Podcasts about Meso

What happens when inspiration doesn't strike but you still need to show up? Is it possible to live an inspired life without constantly chasing big, bold visions?Most of us think of inspiration as dramatic flashes of insight or overwhelming passion that propels us toward magnificent achievements. But this narrow definition leaves most of our lives—and many types of people—out of the "inspired" category. In this illuminating episode, I challenge this limited view and introduce a three-dimensional framework that makes inspiration accessible to everyone, regardless of circumstance.We dive deep into the multidimensional concept of inspiration and explore how to find it even when we don't feel particularly animated or resonant. • Inspiration isn't just grand epiphanies but exists on three levels: macro, meso, and micro• Macro inspiration refers to big visions, life purpose, and seeing your journey from a higher perspective• Meso inspiration involves breaking down big goals into steps and finding motivation for monthly focuses• Micro inspiration centers on finding magic in day-to-day moments, even when not working toward big goals• The heart serves as a gateway to soul wisdom and helps us move past fear to follow inspired paths• Barriers to inspiration are opportunities to pause, reflect, and perhaps approach our goals differently• True inspiration involves showing up consistently, taking small measurable steps, and seeing yourself as the hero of your own storyWhether you're feeling creatively blocked, between major life purposes, or simply wanting to experience more aliveness in ordinary moments, this episode offers practical wisdom for rekindling your inner spark and recognizing the inspiration that's already present in your life.Join us next week for an all-new episode of Your Heart Magic and more psychology, spirituality, storytelling, and heart wisdom.--Your Heart Magic is a space where heart wisdom, spirituality, and psychology meet. Enjoy episodes centered on mental health, spirituality, personal growth, healing, and well-being. Featured as one of the best Heart Energy and Akashic Records Podcasts in 2024 by PlayerFM and Globally Ranked in the top 5% in Listen Notes.Dr. BethAnne Kapansky Wright is a Licensed Psychologist, Spiritual Educator, and Akashic Records Reader. She is the author of Small Pearls Big Wisdom, the Award-Winning Lamentations of the Sea, its sequels, and several books of poetry. A psychologist with a mystic mind, she weaves perspectives from both worlds to offer holistic wisdom.FIND DR. BETHANNE ONLINE:BOOKS- www.bethannekw.com/books FACEBOOK - www.facebook.com/drbethannekw INSTAGRAM - www.instagram.com/dr.bethannekw WEBSITE - www.bethannekw.com CONTACT FORM - www.bethannekw.com/contact

Poslušalka je sestro Nikolina prosila za nasvet za pripravo sočnih piščančjih prsi. Sestra je povedala, da jih lahko dela v omaki kot piščančje zrezke, lahko naredi obaro ali pa jih prepraži za rižoto ali h kuhanim testeninam. Meso nareže na koščke in soli, po želji doda še poper in pokaplja z olivnim oljem. To lahko stori že zvečer in si s tem pomaga k hitrejši pripravi jedi. Čebulo olupimo in sesekljamo ter damo pražit. Takoj dodamo še narezano meso. Prilijemo nekaj žlic tekočine in nežno dušimo, da meso ostane mehko. Če bomo delali rižoto, lahko dodamo polnozrnat ali navadni glaziran riž ali ajdovo kašo, zalijemo z dvakratno količino vrele vode (lahko uporabimo tudi krompirjevko). Posolimo, dodamo lovorjev list in pokrijemo, da se mirno kuha oziroma brbota. Za zrezke pa meso ustrezno nareže in posoli, nežno popra in doda nekaj kapljic olja. To lahko stori zvečer, naloži v posodo in pokrije. Naslednji dan jih hitro opeče, da bodo ostali sočni. Ob meso lahko naložimo fino sesekljano čebulico, stisnemo malo česna in dobimo nekaj omake, ki jo po potrebi zgostimo.

www.runningexperte.de www.dextro-energy.com (Schnellerwerden15) www.aportha.de (4FCG48) Laufen, mentale Stärke, Trainingsplanung, Wettkampf, Coaching, Makrozyklus, Mesozyklus, Mikrozyklus, Regeneration, Lauftraining In dieser Episode des Schnellerwerden Podcasts spricht Alexander Meisolle über die mentale Komponente des Laufens, die Bedeutung einer strukturierten Trainingsplanung und die verschiedenen Zyklen im Training. Er teilt persönliche Erfahrungen aus Wettkämpfen und Coaching-Sitzungen und betont die Wichtigkeit von Regeneration und Flexibilität im Training. Zudem wird die goldene Mitte zwischen Planung und Spontaneität hervorgehoben, um langfristige Fortschritte zu erzielen. takeaways Laufen beginnt im Kopf. Deine Gedanken formen deinen Weg. Die Entscheidung zu laufen ist ein mentaler Prozess. Ziele sollten eine Vision von dir selbst beinhalten. Regeneration ist entscheidend für den Fortschritt. Die Planung sollte flexibel sein. Makro-, Meso- und Mikrozyklen sind wichtig für das Training. Die goldene Mitte ist der Schlüssel zum Erfolg. Jeder Mensch hat unterschiedliche Trainingsbedürfnisse. Fragen und Anregungen sind immer willkommen.

Send us a textHow do we balance the hands of Martha with the heart of Mary?After facing near-death experiences, the call to live intentionally and be fully present becomes even more profound. In this episode, we explore what it means to serve with purpose, seek Christ in the everyday, and embrace the gift of each moment. Tune in for a powerful conversation on slowing our pace, being on the Lord's errand and living with purpose.-----------Markell's InstagramSimply Stressless WebsiteLatter-Day Ladies ArtworkPoem on Mary & Martha (In the book: "What a Friend We Have in Jesus" by Chieko Okazaki)"My hands are those" By: Lonnie SeverinsonMy hands are those of Martha With serving cumbered aboutHome duties continue to keep meSo busy my time just runs outOh no, I don't belittle these tasks That's very trueFor motherhood's importantAs is each thing I must doStill, I long to know the master To study the words he spake That I might grow in wisdom And better decisions makeBut consumed by physical troublesAs pressures abound and buildMy spirit self becomes emptyThough my every moment filledAt these times I desire, as Mary, to choose that good partThough my hands are the hands of Martha, I am Mary in my heart.

Slovenci smo, če lahko sodim po nostalgiji, ki v nas nenehno obuja spomine na nekdanjo Jugoslavijo, zelo čustven narod. Po anketi, ki jo je leta 2021 izvedla agencija Episcenter, bi se 92 odstotkov Slovencev danes ponovno odločilo za samostojno in neodvisno Slovenijo, kar pomeni, da je jugonostalgikov manj kot deset odstotkov; največ jih je med volivci stranke Levica. So pa izjemno glasni, bolj, kot bi bilo zaželeno za stanje zdrave pameti v državi.Četudi je jugoslovanska oblast mnoge tepla, se je na to pozabilo. Celo letošnja Prešernova nagrajenka Nika Autor se z nekim romantičnim zadovoljstvom spominja obdobja, za katerega drugi menimo, da se ne sme nikoli več vrniti. Z mantro, da smo takrat živeli neprimerljivo bolj kakovostno in varno, je – žalibog – usekala mimo.Pogosto se sprašujem, zakaj s takšno lahkoto zanikamo spomine na revščino, politične pritiske, na pomanjkanje svobode govora in represijo, ki so bili del vsakdanjika mnogih državljanov. Zakaj molčimo o dolgih kolonah vozil na Fernetičih in Ljubelju, ko smo hodili na drugo stran meje po nakupih? V nostalgiji ni prostora niti za zgodbe, ki izpod peresa Igorja Omerze odkrivajo mračnjaško, zelo nasilno podobo povojne Jugoslavije. V tistih idealiziranih časih so miši in podgane predstavljale veliko nevarnost za zdravje. Gospa, ki se je upokojila okoli leta 1995, je pripovedovala, da so moko iz žakljev, v katere so se naselile miši in tam pustile drekce, presejali in jo – brez slabe vesti – prodajali. Po različnih menzah o kakšni čistoči, ki jo imamo danes, ni bilo govora … Je pa res, da smo v nekdanji Jugi jedli veliko zelja in repe. Tako se je vsaj enkrat tedensko prečistilo črevesje, kar je jako zdravilno tudi po sodobnih normah odnosa do zdravja. So pa že takrat obstajali »izbranci«, ki so se mastili tudi s kaviarjem.Natančnih podatkov o številu zobozdravnikov na prebivalca v Sloveniji med letoma 1950 in 1970 ni na voljo. Kako je bilo na podeželju, si lahko predstavljamo skozi »žirovski primer«: dr. Karel Bernik ni bil le splošni zdravnik, ampak tudi kot ginekolog, pediater, zobozdravnik in lekarnar. Boleč zob so si ljudje praviloma zdravili sami. Vzeli so krajši konec vrvice, jo na enem koncu podržali nad svečo, da je zagorelo, potem pa so vdihovali dim, ki je za krajši čas omilil bolečino. Kadar je bilo pri hiši zadosti »šnopca«, so si ga polivali po bolečem mestu. Kruh je bil v vsakem primeru svetinja! Številne povojne generacije smo odrasle ob »turšni župi«. Zalivali smo jo z mlekom, včasih tudi s kislim mlekom. Kakor hitro so dozorela zgodnja jabolka, se je kuhala »jabkava župa«. Zgostili smo jo z moko, oplemenitili pa s posneto smetano. Z velikim veseljem smo se lotili »mješte«, ki je bila kuhana iz krompirja, kaše in moke. Poslastico, drobnjakove ali orehove štruklje, je mama zelo na tanko razrezala, preden jim je dodala ocvrto smetano z malo sladkorja. Zanimivo je, da je v Jugoslaviji italijanski riž veljal za boljšo jed. Za glavno jed smo največkrat imeli »krompir na župi«. Meso je bilo komaj kdaj na mizi. Mesar ga je največkrat hranil za svoje »boljše stranke«. Prijateljica, ki je vrsto let delala na področju zdrave prehrane, pravi, da tisti, ki trdijo, da je bila hrana pred 30 in več leti bolj zdrava, nimajo prav. V kmetijstvu so uporabljali pesticide in herbicide, ki so danes prepovedani zaradi škodljivih vplivov na zdravje in okolje. V industrijsko pridelani hrani so pred desetletji uporabljali konzervanse, barvila in ojačevalce okusa, ki so danes regulirani ali prepovedani, npr. natrijev benzoat, ki ima danes omejeno uporabo, saj lahko povzroča alergijske reakcije. Hormoni v mesu, denimo sintetični estrogeni, so danes v EU prepovedani, nekoč pa so jih uporabljali za hitrejšo rast živine.Hrana je bila pogosto onesnažena s težkimi kovinami, kot so svinec, kadmij in živo srebro. Tudi ribe iz nekaterih rek so bile polne težkih kovin zaradi tovarniških izpustov.Če niste več rosno mladi, se lahko spomnite pljuvalnikov, ki so bili nameščeni po vseh prostorih v zdravstvenih domovih, tovarniških halah in tudi po pisarnah. Tudi zdravnik s cigareto v ustih je bil čisto običajen pojav. So si tisti, ki so imeli neposreden stik s predelavo hrane, redno umivali roke? Uši in stenice so bile prijazne, zelo udomačene domače živalce. V življenju nekoč ne bi iskala nostalgije in to velja za slehernega med nami. Prav tako za njim ne bi jokala, bi si pa zapisala zgodbe, ki jih pomnijo tisti, ki so takrat živeli. In to brez olepševanja! Dejstvo je, da današnji standardi medsebojnih odnosov, higiene, zdravstva, prehrane in hipotetično tudi svobode prinašajo večjo kakovost življenja, kot smo jo poznali nekoč. Namesto da si preteklost prikazujemo skozi rožnata očala, bi bilo bolj smiselno, da se iz nje nekaj naučimo in potem izkoristimo to znanje za gradnjo boljše prihodnosti. Kajti »dobri stari časi« so pogosto le spomin, oblikovan skozi prizmo časa, ne pa nujno odraz resničnosti.

Comienza el camino hacia Wrestlemania y el Meso y Tute nos dan su opinion del Royal Rumble 2025.

Sukii y Meso nos dan su opinion de la nueva temporada de la serie animada de vampiros inspirada en los clasicos videojuegos. Disponible ya en Netflix.

Sestra Nikolina je povedala tudi nekaj kratkih nasvetov za kuharice, ki pripravljajo segedin. Meso naj bo dobro prepraženo na čebuli, prijetno mora biti začinjeno - dodamo sesekljan česen, narezano papriko in nato ga dušimo - lahko tudi s krompirjevo vodo. Pokrito ga dušimo, da se zmehča. Zelje naj naj ne bo prekislo, sicer ga še enkrat operemo. Prav tako predolgo zelje narežemo. Skupaj kuhamo30-45 minut. Po želji lahko dodamo malo paradižnikove mezge.

Pravi kuharji težko govorijo o točnih količinah, lažje bodo govorili o tem, kaj da dober okus jedi, katera sestavina ne sme manjkati, kaj specifična sestavina doprinese jedi in kako jo uravnovesi. In nič drugače ni z našo stalno strokovnjo gostjo - Simone Godina, ki jo poznate predvsem kot strokovnjakinjo za vse, kar se hormonskega dogaja v naših organizmih in zdravstveno trenerko za ščitnico in hormone. Za tole epizodo je zapisala: Prehrana in črevesje Dobra prebava in zdrav črevesni mikrobiom sta temelj za uravnotežen imunski odziv. Z uravnoteženjem črevesne flore in "dresuro črevesja," kot temu rada rečem, podpiramo celotno telo, da bolje absorbira hranila, potrebna za optimalno delovanje ščitnice. Vključitev vlaknin, fermentirane hrane in zdravih maščob je pomembna za izboljšanje črevesne mikrobiote. Pri teh receptih bomo torej s svežo zelenjavo, koristnimi začimbami in vlakninami podprli svoje telo na poti do boljšega zdravja ščitnice in močnejšega imunskega sistema. (Simone Godina) HITRO KITAJSKO ZELJE V VOKU PO DOMAČE Sestavine: • 150 g kitajskega zelja (mehkejši deli za solato, trši deli narezani na kvadrate 2x2 cm) • 1/2 rdeče čebule, narezane na tanke trakove • 1 korenček, nariban • 100 g gob (za vegansko verzijo) ali 100 g piščanca ali drugega mesa, narezanega na trakove • 1 žlica arašidovega ali sezamovega olja (primerno za visoke temperature) • 1/2 čajne žličke začimbe zatar • 1/2 čajne žličke curryja • Sol in rdeči poper po okusu • Sveža zelišča za okras Priprava: 1. Vok segrej in dodaj olje. Najprej na hitro popraži čebulo in korenje. 2. Dodaj kitajsko zelje in gobe ali meso ter praži, dokler zelenjava ni al dente (rahlo hrustljava). 3. Meso lahko popečeš posebej ali ga na koncu dodaš k zelenjavi. 4. Začini z začimbami, soljo in poprom ter premešaj. 5. Postrezi z zelišči po vrhu.

Violence has an echo, growing louder with each reverberation . . . how do you stop its echo once it starts ringing?Ashme is a New Mesopotamian--a "Meso." She dreams of being a hero, fighting against the brutal Ostarrichi ruling her country. She is an indigo child, her DNA modified by sentient AI, enabling her to control computer systems at will. With this power, she has something to offer the Meso resistance. Her twin brother, Shen, however, suffers from a neurological disorder and needs someone to care for him. Increasingly, that task falls on her.How can she become the hero her people need when her brother's needs are overwhelming? If she continues caring for Shen while joining the resistance, she risks leading Ostarrichi forces to her home. If she leaves, then looking after Shen will fall to her cousin, who is already overworked caring for his frail grandmother.As her society collapses into violence, Ashme must choose between her fellow Mesos, her family, and her values.Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/houseofmysteryradio. Become a member at https://plus.acast.com/s/houseofmysteryradio. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Poslušalka je vprašala, za kaj vse lahko uporabi meso iz goveje juhe. Sestra Nikolina je posredovala več idej. Lahko ga doda k mletemu mesu za pripravo polpetov ali pa pripravi nadev. Meso je treba zmleti, dodamo jajce, praženo čebulo, česen, peteršilj in jajce. Narediti mora lepo mazav nadev. In potem ga naloži na razvaljano testo (kot pri npr. jabolčnem zavitku) in speče. To bo kot glavna jed, zraven ponudimo še solato. Lahko pa se pripravijo tudi štrukeljci, ki se zakuhajo v juhi ...

LLega a su conclusion la historia de Arcane de League of Legends. Sukii y MESO nos dan su opinion de lo acontecido y del siginficado de la historia para la franquicia.

O fake para além da mentira, mas enquanto construção da realidade!.Encerramos a participação da caverna de 20254 com o no livro de Benito Meso, "o fake", pela Platô Editorial, uma nova obra, com novos questionamentos e de forma propositiva para a esquerda!.Redes sociais:Insta: be_maesoPara adquirir o livro: https://platoeditorial.com/product/o-fake-2/.Para adquirir seu livro da Autonomia Literária com CUPONS DE DESCONTO:#MorcegoNaAutonomia (cupom de desconto de 20% nos livros da Autonomia Literária) - https://autonomialiteraria.com.br/loja/.Drive das leituras (Roteiro disponibilizado no drive sobre a terceira temporada):https://mega.nz/folder/UYNwQZZS#rCNoahoz13hVy7Elyc4Ymg.Não se esqueça de nos seguir nas redes sociais para ficar sempre por dentro dos nossos conteúdos:.instagram: @morcego_marcos_bsky: marcosmorcego.bsky.socialYoutube: https://www.youtube.com/livescavernadomorcegoTwitch: twitch.tv/cavernamorcego.Colabore com a Caverna do Morcego, seja um apoiador:Apoio coletivo:apoia.se/cavernamorcegopicpay: @ marcos.morcegopix e email de contato: podcastmorcego@gmail.com.Equipe:Roteiro/edição : Marcos MorcegoVoz/Postagem: Marcos Morcego

MUSICNEEDTOBREATHE"Who Am I"Woo-ooh-oohWoo-ooh-oohWhite lies and desperationHard times and conversationNo one should ever love me like you doSometimes my bad decisionsDefine my false suspicionsNo one should ever love me like you doWhile I'm on this road you take my handSomehow you really love who I really amI push you away, still you won't let goYou grow your roses on my barren soulWho am I, who am I, who am ITo be loved by you?Who am I, who am I, who am ITo be loved by you?Who am I, who am I, who am ITo be loved by you?Who am I, who am I, who am I?Last night, confidence was shakenMy wounds and my past was sayingNo one should ever love me like you doWhile I'm on this road you take my handSomehow you really love who I really amI push you away, still you won't let goYou grow your roses on my barren soulWho am I, who am I, who am ITo be loved by you?Who am I, who am I, who am ITo be loved by you?Who am I, who am I, who am ITo be loved by you?Who am I, who am I, who am I?The way I put you through it, what you had to seeI'm a train wreck, I'm a mess, you see the bestAnd the worst in meStill I can't imagine that I've earned your trustI don't understand where your love comes fromWho am I, who am I, who am ITo be loved by you?Who am I, who am I, who am ITo be loved by you?Who am I, who am I, who am ITo be loved by you?Who am I, who am I, who am ITo be loved by you?Who am I, who am I, who am ITo be loved by you?Who am I, who am I, who am ITo be loved by you?Who am I, who am I, who am I (yeah)To be loved by you?Who am I, who am I, who am ITo be loved by you?"Garden"Won't you take this cup from meCause fear has stolen all my sleepIf tomorrow means my deathPray you'll save their souls with itLet the songs I sing bring joy to youLet the words I say confess my loveLet the notes I choose be your favorite tuneFather let my heart be after youIn this hour of doubt I seeWho I am is not just meSo give me strength to die myselfSo love can live to tell the taleLet the songs I sing bring joy to youLet the words I say confess my loveLet the notes I choose be your favorite tuneFather let my heart be after youFather let my heart beFor youFor youFor youFor youLet the songs I sing bring joy to youLet the words I say confess my loveLet the notes I choose be your favorite tuneFather let my heart be after youFather let my heart be after you

Nova epizoda podcasta Snaga uma posvećena je odnosu između snage društva i snage institucija, u svetlu nedavno dodeljene Nobelove nagrade za ekonomiju. Prof.dr Miodrag Zec govorio je o uticaju jakih instituticija i slobode pojedinca na kompletan prosperitet društva, ali i kako to izgleda u koruptivnim društvima, kroz istoriju do aktuelnog trenutka. "Vođa drži kutlaču, a kazan je sve prazniji. Nekome sipa meso, nekoga udari kutlačom po glavi... Tako izgleda raspodela društvenog proizvoda ovde", ilutrsovao je prof.dr Miodrag Zec u živom, poučnom i edukativnom gostovanju u novoj epizodi podcasta Snaga uma.

An interview with  Celina Sanchez, Development and Marketing Director at Micro Enterprise Services of Oregon (MESO), Josh Lyons, Market President of Keybank for Oregon and Southwest Washington, Tiffany Canifax, Business Banking team lead and Key4Women Chair for Oregon, and Pallavi Pande, winner of the business pitch contest for women owned businesses. MESO is a non-profit that teams up with Keybank for the contest to promote women in business.

A huge THANK YOU to our Patrons:  Michael Devries, irvin ruiz, Hoshi 127, and Nora Klimek, who are supporting us on the “credited” level.  www.patreon.com/bdckr Thanks to the following for providing fodder for our Q&A: @dakaraindoro8346 (Account Building Strategy: Micro/Meso/Macro) Public Mobile referral code: VPM35Z --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/bdckr/support

Marybeth Alexander has been the Knowledge Goddess and Chief Executive Owl at KnowledgeOwl since she co-founded the company with Pete in 2015. As KnowledgeOwl's CEO, she's responsible for embodying KnowledgeOwl's mission and values, which include using business as a force for good, cultivating a people-first company, giving excellent service to everyone, and creating awesome knowledge based software.   Questions  · We always like to give our guests an opportunity to share in their own words, a little bit about their journey. So, if you could share with our listeners just a little bit about how you got from where you were to where you are today. · Could you share with our audience what exactly is KnowledgeOwl, and what do you do on a daily basis? · What are some of the successes that you've experienced as a CEO of an organization of this nature, and if you were to predict where you see customers experience going in another 3 to 5 years, based on where the technology is currently, what are some of your predictions where that's concerned? · Now, Marybeth, can you share with our listeners, what's the one online resource, tool, website or application that you absolutely can't live without in your business? · Can you also share with our listeners, maybe one or two books that you've read, it could be a book that you read a very long time ago, or even one that you've read recently that had a great impact on you, and it could be an impact that affected you personally or professionally. · Now, can you also share with us what's the one thing that's going on in your life right now that you're really excited about, either something you're working on to develop yourself or your people. · Where can listeners find you online? · Now, before we wrap our episodes up, we always like to give our guests an opportunity to share with us a quote. So, do you have a quote that during times of adversity or challenge, you'll tend to revert to this quote if for any reason you get derailed or you get off track, the quote kind of helps to get you back on track. Do you have one of those?   Highlights Marybeth's Journey Me: Now, we always like to give our guests an opportunity to share in their own words, a little bit about their journey. So, if you could share with our listeners just a little bit about how you got from where you were to where you are today.   Marybeth shared that she'll try to do the short version of this. So, she just loves helping people. All of her jobs are her favorite, her favorite jobs have always revolved around people. She loved being a camp counselor, she was a teacher. She also really loved working in hospitality. She loved working at restaurants and bartending and serving folks. And then she transitioned into software support, and she loved helping people there too.  So, she got into software. She was a teacher for a while, and then she transitioned into software, which was actually a pretty good transition, because a lot of the same skills that make you a good teacher for kids also makes you good at doing software support for adults.  So, she grew her leadership in that realm, and she went from being on the support team to being a team lead, to a manager, to a director, and then she got this little opportunity to head up a product, which was a knowledge based product, it was called Help Gizmo at the time.  And she took that opportunity. I was basically like the product owner or manager of that product, and they brought it to market, and then that company didn't want to continue that project, so they ended up giving them the opportunity to buy it, and that is how she accidentally ended up as the CEO of a software company.  She likes to call herself an accidental entrepreneur, because she didn't start out that way, but as luck would have it, she got the opportunity, and now it's been almost 10 years.   What is KnowledgeOwl? Me: Now, Marybeth, could you share with our audience what exactly is KnowledgeOwl, and what do you do on a daily basis?   Marybeth shared that KnowledgeOwl, they call it knowledge based software, but it was essentially, what knowledge based software is, is a specific type of software that allows you to create a website to share information with whoever your audience is, that is often times your customers.  So, a lot of people use them for their help center and documentation for their software products, but they also sometimes use it for their products for their customers, they have airlines who use them for their help and FAQs, for their customers on their website.  They have customer service teams that use them as a knowledge base for their call center agents. They have lots of companies that use them as their internal knowledge base for all of their playbooks and policies and procedures. So, pretty much what they do every day is help people with these knowledge based websites that help them help their customers, whoever they might be.   Me: I think knowledge base is an extremely good thing for customers, because I do find if a customer has an issue, they tend to do their own troubleshooting first before they actually pick up the phone and call a company or even reach out to a representative at a company. So, if you have a strong knowledge base, you're actually empowering the customer to fix the problem themselves.    Marybeth agreed totally yes, most people do not want to contact your support team, there are a small percentages of people that do, but most people want to be able to self-serve. And when we're talking about giving your customers a great experience and giving them great customer service, a big part of that is allowing them to get help the way they want to get help, and most people would prefer to do it themselves.    Me: So, walk me through, let's choose an industry, let's say, for example, an automotive industry. You sell motor vehicles, for example, and you are trying to create a knowledge base for your team members, so this would be internal with let's say product knowledge, or just general information that customers may call and ask about frequently. Is it that they have to document the information and then give it to you, and you feed it into the knowledge based software, or is that something that you provide for them as well, the research and the documentation that is fed into the knowledge based software?   Marybeth shared that they basically provide the software tool for them. So, their customers like, let's say this automotive, this car service company or automotive company, they would purchase KnowledgeOwl and then somebody on their team would be the one that would put all the content in. So, often times this could be a manager of a team, sometimes you have somebody whose job it is to do like documentation or training, but often times it is like the support team itself, like the people doing the work, they will go in there and document the answers to questions, because on many support teams, you know what team leads end up doing, or like the advanced folks on the team that have been there for a while, is they end up being the go to person and having to answer the same questions over and over again for the other teammates.  So, rather than just answering those same questions over and over again, those people will go to the knowledge based software create a document that says, here's information about this automotive vehicle, here's information like a frequent process that we use. And here's how to do this for the customer, and they'll write it down, so that way their teammates can then reference that or look for it in the knowledge base and get the answer without having to ask them.  So, it speeds up the process and the not just internally, but also it helps the customers get answers faster, because the teammates can find the information they need to help the customers faster.    Me: And your knowledge based software facilitates different formats, so, for example, it could be an audio file, it could be a video file, it could be just a document that the customer is reading.   Marybeth stated exactly. So, it's basically a website. She likes to tell people, pretty much anything you can put in a website, you can put it inside KnowledgeOwl.  So, a lot of times it's going to be text. So, a lot of times it's processes, it's procedures, it's information. But in terms of training in like a video format, you could have audio files in there. You could even like host files. So, if you need to have, like a PDF document or a forum that you need to print and give to a customer, you can store those in the knowledge base as well to make it easy for people to find, print, download it and use that information.  So, essentially, a knowledge base can become sort of the single source of truth for your team. So, rather than having to remember where this forum lives, or where that procedure lives, or where the information about like that car lives, it's all in the same place, so that people can search one place and go to one place to find all of the information they need to do their jobs.   Me: And if the organization already has their own website, Mary Beth, is it that knowledge base has some form of feature that integrates into what they have already, so you live on their server that exists? Or do they have to host their website now through your website?   Marybeth shared that it's not their whole website. So, a knowledge base is typically a separate website. So, you might have your website, which is like www.likemyamazingcompany.com and then you might have your knowledge base for your customers, and that might be on help.myamazingcompany.com or support.myamazingcompany.com so it's actually a separate website that people can go to that is either public or it could be behind a login, because sometimes you only want your logged in customers to access it, or especially if it's an internal knowledge base, you probably only want your employees accessing all of your internal company information.  So, it's often times a separate website. But there are ways you can integrate the knowledge base into your main website if you want to. They have an embeddable help widget, some people go a little bit more advanced with that, but generally it's a separate, standalone website that complements the information on your regular website.   Predictions for Customer Experience in the Next 3 to 5 Years Me: Now, since you've been in this operation for about 10 years you mentioned earlier, what are some of the successes that you've experienced as a CEO of an organization of this nature, and if you were to predict where you see customers experience going in another 3 to 5 years, based on where the technology is currently, what are some of your predictions where that's concerned?   Marybeth shared that in terms of successes, her successes are all going to be people based because I think, like you, she was looking at Yanique's website, it's for her, it's all about the people, and giving people a great experience and making sure that not only, like their customers are having a great experience and love working with them and love using their software, but also that the people that work with them, like their staff members are having a great experience working for KnowledgeOwl too and their vendors who are having a great experience working with them as a company.  So, for her, like the biggest success has been building a community of not just customers, but staff members and team members and other vendors and organizations, a really supportive community that cares about each other. But in terms of looking forward in the industry, it's a very interesting time; especially with the word that is on everybody's mind right now is AI. So, everyone is talking about chatbots, right? So, everybody wants to talk about how they can make a ChatGPT for their company and their customers, and they can automate more of your customer service and their customer experience. But for them and who knows what it's going to look like in 3 to 5 years, because the landscape is changing so fast. But what she does strongly feel like is having your company knowledge documented, like having your product, your services, everything in a knowledge base is now more important than ever, because especially with AI, the only way that AI learns is by getting trained.  And one of the best ways to train your AI is to have all of your policies, your procedures, your documentation about your company, your product and your services and your processes written down so that the AI can learn.  So, she thinks what we're going to see over the next 3 to 5 years is even more formal focus on creating and maintaining great documentation, which for many companies, that's always been really important.   So, like most business books you're going to read at the end of the day, the magic secret to like growing your business is to document everything right and to document all your policies and procedures and processes so that you can scale your company, and other people can do what you do.  And that's always sort of been the not very sexy, but honest truth about what great companies look like as they have their policies and procedures and everything well documented. But she thinks what we're going to start to see is that not only are people going to be creating like great documentation for customers and creating great documentation for their teams internally, but they're going to be creating documentation for AI tools as well.   Me: I think that's a very good point that you just brought across the fact that the knowledge base can train the AI, because a lot of times I find that even with chatbots that are attached to organizations, you may start the conversation to resolve an issue, but the bot can answer maybe just the very basic question. And so, a lot of times when I talk to people, they mention that they don't even entertain the bot because they know that they're not going to get the answer they're looking for so they automatically tell the bot they'd like to speak with a live representative, or an agent for the conversation to end with the bot and actually be talking to a live human being in the chat. But maybe that could mitigate the intervention of live agents or representatives if it is that the bot is, as you mentioned, trained fully by the policies that have been documented and simple questions that maybe is embedded in your website, or maybe the customer is not able to quickly identify, the bot can say, “Okay, this is the policy or this is the rate for this,” or whatever the information is as it relates to the organization, again, minimizing the customer having to reach out to someone and speak to them in person or live.   Marybeth agreed and shared that she thinks what's going to be the sort of people of this is we're going to get to a point, probably here in the next 3 to 5 to 10 years, where you might have trouble telling whether you're talking to a real human or a bot. So, think about like the chats on website. So, a lot of bots, you can tell they're a bot because they tell you that they're a bot and it's very simplistic, but the more conversational bots, like, if you've had a chat with ChatGPT, like it's conversational, it can go back and forth with you, you can have an ongoing conversation that builds upon what you were previously talking about.  So, she thinks there is going to be a lot, and it's already starting. There are a lot of AI customer enablement tools, customer service enablement tools that they've been testing, and they've seen other companies using that learn from your knowledge base and your past emails and conversations, what your tone is, how you usually respond, what the correct answer is most likely to be. And there are these tools out there that right now, if they're confident, they can actually reply as an agent would, versus having the agent actually do it. And there's a lot of companies that are very nervous about that with good measure, because we don't want people giving out bad information.  But the agents are suddenly becoming, they're just double checking before the bot sends their answer, but the bots actually writing everything and creating the response and then having that engagement. So, she thinks we might get to a point where sometimes it might be hard to tell whether it's a real person or not.   App, Website or Tool that Marybeth Absolutely Can't Live Without in Her Business When asked about an online resource that she can't live without in her business, Marybeth mentioned if it's cheating to say KnowledgeOwl?  KnowledgeOwl is interesting because that is where they document not just everything about their products. They have their customer facing knowledge base, which they use to understand how their product works and their customers do as well. But they have all of their internal company documentation in KnowledgeOwl as well. But as a team, they're a remote team, so they're 100% remote, they're distribute everywhere.  So, their team relies a lot on Slack to connect with each other and have like an online space where they all can all exist and not just talk about work but talk about life and interact with everybody. And it's that necessarily that Slack is that important, because if Slack wasn't there, they'd probably be using Microsoft Teams or some other tool to do that collaboration. But having collaborative, like a space for your team to collaborate together and help each other out and just sort of be together and care for each other as humans is really important, especially we move into an age where there's like less in person interactions and support teams and customer services teams are often going to be distributed. She thinks having that space is really important.   Books that Have Had the Biggest Impact on Marybeth When asked about books that have had a great impact, Marybeth shared that she's actually going to give you three. So, yes, she's got three for you. So, number one, it was Zingerman's Guide to Giving Great Service, and she probably first read this about 15 years ago, someone gave it to her, and she said, “What does this have to do? I'm running a software company support team. This is a food service book.” And she read it, and it was the first time that she actually saw someone be able to define the steps to actually giving great service and the steps to actually handle a complaint. And it might have seemed really simple at first, but she has been using the same framework for about 15 years now, and it really works. So, it was the first time she was able to take something that was very conceptional, like great service, and actually give someone a process to follow. So that's number one, is Zingerman's Guide to Great Service.   A compliment to that is Zingerman's Guide to Good Leading, it's a series of books. There's one on building a great business, there's one on being a better leader, there's one on managing ourselves, and another one's about the power of beliefs in business. And these books and series of books have really influenced her whole philosophy about the type of company she wants to build, about the types of teams she wants to build and how she wants to treat people. So, those have been really important to me.  And then her third one, which is more for the business owners or the team leaders on here, but it is Buy Back Your Time by Dan Martell, it came out last year or the year before, but it has been life changing for her, and sort of organizing her life and figuring out how to grow herself as a leader.    What Marybeth is Really Excited About Now! When asked about something that she's excited about, Marybeth shared that she thought about this one a little bit, and this might sound a little bit wild, so she's like a customer service person at heart. Like, support is her jam, she loves customer service, but what she's really excited about right now is sales and marketing. The reason she's very excited about sales and marketing is because she's done a complete 180. When she first started KnowledgeOwl, she thought sales and marketing were bad words, she thought they were icky. They did not have anybody doing sales and marketing, a dedicated team, and they grew their company to this point without really focusing on sales and marketing, because they thought it was something sort of gross, like, she's a support person, she likes helping people, and she sort of see sales and marketing, or she used think about sales and marketing as sort of this other thing that businesses had to do, but it was sort of gross.   And what she's realized recently is that sales and marketing can be done good, or it can be done poorly like many things, it's just a tool, and if we think about it through the lens of customer experience and customer service, and how do we add more value for our customers, and how do we give them a better experience in the world?   And how do we do more good, then sales and marketing become a really interesting skill to learn and problem to figure out, because she thinks they can do it in a way that is true to their values. And it's very people centered and is very helpful and is very centered in service. And it's a totally new area for her. So, she's getting to learn, she's getting to apply all of her learnings and feelings about customer service and experiences to the realms of sales and marketing, and she's really excited to figure it all out with her team.   Where can listeners find Marybeth online? LinkedIn - Marybeth Alexander LinkedIn – KnowledgeOwl Website – www.knowledgeowl.com Email – marybeth@knowledgeowl.com   Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Marybeth Uses When asked about a quote that she tends to revert to, Marybeth shared that she has many of those. She loves a good mantra. And she thinks her favorite one that she keeps returning to, and she writes it down a lot is….Enjoy yourself. And to her, it's a quote from a song that she really likes. But in times of adversity, when things seem to her not going well, when she feels like she's unmoored or a little bit lost, remembering that life is short and that it's shorter than we think, and to remember to enjoy ourselves, and it brings her back to her why. It brings her back to her purpose, and it really helps her to refocus things. So, it brings her back to that positive frame of mind. So, enjoy yourself.   Me: So, Marybeth, just want to extend our gratitude to you for taking time out of your very busy schedule and jumping on our podcast with us today. Conversation was amazing, just learning about Knowledge Owl, and just learning about the impact of a knowledge base and the future of customer experience as it relates to integrating the knowledge base into our different platforms and allowing the customer to be able to self-serve and resolve their issues that much quicker and get information at the tip of their fingers. So, I think it was really insightful, I hope that my listeners gained as much insight from it as I did. I thought it was wonderful, and I just want to thank you so much for sharing with us today.   Please connect with us on X @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest   Links •    Zingerman's Guide to Giving Great Service by Ari Weinzweig •    Zingerman's Guide to Good Leading, Part 1: A Lasped Anarchist's Approach to Building a Business by Ari Weinzweig •    Buy Back Your Time: Get Unstruck, Reclaim Your Freedom, and Build Your Empire by Dan Martell   The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners  Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience.” The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty. This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately! This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others. Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!

BP has decided to sell its onshore wind business in the US, aligning with the company's return focusing on oil and gas. GE Vernova has partnered with Italian company Lizard Renewables to develop over a gigawatt of renewable power in Italy. Engie has added Ares Management as a partner in a 2.7 gigawatt portfolio in North America. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly email update on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard's StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary Barnes' YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! Pardalote Consulting - https://www.pardaloteconsulting.comWeather Guard Lightning Tech - www.weatherguardwind.comIntelstor - https://www.intelstor.com NF92324 Allen Hall: I'm Allen Hall, president of Weather Guard Lightning Tech, and I'm here with the founder and CEO of IntelStor, Phil Totaro, and the chief commercial officer of Weather Guard Lightning Tech, Joel Saxum. And this is your News Flash. Newsflash is brought to you by our friends at IntelStor. If you want market intelligence that generates revenue, then book a demonstration of IntelStor at IntelStor. com French power utility Engie has partnered with Ares management in a significant us renewable energy deal. Engie North America has attracted Ares management infrastructure opportunities fund as a minority partner in a 2. 7 gigawatt portfolio. of operational solar, wind, and co located storage assets across the U. S. This transaction, NJ's largest operating portfolio sell down in the U. S., involves 15 plants across ERCOT, MESO, PJM, and SPP. Okay, Phil, a lot of acquisitions and mergers happening again, this time with Engie. Philip Totaro: Yeah, this one is Interesting a little bit because it's More or less their first foray besides what they've done in offshore. It's one of their first kind of forays into significant minority ownership from a financially focused partner And, Ares obviously has an appetite. Ares owns a few other assets in the U. S., either majority or significant minority as well. And so to add this kind of a portfolio to the mix gives both companies, It helps both companies achieve what they want in terms of, freeing up some additional capital for Engie to go reinvest in other projects and, bringing on a partner that wants financially viable assets in their, in their portfolio mix. So, look, we've talked about a number of these kinds of deals in the past where, a financially focused company gets into a portfolio, either minority, majority but partners in some way, shape, or form with an experienced owner and operator and it's, it's good to see this, this matchup. And I would expect if there's anyone else out there that hasn't already, executed deals like this, they are probably looking to go in this direction because there is a lot of capital that it's sitting on the sidelines right now. You're, you're not seeing tons and tons of new capital go into new project build out because of interest rates and et cetera. But there is capital kind of sitting on the sidelines that wants to be able to get into renewables. This is still one way they can do that by partnering on a pre existing portfolio. Joel Saxum: And from an operational standpoint, Ares just, I think, a few years ago acquired the majority stake in Apex Clean Energy. And when that happened, I know the Apex Teams ended up operating their assets more themselves. So, and where they were traditionally kind of like letting other ISPs or whatever, or, or FSAs manage them, they turned into a different financial model. So you can look for some of these assets that Engie manages right now with the Ares funds and to possibly adjust how they manage these things. from a operational standpoint as well. But like Phil said,

In this episode of weekend message, Coach Bala expressed his pride in the runners' progress and emphasized the importance of the upcoming peak mesocycle, which accounts for a significant portion of the total season distance. He also discussed the concept of 'command performance' in the context of running and life, and the importance of nutrition, stretching, and rest during training. Lastly, he announced an upcoming race day, an invitation to a Garba dance evening, and the arrival of T-shirts for the season. Next steps Runners to focus on nutrition during peak mesocycle, including pre-run, during-run, and post-run nutrition strategies. Runners to register for the October 19th race day event and lunch. Runners to complete the feedback survey for the running program.

