Podcast appearances and mentions of nick afka thomas

The story of the spy and the murderer isn't over. There is something missing in the story: the answer to the question of *why*. Why did Herbert Cukurs go from being a national hero to a mass murderer? Stephan Talty speaks to some striking characters to try and finally answer that question. It turns out to have more sides than we originally thought. The opinion of most people was that Cukurs had always been a secret anti-Semite. Before the war, he'd hidden this hatred inside himself. But really he hated Jews. And when the war came, the Nazis gave him a chance to use that hatred. And he did terrible things. End of story.  But that just didn't fit the facts. So Talty kept looking. And in that search, he found Zelma Shepshelovich. Zelma was a bright, beautiful Jewish girl. During the war, on the day her family had been murdered, Zelma had been hidden by a Latvian guy who was hopelessly in love with her. And she stayed in hiding and learned things that take us to the heart of Cukurs' life. Her story also involves psychiatric asylums, an escape to Sweden, suicide attempts and much more. But Zelma's story is mostly about suffering and love and never forgetting. Zelma is the key to knowing the question of *why*. Or at least one side of it. Good Assassins: Hunting the Butcher came out of author Stephan Talty's work on a book called The Good Assassin: Buy the book This episode contains interviews with: • Zelma Shepshelovich, courtesy of The Institute for Visual History and Education at the USC Shoah Foundation • Naomi Ahimeir, daughter of Zelma Shepshelovich • Ilya Lensky, Director of the Jews in Latvia Museum in Riga, Latvia • Dr. Sarah Valente, visiting assisstant professor at The Ackerman Center at The University of Texas at Dallas • Written and Hosted by STEPHAN TALTY • Produced and Directed by SCOTT WAXMAN and JACOB BRONSTEIN • Executive Producers: SCOTT WAXMAN and MARK FRANCIS • Story Editor: JACOB BRONSTEIN • Editorial direction: SCOTT WAXMAN and MANGESH HATTIKUDUR • Editing, mixing, and sound design: MARK FRANCIS • With the voices of: NICK AFKA THOMAS, OMRI ANGHEL, ANDREW POLK, MINDY ESCOBAR-LEANSE, STEVE ROUTMAN, STEFAN RUDNICKI • Theme Music by TYLER CASH • Archival Researcher: ADAM SHAPIRO • Thanks to OREN ROSENBAUM Learn more about “Good Assassins: Hunting the Butcher” at DiversionPodcasts.com Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

Judgment Day had arrived: February 23, 1965. Herbert Cukurs carried his gun in a leather holster as he boarded the plane to Uruguay and headed off into what he must have imagined was his new life. The men of the Mossad kill team were spread out in various hotels across Montevideo. They woke up early on that February morning and began to get ready for the Butcher's arrival.  The spy later wrote, “We planned a very brief court-martial in which we intended to read the charges to [Cukurs], in the name of the 30,000 Jews from Riga and Latvia – children, women, the elderly, and men – who had been murdered by him... We wanted him to know that this entire long affair with Anton Kuenzle had been designed only to set the stage for the moment of revenge in the name of his innocent victims. And then we were going to put a bullet in his head.” Germany's planned amnesty for Nazis was getting more and more international attention. In the US, the NAACP had added its name to Simon Wiesenthal's letter. Pressure was building, both for the amnesty and against it. The full debate in the German parliament was scheduled for March 10th, two and a half weeks away. The Mossad team was cutting things close. Maybe they thought the fresher Cukurs' crimes were in the minds of German legislators, the better it was for their cause. Maybe it just took this long to get the Butcher into position. But they knew they didn't have a lot of time to mount another mission if things went wrong. By now, thousands of people around the world had marched against Germany's amnesty. In Atlanta, Boston, Chicago, New Orleans, Washington, Tel Aviv, and Paris, there were protests. A journalist interviewed one of the marchers in Toronto. She told him, “I am the only survivor of Bergen-Belsen of my entire family. I am so lonely without my relatives.” At the Casa, the kill team undressed down to their underwear. If the reports had been correct, the encounter would be bloody, and they didn't want the evidence of a struggle on their clothes. They waited in the hot, humid room, listening to the workers' banter next door and the noise of their tools. They checked their watches.  This episode contains interviews with Fernando Butazzoni, award-winning journalist and author of the 2020 book on Mossad's Cukurs mission, Los Que Nunca Olvidarán (Those Who Will Never Forget) “Good Assassins: Hunting the Butcher" came out of Stephan Talty's work on a related book, The Good Assassin. Explore other parts of this story in the book: Buy The Good Assassin • Written and Hosted by STEPHAN TALTY • Produced and Directed by SCOTT WAXMAN and JACOB BRONSTEIN • Executive Producers: SCOTT WAXMAN and MARK FRANCIS • Story Editor: JACOB BRONSTEIN • Editorial direction: SCOTT WAXMAN and MANGESH HATTIKUDUR • Editing, mixing, and sound design: MARK FRANCIS • With the voices of: NICK AFKA THOMAS, OMRI ANGHEL, ANDREW POLK, MINDY ESCOBAR-LEANSE, STEVE ROUTMAN, STEFAN RUDNICKI • Theme Music by TYLER CASH • Archival Researcher: ADAM SHAPIRO • Thanks to OREN ROSENBAUM Learn more about “Good Assassins: Hunting the Butcher” at DiversionPodcasts.com  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

