Outer Brightness: From Mormon to Jesus

Hi fireflies! Matthew and I have finally returned. In this episode we talk about a book project that we both worked on, providing chapters to the book Responding to the Mormon Missionary Message: Confident Conversations with Mormon Missionaries (and Other Latter-day Saints). The book is published by Aneko Press and is out now, available direct from the publisher or from Amazon. Order "Responding to the Mormon Missionary Message" at the following locations: Aneko Press (Publisher): https://anekopress.com/product/respon... Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Responding-Mor...

In this episode, we welcome a listener, Sarah Bateman to Outer Brightness. She recently shared with us that she has listened to about 2,400 minutes of the podcast. She joined us to talk share her experiences meeting with LDS missionaries and sharing the good news with them. She also posed some questions to us to get our insights as former LDS missionaries into how best to reach those young men and women with the biblical gospel of Jesus Christ. Coinciding with this episode we are running a giveaway of five copies of Micah Wilder's book, "Passport to Heaven: The True Story of a Zealous Mormon Missionary Who Discovers the Jesus He Never Knew." To receive this book for free, navigate to our Outer Brightness Facebook discussion group, find the post for this episode, and be one of the first five to request a copy.

“Lions, and tigers, and bears. Oh my!” Textus Receptus, and Modern Critical Text, and Comma Johanneum. Oh my! The Apostate Paul, here. No sooner had I began attending a Christian church back in 2010, and declared myself an “ex-Mormon Christian” online did Latter-day Saints begin to challenge my belief in the Bible as the reliable Word of God. I quickly learned of critical Biblical scholars like Bart Ehrman, and had to bone up on terms like those above. I had to try to make sense of the many debates around text-types, and the impacts they have on English translations of the Bible. As I did so, I wondered how my former co-religionists were so knowledgeable on these topics when they were fairly new to me. Was it because I didn't attend BYU? Is that where they learned to use such tactics to bolster the LDS claim to additional Scripture? As I studied, I reached tentative conclusions that I discussed with others on Facebook as these issues came up. “So the Comma Johanneum isn't in the earliest manuscripts, does that necessarily mean that it was an intentional corruption of the text? And even if it isn't original, so what? Textual criticism can trace to where it seems to have been introduced in the transmission of the text.” When I did so, I was challenged vigorously by a KJV-only Christian. It was a veritable mine field to try to navigate as a new Christian trying to defend his faith against volleys from Mormon online apologists. I struggled to get my mind around the breadth of the topic of textual criticism. Part of the answer for me was to attend a Christian Seminary to seek a degree in Biblical Studies. Not everyone can do that. In this episode we welcome Dwayne Green to help listeners get the lay of the land regarding this topic. He's very knowledgeable and has a YouTube Channel that is very helpful. Follow him if you want to dig deeper into topics related to textual criticism of the Bible. https://www.youtube.com/@Dwayne_Green

In this episode, we welcome Sandra Tanner to the podcast. She joined us earlier this year to discuss her transition from Mormonism to Christianity. Many who go through an LDS faith crisis end up jettisoning Christianity and religion altogether. We asked Sandra to talk about why she kept Christianity after deconstructing Mormonism.  It was a pleasure to have Sandra on Outer Brightness, and to have had the opportunity to meet her in person at the Utah Lighthouse Ministry Bookstore in Salt Lake City in September.

Hey Fireflies! Long time no post. Big apologies. In this episode, Matthew and I give an update on what's been going on in our busy lives and talk about the relaunch of Outer Brightness: From Mormon to Jesus. We're glad to be back, and hope to hear from you soon!

Do Latter-day Saints hate the creeds of historic Christianity? Do they have their own creed? What about the Apostles' Creed, which historian Philip Schaff has called the “creed of creeds”? Justin S. Holcomb in his book Know the Creeds and Councils has written, “Perhaps more than any other profession of faith, the Apostles' Creed has expressed the essentials of Christianity in a way that Christians of all stripes can rally around.” Could Mormons agree with each article of that creed without hesitation? We discuss these things and more in this episode.