Bob Carrothers has 29 years of experience, he facilitates peer-to-peer boards of CEOs and executives, creating environments conducive to skill enhancement, informed decision-making and superior results. Bob is certified as an Emergenetics advisor and Predictive Index practitioner, equipping him with a profound understanding of human behaviour and cognition.    Questions · So, we always like to ask our guests, in your own words, could you share a little bit about your journey? How you got from where you were to where you are today? · What would you say maybe if you could pick three overarching tenets or competencies that you believe CEOs need to practice or embrace in order to really achieve the three areas that just mentioned. · What are some of the key things that make an organization successful? · Now, Bob, can you also share with our audience, what's the one online resource, tool, website or application that you absolutely cannot live without in your business? · Now, can you also share with our listeners maybe one or two books that you have read, it could be a book that you read a very long time ago, or even one that you've read recently, but it had a great impact on you, whether it be personally or professionally. · Bob, can you share with our audience what's the one thing that's going on in your life right now that you are really excited about, either something you're working on to develop yourself or your people. · Where can listeners find you online? · Now, before we wrap our episodes up, Bob, we always like to ask our guests, do you have a quote or saying that during times of adversity or challenge, you'll tend to revert to this quote if for any reason you get derailed or you get off track, the quote kind of helps to get you back on track. Do you have one of those?   Highlights Bob's Journey Me: So, we always like to ask our guests, in your own words, could you share a little bit about your journey? How you got from where you were to where you are today?   Bob shared that it's been a very interesting journey. He started out as an entrepreneur; he had companies involved in the meat trading business. So, they bought and sold animal parts, lungs, livers, kidneys, everything that was most people would consider waste from an animal, and then they would resell them to people we knew wanted them, mostly to pet food companies, that's where the tonnage went. And then others to went to Mexico. Others went into sausage making, Chorizo making on the West Coast. They just find a buyer and go do it. And they'd go into a packing house and buy their entire production of lungs or livers or whatever, and then resell it into the pet food canning business. So, it's been an interesting ride.  In 1996 he got out of that business. He sold it to his management team, and they took it over, and they're still running it. And then after that, he started another company that failed miserably. He lost a ton of money. He was crushed, and it was hard and then he looked around, and he'd been a Vistage member, and he loved it. And he knew that with all the ups and downs he's had in his life, he could help people from making mistakes and doing what he did and living that life. So, he reached out to his past business chair, and he hired him, and that was in 1996, so he's been doing this ever since, September of 1996, so it's been quite a ride.   Overarching Tenets or Competencies CEO's Need to Embrace to Unlock Their Potential, Enhance Performance and Achieve Their Goals Me: Now, you focus on empowering CEOs to unlock their full potential, enhance their performance and achieve their goals. Based on your many years of experience, Bob in this space, working, I'm sure with CEOs and entrepreneurs across different industries, what would you say maybe if you could pick three overarching tenets or competencies that you believe CEOs need to practice or embrace in order to really achieve the three areas that I just mentioned.   Bob shared that he thinks they need to establish a great culture in their company and mind it. Nurture it and protect it, because culture trumps everything, nothing else matters. Your people won't be happy, you won't keep people, you will make your customers angry, your suppliers angry, and you'll do a really bad job because your employees won't care. And so, that's the first thing he would say, is build a strong culture.  The second thing is to hire correctly, be slow to hire and fast to make them available to industry. So, that's really important. If the employee can't do the job they were hired to do, they need to move on and then hire the right people. Put a lot of effort in your hiring process. And the other one would be, watch the money. You've got to keep track of your cash flow, you got to predict what the cash is going to be down the road. Bigger companies have CFOs to do that, and then they'll report to the CEO. Smaller ones, often the CEO will do it themselves. But you have to do it, because if you run out of cash, you're out of business. It's just really simple, if you can't make payroll, then you're gone.   Key Things for an Organization Success Me: So, Bob, in working with these different organizations, right? We're trying to establish what are some of the key things that make an organization successful? And so, the customer experience is critical in all businesses regardless of whether or not you have a face-to-face type of interaction or you're just digital and people are communicating with you solely through the internet. But leadership is very important for a business, whether you're a solopreneur or you're a fortune 500 company, regardless of the size, it's driven by the leader in the organization. As it relates to customer experience, if you were to maybe give us an example of a use case, a good use case, example that you've observed over the years in working with these CEOs, what do you think are some of the key things that make them be able to have a successful customer experience, one in which their customers are their brand advocates, their evangelists, their word of mouth advertisers. If that company decided not to advertise for the next two, three years, they would still be doing great business because their customers view them as fans. What would you say are key things in that?   Bob shared that there's one company that comes to mind, and that CEO was brilliant, and the culture in the company was extremely strong. He would walk around his plant every day, and he knew everybody's name and met family members, and he'd walk up to him and just say, “Hey, Charlie, how you doing? How's the family? How's your wife? I heard your son Robbie is sick.” He would do that, and the employees felt that they were cared for.  He never stopped setting goals, he never stopped doing things that would make the work fun. He was trying to reduce shrinkage one day, and it kept bugging him, it was going on for months, and he decided he'd just do a little contest, and he went out and bought an old junker car and a whole bunch of sledgehammers, and every day the group, the employees reduced the amount of shrinkage, they could go out and beat up on the car. And it was just amazing how much fun they were having and how just beating a car, they hit their goal for sure, and it cost the CEO, like, what $500 to do that.  He had other contests like dunk the CFO, where he had one of those dunking tubs. Certain goals were reached, that was out in the parking lot. He saw him with his customers. One of their Vistage speakers impacted him so much that he invited his customers from around the country to come to his plant, see the plant, and hear this speaker present, and because it made such an impact on him, he wanted his customers to be better too, so he thought this speaker could really help him.  What else did he do? Whenever he'd walk up to somebody and they promised to do something for him, he recorded it on his phone, so he'd pull it out and before he saw them, pull up their name and say, “Hey, how are you coming on that project we talked about?” And the accountability went through the roof. Just little things like that, simple things. But he had one goal, that if the company reached so much in revenue sales, he knew that if it did, they'd make extra money, if it was over and above the regular goal, it was big….hairy….audacious goal, and he said, “If you guys hit this, I will take the entire company to Las Vegas.” Because he knew if they increased the revenue that much, the profits would go up enough to pay for the trip and then some. And he was legendary with his employees. Just things like that that are special.   Me: I think one of the things I took away from what you said just now that it's not the big things, it's like always the little things, the minor details, and they go very far away with another human being, because it shows them that you value them, you appreciate them, and they're just not there to milk, to get more money, money, money. But you value them as a person, and you recognize the fact that your success is just as important as their success.   Bob agreed, that's exactly right. That's what it takes to build a great company, is the culture you create. You want people waiting in line to go to work for you.   Me: I know right, that's awesome.   App, Website or Tool that Bob Absolutely Can't Live Without in His Business When asked about an online resource that he cannot live without, Bob shared that he hates it, but he can't live without it, it's called email. Buries him, but it's the communication is so fast, and we can send documents back and forth, and he doesn't think anybody could live without email now. We all curse it, but it's there.    Me: Agreed, because in the absence of email, we have to go back to posting a letter to your customer or to your friend or family member, and we all know the Postal Service takes forever for you to get that response. So, yeah, email is amazing.   Bob shared that he remembers those days and they'd send off a contract and wait and wait and wait to get it back, just because of the mail, or an invoice. It just was crazy. And then came fax machines, and they were huge. He bought one once and his accountant, and said, “Why do you want that thing? Nobody else has them.” And he said they will, even though they will. And that became huge, and then email took over for that.   Books that Have Had the Biggest Impact on Bob When asked about books that have had a great impact, Bob shared that Good to Great: Why Some Companies Make the Leap…And Others Don't was a book that had an effect on him. Blue Ocean Strategy: How to Create Uncontested Market Space and Make Competition Irrelevant is another one. Dale Carnegie, How to Win Friends and Influence People.   Me: I'm actually looking at the book right now. It's sitting right in front of me.   Bob shared that that's one of the major ones. And another one he wrote was How to Stop Worrying and Start Living. So, there's several.    What Bob is Really Excited About Now! When asked about something that he's really excited about, Bob shared that he's always excited about cheering, he sees so much, and he loves what he does. As far as he's not in any training right now, but Vistage offers trainings all the time, and he also does stuff outside of Vistage. But right now, he's getting ready to go on a holiday in a sprinter van, it's an RV, and that's kind of got his attention. Plus, he's got two Vistage meetings next week.   Me: So, those are your things that you're working on that you're really excited about. Fantastic.   Where can listeners find Bob online? LinkedIn - Bob Carrothers Website – www.vistage.com   Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Bob Uses When asked about quotes that he tends to revert to, Bob shared he does, he's a big fan of Albert Einstein, and he had a quote that was, “The same level of thinking that caused a problem is not going to fix the problem.” That's not exact, but that's what it means. And that's so true. Another one is, “Everybody's a genius. But if you want to teach a fish to fly, they're going to fail and feel they're a loser from then on.” And some people just can't get it. And sometimes when things go wrong, you got to look at the people involved, or the thinking involved and reapproach it with a different level.   Me: Okay, so that second quote is more to say, maybe you need to take a few steps backward just to move forward, just to reevaluate and do it again.   Bob agreed. Reevaluate if it's an employee and they just can't get it. Maybe they're just not set up for it, and it's better to find another position for them, or another area of responsibility, or perhaps they're just not right for your company, like you got to have the right people on the bus as Jim Collins say.    Me: True. If you have the wrong people on the bus, it makes the journey that much harder.   Bob agreed, they got to be in the right seats.   Me: Well, thank you so much Bob for jumping on our podcast today and sharing all of these awesome insights as it relates to Vistage and your journey and just what are some of the key things that makes a leader successful and makes an organization successful as they navigate their customer experience through the journey of their customers lifetime. So, I think your conversation today was extremely insightful, and I just wanted to extend our deepest gratitude to you for taking time to share with us today.   Bob shared that he's really enjoyed this. Yanique ask great questions and make him think so, thank you.   Please connect with us on Twitter @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest  Links • Good to Great: Why Some Companies Make the Leap…And Others Don't by Jim Collins • Blue Ocean Strategy: How to Create Uncontested Market Space and Make Competition Irrelevant by W. Chan Kim •    How to Win Friends & Influence People by Dale Carnegie •    How to Stop Worrying and Start Living by Dale Carnegie   The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners  Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience.” The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty. This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately! This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others. Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!

Barbara Wardell and Ernesto Cullari run an agency that focuses on geofencing. This embraces a growth hacker mindset that strategically focuses on identifying and amplifying their clients' strengths while pinpointing weaknesses in the competition, utilizing GPS location data. This approach results in a significant and measurable impact on foot traffic and online engagement, making their efforts truly game changing and successful.  Questions · Now, we always like to ask our guests in their own words, if you could share a little bit about your journeys, how you got from where you were to where you are today. · Can you share with our listeners in the most simplest layman terms, what exactly is geofencing? · Organizations heavily invest in marketing, but then when the person comes to the organization to do business, case in point, let's say you visited Starbucks, and you had to wait for 20 minutes just to get a cup of coffee. You're extremely frustrated, because it's just a small item, you should be in and out in the shortest possible time. How do you tackle that with your clients? Is that something that you deal with as well? · Do you find that the behavior based on the geographic location or even the culture of the country, impacts how geofencing works? · Now we'd also like to hear from both of you, what's the one online resource, tool, website or application that you absolutely cannot live without in your business? · Can you also share with me maybe one or two books that you've read? It could be a book that you read recently, or even one that you read a very long time ago, but it has had a great impact on you, whether personally or professionally. · Now, can you also share with our listeners, what's the one thing that's going on in your lives right now that you are really excited about, either something you're working on to develop yourself or your people. · Where can listeners find you online? · Now, we always like to wrap our episodes up by asking our guests, do you have a quote or a saying that during times of adversity or challenge, you'll tend to revert to this quote if for any reason you get derailed or you get off track, the quote kind of helps to get you back on track. Do you have one of those? Highlights Barbara and Ernesto's Journey Me: Now, we always like to ask our guests in their own words, if you could share a little bit about your journeys, how you got from where you were to where you are today?    Barbara Wardell: Barbara shared that she and Ernesto met during Covid at a Halloween party, believe it or not, before they started their company together, they became friends. And her journey is she's a mom of two, and she was in the medical industry, specialty medicines for a long time, and then Covid hit, and then she and Ernesto met at a Halloween party, became friends, and then they started Cullari & Wardell, a geofencing ad agency, and a little over two years, they've been killing it, so growing small businesses. So, they're really lucky to do that.  Ernesto Cullari: Ernesto stated that as Barbara said, they met during Covid, they both have a medical background. For years, he was a Surgical OR Med Rep, so he would be working in the operating room with physicians utilizing novel technology to do abdominal body wall repair, post breast reconstruction after cancer and things like that. During the day, he moonlit as a professional songwriter, so he had songs on Disney radio, country radio, that he wrote for other artists. And along that journey, he became a songwriter. So, the mystery during his creative time was always wondering how to sort of growth hack, how to break an artist out into the mainstream. And they had a lot of success doing that. Paulie Litt from the show Hope & Faith, ended up having a number one song on Disney radio, which they wrote for him, and then had a top 100 song, and then top 15 country music song that he wrote for an artist named Bailey Grey.  And so, it does lead them up to Covid, because when Covid struck, part of their content, so he got more into advertising and marketing, and a lot of their clients just dropped off. And the problem that needed to be solved was how do you rebuild foot traffic, particularly in a market where the government won't let you open, when they do let you open, people are going to be slow to come back to retail. So, what do we do? So, putting that growth hacker hat back on to when he was a songwriter, he looked into geofencing, and that was about 4 years ago, and then 2 years into his journey of mastering, doing his 10,000 hours of studying geofencing technology, he and Barbara met, and it became a passion of theirs, and throughout their conversation, to help small businesses, to help them bring people back in.  People like the retail experience, people like the in-person experience, and geofencing is a powerful tool that uses satellite technology to draw virtual fences around locations of interest. It could be your competitors, and they use that to capture their devices to send ads to their devices when they come into one of their locations after seeing one of your ads, the satellite pings them and alerts them that a new GPS verified visit has taken place. And he and Barbara do about 5000 satellite verified visits in the US, Canada and Australia every month.    What is Geofencing? Me: Now, for those of our listeners that are tapping into this episode when it's broadcasted and they're getting a chance to listen into this awesome content, can you share with them in the most simplest layman terms, what exactly is geofencing?   Ernesto Cullari: stated that in the simplest terms, it is a form of advertising that uses your phone and when you walk into a location that they've identified with a satellite, he's drinking a cup of coffee at a coffee shop that he bought it at. And then in his surrounding areas, there's about 7 other coffee shops. Well, if he wants to show why he's better, he would use geofencing to draw a virtual fence around his competition. Once someone walks into a competing coffee shop with their mobile device, he can then capture their device and then send ads to their device. And the wonderful part is, is when after seeing his ad, come back to his coffee shop, he could say, “Wow, because of my ads, because I used geofencing to target their devices in my competition stores, I've therefore just measured 50 visits this month.”  So, it's critical because none of us are made of money, and advertising dollars for the small business is scarce, so we want to use our money wisely. And big companies like Chipotle, Chipotle, by the way, the CEO of Chipotle just got hired at Starbucks.   Me: I saw that yesterday.   Chipotle during Covid, utilized, he thinks it was one of their vice presidents came up with this idea, “Hey, let's use geofencing. I heard it works.” Well, during Covid, Chipotle was able to triple their curb side pickup from using geofencing. They saw where other people were picking up food, and then they decided to target those locations and let them know that, “Hey, Chipotle has curb side pickup.” So, Chipotle did so well that Starbucks needs to learn from them. As you know, a lot of Starbucks locations have been closing throughout the country, and they picked off talent from Chipotle, and he has no doubt that that talented team is going to be helping Starbucks turn around, but geofencing is part of that story.   Me: So, now our listeners have a good idea of what geofencing is and also what your organization does.   How Does Using GeoFencing as a Marketing/Advertising Tool Affect CX? Me: Now let's tie all of that back into the customer experience, right? Because we're all about navigating the customer's experience. So, you have marketed and advertised to the organizations to say, hey, you can come to this organization based on the geofencing marketing initiatives that you've put in place. Now, can you share with me how it is that the customer experience is addressed in this for example, like with your clients, because I find, for example, people spend a lot of money on marketing and advertising, not sure what the cost point is for geofencing compared to traditional media like the radio or newspaper, if it's significantly cheaper. But I find that a lot of times, organizations heavily invest in marketing, but then when the person comes to the organization to do business, case in point, let's say you visited Starbucks, and you had to wait for 20 minutes just to get a cup of coffee. You're extremely frustrated, because it's just a small item, you should be in and out in the shortest possible time. How do you tackle that with your clients? Is that something that you deal with as well?  Barbara Wardell: shared that for their end, it's the advertising end, they don't deal with the customers per se. The places that people go with their smartphones is indicative highly of the products that they buy. So, when they go into a geofence, what they see is they're open on an app, because they're on apps or on the wide-open web, they're not on Facebook, Instagram, Google. So, when they actually go into that geofence and they're on an app, they will see an ad for one of their customers, and from that, if they toggle it or click it, they will see a map how to get there. Once they go into that store, whether it's that day or 90 days later, the satellite will ping them. So, that part is their end. What they go into the store is on the customer itself of how they treat their customer. And Ernesto has some insight on that as well.  Ernesto Cullari: shared that when they do a consultation with a client, one of the first things they ask, they're one of the largest advertisers for laundromats in the world, so small business owners have discovered that owning a laundromat is a very good business, you're serving your community, you're providing a great service, but it's very important to set up realistic expectations. So, he and Barbara, when they consult a company, they want to find out even,  “What kind of doors you have?” “Do you have doors that are particularly when moms and dads are coming in with their kids, are the doors automatic? Are they wide doors?” “Are you operating new machines?”  Because they want to set up realistic expectations for the end consumer. So, when they work with one of their clients, they do ask them how their operations run. They've been very fortunate to attract top operators in communities across the US, but when it comes to restaurants and spirits companies and hotels and HVAC and doctors and things like that, service providers, they do want to make sure that the product that they say they're offering is the end user experience that the customer has. But as Barbara said, it's not their responsibility to make sure they do operations well, but they advise them, “Hey, get your operations down, and let's make sure the promise that we give is matched with the in-store experience.” Barbara Wardell: shared that that's something they think that is very important. So, that's why they do a lot of research before they take on a client. They ask them a lot of questions to make sure that they're doing what they're promising in their ads, because you don't want that customer to come in and say, “Okay, this is not what the promise was, right?” Then they won't come back.  Ernesto Cullari: shared that they're concerned about their numbers; in order to do well for you, they need to be telling the truth. There needs to be truth in advertising, and they don't want their numbers as a company to be impacted because they're committed to delivering as much as 5000 visits a month, and if their clients are not on their end, providing the proper customer experience, it does impact him and Barbara. So, they're very competitive, they want to make sure they uphold the things that they say they're going to do, and they tend to advise their clients 100% of the time to do the same to make sure they're matching the experience with their ad promise.   The Impact of Geofencing Me: So, in the feedback that you just provided, it got me thinking to the fact that, do you find geofencing it's most effective or impactful based on your geographical location. So, is it that you primarily operate in the United States, in North America? And do you find that geofencing would be different based on, let's say, a customer who is in Nigeria, in Africa, or a customer who is in Kingston, Jamaica, in the Caribbean? Do you find that the behaviour based on the geographic location or even the culture of the country, impacts how geofencing works? Is that data that you're able to provide as well to the clients?   Barbara Wardell: Yes. So, they're right now in Australia, Canada and the United States, and there is a culture difference when you advertise in a different country, they found that a lot has to do, they do a lot of studies before they break into another country, to make sure that they understand the behaviours and kind of they do a listening device that kind of listens to the area to see, because they track mobile foot traffic, right? So, that's one of the things that they do to work on their geofencing, so they already know when they go into that area, what the culture is like, and also talking to the customer as well to understand the area. And also, they do a listening device or a foot traffic study to understand the area that they're targeting.  Ernesto Cullari: Agreed, Barbara said it perfectly. They do set up listening campaigns, and it's basically a beacon to measure, he'll give you an example, Australia, for listeners that haven't been there, he and Barbara have not been there, but when they look at it via satellite, you have these communities that are densely populated, and then you have hundreds of 1000s of acres of wide open space. So, they really need to do due diligence and measure the amount of devices that are available in an area before they market to them. So now, they haven't tested yet whether this works in Africa or South Africa, but right now, they're for sure it works all throughout Asia and it's a matter of so say, Nigeria, for example, they would have to set up a listening campaign, they would have to measure the amount of devices that are available and then determine what kind of devices are they. Are they iPhones, Samsungs and Androids, or are they flip phones and some other mixture of devices and that will impact what kind of the ads they use.   Me: All right. So, that definitely answers my question, and I think it will help to guide the listeners as well in terms of if they're small business owners, or even working in organizations with small business owners that they can definitely identify if this is something that would benefit them and benefit creating more traffic for their organization, generating more customers and hopefully impacting their customer experience.   App, Website or Tool that Barbara and Ernesto Absolutely Can't Live Without in Their Business Barbara Wardell: When asked about online resource that they cannot live without in their business, Barbara stated that she thinks it's the foot traffic study only because it gives them a lot of information before they even launch a campaign for any one of their customers. It is something that they can see a half hour before and a half hour after the customers, where they go from that that area, or that specific customer, and also for a year, they can go back for a year to look at that traffic and see where those customers go. Ernesto Cullari: He thinks for himself, he has his hand in a lot of working on the creatives for clients. And even though there are wonderful platforms out there, like the whole Adobe Suite, which includes Premier, Photoshop, Lightroom and all that, and Adobe Illustrator, and he thinks they're all great. But he likes the prosumer which are applications that anybody off the street could use. So, if you're a small business owner or even a big business owner, and you want an application where you don't need to go to your team or your assistant, you want to be able to do something yourself, Canva is a wonderful platform that he has actually, when he works in Canva after working in something like Adobe, his turnaround time sometimes in Canva is so much quicker because it's made for dummies. Canva is made for dummies. So, he loves Canva, and also, they manage designers, and those designers, they work in Creatopy, again, so that's a prosumer, anybody off the street could use that website, it makes great looking html5 ads. And again, as someone who manages creatives, if he doesn't like something, can go into Creatopy, and he could fix it himself. So, he thinks no matter where you are in your journey as a business owner, whether you manage a fortune 100 company and you have to deal with your admin, your marketing men and women, or you own a small business and you have to do it yourself, or you're hiring an agency like them, Canva and Creatopy, in addition to the Adobe Creative Suite, are just wonderful platforms.   Books that Have Had the Biggest Impact on Barbara and Ernesto Ernesto Cullari: When asked about books that have had an impact, Ernesto shared that he read Confessions of an Advertising Man by Ogilvy, which he thinks is one of the greatest books on advertising you can read. But also, it's not just advertising, it's in general, if you're someone who needs to communicate to the masses or to discrete audiences, small audiences, learning the art of communication is important, and he thinks Confessions of an Advertising Man, he have found invaluable.  In addition to Sun Tzu's Art of War, sometimes you have to crush your competition, and you have to be able to have the stomach for it, and strategy is necessary. And Sun Tzu's The Art of War he would also say. And then the Bible.  Barbara Wardell: She has to say one of her favorite is Wabi Sabi Love, it's about being in the present and appreciating everything that's in your life at that moment, because it could be gone tomorrow, and she's had that experience, she's read a ton of marketing books, but that's one that's close to her heart.  Ernesto Cullari: He shared that Yanique asked earlier about cost effectiveness, and the cost per acquisition and things like that. How does this compare to other forms of advertising? So, he's sure a lot of listeners out there have for various reasons, could be for charity, could be for advertising, could be for marketing. They've engaged in Facebook, Google advertising to promote an event or product. So, he can tell you, doing the engagement using Facebook and then starting with other forms of advertising since then, and he can tell you that geofencing, pound per pound is the Mike Tyson, is the absolute Mike Tyson of advertising. Everyone else is a lightweight. There is no censorship.  So, if you run political ads, you will face no censorship of any sort on the geofencing side, unlike Facebook and Google, who will silence you if they don't agree with your viewpoints. And in terms of reach and measurement, dollar for dollar, there's just nothing as effective as geofencing.  So, on a $500, he doesn't recommend only spending this, but on a $500 budget per month, you can end up with 20 people coming through your door. I do recommend for five-mile radius that you spend at least $1,000 on your market, that way, if you know the cost per customer, meaning how much money your average customer spends, you have the opportunity to 10 to 30x your return on investment depending on what the value of a new customer is for you.  In some of their verticals that they work with, the value of a new customer is $40,000 so on the $1,000 ad spend, if you gain one new client a month, that's a quite impressive return on investment. For other clients they have in the laundry industry, some of their clients are worth 1200 to 2500 a year. So, if they send the 30, 40, 50 customers a month, then that again, is quite a handsome return on investment, agreed.    What Barbara and Ernesto is Really Excited About Now! Barbara Wardell: When asked about something that they are really excited about, Barbara shared that they just launched which they're really excited about, their dashboard for their clients so that they can go in and see the reporting instead of them emailing them their reports, so now that they can go into the system and actually on their time and actually look at and see their results of their campaign.  Ernesto Cullari: He shared that he's excited about he and Barbara just got finished running a fundraiser from his mother's orphanage in the Philippines. She operates what's called Street Kids Philippine Missions, and she's been there for 15 years with her husband, Matt, and they have rescued kids that were in danger of being sex trafficked, that were eating out of garbage cans, that were basically destitute. And it's their 15th year, they just successfully raised $20,000 and that was simply an online campaign where they used their podcasting studio to talk about what his mom does, and Matt does there. And they're pretty proud of being able to use their resources to help kids that face sex trafficking that would otherwise be destitute. And he would say he's most happy and proud about that development.   Where can listeners find you online? Website – www.cullarimedia.com   Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Barbara and Ernesto Uses Ernesto Cullari: When asked about a quote to they tend to revert to, Ernesto shared from The Art of War, “He whose forces are of one mind will be victorious.”  Barabra Wardell: She shared that mainly, she always tells herself to be in the present moment and not get sidetracked by other things that are going on. But she can't think of a quote right now.   Me: Thank you so much for taking time out of your very busy schedules and hopping on our podcast and sharing all of these great insights as it relates to geofencing and the impact that it can have on 10x'ing your business, getting new clients, the advantage that it has over traditional media, advertising and just the opportunity for you to understand your customer base a little bit more, get an idea of where they're coming from and why they're coming to you, so you can continue to build on that and even exceed their expectations. So, I think it was a great conversation, and I just wanted to extend my deepest gratitude to you both.    Please connect with us on Twitter @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest   Links •    Confessions of an Advertising Man by Dave Ogilvy •    The Art of War by Sun Tzu   The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners  Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience.” The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty. This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately! This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others. Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!

Gm! In this episode, Ben Mills, the Co-founder of Meso, joined us to discuss peer-to-peer payments! We looked back on the early days of P2P payment apps, how crypto can improve upon these web2 systems, and building trust with users. Additionally, we discussed his journey from Venmo to Solana, and how Venmo was able to stand out amongst its peers. Finally, we talked about the unique challenges crypto founders face, and how mainstream adoption is a meme. Enjoy! -- Follow Ben: https://x.com/benemills Follow Jack: https://x.com/whosknave Follow Lightspeed: https://twitter.com/Lightspeedpodhq Subscribe to the Lightspeed Newsletter: https://blockworks.co/newsletter/lightspeed -- Access is the new way to support and consume content from your favorite creators. Over 140 subscriptions to select from, spanning from large crypto media to a long tail of talented independent researchers and artists. No paying for subscriptions. Simply stake, consume, and get rewarded. Claim your free subscription through this link. But be quick there is a limited number available! https://tiplink.io/f/2195-aOAlZYc4ARht#Lhr8-0rBdVrxL94ZjOHwVtwxI2OSal2xw6Sz51lYuzU – Step into MyPrize—the online multiplayer crypto casino that lets you battle your friends and play alongside creators. On MyPrize, you're invited to get rowdy and share every victory and defeat with your pals. Because we know the only thing more fun than beating the house is beating your friends. Get started now with a 150% deposit or purchase bonus: https://myprize.com/invite/Lightspeed -- Subscribe on YouTube: https://bit.ly/43o3Syk Subscribe on Apple: https://apple.co/3OhiXgV Subscribe on Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3OkF7PD Get top market insights and the latest in crypto news. Subscribe to Blockworks Daily Newsletter: https://blockworks.co/newsletter/ -- 00:00: Introduction 02:07: What's Interesting in Crypto Today? 05:35: Optimism Around Crypto Apps and Infrastructure 11:26: The Early Days of Payments Apps 17:55: How Can Crypto Improve P2P Payments? 21:47: Access Protocol Ad 22:28: MyPrize Ad 22:59: What Did Venmo Do Differently? 32:07: Making the Leap From Venmo to Solana 38:25: Crypto's Instant Payments Breakthrough 45:48: The Unique Challenges of Building in Crypto 56:04: Mainstream Adoption is a Meme -- Disclaimers: Lightspeed was kickstarted by a grant from the Solana Foundation. Nothing said on Lightspeed is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Mert, Jack, and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.

Dr. Eric Recker is a dentist, husband, father, keynote speaker, Elite Success Coach, author, pilot, mountain climber and recovering triathlete. In his second half of life, he is committed to helping people shorten the distance to becoming their best version and learning to #WINtheNOW.  Questions ·      We'd love for you to share in your own words a little bit about how you got from where you were to where you are today. ·      Could you share maybe two or three overarching themes that you believe have been the core values that have driven you to get to where you are today, and if other people were to embrace or embody those same core values, you believe they would achieve the same success. ·      What would you say are some of the success tools that have made both businesses thrive in a positive way, if you were to look at them and see if there are any overlapping behaviors or competencies that help to strengthen the customer experience in both areas. ·   Could you also share with us what's the one online resource, tool, website or application that you absolutely can't live without in your business? ·      Now, could you also share with our listeners, Eric, maybe one or two books that have had a great impact on you. It could be a book that you read a very long time ago, or even one that you've read recently, but it has impacted you, both professionally and even personally. ·      Can you also share with us what's the one thing that's going on in your life right now that you are really excited about, either something you're working on to develop yourself or your people. ·      Where can listeners find you online? ·      Now, before we wrap our episodes up, we always like to ask our guests, do you have a quote or a saying that during times of adversity or challenge, you'll tend to revert to this quote if for any reason you get derailed or you get off course, the quote kind of helps to get you back on track. Do you have one of those? Highlights Eric's Journey  Me: Eric, we always like to give our guests an opportunity to share in their own words a little bit about their own journey. So, your bio basically gave us a very short summary of all the wonderful things that you have and are still doing, but we'd love for you to share in your own words a little bit about how you got from where you were to where you are today.   Eric shared that he really could give a short version of that, and it would take about 4 hours, but he'll try to really crunch it down together and say that he was bullied on the playground when he was growing up. He grew up in a small town in Iowa in the early 80s, and recess kickball was life, and he was told that he couldn't play because he wasn't good enough, and so unfortunately, that you are not good enough became a soundtrack for him, and he told himself on the sideline of that recess kickball field that he was going to be so good at everything he ever did that no one would ever not pick him. Well, fast forward into his professional career as a dentist, he truly believed that he wasn't good enough, so he overshot on everything, overcompensated on everything, always kept adding more and more and more because he was trying to prove to other people that he was good enough. That led to three significant rounds of burnout, including chest pain, heart palpitations, panic attacks, all of that to the point that he got very close to selling his dental practice and walking away.  When that all fell through, he needed to step back and decide what he really wanted to do with this life, and he knew that he had a powerful story. He'd been through a lot, and he wanted to be able to help other people on their journey.  So, what he does now is he has sold half of his dental practice to a partner. He sees patients three days a week, and the other days he speak and coach and write books and do content and all of those kinds of things, trying to help other people on their journey, so that they don't have to go as far down the burnout trail as he went.   Me: That is awesome. What a wonderful story.   Core Values for Success - Themes that Drive Achievement and Fulfillment Me: So, Eric, you speak a lot about burnout and mindset and just handling the different stresses of life, can you share with our listeners on your own personal journey, when you got to that point, when you realized that you needed to make a change? If you could share maybe two or three overarching themes that you believe have been the core values that have driven you to get to where you are today, and if other people were to embrace or embody those same core values, you believe they would achieve the same success.   Eric shared that first of all, where it all went wrong each time that he went through that terrible season of burnout, he noticed the same equation now that he looks back on it, kind of doing a forensic examination of it was over committed. He had too much on his plate, as a lot of us do, but even more importantly, he wasn't taking care of himself, he just kept going. He just kept adding more and more, and that's where the problem was.  So, one of the big core values that he has is taking care of himself. So, we have to be a little bit selfish so that we can be selfless. If we don't have anything to give, we won't be able to give anything to our people. We won't be able to have an impact on those that we are around, and we will definitely get burned out.  Another huge core value for him is relationships. He's a highly relational person, and it's extremely important to him that he has some good quality relationships in his life, and it's important for all of us. So, he has a mentor that he meets with, he has a coach that he works with, and he has 4 people that he would consider, 2:00 am friends, people that he could call in the middle of the night if his world fell apart. So, relationships and self-care would be two of the big things that he thinks we really need to be careful and make sure we embrace those.   Me: Absolutely love those two themes that you've shared with us.   Success Tools for Thriving Businesses - Overlapping Behaviors and Competencies that Enhance Customer Experience Me: Now, I love the fact that one of your themes was relationships, and a big part of customer experience, as this podcast is focused on navigating the customer experience is building strong relationships. All organizations aim to have customers for life, and a big part of that is building strong relationships with those customers, whether it be a B2B or a B2C. Since you pretty much managing two businesses, because you mentioned that you coach and you write books and you do speeches and stuff for organizations and people, and then you also have your practice where you're in office three days per week. What would you say are some of the success tools that have made both businesses thrive in a positive way, if you were to look at them and see if there are any overlapping behaviours or competencies that help to strengthen the customer experience in both areas.   Eric shared that one thing that he teaches his team is to be aware of the rest of the story, it's a huge thing for him. People are complicated, so, in his dental practice, people will come in and they'll maybe see them for an hour of their life, and they might be grumpy when they come in, they might be scared, they might be, however they present themselves to them is just a snapshot of how their life is going. They may not be taking very good care of themselves, they may be in a bad place, they may have gotten a diagnosis, they may have a family member that's really struggling, they may have any number of things that's going on. They may be crazy burned out, and they get to see a little snapshot of them.  So, when somebody comes in, they don't seem like themselves, or if they've just met them, and they're kind of off putting to them at the beginning, just understand that they're seeing a snapshot of a bigger picture of someone's life. And so, he thinks it's always important that they think about that, they don't always get the chance to know the whole person, but especially in someone that you've been in relationship with for a while, if they seem off, then there's something more going on, and it might be worth exploring that.   Me: So, you're lying in the dentist chair, right? And what would you call the person that's serving the client, a dental assistant? And the dental assistant picks up that the patient is agitated, walk us through that. What would you want he or she to do to kind of have the patient relax, maybe build some conversation. Do you just have casual talk? Do you pick a topic, maybe about the weather? Do you think about something that's maybe current affairs, like Donald Trump?  Eric shared that he definitely stays away from politics. Stay away from politics and hot button news things, that's for sure. People get pretty fired up about that. But exactly that scenario that you had. The great thing about his practice is a lot of the patients that he sees, he's been seeing for 20 years. And so, when they come in, if something doesn't seem right, then they'll ask them,  “Hey, is everything going okay today?”  “Well, I'm just really nervous about this procedure.”  “Okay, well, tell me more about that.”  And a lot of times, really all someone needs to do is voice what they're feeling or talk about the procedure before they do it, and then it becomes a lot easier. And if it doesn't, if they're still amped up, they say things like, “Hey, the good news is this is all the longer this procedure is going to be. So, in half the time it takes to watch a movie, you're going to be on your way.”  So, they try to break it into more manageable chunks if people are apprehensive, and sometimes they have to take a little break and just let everybody sit up and breathe. And then they get back into it. But they really try to meet the patient right where they are and help them work through the situation, because it doesn't do any good if they're escalated, and Eric's team is escalated, then they're going to have a hard time getting through the procedure.   App, Website or Tool that Eric Absolutely Can't Live Without in His Business When asked about on online resource that he can't live without in his business, Eric shared that for him, he would just say that it's his own personal website, it's hugely important whenever he gets asked, “So, hey, where do we find you? How can we get in touch with you. How can we learn more about you?” He's very proud of his website, he had a great web designer, but through there, everything flows to his social media, to his blog, to his books, to the different opportunities that he has, some free online resources. It's something that he's very thankful that he spent some money on, because it's the way that a lot of people end up finding him.   Me: Perfect. And we will ask you the question for where our listeners can find you online, which I'm sure your website will be one of those resources later on in the episode.   Books that Have Had the Biggest Impact on Eric When asked about books that have had a great impact, Eric shared that two of them definitely come to mind. One is going to be, and a lot of people have probably heard of this one is Atomic Habits: An Easy & Proven Way to Build Good Habits & Break Bad Ones by James Clear, just an incredible resource. We are the product of our habits and our routines. It is worth taking time to get good habits and routines in our lives, because everything else flows from those patterns that are in our life. So, that's a huge one.  Another one that many people probably have not heard of as much is called In a Pit with a Lion on a Snowy Day: How to Survive and Thrive When Opportunity Roars and that's by one of his favorite authors, Mark Batterson, and it describes what we do when adversity hits in our lives, because it's not a question of if, it's a question of when things are going to happen to us, and how do we react to those things.   What Eric is Really Excited About Now! When asked about something that he's excited about, Eric stated that he mentioned the whole not good enough, and the paradigm that that presented him with. So, he used to do a lot of triathlons, mountain climbing, stuff like that, he went all the way through the Iron Man distance. He's climbed Mount Kilimanjaro, all of that was pretty much done on a faulty operating system that he had in his mind that he wasn't good enough and he needed to prove himself to people.   So, it's really been about 7 years since he's done any kind of an endurance race or anything like that. He's climbed some smaller mountains and done some stuff like that. But there's an event that he's going to be doing the second week of August, and it's going to be at Snow Basin Resort in Utah, and it's called 29029, which is the vertical height of Mount Everest above sea level. So, the goal is, in 36 hours, he has to hike 29,000 vertical feet.   Me: Wow.   Eric shared that that's usually the first word that people say. So, what he will do is, he'll hike up this mountain, and each time he goes up, he will gain 2300 feet. So, he will hike the same mountain 13 times. So, hike up the mountain, and he will ride the gondola back down. And there's going to be 250 to 300 of them he believes that will be there doing this. And his goal for this is to one, he wanted to train for an event again, he really wanted to be focused and intentional about how he trained for it.  But the other thing that he wants to do is he wants to learn about mindset while he's doing it. He wants to learn what happens in his mind when he does a repetitive task for 36 hours. He wants to learn where does his mind goes on hikes number 7, 8 and 9, when he can't see the beginning of the hike and he can't see the end, and he's really in the grind, because he thinks a lot of this will translate into our lives and what we have going on personally. So, he hopes this will be something that he'll be able to give some talks and workshops about in the future. And so, just want to see at 47 years old, just want to see what his body's got in it, what his abilities are.   Me: That's amazing, Eric, wow. I'm going to have to follow you. Are you going to be posting this on your social media?    Eric confirmed, absolutely.    Me: This is fantastic. I would definitely follow you from a personal capacity, just to see, as you mentioned, how do you endure? What are your thoughts? Is it that you feel overcome? Does it impact you emotionally? Like there's so many questions running through my mind right now just listening to you.   Eric stated that he's excited. There's one time he knows as he's hiking up that for that whole, he expects it to take about an hour and 15 minutes, probably to hike each time, and at least one of those times he's just going to be completely quiet and he's just going to observe the world around me. His son has made him a couple playlists, so he'll listen to some music that he selected for him. One of the times, he's just going to pray for his family the entire time that he hikes up. So, he has a few of those things. And then, other than that, just going to see what happens. So, he's super excited about it.   Me: And I guess it's a time also for you to kind of be one with nature and God, because you don't have much distraction, and hopefully you have no injuries, I pray in the name of Jesus that you come out of this injury free. So, you could really meditate, talk to God, as you mentioned, pray for your family and that's something that we don't get to do every day, have moments of silence, because we're just always so busy doing busy work.   Eric agreed that Yanique is so correct. He thinks if people really want their life to change, start with 5 minutes of silence each day, “Well, Eric, why only 5 minutes?” because it's not easy and we're not used to it. Start with 5 minutes of silence and breathing each day and see what that does for you, it's so important, you know this.   Where can listeners find Eric online? Website – www.ericrecker.com    Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Eric Uses When asked about a quote or saying that he tends to revert to, Eric shared that his quote is a Bible verse, and it is Proverbs 3:5-6, “Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will keep your path straight.” God has been the constant for his journey all the way through, He's been there in the good times and bad times, in the other times, and he's trying his best to trust that He always knows what the next step is.   Me: I love that. Absolutely love that. Thank you so much for sharing. Eric.   Well, Eric, you have definitely practiced what you preach in this entire interaction that I've had with you. Thank you so very much for being a guest on our podcast, I believe that our listeners would have gained, when the episode is released, will gain a great amount of knowledge, expertise, advice, motivation. I got that from our conversation, and I can tell that you're not just speaking because it's something to do, but it's coming from your heart, and that touches people way more. I mean, people can tell if you're being authentic and genuine, if it's really coming from a place of authenticity, and I feel that in the conversation that I had with you today. So, I just want to express my deepest gratitude to you. Wish you all the best on your hike, I'm going to be there following and cheering you on and just want to say thank you again.   Please connect with us on Twitter @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest   Links •     Atomic Habits: An Easy & Proven Way to Build Good Habits & Break Bad Ones by James Clear •     In a Pit with a Lion on a Snowy Day: How to Survive and Thrive When Opportunity Roars by Mark Batterson   Mastering Art of Service Excellence: Behavioural Tools and Competencies for CX Success Webinar – Tuesday, August 27, 2024 – 11:00 am (EST) Mastering Art of Service Excellence Webinar Details and Registration  

Layman Pascal joins me to discuss his new book, Gurdjieff for a Time Between Worlds. Who was G. I. Gurdjieff and why is he keenly relevant to our present metamodern moment? In what ways can we see in his work anticipations of contemporary spiritual modalities, such as sincere irony, integration of pluralities, immanent transcendence, and the mythopoeic construction of new imaginal narratives gesturing beyond modernity? With classic flare and verbal acuity, Layman unpacks his "hyperpersonal essays for the grandfather of metamodern spirituality." 0:00 Introduction 1:38 Who was G. I. Gurdjieff? 5:21 Gurdjieff and Metamodernity 9:29 "The Sly Man": Serious Play, Sincere Irony, Crazy Wisdom 20:04 Integrating Pluralities 31:04 Gurdjieff the Shamanoid 36:51 Real vs. Imaginal Mythos 51:35 Eso-, Meso-, Exo-teric 56:31 Pascal's Imaginal Gurdjieff? 1:05:25 Transcendent Immanence Get the book here: https://www.skymeadowinstitute.org/press

