Podcasts about Mona Siddiqui

19 MAR 26

On this episode, my guest is Hasan Kerim Güç. Kerim graduated from Istanbul High School in 1992 and from Yildiz Technical University in 1996. Between 1997-2004, he completed his master's degree in Information Systems and Business Administration in Baltimore, USA. He returned to Turkey in 2010. Realizing that the treasure he had been looking for for 14 years was right in his own home, he took the position of Chief Editor at Nefes Publishing House in 2014. Kerim nourishes his business life with Sufi studies and is pursuing a doctoral degree from the Usküdar University Institute for Sufi Studies. He has published four books.Show Notes* Rejecting the American Dream* Anatolian and Sufi Hospitality* Sufis and the Ottomans* Tanri misafiri (“God's guest”)* Togetherness, and the roots of Religion* When we welcome suffering, we make honey out of pain* Submission, servants and the prophet Mohammed* The Conference of the Birds / Stories from the Thirty Birds* Limits to hospitality in the Islamic world* Bereket / Baraka* Rumi's Guest HouseHomework* Kerim Vakfı* Stories from the Thirty Birds* Cemalnur Sargut: A Sufi Life of Love, Suffering, and Divine Union* Cemalnur Sargut Books* Kerim Guc - Instagram* Kyoto University Kenan Rifai Center for Sufi Studies* Ken'an Rifâî Chair of Islamic Studies at Peking University* University of North Carolina (UNC) Ken'an Rifâî Chair in Islamic StudiesTranscriptChris: [00:00:00] Welcome to the End of Tourism podcast, Kerim. Hoș geldiniz.Kerim: Thank you very much for having me.Chris: Yeah, it's my pleasure. Thank you for joining me today. Perhaps you could tell our listeners, where you find yourself and what the world looks like there for you.Kerim: Well, first of all, I'm an immigrant also. I was an immigrant. I lived in the US for a while, and then I came back to to my own country. And things are very different here than there, than it is in US. From the perspective of what I did... I was actually an engineer, and I was working in the IT fields, and I was living the American dream, and then I realized that there was some kind of an emptiness, and this whole thing, and I decided to go back to Turkey and [00:01:00] study Sufism, and since my mother was actually a Sufi teacher. She decided to actually move this whole Sufism into academia. So, she basically established an institute in Istanbul - Üsküdar Istanbul - at the University of Üsküdar. The difference between this institute and the other schools, the people like myself, like engineers, coming from different disciplines, including lawyers and whatnot, they were not able to do their masters or PhDs in Sufism, because in other universities, they require for you to actually have theology backgrounds. But with this new establishment, we were able to educate people from all different disciplines and, [00:02:00] so we basically concentrated on ethics rather than the religion itself.So, a lot of people coming from different areas, especially the white-collar people, living this, like - how do I say that? - it's a world of money and materialism and all kind of that stuff. They're coming to our institute and realizing that money or career is not the only goal for life.And we started to concentrating on things like spirituality more than the materialist world.Chris: Thank you. Well, I'm very much looking forward to exploring these themes with you and a little bit of the work that you do with Kerim Vakfı.Kerim: Sure.Chris: And so for the last season of the podcast, I'm very much interested in focusing on different hospitality traditions and practices from around the [00:03:00] world, as I mentioned to you. And, one of the key themes of the podcast is radical hospitality. Now, the word “radical” comes from Latin and it means “rooted,” or we might even say “local” or “living.”And so. I'm curious if there are any radical hospitality practices that you think are unique to your place, to Istanbul, or to the Sufi community that you might be willing to share with us today?Kerim: Well, Istanbul, actually, is a very metropolitan city. So like the other metropolitan cities, we kind of lost that - what we call the hospitality of Anatolia. Anatolia is basically the Eastern part of Istanbul. And in Istanbul, we have, right now, 25 million people in a very small area. And in older days when the population was smaller, [00:04:00] we were able to show our hospitality, because the Turkish hospitality is very famous, actually. In this area the hospitality is very famous, including the, you know, Greek and Arab hospitality. Usually, it's a little bit different than the western countries.For instance, we welcome people - we used to, and probably still, in the countryside - the people coming from other cities or countries or whatnot. The locals actually helped them out as much as possible. They even invite them to their own houses and let them stay for how long they want to stay. And this was kind of like a regular thing in the old days. It's still going on very much in the eastern side of Turkey, pretty much in the countryside. [00:05:00] But Istanbul, like other cosmopolitan cities, we kinda lost that. You know, neighbourly things. We have a lot of neighbours and we we have always good... we used to have a lot of good relationship with them, but nowadays, again, because of this material world, we kind of lost this hospitality.So from the Sufi point of view, hospitality is very important. It's interesting that you mentioned the “radical.” You were talking about where “radical” come from, but you didn't talk about where “hospitality” comes from. See, there is a relationship between the hospital and the hospitality and the way the Sufis look at things is very much like the illnesses in our body are our guests. So, we don't think that they're bad for you. They're actually [00:06:00] the guests of our house for a time being. So we show them the hospitality as much as we can, and then hopefully we say goodbye to them.Chris: Wow. Wow. That's fascinating. I do know that the term “hospitality,” hospital is part of that, and hospital historically came from these notions of hospitality. I mean, in the western world in, and at least in the Christian world, there's a kind of unauthorized history in which a lot of this hospitality, as you mentioned, that was offered to the stranger, was done by the families or the individual houses or homes within a community. A stranger would come and they would ask for hospitality, ask for food and shelter, and the family would have to decide whether to do that and how to do it. [00:07:00] And then at some point, the institution of the Church kind of stepped in and said, “you know what? You don't have to do this anymore. When the stranger comes to the community, when they show up at your door, just send them to us. Just send them to the church and we'll give them what they need.”And so this did a number of things, but the two most obvious ones, I think, are that the family, the individuals in the family and the community on a grassroots level, slowly ended up losing their ability, their unique kind of familial or personal ability to host the stranger. And at the same time, of course, the church used this as a way to try to convert, the stranger.Kerim: Right.Chris: And so I'm curious if there's anything in that realm that you see in the Islamic world, maybe in the Sufi world... you mentioned that, since the [00:08:00] imposition of modernity and the industrial Revolution in the world, we see less and less possibilities for small-scale, grassroots hospitality between people, in part, because there's so much movement, and of course, because the hospital has its brothers and sisters in the sense of the “hotel” and the “hostel.”Kerim: Absolutely.Chris: So, I'm curious if there's anything like that that comes to mind for you in regards to the Islamic world.Kerim: Well, one thing is about like the Ottomans. The Ottomans, when they were coming from the Anatolia and then started conquering all those places in the Balkan area, Greece and Bulgaria, Hungary and all those places, after they actually conquered, they sent Sufis to those places. And, like in Hungary, there is a person, his name is [00:09:00] Gül Baba, which means “Rose Father.” That's what they call him. He actually has his own tekke (tekke is like a church for Sufis). And this place, it's like a school more, more like a school, but it's a religious school.And in this tekke, he actually finds all those people with needs, and he pretty much helped them out with all those needs. And the people coming from different religions, they actually started liking people like from the Turks' point of view, because the Turks were symbolized by these Sufi movements. And instead of, you know, pushing people to convert or demolishing the churches and rebuilding mosques and stuff. Instead of that, they actually [00:10:00] welcomed people from all over the world, or all over the place, basically, to stay in the tekke, to eat and to get education in the tekke. So this was a great strategy of Ottomans. That's how they actually stayed in Europe for almost like 600 years. So that was very much like, you know, their strategy, I think. And in a good way.Chris: Yeah, you know, in my research I found out that there's still Sufi orders in the Balkans a group called the Bektashi.Kerim: Right.Chris: And of course, with the very little historical understanding that I had, I was very surprised. I had no idea. But of course, when I eventually went to visit the regions that my father is from, I saw churches, synagogues, and mosques, all in the same little neighbourhoods.[00:11:00] So, quite an impressive kind of understanding that the major religions in those places could coexist for so long. And that in the context of someone who grew up in North America, who thought it was the opposite (previously) and such things are so difficult.Kerim: Right. Right.Chris: So, Kerim, a mutual friend of ours has told me, that in the Turkish language, there is a phrase (and excuse my pronunciation). The phrase is tanri misafiri.Kerim: Right.Chris: Which translates into English as something like “God's guest.”Kerim: Right.Chris: Or “the guest sent by God.”Kerim: Right. Right.Chris: And so I'm wondering if you could speak about this phrase, maybe what it means to you and where you think it comes from?Kerim: Well, in Anatolia, it's a very famous phrase. And like I said previously, you know anybody coming from somewhere else, who comes into somebody's [00:12:00] house, is allowed to stay in the house as “the guest of God,” because we believe that God has sent that guest to us and we try to... you know, it's more like making that guest happy means making God happy. So, that's the understanding of older generations.In today's metropolitan areas, I don't think it's possible because of the security problems and everything. But like I said, in the countryside, people are very welcoming when it comes to this, because it is very important that knowing that person is actually coming from God, from Allah, so we have to take care of that person as much as possible to please God, actually.So that's how it is. I still see that in many cities in the [00:13:00] more eastern side of Turkey or south side of Turkey, or even north side of Turkey except in the bigger cities. But in the smaller cities, people are much more welcoming, again because of this specific idiom, actually.Chris: From tanri misafiri?Kerim: Right. Tanri means “God” in our language. In the original Turkish language, it's tanri, and, misafiri means “ the guest.”Chris: Yeah. So beautiful. Thank you for sharing that with us.Kerim: Absolutely.Chris: And so when guests arrive in a home, you know, in English, at least in, in the context of the older traditions, it is said that the guest or the potential guest, the stranger, asks for hospitality. They don't necessarily say “ they ask for food,” which we can imagine that surely they [00:14:00] do. They don't necessarily say that “they ask for shelter” or “accommodation,” which we surely we could imagine they do. But the literature often says they ask for hospitality.And so, when we think of hospitality today, we often think about people sitting around a table eating food together. And so I'm curious if there's a shared understanding among Sufis or at least the community that you live among and in, about the importance of both eating food and eating food together.Kerim: Togetherness is probably one of the most important things in the Islamic religion. Because like even our way of worshiping God - Allah - we try to do that in a union as much as possible. It is very interesting, the words that “religion” comes from.