 (3m 40s):$7 and 50 cents.1 (3m 42s):What kind of investment are you willing to make in your future? Whatever, whatever they get. And then2 (3m 51s):If you low ball it, it's like, well, I guess you're not recommend it to your future,1 (3m 54s):Right. Or, and you must not value. You must not yet. Right? You must not think that you're abundant enough to bring it the way. So the first time someone said this to me, I was like, this is brilliant. Like I totally, and I bought in and I was like, and I, and, and I didn't know. I was like, okay, you know, $80 a session. And then she later, and then we did that for a while later, she told me that she charges like $2,000 for, oh my God. Like a packet. And I was like, what? Okay, so right. Okay. This person did not do this the other day. I had a free introductory session. And she said that, you know, when she's a woman of color and I really adore her, but it was the same language.1 (4m 38s):And it's not, it's what they're trained to say. And so I just am, so I was so naive. I thought this was like such a cool thing. And now I'm like, wait, everyone's using the same thing, which is, I'm going to let you set your fee to tell me how much you are invested in yourself. And I'm like, wait, that's manipulative. Just set your fucking fee. And if I just said fan, and if I don't pay it, I don't pay it. And we don't work together because otherwise2 (5m 7s):You're setting up the road. I mean, setting up the dynamic where somebody is going to feel resentful, right? Like if, if you're the coach and you're not charging what you, what you think you're. I mean, what about that? Why wouldn't you turn it back on them and say like, well, I really rely upon providers to tell me what they think they're worth by having an established fee. I mean, this is, it's so crazy. It's, it's like saying actually I've had this before with, I can't think maybe babysitters, like how much you charge. Well, whatever you feel comfortable with, I don't know what to do with that. Like, I mean, I feel comfortable paying you nothing. Does that mean that's what you want to,1 (5m 48s):Right? This is what we get in trouble with when, whenever there's a barter situation as well. Like I remember, oh my God, my dad is a anyway. I remember a psychologist getting into huge trouble at a friend, my dad's friend for bartering with therapy.2 (6m 7s):Oh my God. Like, make me homemade tofu or something like1 (6m 11s):Similar, like out, like you do my yard work. I'll do. I mean, I mean, like you get into trouble. It leads to trouble. I think it's better to be out of vagueness, set your fee and not, and just say, this is my fee. And if someone wants to have a conversation about the fee and do you lower it, and then you have a further conversation, whether you decide to lower it or not is up to you. But like, yeah, I don't like this, this,2 (6m 39s):No. And let's just be direct. I mean, this is another problem that we have, like with just, I don't know, globally with communication. I just feel like people are so darn indirect and it doesn't help. I'm not, I'm not suggesting that like, I can't use more, you know, finesse or be half softer or whatever. But like at the end of the day, I just want to know what it is. You're trying to say to me, you know, and I don't want to guess about it because I'm going to guess wrong. And then you're going to feel a type of way about it. And it's unnecessary.1 (7m 12s):It's unnecessary. And I do, you know, as much as, as much as I, I always think back, I had a therapist at the, at Austin Riggs in Massachusetts and Stockbridge and Dr. Craig Pierce. Right. And he, it was interesting. I wanted to call him Dr. Craig. And he was like, no, that is not my name. And, and I was like, this guy is such a douche, but really he was setting a boundary saying, no, no, no, no, no. I'm not your friend. I'm actually not your dad. I'm not your, this isn't, we're working. We're doing serious work here. And it's either Craig or Dr. Pierce, but you can't. And at the time I was like 21 or something. I don't know what I was, but I thought what a douche, but now I'm like, oh, he actually was, was trying to help me.2 (8m 1s):Let's just get this out of the way. This is how I expect to be referred to this is how much I expect to be paid. My thing about coaches recently is I feel like everybody is doing this group delusion about, like, we can't go to therapy. So we have to say, I mean, we could pay more for a coach than we might for a therapist. We could be more revealing with a coach that we were therapists. It's just turned into the stigma of like, well, I don't want to go to therapy, but you know, I want to have a coach. And the problem with that is it's so wildly unregulated.1 (8m 34s):Yes,2 (8m 34s):Exactly. If anybody can call themselves a coach,1 (8m 37s):Right. And even this, this coach that I saw was like, yeah, it's wild Lynn regulated. And I understand that, you know, so, so there are some, you know, weird coaches and she's lovely and she's trying to make a living. The other thing that is so clear to me is everyone is trying to make a living. So there is right. Everyone's trying, I give them points for trying, like you she's trying to have a coaching business. So, so right. I don't fault her for it, but I did. I was like, so shocked that the language, I was like, oh, here we go. She's going to say the exact thing that this other coach said. So, duh, there's all kinds of like classes that for free structure that could the coaches taste.1 (9m 24s):Are you going to see her again? I mean, I'm not, no, no, no, no, no. I told her, I was like, you know, I'm just really not in a position to do coaching right now. And I'm not, I have a therapy. I have a new therapist. Let me just pay the therapist who told me what our fee was. So it was interesting. The other thing that I think was interesting is like I took, the reason I met this coach was I took a workshop on a free workshop on imposter syndrome, which is another like thing that people are really throwing around now is imposter syndrome. And self-sabotage those kinds of phrases. So I took an imposter syndrome workshop, lovely workshop. And then they said, you know, we're going to have a raffle and see who gets a free coaching session.1 (10m 5s):Well, we all, did. We all won the RAF. I mean,2 (10m 14s):Oh my God. I mean, is everything a play Like a performance piece in Los Angeles?1 (10m 24s):Yeah, it is. It is. And it's so, it's so funny, but like, so yeah, I was talking to my friend, I'm like, who went to the workshop? I'm like, oh, I won the I wasn't coaching says, she goes, so did I? And then I talked to someone else who I met when I networked with like soda. I was like,2 (10m 40s):I really respect how much it seems like people in LA are devoted to self-improvement. I really, really respect that in a way that I just feel like people out here aren't or if they are, they don't talk about it. Maybe it's what it is. But it does seem, it does seem like people in LA are either they're on a health kick or a mental health kick or they're, you know, getting sober or I just feel like there's a lot of, there's a lot of1 (11m 5s):Types here.2 (11m 8s):And I appreciate the fact that everybody talks about that openly. Because if, if people are into that stuff around here, they don't talk about it. So I ended up feeling like, you know, I'm a weirdo.1 (11m 19s):I feel like it's like, like literally like old money versus new money. I swear to God it's like old, old paradigms versus new paradigms. And like, yeah, it's out in the open here, everyone's on some kick, but at the same time, it's also lessened because everybody's talking about it all the time and it becomes like the, like a F like a farce, like not sacred in any way. It's like,2 (11m 47s):Yeah. And I bet there's a lot of people who are doing the most, like in terms of self-help and they're just still the biggest, or they're just lying to themselves about the fact that they're, they feel like they're getting better, but they're really just haven't changed at all. Yeah. I mean, I think that like, living anywhere is a problem. Well, let me get out of here. I feel like, wow, you can really feel the Puritan vibe. I mean, it's yes. You really it's like, we don't talk about feelings. We, we talk about things on the surface. We don't reveal, you know, very much about ourselves. Wow. Yeah. Keep everything. It's all, it's very buttoned up.2 (12m 27s):Wow. When I first moved here, I really appreciated that, you know, I've done some wild swings geographically, like yeah. Growing up in Sacramento was kind of one sort of thing unto itself that doesn't relate that much to California. Yeah. And then going to Chicago was like, oh, okay. I like this. These people are really down to earth. You know, then I got kind of sick of that. And then I moved to back to California, to the bay area. And I really was into that for awhile. And then I felt like, oh my God, this is all. So this is all bullshit. Like talking about everybody was an imposter. I felt like everybody was low key. So aggro. And then just this hippie, you know, talking about free level the time.2 (13m 8s):And then we moved to New York and I was like, oh, people will just get right to the point here. I really appreciate that. And I never got tired of that, but then we moved here and I thought, oh, this is new England. This is what the pilgrims they've decided a way to be. And it's very buttoned up and they haven't changed in, you know, 300 years. For, you know, have like a little ideas folder in my notes where I just make it little snippets of ideas and write them down. And I've had like six or seven that I realized are all circling around the same idea, which is, I want to have a movie or some, or some type of a script where it's a superhero, but the superhero, their power is that they can interact through some type of magic.2 (14m 8s):They can intervene in somebody else's life when they're making bad decisions. This is sort of romantic coaching and like, Hmm, maybe it's virtual reality, but they, they can kind of put themselves into the body of the person who's making the bad decisions and then help them. You know, it's like, it's basically like the therapist having none of the barriers to, you know, wellness or whatever, and just kind of getting right in there at the same time as this is a comment about how we look to other people to tell us how to behave. Anyway, the superheroes name is psyche and I love it. And, and I'm, I'm it, I'm it.2 (14m 49s):I want to kind of continue with this idea, but I am woefully terrible with plot, as I think we've talked about before. I don't know if you're talking about the podcast before and it's such a, it makes perfect sense that my given my own psychology, that plot would be the hardest thing,1 (15m 11s):Because more that,2 (15m 13s):Well, my, my mother is the first person to tell you, she's never done anything with a plan. She's always just reacted to whatever has come her way. In fact, the idea of like having a goal and working towards it was literally something I never learned until I met my husband. Wow. When like a week, a day. And he was like, what are you going to do today? And I said, oh, I think I'm going to sit out in the sun. And he said, what? I thought you were trying to be an actress. I thought you were like, well, you don't have any time to sit down and do anything. Like you have a goal. And that, and that's been my thing is like, I, I have these vague undefined or have had vague undefined goals yet that in some ways I'm working towards, but because there's no sort of master plan or not a conscious one, if don't know how to get from a, to B to C I know everything about what it looks like as you're traveling from a to B to C, I had to describe it and everything like that.2 (16m 10s):But as far as charting a course of like, this is where I'm starting, and this is where I'm going to end up. That's pretty new to me. And I feel like that's why I struggle with clot. Cause I just don't have like a lot of idea of how something unfolds.1 (16m 26s):Seriously. Literally just ADHD. Could that be,2 (16m 30s):Oh, maybe you have ADHD.1 (16m 33s):Did we talk about2 (16m 33s):This? I have add1 (16m 36s):Or add. So if you have that, this is when I talk to writers who have add that this is their exact situation. Oh, okay. Excellent. With dialogue, excellent. With everything except the actual plot pointing to a, to B, to C you just, I think you just need a class in some add meds. Like I'm serious. I, I don't think, Hey, this is not a, this is, this could be a very practical thing. So, so my father had some big problems, but was a brilliant man in a lot of ways, right? His dissertation, he could see the whole thing where it was going to end up.1 (17m 16s):He knew what he wanted people to feel when he read it. He knew he could not write the thing. So my mother ended up writing it for him. Please don't take your degree away possibly anyway, because he couldn't do the, the actual thing. So I I'm wondering, just like my thing was kind of practical of finding a coworking space and not getting a divorce kind of a situation like yours is literally like, could be a physiological response to too much stimuli going on and how to get to, to your vision. So, and maybe2 (17m 54s):I need a coach.1 (17m 56s):Well, Gina funny, you should bring that up because I was going to say to you, how much is it worth for? You know, I tried to tell you as being your coach on our pocket,2 (18m 6s):That would have been so slick. That would have been like, you're like, I, wasn't going to mention this to you, but I'm actually becoming okay.1 (18m 12s):I'm actually a coach now. So anyway, that is my 2 cents. When you start saying, when you start talking about that, I was like, wait a second. This is not a psychological problem. I don't think,2 (18m 25s):Okay. I mean, you know what? That sounds right to me.1 (18m 29s):Well, it makes a lot of work. You're not lazy and you're not, it's not like you don't have ambition. That's not true because you we've talked a lot on the podcast about how, like having some sense of power is really important to you. Maybe not fame, but power, the power that comes with that. So I'm like, all right, so that's not someone that has no ambition, right? So that's gotta be a different mechanism in the brain. That's not connecting in some way because you're also a people pleaser. So if someone, so my guess is if I w I would wonder if we did an experiment, like if you were in a class, right. And the class person was the teacher, the person in authority was like, and you trusted this person or mentor, whoever writing group, whatever the higher power is in that moment said, she said to you, Gita, you must do, you know, act one must be written by this date.1 (19m 18s):I wonder if you do it,2 (19m 20s):I would, I totally would. In fact, that's a part of me has been like, should I try to get into an MFA program? I don't think that's the answer. I class first just take a class,1 (19m 31s):The script anatomy, there's all these classes that like, that we can talk about later, but like take a class. I know I should have taken a class and not enrolled in an MFA program. Like that was what I, I mean, it was,2 (19m 44s):Can I tell you one of my favorite slash least favorite things in the world is when I have a big problem. And the answer is like, something really is. I both love and hate that. I hate it because I think, wow, why didn't I think of that? And why have I spent so much time just like ruminating and cogitating and wringing my hands about something that has like a pretty straightforward answer. Yeah.1 (20m 6s):And a lot of times, a lot of times us, I think kids that weren't really, for whatever reason, didn't get what they needed, emotionally, make all these things. Our brain works overtime to try to figure things out when this solution, like, I remember, like when I started having panic attacks, I thought I had schizophrenia. I thought I went to the doctor. He's like, you have a panic disorder, take this pill. And I was like, what? Yeah.2 (20m 31s):How could it be that easy? How could it be? How could it be? I feel like in that if I were in your shoes, I would think, no, no, no, I don't just have something that everybody else has. I have a truly unique, right. Is that what you were feeling?1 (20m 44s):Yeah. I thought I was going to end up in a state run nursing and I had a panic disorder. It was so I couldn't, and I think it gets wrapped up in shame and wrapped up and I should be able to, I could be, you know, all that shit, but yeah, it, it, it was like, he was like, no, no, no, no, you have something called a panic disorder. It's in this book and it was a DSM. He was like, it's in this book. And he read the, the stuff, the criteria. And I was like, I had that. He was like, no shit. Which is why I'm telling you to take this pill, the Zoloft. And I was like, wow, it didn't even cross my mind. The other thing is, nobody tells you about it. Like a lot of the struggle that we have, I think at, or at least that I have is internal. Right. So I don't, I'm not sharing it with people, which is why I think the podcast is good because maybe someone's listening to the podcast going, oh fuck.1 (21m 29s):Maybe I just have a panic disorder or maybe I have add, or I need a class instead of my life is over.2 (21m 36s):I'm terrible. I'm fundamentally incapable of getting any better. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Totally. Well, thank you for that. What a gift1 (21m 42s):You gave me? Well, yeah, that's just what came forward. I'm like, wait, this is not a psychological weirdo, psychological pathological emotional problem.0 (21m 55s):Well,4 (22m 0s):Today on the podcast, we're talking to Kate, Dougan a playwriting major from DePaul theater school who currently lives in Morocco, where she teaches English. She is also a performer and has some interesting stories about her road from wanting to be a performer to deciding, to be a writer. So please enjoy our conversation with Kate Dougan2 (22m 27s):Oh my God. You haven't changed you one1 (22m 30s):Tiny bit. Let's say.3 (22m 34s):Thanks. Wow. Nice to see you girls. Do you guys look the same? I can't believe it. 30 years almost, right?2 (22m 41s):Yeah. Don't say it like that.3 (22m 43s): sorry. It's been 30 years since I graduated from high school. 25, since I graduated from college.1 (22m 53s):It's a long2 (22m 54s):You go by Kate.3 (22m 55s):Yeah. I go by Kate now. I grew up from Katie. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Yeah.2 (23m 3s):Well, Kate Dougan congratulations used for five to theater3 (23m 7s):School. I did. I did.2 (23m 10s):You are now in of all places, Morocco, what the heck's going on in Morocco?3 (23m 15s):I'm teaching a high school here at an American high school. Yeah. My husband is Moroccan. So that's how we ended up here. We met in Chicago, worked together and in 2018. Yeah. We just decided it was, you know, he, his parents are, you know, getting a little older and he had not lived in Morocco for about 20, 25 years. And so he decided, you know, he wanted maybe try to come home for a little while. And so he got a job at an American high school. He's a teacher, he's a math teacher. And so we came and then I, I started sort of in one job that didn't really work for me.3 (24m 2s):Cause I initially thought like I was coming to teach theater. Always. The reality is never quite the same as what everybody says is gonna happen. And so, but when we got here, so I tried to teach a theater class, it didn't school wasn't quite ready for it. Then I sort of morphed into teaching English as a second language. And then last year during, well, during 20 19, 20, 20, I got my teaching accreditation to teach high school English. So I teach English language and literature. So yeah. Yeah. How cool do you like it? I do, actually.3 (24m 43s):I like it a lot. I, you know, everybody says the teaching is the hardest job and in many ways, teaching really is the hardest job. Like you, it's a lot of work and it's kind of, it's almost like doing like five shows a day, but you have to write all of your own material and learn all of your own material. And you know, it, it, you have to sort of, you have to really be ready for like a group of high school kids. I mean, these are, you know, they, they want to be engaged and they want to be entertained and they want to, you know, and if you can do those things and talk to the kids and be real with them, then you know, it works.3 (25m 28s):And on days that you're not quite up for it, it's a little tough. But yeah, I do like it a lot. I mean, I think that if you like to be in the room with the kids, then, then you you're, you're going to win, you know? Yeah. There's, I think that there's unfortunately, a lot of teachers who don't necessarily like children. And so you kind of questioned that sometimes. I'm sure we've all had experiences as students in that kind of situation. But yeah, I liked the kids. I liked being with high school kids, you know, they're alive and interested and you know, they haven't given up yet.3 (26m 11s):It's true. There, there, I read something to them the other day about, yeah, they're not dead yet. They're still alive. So that's, that's what I like about it.1 (26m 21s):The other thing I was going to say is that my, my mom was a teacher and she used to say the first year of teaching, like full-time was the hardest year of her life. And she like cried every day after school and it was the most rewarding. And so I, yeah, yeah.3 (26m 39s):I mean, my first year was 2019 or 20. So 2019 to 2020, I was doing my accreditation and I was teaching part-time and that was March, 2020, obviously it was all online. And then September, we started back, it was my first year teaching full time. And, you know, we had one class that was online and then everybody, you know, the kids had the option to be online if they wanted to. So there was one class online and then there were students in school and yeah, you're just trying to, you know, learn, figure out what you're doing and teach yourself the material and, you know, stay alive and handle whatever it was.3 (27m 20s):It was, it was a very stressful year. Last year I got to the, I got to June and I was really tired and really stressed out. And I just, you know, the good part of that is I have declared this year. I will never let myself get into that state again, you know, whatever I have to do to maintain my balance is really important to me. And so far it seems to be working. I I'm feeling much more on top of things this year, so. Oh, good. Yeah. Yeah.2 (27m 55s):So beef, let's talk about the period of time you decided to go to theater school. You did, you caught up on the east coast.3 (28m 7s):Yeah. I, well, not exactly. I'm from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. I know. I always thought of it as east coast. And then years later I was like, I think Pittsburgh is really Midwest. Like, I mean, it's, it's like this close to Ohio where I was from was like this close to West Virginia. So there's a whole other element going on. So it almost, you know, it is east coast, I guess, officially, but it has sort of a Midwest sort of feel like blue collar, you know, town, but yeah, so I grew up in Pittsburgh. I, I don't know.3 (28m 48s):Do you guys just want me to do grow2 (28m 49s):Performing and I do high school plays3 (28m 52s):And stuff. Okay. So not, not as much as I would've liked. I knew from a very young age that I did want to go into theater. We, we lived up the hill from a small college Washington and Jefferson college. I'm from Washington, Pennsylvania. And you know, they built a new like art center one year. And I remember going to see my first theater show there and it had just opened. And I think it was the Rainmaker. I think my dad knew the guy, the place Starbuck, and I just, you know, like, so we want to see the play and it was just the whole experience of it, you know, going to the theater and sitting in the audience and the lights and the people.3 (29m 36s):And I just remember like when the lights went down at the, at the end, I was just like, that's what I wanna do. I wanna do this, you know, how old were you? I was eight actually. So I, yeah, it got me at an early age. I wish I had gotten set on something else a little bit. But1 (30m 0s):Why Did the theater break your heart?3 (30m 5s):Ah, did the theater break? My heart? Well, I mean, it's, you know, it's, everybody's journey is different. Yeah. I mean, in some ways it's not that it broke my heart now. I feel like I just wish I had no, of course. I mean, I wouldn't change anything. I wouldn't change the trajectory. I wouldn't change that love, you know, like that feeling. But I think just like when you experience something like that, it's such a young age, like your mind gets like really set on that thing. And like, I think it's important to grow and change and you know, obviously I've done that and I've done other things.3 (30m 46s):It just, I don't know. No, because I don't wish it was really different. So I, but I, you know, we all have our moments, right. I'm sure. Of course.1 (30m 57s):Yeah. That's what this whole podcast is about where we were like, what the fuck was that? And theater broke my heart over and over again. I thought it was going to be one thing or the business and I, it was not that thing. So I, for me, it's been a off and on heartbreaking experience with the theater. And that doesn't mean that there hasn't been intense love to, you know what I mean? Like, I think it's all part of the same, but yeah. So you, you, from a young age, you were like, you saw Rainmaker and you were like, that's it? Yeah.3 (31m 25s):So that's what I want to do. And so, I mean, but like I said, it was a small town there wasn't like a whole lot going on there. I never really took any acting classes or anything until I was in high school. You know, I went like there was a, there was an acting teacher at my high school. And I just remember like going to her class and being like super excited to finally like, get to do this thing. And like, you know, she asked everybody to kind of give a spiel like about what they want to do. And so I talked about it. I was like, this is really what I want to do with my life. I'm really excited about it. I, I just, you know, this is it for me.3 (32m 6s):And, and I just remember her, like, it wasn't necessarily that day, but like at some point she just kind of looked at me and she was like, oh, you're the one that wants to be an actress. And it was like that first, like, I'm sure you guys have experienced this. It was like that first experience of like, oh, I guess like me being excited about it, isn't necessarily going to get people to be positive with me. There was certain that there was an element of bitterness, I guess, which I think happens to people, you know, and I think it happens justifiably.3 (32m 53s):And so I think, you know, it's very important to me that I don't become bitter that I, and I'm glad I haven't, but I, I felt it was a very, it was like that first experience, like, okay, this is somebody that I, I, this is something I want to do. And this is somebody that can help me. And she was just not very enthusiastic about being helpful to me, you know, like, yeah. Who knows I was, it was kind of a weird year for me. So maybe I, you know, wasn't a very good student or something, or maybe she,1 (33m 25s):She, she, that's a shitty you you're probably right on. No, no, because I know because I've done that to people. Actually, I, I feel like I've dampened peoples. I do this with my husband all the time where I rain on his parade. And she rained on your parade a little bit. I'm not saying it's not that she doesn't have good reason to rain grades, but she did. And that, that is sort of, we hear it a lot. So I would think for someone to either either blatantly or inadvertently reign on a youngster's parade in terms of their artistic dreams.3 (33m 57s):So like at high school, I wasn't really that, like, I, I think I, we did like a play for my English class or something. So I don't know. I, I try, like I was in speech and debate and I went to one meet. And let me tell you like the power of the mind. Like I got laryngitis that day. Like I got laryngitis on the bus on the way to the meet and couldn't talk all day. And then on the bus on the way home I was able to speak. And so, you know, I think, you know, there's, yeah. I mean, that's a, that's a whole other . I mean, does that mean you1 (34m 37s):Didn't keep going with speech and debate3 (34m 39s):Or you had no, I don't think I did. I don't really remember. I obviously it was not a huge part of my life because I think at some point I was like, okay, this is not the person that's going to help me. I'm not getting feeling very positive vibes here. And so I'm gonna try to, you know, do other things. So then I started taking acting classes.1 (34m 60s):Did she wait to interrupt? Did she run the speech and debate thing too?3 (35m 3s):Yes, she did. Oh, no.1 (35m 5s):So that's, I mean, there you go. I mean, that's3 (35m 8s):How my mom1 (35m 9s):Running.3 (35m 11s):Yeah. Who knows. Anyway, so then I started going to like taking acting classes in downtown Pittsburgh. There was the civic light opera, and they had like an academy of, it was musical theater, but I just took straight acting classes. I was never like really a singer or anything like that. And that was a really positive experience for me. I had a great teacher, Jill, and, you know, we did a lot of scene study and she was, she was the opposite, you know, she was a very positive person, very loving and sweet. And, you know, really, you made me feel good about what I was doing and what I could do.3 (35m 52s):So, you know, there are those people as well that, you know,2 (35m 57s):Who suggested that you could pursue it for college.3 (36m 5s):I mean, I think it was never, for me, it was just never a question like, but I long story, I didn't, I didn't, I wasn't in the acting program at DePaul, I was in the play. I was in the wait. I was in the, I was in the playwriting program. Yeah.2 (36m 27s):Why do I remember you as being in class with me? But I feel like I remember you as being one of the actors. I remember seeing you on Steve.3 (36m 38s):No, I, I, I doubt it. I, I, unless2 (36m 42s):Were you in a play onstage?3 (36m 44s):I don't think so. No. I mean, unless it was like some kind of workshop for one of my plays or something like that, but no,2 (36m 54s):I mean, do you remember me at all? I3 (36m 56s):Do remember. Yeah. I remember you guys. I remember you completely. I just, so I think I graduated. I was a year older than you guys. I think. When did you graduate? I graduated in 96. Okay. So yeah, one year older. You will, so, okay, go ahead.2 (37m 14s):Awesome. Yeah, that happened. What the hell?3 (37m 19s):Well, let me, let me dial back to, to where, cause you asked me if my teacher wanted me to go to college and for me, like there was just no other, I was going to school for theater and there was no stopping me. You know, it was funny. I've listened to some of your podcasts and, and I listened to Caitlin Kiernan's and she was just like, you know, I was 18. Like, what do you, you know, like what did I think? I don't know, but I just, this is what my mind was set on. So, so I'm sure she, she, I remember her telling me that that acting teacher, she was like of all of my, you know, she put me aside and this one other girl, Heather, who I think has actually done pretty well. I think she lives in LA and you know, there's not a lot of TV work.3 (38m 0s):And she was like, you know, she's like of my students. I think you guys have real potential to make something in this business. So she was very positive. So then I started auditioning. I auditioned for probably not enough schools. I should've heard DePaul and like Carnegie Mellon and I think some other, a couple of other schools. And so then I kind of had my mind set in Chicago. My brother lived in Chicago for a couple of years and I had gone to visit him. And I just really like fell in love with the city. And I always knew that I wanted to go to school in a city. So I kind of got my mind set on Chicago. I was like, well, if I get in the car to Carnegie Mellon, I'm from Pittsburgh obviously, but I didn't.3 (38m 45s):So then I auditioned for DePaul and I didn't get in my first, I didn't get in. And so I decided to take a year off and try again, which my dad was not super happy about, but I just had my mindset. I was like, no, I'm going to take year off. And then I'm going to try it again. I'm going to audition again. And that's it. And it ended up being, you know, I think taking your off was a good thing for me. I auditioned again and I didn't get in again. And so, you know, it's funny, like listening to these stories of you guys, like, and all the struggles that you went through and it's like, well, you know, well, at least you, you got in what's true.3 (39m 33s):Like there are different struggles. Yeah. There are different struggles for sure. But then so, and I, when I didn't get in the second time, I was just, I don't know. I think I was just set on Chicago. I was kind of set on DePaul. They'd offered me a place in theater studies program. And so I took it and then I, I decided when I was there to do join the playwriting program, and this is 1996 or 1992. And I was like, at that point I was like, literally like the only person in the playwriting program. My first year, there was like one person who was like a sophomore.3 (40m 14s):I think it was like the second or third year that Dean Corrin was there. He had just been taken on to start this program. And so, yeah. And then as I went through like a few other people joined like Diane Herrera and I think Adam Matthias was also in the writing program. And so while I was there kind of grew a little bit. Yeah. So I, it was, you know, I mean, I don't know. You just want me to keep talking? I feel like2 (40m 51s):I was just ask a question about the theater studies program, because I don't know that we've ever really talked about that program and, and how you just described it, made it sound like that's where people can go to figure out what non-acting thing they want to do in theater.3 (41m 9s):I mean, I think I, to be honest, you know, I mean, let's not kid ourselves college is about making money. Right. For, for most people it's, for-profit, it's private school. I think that they wanted to build the program and yeah. I don't know what it was. I mean, I think I did pretty good on my SATs. My grades were decent and I don't know, maybe my audition was okay. And so it was sort of, yeah, like, you know, they offered it to people like, you know, if you want to come, you're not invited to the acting program, but if you want, you can come to the theater studies program. And so I said, no, the first year, and then the second year I was like, I'm ready to go to school. I mean, sometimes I think I probably would've been better off like going to like a smaller school that didn't necessarily require an audition or something like that, but say levee.3 (41m 57s):Right. And, and so, yeah, I was like, well, I guess I'll do playwriting. And I, I, I mean, I'm glad I did it for many reasons. It was not, it ended up being a really good choice for me. I mean, I think like listening to you guys talk about the competition and, you know, sort of like, I don't do well with rejection. You know, I think you really, I don't, I don't necessarily like love to be the center of attention. And I think like, as an actor or at least to be successful on some level, you have to want that attention.3 (42m 42s):I mean, you guys do, do you feel that you like being the center of attention? She does.1 (42m 49s):Like, I love, I am constantly and mine is, if you listen to the podcast, like we talk about the psychological stuff. Like, I, I still, you know, feel like I wasn't treated right as a kid. So I'm constantly, I'm so transparent about it. I'm constantly trying to get the approval of my mother. Who's dead by the way. So yeah, I, I can say that, like, I want to belong and I want someone to say you are special and I pick you. That's like my dark sort of shadow side. And it always will be for me. I think even if I work through it, I think we all have our shadow sides and that's, and that's mine. And I think it transformed into, oh, maybe if this school likes me, that will give me that sense, but I never got that from DePaul because, you know, one it's that set up for that too.1 (43m 37s):People are bitter and weird and three it's an inside job. Yeah.3 (43m 41s):Yeah. For sure. Yeah. I mean, I think for me, like part of it was, I am the youngest of four and so I think it was like that craving for attention. Like I totally get what you're saying there. So, I mean, I like to be on stage, but like, I don't necessarily like the auditioning part of it and I don't necessarily, you know, like have to be the center of attention to parties or any of those things. But I did, you know, I really did enjoy, I really do enjoy acting like I, I do like it, but so1 (44m 12s):You, you,3 (44m 12s):You were doing a playwriting BFA. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. You did.1 (44m 18s):And your plays got workshopped.3 (44m 21s):Yeah. I mean, you know, the, the program was still very fledgling and I think because, you know, I wasn't in the acting program, you know, I had a little bit of a chip on my shoulder, I think admitted,1 (44m 43s):Wait, I just have to say, like, there's something really fierce about auditioning twice for the program and then going to theater school, studying theater studies, look at your, at a young age to say, you know what? I fucking want to go to school. So I'm going to, I mean, talk about, I, I see it as, you know, I hate calling people brave, cause I think it's kind of sending, but I think it's fierce to say I'm still going to go to this school. I mean, of course you had, I would have a chip on my shoulder so big. I wouldn't go. Yeah. You went and got an education for God's sake in a degree.3 (45m 16s):Yeah. And I, I, I got a really good education, you know, that's part of what was really positive for me. And I'll go back to the question about workshopping in a second. But what was positive for me is that the theater school had this glitch in their, in their system in because the acting students had to take so many classes cause you guys had yoga and movement to music and scene study and whoever knows what else. So like as part of your tuition, you could take up to 24 credits. And so what I did is I then got a really great liberal arts education.3 (45m 57s):I took poetry writing classes. I took like performance of literature. I took video editing. I took intro to film. I took like,1 (46m 10s):We'll do you could do that Kate? Like, how did you figure out like, oh, I have 24 credits. I'm going to use these.3 (46m 15s):I really don't. I don't know that anybody told me, I think I just figured it out at some point. And I was like, okay, well I guess I'm going to get my money's worth and I'm going to go take these other classes and these other schools and learn how to write and learn how to make films and do intro to film and learn, you know? So like I really loved college. I don't, you know, the theater school was, I don't have anything negative to really say about the theater school either. I knew what I was getting into. Like I said, I sort of had that chip on my shoulder to begin with about being part of the theater school about feeling like Jen, like you said, like about feeling like an insider, but you know, all my friends were in the theater school.3 (47m 2s):I, I love theater people. I really enjoyed that experience. But, but part of my good college experience happened outside of it in many ways, just because I kind of took the reins and I was like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna have some fun with this and get a good education and, and play. And I, I loved it. I loved school. I loved learning new things and try new things. I even, I even took like a leave of absence from the theater for theater school for one quarter. Cause I did a, an overseas, I went to Ireland for a quarter.3 (47m 43s):So, and to do that, I had to take a leave of absence from the theaters. Yeah. Does that seem familiar? Yeah, probably Kelly was crying because I was supposed to be her roommate, but I never got which Kelly Kelly and Mick Adams. I was when I came back from Ireland, we were supposed to be roommates, but I never called and she just got her own apartments. And then I was like, oh my God, I don't know where I'm going to live. But yeah. So I, you know, anyway, so back to my theater school experience, so was, was positive also for playwriting. I, I don't know. I mean, I, you know, Dean Corrin was great, you know, we took like dramatic criticism we had yeah.3 (48m 30s):You know, another, another theme that I have, you know, listening to your podcast and you guys talked about it a little bit is like self-sabotage or not taking advantage of the opportunities presented to you. I feel like, because I kind of had that chip and I wanted to be an actor. Like I didn't necessarily take advantage of the opportunities, like playwriting opportunities, which came easier of course, because cause that's the way it goes, because if you want something it's not going to be, you know, it's not going to be easy, but if you're kind of, sort of like, well maybe, maybe not then the opportunities roll in, but yeah, like we had a poetry or a playwriting workshop class with Sandy Shinar she worked at victory gardens at the time.3 (49m 18s):Yeah. And she was good friends with Dean and like he had her come in as like a guest teacher one day and we were going to work my play and he'd given it to her and she had read it and, and I was just, I don't know. I, I just was like, oh God, I hate that. I really don't want to work on it. Do we have to do this? Can we do something else? And like how we shoot ourselves in the foot, you know, like what an opportunity really? And because I was insecure and scared, I'm sure like whatever psychological, you know, thing you want to come up with that, that, that we, we do to why, why we do these things for ourselves.3 (50m 1s):So, you know, and I, I had other opportunities like that along the way that I didn't necessarily take advantage of. But1 (50m 8s):Did you pull your play or did you work3 (50m 10s):On it? We didn't work on it. No, because there was somebody else in the class who was much smarter than I was and was like, oh, well here's my play. We can do my play. We can work on mine today. Yeah. I know. That's really that's.1 (50m 26s):I mean, I totally relate. And I think it, it just speaks to many things, but like, you weren't ready for that and that's it. And I, I'm starting to look at things like ready versus not ready versus good and bad. So you just weren't ready to have that experience. And we can look back and, you know, I listened to Gina and I talk to people on and we're like, we blame ourselves for that, but you just simply didn't have the emotional resources to take in that experience. And that sucks. But,2 (51m 1s):And when you're not ready, it, people could say anything to you. That person could have said, we want you to be the new resident playwright, a victory gardens. You would've said, I don't think so.1 (51m 13s):I could've gotten the laryngitis again. Like it it's, we couldn't stop.3 (51m 19s):That's so interesting. I mean, I agree with you. I think you're, I think you're right. And that's, that's hearing it come from you. It, it, it's nice Rather than me saying it to myself or trying to figure out, like, why, why do I do these things to myself?1 (51m 37s):And it's interesting having done all these podcasts, Kate, we see it over and over again. So we have the data to tell you that people have, we've heard like so many people like with these ICTs being offered these things and being like, no, I'm not going to move to LA because you know, I have an apartment in Wrigleyville. Like I'm not going to be a movie star. And people are like, what's the D we all have that. I think that's part of growing up. And I also also think it's part of expecting young people to really handle a lot of things we cannot handle.3 (52m 11s):Yeah. They're one of the books that I, I teach my students is called outliers. Have you guys read it? It's Malcolm Gladwell. And he, you know, there's a section in where he talks about practical intelligence and you know, how some people, the people that are successful, you know, they grow up with a certain family life, or, you know, maybe it's about money. It's about education. It's about these things. But it's also just knowing how to handle yourself in certain situations and knowing how to take advantage of the opportunities that are presented to you. And I think if you aren't, if you don't have that, or you're not taught that it is hard sometimes to, you know?2 (52m 50s):Yeah. And what, I just heard you, I mean, when you said, it's good to hear that from us, that made me think, oh, you've been beating yourself up about this for 25 years to yourself. Why did I squander this opportunity? Which, I mean, whether or not you did it, it's completely human. That, that you might occasionally have that thought, but have you spent a lot of time in, in regret?3 (53m 18s):I mean, I don't think so. I think I don't spend a lot of time in regret. You know, I definitely had moments over the years. I, well, a few years back, I sort of had like a little bit of a, not a breakdown, but like, I think of my midlife crisis started and like my, you know, I have two kids and my daughter was, you know, eight and my son was four and it was just kind of like, you know, you know, when kids are babies, it's just baby, baby, baby, baby. You don't, you don't have time to think about yourself. So who cares? And then like when you start to get back to yourself a little bit, it's just like, okay, I'm, you know, I'm 42 or, you know, whatever, and what have I really done?3 (54m 8s):And you know, what am I doing? And you know, is this, this, this it, I mean, I, I was teaching yoga. So, I mean, that's also a part of my journey. I mean, like I, so when I got out of school, like I did acting for a while, like, I've done some very bad independent films. Do you guys know Sandra Delgado? Oh yeah. Yeah. She, I like, we did a really bad film together in the early two thousands. And, you know, like I did like a horror film and I was like, had some small parts as mother independent films.3 (54m 52s):And, you know, I, I was trying to act and auditioning and auditioning and auditioning and like I did a couple of plays, but it was just never, you know, I just could never get to a certain point. I really just, I would have done theater and crappy theater and whatever, but I just, I couldn't, you know, for whatever reason, you know, I have the, that decade that I called the, the bad boyfriend years, so which we can all relate to on some level, which I, you know, where we all waste a lot of energy on people who don't deserve it. Oh yeah. Yeah. And then, so, so then, yeah, like a few years back, so it was kind of not in a good place.3 (55m 39s):And I was like, okay, well, I guess it's now or never. And I, I finally finished the play, so I went back to writing. Yeah. That's huge. That's awesome. You know, I finally cause I, I was like, okay, I guess if I'm going to try, I guess I gotta try. And, you know, I, I really discovered a few things. I discovered that I like writing. I, I feel good when I'm doing it. You know, there's a lot of positives to it in that way. I finished the play. I, it got, it got into like the second round at the Austin film festival.3 (56m 19s):So that was, yeah, that was pretty cool. I guess, since it was just like my first foray out of doing anything in theater in quite some time, and I had a stage reading in Chicago and then it sort of, you know, petered out after that. I, I was sending it out, sending it out, but no, no, no hits after that. But so, you know, I'm kind of gearing up to write again. So, no, I don't, I don't have, I don't, I haven't been beating myself up about it. I think that, you know, life takes a course and you can only do what you are doing in the time that you're doing it.3 (57m 0s):You only have the information that you have. You only have the life skills that you have. You only have the resources that you have. And so I think regret, I don't waste a lot of time on regret. I have enjoyed listening to the podcast and sort of like you said, Jen, like everybody's story is the same, a little bit. And that, you know, a lot of people who, you know, I've looked up to and had a lot of respect for and were really good actors and good at what they did. It just didn't happen for them. And so that's, that's like, I, yeah.2 (57m 37s):So I'm still just trying to, I'm still trying to wrap my head around why I just remember you as being an acting student, maybe it had to do with that. You were friends with Kelly and maybe because of your friendship with Kelly.3 (57m 54s):Yeah, probably that was it. Yeah. I mean, I was, I was friends with all the apartment three crew. I, yeah.1 (58m 2s):So I mean, I like, I like that even like deeper in my brain, I was like, what if I was taking on your desire to be an actor? I saw you as an actor because it was so strong that you wanted to be an actor. Like, I literally have an image of you on stage, but I actually can't3 (58m 22s):Be somebody else. Yeah. I1 (58m 25s):It's your face. It's really weird. So, anyway,3 (58m 27s):I mean, I guess at one time, like I had a play that maybe I did a stage reading of with Darryl Dickerson at school and maybe some other actors, maybe Kelly was in it. I don't know. But that would have really been like in a classroom. Yeah, yeah, no, I not an actor or, I mean, I am an actor, but none of the theater school. Yeah.2 (58m 54s):So these days, I mean, when you're talking about the work of being an English teacher, it reminded me actually, ironically, just a few days ago, I ran across a notebook that I haven't opened since I was a teacher of social studies and drama. And I re remember that I used to take for social studies. I used to write my lesson like a monologue kind of, and sort of not memorize it exactly, but almost like repeatedly rehearse it because it was not information that I already knew. I was learning the lesson right before I taught it. And teaching is so performative that during that time I was doing theater at the time.2 (59m 35s):But even if I weren't, I think I would have felt fulfilled in a performance way. Do you have that feeling about being a teacher? That it feels like a performance?3 (59m 50s):I guess what I, I do like the exchange of energy, like, like you would get from say a live audience or something like that. I don't know that I necessarily look at it as a performance, but I do feel like, yeah, you, obviously you have to be ready. You have to know what you're going to say. You have to know the material. And like, even if it is you just learning it that day or getting, you know, I feel that exchange, like, I feel good after class, like after talking with the kids and being with the kids and talking at them and, and teaching them, it does feel that way, like a little bit like that exchange of energy that you get from an audience a little bit.3 (1h 0m 35s):Yeah.2 (1h 0m 37s):Do you otherwise feel a kind of a need to do, do you have a need for any other type of creative outlet or your guys you're doing it because you're kind of getting back into3 (1h 0m 48s):My goal is to, yeah. To start writing again, like, I, I don't know how, what your, how you guys write. Like, I don't know what if you're constantly writing all the time or for me it's, it's like, I tend to sort of get inspiration and then work on something, you know, in a, in, in a period of time. Or if I create the discipline, like when I finished this play, I was getting up at like four 30 every day. I was teaching yoga at the time and the kids were, you know, still pretty young. And so I knew that the only way it was ever going to work is if I was disciplined enough to, you know, set that time aside, this is my time, my time to write.3 (1h 1m 33s):And so now, you know, after, like you said, you know, that first year is so hard, so now I'm starting to get my legs again. And I'm hoping to, yeah. Maybe start working on something I have, I've like dabbled in screenwriting before a little bit. So I'm thinking about, maybe I'm getting too into that a little bit.1 (1h 1m 57s):I have a question for you when you took playwriting. So this is interesting because it was such a young program, right. Was there any actually teaching of writing at the theater school, Like how to write a play?3 (1h 2m 12s):You know, it's funny about that. It's funny because I mean, like, I, it feels like we would write and we give it the stuff to Dean and we had deadlines and things like that. And he would give us feedback on it. You know, it's the funny thing is, is like the only, I feel like the only piece of practical writing advice that I ever got, and I, this is nothing against Dean. It's just what I remember. So Dean was awesome. I loved him. Well, we had a visiting playwright from Nigeria all over TIMI. I don't know if you remember him being there. He was there for like one quarter and he basically just like, kind of taught me to, to write a bit, you know, he's like, he's like, you have this scene here.3 (1h 2m 57s):And the guy he's at the cafe and he wants his coffee, but the waitress isn't giving him his coffee. He has to keep asking for his coffee over and over again. And it was just like, oh, you mean, I have to create like a little bit of dramatic tension in the scene, what a revelation. Right?2 (1h 3m 16s):Like it just a Mo create3 (1h 3m 17s):A moment. I felt like, you know, he gave me some real practical advice. It was just like, okay, you just have to, you know, these two people are here and you have to kind of, he wants his coffee and she won't give him his coffee and that's where the comedy comes in. And so, yeah. I don't know. I, I don't know how much, you know, they taught me about writing. I feel like I could have used a little bit of more help, like in practical matters, you know, listening to Kate's thing when you guys all went out for your showcase and that kind of thing. Like if somebody had talked to me more about submitting my work, maybe that would have been helpful.3 (1h 3m 58s):I mean, it's so weird though, to think of it at that time. I mean, I was, we were sending out headshots through the mail. We were sending out work through the mail. I mean, you have to go ,1 (1h 4m 14s):You'd have to go to what was called Kinko's then print out your play and then, and then mail it in an envelope to theaters or drop it off in person.3 (1h 4m 24s):And there was like that, like one place where you could get your headshots downtown, like the one like photography place where you could go and get like your headshots in bulk and you'd have to go pick them up. And like the blue2 (1h 4m 35s):Box. I remember the blue box.3 (1h 4m 37s):Yes. I still box exactly. You know,1 (1h 4m 44s):I think, or2 (1h 4m 45s):Yeah, something like that. So. Okay. So then let's talk about the period between graduating and we're where you are now. So you, well, you said you were auditioning,3 (1h 4m 57s):So I graduated. Yeah. And then after that, I, I, you know, I would go in spurts of productivity, you know, where I would audition a lot. You know, I was always looking at performing, you know, once again, trying to, I took a lot of classes in Chicago. I, I took classes at the actor's center. They had a lot of Meisner there. I did Steven, Steven. I have a villages program. He had a studio in like Wicker park. And so he had like a, like a, I think it was like a nine month program or something. So you would, you know, go and you'd be with the same group.3 (1h 5m 40s):And I went through a program there. I took classes downtown at, I forget what it's called now, the audition studio, or, you know, and I remember taking like an on-camera class with Erica Daniels. And who was the other, who was the lady that she always worked with? The casting director. Do you remember she was blonde1 (1h 6m 8s):Phyllis at Steppenwolf?3 (1h 6m 9s):No. It was like a casting director. Her name began with an ass. I want to say it was like Sharon or Sally, or, I dunno, she was like a big casting director at the time. So I took like an on-camera class with them, you know, I, Yeah. I don't know. It's funny cause like you, you, there's these moments where you realize like you're trying to be funny and it just, isn't funny and it just ends up really awkward. And that was one of those moments with them, you know, you're trying to impress somebody and, and she, I was sort of like chubby in high school.3 (1h 6m 57s):And so I think that as with most women who have issues with body issues, like you, you have those body issues forever. It takes a long time to shake them off. And I remember they gave me the scene. It was, the character was played by Sarah rule. Yeah. So, you know, she was a little overweight at the time, you know, and I remember kind of making this off-color joke about how, oh, I guess I see you gave me the, the part of the fat girl or something like that. Like really like probably not appropriate, but I, I meant it to be self-deprecating, but I wasn't really fat at the time.3 (1h 7m 37s):So it was didn't come off as self-deprecating it was another one of those instances where it's just like, and the woman just like hated me after that, you know? And Erica was pretty cool. I think she kind of realized that I was just nervous and awkward. And with the other woman, I remember seeing her like outside after, and she crossed the street to like, not talk to me. And I was like, oh my God, I'm such an asshole. Like, why did I say that? I didn't mean it. You know? And so I'm even blushing now I think thinking about it,1 (1h 8m 10s):You said what probably a lot of people were thinking when they would get that.2 (1h 8m 15s):Honestly, you can rest assured that absolutely every person who was there was just in an internal monologue about their own body issues. I mean, that's, that's the thing that comes up over and over again, when we feel so much shame about something like that, it's like, those people would never remember it. A and if, even if they did, they'd say with the benefit of hindsight, they might say, oh yeah, well, that just brought up for me. You know, my feelings about myself. And3 (1h 8m 44s):I mean, you know, I think, yeah, it just, it, so I took classes all over the city. I auditioned a lot, like I said, I did some independent films and then, you know, like I was still auditioning kind of in spurts over time, I think. And then I discovered yoga. And so I started doing Bikram yoga. It's just the hot yoga. I hear you guys talking about cults and cult leaders a lot on here. He's, he's one of those guys. He's a, he's a cult leader, a guru now downfall on by sexual harassment.3 (1h 9m 26s):But I started doing the yoga and that was like 2007, I think. And, you know, I had a friend who really kind of pushed me to go do the training and I wasn't really sure, but I decided to go do it. And you know, it kind of, I think, I don't know if you guys have ever done yoga, but it is sort of, you know, it kind of, it gave me something that I had been missing in a way. I think, you know, it is that, that mind body connection, I think I had been very detached from my body for many reasons, you know, abuse and all that.3 (1h 10m 7s):Like not physical abuse, but other kinds of abuse. And, and so like, I think that people get detached from their bodies. And so I think I was really connected to it in a way, and I felt good, you know, in a way that I hadn't felt in a long time. And, you know, I think that's the hardest thing. Sometimes when it goes, when you go back to theater, it's like you put so much energy into it and so much time. And I took so many classes and, you know, I enjoyed the classes and, but I just, you know, I really wanted to get on stage and it was just like, I just couldn't get there. And I think like at a certain point, you're just kind of like, what positive am I getting from this thing that I'm giving all this time and energy and love to like, what's the positives that I'm getting out of this.3 (1h 10m 55s):And I'm not, I'm not really seeing it anymore. You know, you know, I, I would get calls from people. We loved your audition. It was lovely. Please come audition for us again. So, you know, there, there were positives, but it just could never, it just really came to fruition. And so then I started doing the yoga and I, I felt really connected to it and I felt really good and in a way that I hadn't felt. And so then I started teaching yoga and I did that for like 10 years while I was having babies and raising them. And then like, yeah.3 (1h 11m 36s):So then 27 16, I started writing again.2 (1h 11m 40s):I did, I did Bikram yoga for like two years and you're just making me re remember that part of what I liked about it. It was kind of like rehearsal. I mean, cause you just go and you do the same, whatever it is, 26 poses. And the set is the same and the smell the same. And it is kind of like, it's very rich of all the nuggets, like really ritualistic.3 (1h 12m 8s):It is very ritualistic and you know, I haven't been practicing here in Morocco. Sometimes I, you know, close all the doors to my kitchen and I turn on t

