Dateline NBC

The jury weighs in at the trial of Kouri Richins, the Utah grief author and momofthree accused of murdering her husband. In Provo, Utah, prosecutors say greed is at the heart of their case against Meggan Sundwall, a nurse accused of injecting her friend with a fatal dose of insulin.  In Dateline Round Up, the ex-lover of convicted killer and former MLB pitcher Dan Serafini learns her fate. And a potentially game-changing ruling in a 30-year-old murder case. Plus, AI is being used to write police reports and predict crimes. Does it work?   This episode discusses suicide. If you or someone you know is in crisis, call the Suicide & Crisis Lifeline at 988 or visit 988lifeline.org for more resources.   Find out more about the cases covered each week here: www.datelinetruecrimeweekly.com   Start listening to "Trace of Suspicion" here: https://www.nbcnews.com/traceofsuspicion Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Blayne Alexander sits down with Andrea Canning to talk about her episode, “Take Two,” about a murder-for-hire plot targeting the wife of podiatrist Ira Bernstein. Blayne and Andrea break down the undercover sting involving a car salesman who stepped in to play the role of hit man, and the shocking twist that happened after the guilty parties had done their time, making the case feel more like a movie than real life. Plus, they play a portion of Andrea's interview with a detective that didn't make the broadcast, which reveals another potential plot against Susan Bernstein. Andrea reflects on her own experience going undercover, and she and Blayne answer your questions from social media. Have a question for Talking Dateline? DM us @DatelineNBC or leave a voicemail at (212) 413-5252 – your question could be featured in an upcoming episode. Listen to the full episode of “Take Two” on Apple: https://apple.co/3N8I0VZ Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/0X5hkAuixjqqAvfPxnXkOQ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

A shocking new chapter unfolds in the case of a wealthy podiatrist caught on hidden camera with his girlfriend plotting to hire a hit man to kill his wife. Andrea Canning reports. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Mom-of-three Kouri Richins stands trial in Utah for the alleged murder of her husband. Prosecutors call her ex-lover to testify and he weeps on the stand. In Florida, the man who confessed to gunning down Microsoft employee Jared Bridegan takes back his confession and guilty plea, potentially upending the case. In Dateline Round Up, a verdict in Dale Warner's trial for murdering his wife, plus new filings in the case of alleged Gilgo Beach serial killer Rex Heuermann. And Josh Mankiewicz gives a sneak peek of his new podcast, "Trace of Suspicion."   Find out more about the cases covered each week here: www.datelinetruecrimeweekly.com   Start listening to "Trace of Suspicion" here:  https://www.nbcnews.com/traceofsuspicion Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Keith Morrison and Josh Mankiewicz sit down to discuss Josh's latest episode, “The Professor & The Poet.” Sue Marcum, a beloved accounting professor at American University, was found dead in her Bethesda, Maryland, home. When police tracked down her stolen car, they thought maybe her murder was the result of a robbery gone wrong. But DNA pointed to someone much closer to home: Sue's Spanish teacher and friend, Jorge Rueda Landeros. By the time authorities connected him to the crime, Landeros had fled to Mexico, where he lived and taught yoga for more than a decade before his arrest and eventual conviction. Josh and Keith talk about the dangers of loving the wrong person and the importance of listening to your friends' advice. Plus, Josh reminisces about his childhood in Bethesda and what it was like to go back there as a Dateline correspondent. He also shares an extra clip from his interview with the killer's ex-girlfriend. Listen to the full episode of “The Professor & The Poet” on Apple:https://apple.co/4rmNZ7k Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/6anAENlSGSqxdP08dFAUU8 Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey Dateline fans! As a bonus, we're giving you a special preview clip of our new podcast series, Trace of Suspicion. After seemingly healthy 23-year-old Marine Todd Sommer dies unexpectedly, his widow Cindy's lavish spending, cosmetic surgery, and wild partying raise investigators' suspicions. They accuse her of poisoning him with arsenic for his life insurance, setting off a criminal case that takes a stunning turn... Josh Mankiewicz sits down with the woman at the center of it all in Dateline's newest podcast.  If you like what you hear, just search Trace of Suspicion to listen to the first two episodes now, completely free. Or subscribe to Dateline Premium on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or DatelinePremium.com. Subscribers get early access to new episodes and can listen to all Dateline podcasts ad-free. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

