Podcast appearances and mentions of Samuel P Taylor

Closing out the final days of the trip, we have another multipart fast forward through some seriously hot towns to get to Samuel P. Taylor campground. After that it's as much about reflecting on how the ride went as I prepare for crossing the Golden Gate Bridge – still maybe the best finish line in bike travel! How'd the bike do, and will it get back in the bag ok for the return trip home? PDX-SF2x – The Final Days Quick catchup on the tour plans PDX-SF Every day has some biking and bussing Connections are… tight in parts Fully loaded, but on the light side Got my bike serviced ahead of departure. We'll get into that. Listen to episode 330 for more!   Statistics Miles bussed 184 Miles biked 31 Number of energy bars I saw consumed at camp 8000 Golden Gates crossed 1 Approximate number of hours of deep conversation with MJ 27 Zip ties still on my bike as this episode drops 4 Flats 0   Next week… October's best of and the week after, some interesting takeaways from this adventure!

Greetings Glocal Citizens! This week on the podcast it's our first family affair. In a one year later flashback, I had the pleasure of meeting Elizabeth "Liz" Rollins-Moskowitz, mother of my guest from Episode 37 (https://glocalcitizens.fireside.fm/37), Salim Rollins. Liz describes herself as "an 82-year old trying to grow up and figure life out." With roots in Westchester County, New York, Liz traveled the world first when her parents moved to Switzerland as a teenager and later as a model and wife of modern day Renaissance Man, acclaimed photographer, musician, writer and film director, Gordon Parks. In her modeling career, Liz appeared in Life Magazine, Vogue Magazine, Ebony Magazine, and other well-known publications of the times. Liz currently lives in Mill Valley, California where she continues to paint and is happily grandmothering, book clubbing, and meditating. Where to find Liz? On Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100009135356907) What's Liz reading? Under the River into the Sea (https://read.amazon.com/kp/embed?asin=B071FZSWP1&preview=newtab&linkCode=kpe&ref_=cm_sw_r_kb_dp_M7YPX1PBBB2DS5SMYRA7&tag=glocalcitiz0e-20) by Walter Mosley The Melody Lingers On (https://read.amazon.com/kp/embed?asin=B00NR1CZIE&preview=newtab&linkCode=kpe&ref_=cm_sw_r_kb_dp_T666ES0PDKXC5FN07GDY&tag=glocalcitiz0e-20) by Mary Higgins Clark The Interpreter of Maladies (https://read.amazon.com/kp/embed?asin=B003K16PBE&preview=newtab&linkCode=kpe&ref_=cm_sw_r_kb_dp_2MHEE5DDGXCQF7C9E2R8&tag=glocalcitiz0e-20) by Jhumpa Lahiri [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jhumpa_Lahiri] Other topics of interest: About Liz's father, E. Simms Campbell (https://www.blackpast.org/african-american-history/campbell-e-simms-1906-1971/) About Gordon Parks (https://www.gordonparksfoundation.org/gordon-parks/biography) The Learning Tree (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064579/) Ebony Fashion Fair Freda DeKnight's (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freda_DeKnight) Date with a Dish (https://read.amazon.com/kp/embed?asin=B00ILRCCQO&preview=newtab&linkCode=kpe&ref_=cm_sw_r_kb_dp_XSV424QS32AMG5443K9P&tag=glocalcitiz0e-20) Harlem's Hotel Theresa (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotel_Theresa) Cab Calloway (https://www.biography.com/musician/cab-calloway) Duke Ellington (https://www.biography.com/musician/duke-ellington) Count Basie (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Count_Basie) Spirit Rock Meditation Center (https://www.spiritrock.org/) On Education Reform in School Books (https://www.nytimes.com/1964/02/09/archives/education-integrated-books-segregated-primers-are-target-of-reform.html) Samuel P. Taylor Park (http://www.redwoodhikes.com/Taylor/Taylor.html) Kokrobitey Institute (https://www.kokrobiteyinstitute.org/#kokrobitey-institute) *When you click and purchase books using the links above, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. Thank you for your support! Special Guest: Elizabeth Rollins-Moskowitz.

This week we speak with Caroline Dezendorf of the Easton Overland Gravel Team and the Marin County Bike Coalition. We learn of Caroline's start in the sport and her work supporting cycling in Marin County and beyond. Sponsored by Athletic Greens, the all-in-one daily drink to support better health and peak performance. Episode Links: Caroline Dezendorf Instagram  Marin County Bike Coalition Website Automated Transcription, please forgive the typos. All right, Caroline, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me, Craig. Yeah, we always like to start off by learning a little bit more of your background as a gravel cyclist. Can you talk about how you originally discovered riding off road and maybe a progression from other elements in the sport until gravel racing? Yeah. I didn't get into bikes till the end of college. My senior year of college, I needed a sport that, of like to fulfill the void of growing up, playing soccer and not really having anything. And I found triathlon and did triathlon for a year in college at UC Santa Barbara. And it was really fun at his background as a swimmer, but the only thing I really liked about it was the bike. So I started racing on the road instead, and then went immediately to grad school and walked into a shop in Eugene, Oregon. When I first got up to a university of Oregon for grad school and the guys in the shop were like, have you heard of cyclocross? And I was like, no, they're like, great. You should come out to a race tonight and borrow a bike and like try it out. And I was, so I got out there, crashed over every barrier I encountered but was immediately hooked. And so I started racing off-road and cyclocross, and then racing in the Bay for team Mike's bikes. I decided to start racing mountain bikes and really enjoyed it. And then it's just kind of like taken off from there. I think my first gravel race per se was the nog girl grind Duro. I think that was 2015. And I raised my rock lobster cyclocross bike and won it, won the pro women's category and it was kind of hooked on this like long distance gravel writing, something that I always do with my friends, but like, it was kind of fun to have this new format that, you know, normally my races are 45 minutes around a very small, you know, two mile a track for cyclocross. And so it's kinda cool now having this like adventure thing that is competitive, but more just hanging out with friends and going on a cool adventure. Yeah, it's interesting. I was talking to Amanda Naaman a few weeks back and she had mentioned she had the similar progression from triathlon to cyclocross. What do you think it is about the sport of cyclocross that kind of was attractive to you at the time? For me, it was in Oregon. The cross crusade series is so incredible. It's just like this huge series. Like you go to these events and there's a thousand, 2000 and the women's fields are 50 plus deep and just, you know, amazing talent like Beth and Orton. When I first started racing was like my idol. She was just like this, this amazing. I mean, I love Beth. She's still a really good friend, but she was just like this amazing person. And it was something that I hadn't experienced. And I think, you know, even though you're, you're doing these small circles and cross it's no two races are the same. I mean, you know, there's races. I go back to year after year after year and every year, the conditions are different. The weather's different, you know, the competition is different and it's exciting and it's challenging. And it's even though like, it's, you know, you can race with a team or race, you know, you're racing with a bunch of really strong competitors. You're really racing yourself. You're, you're challenging yourself and you know, the other people in the race really don't matter. There aren't very many, there are some cross races where you do find road tactics in play. You are in a small group and you are attacking each other, but I'll often, you know, in, in muddy races, it's just, you're fighting yourself and trying to figure out how to do it yourself. And so at the end of the day, you know, you all hug and smile and laugh and high five each other. And like most of my best friends now I've met through racing cyclocross. Awesome. And cyclocross, obviously being traditionally a winter sport, although it kicks off pretty early here in Northern California. What type of writing were you doing in the off season from cyclocross the last few years that kind of set the stage for you to kind of jump full force and the gravel racing? I mean, quite honestly it was, it was adventure riding. It was going out on long rides on my cross bikes. I really like riding my cross bikes on single track and on technical trail and kind of challenging my skills in that way. So it was going on these long adventure rides. I, I'm a total math geek. I love making routes. I love finding new routes and challenging myself with like these new places I haven't been. So a lot has been like, I really want to go out to this really remote place that I've never been before. And so let's find a gravel or