[00:15:00] Re- means “again,” and legion means “union.”So it's almost like “religion” itself means “to recreate the union,” “to reshape the union,” “ to have the union back,” because we have the tendency to be alone. And even you can imagine that in the western countries, in the western world, a lot of people want to be alone.Like, there's a lot of individuals rather than a group of people. And in the eastern world, it's a little bit different. We are more like family-oriented people. We try to do things together. I mean, there are advantages and disadvantages obviously, but there is a difference between them.So, we always had this [notion that] “the more is better,” basically. You know, more people is better. So, we help each other, [00:16:00] we understand each other, we talk about our problems. When we try to solve them, it's easier together. And if there's pain, you know, the pain actually, can be eased with more people, easier, I think, compared to have this pain alone. So, again, we're more family-oriented people.And the Sufi are very much like that. The Sufi always pray together, and they think that it creates a n energy, basically. It produces an energy that basically helps all of them at the same time, in a union.Chris: Hmm hmm. And do you find that sitting down for a meal together also creates that kind of union, or recreates as you were saying?Kerim: I think so. Doing any kind of activities, including eating... eating is basically the most common activity [00:17:00] that we do in our daily life and getting together, to talk about our things together, and discuss things together, all those things - togetherness, when it comes to the idea of togetherness - I think, is beautiful.Chris: Hmm, hmm. Amen. Yeah, I very much agree with that, Kerim.And so, when we think about hospitality, and we think about food, we often imagine big banquet tables and as you said, this sense of togetherness and celebration.But there's also, you know, from what little I've read, there's also this important aspect of the religious life in the Islamic world, and perhaps in the Sufi world as well that points to, maybe not the absence of food, but a different way of being fed, and a different way of feeding that doesn't [00:18:00] include the food we're used to, the kind of material food. And we often refer to this as fasting. And so, there's a beautiful video that you sent me, Kerim, of your mother speaking, and she recalls a phrase in that video from her own mother who said that “when we welcome suffering, we make honey out of pain.”And so, this is a question I very much want to ask you because I've fasted myself quite intensely. I'm curious, what is the honey that comes from fasting? Or, what do you think is the honey that comes from fasting?Kerim: Right? First of all, yeah, fasting is in our religion. So, we basically do that one month in the whole year. It's called Ramadan. In some cases, we actually do that because our Prophet Muhammad, when he [00:19:00] lived, he was fasting every Monday and every Thursday. So it was like a common practice for some of the religious people. And at least we do that one month in the whole year.And obviously, that month is a little bit difficult, you know, because we not only stop eating, we also stopped drinking and all that stuff. In theory, we should not be lying, we should not be telling bad things to other people or gossiping and all that stuff, but usually we do during that time. I mean, in theory, we should not be doing that.So it's like a whole discipline thing - the whole fasting. And at the end of the thirty days, you become a really, really different person. And first of all, one thing that [00:20:00] I feel, is that you understand the people who do not have food. We still have people in the world, unfortunately, in Africa, and all those places, the people, having less access to food as we do, and we feel like, oh yeah we don't actually thank God for all those things that he's giving to us. And this is the time that you start thinking about the reality and start thanking God for actually giving us all that food, twenty-four hours, seven days [a week]. And when you are fasting during that time, you are understanding the feeling of these people, who are like poor and who cannot eat.There are people now, in the social media, we are seeing people, who never had [00:21:00] chocolates in their life. The people living in these countries or in the cities or metropolitan cities, we never think about these things.So, we take these things for granted, and during that time of fasting, you start thinking about these stuff and then you become more thankful, and that's basically honey itself, after the suffering. And I wouldn't say “suffering,” because we don't suffer as much as they do, honestly.And we're just telling our egos, “just stop for a day to do bad things and stop eating,” and all that stuff that ego wants to have. And again, it's at the end of the thirty days, you become a new person because now you have a different mentality. Now, in the other eleven months, you still forget about these things, but [00:22:00] again, it comes through. It's like a cycle.Chris: Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree with you that, you know, gratitude is the honey and...Kerim: Absolutely.Chris: ...I remember the fasting that I did over the course of four years, and I don't know if it was as intense as the fasting that happens during Ramadan, but doing that fasting and trying to feed something other than myself for a time imbued a degree of hospitality and gratitude that I don't think I had ever felt before. And it sticks to me. It sticks to my bones to this day. And it's something that, like you said, I also have to constantly remind myself of those moments when I sit down to eat a meal, because it's so easy to forget.Kerim: Absolutely. Absolutely. And one thing is [00:23:00] basically during that time of fasting, you basically stop feeding your ego, and start feeding your spirit, basically. That's what I think.Chris: That's beautiful. Yeah. I absolutely understand that. Thank you, Kerim.So my next question is around the word “ submission.” So, translated into English, the word “Islam” means “submission.” Now I've read that this word can also be translated to mean “servants of God.” Servants of God.Now in English, the word “servant” can be synonymous with “host.” A servant and a host. Now, there's a book by an author named Mona Siddiqui called Hospitality in Islam. And in that book she writes, it's actually a quote, but she writes,“'What is faith?' The Prophet replied, ‘the giving of [00:24:00] food and the exchange of greetings.' He ends on a most dramatic note saying, “a house which is not entered by guests is not entered by angels.”Kerim: Perfect. Yeah.Chris: And it seems that in this phrase, the Prophet is suggesting that the way we are with guests and strangers has something to do with how we are with the divine, which I think you kind of alluded to a little bit earlier.And so I'm curious, is this something that you've seen in your own days or in those of others that you know? Is hospitality a practice that connects us to the divine?Kerim: Absolutely. Because reaching God, you need to reach people first. To be able to reach God... when I say “reach God,” meaning be in communication with Him, is basically being in a communication [00:25:00] with the people he created. So, to serve the people is basically serving him from the Islamic point of view.So, and that's a hadith that you mentioned in the book. It's a hadith of Prophet Mohammed, like you said. And Prophet Mohammed always... it was a common practice that he was hosting maybe, you know, 10-15 people every night. And he was a poor person, by the way. I mean, he doesn't have much money, much food or anything, but they share. There was a time that... there's a story that somebody, actually, one of his apostles rather, asks him to visit him for a dinner. So he invites him to a dinner.But during his conversation, Prophet Mommed said, “can I bring my friends too?”[00:26:00]And the apostle says, “of course you can bring your friends.” And he brings hundreds of people. Now, the host only have some bread, and maybe a little bit meat, and a little bit rice in the cup.So, he was ashamed because he doesn't have any money, and the Prophet Mohammed is going to bring all those guests together, and he didn't know what to do. But he uses submission, basically.He said, well, if Prophet Mohammed is coming, then something is going to happen. And as he was thinking all those things, Prophet Mohammed puts his hand on top of the rice holder. And every time he was putting rice onto the dishes, the rice never ends, the meat never ends. So he served like 200 people during this invitation and the food never ended.[00:27:00]So he was happy for his submission, basically.Chris: Wow. Beautiful. Thank you, Kerim.Kerim: Of course.Chris: You know, you have this beautiful book - that is still in the mail, unfortunately I haven't got my hands on it yet, but I'm very much looking forward to it - called Stories From the Thirty Birds, which I understand is inspired by The Conference of the Birds, this incredible book from I think the 1300s.And I'm curious if you could tell us a little bit about that book and what, if any inspiration or maybe teachings around hospitality that come from both, The Conference of the Birds and how you've employed it in your book.Kerim: Right. The Conference of the Birds is really a beautiful story of Farid ud-Din Attar who lived in Nishapur, which is in Khorasan, in Iran, today. And he was one of the very famous [00:28:00] Sufis at that time. He was the teacher of Rumi. A lot of people know Rumi. And he wrote this book about birds, millions of birds, who are in the process of going to their king, which is the phoenix (or what we call it simurg). And during that time, during that travel, they go through seven valleys, and in each valley some of the birds get lost, because the valleys actually symbolize things.Like, the first valley is the valley of intention. So, a lot of birds actually don't have the intention to reach their king. The king is basically symbolizing Allah (God), and the birds are symbolizing us very much, and we are getting [00:29:00] lost during the time of life. Like, our intention is basically this world. If our intention is staying in this world, then we stay in this world. And that's the valley of intention.And a lot of birds, like half of them, actually, get lost in this stage.And the second valley is the valley of love. And the birds that get lost in this valley are the ones that actually think the beauty is in this world, rather than they don't see the beauty of God himself. So they see the shadow of that beauty in the world, but they're content with that beauty, and they don't really want to move on.And again, the third valley is the value of wisdom. And the birds that get lost in this valley are the ones who think that knowledge, [00:30:00] in this world, is more important than anything else, and they don't realize the source of the knowledge is actually their king.So on and so forth, they go through the seven valleys and at the end of the seventh valley, only thirty birds remain. And the thirty birds, they're ready