Not Another Dog and Pony Show

Where we sit down with Erin Lynes to talk about that Fetch post making the social media rounds, how many Labradors are too many, and what "fetch" means to different people - and dogs.Also, the Fetch equivalents with horses, being mindful of what patterns we're building with animals, and another Matthias story about why he's a lousy dog trainer.Erin's Fenzi Dog Sports Academy Classes⁠⁠⁠Topic or guest suggestions? Fan mail? Hate mail? We love to hear from you all! Email ⁠notanotherdogandponyshow@gmail.com⁠

Where we sit down together to talk about our echo chambers, avoiding self-radicalization, and what we both find reinforcing on social media posts.Also, Matthias unknowingly reveals his dog trainer crush, Lauren confesses to being a lousy dog trainer, and we hash out some potential problems of having your beliefs become your identity. ⁠⁠⁠Topic or guest suggestions? Fan mail? Hate mail? We love to hear from you all! Email ⁠notanotherdogandponyshow@gmail.com⁠

Where we sit down with Erika Percival Stark to talk about concerns with AI, how we might use AI ethically to do our metaphorical laundry, and where we might want to tread more carefully. Also, how theft of IP ain't really a new thing, what ChatGPT doesn't know about how women urinate, and another awkward Mattinglish story. ⁠Erika Stark LinkedIn And if pStyle wants to sponsor the pod, Lauren is game. ⁠⁠⁠Topic or guest suggestions? Fan mail? Hate mail? We love to hear from you all! Email ⁠notanotherdogandponyshow@gmail.com⁠

Where we sit down together to talk about our first season as people who podcast, Lauren's scepticism of chia seeds, and whether we are as 'balanced' in our training approaches as some might think. Also, highlights from the year that was, hopes for the future of animal training and b mod, and Matthias' regimented bathing regime. Thank you all, for being part of this journey! ⁠⁠⁠Topic or guest suggestions? Fan mail? Hate mail? We love to hear from you all! Email ⁠notanotherdogandponyshow@gmail.com⁠

Where we sit down with Kim Brophey for an edifying discussion about what we should consider when talking about the welfare, well-being, and best interests of the animals we work with and love. "...and it's interesting, because if we look at the incredible rise in behavior problems, and the severity, the increased and severity of behavior problems, it goes in tandem with the increased level of captivity that has been imposed upon pet dogs. And that shouldn't be surprising if we're looking at it through the lens of applied ethology." Also, a brief interlude for a yard bear, 'diseases of domestication', and the difference between hiding symptoms and finding cures. Kim's website Family Dog Mediation Professional LEGS Course (Kim has very kindly offered up a discount code dogandpony for 30% off the main LEGS course and the bundle with The Hacky Pack (including payment plan options)) The Dog's Truth video ⁠⁠⁠Topic or guest suggestions? Fan mail? Hate mail? We love to hear from you all! Email ⁠notanotherdogandponyshow@gmail.com⁠

Where we sit down with Sarah Dixon for a frank discussion about a harm-reduction approach to animal training, why our reinforcement-minded messaging is failing to reach the right people--our animal-owning clients, and the benefits of gap-bridging. "We're not going to change the knowledge that they have if we don't build trust; we're not going to build trust if we attack them." Also, Matthias' gratitude to Sarah for her approach to newbs, Lauren's training-minded adaption of the National Harm Reduction Coalition's guiding principles, and what this episode actually should have been called. ⁠Barks and Recreation website⁠ ⁠Sarah's online training school⁠ ⁠Lauren's harm reduction principles adaptation⁠ ⁠⁠⁠ Topic or guest suggestions? Fan mail? Hate mail? We love to hear from you all! Email us at ⁠notanotherdogandponyshow@gmail.com⁠

