Podcasts about with masters

Shownotes :: (show 844) :: (website) :: (podcast feed) :: (direct download) :: (direct iTunes link) With Masters of the Universe: Revelation, recorded live August 15th, 2021. This week, all bad puns and jokes aside we had opinions. What did we talk about? you can ask us in Discord; even better listen to the show and find out! Community OG Networks OGN Discord OG twitter OGN Instagram Spotify OG|N Patreon Link(s) and Stuff Show Links (discussed) Google Photos (album) Feedback channel Find us on: (Google Play), (Apple Store) Join us next week... for something. You can never be sure, it's likely something pod n' casty like. Still plenty of show noat errors, know on notices.

Laura Millar (AKA: Blind Sexpert) is a blind outspoken disability rights and queer rights advocate who is deeply committed to advancing the field of sexual health promotion for people with disabilities. With Masters degrees in Public Health and Sexuality Studies, Laura conducts research that examines how blind and visually impaired people learn about and navigate the world of dating, sex and intimate relationships. Laura began her work with the goal of empowering people who are blind or visually impaired. Her passion and expertise have expanded to educating people with all types of disabilities, to help them comfortably navigate intimacy and physical relationships. Laura specializes in helping people break through pockets of resistance and navigate shame related to their disability and/or sexuality. https://www.kinkycast.com/archive/2021-archive/391---the-blind-sexpertlaur.html

MAKEBA MOONCYCLE  I’m not a female MC! I'm a MC for life! Traveling around the universe looking for a way to release, inside there's a fire when set free comes peace! Makeba has been writing and performing since she was a child. Did she always know that she wanted to be an MC? Did she know that her writings and poetry would open a door to being a lyricist or a MC? No, Makeba looked at writing as a way to escape and the universe led her to connect with people in each stage of her life. From dancing lessons, piano lessons and being exposed to hard work and entrepreneurs helped her on my journey. Makeba believes that life experiences will shape your decisions and directions some right some wrong. All of these turns introduced her to a life, a world and to people that have prepared me for important moments. Her love for dance took her to clubs where she met LinQue. Makeba's love for helping others led her to the BlackWatch movement and X Clan and Sonny Carson. Makeba's loyalty to friends led her to helping in business which led her to MC Lyte. Which led her to finding talented artists and producers who eventually became family. Putting others and supporting their dreams before her own became part of an instinctive nature that taught her many things. Makeba said she was thankful to the people that inspired me even though she was afraid to show her skills, this fear brought on by her fear of loss. Makeba's first experiences in a professional recording studio was with X Clan, ISIS and Queen Mother Rage. She was able to road manage for ISIS, Queen Mother Rage, YZ and X Clan. When out with X Clan she only assisted Professor X and the road manager Walter. Hands on training was better than any book or instruction manual. Makeba found that she had an ear for talent, especially great producers. Makeba said that she learned a lot from those experiences which showed her how to work and maneuver within the music business. The first professional song Makeba recorded besides backgrounds and hooks was on MC Lyte's album Ain't No Other on the song Hard Copy produced by Backspin. Her MC name at this time was Kink Ez because she had locks and her hair locked up fast giving her antennas to the universe. Recording with Lyte and LinQue was amazing and lit a fire in her that could not be extinguished. Before the song a strong friendship/sisterhood was formed along with a management company called Duke Da Moon. Our dream was to manage LinQue and the other artists. At this time Makeba was focused on running the company, not music. While managing several artists she formed a group called Afrodeeziacs with Asia Minor, the group's demo was produced by Down Low productions own Self and Goldie. While looking for tracks for LinQue's album with Ruffhouse she met a production team called Friendly Fee Amelia and Kevin Moore. After leaving Duke Da Moon she began to record solo tracks with Friendly Fee the first being H20 with many more after that. Makeba recorded many songs and Friendly Fee put out her first single as Makeba Mooncycle called Desert Storm that was picked for a New MC's compilation on Rhino Records called Phat Beats and Bra Straps. Then another single called Ahhh featuring the COINS by this time Friendly Fee changed their name to Masters of the Art. With Masters of the Art, Makeba had written and recorded an extensive catalogue of songs. While performing in Washington DC she met promoters from Africa who said they wanted her to come and perform. Makeba performed on the FESTAM Tour of West Africa in Dakar, Senegal opening up for African artists in big venues and she performed day and night at smaller venues and schools. Armed only with a distribution deal from Orpheus/EMI, which did not pan out because they wanted her to pay for features she quickly parted ways. Still working hardmanaging herself and others Makeba quickly built a loyal fanbase and saw a string of