White and Williams Subro Sessions

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White and Williams Subro Sessions provides insights into the world of subrogation. You’ll hear from various lawyers in our subrogation department discussing the latest legal updates, news and trends as well as strategies for litigation, mediation and reco

White and Williams LLP


    • May 27, 2025 LATEST EPISODE
    • monthly NEW EPISODES
    • 18m AVG DURATION
    • 39 EPISODES


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    Latest episodes from White and Williams Subro Sessions

    Getting to Know Subro: Meet Katherine Dempsey, Associate, White and Williams Subrogation Department

    Play Episode Listen Later May 27, 2025 13:54 Transcription Available


    White and Williams has one of the longest-standing Subrogation Practices in the nation. This series of the Subro Sessions podcast, entitled “Getting to Know Subro,” is hosted by Partner, Lian Skaf. In this episode, Lian interviews Associate, Katherine Dempsey, a member of the Subrogation Department, to discuss how she chose the area of Subrogation law to launch her legal career, her focus on family, and how she spends time out of the office sharing cooking tips and recipes on her "Finsta" account.

    The Lease Says What? A Closer Look at the Sutton Doctrine in Michigan

    Play Episode Listen Later May 20, 2025 11:37 Transcription Available


    This episode of the Subro Sessions podcast, “The Lease Says What? A Closer Look at the Sutton Doctrine in Michigan,” is hosted by Katherine Dempsey, Melissa Kenney and Zachariah Sigda, Associates. This episode discusses the topic of the applicability of the Sutton Doctrine in states where this law is viewed on a case-by-case basis for subrogation claims related to property damage matters involving landlords and tenants.

    Speak Now or Forever Sign That Release – Part 2

    Play Episode Listen Later Apr 15, 2025 20:56 Transcription Available


    This episode of the Subro Sessions podcast, the second in the two-part series entitled: “Speak Now or Forever Sign That Release - Part 2,” is hosted by Gus Sara and Lian Skaf, Partners. This episode discusses the topic of subrogation releases including guidance on writing indemnification provisions, what constitutes a valid subrogation claim by a carrier, and how to limit exposure while ensuring fairness and protection for all parties involved.

    Speak Now or Forever Sign That Release – Part 1

    Play Episode Listen Later Mar 4, 2025 21:49


    This episode of the Subro Sessions podcast, the first of a two-part series entitled: “Speak Now or Forever Sign That Release - Part 1,” is hosted by Gus Sara and Lian Skaf, Partners. This episode discusses the topic of subrogation settlement releases including guidance for the parties that draft the releases, obstacles that subrogation professionals typically run into, inclusion of the insured as a signatory and suggestions on specific language to use in the settlement process.

    Getting to Know Subro: Meet the White and Williams' Subrogation Department Chair, Chris Konzel

    Play Episode Listen Later Feb 18, 2025 14:37


    White and Williams has one of the longest-standing Subrogation Practices in the nation. This series of the Subro Sessions podcast, entitled “Getting to Know Subro,” is hosted by Lian Skaf, Partner. In this episode, Lian interviews Chris Konzelmann, Partner and Chair of the Subrogation Department, to discuss his 35 years with the firm while volunteering as a fire captain in Moorestown, New Jersey.

    Builders Risk Losses: Are Additional Insureds Always Subrogation Proof?

    Play Episode Listen Later Dec 17, 2024 13:16 Transcription Available


    This episode of Subro Sessions, entitled “Builders Risk Losses: Are Additional Insureds Always Subrogation Proof?” is hosted by David Huberman, Partner. David covers the topic of builders risk losses and circumstances where the anti-subrogation rule may not bar subrogation against a responsible party who is also an additional insured under a builders risk policy, while emphasizing the importance of identifying whether the jurisdiction the loss occurred in recognizes exceptions to the anti-subrogation rule.

    Part 2: How to Make the Public Sector an Ally and Not a 'Public Enemy'

    Play Episode Listen Later Oct 15, 2024 20:15 Transcription Available


    Partners, Lian Skaf and Matt Ferrie, are back for the second part of their series titled, “Part 2: How to Make the Public Sector an Ally and not a ‘Public Enemy'.” John Lightbody, CFI, CFEI, CFII, Chief Investigator and President of Find The Cause Investigations, LLC, joins Lian and Matt to continue their discussion on subrogation professionals who work with the public sector in large-loss fire scene joint investigations. This episode also explores examples of claims going into litigation and provides case examples where the public and private sector investigators have a difference of opinion in the cause of the fire.

