Podcasts about national forest service

What is getting ready to happen in the Daniel Boone National Forest?!?!? Discover how prescribed burns are crucial for maintaining forest health and reducing wildfire risks. We explore the strategies used by the National Forest Service and focus on areas like Dania Boone National Forest and River Gorge to help preserve our natural landscapes. We also introduce the backpacking March Madness Bracket for trail runners. #WildfirePrevention #ForestManagement #PrescribedBurns #NationalForestService #EnvironmentalProtection #FireSafety #CommunityAwareness #DaniaBoone #RiverGorge #WildlifeHabitatCheck out the Skyline 30 Fastpack from Outdoor Vitals, ON SALE NOW!!! https://alnk.to/1N3uRV5

First drafted in Everglades National Park, after a week of mesmerizing nature experiences.Paddling a designated mangrove trail, I cringe as our inflatable kayak rubs the bottom of the pond. “We're stirring up the mud,” I worry aloud. “How many organisms call this mud home?” Sean shakes his head.We turn around shortly after. By this point we've already seen five alligators (one swimming parallel to us, disquieting agility on full display) and a dozen birds and too many fish to count. I'm in awe that this has been our Monday morning activity.I'm also wondering if it should have been.So often close creature encounters fill us with wonder—they allow us to more fully appreciate our fellow animals. But they are also, so often, one sided. What does the cardinal get from me peering closely except a modicum of discomfort? The Florida tree snails are dormant for the winter so my photography (in theory) doesn't stir their slumber, but still—I am here, in their world, leaning in. And I am clumsy and species-centric and unable to coexist without inadvertent harm.“Oh no, you scared him,” Sean said of the small toad I tried so carefully to step around on yesterday's trail. “Shoot, she ran away,” I echoed about the anole I paused too long to observe.How much of these reactions is normal? Creatures move toward and away from each other all the time. Perhaps I am not adding to their stress (the alligators certainly seem unbothered by my presence in their swamp); perhaps it's self-aggrandizing to think so. But perhaps I am. Perhaps I am layering harm upon small harm, weaving fear deeper into their nervous systems, making their already fraught existence harder, all out of a desire to love them.Love can hurt. Especially when it comes from a person.Little Me developed so much respect for the natural world by engaging with the natural world. That's the justification for practices—some worse than others, certainly—at organizations from SeaWorld to the tiny elephant sanctuary I called home after graduating college. Where do we draw the line? On our guided night hike in the Everglades, I was thrilled to see a nightjar illuminated by the ranger's flashlight—but guilt pinged within me, too, at the creature's small form huddled in the beam. Would we, me and Sean and five middle-aged couples, have felt less inspired if we hadn't gotten to see up close? Would the bird have felt less scared?Whose experience is more important, and do they have to interfere with each other, and how can we ever understand costs and benefits?These questions are top of mind thanks in part to Nerdy About Nature's recent post on whether outdoor recreation is a form of resource extraction. He thinks it is, and I largely agree. I also agree with the article's top comment: “outdoor recreation is a gateway to caring about the planet,” writes Nick Costelloe. “The more people engage with natural spaces, the more they'll care about them—and the more willing they'll be to advocate for climate solutions.”I'm just not sure what, exactly, ethical engagement with nature spaces ought to look like.This past fall we drove up a steep, bumpy road to the most beautiful dispersed campsite we've ever seen overlooking the Great Tetons. We carefully followed every National Forest Service guideline. No campfires. Don't stay more than five nights. Drive on previously used roads. Pack in what you pack out; leave no trace.I grinned almost every minute we were there. I threw wide my arms and teared up at the sunrise and leashed Scout the second we saw another animal or person. But afterward, despite being a perfect stickler for the rules, I still had to ask: Is it truly possible to leave no trace?One morning a fox trotted along the edge of our site. They paused, head raised, before darting away down the mountain. Neither we nor our dog pursued this breathtaking creature—but the canid knew, unmistakably, that we were there. Every living thing nearby knew we were there. How much of my own joy (and make no mistake: I experienced bright, bursting, overwhelming joy) is worth native flora and fauna's discomfort? How much do NFS restrictions, even when meticulously observed, actually mitigate human impact?How much could I love that mountain—that view, those creatures—if I hadn't breathed their same air?I don't know. It's easy to preach platitudes about respecting the environment. (Pick up trash, be bear aware, don't bend the rules, do what the organizations in charge tell you to.) It's harder to trust that these actions are good enough. And everything is exacerbated by the crisis facing American public lands under our current administration, worsening, it seems, by the day: staffing cuts, hiring freezes, harrowing sound bites to “drill, baby, drill”.Never has holding great wonder—the kind that inspires us to care, that doesn't allow us not to give a damn—about natural spaces been more important. Never has asking how we skew the ratio toward much more awe than harm. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.pawsandreflect.blog/subscribe

0:14Good morning, good morning, good afternoon.0:15How are you doing out there in the world?0:18And well, this is a revamp of prepare responder covers program we put on last two, oh, guess two years ago, right, We started with it.0:29I'm looking into all different aspects of what it is to respond to large scale emergencies and not just Emergency Management. Still, we're looking at law, fire, EMS, private industry, public side of things.0:47It's a broad brush.0:49And so I'm excited.0:51And so Todd and I, Todd Manzat is the 2 Todd's here.0:55Start talking about it, what it is and, and, and you know, he's got some really great insight.1:01I've known Todd for a while now.1:04And as you can tell here, the Blue Cell is the premier sponsor of this program.1:08And so I want to thank Todd for that.1:10And Todd, welcome.1:11Welcome to our show, I guess, for lack of better term.1:14Hey, well, thanks, thanks for the welcome.1:16And, you know, it was, it was kind of funny as we were kind of batting this around at the end of last year and, you know, here we are now getting ready to kind of jump right into it.1:29But certainly the world's events have helped us to have at least some stuff to talk about in the last 30 days.1:38It feels like it's April already.1:40And I know we'll get into a little bit of that.1:42But thanks for having me.1:43I'm glad to be part of it.1:46I think this is the longest January I've ever lived, Right?1:53Well, it's, you know, in some ways we're thinking back a little bit to, you know, what's going on.1:58I was in New Orleans this week and the events of New Year's Eve are in the distant past when they're worried about the Super Bowl.2:06They had a snowstorm and they had a a Sugar Bowl.2:09And it's, it's really interesting that the tempo right now is as real as it gets with regards to, you know, what we are going to be talking about here, you know, interested about that.2:22It's like, you know, obviously the, the events of January 1st with both New Orleans and Vegas, how quickly it came out of, out of the news cycle because you know, fires happened in, in, in California, you know, and that kept us hopping over here.2:40You know, obviously you guys all know that I live in, well, maybe not everybody, but I, I live in Southern California.2:46And so those fires directly impacted my area, not necessarily where I live, but close enough to where I have friends that lost homes and stuff in the fire.2:57So, I mean, and then then we got rain right after that, which is causing problems.3:03And then there's snow storms in in Louisiana in the South that's causing problems there.3:07And we're still not recovering from Hurricane Helene, You know, And then in the midst of all this, we get a new presidential administration, which is definitely moving fast, you know, And yeah, so are, are we going to be able to take your breath?3:28Well, you know, I don't know that we have a choice, right?3:30It's that kind of race.3:32And, you know, being as ready as we can be in different places, that's kind of part of it.3:38So that the folks who are sprinting as fast as they can can be relieved.3:41And one of the things that was interesting when I was in, in Louisiana this past week, they were talking about barring snow plows from another state.3:49Who, who does know how to do that, you know, pretty interestingly.3:52And then obviously, unfortunately, the events in DC with the, with the plane crash as the, you know, the most recent thing, another really, you know, significant type of event and response.4:09Just hearing, you know, some of the press conference stuff where they're talking about, you know, the things that, you know, I teach all the time, Unified command 300 responders out there.4:21Got to replace those responders.4:23Got a lot going on, got a lot of media, right.4:26All those aspects of something that makes any kind of response a little more complex.4:34Definitely it's going to be a a fun filled year of topics if we stay at this at this pace for sure.4:44Yeah, I want to talk about that plane crash here for forbid, not not about the plane crunch itself, but about how as a those of us in the field, you know, I know a whole bunch of people that are traveling at any given time.5:01I mean, you're one of them, a couple of friends down in Texas.5:05You have a friend of mine who carries Fronza, who's the president of IEM, who she was travelling during this time.5:13And I went to my, my, my click box of, oh, who do I need?5:17Who do I need to call to see if they're impacted by this?5:20And even if it's something as far away as DC, you know, and now you're going, oh, crap.5:25I mean, I called you or at least reached out to you to see if you know if you're travelling yet.5:30So you don't.5:30It's just this is amazing, like how small of a world we truly are when it comes to that.5:36And then I have friends that work and you do too, Todd, you know, that work in the capital that a part of Metro and and and DC fire and Fairfax fire.5:46And you know, you, you see this happening.5:48You're going, these are people who you know closely that are already impacted by this event, let alone the tragedy of the those lives that were lost, you know, in this tragic accident.6:01And I think that's part of the thing with what we do here between you and myself and, and the, and the organizations that, you know, we do touch every aspect of, of the United States and at some point global when it comes to Emergency Management, We're going to be able to bring those, that perspective to, to the this conversation.6:24Yeah.6:24I think the, the other thing that kind of jumped out at me was, you know, trying to think back through the history and, and certainly some of the legacy media folks were talking about the last time we had a crash and how long ago it was.6:38And in fact, I don't know if you picked up on it.6:41That last one was Buffalo and obviously Buffalo, NY.6:46You've got connections to that place, right?6:48Yeah, yeah, right.6:52And I'm headed to Binghamton, NY next Friday, which is not that far down the road.6:57So it's, you know, to bring it somewhat full circle, preparedness, response and recovery are interconnected.7:05All these disciplines are interconnected.7:09How we do things, we're trying to make them as interconnected, you know, as possible.7:17And I think it's going to be the right conversation, especially when we bring some doctrinal things in and and talking about some specific topics and then trying to overlay it to things that are really happening.7:31I think that's going to be one of the unique things about the conversation, hopefully, as we move the show forward.7:38Yeah, absolutely.7:39And I think the other thing too, Todd, that you know, you and I have some really deep conversations, you know, when it comes to the state of Emergency Management, the state of disaster response, you know, where where we need to go and how to get there.7:57And you know, the fact that we have a kind of book in this thing here, but we have progressive states that look at Emergency Management and disaster response and disaster preparedness and planning as holistic, right?8:13So that means like fire, police, EMS, public works, right, that we always forget, you know, public health, they're all involved in the conversation.8:23And then you have some States and somewhere areas that are myopic, right?8:27And they're very much silos on everything they they do.8:30I think some of the conversation that we're going to have here is hopefully to break down those silos and and be able to have those full conversations that we are all hazards approach to everything that we look at.8:42And I think that's critical, right?8:45And I think also in the, you know, our show concept, and I think it's important to share, you know, in this first episode, it won't just be me and you hanging out with each other.8:55I think our concept of bringing in guests as a, a third element to the show, a third voice, I think will be important.9:04I know you're working on lining up a few.9:06I'm working on lining up a few.9:08It'll be exciting.9:09And, you know, as we move into the coming weeks to get that guest line up out to folks and they can kind of hear a perspective and we'll definitely, you know, be leveraging our relationships.9:21I think to to bring in some strong, strong individuals to give a dynamic focus on, you know, what we're talking about.9:31And Speaking of relationships, I mean, you know, the other good part about this too is Todd, you and I both have some good relationships with some people that can bring really great insight.9:43And so we'll be leveraging those relationships as well to be able to bring you the audience some more insight to what what's happening in, in close to real time as possible.9:53And then of course, you know, my position with IEM allow some conversations to to happen as well.10:01And the Today as an example, well, we, we have to talk a little bit about the, the elephant in the room is what's going on with FEMA.10:10The, the president has set forth his vision on, on making changes.10:16And I don't think there's an emergency manager in the United States right now that doesn't think the Stafford Act needs to be, you know, looked at and, and fixed, right?10:30You know, it's an old act, right?10:33And that FEMA does need to have, you know, to be maybe remodeled a little bit.10:38Sure.10:39I, I definitely don't think it should be destroyed and taken away, But you know, where does it belong and, and, and how does it work?10:47And you know, I've been calling for a few years now.10:49Well, let's say probably over 10 years now that FEMA should be a stand alone agency.10:53And there's, there's cons and pros for both for, for all of this, right?10:59And then today I got to sit down with the acting administrator, Hamilton to hear a little bit about his background and what his, his, you know, his goals are.11:11And the good thing is, is what he's doing right now is listening to the emergency managers out there, meeting with the big groups such as IEM and Nima, big cities, meeting with them to discuss what their needs and goals and, and desires are when it comes to what FEMA is and can be.11:34And I think it's a really important first step.11:37And I, and I commend them for that.11:40Yeah.11:40You know, the, the, the basic rules and kind of organizational leadership are you, you got to, got to figure out what your objectives are, to figure out what your mission is, that type of thing.11:51And, and many times it's a driving factor in where you end up or who you're working for working under and, and how it's supposed to work.12:00I think, you know, that revisit it's, it's not something necessarily that, you know, every time you get a new leader in that you need to do that, But you also can't go 20 or 30 or 40 years and have problems and not do it.12:16And you know, there obviously is a, has been for some time a heartbeat out there saying, Hey, let's let's have it as a, a cabinet member.12:27And my position is whether it's a cabinet member or not, it's still going to come down to the mission, the organization, understanding what the mission is and the talent that's inside the organization.12:40I was in this little teeny organization for a short time called the United States Marine Corps.12:45It's a it's a branch under a department, but everybody knows who we are.12:51Everybody knows what we do because we've got a clear mission.12:53I've had it for 250 years and we're the best at what we do.12:57So in some ways, when you do it well, it doesn't matter that you're not equal to the Department of the Navy and under the Department of the Navy, just as an example.13:09And so I think that's going to be a hard, long conversation and a lot of work that'll have to be done to establish that capability that is not only understood but is respected and is effective in the field.13:27Because that's what's been coming into question is it's effectiveness in the field.13:31Where it sits organizationally probably doesn't have much to do with that.13:35So I think it'll be interesting moving forward.13:39I'm not watching from afar.13:40Certainly have a lot of folks that I'm talking to that are, they're nervous and they're trying to, you know, decipher what's happening and figure it out and where do I fit in?13:51In the end, you got to do the best job that you can and not have that question because you did the best job that could be done.13:58And so I I think that'll be something worth talking about moving forward and, and watching how it kind of transpires.14:08Yeah, absolutely.14:09And, and you're right, I think nervousness, I think is a good word to say.14:13Uncertainty, right?14:14It breeds nervousness a little bit.14:15And I think that's kind of where we're at.14:17And, you know, the current administration's communication style is, is interesting at the at the best or at the worst, I suppose, or whichever we look at it is sometimes I believe, you know, President Trump just floats things out there just to see how people react.14:34And, you know, he's a, he's interesting guy that way.14:40And I think it takes a little bit of time to get used to that style of communication.14:45Whether you agree with it or not.14:46It just says it is what it is, right?14:48You know, not just talking about the yeah, go ahead.14:55I was going to say that.14:56I was just going to judge.15:01We all have to get used to how Manhattan downtown developers do business.15:08That's, that's what we have to get used to.15:10And, and most of us haven't had to deal with that.15:13So it's a, it's a different way that things get done.15:17There's no question.15:19Yeah, absolutely.15:20And like I said, I'm not, I'm not judging it.15:23I'm not putting a value to it.15:24I'm just saying it is what it is.15:25And this is what we have to deal with.15:26You know, I, I think as emergency managers and, and, and guys that are in the field, you know, when we're looking at situations, we have to understand that we don't have time to placate on whether we agree with something or not.15:43We just have to deal with the consequences of what's happening.15:45And, and, and this is where we're at.15:47We have to deal with the consequences that, that, that are happening.15:51And so, you know, that being said, you know, what is the future of Emergency Management when it comes to to what the federal government believes in?16:03That's going to be a long conversation.16:05You know, you know, and we, we have a long history of things changing.16:13And I think we forget this because, you know, we we live in the generation that we're in, right?16:20And we may look back at the previous generations, but we live in where we're at and what we're used to and in that comfort zone.16:28And, you know, I think if we reflect back to when, you know, Franklin Donald Roosevelt created an office that would look at Emergency Management, if you will, without using the terminology.16:39It's where we grew up from, you know, to Truman turned it into really the civil defense of what we think of today, you know, with the Burt the Turtle and all that nuclear stuff that they were dealing with.16:50And and then it kind of got to Jimmy Carter at this point where he turned it into FEMA in 79.16:56And then, of course, the Stafford Act.16:58These are chunks that we didn't live in, right?17:01You know, some I, I, you know, realistically, Todd, you and I, we're from, you know, 70s into the, to the 80s when we were, you know, kids and then we're working.17:12The experience has been this short box.17:14So we look at these boxes that we've lived in and not understanding what the, what the history was and what the changes are.17:20So, so this too, you know, will be a little uncomfortable, but maybe it's uncomfortable that we need to be better.17:28And if we look at it that way and, and as long as we're part of the conversation, that's my only concern is if we start having conversation without us, then what does that mean?17:38Right, right.17:40And I think the, the other thing, just analyzing it a little bit as an outsider looking in, I think what are the alternatives going to be?17:51You know, they're, they're talking about a few alternatives and, and putting pressure or responsibility in other places, like for example, the states.18:00Well, they better do a true analysis of whether that capability is actually there.18:07It sounds great and it probably looks good on paper, but there's going to be a harsh reality that that may not be the answer.18:17And I'm, I'm not going to call out any one state or any 10 states or any 25 states.18:22I'm just going to say there will be serious questions as to whether certain states can take on those previous FEMA responsibilities.18:33And I think it could be a bigger mess and a bigger tragedy if that's not really looked at very, very hard and and very critically in terms of what the capabilities actually are in some of those locations.18:51You know, I think about the fires that we just had here in Los Angeles County and one of the last fires that kicked off as this thing was burning, you know, they were able to put 4000 firefighters onto a fire in in a very short period of time to stop it from burning up the town of Castaic or the village, I guess, right.19:13We got lucky in one aspect that there were already firefighters down here from all over the place that we can, we, we can move those assets over.19:20You know, that's one state.19:23State of California is unique in that aspect of it.19:26I mean, I don't think and, and I'm going to pick on a state and I mean, I can, you know, if, if you fear for that state, please let me, I'm telling you, I don't know the assets.19:35So I'm not not saying that you can't do it.19:37But if you took like Montana, for instance, who has lot of wild land fires, I don't know if they could put in in in 30 minutes of a fire kicking off, Could they put 4000 firefighters on that fire in 30 minutes of a kicking off?19:52Or Colorado for that matter, where you're from, you know, do they have those assets?19:57And, and maybe they do, maybe they don't, but that's the difference between having mutual aid and the federal government coming in to be able to pay for things on the back end than it is to to not right.20:09And and again, maybe Montana and Colorado could put those assets on their.20:13I'm not, I'm not trying to say that you're not on issues as an example, I want to be clear on that.20:19But you know, without federal assistance immediately, can the smaller states handle those large scale disasters as quickly as they can right now?20:34Sure.20:34I yeah, I definitely think that's, you know, that resource management piece is a is a big aspect of it.20:40But let's say you're a week into it, do some of the states have the ability to even manage that?20:50You know, when we start to think about some of the large scale operations and you know, maybe maybe you have an Emergency Management office, full time staff of 20 people that may not have, you know, the ability or the experience of handling, you know, that type of complexity.21:11That is the word that always bothers me.21:16The, the actual complexity.21:18You know, incident command speaks to it quite a bit.21:21We've got a pretty good system for incident command.21:23We've got a pretty good system at the top tier of who manages complex incidents and who's qualified to manage complex incidents.21:32Well, you know, some of that would somewhat come into question if you don't have that guidance from, from FEMA or even some of their support from an IMAP perspective.21:42And then we're that we're going to rely on a state agency of, of 16 people to, to be able to do it.21:51I don't know.21:52I I think it's definitely something that it's going to be a, a bridge we have to cross if that's the direction that we end up going.22:00Yeah, absolutely.22:01And, and, and going back to some of the smaller states.22:03And I'll pick on Maine here for a minute because I was talking, I was talking to one of the guys from Maine and they have volunteer emergency managers, you know, you know, and I'm like, well, and it blew my mind when we had this conversation with him.22:22I'm like, you know, I I never thought about that, that you have a town, you know, a state that's so, you know, sparsely populated in some areas that they just have some dude who's like, all right, I'll, I'll do it for a volunteer.22:34You know, like that means you get your regular day job that you're doing and in the evening, maybe you're, you know, you're doing Emergency Management stuff.22:42Yeah, that kind of that kind of blows my mind a little bit.22:45So, you know, what do we do with states like that that don't even have the ask the the ability to pay for emergency managers, you know, to live in what?22:53I mean, you know, how do we ask?22:56How do we?22:56And the support doesn't necessarily, you know, I want to rewind the minute, the support doesn't necessarily have to be be people on the ground, right?23:05You know, those volunteer emergency managers in Maine may have the the capabilities of doing it as on a volunteer basis because they don't have a lot of disasters that occurred.23:13That's fine.23:13I'm not, I'm not making fun of that position.23:17What I'm saying is they need support and the support that they might get might just be from training, you know, grants to help pay for things because obviously their tax base is going to be lower.23:29So they may need those, those grants from from the federal government to to pay for programs, you know, the send people to EMI or whatever they change their name to, you know, you know, for, for training, you know, the university.23:50Is that the university?23:52FEMA you or, or, you know, used to be FEMA you.23:56yeah.com.23:58Good Lord.23:59Something we're going to, we're going to send us hate mail.24:02Jeff Stearns, Doctor Stearns, We're not making fun of you, man.24:05We're just right.24:12Excuse me, but yeah.24:14I mean, we go into this like, how do we support those smaller states that don't have big budgets?24:20I'm lucky to be from living in California and from New York, which are, you know, have big budgets, but I mean, heck, even New York State, you know, I mean, if you want to take a look at the responders in New York State, there's the majority of the responders in New York State are volunteer.24:41You know, it's one of the states that there are more Volunteer Fire departments in New York State than paid, you know, So what does that look like?24:50And, and what support are they getting from, from the federal government, whether it's through FEMA, the National Forest Service, I help it out with, with different grants and stuff.25:00The you, you know, out here in, in the West Coast, we have BLM, which has firefighting assets and things that could be used.25:09There's a lot of stuff that National Forest Service.25:12There's a lot of stuff that we're relying upon and maybe even too much, right?25:17Maybe that's the back of our mind and and we're relying on those, those assets.25:22You don't compare it to saying let's pretend they don't exist, right?25:26I don't know.25:28That's the stuff I think is making a lot of people nervous about some of the changes that are going on right now of the unknown answers to unknown questions.25:39Yeah.25:41Well, it's going to be interesting.25:42It's going to be good.25:43And we'll kind of start to figure out right the next, next episode and who knows who's going to be in what jobs.25:54So we, we may, we may get a, a really good guess right as we, as we move forward or some of the folks who've previously been in those positions that give us some insight.26:06I think that's really our goal.26:10Absolutely.26:11Well, Todd, you know, we're trying to keep these within that 30 minute window and we're coming up to the last few minutes here on our conversation.26:22Is there anything that you'd like to say to the listeners out there that are coming back and, and how do we, you know, to the new listeners that might be just finding us?26:32I say, you know, TuneIn and we definitely will keep it interested and keep it moving from that perspective and, and give some feel reporting too.26:41That's one of the things I know that we've talked about that we want to incorporate here because I think it'll give a little bit different feel to to the conversation.26:52But I think this was a good one to get us started and look forward to talking to you next week.27:00Absolutely, my friend.27:01Looking forward to seeing you next week.27:03It's always, it's always nice to see that big smile right there very often.27:09Right.27:09Yeah.27:11All right, all right, everybody, until next time, you know, stay safe and well, stay hydrated. 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On this week's Sustainability Now!, we bring you to he heart of the woods to join the struggle to protect southern Indiana's Hoosier National Forest from the extractive economy. Your host, Justin Mog, welcomes back to the program Kari Nolan, an herbalist, educator, and therapist and spokesperson for Save The Hoosier National Forest, and Heartwood (https://heartwood.org); and we also have Heartwood's founder, Andy Mahler, who also co-founded the 40-year old organization Protect Our Woods. In 2025, Kari will be moving back into the forest permanently, after 40 years of living there periodically between travels; and the efforts of this small group have been going on for 40 years, among friends who have lived in the forest even longer, some for many generations. This rich and diverse area, and the people working to protect it, exist in deep connection with the air and water quality of our entire Ohio Valley & beyond, globally. The escalation of some National Forest Service practices, designated as a current "Buffalo Springs Restoration Project,” after nearly 30 years of relative peace in the forest include: commercial logging of old growth timber, unwarranted burn cycles (not native forest cycles in this region) and clear-cutting (often without leaving a mother tree in place, leading to no forest regeneration in clear-cut areas); air quality & watershed destruction is also a huge cascading issue for the Louisville & Southern Indiana regions, from these practices. Basically, the group is asking only for cessation of these few practices, as a change in Forest Service management policies, "letting the forest be, and regenerate itself,” to align with what is needed now, in our present era of climate & forest change.

You can donate to support this work at https://heartwood.org/support/donate/ Or send checks to: Protect Our Woods P.O. Box 352 Paoli, Indiana 47454 Heartwood encourages listeners to contact MIke Braun, Indiana's new governor, with a message to protect our public lands by stopping the Buffalo Springs project until an inclusive study of potential significant impacts can be completed through an Environmental Impact Statement (EIS), and a new updated Forest Management plan can be created for the Hoosier National Forest: Mike Braun 200 W Washington St Indianapolis IN 46204 317.232.4567 To send an email, go to http://www.in.gov/gov/ then select "Ask Mike" Governor Braun is aware & listening: https://www.wishtv.com/news/politics/gov-mike-braun-urges-withdrawal-of-buffalo-springs-forest-project/?fbclid=IwY2xjawIUSX1leHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHSsibnCnFuHfk6M3tkcYREB_JVo84ipYn5nKP2Xjp9Ce-eVG9bp8Vk0Ahw_aem_WTT__HSZQ82tyRtAz8wa1w Find updates on this work at: Protect Our Woods Facebook Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/209054591368266/ Heartwood Facebook Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/34815829952 For more, listen to this 2022 podcast with Andy: https://greenrootpodcast.podbean.com/e/exposing-the-buffalo-springs-restoration-project-with-andy-mahler-of-protect-our-woods/ As always, our feature is followed by your community action calendar for the week, so get your calendars out and get ready to take action for sustainability NOW! Sustainability Now! is hosted by Dr. Justin Mog and airs on Forward Radio, 106.5fm, WFMP-LP Louisville, every Monday at 6pm and repeats Tuesdays at 12am and 10am. Find us at http://forwardradio.org The music in this podcast is courtesy of the local band Appalatin and is used by permission. Explore their delightful music at http://appalatin.com

#204: Organic grain farmer Anna Jones-Crabtree shares an emotional glimpse into the real and challenging issues she and her husband Doug face as they try to align their nature-first stewardship practices with the reality of operating in an economic system that favors extractive agriculture. Anna spoke this past September at our Churchtown Dairy event in Hudson, New York,  Real Organic: A World Movement. Anna Jones-Crabtree and her husband Doug own and operate Vilicus Farms in northern Montana where they manage thousands of acres of mixed grains and lentils alongside beneficial plantings for pollinators and other wildlife. She holds a masters degree in engineering and served as the Lead of Sustainable Operations for the National Forest Service. https://vilicusfarms.com/To watch a video version of this podcast with access to the full transcript and links relevant to our conversation, please visit:https://realorganicproject.org/anna-jones-crabtree-at-churchtown-2024-farming-with-natureThe Real Organic Podcast is hosted by Dave Chapman and Linley Dixon, engineered by Brandon StCyr, and edited and produced by Jenny Prince.The Real Organic Project is a farmer-led movement working towards certifying 1,000 farms across the United States this year. Our add-on food label distinguishes soil-grown fruits and vegetables from hydroponically-raised produce, and pasture-raised meat, milk, and eggs from products harvested from animals in horrific confinement (CAFOs - confined animal feeding operations).To find a Real Organic farm near you, please visit:https://www.realorganicproject.org/farmsWe believe that the organic standards, with their focus on soil health, biodiversity, and animal welfare were written as they should be, but that the current lack of enforcement of those standards is jeopardizing the ability for small farms who adhere to the law to stay in business. The lack of enforcement is also jeopardizing the overall health of the customers who support the organic movement; customers who are not getting what they pay for at market but still paying a premium price. And the lack of enforcement is jeopardizing the very cycles (water, air, nutrients) that Earth relies upon to provide us all with a place to live, by pushing extractive, chemical agriculture to the forefront.If you like what you hear and are feeling inspired, we would love for you to join our movement by becoming one of our 1,000  Real Friends:https://www.realorganicproject.org/real-organic-friends/To read our weekly newsletter (which might just be the most forwarded newsletter on the internet!) and get firsthand news about what's happening with organic food, farming and policy, please subscribe here:https://www.realorganicproject.org/email/

Today on THE ROCK FIGHT Colin & Justin kick off the show with the Outdoor Sports Draft where they take turns assembling a roster of their favorite outdoor activities that you get you to vote on! Check out Rock Fight's Instagram & LinkedIn feeds to vote or if you're listening on Spotify you can vote in the Spotify app.Then they run through some of the latest headlines to come out of the outdoor adventure community including seasonal job cuts at the National Forest Service, a climbing mishap on Mt. Whitney and proposed thru hike through Texas.The end the show with their Parting Shots! Colin has it in for 30-somethings while Justin would prefer his sports not be spoiled!Chapters:00:00 - Intro to the Rock Fight02:18 - Outdoor Sports Draft!11:54 - Budget Cuts for the National Forest Service18:16 - Mt. Whitney Climbers Rescued24:47 - Proposed Texas Long-Distance Trail29:00 - The Parting Shot!Hurricane Helene Relief Links:GoFundMe for Bubba O'LearysWestern North Carolina Hurriance Helene Resource GuideEast Tennessee Foundation Relief FundHead to www.rockfight.co and sign up for News From the Front, Rock Fight's weekly newsletter!Please follow and subscribe to THE ROCK FIGHT and give us a 5 star rating and written review wherever you get your podcasts.Listen to and follow Gear & Beer! The newest show on the Rock Fight Podcast Network.Have a question or comment for a future mailbag episode? Send it to myrockfight@gmail.com or send a message on Instagram or Threads.Thanks for listening! THE ROCK FIGHT is a production of Rock Fight, LLC.

Last fall, we opened a brand-new exhibit called Fire! Science & Safety, which invites our guests to explore Casa Del Fuego, Apartment 911 as a fire danger detective, seeking out fire and burn hazards to make their families, pets, and homes safer—both inside the home, as well as outside threats like wildfires.It's been pretty rainy in California lately, so wildfires have largely faded from the headlines. But throughout 2020 and 2021, we heard about one giant catastrophic megafire after another. It seemed like our state was always burning.Ever wonder why California has so many wildfires?There are many factors at play here—climate change, drought, dead trees, longer fire seasons—but we can also learn a lot about what's happening today by looking at our past. We talked to Dr. Jared Dahl Aldern (@JaredDahlAldern), an environmental historian and a fire practitioner, who has a wealth of experience researching the history of fire in California, as well as learning from and working with Indigenous people who use fire to take care of the land. He walked us through some important events in our state's history—from the Gold Rush to the formation of the National Forest Service—that help explain why there's so much fire today.Have a question you've been wondering about? Send an email or voice recording to everwonder@californiasciencecenter.org to tell us what you'd like to hear in future episodes.Follow us on Twitter (@casciencecenter), Instagram (@californiasciencecenter), and Facebook (@californiasciencecenter).Support the showSupport the show

Some of today's top storiesIt's the first day back to school for most students across Kern County... including for the Bakersfield City School District.    As you're waking up to get the kiddos to school, being mindful of street safety could save lives.It's hard to believe but it's already that time of year.     With the kids going back to school, comes safety zones and traffic.    California Highway Patrol wants to warn drivers that 25 mph zones are back. This also means 25 miles per hour for football practices and other activities.     That's definitely something to keep in mind considering that Friday night football will be here again.As students return to school this week, Governor Gavin Newsom is urging districts statewide to ban the use of cell phones in classrooms.     17's Mikhala Armstrong looks at our local policies and has reaction to the governor's request from students.This morning -- the Borel Fire continues to burn in the mountains east of Bakersfield, although the fire is nearly out. Containment still holding at 91-percent, with the fire boundaries now mapped to just over 59-thousand acres.    The National Forest Service says Burned Area Emergency Response teams are working to determine the need for so-called Emergency Stabilization Treatments to prevent further damage to life, property or natural resources.    The fire first ignited three weeks ago...when a car went over the side of the Kern River Canyon, killing the driver.

 Lauren Hersey & Jim Hill start this show by talking about the merch currently available at the Universal Orlando Resort. They also talk about how exactly the Haunted Mansion is coming back online at Disneyland Park Throughout this episode, listeners will learn about: Which new variation of Butterbeer just became available in the Wizarding World of Harry Potter Where was Disney Legend Marc Davis' home located in Los Angeles When did the National Forest Service award Walt Disney Productions the rights to develop a ski resort at Mineral King Who was supposed to have stayed in the Carriage House that's now being built right by the exit to the Disneyland version of The Haunted Mansion How much “The Haunted Mansion” movie that Walt Disney Pictures released last July reportedly cost to make Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It's Glacier Bank's Community Conversations with Mike West from the Flathead National Forest Service! Tune in as we discuss crucial topics including Fire Restrictions Stages 1, 2, & 3, current fire information, evacuation procedures, and much more!

In this newscast: The Little Mermaid Beauty Salon in Douglas closed for good last weekend after 60 years; A researcher with the Pacific Northwest Research Station is recording connections between people and subsistence foods for a new project with the National Forest Service

Tune in to The Good Morning Show with John and Robin as we delve into vital fire prevention and mitigation strategies with Michael West from Flathead National Forest Service. Don't miss this informative episode!