In this episode, Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist and the Apostate Paul comment on a debate (?) held on November 13, 2021 between the three amigos of the YouTube channel, Midnight Mormons, and Radio Free Mormon. The video has been posted to the Heart of the Matter, the Midnight Mormons, and the Mormon Discussion, Inc. podcast channels and, to date, has racked up 43K views. The pre-debate drama was amped up, perhaps purposefully to draw an audience, and the fireworks continued during the debate. It was not a formal debate, and the participants went off-format for much of the evening, leaving Matthew and I asking whether this was in fact a debate. We comment on that and several of the points made by each side. Link to the debate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU0LSzicsT4

This episode we finish our discussion of the LDS Gospel Topics Essay, "Mother in Heaven." Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist kicks off the episode with a question about why the doctrine of a Mother in Heaven is considered authoritative doctrine when the direct support for it amounts to hearsay that Joseph Smith taught it along with the fact that it made it into an LDS Hymn. He notes that the doctrine that Adam was God has been declared to be heresy by subsequent LDS leaders even though Brigham Young taught it and claimed that Joseph Smith taught it. We hope that the rest of this conversation is helpful.

Michael dropped by Outer Brightness to discuss the LDS Gospel Topics Essay on the LDS doctrine of a Mother in Heaven. In this first part of the conversation, they discuss how they viewed thsi doctrine when they were LDS and whether or not they felt an affinity for the doctrine. Finally, they discuss each of the passages from LDS canon that are cited in the essay as supportive of the doctrine.

This episode, we kicked off our short, “Things Mormons Hate” series, in which Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist and the Apostate Paul discuss Jonathan Edwards' important sermon, “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God.” There are two parts to our discussion. In this second part, we discuss our thoughts about Edwards' sermon and include a reading of the sermon. We hope you enjoy this conversation and presentation of “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God.” If you are outside of Christ, flee to the mountain!

This is our 100th episode, and we have a special treat for you, fireflies! This episode, we kick off our short, “Things Mormons Hate” series. Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist and the Apostate Paul discuss Jonathan Edwards' important sermon, “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God.” There are two parts to our discussion. In this first part, we talk about our understanding of God's wrath when we were LDS, passages in LDS canon that reference the wrath of God, how we understand the wrath of God juxtaposed with the love of God, the danger of a theology that focuses solely on the love of God, people in church history who have attempted to create theologies that separate the love of God from the justice of God, and whether or not there are people today who seek to do the same. We hope you enjoy this conversation.

In this episode, Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist and the Apostate Paul discuss the proof texts that are used within Latter-day Saint teachings regarding the LDS testimony. They ask questions of the texts, such as: Are they being used in context? What might they mean if they mean something different than how they are used in LDS teachings? Come along with us for the ride.

Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist and the Apostate Paul were invited by our friend Jeremy Howard to go on the Do Theology Podcast to answer some blunt questions. This is the second part of that interview.

Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist and the Apostate Paul were invited by our friend Jeremy Howard to go on the Do Theology Podcast to answer some blunt questions. This is the first part of that interview. In this installment, Jeremy asks us to revisit our transitions out of the LDS Church, and then asks us if we really experienced a burning in the bosom in our efforts to gain a testimony of the LDS Church and the Book of Mormon. 

In this episode, Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist and the Apostate Paul wrap up their conversation with Aaron Shafovaloff. Here they discuss a number of dilemmas that Aaron has documented but not yet written into article form. Our goal here is to think through LDS theology, taking it out to its logical conclusions. We hope you enjoy this episode.

This week we continue our discussion with Aaron Shafavoloff about his article Dilemmas of Mormon Exaltation. We cover wrap up a dicussion of his second dilemma, "2. Expanding Godhead vs. overlapping godheads" and cover his fourth dilemma "4. Exhaustible vs. infinite pool of coeternal intelligences," and wrap up with his thrid dilemma "3. Shared vs. independent dominion between gods."

This week Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist and the Apostate Paul welcome Aaron Shafavaloff to Outer Brightness. He joined us to discuss his article “Dilemmas of Mormon Exaltation.” Aaron spent nearly three hours with us, and we're excited to share these with you. In this first installment, we introduce Aaron and his article and discuss the first dilemma he enumerates and begin a discussion of the second.

In this episode, The Apostate Paul and Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist welcome Latter-day Saint, Jaxon Washburn, back to Outer Brightness. They discuss Episode 37 "The Humanity and Divinity of Jesus Christ" from Y Religion, the podcast of the BYU Religion Department. In that episode, Professor Jason Combs is interviewed about an article he wrote. Jaxon sent us the podcast episode and we thought it would be a good opportunity to discuss the differences and similarities between LDS and Christian views on this topic. We hope you enjoy this conversation!