    How to Make the Public Sector an Ally and not a ‘Public Enemy'

    Play Episode Listen Later Sep 17, 2024 18:40 Transcription Available


    Listen to the newest episode of Subro Sessions, hosted by Lian Skaf and Matthew Ferrie, Partners at White and Williams, entitled, “How to Make the Public Sector an Ally and not a ‘Public Enemy'.” John Lightbody, CFI, CFEI, CFII, Chief Investigator and President of Find The Cause Investigations, LLC, joins Lian and Matt to talk about the best practices for subrogation professionals when working with the public sector during fire investigations including what to do on site, decorum, obtaining the proper investigation documentation and working with both federal and state agencies.

    Insured Made Whole Doctrine: Texas and Washington

    Play Episode Listen Later Aug 20, 2024 11:48


    This episode of Subro Sessions, hosted by associates Zachariah Sigda and Katherine Dempsey, entitled, “Insured Made Whole Doctrine: Texas and Washington State,” dives into the topic of the made whole doctrine. Zachariah and Katherine define the made whole doctrine and explain how the doctrine applies in both Texas and Washington state courts, using those states to show how the doctrine can vary state-to-state. Thus, it is important for subrogation professionals to consider the made whole doctrine before pursuing recovery. 

    Water Losses 101: A Discussion of Common Causes of Water Losses and How to Investigate them – Part 2

    Play Episode Listen Later Jul 16, 2024 32:58


    The newest episode of the Subro Sessions podcast, is hosted by Gus Sara, Partner, and Michael DeBona, Counsel, who are joined by guest J. Pablo Ross, PE, of Ross Engineering. The episode, entitled “Water Losses 101: A Discussion of Common Causes of Water Losses and How to Investigate Them – Part 2,” gives insight into the role of the attorney in a joint-evidence investigation, steps that subrogation professionals and experts take to complete the analysis, make appropriate recommendations to the client and the process of evidence lab examinations. 

    Water Losses 101: A Discussion of Common Causes of Water Losses and How to Investigate Them - Part 1

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 18, 2024 29:00


    The newest episode of the Subro Sessions podcast, is hosted by Gus Sara, Partner, and Michael DeBona, Counsel, who are joined by guest J. Pablo Ross, PE, of Ross Engineering. The episode, entitled “Water Losses 101: A Discussion of Common Causes of Water Losses and How to Investigate Them - Part 1,” explores the most common property damage claim our subrogation team encounters. Gus, Michael and Pablo define the causes, types of losses including HVAC failures, pipe freezes, overflows and give an overview of what a typical investigation looks like when developing a subrogation claim. Be sure to mark your calendar for Part 2, being released on July 16.

    Getting Control of an Accident Scene and Ensuring Evidence is Preserved

    Play Episode Listen Later May 21, 2024 11:51


    The newest episode of the Subro Sessions podcast, hosted by associates, Ryan Bennett and Melissa Kenney, is entitled “Getting Control of an Accident Scene and Ensuring Evidence is Preserved.” Ryan and Melissa discuss fire scene preservation and safeguarding evidence on water damage claims and in fire loss cases. They share three examples of scenarios in which acting fast, retaining proper investigators and evidence technicians can ensure that the client is in the best position to evaluate subrogation potential.

    Investigating Residential Electrical Fires Part 2 - Arcing and Arc Mapping

    Play Episode Listen Later Apr 16, 2024 16:02


    Matthew Ferrie, Partner, is back again to host the newest episode of the Subro Sessions podcast. Bert Davis, Principal for Romauldi, Davidson, & Associates and BDA Engineering, joins Matt for the second episode on investigating residential electrical fires entitled, “Investigating Residential Electrical Fires Part II - Arcing and Arc Mapping.” Bert and Matt dive into arc mapping and how it assists in identifying the area of origin and fire spread in subrogation cases involving residential electrical fires.

    Pursuing Claims Against Minors and Their Parents

    Play Episode Listen Later Mar 19, 2024 18:16


    Chris Konzelmann, Partner, hosts the newest episode of the Subro Sessions podcast entitled: “Pursuing Claims Against Minors and Their Parents.” In this episode, Chris revisits a case and discusses the problems that may arise when subrogation efforts are targeted towards children and their parents and whether either can be held responsible for tort claims.