The Ten Minute Bible Hour Podcast - The Ten Minute Bible Hour
0522 - I Can Kick a Wallet Straight Into My Own Hand, But I Totally Don't Need You to Know That

The Ten Minute Bible Hour Podcast - The Ten Minute Bible Hour

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 30, 2021 12:40


Thanks to everyone who supports TMBH at patreon.com/thetmbhpodcast You're the reason we can all do this together! Discuss the episode here Music written and performed by Jeff Foote.

The Uncurated Life Podcast
138 | What I'm Thankful For

The Uncurated Life Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 29, 2021 22:25


This year has been a really intense, rough one… but there has been a lot that I have been grateful for as well, and I'm reflecting on it! DISCLAIMER Colorful words may be used. don't be alarmed. NEWSLETTER https://view.flodesk.com/pages/61525a85337f1c2aacf52f6d Etsy Shop is open! https://www.etsy.com/shop/CGBPrints FIND ME ON ALL THE THINGS Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/cindyguentertbaldo YouTube - https://youtube.com/c/CindyGuentertBaldo Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/llamaletters/ Discord - https://discord.gg/Rwpp7Ww Pinterest - https://www.pinterest.com/llamaletters/ Website - www.cindyguentertbaldo.com STUFF I MENTIONED Inquiries - cindy@cindyguentertbaldo.com   TRANSCRIPTION Hi there everybody. Welcome back to the uncurated life podcast. I have been kind of cranky lately fuels into my bad art friend podcasts. You probably got a good like heaping helping of that, but in general, I've been a little cranky. And I think that a big part of that is. Just being stressed from all sorts of things going on in my life.   And a big part of that is my usual ambivalence towards the holidays, even though it has been so great having family here and our new puppy and everything else, but like, I tend to be very ambivalent at best towards the holidays because of all of my fucking unresolved and unrelenting grief about both my parents passing away when I was in my twenties.   Not feeling great about the holidays when my kids were small, because my marriage was not in a good place, et cetera, et cetera. I'm also really grateful for so many things right now. And I thought it would be appropriate as it is the end of November to talk a little bit about them. Not because I think that, you know, you need to go through a day feeling super grateful.   I was hate watching some Rachel. Stuff like recent stuff. And she said that it is impossible to be anxious or depressed if you're feeling grateful. And I'm like says fucking who, Dr. Hollis. So there is that. I'm not going to tell you that a gratitude practice is going to make you feel like a million bucks and that you can manifest your fucking best Elon Musk lifestyle or whatever.   I'm not saying that. But it is nice sometimes to reflect on those things, especially if you're feeling them, but they're being kind of drowned out by like the grumpiness or the whateverness to just bring them to the surface and hold them in your hand, like a pretty rock or something you found when you're walking on the beach and just like, look at it and let it be for a second.   And then you can set it down. But you'll have that memory and that feeling in you. So even if it doesn't magically cure you like some Dr. Hollis's might say at the very least, it'll brighten your day a little bit. And that's what I want to do right now. But before I get into that, because marketing is a thing I wanted to let you know, if you hadn't figured it out already that my series two of my fuckery flowers, which are my flagship art print that I sell on at sea, they are beautiful botanicals flowers.   I've got some herbs in this newest series of 12. Um, they're beautiful mixed media paintings that I create prints out of that have naughty words hidden in them. And the latest series a is not going anywhere. However, the shop is not going to be open for. Uh, much longer. It'll be open for another couple of weeks.   I believe I'm going to close it maybe the second week of December, because of the way that shipping is going right now, the slow downs and everything else. I just want to make sure you're not going to order anything and want it there by a certain timeframe. And then have that get all fucked because of shipping.   So my best way to control that is to just shut the shop down till the end of the year. But my goal is to reopen it. But if you would like to get your hands on those prints along with anything else that's in there. Before then I would just suggest you check it out and you can find all of that information in the show notes.   Now that I've said all of that, I would like to reflect I've done this before. This is not the first time I've done an episode like this. I would just like to reflect on some things that I'm grateful for. And maybe by listening to me talk about those things, it will help you reflect on some things you might be grateful for.   Maybe save this episode for a day when you're feeling extra fucking grumpy, but you want to listen to something that will help you maybe think through some of those things to just help ease a little bit of that, even if it doesn't change it. Now, of course, if you're really grumpy, sometimes I am and I listened to an episode like this.   I'd be like, fuck you, Cindy. I trust that you know yourself and that you would know the best time for something like this. So let's get into it. What am I grateful for? One thing I'm grateful for, which is probably one of the most complicated things that I'm grateful for is having my kids with me basically.   Full-time this is. Amazing for me. I have not had my kids with me full time. For the most part, since RJ was three and Kat was five when Russell and I split up and I've had them with me full time since August, because they moved to Denver with us. Now, the reason this is complicated is that I am divorced and I share custody of them.   And up until we moved to Denver because of Jesse's job, the kids had a 50, 50 custody split with their dad. And by. Doing this by making this move, we gave the kids the choice of where they wanted to be. Full-time because it was important that they have agency. They're both teenagers. Kat actually turns 18 at the end of December.   Holy shit. And RJ is 15, be 16 in March. And so they really do have agency in this and they wanted to come with us. And so they spend most of their summer with their dad and, um, their breaks, like fall break, winter break, spring break with their dad. So it's complicated because I am so happy to have them with me full time for a number of reasons, a because they're with me full time, it's easier to see certain things that were going under the radar when they were doing the 50 50 custody, because the vibe at each house was so different, which is now it's natural, right.   Two different households, but the kids would adapt to that. And because of that, There were certain ongoing problems, especially with one of my kids, both physically and mentally that were harder to gauge because you didn't have the context of them. Full-time and you had to depend on them reporting to you.   And as I'm sure many of, you know, especially those of you who struggle with mental health things, I struggle with mental health things that I can tell you flat out that self reporting is not accurate. But the, sometimes it's the best you have to go with. But when you have somebody with you full time, not only do you have their self-reporting, but you have your own observation, which is much more consistent.   And then on top of that, then you also don't have the transitions happening so often. So things kind of stay a little bit more mellow on the home front. So it really allows you to see what's happening. And that has been extremely helpful in so many ways. So there's that. And I mean, there's also just like the joy of having them here full time, but I recognize that while I'm grateful for that, it comes at a cost.   It comes at the cost of my ex-husband knocking to spend anywhere near as much time with them, which I can't even imagine if I was in the same situation. And on top of that, my kids don't get to see their dad as often. And that's an entirely different thing and they moved, they moved from Napa to Denver, like.   Another big cost as part of that, like Jesse and I had to make the move because of his job, but they didn't have to do that. And they did. And I'm grateful that they did, but I recognize that the gratefulness comes with a price. And so that is very much something that I have been reflecting on this year.   It's it's, bittersweets not even the right word. Complicated is basically kind of where I'm feeling with. Another thing that is a complicated feeling is low-key my cat, who we had to put down at the end of September, was at the end of September. It was in the fall, like, which we're still in, but like we had to put low-key down.   He had terminal. Failure. We think it was cancer, but it came on quickly enough. And it was so devastating to a system that even if it was cancer, there was nothing we could do. Like his kidneys were destroyed. So we couldn't fix that. Even if we stopped whatever it was, he still wouldn't have any kidney function.   I'm so grateful for the time that we had with him, because not only was he the sweetest leukemia, but on top of that, if it wasn't for me having him and. Realizing that my anti pet stance was outdated. We wouldn't have Lou who is our other cat who's two and is an absolute little wackadoo, but I fucking adore him.   And we wouldn't have gotten our new puppy, Layla, who is an absolute sweetie. So I'm grateful for our time with him, but again, it's complicated, both because I'm sad and I miss him, but also having and watching your cat fail that quickly with kidney problems and seeing his decline and seeing what it went through as somebody who also had.   Kidney failure. Like I am in chronic kidney disease. I cannot my kidney disease. There is no healing from it. I will not get better from it. A transplant will help as a treatment, but it will bring its own set of situations. And my diseases, genetic, I will never be better. I will never be better. And so seeing my cat go through kids like Jessie, Was struggling sometimes with how I was reacting to him dying, like being in that place before we put him down.   And I realized it was like, this I'm really close to this. Like I'm not a cat, but I'm in kidney failure myself. And so seeing his decline and seeing a once vibrant kitty, like really, really go downhill fast as somebody with kidney failure that really sucked. On, like, not just the, I love my kitty, but oh my God.   I also am sick kind of a situation. So like I said, I'm so grateful for the time we had together, but like the first point I made very complicated and I will say. On a very uncomplicated note. I am so grateful for our new house. I love our new house. I love how much space there is and that we can have family here.   And it gives me more time to enjoy them before I start losing my shit, because I have house guests. I love that there's room for my cat and my puppy to have space from each other, for my kids to have space from us. And yet still the arrangement of the house makes it so that we have places like the kitchen and the family room where like we can.   Come together as a family and not feel so lonely. I love having my nice big office. I love having our beautiful backyard. I love our neighborhood. It's another thing I'm grateful for our fucking neighbors. Our rad, I had that later on my list, but it just basically came in. We have rat ass neighbors. We love our neighborhood.   We love our location, very close to like a target and a Costco and an awesome Asian supermarket and just all sorts of things. I'm very, very grateful for it. And some of the things that have happened, like low-key passing away and some of the things we're going through with the kids right now, a little bit of that is mitigated by being in such a peaceful and beautiful and comforting new setting.   I had to take a pause for a second and put the lotion on my skin or else I get the hose again, because my knuckles are so dry. One thing that comes from the relocation is the desert atmosphere of Denver and goddammit. If my knuckles are not just raw. And so I'm also grateful, unplanned, grateful for trader Joe's moisturizing, hand cream, not sponsored.   I'm very grateful for the new transplant center being close to our house. So I dunno, I think I've said this in a few places, but for context, when Jesse and I shopped for a house in the burbs of Denver, we had some specific. Things we were looking for, like there was a school district we wanted to be a part of and distance from Jesse's potential new office and just various things like that, as well as like the aspects of the actual house we were looking for, there were like needs and wants that we had there.   But another thing that we put into our search that our realtor put into our search for us was that we wanted it to be within half an hour driving to. Of the new transplant center. And the reason for this is because when you get a kidney transplant, you have to make a bunch of appointments to the transplant center in the pre-transplant timeframe, like the workups and everything like that.   But then once you get the transplant for. You're in the hospital for several days. My sister was in the ICU for like five days. And the reason she was in the ICU is because they have to keep an eye on you to make sure that you're getting the right levels of immunosuppressant so that you don't reject the new organ.   And because you have something foreign in your body, your body's starting to produce an immune response, which they need to take care of, blah, blah, blah. So it's nice. And I know this from experience because we stayed in a condo five minutes from the hospital. When my sister got her transplant, it is very nice to be close enough to the hospital, to be able to go back to the house and take a shower and like have some lunch or whatever, and then go back and see someone.   So there's that. But then on top of that, a, when you have a transplant, you need to stay within. An hour of the center for the month after the transplant, both because you're going back there multiple times per week for blood work and everything else. And also because you, in case you have an emergency or anything going on with the transplant, they want you to come to the transplant center to deal with it.   They're not to some random hospital, so you need to be close enough to be able to get emergency care at the transplant center. My sister lives three hours from her transplant center. So like I said, she got a condo that thankfully one of her congregation members, the church that she's in the you use has a condo within five minutes of the hospital and they loaned it to Amy for the month.   But we weren't going to know people who were going to be able to do that for us in Denver. So, and in San Francisco, when we lived in Napa at that transplant center, On a day with no traffic, I could possibly make it there within an hour, but probably not. And so we were going to be doing the same thing.   I'm like looking for somewhere to stay and you know, it's just not the business. And especially when you're recovering from surgery, you don't want to stay in like a hotel room for a month. I mean, you might have to, but that's not like. So we very much wanted to be close to the transplant center because we knew that that was going to be something that we needed.   Well, the reason I'm so grateful for it is because as I have started going for my initial appointments and everything else, as well as other doctor's appointments, because I'm getting the rest of my medical care through the same university health system, I've had to go there so many times, both for me and for my kids.   And it is not. To live like 13 minutes from the transplant center. And I can only imagine how much nicer it will be once we actually get into the whole transplant situation. So yeah, I'm fucking grateful. We made that choice because it is already paying off on top of that. And like adjacent to that, I am so grateful for all of the medical professionals that we have been seeing for my kid.   One of my kids is dealing with some as yet undefined. Medical problems. They have, they have physical problems, they have mental health issues. And then they're also dealing with some issues surrounding food. They're all playing off of each other. And we are trying to basically unravel a rat's nest of cords, and we have no idea where to start.   So we're just sort of picking at them when we were in Napa, our pediatrician, who had been our pediatrician for like 12, 13 years since we moved there. Was wonderful, but because it was the pandemic and B Napa is a little isolated from the rest of the bay. It was hard to get in, to see specialists when we got here, because we're in a Metro area and we're close to like the university health care system.   We got referred fairly quickly to children's hospital. And since getting into that particular system, we have seen multiple different specialists. And even though we're still trying to unravel that rat's nest, we are making slow and sure progress and the medical professionals that we have been seeing, the doctors, the residents, the nurses, the, even the people like the administrative people, everybody that we've been seeing through both children's hospital and our pediatrician's office have been nothing but accommodating and helpful.   They have been just amazing in all sorts of ways and communicative and gone to bat for us, with insurance and all sorts of different things. And so it has been. Relieving as well as something I'm super grateful for because as a parent, you want to be able to fix the problem, but when you can't figure out what the problem is, it can be so frustrating.   And I'm just, I'm so grateful that the team of people we have been working with has been accessible and helpful and communicative and, and kind and funny and just so much. It's exhausting and stressful to see so many doctors, both myself and my kid are so over it, but it would have been so much worse if we had not been seen by such an amazing group of people.   And so if anybody from children's hospital in Colorado is listening fucking rock. With your cock out. And on that same note, the school has been so helpful. My kids are at a great public high school here, and they both have gotten nothing but great support from the counseling team, from the nurses. We've had appointments with teachers to talk through some stuff, and it's just been, it's been really great.   It's been really great to come as a new family, to a high school with neither kids during, as a freshmen one as a sophomore, one is a senior to be able to come in here and be able to get as much support as we've gotten, especially considering some of the obstacles that have been in one of my kid's way.   It's just been really great. It sounds like I'm doing like an Oscar speech, but I'm not it's if you guys can understand that as a parent, like for me, It is really, really stressful when your kids have things that they're dealing with that you can't fix. And so having a supportive network in a new place where we don't really know very many people has been just it's it's I am so grateful.   I can only imagine how frazzled I would be if we had been running into like obstinacy or shittiness with some of these people and we have. So knock on wood that continues now. Any grateful list, any gratitude list I have would not be complete without my family on it. But I'm so grateful for my family, both in being able to see some of them in this last month, but also just in general, being able to talk to, or to, I am not the best communicator when it comes to my family.   Like, I, I am hard to reach by phone and I'm terrible at returning phone calls. And I am just, I can be an island of myself and my family calls me on my bullshit, but also. It's just so amazing at being there when I need them and to interact with my sisters, especially as adults with our like complicated adult lives and to be able to feel so comforted when I'm with them either physically or on the phone is just so soothing to me.   And so hilarious to imagine what my parents would think of all of us, but like, I just, I wish I could just snuggle all my family all the time, but that's just not the thing. Well, there's the family, that's here in the house, my kids and Jesse and Lou and Layla. And I am so grateful for all of them as well, but, but sometimes like, it's like my sisters, my grandpa, my uncle, my cousin, like all my peeps, just so grateful as Jesse's family to Jesse's family is awesome.   Yeah. Family. Totally a good thing. And then finally, the biggest thing I'm grateful for right now, I'm gonna have the biggest, but one of the most present things I'm grateful for is all of you, my community. And that sounds hokey, but it's not. And I could tell you why, because. I have had some times in the last couple of months where I've had like major migraines or been feeling like shit and the amount of support I get from you all in the DMS and whatever, it, I'm not great at always responding, especially when I have migraine, but I see them and it, it helps.   It's like Excedrin for migraine, except I'm allowed to have it. Cause I'm not allowed to have Excedrin for migraine. Cause my kidneys. And then when I reopened my shop in October, I wasn't expecting much to happen because I hadn't released like my calendars or the new series yet. And there was so much support and so many people interested and I just, you guys, it means a lot.   It really does. It really, really does. And I just, I need you to know that I need you to know how grateful I am for you. If you're listening to this. And you're in my community and I'm grateful for you. And if you feel unseen in your life, or if you feel taken for granted, or if you feel just blahzay or whatever, or even if you don't know that, I appreciate you.   And I mean, it I'm getting like teary-eyed because I'm fucking weepy ass fool, but like, I really appreciate you. I'm glad you're here and I cannot wait to see what else we can do together. And now I feel a little bit better. I'm not quite so cranky. And I started this with like some complicated gratitude stuff, and I was like, Cindy, you might be going about this, the wrong way for what you were hoping for.   But you know, I do feel a little bit better. I'm still cranky. I'm still terminally ill. I guess I did not cure my depression, Dr. Rachel Hollis. But what I did do was put a little bit of Alovera on it and that's what I needed right now. And I hope that that at least a little bit help. Don't forget, check out series two, fuckery flowers, and please check out my Patrion.   Even if you're not interested in becoming a patron. If you see one of my patrons in the wild, thank them because they sponsored this, they make this possible, and I appreciate the shit out of them. So very much everything I said about appreciating my community. They get double. Anyway, I hope you find something that you can reflect on today that maybe puts a little Alovera on.   Feelings you have at the moment. And until next time friends, peace out.

Koala Sandwich Podcast
BONUS! Song: Stranded

Koala Sandwich Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 29, 2021 3:42


Bonus track from EP83! Totally improvised by Jimmy, on "This is Us" soundtrack.

Flipping Houses for Rookies
Episode #279 Creative Real Estate Deals - Garanteed Lawsuit Protection To Totally Ruduce Risk!

Flipping Houses for Rookies

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 29, 2021 61:26


Creative Real Estate Deals - Garanteed Lawsuit Protection To Totally Ruduce Risk!

EmpowerHER
It's not “stupid” if you're upset: Navigating the emotions from lack of support

EmpowerHER

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 29, 2021 23:19


Today we're talking about something that we ALL have to navigate sometimes; that feeling when we feel LET DOWN… or feel as if we don't have the type of support that we want from friends or family. This episode is really HONEST and also tactical. I can't wait to hear what you think! & as mentioned in this episode: If you are interested in launching YOUR own podcast we've got your back at SheGoes Company: SheGoes Podcasting (Our Intro Course) Taking you from Idea to Launch in 4 weeksTEXT: “PODCAST COURSE” (512) 548-2728 to learn more about our INTRO course Wanna connect more outside of the podcast?  #1- Come jump in our *TOTALLY FREE* EmpowerHER Podcast LISTENER COMMUNITY group! If you LOVE this podcast & want to connect with like minded women from ALL across the globe that love it too, you don't need to be a podcaster or entrepreneur, this group is for anyone that wants to hop in!!You can request to join here: www.kaciafitzgerald.com/freegroup where you will get a bounce back email with the Facebook link! #2- Be sure to hop on my TOTALLY free TEXT list called #TextsFromKac Where you can join to get PUMP UP texts from me and all the JUICY news and fun perks!  Text a salsa dancer emoji or just come say HI via text +1 512-548-2728 to subscribe!   www.kaciafitzgerald.com/texts#3- My favorite social media platform (Instagram): My personal account→ @kacia.fitzgeraldOur company account  --->  @shegoes.company 

Adam Carolla Show
Part 2: More Brad Williams; plus Totally Topical TiVo Trivia, and the News (ACS Nov 29)

Adam Carolla Show

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 29, 2021 53:03


Brad Williams is still in studio at the top of Part 2. The guys talk about male ‘male impersonators', and go on to play a round of Totally Topical TiVo Trivia. Gina then reads news stories about a Women's March Organization apologizing for reporting their average donation of $14.92, an increase in drug overdose deaths since the COVID lockdowns, a potential nasal vaccine for Alzheimer's, and a controversial Roosevelt Statue moving to North Dakota. In the last part of the show, Gina reads a couple more stories about an upcoming docuseries on the Johnny Depp / Amber Heard relationship, and the 2021 ‘Word of the Year'. Please support today's sponsors: TommyJohn.com/ADAM SimpliSafe.com/ADAM Podium.com/ADAM Con-cret.com/podcast RockAuto.com Geico.com

Smart Agency Masterclass with Jason Swenk: Podcast for Digital Marketing Agencies
What to Measure to Create a Successful Lead Generation Strategy

Smart Agency Masterclass with Jason Swenk: Podcast for Digital Marketing Agencies

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 28, 2021 20:34


What metrics should you track to create a successful lead generation strategy? Kara Brown had been working on a string of supply chain corporate jobs where she oversaw IPOs and eventually decided to create her own business and focus on lead generation. She believes filling the top of the funnel now will be the first to capture market share in the recovery. With LeadCoverage, she focuses on B2B revenue operations and acquisition strategies for scaling companies. In her conversation with Jason, they spoke about what she has seen working for lead generation, what every company should be measuring to keep a profitable business, and how you can save time on prospects that won't become customers. 3 Golden Nuggets Measure what's happening in your funnel. Many agencies don't have a really good lead generation source and are leaning on word of mouth to get new clients. You really have to find that source to keep growing. Where do most businesses fail? Kara says most companies she works with fail at truly measuring what's happening inside their funnel. At the top of her lead generation strategies are “share good news, track who's interested, and then follow up.” Another successful strategy is getting as niche as possible. “When your niche is small, you can be hyper-targeted in your approach,” she says. This will save you a lot of time with clients that don't meet your criteria. Measuring volume, velocity, and value. Kara is not running a creative agency, but she is all about making her business as profitable and valuable as possible. When it comes to how valuable her consultancy or her agency is, she thinks in terms of measuring volume, value, and velocity. Velocity is how fast are they getting in your funnel? Volume is how many deals can you handle any one time and how many deals are going to fill your pipelines? This is all about close ratios and trying not to spend too much time on deals that won't close. And value is all about what is this potential customer truly going to be worth to you? For this, try to be really honest and don't overvalue customers. Lead with pricing to save time. When you are speaking with potential customers, do you lead with the budget? Doing so could really help your closing ratio and save you a lot of time on deals that aren't going to close. Kara prefers to be really straightforward with her approach and start the conversation by stating what her company does for customers and say “this is our minimum monthly rate” to find out whether it is on that potential customer's budget or not. If they're not, then she offers to use the rest of the call to give free advice. She assures this is helpful and saves her a lot of time. Sponsors and Resources Sharpspring: Today's episode is sponsored by Sharpspring, an all-in-one revenue growth platform that provides all of the marketing automation, CRM, & sales features you need to support your entire customer lifecycle. Partner with an affordable marketing automation provider that you can trust. Head over to sharpspring.com/smartagency to enjoy an exclusive offer for podcast listeners. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio | Stitcher | Radio FM Measure Your Way to a Successful Lead Strategy and Stop Wasting Time on the Wrong Prospects {These transcripts have been auto-generated. While largely accurate, they may contain some errors.} Jason: [00:00:00] What's up, agency owners? Jason Swenk here, and have another amazing digital agency podcast guest for you. We're going to talk about lead generation for your digital agency. It's going to be a fun show, so let's go ahead and get into it. Hey, Kara. Welcome to the show. Kara: [00:00:22] Hey! Thanks for having me. Jason: [00:00:23] Yeah, I'm excited to have you on. So tell us who you are and what do you do? Kara: [00:00:27] Yeah, I'm Kara Brown. I'm the CEO and founder of LeadCoverage and we do B2B lead gen for supply chain, heavy industrial, and tech. Jason: [00:00:35] Awesome. And so how'd you get started in creating an agency? Kara: [00:00:40] Yeah, that's a funny story. So I was the 12th employee at a company called Echo Global Logistics. Very sexy, all the trucks. Uh, actually a super sexy, the guy that started Echo Global Logistics also started Groupon. So I got to send the first Groupon email. It's a true story. It came from my inbox. Got to watch them grow like crazy and then ended up being on the team that took the company I was working for went public. So I did an IPO at about 25. Uh, I was asked to move to Nashville to do another IPO for a private equity company, for another supply chain management company. Sort of a stream of, of supply chain, corporate jobs. And then ended up back in Chicago, popped out two kids, moved to Atlanta, moved here for a sort of a garbage brokerage jobs. So it was sort of similar to supply chain but in a different space. Instead of going public, that company raised $95 million in equity. When I exited that, the question was like, what to do next? And someone told me the statistic that less than 2% of female founders will ever break a million dollars in revenue. And I said, well, that doesn't sound that hard. So I did it with an all female team. It took us about 10 months and now we're on the path to ten million. Jason: [00:01:54] Awesome. So is Groupon still around? I haven't heard anything from them. Kara: [00:01:58] Yes. They're still around. They're a publicly-traded company. Please buy some Groupon things. Jason: [00:02:05] So you must have some stock. Kara: [00:02:08] Yeah, I think… They still exists. They're still out of 600 West Chicago and sort of a Chicago tech darling from the early two thousands. Jason: [00:02:15] Very cool. Uh, funny story, my wife got me a Groupon in a helicopter, like 10 years ago for my birthday. And I'm like, I'm not doing it. I'm scared to death of helicopters. That's right. Let's talk about lead generation. You know, I find a lot of digital agencies, they take on the wrong clients and they take on the wrong clients because they haven't been building their pipeline. They haven't been building their pipeline because they don't have a really good lead generation source in order to really kind of tap on because they're based on word of mouth. So what have you seen working for lead-generation? Kara: [00:02:55] Sure. So we have nine lead gen strategies, but I'll start sort of at the top. So at the top is share good news, track who's interested, follow up. Most companies that we interact with, either customers or people that would just help out as friends. Are doing one or two of those and almost none of them, almost none of them, of the companies we talked to are tracking any of it, right? Like really, truly measuring what's happening inside their funnel. And so one of the things that we've found successful for Lead Coverage is getting as niche as possible. So our niche is supply chain management companies over a hundred million in revenue or venture-backed. And basically, if you don't hit one or two of those criteria, we may take you on as a client, but we may not. We may say no, thank you. And that's been very successful for us. So in terms of lead gen, when your niche is small, you can be hyper-targeted in your approach. If you're wide and not very deep, it's really easy to end up talking to a lot of folks that aren't super valuable. The other thing that we like to measure, which we can definitely talk about later, we do a lot of measurement in our company, is we measure volume, velocity and value. And I think most important for agencies is value, right? So a very smart man part of the Groupon kickoff team in the very beginning of the early days said to me, hey, Kara, it is… it costs to you, just as much money to run a $250,000 account as it does a $2,500 account. So get upstream and get as big as you can. Get your, get your retainers as big as you can, as fast as you can. Because that's where the real money-making happens. Jason: [00:04:48] You mean you don't want to race to the bottom? I see a lot of people when they initially talk with us, we really kind of determined that pricing is one of their big issues. And they're like, well, my competitor is actually cheaper. We're actually more. I'm like, what does that matter? Do you want to win that race? I was like, I don't. Kara: [00:05:10] We just decided to raise our minimums. I went to a trade show last week for our very specific niche industry, right? So every single person at that show could be a customer for us, which I think is super important. We went to the show and the number that I told everyone, nobody said it was too expensive. And I came back to the office after two days in the trade show floor. And I said, we need to increase our minimum because no one told me it was too much. And when no one's telling you, you're too expensive, you're not charging enough. Jason: [00:05:40] Yeah. Yeah, totally. Yep. Totally agree. Get in a little bit more about kind of the velocity and the volume and the, the value. Let's talk a little bit more about that. Kara: [00:05:49] Yeah. We love measurement. So we are not a creative agency. We don't have a creative director. We don't do creative. We don't do color theory. We're probably very different than most of the folks that listen to your podcast. But I still listen to the two Bobs and I'm all about agency work. And I'm like all about sort of consulting and how do I make this business as profitable and valuable as possible? So when I think about how valuable my consultancy or my agency is, I think about volume, value, and velocity. So how fast are my customers finding me? And then how fast can I get them to close the deal? Velocity story is a funny one. I have a client that we have been or potential client we've been talking to for over two years. And I think I may tell him it is time to stop talking to each other. Like it's nice. But, um, I've sort of sent him enough info. I've done enough. We've had enough phone calls. I've talked to enough of his people. It's been two years. If you're not going to buy, you're not going to buy, right? So that's velocity. But we also had a few weeks ago, our first one call-close. So we were introduced to someone, they came through a LinkedIn post that I wrote, which I should definitely mention how we do LinkedIn because it's really interesting. And one call the guy was like, great. Let's do it. And our minimums, Jason, are $15,000 a month. And the guy was like, I don't want your minimum. I want to be a big fish in your pond. We were like, all right, let's do it. So those are really exciting. So velocity is how fast are they getting in your funnel? Volume is how many deals can you handle any one time and how many deals are going to fill your, fill your actual pipelines? This is all about close ratios, right? So you can have a whole bunch of conversations, but if they're only closing 5 to 10% of them, you're spending a lot of time on deals that aren't going to close. So I have a thing that I do… fair it may not be nice, but it helps me save a lot of time. I will look at who I'm talking to before I get on the phone. And if they're not in our box, I will open the call with something to this effect: It's so nice to meet you, Jason. I want to talk a little bit about what we do and who we do it for. I'm going to tell you how much. If we're not in your budget, we'll use the next 25 minutes. I'm going to give you 25 minutes of free advice. My minimum is $20,000 a month and my core market is supply chain technology and heavy industrial. Does that feel like something that you can afford? And if they're like, oh my budget's like $2,000 a month or something crazy, then I'll say, hey, no problem. Let's use the next 25 minutes and I'll give you all the free advice I can. That's really helpful. They also don't call me again. So I don't have to like go down the rigor mortise of like giving them a proposal for $20K a month. And they're like, uh, we're not on the same page. So that stops that and then value, right? What is this potential customer going to be worth to me? Like really, truly going to be worth to me. And I don't do the work you do. So I don't work with agency owners. But I would imagine that there are a lot of folks out there who overvalue potential customers, right? I think this product is going to come in at 80 grand and it comes in at 20. I think that this customer is going to stick around for two years and they stay for three months, right? So being really, truly honest with yourself on values really important. And the best way to check out value is just to have someone, probably not you, if you're the CEO. Go back and look at your, at your previous customers, right? Like take a deep dive and really be honest with yourself on how much is each customer actually truly worth to you? Jason: [00:09:21] Is your agency struggling to deliver real revenue growth results to your clients? You know, agency marketers can consolidate data and align marketing and sales teams goals to achieve real results for your agency and clients using revenue growth platforms. Sharpspring is an all-in-one platform built for agencies like yours to optimize digital marketing strategies with simple, powerful automation. Manage your entire funnel all in Sharpspring. Now for a limited time, my smart agency listeners will receive your first month free and half off onboarding with Sharpspring. Just visit sharpspring.com/smartagency to schedule your demo and grab this offer. That's sharpspring.com/smartagency. Yeah, I love it. And I love that you get right to the budget in the very beginning. There's so many people, you know, when I'm speaking to a crowd, one of the two questions I'll ask is all right, how many people get the budget every single time or almost every time? And then, you know, how many people ask for it? And by the it's about 50% of the room than ask. And then 50% of that, it's only a quarter of the percent of agencies are actually getting the budget. And that's before they put all that work in it. I would always go to them and say, I just need a range of what you're trying to stick around. Because here's the deal, especially on pricing, and I learned this the hard way when I talked to a small company, I never heard of called Berkshire Hathaway. And I pitched them like a $20,000 website. They were expecting 30,000. So like if I started out, like I would always try to lead with what's their expectation and then match them there. But I would also even have a floor. Uh, so pricing is very important. Kara: [00:11:12] So I actually disagree. I lead with our pricing. Because if they're willing to pay you $30,000 for a website, there's probably $120,000 somewhere in their budget, right? And I think as a woman, this isn't necessarily agency owner, but as a woman, knowing other women in business, we tend to undervalue ourselves. And what I've found is, as my retainers have gone from 5 to 7 to 12 to 15 to $20,000 minimums, no one's saying no, right? Like very few people say to me, I can't afford you, right? Unless they're like just out of the box, but if they're in the box and they understand the value and I've done a good job of delivering what we do and showing them what we do and how we do it and what the value is we bring. As long as I lead with my minimum… Actually, it's not even the minimum. I learned something at an EO event, the entrepreneur organization that the human brain anchors on the first number that you tell someone. So when someone says to me, Kara, how do we work with you? I say, well, our average retainer comes in between 30 and $40,000 a month, but our minimum is 20. So instead of them saying, oh, I can get this person for five grand a month because I say something like our minimum is five grand. They're already like, oh, well she's like, she's really expensive. Like, can I afford her home? Like, oh, like maybe I should find another $30,000 a month somewhere to pay this person. So I think it's really important that you set your own standards and there's always money in corporations. I have worked for enormous corporations in my corporate career. There's always money. Always. Jason: [00:12:58] Yeah. Yeah. I call it the reverse engineer effect when you're going over the range, because so many people, when they go, I just need to know a range. A thousand, fove thousand? I would literally start at a billion and then a million and then a hundred thousand and 20,000. So they echo that first number going, holy cow, no one else said that. What makes you so unique? And you can really separate yourself. And switching focus a little bit. You hinted a little bit to the LinkedIn post. Tell us how you do that. Kara: [00:13:28] Yeah, so we can attribute $480,000 to two LinkedIn posts. And that's just in 2020, not in 2021. So super proud of this whole process. I post super regularly on LinkedIn. Sometimes I post about being a woman in business. Sometimes it's about marketing. Sometimes it's just like, I don't know thoughts of the week that I've decided that I want to share. I have a ghost writer. She's on my team. Should we speak for about an hour a week. Now, because we've been working together for a while, she can get almost four LinkedIn posts out of that one hour. I also write for Forbes and Entrepreneur and other magazines. So she does those for me at the same time. And she writes the post themselves. They're my words, but she physically crafts them. They go to my team, my team adds the emojis and make sure that they're, if people are tagged and then they go into a file for me to approve. I approve. And then they get scheduled. So we have posts that are going out. We're recording this in September. We've got posts going up through the end of November and I'll be gone the entire month of October. So I'll still be posting even though I'll be in Europe, which is really nice. And so we can see attribution of almost $500,000 to LinkedIn. And this is LinkedIn thought leadership. And it cost me probably 2000 bucks a month to do this. So it's my most ROI driven piece of, of lead gen that we do for myself. And it's been a terrific way for us to meet people. You can't always track every single lead back to LinkedIn, but it was a, it was a funny story. I was at this trade show I just mentioned in our niche industry. And I ran into some guy that I had known from a million years ago. And he said Kara, I read every LinkedIn post and I was like, awesome. And he said… Jason: [00:15:11] Stalker. Kara: [00:15:12] Stalker, right? Well, that's the whole point, like, please stalk me. And he said, may I please introduce you to my CMO? I think that I'd really like to make sure that you two meet each other and now they're going to be a client. So you never know who's reading it. They may not be liking, sharing and engaging, but put it be putting yourself out there is super important. Jason: [00:15:31] Yeah. I love it. And these are just regular posts. Do you have a call to action on there or is it just helpful? Kara: [00:15:36] Yeah. So we're trying to, the LinkedIn algorithm changes pretty regularly. We do this for clients as well. So we have a human being on our team who is regularly trying to sort of like bust the LinkedIn algorithm. Not in an ugly way, just in a, how do we use it to our advantage? So one of the stats she told me that I was really surprised is that less than 2% of people that are on LinkedIn are actively posting. So just by actively engaging in LinkedIn, they're already in the top 2% of folks that are sort of voyeurs only, right? And so, as long as you just put anything out there, you're going to be sort of doing better than other folks. If you get into like exactly what, you know, doing posts, doing polls calls to action links, links back to landing pages. Links to, to form fills and video. We can, it's a whole another podcast we can do just to talk about how to like optimize LinkedIn. In my professional opinion, that this is specifically for my market, which is supply chain, heavy, industrial and tech. I don't need to put video out there. I don't need to be super complicated about it because no one's buying from LinkedIn, right? LinkedIn just keeps me front and center for the folks in my world and in my universe. That when I see them at the trade show or when I send them an email or when they see something from me that's interesting and they have a need. They're like, oh man, there's this woman who posts all the time on LinkedIn. She's really interesting. I'm going to reach out, right? So it's just about staying in the conversation. Jason: [00:17:03] Yeah. It's about consistency. You know, you mentioned you were chatting with someone for two years. Holy cow, like if I was chatting with them, but when I look at my, our stats, most people don't buy from us for about a year and a half to two years. They're digesting that content, which isn't a sweat off my back and if they never buy it and they just get helpful content, I'm perfectly fine with that as well. But, but yeah, just to go through the proposal process for two years, that is a yeah. Shit or get off the pot dude. Kara: [00:17:34] And yeah, this particular human is such a nice guy and he's so kind, and I know he does want to work with us and he is very specifically strapped by, you know, investors and sort of what these investors want to do. I get it. And it doesn't bother me to like, have a relationship with this person. He is also well connected. He's a good human, but we are going to have to at some point, be like, hey, I can't do one more deliverable for you, right? Like I can't, I can't put together another email or send you another proposal. Like they're all the same. Like, it hasn't changed. Like the same proposal you got two years ago was going to be the same one I'm going to send you now because what we do, hasn't really changed. Jason: [00:18:13] Awesome. Well, this has all been great, Kara. Is there anything I didn't ask you that you think would benefit the audience listening in? Kara: [00:18:19] You know, I think one of the things that's really important to us, Jason, is the combination of failed the market. That sales and marketing, including PR and AR analyst relations, which I know a lot of folks in digital marketing don't really touch analysts at all. Cause it's kind of boring, but really important to your senior leaders, right? So if you're going up market, and this is not small business, this is enterprise. So we're very fortunate in the, in our niche. We have sort of along the spectrum, small business, all the way up through sort of big corporate enterprise, even publicly traded companies. And so we get to touch everything from analyst relations to public relations, all the way through, but long story short, the deeper we get in the niche, the higher our prices can go and the more we get integrated with both PR AR and sales. And the stickier you get, the more you can deliver math back to your client that goes to their boss, that goes to the board. The longer you'll stay in the organization, the more valuable you are and the more sticky, just the stickier that you get in inside those orbes. And so that's my sort of best piece of advice is if you can deliver math back to your clients, specifically math that goes to the board or to some sort of senior executive, you will be very, very sticky. So find something that's meaningful to your customer that you can deliver on a regular basis. That means something to their boss. Jason: [00:19:46] Awesome. Love it. What's the agency website people can go and check you guys out? Kara: [00:19:50] Yeah. We're lead coverage.com and we'd love to hear from anyone who wants to talk more about lead gen or anything about supply chain. Jason: [00:19:58] Awesome. Well, thanks so much, Kara, for coming on the show. Make sure you guys go check out the website, connect with Kara. And if you guys want to be around the most amazing agency owners in the world, where they're sharing  what's working currently to be able to see the things you may not be able to see as well as have fun scaling your business. I'd like to invite all of you. Go to check out digitalagencyelite.com. This is our exclusive mastermind just for digital agency owners. So go to digitalagencyelite.com and until next time have a Swenk day.