In this episode, we welcome a Latter-day Saint guest to Outer Brightness. Tarik D. LaCour is a PhD candidate in Philosophy at Texas A&M University. In this second installment of our conversation with Tarik, we discuss the LDS view of eternal laws that are external to God, and ask Tarik what he thinks about the Christian view that morality is rooted in God's perfect nature. We also discuss the Trinity and ask Tarik what other moral or philosophical questions about non-LDS Christian beliefs he thinks are the most difficult for LDS to understand or make it difficult for them to embrace. Thank you for joining us. You can connect with Tarik on Facebook and request access to his blog: http://humefootnotes.blogspot.com/

In this episode, we welcome a Latter-day Saint guest to Outer Brightness. Tarik D. LaCour is a PhD candidate in Philosophy at Texas A&M University. The topic of free-will (or moral agency) is deeply intertwined with LDS theology. Philosophically, Tarik holds to the position of soft determinism. That position is often called Compatibilism, and is the view that human free-will is compatible with God's omniscience. Compatibilism is the position often taken by Calvinists. Latter-day Saints are typically Libertarian when it comes to the concept of free-will, and some even adopt the Open Theist view, which holds that God does not have exhaustive foreknowledge of future events. In this first installment, we get to know a bit about Tarik's background and philosophical interests, and we dig into the theological point (uncreated intelligence/intelligences) that divide LDS cosmology from Christian cosmologies, and touch on why LDS think their view is superior (i.e. that it better accounts for the problem of evil). If these topics interest you, then join us for a fun discussion. You can connect with Tarik on Facebook and request access to his blog: http://humefootnotes.blogspot.com/

In this episode, Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist and the Apostate Paul continue the conversation with Steve James. In this final installment, we continue the dialogue around the definitions of “inspiration” and “revelation,” the idea that the use of Ancient Near Eastern texts by Old Testament writers is “polemical,” the Divine Council Worldview of Dr. Michael S. Heiser. We also begin discussing the Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy and questions Steve posed regarding several if it's articles, and the perspicuity of scripture. Is revelation from God to prophets and apostles needed today? We discuss several ideas that Steve posed as areas where Christianity is adopting views more closely aligned with Mormonism, a common LDS apologetic method. Here are some resources for listeners to explore more about the topics we discussed in these episodes: Scripture Alone: The Evangelical Doctrine by R. C. Sproul https://www.amazon.com/Scripture-Alone-Evangelical-Doctrine-Sproul/dp/1596389540/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=Scripture+Alone&qid=1629646329&s=books&sr=1-4   Supernatural: What the Bible Teaches About the Unseen World - and Why It Matters by Dr. Michael S. Heiser   https://www.amazon.com/Supernatural-Bible-Teaches-Unseen-Matters/dp/1577995589/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1629646416&sr=1-2-spons   The Bible Among the Myths: Unique Revelation or Just Ancient Literature?  by John N. Oswalt https://www.amazon.com/Bible-among-Myths-Revelation-Literature/dp/0310285097/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&qid=1629646184&refinements=p_27%3AJohn+N.+Oswalt&s=books&sr=1-1&text=John+N.+Oswalt

In this episode, Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist and the Apostate Paul continue the conversation with Steve James. In this second installment, we continue the conversation of the eighth LDS Article of Faith as it relates to the claim in 1 Nephi Chapter 8 in the Book of Mormon that plain and precious truths were removed from the Bible after the Early Church received the Hebrew Bible from the Jewish people, we talk about translations (JST vs. ESV), other modern books that claim to be revealed Scripture, proper definitions for the terms “inspiration” and “revelation,” and the concept of Biblical authors “borrowing” from source texts (e.g. Ancient Near Eastern texts).

In this episode, Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist and the Apostate Paul welcome Steve James to Outer Brightness. Steve is a Latter-day Saint that we have dialogued with in various Facebook groups. Steve and Paul were having a spirited dialogue about the doctrine of Biblical Inerrancy in one of the groups and we decided to invite him on the program to continue the conversation. In this first installment, we introduce ourselves to each other to give context to the topic, and begin the discussion of Biblical Inerrancy with a conversation about the eighth LDS Article of Faith and a proper definition of Biblical Inerrancy.

In this episode, Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist and the Apostate Paul read and respond to the LDS Gospel Topics Essay titled, Are Mormons Christian? Covered here in Part 2 are the other two main sections of the article "Latter-day Saints Believe in a Restored Christianity" and "Latter-day Saints Believe in an Open Canon," as well as the "Conclusion." We hope you enjoy this conversation.

In this episode, Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist and the Apostate Paul read and respond to the LDS Gospel Topics Essay titled, Are Mormons Christian? Covered here are the "Introduction" and first main section, "Latter-day Saints Do Not Accept the Creeds of Post-New Testament Christianity". We hope you enjoy this conversation.