A conversation with the hilarious British-American comedy duo Nick Afka Thomas and Sarah Ann Masse, who have together formed We are Thomasse, and tell the story of the  "Awkward Exes"  Britain and America as a messy divorce emerging "special relationship."  They have followed this with more episodes and stories, "Real Founding Fathers of America," a series which they plan to tell the story of the difficult years between Yorktown and Ratification as a reality show.   You can view these videos ahead of time at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UavxguiQrFQ.

The spy was happy to be back home, but his mission wasn't complete. The final act was still to take place in Uruguay. So in the Mossad apartment in the heart of Paris, the kill team started to plan the assassination. They were going ahead with the plan. The debate in the German Parliament was coming up in a few months. They all hoped a successful mission would influence it.  “Good Assassins: Hunting the Butcher" came out of Stephan Talty's work on a related book, The Good Assassin. Explore other parts of this story in the book: Buy The Good Assassin There was a lot of work to do. The Mossad boss Yosef Yariv had collected all the documents the spy had sent from the field, including maps of Montevideo and São Paolo, information on hotels and renting cars. He'd written down what they'd to get through passport control and what problems the other team members might face. But they still didn't have a place where the assassination could be carried out. They didn't even know how it was going to be carried out.  Mossad wanted everyone to suspect that Israel had carried out the killing but it didn't want any of its agents to get caught. What they were doing wasn't legal. Cukurs wasn't going to get a trial or have a lawyer, like Adolf Eichmann had got after Mossad kidnapped him. They didn't want Mossad to be the story. They wanted Cukurs to be the story.  So the team members had to carry out the killing, gather their belongings, and head to the airport. They had to get on the plane and get safely back to Europe before Cukurs' body was discovered. That influenced how the assassination would be carried out. It couldn't be public. It couldn't be loud. And the body had to be left out of sight, so that someone didn't stumble on it and raise the alarm before the agents had left the country. The team members were almost done with their training in Krav Maga, the Israeli fighting system. Imi Lichtenfeld was working them hard. They were losing precious time. The clock was ticking and Germany's vote on the amnesty statute was approaching fast. If the mission didn't move forward soon, all would be lost. This episode contains interviews with: • Eyal Yanilov, co-founder and Chief Instructor of Krav Maga Global • Fernando Butazzoni, award-winning journalist and author of the 2020 book on Mossad's Cukurs mission, Los Que Nunca Olvidarán (Those Who Will Never Forget) • Avner Avraham, former Mossad agent and renowned expert on Mossad operations • Gad Shimron, former Mossad agent, journalist, author of several books on intelligence and history • Chris Costa, veteran of the Department of Defense. US Army counterintelligence, human intelligence, and Special Operations Forces, currently Executive Director of the International Spy Museum GOOD ASSASSINS: HUNTING THE BUTCHER • Written and Hosted by STEPHAN TALTY • Produced and Directed by SCOTT WAXMAN and JACOB BRONSTEIN • Executive Producers: SCOTT WAXMAN and MARK FRANCIS • Story Editor: JACOB BRONSTEIN • Editorial direction: SCOTT WAXMAN and MANGESH HATTIKUDUR • Editing, mixing, and sound design: MARK FRANCIS • With the voices of: NICK AFKA THOMAS, OMRI ANGHEL, ANDREW POLK, MINDY ESCOBAR-LEANSE, STEVE ROUTMAN, STEFAN RUDNICKI • Theme Music by TYLER CASH • Archival Researcher: ADAM SHAPIRO • Thanks to OREN ROSENBAUM Learn more about “Good Assassins: Hunting the Butcher” at DiversionPodcasts.com Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