    Stop Suing Yourself: A Brief Discussion on the Anti-Subrogation Rule

    Play Episode Listen Later Feb 20, 2024 18:42


    The newest episode of the Subro Sessions podcast is out now. This episode is entitled, “Stop Suing Yourself: A Brief Discussion on the Anti-Subrogation Rule” and is hosted by Gus Sara, Partner, and Katherine Dempsey, Associate. Gus and Katherine share their expertise on the Anti-Subrogation Rule by discussing its history, purpose and how it applies in various states across the country.

    Investigating Residential Electrical Fires – Part 1

    Play Episode Listen Later Jan 16, 2024 29:13


    Matt Ferrie, Partner, is returning to host the newest episode of Subro Sessions. This episode is the first part of a series entitled “Investigating Residential Electrical Fires.” Joining Matt is Bert Davis, Principal for Romauldi, Davidson & Associates and BDA Engineering. Matt and Bert address common misconceptions and factors to consider when investigating property damage subrogation cases in residential electrical fires.

    Workers' Compensation Subrogation - Tales by the Water Cooler: Part II – We Got a New Claim, Now What?

    Play Episode Listen Later Dec 19, 2023 16:37


    Brett Tishler, Partner, and Michael Abed, Associate, are back to host the newest episode of Subro Sessions. This is the second of a two-part podcast series, entitled “Workers' Compensation Subrogation - Tales by the Water Cooler: Part II– We Got a New Claim, Now What?” Brett and Michael are joined again by a surprise guest, Rob Caplan, Partner, to discuss a new workers' compensation subrogation case. Rob talks about a new loss and gives a critical look into the specifics into the investigation, experts, and other factors to determine if there is potential for recovery.

    Workers' Compensation Subrogation Tales by the Water Cooler: Part I – How to Handle a Case AKA What Are We Getting Ourselves Into?

    Play Episode Listen Later Nov 21, 2023 15:36


    Brett Tishler, Partner, and Michael Abed, Associate, are back to host the newest episode of Subro Sessions. This is the first of a two-part #podcast series, entitled “Workers' Compensation Subrogation Tales by the Water Cooler: Part I – How to Handle a Case—AKA—What Are We Getting Ourselves Into?” Brett and Michael are joined by a special guest, Rob Caplan, Partner, to trade stories and discuss the many moving parts in workers' compensation #subrogation—and the many moving parts to consider when dealing with a new claim in order to obtain a recovery. #WorkersCompensationSubrogation #SubroSessions Mark your calendar for Part 2, entitled: “Tales by the Water Cooler:  We Got a New Claim, Now What?” launching on Tuesday, December 19th.

    Reading the Small Print: A Discussion of Contractual Impediments to Subrogation

    Play Episode Listen Later Oct 17, 2023 26:21


    Gus Sara, Partner, and Joe Kuffler, Counsel, reunite to host another episode of Subro Sessions, entitled, “Reading the Small Print: A Discussion of Contractual Impediments to Subrogation” to discuss common issues with contractual provisions. Subrogation professionals run into various contractual provisions, including subrogation waivers, limitation to liability and damages caps, accelerated statute of limitations, indemnification/hold harmless clauses, notices and pre-suit requirements and venue/forum clauses. Gus and Joe present relevant case scenarios and stress the importance of reading the small print and knowing what terms are enforceable. 

    This Girl is on Fire: A Conversation with Senior Fire Investigator, Rachael Klein

    Play Episode Listen Later Sep 19, 2023 17:35


    The newest episode of the Subro Sessions podcast is out now. This episode is hosted by Katherine Dempsey and Melissa Kenney who are joined by Rachael Klein, Senior Fire Investigator at EFI Global. Rachael discusses what the procedures are for fire investigators when they arrive at a loss site, detailing how she finds the area of origin by identifying fire effects and patterns, preserving the scene and if there is potential for subrogation.  If you want to hear more about relevant subrogation topics, tune in on the third Tuesday of every month for the newest episode of Subro Sessions.  

    Clock's Ticking: Discussion of the Statute of Repose and its Impact on Subrogation

    Play Episode Listen Later Aug 15, 2023 28:22


    The newest episode of the Subro Sessions podcast is out now. Hosted by Gus Sara, Partner, and Joseph Kuffler, Counsel, this episode tackles a part of the subrogation process that's all about timing: the statute of repose. In the latest episode of Subro Sessions, these White and Williams professionals tackle the core principles and issues brought up by the statute of repose. Gus and Joe will define the statute of repose, explain it's intended purpose and how it is applied, and use real-life examples from their experiences dealing with this topic.   

