Podcasts about chai feldblum

Employers and employees have rights and obligations under Title seven of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. New technical guidance from the EEOC and DOJ tries to clarify how DEI-related initiatives may create unlawful discrimination in workplaces, but it may raise more questions than it answers. My next guest, Chai Feldblum, a former Commissioner of the EEOC, is here to help us sort it out.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome to Season 10 of Down to the Struts! To kick things off, Qudsiya sits down with the indomitable Chai Feldblum. Chai is a civil rights advocate and scholar. For nearly four decades, Chai has fought for the rights of LGBTQ and disability communities through legislative advocacy, teaching, scholarship, government service, and much more. She played an integral role in the drafting of the Americans with Disabilities Act. Qudsiya and Chai talk about Chai's work on the ADA, including the unlikely coalition that she brought together, and so much more.The Art of Legislative Lawyering and the Six Circles Theory of AdvocacyLet us know what you think with a comment or review!Visit our website⁠ ⁠for⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ transcripts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠-- Subscribe to Qudsiya's Substack, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Getting Down To It⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Support the team behind the podcast ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠with a donation⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Despite best intentions, sexual harassment is still a very prevalent issue that impacts the legal profession on a wide, wide basis to this day. In this episode, Rio sits down with the founders of Women Lawyers on Guard to discuss their work to confront sexual harassment, and other issues impacting women in law and what you (yes! You!) can do about it. — Rio Peterson:  Hello, everybody, and welcome to In Brief episode 83, Women Lawyers on Guard. My name is Rio Peterson. I am the Bar Partnership Strategist at ALPS, and today, I'm going to be chatting with two fantastically inspiring women, Cory Amron and Corrine Parver. Cory, Corrine, thank you so much for joining us. It's great to have you.  Corrine Parver:  Thanks so much.  Cory Amron:  Thank you, Rio.  Rio Peterson:  Thank you.  Cory Amron:  I'm really pleased to be here.  Rio Peterson:  Wonderful. So, before we dive in, I know we've got a really interesting conversation ahead of us today, which I've been very looking forward to for the past few weeks, since we had our first chat. But before we started, I wanted to find out if you could tell us a little bit about you, who you are, where you live, where you came from. Corey, why don't we start with you?  Cory Amron:  Okay, great. Alphabetical order. I live in Arlington, Virginia, right outside of Washington, D.C. I've been here for yeah, 30 some-odd years. I'm now retired, but I worked primarily for a number of law firms that, some of which are no longer around, but most recently retired from the firm of Vorys, Sater, Seymour and Pease, which started as a Midwest-based firm, here in D.C.  I have been working over my 40-year legal career not only day-to-day clients, et cetera, but also on women's and diversity issues. So, for instance, I was the chair of the American Bar Association's Commission on Women in the Profession, the second chair. In 1991, I took over right over right as Anita Hill was testifying in the Senate at Clarence Thomas' confirmation hearing. So, that was kind of a trial by fire.  Rio Peterson:  Right.  Cory Amron:  So, I've also had a lot of experience working on sexual harassment and things like that, and then, fast-forward, co-founded Women Lawyers on Guard in 2017.  Rio Peterson:  Great. All right, fantastic. Corrine, how about you?  Corrine Parver:  I'm also a retired lawyer. First career was as a physical therapist for 15 years before going to law school. So, I went to law school primarily because I wanted to work in the health law area. My practice, when I was a partner in a law firm, was geared towards policy, regulations, as opposed to litigation.  After I retired from practicing law, I was a law professor for close to 10 years, where I created the Health Law and Policy program at American University Washington College of Law and enjoyed teaching the young students and remained involved with the law school over the past few years, even though I am retired from actually teaching, and joined forces with Cory and our gang of warriors in 2017 to now be the president of Women Lawyers on Guard Action Network.  Rio Peterson:  Got it. So, you both retired to then go on to do more incredible things in your post-retired life. Fantastic. Now, you mentioned you both founded and you run Women Lawyers on Guard. We know that's a nonprofit organization that's been doing some really especially important work around understanding and addressing sexual harassment in the legal profession, and that's what obviously what we're here to talk about today. So, before we really dig into the deeper part of this conversation, I'd love for the audience to learn a bit more about what Women Lawyers on Guard does. What is your mission? Why don't you tell us a little bit about how everything got started?  Cory Amron:  Okay, so in the end of 2016, I was a member of a national network of women lawyers, and we decided that we really needed to do something, both to protect women's rights that we had worked so hard over 40 plus years, and also expand women's rights into the next couple of years. So, we organized Women Lawyers on Guard that first year, in 2017, to bring together our volunteers, because as I said, we have a network around the country, with the legal needs of other nonprofits.  Corrine and I went around and met with a lot of nonprofits and asked them what their legal needs were, because we weren't quite sure what exactly we wanted to do. We wanted to do something. And frankly, our volunteers didn't know exactly what they wanted to do, either. So, this was sort of marriages made in heaven, and we would match our volunteers with those legal needs.  After about a year or so of doing that, we decided we really needed to focus our areas, and that's when we did some very heavy-duty strategic planning and came up with three areas that we were going to focus on. So, sexual harassment obviously was key, because right at that time, #metoo exploded, but we decided also that we were not going to just do one area, but we also picked women's reproductive rights, which actually at that time was not exploding but is of course now, and gender and workplace equity. Those are the three.  Rio Peterson:  Right. I'm curious to know, how was it that sexual harassment and this area was something you both identified as an area that you wanted to be involved in? Is this something that's impacted you directly in your life? I mean, you both had pretty incredible, long careers, so I suspect that at some point, you may have encountered this.  Corrine Parver:  Well, as Cory said, the #metoo explosion made it even more impressed upon us that we needed to speak up for this particular area, and there were other groups that were focusing on, for example, Hollywood and the restaurant industry, and the marketing and public relations areas. We thought we needed to focus on the legal profession, and that's because we had heard stories for years, the years that we practiced, that this was a concern with people.  We wanted to be able to represent their interests and try to do something about it, and that's how we got really involved in focusing on the legal profession, because no other group was doing that on a national basis. There were some people statewide doing certain surveys and the like, but not on a national basis. And because we were, and are, a national organization, that's what we decided to focus on.  Cory Amron:  And just if I could add too, that when we started to talk to lots of people in the profession when #metoo exploded, and came to determine really that there were those who didn't see it happening in the legal profession, either because well, because it wasn't happening to them, and so they just thought, "Well, we have all of these policies, and we have these trainings, and that's ... we're good to go."  Then, we talked to other people, and not just young people, who said, "Oh my God, let me tell you what happened yesterday to me," or to my colleague, or to somebody I was in the room with, et cetera. It was like, "Ugh." We'll get into our survey, but that's kind of what led us to do that.  Rio Peterson:  Got it. Right. Absolutely. So, really realizing that despite best intentions, this is still a very prevalent issue that impacts the legal profession on a wide, wide basis. So, let's talk quickly a little bit about DWL's mission. I know you mentioned that you focus on three areas, and what is the overarching mission of your organization?  Cory Amron:  Well, we have a very broad mission because again, as I mentioned, we didn't quite know what we were going to do at the beginning. So, our mission is that we are a national network harnessing the power of the law to ... well, to go after and make sure that people have equality, they have justice, and there's equal opportunity for all. So, it's a very broad mission. We have a 501(c)(3), which is the one behind me, and we have a 501(c)(4) which is what's behind Corrine, so that we can do different things in these spaces with the different organizations.  For instance, obviously we do a lot of programming around these topics, and of course with the pandemic, we've been able to do that around the country. We not only sign onto amicus briefs, but we've also written amicus briefs, particularly one in the Dobbs case, on behalf of women lawyer organizations, which of course was ignored. We do studies, obviously we'll talk about them, and initiatives around these various topics.  And of course, we have this network that we activate when needs be, and we also advocate. As I said, we have different arms that we can do different types of things, but we've done lobbying and with letters, advocating to policymakers. We sign petitions, and we get out there and march.  Corrine Parver:  I've had some really interesting experiences doing that. One of the other things that we do also is work in coalition with other groups there from out of the University of Texas, The Council on Women and the Law and the National Conference of Women Bar Associations, and the National Association of Women Lawyers. So, we have done programs with all of those groups and attended various coalition meetings to learn about what these groups are doing. The American Bar association also, as Cory had mentioned earlier, has a commission on women in the profession, and we are looking to collaborate with them, as well.  