When Sue Marcum is found murdered in her Maryland home, it appears to be a burglary gone wrong. But DNA from the scene points detectives toward someone she trusted. Josh Mankiewicz reports. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In Utah, the murder trial of mom of three Kouri Richins enters its second week. Richins' former housekeeper testifies about buying drugs for Kouri before Eric Richins' death. She says Kouri asked for something "stronger". In South Carolina, Scott Spivey's shooting death comes under review by a judge. One of the men who shot Spivey testifies. In Dateline Round Up, the latest on the murder trials of Michigan farmer Dale Warner, and former Miami Hurricanes player, Rashaun Jones. Plus, a veteran police chief gives his tips on photo lineups.   Find out more about the cases covered each week here: www.datelinetruecrimeweekly.com Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

With Blayne on assignment, Lester Holt talks with Senior Producer Allison Orr and Producer Ann Preisman about Blayne's latest episode, "Malice." Just over a year into his new marriage, Jake Embert was found dead from what would quickly be ruled a self-inflicted gunshot. Jake's family did not accept the ruling, believing he had been killed by his new wife.  They hired a private investigator who presented his findings to authorities, resulting in Jake's manner of death being changed to homicide. Susan Embert was charged with her husband's murder and eventually found guilty and sentenced to life. Allison and Ann discuss the credentials needed to become a coroner and play an extra clip of Blayne confronting Susan about a Facebook post she made in the days following her husband's death. Plus, Lester and Ann answer your questions from social media.  This episode discusses suicide. If you or someone you know is in crisis, call the Suicide & Crisis Lifeline at 988 or visit 988lifeline.org for more resources. Listen to the full episode “Malice” on Apple: https://apple.co/3PcKoLI Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/6vQ1hNSjEf6GUKiNTvEfV0 Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey Dateline fans! As a bonus for you, we're sharing the trailer for Trace of Suspicion, an all-new original podcast series from Dateline and Josh Mankiewicz. After seemingly healthy 23-year-old Marine Todd Sommer dies unexpectedly, his widow Cindy's lavish spending, cosmetic surgery, and wild partying raise investigators' suspicions. They accuse her of poisoning him with arsenic for his life insurance, setting off a criminal case that takes a stunning turn... Josh Mankiewicz sits down with the woman at the center of it all in Dateline's newest podcast.  Follow now to get the first two episodes on Tuesday, March 10 completely free. Or subscribe to Dateline Premium on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or DatelinePremium.com to hear the first two episodes now. Subscribers receive ad-free listening and early access to subsequent episodes. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Officials rule Jake Embert's death a suicide. Then his family hires a private investigator, who uncovers troubling details that suggest not everything is as it seems. Blayne Alexander reports. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The highly anticipated trial of Utah mom-of-three Kouri Richins is finally underway. Prosecutors say she poisoned her husband with fentanyl. In Miami, jurors watch video testimony of an eyewitness who may have seen the killer of football player Bryan Pata. In Dateline Round Up, Nick Reiner enters a plea and a former American Idol contestant is arrested for murder. Plus, in light of her mother Nancy's disappearance, Savannah Guthrie calls for greater attention to missing persons cases. We share the story of Olivia Lone Bear, a young mother whose death is still unsolved.   Nancy Guthrie Tipline: 1-800-CALL-FBI (1-800-225-5324)   Unresolved: The Case of Olivia Lone Bear: https://www.nbcnews.com/dateline/video/unresolved-the-case-of-olivia-lone-bear-119617605728   Find out more about the cases covered each week here: www.datelinetruecrimeweekly.com Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Blayne Alexander sits down with Keith Morrison to discuss his original series, “Murder & Magnolias.” In 2017, a bitter divorce between prominent Charleston, South Carolina, couple Chris and Nancy Latham spiraled into a murder-for-hire investigation that stunned the community. Blayne and Keith break down the key moments in the case, including the unlikely person who helped authorities crack it, and the “hit packet” that brought the plot into focus. Plus, Dateline producer Carol Gable joins the conversation to discuss where Nancy Latham is today and what it took to report the story. Keith also talks about what -- if any -- his aspirations were before getting into journalism, and the team reflects on some of their most dangerous moments in the field. Plus, they answer viewer and listener questions. Have a question for Talking Dateline? DM us @DatelineNBC or leave a voicemail at (212) 413-5252. Your question could be featured in an upcoming episode. Listen to the series on Apple: https://apple.co/40tIdpy Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4VpCDcpZxWVTEuJrZCKMoj Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