In this bonus episode, Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist and the Apostate Paul sit down to discuss why we study theology.

It's the end of an era, the beginning of something new. Bye Flournicia.

In this final episode of Season 5 of the Outer Brightness podcast, Michael & Briana join Matthew and Paul to discuss Michael's article “The Iron Rod and the Escalator of God.” In this article, Michael focused on the topic of sanctification and how that plays out in the Christian's life. We hope you enjoy this conversation! Michael's article can be found here: https://fromwatertowine.org/the-iron-rod-and-the-escalator-of-god/

This week the Apostate Paul and Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist welcome Steven Pynakker to Outer Brightness. Steven is a charismatic Christian whose YouTube channel, Mormon Book Reviews, has taken off over the past few months. Steven has an interest in Mormon history and is very well read. He reviews books about Mormonism on his channel and interviews Mormon authors and historians, as well as others interested in Mormon history. He has shown that it is possible for Christians and Mormons to dialogue in respectful ways. We hope you enjoy this conversation. Link to our episode on Steven's Channel, Mormon Book Reviews: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lOy8ZVA09k

This week the Apostate Paul and Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist welcome Steven Pynakker to Outer Brightness. Steven is a charismatic Christian whose YouTube channel, Mormon Book Reviews, has taken off over the past few months. Steven has an interest in Mormon history and is very well read. He reviews books about Mormonism on his channel and interviews Mormon authors and historians, as well as others interested in Mormon history. He has shown that it is possible for Christians and Mormons to dialogue in respectful ways. We hope you enjoy this conversation. Link to our episode on Steven's Channel, Mormon Book Reviews: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lOy8ZVA09k

This week, you get to join me (The Apostate Paul) as a (fire)fly on the wall for a conversation between Michael the Ex-Mormon Apologist and his brother David, a Latter-day Saint. They talk most days during their commutes, and we think that this models how to how to have effective conversations about the gospel and doctrine with family, while maintaining those important relationships.

This week, you get to join me (The Apostate Paul) as a (fire)fly on the wall for a conversation between Michael the Ex-Mormon Apologist and his brother David, a Latter-day Saint. They talk most days during their commutes, and we think that this models how to how to have effective conversations about the gospel and doctrine with family, while maintaining those important relationships.