Rio Peterson:  All right. Fantastic. I know we're kind of deviating just a little bit, but we will definitely be talking about the survey, but I'm curious to know, so obviously, you're doing a lot. You're doing a lot of work, and so is the organization run primarily by volunteers? I'm guessing you have a pretty incredible team.  Corrine Parver:  Yes, we are. We are 100% volunteer-driven, and it's pretty much been the same board of directors that have been together since its inception. We've had some people go into certain government roles that prohibited them from continuing to be on our board, but they all, they continue to support us. We have a Facebook presence. We have a LinkedIn presence, and Instagram, trying to make ourselves known via social media. So, through that, we get our messages out to the various communities.  Rio Peterson:  Got it. Oh, fantastic. Fantastic. It's really wonderful that you're devoting your time to this undertaking. It's fantastic.  Cory Amron:  And we're always looking for more to grow our network.  Rio Peterson:  Fantastic. I think at the end of the chat, we'll have a chance to ... We'll plug and let everyone know where to get ahold of you and how they can participate.  Cory Amron:  That's great. That's super.  Rio Peterson:  All right, so now, we've kind of alluded to a survey a few different times, so I would love to dive into that, because it's really, really fascinating. So, in 2020, I know you published a report titled Still Broken, and that shared the results of the national survey that was conducted by Women Lawyers on Guard, and the intention of the survey was to better understand not so much the prevalence of sexual harassment but rather the experience of those affected by it, in addition to uncovering the impact that this has on the legal profession. So, I would really love to know if you could share with us some of the methodology behind the survey itself, and expand on how the survey is different from typical surveys about sexual harassment.  Corrine Parver:  What we were very fortunate in being able to collaborate with a well-known researcher who is a woman by the name of Dr. Arin Reeves, who is also a lawyer in addition to having her PhD in certain aspects of statistical analyses. We put together a group that went through the actual drafting of the survey questions, and it took us a good couple of months to be able to go back and forth to hone in on all the areas that we wanted to investigate.  Rio Peterson:  Right.  Corrine Parver:  Cory?  Cory Amron:  Yeah, so what else? My job actually was sending this out and trying to get people to respond it. So, it was not a survey where it was a closed box of respondents. It was a survey where we were just trying to get as many people as we could to respond to it, both women and men. Lo and behold, we did get a representative sample, even though we hadn't put that sample together, but we analyzed it afterwards and compared it to the demographics that the ABA keeps about lawyers, and was very representative of the box of the profession and where people were geographically, and ages and things like that. So, it was, we felt, a pretty good picture of what was going on.  We were also, because we asked people to tell us the sort of 10-year tranche when something that they were talking about in the survey occurred, we were able to measure change over time, and I think that's one of the things about the survey that's been extremely valuable, to be able to say, "This was like this, and now it's like this."  Corrine Parver:  We also gave the respondents the opportunity to comment throughout the survey questions. So, when it came time to look at an issue of great import, we allowed comments.  When we collated all the information, we gathered literally hundreds of different comments from our respondents, and included some of the quotes from their comments in an appendix in the Still Broken report. So, I would encourage everyone who listens to this podcast to actually go online to our website and read the report, and also the appendices, so that they can see the lasting effect of some of the experiences that they went through.  Rio Peterson:  Absolutely, and that's something that really stood out to me when I was reading the report. I think it's very often that we overlook the context surrounding these types of experiences, and I found that that really just added so much depth to understanding the issue and just understanding the experiences of those who have been impacted by sexual harassment in their workplace and just in all different ways. It was really unique, I think, the way that you've approached this. Yeah. Can you share with us some of the results of the study?  Cory Amron:  Yes, absolutely. Well, first, I guess I wanted to say some of the positive things that we saw. There were some. For instance, we asked about the culture of harassment within the person's employment setting, and as I mentioned, these are settings all across the board, everything from the judiciary to academia, to law firms and associations, the government, et cetera.  What we found was that, at the very least ... We gave them choices. They could say it was often part of the culture. In other words, it was just ubiquitous. Or they could say it was part of the culture, so it was within certain departments, or groups, or whatever. Or they could say it was rare, rarely manifested itself.  So, 30 years ago, we found that the respondents said 51% of these incidents were often, often part of the culture, 38% just various departments, and only 10% was it rare. Now, we've found, and these will be easier to see when the people read the report, 25% was often. So, it went from 51% to 25% was often.  Rio Peterson:  Wow.  Cory Amron:  So, that actually shows that there is change, and that the change is for the better. However, they also said that 48% part of the culture. So, if you add often and part together, you find what you see is that 30 years ago, 89% of these cultures had either often or in some places in the employment setting, whereas now, it's 73%, right?  Rio Peterson:  Yeah.  Cory Amron:  So, it's better, but it's obviously not right. So, that's one of the more positive aspects. Another positive aspect we saw was that, we asked about, in one place, who was doing the harassing. We found that a lot less now from professors in law school and a lot less now from judges in court. However, partners-  Corrine Parver:  And there's always a however.  Rio Peterson:  There's always a however, yeah.  Cory Amron:  However, partners and supervisors still kind of similar statistics from 30 years ago, and now, there's maybe somewhat more from clients.  Corrine Parver:  Another positive finding was that, in comparison over the 30-year span that we asked about, is that there were fewer sexual assaults and rapes nowadays than occurred in the past, although I think what we saw an increase in was a lot of verbal comments, name-calling such as the like. So, there was a plus on one side, but then again, the bubble expanded in another area where there is more name-calling and appearance criticisms, et cetera.  Cory Amron:  So, some of the negative results that we found were, as we mentioned, it's still insidious, and we called it insidious and alarming, the incidents. We'll talk about some of these things later, but the barriers to reporting were absolutely identical today as they were 30 years ago, things like, they didn't think they would be believed, or they thought they'd be retaliated against, nothing was going to happen, et cetera.  The price to the people who were harassed, and by the way, most of these people are women, not all of them, but most of them, was just devastating, and long-lasting. I mean, there was one quote where, "Even though this happened once while I was a law student over 30 years ago, it still haunts me."  So, the consequences to the people who are harassed, long-lasting anxiety in the workplace, fear of retaliation, loss of productivity, loss of confidence, and in the entire workplace, you find loss of productivity, anxiety, et cetera, things like that. So, the consequences to the workplace, even if it's not just the people who are harassed, is consequential, and in fact so consequential that we made a determination, not statistically, but that the consequences to the people who were harassed was greater than the people who were doing the harassing.  Rio Peterson:  Right. Right, and unfortunately, that sounds ... Yeah. That sounds not surprising.  Cory Amron:  Yeah, unfortunately.  Corrine Parver:  Another major finding that was a little bit surprising to us was that people at every level of the profession have experienced harassment of one form or another. Professors, judges have responded to us that in their capacity at really the highest levels of the profession still have experienced that kind of harassment.  Cory Amron:  Partners, general counsel.  Rio Peterson:  Yes. I think that was something that really disappointed and surprised me deeply. You would think that, once you reach a certain level in your career, you maybe garner enough respect that that type of behavior is curbed in others, but that doesn't seem to be the case, and I definitely found that to be very surprising and discouraging, in a lot of ways. I mean, you work really, really hard to get to where you are, and you still have to [inaudible 00:25:49] that same sort of nonsense, it's very disappointing. Yeah.  Cory Amron:  Yeah. I think we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that, at least the way that we look at this, that sexual harassment is not a sexual thing. It's a control thing. And so people find ways to control other people, whether those people are partners or associates, or supervisors, or general counsel, whatever. This is a tool that some people use to control others. So yes, it's somewhat surprising, but maybe not so if you look at it through that lens.  Rio Peterson:  Right. Absolutely. That's an excellent, excellent way to think about it. Was there any other findings that you both found surprising?  Corrine Parver:  I think the numbers that we were able to calculate on the issue of reporting sexual harassment, that was a bit surprising, that the vast majority of people don't report. Either they don't have the right circumstances in their place of employment for them to report an incident. For example, if there is someone working in a small law firm, and there is on HR department, or even if there is, it could be the spouse of one of the senior partners, or the named partner of the small firm. How do you go about doing the reporting in that circumstance? So, the numbers were really quite staggering, as far as many people not reporting incidents.  