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Set the context for a joyful, exuberant day with a short, powerful message from Sadhguru. Explore a range of subjects with Sadhguru, discover how every aspect of life can be a stepping stone, and learn to make the most of the potential that a human being embodies.Conscious Planet: https://www.consciousplanet.org Sadhguru App (Download): https://onelink.to/sadhguru__appOfficial Sadhguru Website: https://isha.sadhguru.orgSadhguru Exclusive: https://isha.sadhguru.org/in/en/sadhguru-exclusive

In today's replay episode, Daniel Murray of ‘The Marketing Millennials' joins Dan Sanchez and James Carbary to discuss how he gained so much traction on their LinkedIn page. Many of us assume Company pages are dead. Yet Daniel Murray's page ‘The Marketing Millennials' went from 0 to 25,000+ followers in just 4 months! Learn what he tried and built and how you can do the same. 

SUMMARY: Overcoming Health Anxiety is possible! Today, we interview Ken Goodman and his client Maria on overcoming hpyochondria using Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. In this episode of Your Anxiety Toolkit Podcast, you will learn key concepts of health anxiety and how to overcome their health anxiety. In This Episode: What it is like to have health anxiety The key concepts of treating Hypochondria Tips for managing fears of death and cancer. A step-by-step approach to overcoming health anxiety. Links To Things I Talk About: https://www.kengoodmantherapy.com/ Quiet Mind Solutions ERP School: https://www.cbtschool.com/erp-school-lp Episode Sponsor: This episode of Your Anxiety Toolkit is brought to you by CBTschool.com. CBTschool.com is a psychoeducation platform that provides courses and other online resources for people with anxiety, OCD, and Body-Focused Repetitive Behaviors. Go to cbtschool.com to learn more. Spread the love! Everyone needs tools for anxiety... If you like Your Anxiety Toolkit Podcast, visit YOUR ANXIETY TOOLKIT PODCAST to subscribe free and you'll never miss an episode. And if you really like Your Anxiety Toolkit, I'd appreciate you telling a friend (maybe even two). EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION This is Your Anxiety Toolkit - Episode 226. Welcome back, everybody. If you have health anxiety, hypochondria, health anxiety disorder, or you know of somebody who has health anxiety, you are going to love this episode. I mean, love, love, love this episode. Today, we have Ken Goodman, who's on the show. He's a clinician who's here with his patient and they're sharing a success story, a recovery story of health anxiety, and it is so good. I am so honored to have both of them on. It was so fun to actually interview other people and the way they're doing it, and look at the steps that were taken in order to overcome health anxiety. And this is the overcoming health anxiety story of all stories. It is so, so good. I'm not going to waste your time going and telling you how good it is. I'm just going to let you listen to it because I know you're here to get the good stuff. Before we do that, I wanted to do the “I did a hard thing” and this one is from Dave. It says: “I've been trying to get back into meditating regularly. I was sitting at a desk this morning, reviewing my work emails. And I told myself, before I get even further in my day, I need to meditate. I did a guided meditation, even though I felt a strong pull inside to go back to work. I kept getting caught up in my thoughts, but I just kept telling myself it doesn't need to be a perfect meditation. I said the goal today is just to be able to sit without being busy for three minutes. Nothing more. It was hard, but I did it.” Dave, thank you so much for the submission of the “I did a hard thing” segment, because I think that meditation is so important. In fact, I keep promising myself I'm going to implement it more into this podcast. And Dave has really looked at some of the struggles people have with meditation. And look at him, go, it's so amazing. Totally did it. So amazing. Dave, thank you so, so, so much. I love it. If you want to submit, you may submit your “I did a hard thing” by going to KimberleyQuinlan-lmft.com. If you go to the podcast page, there is a submission page right on the website. And from there, let's just go straight to the show. I hope you enjoy it. Kimberley: Welcome. I am so excited for this episode. Welcome, Ken and welcome, Maria. Ken: Thank you for having me. Maria: Hi, Kimberley. Kimberley: So, as you guys, we've already chatted, but I really want to hear. This is really quite unique and we get to see the perspective of a client and the therapist. If I could do one of these every single week, I would. I think it's so cool. So, thank you so much for coming on and sharing. We're going to talk about health anxiety. And so, Maria, we're going to go back and forth here, but do you want to share a little bit about your experience with health anxiety? Maria: Yes. I think I've had health anxiety probably for like 15, 20 years and not known about it. Looking back now, everything comes clear when you see the multiple pictures that you've taken of certain lumps and whatever five years ago. I'm like, “Oh my gosh, I have so many pictures that I've taken and so many different things.” But yeah, I've been struggling for a while I think, and had multiple doctor's appointments. Until I realized that I had health anxiety, it was an everyday struggle, I think. Ken: Well, you came to me and you were mostly worried at the time about ticks and Lyme disease and skin cancer, but you told me that for the previous 15 years or so, you were worried about other things. What are those things? Maria: Well, I was mostly completely obsessed with moles on my skin and them being cancerous. And I was scared of ticks. I would not be able to walk through any grass or go hiking. I was scared that I would have to check my whole body to make sure that there were no ticks on me. I was completely scared of Lyme disease, and it just completely consumed my life really. And they were the main things. But looking back before that, I think that I always had a doctor's appointment on the go. I would book one, and as soon as they said, “You can book online,” That was it for me. I would have one booked, and then I'd go, “Oh, what if there's something else next week? You know what, I'm just going to book one for next week, just in case something comes up.” I am a terrible person when it comes to that because I'm taking up multiple doctor's appointments. And I knew that. But it was trying to reassure myself, trying to control the situation, trying to control next week already before it even happened. So, yeah. MARIA'S SYMPTOMS OF HEALTH ANXIETY Kimberley: Right. What did it look like for you? What did a day look like for you pre-treatment and pre-recovery? Maria: Some days it could be fine. I remember days where nothing was bothering me. It was such a nice feeling. And then I was scared because I never knew what was going to trigger me and it could be anything at any time. And I think that was the not knowing. And then as soon as I would latch onto something, I would come to the phone, I'd start Googling over and over again, hours of Googling and then checking. And then it was just ongoing. And then my whole day, I was in my head my whole day, just what if, what if, asking questions, going back to Google, trying to find that reassurance that of course never happened. Ken: Yeah. You tell me that you would take pictures of your moles and then compare them with the cancerous moles online and do those things. Maria: Yeah. And I would book-- and interestingly enough, looking back now, I went through a phase of always having a doctor's appointment. And then I also went through a phase of completely avoiding the doctor as well, not wanting to go because I didn't want them to say something that I knew was going to trigger a whole host of anxiety. So, I've gone through multiple doctors. And then once you start the doctor's appointments, then you're on a roller coaster. Because you walk away from that appointment, never feeling, or for me, never feeling reassured. Or feeling reassured for maybe a few minutes, and then you leave, and then the anxiety kicks in. “Oh, I never asked them this,” or “Oh my gosh, well, what did that mean?” And then the what-ifs start again and you're back to square one. So then, you go, “Oh, no, I didn't try just what they said. I'm going to book another appointment and this doctor is going to be the doctor that reassures me.” MANAGING DOCTOR VISITS WITH HYPOCHONDRIA Kimberley: Right. Or sometimes a lot of clients will say to me like, “The doctor made a face. What did that face mean? They made a look and it was just for a second, but were they questioning their own diagnosis and so forth?” And I think that is really common as well. Ken: Well, the doctor will say anything and it could be something very simple like, “Okay, you're all good. I'll see you in six months.” And the person will leave thinking, “Why would he want me to come back in six months if nothing was wrong?” Maria: Well, that's interesting that you would say that because I think probably at my lowest point, I was keeping notes about my thought process and what I was feeling when I was actually going to the doctors or waiting for the results. And actually, I thought it might-- if I have a few minutes to read what I actually was going through in real-time, I know it's probably very relatable. Kimberley: I would love that. Maria: I had gone to basically a doctor's appointment, an annual one where I knew I was going to have to have blood tests. And they're the worst for me because the anticipation of getting the results is just almost worse than getting the results, even though-- Ken: Did you write this before we met? Maria: No. While I was seeing you, Ken. Ken: In the beginning? Maria: Yeah. When you'd asked me to write down everything and write down what I was feeling, what I was thinking, and then read it back to myself. And this is what I had written down, actually, when I was going through the doctor's appointment and waiting or had just gotten the results. Kimberley: If you would share, that'd be so grateful. Maria: So, my blood results came back today. I felt very nervous about opening them. The doctor wrote a note at the top. “Your blood results are mostly normal. Your cholesterol is slightly high, but no need for medication. Carry on with exercise and healthy eating.” “Mostly,” what does that mean? “Mostly”? I need to look at all the numbers and make sure that everything is in the normal range. “Okay, they're all in the normal range except for my cholesterol. But why does she write mostly? Is there something else that she's not telling me? I need reassurance. I'm driving down to the doctor's right now. I can't wait the whole weekend.” I go into the doctor's office and ask them, “Is there a doctor who's able to explain to me my results?” The receptionist said, “No, you have to make another appointment.” I explained to her, “You don't understand. I just need somebody to tell me that everything is normal.” Finally, this nice lady saw the anxiety on my face. She calls the doctor over to look at the labs. The receptionist shows the doctor the one lab panel, and he says, “Everything is completely normal. Nothing was flagged. Everything is completely fine.” I thank him so much for looking and walk away. As soon as I get outside, I realize I didn't ask him to look at all the lab panels. What if she meant mostly normal on the other lab panels that I didn't show him? When I get home, I look over each one multiple times and make sure that each one is in the exact number range. After looking over them four or five times and seeing that each one is in the number range except for my cholesterol, I still feel like I need to have her explain to me why she wrote the word “mostly.” The crazy thing is I'm not concerned about the high cholesterol. I can control that. I don't know what she meant by the word “mostly.” I'm going to send her a message. And I'm going to ask her to clarify. I have to believe that she would tell me if something was wrong. I wish there was an off button in my head to stop me worrying about this. Ken: I remember this now. I remember. And this was in the middle. Maria was really avoiding going to the doctor and she had overdue with some physical exams. And so, we really worked hard for her to stop avoiding that. She got to the point where she felt good enough about going to the doctor. And she really, I think I remember her not having any anticipatory anxiety, handling the doctor very well, host the doctor very well, until she got the email and focused on the word “mostly.” And that sent her spiraling out of control. But the interesting thing about that whole experience was that we processed it afterwards, and that whole experience motivated her to try even harder. And then she took even bigger strides forward. And within a couple of months, she was really doing so much better. And I think it's been over a year now since that and continues to do really well. Kimberley: Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing that. I actually was tearing up. Tears were starting to come because I was thinking, I totally get that experience. I'm so grateful you shared it because I think so many people do, right? Maria: Yeah. And there's always and/or. You go into the doctor's appointment, they tell you everything. And because your adrenaline is absolutely pumping, you forget everything. And then you come out and you go, “Oh my gosh, I can't remember anything.” Then the anxiety kicks in and tells you what the anxiety is like, “Oh no, that must have been bad. That must have been--” yeah. Ken: And that boost in adrenaline that just takes over is so powerful. You can forget any common sense or any therapeutic strategies or tools that you might have learned because now you just get preoccupied with one word, the uncertainty of that word. Maria: Yeah. I would have to have a family member come in, my husband to come in and sit in the-- it got to that point where he would have to come in and sit in the appointment, so then after the appointment, I could have him retell me what was said, because I knew as soon as the adrenaline kicked in, I would not be able to remember anything. ROADBLOCKS TO HEALTH ANXIETY TREATMENT Kimberley: Right. Ken, this brings me straight to the next question, which would be like, what roadblocks do you commonly see patients hit specifically if they have health anxiety during recovery or treatment? Ken: Well, unlike other fears and phobias, the triggers for health anxiety are very unpredictable. So, if you have a fear of elevators, flying or public speaking, you know when your flight is going to be, you know when you have to speak or you know when you have to drive if you have a fear of driving. For health anxiety, you never know when you're going to be triggered. And those triggers can be internal, like a physical sensation, because the body is very noisy. And everyone experiences physical sensations periodically and you never know when that's going to happen. And then you never know external triggers. You never know when the doctor is going to say something that might trigger you, or you see a social media post about a GoFundMe account about someone that you know who knows someone who's been diagnosed with ALS. So, you never know when these things are going to happen. And so, you might be doing well for a couple of weeks or even a month, and suddenly there's a trigger and you're right back to where you started from. And so, in that way, it feels very frustrating because you can do well and then you can start becoming extremely anxious again. Another roadblock I think might be if you need medicine, there's a fear of trying medicine because of potential for side effects and becomes overblown and what are the long-term side effects, and even if I take it, I'm going to become very anxious. And so, people then are not taking the very thing, the medicine that could actually help them reduce their anxiety. So, that's another roadblock. Kimberley: Yeah. I love those. And I think that they're by far the most hurdles. And Maria, you could maybe even chime in, what did you feel your biggest roadblock to recovery was? Maria: Being okay with the unknown. Trying to be in control all the time is exhausting and trying to constantly have that reassurance and coming to terms with, “It's okay if I can't control everything. It's okay if I don't get the 100% reassurance that I need. It's good enough,” that was hard for me. And also, not picking up the phone and Googling was the biggest. I think once I stopped that and I was okay with not looking constantly, that was a huge step forward. Ken: You really learn to live with uncertainty. And I think you start to understand that if you had to demand 100% certainty, you had to keep your anxiety disorder. In order to be 100% certain, that meant keep staying anxious. Kimberley: Yeah. Being stuck in that cycle forever. Ken: You didn't want that anymore. You wanted to focus on living your life rather than being preoccupied with preventing death. SKILLS AND TOOLS TO OVERCOME HEALTH ANXIETY Kimberley: Right. So, Maria, I mean, that's probably, from my experience as a clinician, one of the most important skills, the ability to tolerate and be uncertain. Were there other specific tools that you felt were really important for your recovery at the beginning and middle and end, and as you continue to live your life? Maria: Yes. I think the biggest one was me separating my anxiety from myself, if that makes sense. Seeing it as a separate-- I don't even know, like a separate entity, not feeling like it was me. I had to look at it as something that was trying to control me, but I was fine. I needed to fight the anxiety. And separating it was hard in the beginning. But then I think once I really can help me to understand how to do that, at that point, I think I started to move forward a bit more. Kimberley: So, you externalized it. For me, I give it a name like Linda. “Hi, Linda,” or whatever name you want to give your anxiety. A lot of kids do that as well like Mr. Candyman or whatever. Maria: Yeah. It sat on my shoulder and try to get in my head. In the beginning, I would be brushing off my shoulder constantly. Literally, I must have looked crazy because I was brushing this anxiety off my shoulder every 10 minutes with another what-if. What if this? What if that? And I think I had to retrain my brain. I had to just start not believing and being distracted constantly by the “What if you do this” or “What if that?” and I'd say, “No, no.” Ken: Yeah. I'd treat a lot of health anxiety. I have a lot of health anxiety groups. And I do notice that the patients that can externalize their anxiety and personify it do way better than the people who have trouble with it. And so, whether it's a child or a teenager or an adult, I am having them externalize their anxiety. And I go into that, not only in my groups, but in the audio program I created called the Anxiety Solution Series. It is all about how to do that. And it makes things so much easier. If now you're not fighting with yourself, there's no internal struggle anymore because now you're just competing against an opponent who's outside of you. It makes things easier. Kimberley: Right. Yeah. And sometimes when that voice is there and you believe it to be you, it can make you feel a little crazy. But when you can externalize it, it separates you from that feeling of going crazy as well. Maria: I felt so much better as soon as I did that because I felt, “Okay, I think I can fight this. This isn't me. I'm not going crazy. This is something that I--” and I started to not believe. And it was long, but it was retraining my brain. And I would question the what-ifs and it didn't make sense to me anymore. Or I would write it down and then I would read it back to me, myself, and I'd be like, “That's ridiculous, what I just thought.” And the other tool which was hugely helpful was breathing, learning how to breathe properly and calm myself down. I mean-- Ken: Yeah. There's lots of different types of breathing out there. And so, I teach a specific type of breathing, which is, I call it Three by Three Relaxation Breathing, which is also in the Anxiety Solution Series. And it really goes over into detail, a very simple way to breathe that you can do it anywhere. You can do it in a waiting room full of people, because it's very subtle. It's not something where you're taking a big breath and people are looking at you. It's very, very subtle. You can do it anywhere. MEDITATION FOR HEALTH ANXIETY Kimberley: Ken, just so that I understand, and also Maria, how does that help someone? For someone who has struggled with breathing or is afraid of meditation hor health anxiety and they've had a bad experience, how does the breathing specifically help, even, like you were saying, in a doctor's appointment office? Maria: I've done it actually in multiple doctor's appointments where I've had that feeling of, “I've got to get out of here now.” It's that feeling of, “Uh, no. Right now, I need to leave.” Before, before I started, I would leave. And now I realized, no, I'm not. I'm going to sit and I'm going to breathe. And no one notices. No one can see it. You can breathe and it really does calm me down, especially in the past, I've had panic attacks and feeling like I can't breathe myself. When you start to realized that you can control it and it does relax you, it really helps me a lot. I do it all the time. Kimberley: It's like a distress tolerance tool then, would you say? Maria: It's something that I can carry around with me all the time, because everyone needs to breathe. Kimberley: Yeah. I always say that your breath is free. It's a free tool. You could take it anywhere. It's perfect. Maria: Yeah. So, it's something that I can do for myself. I can rely on my breathing. And now knowing after Ken teaching me really how to do it properly, it's just invaluable. It really is, and empowering in a way. Now, when I feel like I can't be somewhere, and in fact just not so long ago, I was in a doctor's appointment, not for myself, but I sat there and it was really high up and there was lots of windows around. Of course, I don't like being [00:22:34 inaudible]. And I felt I have to get out. “Nope, I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to do it.” I sat there, I did my breathing. I actually put my earphones in and started listening to Ken's anxiety solutions and listened and took my mind off of it, and I was fine. I didn't leave. And actually, I walked away feeling empowered afterwards. So, it's huge. It's really helpful. Ken: Yeah. You just said a couple of very important things. You made a decision not to flee, so you decided right there, “I'm not going anywhere. So, I'm going to stay here. I'm going to tolerate that discomfort, but I'm going to focus on something else. I'm going to focus on my breathing. I'm going to listen to the Anxiety Solution Series.” And then by doing that, I'm assuming your anxiety either was contained, it stayed the same, or maybe it was reduced. Yeah? Maria: Yeah, it was reduced. It stayed the same. And then it started to reduce. And naturally, by the end, I was like, “I'm fine. Nothing is going to happen.” So, it was great. And the other-- I want to say actually one more thing that really, really helped me. And it was actually a turning point, was that I was in another appointment. The doctor came in and told me I was fine. And it was actually like an appointment where they had called me back medically. So, it was a different scenario. It wasn't me creating something in my head. But anyway, there was a lot of anticipation beforehand and he came in and he said, “You are fine. Go live your life.” And I walked away and I went home. And within maybe about 40 minutes, I said, “Maybe he was lying to me. Maybe he was just trying to make me feel good because he saw how anxious I was.” And at that point I realized, this is never going to stop, never. Unless I fight back, I will never-- I felt robbed of the relief that I should have felt. When he told me that, I wasn't getting that relief and I was never going to have that relief unless I used-- and at that point, I actually got angry. And I remember telling Ken, I was like, “I'm so angry because I felt robbed of the relief.” And at that point, I think I then kicked up my practicing of everything tenfold. And that was a turning point for me. Ken: Yeah. That anger really helped you. And anxiety is a very, very powerful emotion, but if you can access or manufacture a different emotion, a competing emotion, and anger is just one of them, you can often mitigate the anxiety. You can push through it. And for you, it was an invaluable resource, because it was natural. You actually felt angry. For other people, they have to manufacture it and get really tough with their anxiety. But for you, you at that moment naturally felt it. And you're right. You said it is never going to stop. And physical sensations, the body is noisy. People will have the rest of their life. You're going to have a noisy body. So, that will never stop. It's your reaction and your response to those physical sensations that is key. And you learn how to respond in a much more healthy way to whenever you got any sort of trigger external or internal. TREATMENT FOR HEALTH ANXIETY/HYPOCHONDRIA Kimberley: It's really accepting that you don't have control over anxiety. So, taking control where you have it, which is over your reactions. And I agree, I've had many clients who needed to hit rock bottom for a certain amount of time and see it play out and see that the compulsions didn't work to be like, “All right, I have to do something different. This is never going to end.” And I think that that insight too can be a real motivator for treatment of like, “I can't get the relief. It doesn't end up lasting and I deserve that like everybody else.” So, Ken, how do you see as a clinician the differences in recovery and treatment for different people? Do you feel like it's the same for everybody, or do you see that there are some differences depending on the person? Ken: Well, when I treat people with health anxiety, although the content of their specific fears might be different – some might worry more about their heart, some might worry more about shaking that they experience and worry about ALS – the treatment is basically the same, which is why I can treat them in classes or groups because it's basically the same. There are some variations. Some people are more worried about things, where other people feel more physical sensations. And I may have to tailor that a bit. So, some people have to-- their problems are more the physical sensations that they feel and they can't tolerate those physical sensations. And other people it's more mental. They're just constantly worried about things. But in general, they can be treated very similarly. It's learning how to tolerate both the uncertainty and the discomfort and the stress that they feel. Kimberley: Right. And I'll add, I think the only thing that I notice as a difference is some people have a lot of insight about their disorder and some don't. Some are really able to identify like, “Ah, this is totally Linda, my anxiety,” or whatever you want to name your anxiety. “This is my anxiety doing this.” Whereas some people I've experienced as a clinician, every single time it is cancer in their mind and they have a really hard time believing anything else. Like you said, they feel it to be true. Do you agree with that? Ken: Completely. Yeah. Some people will come to me and they know it's probably anxiety, but they're not sure. And some people, they are thoroughly convinced that they have that disease or that disorder. And even after months and months and months of-- and oftentimes the content changes. So, I have patients who, when I first start seeing them, they might be afraid of cancer. And then two months later, it's their heart. And then a couple of months later after that, it's something else. There's always something that can come up and they're always believing it's something medical. And of course, they go back to, “Well, what if this time it is? What if this time it is cancer?” And that's where they get caught in the trap. So, for them, it's answering that question. For Maria, it's the word “mostly” that she became fixated on to get lured in and take the bait. It's like, what happens to a fish that takes the bait? Now they're struggling. So, now once you take the bait, you're struggling. Kimberley: Right. And I would say, I mean, I'll personally explain. A lot of my listeners know this, but I'll share it with you guys. I have a lesion on the back of my brain that I know is there. And I have an MRI every six months. And I have a lot of clients who have a medical illness and they have health anxiety, and it's really managing, following the doctor's protocol, but not doing anything above and beyond that because it's so easy to be like, “Well, maybe I'll just schedule it a little earlier because it is there and I really should be keeping an eye on it.” And that has been an interesting process for me with the medical illness to tweak the treatment there as well. Ken: Yes, absolutely. I have a patient right now and she has a legitimate heart issue that is not dangerous. They've had many, many tests, but all of a sudden, her heart will just start racing really fast, just out of the blue. And it happens randomly and seems like stress exacerbates the frequency of it. But it's not just irritating for her, it was scary because every time she would experience it, she thought, “Maybe this is it. I'm having a heart attack.” But she really had to learn to tolerate that discomfort, that it was going to happen sometimes and that was okay. It happens and you just have to learn to live with it. Kimberley: Right. So, Maria, this is the question I'm most excited about asking you. Tell me now what a doctor's appointment looks like for you. Maria: It looks a lot better. You can actually pick up the phone and book an appointment now without avoiding it. I practice everything that I've learned. I'm not going to lie. The anticipation, maybe a couple of days before, is still there. However, it's really not as bad as it was before. I mean, before, I would be a complete mess before I even walked into the doctor's office. Now, I can walk in and I'm doing my breathing and I'm not asking multiple questions. I'm now okay with trusting what the doctor has to say. Whereas before, if I didn't like what he had to say or he didn't say exactly the way I wanted to hear it, I'd go to another doctor. But now, I'm okay with it. And it's still something I don't necessarily want to do. But leaps and bounds better. Leaps and bounds really. I can go in by myself, have a doctor's appointment, ask the regular questions and say, “Give me the answers,” and leave and be okay with it. GETTING TEST RESULTS WITH HEALTH ANXIETY Kimberley: How do you tolerate the times between the test and the test results? How do you work through that? Because sometimes it can take a week. You know what I mean? Sometimes it's a long time. Maria: Yeah. I mean, I haven't-- so, obviously, it's yearly. So, I'm at that point next year where I will have to go and have all my tests again and get the results and anticipate. But I think for me, the biggest thing is distraction and trying not to focus too much beforehand and staying calm and relaxed. And that's really it. I mean, there's always going to be anxiety there for me, I think, going to the doctors. It's not ever going to go away. I'm okay with that. But it's learning how to keep it at a point where I can understand what they're telling me and not make it into something completely different. Ken: I think you said the keywords – where you're putting your focus. So, before, your focus was on answering those what-if questions and the catastrophic possible results. And now I think your focus is on just living your life, just going about living your life and not worrying or thinking about what the catastrophic possibilities could be. Is that accurate? Would you say it's accurate? Maria: Yeah. Because if you start going down that road of what-if, you're already entering that zone, which it is just, you're never going to get the answer that you want. And it's hard because sometimes I would sit and say to myself, “I'm going to logically think this out.” And I would pretend. I mean, I even mentioned to Ken, “No, no, I'm logically thinking this out. This is what anyone would do. I'm sat there and I'm working out in my head.” And he said, “You've already engaged. You've already engaged with the anxiety.” “Have I?” And he said, “Yeah. By working it out in your head, you're engaging with the anxiety.” And that was a breakthrough as well because I thought to myself after, “I am.” I'm already wrapped up in my head logically thinking that I'm not engaging, but I'm completely engaging. So, that was an interesting turning point as well, I think. Kimberley: Amazing. You've come a long, long, long way. I'm so happy to hear that. Ken, before we wrap up, is there anything that you feel people need to know or some major points that you want to give or one key thing that they should know if they have health anxiety? Ken: Oh my gosh, there are so many. There is a tendency for people with all types of anxiety to really focus their attention on the catastrophic possibilities instead of the odds of those catastrophic possibilities happening. The odds are incredibly low. And so, if you're focusing on the fact that it's probably not likely that this is going to happen, then you'll probably go through your life and be okay if you can focus your attention on living your life. But if you focus on those catastrophic possibilities that are possible, they are, then you're going to go through life feeling very, very anxious. And if you focus on trying to prevent death, prevent suffering, then you're not really living your life. Kimberley: That's it right there. That's the phrase of the episode, I think, because I think that's the most important key part. I cannot thank you both enough for coming on. Ken: This is fun. This is great. Maria: It was fun. Kimberley: Maria, your story is so inspiring and you're so eloquent in how you shared it. I teared up twice during this episode just because I know that feeling and I just love that you've done that work. So, thank you so much for sharing. Ken: Yeah. She's really proof that someone who's suffered for 15, 20, some odd years with anxiety can get better. They just have to be really determined and really apply the strategies and be consistent. She did a great job. Kimberley: Yeah. Massive respect for you, Maria. Maria: Oh, thank you. Kimberley: Amazing. Ken, before we finish up, do you have any-- you want to share with us where people can hear from you or get access to your good stuff? Ken: Yeah. So, quietmindsolutions.com, I have a whole bunch of information on health anxiety. I have two webinars in health anxiety on that website, as well as other webinars in other specialties I have. Also, I have the Anxiety Solution Series, which is a 12-hour audio program, which focuses on all types of anxiety, including health anxiety, as well as others. And you can listen to a few chapters for free just to see if you would like it, if you could relate to it. And there's other programs, other articles, and videos that I produced. I have a coloring self-help book, which is basically a self-help for people with anxiety, but every chapter has a coloring illustration where you color. And the coloring illustration actually-- what's the word I'm looking for? It's basically a representation of what you learn in that chapter. It strengthens what you learn in that chapter. Kimberley: Cool. Ken: Yeah. And then a book called The Emetophobia Manual, which is a book for people who have fear of vomiting. Kimberley: Amazing. And we'll have all those links in the show notes for people as well. So, go to the show notes if you're interested in getting those links. Ken: Ken Goodman Therapy is the other website. It has similar information. Maria: I wanted to mention as well that I actually watched one of Ken's webinars quite by accident in the beginning before I realized I had health anxiety. And after watching it, I thought, “Oh my gosh, I've got that.” And so, it was hugely, hugely helpful because I think that having this for so many years and not realizing, there's a lot of people that still don't realize that they suffer from health anxiety. For me, as soon as I could label it as something, it was a relief because now I could find the tools and the help to work on it and get that relief. Kimberley: Amazing. Okay. Well, my heart is so full. Thank you both for coming on. It's really a pleasure to hear this story. So inspiring. So, thank you. Ken: Yeah. Thank you for doing this, Kimberley. Maria: Thank you. Ken: And thanks, Maria. ----- Thank you so much for listening. Before we finish up, we're going to do the review of the week. This is from kdeemo, and they said: “This podcast is a gift. I just found this podcast and I'm binging on the episodes. I learn something through each episode, and love her practical advice and tools. I feel like part of a community-what a gift!” Oh, I'm so, so grateful to have you kdeemo in our community. This is a beautiful, beautiful space. My hope is that it's different to every other podcast you listen to in that we give you a little bit of tools, a little bit of tips, but a huge degree of love and support and compassion and encouragement. So, thank you so much for your review. I love getting your reviews. It helps me to really double down in my mission here to give as many practical free tools as I can. It is true, it is a gift to be able to do that. So, if you could please leave a review, I would be so, so grateful. You can click wherever you're listening and leave a review there. Have a wonderful day.

A whole bunch of new MINI stuff happening, and we've got the latest right here under the White Roof! Click over to with us to play the home game. Start with , move on to see how . Finish up with some Countryman news about , along with a new . Plus, Todd has a scoop on door handles for us, letting us know MINI handles will be flush, like BMWs, very soon! You heard it here first! Are you looking for #mtts2022 badges and decals? You know Todd as you covered! Click over to MotoringStripes () to get the goods! Looking for the next Mod for your MINI, plus anything else you need? Detroit Tuned () has you covered! In case you missed it, Black Roof Radio is now something you can get 100% free of charge! Just click over to to find it. I don't have a feed for it yet, but am working on that. For those that want to us keep us listener supported, you can do that there. Totally not necessary! Links for the players Pricing Updates - https://www.motoringfile.com/2022/02/24/mini-usa-2023-pricing-equipment-updates/ Ukraine - https://www.motoringfile.com/2022/03/03/russias-invasion-of-ukraine-disrupts-bmw-and-mini-production/ JCW F60 Hybrid Power/range - https://www.motoringfile.com/2022/03/04/an-all-new-jcw-countryman-hybrid-is-coming-with-more-power-usable-range/ JCW F60 shifter - https://www.motoringfile.com/2022/03/01/2024-mini-countryman-to-feature-radically-new-shifter-center-console/ Black Roof Radio - http://www.blackroofradio.com

On this week's Totally Tudes! DOLLS VIII - Shirley Temple. The largest merchandising product of the time, in 1935. Not only was she created as a doll, Shirley also collected dolls. The Shirley Temple doll by Ideal was a phenomenon in the 1030's and would go on to be one of the most successful celebrity dolls. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ket tells Kim about the new release… FRESH, starring Daisy Edgar-Jones, Jonica T. Gibbs, and Sebastian Stan. Ok, let's just cut to the chase: Kim is Noa and Ketryn is Mollie. Horrible, terrible Chad makes a very unwelcome reappearance and is the catalyst for NoodleGate. Ketryn really struggles to keep it in her pants over Sebastian Stan. In honor of Women's History Month, this movie is just an instructional manual for best friends to keep each other from being murdered by a date… and how to avoid Chads. Most importantly, we'll learn if Kim will live or die in Fresh.Dir. Mimi CaveWriter Lauryn KahnKKSAM LIVE SHOW!It's free, It's virtual, It's Saturday March 266pm PT/9pm ETGo to www.kksamlive.com (link will be updated soon)See you there

A new MP3 sermon from Grace to You is now available on SermonAudio with the following details: Title: Totally Transformed (Ephesians 4:17-24) Speaker: Pastor John MacArthur Broadcaster: Grace to You Event: Sunday Service Date: 3/13/2022 Length: 50 min.

He had an album release listening party over the weekend! And of course, things went totally sideways after a family member did this...Moe will tell you all about it!  See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Become a member at https://plus.acast.com/s/the-bert-show.

The far more censored version of the award-winning and unparalleled "A Mediocre Time with Tom and Dan." - "A Corporate Time" is a daily companion and terrestrial radio show heard nationally on iHeartRadio. It's silly.

PLUS: Colleen reads your personality based on your car color AND CSI: In a pickle

Check here each week to keep up with the latest from John MacArthur's pulpit at Grace Community Church. Click the icon below to listen.