Where we sit down with Jeff Silverman for a discussion about the benefits of allowing the owner to be the main decision maker in the owner-trainer business relationship, the perils of ignoring the end user's needs, and ways to honour what the client really wants while also meeting the animal's needs. "My clients are the experts in what they need, and I am the expert in what is possible." Also, the reality that your client is likely not a big ol' training nerd, Matthias' reflection on his use of the word 'lazy' in the last episode, and Lauren's post-recording realization that we could make an effective podcast drinking game by taking a drink every time she blames certifying bodies for things. Sorry, Listeners! Training Tracks Goal Orientated Approach Article Training Tracks Website Topic or guest suggestions? Fan mail? Hate mail? We love to hear from you all! Email us at notanotherdogandponyshow@gmail.com

Where we sit down in a cheap motel room with Dr David Lane for a discussion about some differences in how we approach animals for veterinary care and training or behaviour modification work: giving clients treatment options and causing animals tolerable stress or discomfort. Also, having the willingness to refer to another professional if something is outside of your wheelhouse, respecting client autonomy, and the difficulties of trusting professionals to do their work. ⁠Predation Substitute Training⁠ Topic or guest suggestions? Fan mail? Hate mail? We love to hear from you all! Email us at notanotherdogandponyshow@gmail.com

Where we sit down with Dr Sam Couper for a discussion about what science is (and isn't), and how research about training and behaviour may (or may not) be relevant to our work as boots-on-the-ground animal training and behaviour professionals. Also, Lauren's justification for feeding dogs ice cream cones, 'publish or perish' in academia, and a case for the dreaded 'doing your own research'. Sam's website Sam's IG Sam's Facebook Sam's TikTok Topic or guest suggestions? Fan mail? Hate mail? Email us at notanotherdogandponyshow@gmail.com

Where we sit down with dog trainer Kristi Walker for a frank discussion about her personal journey in moving away from using harsh training, led by experiences with her own dog. Also, Kristi & Bren's turning point, our very normal, human reactions to criticism from others, and possible ways to better effect change in our industry. Ideal Canine website Ideal Canine IG Fan mail? Hate mail? Guest or topic suggestions? notanotherdogandponyshow@gmail.com

Where we sit down with Verena Sutherland for a discussion about her journey through the stages of being a crossover trainer, the pain of changing your beliefs, and who - if anyone - identifying labels serve. Also, how constructional approaches might be the gateway drug to paradigm shifts, having discussions about 'amputation-equivalents' in our industry, and Lauren escapes having to publicly say 'I drink lemonade gladly', in German. IG Reward Your Dog Training TT Reward Your Dog Training Website Reward Your Dog Training Reward Your Dog Training Podcast Patreon Fan mail? Hate mail? Topic or guest suggestions? Email us @ notanotherdogandponyshow@gmail.com

Where we sit down once again with Sarah Stremming for a timely talk about recent events in the Olympic horse world, the harms of subjective judging in sport, and using values to guide our competitive natures. Also the lifelong effects of putting sparkly pink whips into children's hands, selective breeding of animals to 'wear' pressure, and a discussion about if vilification of offenders is the most productive way we can move forward. Fan mail? Hate mail? Topic suggestions? Email us @ notanotherdogandponyshow@gmail.com

Where we sit down for a discussion about what happens if/when we can't give animals choice and control, minimizing behavioural injury, and the role of cognitive appraisal during what might be stressful events. Also a harrowing tale about Lauren's first combat roll whitewater kayaking, what not to say to a child who falls off a horse, and the motivating factors that get Matthias on scary rollercoasters. Dr Deb Jones' Cooperative Care titles Dr Amy Cook's Play Way Pony formerly afraid of oral meds Teaching a pony 'You have no choice here' Child and meteor cartoon Fan mail? Hate mail? Topic suggestions? Email us @ notanotherdogandponyshow@gmail.com

Where we sit down for a discussion about the efficacy of lecture-based versus hands-on learning, the importance of real-world, practical experience, and the debate over whether trainers should compete to validate their skills. Also, we discuss using The Bucket Game with children, who would win an escalator competition, and how Lauren isn't great at keeping what happens in Vegas, in Vegas. Learning by trying vs passive listening article The Bucket Game intro Pony receives oral meds video Fan mail? Hate mail? Topic suggestions? Email us @ notanotherdogandponyshow@gmail.com