Kaye and her family traveled from to the Pacific Northwest and eventually settled in White Salmon, WA. In order for them to have food on the table and a roof over their head, they had to work hard.   With all those mouths to feed and though at times there wasn't much to go around, they felt blessed because they had each other.Nothing could get in Kay's way.  Nothing stopped her from doing what  she wanted to do or what ever she had to do.  That said, the had to back up her decisions with a supporting argument. She thought things out very carefully and weighed her pros and cons, and then set her mind to it.She loved her son and was never afraid to show it. Bob shares many wonderful stories that exemplify his mother's love. And "she got knocked down a number of times in life, but she always got back up," according to Bob.  Kay was married twice, was excommunicated from the Catholic church after her divorce, got her pilots license while being the only woman in class and became a legal secretary  in her  50's. Bob refers to his mom as "a trailblazer."There are many more wonderful stories of Kay, that Bob  shares with me, on this episode of SHLTMM. More information below regarding  Bob Norris.Website:https://robertwnorris.com/Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/bob.norris.374 "Should Have Listened To My Mother" is an ongoing conversation about mothers and the roles they play in our lives. And my guests answer the question, 'are you who you are today because of, or in spite of, your mother'? You'll be amazed at what the responses are."Should Have Listened To My Mother" would not be possible without the generosity, sincerity and insight from my guests. In getting ready to launch my podcast, so many were willing to give their time and share their personal relationships with their mother.Some of my guests include Baritone Singer Christopheren Nomura, Pulitzer Prize Winning Journalist Tim Wacker, Activist Kim Miller, Freighter Sea Captain Terry Viscount, Film Production Manager Peg Robinson, Professor of Writing Montclair State University Dr. Bridget Brown, Tammy Steckler, attorney and family advocate @CUNY Law; NYC First Responder/NYC Firefighter Mark Heingartner, Child and Adult Special Needs Activist, Maryellen Valyo Cole and Roger Evens, Property Manager in New Jersey and so many more talented and insightful women and men.I've worked in the broadcasting industry for over four decades. I've interviewed so many fascinating people including musicians, celebrities, authors, activists, entrepreneurs, politicians and more.A big thank you goes to Ricky Soto, NYC based Graphic Designer, who created my logo for "Should Have Listened To My Mother".Check out my website for more background information: https://www.jackietantillo.com/Or more demos of what's to come at https://soundcloud.com/jackie-tantilloFind audio versions of the podcast here: https://shltmm.simplecast.com/Spotify Link: https://open.spotify.com/show/60j14qCcks4AP3JUrWrc2MLink to website and show notes: https://shltmm.simplecast.com/ Spotify Link: https://open.spotify.com/show/60j14qCcks4AP3JUrWrc2M Apple Podcasts Facebook:Should have listened to my motherJackie TantilloInstagram:Should have listened to my motherJackietantillo7LinkedIn:Jackie TantilloYOUTUBE:Should have listened to my mother

What a great conversation we had with Chad and Eileen Miles from “The Miles Van Life.” The couple have been traveling in their self-converted van for 18 months, along with their Australian Shepard, Sadie. They run several businesses and share the both the struggles and joys that van life brings them. Cost Did you know living in a van could actually be more expensive than a typically home? We take a deep dive into some of the expenses Chad and Eileen face while on the road. Routine Often, what's not thought about before someone makes this type of a commitment is how their routine will be affected. If you are currently working from home, you have probably set up a morning routine that allows you to get an early start and stay productive. We discussed that although you don't necessarily have to say “goodbye” to your routine, you have to be prepared for some changes. Setting  up and taking down your office everyday takes time, and you may find yourself having to pump out your tanks midway through the day. Places to Stay We discussed how at first, finding places to stay was difficult and how they were frequently paying for campsites. Tune in to see how they have learned to not stress out so much over where they are staying, and how nowadays they mostly stay for free. Chapters 00:00 Introduction 02:00 What do you do for work? 06:00 What is a typical day or week look like? 08:00 How is your work routine affected by working out of a van? 11:30 How has Starlink worked for you? 14:15 How long did it take you to travel once you got the idea? 17:00 Was van life always the plan? 18:30 What was the van build process like? 23:30 What are your biggest travel frustrations? 27:15 What do you love most about your travel lifestyle? 29:15 What does a weekly or monthly budget look like? 32:00 How much does Starlink cost? 33:15 What is it like traveling with a dog?  34:45 Is van life sustainable and how long do you plan on continuing? 36:00 What has been your coolest travel experience? 37:30 What have you learned you need and don't need while traveling? 41:00 How do you find places to sleep? 43:30 What is an actionable step someone could start doing now? Chad and Eileen on Social: ·        Miles Van Life: https://www.instagram.com/themilesvanlife/ ·        Eileen's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/eileenrosemiles/ ·        Eileen's Website: https://www.eileenrose.me/ ·        Eileen's Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-inward-journey/id1666397129 ·        Chad's IG: https://www.instagram.com/chadmmiles/ ·        Chad's Podcast: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2228949/share Links ·        Insight Timer Meditation: https://insighttimer.com/ ·        Kindle: https://amzn.to/49RxkAV ·        National Park Pet Policies: https://www.nps.gov/subjects/pets/visit.htm We may earn commission from products purchases on this page   Sleeping ·        iOverlander: https://www.ioverlander.com/ ·        Google Maps: https://www.google.com/maps   Past Episode ·        Linneas Episode #9: https://atravelpath.com/solo-female-van-life/   YouTube Channels Referenced: ·        Living Big in a Tiny House: https://www.youtube.com/@livingbig ·        Chris and Sarah: https://www.youtube.com/@chrisandsara ·        Sarah and Alex James: https://www.youtube.com/@SaraandAlexJames ·        Mathers on the Map: https://www.youtube.com/@MathersOnTheMap ·        Linnea and Akela: https://www.youtube.com/@Linneaandakela     Most Popular Blogs: ·        Most Popular Travel Hacks: https://atravelpath.com/money-saving-travel-tips/ ·        Travel Gear: https://atravelpath.com/travel-gear/ ·        How to Budget For Gas on a Road Trip: https://atravelpath.com/how-to-budget-for-gas-for-a-road-trip/ ·        Our Favorite RV Upgrades: https://atravelpath.com/rv-upgrades/ ·        How Much We Made Renting Our RV: https://atravelpath.com/renting-camper-van/ ·        Never Run Out of Gas on a Road Trip: https://atravelpath.com/road-trip-tip/   *All content from atravelpath.com, including but not limited to The Travel Path Podcast and social media platforms, is designed to share general information. We are not experts and the information is not designed to serve as legal, financial, or tax advice. Always do your own research and due diligence before making a decision.   Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/sky-toes/gently-comes-tomorrow License code: JNNG98EA42W634JP Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/abbynoise/rocky-mountains     Transcript Host: Chad and Eileen, welcome to the Travel Path Podcast.   Guest: Hey, thanks for having us. Hi, so happy to be here.   Host: Yeah, so we know you on Instagram as the MilesVanLife. You travel with your dog Sadie. You've been to 47 states, which is a heck of a lot more than Hope and I have been to. Got a few businesses between teaching meditation, marketing consulting, and hosting a podcast, which I know is no small feat. So, a lot to uncover here. Why don't we first just start by having you share a little about yourselves?   Guest: Yeah, so we're Eileen and Chad. We have been living in our van on the road for about 18 months full-time. We completed our van about two years ago, and so we've spent about 18 months traveling, and now we've spent five months back here in Michigan. As you said, we have a 50-pound Australian Shepherd, her name is Sadie, and she lives in the van with us as we travel. And yeah, we're just very passionate about this lifestyle, so we're excited to dig into it more with both of you.   Host: Currently, you're working as you have your own businesses, right? Marketing consulting and then teaching meditation. How did you get started in that?   Guest: I started leading meditations when the pandemic hit, and before we hit the road, I got into teaching meditation on Insight Timer. And then from there, I did actually, before we hit the road, I did take on a part-time job because we needed some consistent income. And then it wasn't until about, actually, I was just looking at this, it wasn't until about September last year, I decided to, well, the year before that, I forget that it's a new year. It wasn't until about September 2022 when I decided to dive in fully and lead meditation from the road and lead meditation teacher trainings from the road too. And yeah, it's been super fulfilling and really hard at some points, but it's been really, really exciting and something that Chad and I work on together too. And for me, I do marketing consulting work. I had a full-time job leading a small marketing team at a financial firm in the Metro Detroit area before we were living in the van. And so part of the process of transitioning into van life was me leaving that job, going and starting my own business, and that's what I run today.   Host: Very cool. So between the travel and the remote work, which came first? Did you have this dream and this desire to hit the road and then work towards finding remote jobs? Or were you stuck with remote jobs and realized you could travel?   Guest: It was more so we had full-time jobs that required us to be in a certain location, and it was during the pandemic that it really opened up our eyes to the idea of remote work. When the pandemic hit, we went and we did some traveling, and we spent some time up in Northern Michigan, and we were working remotely for three or four months. And I think that's really when it got our gears turning, and we started thinking, could we make this more of a permanent lifestyle? So then that started our gears in the whole process of starting to make decisions and think about all right, well, both of our jobs required us to be in the office and were likely going to require us to go back into the office. And so we had to start thinking about how we were going to create work that was going to allow us to live this remote lifestyle. So we had to adapt and make some changes in order to make this a reality.   Host: Nice. And Eileen, you had mentioned when you first started out, you had picked up a side job remotely to help fund your travels. How were you able to get that job?   Guest: That was just something I looked for. I spent quite a few months kind of looking online and figuring out what felt in alignment. And they were open to me working remotely. And then it just didn't work out, unfortunately. And I also see it as a sign of, okay, you need to dive in fully and lead meditations and do what you really, really love. So it's all worked out.   Host: Was that like a meditation-related job, or did you find it through Upwork doing like blogging, that type of stuff?   Guest: No, it was a totally different job, just working for a mental health company, which I did love because I was able to work remote, of course. And then I was a part of a community and a team, which felt really good because I loved going to work. It was almost social for me too. And so then when the pandemic hit, it was hard. And even now, entrepreneurship is lonely, but I find ways to feel a part of a team. But yeah, it ended up working out.   Host: That's great. So between the three businesses you have going on right now, right? So between those three hats you're wearing, what does your typical day-to-day or week look like?   Guest: Yeah, I mean, I think a week like ours, although it can vary, a lot of times we have evening meetings that we have, or we will be leading a meditation in the evening. We also do a meditation teacher training. A lot of times, those are in the evening. So aside from those things, I would say we still work a relatively normal 9-to-5 type schedule with the clients that we work with and some of the different projects that we're on or meetings that we have are typically scheduled during the workday. So a lot of times, Monday to Friday, we are a little bit less mobile. We're camped out somewhere, whether that's by a city or if we're positioned somewhere and we've got our Starlink. We're not really moving as much during the week. We are, for the most part, working in a fairly typical schedule. And then the weekends are a time where we really go unplug and explore and take advantage of the fact that we don't have people maybe calling or emailing us. So it looks different in the van, of course. There's always unique elements to the work. There's always things that you don't necessarily plan for. And as we like to say, things tend to just kind of go slower or take longer than you think. But for the most part, our weeks resemble a typical workweek.   Host: I feel like that's the big distinction between people who are van-lifing like vacationing for extended road trips versus people who are working full-time. Like when we did our trip a couple of years ago, it was a two-month vacation. We went, we saw, we were driving like 500 miles a day, going to different destinations. But now this next trip we're going to be taking is going to be much similar to what you guys were explaining, where we're going to be working probably in the same location for like six, seven days and just working all day and then making those smaller movements. You know, perfectly down south, it's freezing right now in Connecticut. But one question I wanted to ask was, and this is probably getting a little bit selfish because this is what we're going to be doing, but how much time would you say, if you're working remotely at home, a physical Sticks and Bricks house, versus working remotely in your van, but the van's stationary? How much time does it add to your day between setup and take down and all that?   Guest: Yeah, I mean, it's hard to say, but the one thing I would say for sure is that if you picture being in your home office and if you work remotely and for the most part, let's say between the hours of 8 to 5, you could be sitting at your office getting work done for a majority of that time pretty consistently, you might have small breaks, you might stop for lunch. I have found, we have found that it's when you're traveling full-time in the van, it's hard to get that same, I guess, productivity of work done on a consistent basis because there's constantly things that are going on throughout the day that might need your attention, or you've got to drive somewhere, you've got to move, or you've got to go dump your toilet or fill up on water. There's all these different things that you have to think about and plan for. So I would just say, in general, it is a little bit more challenging to have those long, sort of productive days when you're working in the van because there's just a lot more variables.   Host: Yeah, so it sounds like that routine is something you're giving up.   Guest: Yeah, for sure. Every day is different. And I mean, it is distracting when you're working and it's a beautiful view, and okay, I'm going to go do a workout and then cold plunge and then, oops, it's been a couple of hours, you know? But what's great too is that we can choose when we want to work as well unless we have meetings or calls or trainings to lead. But we can choose that, and then the evening can look like a hike or something. Or we can start our day earlier, and there's just that flexibility that's so, so great.   Host: Yeah, I think it's important to just talk about that too because a lot of people might not realize that. But like right now, we've been working remotely in this house for a couple of months now, and we've developed this routine. And it's, you know, get up, get some work done, go to the gym. And then I'm in here, and I know you have the same routine. So that is something that people might not expect or anticipate if they're working from home now and they want to plan, you know, full-time travel and working in their van, something to definitely consider.   Guest: Yeah, I mean, if you want to live a lifestyle like this where you are traveling full-time, if you live in a van, I don't think it's fair to say you have to completely say goodbye to routine. But you definitely have to become a lot more comfortable living without it because there are so many things that happen, there are so many changes that you're constantly having to navigate that you can bring a little bit of structure into your day, but it's difficult to maintain consistent routine.   Host: Are you taking down and setting up your office every evening?   Guest: Yeah, well, our layout, which we're sitting at right now, has our table and seating area, which we love, and then we convert it into our bed. And so we do that every day in order to enjoy our food here, unless we want to eat outside and everything. And then work at this table. Chad's really excited because he got a table up front with our swivel seat up there. But yeah, and then if we're in the middle of nowhere, we have to set up our Starlink. And so it's definitely a process.   Host: Have you had luck with the Starlink?   Guest: So far, the Starlink has been amazing. We went over a year without it, and, um, I mean, we did just fine. We had one of the little Verizon hotspots, so that was dependent on our cell phone service. When we knew we were going to go to Alaska, it was actually funny. I mean, we were up in the Seattle area and we were about to start the trip to Alaska, and we were panicking because we didn't have one. So, I ended up finding someone in Seattle and buying a used one online. Anyway, we could not have done the trip to Alaska and back without it, so we've really enjoyed having the Starlink. It just gives you the opportunity to go to much more remote areas, and so that's made us, uh, it's allowed us to go off-grid a lot more and stay away from some of the bigger cities like we used to have to hang around. So, it's been really nice.   Host: Have you had luck with it, with Starlink in, like, National Forest areas?   Guest: Well, you might answer this better, but I will. That brings me back to a really frustrating moment when we tried to use it for one of my virtual events and it just wasn't working because, yeah, we were in, yeah, it was a heavily wooded area and I think there was a couple I don't even remember exactly where we were. All I remember is it was very frustrating. Yeah, it wasn't working, but that was probably the one to two times where it didn't work. Otherwise, what would you say? It's definitely not perfect. Yeah, you've got to be set up in a good position. If you're in a heavily wooded area, you're going to have a lot of problems. Typically, you can get really fast internet, but you're probably going to have a lot of outages. And even as we've traveled with it, we have noticed, like, for video calls like this, um, it's pretty common that it's going to drop for a couple of seconds every, like, 5 to 10 minutes. So, it's not perfect for video calls, so you've got to kind of feel out how it works and in what situations it doesn't work as well. So, it's not perfect, but it does unlock a lot of unique opportunities that you couldn't have without it.   Host: Yeah, yeah, we're kind of rolling the dice on this next trip. We're not going to get it quite yet. We're going to see because we've heard the consensus on the podcast so far has been the T-Mobile HotSpot, but we are planning on going a little bit more remotely and, I've been asking, I haven't gotten an answer. I think yours is the best answer so far about how it works in the National Forest because the national forests are where they're remote, they're usually free camping, but there's forest and that's when the Starling tends to not work when it's shaded although there are areas where it's a little bit more thin you can get away with it, but yeah, we're thinking of just starting with T-Mobile and then seeing if we need to invest in Starlink. I think it's more East Coast from what we've heard is better service where we're going to be and then out west is where you can really start losing your data in your service.   Guest: For sure.   Host: So, from, I guess backtracking a little bit from when you guys thought about taking this trip when it first became, when it first came to your minds and you wanted to take whether an 18-month or just start full-time travel until the day you were actually able to do it, how long was that time frame?   Guest: I was kind of the first one who was interested in this whole van life thing, and that probably, that interest started like 5 years before we ever decided to actually hit the road. And it was one of those things where I followed some people on Instagram, I just thought it was really cool, I liked traveling, I had been on some road trips with my family and with some of my friends, and you know just kind of got the gears turning and made me think like I feel like this would be really fun. And then life happens, you know, we're young, we're graduating college, we're starting our careers, and so it just never really felt like there was a good time to pursue a lifestyle like this. And so then as we said when the pandemic happened we started working remotely, I think that really got us interested again in this lifestyle, and throughout the whole entire process it was probably, I would say 18 months to two years before we actually hit the road that we started to get really serious about it and eventually had to just essentially plant the flag in the calendar and say our goal was by January of 2022 we were going to hit the road and we missed that by a few months, we hit the road in April but it's one of those things where there's never a convenient time to uproot your entire life and go live in a van and travel full-time so I think eventually just came down to the point where we had to just pick a date and figure it out.   Host: I think it's smart and it's there's power in setting a date to April 2022 we had the same thing we wanted to take this trip before my 30th birthday and there's definitely power in whether you're writing it down or just you make a deal and make this goal together it just makes you want to work towards it that much more. How about you Eileen, did you have that same vision for that long or did you take a little bit of convincing?   Guest: I'm easily convinced, I mean, you know, as cheesy as it sounds I'm in love with Chad so wherever he goes I go. But I mean we started doing some traveling to tiny houses and we're like oh yeah we could do this we can live in a small space and it was super fun and my family growing up we didn't travel a ton and his did and so yeah I think he sparked within me something that was within me, the travel bug and I was easily convinced honestly.   Host: Very cool. So over those 18 months, did you have any other means like were you thinking of doing a travel trailer, buying a different vehicle or was it always van life?   Guest: Well, it actually started as, like, originally we were just kind of interested in the idea of living small and so at first we thought we were going to do a tiny house of some sort and maybe it was going to be more stationary and then we're like well but I think we actually want to have the mobility and we want to be able to travel and so then we started thinking about a tiny house maybe that was on a trailer. And as we went through the whole process there was a period in time where we were looking at buying an RV something that was a little bit bigger we just kind of kept going through the process and going to the process and factoring in all the costs that were involved with all those routes and all those options and eventually I think the both the cost and some of the flexibility in ability of the van is what ended up appealing to us most but yeah it went through a lot of iterations of what we thought this lifestyle might look like.   Host: Yeah, yeah, sounds like a way a similar path we considered a few different things we looked at like those little small tab trailers, which I was not going to be able to fit in, and then yeah the van, the mobility that's kind of what sold us. We had a 20-year-old 30-foot Wildwood which we thought about briefly taking cross country which I'm glad we did not. I think I'm convinced van life for couples is just the best way to travel, it's mobile, it's really all the space you need and yeah we had a blast doing it.   Guest: That's awesome. I agree, I think I'm glad we chose this van and chose to build it too we were looking at already built out ones and looking at RVs and it just didn't feel right I think we also were up for the challenge of building it out too.   Host: Very cool. So, speaking of that, so over those 18 months, you obviously had a few challenges getting into and transitioning to Van life. What was the build process like?   Guest: That was fun. I actually really liked it. I think he did a lot of it. I chose, you know, a lot of the paint colors and things like that and I learned how to use a drill and all of that. But I mean if there's one thing that any anyone listening needs to hear I feel like it's this, you don't have to be in construction or know what you're doing because I sure didn't when I started building the van. But I think it was a really difficult process but really rewarding. And now, kind of like I said a moment ago, you know, we're up for the challenge of building it and now looking around and feeling proud that we built it and we made it our own it's really rewarding, but I'm sure you have more to say on that. So, we bought our van as an empty cargo van in December of 2021 and it just kind of sat until January and it wasn't until January where we really got serious about our build. So, all in all, the build took us about four, four and a half months which I feel like compared to some other builds was pretty quick and it was because we were working on it almost full-time. I mean I would spend almost the entire day while it was bright out working on the van doing as much as I could and then I would go do some of my work for my clients in the evening or in the morning. And then, I mean Eileen was with me often so we put a lot of time into our build which I think allowed us to get it done a little bit maybe sooner than most but it was a very intensive roller coaster of an experience. Yeah, it was hard.   Host: Yeah, I think that is the record, that's a record on the podcast. I know we've had between like 9 and 13 months I think it's been. We've had three van builds so far. Was so four and a half months was that what you expected how long it would take?   Guest: That's a good question. I guess I think it was about what we had planned for or expected, you know, it's one of those things where you when you start a project like this you just have no idea what it's going to entail if you've never done something similar it's just so hard to imagine all of the pieces and components that go into building a van and all of the unique challenges. So, I think in our minds we were thinking we could probably complete it in less than six months and that was the timeline that we had set and so it also towards the end especially became one of those things where we just started putting more time toward it to try to hit the timeline that we had established it was a lot of work.   Host: So, about four and a half months working basically full-time on it, were there any mistakes you made along the way that could potentially save a listener from some future troubles?   Guest: That's a good question. You know what I would actually say, which is probably not even what you're looking for, is it's okay if your van's not done, you can still go. Like, I think that's actually, in a roundabout way, like a mistake a lot of people do make is they really want it to be perfect and done before they leave, but I'm looking, we still have a little bit of reflection on our door and it's fine and it hasn't ruined our experience, you know? And your van is still... you're able to sleep in it and go see the world. So, um, but I don't know, can you actually think of one? I wish I had something more specific or tactical of, you know, make sure you don't do this. I think Eileen would often give me a hard time because there'd be many days where she would come and I'd be out in the van and I would just be sitting staring at something, and then she'd come back out about two hours later and I would still just be sitting and staring at the same thing. It's true. So, I do think there's taking the time to plan and to think about your layout in general and to think about the systems and the subcomponents, and I spent a lot of time designing things on paper before I actually started building. I think all of that planning and a lot of the strategy work of how the whole thing was going to work, I think that probably lent a hand in allowing us to build more efficiently. All that time spent just kind of sitting and staring at things made it so that there really weren't any major mistakes that we made that really slowed us down. And so I think that was probably a big factor into the timeline that we achieved.   Host: Yeah, no, it sounds like just taking the time to prepare, you've avoided some of those mistakes you might have fallen into. And to your point, Eileen, you guys... it wasn't quite finished, but you guys have been able to, you know, here you are 47 States later versus somebody who was waiting until it was complete and ready to go, they're probably still working on it, right?   Guest: Yeah, there you go.   Host: Um, I guess fast forwarding a little bit to your current travel lifestyle, what are some of the big frustrations you currently face?   Guest: It's hard, especially being two entrepreneurs, it's hard to coordinate our schedules, that's the number one thing for us because sometimes we're in trainings or on calls that need to be really quiet. Um, and coordinating that can be difficult. So, um, I would say that's the number one frustration. I think the other sort of consistent frustration, and it's the thing that took us time to adjust to, and I don't know if you ever fully adjust to it, but when you live in a van like this, you have to get used to the fact that everything that used to be infinite becomes finite. So you have finite amounts of power, you have finite amounts of water, you have finite amounts of internet, all these different things that you never used to have to think about, now you have to think about every single day, multiple times a day. So wait, can I share my favorite stat? My favorite stat is that the average American uses, I think it's 133 gallons of water a day, I think 33 a day, and we only... how many gallons? I already forgot, we have a 30-gallon water intake to use for four days at least, you know? So, yeah, to your point, that's one... my favorite stats to tell my friends, and they're like, "What?"   Host: So precious water. One tip we learned, we actually put... I'm not sure, do you have a shower in yours?   Guest: We do.   Host: We had the shower kitchen, but one thing we did is we put in a 5-gallon water jug with a pump on it so that we just, that's what we consumed. So, we never consumed any water from like our sink, so we basically had an extra 5 gallons, which again, you're using 133 gallons a day, but yeah, how long were you guys going between when you had to refill and pump out?   Guest: Typically, we would need to refill our water every four to five days. There's a lot of factors involved in that, but I would say with our sort of normal usage, a lot of eating in the van, a lot of doing dishes, we do drink water out of it, we have a water filter for drinking water, and then showering, we're typically not showering every day, we're certainly not taking long showers when we do, but usually we can get through probably about four to five days at a time.   Host: Yeah, they are lightning-fast showers. Yeah, you guys... we would typically... we have a 27-gallon freshwater, I think 14-gallon black and gray, and we would go between like 2 and 4 days before we had to refill, so depending on how conservative we're being with our resources. So just to note, you're not in a camper that has, you know, 50 or 100-gallon tanks, you're... it's really limited.   Guest: And sometimes you have to plan for the situation, you know? If you know you're going to be going sort of off-grid for a week, then you've got to plan accordingly. And then you've got to plan and think about all of your meals or maybe you're not showering as much, and so these are just all the things that are part of the lifestyle that you have to be aware of on a consistent basis. Maybe have to shower in the lakes, which we do a lot. Yeah, which is actually nice.   Host: It is freeing.   Guest: And I want people to know that we do shower, just maybe not as often, or we do use, you know, wipes or something to help freshen us up, and we do wash our face.   Host: You are clean people. Yeah, and this time of year, those, uh, baths in the lake, those are now cold plunges like you talked about earlier.   Guest: They are, but yeah, it's refreshing, it's good for you.   Host: Yeah. Now we talked about some of the frustrations. Now we'll transition a little bit. What is the one thing you love most about this travel lifestyle?   Guest: The thing that comes to mind first for me is... is the freedom of it. So, uh, one of my favorite stories is we were traveling on the west coast, and we were in Malibu, California, and, um, we were planning on continuing to go up the west coast, and we looked at the weather. It was... it was a Friday, it was about 10 a.m., and it was pouring rain. We looked at the weather, it was going to be in, like, the 40s and 50s for the next 10 days, it was rainy, and then we texted some of our friends who also live in a van, and they were in Phoenix, and they were by the pool, and it was 75 degrees. And so they were like, "Hey, why don't you come to Phoenix?" And so 10 a.m., we were in Malibu, and by like 6:00 or 7:00 p.m. that night, we were in Phoenix with our friends, sitting by the pool. So, that freedom, where you could really go anywhere that you want to go... there's always certain restrictions or limitations that might apply to what you can do and where you can go, but for the most part, you have the freedom to choose where you want to go and when you want to go there, and that's a really freeing feeling. I just love seeing the world, or the country, rather. Um, it's just the coolest thing, you know? What I miss the most when, you know, we're in Michigan right now, but what I miss the most about being out on the road is we wake up and you open the door and you go right outside, for the most part. So, I just love that, being immersed in nature and getting outside every day and having those beautiful views to look at while you do work or relax. Now, it's not always a beautiful view, I want that to be made clear as well, as sometimes it's a parking lot view, but, um, I just... that's my favorite part, is seeing the country with my favorite person and meeting people along the way. That has been really special too.   Host: Yeah, the freedom, the beautiful places, and meeting all sorts of people, yeah. Um, we'll transition a little bit to some of the finances with life on the road. Can you break down what a monthly or weekly budget would look like?   Guest: So, I think one of the misconceptions about living in the van is that sometimes we'll tell people like, "Oh yeah, we live in a van and we travel," and they'll say, "Oh my gosh, you must save so much money, that must be such a cheap lifestyle," and it's really not. I mean, we've been home for the last five months in Michigan, and our expenses as we've been home, we're still mostly living in the van, but we spend a lot less money than we do when we are traveling full-time. So, to give an idea of some of the big things, you know, we do have loans and insurance for our van and so on. On a monthly basis, that costs us like $750 a month. Our two biggest expenses when we're on the road are our gas and our food, and between the two of those, we can easily be spending $2,000 a month, especially on gas. We drive a lot, so um, $800 to $1,000 a month is pretty typical for us as we're on the road. And then we're both self-employed, so we have to pay for our own health insurance as well, um, which is expensive. That costs us between five and $600 a month. So, when you start to add some of those, you know, foundational things together, and that's before we get into some of the more discretionary spending, that's a typical month for us. And so, yeah, it just, people tend to think it's a very, very cheap lifestyle, and some people do, that could be the case, I guess, for us, that hasn't been our experience.   Host: Yeah, no, yeah, you're right. And thank you for breaking it down so accurately, and it's a good point. I mean, when you're driving a lot like you guys are, you're spending a ton of money on fuel. But the alternative is if you're not driving a whole lot, you're probably staying in places longer. It doesn't necessarily balance out. I found it's more affordable to be a little more stationary. Um, but it all depends on how much you're driving, what state you're in, and yeah, there's a lot that goes into it. And groceries too, you're buying groceries more often because you have a smaller fridge, you're not buying in bulk. Um, and yeah, there's a lot to consider for sure. Are you guys typically looking for free spots to sleep for the night, or do you like the campgrounds? How are you finding spots?   Guest: We started with using campgrounds in the beginning, just because we weren't as comfortable with stealth camping, and we also had, like, an electrical power situation that wasn't working out, so we wanted to plug in more often. But now, I don't know, I think that was like the first six months of our travel. Now, we 100% try to stay in BLM spots out west for sure, or, you know, we'll find different areas near apartment complexes or parking rides even, you know, we, yeah. So, I don't even remember the last time we stayed at a campground.   Host: Nice, that's good. And as far as, so you're using the Starlink all day, and that's something you pay for per usage. So, how much is that costing you, being your sole internet source?   Guest: The way that the Starlink works is that, first, you have to buy the actual piece of equipment itself. That is $600, it's a one-time fee. And then, if you want to have their Roam service, which allows you to get internet from anywhere, you're not tied to one location, it's $150 a month. So, it does come with unlimited speeds and unlimited data, that part of it is very nice. But that's what it costs, $150 a month for the ongoing service. The other nice thing about it is that you can stop and start your service as you'd like. So, since we've been home back in Michigan and our Starlink has been stowed away the whole time, we've been using our hotspot. We just paused our Starlink service, so we haven't had that fee on a monthly basis. And then, when we hit the road again in a couple of weeks, we'll start it back up.   Host: Nice, cool. You travel with your dog Sadie. What would you say to somebody who says they cannot live this type of lifestyle because they have a dog?   Guest: I would say that bringing your dog in a van with you is the most joyful thing in the world because I can tell she loves to see all the views as well. And I mean, yes, the beginning is a little bit difficult to get your dog, or I've seen people have cats too, um, to get them kind of adapted to the lifestyle. But it's doable and it's just, it... I don't know what our van life experience would be without Sadie. So, I think I would say, yeah, don't let that hold you back. Um, I believe that we're giving our pets the best life ever, um, and ourselves. And it's just so much sweeter with them.   Host: Yeah, on your Instagram videos, it looks like she's having a blast everywhere you guys go.   Guest: So, yeah, the only thing I will say is, number one, is that, um, National Parks do not allow pets for the most part.   Host: That is mostly true. There are a few national parks that are more dog-friendly than others. I'll put a link in the show notes so you can check that out.   Guest: So, that can be the part that's tricky. But if you want to stay outside of the national parks or go into the national parks and we've, you know, left Sadie at a Rover, which is someone who personally watches the dog, and she has a field day. She loves it there too. So then we can go into longer hikes in the national parks. You know, you can make it all work out.   Host: Yeah, sure. Is this sort of thing sustainable? I know you said it costs you, if not the same, a little more living on the road. Is it sustainable, and how long do you plan on continuing van life for?   Guest: Yeah, I mean, I definitely think you can make it sustainable. And I think you can look online and see many examples of people who also make it sustainable. We've made it work for 18 months. And our intention as of right now is to, when we hit the road, travel for another year full-time. We're planning on going back to Alaska again this summer. So, does that mean it's easy all the time? Absolutely not, especially when you run your own business. Does that mean that our income doesn't fluctuate sometimes, and sometimes we can relax about money, and sometimes it's a little bit tighter? We experience all of those things. So, you know, if you apply all of that into your definition of sustainable, you can definitely do it for a long period of time. And there's plenty of people who have lived in their van or something similar and traveled for a lot longer than we have. So, I definitely think it can be... You've got to get creative, takes a lot of problem-solving, but you can definitely do it.   Host: Cool. A couple more questions before we wrap this thing up. What has been the coolest experience you have had while traveling?   Guest: There was this moment where, um, or weekend rather, we met up with a couple van life friends that were from Michigan too, shout out to Dave and Ally, we love you. Um, that's what's so cool is you meet these van life people and you're like, "I already love you, you're awesome." Um, but we went out to dinner with them, and then the next day, we went rock climbing with them. They let us borrow their gear and guided us through one of my scariest things I've ever done. But that was just such a cool experience and memory, um, because, yeah, just shows you how quickly we can make these friendships and trust these people and have a really, really good time. Well, the other one that I think is just a cool moment that we treasure is a similar group of people. We were... We had met people at a couple of different events on the road, and we all got together out in some State Trust land out in Arizona, outside of the Phoenix area, and we spent a week together, camped out there, and just being with people. There were like five vans that were all circled around for the week, and during the day, everyone would get their work done, but you get to hang out with your friends at certain points, and then at night, we'd all cook meals together and sharing different things, then we'd have bonfires, and one time we had a someone had a projector, and we watched some sports and some TV on the side of the van and sat outside. So, you just... You have these really unique moments that I don't know, normal life just doesn't quite afford you in the same way.   Host: Yeah, it is. Yeah, it's a community. And here we are talking to you guys. Has there been anything outside of internet that you've learned you can't live without, Starlink?   Guest: Yeah, I say that just because, as I mentioned earlier, if you want to be able to travel to some of the more remote locations, if you want to stay off-grid longer, if you want to stay in BLM or National Forest Service, if you want to go up to places like Alaska, if you want to be in the more remote places away from the city, I do think it has made that a lot easier and it just made it possible for us to do that. That wasn't really a part of our lifestyle before we got it. So, that is something that I've definitely enjoyed. I would say my Kindle, if you like to read, definitely have a Kindle because there's only so many places you can stuff your books in a van. So, that's been a lifesaver for me.   Host: Yeah, the Kindle, that is a new answer. Starlink, we've heard a few times, but the Kindle, that's a good point. Yeah, because if you're an avid reader and you're in a van, there's not a lot of room. If you're in the middle of nowhere and you finish a book and you want a new one, you have to wait till you get to a city or you have to figure out how to get it to you. So, that's what's great is that you can pick up and read another one right away. Has there been anything you've learned that you don't need while traveling?   Guest: I would say a full wardrobe. I'll shout out to another one of our great van life friends, Dedra and Garen. We went to Alaska with them, and Dee and I wore the same crew neck, Denali yellow hoodie or crew neck together, like, probably five or six days straight. You know, it's just... You don't need all these different options. And less is really more. And when you're out traveling, seeing the country and seeing beautiful things, it doesn't really matter what you look like. And re-wearing stuff as long as it's not filthy is totally fine. So, I would say you don't need a full wardrobe and tons of different shoes and all those things. Definitely get rid of stuff that you don't need and only take what you love. For me, I would say... I know it's not a super specific answer, but there's a lot of things that you don't need. I was... I was one of the people who, before we left, I wanted to have a plan for everything, for every random little thing that could happen or occur while we were on the road. I wanted to make sure that I had the right thing and I had a plan for it. And we traveled for like two or three months, and then we stopped back at home in Michigan, and we... We ended up just dumping so many things that we brought with us. And so, it's just a reminder that you can figure things out on the road, and if you need to go pick something up at the store, you can do that. If you need to make a plan for something or you need to solve some kind of problem, if you need to borrow tools from someone, you can find ways to solve any problem that you run into while you're on the road. And so, you don't have to plan for everything beforehand because you can never predict what's going to happen once you hit the road.     Host: Yeah, no, good points. If you could have listened to this podcast when you were first starting out, what is one question I didn't ask tonight that you wished I would have, and how would you answer that now?   Guest: I think for me, the biggest question that I had when we were thinking about living in the van was so unsure about what sleeping would look like, where we would sleep, and how we would find sleeping spots. So, I guess maybe the question would be, how do you go about finding places to sleep? So, to give a couple of thoughts on that, you know, the first thing that I would say is whenever you're going to a new area, I would suggest doing a little bit of research and having a general idea of what options might look like for you to stay. For example, if you're heading into an area like... I'm gonna use Sedona, Arizona, because we're going to be heading there once we hit the road, learning a little bit about, okay, it's difficult to stay in Sedona, Arizona, so when you get there, you're probably going to have to plan for the fact that you're going to have to stay 30 to 40 minutes outside of there. That's an example of just being familiar with some of the restrictions that might exist. And so, then you need to plan for that. Whatever you're doing that day, you need to allow time to go drive away and find somewhere else to sleep. So, that's kind of step one. And then using apps like iOverlander have been huge for us. They give you some good ideas of places that you could stay, very specific locations that might work. And so, I would recommend going and checking out apps like iOverlander. And then the last thing is, some of this is you kind of learn it through experience, but we've started doing a lot of stealth camping. Essentially, camping within cities and just trying to blend in with other cars at night. And, you know, you can develop a little bit of comfort with when you get to an area, feeling out what the situation might be like, do you feel comfortable there? I tend to go on Google Maps a lot, and I'll look at the satellite view overhead and I'll look for apartment complexes or streets that seem to have a lot of overnight parking. And then, we'll just go try to blend in. And if you're going to go that route, arrive late, leave early, and stay very low profile. But I think that was one of the biggest mysteries for me before getting in the van, was where the heck are we going to sleep? And maybe that's helpful. Yeah, I was definitely anxious about that too, and I felt like I would start the day already worrying about where are we going to sleep at night, right? But you really figure out where we're going to go every night, which is helpful.   Host: Yeah, those are both great answers, and I think we share your frustration or the troubles we had in Sedona with trying to find a place. We looked a long time for a place to sleep there. It's a good tip you bring up about pulling up Google Maps in the satellite and just looking where there is overnight parking, big parking lots, just finding out where that is and hunkering down there. In most cases, the worst thing that will happen is you'll get a knock and you have to leave. But when you don't have any other options, it's something. Yeah, for someone listening to this podcast right now who wants to set up a lifestyle similar to yours but isn't quite there yet, what would be one thing they could start doing today?   Guest: I think get clear on what is important to you and what would excite you the most. Do you want to live in a van or an RV, or do you want to travel in Airbnbs? Or, if you had a van, what would be important to you as well? So, I think just getting clear on that. And I mean, we did a lot of journaling before, too, and just kind of writing down, "Okay, what would be the top three most important things in the van for you?" And really discussing that. So, that's what I would say. And then, go try to experience things in some way. You don't have to buy a van or build a van in order to go try. Maybe traveling in a van, like Eileen said, we started going and traveling and staying in tiny houses just to get a feel for what that experience would be like. Are we okay existing in this smaller space? So, I think you can do some of that planning. If this is something that you're thinking about, and then ultimately, I think you just have to make a commitment and say, "We are going to commit to this lifestyle and pick a date, plan for it, and say, 'You know what? This is when we commit to living this lifestyle by.'" And you'll be amazed that if you do that, you'll be amazed at how you can solve problems and how you can figure out how to get to that point because you can figure out a lot of things. I was just going to say, too, we also set a date to have a little van life going-away party. So, when you have over a hundred people that are showing up to this event to give you hugs and see you later, that's also a really great motivator too because one of my favorite things Chad has said and really helped us start this whole journey is that going for your dreams or going after your dreams and creating the reality of your dreams is inconvenient. There really is never going to be a perfect time. So, just committing to a date, going for it, yeah, it's the best route.   Host: Yeah, that's a great point. Yeah, there is no better time than right now. And when you have that party and a hundred people showing up, that's a lot of pressure to make sure you get going. Otherwise, it's anticlimactic if they all celebrate and you aren't leaving.   Guest: Yeah, totally.   Host: Have there been any other... I know you mentioned one previously, any other YouTube channels or books or other influences that helped motivate you and inspire you to travel?   Guest: Yeah, you know, I also, during this conversation, I totally forgot about our guy. We have a couple that we're going to share, but who's that Australian guy that we used to watch all the time? Oh, Bryce on Living Big in a Tiny House. He's great. We watched those a ton. He just would interview people, and there'd be tours of their tiny houses. So, that was really inspiring and exciting. And then Chris and Sarah, they are on Instagram and YouTube, and they really showcased what living in a van would be like. We loved watching their YouTube channel. And then Sarah and Alex James, they are the ones that we purchased the van life build guide off of, and so they were really, really helpful as well. Yeah, and then once we started our build, Mathers on the Map was a channel that we watched a lot of, and so they helped us a lot of the build process. And then, I know you had her on the podcast, but Linea and Akela, that was a channel that I spent a lot of time... I remember specifically on some of the wiring and some of the electrical components, I watched a few of her videos and found her to be really helpful during the build process.   Host: Nice, yeah. She has a great channel, and she talked a lot about, like you said, not only all the benefits and all, like, kind of the sunshine and rainbow, she went deep into kind of the downsides and everything that's involved with building in van life. So, yeah, she has a great channel. Check out. We'll link all those channels you mentioned in the show notes below. And one more time, guys, while my audience is checking those out, where can they find out more about you?   Host: We are @TheMilesVanLife on Instagram. And then my personal Instagram is @EileenRoseMiles. That's where you can find my meditation podcast called The Inward Journey. And then I'm on Instagram as well. I am @ChadMMiles. And my podcast is called A Level Deeper.   Host: All right, perfect. We'll link everything below. Chad and Eileen, thanks again.   Guest: Thanks for having us.   Host: Thanks, friends.