"Will someone just tell me what to do, please? Tell me which way to go. Tell me what my future will be!" Sound familiar? Or maybe you've felt this before in your own journey? Totally normal, btw. This reaction is all too common when people are deep in a search for answers about their personal journey, especially when they feel lost or directionless, or in the face of big changes. In some of this searching, we may seek out the advice of others to point us in the "right" direction, anyone from loved ones to gifted healers, intuitives, and/or psychics. All well and good, as long as you use the information for context and understanding of the infinite possibilities based on choice versus seeing and attaching to that insight as the absolute truth and only outcome. Just because a psychic says something will happen to your or turn out a certain way doesn't mean that it always will or that you have to see that as your destiny written in stone. Shannon and Meo talk about the tendency we have as humans to give away our power and autonomy to others in our search for reassurance or insight on a clear way forward for ourselves, and why giving our power away isn't the healthiest thing for us as we make choices and chart our way forward. They discuss how to become fully aware of your motivations for seeking insight and how use the information in responsible way in your evolution for your best and highest good. They also discuss the importance of listening deeply to your own intuitive and learning to trust it imperatively to help guide you into your next steps. All for your unfolding and expansion! Resources: Eastern Body, Western Mind by Anodea Judith; Becoming Your Best Self by Sara Wiseman; The Universe Has Your Back by Gabby Bernstein --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/soulsandstardust/support

Podcast book club is cancelled for today, but don't worry I wanted to get a little bit deep with my audience today and just talk about what I've been going through during this month of March and what I think is wrong, but accepting that other life decisions have to be made either way because either way life is not promised. My great uncle Wilson passed March 5th, 2022 which was hard not only because we love him and it was TOTALLY unexpected because we knew he was diagnosed with diabetes, but he wasn't doing what he was supposed to. March 17th, 2021 his mother (my great grandma) passed away ate the age of 92 of natural causes. She was our world and the fact that uncle Wilson passed just a week earlier is sad. Not to mention, uncle Wilson's father (my great grandfather) is also not doing to well. He's 95! What a life he has lived and as he continues to fight each and every day; I wanted to talk about the people that meant the most to me. The great thing is all three of them brung something different to the table so it makes it that much harder for me to think about them being gone. My great grandfather could go at any minute now so, this is certainly March Madness for our family. Please stay tuned for next weeks episode when I continue "I Tried To Change So You Don't Have To: True Life Lessons" by Loni Love IG: @IdalisWeems Twitter: @Idalis_Logan --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/idalisasksandanswers/message

This week marks the two-year anniversary of the Pandemic. We'll do a little reflecting and a little ranting and a little drinking. It's been a long two years. The history of the popular Western Mass term The Tofu Curtain with the Word Nerd. A TOTALLY nepotistic interview about a pretty dang cool interpretation of the Phantom of The Opera. Congressman McGovern on the omnibus bill and the continuing situation in Ukraine and more.

Have your kids been fighting even more lately? Maybe been more grumpy? We find that around this time of year, our kids get a little cabin fever and seem to get a bit crazier than normal. So we like to do a No Screen Challenge. Seems counter-intuitive, right? But it works! In this episode we're diving in to our No Screen Challenge and how you can participate. You can do it as little or as long as you like and you can choose no screens or just some screens. Totally up to you! We're starting the challenge Monday March 14 and ending April 1. We would love for you to join us in whatever way feels right for your family! Join our newsletter for updates and resources on the No Screen Challenge: https://parentingirlpodcast.com/ You can find giveaways on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/parentingirlpodcast/

Intro: Should we take offense that it's Women's History month? (history has not exactly honored women.) Gina had a rough re-entry from vacation, the Disney enchantment, the expense of having kids, the pleasures of one on one time, Junipero Serra was also a monster, Whitey Bulger, networking. Let Me Run This By You: Is Drag Race sexist?, Sasha Velour,  Interview: We talk to Rebecca Spence about Hendrix College, Phantom of the Opera with Linda Eder, Ricky Schroeder and Silver Spoons, Erin Gray, taking the Christmas pageant quite seriously, Syler Thomas, being the preacher's daughter, playing Adelaide in Guys and Dolls and the Stage Manager in Our Town, Tisch, Zelda Fichandler, Mary Beth Fisher, Carmen Roman, Deanna Dunagan, Ora Jones, Amy Morton, Steppenwolf, Goodman Theatre, Every Brilliant Thing, Cyrano at Milwaukee Rep, beauty privilege, aging as an actress, Linda Evangelista, how Rebecca sees herself in terms of the cultural shift in American theatre, the accessibility benefit of digital theatre.FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):2 (10s):And I'm Gina Pulice. We went to theater school1 (12s):Together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand.2 (15s):And it's 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.1 (22s):And you will too. Are we famous yet? February one, one month behind my friend one month by,2 (37s):Well, it's March 1st happy women's history month.1 (41s):I didn't even know that's how bad of a woman I am.2 (45s):Oh, well I was just thinking like, should we take offense that it's, you know, black history and women's history, like it's all in the past, you know, like why with both of those groups of people, we don't really want to be in the past.1 (1m 2s):Oh. And in fact there is a t-shirt that says that people love that. I have the same thought that says the future. Wait, the future of film is female. And I'm like, what about the present of film?2 (1m 17s):Right, right. Write1 (1m 19s):About like, I don't have a lot of time. I'm 46. Like what are you talking about the future? I mean, I can't be talking about the future. So I, I think the more we can get things in the present, the better off we are,2 (1m 33s):The better off we are now you're back. I'm back. I'm back. I'm back. I'm back. I did not want to come back. I did not leave my vacation. I did not wanna leave 80 degree weather and no responsibilities and fun all day. And it was our, a free entry1 (1m 53s):Monday, really? For everybody, just2 (1m 55s):You or well, for everybody. But for my part, it was getting in on a very late plane, not getting home till one 30 in the morning. It's two inches of ice on my driveway. So I'm like doing slapstick, trying to get my luggage to my door. My daughter's asleep. Oh my, I took the wrong key. I didn't have the right. I didn't have my house key. I don't know what the key is that I took. And so luckily, I mean, I guess I, nobody knows my address, but luckily we have a door that we often leave unlocked and it was unlocked.2 (2m 45s):So we got in and I got my daughter upstairs and I said, just go to sleep. I'll take care of everything. And she was like, yeah, of course, of course. I'm like, I'm not taking care of anything right now. So I remembered that we had some snow melt. I smelled, I go get it. And of course, when I walked into this door, that's usually unlocked. I immediately locked it saying like, we really shouldn't be leaving this open all the time. Oh my God. I know what's coming. I think, keep going, keep going though. And then I get my little ice smell and I go to the back and I closed the door because it's 20 degrees. And I don't want to let all the more mare out. And I happily salt my steps and get the luggage and bring it back up.2 (3m 30s):And the door was locked because the door was locked and I still don't have a key. And that my daughter is fast asleep. And not only is she slowly, I've already turned on the white noise machine. So if I ring the doorbell, if I had any chance of her hearing me, which it's pretty scant. And in any case, because she's a heavy sleeper, I've now masked the sound and it's cold, it's cold. And you, I immediately would be like, I have to eat this ice melt. That's not sane. That did not occur to me. Here's what occurred to me. I'm wearing leggings a t-shirt and a thin sweatshirt because I was just in 80 degree weather and sneakers.2 (4m 12s):I have no hat. I have no code. I have no gloves. I don't even have a key to the car. That's in the driveway because it's my husband's car. And why would I have a key to that? And we do have a garage code that has been broken for like a year. So I guess I should fix that for next time. I'm in this situation. Yeah. And I just tried ringing the doorbell and I tried yelling her name, you know, from down to like I'm in Romeo and Juliet, just yelling up to her window to the family in Utah. They weren't back. Oh my God.2 (4m 55s):I'm like, what the hell am I going to do? Walk to my neighbors at two in the morning and, and do what use, oh, and I didn't mind my phone was inside of, oh my God. Even if I had my phone, what am I going to do? Call my daughter. She doesn't have a cellphone. So I was in a real quandary. I was, I was in a pickle. So here's what I'd come to. I'm going to throw a heavy Boulder through our glass door so that I could get in. And then I'm going to tape it up with cardboard because I must get inside of my house. And then I remembered that another security breach we have is that our window in our dining room that goes directly onto our porch is never locked and very easy to climb through.2 (5m 43s):So that's what I did. And I didn't get to sleep until 3:00 AM. And that's just, that was just like, that was just, of course that was my reentry. Like there could have been no other reentry because ending your vacation sucks, sucks,1 (5m 60s):Bad. It2 (6m 0s):Really sucks. The greatest period of time is like the two weeks before your vacation, when you're getting psyched and then your vacation. And then for me, about two days before it's over, I'm like, oh God, I have to go.1 (6m 12s):I, I, I mean, you know, we're, I am really bad at transitions. Like I remember as an actor being told that to like, and I remember thinking that, and I remember thinking that's perfect. Like that, that makes perfect sense. I'm not shocked. And it makes perfect sense. I, there were no transitions in my childhood. It was like, you're being thrown here and then you're being thrown it. And so this all makes sense. And also it to be fair, your vacation did look fucking brilliant.2 (6m 43s):Like my vacation was like a1 (6m 46s):Dream.2 (6m 47s):It was like a dream come true. Honestly, like I kept being like, why is this so amazing? And I, I do. I do think, I, I think I understand now why Disney has the stranglehold on everybody's wallets that it does. It's because for many people, it is a place where your childhood is openly defended and encouraged and people don't get that. You know, and most people don't get that in other realms of their life. And you know, there's a lot of adult, only groups of people at Disney.2 (7m 28s):Like I even read a review of our hotel that was complaining about the number of children there. It's a, it's a, it's a, it's called the all star movies. It's like the it's 101 Dalmatian themed and toy story and Fantasia. And I'm thinking, wow, this couple went here thinking, oh,1 (7m 50s):People visionary tear like they without no, no, no. There are. Yeah, no, you're right on eighties. I think you've really, really hit the nail on the head. When you said that it's people's childhood encouraged, like, are you kidding me? Like senior pictures. I was like, oh, I'm going there. And I don't care if I go alone. Like, I don't give a fuck. You're going to see me alone. Wandering through Disneyland. Happy as a fucking clam.2 (8m 19s):Do you like rollercoasters? No. Oh, you don't like roller coasters. I was going to say, well, let's go together because I didn't get to ride one single roller coaster.1 (8m 25s):I will go with you. I would go if I trusted the person, I'm always just like, because I'm so neurotic. I'm like, do I want to die with this person? If I'm with some weird, like, you know, whatever. No I would go with you.2 (8m 40s):Well, let me tell you that. I don't know when the last time you went to like a six flags was, but the difference between your run of the mill amusement park and Disney is like the difference between coach on spirit, airline and first class Emirates. Yeah, exactly. It's just, they really, they really curate the experience for you. And I'm so fascinated by all of the work that has gone into just that, like all of the work that has gone into, and we, we had a classmate at the theater school who worked at Disney before she went to theater school and I'm drawing a blank on her name, blonde blonde hair.2 (9m 23s):And she told us about some of the rules. They have rules about how long your fingernails could be. And they had rules about your earrings and they had rules. I think some of those rules have changed because I'm pretty sure you didn't used to be able to show tattoos. I think you couldn't have dreadlocks before. Like it was a whole thing. It was a whole thing. So, so they've put a lot of effort into preserving the magic, right? Like you can't, there's this underground tunnel system. So you don't see the characters in there. Cause my daughter kept saying, oh, it was so sweet. She said, there's this hotel that's right near the park. And she said, why didn't we stay at that hotel? And I said, because it's like $3,000 a night. And she said, oh, I bet that's where the princess is live.2 (10m 7s):And I said, yeah, maybe. And I, and it was, as you recall, we went through this whole Santa's Easter bunny thing and she's she's hip to that. So I didn't challenge her assumption, but a couple of days later she did. And she said, well, they're not really princesses. They're really people who put on princess dresses. So they probably don't live here. I said, yeah, they probably don't. She said, where do I live? And I said, in an apartment, and I just saw the look on her face, like imagining, you know, Ariel living in her studio in like Florida. Right. And I live in Orlando having gone to theater school and then like, what am I doing? But you know what she's doing? She's fucking making dreams come fucking true is what she's done is like, honestly, it's the Lauren's work.2 (10m 53s):I felt like because they have these opportunities for you to meet the princesses, you know? And these people know their characters so well to the point that I can never hear Cinderella, she talks so quietly. I can never hear what she's saying. The, the girl, the woman who plays Rapunzel, that character talked a million miles an hour, she talks a million miles an hour. They read and they just know the ins and outs of their movies, such that they're constantly referencing. Like when, when we met Jasmine, she said, have you seen my monkey?2 (11m 35s):A pu I mean, and Clarissa was like, no, is she around here? Like, we'll, we'll go look for him. They really draw you in to the world. Do they are master storytellers? That's what they are Disney is. And these people, their whole,1 (11m 54s):I know people that go on Disney cruises that are like, I would live on this boat if I could.2 (12m 2s):Yeah, man. It's so enticing. It, it really is. And I, and I found myself being like, okay, this is like a museum product. It's a vacation. Like, but I think it made it harder to leave Mo a lot of times I have to say, especially since having kids, no offense to my kids. A lot of times when I come back from vacations, I'm like so relieved for it to be over because I've had to do so much work. I mean, traveling with one kid, who's pretty, self-sufficient was very easy to put a whole new spin on a family vacation.1 (12m 38s):It's my new thing, which is one-on-one time. So what I noticed in your pictures and social media was that when it's one-on-one time and I just had my niece here, right? Yes. I want to hear all about that. One-on-one time is so much different than family time. And I never had one-on-one time with either of my parents. Not that I really wanted it, but like, it was always trying to force groups or other families with our family. And I think one-on-one time people don't like to do because it's so intimate. And I, and I get that. But I also think when I saw your pictures, what I noticed was a genuine happiness and a knot in your face and your daughter's face, but also like a fun, it looked like fun.1 (13m 27s):And a lot of times when you see family fucking pictures, everyone looks miserable, miserable, miserable, miserable, miserable, and it's no one's fault, but that is the jam. It is miserable to be in a group.2 (13m 37s):It is miserable. And actually, as we were walking around, she kept saying, why is that? Dad's screaming at his kid? Like there was a moment where somebody was, I didn't observe it, but there was a baby crying. And how she reported it to me was that this mother told the baby to stop crying. And I said, well, you know, we're not having that experience because you're not a baby. And because we're not all together, but we've had a lot of experiences like that. You know, I'm glad that you don't necessarily think, look at that and say, oh, that's just like our family. But that is just like our family when we're all together,1 (14m 17s):It's a dynamic. So this is my whole, my whole like new way of seeing things. Not new way. But like w what helps me get through situation is like, oh, this is a dynamic problem. It is, it is a energetic, interpersonal problem. It's not one, one person's fault. But like, I now will never, I said to my niece, like, I only want to do one on one time with, with each of you. Great2 (14m 45s):Idea. Great idea. So how did that whole thing1 (14m 47s):Come to be? So I really wanted to, so each I have taken my nephew and my niece, the oldest one on solo trips, right. To two different places. But the youngest has never been, and then the pandemic hit. And so I was like, wait a second. This isn't fair. Not that life is fair, but I like to keep things kind of like, I don't want her being like, what the hell? I'm the youngest? Cause I was the youngest. I get it. So I was like, all right, I want a lease to come out here. But by herself, without my sister, without the kids, without George, like, no, no, no, no, no. Also our place is so small. Only one person could fit in it. Right. So a small person.1 (15m 28s):And so I said to my sister for her 13th birthday, which was Sunday, I want to fly Elise out. And so that's what I did. And she, she had president's day, right? So she, she missed one day of school because me and Mr. Davis school to do something with my sister and at least came and we had a blast one-on-one man, I'm all about trying to help the dynamic, not be unmanageable for myself and for others, but I'm really thinking about myself. Like2 (15m 60s):Probably so appreciated the attention she got. Right. Because I'm sure there's not much opportunity for her to get individual attention.1 (16m 8s):It's not practical. It just doesn't happen. There's so much going on. And you know, and, and so we had a blast. Now look, one thing that I was telling my therapist yesterday, I was like, oh, this is what I realized about children. They're fucking a lot of energy, even one brilliant child, right. That is, is just being a child. That's turning 13, no problems. Still, a lot of energy goes out cause she's, you know, and they're fucking expensive. So I don't care. I mean, I don't, I know nothing about, I know 100th of what the costs would be, but I'm like, oh my God.1 (16m 48s):And we weren't even doing crazy shit. We were so like, for people to say like, oh, a family of four or five can live on 50,000, $50,000. I'm like, are you, I spent like $50,000 in three days that I don't have, what are you talking about?2 (17m 3s):This is why, I mean, I have avoided saying miss in the past, but this is why we make so much money and have nothing. I mean, we have our house, we have a house, we own a house and we own cars. Yeah. But we have nothing else. We have nothing else. We have no savings. We have nothing else because 100% of our money goes to this very expensive thing we've chosen to do, which is1 (17m 28s):Yeah. And, and I have so much, I'm like, oh my God. Just even light. Yeah. Just life. Just not even buying. I mean, we didn't go crazy. We didn't go to Beverly Hills. We're not like living. Okay. So we went to, she got in really late Friday night and we went to, then we slept in a little bit. And then we went to the beach, went to my favorite beach, which is a unibrow beach who I found out was a terrible ruler that killed a lot of indigenous people, which is sad. But anyway, yeah. Paradise, Sarah that bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, man. I thought he was a Franciscan monk. I don't know my okay. I don't know.1 (18m 9s):Anyway. So it was like, oh, you know, he killed a bunch of indigenous people. I'm like, oh, that's great. Anyway. So we went to that beach in long beach, my favorite beach. Cause it's super chill. It's not a scene. It's not like Malibu. It's not like it's like down home. I love long beach. Right. And I also have an affinity to long beach because my ex lived there who passed away. So I like long beach, a lot. I have like special memories of that. And so we did that. We went, we ate like I now, because we moved to the pandemic. I had no reference for good food in my, in my neighborhood, in Pasadena, in LA none. So I was like, all right, we're gonna use this as an opportunity to explore dude, look, it has no, it doesn't hold a candle to Chicago.1 (18m 55s):Cause that's just how, you know, Chicago. I always tell people like Chicago is the best food and you'll die of a heart attack, but like, you'll eat the best food. We found great restaurants that we ate at. We, so we did a lot of eating. We did a lot of walking, walking around. We did some walks, some hikes. She obsessed with my dog Doris. And she was really, really good with her. Like trained her. Like she's really, she and her brother are both really into training dogs. So she did a lot of training with Torres, which I kept up zero. And then I just, I just don't care. And then I just don't, that's the truth. And we just really spent time together talking about life and about, you know, her, her life as a 13 year old and teenage stuff.1 (19m 42s):And, but it was, it was only, it was like she got in Friday night, she was here Saturday, all day, Sunday, all day, Monday, all day. She left Tuesday afternoon. I was so exhausted. I was like, I don't know. I have. So again, I have so much respect for her parents and people who are engaged with their kids. That's what I'll say. Like people who actually are trying to fucking be engaged. It's it's insane. I don't know how anyone has time to do anything else. Let me run this by, You know, I go into my little phases with the content I'm consuming and right now I'm really deep into con reconsider.1 (20m 31s):This is an old love that I kind of got away from drag race. Oh, right. Yeah. And I never had this thought before and I'm not, I don't have a judgment about it really either way. It's truly just a curiosity.2 (20m 47s):Curious to know what your thoughts are. Did you ever watch1 (20m 49s):That show? So I watched it a long time ago when it first came out. Did they remounted like, is there's different incarnations?2 (20m 57s):Yeah. They're on like season 13 or something like that. Yeah.1 (21m 0s):I watched it at the beginning when I also got into project runway and I got into America's next top model and all that stuff. Yeah. I, I, it wasn't my thing. It just didn't, it didn't compel me. Like I wanted it to love it and I, it's not, what is it about me? It is that, or the show. It's not my type of reality show in that. I just don't care enough. It's you know, about fat, like the fashion, the fashion. I, I'm more interested in the psychological component and at least at the beginning, it wasn't a huge part of the show.2 (21m 45s):Yeah. Well, for me it is the clue. Remember on star search when they used to have acting that acting component and it was so boring to watch, you know, because it's just not the same as singing and dancing. Right. Even I, as a little kid was like, this is boring. I didn't want to watch the acting part of star search. So we don't have an acting reality competition show. Drag race is the closest thing we have to because drag is theater, you know, it's creating character it's it's and, and there, the art has elevated to such a degree that the people who are really killing it are doing things that you would not imagine are drag and they're not wearing breastplates and they're not, they're just there.2 (22m 37s):And it's part of this whole concept of gender fluidity, which I'm really interested in. But my, my question is, is it inherently sexist that these men are doing female impersonations, right? Because, and a big part of it is the humor. And I just had this mode of being like, wait, is the fundamental conceit here that we're laughing at men being women, because why would you be a woman when you can be a man? I just, yeah, it may not be. And, and many, many drag artists may be feminists may consider themselves feminist.2 (23m 22s):I think RuPaul is not necessarily a feminist and he's not, he's not necessarily anti-racist. I mean, I think he's problematic in his own way, but it just occurred to me like, what am I laughing at this idea about just being a woman? Are we, are we trivializing? And we're making it frivolous.1 (23m 43s):It's so interesting. Like, I mean, think that it goes, what comes to mind is also like, how do the artists identify? Like, do they identify as, as, as non, you know, non-conforming or, or, or, or how, how did they feel?2 (23m 60s):Right. That's been an interesting evolution in the show actually from the first season. I think they they've had, they had at least one person who through the course of doing, it said, actually, I'm not, I don't really want to do drag. I want to be a woman. I am a woman. There's, there's been that. And I haven't really followed it closely, but there has been some controversy about like, well, if you have a woman, a trans woman on the show, then is it still drag? Right. So there's all these questions. I don't really know where that debate sits at the present moment, but I do know that very many people who consider themselves drag artists don't consider themselves men in any way.1 (24m 43s):So it's like, right. I, so that, that then leads me to be super curious about yes, like can cat it become one. It reminded me of Shakespeare when she experienced time pretending to be women. And it was always, you know, women weren't allowed to be actors or whatever, and they, and they also like, you know, they would make fun in a higher sort of, even a intellectual way. They were making fun of the, the weaker sex, whatever. So, yes, I think there's a part of it that we're just laughing at the horror show that is being a woman. And then the other thing that I was thinking about was I think you're onto something when, if we can transform it from being about that, to being about elevating art too.1 (25m 29s):Like when you said things that you wouldn't that piques my interest, wouldn't consider quote, drag. That is like, where I think we're headed in theater, right?2 (25m 38s):Like, oh yes, we must be. I mean, if we are to survive, we must be headed in that way.1 (25m 44s):Can you give me an example of like what, what you wouldn't consider drag that is like,2 (25m 50s):I got there's this drag artists named Sasha Valore and sh I'm right now, I'm on season. I forget if it's eight or nine, it might be nine. And she Sasha the lore does L well, first of all, and I think he identifies as a man. He does his art is political and intellectual. And he's one of these people who doesn't wear fake breasts. He does, he, what he does is he covers his nipples with pastries and, and, but builds the most beautiful garments around a look around an idea blend.2 (26m 31s):And, and it's rough. What I love is when it's referencing so many different things, when he explains his outfit later, he's like, well, this is a reference to Marlena Dietrich. And this is, this is a reference to, you know, the, how the gay culture in Russia exists because it's, you know, it's illegal to dress in drag there and, and homosexuality is not outright illegal, but it's, you know, obviously not a way that you want to go around presenting yourself. It's just this elevated conversation. I mean, the first time I ever saw actual drag was in Las Vegas at a show, I was a teenager and I couldn't believe I'd never seen it before.2 (27m 15s):I couldn't believe how much this man looked like a woman. And that's what the drag was. It was all about pretty much straight forward, like glamor looking as feminine as possible. And it has just come a long way since then. And now it's about, it's really just about embodying characters.1 (27m 34s):So yeah, you love storytelling. So this is what I'm getting at from the Disney thing. And from this is that you love detailed nuance, researched and referenced storytelling. Totally. That is your jam. So2 (27m 51s):It was my mind when, when all of these disparate things can come together into one cohesive piece of art. That's what I like in plays. That's what I like in books. That's what I like him.1 (28m 1s):So that's really interesting to know. Like, I think also like, yeah, for me, what I like is yes, super detailed, specific thought out things like I remember my favorite thing as a kid was pop-up books that had teeny little hidden parts that you wouldn't expect to have a tab that have it. That was my fucking jam. I was like, that is what I like about television is when there's callbacks or references or little Easter eggs, or like where you're like, oh my God, oh my God. Oh my God. Did you notice that the, you know, like I get into that because it means ultimately that people fucking care what they're doing.1 (28m 45s):Yeah,2 (28m 46s):Yeah, yeah. Oh, yes. That's what really gets you. That people care Today on the podcast we are talking to Rebecca, Rebecca is an actor. And if you live in Chicago and see theater, there's a very good chance that you've seen her on more than one occasion in more than one brilliant star Trek. She also does film and television. She's got actually a television series, 61st street. She's in Candyman, that's out in theaters right now.2 (29m 26s):She was in one of my favorite shows, easy, which featured a lot of great Chicago actors. We didn't really talk about any of that. We talked about her as dying love for Chicago theater and her absolute respect for the actors that make it happen. So please enjoy our with Rebecca Spence3 (29m 52s):Podcast or a voiceover.2 (29m 55s):What's the matter with you? Why don't you get with it podcast or be a professional podcast? It's so easy. Honestly, you just break right into the market. You get tons of downloads. And3 (30m 9s):This is what I hear. It's amazing that I haven't jumped on this bandwagon yet. I don't know.2 (30m 14s):I will say the number, the apex of active podcasts or podcasts that were downloadable in the pandemic was 2 million up from 750,000 before the pandemic.3 (30m 29s):I absolutely2 (30m 30s):Believe it's trending back down because I think people realize like it's kind of a lot of work to maintain something every week. So, you know, we're just hoping to get back into that sweet spot. Maybe even less people will do it and we'll get down to like half a million. So then we'll really have a chance. Anyway, congratulations, Rebecca Spence, you survived theater school. Wait, wait. You're, you're looking, you're looking like you don't agree with me.3 (30m 59s):I, I I'd like to reframe it a little bit. I, I survived a theater major. I did not survive the grad school audition process. I Did not into the theater school.2 (31m 18s):We've often said we should call it. We should really call this. I survived my desire to be famous, whether you became famous or not, you know, like you have to contend with your, with your desire for us,1 (31m 29s):Never went to grad school for you went to undergrad and you got a theater major, and then you, and then you went to you, you auditioned for grad schools and didn't get it. What, how could Rebecca Spence that fucking get into grad school? Are you kidding me?3 (31m 43s):No. What I was doing, I didn't have a clue what I was doing. So I, but I can say that my audition process for grad school is what brought me to Chicago and, and made me fall in love with Chicago. And ultimately helps me choose Chicago as a home base, which is where I've had my education. I, my entire education in theater has been through observing and watching people very, very, very good at what they do. And2 (32m 15s):Just observing or asking people. I mean, you said you didn't know what you were doing when you were auditioning, but3 (32m 21s):Yeah, I went to my, I had, I don't know anything to compare it to. I think I had a great theater experience in, at my tiny little school. We had a three professor department and they were wonderful. I, I looked at some conservatories for undergrad and I just wasn't entirely sure if that was what I wanted to do. Cause I didn't know anything about professional theater, not a thing I grew up in, in, in Texas. I had, I think I saw maybe one professional production.3 (33m 2s):I had a friend whose parents were into musicals and they gifted me with an evening to go see Phantom of the opera with Linda ETR of all people. So I'm like, if you're going to get an experience seeing it, that was great. But I knew I wasn't a musical person. I didn't have that kind of gift. And I didn't know what, like I never had seen regional theater. I had never gone to1 (33m 29s):Like a play3 (33m 30s):Play. No, I think my parents took me to a community college production of glass, menagerie,1 (33m 39s):Light fodder for a child have to say like, what is coming forward for me when you're talking about, you're not the first person to say like a musical with the first introduction to any kind of acting and they get a bad rap, sometimes musicals, but they're a gateway for so many kiddos. It's like magic. I'm like obsessed with musicals now.3 (34m 7s):Yeah. I I'm the youngest of three girls by a large margin. My sisters are nine and 11 years older than I am. And so they would put on plays and then stick me in them. So I was kind of dressed up a lot and they'd be like, go say this. And I would do that. And I've got1 (34m 27s):Actors now. What's that? Are3 (34m 29s):They actors now? Okay. No, not at all. No. We just had very active imaginations. And so I, but I loved it. I, I always wanted to be, I had a very active imagination and, and wanted to, I knew I wanted to act like I, I want it to be on silver spoons. Oh,1 (34m 50s):Well, here we are facing. I always, I always thought that the line was here. We are faced to face a Comella silver spoons. Somehow someone informed me that Kamala, wasn't a real word. You guys. And so I was like, wait, what do you, they were like, what did you just say? They're like, say it again. And they were like, you know, that's not the line, but anyway, you want it to be in silver. Did you want to be on like, Ricky's like sister or anything? Like you just wanted to be in that world?3 (35m 26s):Oh no. I had a whole, I had a whole plot line. Oh yeah, no. I was also going to be adopted into the family. Oh yeah. They were, I, I was also going to be adopted into the family, but then of course we were going to become love interest. Of course it's very twisted. I was, I was quite convinced. I, you know, Aaron Gray was going to be my mother. Oh. I also loved buck Rogers. So it was a big club look, Roger. So I kind of followed Erin gray. I thought she was quite possibly the most glamorous woman I'd ever seen. And that's not true.3 (36m 6s):Doris Day was, but I wanted to be parented by1 (36m 13s):Yes. I mean, that's like me and like my modern day telling Brian Cox, I wanted him to be my new father. Right. And that didn't, he was like, people have told me that before. It was actually, it's a real thing. So like, okay, so you, you want it to be that. And then how did that translate Rebecca into like actually studying it? Because like, how did you know? It was a thing3 (36m 37s):I started doing a lot of plays in church. I did a lot of church. Like I was married about 12 times. It feels like, and I remember taking, I remember my like little, my first like actual play. I remember, I think I had been four and I was married and I took it really seriously. And the little boy who was playing Joseph, who also happened to be named Joey was not taking it seriously. And he kept taking his little robe and throwing it over his head. And I remember being livid, absolutely livid. I just was, I was so disappointed because I really felt like I was giving off as many, like holy maternal vibes as I possibly could.3 (37m 26s):And he, he wasn't up to the task.1 (37m 28s):Did you find it, did he get fired or like, did he get recast recast?3 (37m 33s):I I, no. No, no. I mean, my memory is being up in front of the, I don't remember any group kind of rehearsal process. I just remember being up there and holding my little baby doll and feeling very pious Over. And Joey was like screwing with a shepherd.1 (37m 54s):That's fantastic. I am Joey, by the way, I would be the Joey. I'd be like doing dance moves and they'd be like this one, but here's the thing3 (38m 3s):Laughing. And that's why it was because people were laughing and they, you know, he was drawing attention and laughing. And I was like, I don't remember this being a comedy. This is a comment1 (38m 19s):Here's, what's interesting about that story for me is that you w I've never worked with you as an actor, but I know from being around you and seeing you work, that you are not enough, and this is not, well, I'll just say it like, you are like a consummate per actor. Like you, you take this shit seriously, which I adore, which I actually learned from people like that. But like, you are very kind and lovely, but you also are a fucking professional actor. And there is like, I know that sounds so obvious, but you know what I mean? Like there are people like Joey that fuck around at age four, which is fine. He's four. But like the fact that you didn't fuck around as Mary at age four, I think is actually an important thing in your, in your history because you take this shit seriously.1 (39m 7s):Also. You're like you work all the time, which is fantastic, which I don't think there's a coincidence there. That's all I'm saying. That's all. Yeah.3 (39m 19s):Thank you. I mean, I knew I wanted to do, I played a lot alone. I mean, I was alone all the time. So I was constantly like perfecting different personalities. I mean, because I moved as much as I did, we moved every two and a half to three years. I had like an opportunity to like, be put into different scenarios. And that was just like a playground for me to, to, well, first of all, it was survival. It was trying to figure out where am I? How do I fit in? How do I make friends? What what's like that group of people doing and how do I sort of evolve and adapt. So that they'll speak to me.1 (39m 57s):Did you move because of your family? Were you a military situation?3 (40m 2s):God's military? My, my father was an Episcopal priest, tiny segue. I listened to your podcasts and I'm the one that, that I just delighted and was listening to Siler. Thomas. I knew Siler Thomas from church camp. I had no idea Seiler Thomas. Wasn't cool. We, I grew up sort of adjacent to, to him. He's older than I am. So he was in a much like cooler hipper, older church crap. And, but we went to like all of the same, like regional functional things.3 (40m 47s):Cause my father was an Episcopal priest. And so he was very active in youth stuff. And so I went with him. That's how I know Seiler camp counselor. And I was a camper and I had no clue that he was a theater person. No, I can't2 (41m 5s):Wait to tell him. I can't wait to tell him3 (41m 7s):We reconnected sort of over Facebook, but I haven't seen him, but I listened to his entire podcast and I, I, I got really, I got really excited.2 (41m 15s):Yeah. Yeah. He's, he's fantastic. What I would have done if I had to move every couple of years is I would have pretended that I was British. When I came to a new school. Did you ever adopt new, like a really different3 (41m 31s):Personality? No, I couldn't. We were always sort of presented, like we were kind of presented as a family so that wouldn't have ever worked out for me. I did have a friend though in the sixth grade, my friend, Susan. And it was the first time we in, I was in Waco, Texas, and we went to all the sixth graders, went to one school for me, entire city were busted into a sixth grade center and we would rotate classes and she, and I would come up with like each class that we were in. We would have completely different personalities. We would like today where the really loud Rawkus girls and today were very shy and reserved, but today where the pranksters.3 (42m 17s):And1 (42m 18s):So you did go to theater school cause that's all we did. So there2 (42m 23s):Starting at four years old, you started your year to school3 (42m 25s):Training.2 (42m 28s):Yeah. So when you finally, when it was time for college, you were considering conservatories, but decided not to. How did you pick the school that you went to Hendrix?3 (42m 41s):I picked Hendricks because they had a theater program and my parents said that I had to be within a day's drive. And so they said, we can, you can go to school, but we have to be able to be able to drive to you within 12 hours, if anything happens. So I went 10 and a half hours away to two Hendricks college in Arkansas and had a pretty campus. And I, I knew, I, I knew I wanted to do theater. I had started doing more professional place, not professional, but, but really high quality plays in high school.3 (43m 21s):And I knew that I wanted to keep doing that. I really loved it. I just sort of disappeared into that. And that was, that was a safe way to build quick family, you know, do you found your people really fast? And I, I, that, that felt good to me. So I really enjoyed it. And2 (43m 41s):Were they known for having a great theater department?3 (43m 45s):No, but they built, so I did my freshman year, we moved in the middle of my eighth grade year and I had one freshman year in a, in a really small, small town in Southeast Texas or S yeah, it was near the coast and that didn't, that didn't go so well for me. And I ended up being sent to boarding school.1 (44m 13s):What did you do? Were you depressed?3 (44m 15s):Very poor choices and trying to, in trying to, to fit in, what is it,1 (44m 21s):Does that mean? What does that mean? Did you smoke cigarettes or like kill people? What happened like3 (44m 27s):In the middle? No, I, I had some substance stuff happened. I found the substances are pretty early in like, like an eighth grade. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no. I mean, we, we lived in the town that I lived in was known for grass farming and rodeo, and we didn't have anything to do. There was no, there was no movie theater. We didn't have a Walmart. We didn't have a skating rink there. It was,1 (44m 57s):It's like Footloose the toast.3 (44m 60s):So what we did is we went out to fields and drank like, that's true. That was what you did. So I, I, I wanted to do that. So I drank a lot and then I got caught a lot. And so my parents had a panic and sent me to boarding school in Austin, which they had a, really a growing theater department. And by the time I graduated, they had built this huge complex. So my senior year was the first year they sort of became an art school. So I kind of said goodbye. I mean, our first production was like, I remember they flew in some flats from Las Vegas.3 (45m 42s):I want to say we did guys and dolls, but we had like actual professional flats. And it was like my senior year. I was like, oh my God1 (45m 51s):Star, were you the star Rebecca? I was3 (45m 53s):Adelaide Adelaide. And then I got to be the stage manager in our town. So that was, but of course I, I didn't know what that meant. I wanted to be Emily,1 (46m 5s):Emily, of course. And then there were3 (46m 7s):Like stage manager and I was like, what? I'm stage managing the play? Like, I clearly hadn't read the whole play. I just read what I was like. I didn't know that that meant I had more to do. And it ended up being like a really, really meaningful, beautiful experience.2 (46m 24s):And just getting back to like the making. Cause I, I really love talking about making bad decisions. Would you say that you kind of did the, there is a trope of a preacher's daughter getting in to trouble? Is that what happened to you? Yeah, it was a rebellion against,3 (46m 43s):I mean, I, I just, you know, is there either the really, really good girl or the really, really bad girl and I, I, I didn't want to be the really, really,1 (46m 56s):Really hard position to be like, I can't imagine, like, even if your parents are like the nicest people there, again, there's a status thing that happens when there's someone in the community is touted as a certain thing. Like it's like royalty a little bit in America. Like we don't have, you know, so it's like you it's like, and then you're expected to behave a certain way. And as much as I had, like, I would say very little care and guidance in some ways I also didn't have a lot of pressure to be a certain way because we were all just like, there was no title. Like my parents didn't do anything. So it's, it's a tricky situation. But what I'm, what I'm also noticing is that the, the poor decision making and the drinking and they're getting caught actually was, it led to some really good fucking theater like that.1 (47m 46s):You went to Austin and you got to do like really good acting work. So it worked. I mean, you know, it wasn't a, it wasn't an all a bad thing. So you were like, yes,3 (47m 58s):I have learned more from my, my failures than I have ever learned from my successes. And I've had a lot of failures. I've had a lot of,1 (48m 8s):You know, something that I can speak to from being in like an insider in Chicago or formerly, and now in California, but being at a Chicago actor is like, everybody, I want to talk about the pressure in Chicago. So you are one of those people in Chicago that everyone's like, oh, Rebecca Spence books, everything. And I know it's not, I listen. I'm not saying it's true. This is what I'm saying. Let's get to the heart of the thing that I want to ask, which is from being on the I'm now on the outside looking in. Right. So what is it like? Cause that's always something that I heard and it has actually very little to do with you with other people's shit.1 (48m 48s):Right? It's not, I'm not saying you are doing anything, but what I'm asking as a woman and a performer, what is it like? And it's easy for me to do now because I'm in LA. So I don't give a, you know, like it's like, what does it feel like to have that kind of pressure of people, first of all, are you aware of it? That people are like Rebecca spins, books, everything. And then how does that affect you? And do you want to tell them to go fuck off? Or are you like, I work really hard.3 (49m 14s):Well, this, if this I'll take it two steps back, because this is a Testament to how much I, I love and admire Chicago theater. My understanding, I, I didn't get into theater school because I sabotage my auditions because I didn't know what kind of an actor I wanted to be. I actually, I choked. I freaked out because I thought that if you wanted to be an actor that meant that you wanted to be famous. And, and so I went to NYU, I came to Chicago to audition for theater school that I did the errata and auditioned for NYU Tisch.3 (49m 56s):And then I crashed the Harvard art. I didn't know you could crash. And somebody said you did. So I just got in line and I crashed the Harvard auditions. I made it to the final rounds of, of Tish. And I flew to New York and had a solid panic attack. I just, I didn't know anything about New York. I had, I came from tiny town in Texas. I had never been to Chicago. I had never been to New York. I didn't have a smartphone. I didn't know how to get around. I, I met Zelda. I met, you know, I did all the stuff. I was like, I can't afford this. I don't, I don't know what this is. I don't know what I'm doing. And I, I P I straight up chokes and, and really sabotage my own audition.3 (50m 40s):But I liked Chicago and my husband got a job here and we moved here and then somebody said, you know, I needed to find a job. I didn't even know. They were like, what about the Goodman theater? And I, I was like, I don't even know what that is. And I didn't know what, like actual regional theater was. And I ended up getting a job in development at, at the Goodman theater, because I was too scared to act. Cause I thought I don't actually know what I'm doing. I didn't know how to do like prepare a monologue very well. I had done that my senior year in college. Like we prepared one monologue. I didn't know like how to go through that whole process. But I started working at the Goodman. I started watching, I saw Chicago actors come on stage.3 (51m 24s):And it was people like Mary Beth Fisher, people like Carmen, Roman people like Deanna Dunnigan. Like people, people like Ora Jones. Like that was when I started hearing when they were like, oh, oh, oh my God. Or Jones is going to be on say, oh my God, Amy Morton. I'm like, who wait, who are these people who wait, who are these people? And like, people that I started hanging out like the theater crowd, when they started speaking about these people and their work ethic, I was like, that's what I want. I want to be a well-respected name in a medium sized town.3 (52m 5s):That's that to me is how I know I've made it. If people are like, oh, oh, we want to go see that show because I guarantee you, you're going to see someone who has put in the time, put in the effort, they're going to bring nuance. They're going to bring, you know, a craft to it. That was my goal. That's. And so when I hear that, there's part of me, that's like, I still don't know what I'm doing, but the little ego part in the back of my brain is like, it's what we've always wanted.1 (52m 38s):Yeah, no.3 (52m 39s):I wanted to be a respected actor in a town that who, whose work? I respect so much. I fucking love Chicago actors. And I love Chicago theater. I don't think there's any better theater in the country. I think that, that the work ethic and the quality of people that go in and do the work and bring, bring their hearts and their souls to it. That's all I've ever wanted to be a part of. So when you say, when you're like, oh, she works all the time. I'm like, I, I, I don't, I mean, I do work, but there's part of me. It's like, oh my God, maybe we're doing it. Maybe1 (53m 17s):I can tell you right now, Rebecca Spence, that you are doing the thing. Because when I saw you in, what was it? Every brilliant thing is that the, It was, it was beautiful. And when I saw it, I was like, oh yeah, this is why she, she books. She works all the time. It's all relative. Right. But that thing of she works all the time. But like, this is why it actually is because you're good at what you do. And you're also, like you said, you actually really care about the thing we were talking about. Caring, like Disney really cares how they take care of their parks. Like, that's a, that's a segue, but like, that's the, the point is that you, you, the care that you put into your, your art is very desirable, right?1 (54m 5s):Like people want to work with that. And I think in Chicago, there is this sense of, we're just sometimes we're just there to make it to the next place. But what it sounds like for you is like, this is your place3 (54m 18s):I'm here. Like this is, I have no desire to move to New York. I have no desire to move. I'm doing exactly what I always like. I'm doing more than I ever thought I ever hoped that I could do.2 (54m 33s):Like, wow.1 (54m 34s):I mean,3 (54m 35s):I ever thought that I hook could hope to do so. I am. I'm always really grateful because I,2 (54m 46s):Yeah, honestly, I, I really think that more people could stand to do that, to have as their goal. You know what, one of the things that has come out of this glut of information put out us all the time is this concept of like exceptionalism and that you only really hear reflected or, or echoed or amplified stories of people who are exceptional. People who make millions of dollars or people who, whatever graduate Harvard when they're 10 years old. And it, one of the casualties of it is that I think people who are forming their identities don't necessarily get enough examples of people who are achieving anything in the middle, you know, any kind of other success.2 (55m 36s):And, and we know how much these extreme successes lead to like tragedy. In a lot of cases, we'd be doing ourselves a favor. If we could put more stories of like, I aimed for this thing, that is not the, you know, the outer limit, but is, you know, difficult to do, but was obtainable for me. I think that would be,1 (55m 57s):I think it's so good. And I think that the, the also the, the irony or whatever it is is that now you, you, in terms of, in terms of film and television, you do book that work too, but it's not because your it's like you, that was your goal. And, and all this theater stuff is just sort of there it's like that work comes because of the, what you have done build the platform. And I think Gina, what you're speaking about is nobody's building the fucking platform on which to stand. So it's like all of a sudden, they're just catapulted on this platform at the top of the sky, and there's nowhere to go, but fall. Right. So you've done the work to build the platform, Rebecca.1 (56m 40s):And I think that that's, that's rare that doesn't happen. And I think that's fricking amazing because you have something to stand on. You're not like floating in LA like on a pedestal about,3 (56m 53s):I wouldn't do well in LA. I don't think I, I don't think I would do well there. I could maybe hang out in New York, but I don't think LA would, I liked LA. I went out there for just a brief moment just to see what it felt like. And people are like, oh, you're going to love it, or you're going to hate it. And I didn't feel either way. I, I liked it. I mean, I, I, wasn't responsible for living there and getting rent, paying rent. I was staying in a friend's pool house. And so I had a place to live for a month and I had one audition. So I hiked, it did a lot of hiking, which was great. And I found little pockets there, but I've thought, I don't think I could live in a town that is just constantly cycling around one industry.3 (57m 41s):And that was kind of how I've always operated. I didn't want to go to a conservatory because I was like, there's way more to me than just acting like, I, I love, I, I like, I love what I do it's but it's not the only thing that drives me. Like I like theater and acting is, is the thing that I love most, most of all, but I really there, I love Chicago, so there's so much more to do than just2 (58m 10s):So true. So I keep thinking about a little Rebecca and little Joey, we've heard a lot of stories about people who, when they were in college, feeling resentful about P other people who they felt like didn't take it seriously enough people, you know, like a common thing is a person who had to work really hard to get a full ride because they couldn't have afforded it to go to college otherwise. And then to be there with people who are partying instead of, you know, spending a hundred percent of their time dedicated to what they're doing. Does that come up for you now working on something now, do you encounter people who you feel maybe aren't fully appreciating the opportunity they're being given or, or at this level now, are you mostly with people who take it very seriously to,3 (59m 3s):Yeah, I haven't had that. And I mean, most of the people that I work with are really just so excited to be in the room. I mean, I, I, I th I can think of one instance when I was doing non-equity theater in a basement somewhere for, for, I was the only female in the entire, in the entire production, like cast, crew, everything. It was, it was me. And it was a bunch of guys that were kind of jerking around a little bit and it affected, it was like a really serious play.3 (59m 45s):And I remember one of them pulled up a pretty, I don't want to say dangerous, dangerous is too extreme of a term, but it was a play. It was days of wine and roses, which was, and you know, where I have to, the character ends up drink in some, but they, they changed the bottle and put actual alcohol in it onstage, and didn't tell me. And so I chugged and had like a thing of alcohol and I was like, and nobody would fess up to it. Like nobody who did, who did it? Y'all who did that? Just like tell me, and no one would, would, would fess up to it.3 (1h 0m 26s):And then I was like, this sucks. Yeah. That's actually, that's the only time I can think of when I was like, I'm, I'm putting my heart and soul into it for the most part. No, I've never, I thought, what about upset or like, is everyone you're working with really like, to joke around too. I mean, I, yeah, what I do on stage, I take very silly, but I love to play. I'm a prankster. I liked to, I I'm very silly. I like to be silly. I, I love people that are having a fantastic time. And when I know that it's not like messing up somebody else's process I'll jump right in.3 (1h 1m 7s):Cause I, I like it. So I haven't had any, what's a, what's a favorite project. Gosh, there've been, there've been a lot. I did a production of a three person Cyrano up at Milwaukee rep and it was the first time I'd ever left Chicago. And we did a three person version of, of Cyrano where we did made all of the sound effects ourselves.3 (1h 1m 49s):And so we switched characters and jumped and I had never done anything like that of like sort of it wasn't devised, but it, it, it was much more deconstructed than anything that I had ever been a part of. And it was, and we toured it. We toured it all around Wisconsin and into Minnesota and I'd, I'd never done it. I'd never done summer stock. I had never done anything like that. And we were this little Merry band of three, plus our manager in a, in a van driving all over making, you know, I was, we would do the sword fights and I would, I would use the foils and make all the sound effects and sheets.3 (1h 2m 30s):And I just thought that was, it was, it was a great time. I love it.1 (1h 2m 34s):Why did you love it? Like what, what you just love doing the like, cause it was the first time you did it or like what was the feeling that you were like, this is fucking awesome. Wow.3 (1h 2m 44s):Creative thing. And we surprise so many people because we made like the set was made out of ladders and like we would make the set and I love surprising the audience cause they would come in, they'd be like, what the, what is this? Like, are you like, oh God, we're gonna watch people like create out of boxes. See it, like, you're going to take me on one of these like craft paper theater projects and what am I getting myself into? And with just like a little thing of twinkle lights and we, and I was working with these two phenomenal actors, Reese, Madigan, and Ted Daisy, who work at Milwaukee rep all the time out and, and Oregon Shakespeare.3 (1h 3m 25s):And they do a lot of Oregon Shakespeare work. And we just played, we played in, played in, played in plate. It was, it was playing. And yet then we would have these like gut punch moments and it, I had just never done anything like that. I had always been put in sort of very traditional roles and nobody usually allowed me to step outside of those boxes. And I, I did it and had such, such a good time doing it.1 (1h 3m 53s):That leads me to my question about beauty. Okay. So I'm obsessed with this idea of beauty as, as a, as it relates to how people that are, are how we relate to our own beauty or feeling lack thereof or so, you know, you, I would say for me, you like a stunning, stunning woman. And, and I would like to know what is your relationship like? I mean, it's a very, it's a very intense question, but I am obsessed with it. What is your relationship like to your own idea of your beauty? Because people, because what you said, really trait triggered something in me of like people usually put me in these traditional roles, which to me means like beautiful wife, a beautiful mother, a girlfriend, a blah.1 (1h 4m 46s):And as you age, like talk all about that because people will say like Rebecca Spence is gorgeous and I agree and I want to know what is it like? And I guess it's sort of hard if you're the fish in the water, but like tell me, what's your relationship like to the way your own looks?3 (1h 5m 2s):Sure. You know, I, I, I fully acknowledged that I've had duty privilege. Like I've fully acknowledged that that has been a part of my progress. And you know, it has been something that has put me in roles. Like I was never the ingenue ever. I was never the Juliet. I was always the lady capital. I was always, cause I had always had a lower register and I always looked mature. I had a very classic features. And so I was always like lady Croom, lady Capulets.3 (1h 5m 43s):I was always like the bitter aunt. And it's kind of, I was Jean Brody, you know, like I got to, to have these sort of larger power play or things, which I always wanted. I wanted to play more powerful than I wanted to play pretty because I knew that I was always viewed as such. And you know, it's, I know that I've been allowed into a lot of rooms because of how I look. I think maybe that's why my drive is so strong because I want to back it up.3 (1h 6m 24s):Like I don't, it's very important to me that I bring work ethic and integrity and talent to, to, to that so that as I age and as I grow and as this goes away or transforms and evolves that I'm leaning more on, on, on the thing behind it. And, and aging as, as someone who is it's real, like it's, it's a real ego check when you were always called in for the beautiful wife and now you're starting to be called in for, you know, other roles.3 (1h 7m 11s):And, and this isn't a it's I know how it sounds like I always like know and feel1 (1h 7m 18s):No, no, no, no. Here's the thing. You're the one, you're the first person that we've talked to that we've said like, Hey, like I remember we interviewed someone and Gina brought this up to someone and was like, you're very beautiful. Like, what's it like to, and the person could not acknowledge that they, because they were, I think, I don't know what was going on. I assume they were afraid to sound vain, but here's the thing. It doesn't sound any kind of way. What sounds, what it sounds is like, you're trying to make sense of the way the world sees you, which actually isn't about you either. It's like, and yet acknowledge the privilege.1 (1h 8m 0s):So you're the first woman that we've talked to that has said, yeah, like I acknowledged like this got me into rooms, but I want to back it up instead of pretending that it doesn't exist. Right. Because,3 (1h 8m 12s):Because for anybody to lie, I, you know, I remember being, I remember being in a room and I was like, I was like, you're beautiful. And she was like, oh, I just am fat. And I'm like, come on. You know, I was like, come on, don't do it. Like it doesn't, it's, it's, it's so insulting to people that, that, that, that, like, let's be the thing I've tried to do is truly be objective about my work and, and who I like to. So you have to be objective about, like, I know what I look like. I know what I bring in, so what else do I add to it?3 (1h 8m 52s):And I it's something that I will never forget because, and after that, I know when we were very young, who is doing really, really well right now, and she is, you know, a self identified fat actress and like that, that is how she works in the world. And it's, she's, she's just phenomenal. But she was the daughter of a, of a beauty queen. Like her mother was a beautiful, beautiful woman. And she was like having to grow up with, you know, under, under someone that was beautiful. She's like I had to watch watching her age was one of the most painful things I could have ever witnessed because she was so used to being the most beautiful woman in the world, in the room.3 (1h 9m 42s):Like that was her identity was she didn't have to do too much else because she was the most beautiful woman in the room. And when she aged and those things started to fade it, she had sort of lost her identity. And that, that conversation has stuck with me for forever. I was like, don't ever be the person that, that your exterior is the only thing you have.2 (1h 10m 4s):Yeah. Well, I mean, I think it's awesome. I think it's fantastic that you acknowledge your beauty privilege, but I also acknowledge that there is a prison aspect to it too, or certainly when one is young, you know, where you can only be considered, you know, for a certain type of role, it can be just as limiting. And then if you go to that,3 (1h 10m 28s):Because of it, I mean, I I've been told, I lost I've lost roles where something is really, really, really excited about. And they were like, you're too, you are too classically attractive to be relatable. And I was like,2 (1h 10m 45s):Yeah,3 (1h 10m 46s):Being relatable is my jam. Right, right. What I worked so hard to do, I wouldn't be relatable. And I'm, you won't allow me out of that. And then of course, you know, I've got to sit back and I'm like, look, people have to face this kind of feedback on a completely dip. So, you know, I was like, then I mean that it sucked. And I, and I grieved that. I was like, but, but this is this industry that, and other people face that in tote for D for a myriad of different other reasons, they are told based off of how they look that they aren't right for the role. And I, I always knew that, but I was like, God, that sucks.1 (1h 11m 26s):And I'm thinking of like, yeah. And, and,3 (1h 11m 31s):And know it. And you don't want to tell anybody about it because no one, no one's going to be like, oh, that's horrible.1 (1h 11m 37s):Right. Right. I mean, it's this thing of you don't of course you don't want to, but I'm also just aware of like, like, I was obsessed with this whole story of Linda Evangelista who got face surgery, and then she finally showed her face and she looks fucking fine to me. Like, it's not about that. It's not about her face. It was about, it was no, no. I mean, literally it she's. I read the whole thing too. She, she calls herself deformed. She has like some fat that comes up over her bra3 (1h 12m 13s):Solidified. It's hard. Like, oh, that's true. Yeah. It's painful and hard. And,1 (1h 12m 20s):But the thing is like the, it is for me, what, what it brought forward was like from the outside, right outside, looking at Linda Evangelista, she's still one of the most beautiful people I've ever seen with her without her deformity. But it doesn't matter because she is not her identity was this model. Right. Which probably screwed her for life and also offered her privileges beyond my wildest dreams. Both are true. So I guess what it brings forward is like, everything about this journey is a combo fucking platter. You kinda have the privilege of beauty without also being in a prison.1 (1h 13m 1s):You cannot have the privilege of, you know, like for me, I kind of have the compassion that I have for humans. If I had not gone through what I had gone through as a child, especially an overweight child, like gum, it comes together. And I think we're so used to seeing people as, oh, that's Rebecca Spence. This is what she does. And this is how her life, it's not that way. And I think that's one of my life goals is to just show people through my writing and my work. Like this is a fucking combo platter. People like you don't get one way, like Linda Evangelista said, she feels like the most ugly person. And she acknowledged that she was a model and made millions of dollars doing it.1 (1h 13m 42s):So like, it's both, you're both, you're both things I give you permission. I give everyone permission to have both the prison and the privilege. I know it's not my job to do, but that's what I would wish on the world if I was running shit, which I'm not. So there we go. But anyway, that's my rant about you. I just really am focused on like asking women, especially like, what is it like, you know, especially as we get older to like change and it's a real3 (1h 14m 10s):Ego knock, I'm, you know, I'm not going to lie. I, I filmed something recently and I, my son went on, said, took a picture of the monitor and gave it to me. I was like, you know, I was like, oh shit. Okay.