Daniel Ruby is a VP of Marketing at Nobl9. Ruby is a dynamic marketing executive with a focus on B2B marketing, and has significant experience building teams and driving successful, data-driven programs for a range of startups and mid-sized organizations. As the Director of Online Marketing for Localytics, Ruby was the first marketing hire and scaled his team to a full-fledged marketing department with domain specialists focused on mobile apps.   Ruby also has a background in journalism and spent several years guest lecturing marketing courses at Bentley University, bringing this dynamic skill set to his current role at Nobl9. Ruby holds a BA in Broadcast Journalism from the University of Missouri-Columbia and an MBA in International Business from Brandeis University.  Questions ·      We always like to start off by asking our guests if they could share with us a little bit about their journey, how you got from where you were to where you are today. ·      Could you share with our listeners, what is Nobl9 and what exactly are you providing? What service are you providing? How are you adding value to your customers lives using this platform? ·      Could you give us an example, like a use case of an application, you can choose any industry, and kind of just give us an idea of what that looks like so the audience can get a more practical view. ·    Could distinguish or differentiate for our listeners, what's the difference between an SLO and an SLA? ·      Now, Daniel, could you share with us what's the one online resource, tool, website or app that you absolutely can't live without in your business? ·      Where can listeners find you online? ·    Before we wrap our episodes up, we always like to ask our guests, do you have a quote or saying that during times of adversity or challenge, you'll tend to revert to this quote if for any reason you get derailed or you get off track. Highlights Daniel's Journey Me: Now, Daniel, could you share with our listeners, we always like to start off by asking our guests if they could share with us a little bit about their journey, how you got from where you were to where you are today.   Daniel shared that he was a journalist for a while, and kind of realized that there was not much of a market for it, so he kind of went and got an MBA to get a job, and kind of fell backwards into marketing as it is. And over the years, he's been with more than 10, mostly 10 startups, driving marketing, driving the customer experience in terms of from the moment that they're introduced to them as a brand until the moment that they no longer want to be or need to be working with them.  He finds a lot of joy in trying to make that experience pleasant, for lack of a better term. He's self-taught with most of the marketing stuff that he does, and he's kind of over the course of the years he's become very arrogantly convinced about a few core tenets of really communicating to customers and communicating to potential customers that have served him well, and it kind of always comes back to giving value at every step of the journey.   About Nobl9 – Enhancing Software Reliability and Value for Your Business Me: Now, could you share with our listeners, what is Nobl9 and what exactly are you providing? What service are you providing? How are you adding value to your customers lives using this platform?   Daniel shared that Nobl9 is basically a platform for software reliability. So, if we think about how somebody engages with a digital product, or even an in-person product with a digital back end to it. They are the premier, and kind of really only well-established provider of what's called Service Level Objectives, or SLOs. And an SLO was basically taking all of the different data points that make up your product, be it from the software, from the infrastructure, from third party microservices, etc, etc, etc, and rolls it up and actually gives a customer centric view into how reliable is their product.  And the reason that they do this is because most reliability, historically has been around is the product up. Is it up? Is it down? But anybody who's ever used a mobile app or a digital product, or even like a scan to pay service at a cafe knows that it's not just is it up? Is it working, or is everything within it doing what it's supposed to do?  So, he knows marketers like himself have taken the word holistic and kind of beaten it to death. But they do provide a holistic customer centric view. What is the customer experience like when actually using your product?   Me: So, Nobl9 is helping the application to maintain its reliability and have as little or no downtime as possible while the customer is interacting with it correct?   Daniel agreed, correct and kind of beyond downtime, is it, does it load fast enough? Do all of the different features load fast enough? Is there anything blocking my ability as a customer to buy from you or to use your service, or whatever you're trying to do? So, that's effectively what they do.   Practical Use Case – How Nobl9 Enhances Software Reliability Me: Okay, could you give us an example, like a use case of an application, you can choose any industry, and kind of just give us an idea of what that looks like so the audience can get a more practical view.    Daniel shared that it's a little engineering, and he's a marketer so he feels like he's not necessarily smart enough to completely understand the engineering speak of it. But if you think about like an Ecommerce app, if you open up the app and it loads in traditional reliability, that's reliable. But how many times have you gone into an app.   So, let's say your path in using E commerce app is, you're going to load the app, going to search for the product that he wants to buy, he's going to add it to his cart, he's going to go to his cart, he's going to check out. And maybe there's a login to My Account somewhere in the way.   With SLOs, what you can do is you can have all of the different steps of that path viewed as part of this overarching experience with the app. So, if you go to add something to your cart, the app sits there and hangs, that's not good reliability.   If you go to the cart itself, and for whatever reason you go to pay and like the app's connection to PayPal for whatever reason isn't working, and you get this message back that says, hey, we can't complete your payment, try another credit card or something, that's a bad experience. And that's the kind of reliability breakdown that leads people to quit using a product.  So, they make sure that strategically, all of the things that make up that path, you'll have a server dedicated to your shopping cart, you'll have a micro service that is dedicated to completing a purchase. They make sure that all of that you've got visibility into how the experience is for the end user, not just some third-party service that tries to connect and says yes, it can connect, no it can't connect. It's the whole experience of a digital product and they make it easy to understand.   Understanding the Difference – SLOs vs. SLAs Me: Now, at the beginning, you mentioned that it's based on your SLOs or Service Level Objectives. And just wanted to know if you could distinguish or differentiate for our listeners, what's the difference between an SLO and an SLA?   Daniel stated that that's a great question. So, an SLA is typically an agreement that you have with your users. You say you'll be able to use my product or my service xx percent of the time. And that's more of a contractual conversation than it is, a reliability conversation. When you start actually building it, in order to make sure that you're achieving this SLA that you've agreed upon with your clients, you've got to make sure that you know all of these different elements of their experience are operating at a certain efficiency. So, he hates to over complicate things, but there's actually a step in between called an SLI, a Service Level Indicator.  And so, a Service Level Indicator is things like, “I want my website to load in less than 100 milliseconds.” That's a Service Level Indicator. And the SLI is effectively a consistent goal, but then what you do with SLOs is you take that a little bit further.   So, an SLO operates within what's called an error budget, and you get a certain number of errors per month, per week, however, you want to set it up. And an error is when you don't meet that SLI and you say, “I know that it's maybe not impossible, but either improbable or just extremely expensive to make my website load in less than 100 seconds every single time.”  So, what an SLO does is it says, okay, I expect to meet this SLI however often I have decided is actually impactful on the customer experience, and whenever I don't, you get an error, and at that point, you're like, okay, it's an error, but an error is not an outage.  Daniel stated that he doesn't know if he's explaining this really well, but basically if you look at an SLO graph, it's going to be going down into the right and that is your budget. You say, okay, I expect this part of my service will meet my everyday life 95% of the time. And then you see the little graph going down, which, every time it doesn't meet that, it froze an error, and a certain amount of errors, it's just part of digital product development is understanding that you have to accept some errors. 100% perfection, it's impossible.    Me: Does not exist.   Daniel agreed, it does not exist. And a lot of people think about reliability in the number of nines, “My product is available 99.99% of the time.” That would be called four nines. Every nine that you add to that number basically increases your IT costs by an order of magnitude. So, at a certain point, you got to understand with SLOs are really the ideal way to do it.  At what point does this actually impact my customers? At what point does this actually impact my users?  It allows you to be strategic, and it allows you to see things when they begin. So, you mentioned outages earlier, an outage, your whole product crashes, it's unavailable to anybody. Those don't happen in a vacuum, there's something that causes them. And if you've got an SLO or a set of SLOs really, displaying the health of your service, the health of your product, you're suddenly going to see a bunch of errors coming in.  And you may or may not have enough forewarning to say, “Oh, crap, we're about to have an outage. Well, this server in my cloud provider is having massive latency issues, it looks like the server is about to crash, and that's going to take everything down.” You can have a little bit more of a runway to try and identify the actual issue behind a potential outage. And that's where you strategically define how much, how many errors can I tolerate in a month?  And then you basically have a real time view at all times.  Is my product, is my service running the way I expect it to, and the way I expect it to is from the perspective of the customer. Are my customers able to do what they expect to be able to do when they launch my app, or when they use my product.   App, Website or Tool that Daniel Absolutely Can't Live Without in His Business When asked about online resource that he can't live without in his business, Daniel shared that personally, it's HubSpot. He spent a few years as a HubSpot consultant, a third-party consultant for HubSpot integrations. And he could say a marketing automation platform, but he got a fanboy a little bit about HubSpot because it takes everything that used to be complicated about sales and marketing and customer support and customer experience, and kind of rolls it up. You've got your CRM, you've got your automation platform, you've got your email platform. He's actually taken to feeding his HubSpot metrics into Nobl9 SLO lately, because there's so much rich data within HubSpot.  And he's been running little things like, they'll change a script for their biz dev team. And then they'll just run a metric on calls connected to calls having a success, either a demo or a follow up request.  And HubSpot's got such great data, and then he can turn that into an SLO where he can say, “Okay, I expect the submission rate on my forms to be X percent. I expect the completion rate of our inside sales calls to be X percent over 80% of the time.”  And he can run that in an SLO, he can see that like if he changes something, but simple little things, if he changes the colour of the submit button on a form, he can see in real time what the view to submission rate is that's changing, and he can act on that. He can put a little note in the SLO with that time stamp and say, “Hey, I changed the color of this button” and see how that's making an impact. Or, if he looks in HubSpot and see, “Oh, crap, my submission rate has been terrible for the past 36 hours, what's happened?” And he can go into his SLO and say, “Oh, there's a little note here, I changed something in the UX. I changed something colour wise. I added a question, I removed a question.” And you see direct historical cause for that.  But going back to HubSpot in general, he really respects HubSpot's approach to they call it the flywheel, which is all about delighting customers and delighting prospects.  And they really do a great job of giving you the tools to actually give value in your marketing and sales and customer service processes. He doesn't know what he's do without HubSpot right now, he'd probably try and hack something together with Salesforce and Marketo and be more complicated and less easy to get adoption internally. But luckily, he doesn't need to.    Where can listeners find Daniel online? LinkedIn – Nobl9inc X – @nobl9inc   Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Daniel Uses When asked about a quote or saying that he tends to revert, Daniel shared, “Nothing is a failure unless you fail to learn from it.” He stated that he's got a great team that he works with at Nobl9. And some are early in their career, some have been working in marketing for several years, some have advanced degrees, some don't.  And so, he's been with Nobl9 since January, and one of the things that he wanted to do quickly was make sure that people were comfortable making mistakes and understanding that an action and its outcome is not the end of that process. If you don't learn from it, why it worked, why it didn't, then you've made a mistake. But failure is as important an element in driving success in any business scenario. So, he likes making sure that people know that, and he likes making sure that they feel comfortable, because without being comfortable with failure, how are you going to try anything revolutionary?   Me: True. Thank you so much for sharing, Daniel.   Now, we just like to thank you so much for hopping on this podcast and sharing all of the great insights about Nobl9, the wonderful work that your team is doing as it relates to ensuring that customers are having a more seamless and frictionless experience across these platforms and increases the reliability. And we really appreciate some of the great nuggets that you shared with us as it relates to what is a Service Level Objective versus a Service Level Agreement and a Service Level Indicator, great information to learn, to understand the whole process, because in order to navigate the customer experience, there is really a lot that you have to take into account to ensure that the customer walks away feeling like, yeah, that was that was fun, it was easy, it wasn't hard, and I was able to do it really quickly. So, thank you so much.    Please connect with us on Twitter @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest   The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners  Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience.” The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty. This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately! This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others. Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!

Irina Vatafu has nearly a decade of experience in customer-facing roles, she is deeply passionate about working with people, and dedicated to ensuring every customer feels valued and respected. Currently serving as the Head of Customer Success at Custify, Irina thrives in roles that require effective communication, problem-solving and empathetic engagement.  Her commitment to continuous improvement and staying current with industry trends ensures that her approach remains innovative and impactful. One of her key strengths is creating a collaborative and supportive environment that consistently delivers exceptional experiences and fosters strong customer loyalty. At the heart of her work is a dedication to championing the needs and voices of customers, which continues to inspire and drive her every single day.  Questions ·      Now, could you share with our listeners a little bit about how you got from where you were, to where you are today? ·      You are Head of Customer Success at Custify, could you share with our listeners, what Custify is and what your company does? ·      What would you say are maybe two or three attributes or competencies that you and your team need to have on a daily basis in serving these customer success managers so they can serve their own customers? ·      Now in terms of exercising empathy, could you share with our listeners maybe a use case where your customer had an issue. So, your customer came to you as the problem solver and you were able to exercise as empathetic engagement to basically try and help them to solve the problem quickly. ·      Can you also share with our listeners, what's the one online resource, tool, website or app that you absolutely can't live without in your business? ·      Can you also share with our listeners, maybe one or two books that you have read, it could be a book that you read recently, or even one you read a very long time ago, but it has had a great impact on you professionally, and even personally. ·      Now, Irina, can you also share with us what's the one thing that's going on in your life right now that you are really excited about? Either something you're working on to develop yourself or your people. ·      Where can listeners find you online? ·      Now, before we wrap our episodes of we always like to ask our guests, do you have a quote or a saying during times of adversity or challenge, you'll tend to revert to this quote if for any reason you get derailed or you get off track, the quote kind of helps to get you back on track. Highlights Irina's Journey Me: Now, could you share with our listeners a little bit about how you got from where you were, to where you are today?   Irina stated that's a great start. So, where she was, as mentioned in the beginning, she has nearly a decade of working in customer-facing roles. And her first role was as a support engineer, and now she's managing the team of Customer Success Managers and support team members. So, she started in first line there, she learned everything, and she was so passionate about working with customers that she always pushed herself to learn more, to offer better experiences, to progress and to make sure everyone is happy with her work and people that she works with are successful. So, yeah, baby steps, she arrived where she is today, and she's so grateful for that.   About the Custify – What Does Custify Do?  Me: So, you are Head of Customer Success at Custify correct? Could you share with our listeners, what Custify is and what your company does?   Irina shared that they are the CSMs of CSMs, she would say because their platform is a customer success tool. So, their end users, their customer success teams all over the world, they have customers in all countries, and they work with any business that has a SaaS product, so this is what they are doing.  And as mentioned, their users, their customer success managers, so they are dedicated customer success managers that support other customer success managers. So, they have to be a top-notch department in order to help them drive value and be successful with their tool.   Attributes or Competencies Needed Daily to Serve Customer Success Managers Me: What would you say are maybe two or three attributes or competencies that you and your team need to have on a daily basis in serving these customer success managers so they can serve their own customers?   Irina shared that she thinks the first thing that she has on her mind is they need to be perfect active listeners. So, they really need to listen to their customers need and to understand each business case and to be there as consultants and to make sure that they have success in their own departments, so they can prove value, and they can be their loyal customers for a long time.  Other things that matter of course to have that business understanding. So, not only to actively listen, but to also be flexible and creative to give proper advice and to be able to quickly understand the customer use case in order to guide them towards success.  Of course, you also need to be super organized in order to act like a project manager and help your customers achieve their milestones on time and respect all the agreed deadlines that they established with them in the beginning.  And the last but not least, of course, you need to be a naturally empathetic person because if you don't really care, let's say about customers, they will feel that so you really need to be a people person, and to be able to have the empathy to help them.   Exercising Empathy – Using Empathy in Problem Solving Me: Now in terms of exercising empathy, could you share with our listeners maybe a use case, you don't need to mention the customers' name or the company, but maybe a use case where your customer had an issue, because all businesses are created to solve problems. So, your customer came to you as the problem solver, and you were able to exercise as you coin it “Empathetic engagement” to basically try and help them to solve the problem quickly.   Irina shared that she remembers, she has a recent example. It's something that their team really struggled about. They had a situation where one of their customers, the CS lead came to them saying that, “Look, we really need to make it work, because our jobs depend on that. Things are not great for our CS department. So, we really need to move forward and to prove progress to our leadership in order to keep this department working.” And this was the first priority for them because of course, their empathetic triggers were started working, and they were like, “Okay, we have an important role here, we need to help this customer.”  And what they did, they came up with a success plan, they sat together, and they thought about all the top three priorities that the leadership would care about. And they decided that look, these are the main things that they need to focus on in the next weeks. And even if this is not part of their normal flow, they had more meetings, they had more internal brainstorming. So, they did everything they could to help the customer.  And yes, in the end, the customer was really successful. And it's not only that, he would was grateful. But they also have more partnerships and other things that derives from that initiative. So, empathy always matters. And acting like humans when someone needs us and not only looking at the contract value and the service hours included in the subscription, she thinks they could make a difference at some point.   App, Website or Tool that Irina Absolutely Can't Live Without in Her Business When asked about an online resource that she can't live without in her business, Irina shared that she thinks they internally rely a lot on what's happening on LinkedIn, they are connected with a lot of CS influencers, and they are also following their customers on LinkedIn.  So, they stay connected to the market with what's happening there. And they are up to date with all the webinars, with all the podcasts and everything that is happening there. So, she thinks LinkedIn is their main source of learning, and where they also find other opportunities to learn by subscribing to different newsletters and courses and everything.   Books that Have Had the Biggest Impact on Irina When asked about books that have had an impact, Irina shared that she has a funny story about the book. So, when she joined Custify, almost four years ago, she joined as a CSM and her manager told her that look, you should read this book, it's called Never Split the Difference: Negotiating As If Your Life Depended On It and she thinks it's Chris Voss who wrote it. And it's a negotiation book and when he told her to read that book, she was angry because the job description never included negotiation, let's say so she thought, okay, she was tricked, it's actually a sales role. And her manager now advises her to learn some negotiation skills.  But if you read the book, you will realize that you actually need negotiation skills in your day-to-day life. So, it's not about the selling or not selling something, it's really about what we need to do and negotiate for ourselves as human beings, and it makes an impact also in the professional life.   What Irina is Really Excited About Now! Irina shared that that's a good question. So, she would say that at the beginning of this year, they as a team, they knew that it would be a tough year because of the economical context and everything that is happening in the CS life. So, she and her team decided to keep their minds and hearts open and to be the support that their customers need amid the chaos and instability that is around. So, they sat together and adapted their workflows and prioritized their champions success. So, they had like a redesign all their flows.   And they are amazed to discover that this makes a difference. So, when all the departments work towards the same goals, they empower each other, and they focus primarily on customer success. So, they work closely with product sales, CS support in order to make sure that their customers are happy, this is a great initiative that they started this year. And they observed and they are surprised to see how authenticity and trust, being their team's current focus leads to amazing KPIs and success. So, this is their main focus right now and they are looking forward to see how this year will end.   Where can listeners find Irina online? LinkedIn - Irina Vatafu   Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Irina Uses When asked about a quote or saying that she tends to revert to, Irina shared that yes, she thinks that's something that helps her in those situations. She's always saying to herself, “When you don't know what to do, say the truth.” So, it always helped.   Me: So, be honest.   Well, thank you so much, Irina for jumping on this podcast and sharing all of the great insights that you're doing as a Customer Success Manager at Custify and also what your organization does, and the support that you are providing to teams all throughout the world, ensuring that they are able to solve problems and serve your customers in the best possible way. We really appreciate you taking time out of your busy schedule and sharing this information with us. Thank you so much.   Please connect with us on Twitter @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest   Links •     Never Split the Difference: Negotiating As If Your Life Depended On It by Chris Voss   The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience  Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners  Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience.” The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty. This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately! This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others. Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!

In this week's message, I wanted to begin by appreciating all of you for successfully completing your first mesocycle of the regular season. It is important now to have a long-term, multi-season approach to training. The focus of the second mesocycle will be on controlling your runs and on strengthening the kinetic chain of muscles for better running performance and injury prevention. Learn about how to approach a training season, the nature of the beast, and what you can do to be on top of the training 'train'.

The girls and the ginger are back! Today on Killing Time, we're talking conspiracies in a big way! Then! Today I learned… How the Earth (and Arby's) got their names, plus, the inspiration behind “No Scrubs” by TLC! Then! The return of On the Stand! We take one call from a listener but ya gotta get to the end to hear it!

Alan Williams is the founder of SERVICEBRAND GLOBAL and advises business leaders internationally to deliver value driven service.    Dave Stubberfield is the director of Carter Consultancy and specializes in enabling cultural transformation to help businesses achieve greatness. They are the authors of Supercharging the Customer Experience: How Organizational Alignment Drives Performance.   Questions · We always like to ask our guests if they could share in their own words a little bit about their journey. So basically, how it is that you got from where you were to where you are today. · Now, the both of you teamed up together and wrote this awesome book Supercharging the Customer Experience. Can you share with our listeners a little bit about the book, maybe two or three overarching themes that the book focuses on and who is the book geared towards? · What are maybe two or three behaviors that you believe is critical for customer success in a business both from an employee perspective and from the leadership perspective. · So, could you share maybe just some insight for us on what you believe is the future of AI as best as you can, because AI does cover a lot of stuff. But what do you believe is the future of AI? And how will that impact human interaction? · So, can you also share, and each of you can give me your answer to this particular question. What's the one online resource, tool, website or app that you absolutely cannot live without in your business? · If you could share with me maybe a book that you read recently, or even a very long time ago, but it has still had a very great impact on you, whether from a professional capacity or even a personal development capacity. · Now, can you also share with us what's the one thing that is going on in your life right now that you're really excited about, either something you're working on to develop yourself or your people. · Where can listeners find you online? · Now, before we close off the episode, we always like to ask our guests, do you have a quote or a saying that in times of adversity or challenge you will tend to revert to this quote if for any reason you get the real or you get off track, the quote kind of helps to get you back on track. Do you have one of those? Highlights Alan and Dave's Journey Me: We always like to ask our guests if they could share in their own words a little bit about their journey. So basically, how it is that you got from where you were to where you are today.   Alan Williams: Alan shared that he started off in commercial hospitality management. So, he remembered being at school thinking, he wants to go to university, but he wants to do a degree that's going to help him get a job.  And he really didn't like the idea of what he at that time considered to be really boring businesses like banking, where you're sat in an office all day. And he was lucky enough to get a holiday job in a hotel, and he thought that's it, exciting, looking after people, fun.  So, that was the beginning. And then he moved somewhat later in his career into workplace management. So you might know it as facilities management, so all of the services in workplaces offices, and he referred to them those offices actually, as they're really hotels with desks instead of beds, that's the only difference. And then he set up SERVICEBRAND GLOBAL in 2005, and he's been helping progressive leaders in organizations around the world since then, using what he learned in the hospitality sector.  Dave Stubberfield: Dave shared that for him, he guesses similar to a degree. So, he was just about leaving school and the careers advisor said, you've got the potential to go to university, but he didn't really know what for. So, he decided against it and tried the apprenticeship route in the corporate space, which he loved, and a lot of customer facing roles. Then there was an initiative called Lean, where he became kind of a Six Sigma qualified individual. And then it just kind of spiraled into attaching customer experience to the continuous improvement framework, really. And how changes adapt in organizations. And then, 2020 set up Carter Consultancy, and he hasn't looked back since. So yeah, he loves what he does.   About Alan and Dave's Book – Supercharging the Customer Experience and Three Overarching Themes the Book Focuses On Me: All right, thank you so much, gentleman. Now, the both of you teamed up together and wrote this awesome book Supercharging the Customer Experience. Can you share with our listeners and either of you can answer this question, a little bit about the book, maybe two or three overarching themes that the book focuses on and who is the book geared towards?   Dave Stubberfield: Dave shared that he's known Alan for a few years now. But it just so happens that they were interested in creating a customer experience development programme for the BQF, The British Quality Foundation. And the President kind of joined them together and said, “Look, you're both trying to achieve the same things.” So very, very quickly, during their initial meeting, they realized that they are very aligned in how they think and what they wanted to achieve. And through the development of that programme, and Alan out of the blue turns and he said to Dave, “This has got the makings of a great book. Do you want to write one?” And like a rabbit in the headlights, he just kind of froze, and then said, “Yes, let's do that.”  And so, through Alan's guidance from his previous experience of being an author, he's brought him on that journey with him and he's really, really enjoyed it. And the foundation to the book really stemmed from the training, the development programme they put together, which is really all about putting CX into context. They believe there's a lot of content out there. He's going to leave Alan to drop the question in a second, but they believe there's a lot of content out there. But they believe that the actual application of customer experience doesn't happen as frequently as it should, which led us to the question, Alan?   Alan Williams: Alan shared that's right. When they were thinking about the book, they were thinking, well, how is this book going to be any different to all of the others out there on the topic of customer experience? Because don't know if you've checked, but there's just like so many books on the topic. And they just found themselves with this question, which is, “With all the content on the topic that's out there, why is great customer experience so rare?” It doesn't make sense if there's all that resource out there to guide people.  And that was what Dave's just touched on there that the problem, and the challenge is that so much of the time people are focused on content, and knowledge, rather than the practical application of that knowledge on a day in day out basis. And that's why the great customer experience is so rare. And in the book, they provide a framework that helps you whatever sector you're in, wherever you are in the world, whatever the size of your organization provides you with a framework that can help to guide you create your own customer experience strategy that suits your own particular individual circumstances.   Me: All right, so let's use a use example, a use case, I like the fact that you gentleman said that you want to focus on the practical because you are very correct. There are many, many books out there on CX and EX. And you read the content, and it's focused on knowledge, the definitions, the theory, but how does that really work with an organization, with people, with their behaviour, we getting them motivated with having them intrinsically applying that in every single interaction regardless of the channel that they're serving the customer on. So, you can choose a business, I will leave it up to you in terms of the use case, just give us an example of based on the framework that you have in the book, how does this really apply to a business?   Alan Williams: Alan shared that he's not even going to choose a particular business. He thinks that sometimes when you do that, you're kind of dragged into generalization. So, he's just going to tell you a story. And it was a business that he was working in and they focused really hard on everybody that was in the organization understanding that they were part of delivering a great customer service and their job was to make their customers and clients feel important, that was the reason that they were all there.  And he remembered on reception, they were expecting a guy attending a very important meeting. And so obviously, they knew in advance that he was arriving, and they have pre-prepared a name badge, they also aimed to greet people before they introduce themselves in this particular environment. And so that happened, the receptionist greeted the gentleman by name, but they had not expected one thing, and that is that he brought with him a small terrier dog. Now, the receptionist actually said to him, complimented him on the dog, and then said, “And now Sir, if you could just lift him up in front of the camera.” and produce a name badge for the dog. And the guy went into the meeting room and announced to the people from the client organization, “That is the best welcome I've ever had anywhere in the world.” And then the meeting was a great success, down to that receptionist. So, the reason he loves that story is because it really emphasizes the importance of people understanding the big why they're there, rather than getting consumed and distracted with the small tasks that they might have to do in order to satisfy them.   Behaviours that are Critical for Customer Success in a Business from an Employee Perspective and from the Leadership Perspective Me: Now, based on your research, and your experience, both of you in the CX space, if you were to choose maybe two or three behaviours that you believe is critical for customer success in a business, and I'm not just talking from the employee perspective, but also from the leadership perspective, like what are the three key behaviours that will more than likely lead to a culture where people have that customer centric mindset, regardless of the type of customer, how complex the problem or issue might be, but they're always driven by that because of those core behaviours. Would you be able to identify what those if you were to pick three, what those would be?   Dave Stubberfield: Dave shared that he can start with one for sure. And the one that leaps out with him is Empathy. And that runs from a kind of a customer facing team into the customer, but like you said, it's the leadership into to the rest of the teams and the organization. He thinks having that empathetic understanding of what people might be trying to do, or what they're going through, is so powerful.  And we're stepping into the realms of emotional intelligence here. And to the point that Alan's just made in that in that story, which is fantastic. People have to buy into that, right. So, they have to buy into that culture of trying to achieve and deliver that experience, not once but every single time. And he thinks that starts with a lot of empathy. He knows some leaders that are not very empathetic, shall we say, and don't understand why they can't achieve the results they want to achieve, not only in the business, but in the customer experience space as well. So, he would lead with empathy being one of the most powerful ones because it unlocks so much. Alan, I don't know if you've got anything to add to that at all?   Alan Williams: Alan shared that he'll go with number two, though, which he thinks is about positivity. So, when a customer asks you for something, the answer is yes. And it might not be exactly what they were expecting or had asked for. But how often do you hear, no, can't do that. And that's really not a good start to a conversation. So, he'd follow empathy with Positivity.   Dave Stubberfield: Dave stated that he would go number three is probably Communication. And that he guesses all ties everything up together nicely. He thinks sometimes, again, starting at the top with leadership, they might send a message once, whether it's via email, or it could be in person, it could be a presentation, and some people think that they can just deliver that message once and everyone gets it and understand it, it needs to be reinforced, it needs to become part of the embedded as part of the DNA of the organization. And that message needs to be repeated so it's understood and lived every single day. And he thinks having a great deal of empathy, and positivity, it just needs to be reinforced through communication, he personally believes.   Alan Williams: Alan asked can they give you just one extra one as a bit of added value. So, he'd go with Obsessive Attention to Detail. And this is kind of every person, every day, every minute, because consistency is what makes the great businesses set apart from those that are good some of the time. And that's because everybody in the organization knows the fine detail of what's required, and is then committed to delivering that every single time.   Me: All right, so Empathy, Positivity, Vommunication and Obsessive Attention to detail. Okay, thank you so much, gentlemen.    Insight on the Future of AI and How it Will Impact Human Interaction Me: Now, I liked the fact that most of what you talked about focuses on people, focuses on behaviour, focuses on relationships, practical things that we can see, things that we do every day. I found, and I'm sure you've seen it as well, that in the last, I would say, maybe two or three years or even before but definitely in the last two or three years, there has been a lot of emergence in the space of technology with artificial intelligence. And I find that organizations sometimes may not necessarily be integrating it or using it in the best way possible to ensure that it's not replacing humans, but more so helping humans that can really help the overall experience.  And I'll give you an example. Over the weekend, I had a friend that has a mobile modem and we were having some issues adding some data to it and we called our local telecommunication company, reached out to them through their website. Actually no, we did it through their app that was on the phone, but the app has a Bot at the top and the bots name was Ruby. But Ruby can't answer any questions, Ruby doesn't remember what you told her before. And so, you tell Ruby, I'd like to speak with a representative, Ruby starts a conversation again, “Please provide me with your name and account number. Please tell me exactly what your query is about.” And I told Ruby that before and I felt like I was going in circles, it was just crazy. So, could you share maybe just some insight for us on what you believe is the future of AI as best as you can, because AI does cover a lot of stuff. But what do you believe is the future of AI? And how will that impact human interaction?   Dave Stubberfield: Dave shared that it's really interesting. And they cover a lot of this in the book. And honestly, you could spend hours upon hours doing research. And he kind of immersed himself into this. You're spot on, AI is kind of forefront of technology at the minute, everyone seems to be dipping into it. You've also got augmented reality that people are looking at as well and they are fantastic things, and it's just incredible what some of these things can do. The problem that organizations have today is they see something shiny, something sparkly and go, right, we need that. And they try and integrate it and it's just kind of a lift and shift, kind of slot it into a place, and it fits in just or they've squeezed things around, and they go perfect. We can take our AI integration box off, we've done that.  But like you've just said there, there's not been any kind of sort of thinking or thought process around how we actually integrate that to the all of the other services and ways of communication that we have as an organization, that omni channel element hasn't been considered, we just see AI as a way potentially to do something with generative text, for example. And we go yep, okay, we can we can get that in, we can do that there, and boom, it's done. It's thinking about the entire process.  And he thinks another element to that is, let's say one organization in a certain industry does something that's quite revolutionary. Other companies in the same industry or even outside the industry might try and replicate that and they haven't considered how they operate as an organization, the value they deliver to their customers, and if it actually works. He thinks a lot of people feel like they might miss the boat if they don't sort of get on board with the technology bus, because it's just constantly changing. So, there's a lot of risk when it comes to technology, you need to do your research, your homework and what fits for the business.  And for him, it's thinking about it from a people point of view, technology's forefront of the minute AI, you name it, there's lots it can do. But it needs to work for people. And that's the thing, really, he thinks sometimes isn't considered. So, that would be his thought. Alan, I don't know if you've got anything to add to that at all.   Alan Williams: Alan shared that he thinks that the issue is that people consider technology to be an alternative solution, whereas in fact, it should just be a support to people. So, when you've got predictability and high volume, then sure, he thinks technology can be a massive help in that sort of situation. But where you've got unpredictability, and perhaps volume that is up and down, then it's much less helpful. And it might be that a human being could deal with that much, much better. So, the big thing, though, is this thing about technology being a tool, rather than the be all and end all and he liken it to a scalpel, a scalpel in the hands of a really experienced surgeon can save people's lives. But in the hands of somebody who doesn't know what they're doing can be really dangerous. And it's the same with tech and customer experience.   App, Website or Tool that Alan and Dave Absolutely Can't Live Without in Their Businesses When asked about an online resource that they can't live without in their business:  Dave Stubberfield: Dave stated what a question. He's going to be totally contradictory to what he just said, he going to go ChatGPT. So, he uses that as a bit of a sounding board, really. So, in his organization, it's just him. So, sometimes when he has a bit of an idea, he thinks, “Oh, okay, maybe I should post it on social media or I should do this and have a bit of an idea.” He will often ask Alan because they are very alike, but sometimes he will just put a bit of a question into ChatGPT and asked for maybe what's relevant or how he should do a certain thing. And knowing that it's not always 100% accurate, he uses that as kind of as a gauge really to see if he's on the right track.  It's funny, he will put something into ChatGPT, for example. Let's say he wanted to do a LinkedIn post this week and he might say, “Give me five myths about customer experience that we can debunk.” And he might find one of them, he goes, “Well, that's not a myth at all. That's the complete truth.” So, he might swing it in a way that he thinks is his own personal view and opinion. And he uses that as kind of a something to generate a bit of a conversation with himself rather than just talking to the brick wall. So for him, he quite often uses ChatGPT, he would say he's using it daily, which is, it's mad really how it's become so prominent in people's lives.   Alan Williams: Alan shared that he's going to add to his CV that Dave asked him before ChatGPT that'd go down really well. His, is his Outlook Calendar. He's a bit too reliant on this. Basically, if it's not on the calendar, he's not there. And occasionally, he was telling somebody just the other day how he was just about to go into a lunch meeting and he got a message from somebody saying, “Really looking forward to seeing you for lunch today.” And he had to have a very quick lunch meeting and then get to the other one and not tell the person. But his calendar is his.   Me: So, Calendar and ChatGPT. Excellent.   Books that Have Had the Biggest Impact on Alan and Dave Me: Now, I usually ask the question, what book or books have had the biggest impact on you? I noticed in your book, which I love about how the layout of the book was done, that at the end of each chapter, you have a little box that says, “Want to know more” with resources in the form of articles and books that the reader can access if they want to gain additional information. I think that's brilliant. But I will still ask it. So, if you could share with me maybe a book that you read recently, or even a very long time ago, but it has still had a very great impact on you, whether from a professional capacity or even a personal development capacity.   Alan Williams: When asked about books that have had the biggest impact, Alan shared that his is a long time ago, actually. So, The Balanced Scorecard: Translating Strategy into Action by Robert S. Kaplan and David P. Norton. So, basically, this is about making sure that your business is balanced and looking after all of the different stakeholder groups, rather than being just focused on generating profit. And over the years, that kind of sentiment he thinks has grown into triple quadruple bottom line ESG, all of the terms that are given to it, but basically a very, very similar message in that you're managing your business holistically, rather than just to generate profits. So, that's his.    Dave Stubberfield: Dave shared that he's got a few that springs to mind. And the one he's going to talk about most prominently is the one he's listened to recently is the One Minute Manager by Kenneth H. Blanchard. This was a recommendation to him, he's heard it and seen the sites all around, but he's never actually taken the time to listen to it. So, that for him was really, really interesting because it talks about trying to do things in a minute, setting goals that people can read in a minute. Having reviews whether it's positive or negative in a minute, so you can redirect people or praise people. And he thinks a lot of us get bogged down in just day to day life, that everything becomes much more intense than it needs to be. So, that One Minute Manager for him, it was talking specifically about managing a team in an organization. But he thinks you can apply it to absolutely anything. So, that's the one he's listened to most recently that has been phenomenal and eye opening for me.   One that he would like to call out that he's previously listened to is The Prosperous Coach: Increase Income and Impact for You and Your Clients by Steve Chandler. So, coaching is a part of what he does and t that was something that really helped him and kind of confirmed to him and validate that he can do what he's doing, which was amazing, because he had a lot of doubt at the time when he started if he's a massive suffer of the imposter syndrome. So, that was really good for him personally.  And the other one he was considering? It was, Who Moved My Cheese?: An Amazing Way To Deal With Change In Your Work And In Your Life by Spencer Johnson, which is just he thinks it's a staple, if you haven't read or listened to that, then go and listen to that. That's phenomenal.   What Alan and Dave are Really Excited About Now! Alan Williams: When asked about something that they are excited about Alan shared that this is going to be boring to some people, because the CX in context development programme, he's thrilled about this, because they've started to deliver to clients, and the feedback has just been fantastic. And people are just saying, this is a real eye opener, because CX cannot just be treated in isolation, it is inextricably connected to other parts of the business. And this framework helps them to do that in a really simple to understand way and a very practical way. When he gets that sort of feedback, it makes him feel that it's been worth putting together what they've put together because it's good to be able to help so many people out there.   Dave Stubberfield: Dave shared that for him, he could quite easily say the same thing. But he's going to be different. So, he would say in the past 18 months, he's been developing an online tool that's called Nova. And Nova is a way and means of teams, organizations to measure how well they are implementing continuous improvement in their business, or in their team or in their organization. And that is something he's done for a long time and he used to do it by an Excel spreadsheet. And talking to a friend of his, he said, “Dave, why on earth are you using a spreadsheet in this day and age?” And he kind of sat back and thought, “Okay, I should practice what I preach here and change what I do.” And it's led to this tool, which he personally believes is cutting edge.  So, basically, it's an assessment that each team would do in an organization, it will give them a score, it will give them actions to do, it will give industry insights as well, based on the information that's been provided, just so that it can help the team progress. That then creates an aggregated score up to the leadership, and that can be viewed across the leadership peers and the group. So, if you've got an entire organization, you've got a continuous improvement score, essentially, for the entire organization with industry insights that help drive the improvement of that organization and with Alan's help, they're going to look at introducing customer experience to that later in the year.  They've also got plans to introduce change management as well, as well as vision values, employee engagement, they see this as a potential game changer tool that can disrupt organizations for the better. So, a lot of positive to come from that. And that's not long been launched really, the start of this year and they've seen some really, really interesting returns on investment as well. So, fingers crossed that's one for the future.   Me: That sounds amazing, Dave. Is that available to anyone in the public? Or it's still in beta?   Dave shared that it's available to absolutely everyone and anyone that might be a little bit unsure, a little bit reluctant to get involved or have a look, there's a free business health check at the very beginning that you can take, an initial assessment that sort of points you in the right direction, ask some leading questions to get you thinking, “Are you doing the right thing?” And at the end of it, it will tell you how you're performing based on that information and their suggestions moving forward. So, there's a bit of a freebie at the front as well.   Me: Now, my next question would be where can our listeners find that resource online?   Dave shared that they can find that at www.thinknova.uk    Where Can We Find Alan and Dave Online Alan Williams - Company website – www.servicebrand.global.com LinkedIn – Alan Williams   Dave Stubberfield - LinkedIn – Dave Stubberfield Dave's company website – www.carter-consultancy.com   Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Alan and Dave Uses  Me: Now, before we close off the episode, we always like to ask our guests, do you have a quote or a saying that in times of adversity or challenge you will tend to revert to this quote if for any reason you get the real or you get off track, the quote kind of helps to get you back on track. Do you have one of those?   Alan Williams: When asked about a quote or saying that they tent to revert to, Alan shared that this relates to the book, actually. So, he created this the end of last year (2023) and that is, “Content without context is toast.”   Me: I saw that in the book, I thought it was kind of cute. So, can you tell our listeners a little bit about how that quote brings you back on track?   Alan shared that it originated really from culture eats strategy for breakfast, it's like that kind of ring and tone to it. And he was just thinking about how so much, especially with social media, it's all about pumping stuff out there. But he thinks it really helps you to recollect yourself if you remember that your particular situation is unique. And you just need to focus on that. Don't get worried with all of the possibilities of all of the content, just think about what situation you're in right now and that will help you deal with it.   Me: All right. Thank you so much, Alan. Dave, do you have one of those quotes?   Dave Stubberfield: Dave shared that he does, his is a bit cheesy, people might hear and go, oh, no. But his one is, “Teamwork makes the dream work.” And he thinks, for him, to put that into context, again, he's spoken that he's solo in the business. But he thinks realizing that collaboration is king, really. So, let's take the book as an example. There would have been days, he's sure, that he would have been not really 100%, and not firing on all cylinders. But he knew that he would have to present something to Alan later in that day to say, “This is what I've done or what I've produced.” So, that would be that factor.  But there would also be helping Alan out. If Alan said, Ok, we've got 10 actions to do, but I'm in meetings for the rest of the week, he would go leave that with me. I'll pick that up. he'll take the strain. And he thinks that's part of that teamwork. And he thinks, again, that's part of why they work so well, because they do have the ability to understand when someone hasn't got the time or the space. The other person just seems to pick it up from somewhere. He doesn't understand how or why, it's a bit of a dark art, but it seems to be working well for them. But that for him is the one, knowing that collaborating with people is often going to be so more advantageous to absolutely everyone. That's the one for him that pulls him out of that pit sometimes where he might not be feeling great.   Me: All right, thank you so much. So, Alan's quote, “Content without context is toast.” And Dave's quote is, “Teamwork makes the dream work.” Now, both quotes are phenomenal. And just to kind of piggyback on what Dave said just now, I say it all the time in customer service trainings, no man is an island, and the reason why an organization has more than one person working in it is we all have to work together. Everyone's role is important. You gentlemen wrote this book and I'm sure that it required a lot of sweat, tears, hard work, focus, just a lot of energy and engagement that you both had to put into it. And it wouldn't be the success that it is today if it is that you didn't put that effort into it. So, I fully, fully, fully endorse both the quotes that you've given to us.  And just want to remind our listeners that customer experience is a journey, it's not something you're going to get to overnight or in an hour. It's not something that you're going to just get from one book. And it's something that we continually work to improve every single day that we get the opportunity to work on it. So, thank you so much for sharing your great insights about your book, about all the different things that you're doing in your organizations, with your own clients. It was really a great interview and I hope you had as much fun as I did.   Please connect with us on Twitter @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest   Links • The Balanced Scorecard: Translating Strategy into Action by Robert S. Kaplan and David P. Norton •  The One Minute Manager by Kenneth H. Blanchard •  The Prosperous Coach: Increase Income and Impact for You and Your Clients by Steve Chandler •  Who Moved My Cheese?: An Amazing Way To Deal With Change In Your Work And Life by Spencer Johnson   The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners  Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience.” The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty. This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately! This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others. Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!