Cory Amron:  It was something like 86% currently are not reported.  Rio Peterson:  Wow.  Cory Amron:  Mm-hmm.  Rio Peterson:  Wow. That's a very large number. So, I know that the goal of this study is not only to understand these experiences, but also to take these findings and use them to impact some kind of positive change in the legal professional. So, I'm curious to know, thinking about all these points that we've just touched on, what were some of the recommendations that came about as a result of the survey?  Cory Amron:  Yeah, go ahead.  Corrine Parver:  No, go ahead.  Cory Amron:  No, you. No, you.  Corrine Parver:  There's so much that we want to say, we want to make sure we get it all in.  Cory Amron:  Right, right, right. Well, I just want to mention three, three recommendations. There were a lot of recommendations, and Corrine, please pick up after I finish. The three that I want to mention are the reporting, because of just the terrible statistics, something we call transparency, and also individual accountability.  So, the reporting, you can have the greatest policies, and training, and all that in the world, but if people don't feel comfortable reporting, and of course all the barriers that we just mentioned, then you're not going to hear about it. You're not going to be able to fix it. So, you need not only better reporting mechanisms, you need multiple reporting mechanisms, and you need support for reporting. That somewhat goes to the culture, so that has to come from the top down. I've heard male general counsels say that if you put better reporting mechanisms into place and your reporting goes up, you're actually doing a good job, because now, you're finding out about things that were happening that you did not know about before because there were too many barriers. So, reporting.  The second thing is transparency, and what that means is what the workplace knows. Oftentimes, in the statistics that we found from the survey, we found that even in the 14% of incidences that were reported, 50% of those, there was absolutely no consequence, and another 20%, the person who'd been harassed was never told what the consequences were.  So, knowing what happens and what steps the employer took is key, I think, in first of all creating a culture of A, reporting, and B, a lot less sexual harassment, but it also, everybody knows that it happened. I mean, if the employer thinks that this is under wraps and, "I'm doing my privacy thing by not telling anybody what we did," which employers do say, "Oh, privacy, and we can't tell anybody," everybody knows what has happened, and everybody needs to know that something was done about it. And it doesn't always have to be the person was fired, okay?  Which gets to individual accountability. In the most egregious cases, the person actually is let go, and if it's a law firm, sometimes what happens is they just go across the street with their clients, leaving the firm to clean up the mess, because now, there is not only somebody who's been harassed, but now, you have ... and particularly because a lot of these people are rainmakers, so you're leaving behind a lot of people who now have no work to do. And in the worst possible case, people are suing employer, and the employer now has to come up with funds to settle these lawsuits. Sometimes, the individual goes off Scott free.  So, there needs to be individual accountability. We've been looking and talking to a lot of people about the ethics requirements and disciplinary requirements, and that's okay, as far as it goes, but there has to be a lot more thought given to how to make sure that the individual is accountable for what they've done.  Corrine Parver:  So, the consequences really aren't just for the individual who was harassed, but to the location of the employment, the place of employment, whether it's even government, or a small firm, or a large firm. The business imperative exists for companies to act properly in informing the employees or partners, but the people in the workplace what has occurred, because the gossip will permeate the institution. People will know, as Cory mentioned, and so the consequences financially and otherwise are of concern.  Cory Amron:  But there are also a lot of positive things that employers can do to get ahead of the situation before it gets to that point. So, positive reinforcement for mentoring and for let's say 360 reviews to try to figure out what's going on, to putting in place conversations about what is appropriate, what is not appropriate in this particular organization. I know of general counsels who go, and magic partners, who go around to all of their offices to lead by example and talk about what the culture of the place is. So, positive reinforcement, not just always negative consequences.  Corrine Parver:  Two important recommendations that really laid the foundation for the next initiative that came out through the publication of the report and the survey findings, is that we need to come up with a creative way in order to make a shift in the landscape. Not that the teachings and videos for example that companies use to inform their employees about the latest EEOC regs or what has happened from the Supreme Court in cases, what the obligations are, the dos and don'ts, focusing mainly on the don'ts, the recommendations to engage in conversations with primarily, at least initially, with men, to involve men and to have men become active allies for their female colleagues. Out of those recommendations came our Conversations With Men initiative.  Rio Peterson:  Yes. Yes, absolutely, which is I thought just so creative. So, why don't we just, yeah, let's dive into it. Would you like to tell us a bit about it? The initiative is Conversations With Men, and so what does that look like?  Corrine Parver:  A good segue into it.  Rio Peterson:  Segue.  Corrine Parver:  Which is still going. The power of male allyship is, we deem to be, quite significant and crucial, and a lot of the work that's being done in the legal profession on these issues has been done by women, primarily. You'll have a lot of women's initiatives in law firms, women in charge of mentoring and education that really has nothing to do with the practice of law but working in legal employment settings. So, that has been something that we wanted to make sure that we were able to develop an initiative that would address those issues.  Cory Amron:  Yeah, and we did a lot of research just looking at who was doing what and what exactly were they doing in the male allyship space. We talked to some of the experts, people who've written books on the topic, and we convened some thought leaders to talk to us about what we might be able to do.  We also convened what we called an expert taskforce. We had people on that taskforce like Chai Feldblum, who was an EEOC commissioner. She was the author of the seminal work on sexual harassment in the workplace for the EEOC. Corrine mentioned that our Still Broken survey was spearheaded by Dr. Arin Reeves. We got her also to help us structure these conversations, because we wanted them to be open and honest with prompts and very thoughtful information.  But we also decided, with the help of that expert task force, that the facilitator should be ... We knew the facilitator was going to be a professional, but we decided that it was going to be a male. We thought that was important because we wanted no barrier to honest conversation. If they wanted to talk about their locker rooms, go for it, okay?  But we couldn't find a male facilitator that had this expertise. I mean, there's just a tiny handful of these people. So, we paired up a professional facilitator, who was actually a clinical law professor at Harvard of facilitation and mediation, we paired him up with Dr. Reeves, and together with Women Lawyers on Guard, we structured the sessions.  Rio Peterson:  Right. Let's talk a little bit more about those sessions. What did the mechanics of those meetings look like? I know this is still, this project is ongoing. So, how did it start? What was the first couple sessions like?  Corrine Parver:  Well, we decided that we would ask our network of women lawyers to nominate men to participate in the focus groups. We sent letters to ... Once we had the information about the men they were going to nominate, we realized quickly that everybody was very enthusiastic and accepted the invitation almost instantly.  Rio Peterson:  It's what you planned, right? [inaudible 00:39:46].  Corrine Parver:  Right. So, we convened focus groups of 10 men, and each of the focus groups met twice. They had an initial meeting with the facilitator. We also had a male note-taker who was introduced at the start of the session and then sort of was blank space afterwards, so that we were able to get notes from each of the sessions.  Cory Amron:  Anonymous, by the way.  Rio Peterson:  Right.  Corrine Parver:  The people did not know each other, who were in the groups. We made sure that the groups were diverse in every respect you could think, area of the country, legal place of employment, seniority, and the like.  Cory Amron:  Race, ethnicity.  Corrine Parver:  Ethnicity. Yeah. We tried to over every-  Cory Amron:  We had gay guys. We had a disabled person. Yeah.  Corrine Parver:  We had professors. We had judges, partners in law firms, general counsel of corporations. So, we had 50 people in the five focus groups. They met twice officially, and the facilitator had a curriculum and encouraged ... Really, it wasn't a lecture type of curriculum. It wasn't professorial. It was a true conversations that were structured over issues of sexual harassment.  Rio Peterson:  Right, and so for the first session, they would have a discussion and talk about things, and then what happened in the second session?  Cory Amron:  Well, first of all, before they got to the first session, they were told that they should read Still Broken.  Rio Peterson:  Got it.  Cory Amron:  We gave them a bunch of resources to look at, but Still Broken was at the top of the list. So, the conversation centered around what was happening and what they had read, what they had experienced, the types of prompts that was structuring the discussion. By and large, these were guys who obviously had ... well, had been nominated, right? So, they wanted to be there. By and large, they were shocked and credulous. They were just like, "Wow, really?" Because again, they were the ones that really weren't seeing it, for the most part. There were some that were working in their places of employment on these issues, but for the most part, these were people who were not seeing it.  