Were Joseph's brothers just the absolute worst for selling him into slavery?    Totally.  But things actually could have been a lot worse if it wasn't for one of his big brothers standing up against the rest of them.    Listen in to find out who the semi-hero of the day is!   Get our 365-day Old Testament daily devotional book: https://amzn.to/3nYC821   Get your free copy of the simplified Old Testament outline here: https://kristenwalkersmith.com/oldtestamentsimplified/   And grab Cali's scripture study guide here: https://comefollowmestudy.com/shop/ Discount code: OMSS

The secret to success comes from not a single event but from small incremental improvement over a period of time – this is what I call the 1% rule. In this episode, I share a personal anecdote on how I went from a starving college student taking on a brand-new sales role, with no prior experience, to climbing the ranks and becoming the top salesman in the entire company.      Timestamps:  [00:09] The 1% rule  [01:20] Success is not a single event  [02:30] Small incremental improvements   [04:11] Head coach of the British cycling team  [06:52] Accolades    [07:41] Focus on constant improvement  [08:18] The Atomic Habits  [10:17] The secret to success  [10:58] One single event will not lead to success  [11:33] Subscribe, Rate & Review ---------------------------------- If you enjoyed this episode, please RATE / REVIEW and SUBSCRIBE to ensure you never miss an episode. Connect w/ Dennis & Learn More! Connect with me on LinkedIn Learn to Become A Freight Broker/Agent in 30 Days or Less! Watch Freight Broker Training Videos FREE Recently Ranked "Top 30 Freight Podcast"

Empat kebebasan: - Waktu - Finansial - Time for yourself - Time for your family

As John shares in John 12:42&43; the focus was for them on validation from mammon and not that from God. Totally setting aside His sovereignty. Be stronger and braver. Like Daniel, Hannania, Misiel and Anzariah. Bold in the truth.

Spoiler alert: Totally. Bees and other insects can learn, and thus be trained, using scents. Learn how they could sniff out everything from bombs to cancer in this episode of BrainStuff, based on this article: https://animals.howstuffworks.com/insects/bees-can-be-trained.htm Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