VALDOR MATOS, SEZAR CAVALCANTE e JAMIERSON OLIVEIRA são pastores. Eles vão debater a respeito das vertentes da igreja sobre tribulações e o arrebatamento. O Vilela não vê a hora de Jesus voltar pra ele poder relembrar sua infância com ele. Conheça a nova linha de Tech T-shirts. Depois de experimentar, é impossível voltar atrás. #insiderstore Desbloqueie 12% de desconto com o cupom INTELIGENCIA https://www.insiderstore.com.br/InteligenciaLTDA Conheça os projetos da APROSOJA Mato Grosso no instagram deles: https://www.instagram.com/aprosojamt AJUDE O RIO GRANDE DO SUL: https://www.vakinha.com.br/vaquinha/a-maior-campanha-solidaria-do-rs/ Linha de óculos do Vilela: https://www.dutyotica.com.br/duty-by-vilela.html

Interview with Ben Mills who is the CEO and co-founder of Meso. We discuss:- His time at PayPal/Venmo and Solana labs - How Meso is helping to improve crypto payments by connecting banks and crypto apps- Impact of Stablecoins on payments- Bitcoin ETFs - Crypto Regulations 

Robert Scarperi, Bob has been a leader in professional services, SaaS, financial services, ad tech mar tech, and management consulting for 32 years. His company, Revenue Vision Partners is the industry's leading data-driven revenue growth consulting firm. Questions · Could you share with our listeners, just a little bit about how you got from where you were to where you are today? · You wrote a book called Data and Diagnosis-Driven Selling with three other gentlemen. So, could you take a minute to kind of just go through maybe three overarching themes that the book focuses on? And just how do you believe this can really help an organization to deliver a great customer experience? · Now, I'd like for you to share with us what's the one online tool, resource, website or application that you absolutely can't live without in your business? · Can you also share with us maybe one or two books that you have read, it could be a book that you read a very long time ago, or even one that you've read recently, but it has had a great impact on your development and even your continued growth. · Now, Bob, could you also share with our listeners, what's the one thing that's going on in your life right now that you're really excited about, either something you're working on to develop yourself or your people. · Where can listeners find you online? · Now, Bob, before we wrap up, we always like to give our guests an opportunity to share. I'm not sure if you have one of these but a quote that you would tend to revert to if for any reason you are faced with some form of adversity, or challenge, but that quote will help to get you refocused, get you back on track, and just help you if for any reason you got the real or you got off track. Highlights Bob's Journey  Me: Now, we always like to give our listeners an opportunity to hear from the guest, in their own words, a little bit about your journey. And it has been quite a long journey, 32 years is a good amount of time to have under your belt in all of these wonderful areas. So, could you share with our listeners, just a little bit about how you got from where you were to where you are today?   Bob shared that right around the time he was finishing college, he had a really strong pull to get into sales, he was extremely lucky to have had a best friend's father was the top sales guy at Automatic Data Processing, ADP, which is sort of known to be one of the best and strongest sales driven cultures in the Fortune 100.  And right from the very beginning, all of their structure, rigor, process, intensity really meshed with his personality and his sort of competitive nature. And so, he was lucky enough to have some early success, he's very, very grateful for how much faith they had in him from an early age, giving him opportunities to run sales teams and move and get to experience new geographies and have really great experiences in such a phenomenally well-run company.  And then without going into too much detail, of course, his journey took him through a number of different industries, early days of ad tech, he worked for a long time as an equity sales and trading person at AllianceBernstein. He was lucky enough also to have some leadership positions, run sales teams internationally.  And then toward the last 10 years of his career, he had three Chief Revenue Officer roles in high growth technology companies where he really started to embrace being a leader who prided himself on installing a systematic data driven approach.  And toward the end of that decade, he decided he really wanted to do that as a consultant for a portfolio of companies so that he could be really working through various kind of company challenges in different industries with private equity firms as their partner. So, that's what brought him to where he is now.   About Bob's Book – Data and Diagnosis-Driven Selling and Three Overarching Themes That Can Help Organizations Enhance Customer Experience Me: Now, Bob, you wrote a book called Data and Diagnosis-Driven Selling: Leveraging insights, intelligence and the power of AI to deliver efficient, durable revenue growth with three other gentlemen, Mark Petruzzi, Ray Rike and Paul Melchiorre. So, could you take a minute to kind of just go through maybe three overarching themes that the book focuses on? And just how do you believe this can really help an organization to deliver a great customer experience? And I'd love for you to maybe segment it for us, because selling covers so many different areas. If you're selling to a business versus if you're selling to a customer….an individual, so maybe you could take one of those areas and kind of just break it down for us. And just give examples of what you wrote about in the book can really help teams that are in sales because sales is critical, it's a lifeline of any business. But how can the sales team really drive a quality customer experience that can drive to a high customer retention rate, because at the end of the day, that's really what all businesses are aiming for, as you're going to be able to keep your customers for life.   Bob shared that regarding who it's written for, it would really be for anyone selling to or trying to persuade a group of decision makers, so, usually an organization where a number of people contribute to a decision that is primarily in B2B sales. But if you find yourself in a position where you are trying to convince a town council to vote your way on a specific issue that's been a problem for the community or anything else where there are a group of people who need to kind of come together to make a decision, their book will help you.  And the way that it helps you is it lays out an approach that is not only proven by some of the most successful people in B2B sales, but it's also modern, utilizing the most high quality available B2B data. And they also talk about systems support, and AI as a tool that can help the modern salesperson navigate this very complex selling environment with multiple decisions in a tough time in the market, the macro environment is currently as complex as it's ever been. And being successful in sales at the moment is also as challenging and complex as it's ever been.   Me: So, I kind of wanted you also to maybe just go into, I would say, as I said, three overarching themes that the book focuses on. So, you mentioned AI and it's a very hot topic right across, I think, across the world, really, since it was introduced, especially since it's so accessible to everyone currently. But what does that really mean when you are selling to someone? Because at the end of the day, you're still dealing with human beings, so, what is the data really going to tell you? Or how is it going to help you to navigate that conversation? Because there has to be some human interaction, right? So, I kind of want you to walk us through that process.   Bob shared that the book talks about two different types of AI and it's really exciting because he doesn't think there is a sales book currently that, again, not only combines improving elements with AI and data approaches, but the two types of AI are generative AI, those would be systems like Chat GPT, who can help you create content in order to be compelling in a sales process. And predictive AI, technologies like and he'll use an example, Clari, which is a tool that helps sales teams understand which of their open sales opportunities have the highest probability of closing, based on a myriad of factors. So, they do get into really solid detail and they also have contributors in the book who are experts in various topics and tell stories about how they've used these tools successfully.   Me: So, that's excellent, very good explanation on the generative and predictive AI. Because I do believe that we throw toward around so much in different industries, especially in the customer experience industry, many people believe that artificial intelligence is going to replace human beings and we're all going to be obsolete and not worth any value anymore. But I'm not there yet. And I live in Kingston, Jamaica, where we use technology here a lot, but we are not going to get to that point anytime soon, definitely not in my lifetime where you're not going to need people because we are still a society that is heavily dependent on people interaction. For example, in our banks here, and I compare it to the United States all the time. The banks are still full, 50….40 people standing in the banks. I travelled to the US quite often and I go to different financial institutions, and they are empty, there's nobody physically standing in there, there are no lines lined up outside or people lined up inside. So, just in terms of the culture and the behaviour of people just don't believe that we're going to eliminate the people component in customer experience, because people still like to deal with people, right?   Bob agreed yes, absolutely. And it's funny because he does feel like and the way that they lay it out in the book, AI can put you in a position to have more and better live human interactions with the right audience, if used properly. It doesn't replace humans; it sets humans up to be the best version of themselves and optimize their approach every day.   Me: I love it. So, it's really supposed to help us to interact better, to get to decisions faster, to understand people's behaviours quicker, to find solutions that are more need based, because a lot of times salespeople sell you stuff, they're driven by the quotas that they need to meet, they're driven by the pressures that their organizations put on them. But when you match value to the experience that the person is having and are they really getting the right solution, a lot of times down the road when there is like let's say a survey that's being done, or some form of focus group, especially if they're losing customers over a period of time, you realize that it wasn't even the right solution that was given to the client, or it wasn't being managed the proper way. And I guess, if they had the right data from day one, and it was being provided in the right way, they wouldn't have lost the customer in the first place.   Bob stated yes, he couldn't agree more. The third theme of the book is utilizing simple data science in order to ensure that your sales approach is driven by your Ideal Customer Profile (IDP). And he'll just briefly state that as a sales leader, he had gotten frustrated by knowing that focusing on the ideal customer profile was the right thing and then defining that and making that approach data driven was impossible. It was a very distant and vague concept. But he believes that they own the very best definition now of what the ideal customer profile is and how to take that definition and identify score and rank specific prospects and clients that are the best match to that ideal customer profile and create an entire commercial approach with that as the foundation.   Me: All right, and what is the definition that you have identified in the book as your ideal customer profile?   Bob shared that it's basically utilizing firmographic traits to know what industry, what sub sector, what size of the company, how much it's growing, what web scraping tells you about a company, when you can build a model that identifies those common traits in your best customers, and utilize expert panels to ensure that the model has picked up on the right signals, that is the best way to create an ideal customer profile, and again, score and rank accounts. That's quite technical, but it's all in the book.   Me: Yes, agreed. And our listeners would have tapped into this episode, and they'd like to put their hands on your book, where can they find it?   Bob shared that the book, it's available in all the major outlets, but he will tell you, he's a huge fan of Amazon and is readily available on Amazon in softcover, hardcover, and they'll have an audio version available within three weeks of today (May 09. 2024).   Me: Oh, okay, that was actually going to be my next question. Do you have it available on Audible? And you better get used to this voice because it's 80% of the narration is done by him (Bob).    App, Website or Tool that Bob Absolutely Can't Live Without in His Business When asked about online resource that he cannot live without in his business, Bob shared ZoomInfo. ZoomInfo provides a backbone to a lot of the data work that they do at Revenue Vision Partners. And when they were in the marketplace to procure data assets, they did a thorough evaluation, they were convinced at the time and four plus years later, he continued to be convinced that ZoomInfo has the best B2B data available in the market.   Books that Have Had the Biggest Impact on Bob When asked about books that have had a great impact, Bob shared that he would say that far and away, Strategic Selling: The Unique Sales System Proven Successful by America's Best Companies by Robert B. Miller and Stephen Heiman is the number one book that has contributed to the way that he has approached sales since the early 90s. He feels it lays out the most logical and powerful and consistent approach or methodology for B2B sales.  What they tried to do with the new book is take methodologies like Strategic Selling, SPIN Selling, The Challenger Sale, and modernize the approach again with Data and Diagnosis and AI and build upon those methodologies.   What Bob is Really Excited About Now! When asked about something that he's excited about, Bob shared that in their firm right now, they're doing one of these ideal customer profile-based data projects for a very large, diversified industrial company who services about a dozen different end markets. They're a multi-billion-dollar organization, they've run a pilot in one of their key divisions and it's been a phenomenally successful data model.  And he's convinced that their are hundreds of salespeople are going to utilize their time better, they're going to sell bigger and better fit accounts, they're going to be more gratified in their jobs, the company's going to gain market share in a more consistent and repeatable way.  And it's thrilling to do that, because this was the promise that they built their company on, and this couldn't be a better group of humans to work with who he just wants to see them succeed for all the right reasons. So, he's so excited about this journey, they're just far enough along where there's proof that it's working and there's so much ahead of them in terms of their ability to empower them to succeed.   Me: All right, I'm excited too, just hearing all of the great opportunities that lie ahead.   Bob shared that in his tennis game, he feels like his backhand is really ready for summer.   Me: Do you play competitively, or do you just play for fun?   Bob stated that he plays intermediate competitively. So, he can be pretty terrible. He has a couple of great shots and feel really good about himself, but it's a blast.   Where Can We Find Bob Online LinkedIn – Bob Scarperi Company LinkedIn – Revenue Vision Partners Instagram – @bobbyscarp Website - www.revenuevisionpartners.com Facebook – Bob Scarperi   Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Bob Uses  When asked about a quote or saying that he tends to revert to, Bob shared that it's quite a long one, so, he's not going to quote the whole thing, but unless he takes up the rest of the time, but it is, The Man in the Arena, quote by Teddy Roosevelt.  And starting a business in one's middle age with lots of financial obligations, including three kids, two step-kids, etc…etc…has been a really bold decision and quite terrifying at times. And every time he wonders if he's done the right thing, he grounds himself in that amazing speech and always feel like he comes back to believing that he was born to do something bold and that living through terrifying entrepreneurial moments are part of that and the victories that one is lucky enough to experience when they make that brave and bold decision are that much sweeter than then any other career related victories in his life. Of course, his highest highs have to do with his kids, but that whole man in the arena concept keeps him going every day. “It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”    Me: So, we will have that full quote in the Show Notes of our episode, the Teddy Roosevelt quote, along with what you shared just now as it relates to kind of getting you back refocused on why you do what you do.   Bob shared that and if you saw the Tom Brady roast on Netflix, Matt Damon does a great job of narrating the entire thing.   Me: All right, Bob, thank you so much for jumping on our podcast today and sharing all these great insights as it relates to Diagnostic Selling and Data Driven Selling, as well as Artificial Intelligence and the ICP, it's all great information. I've started consuming a part of the content of the book, but I just believe I'd get so much more from the audible. So, I'm actually going to wait until it's released in the next three weeks to continue, I just believe I get so much more listening to it rather than reading it. But I would recommend for anyone that is a listener to our podcast to tap into this awesome resource that Bob and his team have so graciously given to us in the world, it's a great resource. And I believe that if we continue to try to find ways to add value to people's lives, create opportunities that you're really providing the solutions that your customers want, that will allow them to be your customer for life, through the techniques that you use to ensure that you are selling the right way, making the decisions the right way, your customer experience will take care of itself. So, thank you so much.   Please connect with us on X @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest   Links •     Data and Diagnosis-Driven Selling: Leveraging insights, intelligence and the power of AI to deliver efficient, durable revenue growth by Bob Scarperi •     Strategic Selling: The Unique Sales System Proven Successful by America's Best Companies by Robert B. Miller and Stephen Heiman    The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners  Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience.” The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty. This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately! This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others. Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!

The podcast interview discusses maternal health disparities, the importance of collaboration between occupational therapists and physical therapists, and the role of technology and personal experiences in empowering women and improving healthcare outcomes, with a focus on trauma-informed, individualized care and systemic change.Released in Tandem with AOTA SPECIALTY CONFERENCE:Women's Health https://www.aota.org/events/calendar/aota-specialty-conference-womens-healthTrauma-Informed Collaboration Resource Compilation: https://qr.link/jgmFXOKatherine Sylvester is a mother of two, physical therapist, preeclampsia survivor, clinical assistant professor for women's health, and VBAC-certified doula. She is the founder of Operation M.I.S.T. where she and her team teach women to use smart watches and blood pressure cuffs for safer pregnancies, smoother cycles, and better health. She and her team also host More than a Period Parties and Heart Harmony Seminars where they teach ladies about their bodies so they can trust, prepare and protect them throughout all phases of womanhood.Operation M.I.S.T. https://operationmist.org/The poem (both written and read) is below:Written poem: From Racism to Remote Monitoring: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H-3lGLBjORkkyhjOkAdTPxo2VLe2_npOV41-WQ8k3YE/editRead: From Racism to Remote Monitoring Spoken Word:https://www.youtube.com/watch?si=5nXYRxPEqbGBk5H8&v=W1qrTFcVrC8&feature=youtu.beKary Gillenwaters serves as a community-based OT and the SOLACE Foundation  director of support and community engagement. Eeleven years ago, the birth of Kary's first child resulted in her becoming a member of a club no one signs up for or anticipates. At the time, little to no support was available online, health care teams had little experience with serious obstetrical tears, and the lack of understanding and meaningful support made an already difficult life transition even more challenging. But as many of the members of this club have learned, these experiences are more common than we think-it's just that it's all too painful (and sometimes embarrassing) to talk about, so we don't. The silence and isolation that so often follow a severe obstetric laceration exacerbate the physical, mental, emotional and spiritual challenges people face, overnight, not just to their body, but to their roles, their relationships, and their identity.SOLACE Foundation: https://www.solaceforwomen.org/Raising awareness of severe obstetric lacerations by promoting prevention through maternal education and research, driving change toward a standard of care, and providing women with comprehensive support through their healing journeys.Kary's 4th Degree Care Story: https://solidagovc.com/blog/the-impact-of-birth-injuries-interprofessional-teaming-and-informed-consent-on-the-occupations-of-motherhoodEvolved Living Network Instragram @EvolvedLivingNetworkFree Occupational Science 101 Guidebookhttps://swiy.co/OS101GuidePodcastOS Empowered OT Facebook Grouphttps://www.facebook.com/groups/1569824073462362/Link to Full Podcast Disclaimer https://docs.google.com/document/d/13DI0RVawzWrsY-Gmj7qOLk5A6tH-V9150xETzAdd6MQ/edit

Don't Change! Become!Today, I felt led to start with this poem I read the other day because it beautifully demonstrates that we don't always understand what God is doing. We think we are a mess, we feel like we are falling apart, we feel like God has abandoned us, and yet God is ALWAYS right there in the middle of it all! He knows exactly what He is doing and wants us to trust Him in the process. This poem gives us some insight into that process.  I feel it makes it a little easier to trust when we have a bit of understanding. This conversation is between someone and God.Me: Hey God.God: Hello.....Me: I'm falling apart. Can you put me back together?God: I would rather not.Me: Why?God: Because you aren't a puzzle.Me: What about all of the pieces of my life that are falling down onto the ground?God: Let them stay there for a while. They fell off for a reason. Take some time and decide if you need any of those pieces back.Me: You don't understand! I'm breaking down!God: No - you don't understand. You are breaking through. What you are feeling are just growing pains. You are shedding the things and the people in your life that are holding you back. You aren't falling apart. You are falling into place. Relax. Take some deep breaths and allow those things you don't need anymore to fall off of you. Quit holding onto the pieces that don't fit you anymore. Let them fall off. Let them go. Me: Once I start doing that, what will be left of me?God: Only the very best pieces of you.Me: I'm scared of changing.God: I keep telling you - YOU AREN'T CHANGING!! YOU ARE BECOMING!Me: Becoming who?God: Becoming who I created you to be! A person of light and love and charity and hope and courage and joy and mercy and grace and compassion. I made you for more than the shallow pieces you have decided to adorn yourself with that you cling to with such greed and fear. Let those things fall off of you. I love you! Don't change! ... Become! Become! Become who I made you to be. I'm going to keep telling you this until you remember it. Me: There goes another piece.God: Yep. Let it be. Me: So ... I'm not broken?God: Of course Not! - but you are breaking like the dawn. It's a new day. Become!!!~Author John Roedel I know many of you are struggling right now. Whether it is with health issues, money issues, or in the process of losing old friends and making new friends, I think this poem shows us that God can use these hard times to help us step into the person we are meant to be. The person He knows we are capable of being. There are several things I love about this poem. The first is the gentleness of God. He is so good. I think this poem demonstrates the love that God has for us. He didn't say no when she asked if God would put her back together. He said He would rather not. He then went on to explain why He felt that way. Notice how He didn't get short with her. He didn't seem irritated or annoyed with her. We often imagine God feels that way about us. We tell ourselves that He is tired of us coming and asking the same thing. We imagine He wondering why we can't seem to get it together already. If we are honest, we have felt that way about our loved ones before. God is not us. He doesn't have to wonder why we can't get it together. He knows. He made us. He knows everything we have ever done and everything we will ever do.I also love that God doesn't tell her never again to pick up the pieces that fell off. He tells her to take some time and decide whether she needs them. Maybe you are going through this shedding process right now. Maybe you are losing friends, workers, loved ones, or even material things. God isn't telling you that they are gone forever. He is saying take some time and see if you need them. Do they bring joy into your life? Do they make you a better person? Do they help you grow closer to the Lord? Are they helping you on your journey to heaven?If the answer to some of these questions are yes, maybe you can pick them back up again. Take the time to ask questions. Pay attention to the answers. Don't pick them back up again because it is hard without them. Don't pick them up again because it is easier with them or you miss them. It is normal to want to. When you are tempted to pick back up the ones that are not good for you, remember what the poem said, “What you are feeling are just growing pains. You are shedding the things and the people in your life that are holding you back. You aren't falling apart. You are falling into place. Relax. Take some deep breaths and allow those things you don't need anymore to fall off of you. Quit holding onto the pieces that don't fit you anymore. Let them fall off. Let them go.The last part that I want to draw your attention to is what the poem says about changing. Listen to that part again. “Me: Once I start doing that, what will be left of me?God: Only the very best pieces of you.Me: I'm scared of changing.God: I keep telling you - YOU AREN'T CHANGING!! YOU ARE BECOMING!Me: Becoming who?God: Becoming who I created you to be! A person of light and love and charity and hope and courage and joy and mercy and grace and compassion. I made you for more than the shallow pieces you have decided to adorn yourself with that you cling to with such greed and fear. Let those things fall off of you. I love you! Don't change! ... Become! Become! Become who I made you to be. I'm going to keep telling you this until you remember it.”Isn't that just like God? He keeps telling us something until we believe Him. And for most of us, He has to tell us a lot. God is telling you, yes you, right now that He is with you in this. He tells you that He sees you, not for who you think you are, but who you really are. He sees the you that He created you to be even if you aren't there yet. He knows your journey and isn't frustrated that you aren't there yet because He knows exactly when you will arrive there. He knows exactly what obstacles you are struggling with. We actually had a word or prophecy at my Thursday morning prayer group in June 2024.  God assured us, “I am there among your trials and your joys. I am the God who loves you, who cares. I am never displeased or impatient with you. I place my hope in you.”This message is not just for my prayer group. This is a message for all of His children. This is something I believe he really wants us to know. We get impatient with our children. We get disappointed with them. God is telling us He is not like that. He knows our innermost thoughts. He knows everything we are going through. He knows our hearts. He knows how badly we want to do the right thing, and yet we tend to do the wrong thing. This is not unique to you. That is all of us. If Paul, who is credited with writing about half of the New Testament books, can admit to this, we can be sure we all struggle with this problem. In Romans 7:19-20 Paul said, “For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I do. Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me.” God knows we are broken. He knows we struggle. He doesn't get disappointed. Instead, He celebrates every time we don't give in to temptation. Every time we mess up, we can bring that to God with the assurance that He welcomes us with open arms and celebrates because we came home instead of being upset we messed up.Dear Heavenly Father, we ask you to bless everyone listening to this episode. Dad, we thank you so much for loving us so much, for always being there for us, for helping us become who you created us to be, for your patience with us as we become that person, and for forgiving us again and again. You are so wonderful. You are our perfect father, and we are so grateful for all you do for us! Dad, could you give us the strength not to pick back up those pieces that have fallen that we don't need? It is hard to leave them there when our life seemed easier with them. Give us the strength to keep moving forward without them. Dad, could you also fill us up to the tipitey top with hope that things will be ok because it doesn't always feel like it will be. Help us to feel you right because of us. Maybe hold our hand as we walk side by side. That way, we know you are there. We love you, Dad, and we ask all of this in Jesus's mighty name; amen!!Thank you so much for joining me on this journey to walk boldly with Jesus. If this podcast has blessed you in some way, would you consider making a donation or sending it to others? Also, check out the link below for my mentoring group. Today's devotional is a small part of last week's mentoring session. Our topic for this month is Come As You Are. I would love to see your face on Zoom next Tuesday. I look forward to meeting you here again on Monday. Remember, Jesus loves you just as you are, and so do I! Have a blessed weekend!Today's Word from the Lord was received in June 2023 by a member of my Catholic Charismatic Prayer Group. If you have any questions about the prayer group, these words, or how to join us for a meeting, please email CatholicCharismaticPrayerGroup@gmail.com. Today's Word from the Lord is, “Continue to worship me each and every moment. Worship is your strength. I will give you the courage, wisdom, and power you need. I am with you until the end of your time and the beginning of our time together.” www.findingtruenorthcoaching.comCLICK HERE TO DONATECLICK HERE to sign up for Mentoring CLICK HERE to sign up for Daily "Word from the Lord" emailsCLICK HERE to sign up for free audio training about inviting Jesus into your daily lifeCLICK HERE to buy my book Total Trust in God's Safe Embrace

Tida Beattie (she/her) is a Thai-American end-of-life doula, grief support facilitator, and immigrant advocate. She creates radical spaces for immigrant families, their caregivers and their grievers to receive support addressing care, loss, death and grief. Tida knows the innate power within any immigrant family - perseverance, boldness, courage, resilience - and empowers them to be seen and heard so they advocate unapologetically for their needs and their human right to live and die with dignity, comfort, safety, and compassion.Find extensive show notes for this episode on our substack! If you haven't already, go ahead and subscribe to the podcast and sign up for our newsletter at www.wearemarigolde.com so you can be the first to know when new episodes drop.

Jason Feifer is the editor in chief of Entrepreneur Magazine, a nonstop optimism machine, and a widely recognized authority on business and how people navigate change. He is the author of the best-selling book Build For Tomorrow, a startup advisor, and host of the podcast Help Wanted and Problem Solvers. LinkedIn name him a “Top Voice in Entrepreneurship”.  Jason has also had decades-long career in national media, which included working as an editor at Men's Health, Fast Company, Maxim, and Boston magazine, and writing about business and technology for the Washington Post, Slate, New York Magazine, and others.    Questions We always like to give our guests an opportunity to just share in their own words, a little bit about their journey, and how they got from wherever they were to where they are today. So, could you share that with us? So, Build For Tomorrow, a book that focuses on startup advisory, and I just kind of want you to take a little time to share with our listeners, what the book is about? Who is the book targeted towards? And how do you believe the book has been helping others in their different careers and businesses? Now the book focuses on four phases of this change. The first is the panic, then you have the adaptation and the new normal and then that phase where we're never going back. So, could you just elaborate just a little bit, maybe give an example of each just to kind of cement that information across to our listeners. What are three-character traits that you found has to really be intrinsic to organizations or persons who lead organizations to help them really be customer centric? Now, could you share with our listeners, what's the one online resource, tool, website or app that you absolutely can't live without in your business? Can you also share with us what's the one thing that's going on in your life right now that you're really excited about? Either something you're working on to develop yourself or your people. Where can listeners find you online? Now, before we wrap our episodes up, we always like to ask our guests, do you have a quote or a saying that during times of adversity or challenge, you will tend to revert to this quote if for any reason you get derailed or you get off track, the quote kind of helps to get you back on track. Do you have one of those? Highlights  Jason's Journey Me: We always like to give our guests an opportunity to just share in their own words, a little bit about their journey, and how they got from where they were to where they are today. So, could you share that with us?   Jason shared that in brief, he started in media, he was a community newspaper reporter fresh out of college. Eventually, he got into magazines, he moved to New York City to work for Men's Health magazine, pretty different from Entrepreneur, and bounced around to a lot of different national magazines until he got to Entrepreneur.  And at first, he really treated Entrepreneur like a media project. His job was to do what he had done everywhere else, which was to be an editor and to tell great stories and to think about the media brand.  But over time, two things happen. Number one is that people because of the title, Editor in Chief of Entrepreneur Magazine, they started to treat him as an authority in entrepreneurship, which frankly, he was uncomfortable with for a while because his background was in media, until he came to realize that so much of business is not about the fundamentals of business, but it's really about the fundamentals of human thinking, and logic and reinvention, and the kinds of things that he had put himself through in his own career.  He thinks that we all have to recognize what our incredible skill is, and it's going to be different for everybody. His belief is that every human being has the same fundamental skill, and that is pattern recognition.  The difference among us is that some of us are better at recognizing different kinds of patterns, right. And so, his pattern is how people think and how people tell stories and how people understand the world. And he came to realize that by spending an immense amount of time with entrepreneurs, he was starting to absorb their way of thinking, starting to act like that, he's starting to launch his own businesses, starting to advise startups, and that he could lean into telling their stories, processing their insights in a way that would be incredibly useful for other entrepreneurs. And that has led him to the career that he has now.   About Jason's Book – Build For Tomorrow Me: So, I was lucky enough to actually read your article in Entrepreneur Magazine. I think it was the February issue that I purchased when I was travelling, how failure can feel good, and it really intrigued me. So, I reached out to you on LinkedIn, and graciously, you accepted my request and here we are today having you on our podcast. So, amazing. So, in your bio, it was also mentioned that you recently published a book that would have been September of 2022. So, Build For Tomorrow, a book that focuses on startup advisory, and I just kind of want you to take a little time to share with our listeners, what the book is about? Who is the book targeted towards? And how do you believe the book has been helping others in their different careers and businesses?   Jason shared that Build For Tomorrow is a book for anybody who's going through change, particularly going through any kind of career change though.  He's heard from a lot of readers that it applied well to personal changes as well. And the book is rooted in this philosophy that he's developed, which is that when he meets the most successful leaders and entrepreneurs, he finds that they have all developed a unique personal relationship with change, they understand who they are in times of change, they understand how change can impact them in a positive way. And that unique relationship with change enables them to grow and build in ways that others can't.  And he wanted to write a book that distilled the experiences and the wisdom of people who have successfully navigated change and help others with a roadmap for how to do it too. That is just simply the most important thing that any entrepreneur can do is to be adaptable, to recognize that the things that are changing around them are great opportunities, and then to understand how to systematically approach that and that's the book that he wrote. And he's had a really tremendous feedback from it, it's really gratifying.   Navigating Change – Understanding the Four Phases Me: Awesome! Now the book focuses on four phases of this change. The first is the panic, then you have the adaptation and the new normal and then that phase where we're never going back. So, could you just elaborate just a little bit, maybe give an example of each just to kind of cement that information across to our listeners.    Jason shared that he found that everybody goes through change in the same four phases listed them out panic, adaptation, new normal, wouldn't go back. Let's focus on panic and wouldn't go back. Panic, you know when you're panicked, you know when you're feeling that, you maybe are feeling that right now as he's talking because something massive has changed in your work, because you feel like your industry is shifting underneath you. Who knows. And the reason why we panic is because decades of psychological research have confirmed what's called loss aversion theory. Loss Aversion theory is the recognition that our human brains are programmed to protect against loss more than to seek gain.  So, when something changes in our lives and or in our work, the first thing that we do is we identify the things that we're comfortable and familiar with and then we start to think about how we're going to lose them, we're acquainting change with loss. And then we start to extrapolate it, well, because I've lost this thing, I'm going to lose that thing because I lost that thing, then I'm going to lose that other thing. Now, everything starts to feel like it's disappearing, now, we are panicking. But you can't do that forever, you can't panic forever, it's too exhausting.  Eventually, you start to look around and say, well, what do I have to work with. We get to adaptation. We start to build a new normal, a new foundation, something comfortable and familiar, again, a new normal. And then we get to wouldn't go back, that moment where we say I have something so new and valuable that I wouldn't want to go back to a time before I had it.  And he can give examples of that. But the pattern that he's seeing is that people are often forced into or sometimes are proactively making changes that force them to reconsider the fundamentals of the work that they do. And what they discover is that the way in which they were working before or the thing that they were doing, or the way that they were delivering value to their clients or their customers, that that wasn't the only way to do it. They thought that it was…..but it wasn't.  And in fact, it was a lesser version of a better way to do it that had never been explored because oftentimes people don't feel incentivized to scrap something that's working, or that sort of working, and take the risk of figuring out how to build something better. But when change comes along, when you are disrupted, when you're forced to react to the things that are shifting around you, you start to ask yourself some really fundamental questions about whether or not the things that you thought wouldn't work maybe are worth trying. And some of those are going to become the best opportunities for you going forward.   Me: All right, so change. I remember over the years, even going to university and starting my working life and starting a business, I've always heard the phrase that change is constant. And I haven't engaged in the book, I did download it on Audible, and I've started listening to it but I haven't completed it as yet. But what your four phases reminded me of was that change is constant. So, regardless of a pandemic emerging across the world, or kids coming into the play or getting new employees, like change is constant, we're constantly going through change in different aspects of our lives, so your phases definitely reminded me of that.   Jason stated that that's something that you can operationalize.  So, the idea that change is constant is a familiar one for many people. But he thinks often you hear that and you don't know what to do with it. Okay, change is constant, so what?  Here's the starting point. What would happen if you made decisions today based on the knowledge that the thing that you're working on now will have to change tomorrow?  What decisions would you make when you know that?  It starts to shift the way in which you work, you start to for example, do a thing that he calls change before you must where you start to make decisions that are hard today because they will benefit you when things change tomorrow.  A story that he'd love to tell, he won't tell it in full here, because it takes a while but divided in the book is of a brewer, a guy who started a Beer Brewery in Delaware named Sam, his company's called Dogfish. And he had a runaway hit product in a beer called 60-minute IPA, people love this beer, it was on track to become 75% to 80% of all sales of his company, and he artificially limited supply.  So, this thing was on track to become 75% to 80% of all sales at Dogfish, he capped that at 50% and that meant that people were furious at him, restaurants couldn't get his beer stocked, bars couldn't get his beer stock. And he says, “Sam, why would you do that? Why would you limit sales of your best-selling product?” And the answer that he gave me was because tastes change. And he knew that if he allowed this one beer to be a runaway hit so that everybody who ever went into a bar or a restaurant encountered just this beer of his, just this one 60-minute IPA. Well, then at some point IPAs, India Pale Ale, popular bitter style appeals is going to become less popular than it was at that one moment.  And if people's impressions of his company were shaped by one beer by an IPA, then he was going to be known as a hot IPA brand. And that's fine until tastes change, they will change at which point he won't be a hot IPA brand, he will be an old brand, he'll be a dead brand. And so, he wanted to do something that was painful today for the benefit of tomorrow, anticipating that change will come.  And the payoff for the story is amazing, which is that Sam limited sales of his best-selling beer when people would order it, he would try to get them to buy or stock or serve other styles of beer that he made. And as a result, he shaped perception of his company Dogfish not as a hot IPA brand, but as an innovative brand. And you know what you can do with an innovative brand is you can sell it for $300 Million Dollars, which is exactly what he did.  That's not something you could have done if he had just thought about how to profit today, how to only succeed based on what was working today. That's what it means to build the reality of constant change into the decisions that you make today, know that they will require change tomorrow. So, how can you anticipate that and be proactive about it.    Me: Brilliant. I love that story, Jason Awesome! Thank you so much for sharing.    Essential Character Traits for a Leader Me: Now, Jason, as Editor of Entrepreneur Magazine, I'm sure that you interface with a lot of CEOs and a lot of business leaders across different industries across the world. And so, I wanted based on your expert opinion and your exposure to persons of this nature, what do you believe are maybe three, it's a kind of a generic question. But I like to hear from the subject matter experts, three let's say character traits that you found has to really be intrinsic to organizations or persons who lead organizations to help them really be customer centric, because we're all about navigating the customer experience. And the reality is, if you don't have the right people doing the things that your customers want and creating value, you're not going to have a successful business. And if your customers don't feel like they're getting value, and they choose to do business with your competition or not do business with you at all, over time you will not have a successful business. So, it's twofold and you want that person who can navigate the personalities and navigate as you said, the change and the many different things that will come forth, what would you say are three-character traits that you think someone like that would need?   Jason shared that the first thing that comes to mind was a conversation that he had with this guy Matt, who at the time was the president of Reebok, Reebok the athletic wear company. And he told him (Jason) and this was the first time he'd heard this phrase then he started hearing it everywhere, which was customer obsession.  He said, “We're really obsessed, we're completely customer obsessed at Reebok and we want to understand them, and we don't want to understand their needs.” And he's heard that from a lot of people, but he had never heard the next thing that he told me, which was this metaphor that he uses, he says, “Look, we are in a moment in business where quality is assumed.”  Where if you let's say, wanted to start a scissor company making scissors, you could not advertise yourself as the sharpest scissors. Because every scissors is the sharpest scissors right? It's easy enough now to manufacture scissors that every scissors is the sharpest scissors.  So, if you want to be successful selling scissors, you can't lean on quality alone. Quality has to be table stakes, quality is what people take for granted, it's what they expect. The next place that you need to go is who exactly are you serving?  And how do you relate to them?  How do you tell a story that makes them proud to use your scissors, that makes them feel like when they use their scissors, they're exploring a version of themselves.  That's what it means to be customer obsessed is to understand the way in which your customers thinks to the degree to which you can tell your story in a way that relates directly to them.  Now, he's not telling you something that you don't know based on serving customers, but that scissors metaphor really stuck with him because he thinks a lot of people, their starting point is, well, because I make the best….. But if you take that away from yourself, and you say, “Being the best at whatever is not enough, because quality by itself doesn't sell, then what else am I doing here?”  He has a friend and he'll make this kind of point number two. Her name is Rochelle DeVos. And she is a Consumer Insights Research Specialist and is brilliant and understanding consumer psychology and has taught him a lot but the framework that she shared with him and again has really stuck with him the most is so much so that he actually has it on his desktop and he's looking at it right now to read from Rochelle's thing.  So, she says, “Look, if you want to understand how to relate to customers, then you need to fill out the following sentence. “When (context) I want solution so that (benefit) from the perspective of the consumer.” So, give you an example that she uses from a compression sock company, a company that makes kind of tight socks for people who have foot pain.  So, she says alright, when context I want solutions so that benefit. When context, when my feet hurt from standing all day, it's the context in which there's a need for a solution. I want a solution. I want to feel comfortable while still looking cute.  Her example is a company that makes compression socks for women. So, that's something that they are concerned about.  So, that benefit, so that I can do my job, be present for my family, enjoy my life while not standing out because of my foot pain.  What's so important about understanding this when context I want solutions so that benefit is that most entrepreneurs get stuck at solution.  They talk about the solution that they have, I've made compression socks, I've made compression socks for when your feet hurt.  But the real conversion, the real connection to the audience comes at the benefit. It comes at being able to articulate the value that your customer is going to get from using your solution.  Customers don't care about solutions, nobody wakes up in the morning and they're like, I want compression socks. What they think is I want to do my job and be present for my family and enjoy my life. That's what they want. So, how do you understand the benefits that they want enough that you can have a conversation with them that is benefit oriented, because that is where you win.  And Rochelle suggests the way to do this is, is to be constantly in touch with and survey your consumer so that you understand how they think and how they talk and the language that they use. And he finds that perspective to be incredibly powerful.  So, if we're making a list here so that you know number one he thinks is to be customer obsessed to the point where you recognize the quality itself is not going to connect to your customer.  Point number two is to be benefit oriented, to understand your consumer at a level that is deep enough that they will, that they can articulate the benefit of that consumer is seeking.  And if he had to come up with a third one, qualities of leaders who are customer centric. He'd say that there is a level of inefficiency that leaders are willing to tolerate, to learn from their customers.  A conversation that always stuck with me is a woman who had started, he can't remember the name of the company, but it was a paint company, she makes like, really cool paint colors, and it had been quite successful. And the company has grown, it's actually been acquired, she's still running it.  She has a large team, she still is in her brand's Instagram DM'S every day, corresponding with customers, if somebody DM'S that brand on Instagram, the CEO responds, and that is deeply inefficient.  But it has helped her stay in touch with her consumer in a way that she feels she would lose if she retracted from that and she just focused on all the operations of the business.  She wants to be in touch in a way that is inefficient. She has a tolerance for inefficiency, because that is the thing that is ultimately enabling her to understand her customers' needs today and where those shifts are tomorrow.   Me: Wow, that's amazing, a CEO that's in the DM'S. That's brilliant.   App, Website or Tool that Jason Absolutely Can't Live Without in His Business When asked about online resource that can't live without in his business, Jason shared that these days, he has been absolutely loving Fathom. So, you can get at www.fathom.video and Fathom is a AI note taking tool.  He has it in all of his calls and meetings now. And it just does a great job of contextually summarizing what was said, provides a transcript, it's not a perfect transcript, but it's close enough so that you can go back and find what somebody said, and then it's very searchable.  So, he found that to be an excellent way of passively collecting all the information that is being shared and discussed so that he has now a kind of catalogue of it and an easy way to go back and find it. He strongly suggests just having something like this running in the background of all your meetings now. So, again, it's just www.fathom.video is the company's website.   What Jason is Really Excited About Now! When asked about something he's excited about, Jason shared that he's been working on a newsletter for the last year, it's called One Thing Better. And the tagline that he has for it is, “One way each week. One way to be more successful and satisfied at work and build a career or company that you love.”  And each week is him sharing a strategy. Usually it's a story that articulates it, and then an exercise that people can use to think more adaptively, to be more open minded, to find opportunities in places you're not looking, to just feel better about work.  His wife refers to this newsletter as work therapy. And he's been just incredibly gratified by the response that he's getting to this newsletter, it pretty quickly grew to 50,000 subscribers.  And he just gets these emails from people telling him that they print out his emails, and they keep them on their desk to read regularly, or they forward it to their friends who are struggling with something.  And he's so excited to have created something that can have that kind of personal connection. If you want to check it out, it's www.onethingbetter.email, that's the web address. And he just thinks there's a lot of potential in exploring the newsletter space and in creating things that are both connecting with people on a business but personal level as well. That's a space he really like to live in. So, he's been excited to be building that and to see where it goes.    Me: So, we'll definitely have the link to the newsletter in the show notes of this episode. And I imagine once they subscribe, they can have access to previous newsletters that were published, correct? Yes, as soon as you visit the website, you will see the back catalogue.   Where Can We Find Jason Online Newsletter – www.onethingbetter.email  LinkedIn – Jason Feifer   Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Jason Uses When asked about a quote or saying that he tends to revert to, Jason shared that he's not big on motivational quotes, he doesn't get driven that way. But he's had a lot of people say really impressive things to him that stick with him.  One of them came from Malcolm Gladwell, who is a best-selling author and podcaster, and so on. And they were talking about work and so on and he had said this line to him which he loved, which was, “Self-conceptions are powerfully limiting.”  The idea being that if you have too narrow vision of yourself, then you will limit all the opportunities that could come your way, that don't fit that narrow definition of self. So, self-conceptions are powerfully limiting and that is something he thinks about a lot as he pursues things that takes him out of his earlier conceptions of himself.   Me: Thank you so much for sharing. All right, Jason, we will just want to extend our deepest gratitude to you for taking time out of your very busy schedule and hopping on this podcast with us today, talking about your best-selling book Build For Tomorrow, and the four phases that are connected to that book, also giving us three of the strong character traits that you believe will help leaders to really build an organization that will not just provide value for their customers, but also for their employees so it can be a win-win on both ends. And the insights, the knowledge, the experiences that you've shared with us today, the stories, they were just extremely insightful. And I just want to say thank you so much.   Please connect with us on Twitter @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest Links Build For Tomorrow by Jason Feifer   The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners  Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience.” The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty. This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately! This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others. Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!