Vegetarian Zen
VZ 398: 20 Vegan Costco Finds That Make The Membership Worth It!

Vegetarian Zen

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 28, 2021 37:23


Recently, a Costco opened up just down the street from our house and we were SUPER excited! In this episode of the podcast, we share 20 awesome vegan Costco finds that make the price of membership TOTALLY worth it!  Check out links to the products we discuss in the show notes.

Observe and Report
Episode 74: It's still TNT (Totally Noah Time)

Observe and Report

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 27, 2021 53:36


In this episode, Jax and Jason are still talking sci-fi with Another Life and Invasion. The dip into anime with Transformers: Earth Wise and Cowboy Bebop. Jax enjoyed The French Dispatch, and continues to be in the pocket of Noah Wyle with her viewing of Rizzoli & Isles and Leverage: Redemption.

LuAnna: The Podcast
TOTALLY EXTRA: Pate Gift Sets, Dog Food Pies & A Toddler's Naughty Speech

LuAnna: The Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 25, 2021 21:38


BE WARNED: It's LuAnna, and this podcast contains honest, upfront opinions, rants, bants and general explicit content. But you know you love it! It's time to get TOTALLY EXTRA. Extra chat, extra rants, extra bants, extra stories, nonsense and more.On this week's Totally Extra: Teens in Mother and Baby spaces, more shit gifts including a pate gift set and a plane blanket, Lu wants some more dirty jokes, feeding people dog food pies and licking the cat food spoon.Remember, if you want to get in touch you can:Email us at luannathepodcast@gmail.com OR drop us a WhatsApp on 07745 266947

EmpowerHER
[INTERVIEW] A raw & TACTICAL conversation all about BODY POSITIVITY, MINDSET, & CONFIDENCE w/Toni Marinucci

EmpowerHER

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 25, 2021 38:44


If you've ever struggled with BODY IMAGE issues (I mean who hasn't right?!) This episode is very timely to bring on  Registered Dietitian & Author of Once Upon a Diet to chat with us in a very RAW & tactical way about BODY POSITIVITY and some specific ways to have a healthier mindset with nutrition & health, and loving your body even during seasons of change. She also gives some GREAT tips on how you can prepare to go into the holiday's with a healthy mindset around food & family, and how to set boundaries around tough conversations! Can't wait to hear what you think! As mentioned in today's episode: Connect with Toni:  On Instagram: Click Here! Snag her new book: “Once upon A Diet” Click here!Wanna connect more w/ me outside of the podcast?  #1- Come jump in our *TOTALLY FREE* EmpowerHER Podcast LISTENER COMMUNITY group! If you LOVE this podcast & want to connect with like minded women from ALL across the globe that love it too, you don't need to be a podcaster or entrepreneur, this group is for anyone that wants to hop in!!You can request to join here: www.kaciafitzgerald.com/freegroup where you will get a bounce back email with the Facebook link! #2- Be sure to hop on my TOTALLY free TEXT list called #TextsFromKac Where you can join to get PUMP UP texts from me and all the JUICY news and fun perks!  Text a salsa dancer emoji or just come say HI via text +1 512-548-2728 to subscribe!   www.kaciafitzgerald.com/texts#3- My favorite social media platform (Instagram): My personal account→ @kacia.fitzgeraldOur company account  --->  @shegoes.company 

Sweat Equity Podcast® Law Smith + Eric Readinger
#339: How To Get Caught Up On The News That You Totally Already Knew About w/ Power Business Attorney Steven Fantetti

Sweat Equity Podcast® Law Smith + Eric Readinger

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 24, 2021 34:33


Subscribe, 5 ⭐ And Please Write A Review! Listen, Watch, Review, and Share With A Friend!   #tampa #business #podcast #69b2b #girthyroi #sweatequity

Antimatter Pod
91. Bad Paramount, No Biscuit (Prodigy 1.05 and Disco 4.01)

Antimatter Pod

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 23, 2021 59:46


Anika and Liz are UNDEFEATED by Paramount's shenanigans! We are HERE to talk about the fifth episode of Prodigy and the season 4 premiere of Discovery, and no one can stop us! Discovery has left Paramount Plus and basically Paramount has squiddled so much good will in one move, we are confused It's possible that two new Star Treks in 24 hours is too much There was not enough kissing in any of these episodes! Is Murf a person or a pet? (And if they're a pet, that is TOTALLY valid but we think Rok-Tahk might also like a puppy.) Does Michael Burnham need to be put in the James Kirk box? "And that's why we have to destroy capitalism." Book is Princess Leia (yes, this does make Michael Han Solo) We discuss our least favourite characters on Discovery; their identities may shock and enrage you. We don't love that someone is questioning Michael's capacity yet again, but that aside, we LOVE President Rillak and offer her the highest possible Antimatter Pod compliment: she reminds us of both Seska and Kai Winn. We have hair, make-up and costume notes. Saru is in this episode. As a protostar is born, a planet is asploded. Or something.

Rebel With A Cause
Totally Relatable w/ Yael Becker

Rebel With A Cause

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 23, 2021 76:54


Yael Becker escaped from New York and found a new life waiting for her in Texas. GUEST LINKS: https://linktr.ee/yaelbecker ASK ME ANYTHING: https://anchor.fm/rebelwithacause/message rebelwithacausepodcast@protonmail.com PLEASE SUBSCRIBE, RATE, AND REVIEW! It is the best way to get this podcast up the rankings and inside new earholes! MY LINKS: https://cointr.ee/rwac-podcast lorenzotti.coffee (Promo Code: RWAC to save 10%) --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/rebelwithacause/message

So To Speak w/ Jared Howe
S o T o S p e a k | Ep. 800 | Totally Not Terrorism

So To Speak w/ Jared Howe

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 23, 2021 29:17


White people can't even wave American flags on the steps of the Capitol Building without the media and federal law enforcement inferring a motive of domestic terrorism, yet these same experts are somehow baffled about the motives of a black nationalist, anti-white extremist who ran down participants in a majority white Christmas parade in Wisconsin after being told by the media that Kyle Rittenhouse got away with murder. It really makes you think... It's hard not to juxtapose their feigned moral outrage over what happened in Charlottesville with James Fields and Heather Heyer to what's happening now in Waukesha. This is EPISODE 800 of So to Speak w/ Jared Howe!

MoneyBall Medicine
Seqster's Ardy Arianpour on How To Smash Health Data Siloes

MoneyBall Medicine

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 23, 2021 58:48


Your medical records don't make pleasant bedtime reading. And not only are they inscrutable—they're often mutually (and deliberately) incompatible, meaning different hospitals and doctor's offices can't share them across institutional boundaries. Harry's guest this week, Ardy Arianpour, is trying to fix all that. He's the co-founder and CEO of Seqster, a San Diego company that's spent the last five years working on ways to pull patient data from all the places where it lives, smooth out all the formatting differences, and create a unified picture that patients themselves can understand and use.The way Ardy explains it, Seqster “smashes the data siloes.” Meaning, the company can combine EMR data, gene sequence data, wearable device data, pharmacy data, and insurance claims data all in one place. The big goal guiding Seqster, he says, is to put the patient back at the center of healthcare.Please rate and review The Harry Glorikian Show on Apple Podcasts! 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Your review may not be immediately visible.That's it! Thanks so much.Full TranscriptHarry Glorikian: Hello. I'm Harry Glorikian. Welcome to The Harry Glorikian Show, the interview podcast that explores how technology is changing everything we know about healthcare. Artificial intelligence. Big data. Predictive analytics. In fields like these, breakthroughs are happening way faster than most people realize. If you want to be proactive about your own health and the health of your loved ones, you'll need to learn everything you can about how medicine is changing and how you can take advantage of all the new options.Explaining this approaching world is the mission of my new book, The Future You. And it's also our theme here on the show, where we bring you conversations with the innovators, caregivers, and patient advocates who are transforming the healthcare system and working to push it in positive directions.If you've ever gotten a copy of your medical files from your doctor or hospital, you probably know these records don't make pleasant bedtime reading. They aren't designed to be clear or user-friendly for patients. In fact, it's usually just the opposite.The data itself is highly technical. And on top of that, there's the inscrutable formatting, which is dictated by whatever electronic medical record or “EMR” system your provider happens to use. But the problem isn't just that EMR data is incomprehensible.It's also that different EMRs are often incompatible with each other.So if you're being treated by multiple providers, it can be really tricky to share your data across institutional boundaries. That's why medicine is one of the last industries that still uses old-fashioned fax machines. Because sometimes a fax is the only way to send the data back and forth.But my guest today is trying to fix all that.His name is Ardy Arianpour, and he's the co-founder and CEO of Seqster.It's a company in San Diego that's spent the last five years working on ways to pull patient data from all the places where it lives, smooth out all the formatting differences, and create a unified picture that patients themselves can understand and use.The way Ardy explains it, Seqster quote-unquote “smashes the data siloes.” Meaning, the company can combine EMR data, gene sequence data, wearable device data, pharmacy data, and insurance claims data all in one place.The big goal guiding Seqster, according to Ardy, is to put the patient back at the center of healthcare.At the moment, however, consumers can't sign up for the service directly. Seqster's actual customers are players from inside the healthcare industry. For example, a life science companies might hire Seqster to help them make the experience of participating in a clinical trial more user friendly for patients.Or a health plan might use a Seqster dashboard to get patients more involved in their own care.Seqster did let me do a test run on my own medical data as part of my research for this interview. And I was impressed by how quickly it pulled in data that normally lives in a bunch of separate places. I'm hoping Seqster and other companies in this space will continue to make progress.Because, frankly, I think poor patient access to health data and the lack of interoperability between EMRs are two of the biggest factors holding back improvements in healthcare quality.If we can finally get those two things right, I think it can help unlock the data-driven healthcare revolution that I describe in my new book, The Future You. Which, by the way, is out now in paperback and ebook format at Barnes & Noble and Amazon.When we spoke back in September, Ardy and I talked about better EMRs and many other things. And now here's our conversation.Harry Glorikian: Ardy, welcome to the show. So, it's good to have you here, and you know, for everybody who doesn't know your story and the story of the company, I'd love to, you know, start covering some basics like, you know, the when, the what, the how, the why. What's the founding story of Seqster and what was the problems that you were really trying to go out there and solve when you started the company in 2016?Ardy Arianpour: Thanks so much, Harry. Always been a fan. I think we've known each other for quite some time, but it's been a long time since we've ran into each other since the genomic and precision medicine days. So great to see you. I hope you and your family are well and yeah, look, Seqster is super special and there's a secret story, I guess, that never has been told. It really starts way beyond 2016 when I founded the company. So I spent 15 plus years in DNA sequencing, next gen sequencing genomic market. And during that time in the 2000s to early 2010s, I was fortunate enough of being part of some amazing endeavors and organizations that allowed my team and I to take some risk. And when you take risk, when you're in biotech, pharma, precision medicine, genomics, bioinformatics, you learn new things that most people don't learn because you're you're you're, you know, trailblazing, I guess you could say. And we were able to do that back with one of my old companies where we were able to launch the first clinical exome test, launch the first BRCA cancer panels, launch the first next gen sequencing panels in a CLIA lab. Ardy Arianpour: And then, you know, it wasn't about the testing. It was all about the data, and we didn't realize that till later and we kept on seeing that wow genome data is really only one set of all the other data pieces, right? I think the genomics folks, me being a genomics guy, I guess you could say, for a decade and a half, we're so forward thinking that we forget about the simple things within science, and we never really thought, Oh, collect your medical data and pair it with your genomic data. We never really thought there would be a wearable out there. That data was going to be siloed, too. We never thought there was going to be, you know, many different medical devices and instruments that would be Bluetooth and sensor enabled, where there would be data that would be siloed. Claims data, pharmacy data. Never even crossed our minds. So, you know, when you put this all together, my inspiration with Seqster was actually really simple. And when I founded the company, I wanted to combine the genomic data with your EMR medical data as well as your wearable data, because in 2016, the tailwinds of those other, you know, services was really taken off.Harry Glorikian: Right. Totally understand it. And you know, as we were talking about before I hit record, it's like it was funny because I was just talking to another company that's working on NLP and they're able to look at, you know, papers and see drugs being used in different, you know, medical conditions. And then they figured out, well, they needed to tap into the unstructured data of a medical record to really, like, add the next layer of value to it. So, you know, there's a lot of activity going on about there. But how do you guys, how do you, how do your co-founders, you know, Zhang and Dana play into like the science, the technology and what's the sort of angle that you guys have taken to solve this problem? Or what's your idea on how to fix it? I'm not saying it's been solved yet, because that would be a Herculean task in and of itself. But how are you guys approaching it that? Is a little different than the. You know, maybe any any of your other you would you would consider anybody else out there, the working on this?Ardy Arianpour: Yeah, look for us we spent a lot of time understanding the power of data. But how what makes Seqster different is no one knows the power of the patient better than us. We've spent time with our platform with, you know, tens of thousands of patients: rare disease patients, oncology patients, parents, autoimmune disease patients, patients that have that are seeing functional medicine folks. Patients that were having issues sharing data through telemedicine, clinical trial patients. All these sorts of patients are very different. At Seqster we focused on putting the patient at the center of health care in order to smash all the data silos from their medical institutions to their wearable technology that they wear to the DNA testing that they get and even maybe a COVID test or a vaccine. How do you bring a 360-degree patient view? And you know, you tried the system, so I think you got a small teaser of how we can do that and we've really cracked this large problem. It is Herculean, I believe, and a lot of people believe because it's interoperability, it is the number one problem in all of health care.Harry Glorikian: Yeah, I mean, I had the pleasure of trying it and imported my data and was able to see, you know, individual pieces. I mean, I made some suggestions on what might make it easier for me to hone in in different areas, right, and have the system highlighting different things. But I guess each data stream is being brought in separately and then at some point you're going to create a master dashboard above it, because now each one is separate from when I go into each record, right, When I go into my medical record, it gives me one set of data with my lab results and everything else and the notes, and then it pulls in my wearable data separately that I have to look at, right? So you've got to look at it separately. It doesn't. Then I guess the next step would be creating a master sort of view of how everything would look in a sort of I don't want to say integrated, but at least a timeline view of the world. But. You know, following up on the the sort of the what question, you know, how do you sort of combine data from different EMRs, tests, apps, devices in a sort of scalable, repeatable way? I mean, it seems like to date, that's been a hugely manual process, and I can imagine you could figure out every provider's ontology and then create a table that shows what's equivalent to. And but you know, there's got to be sort of a translation scheme that would be required that that provides some constant readjustment as the main providers tweak and evolve their own systems, right? Because if the provider is tweaking their system, your system has then got to adapt to changes that are happening in that end. So how are you guys managing all that craziness?Ardy Arianpour: Yeah. So I think it all and you hit on so many points, I'll try and cover them if I remember them all. Look, the number one thing for us is we can connect to any data source. It doesn't matter. And you saw it. And just before I continue, just tell the audience how fast, how fast, how long did it take for your data to be populated after you connected it?Harry Glorikian: Oh, it was. I mean, yeah, as soon as I created it, I could see that it was, you know, it was digesting and then populating. And, you know, I was just I was watching it as a matter of fact, when I was on the phone with your person, that was helping me. Yeah. At first I said, Oh, it's not there. And then a couple of seconds later, I'm like, Oh no, it's showing up, right? So it was happening in, I don't want to say real time, but it was happening as as we were watching it evolve, right? It was sort of it was. It was almost like watching time lapse.Ardy Arianpour: And that's actually a great way. That's a great way to actually describe it. We created the time lapse of all your health data. Now let's get to the what and the how. So we connect to any health data source. The patient is fully in control. You own your data, you control it. It's all consented by you. We don't own your data and we connect to every single medical record. And that's huge that we've achieved nationwide coverage. We didn't know what data you have, but we're you're able to connect to it. Why? Because our team, which our engineering team gets all the credit for six years now, almost since founding of the company we have written, I don't know, seven million lines of code, that standardizes and harmonizes all of the ICD 9, ICD 10, SNOMED codes and every single lab result to every single wearable terminology, from biking to cycling to, you know, you name it, VitaminDB, you know, characterized in 40 different ways. You know, we're harnessing data to improve patient lives at scale. We built it for scale because you can't do it by the traditional method of just faxes and PDFs. Now, you know, being able to do that is not a bad thing.Ardy Arianpour: We can bring that service into our platform as well. It's already integrated, but that type of service takes 30 to 60 days and it's static data. It's not real time right now. If Harry goes, I don't know, you go on a bike ride and you fall and you go to the E.R. and you had whatever data connected automatically in your sister portal, it'll be populated without you even touching Seqster. That's how our real time data works and another way that we're totally differentiated than anything else in the marketplace. I was never a fan of API businesses because they're just data in data out. I truly wanted us to create a patient engagement platform, a PEP right, or a patient relationship management system, what I call a PRM instead of a CRM. And that's what we created with Seqster. So that is beyond an API, beyond just data. We're visualizing the data, as you saw. We really nailed the longitudinal health record or the individualized health record. And I think it's, I always say this, health data is medicine. The reason why it's medicine is because our platform has saved patient lives.Harry Glorikian: Ardy, how do you, how are you handling the free form notes, right, because I noticed that I could look at all my notes, but they weren't necessarily, it wasn't pulling from the note and sort of making sense of it. I mean, I could look at all of it and it was all in one place. But the the system wasn't necessarily processing it, sort of. I was talking to Jeff Felton from ConcertAI and they do a lot of sort of, their big thing is the NLP that sort of tries to choose chew through that, which is not trivial, you know, yesterday today, context matters in health care.Ardy Arianpour: Yeah. Look, if we created the the the Tesla of health care, let's just say, right, we're we're changing the game. From static data to real time data. Ok. Well, you're talking about is, are you going to create a helicopter as well? Right, OK. And all right. So, no, we're not going to go create the helicopter. Is there going to be an electric helicopter by Tesla? There's no market for that, right? So that's why they're not doing it now. I'm not saying there's not a market for NLP. It's just the fact that we'll go ahead and partner with a third party NLP provider. And we already have we have like four of them and they all have their strengths and weaknesses because it's not a one size fits all thing. And you know, we can already run OCR, you know, over the free text and pull certain ontology information out. And then, you know, when you partner with an NLP company, once you have a system that can capture data, you could do anything. So people always ask me, Are you going to get into AI? It's just the buzzword. There's a million A.I. companies. What have they really done right in health care? It's not really there. Maybe for imaging they've done some things, but it's more of a buzzword. AI only becomes valuable if you have a system, Harry, that can instantly populate data, then you can run some great artificial intelligence things on it. So NLP, AI, OCR, all those things are just many tools that can add. Now, in your experience, you only got to see about 5 percent of the power of Seqster, and that probably blew you away, even though it was five percent of the power. Because you probably never -- I don't know, you tell me, have you ever been able to collect your data that quickly? It took, what, less than a minute or two?Harry Glorikian: Yeah, well, thank God, I don't have a lot of data. So, you know, just when I tap into my my health care provider, you know, my data is there and it's funny, I always tell people, being a not exciting patient is a really good thing in one way, and it's a really bad thing because you can't play with all the data. But you know, like even when I did my genome, it's an extremely boring genome.Ardy Arianpour: My question is it's not about it being exciting or not, because thankfully you're not a chronically ill patients. But imagine if you were and how this helps, but take a step back. I'm just asking the speed, yes, and the quality of the presentation of the data that seeks to you. It was less than what hundred seconds?Harry Glorikian: Yeah. Well, it was very quick. And I've already it's funny because I texted my doctor and I was like, I need to talk to you about a couple of these lab results that look out of out of norm, right? And they weren't anything crazy. But I'm just curious like, you know, how do I get them in norm? I'm just I'm always trying to be in in the normal band, if I can be.Ardy Arianpour: So it's interesting you say that because as a healthy individual. You know, and even a chronically ill patient, it doesn't matter. The best way to actually QC data is through visualization, and this is what this is. That's foundational to interoperability. So we hit on semantic and structural interoperability with our, you know, backend engine that we've created to harmonize and standardize the data. We built many different types of retrievers and then we parse that data and then it's standardized and harmonizes it. But that visualization, which some people call the Tableau of health data, you know that we've created when they see it, is really, we got to give the credit to the patients. We had so many patients, healthy ones and unhealthy ones that told us exactly how they want it to look. We did this on the genomic data, we did this on the wearable data. We did this on the medical device data and we have some great new features that can superimpose your clinical data with your fitness data on our integrated view and timeline.Harry Glorikian: Oh, that? See, now that would be, you know, another level of value, even for a healthy patient, right to be able to see that in an integrated way. I made a suggestion, I think that when a panel shows up is. You know, highlight the ones that are out of Norm very quickly, as opposed to having to look at, you know, the panel of 20 to find the one that's out of whack, just either color them differently or reorient them so that they're easier to find. But those are simple changes just from a UI perspective. But so. How would you describe that that Seqster creates value and say translates that into revenue, right? I'm just trying to figure out like, what's the revenue model for you guys? I know that you're I can actually, I'm not even sure if I can sign up for it myself. I would probably have to do it through a system if I remember your revenue model correctly. But how do you guys generate revenue from what you're doing?Ardy Arianpour: Yeah, I'll share another secret on your show here from the founding of Seqster. My dream was to empower seven billion people on our little mothership here called Earth to have all their health data in one place. And I had a direct to consumer model in 2016. The market wasn't really ready for it, number one. Number two, it was going to cost $500 million worth of marketing to just get the message out for people to know that it exists. So long story short, in 2016, you know, when I founded the company, not that many people wanted to talk to us. They thought we were just like nuts to go after this problem. 2017, we got some calls from some investors, we raised some great seed funding after I personally put in some money in in 2016 to get the company going. And then in 2018, I got a call from Bill Gates and that was when everything changed. Bill called and wanted to meet in person, I was supposed to get 30 minutes with him. And the reason why he called is because our first beachhead was with Alzheimer's patients. My grandmother, both my grandmothers, passed away due to Alzheimer's disease. Both my maternal and paternal grandmothers and being a caregiver for my mom's mom and being very close to her since she raised me, I learned a lot about a multigenerational health record, so I actually filed patents in 2016 on a multigenerational health record because I wanted to have my grandma's data, my mom's data, my data, and be able to pass it on to research as well as to generations down my family.Ardy Arianpour: Long story short there, Bill gets all the credit for telling me after I showed him our platform, "You got to take this enterprise. You guys built something that Google Health failed at and Microsoft Vault Health Vault failed at." And it's funny we're talking about this. Look, Google just dismantled their health division again. Why? Because tech companies just don't get it. They have a lot of money. They have a lot of power. They've got a lot of smart people. But they they they don't know where, I'll give you an example. It's like a tourist with a lot of money coming into a city. You don't know where the really good local bar is, right? Why is that? You don't know where the really good, you know, slice of pizza is. You're going to go to the regular joints that everyone finds on TripAdvisor and whatever. You know your friends told you, but if you're a local, you know where to get the authentic cocktails and the authentic, you know, drinks and food. Why? Because you've lived and breathed it in the city. So we've lived and breathed it right. And so we know what not to do. It's not about knowing what to do in health care or in genomics or in biotech. It's actually knowing what you shouldn't be doing. Yeah.Harry Glorikian: And knowing I got to tell you, there's some problems where I'm like, OK, I know exactly who to call for that problem, because there aren't, you know, they're not falling off trees in that particular problem. There's a small handful of people that understand that problem well enough that they can come in and sort of surgically help you solve that problem. And you can have all the money in the world and have all the smart people you want. Doesn't mean they're going to be able to solve that particular problem, especially in health care, because it's so arcane.Ardy Arianpour: And it's getting, you know, this is a problem that is growing like cancer, interoperability. Just on this 20 minute conversation with you it has grown by hundreds of millions of dollars. Do you know why? Because data is being siloed.Harry Glorikian: Yeah. And I think, look, I've always I've said this on, you know, whatever show or and I've actually I've written letters to Congress. You know, I think this this needs to be mandated because expecting the large EMR companies to do anything is a waste of time. They're not going to do it on their own if their feet are not put to the fire and it changes. And honestly, I believe that if anything will stop the innovation of health care or slow it down is the EMR systems. You know, if you don't have the data, you can't do the work.Ardy Arianpour: Absolutely. But you know what people don't understand. And not to go off that tangent, but I'll get back to the business model in a second to answer that question because I just recalled in my mind here that I didn't answer that. Look, people don't understand that at least the EMR companies, even though they're like Darth Vader, you know, they needed. They've put some foundation there at least. If that wasn't there, we would be in a much worse situation here, right?Harry Glorikian: Correct, but if Satya Nadella hadn't really changed Microsoft, really redone it right, it wouldn't be the company it is now, and I think they [the EMR companies] are just back in the dark ages.Ardy Arianpour: Of course, I totally agree. I'm surprised, actually. Microsoft, as an example, didn't come up with their own EMR system and launch it to the hospitals to go, compete with the servers and all scripts and Epics of the world. If I was Microsoft, that's what I would do. I would have enough money in power, know exactly what to do. I would take a system like Seqster and I would explode it in a good way and be the good guys and have it completely open source and open network. But that's a whole cocktail conversation if anyone's listening on the on the podcast that wants to talk about that. Give me a call or shoot me an email or find me on LinkedIn.Ardy Arianpour: Let me go back to the business model real quick so people understand. So direct to consumer was what I wanted to do. We built it for the consumer, for the patients. It was the smartest and dumbest thing I ever did. Let's go to why it was the dumbest thing first, because it was really, really hard. It was the smartest because we would not be where we are today. You wouldn't have called me to talk on your podcast and all these other great, you know, amazing people that want to hear about how we're, you know, cracking the code on interoperability now and changing the health care system, changing clinical trials, changing decentralized trials with our system.Ardy Arianpour: Why? Well, it's because our system was built by patients. Right, and so it's a patient centric, real time, real world data platform that layers in engagements for both the providers, the payers, the pharma companies and any other enterprise that white labels our platform. We have both iOS and Android SDK and Web available. It gets fully branded. We're the Intel Inside with the Salesforce.com business model. It's a Software as a Service service that we offer to enterprises. Patients never pay for the service. And we do give VIP codes to chronically ill patients and VIPs, you know, journalists, podcasters and to be honest, anyone who emails me that wants to try it. I've been always giving on that. That costs us time and money, and I'm happy to do it because it's my way of giving back to the community and health care because I know our team and I have built a system that have saved lives. It's been covered by the news multiple times.Harry Glorikian: So, so in essence, a large provider comes, buys the access to the system and then offers it to its patient population to utilize to aggregate all this information, right? How can the platform stay patient centric if the patients aren't directly paying for it?Ardy Arianpour: Ok, very simple. All of these enterprises in health care, whether that's Big Pharma, right, or Big Oayer from Pfizer to Cigna, to United Healthcare group to Humana to even Amazon, right, to other tech companies, they all want to go down a patient centric way. It's just what's happening. You know, I've been talking about this since 2016 because we pioneered patient centric interoperability. That's what we did. That's what Seqster did. That's that's what we set out to do. And we did it. Some, you know, a lot of people say they can do it. Very few actually. Do we fit in that model now, right? And you had the experience yourself. And I think the first time I saw patient centric ads was. 2020. No, sorry. Yeah, 2020, JP Morgan Health Care Conference in January, just three months before the lockdowns and the pandemic started. It was the first time I went to Johnson & Johnson's afterparty in downtown San Francisco. And saw a huge banner saying, you know, blah blah blah, patient centricity. It's the 22nd century, you know, whatever. So they add a bunch of ads that were all patient centric, and I looked to my co-founder, Dana, and I'm like, Look at this, these guys finally caught on. I wonder if they've been, because we've been in discussions with a lot of these folks, long story short, it's not because of Seqster, I think it's just the market was headed that way. We were so far ahead of the market and there was no tailwinds. Now it is all there. And the pandemic afterwards accelerated digital health, as I say, by 7 to 10 years.[musical interlude]Harry Glorikian: Let's pause the conversation for a minute to talk about one small but important thing you can do, to help keep the podcast going. And that's to make it easier for other listeners discover the show by leaving a rating and a review on Apple Podcasts.All you have to do is open the Apple Podcasts app on your smartphone, search for The Harry Glorikian Show, and scroll down to the Ratings & Reviews section. Tap the stars to rate the show, and then tap the link that says Write a Review to leave your comments. It'll only take a minute, but you'll be doing us a huge favor.And one more thing. If you enjoy hearing from the kinds of innovators and entrepreneurs I talk to on the show, I know you'll like my new book, The Future You: How Artificial Intelligence Can Help You Get Healthier, Stress Less, and Live Longer.It's a friendly and accessible tour of all the ways today's information technologies are helping us diagnose diseases faster, treat them more precisely, and create personalized diet and exercise programs to prevent them in the first place.The book is out in print and ebook format from Amazon and Barnes & Noble. Just go to either site and search for The Future You by Harry Glorikian. Thanks. And now, back to the show.[musical interlude]Harry Glorikian: So the platform combines EHR, genetic, and fitness data, so. Why did you start with those three?Ardy Arianpour: So we started with those three, and I'll get to that, but we also do pharmacy, social determinants of health, and claims data as well. So we've added three other very large pillars. We can connect to any data source. We've created a universal interoperability platform that's patient centric that brings real time, real world data. And we're just super excited about all the business opportunities and the big pain points that we're solving for enterprise as well as for the patient. Why did we start with genomics, EMR, fitness. Ok. Here's the story. So I named the company Seqster after actually going on a five or six mile run in downtown San Diego, coming back and watching The Italian Job. And in the movie The Italian Job, it's one of my favorite movies, actually. I love that movie. I could just keep watching it over again, the real Napster was in the movie, and I used to be a Napster user where, you know, it was the way of actually pulling all your music and having it kind of in one place. Not really exactly Seqster's model, Seqster's model is is much more legal because it's patient centric. Yes, Napster was kind of stealing the data, right? So long story short, I was trying to think of a company name and I'm like, Oh my God. I don't know what hit me. I'll remember that moment like it was yesterday, Harry. Sequster came up because I had dived into DNA sequencing. We are doing everything that you can on next gen sequencing. And so I was like, Wow! Seqster. S-E-Q-S-T-E-R.Ardy Arianpour: And I went on GoDaddy.com. I bought it for $9.99. And the story started from right then. It was just me and the website. No co-founders, no onee else. I was just thinking, this is a great name. Now, you fast forward to why it's medical data plus genomic data, plus fitness data, to begin with. Well, the genomic data was an easy one because, right, I have 15 years underneath my belt on genomic sequencing technologies and clinical diagnostics and doing a lot of great things for patients in that arena. And I knew that it couldn't just be the genome, right? That's where the medical data came in because we knew and I never knew that we would be able to actually build something that would be able to pull it on together. I knew it was going to be really tough. I didn't think it was going to be this tough. We would have never done it if I knew that it was this tough. It's so great that we did because we solved it. But if you go back and say, "Ardy, would you do it again if you knew it was going to be this tough?" I wouldn't, because it's really, it's not the number two problem, it's the number one problem. And we're just, you know, I'm a peon. I'm a very small dot. I'm not anyone special. I'm just very passionate about solving this problem. That's it. And so is my team, and we got a great team and we've execute on. So great.Ardy Arianpour: And then, you know, it was my idea. I was forcing the wearable and fitness data because I was interested in that. And when the Apple Series One Watch came out, it was very limited, but I saw how it was going to change, you know, just connection of data. And my team being bioinformaticians and from the genomics world were so against bringing it in, I mean, I could show you emails of fights about me saying, get fitness data in here. They were not interested. I forced it on them. And then next thing you knew, clinical trials. One of the biggest things was how do you bring sleeping data and wearable data to x y z data? And that market started taking off. Decentralized trials. You can't even do it if you don't have wearable data. And so everyone started saying, you know, OK, you were right. That was one. I get one big pat on the back. And then we realized we can't be limited to just those three pillars. So what are the next three that we can work on? And that was claims data so we can marry it with the EMR and medical data for payers. And then we ran into pharmacy data. We just signed our first digital pharmacy deal three weeks ago with Paragon Health. And if we didn't have those capabilities, we wouldn't have the business opportunities. And the social determinants of health data being our last integrations comes in very handy for various different use cases.Harry Glorikian: So, three sort of things, right? You know, you combine all this data. What can you learn that wasn't obvious before? How do you translate into better health outcomes for consumers or, say, smarter decision making by consumers, right, so those are two potentially different ways to look at it.Ardy Arianpour: Absolutely. So one word for you: Seqster's longitudinal health record drives health economics, outcomes, research. It drives it.Harry Glorikian: Is that your clients doing that, you doing that, a third party group coming in?Ardy Arianpour: Yeah. We don't do that. We're just the patient engagement and data aggregation operating system that gets implemented for enterprise. And then the enterprise can run the analytics on top of it. They can, you know, take all of the raw data. So we're the only 21 CFR Part 11 compliant platform too. We're fully FDA compliant, Harry. It took us 19 months working with the FDA in order to get our compliance letter in September, October of last year, 2020. So about a year ago. And not only are we HIPAA compliance, not only are we High Trust certified and 256 bit encrypted on all the data that comes in, but having that FDA compliance sets us apart number one. Number two, because we're not an API, we have FHIR fully integrated. We have an API for sharing data, but we're not an API business. We're a SaaS business in health care, in digital health. We can make any company a digital health company. Let's say it's Coca-Cola, and they want to empower their 200,000 employees. They could launch a Coca-Cola Seqster white label in 72 hours to 200,000 employees. That's what we've created. Now, take that and imagine that now within pharma, within precision medicine, within clinical trials, within the payer network, which we're the only platform that's CMS ONC interoperability compliance from the Twenty First Century CURES Act as well.Harry Glorikian: So let me let me see if I... I'm trying to figure out like the angle, right? So I mean, ideally for interoperability, if we talk about the highest level right, you really want to get Epic, Cerner, Kaiser, et cetera, all in a room right? And get them to agree to something. Which is like an act of God.Ardy Arianpour: Some people say, we're doing, you know, it's not my words, but again, a figure of speech, people say, we're doing God's work.Harry Glorikian: But stepping back here for a second, what I see you guys doing is actually giving a platform to the patient and the patient is then connecting the record, not necessarily the systems themselves allowing for interoperability to take place.Ardy Arianpour: So yes, but you're speaking of it because of the direct to consumer experience that you had. The experience we gave you is much different than the experience from the enterprise side. We have a full BI platform built for enterprise as well. Right. And then we have the white label for the enterprise where they launch it to a million patients.Harry Glorikian: That's what, I'm trying to think about that, right? So. Coca-cola says, like, going down your example, Coca-Cola says, "Love to do this. Want to offer it to all of our employees." We make it available to them. But it's the employee that has to push the start button and say, yes, I want my electronic medical record to be integrated into this single platform, right?Ardy Arianpour: But that's that's an example with Coca-Cola. If we're doing something with Big Pharma, they're running a clinical trial for 500,000 COVID patients, as an example. They're getting data collection within one day versus two months, and guess what, we're going to be driving a new possible vaccine. Why? Because of the time it takes for data collection at scale. We empower patients to do that and they get something back. They get to track and monitor all their family health.Harry Glorikian: Right. So so it's sort of, you know, maybe I'm being dense, but sort of the same thing, right? Big Pharma makes it available to the patient. The patient then clicks, Yes, I want to do this and pull in my medical records to make it all everything to be in one place. Yes.Ardy Arianpour: Yes. And I think it's about the fact that we've created a unique data sharing environments. So that's, you know, Harry and Stacey and John and Jennifer and whoever, you know, with whatever use case can share their data and also consent is built with E-consent and digital consent is built within that process. You don't share anything you don't want to share.Harry Glorikian: Right. So let me see if I got this correct. So Seqster is providing a translation and aggregation between systems through a new layer of technology. Not creating true interoperability between systems, right?Ardy Arianpour: Yes. There's a spider web. And. We have untangled the spider beb in the United States of America. We've done all the plumbing and piping to every single health institution, doctor's office clinic, wearable sensor, medical device pharmacy, the list goes on and on, Harry.Harry Glorikian: So let's... Another question. So how does the 21st Century CURES Act of 2016 relate to your business? I think you know you've said something like Seqster has become law, but I'm trying to. I'm trying to understand, what do you mean when you say that?Ardy Arianpour: So when we founded Seqster, we didn't know there was going to be a Twenty First Century CURES Act. We didn't know there was going to be GDPR. We are GDPR compliance before GDPR even came out. Right? Because of our the way that we've structured our business, number one. Number two, how we built the platform by patients for CMS ONC interoperability, you know, final rulings and the Twenty First Century CURES Act, which is, they're synonymous. We worked hand in hand with Don Rucker's team and Seema Verma on the last administration that was doing a lot of the work. Now a wonderful gentleman, Mickey Tripathy has taken the role of ONC, and he understands, you know, the value of Seqster's technology at scale because of his background in interoperability. But what was interesting in the two years that we worked with HHS and CMS was the fact that they used Seqster as the model to build the rules. I was personally part of that, my team was personally part of that, you know, and so we were in private meetings with these folks showing our platform and they were trying to draft certain rules.Ardy Arianpour: We didn't know that they were going to be coming out with rules until they did. And then that's when high level folks in the government told us specifically on calls and also even at Datapalooza when I gave a keynote talk on on Seqster, when Don Rucker did as well right before me. You know, we're sitting in the speaker room and folks are like, "You're going to become law in a month." And this was in February of 2020. March 9th, those rules dropped. I was supposed to give a keynote talk at HL7,  at HIMMS. HIMMS got cancelled in 2020. I just got back from HIMMS 2021 in Vegas just a week and a half ago. It was fantastic. Everyone was masked up. There was only three cases of COVID with 10,000 people there. They did a great job, you know, regulating it. You had to show your vaccine card and all that good stuff. But you know, I would have never thought Seqster becomes law when we were founding the company. And so this is really special now.Harry Glorikian: So what does success look like for Seqster?Ardy Arianpour: It depends how you measure it. So we're in the Olympics. It's a great question. Here's my answer to you. We're in the Olympics just finished, right? So we started out in track and field. We were really good at running the 400 Meters and then somehow we got a use case on the 4x1 and the 4x4. And then we did really well there, too. And then because of our speed, you know, we got some strength and then they wanted us to get into the shot put and the javelin throw and then we started winning there, too. And then somehow, now people are calling us saying, "Are you interested in trying to swim?" We got the 100 meter butterfly. Well, we've never done that. So success for us is based off of use cases. And every use case that we deal with, within clinical trials and pharma, we've define 24 distinct use cases that we're generating business on. Within the payer community now, because of the CMS ONC Twenty First Century Cures Act, there's a major tailwind. Within life insurance for real time underwriting, there's, you know, a plethora of folks that are calling us for our system because of the patient engagement. So this patient centricity for us has been a central pillar, and I've never allowed anyone in our company, whether it's the board or our investors or employees, you know, get sidetracked from that. We've been laser focused on the patients and success at impacting patient lives at scale.Harry Glorikian: So as a venture guide, though, right, like I'm going to, there's only so much money on so much time to tackle, so many different opportunities, right? So it's there is a how do we create a recurring revenue stream and keep plugging along and then generate either enough revenue or raise enough money to do more? And so just trying to think through that for what you guys are trying to do, I get the 4x100 and the swimming. But all of that takes money and resources right to be able to prove out, of course.Ardy Arianpour: And here's another thing we're in a different state. Look, my team and I had a major exit before. We built a billion dollar company out of $3 million. And even though we weren't founders of that company, you know, I was the senior vice president and we we did really well. So, you know, that allowed us to not take salaries that allowed us to take our money and put it into doing something good. And we did that in 2016 to seed it. And then afterwards, I raised, you know, millions of dollars from folks that were interested in, you know, this problem and saw that our team had a track record. And I actually was not interested, Harry, in raising a Series A because of our experience, but we kept on getting calls. And then just six months ago, we announced, you know, our series a funding. Well, we actually announced it in March, I think it was, but we closed our Series A in January of this year and it was led by Takeda Pharma, Anne Wojcicki's 23andMe and United Healthcare Group's Equian folks that created Omniclaim and sold to UnitedHealth Group Omni Health Holdings.Ardy Arianpour: So check this out. Imagine my vision in 2016 of having medical data, genomic data fitness data. Well, if you look at the investors that backed us, it's pretty interesting. What I reflect on is I didn't plan that either. We got amazing genomic investors. I mean, it doesn't get better than getting Anne Wojcicki and 23andMe. Amazing female entrepreneur and, you know, just the just the force. Secondly, Takeda Pharma, a top 10 pharma company. How many digital health startups do you know within Series A that got a top 10 pharma? And then also getting some payer investors from UnitedHealth Group's Omniclaim folks and Equian OmniHealth Holdings. So this is to me, very interesting. But going to focus our focus has been pharma and clinical trials. And so Takeda has been phenomenal for us because of, you know, they they built out the platform and they built it out better for us and they knew exactly what to do with things that we didn't know. And with things that patients didn't know on the enterprise, you know, Takeda did a phenomenal job. And now other pharma companies are utilizing our platform, not just Takeda.Harry Glorikian: Yeah, well, they want their data aggregation. They want as much data on the patient aggregated in one place to make sense of it.Ardy Arianpour: So not necessarily that they actually want to empower patients with a patient centric engagement tool. That's pharma's number one thing right now, the data part, obviously is important, but empowering patient lives at scale is the key, and that's that's our mission. And so, yeah, that's that's a whole 'nother cocktail conversation when I see you soon hopefully in a couple of weeks.Harry Glorikian: Hopefully as life gets, or if it gets back to normal, depending on the variants, you know, we'll hopefully get to meet him in person and have a glass of wine or a cocktail together. So it was great to speak to you. Glad we had this time, and I look forward to, you know, hearing updates on the company and, you know, continually seeing the progress going forward.Ardy Arianpour: Thanks so much, Harry, for having me. Big fan of Moneyball, so thank you to you and your organizers for having me and Seqster on. If anyone wants to get in touch with me personally, you can find me on LinkedIn or you can follow Seqster at @Seqster. And again, thank you so much for. For having a great discussion around, you know, the the insights behind Seqster.Harry Glorikian: Excellent. Thank you.Harry Glorikian: That's it for this week's episode.  You can find past episodes of The Harry Glorikian Show and MoneyBall Medicine at my website, glorikian.com, under the tab Podcasts.Don't forget to go to Apple Podcasts to leave a rating and review for the show. You can find me on Twitter at hglorikian. And we always love it when listeners post about the show there, or on other social media. Thanks for listening, stay healthy, and be sure to tune in two weeks from now for our next interview. 