By the winter of 1964, the mission was coming into focus. In Brazil, the spy continued to meet with Herbert Cukurs, stoking The Butcher's excitement for his coming wealth and making sure he'd be willing to travel outside of Brazil. Yosef Yariv had chosen his kill team and they were training under the Krav Maga master, Imi Lichtenfeld. “Good Assassins: Hunting the Butcher" came out of Stephan Talty's work on a related book, The Good Assassin. Explore other parts of this story in the book: Buy The Good Assassin Herbert Cukurs was getting excited. He needed money, but more importantly, after being a pariah for years, he needed the encouragement that this high roller "Anton Kuenzle" gave him. Mio had sensed almost from the minute he met Cukurs that the guy was a narcissist. What the spy didn't know was that Cukurs was also playing a part. He pretended he was gung-ho, but the truth is he was deeply worried by the idea of leaving the country. Decades on the run had made him a worrier. He knew the Jews wanted him. Who's to say this wasn't the nightmare he'd been running away from ever since he left Latvia? Cukurs thought about it. What Anton Kuenzle offered was so tempting. It was maybe his last chance at getting rich and getting his reputation back. It was too good to pass up. He was leaning towards going. But he wasn't sure. The spy flew to Uruguay and its capital, Montevideo. He wanted to see if it could work for the final act of the mission. He rented a car, studied the map, and started searching for a house. He needed something that looked like it could serve as the home base for a respectable company. It had to fool the Butcher.  Cukurs arrived in Montevideo a few days later. He was super excited. He probably hadn't left Brazil in twenty years and now he was on a vacation with all expenses paid. This was the important thing. Mio was starting to condition Cukurs, getting him to go in and out of strange houses. This episode contains interviews with: • Dr. Sarah Valente: visiting assisstant professor at The Ackerman Center at The University of Texas at Dallas. Dr. Valente studies the legacy of World War II and the Holocaust in Brazil. • Fernando Butazzoni: award-winning journalist and author of the 2020 book on Mossad's Cukurs mission, Los Que Nunca Olvidarán (Those Who Will Never Forget) • Avner Avraham: former Mossad agent and renowned expert on Mossad operations • Gad Shimron: former Mossad agent, journalist, author of several books on intelligence and history GOOD ASSASSINS: HUNTING THE BUTCHER • Written and Hosted by STEPHAN TALTY • Produced and Directed by SCOTT WAXMAN and JACOB BRONSTEIN • Executive Producers: SCOTT WAXMAN and MARK FRANCIS • Story Editor: JACOB BRONSTEIN • Editorial direction: SCOTT WAXMAN and MANGESH HATTIKUDUR • Editing, mixing, and sound design: MARK FRANCIS • With the voices of: NICK AFKA THOMAS, OMRI ANGHEL, ANDREW POLK, MINDY ESCOBAR-LEANSE, STEVE ROUTMAN, STEFAN RUDNICKI • Theme Music by TYLER CASH • Archival Researcher: ADAM SHAPIRO • Thanks to OREN ROSENBAUM Learn more about “Good Assassins: Hunting the Butcher” at DiversionPodcasts.com Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

The spy had gotten a step closer to the Butcher. Comparing Israel's mission to assassinate Herbert Cukurs to the US mission to assassinate Osama Bin Laden, the latter was revenge. But when Israel and Mossad decided to kill The Butcher of Latvia, it was to prevent more killing of Jews. Things were starting to heat up with the Statute of Limitations, which was the whole reason for the mission: to stop Germany from giving Nazi killers a free pass for their atrocities. Importantly, a famous Nazi hunter joined the cause: Simon Wiesenthal. Wiesenthal was a master publicist and self-promoter and was obsessed with finding the men and women responsible for the Holocaust and bringing Nazis to justice. “Good Assassins: Hunting the Butcher" came out of Stephan Talty's work on a related book, The Good Assassin. Explore other parts of this story in the book: Buy The Good Assassin There was also the question of the assassination method. Mossad had many ways to take someone out, what they called “targeted killings.” Yosef Yariv's job was to recruit the rest of the team that would fly to South America to join Mio and carry out the sentence on the Butcher. The team would need to train in how to bring down a strong, desperate man who has just realized he's fighting for his life.  Yariv found a guy. His name was Imi Lichtenfeld. Lichtenfeld had created a street-­fighting technique called Krav Maga (“close combat” in Hebrew), which allowed practitioners to inflict the most damage in the shortest possible time. In 1948, the Israel Defense Forces had adopted Krav Maga for training its recruits and named Imi Lichtenfeld Chief Instructor for Physical Fitness. In 1964, Lichtenfeld began to lead secret training sessions with the kill team.  This episode contains interviews with H. Keith Melton, intelligence historian and expert on espionage tradecraft and Eyal Yanilov, co-founder and Chief Instructor of Krav Maga Global. Written and Hosted by STEPHAN TALTY Produced and Directed by SCOTT WAXMAN and JACOB BRONSTEIN Executive Producers: SCOTT WAXMAN and MARK FRANCIS Story Editor: JACOB BRONSTEIN Editorial direction: SCOTT WAXMAN and MANGESH HATTIKUDUR Editing, mixing, and sound design: MARK FRANCIS With the voices of: NICK AFKA THOMAS, OMRI ANGHEL, ANDREW POLK, MINDY ESCOBAR-LEANSE, STEVE ROUTMAN, STEFAN RUDNICKI Theme Music by TYLER CASH Archival Researcher: ADAM SHAPIRO Thanks to OREN ROSENBAUM Learn more about “Good Assassins: Hunting the Butcher” at DiversionPodcasts.com Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