Alison is joined by good friend Valentino Khan for a special guest host episode!Don't forget to rate & review on all of your favorite podcast apps! Post your comments on twitter @awonderland #RADIOWONDERLANDTracklist1. RADIO WONDERLAND OPENER2. Wavedash & Madeon - All Ur Luv (feat. Toro y Moi)3. demotapes - anywhere but here4. DJ Sliink - JUMP5. SLUMBERJACK - To Be Loved6. EBEN - Need you7. Tisoki & Godlands - u want me 2.08. Montell2099 x FrostTop - PRISM9. Nosphere CERES - 2ME10. Snavs - Hold On11. CONTROL FREAK - WE RUN THIS12. CHROMEBODIES - Stay feat. Lyrah13. Boombox Cartel, MKLA - Guide You (Signal)14. MeSo & Kurei - Dark Moon15. BICEP - CHROMA 001 HELIUM16. Vandelux - All I've Ever Known (Justin Jay Remix)17. ero808 - S.O.M.F18. IOVA - Vantablack19. MALIXE - Higher20. Brutalismus 3000 - Europaträume

Darby Vannier, with over 20 years of experience, is a seasoned leader adept at building and growing organizations. As President & CEO of Indispensable Leadership Group, he excels as an executive coach, consultant, speaker, and fractional COO, focusing on strategic and leadership development. He has led effective teams of more than a 100 employees, coached others into their own leadership positions, and created stability during challenging organizational transitions. Darby built his career on the philosophy that developing the right people is the key to success.  Learn more at www.beindispensable.com.   Questions ·      Even though we read a very short snippet of your journey, your little bio, we always like to give our guests an opportunity to share in their own words, a little bit about how you got from where you are to where you are today. ·      Your book titled, The Indispensable Leader. So, could you share with our listeners a little bit about that book? What was your intention when you wrote the book? What is the book about? Who is the book geared towards and kind of what was your sentiment when you were putting it all together? ·      Which role do you think is more effective, the manager's role or the leader's role? ·     Now in the book, you also talk about, which I found this part really fascinating that you should be curious, and you should engage curiosity. Explained to us a little bit about what you meant when you said, engage or encourage curiosity and being curious as a leader. ·      In the book, you also mentioned the whole conscious competence model. So, I'd love for you to kind of just explain that to the audience as well, the four phases and then the example that you gave to reinforce the concept. ·      Could you also share with our listeners, what is the one online resource, tool, website or app that you absolutely cannot live without in your business? ·    Can you also share with our listeners, maybe one or two books that you've read, it could be a book that you read recently, or even one that you read a very long time ago, but it had a great impact on you. ·      Can you also share with us what's the one thing in your life right now that you're really excited about? Either something you're working on to develop yourself or your people. ·      Now, before we wrap our episodes up, we always like to ask our guests, do you have a quote or a saying that during times of adversity or challenge you will tend to revert to this quote if for any reason you get derailed or you get off track, and the quote kind of helps to get you back on track. ·      Where can listeners find you online? Highlights Darby's Journey Me: Now Darby, even though we read a very short snippet of your journey, your little bio, we always like to give our guests an opportunity to share in their own words, a little bit about how you got from where you were to where you are today.   Darby shared that it's kind of a diverse career actually. So, he started off in retail, actually kind of in the entertainment industry, working as a manager at a 22-screen movie theatre, which is an interesting industry, especially back at that time when it was before digital movies and everything, and everything came in on natural celluloid film and everything.  So, yeah, 22 screen movie theatre, they would serve 1000's of people a day and that was an interesting experience getting started because it definitely was jumping right into that retail type environment, bringing in at that point, you're talking about most of their employees were high school or college aged students and, and so that's just a different level of team member that you're managing.  From there, he kind of jumped even further into retail, he actually became a store manager for Kinkos at the time, so the print shop at Kinkos, which is now FedEx Office, but at the time, it was still Kinkos. And at that time, all the Kinkos were 24-hour stores, like they never closed, didn't close on any holidays, didn't close any hours, nothing. So, that was definitely a learning experience he will say, managing a 24 hour a day business from that standpoint.  And he did that about 6 years and then moved into the non-profit world where he took over as CEO of an International Livestock Association, actually for alpacas of all things. And it's always an interesting story because he tells people when he got the interview for the job, he had to look up what an alpaca was because he had a general idea that it was like a llama, but he didn't exactly know what it was, so kind of entered into a whole new realm there. And he did that for about 11 years where he reported directly to a board, grew that organization, fixed a lot of things in that organization, and then grew that organization. And then they actually went through a merger process and merged with another national organization. And he took over as CEO of the newly created merged organization for that industry.  And then from there, he decided, he's kind of ready to be done with this non-profit thing, and he exited non-profit, went back into the for-profit world, joined a company that does leadership development, strategic planning, executive coaching, that sort of thing, because he's always been passionate about leadership, and did that for about 7 years.  And then last year decided he's going to break off and do his own things. He had a company established previously for some consulting and stuff that he had done and he just expanded that and started offering fractional leadership services and executive coaching on his own and have built that up from there. So, still working on that and that's kind of gets us up to date.    About Darby's Book – The Indispensable Leader Me: Now, as part of this journey, you are also an author and your book is titled, The Indispensable Leader. So, could you share with our listeners a little bit about that book, I do have some questions I want to ask specifically, but I kind of just want to hear in your own words, like what was your intention when you wrote the book? What is the book about? Who is the book geared towards and kind of what was your sentiment when you were putting it all together?   Darby shared that the book is really geared towards anybody, he wouldn't even say young leaders, he would say anybody who's really either starting out in leadership, leading other people or even if they have been leading people and they just want to have some experience and some knowledge to refine maybe their leadership style.  And it's kind of one of those things, he's kind of kept stories over the years throughout his career, because he's sure you have experienced throughout your career, you encounter interesting things, he'll just put it that way, some challenging things and some difficult things, and then some really exciting things.  So, he had lots of things that he has accumulated throughout his career that he felt like these were good learning experiences for him at the time, and had he had this information when he was starting out being a leader, it would have been highly beneficial.  So, in the midst of COVID, back in 2020, when everything kind of shut down, and we all had more time, because we were staying home and everything, he decided that seems like a good time to start writing a book. So, that's when he started on the book.  And the book really kind of goes down the path of taking this idea, he started off the book by basically saying, you hear people say this question….”Are you a manager? Or Are you a leader?”  And he really attacks that and he say, we're really looking at that wrong, because he thinks that's the wrong question. It assumes that people who would probably consider themselves managers of things, cannot be good leaders and that's not the case. He knew a fair number of people who definitely consider themselves managers, who are really spectacular leaders as well.  So, he kind of asked people to look at it a little bit differently and what he thinks people mean is actually more of are you more manager oriented? Or are you more visionary and entrepreneurial oriented?   And if you think about that as a spectrum, everybody exists somewhere on that spectrum. And you don't want to be at the far end of either end of that because you don't want to be too high visionary, that you just come up with a lot of ideas and nothing gets done. But you don't want to be too far managerial where you only care about checking off your list, and you don't really care why you're doing it.  So, what he basically asked people to do is think about this more like a Venn diagram, where you have two intersecting circles and let's take the best traits of both manager and visionary archetypes, and create the best possible leader that you can be because there's only a certain amount of things that you have access to yourself, there's only a certain amount of things that you can gain yourself.  So, let's find those best things and then let's try to release the bad things so the bad traits of those archetypes so that we don't fall into those ruts as well. And he kind of goes down that journey and he uses a lot of stories from his career to illustrate various points on leadership and talking about mentorship and some of those things as well so that people can gain that knowledge that he didn't necessarily have at the time as he was going through it.    The Effectiveness of the Manager's Role and the Leader's Role Me: So, I like the fact that you spoke about, are you a leader or a manager, but even outside of that you talk about in the book, just visionary leaders and I'm not sure what was the other term that you had outside of visionary? Managers.   So, can you just differentiate, I know you said, we look on it from a different perspective. But if we were to put it in terms of hierarchy, or better yet, in terms of in an organization, if you really want to motivate people, get them to do what you want them to do without having to literally stand up over them with a stick over their head saying, “If you don't do this, this is the sanction that's going to be enforced.” Which role do you think is more effective, the manager's role or the leader's role? Darby shared that he would actually say both are important and it's good to have a mix of both types of individuals within an organization.  Here's the reason why. So, people with managerial characteristics who fall more on that side of the spectrum are people who are very process oriented, they're usually very organized, they're the ones who are able to look at something and say, here's how it's going to get done. They can outline the 50 steps it's going to take to get there. They're about creating a list and checking off the things and getting stuff done. They're the ones that are talking about, what are we going to do? And how are we going to do it?  And sometimes they don't always care about the why they should and that's what he means by making sure that they try to pull in the best traits of both worlds. But those are the folks who are going to get stuff done for you. And they are the folks who can execute on a vision. So, basically, they can take a vision of a founder or a visionary and they can translate that vision into the action steps that it's going to take to accomplish it.  So, on the visionary side, you have to have visionaries as well, because the high visionary people, those are the folks who are generating lots of ideas, they're coming up with five or ten new ideas every day, they're usually very passionate about their ideas.  Oftentimes entrepreneurs are visionaries, because that is the type of individuals who are drawn to starting a business and taking that risk and everything. Because in their minds, when they think of an idea, when they envision something, it's done like we're there, and it is done. They're the ones that are more going to be talking about why are we doing something, like they want to be able to explain and show their passion for why is it that we want to accomplish whatever it is that they've come up with.  The difficulty you can run into with a visionary though is, is that they tend to move on very quickly, because if you get a very high visionary person, they only love generating new ideas, they don't want to talk about how to get there, they just want it done.  So, that visionary needs to have people who are more managerial in nature so that they can actually get stuff done. And in most companies, you almost have to have two top individuals who are one is one and one is the other.  That's why you often see a CEO whose high visionary and you see a COO who is the person who executes and those two individuals have to have a high amount of trust, because they will piss each other off and that's the bottom line.  Because what will happen is, is that COO who's more process oriented, who's the one going, “Okay, there's these 50 problems we have to solve before we can get there” they are going to be like saying slow down and pump the brakes, we got to back up here.  And the high visionary CEO is the one saying, “No, we got to move forward. And I want to do all these things, and everything.”  So, in order for their company to be highly successful, you almost have to have that mix. You see this with celebrity leaders he'll call him. So, people like Steve Jobs, for example, it's well known that he was very high visionary, brilliant guy, came up with amazing things, had very high expectations, very passionate about his industry.  But he learned very early on, he basically lost his company initially, before he came back many years later, he learned very early on that he needed to have people that could execute those ideas, because he just wanted to spend time on generating ideas, he needed an execution team as well.  So, eventually, he figured out he had to have individuals who worked with him that he trusted, that could execute those ideas that could challenge him and slow him down, he would on the opposite side of that push them forward. So, it's this weird balancing act. So, every company needs to have a good mix of both in order to be successful.   The Art of Being Curious as a Leader Me: Now in the book, you also talk about, which I found this part really fascinating that you should be curious, and you should engage curiosity. And curiosity sometimes I think can be misinterpreted, sometimes, for example, people will think that curiosity I find is being inquisitive, it's a similar adjective but inquisitive for some reason connotates, almost you being concerned or asking questions about things that should not concern you. But I do believe that that's how we learn right? About asking questions, exploring, experiencing. Explaine to us a little bit about what you meant when you said, engage or encourage curiosity and being curious as a leader.   Darby shared that it certainly can mean inquisitive and that is something that it can mean. But when he talks about being curious and when he coaches leaders and encourage them to be curious, what he's really trying to do is encourage folks to be lifelong learners, like he wants you to be curious about new things, go read books, go meet new people, go join a group that you wouldn't necessarily join because by gaining those additional experiences, and that additional knowledge, you're only going to grow as a leader. So, he's very big on making sure that folks that he coaches and himself, do not get stagnant.  And what that means is you have to be engaged, you have to be engaged in what you do. You have to be engaged in your industry, you have to be engaged in life. So, sometimes it's professional development, and you're joining an association or you're reading a book or whatever.  Sometimes it might be personal development where you're learning a new language or travelling to a country that you've never been to so that you can gain that experience because all of those things are important. They are going to make you a much, much better well-rounded leader, especially as he speaks to college students every now and then.  And as he speaks to college students, that's one thing that he talked to them about is gain a broad set of experiences because a lot of us really end up, in the United States, a lot of folks who go to college end up going to college nearby home, so, they're exposed to, yes, a new set of people, but it may be very similar to what they're used to. So, he encourages people to get out of your comfort zone and go do some other things because the more experiences you have, the better leader you're going to be.  Certainly, looking back at his career, he's sure as you look at your career, every single thing that he dealt with and went through, all of that past history really made him into the leader that he is today. And everything that he's doing today will make him into the leader that he is in five years, that's the bottom line.  So, you got to have that curiosity, if you don't, you're going to end up stagnant, you're not going to really grow as a leader, you're probably not getting promoted up very much. In most industries, you really do need to be curious so that you can continue to expand as well.   Me: Yes, I totally agree that you should definitely be open to learning and from everything that you do, it definitely adds to who you are today, as you said, what you're doing now is building for where you're going be five years from now.   Conscious Competence Model and the Four Phases Me: In the book, you also mentioned Darby, and I was exposed to this many years ago when I had done a leadership course myself, the whole Conscious Competence Model. And I liked the example that you gave with the baby. So, I'd love for you to kind of just explain that to the audience as well, the four phases and then the example that you gave to reinforce the concept.   Darby shared that this is something that really helps in coaching as well, because it's something that everybody goes through, but they don't really pinpoint that they're actually going through it.  So, the idea here is there's four phases of competence. And you really start off no matter what it is, in some new experience, in some new activity, you start a new job, you learn how to drive, whatever it is, you start off this idea as being unconsciously incompetent, which means you're incompetent at whatever you're doing, and you don't even know you're incompetent at it. And that's a big problem because then you're doing things and you don't even know you're doing them wrong.  So, the idea is, hopefully somebody will point out to you or you'll eventually move into the idea of conscious incompetence. And that's really where you're still incompetent at it, but you recognize that you're incompetent at it. So, you know, you're doing it wrong, it's kind of a situation, you know that you don't know something.  And then after that, the idea is that you move into conscious competence, which means that you're competent at it, but you have to think about it all the time, it's not become a habit, like you have to actually think about whatever the activity is. So, if you think about when you're learning to drive, this is a good thing. Or this is a thing we encounter, you have to constantly think about turning your turn signal on or stopping at the stop sign or stopping at the light or seeing the light turn yellow, or whatever that is, you are at that point consciously competent. So, you can do it, but you got to think about it all the time.  The last phase is really where you want to get to, especially with regard to leading people, you want to get to unconscious competence, where it is that you are competent at something and you don't have to constantly think about it, it just happens. So, this basically is the idea of it becomes habit.  There's actually an author named Charles Duhigg, he wrote a book called The Power of Habit: Why We Do What We Do in Life and Business, it's a spectacular book, but he talks about habit loops where your brain is set up so that it creates these habit loops out of things that you do regularly. And that's how you end up, if you've ever driven a car, and then you're driving along, and sometimes you're like, I don't remember the last five minutes, and it kind of freaks you out. That happens because of that, because your brain can handle that sort of thing. And basically, has created a habit loop.  It's the same reason when he left his position last year, and he was no longer going to the office on a regular basis, your habit loop changes. So, normally my habit loop for driving to the office was the same every day, he would do the exact same thing, the exact same route, whatever it was, well, on two different occasions, at the end of the year, last year, he was driving in the direction of where his old office was. And he looked up and pretty soon, like he's driving towards the office, he's going the whole wrong direction for where he was headed. But his brain engaged this habit loop that his brain thought, “Oh, you're doing the habit loop, we haven't done in a while to go to the office.” And then he ended up on the entirely wrong road and everything because he was going to the office. But that's the idea of unconscious competence that you want to get to is be able to create those habits so that things just happen for you on a regular basis.    Me: So, just want to remind our listeners, Darby's book is out, available on all platforms that you would want to purchase a book from, I would definitely recommend that you go and consume some of the great content he has in it. I haven't fully finished reading it, but the parts that I have been able to garner were really, really insightful. And he was able to share a bit of it with our listeners in the conversation today. So, definitely a must have read for 2024. Thank you so much for sharing Darby.   App, Website or Tool that Darby Absolutely Can't Live Without in His Business When asked about online resource that he cannot live without in his business, Darby shared that from his perspective, it's LinkedIn just because of the industry that he's in. It is definitely the one online resource he could not live without. There's a lot of things out there, of course, especially with social media, and everything nowadays, it really depends on the industry individuals are in but for him, LinkedIn is it and definitely those who are listening, you can find him on LinkedIn, he will connect with you just search for Darby Vannier, and he's happy to connect with you on LinkedIn as well.   Books that Have Had the Biggest Impact on Darby When asked about books that has had a great impact, Darby shared that there is lot of books that certainly he has utilized over the years. But there is one book that he has bought and given away more copies of this book than any other book.  And it's a book called Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can't Stop Talking, it's by a woman, her name is Susan Cain. And it's about kind of leading as an introvert. And the reason that he liked it is that he knows it doesn't always seem like it to individuals when he does these podcasts that he loves to speak to people and stuff like that. But he's a pretty big introvert. And it was the first book that he read that he was like somebody actually gets him.  So, she kind of talks about what it's like to be an introvert and how it's kind of a spectrum. And there are certainly individuals who are introverts who have no desire to speak to people, for example. Whereas, he loves that, if he gets a group of 1500 people to speak in front of great, he's happy. Now, he doesn't want to step down off the stage and talk to you one on one really, afterwards, he'll do it. And you won't necessarily know that he's uncomfortable. But that's not his comfort zone.  So, every introvert's a little bit different and it's more about how your energy is recharged. So, his energy is recharged by quiet time and being alone. He has no problem going on a vacation for a few days and being by himself the entire time and not talking to anybody, that would freak out an extrovert. But the reason he loves the book is and that he's given it to both introverts and extroverts. And the reason it's important for extroverts to read as well is you work with a lot of introverted individuals and this world we live in is catered to extroverts. And it can be incredibly difficult for those of us who are introverts to live in. And we are forced to adjust to you all.  So, he encourages extroverts to read this book as well, because you really learn a lot, especially as you lead and manage people, it will help you better manage individuals, it will also help you understand how to take advantage of utilizing the skills and the experience of introverts that maybe an extrovert doesn't necessarily have. So, from a professional standpoint, he always recommends, he also recommend it for individuals who are married, who have spouses who maybe are the opposite of them, because it will help you to totally understand your spouse a lot more as well.    What Darby is Really Excited About Now! When asked about something that he's excited about, Darby shared that he's still under a year on totally breaking out on his own and building his own company. So, building his business is what he's really passionate about right now. He's working on a new speaking topic regarding the impact that leaders make in the world and even over interactions that they might have considered insignificant. So, it's kind of like the ripple effect, so he's working on this talk and he's excited about that as well to be able to talk to folks about that.  And then just really working to help each one of his fractional leadership clients be as successful as possible. It is so amazing to be able to work with multiple clients and see individual companies continue to grow and scale and to have a part in that as well.   Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Darby Uses When asked about a quote or saying that he tends to revert to, Darby shared that he doesn't really have a quote, but he kind of have more of a philosophy and his philosophy with this. And he uses this again when he coaches other leaders too is, “Everything is temporary. And the one thing you have to remember is, is that everybody around you is going through their own stuff.” So, he always encourages people to be kind when you're dealing with other individuals, because you don't know what's going on in their lives, no matter how well you think you know them, you don't know everything that's going on. So, as he encounters adversity, he tends to kind of revert back to, “Okay, let's control what I can control. And then I need to let the other stuff go.”  He certainly has had multiple times in his career where he's had some very difficult situations that he's dealt with professionally. And that's what he's come back to is okay, can you control this particular thing that's happening? No. But you can control these other two aspects of it and you can make sure that you do those things really well.  And what he has found is if he does that, and he just remember that this is just one more piece of experience in his life and in his career, part of that past history that he said that makes us all who we are, if he can remember that, then it's usually easy to get through those things. Not that it's not a challenge, still can be a challenge, still can be stressful, but it does definitely help you as you move through those challenging times.   Me: All right. So, we will definitely have that summary of what you shared with us in terms of that, quote, or that thought, that helps to get you from one stage to the next if for any reason you feel derailed.    Where Can We Find Darby Online Website – www.beindispensable.com Facebook - Indispensable Leadership Group LinkedIn – Indispensable Leadership Group LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/darbyvannier/    Me: Now Darby, thank you so much for hopping on our podcast today and sharing all these great insights from your book, as well as all of the experience and exposures that you've had over the years that have crafted the person that you are today and the invaluable knowledge and experience and coaching that you've been able to offer to your clients. And so, the information that you shared with us was extremely valuable. The examples that you gave, the characteristics and the comparison as it relates to having a bit of both is critical to the organization success as a manager and a leader was really, really, really insightful and I just want to extend a great amount of gratitude to you for taking time to share with us today.    Please connect with us on Twitter @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest Links •     The Indispensable Leader: How to Use Your Inner Manager and Visionary to Achieve Leadership Success by Darby Vannier •     The Power of Habit: Why We Do What We Do in Life and Business by Charles Duhigg •     Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can't Stop Talking Susan Cain   The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners  Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience.” The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty. This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately! This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others. Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience.

Cynthia Kay founded Cynthia Kay and Company media production which produces high-quality communications for organizations from Fortune Global 100 to small business. A graduate of Michigan State University, Kay holds a master's in communications from Western Michigan University.  Cynthia Kay is a passionate spokesperson for small business. For more than 35 years, she has spent significant time speaking to, teaching and coaching small-business owners while running her own award-winning company. She is the Past Board Chair of the National Small Business Association (NSBA).  Cynthia and the company have been honoured with many awards including many Tellys and Woman Owned Small Business Supplier of the Year from Siemens in 2018. She has been named one of West Michigan's 50 Most Influential Women five times, and is the recipient of over 30 broadcast awards from UPI, AP, and other news organizations.  CK & CO Cynthia has authored several books. Her newest book, Small Business, Big Success: How to Beat the Odds and Grow a Great Business (Career Press 2024) is available for pre-order and will be on May 6, 2024. She writes for Entrepreneur.com, has been featured in Time Magazine, Entrepreneur Magazine's Ask the Expert and on NPR.   Questions ·    We always like to give the guests an opportunity to share in their own words, a little bit about your journey, how you got from where you were to where you are today. Could you share that with us? · Your book, Small Business. Big Success: How to Beat the Odds and Grow a Great Business. Can you share with our listeners a little bit about that book that you have coming up? And maybe three overarching themes or tenets that the book represents. ·    You've been in business for 35 years, so you've been through all phases of a business over 35 years, not to mention the different experiences that your businesses would have had as it relates to the different travesties that the world had gone through. If you were to pick, let's say, one characteristic that you believe was critical for you to ride the waves over all those years to the point where you are today, what do you believe that would be? ·     Based on your experience, what would you say are maybe five common mistakes that you find small businesses tend to get themselves into? And if you could give maybe a recommendation for each as to how they could prevent themselves from getting trapped into that common mistake? ·  Now, Cynthia, can you also share with our listeners, what's the one online resource, tool, website or app that you absolutely can't live without in your business? ·  Now, can you also share with our listeners, maybe one or two books that you have read, it could be a book that you read a very long time ago or even one that you read recently, but it has had a great impact on you. ·   Where can listeners find you online? ·  Now, before we wrap our episodes up, we always like to ask our guests, do you have a quote or a saying that during times of adversity or challenge, you'll tend to revert to this quote if for any reason you get derailed or there's an obstacle that comes in your way, the quote kind of helps to get you back on track.   Highlights Cynthia's Journey Me: Now, even though we ask our guests to provide us with a bio, which you did, amazingly, thank you so much. And we do read the bio at the beginning of the show so the audience has a good idea of who we're interviewing and what they're about. We always like to give the guests an opportunity to share in their own words, a little bit about your journey, how you got from where you were to where you are today. Could you share that with us?   Cynthia shared that for her, it's an interesting story, she hoped it will be for the viewers as well. She actually started her career in broadcasting and was working in the TV business for about 13 and a half years. But she always had in the back of her mind that she wanted to own her own business. And she grew up in a family owned business so she saw her dad and how he worked and how much he loved what he did and his customers.  And so, one day when she got fired and her dad always said, “Honey, you're no one till someone fires you.” She decided that rather than go and work for another television station and she had some opportunities to do that, she decided she wanted to bet on herself. And so, that's how she started her business.   About Cynthia's Book – Small Business. Big Success: How to Beat the Odds and Grow a Great Business Me: Now, you have a new book that's being published in a few months, it's called Small Business. Big Success: How to Beat the Odds and Grow a Great Business. Can you share with our listeners a little bit about that book that you have coming up? And maybe three overarching themes or tenets that the book represents.    Cynthia shared that she really believes that the best way for people to learn about business is by storytelling. And so, the book has not only her story, but stories of entrepreneurs and experts from all over the country. And frankly, that's what makes it so interesting because we all have stories to tell. But she's segmented the book into stages and it is starting up, because the challenges at starting up are very different than the challenges for those who are in second stage or mature businesses.  And then she looks at success at operations because she thinks many small businesses, that's a place that's very difficult for them is to really figure out how to become operationally excellent.  And then success at growth because if we don't grow, we're actually going backwards.  And then finally success at stepping out. And someone asked her, “Well, why cover such a broad expanse in one business? Why not just talk out starting up or stepping out?”  And she said, when you take a look at the whole lifecycle of a business, if you understand that, especially at starting up, and you think about where do you want to end up? Are you growing a lifestyle business? Or are you growing a business to sell it?  If you are in a growth phase, what do you need to really think about? Sometimes it's digging back into what made you successful at start-up and visioning the future? And then also thinking about what kind of legacy do you want?  So, for her covering that expanse and she's been in business now over 35 years, so she's been through many phases of the business. She thinks has been reflective for her to kind of look at each one of those.  And there's lots of things that she talks about, she's talked about customers, it's so important that we understand customers and customer services, it doesn't matter if you run a retail operation or a manufacturing plant or a technology company. But she thinks understanding customers, that's a big overarching theme.  Communications is huge, because it impacts so much of our business, and then also leadership, what does it take to lead a successful enterprise?   One Characteristic That Entrepreneurs Need to Survive Downturns in an Economy Me: So, lots of very critical components that you mentioned in the book to running a business. Now, I know you told us about the overarching themes that the book represents and in your summary just now, you mentioned that you've been in business for 35 years, so you've been through, if not all, well, definitely all phases of a business over 35 years I'm sure. Not to mention the different experiences that your businesses would have had as it relates to the different travesties that the world had gone through, so the pandemic and before that the recession in 2008. So, you'd have had different experiences that different economies would have experienced, that the world experienced. If you were to pick, let's say, one characteristic that you believe was critical for you to ride the waves over all those years to the point where you are today, what do you believe that would be?   Cynthia stated that that one is easy for her. And she thinks this is something that people don't think about a lot, but it's passion. You have to have passion for what you do. If you don't have passion, you cannot survive all of the challenges that you have. She has experienced at least two downturns in the economy and COVID, obviously was huge. But if you don't love what you do, if you don't get up every day, and say, “Wow, what can I do today to make this business better? What can I do today to serve my customers?”  If you don't have that passion, it's easy to get discouraged and she thinks it's easy to give up. And frankly, the businesses that she sees that kind of wither away, it's because they've lost that passion for what they do, it becomes routine and ordinary and in this world, especially in the world of business, you can't survive if it's just same old, same old, you must consistently innovate and to do that, you have to have passion.   Me: So, passion is a number one thing that was able to carry you through. Fantastic, thank you for sharing Cynthia.   Common Mistakes that Small Businesses Make and How to Avoid Them   Me: Now, Cynthia, I'm sure in running a business, there are some common mistakes that sometimes business owners will make, right, regardless of the type of business you're in, whether it's product based or service based. Based on your experience, what would you say are maybe five common mistakes that you find small businesses tend to get themselves into? And if you could give maybe a recommendation for each as to how they could prevent themselves from getting trapped into that common mistake?   Cynthia shared that she thinks the first one is not doing their homework. She thinks so often people believe they have a great idea or a great product, but they're somewhat clouded by their own bubble, by their own world. And so, one of the things that she will tell you is not doing your homework, not going out and saying to someone, not just do you like my idea, or do you like my product? But will you pay for it? So, that's the first one. And the way that you really avoid that common mistake, quite frankly, is to do your research, and to go out and not be afraid to ask the questions. And sometimes she will tell you, she has put in place some efforts that she had to abandon because while she thought it was a great idea, she didn't maybe do enough of the homework to really understand if it was going to be successful. So, that'd be the first one.   And then the second one is financially, can you really withstand the pressures that it takes. So, when she started her business, the first six months, she didn't even take a salary. And she thinks that's very common for a lot of business owners is that they invest in their business. So, are you able to financially withstand what it takes to be able to get through those first really tough years? So, do you have the financing? Do you have the capital? Can you withstand that interim start-up period where you really need to make sure that you have a lot of cushion maybe is the right way to say it.   The third mistake that a lot of business owners make is that they take whatever customer comes to the door and she made that mistake when she first got started, she was so concerned about is she going to be able to pay the rent, that she maybe took customers that she shouldn't have taken because they didn't align with the goal and the core products and values that they had and that's a hard one is to say no to a customer. But if you're getting customers in the door that are taking up your time and taking up your energy and not going to help you move forward, then she thinks that that's a big mistake. And as a result of having made that mistake after she was in business for a while, she kind of had to send customers away and that's very difficult. So, having a good idea of who that ideal customer is and really knowing that.  She thinks communication is a big one. Frankly, she thinks communication is something that business owners don't really spend enough time on, they believe if they have a great product or a great service, that's enough and it's not. You have to be able to articulate your value, you have to be able to communicate that value to your employees because that's so critical because it's not just you, unless you're going to be a solopreneur, which is fine. But if you're going to build an organization, you have to be able to communicate with your employees, you have to be able to educate them, have them understand what the value is of the business, and then being able to communicate to customers. The number one complaint that customers have today is sometimes they lack the communication from businesses, even if it's simply, “I got your phone call and I got your order, and we'll get back to you.” But being able to communicate and being able to articulate is a big one.  And then she thinks the other mistake that she thinks a lot of small businesses make is they don't build an external team that can help them, because as a business owner, you're an expert in what you do, but that doesn't mean that you're an expert in all things. And so, building that really critical team of outside resources, she likes to say who can keep you out of trouble because sometimes you get into trouble because you don't know enough. So, having that critical team of people that you can trust and can go to, she thinks that's it. So, those will be she thinks the five things that she would say are really important.    App, Website or Tool that Cynthia Absolutely Can't Live Without in Her Business When asked about online resource that she can't live without in her business, Cynthia shared that when she saw that question, she was like, there's lots of things she can't live without. Cynthia estimated that because of the business that she's in, they have a tool, it's called Function Point that coordinates all of the efforts. In media production and in communications, consulting, there are so many pieces of every single job that all have to align and being able to track where something is and being able to understand who on the team is doing what, it's a communications tool.  Now, that may be one that it's for creative agencies, but there are other tools. SharePoint, she thinks is a fabulous tool for keeping people really focused. So much of what we do today, there are so many pieces of information and keeping it organized she thinks is the biggest nightmare or it can be the biggest advantage. So, some sort of a communication tool that allows you to track and be able to measure where you are is really critical.    Books that Have Had the Biggest Impact on Cynthia When asked about books that has a great impact, Cynthia shared that there are two that she really loves. And the one is Good to Great: Why Some Companies Make the Leap and Others Don't by Jim Collins and she's read that book maybe twice and should go back and read it again. But the reason that she loves that book is that she thinks there is such a difference in just being good and really having a company and growing a company that is excellent. And she thinks today good is just the baseline, everyone expects if you're in business that you're good, but can you be great? So, that's one.  The other one that she really likes is The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People: Powerful Lessons in Personal Change by Stephen Covey. We as people sometimes think we're effective, but we might be missing something. So, those are two that she really loves. And she'll be honest, she hasn't been doing a lot of reading lately, mostly because she's been doing a lot of writing, so, she's been reading her own book. But she does have a list of other books coming up that she would like to read.  And then there's one other one that over the years she's kind of steered people to and it's called Leaders Eat Last: Why Some Teams Pull Together and Other Don't by Simon Sinek. And she thinks so much of the success of organizations and businesses really rests with how effective is the leader, because the business takes on sort of the personality of the leader. So, that's a book that she always recommend because she thinks this idea of servant leadership is one that really can catapult an organization ahead.    Where Can We Find Cynthia Online  LinkedIn – Cynthia Kay Website – www.cynthiakaybiz.com Website – www.thinkck.com    Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Cynthia Uses When asked about a quote or saying that she tends to revert to, Cynthia stated that it's interesting, there are so many quotes that she loves, but her father was a huge influence in her life and there's a quote that her dad always used to say when she faced adversity, and she was struggling and didn't know what to do and he would always say, “Do what's in your heart.” And she really believes that if you look inside, you often know the answer. And so, that's one that she always remember, her dad always said, do what's in your heart.  And his second favourite one was, “They can't pay you enough money to do a job you don't love.” And so, that's her second one.    Me: I love it. Is the second one attributed from your dad as well? Cynthia said absolutely. He was a wonderful businessman. He ran a small business with his two brothers and so much of what she thinks, they learned, they learned by osmosis. She learned a lot about business by watching her dad.  Me: That's fantastic. So, thank you so much for sharing those two quotes, we'll definitely have them in the show notes of this episode.    As we wrap up our episode, we would just like to extend our deepest level of gratitude to you for taking time out of your very busy schedule and coming on our podcast today and sharing about your journey, a little bit about your new book that will be released in May of this year. For those of our listeners that would love to tap into that resource, we'll have Cynthia's contact information in the links for the show notes of the episode so you can definitely follow along and just be abreast of when the book is going to be released and the different platforms that it will be available on so thank you again, Cynthia for coming on and we wish you all the very best.    Please connect with us on Twitter @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest   Links •    Good to Great: Why Some Companies Make the Leap and Others Don't by Jim Collins •     The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People: Powerful Lessons in Personal Change by Stephen Covey •     Leaders Eat Last: Why Some Teams Pull Together and Others Don't by Simon Sinek   The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners  Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience.” The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty. This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately! This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others. Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!

Len Covello, Chief Technology Officer (CTO) at Engage People, leading the long-term technology vision of the company and is responsible for driving continued innovation in the loyalty sector. He is an innovator in the technology space and a thought leader in loyalty.  Len started his first technology company at the age of 18 and most recently was the Director and Chief Technology Officer with Access (formerly LRG Rewards). His passion is web-based application design and development across a wide variety of business applications, particularly in user interfaces and process automation.  He's an active member of Forbes Technology Council, a cornerstone of the Engage People executive team and member of the board of directors.   Questions ·     We always like to give our guests an opportunity to share in their own words, a little bit about their journey, could you tell our listeners how it is that you got to where you are today? ·      Now, could you tell our listeners just a little bit about what Engage People does? ·      What are your views, and you can tell me, since you're a loyalty expert in terms of like cross exchanges. So, let's say for example, you have loyalty points from an airline, but you're able to use those loyalty points from the airline at a hotel, or maybe for an attraction that you'd like to visit. Have you seen those kinds of activities happening, is that something you see happening in the future? ·      If you are to give our listeners maybe one or two trends that you see emerging in 2024 and beyond as it relates to loyalty and rewards and using it as a currency on its own, what would those be? ·      Now could you also share with us what's the one online resource, tool, website or app that you absolutely can't live without in your business? ·      And could you also share with our listeners maybe one or two books that you've read, it could be a book that you read recently, or even one that you read a very long time ago, but it has had a great impact on you. ·      Can you also share with our listeners what's the one thing that's going on in your life right now that you're really excited about? Either something you're working on to develop yourself or your people. ·      Now, if you could choose one word or one attribute or characteristic that you believe a leader needs to have in order to have a team that is intrinsically motivated? ·      Where can listeners find you online? ·      Now, before we wrap our episodes up, we always like to ask our guests, do you have a quote or saying that during times of adversity or challenge, you'll tend to revert to this quote if for any reason you get derailed or you get off track, the quote kind of helps to get you back on track. Highlights Len's Journey  Me: We always like to give our guests an opportunity to share in their own words, a little bit about their journey, could you tell our listeners how it is that you got to where you are today?   Len shared that it's one of those stories, he doesn't think it's a straight line to get here, when he was quite young, as mentioned that 18 he definitely enjoyed working with computers, building applications. But he was always tied to the user experience, he was always tied to that ability to make things run a little more efficiently. So, he started building just web applications, very crude back in the day, so, internet was still pretty young. And started building these solutions for different organizations and eventually met with a company that was in the loyalty space.  And they provided basically legacy loyalty, so, for those of us that remember you used to get a catalogue sent to your house, and it had some items that you could redeem from, and you'd either phone in or potentially fill out a form. And they talked with that organization about all the things they could bring there and that's what really started the precursor to engage was adding first solutions for the redemption and the fulfilment and then understanding more about the space and started as two of them and eventually, they ended up acquiring that company in the loyalty space that became their focus and turned into 150 plus people organization.    About Len's Company - Engage People Me: Now, could you tell our listeners just a little bit about what Engage People does? I know you mentioned that it's focused on loyalty but kind of give us a synopsis of what problem are you really solving for customers?   Len shared that they're a technology company at heart, loyalty just happens to be the discipline they play in. What they really like to do is innovate and impact an industry that they play in, and what they mean by that is in loyalty, it's been a pretty legacy solution based business he'd say where a lot of the advancements that they see in other industries didn't make its way to loyalty. So, what they do at Engage is they provide solutions to help organizations run loyalty programmes, and that can be on the earn side, so when you're a member of a programme and you swipe that credit card or tap that credit card, you earn some points.  They provide the solutions that a lot of financial institutions use to do that. But he thinks the really exciting thing about what they do is on the redemption side, so when a customer looks to use their points, and really a lot of advancements come there, and one of the things they do today is they're one of the leaders in the pay with point space. And what that means for their customer is, instead of ordering from that website, or that catalogue, you can now go on to your favourite ecommerce store or pull up to a BP station, tap that card and use your points as a form of currency, so Engage really services the loyalty industry in those two spaces. But again, the exciting part is the pay with points.   Me: And what companies and industries do you think should consider implementing loyalty points as an alternative payment choice?   Len shared that really anyone that's taking any form of payment today, over the past few years they've seen some alternative forms of payments, whether it's different cryptocurrencies or even the BNPL solutions that exist, a loyalty currency is a funded currency, there's no risk with it, it's got that value, it's funded.   So, any company running a loyalty programme, whether it be a bank, a hotel chain, an airline, they're funding that currency, so if you're looking to accept payments, what you're really doing is exposing your members or your customers to use what effectively is a $200 billion a year currency that gets issued each year, so significant amount of money. So, he doesn't think there's really a specific industry that should accept this, it's all industries that are accepting any form of payment.    Me: And based on your experience in this space Len, could you give our listeners an example of, let's say an industry that the loyalty points works in, and that you found it to be extremely successful and of high value?    Len shared that one of the things that surprised them, so they do this today for companies like Amazon, so the everyday item that you're looking to make that purchase, you can now use your points to check out.  What they were really surprised with and pleasantly surprised is they brought this to the gas space, or the petrol space, depending what area of the world you live in. So, you can go and fill up your vehicle and tap your points and it presents a real time offer to the customer to use their points and they were amazed at the uptake on that because loyalty typically, people think of it as an aspirational type usage of points.  But what they've seen with the pandemic and even the way the economy is looking these days is a lot of people are using this to help subsidise just the increased cost of living or those everyday expenses.  So, it's been a pleasant surprise that through their technology, they allow customers now to offset those everyday expenses that they have. So, he would say those small items, purchasing a coffee that you would every day, and now being able to use your points, that's where they've seen really an incredible impact.   Me: And just listening to you speak, I'm here thinking too with loyalty points, well, at least for the ones that I redeem, for example, at my supermarket, I feel like I patronise this business on a weekly basis, monthly basis consistently and if I'm able to even get two grocery bills paid for fully with loyalty, I almost feel like I'm getting back some investment from doing business with this company over extended and consistent period of time. Is that pretty much how they sell the whole loyalty experience? Because what I found as well is a lot of companies sign you up for loyalty rewards, but then if you don't remember to ask, okay, so can these rewards be redeemed? How does it work? Typically, it just sits there and you don't even know you have points and then you heard they expired.   Len stated that that's really what they're seeing a lot of change in is, especially the programmes you don't interact with every day, like you mentioned, you're visiting that grocery store frequently and that relationship is what loyalty is, it's really a relationship, to use your words, you're going to patronise them by continuously shopping there, and they're going to give you something in return for that.  And that's where the currency really comes into play, it's letting you know that they value you coming back to that location, time and time again, and they want to give you something back, and really treat you a little different than any other customer that would just walk through the door.    Loyalty Programmes – Cross Exchanges Me: What are your views, and you can tell me, since you're a loyalty expert in terms of like cross exchanges. So, let's say for example, you have loyalty points from an airline, but you're able to use those loyalty points from the airline at a hotel, or maybe for an attraction that you'd like to visit. Have you seen those kinds of activities happening, is that something you see happening in the future?   Len shared that it's already starting to pick up and so they're from Toronto, so Canadian organization, there was this thing that really only worked in the country for some reason, which were coalition programmes where a lot of different programmes came together, use a common currency.  And they're seeing a lot more of what you just mentioned, where companies are comfortable with themselves. So, they're saying, “We know you're going to keep interacting and shopping with us, and we're going to issue that currency, but we're going to let you spend it in other places, because you're still seeing the value in where you earn those points.”  So, if he's comfortable with the offer he's providing, and he's confident that he's got a relationship with you, then it really is advantageous to tell you, you know what, you can use those points to book a hotel, even though you earn those points from a grocery store or from an airline. And then when you stay at that hotel, you'll reflect back and say, you know, this trip was covered, either in part or the whole thing was covered, because I shopped with insert any company you want here, whether it was Sephora  or was Hilton, it doesn't matter.   Me: And you would remain loyal to the company that allowed you that affordability to have that vacation, as you mentioned, hotel room paid for because of your purchases with them.  Len agreed absolutely.   In Terms of Loyalty and Rewards – Trends Emerging in 2024 Me: So, in terms of future trends, I know AI I'm sure has some impact on the whole loyalty programmes that are implemented, but as a loyalty expert and seeing that you've been in the space for so long. If you were to give our listeners maybe one or two trends that you see emerging in 2024 and beyond as it relates to loyalty and rewards and using it as a currency on its own, what would those be?   Len shared that he thinks the first one is what Yanique mentioned, it's the ubiquitous nature of those points. So, they're going to be free for you to use and more and more locations and a lot more cross promotions with brands. So, they're going to be very comfortable in their partnerships, they're going to be very forthright with who they want to partner with and you'll be able to fly in on an airline, take a ride share to a restaurant, and that ecosystem will exist to use your points all together. So, he thinks that's the first thing we're really going to see a lot of.   And he thinks some of the things they've talked about in this industry for years, the personalization for a customer that really wants one experience. Although the technology has been there, it's been hard to manage and implement or just kind of onerous, and bringing tools like machine learning and AI into that space will assist with that. So, he doesn't think it'll be anything ground-breaking, like people tend to predict out there, but a lot of utilization of that technology to execute some strategies that have existed for some time.   App, Website or Tool that Len Absolutely Can't Live Without in His Business When asked about online resource that he can't live without in his business, Len shared that he thinks for them, it's Slack. Just that ability to message. So, personally, he uses a tool called Trello a lot and it helps him organize his thoughts, he's a pretty visualized person. But he would say the tool that's probably open the most on the screen on his devices is Slack and it's that ability to message people, especially as they move to a remote work environment, it's really kind of an invaluable tool for them.    Books that Have Had the Biggest Impact on Len When asked about books that have had a great impact, Len shared that they fall into two categories of things that really interests him. So, he likes a lot of documentaries, biographies, things of that nature. And like mentioned early on, he kind of fell into this space, it was something he enjoyed doing and eventually got into a leadership position. So, anything he can read about understanding how to be a better leader, how to run an organization is really big for him.  So, anytime he gets a chance, anything he can read or listen to from Simon Sinek is just helpful for him on how to be that that servant leader, there's a great book that really apply to their organization as they grew from Ben Horowitz, which was The Hard Thing About Hard Things: Building a Business When There Are No Easy Answers. And that taught him some great lessons and exposed the fact that growing a business isn't easy, it's not always a straight line and goes in a perfect direction. So, those are the types of books that really helped him on the leadership side.  And then on the flip side, the artistic side of things is he really admire people that have done some pretty incredible things in whether it's the user experience space, the artistic space, it could be music. So, just recently, he read a book about Jony Ive from Apple, who is the genius behind Apple's greatest products, and he found that to be really inspiring for him.    What Len is Really Excited About Now! When asked about something that he's really excited about, Len stated that that's great question. They've been fortunate to work with some pretty large global organizations.  So, right now there's some things he can't share the details, but things that are transforming kind of the payment ecosystem with some of the largest brands in the world, that's really exciting.  It's that opportunity to be truly impactful and to do something differently. So, on the work side, that's something he looks forward to each day, and they've got a team, product and innovation team that really drives a lot of that change here. So, it's exciting for him to actually interact with their team day to day, they've got a fantastic team and working specifically on this project that he's mentioning, just inspires him.   One Attribute | Characteristic a Leader MUST HAVE to Motivate Their Team  Me: Now, if you could choose one word or one attribute or characteristic that you believe a leader needs to have in order to have a team that is intrinsically motivated? So, they're not inspired by money, you don't have to dangle things in front of them to get them to do the work it but they're intrinsically motivated because as a leader, you inspire them. What would be that one word or that one trait or characteristic?   Len shared that the word for him is Trust. The people they have at Engage really drive the organisation, he always say that on any of these podcasts or interviews to anyone that's listening is they're really driven by their people.  And he thinks the thing that they appreciate the most about the leadership and just others in the organization is that level of trust. So, that's not always the case, organizations have people that come and go that don't necessarily exude those characteristics or those traits. But he would say as a leader, if your team can trust you, they know you have their best interests at heart, and they know you're looking out for them, then they're willing to do the same for you.   Me: Alright, awesome. So, trust, I like it.   Where Can We Find Len Online Website - www.engagepeople.com LinkedIn – Len Covello Twitter/ X – Len Covello   Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Len Uses  When asked about a quote or saying that he tends to revert to, Len shared that he doesn't know that there's a quote, that's a positive quote, they have some funny ones, sometimes probably not appropriate. But he doesn't go to a quote, he tends to go to moments in time that he thought were really beneficial to him.  So, there's always a point in his career and he remembers it vividly to this day where now a mentor to him saw him at a point where he was still at he'll call it immature in his business acumen and sat him down and taught him how to be more measured.  And he thinks that's the best thing you can do that a lot of the leaders that he admires have the ability to not get too up on the highs and not get too low on the lows, and just be measured with things and have that opportunity to take a step back, really evaluate the situation and understand that you'll get through it.   Me: All right, awesome. Well, thank you so much Len for taking time out of your very busy day and hopping on this podcast with us and sharing all of the great insights as it relates to loyalty and having it as a viable currency that you can use in an organization. And also looking at some of the emerging trends that we can look forward to in terms of loyalty rewards and points being something that can be more acceptable across the board regardless of where you are, what part of the region you are in the world that customers can just have greater access to benefits from organizations that they love, organizations that they patronise consistently, organizations that have been a part of their lives for so many years, that they can actually have some value out of it through having it as a viable payment option and getting back something in return. It was a great conversation. Thank you so much.   Please connect with us on Twitter @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest   Links •     The Hard Thing About Hard Things: Building a Business When There Are No Easy Answers by Ben Horowitz   The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners  Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience.” The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty. This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately! This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others. Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!

