Between the Pew

Welcome to our Season 4 of Between the Pew. This season will focus on Black love & ministry where we will explore the experiences of five couples as they manage marriage and life in ministry. We will explore the highs, the lows, the pitfalls and wisdom gained from couples ranging in marriage from a few years to over 50. We will hear about the struggles and joys of being Black in an evangelical denomination and how that has shaped their marriages…or not. After 32 years of marriage, Irwyn and Kim Ince are indeed an inspiration for thriving in ministry and marriage. As a former pastor and church planter and the current MNA Coordinator, the Inces have had plenty of struggles with married life, raising a family, and being in full-time ministry. Now in a new phase of life, Irwyn has started a Kettlebell Training Club, and Kim has started a new career in counseling. It is a privilege to learn some good and hard lessons from a couple that has seen multiple stages of life and ministry. For Kim's counseling practice: https://www.takomatherapy.com/therapists/kim-inceFor Irwyn's book purchases: irwynince.comFor the DC Kettlebell Club: http://dckettlebellclub.com/

Hear Charles and Kellie talk about all the details for LDR Weekend 2025 and find out how to register now! Link for LDR registration: https://aampca.org/conference/

Welcome to our Season 4 of Between the Pew. This season will focus on Black love & ministry where we will explore the experiences of five couples as they manage marriage and life in ministry. We will explore the highs, the lows, the pitfalls and wisdom gained from couples ranging in marriage from a few years to over 50. We will hear about the struggles and joys of being Black in an evangelical denomination and how that has shaped their marriages…or not. Meet Marshall ‘Book' Robinson and Tanisha Robinson; the first couple in this season's series. Tanisha and Book have been married for 22 years. They have a unique marriage story in that while having no biological children, the Marshalls have fostered and raised 17 children and adopted 2.  Book has served and ministered to God's people since age 13 in Missouri, Wisconsin, Tennessee, Oklahoma, Florida, Illinois & Indiana and is currently Pastoral Resident at New City West End in St. Louis, Mo. He is also working on his Master of Divinity at Covenant Seminary. Book also heads up InsideOut Jail & Prison Works, a holistic ministry serving the incarcerated, their families,  and the communities affected by the prison industrial complex. Tanisha is a Guinness Book of World Records Holder, a wedding and event planner, a former Bible Study organizer and leader, a talented choir 1st Soprano, and a former Color Guard captain and pom squad member. Once a Pre-Med college major, Tanisha now is intrigued by and regularly studies criminology and trafficking by watching Law & Order SVU and Criminal Minds. Tanisha, like Book, is an avid lover of musicals. Catch up with Book at https://restorestlouis.org/inside-out-prison-ministry or email him at Book@ncfstl.org

African American Ministries hosts a weekend conference each year called LDR Weekend (Leadership Development Resource Weekend). LDR Weekend is our annual gathering for African Americans in the PCA and this weekend is an opportunity to connect with and encourage one of our denomination's most underrepresented demographics.In this special episode, Kellie shares what attendees can expect from LDR 2023 in Atlanta, September 1-3! Get ready for sound teaching, vibrant worship, rich fellowship, and... a block party!LDR registration is open now! To register visit:https://brushfire.com/mna/ldr2023/558225/registerGot questions? Reach out to Kellie at kellie@aampca.org 

In the second part of this two part episode, Jenell and Kellie continue the conversation with Professor Suzanne Bates. Suzanne is a Licensed Professional Counselor and PhD candidate. She serves as the Assistant Professor of Counseling at Covenant Theological Seminary in St. Louis, MO. Suzanne shares about her work in cultural identity development that the Lord has given her the opportunity to participate in. She also talks about her dissertation topic, the residual impact of slavery on sexual violence among African American women, and more!To learn more about Professor Suzanne Bates visit,covenantseminary.edu To contact Suzanne, email,Suzanne.bates@covenantseminary.edu

In the first part of this two part episode, Jenell and Kellie sit down with Professor Suzanne Bates. Suzanne is a Licensed Professional Counselor and PhD candidate. She serves as the Assistant Professor of Counseling at Covenant Theological Seminary in St. Louis, MO. Suzanne shares lessons she learned from her mother, her response to life's personal tragedies, her search for identity, how she discerned God's call on her life, and more! As the first black person to ever become a member of her first PCA church, Suzanne has a lot to share!To learn more about Professor Suzanne Bates visit,covenantseminary.edu