Herbert Cukurs invited "Anton Kuenzle" to visit him at his home, not knowing, of course, "Kuenzle" is the spy Mio, undercover. So the spy prepares for the meeting. He doesn't know what Cukurs wants, which was the real question. Most spies use a handful of motives to get people to do what they want: money, sex, patriotism. But Cukurs was an odd fish. He seemed to want to be a hero again, to be beloved. The spy couldn't offer him that - so what could he dangle in front of the Butcher? “Good Assassins: Hunting the Butcher" came out of Stephan Talty's work on a related book, The Good Assassin. Explore other parts of this story in the book: Buy The Good Assassin The spy decides on his approach. He will dangle a chance at redemption in front of the Butcher: a last shot at riches and fame. That was the bait. Cukurs suggests the two of them take a trip inland — he owned two plantations there. The long trip gives Cukurs a chance to see if they're being tailed. If the spy had people following him, they would be exposed on the deserted roads. The Butcher was hunting the spy as much as the spy was hunting him. “Good Assassins: Hunting the Butcher” is written and hosted by Stephan Talty. Produced and directed by Scott Waxman and Jacob Bronstein. Executive Producers: Scott Waxman and Mark Francis. Story editing by Jacob Bronstein with editorial direction from Scott Waxman and Mangesh Hattikudur. Editing, mixing, and sound design by Mark Francis. With the voices of: Nick Afka Thomas, Omri Anghel, Andrew Polk, Mindy Escobar-Leanse, Steve Routman, and Stefan Rudnicki. Theme music by Tyler Cash. Archival research by Adam Shapiro. Thanks to Oren Rosenbaum at UTA. Special thanks to Kevin Anderson and the Anderson family for permission to use the Jack Anderson recording, Leah Richardson and the Special Collections Research Center at George Washington University Library, and Ron Saah.  Learn more about Good Assassins: Hunting the Butcher  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

The spy surveils his target and finally meets Herbert Cukurs — The Butcher of Latvia — in person. Mio had known people like the Butcher earlier in his life. He'd grown up in Germany during the rise of Hitler. Now he was getting to know a Nazi again, being friendly, even drinking with him. Mio kept his parents in his mind constantly. He actually dreamt about them during the mission — bad dreams. So for Mio it was something he could not forget and he could not forgive. Mio said when he was given the mission in September 1964 to assassinate Herbert Cukurs, it was like reopening a book; the unfinished story of his parents and their fate during the war. He felt there was a final chapter to be written. “Good Assassins: Hunting the Butcher" came out of Stephan Talty's work on a related book, The Good Assassin. Explore other parts of this story in the book: Buy The Good Assassin As Mio was making contact with Cukurs in Brazil, on the other side of the Atlantic a man named Tuviah Friedman was headed to the German capital for a meeting with the Justice Minister. He had a presentation to give, and if he succeeded with it, it would make Mio's mission pointless. Tuviah Friedman was a Nazi hunter. In fact, Friedman was considered one of the two leading Nazi-hunters in the world, second only to the more famous activist Simon Wiesenthal.  Friedman had grown up in Poland. He and his family had watched the Nazis arrive. The Germans soon put them in a ghetto. Friedman saw Jews being murdered around him; his father starved himself to death so that his children would have more to eat. Friedman's younger brother, Herschel, and his sister Itka were taken away to concentration camps, and Friedman himself was transported to a sub-camp of Auschwitz.  Tuviah Friedman survived the Holocaust by the sheer ferocity of his will. But his family didn't survive. In the chaos of the post-war period, Friedman hunted down German killers. His specialty was Gestapo officers and SS men; if he saw one of their black uniforms, he would be filled with a rage that sometimes drove him to extremes. He would beat them and sometimes kill them. He was a Jewish avenger, the real thing. Other Nazi hunters never physically put their hands on their enemies. Friedman did. At the same time, there was another Nazi-hunting mission going on. Mossad had sent another agent to Damascus, Syria. His name was Eli Cohen. Cohen's main mission was to find out what Syria was up to: war with Israel? building up their forces? But dozens of Nazis had fled to Syria after World War II and Eli Cohen was also hoping to eliminate them. This episode contains interviews with Colonel Chris Costa, former U.S. Army Intelligence officer, Senior Director for Counterterrorism at the National Security Council and currently the Executive Director of the International Spy Museum. “Good Assassins: Hunting the Butcher” is written and hosted by Stephan Talty. Produced and directed by Scott Waxman and Jacob Bronstein. Executive Producers: Scott Waxman and Mark Francis. Story editing by Jacob Bronstein with editorial direction from Scott Waxman and Mangesh Hattikudur. Editing, mixing, and sound design by Mark Francis. With the voices of: Nick Afka Thomas, Omri Anghel, Andrew Polk, Mindy Escobar-Leanse, Steve Routman, and Stefan Rudnicki. Theme music by Tyler Cash. Archival research by Adam Shapiro. Special thanks to Oren Rosenbaum at UTA. Learn more about “Good Assassins: Hunting the Butcher” at DiversionPodcasts.com Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