Hey Fireflies! Welcome to this bonus episode of Outer Brightness: From Mormon to Jesus. The Apostate Paul here. I'm recording a new intro for this episode, because since Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist and I recorded this episode on July 1, the state of affairs has changed. So in this intro, I'm going to provide a quick timeline. In 2012 or 2013, the LDS Church began publishing Gospel Topics Essays designed to allow church members to learn about difficult topics in LDS Church history and doctrine directly from the Church's official website, rather than other online sources. These essays have the imprimatur of the First Presidency of the LDS Church and acknowledge the reliance on the work of scholars in crafting the essays. In the early 2000's, when I was in the midst of my period of deep questioning and wrestling with my Mormon beliefs—what many call a faith crisis—there were many online apologetics resources, FAIR, SHIELDS, Ask Gramps. I remember that in the discussion boards, if someone posted an article from one of those resources in response to a question, it was often lamented that LDS Church leadership did not put their stamp of approval on those answers. Struggling members wondered if they could trust the apologetic resources. Many surmise that The Gospel Topics Essays were designed to do just that—to inoculate church members against difficult topics. The relationship of the LDS Church to the essays, however, has been thorny. The essays are not easy to find on the website, and you won't stumble on them unless you know what you're looking for. Many who have left over the past 7-8 years have cited the essays as sources that caused them to question their beliefs and noted that when they spoke with local ecclesiastical leaders about the essays and the questions they caused, many local leaders were not even aware of their existence. On June 23, Fred Anson shared with us that one of the Gospel Topics Essays—the one titled “Becoming Like God”—had disappeared from the LDS Church's website, but was still available in the Gospel Library app available for mobile devices. Matthew and I had already discussed doing a series of episodes on the essays, so we fast tracked this one. We recorded this episode on July 1st. At that time, the link for the “Becoming Like God” essay was still on the website: churchofjesuschrist.org, but it redirected to a different essay titled “Are Mormons Christian?” The disappearance of the “Becoming Like God” essay was widely noted in online ex-Mormon communities, and many were speculating that maybe the LDS Church was seeking to distance itself from the doctrines discussed therein—doctrines which perhaps more than any other LDS doctrines place Mormonism outside the mainstream of orthodox Christian beliefs. The fact that the link redirected to an essay aimed at answering the question “are Mormons Christian?” furthered that speculation. On Tik-Tok, an ex-Mormon named “Exmo Lex” noted that the Frequently Asked Questions section of the Newsroom section of the LDS Church website expressly denies that Latter-day Saint scripture or doctrine teaches that exalted Mormons will get their own planets, even though LDS leaders have taught that as doctrine for almost two centuries and as recently as 2018, when current LDS prophet and president, Russell M. Nelson taught the traditional LDS doctrine on this point when he said, "A fourth gift from our Savior is actually a promise—a promise of life everlasting. This does not mean simply living for a really, really, really long time. Everyone will live forever after death, regardless of the kingdom or glory for which they may qualify. Everyone will be resurrected and experience immortality, but eternal life is so much more than a designation of time. Eternal life is the kind and quality of life that Heavenly Father and his beloved Son live. When the Father offers us everlasting life he is saying in essence, “If you choose to follow my Son, if your desire is really to become more like him, then in time you may live as we live and preside over worlds and kingdoms as we do." It seemed odd that the LDS Church would seemingly be distancing itself from this doctrine, but the LDS Church has repudiated core doctrine and practice before. Over the weekend of July 3 and 4th, the essay in the mobile app began to disappear for those users whose apps had completed content refreshes. On the website no longer rerouted. It simply became circular, such that if you clicked the link for “Becoming Like God” you landed on another page with a link to “Becoming Like God.” It's almost as if the LDS Church was trolling and the link became like the “eternity mirrors” in the sealing rooms of their temples. Then on July 7th, the essay appeared back online. I used archive.org's Wayback Machine to pull a version from May 18th and compared it to the July 7th version to see if edits had been made. The only change was the removal of the original publication date of February 2014. So for now we close this odd bit of Mormon History still unsure why the essay disappeared for a couple weeks and which declaration of the LDS Church should be taken as doctrine: that made by the LDS Newsroom staff or that made by the current prophet and president of the church. Even so, Matthew and I read each section of the essay in this episode and discuss it. Link to “Becoming Like God” Gospel Topics Essay https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/becoming-like-god?lang=eng Link to FAQ's # 11 & 12 https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/frequently-asked-questions Link to Russell M. Nelson's 2018 Christmas Devotional Address https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOIxEU2trOk Link to referenced podcast episodes about Origen https://wordandtable.simplecast.com/episodes/origen https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-first-centuries-part-07-origen/id435665417?i=1000382806203 https://historyofphilosophy.net/origen

