Podcasts about little red tarot

I'm joined today by Siri Vincent Pluoff to chat about their newest book, Queering the Runes. Queering the Runes by Siri Vincent Pluoff is a love letter to the runes, the gods, and the people who follow the Nordic path. The author presents an alternative approach to the runes, one that creates a gentle container for those who want to follow this heathen path. Pluoff presents the traditional meanings of the runes, then helps the reader to queer the runes in their own way. Included is the lore associated with each rune, exercises, to apply them to modern life, activities to engage with the rune (layouts, castings, and galdr), and how to use the runes for divination. Queering the Runes seeks to blow open perceptions of the runes. Exploring them as active, living symbols available to all, as well as the inherent connection with ancestral magic that comes with rune work.  Siri Vincent Pluoff has been a practicing witch for nearly twenty years and has been reading tarot and runes professionally for six. They are also the brain behind the radical heathenry podcast, The Heathen's Journey, adapted from their column of the same name at Little Red Tarot. Websites: sirivincentplouff.com; lore-books.com Instagrams: @siri.vincent.plouff, @lore.books.mn TikTok: @SiriVPlouff --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/witch-wednesdays/support

This is Five and Nine, a podcast newsletter at the intersection of magic, work and economic justice. Welcome to Season 1, Episode 6, Part 1. We are pleased to share we are now available on Apple Podcasts.Listen to the podcast now, or read the transcript below, or both!ResourcesMusic and WordsAll by myself, composed by Irving Berlin and sung by Aileen Stanley in 1921The gate, the key, the passage, by Little Red TarotGorgon's Tarot, by Dolores FitchieTarot CardsEight of CupsFive of SwordsTwo of PentaclesThe HermitTranscriptAna: This is a special edition of Five and Nine, with Dear Abby-style discussions about work and career with some tarot mixed in. We received some great guest submissions that we're discussing in this episode. These have been recorded in one sitting, but we had so much to say about the two queries that we split up the episode. For the best experience, be sure to listen to both parts. Dear Five and Nine,I work in an international team. People live in different places around the world, but the working style is very Western. In other words, the squeaky wheel gets oiled. We have to constantly adapt to others' work habits. I wonder how we, those of us who have a harder time trying to feel entitled or confident, could communicate our needs effectively, so that does not make us feel uncomfortable.Signed,Corner Girl Oh, Corner Girl. I really feel you. I really feel you. And it's something I've struggled with myself, even as someone who has grown up in the West.  Dorothy: I think as someone who is actually on the opposite end of the spectrum of Ana, let me just put it this way. Yes, I was that child in Catholic school that had three checks behind their name because I talked too much. I think something that other people could do who are —- and we hear this all the time, the three of us in the different environments that we work in, stepping up, stepping back, et cetera. But I think a lot of it too is having the fortitude to be able to meet people where they're at and allowing folks who admittedly have spoken to me about having issues such as Corner Girl, and almost like teaming up and collaborating in this very different way. So saying, well, what ideas do you have that need a little bit more preparatory time in a meeting and talking to those individuals and saying, would you like me to not speak on behalf of you, but to say, why don't we hear from folks who aren't as vocal? I think as someone who does historically talk a lot, I've learned to do that for other people. And it's really humbled me a lot and also taught me to be much more of a deep and active listener. I wonder if corner girl can actually find those folks, who are making it an intentional practice to be active listeners. Xiaowei: I really resonate with Corner Girl. In so many ways, I feel like I also am the person at a meeting who always needs time to think about things. I never feel like I can react to things in real time. I need some time to like, process, to understand, to really analyze and be methodical. One of the ways that — this is very Scorpionic. I was talking with someone yesterday about how we're so against classification ethically in so many realms, but when it comes to the Zodiac, we're always talking about it. As a deep listener and someone who's quiet, there's other ways of wielding power. Even just remembering when I was in middle school, I started this petition at school, but I didn't say it was from me. We ended up getting a hundred signatures or something, and I left it at the principal's door. And there was like this whole thing that like came out of it, but I never like fessed up to being the person who started the petition. And in previous workplaces, one of the issues that we had was workplace equity of all different kinds. But I started a spreadsheet where people could anonymously put their salaries and people were like, did you start this spreadsheet? And I was like, no, I didn't, but eventually it became a vehicle for people to start to have these discussions around gender equity and pay parity at the workplace. So I think there are these ways of also wielding power and trying to get change done that maybe don't necessarily involve speaking up in that way. Everyone has their different ways of approaching things. Ana: And so much seems to depend also on the move up, move back framework. If the folks who do take up more space, if they're willing to move back, if they're willing to cede space, one thing that's been interesting for me to see is, just as a quiet person myself, seeing how things like Slack and emails sometimes (sometimes!) enable different types of conversation. Or in a Zoom meeting or a Google Meet meeting, the more quiet people will actually use the chat function to get their ideas out even while people are talking. So much depends on the actual work environment, but sometimes the kind of text-based communication, just like what you do with the spreadsheet, Xiaowei, becomes a space at least a different type of conversation where people can take up a little bit more space through texts. But of course, power dynamics and cultural dynamics so often come into place. Xiaowei: Yeah. Agreed. You have to have leadership that's actually willing to listen in order for any of this to happen. Yeah. [7:23] A Reading for Corner Girl Ana: Should we do a reading for Corner Girl?  Xiaowei: I can start with the first card. So the spread that we're doing is a spread that Ana has done before that I really appreciate — Gate, Lock and Key. How would you describe the gate, Ana?Ana: I think of it as the invitation. This is the doorway that you're being invited to open. Xiaowei: Okay. So what is the doorway that corner girl is being asked to step through? Oh, interesting. I pulled the eight of cups. In the Rider Waite, which I'm using today, it is a person in a red cape, with their back turned towards eight cups. And they're journeying under an eclipse. So it's a moon that has eclipsed the sun, so intuition that has eclipsed reason.Dorothy: The lock placement in this spread is — I don't want to call it a barrier. And I too, along with Xiaowei really appreciate this spread that Ana has done with me as well, because it forces, or it has forced me to think about the lock as a way of, well — how might we confront a challenge that we're facing? Do you want share anything else about the lock?Ana: No, but I've been trying to find where I learned this. I haven't found it. I've been Googling it. It just feels important, as you all have shared with me, is to share our inspirations. And the closest I could find for the spread was on the Little Red Tarot blog, where Beth Maiden writes about the gate, the key, the passage as a spread. I think I was certainly influenced by that. I'm not quite sure where exactly, the gate, the lock, the key spread, came into my mind. Xiaowei: I will say that I actually have done a ritual before that I read, I can't remember where, that was not tarot. That was the gate lock and the key. And it was about infusing. So I literally had to take an actual key and infuse intention into three objects. And so then afterwards, I would carry the key around to remember what was the symbolic and actual key. So I feel like it's maybe a quite old witchcraft thing, maybe. Dorothy: But you know what else I thought of related to the lock. Why does it have to be just one key? Keys can be copied too, do you know what I'm saying? I'm also just being practical. When you think of when you give a key to someone that you trust, if you're giving them the power, as Xiaowei brought this up earlier, then not only are you entrusting this person and not only do they know and have the resource to unlock the lock with the key that they have. It's almost a way of honoring. I don't think of the lock as something necessarily restrictive, and it can be something that can be untangled, so to speak. And I guess I should move on to the card that just kind of stuck itself out as I was shuffling. And I'm using the Gorgon's Tarot by Dolores Fitchie. It's black and white and only a few cards in the entire deck have hints or touches of red.Corner Girl, we need to talk. Your lock card is Five of Swords. The way that the five of swords appears on the Gorgon's Tarot is a feminine figure wearing a long black dress almost as if in a crucifix position where her arms are outstretched. There are four swords that actually form a diamond around her. So they're surrounding her, but the fifth sword, it goes straight through her heart. And it is against a backdrop of mountains and land. And then there's one mouse and one… it looks a little bit like a leopard or a cheetah that are actually looking on to the feminine figure.  Ana: I'll draw the key, and to your point, Dorothy, actually, sometimes when I'm doing the spread, I'll draw two keys or three keys. Depending on my intuitions, and the key position is exactly it. I think of it as a way to work through the block to get to the invitation. And so I'm using the Rider-Waite-Smith, and I'm pulling two cards.Now, the two cards are that I've drawn are the Two of Pentacles and The Hermit. So the Two of Pentacles is a figure that looks like they're juggling two pentacles or coins in their hand. They're larger pentacles, and there's kind of a figure eight or infinity symbol that's connecting those two coins. In the background are ships, big waves. The figure seems to be dancing. They're standing on one foot and they're looking downward at the Pentacles. The Hermit is a figure that is an old bearded figure, a kind of masculine figure who is wearing a hood and a robe and is standing in what looks like the snow. And the figure is holding up a lamp, and that lamp contains a little star inside. And it's often interpreted that this person is in the night walking through a dark place. And so it seems like the the full spread here — we have Eight of Cups as the gate, the invitation. The Five of Swords as the lock, what we might think of as a blocker or something to work through. And the key, possible way forward, is a Two of Pentacles and The Hermit.  Xiaowei: I guess in the Rider Waite, the progression of the Five of Swords is the first card that's someone in a red cape journeying. And then the second, the lock, the person in red is now wearing a green tunic on top and looking off. I had these two other people in this sort of expression of like, oh, I'm just looking on at others. And then the last two keys, the person in red is now playfully juggling, and behind them is that figure of the hermit who's in this gray cape now. And I love that. It's also like this story really. It's almost like a comic. Dorothy: I think what's interesting about the Five of Swords is this idea of… you never know if you're the “winner”, or the person who's been, or people who have been defeated. You actually don't know till much later on, when you think about different life experiences and things that you might have gone through. And again, I know Corner Girl is not a student, but I think I go back to this because this is stuff we learn when we're young: you need to be bold, you need to just speak. I'm being told I need to do all these things and be all of these things, when these things aren't actually encouraged. And so sometimes when I look at the Five of Swords, I wonder if Corner Girl could look at past experiences where her perceived introversion or desire to be quiet and to be still, and to be like, let me step back and be an observer when those instances have actually served her well, because sometimes we're not asked about those. We don't seek that wisdom from our prior selves to actually inform what might help us in the current position. When I think of the Five of Swords, it's like someone can win a victory, but did they really win in the long run? You know? But again, you don't know that.  Ana: Right now, maybe that's your communication style or it could be the working environment itself. Is this the right working environment for you? Is this the place that is right for you? And of course we face so many constraints. It's not easy to just pick up and leave, but it seems to be a question here. Then are you ready for what might be some discomfort on your side as you practice a different type of communication style and of course, discomfort on the side of others, as well as they try to adapt to maybe a different side of you that they haven't seen?Maybe you're asking the leadership to make more of, if not an accommodation, then a culture shift that includes a spirit of moving back, of active listening, of giving space and sharing space. Either way, that requires a little bit of push and pull. And so to me, part of what I see with this is, there's a Two of Pentacles which will require some juggling of yourself and your own needs, but also on the part of the organization, can there be a balance, can there be a workplace shift? It's unclear. Can that workplace provide that balance for you? And if not, I think of The Hermit as maybe it's time to move on. Something that, to me about The Hermit is that holding a lamp out into darkness, unsure of where he or she is going, is a scary place to be. It's a scary leap, but sometimes our work environments are not the right place for us. Even if the work itself is nice, but if the work environment is not supportive, then it may be time to start making preparations for how you can be economically secure enough, ow you can have all your needs met, whatever it is you need from work for your material health and well being, to then make that leap, in whatever way that looks for you. Dorothy: Even thinking through and listening to Ana and Xiaowei talk about the cards that have been laid out, even though we're in three different places, actually we're everywhere, everything all at the same time, all the time. I feel, Ana, you summed it up really well about the choices that Corner Girl has, because there are choices. She could participate in the changes in a variety of ways that both Xiaowei and Ana have already stated. I just think that was a very fascinating observation of a very circular kind of reading and that's. Xiaowei: I really love what you also just said too, Ana, about culture change. And I think it's so funny because, like, sorry, I've been writing about power all day, so I'm just going to go for it. Corner Girl mentioned Western working culture. It's very contradictory, right? Because on one hand it is the supposed narrative about like, oh, if you're loud, if you're really filling up the room, that's how change gets done. But when you look at it, it's always a lot of closed doors, like one-on-one. The one person making that meeting with a CEO is like, Hey, just so you know, people are unhappy about this thing. And so it is very contradictory. Behind closed doors, things get moved, and then also this narrative of being really loud. And so I think part of changing workplace culture is also sitting with those two opposites and also thinking about how, as you shift culture, your working style may or may not fit with those two different poles. Dorothy: Yes, a hundred thousand percent to what you're talking about. And I also wanted to add, I cannot help, but think of the way that even Corner Girl is thinking about this, because I don't know if this was inadvertent. But I'd like to think of it as a beautiful slip — is the last question in the letter was, I wonder how we who have a harder time trying to feel entitled or confident could communicate our needs? And a part of me is just like, wow, Corner Girl, you're actually trying to figure this out, not just for yourself, but other people. And that's a way of showing a type of solidarity that is oftentimes unseen, because you see maybe other people having to confront this themselves as well. And I'm wondering if you've spoken to those other individuals, and what would it look like if you had that conversation about how to best have, not just your needs met.But — whether you want to call them coworkers, colleagues, comrades — what would it look like if you started to have these conversations with other individuals that have also experienced this in the workplace before you start to make a decision about whether it is the right place for you? Ana: Sometimes it's not the right fit, but there's always the question of what values have you gained from this? What have you learned about the things to ask for in a future workplace? And what to look for? There are all tough questions. Not everyone has as much flexibility with their workplace as others. And that's a question only you can answer. But often talking to other people, hearing their experiences, and learning from each other is a great place to start. [22:20] How to Interpret the ReadingAna: And just a reminder is that in tarot, this is not a prescription. These are not, predictions. These are just insights. Ultimately we have free will, and you all know your context so much more than we do. These are just perspectives that we hope to share, just to challenge thinking, bring perspectives to our audience. But ultimately these decisions are ones that you make.  Dorothy: I think the first thing that comes to mind is understanding that the tarot is a lot like that really quiet best friend that just just drops truths when you least expect it. So the language or the communication is coming through the symbology as well as the naming of the card.I think of someone like my grandfather, my maternal grandfather. When I was growing up, his people would actually ask for his opinion. And he would say just a few words. And I'm not that way. I know I'm a person of so many, oftentimes flowery words. And my students, I say, okay, one last thing. And then my students have actually said, Dorothy, you say that all the time, and it ends up being five last things. Is this really the last thing? But that's what tarot is. It's this friend that doesn't have to say much, but it's also not prescriptive. It's never going to tell you what to do. It allows you to see that you have the answers inside yourself. I almost feel like I'm saying everything and nothing at all, but that's the best way to describe interpretation, like reading generously and also reading from a place that is for the highest good in your life. Not something where you are espousing or imbuing, and people read differently. But if you know you're in a high octane, emotional state, sometimes it's good to maybe have someone that can listen. And tarot can offer that, but I think the danger, and I use that word very intentionally is that espousal of, well, this is what that means, and it has to mean that.And it doesn't. And that's what I mean by reading generously. One of my mentors always reminds me of doing that with text. How do you read this generously? Even if you disagree, even if you're like, oh, the Death card. Nope. What does it mean to read the Death card generously?  Xiaowei: Plus one to everything Dorothy said. In many ways, tarot is like a good therapist where, you that moment when you're talking to your therapist and you just kind of see the slight eyebrow raise? And your therapist is like, slight eyebrow raise, So you're telling me that you want X, but you've been doing Y. And Y seems very… going in the opposite direction of X. How do you feel about that? And I feel like tarot is just that. How do you feel? Maybe you just want to keep on going in the opposite direction.