A hit man arrives in Charleston, South Carolina with a member of a wealthy and well-known family in his crosshairs. This episode was originally published on November 15, 2022. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

A manila envelope filled with maps and photos helps investigators start to unravel a deadly plot. This episode was originally published on November 15, 2022. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The investigation into a murder plot leads to a femme fatale with a past. This episode was originally published on November 22, 2022. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Lovers on the line in jailhouse phone calls reveal new clues. Then, a big arrest. This episode was originally published on November 29, 2022. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

A hit man makes a choice, and the trial gets underway. This episode was originally published on December 6, 2022. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The jury renders its verdicts. Afterwards, a remarkable moment of forgiveness takes place. This episode was originally published on December 13, 2022, and updated on February 23, 2026. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In Michigan, prosecutors play bodycam at the trial of Dale Warner, a farmer on trial for allegedly murdering his wife and concealing her body in a fertilizer tank. In Miami, twenty years after Bryan Pata, the star defensive lineman on the University of Miami football team, was gunned down on the way home from practice, his teammate goes on trial for his murder. In Dateline Round Up, verdicts in the Paul Caneiro and Tara Baker trials. Plus, NBC News' Vicky Nguyen shares some tips on stadium safety.   Nancy Guthrie Tipline: 1-800-CALL-FBI (1-800-225-5324)   Nancy Guthrie images: https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/nancy-guthrie   Find out more about the cases covered each week here: www.datelinetruecrimeweekly.com Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Andrea Canning sits down with Keith Morrison to discuss his original podcast series, "The Girl in the Blue Mustang." After 18-year-old Michelle O'Keefe was found murdered in a California park-and-ride in 2000. In 2009 --  after two juries deadlocked -- security guard Raymond Lee Jennings was convicted of her murder at a third trial. But everything changed in 2015 when a Dateline viewer saw the story and vowed to prove Jennings's innocence. The conviction was overturned by a judge and Jennings was released after more than a decade in prison. Keith tells Andrea what it was like covering this story for decades, both in and out of the courtroom. Later, they talk about other stories they've done involving multiple trials. Plus, Keith shares two exclusive clips: one from his interview with that curious Dateline watcher, Clint Ehrlich, and another with the man Clint helped get exonerated. Have a question for Talking Dateline? DM us a video to @DatelineNBC or leave a voicemail at (212) 413-5252. Your question may be featured in an upcoming episode. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

She loved her shiny blue Mustang. Then it became a crime scene. This episode was originally published on March 14, 2023. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Police investigating Michelle O'Keefe's murder encounter a talkative witness. Maybe too talkative. This episode was originally published on March 14, 2023. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

A retired sheriff's deputy sees Michelle O'Keefe's smiling face on a billboard and asks to join the investigation. This episode was originally published on March 21, 2023. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

After three trials, a verdict. But a Dateline viewer could change everything… This episode was originally published on March 28, 2023. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

An attorney and his son undertake a new review of the evidence in Michelle's murder and get a surprise opportunity to make their case to prosecutors. This episode was originally published on April 4, 2023. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