Dave Singer is Verint's Global Vice President, Go-To-Market Strategy. Singer is responsible for driving the GTM strategy for Verint's Workforce Engagement solutions, and the Verint industry leading Open CCaaS Platform. The strategy is based on developing innovative messaging and offerings both partner and direct that drive customer centric differentiation and aligned value with both customer needs and expectations.   Singer joined Verint in 2002 and has held a variety of roles in Verint including Director of Solution Consultants, RVP of Solution Principles, and most recently RVP, Presales, focusing on Solution Consulting and Innovation. Prior to Verint, Dave was a Principal at eLoyalty and a Software Architect at IBM.   Questions We always like to give our guests an opportunity to share in their own words a little bit about your journey, how it is that you got from where you were to where you are today? What is Verint? And what does Verint do? What would you say are maybe two or three overarching themes or pain points that your customers predominantly have challenges with as it relates to closing that customer engagement gap? What do you think are maybe two things if your clients came to you and asked where do you think we need to be putting our focus for 2024 to kind of set ourselves apart from the competition and really be able to supersede our customers' expectations?” What would those two things be based on your experience, as well as maybe what the data is actually telling you? Could you also share with our audience what's the one online resource, tool, website or app that you absolutely can't live without In your business? Can you also share with us maybe one or two books that you've read that has had a great impact on you? It could be a book that you read recently, or even one that you read a very long time ago, but it has had a great impact on you. Can you also share with our listeners what's the one thing that's going on in your life right now that you're really excited about? Either something you're working on to develop yourself or your people. Where can listeners find you online? Now, before we wrap our episodes, we always like to ask our guests, do you have a quote or saying that during times of adversity or challenge, you will tend to revert to this quote if for any reason you get derailed or you get off track? The quote kind of helps to get you back on track. Do you have one of those? Highlights Dave's Journey  Me: I know we read a little bit about your background in the bio that I just read. But we always like to give our guests an opportunity to share in their own words a little bit about your journey, how it is that you got from where you were to where you are today?   Dave shared that he'll go to beginning to now, the opposite order of the quick CV Yanique read. So, as was said, he started out life as a Software Engineer and after a little while, he realized he could have more impact on more customers and more people if he moved from just building one piece of code to consulting with organization, how do you use technology to improve their customer service and improve their operations.  He did that for a while, then he moved over to Verint and he really felt that Verint had a great set of applications and tools to do exactly that. And so, moved through there, again, continue to help customers deliver better experiences, their (Verint) customers better experiences for their customers and their employees. And his move to go to market strategy a few years ago, it was really a great opportunity for him to be able to, again, step back from looking at individual brands or individual opportunities and look at more holistically, how can Verint help all brands, how can Verint help all of their customers really help deliver better customer service, better agents, and employee experiences, and without sounding too, too corny, but really, really help people.    What is Verint and What Do You Do? Me: Now, could you also tell our listeners, what is Verint? And what does Verint do?   Dave shared that Verint is the customer engagement company, and they're focused on helping brands elevate customer experience while also reducing costs and improving efficiency. So, the core problem in the market they set out to solve is something they call The Engagement Capacity Gap. So, if you think about it, customers, consumers, their expectations are going up and up and up and up all the time as there are more channels, more modalities, more ways that consumers can interact with brands, their expectations, the number of contacts go up, and their expectations go up.  One of the things he thinks is really interesting is that people are now expecting online speed of service in the real world. So an example he uses a lot is, it's different on the experience, if you go to a store, you see something you like maybe it's the colour you want is out of stock, or the price is too high. So you can scan it on your phone, and have it delivered for an online retailer before you get home.  So, that kind of intersection of the real world and the digital world drives incredible expectations increase. And the problem brands have is that they have relatively flat budgets and resources to meet these expectations, that's incredibly hard.  So, what Verint does is delivers they call “CX Automation Capabilities or Customer Experience Automation”, ways they can help the employees of brands meet these expectations without having to do exponential increases in hiring. So, what they do is they help their customers engage better with their consumers to meet their expectations in the most efficient and productive and deliver great experiences across the board.   Overarching Themes or Pain Points that Your Customers Have Challenges With  Me: Based on your experience, Dave, in the customer engagement space and the different customers that you work with, what would you say are maybe two or three overarching themes or pain points that your customers predominantly have challenges with as it relates to closing that engagement gap?   Dave shared that he looks at from one pain point any two dimensions. One is, from the customer perspective, it's interesting, the common belief used to be channel switching is bad, you should deal with customers and solve their problem with a channel they first reach out on. But that's changing, customers and consumers want to change channels at their own direction, right. So, you may start with an email then flip to chat, then call in, then follow up of an email, that's fine, that's how consumers want to interact, especially since all of those channels now land on your smartphone, it's not like you're moving to a different device per channel.  And that creates a real challenge for brands to be able to manage all these channels in a completely seamless way so that customers aren't repeating themselves every time they connect. And then on the flip side, the challenge for employees is, theme probably come up a few times here is great employee experiences are necessary for great customer experiences.  If your employees are disengaged and stressed out and don't have the tools they need, then they're poor experience is going to just seem is going to translate to poor customer experiences.  So, he thinks brands really struggle with how do you manage the customer need for seamless interaction and continuity of interaction across channels, while also providing the engagement, the tools and the experiences for their employees that allow them to deliver great experiences to customers when they interact.    Things an Organization Needs to Focus on to Set Themselves Apart From the Competition and Supersede Their Customers' Expectations  Me: Now Dave, we are basically closing out 2023 and we're embarking on a new calendar year, lots of things happening across different industries throughout the globe. What do you think are maybe two things if your clients came to you and said, “Dave, as the subject matter expert in this area, where do you think we need to be putting our focus for 2024 to kind of set ourselves apart from the competition and really be able to supersede our customers' expectations?” “What would those two things be based on your experience, as well as maybe what the data is actually telling you?”   Dave shared that there's a couple of things, they're both related. He would classify 2023 as the year of experimenting with AI, Gen AI and Chat GPT, and Open AI, all that really hit the world in a big way, Novemberish of 2022.  And through this year, a lot of brands are experimenting with how do we use this to deliver better content, deliver better answers, support our customers better, but it's very much been a year of experimentation.  He thinks 2024 is the year where that has to get operationalized. Brands need to look at, “Okay, we've experimented with this for year, we've done some trials, next year is the year to make that drive value for us.” is one thing.  The second thing, he thinks this is really important. And this is core to the ethos of a Verin is think about employee and human augmentation, not replacement. So, for a long time, there's been this belief or this talk track that, “Hey, if we get the right Chatbots and the right RPA and the right tech in place, we won't need people anymore, we can automate that away.” And he doesn't believe the data shows us, that's not the case. There are things that humans are better at than machines, at a certain level of complexity and value and emotional importance, humans want to speak to humans. So, he thinks the focus of AI and automation, and we're very focused is our delivery of CX automation is really around human augmentation, because that gives the employees the power and the great experience that lets them help customers in a better way. So, 2024 is going to be the year of getting value from AI versus experimenting and pivoting from human replacement to human augmentation with CX automation.   App, Website or Tool that Dave Absolutely Can't Live Without in His Business When asked about online resource that he can't live without in his business, Dave shared that there is so many, for them he'd say broadly it's access to knowledge that comes in a few different ways.  So, it's the ability to do research on the internet in general and is to get access to broad information. And he thinks right now, looking at some of the Gen AI and the rag tools that let us turn that information into knowledge to get answers faster.   So really, for him, it's all about getting to answers, so any of the any of the online tools that allows for knowledge retrieval quickly. And again, we have knowledge management solutions and wiki solutions, things like that. But to him, it's all about access to knowledge and answers quickly.   Books that Have Had the Biggest Impact on Dave When asked about books that have had a great impact, Dave shared that Outside In: The Power of Putting Customers at the Center of Your Business by Harley Manning is a great book, it's a classic that always reminds us to focus, look at things from the customer perspective, and design our solutions and our tools, our processes, from the point of view of the customer, not the point of view of what we as a company, or we as a brand want to do. That's one of being pivotal in how he thinks about things.  Another one that he thinks is great just from a business strategy book is What Got You Here Won't Get You There: How Successful People Become Even More Successful by Marshall Goldsmith. So again, it reminds us that things change, that things change increasingly quickly. So, we always have to be evaluating our strategies and our approaches and our solutions to adapt to where we are right now and where we want to get to.  And just because a pattern worked for us last year, doesn't mean it's going to work this year, doesn't mean throw it away. But you just can't have that assumption that doing the same thing over and over again, is going to keep having the same results going forward.  So, he would just look at those two and ones he read both a while ago, but come back to all the time, the focus on customer perspective first and always evaluate are your strategies effective right now? Not were they effective last year is really important.   What Dave is Really Excited About Now! When asked about something that he's really excited about, Dave stated that first he's going to share something completely unbusiness related, personal that he's excited about that he'll bring it back. So, his daughter just started college this year and he's really excited to watch that process of her learning and growing and moving from a kid in high school to a to a young woman in college and getting ready to meet the world. So, he thinks it's first aside from the fact he's just so proud of her, it's just really exciting to watch and remember what that development looks like and feels like and how to take that forward.  The other thing if anyone has seen him on video sometimes, his office, he has martial arts weapons all over his office, he's been training that for a while. He's currently training for his next rank, which is exciting for him personally. But one of the core concepts in martial arts is something called beginner's mind, which says no matter how advanced or experienced you get, you can never forget that you're always the beginner at something. There's always more to learn about the basics. And every time he looks at training for a level or a promotion, it reminds him when he comes back to work that, “Hey, I always have more to learn, right. There's always something to pick up from even things I've done 1000 times.” So again, he thinks that's a really important mindset going forward. And it's something he reinforced with his teams all the time is, just because you think you know, doesn't mean you know.  Just because you're good at something doesn't mean you couldn't be better. Just because someone does something differently in the way you do it doesn't mean it's worse, it just means it's different, it's something to learn from that. So, he thinks bringing that concept of beginner's mind back and keeping that, it keeps you humble, and keeps you open to getting better every day.   Me: Yeah, those are really good points. Awesome.   Where Can We Find Dave Online Website - www.verint.com LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/verint X - @Verint Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/verint LinkedIn – David Singer   Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Dave Uses  When asked about a quote or saying that he tends to revert to, Dave shared that it's not so much a quote but he just believe there's always a path forward. “And just because you don't see the path in front of you right this second, doesn't mean it's not there.” So, for him, when things get tough, he just remember that just because he doesn't see the path right now, doesn't mean if he doesn't take two steps forward, he's going to break through the trees, it's going to be right there. So, holding on to that fact is how he gets through adversity or when times maybe aren't turning the way he thinks they are.   Me: So, there's always a path forward. Alright, thank you so much for sharing Dave. Well, Dave, just wanted to say thank you very much for taking time out of your very busy schedule, and hopping on our podcast and sharing a little bit about your journey, as well as what you do at Verint and the great value that Verint is bringing as it relates to customer engagement and closing that gap for the many different organizations and customers that you work with. And also some of the things that organizations should try to focus on for 2024 as we really try to utilize all of the different knowledge sources, and technology opportunities that have been presented to us in a way that really helps to exceed the customers' expectations and even give them what they need or want before they even know that they need it or want it, so really enjoyed the conversation and I just want to express our deepest gratitude to you.   Please connect with us on Twitter @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest   Links •     Outside In: The Power of Putting Customers at the Center of Your Business by Harley Manning •     What Got You Here Won't Get You There: How Successful People Become Even More Successful by Marshall Goldsmith   The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners  Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience.” The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty. This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately! This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others. Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!

In this episode, Lindsay discusses her struggles with illness during the month of January and updates about the IVF process. She also introduces the 'one more rep' challenge in her BeStrong community. Lindsay explores the importance of understanding the point of failure in training and encourages her community to push to their limits. She addresses the concept of taking into consideration an individual's goals, preference and physiology. Lindsay also analyzes the benefits and drawbacks of high rep and low rep schemes, emphasizing that depending on a person's unique circumstances and goals, one may be more beneficial than the other.ANNOUNCING!! - BeStrong - My inner circle community - Join HEREMembership gives you access to….Training App with dozens of programs to choose fromCourses :Learn Step Away from Tracking and Mindfully EatHow to set up a Fat Loss planSetting up your Muscle building phase.Community & Support with specific groups that share you same goals$500 worth in give aways monthlyMonthly Themes and Challenges to increase your learning and help you BECOME the person you want to be.December - Fitness Flexibility - How to Stay Present with family and Your fitness GoalsJanuary - Becoming the master of proteinWeekly LivesRecipesUpload videos of exercises for form reviews done by me!Chapters:00:00 Welcome!01:54 BeStrong Challenges07:29 Talking Rep Ranges09:53 What is low rep range vs high rep range?11:47 Who should choose low reps?20:25 Why would someone choose a higher rep scheme?26:40 Advantages of higher rep schemes28:31 The cons of higher rep schemes30:17 Meso, micro, and macro cycles33:27 People don't always know how to push themselves

Matt Abrahams is a leading expert in communication with decades of experience as an educator, author, podcast host and coach. As a Lecturer in Organisational Behaviour at Stanford University's Graduate School of Business, he teaches popular classes in strategic communication and effective virtual presenting. He received Stanford GSB's Alumni Teaching Award in recognition of his teaching students around the world.  When he isn't teaching, Matt is a sought-after keynote speaker and communication consultant. He has helped countless presenters improve and hone their communication, including some who have delivered IPO road shows as well as TED, World Economic Forum, and Nobel Prize presentations.  His online talks garner millions of views and he hosts the popular award-winning podcast Think Fast, Talk Smart: The Podcast. He is the author of Think Faster, Talk Smarter: How to Speak Successfully When You're Put on the Spot. His previous book, Speaking Up without Freaking Out: 50 Techniques for Confident and Compelling Presenting has helped thousands of people manage speaking anxiety and present more confidently and authentically.    Questions  • So, We always like to ask our guests in their own words, if you could share a little bit about your journey, how it is that you got to where you are today, in your own words. • In Entrepreneurs Magazine, your article, it was called How to Sound Smart and Memorable Anytime. So, I would love for you to share with our listeners a little bit about the technique that you talk about in the article. • Are there any other techniques that you encourage someone to practice in order to overcome that speaking anxiety? • A big part of communication outside of speaking is listening, what has been your experience as a coach trying to help people to become better listeners? • Can you share with our listeners what's the one online resource, tool, website or app that you absolutely can't live without in your business? • We'd also like for you to share with our listeners, maybe one or two books that you've read, could be a book that you read recently, or even one you read a very long time ago, but the book has had a very big impact on you. • Can you also share with our listeners what's the one thing that's going on in your life right now that you're really excited about? Either something you're working on to develop yourself or your people. • Where can listeners find you online? • Now, before we wrap our episodes up, Matt, we always like to ask our guests, do you have a quote or a saying that during times of adversity or challenge, you will tend to revert to this quote if for any reason you get derailed or you get off track, this quote kind of helps to get you back on track.   Highlights Matt's Journey Matt shared that he's somebody who has always been passionate and curious about communication. He remembers as a young child, being fascinated with how people communicate. In fact, one day, his mother decided it was important for him and his brother to have a yard sale, a garage sale because they had so much stuff, she was frustrated and wanted to get rid of it.  And where he grew up, there were lots of garage sales all over the place. And his mother specifically said, misspell the word garage on the signs that they were putting up and he was surprised by this advice. But they did and they inserted the letter “B” in the word garage. So, they had a garbage sale while everybody else had a garage sale. And they sold more stuff than anybody that weekend. And at that moment, he realised wow, the way you speak, the language you use, the words you use can influence people.  So, ever since then he's been fascinated by it, he studied it in school in graduate school, he worked in the corporate world for over a decade and saw the impact of communication both good and bad. And to this day, he finds it fascinating and do a lot of work in the field.    Techniques Talked About in The Article from Entrepreneurs Magazine, How to Sound Smarter and Memorable Anytime Me: Now, I was lucky enough when travelling in October to purchase a copy of Entrepreneur Magazine. And I came upon your article, “How to Sound Smart and Memorable Anytime.” And I read the article and I was so intrigued, it caught my attention so much that I was like, “Oh my goodness, I have find this gentleman on LinkedIn and I have to invite him as guest on our podcast.” And so, I would just love for you to share the technique that you talked about in this article as it relates to communication and presenting and just share with our listeners a little bit about what that technique can do to improve on your presentations.   Matt shared that when it comes to communicating, especially communicating in the moment, it is critical that we are effective and we come off as confident, competent and clear. Many of us get very nervous when we have to speak in the moment and it can be very challenging for us. So, he has spent a lot of his last little bit of times trying to learn how to help people be better at speaking in the moment and that's what his whole new book is about. It's really about helping people feel better in the moment so that they can come off as confident and comfortable and help those better understand what it is they're talking about.  So, the article that you're referring to is really about one of the ways that we can go about sounding better and more intelligent when we speak, it's leveraging a specific structure. So, what's critical in our communication is that we package the information up in a way that is readily digestible by our audience. Many of us when we communicate spontaneously just itemize information, we share what we're thinking as we're thinking it. And that's not how people process information.  He talked to many neuroscientists and they say our brains are wired for story, something that has a beginning, a middle and an end, logical connections of ideas.  So, in the article and one of the things he teaches a lot is how do you put structure to communication? And he talked about one of his favourite structures, it's three questions. What?, So, what? Now, What?   What is the idea you're talking about? It's your product, your service, your offering your update, your feedback, it is the what?  So, what is why is it important and relevant to your audience? We have known for decades that content that is relevant and salient for an audience is what they pay attention to.  And then finally, now, what is what comes next? Maybe it's do you have questions for me, or let me show you a demonstration, or let's set up another meeting.  So, by simply following the structure, What, So, what, Now, what, answering those questions, you can package up your information nicely. In fact, he just used that structure to help explain the structure. He told you what it was, why it's important, and how you can use it. So, that article, and a lot of what he does is really about helping people learn different structures for different speaking situations.    Me: Amazing. And you also had some other structures that you mentioned in the article where you spoke about: ·      Problem, Solution, Benefit ·      Point, Reason, Example point ·      Comparison, Contrast, Conclusion ·      Situation, Task, Action and Result Could you just elaborate, maybe about 10 to 20 seconds on each for those just for our listeners, as well?   Matt shared that when it comes to speaking in the moment, there lots of different types of circumstances and situations that we find ourselves in. And different structures apply for different situations. So, when you're selling something, trying to persuade somebody of something, a very useful structure is problem, solution, benefit.  Many of us have found ourselves in circumstances where we need to persuade, so you articulate the problem, challenge or issue, you then explain your suggestion for how we go about solving it. And then you explain the benefits of doing so. So, that can be a very useful structure. In fact, any television advertisement you've ever seen has been in that structure.  There are other structures as well. In the article, he talked about another one, he recommends that people use a lot, which is comparison, contrast, conclusion, you compare two items together or three, or four. And then you talk about how they're different, that's the contrast. And then you give your conclusion. There are myriad structures out there, people are familiar with some, others not so familiar with. But the idea is to have a toolkit of structures that you can leverage to help you in those moments where you're struggling.   Techniques Encouraged to Practice in Order to Overcome Speaking Anxiety  Me: So, a big part of what you do as well, Matt is trying to help people get over the anxiety of presenting in front of a lot of people confidently, and I know structure, the methodology of the structure will definitely help you to have a little bit more focus, and you will have something in place versus just going up there and not knowing what to say. But are there any other techniques that you encourage someone to practice in order to overcome that speaking anxiety?   Matt shared that first and foremost, he doesn't think you can overcome anxiety, he thinks we can become more comfortable with it, we can learn to manage it. But would we even want to overcome it, anxiety is actually helpful to us, it is something that helps us focus, it allows us to be sure that what we're saying is important for ourselves and our audience, and it gives us energy. So, to him, it's all about managing anxiety, not overcoming anxiety.  And when it comes to that there are lots of things that people can do, we can manage both symptoms, as well as sources, symptoms are the things that we physiologically experience. And then sources are the things that initiate and exacerbate our anxiety.  So, it's important to attack both situations. So, symptoms are the things that we experienced, so many people get shaky, they feel their heart rate go up, so to help those with specific techniques, for example, deep belly breathing, you can breathe, take a slow inhale in and a longer exhale out and that will actually initiate a relaxation response that can help and it doesn't take very much to actually have that take effect. If you're shaky that's adrenaline trying to move you from threat towards safety and that means that we can do some movement in the beginning of a presentation stepping forward towards the audience, big broad gestures that gives the adrenaline a place to go and that way we can feel less anxious of our symptoms.  Now there are sources too, sources are the things that start our anxiety and continue it.  The biggest source of anxiety is people have a goal when they speak and it's good to have a goal when you speak. But we're afraid we won't achieve our goal and if you think about it, that means we're afraid that we won't achieve a future outcome.  So, the way to short circuit goal based anxiety is to become present, be focused in the moment, focus on what you're saying, focus on the audience and their needs, do something physical to get you in your body out of your head. These are all ways to manage the source of future thoughts.  So, there's a lot we can do to manage anxiety, the very first book he wrote was called Speaking Up without Freaking Out, it's a 50 techniques to help people feel better and more comfortable in the moment speaking. So, if we can manage our anxiety, we're going to do much better when it comes to our mission.   Communication: Apart from Speaking, How to Become a Better Listener Me: I believe a big part of communication outside of speaking, which I think the bigger part of communication that's way more important than speaking is listening. What has been your experience as a coach trying to help people to become better listeners, sometimes you're in a conversation, and I find that I have a challenge personally, with persons when I'm communicating, and they don't give you a moment to express your thought fully, and they start talking in the middle of your sentence. So, you're not even able to complete what you're actually saying and how do you get to that point where you can be present in the moment when the person is speaking so you can take in all that they're saying to you and process that information carefully, before actually making a response and get to the speaking part.   Matt shared that yes, listening is really important and many of us don't do it well. In fact, he heard somebody say, “Listening is really just what we do when we're waiting for our turn.”  You need to listen deeply, focused in a present oriented way to really not only show that you care about the person to connect, but also to understand what's needed in the moment.  Giving an example. Imagine you and him come out of a meeting and you say to him, “Matt, what do you think?” And he says, “Oh, good, she wants feedback. Let me give it. Well, this work, this didn't work, you could have done this better, we should have done this, etc.” But had he really listened, he might have noticed that your tone was a little quieter than usual. You came down to the back door instead of the front door, you were looking down when you asked him that question, what you really needed in that moment was not feedback, but it was support, and he missed the clues and cues. And he by jumping into giving you all this harsh feedback might have damaged the relationship.   So, we need to learn to listen well. How do you do that?  First and foremost, you listen for the bottom line, when we focus on what the person is saying in a deep way. What's the bottom line, we listen with a much more focused intensity than how we normally do it, which is just the top line, just the gist, what are they saying. And then as soon as we hear it, we begin rehearsing and evaluating and judging and that works against us really understanding.  So, the way to become a better listener is to listen for the bottom line, to give yourself permission to pay attention not just to what they're saying but how they're saying it, context in which you're saying it. This is hard work. Listening is challenging. He heard somebody once say, “You should listen until you sweat.” And he loves that idea, because it's implying that listening is an active activity, something that we really need to focus on. So, he loves that Yanique brought up that question, and he hopes everybody listening takes time to listen better.   App, Website or Tool that Matt Absolutely Can't Live Without in His Business When asked about online resources that he can't live without in his business, Matt shared that he gets a tonne of email and he uses a tool called Superhuman to help him parse through his email. It is an amazing tool, it has probably saved him 30%....40% of his email processing time. He loves the tool. He met the founder of the company a number of years ago, when he explained to him what he was working on, he fell in love with it instantly. And it is the tool he uses the most and it is the most helpful tool to him.   Books that Have Had the Biggest Impact on Matt When asked about books that have had an impact, Matt shared that beyond the books that he's written, which has had a huge impact on him. He's learned a lot in writing those two books Think Faster, Talk Smarter and Speaking up Without Freaking Out.  There are two books that he recommends to everybody. The first book is called Improv Wisdom, Improv Wisdom: Don't Prepare, Just Show Up by Patricia Ryan Madson. It is a very short book, but it is life changing. It has changed his life. It is a book that talks about the rules and ways that improvisation, improv can be applied to daily life. So, it's not about being funny, it's not about being up on a stage. It's about how to live your life in a more present oriented, connected, spontaneous way. Fantastic book!  The other book is a book he recommends to anybody looking to get better at their communication. It is an older book, as is Improv Wisdom. It is called Made to Stick: Why Some Ideas Survive and Others Die by Dan and Chip Heath, Chip Heath actually is a colleague of his at Stanford's Business School. It's all about how to make your ideas stand out and stick in people's minds in a world where there's a lot of things pulling at our attention. They give a six step methodology much like he does in his new book, that's all about how to make your ideas stick. He thinks everybody who wants to improve their communication, and they're lives should check out both of those books.   What Matt is Really Excited About Now! When asked about something that's he's excited about, Matt shared that he's very, very excited about the podcast he host Think Fast, Talk Smart, he's dedicating a lot of his time and resources to expanding and extending the communication best practices and tips that they share through experts. He believes it helps him become a better person, a better communicator and he certainly thinks it helps everybody. So, he's excited in the new year to put a lot of effort into that.    Me: Perfect. Okay, thank you for sharing Matt. We'll also have a link to Matt's podcast in the episode show notes as well, for anyone that would like to tap into Matt's podcast and gain some more insight on being a better communicator.   Where Can We Find Matt Online LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/maabrahams Website – www.mattabrahams.com   Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Matt Uses When asked about a quote or saying that he tends to revert to, Matt shared that it's a quote that he heard first in a silly movie, a movie called Buckaroo Banzai. And then he says he's showing his age, because it's many, many, many years ago. He knows it didn't come from this movie, but the quote is simple, “No matter where you go, there you are.”  And he often can live in the future, he can be worried and thinking about future consequences, what comes next. And he has learned that something that can help ground him is simply to come back to the present and say, no matter where you go, there you are, deal with what's coming on in front of you and that's how we get things moving forward. So, that's one of his favourite quotes and one that helps him a lot.   Me: So, thank you so much, Matt, for taking time out of your very busy schedule, for hopping on this podcast and being so gracious in facilitating this interview when I reached out to you originally. I definitely have gotten your book, I've started reading it and I've definitely shared it. I think I've shared it with at least maybe two or three organizations that I've done training with between October and December when I was first introduced to you through that article, so I think you're doing great work. And I really appreciate the time that you've taken to hop on our podcast and just share some great insights that I believe as customer experience practitioners that we can definitely use to enhance the service delivery that we have if we improve on our communication skills.   Please connect with us on Twitter @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest   Links •     Think Faster, Talk Smarter: How to Speak Successfully When You're Put on the Spot by Matt Abrahams •     Speaking Up without Freaking Out: 50 Techniques for Confident and Compelling Presenting by Matthew Abrahams •     Improv Wisdom: Don't Prepare, Just Show Up by Patricia Ryan Madson •     Made to Stick: Why Some Ideas Survive and Others Die by Chip Heath and Dan Heath   The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners  Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience.” The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty. This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately! This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others. Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!

Maggie Peña is the Chief Experience Officer at Interlace Health (the next generation of FormFast), a 30 year old privately held healthcare IT firm that delivers scalable and cost-effective forms automation and eSignature solutions for healthcare organisations. She brings 22 years of experience in IT to her role and leads one third of Interlaces Health's employees.  With a fierce focus on customer satisfaction and retention, Maggie created and built Interlace Health's customer support team and its customer implementation strategy, she built out the company's fully Spanish-speaking team for project implementation, and ongoing customer support, and she has managed the company's managed services program to create efficiencies for customers. She believes in a proactive approach to customer service, and it shows with happy and successful customers. Under Maggie's leadership, Interlace Health currently has a 97.4% customer retention rate.  Maggie serves as a co-leader for the HIMSS Clinician Burden Reduction Task Force and was recently named Becker's 2023 Women in Health IT to Know list.   Questions • Could you share a little bit about your journey, how you got to where you are today. • Can you tell our listeners maybe three key things that you've done consistently that you believe has contributed to the success of achieving a 97.4% customer retention rate? • Can you tell us maybe some of the criteria that you use to select those customers? What type of customer do you look for to ensure that they are the ones that you're joining your counsel? • Now, could you also share with our listeners what is the one online resource, tool, website or app that you absolutely can't live without in your business? • Now we'd also like for you to share with us maybe one or two books that you've read. It could be a book that you read a very long time ago or even one that you read recently, but it has had a great impact on you. • As a customer, what are maybe three things that are critical for you to actually say, yes, this was a great customer experience. • Can you also share with our listeners, what's the one thing that's going on in your life right now that you're really excited about? Either something you're working on to develop yourself or your people. • Are there are some key behaviours or competencies that you look for when you're hiring persons for those roles as customer support? • Where can listeners find you online? • Now, before we wrap our episodes up, we always like to ask our guests, do you have a quote or saying that during times of adversity or challenge, you will tend to revert to this quote if for any reason you get derailed or you get off track? This quote kind of helps to get you back on track. Do you have one of those? Highlights Maggie's Journey Me: So, just wanted to take some time before we jump into the meat of our conversation for you to share with our listeners a little bit about your journey. I know we would have read your bio, but we always like to ask the guests in their own words, if you could share a little bit about how you got to where you are today.   Maggie shared that it has been an interesting journey. When she started college, she wanted to be an accountant. But after her first accounting course, she quickly realized that was not her calling. So, the path that really paved her way to where she is today started in the financial industry during her junior year working part time for a local bank and the IT department, processing operations for almost 30 banks throughout the state, working with a Unisys mainframe and green screen terminals for the very first time. And she thinks she just might have dated herself, but that's okay.  So, all kidding aside, it was a great learning experience nonetheless. By then, she had switched majors and was now pursuing a degree in Computer Information Systems. And her time at the bank confirmed and validated her interest in technology and how we can use technology to automate processes to increase efficiencies and customer service as we knew it back then, now that customer experiences tends to be a newer word, back in the day, we were thinking at it as customer service.  She was lucky enough to stay at the bank for almost 7 years until the bank was acquired by an international bank with plans to move their IT operations someplace else. At that point, she knew that it was time to move on and look for something else. So, she joined a local health care system, also working in their IT department supporting the business and financial side of the hospital. After about a year, Interlace Health, formerly FormFast as said came into her life when the hospital purchased a forms automation solution. So, fast forward a couple of years, she had the opportunity to join the NRA Health team and have now been there for almost 13 years.   Key Strategies that Contributed to the Success of Achieving a 97.4% Customer Retention Rate Me: So, in your bio, it says that you've managed to achieve a 97.4% customer retention rate. Can you tell our listeners maybe three key things that you've done consistently that you believe has contributed to that success?    Maggie shared that at Interlace Health, they believe in putting people first, so that is their mission. They put people over paperwork, and it has reflected on the solutions that they provide their customers and the solution is that they innovate and so on, so forth. But even in the services, she has a belief that software alone doesn't cut it anymore, it just doesn't. Anyone can have a similar product or a similar solution as you, it really comes down to the level of service that you provide your customers and the experience that they encounter throughout the entire journey.  So, first and foremost, they put people first, always there for their customers, they have also built a dedicated team within the services department at Interlace Health, always to be their specialized in what they do, enabled to deliver personalized and attentive support to their customers, they are there with them, they understand their business, they understand their needs, and they're always available.  Again, to address it, regardless of what the need may be, the COVID pandemic was huge, it was terrible, but it was an opportunity for them to be there for their customers and continue providing the service, and not just the service, but continue providing the same level of service to enable them to continue providing the care that they needed to provide even more so during those difficult times.   And then three, they embrace feedback from their customers, the good, the bad, and the Ugly, like the saying. They're always there, they have established a Customer Success Council and it's composed of their most engaged, knowledgeable customers who advises on their products or solutions, they share the best practices. And quite frankly, they give candid feedback. It's not always what they want to hear, but at the end of the day is what they want to hear, because their feedback and their insights have helped make informed decisions as they improve their products and services. And they are pretty much the ones helping them guide their path forward as it comes to their products and services.   Criteria for Selecting Customers to Join Your Customer Success Council  Me: Now, in addition to those three things that has contributed to your customer retention rate being at 97.4%. And I know you mentioned a customer council that you say you use to guide you. Can you tell us maybe some of the criteria that you use to select those customers? What type of customer do you look for to ensure that they are the ones that you're joining your council?    Maggie shared that they offer various solutions. So, they try to get customers that are using different types of solutions, right? Because obviously, there's different needs that each solution addresses. First, they started with their internal team, and they asked them who are your champions? Who are your stellar contacts that are customers who know their products, they know it well, they're using it consistently and that's the criteria. It's also customers that are using their solutions successfully and consistently.  But they try to get customers who weren't using it as much or adopting it as they would like them to, to get involved, to tell them why, what are your challenges? What are your staff or your patients telling you about your solutions or their solutions in this case, that is keeping you from using it to its fullest potential?  So, it was really customers that were mostly engaged and customers that they have communication with, but not to the extent like the fully engaged ones, if that makes sense so that we could get both sides of the house, those that are using it a lot and those that are struggling for various reasons, they wanted to hear from them as well.   App, Website or Tool that Maggie Absolutely Can't Live Without in Her Business When asked about online resource that she cannot live without in her business, Maggie shared that she would say internally, Microsoft Teams. Prior to pandemic, Interlace Health, they've always been a remote company. So, mostly everyone was remote, she's been remote almost 13 years there. But since pandemic, she thinks Microsoft Teams have kept them very well connected not just internally but with their customers in the hospital setting, that is what they've seen use the most is Microsoft Teams. And then internally to keep track of their customers and their data and their metrics and so on, so forth. Everything that they need to know about their customers, they use Salesforce platform.   Books that Have Had the Biggest Impact on Maggie When asked about books that have had a great impact, Maggie shared that The Speed of Trust: The One Thing that Changes Everything by Stephen Covey. She loves that book and it's been a while, she's probably going to read it again. And the question got her thinking she needs to reread it again. But it's been a few years since she's read it. And she loves how it gives clarity into how trusted leaders do things differently, faster and at a lower cost. She's a true believer that trust drives everything, and how it produces better results. So, that's one.  And then the second one not so much a book, because he's got plenty of books, but John Maxwell, anything, everything John Maxwell, he's amazing. She first heard him 5 years ago at a Global Leadership Summit. The one thing that struck the most from that Summit was when he was talking about looking for ways to add value to people, he called it be an added value liver. Where he was talking about throughout the day, going from knowing to doing, from thinking and looking to making sure it's an action. And at the end of the day, ask yourself, “Did I add value to people today?”  Again, John Maxwell, he is someone who she constantly sees his videos, she's purchased some training, she even purchases trainings there at work for her direct reports as well to see and to encounter and to read and learn from his teachings. So, those are the two that she can think of.    As a Customer, Three Critical Things to Have a Great Customer Experience Me: Now I know as your role as a Chief Experience Officer at Interlace Health, you are focused on providing the service to your clients. But I'd like to flip the script a little and put you in the in the hotbox where you are the customer. So, when you think about your own interactions with organizations that you do business with, what are maybe three things that are critical for you to actually say, yes, this was a great customer experience.   Maggie stated that the sense of trust. She talked about trust, the book. So, she would say trust, transparency, and personalization, if she had to put it into just three words. This would be her top three that comes to mind right away.    Me: So, trust, transparency, and personalization.   Maggie stated that personal life experience, she's huge on that. Just, for example, even when she goes to restaurants, the first thing she looks at when the waiter approaches her is their name badge, because she wants to address them by their name. And she always does, it's just that personal touch and everything that we do, to her, that's very important.    Me: It's always the little things.   What Maggie is Really Excited About Now! When asked about something that she's excited about, Maggie shared that just with the new CXO role, she's excited about it because it's going to allow her to work with the entire organization on the customer journey from the initial awareness to implementation support and beyond. So, she's excited to continue creating a more holistic customer centric culture at Interlace Health, while developing and implementing a comprehensive customer experience strategy. And Yanique did the bragging, she (Maggie) was going to brag a little bit about their customer retention rate. So, that's also exciting for them at Interlace Health at the moment, which is that customer retention rate of 97.4%.   Key Behaviours or Competence for Hiring Customer Support  Me: Could you also share with us with, your customer support team that you had built out, how many persons are on that team?   Maggie shared that they have the team, they're thinking about everyone that's doing support, a good 10 people.   Me: So, you got 10 people on that support team. And so, I just wanted to know if there are some key behaviours or competencies that you look for when you're hiring persons for those roles.   Maggie shared that yes, they need competency, they need people that know what they know, that they're intelligent, and they know what's expected of them. But she looks more on attitude, because you can teach the skills that they need to know in order to support the customers. You'll teach them the product and the solutions and all the intricacies right of what they do. But the attitude, that is not something they can teach. So, she hires for attitude. And so, that's a big one for her.  At Interlace Health, they look for people who are motivated and you have to, in this remote world, you have to be self-motivated. We're no longer in front of other people to help us get through the day. So, you need self-motivated individuals, absolutely intelligent, competent people, but people that have the attitude, who are going to be there for their customers, because not every single call is a good call, and that's life. Some calls aren't always the best calls, but they want people who are going to have the attitude and turn a not so good call into a positive call at the end of the day while we're helping their customers resolve their problems.    Where Can We Find Maggie Online Website – https://interlacehealth.com/ LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/maggiepeña/   Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Maggie Uses When asked about quote that she tends to revert to, Maggie shared that there's one that she has that she's used personally since a very young age. And that is simple, “If anyone else can do it, so can I.” and like she said, that since she can remember going through school, college, you name it, she's always had that in her mind if anyone else can do it, so can I.  Then she has a second one too as it relates to her professional setting at work and with her team as they're looking to do something new, whether it's a new process, a new approach to something, anything new that they're talking about doing, she always tells them, “Let's try it, what's the worst that can happen?” So, those are the two quotes that you'll hear her say quite a bit depending on the situation.   Me: Perfect. I love the second one, “Let's do it, what's the worst that can happen?”   Maggie stated, what's the worst that can happen? If it doesn't work, it wasn't working anyway.   Me: There's one that goes, “You miss all of the shots that you never take.” That quote kind of reminds me of that one.   Maggie, I just wanted to express our deepest gratitude to you for taking time out of your very busy schedule and hopping on this podcast with us today. And sharing about your journey as well as what your organization is doing and just how it is that you've been able to really make customer experience shine in your organization and achieve the high level of retention rate, how it is that you focus on ensuring that your customers are getting what they need, and not necessarily what organization wants to give them but you have something in place where you really use the voice of the customer on a regular basis. And you can see it manifest into your customer satisfaction and retention scores. So, thank you again for joining us today.   Please connect with us on Twitter @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest   Links •     The Speed of Trust: The One Thing that Changes Everything by Stephen Covey   The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners  Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience.” The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty. This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately! This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others. Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!