So, in between the first and the second session, they were asked to talk to women in their lives, their relatives, their colleagues at work, their neighbors, whatever, just to ask them, "Just talk to me about sexual harassment." Not were you sexually harassed, but just talk to me.  To a person, when they came back into the second session, they were blown away. Absolutely blown away. They had no idea that their wife, let's say, this was the way she comported herself, or this is what the experiences that she has seen, or just that part of their life, their lived life. So, they were extremely, very, very impacted by this.  Rio Peterson:  Right. So, you mentioned that initially, this was two sessions, but that these conversations are still continuing today. Can you tell me a little bit about that?  Corrine Parver:  Well, we had provided the men with some active ally actions that they could take once the two sessions, two conversations were complete, and it was an extensive list of things that they could do. About a dozen or so of the 50 men decided that they wanted to continue the conversations with the facilitator, and they've been meeting now how long, Cory? Over a year.  Cory Amron:  Over a year and a half.  Corrine Parver:  Yeah, with a facilitator.  Cory Amron:  Every month.  Corrine Parver:  Once a month, every month. We are now seriously trying to plan the next cohort of 50 men.  Rio Peterson:  Yeah. Did it surprise you that they wanted to continue the conversation?  Corrine Parver:  Yeah.  Rio Peterson:  Yes?  Corrine Parver:  Yeah. Yeah. We were constantly getting feedback, whether through the notes from the note-taker or from our conversations with the facilitator, which we held religiously. Some of the discussions also entered into the area of gender discrimination and the role of women in the legal profession, which was fine with us, if the conversations expanded to include that type of discussion. The facilitator always brought the focus back into what are the active ally actions were they engaging it, et cetera? So, they didn't veer too far off of the topic, but they obviously were seeing changes that they were able to impart within their places of employment, and they were just enjoying the comradery that was developed and, "This is what happened to me and my firm," type of discussions.  Rio Peterson:  Right.  Cory Amron:  One thing that I also appreciated and would not have otherwise appreciated was how they talked about the nuances of what maybe ... Like if you were a bystander, and you saw this happening, they brought a lot of that into these discussions and talked over, "Oh, what should I have done?" Or, "What did I do, and was that the right thing to do?"  Talking about these nuances, I think made them realize that you know, not every situation is the same, and you just don't have one script that you can work off of in every single situation. So, I thought that was fascinating, that they came to that realization and were very, very attuned to not necessarily what they wanted to do, but what the person that was being harassed, I hesitate to say needed, but from that person's perspective, what might the bystander do?  Rio Peterson:  Yeah, what could be helpful or useful in the moment.  Cory Amron:  Yes. Right.  Corrine Parver:  Which is what led us to develop a Bystander Intervention Toolkit, which we're in the process of finalizing.  Rio Peterson:  Oh, fantastic. I think that's such an important way to help people frame a situation, is perhaps not so much think about yourself in that moment, but how can I be of service? How can I be helpful? And also, the importance of recognizing it's a dynamic issue. There is not a one-size-fits-all solution for every situation, and that's a really powerful tool. I mean, it sounds like it's inspired some pretty tangible, positive change, really, at the end of the day.  Corrine Parver:  Right.  Rio Peterson:  I'm curious to know, how does that make you both feel? Do you feel accomplished and fantastic about that? Because you should. It's pretty amazing.  Corrine Parver:  Thank you. I think the bystander toolkit will really be of help, particularly when these occurrences take place in a group setting. One of the things, the surprising things also that we discovered was that it's not just in a single office with one-on-one interactions. It could happen, and does happen, in group settings.  So, if you're a fella, and there's five guys around and one woman, and someone makes an untoward comment, how should you react? What are the things that you could say or do in the moment to diffuse a situation or, "We don't talk like that around here," or things like that, you know? "That's very surprising you should make a comment like that," and the like.  Cory Amron:  And actually, sometimes they are coming to the realization that the person who's being harassed has it under control and that it's best not to be the knight in shining armor zapping in or whatever, being patronized or whatever. So, that's also an important perspective, trying to discern the difference between those situations. It's hard.  Rio Peterson:  Right, trying to navigate the nuances.  Cory Amron:  Mm-hmm.  Rio Peterson:  Certainly not a map we're all just born with, so it's very, very important. Oh, that's fantastic. So, we've got the bystander toolkit coming up, where you're working on facilitating a second round of conversations with men. What else is next? Is there more on the horizon for Women Lawyers on Guard?  Cory Amron:  Go for it.  Corrine Parver:  Well, I don't know that we can talk too much without getting our board approval on that.  Rio Peterson:  So yes, but to be coming soon.  Corrine Parver:  But I think in the other areas that we're working on, the reproductive healthcare rights, is a never-ending avenue for us to give our assistance. There's been so many court cases that have altered the landscape, and so that is something that's taking up a fair amount of our time right now, as well.  Rio Peterson:  Right. Absolutely. It's a massive mountain to scale, that one. Yeah. Well, this is fantastic. I know we've got just a couple more minutes left. I would love for you to tell us how people can get involved with Women Lawyers on Guard. Where can they find you? How can they lend their support?  Corrine Parver:  That's a wonderful question to end with.  Cory Amron:  Well first, if there's anybody who would like to nominate a guy for our upcoming sessions, we would love to hear from them. My email address is C Amron, so camron, C-A-M-R-O-N @womenlawyersonguard.org. So, we'd really love to hear your nominations.  Corrine Parver:  And we'd love to have you join us. There is no fee to join Women Lawyers on Guard. The website is www.womenlawyersonguard.org, where you can see all the reports of the work that we've accomplished thus far and also take a look at some of the amicus briefs that we've participated in. That's all online. We would love to have your listeners join our mighty band.  Rio Peterson:  And we would love for them to do that, as well, and we'll make sure to put the website and your email, Cory, in the show notes so that if anybody would like to get in touch, they have an easy way to do that, and definitely nominate someone to participate in more Conversations With Men. That'd be fantastic. Well, thank you both so much. This has been really incredible. It's really incredible work that you're both doing, and I'm very happy we got to discuss it today.  Cory Amron:  Well, thank you.  Corrine Parver:  Thank you. We really appreciate you inviting us.  Cory Amron:  Yes, and ALPS has been a stalwart supporter of ours, so we're very appreciative about that.  Rio Peterson:  Oh, wonderful. Well, hopefully once you have the toolkit out and the next round of Conversations With Men, we can do this again, keep the conversation going.  Cory Amron:  Sounds good.  Corrine Parver:  That's a date. Thank you.  Rio Peterson:  Wonderful. All right. Thank you so much, everyone, and this has been episode 83 of In Brief, and we will see you next time. There we go. We're done.  Corrine Parver:  Yay.  Rio Peterson:  Wonderful. Oh, thank you both so much. That was fantastic.  Corrine Parver:  I'm glad that you found it worthwhile. Good.  Rio Peterson:  Yeah, absolutely.  Cory Amron:  Yeah. Thank you for your enthusiasm. It wasn't just like, "Oh, let's see, what's the next question?"  Rio Peterson:  Well, it's definitely something I feel is very important, and it hits close to home in a lot of ways. I'm just so blown away just reading through Still Broken and the Conversations With Men. It's just such a fascinating approach, too. The way you've tackled this issue, it's really inspiring. I've really, really enjoyed digging into your work and getting to talk with you both about this.  Corrine Parver:  Thank you.  Cory Amron:  Thank you, especially because there have been some who have looked at the construct that we're trying to bring forth, which is active male allies, and said that they can't ... not that they can't support the initiative, but they can't use their DEI dollars for it because it doesn't either A, they can't see the obvious impact on women, or B, they can't spend money on something that is just male-oriented. I'm like, "But you don't see the tunnel."  Corrine Parver:  Yeah, very frustrating.  Cory Amron:  Yeah, it is. It's very frustrating.  Rio Peterson:  There's a very larger picture you're not seeing there.  Cory Amron:  Yeah.  Corrine Parver:  And for us, the funding issue becomes an issue. It's very important that we can be able to garner sufficient funds to keep these programs going, because we don't have a fee to belong to the organization. So, like what ALPS has given us in contributions has been very important.  Rio Peterson:  All right. Well, hopefully we can keep that going, keep that support coming.  Cory Amron:  Thank you so, so much.  Corrine Parver:  Thank you.  Rio Peterson:  Absolutely.  Cory Amron:  Great to see you.  Rio Peterson:  Great to see you both. So, I will let you know when the episode publishes and we can tag you in the social posts, and get the word out there. Yeah.  Cory Amron:  Great. Great.  Corrine Parver:  Thank you.  Cory Amron:  Great. Thank you.  Rio Peterson:  Thank you both so much. I hope you guys have a great day.  Cory Amron:  Thanks. You, too.  Corrine Parver:  Bye.  Rio Peterson:  Bye-bye. 