Workplace Hugs
Episode 98 – Workplace Hugs - Episode 98: What If I Have This Totally Wrong?

Workplace Hugs

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 23, 2021 8:20


Episode Notes How often do you challenge the assumptions that you hold? In this episode, Rami & Shannon talk about David Clutterbuck's suggestion that we challenge one assumption once a month and how you might go about doing just that.

No Sharding - The Solana Podcast
Daffy Durairaj - Co-Founder, Mango Markets Ep #53

No Sharding - The Solana Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 23, 2021 42:46


Daffy Durairaj is the co-founder of Mango Markets and is currently working full time as a developer in service of the Mango DAO.00:28 - Origin Story04:44 - Seeing the order book10:20 - The idea behind creating Mango Markets15:38 - Going from creating smart contracts to creating Mango17:32 - How big is the DAO?20:01 - The Launch29:15 - VCs and the launch32:43 - Decentralization and getting stuff done34:55 - Will DAOs ever compete with big tech companies?40:43 - What's next for Mango Markets? Transcript:Anatoly (00:09):Hey folks, this is Anatoly and you're listening to the Solana Podcast, and today I have with me Daffy Durairaj, who is the co-founder of Mango Markets, so awesome to have you.Daffy (00:20):It's great to be here.Anatoly (00:22):So origin story, how'd you get into crypto? What made you build Mango Markets?Daffy (00:30):How did I get into crypto? So, I started off really not wanting to get into crypto. I was really interested in algorithm training. I did that in college and did some competitions that I did well in, and I wanted to trade equities, but it turns out if you have not enough money, if you have a few thousand dollars it's just not allowed. You're not allowed to algorithmically trade. There's a patent day trader rule, and I was infuriated and I was just looking around and I found Poloniex where you can do anything you want. The thing that actually hooked me first to Poloniex was the lending market because immediately as soon as I saw an open lending market, I was like, "Oh wow, I have to buy some bitcoin, and I have to lend it out." And, Poloniex was all bitcoin, and then it gradually got into just the meat of it, which was algorithmic trading and everything about crypto seemed exciting, but I actually didn't want to hold bitcoin. Poloniex was all bitcoin, but again, I think the government sort of pushed me in the right direction.I was like, "Okay, I don't want to hold bitcoin, I'll hedge off my risk on BitMEX, but again, not open to US persons, and so I was kind of reluctantly holding bitcoin and thinking, all right, I have a few thousand dollars if things go bad in this whole bitcoin thing. I'll come out okay. I'll get a job or whatever, but just never got a job, just kept holding bitcoin and continue to trade crypto, and I did that for about five years. Then, I wanted to actually start trading on chain because I thought this was probably for a lot of the reasons that you built Solana, the censorship resistance, and the global liquidity of it, and the openness of it, the fact that you're not excluding people that have a few thousand dollars. I wanted to build on chain and I was just not very bullish on a lot of things, so I kept going back to trading, and then I saw Serum DEX, and I was just hooked. I placed a trade and it felt totally natural and normal. It wasn't like $40 and takes 20 seconds and you don't know if it... And, then MetaMask was jammed and you're like, "Oh, but how do I cancel this?" So, that was a long-winded way of saying I was a trader and then I saw Serum DEX and then I had to start building the tools that would make Serum DEX even more fun.Anatoly (02:59):That's awesome. I got into it by trading. Basically, I set up like an Interactive Brokers IRA account, and that let me kind of bypass the rules.Daffy (03:11):Really?Anatoly (03:13):With a very small amount of money. I think they probably closed these loopholes already. I wrote a bunch of stuff on top of their Java STK and started trading there.Daffy (03:22):I remember I actually got started that way too. I did a bunch of stuff for their Java, and we can tell you we're both programmers. We wanted to build this money machine. It's so fascinating, and it's a machine that-Anatoly (03:40):It prints money.Daffy (03:40):It does things and it prints money. What more could you want? So, I got started with Interactive Brokers, but I guess the whole IRA thing... Because I was a college student, and so even talking to an accountant would take a huge dent out of my net worth.Anatoly (04:01):Totally, it's all really not designed for... The whole financial system in trading in the US is designed to funnel retail towards an app like E-Trade or Robinhood, which takes a cut, and then sells that trade to somebody else, who will take a cut, and then 10 other people until it gets an exchange, and that's how everybody's protecting their neck. They're all taking a little slice, and I think what's cool about crypto is that even centralized exchange like FTX is 1,000 times better and less extractive of the users than anything in traditional finance, simply because they can guarantee settlement. Such a very simple thing.Daffy (04:49):You feel it right from the beginning. You go to Poloniex in 2016, and it's like, oh, you have an email, you have deposited bitcoin, and now you're just lending to people. So, just talk about not being extractive. To see the order book through Interactive Brokers or Ameritrade or whatever costs you a lot of money and it costs them a lot of money to provide it, and I don't think I'd ever seen an order book. This was my passion, this is what I love to do, and I've never actually seen it.There's that story of the blind men who are touching this elephant, and so I had kind of figured out maybe what the order book looks like, but then on Poloniex, you go there and you just see the order book and you see all the lights flashing and you're like, "Oh, this is it. This is where the trades are happening." And, that's free, and of course, a big part of Mango Markets as well is you can see the order book. That's it, that is it, there's nothing more, and it's all on chain and all this stuff. So, in terms of not being extractive, it's a really big piece of what motivates people to come in.Anatoly (06:02):I don't know if you ever tried to get data, real data. I wanted timing information when a bid comes in or when an ask comes in versus when it's filled. How do I get access to it? Because when you get data from any of these places, basically it's like a little better than Yahoo Finance, which is like every five minutes they give you a low and a high.Daffy (06:27):I don't know, did you ever succeed at doing that in Interactive Brokers?Anatoly (06:32):No, I recorded some of it, but it just never had that fidelity and it always felt like a gamble. I'll build some models and sometimes stuff would work locally against my simulations, but then whenever I would actually try to run it, I'd see that fills take a little longer than they should and all this stuff really feels like you're not interacting directly with the trading system, that somebody when they see your order they're like, "Well, maybe I'll put my order ahead of yours or do whatever or slow you down a bit." It just sucks.Daffy (07:16):It feels very opaque, it's like a black box, and of course, this is all for people like me who are kind of looking on the outside looking in. So, if I had gotten a job at Citadel or somewhere, then I could probably see what's actually happening, but the fact that the vast majority of people are going to look at it and not really know it's actually happening, not everyone wants to see an order book. That's an important fact, but there are a large number of people who need it to be a little bit transparent to be involved.Anatoly (07:49):What I hate about it is that there's a lot of people that make a lot of money from you not seeing, that they're in the business of information assymetry and fuck them.Daffy (07:58):So, it's not a family friendly podcast, so it's good. I was going to ask that. So, there's a funny story on RuneScape. I don't know if you've ever played RuneScape.Anatoly (08:17):I played Ultima Online, which is I think similar vibes in the early days.Daffy (08:22):Yeah, so on RuneScape, just like on the point of no one being able to see anything, on RuneScape, also they had an order book because that's the most natural thing to do, and I actually had to figure it out from first principles. I would place a trade and I would see that sometimes it would get executed and sometimes it would not get executed, then I realized, okay, if I place a trade for these water runes or something or oak logs or something, and I put the price really high it gets executed at some price that's not the price that I said, and then I was able to form this concept of that's the asking price. I didn't even have the terminology for this, and then I did the same for set the price to zero for a trade and now I found the bid, and now I can make a lot of money actually underbidding the best asker and overbidding the best bid.Anatoly (09:18):So, you're market making.Daffy (09:20):Yeah, so it's funny, I was reminded because you said there's a lot of people who make a lot of money in you not knowing, and I was just minting money. It took me years to accumulate like 1 million gold pieces in RuneScape and then I was able to just 30X it in a month.Anatoly (09:46):Too bad RuneScape is not a crypto currency. Whoever is running RuneScape, you're missing a huge opportunity right now to just go full crypto.Daffy (10:00):There was some talk about some NFT or something on Twitter. Somebody was trying to encourage Jagex, the company, to get involved in crypto, and of course, I tried to signal boost it, but eventually everyone falls in line.Anatoly (10:17):How did you end up with the idea for Mango Markets?Daffy (10:21):So, I have to give credit to dYdX. It was like 2019 and I hadn't really considered that this was possible. I was heads down writing, trading algorithms and trading crypto just kind of holding all of my wealth in bitcoin and I was borderline bitcoin maxi on that, and just seeing dYdX do it in those early days... Now of course, they're way more successful now. Those early days seemed that you could do leverage trading on chain, and they kind of showed it as a proof of concept, which I just kind of started pacing back and forth like, oh my God, this is changing our worldview completely.Ethereum was slow and whatever, so years went by. Actually, maybe just like a year, and then I saw Serum DEX where I felt finally, okay, all the pieces are in play and also I wanted to market make on Serum DEX, but I really need leverage. I don't really need leverage, it just makes market making dramatically more efficient and safer. Leverage is just this tool that people who are involved in the financial plumbing really need, and it wasn't there. I was like, "Okay, this is the time and I have to learn how to code smart contracts," which sounds like a very scary and daunting task, but it was not that bad.Anatoly (11:54):The scary part was that you guys were building on a platform that was really rough around the edges at the time.Daffy (12:02):Well, no one told me that shit was really rough around the edges at the time. That was actually maybe important. You come in and there was nothing to do, this was August of 2020, things were not locked down necessarily here in the United States, but people kind of scattered. No one was hanging out in the major cities, they had kind of went to go live with their families, as did I. I fled San Francisco and went to the rural part of North Carolina. So, there was nothing going on and you just have all the time in the world and bitcoin is doing well, so that's funding you in a way.Bitcoin is this big, or crypto in general, it's all the people who bought it or own some crypto, as long as it's going up, it's kind of funding whatever zany side projects you have in mind. So, this is just a side project. Wouldn't it be cool if I could access this part of the world or this technology? And so, that's why chewing glass... You probably coined that term, I don't know, that's why chewing glass wasn't so hard because that pressure to... You have all the time in the world basically.Anatoly (13:30):Basically, COVID and lockdowns were so boring that chewing glass to learn how to code smart contracts with Solana was like a reprieve from the boredom.Daffy (13:45):And, I've heard you kind of say, okay, a bear market is when everyone is coding. To give the opposite perspective, I feel like a bull market, unlike much more chill, oh yeah, nothing really matters. Crypto is going up, it doesn't matter what I do. The rent is going to be paid for, everything is going to be fine, might as well engage in high variance new ideas, new projects. In a bear market, I'm very I got to grind, I got to squeeze out a couple of more bips out of this trading algorithm because I got to pay rent. So, that's the bullish case on bull markets.Anatoly (14:30):That you can try something crazy. That is the point where people enter this space is in a bull market. It's that they kind of start coming in droves because they're like, "Everything is crazy and I can also be part of the party." But, it's hard as a founder to stay focused because you are in that high variance, high risk taking kind of mindset.Daffy (14:58):There's a trade off of during a bull market there's a lot of things looking for your attention, and a bear market is very calm, or it can be. If you built up a lot of liabilities during the bull market, now you have to stay afloat during the bear market. Maybe it's calm in the external world, but internally it's not calm. You're like, "I got to do X, Y, and Z today every day." There's that natural pressure.Anatoly (15:32):So, you decided to learn coding on smart contracts on Solana. How did you end up going from there into Mango?Daffy (15:39):Initially, it was called Leverum. Not it, there was just an idea and there was a command line tool where you could... The YouTube video might still be out there, and Max was out there somewhere on the internet and he saw it and he thought it was a great idea. And so, he reached out to me and we did some other things like speculative about a prediction market, and then we were like, "Okay, no one is going to build margin trading." A lot of people are saying it, but it doesn't look like if we just wait it's just going to happen in the next couple of weeks or something. It's probably we just have to build it.Not we just have to, but we totally should. This is clearly a very important piece of the Solana ecosystem. So, we started building it. Mango was just we were thinking alliteration is good. Everybody loves mangoes, it's a fruit that I have never heard of anybody who doesn't like mangoes. It's probably the high sugar content and Mango Margin was the idea, but then we got the domain Mango.Markets. It's kind of evolved now. When you're starting off with something, you have kind of a narrow scope. You're like, "I just want to be able to borrow money." And now, there's this Mango DAO and people are talking about NFTs and drones. I'm talking about drones. I don't know if anybody else is, but it's just gone way higher and now I'm like, "I'm a humble servant of the Mango DAO." And, that's totally a normal thing to say.Anatoly (17:27):How big is the DAO?Daffy (17:28):How big is the DAO? That's a good question.Anatoly (17:30):In humansDaffy (17:31):That's like a philosophical question. In human terms, wow, again, even still a philosophical question. So, I think if you go to MNGO token, if you go to the Solana explorer and just type in mango or MNG or something, you can probably... I don't know if they have a list of unique token addresses, so in some sense that's the DAO, but in terms of the number of people who actively post on the forums and make proposals, that's much smaller. I'm guessing there's thousands of people who have votes, but the number of people who make proposals and add meaningful commentary on the forums is maybe 20 people, and it's expanding pretty quickly.I always see new people coming in. There's also not just people, there's the wealth of the DAO and the cultural reach of the DAO, the spiritual significance of the DAO, all of those seem like size if you ask how big is the DAO. You interviewed Balaji Srinivasan, and there's this idea that he had on Twitter that was like a DAO should buy land in Wyoming and send a drone to circle it and this is kind of like a moon landing sort of kind of thing or some kind of significant breakthrough where the DAO is controlling physical objects in the real world. So, this is very exciting to me, but it has nothing to do with margin trading, it's just something exciting that maybe in a bear market, I don't know, I'll push to get this done.Anatoly (19:23):Do you want the control to happen on chain?Daffy (19:25):Yeah, I think that's necessary. Maybe not the total control, but some kind of signal that distance... So, you can kind of think of Congress authorizes a certain thing and then the executive branch does it. If we could make that link be as automated as possible, I think there's something useful there, at the very least something exciting and interesting, kind of like the moon landing where maybe there wasn't anything useful, but it was inspiring for sure.Anatoly (20:02):So, the DAO, if you guys decided you want to do something with leverage and lending, and how you guys launched was really unique. I don't even know if people did this in Ethereum. To me, this is the first time anyone's kind of done this style of launch. Can you talk about the design and how you guys thought of it and what let you make those choices?Daffy (20:25):So, people early to Solana may be familiar with the Mango market caps and how that went, which somewhat argues the first NFT on Solana, and that was done pretty much sort of like how NFTs are typically done where there's a mad rush to grab the caps as soon as possible and the price is swinging wildly and there's a lot of people. Now, I think we put that together as an April Fool's kind of thing, very quickly, and so it was great for what it did, but the experience from that was, okay, there's going to be a lot of angry people. If you do it in this way where the DAO is raising funds, and this is the inception of the DAO, the DAO is raising funds for insurance fund, you probably don't want it to just be distributed to the people who were the fastest to click.And, that was the idea. We probably don't want that. It doesn't seem useful, it seems like a lot of angry people, and a lot of frustrated people. So okay, so you take out the time component, you take out the luck component, and then you're left with you kind of have this sort of auction that lasts 24 hours, but then what if X somebody comes at the last moment and dumps in a huge amount of money and raises the price for everyone? Everyone gets the same price. So, our design was we'll have a withdrawal period or a grace period at the end, the remaining 24 hours where if you kind of don't like the price, you can bail out. It had some flaws and I think we knew about those flaws from the beginning. We were like, "Okay, we just pushed to this game of chicken to a later point where someone can put in a lot of money to scare other people away and then they pull out at the last second. And that did happen, but it's not clear if that was net positive or net negative.Anatoly (22:28):And kind of in summary, there's this 24 hour period where people deposit funds in for a fixed supply of tokens.Daffy (22:36):Correct.Anatoly (22:37):And, then the period is over, and now everybody knows what the total amount in the pot is for the token and there's kind of this price that's created and then if you don't like the price, you can withdraw the entire bid or as much as you want. You can only reduce your bid.Daffy (22:54):Correct.Anatoly (22:54):But, you don't need to withdraw the entire bid, you can just reduce it.Daffy (22:57):Correct, yep.Anatoly (22:58):So, then that pushes the average price down at the same time, so for every dollar you take out, you kind of get a better price per token.Daffy (23:07):And, you see the price ticking up during the first 24 hours as more and more people are putting money in and then the price ticking down over the next 24 hours.Anatoly (23:19):I'm a huge fan of this setup because it creates a lot of... There was news, you guys made the news because it was almost half of all of USDC that was minted on Solana ended up in that smart contract. It was like 45% of it.Daffy (23:43):I remember actually because we saw the USDC on Solana was 700 million the days before and then it had climbed up to like 1.1 billion or I don't know what the number was at the end, and there was 500 million in the contract at the end of the first 24 hours. That was not the intention.Anatoly (24:05):It's like it was minted.Daffy (24:05):And honestly, I think you could appreciate it better from the outside than from my point of view for sure, and of course, I also could appreciate it better from the time distance, but that was not expected. We kind of knew that there would be a lot of money placed in the beginning and then money would go down. That was in all the documentation that we wrote, and that was expected and we had all these dev calls where everyone was always talking about it, and I was like, "Okay, come on. Literally, there isn't that much USDC in Solana." So, it can't be that bad, but of course, I underrated the possibility that someone could just mint a whole bunch of new USDC and bring it in from somewhere else. It made the news and a couple of other projects did the same thing, and I wonder if maybe it's a one time kind of thing. The game only works once. You can't expect to scare people every time or use the tactic every time.Anatoly (25:10):Maybe, I think a lot to be said, but there was no other way to go. Mango took it all, so there was no private round, they were never listed anywhere. This was really the only way to get it, and the anticipation of a project that was awesome, and from every other perspective is... What I always tell founders is that you should always raise the least amount for the highest price. The VCs kind of have more power than you usually because they have more information, they look at many deals, people come to them, they have the money, but it's sometimes the founders have this asymmetry where they're the only ones without equity. They're the only ones without tokens and that moment is if you can get everybody at the same time to compete for that thing, then you've kind of created the symmetry there and you maximize the capital raise for the DAO, for the project, for the community, and therefore that actually is a good thing. You have more resources to build a vision.Daffy (26:16):Although, I'll clarify, I think the DAO is still handing out a lot of tokens, so there's still a lot of ways to acquire Mango tokens, and that was kind of the inception for the insurance fund. The DAO has been paying people out of the insurance fund, and so it's been useful, but there's still more tokens to be had. There is a slight private rounds and I totally understand why people do them, but like I said earlier, if you are in crypto for a while, and this the cool thing about bull markets, I don't actually need money, I just need to pay rent and bitcoin has gone up 50%, so I'm solid.And, no one was paid anything. There was just Mango tokens that were given to people and they were told the DAO values your contribution or this is the inception of the DAO, and everyone worked to build this thing. People worked without even the Mango tokens and sort of the tokens were given after the fact. I think it's a valuable way to build crypto projects actually.Anatoly (27:30):I want more teams to try to totally from genesis this DAO first approach, but it's really tough because you guys had such a principled view on how things should be done and there's a lot of people out there that are offering money for that one thing. How did you guys have the discipline to just go stick with this?Daffy (27:54):We had a lot of discussions about all these things. We talked to VCs and we still do and we like all VCs actually. So, I think Satoshi, I'm not trying to draw a comparison to us to Satoshi or anything, but there is this beauty in that story and I think there's a lot, maybe even the majority of bitcoin's value at least to me... To me, I just love the narrative. I love the story of Satoshi, the pseudonymous founder who is one of the richest people on the planet right now. Obviously, they're in a no VCs. This person wanted to not make a big fuss. It was kind of like this clockmaker prophetic person who just came and then left, built this thing and then left, and that's such an amazing story.There are these long, long payoffs. Maybe they take a while, but they definitely do pay off that if you're not hurting for rent, again, I was in a position, all the other Mango devs were in this position as well where it was a bull market, we're not getting eviction notices or something, we could kind of float the boat for a while. Just consider the longterm payoffs, consider the five year payoffs. Stories are amazing.Anatoly (29:17):The weirdest thing is that every good VC will tell you that you should maximize for the highest return. Don't worry about the middle exit, or don't compromise. Actually, imagine you're taking over the world, what are the steps to get there? And, the risk don't matter. Actually maximize for the high and this is the irony here is that I think this kind of fair launch, most distribution will probably result in overall longterm, better, and higher returns, but the risks that I always find is that humans are hard to organize and at the same time, cryptography is this new tool for organization.It is what allows us to massively scale agreement and complex problems, really, really complicated problems. We can just click a button and vote and agree on that one and you know. You know that the decision was made, but I'm curious, do you see tension between the decentralization, kind of the disorganization of the DAO and getting shit done? I've got to build stuff.Daffy (30:34):No, 100% actually, on a daily basis actually. There was a podcast with the guy on Twitter that goes by Austerity Sucks and this was back in April. We talked about this and he brought up a similar point and he was, "Yeah, this DAO thing, it's all a fine and dandy idea, but do you think this will work?" And I, to be honest with you, am skeptical, however it is always felt to me sort of a high variance idea, kind of like if you were in the 16th century Netherlands or the 17th century Netherlands and you were like, "Okay, we've got to get spices from India. How do we do it?"And, you come up with a joint stock corporation and then the join stock corporation is everywhere and I don't think anyone has really figured out how to do DAOs well or what's the right mix, how do we communicate, how do we coordinate, all those things. I don't think anyone's quite figured it out yet. No one had figured it out like six months ago. I still don't think we have figured it out, but if it works, the payoff is enormous. There is global coordination, there isn't a jurisdiction. I imagine the DAO is controlling drones one day. It could be wild. So, even taking into account all of my skepticism, I was still like, "Okay, we should do the DAO idea." Anyway, not just me, Max is totally on board with this and Tyler and all the other people who kind of built Mango Markets. But on a day to day basis, as of October 2021, now I'm thinking, okay, maybe what we need to do is have small teams that build things and then pitch it in front of the DAO and get compensation. So, the DAO is kind of the government and it subcontracts out to people. Maybe not like direct democracy rules everything and we'll try that out and if that doesn't work, we'll try something else out, but try new stuff out quickly.Anatoly (32:45):That's awesome. This is actually a really good strategy to incentivize product development. Building an MVP, which means you're the PM, and the implementer, the dev, and you go do all the work and here's your management. It's all done, just give me money.Daffy (33:09):And, there's some maintenance tasks, so it's not purely new products, so I'm thinking Mango V4, but also in the meantime, there are all these nodes that need to be paid for.Anatoly (33:24):I think you guys will need to split. We called it KTLO, keeping the lights on work. You for six months, you're on KTLO duty, and you get paid a salary effectively, and you just got to keep the lights on, but then some other folks are like, "Go build something that you can propose to the DAO and the DAO will fund it."Daffy (33:49):I think that's basically what we have coalesced on is that, well, some people should be doing KTLO and other people should be doing new things, building the new product, and it takes kind of the risk out. The DAO doesn't have to pay for whatever stuff that I produce for Mango V4, but we both have some kind of incentive to be honest about it. If it's clearly a huge improvement or even a very substantial improvement, DAO should pay me something because if the DAO doesn't, then you can expect future builders to not go for it. And, we have these discussions on the forums.People make good arguments like this. I think the average IQ in the Mango Markets forums is very high. I think probably higher than most legislative bodies. I'm just going to go out on a limb and just say that. Not ours of course, ours is obviously very high IQ, smart people in our government, but you know.Anatoly (34:55):Do you believe five years there's going to be a 30,000 person DAO. Imagine a tech company, 30,000 engineers, or 30,000 people, they got product managers, teams, layers of bullshit. Is there going to be a DAO that's competing with a big tech company?Daffy (35:16):It's legitimately really hard to figure out how this might look. The reason why I hesitate so much with the question of a 30,000 person DAO is I'm not sure it'll look exactly like a corporation that we can say, okay, these are these 30,000 people. You might never be able to figure out who is part of the DAO and maybe that's one of the benefits of the DAO. If I asked you, how many people are part of Solana, not Solana Labs, but Solana the community? It's a little bit difficult to even answer, lots of people, various levels of involvement, and financial. Some people have a lot of financial stake until you don't, but some people have a lot of financial stake and no involvement at all. It's wild all over the place. Does Bitcoin look like a country or a corporation? I can even point my finger on what it is.Anatoly (36:20):So, even LINE had a battle that had 8,000 people all coordinating over something and I think they have corporations within that game that are maybe probably span up to 1,000 I'd imagine. So, that's people organizing using tech for a common goal without a job, without a structure that you normally have at a company. Linux was built by people organizing online. I think as soon as you have something to lose and in Linux and even LINE you start building up a virtual token, your reputation is a contributor to this thing and becomes a thing that we don't normally think of as valuable in a monetary way, but it's valuable to that person, but I definitely care about my ability to continue contributing to an open source project. So, where tokens I think can get there is if there is something of value being created by the community, some common goal that everyone is working on and that token is in the middle of it and is uniting and organizing it. I think that could scale as large as a corporation.Daffy (37:45):No, I agree with you. I just think it'll always be a little bit hard to figure out how many or who is involved, just by the nature of it. I just think it'll be always a little bit hard to figure out, but will 30,000 people be building on Mango or some DAO? You already know the numbers better, but we might even be approaching that with Solana. So, I'm not part of Solana Labs or affiliated with Solana in any way, but building on Solana, and also I have a financial incentive too, but also I have a reputation incentive and it feel like I'm part of the Solana corps or whatever it is, but I don't know what it is. It doesn't even exist. It's not even a DAO. There isn't even a DAO there.Anatoly (38:39):Oddly enough, I feel the same way about Eth and bitcoin even is that we're competing with them.Daffy (38:50):But, it all feels like we're actually kind of a part of the same team and-Anatoly (38:54):This is the weird part that I think is going to be really interesting how it plays out because I don't think it's obvious to anybody what is crypto. Is it the token? Is it the coin? Is it the network? Is it the cryptography itself?Daffy (39:10):It's not the cryptography itself, so we can strike that one out.Anatoly (39:14):Are you so sure? I think it's honestly the power that a person has to be able to make these very concrete statements that are unbreakable no matter how... That's the math. The math behind it is what allows them to do them.Daffy (39:36):I don't totally know the cryptography itself. I know basic 101 number theory stuff, but I remember going through my first programming class and coming up feeling just very powerful. I'd write stuff down and then it happens. Kind of like a king, actually, more powerful than a king in a lot of ways because I was writing these training algorithms and it was happening around the world in ways that probably a medieval king couldn't imagine and crypto brings that to finance where things of actual value can be moved.Mango Markets exists and you can go there and place a trade right now, but it was just somebody who wrote it. I was involved based on you can see the GitHub contributions, but it was just people who wrote it and that's probably... We can maybe chalk that up to the cryptography.Anatoly (40:43):So, what's next for you guys?Daffy (40:46):There's drones on the horizon. Yes, sometime in the future, but we have to do a lot of the nitty-gritty, roll up your sleeves kind of work. On Solana so far, there isn't... Maybe a lot of projects are struggling with this, indexing all the data and providing it for people in a usable way because there's just so many transactions. It turns out if transaction fees are really low, people just make a lot of transactions and they don't think about it.And so, gathering it up and displaying it in a useful format to people, that's a very immediate term and then slightly medium term is sort of becoming the place where everyone does leverage trading and does borrow and lending, all the crypto natives. And then of course in the longterm, I would say it's somebody like my mom should be able to store her money in Mango Markets and not think twice about it. It's not a good idea right now I wouldn't say, but that's the goal. That involves a lot more social things than just technological things. That's get it to a level where she can do it safely and feel comfortable and manage her keys, or even if she's not managing her keys, have a solution for how the keys might be managed, that she's not falling for scams, and that's I would say my longterm goal.Anatoly (42:09):That's awesome, man. On that note, man, really awesome to have you on the podcast. Great conversation. I'm always excited about what you guys are doing and how the community is building this ecosystem of its own, so really amazing. It's serendipity that you guys started going on Solana, just really lucky to have folks like you in the ecosystem.Daffy (42:35):Thanks a lot. It means a lot. This was really fun.