Peter C. Yesawich is Chairman of Hospitable Healthcare Partners, LLC - a marketing consultancy serving hospitality and the healthcare industry clients - and Vice Chairman Emeritus of MMGY Global, one of the country's leading marketing communications companies renowned for its strategic thinking, breakthrough creativity, and innovation in marketing practice.  Yesawich has contributed to the development of marketing programs for some of the industry's most popular brands, destinations and organizations including: Fairmont Hotel & Resorts, Hilton International, Disney Parks & Resorts, Universal Studios, Atlantis, The Broadmoor, Sandals Resorts, Wynn Las Vegas, Marriott Vacation Club International, the Mexico Tourism Board, and the U.S. Olympic Committee, to name a few.  He is co-author of Marketing Leadership in Hospitality and Tourism, and the new book, Hospitable Healthcare: Just What the Patient Ordered!   Questions •  Could you share a little bit about your journey? •  Have you seen any common themes as it relates to customer service delivery on the part of the service provider that you think is universal to both areas? •  Now, could you also share with us what's the one online resource, tool, website or app that you absolutely cannot live without in your business? •  Can you also share with our listeners, maybe one or two books that you have read, it could be a book that you read a very long time ago, or even one that you've read recently, but it had a great impact on you. •     What's the one thing that's going on in your life right now that you're really excited about? Either something you're working on to develop yourself or your people. •  Where can listeners find you online? •  Now, before we wrap our episodes up, we always like to ask our guests, do you have a quote or a saying that during times of adversity or challenge, you will tend to revert to this quote if for any reason you get derailed or you get off track, the quote kind of helps to just get you back on track. Do you have one of those?    Highlights Peter's Journey Me: Could you share a little bit about your journey? I know in your bio, it gives us a summary of the clients that you've worked with, some of the impact that you've had. But we always like to hear in the own words of our guests, their words of how their journey has been and how they got to where they are today.   Peter shared that most of his career has been spent in the hospitality field, as you mentioned in your introduction there. Actually, when he finished school, he has a PhD in Psychology, and he never practised clinically, but he always wanted to use the education to understand the influence of marketing communication. So, that's what he did for a period of roughly 35 years. And then, for a 10-year period, he took a sabbatical and he went into the healthcare business. And he did that for a bunch of reasons. But he joined a national oncology company by the name of Cancer Treatment Centres of America. They had 5 destination hospitals, 10 clinics served about 15,000 patients annually.  So, he had a unique perspective in hospitality, having worked with a number of the brands you mentioned, and in healthcare, and when I got to healthcare, it was very obvious to him that the health care experience for patients could be improved significantly if healthcare providers simply adopted many of the principles that have essentially led to the success of hospitality brands. So, that's the short version.  And then a couple of years ago, he was in Las Vegas making a speech and he was in the greenroom. And he bumped into a gentleman by the name Stowe Shoemaker and he's a gentleman he's known for probably 20-25 plus years. He's a gentleman who has a very distinguished career in academia.  And he at the time, was the Dean of the Hospitality Management Programme at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas. And prior to that, he was in Houston at the University of Houston, where he also had a joint appointment with the MD Anderson Cancer Centre. So, they're trading notes and he said, “So, it's amazing, your background is very similar to mine, because we both have experience in hospitality and healthcare. And we had the same kind of perspective, and that is that the healthcare experience could really be improved.” And that's what ultimately lead to them writing this book.   Universal Themes Across Hospitality and Healthcare Me: Awesome. So, hospitality and healthcare, those are two very important industries. Hospitality is more about fun and healthcare, of course, is about just living a healthy lifestyle, but seeing that you have exposure and experience in both industries, would you say there are some common themes in terms of customer service expectations that customers would have, because at the end of the day, if you go into a resort or a hotel you are going on vacation, 9 out of 10 times, people travel for business as well. But pretty much you're not in pain, whereas, 9 out of 10 times, if you're going to healthcare, you go for your check-ups, but most people a lot of times are already in pain why they're visiting their doctor, whether it be a clinic or hospital. So, have you seen any common themes as it relates to customer service delivery on the part of the service provider that you think is universal to both areas?   Peter stated that it's a great question. And the answer is there are many, in fact. But let him begin by asking the question of your listeners, which is the way he really like to start the conversation, and that is he asked, “Can you think of a healthcare experience that you've had that was either unsatisfactory or gone wrong?”  And the answer for everyone is absolutely, yes. Everybody has a story about a healthcare experience that went wrong. And then he stopped them. And he says, well think about the primary reason for that. And it's interesting to note that very rarely, is the reason is the clinical outcome the reason. Clinical outcome generally is very satisfactory for people in healthcare. But the reason primarily is the way the healthcare service was delivered.  So, to Yanique's question, they actually began writing this book by doing a survey of 1200 adults in the US. And what they did is they looked at 22 common points of customer engagement, that are unique to both healthcare and hospitality, for example, the very front end, how easy or difficult is to get an appointment? We all hear stories about someone who wants to make an appointment with a certain type of medical specialist, and they're disappointed because it takes weeks or months to do that, how does that experience compare with making a reservation, for example.  And then all the way through whether or not you know the cost of the service before it's provided, in the hospitality industry, you absolutely do, because when you book, at that point, typically the cost of the service is confirmed, unfortunately, in the healthcare business, after you confirm an appointment, it's very rare that you know the cost of the service before you receive it. And he's sure you've (Yanique) got a story, everybody has a story about a surprise medical bill and how disappointing and unnerving that is. All the way through whether or not the provider asks you for feedback on the experience.   Last night, for example, he had dinner with some friends, and they booked the reservation on Open Table. And true to form, this morning, 8 o'clock, he gets an email from Open Table says, “How was your experience?” He will also tell you, a couple of weeks ago, he had an executive physical at a very well-known healthcare provider, and he has yet to hear from them to ask him about his experience as a patient.  So, point is that there are 22 of these points of customer engagement that they measured in the survey with 1200 adults. And basically, what they did is they asked them to rate their experience in 5 categories to compare their reaction or their experience on the 22 points of service engagement for hospitals - number 1, for walking clinics - number 2, for doctors' offices - number 3, for lodging - number 4, that would be Hotels and Resorts. And the 5th was in dining and restaurants.  So, the way to think about this is they have kind of a 5 by 22 matrix. And in each cell, they have 1200 observations, so they have a really, really robust kind of basis analysis, in the punch line and all of that to your question about the common points of customer engagement.  What they then calculated is what they call the hospitality deficit and that is how much people felt the experience in healthcare was a deficit in terms of the service experience, versus hospitality. And out of that came 5 specific themes. He's happy to talk you through those. But that's a lot to kind of process. But the answer was, yeah, there are 22 common points of customer engagement that they identified, and they examined.   Me: Perfect. So, 22, that's a lot, you want to kind of just maybe run through, just maybe this list the 22 for us, and then maybe you could talk about some of the ones that are near and dear to your heart?   Peter shared that what they did is they actually collapsed these into 5 themes. So, he'll kind of just talk to those specifically. And then they can drill down on any of them that would be of interest.  So, the number one source of this deficit in service delivery between healthcare and hospitality is what he mentioned a moment ago, and that is for individuals not knowing or understanding the cost of the service before they receive it. And we've all had that experience in healthcare, whether if the bill is easy to understand or difficult to understand, whether or not if you know how much to pay for the service before you receive it. And then whether or not the cost of the service is consistent with your expectation. So, all of those kind of roll up into that first trend. And that is the primary source of dissatisfaction patients have with the healthcare experience. And you can probably think of an example for you personally, he has them, he's sure the listeners have them. The second theme that came out of this really interesting was the fact that patients and healthcare don't feel like their business, so to speak, is appreciated by the providers. Now in hospitality, you get many thank yous, you get a thank you when you check in, and thank you when you checkout, you get a thank you when the waiter takes the order, you get a thank you when the bills presented.  And if you think about the expressions of appreciation patients have in healthcare, that's very rare. It's almost like, in many respects, for some providers, you the patient should be thanking the provider for the provider delivering the service. But that's the second kind of source of this deficit.  The third is the whole arrival experience and reception. And we all have kind of stories about the clipboard, the dreaded clipboard, you show up at the doctor's office, and they hand you the clipboard and say, “Please fill this out.”  And the irony is, you may have filled out the same clipboard a couple of weeks prior, either at the same physician's office, or a similar, and maybe a referral that has been made. But how about the whole environment, a lot of doctors' offices and hospitals have worked hard on that in recent years, but it's still nothing like walking into a three or four star hotel or a restaurant where they've really given a lot of thought to things like colours, and textures, and aromas, and all the things that really do impact our sense of arrival and the way we're greeted, when we arrive too.  The fourth theme is what they call service logistics. And that's this ease or difficulty of making an appointment or getting a reservation. And then the other aspect of that is the check in process, is it easy. He suspects many of the listeners are members of frequency programs, like whether it's with hotels, or airlines or restaurants. And they've worked very hard to create these customer profiles, right, they understand your preferences, they know that maybe you like a certain type of pillow in a hotel, or a certain type of bedding, or a seat on an aeroplane, it's interesting in the healthcare business, that kind of information although it's readily available, is very rarely tracked and used.  So, what happens is the check in process becomes very cumbersome, go back to the idea of the dreaded clipboard, but it's providing the same information over and over again. Or the other thing in hospitality is that's been very effective in terms of recognising customers, is giving them a little special attention.  So, for example, if you're a member of a loyalty program for a hotel company, you might check in at a different location at the front desk, so they might have a little plaque there that says, “Reserved for our loyalty members” or whatever.  In the airline business, people scrambled to get loyalty status, so they can get an overhead bin when they get on the plane, or that maybe they have a chance to pick a seat ahead of time.  So, the whole idea is that there's some special recognition, doesn't happen in healthcare, right? You stand in the same line with everybody else, whether or not you are a repeat patient or first-time patient. And we can talk about that, because there are ways to solve that in healthcare, but they don't exist today.  And then the last theme here is they call service recovery. You know for example if you're off in a restaurant, and the entree comes in and you're unhappy and you mentioned that to the waiter or waitress, what happens is, they're very quick to remove it and replace it and they might even give you a complimentary dessert. They'd say the sorry that happened. Or if you're really unhappy, they just take it off your bill. Whatever happens when people contest a charge from a healthcare provider, have you ever tried to do that? You know what happens? It goes nowhere. And so, many times you're arguing with the insurance company, or you might even be arguing with the provider. But the point is that service recovery is very poor in healthcare, and it's very good in hospitality.  So, those are five themes, it's knowing the cost of the service, being appreciated as a customer, the whole arrival experience, the service logistics that is the check in process, and so forth. And then finally, service recovery. So, the 22, they kind of collapse into those 5.   Me: So, to be really honest, of all the themes that you mentioned just know, the one that you mentioned about loyalty from a healthcare perspective, that was like a BFO for me, a blinding flash of the obvious, because you're so right, like most industries have some form of reward that you get for being loyal to them. I don't have one doctor that I go to my ophthalmologist, my gynaecologist, my GP, none of them and I've been going to them for years. My dermatologist, I've been going to her from I was 16. Wouldn't they benefit from making their customers, their patients feel like they valid them? And because the reality is we can switch, I've switched doctors in the years I've been going for various reasons.  I remember when I just had my daughter, the paediatrician was extremely cold in some feedback he had given me when she was 6 months old, she had this really high temperature, I was a first time mom, I was 24 and I called the office to schedule an appointment, because I was doing all the things at home to get the fever down, and it wasn't working. And their response was, I should just bring her in later in the day. And when I spoke to him, finally, he said he was playing golf and that statement in itself made me switch. I've told that story to so many people, she's 18, she turned 18, two weeks ago, and that was when she was six months old. And I've never forgotten it. And I would never recommend anybody to go to him based on that experience.   Peter stated that Yanique hit the nail on the head with that, one of the things that they examined in the book is they actually created a service model for healthcare practitioners, that has five elements in it, it's called the PAEER Model, that's an abbreviation. The P is to Prepare the care for the patients. And that's the whole idea of learning more about them before they arrived. The next is A, which is to Anticipate, which gets into this whole issue of the anxiety that people feel when they're pursuing healthcare services, particularly if it's in kind of an emergency situation, we can come back to that in a second. The first E is the Engagement Process that's this check in or the arrival and how easy or difficult it is. The second E is Evaluation, that's asking for feedback. And the one the last is R, which is what you just mentioned, which is Reward. So, let's just take a second and explore that. And let him digress for a second because this is a little bit of humour. But he thinks it makes the point.  They open the book with a story about a fictitious patient. It's a guy who is in his mid 40s. And he lives in Ohio, and he's pretty concerned about his health, he goes for an annual physical, and his PCP says, “Okay, time for your first colonoscopy.” So, they chronicle this guy's experience, trying to get a hold of the gastroenterologist making an appointment, how difficult that was, the fact that he shows up, they don't really recognize him, have no background information. So, he's got to take a half an hour with the clipboard to fill all that out. The fact that he doesn't know the physician and the first time he sees the gastroenterologist is when he's lying on the gurney, and they roll them in. He has the colonoscopy, and he wakes up and says, “How did you do?” And they said, “Well, we can't tell you. But maybe a couple of days, we'll have some results.” So, the guy worries all the way home, finally gets some good news.   But a couple of days later, he gets a bill in the mail from the anaesthesiologist that he wasn't expecting, it was another $700.00. Nobody told him about that. And a week later, he gets another bill, which is the equivalent of a one month's mortgage payment that nobody told him about. So, the guy goes wow. Well, six weeks later, he and his wife decided to go to Vegas for a weekend. So, they go online, and they look at the options, they find a spectacular hotel on the Strip, the guy's a member of the hotel's loyalty program. So, when they show up, he goes to the Front Desk, they say, “Mr. Smith, we're delighted to let you know we've upgraded you to a suite.” And the guy goes, “Wow, that's terrific.” So, they go to the suite, they have a wonderful time dining and shows and so forth. He's ready to check out.  So, he looks at the app on his phone, it's exactly what he thought it was going to cost. And when he gets to the front to the exit, the doorman says, “Mr. Smith, we hope you had a wonderful time and we can't wait to see you again.” By the way, nobody said that to him when he left the gastro's office. And so, two weeks later gets his visa bill and it's exactly what he thought it was going to be. And he notices he gets 3000 reward points for his trip to Vegas.  And so, they asked the question, “Why didn't he get reward points for his colonoscopy?” Now, when he says that most people go, “What? what are you kidding?” “No, we're not kidding.” It's to your point, why do healthcare providers not have loyalty programs? And you think that that would make more sense in healthcare because the older we get the more healthcare we use? So, you'd think well, there'll be reasons to encourage people to come back. Well and the answer to that is, most people in healthcare have never thought about it, they didn't think it was appropriate. Now, there are certain legal restrictions if you have like Medicare, and Medicaid, where you can't have any kind of financial inducement for people to come for care.  But two thirds of the people in this country with a healthcare insurance, it's a commercial insurance, and that is absolutely appropriate. So anyway, they think that's a horizon that you're going to see a lot more of in healthcare, that more and more healthcare providers are going to start introducing these loyalty programs. Now, it doesn't have to be any kind of financial incentive, it could be maybe it's free cancer screenings, maybe it's free educational programs on nutritional foods, or maybe it's yoga classes, things that get you to live a healthier life. But it's absolutely a wonderful point and they think it's going to be more popular in the future.   Me: That's definitely a gap that they're missing out on, absolutely. Love that we dovetail nicely into that, and you're able to kind of give us a pretty good synopsis of what the book is about. I have started consuming it, I remember that story about the gentleman at the beginning, because I remember reading that at the beginning. I haven't completed the book fully yet, but I'm really enjoying the content and the comparisons, which is why I asked that first question at the beginning. So, I'm really appreciative of how you went into it and gave us some really good examples.   App, Website or Tool that Peter Absolutely Can't Live Without in His Business When asked about online resource that he cannot live without in his business, Peter shared that that's a great question. And he will tell say that he's sure like he's everybody else in that it's got to be Google. It's just a wealth of information, which ultimately leads to more specific sites and content that reflect the uniqueness of the search.   The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners  Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience.” The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty. This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately! This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others. Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!

Michelle McCarthy is Global Vice President of Customer Experience at Unit4. In her role, Michelle leads a talented team of professionals, is responsible for ensuring the maximum adoption of and customer satisfaction with Unit4's offerings and is accountable for leading the transformation of Unit4's customer experience strategy that enables the customer success evolution.  Michelle earned her B.S in Marketing from Miami University in Ohio, and her Executive MBA in Global Management from Fordham University in New York.   Questions •  We always give our guests an opportunity to share a little bit about their journey. So, if you could take a few minutes to kind of just share with our audience a little bit about how you got to where you are today. •  So, Unit4, could you share with our audience a little bit about what Unit4is? What do you guys do? •  KPIs in terms of like NPS and customer satisfaction score. A lot of organisations also invest into market research, particularly like mystery shopping, and the mystery shopping sometimes will capture the NPS. What are your views on the frequency of doing these types of activities? And do you think it's critical to be doing it post transactional? Or should it be more so a conversation that you have with the client, maybe at the end of every quarter? What are some of your best practices that you'd recommend to clients? •  If you really want to focus on dominating, navigating that CX space in such a positive way, that your brand has an exceptionally positive reputation, what are some key indicators that you believe organisations need to focus on as we go into 2024? Where do they need to be giving their attention to? •  Now, could you also share with us what is the one online resource, tool, website or app that you absolutely can't live without in your business? •  Could you also share with us maybe one or two books that you've read, it could be a book that you read a very long time ago, or even one that you've read recently that has had a great impact on you? •  We have a lot of listeners who are business owners and managers who feel they have great products and services. But they lack the human capital that has that constant motivation, what's the one piece of advice that you'd give them to have a successful business having that consistent challenge that they're experiencing? •  Could you also share with us what's the one thing that's going on in your life right now that you're really excited about? Either something you're working on to develop yourself or your people. •  Where can listeners find you online? •  Now, before we wrap our episodes up, we always like to ask our guests, do you have a quote or a saying that during times of adversity or challenge, you will tend to revert to this quote, it kind of helps to get you back on track if for any reason you got derailed, or you got off track, just reminding yourself about that quote will kind of help to get you back on track, help you to get more focused. Do you have one of those?  Highlights  Michelle's Journey Michelle stated that she started off her career and kind of more of the traditional marketing, b2c and b2b type roles on the client side. And started in the advertising agency space, worked for a number of different retailers and brands, and eventually had kind of rounded out her experience and wanted to move into more of the tech side of things.  She had some opportunities to go and work on the SaaS side of the business for a company called Vibes, which is a mobile marketing technology company. And through that experience, and kind of rounding out her mobile marketing experience, she was able to kind of continue her career path then into other SaaS organisations. And so, by herself, here today, very excited to be talking with you (Yanique).   Tell Us About Unit4 Me: So, Unit4, could you share with our audience a little bit about what Unit4is? What do you guys do? Michelle shared that Unit4 is a cloud leader, really in the enterprise software space for midmarket, people centred organisations. And so, their solutions span everything from enterprise resource planning to financial planning and analysis tools, as well as procurement, project management for professional services organizations and so forth, as well as human capital management.  So, their solutions really bring together all those various capabilities around financials, procurement, project management, HR, into one unified and cloud platform through their ERPX solution. So yeah, that's a little bit about Unit4. Me: Quite a mouthful. So, at Unit4, a big part of what you focus on, we kind of alluded to it a bit before we started the official recording, how is it that you are able to improve CX by embracing customer centricity as a core value? And of course, there are some KPIs that you need to measure, so that's your area of expertise. So, could you share a little bit about that with our audience? Michelle stated that she really believes that organizations need to always be looking how they stand out from the crowd, right. In order to do that, we have to find better ways to address customer needs, and make sure that we're providing value and attainable outcomes. We need business experience that extends past traditional customer touchpoints and make sure that we're always looking at ways that we can influence product innovation, we need to look at the employee experience, because employee experience really translates to that of the customer experience. And we need to make sure that also aligns with our customers organization serves their purpose and our values.  So, one of the first steps in improving customer experience is really looking for a top down buy in across customer centricity and putting that at the heart of everything that you do in your business. So, whatever role you serve in the organization, that some way touches the end customer.  And so, customer companies need to really be making sure that they're measuring customer centric KPIs in order to determine how are we doing? And how are our customers feeling about us? So, we always want to look at how well we're looking at gaining new customers into the business, how are we growing the existing base of customers that we have? And how are we ultimately retaining the customers that we have to make sure that they're becoming long term champions of our business through the success that they've achieved together in partnership with us?  To kind of delve a little bit more into some of the KPIs, a couple of the things that we might look at are things like Net Promoter Score. So, looking at that kind of scale of 0 to 10 on how likely a customer is to recommend your company to a peer or colleague, looking at things like Customer Satisfaction Scores and making sure that those are kind of sprinkled all throughout the key listening posts of our customers.   So, wherever they are engaging with us, whether that's post sales, or that's post implementation, or that's post a business review that we've had with them, we want to make sure that we're always facilitating, and asking for their feedback and making sure that we are taking that, capturing that feedback and looping back to set proper expectations with customers.   Recommended Frequency of Market Research Activities   Me: So, I'm glad you talked about KPIs in terms of like NPS and Customer Satisfaction Score. A lot of organisations also invest millions of dollars, sometimes even billions into market research, particularly like mystery shopping, and the mystery shopping sometimes will capture the NPS. What are your views on the frequency of doing these types of activities? And do you think it's critical to be doing it post transactional? Or should it be more so a conversation that you have with the client, maybe at the end of every quarter? What are some of your best practices that you'd recommend to clients?  Michelle stated that frequency and cadence is definitely key, depending on the types of engagements, you want to make sure that they're throughout the customer's journey at the appropriate time. So, if you have a new customer that's joined, one of the things she mentioned is post sale, you have a customer that's gone through potentially a lengthy sales process with you, how did they find working across the organization, that's a great time for you to kind of see how the beginning part of their journey into implementation will go.  Then you may also want to survey a customer as they're coming out of an implementation with you. So, after they've worked with the project management teams and met their CSM, how is that work stream going? It's also key to mention business reviews. We may do quarterly business reviews with some of our customers. And so, making sure to take stock coming out of those meetings, what was the expectation? Did they see, hear, feel everything that they were expecting to have?   And so, she thinks it's a real combination of both the quantitative surveys, but also those qualitative conversations to probe a bit deeper, where you may not have the opportunity, and just a quick plug in one question or two questions survey that sent via email. Having that face-to-face dialogue, or that phone call or that Zoom video just to meet with a customer and kind of ask some more of those probing questions is definitely key.  She thinks that that is just as important during the beginning and middle phases of the journey with a customer as it is when you're coming up on renewal, so you may be looking at certain health indicators and want to also probe a bit deeper on some of those with customers, “Hey, you know, I've seen that you're expanding in your licences, tell me about how your company is utilizing those?”  Or conversely, you might have a customer that's decided to move away from a portion of your product, “Tell me a bit more about why it is that you're leaving there, what you weren't adopting or finding useful, so that we can learn and bring that back into the business.”   It also helps us from a churn management perspective, make sure that we are thinking about that and building that back into our way that we look at risk and mitigating risks with our customers.    Key Indicators that Organizations Need to Focus On for 2024  Me: So, many different avenues and strategies that we can employ to ensure that we're doing the right kind of measurement. So, we are now in I would say, we're at the end of 2023. And we're embarking on 2024 and a lot has happened in the last couple of years, especially with a global pandemic and all, what are some key things that you found, trends that you've maybe seen just in your own business, as well as with your clients' businesses that you believe if you really want to focus on dominating, navigating that CX space in such a positive way, that your brand has an exceptionally positive reputation and you have so many brand advertisers and evangelists for your business. What are some key indicators that you believe organizations need to focus on as we go into 2024? Where do they need to be giving their attention to?  Michelle stated that she thinks that there's always a focus around personalization of an experience and how you can help customers throughout their journey to better smooth areas that potentially create bumps for them, can that happen through automation, Chat GPT? Can that help it happen through other self-service capabilities that you can serve up to them?  And she also thinks probably goes without being said but ensuring that expectations of customers are properly managed all throughout.  Making sure that you're always having dialogue with the customers' needs in mind, that you're addressing pain points and the more and more that you can address those pain points through self-service, automation, ways that they can just make sure that they are able to get a quick path to value is really key, that frictionless experience for customers.   App, Website or Tool that Michelle Absolutely Can't Live Without in Her Business When asked about online resource that she cannot live without in her business, Michelle stated that for her, obviously Microsoft Teams, they use day in and day out in their business to communicate with their customers, to communicate with their teams internally.  But one other, she would say tool that they use heavily within the customer success management space, is Gainsight. And that is a tool that allows them to bring so much knowledge and power into their organisation. It allows their CSMs to know what right move to make next in terms of how to engage both internally and externally with their customers.  And it's becoming really more and more of a theatre of having a true customer 360 within their organization, so really, that single pane of glass view, if you will, of what their customers are experiencing. And so, if she had to pick one tool, she guesses she'd picked Gainsight because they're using it day in and day out and it's been really paramount to their success.   Books that Have Had the Biggest Impact on Michelle When asked about books that has had an impact, Michelle shared that one book that she did read, it's been a very long time ago. But it was Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence People. She read that during her graduate school programme. And despite that, it's been around for ages, she thinks it really does a great job of cutting to the core of how you can set yourself up to best relate with others through the power of being able to build strong relationships, and making sure that those relationships are built on like a mutual trust and credibility. So, she thinks that that is always relevant, no matter what role you're in, how do you build relationships? How do you help drive influence? So, that's just been a really meaningful book to her throughout the course of her career.  One other thing she was going to add is that she listens to a number of different podcasts, perhaps different than books. But one podcast that she really enjoys is Mel Robbins Podcast, because she thinks she teaches a lot of both professional and personal habits that you can apply to everyday life, how you can really make sure that you're leading a productive and happy lifestyle and that you have that good work life balance. So, if you haven't checked Mel Robbins out, her podcast is great. Me: Two excellent recommendations, Michelle. I totally agree with you about Dale Carnegie's book, the book came out in 1933, literally, many, many years ago, almost 100 years old. But the principles and concepts in that book are still relevant today. And I do listen to Mel's podcasts, and I follow her on most of her social media platforms, love her content. So, excellent recommendations for audience.     Advice for Business Owners and Managers Who Have Great Products and Services but Lack the Constantly Motivated Human Capital  Me: Now, we have a lot of listeners who are business owners and managers who feel they have great products and services. But sometimes they feel like they have constantly demotivated human capital, they lack the human capital that has that constant motivation. And motivation is one of those behaviours or competencies that comes from within, you can encourage it, but you can't actually evoke it or make it happen. So, if you were sitting across the table from that person, those business owners or managers today, what's the one piece of advice that you'd give them to have a successful business having that consistent challenge that they're experiencing? When asked about advice she would give for the lack motivated human capital, Michelle shared that she thinks one of the most important things for her in terms of motivation is always trying to understand from a customer perspective, what it is that they're trying to achieve, because she thinks she gets a lot of motivation out of helping others. And she thinks when you feel like you have a true understanding of the problems that you're trying to solve, what tools you have at your disposal, and you feel like you can harness that power to find a way for those customers to excel and to drive outcomes in their business, that's extremely motivating to her.  Everybody and perhaps new business owners or business owners, she really likes the idea of kind of starting before you're ready, everything has a beginning, right. And it's not going to be perfect, but she thinks the more and more you practice, and the more and more you get into the rhythm, you find that you figure your way through, everything is kind of easy to figureoutable. So, she likes the idea of kind of just starting things before maybe you feel like you've got it completely figured out and reframing things kind of as you work through them. So, that's kind of how she works through times of adversity or new skill sets she needs to kind of build rapidly and that's worked well for her.   What Michelle is Really Excited About Now! When asked about something that she's really excited about, Michelle shared that back over the beginning of the summer, they had a in person leadership seminar that they had done as a leadership team going through kind of the Clifton Strength Finders exercise. And she's done all sorts of disc assessments and different things throughout the course of her career, but she really found that particular assessment very valuable. And for those of the listeners that might not be familiar, it's basically an online assessment you can take, takes about 20-30 minutes. And when you go through it, it ranks your top 5, top 10 and kind of, they call them all 34 of them strengths.  And then you kind of understand where you can lean into a bit more as a leader. And by sharing it with your peers, you can really get a sense of how other people learn, how they like to communicate, how you give and receive feedback. And so, she actually liked that so much within their leadership conversations, she's cascaded that down with her direct reports. And they've had some very, very good conversations about that, she thinks she's just uncovered ways of working with people that she wouldn't have necessarily known.  And it also helps from a leadership perspective, and she thinks managing perspective, understand more the types of skills that people have, the types of things that are motivation factors for them, so that you can really make the most impact of your team. Her top strength coming out of that was individualization, which basically is your ability to kind of take a survey across the landscape and understand which individuals that are best suited for which areas and how to best pull out the different strengths of people you work with.  And so, it was eye opening to see some of the things she might have thought she would have scored higher on versus those that she perhaps has some developmental opportunities with. So, if people haven't taken that, she would highly encourage it, she found it extremely valuable. And she knows her team enjoyed the conversations that they had off the back of the exercise.   Where Can We Find Michelle Online LinkedIn: Michelle McCarthy   Website: https://www.unit4.com/   Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Michelle Uses  When asked about a quote or saying that she tend to revert to during times of adversity or challenge, Michelle stated that she thinks one of the things from Mel Robbins and it's not necessarily a quote, but she has The 5 Second Rule and one of the things she has been trying to do whenever she feels like she's getting off track, or maybe you start to go down a negative path is just to say yourself, “5, 4, 3, 2, 1” and then launch yourself into doing what you next need to do. So, that's from her book The 5 Second Rule: Transform Your Life, Work, and Confidence with Everyday Courage, Mel Robbins. But she's really been trying to use that to break habits and people use it to get themselves out of bed in the morning, from going down a negative path.  So, the other one that she would say she really like, and it's from John Maxwell is, “A leader knows the way, goes the way and shows the way.” And she thinks that's so powerful to remember, it's not just about kind of saying the vision, but it's also about walking the talk. So, she'll leave us with that. Me: Amazing. Thank you so much, Michelle. Now, Michelle, we just want to express our deepest gratitude to you for taking time out of your very busy schedule to kind of hop on this podcast and share with our audience a little bit about your journey, how you got to where you are today, why it is important to ensure that you're measuring for the right things as it relates to improving CX in your business and of course embracing customer centricity as a core value. And then looking at also the frequency of how you do those measurements, and what kind of things you really need to be targeting and focused on at different periods of your business to ensure that you're really delivering on the expectations of your customers and of course, aiming to exceed those expectations to create that long lasting relationship. So, your insights today, your knowledge today, all that you shared with us today, we are extremely grateful. So, thank you so much.    Please connect with us on Twitter @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest   Links •     How to Win Friends & Influence People by Dale Carnegie •     The 5 Second Rule: Transform Your Life, Work, and Confidence with Everyday Courage by Mel Robbins    The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience   Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners  Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience.” The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty. This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately! This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others. Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!

What's Going OnSung by: Marvin GayeMother, motherThere's too many of you cryingBrother, brother, brotherThere's far too many of you dyingYou know we've got to find a wayTo bring some lovin' here todayFather, fatherWe don't need to escalateYou see, war is not the answerFor only love can conquer hateYou know we've got to find a wayTo bring some lovin' here todayPicket lines and picket signsDon't punish me with brutalityTalk to me, so you can seeOh, what's going onWhat's going onwhat's going onwhat's going onIn the mean timeRight on, babyRight onRight onFather, father, everybody thinks we're wrongOh, but who are they to judge usSimply because our hair is longOh, you know we've got to find a wayTo bring some understanding here todayOhPicket lines and picket signsDon't punish me with brutalityTalk to meSo you can seeWhat's going onYa, what's going onTell me what's going onI'll tell you what's going on - UhRight on babyRight on baby Studio Personnel, Recording Engineer: Art Stewart Composer Lyricist: Renaldo Benson Composer Lyricist: Al Cleveland Composer Lyricist: Marvin Gaye.  ℗ A Motown Records Release; ℗ 1971 UMG Recordings, Inc. Released on: 1971-05-21Provided to YouTube by Universal Music Group What the World Needs Now is LoveSung by: Jackie DeShannon What the world needs now is love, sweet love It's the only thing that there's just too little of What the world needs now is love, sweet love No not just for some, but for everyoneLord, we don't need another mountain There are mountains and hillsides enough to climb There are oceans and rivers enough to cross Enough to last 'til the end of timeWhat the world needs now is love, sweet love It's the only thing that there's just too little of What the world needs now is love, sweet love No, not just for some, but for everyoneLord, we don't need another meadow There are cornfields and wheatfields enough to grow There are sunbeams and moonbeams enough to shine Oh listen, Lord, if you want to knowWhat the world needs now is love, sweet love It's the only thing that there's just too little of What the world needs now is love, sweet love No, not just for some, oh, but just for every, every, everyoneSource: MusixmatchSongwriters: Burt F. Bacharach / Hal DavidWhat the World Needs Now Is Love lyrics © New Hidden Valley Music Co., New Hidden Valley Music Company, Casa David Music, New Hidden Valley Music Co, Bmg Rights Management (uk) Ltd (hal David)