In this episode of Between The Pew, Jenell and Kellie talk with Dr. Vanessa Hawkins. Vanessa is the Director of Community Life at Redeemer Lincoln Square in New York. Redeemer LS is a church that is part of the Redeemer network of churches founded by the late Tim Keller (Keller passed away after the recoding of episode).Vanessa  received her Master of Divinity and Doctor of Ministry in Cultural Apologetics and Communication from Covenant Theological Seminary. Vanessa shares about growing up in Arkansas, the sequence of events that led her to the PCA, the privilege of ministering to women, her doctoral research, and more!To learn more about Vanessa and Redeemer LS, visit:https://redeemerlsq.com/

In this episode of Between the Pew, Jenell and Charles get to know Haley Williams. Haley has worked in campus ministry with RUF City Campus in New York for the past three years. Haley talks about her upcoming move to Washington DC, her new ministry call, and how she plans to incorporate dance into her passion for growing in knowledge of the person and work of Jesus.Click here to give to Haley's work in Washington, DC.

In this episode of Between the Pew, Kellie and Jenell sit down with Carine Lewis, Women's Ministry Director at Urban Hope Community Church in Fairfield, AL. Carine talks about her Haitian roots, her name, why she decided to attend seminary, and her calling to minister to the "forgotten" black woman.Click Here to give to Carine's work at Urban Hope!Website: urbanhopecc.com

"Planting, in partnership with Perimeter Church and MNA's African American Ministries, Kindred Hope will ignite a movement of black church planting and ministry for and by Black Americans."In this episode of Between the Pew; Jenell, Charles, Kellie, and Howard talk about the Kindred Hope church plant in Atlanta, GA. Church planters, Howard and Kellie Brown, answer important questions, like, is a black church just for black folk?" They also share the current state of the church plant, what led them to answer the call to plant, and ways listeners can support this important work!To learn more about Kindred Hope Church or to give visit: kindredhopechurch.orgTo contact:Howard Brown: hbrown@kindredhopechurch.orgKellie Brown: kelliebrown@kindredhopechurch.org

Incorporating what he's learned in almost a decade of doing ministry at HBCUs, Rev. Cyril Chavis wrote, "The Bible Explained: A College Student's Guide to Understanding Their Faith." This book explains some of the Bible's most basic and unchanging truths, but specifically written for Black college students and their lived experience.In this special episode of BTP, Jenell and Charles sit down with Cyril and discuss why he decided to write this book and how it is relevant and beneficial for all people groups.CLICK HERE to order your copy of The Bible Explained today!CLICK HERE to leave a reviewCLICK HERE to sign up for the email listRev. Cyril Chavis is an ordained Teaching Elder in the PCA. Cyril currently serves as the RUF Campus Minister at Howard University in Washington, D.C.

Jenell and Kellie sit down with Cyril Chavis, RUF Campus minister at Howard University in Washington, D.C. Howard is an HBCU (Historically Black College and University), and, in this episode, Cyril shares his heart for HBCUs and why it is important to do ministry there. Cyril also talks about the upcoming HBCU Link conference. HBCU Link is a conference that equips HBCU workers to lead ministries faithful to Jesus and tailor-made for black campuses. The conference will be held November 10-12 in Columbia, SC. To learn more about HBCU Link and to register, visit:https://colapres.com/hbcu-link-2022

It's been ONE MONTH since LDR! Jenell, Charles, and Kellie wanted to hop on the mic and do a BTP recap of LDR 2022. If you missed LDR and want to hear how it went or if you were there and want to reminisce a little on your time there, check out this special BTP episode now!If you're interested in giving to LDR:Visit: Pcamna.org Click the top "Give" tabType in "African American Ministries" in the search boxClick the "Donate" button under African American Ministries Choose "MNA AAM Leadership Development Resource " under "Add donation" 

LDR IS ON!AAM hosts a conference each year called LDR. COVID set us back in recent years, but, believe it or not, LDR is ON this year! It'll take place in just a few short weeks, but it isn't too late to get your affairs in order and join us in ATLANTA, GA this LABOR DAY WEEKEND (September 2-4). In this bonus episode, Jenell asks Kellie all the questions you might have, like what is LDR, why is it important, and what you can expect at LDR 2022.Visit aampca.org and click the top tab “LDR” to learn more and to REGISTER. REGISTER FOR LDR 2022 TODAY!!!