The spy transforms into his cover identity. He will travel to Brazil, where his assassination target is living, and attempt to lure him into a trap. If his cover fails, Herbert Cukurs — The Butcher of Latvia — may kill him. But before Cukurs could be placed on a kill list, and before Mossad could begin to track him down, Cukurs' pursuers had to be sure he was the right guy. Was this really the Butcher of Latvia?  “Good Assassins: Hunting the Butcher" came out of Stephan Talty's work on a related book, The Good Assassin. Explore other parts of this story in the book: Buy The Good Assassin An organization called the World Jewish Congress announced that the Butcher of Latvia had been found and was living in Brazil. And, despite the growing international indifference toward the hunt for Nazis, it had an effect. There were headlines in Brazilian newspapers. Cukurs' business was ruined. He had to move several times to avoid angry protestors.  Eventually Cukurs moves to São Paolo, running another small boat rental business. This was not what Cukurs had imagined for himself. His dreams of building a glorious new life in Brazil had been shattered. The Jews had seen to that. He was bitter, paranoid and lonely. Cukurs hoped for a grand third act to his life. He believed in himself. He just had to convince the world that he'd been misunderstood in order to get his fame and the money back.  The Israeli government kept a list of important Nazi criminals who'd escaped justice. We don't know how many people were on it, but we do know a few of the more famous names: Adolf Eichmann, one of the main architects of the Holocaust. Mossad captured him in 1960, put him on trial, and executed him. Dr. Josef Mengele, known as “The Angel of Death,” who'd murdered Jewish children at Auschwitz and had conducted ghastly experiments on Jewish prisoners, was high on the list. Herbert Cukurs had made the list too.  In the early 1960s, the Israelis became concerned about a possible amnesty for Nazis. The German government was considering giving a free pass to Nazi murderers who hadn't been indicted yet. The Israelis wanted to stop this from happening and they had decided to go after a Nazi. A few months later, our Mossad agent, Mio, was getting ready to assume the role of a lifetime. He had his target. Now he had to prepare to meet him. He faced a confident, tough-minded man. One who wouldn't go quietly. Mio had to plan the mission without explicit directions from headquarters. For that, Mio had to get inside the Butcher's head, find out what he wanted, discover his weak points. Mio booked a flight to Brazil for September 11th, 1964. He was ready to meet the Butcher. This episode contains interviews with Dr. Sarah Valente, visiting assisstant professor at The Ackerman Center at The University of Texas at Dallas. Dr. Valente studies the legacy of World War II and the Holocaust in Brazil. This episode contains excerpts from tapes contained in the papers of Jack Anderson, the legendary investigative reporter. Anderson's papers reside at George Washington University's GW Libraries. “Good Assassins: Hunting the Butcher” is written and hosted by Stephan Talty. Produced and directed by Scott Waxman and Jacob Bronstein. Executive Producers: Scott Waxman and Mark Francis. Story editing by Jacob Bronstein with editorial direction from Scott Waxman and Mangesh Hattikudur. Editing, mixing, and sound design by Mark Francis. With the voices of: Nick Afka Thomas, Omri Anghel, Andrew Polk, Mindy Escobar-Leanse, Steve Routman, and Stefan Rudnicki. Theme music by Tyler Cash. Archival research by Adam Shapiro. Thanks to Kevin Anderson & the Anderson family for permission to use the Jack Anderson recordings, Leah Richardson and the Special Collections Research Center at George Washington University Library, and Ron Saah. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