Welcome to the daily304 – your window into Wonderful, Almost Heaven, West Virginia.   Today is Sunday, March 10  Never mind the groundhog…the first sign of spring is campgrounds opening in the Monongahela National Forest. Wellsburg's Merco Marine becomes a beacon for quality dock systems. And sculpture artist Bill Hopen finds inspiration in Almost Heaven…on today's daily304. #1 – From WV EXPLORER – Officials at the Monongahela National Forest have announced the 2024 opening dates for developed recreation sites across the 921,000-acre forest in eastern West Virginia. Campground and picnic shelter reservations for some sites may be made at Recreation.gov, and roadside camping, or dispersed camping, is available in much of the forest year-round. According to National Forest Service public affairs specialist Tina White, the following dates may change based on local conditions. National Forest Service public affairs specialist Tina White reminds visitors that the lack of cell phone service in the Monongahela National Forest should be considered when planning a trip.  Click the link below for opening dates. Dates may change based on local conditions.  Read more: https://wvexplorer.com/2024/03/01/monongahela-national-forest-opening/   #2 – From WV ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT – Hard work meets innovation in the Northern Panhandle of West Virginia, and Merco Marine stands as an example of this with its West Virginian and American manufacturing expertise.  Based in Wellsburg, since 1979, Merco Marine has become a beacon for quality dock systems, marinas and industrial applications. The company produces an impressive array of nearly 500 products. What sets Merco Marine apart is not just the breadth of their product line, but their commitment to being a West Virginia business. With a resounding #YesWV, Merco Marine embraces the state's prime location and proximity to larger cities, access to water and rail, and the dedication of the West Virginia Department of Economic Development in assisting with business transactions. Read more: https://westvirginia.gov/merco-marine-says-yes-to-west-virginia/   #3 – From WV LIVING – For Bill Hopen, bringing stories to life through sculpture has become one of the most meaningful elements of being an artist.  Originally from New York City, Hopen found beauty, inspiration, and economic freedom in the Mountain State. “In West Virginia, I found all these beautiful hardwoods available in the forest,” Hopen says. “I had chainsaws and chisels, and I began carving.”  With some local attention on his work, residents suggested he teach lessons. Soon thereafter, he became an artist in residence in Clarksburg, where he worked for two years. He began creating small commissioned pieces—then the Clarksburg Historical Society brought him his first large commission: a piece on immigrants for the courthouse plaza. Then he got a call requesting a bronze statue of St. Francis de Assisi for a hospital in Charleston.  Hopen's work can be found all throughout the Mountain State, including a stone carving on the Davis & Elkins College campus, a marble Mother's Day memorial in Grafton, a bronze Senator Robert C. Byrd statue in the West Virginia State Capitol, and a bronze Hawks Nest Tunnel Disaster memorial piece at Tamarack. Read more: https://wvliving.com/bill-hopen-tells-stories-through-sculpting/   Find these stories and more at wv.gov/daily304. The daily304 curated news and information is brought to you by the West Virginia Department of Commerce: Sharing the wealth, beauty and opportunity in West Virginia with the world. Follow the daily304 on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram @daily304. Or find us online at wv.gov and just click the daily304 logo.  That's all for now. Take care. Be safe. Get outside and enjoy all the opportunity West Virginia has to offer.

Flathead National Forest Service & FVCC Teacher Rick Tembath 

Love ‘em or hate ‘em, we wager you'll enjoy this dive into the shiny (not slimy) world of rattlesnakes. This episode, the guys take a close look (but not too close) at the Timber Rattlesnake (Crotalus horridus), trying to show how it's not out to kill you and also finding out how it ended up on the “Don't Tread On Me” flag. Plus, they introduce the newest field guide, Daniel! The episode was recorded on December 7, 2023 at Hunters Creek County Park in East Aurora, NY.Episode NotesOne intriguing question that came up was, “If rattlesnakes that rattle call attention to themselves and get killed by humans, does this mean we're inadvertently selecting for rattlesnakes that don't rattle and creating populations of silent rattlers?” It's an idea that sounds logical, but, as the guys have discovered on many other occasions, that doesn't mean it's true. After some digging through a variety of sources, the guys could find zero research-based evidence supporting the idea of this phenomenon. There are news stories that promote it, but all the ones that do seem to base their info on anecdotal accounts. The most interesting source - and the one the guys found to be the most skeptical (in the best sense of the word) - was from Rattlesnake Solutions LLC, an Arizona-based rattlesnake removal and consulting service. This is ironic because Bill went out of his way during the episode to caution listeners to be wary of such sites, but this one seems to genuinely want to not only share solid info about rattlesnakes but also to combat misinformation. In a post called, “Are rattlesnakes evolving to rattle less, or losing their rattles?”, they explained:Rattlesnakes don't often rattle in the wild, even when there's someone looking at them. This is a great example of confirmation bias. If you hear that rattlesnakes aren't rattling any longer, and you then see a rattlesnake just sitting there and not rattling, this can serve as confirmation that the rumors are true. You then tell others this is the case, having first-hand experience on the matter, comment on Facebook, etc. Just like that, you've become the latest node in the spread of nonsense without realizing it.This can be even more confusing for long-term hikers with a lot of experience, who report seeing this phenomenon over time (decades even), where rattlesnakes used to rattle but now most of the rattlesnakes they see don't: therefore the myth is true. What these anecdotes really look like is something much more simple to explain. Over the years, these people have simply become better at seeing rattlesnakes, and peaceful sightings of rattlesnakes just sitting silent, as they usually do, become more frequent.Check out their full post for more information.Do any snake species have eyelids? As far as we could find, no. Instead, snakes have a brille; a transparent, disc-shaped, immobile scale that covers the eye.Is Pennsylvania one of the “biggest hunting states”? During the episode, Steve asked if he was right thinking that Pennsylvania was one of the biggest hunting states, and Bill confirmed it, pretending that he had some knowledge of whether this was true or not. He looked into it after recording and found this listing of states, ranked according to the number of hunters. Turns out Pennsylvania is #23 (Wyoming is number 1), so Bill was just straight-up wrong. At what point does inactivity cross the line and become brumation? This was a question to which we could not find a definitive answer. From reading several articles, the best explanation the guys could cobble together was that brumation is typically long-term, seasonal, and is something animals prepare for by eating more food, while inactivity is short-term and sporadic. But take that last sentence with a grain of salt; like with hibernation, brumation seems to occur on a spectrum that can vary with species and conditions. More info here.Does the Timber Rattlesnake breeding season differ from north to south? The guys could find no definitive answer for this either, but by looking at descriptions of Timber Rattlesnake breeding seasons state-by-state, they did notice differences. For example, in their home state of NY, it was noted that Timbers breed from early summer (June/July) to early autumn (Sept/Oct), while the National Forest Service listed the Timber's breeding season in Florida as August through October. So, there appears to be a later start to the breeding season further south, and the breeding season appears shorter there, as well. Are sharks viviparous or ovoviviparous? Turns out that sharks are similar to snakes in that some lay eggs (oviparous), some give birth to live young (viviparous), and some have eggs that hatch in the body (ovoviviparous). And, just to make it more complicated, there are some records of sharks reproducing asexually. Finally, Daniel wondered what happens to the eggs in ovoviviparous animals (the ones who have eggs hatching inside their bodies). Are the eggshells expelled, absorbed, or what? This was a question the guys could not find an answer to, so if any listeners out there can help them out, please get in touch!Please comment below if you notice any mistakes or unanswered questions in the episode.Episode LinksWild Snake Education and Discussion Group's article about Timber Rattlesnakes And here's a link to their Facebook group, too.Mary Holland's blog post on vivipary, ovipary, and ovovivipary, and a second site that provided more in-depth info: Everyone's Talking About....Ovoviviparity, Oviparity, and ViviparityCheck out the National Park Service's handy-dandy breakdown of snake dentitionTimber Rattlesnakes are intertwined with US history. Look into the Timber Rattlesnake and it's connections to Ben Franklin and the American RevolutionSponsors and Ways to Support UsGumleaf Boots, USA (free shipping for patrons)Thank you to Always Wandering Art (Website and Etsy Shop) for providing the artwork for many of our episodes (including for part 2 of this episode)! Support us on Patreon!Check out the Field Guides merch at our Teespring store. It's really a great deal: you get to pay us to turn your body into a billboard for the podcast!References / Works CitedAdamski, Jonathan (2020) Viperid Spotlight: Timber Rattlesnake (Crotalus horridus). Available at: https://wsed.org/viperid-spotlight-timber-rattlesnake-crotalus-horridus/ (Accessed: 10-20-23).Brown, W.S., 2016. Lifetime reproduction in a northern metapopulation of timber rattlesnakes (Crotalus horridus). Herpetologica, 72(4), pp.331-342.Mancini, Mark (2021) The Highly Venomous Timber Rattlesnake Is an American Icon. Available at: https://animals.howstuffworks.com/snakes/timber-rattlesnake.htm (Accessed: 9-20-23)Reinert, H.K. and Rupert Jr, R.R., 1999. Impacts of translocation on behavior and survival of timber rattlesnakes, Crotalus horridus. Journal of Herpetology, pp.45-61.Wynns, Samantha (2018) Cabrillo Field Notes: Fang-tastic Friends. Available at: https://www.nps.gov/cabr/blogs/fang-tastic-friends.htm#:~:text=Solenoglyphous%20snakes%20are%20snakes%20with,much%20like%20a%20hypodermic%20needle (Accessed: 9-20-23).

Today – Sun outdoors reporter Jason Blevins has updates and good news on some high profile public lands issues in Colorado. For more on this story: https://coloradosun.com/2023/12/15/mount-democrat-transferred-to-forest-service/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Teak Barhaug is the past president of the Alaska FFA, a current student at the University Of Alaska - Fairbanks and a former resident of Wyoming.  When Teak's father transferred to Alaska to finish his career in the National Forest Service it came at a bit of a price.  Teak's mother, Kimberly, was a former FFA member, Teak's brother had been involved in the 4h and was progressing into the FFA and Teak had been involved in the 4H and was planning on progressing to the FFA.  However, there was no FFA Chapter in Seward, where they would be attending high school. So, Teak and his family took it upon themselves to form an FFA Chapter.  This happened with the minimum number of 10 members, and it took off from there.  This escalated all the way to Teak serving as the state president of Alaska.  During Teak's time in high school he worked in the agri-tourism industry, taking groups of tourists into the wilderness to pan for gold and teaching the how.  Today, Teak is studying biology and botany in college and is loving the life he has found in Alaska.

This podcast hit paid subscribers' inboxes on Nov. 2. It dropped for free subscribers on Nov. 9. To receive future pods as soon as they're live, and to support independent ski journalism, please consider an upgrade to a paid subscription. You can also subscribe to the free tier below:WhoDeirdra Walsh, Vice President and Chief Operating Officer of Park City, UtahRecorded onOctober 18, 2023About Park CityClick here for a mountain stats overviewOwned by: Vail ResortsLocated in: Park City, UtahYear founded: 1963Pass affiliations:* Epic Pass: unlimited* Epic Local Pass: unlimited with holiday blackouts* Tahoe Local: five non-holiday days combined with Vail, Beaver Creek, Breckenridge, Crested Butte, Keystone* Epic Day Pass: access with All Resorts tierClosest neighboring ski areas: Deer Valley (:04), Utah Olympic Park (:09), Woodward Park City (:11), Snowbird (:50), Alta (:55), Solitude (1:00), Brighton (1:08) – or just ski between them all; travel times vary massively pending weather, traffic, and time of yearBase elevation: 6,800 feetSummit elevation: 9,998 feet at the top of Jupiter (can hike to 10,026 on Jupiter Peak)Vertical drop: 3,226 feetSkiable Acres: 7,300 acresAverage annual snowfall: 355 inchesTrail count: 330+ (50% advanced/expert, 42% intermediate, 8% beginner)Lift count: 41 (2 eight-passenger gondolas, 1 pulse gondola, 1 cabriolet, 6 high-speed six-packs, 10 high-speed quads, 5 fixed-grip quads, 7 triples, 4 doubles, 3 carpets, 2 ropetows – view Lift Blog's inventory of Park City's lift fleet)View historic Park City trailmaps on skimap.org.Why I interviewed herAn unfortunate requirement of this job is concocting differentiated verbiage to describe a snowy hill equipped with chairlifts. Most often, I revert to the three standbys: ski area, mountain, and resort/ski resort. I use them interchangeably, as one may use couch/sofa or dinner/supper (for several decades, I thought oven/stove to be a similar pairing; imagine my surprise to discover that these words described two separate parts of one familiar machine). But that is problematic, of course, because while every enterprise that I describe is some sort of ski area, only around half of them are anywhere near an actual mountain. And an even smaller percentage of those are resorts. Still, I swap the trio around like T-shirts in the world's smallest wardrobe, hoping my readers value the absence of repetition more than they resent the mental gymnastics required to consider 210-vertical-foot Snow Snake, Michigan a “ski resort.”But these equivalencies introduce a problem when I get to Park City. At 7,300 acres, Park City sprawls over 37 percent more terrain than Vail Mountain, Vail Resorts' second-largest U.S. ski area, and the fourth-biggest in the nation overall. To call this a “ski area” seems inadequate, like describing an aircraft carrier as a “boat.” Even “mountain” feels insubstantial, as Park City's forty-some-odd lifts shoots-and-ladder their way over at least a dozen separate summits. “Ski resort” comes closest to capturing the grandeur of the whole operation, but even that undersells the experience, given that the ski runs are directly knotted to the town below them – a town that is a ski town but is also so much more.In recent years, “megaresort” has settled into the ski lexicon, usually as a pejorative describing a thing to be avoided, a tourist magnet that has swapped its soul for a Disney-esque welcome mat. “Your estimated wait time to board the Ultimate Super Summit Interactive 4D 8K Turbo Gondola is [one hour and 45 minutes]”. The “megas,” freighted with the existential burden of Epic and Ikon flagships, carry just a bit too much cruise ship mass-escapism and Cheesecake Factory illusions of luxe to truly capture that remote wilderness fantasy that is at least half the point of skiing. Right?Not really. Not any more than Times Square captures the essence of New York City or the security lines outside the ballpark distill the experience of consuming live sports. Yes, this is part of it, like the gondola lines winding back to the interstate are part of peak-day Park City. Those, along with the Epic Pass or the (up to) $299 lift ticket, are the cost of admission. But get through the gates, and a sprawling kingdom awaits.I don't know how many people ski Park City on a busy day. Let's call it 20,000. The vast majority of them are going to spend the vast majority of their day lapping the groomers, which occupy a small fraction of Park City's endless varied terrain. With its cascading hillocks, its limitless pitch-perfect glades, its lifts shooting every which way like hammered-together contraptions in some snowy realm of silver-miners - their century-old buildings and conveyor belts rising still off the mountain – Park City delivers a singular ski experience. Call it a “mountain,” a “ski area,” a “ski resort,” or a “megaresort” – all are accurate but also inadequate. Park City, in the lexicon of American skiing, stands alone.What we talked aboutPark City's deep 2022-23 winter; closing on May 1; skiing Missouri; Lake Tahoe; how America's largest ski area runs as a logistical and cultural unit; living through the Powdr-to-Vail ownership transition; the awesome realization that Park City and Canyons were one; Vail's deliberate culture of women's empowerment; the history and purpose of those giant industrial structures dotting Park City ski area; how you can tour them; the novel relationship between the ski area and the town at its base; Park City's Olympic legacy; thoughts on future potential Winter Olympic Games in Utah and at Park City; why a six-pack and an eight-pack chairlift scheduled for installation at Park City last year never happened; where those lifts went instead; whether those upgrades could ever happen; the incoming Sunrise Gondola; the logic of the Over And Out lift; Red Pine Gondola improvements; why the Jupiter double is unlikely to be upgraded anytime soon; Town Lift; reflecting on year one of paid parking; and the massive new employee housing development at Canyons.      Why I thought that now was a good time for this interviewIf only The Storm had existed in 2014. Because wouldn't that have been fun? Hostile takeovers are rare in skiing. You normally can't give a ski area (sorry, a super-megaresort) away. Vail taking this one off Powdr's lunch tray is kind of amazing, kind of sad, kind of disturbing, and kind scary. Like, did that really happen? It did, so onward we go.Walsh, as it happened, worked at Park City at the time, though in a much different role, so we talked about what is was like to live through the transition. But two other events shape our modern perception of Park City: The Olympics and The Lifts.The Olympics, of course, came to Park City in 2002. On this podcast a few weeks back, Snowbird General Manager Dave Fields outlined the dramatic changes the Games wrought on Utah skiing. Suddenly, everyone on the planet realized that a half dozen ski resorts that averaged between 300 and 500 inches of snow per winter were lined up 45 minutes from a major international airport on good roads. And they were like, “Wait that's real?” And they all starting coming – annual Utah skier visits have more than doubled since the Olympics, from around 3 million in winter 2001-02 to more than 7 million in last year's amazing ski season. Which is cool. But the Olympics are (probably) coming back to Salt Lake, in 2030 or 2034, and Park City will likely be a part of them again. So we talk about that.The Lifts refers to this story that I covered last October:Last September, Vail Resorts announced what was likely the largest set of single-season lift upgrades in the history of the world: $315-plus million on 19 lifts (later increased to 21 lifts) across 14 ski areas. Two of those lifts would land in Park City: a D-line eight-pack would replace the Silverlode six, and a six-pack would replace the Eagle and Eaglet triples. Two more lifts in a town with 62 of them (Park City sits right next door to Deer Valley). Surely this would be another routine project for the world's largest ski area operator.It wasn't. In June, four local residents – Clive Bush, Angela Moschetta, Deborah Rentfrow, and Mark Stemler – successfully appealed the Park City Planning Commission's previous approval of the lift projects.“The upgrades were appealed on the basis that the proposed eight-place and six-place chairs were not consistent with the 1998 development agreement that governs the resort,” SAM wrote at the time. “The planning commission also cited the need for a more thorough review of the resort's comfortable carrying capacity calculations and parking mitigation plan, finding PCM's proposed paid parking plan at the Mountain Village insufficient.”So instead of rising on the mountain, the lifts spent the summer, in pieces, in the parking lot. Vail admitted defeat, at least temporarily. “We are considering our options and next steps based on today's disappointing decision—but one thing is clear—we will not be able to move forward with these two lift upgrades for the 22-23 winter season,” Park City Mountain Resort Vice President and Chief Operating Officer Deirdra Walsh said in response to the decision.One of the options Vail apparently considered was trucking the lifts to friendlier locales. Last Wednesday, as part of its year-end earnings release, Vail announced that the two lifts would be moved to Whistler and installed in time for the 2023-24 ski season. The eight-pack will replace the 1,129-vertical-foot Fitzsimmons high-speed quad on Whistler, giving the mountain 18 seats (!) out of the village (the lift runs alongside the 10-passenger Whistler Village Gondola). The six-pack will replace the Jersey Cream high-speed quad on Blackcomb, a midmountain lift with a 1,230-foot vertical rise. These will join the new Big Red six-pack and 10-passenger Creekside Gondola going in this summer on the Whistler side, giving the largest ski area on the continent four new lifts in two years. …Meanwhile, Park City skiers will have to continue riding Silverlode, a sixer dating to 1996, and Eagle, a 1993 Garaventa CTEC triple (the Eaglet lift, unfortunately, is already gone). The vintage of the remaining lifts don't sound particularly creaky, but both were built for a different, pre-Epic Pass Park City, and one that wasn't connected via the Quicksilver Gondola to the Canyons side of the resort. Vail targeted these choke points to improve the mountain's flow. But skiers are stuck with them indefinitely.On paper, Vail remains “committed to resolving our permit to upgrade the Eagle and Silverlode lifts in Park City.” I don't doubt that. But I wonder if the four individuals who chose to choke up this whole process understand the scale of what they just destroyed. Those two lifts, combined, probably cost somewhere around $50 million. Minimum. Maybe the resort will try again. Maybe it won't. Surely Vail can find a lot of places to spend its money with far less friction.All of which I thought was rather hilarious, for a number of reasons. First, stopping an enormous project on procedural grounds for nebulous reasons is the most U.S. American thing ever. Second, the more these sorts of over-the-top stall tactics are wielded for petty purposes (ski areas need to be able to upgrade chairlifts), the more likely we are to lose them, as politicians who never stop bragging about how “business-friendly” Utah is look to streamline these pesky checks and balances. Third, Vail unapologetically yanking those things out of the parking lot and hauling them up to BC was the company's brashest move since it punched Powdr in the face and took its resort away. It was harsh but necessary, a signal that the world keeps moving around the sun even when a small group of nitwits want it to stop on its axis.Questions I wish I'd askedOn Scott's Bowl accessI wanted to ask Walsh about the strange fact that Scott's Bowl and West Scott's Bowl – two high-alpine sections off Jupiter, suddenly closed in 2018 and stayed shut for four years. This story from the Park Record tells it well enough:Park City Mountain Resort on Tuesday said a high-altitude swath of terrain has reopened more than three years after a closure caused by the inability of the resort and the landowner to reach a lease agreement. …PCMR in December of 2018 indefinitely closed the terrain. The closure also included terrain located between Scott's Bowl and Constellation, a nearby ski run. The resort at the time of the closure said the landowner opted not to renew a lease. There had been an agreement in place for longer than 14 years, PCMR said at the time.A firm called Silver King Mining Company, with origins dating to Park City's silver-mining era, owns the land. The lease and renewals had been struck between the Gallivan family-controlled Silver King Mining Company and Powdr Corp., the former owner of PCMR. A representative of Silver King Mining Company in late 2018 indicated the firm traditionally accepted lift passes as compensation for the use of the land.The lease went to Vail Resorts when it acquired PCMR. The two sides negotiated a one-year extension but were unable at the time to reach a long-term agreement, the Silver King Mining Company side said in late 2018.Land ownership, particularly in the west, can be a wild patchwork. The majority of large western ski areas sit on National Forest Service land, but Park City (and neighboring Deer Valley), do not. While this grants them some developmental advantages over their neighbors in the Cottonwoods, who sit mostly or entirely on public land, it also means that sprawling Park City has more landlords than it would probably like.On Park City Epic Pass accessThis is the first Vail Resorts interview in a while where I haven't asked the question about Epic Pass access. I don't have a high-minded reason for that – I simply ran out of time.On the strange aversion to safety bars among Western U.S. skiersWhen you ski in Europe or, to a lesser-extent, the Northeastern U.S., skiers lower the chairlift safety bar reflexively, and typically before the carrier has exited the loading terminal. While I found this jarring when I first moved to New York from the Midwest – where safety bars remain rare – I quickly adapted, and now find it disconcerting to ride a chair without one.This whole dynamic is flipped in the West, where a sort of tough-guy bravado prevails, and skiers tend to ride with the safety bar aloft as a matter of stubborn pride. Many seem shocked, even offended, when I announce that I'm lowering it (and I always announce it, and bring it down slowly). Perhaps they are afraid their friends will see them riding with a lame tourist. It's all a bit tedious and stupid. I've had a few incidents where I've passed out for mysterious reasons. If that happens on a chairlift, I'd rather not die before I regain consciousness. So I like the bar. Vail Resorts, however, mandates that all employees lower the safety bar when in uniform. That doesn't mean they always do it. This past January, a Park City ski patroller died when a tree fell on the Short Cut liftline, flinging him into a snowbank, where he suffocated. Utah Occupational Safety and Health (UOSH) fined the resort a laughably inadequate sum of $2,500 for failing to clear potential hazards around the lift. UOSH's report did not indicate whether the patroller, 29-year-old Christian Helger, had lowered his safety bar, and experts who spoke to Fox 13 in Salt Lake City said that it may not have mattered. “With that type of hit from the weight of that type of a tree with that much snow on it, I don't know that the safety bar would have prevented this incident,” Travis Heggie, a Bowling Green State University professor, told the station.Fair enough. But a man is dead, and understanding the exact circumstances surrounding his death may help prevent another in the future. This is why airplane travel is so safe – regulators consider every factor of every tragedy to engineer similar failures out of future flights. We ought to be doing the same with chairlifts.Chairlifts are, on the whole, very safe to ride. But accidents, when they do happen, can be catastrophic. Miroslava “Mirka” Lewis, a former Stevens Pass employee, recently sued Vail Resorts after a fall from one of Stevens Pass' antique Riblet chairs in January of 2022 left her permanently disabled. From a local paper out of Everett, Washington:The lawsuit claims the ski lift Lewis was operating was designed in the 1960s by Riblet Tramway Company and lacked several safety precautions now considered standard in modern lifts. The lift suspended two chairs from a single pole in the center, with no safety bars or bails on the outside to confine passengers.Lewis suffered a traumatic brain injury, collapsed lung, four fractured vertebrae and other severe injuries, according to the complaint. She required multiple surgeries on her breasts and knees.The plaintiff also reportedly had to relearn how to speak, walk and write due to the severity of her injuries.It is unclear which lift Lewis was riding, but two centerpole Riblets remained at the resort last January: Kehr's and Seventh Heaven. Kehr's has since been removed. Vail Resorts, as a general policy, retrofits all of its chairlifts with safety bars, but these chairs' early-1960s recessed centerpole design is impossible to retrofit. So the lifts remain in their vintage state. It's a bit like buying a '57 Chevy – damn, does that thing look sweet, but if you drive it into a tree, you're kinda screwed without that seatbelt.Vail Resorts, by retrofitting its chairlifts and mandating employee use, has done more than probably any other entity to encourage safety bar use on chairlifts. But the industry, as a whole, could do more. In the east, safety bar use has been normalized by aggressive enforcement from lift crews and ski patrol and, in some cases (Vermont, Massachusetts, and New York), state laws mandating their use. Yet, across the West and the Midwest, hundreds of chairlifts still lack safety bars, let alone enforcement. That, in turn, discourages normalization of their use, and contributes to the blasé and dismissive attitude among western skiers, many of whom view the contraptions as extraneous.Technology can eventually resolve the issue for us – the new Burns high-speed quad at Deer Valley and the new Camelot six-pack at The Highlands in Michigan both drop the bar automatically, and raise it just before unload. But that's two chairlifts, at two very high-end resorts, out of 2,400 or so spinning in America. That technology is too expensive to apply at scale, and will be for the foreseeable future.So what to do? I think it starts with dismantling the tough-guy resistance. There are echoes here of the shift to widespread helmet use. Twenty years ago, almost no one, including me, wore helmets when skiing. I held out for a particularly long time – until 2016. But wearing them is the norm now, even among Western Bro Brahs. As the leader of a major Vail ski area who has watched the resort evolve first-hand, I think Walsh would have some valuable insights here into the roots of bar resistance and how Vail is tackling it, but we just didn't have the time to get into it.What I got wrongI noted that Nadia Guerriero, who appeared on this podcast last year as the VP/COO of Beaver Creek, had “transitioned to a regional leadership role.” That role is senior vice president and chief operating officer of Vail Resorts' Rockies Region.Park City personnel also provided a few clarifications following our conversation:* When discussing our 2023 closing date and “All the Way to May!” Deirdra said we had already extended our season by a week. In fact, our first extension was for two weeks: from April 9 to April 23. On April 12, we announced an additional eight days.* When discussing how we memorialize our Olympic legacy, Deirdra stated, “We have a mountain in the base area.” That should have been “monument.”* When discussing our lift upgrade permit, Deirdra said, “Our permit was upheld.” This should have been EITHER withheld, OR “The appeal was upheld.”Why you should ski Park CityPark City is a version of something that America needs a lot more of: a walkable community integrated with the ski area above it in a meaningful and seamless way. In Europe, this is the norm. In U.S. America, the exception. Only a few towns give you that experience: Telluride, Aspen, Red River. Park City is worth a visit for that experience alone – of sliding to the street, clicking out of your skis, and walking to the bar. It's novel and unexpected here in the land of King Car, but it feels very natural and right when you do it.The skiing, of course, is outstanding. There's less chest-thumping here than up in the Cottonwoods – less snow, too – but still plenty of steep stuff, plenty of glades, plenty of tucked-away spots where you look around and wonder where everyone went. Zip around off McConkey's or Jupiter or Tombstone or Ninety-Nine 90 or Super Condor and you'll find it. This is not Snowbird-off-the-Cirque stuff, but it's pretty good.But what Park City really is, at its core, is one of the world's great intermediate ski kingdoms. I'm talking here about King Con and Silverlode, the amazing jumble of blues skier's right off Tombstone, Saddleback and Dreamscape and Iron Mountain. You can ride express lifts pretty much everywhere as you skip around the low-angle glory. The mountain does not shoot skyward with the drama of Jackson or Palisades or Snowbird or Aspen. It rises and falls, rolls on forever, gifting you, off each summit, another peak to ride to.Before Vail bought it and stapled the resort together with the Canyons, no one talked about Park City in such epic – no pun intended – terms. It was just another of dozens of very good western ski areas. But that combination with its neighbor created something vast and otherworldly, six-and-a-half miles end-to-end, a scale that cannot be appreciated in any way other than to go ski it.Podcast NotesOn Vail's target opening and closing datesIn previous seasons, Vail Resorts would release target opening and closing dates for all of its ski areas. Perhaps traumatized by short seasons, particularly in the Midwest, the company released only target opening dates, and only for its largest ski areas, for 2023:The remainder of its ski areas, “expect to open consistent with target dates shared in years past,” according to a Vail Resorts press release.On Hidden Valley, MissouriWalsh's first ski experience was at Hidden Valley, a 320-footer just west of St. Louis. It's one of just two ski areas in Missouri (both of which Vail owns). Vail happened to acquire this little guy in the 2019 Peak Resorts acquisition. Here's a trailmap:Not to be confused, of course, with Vail's other Hidden Valley, which is stashed in Pennsylvania:Rather than renaming one or the other of these, I am actually in favor of just massively confusing everything by renaming every mountain in the portfolio “Vail Mountain” followed by its zip code. On the Vail-Powdr transitionI'll reset this 2019 story from the Park Record that I initially shared in the article accompanying my podcast conversation with Mount Snow GM Brian Suhadolc in August, who also worked at Park City during Vail's takeover from Powdr:In some circles, though, the whispers had already started that something was afoot, and perhaps not right, at PCMR. Powdr Corp. for some unknown reason was negotiating a sale of its flagship resort, the most prevalent of the rumblings held. The CEO of Powdr Corp., John Cumming, late in 2011 had publicly stated there was not a deal involving PCMR under negotiation, telling Park City leaders during a Marsac Building appearance in December of that year the resort was “not for sale.” Later that evening, he told The Park Record the rumors “always amuse me.”The reality was far more astonishing and something that would define the decade in Park City in a similar fashion as the Olympics did in the previous 10-year span and the population boom did in the 1990s.The corporate infrastructure in the spring of 2011 had inadvertently failed to renew two leases on the land underlying most of the PCMR terrain, propelling the PCMR side and the landowner, a firm under the umbrella of Talisker Corp., into what were initially private negotiations and then into a dramatic lawsuit that unfolded in state court as the Park City community, the tourism industry and the North American ski industry watched in disbelief. As the decade ends, the turmoil that beset PCMR stands, in many ways, as the instigator of a changing Park City that has left so many Parkites uneasy about the city's future as a true community.The PCMR side launched the litigation in March of 2012, saying the future of the resort was at stake in the case. PCMR might be forced to close if it did not prevail, the president and general manager of the resort at the time said at the outset of the case. Talisker Land Holdings, LLC countered that the leases had expired, suddenly leaving doubts that Powdr Corp. would retain control of PCMR. …Colorado-based Vail Resorts, one of Powdr Corp.'s industry rivals, would enter the case on the Talisker Land Holdings, LLC side in May of 2013 with the aim of wresting the disputed land from Powdr Corp. and coupling it with nearby Canyons Resort, which was branded a Vail Resorts property as part of a long-term lease and operations agreement reached at the same time of the Vail Resorts entry into the case. Vail Resorts was already an industry behemoth with its namesake property in the Rockies and other mountain resorts across North America. The addition of Canyons Resort would advance the Vail Resorts portfolio in one of North America's key skiing states.It was a deft maneuver orchestrated by the chairman and CEO of Vail Resorts, Rob Katz. The agreement was pegged at upward of $300 million in long-term debt. As part of the deal, Vail Resorts also seized control of the litigation on behalf of Talisker Land Holdings, LLC. …The lawsuit itself unfolded with stunning developments followed by shocking ones over the course of two-plus years. In one stupefying moment, the Talisker Land Holdings, LLC attorneys discovered a crucial letter from the PCMR side regarding the leases had been backdated. In another such moment, PCMR outlined plans to essentially dismantle the resort infrastructure, possibly on an around-the-clock schedule, if it was ordered off the disputed land.What was transpiring in the courtroom was inconceivable to the community. How could Powdr Corp., even inadvertently, not renew the leases on the ground that made up most of the skiing terrain at PCMR, many asked. Why couldn't Powdr Corp. and Talisker Land Holdings, LLC just reach a new agreement, others wondered. And many became weary as businessmen and their attorneys took to the courtroom with the future of PCMR, critical to a broad swath of the local economy, at stake. The mood eventually shifted to exasperation as it appeared there was a chance PCMR would not open for a ski season if Talisker Land Holdings, LLC moved forward with an eviction against Powdr Corp. from the disputed terrain.The lawsuit wore on with the Talisker Land Holdings, LLC-Vail Resorts side winning a series of key rulings from the 3rd District Court judge presiding over the case. Judge Ryan Harris in the summer of 2014 signed a de facto eviction notice against PCMR and ordered the sides into mediation. Powdr Corp., realizing there was little more that could be accomplished as it attempted to maintain control of PCMR, negotiated a $182.5 million sale of the resort to Vail Resorts that September.Incredible. Here, if you're curious, was Park City just before the merger:And Canyons:Now, imagine if someone, someday, merged this whole operation with the expanded version of Deer Valley, which sits right next door to Park City on Empire Peak:Here's a closer look at the border between the two, which is separated by ropes, rather than by any geographic barrier:Right around the time Vail took over Park City, all seven major local ski areas discussed a “One Wasatch” interconnect, which could be accomplished with a handful of lifts between Brighton and Park City and between Solitude and Alta (the Canyons/Park City connection below has since been built; Brighton and Solitude already share a ski link, as do Alta and Snowbird):This plan died under an avalanche of external factors, and is unlikely to be resurrected anytime soon. However, the mountains aren't getting any farther apart physically, and at some point we're going to accept that a few aerial lifts through the wilderness are a lot less damaging to our environment than thousands of cars cluttering up our roads.On the Park City-Canyons connector gondolaWe talked a bit about the Quicksilver Gondola, which, eight years after its construction, is taken for granted. But it's an amazing machine, a 7,767-foot-long connector that fused Park City to the much-larger Canyons, creating the largest interconnected ski resort in the United States. The fact that such a major, transformative lift opened in 2015, just a year after Vail acquired Park City, and the ski area is now having trouble simply upgrading two older lifts, speaks to how dramatically sentiment around the resort has changed within town.On Park City's mining historyAn amazing feature of skiing Park City is the gigantic warehouses, conveyor belts, and other industrial artifacts that dot the landscape. Visit Park City hosts free daily tours of these historic structures, which we discuss in the podcast. You can learn more here.On the Friends of Ski Mountain Mining HistoryWalsh mentions an organization called “Friends of Ski Mountain Mining History.” This group assumes the burden of restoring and maintaining all of these historic structures. From their website:More than 300 mines once operated in Park City, with the last silver mine closing in 1982. Twenty historic mine structures still exist today, many can been seen while skiing, hiking or mountain biking on our mountain trails. Due to the ravages of time and our harsh winters, many of the mine structures are dilapidated and in critical need of repair. We are committed to preserving our rich mining legacy for future residents and visitors before we lose these historic structures forever.Over the past seven years, our dedicated volunteers have completed stabilization of the King Con Counterweight, California Comstock Mill, Jupiter Ore Bin, Little Bell Ore Bin, two Silver King Water Tanks, the Silver Star Boiler Room and Coal Hopper, the Thaynes Conveyor and the King Con Ore Bin. Previous projects undertaken by our members include the Silver King Aerial Tramway Towers and two Silver King Water Tanks adjacent to the Silver Queen ski run. Our lecture with Clark Martinez, principal contractor on our projects and Jonathan Richards who is our structural engineer, will provide you insight as to how we saved these monuments to our mining era.Preserving our mining heritage is expensive. Our next challenge is to save the Silver King Headframe located at the base of the Bonanza lift and Thaynes Headframe near the Thaynes lift at Park City Mountain Resort. These massive buildings and adjacent structures will take 6 years to stabilize with an expected cost of $3 million. We are embarking on a capital campaign to raise the funds required to save these iconic structures. You can learn more about our campaign here.Here's a cool but slow-paced video about it:On the 2030/34 Winter OlympicsWe talk a bit about the potential for Salt Lake City – and, by extension, host mountains Park City, Deer Valley, and Snowbasin – to host a future Olympic Games. While both 2030 and 2034 are possibilities, the latter increasingly looks likely. Per an October Deseret News article:It looks like there's no competition for Salt Lake City's bid to host the 2034 Winter Games.International Olympic Committee members voted Sunday to formally award both the 2030 and 2034 Winter Games together next year after being told Salt Lake City's preference is for 2034 and the other three candidates still in the race are finalizing bids for 2030.“I think it's everything we could have hoped for,” said Fraser Bullock, president and CEO of the Salt Lake City-Utah Committee for the Games, describing the decision as “a tremendous step forward” now that Salt Lake City was identified as the only candidate for 2034.Salt Lake City is bidding to host the more than $2.2 billion event in either 2030 or 2034, but has made it clear waiting until the later date is better financially, because that will avoid competition for domestic sponsors with the 2028 Summer Games in Los Angeles.The next step for the bid that began more than a decade ago is a virtual presentation to the IOC's Future Host Commission for the Winter Games during the week starting Nov. 19 that will include Gov. Spencer Cox and Salt Lake City Mayor Erin Mendenhall. IOC Executive Board members will decide when they meet from Nov. 30 through Dec. 1 which bids will advance to contract negotiations for 2030 and 2034, known as targeted dialogue under the new, less formal selection process. Their choices to host the 2030 and 2034 Winter Games will go to the full membership for a final ratification vote next year, likely in July just before the start of the 2024 Summer Games in Paris. The Summer Olympics have evolved into a toxic expense that no one really wants. The Winter Games, however, still seem desirable, and I've yet to encounter any significant resistance from the Utah ski community, who have (not entirely but in significant pockets) kind of made resistence to everything their default posture.The Storm explores the world of lift-served skiing year-round. Join us.The Storm publishes year-round, and guarantees 100 articles per year. This is article 96/100 in 2023, and number 482 since launching on Oct. 13, 2019. Want to send feedback? Reply to this email and I will answer (unless you sound insane, or, more likely, I just get busy). You can also email skiing@substack.com. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.stormskiing.com/subscribe

Full transcription available at http://heartsofgoldpodcast.com/ Callie shares her Girl Scout Gold Award project, which focuses on addressing the issue of food deserts in her town. She talks about her long-standing connection with the Bart Garrison Agricultural Museum and how she proposed the idea of creating a garden there to combat the lack of access to healthy foods. Inspired by World War II victory gardens, Callie's project aims to provide a sustainable solution for her community. More from Callie: My name is Callie Majors and I am from Pendleton, South Carolina. My Girl Scout journey started when I was five years old at the Daisy level. Throughout my time in Girl Scouts, I have participated in many summer camps, community service activities, Girl Scout Trail Blazers, destinations, and earned my Bronze, Sliver, and Gold Award. Growing up, I was also a part of Cross Country, Track and Field, Symphonic Band, The American Legion, Girls State, Beta Club, and National Honors Society. I am currently at the United States Military Academy beginning my second year. After graduation, I will commission into the United States Army as a 2nd Lieutenant and my goal is to become an Aviation Officer. After 20 years in the Army, I plan to retire and begin my career as a Park Ranger for the National Forest Service. I would like to mention, however, the activity where I developed the most communication, confidence, planning, leadership, character, mental fortitude, and public speaking skills was in Girl Scouts. Girl Scouts is the biggest contributor to my success that I am experiencing today and I will be forever grateful.