to see their king, and they go through this mountain called Qaf, where the  simurg, the phoenix lives (behind the mountain). And it's very difficult to get there, basically. When they get there, they can't find the king over there. They only find a mirror. So, they realize the king is themselves, but more specifically, the union of thirty birds. So simurg - the [00:31:00] phoenix - in Iranian, in Persian means “thirty birds,” actually. Si is “thirty.” “Burg” is “bird,” actually.So from what we understand is, the union of ourselves, what we are seeing, is our reflection, because the king is actually a perfect mirror. But we don't see ourselves, only, we see the union of thirty birds together. So there are birds that we don't think live together. For instance, a hawk doesn't live with a smaller bird together, but in this union, they live together. There in one. And they use whatever advantage they have together. So it's almost like being one and using the characteristics of every single bird [00:32:00] itself.Chris: And I imagine that someone growing up in a culture like that, whether back then or more recently, and hearing this story or hearing it multiple times throughout their life or maybe once a year, that that notion also might arise in the way that they are with others, the way they are with strangers.Kerim: Right.Chris: And so, I have one final question for you, if that's all right?Kerim: Absolutely.Chris: So, before we say farewell I'd like to ask you about Istanbul, and I'd like to ask you about the limits to hospitality. So, last year, on a trip I took to the city I met a friend of a mutual friend of ours, and for a couple of hours we walked around the Karakoy neighbourhood and he spoke to me about how the city has changed quite a bit over the last decade.For many people who grew up in Istanbul, the city [00:33:00] might now appear to be very difficult to live in. He said that the cost of living has skyrocketed. The rents, the rent prices or costs have doubled. And much of this is a combination of tourism and gentrification in the city.Now it seems that many religious traditions speak of the importance of welcoming strangers and offering them hospitality, but they also speak of the limits to such hospitality. In one particular, hadith or saying of the Prophet Mohammed, it is said that “hospitality is for three days. Anything more is charity or sadaqah.”Again, excuse my pronunciation.Kerim: No. That's perfect pronunciation.Chris: And so I'm curious, you mentioned a little bit earlier, in the Sufi community and perhaps in the Islamic communities, there is this notion of togetherness, but also that “more is better.” And so I'm [00:34:00] curious in the context of what's happening in Istanbul and what's happening in many places around the world, do you think there should also be limits to the hospitality that is offered to the guest or stranger?Kerim: Well, of course. I mean, of course we have financial issues here, and it's very difficult for us to actually serve other people as much as we want to. But again, when we are together, even if it's very difficult to live in the city, it's still something, you know?What I see: the rent went up, like you said, so the people try to move into their family houses, the houses there of their families and everything. And in western countries, it's difficult. You usually don't do this kind of stuff, but in our community, it's much easier to do these things. And, you know, the families welcome the children [00:35:00] more than other countries. So that's something I think that's a positive thing.But to the strangers. What do we do for strangers? Obviously, we do as much as possible. We may not be able to serve them as much as we used to, obviously, before this inflation. And we have the highest inflation in the world, or probably the second-highest inflation. So again, it's difficult, and Istanbul became probably one of the most expensive cities in the world. But even that, again, we may not be able to take them to dinner every night, but we serve what we have in the house, like in the Prophet Mohammed's story.Whatever we have, we share. And, we call it bereket, as in Arabic baraka, they call it. Baraka is something [00:36:00] like... we use it for money. It's not “more money.” That's not important. How do I say that? I don't even know how to say it in English, but it's more like “the luck of the money, itself.” Basically, you may be able to buy more stuff with less money based on your luck. That's basically what we call it. Bereket. So the bereket is much more important than the amount of the money or the financial thing. And the bereket always goes up when you share it.Chris: Beautiful. Yeah, I love that. I mean, in English, not to reduce it at all, but in English we say, quality over quantity.”Kerim: Yeah, absolutely.Chris: And you said that, in order to offer hospitality or the hospitality that we would like to offer to our guests, sometimes maybe that means not doing it all the time, [00:37:00] because one simply cannot. Right. It's not possible.Kerim: Right.Chris: But yeah, it's a really beautiful point.Kerim: Rumi is a very important Sufi, probably known by many Americans. Even the world knows him. He wrote a poem, which is about the guests. So, if you don't mind, I'm gonna read that, uh, it's called the Guest House and it goes like:This human life is a guest house. Every dawn, a new visitor arrives.A gladness, a sadness, a pettiness, a flash of insights all come knocking, unannounced.Welcome them all. Make room even if a band of sorrows storms inand clears your rooms of comfort.Still honour every guest.