Transcript: https://bit.ly/AIAe036Chai Feldblum is a long-time civil rights advocate and scholar. As Legislative Counsel to the ACLU AIDS Project in the late 1980s, Chai played a leading role in drafting and negotiating the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990. She later played the same role on the ADA Amendments Act of 2008. Chai also led the drafting and negotiating of the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, a bill to prohibit discrimination in employment on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity. As a law professor at Georgetown Law, Chai created a Federal Legislation Clinic where she and her students helped non-profit organizations advance their legislative social justice goals. The Clinic's clients included various disability organizations and Catholic Charities USA. Chai also founded and directed Workplace Flexibility 2010, an effort designed to bring employers and employees together on policy approaches to advance workplace flexibility.Chai served as a Commissioner of the Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) from 2010 to 2019 where she played a significant role in establishing the rights of LGBTQ employees under existing sex discrimination laws, enhancing the employment of people with disabilities, protecting the rights of pregnant workers, and leading a proactive effort to prevent harassment in the workplace. From 2019 to 2021, Chai was a Partner and Director of Workplace Culture Consulting at Morgan Lewis, where she helped employers create safe, respectful, diverse and inclusive workplaces. She continues to consult with Morgan Lewis on selected projects. In 2021, Chai became a free-lance civil rights advocate. She assists with legislative and regulatory work regarding civil rights, particularly for LGBTQ+ people, people with disabilities and women. She also serves as Vice Chair of the AbilityOne Commission, a federal agency devoted to the employment of people with significant disabilities.Chai attended Barnard College and Harvard Law School and clerked for Judge Frank M. Coffin on the First Circuit Court of Appeals and for U.S. Supreme Court Justice Harry A. Blackmun.Connect with Chai:https://www.chaifeldblum.com/https://twitter.com/chaifeldblumhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/chai-feldblum-8882894/Connect with the Rocky Mountain ADA Center at https://rockymountainada.org/ or find us on social media. Don't forget to subscribe, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify or anywhere else you get your podcasts!