a mountain bike loop that, you know, is 45 to 80 to whatever a hundred miles and let's go check it out. So a lot of that kind of writing. Yeah, that's awesome. And we'll get into your work at the Marine County bike coalition, but I have the Marin County bike map and I just geek out over it because having the gravel bike and the great roads we have around here, you can just create these amazing mixed terrain loops that I never thought was possible prior to kind of getting this type of bike and, and getting that map. Totally. Yeah. That map is amazing. Or actually I'm just updating that map with tons of new trails that have come up recently and it should be, it should be out in the next month. And I'll, they'll show a lot more of the good stuff in Marin. Yeah. I'm excited for that to go check out the Bill's trail that I read about. And a couple of the other pieces that the Marine County bike coalition has been working on. Yeah. Bill's, if you haven't had a chance to check it out is definitely a worthwhile trail. It's four miles long, but it's incredible. And it was made well re remade. It was a trail already, but re-established with mountain biking in mind, so it's really flowy. And it's through my favorite kind of ecosystem is Redwood Fern forest. And it connects so it's Alan, Samuel P. Taylor, if you haven't been out there which is really cool. So it's a California state park and it's really nice to have another mountain bike trail on the state park and it connects devil's goals, fire road to Mount Barnaby. And so the views, when you're up there are incredible. And then, I mean, connecting that with like San Jeronimo Valley and the fire roads out there, you can just put together such an amazing loop. Yeah. Interesting note about Samuel Taylor park, it's the birthplace of recreational camping in the United States? I found out, Huh? I did not know that. That's awesome. They also have bike camping there. Yeah, absolutely. So 2020 was clearly designed to be a pretty big gravel season for you. You were, you were selected to join the Eastern Overland team. Can you talk about that team and what the vision is and sort of just give us a little insight about what it's like being a member? Yeah, it was, this is such a surreal season. I was really excited to be racing with Eastern Overland. It's an amazing group of people. Matt Harlan is a team manager and he's just compiled this like amazing group amny Rockwell or who's one dirty Kansas last year at Caitlin Bernstein, who is my best friend in the entire world. And Matt Licata, who's up in Oregon and Michael Vanderham, which is a super awesome Canadian super amazing cyclocross athlete as well, Canadian national champion. And so it was just like this incredible group of people that I was excited to write race with. I've raced with Easton for a cyclocross for the last couple of years, they've been a big sponsor. And it was really nice to be able to like raise with them a little bit more have their support in this different capacity. And you know, the, the team is really unique in the fact that it brings together people with very different backgrounds and skillsets. And also we get to kind of have our own style in it. So I raced with [inaudible] on the Sparrow and the other members of the team, Matt Leanna, also races on Savella. And the other members of the team also have their own bike sponsors. And so it's kind of neat cause we get to bring our own kind of flare and style into it. And that kind of a water audience and also just represent in different capacities. So I really liked being able to have my personal relationship with Cervelo, but at the same time, like be part of this team and this kind of conglomerate that we all, you know, currently our conversation right now, cause we have nothing else better to do is how to make sourdough bread the best we can make it. I'm not a bread maker, so I'm just kind of listening in, but it's amazing the, the detail that goes into a sourdough bread making. Yeah. I think it's a super refreshing concept. I love seeing all the team members with different frames. It's just, it, I think that's sort of, to me, it's like, what's, gravel's all about right. We don't want these big pro squads coming in and dominating, but like I love that it's a squad that each member has its own personality in a way to kind of reflect the brands that they want to be riding with. Yeah. And it highlights the uniqueness of the writers. You know, I, I I'm predominantly an off road athlete. Like I dabble in road races. I did one road race this year before you know, the season got shut down, but I definitely, you know, come from a little bit more of a road background and, and like re like riding on the road. And so having the Savella, that's very much oriented as like a an endurance like fast paced, you know, Peloton kind of racing. Gravel bike is perfect for me, but that being said, it's still rips on descends and still rips on single tracks. So I ride that bike everywhere, but then, you know, Caitlin Bernstein she's on DaVinci and that bike is totally a mountain bike, like Caitlin on, on that bike. I can't keep up with, because it's, the geometry is just so much more of a mountain bike and it's, it's a very different, you know, style. So it's really cool because when we're all together, every bike and every person riding has this unique flair and unique style and it's kind of fun to see it that way. It's very different from any other team I've been on. Yeah. And I think that's, again, going back to it just being sort of indicative to the sport in general, I love that, that you need to choose the equipment for how you want to ride the bike. So if you want to be aggressive, you can go bigger tires and a slacker geometry, or if you're more comfortable on the road section, you know, and that were, you know, roadie type position. That's cool too. But at some point in any given race or ride, you're going to have a shortcoming or you're going to have a better setup than the other person. And I think it just makes it really interesting when you're out there. Totally. Yeah. Before everything got, got shut down this year, I was able to race the super sweet water grasshopper, and I raised it on my server yellow with 35 millimeter Schwabie tires. And so I definitely had a gravel set up for this very much long, you know, 60 plus mile road race, but that bike was amazing. I was, you know, up there top five women for the majority of the race and, you know, keeping up with everybody on 28 millimeter tires and on, on, you know, true road frames. And the Sparrow is just like, it's so fast. Like it climbed so well. And it was like ideal for that. And then two weeks later, you know, we, we flew out to Oklahoma for mid South gravel, right before shelter and place happened. And I threw on 33 millimeter essentially cyclocross shall be cyclocross tires. And, you know, we had this eight hour Mudfest through Oklahoma red clay and, you know, the bike on that, like handled super, super well just, you know, so it's like it's and, you know, Caitlin and I rode together and she was on her DaVinci with like 40 millimeter tires. And, you know, we're, she's, she's pushing the pace on the climbs and I'm doing my best to keep up with her. And then I, anytime we hit like a flat section, I was just like, alright, right on my wheel, let's go. We were just like, use our strengths in different ways to work together. But it, and it was kinda nice cause it could compliment each other. Well, that race was certainly a sloppy mess. Did you make that tire selection kind of knowing that it was going to be quite muddy on race day? Yeah. Yeah. Matt Lido. Who's on my team and also rides for Savallo. I, I probably bugged him every day for like two weeks going into mid South, trying to figure out the best hire selection. And ultimately we decided the narrowest hire, I could run would be better and, you know, so something that would shed really well and give me the most clearance. They, before the race gave us like Pete six to scrape the mud off our wheels. And thankfully I never actually had to use it. My demise in that race came at mile 90 when my chain dropped between my frame and my chain ring and Katelyn and I spent 45 minutes and watched the 15 girls go past us trying to get my chain and stuck. And it was just, we know, we went from sitting in like top five to sitting top 20. I was like, Katelyn, just leaving. And she's like, we've just done 90 miles together in seven and a half hours. I'm not leaving you out here on the side. And so yeah, that was, that was really the biggest bummer of that race. But it was yeah. Tire choice for that one was pretty key. I think there are a lot of people I ended up running selects for that reason. Yeah. I've heard stories from that race. It's a really interesting in terms of like what the, what, what worked and didn't work for people. At the end of the day, I don't think there was a particularly good choice to other than making sure you had at least as much clearance as possible. Yeah. That, that totally was the biggest thing was just get enough clearance and hope that you don't get bogged down and hope that you