[00:38:00] Perhaps they empty you to prepare you for something brighter.The gloomy thought, the shame, the bitterness,greet them at the door with a smile, and lead them inside.Be thankful for whoever comes, for each is sent as a messenger from the beyond.So that's a poem by Rumi, and I think it pretty much explains the whole hospitality thing.Chris: Yeah, that's a gorgeous, gorgeous poem. I love that. I'll make sure that's up on the End of Tourism website when the episode launches.And so finally, Kerim, uh, I'd like to thank you so very much for being willing to join me today, to be willing to speak in a language that is not your first, or mother tongue, and to share with us some of the beauty that has touched your days. Before we say goodbye, [00:39:00] perhaps you could tell our listeners how they can follow and learn more about Kerim Vakfı, Stories from the 30 Birds, your book, and any other projects you might want them to know about.Kerim: We have a Sufi centre in North Carolina, at the University of North Carolina. We have a centre in China, Beijing University, and another center in Kyoto University in Japan. And my mother's book about the commentary of some Quranic verses is the one. For instance, Yasin is available through Amazon and my book Stories from the 30 Birds is available on Barnes and Noble and all that other places in US.Chris: Beautiful. Well, I'll make sure that those links are all available on the End of Tourism website and on my Substack when the episode comes out. [00:40:00] And on behalf of our listeners, tesekkur, tesekkur.Kerim: I thank you. Get full access to Chris Christou at chrischristou.substack.com/subscribe

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Alex Forsyth presents political debate from Ilkley Playhouse, Bradford

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You can't be moral on your own. That's a radical idea in this time of moral outrage, but thriving in public life requires a sense of mutual accountability, belonging, and hospitality for each other.Mona Siddiqui is a professor of religion and society, an author, commentator, and public intellectual, and she suggests that the virtues of loyalty, gratitude, hospitality, and hope can lead us through the common struggle of being human together, living forward into a thriving life of public faith and renewed moral imagination.As Professor of Islamic and Interreligious Studies, Assistant Principal for Religion and Society, and Dean international for the Middle-East at the University of Edinburgh, she is an international beacon of hope that we might find restoration, hospitality, and flourishing in our world of struggle. Working through questions of loyalty, responsibility, belonging, gratitude, robust faith, and what we owe each other, we can find abundant resources for thriving and spiritual health.In this conversation with Mona Siddiqui, we discuss:What is a moral life?The connection between faith, spirituality, and living a moral life of responsibility and integrityThe difference between cultivating virtuous character and doing justiceHow to thrive in a pluralistic society marked by constant struggle and conflictThe promise of gratitude and hospitality in a life of thrivingAnd how to pursue a hopeful, forward-looking approach to restoration in the wake of harm, loss, pain, and suffering.Episode Highlights"Our moral life only becomes alive when we are in a relationship—you can't be moral on your own.""Life is all about searching. Life is all about introspection. Life is all about reflection.""The good life is hard; it's not about ease, but about living with accountability and responsibility.""Hospitality isn't just welcoming—it's negotiating belonging, loyalty, and a sense of shared life.""Gratitude can liberate, but it can also create hierarchies and transactional indebtedness.""Hope is not naive optimism—without hope, how do you live, build relationships, or carry forward at all?"Helpful Links and ResourcesFollow Mona on X (Twitter) at @monasiddiqui7*Christians, Muslims, and Jesus,* by Mona SiddiquiHuman Struggle, Christian and Muslim Perspectives, by Mona SiddiquiA Theology of Gratitude: Christian and Muslim Perspectives, by Mona SiddiquiMy Way: A Muslim Woman's Journey by Mona SiddiquiThe Moral Maze, BBC Radio 4Show NotesMona Siddiqui's personal background in Islamic jurisprudence and public theology“I got into Islamic jurisprudence because of personal connection and intellectual curiosity.”Navigating public discourse post-9/11 as a non-white, non-Christian scholarImportance of pluralism and living within diverse identities"I need to create a space that appeals to a wider audience—not just about what I think."Growing up with intellectual freedom in a traditional Islamic householdHow faith upbringing seeds lifelong moral introspection"You are always answering to yourself—you know when you have not lived rightly."Developing comparative theology through seminars with Christian scholarsOverlapping themes between Islamic and Christian thought on the good lifeThe significance of accountability over blanket forgiveness"Belonging is crucial to being a good citizen—you can't flourish alone."Exploration of loyalty: loyalty to people vs loyalty to principlesCivic loyalty and critical engagement with the state“Because I feel loyal to my country, I should also be its critic.”The role of prayer in cultivating internal moral awarenessReflection on virtues: gratitude, loyalty, hopeThe dark sides of gratitude and loyalty in institutionsParenting with a focus on integrity, accountability, and faithfulness“Live so that whatever you say in public, you can say at home—and vice versa.”Emphasis on public engagement: speaking clearly, making complex ideas accessible"Radio became a gift—people want complex ideas made simple and meaningful."Remaining hopeful despite the culture of outrage and cynicismYoung people's resilience and persistent hopefulnessHospitality as a fundamental ethic for creating trust and belongingStruggle as a normative, transformative experience that shapes flourishing"Thriving is not just freedom—it's centering, writing, speaking, and deep human connection."The importance of relationships in thriving and flourishing“Most of us realize—relationships are the hardest, but the most rewarding.”Redefining gratitude: avoiding transactional gratitude, cultivating authentic