Who was the Butcher of Latvia? Before World War II Herbert Cukurs was a a national hero. He put Latvia on the map. If you're looking for an American equivalent, think Amelia Earhart or Charles Lindbergh. Cukurs was a big deal. But after the Nazis occupied Latvia, Cukurs became a monster, participating in the murder of 30,000 men, women, and even children. How did this decorated and ingenious aviator betray friends and neighbors and became a savage criminal with the blood of thousands on his hands? “Good Assassins: Hunting the Butcher" came out of Stephan Talty's work on a related book, The Good Assassin. Explore other parts of this story in the book: Buy The Good Assassin In July 1941, the Germans invaded Latvia. The Nazis fought their way into the capital, Riga, and soon sent the Soviet soldiers, who had occupied Lativa for the previous year, running to the east. Another kind of horror emerged, one now directed at Jews.  The Nazis began passing anti-Semitic laws. They encouraged Latvians to direct their hatred at their Jewish neighbors. They declared that Jews had helped the Soviets to occupy Latvia and carry out atrocities. They said Jews had betrayed their country, and they needed to pay for it. It was a lie of course, but it worked. Round-ups began almost immediately. What added to the terror was that it was often their fellow Latvians who took the lead in the violence But why did the Butcher kill some of his neighbors and spare others? Maybe he did it for the money? But there's no record of him asking for any. Maybe he only saved young women? No, he actually spared at least one Jewish man, a doctor he'd known before the war. So what was it? The testimonies of witnesses answer one question clearly: Cukurs was guilty. So why did he still have defenders? I found half a dozen eyewitnesses to his actions, and later I came across statements from fellow Latvians in his commando unit. They confirmed he'd been part of the massacres. So why did he transform from hero to mass murderer? I went through other possibilities. Maybe he'd always been an anti-Semite and just hid it until the Nazis came. Maybe the Germans had forced him to kill. That was the explanation of many non-Germans who murdered Jews during the war. Maybe that was part of the answer. But then, I'd read a testimony talking about how the Butcher seemed to enjoy killing. There was more than one testiony. It just didn't fit the idea that he was forced to do anything.  So I had no answers. Even the survivors in their testimonies couldn't give a reason. Most of them were as baffled as I was. Maybe there were others who fit this pattern. Friendly towards Jews before the war and then joined in the massacres, but saved the occasional victim. Maybe there were historians who'd found killers like this, and that would help give some insight into Cukurs. I started making some calls. It was a start, a way to try to get inside Herbert Cukurs' mind. • Written and Hosted by STEPHAN TALTY • Produced and Directed by SCOTT WAXMAN and JACOB BRONSTEIN • Executive Producers: SCOTT WAXMAN and MARK FRANCIS • Story Editor: JACOB BRONSTEIN • Editorial direction: SCOTT WAXMAN and MANGESH HATTIKUDUR • Editing, mixing, and sound design: MARK FRANCIS • With the voices of: NICK AFKA THOMAS, OMRI ANGHEL, ANDREW POLK, MINDY ESCOBAR-LEANSE, STEVE ROUTMAN, STEFAN RUDNICKI • Theme Music by TYLER CASH • Archival Researcher: ADAM SHAPIRO • Thanks to OREN ROSENBAUM Learn more at DiversionPodcasts.com  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

A spy named Mio is called to a secret meeting in Paris. The Israeli government — and its spy agency, Mossad — has decided that Herbert Cukurs, "The Butcher of Latvia", one of the most savage and prolific Nazi killers, must be tracked down and assassinated in South America, where's he's now living. Mio must assume a secret identity, fly to Brazil, hunt down The Butcher and gain his trust, maybe even befriend him. The German government is considering an amnesty law for all the murderers of the Holocaust and Mio must complete his mission and send a message to the world before it's too late. This is a story about a spy and a murderer. In the history of espionage, this case of the undercover agent and the man known as The Butcher of Latvia is unique. It has many of the things that can fascinate us about spies: the tradecraft, letters in invisible ink, intrigue in places around the world - in this case, Paris, Tel Aviv, Berlin, Montevideo, Uruguay, and Rio de Janeiro. There are recon missions, disguises, fake passports, shooting contests, a kill team trained in a special martial arts called Krav Maga. There's a body in a trunk. And a drug called Librium that one agent takes so he doesn't sweat and appear nervous. There's a psychiatrist who tries to psychoanalyze Nazis. Hitler even makes an appearance. When we think of assassinations, we tend to think of some awful moments in history. We think about Lee Harvey Oswald and Dealey Plaza in Dallas. Sirhan Sirhan and Robert Kennedy lying in a pool of blood. We think about James Earl Ray and Martin Luther King, Jr. on the balcony of the Lorraine Motel in Memphis. And the start of World War One, when an assassin killed the Archduke Franz Ferdinand.  But this is something different. This is the story of a spy tries to kill someone for a good reason: to prevent crimes against humanity and to close a chapter on something that happened in the spy's own life. This mission was personal, at least to the agent who was the lead operative. His name was Mio.  This is unique. Spy missions are never personal. They're supposed to be clinical, unemotional. This operation was like that for some of its architects, but it wasn't like that at all for Mio.  It also had a target who, at first read, seems completely evil. A Nazi killer. His name was Herbert Cukurs and he'd betrayed people who'd once been his friends and neighbors. He'd led them to their deaths — at gunpoint — and sometimes killed them, point blank. He had on his hands the blood of literally thousands of innocent victims. Some of these people had really admired Herbert Cukurs and even thought of him as a hero. Which, oddly enough, he'd once been. All of this is wrapped up in World War II and the Holocaust and genocide law. The effects of the mission are still with us today. It's had this secret effect on our lives that nobody really knows about. “Good Assassins: Hunting the Butcher" came out of Stephan Talty's work on a related book, The Good Assassin. Explore other parts of this story in the book: Buy The Good Assassin • Written and Hosted by STEPHAN TALTY • Produced and Directed by SCOTT WAXMAN and JACOB BRONSTEIN • Executive Producers: SCOTT WAXMAN and MARK FRANCIS • Story Editor: JACOB BRONSTEIN • Editorial direction: SCOTT WAXMAN and MANGESH HATTIKUDUR • Editing, mixing, and sound design: MARK FRANCIS • With the voices of: NICK AFKA THOMAS, OMRI ANGHEL, ANDREW POLK, MINDY ESCOBAR-LEANSE, STEVE ROUTMAN, STEFAN RUDNICKI • Theme Music by TYLER CASH • Archival Researcher: ADAM SHAPIRO • Thanks to OREN ROSENBAUM Learn more at DiversionPodcasts.com Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