In this episode we talk to my dear friend and former witch colleague Poplar Rose. Poplar and I met in 2017 when we both ran businesses online. They used to write for a site Little Red Tarot and their business was called witch cabinet. Through witch cabinet, they ran a 12-week course on boundaries called Hawthorn Heart. They share their story of being a social justice activist, a witch, and their eventual major fall out and extreme crisis of faith in social justice. As they say, "social justice broke up with me." This came after experiencing two back to back call outs. The stress of these coupled with moving to a plot of land in the forest, exposed to the elements after their shelter fell through, led them to shut down their business for the last 2 years. They share the before, during, and after of this experience, and reflect on what social justice means for them now.There is mention of active suicidal ideation in this episode. --Follow Poplar on Instagram: @poplarroseArticles by Poplar: Why I Stopped Teaching Yoga – My journey into spiritual, political accountabilityExcommunicate Me From the Cult of Toxic Social JusticeInstagram post reflecting on the call outs--Subscribe to the podcast on Patreon!Follow the podcast on Instagram! @outofthewoodspodDo you have a story you'd like to share on Out of the Woods? Email outofthewoodspod@gmail.com. 

Let's dive deep into the rune Uruz, its different meanings, and how we can gain strength from and persistence. In this episode, I talk about Audhumla, the Norse creation myths, and the meeting of fire and ice. Bonus: If you want to learn runes with me, I've got a class coming up on August 18th, 2020! Intro To Runes will give you a quick overview of the full futhark, the history of the runes, and other important info. You can sign up here: https://thefuturempls.com/collections/events/products/august-18-intro-to-runes-online References: The Poetic Edda (translated by Carolyne Larrington). Oxford University Press. 1996. The Prose Edda. (edited by Anthony Faulkes). Aswynn, Freyja. Northern Mysteries and Magick: Runes and Feminine Powers. Llewellyn Worldwide, 1998. Murphey, Bradley. Othil: Norse Ancestral Traditions. Thrymheim Publishing. 2006. Paxson, Diana. Taking Up The Runes: A Complete Guide to Using Runes in Spells, Rituals, Divination, and Magic. Weiser Books, 2005. Plouff, Abbie. Heathen's Journey Column on Little Red Tarot. First published in 2017. Rhys-Mountfort, Paul. Nordic Runes. Versa Press, 2003. Tauring, Kari. The Runes: A Deeper Journey. Self published, © 2007 --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/heathens-journey/support

Oftentimes, we don't realize how our privilege limits inclusivity in the wellness industry. Even spiritual practices, such as tarot readings, fail to highlight individuals of color along with the breadth of relationships that exist beyond heterosexuality. This week's guest on The Alchemized Life, Samara Kasai, decolonizes the tarot from imagery to language. When we infuse social justice into our daily spiritual practices, we check our privilege, create inclusivity, strengthen our intuition and liberate ourselves from the shackles of our limiting beliefs. To learn more, and for the complete show notes, visit: http://www.thealchemizedlife.com (TheAlchemizedLife.com) Resources: https://samarakasai.podia.com (WEBSITE) | https://www.instagram.com/kasaithrive/ (INSTAGRAM) CHECK OUT the Little Red Tarot https://littleredtarot.com (HERE) Stay Up To Date: ●   Follow https://www.instagram.com/thealchemizedlife (@TheAlchemizedLife) and https://www.instagram.com/avajohanna (@AvaJohanna) on Instagram ●   https://www.avajohanna.com/sign-up (Subscribe to Newsletter) ●   Visit https://www.avajohanna.com/ (AvaJohanna.com) or http://thealchemizedlife.com/ (TheAlchemizedLife.com) ●   http://bit.ly/vipgroup2020 (Apply for CATALYST Summer Group Coaching)   Sponsors: BLUblox: Take 15% off your order by using code ALCHEMIZED http://blublox.com/ALCHEMIZED (BLUblox.com/ALCHEMIZED) BetterHelp: Get 10% off your first month of counseling by visiting http://www.betterhelp.com/alchemized (BetterHelp.com/ALCHEMIZED) The Alchemized Life is a production of http://crate.media/ (Crate Media)

In this episode, I begin our journey through the Elder Futhark with Fehu. This is the first rune we encounter, and traditionally means wealth, property, or cattle. But what does wealth mean to the radical heathen? How can we know where to start with wealth when we have complicated feelings about it? Abbie dives into the many layered meanings behind the Fehu rune, and looks at it from an anticapitalist perspective. We talk about generosity, reciprocal communities, and making sure our needs are met before we go off on our own journeys. Links: northernlightswitch.com patreon.com/northernlightswitch Follow me: Instagram: @northern.lights.witch Twitter: @northlightwitch Sources: The Poetic Edda (translated by Carolyne Larrington). Oxford University Press. 1996. Aswynn, Freyja. Northern Mysteries and Magick: Runes and Feminine Powers. Llewellyn Worldwide, 1998. Murphey, Bradley. Othil: Norse Ancestral Traditions. Thrymheim Publishing. 2006. Paxson, Diana. Taking Up The Runes: A Complete Guide to Using Runes in Spells, Rituals, Divination, and Magic. Weiser Books, 2005. Plouff, Abbie. Heathen's Journey Column on Little Red Tarot. First published in 2017. --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/heathens-journey/support

Cassandra Snow (they/them/she/her) is best-known for penning the Queering the Tarot book and a series of the same name, which was seen on Little Red Tarot. They've also written about tarot, witchcraft and theatre at Take Your Pills, QueerTarot.cards, and Howlround among others. Cassandra's second book, Queering Your Craft: Witchcraft from the Margins, is coming out via Red Wheel/Weiser Publishing on November 1, 2020. Cassandra has been reading tarot for over a decade, and operates out of Minneapolis, MN. Cassandra is normally stationed weekly at The Eye of Horus and twice a month at The Future. They also read regularly at The Haunted Basement's Maker's Fairs and special events. They've taught classes and workshops everywhere from colleges to sex stores, as well as at the more expected metaphysical stores and events.  Cassandra firmly believes that tarot and witchcraft should be accessible tools for anyone who wants to use them and works to make them approachable without making them seem fluffy. Humor, generosity and collaboration weave their way through all of Cassandra's work. The work also comes from a radical, queer, sex-positive, fat-positive, anti-racist, feminist and Pagan point of view. In Cassandra's other life, she runs a queer theatre company called Gadfly Theatre Productions in Minneapolis. Episode Highlights Cassandra shares about the importance of making tarot more approachable to all people. They share about their book “Queering the Tarot” and how it brings the queer perspective into divination. We explore what it was like to grow up queer in a Christian conservative community and how Cassandra found their liberation through witchcraft and tarot.  Cassandra discusses the concept of a fluid god energy and how it manifests in the form it needs for the specific person. They talk about the importance of honesty, compassion, and empathy when it comes to tarot readings. Cassandra shares about the significance of empowerment through tarot. They talk about their new book, “Queering Your Craft: Witchcraft from the Margins.”  Cassandra shares their favorite queer tarot decks: - Next World Tarot - The Numinous Tarot - This Might Hurt Tarot - Modern Witch Tarot - The Fountain Tarot Web links Find more info at Cassandra-Snow.com You can also find them on Instagram, Twitter, Patreon & FaceBook   Grab your FREE Guide - Needs, Boundaries & Self-Care for Queer Folks.  Download it here. Join the Queer Spirit Community Facebook group to continue the conversation and stay up to date on new episodes.   And follow us on Instagram!