Episode Summary This week on Live Like the World is Dying, Pat talks to Margaret about working outside for a living with the National Park Service. They talk about gear, preparedness while hiking, search and rescue, how to prevent needing to be sought for and rescued, and the unfortunate realities of climate change. Guest Info Find Pat on the trails. Do not find them on the internet. They cannot be found there. Host Info Margaret can be found on twitter @magpiekilljoy or instagram at @margaretkilljoy. Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness. You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness. Transcript Live Like the World is Dying: Pat on Working Outside Margaret 00:14 Hello and welcome to Live Like the World is Dying, your podcast for what feels like the end times. I'm your host today, Margaret Killjoy. And this week...Okay, so you know sometimes I have these shows and it's basically like I find people who talk to me about the things that I've decided I'm really interested in that week. Well, this is one of those examples! And so I'm really excited about it. I think you'll all be excited about it too because this week I am talking to Pat who works outside for a living and he gets to do search and rescue and help people access parks because he is a backwoods...person...at a national park. And yeah, I don't know, I think...I'm excited for the conversation. I can't tell you what's gonna be in it because I haven't done it yet because I record these before I do the interview instead of afterwards. But! This podcast is a proud member of the Channel Zero Network of anarchist podcasts and here's a jingle from another show on the network. Baba Baba bu ba baa ba ba baaa. [Making noises like a song melody] Margaret 01:51 Okay, and we're back. Pat, so if you could introduce yourself with your name, your pronouns, and then just like a little bit about the work you do? Pat 02:02 Yeah. So I'm Pat. He/him. I am a back country ranger for the National Park Service and I've been doing it for about 10 years. So I basically just hike around to talk with people, help out with search and rescue, clean toilets, do whatever needs doing. Yeah. Margaret 02:24 Hell yeah. Okay, I have one question up front. Pat 02:26 Yes. Margaret 02:27 Okay, once when I was doing this forest campaign in a national forest--so not the Park Service, but, you know, the National Forest Service--there was this pit toilet. And--because he brought up toilets--there was this pit toilet and it had a door. And we would prop the door open to avoid it smelling. But then the Ranger came by and yelled at us and says that it works better...The like ventilation system is built on the door being closed. But then other times, I feel like I've seen ones that say, "Leave the door open." What's the deal? Pat 03:00 That is...I'm going to chalk it up to every toilet in the back country is different. So maybe one of them was like designed in such a way with specific ventilation systems, because they get pretty high tech. We have some that have like little solar powered computer fans that will like vent air out and bring fresh air in to try to dry them out. It's kind of neat. It's a huge part of the job. Margaret 03:25 This was like 20 years ago I think...Probably didn't have a solar panel Pat 03:27 Probably not solar powered then. [At the same time as Margaret says above Margaret 03:28 I just couldn't figure out whether she was like fucking with us because she didn't like us or whether she was just like annoyed at these idiots who thought they knew about the woods but didn't. Pat 03:41 Well, the reason they gave may have not been like 100% accurate. Like one thing that comes to mind is--it really sucks--but you know, critters find their way down into there. And so if the door's open like, you know, a raccoon or something may climb down there and like it really sucks because oftentimes they get down there and they can't get out. And you know, at my park, we shovel all of that waste out into buckets and hike it out. [Margaret makes a "pee-yew" noise of disgust] And sometimes you know little chipmunks and stuff are in there. It's really sad. Margaret 04:12 Yeah, Is there like a back entrance where you can go down and access the pit? Or do you have to just literally like drop buckets and like it's a terrible well? Pat 04:24 Oh, no, those structures are literally just...like you just you just like rock them and move the wooden structures off. They're not secured to the ground. and then you put a hole in the ground with just like posthole diggers. Margaret 04:44 That's fun. I'm glad that this is the first question I asked you. [Laughing] Pat 04:48 It's part of the job. Sorry, gonna turn all the listeners away. Margaret 04:52 No, no, no, no, I asked. And I think that that's like....Okay, I mean, that even gets kind of...Um, when I would do any kind of forest defense or anything that involves living in the woods, I feel like one of the main signs of like a newbie in a bad way was people who didn't dig a hole before they took a shit. Pat 04:53 Yes. Margaret 04:54 You know? And so the stuff that when you're like in houses and stuff that you sort of take for granted, you can't take for granted when you're not. So it sort of makes sense that shit is the defining characteristic. Pat 05:28 Yeah, it's kind of fun. Margaret 05:29 But, speaking of shitty jobs...Hehe, I had to make the pun at least once. I'm very sorry. What got you deciding that you want to work outside? Pat 05:41 I feel like I was kind of like destined for it. Kind of a weird way to put it. I was basically...my first backpacking trip was before I could walk. My dad put me on his shoulders. And I was out in the woods when I still in diapers. I grew up doing Boy Scouts so I was backpacking basically once a month. And so I just continuously did that essentially my whole life, and then, weirdly enough, in college kind of fell off for a bit. And then, you know, I graduated and decided to volunteer and have been doing it ever since. Margaret 06:17 Okay, and you moved from volunteer to now this is what you do professionally, right? Pat 06:20 Yeah, that's kind of the primary path to get in. If you're not coming from some sort of military background or something, you kind of have to volunteer or do an internship or something like that. It's a pretty small community. So getting your foot in the door and learning the lingo is kind of important. And having a name that a hiring manager can call for a reference check that's like in the system is kind of an important deal. Margaret 06:49 That makes sense. Pat 06:50 Yeah. Kind of a small community. Margaret 06:53 What do you like about it? Like, I think that a lot of people listening...So the reason I wanted to had you on, part of it is about search and rescue stuff--which I want to talk to you about in a bit--But part of why I wanted to have you on is I think that a lot of the listeners, a lot of listeners do either work outside or spend...Like I actually work inside, but almost all of my hobbies--and I make it this way on purpose--take me outside. And then I often sort of live outside. I don't currently, but I have at various points. But I think that a lot of people are looking for ways to get outside and don't like their current work or don't have work at all or whatever. And so I guess I want to ask you about what you like and don't like about having a job that has you outside all the time? Pat 07:43 Yeah. I mean, it's...I love that my job like requires me to be out there. It's like such a huge boost for mental health and everything. It's nice that I don't have to, like take time off for my family to go out and get those experiences. So that's really huge. Yeah, the outdoors is like a...I'm sure a lot of people that go out regularly have the experience where it's...even if you're not religious or anything but it's kind of got a spiritual element to it where you're just like out in it in the wilderness by yourself or even with a small group, and it's just refreshing, you know. It fills you up. So that's huge that I get to do that and I get paid for it and I get to--I think most of all--I get to help people get out to get into it, pointing out trails, conditions, things that. Yeah, it's really cool to have a job where I can, like materially help people on a day to day basis, you know? Like when I recommend a day hike and someone comes back like all sweaty but smiling and thanks you for it. You know, it's a good feeling. Margaret 08:52 Yeah, yeah. So you're like the human Alltrails[.com]? Is that what you're saying? Pat 08:57 Yeah, I've got a little bit of a beef with Alltrails. But that's maybe another conversation. Margaret 09:04 Wait, I want to hear because I've been using Alltrails Pat 09:07 I, and maybe this is just me, but I dislike how Alltrails chunks everything down into like little specific trails. So like, people come in and ask about like this one trail and it's got a name that I've never heard of and I'm like, "Oh, you're talking about like this section of the trail going up to here." Like, I'm much more like destination based. But that's just me, you know. People like it. And it's really great for finding new stuff. You have the maps right there, which is really great. Although I don't think it's as robust of a GPS tool as some of the other apps. But yeah, it's got some weird stuff with like...Some of the information isn't always accurate. So don't trust it 100% is what I'm getting at. Margaret 09:54 Yeah, I have noticed that, that it never takes me to the right place to start a trail... Pat 09:59 See. Margaret 09:59 Which, i feel like it's just trying to keep me honest. It's trying to make sure I learned how to read maps right. Because it takes me to the wrong spot. But it doesn't do it when I'm like in the backwoods as much, right? Like backwoods is an exaggeration of the kind of hikes I do. Okay, no, no, I mean, because one of the things that I almost dislike about it when I started using it is I'm like...It's kind of like when I'm driving, and I used to drive without a GPS, and drive across the country and all that. And now I drive with a GPS and I know exactly how many minutes are left in my drive. It's a little weird that I have brought that into my hiking life I admit. But, I do like that there have been a couple times where I've been hiking and I'm like, "I don't know where this fucking trail is. Where the fuck am I?" And it's been like, "You're in the wrong place." And I'm like, "Thank God." Pat 10:56 Yeah. Good job, mapping tool. Margaret 11:01 Yeah, exactly. Pat 11:03 It's amazing now how the phones have replaced so many tools in my back country pack. You know, it's like, my camera, it's my GPS, it's, you know, I listen to podcasts when I'm hike. It's...Yeah, it's kind of cool. Very Powerful. Margaret 11:19 Yeah, no, I like it too. I used to hike around with an SLR [Big camera]. And I'm glad I don't anymore. Margaret 11:20 That's a lot of weight. Yeah. Margaret 11:32 Yeah. Okay, so how does it affect...You talked about like...One of the things that you said about working outdoors that actually seemed really interesting to me that seems really cool is that you don't have to take time away from your family to do it because it is the thing...You're combining the thing that you want to be doing and the thing you do for work. How else does it affect your life, working outside or even specifically working for the park service? Pat 12:00 Yeah. So you know, I have a family. I have a wife and kid at home. So...but where I work is, you know, it's a good couple hours away from where my wife and kid are. So it can be a little bit challenging at times. And I'm really lucky that I've got the situation that I do because my wife has a decent job with all the benefits and everything and I'm a seasonal employee. So I'm working May to October, and then I get like...and so in the winter months it's kind of worked out where I'm able to be a stay at home dad and take care of my kiddo. Yeah, it's pretty...It works out really well. And as she's starting school, I'm just transitioning to homemaker, which is kind of working out pretty nicely. I just get to bake bread and do the laundry and all that fun stuff. It's pretty great. Yeah, it's a good setup. But in the summers, I ended up being away from my family. I go home on my weekends. But, you know, I spend four days at a time out here in the back country and in the office. And, you know, it kind of stinks, but I'm out in the woods and I get so much family time in the actual winter that it it kind of evens out. Yeah. Margaret 13:17 No, I mean, it sounds like it has advantages over almost every office job. Like even though my parents came home every day, both of them worked easily 12 hour days most days. Yeah. Pat 13:32 And my wife's job allows her to travel in the summers. So they go and visit family. Like they're off doing stuff. So you know, the couple months where they're off doing those kinds of things, you know, it's not terrible. It lets me go off and do my own thing on my days off. So it works out nicely. Margaret 13:49 Yeah. What would you say for like...I'm obviously...I presume you can only speak specifically to the park service or whatever. But do you know much about like other outdoors jobs or like what kind of like...What would you say to someone who's like thinking about working outdoors? Pat 14:06 Yeah. So I've worked closely with some forest service stuff, forest service people. I shared an office with them for a couple of years. So, you don't just have to work for the government to work in the outdoors. You know, there are a variety of jobs working for federal or state agencies. You know, there's wildland fire. There's jobs that take you outdoors if you're interested in like biology. You know, there's people that go out and survey frogs and that's their whole...Their whole job is they spend the summers at alpine lakes just like doing frog surveys, which is pretty cool. But, there's also some of the non government jobs,. You know, there's guiding services. They're the folks that take people up those mountains like Denali and Rainier. They're private companies. That's a job that you can get in there. And also--it's not necessarily in the outdoors but adjacent to it--you know, all those national parks have concessions, you know, private companies that run the hotels and the shuttle services and all of that stuff. So you don't even necessarily like have to be a park ranger to like work in Yosemite or something like that, you know? You can be like a line cook and still live in the valley and be able to go day hiking in those gorgeous places on your days off. So... Margaret 15:30 Okay, so I actually first ran across you because I put out a call saying I'm interested in talking to people who work with search and rescue. And I had initially thought of--and I'll probably interview some other people about this, and who knows what order they'll come out, so maybe you're hearing this after I've already put out some other ones--But I was originally thinking about volunteer search and rescue, right, and the the groups that do it in different regions, but you do search and rescue as part of your work. And I wanted to talk to you about that, about what search and rescue is like. And just to...the reason I got really interested in thinking about this was I was thinking a lot about how search and rescue is a form of mutual aid that our society puts together and how there's been like--I guess every now and then people try and charge people for search and rescue services and then everyone gets really upset about it. This is like something I'm completely outside of. I just read articles every now yeah and then. So I kind of wanted to ask you about the field of search and rescue and your work with it. And what that's...What's been involved? Pat 16:31 Yeah, um, I am kind of...you mentioned it, pretty lucky in the search and rescue world in that I get a paycheck for what I do. The Park Service is unique in that it's part of like our enabling legislation to provide for the safety of our visitors. So most other places, it just goes to the county sheriff. That's just the default, the County Sheriff. They don't have the budget to have a paid search and rescue team. And there's always, always always volunteers, people willing to step up to help. Which is, yeah, kind of amazing. And yeah, it's pretty great. We don't ever charge for anything. My park owns a helicopter and we don't charge for pulling people out of places and lifting them everywhere. Yeah, it's a pretty cool setup that we're able to just purely help and not at all worry about money or anything like that. It's pretty great. It's interesting because you see it a lot just in everyday like back country interactions with, you know, non search and rescue personnel to where, you know, you get injured in the back country and complete strangers are going to help you no matter what. Like, you see someone on the trail, they will help you in pretty much any sort of issue you have. I do love that about that sort of wilderness aspect is that like, everyone helps each other. It's kind of great. Margaret 18:08 That is a...I think that's a really important point. We had a guest recently who's a wilderness guide in Arctic regions and how that work actually led him to understanding anarchism and non-hierarchical organizing was that realization of like, of some of the things that come up in the back country. And so this thing that you're talking about, about how everyone helps you when you're in the backwoods, I think about...Like, I'm a real weird looking person by most of society's standards. And if I am in most...If I'm in the back country, if I am on a hike anywhere other than kind of like a weird city trail or something, no one looks at me weird. Everyone just like nods like they do everyone else. And it reminds me...[Interrupted] Pat 19:02 Everyone says hello... Margaret 19:02 Oh, go ahead. Pat 19:03 I was just...Yeah, it's amazing. People just say hi. They wave. It's...You drive a dirt road and everyone waves. It's interesting. Margaret 19:12 Yeah. And it reminds me a little bit about what I hear about, and what I've had minor experiences of, of what happens in disaster, which is, you know, the main theme of the show, right? And I wonder whether it's just because when we're far away from civilization and like we...the alienation of society, or civilization, or whatever the fuck--I don't know what we call this--but, you know, the alienation drifts away when we're in these places that don't have as many structures in place or like...What do you think it is? Why is it...If someone's passed out in the street in a city, everyone walks by them, and it's like, "Oh, that person didn't take care of themselves. So fuck them." right?" Pat 20:00 Yeah, it's...You're absolutely right. It's an interesting phenomenon. I think it has something to do with when you're away from that safety net of society, when you're away from like, "Oh, an ambulance is just a 911 call away. Someone else will do it. Someone else has done it." When you're out there and you're...You know that, "Oh, I haven't seen anyone in two hours and here's this person who's injured." You know that like you are the only one. I think that's part of it. And also like maybe a sense of, "Well, I would want someone to help me in this situation." And I you know, when we're in the woods we we see ourselves potentially in more risky situations. I don't know. It is... Margaret 20:48 No, that that bystander effect....Go Ahead. Pat 20:50 No, I'm just, you know, it's that or it's just, you know, when you're away from all of this modern everything we've built, people just are how they naturally are, which is helpful and kind. Margaret 21:04 Yeah. And, and that's what's so interesting to me about it is that like because people talk about like--a lot of preppers, especially like the center-right preppers and things--will talk about backwoods skills as the most important prepping skills. And overall, I don't think that that's true. Although, I think backwoods skills are great and I'm personally trying to work on mine. But maybe it's like, they're getting the wrong things out of it, right? Like, I mean, it's cool to know how to hit squirrels with axes and skin them or whatever. But knowing how...Like returning to this, "We take care of us" thing, returning to this sense of like, "We're in this together," maybe that's the more important backwoods skill. Pat 21:52 Honestly, it's wild. You have, you know, just the interaction you have when you're just far enough away, where you're not, you know, close enough to society. Everyone's...everyone's really friendly. Yeah, it makes my job really easy. Margaret 22:16 Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. I always have...Like, when I talk to park rangers of various types, they're usually fairly happy and not like smiling because they have to for work. Pat 22:28 Well, it's like a customer service job at its core, but you're talking with the crowd of people that are--like we were just talking about--gonna go out into the woods and say hi to every person they see. And they're like, going off and they're spending their free time to go do this. Like it's a very specific crowd of people. And it's very like, okay, yeah, it's gonna be...[Audio distortion with missing words] Very rarely do I ever have difficult interactions with people. Margaret 22:55 Yeah. So with search and rescue, I have a couple questions about it. Okay, one, the least...the most specific--sometimes I like to just ask the most specific question that's on my mind. Which is, so I carry...like when I hike I carry a Garmin inReach Mini 2. I carry an SOS device and a satellite communicator, right. And it's the most expensive thing on my fucking pack. It probably costs as much as the rest of my pack, but I like having it because I hike by myself. I hike by myself...well, with my dog. And this seems like overall a very good thing. I'm very glad I have it, but I keep wondering, especially like when compared with like smartwatches that can send SOS's and like now phones can send an SOS, are you all like buried under fake SOS calls now? Pat 23:46 So no. Not really. We haven't...I feel like it's just that like new iPhone I think that does that SOS, but I don't think we have enough of those out there just yet to really see a lot of that. But, the inReach is our--my goodness--like gold standard. Those things it's an absolute wonder how those streamline the search and rescue process and get people to the care that they need quick. Yeah, like there's numerous situations I can think of off the top of my head where an individual would have potential...would likely have have died if they didn't have an inReach. Yeah, that...I'm sold on those things. They're just the absolute best. And there's a different brands, not inReach specifically. There's a couple other varieties, you know. I'm not here to sell Garmin products or anything, but anything that you can press a button and call 911 is huge. Margaret 24:51 Right. They haven't sent us one for free. Okay, yeah, it's funny because ever since I bought the Garmin inReach I am on their like mailing list and so I get the like...like once a month they send a story of like, "This man survived because he...on a ledge for six hours because of his Garmin inReach 2." Yeah. And it's like clearly sales propaganda. But it's also true in this case. Pat 25:18 Just last year, we had an individual who was experiencing heat stroke, was getting like combative with the rescuers. They were in such a bad way. And if they had not had the inReach, they were like 15-20 miles from the nearest road. If they had not had that inReach for us to be able to get a helicopter there like quickly, it would have been a much different mission for us. So yeah, it's...Yeah, those things are amazing. Margaret 25:49 Yeah. So if you're listening, Garmin, send us free ones to give to our listeners.. Pat 25:59 Garmin kind of stinks because you have to pay a fee, like the monthly whatever, in order to pay for it. Like the best...The only like real benefit it has over some of the other ones is that you can send messages. But the other ones, I think Spot is a simple one, you just buy once and you don't have to pay things. You just like jam a button and it's good. Also most boats have them, so if you have access to a sailboat, you could probably find one Margaret 26:24 Okay, now that actually, that's funny. I mean, one of the things, the only thing I've ever used my Garmin for, right is the text communication and the...So for anyone who's listening, it's a small device. It's like, it looks like a miniature walkie talkie. It's smaller than my cell phone, but it's like chunky and it's a satellite communicator. I pay a monthly fee. I think it's like 10 bucks. You can pause it whenever you want. So, if you're not gonna go anywhere for six months, you can stop. And it gives you like basically a phone number that you can text anywhere you can see the sky in the world. And then you're paying, you know, 25 cents a text or I'm making that number up. I don't remember how much money it is. It's around that. And yeah, and so it gives you an SOS button, which calls for help and tells people where you are, or initiates communications with the responders. And it also just lets you...like it Bluetooths to your phone, or you can very slowly and annoyingly type on this like weird thing. It doesn't have a touchscreen. And so, one of the reasons I actually do like that model is that like, I don't want to interact with authorities unless I absolutely need to, right? And I absolutely will press the like "Please save my life button," right. But, there's a lot more situations where it's just like, "Oh, I'm gonna go be off grid for a week. It would be really nice to know..." Like, recently I was off camping in the backwoods. Well, not really the backwoods. I'm playing myself up. I was fucking...I was at Joshua Tree. I didn't have cell service and my aunt was in the hospital and I just wanted to know if anything happened to her. And so it was nice to know that I was able to be reached. Pat 28:20 Yeah. Yeah. And that's, that's huge. You know, I do a lot of solo travel too. And so it's nice to be able to--just because you can send your track as well. So you can send like, "Oh, this here, you can follow me on the website." And so like, you can just send a link and initiate your tracking. Like, "I'm gonna go off trail and scramble up this little peek here. Like, go ahead and follow along." It's kind of nice, nice reassuring, at least. But then you're connecting with that outside world, which takes away that part of the wilderness a little bit. Margaret 28:55 I know. I was gonna say that part of it. And I feel bad saying it, but like... Pat 29:00 It's true. Margaret 29:01 Everywhere has cell service now and I'm like not always glad. Pat 29:06 It's nice when you can't be...[Talking over each other] Margaret 29:10 Okay, well...Go ahead. Pat 29:11 I was just saying it's nice when you can't be reached. Margaret 29:12 Yeah. For anyone who is listening is wondering why the conversation...We both have shitty internet. So there's lag and that's what you all are listening to. Which, is the fun thing about two people in a rural situation and trying to record a podcast together. And so okay. So you go and you do search and rescue and I have two questions about that. I have more questions about that. Garmin was my like weird specific one. What are people doing? What are the main takeaways that you're learning that you see hikers or campers or all vehicle, all-terrain whatever...offroaders. Whatever. Like, what are people doing that puts them in these situations where they need rescue. Like what? What lessons can you impart to our audience from having seen people both live and die in bad situations in the woods. Pat 30:05 I think the biggest thing...So it kind of depends on where we are. If we're talking about like the close in day hiking trails, the folks that are just out for a vacation and like maybe doing a hike in flip flops. For that, we're looking at a lot of the basic like, you know, the dehydration, twisted ankles, things like that. You know, people that don't hike a lot are going out and suddenly doing a, what may be for them, a really strenuous hike. And so those sort of like, broken ankle dehydration, whatever medical issues, you know. Grandma doesn't really hike and she's suddenly climbing up some switchbacks and, you know, has some some sort of condition that that causes her to go down or something like that. So that's what happens kind of in the front country. In the back country, when you're like really a little bit deeper out into the wilderness, oftentimes, what gets people into the most trouble is they are overextending themselves. They are pushing past what they are really kind of capable of doing. Oftentimes, you get a lot of like the weekend warriors who maybe haven't done a ton of hiking, who really decide like, "I want to do this one hike, because I saw it on Instagram. And I've got to do it because it looks really cool." And it's way above where their skills are at. They maybe go on too hot of a day and they don't have enough electrolytes. And so we still get a variety of, you know, the whole gambit of issues that can arise when you're out in the back country. But usually, it all stems from pushing themselves beyond what they should do for their capabilities. Yeah, and then the occasional like, whoopsie daisies breaking an ankle. Margaret 31:57 So it's actually kind of the same thing as the front country? Pat 32:00 Yeah, I mean, you're right in a sense. I don't...Yeah, it's just more of...Yeah, you're right. It ultimately comes down to just going beyond what you're, you know, expecting yourself to go do more than what you're actually able to do. Yeah. Margaret 32:15 Yeah. Alright, so are the majority of things heat related and ankle related? Pat 32:22 Oh, yeah, those are the two big examples. Those are honestly, kind of the most often are lower leg injuries, you just you step wrong, and you mess up an ankle, and then dehydration, and like heat illnesses. That's like, probably a solid like 80% of what we see on a day-to-day basis. And those are all easily resolved. You know, they're the quick in and out a couple hours and it's done. Go in. Bring some electrolytes to someone. Bring them back up and you just walk out, make sure they're okay. Or if it's an ankle, quickly pop up there, and if they're close enough, give them some crutches and help them get out. Get into a litter and wheel them out if you need to. Margaret 33:06 Okay, so the reason that I'm like...the ankle thing. I watch way too much like hiking YouTube. I wear--just because I'm an old punk--I wear boots all day every day. I used to wear big stupid steel toed boots and hike in them. And now I wear like tactical boots because they have side zippers and they're lighter. And I like them more. Not aesthetically, honestly but for my life. But but all the hikers I know are all obsessed with trail runners. And everyone is like, "No one actually rolls an ankle. What are you talking about?" But you're telling me that people roll ankles? Pat 33:45 Yeah. The people that roll ankles are usually in boots, surprisingly enough. Margaret 33:51 Oh, shit. [Laughs a little manically] Pat 33:53 Yeah. If you're like using trail runners, oftentimes, you're like strengthening your ankles and allowing that movement in your ankle, you know, because like the trail runners usually coincides with lighter pack weight as well. So, you have less weight, less risk. We're able to actually like move with you rolling an ankle. So like, yeah, like I occasionally like step weird. My ankle twists. But like, I'm not locked into something where now all of my body weight is going to be over that. I can quickly adjust and like, be fine. But yeah, it's usually the boots that you're seeing the ankle injuries with. But like if it works for you, hike your own hike. I try not to judge people for their gear. But yeah, the trail runner cult is real and for good reason. Margaret 34:45 Yeah, you're a trail runner guy. Okay. Okay. Pat 34:48 I only wear boots in snow. Margaret 34:49 I mean, everyone I know who's actually an outdoors person. Pat 34:52 Yeah. That's trail runners. Margaret 34:55 Okay. Yeah, I mean, at least like, you know, I...my friend Carrot was on talking about ultralight hiking and thru-hiking and you can hear in that episode me slowly getting sold on light weight hiking. I've always been like a maximalist. Yeah. And then in my defense I'm like, well, I used to live out of a backpack. I like know all about carrying weight many many miles. I was 25 when I lived out of a backpack I am. There's that meme from Aqua Teen Hunger Force, "I'm a full 30 or 40 years old and I don't need this anymore." Yeah. Okay, okay. Pat 35:44 Join the future. Margaret 35:45 So you would overall suggest that lighter pack weight and trail runners might be a safer method than making sure that you carry everything that would be in a Dungeons and Dragons adventuring pack? Pat 35:59 Yeah, um, honestly, you know, people aren't used to usually carrying like 40 pounds on their back. Like, it's not something humans normally do on a day-to-day basis. Like 20 is like not that much different. And most people can move pretty much the same way if they've got 20. But with 40, you're like, you're lumbering. Much more prone to the trips and falls and not being able to place your feet quickly and nicely. So...But, okay, ultimately, it's, you know, there is a trade off of like you're carrying less stuff, probably less robust stuff, you're relying on doubling things up, multi-use stuff. So that's kind of like...It's a trade off. Margaret 36:48 No, and that's really interesting to me because like what we were talking about earlier about people taking care of each other in the backwoods, I was thinking about how camping and hiking and outdoor stuff, in a way, is like making a hobby out of a little apocalypse. You're going somewhere where you can only rely on what's around you, the people around you, and the stuff that you've brought, right. And so that leads me towards my like, vaguely maximalist...Like what I do now, is that like, my pack is a weird lightweight maximalism. I like still want...Like, I carry P-cord, right? And that's like not in an ultralight hike pack. But, I'm also not throug-hhiking. So I'm kind of like, whatever. Pat 37:39 Who cares? Margaret 37:42 But I don't carry like 50 foot of climb line, you know? And like, I'm not set to repel. I could repel in an emergency with my fucking p-cord. And it would be bad idea, but I would do it if I had to, right. Pat 37:56 Terrifying. Margaret 37:57 Yeah, no, I would double it up and then be terrified. Don't do...No one should listen to me. That's why I have experts on. Pat 38:04 Don't ever do that. [Laughing] Margaret 38:07 Okay, got it. All right. Everyone makes sure to repel with P chord. If you're not, you're not ultralight. So. Okay, so I expected the answer to be like, "What goes wrong in the back country?" I expected it to be like, people aren't prepared, right? Because I have this like, tendency to think like, "Preparedness!" and like... But what you're saying is that it's a different kind of prepared. People are overestimating their capacity rather than running into a problem that they don't have the wand of magic missiles that can solve or whatever. Pat 38:47 Most of the issues we see are not solved by some like gizmo that you carry. It's usually like your preparedness, your like physical ability, things like that, you know. Some little tool in your pack, like for the most part isn't going to prevent the issues that we see. Margaret 39:10 Right? Yeah. But sometimes they're fun. Like a walkie talkie. Pat 39:15 Oh, yeah, they're great. Margaret 39:22 Okay, okay. So while we're...Is most of what you're doing like day-to-day hanging out at a back country office or the office of...What do you do in your day-to-day? I should just ask that. Pat 39:39 So like about half of my days, I am behind the desk in the front country just chatting with people, pointing out day hikes. I issue permits for backpacking things like that. And I have my, I always got my SAR [Search and rescue] pack there ready in case something pops off that I can quickly go hustle up trail to help with. And then the other half of my time I am in the field, in the back country, hiking around, chatting with folks, making sure that they're not feeding the bears, and I get the point out cool flowers and frogs to people. It's pretty cool. Explore new routes. Try to find shortcuts into places for quick access for search and rescue teams. It's a cool job. Margaret 40:24 Does your back country pack include a full SAR setup? Pat 40:29 It does. Yeah, so I...But a full SAR setup isn't...I should correct that. It does not have a full SAR setup because I don't carry a helmet with me when I'm in the back country. And whenever we're on SAR, we've always got helmets. Margaret 40:46 Like, like the Team Wendy Bump helmets? Pat 40:48 Yeah, like climbing helmets because we're often like, doing off trail stuff in the dark in weird weather and they were getting way too many search and rescue personnel getting like head injuries. And the last thing you want out there is to like bonk your head on a tree. You know, head injuries bleed a lot. They're not usually scary, but like a cut on your forehead is like...looks scary. And so it's just too much to deal with in the back country. So we got to wear helmets, even when we're hiking for SAR. It's kind of silly. Margaret 41:20 So all hikers should wear helmets at all times. [Joking tone] Pat 41:23 Yes, that's what I'm saying. Margaret 41:25 Cool. Maximalism, that's what you're here to promote. So, how heavy is your back country pack? Pat 41:36 Yeah, um, I actually got it loaded up right here because I'm heading out after this. But it is...Right now. It's probably about 25 pounds-ish. And that's loaded for three days with overnight gear, food, extra SAR stuff. SAR stuff isn't that much more in addition. It's just a little bit more robust things. Like I carry a bunch of like hand warmers. I carry just extra radio batteries, a big heavy duty like tarp emergency blanket, and then just enough layers where I can like stand outside all night long and not need shelter. Other than that, eye pro, ear pro, gloves. [Eye and ear protection] Not much different that you really need. Any like specialized equipment is coming to you. Or you would start out from the trailhead with it. Margaret 42:36 I see. So it's not like you're carrying the larger first-aid kit? Pat 42:41 No, I mean, I've got a decent sized firstaid kit, but most of the time my first-aid kit is for me. And when I'm treating, when I'm helping someone, I'm using their first-aid kit, and I've got some extra stuff for like bigger injuries. But for the most part, I'm like if you're injured on the trail, I'm finding your first-aid kit and I'm going through that first. So it there's like a cool specialized band-aid that you like, make sure that you put that in your first-aid kit. Margaret 43:15 Okay, everyone needs a full suture kit. And everyone needs at least three Sam splints. [Joking tone] Pat 43:25 Sam splints are great, but they're just so big. Margaret 43:28 I know, they're never in my pack and I always sort of wish it was, but it never is. It doesn't...Even my maximalism doesn't put my Sam split in my my pack, but I'm not like a medic. Pat 43:41 It's funny you mentioned that suture kit. I actually have a story about someone carrying a suture kit in the wilderness and it working out well. Margaret 43:49 Oh, okay. [Surprised] Pat 43:50 They...It was in Boy Scouts and we were out hiking and one of the adults with us was a dentist and like way maximalist over packed. He had like an 85 pound pack, but he had a full suture kit. And lo and behold, someone fell and like gashed their knee open like incredibly deep. It was like a big bleed. There he was, sewing right up on trail. Margaret 44:13 Hell yeah. Pat 44:14 it was pretty cool. But I don't know if it was worth all of that extra weight. I mean, it was I guess but... Margaret 44:21 Yeah. I am so...I love talking to people about this because I'm so torn between my...like I mean the main pack that I carry, I just go day hiking most of the time right now and car camping. Currently, I used to basically backpack for a...not a living, but you know I lived out of a backpack, right? Pat 44:44 You're a professional backpacker. Margaret 44:47 Yeah. And now I just have like a day hiking pack and it has, you know, it probably has more stuff than I need, but I'm not pushing myself super hard on how long I'm hiking. I have a dog with me who provides a natural limit into how much I can hike. I can't push myself too hard. I actually don't go out too much in the summer, frankly, because my dog does not like the heat. He is a cold weather dog who loves the snow. I have bad news for him about the coming world. But, I am a little bit maximalist. And so I try. I'm trying so hard to pare it down. And it's so hard. But okay. All right. So....Oh, I have so much more I want to ask you about SAR. Do you know much...Like do you all ever work with volunteers when you do SAR? Like, do you have like...Okay, so most of the SAR calls you get are like someone like calls in and it's like, "I fell. My ankles fucked. I can't walk home," and whether it's someone on a switchback in the front country, or whether they're 20 miles in or whatever, do you like? Like, how often is it? It was...I mean, I don't know, it's almost like...I mean I'm not going to put this in the title, so it's not clickbait. But like, how often is it like, "Oh, shit, we have to get there in time, someone's dying, or like, you find corpses or all the gnarly intense stuff? Margaret 46:21 Okay. So, only hike with a helicopter. Bring a helicopter with you in your maximalist pack. [Dry joking] Pat 46:21 Usually...usually every day, there's something small happening. Small meaning like, "Oh, someone twisted their ankle a quarter mile trail from the visitor center." Every...it's usually probably three or four every summer, big ones, that have a big outcome, like where it ropes in a lot of folks and ends up being a kind of a big incident. Usually at three or four. But they can also resolve incredibly quickly too. So you can have a major thing that is from the time of knowing about, it's within an hour, it's completely resolved. You know, if you have a helicopter around and someone's like impaled with an ice axe or something like that, we can quickly get them out to a hospital like within an hour if we have if we have a rush. Yeah. Pat 47:27 Yes. Bring a helicopter. [Dry joking] Margaret 47:33 Okay, and then okay, so I want to ask--I guess I asked a version of this--but it's like okay, so you're mostly saying like, bring electrolytes and don't push yourself too hard. Are there other things that people like get wrong or even sort of get right about about backpacking or about just like spending a bunch of time in the outdoors whether it's day hikes or not? Pat 47:56 Yeah, I think what people can get wrong is that like tunnel focus on the destination of like, "I have to get here because Alltrails says that's a cool hike. And it says it's moderate. So I have to do it." That's the same light vein of thinking of like people pushing themselves. Where people get right is folks usually have like their ten essentials like people usually have like a backpack, and like a water bottle, and some way to treat water, or something like that. Most folks these days have like the navigation. They've got Alltrails on their phone. They've got ways to get away like get around. So we don't see too many folks getting lost these days, at least in my current park, which is kind of nice. Margaret 48:44 Yeah that's cool. Because I only read...Like I read some article about how the ski slopes have like...Local cops near a ski slope have stopped responding to the like Apple Watch "This person fell." Pat 49:00 Oh, gosh. Margaret 49:01 Because there's like something about skiing that sets it off on your watch or something, you know? Pat 49:09 Wow. Margaret 49:10 And so I like have mostly read about the like, here's how technology is like, making some things like more complicated and worse, but it makes sense to me that...Yeah, I don't know. It's easy to...I don't get lost anymore. My phone tells me where to go. I mean the closest I've come right as you you go hiking and you're like, "Shit, I didn't charge my phone enough," or like or I always assume that in my day pack, I have a spare battery. And then like one day I was like, "I apparently didn't bring my battery in my pack," you know? So I died. No, I clearly didn't. But no, it's cool to hear that people are getting lost less. And even I think that that also even applies to the like outdoors as mini apocalypse type thing, is that it helps to like know that there's certain...I mean, obviously we rely on certain technologies that may or may not work in different situations, right? Like if we're entirely reliant on cell service and cell service is no longer available or whatever. I am trying to think of what the, what the other thing is...I feel like there's...Okay, well, one, I want to ask you what water filter you use, what water treatment system you use? Pat 50:34 I use a Sawyer. Sawyer Squeeze. Put it right on my little water bottle. I like literally have my pack right here. Margaret 50:44 Yeah, no, I got really excited when you said that because I...I like, I make fun of how like preppers always, like, nerd out about gear. But it's just impossible not to. If you get involved in a hobby, or an interest, at some point, you're going to be like, "But what did you use?" Like, you know? So...But having a way to do it. Yeah, like Sawyer Squeeze...Sawyer is what I use when I lived off grid at the beginning of the pandemic and needed to filter all my water. Pat 51:16 They're great. They're cheap. Can buy them in any outdoor store. Kind of nice. Margaret 51:24 Yeah. All right. The sad question. Maybe the answer isn't sad. How have you seen, working at one place for 10 years...I assume...Whatever. I think you've been there for 10 years. Pat 51:36 I've worked in two different parks. But yeah, ten years. Margaret 51:39 Okay. How has climate change affected? Like you see the outdoors every year? What's been changing? And what are? What are people around you saying and thinking? Like, how seriously are people taking it? And what's that? Pat 51:58 Yeah, we all kind of collectively acknowledged that, especially like the group of seasonals that are like that I'm like working with, we all kind of acknowledge that, like, "Yeah, we get to be frontline watching these places go through the changes for, you know, climate change. We're going to be like, documenting these in our patrol reports of like, how the snow melt is different from year to year and what the new normals are. And it's kind of a weird, like, yeah, like, somebody's got to document it. And so we're, we're here for that. And it's yeah, it's, it's sad. It's like a collective like, "Oh, shit, we're gonna see this place, these places change. And we're going to, we're going to be documenting that, and recording that, and being that that data collection," at least from like, firsthand accounts, so...You know, it's tough when we're just, you know, we're just little patrol Rangers. We don't have really much power other than just communicating to people. That's one of the things I like to talk about. And I like point out things on a map is like, "Oh, yeah, do you see this, like this glacier was here. And now it's way up here. And it's receding this much every year." Yeah. So we have that power to communicate with people. But it's, it's a tough part of the job. Let's put it like that. Margaret 53:25 Yeah, it...I don't know. Climate grief is a....At some point we need and episode on climate grief. Because it's something that like we all sort of avoid thinking about, even when you're like doing preparedness. Like part of the point of doing preparedness, from my point of view is to like avoid thinking about like how things might go. What have been people's responses, like, do you run across...Are most people....? Because if you hang out on Twitter, anytime someone says, "Hey, this is the hottest day ever. This is a problem." You have like 50 blue checkmarks, who may or may not be real people, being like, "Everything's seasonal, you idiots." Like do you run across those people in like a 50/50 to regular....people who actually understand what's happening. Pat 54:11 No, the vast majority of people that I talk to about that stuff....First off, I'm talking usually to backpackers. So it's usually like a certain crowd of people, and like National Park backpackers as well. There's also like a selective crowd. And so most people are like acknowledge the reality of climate change and recognize like, "Oh my gosh, this is a changing landscape now." Occasionally, though, I get the person that is like, "Oh, climate change. That's...These glaciers, they always grow and shrink. What are you talking about?" And it's, it's a delicate manner, you know, to talk my way out of that one because I'm in uniform and everything. Margaret 54:58 Yeah, you don't just like pull a gun and chase them out of the park? [Joking] Pat 55:04 That'd be nice. I'd be like, "What are you doing here? Why are you here? Go away!" No, I have to be friendly and I don't know, show them pictures of wherever glaciers used to be. Margaret 55:16 No, that makes sense. No, it actually, I mean, I actually...I think if anything is gonna get us out of...Well obviously, there's no stopping climate change, right? Like there's mitigating the worst impacts, both in terms of the level of change and how that change affects us. But like, we're well past the like...We're like, actually in it now. You know? But I do think still that like getting people...Like changing people's minds, it still actually matters. And it's still actually...You know, there's this counter inflammation program that's designed to destroy the fucking Earth and we have to counter it. And okay, but I have a non climate change related question. And it's the last one I have on my list and then I'm gonna ask you if you have anything that I should have been asking you. What can folks...You deal with a lot of different people coming in, and you talked about different people overestimating their levels of ability and stuff. And sometimes, when I run across like outdoorsy stuff, there's like this macho culture of like, who can do the most vertical feet? And who can, you know, walk the furthest in the worst climate? It's actually almost cool that the weird macho thing about gear is to have us be lighter instead of heavier. But..which is the opposite of what I what I would expect it, you know? But, how can people of different levels of ability...like one of the things I like about...We didn't really talk about the problems at the Park Service. I think that that's just a thing? Pat 57:06 That's a whole conversation. Margaret 57:11 Right? You know, the Park Service comes from a very bad place. And so does all of the United States, right? And... Pat 57:19 Yes. Margaret 57:19 You know, like, you talked earlier about like private versus public. And, you know, and it's like, is giving yuppies a safe taste of the wilderness for a private company like more ethical than working for the federal government? I don't actually think so. I think everyone has to do different things in order to survive. But...Well, actually, I guess I'm now bringing that up. If you have anything you want to say about that we could talk about. You don't have to. Pat 57:38 I don't mind. Yeah, it's it's tough. You know, I love these places. It's not my land, though. You know, I'm on indigenous land. This is where I work. And it's, it is a tough aspect to kind of try to reconcile because I love my job. And these, I'm happy these places are protected. But also, like, I don't know, if...Like, you know, I'm white. Like, I don't know, if I should be the person in the back country telling people not to step on the wildflowers, you know? I'll do it because the job is there. And honestly, I couldn't imagine doing something else. But if that land got returned to the indigenous tribes, tomorrow, I would be all for it. You know, it's, it's at the edge. It's a tough one to reconcile. And they're starting to make moves. You know, just the other day, got to go through all of our little laminated maps and sharpie out one of the names for a lake because it used to be a really offensive name for Indigenous women. And now, it's not that anymore. It's like a local indigenous word for grandmother. And it's like, "Wonderful! I get to cross this out and write in the new name on this map." Like, that's fun. But also, you know, it's still not the tribe's land anymore. So, I don't know. It's tough. Margaret 57:44 No, it makes sense. And I mean, when I think about the National Park Service, I think about a lot of really negative things and then I also think about how like as when I was doing forest defense, the National Forest Service is part of the Department of Agriculture and national forests exist federally not to be protected but to be harvested. And any like people use, or nature use that--and people are nature but you know--that comes along the way is like a byproduct. Pat 59:05 Yeah. Margaret 59:09 You know? And yeah, that's the...It's weird because the park services are like, parts of them and more some of them more than others, are like theme park for nature. And there's like all kinds of complicated things. But it's also like...I remember at one point, I was in Yosemite, and I was like on a raised walkway to go see some falls. And I'm like, "You know, it fucking rules that these falls are wheelchair accessible." Like, that's cool. And it's interesting to me that there are people working to try and figure out how to balance, access and preservation. And so even though it comes from the....I don't know, whatever. I'm not trying to be like, "The park service is great," right? But it's just like, it's fucking complicated. Pat 1:00:44 Yeah, exactly. It's, you know, you make the parks really accessible and then that degrades the quality of the resource in the that solitude in that wilderness aspects if there's a parking lot with 1000 cars, or you know, 200 people on the trail. But also, like, it's great that people can get out to these places. That is the...Yeah, give a park ranger a beer and ask them, "How do you balance access versus preservation?" and that's a that's a whole podcast series right there. Margaret 1:01:18 Yeah, no, I would totally listen to a podcast series that both talks about the weird fucked up place that the parks come from, and like the way that they do all this bad stuff, but then also, they're complicated, like...I remember being in a national park run cave and this little kid was like, "Why can't we go in that part of the cave?" And the Ranger was like, "Because there's a bat sleeping." And the kid was like, "Well, what if I want to go in anyway?" And the Ranger looks at this like little kid and is like, "If it's between you and the bat, the bat gets the cave and you don't." Like, watching the entitlement strip away from this little kid's eyes and I'm like, yeah...I don't know. Well, okay, and this actually gets into the thing that I was going to ask as my question, which is, um, what can people different levels of ability do? Right? If you try to get involved in, in, not necessarily working outdoors but like, engaging with the outdoors and you're not like, totally able to just immediately--I mean, I can't fucking hike like I used to. I'm not trying to fucking go...Like, I walk seven miles and up 2000 feet, and I'm like, "I am fucking done." And my dog is like, "We are done." You know? But like, what can people do? Like...how make more accessible? Pat 1:02:44 The best way to really get started if you don't have that experience and really want to avoid that pitfall of like, "I'm going to do this hike because I saw a guide book that says I should do this hike. So I've got to do it." It's just be completely flexible with not getting to whatever the destination of the hike is, you know? Choose something small to start off with, you know, and only do a couple miles, and set a time to like turn around. Say like, "I want to hike for two hours and turn around in one hour," regardless of if you get to the destination or not. And really try to change your mindset from the point of the hike being to get to the viewpoint or to get to the cool cave or whatever, to being the point of the hike is to like stop and see the little things along the way. Some of favorite days are like cloudy, rainy days because I'm not looking for views on those days. I'm like, focused down on like how the rain and the water makes the moss look different or changes the coloration of the wood grain and things like that. You know, rocks look a lot cooler in crummy weather. So I think like changing your mindset to like, "I'm not hiking to get somewhere. I'm hiking to be in nature," can really change like your mentality of, "I don't have to push myself to get to that place. Because just around the corner, there might be a cool thing to look at," and like really sit and explore and like look closely. Margaret 1:04:19 Yeah, okay. Pat 1:04:20 That's my advice is to treat it like a walk in the woods before a trek. And you'll eventually get better and more fit and more experience to be able to push on and do more extreme stuff. Margaret 1:04:36 I like that a lot. Okay, well, that's, that's my questions. Is there like a question you wish I had asked you or like final thoughts or anything? Pat 1:04:44 No, I think the biggest thing is that folks should get out and hike and push yourself, but have a backup plan and make sure that you don't get in over your head. Drink your electrolytes. It's hot. Margaret 1:05:06 Yeah. What electrolyte do you rep? What do you pack? Pat 1:05:12 The gold standard is the that Liquid IV brand, just because it's like four times as much electrolytes than the other stuff. It's also really expensive. So like the knockoff store brand version of that, I've found it like a Safeway has been...It's been okay. Yeah, okay. Margaret 1:05:34 Alright. Well, everyone go outside, or don't, but probably do. See the world while it's still around? I gotta admit, that's been a big part of it for me is I'm like, "But I haven't seen everywhere." Pat 1:05:53 Yeah, I want to see it before that doesn't happen there anymore. Yeah, it's tough. Go touch really faraway grass. Margaret 1:06:08 Yeah. Well, do you have anything that you want to promote or push? Or do you want people to follow you on the internet or support any given program or thing? Pat 1:06:20 I wish I had thought about this before recording, but I don't...I don't like having an online presence. So don't try to find me online. You can't. But yeah, go for a hike. And touch some grass that's really far away. That's my advice. That's what I'm gonna plug. Margaret 1:06:41 Hell yeah. Margaret 1:06:47 Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please tell people about it. Word of mouth is the main way that podcasts spread. The other way is algorithmically. And, you can influence those algorithms by liking and subscribing and commenting and doing all that fucking bullshit that makes me very sad to have to point out is true. You can also support making this podcast happen. Several people make--well, not their living. It doesn't don't come out well enough for that. But several people make some part of their living by making this happen, including our audio engineer and our transcriptionist. And we really appreciate your support. And you can support us on Patreon at patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness, because this is published by Strangers in a Tangled Wilderness, which is an anarchist publishing collective that puts out podcasts, and zines, and books, and all kinds of stuff. In particular, I want to thank Lord Harken, Trixter, Princess Miranda, BenBen, Anonymous, Funder, Jans, Oxalix, Janice & O'dell, Paige, Aly, Paparouna, Milicia, Boise Mutual Aid, theo, Hunter, Shawn, S.J., Paige, Mikki, Nicole, David, Dana, Chelsea, Cat J., Staro, Jenipher, Eleanor, Kirk, Sam, Chris, Michaiah, and Hoss the Dog. Always Hoss the Dog. And there's like new names on that list since the last time I read that and that makes me really happy. There's a lot that we are trying to do as a collective that your support allows us to do and it will be cool. And you'll be glad. Maybe. I hope so. Anyway, good luck with the apocalypse. I hope you all are building resilient communities and/or learning how to make hard tack. Maybe both. Talk to you soon. Find out more at https://live-like-the-world-is-dying.pinecast.co