Mike DeHaan is an electrical engineer-turned-real estate investor in Spokane, Washington. He began his business in early 2018 with the goal: Everyone begins with to have passive income and fell in love with the process of improving the neighborhoods in his hometown. Since he began, he had been a part of over 60 transactions either through flipping, renting, or assigning the contract. He didn't come from a Real Estate family. The growth and development of his business have come entirely from self-education through podcasts, books, mentors, and a ton of trial and error. His goal is simple, he wants to be a driving force in the growth and reparation of the Inland Northwest. When he first moved to Spokane in 2009, there was more run-down neighborhoods than thriving ones. Over the past decade that's changed, but there's still a lot left to do. In this episode, Mike will share with us his extensive experience in real estate investing, and how he became an engineer to a full-time real estate investor.   Episode Links: https://inwproperties.com/ https://music.amazon.de/podcasts/ef9a0c7d-eb7f-4725-b7b0-72387434d143/collecting-keys---real-estate-investing-podcast? https://collectingkeyspodcast.com/ https://www.instagram.com/mike_invests/ https://mikeinvests.com/ --- Transcript Before we jump into the episode, here's a quick disclaimer about our content. The Remote Real Estate Investor podcast is for informational purposes only, and is not intended as investment advice. The views, opinions and strategies of both the hosts and the guests are their own and should not be considered as guidance from Roofstock. Make sure to always run your own numbers, make your own independent decisions and seek investment advice from licensed professionals.   Michael: What's going on everyone? Welcome to another episode of the Remote Real Estate Investor. I'm Michael Albaum and today I'm joined by Mike DeHaan, who's got a really interesting wholesaling business and he's gonna tell us how he got there and what it is he's doing today. So let's get into it!   Mike, what's going on man, welcome to the show. Thanks so much for taking time to hang out with me, I appreciate it.   Mike: Yeah, absolutely thanks, Michael. Glad you have me on.   Michael: Oh man, my pleasure. We're gonna have a lot of fun today. I know a little bit about your story, your background, but I would love if you could just jump right into it and share with our listeners. who you are, where do you come from? And what is it that you're doing real estate today?   Mike: Yeah, absolutely. So I live in Spokane, Washington, so east side of Washington state, it's kind of the forgotten side of the state up here. Everyone always knows about Seattle, but people never really seem to remember Spokane.   Michael: No love for Spokane.   Mike: No no, man. Like get a little bit of love a little bit of hate, you know, once a year during the basketball tournament because the Gonzaga University's here.   Michael: Oh yeah, if you felt like crap talking.   Mike: Yeah, exactly. Everyone always says we're the, the overrated teams. We haven't won a championship yet, but we usually do okay.   Michael: Good deal…   Mike: But, uh, yeah, so right on Idaho border. Um, I grew up out in Montana and then I moved here to start going to school at GU, I moved out here to go to school at Gonzaga, I kind of went the traditional route when got an electoral engineering degree, you know, parents super proud, got a good degree was very hirable. Going through that process, it never really sort of fit my personality, I guess. But I was sort of, of the of the viewpoint that, you know, once I graduate, I'll find a job that I like, and then I'll sort of create my passion from there.   Michael: Well, the fact the fact Mike, that you and I are sitting here having a conversation means that you shouldn't have been an EE to begin with, so…   Mike: Absolutely, yeah. You don't have to have my head define myself a little bit first, I guess. But yeah, right, right. After college, I went and got a pretty good job out in the Seattle area. I'm working at a consulting company for two years. And then I worked at Boeing for a few years. I really, you know, but Boeing was, was kind of a tough one because it's like a dream job for so many people. And I just hated it, like, from the first day I walked in, I was like, oh, no, what have I done? This is absolutely not what I should be I wish I should be doing.   Michael: What did you hate about it?   Mike: Just like the whole corporate bureaucracy, you know, I realized pretty quickly that I'm not cut out to sort of be a number, and just sort of go through the motions of this giant machine and also inefficiencies right. And all the time through my career in jobs. I'd always had this issue where I would get assigned a, a project or whatever and I would figure out the most efficient way to do it as quickly as I could. And it was always just being, you know, before the before the deadline, right? So I had six weeks, I forgot how to do it in like a week. And then I would be like, can I need something else to do and all the other engineers back, no, that's not how it's supposed to work. You're supposed to take the entire six weeks, you know, so I immediately just wasn't cut out for that. And that was a really big problem. And I was at the consulting company two weeks they sell time. Yeah, you know, so I got me slapped pretty hard. Anyway, fast forward. I left Boeing, I moved back to Spokane to work at the utility here for a year. That was my fourth job, including my college internship in a matter of, I guess, what, four and a half years. And at that point, I was like, alright, this this career path is not for me, I need to do something different. So at the end of 2017, I guess being in 2018, I decided enough is enough and I just quit being an engineer. Everyone thought I was silly. My you know, that was probably the hardest conversation ever had to have in my life was calling my parents to tell them that hey, you know, that fancy degree I got I'm not going to do that anymore.   So yeah, it's funny, everyone I was asked like, what my wife and stuff thought and honestly, she was just like, well, if you're not going to be a miserable prick anymore, I guess it's okay for you to…   Michael: Step into the right direction.   Mike: Exactly. Even though we were losing 70% of our income, you know, it was, was worth it to take the risk. Yes, that was yeah, that was early 2018. I spent the next I guess like four or five months, trying to find myself you know, reading a lot of self-health books, business books, my wife and I travel a little bit. We went down to New Zealand for about three and a half weeks and traveled around and just did some soul searching. I, you know, originally wanted to get into tech sort of dabble in that and realize how huge that bear entry was, the actual development side of it, I was able to sort of grasp but you know, living where I'm at, you know, you being in the Bay Area, you can probably sympathize to how important connections are. And we don't necessarily have those here. And that's why people move to places like the barriers to be around people that are doing that.   So anyway, as a side note, I started getting into passive income and generating wealth. And that's what led me to real estate, which is, is brought me to kind of what I'm doing now as a full time real estate investor.   Michael: So I've been I love your story, it's an I think it's one that a lot of people can, can, can relate to, and that they get into this role that they think is going to be awesome and then it just turns out not to be at all what it is they're looking for. And you tried that, you know, like you said four times, and none of it was working out. So how did you get involved with your first deal, with your first real estate investment?   Mike: Yeah, so, you know, I spent the first little bit when I decided I was going to invest in real estate, I guess, backtrack a little bit, I had a local friend section on my business partner who was dabbling in investing. So that kind of planted the seed. And, you know, I spent the first little while just listening to every podcast, every book, you know, everything BiggerPockets pretty much that I could sort of start with, that's kind of where everyone starts, I feel like and, you know, I was like, okay, cool. So actually did basically just go and start offering on properties. But at same time, I was like, a little bit risk averse, I don't want to do a whole lot of work, like, what can I find that would be easy? And so I found actually, right around the corner, from where I live, there was a new development going on where they were building new construction ranchers. And friend of a friend, I was able to connect with the builder and I basically came into an arrangement of, hey, I'll pay, you know, $200,000 for each of these ranches, owned by two of them, and I was getting the money, I basically liquidated my corporate 401k and I was like, that mean, I paid all the fees and everything. It's funny, in hindsight, it was kind of a rash decision but I was how like, deep down, I was kind of like, I need to separate every part of this coast, this corporate past life that I hated.       Michael: So you're drawing a line in the sand…You're burning the boats.   Mike: Exactly. So I paid massive fees to plot this money. But it was a pretty generous amount since I had been out to get South couple of years, pull that out, use that to buy these two properties. And it's funny, like, in hindsight, in hindsight, when I signed the dotted line, they weren't great investments, right because I kind of had the mortgage payment, and I basically went like: Okay, so the mortgage payments gonna be $1,100 a month on really renting for $1,500 a month. You know, I'm gonna, like, cashflow $14 a month, you know, right. But of course, that's not how it works when you account for vacancy, maintenance, all that sort of stuff.   Michael: Oh, you mean there is other expenses… Mortgage payment. Oh…   Mike: Exactly. But I also looked out too, because I kind of signed up for these properties, I signed documents for them, while they're still being built, they were still holes in the ground and then by the time they actually closed, they were worth about 20- $30,000 more each than I paid for them.   Michael: Wow, that went well…   Mike: I accidentally walked into some equity there. And then, as they, they continued to sort of increase in value over the next little bit, I was able to actually cash out refinance some of that money as well. This helped me rebuild that nest egg. So pure, dumb luck, I'm not gonna lie. But I mean, at the same time, dumb luck comes from taking massive action and that's kind of how I got started, so…   Michael: Totally, okay. And so you learn from the, you know, those two deals, and then went on to do some other stuff, tell us about that.   Mike: Yep, exactly. So I learned from those ones. After that I had kind of had my confidence up a little bit. So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna do like a value add sort of deal now, like you hear starting like the proper first strategy, not the I got lucky with the first strategy. So I went and I bought a fixer duplex. Me and my wife, we fix that up ourselves, cash out, good amount of our money, then that was like the end of 2018. Then going into early 2019. I was like, hey, I need more capital, so I started flipping houses. I didn't have a huge amount of experience and money. So I basically was like, hey, find someone that's experienced, that has money and just basically doesn't want to do any work but doesn't mind telling me what to do… Partnered with a couple that was local here and we flipped a few houses together and would split the profits 50/ 50. So got that going use those profits to buy another property, which is a triplex. And then after that, it started to get more and more difficult to find opportunities, both with the partners I was flipping with and for myself, so I decided, hey, I need to start sourcing my own deals. You know, especially I started to connect with wholesalers and like other people that were marking their own deals, and I was like, you know, they're obviously doing something. There's no reason I can't do that. So at the, I guess, January of 2020 I officially started the business of what I'm doing now, which is a full time off market real estate investment business.   Michael: So good.   Mike: And then, yeah, so that was feeding 2020 survive through COVID, that sort of stuff took us a little bit to get going. But as of right now, we've done… total off market about, about 85/ 86 deals since being a 2020. Also sourced off market and I have nine, nine staff that worked for me, so three of them that are local to the US, and then a handful of virtual staff that handles a lot of our more administrative processes in cold calling, all that sort of stuff.   Michael: So that is amazing, Mike. And so you know, of those 80 deals that you've done, are those all deals that you're doing, or you're taking on the ones that you like, and kind of wholesaling, and outsourcing, you know, passing on to the other ones you don't like?   Mike: Yep, so it's kind of a mix of, you know, keeping the properties that we like as rentals, predominantly a lot of the multifamily as we keep. So our total portfolio now is I think, 43 doors. So that's across, like 20 to 22- 23 properties, the rest of them, we've either been wholesaling or we've been flipping, it really just sort of depends on the scale of the work that's involved in the neighborhoods, and also the needs of the business at the time. You know, sometimes there's one that would be great to flip, but it makes more sense to wholesale them and you know, make half as much money. But that's like a 20 day transactional process instead of a three month transactional process.   Michael: Right, so okay and where is your geographical footprint?   Mike: So we have done predominantly in Spokane, and Spokane area, Eastern Washington in northern Idaho. But we also started doing some stuff remotely last year, just for scale. So last year, we did eight deals that were all over in Knoxville, Tennessee, that we did completely virtual, one flip and seven assignments and those ones, we would, we did all the negotiations and closings, virtual, and we would just work with a local runner on the ground over there to go and verify the conditions and grab photos and all that sort of stuff.       Michael: Awesome, and are you do you have I said on any other markets in the near future?   Mike: Yeah. So that we recently brought on a professional sales manager to start helping us optimize our sales process in our teams. And working with our sales guys just to learn how to do the full sales process themselves, because… How we kind of built it cuz we bootstrapped this whole thing is, you know, we kind of hired and built systems as you know, need arose for them, right. So it wasn't a very holistic process. So we kind of have like a lot of like patchwork things in there, you know, for like, how we run us… around appointments, right, or like how we make offers things like that there wasn't a good cohesive process, it was almost lead by lead, which made it extremely time consuming for people for all of our sales guys. So we're working with him to iron those out and then once we have that process more streamlined, I mean, we should be able to drop in any market that we want and do pretty well.   So yeah, we're looking there, we're looking at we have Knoxville, we're looking at the outskirts of Chicago right now. We're looking at a few places in Ohio, we're looking at a few places in Texas. And really, as long as you're able to find the staff, we have the marketing systems out down and once you have the sale system, if we can find a good sales guy should be pretty much copy and paste. So that's kind of what we're hoping to do this year.   Michael: That's so awesome. Mike what I love about your story is that you've done like so much of all of the things like all the real estate investing things, you started very traditionally a single family than multifamily than flipping then burr you know, now you're wholesaling. What have you found to be the most fun?   Mike: Yeah, so I love I mean, engineering is mine, I love building the marketing system and like solving the strategies of some of the more complex, you know, deals that come through, like the ones that the ones that we come in, get a contract signed, we close it our assignment and goes all smooth, those are awesome, like, you can't complain about easy money. But the ones that I find the most fun are like, okay, so we have a deal that's kind of tight, you know, we got to like work with the seller to solve their needs, you know, that means, you know, helping them find a place to go like working with attorney stuff like that. They're really sort of deep dive into some of these complex deals that are, you know, they require like an investigation, I find those to be really fun, and they're more satisfying when they're completed. Even if you do sometimes make less money, it's just like, it's more interesting.   You know, I…we've started doing a lot of stuff like subject twos or we have one that we're signing, we got sent around today actually, it's a Novation agreement. So basically, we're partnering with the owner of the house to flip the property and then we give him like a baseline sale price. Everything above that will collect his profit.     Michael: Oh my gosh, so cool…   Mike: So we've never done one of those before and ultimately, that came around like he's a rational seller, he's willing to work with us, we were off by about $18,000. On our what we could mat ask what we're willing to pay versus what he was asking and we did the math, and we're like, well, that gap is, you know, still less than what our total loan costs would be. So what if instead, we just like met in the middle, gave him some extra money, we were still close to where we needed to be. And we don't have to go get a hard money loan, we can instead as part within the flip the deal.   So working, strategizing, things like that. And, you know, one of the biggest things we found is that if somebody is willing to sell their property, there's almost always a mutually beneficial arrangement, you just have to work with them to solve their needs. You know, I think that's one of the biggest things that people don't understand or they kind of discount with, you know, off market real estate is it's not a real estate company, honestly, it's a marketing business, people business. And if you're willing to listen and get creative with people, and build that trust, and, you know, just like, think outside the box, there's opportunities that can be found everywhere, that are, you know, oftentimes even more lucrative than just like a cash offer, which is what everyone else shows a look for.   Michael: Totally, totally. Wow, that's so cool. That's so cool. Mike, I want to ask you, because you did something and ran into a problem that almost every real estate investor that I've spoken to, either inside the academy or outside of the academy comes up against, and that's, I'm running out of money, or I've now run out of money. And so you mentioned taking on some business partners, we need to start doing some flipping, but what advice, what recommendations would you give to people that are kind of hitting this wall? Where should they be turning?   Mike: Yes, so if you're brand new, it's gonna be a little different than if you're somebody that's trying to scale. So for when I was brand new, I was able to find that money by finding people that, you know, had more money than they had time. And I basically created the time that they needed, right? And I put in the hustle, and I, you know, did what I would do what needed to be done to do the deals and at the end of the day, there was people with the cash that wanted a more passive income opportunity.   Michael: It sounds so mafio, I did what needed to be done, you know… Whatever it took…   Mike: Off market, sometimes it's like that.   Michael: It's great. Mike: But, uh, yeah, so if you're getting started, I think that's kind of the easiest way to go and especially if you show that you have some level of organization and commitment, like I mean, if you show up in your kind of grungy, and you have literally no expansion of nothing about real estate, you're probably not gonna be able to get that. But if you show up, and you're like, hey, I put a lot of thought into this, I think I can pull this off, this is what we're going to do and you come up with a strategy to somebody with money, they'll give you a shot, you know, so even the guys that work for me, now, they all want to get into flipping their own houses, like cool, you're showing that you can work you're showing hustle for me every single day, you bet that when you want to flip this property, I'm going to be happy to partner with you on it, you know, and you're going to go and you're going to make your money, I'm going to make my money and they're going to be able to get off the ground.   If you're more established, where we've started to get cash. I know a lot of people look at like raising money from private investors, and those sort of things like how funds are, are those arrangements. We haven't necessarily look towards that instead but we've honestly relied on like lines of credit that are leveraged on the properties that we've accumulated. And surprisingly difficult to get those when you're trying to scale a business until it's funny until you kind of get your first one and like once you find the first credit union or bank that's willing to give you a line of credit on your, on your property, the other ones seem to be like, oh, well, you know…   Michael: They gave…   Mike: Mainstreet bank or whatever gave it to you like you must be okay and then they sort of build that way. And that is slightly risky, because they contend technically call the debt and things like that. So I wouldn't use that to buy like an entire property. But it does allow you to bridge the gap with like, you know, hard money loan down payments or renovation costs, things that you're going to have a quicker turn time on. And yeah, those are those are kind of the main methods that we've used, I know other people, other people raise private money, but we just haven't necessarily gone down that route yet.   Michael: Yeah, no, that's great, that's great. And then another question, I get from a lot of the folks I speak with are, how do I figure out what's a fair partnership arrangement or a fair Partnership Agreement? Do you have any thoughts there?   Mike: Yeah. So I think the biggest thing is being explicitly specific about what the roles and conditions are, of your arrangement. So how me and my business partner we've basically divided our roles is: Everything before, like we close on a property that's kind of my world. So I manage the sales team, I manage the marketing, you know, I manage the day to day sort of operations.   Once we close on a property, that's his world, right. So he handles the contractors, he handles the renovations, he handles, you know, make sure the mortgage payments are paid all that sort of stuff, and having that firm agreement and that complete understanding that he's gonna do what I need to do, I'm gonna do what I need to do. It works out very well, because there's never any, you know, head butting, there's never any conflict. And also too, it's, it's allows us to scale very quickly, because we kind of each have our own business distributors, like reliant on each other, right. And so we're not trying to manage two very separate roles. We're not like really double dipping in anything. So that I think, I think that is very, very important and whether, you know, it doesn't have to necessarily a split like that, but whether you know, one partner is the sales guy, one partner is the marketing guy, like, just be super explicit on what that means and just try to stick to your roles as best you can.   Michael: Love it, love it. Totally shifting gears here, Mike, what kind of properties are you targeting for your personal portfolio? Are you doing more flipping? Is it long term buy and hold, is it multifamily? Talk a little bit about that.   Mike: Yeah. So our favorite for holds is like small multifamily, duplexes, triplexes quads. We have some single family stuff. But I mean, the cash flow that you get off of like duplexes, triplexes, and quads you really like, we really prefer those as right now, as opposed to like larger multifamily, just because it's so easy to get financing, and there's so much more liquid. You know, if you have a duplex that you decide you want to sell, it's a lot easier to offload that than like an 18 unit apartment complex.   And, yeah, that's kind of what we're, we're targeting everywhere that we're going right now for our own portfolio. And then the half in terms of like renovations and flips, we're kind of looking at everything, we've, we've flipped everything from mobil homes, to we flipped a seven unit apartment complex, so you know what we'll be willing to take on anything like that but…   Michael: That's awesome, that's awesome. Having done so many different things and start, you know, at different stages in your journey, what do you recommend people get started with? If someone's brand new real estate investing? Like I want to do real estate investing, everyone's talking about it, I have to do this thing, where should I start?   Mike: So I would say if you're really serious about it, honestly, the best thing you could do is find someone that has a business like mine and go work for them.   Michael: Hmm. Are you hiring?   Mike: Oh, well, we are hiring sales guys, we're looking to go into new markets.     Michael: What's the website called Mike?   Mike: Yeah, so like, ehmm to reach out to us? Yeah, if you go to: https://inwproperties.com/ , you can send me a message on there for our business. But uh, yeah, I think that that would be the like, if you're really, really serious that you want to be a professional real estate investor go work for people that are professional real estate investors, you know, ideally in a role where you are getting to be a part of the deals and the negotiations.   You know, I think that big sort of asterix there, when you're talking to people like that, make sure that they are actually walking the walk themselves. Because there's a lot of people that will be looking for cheap labor to kind of do like the, you know, the bottom of the barrel work they don't want to do, but they're not actually having that much success themselves. So you might not have that much knowledge to gain. I know, we are one of our most recent employees, who's our he was our transactions, our transaction coordination, or dispositions. It's like a 23 year old guy and he said, he talked to a handful of different people before he found us. And he's like, yeah, I kind of went in and found out they were only doing like, seven or eight deals a year and that wasn't like going to give them enough chances at bat, sort of like learn what they're doing. But yeah, and I'd say, if you want to be super serious, do that. If you want to be more of a casual investor, and you have a WT that you like, or you have a job that you like, honestly start going to meetups and just meeting people. And not only go to the meetups, meet people, but identify the key players at those meetups and follow up with them on a very regular basis.   You know, and try to bring them value in some way. Because so many people, they go to those meetups, and they never reach out to somebody again, or they never actually try to bring value to any of the people they meet there and then surprise, it doesn't actually lead anything.   Michael: A deal didn't fall in my lap, it sucks...   Mike: Exactly. Yeah, that's what they're thinking, you know, you go and you find that heavy hitter at the real estate meetup and you, you know, call him every once in a while send him attacks, like you know, just try to engage and try to build a friendship, opportunities will come to you at the end of the day. You know, even if you do I'm a little bit crazy in the middle, they're eventually going to warm up to you know, the average person is gonna do that.   Michael: You can wear them down.       Mike: Exactly. Honestly, though.   Michael: Oh, I love it. And I'm like, I agree with you 1,000% like find ways to bring these people value. I think for so many listeners who are just getting started, like, that's sounds like Greek to them and so what are some ideas? Or maybe like speaking for yourself what would you be receptive to if someone came to you as like, hey, I'm new, I'm trying to get started, this is what I'm going to help you with? And what are some actionable steps or some ways that people can actually bring value to some of those heavy hitters?   Mike: Yeah, so it mean, it can be things as large as bringing them a deal, bring them an opportunity. It can be things as small as like making connections, you know, so you like, let's say, you meet with one of these, you know, larger investors, and they're like, oh, you know, I've been, I just had this big, like, roof job. And one of my properties, you know, it was a real pain, whatever and then it's like, okay, so maybe what you do is you go out, and you find them a better alternative for that in the future. And you say, like, hey, I remember you said that you, you really overpay for this roof, you know, I met this guy, um, you know, I talked to this guy, he has a similar, here's a business that could do that, probably for cheaper, right?   Something like that. Or it can be as simple as you know, doing day to day work in one of their transactions if they need it. Like if someone's complaining about a tenant, or you know, somebody who's residing in a property they're working on, maybe offer to do the cash for keys conversation for them, see, if you if you volunteer to go and pay that person to leave for them, and just relieve some of their headache, like anything that you can find that could make their life a little bit easier, especially if they're a full time investor, and there's busy as a full time investors are, they'll remember that, and that will carry a lot more weight than you think it would.   Michael: Totally. No, those are both great suggestions, I love that. I remember hearing um, one of the BiggerPockets podcast, it might have been Brandon Turner, David Green, one of the hosts know, like, if you're trying to get someone help you like, don't go ask them like, oh, what do you need help with?   Because then that means they have to spend their mental capacity thinking of other things that you could do for them, as opposed to you coming to them saying, hey, I heard you had this problem, let me help solve it for you.   Mike: Exactly. I mean, it's a people business, like I said before, you know, the other investors are people too and even when you're finding your own deals, when you're looking to wholesale those deals or pair that, you know, pair them with other investors, listen to what the investors want, I guarantee you'll make more money. If you find the deals that that specific investor wants, you know, and same thing, if you want partnerships, you want to find private lenders, you want to find contractors listen to their needs as a business. Everyone always thinks about money and a lot of times it is but everyone always has a deeper route than just pure money, you know…   Michael: We hope… if they you know, some people, maybe not.   Mike: Yeah, that's true. That's true.   Michael: Mike, this was awesome, man, thank you so much for spending some time with me today. If people want to learn more about you, take advantage of your wholesale business, you know, off market deals, what's the best way they get in touch?   Mike: Me and my business partner, we started our own podcast, I guess about four or five months ago. It's called: Collecting Keys - Real Estate Investing Podcast. It's kind of like a in the weeds sort of podcast about how to be a full time investor and sort of like the ins and outs of running a business like ours. So we get pretty in depth about different marketing strategies, things that have gone right with our business, things have gone wrong with our business. Our most recent episode that we just released, as this one came out was talking about a… oil spill that we had in one of our Airbnbs, or an oil furnace exploded.   Michael: Oh, you're not talking like olive oil?   Mike: No, no, no, no, this is yeah, this is Diesel fuel that flooded one of our properties. You know, so we talked about, like how you deal with that situation, which, you know, you have enough properties that eventually going to happen… So you can go check me out there. You can reach out to us through that website at https://collectingkeyspodcast.com/ . You can also hit me up on Instagram, which is @mike_invests, people feel free to shoot me a DM on there, I love to chat with people. Between those two things, you will get a pretty deep insight into what being a full time investor is actually like without all the fluffy stuff that you necessarily hear everywhere else. Michael: Love it a day in the life.   Mike: Exactly.   Michael: That's great but Mike, thank you again for hanging out with me. I really appreciate you and I'm sure we'll chat soon. Mike: Awesome. Thank you so much, Michael. I Appreciate it.   Michael: Alright, you take care.   Alright, well, that was episode, a big thank you to Mike for coming on. We definitely look forward to having him back on the show to do a deep dive into how to…: behind some of the strategies he talked about in the show today. As always, if you liked the episode, please feel free to leave us a rating or review wherever it is you listen to our podcasts, and we look forward to seeing the next one. Happy investing…

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Matthew 22 35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 36 “Master, which is the great commandment in the law” 37 Jesus said unto him, “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.” 38 “This is the first and great commandment.” 39 “And the second is like unto it, thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.” 40 “On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”

Bats asks the scientists if they're okay and their response doesn't fill us with much hope really. They don't SOUND okay! Batman is going to try to save them anyway, damn it. OH WAIT, NO HE ISN'T! To be fair, he's got more important work to do - with mirrors! Back again are Rachel Gatlin and Adam Sheehan of TMNT Minute. This investigation is gonna be bodacious! Bitchin'! Gnarly! Radical! Totally tubular! Wicked! Hellacious! Uh... mega! The next episode follows on Friday. Same Bat Pod, different Bat Minute! Join us on Facebook at the Bat Minute Listener's Cave! The Bat Minute theme song is by the band Rat Bit Kit and Ash Lerczak (aka Doc Horror) of Zombina & The Skeletones and Double Echo.   Today's Guests were:   Rachel Gatlin - Twitter   Adam Sheehan - Twitter   Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Minute - Website - Facebook - Twitter - Instagram  

"Out of the Silent Planet" by CS Lewis. Not gonna pretend to enjoy it, it's just kind of there. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/radcracker/message

Moving from the closet booth to the…car booth? Anne and Pilar finish telling the story of Pilar's Journey in Part 3 of the Boss Voces premiere. Listen as Pilar finally packs her car (+ her cat!) and moves to LA in hopes of establishing her VO career and signing with a big agency. It's been a wild ride, but things are really coming together now on the West Coast for Pilar... More at: https://www.voboss.com/pilars-journey-part-3 Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I'm so happy to welcome back to the show special guest cohost Pilar Uribe. Pilar, hey, how are you today? Pilar: I'm doing great. How are you? Anne: I'm doing great. Hey, I have been so interested in your story, and we've learned so many things that are parallels to being in the voiceover industry today from your story. So our last couple of episodes, we talked about your telenova star personalities in Colombia and your -- I think it was nine years you were there in Colombia doing all kinds of acting -- Pilar: That's right. Anne: -- and some radio as well. And then you moved on to Miami, and we're talking to us about your radio career in Miami and how you evolved into that and also in voiceover. And now we're on when your next move, which it's so interesting, you moved from Colombia to Florida, to Miami, and I, I think it was all just things seem to take you where you needed to go to evolve in your career. And I think that's such a cool parallel with my experience as well. And hopefully BOSSes that are listening out there kind of have some similarities as well. So I'd love to hear about your, I guess what made you go from Miami to LA, and let's, let's continue the journey with you. Pilar: So I'm in Miami, and my, as I said, in the last episode, my land lady, she actually wrote me an email saying, I'm so sorry, but I'm going to sell the apartment. Anne: And you were there for how long? Pilar: 16 years. Anne: Wow. Pilar: Yeah. So my first thought was total and utter panic because I was like, oh my gosh, I have to get out of this apartment that I've lived in. And I've sort of made a life for myself. And I started looking around. I had been working with somebody. We've had like a 25 now, yeah, more than 25-year conversation with his really good friend of mine in New York and something that he used to say to me. I had started getting a little bit sort of, I want to do something else, but I'm not really sure what it is. You know, I, I've got four jobs and I've got the radio host thing, and it's just, you know, it's, I'm always hustling, and it would be nice to be able to do more voiceover. But you know, Miami is not a lot, a lot of opportunity there, unless it's in my booth. And he said something to me, because I was like, you know, I think I need to. And he would say until you decide to pack your bag, you're not going to move. And he said that to me for years. And I take it now is it's not just a physical thing. It's sort of a, if I want to do something, I have to go ahead and do it. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: Because I can talk about it -- Anne: You have to pack your bag. Pilar: -- until the cows. Yeah. So like, I can talk about it until the cows come home. But if I don't actually do it and decide to make a change, I'm never going to do anything, you know? Anne: Yeah. I love that. I love that. There you go manifestation again. Pilar: Exactly. Anne: Especially for those BOSSes that are early in their careers, and they don't know, and they think about it, and they think this is what they want to do, but yeah. Actually taking the step and the, the physical part of yes, making that decision, putting the things in place, and it helps it come to fruition. Pilar: Exactly. So I didn't tell anybody, and this is something that I'm very conscious of. A lot of the times I would sit there, like I wrote like 17 or 18 songs when I lived in Colombia. And so I said, you know, I'm, I have songs and I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I would tell everybody that I was gonna put out an album eventually. I never put the album out, but I told everybody I was going to do it. And a lot of the times when you say things like that, you leak your energy. So when you have an intention in your mind, it's really important to keep it within yourself, um, and share it with people that you can trust and be aware that it's not something that you need to sit there and gab and gab and gab and gab about, but that you really need to focus on what it is that you're doing. And I think that, that's what I, I mean, I did that for a while, and I would sit there and I would complain, and I'd be like, oh, you know, I want more. And I'm really kind of in love with this thing called voiceover, but I don't really know what it is. And so I decided to just go ahead and kind of be quiet and say, okay, if I'm going to do something -- because I'd been doing it for 10 years and everything that I got was actually I got it. I didn't have an agent. I didn't, I, you know, had the on-camera agents, but I was doing voiceover. So I thought, okay, what, where can I go? And so VO Atlanta was coming up. And so I just thought, well, let me, let me check out Atlanta, because I love Atlanta. I've been there a few times, and I went and I saw these people and it was really wonderful. And then I thought, let me go. There was a, I think it was a WoVo was having a small, like a little mini session in San Francisco. So I thought, let me, let me go there. But once I left to go there, there was something about it. As much as I loved Atlanta, Atlanta was, I mean, at that point, um, this is two years ago now going on three, it's really, it, it definitely has a very strong voiceover, but it was more for on camera. And I realized I really want to focus on my voiceover, you know? And, and I had always thought, I mean, I always knew that in LA, you know, LA for me, it was like the Olympic village. And I was like, do I want to, I've always dreamed of going to LA and this, my friend Dale has been telling me would tell you, pack your bag. Anne: Yeah. LA is weird dreams coming true. Right? People move to LA with their dreams. Pilar: Right, exactly. What was it that they say in -- "what do you wish for? It your dream!" Was it that -- it was this great guy at the very beginning of "Pretty Woman." Anne: Oh! Pilar: He says it at the very beginning. Anne: Oh yeah. Pilar: And he says it at the very end. Anne: Yup. Pilar: "What do you wish for?" It was, it's really cool. So I went to San Francisco and then I went and I spent a few days with a friend in LA. And as soon as I got there, I was like, oh, I'm supposed to be here. And I just knew. Anne: Yup, yup. Pilar: I just, it was like, I arrived. And I just knew that that was the place. Anne: Yup. Pilar: So I went back to Miami and I started setting intentions, just like I had when I moved to Colombia. I was like, okay, I'm just going to start setting my intentions here. And I was like, okay, I'm going to need a place to live. And I had time before I had to leave. So this is like in March, March/April, and I had a lead from a very kind person who wrote a letter to Atlas Talent, and it turned out and of course, it's the universe, because they were looking for bilingual voiceover talent. Anne: There you go. Pilar: So I get this email, and they're like, we'd like to have a meeting. And I was like, oh my gosh, they want to have a meeting? They want to have a meeting with me? Are you kidding? I was like, I, so I didn't want to tell them that I wasn't there yet. So I was like, you know, I'm in the process. So I wrote them back and I said, you know, thank you so much. I'm in the process. I'll let you know when I get there. Anne: Now, can I ask you how long ago this was? Pilar: Two years ago. It's going to be three years. Anne: Okay. And it's so interesting because again, the timing of everything, right? I feel like it's important to me. We're really coming into, you know, inclusivity and diversity and needing bilingual and more and more and more. So that makes sense to me. Pilar: Yes. And, and that will play later -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- into that. So I started packing, I started throwing things away. I started giving things away because I realized I can't move with all my stuff. 'Cause it was just, it was just too expensive. So I had to, you know, sell, give away, donate. And I got July 19th, 2019, I got into the car. I packed all my stuff, and with my kitty, with Paco. Anne: And drove across the country. Pilar: I drove across the country. I picked up a very good friend of mine who actually, we started out almost -- I met him almost as soon as I got to, uh, Miami ,Aaron, Aaron Goldenberg. And he is an actor as well. He was living in Atlanta at the time, but I flew him back from Atlanta to Miami on my frequent flyer miles. And we drove across the country, which I highly recommend. I mean, you know, this is -- Anne: With a cat. Pilar: Of course. Anne: With a cat. Pilar: With a cat, of course. I highly recommend -- Anne: How was your booth kitty in the car for a cross-country trip? That would be interesting. Pilar: I have to tell you, he was really good considering, you know, of course there was meowing going on. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: I never let him out of the car. I mean, I never let him out of his travel bag because, you know, that's just not a good idea with -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- with cats, but he was really good. Anne: What about when you stay -- I can't imagine you did the drive in one fell swoop. Pilar: No, no, no, no, no. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: It took us seven days. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: We would drive, I would park some litter in the bottom of the car. I had some litter there and I had water there. And so what I would do is that I would take him out when we would do rest stops. I would take him out and we would leave him alone. We would close the car. We would leave him the most. So he would check it out. He never went to the bathroom in my car. Anne: Oh my gosh. Pilar: I have to -- yeah, no. So what would happen is when we would get to a place, I would immediately, the first thing I would do was I would set up his kitty litter box with a little portable thing that I had, and I would put it in the closet usually so he would have privacy and he would go immediately. So -- Anne: I can't imagine them holding it for like an eight-hour ride. Like -- Pilar: I know. And the thing is, it was right there. That's what was so obnoxious that he wouldn't go. And I had the kitty litter there for him, but he refused to go. So, you know, whatever. Anne: We digressed, we digressed -- Pilar: We digressed, yes. Sorry. Anne: -- into the studio -- into the studio cat -- Pilar: Yes. Anne: -- conversation. But I'm sorry, I had to, I had to ask. Pilar: But it can be done. I'm just, I'm telling you now, Anne, it can be done if you want to go across with the kitties, it can be done. Anne: See, we manifested it. We manifest -- we manifest our kitties as well. Pilar: Exactly. Anne: Crossing the country. Pilar: Um, yeah. So it was, it was, it was great. I saw the most beautiful parts of this country. I was like, it's, it's really, when you realize, for those of you living in the States -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- you just realize the vastness of this country and how amazing it is. You just, you really don't get that um, you know, when you fly in. Driving, it was, it was just, it was such a great experience driving through all across -- all of the states. Anne: That's what I'm going to do when I retire. Pilar: It's definitely worth doing. Anne: Yup. Pilar: So we, we arrived in Phoenix, and Aaron had to fly back for a gig. So I dropped and we -- that had that already been planned. So I dropped him off in Phoenix, and it was close enough that I could, you know, drive the rest of the way myself. It's like 600 miles. So it was long. But I had, I had done that before. So I drove. And then when I was literally inside LA, when I was literally inside, when I was inside the -- in California, I took a picture. I was like, okay, I've reached California. So I took a little, a little post -- I did, I just did a little Instagram post. And when I got within the confines of LA county, when I knew I was within LA county, I stopped the car. I pulled to the side of the road. I stopped the car, and I sent an email so the agent would know that I was there because I didn't want to lie about that I was there when I wasn't. So I was like, okay, I'm already physically here. So then they know. So then they wrote me back pretty quickly after that. And they said, you know, we're every, and it was, you know, it was the summer. So everybody was on vacation. So I got to LA, I wrote them and I, I saw them like about two weeks after I arrived. I arrived at a friend's house. And then I started doing Airbnb, and then I found a place through a good friend, Randy Thomas. She found me -- a friend of hers had a room. So I rented a room, this dear man. So I just started living basically out of my car. I just, I had all this stuff, obviously. So I took some stuff out, but I would live out out of my car because like, what else am I going to do? Anne: Right. Pilar: I can't bring all that stuff 'cause it wouldn't fit in this room. Anne: And this is before, this is before pandemic. Pilar: This is way before pandemic. Anne: Yeah. Okay. Pilar: Yeah. So, so I'm, I'm -- Anne: Well, not so far, actually. Pilar: No, no, no, no, not that far. No, because this is August. This was August. So -- Anne: Right, pandemic March. Pilar: Yeah. This was the August, 2019. Anne: Okay. Because was it 2020? Pilar: Yeah, yes. Anne: Where have the years gone? Pilar: Yes. I know, exactly. We went through a whole year and a half. Right? It's already -- Anne: Didn't we have two years of pandemic? I'm not sure. Pilar: Yeah, we're about to reach two years of pandemic, yes. Anne: So okay, so you're about a year before the pandemic then. Pilar: Yeah. Six months. Anne: Oh, okay. Pilar: Nine months, nine months. Anne: Okay, nine months. Pilar: Nine months. So -- Anne: Like a pregnancy, like -- Pilar: Exactly, like a pregnancy. Exactly. So I had nine months ,and that's really important. Anne: Yes. Pilar: So I, I, um, I, I go to the agent. I, you know, I get all dolled up and I, I get there super early to the appointment with the agents, and they were like, so incredible. So nice. So normal. I was like, wow, okay, this is just, and they asked me questions. And so I, I, you know, I give them my stuff. I give them my little, you know, my little elevator pitch, which by the way, everybody needs an elevator pitch. That's really important to have an elevator pitch. That's what I'm discovering is like, you know, just basically like a little minute of your life. Anne: Sure. Pilar: You know? Anne: Absolutely. Pilar: And so then they, you know, they asked me, they said, do you want to freelance? Which is what I had been doing for 16 years, because Miami is a right to work state, so with all my on-camera agents. And I didn't, I didn't have any experience with, with VO agents. And they said, do you want to freelance? Do you want to, you know, sign? And I was like, oh, where's the page where I can sign on the dotted line? I was like, I'm not, I'm not freelancing if you're giving me this choice, I'm signing, you know, because obviously California is not a right to work state. It's like, you sign with an agent, you're done. So I was like, yep, I'm on board. And then afternoon, they sent me an audition. And I was like, okay, how do I do this? So I became really good at auditioning inside my car. Anne: Tell me about your setup in the car. Pilar: So the setup is, it's actually, it's a really cool setup. So you sit, you have to sit in the backseat. You pull the seat all the way to -- forward. And I have a Sennheiser 416. Anne: Yup. Pilar: So you pull the seat all the way forward. You sit on -- and, you know, it's, it's, it's a maneuvering situation to get your butt in the bottom of the car, not on the seat, but on the floor of the car. Anne: And we'll share a picture of this setup on our website, on the VO BOSS website. Pilar: Totally. Oh yeah. Anne: I would love to share. Pilar: Oh, I have it. I have it. I have a picture. Yeah, totally. Totally. And then the laptop goes on the back seat, and then I've got my Focusrite 2i2 there as well. And then little, you know, the cables. And then I've got my Sennheiser with a stand in the middle of where the, on the -- Anne: Console, on the console? Pilar: On the console. Anne: Okay. Pilar: No, in the middle of where the front seats are. Anne: Yes, yes. Right. Pilar: So it's that little it's, it's not on top of where the dashboard is, but it's in the middle. So I'm sitting down, and I'm looking -- Anne: I call that the console. Pilar: Oh, you do? Okay. We call that -- Anne: Well, I do, the console in between the seats. Pilar: Yeah. Okay, cool. Cool. Cool. Yeah. Okay, cool. It's like, I'm not familiar with that lingo. Sorry. I'm not that advanced! So I don't know why they used to call -- we used to call them jump seat -- the jump parts. I don't know, whatever. Anyway, so I'll take a little table. I'll call it the table. So I'd put my set, the, the holder, the mic holder and the Sennheiser. Anne: Yup. Pilar: And I would start doing auditions from there. 'Cause I originally, I had a, uh, a dear friend who would also let me use his studio, but sometimes I couldn't get to the studio in time if it was quick. Anne: Right, right. So it's not like you were living out of your car. I mean, you had a place to stay; you just didn't have a booth. Pilar: I didn't have a booth. Yeah. And the thing is I didn't have room. Anne: Yeah. And so your car acted as the booth. Pilar: Exactly. My correct as the booth. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: And so I had the trunk of my car was filled with stuff -- Anne: Sure. Pilar: -- because I couldn't take everything out, 'cause it just wouldn't fit in the room that I was living in. You know? Anne: Yes. Pilar: So like when I wanted to wear something different, I would go and get something out of the car -- Anne: Go in the trunk. Pilar: -- and then -- yeah, exactly it was, it was actually kind of an easy way to live, you know? Anne: Right? Pilar: -- 'cause I, I didn't have that much. Anne: Minimalist. There you go. Pilar: So it was perfect. And then this guy had a garage. So sometimes when I needed real quiet, because it was -- the lawn mower situation -- Anne: Yup, yup. Pilar: -- in California is just a nightmare and a half. There's always lawn blower, leaf blowers everywhere every day. So I would go and I would park the car, and I would, and this was summer. This was still summer. This was August. I was, I was just sweat like a pig. Anne: Sweltering in the back seat there. Pilar: Totally. But it was perfect because I was really, it was like, I was insulated. Anne: But not like Miami. I can't imagine if you were in -- Pilar: No, no. Anne: -- a car in Miami. Pilar: Oh no, that would be horrible. No, I would. I would be, you know, they wouldn't find me. I'd be asphyxiated. It'd be so bad. Anne: So you did your first audition in the car. Pilar: I did my first -- Anne: For Atlas. Pilar: Yeah, I did my first audition -- I think I did my first -- yes, for Atlas. Yeah, absolutely. 'Cause that was, that was like the first I, I needed a place to go. So that's where I did it. And then I did it at this friend's house as well. A lot of the times, you know, I would come in and I would, I would do like three or four, you know, auditions. I did them for five months, five months. Okay? So I would audition. I finally found again, it was, I wanted a quiet place. I asked for a place. I found this wonderful woman who's also a voiceover person. And she had converted her closet, not her closet, but this other house where she had, uh, she had, she used to do it. So it was actually already sort of treated. It was already a treated space where I'm, where I'm talking to you from now. So it was, it was perfect. Anne: Ah, so you're still in the same place? Pilar: Oh yeah. I'm still at the same place. Anne: There you go. Pilar: You know, when I found the place, it was a matter of, I asked around and this person said, oh, I have this friend of mine who's looking for somebody. So it was just, it was so perfect. It was one of these aha moments. I was like, this is it. This is where I'm supposed to live. I saw the place. And I was like, I want, you know, this is where I want to be. And the first day that I moved in, I had not finished moving in when I had it professionally treated and everything set up here where I'm speaking to you from now. So it was perfect. And I just auditioned and I auditioned. And when I say this am, I mean, it, I didn't get one gig. Anne: So for five months, you auditioned and you auditioned. Pilar: I got zero and I, yeah. I took classes of course, 'cause I realized, oh, this is a different scenario. I'm in the Olympic village of voiceover. Anne: Sure. Pilar: This is not, you know, we're not in Kansas anymore. Anne: Right. And when you auditioned, what sorts of opportunities -- were they bilingual? Were they English? Spanish? What were they? Both. What did they send you? Pilar: They were everything. It was like, they were everything. And it was like, oh my gosh, stuff that I would never have been able to do if I was in Miami. Now this was pre-pandemic. Anne: Yup. Pilar: Obviously the situation has changed, but it was also a testament to my agents who were like willing to put me out there because you know, they're always talking and there's always feedback obviously. Anne: Sure. Pilar: So I would get auditions for McDonald's. Well, I would never, I've never been able to do that in Miami. Anne: Hold on a minute. I'm going to back the truck up there for a minute because you say there's always feedback. So with great agents, I think you get great feedback. Pilar: Yes. Anne: And if you are actively requesting feedback, I think that that can very much help. I know there's -- some people never get feedback. I think that that is something that is very different. And when you're shopping around for agents, and agents are shopping around, it really is a partnership. And I think that if you want a great agent, they will, they will be absolutely willing to give you feedback and help to propel your career. Just like you're going to help them get clients. Pilar: Exactly. And you just made a really good point because it's a partnership. Anne: Yup. Pilar: It's not, oh, the agent is up there, and I'm down here or, "oh, you work for me. You got to get me the rules." No, no, no, no, no. Anne: Right, exactly. Pilar: It's not a community. It's like, you've literally created a community. Now, the agents won't say anything until you ask them. Anne: Yes, absolutely. Pilar: If I'm in the driver's seat, I need to drive my career. So I need to ask for that. And I have to be able to, you know, put my ego to the side -- Anne: Yes. Pilar: -- and listen to what they're saying. Anne: Yes. Pilar: And not say, oh, well, they don't know what they're talking. They don't know that. You know, it, it really is. It's a, it's a real give and take. It's about giving it. It's about receiving. Anne: So now in your five months, when you were not booking, were you asking for feedback? Pilar: Not at the beginning, but then I asked for who do you recommend that I study with? Anne: Right, right. Pilar: And they were like, okay, we have this and this and this. And I was like, okay, great. And I also asked other, I asked a lot of other voiceover people. I was like, well, who do you recommend here? Who do you -- so then I started taking classes. Anne: Sure. I think what's nice is that they, first of all, I would feel like because they are a large talent agency and a very well-known one. The fact that they gave you the opportunity, like if it were, I think any normal person going through that, and I'd start to be, oh my gosh, I haven't booked for five -- you know, it would start to psych me out. Oh my gosh, what if they drop me? Or what if, and it could be a nerve-wracking kind of situation. If you feel like, well, there's gotta be something that needs to change here. So you want to book for your agent. Pilar: And you know what the thing is, Anne? To me, it's a testament to my agent, the agency that I have, and I feel really blessed. They were very -- it's not -- they knew that I was there. They knew that I was new, and they were -- Anne: They had faith in you. Pilar: -- it's not that they were hands off. Anne: They had faith in you, right? Pilar: Exactly. And there was somebody that I talked to in the office one time, because I was just like really freaking out at one point. I was like, oh my God, they must think -- Anne: Yeah, I can imagine. Pilar: -- who is this person? Why did we hire her? You know, it's like, she's not doing anything. And she was so nice and to the point, and she's like, you know what? It was almost like she said -- she didn't say it this way, but what she meant from that conversation was we know you're a newbie. That's why we're throwing it all out at you. We're giving you the space to do this. Anne: Nice. Pilar: So, uh, and I can't, I can't remember how she said it, but that's what I walked away from. Anne: Sure. Pilar: And I was like -- walked away with -- Anne: Sure. Pilar: -- and I thought, oh, thank God. You know, I'm not -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- like I'm not going to be fired immediately. You know what I mean? Anne: What a nice, what a nice testament to really a working partnership and that your agent has faith in you, and they're giving you -- Pilar: Yes. Anne: -- that space. And I think obviously they had to have known when they first spoke to you, when they first met you, that you had the wherewithal to be successful from whatever, from your past experience, from your personality, from your drive, whatever it was, they had that faith in you, and they kept that faith in you. So that's a really nice, that's a really nice story. Pilar: Yeah. Anne: I'm hoping that our listeners will take that for what it is, because I think getting an agent and having an agent and having a relationship with an agent is something we could have a whole podcast episode about -- Pilar: Yeah, yeah. Anne: -- in regards to the, how to work together as a partnership. Pilar: Yeah. And, and, and I think for me, what was really great was that I was willing to listen to them, and I was also willing to be transparent with them. Anne: Absolutely. Pilar: So they knew, they knew where I was coming from. I mean, they knew that I had radio experience because I have all this stuff on my website. Anne: Sure. Pilar: But they also knew that I was very new to the business in terms of commercial versus all these other genres in the world that they live in. Anne: Sure. Absolutely. Pilar: And they were willing to give me that latitude. Anne: Great. Pilar: So transparency, I think, is really important in this world. Anne: Oh, I completely agree. Pilar: And to be able to turn it into something of, not that I don't know this -- into, I'm very willing to learn -- Anne: How can I -- Pilar: -- and I'm willing to work hard, yeah. Anne: -- how can I learn? How can I, yeah. I'm eager to learn. There you go back to, back to your roots there. Pilar: Exactly. Anne: I may not know, but I am absolutely eager to learn. And I think there's a lot to be said for that in just an overall mentality about what we do every day in our -- I mean, there's always opportunities to learn, and you're talking to an educator here, one that was in front of the classroom for 20 years. We always, always have an opportunity to learn and to improve. And I think that if you take nothing else away from our episode, absolutely, this is one of them. And there's always ways, if you're transparent, if you want to learn, you're eager to learn, people appreciate that. And agents, especially, I think appreciate that. Pilar: Absolutely. Yep. I totally agree. Anne: So five months, nothing. Then what? Pilar: Then I booked this job and -- Anne: Commercial? Pilar: Commercial. It's a commercial job. And I will never forget when the check came in. I thought they'd made a mistake. I almost called them and said, you've, you've made a mistake because this has gotta be wrong. Luckily I called a friend of mine. I al -- I literally, I had my hand on, on the press send a button. I thought we just call a really good friend of mine back east who's a voiceover. And she started laughing when I told her. She said, no Pilar, that's the right amount. This is what it means when you are a union actor, to get paid in the industry. So I was like, oh, thank God. I'm going to be able to pay my bills. Anne: Yup. Pilar: And then that was the end of January. And then in March, the pandemic hit and I was ready. And so I just, I started booking. I just started booking and booking and booking. Anne: Success begets success. Pilar: Yeah. Yeah. Anne: Fantastic. Wow. What a great story. Pilar: Yeah. Anne: What a great story. And so now during this pandemic, you're still in the same place, right? Except now you have -- Pilar: Yes. Anne: -- you don't have to necessarily record in the back of your car because you have a studio, which is awesome, which is where you are talking to me now from. And you are, I hope just a booking machine. And now is Atlas your only -- I imagine you have more than one agency or is Atlas pretty much your agency you're working with right now? Pilar: Well, I was with Stars before I was with Atlas, and they were, you know, they were okay with it. You know, and they're, they're totally okay with having other regional agents that are not, you know, in their market. I've looked around for others. But you know, when I started looking around the pandemic had hit. So they were really swamped. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: So they're really my go-to people right now. Anne: Sure. Pilar: You know, it's, it's not easy because yes. I had a huge glut in 2020, and then 2021 was a lot quieter. It's been a lot quieter than I expected because I, you know, it was just the, I don't, if it was, I was the new kid on the block or what it was. And so, you know, for me, it's like finding other ways to be creative -- Anne: Sure. Pilar: -- and to be able to support myself in that way. And so it's like, I'm constantly learning, you know? And if there's, if there's one thing that I can, a takeaway for me, from what I've been talking about is that I always have a beginner mindset. So if there's a place where I'm feeling stuck, because this is an area, let's say, where I'm not booking, it's like, okay, what other ways can I find -- Anne: Sure. Pilar: -- to do it creatively? Anne: And to evolve, right, as an artist. Pilar: And to evolve. Exactly. Because it's not just about booking the big, you know, commercial job. Anne: Sure. Pilar: It's about how can I incorporate everything that I've learned, and how can I maybe use that in a different way? Anne: And I'll tell you what I, what I love is first of all, your story is so wonderful because you try, you have faith, you manifest, you move. And while you struggle, you know, and fail sometimes, you ultimately come out where you become successful. And it has happened from the story that has evolved here to you multiple times. So each time when you move, you're growing, you're hitting those stumbling blocks. You're growing, you're finding success. And even now you came to LA, you got the agent, you got the jobs, you did really well. Now you hit a little bit of a lull. And so again, you're going through that cycle of how can I improve? How can I grow? What can I do to, to learn? And I think it's such a wonderful testament to how our industry works and how the artistry works of voiceover, where we just must continuously learn. We must continually take those chances. We must continually learn from our failures, right, and put into practice things that we can do to be successful. And what a great story. I absolutely love it. So I want to take the time now to thank you again for telling the story and helping us in being so inspiring. Because I think in our next episodes, I really want to get more into the nitty gritty of the day to day voiceover career that you are now embracing and, and living so that we can talk about how BOSSes out there can, you know, maybe do the same so that they can be successful. Pilar: Absolutely. And I'm very, very excited to keep going. Anne: Yeah. All right. Well, BOSSes, I'm going to give a great, big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network like a BOSS. Find out more at ipdtl.com. Guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Take care. Bye-bye. Pilar: Bye, fellow BOSSes. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. 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Kash Patel says the White House is silent, doing nothing on Ukraine and Xi Jinping is planning his own offensive whether Taiwan or currency markets.  Patel fears Biden turned over our best Ukraine Intel to China and failed to stop the invasion.  GUEST:  KASH PATEL, former SECDEF Chief of Staff,  HPSCI Senior Counsel, and NSC Senior Director Counter-Terrorism