know, any chances where you're going to get that peanut butter, mud, or clay all over your bike, just run. And like, so I never even dealt with the, my tire clearance was perfect. I had, my equipment was a dial and I just got super unlucky with a drop chain that I couldn't get unstuck. Yeah. What were you, what were your plans for the rest of the season? Let's see. I, I don't know a lot. I wanted to do, I really wanted to go to raspy Tita in Vermont. I was really looking forward to the Jackson grasshopper that was supposed to happen to may. I was going to go up to Canada for a ride for water. And then, you know, Downieville, which just got canceled, lost and found. I always love racing stuff up in the Sierra Buttes. And then, you know, trying to figure out a couple more from there. I had seen Bo on my radar Oregon gravel was on my radar, a couple of, up in, in Oregon as well. So I was trying to be selective with races because I do usually have a full cyclocross season that runs from September to December and that ends up being a lot of travel and a lot of racing. But at the same time I was feeling really good at the beginning of the season and really excited to be racing. So I kept like texting Katelyn and be like, what about, should we go to the lessons? Should we go to that? And should we go to that? So my season kept expanding because I was so excited to be racing gravel with Easton. And there's just so many cool events that happen all over, all over the place. Yeah, absolutely. I think most of those events that you mentioned we've had as previous guests on the podcast and I would love to see them all. Yeah, yeah. There's some, and everyone is so unique and has its own vibe and experience. And you know, the thing I love about gravel and I think that brings me back is just the community around it. And just how amazing everybody is in the as like I said, famous cyclocross, like as competitive as everybody is like at the end of the day, you're having a drink and celebrating each other and just excited to be out there racing. And I kinda love the comradery that comes with that. Yeah. I hope everybody listens time and time again to the podcast gets that loud and clear because it's really just show up, hit the start line. You're going to have a blast, whether you're first or last. And that's the beauty of this sport. It's quite unlike. It may, maybe it's similar to cyclocross, but quite unlike other elements of the sport that people may have experienced like road racing, where if you get shelled off the back, it's a pretty miserable experience. It's just simply not the case in gravel. Totally. It's, it's totally unique. And I mean, even, you know mid South this year, like Katelyn and I are on the side of the road, we're trying to fix my bike. And everybody that came by, I was like, are you guys okay? And I'd be like, no, we're not okay. And you know, they'd be like, do you want our help? And you know, we kept having all these groups of people come and try to help us, you know, that's knowing you don't get enrolled road Pilcher. Like people aren't just like people are, are in it for themselves a little bit more than helping each other. And I just love like, and gravel that, you know, you're just out there to, to be there. You're not out there like to, when you're out there to enjoy it and to see a unique place and, and ride with, you know, hundreds of your friends. Yeah, absolutely. So you're also working with the Marin County bike coalition as communication director. Do you want to tell us a little bit more about that role? Yeah. So it's a new role for me. I came on with red County bike coalition in March, so I'm just started there, but it's been an organization that I've known very well for the last five, six years since I got into bikes, I moved into the Bay move to the Bay area. And so it's a great organization, it's they do so much good work in Marin, on the roadside, on the off-road side and on education and outreach. And it's been a really unique time to work with them because we've kind of had to change the way we're structuring to deal with the current pandemic. The most amazing thing about this time for us is there has been such an increase in the number of people, riding bikes. And so we're really trying to reach them and, and reach out to them and get them involved with us to be able to support them and give them that better infrastructure. I mean, Marin is just, it's, it's a Mecca for a cycling, the paths you know, beyond grief and Barack, he's our policy and planning director. He works on the roadside and he's worked so hard in the last four years since he came with the organization to really improve on road infrastructure and Moran and, you know, make it a more bike friendly place for everybody there. And you know, Tom boss who runs our off-road program, he's phenomenal and, you know, really, really working to get access to more trails and trail stewardship and, and engaging with so many different people in different groups of people. So you know, I coach I started at NorCal league high school league mountain bike team last year. So it's a program that's really near and dear to my heart. And Tom works really closely with North Hollywood, with Vanessa [inaudible] to get students out, doing trail stewardship and learning how to build trail and Morin. So the last trail day they had was out on the Ponti Ridge trail, which isn't open trail yet. It's a trail and Marin wood Lucas Valley area that will be opening hopefully later this year. But we had 150 kids out there from high schools, high school league working on building trail. So I'm really excited for that trail to open. Hopefully it will open under the season and you know, Bill's trail, like we already mentioned as new trail and Morin that took 14 years to finally be bike legal. I think plans were put into place in 2006 for it to finally be, to, to submit it, to change of use for us to get access to it for a cyclist. And, you know, Tom has been instrumental and, and projects like that that have really opened up more and more land for for mountain biking and Morin. Yeah. And I think it's been done in a really thoughtful way. I remember when Diaz Ridge project was announced and like it's a six or seven years to get that trail finished. And now it's just such an amazing single track for a gravel bike or a mountain bike. And it's such an important connector. And I know one of the future projects is kind of connecting the bottom of Diaz Ridge to coastal view trail, kind of a, they have Heather cutoff, which is a running trail, but cutting another trail through there. And it's just that kind of thoughtfulness that makes me super pumped to have Marine County by coalition supporting my, my desire to ride new trails. Cause it's just going to be an a, it's going to be an amazing connector and all these pieces, I think Tom and the whole crew they think about like, what does that do for your loop? All of a sudden it makes this completely, off-road starting at the golden gate bridge and going all the way, the other side of Tam completely off-road and completely legal possible. Yeah, totally. We that's called our, we have this project that's the gaps initiative. And so it's closing three of the biggest gaps of off-road or lack of access to off road from the golden gate bridge to point rays. And so that connector that you just described between Diaz Ridge which drops you down to near beach, you have to go on highway one to connect to coastal and hopefully we'll have a trail there soon. It's still on the planning phase. And we're hoping to get some more grants and money to help us work on that. And then there's another one out kind of on the backside of Mount Tam and the lakes region that's Azalea Hill and that we just got notice that the water district is going to give us access, give bike, to ask, ask, give bikes, access to a mile and a half of trail that will connect to fire roads and help start decreasing that gap a little bit more. So we're, we're making progress and Tom has been huge and in getting those things done and Moran such a unique place because we're dealing with a lot of different land managers. And it's really amazing to see the relationships built with those and how, you know, the, the progress progress that we can do. And so many different unique environments. Yeah, I think for the problems like this around the country and around the world who are listening, Marin County is an amazing place to ride a bike and there's tons of miles and miles and miles of trails and a lot of great loops that you can create. It's interesting because I think other parts of the country or world might have somehow a little bit more cachet as a destination to go ride your gravel bike. But by my likes, Marin counties should be tops on anybody's list. Oh, totally. I a hundred percent agree with that when I moved down after grad school and moved to San Rafael and Moran I think that's what hooked me. Like we would go out, you know, on these all day adventures and you'd be on road for maybe a mile and he'd be on trail for, you know, 45 miles and, you know, circumnavigating Mount Tam and have these amazing