I Survived Theatre School
Carole Schweid

I Survived Theatre School

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 23, 2021 98:48


Intro: buzzsaws and clean slates, rage, Where the Wild Things AreLet Me Run This By You: MoneyInterview: We talk to Carole Schweid about Juilliard, Phoebe Brand, John Lehne, Michael Brand, Midnight Cowboy, musical comedy performance, open dance calls, starring in the original cast of A Chorus Line, Bob Fosse, Pat Birch, Martha Graham, Minnie's Boys, Mervyn Nelson, playing Fastrada in the first national tour of Pippin, being a lone wolf in theatre, Lewis J. Stadlen, doing West Side Story at Bucks County Playhouse, Shelly Winters, Mary Hinkson, Nellie Forbush in South Pacific, playing Tzeitel in Fiddler on the Roof, Peppermint Lounge, Nick Dante, Michael Bennett, Marvin Hamlisch, Public Theater, Gerry Schoenfeld, The Shubert, the wish for a job vs. the real experience of working, Theda Bara & The Frontier Rabbi, Agnes de Mille, Play With Your Food, Staged Reading Magic, Albert Hague.FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):2 (10s):And I'm Gina Pulice.1 (11s):We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it. 20 years later,2 (16s):We're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense1 (20s):If at all we survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet? As more space is actually a huge thing.2 (36s):Yeah. I have to apologize for the sound of buzz saws. What is going to be going the whole time I'm talking, doing well, you1 (50s):Took some trees down, right.2 (53s):You know, that's how it started. Yeah. It started with actually, you know, it all was a surprise to me, basically one we've been talking about taking down all the trees in the front of our house. And one day Aaron said, they're coming tomorrow to take down the trees. And I'm like, how much did that cost? Because you know, taking down trees is usually really expensive. And so he says, well, he's going to do everything in the front for whatever. It was $5,000.1 (1m 22s):Yeah. She was pretty good for more than one tree. Cause one tree we had removed was $5,000 at my mom's.2 (1m 28s):Well, and it's not like they have to extract the whole tree. It's just, you know, just chopping it down. Like it's not, I don't know if it's different when they have to take out the, yeah,1 (1m 38s):I think it is when they have to take the stump out the roots and all that.2 (1m 43s):So that was fine. Although I did think to myself, Hmm. We have $5,000 to spend and this is what we're spending it on.1 (1m 54s):I've been there. Oh, I've been there2 (1m 56s):So the morning, but I'm letting it go. And so the morning comes and he tells me to go outside so we can talk about the trees and, and, and I, anyway, we, we designate some trees and they're all in the lower part of the front of our house.1 (2m 10s):Yes. You, and by the way, for people that don't know, like you have a lot of land for, for, for, for not being in the super super country, you have a lot of courage. I mean, you got a lot of trees.2 (2m 21s):Well, yeah, we have an acre and it's a lot of trees and it's a lot of junk trees. What they call junk trees. Because the idea here is once upon a time, when everybody got their heat from wood, you had to have fast growing trees. So it's these skinny trees. Yeah. Anyway, so I thought we were sort of on the same page about what we were going down. This is where I'm getting with this. And I had a couple of meetings yesterday and I was hearing the sound pretty close, but it wasn't until I looked outside that I saw, they took everything out.2 (3m 1s):The, every living thing out in the, in the front, in front of our house, including the only tree I was really attached to was I have a beautiful lilac tree.1 (3m 14s):Okay. Oh shit. And everything out.2 (3m 21s):What's that? Why they1 (3m 22s):Take everything out? Is that the plant? I think,2 (3m 25s):I think what happened was for the first couple of days, the boss was here. And then I think yesterday, the boss was like, you guys just go and finish up. And I don't know that anyway, you know what, I'm just choosing it to be, I'm choosing to look at it like, okay, well we're getting to start over and it can be exactly how we want it to be. So yeah,1 (3m 45s):That is a great attitude because there's nothing you can do you really do about it? Absolutely. Zero. You can do about threes coming out.2 (3m 53s):The only bummer is that it sounds like buzz saws all day at my house and at my neighbor's house, I'm sure they're annoyed with us too. Well,1 (4m 2s):What are you going to put? It is. Okay. So, so, okay. The good, that's the sort of wonky news, but what the good news is, what are you going to put in? Like, is there going to be a whole new,2 (4m 12s):I think it's just going to GRA, I mean, I think it's just going to be grass, which is fine. I mean, my thing was actually, it does a little bit of a metaphor because when we first moved here, we loved how quiet and private and everything is. And part of why everything feels very private at our house is there's trees and bushes blocking our view of anything. I mean, all we can see is trees and bushes when we're laying on the front, which for a while seemed cozy. And then it started to seem like annoying that we could never see. And actually there's kind of a really beautiful view of the mountains behind us. So our mountains Hills.1 (4m 51s):Yeah. But I mean, small mountains, like small2 (4m 53s):Mountains. Yeah. So I realized that it does coincide with our psychological spelunking and trying to just be like more open about everything. Like totally. You know what I mean? Like this is just be open to people seeing our house. This is open to seeing out and let's have, and actually my kids were kind of like, oh, but it's just also open and we don't have any privacy. And I'm like, yeah, well you have your room and bathroom. I mean, there's, there's places to go if you don't want people to, to see you, but let's just be open.1 (5m 31s):There's like a whole, yeah. It's a great metaphor for being visible. Like I am all about lately. I have found a lot of comfort and refuge in the truth of the matter, even if it's not pretty, even if I don't actually like it. So like getting the facts of the matter and also sharing the, of the matter without a judgment. So I appreciate this, like wanting to be seen and then letting go of what people make of that, whether your house is this way or that way, or the neighbors think this or that, I'm also the, I I'm all about it.1 (6m 15s):I'm like, you know, this is, there's something about transparency. That's very comforting for me. It's also scary because people don't like it when they can see, or they can say whatever they want, but the hiding, I think I'm pretty convinced hiding from myself and from others leads to trouble.2 (6m 37s):It leads to trouble. And any time you're having to kind of keep track of what you're, you know, being open about and what you're not, and what you've said, you know, it just it's like it's T it's listen. If I only have a certain amount of real estate in my mind, I really don't want to allocate any of it too. Right. Hiding something and trying to remember. Right.1 (7m 1s):And it's interesting, the more that we do this podcast, the more I see that, like, you know what I thought gene, I thought when we're dead, this podcast is going to remain. And then our children's children's children. I mean, I don't have kids, but my nieces and nephew and your children's children's children will have a record of this. And, and I'd rather it be a record of the truth, the truth and transparency, then some show about pretending. So I think it's going to be good for them to be able to look back and be like, for me, it's like the, my crazy aunt, like, what was she doing? And what did she think? And, and, oh my God, it's a record of the times too.1 (7m 43s):Yeah.2 (7m 43s):I think about that kind of a lot. And I think about, of course I say all this and my kids are probably like going to be, have no interests unless the, until they get to a certain age, I mean, I'll put it to you this way. If I could listen to a podcast of my mother in her, you know, in the time that I don't really the time of life, certainly before I was born, but in my life where I still didn't see her as a person until, you know, I'd love to just things like what her voice sounded like then, and that kind of thing. I mean, it's interesting.1 (8m 16s):I have nothing of my mom, like we have a very few, it was interesting because we didn't, you know, we, there was not a lot of video of my mother and today's actually the 10th anniversary of her passing.2 (8m 28s):Oh, wow. Wow. That's hard.1 (8m 31s):It is hard. You know, it is hard. And I'm working through, I started therapy with a new therapist, like a regular LCSW lady. Who's not because my last guy was an Orthodox Jewish man who wanted me to have children. Like it was a whole new, I just got involved in all the Shannon Diego's of like weirdness. I attracted that weirdest and whatever. So this lady is like a legit, you know, therapist. And they only bummer is, and I totally understand she's on zoom, but like, I I'm so sick of like, I would love to be in a room with a therapist, but I get it. She's in, she's an older lady, which is also great. I was so sick of having like 28 year old therapists.1 (9m 13s):Yeah,2 (9m 13s):Yeah, yeah. For sure.1 (9m 16s):I don't even seem right. Unless clients are like, you know, fit seven to 17. So anyway, so, but all this to say about my mom, I was thinking about it and I think what's harder than right. My mom's death right now is that there's I just, you know, and this is something I wanted to bring up with you is just like, I have a lot of rage that's coming up lately about my childhood and we weren't allowed to feel rage. And my mom was the only one allowed to feel rage. And so this rage mixed with perimenopause slash menopause. I mean, like I still get a period, but like, it's, it's a matter of time before that's over.1 (9m 58s):So, but the rage, so I guess, right. I get, you know, people like to talk about rage as some or anger as something we need to process and we need to do this and that, but the truth of the matter is since we're being transparent, like rage can be really scary. Like sometimes the rage, I feel, it's not like I'm going to do anything. Why wonky? I hope, but it's more like a, I don't know what to do with it. That is my, and I was talking in therapy about that. Like, I'm not actually sure. Practically when the feelings come up, what to do with rage. And I feel like it speaks to in our culture of like, we're all about now, this sort of like, we talk about this fake positivity and shit like that.1 (10m 41s):And also like embracing all your feelings, but there's not really practical things that we learn what to do when you feel like you're going to take your laptop and literally take it and throw it across the room and then go to jail. Like you, you. So I have to like look up things on the internet with literally like what to do with my rage.2 (11m 1s):I think that's why that's part of my attraction to reality. Television shows is a, is a performance of rage. That's that I wouldn't do just because I don't think I could tolerate the consequences. I mean, an upwards interpretation is, oh, it's not my value, but it's really just like, I don't think I can manage the content of the consequences. I'm totally at having all these blown up1 (11m 30s):And people mad at me and legal consequences. I can't,2 (11m 35s):It's something very gratifying about watching people just give in to all of their rage impulses and it's yeah. I, it it's, it may be particularly true for women, but I think it's really just true for everybody that there's very few rage outlets, although I guess actually maybe sports. Well, when it turns, when it turns sideways, then that's also not acceptable.1 (12m 3s):Yeah. I mean, and maybe that's why I love all this true crime is like, these people act out their rage, but like lately to be honest, the true crime hasn't been doing it for me. It's interesting. That is interesting. Yeah. It's sort of like, well, I've watched so much of it that like now I'm watching stuff in different languages, true crime. And I'll start again. No, no, just stories. I haven't all been the only stories that I haven't heard really, really are the ones from other countries now. So I'm watching like, like true crime in new, in Delhi.2 (12m 42s):Do you need your fix? I actually was listening to some podcasts that I listened to. There's always an ad and it's exactly about this. It's like, we love true crime, but we've heard every story we know about every grisly murder, you know, detail. And it was touting itself as a podcast of, for next time I listened to it. I'll note the name of it so I can share it with you. You know, about this crimes. You haven't heard about1 (13m 9s):T the thing is a lot of them now, because I'm becoming more of a kind of sewer. Like a lot of it is just shittily made. So like the, the they're subtitled and dubbed in India, like India. So you've got like the, the they're speaking another language and then they're and if they don't match, so then I'm like, well, who's right. Like, is it the dubbing that's right. Or the subtitles that are right. And, and actually the words matter because I'm a writer. So it was like one anyway, it's poorly done is what I'm saying in my mind. And so it sort of scraped scraping the bottom of the barrel. It's like deli 9 1 1. I swear to God. That's what it, and, and it's, and also it's, it's horrifying because the, you know, the legal systems everywhere fucked, but India has quite a system.2 (13m 57s):I think that to the rage, like, tell me more about what comes up for you with rage and where you,1 (14m 6s):Yeah. Okay. So some of it is physiological, like where I feel literally like, and I think this is what my doctor's talking about. The menopause symptoms. I literally feel like a gnashing, my teeth. Like, I feel a tenseness in my jaw. Like, that's literally that. And she's like, that could also be your heart medication. So talk to your heart doctor. I mean, we're checking out all the things, but like, but it's tension. That's what it really feels like in my body is like tight tension where I feel earth like that. If I had to put a sound effect to it, it's like, ah, so I, I feel that is the first symptom of my rage. And then I feel like, and, and I say out loud, sometimes I hate my life.1 (14m 54s):That's what I say. And that is something I have never allowed myself to say before. Like I, I think unconsciously, I always told myself, like, you just, you have to be grateful and you know, those are the messages we receive, but sometimes life just fucking sucks. And sometimes my life, I just, I just can't stand. And, and in moments, you know, I never loved myself. So it's mostly a physical symptom followed by this is intolerable, what someone is doing. Sometimes my dog or my husband, but even, even if the coworking space, you know, like the lady was talking too loud and I was like, oh my God, this is intolerable.1 (15m 34s):She has to shut up. So agitation, that's what it is. And, and then it passes when I, if I, if I can say, oh my gosh, I am so fricking in Rouge right now. Then it passes.2 (15m 52s):Yeah. Well, it, it kind of sounds like from, from you and probably for most people, the only real option is to turn it in on yourself, you know, like you're not going to put it elsewhere. So you've, you know, you have, which is, so I guess maybe it's okay if you turn it on yourself, if you're doing, if you're working, if you're doing it with acceptance, which is the thing I'm gathering from you, as opposed to stewing and festering. And1 (16m 21s):I mean, it becomes, it's interesting. Yes, it is. So it's like, so red, hot, and so sudden, almost that the only thing I can do is say, okay, this is actually happening. Like, I can't pretend this isn't happening. I, it I'm like physically clenching my fists. And then I, yeah, there is a level of acceptance. I don't get panicked anymore. Now that I, that something is wrong. I just say, oh, this is rage. I name it. I'm like, I feel enraged and white, hot rage, and then it, and then it, and then I say, that's what this is.1 (17m 3s):I don't know why. I don't know where it's coming from. Right. In this moment. It's not proportionate to the lady, like literally talking on the phone at my coworking space that she's not shouting. So it's not that. And I don't want to miss that. I'm not like I can't fool myself to think that it's really, that lady's problem. That I feel like throwing my laptop at her head. And then, and then it passes. But, but, but it is, it is more and more. And, and I think a lot of it, not a lot of it, but you know, my doctor really does think that it's, it's hormonal. A lot of it just doesn't help the matter. I mean, it's not like, oh, great. It's hormonal. Everything's fine. But it, it does help to make me feel a little less bonkers.2 (17m 45s):Maybe you should have like a, a whole rage. Like what, like a rate. Well, first I was thinking you should have a range outfit. Like, oh, for me, if I, I noticed I pee in the winter anyway, I pick like my meanest boots and my leather jacket. When I'm feeling, you know, maybe say maybe kind of a rage outfit, when did Pierce?1 (18m 9s):No, I, I scratched myself in my sleep. Oh no, it's okay. It happens all the time. I do it in my sleep. It's a thing that it's like a little skin tag that I need to get removed. It's2 (18m 23s):So you could have a rage outfit and then you could have a rage playlist, And then you might even have like rage props. I'm just trying to think about a way that your ma you, you could write because if, if how you process something is artistically creatively, then maybe you needed a creative outlet that's specifically for, for race.1 (18m 48s):Yeah. And you know, the, I, I love that. And now I'm thinking about like, as a kid, we, because we, anger was so off limits to us. I used to violently chew gum. Like I would chew on the gum. That was a way, and my mom did the same thing, even though she also got her rage out, but it was like, you know, when people violently chew on their gum, like that was a way I could get my aggression out. That's so sad that that's like the only way.2 (19m 16s):Well, I mean, you find it wherever you can find me. It's like water looking for whatever that expression is, right? Yeah. Huh. Well, I have to get more in touch with my rage because I I'm told that I seem angry a lot.1 (19m 33s):You do.2 (19m 35s):I, I do get told that, but, but that sucks for me because I feel like I'm not expressing my anger and I'm, but I'm not. So I'm not, and I'm being seen as angry at certain times. So that means I didn't even get the benefit of like letting out the anger that somebody is.1 (19m 56s):Right. You didn't even get to act out the anger. It's like, yeah. So for me, miles tells me that all the time, like, he's like, you seem really in couples therapy. Also, I have to admit yesterday was a big day. We had couples therapy on zoom. Then I had individual therapy. And in between I had all kinds of like, just stuff happening. So, but yeah, I'm told I a miles is like, you seem so angry and he's not wrong. And, and we take it out on the people that we live in a two by four apartment with. So I also feel like this office space is helping with that, but yeah, I dunno, I'm going to have to keep exploring my, my rage and that's what it is.1 (20m 37s):And also it is like, I am the character in where the wild things are that kid, that is what I feel like. And it feels it's like the perfect cause he wants to gnash his teeth and, and he does, and a thrash, thrash, thrashing mash, or the words 2 (21m 6s):Let me run this by you that I wanted to do when we're going to talk to Molly that we didn't get to do. And it was based on made, you know, and just about money and, and wondering like what your relationship is right now with money. And also, but when were you at your lowest with money? What do you remember as being your lowest moment? Sure, sure. With money with money.1 (21m 40s):Okay. I have moments of what first comes to mind was when right. I was at DePaul. So it's an apropos in college and there was obviously a sense. I had a sense of lack, always, even though based on whatever, but it was phone. Somehow my accounts were always negative, right? Like, and I would call the number, the banking number, incessantly to check, and it would always be negative. So I have this panic thoughts about that. Like being a time of like, and that's not the only time that happened like that.1 (22m 23s):Where, what is the feeling? The feeling was that, and this was in college where it started to happen, where I felt like there's never enough. No, one's going to help me. I'm irresponsible with money. Was the message I told myself and I probably was, I was in college, but I can't handle money. And literally that, that panic was also, I mean, it was true. I had no money, but my parents would have backed me, probably helped me out, but I was too scared to ask for help. So that's like, that's when, when you asked that question, that's where I go.1 (23m 4s):But, but that's also a college kind of me. So like in terms of an adult, me, that's a really great, great question. My lowest, I don't know. What about you?2 (23m 22s):Well, I've got a lot of Loma Loehmann's moments with money when I was in high school. The thing was, I lost my wallet all the time.1 (23m 35s):Oh, I remember this. I remember you talking about,2 (23m 38s):Yeah, that'd be still lose stuff all the time. That actually started at a young age with, you know, my mom would, she, my mom was really into jewelry and she would buy me destroyed. And there's nothing wrong with the fact that she brought me jewelry, but I lost it. You know, she buy me nice gold jewelry1 (23m 59s):Because she likes nice things. That's right. Yeah.2 (24m 4s):In college it was pretty bad. And the first time it was pretty bad. I had to move back in with my mom because I couldn't afford rent. And then the second time I just, I re I really, if I had more bravery, I probably would have signed up to be one of those girls in the back of the Chicago reader. Like, I, I, I just figured what ha how literally, how else? Because I had a job, but I only worked however much I could work given the fact that we were in rehearsals and like busy all day, so I never could make enough money. And then I just, I think I always have had a dysfunctional relationship with money.1 (24m 51s):Wait a minute, but I have to interrupt. Why, why didn't our parents fucking help us? Okay. Look, I know I sound like a spoiled asshole brat, but like, when I think of the anxiety that we were going through and I know your mom did, so I'm not going to talk shit about your mom or anything, but I'm just saying like, why did we feel so alone in this when we were so young, this is not right.2 (25m 11s):Yeah. Well, my mom did help me out as much as she possibly could, but I think part of it too, my dad certainly didn't think it was that. I mean, when my mom was 18 and my dad was 19, they bought a house and had a baby. So I think part of it is, has been like, what's the matter with you? Cause I didn't go to college, you know, that's the other thing. So, so then when I, then I had a period for like 10 years where I always had three jobs, me two, what1 (25m 46s):Did you have enough then? I mean like, could you make rapid enough?2 (25m 49s):I had enough then yeah, I had enough then. But then when Aaron decided he wants to go to medical school, it was really on me to, to bring in the income. I mean, his parents always gave him money. They helped, it was a lot more. I mean, and actually it's why he became a therapist because I thought, well, we're going to be living with no income because he's going to be a student. Right. So I better giddy up and get a job. So the whole time I was in social work school, I was bartending. I remember that. And then I went quickly into private practice so that I could make money.2 (26m 29s):And it turned out to be, it turned out to backfire on me. Tell1 (26m 35s):Me, tell me, tell me more.2 (26m 37s):It backfired in two ways. Number one, I was, I shouldn't have been operating a private practice without my LCSW. I had my MSW and I was working at the time in a psych hospital. And all of the psychiatrist said, you should start your private practice. You should start your private practice. And I remember saying at the beginning, I don't know if I'm allowed to oh yes, yes. You definitely can. I know tons of MSWs into plenty of people and it's true. I don't know if it's still true now in New York, but at that time you could walk around and see plenty of nameplates for offices where somebody in private practice and that just have an MSW.2 (27m 18s):They just had to have a supervisor1 (27m 19s):Or something.2 (27m 22s):I don't know. Okay. I dunno. Right. So that ended up coming to haunt me when a disgruntled patient. And they're all disgruntled in some way, a family who actually had been swindled by a con artist, like they, they were a blue blood, rich ass family and they got swindled by a con artist. And so they were talking about rage. They had a lot of rage about that. When this guy who was paying for his daughter's treatment, didn't think it was going where, you know, he wanted it to right.2 (28m 4s):He started pushing back about the fee and then he was submitting to his insurance company and they were not reimbursing because I didn't have the LCSW. So then he reported me to the New York state office of professional discipline or1 (28m 21s):Whatever yeah.2 (28m 21s):Regulation or whatever. Yeah. And I ha I had to go through a whole thing. I had to have a lawyer and I had to go, yeah, yeah. It was a nightmare. It was a complete and total nightmare. And I, and I said nothing, but like, yeah, I did that. I did do that. And I did it because I needed to make the money. I mean, in some ways I don't regret it because I did it worked for the time that it worked. And then by the time it stopped working, I was ready to leave private practice anyway. Oh my God. Yeah. But then it also backfired because we were taking in this money, which we desperately needed living in New York city with two kids.2 (29m 3s):And, and we were, we were spending it all and not hold withholding any for taxes. So then that started, that started, that started almost 10 year saga of just, I mean, I, it's embarrassing to even say how much money we've paid in just in fees, compounded fees. Nope. I'm sure. In the last 10 years we've given the government a million dollars.1 (29m 29s):That sounds, that sounds about right. And you know, I think the thing with money too, is the amount of forgiveness I've need to muster up for the financial decisions that I have made. So one of them that I'm super embarrassed about is that, and I, and I hear you when it's like, yeah, I, it, it's embarrassing. I, I, when I did my solo show, I inherited the year that my mom died. My great aunt also died, who I very barely knew. And I inherited like, like a lot of money. Well, to me, a lot, like 50 grand from her, and I spent 15,000 on a publicist for my solo show that did nothing.1 (30m 14s):So I was swindled. Oh,2 (30m 17s):I'm so sorry to hear that. That really did nothing.1 (30m 22s):I could have done it all on my own. I could have done it all on my own, on drugs, in a coma. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, like, come on. So I have done made some questionable decisions. I did the best we did the best we could with, with the information that we all had at the time. I would never make that decision. I wouldn't, I will never make that mistake again. So yeah. Money is very, very, obviously this is so like kind of obvious to say, but it is, it is. So it is a way in which we really, really use it to either prize or shame ourselves. Right. And, and, and w I do it either way, like I do it.1 (31m 2s):Oh, I'm so fancy. I inherited this dough. And then I also do it. It's that thing that they talk about in program, which is like, you're the worm, but you're the best worm for the festival, special worms. And like, you're not a worker among workers. I'm just like the best idiot out there. It's like,2 (31m 18s):Dude. Yeah. And you're making me realize that money might be the only very quantifiable way of understanding your psychology list. The money is like, understanding your psychology through math. It's going okay. If you're a person like me who gets offered a credit card at age 20 totally signs up and, and immediately maxes it out at whatever, to get 27% interest rate. So whatever little thousand dollars of clothes I got, I probably paid $10 for it. And for the longest time. So, so that's me being afraid of the truth of my financial situation, being unwilling to sacrifice, having, you know, whatever, cute clothes being about the immediate gratification of it all and not thinking longterm.2 (32m 15s):Yeah.1 (32m 16s):Okay. Well, not asking for help either. Like, like, I don't know who I'd asked, but someone had to know more than me. I didn't ask my parents. They didn't really know what was happening at, or that just was their generation of like, not teaching us about money. It was sort of like, good luck. Get it together. We got it together. You get it together. Okay. Fine. But like unwillingness and fear to ask, to be taught something about money. Like, I didn't know, Jack shit about credit or interest Jack shit.2 (32m 46s):Yeah. And I recently realized that I'm basically redoing that with my kids, because we supposedly have this allowance. Only one of my kids ever remembers to ask for it because you know, only one of my kids is very, you know, very interested in money, but like, in a way I can understand why the others don't because it's like, well, anytime they want something, I pay for it. I never say sometimes I'll say recently, I've gotten better about saying, if we're going to go back to school shopping I'll especially if the oldest one, I'll say, this is your budget. If you, if you spend it all on one pair of sneakers, then I hope you're okay with your sweat pants that don't fit and wear them everyday for the rest of the school year.2 (33m 31s):Right. But it's, we've, we've just been extremely inconsistent in tying, like, for example, chores to your allowance,1 (33m 42s):It's fucking miserable and hard. And I have trouble doing that for myself. I wouldn't be able to do that for my children. If I had children, I can't not give the dog people food. What are you talking about? How am I going to bring it? Doesn't shock me. We didn't learn the skills and I'm not blaming. I mean, I'm blaming, of course my parents, but I'm also just saying, it's just the facts. If we're going to be that in the truth, like, I didn't learn, I didn't educate myself and nobody educated me. So I'm really learning through trial and error. Mostly error, how to be okay with money. And it is you're right. Like finances, romance, and finance teach us the most about our psychology.2 (34m 24s):Yeah. Yeah. Romance finance. I love that. 1 (34m 28s):I think that my boss at Lutheran social services to say all the time, finance and romance, romance, and finance, that's what all these addictions are about is that's how you see them. I'm like, she's right. I mean, she was, I liked her. She was bonkers, but I liked her. She said some good. She, she also is famous for saying, and she didn't say it, but she would always quote, the, no one gets out of here alive. You know, none of us getting out of here life, we might as well start2 (34m 54s):. Well, today on the podcast, we were talking to Carol Schweid and original cast member of the original production of a chorus line on Broadway. She's got great stories to tell she's a fascinating person. And I think you're going to really enjoy this conversation with Carol Schweid. Exactly. Carol shrine. Congratulations. You survived theater school. I did. You did.2 (35m 34s):And where did you go to theater school. Okay. First of all,3 (35m 38s):Let me just take my coffee, my extra coffee off of the stove and put it on my table. Cause it's gonna burn because we don't want that.4 (35m 51s):Okay. You're I am looking for a cop. If you have one, you know, this is ridiculous.3 (36m 2s):Hi there. Hi. This is a riot that you talk about surviving theater school. I think it's great. Okay. So this is working, right? You can hear me. Yeah, no, totally. A hundred percent. So this is my, I started college at Boston university. I was an acting major, which I loved. I really did, but I, what I loved more than anything was I loved the history of the theater. We had a great professor who told the tales of the gladiators and the, you know, the gladiators on the island and the fighting, and then the island, the survivors, and then the island would slowly sink into the water.3 (36m 45s):What is this? What did I miss? It was the early history of the theater. It was starting on the church steps. It was, you know, the second, whatever all of that history was, I found it really interesting. I also loved the station shop crew stuff. I liked learning about lighting. I was terrible at it. I, you know, I would fall off ladder, but I, I, I enjoyed the backstage stuff as much as I enjoy. I just, I liked it. I, we did the rose tattoo and my, and my first job was to take care of the goat. I was on the prop crew.3 (37m 28s):I took care of the goat. Was it a stuffed goat? No, it was a real goat. Wow. What can I tell you? The rose tattoo. There's a goat in the play. I didn't realize you could have livestock and colleges, college, whatever it was. I look like I have jaundice with is that something's wrong with the light jump I sent you stop your, where is the microphone part of your, do you want me to hold it up better? Because when you move, it hits your shirt and it makes like a scratching, right? That's right. I'll do it this way. I won't move around. When you look tan, you look, you don't like jaundice at all. Okay. Well then that's all right. Good. Thanks. Were the goat handlers.3 (38m 8s):Good to talk to you. I mean, that was, and I didn't mind, I didn't mind being an usher. All of those things, you know, I remember somebody sitting us down and saying, you're you are the first person. The audience we'll meet tonight as an usher. I took all of the stuff I did, but the acting business was very confusing to me. I didn't quite know. I had done a lot of theater and dancing and been in the shows and stuff, but I really, I was a little more of a dancer than an actor. I'd taken class in the city. I'd followed some cute guy from summer camp to his acting class. But half the time, I honestly didn't understand a word.3 (38m 48s):Anybody said, I just, nobody does. I really didn't get it so much at the time I loved it, but I didn't always get it. And for some reason, and I have no idea where this, why this happened. I had a boyfriend in summer stock whose mother worked at Barnard and her best friend was a woman named Martha Hill. Martha Hill ran the dance department at a school called Julliard. Nope. I had no idea. Cool. Just a little, nothing school. This is back in the day. It's a long time ago. It was just a plain old school. It wasn't like a school, you know, where you bow down. And I really was a very good dancer and always loved dancing.3 (39m 33s):You know, I've been dancing since I'm like a kid, a little five or six or whatever. So I was a little disenchanted with my successes at Boston U even though I had friends, I was having a great time. I mean, Boston in the late sixties was amazingly fun, but I felt like I wasn't getting it. I mean, it wasn't a school that was cutting people. Thank God, because that would have been torture. I don't know how anybody survives that, but I audition for this dance department in this school called Juilliard and got in and then told my parents that I was going to change colleges. I remember making up a dance in the basement of my dorm in Boston.3 (40m 17s):Cause you had a sort of take class and then you had to show something that you should have made up. And somebody else from college was leaving school to come to New York to be a singer. So we decided we were going to be roommates. And then we had a summer stock. Somebody at BU started some summer theaters. So I had a job or two, I think I had some friends from there. So I ended up moving, changing colleges and going to Juilliard. And I spent three years there. I was a modern dancer major. So we had the Limone company, including Jose Lamone wow teachers and the Graham company.3 (40m 59s):I mean, Martha, Martha Graham did not teach, but her company did as a winter and Helen, I was Helen McGee. One of the, they were maniacs. I mean, they're, they're like gods and goddesses and their whole life is about dance. And I was one of those demonstrators for her eight o'clock beginning class, my third year of school. I mean, I, it was all about technique. We had amazing ballet teachers. We had Fiorella Keane who, I mean, Anthony tutor taught class there and he was Anthony. I mean, so I got a out of being at that school that I have never lost. I mean, I can, I'm making up the answers for high school kids now really.3 (41m 42s):I'm just finishing up a production of grease, which is really kind of boring, but whatever I liked Greece, tell me more. Yeah. It's okay. If you hear it enough, you really get sick of it. Well, that's true. Yeah. I mean high school kids doing high school kids is like, Jesus, God, you just want to slit your throat. The moodiness when it comes to the girls. I mean, I love them. I really love them. I love the guys because puppies, they fall all over each other and they're fabulous, but that's a lie anyway. So I did something that I don't know why I did it and how it worked out. That way I left. I had a very best friend in college that was, you know, and I came to New York and made, made and shared an apartment with this slightly crazy woman.3 (42m 32s):And a year later I got myself a studio apartment on west end avenue and 71st street. And my mom co-signed the lease. And I spent three years dancing, honestly dancing almost every day. I wanted to take sights singing, but they wouldn't let me because I was in the dance department. And I didn't know, you could advocate for that. Sure. I didn't know. You could take classes at Columbia. I mean, who had time anyway, but was it a three-year program? It was a four year program, but I had taken a music class at BU that was like music appreciation one. Yeah. And for whatever reason, they gave me credit for that.3 (43m 14s):So I had a full year credit. Yep. Three years of Juilliard where I really worked my tail off. What's weird about it is that I am, you know, just a plain old Jewish girl from New Jersey, you know, a middle-class Jewish girlfriend. And to, to think that I could have a profession where people don't talk and don't eat, which is what the answers do is a riot to me. Yeah. Yeah. It's an absolute riot because you know, I mean, that should be basically the manual for dancers. Don't talk, don't eat, but I always knew that I was heading to Broadway. I really have always wanted to do that.3 (43m 55s):And I, and, and w was not really ever in question that I would, I somehow assumed if I worked hard and figured it out enough, I would find my way to working on Broadway. And I, and I made the right choice in the sense of switching colleges. Because in the seventies, if you look at your list of Broadway shows, all the directors were choreographers. They were all dancers, all of them Fauci, Michael Bennett champion, all of them. So I started working when I got out of school, you know, it was, and I had already done a couple of summers of summer stock and I did a summer Bushkill pencil, you know, these ridiculous, stupid theaters all over, but it was a blast.3 (44m 36s):It was fun. Where, what was your first job out of school? I was still, I was in school and it was the Mount Suttington Playhouse, which was like a tin shell in Connecticut. And I think it was still in college. Cause two guys from school had opened this theater at the skiing place, but it wasn't skiing. Then it was a sh it was like a tin shell. So couldn't really do a show when it was raining very well. And I believe it was stopped the world. I want to get off and I can still remember the Alto harmony to some of the songs. So you okay. Wait, so you don't consider, you didn't consider yourself a, an actor or did you?3 (45m 20s):Well, I did, but I think what happened was I had to audition for something. It'd be you like, they had grad programs and it wasn't that I was unsuccessful there, but somebody came and I didn't get cast. I didn't get hired. And I didn't understand, you know, like they give you all these acting exercises. We do sense memory. Well, I didn't know they were exercises. I didn't, they were they're like plea aids. Right. They're like learning things. I took this all very seriously. I would stand in a room and try to feel it was like that song from chorus line, you know, try to feel the emotion, feel the, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.3 (46m 5s):I did all of that. I didn't really understand the simple, what am I want here? And what's in my way of trying to get it. Yeah. It took me so long to find teachers that I really could understand and make me a better actor. So when did you find them? When did you start to find them? Oh, that's interesting. Well, I found a couple of good teachers in New York. I mean, honestly there was a woman named Mary Tarsa who had been in the group theater and an older lady. I mean, it's a long time ago anyway, you know, but I remember sitting in her class and she would talk about using imagery and th and I started to sort of understand a little bit, which is amazing to me because after I moved to Westport and I met, do you know the name Phoebe brand?3 (46m 58s):Yeah. Phoebe brand was in our theater workshop. Oh, taught a class. She was already up in her eighties and she taught a class, a Shakespeare class on Sunday mornings. And all of a sudden these things that I didn't understand from decades before. Hmm. It sort of pulled it all together. But for me, I went, I was in California after I got married and moved to LA for a couple of years, found a teacher named John LAN and Lee H N E and two years in his class. I started to really understand how to do it. And then when I came back to New York, he sent me to Michael Howard and Michael Howard, Michael Howard was a great teacher for me.3 (47m 44s):He's still a great, I don't know if he's still around if he's teaching or not, but he was a wonderful teacher. And I started to understand how to do it. Was Len the, did he teach the method or what was yes, he was, he was an actor studio teacher. And I started to understand about being present on the stage and being able to deal with people. All of it, it just changed dramatically. I mean, I started to understand what this was about and seeing other good actors and chipping away at it and finding people to rehearse with. And1 (48m 22s):You, you, from what I know, and what I'm gathering is that once you graduated Juilliard, you were cast in New York.3 (48m 30s):Well, you know, I did get my very, my V I I've. I mean, I, I remember going to see midnight cowboy, which was about the same time as I got out of college. And I remember going into a terrible panic of, oh my God. I mean, really scared about all of it. And I, I went, I joined a class that a friend of mine, somebody told me about this class, you know, I always follow somebody to a class. I'm always, I have good friends. And I, somebody says, oh, I love this guy come to class and I'd show up.3 (49m 12s):And this was a musical comedy singing class, kind of where there were writers in the class and actors in the class. And the writers in the class would work on a musical that they didn't have permission for. It wasn't like they were, we were doing this for money or for, for future. So my friend who I became friends with wrote her musical version of barefoot in the park and which has never been done, but I remember I was in it and this guy was in it. And we, it was the kind of a class where it was a very warm, funny group, funny group of wacko theater people. And I would go to open calls and I'd usually go to open dance calls because that was a door for me.3 (49m 59s):And also I used to have to sneak out of Jew, not sneak necessarily, but essentially sneak out to take my singing lessons. And I took singing lessons every, you know, every week for years, for three years, I would, you know, and I, and I was not really, I don't think a very good singer, but I became a good singer. I would sneak out of school and go to an acting class. I don't even know when I started that, but I know that I would find the time to do it and then talk about acting and find a teacher so that when I would audition for a musical and I would get through the dancing. Usually if I got through the first cut, I would make it to the end. I wouldn't always get the job, but if I made it through that first horrible, random cut, you know, where there's 200 people in your dancing across the stage and it's yes, no, yes, no.3 (50m 47s):Is it really?1 (50m 48s):Because I'm not a dancer. So I never had this. I, when my agents are like, oh, there's an open dance call. I'm like, ah, that's you sent the wrong person, the email. So it's really like that, like in, in chorus line where they say, you know,3 (51m 1s):Oh yeah. It's like all that jazz. It's really like that.2 (51m 6s):Wait, I have a question. I want to hear the re the rest of that. But I, I just, I've never asked anybody. What's the biggest difference between the people who got cut immediately. I mean, was it training or were there people that, in other words, were there people who were just walking in off the street with no training trying to audition? Yeah,1 (51m 29s):No, truly an open call.3 (51m 31s):No. And sometimes these were equity calls. Cause I, I, I did get my equity card on a summer. That one summer I worked for a non-union, you know, we were in either Bushkill Pennsylvania or Southern Eaton Connecticut, or I did a couple of those summers. And then the next summer, the choreographer from that show had an equity job. And he hired like three of us from our non-unions summer stock, because we were good enough. And1 (52m 4s):So when you went to these open calls, everyone, there was a bad-ass dancer. No one, there was like,3 (52m 10s):That's not true. That's not true. There were all different levels of dancers, but it was also a look await, you know, it was always, I was always like seven pounds overweight. It was like, the torture is thing of weight does enough to put anybody over the edge1 (52m 26s):That they literally3 (52m 27s):Weigh you, Carol. Oh God. No. Oh, but it's so look, and I will tell you there's one. There was one time when I remember auditioning for above Fossey show and there were a lot of people on the stage and we were whatever we were doing. And then at 1.3 Fossey dancers, it was their turn. And these three gals, okay. Their hair was perfect. Their makeup was fabulous. They had a little necklace, they had a black leotards, you know, cut up high, but not out of control. Good tights, no, no runs, nice shoes, nails done.3 (53m 7s):And they were fantastic. They were clean. They were technically, and we all sort of went, oh fuck.1 (53m 16s):Right.3 (53m 18s):Right. And I have friends who became Fossey dancers. I mean, I worked for Bob, but I have friends who did a lot of shows him. And they had that same experience where they saw other people, the way it should be. And then they would go back a month later and get the job because they knew what it took. It was all about knowing what it takes. But the thing about having studied acting and having slowly studied singing is that in the world of musical theater, I was ahead of the game because there's not that much time. So you have to be willing to spend all of your time.3 (54m 0s):Right.1 (54m 1s):There are some people I'm assuming Carol, that could dance wonderfully, but couldn't do the singing and the acting part. And that's where you were like, that's the triple threat newness of it all is like, you could do3 (54m 12s):Well, I could do them better than a lot of people. And I certainly could sing well, and I had, I could sing a short song and I knew that you sing a short song. I knew that you'd probably do an uptempo, you know? And also I tend to be a little angry when I go into an audition. It's like, why do I fuck? Do I have to audition? I better, duh. So I needed to find things that allowed me to be a little angry so I could be myself. And I could also be a little funny if I could figure out how to do that. So all of these things worked in my favor. And then of course, like everybody else in her, a lot of people, pat Birch, who was a choreographer, she had like a gazillion shows running, including Greece on Broadway. And now over here, I don't know if she did grease, but she did over here.3 (54m 55s):She did. She was very prolific choreographer. She had been a Martha Graham dancer and she had taught a couple of classes at Julliard. And when it came to my auditioning for her, she needed girls who could dance like boys. She didn't need tall leggy, chorus girls. We were doing the show she was working on, was a show called Minnie's boys. And it was a show about the Marx brothers and the last number of the show. We were all the whole chorus was dressed up like different Marx brothers. And she needed girls who could be low to the ground, who can, you could turn who and I was the right person.3 (55m 36s):And I remember being in that class, that wonderful musical theater class with a teacher named Mervin Nelson, who was just a great older guy who kind of worked in the business. I remember I had to go to my callback. I went to my class and the callback was at night. And I remember him walking me to the door, putting his arm around me and saying, go get the job. And if you don't get this one, we'll get you. The next one1 (56m 4s):That makes me want to3 (56m 4s):Cry. Well, it made me feel like part of the family, cause we all want to be part of that theater family. And so I tend to do that when I'm with an actor, who's going to go get a job or go get, you know, you want to feel like it's possible. Yeah. You feel like you can, you deserve it.1 (56m 29s):You said, you mentioned briefly that you worked for Bob3 (56m 32s):Fossey. I did.1 (56m 35s):Oh my gosh. Did you turn into one of those ladies that looked like a bossy dancer too? Like, did you then show up to those auditions? Like, oh3 (56m 43s):No, I don't think I, I couldn't, I didn't, I could not get into a chorus of Bob Fossey, but I did get to play for strata in Pippin in the, in the, in the first national tour. And he, Bob was the, he was the director and I, I knew I was the right person for that job. It was also a funny, kind of lovely circumstances that I was in some off-Broadway an off-Broadway show that had started as an awful off, off of a, that, that Bubba, that moved to an off-Broadway theater. I got some excellent reviews. And I think the day the review came out was the day I had my audition for Bob Fossey.3 (57m 24s):So I, and I played it. I had talked to people who knew him. I talked to, you know, I, I knew that I, I don't know, I just, I, I had done some work and I just, I don't know the right person at the right time, somebody, he needed it. That part required a good dancer. Who could, I don't know how I got the part. I just,1 (57m 57s):I'm kind of getting the impression that we're talking about being a strong dancer.3 (58m 0s):Well, let's strong dancer. And also being able to, being able to talk and sing was really the key. I'm not sure that I certainly, as a young person, I, I didn't do nearly as much comedy as I did when I got a little older, but, and also there were a lot of divisions. You sort of either did musicals or you did straight plays and it was hard to get into an audition even for a straight play. And the truth is I think that a lot of us who thought we were better than we were as you get better, you see when you really, wasn't a very strong actor.1 (58m 43s):Right. But there's something about that. What I'm noticing and what you're talking about is like, there's something about the confidence that you had by maybe thinking that you might've been a little better than you were that actually behooves young actors and performers that, you know, cause when Gina and I talked to these people were like, oh my God, they have a healthy ego, which actually helps them to not give up as where I was like, I'm terrible. I'm giving up at the first hour.3 (59m 9s):Exactly. Right. Right. And, and it, and it goes back and forth. It's like a CSO one day, you feel like, oh yeah, I'm good at this. I can walk it. I get, I'm like, I'm okay with this. And the next day you just to hide under the bed, I think that's sort of the way it goes. I didn't know that people who worked on Broadway even then all had coaches and teachers and support systems and you know, being kind of a little more of a lone Wolf, which I was, and still fight against in a way I come against that a lot, for whatever reasons, you know, whatever it doesn't work, what to be a lone Wolf.3 (59m 54s):Yeah. Yeah. You can't do this alone. You can't do it without a support system. It's just too hard because when I actually had the best opportunity I had, which was being part of a chorus line, it was harder than I thought to just be normal, come up with a good performance every night, you know, it was up and down and loaded and that you lost your voice and had nobody to talk to because you couldn't talk anyway. And we didn't have the internet yet. You know, there was so many, it was so much pressure and so much, and I hadn't really figured out how to create that support system up for myself.3 (1h 0m 42s):And it was harder, harder than it needed to be. Did you ultimately find it with the cast? No. Oh, not really where they mean, oh, none of the cast was fine. It wasn't that anybody was mean it's that I didn't take care of myself and I didn't know how I was supposed to take care of my shirt. How old were you when you were cast in a chorus line? 27? Maybe I was, I was young and, but I wasn't that young. I just, but it wasn't that C w it was a strange situation to, I was, I had already had one Broadway show, so I had done, and then I had gone out of town to bucks county Playhouse.3 (1h 1m 25s):And did west side story Romeo was your first Broadway show. I'm sorry. It was called Minnie's boys. Oh, that was it. That was my, I did. And it was a show about the Marx brothers. Right. And I don't know if you know who Louis. We would probably do Louis Stadol and Louis J Staglin who works with, he works with Nathan Lane a lot. Oh yeah. Yeah. He's like second bun and he's incredibly talented. He played Groucho. Okay. We were all 25 years old. We were kids. We were right out of college. And the weirdest part of all was that the mother was played by Shelley winters. And this was a musical. What a weird you've really. Okay. So then you went onto chorus line.3 (1h 2m 6s):Well then, well then in between that, this is like, you know, then, then I went out of town to bucks county. I love being in bucks county for a year. We did west side story. We did Romeo and Juliet during the week. We do them together, one in the morning, one in the afternoon for high school kids. And then on the weekends, we do one of the, and I was the only person in the cast who liked dancing at 10 o'clock in the morning. You know, I didn't mind doing west side at 10 in the morning. I'd been up at eight, being a demonstrator for Mary Hinkson, teaching people how to do a contraction. So I didn't care. I love working in the daytime. That's what I play with your food is such a nice success. My lunchtime theaters here, I get tired at night.3 (1h 2m 47s):I don't know.2 (1h 2m 49s):Most people do wait. So was the, was the audition process for chorus line?3 (1h 2m 56s):I have a great story. I can tell you what my story is. Okay. So I, I was in, I don't know what I was doing. I had done a lot of off-Broadway work. I had been doing, I had been working a lot. And then of course there were the year where I didn't work. And then I went off to south North Carolina and played Nellie Forbush in south Pacific, in the dinner theater for three months. And I loved that. Actually, I think it was one of those times I had a job and a boyfriend and it was like a relief. It was wonderful to have like a life and then do the show at night. You know, I, I enjoyed that a lot and I didn't, you know, it was a big part and I didn't panic about seeing it.3 (1h 3m 37s):And it was just, I learned a lot from doing a part like that. I was doing Fiddler on the roof at a dinner theater in New Jersey, down the street from where my folks lived. And occasionally my mom would stop by her rehearsal and watch the wedding scene. Honest to God. I'm not kidding. She's like, Carol, you ever gonna get married? Are you ever gonna? Okay. So I'm doing Fiddler on the roof, in New Jersey. And there's a guy in the cast, one of the bottle dancers who were dropping off at night on 55th street, because he's working on this little musical about dancers and he would bring in monologues and he'd asked me to read them at rehearsal because he wanted to hear them out loud.3 (1h 4m 25s):And there was some stuff about this place to ever hear the peppermint lounge back in the studio. Right. It was a disco thing, but it was also a place where there was something. I remember one the couch girls, girls who would just lie on the couches and the guys, I mean really crazy stuff that did not make it into the show, but some interesting stuff. And I was playing the eldest daughter sidle, and it's a terrific part for me. So I was good. Yeah. And Nick knew I was a dancer. Anyway, this little show called the chorus line was in its workshop. Second workshop. They had already done the I, cause I was not a Michael Bennett dancer. I didn't, you know, I, I, I had auditioned for my goal once for the tour of two for the Seesaw.3 (1h 5m 10s):And it was the leading part and I didn't get it. I auditioned, I sang and I read and I read and I sang and I didn't get the part. And I came home and I was like in hysterics for like five days. I just, you know, I, I didn't get the part year and a half later, I'm doing Fiddler on the roof with Nick, Dante in New Jersey. And somebody leaves the second workshop and Nick brings up my name because there's a job all of a sudden to cover, to be in the opening and to cover a couple of parts next, bring up my name. And Michael Bennett says, wait a minute. I know her. I know she's an actress and she's a singer. Can she dance?3 (1h 5m 52s):So I showed up the next morning and I danced for 10 minutes and I got the job. I mean, I think, wow. Yeah. That's a great story.2 (1h 6m 1s):No. So that means you didn't have to participate in3 (1h 6m 4s):Callbacks or nothing. Oh, I started that day. I mean, honestly, it was Fiddler on the roof, you know what, I don't remember whether, how it went. Cause we were already in performance tour or something, you know, I, I it's a long time ago, so I don't really remember, but I know that this particular story is the absolute truth. That's fantastic. That2 (1h 6m 27s):Was it a hit right away3 (1h 6m 29s):Chorus line. Well, it wasn't, we were in previews. I'm no, we weren't even previous the second workshop, which means it was still being figured out. And when I came to the first rehearsal and sat and watched what was going on, I could not believe what I was seeing because the truth of what was happening on stage and the way it was being built was astounding. It was absolutely astounding because something about it was so bizarre. Oh. And also, also Marvin Hamlisch was the rehearsal pianist on Minnie's boys.3 (1h 7m 10s):Wow. So I knew him a little bit, not well, you know, but he was the rehearsal pianist that nobody would listen to a show about the Marx brothers, Marvin would say, wait, this is the Marx brothers. You got to have a naked girl running out of the orchestra pit. You gotta, you gotta, and of course, nobody would listen to him. Wait a minute, just turn this off, stop, stop, turn off. Sorry. So I couldn't get over what I was seeing. And I, I knew from the beginning, of course, I think most of us did that. Something very, very unique was going on and it was always changing. Like Donna McKechnie came in late at the audition, all dressed up in like a fur thing.3 (1h 7m 56s):And it was like, I'm sorry, I'm late. I'm sorry. I'm late. And then Zach says, would you put on dance clothes? And she said, no, no, wait a minute. Anyway, you couldn't help. But know sort of, you just kind of put,2 (1h 8m 8s):I mean, I remember seeing it when I was a kid and not, not being able to relate as an actor, but now that I think back, it just must've felt so gratifying to be seen for all of the, you know, because like we w the Joe Montana episode, we3 (1h 8m 28s):Haven't listened to yet, but I'm looking forward to2 (1h 8m 30s):It here today. But he was saying, I love3 (1h 8m 33s):Him2 (1h 8m 34s):For you. You were saying that when he won the Tony and everybody would say, well, it's like to win the Tony, what's it? Like he said, it's like, you won the lottery, but you been buying tickets for 15 years. You know, that's the part of acting that people now, I think it's a pretty common knowledge that it's really difficult to be an actor, but I don't know how Hmm, how known that was then. And it just, must've been so gratifying for all of those people. I mean, who are living in their real life? The story of that musical. Yeah.3 (1h 9m 9s):I think that that's true. And also, I mean, it really did come out of people's experiences. Those stories are so, so to be part of something like that, and down at the public theater, which of course it was a vol place to be, you know, you, you knew that Meryl Streep was walking down the hallway and you knew that. I mean, talk about confidence. I mean, I don't know if you've read her new book, no book about her. No, it's worth the time I listened to it. Actually, I didn't read it. I listened to, it's quite wonderful because you see a very confident person who's working on creating who she is.1 (1h 9m 47s):Do you feel, I feel like you have a really strong sense of confidence about yourself too. Where did that come from? Would you agree? First of all, that you have, it sounds like you had some comps, some real chutzpah as a youngster and maybe now as well. Where'd that come from3 (1h 10m 5s):Beats me. I have it now because I, I, I, I've had a lot of, a lot of experience. And I, I think that, that, I, I think I know a lot about this, but I don't know that I had it. The trick was to have this kind of confidence when it really matters. Yes. And I think I had it, like if I was in an off-Broadway show, I could say, I don't think that's good enough. Could you restage this blah, blah, blah. Or if I'm in North Carolina, I'm not, I think we need to dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. But when it comes down to the real nitty gritty of standing up for yourself, when it really, really matters, boy, that's harder than it looks.3 (1h 10m 51s):You know, even things like, I mean, my character, when I eventually took over the role of Miralis, which I under, you know, I was we've covered all these parts. There were nine of us. We sang in the little booth in the wings. We had microphones and little headsets. And the coolest part of all was Jerry Schoenfeld, who was the chairman of the Schubert organization would bring any visiting dignitary who was visiting the city that he was showing around his theaters. He would bring them into our little booth. And then we would watch the show from stage left in our little booth while we're singing, give me the ball, give him the ball. Cause half the dancers on the stage, cause stop singing because they had a solo coming up.3 (1h 11m 31s):So, you know, singing in a musical is not easy. You know, there's a lot of pressure and you got to hit high notes and you, you know, you just wake up in the middle of the night going torture, torture, and you have to work through that and finally go, fuck it. You know, fuck it. I don't care what I weigh. Fuck it. I don't care if I, if I can't hit the high note, but it, it takes a long time to get there. You know, I see people who do this all the time. I don't know how they live. I don't know how they sleep at night. There's no wonder people like to hire singers who have graduated from programs where they really understand their voice, know how to protect that, which you don't, you know, you have to learn, you have to learn how to really take.3 (1h 12m 24s):That's why, you know, it's wondering about ballet companies now have misuses and we didn't have any of that. You were hanging out there alone. I felt maybe I'm wrong, but that's how I felt. And if I was vulnerable or if I didn't feel well, and I was like, oh, what am I going to do? I can't tell anybo

The Bert Show
Is This Teacher Being Totally Disrespectful To Her Student?

The Bert Show

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 22, 2021 12:28


There's nothing more irritating than someone CONSISTENTLY saying (or spelling) your name wrong. It's such a sign of disrespect that they couldn't even care enough to learn it. But what if they're technically getting your name absolutely correct...it's just not what you want to be called?This listener's son is upset because the teacher won't call him by his name - his NICKNAME, that is. She's siding with her son...but her husband is siding with the teacher!But first, this employee quit in the most epic way possible... See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Become a member at https://plus.acast.com/s/the-bert-show.

EmpowerHER
[PEP TALK] The Powerful Reminder you Might Need that YOUR EXAMPLE MATTERS

EmpowerHER

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 22, 2021 15:03


Sometimes we get caught up in looking at the woman a few steps ahead of us thinking, “why can't I be like HER”, “I'll never be AS GOOD AS her”, or maybe you feel like you're failing because life is all over the place & you're second guessing yourself…... But what if we stopped to remember, while there's always going to be a woman a few steps ahead of us that we can look up to.. WE are also a few steps ahead to OTHER WOMEN who are looking up to US TOO. This episode is all about reminding you that YOUR EXAMPLE MATTERS. Can't wait to hear what you think! Wanna connect more outside of the podcast?  #1- Come jump in our *TOTALLY FREE* EmpowerHER Podcast LISTENER COMMUNITY group! If you LOVE this podcast & want to connect with like minded women from ALL across the globe that love it too, you don't need to be a podcaster or entrepreneur, this group is for anyone that wants to hop in!!You can request to join here: www.kaciafitzgerald.com/freegroup where you will get a bounce back email with the Facebook link! #2- Be sure to hop on my TOTALLY free TEXT list called #TextsFromKac Where you can join to get PUMP UP texts from me and all the JUICY news and fun perks!  Text a salsa dancer emoji or just come say HI via text +1 512-548-2728 to subscribe!   www.kaciafitzgerald.com/texts#3- My favorite social media platform (Instagram): My personal account→ @kacia.fitzgeraldOur company account  --->  @shegoes.company 

How To Love Lit Podcast
Walt Whitman - Leaves Of Grass - The Poetry Of Young America!