Interview: We talk to Dave Dastmalchian and John Hoogenakker about a special moment with F. Murray Abraham, finding friendship in a cutthroat environment, having substance abuse and authority issues, mind-f***ery, the cloistered nature of conservatories, using skills gained at TTS on set, taking an eclectic approach to acting, the tricky dance of teaching an art form, PR Casting, Does a Tiger Wear a Necktie, when William Burroughs discovered a copy of the Fledgling Press, a zine which Dave created.FULL TRANSCRIPT:Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:00:08):I'm Jen Bosworth Ramirez.Dave Dastmalchian (00:00:10):and I'm Gina Pulice.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:00:11):We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it.Dave Dastmalchian (00:00:15):20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:00:20):We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?Dave Dastmalchian (00:00:29):So they concocted this plan to make A shelf in our library, like right above the door frame, that goes all the way around the room. So I am not kidding you. So, soJen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:00:49):Pictures, pictures, put them on the website. Okay.Dave Dastmalchian (00:00:53):Here's the deal though? My son, my, my middle child is so smart. He has never helped us with these type of projects before, because he doesn't really like, he traditionally hasn't really liked working with his hands, but this time he wanted to, it was really his idea. He wanted to do it. And he's such a math brain that he insisted on doing heavy. Pre-planning like he made us model, not a, he's calling it a model. It's not really a model. he's like got a piece of paper. He drew plans for it. He did all kinds of measurements. He used. Yeah, it was great. And he goes, listen, if we don't plan it out like this, then we get halfway through and we run into a snag and then we stop working on it, which is exactly what the oldest one. And I have done on a number of projects, including building a full-sized Playhouse on our back -Yes ma'am yes. Ma'am. I spent thousands of dollars on wood and nails and power tools so that we could have this joint project of building a Playhouse. And we didn't think it through one single bit. We, we found some plans on the internet and we went through and we made it. I got, we got all the way to the roof and the roof is what did us in? We couldn't, we couldn't get up high enough on the thing. We didn't have a high enough ladder and it's not in a great enough position. We couldn't put the roof on it, sat there for a year. And then it was time for the bar mitzvah, which we were having the party at our house. So we had to, and we had to take the whole thing down and we never finished it. So the other one goes, listen, we're I don't want to do that. I don't want to go through all this work and give it up. So he planned it and boy did he plan it with an inch of his life and it's going up and it's looking great. And I will send you picturesJen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:02:44):That is done. Oh my gosh. Merry Christmas. [inaudible] freaking Christmas. That's fantastic.Dave Dastmalchian (00:02:51):I have one other cute little story to tell you.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:02:55):I took, well, I told her, um, I told C's, um, hummus story is Sasha and Chrissy and Tilly. Oh. Saw them from afar. Um, we saw them outside. Uh, they're amazing. And they laughed so hard. It was. Yeah. So it's for people that don't know. I mean, we've probably said, I'd probably made you tell it like four times, but you, but my version, this is how I tell it is that, um, your daughter says, mom, what, what kind of stuff do they have to eat in prison? Do they have like bad food? And you're like, yeah, it's probably not that great. She goes like hummus? They cracked up anyway.Dave Dastmalchian (00:03:37):She's she's hilarious. So, um, I was sick yesterday and she came home from the bus. Oh, earlier in the day she had -I was taking her to school and this little girl had these really cute boots on these little there's some, some, Ugg, type boots. She's like, Oh, I love those boots. And I S and she had said something to me about it before. And I said, yeah, you know, I looked for those, but I couldn't, I don't see where they are. I, I, you know, I can't, I can't find any of the information for it. So she comes home yesterday. Oh, this is so sweet. She brings me a plate with sliced up bananas, um, something else, and the little container of yogurt that she got in her lunch that she brought home. Cause this is kind of sugary yogurt that I never buy for her Trix yogurt. And she covered it in saran wrap. And she wrote me a note. I get, well, note, and it's a picture of the two of us. And it said, mom, get, well soon. I love you. And you, and it says at the bottom turnover, turnover, they have such, she goes, I got the information about the boots!Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:04:53):I'm telling you. She's genius.Dave Dastmalchian (00:04:56):She writes, You can get them at col that's Kohl's or you could get them at Kohl's or, um, uh, TRG I T get at targetJen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:05:12):She's genius.Dave Dastmalchian (00:05:14):She followed up this morning. She goes, so did you, did you check out Kohl'sSpeaker 4 (00:05:31):[inaudible]?Dave Dastmalchian (00:05:38):Hm. We've moved a lot. I mean, not as much as you, but we've moved a lot in the time that we've been together. 20 whatever years we probably moved, I don't know, 15 times and, or maybe less than that, but, uh, between 10 and 15 times. And we, one of the things that we lug around from place to place is a lot of mementos. A box of mementos turned into two boxes, turned into two boxes each. Now we have kids, they have their boxes. So we're at the point where not only because of this for other reasons, but we have to store all the mementos in a storage facility. This is the dumbest possible thing. I mean, it also has furniture from, Oh, it has furniture. But like, anyway, we store boxes in boxes. Probably those plastic tubs, you know, the big plastic tubs would probably have like six plastic tubs that are of mementos.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:06:40):Wow.Dave Dastmalchian (00:06:41):Aaron has, you know, the, the little plaque he got when he won a tennis tournament in eighth grade is it's like a lot of things. Okay. I've gotten better at paring things down. But then when you have kids, you feel like you shouldn't throw anything away because they're the ones who are going to be going through your stuff one day and who are going to be mad. If you didn't save all of their stuff. Now, of course you cannot save all of their stuff, but like, what's your stance on mementos? What do you keep? What do you toss? What's -do you feel guilty about it, et cetera?Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:07:20):It's a great, that's a great topic. I, um, feel mixed. We have, so, yes, we've moved so much and we too have mementos. Um, there's the Marie Kondo, you know, that if it doesn't spark joy, but I don't really believe that. Um, I think people should, uh, do what they want to do for the most part. I don't subscribe to a minimalist thing, but I definitely feel like for everything you keep, you should throw out one thing. So, so, so that goes with clothes that goes, and it is really hard. Now, mementos are different because they have sentimental, they have sentimental value, but I'm remembering having to go through, uh, both dead parents' stuff. And most of it is garbage. Like most of them, most of it is like a lighter that my dad had that was engraved with someone's initials. That weren't his, why he probably stole it from somebody. But, um, but I was like, what, what, what? No. And it was a tremendous amount of emotional work to go through this stuff. And, um, yeah, I say get rid of, most of it. I get rid of most of it.Dave Dastmalchian (00:08:42):I mean, I think what it's about is, cause what, what I did with my dad is so when he died, I was right before I got married and he, so he didn't know that I got married or about any of my kids. So I think I really held onto stuff for kind of a long time, because it just felt like I didn't have time to grieve or process or whatever it is. So there are certain things that I, you know, you have your stages, like things you get rid of, like when Aaron's dad died, he came home wearing all of his father's clothes. He had his, and they were all too big pants and his shoes, well, that stuff has started to, it's been about a year, that stuff is starting to go away. So I remember the phases of getting rid of stuff. And it is something about like, you hold onto the, the stuff is like a placeholder for you doing your grieving. So it's like the more you do the work of going through the grieving that's then you, then you feel okay to get rid of the stuff. And the thing about what the kids is, I know something that they don't know, which is that it feels so precious to them now is not going to feel so precious to them. For example, when they go to college or move out and I say, we need to go through this stuff. Now we need to go through and figure out, you know, what you want. And I'm sure that they're going to want to get rid of a lot of stuff, but they also want to keep like, both boys did TaeKwonDo and went through their black belt. And the trophy for a black belt is like, as tall as a person, that's like five feet tall. Those are in storage. We went to storage to get out the Christmas stuff. And my oldest son, he picks up, he goes, this thing was really like a piece of junk. Like it's, you know, cause trophies are just made of plastic cheap metal. Yeah. So I, that was like, okay, you're going to want to get rid of this. That's a good thing. But with the smaller things, like really precious sentimental notes, I feel like keeping, but listen, not every kid or not, every person writes a card that's worth keeping, I'm sorry to say, butJen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:10:58):Right. And what you don't and what, and I think what you're doing is by getting rid of the sub stuff is what you're actually doing is making your kids job easier when we all croak. So if you think about it that way, like I act, but they should be allowed maybe one tub each.Dave Dastmalchian (00:11:18):Right. And we shouldn't have to worry when it gets no, no, well, they don't, they only have one tub, but then they have things like the trophies or the other things that they don't want to get rid of. Yeah. I'm feeling like what we should do is it is a annual or at least every few years going through making sure this is still so, because it, it was only recently that the older two wanted to get rid of their schoolwork from kindergarten. Wow. Yeah. They really wanted to. And that's the other thing is like, if it is serving some emotional need, I cut it off. I don't want to cut off, but I also don't want to, I know how it is with the whole storage facility. We got a storage facility that's bigger than what we need. We're just going to fill it up like a goldfish, eating too much and filling up its bowlJen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:12:05):And then their stomach explodes. Uh, but I was going to say something that you might do too, is if you're into any kind of ritual is w miles will burn. Um, we will burn stuff in a, in a, like a goodbye stuff. Like, um, if it's sentimental letters and stuff, now it, you know, there's not burning a kindergarten paper on, you know, aardvark, but, but if there's anything have some kind of ritual saying goodbye situation. Um, my sister and I, Oh my gosh. When we went to through the attic, there was a, like a 10 year period where everyone died. Right. And so we had 10 people's ashes. I'm not kidding you. My mother, my father, both three grandparents migrating at Ruth. It was crazy. So we didn't know what to do with all these ashes. We just dumped them in the garden. We are like, and we had a parade of ashes. We just had a ritual. We were like, goodbye, goodbye, aunt, Ruth goodbye. Then they all got mixed together, but we literally headed those cremations of like, not, it was like nine people, but I was like, so you don't want, you don't want stuff to accumulate that, that P that the kiddos are going to have to just go through and be like, I mean, the ashes were fine, but there was so much stuff that I was like, Oh my God, like pictures of people that you cannot name, those got to go. Yeah.Dave Dastmalchian (00:13:31):Right. What about though? Have you ever thrown something away? And then been like, Oh, I wish I hadn't got it.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:13:39):But you know what? They were, it was bigger items, actually. Wasn't sentimental stuff. It was like, my mom had this, a couple of chairs and furniture. It was more big stuff. And it doesn't sound like you have tons of big stuff. Um, it sounds like it's more sentimental stuff. Um, but I, I mostly felt like that chair, I should have hold it. It held onto the chair and some of her of dishes and stuff like that. But at the time I was like, no, it's gotta go. It's gotta go. Um, so the other thing that I would say is don't, um, for people is like, don't make any decisions when you're in a heightened, emotional state, because you will save weird and you will throw out stuff that you will. So like, it's good that you go through it once a year. Not in a crisis, not in a, not, you know, after a huge event, but at like when you like a regular checkup to the storage place,Dave Dastmalchian (00:14:36):I think too, I just had this thought what I should do, especially with papers, take pictures, just take pictures of papers. I can, I can even make a book for each of the kids. Like here is five images of all the crap you wanted me to save that I didn't, but I took a picture of it.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:14:58):Brilliant. You just thought of that. Brilliant. Yeah. You're a Marie Kondo in your own, right?Dave Dastmalchian (00:15:04):Aye. Aye. Listen, pursuant to our conversation about my home decor. I'm like, let's get rid of it. Let's get rid of it all. Like I have a China cabinet. I mean, come on. I, I, I mean, I have China. I have, I have tried, but I don't need to, it doesn't need to be displayed. Like, it's my prize possession. You know what I mean? It can just go to shelf.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:15:22):I guess that, that leads me to the question for you is, and it goes back to our other conversation, which is, um, do you think you just adopted that because it's what you thought you should do.Dave Dastmalchian (00:15:33):It's 100% that, because I, yeah, I, I learned at an early age, like I remember being on the younger side and, uh, going through something, I forget what it was, birthday, old birthday cards and throwing them away. And my mom being like, you're getting rid of them. You know, she keeps everything. She keeps her, yes, she keeps everything. But I, uh, my middle child is my, uh, icon in this way. At summer camp, you send cards, you know, you're in current and they like to receive mail. So I sent a lot of cards and he received a lot of cards. He comes home from camp. This is not this past summer. But the summary for her, I said, did you get all the cards I sent you? He said, yes, I did. And they were so great. And on my last day of camp, I looked through all the letters that you and Gran and I gave him a kiss through with the trash. And when he said it, I, I had this Pang of like, Oh, you throw them in the trash. But of course it served its purpose. The purpose was to give him something to remember us by while he was at camp it, then it was over. Then he was going to come home and be with us. He didn't need to hold onto it.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:16:53):It's not sentimental that way. No. What about clothing? Do you hold onto clothing?Dave Dastmalchian (00:16:58):No, no. I get rid of, I mean, I have my, I have my, I kept my wedding dress and I CA I kept like a few of the kids. Very first ones. These remember the onesies that you made, that you, you, we made at your house. I have the, I have not all of them, but I have some of those, but yeah, I don't get sentimental about clothing. Aaron does. Aaron has his high school, varsity jacket and his first pair of scrubs and his first doctor coat and all this kind of stuff. Oh, wow.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:17:30):Go through your clothing. And you're not a shopper. You don't like to shop for clothes.Dave Dastmalchian (00:17:36):Well, I like to have clothes. I just don't like to shop for them. Yeah, no, I go through, I, yeah, I'll have, did I forget if you were here, you saw my closet. We have, I've never seen your closet. It's technically a walk-in, but not really. It was a very small class. I have always had a very small closet. I've never, I know that if I had a huge closet, I would just collect a bunch of clothes. So it's kind of an and shoe. So it's kind of a good thing that I don't know. That's one thing we sort of keep under control. We, I throw out something maybe like once every week or once every two weeks I get rid of stuff. Really? It's the other stuff. It's the stuff that I feel like I'm supposed to have because I have kids or I'm supposed to have, because, because really a lot of the other people in my life are very sentimental errands. Very sentimental has. My mother is very sentimental. My kids are very sentimental. So I feel like I have to keep all this stuff for them. But I really don't.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:18:31):That was a China cabinet. Was that a purchase that you thought I should have this because I'm an adultDave Dastmalchian (00:18:36):Or did you inherit it? No, we were moving here from the city and we were just both like, well, we need a dining set. And we went to the furniture store was the first time I went to like a real furniture store and they had a matching dining table and chairs with the, with a China cabinet and a, uh, something else. We've got three big pieces. It's all crappy furniture. It was a waste. It was expensive. And it was a waste of money because all furniture that's made past bef you know, since 1950 is crappy furniture, um, dining table. Well, it's big, but it's, it's really like wobbly. It's crappy. It's crappy. So I, I think I'm going to, maybe after the holidays, get rid of the China cabinet, whole King thing. Like it doesn't give me any joy to look at it. It doesn't give, it's just like, here's where we put all the crap that we use on Thanksgiving.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:19:33):Right? It's more of a storage. It's not a showcase for anything special. What you need to do is get so many snow Globes that then you've got you put those in there, maybe, but that's a huge, you don't really need maybe a different kind of case for the snow Globes.Dave Dastmalchian (00:19:48):Something like that would give me joy, some little bauble, something like that. It's just plates and vases and, and somebody who is in my family has started a collection of something for me that I don't care for. But it's like, you know how it is, the person really wants to collect something for you. And they pick something. They, they have something that they collect and then they go, well, would you like a different version of this thing? I collect it. And you know, and I remember saying once, like, Oh, that's pretty. And next thing I know I've got my, what she considers to be my version of her thing. This is not my mother. I have to feel like I have to say this because this is not my mother. And it's, it's stuff that I feel that I have to make sure is out for when this person comes to my house.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:20:43):Understood, understood. I don't, you know, I think everyone like dead in my family. So I, I, I get free from some of that, like, but I do. There's a part of me that goes, Oh, someone is thinking about you that's collecting something for you. It just, maybe they would ask them if they could collect. You know, I don't knowDave Dastmalchian (00:21:05):To me that the collecting impulse, I don't relate to it. I mean, with the exception of maybe that I like these pretty snow gloves, I I'm not, I don't collect anything. And my mother collects everything. She does. She does. She collects, she has a China pattern. She does a crystal pattern. She collects, um, she's a big reader. So she collects books. She, yeah,Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:21:35):I remember I remember the house on Wayne, right? And it was a duplex. It was a two floor. She had a lot of nice stuff. She had a lot of nice stuff.Dave Dastmalchian (00:21:44):It is, it's all very nice, but it's, it's stuff. It's a lot of stuff. And I'm just finding that. I'm not as into stuff. As I thought I was,Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:21:53):Well, I think the pandemic has done that to people too. It has increased for me. Anyway. It has increased my awareness that like, all this stuff is not going to save us from certain things.Dave Dastmalchian (00:22:06):Not from nothing. It's not going to save you from anything and you have to clean it and you have to store it and you have to move it. And you have to, you feel, for some reason you have to replace it. If it gets broken, like it's just a yoke, it's a yoke. And Aaron and I fantasize. When the kids leave, we're going to get a studio apartment. We're going to have no possessions. And we're going to just do whatever we want. That doesn't have anything to do with buying, maintaining, or storing stuff of anything.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:22:38):That's brilliant. I think that is a great plan. D my only caveat is please do it in California. That's all I have to say. Yes, yes.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:22:58):Today on I Survived theater school. We have the fancy friends, Dave Dastmalchian and John Hoogenakker. I call them fancy friends because that's what they are. They are fancy. They work. And they work all the time and they're delightful human beings literally think,Dave Dastmalchian (00:23:13):and they have fancy last name. I was making the episode art. I'm like, Oh, this is, of course these two have to have the longest, last name so that they really do. I've ever had. We'll just call him Dave. You guys have seen. Yeah. And you guys have seen them. I mean, not necessarily together, but, um, uh, Dave was his first film role was in, uh, the dark night. So he, I would love to have him back Sometime and ask about Heath ledger, because I bet that he's got a lot to tell about that anyway. So Dave has a, mostly a film career. He's also a screenwriter. He has written a few films that are excellent, including, um, Animals and, uh, All Creatures Here Below two excellent films. And John is a lot on television.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:24:07):Gotcha. Uh, he was on Jack Ryan as one of the big, big leads. And he, and they're in an outstanding film called Teacher together. So that's somethingDave Dastmalchian (00:24:18):Right. And the two of them wanted to do the interview together because they're such close friends and they shared a lot of memories. And it was interesting to have as it's our first duo. It was interesting to explore their friendship as a way that they both survived theater school. So please enjoy Dave, the small shin and John who can anchor.Dave Dastmalchian (00:24:40):You got to call her up again and ask her to do all right.Dave Dastmalchian (00:24:44):I'm going to make a note of that right now. Anyway. Congratulations, John and Dave, you survived theater school. No, not barely. You guys. I think you both had excellent theater school careers, but I'd like to hear it from you.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:25:06):Uh, w I'm so glad that you're our first duo that we've had on today. The fancy friends. And I wanted to know about your experience, like together as well as a part, but like my first question for you is, did you love each other right away?Dave Dastmalchian (00:25:22):I don't, I don't know. John, did youDave Dastmalchian (00:25:26):Well, for sure,Dave Dastmalchian (00:25:30):Gina the longest and by the way, so good to see you. It's only been 20 years like this. I mean, we've, we've messaged and emailed a lot, but Jesus, this is amazing. Oh my God. Uh, so I was roommates with Gina and we were very close and then I left school for a year. And so the school moves forward. Jen, you and Gita were in the same grade. You guys all moved forward. And when I came back, it was a whole new group of people to get to know. And John, um, was one of the first people that I knew when I got back. So I felt very out of place. And, um, it was hard to come into because it's such a competitive environment and it's such a, um, intense environment. And I was both competitive and intense. So to jump into the fire with a whole new group of people, to kind of, it's hard, cause you're posturing, you're sizing up, but at the same time, you're looking for connection.Dave Dastmalchian (00:26:27):You're looking for support and it's, it's such a conflict. And John, I'm not going to get emotional today. I swear to God, but it was like one of the first people that extended such, uh, a kind generous since he's got that, that, that inimitable,John Hoogenakker (00:26:46):I'm a cuddler.Dave Dastmalchian (00:26:47):sincerity, which is what makes him such a brilliant actor. But he had that like, look me in the eyes in class and like, Hey, he has a little bit of a draw. Like I'm really excited. You're here. And I want to get to know you and I hope we get to work together. And then we went and hung out at his apartment soon after that and maybe smoke something. This is recorded, sorry, John. And then we watched star Wars stuff together and that was our bond. So that's my version of this story.John Hoogenakker (00:27:16):Um, no, God, we, we had a lot of fun. I have old pictures of you and I, and Iyisha and, uh, snuggling ghanaba, um, you snuggling and which I'm going to send you guys. Um, but, uh, yeah, we, uh, jeez, I just remember, uh, I remember Dave's, um, it bullions from day one, his like drive in his, in his positive energy. And I think, um, that is the thing that ha that has, that has been such a, um, such a driving force in Dave's career, um, is that he just never stops. It comes down to energy and positivity, and he's constantly pumping that into the world. And I think Dave has known for many, many years that it, you know, that that kind of stuff comes back to you. Um, and I think I was drawn to that in Dave, uh, yeah, from the giddy-up, butGina Pulice (00:28:10):Also recognize somehow that he needed you to take on that stare you in the eye and tell him you want to get to know him vibe. Did you know that he felt overwhelmed coming back?John Hoogenakker (00:28:23):Uh, I D I think from my perspective, the thing that drew Dave and I, to one another was a sense that, you know, in the theater school at the time that we were all there was such a, um, there was so, uh, it was a lot of mind fuckery going on. And there was a lot of, um, I think a lot of us in the acting track, especially I know this was the case throughout the school wanted, um, positive reinforcement from teachers. And sometimes I think my perspective was that people were manufacturing emotions and things to achieve that positive reinforcement. And Dave, uh, just seemed to be Dave to me, which I really, really, uh, enjoyed and appreciated. And, um, yeah. And so I think that was, uh, that was, um, it was, it was Dave's, um, his, his sort of genuine vibe that I wasJen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:29:20):Both of you when I've run into you. I mean, you know, I don't, I live in California now, but I've seen you like at PR and Dave ed ran into you, one set of Starbucks in Chicago, the genuineness is unbelievable. So I, I think you're both fancy and I'm sort of sorry, starstruck, I, but when I, but there is sort of, both of you have this sort of face to face, like, look you in the eye, I'm going to have an actual conversation with you. And I think that makes you not only great, great actors, but what's more important to me is great human beings. And I, um, I don't know. I'm just so glad you guys found each other and that you're friends. It's like, no, it's not. That's how I feel. Yeah. That's how I feelDave Dastmalchian (00:30:06):The work and outside of our mutual, passionate love for the theater acting film, um, storytelling, character creation, cinema history, literature, like John. And I did kick it off immediately with a lot of, of, um, you know, kindred kind of passions for things which we all shared because we all were in that, that, that, that vortex. Um, and obviously we were drawn there because we had a passion for this stuff, but, um, you know, I've been through, uh, the ringer in my life outside of my acting career as well. And, and, and John was always one of the first people to show up and be there for me when I needed someone as well, which was you, you're not taught that in the, again, this is about surviving the theater school you're taught, um, that you're in the ensemble family mode during rehearsal. And it felt like kind of, um, during a production, but then it was right back to, you know, this really intensely bizarre, like John there's no better, I guess, adverb than mind fuckery of, um, and, and it was, it was, um, I'm very grateful, um, and, uh, many great, true friendships came out of that time because when you go through something that intense and that trying, but we, um, we, we, I would love to tell a quick story if I can, because we were kind of, we, weren't kind of, we were absolutely ups. We were in trouble a lot, um, because it's no mystery that I had a pretty intense substance abuse problem in college. And John had a pretty serious attitude problem in college. And, uh, neither of us dealt well with authority, although we loved being directed, which has always been a paradox with us. Like we love great directors that get in and like help guide us and shape things. But at the same time, we are the first people to, you know, get our backs up sometimes. And I, um, and I remember John and I were so frustrated that some of the people like he, he, there was this, this feeling of like posturing or presentation that always felt in authentic to us. And we wanted, you know, Chicago, we want to rub real dirt on our faces and smashed glass, and we're going to get in there. And, and we were doing a scene together from, um, uh, Glen Gary, Glen Ross for, um, second year, uh, scene study work with Joe [inaudible]. And it was so intense. It was the Moss era now seen at the Chinese restaurant. John is just needling into me to like, you're gonna, you're gonna get in on this heist, or I'm going to ruin your life. And we loved, like, we got into that so much. It was all space work. And we're in generally John and I were in, I was either in rave clothes or John was in some tide by Bob Marley thing. And, um, and so we had to speak special guests coming to the theater school who was going to do a scene study, uh, workshop. And it was F Murray Abraham. And, um, I'll never forget. We were all so excited, big fans. We go, they did it at a separate location on campus.John Hoogenakker (00:33:07):And it was where it was history of dramatic lit I think,Dave Dastmalchian (00:33:12):where nobody cheated. And he, um, he Through the fees that he was working on so quickly, and he was getting frustrated, like stop with the, stop with the presentation, like w Let's work these.John Hoogenakker (00:33:28):And he was also, he was also like not giving, like he would give a really incisive note and then would be like, all right, now, fuck off and do better in life!Dave Dastmalchian (00:33:38):He didn't want over preparation. He wanted this to be like a malleable Play-Doh Eve kind of moment where we could, so we were not part of that event, John and I were just sitting in the back row, probably like, just like, Whoa, this is so cool, dude. Like "that's F Murray Abraham!"]. And he looked to the crowd. He's like, is that all you got? Cause they had prepared. I don't remember four or five scenes.John Hoogenakker (00:34:01):Yeah. It was like, it looks like, well, it was like two from each classroom. And, and then we had like a break and the teachers were kind of looking around at each other, like, well, that's all I had. And that's all I got Dave, you went toDave Dastmalchian (00:34:15):Slowik Turned to me and John and slowok. goes, "You guys!"Speaker 7 (00:34:18):You guys, can we do it, John? Can we do it here? And John's like, yeah, let's do it.Dave Dastmalchian (00:34:25):What else is in costumes that they've got their props that John and I hopped up with? Uh, we, we may do, right. We got a bottle that we brought from someone else's seen some cups. Um, and we jumped up there and we did this. We did the scene where F Murray had recently done the piece or he was familiar enough with it that he could kind of jump in and, and do with this. But IDave Dastmalchian (00:34:45):Was so proud that day, even Though I knew what F ups we were. And even though I knew that I was, I knew that the work we were putting into and the discipline and the, and the, and the love we were putting into building these characters together and how much we loved playing off one another was, I knew in that moment, this is something I'm going to do with this guy for the rest of my life. And sure enough, we've gone on to do films, two films together, outside of school, we continue to collaborate. Um, I knew in that moment though, I was like, this guy I'm holding onto him for the rest of my life.John Hoogenakker (00:35:18):Dude, I wanna, I want to jump in because that was such, that was, first of all, it was, it was an amazing experience that we were like, we were like greyhounds, just ready to run. And, and we were also, we didn't realize that. So I'm going to, we talk about surviving the theater school. I don't know where to start, but more importantly, I don't know where I should stop. So you guys got to shut me up. Um, so, so, uh, I ran, I got that bottle from my roommate who drank Jamison, like all the time. So I ran across because we were in Seton hall, not Seton hall, but a sanctuary. And I got the bottle and I came back and Dave and I were getting ready and we do the, we do the scene and I knew, we knew that F Murray was going to just like, give us a note and dismiss us. So he gave us this note. And the w the one thing was I had been breaking up this paragraph that I was giving to Dave, you know, kind of feeling my way through it. And she kind of schmacting him and he was like, you know, this David Mamet gives you all of the direction you need with the punctuation, like Shakespeare. And you need to just drive through without taking a break, because that's going to give you more pay off at the end of the, at the end of the scene. And Dave and I looked at each other and we just started doing the scene before he could dismiss us. So we jumped right into it. And he had gone through all the people in our class that had been put forward. He had gone through upperclassmen, and that was the first group, Dave and I were the first two that had the audacity. Did you jump, take the note and jump back in? And we'll when we finished, he was like, that is preparation.Dave Dastmalchian (00:37:01):[inaudible] mother.Gina Pulice (00:37:05):I love that. I love that because what you're telling me in that is you each made a decision where our company is called Undeniable. So you made it, you made a decision to be undeniable. You made a decision to not let him, I'm sure everybody would. I, I'm not sure anybody else in that situation would have been willing to get up and go on and not let him deny you, not let him interrupt you. And you were like 18, 19 years old, which is like even more. So you, you both mentioned mind fuckery, which is a very evergreen theme on our podcast. And I would love to hear a little bit more about as you look back at this time in your life now, uh, and you imagine, cause some of our professors were probably the age then that we are now, what do you make of some of this? How have you reconciled some of what you now consider to be mind. Great. Did it feel like a mind fuckery then, or does it just look that way in the rear view,Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:38:09):I'm just going to add a caveat, a quick caveat in that I teach at the theater school. So, um, I, and, and I, um, I'm trying to change the culture there a little bit. And so, um, I, I just always am really hyper aware that like we want, um, say whatever you want, that's what I want to say, whateverDave Dastmalchian (00:38:36):The Vincentian Brotehrs called in the legal team, man, they're coming, you're talking to John and Hey, don't worry. You go first because I know.John Hoogenakker (00:38:52):Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I have no idea what I'm going to say. We're on a journey of discovery. No. First of all, to your point, Jen, like I know John and I admire him greatly. I feel like there's gotta be five of him in the planet to achieve all this stuff that he's achieved. And the theater school of today bears little, if any, resemblance to the theater school that Dave and I and you guys, uh, attended. Um, and that said, I don't feel like, uh, the mind fuckery that I, um, felt I was, uh, that I received was the result of, uh, some jerk cadre of teachers sitting around in a circle and being like, who can we -? You know, who can we shit on today? I don't think that's how it was. I think the difference was there was a, a strong, a greater focus on academia. At that point. It was like just giving your life to an institution and, and a philosophy and an approach to doing theater that was, uh, at that time intensely cloistered. Um, didn't allow us to kind of step outside of the school. And we all, uh, to a certain extent kind of knew what we were signing up for. When we came on board, I had been in ROTC when I was in high school. Um, I had competed in debate, so I kind of dealt with a lot of that stuff at the beginning. And I just kind of felt like when I was at theater school, as Dave said, I had a real attitude problem because I was like, I had to take on a lot of debt to go to that school. Um, my family came together and did everything they could to help me, but I, I graduated with a lot of debt. Um, and I kind of felt like, you know what? This is, I'm paying you, but like, we get to have a conversation about this. I know you're the, I know you're the pro I know you've been doing this your entire adult life, but I have questions. And I feel like I'm due an answer and a considered answer. And you don't get to just shut me down because I asked a question and I'm 19 and you're 54. Um, cause I'm here taking on a lot of personal debt that I'm going to carry into my adult life. And you owe me answers. Um, th th that's just, let's just call that an opening, uh, Sally and Dave, you can share it for a little bit,Dave Dastmalchian (00:41:03):Like, you know, it was the perfect place for me to train. The culture was a utterly complicated, complex filled with nuance. Lots of gray area came from a tradition steeped in some really, uh, important and impressive theater movements that were more, um, militaristic and disciplinary and really, um, intense. I'll always be grateful for the tools that I picked up in the theater school to this day, saved me on an almost daily basis sets because the awareness it gave me of my body and my voice, and, you know, the depth of my psychology to be able to solve problems on the fly and repeat, you know, emotional recreations, um, was really important. I will say that there were conflicting philosophies and approaches, which is, I think very healthy. One of the things I loved was that nobody said this is the theater school way. It was like, here's the Joe Slowik way. Here's the Bella Itkin way. Here's the David Avcollie way, here's the Rick Murphy way. You go to these classes, you see what works for you. You see where you're doing the best work, and then you have to grow up quickly and you have to be prepared for this dog, eat dog world of the arts that you're going to be thrown into. Once you graduate here, there is no, you know, um, kind of kind or gentle or entirely psychologically easy way to prepare somebody for the, the, the, the meat grinder that is the show business. And so for all those reasons, I was incredibly grateful. I think there were, there was a lack of oversight when it came to, um, mental wellness with some of the faculty, and I'll always hold them responsible for the fact that they allowed sexual relationships between professors and students. I think it's entirely inappropriate for people in that kind of power, um, in there.John Hoogenakker (00:42:53):It's unbelievable when you look back on it.Dave Dastmalchian (00:42:57):When I think back on the fact that I knew there were teachers that we were meant to listen to and respect and regard and trust with our deepest parts of ourselves who were seduced and having sex with students that breaks my heart. And, and I, I would tell them that to their faces today, if I could see them, but I hope they'll watch. Um, and I also think that, uh, that there was some abusive behavior, um, that I'll never understand other than they were human beings who, um, you know, who were just people that, um, were, uh, that, that, that did, that did some things that may, I like to, I like to believe that they thought they might've been helping push us, or, but some of the things that were either said or done, I go, man, that was, I can remember sitting with Gina one time. And I mean, I I'm a pretty emotionally fragile guy, but I was like on the verge of, of tears, of, of something that had happened with one of the professors that we both really admired, but also we both really kind of feared and, um, and it was just like why, but, but in all, I'm grateful because I'm not one of those people I'll run into people from the theater school who are just carrying so much damage from that time. And I'm so grateful that when I look back on my time at the theater school, in all honesty, it's with a lot of positive, it is I really go, wow. That was an amazing experience. Yes. I have anger, frustration pains about certain things that happen that I can't believe, but I do feel, I feel like it really prepared me for the world in which I'm working now.John Hoogenakker (00:44:37):I totally agree. And I, I, you know, I look back on that time and I kind of feel like what, you know, when I look at things that had that I feel like have gone pear shaped and that I was a part of, I always try and think about what, what could I have done better? And for me, I look back on that period. And I think that I was not, uh, emotionally mature enough or perhaps mature enough in general, to take on board everything that I could have learned, uh, as an actor. And I'm talking about like, uh, technique wise in that program, because I was so emotionally just kind of bombarded with. So, so much of it is, is subjective in the, in the beginning. And we're going into a career where, um, you may go up against four other people in your type, or maybe not in your type who were phenomenal actors, and you may get that job, or you may not. Um, and there could be any number of reasons why you did or you didn't and kind of trying to prepare a child. And let's be honest, if you're not in the master's track, you're still a child, um, for the realities and the emotional rigors of, uh, of what could end up being a career in a full life, doing that stuff would be the greatest act of compassion that an educational center could impart to a child. And I feel like the theater school was like that wasn't even a thing. Um, and, um, you know, I mean, not understanding why, you know, everybody probably makes the case of like, Oh, gee whiz. I was so talented in my hometown. And then I went to the theater school and I was like, Oh my God, everybody's talented. What am I going to do? But you still in class with folks, uh, you know, all these hours a day, all these days a week. And some people are, uh, become darlings. Some people do not. Some people back then, um, were kept on after the first year, after the second year. And some people were not, and there were, there were there, there were like major head scratchers about that, like to go back and to have completed two years and to be respected in the eyes of your peers and presumably in the eyes of your teachers. And then to get that, that letter that, you know, maybe this isn't for you to be able to, to make that determination in another person's life. And in that way is just, it's, it's astounding. That that was what we signed up for. And I'll tell ya, uh, I remember I'll never forget. That was not really made clear. Um, prior to coming to the theater school, like actually sitting there on the first day, I remember sitting cross-legged on the floor and listening to kind of talking, this is the greatest city in the mind of God and His being like, you know, some of you will Graduate. Most of you will not. I remember like, wow, that's pretty intense. Like I was not so clear on the whole half of you are going to get cut the first year and then half the remaining are going to get cut. The second year, that to me was like deeply, uh, ingenuous disingenuous, because what was really happening. And again, the school is a completely different school. Now they've dealt with this stuff. What was happening was they were bringing in free labor that was actually paying them shitloads of money to be free labor, and then kicking them to the curb. They, I think had a pretty good idea at audition, which of these four kids were actually going to make it to graduation. And I think we had some idea of that, but we were literally pitted against one another. I'll give you one example and then I'll shut up and let Dave go again. Um, we did, uh, an intro in second year, lot called Laughing Wild, and it was by Christopher Durang and it's a two-person so two hander, it's a man and it's a woman. And what they did was they cast four males and something like nine females and the director never set the lines. So every night it was literally these kids who still had not been invited back for their third year and could still be cut in a fucking verbal knife fight everyJen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:49:11):This is fucking crazy! Yeah.John Hoogenakker (00:49:13):And you know, it was the director. Like I still had really long hair at that point. Pier said Jason Pierce had really long hair. Uh, Bryan Sharp had really long hair. And I think it was Hunter, uh, Andre. Um, and it was kind of like Ilko didn't really like our long hair. So it was like, you guys all have to look the same. That's what I'm going for. So we all got our haircut and then we commenced to like fighting over these lines. And what we ultimately did was probably pretty cool to look at, but it was also a hot mess. Um, you know, cause he'sJen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:49:49):Totally, no, I mean, I, I think it begs the, so I guess the bigger question here for me and I don't know what you guys think, but, um, th 17, should we be doing this? I, I really, I mean, I know for me, I'm, I'm grateful as hell I went there. I was, I was cut and then asked back, it was a weird thing. I got a letter and then another letter. And then, um, so as a 17 year old or sick, I was 16. Like, this is so much mind fuckery inherent in the system. And w when we went there, I mean, we're all glad we went, but like man kids, I don't know that we should be, if I would, if I had a kid, I don't know that I want my kid to be engaged in a verbal knife fight at 17 with Hunter, Andre. I I'm just, I don't know, but that's, that's a big question.Dave Dastmalchian (00:50:41):I wouldn't put my kids though on the track right now to be actors because of that. But the reality, the harsh reality is that the business of theater and the business of film and television needs 20, 21, 22 year old actors. So to throw them into the best training you can at 18, 19, 20, 21, it sucks. But it's also like it's an exceptional calling to choose the path of the artist. And it's, it's a, it's a, it's more, you know, not to be, you know, uh, whatever ridiculous about it, but it, it, it, it, it is like it's, it's, so it's such an unfair, the world is so unfair. As we know, Jesus Christ turn on the news right now, the world is an unfair place, but the arts are so unfair. And it's like, if someone's going to it's, it's such a complicated question. Cause I do think like right at like 18, maybe that's the earliest. If my kid said, dad, I want to do what you do. I'd say you do as much community theater in high school theater and drama, as you can speech debate, blah, blah, blah. I'm not taking them to a Hollywood audition until they're 18. Um, and if they want to pursue it, I would want them to go study and train somewhere. Like what the theater school is now, you know, at 18. But yeah, it's really complicated. It is. Yeah.John Hoogenakker (00:52:09):I will say that, you know, I was, I was just going to throw this in. When, when I graduated, I got a job working at Chicago Shakespeare, which was started like a couple months after graduation. And I got on stage with, um, Kevin Goodall, Lisa Dodson, Greg Finkler, Brad Armacost, um, all these amazing, uh, classic classic Chicago actors, um, stalwart Chicago actors. And it was the first, uh, it was the first show in the, in their new space. Um, so they had all these great people in the cast. So I got so lucky to be, you know, a messenger in that play. Um, but that was when my personal education in the theater like really started. And that was when I saw like these Titans, uh, kind of dealing with the humdrum rejection of, yeah, I went for another one at PR I didn't get it. Yeah. But it went to blah, blah, blah. And he's a great dude, which is a thing I've always loved about Chicago. It's like, you know, you get to a certain age, it's always the same folks in the room and you kind of are cheering for everybody. You sit in that waiting room, especially PR and it's, it's always a reunion of friends. Um, but I, I, so when I talk to people, parents of child, actors on sets who want to know what I would advise them to do, if these were my kids like Dave, I mean, I kind of, I'm kind of like, you know, if they are still interested in this, when they're 18, I would take all the money that you've saved for college. If you've saved any and just fund their apartment in Los Angeles or Chicago or New York, like start them off when they're that early, because they're four years ahead of the rest of the pack when they graduate. And they will have spent that four years learning at the feet of actual working professionals.Gina Pulice (00:54:08):Yeah. Well, the truth is when somebody wants to be this from the time they're five years old, which probably all of us did, there's no stopping them. I mean, we've heard stories of parents saying, please don't call, study theater, please do something else. And they're going to do what they're going to do, but so let's bring it back to when you guys decided you wanted to go to a conservatory for college. Was that something you knew all along? Did you figure it out later? How did you pick DePaul?Dave Dastmalchian (00:54:37):For me, it was, it was, uh, it was the, it was fate. It was, um, you know, it was truly fate. I mean, it was, it was like a miracle of God. And to me, God works through teachers. It was the power of teachers. I, um, my parents were a mess throughout my, you know, junior high and high school years where I was very much on my own in a lot of regards. And I was a high functioning, um, academically, you know, in the, in the, in the, in a good tier. Um, but I was really, uh, excelling in both speech and football. Those were kind of my two strengths coming through high school. And I didn't see the path towards, um, the academic dreams that I had for college, um, in, in speech or acting or drama for God's sake, but I did through football. So my dream was going into my senior year of high school. I was going to be as yoked as possible, play the best game I could play, get us to state, get a scholarship to go to a better school than I could go to that I knew was at my hands with the amount of money that my mom and I had. And with that scholarship, I was going to try and become a high school football coach who, who ran the drama club. That was my dream for myself, two teachers, my speech coach and our drama teacher said to sat down with me separately and said, you have something you, we will help you if you're, if you're afraid of applying to like arts programs or theater or following a track and drama and hearing that was mindblowing. And they did, they helped me do the research. I looked at SMU, NYU and DePaul. I did a regional audition and then ultimately up to Chicago and my audition was in front of John Jenkins and John Watts. I'll never forget. I was there in cutoff, Jean shorts, a tie dye, Janis Joplin t-shirt and my football socks. And there was a bunch of kids in leotards and jazz shoes who knew what they meant when they were saying things. I did it, my, my monologue was completely wrong. They said, don't do a dialect that I did, uh, a scene from Equis. And then they, we said, don't do a dialect. And I luckily remembered does a tiger wear a neck tie? And I just threw that out there. And it was fate. It was God, it was whatever you choose to believe. But then I got a letter, uh, very soon after that, that, and I was miserable thinking about playing four years of college football. That's important to note, I did not want to do that, but I knew it was a means to an end. My brother was a collegiate athlete and I knew the demands of that and that, that was going to be my life for four years. But for me to get the education I wanted, it was worth it. Um, and I got this letter that not only had I been invited to participate in the theater school program, but I had also been given this, um, this, this huge scholarship, uh, called the Stanley andJohn Hoogenakker (00:57:35):Good for you, Dave, we're all happy for you.Dave Dastmalchian (00:57:39):That's my story. I'm done as John, just going into the story about the buckets. Hey, I left school with a massive amount of Debt as well because my scholarship did not cover living expenses. That's why I had to leave theater school for a year to goJohn Hoogenakker (00:57:58):Dave. Yeah. Dave wanted to live in a four bedroom, three bathroom.Dave Dastmalchian (00:58:03):Gina can tell you where we lived on Lill. What was Our landlord's name?Gina Pulice (00:58:11):Earl Pionke!John Hoogenakker (00:58:15):was Lill, the place. It was like right around the corner from healing earth resources? Like, yeah, that's the one where like a couple like, or an adjacent building had the, uh, the deck collapsed right there. Yeah.Dave Dastmalchian (00:58:31):And the tanks? remember the Space Time tanks, John. The floating tanks?John Hoogenakker (00:58:33):what's that?Dave Dastmalchian (00:58:33):Didn't we go do that together? The tanks, the, that the, the deprivation. The sensory deprivation ones?John Hoogenakker (00:58:38):Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, right there. One of the oldest ones in the city is right there. Yeah. Thanks for, thanks for a, no dude. I'm so happy. So that'd be for you for getting a scholarship to DePaul. That's great. Um, good for you. Um, I didn't get a scholarship. I, uh, no, we, no, I totally very similar story except I was not going to be an athlete, uh, ever. Um, I was in, uh, I was, uh, in speech and debate in high school. I had not done theater since I was a child, like a younger child, uh, because I got, um, braces and my dad who was a, a local actor in Charlotte, um, was like, there's no, there's no market for a kid with braces. So then I was, um, I think at about 10th grade, I started competing in humorous interpretation, which Dave? Yeah. Um, and, and I did really well in that. And so then when I got to, uh, senior year, the drama teacher and I'd never taken drama at the theater at the, uh, high school, you know, she would, uh, she would accompany the speech team on debate trips. She reached out and she was like, Hey, you know, if you want to take this class, you can take the senior level drama class. And she, and my speech coach, uh, Barbara Miller said, you know, you should, you should check out some theater schools, see where you can study. And we, I looked into like, uh, a Julliard I was really interested in because I knew that Robin Williams had gone there, but I think it was more expensive to audition there. And I somehow missed the whole boat on, you know, I think a lot of people, I know Kelly, my wife, um, auditioned at, uh, in Chicago, but for a bunch of schools all at once. Um, and I, uh, I came in like late January, early February, uh, and we stayed, it was going to be a big deal for my family. So we stayed at the Palmer house. Um, and I went and I, again like, like Dave, I was surrounded by all these kids that just seemed so focused. And so like tuned in to this world that all of a sudden seemed very foreign to me and completely unattainable. And like, I was just completely a fish out of water. And, um, and I did, uh, my, my drama teacher had given me a monologue that was, you know, gonna be probably like, does a tire tire wear a neck tie or something, you know, appropriate for the location for the venue. And I didn't, you know, I, we had done, um, a musical called runaways and there was a monologue and runaways that I thought, well, it just really spoke to me. It was about a, a young kid whose mother had passed away. And he was kind of like just mourning her. And I remembered my drama teacher being like, well, it's your life? Good luck. And, um, and I came, came to the school and we did the whole, like, they let us through warmups, which was bizarre. That was Patrice, I think. Um, and then I did my monologue for like Betsy, I believe, and maybe John and possibly bill Brown. Um, and, uh, and I left completely dejected and I told my dad, I was like, well, that's not going to happen. Um, you know,Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (01:02:06):So I have to interrupt and say that everyone we talk to, I am not kidding you. Every single human I've talked to says, I left that place after my audition feeling like, well, I don't, I think I bombed, But no one I've talked to has been like, I nailed that.John Hoogenakker (01:02:26):Well, that's, you know, I that's so, uh, indicative of the way, like the vibe at the time, the teachers weren't like, they weren't there to coddle you and be able to good job. You've really nailed it. I think you're going to go Places said, no DePaul teacher ever. No, no, no. They certainly, certainly they do now. But, uh, but yeah, so we left and I had forgotten my watch. Cause, you know, you had to like all of a sudden, like I don't, I think I just barely remembered to bring sweat pants or something like that. Um, and, uh, so I forgot my watch. So my dad was like, I'm sure you did find bud. And so like the next day or whatever, he calls Melissa Meltzer and he's like, Hey Melissa, I'm wondering, did you guys find a watch? Um, cause John, he lost a watch. You didn't, you didn't find a watch. Huh? Okay. All right. Well, uh, thank you. And then she was like, so how does John feel like he did? And my dad was like, Oh, well, he bombed it. He did very well. I just wanted to make sure we got that watch before we Charlie. And, uh, and she was like, yeah, he's one of you we're sending out a couple, uh, a couple letters of admission right now or whatever acceptance right now. And he's one of them and I just could not believe it. And, um, yeah, it was, it was really, really great. But again, I had no idea what I was signing up for, because if it wasn't DePaul, it was going to be Appalachian state, um, or community college in Charlotte because I mean, I had, I had, uh, I was in AP classes and I had done well on my SATs, but I was not a focused student otherwise. And, uh, didn't have the scores to get into state or Carolina or any of the vaunted, uh, universities in my home state.Gina Pulice (01:04:18):According to my research, you guys did at least two shows together. Uh, uh, yeah, right. Um, I got the Blues and Peter pan, Peter pan,Dave Dastmalchian (01:04:33):The, uh, we did the, um, uh, uh, Glengarry Glen Ross scene together. And then our senior year when we were all very frustrated with the, with the, with the, with the plays that had been mostly, there was some really cool plays that were selected for our fourth year, but we were, we were frustrated collectively John, his wife, Kelly, our friend, Dennis Zack, a whole group of us got together. And we put on our own production of white check. Uh, we worked together, uh, doing that, uh, outside of school and performed at a coffee shop nearby because we were determined to do challenging work that was going to actually give us a chance to do something. So, yeah. But while we were those first four years, and then in the year, since we've done three things together probably or four, yeah,Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (01:05:25):teacher was amazing. Teacher was a good,Dave Dastmalchian (01:05:27):thank you. Thank you. I was so excited when, um, we got John, uh, it's just putting him into anything is going to elevate it. As you guys know you watch any TV show, any movie, any play, you name it. John comes into something he's going to elevate it. But I knew that that relationship I needed that character that I played in teacher had nobody else to ground him. He had nobody else to clean too. He had nobody else to like tu tu tu, tu, tu tu, you know, make me feel any sense of, of my, the characters, much needed humanity for the audience to get on board with him in those moments that John and I got. And John did a lot of stuff that magically woke up. It was a great script, but man, John took it to the, a much, a greater level, but just which is the magic he does. He did the same thing in animals. When I said, we've got to please be in my movie, please. I knew what he would do and sure as he did it, he walked in and everybody was just like, I mean, it's one of the best scenes of a movie that I'm very proud of. It's a 90 minute film filled with scenes that I love, but that is the scene I've probably gone back to, uh, more than any. And I go, God, really proud of the writing I did there, but what he did with little nuanced moments, I've, I've learned a lot watching my friend onstage and on, on, on set and I will continue to, I also watch everything he does obviously because he is my friend, but also because he gets to do a lot of really cool stuff. And, um, but I learned a lot. I learned a lot from, from you, John.John Hoogenakker (01:07:07):I feel the same way about you, man. You, I got to say, Dave has always been an inspiration to me because of, as I mentioned at the beginning of our talk because of the positivity that he puts out into the world. And Dave, you know, as he mentioned earlier, uh, went through the ringer with substance abuse. And, um, I think it's less than 7% of people, uh, who, who have been where you were, uh, ever come back. Um, and so to be one of those people who not just survived, but who thrived in an already incredibly challenging industry, um, is just absolutely astounding. And to, and to continually go back to the well and create, be a force of creativity and, you know, your own engine and guiding your own ship, um, while being, uh, you know, a partner and a father is, um, I, I feel so lucky that I've gotten to lean on you for inspiration and to call you for adviceDave Dastmalchian (01:08:17):Or, you know, it's wonderful. Like it's, I'm so grateful and that's another thing I'm so I'll always thank God for the theater school because of John Hoogenakker, and so many people that have been instrumental in my life. And I think it's important to note too, as far as the friendships that were forged in that time, um, you asked earlier too, there was some, obviously there were some teachers that taught me some wonderful techniques and skills, but also really hurt my heart in some certain ways. But that was it wouldn't be fair to, to neglect and not point out that like I'll never forget it. If there was one person who actually did take time to try, I felt like in her way to teach us ways of coping was Phyllis for me, she talked to me a lot about meditation. She introduced me to some books that were really instrumental to my journey, um, and like really wacky, like psychedelic stuff that I was really invested in thinking about at the time and really cool ways of trying to process depression. I didn't, I wasn't diagnosed at that time and I wasn't getting the proper help that I needed for my depression, but that was really, I I'm so grateful, uh, as well as, you know, the encouragement that someone like her showed, she was a needed angel at the time for me, um, in a dark place. Um, and bridges, I mean, I know he wasn't, um, you know, uh, faculty, he was staff, but that guy, um, recognized and saw some stuff that no one else was willing to address in my self-destruction. And he showed up for me way outside and above and beyond the, the, the roll call of whatever his payroll was or required of himJohn Hoogenakker (01:10:03):And his door was Always open. And as a side note, he attended your wedding. I bel