views of the golden gate bridge and, and the Pacific ocean. And it was just like, it was incredible. I mean, there's no other place like it. And you know, there were a lot of nights, like in the middle of the week that we'd be like, Hey, let's go bike camping up on Mount Tam. Cause there's these bike camping spots that no one goes to. And it's something that's really. Yeah, absolutely. You disappeared for a second. It might've been on my end, but no worries. I know also the, the Marine County bike coalition is putting on a couple of events later this year pending obviously the safety of events you've got the dirt and then adventure revival, two events, which showcase those trails we were just referring to and how good they are. Do you want to talk a little bit more about the plan dates for those events and you know, how people should be thinking about it in their calendar, giving you know, everything in the uncertain and be going on in the world? Yeah, so the dirt Fondo is one of our signature events that happens August 15th. And it's, it's a really amazing event, gravel friendly it's mountain bike friendly. I could argue that you could do a lot of it on a road bike because I've read a lot of those trails on a road bike, but not recommended. But it highlights the Marin Headlands and it highlights Mount Tam. So the Queens, the queen route, if you will is 45 miles and it starts when we're at Hedlands and climbs up to the top of Tam and back around. And it's, it's incredible. And then there's routes that are, you know, 30 miles, 20 miles, 10 miles. So it's something that, you know, the whole family could go out and do I drag my sister out there a couple years ago gave her my mountain bike and I rode my cross bike and, you know, she did 30 miles and she's written a mountain bike like four times. And I was like, yes, you're so awesome. It's something that's, and it's, it's just beautiful and everybody's out there. It's not a race, it's not a competitive event. Everybody's out there to have fun and to enjoy the trails and to just like be part of this amazing community. So we're really hoping that happens this year. We are kind of chugging along with plans for that. We're, we're paying really close attention to the gift current situation. And I think, you know, Tom and I are, are talking every day about it, you know, and trying to see what's going to be like, but it's a small event. Registrations capped at 300 people. So we're hoping if anything, this is the kind of event that will happen because it's a regional pole, it's a small event. And we're keeping our fingers crossed because the more we talked to people and the more, you know, we talk, we, we need things to look forward to. And with, everything's starting to be canceled. We're just kinda, we're hoping we don't have to, because we want that normalcy back and we want to be back with our communities. And, you know, we're, we're making contingency plans just in case and where we're strategizing, you know, how potentially, if we are allowed to have a small event, how we can kind of keep social distancing requirements met. So really, you know, taking into consideration what our County and what California says, but we want to be able to, to host it this year, it's a really special event for us. [Inaudible] Wow. And then adventure to revival the later man supports the mountain. Yeah. So adventure revival is September 12th. And that we run in combination with nor Cal league high school league. And so it's a fundraiser for both MCBC and the high school mountain bike league. So again, it's something near and dear to my heart because I coach a team. I ran a team I love I've been involved with the high school league for the last five years. And so that one's really cool. It's it's promoted as a gravel event. So it's a little more fire roadie and a little more has a little more road in it, but it also highlights, you know, some of the most amazing gravel routes around Marin. And so going out to places that are a little more off off the beaten path. Yeah, absolutely. It's, it's super creative loop that Tom created over there. I hadn't been on some of those trails kind of in I guess Sandra Autonomo and they were awesome. Like it pushed all the buttons, like you have this great, I think all single track bales, arrow, big climbs, like it was on a route that I, and, and support that event. Yeah. It's and there are trails that don't get written very much. There, it's funny cause they're really not that much farther away than everything else, but they seem a little more rugged and some really steep climbs, but it's beautiful. It's rain. We're we normally put together like training routes for, or training rides for the Fondo and the venture revival to get people out and writing some of these things beforehand in a group setting. And obviously we can't do that. So what we're doing instead is doing kind of curated DIY gravel rides. So I just put together a ride that we shared with our member base and it's on our website. We're calling it the dirt ramble, but anybody wants to check it out. And it's, it kind of highlights some of those Sandra animo Ridgeline. Why am I often forgetting the name of where, where it's going out behind the lakes but highlighting a lot of those trails that you don't get written as much and highlighting just like the unique terrain around Marin, because there's so many different ecosystems and so many different habitats and, and you can experience so much in such a Stuart ride. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, just having as a, sort of a city-based rider previously, having those roots and understanding like, Oh, maybe I'll ride the road out to Fairfax and then start hitting the trails. You all of a sudden on your gravel bike create these really interesting loops that you never thought of. Because if you, you know, that's, that's quite a long way if you're riding off-road the entire way from the city, for example. But if you bypass it cause with the efficiency of the gravel bike and just hop into the trails, like there's some great stuff up there. Yeah, totally. And it's, it's, you know, it's easily accessible from so many different locations from the city I used to my parents live in Petaluma, so I I'd ride, you know, out from Petaluma and hit the Belinas Ridge trail. And you have this amazing really hope it's a long day, but it's so worth it to come down and ride these trails. Yeah, definitely. So is your plan this season to go back to cyclocross at the end of the year again, We're, we're kind of making the joke with Eastern Overland that it's like hashtag cyclo mountain gravel season, because everything is now being pushed into one. So right now I'm just looking forward to riding the dirt Fondo and writing adventure revival in September and kind of going from there seeing what what's still happening and seeing what changes I definitely will still race cyclocross. I'm hoping maybe to start a little later this season so I can do some other gravel events as they happen in late September, early October. But, you know, I think at this point, the biggest thing that I want to focus on is connecting back with my community and having fun and racing. You know, obviously I'm competitive, obviously I want to do well on my racing, but I'm kinda like it's secondary right now. Like I miss my community, I miss my friends, I miss my competitors. I want to see them. And I also just want to have fun. And it's kind of weird because I'm still training, hoping everything happens and, you know, putting in the hours and putting in the miles and really trying to find to the engine. But I also am trying to balance that with just having a good time on the bike and seeking the ventures that are really important to me. Yeah. Well, I think that's the dream for all of us. It's just to have something back on the calendar that we all get our municipalities approving us getting together and enjoying that gravel community. Cause I think the important thing to remember for everybody listening is it's still there. If anything, there's more pent up demand and love and desire to get back together as a community, as you just said. So we'll get through this together. Yeah. I think, I think just staying hopeful right now is the biggest thing. And knowing, you know, that bikes aren't canceled, like you can get out and ride, you know, like I said MCDC is putting on our kind of own challenges. There's a lot of other challenges out there, although I'm biased towards the challenges that I'm creating. So I would, I would encourage you to check them out on our website. But you know, we can stay connected in different ways. I started twisting a little bit more to stay connected with people. But I think that's the biggest thing is staying connected, staying hopeful and hoping things work out soon. Absolutely. I think that's a good note to end on Caroline. I appreciate all the time and the insight about the events. I'll put some links out to Marin County bike coalition so people can find the events we're talking about and I wish you the best of luck and hopefully, I'll see you out there soon. All right. Thank you, Craig.  