gratefulnessStruggle cultivates introspection, resilience, creativity, and a deeper moral lifePam King's Key TakeawaysI can't be moral on my own. But my decisions are my own. In the end, living with integrity means living with virtue.Personal and public flourishing are deeply connected to our lives of faith and spirituality; and all of us need to bring the depths of our personal spiritual commitments into public life.We can offer hope and freedom from fear to each other when we expand our hospitality to all persons.The practice of gratitude in the face of our vulnerability is easier said than done—but is a strengthening response to uncertainty and suffering.And finally, human struggle is something we hold in common, and it can be redeemed for creativity, beauty, healing restoration, and a reminder of our dignity as human creatures.About Mona SiddiquiMona Siddiqui is Professor of Islamic and Interreligious Studies, Assistant Principal for Religion and Society, and Dean international for the Middle-East at the University of Edinburgh.Her research areas are primarily in the field of Islamic jurisprudence and ethics and Christian-Muslim relations. She's the author of many books, including Human Struggle: Christian and Muslim Perspectives,Hospitality in Islam: Welcoming in God's Name, and My Way: A Muslim Woman's Journey. A scholar of theology, philosophy, and ethics, she's conducted international research on Islam and Christianity, gratitude, loyalty and fidelity, hope, reconciliation and inter-faith theological dialogue, and human struggle.Mona is well known internationally as a public intellectual and a speaker on issues around religion, ethics and public life and regularly appears as a media commentator on BBC Radio 4 and BBC Radio Scotland's Thought for the Day and The Moral Maze.A recipient of numerous awards and recognition, she is a fellow of the Royal Society of Edinburgh, she gave the prestigious Gifford Lectures in Natural Theology. She was elected to the American Academy of Arts and Sciences as an International Honorary Member. And Dr. Siddiqui was appointed Officer of the Order of the British Empire, which is just steps below the highest Knighting—specifically for her public interfaith efforts.To learn more, I'd highly recommend her books, but you can also follow her on X @monasiddiqui7. About the Thrive CenterLearn more at thethrivecenter.org.Follow us on Instagram @thrivecenterFollow us on X @thrivecenterFollow us on LinkedIn @thethrivecenter About Dr. Pam KingDr. Pam King is Executive Director the Thrive Center and is Peter L. Benson Professor of Applied Developmental Science at Fuller School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy. Follow her @drpamking. About With & ForHost: Pam KingSenior Director and Producer: Jill WestbrookOperations Manager: Lauren KimSocial Media Graphic Designer: Wren JuergensenConsulting Producer: Evan RosaSpecial thanks to the team at Fuller Studio and the Fuller School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy.

We hear from the volunteers serving an average of 1,500 meals a day at the Gurdwara Siri Guru Singh Sabha in Hounslow and explore the significance of langar in the Sikh and wider community. Mona Siddiqui and the panel explore the role food plays in religion. Do all religious traditions have the imperative to feed the hungry? Is food the route to the soul? And, is sharing food the best way for religions to communicate beliefs?Mona is joined by: Chef Romy Gill, a prominent figure in the culinary world, known for her expertise in Indian cuisine. She was appointed a Member of the Order of the British Empire 2016 for services to the hospitality industry. Romy grew up in a Sikh Punjabi family and the tradition of sewa is close to her heart Norman Wirzba, is Professor of Theology and Ecology at Duke University Divinity School. His work focuses on religion, ecology and agrarianism. Norman is the author of Way of Love, Food and Faith.Moshe Basson, the executive Chef and owner of The Eucalyptus restaurant in Jerusalem and Author of The Eucalyptus Cookbook. He specialises in Levantine, Arab, and Jewish cuisine, and is known for his use of biblical ingredients.Producer: Alexa Good Assistant Producer: Linda Walker Editor: Tim Pemberton

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Mona Siddiqui and guests hear from Rev Denzil Larbi. He reflects on his cousin, Elianne Andam, who was 15 when she was fatally stabbed at a bus stop in Croydon, South London, in September 2023. He discusses their Christmases together and how the family mark Christmas without her.The panel of guests explore the complexities that often come with religious festivals especially those that come with an expectation of jollity. Do religions do enough for those who are grieving or isolated at times of collective merriment? Should religious leaders and communities be more responsible and nuanced in their approach? And, are some religions better at dealing with grief than others?To discuss Mona is joined by Jasvir Singh, from the Department of Theology and Religion at Birmingham University, Chair of City Sikhs, and the founder and Chair of the British Sikh Report, the Revd Lucy Winkett, Rector of St James's, Piccadilly, and Priest-in-Charge of St Pancras's Church, Euston Road, and Remona Aly, British Muslim journalist, commentator and broadcaster with a focus on faith, identity and lifestyle. Producer: Alexa Good Assistant Producer: Linda Walker Editor: Tim Pemberton