Julia DeWitt spent most of 2020 at a Zen Buddhist monastery and is currently pursuing a master's degree in social work. So...why is she on the Autonomous Creative? Because for the prior eight years, she had an incredibly successful career in podcasting. I met Julia in 2012, while she was l interning at “Snap Judgement,” and I was working on my book, Out on the Wire. In this episode, Julia walks me through the last eight years, filling in the blanks on how she rocketed from intern to senior producer. And most interestingly, why she decided to leave it all behind. Though Julia ultimately pivoted away from creative work, her quest to prioritize the work most meaningful to her is familiar. We discuss the challenges of walking away from a career — and identity — you've invested so much energy in, and Julia explains why she considers her past work a necessary “honing.” We also examine how outside forces influence art, whether it's pressure from the market or feedback from editors and collaborators. When should you make compromises and when should stand your ground? More from the episode... In the early days of her podcasting career, how did Julia go from an eager outsider to producer at one of the hottest podcasts? How did she find the courage to put herself out there and make connections? Julia shares some the conflicts arise when telling other people's stories when producing stories for podcasts like "Snap Judgement." Julia tells the hilarious story behind her infamous anonymous phone chat story "The Superchat," and what it taught her about being clear with her personal boundaries that feeds into her relationships and work today. We discuss how external forces affect creative work. Are they innately problematic? How can you stay true to your vision while finding market success? After building a hugely success career, when and why did Julia realize her career in podcasting was no longer fulfilling? "I became interested in more parts of my life than my career." — How sobriety and Zen Buddhism prompted Julia's massive career pivot. What is the underlying thread that connects Julia's passion for storytelling with her new career path in social work? Julia looks back on her career in podcasting: "Those things are exactly what needed to happen so that I can understand this next career move.” We get real about the personal toll of career pivots, including how to cope when your identity is deeply rooted in past work. Additional links: The Superchat: https://podcasts.apple.com/is/podcast/the-superchat/id84389707?i=1000237939720 Rocky: https://www.npr.org/2015/09/18/441446074/rocky Lefty Disco: https://www.thirdcoastfestival.org/feature/lefty-disco Out on the Wire: https://jessicaabel.com/out-on-the-wire/The Autonomous Creative is brought to you by Authentic Visibility: marketing for creatives who (think they) hate marketing. Learn more here!

God declares us righteous, which gives us unshakable security in the face of tremendous suffering.

This is an URGENT message for today! Let's change what is happening right now! The world is a safe place, you guys (I KNOW, I KNOW... lately it feels and looks like it's the end of days. It's scary), but there's more to it. The world is also a loving, friendly place. The world is a small town and everyone is your friend. And there are all kinds of friends, each one with various amounts of capacities and areas of focused abilities and ways about them. In this episode, we provide a key to changing the world. We talk about how one man can create chaos and make millions of people experience terror. We talk about how one person also has the power to make everything GREAT! That one person is you. That one person is us. We talk about Nikola Tesla and remind each other of how truly powerful we are and how we can TOTALLY change the world in the midst of terrible things happening. We've been doing different episodes, "The Quiet Friend", "The Weird Friend", all the different types of friends. Right. And they weave in and out in all directions. If you step away (or up) far away enough in your awareness of the world, you may notice how it's interwoven everything really is. #Galvanized, #Electric, #powerful, #light, #spark, #change, #electromagnetic, #hotstuff, #ignition, #theworldisasafeplace, #akindworld, #afriendlyworld, #ourfriendlyworldwithfawnandmatt, #betterstrongertogetherTune in to this episode and also to a previous episode when you are done, and you can hear a great reminder from our friend Rachel Chevalier. to contact Fawn and Matt: https://www.ourfriendlyworldpodcast.com/contact/ to support our show:https://www.buymeacoffee.com/friendlyspace previous episode from last March: https://www.ourfriendlyworldpodcast.com/unseen-forces-w-special-guest-rachel-chevalier/ Galvanized Transcript [00:00:00] Fawn: Welcome back. Welcome back, everybody. [00:00:02] Matt: Hello! [00:00:03] Fawn: Welcome to our friendly world. The world is a safe place, you guys, but there's more to it. The world is also a loving, friendly place. The world is a small town and everyone is your friend. And there are all kinds of friends, each one with various amounts of capacities and areas of focused abilities and ways about them.