Smokey Bear has been an iconic symbol from the National Forest Service that we can all recognize. He has served as a staple in fire prevention safety education for generations. However, not only is Smokey's origin story dark, but he was also once a living, breathing, American Black Bear.  Stick around for the end of the episode as Cassie's partner Al, a long time wildland firefighter, shares his experiences in the field and tips on fire prevention. We love our National Parks and we know you do too but when you're out there, remember to enjoy the view but watch your back. Please take a moment to rate and subscribe from wherever you're listening to NPAD! Become part of our Outsider family on Patreon  or Apple Subscriptions to gain access to ad-free episodes, bonus content, and more. Follow our socials Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. To share a Trail Tale, suggest a story, access merch, and browse our book recommendations - head over to our website. Thank you so much to our partners, check them out! Microdose Gummies: Use code NPAD to get free shipping and 30% off your first order. Beam: Use our link and code NPAD for up to 40% off.   Lume Deodorant:  New customers GET $5 OFF a Lume Starter Pack with code NPAD. Resources: USDA, Smokey Bear, Smokey Bear (2),  Smithsonian, History, 

When Congress raised the debt ceiling, it also approved a provision that cleared the way for construction of the Mountain Valley Pipeline.  The measure told federal agencies like the National Forest Service to approve construction permits within 21 days and blocked federal courts from getting in the way.  Builders of the MVP immediately asked judges […]

Do you feel optimistic about the future? When a class of 200 graduates were asked to raise their hand if they felt optimistic about the future - No one did. Are you surprised?This week we speak to Matthijs Schouten, the biologist, ecologist, lecturer and author of Nature's mirror; the image of nature in a cultural-historical perspectiveMatthijs G.C. Schouten B.Sc., M.Sc. D.Sc. studied biology and comparative religion at the University of Nijmegen and Celtic studies at the University of Amsterdam (the Netherlands).He has worked as lecturer at the University of Nijmegen and as ecological project leader for the Wildlife Service (Dublin). He was the leader of the international campaign for the conservation of Irish bogs. Since 1992 he is senior ecological officer at the National Forest Service of the Netherlands; since 1995 he also is a visiting professor of nature and landscape conservation at University College Cork and University College Galway (Ireland); in 1999 he furthermore accepted the chair of restoration ecology at Wageningen University (the Netherlands).In 1990 he was awarded the International Award for Conservation Merit by the World wide Fund for Nature and in 1992 the National University of Ireland granted him a honorary doctorate.He has published widely in the fields of ecology and nature philosophy. His latest book Spiegel van de natuur; het natuurbeeld in cultuurhistorisch perspectief (Nature's mirror; the image of nature in a cultural-historical perspective) has formed the basis for the exhibition World Nature Art in the Nieuwe Kerk in Amsterdam.In this episode we explore the meaning of nature, how we have become detached and obsessed with the individual, driven by ego, how we need to reinstate rituals of contemplation, the power we all posses to make change, the importance of enchantment, connection and falling in love. “Unless we accept how destructive we can be we can't move ahead constructively.”We loved this episode so much, Dave has already booked a trip to have lunch with Matthijs!Enjoy!Lots of Love,Dave & SteveThis episode is sponsored by Vivobarefoot Footwear. Vivobarefoot Footwear have given our listeners an exclusive 15% discount when you enter the code HAPPYPEAR15 Genuinely these are the only shoes you will see Dave & Steve wearing!Produced by Sean Cahill & Sara Fawsitt Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We've got a fun conversation with award-winning journalist and author, Julie “Jules” Butler. Jules was a Connecticut pearl-wearing, suburban working mom, who at the age of 50 decided that life was just too short. She left her east coast life and moved to Jackson Hole, WY, where she met the love of her life! Jules and her husband Chris have spent the last two summers living in a 200 square foot camper as Camping Ambassadors for the National Forest Service at Curtis Canyon in the Bridger-Teton National Forest and got married there in 2022. Her book, Cowboys and Campers detail her experiences as a volunteer.     Find out More about Jules: IG: @forestfairies2022   Bridger-Teton Ambassadors  Cowboys and Campers: Tales from a Bridger-Teton National Forest Camping Ambassador   Mix It Up with Us  Terri on Instagram  Melissa on Instagram  Join the Mixing Up Midlife Discussion Facebook Group Email Us: MixingupMidlife@gmail.com  Visit the Mixing Up Midlife website Maybe Find Us on TikTok

This week on How We Got Here, Steph and Rachel talk to the incomparable Ben Cosgrove. Ben is a composer-performer whose music explores themes of landscape, place, and environment. Ben has performed in every U.S. state except for Delaware (some day!), collaborated with groups ranging from rock bands to research scientists, and held residencies and fellowships with institutions including the National Park Service, the National Forest Service, and NASA. The gang talks piano lessons, flutists, and not being deterred when your college declines your proposal for an interdisciplinary major. You can follow Ben on Instagram and Twitter. Check out his latest solo album, “The Trouble with Wilderness,” and his latest collaboration with Max García Conover, “Vol. One.”And if you want to catch Ben live, check out his tour dates here.

During this episode, Jenna sits down with her friend Ben Cosgrove for a chilly but lively chat along the Maine coastline. Ben is a traveling composer-performer whose music explores themes of landscape, place, and environment. He has performed in every U.S. state except for Delaware, collaborated with groups ranging from rock bands to research scientists, and held residencies and fellowships with institutions including the National Park Service, the National Forest Service, Harvard University, Middlebury College, the Schmidt Ocean Institute, NASA, and the Sitka Center for Art & Ecology. Tune in to learn more about his creative process, the evolution of his work, and hear one of Jenna's favorite pieces titled "The Contour and Shape of the Ground".

This butterfly is excited to be speaking with Jeffrey H. Ryan. Jeff is passionate about the outdoors and the conservation of public land, whose work has been cited in Forbes, USA Today, and other notable publications. He is the author of Appalachian Odyssey (2016), Blazing Ahead (2017), and a new book This Land Was Saved for You and Me: How Gifford Pinchot, Frederick Law Olmsted, and a Band of Foresters Rescued America's Public Lands that came out in September 2022 tells the story of how America's public lands—our city parks, national forests, and wilderness areas—came into being can be traced to a few conservation pioneers and proteges who shaped policy and advocated for open spaces. Some, like Frederick Law Olmsted and Gifford Pinchot, are well known, while others have never been given their due. Jeffrey Ryan covers the nearly century-long period between 1865 (when Olmsted contributed to the creation of Yosemite as a park and created its management plan) to the signing of the Wilderness Act of 1964. Olmsted influenced Pinchot, who became the first head of the National Forest Service. In turn, Pinchot hired the foresters who became the founders of The Wilderness Society and creators of the Wilderness Act itself. This history emphasizes the cast of characters —among them Theodore Roosevelt, Bob Marshall, Benton MacKaye, Aldo Leopold, and Howard Zahniser—and provides context for their decisions and the political and economic factors that contributed to the triumphs and pitfalls in the quest to protect public lands. In researching the book, Ryan traveled to the places where these crusaders lived, worked, and were inspired to take up the cause to make public lands accessible to all. In this episode, you will hear about the history of American forests, what he learned about Olmsted, Pichot, Jeff's hiking experience, and more. Some notes... More about 1treellion & Jeff Ryan. To support planting all over the world, please check out this link. The great music is credited to Pixabay.

Darkness Radio presents Supernatural News/Parashare: That Strange Thing in the Sky Just Drew What?! Edition w/ Beer City Bruiser! Fresh off of Halloween, but the stories aren't less weird, less scary, or ;less goofy! Cruiser and Bruiser have gathered these Supernatural stories from around the world this week just for you! This week, The news is out and the jig is up! A bombshell UFO report will be covered up by the US Government because it believes the people are "too stupid"!,  Bigfoot is caught on video!(but there's ALWAYS a critic...), The National Forest Service is telling people to "quit hittin' the Toad... man...", and an Air Force plane flies in a very specific pattern... but claims it was an accident!!! REALLY!!!    Darkness Radio hit a million downloads on Audioboom just in the period between 6/15-10/15/22! To celebrate, we are giving away a "One in a Million" prize pack and you can become a member of the Darkness Radio Million-Airs Club!  Several winners will get 2nd prizes, but only one person will win the grand prize pack!  put the subject line, "I want to be in the Darkness Radio Million-Airs Club" in the subject line of an email to tim@darknessradio.com and you are entered to win! No Purchase Necessary! one entry per person, per household. Must be 18 or older to qualify.  Find out where Beer City Bruiser is holding his breath and needlepointing near you: https://twitter.com/bcbwinchester #paranormal  #supernatural  #metaphysical  #paranormalpodcasts  #darknessradio  #timdennis #beecitybruiser #ringofhonorwrestling #supernaturalnews  #parashare  #ghosts  #spirits  #spectres #hauntings #hauntedhouses #haunteddolls #demons #deliverances #exorcisms #angels #guardianangels #spiritguides #Psychics #mediums #tarot  #ouija  #Aliens  #UFO #UAP #Extraterrestrials #alienhumanhybrid #alienabduction #alienimplant #Alienspaceships #projectbluebook #disclosure #shadowpeople #AATIP #DIA #Cryptids #Cryptozoology #bigfoot #sasquatch #yeti  #abominablesnowman #ogopogo #lochnessmonster #chupacabra #beastofbrayroad #mothman #Artificiallife #artificialintelligence #AI #space-X #NASA #ISS  #Satanists #thechurchofsatan #TheSatanicTemple  #CIA #FBI #conspiracytheory #zombies #neardeatheexperience #quantumuniverse #multiverse #mandelaeffect 

Darkness Radio presents Supernatural News/Parashare: That Strange Thing in the Sky Just Drew What?! Edition w/ Beer City Bruiser! Fresh off of Halloween, but the stories aren't less weird, less scary, or ;less goofy! Cruiser and Bruiser have gathered these Supernatural stories from around the world this week just for you! This week, The news is out and the jig is up! A bombshell UFO report will be covered up by the US Government because it believes the people are "too stupid"!,  Bigfoot is caught on video!(but there's ALWAYS a critic...), The National Forest Service is telling people to "quit hittin' the Toad... man...", and an Air Force plane flies in a very specific pattern... but claims it was an accident!!! REALLY!!!    Darkness Radio hit a million downloads on Audioboom just in the period between 6/15-10/15/22! To celebrate, we are giving away a "One in a Million" prize pack and you can become a member of the Darkness Radio Million-Airs Club!  Several winners will get 2nd prizes, but only one person will win the grand prize pack!  put the subject line, "I want to be in the Darkness Radio Million-Airs Club" in the subject line of an email to tim@darknessradio.com and you are entered to win! No Purchase Necessary! one entry per person, per household. Must be 18 or older to qualify.  Find out where Beer City Bruiser is holding his breath and needlepointing near you: https://twitter.com/bcbwinchester #paranormal  #supernatural  #metaphysical  #paranormalpodcasts  #darknessradio  #timdennis #beecitybruiser #ringofhonorwrestling #supernaturalnews  #parashare  #ghosts  #spirits  #spectres #hauntings #hauntedhouses #haunteddolls #demons #deliverances #exorcisms #angels #guardianangels #spiritguides #Psychics #mediums #tarot  #ouija  #Aliens  #UFO #UAP #Extraterrestrials #alienhumanhybrid #alienabduction #alienimplant #Alienspaceships #projectbluebook #disclosure #shadowpeople #AATIP #DIA #Cryptids #Cryptozoology #bigfoot #sasquatch #yeti  #abominablesnowman #ogopogo #lochnessmonster #chupacabra #beastofbrayroad #mothman #Artificiallife #artificialintelligence #AI #space-X #NASA #ISS  #Satanists #thechurchofsatan #TheSatanicTemple  #CIA #FBI #conspiracytheory #zombies #neardeatheexperience #quantumuniverse #multiverse #mandelaeffect 

Last fall, we opened a brand-new exhibit called Fire! Science & Safety, which invites our guests to explore Casa Del Fuego, Apartment 911 as a fire danger detective, seeking out fire and burn hazards to make their families, pets, and homes safer—both inside the home, as well as outside threats like wildfires.It's been pretty rainy in California lately, so wildfires have largely faded from the headlines. But throughout 2020 and 2021, we heard about one giant catastrophic megafire after another. It seemed like our state was always burning.Ever wonder why California has so many wildfires?There are many factors at play here—climate change, drought, dead trees, longer fire seasons—but we can also learn a lot about what's happening today by looking at our past. We talked to Dr. Jared Dahl Aldern (@JaredDahlAldern), an environmental historian and a fire practitioner, who has a wealth of experience researching the history of fire in California, as well as learning from and working with Indigenous people who use fire to take care of the land. He walked us through some important events in our state's history—from the Gold Rush to the formation of the National Forest Service—that help explain why there's so much fire today.Have a question you've been wondering about? Send an email or voice recording to everwonder@californiasciencecenter.org to tell us what you'd like to hear in future episodes.Follow us on Twitter (@casciencecenter), Instagram (@californiasciencecenter), and Facebook (@californiasciencecenter).Support the show

Today - we're talking with Colorado Sun outdoor reporter and co-founder Jason Blevins about a couple different lawsuits. One is between some private developers and the National Forest Service. Another is between Vail Resorts and the city of Vail.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

1398: Monday, June 13, 2022   Brady Smith from NFS discusses NAZ fires. Rob Wilson breaks down new gun control push.    Jeff gives updates on Northern Arizona fires 0:00-12:44 Brady Smith from the National Forest Service 12:45-30:28 gives details on fires around Flagstaff Rob Wilson discusses inflation 30:29-43:25 Rob Wilson breaks down the new push for gun control 43:26-66:45 Jeff's final thoughts 66:46-74:12

June 10, 2022--Host Joy LaClaire talks with psychologist and environmentalist, Joseph Scalia III (no relationship to Antonin Scalia), about the problems of corporate funded Big Green organizations using the collaboration process with The National Forest Service at the expense of wilderness protection.

On this episode we're going to the world of the covert operations of the government. Clay was able to get an interview with the undercover National Forest Service law enforcement agent that worked a sting operation on Louie Dale Edwards in Arkansas in the 1990s. We go into the details of the operation, how it went down and what caused it to fail. Secondly, Clay talks with Dr. Daniel Rupp about the anthropological reasons why western culture loves outlaws. It all stems back a general mistrust of power and a desire for the common man to stick it to the system. Clay finally gets his questions answered in his personal exploration of why we're endeared to outlaws. This may be the coolest Bear Grease Podcast yet. Connect with Clay and MeatEater Clay on Instagram MeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and Youtube Shop Bear Grease Merch See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Black Walnut (Juglans nigra) is a tree well-known for its ability to negatively affect other plants growing nearby, a phenomenon known as allelopathy. But is Black Walnut really as allelopathic as the Internet would have you believe? In this episode, the guys go nuts: delving into this question and many other facets of the fascinating (and tasty?) Black Walnut, including and on-air tasting of Black Walnut Syrup. Enjoy! This episode was recorded on May 11, 2022 at the Beaver Meadow Audubon Center in North Java, NY.Episode NotesThank you to listener Mark Carroll for giving us the idea for this episode and providing the paper on which much of it was based.Is Black Walnut wind pollinated? Bill mentioned during the episode that he thought the flowers were insect pollinated. He was WRONG! According to Floral Biology And Pollination Of Eastern Black Walnut, a publication by the National Forest Service, “Walnut trees are wind-pollinated and classified as monoecious; male and female flowers are on the same tree, but separated from each other.” Bill stands by his assessment, however, that the distinctive, seldom-seen flowers are worth checking out. This page provides some nice pictures; scroll down to see both the male and female blossoms. The female flowers look like milkweed pods with a sea anemone stuck on top!What is the correct measurement of diameter at breast height (DBH)? Diameter at breast height, or DBH, is a standard method of expressing the diameter of the trunk or bole of a standing tree. Tree trunks are measured at the height of an adult's breast; in many countries, DBH is measured at approximately 1.3 m (4.3 ft) above ground, but in the US, DBH is typically measured at 4.5 ft (1.37 m) above ground. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diameter_at_breast_height Does Steve know about honeysuckles? Steve claimed that honeysuckles (Lonicera sp.) with a hollow pith are not native to eastern North America and that the ones without a hollow pith are native. According to Iowa State University, “Twigs of all species can be hollow. However, the twigs of native species tend to be less hollow with a white pith whereas the exotic species are more obviously hollow with a brown pith.”Are there other plants with a chambered pith? Yes! Black Tupelo (Nyssa sylvatica) is another species, unrelated to walnuts, that has a chambered pith.What does microcarpa mean? During their discussion of other walnut species, Bill mentioned the Little Walnut (Juglans microcarpa) , and Steve wondered what “microcarpa” means. The answer? Small fruit.LinksThe Get Crackin' Nut Cracker SupportThe Field Guides PatreonMake a onetime Paypal donation.The Field Guides Merch ShopOur SponsorGumleaf Boots, USAPicture CreditThank you to Always Wandering Art (Website and Etsy Shop) for providing this episode's artwork, as well as the art for many of our previous episodes! Works CitedChalker-Scott, L., 2019. Do Black Walnut Trees Have Allelopathic Effects on Other Plants?. Washington State University Extension.Marking, L.L., 1970. Juglone (5-hydroxy-1, 4-naphthoquinone) as a fish toxicant. Transactions of the American Fisheries Society, 99(3), pp.510-514.Willis, R.J., 2000. Juglans spp., juglone and allelopathy. Allelopathy J, 7(1), pp.1-55.Page, Teri. Homestead Honey, https://homestead-honey.com/beyond-maple-syrup-tapping-black-walnut-trees/. Accessed 5 Apr. 2009.

Every year sudden and unexplained disappearances are happening in the National Forest. Refusing to even look into it, the National Forest Service won't even keep a tally of those who have gone missing. Why is that? What are they hiding? Where are the people going? Who's taking them? Why are there random staircases to nowhere popping up in National Forests worldwide? Will we ever really know?Email us at: downtherh@protonmail.comShow Notes:https://adventure.howstuffworks.com/survival/wilderness/10-mysterious-disappearances-in-national-parks.htmhttps://www.syracuse.com/state/2018/02/from_the_adirondacks_to_sacramento_how_missing_skier_told_deputies_he_crossed_th.htmlhttps://mysteriousuniverse.org/2019/11/the-missing-411-some-strange-cases-of-people-spontaneously-vanishing-in-the-woods/https://slappedham.com/stairs-woods-phenomenon/https://www.reddit.com/r/nosleep/comments/3iocju/im_a_search_and_rescue_officer_for_the_us_forest/https://signalhorizon.com/staircases-in-the-woods-explained-are-there-really-stairs-to-nowhere/https://www.canammissing.com/page/page/8396197.htm

Every year sudden and unexplained disappearances are happening in the National Forest. Refusing to even look into it, the National Forest Service won't even keep a tally of those who have gone missing. Why is that? What are they hiding? Where are the people going? Who's taking them? Why are there random staircases to nowhere popping up in National Forests worldwide? Will we ever really know? Email us at: downtherh@protonmail.com Show Notes: https://adventure.howstuffworks.com/survival/wilderness/10-mysterious-disappearances-in-national-parks.htm https://www.syracuse.com/state/2018/02/from_the_adirondacks_to_sacramento_how_missing_skier_told_deputies_he_crossed_th.html https://mysteriousuniverse.org/2019/11/the-missing-411-some-strange-cases-of-people-spontaneously-vanishing-in-the-woods/ https://slappedham.com/stairs-woods-phenomenon/ https://www.reddit.com/r/nosleep/comments/3iocju/im_a_search_and_rescue_officer_for_the_us_forest/ https://signalhorizon.com/staircases-in-the-woods-explained-are-there-really-stairs-to-nowhere/ https://www.canammissing.com/page/page/8396197.htm --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/nwczradios-dtrh/message

Ryan Ranch area was homesteaded in the 1890s. In the 1920s a berm along the Deschutes River was constructed to keep the river from flooding valuable pasture land. Prior to this, the area historically functioned as an emergent freshwater marsh that was connected to surface flows from the Deschutes River. In the early 2010s, the meadow was reconnected to the Deschutes River through a restoration project. In this podcast, we talk with Peter Sussmann of the National Forest Service to learn more about the project and its impacts on wildlife. ------------------------------- This podcast is produced by Dirty Freehub, a nonprofit organization that publishes hand-curated (and great!) gravel cycling route guides. Our mission is to connect gravel cyclists to where they ride through stories about culture, history, people, places, and lands with the hope that they will become involved as advocates, volunteers, or donors with organizations that protect and preserve recreation spaces. Our Podcast Channel / The Connection Our Route Guides / Dirty Freehub Our Ask / Donate

Seasonal closures don't always end when they're supposed to: it pays to double check before heading out, especially this time of year.  Also, spring break is coming: do you know where you'll be spending it?For more on Seasonal closures (and reopenings) in National Forests, check  the appropriate National Forest Service website and look under "Events & News"/"Alerts & Notices".GeorgiaNorth CarolinaVirginiaTennesseeSouth CarolinaWest VirginiaInterested in taking the family outdoors for spring break? See what your local State Park has anything happening by checking here:GeorgiaVirginiaNorth CarolinaSouth Carolina TennesseeWest Virginia

Photo:  Oil and Gas - All States, National Forest Service photograph. #Ukraine. Musk calls for more American oil and gas.  Elizabeth Peek @lizpeek  @TheHill, Fiscal Times and Fox News https://www.ft.com/content/1ebcdfc9-d925-4da7-ad01-1bfdacfb23ad

Last fall, we opened a brand-new exhibit called Fire! Science & Safety, which invites our guests to explore Casa Del Fuego, Apartment 911 as a fire danger detective, seeking out fire and burn hazards to make their families, pets, and homes safer—both inside the home, as well as outside threats like wildfires.It's been pretty rainy in California lately, so wildfires have largely faded from the headlines. But throughout 2020 and 2021, we heard about one giant catastrophic megafire after another. It seemed like our state was always burning.Ever wonder why California has so many wildfires?There are many factors at play here—climate change, drought, dead trees, longer fire seasons—but we can also learn a lot about what's happening today by looking at our past. We talked to Dr. Jared Dahl Aldern (@JaredDahlAldern), an environmental historian and a fire practitioner, who has a wealth of experience researching the history of fire in California, as well as learning from and working with Indigenous people who use fire to take care of the land. He walked us through some important events in our state's history—from the Gold Rush to the formation of the National Forest Service—that help explain why there's so much fire today.Have a question you've been wondering about? Send an email or voice recording to everwonder@californiasciencecenter.org to tell us what you'd like to hear in future episodes.Follow us on Twitter (@casciencecenter), Instagram (@californiasciencecenter), and Facebook (@californiasciencecenter).Support the show (https://CaliforniaScienceCenter.org/support)

Photo:   Instrumentation: Climatic - California, National Forest Service photograph. CBS Eye on the World with John Batchelor CBS Audio Network @Batchelorshow Terry Anderson #Unbound. The complete, forty-minute interview. April 6, 2021 Adapt and Be Adept: Market Responses to Climate Change.  Paperback – April 1, 2021. by Terry Anderson  (Editor) https://www.amazon.com/Adapt-Be-Adept-Responses-Climate/dp/0817924558/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&qid=1619395663&refinements=p_27%3ATerry+Anderson&s=books&sr=1-1 How can markets help us adapt to the challenges of climate change? The editor Terry L. Anderson brings together this collection of essays featuring the work of nine leading policy analysts, who argue that market forces are just as important as government regulation in shaping climate policy—and should be at the heart of our response to helping societies adapt to climate change. Anderson notes in his introduction that most current climate policies such as the Paris Agreement require hard-to-enforce collective action and focus on reducing or mitigating greenhouse gases rather than adapting to their negative effects. Adaptive actions can typically deliver much more, faster and more cheaply than any realistic climate policy. The authors tackle a range of issues: the hidden costs of renewable energy sources, the political obstacles surrounding climate change policy, insurance and financial instruments for pricing risk of exposure to the effects of climate change, and more. Reliance on emerging renewable energies and a carbon tax are not enough to prevent the effects of global warming, they argue. We must encourage more private action and market incentives to adapt to a rapidly changing climate.