Alex Iantaffi interviews Cassandra Snow, author of Queering the Tarot. Cassandra Snow (they/them/she/her) is a professional tarot card reader, teacher, writer, and theatre maker in Minneapolis, MN. Cassandra believes tarot is a powerful tool for insight that leads to healing that leads to liberation and empowerment. Their tarot practice centers around empowerment of queer seekers, overcoming personal trauma, practical step by step business or creative plans and spiritual guidance. As a writer, tarot is also one of Cassandra's focuses, and she penned the long running queer journey through the tarot, Queering the Tarot at Thecolu.mn and Little Red Tarot, now available on Patreon. This series has been turned into a book through RedWheel/Wieser Publishing and was released in May 2019! Cassandra's writing has been featured not only on their own blog and at Little Red Tarot, but at Take Your Pills (a mental health blog), and Howlround. Cassandra also served as Contributing Arts Editor at TheColu.mn until its closing. Cassandra also runs Gadfly Theatre Productions, a queer and feminist theatre company in Minneapolis, MN who makes queer art by and for queer people. They serve as co-artistic director for the company and have for the past ten years. Cassandra has been reading tarot for over about 14 years and has "gone pro" for about 9 years. You can find out more at www.cassandra-snow.com. Their instagram handle is tarotcassandra and they offer daily tarot guidance and advice there and on their community style patreon at patreon.com/cassandrasnowSupport the show (https://www.patreon.com/genderstories)

In this episode, I will revisit the four elemental energies represented in the four suits of the tarot with a specific focus on the gender energy of each suit. I will describe how to differentiate between the two masculine suits and the two feminine suits by exploring the concepts of the human and spiritual realms. I will then examine where each archetypal court figure fits on the spectrum of gender identity and how to see past the limitations these archetypes put on being fully inclusive of all gender identities. To begin exploring decks that use different and more inclusive archetypes, see this article from Little Red Tarot: https://littleredtarot.com/beyond-kings-queens-renaming-tarot-court-cards/ Support RLR: www.patreon.com/rootlockradio www.rootlocktarot.com/learn-tarot Subscribe to the RLT mailing list: www.rootlocktarot.com/contact Music provided by: Shenandoah Davis www.shenandoahdavis.com Jeré www.soundcloud.com/jerejerejere I hope you find the links between tarot and psychotherapy concepts useful. However, Root Lock Radio is not a substitute for therapy with a licensed mental health professional.

Mike and Cassandra discuss her new book, Queering the Tarot, how the book came to be and the column she used to write for Little Red Tarot, the importance of addressing gender and sexuality when learning the tarot, and much more!

Mike and Cassandra discuss her new book, Queering the Tarot, how the book came to be and the column she used to write for Little Red Tarot, the importance of addressing gender and sexuality when learning the tarot, and much more!

Why are the PhDivas interested in tarot cards and the art of divination? PhDivas Liz and Xine separately delved into tarot: this is their first full conversation about their practices of self-care. The classic Western deck has been reimagined by disenfranchised peoples. Xine draws from her research about the importance of QTPOC tarot, especially the Asian American Tarot and Dusk || Onyx Melanated Tarot for the African diaspora. Liz the scientist challenges the dichotomy between tarot, forms of belief, and STEM. They talk skepticism, the Queen of Swords card, the Death card. How do we care for ourselves as scholars, as vulnerable people in this world? Will you try out a new practice of self care you might be skeptical about after this episode? Asian American Tarot by the Asian American Literary Review: https://aalr.binghamton.edu/special-issue-on-asian-american-mental-health/ Dusk II Onyx Melanated Tarot by Courtney Alexander: https://dust2onyx.com/ For an easy introduction check out the free Golden Tarot app. Little Red Tarot is a queer feminist tarot website with lots of tutorials: www.littleredtarot.com Asali Earthworks curates and reviews QTPOC tarot decks: https://www.asaliearthwork.com/tarot-of-the-qtpoc/