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The destruction of the 2nd Temple in 70 CE was a cataclysmic event for the people of Judaea and the Galilee. Our guest Nathanael Vette argues that all four New Testament gospels were written after 70 when Jewish communities were grappling with the loss of the Temple and an uncertain future under harsh Roman rule. Nathanael has found remarkable evidence in Mark that times the first gospel's authorship during the Jewish-Roman Wars. Nathanael is the author of Writing With Scripture: Scripturalized Narrative in the Gospel of Mark and the co-editor, with Mona Siddiqui, of A Theology of Gratitude: Christian and Muslim Perspectives. SUPPORT BIBLICAL TIME MACHINE!If you like the podcast, please consider supporting the show through the Time Travelers Club, our Patreon. We love making the show, but since we don't run ads we rely on listener contributions to cover our costs. Please help us continue to showcase high-quality biblical scholarship with a $5/month subscription. (Think of it as $1.25 an episode!)BTM BOOK CLUBWe're excited to announce the first meeting of the Biblical Time Machine Book Club! Members of the Time Travelers Club are invited for a live Zoom discussion of Helen and Joan Taylor's book, Women Remembered: Jesus' Female Disciples. Grab your copy of the book and we'll see you on Saturday, September 28 at 10am EDT and 5pm UK.DOWNLOAD OUR STUDY GUIDE: MARK AS ANCIENT BIOGRAPHYCheck out our 4-part audio study guide called "The Gospel of Mark as an Ancient Biography." While you're there, get yourself a handsome Biblical Time Machine mug or a cool sticker for your water bottle.Support the Show.Theme music written and performed by Dave Roos

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Should politicians respect, despise, accommodate or ignore public opinion? Rishi Sunak is looking for a policy he can pop into place between now and the general election that will avoid a Labour landslide. He is being advised that abolishing inheritance tax will tickle the tummies of the Tory not-so-faithful. Meanwhile, Sir Keir Starmer wants government planners to “bulldoze” local objections when deciding where to put new housing developments. Can a government get away with ignoring public opinion? Well, it can in constituencies it's never going to win. Politics nowadays is not merely ‘guided' by polls, surveys, databases and focus groups… it is controlled by them. But is that good for the country? Is the advice they generate either wise or moral? Are the public obsessed with issues that don't matter, while they ignore the ones that do? There is a case to be made against taking any notice of what the public thinks about anything. We know that the public thinks short-term, and that its opinions on political issues are ill-informed. Public opinion is inconsistent, incoherent and volatile. And yet democracy is built on the principle that the majority must get its way. And it's not just politicians (and Simon Cowell) who flatter the electorate with talk of the ‘wisdom' of the Great British Public. Lots of people seem to think that majority opinion will usually be wise, kind and helpful. But then, many also believe the moon landing was staged. Panellists: Anne McElvoy, Melanie Philips, Mona Siddiqui & Matthew Taylor Presenter: Michael Buerk Producers: Peter Everett & Jonathan Hallewell Editor: Tim Pemberton

No milk for babies, no food for patients, and no fuel for lights or incubators. Gaza's health system is crumbling under the weight of war, as Israel says it's going deeper into the territory. Battles rage around the two main hospitals, with the director of the largest one, Al-Shifa, saying the situation is “catastrophic” and that all essential units have collapsed. Israel alleges that Hamas command centers are housed beneath it, which Hamas and the doctors in the hospital deny. Nada Bashir reports on the desperate situation there.  Also on today's show: Jonathan Freedland, Guardian columnist & Mona Siddiqui, Professor of Islamic and Interreligious Studies, University of Edinburgh; US Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo; journalist/author Emily Tamkin  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Crime writer Ann Cleeves, theologian Mona Siddiqui, deep sea fish expert and podcast host Thomas Linley and poet Jake Morris-Campbell join Matthew Sweet to explore areas beyond the reach of light, both literally and metaphorically, as part of Radio 3's 2022 overnight festival at Sage Gateshead. What darkness makes someone commit a murder? Shetland and Vera are two TV series developed from the crime novels of Ann Cleeves. Her most recent book is The Heron's Cry featuring detective Matthew Venn and his colleague Jen Rafferty, played on TV in an adaptation of The Long Call by Ben Aldridge and Pearl Mackie. Poet and New Generation Thinker Jake Morris-Campbell writes about the mining communities of Northumberland and Durham and the experience of working in darkness. Professor Mona Siddiqui joined the University of Edinburgh's Divinity school in December 2011 as the first Muslim to hold a Chair in Islamic and Interreligious Studies Dr Thomas Linley hosts The Deep-Sea podcast and researches the behaviour of deep sea fish. He's based at Newcastle University. You can read the paper he co-authored 'Fear and loathing of the deep ocean: why don't people care about the deep sea?' here: https://bit.ly/3IBHsPT Producer: Torquil MacLeod You can find a series of BBC Proms concerts broadcast from Sage Gateshead available on BBC Sounds and a conversation about writing and place with North Eastern authors Jake Morris-Campbell and Jessica Andrews in conversation with Ian McMillan.

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Dr. Mona Siddiqui is a professor of Islamic and Interreligious Studies at the University of Edinburgh, as well as an Assistant Principal for Religion and Society. Her research interests include Islamic jurisprudence, ethics and Christian-Muslim relations. Among her many publications, she has published books exploring gratitude, hospitality, and faith. Dr. Siddiqui is a fellow of the Royal Society of Edinburgh, holds six honorary doctorates, and is a frequent commentator on BBC Radio. Mona joins the podcast to discuss the importance of hospitality as a facet of spiritual life, the impact of the pandemic on our ability to practice hospitality, and her advice for cultivating gratitude and hope.

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