Today marks 50 years since Title IX was signed into law, banning sex-based discrimination in educational programs and activities at federally funded institutions. The statute itself is only 37 words long, but that one sentence expanded educational opportunities for millions of women. Before Title IX, many educational institutions set quotas for the number of women admitted, or barred them from access altogether. As a result, according to a Census report, in 1970, only 8 percent of women were college graduates compared to 14 percent of men. And according to the most recent census data, a greater percentage of current U.S. college graduates are women than men.  The statute extends far beyond access and admissions – it applies to discrimination in classrooms and grading, extracurricular programs and activities, and sexual harassment and assault on school campuses.  Title IX has also been used to protect LGBTQ students, too. Last week, the Department of Education issued a policy directive stating that Title IX protects against discrimination towards students on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity. To get a better understanding of the legal framework provided by Title IX, we spoke with Chai Feldblum, long-time civil rights activist, scholar, and former Commissioner of the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. And shortly after Title IX was passed, the law set in motion equity in high school and collegiate athletics – opening new opportunities for women in sports and attempting to level the playing field.   According to a report from the Women's Sports Foundation, in 1972 there were about 300,000 women participating in high school athletics. In the 2018-2019 school year, that number was nearly 3.5 million…. And at the college level, the number of women athletes competing on teams rose. In 1972, they made up just 15 percent of college athletes. By the 2020-2021 school year, they made up 44 percent.For more on Title IX and sports and the gaps that still exist, we spoke with Donna Lopiano, the president and founder of Sports Management Resources, the former CEO of the Women's Sports Foundation, and a National Sports Hall of Fame 4- sport athlete.

