Bootstrapped

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25+ Years of Software Bootstrapping Experience

Ian Landsman and Andrey Butov


    • Mar 1, 2024 LATEST EPISODE
    • infrequent NEW EPISODES
    • 41m AVG DURATION
    • 373 EPISODES

    5 from 29 ratings Listeners of Bootstrapped that love the show mention: bootstrapping, agile, saas, mobile, software, apps, programming, rant, products, success, entertainment, business, guys, entertaining, interesting, show, good, great, listen, ian and andrey.


    Ivy Insights

    The Bootstrapped podcast is an invaluable resource for anyone interested in entrepreneurship and the journey of building a business from the ground up. Hosted by Steve, the show features insightful and inspiring conversations with experienced guests who share their wisdom and experiences in the startup industry. The host does an excellent job of leading meaningful discussions that provide listeners with valuable insights and practical advice.

    One of the best aspects of The Bootstrapped podcast is the quality and variety of guests that are featured on the show. They bring a wealth of knowledge and firsthand experience in starting and scaling businesses, making each episode highly informative and engaging. The conversations are always entertaining, providing a mix of entertainment and valuable information for aspiring entrepreneurs.

    Another great aspect of the podcast is the production quality. The episodes are well-produced, ensuring clear audio and a seamless listening experience. This attention to detail enhances the overall enjoyment of the show.

    On the downside, it can sometimes be challenging to keep up with all the information provided in each episode. As there is so much valuable content shared by both the host and guests, it can be overwhelming at times to process all the information presented. However, this is more a testament to the depth and quality of discussions rather than a negative aspect.

    In conclusion, The Bootstrapped podcast is an outstanding resource for aspiring entrepreneurs looking for inspiration, guidance, and practical advice in building their own businesses. With its insightful conversations, entertaining format, and high-quality production, it consistently delivers valuable content that will leave listeners informed and inspired. Whether you're just starting out or already on your entrepreneurial journey, The Bootstrapped podcast is definitely worth checking out.



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    Latest episodes from Bootstrapped

    #239: Our Business Heroes with The Gross Profit Podcast

    Play Episode Listen Later Mar 1, 2024 38:51


    I was recently a guest on The Gross Profit podcast, hosted by James Kennedy. In that interview, James and I talked about our business heros, and well, it seemed to me that the conversation was a perfect fit for this podcast too.So, with James's permission, I'm sharing with you here the entire episode of The Gross Profit podcast in which I was interviewed.The Gross Profit podcastFeature Upvote, my B2B SaaSMy B2B SaaS coaching services 

    #238: B2B SaaS design with Nathan Powell

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 23, 2023 33:38


    I chat with Nathan Powell, freelance product designer whose work these days is mainly with B2B SaaS. We chat about how developer founders can go about improving their app's UX and general design.Mentioned in this episode:Nathan's website: https://nathanjpowell.com/Descript: https://www.descript.com/ 

    #237: Michael Koper, founder of Nusii

    Play Episode Listen Later Mar 12, 2023 25:40


    I chat with Michael Koper, founder of Nusii. We talk about what it's like when your product spends several years at a revenue plateau.Mentioned in this episode:Michael's company, NusiiMichael on Twitter.

    #236: Steve McLeod, founder of Feature Upvote

    Play Episode Listen Later Dec 2, 2022 33:42


    I'm the guest on my own podcast! A year ago, Ben Pages joined my company, Feature Upvote, to be our marketing manager. Ben had questions about the early days of Feature Upvote, and how this product came to be. He also wanted to know the origin of my low-stress approach to running a business. We thought, why keep this conversation to ourselves? Why not record it as a podcast interview, and share it with you? And that is exactly what we did for this episode.Mentioned in this episode:Feature UpvoteA blog post we mentioned: What I learnt in 2018 while running Feature Upvote.The Bob Dylan quote I mis-remembered in this episode is:A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and goes to bed at night and in between does what he wants to do. 