Given the state of the world we need to find better ways to relate to each other and grow. This is exactly what Andrew and Siobhan talk abot in this episode. How to find our way towards grpowing and undoing the conditinoing of history. This converstaion is about finding posibilities, opening to others and working to change the world for the better.  The link Siobhan mentioned, an inquiry practice for allies: https://radicaltarot.com/7-questions-earnest-allies/   A link they wish they'd mentioned, where I'm talking about oppression and sliding scales in spiritual business:  https://radicaltarot.com/lets-talk-about-sliding-scales/   Their newsletter (best way to keep in touch): http://bit.ly/radicaltarotsubscribe   Think about how much you've enjoyed the podcast and how many episodes you listened to, and consider if it is time to support the Patreon You can do so here. If you want more of this in your life you can subscribe by RSS , iTunes, Stitcher, or email. Thanks for joining the conversation. Please share the podcast to help us grow and change the world.  Andrew You can book time with Andrew through his site here.    Transcript  ANDREW: Welcome to the Hermit's Lamp podcast. I am hanging out today with Siobhan, who is a card reader who I know through the tarot community, but who I really wanted to sort of have on the podcast and sort of talk about politics and identity, and how we interact with each other, and how we can try and have better, more humane, more open conversations about what's going on with each other and in the world right now.  Because I feel like in a lot of the spiritual communities, there are, you know, some awareness of these things, and then there are places where there's just no awareness, and so I thought that Siobhan would be a great person to have on and talk about some of this stuff and see what comes of it. But for people who don't know who you are, who are you? What are you up to?  SIOBHAN: [laughing] Well. I am, primarily, a tarot reader and writer. I write most often at LittleRedTarot.com, which is an intersectional alternative space, and I also write at my website at RadicalTarot.com. I spend a lot of time writing about the intersections that I live on. And so, that might look like writing about race, writing about other marginalized groups, writing about chronic illness, or mental health issues. And so, I spend a lot of time writing about political topics, although, you would never believe it, I'm not really as political of a person [laughing], not usually, but my writing does tend to be pretty authentic and pretty raw in talking about my experience in marginalized communities. So, that's a lot of what I end up doing. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. And -- so -- Siobhan and I have been talking for a while about being on the podcast, and for a variety of reasons it keeps getting nudged into the future, until today. But one of the things that sort of surfaced recently was sort of a conversation which we were both a part of, around ... Not to give away sort of personal information but, somebody was called out for a behavior, and, you know ... And, and, you know, sort of Siobhan and I were sort of both the voices in that conversation that kind of migrated towards, “Well, there is something to what they're saying, there's something that we could consider, right?”  SIOBHAN: Mmmhmm. Mmmhmm. ANDREW: You know, and so, it kind of reminded me that this was the conversation I wanted to have ... SIOBHAN: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And, you know, I think that there's ... You know, we live in interesting times, right?  SIOBHAN: Right! [laughs] ANDREW: Where, the ways in which people have access to each other, the ways in which people treat each other, especially online but also in lots of other places, you know, it's often really unclear to me whether ... What's helpful and what's not, right?  SIOBHAN: Right.  ANDREW: You know, and so ... Yeah, I'm just wondering ... Because your response was so wonderful, I'm wondering, you know ... SIOBHAN: [laughing] ANDREW: If you could sort of share a little bit of what that idea was, you know?  SIOBHAN: It's so funny. Yeah, you know, the first thing that pops up when you talked about that, was a post I wrote, actually, a very similar time of year, maybe two years ago, and it was in response to Kelly-Ann Maddox's #TarotSoWhite discussion. I don't know if you saw any of that. But the dialogue came up around how many decks there are that have representation, how many diverse decks that there are, and so, it was an interesting time, because it was the first time I had ever heard anyone sort of call out this notion of the tarot space being predominantly white, predominantly occupied by a certain demographic. And I want to say, I had mentioned it briefly in a tarot chat, and then it came up later again and again, but the dialogue was pretty interesting and fruitful at the time. And it was funny, because the piece that I wrote in response, actually was contrary to the original callout. [laughing]  So, whereas the original assertion was, there aren't very many decks with people of color, I wrote, “Well, actually, there could be more, way more ...” At the time, it was two years ago. “But they do exist, and to reference them as if they don't is erasure.” And I remember at the time having a really sweet conversation with Kelly-Ann, where she realized how many different options were available that actually she hadn't seen yet, and it was really amazing to get closer to her and to dialogue in that way, and it went really well.  And so, at the time, I didn't have the concept of a call-in, versus a call-out, and you'll hear those terms more commonly in feminist spaces, people talking about drawing attention to a behavior or activity that they saw that could be problematic, in a way that may be perceived as shameful versus as an invitation to dialogue, to go deeper and to learn something. And so, I didn't even have a concept of that, at the time, I just responded with pure emotion. It was a very emotional summer, I want to say, there were a lot of acts of violence that had just happened, in the news. Perhaps the first of the series that kicked off all the -- I know it's hard to remember a time when it wasn't [laughing] -- all the time. ANDREW: Yeah. SIOBHAN: It was less visible then, so it was the first instance. And so, yeah, this conversation has just gotten bigger and deeper in the spiritual community and also in other communities, and now, people who have never encountered any sort of idea about their own privilege, or about the experiences of marginalized groups, are now encountering these experiences, and not everybody who calls people out necessarily has the space to do so in a way that is kind or compassionate, and not everybody who is called out or in necessarily knows that there is any information to glean from it.  And so, it's so interesting to watch these conversations happen. [laughing] It's a very primordial time for these discussions. It's very new to many people. And it's worth it and it's exciting, but there's also issues when it can be tender.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: Times when it can be tender.  ANDREW: Yeah, I mean, I think it's ... I mean, it's challenging on many levels, right?  SIOBHAN: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And I think that for people in all of the positions to have openness to where other people are coming from ... SIOBHAN: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And openness to being present and sort of curious about the process. SIOBHAN: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: You know? I mean, it's really tough, and certainly, at times, not possible or not even appropriate.  SIOBHAN: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: But, it's one of the things that I dug about your, you know, your response in that conversation was, you really were like, “Huh. Well, that's really interesting. Okay, where are you coming from? What is that about? What does that mean?”  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: You know, there was a curiosity to it, right?  SIOBHAN: Right.  ANDREW: And I think that it's such a powerful place to be, right? Like, curiosity and openness are so profound when we can find our way to those positions ... SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: But, you know, it's certainly not easy, right? Or, and you know ... and definitely not always possible or appropriate. SIOBHAN: Right. It's the edge of the cliff. ANDREW: Right?  SIOBHAN: It's that full space.  ANDREW: Yeah. SIOBHAN: And to even just -- I remember in that conversation, the topic we were talking about was so unfamiliar to me, in a way, I said to myself, it had never occurred to me to be mindful of this thing that even you're bringing up, now I can know, moving forward, to think about this marginalized group which I had not considered, when I create and when I collaborate and when I support. And to really be humble in that moment, and to notice my own privilege, having not had to think about it ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: And owning that to. A lot of ... There's a lot of assumptions made about who has privilege to check, and it's so many more people than you would imagine, so many more kinds ... I've been really exploring the privilege of someone who -- if you're a person who, if you're photogenic, if you're pretty, if you're thin, if you have money, there's so many different ways to look at it. It's so much deeper than just well, there's a binary and everyone on this end is victimized and everyone on this other end is victimized and not everybody on both sides of it have that awareness. And so, once you realize [laughing] that fact, it behooves you to be curious, because there's so much to learn.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: There's so many different angles to really realize where you have been blessed and where you continue to not be blessed based on things that are circumstances, perhaps. And it's very hard at times, but it can also be interesting, if a person has the space, you know.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. Yeah, I remember, a couple of years ago now, I did this really long, like 100 or 150 question survey that sort of evaluated your privilege, right? SIOBHAN: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And, you know, it wasn't like ... I've seen some shorter ones since then and I'm always kind of like, I look at them, and ah, it's like, it makes some sense, but this one was so in depth, and I remember, like, going through and sort of like answering the questions and seeing ... Seeing things that, you know, clearly highlighted my privileges, you know, for me. Like, oh yeah, that's totally me, I totally have, I have access to that, you know.  SIOBHAN: Right, right.  ANDREW: I went to university, right?  SIOBHAN: Right.  ANDREW: I did this, I did other things. And then all these other things that I never even -- I mean, many of which I was totally aware of but some of which I didn't even really consider part of the conversation, right?  SIOBHAN: Right.  ANDREW: You know, and things that I didn't have, that I was like, hmm, interesting.  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: And then I started to think about the ways in which, you know, certain kinds of situations around family structures and other things, you know, and the historical family structures ... SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: You know, whether your families stay together or don't stay together ... SIOBHAN: Right.  ANDREW: How those ... like, so many layers of conversation ... SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: Can impact these experiences, you know?  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: Yeah. And to me, that's where that curiosity comes in, right?  SIOBHAN: Mmmhmm, mmmhmm. ANDREW: How did this shape me or shape somebody else? How do these forces exist in our culture?  SIOBHAN: Right.  ANDREW: Why is one structure prioritized over another?  SIOBHAN: Right. Right. And then as consciousness deepens, and as awareness deepens, how do I transform or transmute all of the pain that I'm now aware of? [laughing] ANDREW: Right? Yeah. SIOBHAN: My own, and also society, because it's a lot. And it seems overwhelming at times when you really open up to that awareness, and which is why some people will choose, unconsciously or consciously, not to be aware of it.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. Well, and that brings us to a topic we were chatting a little bit about before the call, which is this spiritual bypassing piece, right?  SIOBHAN: Mmm. ANDREW: You know. When do we suddenly try and use, you know, a spiritual tool to skip our pain or skip our privilege or skip something else? You know? Instead of, instead of actually digging into it, you know? When do we avoid that shadow work?  SIOBHAN: Right.  ANDREW: Instead of like, honoring the wholeness of our experience and dealing with it all ... SIOBHAN: Right.  ANDREW: And then what kind of things come from that, right?  SIOBHAN: Right. Is it at that moment of realization when you open to ...? How much is really happening, how many different layers ... First of all, if you're still in it, there's that space of, oh gosh, how do I hold this for myself, and if you aren't in it, if you have traversed and if you have some kind of mobility, and this is more common as we interact across the streams of privilege, you know. I have access to all kinds of things through people who have access even though I don't have the access, and now there's this opportunity for guilt, this sense of unworthiness, or even thinking about, oh my gosh, my ancestors, they had this thing, they did this thing, and now I feel this sense of guilt over that.  And so, there's an opportunity, or a ... More accurate to say, a tendency to say, with spiritual practice, to say, okay, being spiritual, having arrived, being enlightened, that means I don't get to feel those things any more. [laughing] I get to be somewhere other than those things, because it's not holy to feel guilty, unworthy, you know, anger, hostility, it's not holy to feel afraid of things that are different, they mean, these things are not spiritual things, and so ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: We hear a lot of talk about quote, letting it go. ANDREW: Right.  SIOBHAN: I mean, it's so popular to talk about letting it go. This is a pet peeve of mine. [laughing] ANDREW: Uh huh. Tell me all about it!  SIOBHAN: [laughing] If you read my stuff, you'll hear me going on about it all the time cause it's like, we want to let the things go that are the darkest things, that are, they keep returning because they're very deeply embedded in our ancestral story or our own story or maybe just because it's a part of us, or we haven't integrated it, we reject it, and so there it is again.  And so, the notion that we can continuously keep trying to let something go, rather than just sit with it, you know, which is awful, and terrible, and we often don't want to do it, but, sometimes when we are able to just sit with it, without the judgement call, what this means, what this means about who I am, then, it has less of a pull, you know, even when it shows up. But it's counterintuitive, so instead of doing that, everybody ... You know, it's very popular in the spiritual community to want to let go, we're gonna let go, every full moon we're gonna let go! [laughing] And it's like all right, that's ... We can keep it up, I guess. [laughing] ANDREW: Yeah, I mean, I think that there comes a point, you know ... I have this body of work that I created called the Letting Go Work, right?  SIOBHAN: [laughing] I'm sorry.  ANDREW: And so, but the focus of the work is ... is actually to go and sit down with your shadow, right?  SIOBHAN: Right.  ANDREW: It's not ... It's not this process of like, you know, and then I'm gonna go into the spiritual bath and shower all this stuff off me, it'll go down the drain, it's gone forever.  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: It's the process of building conscious communication with the shadow stuff ... SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: And then sustaining it on the regular ... SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: So that, you know, you're checking in with that, and so your shadow has a chance to say, hey, you're ignoring this crap over here.  SIOBHAN: Right! ANDREW: Hey, what about this? Hey, this is ... You know, you're being inauthentic or you're denying something, right?  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: Or you're really mad, you've got to let it out, dude. Because if we can talk to that stuff, and sit with it and be present with it and engage with it, then we have a whole different relationship to it. Right?  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: But like, Carl Jung did not say when we get through the process of individuation that our shadow is gone.  SIOBHAN: Right. Poof!  ANDREW: We're living in relationship with it then, right?  SIOBHAN: Poof!  ANDREW: It matters. SIOBHAN: [laughing] ANDREW: Exactly. SIOBHAN: Yeah! And it's like, if a person comes from a place where they're not wanting to do that work, that very needed work of upholding space for this thing, then there's no way they would be able to, when they actually encounter that shadow out in the world. So this person who is marginalized in ways they can't understand, the person who doesn't have the privilege they have, if that person calls out to them, in the same way their shadow calls out to them, why would they have a different reaction? They would do the same thing. It would encourage that person to let it go. It would encourage that person to speak in terms of love and light and always gravitate toward and pay attention to love and light and they would say, ignore the things that don't meet or match that paradigm, the same way they say to themselves, and so ...  I always, there's a little part of me that kind of dies, when I hear someone say, “Turn, you know, turn your attention entirely away from this thing that is so much a part of you and so much your struggle and that you're feeling.” Cause it's like, people need that space for themselves, before they can have and hold space for other people, they're very much linked, and the notion that we can get away is somewhat contrary to the notion that we're all part of one great big thing, which is underneath a lot of spiritual practices anyway. ANDREW: Right. Well, there's definitely that. Yeah. It's one of the best pieces of advice I got when I first started working as a reader, was a good friend of mine basically was like, “So dude, make sure you deal with all your crap.”  SIOBHAN: [bursts out laughing] ANDREW: Deal with it, deal with it all, stay clean, you know, stay clear about it, work to stay free of it, because otherwise you're going to sit down with somebody and try and work and their pain is going to trigger your pain ... SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: And then it's going to go all sorts of sideways, right?  SIOBHAN: Right.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: Right. A business is amazing for really shining the light on every crevice that you thought ... [laughing] that you were done with! ANDREW: Right?  SIOBHAN: Oh, what about this? What about this here? [laughing] What about this thing that isn't finished?  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: Yeah. There's a ... a lot more compassion that could stand to be doled out in all directions. [laughing] ANDREW: Right? Inwardly as well, you know? All of it. Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: In all the directions. ANDREW: Yeah. So. What, what ... I'm going to put you on the spot here, okay, so forgive me. SIOBHAN: [laughing] ANDREW: You can opt out if you need to. SIOBHAN: [laughing] ANDREW: But like, what would you hope somebody would do if they were ... If they run into something new that they weren't aware of ... Would be kind of a problematic thing? You know, whether it's ... whatever its focus is, gender, race, or any number of sort of different things, but like ... What would you hope that people, how would they react?  SIOBHAN: Oh, man! It's tricky. And I say that because the answer would depend in a large part on who that person was. And here's what I mean. There's a spectrum. If a person had an abundance of energy and awareness and privilege and time, it would be really nice if we could have that curiosity response like, Oh! Why is this coming up? you know? Is there something to learn here? Is there something I don't know? Is there ... You know. I acknowledge that this has nothing to do with me because anything anyone ever says generally has nothing to do with anyone, because they're all dealing with their projections, but at the same time, is there something I could learn, if they had that space, but the honest to god truth is that some people, whatever their sense of abundance or privilege or access or whatever they have, they may not have the space.  And a second-best thing, in that scenario, would be if they could actually see that they don't have the space. So that looks like, Wow, I don't know what to do with this, but I know at least that I'm feeling a defensive response that I want to prove something and so maybe I'll just pause, and that's it.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: Just a pause where they can see and be with the fact that that's what they have the space for, they have the space for maybe, a pause, and even getting to the point of pause is HUGE. You know, cause the natural thing to do is just react ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: Savor, be right or reassure, whatever the deal is, and it would be amazing to even have the choice in a moment, and so, having the choices coming from working on things before you were even in the situation [laughing]. So, it's really hard to say, oh man, curiosity, willing to be open to possibly having missed something, possibly not knowing something, possibly being wrong. And, it depends on the person and if they have space. I actually wrote an entire blog post about that very thing you just asked. [laughing] ANDREW: Well, perfect! We'll put a link in the show notes. SIOBHAN: It was the most viewed blog post I ever wrote, and I wrote it that summer that we were just talking about ...  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: Right before that whole discussion cause, it was just so painful to see so much death and to be reminded that no matter how much you progress, or at least in my instance, how much I had progressed and how much better I felt. Yet within, that there were still those dark things that were my reality, that may be my reality, without, and so in there it really encourages people to have a dialogue with what they need, really, first, because if they don't know, they can't, they can't offer anything. They have to come first, and they have to also acknowledge a reality in which they may be coming first many places without any effort on their part. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: They may be central, they may be primary, they may be the first thought for entire nations. [laughs] And so, there's the thought for: Do I have the space for the person who unlike me, doesn't come first, in my nation, in my society? And being honest about that. Because some people have a culture that is ingrained and it's very fragile, and they actually may not know all that they may be capable of, they may not have been invited to step into their fullness just yet. And so the kneejerk reaction, which is natural and human ... It might be much smaller than they're capable of being. And so it can be exciting to think about interaction with a person where they actually realize more their resilience. ANDREW: Hmm. SIOBHAN: And they say, Oh, I've felt defensive and offended every time this has ever happened in my whole life, and maybe I have room for more reactions.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: You know?  ANDREW: Yeah. SIOBHAN: Maybe I have room for more than just my central and my primaryness. Maybe based on that solid self-care, you know, first step, I have more resilience than I thought. More capacity to notice when I'm expecting someone else to be resilient in my stead. And maybe perhaps a habit I have of doing that all the time. [laughs] ANDREW: Yeah. SIOBHAN: You know? ANDREW: Mmmhmm. Well, and I also think that pause is such a great notion. Because I think that ... I think that we don't always even understand what we might do, or how we might do it, or what could be possible?  SIOBHAN: Mmmhmm.  ANDREW: Or what might shift to make things possible over time. SIOBHAN: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: Like one of the things for me is, you know, I was aware for a while that this podcast was inaccessible to a bunch of people, right?  SIOBHAN: Mmmhmm, mmmhmm. ANDREW: You know, because they are unable to listen, you know? And, you know, and it took me awhile, like maybe six months of pondering that and then looking at what it would cost me to provide transcriptions. And then looking at my wallet and being like, “I can't do that.”  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: And then thinking about it and looking at options, and then, you know, it wasn't until one day ... And I was aware of Patreon the whole time, you know, which is like this sort of people pay per episode to support stuff.  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: I was aware of it the whole time, but I don't even remember what happened, but somebody talked about it in a certain way. And I was like, “I could use Patreon to make that happen,” you know?  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: And then that took a little bit of time, you know? And then now, every episode comes out with transcriptions. SIOBHAN: That's cool! ANDREW: You know, which is, which is, exciting, right? But like, but, if I had gotten stuck at I can't do this -- I was stuck at I can't do anything about this today. And left it at that, then it wouldn't be where it is now. You know? And that's one of the things that can come from the pause, right? SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: It can come from, you know, it's just like, putting a little sign up on the wall that says this is a thing I'd like to do at some point, somehow. SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: I'd like to change this issue, and then, and then, hopefully, time and circumstance shift in a way that allows it to be resolved ... SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: You know? You get an idea to do something different. And maybe it doesn't, you know, I mean, because there are still times when offering stuff like that is beyond the means of whatever it is that I'm doing, you know?  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: Some of the classes that I run are fairly small, and so it's not super possible, but, you know, we can set our intentions and we can ponder these things, and they can sort of open us up to other possibilities, right?  SIOBHAN: Right, right.  ANDREW: Yeah.  SIOBHAN: That's a powerful example. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: That's a really powerful example. Especially the notion of, even if I can't do this thing right this second, I have space to think about it. ANDREW: Yeah. SIOBHAN: You know, because some people, they file it away under, “I can't do that. The end.” And then they never have to think about it again. Like they're absolved. This is that bypassing coming up. It's like, “I couldn't in this one instance implement it, so I won't worry about it.”  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: But when there's a willingness to stay with it, to stay with this other reality that isn't yours, in that perfect example that you just gave, more is possible, eventually.  ANDREW: Yeah. And also, you know I think that it's also important to understand that perfect isn't the goal. Right? SIOBHAN: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: I mean, perfect would be lovely if it existed anywhere. Right?  SIOBHAN: Right. [laughing] ANDREW: But when we're working on these things, perfect can't be the goal. You know, because I think, at least for me, perfect equals immobilization. Right?  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: Perfect equals this space where I just can't continue because, you know, because I can't get there. Right? You know? I mean, there's nothing about my life that allows me enough time and space to make anything perfectly ... SIOBHAN: Right.  ANDREW: So I pursue just sort of working on stuff, right?  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: And I think that that's part of the ongoing sort of dialogue between curiosity and openness too, right?  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: Recognizing I will do my best, or what I perceive to be my best now ... SIOBHAN: Mmm. ANDREW: And then we'll see what happens, and then I will engage with what happens afterwards, and then I will adjust, and improve, or change or whatever if I have space for that.  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: Continue that process, right? Like it's not this sort of unfolding of this awareness of privilege in North America. SIOBHAN: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: I mean, I've been watching it flow for a while now, and it's not done, it's going to be done soon, it's going to continue, right?  SIOBHAN: [laughing] Right.  ANDREW: And that's, that's not even because ... Like, it would be tempting to be like, well, if everybody just accepted it, or was on board, or whatever, but I'm like, well no, because it's also a process of undoing, right? SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: And when you start moving stuff, you start having space to see other things. SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: And that doesn't mean that we shouldn't move anything because, you know, cause we'll find the dust bunnies under the couch, or, you know, whatever ... SIOBHAN: Right! [laughing] ANDREW: It's like, we should move those things and then we should move other things, and then we should see what's beyond that, right?  SIOBHAN: Right.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: Exactly. Yeah. And the notion ... The notion of doing our best is interesting also when we consider that nothing ... there may not be an occurrence in our lives that actually calls on us to consider perspectives outside of our own. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: And that's where the notion of resilience can come in. For the person who is used to staying in their own perspective, they are only so large. There is only so much that is possible. Which is why tarot can be useful. When you come together with people over tarot, there's another perspective that's introduced. We do this in interpersonal relationships of all kinds, sure. And the person who doesn't have that playback, or the person who is isolated from cultures that they've never met, they're never going to come across a person with this worldview, their concept of their best might be limited. It may not even reflect the reality for them. And so it's exciting to think about people being expanded, and their notion of what's possible being expanded as a result of all these dust bunnies that we keep finding.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. Yeah. Yeah, and when I grew up, I grew up in a suburb of Toronto. And, you know, when I went to high school, I think that, you know, in a school that probably had like 1000 students, there might have been a handful of people of color, you know?  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: Like, one table at the lunchroom was like, people of color, and that was it, you know? And that was indicative of the whole town, right? And, you know? And now as we open to that stuff, you know, and as we open to other cultures, we can, you know, expand more and figure things out differently, right?  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: And I think that it's easy to sort of look around, in, you know, and I always say, cause I live right in downtown Toronto now, right? Like one block from the gay village, and, you know, and in one of the most sort of diverse neighborhoods around, kind of thing.  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: And, you know, it's easy to sort of think that this is also it, right? You know? And when I travel to other places, I'm like, oh no. I live in a little pocket that is SO different than everywhere else, right?  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: And I mean not everywhere else, but like many other places, in a kind of a counterforce to that sort of living in the suburbs experience, you know, I now live the opposite, but both of them create their own limiting tunnels, right?  SIOBHAN: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: You know, I think it's ... I think it's really interesting to sort of try and understand what we're not living, wherever we're living, right? However we're living that, and sort of see what other people are actually up to.  SIOBHAN: Right. Right. And really honor our blinders.  ANDREW: Mmm. SIOBHAN: I ... Only in the last ten years, have I really appreciated the fact that I belong to the global majority. [laughs]  ANDREW: Mmmhmm! SIOBHAN: It's like, it's been the case for longer than that, but only in the last five to seven years, really, has that sat with me, and I had to go and seek out communities where they would discuss those things, for it to really become a part of my awareness.  ANDREW: Right. SIOBHAN: So, it's not even necessarily an appearance grants you access into different perspectives, you know?  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: It's a dialogue that you keep having, and keep needing to be willing to have in order to keep learning.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. Well, and I think that willingness to have it is such an important thing, right? And from my perspective, for me personally, willingness to get out, you know?  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: To look for it, and look for people who have the space to have that dialogue with me, right? SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: Because you want to be mindful that you're not sort of expecting ... SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: Somebody else to educate you, or whatever. Right? It's a thing that you should ask permission about, right?  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: And, you know? Because otherwise we don't want to expect that I'm gonna run to this person and be like, so tell me all about this disability that you've got ... SIOBHAN: Right! [laughs] ANDREW: How does that happen, right? Tell me all about, your like, the color of your skin and how that impacts your life and your culture or whatever.  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: You know, cause those things are ... That's problematic too, right? But like, looking for those permissions. And then being really really super willing to sort of, you know, if you're gonna ask, then listen. SIOBHAN: Right.  ANDREW: Like really listen, you know?  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: As we're recording this, in September I have a tarot deck coming out through Llewellyn, which is the Orisha tarot deck, right? Which is a deck that sort of explores the overlap of my involvement with traditional Afro-Cuban Orisha practices ... SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: And my initiation into them, and my experiences for all these years playing with tarot and working with tarot. And one of the things that I did when I started, was I sat down with a friend of mine who is an activist and a person of color. And I showed them a bunch of the drawings that I was working on, and I was like, “What do you think? What do you feel? How does this hit you?” Right?  And not because I feel that they can speak for everybody, but because I felt like I needed somebody to talk to, and they were a person who was, you know, an artist as well as, you know, a spiritual person and so on. And we talked about it a bunch, and they liked what I was up to.  And then when I got to the end of the deck, I was like, you know, I'd made some artistic choices, I'd depicted a lot of people of color in the deck, and people with different bodies, and all these kinds of things, and I wanted to sit down and like, just sort of say, like, “Do you have thoughts and feelings about what was going on?” You know?  And so, I sat down with the same person and with somebody else, and I showed them the art work, again, and there were specifically a couple of choices that I made that affected about a dozen of the cards, right? And, and so, and I didn't bring up anything, I just sat down and showed them or whatever, and both people thought it was great. They really liked what I had been doing, they felt like ... They felt like it was good representation. You know, like one of them said, “I feel like I see my uncle in this card, and I feel like I see this person in this card, I really like it.” And I was like, “That's great.” Cause I was totally willing to redo a bunch of these cards. You know? And, and I think that we need to be, if we're going to enter into this, we need to consider that we might need to redo stuff. And it might be inconvenient. Or it might be a burden, right?  SIOBHAN: Right.  ANDREW: You know, and also, in terms of perfect, this is two people's opinion? Right? Like this is not everybody, and I am sure inevitably, you know, because that's the way the world is, people will have issues, some people will have an issue, or maybe not, but like, but I don't expect that it's perfect, you know? But I also couldn't poll the world, you know? And, and, so, we need to find our way to engage this stuff. And find our way to keeping moving forward and making things happen, you know? So. SIOBHAN: That's interesting. That's interesting, and it's interesting because it's a very popular notion in the public eye now. The African tradition is very very in the center of everybody's eye, and many people are new to it, and so, there are people that will see it, they won't know anything about you and then they'll say, “[sigh], It's that, it's that, how popular it is,” and then they'll jump to that conclusion, and then there are some that are traditionalists and they'll have their own reasons why, and it's interesting because the diaspora is so huge ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: And people will have all different perspectives. And it's ... really hard to even try and get one consensus about what is right, what feels good, and I recently had an incident where I was taking a course and I asked about using some kind of Buddhist symbolism. I've been cultivating a practice of my own. And I said, “You know, I don't know how I feel about this, using this symbol. Does anyone practice, does anyone belong, does anyone come from this culture, how do you all feel?”  And I want to say, there were many people who said “Oh, it's probably fine,” or some that said ... I also thought it was really funny, they'd say, “Well, it's not the same when people of color do this thing.” And I thought, Oh! And that's interesting too, as if ... it's almost like a free pass moment? And I was like, that doesn't really resonate with me. Especially when you think about ... if you think about the question, you know, do I belong to a culture who has benefited from the oppression of this other culture whose symbolism that I'm engaging? If I were to say that as an American, and I were to think about Buddhist cultures that have been affected by American policy, the answer to that would be yes, regardless of my skin color, because I'm here. And I had to really decide for myself what felt appropriate to me ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: Even with the endorsement of people in the culture, because there was this moment of what is the history? How have I benefited? You know.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: And there's an opportunity ... I said to myself when I wanted to use the symbol: It's okay because I supported ... I supported Buddhists when I bought this. And I support them when I do this other thing. And I uplift this people in this way and that and then, there's a capitalist notion that I now own this symbol ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: And I can do what I want with it. Because I engage it ... And in my case, because I engage it personally, because I have a practice and I've been cultivating. It's like, this is my culture! ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: You know, I do it too! And it was tricky for me to sit with. The concept of even owning a symbol ... ANDREW: Mmm. SIOBHAN: Is somewhat capitalist and colonialist in nature. To have the rights to use it. And this is new for me to think about this, honestly. While I've thought about cultural appropriation before, I engaged it in depth this summer through that course that I was taking. And that was interesting to have that moment, because I had always thought, as long as I am engaging this culture, supporting this culture, and uplifting this culture, then it's fair game, the symbols are fair game. But I no longer necessarily believe that. It's totally case by case.  ANDREW: Do you use the symbol?  SIOBHAN: Did I use it? No. ANDREW: No?  SIOBHAN: I didn't. And I said to the people I was asking, I said, If I ever use images of my practice or Buddhist symbols that I engage, it will have the level of awareness in it that I've now garnered. It won't be an afterthought. It won't be like, Oh, I just used this symbol and then afterwards I think about it. It will be like, this is what I intend, I stand confident in this. And it will involve the foresight needed, just like you were talking about, sitting down with people and saying, “How do you feel about this? How do you feel about this? And ...” ANDREW: Yeah. SIOBHAN: And asking myself questions like, “What about this project, this representation, or this use of this symbol, amplifies further the voice of the people who have been disadvantaged ...”  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: In accordance to or in relationship to members' cultures that I belong to, and things like that, it won't be separate from that ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: I will be having that awareness. If I do use the symbol, ever. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. Yeah, you know, and making this deck, I certainly talked to my elders. You know, I sat down and showed my elder all the work, you know, to make sure that they were happy with it and comfortable with it, you know, and again recognizing that they don't speak for everybody, you know, like it's... SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: You know? I mean, and ultimately, from my point of view, when it comes to this particular project, you know, it's a ... I would have used the word Lucumí as the title of the tarot, but it's already taken by another deck, but like it represents a very specific set of experiences which are mine and my story and my journey and my ... SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: Understandings and my lineage, you know? And it doesn't represent, and certainly it doesn't pretend to represent, all of these diasporic traditions or any of those things, because that's impossible. Because they are related but they are not the same.  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: And, you know, and I'm also, I am not a Cuban, and I'm not a, you know, Yoruban or, you know, Brazilian or other things, you know? I'm not a person of color. I'm not any of those things.  SIOBHAN: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And those people and the way in which those traditions are practiced in different communities are always going to be different.  SIOBHAN: Right.  ANDREW: And, you know, that's the end of the conversation, right, you know? SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: And for me, the problem arises when people don't understand those implications, right? You know, like you're talking about, you know? Well, I can just -- I'm a Buddhist -- Look at me, I've got a brass Buddha statue, I'm good, right?  SIOBHAN: Right! [laughing] Right. Right, there's a lot of ... harm can be done in the assumption that because a thing was purchased, you own the rights to the culture ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: And you own the right to use that symbol, however you want, just cause you own it. And that's the capitalist way. ANDREW: Yeah. SIOBHAN: I bought that, it's mine, I can do whatever I want with it, and there's not a thought process about where did this fabric come from? What traditional weave is this? What are the conditions in the nation where they do this weave? And, are they in a situation where their culture is being eradicated?  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: I just heard about that recently. I can't remember the major design company that stole this technique from a region. And then another company came, went to that nation, and amplified the voices there, and created a school so they could continue teaching their cultural work. And there is an opportunity for more things like that to happen, the uplifting of voices that are fading away because of systemic oppression, but only if people get beyond their feeling of ownership of something ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: And their feeling of glory about something. And ... And it's really easy to lose track of that.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. Yeah. For sure. And I think it's a thing, you know, we live in ... Capitalism is such a thing, right? Says the person who runs a store, right?  SIOBHAN: [laughing] ANDREW: You know, but, I think that ... I was having this conversation with somebody recently about being anti-capitalist, right?  SIOBHAN: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And they were talking about somebody else who was running a business who was anti-capitalist and was running into all these challenges and problems for the people that they had, that they would struggle and stuff. And, I'm like, I don't think I'm anti-capitalist per se, I mean, I think that there are better ideas, for sure, but I'm definitely anti-exploitation. You know? And for me, like, capitalism, when we talk about capitalism, I feel lost and daunted by the immensity of it. You know? I mean, like, what am I going to do about this? You know? I ... It just hits a thing where I sort of get stuck. But I definitely work to, in my interactions, be anti-exploitive. You know?  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: And seeking to, you know, build and prioritize the independent people, independent deck makers that we're supporting, you know? Seeking to ask the questions about ... So I'm buying this thing, where did it come from? How is it made? You know? Is this palo santo sustainably harvested?  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: Or is this like you're in there with a chain saw cutting them down? You know? SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: And seeking that ... it adds a layer of work, but I think it also ... Beyond just being like, good practice, I think it also adds a layer of power to stuff as well, you know, when we're talking about spiritual things, you know? When we know that there's a chain of connection that has consideration for the earth and people and spirit and so on, I feel like there's a flow through there that makes things better, you know?  SIOBHAN: Right.  ANDREW: Yeah. SIOBHAN: If the opportunity is taken. And I believe that chain is there even if we don't take the opportunity. And then what are we connecting ourselves to, is the question.  ANDREW: Well, for sure, right?  SIOBHAN: You know, when we don't investigate it, what are the conditions where they mine this? What does the earth look like as a result of this mining? What happens ... You know? When this degrades, this thing I use, this single use thing, and, one of the things that really flabbergasted me [laughing], when I became more active online, in the online spiritual community, was the notion that spiritual practices are concerned with nature, and concerned with the preservation of nature, and I'm still feeling like, if I were to divulge the level at which I'm thinking about things when it comes to sustainability, I mean, I would be that crazy person. Like -- And I mean that like in the sense that I would be the outlier in the way that I often am.  Not to mean, not to say that, not to put a judgement call on the person who thinks differently or the person who is othered because of their mental health status, because again, I'm coming from that place too, but the person who is othered because [sigh], this is just too weird, this is just too hard, this is just ... but at the same time, we're in a time where it's so important that really everybody kind of gets on the same page about that, or else.  ANDREW: I just don't get those people, though, right? I'm like, this is a person who is way more passionate about this than I have capacity to do.  SIOBHAN: Right.  ANDREW: So I'm gonna like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna pay them for their passion, for their intensity, for being out there, you know?  SIOBHAN: Right.  ANDREW: Cause there are these people out there, you know? I have the good fortune to meet them and I'm just like, Yes! You're the good chain. I want to support this.  SIOBHAN: [laughing] Right.  ANDREW: And other people, I'm just like, “Hmm, I'm not sure, we'll see,” you know?  SIOBHAN: Right.  ANDREW: You know, like, cause lots of people, I run into lots of people doing business, and lots of people importing stuff from wherever, and I'm always like, hmm, you know. SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: And then there's people who are doing great stuff, you know? Like some of my suppliers, they know exactly where their crystals are coming from cause they're paying the people directly to mine them. You know? SIOBHAN: Right.  ANDREW: And they go down and, you know, give those people money and support their families and connect with them and connect with sustainability of these things, cause they want them to keep coming, right?  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: You know, and they want these people who have these abilities to keep doing it and to be supported, you know?  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: And I think that that's amazing when that, when I see that, you know?  SIOBHAN: Right.  ANDREW: So. Yeah.  SIOBHAN: I continue to be surprised how many people own shops, metaphysical shops, that look at me sideways when I say “Do you support ethical mining? Are these ethically mined?” And I just get blank faces. [laughing] You know, like, “What does that even mean? What are you even talking about? Oh, well probably, you know,” and it's like, this isn't an insane notion, in the spiritual community, it's not this bizarre notion, but it is, it is a lot of places. ANDREW: Yeah, and it's tough because there's so many, you know, there's stuff, certainly, 100 percent of our stuff is not, it's not clear where a bunch of it comes from. SIOBHAN: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: Because there's so many disruptions in the points of connection, you know? SIOBHAN: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: You know, but I think it's important to be mindful of it and to try and work on that, right? Cause otherwise we'll never move further in that direction, you know? So. SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: Yeah. SIOBHAN: Right. I look at my collection [laughing] ... My collection I've amassed at this point of gems and minerals, and my awareness of even the concept of ethical mining started, really, when I got more active in the Little Red Tarot community. She's been very vocal -- Beth, the owner -- about ethical mining and through her I learned, Oh, I really have to look out for this. Cause you learn in little pieces. The gems. It's the food, where's the food coming from? This plastic, what's going to happen to it when I'm done with it? You, obviously, you don't become aware of it all at once, or at least hopefully not, you work piece by piece, and then to really think about, what am I going to do with this stuff now that I already have it?  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: What is the most powerful purpose that I could put this to, now that I do already own it and really, staying curious about that, rather than shutting down, and rather than going into a guilt that doesn't serve.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. For sure. Well, I think that's a good spot to stop it and say, if you're curious about Siobhan, where do they come and find you? [laughing] SIOBHAN: [laughing] I'm at RadicalTarot.com.  ANDREW: Nice.  SIOBHAN: And, everything is there. I'm also everywhere else and they can find my Instagram. My Twitter is actually the most political place I am, ironically, that's the place I'm most vocal when it comes to how I feel. I am on Facebook, but it's only a matter of time, before, I think, I part ways with them. And my newsletter is definitely the safest way to make sure that you hear about anything that I'm putting forth, because I announce everything there.  ANDREW: Nice. Well, thank you so much for making some time and coming on the podcast today. It's been great.  SIOBHAN: Awesome! Thank you for having me!