This week’s Yes But Why episode is a superfun chat with British-American comedy couple, We Are Thomasse.We Are Thomasse is a Los Angeles based sketch group made up of married couple Nick Afka Thomas (who is British) and Sarah Ann Masse (who is American). They perform live shows regularly in Los Angeles and around the world. Their show consists of fast-paced, character-driven sketches, often with a twist of their own perspective as a British-American couple. We Are Thomasse has also had viral success making comedy videos. So much so that Facebook approached them to be a part of a pilot program for independent creators. They accepted their offer and saw a significant increase in their fanbase!In this episode, Amy talks to We Are Thomasse as they are hiding in a closet in Disneyland. It’s how all the coolest comedians are doing podcasts these days (no big deal). Sarah and Nick talk about having confidence as a performer, writing satire for activism, and dealing with anger. We also talk about We Are Thomasse’s dedication to having a positive impact on the world and the work they have done to that end. Listen in for the story of the craziest show they ever did… in a living room… in The Netherlands!Support We Are Thomasse by watching all of their videos on Youtube! And if you ever have a chance to go see them, you should experience the hilarity of We Are Thomasse in person!Yes But Why Podcast is a proud member of the HC Universal Network family of podcasts. Download the FREE HC Universal Network app for Android and iDevices or visit us at HCUniversalNetwork.com and join the fun.This episode of Yes But Why podcast is sponsored by audible - get your FREE audiobook download and your 30 day free trial at http://www.audibletrial.com/YESBUTWHY.

This week’s Yes But Why episode is a superfun chat with British-American comedy couple, We Are Thomasse. We Are Thomasse is a Los Angeles based sketch group made up of married couple Nick Afka Thomas (who is British) and Sarah Ann Masse (who is American). They perform live shows regularly in Los Angeles and around the world. Their show consists of fast-paced, character-driven sketches, often with a twist of their own perspective as a British-American couple. We Are Thomasse has also had viral success making comedy videos. So much so that Facebook approached them to be a part of a pilot program for independent creators. They accepted their offer and saw a significant increase in their fanbase! In this episode, Amy talks to We Are Thomasse as they are hiding in a closet in Disneyland. It’s how all the coolest comedians are doing podcasts these days (no big deal). Sarah and Nick talk about having confidence as a performer, writing satire for activism, and dealing with anger. We also talk about We Are Thomasse’s dedication to having a positive impact on the world and the work they have done to that end. Listen in for the story of the craziest show they ever did… in a living room… in The Netherlands! Support We Are Thomasse by watching all of their videos on Youtube! And if you ever have a chance to go see them, you should experience the hilarity of We Are Thomasse in person! Yes But Why Podcast is a proud member of the HC Universal Network family of podcasts. Download the FREE HC Universal Network app for Android and iDevices or visit us at HCUniversalNetwork.com and join the fun. This episode of Yes But Why podcast is sponsored by audible - get your FREE audiobook download and your 30 day free trial at http://www.audibletrial.com/YESBUTWHY.