A big decision. New theories. And a mystery man revealed. This episode was originally published on April 11, 2023. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The latest on the search for Nancy Guthrie, the 84-year-old mother of Today Show co-anchor Savannah Guthrie. The FBI releases video of a masked man on Nancy's doorstep the night she went missing. In Georgia, a man is on trial for the 2001 murder of a law student. His defense attorney has tough questions for the victim's boyfriend. In Dateline Round Up, a courtroom outburst from Luigi Mangione, and Alex Murdaugh appeals his case. Plus, a lookback at the attack on Olympic figure skater Nancy Kerrigan.Nancy Guthrie Tipline: 1-800-CALL-FBI (1-800-225-5324)Nancy Guthrie images: https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/nancy-guthrieFind out more about the cases covered each week here: www.datelinetruecrimeweekly.com Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Lester Holt talks with Keith Morrison about his original podcast series “The Thing About Helen & Olga.” A team of seasoned detectives uncover horrifying murder plots in Los Angeles orchestrated by a pair of unlikely suspects: two elderly ladies named Helen Golay and Olga Rutterschmidt. Keith tells Lester who he believes was the mastermind of their devious schemes and plays extra sound from the manager of a mom-and-pop lighting store who had his own run-in with the “girls.” They're joined by Dateline Senior Producer Susan Leibowitz, who shares a story about why she returned to the church where Helen and Olga volunteered “helping” the homeless long after reporting on the story.Have a question for Talking Dateline? DM us a video to @DatelineNBC or leave a voicemail at (212) 413-5252. Your question may be featured in an upcoming episode. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Helen and Olga are on a mission to help homeless men in Los Angeles, when tragedy strikes. Twice. This episode was originally published on November 16, 2021. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

An insurance investigator's hunch leads law enforcement to assign a task force to tail two little old ladies. This episode was originally published on November 16, 2021. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The Granny Task Force conducts simultaneous early-morning raids at the homes of Helen and Olga. This episode was originally published on November 16, 2021. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Detectives leave Helen and Olga alone together in a room wired for sound. Old resentments boil over. This episode was originally published on November 16, 2021. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The investigation goes into high gear with the discovery of the murder weapon. This episode was originally published on November 16, 2021. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Fireworks and finger pointing in court as two little old ladies do whatever it takes to beat a murder rap. This episode was originally published on November 16, 2021, and updated on February 9, 2026. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In Virginia, Brendan Banfield testifies at his double murder trial, and the jury returns a verdict. Former Olympian Ryan Wedding, who prosecutors say swapped his snowboard for the drug underworld, is now behind bars, facing multiple drug and murder charges. He says he's not guilty. Updates in the Luigi Mangione and the Gabby Petito cases. Plus, a digital expert shares tips on protecting yourself from catfishing scams. Nancy Guthrie Tipline: 1-800-CALL-FBI (1-800-225-5324) Get resources on domestic violence: https://www.thehotline.org/ Find out more about the cases covered each week here: www.datelinetruecrimeweekly.com Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Andrea Canning and Blayne Alexander sit down to discuss Blayne's latest episode, "Bringing Jay Home." When 20-year-old Jimmie "Jay" Lee -- a proud gay man, Ole Miss student, and loving son -- went missing in 2022,  police put together a painful theory: Jay's former classmate Sheldon Timothy Herrington killed him out of fear that their relationship would be exposed. More than three years and one mistrial later, Herrington confessed to the murder. Blayne talks about the powerful legacy Jay Lee left behind and the passionate investigators who tackled his case. Plus, she shares a podcast-exclusive clip from her interview with Jay's parents. Then, she and Andrea answer viewer and listener questions from social media.  Have a question for Talking Dateline? DM us a video to @DatelineNBC or leave a voicemail at (212) 413-5252. Your question may be featured in an upcoming episode.Listen to the full episode “Bringing Jay Home” on Apple:https://apple.co/3ZcraI7Listen on Spotify:https://open.spotify.com/episode/17AuUeUpFBQo31JfpB5J1B Dateline Premium subscribers can listen to the After the Verdict episode that featured retired detective Lisa Miller, whose comment was featured in the social media section of this episode.Listen on Apple: https://apple.co/3OkiL2SListen on Spotify: https://dateline.supportingcast.fm/listen/dateline-nbc-premium/after-the-verdict-while-she-was-sleeping Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Andrea Canning and Blayne Alexander sit down to discuss Blayne's latest episode, "Bringing Jay Home." When 20-year-old Jimmie "Jay" Lee -- a proud gay man, Ole Miss student, and loving son -- went missing in 2022,  police put together a painful theory: Jay's former classmate Sheldon Timothy Herrington killed him out of fear that their relationship would be exposed. More than three years and one mistrial later, Herrington confessed to the murder. Blayne talks about the powerful legacy Jay Lee left behind and the passionate investigators who tackled his case. Plus, she shares a podcast-exclusive clip from her interview with Jay's parents. Then, she and Andrea answer viewer and listener questions from social media.  Have a question for Talking Dateline? DM us a video to @DatelineNBC or leave a voicemail at (212) 413-5252. Your question may be featured in an upcoming episode. Listen to the full episode “Bringing Jay Home” on Apple:https://apple.co/3ZcraI7Listen on Spotify:https://open.spotify.com/episode/17AuUeUpFBQo31JfpB5J1B Dateline Premium subscribers can listen to the After the Verdict episode that featured retired detective Lisa Miller, whose comment was featured in the social media section of this episode.Listen on Apple: https://apple.co/3OkiL2SListen on Spotify: https://dateline.supportingcast.fm/listen/dateline-nbc-premium/after-the-verdict-while-she-was-sleeping Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Andrea Canning and Blayne Alexander sit down to discuss Blayne's latest episode, "Bringing Jay Home." When 20-year-old Jimmie "Jay" Lee -- a proud gay man, Ole Miss student, and loving son -- went missing in 2022,  police put together a painful theory: Jay's former classmate Sheldon Timothy Herrington killed him out of fear that their relationship would be exposed. More than three years and one mistrial later, Herrington confessed to the murder. Blayne talks about the powerful legacy Jay Lee left behind and the passionate investigators who tackled his case. Plus, she shares a podcast-exclusive clip from her interview with Jay's parents. Then, she and Andrea answer viewer and listener questions from social media.  Have a question for Talking Dateline? DM us a video to @DatelineNBC or leave a voicemail at (212) 413-5252. Your question may be featured in an upcoming episode. Listen to the full episode “Bringing Jay Home” on Apple:https://apple.co/3ZcraI7Listen on Spotify:https://open.spotify.com/episode/17AuUeUpFBQo31JfpB5J1B Dateline Premium subscribers can listen to the After the Verdict episode that featured retired detective Lisa Miller, whose comment was featured in the social media section of this episode.Listen on Apple: https://apple.co/3OkiL2SListen on Spotify: https://dateline.supportingcast.fm/listen/dateline-nbc-premium/after-the-verdict-while-she-was-sleeping Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