Asali is a earthworker, healer, and card slinger. Asali offers a queer femme of colour resource and blog, tarot sessions, and writing. In this conversation, we dive into: Learning to trust your inner voice and listen deeper Why what you have around and within you is enough How grieving changes your DNA, and how you think and feel How grieving a parent’s death brings support for each in their own realms How beautiful to know that your loved ones who have passed on are supported and held by your ancestors How healing is an ongoing process, and can be tended in a variety of ways How there is magic in the ordinary How plant spirit allies are so incredibly generous in their medicine Learning to love your own love How you can search out resources that support queer, trans, and people of color (eg. tarot decks) How people exist in marginalized spaces and how we don’t show it How the temperance card helps you to transmute challenges into healing Why you have to work with what’s difficult Links Connect with Asali and her blog, teas, and tarot offerings at https://www.asaliearthwork.com/ Connect with Asali on Instagram: @asaliearthwork Connect with Asali on Twitter: https://twitter.com/AsaliEarthwork Connect with Asali on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/asaliearthwork/ Check out Asali’s Deck reviews here Check out Asali’s Ritual and Honey on Little Red Tarot here Check out Asali’s tarotscopes on Radical Tarot here Check out more episodes with Asali: Episode 46 of the Self Care Club podcast Tarot decks mentioned in this epiosde: Numinous Tarot Dust II Onyx Delta Enduring Tarot Next World Tarot  