In this SEASON 2 FINALE, Jenell Chavis and Kellie Brown chat with Iain Coston. Iain is the Justice and Neighborhood Manager at Redeemer Eastside in New York, NY. In this episode, Iain talks about growing up biracial in San Francisco, struggles with his racial identity, his current ministry position, his future in ministry, and more!

In part 2 of this bonus episode, Wy Plummer passes the baton to Charles McKnight, the new African American Ministries Coordinator. Charles talks about how he came into this role, the vision and goals he has for AAM moving forward, and how you can be a part of what God is doing in and through AAM!Also, in the episode, Howard and Kellie Brown share about an exciting church plant in Atlanta, GA. God has called the Browns to lend their talents to South Fulton and start a black centered church in the PCA. Howard and Kellie share why this is important and how you can join the movement! Referenced in the episode:To give to the Atlanta Church Plant:Go to: perimeter.org/giveClick "give online", select "other" and choose "CPL Howard Brown S Fulton Church Plant"To contact:HowardB@perimeter.orgHoward@aampca.orgKellie@aampca.orgCharles@aampca.org

In part 1 of this bonus episode, Jenell Chavis, Kellie Brown, Charles McKnight, Howard Brown talk with Wy Plummer about his experience serving as the Coordinator of African American Ministries for the past 22 years. Wy shares how he landed in this role, growth and encouragements he's witnessed along the way, and what he wants to leave with the next generation of black people in the PCA.

Jenell Chavis and Charles McKnight get to hear from Devin Coleman. Devin is the Pastoral Intern at Columbia Presbyterian Church in Columbia, SC.In this episode, Devin talks about growing up in the small town of Pageland, SC, life as a preachers kid, how his family felt about him leaving his home church, and more!Referenced in the episode:HBCU Link at Cola Pres: https://colapres.com/hbcu-link-2022Campus Outreach at Benedict IG: @co.benedictcollege 

Jenell Chavis and Kellie Brown chat with Ashley Williams. Ashley is the Ministry Coordinator at Grace Mosaic PCA in Washington, D.C. In this episode, Ashley talks about growing up in an all-white church in the south, her decision to pursue ministry, what ministry has been like for her in a multiethnic church in D.C., music, and more! 

Kellie Brown and Charles McKnight sit down with Denine Blevins. Denine and her husband live in Huntsville, Alabama. Denine is the Executive Director of Parakaleo, an organization that trains, supports, and values women in church planting. In this episode, Denine talks about growing up in New York, her passion for cross-cultural ministry, how she found her way into the PCA, why she believes the Lord is calling her to stay in the denomination, and more! To learn more about Parakaleo visit, https://parakaleo.us/

Charles McKnight and Jenell Chavis chop it up with Anthony English. Anthony and his wife and children live in Sacramento, CA. Anthony is the Assistant Director of the West Coast Hub of Mission to the World (MTW).In this episode, Anthony talks about growing up in California, his road to ministry, his bouts with racism in the PCA, why he chooses to stay in the PCA, and more!Referenced in episode:Netflix's Black AF: Season 1, Episode 5Follow Anthony on:Instagram: @antenglish89Twitter: @lamontEnglish89Facebook: Anthony EnglishMission To The World (MTW): https://mtw.org/about/hubs/mtw-west-coast

Kellie Brown and Jenell Chavis chat with Candace Robins! Candace is a Partner Services Coordinator at Jackson Leadership Foundation and is also the Assistant Music Director at Redeemer Church in Jackson, MS.In this episode, Candace talks about her church background, country living, selecting and leading music in a multicultural and multigenerational church, and more!   

Jenell Chavis and Charles McKnight get to know Alicia Akins! Alicia is a published author, she works for the Fulbright program, and she is a student at Reformed Theological Seminary in D.C.In this episode, Alicia talks about living in Asia, the persecuted church, what she, as a black woman, has learned from Asian Christians, her new book, and more!Follow Alicia on Twitter: @FeetCryMercyBlog: feetcrymercy.comInvitations to Abundance is available wherever books are sold!