This week’s Yes But Why episode is a superfun chat with British-American comedy couple, We Are Thomasse.We Are Thomasse is a Los Angeles based sketch group made up of married couple Nick Afka Thomas (who is British) and Sarah Ann Masse (who is American). They perform live shows regularly in Los Angeles and around the world. Their show consists of fast-paced, character-driven sketches, often with a twist of their own perspective as a British-American couple. We Are Thomasse has also had viral success making comedy videos. So much so that Facebook approached them to be a part of a pilot program for independent creators. They accepted their offer and saw a significant increase in their fanbase!In this episode, Amy talks to We Are Thomasse as they are hiding in a closet in Disneyland. It’s how all the coolest comedians are doing podcasts these days (no big deal). Sarah and Nick talk about having confidence as a performer, writing satire for activism, and dealing with anger. We also talk about We Are Thomasse’s dedication to having a positive impact on the world and the work they have done to that end. Listen in for the story of the craziest show they ever did… in a living room… in The Netherlands!Support We Are Thomasse by watching all of their videos on Youtube! And if you ever have a chance to go see them, you should experience the hilarity of We Are Thomasse in person!Yes But Why Podcast is a proud member of the HC Universal Network family of podcasts. Download the FREE HC Universal Network app for Android and iDevices or visit us at HCUniversalNetwork.com and join the fun.This episode of Yes But Why podcast is sponsored by audible - get your FREE audiobook download and your 30 day free trial at http://www.audibletrial.com/YESBUTWHY.

This week’s Yes But Why episode is a superfun chat with British-American comedy couple, We Are Thomasse. We Are Thomasse is a Los Angeles based sketch group made up of married couple Nick Afka Thomas (who is British) and Sarah Ann Masse (who is American). They perform live shows regularly in Los Angeles and around the world. Their show consists of fast-paced, character-driven sketches, often with a twist of their own perspective as a British-American couple. We Are Thomasse has also had viral success making comedy videos. So much so that Facebook approached them to be a part of a pilot program for independent creators. They accepted their offer and saw a significant increase in their fanbase! In this episode, Amy talks to We Are Thomasse as they are hiding in a closet in Disneyland. It’s how all the coolest comedians are doing podcasts these days (no big deal). Sarah and Nick talk about having confidence as a performer, writing satire for activism, and dealing with anger. We also talk about We Are Thomasse’s dedication to having a positive impact on the world and the work they have done to that end. Listen in for the story of the craziest show they ever did… in a living room… in The Netherlands! Support We Are Thomasse by watching all of their videos on Youtube! And if you ever have a chance to go see them, you should experience the hilarity of We Are Thomasse in person! Yes But Why Podcast is a proud member of the HC Universal Network family of podcasts. Download the FREE HC Universal Network app for Android and iDevices or visit us at HCUniversalNetwork.com and join the fun. This episode of Yes But Why podcast is sponsored by audible - get your FREE audiobook download and your 30 day free trial at http://www.audibletrial.com/YESBUTWHY.

It’s time to revisit a film that glorified the service sector over the banking industry! Marshall and Laura are joined by British-American husband-and-wife comedy duo Nick Afka Thomas and Sarah Ann Masse of “We Are Thomasse” to explore, among other things: the mysterious origin of Mary Poppins’ powers, Dick Van Dyke’s very questionable cockney accent, and whatever the hell a “tuppence” is.Sarah Ann Masse is an actress, writer, singer, and comedian from the United States, currently living in Los Angeles.Nick Afka Thomas is an actor, writer, dancer and comedian originally from the United Kingdom, now living in Los Angeles.They have channeled their cultural differences and comedic talents into creating an enormous body of sketch comedy under the banner "We Are Thomasse." Check out their videos on and their live shows all around the world!

WeMakeTheFunny.com presents: Let's Chat Comedy with KL Thomas!On this episode KL speaks with British-American Comedy couple We Are Thomasse. Sara Ann Masse and Nick Afka Thomas speak about their success working together as a married power couple. Check out We Are Thomasse on Twitter: http://twitter.com/WeAreThomasse Check out We Are Thomasse on the web: http://WeAreThomasse.com Follow WeMakeTheFunny.com on Twitter: twitter.com/WeMakeTheFunnyFollow WeMakeTheFunny on Facebook: www.facebook.com/WeMakeTheFunny/?fref=tsFollow KL Thomas on Twitter: twitter.com/KLThomasnyc123*This is a WeMakeTheFunny.com production See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Sarah Ann Masse and Nick Afka Thomas come together to form the sketch team We Are Thomasse. Sarah and Nick met in New York, became a comedy team chatting via the internet on opposite sides of the pond, and quickly fell in love when they met again in New York City. I chat with Nick and Sarah about their genesis as both a comedy duo, and a married couple, and so much more! To learn more about We Are Thomasse, as well as Sarah and Nick, check out WeAreThomasse.com! Follow the show on Twitter at @DHAPshow, listen to and subscribe on iTunes, Stitcher and TuneIn Radio (leave a comment and 5 stars!)! Check out DHAPshow.com & listen to DHAP Show! at AltSportsTalk.com! #phenomenal