A conversation with Tom Boss from the Marin County Bike Coalition announcing the Adventure Revival Event in September. Later we talk to Juan De La Roca about the concept of a gravel destination. Adventure Revival Event Registration  Marin County Bicycle Coalition Website  Explore Las Animas Website (routes and more!)    Automated Transcription. Please forgive all errors. TOM BOSS -- Marin County Bicycle Coalition: All right. Tom, welcome to the show. Yeah, thanks for having me, Craig. Yeah, I always like to start off, Tom by learning a little bit more about your background as a cyclist and how you came to gravel riding. Sure. Um, well at first let me start by saying, um, it's a real pleasure to be on your show. Um, I, yeah, I am generally an early adapter. Uh, when it comes to bikes. I was one of the first in my group together, a full suspension bike first to get a single speed first to go 29 or um, but I was a little late on the gravel, the gravel scene and um, I, I jumped on board, uh, at the end of last year, started to really get interested and I actually discovered your podcast serendipitously about the same time, listen to a lot of your older, I'm your archives and, and it was really nice. It was kind of a roadmap for me as I, as I jumped into gravel and I'm learning quite a bit. So just wanting to give you a shout out and thank you for, for the work you're doing. Thank you. I appreciate the kind words. Okay. Yeah. So I grew up here in Moran and, uh, I was bombing down with my friends, uh, on Mount Tam on a 20 inch BMX bike. Um, when Gary and Joe and Otis, we're inventing mountain biking. We're a few years younger and so, uh, those bikes were too big for us. But, um, I've been pretty much riding Mount Tam on a, on some form of a bicycle since, uh, since the 70s. And I'm really lucked out in finding a job at the Greene County Bicycle Coalition, uh, heading up the off road program. Uh, I get to basically promote and, uh, expand bicycling here in Marin, uh, for myself and for everybody else who, who cherishes this, uh, this wonderful place that we live in and visit and enjoy. So it sounds like an ideal job. You certainly, yeah. I consider a Marin county to be an ideal location to be an off road rider. Yeah, we have, uh, as we point out in our, uh, uh, and many of our correspondence, we have 50% of marines land is open as Parkland open to the public, whether it's Mount Tam or China camp. We've got national parks, the CV shore, and lots of open space. And so it really, uh, provides almost, you know, almost everybody that lives in Moran is a few miles away from, you know, amazing trails and, uh, and beautiful scenery. And, uh, so yeah, it's just, it's part of our, uh, it's part of the quality of life here in Ryan for sure. From your perspective at the Marin county bicycle coalition, when did you start seeing the influence of gravel athletes start take over the trails in Marin? That's a, that's a good question. So we, seven, eight years ago we started another bike ride, the, um, or a bike ride, the MCPC dirt fondant, which is primarily a mountain bike ride from the Marin headlands to the top of Mount Tam and back. And, um, right from the start, um, you know, we get a few emails, hey, is this route, you know, are these trails singlespeed friendly or are these trails, uh, uh, cross bike friendly? So, um, so there's, I think the cross in particular, there's a lot of people coming out to our mountain bike events, riding cross bikes and uh, so you could see, um, you know, first you scratched your head, this doesn't make much sense, but then you saw the bikes, you know, get the, some of the wider spacing so they can put bigger tires. And then we saw from that kind of this, this evolution of gravel. And uh, so yeah, just seems like every, every year we have more and more people showing up on different styles of bikes. And last year on the dirt Fondo, you know, I'd say a third of the people where we're not on mountain bikes Ranita or gravel or across or, or a single speed bike. So, yeah, I, for one, have found that some of the trails in southern Marin, they're just more exciting on the gravel bike because they're not, they weren't pushing the limits of mountain bike technology. Once you had a full suspension bike, you were really kind of overprepared for the headlines, if you will. When you're riding on a lot of fire road trails, all of a sudden you get on a drop bar bike and you know, descending a fire fast fire road in the headlands, uh, could give you a thrill again. Okay. Yeah, it really does. You know, without the suspension and what those skinny or tires you have to pay a little more attention and pick your lines again. I used to, you know, focus on lines and in the last 10 years I, with these, you know, big tires and full suspension bikes, uh, you just, I just kind of point and shoot and uh, and, and the gravel has really kind of, I rediscovered a lot of my favorite trails, um, kind of either remembering how it used to be or discovering a whole new, uh, way of traversing them. Yeah, that's the exact same journey I've been on. Just things that I had written for the last 15, 20 years. All of a sudden felt, knew I'd always loved them and had an affinity for them, but now they're pushing my skills technically and made them new again. Yeah, it's real fun. For sure. I caught wind of this year's upcoming dirt Fondo, which is why I reached out to you originally and I was super excited when the team at Studio Vella mentioned that you hadn't announced it yet, but you guys had a big gravel event planned up your sleeve. So can you introduce that event Tom, and we'll start talking a little bit about it. Yeah, so glinted La. It was actually kind of born a little bit out of, out of, from the dirt Fondo we had, um, Erie Oswald and Vanessa, his wife had been coming out to our dirt Fondo for, for years and a few years ago, um, Erie offered, he said, if you guys ever want to do and Gramble event, let me know, I'd be happy to help you plan one. And, uh, so this year we decided to take them up on the offer and we had a meeting with him and we learned that the nor cal league was also wanting to do and gravel events here in Marine County. And so, uh, it was just a no brainer that, hey, we should just join forces and work together and make one really great day on gravel here in Marin. So what's it called? What's the date and what can we expect? So it's called the adventure revival. And we did a lot of thinking about the name. We talked about calling it a gravel, this or that, and uh, but what we are, what we realized in, in thinking about the name and, and developing this ride that Moran has a little bit of a, uh, a history in, in this, in this style of writing. And it is a matter of fact that the guys that started mountain biking, uh, Joe Breeze and Carrie Fisher, notice guy and Tom Richey, uh, back in the 70s, these guys were actually, they started basically on the road and they discovered they found some early cyclocross tires and started taking those bikes on some of the fire roads back in the 70s. And then from there it really evolved, uh, into Ma, you know, then they found the fat tire bikes and, and, and, and started mountain biking. But, um, so, but there's been kind of a history of gravel or, or adventure cycling, uh, more skinny tire drop were bar writing here in Moran for, for a long time. And in the, in the, in the northern California in general. Um, so we decided that we think of it more as adventure cycling. And so we call it the adventure revival to kind of a little tip of the hat to some of those early rides on Belinas Ridge, uh, and also Tom Richey and, uh, Yost brands. We're doing rides down on the Santa Cruz about the Santa Cruz, uh, up in the mountains above Santa Cruz, uh, back in the 70s. So the adventure revival is the name of our ride. It is on Saturday, September 7th, and it will be a journey, uh, from Fairfax, uh, out into the fire roads, trails and roads of last Moran, uh, before coming back to a big party in downtown Fairfax. That's really exciting. I'm super excited about that. And it also, it's, there's a, there's a nice synergy between the dirt Fondo, which kind of predominantly is around the headlands and this side of Tam to starting something over in Fairfax. It's sort of the far end of my normal riding range. I'm really excited to explore with you guys that part of Marin. So are we starting in downtown Fairfax and where do we go from there? Yeah, we'll be starting at the Fairfax pavilion, which is right, right downtown and we'll be heading west on, uh, Sir Francis Drake for a bit and then we'll be going into the marine county open space. Lands will be riding, uh, up on two. Um, Sandra on my red and, uh, two of the routes. We'll take people on to some of the new trails and the Giacomini open space preserve, which are really grapple, friendly and beautiful. You know, you're immersed in redwood forest. Um, and then, uh, then our, our journey, I'll continue west out towards point raise, uh, along Bolinas Ridge. Uh, one route we'll go down the Lima valley trail, which a lot of people don't know about is a, a beautiful trail in the and the point Reyes national seashore. A lot of, uh, interesting, uh, geography happening down there. And then we'll all join back up and, uh, come back, uh, on the Bolinas Fairfax road, uh, into town or we'll have a nice barbecue and festivities waiting for the writers. No, as soon as it is it a mixture of, of