Where we sit down with the rational Ruth Crisler for a discussion about the ethical considerations and practical applications of aversives in animal training, particularly within the positive reinforcement training community. Also, the importance of open, non-judgmental dialogue around the use of aversives, the need for clear and accurate definitions, and the potential for aversives to provide valuable information and enhance training efficiency. Ruth Crisler See Spot Run Matthias' Partners in Crime presentation Lauren's Understand Horses Courses Fan mail? Hate mail? Topic suggestions? Email us @ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠notanotherdogandponyshow@gmail.com⁠ --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/not-another-dog-pony-show/message

Where Matthias and Lauren discuss the concept - and helpfulness - of leadership and deference in animal training. Also, they explore the complexities of balancing giving direction and allowing choice, debate whether our social relationships with animals allow for the human construct of leadership, and Matthias shares a story that explains why he wasn't awarded Father of the Year. Again. Needle phobias/injection shyness in horses The 'Buzzy' device for needle-phobic children The 'Shot Blocker''s effect on pain perception in adults Fan mail? Hate mail? Topic suggestions? Email us @ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠notanotherdogandponyshow@gmail.com⁠ --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/not-another-dog-pony-show/message

Where Matthias sits down (sadly, without Lauren) with the philosophical Chad Mackin to talk about leash communication. Also, the importance of escape hatches when pushing close to thresholds, gentle communication pressure vs revenge pressure in training, and the power of letting learners think that their behaviour change is their idea and not something you imposed on them - whether dog, horse, or human. Chad's 'Rowing' technique for LLW: https://youtu.be/ncu_7jkPEBc?si=-lb_TYhcMGaPmK6a Chad's SHEARR method for LLW: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0woHgI-O9b0 Chad's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@chadmackin/featured Chad on IG: @chadmackin Chad on Substack: https://open.substack.com/pub/chadmackin Chad on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/BarkAbout Fan mail? Hate mail? Topic suggestions? Email us @ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠notanotherdogandponyshow@gmail.com⁠ --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/not-another-dog-pony-show/message

Where Lauren sits down (sadly, without Matthias) to talk with the cooperative care maven Monique Feyrecilde, about knowing your audience - whether dog, horse, or human client. Also, our moral obligation to not cause animals to be dangerous for others to handle in the future, the kind of truths that help people do better, and the importance of being a positive memory curator when working with animals. Monique's website: https://www.teachinganimals.com/ Monique's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCh_FWbiDsBpF7d_i5ID4GoA Fan mail? Hate mail? Topic suggestions? Email us @ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠notanotherdogandponyshow@gmail.com⁠ --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/not-another-dog-pony-show/message

Where we sit down for a few metaphorical and metaphysical beers with the icon Suzanne Clothier, and talk about how we view - and qualify - our relationships and (training) interactions with animals. Also, transactional relationships vs social relationships, how animal training certifying bodies might assess trainers without a quadrant emphasis, and Suzanne and Lauren tell us how they really feel about training captive cetaceans with positive reinforcement. Suzanne Clothier's website: https://suzanneclothier.com/ Mosquito in ASL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4Gwz2AT79o Pros and cons of marine mammals in captivity: https://www.marinebio.org/creatures/marine-life-in-captivity-exploring-the-pros-and-cons/ Violet, doing her tick impression: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Yqw_f26SvM Fan mail? Hate mail? Topic suggestions? Email us @ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠notanotherdogandponyshow@gmail.com --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/not-another-dog-pony-show/message

Where we lay Matthias down on the therapy couch and take a bit of a wild ride to talk about what he sees as the inherent selfishness of animal ownership. Also, we discuss rehoming animals, the mythical desert island of retired professional dog trainers, billionaire tourism, and who has a better life: the rodeo bucking horse or the show horse? Billionaire tourism podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/billionaire-tourism/id493536367?i=1000650933725 Fan mail? Hate mail? Topic suggestions? Email us @ ⁠⁠⁠⁠notanotherdogandponyshow@gmail.com --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/not-another-dog-pony-show/message