    Know Your Limits: An Intro to Statutes of Limitations

    Play Episode Listen Later Jul 17, 2023 12:37


    The newest episode of the Subro Sessions #podcast is out now. This episode tackles a central part of the #subrogation process: the statute of limitations and is hosted by David Huberman, Partner and Kyle Rice, Associate In the latest episode of Subro Sessions, these White and Williams professionals tackle the core principles and issues brought up by the statute of limitations. They briefly explain what statutes of limitations are and explain the best ways to view and handle statutes in the subrogation process.  If you want to hear more about relevant subrogation topics, tune in on the third Tuesday of every month for the newest episode of Subro Sessions!  

    Subro Trauma Center - Part 2: A Long Way From Home - Pursuing Claims Against Foreign Entities

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 20, 2023 31:01


    The newest episode of the Subro Sessions podcast is out now. If you listened to the first installment of the “Subro Trauma Center - Discussions on Common Issues that Arise in Subrogation Claims and How to Address Them” series, you won't want to miss Part 2: A Long Way From Home - Pursuing Claims Against Foreign Entities, hosted by Gus Sara, Lian Skaf and Matthew Ferrie.  Often, the presence of a foreign entity is seen as a dead end that could potentially result in a closed file. In this episode of Subro Sessions, Gus, Lian and Matt examine these types of files. They explore common factors to consider, the means of pursuit and laws that apply by using examples from their own experiences with foreign entities.  If you want to hear more about relevant subrogation topics, tune in on the third Tuesday of every month for the newest episode of Subro Sessions.  

    Subro Trauma Center: Part 1: Subrogor Problems - Handling Claims Involving an Uncooperative or Difficult Insured

    Play Episode Listen Later May 16, 2023 28:50


    Listen to the newest episode of the Subro Sessions #podcast where we launch a new series: “Subro Trauma Center - Discussions on Common Issues that Arise in Subrogation Claims and How to Address Them,” hosted by Gus Sara, Lian Skaf and Matthew Ferrie.  The series analyzes common symptoms of subrogation claims, diagnoses potential problems and discusses how to treat the symptoms or problems to secure a recovery. Gus, Lian and Matt share their tips and experiences in “Part 1: Subrogor Problems - Handling Claims Involving an Uncooperative or Difficult Insured" to provide an explanation as to why the #insured is integral to the #subrogation process. They also discuss what the potential outcome is when the insured is not cooperative during the investigation. Mark your calendars for “Part 2: A Long Way From Home - Pursuing Claims Against Foreign Entities," available on June 20th!  

    Help Me Help You - How Working With Claimant's Counsel Can Maximize Your Lien Recovery - “Part 3 - The War Story: Successes and Failures”

    Play Episode Listen Later Apr 18, 2023 15:36


    Listen to the newest episode of the Subro Sessions podcast, available now! Join Brett Tishler and Michael Abed for the third installment of their three-part series, “Help Me Help You – How Working With Claimant's Counsel Can Maximize Your Lien Recovery.” Part 3 of the series is entitled:  The War Story: Successes and Failures.  In Part 3, Brett and Mike discuss some war stories to help show how working with claimant's counsel can maximize an insurer's lien recovery. Mark your calendars for May 16th to listen to our next episode.  Hosts Gus Sara, Matthew Ferrie and Lian Skaf begin a series of podcasts called: “Just A Few Snags: Discussions on Common Issues that Arise in Subrogation Claims and How to Address Them.”

    Help Me Help You - How Working With Claimant's Counsel Can Maximize Your Lien Recovery- "Part 2: The Investigation''

    Play Episode Listen Later Mar 21, 2023 14:59


    This is the second part of the three-part series entitled “Help Me Help You - How Working With Claimant's Counsel Can Maximize Your Lien Recovery.” In “Part 2: The Investigation,” Partner Brett Tishler and Associate Michael Abed take a deeper dive into the crucial steps that subrogation professionals execute immediately after a workers' compensation third party claim is filed. Some of the topics covered in this episode include, gathering facts from the insured/employer, talking to witnesses, gaining access to the premises and gathering information about the machine that caused the injury to boost lien recovery. Mark your calendar to listen to Brett and Michael for “Part 3 - The War Story: Successes and Failures” on Tuesday, April 18th!