double track fire roads and single track throughout the day. Yeah, it's a pretty even mix. There's a single, you know, we start a little bit on the road, get some single track, uh, up up into the White Hill area, go past the Tamar Rancho trail system. Uh, then we're on fire road for awhile. Then like I mentioned, there's that new, some new trails down in the jockey mini preserve that we'll check out. Uh, we're on the Cross Maroon trail through the Samuel P. Taylor park up jewel trail, which is a really nice, uh, trail a lot of people don't check out. And then you're, then you're on that Bolinas Ridge where it's, it reminds me of the sound of music, those rolling green hills and the cows and the smallest band, the background, really a stunning, um, visually, uh, place to be riding. Um, then then a little bit of road down highway one to get to the five Brook's area and uh, and then on the Lima valley trail. So yeah, really it's, it's, I'd say it's a good mix of road, a fire road end and trail. That's great. And that sounds like a fun mix. Terrain adventure. Did you also mentioned to me that you were able to get access to some pieces of property that are otherwise untouchable by riders? Yeah, we're working on that. This is our first year and we're going to keep it all on public lands. But yes, but we're, we've, we've started some conversations with some of the ranchers out in West Marin and we're hopeful that in future years we'll be able to, uh, to provide some routes that will be a pretty special, uh, places, one in a once in a lifetime chance to check out some of the beautiful land. It's not part of the park system. Nice. And are all the trails that are publicly available, are they available year round to cyclists who want to explore out there? Okay. Yeah. So all of these trails that will be on our, uh, you can go out and check them out on your own. Yeah. Four. Well, at least, yeah. 365 days a year. And it sounds like, let's talk in everybody's favorite subjects, tires, wheels. Um, it sounds like with a mixed terrain route, we may not need something super aggressive as a tire. Yeah. There's there, there's enough, there's enough trail that would have roots and rocks and, uh, depending on the conditions, you know, might be a little slippery that I think, I think you're going to want to have a medium to two big tire, um, just to do avoid, you know, pinch flats or, or sidewall punctures. There's Bolinas Ridge has some, some, uh, big routes that you might hit. And, um, yeah, I know on the road, you know, there, there's, there's a, there are some roads sections, so, uh, but, but yeah, I would, I would recommend, you know, a 30, a 38 to 45 millimeter tire, uh, for this ride. Okay. And Are you characterizing it as more of a sort of grand Fonda ride or is as they're racing element to this event? This is more, it's more fondo style where we're, it's a social event. The, uh, the land managers Samarin don't, uh, embrace bike racing. Uh, so this is not a race. This is a ride. Um, but yeah, it's, it's, uh, personally I think travel is a very conductive of more, you know, it's a very social activity. People, uh, you know, can go at whatever pace they like. Um, they'll certainly be some climbs, like a tool and up brand, all that people might want to, you know, test their, their abilities on. Um, but in the most, for the most part, we're really promoting a very fun event. Have Fun Day, we'll have a lot of, uh, a lot of, uh, good, uh, support out on the station or out on the route with, with some really fun activities like we have. But there's this one very rocky section at the top of a white hill fire road where if you, there's gonna be people out there from, uh, one of our sponsors touched on climbing. If you make that section without dabbing, they're going to, they're going to give you a little prize for the effort. So we have a lot of little things like that plan to make it a fun, fun day for everybody. Nice. And I think you mentioned there was a couple of different distances, is that right? Yeah, we have three routes. Uh, we have, uh, what we call the spicy route, which is the big one. It's 48 miles was 6,000 feet of climbing. Uh, we have the medium route, which is 42 miles with 5,000 feet of climbing. And then for people new to a gravel riding, uh, we still have a punchy 23 miles of 2,500 feet of climate. And on the, on the, uh, 23 mile route, is that something that is suitable for beginners in terms of the type of terrain it is, it is suitable, but there, there's still, like I said, that one section I'd mentioned that rocky section at the, um, at the top of the wave hill fire road. Um, you know, you may have to walk that if you're, if you're new to this sport, but in general, uh, that route would be pretty beginner friendly. Yes. Great. And I just have a general question about putting on an event in Marin county. Is it pretty complicated with the various public land holders to kind of organize a re a ride like this? It is, uh, Craig, we, one of the challenges we have is unlike, you know, places like Lake Tahoe where maybe only have one or two land managers of the National Forest Service or, um, that's who usually is the land manager. Here we have four different entities and you never know whose land are crossing. So this ride we're having to permit, um, from we're permitting through open space, marine county open space. We're from writing from state parks or permitting from MWD the watershed, uh, and also the national parks. So that's all for land managers were having to get, uh, to work with to get the permitting for this, uh, event. And uh, they're all very supportive and uh, encourage bike, uh, bicycling in their parks. Um, but yeah, it does, uh, it is a little harder than it is in some places where maybe you're only dealing with one permit and, and the whole ride isn't one on one person's land. Yeah. I think that's what's great about having them Marin county bicycle coalition involved because you have the integrity and longevity of the organization to bring to bear that these land owners can trust you, that you've got their best interests in mind for sure. And we also give back, for example, this part of the, um, one of the things we offered with the permitting for the national park was that we would commit one day of volunteer work on a trail of their choice either before or after the ride. And, uh, and we also have our, our slow and say hello message that we give to all the writers who really remind them that when they're on our, I bet when they're participating in one to borrow against their ambassadors and bicycling and they really need to, uh, be models of a good, um, trail user and you know, be very courteous and obviously obey all the rules. Yeah. Well, I think that's an important note in a important reminder just for everybody listening to support your local bicycle coalitions because they do a lot of work behind the scenes and it's great when you get to come in front of the scenes and create awesome new events for us to enjoy. Um, Tom, I appreciate you coming on the show and telling us about the event. I'm really excited to myself and explore that part of Marin. We will put information about registration up on the podcast notes, um, and we'll get this out as soon as possible, but if you're listening to this registrations already open for this event, there is a cap this year on the number of athletes that the event can hold. So definitely click the link quickly if you haven't already get your slot because Tom and his team are putting on an amazing event that I think is going to be around for a long time. So Tom, thanks for thanks again for joining us. Yeah, well thank you for having me and I look forward to riding with you in September. Juan De La Roca -- Gravel Destinations Juan, welcome to the show. Thank you Greg, really appreciate being here with you this afternoon. So this is a little bit more of a, it's an interesting segment for us at the gravel ride podcasts. Cause one actually reached out over email with a simple question like many of you do and but it was what makes a gravel destination and are there gravel destinations out there in the world? And it struck a chord with me because I certainly in my life have had places I thought were mountain bike destinations like Moab or crested Butte or whistler up in Canada. And I've certainly had rode destinations like borders on in France at the base of Alp do as we're Tuscany in Italy or May. Orca. And all these things resonated with me. But when he asked the question I just had no idea. Like what is a legitimate gravel destination? So one, thank you for bringing that question up and I'd love to have a discussion with you because you live in a place where you think has the fundamental building blocks to become a gravel destination. Yeah, absolutely. So I, I'm a little bit about my background. So I've been in Colorado now for 25 years within the Denver Boulder area, uh, left Denver in 2015. And, uh, actually thought I was going to be done living in Colorado was in that phase where everybody was kind of moving here. We saw a big jump of population and, and uh, we started to kind of pick my, I pick my head up and looked around and said, hey, maybe there might be another place. But, um, I ended up in Austin, Texas down in central Texas, which was actually a great learning lesson because in a lot of ways, you know, often experience with Denver has been experiencing over the last several years with