    #235: Maeva Cifuentes, founder of Flying Cat Marketing

    Play Episode Listen Later Nov 18, 2022 32:16


    I chat with Maeva Cifuentes, founder and CEO of Flying Cat Marketing, an SEO and content marketing agency. We discuss Maeva's journey from freelance translator to CEO of a successful marketing agency. Maeva also shares with us some practical SEO tips.Mentioned in this episode:Maeva's company, Flying Cat MarketingMaeva on LinkedInProduct-led SEO by Eli Schwartz 

    #234: Ed's marketing catchup

    Play Episode Listen Later Oct 28, 2022 32:34


    My frequent guest co-host Ed Freyfogle tells us about his recent marketing endeavours, including one that was inspired by April Dunford's "toilet talk". Toilet talk, you ask? All will be revealing during this episode.Mentioned in this episode:Steve's company, Feature UpvoteEd's company, OpenCageGeomob websiteApril Dunford's "Toilet talk"Ed's newly published Geocoding Buyer's Guide  

    #233: Running a lifestyle business and proud of it

    Play Episode Listen Later Oct 14, 2022 29:08


    We have two guests interviewing each other! I invited two friends of the podcast, Andy Brice, and Robin Warren, to chat with each other about what it's like running a lifestyle business in 2022 compared to, say, 10 years ago. Although both Andy and Robin run what they call lifestyle businesses, they've taken different approaches, based on what they want to get out of their business.Mentioned in this episode:Robin's company: bluecatreports.comAndy's products: Easy Data Transform, PerfectTablePlan, Hyper PlanAndy on Twitter: @successfulswAndy's blog: Successful SoftwareRobin on Twitter: @robinwarren  

    #232: Running a WordPress agency, with Marc Jenkins of 16by9

    Play Episode Listen Later Sep 30, 2022 28:30


    I chat with Marc Jenkins, founder of 16by9, a small web studio that focuses on building WordPress sites. Marc and I talk about what its like to start and build up this type of company, and how, with some careful thinking, you can avoid letting your business become something you never wanted it to be.Mentioned in this episode:Marc's web studio, 16by9Marc's Unoffice HoursSteve's company, Feature UpvoteThe Bootstrapped website, designed and created by 16by9 

    #231: Bad support loses customers, and payment failures

    Play Episode Listen Later Sep 16, 2022 34:17


    I catch up with my frequent co-host, Ed Freyfogle, after a long summer break. Amongst other topics, we discuss how bad customer support will lose you customers. We also talk about yet more payment problems - a common theme on this podcast, and for SaaS businesses in general.Mentioned in this episode:Steve's company, Feature UpvoteEd's company, OpenCage 

    #230: Introducing Pushing to Production

    Play Episode Listen Later Aug 19, 2022 33:18


    Something a bit different in this episode: we're playing an episode of the new Pushing to Production podcast, where Ed Freyfogle was the guest. It's a conversation about the technical stack Ed's product runs on. Lots of insightful discussion of the tech decisions you need to make in an API-based business.Mentioned in this episode:Pushing to Production podcastEd's company, OpenCageBootstrapped #228, where I explain why this show will end with episode #250.  

    production api ed freyfogle
    #229: Saying no to a generous acquisition offer, with Simon Bennett of SnapShooter

    Play Episode Listen Later Aug 5, 2022 31:27


    Simon Bennett, founder of SnapShooter, returns to the show. We chat about a generous acquisition offer Simon recently received for his company - and why he ultimately decided to not to be acquired. We also chat about Simon's new podcast, Ship SaaS Faster.Mentioned in this episode:Simon's company, SnapShooterSimon's new podcast for SaaS founders, Ship SaaS FasterSnapShooter's podcast, Pushing to ProductionVersolyMy company, Feature UpvoteSimon on Twitter 

    #228: How to get backlinks (without feeling dirty)

    Play Episode Listen Later Jul 15, 2022 23:02


    An effective content strategy for your product requires getting backlinks. In this episode, I share 9 strategies I use for getting backlinks for my product's website - without doing things that make me feel dirty.Mentioned in this episode:My company, Feature UpvoteTooltester's email deliverability reportRand Fishkin's company, SparkToroPosts I got on the blogs of Postmark, Cloudinary, and ChartMogulMy guest post on Andy Brice's Successful Software blogMy guest post on HelpSpot's blogOut of Beta podcastJavalin Java web frameworkSteve on Twitter

    backlinks postmark cloudinary helpspot
    #227: Joining TinySeed with Nick Swan of SEOTesting.com