Hey Fireflies! Welcome to this bonus episode of Outer Brightness: From Mormon to Jesus. The Apostate Paul here. I'm recording a new intro for this episode, because since Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist and I recorded this episode on July 1, the state of affairs has changed. So in this intro, I'm going to provide a quick timeline. In 2012 or 2013, the LDS Church began publishing Gospel Topics Essays designed to allow church members to learn about difficult topics in LDS Church history and doctrine directly from the Church's official website, rather than other online sources. These essays have the imprimatur of the First Presidency of the LDS Church and acknowledge the reliance on the work of scholars in crafting the essays. In the early 2000's, when I was in the midst of my period of deep questioning and wrestling with my Mormon beliefs—what many call a faith crisis—there were many online apologetics resources, FAIR, SHIELDS, Ask Gramps. I remember that in the discussion boards, if someone posted an article from one of those resources in response to a question, it was often lamented that LDS Church leadership did not put their stamp of approval on those answers. Struggling members wondered if they could trust the apologetic resources. Many surmise that The Gospel Topics Essays were designed to do just that—to inoculate church members against difficult topics. The relationship of the LDS Church to the essays, however, has been thorny. The essays are not easy to find on the website, and you won't stumble on them unless you know what you're looking for. Many who have left over the past 7-8 years have cited the essays as sources that caused them to question their beliefs and noted that when they spoke with local ecclesiastical leaders about the essays and the questions they caused, many local leaders were not even aware of their existence. On June 23, Fred Anson shared with us that one of the Gospel Topics Essays—the one titled “Becoming Like God”—had disappeared from the LDS Church's website, but was still available in the Gospel Library app available for mobile devices. Matthew and I had already discussed doing a series of episodes on the essays, so we fast tracked this one. We recorded this episode on July 1st. At that time, the link for the “Becoming Like God” essay was still on the website: churchofjesuschrist.org, but it redirected to a different essay titled “Are Mormons Christian?” The disappearance of the “Becoming Like God” essay was widely noted in online ex-Mormon communities, and many were speculating that maybe the LDS Church was seeking to distance itself from the doctrines discussed therein—doctrines which perhaps more than any other LDS doctrines place Mormonism outside the mainstream of orthodox Christian beliefs. The fact that the link redirected to an essay aimed at answering the question “are Mormons Christian?” furthered that speculation. On Tik-Tok, an ex-Mormon named “Exmo Lex” noted that the Frequently Asked Questions section of the Newsroom section of the LDS Church website expressly denies that Latter-day Saint scripture or doctrine teaches that exalted Mormons will get their own planets, even though LDS leaders have taught that as doctrine for almost two centuries and as recently as 2018, when current LDS prophet and president, Russell M. Nelson taught the traditional LDS doctrine on this point when he said, "A fourth gift from our Savior is actually a promise—a promise of life everlasting. This does not mean simply living for a really, really, really long time. Everyone will live forever after death, regardless of the kingdom or glory for which they may qualify. Everyone will be resurrected and experience immortality, but eternal life is so much more than a designation of time. Eternal life is the kind and quality of life that Heavenly Father and his beloved Son live. When the Father offers us everlasting life he is saying in essence, “If you choose to follow my Son, if your desire is really to become more like him, then in time you may live as we live and preside over worlds and kingdoms as we do." It seemed odd that the LDS Church would seemingly be distancing itself from this doctrine, but the LDS Church has repudiated core doctrine and practice before. Over the weekend of July 3 and 4th, the essay in the mobile app began to disappear for those users whose apps had completed content refreshes. On the website no longer rerouted. It simply became circular, such that if you clicked the link for “Becoming Like God” you landed on another page with a link to “Becoming Like God.” It's almost as if the LDS Church was trolling and the link became like the “eternity mirrors” in the sealing rooms of their temples. Then on July 7th, the essay appeared back online. I used archive.org's Wayback Machine to pull a version from May 18th and compared it to the July 7th version to see if edits had been made. The only change was the removal of the original publication date of February 2014. So for now we close this odd bit of Mormon History still unsure why the essay disappeared for a couple weeks and which declaration of the LDS Church should be taken as doctrine: that made by the LDS Newsroom staff or that made by the current prophet and president of the church. Even so, Matthew and I read each section of the essay in this episode and discuss it. Link to “Becoming Like God” Gospel Topics Essay https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/becoming-like-god?lang=eng Link to FAQ's # 11 & 12 https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/frequently-asked-questions Link to Russell M. Nelson's 2018 Christmas Devotional Address https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOIxEU2trOk Link to referenced podcast episodes about Origen https://wordandtable.simplecast.com/episodes/origen https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-first-centuries-part-07-origen/id435665417?i=1000382806203 https://historyofphilosophy.net/origen