an influx of population pushing people out more into rural areas. So while spending some time riding my bike in central Texas, I a within town outside of Boston called Fredericksburg. And it got me kind of thinking about, you know, what would this kind of look like in Colorado as things start to, you know, take shape and form. And, uh, ended up coming through the town of Trinidad, which is three hours south of Denver, three hours north of Albuquerque. So it's essentially right between the two of them, uh, right on the [inaudible] a corridor and it's an interesting area of the state in that it was sort of the undiscovered forgotten, made fun of unheard of place to go spend time, uh, area of the state. And as I started to look around, I thought to myself, this might be a place that it's going to keep them some growth and activity moving forward as a state car to becomes more popular. And when I first got here, you know, I'm more of a mountain biker. I knew that the, the mountain biking was not going to be super strong because of just the history of the area, a lot of private property, but also too, there's just wasn't a much of a cycling culture. But even a little bit of time that I've been able to spend here over the last two and a half years, I've been pleasantly surprised about the wealth of opportunities and areas to explore, especially on a bicycle. And a couple of years ago I had been doing some consulting work with the local parks and rec department and this idea of developing a product around gravel sites and really kind of jumped out at me just to kind of also take another step back. I, I come out of the advertising industry, consumer research insights trends. I'm really adept at looking at things that are happening and kind of understanding where things are gonna sort of go from there. And um, so I applied those, does that skillset to developing some cycling opportunities in this region. And, and uh, so recently in this, uh, beginning of this year in 2019, working with the Colorado tourism office with able to be in a position to create a second tourism and campaign for this region, specifically focused on the gravel category. And had you started riding gravel bikes herself at that point? You know, I, you know, I say yes because it's, it's funny, right? Cause the cycling industry, it's always been really good at coming up with new categories and products that, you know, say no, this is like the thing that you want to have or this is the direction you want to go sort of thing. So I feel like raffles and we've kind of been there, but at the same time it's never really had this sort of focus of a genre or a segment of cycling, um, like it has in the last several years. So I mean beyond my, my mouth, I can have a Tory by, uh, cyclecross bike and was, you know, just definitely somebody who likes to explore and in was open to, you know, just going out and riding dirt roads. So it was happening. It was sort of natural. But when I started to see, you know, that gravel was really starting to pick up speed and speed, uh, it was starting to get a lot of popularity and following, then that's when I started saying to myself, you know why? Like this is more than just something that you kind of just do because you just want to have fun and explore. It's actually becoming something a little more serious. That's interesting that you took your sort of professional background, your ability to analyze trends and started to see like, hey, the type of terrain which maybe isn't super technical or accessible as a pure mountain biker in Trinidad combined with this trend of drop bar off road activity happening in the bike industry came together to create an opportunity that you might not otherwise have pursued. Yeah, no, it is it interesting in Trinidad because going back to the mountain biking piece, um, so it turned out it's an interesting place. It's, it's going on or a lot of transition right now. It's a rural town. You said a population of 10,000. It's the largest campus in the largest county in Colorado with a total of 15,000 people all together. Uh, so it really has a lot of open space and little crowd. So the cycling community is fairly small here to begin with. I and the mountain biking, it's going to take some time. We, we've actually had some really cool things happen here in the recent months. Uh, the state of Colorado, along with the city of Trinidad, the Nature Conservancy and the trust republic land. It's actually just purchased a 19,000 plus Acre ranch, three miles south of the town. It actually borders the, yeah, so we're really close to the New Mexico border and the border actually goes through the property itself. And so that's something that's going to happen over the next several years, but it's just going to take a lot of work and resources because you know, building trail is a pretty labor intensive sort of scenario. However, uh, there is also a lot of dirt roads already existing on this property, so it's actually going to be something that's going to fold into the overall offering that the county has. Um, the interesting thing is this here is that we have 1500 miles of county road. Uh, when I looked at that number, I thought to myself, I'm like, you know, I know that that's not unique necessarily, but that I feel like that's pretty distinct. And that's a way of kind of talking about why you could be a destination. Because the reality is, is if there's going of your Rick graveled like destination and has to be in a world sort of setting because it, you know, the urban is constantly under the pressure of development. Rose are being lost, can you subdivisions that are being brought in. And so this idea that, you know, the southeastern portion of the state could possibly become a destination to ride a gravel bike because of the fact of its rural setting and it's dirt roads you can't really appealing. And it was really great because at the same time it was infrastructure was already in place. You know, going back to the mountain biking, you know? Right. It costs money to build trust. You've got to get grants, you've got to get, you know, a local buying from your government and all these things that go along with it. But, uh, with gravel, it's really about using existing resources already in place. And, and southeast Colorado is a place where, I mean, it's remote, it's got back country. Uh, it's got the history, you've got scenery, has got culture. It's got a very dynamic sort of, um, things on the plate and give it some substance and worthy of a meal for, for a cyclist, I get to say, right? Yeah. When I got your email and we had a couple of back and forth, I started thinking about, well what are the things in my mind that made a great cycling destination? And I came up with three things and I, the first one was the obvious, which is great writing, but information about the writing. So the available easy availability of roots. The second thing was a cycling, ambiance and a cycling infrastructure, right? I want to, I want to be able to go to a bike shop and get equipment that I need. I want there to be a vibe in town around cycling, even if it's subtle. And the third thing we're events and the reason why I listed events is cause I've, I felt like having events in the community gave people a taste of it and then would make them want to come back. So I'm curious as you, your vision for building out this community and this destination around Trinidad, of those three building blocks, where are you at with each of them? And do you agree with that at all? No, I think you're absolutely right and, uh, in all of this because, uh, you know, we, we've seen it already happened with the mountain bike destination in the road bike destination and each of those stages is found there. Um, I think for me right now with Trinidad where I see it, I think three of those four already, uh, very strongly in place. The fourth is going to take a little bit more of a, um, bit of time. But I think what's interesting is going, cause, you know, you talk about information, you, the availability of information is so fast now. We are such a digitally forward a society that, uh, whereas you know, 15, even 15, 20 years ago, it took a little bit of time. You know, maybe you read it in a magazine or there was a war, you know, word of mouth has been around forever, but there wasn't this sort of critical mass sort of way of like finding information. You're learning about new things. So, um, going back to the Colorado Tourism Office, uh, initiatives that we started at the start of the year. So the campaign is called explore last time dimensions, that dirt series. And, um, I was able to, to create a website, explore Las animas.com and then also start to populate it with content and, um, go out and, uh, get content that we'll be able to speak to people who may entice people to come here. So that would be through photography and video. Uh, right now I am working on film portions of this so that there isn't any films necessarily yet, but we've definitely gotten about three months worth of photography. Content is being pushed out through Instagram and the Facebook and your social media channels and giving people information, um, about where to go. And, and, and that's something I, I, uh, I really took the time to, to, to look at and figure out how I could, you know, best articulate what the writing opportunities look like and where you could go. And so, uh, I, I essentially created 26 different