Episode 169 of A History of Rock Music in Five Hundred Songs looks at “Piece of My Heart" and the short, tragic life of Janis Joplin. Click the full post to read liner notes, links to more information, and a transcript of the episode. Patreon backers also have a half-hour bonus episode available, on "Spinning Wheel" by Blood, Sweat & Tears. Tilt Araiza has assisted invaluably by doing a first-pass edit, and will hopefully be doing so from now on. Check out Tilt's irregular podcasts at http://www.podnose.com/jaffa-cakes-for-proust and http://sitcomclub.com/ Resources There are two Mixcloud mixes this time. As there are so many songs by Big Brother and the Holding Company and Janis Joplin excerpted, and Mixcloud won't allow more than four songs by the same artist in any mix, I've had to post the songs not in quite the same order in which they appear in the podcast. But the mixes are here — one, two . For information on Janis Joplin I used three biographies -- Scars of Sweet Paradise by Alice Echols, Janis: Her Life and Music by Holly George-Warren, and Buried Alive by Myra Friedman. I also referred to the chapter '“Being Good Isn't Always Easy": Aretha Franklin, Janis Joplin, Dusty Springfield, and the Color of Soul' in Just Around Midnight: Rock and Roll and the Racial Imagination by Jack Hamilton. Some information on Bessie Smith came from Bessie Smith by Jackie Kay, a book I can't really recommend given the lack of fact-checking, and Bessie by Chris Albertson. I also referred to Blues Legacies and Black Feminism: Gertrude “Ma” Rainey, Bessie Smith, and Billie Holiday by Angela Y. Davis And the best place to start with Joplin's music is this five-CD box, which contains both Big Brother and the Holding Company albums she was involved in, plus her two studio albums and bonus tracks. Patreon This podcast is brought to you by the generosity of my backers on Patreon. Why not join them? Transcript Before I start, this episode contains discussion of drug addiction and overdose, alcoholism, mental illness, domestic abuse, child abandonment, and racism. If those subjects are likely to cause you upset, you may want to check the transcript or skip this one rather than listen. Also, a subject I should probably say a little more about in this intro because I know I have inadvertently caused upset to at least one listener with this in the past. When it comes to Janis Joplin, it is *impossible* to talk about her without discussing her issues with her weight and self-image. The way I write often involves me paraphrasing the opinions of the people I'm writing about, in a mode known as close third person, and sometimes that means it can look like I am stating those opinions as my own, and sometimes things I say in that mode which *I* think are obviously meant in context to be critiques of those attitudes can appear to others to be replicating them. At least once, I have seriously upset a fat listener when talking about issues related to weight in this manner. I'm going to try to be more careful here, but just in case, I'm going to say before I begin that I think fatphobia is a pernicious form of bigotry, as bad as any other form of bigotry. I'm fat myself and well aware of how systemic discrimination affects fat people. I also think more generally that the pressure put on women to look a particular way is pernicious and disgusting in ways I can't even begin to verbalise, and causes untold harm. If *ANYTHING* I say in this episode comes across as sounding otherwise, that's because I haven't expressed myself clearly enough. Like all people, Janis Joplin had negative characteristics, and at times I'm going to say things that are critical of those. But when it comes to anything to do with her weight or her appearance, if *anything* I say sounds critical of her, rather than of a society that makes women feel awful for their appearance, it isn't meant to. Anyway, on with the show. On January the nineteenth, 1943, Seth Joplin typed up a letter to his wife Dorothy, which read “I wish to tender my congratulations on the anniversary of your successful completion of your production quota for the nine months ending January 19, 1943. I realize that you passed through a period of inflation such as you had never before known—yet, in spite of this, you met your goal by your supreme effort during the early hours of January 19, a good three weeks ahead of schedule.” As you can probably tell from that message, the Joplin family were a strange mixture of ultraconformism and eccentricity, and those two opposing forces would dominate the personality of their firstborn daughter for the whole of her life.  Seth Joplin was a respected engineer at Texaco, where he worked for forty years, but he had actually dropped out of engineering school before completing his degree. His favourite pastime when he wasn't at work was to read -- he was a voracious reader -- and to listen to classical music, which would often move him to tears, but he had also taught himself to make bathtub gin during prohibition, and smoked cannabis. Dorothy, meanwhile, had had the possibility of a singing career before deciding to settle down and become a housewife, and was known for having a particularly beautiful soprano voice. Both were, by all accounts, fiercely intelligent people, but they were also as committed as anyone to the ideals of the middle-class family even as they chafed against its restrictions. Like her mother, young Janis had a beautiful soprano voice, and she became a soloist in her church choir, but after the age of six, she was not encouraged to sing much. Dorothy had had a thyroid operation which destroyed her singing voice, and the family got rid of their piano soon after (different sources say that this was either because Dorothy found her daughter's singing painful now that she couldn't sing herself, or because Seth was upset that his wife could no longer sing. Either seems plausible.) Janis was pushed to be a high-achiever -- she was given a library card as soon as she could write her name, and encouraged to use it, and she was soon advanced in school, skipping a couple of grades. She was also by all accounts a fiercely talented painter, and her parents paid for art lessons. From everything one reads about her pre-teen years, she was a child prodigy who was loved by everyone and who was clearly going to be a success of some kind. Things started to change when she reached her teenage years. Partly, this was just her getting into rock and roll music, which her father thought a fad -- though even there, she differed from her peers. She loved Elvis, but when she heard "Hound Dog", she loved it so much that she tracked down a copy of Big Mama Thornton's original, and told her friends she preferred that: [Excerpt: Big Mama Thornton, "Hound Dog"] Despite this, she was still also an exemplary student and overachiever. But by the time she turned fourteen, things started to go very wrong for her. Partly this was just down to her relationship with her father changing -- she adored him, but he became more distant from his daughters as they grew into women. But also, puberty had an almost wholly negative effect on her, at least by the standards of that time and place. She put on weight (which, again, I do not think is a negative thing, but she did, and so did everyone around her), she got a bad case of acne which didn't ever really go away, and she also didn't develop breasts particularly quickly -- which, given that she was a couple of years younger than the other people in the same classes at school, meant she stood out even more. In the mid-sixties, a doctor apparently diagnosed her as having a "hormone imbalance" -- something that got to her as a possible explanation for why she was, to quote from a letter she wrote then, "not really a woman or enough of one or something." She wondered if "maybe something as simple as a pill could have helped out or even changed that part of me I call ME and has been so messed up.” I'm not a doctor and even if I were, diagnosing historical figures is an unethical thing to do, but certainly the acne, weight gain, and mental health problems she had are all consistent with PCOS, the most common endocrine disorder among women, and it seems likely given what the doctor told her that this was the cause. But at the time all she knew was that she was different, and that in the eyes of her fellow students she had gone from being pretty to being ugly. She seems to have been a very trusting, naive, person who was often the brunt of jokes but who desperately needed to be accepted, and it became clear that her appearance wasn't going to let her fit into the conformist society she was being brought up in, while her high intelligence, low impulse control, and curiosity meant she couldn't even fade into the background. This left her one other option, and she decided that she would deliberately try to look and act as different from everyone else as possible. That way, it would be a conscious choice on her part to reject the standards of her fellow pupils, rather than her being rejected by them. She started to admire rebels. She became a big fan of Jerry Lee Lewis, whose music combined the country music she'd grown up hearing in Texas, the R&B she liked now, and the rebellious nature she was trying to cultivate: [Excerpt: Jerry Lee Lewis, "Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On"] When Lewis' career was derailed by his marriage to his teenage cousin, Joplin wrote an angry letter to Time magazine complaining that they had mistreated him in their coverage. But as with so many people of her generation, her love of rock and roll music led her first to the blues and then to folk, and she soon found herself listening to Odetta: [Excerpt: Odetta, "Muleskinner Blues"] One of her first experiences of realising she could gain acceptance from her peers by singing was when she was hanging out with the small group of Bohemian teenagers she was friendly with, and sang an Odetta song, mimicking her voice exactly. But young Janis Joplin was listening to an eclectic range of folk music, and could mimic more than just Odetta. For all that her later vocal style was hugely influenced by Odetta and by other Black singers like Big Mama Thornton and Etta James, her friends in her late teens and early twenties remember her as a vocal chameleon with an achingly pure soprano, who would more often than Odetta be imitating the great Appalachian traditional folk singer Jean Ritchie: [Excerpt: Jean Ritchie, "Lord Randall"] She was, in short, trying her best to become a Beatnik, despite not having any experience of that subculture other than what she read in books -- though she *did* read about them in books, devouring things like Kerouac's On The Road. She came into conflict with her mother, who didn't understand what was happening to her daughter, and who tried to get family counselling to understand what was going on. Her father, who seemed to relate more to Janis, but who was more quietly eccentric, put an end to that, but Janis would still for the rest of her life talk about how her mother had taken her to doctors who thought she was going to end up "either in jail or an insane asylum" to use her words. From this point on, and for the rest of her life, she was torn between a need for approval from her family and her peers, and a knowledge that no matter what she did she couldn't fit in with normal societal expectations. In high school she was a member of the Future Nurses of America, the Future Teachers of America, the Art Club, and Slide Rule Club, but she also had a reputation as a wild girl, and as sexually active (even though by all accounts at this point she was far less so than most of the so-called "good girls" – but her later activity was in part because she felt that if she was going to have that reputation anyway she might as well earn it). She also was known to express radical opinions, like that segregation was wrong, an opinion that the other students in her segregated Texan school didn't even think was wrong, but possibly some sort of sign of mental illness. Her final High School yearbook didn't contain a single other student's signature. And her initial choice of university, Lamar State College of Technology, was not much better. In the next town over, and attended by many of the same students, it had much the same attitudes as the school she'd left. Almost the only long-term effect her initial attendance at university had on her was a negative one -- she found there was another student at the college who was better at painting. Deciding that if she wasn't going to be the best at something she didn't want to do it at all, she more or less gave up on painting at that point. But there was one positive. One of the lecturers at Lamar was Francis Edward "Ab" Abernethy, who would in the early seventies go on to become the Secretary and Editor of the Texas Folklore Society, and was also a passionate folk musician, playing double bass in string bands. Abernethy had a great collection of blues 78s. and it was through this collection that Janis first discovered classic blues, and in particular Bessie Smith: [Excerpt: Bessie Smith, "Black Mountain Blues"] A couple of episodes ago, we had a long look at the history of the music that now gets called "the blues" -- the music that's based around guitars, and generally involves a solo male vocalist, usually Black during its classic period. At the time that music was being made though it wouldn't have been thought of as "the blues" with no modifiers by most people who were aware of it. At the start, even the songs they were playing weren't thought of as blues by the male vocalist/guitarists who played them -- they called the songs they played "reels". The music released by people like Blind Lemon Jefferson, Son House, Robert Johnson, Kokomo Arnold and so on was thought of as blues music, and people would understand and agree with a phrase like "Lonnie Johnson is a blues singer", but it wasn't the first thing people thought of when they talked about "the blues". Until relatively late -- probably some time in the 1960s -- if you wanted to talk about blues music made by Black men with guitars and only that music, you talked about "country blues". If you thought about "the blues", with no qualifiers, you thought about a rather different style of music, one that white record collectors started later to refer to as "classic blues" to differentiate it from what they were now calling "the blues". Nowadays of course if you say "classic blues", most people will think you mean Muddy Waters or John Lee Hooker, people who were contemporary at the time those white record collectors were coming up with their labels, and so that style of music gets referred to as "vaudeville blues", or as "classic female blues": [Excerpt: Mamie Smith, "Crazy Blues"] What we just heard was the first big blues hit performed by a Black person, from 1920, and as we discussed in the episode on "Crossroads" that revolutionised the whole record industry when it came out. The song was performed by Mamie Smith, a vaudeville performer, and was originally titled "Harlem Blues" by its writer, Perry Bradford, before he changed the title to "Crazy Blues" to get it to a wider audience. Bradford was an important figure in the vaudeville scene, though other than being the credited writer of "Keep A-Knockin'" he's little known these days. He was a Black musician and grew up playing in minstrel shows (the history of minstrelsy is a topic for another day, but it's more complicated than the simple image of blackface that we are aware of today -- though as with many "more complicated than that" things it is, also the simple image of blackface we're aware of). He was the person who persuaded OKeh records that there would be a market for music made by Black people that sounded Black (though as we're going to see in this episode, what "sounding Black" means is a rather loaded question). "Crazy Blues" was the result, and it was a massive hit, even though it was marketed specifically towards Black listeners: [Excerpt: Mamie Smith, "Crazy Blues"] The big stars of the early years of recorded blues were all making records in the shadow of "Crazy Blues", and in the case of its very biggest stars, they were working very much in the same mould. The two most important blues stars of the twenties both got their start in vaudeville, and were both women. Ma Rainey, like Mamie Smith, first performed in minstrel shows, but where Mamie Smith's early records had her largely backed by white musicians, Rainey was largely backed by Black musicians, including on several tracks Louis Armstrong: [Excerpt: Ma Rainey, "See See Rider"] Rainey's band was initially led by Thomas Dorsey, one of the most important men in American music, who we've talked about before in several episodes, including the last one. He was possibly the single most important figure in two different genres -- hokum music, when he, under the name "Georgia Tom" recorded "It's Tight Like That" with Tampa Red: [Excerpt: Tampa Red and Georgia Tom, "It's Tight Like That"] And of course gospel music, which to all intents and purposes he invented, and much of whose repertoire he wrote: [Excerpt: Mahalia Jackson, "Take My Hand, Precious Lord"] When Dorsey left Rainey's band, as we discussed right back in episode five, he was replaced by a female pianist, Lil Henderson. The blues was a woman's genre. And Ma Rainey was, by preference, a woman's woman, though she was married to a man: [Excerpt: Ma Rainey, "Prove it on Me"] So was the biggest star of the classic blues era, who was originally mentored by Rainey. Bessie Smith, like Rainey, was a queer woman who had relationships with men but was far more interested in other women.  There were stories that Bessie Smith actually got her start in the business by being kidnapped by Ma Rainey, and forced into performing on the same bills as her in the vaudeville show she was touring in, and that Rainey taught Smith to sing blues in the process. In truth, Rainey mentored Smith more in stagecraft and the ways of the road than in singing, and neither woman was only a blues singer, though both had huge success with their blues records.  Indeed, since Rainey was already in the show, Smith was initially hired as a dancer rather than a singer, and she also worked as a male impersonator. But Smith soon branched out on her own -- from the beginning she was obviously a star. The great jazz clarinettist Sidney Bechet later said of her "She had this trouble in her, this thing that would not let her rest sometimes, a meanness that came and took her over. But what she had was alive … Bessie, she just wouldn't let herself be; it seemed she couldn't let herself be." Bessie Smith was signed by Columbia Records in 1923, as part of the rush to find and record as many Black women blues singers as possible. Her first recording session produced "Downhearted Blues", which became, depending on which sources you read, either the biggest-selling blues record since "Crazy Blues" or the biggest-selling blues record ever, full stop, selling three quarters of a million copies in the six months after its release: [Excerpt: Bessie Smith, "Downhearted Blues"] Smith didn't make royalties off record sales, only making a flat fee, but she became the most popular Black performer of the 1920s. Columbia signed her to an exclusive contract, and she became so rich that she would literally travel between gigs on her own private train. She lived an extravagant life in every way, giving lavishly to her friends and family, but also drinking extraordinary amounts of liquor, having regular affairs, and also often physically or verbally attacking those around her. By all accounts she was not a comfortable person to be around, and she seemed to be trying to fit an entire lifetime into every moment. From 1923 through 1929 she had a string of massive hits. She recorded material in a variety of styles, including the dirty blues: [Excerpt: Bessie Smith, "Empty Bed Blues] And with accompanists like Louis Armstrong: [Excerpt: Bessie Smith with Louis Armstrong, "Cold in Hand Blues"] But the music for which she became best known, and which sold the best, was when she sang about being mistreated by men, as on one of her biggest hits, "'Tain't Nobody's Biz-Ness if I Do" -- and a warning here, I'm going to play a clip of the song, which treats domestic violence in a way that may be upsetting: [Excerpt: Bessie Smith, "'Tain't Nobody's Biz-Ness if I Do"] That kind of material can often seem horrifying to today's listeners -- and quite correctly so, as domestic violence is a horrifying thing -- and it sounds entirely too excusing of the man beating her up for anyone to find it comfortable listening. But the Black feminist scholar Angela Davis has made a convincing case that while these records, and others by Smith's contemporaries, can't reasonably be considered to be feminist, they *are* at the very least more progressive than they now seem, in that they were, even if excusing it, pointing to a real problem which was otherwise left unspoken. And that kind of domestic violence and abuse *was* a real problem, including in Smith's own life. By all accounts she was terrified of her husband, Jack Gee, who would frequently attack her because of her affairs with other people, mostly women. But she was still devastated when he left her for a younger woman, not only because he had left her, but also because he kidnapped their adopted son and had him put into a care home, falsely claiming she had abused him. Not only that, but before Jack left her closest friend had been Jack's niece Ruby and after the split she never saw Ruby again -- though after her death Ruby tried to have a blues career as "Ruby Smith", taking her aunt's surname and recording a few tracks with Sammy Price, the piano player who worked with Sister Rosetta Tharpe: [Excerpt: Ruby Smith with Sammy Price, "Make Me Love You"] The same month, May 1929, that Gee left her, Smith recorded what was to become her last big hit, and most well-known song, "Nobody Knows You When You're Down and Out": [Excerpt: Bessie Smith, "Nobody Knows You When You're Down and Out"] And that could have been the theme for the rest of her life. A few months after that record came out, the Depression hit, pretty much killing the market for blues records. She carried on recording until 1931, but the records weren't selling any more. And at the same time, the talkies came in in the film industry, which along with the Depression ended up devastating the vaudeville audience. Her earnings were still higher than most, but only a quarter of what they had been a year or two earlier. She had one last recording session in 1933, produced by John Hammond for OKeh Records, where she showed that her style had developed over the years -- it was now incorporating the newer swing style, and featured future swing stars Benny Goodman and Jack Teagarden in the backing band: [Excerpt: Bessie Smith, "Gimme a Pigfoot"] Hammond was not hugely impressed with the recordings, preferring her earlier records, and they would be the last she would ever make. She continued as a successful, though no longer record-breaking, live act until 1937, when she and her common-law husband, Lionel Hampton's uncle Richard Morgan, were in a car crash. Morgan escaped, but Smith died of her injuries and was buried on October the fourth 1937. Ten thousand people came to her funeral, but she was buried in an unmarked grave -- she was still legally married to Gee, even though they'd been separated for eight years, and while he supposedly later became rich from songwriting royalties from some of her songs (most of her songs were written by other people, but she wrote a few herself) he refused to pay for a headstone for her. Indeed on more than one occasion he embezzled money that had been raised by other people to provide a headstone. Bessie Smith soon became Joplin's favourite singer of all time, and she started trying to copy her vocals. But other than discovering Smith's music, Joplin seems to have had as terrible a time at university as at school, and soon dropped out and moved back in with her parents. She went to business school for a short while, where she learned some secretarial skills, and then she moved west, going to LA where two of her aunts lived, to see if she could thrive better in a big West Coast city than she did in small-town Texas. Soon she moved from LA to Venice Beach, and from there had a brief sojourn in San Francisco, where she tried to live out her beatnik fantasies at a time when the beatnik culture was starting to fall apart. She did, while she was there, start smoking cannabis, though she never got a taste for that drug, and took Benzedrine and started drinking much more heavily than she had before. She soon lost her job, moved back to Texas, and re-enrolled at the same college she'd been at before. But now she'd had a taste of real Bohemian life -- she'd been singing at coffee houses, and having affairs with both men and women -- and soon she decided to transfer to the University of Texas at Austin. At this point, Austin was very far from the cultural centre it has become in recent decades, and it was still a straitlaced Texan town, but it was far less so than Port Arthur, and she soon found herself in a folk group, the Waller Creek Boys. Janis would play autoharp and sing, sometimes Bessie Smith covers, but also the more commercial country and folk music that was popular at the time, like "Silver Threads and Golden Needles", a song that had originally been recorded by Wanda Jackson but at that time was a big hit for Dusty Springfield's group The Springfields: [Excerpt: The Waller Creek Boys, "Silver Threads and Golden Needles"] But even there, Joplin didn't fit in comfortably. The venue where the folk jams were taking place was a segregated venue, as everywhere around Austin was. And she was enough of a misfit that the campus newspaper did an article on her headlined "She Dares to Be Different!", which read in part "She goes barefooted when she feels like it, wears Levi's to class because they're more comfortable, and carries her Autoharp with her everywhere she goes so that in case she gets the urge to break out into song it will be handy." There was a small group of wannabe-Beatniks, including Chet Helms, who we've mentioned previously in the Grateful Dead episode, Gilbert Shelton, who went on to be a pioneer of alternative comics and create the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers, and Shelton's partner in Rip-Off Press, Dave Moriarty, but for the most part the atmosphere in Austin was only slightly better for Janis than it had been in Port Arthur. The final straw for her came when in an annual charity fundraiser joke competition to find the ugliest man on campus, someone nominated her for the "award". She'd had enough of Texas. She wanted to go back to California. She and Chet Helms, who had dropped out of the university earlier and who, like her, had already spent some time on the West Coast, decided to hitch-hike together to San Francisco. Before leaving, she made a recording for her ex-girlfriend Julie Paul, a country and western musician, of a song she'd written herself. It's recorded in what many say was Janis' natural voice -- a voice she deliberately altered in performance in later years because, she would tell people, she didn't think there was room for her singing like that in an industry that already had Joan Baez and Judy Collins. In her early years she would alternate between singing like this and doing her imitations of Black women, but the character of Janis Joplin who would become famous never sang like this. It may well be the most honest thing that she ever recorded, and the most revealing of who she really was: [Excerpt: Janis Joplin, "So Sad to Be Alone"] Joplin and Helms made it to San Francisco, and she started performing at open-mic nights and folk clubs around the Bay Area, singing in her Bessie Smith and Odetta imitation voice, and sometimes making a great deal of money by sounding different from the wispier-voiced women who were the norm at those venues. The two friends parted ways, and she started performing with two other folk musicians, Larry Hanks and Roger Perkins, and she insisted that they would play at least one Bessie Smith song at every performance: [Excerpt: Janis Joplin, Larry Hanks, and Roger Perkins, "Black Mountain Blues (live in San Francisco)"] Often the trio would be joined by Billy Roberts, who at that time had just started performing the song that would make his name, "Hey Joe", and Joplin was soon part of the folk scene in the Bay Area, and admired by Dino Valenti, David Crosby, and Jerry Garcia among others. She also sang a lot with Jorma Kaukonnen, and recordings of the two of them together have circulated for years: [Excerpt: Janis Joplin and Jorma Kaukonnen, "Nobody Knows You When You're Down and Out"] Through 1963, 1964, and early 1965 Joplin ping-ponged from coast to coast, spending time in the Bay Area, then Greenwich Village, dropping in on her parents then back to the Bay Area, and she started taking vast quantities of methamphetamine. Even before moving to San Francisco she had been an occasional user of amphetamines – at the time they were regularly prescribed to students as study aids during exam periods, and she had also been taking them to try to lose some of the weight she always hated. But while she was living in San Francisco she became dependent on the drug. At one point her father was worried enough about her health to visit her in San Francisco, where she managed to fool him that she was more or less OK. But she looked to him for reassurance that things would get better for her, and he couldn't give it to her. He told her about a concept that he called the "Saturday night swindle", the idea that you work all week so you can go out and have fun on Saturday in the hope that that will make up for everything else, but that it never does. She had occasional misses with what would have been lucky breaks -- at one point she was in a motorcycle accident just as record labels were interested in signing her, and by the time she got out of the hospital the chance had gone. She became engaged to another speed freak, one who claimed to be an engineer and from a well-off background, but she was becoming severely ill from what was by now a dangerous amphetamine habit, and in May 1965 she decided to move back in with her parents, get clean, and have a normal life. Her new fiance was going to do the same, and they were going to have the conformist life her parents had always wanted, and which she had always wanted to want. Surely with a husband who loved her she could find a way to fit in and just be normal. She kicked the addiction, and wrote her fiance long letters describing everything about her family and the new normal life they were going to have together, and they show her painfully trying to be optimistic about the future, like one where she described her family to him: "My mother—Dorothy—worries so and loves her children dearly. Republican and Methodist, very sincere, speaks in clichés which she really means and is very good to people. (She thinks you have a lovely voice and is terribly prepared to like you.) My father—richer than when I knew him and kind of embarrassed about it—very well read—history his passion—quiet and very excited to have me home because I'm bright and we can talk (about antimatter yet—that impressed him)! I keep telling him how smart you are and how proud I am of you.…" She went back to Lamar, her mother started sewing her a wedding dress, and for much of the year she believed her fiance was going to be her knight in shining armour. But as it happened, the fiance in question was described by everyone else who knew him as a compulsive liar and con man, who persuaded her father to give him money for supposed medical tests before the wedding, but in reality was apparently married to someone else and having a baby with a third woman. After the engagement was broken off, she started performing again around the coffeehouses in Austin and Houston, and she started to realise the possibilities of rock music for her kind of performance. The missing clue came from a group from Austin who she became very friendly with, the Thirteenth Floor Elevators, and the way their lead singer Roky Erickson would wail and yell: [Excerpt: The 13th Floor Elevators, "You're Gonna Miss Me (live)"] If, as now seemed inevitable, Janis was going to make a living as a performer, maybe she should start singing rock music, because it seemed like there was money in it. There was even some talk of her singing with the Elevators. But then an old friend came to Austin from San Francisco with word from Chet Helms. A blues band had formed, and were looking for a singer, and they remembered her from the coffee houses. Would she like to go back to San Francisco and sing with them? In the time she'd been away, Helms had become hugely prominent in the San Francisco music scene, which had changed radically. A band from the area called the Charlatans had been playing a fake-Victorian saloon called the Red Dog in nearby Nevada, and had become massive with the people who a few years earlier had been beatniks: [Excerpt: The Charlatans, "32-20"] When their residency at the Red Dog had finished, several of the crowd who had been regulars there had become a collective of sorts called the Family Dog, and Helms had become their unofficial leader. And there's actually a lot packed into that choice of name. As we'll see in a few future episodes, a lot of West Coast hippies eventually started calling their collectives and communes families. This started as a way to get round bureaucracy -- if a helpful welfare officer put down that the unrelated people living in a house together were a family, suddenly they could get food stamps. As with many things, of course, the label then affected how people thought about themselves, and one thing that's very notable about the San Francisco scene hippies in particular is that they are some of the first people to make a big deal about what we now  call "found family" or "family of choice". But it's also notable how often the hippie found families took their model from the only families these largely middle-class dropouts had ever known, and structured themselves around men going out and doing the work -- selling dope or panhandling or being rock musicians or shoplifting -- with the women staying at home doing the housework. The Family Dog started promoting shows, with the intention of turning San Francisco into "the American Liverpool", and soon Helms was rivalled only by Bill Graham as the major promoter of rock shows in the Bay Area. And now he wanted Janis to come back and join this new band. But Janis was worried. She was clean now. She drank far too much, but she wasn't doing any other drugs. She couldn't go back to San Francisco and risk getting back on methamphetamine. She needn't worry about that, she was told, nobody in San Francisco did speed any more, they were all on LSD -- a drug she hated and so wasn't in any danger from. Reassured, she made the trip back to San Francisco, to join Big Brother and the Holding Company. Big Brother and the Holding Company were the epitome of San Francisco acid rock at the time. They were the house band at the Avalon Ballroom, which Helms ran, and their first ever gig had been at the Trips Festival, which we talked about briefly in the Grateful Dead episode. They were known for being more imaginative than competent -- lead guitarist James Gurley was often described as playing parts that were influenced by John Cage, but was equally often, and equally accurately, described as not actually being able to keep his guitar in tune because he was too stoned. But they were drawing massive crowds with their instrumental freak-out rock music. Helms thought they needed a singer, and he had remembered Joplin, who a few of the group had seen playing the coffee houses. He decided she would be perfect for them, though Joplin wasn't so sure. She thought it was worth a shot, but as she wrote to her parents before meeting the group "Supposed to rehearse w/ the band this afternoon, after that I guess I'll know whether I want to stay & do that for awhile. Right now my position is ambivalent—I'm glad I came, nice to see the city, a few friends, but I'm not at all sold on the idea of becoming the poor man's Cher.” In that letter she also wrote "I'm awfully sorry to be such a disappointment to you. I understand your fears at my coming here & must admit I share them, but I really do think there's an awfully good chance I won't blow it this time." The band she met up with consisted of lead guitarist James Gurley, bass player Peter Albin, rhythm player Sam Andrew, and drummer David Getz.  To start with, Peter Albin sang lead on most songs, with Joplin adding yelps and screams modelled on those of Roky Erickson, but in her first gig with the band she bowled everyone over with her lead vocal on the traditional spiritual "Down on Me", which would remain a staple of their live act, as in this live recording from 1968: [Excerpt: Big Brother and the Holding Company, "Down on Me (Live 1968)"] After that first gig in June 1966, it was obvious that Joplin was going to be a star, and was going to be the group's main lead vocalist. She had developed a whole new stage persona a million miles away from her folk performances. As Chet Helms said “Suddenly this person who would stand upright with her fists clenched was all over the stage. Roky Erickson had modeled himself after the screaming style of Little Richard, and Janis's initial stage presence came from Roky, and ultimately Little Richard. It was a very different Janis.” Joplin would always claim to journalists that her stage persona was just her being herself and natural, but she worked hard on every aspect of her performance, and far from the untrained emotional outpouring she always suggested, her vocal performances were carefully calculated pastiches of her influences -- mostly Bessie Smith, but also Big Mama Thornton, Odetta, Etta James, Tina Turner, and Otis Redding. That's not to say that those performances weren't an authentic expression of part of herself -- they absolutely were. But the ethos that dominated San Francisco in the mid-sixties prized self-expression over technical craft, and so Joplin had to portray herself as a freak of nature who just had to let all her emotions out, a wild woman, rather than someone who carefully worked out every nuance of her performances. Joplin actually got the chance to meet one of her idols when she discovered that Willie Mae Thornton was now living and regularly performing in the Bay Area. She and some of her bandmates saw Big Mama play a small jazz club, where she performed a song she wouldn't release on a record for another two years: [Excerpt: Big Mama Thornton, "Ball 'n' Chain"] Janis loved the song and scribbled down the lyrics, then went backstage to ask Big Mama if Big Brother could cover the song. She gave them her blessing, but told them "don't" -- and here she used a word I can't use with a clean rating -- "it up". The group all moved in together, communally, with their partners -- those who had them. Janis was currently single, having dumped her most recent boyfriend after discovering him shooting speed, as she was still determined to stay clean. But she was rapidly discovering that the claim that San Franciscans no longer used much speed had perhaps not been entirely true, as for example Sam Andrew's girlfriend went by the nickname Speedfreak Rita. For now, Janis was still largely clean, but she did start drinking more. Partly this was because of a brief fling with Pigpen from the Grateful Dead, who lived nearby. Janis liked Pigpen as someone else on the scene who didn't much like psychedelics or cannabis -- she didn't like drugs that made her think more, but only drugs that made her able to *stop* thinking (her love of amphetamines doesn't seem to fit this pattern, but a small percentage of people have a different reaction to amphetamine-type stimulants, perhaps she was one of those). Pigpen was a big drinker of Southern Comfort -- so much so that it would kill him within a few years -- and Janis started joining him. Her relationship with Pigpen didn't last long, but the two would remain close, and she would often join the Grateful Dead on stage over the years to duet with him on "Turn On Your Lovelight": [Excerpt: Janis Joplin and the Grateful Dead, "Turn on Your Lovelight"] But within two months of joining the band, Janis nearly left. Paul Rothchild of Elektra Records came to see the group live, and was impressed by their singer, but not by the rest of the band. This was something that would happen again and again over the group's career. The group were all imaginative and creative -- they worked together on their arrangements and their long instrumental jams and often brought in very good ideas -- but they were not the most disciplined or technically skilled of musicians, even when you factored in their heavy drug use, and often lacked the skill to pull off their better ideas. They were hugely popular among the crowds at the Avalon Ballroom, who were on the group's chemical wavelength, but Rothchild was not impressed -- as he was, in general, unimpressed with psychedelic freakouts. He was already of the belief in summer 1966 that the fashion for extended experimental freak-outs would soon come to an end and that there would be a pendulum swing back towards more structured and melodic music. As we saw in the episode on The Band, he would be proved right in a little over a year, but being ahead of the curve he wanted to put together a supergroup that would be able to ride that coming wave, a group that would play old-fashioned blues. He'd got together Stefan Grossman, Steve Mann, and Taj Mahal, and he wanted Joplin to be the female vocalist for the group, dueting with Mahal. She attended one rehearsal, and the new group sounded great. Elektra Records offered to sign them, pay their rent while they rehearsed, and have a major promotional campaign for their first release. Joplin was very, very, tempted, and brought the subject up to her bandmates in Big Brother. They were devastated. They were a family! You don't leave your family! She was meant to be with them forever! They eventually got her to agree to put off the decision at least until after a residency they'd been booked for in Chicago, and she decided to give them the chance, writing to her parents "I decided to stay w/the group but still like to think about the other thing. Trying to figure out which is musically more marketable because my being good isn't enough, I've got to be in a good vehicle.” The trip to Chicago was a disaster. They found that the people of Chicago weren't hugely interested in seeing a bunch of white Californians play the blues, and that the Midwest didn't have the same Bohemian crowds that the coastal cities they were used to had, and so their freak-outs didn't go down well either. After two weeks of their four-week residency, the club owner stopped paying them because they were so unpopular, and they had no money to get home. And then they were approached by Bob Shad. (For those who know the film Walk Hard: The Dewey Cox Story, the Bob Shad in that film is named after this one -- Judd Apatow, the film's director, is Shad's grandson) This Shad was a record producer, who had worked with people like Big Bill Broonzy, Sarah Vaughan, Dinah Washington, and Billy Eckstine over an eighteen-year career, and had recently set up a new label, Mainstream Records. He wanted to sign Big Brother and the Holding Company. They needed money and... well, it was a record contract! It was a contract that took half their publishing, paid them a five percent royalty on sales, and gave them no advance, but it was still a contract, and they'd get union scale for the first session. In that first session in Chicago, they recorded four songs, and strangely only one, "Down on Me", had a solo Janis vocal. Of the other three songs, Sam Andrew and Janis dueted on Sam's song "Call on Me", Albin sang lead on the group composition "Blindman", and Gurley and Janis sang a cover of "All Is Loneliness", a song originally by the avant-garde street musician Moondog: [Excerpt: Big Brother and the Holding Company, "All is Loneliness"] The group weren't happy with the four songs they recorded -- they had to keep the songs to the length of a single, and the engineers made sure that the needles never went into the red, so their guitars sounded far more polite and less distorted than they were used to. Janis was fascinated by the overdubbing process, though, especially double-tracking, which she'd never tried before but which she turned out to be remarkably good at. And they were now signed to a contract, which meant that Janis wouldn't be leaving the group to go solo any time soon. The family were going to stay together. But on the group's return to San Francisco, Janis started doing speed again, encouraged by the people around the group, particularly Gurley's wife. By the time the group's first single, "Blindman" backed with "All is Loneliness", came out, she was an addict again. That initial single did nothing, but the group were fast becoming one of the most popular in the Bay Area, and almost entirely down to Janis' vocals and on-stage persona. Bob Shad had already decided in the initial session that while various band members had taken lead, Janis was the one who should be focused on as the star, and when they drove to LA for their second recording session it was songs with Janis leads that they focused on. At that second session, in which they recorded ten tracks in two days, the group recorded a mix of material including one of Janis' own songs, the blues track "Women is Losers", and a version of the old folk song "the Cuckoo Bird" rearranged by Albin. Again they had to keep the arrangements to two and a half minutes a track, with no extended soloing and a pop arrangement style, and the results sound a lot more like the other San Francisco bands, notably Jefferson Airplane, than like the version of the band that shows itself in their live performances: [Excerpt: Big Brother and the Holding Company, "Coo Coo"] After returning to San Francisco after the sessions, Janis went to see Otis Redding at the Fillmore, turning up several hours before the show started on all three nights to make sure she could be right at the front. One of the other audience members later recalled “It was more fascinating for me, almost, to watch Janis watching Otis, because you could tell that she wasn't just listening to him, she was studying something. There was some kind of educational thing going on there. I was jumping around like the little hippie girl I was, thinking This is so great! and it just stopped me in my tracks—because all of a sudden Janis drew you very deeply into what the performance was all about. Watching her watch Otis Redding was an education in itself.” Joplin would, for the rest of her life, always say that Otis Redding was her all-time favourite singer, and would say “I started singing rhythmically, and now I'm learning from Otis Redding to push a song instead of just sliding over it.” [Excerpt: Otis Redding, "I Can't Turn You Loose (live)"] At the start of 1967, the group moved out of the rural house they'd been sharing and into separate apartments around Haight-Ashbury, and they brought the new year in by playing a free show organised by the Hell's Angels, the violent motorcycle gang who at the time were very close with the proto-hippies in the Bay Area. Janis in particular always got on well with the Angels, whose drugs of choice, like hers, were speed and alcohol more than cannabis and psychedelics. Janis also started what would be the longest on-again off-again relationship she would ever have, with a woman named Peggy Caserta. Caserta had a primary partner, but that if anything added to her appeal for Joplin -- Caserta's partner Kimmie had previously been in a relationship with Joan Baez, and Joplin, who had an intense insecurity that made her jealous of any other female singer who had any success, saw this as in some way a validation both of her sexuality and, transitively, of her talent. If she was dating Baez's ex's lover, that in some way put her on a par with Baez, and when she told friends about Peggy, Janis would always slip that fact in. Joplin and Caserta would see each other off and on for the rest of Joplin's life, but they were never in a monogamous relationship, and Joplin had many other lovers over the years. The next of these was Country Joe McDonald of Country Joe and the Fish, who were just in the process of recording their first album Electric Music for the Mind and Body, when McDonald and Joplin first got together: [Excerpt: Country Joe and the Fish, "Grace"] McDonald would later reminisce about lying with Joplin, listening to one of the first underground FM radio stations, KMPX, and them playing a Fish track and a Big Brother track back to back. Big Brother's second single, the other two songs recorded in the Chicago session, had been released in early 1967, and the B-side, "Down on Me", was getting a bit of airplay in San Francisco and made the local charts, though it did nothing outside the Bay Area: [Excerpt: Big Brother and the Holding Company, "Down on Me"] Janis was unhappy with the record, though, writing to her parents and saying, “Our new record is out. We seem to be pretty dissatisfied w/it. I think we're going to try & get out of the record contract if we can. We don't feel that they know how to promote or engineer a record & every time we recorded for them, they get all our songs, which means we can't do them for another record company. But then if our new record does something, we'd change our mind. But somehow, I don't think it's going to." The band apparently saw a lawyer to see if they could get out of the contract with Mainstream, but they were told it was airtight. They were tied to Bob Shad no matter what for the next five years. Janis and McDonald didn't stay together for long -- they clashed about his politics and her greater fame -- but after they split, she asked him to write a song for her before they became too distant, and he obliged and recorded it on the Fish's next album: [Excerpt: Country Joe and the Fish, "Janis"] The group were becoming so popular by late spring 1967 that when Richard Lester, the director of the Beatles' films among many other classics, came to San Francisco to film Petulia, his follow-up to How I Won The War, he chose them, along with the Grateful Dead, to appear in performance segments in the film. But it would be another filmmaker that would change the course of the group's career irrevocably: [Excerpt: Scott McKenzie, "San Francisco (Be Sure to Wear Some Flowers in Your Hair)"] When Big Brother and the Holding Company played the Monterey Pop Festival, nobody had any great expectations. They were second on the bill on the Saturday, the day that had been put aside for the San Francisco acts, and they were playing in the early afternoon, after a largely unimpressive night before. They had a reputation among the San Francisco crowd, of course, but they weren't even as big as the Grateful Dead, Moby Grape or Country Joe and the Fish, let alone Jefferson Airplane. Monterey launched four careers to new heights, but three of the superstars it made -- Otis Redding, Jimi Hendrix, and the Who -- already had successful careers. Hendrix and the Who had had hits in the UK but not yet broken the US market, while Redding was massively popular with Black people but hadn't yet crossed over to a white audience. Big Brother and the Holding Company, on the other hand, were so unimportant that D.A. Pennebaker didn't even film their set -- their manager at the time had not wanted to sign over the rights to film their performance, something that several of the other acts had also refused -- and nobody had been bothered enough to make an issue of it. Pennebaker just took some crowd shots and didn't bother filming the band. The main thing he caught was Cass Elliot's open-mouthed astonishment at Big Brother's performance -- or rather at Janis Joplin's performance. The members of the group would later complain, not entirely inaccurately, that in the reviews of their performance at Monterey, Joplin's left nipple (the outline of which was apparently visible through her shirt, at least to the male reviewers who took an inordinate interest in such things) got more attention than her four bandmates combined. As Pennebaker later said “She came out and sang, and my hair stood on end. We were told we weren't allowed to shoot it, but I knew if we didn't have Janis in the film, the film would be a wash. Afterward, I said to Albert Grossman, ‘Talk to her manager or break his leg or whatever you have to do, because we've got to have her in this film. I can't imagine this film without this woman who I just saw perform.” Grossman had a talk with the organisers of the festival, Lou Adler and John Phillips, and they offered Big Brother a second spot, the next day, if they would allow their performance to be used in the film. The group agreed, after much discussion between Janis and Grossman, and against the wishes of their manager: [Excerpt: Big Brother and the Holding Company, "Ball and Chain (live at Monterey)"] They were now on Albert Grossman's radar. Or at least, Janis Joplin was. Joplin had always been more of a careerist than the other members of the group. They were in music to have a good time and to avoid working a straight job, and while some of them were more accomplished musicians than their later reputations would suggest -- Sam Andrew, in particular, was a skilled player and serious student of music -- they were fundamentally content with playing the Avalon Ballroom and the Fillmore and making five hundred dollars or so a week between them. Very good money for 1967, but nothing else. Joplin, on the other hand, was someone who absolutely craved success. She wanted to prove to her family that she wasn't a failure and that her eccentricity shouldn't stop them being proud of her; she was always, even at the depths of her addictions, fiscally prudent and concerned about her finances; and she had a deep craving for love. Everyone who talks about her talks about how she had an aching need at all times for approval, connection, and validation, which she got on stage more than she got anywhere else. The bigger the audience, the more they must love her. She'd made all her decisions thus far based on how to balance making music that she loved with commercial success, and this would continue to be the pattern for her in future. And so when journalists started to want to talk to her, even though up to that point Albin, who did most of the on-stage announcements, and Gurley, the lead guitarist, had considered themselves joint leaders of the band, she was eager. And she was also eager to get rid of their manager, who continued the awkward streak that had prevented their first performance at the Monterey Pop Festival from being filmed. The group had the chance to play the Hollywood Bowl -- Bill Graham was putting on a "San Francisco Sound" showcase there, featuring Jefferson Airplane and the Grateful Dead, and got their verbal agreement to play, but after Graham had the posters printed up, their manager refused to sign the contracts unless they were given more time on stage. The next day after that, they played Monterey again -- this time the Monterey Jazz Festival. A very different crowd to the Pop Festival still fell for Janis' performance -- and once again, the film being made of the event didn't include Big Brother's set because of their manager. While all this was going on, the group's recordings from the previous year were rushed out by Mainstream Records as an album, to poor reviews which complained it was nothing like the group's set at Monterey: [Excerpt: Big Brother and the Holding Company, "Bye Bye Baby"] They were going to need to get out of that contract and sign with somewhere better -- Clive Davis at Columbia Records was already encouraging them to sign with him -- but to do that, they needed a better manager. They needed Albert Grossman. Grossman was one of the best negotiators in the business at that point, but he was also someone who had a genuine love for the music his clients made.  And he had good taste -- he managed Odetta, who Janis idolised as a singer, and Bob Dylan, who she'd been a fan of since his first album came out. He was going to be the perfect manager for the group. But he had one condition though. His first wife had been a heroin addict, and he'd just been dealing with Mike Bloomfield's heroin habit. He had one absolutely ironclad rule, a dealbreaker that would stop him signing them -- they didn't use heroin, did they? Both Gurley and Joplin had used heroin on occasion -- Joplin had only just started, introduced to the drug by Gurley -- but they were only dabblers. They could give it up any time they wanted, right? Of course they could. They told him, in perfect sincerity, that the band didn't use heroin and it wouldn't be a problem. But other than that, Grossman was extremely flexible. He explained to the group at their first meeting that he took a higher percentage than other managers, but that he would also make them more money than other managers -- if money was what they wanted. He told them that they needed to figure out where they wanted their career to be, and what they were willing to do to get there -- would they be happy just playing the same kind of venues they were now, maybe for a little more money, or did they want to be as big as Dylan or Peter, Paul, and Mary? He could get them to whatever level they wanted, and he was happy with working with clients at every level, what did they actually want? The group were agreed -- they wanted to be rich. They decided to test him. They were making twenty-five thousand dollars a year between them at that time, so they got ridiculously ambitious. They told him they wanted to make a *lot* of money. Indeed, they wanted a clause in their contract saying the contract would be void if in the first year they didn't make... thinking of a ridiculous amount, they came up with seventy-five thousand dollars. Grossman's response was to shrug and say "Make it a hundred thousand." The group were now famous and mixing with superstars -- Peter Tork of the Monkees had become a close friend of Janis', and when they played a residency in LA they were invited to John and Michelle Phillips' house to see a rough cut of Monterey Pop. But the group, other than Janis, were horrified -- the film barely showed the other band members at all, just Janis. Dave Getz said later "We assumed we'd appear in the movie as a band, but seeing it was a shock. It was all Janis. They saw her as a superstar in the making. I realized that though we were finally going to be making money and go to another level, it also meant our little family was being separated—there was Janis, and there was the band.” [Excerpt: Big Brother and the Holding Company, "Bye Bye Baby"] If the group were going to make that hundred thousand dollars a year, they couldn't remain on Mainstream Records, but Bob Shad was not about to give up his rights to what could potentially be the biggest group in America without a fight. But luckily for the group, Clive Davis at Columbia had seen their Monterey performance, and he was also trying to pivot the label towards the new rock music. He was basically willing to do anything to get them. Eventually Columbia agreed to pay Shad two hundred thousand dollars for the group's contract -- Davis and Grossman negotiated so half that was an advance on the group's future earnings, but the other half was just an expense for the label. On top of that the group got an advance payment of fifty thousand dollars for their first album for Columbia, making a total investment by Columbia of a quarter of a million dollars -- in return for which they got to sign the band, and got the rights to the material they'd recorded for Mainstream, though Shad would get a two percent royalty on their first two albums for Columbia. Janis was intimidated by signing for Columbia, because that had been Aretha Franklin's label before she signed to Atlantic, and she regarded Franklin as the greatest performer in music at that time.  Which may have had something to do with the choice of a new song the group added to their setlist in early 1968 -- one which was a current hit for Aretha's sister Erma: [Excerpt: Erma Franklin, "Piece of My Heart"] We talked a little in the last episode about the song "Piece of My Heart" itself, though mostly from the perspective of its performer, Erma Franklin. But the song was, as we mentioned, co-written by Bert Berns. He's someone we've talked about a little bit in previous episodes, notably the ones on "Here Comes the Night" and "Twist and Shout", but those were a couple of years ago, and he's about to become a major figure in the next episode, so we might as well take a moment here to remind listeners (or tell those who haven't heard those episodes) of the basics and explain where "Piece of My Heart" comes in Berns' work as a whole. Bert Berns was a latecomer to the music industry, not getting properly started until he was thirty-one, after trying a variety of other occupations. But when he did get started, he wasted no time making his mark -- he knew he had no time to waste. He had a weak heart and knew the likelihood was he was going to die young. He started an association with Wand records as a songwriter and performer, writing songs for some of Phil Spector's pre-fame recordings, and he also started producing records for Atlantic, where for a long while he was almost the equal of Jerry Wexler or Leiber and Stoller in terms of number of massive hits created. His records with Solomon Burke were the records that first got the R&B genre renamed soul (previously the word "soul" mostly referred to a kind of R&Bish jazz, rather than a kind of gospel-ish R&B). He'd also been one of the few American music industry professionals to work with British bands before the Beatles made it big in the USA, after he became alerted to the Beatles' success with his song "Twist and Shout", which he'd co-written with Phil Medley, and which had been a hit in a version Berns produced for the Isley Brothers: [Excerpt: The Isley Brothers, "Twist and Shout"] That song shows the two elements that existed in nearly every single Bert Berns song or production. The first is the Afro-Caribbean rhythm, a feel he picked up during a stint in Cuba in his twenties. Other people in the Atlantic records team were also partial to those rhythms -- Leiber and Stoller loved what they called the baion rhythm -- but Berns more than anyone else made it his signature. He also very specifically loved the song "La Bamba", especially Ritchie Valens' version of it: [Excerpt: Ritchie Valens, "La Bamba"] He basically seemed to think that was the greatest record ever made, and he certainly loved that three-chord trick I-IV-V-IV chord sequence -- almost but not quite the same as the "Louie Louie" one.  He used it in nearly every song he wrote from that point on -- usually using a bassline that went something like this: [plays I-IV-V-IV bassline] He used it in "Twist and Shout" of course: [Excerpt: The Isley Brothers, "Twist and Shout"] He used it in "Hang on Sloopy": [Excerpt: The McCoys, "Hang on Sloopy"] He *could* get more harmonically sophisticated on occasion, but the vast majority of Berns' songs show the power of simplicity. They're usually based around three chords, and often they're actually only two chords, like "I Want Candy": [Excerpt: The Strangeloves, "I Want Candy"] Or the chorus to "Here Comes the Night" by Them, which is two chords for most of it and only introduces a third right at the end: [Excerpt: Them, "Here Comes the Night"] And even in that song you can hear the "Twist and Shout"/"La Bamba" feel, even if it's not exactly the same chords. Berns' whole career was essentially a way of wringing *every last possible drop* out of all the implications of Ritchie Valens' record. And so even when he did a more harmonically complex song, like "Piece of My Heart", which actually has some minor chords in the bridge, the "La Bamba" chord sequence is used in both the verse: [Excerpt: Erma Franklin, "Piece of My Heart"] And the chorus: [Excerpt: Erma Franklin, "Piece of My Heart"] Berns co-wrote “Piece of My Heart” with Jerry Ragavoy. Berns and Ragavoy had also written "Cry Baby" for Garnet Mimms, which was another Joplin favourite: [Excerpt: Garnet Mimms, "Cry Baby"] And Ragavoy, with other collaborators