Kevin talks about his sixth acclaimed book of poetry, inspired by his days as an elite firefighter for the National Forest Service. He also explains why he shies away from the "P" word. https://kevingoodan.com/

Today we're talking about Christmas trees. Specifically, everything you need to know about the program run by the National Forest Service, where you can buy a permit online and head out to your national forest to cut down your own Christmas tree. In this episode, we share our Montana experience in December as we wandered through Flathead National Forest with a permit in hand, looking for that perfect Christmas tree for our stay in a national forest cabin.   Please subscribe to The Dear Bob and Sue Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you like to listen, and if you've enjoyed our show, please leave us a review or rating on Apple Podcasts. Five-star ratings help other listeners find our show.   Follow us on Instagram at @mattandkarensmith, on Twitter at @mattandkaren, on Facebook at dearbobands, or check out our blog at www.mattandkaren.com.   To advertise on The Dear Bob and Sue Podcast, email us at mattandkarensmith@gmail.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Prescott National Forest is excited to announce they will be holding an Employment Workshop & Career Expo on November 6, 2021. The Employment Workshop & Career Expo is an opportunity for job seekers to meet with representatives from a variety of programs to learn about opportunities with the Prescott National Forest as well as other locations around the country. The U.S. Forest Service will be accepting applications for the 2022 filed season from November 5-12, 2021. Positions are available in multiple fields including fire, recreation, natural resources, timber, engineering, visitor services, and archaeology. Interested citizens can visit anytime during the... For the written story, read here >> https://www.signalsaz.com/articles/prescott-national-forest-service-holding-employment-workshop-and-career-expo/

The wildfire season started early in 1910 in the western U S because the winter of 1909–1910 and the spring and summer of 1910 were extremely dry, and the summer sufficiently hot to have been described as "like no others." The drought resulted in forests that were teeming with dry fuel, which had previously grown up on abundant autumn and winter moisture. Hundreds of fires were ignited by hot cinders flung from locomotives, sparks, lightning, and backfiring crews. By mid-August, there were 1,000 to 3,000 fires burning in Idaho, Montana, and Washington. August 20, 1910 brought hurricane-force winds to the interior northwest, whipping the hundreds of small fires into one or two much larger blazing infernos. Such a conflagration was impossible to fight; there were too few men and supplies. The National Forest Service was only five years old at the time and unprepared for the possibilities of the dry summer or a fire of this magnitude, though all summer it had been urgently recruiting as many men as possible to fight the hundreds of fires already burning, many with little forestry or firefighting experience. Earlier in August President Taft had authorized the addition of military troops to the effort, and 4,000 troops, including seven companies from the U S Army's 25th Regiment known as the Buffalo Soldiers, were brought in to help fight the fires burning in the northern Rockies. The arrival of the Black regiment of Buffalo Soldiers helped stem the tide for a while, but they were not enough and Smoke from the fire was said to have been seen as far east as Watertown, New York and as far south as Denver Colorado. It was reported that at night, five hundred miles out into the Pacific Ocean, ships could not navigate by the stars because the sky was cloudy with smoke. The fire burned after the strong winds caused those numerous smaller fires to combine into a firestorm of unprecedented size. It killed 87 people, mostly firefighters, destroyed numerous structures, including several entire towns, and burned more than three million acres of forest with an estimated billion dollars' worth of timber lost. It is believed to be the largest, although not the deadliest, forest fire in U.S. history. The extensive burned area was approximately the size of the state of Connecticut.  In the aftermath of the fire, the Forest Service received considerable recognition for its firefighting efforts, including a doubling of its budget from Congress. The outcome was to highlight firefighters as public heroes while raising public awareness of national nature conservation. The fire is often considered a significant impetus in the development of early wildfire prevention and suppression strategies. In Idaho, one third of the town of Wallace was burned to the ground. Passenger trains evacuated thousands of Wallace residents to Spokane and Missoula. Another train with 1,000 people from Avery took refuge in a tunnel after racing across a burning trestle. The fire was finally extinguished when a cold front swept in, bringing steady rain and even some early season snowfall. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Happy National Forest Week y'all! Join Alison as she interviews Lillie Oravetz on her time working for the Forest Service. We also talk about fire ecology, logging, and types of land management. Be sure to check out the episode!

THURSDAY JULY 1st NOON CST on EQUESTRIAN LEGACY RADIO... He's a multi award winning singer and songwriter.  We welcome to the CAMPFIRE CAFE our friend JON CHANDLER! The first Thursday of each month we welcome our friends with Back Country Horsemen of America to  the award winning SADDLE UP AMERICA!  This month we're joined by them along  with our friends from the National Forest Service for another fun and informative hour! Join host Gary Holt along with his cohost Bobbi Bell LIVE at Equestrianlegacy.net or the archived podcast on Spotify, iHeart Radio, Apple Podcast or iTunes!

How does music impact your life? Does it make you happy or sad, giddy, or intense? Does it make you relax or reflect on life? Does it change the way you think about and relate to reality? It does all those things for me. So, I wanted to explore the intersection between art and science and how one can make us think differently about the other. Ben Cosgrove's art is inspired by nature and our relationship with it, so who better to speak to. Your Forest Podcast by Matthew Kristoff The Trouble With Wilderness with Ben Cosgrove Episode highlightBen Cosgrove is a travelling composer-performer whose music explores themes of landscape, place, and environment. He has held artist residencies and fellowships with institutions including the National Park Service, the National Forest Service, Harvard University, Middlebury College, the Schmidt Ocean Institute, and the Sitka Center for Art & Ecology. His nonfiction has appeared in Orion, Taproot, Northern Woodlands, Appalachia, and other publications. Ben's fourth studio album, The Trouble With Wilderness, was released on April 23rd, 2021. In this episode, he talks about his relationship with nature and the role art plays in helping us relate to nature and the way it affects our decision-making in environmental management. ResourcesBen's website: https://www.bencosgrove.com/ Northern Woodlands Magazine: https://northernwoodlands.org/ SponsorsWest Fraser: https://www.westfraser.com/ GreenLink Forestry Inc.: http://greenlinkforestry.com/ Damaged Timber: https://www.damagedtimber.com/ GiveawayEnter YourForest10 at checkout at the Damaged Timber store for a 10% discount!Quotes 23.21 - 23.43: “If by hearing me sit on stage every night and... tell stories about... how these different landscapes and environments and places have influenced and affected me, then I might... inspire somebody else to wonder about how the places that they inhabit and move through and care for affect them.” 28.34 - 28.47: “The trees outside your office... they all kind of rhyme with each other and just because it's in a city and … surrounded by concrete doesn't mean it's not also nature.” 30.03 - 30.16: “Just because there is wilderness out there doesn't mean that you don't also have a responsibility to... treat the nature in your own life with... respect and awe and interest and reverence.” 44.57 - 45.17: “When I write... I have to imagine that if my work or if that of any other environmental artist is influencing the thinking or eventually the work of a scientist, it's by appealing to them as a person first and a scientist second”. 1.05.17 - 1.05.29: “I am of the opinion that... a lot of our broader environmental problems and issues are... not the result of... malevolence but of neglect.”Takeaways Playing about the world (6.50) As a pianist, Ben identifies as a folk songwriter more than a classical composer, whose music is inspired by the environment, landscape and place. As a child, his piano teacher encouraged him to use music to understand his place in the world and he now expresses his feelings through music about geography. Greater than the sum of its sounds (11.24) Ben has moved from an objective data-driven musical portrait of an environment to a more emotionally resonant use of data to inspire his music. He talks about a piece he created based on a study on two species of megafauna, where their interactions, both pleasant and conflicting, were depicted using a cello and a viola. Soundscapes and conversation (16.41) Ben's music is an interpretation of his interest in “topography and what it feels like to be a person-sized person in differently shaped landscapes”. His travels feed his nuanced understanding of being in a place and compel him to pay attention to how qualitatively different each place is. What does your soul feel like? (19.55) Ben's natural interests and abilities in discovering the nature of the self combine with his interest in scientific understandings of different landscapes and places. Though he does not make music with the intention of advocacy, he hopes that his joyful self-expression helps others rediscover their connection with even mundane and lesser-noticed landscapes like sidewalk weeds. Inspiration begins at home (27.45) Ben's new album, The Trouble With Wildnerness, is named after “an argument against conflating wilderness and nature or even wilderness and wildness”. He admits that it took being stuck at home during the pandemic for him to discover the beauty of nature at his doorstep. His new music evokes the smaller features of ecosystems instead of the sweep of landscapes. Connecting through interpretations (35.36) Ben considers landscape painters and nature essayists as more his role models than musicians. He finds value in others unexpectedly emotionally resonating with his musical interpretation of nature. “The best thing art can do… [is] providing a point of connection that might otherwise be hard to articulate”, he claims. “Half of the work of the song is letting it be interpreted by somebody else” (38.50) Ben is mindful that “there is a lot… that art can do to frame public understanding of what a place is and what it means”, whether positive or negative and could present a narrow or reductive definition of a place too without the artist intending to. However, he appreciates how being interpreted lends his music new meaning and allows him to be a part of his audience's lives. “I write for people and scientists are people” (44.29) Ben has done a few residencies where he has created music in response to scientific research, using art to communicate his feelings to others, who may find value in his illustration of science. Though he is unaware of any research inspired by his music, he is confident that his music can “do a bit to show the public what science can do”. “Getting those conversations started makes the world run better” (1.02.47) Ben believes that the ways in which people act as stewards of one environment or landscape over another have a lot to do with the art they consume about it that has helped frame those places in their minds. He hopes his music compels people to discover and think critically about how they feel about a place, even if it is in disagreement with how he expresses his feelings. Stay in touch! (1.16.48) To learn more about Ben and his work, visit his website and listen to his new album, read his essays and dive deep into his philosophy surrounding nature!

Sean Quartz interviews Blair Libby. Libby has helped facilitate collaboration between Forest Managers belonging to the National Forest Service, Salish, Kootanai, and Pend d’Oreille tribes.

In this HCI Podcast episode, Dr. Jonathan H. Westover https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhwestover/) talks with Jake Jacobs about overcoming change fatigue and the concept of "Start with impact, follow the energy." See the video here: https://youtu.be/xnw69lADUco Why do some organizations work and others don't? Jake Jacobs (https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertjakejacobs/) has been curious about that question since his first real job on the assembly line of an ice cream novelty manufacturing plant and his second, tending bar in college. As a pioneer in the field of large group interventions, Jake has continued his discoveries about better ways for people and organizations to change. His consulting, writing, and teaching have all helped him continue in answering that question. He has worked with some of the largest corporations in the world including American Express, Corning, Ford, The Home Depot, Marriott, Mobil, and TJ Maxx. He has also supported major change efforts with the City of New York, the U.S. National Forest Service and Environmental Protection Agency and the United Kingdom's National Health and Employment Services. Writing has been a great way for him to get clearer about what he believes and how he works. In addition to regular postings to my blog, he has written articles for Strategy and Leadership, Executive Excellence, Leader to Leader, Strategic HR Review, the OD Practitioner, Consulting to Management and has been featured in The Huffington Post and Inc. magazine. Check out Dr. Westover's new book, The Alchemy of Truly Remarkable Leadership, here: https://www.innovativehumancapital.com/leadershipalchemy. Check out the latest issue of the Human Capital Leadership magazine, here: https://www.innovativehumancapital.com/hci-magazine. Ranked in the Top 10 Performance Management Podcasts: https://blog.feedspot.com/performance_management_podcasts/ ; Ranked in the Top 10 Workplace Podcasts: https://blog.feedspot.com/workplace_podcasts/ ; Ranked in the Top 15 HR Podcasts: https://blog.feedspot.com/hr_podcasts/ ; Ranked in the Top 15 Talent Management Podcasts: https://blog.feedspot.com/talent_management_podcasts/ ; Ranked in the Top 15 Personal Development and Self-Improvement Podcasts: https://blog.feedspot.com/personal_development_podcasts/ ; Ranked in the Top 30 Leadership Podcasts: https://blog.feedspot.com/leadership_podcasts/

Banning Covid passports in AZ & stopping federalization of elections. Rep. Roberts, Sen. Ugenti-Rita, Mark Haughwout.    Banning Covid passports! 00:00-19:23 Representative Bret Roberts House Bill 2190 would ban vaccine passports in Arizona. + what's the status of Covid liability protection for AZ businesses ++ another bill to protect AZ from Biden's Federal overreach.    Executive orders  & cdc travel recommendations  19:24-29:58 Jeff explains why a ban on vaccine passports through executive orders is a bad idea + CDC with new travel recommendations ++ airline travel up but down +++ AOC most ineffective member of Congress ++++ Yellen on global corporate tax rate    OSB, construction costs & naked skiing.  29:59-44:54 Mark Haughwout returns to discuss found gold, well not quite, but OSB is expensive ++ going broke on overruns +++ electric cars and unicorn power ++++ a National Forest complaint regarding masks & naked skiing.    Senator Michelle Ugenti-Rita discusses federalization of AZ elections.  44:54-64:08 Senator Michelle Ugenti-Rita discusses HR1 and the federalization of Arizona's elections + AZ Cardinals send a letter ++ curbing the Governors executive emergency powers   Too many trees? Why charge a permit? 64:09-76:37 Jeff expands on doing things through executive order vs. legislation + Jeff's grievances with the National Forest Service and firewood cutting fees ++ why would you stay in NY, major tax increases coming!

“The clearest way into the Universe is through a forest wilderness.” – John Muir Casita Dean May is back on today’s episode of The RV Atlas to talk about the past, present, and futureRead More The post The Past, Present, and Future of The National Forest Service appeared first on The RV Atlas.

A short report this week focused on the return of Virginia State Parks 15-race Adventure Series, controlled burns announced for National Forests in Tennessee, North Carolina and Virginia, and 42 miles of new trail planned in North Carolina's Pisgah National Forest around Old Fort.Pertinent links for this weekVirginia State Parks Adventure Race Series, go here.National Forest Service controlled burns. Click on the appropriate state link for details on planned burns by state:North CarolinaTennesseeVirginiaOld Fort Trails Project. For more information on the 42 miles of new trail planned for the Grandfather District of the Pisgah National Forest near Old Fort, go here.

To me, a quality print is the ultimate manifestation of a fine photograph and I just love this conversation with a fellow printing enthusiast. This is Latitude Photography Podcast, Episode 106 for February 28, 2021 Useful links: Get some free resources here: https://brentbergherm.com/info/resources/ Palouse Shoot-n-Print Photography and Printing Workshop Get on the list for updates on Latitude Photography School  Shop at lensrentals.com with my affiliate link and I’ll get a small commission of the sale. Use the code "latitude15" at checkout and you'll get 15% off your order. I also have an affiliate link with ThinkTank Photo  Thank you for your support! Links mentioned in the episode. Previous episodes with Joshua Holko: https://latitudephotographypodcast.com/episode/103/ https://latitudephotographypodcast.com/episode/97/ Moab Masters: https://www.moabpaper.com/moab-masters Joshua’s Site: https://jholko.com My YouTube Photo Printing Playlist: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLHmjR0YFpZrjOmj7AKuS5e8SrkfHuLWez Reliving Mark website: https://relivingmark.com PRINTING Why you print What you look for in a photograph that will make it a special print, is there anything that translates better to paper than screen? You’re a Moab Master. Tell me about that. You say that you prefer Somerset Museum Rag paper by Moab. That you “would not exhibit your work on any other paper.” why is that? What is it about this paper that makes it so special?  Your print process, I do three levels of inspection/sharpening. Capture sharpening, creative edits which include creative sharpening sharpening and output sharpening. Does this resonate with your process? Do you do things differently? 5b. Color calibration. Looks like you use Epson printers. We’ll talk about that briefly. Anything else you’d like to add. Announcements (appears before the printing conversation in the episode) I certainly hope all is well with you, things have really been humming along here at the farm. We had some excellent snow a couple weeks ago and now it seems Spring is well on its way. Things happening in the fb group recently: Closed the Winter Wonderland submission timeframe and opened another, Under the Sun. Be sure to apply the topic to your original post so I can see it when it’s time to do the review. We’ll actually plan to do this next one live and that will be scheduled a bit later. We’ll shoot for later in March.  For Under the Sun, try and incorporate something with the sun in your shot. Feel free to dig through your archive of images, or make a new image. It doesn’t matter to me. I’ll try once again to bring someone on with me to do the review and this will generally be a rather light hearted review. We won’t dive too deeply nor will we get to critical. But it’s still a great opportunity to learn some points on the insights we share about the photos. The session I recorded with Tom Wagner is posted to YouTube but I had a weird echo with Tom’s audio. That was not his fault at all. I heard him just fine and I know his side of things was operating as it should. The echo was my issue and I’m getting that figured out before I do the next session. I may delete that video because, while it’s great to have those photos discussed, I just can’t see it really working well since it’s so hard to sit through. So, my apologies to you and Tom and we’ll get it fixed the next time around. Other things in the group, Mike Regas asked about online learning, he mentioned Phlearn Pro and Kelby One. If you have anything to chime in on that I’m sure he’d love to hear from you :)  And Aaron Martinez, he was on just a few episodes ago talking about the Pentax K3 mkii, which has been delayed indefinitely, well, he posted a pic from up here in the PNW. Nice to see these types of images coming in :) My next episode will be all about your Lightroom Classic questions. I have very little experience in Lightroom CC but if those are there I’ll do my best with those. Look for the post in the group and get your questions listed there. I pinned it to the top and I made it an announcement so it should be easy to find. Rather off topic, but something I wanted to share anyway, I was able to help a fellow faculty member with a website recently. He produced a six episode documentary on the Biblical book of Mark. The website link is in the shownotes towards the top but it’s called Reliving Mark. The first episode is to be released today, the 28th of February. You can watch it online if you’d like and the remaining five episodes will be released a week apart. I believe it culminates with the final episode releasing on Easter Sunday which is kinda cool. Oh, I finally got my submission in to the Voices of the Wildernes Artist in Residence program operated by the National Forest Service in Alaska. If you want, you can see my submission portfolio of six images in the fb group. I decided to focus on three genres of work, the Active Landscape, Panoramas and my series I call Segmentation. I should know the results by mid April so I’ll keep my fingers crossed and pray they choose me. It would be such an amazing experience to head up there and be in the wilderness for a couple of weeks. And my goodness, I’ve just got so many things to talk about. I have a preliminary plan worked out for my Sabbatical experience I hope I’ll get approval for from my Vice President at the university. It includes Great Basin National Park, Badlands National Park, Lake Superior coast of Minnesota and Isle Royale National Park and Theodore Roosevelt National Park. My intent was to visit various national parks that are not exceedingly popular. And all of these fit that description as I look at the visitation numbers for 2019. Once I have confirmation that it’s been approved I’ll start making reservations and other final plans. I was thinking about seeing if I could go far and wide, like to Florida or Maine, but let’s face it. We have a gigantic country and I have a family too. This trip would have me on the road for 4.5 weeks and most of it would be camping. So I remain hopeful… One other idea I had was to lengthen the trip and fly home for a week in the middle of the trip to break it up a bit. We’ll see how it goes but I don’t see that happening at this point. My plan largely centers around spending the better part of a week in each location, then completely resting on Saturday’s in a hotel, literally just chilling out and possibly sleeping. And then on Sundays I’ll record a podcast episode and publish it so you always will have fresh and timely discussion about the experience and then I’ll be back on the road on Mondays to the next destination. It won’t be a perfect occurrence every time because I’m looking at spending the weekend on Isle Royale, but for the most part that will be my goal. OK, I think I’ve about covered it all, it’s time to get on to my discussion with Joshua Holko, he’s been on the show twice before talking about his work as a Polar Photographer and prepping for harsh winter conditions. So without further ado let’s just get right to it and I’ll start by saying Joshua, welcome to the show! Ending Remarks Latitude Photo School is going pretty good. Today starts a huge push to make it all come together. In this episode I mention about my printing course. That will be part of the school for sure, but just know that I’ve temporarily turned off the ability to purchase that course since I’m switching up a bunch of the tech I’m using to deliver my online trainings. But in short, my LPS service will include the following: Access to all my courses, group Q&A sessions (you can type in questions, I’ll answer them or show you on screen, whatever is the best option) assignments with feedback and a I’ll be planning on rolling out a discussion forum shortly after launch. If you have any ideas about what you’d like to see that would put my photo training service above the rest I’m all ears. I really like the idea of assignments because I really do believe that photography is best learned by doing the work and then getting a review on those images makes it all the better. I have yet to fully flesh out how it’ll work because I could easily get overwhelmed but I really want to make this the best service with the greatest value possible.  Reminders Find us on the web at http://latitudephotographypodcast.com Find me on facebook at https://www.facebook.com/brentberghermphoto/ Find the podcast facebook group at https://www.facebook.com/groups/latitudephotographypodcast/ Find me on instagram @brentbergherm Find me on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/c/brentberghermphotography Find me online at https://brentbergherm.com Find Joshua online at: https://jholko.com

In this episode we look at 7 big hikes we couldn't take in 2020 because of the pandemic, but we're hopeful of getting in in 2021. Those hikes and links to where you can find details on how to hike them are below:Mount Mitchell TrailFind the Alltrails.com route description here.Black Mountain Crest TrailFind a map and additional information on the BMC on the N.C. State Parks website here.Find a route description of the Black Mountain Crest Trail from Hiking Upward here.Sam Knob Loop"Backpacking North Carolina," Trip No. 14Doughton Park LoopVisit the National Park Service site here for information on Doughton Park and a map"Backpacking North Carolina," Trip No. 11North Mills River LoopVisit the National Forest Service site for North Mills River hereStanding Indian AT LoopVisit the National Forest Service site for Standing Indian hereCataloochee ValleyVisit the National Forest Service website for Cataloochee here.Learn more about these hikes on our GetGoingNC.com blog, here.Public lands visitationRead more about North Carolina's record state park attendance in 2020 here.

In this episode, we cover a new freeride bike the Norco, the Shore, new goggles from 100%, Forest Service directives on e-bikes and more! Show Notes: Norco Shore – https://www.norco.com/bikes/2021/mountain/freeride/shore/ New 100% Goggles – https://www.100percent.com/pages/gen2-goggles Red Bull UCI Downhill Racing...

For over 35 years, the United States has partnered with Mexico to share resources during peak fire activity. And right now, 100 Mexican firefighters are in Tulare County helping to battle the SQF Complex Fire. The crew from Guadalajara arrived Friday at the Kern County High School in Lake Isabella, where they were greeted by California fire officials. It’s not the first visit for Ramon Silva, deputy chief of the National Forestry Commission of Mexico. He helped fight the Camp Fire in 2018 so he’s seen the devastation wildfires have wreaked on the state and it concerns him. “But on the other side, it’s a good opportunity for us to respond to the support we’ve gotten from the U.S. Forest Service,” Silva said. Firefighter Marthlla Cortina agrees. She came to California in 2018 to participate in an exchange program through the U.S. National Forest Service and the National Forestry Commission of Mexico. She said she received training that will help her fight this fire. And she said she’s

Eric Burke, Natural Resources Staff Officer for the National Forest Service talks about his career and the many opportunities that exist in the Forest Service.

Are you one of the millions of people who heard the call of nature during the pandemic? It’s wonderful how many families have gotten away from their screens and out of their houses and headed into nature, whether it’s hiking, kayaking, paddle boarding, fishing or something else. But without proper preparation, getting back to nature can turn deadly. In this edition of the Bottom Line Advocator Podcast with Sarah Hiner, David Boyd, public affairs officer from the White River National Forest in Colorado, joins Sarah to talk about what you need to know and do to stay safe while enjoying the many gifts nature has to offer. Highlights of the conversation… • Never underestimate nature (4:25 – 5:36) • Surviving storms (5:36 – 7:33) • The most dangerous thing on an outdoor adventure (7:33 – 8:00) • Thunderstorm strategies (8:00 – 10:33) • Know your hiking capabilities (10:33 – 14:35) • Hiking is not just a walk in the woods (14:35 – 19:36) • Don’t be cheap with camping gear (19:36 – 22:01) • Fire danger is real (22:01 – 25:50) • The clean-up crew (25:50 – 29:15) • Animals up close and personal (29:15 – 30:55) • When you see a bear (30:55 – 34:37) • Moose aren’t so cute (34:37 – 38:23) • Marmots, raccoons, foxes and more (38:23 – 42:09) • Should hikers carry pepper spray? (42:09 – 43:05) • Snake smarts (43:05 – 44:45) • Water sports—even calm water is powerful (44:45 You can learn more about the National Forest Service and the many wonderful places you can visit at USDA.gov/visit/destinations. You can connect with and stay in touch with Sarah at her website www.bottomlineinc.com! Find Bottom Line on Facebook @WeAreBottomLine and at Bottom Line Inc. on  www.linkedin.com. And if you enjoyed this podcast, please share a review so that more people can benefit from Be sure to subscribe to the Bottom Line Advocator Podcast with Sarah Hiner on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Stitcher.

 By mid-August, there were 1,000 to 3,000 fires burning in Idaho, Montana, and Washington. August 20, 1910 brought hurricane-force winds to the interior northwest, whipping the hundreds of small fires into one or two much larger blazing infernos. Such a conflagration was impossible to fight; there were too few men and supplies. The National Forest Service was only five years old at the time and unprepared for the possibilities of the dry summer or a fire of this magnitude, though all summer it had been urgently recruiting as many men as possible to fight the hundreds of fires already burning, many with little forestry or firefighting experience.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Christina Platt just really, really likes walking. She's a reformed "techy", Appalachian Trail hiker, and now, she's a Wilderness Specialist for the National Forest Service and Wilderness Preservation System in the Monongahela National Forest, in WV. Also, she's just a really genuine human being. ————————————————————— She's got a lot of knowledge to share from her experiences. Today, Christina gives a crash course on public lands. She also explains a bit about her incredible job and the responsibility of using data to measure the success of preservation in wilderness areas. We talk about outdoor spaces and how our country's policies and people have made efforts, and are currently working, to preserve them. (And she gives a lot of great life advice, too!) ————————————————————— I'm so grateful that you've chosen to check this episode out - hope that you enjoy.

Have you ever dreamed of ditching your day job and pursuing a career in the woods? Maybe working with wolves in the desert southwest or conducting plant surveys in the wilds of Alaska? Well, Matt Gaffney did it! Leaving behind a job in digital marketing, he went back to school to get his degree in environmental studies and went on to work a series of seasonal positions with the National Forest Service. Bill caught up with him in August of 2019 in the Monongahela National Forest in West Virginia. Join them on a hike on Spruce Knob (the highest point in WV) as Matt shares his adventures and advice on pursuing a career in the wild!

Travel Gluten Free Podcast Episode 81  Travel Options and Health Precautions You Can Use During COVID Pandemic   Health Precautions   Look to the CDC website for proper precautions to take to prevent the spread of COVID-19 and Coronavirus common questions and answers. Three common precautions we hear about regularly are:   Wash your hands for 20 seconds Social distancing at least six feet apart Use hand sanitizer with a minimum of 60% alcohol   You can find more precautions at the CDC website here and also learn what myths and false facts are being spread along with the disease on this page of the CDC site.   Learn about travel advice for those who must travel and the latest worldwide travel updates from the World Health Organization here on their website.   COVID Travel Options   If you are at high risk because of age or immunocompromised health, staying at home is your best bet. Always seek and take the advice of your medical practitioner when your health and safety are involved.   Are you having a bad case of cabin fever and are not in a high-risk category? You’re in luck as there are a few travel activities you can still participate in when you are healthy and not in the high-risk group.   Take a Day Trip to a National Forest or National Parks   The National Forests and National Parks are now free to go and roam! Many places inside the park are closed, however, you can still hike and enjoy the outdoors in the national forests and parks. Take a day trip to a National Park or National Forest, enjoy the outdoors, bring a picnic and spend time with your family outside. Plan your trip ahead of time to a National Park by downloading a park PDF map by looking up a National Park on the National Park website here.    National Forest Service website can be accessed here and lists currently available activities inside the parks. “The Forest Service is taking the risks presented by COVID-19 seriously and is following USDA and CDC public health guidance as we continue to offer services to the public. Visitors to our National Forests and Grasslands are urged to take the precautions recommended by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). There are three official, government-wide sources of up-to-date information about the coronavirus: Coronavirus.gov, CDC.gov/coronavirus, and USA.gov/coronavirus.”   Utah State Parks are also open and you can visit the Utah State Park website by visiting here. Their website is keeping a page for COVID-19 updates here. “The Utah Division of Parks and Recreation takes the health and safety of our visitors and employees seriously.  Employees have been asked to clean high-traffic areas or highly-used materials regularly, as well as to not report to work should there be concerns about their health status. We encourage everyone visiting state parks practice #ResponsibleRecreation. This means: separating yourself and honoring the social distance of others, avoiding crowded trailheads and areas; and keeping parks and facilities clean.” Camping   Camping is always a fun adventure, no matter if there is a pandemic or not! Getting outside and sleeping outside, enjoying your campfire and camping food I believe is one of the best ways to reconnect with the outdoors. Whether you’re glamping or tent camping, this favorite outdoor American activity is sure to be fun! Make sure to call ahead to find out camping restrictions in private and publicly held camping facilities.    Scenic Car Rides with Your Family   Car rides used to be a special outing many decades ago as cars and roads became more common. Nowadays, seems like the only time we are in our cars is when we are rushing to a store or going to work. Why not take a scenic car drive around where you live or a scenic area nearby where you are? We are so busy in our normal everyday life, we don’t often take advantage of the beauty around us. Find a scenic road or byway near you by visiting the Federal Highway Administration’s Scenic Byway page here.   Family Fun Things to Do   Even when we make the best of our situation, we are still mostly indoors and stuck inside our home. Instead of vegging out on video games, try one of these at-home activities to make your day a little lighter and brighter!   Baking  Whether you have a mix or start from scratch, baking can be a fun family affair! Grab your recipe, go shopping and break out your mixer for good, old-fashioned family fun. Make cookies, cake, fresh bread or cook a family meal together. Cooking and baking is an activity that can be blended into your everyday life, not just a special occasion activity! There are many places online where you can find a wonderful recipe. Check out my website here to find out more or go to Episode 68 of the Travel Gluten Free podcast for easy recipes and gluten-free deals online!   Play Outside    Badminton, whiffle ball, soccer or basketball are great games to get your family going outside! Snowing on a weekly basis? Try building a snowman, snowshoeing around your home or on a nearby trail or have a snowball fight! There are many options for outdoor fun in a cold or warm climate.   Have a family picnic at your home or a park that is open as many parks are usually empty at this time. Remember to use social distancing and bring hand sanitizer with you for precaution!    Play Inside   Board games and card games are fun no matter how much technology we have around our house. Besides fun, these activities are a great way to connect and interact with other members of your family while enjoying time together.    Remember to Support Your Local Businesses Today!   Purchasing a gift card to a local business you frequent can mean the difference between that business getting by and shutting their doors. Many family businesses do not have the capital to fund their storefronts for prolonged periods of time when they can’t physically see customers. Purchase a gift card from them today and use the card when you can get back to their store or business! They will appreciate your patronage during these tough times.   Park City has our own gift certificate website PC Gift Cards where you can register your small business or purchase a card from a small local family-owned business in Park City!    Grab the Guide to Traveling Gluten Free https://amzn.to/2NlZugf   Get the BEST all-natural gluten-free travel cosmetics at Lemongrass Spa! https://www.ourlemongrassspa.com/19314/content/shop.aspx   Looking for a Great Travel Deal? Visit my Travel Deals page on my website! It's packed with deals for discount airfare, car rental, airport parking and much more, including discount trips to Italy.    Support Travel Gluten Free! For as little as $3 a month, become a show sponsor through Patreon.com Support the podcast which supports you, Travel Gluten Free!   Journey with Travel Gluten Free on Social Media Twitter      Facebook    Youtube      Pinterest    Instagram    On the Web   Spread the love of Travel Gluten Free podcast and share this episode with a friend

Basecamp Hospitality is a National Forest Service contractor that manages 116 campgrounds within 2 million acres of forest land in Utah and 19 other states. SkyMed is a membership organization that promises to bring people home if they are sick or injured while traveling. Both firms offer opportunities to workampers.

Ryan Jenkins, Park Manager at Henry Horton State Park, discusses his upbringing, his love for nature, and current projects. Raised in a National Forest Service family, Ryan pursued music and business in college before rediscovering his love for parks in his late 20’s. Since then, he has been active in promoting health initiatives involving park activities. One activity in particular, Healthy Parks Healthy Person, has been largely successful. Launched in 2015, the Healthy Parks Healthy Person is a stamp card program allowing app users to earn rewards based on their park activity. These points can then be redeemed as discounts and other benefits from participating businesses. The big-picture goal, as Ryan explains, “We just want to get people outside for their health. We want to create behavior change with this application. In order to do that, we utilize the gamification and technology…to try to get people into our parks.”

We're taking a look at a unique program of the National Forest Service that allows people to harvest plants (with permit) for personal use. We'll tell you how to take advantage and where to go.