Asali is a earthworker, healer, and card slinger. Asali offers a queer femme of colour resource and blog, tarot sessions, and writing. In this conversation, we dive into: Learning to trust your inner voice and listen deeper Why what you have around and within you is enough How grieving changes your DNA, and how you think and feel How grieving a parent’s death brings support for each in their own realms How beautiful to know that your loved ones who have passed on are supported and held by your ancestors How healing is an ongoing process, and can be tended in a variety of ways How there is magic in the ordinary How plant spirit allies are so incredibly generous in their medicine Learning to love your own love How you can search out resources that support queer, trans, and people of color (eg. tarot decks) How people exist in marginalized spaces and how we don’t show it How the temperance card helps you to transmute challenges into healing Why you have to work with what’s difficult Links Connect with Asali and her blog, teas, and tarot offerings at https://www.asaliearthwork.com/ Connect with Asali on Instagram: @asaliearthwork Connect with Asali on Twitter: https://twitter.com/AsaliEarthwork Connect with Asali on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/asaliearthwork/ Check out Asali’s Deck reviews here Check out Asali’s Ritual and Honey on Little Red Tarot here Check out Asali’s tarotscopes on Radical Tarot here Check out more episodes with Asali: Episode 46 of the Self Care Club podcast Tarot decks mentioned in this epiosde: Numinous Tarot Dust II Onyx Delta Enduring Tarot Next World Tarot  