A University of Mississippi student vanishes from his apartment. Friends and family fear that his identity as a Black gay man may complicate the pursuit of justice. Blayne Alexander reports. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In Virginia, Brendan Banfield, the man accused of murdering his wife and a complete stranger, says the prosecution's theory is "absolutely crazy." In Georgia, law student Tara Baker's murder went unsolved for two decades, until the family teamed up with a podcaster to try and solve her murder. Her alleged killer is now heading to trial. Updates in the case of Utah mom, Kouri Richins, and the trial of the New Jersey businessman accused of a quadruple murder. Plus, what clues to look for when investigating a murder without a body Find out more about the cases covered each week here: www.datelinetruecrimeweekly.com Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Lester Holt talks with Andrea Canning about her episode, “Secrets in the Ashes.” When 31-year-old Texas mother Patricia Leigh Mills is found dead in a house fire, her family suspects her husband, Delbert, of setting the blaze that killed her, suspicions that only grow when he remarries less than two months after the death of his wife. Years later, after Delbert is convicted of Patricia Leigh's murder, attention turns to his now ex-wife, Allison Salinas, who had moved to a new state, gotten remarried, and then tried to enlist her high school boyfriend to kill her husband. Andrea tells Lester about her prison interviews with Allison and Delbert, and they play a podcast-exclusive clip of Delbert describing his biggest regret. Plus, they answer your questions from social media. Have a question for Talking Dateline? DM us a video to @DatelineNBC or leave a voicemail at (212) 413-5252. Your question may be featured in an upcoming episode.Listen to the full episode “Secrets in the Ashes” on Apple: https://apple.co/4k1nVwNListen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/0RhpCOtSZeY5jS2EPUHxkb?si=8de6f7cea7b64e06 Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.