Charles McKnight and Jenell Chavis sit down with Jerome Douglas. Jerome is a student at Reformed Theological Seminary Orlando, works full-time in brand marketing, and is a pastoral intern at Christ Community PCA in Hartford, Connecticut. Jerome shares how he came to faith, his road to seminary, planting black churches, and more!Follow Jerome: @rev.rome and jerome_douglasjr

Jenell Chavis and Kellie Brown get to know Shanez Padgett. Shanez is the Director of Worship and Media Arts at Christ Community Church in Batesburg-Leesville, South Carolina. Shanez shares the sequence of events that led him to this position and the challenges and triumphs he faces as a black man leading worship in an all-white church. 

If you've been listening to BTP for any length of time then you know that we haven't been shy to voice the difficulties and challenges we have as black people in the PCA. There just isn't a lot of Black folk in the PCA and, with that, comes inevitable hardships, BUT we are choosing to stay in these spaces. After we aired our last bonus episode, “Do Black People Have a Place in the PCA” we started getting a new round of questions about why we stay in the PCA. So we wanted to hop back on the mic and explore that question a little more and hear from each other about why we stay.Links mentioned in episode:History of African American Presbyterianism Timeline: aampca.org Pretty Brown Skin (feat. Eugene Kiing & Mav City Gospel Choir: https://youtu.be/xGaXgM8TgQQ

In this special bonus episode, Jenell, Kellie, Charles, and a special guest (gotta listen to find out who!) talk about how welcomed we are as black people in white PCA churches, the cross-cultural PCA church, the struggles for black church planters, the importance of all black PCA churches, how we can see black growth in the PCA and more! We're speaking plainly and laying it all out y'all so check out this special bonus episode! Stay with us until the end to hear about LDR 2022! 

Jenell Chavis, Charles McKnight, Kellie Brown, and Wy Plummer take a look back at the first season of BTP. They discuss the highs and lows of starting a podcast, highlights from the first season, what to expect next season, and more!

Meet the Amlalos! Golda and Reuben talk to Charles and Kellie about everything from Ghanaian food to Autism and the church to their exciting new ministry position. Learn how you may be able to support them. Check out episode 8 of Between The Pew!

Jenell Chavis and Kellie Brown chat with Karen Ellis. Karen is the director of the Edmiston Center of the Study of the Bible and Ethnicity at Reformed Theological Seminary in Atlanta, GA.

Kellie Brown and Jenell Chavis dive in with Justin Jordan (member of Christ Central in Charlotte, NC) and hear how his specific church context makes all the difference in his ability to thrive in the PCA.

Charles McKnight and Jenell Chavis hear Jason's PCA entrance story. Jason is a recent graduate of Florida Gulf Coast and he is preparing to make a big move to Washington, D.C. to work for Reformed University Fellowship. To support Jason in his new ministry endeavor visit givetoruf.org and type his name in the search bar.

Jenell Chavis and Kellie Brown get it in with Kari Thomas (member of Redeemer Church in Jackson, MS) and hear how she entered the PCA and what her experience has been like since entering.

Kellie Brown and Jenell Chavis dive deep with Kim Ince (wife of PCA pastor, Irwyn Ince).

Kellie Brown and Jenell Chavis continue the conversation with Lance Lewis (Senior Pastor of New City Sacramento in Sacramento, CA and his son, Charles Lewis (Associate Pastor of Northside Church of Richmond in Richmond, VA).

Kellie Brown and Jenell Chavis chat with Lance Lewis (Senior Pastor of New City Sacramento in Sacramento, CA and his son, Charles Lewis (Associate Pastor of Northside Church of Richmond in Richmond, VA).

In this first episode of Between The Pew, AAM staff (Wy Plummer, Alex Shipman, Jenell Chavis, Kellie Brown, and Charles McKnight) introduce the podcast and give their brief PCA origin story.

African American Ministries is launching a new podcast! Between the Pew will allow listeners to meet other black people in the PCA and get to know their origin story. Check out this trailer to get a glimpse of what you can expect in Season 1 of Between the Pew!