    Play Episode Listen Later Jul 1, 2022 35:41


    I chat with Nick Swan from SEOTesting.com. We discuss how Nick took on a co-founder for his already-established business, why Nick decided to no longer be a 1-person show, and most importantly how Nick sold a small part of his company in order to join TinySeed, a startup accelerator designed for founders who would traditionally bootstrap.Mentioned in this episode:Nick's company, SEOTesting.comNick's previous appearance on Bootstrapped #177Nick's investor, TinySeedNick on TwitterSteve's company, Feature Upvote 

    #226: Sponsoring events, podcasts, and newsletters with Peldi @ Balsamiq

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 17, 2022 33:11


    We are joined by a good friend of the podcast, Peldi Guilizzoni,  to discuss how to go about sponsoring events, newsletters, and podcasts to promote your product. In particular we talk about creative approaches that make your sponsorship stand out.Mentioned in this episode:Peldi's company, Balsamiq, a low-fidelity wireframing tool.Steve's company, Feature UpvoteEd's company, OpenCageSteve on TwitterEmail: steve@bootstrapped.fm   

    #225: BoS Europe 2022 retrospective

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 3, 2022 28:20


    I first recorded this episode for the Business of Software podcast. I chat about the experience of attending the recent Business of Software Europe in-person event, together with Joe Leech, who was a speaker at the event.Joe and I shared our thoughts on the event, Joe from the point of view of a speaker at the event, and me as an attendee.Mentioned in this episode:Business of Software websiteBusiness of Software podcastJoe Leech's websiteJoe on Twitter: https://twitter.com/mrjoeSteve's company, Feature UpvoteSteve on Twitter: https://twitter.com/steveofmcleod 

    #224: Recalibrating prices, and Postmark got acquired

    Play Episode Listen Later May 20, 2022 31:24


    Ed and I talk about how currency fluctuations are affecting our pricing. And we give our opinion on the recent acquisition of Postmark, a bootstrapping success story, by ActiveCampaign.A brief note about an error in this episode: At one point I complain about a customer support problem I once had when trying to sign up for ActiveCampaign. After recording, I realised I had confused ActiveCampaign with CampaignMonitor. Let the record show that I've never had any experience with ActiveCampaign, good or bad! Apologies for my confusion.Mentioned in this episode:Postmark's acquisition announcementSteve's company, Feature UpvoteEd's company, OpenCage 

    #223: When customer payments fail

    Play Episode Listen Later May 6, 2022 30:56


    We talk about why we are switching the podcast from weekly to fortnightly for a while. We also discuss headaches when customer payments fail and what we can do to address the problem.Mentioned in this episode:The Photographer's EphemerisBusiness of Software conferenceEd's company, OpenCage.Steve's company, Feature Upvote.

    #222: Pierre de Wulf, co-founder of ScrapingBee

    Play Episode Listen Later Apr 22, 2022 35:28


    Ed chats with Pierre de Wulf, co-founder of ScrapingBee. Pierre tells us about the time his company almost got acquired - and how the deal fell apart at the final stage.Links:Pierre's company, Scraping Bee.Pierre on Twitter  

    #221: Brian Sierakowski of Baremetrics

    Play Episode Listen Later Apr 15, 2022 31:45


    My co-host Ed Freyfogle chats with Brian Sierakowski, general manager of Baremetrics. Brian stepped in to manage Baremetrics after it was acquired a year or so ago from the founder.Ed and Brian discuss the challenges of taking over a complicated business,  Brian's trajectory from SaaS founder himself to running someone else's business, and how changing prices inadvertently gave him the chance to get valuable customer feedback.

    saas baremetrics ed freyfogle
    #220: Adventures in Abandonware and WordPress

    Play Episode Listen Later Apr 8, 2022 31:20


    Ed and Steve talk about a dilemma Steve is facing. An open source component heavily used by Feature Upvote has become abandoned by the maintainer, and Steve has to make a hard decision about how to deal with this.We also talk about why and how Steve recently moved Feature Upvote's website from Jekyll to Wordpress. Yes, really, Wordpress. 