releases. She is currently writing a book based on her experiences within the music business. Makeba’s catalogue of music includes the singles Lunchroom Classics and WE, duets with Talib Kweli produced by J. Rawls, An EP released on Buka Entertainment/Lone Catalysts called The Gibbous. We Can't be Touched produced by DJ Tony Touch and Ray Rolls, Doin our Thang produced by Joe Loops both with Sunz of Man, Crazy Love, a European release with Nona Hendryx, and Fire produced by Arabian Knight, a song with Royal Fam's Timbo King off of Wu Tang Records. After Duke Da Moon Makeba started her own management company called Must Maintain Entertainment, and was known as the hook up lady who served as a consultant for various artists such as Mood, Hi Tech, Talib Kweli, AZ, Skanks The Rap Martyr (Problem Child), P Funk, and The Rose Family. Makeba has also lent her voice to television, doing voice-overs for an Italian Adidas commercial that featured the late "Just Got Paid" Johnny Kemp and the late Jam Master Jay of Run DMC who produced the music for the commercial. She also used her voice over talents for two Sugar Golden Crisps commercials. Makeba also recorded and performed the theme song for BET Comic View’s 10th anniversary show, and appeared on the PBS television series Between the Lions. Makeba worked with many artists and producers trying to mark her spot in Hip Hop history. She has many releases on the way, the first being The Gibbous 2020 a twenty year anniversary celebration of the original release with new songs. Can You Feel Me a single off the Sunz of Anarchy Sicktape Volume one brought to us by Skanks The Rap Martyr and Anarchy Records. She will also be releasing a Mixtape called Featuring with Anarchy Records and an album name at the moment called Just A Part Of Me! She is still moving and as she says "Don't Stop, Don't Quit!  

This is a segment of episode #206 of Last Born In The Wilderness “Our Devotional Act: Nights Of Grief & Mystery w/ Stephen Jenkinson.” Listen to the full episode: http://bit.ly/LBWjenkinson2 Show times, locations, and information on the ‘Nights of Grief & Mystery’ tour: http://bit.ly/GriefMystery Watch Ian MacKenzie’s short film ‘Lost Nation Road’: https://www.lostnationroad.com
 In this segment of my discussion with culture activist, teacher, author and ceremonialist Stephen Jenkinson, we discuss his most recent performative project ‘Nights of Grief & Mystery,’ made in collaboration with “song and dance man” Gregory Hoskins — as documented in the recent short film ‘Lost Nation Road,’ directed by Ian MacKenzie. After watching Ian MacKenzie’s short documentary film ‘Lost Nation Road,’ I finally began to understand more fully the real spirit and essence of Stephen Jenkinson and Gregory Hoskins’ exquisite and subversive project ‘Nights of Grief & Mystery.’ By that, I mean the immersive and ritualized nature of this performative act. To describe this act merely as a storytelling/spoken word and musical performance is to reduce the unifying purpose to its individual components. ‘Nights of Grief & Mystery’ subverts our notions of what performance is and could be in this time of deep trouble, and as Stephen elaborates in this interview, this act taps into something far older than that of theatrical performance — ritual. Ritual engages with the collective, requiring the participation of all involved — which stands in contrast with proper theatrical performance as we often conceive and experience it, which as Stephen expresses, is a disfigurement of ritual, creating an arbitrary division between the “audience” and the “performers.” In subverting our notions of performance, Stephen and Gregory conjure an experience that alludes to the question: In these times of deepening trouble, how do we conduct ourselves? “These are nights in which love letters to life are written and read aloud. There’s some boldness in them. They have that tone. These nights have the mark of our time upon them, and they’re timely, urgent, alert, steeped in mortal mystery. They’re quixotic. They have swagger. What would you call such a thing? We call them Nights of Grief & Mystery.” Stephen Jenkinson (MTS, MSW) is the author of numerous books, including 'Come of Age: The Case for Elderhood in a Time of Trouble' and 'Die Wise: A Manifesto for Sanity and Soul.' Stephen teaches internationally and is the creator and principal instructor of the Orphan Wisdom School, founded in 2010. With Masters degrees from Harvard University (Theology) and the University of Toronto (Social Work), he is revolutionizing grief and dying in North America. Apprenticed to a master storyteller, he has worked extensively with dying people and their families, is former program director in a major Canadian hospital, former assistant professor in a prominent Canadian medical school, consultant to palliative care and hospice organizations and educator and advocate in the helping professions. He is also a sculptor, traditional canoe builder whose house won a Governor General’s Award for architecture. Stephen Jenkinson is also the subject of the feature length documentary film ‘Griefwalker’ (National Film Board of Canada, 2008), a lyrical, poetic portrait of his work with dying people. WEBSITE: https://www.lastborninthewilderness.com PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/lastborninthewilderness DONATE: https://www.paypal.me/lastbornpodcast DROP ME A LINE: Call (208) 918-2837 or http://bit.ly/LBWfiledrop EVERYTHING ELSE: https://linktr.ee/patterns.of.behavior