Hey Fireflies! Welcome to this bonus episode of Outer Brightness: From Mormon to Jesus. The Apostate Paul here. I'm recording a new intro for this episode, because since Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist and I recorded this episode on July 1, the state of affairs has changed. So in this intro, I'm going to provide a quick timeline. In 2012 or 2013, the LDS Church began publishing Gospel Topics Essays designed to allow church members to learn about difficult topics in LDS Church history and doctrine directly from the Church's official website, rather than other online sources. These essays have the imprimatur of the First Presidency of the LDS Church and acknowledge the reliance on the work of scholars in crafting the essays. In the early 2000's, when I was in the midst of my period of deep questioning and wrestling with my Mormon beliefs—what many call a faith crisis—there were many online apologetics resources, FAIR, SHIELDS, Ask Gramps. I remember that in the discussion boards, if someone posted an article from one of those resources in response to a question, it was often lamented that LDS Church leadership did not put their stamp of approval on those answers. Struggling members wondered if they could trust the apologetic resources. Many surmise that The Gospel Topics Essays were designed to do just that—to inoculate church members against difficult topics. The relationship of the LDS Church to the essays, however, has been thorny. The essays are not easy to find on the website, and you won't stumble on them unless you know what you're looking for. Many who have left over the past 7-8 years have cited the essays as sources that caused them to question their beliefs and noted that when they spoke with local ecclesiastical leaders about the essays and the questions they caused, many local leaders were not even aware of their existence. On June 23, Fred Anson shared with us that one of the Gospel Topics Essays—the one titled “Becoming Like God”—had disappeared from the LDS Church's website, but was still available in the Gospel Library app available for mobile devices. Matthew and I had already discussed doing a series of episodes on the essays, so we fast tracked this one. We recorded this episode on July 1st. At that time, the link for the “Becoming Like God” essay was still on the website: churchofjesuschrist.org, but it redirected to a different essay titled “Are Mormons Christian?” The disappearance of the “Becoming Like God” essay was widely noted in online ex-Mormon communities, and many were speculating that maybe the LDS Church was seeking to distance itself from the doctrines discussed therein—doctrines which perhaps more than any other LDS doctrines place Mormonism outside the mainstream of orthodox Christian beliefs. The fact that the link redirected to an essay aimed at answering the question “are Mormons Christian?” furthered that speculation. On Tik-Tok, an ex-Mormon named “Exmo Lex” noted that the Frequently Asked Questions section of the Newsroom section of the LDS Church website expressly denies that Latter-day Saint scripture or doctrine teaches that exalted Mormons will get their own planets, even though LDS leaders have taught that as doctrine for almost two centuries and as recently as 2018, when current LDS prophet and president, Russell M. Nelson taught the traditional LDS doctrine on this point when he said, "A fourth gift from our Savior is actually a promise—a promise of life everlasting. This does not mean simply living for a really, really, really long time. Everyone will live forever after death, regardless of the kingdom or glory for which they may qualify. Everyone will be resurrected and experience immortality, but eternal life is so much more than a designation of time. Eternal life is the kind and quality of life that Heavenly Father and his beloved Son live. When the Father offers us everlasting life he is saying in essence, “If you choose to follow my Son, if your desire is really to become more like him, then in time you may live as we live and preside over worlds and kingdoms as we do." It seemed odd that the LDS Church would seemingly be distancing itself from this doctrine, but the LDS Church has repudiated core doctrine and practice before. Over the weekend of July 3 and 4th, the essay in the mobile app began to disappear for those users whose apps had completed content refreshes. On the website no longer rerouted. It simply became circular, such that if you clicked the link for “Becoming Like God” you landed on another page with a link to “Becoming Like God.” It's almost as if the LDS Church was trolling and the link became like the “eternity mirrors” in the sealing rooms of their temples. Then on July 7th, the essay appeared back online. I used archive.org's Wayback Machine to pull a version from May 18th and compared it to the July 7th version to see if edits had been made. The only change was the removal of the original publication date of February 2014. So for now we close this odd bit of Mormon History still unsure why the essay disappeared for a couple weeks and which declaration of the LDS Church should be taken as doctrine: that made by the LDS Newsroom staff or that made by the current prophet and president of the church. Even so, Matthew and I read each section of the essay in this episode and discuss it. Link to “Becoming Like God” Gospel Topics Essay https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/becoming-like-god?lang=eng Link to FAQ's # 11 & 12 https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/frequently-asked-questions Link to Russell M. Nelson's 2018 Christmas Devotional Address https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOIxEU2trOk Link to referenced podcast episodes about Origen https://wordandtable.simplecast.com/episodes/origen https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-first-centuries-part-07-origen/id435665417?i=1000382806203 https://historyofphilosophy.net/origen

In this episode, Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist and the Apostate Paul deal the dirt, and talk about your friend and our friend, Herman. Who's Herman? Hermeneutics: The Art and Science of Biblical Interpretation. How should we read and understand the Bible. If a passage is difficult to understand, what are the steps to unpacking the author's intent? We tackle these questions and more in this episode. Check out these other resources: What Is Biblical Hermeneutics? Hermeneutics: Principles and Processes of Biblical Interpretation by Henry Virkler and Karelynne Ayayo

In this episode, the scions of light wrap up conversation on a topic that an LDS missionary listener named Jeremy asked them to discuss. The doctrine of creation, and whether God created ex materia (from existing materials) or ex nihilo (from nothing), is a key point of departure between Mormonism and Christianity. Here we discuss how it affects other doctrines and practices and dig into some of the Biblical support for creatio ex nihilo. If you're interested in reading some of the discussion of this topic that we had with some latter-day saints, check out these FB threads: Post about the episode at the Facebook discussion group: Evangelicals and Latter-Day Saints. Post about the episode at the Facebook discussion group: Mormons and Biblical Discussion Group.

In this episode, the scions of light tackle a topic that an LDS missionary listener named Jeremy asked them to discuss. The doctrine of creation, and whether God created ex materia (from existing materials) or ex nihilo (from nothing), is a key point of departure between Mormonism and Christianity. Here we discuss how it affects other doctrines and practices. You can read Paul Copan's (Christian) defense of the doctrine of creatio ex nihilo against the claim that it was a later development in church history here. William Lane Craig's (Christian) article "Creation ex nihilo: Theology and Science" can be read here. His article "Creatio ex nihilo: A Critique of the Mormon Doctrine of Creation" is here. Blake Ostler's (Mormon) response to Craig and Copan "The Doctrine Of Creation Ex Nihilo Was Created Out Of Nothing: A Response To Copan And Craig" can be read here.