    #219: Leaving bootstrapper life to be an employee again, with John Ndege

    Play Episode Listen Later Apr 1, 2022 29:02


    Ed chats with John Ndege, a former bootstrapper, about how it feels no longer being one's own boss. John launched and grew a product, and he ultimately sold it. Afterwards, he went back to being an employee, working for a large corporation. Ed and John discuss the advantages and frustrations you might experience when you choose the path of going back to work for someone else.Links:John's website: https://www.johnndege.com/John on Twitter: https://twitter.com/johnndege 

    #218: London, in-person events, crowded pubs

    Play Episode Listen Later Mar 25, 2022 26:16


    Ed and I chat about Ed's recent trip to London, my upcoming trip to London, the return of in-person events, and getting exposed to ideas and concepts outside of our normal channels.We mentioned Geomob and Business of Software.In or near London? And interested in joining me for a Bootstrapped mini-meetup in central London on the evening of April 6th or 7th? Let me know at steve@bootstrapped.fm 

    #217: Brian Casel of ZipMessage

    Play Episode Listen Later Mar 18, 2022 30:14


    I talk with Brian Casel, founder of ZipMessage, an asynchronous video messaging tool.Brian has created several successful products in the past, and sometimes ran them in parallel. But he recently sold his entire portfolio of products to focus on ZipMessage. Brian explains why he made this decision.  He also talks about why sometimes you need to shut something down, even if it does seem to be kind of, sort of working.And we talk about the feeling when you realise that a new product is really getting traction.Links:zipmessage.comBrian's podcast, Bootstrapped WebBrian on Twitter  

    brian casel combrian zipmessage
    #216: Trademarking your bootstrapped business

    Play Episode Listen Later Mar 11, 2022 26:47


    Ed tells me why and how he obtained a trademark for his business. We discuss when it is worthwhile to do this. We then talk about the trouble with having competitors clone your product or website content.Ed mentioned how we got the EU to refund most of the costs of obtaining a trademark. Learn about the EU's "Ideas Powered for business SME Fund" here. 

    #215: The domain name change that didn't go as planned, with Robert Brandl of ToolTester.com

    Play Episode Listen Later Mar 4, 2022 32:48


    I chat with Robert Brandl, founder of ToolTester.com. We talk about Robert's recent experience changing the domain name of his website. It was an expensive experience, and one that, for a while, did not go to plan.

    #214: I hired a marketer

    Play Episode Listen Later Feb 25, 2022 30:54


    Ed and I chat about my recent experience hiring a marketing manager for Feature Upvote. Amongst other topics, we discuss how I went about finding the right person.   

    #213: Charles Perry, founder of RelaNet

    Play Episode Listen Later Feb 18, 2022 28:05


    Ed  interviews Charles Perry, founder of RelaNet. Charles was the co-host of Release Notes, a long-running podcast that Charles and his co-host recently ended.It's a great conversation, addressing how, over the years, we change, our industries change, and how sometimes things do come to an end.Charles on TwitterThe Release Notes podcast's back catalog of 450 episodes 

    #212: When, if ever, should we refuse a customer?

    Play Episode Listen Later Feb 11, 2022 24:29


    We talk about Ed's launch of his new product line.That leads into a meandering conversation about ethics and personal beliefs and values. In particular, when a customer signs up for our product and then we discover that customer is in a business that clashes with our own beliefs and values, what should we do and what can we do?When is it right, ethically or legally, to refuse a customer? 

    #211: Strengthening company culture in a remote team with Peldi of Balsamiq

    Play Episode Listen Later Feb 4, 2022 30:49


    Frequent guest Peldi, founder of Balsamiq, makes another welcome appearance.We talk about some ways to strengthen company culture in a fully-remote team, we discuss advice that Peldi often gives to first-time entrepreneurs, and Peldi tells me why he might finally start with traditional product marketing - 14 years after he launched his product.Find out more about Balsamiq's Office Hours.  

    #210: 50 tips for running a stress-free SaaS part 2

    Play Episode Listen Later Jan 28, 2022 26:21


    Part 2 of Ed Freyfogle's 50 tips for running a stress-free SaaS.There was a lot of good content in this recording and we recorded for much longer than usual. So we have split this recording over two episodes. Part 1 is here.

    #209: 50 tips for running a stress-free SaaS part 1

    Play Episode Listen Later Jan 21, 2022 28:18


    Ed Freyfogle shares with us his 50 tips for running a stress-free SaaS. This is based on Ed's talk he prepared for MicroConf late last year, but was unable to deliver due to misfortune.There was a lot of good content in this recording and we recorded for much longer than usual. So we have split this recording over two episodes.