Slideshow for this message is available Introduction John 17 Today we eavesdrop on one of the greatest recorded prayers ever prayed. And we are going to tackle this great prayer in two sermons which feels to me like trying to eat an elephant in two bites. Now, if you are a normal human being, your brain is going to rebel and resist some of the concepts in the message today. The concepts are not intuitive. What is supposed to be beautiful, attractive and deeply satisfying may not appear that way to you. In fact, you may even feel offended. You may just be confused or disoriented. But don't trust that reaction. Just because something doesn't initially look good doesn't mean it isn't good. Our feelings sometimes lie to us. For example, when I first heard about the concept of sushi, I thought it was the most disgusting thought ever. Raw fish? Are you kidding. That's gross. But people kept on telling me it was amazing. I kept looking at it from a distance wondering what I was missing. And once I finally dove in and was able to open my mind to it, it's not just palatable, it's now my favorite food. What this passage does is teach us to love the glory of God. Maybe you already love it, or you are learning to love it, or maybe you looks at it from a distance like raw fish. Why would I want that? That's okay because by default, our spiritual palette isn't adjusted to it. We say things like: Isn't that kind of arrogant of God to want his own glory? God is jealous for his own glory? What kind of monster says that? Of maybe you say, well if we are allowed to talk like that, then if I'm honest, I kind of like it when I get glory. Can I be jealous for my own glory? But believe me, loving the glory of God is so much more delicious than loving your own glory. And let me give you an example of how that can be. Just give me 3 minutes. Here's a video of our sun. Every second of this video is one day of footage. The sun is amazing: There's so much power here, it just boggles the mind. It's about the equivalent of 1,820,000,000 of the most power nuclear bombs ever invented every second. Temperatures inside the Sun can reach 15 million degrees Celsius The sun generates this intense solar wind which is a stream of charged particles that travel around 450 km per second through the solar system. And of course the size! This one star is very large compared to our earth. About a million earth's could fit inside the sun. But it's very small compared to other stars. And of course that's just one star in our galaxy that contains 200 billion stars. And of course that's just one galaxy in the estimated 200-400 billion galaxies. A star is an amazing thing. But what IS a star? In C.S. Lewis' story, “The voyage of the Dawn Treader” there's a conversation about the nature of stars. In C.S. Lewis' world of Narnia stars are very different than the stars in our world. And so one of the characters named Eustace points this out. Eustace says, “in our world, a star is a huge ball of flaming gas.” And then there's this powerful line, “Even in your world, my son, that is not what a star is but only what it is made of.” What is a star? In other words, what is it for? What's its purpose. What is the meaning of a star? The Bible has an answer for this: Psalm 19 A star is glory-beacon proclaiming the power of God. When I look at a star, I realize that there's a massive God out there and it isn't me. There is a being out there with serious glory. When we look at a star and we think how massive and powerful that is and we think, “God made that?” Suddenly he has GLORY in our thinking. He has gravity in our mind. If God is that powerful, he matters. His opinion ought to heavily factor into my decision making. Right? What is a star? It's a glory-flashlight. It's a glory-syringe to inject the towering majesty of God into our imagination. That's what a star IS. That's the design, purpose, meaning. Now the reason I bring this up is because most of us can appreciate the glory of God, the WEIGHT of God by looking at stars. A star is a glory-beacon. That's what it is. We like that kind of glory. But at the end of the day, that's what everything is. Why does anything exist? Why is anything the way it is? Why is there suffering? Why is there mountains? Why is there simplicity and complexity. Because in the end, it all brings God glory. The Bible teaches us that all of history, all of activity, our life, the birds, whales, our life, everything points to the glory of God, is about the glory of God. Passage Today Now the passage today teaches us this: The very pinnacle display of the glory of God, the very height, the towering peak of the glory of God is not stars or galaxies or supernovas or black holes as amazing as they are. It's not whales, the human GNOME. The very pinnacle of the glory of God is the love of God. And the most GLORIOUS display of the love of God is the cross. So, when we look to the cross, and see the supreme, ultimate love of Christ, we are beholding the most brilliant, blinding glory point in all the universe. The love of God for sinful men is like a giant star that shines forth the glory of God. It's massive, bright, and eye-watering. It's the loudest proclamation of the weight, splendor and GRAVITY of who God IS. That's what God IS. God IS LOVE and THAT is GLORIOUS. That's the main point of the high priestly prayer. So first, it's important that you just see that with your own eyes! Now you can see the glory of God everywhere in this section. But we need to see that the glory mentioned here is linked to the love of God for us via the cross. And the way to do that is to note something we pointed out clear back in the beginning of John. All through the book of John, Jesus' life is threatened in some way or some sort of expectation is thrust upon him and Jesus keeps saying, “my hour has not yet come” 2:4; 7:6; 7:8; 7:30; 8:20. And every time John uses this phrase, he's referencing what? What's the hour? The hour of death? The hour where he will be crucified. But look at what he says here. Now what does he say? The hour has come. It's time. The hour has come to what? To be glorified… So therefore, the hour of maximum glory is the hour he hangs in death because it's through the cross that the love of God is manifest. The cross will be the stage upon which the glory-love of God is revealed. Do you see that? The greatest evidence of God's glory is his love and goodness to undeserving people. Has someone hurt you badly? Have you felt betrayed, injured? Think about how hard it is to forgive that person much less love them?! Much less die for them! That is GLORY my friends. GLORY! I want to point out something you may have never noticed before. Do you remember in the OT when Moses was trying to lead a bunch of rebellious people. I mean these guys were outright criminals. And he needed some encouragement. Man, is this whole leading your people thing even worth it? Exodus 33 What is the response to the request of Moses? God show me just how amazing you are. Show me your gravitas. Show us that thing about you that would just blow my mind. Show me the thing about you that makes you the most glorious being in the universe. How does God respond? Does he give Moses a glimpse into the center of a star, the center of a galaxy? No, look at this. You want to behold the glory of God? God says, “look at my goodness.” Look at my graciousness. Look at my mercy. You want to behold the glory of God? Then look at my love. Moses asks for glory; God gives him just the trailing edge of his goodness. We see the full splendor in the cross. It's true. In some ways, we probably see more than Moses. Seeing and beholding and reveling in the glory of God is the entire point of history. In Habakkuk 2 when Habakkuk looks forward to a day of restoration, do you know how he describes this future kingdom day of joy. Habakkuk 2:14, For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD as the waters cover the sea. What does that mean? That means, the whole earth will know the height and depth and length and breadth of God's love. They will see, according to this passage, the trinitarian love of God how the Son loves the Father and the Father in turn loves the Son. And they will see how the trinitarian love of God spills over into his love of humanity. And when we see that love, when we see that GLORY, we will worship. Now until that day, Jesus is going to pray for his followers, 5 things. There's 5 things for which Jesus petitions the Father. Now the reason this protection is necessary is twofold. Jesus as their direct protector is going to be leaving the world. But more significantly, the world is going to hate them. You see the world as defined by John is this domain that exists in open hostility to the kingdom of God. So the picture is you have two countries with their respective citizens living in them. And those countries are at absolute war with one another. It's Ukraine and Russia. The tensions are building. All the guards are up. The propaganda of the one country teaches you to hate the citizens of the other country. Now let's say you are a citizen of Russia right now working in the highest level of Russia's military headquarters. And then all of the sudden you flip allegiances. Uh, that's a problem. You have gone from an important executive with power and respect to a traitor. Your actual life is at risk. And that is exactly what happens when you become a follower of Jesus Christ. You are transferred from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of the beloved Son in Christ Jesus. You are perceived as a traitor. Your loyalty is now with another. You are praising the King of another country. You follow his orders. You love their values. And because of that you now become a threat to a way of life and everything valued in that country. Why would you desert our country? You too good for us? Let's kill him. And so Jesus prays for our protection knowing the world will always be hostile to the message of the gospel. Now, here's just an aside. Ukraine and Russia are heavily in the news right now and we need to pray for them. But I want to instruct us how to pray. We've supported Vladamir and Yulia Vlashenko. Years ago they were serving in Cremia in the southern part of Ukraine before it was Annexed by Russia. Now they are in Poltava which is close to the Eastern border with Russia. Recently we've received an update from SGA that they are safe but things are changing hourly. Now Bret Laird who is a good friend of mine was our connection to Ukraine. He served in a seminary there for 15 years. We visited him on several missions trips. He's preached here at this church on several occasions. So there's very few people more qualified to comment on this and here's what he says in a post from this week: To understand what is happening and why, we need to look beyond the physical warfare which fills our screens to the spiritual warfare that is unseen. Ephesians 6:12 reminds us: “Our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.” When the Soviet Union collapsed, and with it the state-imposed atheism of the Communists, there was a great spiritual harvest. Millions came to faith in Christ. And while the Lord brought in a harvest from all over the former Soviet nations, by far the greatest number of conversions occurred in Ukraine. Ukraine has always been the “Bread Basket” of eastern Europe, and that is true not only agriculturally, but spiritually. Ukraine is truly “The Bible Belt”–not only of the Slavic countries–but now of Europe itself. And beginning in the mid-2000's, churches all across Ukraine began sending missionaries to the least-reached and hardest to reach peoples of the world. The Bread of Life is going forth from the fertile spiritual soil in Ukraine to every continent on earth. THAT beloved, is what Satan is desperately trying to stop. THAT is the spiritual warfare behind the physical warfare. Satan's primary strategies have always been to POLLUTE the message of the gospel or to PERSECUTE the messengers of the gospel. But here's the good news: The Word of God cannot be chained. As millions of Ukrainians flee the violence, there will be many born-again believers among them. And they–just like they did in the first Russian invasion in 2014–will carry the gospel of Jesus Christ with them wherever they go. What men intend for evil, God will use for good. I lived among these believers. I know them. I've seen how they respond to war and to life as refugees. I've seen their courage and their devotion to Christ firsthand. So I am confident–and praying–that they, like the refugees from the church in Jerusalem described in Acts 8:4, will take the gospel with them wherever they are scattered by this invasion. “Those who had been scattered went about preaching the word.” -Acts 8:4 THAT is what GOD is doing. What better way to apply the sermon that to pray for protection for these brothers and sisters. Let's just take a second mid-sermon here to pray for our brothers and sisters in Christ in Ukraine. Jesus prays for protection. Let's pray that for them. Now I won't say a lot about this now, because next week this is going to be the focus of the sermon. I told you this was a prayer broken into two sermon-sized bites and this point will be the second bite. The one thing we will say today is that true Christian unity finds its power in the very nature of the Godhead and flows out of the love of God for us. That's the nuclear core. It's so incredibly different than ANY other kind of unity. The power is there and we are praying for God to do this work among us as a body. Now the word sanctify in English comes from the Latin word sanctus which means holy. So really it's a word that means holify. And the word holy means to be separate or to set apart away from common use. So take it out of the realm of religion for a moment. In our home we have a cupboard with all our cups. And they get used constantly. There are some plastic cups and some thick glass cups. They are strong, durable. They get kicked around. But then when my daughter has a birthday party with her friends, out come the tea party cups. And these are super fragile, beautiful thin walled cups with ornate decorations. These cups are set apart. They are holy unto tea-parties. That's what the word HOLY means. Set apart unto a very special purpose. There's common use cups. And then there set apart, holy cups. Do you see the difference? So God all through the Bible is called Holy. In fact that's how Jesus addresses the Father at the beginning of the prayer, "Holy Father." He's set apart from humanity. There's common man. And then there's God. Totally different. Totally other. You have common power. And then there's God's HOLY power. Separate and distinct and totally other. You have common love. And then there's God's HOLY love. Separate and distinct and totally other. And so Jesus here is praying that we would sanctified, holified in truth. You see, the way this sanctification happens, the way this holification happens is through the truth, through the WORD OF GOD. All through the Bible it is the Word of God which sanctifies his people. Joshua (Joshua 1:8–9), An Israelite king (Deuteronomy 17:18–20) Any faithful believer (Psalm 1:2). But it is a very specific truth of the Word of God that ultimately SANCTIFIES us. And we can discover what Jesus is referencing specifically by asking ourselves this question: "What does Jesus mean here by sanctifying himself?" You don't see as obvious in the English translation. The translator's tried to make this less confusing by using the word consecration. But it kind of masks an important concept. Notice the ESV says consecrate: Jesus says, for their sake I consecrate myself. But that's not what the Greek says. The Greek word is sanctify. So what does it mean that Jesus sanctifies himself? Obviously, it can't mean to get rid of sin since Jesus had no sin to eliminate. No, instead what he means is that he sets himself apart from common activities of man to do his Father's will, and his Father's will alone — and that means he willingly, gladly goes to the cross, however repulsive and horrifying the prospect is. Do you see the idea? If I sanctify myself for the purpose of the father, namely going to the cross, then it will be through my sanctification, that my followers will be sanctified. The obedience of Christ makes sinners holy. Because unlike Jesus, we can never be sanctified, set apart for God, without Christ first setting himself apart to do the Father's will. That is the good news; that is the gospel; that is the truth. That truth is what truly sanctifies us. This whole prayer is about us patterning ourselves after the Godhead. Do you see it. Christ's sanctification mission becomes now becomes our mission. Because Christ set himself apart from common activities of the world to do the father's activity, namely to save us, we now as saved people set ourselves apart from the common activities of the world to pursue the father's activity of sharing the good news with others. So what does that mean for you? You don't do what the world does with your time or your money. Your time is sanctified, set apart for God. You don't run your business like other people run their businesses. You don't work for your boss like other people work for their bosses. Why? Because you are set apart. It's redeemed for holy purposes. So take a look at what you do? How much of it is sanctified and how much of it is common? How much of it advances the mission of God? That's the only question that, in the end, truly matters. Jesus is here praying for our joy. That is wonderful. That is so encouraging. Do you feel like you lack joy right now? Jesus has prayed for you that the same joy that he experienced might be experienced in you. Do you want to be as happy as Jesus? Jesus has prayed for you that it might be so. Now don't think that means that you will be free of trials. Jesus praying for the disciples joy does not mean that they will be free of uncomfortable circumstances. Literally the verse before this prayer Jesus says, “In this world you will have tribulation.” 2 Timothy 3:12 says, “All those who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.” Persecution, suffering, trials does not equal joyless living. Do you believe that? Jesus is praying for the kind of joy he had. Was that circumstantial? Hebrews 12 There has to be a lot of joy in front of a person to endure the cross. Don't you think? What was his joy? His joy was the glory of the Father. The glory of the Father flooded his horizon so that was all he could see. Do you see how beautiful that is? Do you see how marvelous and glorious that is? And what is the ultimate glory of the Father? What is the most GLORIOUS attribute of the father? His Love. Jesus saw the LOVE of God and is praying that you too might see the Love of God and be transformed by it. Is that not incredible? Jesus' own joy in doing his Father's will was based on his ability to see the love of God for him. And that is where our joy comes from as well. As we see the glory of God which really is another way of saying, as we see the love of God, we are delighted and thrive regardless of circumstances. Even though the word joy isn't used, look at verse 24. You can hear it just oozing out of the text. Jesus just longs for his followers to see the love of God. That longing to be with the father, to do the will of the father who loves him so much. That is what he wants. This is the joy that Jesus prays for his disciples. Fifthly and finally, Jesus prays that we would be with God forever in heaven. That we would have that eternal life that has been such a focus in the book of John. Again, what is life? THIS is eternal life: that they KNOW the Father. This is the goal. This is the end. This is heaven. Knowing God. That's it. There's nothing better. There's nothing more infinite. If you're picture of heaven is camping, or sitting by a pool or enjoying great food, you are a million miles away. You are nowhere in the zipcode of heaven. What is life? What is eternal life? What is heaven? KNOWING GOD. Reveling and basking in the glory of God. That's what it means to GLORIFY God, to simply recognize what is. To simply acknowledge his otherness, his separateness, his supreme attractiveness, his worth, his towering love, his infinite love, his life-giving, bitterness-melting, overflowing love. That is heaven. That's why everything is about glorifying God. We come back full circle to the glory of God. Look at the picture of the throneroom in Rev 4. Revelation 4-5 And then he describes 24 thrones with elders and four living creatures who were praising God. And then you get this climactic scene at the end. This is life: that they might know the father. This is eternal life: knowing that God. FCBC, this is life; there is no greater life. Jesus says, I am the way the truth and the life. Why is that? Because life is in the father. No man comes to the father except through me. Thus the ultimate petition, the final petition, the mega-petition is to see the glory of God which is to say, that the final petition, the mega-petition is to see the love of God in sending his Son to be the Savior of the world.. Application Now, I want to pause for a moment. I mean this kind of thinking is so lofty. It's so grand. But just stop for a moment.. Think about who Jesus is praying for? You know who these people are; you've been reading about them. All they ever do is quarrel. All they ever do is doubt. They gossip. They whisper in secret about whose better. All they ever do is scramble for preeminence. And worse still. *They're about to desert him and deny him within a matter of hours. And for these people he's praying for protection, unity, sanctification, joy, life. The disciples were a train wreck. They were a mess. In a strange sort of way, that is a tremendous comfort. Because we are a mess. Who here comes without significant embarrassment in the dark corners of your life? Who here has it all together? Who here is free from sin? We are all a mess. If being broken and sinful describes you, welcome to the party. Jesus is praying for you. Jesus is interceding for you. Jesus is your advocate. Jesus is your defender. It is through Jesus that you will see the father and fall on your face and cry out HOLY, HOLY, HOLY! You see at the end of the day, it's not that you accept Jesus into your heart. Jesus places you into the Father. You did not choose me. I chose you. Jesus is doing the work. Do you not see, that no matter what goes down in your life, Jesus loves you. You can't separate yourself from the love of God. And the glorious, brilliant, blinding, star-like nature of that divine, perfect love is going to gnaw at those places of rebellion and break it down and it's going to grow and grow and grow until your entire horizon is filled with it and then it's going to leak out of you and into others and the whole earth is filled with the knowledge of his Glory and the experience of his LOVE.