In this episode, Michael and Paul welcome Rich Hoyer to the program. Rich is a pastor of a church in the Louisville, Kentucky area. He's also heavily involved in apologetics, planning and hosting the annual Reveal Conference, which brings Christian apologists to the Louisville and Indianapolis areas. Rich dropped by to share his thoughts on why Christian apologetics is important. Check out Rich's blog Damming Pop Religion. Watch an onlinea sermon he preached for for Lyndon Christian Church on Ephesians 2:8-9 titled "The Beauty of Grace."

In this episode, we bring you part two of an interview we conducted with Fred Anson. Fred is the driving force behind Beggar's Bread, a Christian blog where Beggars share the bread that they've so freely and graciously received. Before Fred converted to Christianity in the 1970's he was an atheist. Early in his life as a Christian, he became enmeshed in a high-demand, Christian cult called the Shepherding Movement. Fred visited Outer Brightness to share his story, and what he learned about mind-control from his time in the Shepherding Movement and from leaving that movement. Read Beggar's Bread here. Contact Fred Anson here.

In this episode and the next, we bring you an interview we conducted with Fred Anson. Fred is the driving force behind Beggar's Bread, a Christian blog where Beggars share the bread that they've so freely and graciously received. Before Fred converted to Christianity in the 1970's he was an atheist. Early in his life as a Christian, he became enmeshed in a high-demand, Christian cult called the Shepherding Movement. Fred visited Outer Brightness to share his story, and what he learned about mind-control from his time in the Shepherding Movement and from leaving that movement. Read Beggar's Bread here. Contact Fred Anson here.

In this episode, two of the scions of light (Briana and Matthew) interview Matt Wilder of Adam's Road Ministry. Matt composes beautiful original piano pieces and adds to them spoken word readings from Scripture. Adam's Road Piano is one of his creative outlets. He visited Outer Brightness to discuss his journey from Mormon to Jesus and what he's currently doing with the Adam's Road Ministry. We hope you enjoy this interview. Learn more about Adam's Road Ministry here. Check out Adam's Road Piano here. Subscribe to Adam's Road Piano on YouTube here.

In this episode, two of the scions of light (Michael and Paul) interview Micah Wilder of Adam's Road Ministry. Micah's book Passport to Heaven will be released on June 1, 2021. He dropped by Outer Brightness to talk about his story, his ministry and his book. We hope you enjoy this interview.

In this episode, the scions of light look back on the series of episodes they've done on the LDS Articles of Faith. They each share and discuss some of their favorite moments from that series.

In this bonus episode, the scions of light announce the addition of Bri the Christ-Warrior Princess to the Outer Brightness. They also look back on Year 1 of the podcast and share some of their favorite moments that made it into episodes, as well as some that didn't. Finally, they share some exciting news about current developments related to distribution.

In this episode, two of the scions (Matthew & Paul) get together to discuss the 13th LDS Article of Faith and discuss the question: "What about morality?"

The scions of light continue and wrap up their discussion of LDS Article of Faith #10 related to the gathering of Israel. Last episode they talked about some LDS folk doctrines related to the lost 10 tribes. Listen to this episode to find out if our intrepid podcasters can locate the money quote from Joseph Smith about a literal changing of blood to make one a descendant of Abraham.

The scions of light have discuss LDS Article of Faith #10 related to the gathering of Israel. They discuss some of the unique LDS teachings and folk doctrines surrounding this topic and juxtapose those ideas with what they now believe as Christians about the gathering of Israel.

The scions of light discuss an article by Michael titled "The Vicarious Atonement: A Proclamation to Latter-day Saints." Read the article here: https://fromwatertowine.org/the-vicarious-atonement-a-proclamation-to-latter-day-saints/

The Resurrection of Jesus Christ is the most important event in human history. Romans, chapter 1, verse 4 states that Jesus was “declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.” In other words, the Resurrection was God's powerful declaration of Jesus as His Son. As we celebrate Resurrection day today, our topic is the Resurrection. We hope you enjoy this discussion!

In this episode, the sons of light continue their discussion of the Gifts of the Spirit. They tackle questions about whether the gifts were evident in Old Testament believers, what the gifts are, if there are different categories of gifts, and whether or not the gifts (all of them) continue. We hope you enjoy this conversation!