Today marks 50 years since Title IX was signed into law, banning sex-based discrimination in educational programs and activities at federally funded institutions. The statute itself is only 37 words long, but that one sentence expanded educational opportunities for millions of women. Before Title IX, many educational institutions set quotas for the number of women admitted, or barred them from access altogether. As a result, according to a Census report, in 1970, only 8 percent of women were college graduates compared to 14 percent of men. And according to the most recent census data, a greater percentage of current U.S. college graduates are women than men.  The statute extends far beyond access and admissions – it applies to discrimination in classrooms and grading, extracurricular programs and activities, and sexual harassment and assault on school campuses.  Title IX has also been used to protect LGBTQ students, too. Last week, the Department of Education issued a policy directive stating that Title IX protects against discrimination towards students on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity. To get a better understanding of the legal framework provided by Title IX, we spoke with Chai Feldblum, long-time civil rights activist, scholar, and former Commissioner of the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. And shortly after Title IX was passed, the law set in motion equity in high school and collegiate athletics – opening new opportunities for women in sports and attempting to level the playing field.   According to a report from the Women's Sports Foundation, in 1972 there were about 300,000 women participating in high school athletics. In the 2018-2019 school year, that number was nearly 3.5 million…. And at the college level, the number of women athletes competing on teams rose. In 1972, they made up just 15 percent of college athletes. By the 2020-2021 school year, they made up 44 percent.For more on Title IX and sports and the gaps that still exist, we spoke with Donna Lopiano, the president and founder of Sports Management Resources, the former CEO of the Women's Sports Foundation, and a National Sports Hall of Fame 4- sport athlete.