How To Love Lit Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 20, 2021 41:53


Walt Whitman - Leaves Of Grass - The Poetry Of Young America!   Hi, I'm Christy Shriver and we're here to discuss books that have changed the world and have changed us.    I'm Garry Shriver and this is the How to Love Lit Podcast.  This episode and next, we tackle one of the most intimidating poets in the American Canon- Walt Whitman.  He is the generally accepted and almost uncontested greatest contribution America has made to the great canon of World Literature- the ones comprised of those that really intimidate- William Shakespeare,  James Joyce, Gustave Flaubert, Vladimir Nabokov, Gabriel Garcia Marquez, Pablo Neruda, Ovid, Goethe, Neitche-, Dante- people like that- there are not too many Americans that make that list.    And he does intimidate me- truly.  And honestly he baffles me.  The things he says seem easy to understand except I don't actually understand them.  They are beautiful and interesting but also uncomfortable.  People love his writing and always have, but he's also very offensive- and he offends all equally- the prude and the religious, but also the secular and intellectual- he offends the socialist as well as the capitalist.  Name an identity- he references it and somewhat dismantles it.  Primarily because he absolutely rejects group identities as we think of them today- even in terms of nations but in every sense.  To use his words, “I am large; I contains multitudes” that's a paraphrase from my favorite selection of his work which we'll read today.      For me he's such a curious person in part because of the time he emerged in what was called then the American experiment- and I honestly think his perspective has a lot to do from this unique time period, of course this is not different than how I feel about all of the writers we discuss.  But being born in 1819, the United States of America is only 36 years older than he is.  His parents were present during the Revolutionary War and have a real respect for what people were trying to do here, and how unusual and fragile democratic government actually was or really is.  We, at least we here in the United States, live with the feeling that this country just always has been- that democracy just happens.  That elections are just things that have always happened.  Most students today in this country don't even think about it. Democracy is the normal order in how things occur; equality and liberty are just virtues that everyone agrees are important- by one definition or another.  But None of this was reality and common understanding in 1819 in almost any part of the planet Earth.  And most of the world looked at the United States with contempt- a bunch of non-educated hillbillies living in some weird schemata that wouldn't stand the test of time.  There was no culture in this country, by international standards.  We had no great art, no history to speak of, we weren't writing great philosophies or composing great music.  We had not produced a Voltaire, or a Jean-Jacques Rousseau.  We had no Catherine the Great or Cosimo De Medici sponsoring great artistic ventures.        And so enters Walt Whitman- to which he would say, and did say- whoopdeedoo Europe- you are correct- we have none of that, and I celebrate that we don't.      I want to begin with this famous poem by Whitman.  Of course, it's from Leaves of Grass which we'll introduce in a second, but if you are reading the Death bed edition which is the one I have- again I'll explain all that later, it's in the beginning, that very first part called “Inscriptions”.  Let me read Whitman's famous words on America.     I hear America singing, the varied carols I hear,  Those of mechanics, each one singing his as it should be blithe and strong,  The carpenter singing his as he measures his plank or beam,  The mason singing his as he makes ready for work, or leaves off work,  The boatman singing what belongs to him in his boat, the deckhand singing on the steamboat deck,  The shoemaker singing as he sits on his bench, the hatter singing as he stands,  The wood-cutter's song, the ploughboy's on his way in the morning, or at noon intermission or at sundown,  The delicious singing of the mother, or of the young wife at work, or of the girl sewing or washing,  Each singing what belongs to him or her and to none else,  The day what belongs to the day—at night the party of young fellows, robust, friendly,  Singing with open mouths their strong melodious songs.      Garry, I want to hear your first thoughts when you read this poem.  Let me start by saying, notice how celebratory it is.  America is singing carols- not dirges- and the song of the American is the song of hard work- not the Vienna Philharmonic- which by the way was founded in 1842.  America was not building art, as commonly understood- we were building lives- free lives- lives where people lived with the choices they made, but they got to make their own choices.  This is very different than anywhere else- places more cultured, more sophisticated, more idealized.  We don't have serfs working for great lords or ladies.  We have no jet-setters so to speak- or people of privilege or high cultural standing- In America we work hard,  but we work for ourselves-and everyone does it- and that is something we're proud of.  There is no shame in labor.  There's a song to that.      Yes, it's very much about homestead.  It's about individualism and taking responsibility to create it- About creating your own little corner of the world.  This is exactly the idea that Alexis DeToqueville referenced in his important work Democracy in America.  As a Frenchman, he was totally surprised and impressed with this very thing that Whitman is talking about.  This poem is a complete refutation of the English feudal system and that's what Northerners loved about it.  In the South, and what was so offensive to Whitman when he spent time in New Orleans was that they were trying to recreate that hierarchal system where some people outrank others to the point of claiming they weren't even human- and that, to Whitman, was the complete opposite of what the entire American Experiment was about.      His parents were clearly on team America- he had one brother named George Washington Whitman, another named Thomas Jefferson Whitman and a third named Andrew Jackson Whitman.       Ha- I guess that IS a statement.  This unique time of history in which he lived allowed Whitman to see such great contrasts in America- he saw democracy and success found in personal effort.  He saw vast amounts of unpolluted natural beauty, but he also saw evil at its most deranged, and pain and loneliness at its most intense.  We have to remember that his parents lived through the glorious revolutionary war, but he lived during the treacherous Civil War- and his perspective and life experience is very different. He admired the expanse of the West. He loved the natural beauty of this continent, but he also was horrified and despised to its core – the. National plague that has defined and still defines so much of the American story- this legacy of slavery- his views on such, btw- got him fired by more than one employer, btw.  At this time, newspapers were owned and operated by political parties, and he was always slipping in views that the political operatives didn't like- so he got fired.       HA!  Well, I guess some things never change.    One thing that baffles and almost offends most academics is Whitman's absolute nothing of an academic background.  His parents were basically illiterate, his family was excessively large and chaotic; today we would say dysfunctional.  He had one sibling that actually had to be committed to an insane asylum.   His formal education was inadequate because his father sent him out to work.  It's so ironic that the greatest American poet had no formal tutelage to except what he scrounged up for himself in his own self-taught way by reading in libraries and attending operas.  He didn't have that option.  His father was also pretty much a financial failure.  He was a carpenter by trade, but had also had a little property.  His father speculated in real estate after moving to Brooklyn, NY, but wasn't all that great at business and ended up losing most of it.      And of course, that's the problem with the land of opportunity- you are kind of out there on your own to make it or break it.  And people were very aware of this.  There was no guarantee, at all, that America would even survive as a country.  It was still an experiment.  No one else was living like this.  Europeans had monarchies; the South American countries were colonies.  Our neighbors to the East were living in empires.  Only this little backward nation in a corner of North America was trying to do this weird thing.    And Whitman loved it.  He really did.  He loved the land.  He loved the cities.  He loved the people.  He spent the first 36 years of his life walking around and observing life, mostly in New York City and Long Island (which was NOT a suburb of New York at that time).    He loved the libraries and spent tons of time there reading.  He loved music, especially opera, which we'll notice has a strong influence on how he writes.  He loved learning, listening and observing, and this is what he wrote about.  I heard one lecturer say that he was the first non-blind poet- which I thought was weird and what made it stand out.  But what the professor meant was that most poets were writing about their inner life, things from their imagination- think Edgar Allan Poe and “The Raven”, but Whitman, in many cases, was transcribing things that he was seeing and hearing in urban life- and this was very different.  He would catalogue it- to use a word that is often used to describe this thing that we just saw him do in the poem we just read, make these long lists of details in these long sentences.         I also want to point out that it was this desire to self-educate that led him, like many of his day, to be influenced and challenged by the great Ralph Waldo Emerson. We'll do an entire episode or more than one of him, but Emerson's non-conventional ideas about nature and the soul and our inter-connectedness, although ideas that were commonly accepted in the far East, were new on this continent.      True- well, In 1855, something happened.  Whitman self-publishes the book Leaves of Grass.  This first version was only 95 pages long- that's compared to the death bed one which has 415 in my copy.   There was no author's name on the cover.  Instead, on the first page there was this image of a man in laborer's clothes.  Whitman only reveals that he's the author through one of the first unnamed poems calling himself, “Walt Whitman, an American, one of the roughs, a kosmos.”    If you look up the word Kosmos in the dictionary it will tell you that that word means- a complex orderly self-inclusive system- which is interesting to think about someone describing themselves as- but it's a Greek word.  It's also a Biblical word- which is how I believe Whitman would know it.  It is used in the New Testament to mean the universe or the creation as a whole- that's how Whitman defines himself in this poem “Song of Myself”  and the context of how he wants us to understand his work and who we are as individuals.  We too are kosmos.      Well, it didn't start out very cosmic- that's for sure.  It's a miracle Leaves of Grass came to be read by anyone.  He self-published it, literally type-setting it himself.  He printed 795 copies and sold almost none of them.     Don't you wish you had one of those originals?    I know right, well, people do.  In case you're in the market, there are 200 that are still around, and in 2014, one sold at Christie's for $305,000.  It's so ironic- Whitman struggled financially until the day he died and celebrated working people in everything he wrote.  What do you think he would think of that, Christy?    I have zero doubt, he would love it.  Totally.  Beyond being the book's publisher, he also was the book's publicist.  He sent copies to the leading poets of the day trying to drum up some good reviews.  Whittier was said to thrown his copy into the fire he was so offended and outraged- the homoerotic imagery was more than he could handle, but Ralph Waldo Emerson saw it for what it was and wrote Whitman back an amazing letter of encouragement.  Let me quote Emerson, “I am not blind to the worth of the wonderful gift of Leaves of Grass. I find it the most extraordinary piece of wit and wisdom that America has yet contributed.”  And of course, to this day, many world class literary scholars still think this about Whitman.       What I find humorous about Whitman is that he wrote glowing reviews of his book himself secretly and published them as if they were written by other people.       Yeah, he was working the influencer thing way back before that was a thing- He also, printed Emerson's actual glowing review when he reprinted the book in 1856, except he didn't get Emerson's permission to do so.  He put Emerson's words, “I greet you at the beginning of a great career” on the spine of the book and he published the entire letter with a long reply andress to Dear Master.”  It was NOT received well by Emerson.      I can see that as being slightly presumptuous.      Of course it was, but I would be tempted as well.  He really admired Emerson, in fact this is what he said about Emerson's influence on his writing.  “I was simmering, simmering, simmering; Emerson brought me to a boil.”    I want us to read the very first part of Song of Myself which was the first poem    I Celebrate myself, and sing myself,  And what I assume you shall assume,  For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you.  I loafe and invite my soul,  I lean and loafe at my ease observing a spear of summer grass.  My tongue, every atom of my blood, form'd from this soil, this air,  Born here of parents born here from parents the same, and their parents the same,  I, now thirty-seven years old in perfect health begin,  Hoping to cease not till death.  Creeds and schools in abeyance,  Retiring back a while sufficed at what they are, but never forgotten,  I harbor for good or bad, I permit to speak at every hazard,  Nature without check with original energy.  This is what I mean when I say, it seems like it's very simple to understand except I've read this poem hundreds of times and am still slightly confused as to what he means.  The term for this is ambiguous- he makes you, as a reader, put your own interpretation, put yourself into the lines to force the meaning out of it.      True, and if you take it at face value just superficially, it may seem that this is a narcissist celebrating egotism, but it clearly doesn't.  It also could be misunderstood to mean he celebrates idleness and laziness, but that doesn't seem to be right either.    Exactly- I love these first lines.  First of all, they are so iconic.  One thing Whitman is known for besides the cataloguing which I mentioned when we read I Hear America Singing, is this thing that today we call Free Verse. Whitman is often given credit for inventing the concept, although that is debatable.  But what is obvious is that there is no rhyme or meter of any kind at all and there isn't supposed to be.  He doesn't want anything to rhyme.  Instead, he wants to write in these really long sentences.  Every stanza is a single sentence, and he is going to do that through the entire poem.  Whitman felt you couldn't get your idea out in these little short phrases of iambic tetrameter like his Whittier, the guy who threw his book in the fire, was doing.  Whitman wanted, above all else, to create a sense of intimacy between himself and the person reading- and so he wanted to make sure you could follow his idea- from idea to idea.  He got this idea from two places- first he copied the idea from the one book he had been familiar with since his childhood- the King James Version of the Bible.  He copied the style like you see in the Psalms or even the Sermon on the Mount.  He also got the idea from the opera- if you think about opera- you also have these long phrases- that end with things like figaro figaro fiiiigaro-     Is that your impression of the opera?    Well, as you know, I enjoy the opera.  I haven't always, to be honest.  A few years ago, my good friend, I've mentioned her on the podcast before, Millington AP Literature/ Lang teacher Amy Nolette, coerced me to attend with her- and I did.  She is an accomplished musician so she really taught me how to admire what was going on- and we went every year for several years until Covid hit.  But, having said that, I'm fairly sure, that's my best attempt at singing opera.      But back to Whitman, so one of the first things that Whitman is famous for today is this concept of Free Verse- it was innovative then, but now, it doesn't seem that big of a deal.  That was a big deal, but a bigger deal to Whitman were the ideas he was putting out there.    I celebrate myself- not because I'm so important- not because I have all this amazing heritage or skill or anything- I celebrate myself because I have an essence that is 100% unique to me.  Let's read it again.     I Celebrate myself, and sing myself,  And what I assume you shall assume,  For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you.  It's not accidental that he throws in there that scientific language.  And this is where he will offend the capitalist or competitive side of us.  He makes this bold assertion- in this poetic way- to say- what, do you think you're that much better than me- you are made of the exact same material I am- we're both made of atoms- science teaches us that- and for every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you.      In some sense it's the I'm okay- you're okay attitude, but taking it up a notch- I celebrate myself- you celebrate yourself.      For sure, and something we all give lip-service to today but no one actually really believes.  I have a creative writing assignment that I ask my students to do every year.  We take another Whitman poem called “There was a Child Went Forth” that talks about identity and the physical objects and places that influence who you are- it's a wonderful poem, anyway, I ask my students to write a poem using Whitman's style and technique about THEIR lives.  I tell them we're going to read them in small groups, and if they like what they wrote and feel comfortable,  we are going to print them and put them outside my door in the hallway for everything to read.  At first they are very very resistant to the idea.  They all hate it- first because it's writing, secondly because it's poetry- but mostly because they don't think they want their lives sprawled on the hallway of the school.  I had a sweet darling child, actually a quiet student, raise her hand in protest and literallty say, I don't want to do this.  I can't do this.  All I do is go to school and work- there is nothing interesting at all about my life.      Ha!  She seems to have missed the point.  She didn't want to celebrate herself and she's exactly the kind of person Whitman loved celebrating.    Exactly- and lots of my kids are like that- they work at Sonic, Chick-Fila- the mall- mowing lawns- but in her case, it turns out she is way more interesting and her poem is on the wall right now.  I may take a picture and post it on our website, so you can see them all.  I'm very proud of my kiddos- not just because they produced good poems but because lots of them are hardworking.       I will say, that next phrase leads us to think that Whitman is a lazy person.  He extols the virtue of loafing.  But of course, what I know about his biography which we'll get more into next week when we talk about his experiences in the Civil War and all of that, but Whitman was the very opposite of lazy.  He was an extremely physical hard worker.      True- Let's read the lines you're talking about..    I loafe and invite my soul,  I lean and loafe at my ease observing a spear of summer grass.  When he says I loaf and invite my soul- he's getting into the philosopher side of him that is so complex and we really don't even have time to go there today, but it's that old idea of contemplating- today what we call mindfulness.  And I have to admit, I'm not good at this.        He really believes in mindfulness although he didn't know we renamed his concept for him.  Loafe- meaning chill out- turn off the phone, turn off the tv, turn off the computer and invite your soul into yourself.  Chill out!!!  Stop and observe a spear of grass.  Just look at it- let your mind go there- let it focus on something small- it's the kind of thing the yoga instructors keep telling us to do, that we rarely heed but we all know we should.      Exactly- attention and silence- he things they are indispensable to a sane existence- and two things I'm not all that good at.  And then we get to these last two sentences in this opening little poem-    My tongue, every atom of my blood, form'd from this soil, this air,  Born here of parents born here from parents the same, and their parents the same,  I, now thirty-seven years old in perfect health begin,  Hoping to cease not till death.  Creeds and schools in abeyance,  Retiring back a while sufficed at what they are, but never forgotten,  I harbor for good or bad, I permit to speak at every hazard,  Nature without check with original energy.  There's a lot to say- but he's going to say- I'm proud to be from this place- my parents are from this place.  I'm 37- that is not young.  He is not a child prodigy- he's writing his first book late in life, relatively- he knows that- but he says I'm in good health and I begin- and I'm not going to stop until death- I'm going to live well all the way til the end- I'm not going to give up on myself.  Ever.      I can see why he's inspiring.  And I to get back to this idea of origins.  You know being an American today is something lots of people are proud of (although it is very American to trash our own country) but that's part of our national ethos- but even these same people proudly display their passport.  America is a powerful country and a rich country.  At that time it was a new country- and new countries don't have the safety of heritage and sometimes the people who come from them have trouble taking pride in their heritage.    I totally know what you're talking about.  There was a listener who connected with us through our Instagram page and showed us some beautiful pictures he had taken.  They were truly amazing- not only were the mountains breathtakingly gorgeous in their own right, but his eye for framing was genius.  I messaged him back and told him what I thought of his art.  We went back and forth and I finally asked him.  Where are you from? And he would never tell me.  He said he was from Central Asia and so fort which I eventually gathered he is from one of the new countries formally part of the USSR.   I'm not saying he was ashamed of where he was from, I didn't get that sense, but he seemed intimated that we were from America- a place that seems so far away and idealized from his point of view.  Whitman would tell this young man- you're from that wonderful air,  from wonderful heritage, from atoms just like ours- not just accept it celebrate it.    Because, as I read onward, he seems to imply, this is the attitude that breeds great things that breeds beautiful things but if it doesn't- that's okay as well- keep going all the way til death- compete not with others but with yourself- as he goes to self- publish the same book 8 more times until he does .    Ha!  I guess that's true.      I want to read the last sentence again of that opening because he sets up a lot of the rest of his writings with something of a warning-    Creeds and schools in abeyance,  Retiring back a while sufficed at what they are, but never forgotten,  I harbor for good or bad, I permit to speak at every hazard,  Nature without check with original energy.  Again- that language seems simple but at the same time I have to really work at what he's going to say.  But I have an interpretation- he's going to say this- put away your school learning and your religious training when you read this.  Sit back because I'm going to say some really hard things- that's what he means with that word “hazard”- but they are not mean- they are natural- it's about the energy of being alive.  It's the beauty of being you, of being a physical body, of being an inter-connected spirit with connections to other people and part of this physical space.      And of course, it's that celebration of the physical body that kept getting him censored. Even Ralph Waldo Emerson later when he was reproducing his book begged him to self-censor what was thinly veiled homo-erotic passages, but he just wouldn't.  He didn't see them as erotic- he didn't even see sex like that.  For him sexuality and the physical body had a self-evidence important place in our lives and had to be brought out in the open- be it a hazard or not.  And again, it kind of was a hazard, he lost a really good job in Washington at one point because his boss found a copy of leaves of Grass in his desk and found it obscene.      Poor guy- well, that takes us to the title- Leaves of Grass- and what that even means.  I mentioned that Whitman was famous for his style or innovative literary technique, he has been increasingly praised for his innovative ideas about the body, the self, consciousness- he was one of the first America poets to even write about consciousness- the other one btw is Emily Dickinson.  But probably the thing I like the best about Whitman, and this is me, personally, is his ability to really capture a wonderful metaphor.  He could just say things in an understandable and pretty way- and this is what poetry really is all about- for my money.    This phrase that is the title – Leaves of Grass- it means something.  First let's read the first part of Song of Myself that talks about grass- I'd ask you to read all of it but I think we might get lost. Song of Myself number 6.      A child said What is the grass? fetching it to me with full hands;  How could I answer the child? I do not know what it is any more than he.  I guess it must be the flag of my disposition, out of hopeful green stuff woven.    Or I guess it is the handkerchief of the Lord,  A scented gift and remembrancer designedly dropt,  Bearing the owner's name someway in the corners, that we may see and remark, and say Whose?    Or I guess the grass is itself a child, the produced babe of the vegetation.    Or I guess it is a uniform hieroglyphic,  And it means, Sprouting alike in broad zones and narrow zones,  Growing among black folks as among white,  Kanuck, Tuckahoe, Congressman, Cuff, I give them the same, I receive them the same.  And now it seems to me the beautiful uncut hair of graves.  When Whitman loafs around and stares at grass- he sees a picture of America- or a picture of any democracy any group of people that understand that they are one poeple- of which America was the example he knew, but he's not exclusionary by any means.  He says, look, every single blade of grass is totally different and yet in some sense the same.  He calls it a uniform hieroglyphic- what an interesting turn of phrase.  It's and I use his words here “black folks as among white, kanuck, Tuckahoe, Congreeman, Cuff, I give to me the same, I receive them the same.”    For Whitman, the picture of America was a field of grass.  If we look at it, we see hopeful green woven stuff. The handkerchief of the Lord- but if we look at it closely we're all so different- and both things are truly beautiful.  It's a paradox.   He goes on to say, it's from the land, it's made up of the dust that is made up of the people of the land- I know it gets philosophical- and you can take it as far deep as you want to plunge with him.   But you don't have to get all that deep or esoteric if you don't want to.  You can just lay on the grass, and smell it and enjoy it- loaf on it- to use his words.    You know what I like about that entire image and about Whitman's entire philosophy.  He absolutely spoke of diversity, but he did not celebrate diversity- not like we think of doing that today.  He celebrates unity- and that's why this metaphor is the title.  Whitman had a very refined understanding of how easy we can rip each other apart- there is not more divisive time in American history than the 1850s and of course the 1860s- which are the war years.   He lived through the most divided time in American history and he could see it coming even in 1855.  But during his life time, he would see 2.5% of America's population die killing each other that was 750,000 people- if we would compare it to the population of America today- that would be over 7 million people.  Next week we will see how much he admired Lincoln and what he stood for, but as he understood the American experiment,  he believed in admiring differences and loving them, but identifying as a single group- first and foremost.  The dominant image here is of a single landscape- beautiful and united across time and space respecting the past not judging or condemning it- allowing ourselves to spring from it renewed and refreshed.   And I think that's where the universal appeal comes from.  If Whitman was just about American patriotism, maybe we'd like him in this country, but it would feel propagandistic.  His ideals are universal and apply to any group of people- anywhere.  And he's not afraid to admit-some of thing may be self-contradictory.  The first time I ever read Whitman was in college.  I went to school studying political science, but in my junior year I decided I didn't want to do that anymore and I was going to get an English major, well this meant I had to take almost exclusively classes that demanded intense reading- and all at the same time.  I read so much that they all ran together and my grades were not as good as they could have been had I had a healthier pace.  And in all that reading, not a whole lot stood out- but this little poem by Whitman actually did- I underlined it, and I kept the trade book I purchased at the time.  I actually still have it after all these years and so many moves.  In this little section, Whitman is talking in that intimate way that he talks to his reader- it's personal- it's in the second person- and at that time of my life- it was a very chaotic time to be honest- I had no idea what I was doing in my life, my mother had recently died, I had very little idea what I should do in the future- I had changed directions at the last moment- and these famous words just stood out.  Will you read them?  51  The past and present wilt—I have fill'd them, emptied them.  And proceed to fill my next fold of the future.  Listener up there! what have you to confide to me?  Look in my face while I snuff the sidle of evening,  (Talk honestly, no one else hears you, and I stay only a minute longer.)  Do I contradict myself?  Very well then I contradict myself,  (I am large, I contain multitudes.)  I concentrate toward them that are nigh, I wait on the door-slab.  Who has done his day's work? who will soonest be through with his supper?  Who wishes to walk with me?  Will you speak before I am gone? will you prove already too late?  Christy- what did that mean to you.      I really have no idea.  I think the line that I liked is the line everyone likes, “Do I contradict myself?  Very well then I contradict. Myself.”   It just made me feel better.  I knew I was full of inconsistencies. And Whitman just seemed to be saying- of course you are- everyone is- to understand that is just being honest.  Let it go.  Just concentrate on what is near- what you're doing today, supper- that sort of thing.  If you're successful- that's great- if you're a failure- what difference does it make- we're all the same atoms, we're all just leaves of grass.   He just made me feel okay.    Which I guess that would probably have made him happy- the bard of democracy- known as the good gray poet- speaking across time and space about what it means to be a human- to be a leaf of grass.  Thanks for listeninging- next episode- we will delve a little more into his adult life, read some of his most famous poems – those tributes to Abraham Lincoln- and finish our discussion of this amazing American.  AS always, please share about us with a friend or colleague- push out an episode on your social media feed, text an episode to a friend.  Connect with us on our social media at howtolovelitpodcast on facebook, Instagram, twitter, or Linkedin.  If you are a teacher, visit our website for teaching materials that provide ideas scaffolding for using our podcasts as instructional pieces in your classroom.      Peace out.      

What's Good Games: A Video Game Podcast
Making Games is Totally Easy (LOL) - Ep. 250

What's Good Games: A Video Game Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 19, 2021 80:34


Thank you to ExpressVPN, Felix Gray, and Postmates for sponsoring this episode of What's Good Games! Go to http://expressvpn.com/whatsgoodgames to get 3 months free on a 1-year package. Go to http://felixgrayglasses.com/games to get your Felix Gray glasses. Get 50% off your first 5 orders of $50 or more when you use code WHATSGOOD on Postmates. This week Andrea is joined by a special panel of guests to talk about working in game development and the impact diverse perspectives have on the process. But first, Belinda Garcia, Alyssa Harrison, and Mel Ramsden join Andrea in chatting about the Game Awards 2021 nominations before talking about their game Stonefly and taking community questions. Follow Mel on Twitter at http://www.twitter.com/melrambles Follow Belinda on Twitter at http://www.twitter.com/bbcgarcia Follow Alyssa on Twitter at http://www.twitter.com/hyperlyss Thank you to this month's Patreon Producers: Chewy's Godson Alex Rigopulos David Iacolucci Faris Attieh Justin Foshee Matthew Goderre Punkdefied Subscribe to our channel: http://bit.ly/2rAcJvF Support us on Patreon: http://www.patreon.com/whatsgoodgames Want audio only? http://whatsgoodgames.com/podcast/ Merch: https://teespring.com/stores/whatsgoodgames Follow on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/whatsgood_games Follow on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/whatsgoodgames Follow on Twitch: http://www.twitch.tv/whatsgoodgames Our discord channel: http://discord.gg/whatsgoodgames Follow on Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/whatsgoodgamesofficial Our website: http://www.whatsgoodgames.com Time stamps: 1:10 - Special guest introductions 3:43 - Game Awards nominations discussion 5:55 - Game of the Year nominees 15:03 - Innovation in Accessibility nominees 24:00 - The weird feeling devs get watching people play their game 28:45 - Sponsor messages 35:15 - What is Stonefly? 37:40 - Does one person pick the idea for a game or a group brainstorm? 49:45 - Media training and game developers: what is interviewing with media like? 1:02:55 - What game idea relevant to women would you like to see? (hint: MOMS) 1:05:17 - Gendered game experiences: is it ok? 1:09:40 - Things they are excited about right now

Side Hustle School
#1784 - Failure Friday: “Weeks after launch, the website was totally dead…”

Side Hustle School

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 19, 2021 6:45


In this week's Failure Friday segment, we hear from Rupert Hunt, the founder of SpareRoom.com. It's now the world's largest roommate finder service—but in the early days, the team struggled to commit to it.   Show notes: SideHustleSchool.com Email: team@sidehustleschool.com Be on the show: SideHustleSchool.com/questions Connect on Twitter: @chrisguillebeau Connect on Instagram: @193countries Visit Chris's main site: ChrisGuillebeau.com If you're enjoying the show, please pass it along! It's free and has been published every single day since January 1, 2017. We're also very grateful for your five-star ratings—it shows that people are listening and looking forward to new episodes.

The CultCast
M1 Max MacBook Pro VS $15,000 Mac Pro - This can't be right! (CultCast #519)

The CultCast

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 19, 2021 64:57


This week: just how well does a $3500 M1 Max MacBook Pro perform against a $15,000 Mac Pro? These results are INSANE. Plus: Apple is prepping an Apple Car for 2025, and it will be fully autonomous! And we wrap up with our favorite shows in an all-new Under Review! This episode supported by Easily create a beautiful website all by yourself, at Squarespace.com/cultcast. Use offer code CultCast at checkout to get 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Cult of Mac's watch store is full of beautiful straps that cost way less than Apple's. See the full curated collection at Store.Cultofmac.com CultCloth will keep your iPhone 12, Apple Watch, iPad, glasses and lenses sparkling clean, and for a limited time use code CULTCAST at checkout to score a free CarryCloth with any order at CultCloth.co. Join us in the CultClub! discord.gg/BrKdnSK 16" M1 Max MacBook Pro vs $15,000 Mac Pro: Embarrassing Apple aims to build self-driving car with no steering wheel. Project Titan - aka the secret Apple car project -- is the on again/off again mother of all Apple rumors. The latest twist, based on info from anonymous insiders, is that Apple is reportedly committed to making a car capable of driving completely autonomously. Apple will sell parts and tools so customers can repair their own devices Apple on Wednesday revealed its new Self Service Program, which will provide customers with the parts and tools they need to repair their own devices. It marks a major shift in the company's approach to hardware fixes. Get the fantastic Cult of Mac, 2nd Edition book at more than 70% off If you're looking for a holiday gift for an Apple fan, consider The Cult of Mac, 2nd Edition. This great-looking coffee table book about the Apple community is on sale right now for just $9.99 — a whopping 71% off. Co-written by David Pierini and yours truly, the gorgeously designed, full-color book details many aspects of the Apple fan universe. Win a BluShark gift card to buy Apple Watch bands Our latest giveaway is from BluShark, maker of high-quality watch straps -- just look at them! Totally colorful, and they are made from a variety of materials, including leather, canvas, silicone, knit weave and Cordura.

Dumb People with Terrible Ideas
Anti-Vaxxers Part 2

Dumb People with Terrible Ideas

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 18, 2021 22:17


Your Narrator beats a dead horse for the conclusion of Anti-Vaxxers, a group of people TOTALLY down with drinking livestock medicine instead of getting a Covid-19 vaccine.

LuAnna: The Podcast
TOTALLY EXTRA: A Straying Dad, Walking in on your Parents & a Birthday Spatula

LuAnna: The Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 18, 2021 27:58


BE WARNED: It's LuAnna, and this podcast contains honest, upfront opinions, rants, bants and general explicit content. But you know you love it! It's time to get TOTALLY EXTRA. Extra chat, extra rants, extra bants, extra stories, nonsense and more.On this week's Totally Extra: Confusing on banging a chair leg, more shit gifts, sisters who don't know what to do about their cheating Dad, a couple of questionable jokes, and two corking confessions.Remember, if you want to get in touch you can:Email us at luannathepodcast@gmail.com OR drop us a WhatsApp on 07745 266947

EmpowerHER
A conversation about OWNING IT & showing up as the REAL YOU w/ Heather Monahan

EmpowerHER

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 18, 2021 33:49


Today we are having a REAL TALK CONVERSATION w/ best selling author & keynote speaker Heather Monahan about how to build up belief in yourself and your ability to figure things out WHILE simultaneously putting yourself out there and calling your shot. Our guest is  FIREY and inspiring but also provides a lot of TACTICAL tips that you can implement in real time that I think you're really going to love! Can't wait to hear what you think! As mentioned in today's episode: Connect with Heather: On Instagram: Click Here! Snag her new book: “Overcome Your Villians” Click here!Wanna connect more w/ me outside of the podcast?  #1- Come jump in our *TOTALLY FREE* EmpowerHER Podcast LISTENER COMMUNITY group! If you LOVE this podcast & want to connect with like minded women from ALL across the globe that love it too, you don't need to be a podcaster or entrepreneur, this group is for anyone that wants to hop in!!You can request to join here: www.kaciafitzgerald.com/freegroup where you will get a bounce back email with the Facebook link! #2- Be sure to hop on my TOTALLY free TEXT list called #TextsFromKac Where you can join to get PUMP UP texts from me and all the JUICY news and fun perks!  Text a salsa dancer emoji or just come say HI via text +1 512-548-2728 to subscribe!   www.kaciafitzgerald.com/texts#3- My favorite social media platform (Instagram): My personal account→ @kacia.fitzgeraldOur company account  --->  @shegoes.company 

Real Estate Uncensored - Real Estate Sales & Marketing Training Podcast
Matt Faircloth On How to Use Real Estate Investing to Totally Transform Your Life

Real Estate Uncensored - Real Estate Sales & Marketing Training Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 18, 2021 62:45


Real estate investing has the power to completely change our lives and turn our wildest dreams into reality. The only question is, is there a ‘right' way to do it?   What are the things we need to know before we go down the path of real estate investing? Is it possible to make big moves without taking big risks?    In this episode, owner of The DeRosa Group and author of Raising Private Capital, Matt Faircloth shares how he approaches real estate investing.    Three Things You'll Learn in This Episode  The best markets to invest in “Sexy” markets tend to be over-saturated, and declining markets are risky, so where should we be investing, instead?    1 thing to look at before purchasing an investment property What key piece of information should we be looking into before putting any money down?    What investors need to know about loans Rates have been at an historic low for some time now, but is that likely to change in the near future?   Guest Bio Matt Faircloth is the Founder and CEO of The DeRosa Group and the author of the acclaimed Amazon Bestseller, Raising Private Capital. A seasoned investor of over 15 years, Matt has completed over $40 000 000 in real estate transactions and controls over 800 units in multifamily. Passionate about helping others transform their lives through real estate investing, Matt is a regular contributor and guest on BiggerPockets.com and also has his own YouTube channel, dedicated to educating investors. Matt is the co-host of The Healthy Wealthy Wiseguys Show podcast.    To find out more, go to: https://derosagroup.com/ https://store.biggerpockets.com/products/raising-private-capital?variant=32588975571040 https://www.amazon.com/Raising-Private-Capital-Building-Peoples/dp/1947200984 https://www.youtube.com/c/DerosaGroupTrenton  https://mattandiggy.com/ 

Evolutionary Radio
Evolutionary.org Episode 438 How Bitcoin works in the steroid underground.

Evolutionary Radio

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 18, 2021 62:31


Evolutionary radio presents another exciting podcast. Host Stevesmi is joined by co-host Rick . Totally raw and unfiltered. Cryptocurrency episode 1. What are cryptocurrencies? 2. The geeky stuff behind them 3. Using cryptos to buy steroids 4. Are cryptos good for the long term? read how to buy cryptocurrencies https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/anabolic-steroids-peds/how-use-bitcoins-order-steroids-73427.html discuss cryptocurrencies https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/anabolic-steroids-peds/everything-you-need-know-about-bitcoin-cryptocurrency-72776.html?highlight=cryptocurrency >>>>>>>>>> for 1 on 1 coaching/consultation/source help requests hit up stevesmi https://www.elitefitness.com/forum/members/stevesmi.html https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/members/stevesmi.html to follow along with RickyV Follow Ricky on Social: http://www.rickyvrock.com/ Follow Ricky and ask him anything: http://www.bigrickrock.com/ Check out the Evolutionary Radio Podcast: https://www.evolutionary.org/podcasts/ Check out the EliteFitness Podcast: https://www.elitefitness.com/articles/podcast

The One w/ Greg Gutfeld
Who Should We Blame For Making Schools Totally Lame?

The One w/ Greg Gutfeld

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 17, 2021 16:27


As seen on Gutfeld!, former Counselor to President Donald Trump Kellyanne Conway, host of How America Works on FOX Nation Mike Rowe, and Co-Hosts of the Tyrus And Timpf podcast Tyrus and Kat Timpf discuss a solution for judging politicians by their policies and not by the color of their skin. Later, the panel weighs in on what's wrong with modern-day school districts. Follow Greg on Twitter: @GregGutfeld 

Ruby on Rails Podcast
Episode 392: I'm Actually Totally Happy (Brittany & Brian)

Ruby on Rails Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 17, 2021 28:41


No holiday break on the recruiting front! Brittany and Brian catch up on the Rails recruiting trends. They discuss how companies need to up the ante now that so many are remote first, how interviews should be structured and whether it is worth getting in the door, if it is not for the role you want. Show Notes & Links: Mirror Placement (https://www.mirrorplacement.com/) Rubyconf 2021 Job Fair (https://rubyconf.org) Sponsored By: Honeybadger (https://www.honeybadger.io/) Honeybadger makes you a DevOps hero by combining error monitoring, uptime monitoring and check-in monitoring into a single, easy to use platform. Go to Honeybadger.io (https://www.honeybadger.io/) and discover how Starr, Josh, and Ben created a 100% bootstrapped monitoring solution. Atlantis Technology (https://www.atlantistech.com/careers) Atlantis is looking for great engineers! Why work at Atlantis? You'll work with great people. You'll work on projects that change the world. No matter where you are in your career, they're prepared to help you advance it. Find out more here (https://www.atlantistech.com/careers).

It's a Good Good Podcast
Redeemed Humanity: Ephesians 5:21-33

It's a Good Good Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 17, 2021 24:18


On to the next, with Ephesians 5! This time we're doing something TOTALLY different. Actually we're just doing the same expositional work and then hearing the gospel from this passage and applying it to our lives. But I gotta say that I'm loving this time in the Word.

New Glam Gal Podcast by Judith Gaton
What to do with Unwanted Clothing Gifts

New Glam Gal Podcast by Judith Gaton

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 16, 2021 9:37


On this week's episode of the Style Masterclass Podcast, we talk about what to do with unwanted clothing gifts. Hand-me-down and gift season is upon us. I talk about what our game plan is going to be when someone comes up to you and says “I bought you this thing, because I know it's ‘your thing'”.  You'll learn: You have complete permission to graciously decline.  It's okay to donate things if you don't particularly care for them.  How to let  everyone know ahead of time you don't want clothes this year while you're upleveling your closet.  Blame it on me! I have clients do this all the time. Totally ok. If you're not comfortable with graciously declining or donating unwanted gifts, then just blame it on me. Let's lead the pack this season and let this one be easy. 

The JV Show Podcast
Niners Totally Pound the Rams!

The JV Show Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 16, 2021 77:32


On today's 11-16-21 Tuesday show: A woman was held hostage by a possum, two Bay Area cities were named to a report's most fun places to live in the country list, a high school has had to start taking the doors off bathroom stalls to try to curb student's bad behavior, the 49ers got a huge win over the Rams on MNF, Gen Z thinks that Airpods are no longer cool, Britney Spears has her first glass of champagne, and fans are still trying to find evidence that Selena Gomez and Chris Evans are dating! Plus so much more!