    Help Me Help You - How Working With Claimant's Counsel Can Maximize Your Lien Recovery; "Part One: We Are the Necessary Evil"

    Play Episode Listen Later Feb 21, 2023 14:49


    In the most recent episode of the Subro Sessions Podcast, Brett Tishler and Michael Abed of the Subrogation Department discuss workers' compensation subrogation, what it is and why helping the injured worker's counsel pursue a third party claim can maximize your lien recovery. This episode is the first of a three-part series and is entitled:  “Part One:  We Are the Necessary Evil”. Mark your calendar to listen to Brett and Michael for Part 2:  “The Investigation” on March 21st!

    In All Fairness: A Discussion of Recent Court Decisions Finding Arbitration Clauses Unenforceable

    Play Episode Listen Later Jan 17, 2023 12:39


    Listen to host Partner Gus Sara as he discusses two recent court decisions that held the arbitration provisions in residential construction contracts were unenforceable.

    Failing Safely: Discussion on Product Design Defect Cases Related To Fail-Safe Components

    Play Episode Listen Later Nov 18, 2022 20:05


    Gus Sara, Partner, and Mike Abed, Associate, focus on their experience with proving a product design defect case under Pennsylvania-state tort law and sharing their experiences related to failsafe product components. 

    Who's on First: How First Party Claims Adjusters Add Value to Subrogation Recovery Efforts, Part 2

    Play Episode Listen Later Aug 18, 2022 13:32


    Matt Ferrie, Gus Sara and Lian Skaf of the Subrogation Department are joined by Ihor Redkva, Field Property Claims Leader at Allstate, in part two of a discussion about the value first-party claims adjusters bring to subrogation efforts.

    Subrogation Lawyers Reflect on Real Life Fire Training

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 6, 2022 16:22


    Partners Matt Ferrie, Gus Sara and Lian Skaf are joined by fellow Subrogation attorneys Ryan Bennett, Melissa Kenney and Jonathan Millis to recount their hands-on training experience at the Bergenfield Fire Training Academy.

    Who's on First: How First-Party Claims Adjusters Add Value to Subrogation Recovery Efforts, Part 1

    Play Episode Listen Later Dec 30, 2021 13:21


    Matt Ferrie, Gus Sara and Lian Skaf of the Subrogation Department are back together to discuss the reasons first-party claims adjusters are valuable to subrogation efforts.

    An Interview with Captain Chris Konzelmann: Public and Private Sector Fire Investigations

    Play Episode Listen Later Nov 22, 2021 19:39


    Melissa Kenney returns to host another episode of Subro Sessions with Chris Konzelmann, Partner in our Subrogation Group and Captain in the Moorestown Fire Department in Burlington County, New Jersey.

    Spoliation: Often Argued, Rarely Understood

    Play Episode Listen Later Sep 23, 2021 17:39


    Partner Matthew Ferrie, Counsel Gus Sara and Counsel Lian Skaf are together again to discuss and debate three different spoliation hypotheticals.

    The Malfunction Theory of Products Liability

    Play Episode Listen Later Aug 11, 2021 14:45


    Gus Sara, Counsel in the Subrogation Department of White and Williams, discusses the malfunction theory of products liability as well as a recent Pennsylvania case that addresses the malfunction theory.

    Mindful Mediation: Navigating the Path to Recovery (Part 2)

    Play Episode Listen Later Jul 16, 2021 23:58


    Partner Matthew Ferrie, Counsel Gus Sara and Counsel Lian Skaf of the Subrogation Department are back with three new mediation hypotheticals in Part 2 of "Mindful Mediation: Navigating the Path to Recovery." Be sure to also listen to Part 1 of this discussion. 

    The Adjuster's Role in the Subrogation Investigation

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 25, 2021 11:45


    In this episode, Melissa Kenney will discuss the adjuster's role in the subrogation investigation from early communication and scene examination to documentation and preservation.

    Mindful Mediation: Navigating the Path to Recovery (Part 1)

    Play Episode Listen Later Jun 4, 2021 21:26


    Welcome to the first episode of White and Williams Subro Sessions, "Mindful Mediation: Navigating the Path to Recovery." Partner Matthew Ferrie, Counsel Gus Sara and Counsel Lian Skaf of the White and Williams Subrogation Department will walk through and debate three mediation hypotheticals.

    Introducing White and Williams Subro Sessions

    Play Episode Listen Later May 21, 2021 0:44


    The Subrogation Group at White and Williams is pleased to introduce our new podcast, Subro Sessions. Listen to our trailer and subscribe to this podcast so you never miss an episode!

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