    #208: The dismal deeds of a desperate competitor

    Play Episode Listen Later Jan 14, 2022 17:25


    This week I go solo and rant about the dismal deeds of a desperate competitor. I also talk about the freedom that bootstrapping gives us to change our approach, our style, our audience while staying true to the nature of what we do. 

    #207: Our goals for 2022

    Play Episode Listen Later Dec 24, 2021 27:40


    Ed and I discuss the goals we'd like to achieve in 2022.While we were recording this episode, we had some problems with our recording software. Now I was able to rescue the recording, but you will hear a few audio glitches.In this episode, I mentioned that I'm hiring a part-time digital marketing expert for Feature Upvote. If you know someone who suits the position, please let them know.

    #206: Looking back at our goals for 2021

    Play Episode Listen Later Dec 17, 2021 29:14


    Back in episode 163, Ed and I set our goals for 2021. In this episode we look back at those goals and we ask ourselves, how well did we do in achieving them?Steve mentioned the Catalan Christmas tradition of Caga Tió. Here's what Wikipedia has to say about Caga Tió.

    #205: A rapid Saber Feedback update

    Play Episode Listen Later Dec 10, 2021 27:56


    I give Ed an update on what I've achieved on Saber Feedback in recent months.A new app design, ripping out the SPA architecture, replacing our payment processor with Paddle, and hiring a marketing assistant. It's been busy!If you have a friend or colleague or acquaintance who you think would enjoy this episode, please let them know about it! 

    #204: Ed can speak again

    Play Episode Listen Later Dec 3, 2021 22:09


    Ed tells us about his accident he had, and the impact it had on his life and business. He also talks about how it got him reflecting about his business. 

    #203: A recap of the interview mini-season

    Play Episode Listen Later Nov 26, 2021 13:19


    I conclude the mini season of interviews with a brief summary of the five interviews I conducted. A few weeks ago, my cohost had a cycling that student that broke his jaw. As a result he had to take a break from the podcast while he was recovering. In the meantime, I invited a few people to come onto the podcast and talk about their businesses, their work and themselves.The episodes:#198: Simon Bennett of SnapShooter#199: Jane Portman of UI Breakfast#200: Positioning for bootstrappers with April Dunford#201: Peter Cooper of Cooperpress#202: Bridget Harris, co-founder of YouCanBook.Me

    positioning april dunford peter cooper simon bennett jane portman bridget harris ui breakfast snapshooter
    #202: Bridget Harris, co-founder of YouCanBookMe

    Play Episode Listen Later Nov 19, 2021 33:23


    Bridget is co-founder and CEO of YouCanBook.me, an online scheduling tool. I chat with Bridget Harris about the 10-year journey of starting and growing her company as a bootstrapped SaaS. Amongst other things we discuss the financial sacrifices bootstrappers have to make in a rapidly growing business.Links:Bridget's scheduling tool, YouCanBook.me Bridget's email: bridget@youcanbook.meBridget on Twitter  

    ceo co founders saas bridget harris
    #201: Running an email newsletter business, with Peter Cooper of Cooperpress

    Play Episode Listen Later Nov 12, 2021 34:53


    I chat with Peter Cooper, who runs several email newsletters, including JavaScript Weekly, Ruby Weekly, React Status, and Postgres Weekly. These all live under the collective banner of Cooperpress.Links:CooperpressPeter on Twitter 

    #200: Positioning for bootstrappers with April Dunford

    Play Episode Listen Later Nov 5, 2021 34:55


    April Dunford has a well-deserved reputation as the expert in product positioning within the tech industry. April and I discussed how bootstrappers can go about product positioning.Links:April's websiteApril's book, Obviously AwesomeApril on Twitter  

    #199: Creating a successful podcast with Jane Portman of UI Breakfast

    Play Episode Listen Later Oct 22, 2021 33:46


    Jane Portman is the host of UI Breakfast, a podcast covering UI/UX design, products, marketing.  Jane recently crossed the  2 million downloads milestone. Jane and I discussed the journey from the first episodes, with almost no listeners, to where she is today.Jane is also co-founder of Userlist. We discuss how Jane's podcasting experience helps with Userlist.Links:The UI Breakfast podcast How to sponsor Jane's podcastUserlistBetter Done Than Perfect podcast 

    ui ux successful podcast userlist jane portman ui breakfast
    #198: Backing up 170 Petabytes of customer data, with Simon Bennett of SnapShooter