Delight Your Marriage | Relationship Advice, Christianity, & Sexual Intimacy
314-For your Holiday...Harmful Fights (& How to Recover)

Delight Your Marriage | Relationship Advice, Christianity, & Sexual Intimacy

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 16, 2021 45:18


JUST in time for the holidays! Please listen to this before you have a blow-up with the people most important to you. I'll give you a lot of tools that you can implement immediately. (Warning: All of the scriptures below and in the episode are personalized to your spouse, but if you know you'll be seeing a certain someone who triggers you, put their name in there, too!) --- When I look at scriptures like... Phil 2:3 “Do nothing towards [your spouse] out of selfish ambition or strife but value [your spouse] above yourself.” “Care not of your interests but care about the interests of [your spouse].”    That's kind of a knock in the face needed to stop always thinking about ourselves, isn't it? And don't most of our marital fights start because that's the only one we're thinking about?   I just wonder if we'd be proud of ourselves if a transcript of the last fight was read from the pulpit on Sunday.   But...you may be thinking about when your spouse comes at you with... -Untrue accusations... -Totally, self-centered criticisms... -Immature and discouraging complaints... What are you supposed to do?   That's what I'm going to help you see in today's conversation.  Here's the summary if you can't listen in right now... 1 - Have a daily prayer time for your spouse & a daily time in the Word so your heart and mind are shaped by God's leadership. [Enter negativity from spouse] 2 - Wait.  3 - Could there be something you don't understand that is why they are reacting that way? 4 - Compassionately circle back after emotions have calmed and listen to understand, not to respond. 5 - [Several other things I include in the podcast] 6 - Witness God do amazing things.   In this episode, I also teach you how to personalize the Bible so it helps you with your marriage. And how to get started loving this book (even if it feels like a chore now).   Suffice it to say that God cares about what comes out of our mouths. Here's another motivating scripture...   Prov 12:18 -- “Your reckless words pierce [your spouse] like swords.”    Yikes! Let's let that word picture motivate us to hold our tongue! Start at home, because that's your most important human assignment. The person you can harm or heal the most.    The final part of Prov. 12:18 “...your tongue -- if you are wise -- brings healing to [your spouse].”    Isn't that what we want, everyone around us to be healed? Is us "being right" more important than their healing?   When this habit is strong with our spouse, it impacts our habits with our kids, our extended family, our friends, our work, our light in the world...  Everyone.    I pray that this encourages you to be the peacemaker in your home - as that is what God, through His Word, asks of you. Blessings, Belah   PS - Get the help you need by speaking to a Clarity Advisor (a $300 value) for free here: delightyourmarriage.com/cc  A recent grad from the Masculinity Reclaimed course said, "Thanks for changing my life and my marriage in ways I didn't even think needed changing." PPS - I've got a ton of free resources if you haven't yet checked them: delightyourmarriage.com/free

The Gravel Ride.  A cycling podcast
Phil Cavell - The Midlife Cyclist

The Gravel Ride. A cycling podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 16, 2021 34:18


This week we sit down with Phil Cavell, co-founder of Cycle Fit Studio in London and author of The Midlife Cyclist. The Midlife Cyclist take a comprehensive look at our bodies and mind with an eye towards successful cycling in mid-age and beyond.  Episode sponsor: Competitive Cyclist - Code 'TheGravelRide' Phil's CycleFit Studio and The Midlife Cyclist Episode Transcript (automated, please excuse the typos): Phil Cavell - The Midlife Cyclist  [00:00:00] Craig Dalton: Hello and welcome to the gravel ride podcast. I'm your host Craig Dalton. This week on the podcast, we're joined by Phil Cavell.  [00:00:10] Phil is the co-founder of pioneering European fit and cycling analysis studio cycle fit. And the author of a book called the midlife cyclist. [00:00:21] Before we jump into this week show, I need to welcome a new sponsor to the gravel ride podcast. Competitive cyclist.  [00:00:28] Whether you're looking to buy a new bike, that's ready to go. Need expert advice, or want to customize your current build competitive cyclist.com is your one-stop online bike shop.  [00:00:38] Now, obviously there are lots of places to shop online, but the real difference at competitive cyclists are the gearheads. They're equal parts, customer service, cycling fanatics. Gear heads, our former pro athletes, Olympians and seasoned cyclists with years of experience, all available via phone, email, and chat for product recommendations and hard won advice.  [00:00:59] Last week. I wanted to experience it again for myself. So I called up competitive cyclist and I got a gear head named Maggie.  [00:01:07] Out of curiosity, I gave Maggie a brief rundown of the type of bike I was looking to buy the type of riding I want to do. And she was able to quickly narrow down the products from a competitive cyclist and find a few bikes that absolutely fit the bill. A couple of the models that are available, that fit my style of riding.  [00:01:27] We're the Haka. The pivot vault and one other bike. I also mentioned that I was super excited about the way the Ridley Canzo fast looked for example, but Maggie was quick to point out that based on what I had told her. That I wanted a bike that was going to be great for where I lived in Marin county.  [00:01:47] A little bit of racing and a little bit of bike packing. She reminded me that that particular bike. It might not do well. If I wanted to do kind of adventurous bike packing, that it was probably better off for me to choose. A bike with a little less aggressive geometry than that particular Ridley. And she actually introduced a bike to me, a model from Ridley that I'd never heard of before.  [00:02:09] So it was really great to just chat with her. And, you know, I know part of the journey of this entire podcast for me has been learning about different bike brands and so many questions that I had when I got into the sport. And it was just great to know that you can call a gear head and kind of riff on what you're looking for.  [00:02:29] And they can break down the different models they're available and get you onto that right. Bike with confidence.  [00:02:36] So, whether you're looking for gravel bikes, gravel parts, or any of your cycling needs. Go to competitive cyclists.com/the gravel ride. And enter promo code the gravel ride. To get 15% off your full price purchase. Plus free shipping on orders of $50 or more. Go right now and get 15% off. Plus free shipping.  [00:02:58] At competitive cyclists.com/the gravel ride. Entering promo code the gravel ride. . With that said let's dive right into my interview with phil [00:03:08] Phil, welcome to the show.  [00:03:10] Phil Cavell: Thank you, Craig. It's great to  [00:03:11] Craig Dalton: be there. I'm excited to have this  [00:03:13] Phil Cavell: yeah. I suspect that you are.  [00:03:14] Craig Dalton: Let's talk just to set the stage for the listener. [00:03:16] Let's just talk a little bit about your background as a cyclist, and then also I think your day job, not being a writer, what you do as a day job at cycle fit studio.  [00:03:27] Phil Cavell: Yeah. Sure. I used to race everything. Come from a time and a place where you didn't really just raise one format. [00:03:33] We used to race cyclocross, rode mountain bike, time trials, team time and trials and getting back over 30 years now, but it just the team and club I was with us, just, it was a group of people and we just wrote everything. And living in London, you could raise a criterium on Tuesday. At crystal palace, the famous crystal palace. [00:03:51] And then you could do a time trial on Wednesday and then you could do, or mounted bike race on a Wednesday or Thursday was a big criterium day at the glorious east way circuit. And then you do a mounted by race or a road race on the weekend. So that was in the seat. That's just the diet I grew up on. [00:04:08] You just raised everything all the time. And until by the end of the season, all of a sudden you couldn't move or speak any muscle in your body. And so that was normal to me until I got injured and until my co-director and a psychopath found pat and I found her got injured and then we couldn't do anything. [00:04:24] And that's what made us interested in the subject. And so yeah, the cycle fit, we that it was born in the late nineties. And it's all really came on, tap in the early two thousands. So it's been going just over 20 years.  [00:04:37] Craig Dalton: I want to dig into cycle fit a little bit, but before we jump in. I know your injury was quite serious and actually took you off the bike for a really extended period of time. [00:04:48] I think that's really interesting just to hear it in your words, and the fact that you were able to come back to the bike is, you know, maybe news and some enthusiastic news to some of the lists.  [00:04:58] Phil Cavell: Yeah, it wasn't that injury actually, the original injury that made me interested in bike fitting was 25, 30 years ago. [00:05:04] The injury, this injury was 2011, hit a pothole and spammy me over the bars and very innocuous, really commuting crash, spammy me over the bars and a ambulance picked me up and took me to hospital and Yeah. And then I had a S a, quite a bad spine fracture there, but their feeling was, it was probably an old one that I'd reactivated or, and so it just got worst over it got worse and worse over the next few weeks. [00:05:31] And I could feel it degrading. And it was I'd missed that period in British medicine when you're treated as an emergency. And so I was almost always trying to get back into the system, but it got worse and worse until I had to have spine fusion surgery that failed quite badly and got an infection and made things worse. [00:05:51] And yeah, I really, it was. Six seven years of just trying to find where ground, you know, that the kind of base level was like a kickoff. Again, every time I thought things couldn't get worse, they did, which is bizarre because I was working in an, in, you know, working at my day job was helping people who were injured and I was the one I'd run up through, but I couldn't think of myself and a knock and my co-director jewels. [00:06:14] And you know, he felt awful because, you know, there was no fix. And obviously like most professionals, you know, I opt for the least, you know, you want ops for the least, least invasive corrective therapy. You know, I already had one round of surgery and that didn't go great. So you're a bit gun shy for the next round. [00:06:31] So you're trying to manage everything with physio and physical, you know, physical therapy. And of course being in my business, I know a lot of them very good ones and bless them. They were all trying to. But it's one of those situations where no one could help. I couldn't help. Nobody could help. [00:06:44] And it just, so I couldn't really ride at all between 2011 and 2000 and late 17, early 18, I had spine revision surgery in 2017 and it was successful.  [00:06:57] Craig Dalton: Glad to hear that. Yeah. Yeah. What a journey. And I can only imagine how bad it was, you know, having to service athletes at cycle. If it's studio, meanwhile, not being able to, you know, enjoy the sport. [00:07:10] That's been a big part of your entire life. [00:07:12] . I remember you'd mentioned that you and your partner both had differing injuries that led you to starting this cycle fit studio. [00:07:20] Can you just talk about that process and what philosophy you brought to fit?  [00:07:25] Phil Cavell: Yeah, I mean, we both had injuries. So we were sidelined from racing and it just made us it, we came from a traditional racing background, you know, which was, you know, you didn't really think too much about your position and didn't think too much about anything at all, or even doing other things other than just racing. [00:07:43] We just raised and rode all the time. And then we got, when we got injured, it made us reevaluate everything. And then we worked with Paul swift, a lot, one of your, you know, and we went to Ben serratus classes. Ben was great. We really, you know, those early, but Ben shorter classes were amazing. And then it just got it, gave us an appetite for the subject. [00:08:04] So we just constantly learned and trained and sought people out who could help us learn. People about podiatrists because podiatry for us was where a lot of the gold was buried. We thought, and, you know, I think we were right about that. You know, we just trained and learn from everybody, whether it was a hip surgeon or a podiatrist or a physio, we just kept going. [00:08:24] And so developed our philosophy from there. And the philosophy hasn't really changed. It's just changed, you know, to help us deliver the philosophy. And I guess that philosophy for that, sorry.  [00:08:35] Craig Dalton: Yeah, no, I was just going to say, I mean, it seems yeah, I'd love to hear you summarize the philosophy and obviously like the cycle fit studio grew and you started working with a lot of professional teams and individual athletes of really big note. [00:08:51] Phil Cavell: Yeah. Yeah, I guess the philosophy is that cycling is prescriptive. It's a very prescriptive sport. I think your ranges of movement and that can either be good because it's prescribing good movement for you or it's good. It can be bad. It's prescribing your body to do bad things that are out of alignment with what you can tolerate. [00:09:11] And so for us, it really is about anatomy. It's understanding each individual on quite a deep level and what their body wants to do and how their body wants to move. And then try and express that on the bicycle. I guess that's our philosophy encapsulated that, you know, when cyclists come in and say, you know, geez, I'm really uncomfortable in pain. [00:09:29] The bike's hurting me is don't beat yourself up. It's a very prescriptive environment. And right now the prescriptions are wrong. You're being prescribed the wrong. And we need to know, I found out what the right prescription is, and for that, we need to really understand how your body wants to move from function. [00:09:45] And then possibly part of that is even saying, okay, there's things you can do yourself to make things better here. You know, no, one's a finished project, actually. Everyone's working progress, everybody, especially mid-life athletes things are changing quickly. So you've got to stay on top of it. [00:09:58] So I guess that in essence is our philosophy.  [00:10:00] Craig Dalton: Yeah, I was curious. I mean, I think it's a good time that we move on to the book that you've written the midlife cyclist, but were you seeing some of the things as you had older athletes come into cycle fit studio was, and as you were aging yourself, were you starting to see things very starkly about how the aging athlete was fitting onto a bike that led just another thread of why you wanted to write this. [00:10:24] Phil Cavell: Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, we were seeing clients come in trying to do extraordinary things and often not coming from a cycling background. And so we were, you know, it made us very curious really about, you know, you try not to see everybody through the same prism, you know, we're all X races, all races, that cycle of it. [00:10:42] So it's very tempting to see things through that prism and, you know, The inspiration behind the book was what don't, let's not see people through that prison. Let's see. Pick Trump usually see people through their individual prison. My teachers did right. Looking at it. Thank you very much, Donna. So yeah, the hiding behind that was to really explore that subject. [00:10:59] You know, someone doesn't come from a side, combat run, they come from a rugby background or a soccer background or and you know, what's the best evidence and advice for them to progress as quickly as they can in the sport safely. And that ultimately is. To try and hold people's hands so they can get the most out of themselves and the most out of their bikes and the booklet. [00:11:18] The book really is a philosophy discussion about that subject to think.  [00:11:22] Craig Dalton: Yeah, I think that's probably meets a lot of gravel riders where they're at, because your statement around meeting athletes who were trying to do extra ordinary things that maybe hadn't been riding their whole life to do that. [00:11:34] Is commonplace in gravel. I mean the tent pole events around the world can be a hundred plus miles, maybe even 200 miles in the case of Unbound out in Kansas, these events that people read about and think, oh, I'm just going to go out and do that because gravel is so inviting, but the idea of coming off of even just a solid fitness background and riding 200 miles off road, quite a tall order. [00:11:58] Phil Cavell: Yeah, that's right. And. It's beholden and everybody who wants to do that kind of event to really understand what they're demanding of their body, what systems are they going to be stressing? Which systems should they be fueling through? It's not just, it's just not enough to get yourself fit or to keep pushing up your FTP because of the net. [00:12:18] You're a high FTP isn't necessarily going to get you through a trans continental ride or some of the great big events. It's just not, you know, you need to be working. In an oxidative efficient state. And that requires specific training. And a lot of us amateurs, certainly midlife athletes who have come into the sport late or trying to catch up all the time. [00:12:38] They're trying to cram the homework is it won't work. You know, you know, you've got to you. I think I say in the book, you've, you know, you've got to put some foundations down before you can move into the penthouse, you know? And if you don't do that, you know, you know, you are not going to perform at your best. [00:12:52] And so you've got almost slow down to go fast. Even me, you know, I come from a racing background race for decades. If I was going to go and do one of these events and I absolutely want to go and do the trans continent or something like that just absolutely speaks to me. I would completely change the way I ride. [00:13:07] You know, I absolutely would, you know, I'm by nature, I'm a crit rider, you know, All fast, short distance, 45 minutes or an hour, and I'm gone. If I was going to do the trans continental, I would totally change the way I ride. Totally. You know, you've got to start fueling different. Yeah. You know, it's  [00:13:24] Craig Dalton: interesting. [00:13:25] No. It's interesting to hear your perspective on this stuff, obviously. That's why I invited you on the podcast. You know, to that vein, you know, it wasn't, I spent a little bit of time in my life, as a, as an amateur road racer. And then I did a bike tour and I realized as I strapped those bags on my road bike, the day was going to be different. [00:13:45] I wasn't going to be sprinting. Out of the blocks. It was going to be a long day with a lot of weight on the bike. And it really was instrumental in shifting my mentality around what would eventually in my life become a passion around these Endurant long endurance events. And it is to your point, you just have to think about it entirely differently than an hour long criteria. [00:14:09] Phil Cavell: That's right. And I remember Joel signed me up for the first Everett tap to tour and, you know, I didn't even know what it was, frankly. And Jules is juices. My co-director is a vet. He's a very intelligent, very disciplined rider and trainer always a much better trainer than I was. I was his lead out man. [00:14:27] And I, and he was, you know, he was a very good sprinter and he signed me up for this event and I'm like, oh, okay. So we'll do it. So we went out to the tap to tour. I had no idea what it was, no idea what it was. And I got. And we started, I still didn't really know what it was. I didn't even know where it went. [00:14:40] I honestly didn't know where it went or what climbs it went over. It seems madness now, but it's a long time ago. Anyway, it started and I thought, great race. You know, let's go get into, get my race head on and off we go. I was in the front group to start with the first hour and 10 minutes. I was literally in the front group. [00:14:55] There's a group of us and I'm going through an orphan. It's an hour and 10 minutes hits and that's my normal distance. And I'm gone. I'm done. I'm not going to blow my. That's it lights went out after burners off, shut down at which point Jules came out next to me on this climb and said, oh, you worn out old Labrador. [00:15:12] Look at you in touch. I'm sorry, chores. I'd completely blown my biscuit. And I had that five hours left. Yeah, very expensive education. Crazy.  [00:15:21] Craig Dalton: For sure. You don't have to say, you know, I mentioned that, I felt like this book hit me at the exact right time. You know, I've been suffering the last few years with some lower back issues and felt you know, this was the year I was really gonna change my mentality about writing and, you know, I had been one of those. [00:15:39] Ride five days a week. That's what riding is all about kind of athletes. And I knew I needed to make some changes when I was reading through maybe the first third of this book and maybe it was chapter three in particular. I was starting to think, oh my God, You know, I'm probably fortunate that it's only my back that's hurting because it could be my knees. [00:15:58] It could be my it band. It could be my hip. And I started to get in this doom and gloom mentality. So I was super happy when it started to come around in chapter four. You know, the midlife cyclist, it is possible to still go fast and achieve these major milestone events in your life, but the mentality needs to shift. [00:16:20] So it'd be interesting to just talk about some of the elements of the mentality that needs to shift and how we can think about, you know, writing to.  [00:16:29] Phil Cavell: Yeah. And I'm sorry, some people have reacted to the book and said, look, you know, I find the book a little bit, you know, I find it a bit, chapter three, you know, is tough. [00:16:38] And some of it I think is you know, you just a bad news bear. You just, you know, it's relentlessly bad news. And I don't, I just don't intend it like that. I just think the book to me is going into this with your eyes open, there's no point in being Peter pan about this understand the constraint, understand the challenges. [00:16:53] And once you understand the challenges and the constraints have Austria. You know, and then you can do the best you can do, to go into this, you know, there's no point I didn't want to write a book. It was just a training manual, ignoring the fact that, you know, any other century you'd be dead, you know, 51, 50, 2 years old. [00:17:10] How old are you? I'm nearly 60. So 51 51 in any other century, Craig, you wouldn't be alive, you know, unless you were kind of royalty, it's just as simple as that. You know, it's, you know, we need to, we need that kind of leveling moments. Okay. It's 300,000 generations of bypass. Every one of them would be dead by now, but not only am I alive, but I want to train and act like an Olympic athlete. [00:17:33] Okay. All of that's great. I love it. Understand the challenges, you know, and this is people my age and your age, trying to push their bodies hard is a very recent event in human history. So I think it's beholden all of us to understand. And then understand what's happening to our bodies as we do this and challenge our bodies in these ways. [00:17:54] Not because I think not because I think we shouldn't be doing it, not because I'm trying to be depressing, but because I think the goal is buried in understanding.  [00:18:04] Craig Dalton: Yeah. And I think by the end of the book that comes absolutely shining through, and that chapter three is a distant memory and I was more on. [00:18:14] Gosh, I just need to do the things that I need to do correctly. I need to think about my cycling career differently at this point. And there was a bunch of things in the book. That were put out there in a way that sort of makes you think about it. One that I'll highlight that is, I think for a lot of gravel athletes, maybe it's top of mind these days, just because of some of the athletes, we follow just the idea of recovery and you've got products like whoop out there talking about HRV, and there's obviously a number of other ways you can get that, that that stat out of your body. [00:18:45] But if you could talk a little bit about recovery and maybe. Alongside that over-training syndrome. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on that.  [00:18:54] Phil Cavell: Yeah, it's a good point. Oh, cyclists seem to be born with a great work ethic and it's, you know, and if, you know, and it's you know, we're made mad by miles. [00:19:03] We just, you know, we're mile hungry. And if in doubt, put more miles on your belt, you know, I come from that background, you know, the old generation I come from was like, you know, it's all miles, it's all miles under the saddle, you know? And there's, that's partly true. When you get to our age, my age, I'm older than you. [00:19:18] It's also too to say that you need to respect your body more and you need to rest more. You need to recover more. Remember that you get fit, not when you're training, but when you're recovering, you know, what you do is you have a, you introduce a stress to your body, a training dose to your body. And that stimulates something on a cellular level, and then you need to super compensate and your body then gets stronger to adapt to this. [00:19:42] You put your body under. So you're actually getting, you're actually gaining fitness, not when you're training, but in the super compensation stage. Now everyone knows that, but cyclists, we seem to, it's no, we never, we don't allow our body to go into the super compensation stage and rest. And we get to my age and degree your age, you just need to have, be more conscious of not just the amount of rest, but the quality of rest sleep is absolutely. [00:20:07] Go dust to you know, to our generation really, because that's when all the good work gets done. And if you're in any doubt tool bag as to whether you should train, I wouldn't necessarily use heart rate, which is our old gold standard. You'd take your pulse if you know, and you'd say, okay, I'm at 45. [00:20:23] I'm good to go. Or 50 good to go. You know, a lot of a lot of endurance athletes have bradycardia, which is slow heart rate. So a better way to look at it is HRV heart rate variation, which is the beat to beat changed. And that gives you an, a better metric to work with as to whether you're fully rested and should train, or in fact, you're still tired and you've got inflammation in your body possibly or you're fighting something and you probably are best served to rest. [00:20:45] Not best served to rest in health, but all certainly that is true, but best health best to rest for performance. Because training, when you're tired really has no benefit, it just doesn't have any benefit. Certainly our. You know, you want to be fizzing with energy when you train, you want to be go out there and think, oh, I could just, can't wait to do this. [00:21:03] That's the mindset you need. I believe post 50 to train properly.  [00:21:07] Craig Dalton: It's super interesting. And I think, you know, recovery has been something I've been focused on a lot more this year and just my understanding of it, you know, the HRV number, it's just this quantifiable metric that you can look at some days to be honest I feel like I have. [00:21:21] The mentality to go out and thrash myself when I have a low HRV number. And I, you know, it takes a bit of discipline to dial myself back and knock, go after it or take the day off. But I think it's just layering on something very simple and a very important reminder, particularly for older athletes about the importance of recovery. [00:21:41] Phil Cavell: Yeah. And I think. It's a sign of a mature athlete. If they go out and Jules was talking to me the day he went out for a ride and turn back, you know, he went out for a ride and said, you know, I just didn't feel right. Turned back you know, got 20 K in and went, you know what, this isn't going anywhere and turned back and went home and got cold the next day. [00:21:57] You know, how did he stayed out for his three to four hours? He was planned and got cold and wet and really worked hard. You know, his age, she's two years younger than me. That would have been more, you know, more damaging as it was. He could shrug it off. So it's mature and sensible go out and say, do you know what? [00:22:13] I'm not as sharp as I should be here. Now if you're a 25 crack on shore, Stop for a few beers. It doesn't matter. You know, you can do all that stuff, but post 45, 50, 60, yeah. You can't, you know, you can't because that stuff in beds, in, you know, that's a layer of inflammation in there that you don't need. [00:22:29] Craig Dalton: And we've just recently had a coach on talking about just the need to control the things you can control when you're out there in these gravel events. And I think it's even more highly. For an older athlete, just to make sure you don't do something still in not hydrating or not getting the right nutrition in your body, not getting a good right rust, because as you said, we could all do that in our twenties and thirties, but in our forties and fifties and sixties, it's just going to have dire repercussions. [00:22:56] Phil Cavell: Yeah. And I remember being a mounted by race. I think it was in Scotland years and years ago, probably 30 years ago, 25 years ago. And then the tent next. You know, or the camp, little campsite next door, they were having a party. They were drinking, they were solutely completely blasted. And then they weren't in our race. [00:23:14] But, and then I remember coming back to the tent later, after we'd finished our race and the kid who in the morning was vomiting over his tent. Cause he was drunk in the morning. Still won his race. Shouldn't be, I remember talking to the you one new. You know, I was probably 30 at the time and he was already 18. [00:23:32] Yeah. Yeah. Why don't you? And that his preparation was getting completely drunk, staying up all night and then vomiting over his tent. Now try that at 50, just to try that Jordan mean that isn't going to work. And that doesn't mean that was a good strategy. It just means he got away with it 18. I'm not sure that I'm not sure how that anecdote helps anybody anyway. [00:23:53] Yeah. If  [00:23:54] Craig Dalton: anybody does take that challenge on at 50, please send us a note. After the fact  [00:23:58] Phil Cavell: you post a video like,  [00:24:00] Craig Dalton: So chapter five, you go into bikes, bike, fit, and biomechanics. And I'm curious, I know you mentioned offline that you're, you're passionate gravel cyclists at this point. You know, how have you seen bike? [00:24:12] Change relative to the equipment that's coming out for gravel bikes these days and the aging athlete. Yeah,  [00:24:21] Phil Cavell: it's a good question. I just think it's a marvelous time. I think a lot of older athletes, my agent are embracing gravel because it means they get a bite. That you know, they don't have to have, you know, there are some in the air and you know, hands round by their knees, they can get a sense of a bite that can do lots of different jobs. [00:24:38] It can be a robot, it can be you know, and so they, they're taking more sensible approach to their cycling. They. Once they've tried having a bit more rubber on the road or on the trail. They don't go back to riding a 23 and, you know, a 25, they, the minimum becomes a 28 or 32. So I think they're taking a much more pragmatic and I would say. [00:24:57] Reassuring route through their cycling career. And it makes me much happier. I always, you know, when when a client walks out with a bike with a 32 Rhode Tyro, 28 or something. Yeah, it's good modem, you know, cause it's, you've got more grip there. You've got more comfort. You've got more control. You've got more safety margin. [00:25:12] So I just think it's been a really, I think the whole gravel movement has been a altogether, very positive. I have to say for my clients for bike design. And of course it's all been liberated by disc brakes. Isn't it? I mean, seven was doing this a long time ago, one way or another, but I mean, you know, as were other manufacturers, but this has all been bought a life by the advent of disc brakes, isn't it? [00:25:32] You know, and allowing the frame designer morph.  [00:25:35] Craig Dalton: Yeah, a hundred percent. When you look at some of your professional athletes on the road that you work with, are you seeing like some of these elements of a little bit more comfort or are we still looking at these, you know, flat backs and high seats and long stems for the road athletes? [00:25:51] Or are there actual like performance benefits that can be gained by pulling that back a little bit and making them a bit more relaxed? [00:25:57] Phil Cavell: Yeah, I don't, I'd like to say I did see a bit of the latter and I think some, you know, some of the pros, the younger ones, you know, they look at it, look at Tom peacock. I mean, he comes from a cyclocross background, mountain bike background, you know, it's not, it's never too early, you know, he, you know, he has that background. [00:26:14] You know, I'm not saying that his rope position is an aggressive. There's a good chance that, you know, he's going to have some, you know, he's crammed some smarts about him when he sets up his road bike. We, you know, I don't see necessarily that they are setting their Roebucks road bikes up any different, but they all do ride gravel. [00:26:30] They all got gravel bikes. You know, one hopes that at some point they're going to take some, you know, some kind of recalibration by osmosis between the two, two formats. Certainly my amateur. You know, th they're now becoming category sensitive, you know, they, you know, they're no longer, they're no longer seeing these pigeonholes. [00:26:49] They just, you know, there's getting bikes at work for a number of different environments. And I think that's brilliant and I love that. Yeah.  [00:26:56] Craig Dalton: The other thing that's been talked about this book was and I heard you speaking on another podcast and referencing that you didn't think people were going to hang their hats on it as much as they have, but just this notion that amateur athletes are riding much closer to their threshold than professional athletes are on a weekly and monthly basis. [00:27:13] Phil Cavell: Yeah. That, yes, that w the podcast, I was that too. So John Lewis is the  [00:27:19] Craig Dalton: baseline podcast,  [00:27:20] Phil Cavell: I think. Yeah. Yeah, it's been picked up on a lot that, I mean, the thing is data doesn't lie, you know, th the fact is that amygdala amateur athletes tend to spend more of their time as a proportion, closer to the red line and professionals per year. [00:27:34] So we're 50 years of all 50 years of age, you know, in any other century we'd be dead, but there we are literally thrashing our bodies to destruction. Not literally, but metaphorically compared to professional writers. So they're writing at 60 something percent and we're writing 80% of our potential. [00:27:51] You know, one has to think, what is that sense of, or, and the book really is trying to answer that. It is that sensible, rational, sustainable and you know, and it, what it means is that professional cyclists are more ordered and structured in the way that they ride and train more cognizant of what they should be doing. [00:28:08] We tend to ride in this kind of mid sort of mid watch the whole time, you know, where are hard, bits are not hard enough. And our easy bits are too easy to just ride in this. What John Baker calls whirlwind of doom, you know, we're just and I can recognize it in myself, you know, decades gone past, I can recognize that, you know, where I'm riding in that kind of just in that uncomfortable zone all the time.  [00:28:30] Craig Dalton: It  [00:28:30] Resonated with me for sure. Only because as I mentioned offline, you know, I live in a little bit of a hilly place and I prefer to ride almost exclusively off-road so I, I do find myself grinding like a diesel engine up these Hills, never particularly having a super easy day and but never really doing anything that would resemble an interval either. [00:28:52] Phil Cavell: Yeah. And that's right. I've worked with so many professional athletes and amateurs. And when they're forced to take things easy, you know, injury or illness, they always come back stronger, but they come back renewed and rejuvenated. It's yes, because your body's been desperate for this for so long. And yeah, and I think that's absolutely right. [00:29:12] Whereas now I actually literally make myself ride really easy. Oh my God, this is lovely. I can feel my body's rejuvinating as I write. And then if I want to have a little pot and go a bit hard, I do. I definitely never ride hard unless I want to ever it, you know, I, I use that rule for myself unless I'm fizzing with energy and really want to ride hard. [00:29:31] I don't. Yeah. And the rest of the time, I just knock it back. A couple of gears. I know that I'm building mitochondria, I'm working my oxidative system. It's all good for me. The other  [00:29:41] Craig Dalton: thing that I picked up was just this notion of. Getting your head around dropping a cycling workout, picking up a strength training workout, or stand up paddle board session in your week. [00:29:52] And again, with this holistic idea that it's actually going to make you a faster cyclist.  [00:29:59] Phil Cavell: Yeah. And I think that's right. You've got to take one step back, take two steps forward as a midlife athlete because. Yeah. So I think we'll do nothing for bone density or bone minerality. It'll do nothing for sarcopenia or muscle loss. [00:30:12] It'll do nothing really for flexibility. There's so much of the, you know, you'll do nothing for balance. Really. There's so much of your potential. That's not being challenged by cycling and not being developed. So you're not building, you're not building resilience in your Shasti. Do you want to build resilience in your Shasti? [00:30:27] You've got to put the bike aside for a second. And do other things and that will make you faster. It's it's a tool. It's a tool. I was going to mix my metaphors. It's a big pill to swallow that one.  [00:30:37] Craig Dalton: Totally it very much is. And I struggled with that a little bit myself, but I realized it to be a hundred percent true. [00:30:44] Like I need to do these different things in order to be successful. And it's been an exploration. I've got a future podcast, guests just talking about why we need to do that. And I think it's critically important.  [00:30:56] Phil Cavell: Yeah. And I don't athlete in the, in photography today. Very good athlete, you know, was he 47, 48 hours, incredibly strong, very powerful, doing big events. [00:31:05] You're doing that event where they ride tour stages, you know, back to back tours stages before the tour or whatever. And, you know, I did a single X partial, single leg squat with him and he couldn't do a partial, single leg squat. It's you know what, you know, that's a pretty simple thing to do a partial single as to what you know, Yeah, I see that a lot. [00:31:23] It's nice. Not a new, that's not, it's not atypical, you know, see a lot, you know, where you got super fit people and they can't do simple things, you know?  [00:31:31] Craig Dalton: Yeah. No, I think that's so true. And I remember maybe in my forties, patting myself on the back that I'd selected a sport that you can ride, you know, you can ride a bike your entire life, but I didn't realize at the time that yes, you can, but you're going to need to do other things to support that goal. [00:31:47] Phil Cavell: Yeah, that's right. And we've all heard stories where you've got a friend or a colleague and they're, you know, midlife, cyclists, and they have an accident which is quite innocuous. And the damage is more, you know, more than you, one would expect. And you know, they didn't have a DEXA scan or, you know, looks, which looks, you know, the sort of bone minerality and it's low they're, what's called osteopenic or osteoporotic. [00:32:08] And it's because all they've done is cycle all their lives and not done anything off the bite whatsoever. And now they've got a bone density issue. You know, you know, if we're going to build resilience in the chassis, one of the things we need to look at is bone minerality, bone D.  [00:32:21] Craig Dalton: Yeah, it makes a ton of sense. [00:32:23] The book is great. I really enjoyed it. As I said, hit me at the right time. I hope for those listeners, like if your late thirties, early forties get on this book earlier, rather than later, because at 50, I've got some catching up to do. I'm committed to the cause. Cause I want to see everybody out there on the gravel events in 2022. [00:32:42] So Phil, thank you so much for the time. Thank you for writing this book and putting such good work out there in the.  [00:32:48] Phil Cavell: You're so welcome, Craig, it's been a pleasure to talk to you. Have a great weekend.  [00:32:52] Craig Dalton: Cheers.  [00:32:53] Big thanks to Phil for joining the show this week. I hope you all go out there and take a look at the midlife cyclist book, whether you're a midlife cyclist, yourself approaching midlife or otherwise. I think there's a lot of value in understanding.  [00:33:07] What our bodies are going to go through as mid-life cyclists. I know this is something that I wish I was more attuned to as a younger lad. I think I would be in a lot better shape today.  [00:33:19] And another big, thanks to competitive cyclists for joining us as a sponsor this week and the coming weeks. Be sure to visit competitive cyclists.com/the gravel ride and enter promo code to the gravel ride. To get 15% off your full price purchase and free shipping on orders over $50. Some exclusions apply as they always do.  [00:33:40] Thanks for spending a little bit of your week with me this week. Until next time here's defining some dirt onto your wheels      

The Holderness Family Podcast

Penn and I talk about treating your marriage like a team using the most inspirational and uplifting muse we know… Ted Lasso. Our family loves watching Ted Lasso, and we're going through withdrawals now that Season 2 is over. So we thought we'd use some of the show's best one-liners to talk about treating your marriage as a team. (Who needs couples therapy when you have Ted Lasso, right? Totally kidding.)Thank you for listening! Your support means the world to us. Do you have ideas for podcast guests? CALL US AT: (323) 364-3929Or send us a note! Would you consider leaving a review? We also love feedback: holdermesspodcast@gmail.comWe wrote a book! Learn more here and if you've read it please leave us a review:www.theholdernessfamily.com/book Join our Facebook family: www.facebook.com/theholdernessfamilyFollow us on Instagram: www.instagram.com/theholdernessfamily Find us on YouTube: www.youtube.com/theholdernessfamilyAbout the Holderness Family
: Penn, Kim, Lola, and Penn Charles Holderness create original music, parodies, and Vlogs for YouTube and Facebook to poke fun of themselves and celebrate the absurdity in circumstances most families face in their day to day life. They published "Christmas Jammies" in December 2013 and life hasn't been the same. Since then, their popular parodies, "All About That Baste", "Baby Got Class," and original music "Snow Day" have received national news coverage. Penn, the Dad, took a chance and left his job as a news anchor to join his wife Kim, the Mom, at their video production and digital marketing company, Greenroom Communications, LLC. Lola and Penn Charles are always happy, respectful and eat all of their vegetables (that last sentence is a lie). The Holderness Family Podcast is Edited and Engineered by Max Trujillo of Trujillo Media. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