The second epidemic impacted our communities last summer, after the murder of George Floyd and the period of social justice and racial reconciliation that followed. Join us as we will discuss the history and evolution of workplace discrimination and DE&I efforts employed by corporations, a year after the Me Too movement and Black Lives Matter protests with our guests Grace Speights and Chai Feldblum on Today's Workplace. Learn what changes have taken place over one year.

As Texas prepares for a wide open (and mask-free) Spring Break and St. Patty’s Day, Tom and Jay look at this week’s stories top compliance and ethics stories which caught their interest on This Week in FCPA.  Stories Increase in SEC penalties coming? Matt Kelly in Radical Compliance. Why don’t more employees speak up? Vera Cherepanova in the FCPA Blog. What happens when you have a regulartory sand box? Neil Hodge in Compliance Week. (sub req’d)   First DFS cyber breach resolution. Debevoise lawyers in NYU Compliance and Enforcement Blog. The continuing wreckage of the Solar Winds hack. Mike Volkov in Crime Corruption and Compliance. What is the state of your DEI program. Chai Feldblum and Emily Cuneo DeSmedt in Navex Global’s Risk and Compliance Matters Blog. Are you too old to be in compliance? Dick Cassin the FCPA Blog. DOJ ramps up FCPA enforcement fire power. Dylan Tokar in the WSJ Risk and Complaince Journal. Podcasts and Events On The Compliance Life, Rob Chesnut joins me for the month of March. In the first episode, In Episode 1, Rob talks about his academic career at UVA and how its Honor Code influenced his thinking about ethics in his professional career and his his career as an AUSA. In Episode 2, Rob moves cross country to join eBay. Microsoft joins the Compliance Podcast Network, with two podcasts, Voice of Data Protection and Uncovering Hidden Risks. In Episode 2 of Voices of Data Protection, Bhavanesh Rengarajan discusses information protection strategies. In Episode 2 of Uncovering Hidden Risks, Raman Kalyan Talhah Mir consider how to determine your next insider risk. Cordery Compliance joins the Compliance Podcast Network with its Cordery Head to Head podcast. In this episode, Jonathan Armstrong visits with Prof. Eric Sinrod as they look ahead at what 2021 might mean for the world of technology. Check it out here. Episode 4 of Integrity Through Compliance.This podcast will focus on the role of an independent monitor. You will hear from two of my AMI colleagues who are experts in corporate compliance and ethics, Senior Vice President, Eric Feldman and Managing Director, Mikhail Reider-Gordon who provide practical advice about the benefits of having an independent monitor. Check it out here. Join K2 Integrity's financial crimes risk and compliance experts on March 18 as they discuss the impact of ongoing developments in the financial integrity community. Topics will include: Regulatory trends and predictions for 2021 and beyond, Changes in the AML/CFT and ABC landscape, and Implications of evolving OFAC sanctions programs. Information and registration here. Tom announces his latest book, The Compliance Handbook, 2nd edition is available for presale purchase. Use the code FOX25 and go here. The Compliance Handbook 2ndedition will be available in both print and eBook editions. This week on The Compliance Handbook podcast, the ladies from #GWIC join Tom for a deep dive into written standards. Tom Fox is the Voice of Compliance and can be reached at tfox@tfoxlaw.com. Jay Rosen is Mr. Monitor and can be reached at jrosen@affiliatedmonitors.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The second epidemic impacted our communities last summer, after the murder of George Floyd and the period of social justice and racial reconciliation that followed. Join us as we will discuss the history and evolution of workplace discrimination and DE&I efforts employed by corporations, a year after the Me Too movement and Black Lives Matter protests with our guests Grace Speights and Chai Feldblum on Today's Workplace. Learn what changes have taken place over one year.

Michelle Bercovici, Esq. of the D.C. Bar Labor and Employment Law Community and Chai R. Feldblum, Esq., former commissioner of the EEOC, discuss the Supreme Court's decision in Bostock v. Clayton County, Georgia, No. 17-1618 (S. Ct. June 15, 2020). Michelle and Chai discuss this decision, holding that firing individuals because of their sexual orientation or transgender status violates Title VII's prohibition on discrimination because of sex, and the future of Title VII claims of discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation and transgender status. Read Chai's Thank You post on Medium HERE. This episode is sponsored by GNGF. To claim your free digital copy of their bestselling book, Online Practice Strategies: How to Turn Clicks into Clients, visit 4.gngf.com/brief. Please note, the positions and opinions expressed by the speakers are strictly their own, and do not necessarily represent the views of their employers, nor those of the D.C. Bar, its Board of Governors or co-sponsoring Communities and organizations.

Tuesday, January 8, 2019 Today we hear from the President of American Family Association (AFA) and American Family Radio (AFR), Tim Wildmon. He will give us an update on the Chai Feldblum nomination. Host Kerby Anderson will also talk with Ryan Reeves. Ryan has a new book, “Know How We Got Our Bible.” We would love […]

Matt Steinberg welcomes EEOC Commissioner Chai Feldblum for the second half of their wide-ranging conversation where Matt and Commissioner Feldblum discuss federal protection of employment-related LGBT rights, how the DOJ's recent pronouncements on these issues will impact EEOC present enforcement/litigation (hint: it won't), the EEOC's increased focus on age discrimination, the legal and business reasons for why employers should avoid ageist stereotypes, and a final "speed round" on timely issues including EEO pay data reports, and gender pay equity. http://www.akerman.com/podcasts/disclaimer/workedup.html

Amidst seemingly endless sexual harassment headlines, Matt Steinberg welcomes EEOC Commissioner, Chai Feldblum, to discuss the "Superstar Harasser" epidemic. The discussion will explore what companies can do to prevent and address harassment in the workplace, innovative ideas and best practices for authentic employment training, building a corporate culture of "shared responsibility," and the debate surrounding the use of nondisclosure provisions in settlement agreements. http://www.akerman.com/podcasts/disclaimer/workedup.html

A person's disability can range from the difficult to detect — like Attention Deficit Disorder — to the more apparent, like loss of a limb or blindness. Now employers have a go-to guide to answer all their questions on hiring and equipping those with disabilities. A product of the "Curb Cuts to the Middle Class Initiative," the plain-language guide brings together a host of resources from across the government. Sharon Masling is Chief of Staff to Equal Employment Opportunity Commissioner Chai Feldblum, who has been a leader in the Curb Cuts Initiative. She joined Tom Temin on the Federal Drive to explain more of what's in the new guide.

Joyce's honored guest is Chai Feldblum, commissioner of the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) since September 15, 2010. Ms. Feldblum will discuss the mission of the EEOC, the progress of federal hiring successes of people with disabilities and other initiatives such as Section 503 of the Rehabilitation Act, requiring federal contractors to take affirmative action to include people with disabilities within their workforce.

Joyce welcomes Chai Feldblum, commissioner of the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC). Ms. Feldblum will discuss the mission of the EEOC, federal hiring successes of people with disabilities and other initiatives such as Section 503 of the Rehabilitation Act, requiring federal contractors to take affirmative action to include people with disabilities within their workforce.

Joyce's honored guest is Chai Feldblum, Commissioner of the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC). The EEOC released its final regulations to implement the ADA Amendments Act (ADAAA) on March 24, 2011. The regulations are designed to simplify the definition of “disability” and make it easier for people with disabilities to establish that they are protected under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA). Commissioner Feldman will discuss the work the Commission did over the past months to ensure that the regulations carry out the intent of the landmark ADA law.

Joyce's honored guest is Chai Feldblum, Commissioner of the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC). The EEOC released its final regulations to implement the ADA Amendments Act (ADAAA) on March 24, 2011. The regulations are designed to simplify the definition of “disability” and make it easier for people with disabilities to establish that they are protected under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA). Commissioner Feldman will discuss the work the Commission did over the past months to ensure that the regulations carry out the intent of the landmark ADA law.