THURSDAY AUGUST 1st NOON CST... Jon Chandler is an Award Winning Singer,songwriter and author and will be joining us to share his music and stories this Thursday August 1st on Equestrian Legacy Radio's award winning CAMPFIRE CAFE! Did you know...The federal government owns around 640 million acres of land (about 28 percent) of the 2.27 billion acres of land in the United States.  Thursday August 1st we'll visit with representatives of the US Forest Service on Equestrian Legacy RadIo's SADDLE UP AMERICA and discuss topics of interest to all trail riders! Tune in Live with host Gary I. Holt and cohost Bobbi Jean Bell or you can catch the Archived Podcast anytime at Equestrianlegacy.net

Only a few days after it started, the Eagle Creek Fire in the Columbia River Gorge was only seven percent contained, so a sudden increase in the wind could cause it to once again continue its approach toward Portland, Oregon, a heavily wooded city of 700,00 people that hadn’t seen any measurable precipitation in 50 days. Everyone was skeptical that anything but rain could put this fire out, and it was nowhere in the forecast. In episode four of Wildfire, we’ll look into our wildfire management strategy as an institution; to learn from its founding principles, as well as its pitfalls, and learn from our triumphs and mistakes to help chart the best path forward. How did these policies originate, and why? What lead to this overwhelming strategy of suppression, and where has that left us now? Regarding the young man who started the fire, we’ll reveal everything we know about him, from press releases and news articles, to hopefully make some sense of his crime. And from there, we’ll look at the birth of the National Forest Service in the beginning of the 20th Century, the pioneering efforts of Teddy Roosevelt and Gifford Pinchot, and the systemic perception of wildfire that has sunk its roots so deeply into society’s consciousness that it has been next to impossible to change. Key takeaways: 0:24 – The wind had finally died down, and for a moment, the fire had finally stopped spreading. 1:40 – The government elevated the fire from a type two incident to a type one incident. There were now more than 1,000 firefighters in the Gorge to fight this fire and stop it before it went nuclear… 6:55 –On September 2, 2017, a teenager in the Pacific Northwest walked into the woods and made a really, really big mistake. 8:45 – “Having a catastrophic event happen in the middle of a traditionally busy weekend obviously had an impact on every single business here in town. Our customers didn’t have a reason to come out anymore, because there weren’t any trails to run on, bike on, play on…” 12:15 – “From a developmental standpoint, working with teenagers, they’re with a group of friends, trying to look cool, trying to get that social acceptance, wanting people to think you’re a ‘badass’, and feeling like you’re invincible.” 15:27 – It simply isn’t true that this kind of fire will never happen again. These fires, manmade or not, will likely continue, as they have throughout history. 18:54 – “If you look back at the history of conflagrations in the United States, they pretty much align with the wave of frontier settlement....” – The history of wildland firefighting strategy, and the history if Smokey Bear 25:27 – It all fell apart in the 1980s, when full-suppression tactics came back into vogue. 29:00 – “We waged a war on wildfire as a nation. But is wildfire really terrible? Can we attach such a subjective and human label to something so far beyond us?” 31:49 – “Convincing the public that some wildfires are good is tricky, but convincing the government could be even harder. And wildfire management in the United States is inextricably attached to timber.” 32:35 – The logging industry grew by 1,000 percent at the end of the 20th century, and clearcutting went into full effect. You can’t drive through Oregon without seeing the scars of this unfortunate era. Every tree in America had a dollar sign on it. 34:27 – “We had a human-caused fire, an abandoned campfire, way up in a dead-end drainage, and the fire became very active and took off… and some individuals were trapped… and four perished, and two were badly burned. It’s not worth it, at all. It’s not worth a life.” 36:34 – “We need to learn to live worth fire, because it’s not going away.” 40:00 – “We’re never going to live in a world without fire, and we wouldn’t want to. But how would the legal system hold ‘The Kid’ accountable, and make a statement about his actions?” Resources Stephen Pyne's website Stephen Pyne's book: Fire in America The Big Burn by Tim Egan 

A conversation with Tom Boss from the Marin County Bike Coalition announcing the Adventure Revival Event in September. Later we talk to Juan De La Roca about the concept of a gravel destination. Adventure Revival Event Registration  Marin County Bicycle Coalition Website  Explore Las Animas Website (routes and more!)    Automated Transcription. Please forgive all errors. TOM BOSS -- Marin County Bicycle Coalition: All right. Tom, welcome to the show. Yeah, thanks for having me, Craig. Yeah, I always like to start off, Tom by learning a little bit more about your background as a cyclist and how you came to gravel riding. Sure. Um, well at first let me start by saying, um, it's a real pleasure to be on your show. Um, I, yeah, I am generally an early adapter. Uh, when it comes to bikes. I was one of the first in my group together, a full suspension bike first to get a single speed first to go 29 or um, but I was a little late on the gravel, the gravel scene and um, I, I jumped on board, uh, at the end of last year, started to really get interested and I actually discovered your podcast serendipitously about the same time, listen to a lot of your older, I'm your archives and, and it was really nice. It was kind of a roadmap for me as I, as I jumped into gravel and I'm learning quite a bit. So just wanting to give you a shout out and thank you for, for the work you're doing. Thank you. I appreciate the kind words. Okay. Yeah. So I grew up here in Moran and, uh, I was bombing down with my friends, uh, on Mount Tam on a 20 inch BMX bike. Um, when Gary and Joe and Otis, we're inventing mountain biking. We're a few years younger and so, uh, those bikes were too big for us. But, um, I've been pretty much riding Mount Tam on a, on some form of a bicycle since, uh, since the 70s. And I'm really lucked out in finding a job at the Greene County Bicycle Coalition, uh, heading up the off road program. Uh, I get to basically promote and, uh, expand bicycling here in Marin, uh, for myself and for everybody else who, who cherishes this, uh, this wonderful place that we live in and visit and enjoy. So it sounds like an ideal job. You certainly, yeah. I consider a Marin county to be an ideal location to be an off road rider. Yeah, we have, uh, as we point out in our, uh, uh, and many of our correspondence, we have 50% of marines land is open as Parkland open to the public, whether it's Mount Tam or China camp. We've got national parks, the CV shore, and lots of open space. And so it really, uh, provides almost, you know, almost everybody that lives in Moran is a few miles away from, you know, amazing trails and, uh, and beautiful scenery. And, uh, so yeah, it's just, it's part of our, uh, it's part of the quality of life here in Ryan for sure. From your perspective at the Marin county bicycle coalition, when did you start seeing the influence of gravel athletes start take over the trails in Marin? That's a, that's a good question. So we, seven, eight years ago we started another bike ride, the, um, or a bike ride, the MCPC dirt fondant, which is primarily a mountain bike ride from the Marin headlands to the top of Mount Tam and back. And, um, right from the start, um, you know, we get a few emails, hey, is this route, you know, are these trails singlespeed friendly or are these trails, uh, uh, cross bike friendly? So, um, so there's, I think the cross in particular, there's a lot of people coming out to our mountain bike events, riding cross bikes and uh, so you could see, um, you know, first you scratched your head, this doesn't make much sense, but then you saw the bikes, you know, get the, some of the wider spacing so they can put bigger tires. And then we saw from that kind of this, this evolution of gravel. And uh, so yeah, just seems like every, every year we have more and more people showing up on different styles of bikes. And last year on the dirt Fondo, you know, I'd say a third of the people where we're not on mountain bikes Ranita or gravel or across or, or a single speed bike. So, yeah, I, for one, have found that some of the trails in southern Marin, they're just more exciting on the gravel bike because they're not, they weren't pushing the limits of mountain bike technology. Once you had a full suspension bike, you were really kind of overprepared for the headlines, if you will. When you're riding on a lot of fire road trails, all of a sudden you get on a drop bar bike and you know, descending a fire fast fire road in the headlands, uh, could give you a thrill again. Okay. Yeah, it really does. You know, without the suspension and what those skinny or tires you have to pay a little more attention and pick your lines again. I used to, you know, focus on lines and in the last 10 years I, with these, you know, big tires and full suspension bikes, uh, you just, I just kind of point and shoot and uh, and, and the gravel has really kind of, I rediscovered a lot of my favorite trails, um, kind of either remembering how it used to be or discovering a whole new, uh, way of traversing them. Yeah, that's the exact same journey I've been on. Just things that I had written for the last 15, 20 years. All of a sudden felt, knew I'd always loved them and had an affinity for them, but now they're pushing my skills technically and made them new again. Yeah, it's real fun. For sure. I caught wind of this year's upcoming dirt Fondo, which is why I reached out to you originally and I was super excited when the team at Studio Vella mentioned that you hadn't announced it yet, but you guys had a big gravel event planned up your sleeve. So can you introduce that event Tom, and we'll start talking a little bit about it. Yeah, so glinted La. It was actually kind of born a little bit out of, out of, from the dirt Fondo we had, um, Erie Oswald and Vanessa, his wife had been coming out to our dirt Fondo for, for years and a few years ago, um, Erie offered, he said, if you guys ever want to do and Gramble event, let me know, I'd be happy to help you plan one. And, uh, so this year we decided to take them up on the offer and we had a meeting with him and we learned that the nor cal league was also wanting to do and gravel events here in Marine County. And so, uh, it was just a no brainer that, hey, we should just join forces and work together and make one really great day on gravel here in Marin. So what's it called? What's the date and what can we expect? So it's called the adventure revival. And we did a lot of thinking about the name. We talked about calling it a gravel, this or that, and uh, but what we are, what we realized in, in thinking about the name and, and developing this ride that Moran has a little bit of a, uh, a history in, in this, in this style of writing. And it is a matter of fact that the guys that started mountain biking, uh, Joe Breeze and Carrie Fisher, notice guy and Tom Richey, uh, back in the 70s, these guys were actually, they started basically on the road and they discovered they found some early cyclocross tires and started taking those bikes on some of the fire roads back in the 70s. And then from there it really evolved, uh, into Ma, you know, then they found the fat tire bikes and, and, and, and started mountain biking. But, um, so, but there's been kind of a history of gravel or, or adventure cycling, uh, more skinny tire drop were bar writing here in Moran for, for a long time. And in the, in the, in the northern California in general. Um, so we decided that we think of it more as adventure cycling. And so we call it the adventure revival to kind of a little tip of the hat to some of those early rides on Belinas Ridge, uh, and also Tom Richey and, uh, Yost brands. We're doing rides down on the Santa Cruz about the Santa Cruz, uh, up in the mountains above Santa Cruz, uh, back in the 70s. So the adventure revival is the name of our ride. It is on Saturday, September 7th, and it will be a journey, uh, from Fairfax, uh, out into the fire roads, trails and roads of last Moran, uh, before coming back to a big party in downtown Fairfax. That's really exciting. I'm super excited about that. And it also, it's, there's a, there's a nice synergy between the dirt Fondo, which kind of predominantly is around the headlands and this side of Tam to starting something over in Fairfax. It's sort of the far end of my normal riding range. I'm really excited to explore with you guys that part of Marin. So are we starting in downtown Fairfax and where do we go from there? Yeah, we'll be starting at the Fairfax pavilion, which is right, right downtown and we'll be heading west on, uh, Sir Francis Drake for a bit and then we'll be going into the marine county open space. Lands will be riding, uh, up on two. Um, Sandra on my red and, uh, two of the routes. We'll take people on to some of the new trails and the Giacomini open space preserve, which are really grapple, friendly and beautiful. You know, you're immersed in redwood forest. Um, and then, uh, then our, our journey, I'll continue west out towards point raise, uh, along Bolinas Ridge. Uh, one route we'll go down the Lima valley trail, which a lot of people don't know about is a, a beautiful trail in the and the point Reyes national seashore. A lot of, uh, interesting, uh, geography happening down there. And then we'll all join back up and, uh, come back, uh, on the Bolinas Fairfax road, uh, into town or we'll have a nice barbecue and festivities waiting for the writers. No, as soon as it is it a mixture of, of double track fire roads and single track throughout the day. Yeah, it's a pretty even mix. There's a single, you know, we start a little bit on the road, get some single track, uh, up up into the White Hill area, go past the Tamar Rancho trail system. Uh, then we're on fire road for awhile. Then like I mentioned, there's that new, some new trails down in the jockey mini preserve that we'll check out. Uh, we're on the Cross Maroon trail through the Samuel P. Taylor park up jewel trail, which is a really nice, uh, trail a lot of people don't check out. And then you're, then you're on that Bolinas Ridge where it's, it reminds me of the sound of music, those rolling green hills and the cows and the smallest band, the background, really a stunning, um, visually, uh, place to be riding. Um, then then a little bit of road down highway one to get to the five Brook's area and uh, and then on the Lima valley trail. So yeah, really it's, it's, I'd say it's a good mix of road, a fire road end and trail. That's great. And that sounds like a fun mix. Terrain adventure. Did you also mentioned to me that you were able to get access to some pieces of property that are otherwise untouchable by riders? Yeah, we're working on that. This is our first year and we're going to keep it all on public lands. But yes, but we're, we've, we've started some conversations with some of the ranchers out in West Marin and we're hopeful that in future years we'll be able to, uh, to provide some routes that will be a pretty special, uh, places, one in a once in a lifetime chance to check out some of the beautiful land. It's not part of the park system. Nice. And are all the trails that are publicly available, are they available year round to cyclists who want to explore out there? Okay. Yeah. So all of these trails that will be on our, uh, you can go out and check them out on your own. Yeah. Four. Well, at least, yeah. 365 days a year. And it sounds like, let's talk in everybody's favorite subjects, tires, wheels. Um, it sounds like with a mixed terrain route, we may not need something super aggressive as a tire. Yeah. There's there, there's enough, there's enough trail that would have roots and rocks and, uh, depending on the conditions, you know, might be a little slippery that I think, I think you're going to want to have a medium to two big tire, um, just to do avoid, you know, pinch flats or, or sidewall punctures. There's Bolinas Ridge has some, some, uh, big routes that you might hit. And, um, yeah, I know on the road, you know, there, there's, there's a, there are some roads sections, so, uh, but, but yeah, I would, I would recommend, you know, a 30, a 38 to 45 millimeter tire, uh, for this ride. Okay. And Are you characterizing it as more of a sort of grand Fonda ride or is as they're racing element to this event? This is more, it's more fondo style where we're, it's a social event. The, uh, the land managers Samarin don't, uh, embrace bike racing. Uh, so this is not a race. This is a ride. Um, but yeah, it's, it's, uh, personally I think travel is a very conductive of more, you know, it's a very social activity. People, uh, you know, can go at whatever pace they like. Um, they'll certainly be some climbs, like a tool and up brand, all that people might want to, you know, test their, their abilities on. Um, but in the most, for the most part, we're really promoting a very fun event. Have Fun Day, we'll have a lot of, uh, a lot of, uh, good, uh, support out on the station or out on the route with, with some really fun activities like we have. But there's this one very rocky section at the top of a white hill fire road where if you, there's gonna be people out there from, uh, one of our sponsors touched on climbing. If you make that section without dabbing, they're going to, they're going to give you a little prize for the effort. So we have a lot of little things like that plan to make it a fun, fun day for everybody. Nice. And I think you mentioned there was a couple of different distances, is that right? Yeah, we have three routes. Uh, we have, uh, what we call the spicy route, which is the big one. It's 48 miles was 6,000 feet of climbing. Uh, we have the medium route, which is 42 miles with 5,000 feet of climbing. And then for people new to a gravel riding, uh, we still have a punchy 23 miles of 2,500 feet of climate. And on the, on the, uh, 23 mile route, is that something that is suitable for beginners in terms of the type of terrain it is, it is suitable, but there, there's still, like I said, that one section I'd mentioned that rocky section at the, um, at the top of the wave hill fire road. Um, you know, you may have to walk that if you're, if you're new to this sport, but in general, uh, that route would be pretty beginner friendly. Yes. Great. And I just have a general question about putting on an event in Marin county. Is it pretty complicated with the various public land holders to kind of organize a re a ride like this? It is, uh, Craig, we, one of the challenges we have is unlike, you know, places like Lake Tahoe where maybe only have one or two land managers of the National Forest Service or, um, that's who usually is the land manager. Here we have four different entities and you never know whose land are crossing. So this ride we're having to permit, um, from we're permitting through open space, marine county open space. We're from writing from state parks or permitting from MWD the watershed, uh, and also the national parks. So that's all for land managers were having to get, uh, to work with to get the permitting for this, uh, event. And uh, they're all very supportive and uh, encourage bike, uh, bicycling in their parks. Um, but yeah, it does, uh, it is a little harder than it is in some places where maybe you're only dealing with one permit and, and the whole ride isn't one on one person's land. Yeah. I think that's what's great about having them Marin county bicycle coalition involved because you have the integrity and longevity of the organization to bring to bear that these land owners can trust you, that you've got their best interests in mind for sure. And we also give back, for example, this part of the, um, one of the things we offered with the permitting for the national park was that we would commit one day of volunteer work on a trail of their choice either before or after the ride. And, uh, and we also have our, our slow and say hello message that we give to all the writers who really remind them that when they're on our, I bet when they're participating in one to borrow against their ambassadors and bicycling and they really need to, uh, be models of a good, um, trail user and you know, be very courteous and obviously obey all the rules. Yeah. Well, I think that's an important note in a important reminder just for everybody listening to support your local bicycle coalitions because they do a lot of work behind the scenes and it's great when you get to come in front of the scenes and create awesome new events for us to enjoy. Um, Tom, I appreciate you coming on the show and telling us about the event. I'm really excited to myself and explore that part of Marin. We will put information about registration up on the podcast notes, um, and we'll get this out as soon as possible, but if you're listening to this registrations already open for this event, there is a cap this year on the number of athletes that the event can hold. So definitely click the link quickly if you haven't already get your slot because Tom and his team are putting on an amazing event that I think is going to be around for a long time. So Tom, thanks for thanks again for joining us. Yeah, well thank you for having me and I look forward to riding with you in September. Juan De La Roca -- Gravel Destinations Juan, welcome to the show. Thank you Greg, really appreciate being here with you this afternoon. So this is a little bit more of a, it's an interesting segment for us at the gravel ride podcasts. Cause one actually reached out over email with a simple question like many of you do and but it was what makes a gravel destination and are there gravel destinations out there in the world? And it struck a chord with me because I certainly in my life have had places I thought were mountain bike destinations like Moab or crested Butte or whistler up in Canada. And I've certainly had rode destinations like borders on in France at the base of Alp do as we're Tuscany in Italy or May. Orca. And all these things resonated with me. But when he asked the question I just had no idea. Like what is a legitimate gravel destination? So one, thank you for bringing that question up and I'd love to have a discussion with you because you live in a place where you think has the fundamental building blocks to become a gravel destination. Yeah, absolutely. So I, I'm a little bit about my background. So I've been in Colorado now for 25 years within the Denver Boulder area, uh, left Denver in 2015. And, uh, actually thought I was going to be done living in Colorado was in that phase where everybody was kind of moving here. We saw a big jump of population and, and uh, we started to kind of pick my, I pick my head up and looked around and said, hey, maybe there might be another place. But, um, I ended up in Austin, Texas down in central Texas, which was actually a great learning lesson because in a lot of ways, you know, often experience with Denver has been experiencing over the last several years with an influx of population pushing people out more into rural areas. So while spending some time riding my bike in central Texas, I a within town outside of Boston called Fredericksburg. And it got me kind of thinking about, you know, what would this kind of look like in Colorado as things start to, you know, take shape and form. And, uh, ended up coming through the town of Trinidad, which is three hours south of Denver, three hours north of Albuquerque. So it's essentially right between the two of them, uh, right on the [inaudible] a corridor and it's an interesting area of the state in that it was sort of the undiscovered forgotten, made fun of unheard of place to go spend time, uh, area of the state. And as I started to look around, I thought to myself, this might be a place that it's going to keep them some growth and activity moving forward as a state car to becomes more popular. And when I first got here, you know, I'm more of a mountain biker. I knew that the, the mountain biking was not going to be super strong because of just the history of the area, a lot of private property, but also too, there's just wasn't a much of a cycling culture. But even a little bit of time that I've been able to spend here over the last two and a half years, I've been pleasantly surprised about the wealth of opportunities and areas to explore, especially on a bicycle. And a couple of years ago I had been doing some consulting work with the local parks and rec department and this idea of developing a product around gravel sites and really kind of jumped out at me just to kind of also take another step back. I, I come out of the advertising industry, consumer research insights trends. I'm really adept at looking at things that are happening and kind of understanding where things are gonna sort of go from there. And um, so I applied those, does that skillset to developing some cycling opportunities in this region. And, and uh, so recently in this, uh, beginning of this year in 2019, working with the Colorado tourism office with able to be in a position to create a second tourism and campaign for this region, specifically focused on the gravel category. And had you started riding gravel bikes herself at that point? You know, I, you know, I say yes because it's, it's funny, right? Cause the cycling industry, it's always been really good at coming up with new categories and products that, you know, say no, this is like the thing that you want to have or this is the direction you want to go sort of thing. So I feel like raffles and we've kind of been there, but at the same time it's never really had this sort of focus of a genre or a segment of cycling, um, like it has in the last several years. So I mean beyond my, my mouth, I can have a Tory by, uh, cyclecross bike and was, you know, just definitely somebody who likes to explore and in was open to, you know, just going out and riding dirt roads. So it was happening. It was sort of natural. But when I started to see, you know, that gravel was really starting to pick up speed and speed, uh, it was starting to get a lot of popularity and following, then that's when I started saying to myself, you know why? Like this is more than just something that you kind of just do because you just want to have fun and explore. It's actually becoming something a little more serious. That's interesting that you took your sort of professional background, your ability to analyze trends and started to see like, hey, the type of terrain which maybe isn't super technical or accessible as a pure mountain biker in Trinidad combined with this trend of drop bar off road activity happening in the bike industry came together to create an opportunity that you might not otherwise have pursued. Yeah, no, it is it interesting in Trinidad because going back to the mountain biking piece, um, so it turned out it's an interesting place. It's, it's going on or a lot of transition right now. It's a rural town. You said a population of 10,000. It's the largest campus in the largest county in Colorado with a total of 15,000 people all together. Uh, so it really has a lot of open space and little crowd. So the cycling community is fairly small here to begin with. I and the mountain biking, it's going to take some time. We, we've actually had some really cool things happen here in the recent months. Uh, the state of Colorado, along with the city of Trinidad, the Nature Conservancy and the trust republic land. It's actually just purchased a 19,000 plus Acre ranch, three miles south of the town. It actually borders the, yeah, so we're really close to the New Mexico border and the border actually goes through the property itself. And so that's something that's going to happen over the next several years, but it's just going to take a lot of work and resources because you know, building trail is a pretty labor intensive sort of scenario. However, uh, there is also a lot of dirt roads already existing on this property, so it's actually going to be something that's going to fold into the overall offering that the county has. Um, the interesting thing is this here is that we have 1500 miles of county road. Uh, when I looked at that number, I thought to myself, I'm like, you know, I know that that's not unique necessarily, but that I feel like that's pretty distinct. And that's a way of kind of talking about why you could be a destination. Because the reality is, is if there's going of your Rick graveled like destination and has to be in a world sort of setting because it, you know, the urban is constantly under the pressure of development. Rose are being lost, can you subdivisions that are being brought in. And so this idea that, you know, the southeastern portion of the state could possibly become a destination to ride a gravel bike because of the fact of its rural setting and it's dirt roads you can't really appealing. And it was really great because at the same time it was infrastructure was already in place. You know, going back to the mountain biking, you know? Right. It costs money to build trust. You've got to get grants, you've got to get, you know, a local buying from your government and all these things that go along with it. But, uh, with gravel, it's really about using existing resources already in place. And, and southeast Colorado is a place where, I mean, it's remote, it's got back country. Uh, it's got the history, you've got scenery, has got culture. It's got a very dynamic sort of, um, things on the plate and give it some substance and worthy of a meal for, for a cyclist, I get to say, right? Yeah. When I got your email and we had a couple of back and forth, I started thinking about, well what are the things in my mind that made a great cycling destination? And I came up with three things and I, the first one was the obvious, which is great writing, but information about the writing. So the available easy availability of roots. The second thing was a cycling, ambiance and a cycling infrastructure, right? I want to, I want to be able to go to a bike shop and get equipment that I need. I want there to be a vibe in town around cycling, even if it's subtle. And the third thing we're events and the reason why I listed events is cause I've, I felt like having events in the community gave people a taste of it and then would make them want to come back. So I'm curious as you, your vision for building out this community and this destination around Trinidad, of those three building blocks, where are you at with each of them? And do you agree with that at all? No, I think you're absolutely right and, uh, in all of this because, uh, you know, we, we've seen it already happened with the mountain bike destination in the road bike destination and each of those stages is found there. Um, I think for me right now with Trinidad where I see it, I think three of those four already, uh, very strongly in place. The fourth is going to take a little bit more of a, um, bit of time. But I think what's interesting is going, cause, you know, you talk about information, you, the availability of information is so fast now. We are such a digitally forward a society that, uh, whereas you know, 15, even 15, 20 years ago, it took a little bit of time. You know, maybe you read it in a magazine or there was a war, you know, word of mouth has been around forever, but there wasn't this sort of critical mass sort of way of like finding information. You're learning about new things. So, um, going back to the Colorado Tourism Office, uh, initiatives that we started at the start of the year. So the campaign is called explore last time dimensions, that dirt series. And, um, I was able to, to create a website, explore Las animas.com and then also start to populate it with content and, um, go out and, uh, get content that we'll be able to speak to people who may entice people to come here. So that would be through photography and video. Uh, right now I am working on film portions of this so that there isn't any films necessarily yet, but we've definitely gotten about three months worth of photography. Content is being pushed out through Instagram and the Facebook and your social media channels and giving people information, um, about where to go. And, and, and that's something I, I, uh, I really took the time to, to, to look at and figure out how I could, you know, best articulate what the writing opportunities look like and where you could go. And so, uh, I, I essentially created 26 different routes. They vary in length. He, there's a section, there would be 25 or less miles and then there's a 40 year last and then a 50 to 75, 75 plus 100 plus. And in the end I ended up with 16 over 1600 miles worth of routes and they're all now on ride with gps, Strava as well as ride spot that people for bikes. Yeah. Well I thought that was awesome. I put a big check mark versus, uh, around information available with your project because the site is great. The, the roots are divided amongst different lengths and there's great information. So if you were to land in that area, you, you know, you have more miles than you can do in a week easily. Yeah, exactly. You know what, it's funny too because I noticed that a little bit overwhelmed because so many people know little about Trinidad in general. It's, it's super interesting. The printed ad was probably one of the first, uh, communities, families in the state of Colorado. I believe it was 1862. Uh, it was where the Santa Fe trail came through. So we have, uh, uh, you know, this idea of traffic coming through here and then the railroad came through. And then of course the interstate though though we have this like traveler mentality, but it also had a lack of people over, especially over the last 15 years, who would actually get off the highway and look at what was here. And I think that that's what's the beauty of bicycles and how popular they are and, and, uh, how appealing they are to people. Just say it pushes people into places that they didn't think they would go into. So, you know, the, the mindset from the, from the Gecko was this was all about discovery and exploring. And so could I added that is where the great writing comes out of, right? Because the people who, you know, go down that road, they tend to have experiences and those experiences become great memories and those great memories become the things that they talk about with other people. So, uh, that's why I think for great writing pieces that we have that it's just a lot of people don't know about it necessarily. But with that information, we're really going to highlight that and, and, uh, give people a chance to get out and experience it for themselves. And then lastly, you were dot. You were talking about events do it. I think, um, we've been fortunate in that there actually has been an event that's been going on here for about five years now. It's called the Pony Express one 16. Uh, this year we actually had them, the largest field that takes place in mid May. Uh, it was started by a gentleman named Phyllis for, uh, Schweitzer, who he runs a copy off to be saddles. And then, uh, the interesting thing with him was that he was a longtime competitor in the Lego 100 as well as the Berkey Byner, uh, a cross country ski race here in Minnesota for a number of years. She's done a ton of events and he came down here on his own in 2012 and started scoping out the area and realize that he could, uh, create a, uh, a course that would be, you know, really in line with what was happening with gravel. So he's actually got a hundred mile force. It's about seven miles outside, starts an n seven miles outside of town. And uh, just last, uh, the last one, we had some really great feedback from people because it was for many of them who was their first time. So I think you're really are spot on with the events because the events are what introduce people to an area. Is there anything, you know, sometimes it's just a, you know, a friendly note from a friend and be like, Hey, let's go to this place. Let's go check this out. You know, I've never there, but let's just go see what it's all about. And you know, they come and then all of a sudden it kind of spirals from there because they start talking to other people and then we go back to the social media police peace and critical mass starts to accumulate. Yeah. Then I think that the hardest piece to kind of get to come together in a small rural community is that kind of cycling on Beyonce and infrastructure, but that, I think it comes with opportunity. Right? You know, you look at the stories around Emporia, Kansas who had dirty Kanza and how, you know, it's clear that in the bars in the, obviously in the bike shops, but the cafes, they've just started to embrace the fact that cycling is a big part of the identity of that community and it's developed this kind of world worldwide reputation for being a cycling hub. And I, and I think you know, business owners are not going to get there by themselves unless they happen to be a cyclist. But the sheer opportunity of meeting your customers where they're at, I think is where a rural community like Trinidad may see an opportunity and you'll start to see some of those cycling elements and fused in cafes and bars and different elements. Yeah, absolutely. I need at this point, I, it feels like cycling general are essentially a key ingredient in the blueprint of the economic development, revitalization of town. You know, I, I, you know, it takes to start seeing bike lanes, you start seeing signage, you start seeing people on bikes and it really starts to dovetail into this activity that happens in a community that is both positive and economically beneficial. And so, uh, you know, right now the state of Colorado in general is, is very much focused on addressing the urban rural divide. And, uh, the cycling pieces is a big piece of it because it, it brings something fresh. It brings, you know, like I say, activity in a way where it inspires people to either get out on a bicycle or maybe start a business and, and, and cater to those people. So yeah, it's going to be interesting. We do have one bike shop in town's been here for a really long time. It's called ultimate sports, uh, in nutrition. And um, you know, they're, they're the only shop here but this is definitely a tower you could virtually see, you know, several bike shops. I mean you can go to a little town like saliva, which is three hours, two and a half, three hours away from us. Uh, definitely more known for it's mountain biking, but you know, that's account or it's smaller than Trinidad, 6,000, but they have a seven bike shops. You know, that's pretty impressive. Yeah. Well this is really interesting discussion. One I, I really truly appreciate you reaching out to me and kind of putting it in my mind cause I do think it's very interesting for our listeners to think about and for the listeners out there, let me know, Ping me if you think your neck of the woods is a gravel destination and let us know if kind of the criteria that we laid out make sense. So I'll put the link to the website in the show notes so everybody can check it out. It definitely sounds like a pretty exciting region. And like I said on the website, there's plenty of rides, just spoonfed Tisa if you're within driving distance, definitely put it on your summer tour. And if it's a flight away, maybe look at the pony express one 60 as an event to be the cornerstone of your trip. But get out there and check out Trinidad and let, uh, let one know what you think. Yeah. I encourage everyone to come and check this place out because I think it's one of those places where right now everything that you wouldn't think it would be, but you want because you're on a bravo. It's got all the things that you want to, you know, find and, and see on a ride, you know, from wildlife to scenery, uh, to just, you know, history, you know, history is the big thing. I think that really distinctly puts us in a, in a different sort of place because a history, something that you know, uh, you see and you feel when you're, when you're around it. So that's the beauty of it. Well, that's super exciting. Thanks for the timeline. Okay. Thank you, Craig. I appreciate it.

TWRA is excited to announce we now have a Moment Of Freedom fishing pier on the Tellico River in the shadows of the Tellico Hatchery. This week we are hanging out with Mime Barnes, Regional Information Specialist, Mark Thurman, Regional Fisheries Program Manager, and Philip Earhart, Cherokee National Forest Biologist. We will chat about this new pier and how this project came to life, partnerships with the National Forest Service and opportunities in and around the Cherokee National Forest. To learn more about the Moment Of Freedom Campaign visit tnwildlife.org. All this and more right here on Tennessee WildCast. www.tnwildlife.org #tnwildlife #itswhatwedo

 We expand on some of the AGENDA 21 topics raised in episode #ana021. We expand on Smart Growth, libertarian approaches to preserving nature, and Public-Private Partnerships.  Use hashtag #ana022 to reference this episode in a tweet, post, or comment  View full show notes at http://anarchitecturepodcast.com/ana022. ----more----   Intro #ana021 was like drinking from a fire hose. This episode is smooth sippin'. Discussion Revisiting Smart Growth Rosa Koire - Throws out the baby with the bathwater A better criticism of Smart Growth, from Strong Towns Smart Growth is planned growth? Babcock Ranch, FL - The first 100% solar city Agenda 21 doesn't exist? Libertarian approaches to preservation American Prairie Reserve (APR) Are the Rockefellers still relevant? Economic power vs. coercive power - gutting local ranching industries The Totality of Morality Putting price on the land Federal lands - preserved for resource extraction Bison will always be cattle to me Federal land reclamation movement Market distortion whack-a-mole - homestead size limits and grazing rights Homestead claims and statutes of limitation Where Locke is lacking - Homesteading for the use of preservation Preservation requires active defense against trespassers and poachers Homesteading applied on an ongoing basis? What constitutes abandonment? The National Forest Service preserves Forestry, not Forests Preventing land hoarding Market forces - balancing diverse interests Oil & Gas fracking developments - access roads surrounded by ranch and wild land High value, small footprint Oil & Gas companies are more bureaucratic than governments Nobody wants an oil spill Safety is not binary - it's about managing risk Barrow Island Nature Preserve Public Private Partnerships (PPP) The efficiency of a private corporation with the pocketbook and social oversight Bike Share - profit sharing with the city Privatization vs. Privateering Privateering - pirates licensed by the king Replacing a crappy government monopoly with a crappy private monopoly Monopoly and the economic calculation problem Our Solution - Opt-in trusts "Privatization" is a confusing term Government ownership is not "public" muh voting The "will of the people" is not up for a vote We need a new term - Publicization? Divestiture? De-statalizing? Conclusion It's not productive to fight Agenda 21 Tax breaks vs. fighting Agenda 21 Burden of proof is on the person arguing against a tax break We're agnostic to ends - just use voluntary, non-coercive means Links/Resources Strong Towns - "Please, I'm not a Smart Growth Advocate" Blog Post Podcast Episode Babcock Ranch American Prairie Reserve (APR) PERC - Property and Environment Research Center APR article by Shawn Regan Rockefeller Brothers Fund Divested from Oil Stephan Kinsella Talk at 2019 NH Liberty Forum - "How to Think About Property" Tim's question is at 38:50 Chevron's Barrow Island Nature Preserve Divvy - Bike Share Public-Private Partnership in Chicago Privateering Rothbard discusses the Economic Calculation Problem (from Man, Economy, and State chapter 9)Our analysis serves to expand the famous discussion of the possibility of economic calculation under socialism, launched by Professor Ludwig von Mises over 40 years ago. Mises, who has had the last as well as the first word in this debate, has demonstrated irrefutably that a socialist economic system cannot calculate, since it lacks a market, and hence lacks prices for producers’ and especially for capital goods.Now we see that, paradoxically, the reason why a socialist economy cannot calculate is not specifically because it is socialist! Socialism is that system in which the State forcibly seizes control of all the means of production in the economy. The reason for the impossibility of calculation under socialism is that one agent owns or directs the use of all the resources in the economy. It should be clear that it does not make any difference whether that one agent is the State or one private individual or private cartel. Whichever occurs, there is no possibility of calculation anywhere in the production structure, since production processes would be only internal and without markets. There could be no calculation, and therefore complete economic irrationality and chaos would prevail, whether the single owner is the State or private persons. Anarchitecture - Public Space Series  

Purchasing a tree from a lot is certainly more convenient than cutting your own tree. We find ourselves balancing between an investment in money and an investment in time. It is the time investment that creates memories. If you like the show, please check out our Official Morning Mindset Merchandise! Episode Transcription [INTRO] ♫ Trenches by Pop Evil ♫ *Alex* Welcome to Morning Mindset. A daily dose of practical wit and wisdom with a professional educator & trainer, Amazon best selling author, United States Marine, Television, and Radio host, Paul G. Markel. Each episode will focus on positive and productive ways to strengthen your mindset and help you improve your relationships, career goals, and overall well-being. Please welcome your host; Paul G. Markel. *Professor Paul* Hello and welcome back to the Morning Mindset podcast. I am your host Paul Markel. Thank you. Once again for being a part of our listening audience. I truly appreciate it, and if I say that too often if I thank you too often. Well, what you can do to get me to stop is write me a letter to add MorningMindsetPodcast.com and say “Paul, stop thanking me. I don't want you to thank me anymore. Alright, but until then I'm going to continue to thank you. During the previous episode, we talked about memories as Christmas gifts. - It was most of us have a lot of stuff at least I do. I have a lot of stuff and I don't really need stuff and I think that I'm at that time in my life where I'd rather have the memories than the stuff. So what did we do here just recently? Well my family and I. We went out to the woods. Yes, that's right. We went up into the mountains into the national forest, and we harvested our own Christmas tree. That's right. I bought the tag, and we stalked and hunted and took it out. Now. I probably could have been doing this when I was younger when I lived in Ohio or even Mississippi because I mean, let's face it. - There are pine trees, evergreen trees, just about everywhere in America, but here in the west the National Forest Service actually encourages people to go into the woods and harvest their own Christmas trees and you go into the office and you give them a ten dollar. They give you a yellow or pink or orange tag, whatever. - It happens to be that year and little pamphlet instructions on how to harvest a Christmas tree in case you couldn't figure it out for yourself. Yes indeed. They even tell you what you should take along with you when you go out into the woods to get your own Christmas tree. So we did this is the second year in a row that we have done that last year. We did it and it was quite the adventure. Yes, indeed. - We did not realize just how much snow was actually going to be on the ground already and we went up above 8000. I guess close to 9,000 feet to get her Christmas tree last year. This year we were a little bit more worldly and a little bit wiser and we did not Venture as far up into the mountains, but we were still I guess around 8,000 maybe 8,500 feet up and up there. The snow was about two feet deeper. - So way deeper than it is in town. So but we did we went up we part we went out and we got our tree now is the. Christmas tree the tree that we took out of the woods does it look as full and attractive as a Christmas tree lot tree those that are specifically grown on a Christmas tree farm. They were planted and raised and basically genetically designed to be fluffy full Christmas trees. The answer is no. - The tree actually looks like a native evergreen tree that you would get from the forest in the mountains.  So the question that many people may ask is would you rather will would you rather have an attractive farm-grown tree and some people will say yes. Absolutely, I don't want some tree that looks like it was growing on the side of a mountain. I want a big fat full tree, and you can go and spend your money and you can stop on the way home from work tomorrow night or in the afternoon. - You can drive by the Christmas tree lot and you can exchange $30 or $40 or $50 or however much they're charging for trees and you can take one home and that's great. That's fantastic.  Or you can invest your time, and what we did is we spent way more. We invested much more time in our Christmas tree Harvest than we did money, and when you invest the time you're creating memories, and it's up to you. - You can do whatever you want. I'm not telling you that you have to, you know, be Clark Griswold and trudge out into the Wilderness to harvest your own Christmas tree. Remember this if you are going to do that you need a. I saw of some sort whether a chainsaw or what I use is I actually have it's a manual chainsaw. It's one of those pack saws those emergency saws. It has two handles on it. It looks like a chainsaw chain, but it has handles. I'll basically they're leather. They're not in the leather nylon straps and you just hold them and you cut the tree like that and that's what I did. - We took along a tow rope this year case we had to pull the tree out of the woods, but it turned out that it wasn't that heavy and Zach the shipping ogre just carried it out on his shoulders. But that was our Christmas tree hunt and we didn't spend a whole lot of money, but we invested some time made it probably took us between the time. We left the house and got up into the mountains and got back. - We probably had, you know to three hours invested or so and of course my I also had to buy the family lunch. Because I'm the dad and since we all went out into the cold everyone wanted to stop and have a warm lunch inside on the way back which is fine, which is fine so that when you are adventuring out when you're venturing out this Christmas think about that. Will you do you want to spend the money? - Or do you want to spend the time and I know sometimes it's just easier to spend the money because you don't feel like you want to waste the time or take the time but every once in a while is I would suggest that you purposely and deliberately invest the time instead of the money, and make those memories that we were talking about previously. Alright, ladies and gentlemen, I've got much more for you coming up. - I'll be back tomorrow with another one and the as the Christmas season quickly approaches. If there is someone in your life that you feel would benefit from the Morning Mindset podcast or the Morning Mindset. You can either go to Morning Mindset podcast.com follow the links and get them the book Morning Mindset: a 30 Day Plan for a More Positive and Productive Life. The book is available as a signed copy from our official website. You can also get a coffee mug. - A motivational coffee mug that you can look at every morning when you're listening to this. That's pretty cool. There's a poster on the store, there's a coffee cup on the store or there's the book on the store and if you don't want any of those. You just go to amazon.com and type in the word Paul Markel. That's me, M-A-R-K-E-L and all of the books that I have written will pop up in front of you including the Morning Mindset book. - So get it by it. I'm sure that as you listen to the ship plenty of time to get it before Christmas if you want to give it to someone as a gift. Alright, ladies and gentlemen, that's your instructions go forth and do good things. I am your host Paul Markel, and I'll talk to you again real soon. [OUTRO] ♫ Trenches by Pop Evil ♫ *Alex* Thank you for spending time with us today. To get show notes, submit a topic request, for more from your host Paul G. Markel, visit MorningMindsetPodcast.com. That’s MorningMindsetPodcast.com. Please leave a review of this podcast on your favorite podcast player, we appreciate your time & effort, and we look forward to reading your honest feedback.