    Play Episode Listen Later Oct 15, 2021 32:15


    Simon runs SnapShooter, a service that performs scheduled server backups. We discuss:why backups is NOT a dull businesshow the pandemic pushed him to make the jump to full-timecharging his first customer just $2/month - and quickly learning to charge much morea "I did a rm -rf on the wrong server" storyLinks: SnapShooterSimon on Twitter

    backing customer data petabytes simon bennett snapshooter
    #197: Life is unpredictable, and a pricing experiment

    Play Episode Listen Later Oct 1, 2021 20:10


    Ed is recovering from an accident, so Steve goes solo in this episode. Ed's accident gets Steve musing on the unpredictability of life, and what we can do to partly prepare ourselves and our businesses for this.Steve then abruptly changes topic and challenges all listeners to make a bold pricing experiment.Email Steve at steve @ barbarysoftware dot comSteve on Twitter: https://twitter.com/steveofmcleod 

    #196: Our Mental Wellbeing as Bootstrappers, with Robin Warren

    Play Episode Listen Later Sep 24, 2021 32:40


    Three-time guest Robin Warren, founder of Corrello, achieves "very infrequent guest co-host" status. We chat about a number of aspects of mental wellbeing for bootstrappers - getting out of the house, taking breaks, dealing with boredom, and making your business less dependent on you.Show links:Robin on TwitterBlue Cat Reports websiteBlue Cat Reports on Trello 

    #195: Back to School

    Play Episode Listen Later Sep 17, 2021 28:06


    Ed and Steve talk about the challenge of continuing to learn how to run our businesses better, and the challenges we encounter in ongoing learning. 

    #194: We talk about our vacations

    Play Episode Listen Later Sep 10, 2021 29:59


    It's good to take a break!In this episode Ed and I get self-indulgent and talk about our vacations. From time to time we make a tenuous link between our vacations and our  bootstrapped businesses. 

    #193: The fine details of the Saber Feedback acquisition

    Play Episode Listen Later Sep 3, 2021 35:16


    If you've ever thought of selling your business, or acquiring one, you'll enjoy this episode. Matt Zeunert, founder of DebugBear, was curious about the details of my acquisition of Saber Feedback. So we switch roles for this episode, and the guest became the interviewer. Matt asks the questions, and I answer! 

    #192: How the pandemic overturned my business, with Mark Littlewood of Business of Software

    Play Episode Listen Later Aug 27, 2021 27:49


    Mark Littlewood runs the Business of Software, a series of annual conferences to help us run our software companies better. Mark very openly shares how COVID-19 has hit his business, and his need to adapt almost overnight.We talk about the upcoming Business of Software online conference, 27 - 29 September 2021, and how Mark's team make online events work.Business of Software websiteUse this code when buying a ticket for BoS Conf: Fall, 2021 for  20% discount: BootstrappedFM  

    #191: On quietly successful SaaS businesses, and saying goodbye to our forum

    Play Episode Listen Later Aug 23, 2021 19:15


    In this solo episode, I talk about successful yet quiet SaaS business all around us. I also tell the full story of why our forum has been closed and put permanently into archive mode.Bootstrapped websiteSteve on TwitterRecommended alternative communities to our now-closed community:Indie Hackers  - if you are just getting started and want to chat with others just getting startedFounder Summit (paid) - if your business is viable and you like to run a calm companyMicroConf Connect - “a space for founders and their teams of independently funded startups to connect with like minded individuals.”MegaMaker (paid) - A community for bootstrappersFind 10 or so people at a similar stage in your businesses and make a private Slack account. 

    #190: Resellers and product-based podcasts, with Peldi of Balsamiq

    Play Episode Listen Later Aug 13, 2021 26:17


    Peldi, founder of Balsamiq, drops by. We discuss two unrelated topics. First, resellers - why they exist and how to accommodate them. Second, the challenges and benefits of having a podcast for your product. 

    balsamiq peldi
    #189: The agony of the enterprise sale process, with Ed Freyfogle

    Play Episode Listen Later Aug 6, 2021 29:56


    Ed and Steve go in deep on some enterprise sales work they've both been doing lately for their bootstrapped, mostly self-service SaaS products.

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