routes. They vary in length. He, there's a section, there would be 25 or less miles and then there's a 40 year last and then a 50 to 75, 75 plus 100 plus. And in the end I ended up with 16 over 1600 miles worth of routes and they're all now on ride with gps, Strava as well as ride spot that people for bikes. Yeah. Well I thought that was awesome. I put a big check mark versus, uh, around information available with your project because the site is great. The, the roots are divided amongst different lengths and there's great information. So if you were to land in that area, you, you know, you have more miles than you can do in a week easily. Yeah, exactly. You know what, it's funny too because I noticed that a little bit overwhelmed because so many people know little about Trinidad in general. It's, it's super interesting. The printed ad was probably one of the first, uh, communities, families in the state of Colorado. I believe it was 1862. Uh, it was where the Santa Fe trail came through. So we have, uh, uh, you know, this idea of traffic coming through here and then the railroad came through. And then of course the interstate though though we have this like traveler mentality, but it also had a lack of people over, especially over the last 15 years, who would actually get off the highway and look at what was here. And I think that that's what's the beauty of bicycles and how popular they are and, and, uh, how appealing they are to people. Just say it pushes people into places that they didn't think they would go into. So, you know, the, the mindset from the, from the Gecko was this was all about discovery and exploring. And so could I added that is where the great writing comes out of, right? Because the people who, you know, go down that road, they tend to have experiences and those experiences become great memories and those great memories become the things that they talk about with other people. So, uh, that's why I think for great writing pieces that we have that it's just a lot of people don't know about it necessarily. But with that information, we're really going to highlight that and, and, uh, give people a chance to get out and experience it for themselves. And then lastly, you were dot. You were talking about events do it. I think, um, we've been fortunate in that there actually has been an event that's been going on here for about five years now. It's called the Pony Express one 16. Uh, this year we actually had them, the largest field that takes place in mid May. Uh, it was started by a gentleman named Phyllis for, uh, Schweitzer, who he runs a copy off to be saddles. And then, uh, the interesting thing with him was that he was a longtime competitor in the Lego 100 as well as the Berkey Byner, uh, a cross country ski race here in Minnesota for a number of years. She's done a ton of events and he came down here on his own in 2012 and started scoping out the area and realize that he could, uh, create a, uh, a course that would be, you know, really in line with what was happening with gravel. So he's actually got a hundred mile force. It's about seven miles outside, starts an n seven miles outside of town. And uh, just last, uh, the last one, we had some really great feedback from people because it was for many of them who was their first time. So I think you're really are spot on with the events because the events are what introduce people to an area. Is there anything, you know, sometimes it's just a, you know, a friendly note from a friend and be like, Hey, let's go to this place. Let's go check this out. You know, I've never there, but let's just go see what it's all about. And you know, they come and then all of a sudden it kind of spirals from there because they start talking to other people and then we go back to the social media police peace and critical mass starts to accumulate. Yeah. Then I think that the hardest piece to kind of get to come together in a small rural community is that kind of cycling on Beyonce and infrastructure, but that, I think it comes with opportunity. Right? You know, you look at the stories around Emporia, Kansas who had dirty Kanza and how, you know, it's clear that in the bars in the, obviously in the bike shops, but the cafes, they've just started to embrace the fact that cycling is a big part of the identity of that community and it's developed this kind of world worldwide reputation for being a cycling hub. And I, and I think you know, business owners are not going to get there by themselves unless they happen to be a cyclist. But the sheer opportunity of meeting your customers where they're at, I think is where a rural community like Trinidad may see an opportunity and you'll start to see some of those cycling elements and fused in cafes and bars and different elements. Yeah, absolutely. I need at this point, I, it feels like cycling general are essentially a key ingredient in the blueprint of the economic development, revitalization of town. You know, I, I, you know, it takes to start seeing bike lanes, you start seeing signage, you start seeing people on bikes and it really starts to dovetail into this activity that happens in a community that is both positive and economically beneficial. And so, uh, you know, right now the state of Colorado in general is, is very much focused on addressing the urban rural divide. And, uh, the cycling pieces is a big piece of it because it, it brings something fresh. It brings, you know, like I say, activity in a way where it inspires people to either get out on a bicycle or maybe start a business and, and, and cater to those people. So yeah, it's going to be interesting. We do have one bike shop in town's been here for a really long time. It's called ultimate sports, uh, in nutrition. And um, you know, they're, they're the only shop here but this is definitely a tower you could virtually see, you know, several bike shops. I mean you can go to a little town like saliva, which is three hours, two and a half, three hours away from us. Uh, definitely more known for it's mountain biking, but you know, that's account or it's smaller than Trinidad, 6,000, but they have a seven bike shops. You know, that's pretty impressive. Yeah. Well this is really interesting discussion. One I, I really truly appreciate you reaching out to me and kind of putting it in my mind cause I do think it's very interesting for our listeners to think about and for the listeners out there, let me know, Ping me if you think your neck of the woods is a gravel destination and let us know if kind of the criteria that we laid out make sense. So I'll put the link to the website in the show notes so everybody can check it out. It definitely sounds like a pretty exciting region. And like I said on the website, there's plenty of rides, just spoonfed Tisa if you're within driving distance, definitely put it on your summer tour. And if it's a flight away, maybe look at the pony express one 60 as an event to be the cornerstone of your trip. But get out there and check out Trinidad and let, uh, let one know what you think. Yeah. I encourage everyone to come and check this place out because I think it's one of those places where right now everything that you wouldn't think it would be, but you want because you're on a bravo. It's got all the things that you want to, you know, find and, and see on a ride, you know, from wildlife to scenery, uh, to just, you know, history, you know, history is the big thing. I think that really distinctly puts us in a, in a different sort of place because a history, something that you know, uh, you see and you feel when you're, when you're around it. So that's the beauty of it. Well, that's super exciting. Thanks for the timeline. Okay. Thank you, Craig. I appreciate it.

Roadtrips can be rough on the tummy; how do frequent travelers cope?  Gail and Piper discuss their recent drive and go head-to-head about backpacks. Its time for #luggagewars   Time Stamped Show Notes: 0:34 – Intro 1:06 - Piper and Gail's road-trip together 2:16 - "Know where your towel is."  -Douglas Adams 2:26 - What to have with you on a road trip; especially when traveling with someone like Piper who has a delicate tummy (towels, wetones, and plastic baggies) 2:57 - How to prep for a road trip (bubbles, ginger chews, and child's Dramamine) 3:47 - The beautiful in appearance and smelling California coast (horsehair, licorice, and redwoods) - especially near Samuel P. Taylor State Park 4:59 - Main Topic -> The Backpack Sasquatch 5:13 - Gail's "ism" - and why she loathes backpack travelers (she gets "beaned by backpacks") 6:18 - Piper is a backpack aficionado - and so the feud begins 7:27 - Brand loyalty to -> Tumi backpacks 9:16 - Backpack security; beware the pickpockets in tourist spots and crowded transit places 10:18 - Gail admits to being a recovering backpack user 10:55 - Backpack optimization -> keeping valuables hidden deep within (past the snacks and the emergency wipes) 12:57 - Gadgets!     13:14 -> the backpack Gail actually likes (its collapsible!)     14:44 -> Piper's preferred ballistic nylon Tumi backpack 16:15 - The Jackie and Laurie Podcast  16:37 - Gail's exacting standards for baggage selection (color of interior vs interior -> the inside should be light colored, thereby making it easier to your stuffs) 17:26 – Outro and thanks to:             John Anealio for his song Steampunk Girl   Safe travels and thanks for listening! Please subscribe and look for new episodes every Monday.