[INTRO: 12:37 | OUTRO: 1:22:37] In this episode, I speak with culture activist, teacher, author and ceremonialist Stephen Jenkinson. We discuss his most recent performative project ‘Nights of Grief & Mystery,’ made in collaboration with “song and dance man” Gregory Hoskins — as documented in the recent short film ‘Lost Nation Road,’ directed by Ian MacKenzie. After watching Ian MacKenzie’s short documentary film ‘Lost Nation Road,’ I finally began to understand more fully the real spirit and essence of Stephen Jenkinson and Gregory Hoskins’ exquisite and subversive project ‘Nights of Grief & Mystery.’ By that, I mean the immersive and ritualized nature of this performative act. To describe this act merely as a storytelling/spoken word and musical performance is to reduce the unifying purpose to its individual components. ‘Nights of Grief & Mystery’ subverts our notions of what performance is and could be in this time of deep trouble, and as Stephen elaborates in this interview, this act taps into something far older than that of theatrical performance — ritual. Ritual engages with the collective, requiring the participation of all involved — which stands in contrast with proper theatrical performance as we often conceive and experience it, which as Stephen expresses, is a disfigurement of ritual, creating an arbitrary division between the “audience” and the “performers.” In subverting our notions of performance, Stephen and Gregory conjure an experience that alludes to the question: In these times of deepening trouble, how do we conduct ourselves? “These are nights in which love letters to life are written and read aloud. There’s some boldness in them. They have that tone. These nights have the mark of our time upon them, and they’re timely, urgent, alert, steeped in mortal mystery. They’re quixotic. They have swagger. What would you call such a thing? We call them Nights of Grief & Mystery.” Stephen Jenkinson (MTS, MSW) is the author of numerous books, including 'Come of Age: The Case for Elderhood in a Time of Trouble' and 'Die Wise: A Manifesto for Sanity and Soul.' Stephen teaches internationally and is the creator and principal instructor of the Orphan Wisdom School, founded in 2010. With Masters degrees from Harvard University (Theology) and the University of Toronto (Social Work), he is revolutionizing grief and dying in North America. Apprenticed to a master storyteller, he has worked extensively with dying people and their families, is former program director in a major Canadian hospital, former assistant professor in a prominent Canadian medical school, consultant to palliative care and hospice organizations and educator and advocate in the helping professions. He is also a sculptor, traditional canoe builder whose house won a Governor General’s Award for architecture. Stephen Jenkinson is also the subject of the feature length documentary film ‘Griefwalker’ (National Film Board of Canada, 2008), a lyrical, poetic portrait of his work with dying people. Episode Notes: - Show times, locations, and information on the ‘Nights of Grief & Mystery’ tour: http://bit.ly/GriefMystery - Watch Ian MacKenzie’s short film ‘Lost Nation Road’: https://www.lostnationroad.com
 - Learn more about Stephen’s body of work: https://orphanwisdom.com - Purchase John Halstead’s book ‘Another End of the World is Possible’: http://bit.ly/2Mr1Uur - The intro features audio from ‘Lost Nation Road’: http://bit.ly/2Z1ImhW
 - The outro features the song “Take A Little Walk / All The Songs of Love” by Gregory Hoskins and Stephen Jenkinson from the album Nights of Grief and Mystery: http://bit.ly/2Z8BNtO WEBSITE: https://www.lastborninthewilderness.com PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/lastborninthewilderness DONATE: https://www.paypal.me/lastbornpodcast DROP ME A LINE: Call (208) 918-2837 or http://bit.ly/LBWfiledrop EVERYTHING ELSE: https://linktr.ee/patterns.of.behavior

In this episode Gautam speaks about what it truly means to surrender to Sai Baba and how devotees must live the teachings of Baba and not merely read the Sai Satcharita as an exercise. Transcript Nikhil: Namaste, today we are privileged to have Gautamji with us in Goa and we'll be continuing our interview series that we had started last time, which was called ‘Living the Teachings of Sai Baba.’ In case you've missed the first episode, I will share a link in the description, which you can have a look at. Gautam, thank you once again for joining us. In this themed interview, I would like to ask you some questions on Surrender, to enable devotees to have a correct and deeper understanding of what Surrender truly means. Gautam: Sure. Nikhil, firstly it's a privilege for me to be back on this channel and I have seen how popular it is becoming with Sai Baba devotees, and it's all thanks to your tireless efforts, so keep it up. Nikhil: I don't think many people know this, but it is Gautam who is responsible for the book and the channel's creation. It was his idea. When I first told him that I met Aai, he said, “You know, she's a very special devotee of Baba.” And at the time, I was not much into Sai Baba, so he said, “Although you may not be (a devotee), you must document her stories into a book for them.” And I said to myself, “My God, what am I doing! What have I got into!” And that's how the love story with Baba and Aai began. Then Gautam suggested that I interview Aai, so the first interview took place, and that actually founded