Rose Red and Jaymi uncover the humble origins of Brown Girl Tarot and her fantastic library of resources of tarot for, and by, people of color. Amanda Michelle shares her inspiration for her tarot projects, which include Courtney Alexander, Beth of Little Red Tarot, and Tatianna Tarot. In between her busy school schedule, AMJ also helps facilitate the Brown Girl Tarot Collective, which gives people of color and women a safe space to discuss tarot, their projects, and where the divination system can go. Subscribe to the library updates, or to all the new posts from Amanda Michelle. Do you have a deck to submit or suggest? You can do that as well! You can also folllow AMJ on the following social sites:Twitter: @browngirltarotFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/browngirltarot/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/browngirltarot/

It's 2018, what's stopping you from infusing technology into your tarot practice? I share my journey to tarot reading through the use of tarot apps, specifically The Fool's Dog app, which has access to SO MANY different decks at your fingertips (for a really low price!). I can check out a deck, with the full guidebook, for only $3.99 and decide if I want to make the commitment to a physical deck. It's also great for when I want to be discreet and read for myself in public places like the doctor's office waiting room, or in my car. I can do a spread on the app without having to shuffle and lay out cards on the germ-infested office floor, risking ridicule by the rest of the patients. Win-win! I mention Beth Maiden of Little Red Tarot, and The Fool's Dog tarot app that can be found on Google Play. I also share that my favorite deck is Shadowscapes by Stephanie Law. --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/leorisingpodcast/support