Where we talk about the animal training and behaviour video content we put out on social media: is showing our 'mistakes' or less-than-perfect training or behaviour sessions harmful or helpful? What can be lost or gained by sharing such posts? Also, we discuss 'before and after' training/behaviour videos, and Matthias' Jedi-like ways of staying open-minded while engaging with another trainer's content when he might disagree. Bonus: Matthias drops some S, D, and F-bombs, much to Lauren's delight. Finally. Matthias' 'fridge face': https://www.equinebehaviorist.ca/fridge-face Lauren engaging in what some might view as a training 'mistake' demonstration with her horse: https://youtu.be/cF2SGk9mZnc The Hidden Brain podcast on making mistakes: https://hiddenbrain.org/podcast/making-the-most-of-your-mistakes/ Fan mail? Hate mail? Topic suggestions? Email us @ ⁠⁠⁠notanotherdogandponyshow@gmail.com --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/not-another-dog-pony-show/message

Where we talk with our first-ever guest, the lovely Sarah Stremming about using punishment - effectively and humanely - during dog or horse training. Also, a discussion about what Sarah does differently now since the airing of her podcast episode on this same topic, choke chains on dolphins (?!), and how 'make them know they're wrong' might not be the best approach when using punishment. You can find Sarah and her offerings at: https://sarahstremming.com/ Or listen to the very Cog-Dog pod episode that got Matthias hankering to have Sarah on our pod: https://soundcloud.com/sarah-stremming/punishment-within-lima Fan mail? Hate mail? Topic suggestions? Email us at ⁠⁠notanotherdogandponyshow@gmail.com --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/not-another-dog-pony-show/message

Where we talk about under-discussed pitfalls that can occur when (poorly? inappropriately?) using positive reinforcement (R+) to train dogs and horses. Also, a discussion where Lauren womansplains to Matthias about male erections, and why it might not be cool for your animal to get an erection during training. A summary on erections in horses during R+ training: http://tinyurl.com/erectionduringhorsetraining Parts one and two of a survey on erections in horses during R+ training (not the full papers, unfortunately): http://tinyurl.com/part1erectionsduringtraining http://tinyurl.com/part2erectionsduringtraining Fan mail? Hate mail? Topic suggestions? Email us at ⁠notanotherdogandponyshow@gmail.com --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/not-another-dog-pony-show/message

Where we talk about what Lauren awkwardly calls a 'trolley problem problem' in our industry: a situation where whether you pull one lever or the other, there are going to be consequences and people may judge you either way. But should they? Who stands to gain if you pull the lever? And who stands to lose? Also, Matthias doesn't really want you to learn about punishment from the person who uses it all the time, Lauren wants a click and treat for limited swearing, and this trolley totally gets derailed. The trolley problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem Fan mail? Hate mail? Topic suggestions? Email us at notanotherdogandponyshow@gmail.com --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/not-another-dog-pony-show/message

Where we talk about the use of pressure to teach horses and dogs, issues within our industry related to pressure-based training, and how Lauren feels about Matthias' lozenge use. Lauren demonstrates teaching a person how their use of pressure feels to the animal: https://youtu.be/VqM97C3q9PA Matthias' favourite lozenges with which to annoy Lauren https://youtu.be/f42YGUKinJ4?si=4o_2yEONfutDqz4k Fan mail? Hate mail? Topic suggestions? Email us at notanotherdogandponyshow@gmail.com --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/not-another-dog-pony-show/message

Where you meet your hosts, animal behaviour and training professionals Lauren and Matthias, and hear them talk about why they wanted to start a podcast, how they met (not at all awkward), and why Lauren isn't called Rat Lauren. Matthias' Pedro the Fish https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100064202130880 Fan mail? Hate mail? Topic suggestions? Email us at notanotherdogandponyshow@gmail.com --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/not-another-dog-pony-show/message