the channel, so Thank You from me, and from all the devotees. So Gautam is the one who has set this thing into motion. Gautam: Ultimately it is Baba. We are just instruments. Nikhil: Absolutely. Gautam: My mother's Guru used to say something beautiful when people would thank him. He would say, “Thanking me is like your left hand thanking your right hand.” So we're all coming together thanks to the grace of the Divine. Nikhil: Talking of grace, Gautam, how does one truly surrender to Sai Baba? Gautam: Surrender itself is a loaded word, because invariably we hear people saying: “‘I’ have surrendered. This is my situation, and ‘I’ have surrendered.” Now this actually needs to be looked at more closely. In the Egyptian times, the hieroglyphs which were carved (the symbols which were carved on the Pyramids and in the ancient Egyptian temples) had a symbol of ‘both hands raised’ to depict Surrender, which meant ‘above the mind,’ or that it is not the ‘thinking mind’ that can surrender. In fact, when we see the police say, “Hands up,” it means “Surrender!” because your hands are also exposed. See where these ancient symbols come from! Now, what CAN one surrender, actually? There’s so much that happens in life that we have no control over AT ALL. Most of the circumstances around us have been placed before us, right from the time when we were young, such as, the school we went to, the economic strata we were born into, or the geographical location we were living in. These were not in our control, but they shaped us and led to our conditioning. So, much of our conditioning was also not in our control. And then the journey of life began. Then, something happens - most likely adverse - which we do not like, a difficult situation perhaps. We then realise that no matter how hard we try, this is beyond our control, and we surrender. So true surrender means this acceptance that whatever happens is God's will. Now, THAT is true surrender. It is not an individual ‘Me’ saying, ‘I’ surrender, because you have nothing to surrender, for everything is given to you. What is yours to surrender if everything belongs to the Divine, to God? What can the individual surrender? The individual can only surrender his sense of doership: ‘I’ did this, ‘I’ did not do this; this person did this to me, so I hate him; this person did not do this, so I don't like him. Doership is what the ego can surrender. And if you read the Sai Satcharita, you will see various pointers in the stories where this aspect of doership is being pointed out. When we realise that neither ‘Me’ nor the others DO things (because it is God who is in charge of everything), then we stop blaming, condemning, hating and judging. This is true surrender. We stop pointing fingers at individuals because we know that this is the Leela of Sai Baba. Nikhil: In this regard, Baba would emphasise on seeing Him in every Form, not as an act of doership, but essentially He would emphasise that He pervades all forms as Consciousness. So, when we have that understanding, wouldn't that automatically reduce the ‘I’ and the ‘Me’? Gautam: Absolutely! This is exactly what happens when one truly follows the teaching of Sai Baba, and it's no longer just a concept, or theory, or just reading a book like the Sai Satcharita. This is when one starts living the teaching. When you can see that everyone in your life, especially the people you don't like, are instruments of the Divine, instruments through whom Sai Baba operates, what happens? You start accepting people the way God has made them, you start accepting yourself for the way you are made, and the inevitable result is a sense of peace and equanimity which starts settling into your daily life. This is precisely the point which you have raised. Now, the example that I usually give is this: in the kitchen, we have various gadgets. Each is designed to perform a certain function. The toaster produces toast, the juicer will produce juice, and the microwave will heat the food. But without electricity, all these gadgets are dead instruments. Similarly, it is Consciousness that animates us. You, Me, He, and She - it is the same Consciousness, the electricity which runs through all of this, and we are instruments through which Consciousness functions. That is one way to look at it. So, with this understanding settling in, one starts seeing things through this different plane of understanding. The focus gets reduced from individuals (with their natures and characteristics) to an understanding that the same light - the light of Consciousness - shines through everyone. And this is why Sai Baba has said that God is pure Consciousness. Nikhil: As a practice, especially for those devotees who are new to the teaching and to Baba, can just becoming aware of the ‘I’ or the ‘Me,’ when it arises (in instances like ‘this happened to Me,’ ‘someone hurt Me,’ or ‘Why did this happen to Me?’) be a good beginning point? Gautam: It is an excellent beginning point. It is the beginning and the ending point. Nisargadatta Maharaj, who was an Advaita Master and who passed away in 1981 or '82, gave an excellent pointer on this. He said that every time we refer back to the ‘I’ and the ‘Me’ as ‘this happened to Me,’ or ‘I heard this,’ it is always coming back to Me, Me, Me. So he said: Simply change it around. Instead of saying, ‘Something happened to Me,’ say, ‘Something happened.’ Full Stop. Change ‘He said this to Me’ to ‘He said this.’ Full Stop. So what happens is this intense focus on ‘Me’, which we are all living with, starts diminishing. The burden the ‘Me’ carries, of what the world has done to ‘Me’, what ‘I’ have done, that starts releasing. It is astonishing to see how many times in a day we keep coming back to this ‘Me’ identity. So that is why these teachings are presented to us, as they diminish this sense of a separate identity, with its sense of doership, which is the ‘Me’. And when you say ‘Something happened,’ it becomes so much simpler. It may not be easier, but so much simpler to accept than ‘Something happened to Me’ (which should not have). Nikhil: Gautam, for most people, the troubling point is their mind and its incessant thinking. But if one has truly surrendered, that would subside substantially because you essentially surrender to the Will of God, and life flows. Could you suggest a few practices for this? For example, if someone has thoughts that essentially could be just assumptions, can he begin to question the reality of these thoughts as a practice? Gautam: What needs to be looked at is the Thinking mind. There are two aspects of the mind, which my teacher Rameshji would refer to as the Working mind and the Thinking mind. The Working mind is needed to perform tasks. The Thinking mind, which goes into the dead past or an imaginary future, is the problem. Let us take an example. Let's say there is a surgeon who is performing an operation. At that point, his Working mind kicks in because he utilises all his experience to conduct the operation in the best possible way. Now, just before the operation, suppose someone tells him, “Look, you'd better be careful because this is a very powerful politician. If, God forbid, something goes wrong, you are going to be in trouble.” Now, when this surgeon is performing the operation, if the thought arises: ‘My God, what if something goes wrong?’ That thought is taking him into an imaginary future. It is taking him away from the present moment. So the Thinking mind is what takes us away from the NOW, and it is the Thinking mind which is to be arrested. So coming back to your question, this is what happens: when witnessing starts happening, one can see that the mind is engaged in incessant thinking. We just have to see how much thinking is going on which is connected to the dead past or an imaginary future. And 90 percent of the time, it is fear-based thinking, like: ‘What will happen to Me?’ So, in one sense, it is just the seeing. It is not even a practice as such, it is not something one has to work and concentrate on in a very hard way. It is a simple ‘seeing’ of patterns, like: ‘What has been happening with me so far? Where are my thoughts leading me?’ Just that ‘seeing’ is enough to create this gap between the incessant thinking and the witnessing of that. And, it starts happening naturally. That is why all the Masters emphasise so many times: ‘Please do not just read our words, but try living the teaching.’ Nikhil: Gautam, there are people who write to me with their grievances. People who are in extreme situations of agony, either with a critical illness, or a terminal illness, maybe. Some have lost everything. Can you give some pointers on how they can deal with such situations? Gautam: I will give you an example of a young man who runs a hotel in Kabul, Afghanistan, with a staff of about 100 people working under him. He first sent me an email, writing, “There are so many bombings going on all around me that I don't know whether I will be alive the next minute.” That is an extreme situation. Now, when you follow the teachings of Sai Baba, or any other Master that you relate to, you first accept the situation as: ‘This is where I have been placed. If I was not meant to be here, I would not be here, but I am placed here.’ Now, this does not mean that you have to like the situation. You may be uncomfortable with it, but acceptance is the first step. Thereafter, you just take this analysis step by step. In his case, let's say he has accepted that he does not know what the next moment will bring. Sometimes, it gives him deep peace; at other times, he gets frustrated. So what happens? Witnessing happens that I am at peace; or, witnessing happens that now I'm feeling a bit tight, constricted and fearful. That is when the awareness starts kicking in. Otherwise, normally we are so engaged and entangled in this web of thinking that we have no other vision. If you get too involved in the thinking, a lot of stories are created like ‘this might happen to me’ - a lot of negativity, so to speak. But with these teachings, one can see what is happening in a very objective way, and at some point, that thinking gets cut off and you realise: ‘My God, the Thinking mind was really galloping away!’ Now THAT cutting off is the Grace. Because you were so involved in the thinking, it is not ‘you’ as the Thinking mind who has cut off the thinking. It is the Grace, the Awareness, the Light, with which you see, that makes you realise that ‘My God, I was involved in that stream of thinking!’ This starts happening more and more, in the sense that one begins to realise that the involvement in the thinking starts cutting off sooner and sooner. So earlier, if you were involved in your thoughts for a long duration of time, now that duration starts reducing. What is the result? A mind which is not engaged in excessive thinking is a mind at peace. Nikhil: Eckhart Tolle had spoken about three things that you can do in a difficult situation: one – accept the situation, which you have already spoken about, two - change the situation, or three - walk away from the situation. Now there are common threads I see in emails from devotees who tell me about situations in their lives - either they are being harassed by a family member, or some other difficult situation. Could you talk about how devotees can apply those three things suggested by Tolle in their lives? Gautam: This is a very individual-specific subject, but let us go a bit laterally for now and talk about ‘free will,’ because that comes in here. When someone asked Dayanand Saraswati, “Do we have free will?” he replied, “Imagine a goat that is tied to a post on the ground with a rope. Now the goat can only move around to the length of the rope. The free will that the goat has here is he can graze or move around to the extent he can within the length of that rope, not beyond that.” So does the goat have free will? Yes, to the extent of the length of the rope. Who decided the length of the rope? The goat did not decide it. This is a very important point. The Masters have also said that there are so many aspects that are not in our control. Factors that shape us, such as our conditioning, our parents, and the way they brought us up, the school we went to, the religion into which we were born – none of these are in our control, right? Our decisions are based on what we think, and our thinking is based on how we have been shaped. So is it truly our decision? If I had no control over all the factors which made me who I am, then is it truly ‘my’ decision? Yet, a decision needs to be made, because I cannot sit back and say, “I won't do anything. Let God decide.” Because that itself is ‘doership,’ for it is in one's nature to act in a certain way. So coming to this example, and as you mentioned Eckhart Tolle, I don't know if your channel base is familiar with him, but his book, ‘The Power of Now’, is an immense contribution to living life in the present moment. So, in a difficult situation, whether you stay, walk away or change the situation will depend upon how you, as an individual, are designed to take any step. It has to be thought about and it has to be implemented. But with the Teaching, what happens is that these options are seen objectively. Let's say, someone is harassing me, so it's always ‘Me’ versus the ‘other’ person; it's always finger-pointing (‘He is doing this to me’), and the focus is only at that level of the relationship. Now, Sai Baba Himself has said that everyone comes together on account of Rinanubandhan, the cosmic debt of a former relationship. What does this mean? It means you first cross this hurdle, you accept that this person is an instrument of the Divine (which we've already covered). Once that is done, you objectively see your options before you because your Thinking mind is no longer embroiled in the Bandhan, in the bondage. And then what happens is a decision is taken, whatever it may be, that is based on true understanding, and not as a reaction to the situation. This is precisely the meaning of Ganpati because Ganpati is the aligning of the Third Eye with the Manipura Chakra. When these two are balanced (that is why the trunk), proper decisions are taken without the ‘Me’ being embroiled and sucked into the situation like a Chakravyuha with no way out. That is how you take a decision, knowing that the results are not in your control. Nikhil: There are a few devotees who are so committed to Baba that their whole existence is essentially Baba. Aai is one such example. Now these devotees’ lives are also fraught with difficulties, but there is an underlying peace which they experience throughout that time. Could you speak a little bit about such devotees who have surrendered to Baba? Gautam: Now, that is coming back to the main point, i.e., the outcome is peace of mind, and such devotees are living examples of that. Because they have accepted that life means pleasure and pain. Many of us don't accept that, because we are running away from pain, and only want pleasure, which is not possible. You see, a river has two banks: the banks of pleasure and pain. That is why Nisargadatta Maharaj said, “Between the banks of pleasure and pain, my life flows,” which applies to everyone's life, but we want a river to have just one bank. It is not possible, because the design of life is duality - up and down, left and right, big and small, rich and poor, black and white, pleasure and pain. When we accept this duality, which is the very nature of life, then it is our first step towards peace. And then we have a Master like Sai Baba who gives us so many more dimensions to access this peace. Nikhil: Could you speak a little on that? Gautam: All the stories of the entire Satcharita, which for me is the main work, are operating at different levels - one is the level of the story, and one is the level of the peace flowing through the story, and the acceptance. When one starts reading it from that prism, one starts imbibing that. Now again, you have mentioned, let's say, someone like Aai. Aai has seen enough hardships in her life, right? But why has she not lost that sense of peace? Because of the faith. Not the faith in the way we ordinary people think of faith. We think our faith depends on getting the things we want. But true faith is the faith that whatever happens is the will of the Lord. Heaven is to be found in the heart of the man who has total faith that whatever happens is God's will. So, people like Aai are not setting up their will against God's will as: ‘This is what I want. Will Sai Baba give it to me? I want this.’ They are not circling back to the ‘Me’, like we do. They accept whatever comes from the Divine as His will. That is why they live this peace. My teacher used an example. He said, “Life is a prison. We are imprisoned in this body, and we are imprisoned by our circumstances.” That is why the Buddha said: Samsara is Dukkha; Nirvana is Shanti. Nirvana is peace. So my teacher, Rameshji, would say that what we human beings do is convert what is simple imprisonment to rigorous imprisonment! How? By the sense of ‘doership.’ By blaming, hating, condemning and judging. By feelings of malice, envy, jealousy, guilt and shame. Nikhil: All the things that Baba would ask us to get rid of. Gautam: And all these drop away when you accept that nobody truly does anything. That is called ‘living the teaching,’ and that is what Baba means when He says, “I give people what they want, so that they may want what I really want to give them.” Nikhil: Gautam, when you see this from the outside, it seems like it is one's attitude and outlook in life which are very vital. I totally understand the genetics, conditioning, and the karmic mark-up for how they will react to a situation. However, all that being preordained, if an individual faces the same situation at different times in his life, his response to the event may be totally different because of his change in attitude as his understanding of the Teaching deepens. Could you speak on that aspect? Gautam: I will bring in the example of Nisargadatta Maharaj again here, because it beautifully illustrates this. Now he was someone who was called a ‘harsh’ Master. He was very direct, to the point, and anger would arise every now and then, because that was his nature. Now one day, when somebody asked him a question in his Satsang, he got angry and said, “You have been coming to me for so long and you are asking me such a stupid question!” This man bowed down to Maharaj and said, “But, Maharaj, what can I do? God made me stupid!” And in the next moment, Maharaj burst into laughter. See, this is very important. Now, referring back to your question, which is a very valid one, what we do when anger arises is we hold on to that anger and we will not allow ourselves to laugh the next moment. Our minds will say: ‘He made me angry, now I must pretend that I'm angry. I must act angry, and I will be angry.’ With Masters, what is seen is that anger arose in ‘this’ body. It could arise in another body. So the anger is seen objectively. There is no story made around the anger, where one is involved the entire time. So each moment is honoured for what it brings; in this case, the next moment brought laughter. But there was no ‘This man has asked me this question. I have got angry. Now I'm going to be angry with him throughout. How dare he ask me this?’ That dialogue was not there. Similarly, in our lives, we will be faced with situations all the time, and we may react, because we are not the Buddha. We may not be able to control emotions like anger, but with the light of the Teaching shining on it, with the light of understanding, what happens is that the involvement gets cut off. It completely cuts off. So when you're faced with a conflict, you will see that if earlier you got embroiled and lost in the arguments and unnecessary banter, now that involvement starts dropping away, and that is when the divine light of peace shines through. I will give you an example, in a lighter vein. I was having coffee once. There were three of us, and twenty feet away at a table was a girl in a dress. The person on my left said, “Oh, that's such a lovely yellow dress!” The person on the right said, “Don't be silly, that's not a yellow dress, that's a light green dress!” Now these two kept going on and on about whether the dress was yellow or green. Then, the person on my left asked me, “Isn't the dress yellow?” I said, “Yes.” The person on my right asked, “Isn't the dress green?” I said, “Yes.” They said, “How can you tell us both that it's yellow AND green?” I said, “Look, you have been going on and on about the colour of the dress for the last five minutes, totally trying to prove to the other what colour it is. First of all, that girl is not concerned about your opinion about the colour of her dress. Secondly, through your eyes, it appears yellow; and through his eyes, it appears a shade of green. Why don't you just accept that and let it go? You see, we hold on. We are holding everything so tightly to us as if it is the Truth. In this case, something as simple as the colour of a dress! But why not just accept that another's point of view can be equally valid as yours? You may not agree with it, but end it there! Sai Baba has specifically said, “Do not engage in slander. Do not engage in criticism of others.” I can assure you that many of us who are Sai Baba devotees do just that, but yet we will pray to Sai Baba. That is our nature. That is fine. What happens with this kind of work you are doing with the channel is that we are showing devotees ways for the Teaching to permeate into our cells. That is the beauty of these kinds of exchanges, this kind of sharing, so that together, as one, we can live the Teachings of the Masters. Nikhil: Absolutely, and in fact, once all this stuff that people hold on to falls away, then it frees them up to just ‘Be’. But how does one sustain that peace and joy that