Q&A

Considering a change in employment? Apple/China/Green Army/Bitcoin seizure and Cybersecurity Jobs! Apple has upended a lot of industries over the years, and it is about to upend yet another one. Square is a company that has been making a lot of money and its run by same guy that ran Twitter. You know that Rasputen-looking guy? What's Apple doing to the finance industry? [Following is an automated transcript] This is a real big deal. Apple has been for a long time upending industries. [00:00:23] You might remember, of course, the music player. In fact, I still have an old MP3 player. You can't really see it very well from this angle, but it was right over there. And then. And it was a five gigabyte player. Just amazing thing was huge. It was actually designed by digital equipment corporation, licensed by this other manufacturer, put them together. [00:00:44] Great audio quality. They had these little costs, headphones that came along. I loved the thing. Absolutely loved it. And apple came along, they weren't the first and they introduced their own MP3 player. That was called an iPod. And it did very well. It just slaughtered everybody else. You might remember the Microsoft came out with their zoon and many others came out with their own little MP3 players. [00:01:12] No, nobody could touch our friends over at apple with their iPod. And then what happened? Around 2010, think for a minute. What new product did apple introduce around 2010? Of course it was this right. It was the I phone now the iPhone cut dramatically into Apple's market and for a good reason. It was a phone. [00:01:38] It was a smart phone. It could play all of your music. I still have and still use 120 gigabyte. I iPod. At the kind of the classic I think is what they had called it. And 120, it was just amazing. Just that much music. Of course, me, I have a lot of lectures, a lot of audio books and other things I listened to on that, on those iPods and what happened. [00:02:05] Of course. Now you can get these I-phones with a terabyte of memory in them, just incredible amount of space. And that's a pretty good thing, frankly, because you can store everything. But at the same time, our networks are getting faster. Aren't they? So our networks, like what we have for our cellular phones and stuff are faster than they have ever been. [00:02:29] So you don't really need as much storage do you, as you used to have. On your phone or your iPod or your MP3 player. So it's an interesting game. How much space do you need? And I'm asked that all of the time and the newest iPhone is coming out, have a lot more memory. I think they have eight gigabytes of Ram in them. [00:02:48] And as I said, a terabyte of storage. But what apple was doing is saying, Hey, we own this iPod market, the MP3 player market. And of course it's more than just MP3s, lot of other formats out there for the music or audio books, but they owned it. But they knew that if they were going to survive in the industry, they had to do something else. [00:03:13] Came out with a product that competed with their award winning and just top of the line product, the iPhone and your iPhone works every bit as well as an iPod ever did. And of course ever so much better because now you don't have to download the music on your iPhone to listen to it, to you. You can stream it over the internet, over wifi, right over the cellular data connection, those things we've gotten fast. [00:03:38] Two great option for. What Apple's doing now is saying we need to append another market. Have you ever had, again, like you, you got your phone, right? And let's say you're a small merchant, maybe your coffee shop, or maybe you're even smaller. Maybe you're just out at a flea market selling stuff that you might want to peddle. [00:03:59] You have to get an, a credit card. Don't you. And back in the day that credit card reader would plug right into the headphone Jack and with a headphone Jack, you'd be able to go online. No problem. Life is good. And once you're online, then you can take the credit. Now you didn't just have to go online with your iPhone, but you had to be able to go on line with your phone and the reader, because when they got rid of that wonderful little headphone port, you now had to use Bluetooth, didn't you and you still. [00:04:37] So you get that reader from square or that reader from PayPal or somewhere else it's acting as your merchant account. And that reader then uses Bluetooth to talk to the phone and then it can read the credit card or the chip. And of course, with the chip it's by directional, it has to get the information to, and from that trip, And then you've got the credit card that you can process all well, and good. [00:05:04] We're all happy about that, but here's your next problem? Bluetooth. Isn't always working. That reader has to be charged. Did you charge it before you brought it before you started using it? So apple said wait a minute. In our I-phones we have built in a few different things. Do you ever used apple pay? [00:05:25] It's probably the safest way to pay online bar? None. It doesn't actually give the merchant the credit card. And it gives them a code that they can read Dean in order to go ahead and get the money from the transaction so that transaction can then be redeemed by the merchant. And that's all stuff handled by your merchant account. [00:05:48] You don't have to worry about it makes life. However now what they've done is they've said let's reverse this. You can use your iPhone with apple pay in order to pay for things. And it has, what's called near field technology in it that allows it to act like those tap and go credit cards I've ever used. [00:06:08] One of those where you can just tap it and it makes the transaction happen. Pretty simple. So it has that in there, but it also has the ability. To read those tap and go transactions. So it's going to be interesting to see exactly what happens here. This is a very big industry. There is a whole lot of money in it, and there's an article this week from our friends over in ink magazine. [00:06:36] I got up on my screen for those who are watching a video here on rumble or YouTube. And it's talking about this feature that they introduced quite quietly. Because this new capability is going to change things. Now you are still going to have your merchant account. So you still might have to have a Stripe or a PayPal or direct merchant account with your bank. [00:07:02] But this is allowing contactless credit and debit cards and other digital wallets to be able to be read from any one's iPhone, which is really quite. Now there's things like Venmo and others out there that people use. My kids use a lot more than I do, but they use it to send money back and forth to each other. [00:07:23] It's a pretty good little thing that they've got going, but with something like this, you wouldn't even need to use a Venmo. So those are the guys that are going to get really nailed by it. And Stripe really is phenomenal. It's so easy to use and I use it as well. I use. For my courses. If you sign up, for course, to almost always going through Stripe, I know there's some other alternatives out there right now that are a little more friendly to the non-mainstream, but I haven't been able to integrate those yet in Vermont payment processors, but there's still going to need it. [00:08:01] You can use cash app, Venmo. It's not going to stop you from doing any of that, but it does stop you from having to have another. Piece of equipment with you, which is just something else to go bad, or dig to have, get dirty to, to not be able to work for you. So we'll see what happens. This is cutting out. [00:08:22] These companies like square. They'll no longer be able to. Have from the front to the back, they'll still have the back, frankly, but they'd be able to accept payments from pretty much anything that's contactless, which is I think a very good deal. We'll see what happens. But again, this is not apple going after Apple's existing customer base, like it did with the I Paul. [00:08:50] Transition to the I phone. This is apple going after another piece of the retail space. And remember what I said earlier, it's not even just that app. Has the ability to enter market, but we've seen time and again, where apple enters a market that's already established. It's not quite mature, right? You haven't had all of those acquisitions going where the companies are buying each other up, but it is going to make a huge difference because again, apple up. [00:09:23] And apple has ties in to a couple of banks that they use for processing their apple cards. Think it's Goldman Sachs, and they could potentially provide you with the merchant account stuff on the backend. So I think that's pretty cool. And it's going to allow us all to have a cashless. The yeah, if this was a political show, that's probably what we'd be talking about. [00:09:50] Wouldn't it? Because there's certain problems with doing that as well. Hey, I want to invite everybody to take a few minutes right now. I am making some changes. I've been working on some of these for weeks, but I've got a lot of clients. I've got two. Take care of first, right? I've been doing a lot of CSO work, CIS, so chief information security officer, just on a fractional or part-time basis as a contractor for a few different companies to try and keep them up-to-date with all of the latest in technology. [00:10:22] So it's been really fun, but I haven't been able to do everything I want to do yet on the radio show. So my wife and I are reaching into our pockets and we're going to be hopefully pulling out somebody to help us with some of this, because what I want to do is send. My show notes to you guys every week. [00:10:41] So you can see what I'm talking about. You have the direct links, as well as my newsletter, and I want to start doing my Wednesday wisdoms trainings more regularly. It's really hit or miss. So trying to do all of that, and I'd really appreciate it. If you would go right now to Craig peterson.com and make sure you sign up right there for my email list, Craig peterson.com. [00:11:07] Get it. All right. [00:11:10] We've been very worried about China for quite a few years, for more than one reason. But one of the biggest is they have dominated some of the most critical markets in the world, including some of these mineral resources that we need. [00:11:27] China has been a big worry for many countries around the world. [00:11:32] For a long time, I met with the ambassador from a couple of these African countries and had a great little chat about what was going on there. They wanted to become this one country in particular, the data processing center. For Africa and Africa, of course, very big country or continent, I should say with a lot of countries and a lot of financial transactions. [00:12:01] And they figured what we need is a good data center. We need data lines coming in. And so they got some of those data lines and they got the data center. The data center provided by our friends in China. And so this data center was being used for a few different things, but it sure was not being used for these financial transactions. [00:12:27] So they wanted it to be used for because China. Provided the equipment. And we know from a lot of articles, a lot of research and from the federal government, the China has been spying on us. And I have seen it personally with some of these DOD sub subcontractors. In other words, it's not necessarily directly contracting with the department of defense, but providing parts and things via subcontractor relationships. [00:12:59] And China is a problem. So what do they do? How is this small African countries supposed to become the data processing country for all of Africa, with Chinese equipment? How could they possibly do it without Chinese equipment? And that's what the ambassador was telling. We need this equipment this is it. [00:13:19] They had Chinese routers, switches processors. They had racks of equipment set up in virtual environments and they were all set to go. China's been doing similar things in other parts of the world where they come in, they might build a port for instance, which has happened many times, one in Indonesia, particularly I'm thinking of, and they financed the port. [00:13:45] If you don't make the payment on that data center or the payment on the port or the payment on the railroad system, et cetera, that China has installed in your country, guess what's in that contract, you forfeit them. So the data center now becomes absolutely. China's not just a lean on it, not just a lease from China. [00:14:11] It is China's data center. That port is China's port. In fact, they own the largest port. Now I think in all of Indonesia, maybe the whole Pacific rim over there, I'm not sure, but that's what they've been doing. Same thing with railroads, et cetera, et cetera. So China really has a lot of companies and countries over the. [00:14:35] That's something we didn't want to have happen here in president Trump, you might remember was very adamant about it. He did a whole lot of work to make sure that none of the Chinese interests would really be able to take over and control our us interest. It makes sense to me. So what has China been doing to us? [00:14:58] We know about the steel and remember China was dumping cheap steel into the us and world markets that hurts us. We have a need to make things here. If we ever haven't forbid got into a war. And we needed ships or boats or planes, or we needed armaments of some sort or another. We need to be able to make them in the United States or in an allied country. [00:15:29] You remember how many problems that Britain had during the war? Trying to ship stuff over. I have two kids that were merchant Mariners and the U S merchant Marine academy is the only. Of the military academies, that flies battle standards because they lost cadets who were there at the school during warfare. [00:15:53] Okay. It's a bad thing. We don't want that to happen. So not having to rely on other countries actually ends up being a bit of a positive thing, depending on what it is. China's sent us things like dog food, that's contaminated, baby food contaminated. Even those, green recyclable bags, people take to the grocery store. [00:16:16] Yeah, contaminated with lead. It goes on and on. They also had control of 99% of certain precious metals that are needed for some of our key manufacturing here in the U S so we put tariffs on China for steel. We did the same thing in 2021. In fact, they put a tariff of 23% in 2021 to protect the steel manufacturers here in the U S. [00:16:45] From these cheap Chinese imports, not just cheap, but low quality steel Weiwei, you know about them. They owned the smartphone business in many parts of the world. In fact, here in the United States, you could get cheap Walway phones. Now, Weiwei of course, if much about Canadian history, know about Northern telecomm, who did a little. [00:17:10] Pioneering in the whole phone business for many decades and the allegations. And there's some proof that I've seen that leads me to believe that these allegations are correct. Are that while always stolen? Northern telecoms designs, its plans, et cetera, and put all of that together to make Walway. [00:17:32] So they steal the plans, they steal the engineering, they steal the research and development, the intellectual property. They then start making it, of course, without having to worry about the investments into R and D and developing products. Now they just stole them and then they flood the markets worldwide with. [00:17:52] Equipment paid and manufactured in some cases by slave labor in almost every case by substantially low wages and. They then control of the market. So we said no way to Walway and that was something president Trump started. It's actually a really good thing. And Google apps are now no longer allowed on Huawei phones. [00:18:19] So China used to have a 99%, almost total monopoly on rare earth metals. I'm going to bring this article up on the screen from our friends over at American. But now they have fallen to less than 60% monopoly. So they've been trying to stop shipments of rare earth metals to countries all over the world to drive up the prices. [00:18:45] They did the same thing here to Japan because of the contesting in the south China sea of some of these islands of some of these mineral rights. But since then in the last decade, rare earth metal. Are being mined. In other parts of the world, we talked here about what California is doing. California is now going to be mining lithium and some of these other rare earth metals that we need to make batteries. [00:19:15] We need to make processes. We need to make cars. We need to make light bulbs right on. And. They used to have a near monopoly on foreign off shore investment because companies were going to China like crazy, because the cheap wages over there, 1.4 billion consumers has been leading companies that make movies like Disney to go over to China. [00:19:39] But things have really stopped in some of these growth areas for China. And in fact, have reversed in a very big way. They're clamped down on business, censoring of wealthy capitalists food, shortages, growth, centralized government corruption. Gross, excuse me, corruption, mismanagement, stagflation, plunging birth rate, all resulted in investments and opportunities. [00:20:04] Fleeing China. Great article in American thinker. Keep an eye out for it in the newsletter this week and stick around. But first check out Craig peterson.com. Make sure you're on my email list. And if you like watching video, Hey, I'd like to invite you to watch me and follow me on YouTube and rumble. [00:20:27] This is straight out of the, what were you thinking department? In fact, what are you thinking? Yeah, the us army is planning on going green. Yeah. They want electric vehicles in war. [00:20:44] This is a plan that you just are going to have to shake your head at a, again, it's a little bit of idiocy, but before we talk specifically about the plan, I want to talk about something related. [00:20:59] Now, remember this plan is from the U S army and they want some goals read Sean on climate change and electric vehicles here over the next 20, 30 years. So let's look at the science behind what they're talking about, and I'm going to show you the actual statement that came out from the military. And one of president Biden's appointees is just nuts, absolutely nuts, but I'm going to back up a little. [00:21:34] For those of you who are watching along at home. Let me pull this up for you. This is from slash. And it's quoting a report over on the wall street journal and pulling some stuff together. But what they're doing in this particular article is talking about how our friends who have come up with these super computer designed. [00:22:02] To model our weather have been be fuddled they've reworked 1.2 million lines of computer code in order to compensate for something that I don't know about you, but if I was writing the code, I probably would have compensated for it in the first place cloud. Clouds. Yeah. Yeah. It turns out this is just to me, absolutely boggling the mind, that great glowing orb that appears in the sky. [00:22:35] From time to time. Yeah. I'll give or take half of the day. That thing called the sun apparently has something to do with the earth warming up. And do you know what else does, the clouds that are up in the sky? Those clouds can reflect the sun's heat and they can also hold heat in on the ground side, who would have thought. [00:23:01] So all of these models that they've been using, cause remember by now, as of more than a decade ago, New York Manhattan is underwater. Remember? Yeah. Al gore with his scientific moon movie at this science. Is just cited. It's proven and Florida by now was underwater. And so as Manhattan, and of course neither is true because they had no idea what they were talking about. [00:23:27] This article in the wall street journal, Totally baffles me. And I'm just showing you the excerpt from slash.here on the screen because the wall street journal was paid. And I don't want to have to push you guys to paid stuff if I can avoid it. But they thought it was really strange cause they updated the simulation in 2018 and in 2018 it turned out that the earth was. [00:23:55] Way more sensitive to greenhouse gases than they thought. And, oh man, they had to think about that because, in Boulder, the national center for atmospheric research they said if that number was correct, that would be really bad news. Yeah. And at least 20 older climate models disagreed with the new one, but they were simpler and this new one is an open source model. [00:24:20] So anybody can look at the code and kind of figure it out. So I, then what ended up happening is. More than a dozen other models were released and it turns out wait a minute, now they're agreeing with us. Do you remember that spaghetti code that predicted the COVID 19 was going to kill? [00:24:40] It was a two and a half million people in the United States. Of course didn't get anywhere near. Close to that, because the way we kept the stats, right? W co dine with COVID versus because of COVID right. Remember that whole controversy. It turns out that the scientists concluded that their new calculations have been thrown off kilter by the physics of clouds in a warming world, which may amplify or. [00:25:08] Climate change. Isn't that what I had just said, that Kyle taken, they can block the sun and they can also keep heat in. A night with lots of moisture in the air, whether it's humidity or cloud is going to stay warmer than a night where there's no clouds. These are experts. So the fact that they left out clouds and the effect they might have, I must make a whole lot of sense, because this is a science and the science has settled. [00:25:34] Yeah. So Andrew Gettleman now physicist there in Boulder said that the old way is just wrong. We know that I think our higher sensitivity is wrong to it. It's probably a consequence of other things we did by making clouds better and more realistic to solve one problem and create another I, again, I got to point out science, mind. [00:25:59] Science is not settled on pretty much anything and it never has been. And until we are all knowing, it never will be. So keep that in mind and quit having your heads just be so inflated that you think that you're absolutely right, because I'm not absolutely right. They're not absolutely right. No, one's absolutely right. [00:26:23] So let's get into the army here. This is just so exciting. Cause Christine wor Muth is the secretary of the army now, and the army is going to lead by example. And we put this up on the screen. I just realized that I'll have this up on the screen for you guys. We will use our buying power to drive change in the industry and leverage best practices from. [00:26:47] Sources. There's another great quote here from the secretary of defense. W we face all kinds of threats in our line of work yet. Yeah. Secretary of defense army. Yeah. Okay. But a few of the threats truly deserve to be called existential. The climate crisis does climate change is making the world more unsafe and we need to act right. [00:27:14] That's what she's saying, that this thing goes on for pages, what the goals are. So I decided, okay, Craig, let's have a look at this. I'm going to do a search in this PDF for the word risk. What are the risks? If we're going to be messing with the military, with the electric vehicles, because in the middle of a war zone, it's great. [00:27:33] You just, you stop, you plug your electric vehicle and let it charge for half an hour. And then you're off and running. And particularly where tanks are right. Where we're trying to protect our personnel. Maybe have an offensive. They'll wait while we charge our tanks, right? Oh and a little tiny solar cell, or we cover it with solar cells. [00:27:51] That's going to be enough to charge it if we leave it sitting there for a week. So we're okay. So what are the risks associated with us being idiots and moving towards an electric army? Okay, so risks here. Okay. So this is a risk to the climate. This is climate risks. Oh, this is red mitigating climate risks, assertion of climate change risks impacting the army at all levels from how and where our units operate and train to how to service as a whole. [00:28:21] Okay. So that's risks of when the climate changes, as we know it will, because those guys wrote 1.2 million new lines of code. Okay. So we know it's going to change. Okay. So let me see risks, climate change, imposes, climate threats, and risks. Address the risks associated with these. Let's see here. [00:28:43] What else do we got? Climate change risks. Climate change risks. Oh, they're going to install micro grids on every installation. Okay. Climate change risks. This is nuts. And the New York post has a great article on this insanity. Oh my gosh. What are we going to do with these. Yeah, our military, we're going to stop and charge our vehicles. [00:29:10] Yeah. All right, everybody stick around and visit online. Craig Peter sohn.com. I'll keep you up to date. [00:29:24] We're going to talk about this Bitcoin laundering case that really turned the internet upside down. Cryptocurrencies, Bitcoin, how safe is it? How secure is it really? And what happened here? Because this Bonnie and Clyde failed. [00:29:41] This is an article from the New York times. [00:29:44] Now I know I don't like to, you guys know this show you stuff that you have to pay to go to a paid site and particularly something like the New York times. It's amazing to me how they have some really great journalists that do a good job on some of these stories. And then they just totally go political on so many of the other stories, and I'm not talking about the editorial page, knock yourself out. [00:30:11] But anyways, this is a fascinating story to me because so many of us think that using Bitcoin is going to be safe after. Cryptocurrency. And crypto means cryptography and cryptography means we're keeping ourselves safer. Isn't it? Isn't that? How that's all supposed to work kind of the bottom line while in reality, it doesn't always work out that way. [00:30:40] And when it comes to cryptocurrency, it definitely does. And I want to explain a little bit about cryptocurrency for people, if you don't understand it very well, just putting the very, very, basically the way it works is there are ledgers, just like the old ledgers you used to see at the banks or businesses, those big. [00:31:02] And they'd maybe do double entry ledgers, or maybe some other types. Nowadays. Of course, all of this stuff has done on computers, but the idea is you walk into your bank and you say, I want a hundred dollars from my account. So the bank opens up its ledgers and sees, okay. Your account has X dollars in it. [00:31:23] They give you a hundred dollars in that ledger. Now they marked down that your account now is a hundred dollars less because you just would do a hundred bucks. That's the simple way it works with the bank. It's actually very similar with the script old currencies, but what happens in cryptocurrencies is you're not dealing with one institution. [00:31:46] So it isn't just your retirement plan that fidelity friends. With it, when it comes to cryptocurrencies, these ledgers are maintained by hundreds of different businesses and people around the world. Thousands depends on the cryptocurrency itself. And the idea is when you go and you want to take your a hundred dollars for instance, from the bank, they look it up in their one ledger in that ledger is assumed to be correct. [00:32:15] But when it comes to cryptocurrencies, there have to be the majority of ledgers that agree about how much money. And those ledgers are all public ledgers. So it's like having a Swiss bank account in that your account is represented by a number that's actually where the cryptography comes in and the keys, public keys and everything else. [00:32:40] But your account is essentially represented by a number. So if you want to pay the a hundred dollars to. In cryptocurrency. So it's probably some fraction of some cryptocurrency what's going to happen is you are going to have half of the ledgers for that particular cryptocurrency agree that you're transferring a hundred dollars. [00:33:07] From account number 1, 2, 3, 4 to someone else's account, which is 5, 6, 7, 8, just as an example. Very simplified example. So now what happens is the people who are running the ledger that you're using the main ledger, check the other ledgers and push your transaction onto the ledgers. That's why it takes a while for cryptocurrency transactions to occur. [00:33:32] Because it has to push out to these ledgers. Half of them have to agree in order for it to be a reasonable and accepted transactions. That make sense. Good. So what we have here now because of public ledgers is public information. The amount of money you have in that number to count can be seen by anyone who cares to look. [00:34:00] It's really that simple. Anybody can see it. So why are people thinking that it's crypto it's safe? It can't be taken by the government or bad guys, et cetera. Those concepts are all insane. The. Sort of privacy or security you have is related to the ledger. So the security is half of the ledgers have to agree. [00:34:23] So someone hacks one ledger, that's not enough to get control of all of your cryptocurrency or whatever it might. If someone hacks your wallet, that's a different story entirely. Okay. But that's not what we're talking about right now, but everybody can see that you have a hundred dollars in account. [00:34:43] Number 1, 2, 3, 4, the pro the trick is, and the problem for law enforcement, they don't necessarily know who owns account 1, 2, 3. So what law enforcement does in order to get money back or to arrest people is they watch these accounts. So in this particular case, there's Bonnie and Clyde, if you will hack a cryptocurrency exchange. [00:35:09] So this is again, one of these ledgers sites and they'll often exchange us dollars for various cryptocurrencies. Back in 2016, Bitfinex was the name of it. And they store $71 million in Bitcoin from effectively wallets are there on that site. But because these trades are publicly. People on the internet knew that it happened. [00:35:39] In fact, people on the internet were watching that wallet waiting for money to move. And this couple that's alleged to have stolen it's Iliya Lichtenstein and Heather Morgan, that account could, they could see that $71 million was in it. But over time, six years later, the value of Bitcoin had gone up substantially. [00:36:06] And today is worth about $4 billion. Isn't that just amazing and a lot of money. So they moved it to another account and that's when the got in trouble. So if you have a Swiss bank account, 1, 2, 3, 4, and you transfer money to someone else that I know, I now can trace that account. I say, oh, I know who has that. [00:36:35] Yeah, that's 71 million worth of Bitcoin. Back in the day, that's now worth 4 billion was in this account and they just bought themselves a new Porsche cayenne at this dealership. And all law enforcement has to do is knock at the dealership, say who was it? And now they know who the people are, but in this particular case, The bad guys had left that money in that Bitcoin account, but that money did get transferred, but guess what? [00:37:05] It wasn't them, people on the internet were thinking that the hackers had emerged that they were transferring the money to other Bitcoin accounts, which you see fairly frequently for these illegal transactions, but it wasn't the hackers who move that stolen. Bitcoin. This is again from the New York times, it was the government which had seized it as part of investigation into two New York city entrepreneurs, one with a little known Russian emigre and techie investor who had just named the other, his wife, an American businesswoman, and would be social media influencer with an alter ego. [00:37:44] Is this a terrible rapper named razzle con. Yeah, amazing. You can't make this stuff up. Can you, so they're charged with conspiracy to launder billions of dollars in Bitcoin. Ilya is 34 and Heather's 31 accused of siphoned off chunks of the currency, trying to hide it in this complex network of digital wallets and personas. [00:38:07] And if they're convicted of it and a second. Spare seat count that has been put against them. They could be facing up to 25 years in prison. So as is always the case, oh, you asked the neighbor, he was a good boy. He was a very good boy. I love that. How we are, but he's that little bit all over the. [00:38:26] But the couple's neighbors said they're goofy, normal types of people never expected that. But these are part of a real change that we've been seeing over the last few years into investigations in the cryptocurrency field. Now, remember crypto isn't necessarily the best thing. [00:38:44] Own any, never have owned any. I played around with some mining stuff at one point, just on my regular computer to see what it was all about, but it is not anything that's worth anything to anyone. Frankly, what I did now, a lot of people have been buying it. Of course, part of the problem with it is in order for it to be truly useful, you have to convert it back into something like a us dollar or maybe some other type of currency. [00:39:11] And that's often when people get caught and nowadays on the tax forms, it even asked you about any sort of crypto holdings that you might have. So remember all of that. They don't know, by the way, this is again from the article, the New York times, if they were directly involved in this breach all those years ago, but this is really crypto culture and it really is the fringe. [00:39:40] And they went crazy online and started looking at the digital trail. Her videos suddenly shared widely. Yeah. They've become infamous, is the right way to put all of that. Hey, if you like the show, I would really encourage you to follow me. You can follow, listen to my podcast on tune in on any of the major, in fact stream. [00:40:09] Platforms out there SoundCloud you'll find me on apple, et cetera. And I just started videotaping the shows last week. And this week I've done little things before, but now I'm trying to do the whole. So you can watch me on the show as I'm recording it live and see a little bit behind the scenes, which I've always liked. [00:40:35] I've been watching how we Carr and grace Curley do their show. And I thought, it's well worth it this week. I did a little bit of editing on. Cut out some of the in between, cause I had some longer coffee and fit and had to stretch my legs a couple of times, but you get to see the whole thing behind the scenes. [00:40:54] And if you sign up for my newsletter, you're going to get my weekly trainings. You're going to find out about boot camps I'm doing and other things, but you have to. Go to Craig Peter sawn.com. You'll see a right there on any page, frankly, to scroll down a little bit. It'll pop up right at the top of the page. [00:41:14] Put in your name and email address, and I'm going to send you a few special reports, including my report on passwords. Craig peterson.com. [00:41:25] You obviously know about the great resignation. It has been a big problem for a lot of companies out there. Great. For job seekers. Great for you. If you're trying to maybe get a raise, et cetera, especially if you're in the tech industry. [00:41:42] This great resignation thing, man. Has it hit companies? And one of the biggest problems companies are having is with tech workers. [00:41:55] You might remember back in the day, we had a big shortage of some of the cybersecurity people, right? Where we couldn't find them. There were numbers saying that there's like a million and a half or more open jobs for cybersecurity people. Now I did a little investigation into that number because it sounded high to me. [00:42:18] Cause I, I was coding it. It was a number that came from some pretty reasonable sources. But I think this is one of those things where you had one news source stating it and then all of a sudden other people started quoting it. I don't think it was really a million and a half. And what I found was that the people that had put that number together were looking at it and saying, if you have a business. [00:42:46] Who you should, you have working for you when it comes to cybersecurity? So there's like the CSO, the chief information security officer, which is something I do on a fractional basis for businesses all of the time, helping them to up their security. So you had to have a CSO, you needed to have a team. [00:43:06] Looking at the logs that was paying attention to the networks. If something happened, they would know when they did investigate and maybe they would do patching close bugs. Which is a different person. One is the network operation center people. And if you're going to have a 24 7 network operation center, that means you need at least four people probably. [00:43:30] And so the added all of this stuff up right there, the desktop people that are making sure the end points are protected and kept up to date and upgraded. That's how they came up with that, one and a half, 2 million open jobs in the us for technology. The reality was different obviously. [00:43:50] And now with the great resignation where all of these people are. Out of the jobs. And part of the problem was already the beginning of the lockdowns. They had people suspended. They laid them off or they said, okay maybe we'll have you back. It's only two weeks to flatten the curve. [00:44:11] So yeah, take a couple of weeks off. And so that gave people the opportunity over that. Period, which actually was two years, right? A minute. Maybe it's just my imagination. I'm not sure. But did that whole flatten the curve period that lasted for two years, people said I don't like this job because Frank. [00:44:32] There is very few jobs. There are very few jobs that are as stressful as the cyber security jobs, because you're dealing all of the time with the senior executives saying I'm not going to double log in. I'm not going to carry a token around with me. I'm not going to have my screen time out after. [00:44:55] Dean minutes or five minutes? No, it has to be half an hour and I just can't get my work done otherwise. So you're fighting with senior management who approved the budget in the first place, to at least do the minimal stuff. You're fighting with senior management to. The budget you need in order to keep the company safe. [00:45:15] Because nowadays, if you're not keeping a company safe, you can go out of business like that, lose your reputation, lose your intellectual property. I've seen it before with companies, small companies, bigger companies. You've got to make sure all of your backups are in place there. You're using. 3, 2, 1 strategy nowadays, it's more of a 4, 3, 2, 2 1, 1 zeros hero strategy. [00:45:40] I'll have to do a webinar on that one or a little meeting. We'll get together and talk about it. But again, if you're interested in that you gotta go to my website and stamped for the email list. Craig peterson.com. Just trying to figure it all out is difficult. And then you get all of these false alerts from software and you got to figure out, was this a legitimate alert or was this a false alert? [00:46:04] What should I do about this? Or should I do about that? Who's really trying to break in. Why are they trying to break in? All of that sort of stuff gets to be difficult. So it's a stressful job. So a lot of people that were in cyber security at the beginning of the lockdown, I said I got to find something better. [00:46:21] I know a couple of listeners who decided at the age of 55 to 60 in both cases that they would go change their careers had enough of what they were doing and we're going to go and do cybersecurity, took some of these classes, got the basics together and found jobs. In cybersecurity now they're not going to be experts, but they certainly knew more than the other people at the business, including the I T directors. [00:46:53] And I say that with air quotes. So they both changed jobs during the. Now that's an interesting thing to me because I, and I'm not pointing my finger at either one of these guys, but the number one thing you have, if you are in cybersecurity, if you are a CSO is the top drawer of your desk. [00:47:14] Assuming you have a desk, there's two things. One is your resume. And the other is your resignation letter because. Ultimately any business can be hacked. Now, I don't want people to say I'm throwing my hands up because it doesn't matter. Any business can be hacked. I'm not going to deal with this, right? [00:47:31] Why would I spend any money on it all because you can control. Likely you are to be hacked and you can get like a 98 to a hundred percent effectiveness depending on how you measure things. And if something does happen, what matters is, how can you recover? So if you look at things like the sniffs to cybersecurity framework, you'll see, there's all kinds of provisions in there to make sure the business survives a hack. [00:48:01] Okay. Stuff you needed to do stuff you need to be concerned about. But the whole cyber security side of the business is. Still in high demand because businesses more and more are realizing they can't just get by with running antivirus software anymore. You can't just say, oh I've got wonderful. [00:48:24] A windows defender on my PC and that's working great. I don't need anything else. Now you have to have a much more advanced system. There's no two ways about it. So what we're finding is people in the it business right now can find a job if they were. Great article here. Let me show you a little bit. [00:48:45] If you're watching, you'll see this on the screen. Two articles this week that I thought were really great, and I want to run through a little bit, but one is from. Wired magazine. That's a magazine I've subscribed to for a long time. They got some crazy ideas, but they got some good stuff, dude. And it's talking about the shortage of qualified workers and the competition. [00:49:11] It's fascinating. And then another one here, I'll show you from the New York times magazine. And it's talking about the recruiters who are trying to recruit in the tech space. Now, in both of these cases, what we're talking about are job vacancies that are open in a minimum, hundreds of thousands in the U S right. [00:49:36] Yeah, it's hard to tell, but what you can tell and what we are seeing is that these are recruiters who used to be stocked quite literally, sometimes by people looking for a job are now lucky. If they get a return, email, or phone, That's how bad it's gotten for them. And the story goes through this one recruiters kind of background saying, yeah I had this one person who's looking for a job and they stalked me, found my picture on LinkedIn and then stood outside the building, waiting for me to come out and then basically shoved the resume in my face and talked me up. [00:50:21] Another one saying I had mentioned on the phone that I really liked tophi what shows up the next morning, this beautiful handmade toffee perfectly wrapped. So it has gone in just a few years from that where people will do anything in order to try and get a hold of the hiring manager, to where it is today, where people are just saying. [00:50:44] Forget about it, it just isn't worth my time. The other thing that the recruiters are fine. Is that people when, if they do get ahold of them are saying basically, Hey, I'm just burned out. No, I don't think I have the energy anymore to do this, which is an interesting response. People because of the lock down have just had their. [00:51:10] Their excitement, squashed, and ability to look forward to what my career is going to be if you're younger and if you're older, like I am, you're looking at it saying I've still got a lot of good years left and I'd love to do this and have my my wisdom, if you will, from all of these decades in the it world and in cybersecurity put to good use, which is why I said I'm doing the fractional. [00:51:36] Chief information security officer for businesses. But what we are finding is. People can get the jobs, even people who are already retired to semi retired. I read another article this week that I thought was rather interesting. And we'll talk about that a bit when we get back, because it's going to take a few, but. [00:51:59] The resume side of things. No, we heard the T of course the tophi trick the standing outside and stocking them tricky, et cetera. So what is happening right now? When you want a job, then maybe you've been in the market before for a lot of years and you're competing against the kids that are out there. [00:52:21] Things have changed stick around and visit me online. Craig Peterson dot. [00:52:28] We're going to finish up our discussion about jobs and open it, positions it in general. And also going to talk about some of the tips for older employees on the resume. I had a bit of a shocker this week.. [00:52:44] This article, and I'm going to pull up on my screen for those who are watching online is I think fascinating. [00:52:51] This is from the New York times, and it's talking about recruiters and it's from a recruiter's perspective, Frank. And it's saying here, this is by the way, the one that had that story about the lady that used to be just hunted down all of the time, but the same recruiters are in such a demand that they too are scarce, which means their fees have never been here. [00:53:17] In house tech recruiter, salaries are up about 30% organizations looking for help in cloud and cybersecurity positions have increased fees. They're offering two recruiting services to as high as 45% of the first year salary. Isn't that something that's a Robert half. I should have them on the show. They have been on a few times in the past, this particular lady who left her job, where she was always being courted and started freelance recruiting before the lockdown back in 2018. [00:53:55] But there are big challenges are frankly going beyond finding just regular humans. The New York times says is that people are talking to potential hires. The recruiters have a big picture view of just how quickly the market is moving. And they've got to course take that and translate it into something that hiring managers would understand. [00:54:17] And that's a fine line. Between, Hey, I'm trying to help you out here. You really should pay attention. And this is a hard sell right solely. It's a really interesting line. And we're also finding that of course of the candidates themselves are getting a lot of money. Salaries are way. Pop and for a good reason, people are in demand, especially if you have the skills. [00:54:44] And so many people just don't want to work anymore. I have a couple of ways. I've looked at this over the years. I have what I call the McDonald's test. I don't think I've been to McDonald's in more than a year and I was on a road trip at the time, but it's how good is the service at McDonald's? [00:55:02] Because if typically the service at whatever retail store you go to is pretty good. It usually means, wow. People are looking for jobs and it's hard to find a job. So you've got basically overqualified people working there on the other end. People who are working in the customer service retail space, which unfortunately, that's your face? That's your company. The people that answer the phone or the talk to your customers, those are the people who are out front. So in dealing with those people, w are they the best or the worst? If there are a lot of open positions while typically, and I hate to say this, but typically they're not your best employees. [00:55:49] So that's kinda my McDonald's test. Did I get great service at McDonald's or Wendy's or burger king or at the mall? Or did I not get great service? And right now, We're not getting great service, any of those sorts of places. It's actually been more than a little frustrating. And sometimes even at the local coffee shop, it's been a little frustrating. [00:56:10] The other thing, this is surprised me. Th this was this week right now. I've never been a. Another words, just in other words I, it doesn't matter to me if someone's younger or older certainly you can get to a age where there's senility. The other obvious problems with mental function look at president Biden, frankly, and some of the issues he has at least from time to time. [00:56:38] But other than that, I'd never have. So I was really surprised when I was reading an article that. And it was talking about your resume if you want to get hired. And I'm going to run through some tips here because I spent some time doing some more research on this. You guys know, I'm not a spring chicken. [00:56:58] I'm not an old man. The brain's obviously functioning just fine. And that's a good thing. Probably will be well into my eighties. Hopefully nineties that's been the history in my family. I at you're 60 years old, even 70 years old, you still got a lot of good years left in you. So when I'm looking at this and saying, okay, I, what I do is what's called a fractional Cecil, fractional chief information security officer for businesses. [00:57:28] So what I do is I go into a business part time because I limit myself to somewhere between three and four. Customers at a time. And I have a team behind me that helps with all of the paperwork, the documentation, for all the compliance and everything else. It's out there. And as I'm doing all of this stuff for the company I'm bringing them in compliance with the cybersecurity regulations and in a lot of industries, if you're not in compliant, you're in big trouble. [00:58:00] Okay. Then that makes sense. I think to most people. So I was thinking, okay, how can I promote my fractured? Chief information, security officer stuff. I tied it up a little bit of my LinkedIn page. I really got to get some stuff together on my Craig Peterson page and mainstream page as well, which is my company. [00:58:21] But I am, I've done what I've done. So I started doing a little research saying what sort of stuff should I have out there on LinkedIn or other places? And this is where I really got surprised. And this is where the aid just stuff comes. And that is. Everybody. And I did a whole bunch more research on this and everybody says if your older do not even put dates on the resume of when you did things, don't put anything on the resume. [00:58:51] That's more than 10 or 15 years old. And if you've got experience from back then, like I do, I could go in and be a cobalt programmer today. I did a lot of COBOL goading back in the seventies. IBM assembler. I did a lot of that. I even did 65 0 2 assembler for those that might remember that chip. [00:59:10] And I've done a lot of kernel work over the years. See is my language of choice and was for years as I maintained and developed code for the Unix kernels. So all of that. Out the window. And what you do is you put it under additional experience. And even if you're saying, Hey, listen I've been doing this. [00:59:30] Like I've mentioned to you guys before that I have what, over 35 years of cybersecurity experience and it's legit, right? You guys know I've been helping to develop the internet since the early 1980s, like 81 is when I got going a little bit in 83 is when I was into it pretty much full time. But apparently that's unknown nowadays. [00:59:55] So instead of saying, Hey, listen, I've got 40 years of actually I've got closer to 45. I started in 75. I think it was in networking. IBM, networking, the old RJE and stuff. That's a no. I should say 10 plus years of computer network experience, because apparently what's been happening is these machine learning tools that hiring managers are using our age just now businesses are using them because of this problem we just talked about here from the New York times, recruiters are even getting hard to find. [01:00:37] And employees are some in some towns, some cities wages are up 10% in the it area, just in general, let alone cyber secure. So you've got to go through automated systems now, as opposed to a person that's always been tough dealing with HR because HR, they, they don't know the business. They certainly don't know the jobs. [01:01:02] They just got some bullet points, outlines that they're working with. So w we'll talk about this more. When we get back, I'm going to go through some points here, Korn ferry, and others have a lot of good points. And as I said, we should probably try and get Robert half on at some point they're local here. [01:01:19] So anyways, visit me online, sign up right now, Craig Peter sohn.com and stick around. Cause we've got a lot more to go. [01:01:28] We talked a little bit about the jobs, what it looks like out there, what recruiters are doing. I'm going to review here now the resumes, really? What should you have on them? Particularly if you're a little. Older like me.  [01:01:44] New York times. Great article about this. And I am also going to show you this other little article from wired here. We're going to go full screen for those of you watching here online, but the tech companies are really getting desperate. This is a chief economist over Dorsha. Published in a report saying the people are resigning at the highest rates since 2009. [01:02:14] Huge numbers are leaving the labor market entirely and more than 80% do not want a job. The highest on record since 1993. That's absolutely amazing looking at these numbers. So this whole great resignation as it's called has really widened the gap. Let me make these, this text a little bigger for you guys. [01:02:39] And there have been some huge gaping holes. In the workforce out there. S I T in general is really looking for people big time, cybersecurity, also looking for people. And I'm in the process right now of hiring a couple more. And let me tell you, it's more difficult than it's ever been before. In it alone. [01:03:05] This, again, this is according to wired. 31% of workers actively sought out a new job between July and September last year. That's the highest amongst all industries, according to Gartner guys that make all this, these studies that they sell to businesses, data from global. Knowledge found 76% of global. [01:03:27] It decision-makers are dealing with critical skills gaps on their teams, multiply the problem across other tech roles. And it's clear that there's a massive skills shortage and it's just amazing. They have. Sign on bonuses on top of sign-on bonuses, they're trying to move. Hey, we've got better snacks. [01:03:49] And Facebook does out there in the bay area of California. They're having people working from home now. It's Hey, if you want to work from home, you can. Most people are w one of my sons just got a job. He. Performing kind of a CSO function. Like I do. He's worked with me for more than 10 years and that he is just working from home. [01:04:14] He's never actually stepped foot in the office and he has been doing everything virtual, including the whole interview in process. Absolutely amazing. So they're calling this stuff a golden. Hello. In the business already saying, Hey, I didn't get one of those. Yeah. Cause you've been working there for five years, but everyone internally recognizes it's an unusual situation. [01:04:40] And for us to continue to grow, we need to be. Competitive there's sign-on bonuses and they found those have not been effective in the it world because candidates are looking to maximize the opportunity to get much higher salaries elsewhere. Now, I did a proposal. I'm working with a company right now, and I did a proposal for them to provide some of these fractional chief information security officers. [01:05:08] Function. I'm helping to define where they need to go, how they need to get there. I'm doing all the documentation on everything I'm working on, the HR policies everything, including securing the networks, helping them get the hardware, running it, renting them stuff right off the bat so that they can secure themselves very quickly. [01:05:27] Whole bunch of stuff that I'm doing for. And it, frankly, I think it makes a lot of sense, but how could they possibly hire somebody like me? How could they hire someone like my son? So I went online to glass door. You might know about that website, glassdoor.com. It lets you check out businesses. What jobs might they have open and look at reviews from an employee's standpoint of. [01:05:57] Glassdoor is pretty good for that. And I looked at salaries right now. Somebody like me, that is a CSO makes between 250 and $900,000 a year, depending on the size of the county. Now that's real money. Last time I checked, even with the inflation that we're looking at right now, I don't know. Maybe I won't keep up with it. [01:06:23] I saw some inflation numbers. Of course, they move these out of the consumer price index because it would make it look bad. But some of these inflation numbers are over 20%. It's just not. So thank a salary, 250,000 to just shy of $900,000 a year. Salary. Plus load, which you have to add normally what about 30%? [01:06:48] And then plus all of the equipment, plus the CSO needs a team, everything else. This is a huge problem. And they need to be hiring people to fill those jobs they use. These are just amazing. Permanent remote positions in the us doubled from 9%, 18% during the last quarter of 2021 doubled in the last quarter of last year ladders. [01:07:18] And. All on jobs. This is according to the ladders. Okay. And it could increase to 25% by 2020 since making the transition to remote. First, we have been able to broaden our hiring options globally and not be restricted to a talent pool in one area. Now that's an interesting thing too, and that presents some interesting problems. [01:07:42] It's one thing to manage people who are out of the. Upbringing as you are that have the same standards that you are and hiring somebody from somewhere else in the world, they're going to have different expectations. And boy, have I found that by hiring teams in India, Russia, and the Philippines, as well as the us. [01:08:08] Big differences. So you gotta be, you gotta be careful with all that. Okay. So I promised I would get here into resumes for people like us, right? This is not what they say. And this is particularly interesting to me because again, I'm still working and I do it on a contract basis, obviously. I provide these services. [01:08:29] This is something I think that applies to me too. So I'm pulling up a page. You can see on the screen, this is from the muse.com and it's called smart moves, age proof resumes for older workers. Okay. And they have four of them set up and they've got a nice picture of a lady. Looks like she's working from home with age, comes, wisdom and experience. [01:08:51] That's why I was shocked. When I saw what was going hot and right. Where they were going ahead and saying, don't put anything on your resume. That makes it look like you're older. Okay. The quote here is age-ism is an unfortunate and very real part of the job search for older workers. And for some, it can start to creep into their experience as early as their forties. [01:09:17] Isn't that incredible? Absolutely incredible. It's, I kinda dealt with this way back when, in the eighties, because I was younger then obviously than I am now. And there's this impression, at least there was, and it seems just still be around. But somehow if you're working with newer technologies, you need young people to do. [01:09:40] That is not true. As I've said a million times, there's only a few ways that you can code something. So if you're a programmer and you want to solve a problem, there's really only a few ways to do it. In fact, there's books published with algorithms. That's the. Programmed stuff, right? The core of the programming that show you how to do things. [01:10:04] So w we'll be back in just a minute, take a minute. Visit me online. Craig peterson.com. I love to see you there. And when we get back, we're going to finish this discussion, but it's an important one for employers as well as employees here, because I think many businesses are making a huge mistake. Craig peterson.com. [01:10:32] We just talked some more about hiring. Age-ism the problems that come with that for both the employer and the employee. And we're going to get now more into this from the muse. We're going to talk about the four things you should be doing with your resume. [01:10:48] There's there's a lot to be said for having experience. I mentioned about how businesses who are hiring programmers should really rethink the idea of hiring the young guy that knows the latest programming languages. [01:11:07] Because again, There are so many things that you need to know besides how do you code this line? It's what Google did for many years. It probably still does. They don't want you to necessarily write a program in go, which is Google's latest, cool language, but they want you to solve a problem. They want to see your problem solving skills. [01:11:32] How are you going to do it? Nobody has more skills than someone that's been doing that for decades. Again, there's only so many ways to program something. I don't care what language you're using. We used to have a saying, you can write COBOL in any language, but it's true. That's all we used to say. [01:11:53] So when it comes to it in general, the older the person is the more experience they have in the field. The better off they're going to be with your company. Because again, there's only so many ways to break into a computer. Yeah. There's the latest, greatest virus out there, but managing people, managing expectations, working with senior staff, doing presentations for investors. [01:12:23] That's the sort of thing that takes experience. How do you get that experience? There's only one way and that's to get the experience. It takes time learning a new programming language for a programmer, not a big deal at all. Again, there's only so many ways to do something and a programmer like me. [01:12:41] That's done a lot written hundreds of thousands of lines of code, and at least a dozen computer languages. Pick it up. A new language is easy. I picked up Python and was able to be programming in it. Using API APIs online, all of the newest ways of programming and interfacing with other backend systems. [01:13:03] I was able to write something that was putting together a whole bunch of cybersecurity stuff from scratch in the matter of a couple of hours on a language I'd never used before. Okay. How do you deal with that? It's the question of the hour, right? So let's have a look at this article here from the muse. [01:13:24] They've got some suggestions for us. No. If you've been in the work case for workplace, excuse me, for decades, you've got a lot of experience, but putting it all down can be a real liability. I remember I used to have a a dossier. I had a resume, which was like a one pager. Then I had a dossier. The one on for 30 plus pages of all the things I had done. [01:13:51] I wrote some of the very first I designed and implemented and used for a customer, some of the very first firewalls ever made routers, load sharing. But do I want to put that all on the resume? Probably not, but I understand that technology extremely well. So the resumes don't have to be a single page, but it's saying, remember it doesn't have to be a memoir. [01:14:19] It doesn't have to be like my dossier going through everything to prove your worth. And what they're saying here specifically. This is a Gary Sussman. It's just a marketing tool whose sole purpose is to land you an interview. It doesn't have to be exhaustive and comprehensive just has to show that you can solve the problem. [01:14:40] The hiring manager is hiring someone to solve and the beauty right now, again, if you're in the it, if you're in cybersecurity is they need. People. So it's going to be easier to get through. And if you are an older person who has learned a bit about cyber security, maybe taken an online course or two, that you have a much better job or a chance of getting hired for job than you probably have ever had. [01:15:06] Okay. It goes on and on employers are most interested in how your recent work ties back to the job that you're applying for rather than your experience 15 years ago. Okay. That makes sense. So dedicate more resume space to detailing the positions you've held over the past to 10 to 15 years that are related to the job. [01:15:30] Number two, do not date yourself. No. I mentioned earlier in the show that most businesses now are using some form of machine learning call it artificial intelligence, whatever you might want to call it, but they are doing the initial cuts. So they're looking for buzzwords that's for sure. Okay. And. [01:15:53] What they're also looking for

Totally unprepared, completely lost, and a reaction based individual is not what you want in the leader of the “free” world. Putin, like Hillary Clinton, is a snake slithering around looking for weakness and pouncing when the time is right. Well guess what folks, the time is right. Biden has played into this tyrants hands and we are all going to pay the price.

This week we take inspiration from a recent discussion on our Facebook Group.  There seems to be a perception that as we get older, we're less likely to attend live shows.  In fact, some people simply stop going to concerts once they reach a certain age.  Why is that?  While we don't fall into that camp, we would love to hear from those who do.  So, what do you think?Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/SchizoMusic)

This one small thing may be easy to overlook but could TOTALLY brighten your day (and someone else's!) RESOURCES: https://www.icanhelp.net/ SURVEY: https://survey.happybrain.fm Join our Community! https://tlbc.co/community Instagram: http://instagram.com/happybrainfm Heather's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/heatherparady/ Website: http://tlbc.co/happy-brain --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

Do you want to learn my secret for effectively communicating the outcome of my program, while also speaking really specifically to the things that my ideal client is struggling with?I am so excited to talk about this topic today because this is something that I have been really leaning into in my business. But it's something that I used to be in a lot of resistance around early on.In today's episode you'll learn:Why your ideal client actually wants you to “spy” on them! The three secrets that will make you look like a mindreader.How to get your ideal client to give you everything you need to market to them on a silver platter.When you finish listening, I'd love to hear what you think! Take a screenshot of you listening on your device, share it to your Instagram stories and tag me, @jess.oconnell_! Or join us in the Facebook group to share your takeaways! Or slide into my DMs, I'd love to hear what your biggest takeaways are! Subscribe and Review!Thank you so much for tuning in, and see you here next time on The Launch Fix Podcast!! Make sure you're subscribed so you're the first to know as soon as new episodes drop, and to get access to exclusive bonus content we reserve only for our subscribers.When you leave us a five-star review, we might feature it on an upcoming episode and give YOU a shout-out right here on the show! Just click here to review, select “Ratings and Reviews” and “Write a Review” and let me know what you love most about the podcast. Your reviews really do help people find the show, and I LOVE hearing from listeners like you!Follow us!www.jessoconnell.comhttps://www.instagram.com/jess.oconnell_/https://www.facebook.com/groups/thelaunchfixpodcast

Do you think love is worth the risk of death for Mass Effect 2's Tali'Zorah? Listen now to hear Jennasis and Virvada discuss filial piety, finding your family, and risking death for love. We also have a bonus interview with host of the Mass Effect Blue Shift podcast, Cyke88! Please like, subscribe, and leave a review! Watch live on Fridays at 10:30pm ET: https://www.twitch.tv/twogirlsoneship Follow us on all the socials https://linktr.ee/twogirlsoneship Advertise with us & business inquiries: twogirlsoneship@gmail.com Theme song: Take It Back by Miracle Of Sound from https://www.miracleofsound.rocks Mass Effect Blue Shift Podcast on Twitter @me_blueshift Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Would the diner really be open if the ceiling was falling?!?! Scott has strong opinions about Lorelai's behavior at the Spa. Will you agree or disagree...nobody can predict!? Why did Emily have such a strong reaction after the dance with Chad and was it justified or TOTALLY out of line?! Paris really came through for Rory. Scott has one unique theory as to why but the rest of us aren't so sure. And, oh boy...did you like the Dean / Jess Showdown on the steps of the Gilmore house? What do we think about Rory lying??!?! LYING!! And, if you think the hunt for the Clown Pillow is fun...wait until you see what we found in the kitchen! Vicious Trollops unite! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Totally Minnie Mouse is the first event at Tokyo Disneyland and Tokyo DisneySea in almost two years! We discuss what we think of this event and thoughts on the food, entertainment, and merchandise.

This week we talk about the YA mystery book The Cousins by Karen M. McManus. Cat reveals what happens in The Quarterback as promised in our last episode, Cat and Val go on a tangent about how good Buffy The Vampire Slayer is (Totally book related...) and they certainly don't shy away from telling you exactly how they ended up feeling about The Cousins! Feel free to follow and interact with us on our socials. Beware we discuss spoilers! IG: @whatyoumademeread Twitter: @mademereadpod Tik Tok: @lookwhatyoumademeread

I will be giving my opinion on The Biden Administration allegedly giving money to for grants to fund giving crack addicts in underdeveloped communities crack pipes. I hope you all enjoy. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/devan-shepard/message

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In this episode, the Trulls continue their deep dive into Horny Goddesses of the Forgotten Realms with Loviatar and Beshaba (with a little bit of Tymora sprinkled in for extra flavor).

Joshua Broome was once one of the biggest male porn stars. Lost, confused, and depressed, he left it all behind, became a husband and dad — and is now a pastor. Listen to his incredible testimony and learn more about how Richard, Brittni, Joshua, and others are coming together to create a course that can help set you free from porn addiction.