On this week’s episode we explore the abduction of Travis Walton. Walton claims to have been taken onto an alien craft while working for the National Forest Service. Is this a conspiracy or cover up? Did he make the whole thing up for publicity? Visit our website to check out the latest news, blogs or to leave your comments. https://twospookybroads.com Interested in helping us out? Check out our new Patreon page: https://patreon.com/twospookybroads

On this episode of Bayfield County Wild Co-hosts Nancy Christopher and Mary Motiff, director of Bayfield County Tourism, speak with Kevin Schram, president of the Chequamegon Chapter of the North Country Trail Association. They discuss how Kevin’s subchapter handles the maintenance and promotion of their portion of the trail running through Bayfield and Ashland counties, as well as other upcoming area events throughout June.  Waterfalls and Hiking Trails in Bayfield County  Bayfield County is rich in natural wonders, so we invite everyone to get out and enjoy nature to its fullest this summer!  Houghton Falls – A popular location for visitors for its beauty and natural resources, Houghton Falls’ eco system is delicate. Visitors are encouraged to adhere to the signage and stay on the designated trails to avoid additional damage to the area. As part of the Bayfield Regional Conservancy, helps the Town of Bayview to manage and preserve the falls and surrounding land for the future.  At Lost Creek Falls near Cornucopia, the Forestry and Parks Department has made some improvements to the trail, including the addition of a boardwalk. It's approximately 1.5 miles to the falls, Stay tuned for more developments at Lost Creek Falls later this year, with the addition of a bridge that leads to a picnic area and steps to get down to the falls.  Hiking Trails – Bayfield County has over 35 different hiking trails of varying lengths and difficulty levels. From three-quarters-of-a-mile on the Gil Larson Nature Trail around the Old Iron Bridge in Bayfield, to a much longer hike on the North Country Trail, hikes are noted as easy to moderate for both rookie and experienced hikers.  Interactive Map – Did you know Bayfield County Tourism offers an online interactive map – usable on mobile devices or computers – that can assist you in planning your next hike? Click our link, then click on “Play,” followed by “Non-Motorized Trails.” You can then zoom in and see trail details throughout Bayfield County! If you’d prefer a printed brochure, please contact our office and we’ll be happy to send one your way.  North Country Trail  America’s longest among 14 national scenic trails, the North Country Trail runs through seven states, from the plains to the east coast. The North Country Trail Association (NCTA) is a national organization based in Michigan. Its various subchapters in each state are responsible for maintaining and promoting its particular section of the trail. Kevin Schram and the volunteer members of the NCTA’s Chequamegon Chapter handle the section of the trail that runs through both Bayfield and Ashland counties. The Wisconsin portion of the North Country Trail offers continuous wilderness hiking for over 130 miles.  To get a sense of the depth of the 4,600-mile-long North Country Trail, if you headed west from Bayfield County you could hike about halfway into North Dakota. Heading east, the trail stretches as far as New York. Kevin hopes that in the future, the trail will link up with the Appalachian Trail in Vermont. Only a dozen people have hiked the entire trail, with half accomplishing this journey over different periods of time. These individuals are referred to as section hikers. The other six are considered through-hikers, who start at one end and walk continuously to the other. There are plenty of day hikes on the North Country Trail in Bayfield County for those who want to do a more casual hike, though.  The work Kevin and his team accomplish includes re-routes around wet areas, removal of fallen trees on the trail and maintenance on bridges and other structures to ensure safety for all hikers. He speaks highly of the Wisconsin portion of the trail for backpacking, as two different wilderness areas allow camping anywhere you desire, if the location is at least 200 feet from a fresh water source.   Currently, the Chequamegon Chapter of the NCTA is working with the National Forest Service to construct some back country campsites, which will help to make the North Country Trail in Wisconsin a premiere backpacking destination. Kevin hopes to have a campsite every seven miles, but it will be a slow process. The National Forest Service will hopefully approve at least two sites in 2018, and Kevin’s group could have them built by fall. He says that ideally, all campsites would be listed on maps so visitors can better plan their stay.  Anyone who hikes the North Country Trail can register on the NCTA website to get special patches that recognize when individuals have hiked 50 or 100 miles of the trail. Kevin says there are fun, interpretive and themed hikes offered as well. June’s hike focuses on finding and identifying different species of birds. For event info, follow the Wisconsin chapter of the NCTA on Facebook.  June Events  Summer is heating up with a full list of events in Bayfield County! Throughout June: World-famous recording artists like Brandi Carlile, Jackson Browne, Buddy Guy, Keb Mo and Kenny G will perform under the stars this month at Big Top Chautauqua. Tickets are available here and for more information, check out last month’s podcast with Big Top Operations Manager Phillip Anich.  Through June 10: Admire over 50,000 blooming daffodils, a vibrant mosaic of roadside lupine & rolling orchards of apple blossoms bursting into rosy color during our month-long celebration of spring, Bayfield In Bloom! Take a self-guided garden tour and attend the annual Blessing of the Fleet.  June 9: The 8th Annual Summerfest Spider Lake Run begins and ends at the Iron River Community Center. Registration for this 10K, 5K or 2-mile walk/run is available here.  June 7 – 10: Legendary Waters Resort and Casino will host the RV, Sport & Boat Show. Check out all the toys to make your summer fun, from hot tubs to motorcycles.    June 21: Kayak the Namekagon allows you to experience the wonders of the area with the leadership of a naturalist. Paddlers of all experience levels are welcome.  June 23: The Superior Vistas Bike Tour celebrates its 14th anniversary this year with a leisurely ride supported by different route choices. Whether you want to ride 10 miles or 100, you’ll see incredible views of Lake Superior from the hills surrounding it.   June 24 – July 8: Try your hand at the art of glass blowing with a class at Oulu Glass, located north of Iron River and south of Port Wing in the northwest corner of Bayfield County.   We also encourage you to get out on the water by either renting a boat (pontoon, sailboat, motorboat or kayak), chartering a sailboat, taking a boat tour of the mainland caves or taking an Apostle Island cruise! Any excuse is great to check out the big lake or the many inland lakes this summer.   July Preview  Bayfield is the Berry Capital of Wisconsin, with the biggest selection of strawberries, blueberries and raspberries in the state. We’ll discuss all the orchards, berry farms (and wineries) to visit in Bayfield County on next month’s episode!  If you want to learn more about Bayfield County, be sure to subscribe to our podcasts. Get a little WILD at travelbayfieldcounty.com, and don’t forget to explore our interactive map.  --  Affiliate Notes  Pine Point Lodge — Located in the heart of the Chequamegon-Nicolet National Forest, this family-owned resort offers relaxation, recreation and activities all year long on the Pike Lake Chain. Clean and comfortable cabins, a friendly tavern and many local attractions await you, as well as over 500 feet of lakeside excitement with free kayak, canoe, paddle board and wind surfer rentals to all guests.  Drumming Woods B&B — Newly constructed just outside of Cable — adjacent to thousands of acres of public land for enjoyment during all seasons — this bed and breakfast provides casual elegance and a warm atmosphere for all visitors. Whether you enjoy hiking, canoeing, fishing, hunting or trap and skeet shooting, there’s something for everyone.   PJ’s Cabin Store — Conveniently located on the corner of County Y and Lake Road near the Eau Claire Chain of Lakes, be sure to stop by while you’re in Barnes for everything from ice to bait and everything in between. It’s not just a gas station and convenience store – it’s a bar and grill, too, and the staff can help with hunting & fishing licenses, plus insider tips on area information.   Pinehurst Inn — Surrounded by beautiful gardens and bordered by Pike’s Creek, Pinehurst Inn offers comfort and tranquility. Recognized as one of the Top 10 Eco-Friendly Inns in America by BedAndBreakfast.com, the Pinehurst In is committed to environmental sustainability while providing a magnificent, rejuvenating stay, nestled among soaring white pines. 

Steve Van Valin, CEO and founder of Culturology is an innovation expert and employee engagement strategist. He works with leaders who believe a high-performance culture is the key to unlocking a competitive advantage.As the leader of QVC’s culture and brand development strategy, Steve specialized in shaping an engaged high-performance culture that propelled QVC’s to become an E-commerce global powerhouse. Steve led the strategy to align the development of teams and employees at all levels to QVC’s Values, known collectively as The QVC Difference.Steve has more than 25 years of experience developing winning culture and innovation strategy. Some of his clients include NASA, The Philadelphia Phillies, SAP, Boeing, Lincoln Financial Group, Goodwill Industries, and The National Forest Service. He is a talented keynote speaker who sparks insights and inspires action.Learn More: www.CulturologyUSA.comTransform. Ignite. Disrupt. with Steven L. Bluehttps://businessinnovatorsradio.com/transform-ignite-disrupt/

Steve Van Valin, CEO and founder of Culturology is an innovation expert and employee engagement strategist. He works with leaders who believe a high-performance culture is the key to unlocking a competitive advantage.As the leader of QVC’s culture and brand development strategy, Steve specialized in shaping an engaged high-performance culture that propelled QVC’s to become an E-commerce global powerhouse. Steve led the strategy to align the development of teams and employees at all levels to QVC’s Values, known collectively as The QVC Difference.Steve has more than 25 years of experience developing winning culture and innovation strategy. Some of his clients include NASA, The Philadelphia Phillies, SAP, Boeing, Lincoln Financial Group, Goodwill Industries, and The National Forest Service. He is a talented keynote speaker who sparks insights and inspires action.Learn More: www.CulturologyUSA.comTransform. Ignite. Disrupt. with Steven L. Bluehttps://businessinnovatorsradio.com/transform-ignite-disrupt/

This week Gary and Gary record on the trail in Washington's Kettle River Range. They narrate their adventure of wheelin into the wild, and wild it got with another #TreeStump mishap. They discuss dispersed camping on National Forest Service lands and how it has helped them explore further into the wild. And get your #AirGuitar ready for another Jeep of the Week. Tune in to hear Gary's mishap and the wild ride they took. All this and more in a fresh new episode of the Northwest Jeepcast.   Info on the trails discussed in this episode: ** King/Mack Mountains || ** Twin Sisters || ** Owl Mountain || ** Thompson Ridge || ** Colville National Forest  Motor Vehicle Use Map (MVUM) || ** Forest Service Dispersed Camping Rules --Visit Northridge4x4.com for all your Jeep needs and listen for a special coupon code. Start your Amazon shopping experience at http://nwjeepcast.com/amazon to help support this show. And follow us @nwjeepcast on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook.

In this episode, Worlds of Gamespace kicks off the summer camping/hiking season, and what better game to explore the rugged outdoors than Firewatch (Campo Santo, 2015). In this episode we discuss the parallels between the art style of Firewatch and the New Deal era WPA posters; as well as the architectural styles of the USDA Forest Service. Have a hot dog and give it a listen!

National Forest Service veteran Lori Hisek joins Kathryn and Emma to talk about season 2, episode 10, “Hunting Trip”. We discuss the concessions women often make to advance their careers, how technology has changed the National Forest Service, and these two vegetarians learn a LOT about hunting culture. We also add Victoria Woodhull, spiritual medium, stockbroker, and the first woman to run for president, to our Wall of Inspirational Women.

Sara Gross and Kelly O'Mara are joined in the Locker Room by Aparna Rajagopal-Durbin and Ava Holliday, the founders of The Avarna Group. Aparna worked in outdoor education and organized a project in Alaska called Expedition Denali to inspire diversity in the outdoors. She then teamed up with Eva Holliday who has a PhD in American Environmentalism, Equity and Inclusion to form The Avarna Group, which works with organizations such as the National Forest Service and the YMCA helping them with very specific tools, not just to talk about diversity, equity and inclusion but suggests what can be done to change their cultures from the ground up with the aim of getting a more diverse group of people outside. For more conversations from the world of women's sports visit www.wispsports.com and follow us on social media @WiSP Sports.

Dale Burke—owner of Stevensville’s Stoneydale Press and former Missoulian Outdoor and Environmental reporter—talks about the ways in which local environmentalists and the University of Montana School of Forestry reshaped national timber policy on public lands.

Dr. Bazian is co-founder of Zaytuna College, an innovative Muslim liberal arts college in Berkeley and the first accredited Muslim undergraduate college in the U.S. He is also senior lecturer in Depts. of Near Eastern and Ethnic Studies at UC Berkeley.TRANSCRIPTSpeaker 1:Method to the madness is next. Speaker 2:No one's listening to method to the madness. At Biweekly Public Affairs show on k a l ex Berkeley celebrating bay area innovators. Today you see Berkeley Student Anna Sterling interviews Dr Houghton Bosnian cofounder of say Tuna College, [00:00:30] the first accredited Muslim college in the United States where he teaches Islamic law and theology. He's also senior lecturer in Near Eastern Studies and ethnic studies here at UC Berkeley. Speaker 3:Okay. Speaker 1:Welcome to the show Dr. Horton Bosnian. We're here today to talk about the Tuna College, which is here in Berkeley, [00:01:00] uh, the first accredited Muslim college in the United States. What was the impetus for starting the college? Speaker 4:Thank you for having me first, um, to the show, the impetus for the college cam as a result of the increasing a number of Muslim communities both here in the bay area and across the country, and the need to address the multifaceted challenges that are meeting the communities from, uh, [00:01:30] the growing number of centers that require, uh, individuals who are trained both in Islamic tradition, but also aware of the various, uh, issues that come out of the, uh, American context and living within such a rabid, fast paced society. Uh, so the impetus for it is, uh, comes out from really addressing this vast need. Second aspect is that the ability of religious leaders and leaders to come from [00:02:00] abroad, uh, was increasingly, uh, very challenging in terms of attempt to meet the needs. Uh, and I think this is also a normative process that other religious communities historically have, uh, been through. Speaker 4:The Catholics used to get there, uh, ministers and priests from, uh, Ireland or from Italy. And as the patterns of immigration settlements and second generation, third generation, uh, the need was outstripping the ability [00:02:30] to provide them, bring individuals from, uh, abroad as well as the fact that individuals were born in this country required a person who could come in with an understanding of what are the particular needs that might not be transferable from other countries, whether it's Italy or Ireland at the time and for the Muslim community. Likewise, uh, that was something that they were facing Speaker 1:and it started out as a seminary originally and then became a Muslim college, Speaker 4:[00:03:00] a Liberal Arts College. What's the mix there? Why was that move important? Initially we were thinking about the seminary in order to train individuals in a seminary type of a setting with the specifically religious focus exclusively. But as we looked at where the community's at, the top of training that is needed to have individuals finish a seminary degree, which is a graduate degree. [00:03:30] We felt that the prerequisites almost are four to five years in the making and are a pipeline of individuals who might come into a very narrowly structured a seminary program would be a challenge considering where we are at in terms of the United States. So we had to step back and think of a college with a liberal arts degree. And then from that we hope that students who graduate, we'll rotate a number of fields [00:04:00] and one of the fields that they might go into, it will be a seminary type, whether to go to GTU, Hartford seminary or some of the other seminaries around the country. Speaker 4:And also in the hope for us in the future to have a master phd program where students who want to be trained in a seminary setting can do so under the umbrella of the GTU Gray with theological union. So we had to step back in order for us to move forward and stepping back by setting up a this liberal arts [00:04:30] degree, we need students who have a strong hold in the Arabic language. So our students now have to finish five years of Arabic. So once they go into a seminary or graduate degree, they already have the prerequisites and they don't have to start from scratch. So that's the a shift in the strategy, not in the shift in what we are hoping to accomplish with a small subset of the graduates. And it's not open to just Muslims, it's open to everyone. Anyone who's interested in having [00:05:00] a liberal arts degree is welcome and hopefully when we get to the master phd track, likewise, anyone who wants to have a quality education is welcome. Speaker 4:I think we're at 50 55% women, 45% men. We're having some interest from Christian colleges that are interested in having a way to dialogue but also as a way to have education where they could send their students in there. So I think this will come. We had actually a a conference between our students and their students. So I think in our relationship [00:05:30] with GTU has been great. All of the nine different denominations at GTU have embraced us now with the two buildings that we own. We're both GTU on buildings that they sold to us. PSR sold us the LACAN building, which is at the corner and then the Prentice Kent School of Theology Corner, uh, building that yellow corner building Euclid, they did not bought it on the market. They actually up a project say we want to sell the building. You got to love Franciscans. Yeah. So, [00:06:00] so they sold us a building. Speaker 4:They invited at one and then when they, when we signed the contract, they had a, a dinner for us and one of the priests gave a lecture on Islam and on the wall they had a photograph of medical idol of Egypt and San Francis embracing because the assumption is that St Francis was one of the key figures that ended the crusades because he finished, he went and visited the medical idle in Egypt at the time and then came back to the pool. And as the pool to provide [00:06:30] a way for people to repent without having to go on a crusade. And that's what's the, a Franciscan sec developed out of San Francis visit to Egypt and his encounter with AMAG. So they had that post or that picture on the wall and they gave it as a gift to us as well. I didn't know that St Francis is my favorite saint. He's kind of like within the Catholic digital, he's accredited of shifting because without the possibility of having to go to some other place [00:07:00] to, to cleanse yourself and repent, then people were still being sent to the Crusades. So St Francis upon returning from Egypt, he actually asked for that to be the way. Yeah. And the pope gave him that. Speaker 1:Um, one thing that I thought was interesting on the website is it mention, it had a list of perennial faculty sort of citing, you know, a long list of Muslim thinkers and intellectuals. What's the purpose of sort of connecting to that past? What do you sort of hope to convey to the students of today living in Berkeley, [00:07:30] in the bay area? In the center Speaker 4:liberal education or Liberal Arts degree is rooted in the great books of the past. And therefore, even though that in our today fast paced culture, it seems that you are the center of the world. Uh, so we're trying to say that yes, you're the center of the world in one dimension, but everything that you think it's in, you has a long deray to it. Uh, all the way back from the Chinese words to Indian words, to the Greek, to the Romans, [00:08:00] to the Muslim civilization and so on. So it is rooted in linking back to the great traditions in great intellectual contribution, and then to see where these contributions are at by thinking of the perennial faculty or prenatal contribution, and then where you could add your own distinctive aspect upon or building upon what was done in the past. And I think it's a similar to the Catholic tradition. If you say, look at St Mary's College or uh, uh, San John's [00:08:30] and so on, the great books tradition is rooted in there. So in a similar way, we want to convey that there is a tradition within the Islamic pedagogical approach to think of these great books and how to link the students to that tradition Speaker 1:standing on the shoulders of giants. Absolutely. I noticed that this right now the college is around 50 to 60 students, about 60 students, just other Speaker 4:25 for this coming fall. Speaker 1:So it was sort of a tight knit community. What role does the larger [00:09:00] Muslim non Muslim community play at the college? Speaker 4:When we were thinking about where to locate the college, there were a number of possibilities. We had literally offers to go some other places around the country where the land would be almost free if, uh, actually they'll pay you to take it. Uh, we had a location where they had a full college set up with a gym, a swimming pool, housing that was for sale from a to Z. Literally youth pick up the key [00:09:30] and you have a college ready made. Uh, but you know, I assure you it was not one of those Trump's colleges. That was then what we were thinking is that to create a college, you need a hospitable environment. And in looking at many of us, the three founders were here in the bay area, in Mom's age, Hamza myself, that if you want to create a college from scratch, you have two major institutions in the bay area at Berkeley and Stanford. Speaker 4:And therefore by boarding the college next to a major [00:10:00] university, you get the synergy that is there as a result of the intellectual, uh, environment that is there. It also though is an existing Muslim student population that is at the surrounding university in Berkeley. I think approximately 800 Muslim students give or take are here. And then you also have a large Muslim population in the bay area. The study that I did on the bay area Muslim community is about 250,000 with some nine 90 centers in the region. So it is really [00:10:30] having a major intellectual hub in the bay area that is hospitable, that is embracing of diversity and inclusiveness. And that made the choice of the bay area, uh, a foregone conclusion to having the college located in here. Uh, the challenge once again is, uh, we have to compete with Twitter, Facebook, and Google in terms of prices of real estate and being able to really have the buildings are needed. Uh, one is to acquire [00:11:00] building, but also how to expand in the distant future. The major challenge is the cost effectiveness is very high, but once again, location, location, location, and that was one of the major factors. Speaker 1:And what's the average as a tuna student if there is, when are they typically from the bay area or Speaker 4:no, we're getting students from nationally, I think, uh, depends different class, uh, enrollment differ. But in general we get students from across the country, from Florida, from Michigan, from New York, uh, [00:11:30] from New Jersey, Ohio, California. We do have a segment of it. So it's, uh, really a plus section of the Muslim community in the United States. Speaker 1:And what do you hope that they, once they graduate, that they sort of put out into the world, what sort of skills do you hope they, that you've given them? Oh, our mission really is Speaker 4:about graduating morally committed leaders that grounded in Islamic tradition and conversant in the modern contemporary occurrence in our society. So what we want is for them [00:12:00] to lead in whichever place ever career track that they choose. We don't train students for a career. We try. Our education is a commitment to lifelong learning and for them to commit themselves to education as a value in itself. That that is the end. Education is an end by itself and not to think of education and utilitarian function. So we definitely, while we want them to be engaged in society in whichever field and profession [00:12:30] that is not the end of the degree, but rather it should be the beginning of their contribution to society and want them to also act morally and ethically in the society. Uh, so that's what we want them to be. That they are reflective of the grounding that we're giving them in the institution. Speaker 1:I think that idea of the morally committed leader is very interesting. I know that you, you founded the Islamophobia Research and documentation project here at Berkeley, as well as the Islamophobia Studies Journal [00:13:00] as well as you've also contributed a number of opinion columns, you know, about Trump and, and other issues surrounding Islamophobia with this rise of Islamophobic rhetoric, particularly on the campaign trail. What sort of shifts have any have happened at the college to sort of face these new crises? Speaker 4:Well, I don't think there is a shift in the college because I think our curriculum and education we offer, Eh, it will have to stand the test of time, whether [00:13:30] it's Trump or any other person that wants to use racism, discrimination, otherwise nation, uh, want to build a walls on the ground as well as intellectual walls. Our degree will stand the test of time. Now we are aware that we are in a highly tense period where a particular segment of the American society in particular white working class are being stoked into racism, [00:14:00] into discrimination, into pointing their finger at an other ad is the source of their, a loss of economic opportunity that their standard of living has declined, that they're outsourcing of their jobs have been undertaken earnestly from the 70s, 80s on ongoing. So instead of confronting the real issues and who is responsible, who was on the driver's seat, uh, the blame has been stoked strategically so as a wedge issue [00:14:30] to blame on the one hand Latinos that they are the ones that are undermining our economic, uh, opportunities. Speaker 4:Looking at the Muslim community and saying that, uh, this war on terrorism is basically not making us a strong looking at black life matters and the African American community in essence, by blaming them in really racist undertone, uh, by speaking that they are not carrying their weight, that a, there are depending on social welfare. All these are [00:15:00] buzzwords that are using cultural nuances to push a racist discourse and to try to imagine America of the past, uh, that is not tenable and trying to maintain a particular cluster of communities in the u s in a power at a time where the grounds have shifted tremendously. So we are aware of those. And the challenge for us is on the one hand, to document the period we are in terms of Islamophobia and what it's taken, but also how [00:15:30] to develop what I considered to be the new civil and human rights movement in this country that will reclaim the high ground and at the same time to undo the stalking of the white middle class and to actually develop a coalition that will address the largest segment and to point out what are the reasons of the challenges that we are having. Speaker 4:What are the challenges of outsourcing? What are the challenges of the 1% that is basically [00:16:00] running all the way to the bank many times over and then getting, being rescued by the collective taxpayers. So that's the, I would say if there's a single or challenge that is the challenge is how to create a new society, a base on a board that will hold everyone, uh, without anybody trying to book, uh, holes on the bottom of the hole for the ship to sink. And that's how we see the circumstances. And when, as a today's position and how have your students reacted? Well, they're engaged, they're engaged [00:16:30] both in terms of, part of our program requires that the students have to undertake, uh, community service hours and part of community service hours have to be in how they give back and contribute. And on the one hand we have an alternative spring break. Speaker 4:So for example, the number of students went to Ferguson to volunteer to work with habitat for humanity. Another group in the alternative spring break went to Utah. And uh, when, uh, with the National Forest Service [00:17:00] to plan tree and work on the environment. So they're engaged in ways where they could be making the difference as they are developing their or sharpen their intellectual skills. So in essence, they are proactively engaged in order to make a difference and build the bridges that are needed for an imagining of a different America that is inclusive, that is embracing, that also looks for the best interest [00:17:30] of those who have left behind and have fallen through the cracks. And I think that's what we want our students to undertake. Speaker 1:And I saw that recently, last March Zaytuna received the first accredited Muslim college in the u s so what does that mean for the college? Speaker 4:The institution of higher learning have an accreditation. And uh, from the first day we started this project, we wanted the institution to be accredited, in essence, to be admitted and invited to [00:18:00] the diverse academic table of higher education and for a Muslim college to receive accreditation and to sit at the table and offer our own ideas in conversation and in collaboration with other institutions of higher learning. And that process is a, we took it as a challenge for us. And also another opportunity because part of accreditation, you do a self study, you look at your curriculum, you look at your institutions, you look at your financial capacity reporting [00:18:30] and there is about 37 different criteria that you have to fulfill. And we took it seriously that this is an opportunity for us to assess where are we at. And uh, we were engaged with the last, there was an association forcing the schools and colleges, same institution that accredits UC Berkeley. Speaker 4:So we were the fastest institution to begin the accreditation process and achieve accreditation, uh, by the team, the visiting team. In one visit we were able to get accreditation, uh, even UC Berkeley [00:19:00] had to go many times over and some other colleges we were able to achieve it. And, uh, both our curriculum, our, uh, institutional capacity, our finances are very sound. One question that the accreditation committee asked us time and time again because many institution want to get accreditation so they would be able to apply for federal financial aid for students. Now we have made a commitment institutionally that no students will graduate with debt. So we are committed [00:19:30] to students graduating debt free. And as founders we go out and actually appeal to the Muslim community who had part of their financial wellbeing is to give a charitable contribution the terms the cat. So we have been able to develop as a cat fund that provides needy students and any students that have a challenge financially to provide them the resources. Speaker 4:So we actually, when they asked us, are you looking to get federal financial aid? I said, that's really, we [00:20:00] are, we don't want to apply for a federal financial aid. We want our students to graduate that free. We don't believe that you have to be in debt from the cradle to the grave. And I think that is something that we have to offer both institutionally, but also give it as an example of how education can be an avenue for individuals and society to liberate itself from the bondage of financial burden. And I think increasingly our education has become a financial burden where an average [00:20:30] undergrad graduate with $97,000 in debt. And if you go to a master's or phd, it could go into the hundreds of thousand and uh, God forbid you go to the medical school or if you want to train as a lawyer, you actually comes up with maybe 300 to $400,000 in debt if you go to laptop school, which essentially incentivize those individuals who will come out of these institutions to immediately try to stick it to anyone financially. And as such, you lose the bonds of the society [00:21:00] at the foundational level. So that's something that we are committed to it. And I think the accreditation team was taken back because if not every private institution depends heavily on federal financial aid and therefore what you have is a private institution that is uh, loading the students with debt as a way to run the institution. I think ethically and morally that is a wrong approach to higher education in general. Speaker 1:And right now as a tuna, the only Muslim college in the u s or has it sort of inspired [00:21:30] at least ideas for other ones, Speaker 4:it's what we were the only accredited institutions. There is a number of projects that we're hoping that they are on their road to accreditation. There's the American Slavic College in Chicago. They had been longer in place but they went dormant and they'd been back in attempting to get their accreditation process. They have filed, we already sent a letter of support to their accreditation. There is a couple of other institution in the early formative stage. Our expectation as the community increases and the numbers, once [00:22:00] again depending on which a study you look at from two and a half to 3 million to about six or 7 million, you take your number as a in terms of what statistical model you use as the community increases. The needs for such institution will rise and I think we will see in the next few years a number of institution joining Zaytuna and that will be very positive for us as well as the institutions that are coming to provide the services for the community. Speaker 1:Creating perhaps [00:22:30] more of a network there. Speaker 4:Absolutely. We're still, we are right now in discussing as a consortium among Muslim institutions that are either applying or attempting to get into an accreditation and I compare it to, once again, I think we're inspired by the Catholic tradition at a time where the Catholics were in this country that they began to invest in higher education. There were less than one and a half percent of the population. They were facing tremendous racism. If you notice some of the literature around building Catholic churches and Catholic [00:23:00] institutions, if you just take the same texts that were written on Catholics and remove the Catholic Church and the Pope and you just insert Islam and Muslim, you don't have to change much of the literature and at the time they were one and a half percent and they did a, I would say a deliberate strategic initiative in investing in higher education as a way to address their needs and now you look around the country. The Catholic institutions are the premier institutions in the country as well as if you look at their a k through 12 [00:23:30] schools as some of the best schools in this country are run by the Catholics. So in this sense a religious communities, I'm making a path and constructing a way for them both to address their own particular needs, but also contributing to shaping society in general is the longstanding tradition within the American society, but also across across the world. Speaker 1:So do you also sort of take that as inspiration for future plans for [inaudible]? What's next for the college? Speaker 4:Once again, the challenge of keeping the college running is the [00:24:00] biggest challenge right now. Uh, we're a 24, seven fundraising, uh, both to run for operation but also to provide all the needs of the students. There's, you know, we work on a five year plan, uh, acquisition of some housing for students. Uh, also possibly housing for faculty as the need to increase our faculty. One of the biggest challenge and once again in the bay area, it's the cost of housing that is making it prohibitive for us to be able to [00:24:30] attract the faculty talent with the cost bases that we have. So that will be another part of our project. And then looking down the line is to begin the project for uh, having the Master Phd Program and we're already in initial conversation with GTU to join as a member school within the GTU. So that's already in the initial stage of conversation. We will be joining having an master of divinity in Islamic Studies and possibly a phd track a few years after that, [00:25:00] joining them in all of the collaborative projects that they have joining the library. So all those are in the drawing boards for the next five years in terms of where are the steps that are needed. Speaker 1:And right now you offer a Ba, an Islamic law theology with an optional honors program. Speaker 4:It's a Ba in liberal arts with a focus on Islamic law and theology. And there is an honor program where students have to take a particular set of additional courses. We also have actually a, an endowment to, [00:25:30] uh, provide in particular women who want to take a stem track, uh, who want to go to medicine and injury. And we actually have an endowment where they could actually take courses here at Berkeley or city college to augment the Ba degree that we're offering. So they, if they want to apply to an engineering or a medical or MCB and so on, they're are able to do that. So that's already on the books and we're able to offer that for students who are coming in. Speaker 1:So in addition to [00:26:00] the Graduate Theological Union GTU, what are other sort of organizations that you're partnering with the sort of strength in the college? Speaker 4:What do we want? Definitely to have a strong relations with UC Berkeley. So that's something that we look forward to. A GTU, a San Francisco State University, Santa Clara University. Uh, we're working also with a ucs f for the chaplaincy program. So some of our students want to be chaplains in the hospitals. So they have a certification program and we're making the link where students can actually, [00:26:30] uh, they need to do about 80 hours of, uh, supervised chaplaincy training in the hospital. So that is open for them. Uh, in that way we have a relationship with Hartford seminary. So students want to finish from here, can go to Harvard seminary. We have a number of Miranda of understanding with the universities in Turkey. Uh, we had a visit from the, uh, uh, wife of the prime minister of Malaysia who are also likewise looking at cooperation in terms of higher education and [00:27:00] where can we engage in helping, uh, some of their projects. Speaker 4:So once again, these are opportunities that will, uh, continue to expand and we're looking forward to continue to open doors of possibilities for our students and our institution. America has, it's, it's definitely open many possibilities and opportunities for people. So Islam and education go hand in hand. The first word in, uh, in the Koranic revelation was read and therefore there is no such [00:27:30] thing, at least from our perspective, you cannot have an Islam without having it being founded upon education. And therefore we celebrate the history in the past of a Islamic contribution, whether it's in initiating and building libraries. Uh, the notion of a public library is actually originates from the Islamic culture and Islamic civilization because it was such a commitment to public access and universal access to education. So I think being in here, being in the United States [00:28:00] and the impact and the importance of education in the modern age that we can see being in this country, being a Muslim without actually taking to uplift education, but also be a corrective because increasingly education has become corporatized where your knowledge is added to what kind of cubicle you can get. And I think that has, for me, that's a very problematic construct. Not that we don't peep, we don't need individuals to function and create [00:28:30] and work creatively in the economy. But that is not the purpose of education. That's what you do is not that what you know. And I think for us Zaytuna College, if it can help move in a corrective way, the emphasis that we have in education, then I think our impact and contribution will be monumental. Speaker 1:So how can anyone get in touch with Zaytuna or possibly apply? Speaker 4:Well, we're uh, available online so you could access our website, www dot [inaudible] dot edu and [00:29:00] we're also on Twitter, on Facebook. And you could also reach me myself, a hot and on.com on my own website as well as Twitter. And hopefully if, if you would like to be in a place that celebrates education and both knowledge in a triumphant position, uh, Daytona might be the place for you and we will come you to come and visit us for no other reason. That's [inaudible] Speaker 1:and that's a tuna college@zaytuna.edu. Speaker 3:Thank you so much, Dr Bozzi on for being on the show. Thank you [00:29:30] for having, you've been listening to method to the madness to biweekly public affairs show on Speaker 2:k a l x Berkeley Celebrating Bay area innovators. Tune in again in two weeks at the same time. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

This year it made major news, but every summer wildfires torch thousands of acres of land. The National Forest Service rushes to the rescue; to save lives, homes, and communities. But is the agency's approach to fire doing more harm than good?  On this edition, producer George Lavender takes a closer look at the “War on Fire”, from the forests of California to the halls of Congress. Featuring:  *Lorena Gorbett*, Mountain Maidu tribal member; *Debbie Miley*, National Wildfire Suppression Association Executive Director; *Chuck Striplen*, environmental scientist; *Tom Tidwell*, National Forest Service Chief; *Carmen Moon*, The Natives crew boss, *Darryl Stockdale*, aviation contractor; *Timothy Ingalsbee*, Firefighters United for Safety, Ethics and Ecology (FUSEE) co-founder; *Brent Johnson*, National Parks botanist; *Valentine Lopez*, *Amah* Mutsun *Tribal* Band Chair, *Howard Hunter*, Chips fire information officer; *Scott Stephens*, UC Berkeley associate professor of fire science. For More Information:    Firefighters United for Safety, Ethics and Ecology http://www.fusee.org National Wildfire Suppression Association http://www.nwsa.us   US Forest Service http://www.fs.fed.us Stephen's Lab: Research and Education in Wildland Fire Science http://cnr.berkeley.edu/stephens-lab/index.htm   Konkow Valley Band of Maidu http://www.maidu.com/ The Ohlone Nation http://amahmutsun.org/ KQNY radio http://www.kqny919.org/ Articles:   One Earth: A Survival Guide for the Planet by Richard Manning http://www.onearth.org/author/richard-manning Forest Service Orders “Aggressive Initial Attack” on Wildfires—Despite Consequences http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2012/08/major-policy-reversal-us-forest-service-fighting-every-fire-year Grass is burned to study Indian culture http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Grass-is-burned-to-study-Indian-culture-2396204.php Getting Burned: A Taxpayer's Guide to Wildfire Suppression Costs http://www.idahoforests.org/img/pdf/FUSEE.pdf* The post Making Contact – The Burning Issue: America's War on Fire appeared first on KPFA.

Every summer, wildfires torch thousands of acres of land. The National Forest Service rushes to the rescue; to save lives, homes, and communities. But is the agency’s approach to fire doing more harm than good? Producer George Lavender takes a closer look at the “War on Fire.”

Every summer, wildfires torch thousands of acres of land. The National Forest Service rushes to the rescue; to save lives, homes, and communities. But is the agency’s approach to fire doing more harm than good? Producer George Lavender takes a closer look at the “War on Fire.”