one begins to experience with this understanding? If one is embroiled in conflict with family members, for example, it is very unlikely that they will be able to experience any peace when they sit for meditation. Could you talk about how the mind can be focused on Baba in His Form or Formless aspect? Gautam: You see, Nikhil, the beauty is that this starts happening on its own. For example, we started out by saying Sai Baba has said that God is pure consciousness, right? When we no longer focus on individuals, when we understand that it's the same consciousness functioning through everyone, this is already happening. Or like you said, replace each Form with Baba's Form. That is also a very common spiritual practice, which happens because one is living the Teaching. It is no longer theory. It is no longer just reading a story in the Satcharita and keeping the book aside, but actually living it. This is when your mind gets filled with thoughts of Sai Baba, thoughts of Pure Consciousness. Already the garbage has been dumped aside, so it is a natural process. That is what Eckhart Tolle refers to as ‘living in the now,’ because you are not ‘doing’ anything to live in the ‘now’. But ‘living in the now’ is happening because the Thinking mind is not engaged in an imaginary future or a dead past. That is why, in some esoteric traditions, the symbol of the Cross denotes the dead past and the imaginary future, and the point of intersection of the two arms of the Cross is where they say ‘time stands still.’ What does that mean? It means ‘living in the now.’ Nisargadatta Maharaj was once asked: “Does it help being near a sage, sitting in his presence?” And Maharaj thought about it for a while, and answered, “The trees near a sandalwood tree in a forest start emitting the same fragrance,” which means that by just being in the company of the sage, one absorbs and imbibes. Now with Sai Baba, how would that work? ‘Being in the company of Sai Baba’ means what? Having His teachings in mind all the time. Having His Form in mind, if we prefer that mode. But it cannot be that you're just in front of your temple for 15 minutes, doing Puja, and the rest of your day is a mess! Many of us do that, you see, but Satsang with Sai Baba is with every breath, not as a practice in a corner, followed by terrible relationships with people around you. It needs to be understood that living life is a meditation. By all means, meditate or do Puja, but carry that on into daily life. For example, how does sitting quietly for 15 minutes, half an hour, or one hour for meditation, impact one’s entire day? With meditation, one is witnessing the thoughts. Witnessing is happening without doing anything, just as you would see traffic going by on the road. You are separate from the traffic. You are not running away with the cars, right? You are witnessing the traffic going by on the road. In meditation, one is giving oneself the chance to witness the thoughts which are coming across the screen. So what happens in those 15 minutes or half an hour is there’s awareness that these are the thoughts, and that the witnessing of those thoughts is happening. Now this goes very far, because this starts permeating through the day - this separation between what is happening and the witnessing of that. That is why the Masters say: “You are not what happens, but you are the space in which things happen.” So, similarly, when Sai Baba's teachings are in one's consciousness throughout the day, there is an automatic process taking place, whereby you will feel that you are handling life situations differently than you were earlier, because you have been living that understanding. That is the beauty of it! Nikhil: On that note, I would like to have another talk with you, Gautam, where we can continue on what you, very rightly, just said about Puja and meditation translating into daily living. I also wanted to ask you certain pointers on true spiritual progress, which we'll do in a second interview. Gautam: Sure. Nikhil: Gautam, thank you for this. Thank you for your time. We will be asking Gautam a lot of questions in a whole series of interviews, so do stay tuned in. Om Sai. Gautam: Thank you.

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Ms B Jayashree, Head, Media Resource Centre at The M.S. Swaminathan Institute provides an introduction to perspectives and program outlines of the efforts she is involved in that support the role of women in Agriculture in India. Jayashree is a development communication professional, her prior experience includes work with UNICEF and the Gates Foundation-TAI-VHS programme. Jayashree started her career as a journalist and was South India Bureau Chief with Aaj Tak and Headlines Today, the leading TV news networks of India Today, before moving to the development sector. With Masters in Journalism, Mass Communication as well as in Human Rights Law, she was recipient of the Chevening scholarship and the One World Broadcast Fellowship to the UK, besides the RNTC Fellowship at Netherlands for journalism and media. A recipient of the Rotary Award for Vocational excellence and Society magazine nominee for Journalist of the year, she is also member in professional and alumni bodies, a trainer in development journalism and CSR. Email: jayashreeb@mssrf.res.in M.S. Swaminathan Research Foundation http://www.mssrf.org/ Subscribe to democracycast  podcasts on iTunes at: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/democracycast/id938549956?mt=2