The Bledsoe Show
Censorship is F'ing Retarded

The Bledsoe Show

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 15, 2021 106:02


00:00.56 mikebledsoe That's how you already canceled you're bulletproof. 00:01.76 Max Shank It's okay I already canceled myself so well, it's like I found I was putting so much of my identity into this illusion that I had masterfully crafted. On the internet I was like the dark night of fitness I was professional I was like once in a while a little bit funny I used all the big fancy words and I only showed people the exact slice of my life I wanted them to see and I was really good at it too and then I was like man this is a. Probably probably not good long term like this whole this whole reality that we've created where people think oh, that's just that's just max all the time I'm just out there. You know going on vacations and lifting huge things all the time and it's not really.. It's not really very honest. So of course I think we all do to fit in I think that's kind of normal and the best friends you have are the ones you don't have to fake around and truthfully. 00:57.30 mikebledsoe Or you are censoring yourself. It sounds like. 01:15.83 Max Shank I don't really hang out with too many people that I have to um, fake it around which is why I say some horrible things that are also really funny like if you've ever played the game would you rather? that's a really, that's a really good 1 Are you played would you rather. 01:20.66 mikebledsoe Four. 01:30.62 mikebledsoe No. 01:34.00 Max Shank So here's it's a hypothetical game. So for example, would you rather have sex with a goat and have no 1 know about it or have a video of you having sex with a goat that's totally fake, but everyone thinks you did. 01:47.44 mikebledsoe Oh that's a good 1 Yeah ah I'm gonna censor myself on that 1 actually I'm I'm having a hard time because yeah I think I might be on the same page as you on that 1 Ah. 01:56.14 Max Shank I would have sex with the goat. 02:04.99 Max Shank Is because there's still such a social stigma against bestiality right now we're not really enlightened about that. 02:07.50 mikebledsoe Yeah, it's and. 02:13.34 mikebledsoe Ah, well, it's interesting. What you're discussing is self-censorship is ah I hear people say they want to be more Authentic. You know I talk to a lot of people who want to express themselves on the internet and because I think people witnessed me do it and then they're like how do you do it I Want to do it too. And and and I'm definitely somebody Who's who's got a history of censoring myself less So these days than and earlier. But I think people deep down they desire not needing a sensor sensor themselves. They they want to. They want to be widely accepted by everybody but they think that the only way that can happen and it's probably true. The only way you can be popular with everybody is to censor yourself depending on the audience you're talking to and the person you're talking to. 03:03.58 Max Shank It is the most important thing to fit in with the group that you're a part of to fit in with the tribe I mean little kids go Rob seven eleven s and murder people so they can be part of a gang people say things that they don't mean people lie I mean I was a kid once I used to lie. 03:16.69 mikebledsoe Yep. 03:22.26 mikebledsoe Oh yeah. 03:22.93 Max Shank Did you ever lie I was great at it I had like think I had like 50 grandparents die as far as teachers knew growing up. Oh I decided I didn't do my homework a grandparents diet or something like that you know like when your're kid and you find out that lying is a. 03:29.54 mikebledsoe Yeah, yeah, yeah. 03:42.50 Max Shank Like a ten second uncomfortable experience that can save you like weeks of trouble. Potentially it's it's natural that you would do it and if you're talking about how to like fit in better. Oh my god of course we all do that. 03:49.94 mikebledsoe Yeah. 03:57.67 mikebledsoe Yeah, but would you say that everyone on of about everyone. But I think that everyone gets to a point at some point in their life where they don't want to have to censor themselves anymore and I think that they. When they are at that point the language they use to describe what they desire is they want to be free I Want to be free to express myself and ah and what ends up happening is when someone starts exploring how much they want to express themselves. Find out that they're the only ones that are censoring themselves based on wanting to be accepted by the tribe and the likeability and so I've witnessed a lot of people including myself go through this process where a slowly saying fuck it I don't give a fuck What people think. I'm going to be more honest and then watching watching the polarization happen where some people get become more distant from me the more honest I am and other people getting a lot closer because of how honest I am and it's a it's a filter and it's and it's. 04:57.20 Max Shank And. 05:02.56 Max Shank Well, it's just filter. It's a good thing. It's like panning for gold. 05:09.20 mikebledsoe And it's really served me in a way where I experience my experience of my life is ah very enhanced. It's it's unreal at times. Um, and my sister she came to my birthday party a few weeks ago. And she got to witness my community and she was blown away. She didn't realize that people could be like that. But it really is a result of censoring myself less and attracting those people who and then giving permission to other people. Censor themselves less because I think you and I both say things that in. Probably me more publicly but say things that people turn their heads at and go well that's a crazy thing to say I've never heard anyone say that before or put it that way. Um, and I think I think it gives people permission to go oh if he can do it I can do it too. 05:58.42 Max Shank Totally and. Well and there's something to be said about a frictionless experience like if you're in a situation where I guess what I'm saying is it's easy to put other people at ease with the way that you communicate. Like you don't have to draw attention to things that are like if you see someone who's really overweight. You don't have to draw attention to their fatness. You don't have to just speak whatever you instinctually think so we're always choosing what to say as if. 06:32.71 mikebledsoe Um, yeah, it doesn't mean doesn't mean that. 06:40.10 Max Shank It's important or not important. 06:40.61 mikebledsoe Well I would say it's um, yeah, censorship is a form of filter but it's not the only version of Filter. There's There's the the filter of of ah of response you're being responsible with your words and how people receive them. And so it wouldn't behoove me to go out there and tell everybody exactly what I think and the way that I want to say it now. What I do is I say things say what I believe and what I think in a way in which I know it can be received because there's no point and if I'm just saying. You know if I'm just dropping the truth. Ah the way that I want to be heard and understood I'm just going to sound like a crazy person. 07:27.50 Max Shank Well, you just touched on something that I was thinking which is a good communicator doesn't just communicate the information as simply as possible. He considers who the audience is so it will resonate with them the best. So. 07:40.68 mikebledsoe A. 07:46.26 Max Shank The examples that you use or the language you use I mean you and I both understand the the power of communication and getting a resonant message if you and I were writing an exercise program. For 20 year old men or 50 year old women. The program itself might actually look the same but the way that we present that offer would be monumentally different or at least it should be monumentally different. So it's not just about. 08:18.78 mikebledsoe A. 08:23.98 Max Shank Oh I'm like speaking my truth. It's like well why are you talking at all unless you care about the message being received. 08:30.28 mikebledsoe Yeah, well that but that makes me think of like like ah it it it requiring you to have good communication to get your point across in a way that they can receive it is that is ah a good sense. That's good. Ah. Leadership. That's good communication to have good leadership. You have to have good communication and what I think we're witnessing in our society right now is um, it's laziness I see that that censorship when when censorship is being heavily used. It's ah it's a form of laziness. And it's also um, on that note, what we were just saying too is you have to fit it to your audience. So what ends up happening is the larger the audience the harder it is to be good at communicating with that audience. So we we take the United states of America and there's 3 hundred and fifty million people. You now have to create ah get to communicate the narrative in a way that that impacts all 3 hundred million people is that even lowest common and nomin and is that possible and so. 09:35.80 Max Shank Lowest common denominator. 09:42.63 mikebledsoe And then that's why I mean lowest common denominator is the exact reason why any time the average per we look at what's happening with Mainstream I go they're going right? What's left. They're going left. What's right? Okay, what's going on here because when there's being to the low and lower. Low is coming denominator if you want to be average. That's the that's the perfect advice to take that's the perfect information to consume and to believe if you want to be above average. You have to go the other way and that that can be very uncomfortable but to me I look at the difference between good leadership and and. And poor leadership is that ability to communicate effectively and I just see a lot of laziness and when people say do this because I said so is like okay, you just lost it. 10:29.41 Max Shank Well and the other side of that is that you could say it's not laziness. It's just efficiency because you have to trust like. For example, if I get a plumber over at my house. And I don't know anything about plumbing I have to trust that he's going to do a good job and there is an incentive for him to do good job and maybe there's a contract that says if the pipe explodes he's on the hook for it. So I don't blame people for seeking answers outside themselves because it is way more efficient. However, while it is more efficient. It is also so I think about it in terms of concentration of Power. So if you concentrate power into a single point you can get more penetration which means you can do things much faster like a dictatorship but the trick with concentration. Is. You also give leave yourself open to the fast track for concentration Camps. So it's It's ah it's just exactly so. 11:29.88 mikebledsoe Yeah,, but there's also single single points of Failure. So if you if you concentrate your supply chain and everything's going through 1 2 3 ports or something like that. It only takes 1 person to do something Dumb. And the entire population suffers. 11:51.40 Max Shank Investing is a good example too. You know you have your investment portfolio say you have a million dollars or something like that. Do you put equal amounts into 10 companies equal amounts into 1 hundred companies or do you put it all into 1 company and. If you put it all into 1 company and that 1 just happens to do the best you have made the most that you can possibly make. But if it goes to zero. You've also lost everything so it's a real. It's it's tricky with with concentration of power and I think that's really what this all comes back to. Thomas soul I always go back to because he said what we do is not important. It's who decides what we do who decides? what information should be censored and what information should not be censored and that's that's a worthwhile conversation to have um. I think when it comes to the overarching idea of what is the role of government I like the phrase. The role is not to protect people. It is to protect freedom from coercion. Essentially so we're trying to keep people free. To pursue happiness right? Life liberty and pursuit of happiness that doesn't mean you buy food for everybody. It means that you prevent stealing and coercion and fraud and things like that. 13:18.38 mikebledsoe I think I think it's referred to as negative rights is that the the government and ah you know most people in the world and and Americans are included in this unfortunately the assumption is that they have no rights and all rights are granted by the government and. 13:23.60 Max Shank Ah. 13:36.86 Max Shank It's just the opposite. 13:38.60 mikebledsoe And a place if you're looking at from perspective. What's called well I didn't even hear this term until recently and they go oh yeah, negative rights I go okay that actually makes sense and that is you have the right? you have the right to do anything you want as long as you don't impede on someone else's rights and. Ah, the government's there just to ensure that we don't trample over each other's shit and that means not inhibiting. Someone's pursuit of life liberty happiness upholding um ah property rights essentially so the government is it. It was it was there to protect you know in the very beginning. 14:11.97 Max Shank It's really all it's for. 14:16.80 mikebledsoe Started off with people that knew how to fight and had weapons would protect farmers and they made deals with the farmers so they wouldn't get robbed by these thieves and then they demanded you know a five percent of their rations and then of course that's now if you're an american that's up to 30 something percent. Um, are your rations for to pay for your protection. Um, so it's ah that the benefit that the government gets from from censorship but I see is it's ah just a maintenance of power. So if you're if your job. If you're that person that comes in and says I'm going to protect you and ah and then there becomes there's potential competition for protection then ah you know they've got to do whatever they can do to squash that because they don't they don't want competition for being able to. Ah, protect your property and your life. 15:11.39 Max Shank Right? So kind of tying it back into censorship which is the core discussion today. What are the advantages ofor censorship. How is it good for everybody. 15:23.52 mikebledsoe Yeah, so I went online and I did a search and so I found I found 8 that's right fucking? Well you know that's why I use. Ah, that's why I use a duck duck go. 15:30.23 Max Shank And and somebody chose what results that you were able to see from that search. 15:42.12 mikebledsoe With a vpn so I actually so I take steps personally to reduce how much censorship I'm experiencing from Google That's true. That's true. Yeah. 15:49.21 Max Shank Sometimes the results aren't as good though. That's the problem right now. Sometimes they aren't as good and I I try it with both because I do the same thing. 16:00.83 mikebledsoe Yeah I agree. Ah yeah, so these these are I'll go through the list. Ah 1 is hate speech censorship allows us to reduce hate speech number 2 is protect children which is the ah to me is the number 1 excuse for censorship that. Anytime censorships gets questioned. It's like the last stand you know when you used to? yeah we mean privacy. Oh yeah, yeah, but I think that people want privacy from the government. So. It's kind of like if they're the ones censoring that's people are more likely to. 16:21.90 Max Shank Or privacy. Yeah. 16:35.20 mikebledsoe Give their information to Facebook and they are to government. 16:35.28 Max Shank Oh but what I'm saying is if you convince everybody that it's for the sake of protecting kids from getting raped that they have to look through your phone every day then some people will be okay with that is pretty high level persuasion. It's always kids. 16:45.50 mikebledsoe Yeah, yeah, so yeah. 16:53.69 Max Shank Always you know, take away the guns cause of the children take away your privacy because of the children take away free speech because of the children won't somebody think of the children. There's a there's a sign in my neighborhood quick tangent that says drive like your kids live here. 17:01.42 mikebledsoe Right? I Wonder how the kids. 17:12.51 mikebledsoe Um, yeah. 17:12.68 Max Shank You know there is There's a road to speed limit sign. But there's this extra sign that someone has put out that says drive like your kids here and what I want to do is put up my own sign that says teach your kids. What a road is oh. 17:30.14 mikebledsoe Ah I. 17:30.83 Max Shank Like what like oh my god that's just ridiculous I understand the concept some helicopter Mom is like worry that their kid will run out in the street. But really if her little kid runs out in the street and it's it's too young to know the difference then she's a bad mom. And if it's old enough to know the difference but she doesn't communicate that then she's also a bad mom. So. Either way, it's that parent's fault just like if you see a fat kid. That's not the kid's faultest. Parent's fault 17:53.83 mikebledsoe Yeah, well. Yeah I want to get in I want to get in the who's who's responsible because I think responsibility is is a good way to ah segue this and into some some actionables by end of this show but I want to hit this the rest of this list so hate speech protect children. Reduce conflict in society which I'm not sure that's actually working ah security to a country's government. Actually what was what was on the internet was security. What was it. Ah. 18:41.54 mikebledsoe Ah, yeah to a country's profile censorship can provide another level of security to a country's profile. Um, which to me again, it's they're not trying to censor and that's basically censoring sensitive. Government documents from being exposed like a wikileaks type of conversation. So Um I I like to point out that a lot of people confuse. Ah your country with your government and these 2 things are separate um and it's interesting to run into a blog where they. And make that collapse distinction ipe. Oh yeah, what was it. 19:18.00 Max Shank Mark Twain had a quote about that a man should be loyal to his country all the time and loyal to his government when they deserve it. 19:28.79 mikebledsoe Yeah, beautiful Mark twain 1 of my favorite authors. Um I p I p for artists and inventors so intellectual property copyright so you can't rip off someone else's work. Ah. 19:32.53 Max Shank No, it's funny guy. 19:40.96 Max Shank And then. 19:45.53 mikebledsoe By the way I think I p the idea of I p is not that old I think it's about 1 hundred years old or something like that. Well at least the modern day I p um because we can copy shit now whereas before it wasn't an issue. Um. 19:50.38 Max Shank Are. 20:04.20 mikebledsoe Stop false content. That's 1 that's probably the most popular 1 that's out right now fake news ah improve quality of information. Basically they said improve ah their exact words for like. 20:07.30 Max Shank Fake news. 20:23.40 mikebledsoe Improve a person's knowledge that 1 kind of made me chuckle. Um and and reduce identity Theft. So All these things sound good at face value Hate speech. Protect children reduce conflict in society security to a country's government I P for artists inventors stop False Content. You want just break each 1 of these down. 20:46.80 Max Shank Sure we could I mean Hate Speech is funny because who who decides where's the line. 20:52.36 mikebledsoe Why I think when you jump right to the end max I think I think that um I mean all this all this comes down to who decides on all these topics is and just so you were saying about Thomas so so soul 21:01.16 Max Shank That's what I do. Um, yeah. Soul Oh My God He's the man you should watch ah the out never mind I'll tell you later it's He's good though. 21:11.96 mikebledsoe Haven't read a ship before I have to check it out. Ah so. 21:20.27 mikebledsoe Cool. Ah yeah, it's like who who decides and I think that ah people tend to treat people who are in office as some type of superior being that knows better than them. And I get talking to people about this and the way they talk about it I'm going Wow You really believe that there are people who I I understand there are these people who are experts but ah the people that you've decided to trust are just people who happen to be in office or were appointed by people who were in office. And're not necessarily. They're the best policy makers. They're the best at creating policy which is making rules for other people to follow, but they're not the best that really anything else. They're really good at control. Oh yeah. 22:06.66 Max Shank I Disagree I Disagree I think they I think you can either do good or you can do well and I think the people who can do well who can play the game who can be charismatic sociopaths who are hungry for more power and willing to distribute it. Are the ones who are in Charge. Definitely not the people who are best at making policies that are effective in improving. Oh well I mean yeah, that's. 22:31.36 mikebledsoe Well I'm not saying good policies I'm just saying ah the creation of policies is about control. 22:41.25 Max Shank True and what I'm saying is the people who hold those positions of power aren't even necessarily the ones who are writing those policies. It's just the ones who are the most power hungry who then hire like lawyers and there's lobbying and stuff like that. So when we ask. Who decides? That's 1 of the big problems mean lobbying is a crazy bad problem right? and we don't have time. We don't have time if I mean if you look at how that works you would. It's almost enough to blow your brains out and be like this is game over like how did this happen. 23:06.95 mikebledsoe Insane. 23:16.84 mikebledsoe Oh. 23:19.32 Max Shank But ah now as far as who decides it's always the people who are the most power hungryngry because by definition they're going to have the biggest incentive to get that power because if you're in that situation. It's painful to not have. That level of power and everything comes back from pain being the primary motivator hunger desire pain all Synonyms. So. It's no surprise that the biggest incentive actually is to maintain that authority and the other. Authority is basically just you must trust me Blindly and it goes back to our 2 common rhetorical fallacies or logical fallacies which are appeal to authority and ad homism attack and they're the 2 arguments. Totally disregard the argument and instead focus on the arguer and this is this is where we get into why it's efficient to just trust somebody else like hey doctor science you you make my health decisions for me. 24:19.55 mikebledsoe Yeah. 24:33.62 Max Shank Is load off my mind so much easier I can understand the desire to do that and it's also so much faster to just write somebody off Oh that guy that guy max he's fucking Crazy. Don't listen to him don't even listen to anything he says he's just a. Crazy Conspiracy Theorist Nut Job Jerk I don't know you get it. 24:57.35 mikebledsoe Yeah, amazing thing about ah I've also got a list of which I want to hit I started a list of basically overt and covert censorship and the the labeling of things is. 25:07.40 Max Shank Ah. 25:15.47 Max Shank Um, how about essential how about essential. 25:16.61 mikebledsoe Ah, very interesting right? Yeah yeah, it's yeah I'd say I'm putting down labeling as censorship I Hate speech. 25:34.25 Max Shank What about it? Ah no, it's not nice, but I don't know people basically will dig their own grave by being hateful. 25:35.72 mikebledsoe Is there anything wrong with it. 25:50.63 mikebledsoe Yeah, that's a very wise place to sit from what about for the fools out there. 25:58.30 Max Shank But for well I don't hate the fools I like fools. Um, once again I don't think there's a problem with ignorance. Nothing wrong with that I'm ignorant about most things arrogance which is like I know what's best for you. 26:00.49 mikebledsoe Um. 26:17.34 Max Shank Instead of I know what's best for me. That's rather problematic and yeah I don't understand the the need or even the definition of hate Speech like could I could I call you a homo but not a fag Just for example. 26:29.38 mikebledsoe Um, well, um, yeah. 26:36.69 Max Shank I like homos frankly I think they're a really exuberant bunch. It seems like they almost ah get a. It seems like they crack the code. You know what? I mean like they get like the mail. 26:50.90 mikebledsoe Oh yeah. 26:55.29 Max Shank Sexual energy. But they also get the feminine like exuberance and they seem a little bit more liberated like it seems like pretty fun Actually I'm not sexually attracted to dudes. But if I were I would have had it would be so easy. 27:03.58 mikebledsoe Yeah. 27:09.79 mikebledsoe You be so good at it. Yeah, so it's um, well I'm reading this book right now the cuddling of the american mind and 1 of the things they talk about is ah they talk about this view that that. 27:13.70 Max Shank And be such a good homo. 27:29.43 mikebledsoe Words are violence and that you know if you so yeah, yeah, well this is this is what's going on in up and they're looking specifically at colleges and academics in academic settings where people are being. 27:32.11 Max Shank Sounds like a collapse distinction. 27:46.61 mikebledsoe Are invited to come speak and then people basically come out and say that this person is causing violence because they're saying something that causes an emotional trigger inside of them so there is this. Ah, there's this thing where people believe that. Ah, how. 27:55.47 Max Shank Ah. 28:06.15 mikebledsoe How they interpret your intention is your intention you're doing this to hurt me. It's like well I'm just speaking words and and so people have have confused ah emotional pain with physical injury. 28:23.11 Max Shank I Think people should be forced to wrestle and do a little boxing growing up so they can understand the distinction between physical violence and I don't actually think that but there's definitely a common nominator in people I've met at least. 28:23.12 mikebledsoe These these are 2 different things. 28:42.00 Max Shank Those who have some experience with martial arts boxing Jujitsu Judo something like that seem to have a much more realistic perception of the world. They seem to have less of this. Fear based lashing out for things that other people just say there's a big difference. Well and don't didn't we like blame Grand Theft Auto for for violence or something like that. 29:04.90 mikebledsoe Yeah, cause they're they're more in touch with cause and effect. 29:18.68 mikebledsoe Oh yeah. 29:20.81 Max Shank Haven't heard about like the hooker murder epidemic that resulted from that probably still way more people die as a result of alcohol but we try to we try to Cherry pick these things and I don't know we're always like fighting each other for a new reason you know the whole. 29:28.49 mikebledsoe Yeah. 29:38.98 Max Shank Idea of hate speech is where do you draw the line like let people say what they want let people um self- select their friend group. You know if if you say ah you know anyone with red hair should be ah shunned from Society. That's that's your opinion. Probably you won't be really popular with red-haired people. But it's like who cares. 30:01.57 mikebledsoe yeah yeah I had this conversation. Um I've had this conversation with my girlfriend a couple times which is like you know she I I ah I'm a fan of freedom so much that sometimes hurt like she's like having to catch up with me. 30:18.33 Max Shank Her her. 30:18.79 mikebledsoe And understanding how how it works and you know and she goes Well, what do you think about like people being able to discriminate on you know who's allowed in their store or not or or ah should someone be able to get fired just because of you know their race and I'm like yeah. I mean people are suing companies for getting fired so but they don't really actually want to work there but you want to work for somebody who's racist but like I think these policies that put people together that would normally not get along. 30:45.10 Max Shank But I. 30:56.15 mikebledsoe Doesn't cause them to actually get along. It's basically forcing people to interact who would who would normally voluntary in voluntarily not interact which could be an argument for reduction in total violence if people just go look you guys are gonna stay over there because I have this worldview and I'm going to stay over here because I have this worldview. 30:56.47 Max Shank The. 31:15.89 mikebledsoe Then Ah, we'd have a lot more peace but I think that. 31:19.40 Max Shank It's like the chess club and the bat the baseball club don't really hang out. 31:21.27 mikebledsoe Right? And so like this this idea that like because that government caused segregation and then all of a sudden ah government becomes the cause for integration and it's in both cases it causes violence. And so I think if you just let people if the government was responsible for segregation which it was and then they just said you know what we're not going to cut no more rules around Segregation Society would a piece of peacefully integrated I believe a lot more quickly and peacefully. Then what we witnessed. Ah, it was extremely violent because it went it just swung from 1 side of the pendulum to another inside of this idea that the government is in ultimate control over who we interact with. 32:11.84 Max Shank Well, and ultimately you can't have a conditional statement for every eventuality back to the whole computer science thing of if this then this if this than this you would just have an even bigger. Book of rules and really the only thing we should be concerned with is coercion right? like it doesn't matter if um, you are a racist like think how hard it is to be a racist you got to carry that hate with you every day. Or or even worse just imagine if you were a pedophile that would be probably like the worst luck of the draw ever and as long as that person doesn't act on that. That's probably just like okay you know what I mean like even. In India for example and I'm just using this example because it's the 1 that is the most inflammatory but in India you have arranged marriage between 30 year old dudes and 12 year old girls all the time that's common practice. But this idea that. We should um basically like minority report people for what they say is problematic like if someone feels a certain way. That's not a crime if someone coerces another person then it is a crime and I think. Extending the jurisdiction. Beyond coercion is a real mistake and that's where you get this more like hive mind Mentality. You get an over concentration of power and no question. There are advantages. To a concentration of power but they're also extreme disadvantages just the same if you are going to put all your eggs in 1 Basket. You know I just remember this video of Mussolini giving a speech and he just raised his fists in the air and goes 1 country 1 decision and everyone's like. Yeah they're so excited that they don't have to make any decisions anymore because he's gonna do all that hard work for him and that is a natural sentiment. We. We want to get we want to get more for less. We don't want to do anything. It's very natural. So. 34:32.56 mikebledsoe Well I think I. 34:41.50 Max Shank We want to be as efficient as possible, but there's a huge cost to that you are putting yourself at risk of total loss rather than diversifying that power along all the people. That's why it's so important to vote with your dollars. 34:57.84 mikebledsoe Yeah, did you listen to that you listen to that rogan I don't listen to a lot of rogan but every once in a while something comes on my radar that that North korean woman. Did you listen that whole episode. Yeah, ah 1 of the things that really struck me with that was. 35:00.85 Max Shank It's an it's a self-correting. 35:08.69 Max Shank Um, yeah I did. 35:17.63 mikebledsoe And think we even talked about this now that I'm thinking about it is she said that when she was exposed to freedom. She had a hard time she if she there was too many choices. There are so many choices to make that within five minutes she had become physically fatigued and mentally for. 35:29.81 Max Shank Yeah. 35:37.53 mikebledsoe Fatigue from being exposed to choice because she didn't have any because Kim jong un was making all the decisions for her. Ah her entire life. So as a 13 year old is just oh what do you want to eat well how many options do I have oh a dozen. 35:45.14 Max Shank Right. 35:55.76 Max Shank What What do you want to watch on Tv tonight you can pick from any of these four hundred thousand view options. Yes to it's too many choices. So that's kind of that's the positive side of distributing those choices. 35:55.97 mikebledsoe Okay, this is this really got difficult. 36:01.89 mikebledsoe Oh my God I can't watch Tv because of that. 36:15.90 Max Shank Like part of the reason family units have often worked so well in the past is because you have what's called comparative advantage. You know the lady um will just alienate all the ladies now too. You know back in the day. The lady would take care of the house and. As a homeowner myself I think that's a super important job taking care of a house is is its own job. Especially if you have kids around women are naturally better at nesting and nurturing the guy goes out. He just focuses on 1 thing which is going. And bringing home the bacon whether he's a farmer or a hunter or ah, a businessman of some kind so divvying up the responsibilities based on ability is super beneficial. So it's natural that you would want to. Get the people who are best at what they do to do the job for you. 37:16.58 mikebledsoe Agreeing. Ah, one last note I want to make on the hate speech is 1 of the things that I've noticed is well yeah, um I think if you say something racist is is the number 1 thing. 37:21.91 Max Shank I Still don't even know what that means was it mean naughty words. 37:33.30 Max Shank Shut up Pinky Shut up pinky. 37:33.28 mikebledsoe Or homophobic or something like that. What's that? yeah so that what? um, well yeah, but well my ah my buddy danny who's from Wahaca he's mexican and they. 37:40.87 Max Shank Um, we're hardly white. Definitely definitely Pink. There. 37:53.17 mikebledsoe He's like I don't know why we're called colored people and you're white you guys change colors all the time you get red you get white. You get like you like you're always changing colors like I'm the same color all the time you're the colored people. Ah but the the thing that's made me. Ah, anytime. 38:01.53 Max Shank Like moon. Yeah. 38:12.60 mikebledsoe Somebody in the last couple of years you know racism has been such ah a prominent conversation in the last couple years is people go oh that person's racist and I go well why? and then ah ah, a lot. Ah a lot of times. There's not a specific instance. They just. 38:24.32 Max Shank It's an ad hom attack. So easy. 38:29.98 mikebledsoe It's become the common narrative that that person's racist and then they'll take words out of context for instance like Trump people say Trump's racist. 38:31.37 Max Shank Um, but the. Or how about any of the many things that I've said on this podcast. There are enough 5 to ten second clips on here that could have me pilloried. Ah. 38:43.51 mikebledsoe And so it's people will go Oh there's there's there's like plot for Trump For instance I'm not a Trump fan didn't vote for him. So ah, that makes me good. Well this is There's my caveat to the this my argument here. 38:53.72 Max Shank That makes you good to to most of the listeners. 39:02.65 mikebledsoe Which is I Also don't think he's racist I don't think he's so many of the things that the media made him out to be and ah and because he did a lot of things that if you look at it policy wise he did a lot of things for the black community if you look at it ah at black and white. On paper. He did more than Barack Obama did for the black community and yet he got painted a racist because who the fuck really knows why that that he was. He's unpopular amongst the elites. That's that's what makes me curious about that guy. Again I'm not a big fan I'm not a Q Andon Person. Ah and it has been interesting to watch people go really pro Trump as much as you know is when they I just feel like there's a big opportunity that was missed and that people are they just shift. Who they think should be the Authority instead of realizing that it's that the authority is ah is a artificial construct. But ah. 40:05.98 Max Shank It's. 40:11.45 Max Shank It's all a means of disqualifying the argument of the individual or hyperqualify hey you know trust Doctor science ah fuck this racist pedophile guy I mean if I ever. 40:17.11 mikebledsoe Oop. 40:22.54 mikebledsoe Um, yeah. 40:26.32 Max Shank Started if I was ever in a race for office I would never discuss the policy of my opponent I Would only say I can't believe that I have to run against such a racist pedophile with a dog fighting ring in his basement I Don't think the American people. Want to have a racist pedophile dog abuser in office am I right? people I would never I would never I would never talk about policy people don't care I would only attack the worst things this guy could do ever. 40:56.98 mikebledsoe Well I mean that this is what happened the narrative in the last election was the Democrats are pedophiles and the republicans are a racist. It's pretty much like that it was just if you really take a step back. You go? Oh yeah, that was. 41:07.92 Max Shank Um, it's just name. It's just name calling. Yeah. 41:16.80 mikebledsoe That was except the only thing was was it was alternative media that was pumping up the pedophilia conversation. It was mainstream media that was pumping up the racist conversation up. Yeah Abc Nbc cnn. 41:24.10 Max Shank Well, what's mainstream just the big the big names. What's funny if you look at the amount of actual viewers now and the amount of traffic people like Joe Rogan actually have way more. Ah. 41:39.25 mikebledsoe Joe Rogan has more gets more downloads than I think all the major news agencies have combined. 41:46.95 Max Shank Well I was talking to a good friend of mine and even he agrees because very mainstream guy you know watching all the different news stations and he's like you know Joe Rogan We agreed has just built up so much credibility because he has done so many hours and so many hours where. 42:06.62 mikebledsoe Um, no yeah I wouldn't want to fight the man. 42:06.69 Max Shank He's not arrogant and I mean maybe about fighting sometimes but he does know a lot about fighting too. No no, no, no, no, no, definitely not I Just mean about like knowing about styles of fighting like he knows so much and sometimes you're like oh really? okay. 42:20.21 mikebledsoe Right? right. 42:26.70 Max Shank But he doesn't Lie. He doesn't try to hide Anything. He's very open about everything so he's actually built up this crazy credibility and that's something super powerful and I'm sure he has some awareness. The clout that he has developed but that's got to be such a ah scary thing at the same time knowing Yeah, it's amazing I Hope he wins. Yeah yeah I Hope he wins. 42:44.50 mikebledsoe Oh I'm sure. Well you hear he's ah he's suing Cnn Yeah I Hope he gets a lot of money out of them. Yeah, but of course Cnn just has a budget for that kind of shit. So. 43:02.20 Max Shank Um, well it's probably being funded by our taxpayer dollars and money that is printed out of thin air I mean you look at the way that well you look at the way that. 43:09.48 mikebledsoe Well pharmaceutical companies I mean yeah, the money the money's going the money's going from them printing it off to the pharmaceutical companies to the news media. That's that's the line of information. That's how the information is flowing right now. And you can tell because Pfizer is fucking advertising like crazy I I can find a super clip where someone put together that super clip which is basically how much Pfizer is advertising on the news where people are going to get information about. 43:32.50 Max Shank I saw. 43:45.94 mikebledsoe How they're going to live their life basically ah and make decisions and what they believe and then everything is advertised. Do you think that if you were 1 a top Journalist for cnn is there any benefit to you ah talking negatively about vaccinations. That's right. 44:01.19 Max Shank Only if I want to lose my job mike. 44:05.87 mikebledsoe So it's sponsors in a way can be a form of censorship. So if say we say we took on a sponsor and this yeah. 44:14.60 Max Shank Of course flaming hot Cheetos get at us. 44:22.45 mikebledsoe We're never going to talk shit about Cheetos if that happens we're only going to talk about how many cheetahs we had over the weekend. How tasty they were. Oh yeah yeah. yeah 44:26.67 Max Shank We might even invent a fat loss diet based on flaming hot cheetos which would be easy to do I think you could eat a diet of like forty percent of your calories. From flaming hot cheetos and still lose weight as long as everything else was dialed in. 44:40.98 mikebledsoe But ah, something something just jumped into my my awareness here that the conversation we've had so far has actually been very dense even though you know you and I are just having fun but I can imagine somebody says hey you need to listen to this show. Check out this show on censorship that mike and Max did and when they're listening. They might if this is the first time they're exposed to this type of conversation could be getting overwhelmed and going oh shit I don't believe anything and I say that because I've I've been in conversations where before where I can. Watch people physically start to contort their body because they realize how much they don't know they they begin to yeah, they begin to realize and what ends up happening is like you can't unknow what you know ah at ah. 45:23.29 Max Shank Well, it's very uncomfortable. 45:33.67 Max Shank If you drink enough booze you can. 45:35.36 mikebledsoe For certain things. Yeah, it's true. But ah you you can't unknow this shit and people get uncomfortable because it it you begin to realize that 1 hundred percent of the responsibility is on your shoulders when you thought that it was on someone else's Shoulders. And that that responsibility is scary and when you take on the responsibility of developing your own Wisdom. It's a lot of work and going back to your efficiency thing. You know people are become very accustomed to a high amount of. Efficiency and um I mean some could blame capitalism for that and because there's this this level of comfort and not having to think and then all of a sudden we lay something out there. So I I bring that up because I want to acknowledge it for anyone who's listening and just say. You know it's okay, it's okay, you go fuck I don't know what to believe anymore. All the information is false. Um, yeah I mean just and I think that way you got to get to that point is understanding that most of what you think is a lie and yeah. 46:47.75 Max Shank I'll simplify it down if you if you don't mind. Yeah, it's I like to take things to the extremes I don't know if you've noticed that about me. But. 46:50.98 mikebledsoe Please. 46:56.53 mikebledsoe Yeah, I'm not accustomed to that type of lifestyle. 47:01.94 Max Shank You're you're more of a middle ground type of guy. Ah, okay, if you had to choose between believing everything you read and see and believing nothing you believe and see then it would be safer to believe nothing so it's safer to believe nothing. And you can be sure that there's always an intent behind every message that you see to persuasion just to get you to buy to try to cry to laugh. Whatever and my my personal it goes back to once again, computer science which is. So heavily logic based I so I still know like almost nothing about it but the concept of trust but verify and that verify is your responsibility.. It's always your responsibility to verify for yourself and you. 47:58.19 mikebledsoe Yeah, well well, there's there's been Ah, there's been a trick played on the common person and that ah ah, the fact, the fact, the fact checkers. The fact checkers. 48:10.15 Max Shank You can't possibly know. 48:16.16 mikebledsoe Are playing the role of verify people think they're verifying by doing a Google search and seeing fact check in the title and then go. 48:21.97 Max Shank No, no, it's your responsibility to verify. You're right though that is a trap. 48:26.72 mikebledsoe But people people think they are verifying when they do that because people will Google and they go well fact check I'm like really yeah. 48:32.20 Max Shank But that's just that's just trusting another guy like so whenever you're thinking about these things. It's best to try to reduce the number of parties involved. So for example, if there are 3 of us you me and some other guy. And some other guy says hey mike if you give me a hundred bucks now I'll give you a thousand next week and then you're like hu and let me verify that and you ask me and I'm like yeah you can trust him that's like basically the same thing it doesn't change anything right. So you have to keep it always does come back to that responsibility is upon the individual and if you take the responsibility which is your ability to respond also away from the individual then you are opening the door for totalitarianism which. There are advantages and disadvantages. You can move much further much faster I think china has gotten a lot more people out of poverty in the last twenty years than before under a form of totalitarianism. But. 49:46.29 mikebledsoe Ah, totalitarianism combined with capitalism. 49:48.28 Max Shank With that concentration right? That's very good point So we have capitalism combined with we have Crony capitalism. 49:57.96 mikebledsoe A. 49:59.32 Max Shank Unfortunately, which is where you're allowed to lobby and make rules that are not the same for everybody and all these backwards incentives. But my point is there are advantages to concentrating power and there are also huge disadvantages and if you blindly follow something you are opening the door. For a very small minority to call the shots for everybody and that's basically what slavery looks like and you might be a happy little slave but you're still not free or responsible for Yourself. You got to follow the money with all this stuff. That's the best. That's the best. 50:28.64 mikebledsoe Um, yeah, yeah. 50:37.20 Max Shank Paper trail or trail crumbs to find out. What's really going on is how's that money changing hands. And yeah, you know what? I've I've gone through a similar thing just back to what you're saying. It's it's super uncomfortable to realize that. Most of what you taught you were taught was a waste of time and most of the information that's been passed off as news has been flagrant lies with only the intention of making you more dependent and ah obedient. You know by Bye bye trust trust trust. 51:14.63 mikebledsoe But ah, 1 of the things you're talking about you've been talking about you know? Ah, it's trusting someone else creates efficiency but also leaves door open for abuse and 1 of the things that I tell people. 51:15.96 Max Shank Right? It's uncomfortable. But. 51:33.50 mikebledsoe When we start talking about where are you getting your information talking about the verify piece where are you getting your information while I'm getting it from this person. My great and you know say they're talking about something like a virus. It's like yeah I'm not a virologist you know I am not going to know a lot about that I would say that I know a lot about health. 51:35.31 Max Shank My. 51:52.30 Max Shank I would say so I'll verify that you know a lot about health fact I fact checked you? Yeah check mark. 51:52.90 mikebledsoe Which I think is really all you gotta know? Ah, yeah, thank you thank you listen to Max folks. He's smart guy. Yeah fact, check complete. So um, my my thing is when I start talking to people about who I listen to so. Yeah I I don't pretend like I've gone out and obtained all the knowledge and wisdom in the world. But what I do is I listen to wise people and ah and I qualify those people is what's the advice they've given over time which I think people have all our time. Even running that filter people don't really remember their their attention spans pretty fucking short. So what is their track record. That's my first thing when it comes to verifying is is what's their track record. Not not what pieces of paper. They've got not what credentials not what are not what are the letters behind their name. My question is. 52:33.20 Max Shank Everybody man 1 52:42.36 Max Shank Community not. 52:49.12 mikebledsoe What's their track record how sort of I'm listening to somebody about Health I Go What's their health like this is why I listen to Paul Check people go you know? Ah, ah you Know'm I'm gonna listen to this person or this person because they have these credentials and I go yeah but Paul check is is a. Great example of this. Not only has he mastered his own health The dude 60 years old and I'm pretty sure he can outlift me ah and he he ah he moves Well he has you know. 53:16.54 Max Shank Ah, well you you don't really prioritize lifting. But that's true. He could. 53:26.98 mikebledsoe Is sex life is vibrant from what I can tell the way he talks about it anyway. Ah the guy. Ah but all the Paul Trek fans are gonna laugh there. Ah but there. 53:30.98 Max Shank Um, I thought I thought you had participated never mind. 53:45.28 mikebledsoe I think we share a lot of the same audience. Um, but but he's got ah, he's got a track record of helping other people and he's mastered in himself and like who else am I who else has done that at 60 53:46.82 Max Shank I Think it's right What you're saying is right? It's about track record. 53:58.13 Max Shank So he walks the walk. He has a track record that you have seen develop over time and also the other thing that I would add to that is the incentive. 53:59.90 mikebledsoe You know Andy's older and he's got. He's got the wisdom on its side that time. 54:14.37 mikebledsoe A. 54:15.31 Max Shank What's the incentive. So when you're trying to um, decipher a new bit of information and part of it is just reducing the total bits. Otherwise you're going to be bombarded with a fire hose but who is to gain from what you're hearing that that is the number 1 question. So take everything else off the table who who gains from this message that you're hearing that is the number 1 thing is incentive and then because that's just about the argument and then the second part is consider the source. So that's where you start seeing. Okay well this person has led me led me the right way for a long time meanwhile the laundry list of lies and misinformation about health from these allegedly trusted entities. Is a mile long I mean how about eggs and it doesn't matter if the intentions are good even intentions. Good bad doesn't matter. It's more about what is the result of those things. So if if you're afraid of fruit because it's got too much sugar. 55:23.79 mikebledsoe What's the outcome does it this kind of goes in and I hate Speech this goes in the hate speech thing because like what people say what they do are different but this where outcome outcome is ah very important here. 55:29.84 Max Shank Yeah, of course like why would we? Well you know for Healthcare like why would we let the people making the decisions about Healthcare have a different plan than they agreed On. That's insanity. That's crazy. They so the people who create policy for Health. Don't use that same plan. Yeah, that's insane. That's insane like where is the Incentive. So. 55:50.00 mikebledsoe That can you repeat that. So the people Oh oh you talk about the medical care. Yeah. 56:06.42 Max Shank Incentive is the number 1 thing considering the source is probably the number 2 thing and then maybe the third thing is just an overall reduction in the amount of bits that you take in and this is tough because Dopamine is all about an external thing. You take in. You're like oh something something from out there to add in to my my self here and it takes you away from potentially creating really valuable projects and the the thing is you don't need to be. Plugged in all the time you don't need to be absorbing every new bit of misinformation out there. In fact, all it does mostly is distract you from what's really important in your life which is nurturing the relationships that you care about or nurturing the projects that you care about. And creating and expressing yourself in different ways and I I really like the simple idea of if you don't express you will feel depressed simple as that and it doesn't matter if you paint or play music or. 57:16.54 mikebledsoe If. 57:23.70 Max Shank Chat with a friend for a few hours or an hour. There are lots of ways to express yourself? Um, but if you're constantly seeking that the feed from outside you're going to become like mentally obese and it's going to be full of toxic bullshit. 57:42.60 mikebledsoe A a. 57:43.54 Max Shank Right? So just to recap its incentive source and then probably reduction would be like the third if I had to pick 3 57:52.27 mikebledsoe I like it. It's a good that's a good ah order to go in you'll you'll ah I think by just applying the first 2 you'll reduce the amount of people you're even looking at or piece information you're you're paying attention to. 58:04.66 Max Shank Oh yeah, people would say that I'm crazy for how little I trust anything I read or see but not nuds. It's true because. 58:12.44 mikebledsoe Um, well I I think that if you've ever gone through the process of questioning what you believe and what you think I think if you've never done that which most people have never sat there and analyzed their own thinking and gone is what I believe actually true. Once you believe once you have had the experience of realizing that most of your thoughts are complete bullshit then you should then understand that everyone else's thoughts are just they probably have the same amount of bullshit running around and most people are just expressing. They're bullshit all the time and the majority of what's flying around is just bullshit. There's very little truth very little truth in there. Totally unintentional. 58:53.92 Max Shank And it's not ah and and it's often not intentional. You know for a long time I I was told the knees should not cross the toes during a squat if you're bending over your back should not bend. 59:10.31 mikebledsoe Yeah, right? yeah. 59:12.36 Max Shank In fact, basically your back should never bend under load is this thing I believed and some people still believe that some people believe the exact opposite of that and and that's okay too. But oh yeah, oh yeah I mean. 59:21.88 mikebledsoe Have you seen this knees over toes guy on Instagram his shit is good and his whole his whole his whole the name of his Instagram is controversial and he's blowing up. It's good. 59:31.36 Max Shank I. Right? It's it's brilliant as brilliant marketing I think it looks mostly sound. Obviously it's not the way that I would approach overall health and fitness. But I think the message is overall good. Which is you're not fragile and it's good to bravely explore these ranges of motion. Um I got did I tell you about the third round monkeys third round monkey rule is perfect for this episode. 59:59.80 mikebledsoe Yeah. 01:00:07.35 mikebledsoe No. 01:00:12.70 Max Shank Its really short. It's not that short, but it's short enough. Yeah, sure. 01:00:13.14 mikebledsoe Do you want to you want to take this show an hour and a half by the typical hour because I I think we have might I've covered like half of what's in my fucking Notebook right now. 01:00:23.80 Max Shank Well, let's let's let it ride but here's an important thing to realize and it's about Mythology. So Third round I have all these that I try to organize stuff. So it's simpler to remember so I have this 1 called Third round monkeys which is about a scientific study. They did. With monkeys in a room with a ladder and a bowl of fruit at the top and so they had like 6 monkeys in there and 1 starts to go up for the fruit and the researchers immediately hose off all the Monkeys. With a fire hose all of them. Not just the 1 who climbed up for it and so then they all stop doing that so they're all just sitting around not going near the ladder because they know they'll get the hose and then they take out half the monkeys and replace them. With new monkeys. So now you have a combined group a and group b 1 of the new monkeys starts climbing up the ladder and 1 of the older ones are the all the older ones start beating it up because they know that if he does that they're all going to get the hose. So then once again, you have this group of like 6 monkeys or so doing nothing then they take away the first monkeys and they add in the third round monkeys same thing. 1 of the new monkeys. Sees a bowl of bananas or fruit or something up there starts going up the ladder and the second round monkeys beat him up mercilessly and so now you have like 6 monkeys not going near the fruit and none of them have seen the fire hose. They don't know why they don't know why they're beating. They're beating these new Monkeys. They just know that if you go up the ladder you get beaten and that's how a lot of information gets transmitted. It's just I was talking with ah my friend victoria. 01:02:31.56 mikebledsoe Bunch of hearsay. 01:02:34.98 Max Shank The other day and we were playing this game called ah fuck that last guy high five that last guy because so many things from the past are amazing. It's incredible and some things. We're just like oh fuck that guy that guy sucks like he really ruined it for everybody else and that's sort of how we have gotten to this point some things you blindly believe but we don't We don't really know why. 01:02:52.94 mikebledsoe E. 01:03:08.53 mikebledsoe Probably most things so lot lot has just been passed down. 01:03:15.45 Max Shank I'm kind of I'm becoming more and more and of of ah, an objectivist but there's a caveat to that because objectivism is like just believing what you can experience firsthand but I also believe there's obvious be way more than that. 01:03:25.25 mikebledsoe Yeah, but also. 01:03:32.18 Max Shank That is beyond my sensory perception. 01:03:33.54 mikebledsoe Well I think I think that the I would say this the way I'm very objective is the way I operate is is I I Really do my best to believe only what I can verify with my own senses and ah everything else. 01:03:52.70 Max Shank Yeah, that's tricky. 01:03:52.13 mikebledsoe Just take with a grain of salt which like maybe maybe and then also you know the way that I think you and I both live our lives is we have done enough reflection to create our ah philosophy and principles in which we live our lives and which means that. I don't have to know that much information you don't have to know that information to make good choices. Ah, and so for instance, the idea of what we see what we witness in nature is what happens anytime we isolate something. We isolate a cell from being able to talk to other cells in the human Body. What happens the cell starts to replicate in a way that causes cancer right? when it can't communicate with the other cells. Yeah it it dies but and and it's. 01:04:40.15 Max Shank Or it dies right? I mean depends on the environment. 01:04:46.35 mikebledsoe And it's attempt to live on it will replicate unhealth in an unhealthy way. Yeah, it'll die or it'll replicate in a cancer way right? has no direction right? It's not getting the right inputs. Um, what's a. 01:04:50.49 Max Shank Um, in in an in a way that is that has no direction. Basically it's like growth without direction bingo. 01:05:05.40 mikebledsoe But guy who described this. He's a really he used to work in cancer and now he he's ah he's 1 these really great docs to listen to. Ah, he's is my name maybe his name will pop into my head here in a minute but ah, ah, but when things are integrated when you integrate something like. A lot of what happens with health is how well things are integrated with each other and in systems support each other and everything is whether the cell or an organ or your joints if you so if you've studied health and you really recognize? oh. And you witness what are the results of isolation and what are this the results of of integration and then you watch that happen socially to what are the results of isolation and what are the results of integration and. Not force integration but just allowing things to integrate naturally. 01:05:58.30 Max Shank No system works in isolation is a phrase for health. 01:06:02.30 mikebledsoe Yeah, and so I don't need to understand all the details of how these people theoretically think this virus works by the way. It's all theory. The basis in which. The virologists are making decisions. It's based on a theory which is called Germ Theory ah that was the 1 Yeah. 01:06:21.75 Max Shank Ah, crap we're gonna get censored now fuck that was it that was the that was the 1 thing you're not allowed to talk about I said fag earlier we were probably gonna be okay with that. It's because those guys can take a joke. 01:06:33.90 mikebledsoe Ah, we definitelin? Yeah, so but ah, you know people people. It's 1 of those things I get in conversation with people I'm like why are you operating from germ theory or are you more familiar with terrain theory. And then people go I don't know what you're talking about I go oh well, do you believe that you know just being exposed to a germ is going to make you sick and like well yeah, that's that's what's happening they go. Okay, then then you're a germ theory person. You don't even know it and yet that's the postulate in which. All these arguments are being made from the idea of isolating yourself. Don't go outside wear a mask stay 6 feet apart. These are all isolated. This isolation makes sense inside of germ theory. But even the person who founded germ theory. Ah, with his name Louis pasture was 1 of the the people who really put germ theory on the map at the end of his life of saying I made a fucking mistake. You know he was the 1 that was in charge of pasteurizing milk. Best of intentions but seti made a mistake so you got this guy that everyone praises for for inventing pasteurization. 01:07:40.77 Max Shank With the best of intentions. 01:07:50.14 Max Shank Ah. 01:07:50.77 mikebledsoe We passed here and yet at the end of his life. He says don't do what I said earlier stay away from it and yet no 1 listens to that. so so um everybody governments medical boards. All these things bought into germ theory and ah. 01:07:56.64 Max Shank What how tricky. 01:08:09.80 mikebledsoe I go back to? Well, what's the result of our medical system operating from ah germ theory. Well what are we produced. We hav

EmpowerHER
[PEP TALK] A reminder to step back & see the BIG PICTURE

EmpowerHER

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 15, 2021 8:43


Today's pep talk is designed to feel a little like a HUG, because sometimes  sometimes when we are in the day to day, just going through the motions, we don't SLOW DOWN to think of the big picture or how these TINY little things that we're doing that might actually seem pretty EASY to do, are also easy NOT TO DO and the CHOICE that we are making to DO THOSE things, really does compound into creating this life that we want. So if you're ever WONDERING, “AM I DOING ENOUGH?” this episode is going to be your jam! Wanna connect more outside of the podcast?  #1- Come jump in our *TOTALLY FREE* EmpowerHER Podcast LISTENER COMMUNITY group! If you LOVE this podcast & want to connect with like minded women from ALL across the globe that love it too, you don't need to be a podcaster or entrepreneur, this group is for anyone that wants to hop in!!You can request to join here: www.kaciafitzgerald.com/freegroup where you will get a bounceback email with the Facebook link! #2- Be sure to hop on my TOTALLY free TEXT list called #TextsFromKac Where you can join to get PUMP UP texts from me and all the JUICY news and fun perks!  Text a salsa dancer emoji or just come say HI via text +1 512-548-2728 to subscribe!   www.kaciafitzgerald.com/texts#3- My favorite social media platform (Instagram): My personal account→ @kacia.fitzgeraldOur company account  --->  @shegoes.company 

STEPH & RACH AREN'T FUNNY
IT'S ONLY OUR 3RD SEASON OUT HERE FT. TWO MIDDLE-AGED JEW SURPRISE GUESTS

STEPH & RACH AREN'T FUNNY

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 15, 2021 34:11


Everyone who listens has heard of these two guests SEVERAL times and we know you will TOTALLY enjoy hearing them speak with us for 33 minutes! Tune in for the best episode yet with two hilarious people. Spoiler alert, they're two middle-aged Jews! Music: Switch Me On by Shane Ivers - https://www.silvermansound.com --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/stephandracharentfunny/support

Legendary Life Podcast: Fitness I HealthI Nutrition I Healthy Lifestyle For People Over 30+, 40+
478: Food Tracking Made Easy: How to Track Your Food Without Becoming Totally Obsessive with Ted Ryce (Part 2)

Legendary Life Podcast: Fitness I HealthI Nutrition I Healthy Lifestyle For People Over 30+, 40+

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 15, 2021 38:35


In the first part of this series, we discussed food tracking, and Ted explained why it is the key to successful weight loss. In this second part, Ted reveals his five-step system to simplify food tracking, even if you're super busy. Tune in to take control of your nutrition and benefit from this weight loss secret weapon. 

Adventure Rider Radio Motorcycle Podcast. Travel Adventures, Bike Tech Tips

It all started when Keith Futcher saw a glossy photo in a glossy magazine that ignited a desire to ride a motorcycle to the Sahara to see a sunrise. Except Keith didn't own a motorcycle, neither did his brother or his friend, both of whom were planning to go with him. Furthermore, they had no riding experience, and certainly none off-road, in fact none of them even possessed a licence to ride a motorcycle. In addition to all that, Keith would be 70 and still they made a plan to ride into the African desert - it was the real deal. If you've enjoyed this episode please consider supporting this show by going to adventureriderradio.com/support and also check out our sponsors. Follow Adventure Rider Radio: Facebook: AdventureRiderRadio Instagram: @adventureriderradio Twitter: @ADVRiderRadio For more on this episode see the show notes at Adventure Rider Radio.