Hello! This episode is a little off balance because we got a new kitten! Please pardon some of the random noise. Here I talk about doing readings for other people, setting boundaries, and a couple tips for reading in a group setting.     Transcript: Hello, and welcome to the Antifragile Tarot podcast. I am your resident cardslinger, Susannah, here on another witchy Wednesday to talk your ear off. This week, I am going to be talking about reading tarot cards for other people. I do want to issue a brief apology in advance; last week my husband and I adopted a new kitten, so she's a little rowdy and there might be a little bit more background noise than normal, since I'm recording this in my living room and there's nobody else home so I can't just lock her up.  I spent last weekend reading as Antifragile Tarot at the JC Oddities Market in Jersey City, which is where I'm based. I've been reading professionally for about a year now and I've been reading tarot cards for about 15, but one thing that a lot of new readers struggle with is whether or not they should read their cards for other people. I personally think there is really no wrong way to be a tarot card reader. I think that you are just as valid if you only read for yourself, or if you won't take money for tarot card readings, or if you only read for other people, or if you only read with Spirit guides, or if you never read with Spirit guides... I don't think that any of this makes you any less legit or anything like that. Some people have strong opinions about this kind of thing, but I try not to-- but one thing that new tarot card readers often come up against is when they should start reading for other people, if you are of a mind to do so. Now, if you read cards and you don't keep this a secret, people will start asking you for readings. It's just what happens. And if you are not a professional reader, you'll definitely want to give some thought to how you're going to go about this, and if you want to go pro that's also something I'll be covering today.   So, when you start reading cards... if you're just reading for yourself and your friends, and you're keeping it very casual and you're not claiming to be an exper,t I would have no problem giving tarot card readings as soon as you get your deck. I don't care if you're still reading the meanings off of Biddy Tarot or using the little book that came with your cards, if one came with your cards, I don't think that's a problem. I don't think it's a bad idea-- in fact, I think it's some of the best practice you're ever going to get. I gave pretty good readings right off the bat even though  I wouldn't have considered myself a professional reader in high school. And I look back at readings I did and they were pretty spot-on, so I was very happy with that and I don't see why anyone else wouldn't have that same experience. But you definitely don't want to start offering pro readings if you're still relying heavily on books. Again, I don't think that pros should never look at meanings; when I'm doing ab reading for somebody, especially some some of my more in depth readings like my 12-spoked wheel reading, I sometimes look at resources because the cards have so many different meanings and sometimes I'll get a sense of something that doesn't make any sense to me, and I will start poking around about what this means and I will realize that this makes perfect sense knowing some more context about the card. But I definitely would not recommend that you start charging people money if you are not yet feeling like you can look at any card in the deck and know exactly what it means. However, that doesn't mean you shouldn't read for other people. It can be really fun to sit with your friends and go over cards and talk about what they mean to you. So definitely don't be too intimidated to do that.  You can also join lots of groups or tarot card reading exchanges... littleredtarot.com, which is one of my favorite resources, has a lot of--  they just opened up reading exchanges for their alternative tarot community. You do have to wait for sign-ups, they're monthly sign ups, but it's a free community. So it's definitely something to consider. You just have to join their mailing list, I think. I haven't participated myself but it's a really good idea.  You can also doing some Facebook groups, and work from there. One thing I have learned is that when you're reading for other people, you do need to figure out some way to let them know that you're done. It's a lot easier when you charge money, because you can tell your friends "listen, I do a lot of free readings for you, but this is a job for me, so, you know, if you really want to book a reading with me, go ahead." I often do readings for my friends for free and I cut people discounts all the time. I also do readings for barter. But it is important that you establish some kind of boundary, because people kind of do take advantage. If you're at a point where you're feeling comfortable reading for other people and you're ready to start going pro, there's a lot of things you want to consider. I'm doing this as a very, you know, quick and easy side business. It's not a main source of income for me. I go to school, I have a full-time job; I mostly do this as an Etsy business and something I can do on weekends when I'm free. But you want to consider how you want to conduct your business. Are you someone who only believes in face-to-face readings? If so, running your business on Etsy will not work very well for you at all. Are you someone who thinks that you can only work with Spirit guides? That's something you want to be very upfront about, because a lot of people want to know where you're coming from. It's very important that when you start reading for other people, you let them know what you are and aren't comfortable with, what you do and don't read on, what you do and don't believe that tarot cards can do. I sometimes have that experience when I'm explaining my views on tarot to other people; you know, they go, "oh, you're the psychic." No, no, I'm not psychic. And they wonder why I would  market myself as a tarot card reader if I don't consider myself psychic. Why would I not just lie to them and tell them "why yes, I am a psychic! I can tell you everything." I don't do that because it's not ethical to promise things that I can't deliver on, and I would rather have people who want what I have to offer instead of people who think they're getting something from me and they're not. That would be fraudulent. And it's also important to figure out what you will and won't do readings on, whether you're doing them for your friends or you're doing them professionally. Most people who are taking money for card readings will not do readings on health issues, especially fertility, and we also don't tend to do readings on whether or not a court case will go through. You know, I always tell people that my advice does not replace a medical professional, it does not replace a lawyer, and that being said, there are times when I will do readings for people as long as I can tell that we're on the same page about it. I have clients who say "you know, I've been trying for a child, I recently had a miscarriage, I'd just like some guidance on the situation." And I tell them, "you know, I'm not a fertility expert, you need to consult fertility experts, but I will do a reading on the emotional aspects of it for you." And if I really, truly don't feel comfortable with a reading, I won't do it. And you should not feel bad if someone wants you to do a reading that you're not comfortable with. Let's say you have a friend who is cheating on their spouse, and they ant a reading on how thins are going with the new person. If you're really not comfortable with that, you are not at all obligated to do that reading. Please establish those boundaries for yourself.  And if you are seeking a tarot card reading, I think it's very important to make sure that you and the tarot card reader are on the same page. Make sure that you understand what they're offering. If you are seeking someone who, you know, will be able to talk to you about soulmates, or perhaps feels comfortable being a medium, connecting wyou with a deceased relative, that's something that you want to make very clear up front so that you can make sure that you're getting somebody who aligns with your beliefs and who aligns with what you think is reasonable.  In my experience with reading for other people, especially if, say, you're reading at a friend's party, or even if you go to a bar and do readings for other people, I think it's important to keep two things in mind. Number one, you don't want to bring your most prized deck to be handled by a bunch of strangers. I made that mistake. I had a Centennial Smith-Waite deck that belonged to my mother, who passed away, and I read professionally with that deck for about six months until I realized that other people shuffling it made it kind of grimy, and the cards were very bent and I had to stop reading with it and get a replacement as soon as possible so that I didn't destroy this deck, which is meaningful to me. And I don't-- I read with it sometimes, now, mostly for my own personal things.  Um, so if you're reading for your friends, you know, that's one thing, but sometimes you might wanna... one thing I liked to do, right before I went pro, was take my deck to bars. And I got a little mini deck to bring, it's a Rider Waite deck, it was like ten bucks and I bring it with me to bars; I've gotten beer spilled all over it, and god knows what else, but I don't mind, because it gives the deck some character, and it's easy to replace for me. Um, if you are goingto be sitting in one place for a while, make sure that you bring water and snacks-- snacks are really important. If it's gonna be cold, you should bring something, like an extra blanket or sweater. I made that mistake; I did one market where the heat wasn't on, and... I mean, I was cold. Also, if you're doing an outdoor festival reading, really make sure that you bring sunscreen, and a hat, because I and my friend who helps me set up have gotten sooo sunburned, so it's really important that you protect yourself. Um, other things to keep in mind when reading for other people, especially in big groups, you want to figure out if there's something that you like to do to begin and end readings. For me, that's a little difficult, because I don't do them very ritualistically, as a profession; I will do tarot readings ritualistically or utilize tarot in ritual in my personal practice, but when I am reading tarot for other people, that's not really what I do. So, one thing I've settled on, I like to use the phrase, you know, "is there anything in particular that you'd like to know about today?" It doesn't sound like much, but maybe it's how I say it, or the attention I'm giving the person who's sitting across from me, but that usually starts getting us in a place where we are ready to discuss things and get down to business to defeat the Huns- no, okay, not that.  Um, another thing that I like to do is that.. I shuffle the deck. If it's a close friend or I feel really comfortable with the person, I'll let them shuffle the deck, but, as I mentioned, letting random people shuffle your deck is the quickest way to wear it out. So, I shuffle the deck and then I let them cut it however many times they want. You may wish to experiment with having people deal out the cards themselves, wherever you tell them to put them, but a lot of people like it if you do that because, remember, when you're doing a tarot card reading, you are the expert for someone else. You are their guide. And you have to make sure that you feel comfortable with that. You have to make sure that you feel like you are in a position where you can be honest about what the cards say and that you're also willing to say, "listen, this is what the tarot cards say, but my personal advice is..." blah blah blah. That really only applies if you're reading for a friend; if you're reading for a stranger, unless they're asking you for your personal opinion, you should pretty much stick to what the cards are saying.  The thing with being a tarot card reader is also that there are images that people expect; you know, I have a black tablecloth and I have crystals all over it, but I don't necessarily dress like a stereotypical tarot card reader. For one thing, that's a really inaccurate and stereotypical caricature of Romanis; I don't use the g-word because it's a slur, unless someone who is Romani is using it themselves, but people expect a lot of that. And you know, I just look like a typical goth girl, I'm usually wearing some kind of black, a black skirt, and I have piercings and tattoos, and I do still try to give off a vibe. My vibe is interesting, a little offbeat, and when you're reading for other people, you want to set up that vibe for yourself. Is it important to you that you have candles around you? Although you want to be careful, because tarot card readers-- tarot cards are made of paper, tarot cards readers are hopefully not made of paper, if you are made of paper I am surprised that you're able to listen to this podcast. You may want to wear a specific piece of jewelry; my husband once got me a big crystal on a rope. I also know someone who makes these really great wrapped crystals, you can look her up on NilsasElementalArt on Etsy and Instagram, and she makes really cool wire-wrapped things and can tell you all about the stones and her process. So, wearing something like that can really get you in the mood. You may also have a robe you like to wear, or music you like to put on.  This is something you want to do even if you are doing a remote reading; let's say, like me, you offer readings over email, you may want to get yourself into a space. When I do readings over email, I lay out the cards, I set them up, and I take a photo of them; I take them in the kitchen because I have the best natural light in there. And I used to use a tarot cloth but I managed to shrink it in the wash, oops, right now I just do it on wood and I have different crystals around and different things that help kind of connect me. I'm not someone who believes that crystals have inherent energy, I don't do crystal healing, but crystals provide a nice thing for me to focus on. And something I like to tell people is that the placebo effect can have physical consequences, so I think it is naive to dismiss the power of ritual, or tarot cards for that matter, as a placebo or confirmation bias, because it can really affect change in your life, for good or for bad.  So, these are things that you want to think about when you decide to read for other people. Um, you also want to start thinking about pricing. You can look up what other people are pricing. Some popular ways of pricing are a certain amount per card, you can price for a time slot... doing it per card is more useful if you are at party kind of events, or doing it online, over the phone... if you're doing it at a festival, I've done a bunch of festivals, I personally charge per reading. I do three cards for five dollars, I do five cards for ten, and if it's a really slow day or if I have arranged with the person from the event to offer it, I do offer Celtic Cross readings, for between $15 and $20 depending on if I'm trying to run a special that day. I normally charge $20 for a Celtic Cross. [NOTE: these prices were current at the time of the podcast but are subject to change and do not reflect the current price model]. Um, these prices may change, by the way, if you're listening to this podcast years from when I publish it, I can't guarantee that my prices will always be the same, but you want to figure out what's worth it to you. You may also decide that, let's say, you are doing readings... a friend of mine has done readings at music festivals that she's worked at and she doesn't do them for money necessarily, um, it's kind of a pay what you want, please donate to me, here's a tip jar kind of thing. I also, personally, have a tip jar. I find that's useful, especially becuse I'm the kind of reader who frequently throws in extra readings for people; let's say someone says "well, I want to know about my love life and about money," I'm like, "alright, we'll do a five card reading and we'll see what comes up." And usually it becomes pretty clear that it's about their career or about their live life, one way or the other, and I usualy throw in an extra three-card reading about the other thing that they wanted to know about, if it really didn't seem to cover both bases.  If you are reading for friends, uh, you can kind of have more fun with it. I would like to start offering bigger spreads, bigger life arc things, also just reading that incorporate more cards that are in the deck. So, I think the most I do right now is about twelve, but I would love to do a reading that incorporates almost the whole deck. Or maybe even the whole deck! But I'm gonna be practicing with that so I'm gonna reach out to a few friends and say "hey, you wanna be a guinea pig for me?" And that's a great way to dip your toe into reading for other people.  But if you start doing readings for others, and you start to realize that it's not for you, don't worry about it. There's nothing that is making you continue. I've seen plenty of people who felt that they'd really enjoy reading professionally and they realized "you know, this isn't for me," and they just closed up shop. And other people can have whatever feelings they want about it but you are not obligated to read for anybody. Ever.  On the flip side, you might be like me, and love reading for other people and kind of really enjoy doing that, but have a lot of trouble reading for yourself. I often draw unpleasant cards when I read for myself; unpleasant cards doesn't mean Death. In fact, I would like to see the Death card more, maybe? I guess I've had a lot of changes in my life, maybe I don't want to see the Death card more. But by unpleasant cards I mean The Tower, or the Nine  of Swords, the Three of Swords, pretty much all the swords... also, the Emperor likes to come out to play, and the Emperor can be a really nice card, it's kind of a father figure, but when the Emperor comes out to play in my cards, it usually means the patriarchy is keeping me down. It came up once when a friend did a reading for me about getting my tubes tied, and it turned out that I haven't been able to schedule that procedure even though I still want to do it. But when the Emperor was crossing me, it was the patriarchy, and it's like, "well yes, yes I do want to get my tubes tied, cos of the current political situation, funny that the cards should catch that."  So, you know, when I'm reading for myself, I find I often read very critically. I am my own worst enemy and I always have been, and I feel like I have a stumbling block when I do that. But, at the point I'm at now in my reading, I also think that I'm doing other people a disservice by not reading for myself more regularly, so I'm trying to incorporate readings for myself around the new moon, and the full moon, and sometimes as needed. I had a surgical procedure done recently so I read before that, and I actually did catch that it wouldn't fix my issue, and it didn't! I still have kidney stones!  So, it can be really valuable to explore reading for yourself and reading for others. Just don't feel like you're locked in one way or the other to your readings. And don't feel like you're not enough of a reader if you aren't doing it professionally. There's no particular reason that you should be doing it professionally. So don't think that you have to do that. I decided that enough people were asking me for readings that I might as well try to make some money from it, and I also still give away readings all the time. I do them for friends, no problem. I also get to try out more fun things or decks that I'm not as comfortable with when I'm reading for free. So there's definitely cons to being a professional reader. But have some fun with it, and see how you feel, uh, feel free to hit me up in the comments, or shoot me an email at antifragiletarot@gmail.com to discuss your experiences with reading for other people. As a reminder, I mentioned a few things throughout this podcast that, uh, you might want spend money on, like my friend Nilsa's art (again, that's NilsasElementalArt, N I L S A apostrophe S, or no apostrophe on instagram, elemental art) and Little Red Tarot, the Alternative Tarot Course, um, I recommend these things because I think they're worth recommending. I don't get any money from them, I'm not getting sponsored to do this, I am telling you about them out of the hopes that you will appreciate them as much as I do.  So, I hope you have enjoyed this week's podcast. I'm sorry it was a little all over the place, I was wrestling a kitten for most of it, and I will catch you next week. If you have any ideas of what you'd like to hear me go over in one of these podcasts, again, shoot me an email, leave a comment, I am all ears. Or all mouth. I guess all voice, for you.  Alright, have a witchy and/or wonderful week. Bye!

Thanks for tuning in to another episode of The Fat Feminist Witch Podcast! Today I'm interviewing Andi Grace, regular contributor at Little Red Tarot and curator of We Believe You: Femmes Surviving Toxic Masculinity, a multi-media zine featuring stories, essays and works of art from femmes and women living in a patriarchal society. We also talk a little about magical boundaries, and being willing to take care of yourself and your own healing. Find out more about Andi and get your own copy of We Believe You at her website witchcabinet.com.   If you like The Fat Feminist Witch Podcast, want to support it, and want to connect with other like-minded witches, consider joining my new group - the Witch n' Bitch - where I'll be doing regular live video broadcasts, rituals, and discussions, running a regular book club, incense subscription, and a scetchy herbs and magic rocks program for those looking to learn more about natural magick. Visit my Patreon page for more details and to sign up! Sign up by May 16th for your june membership. The Blog: http://thefatfeministwitch.wordpress.com Facebook: The Fat Feminist Witch Twitter: @fatfemnistwitch Instagram: FatFeministWitch Pinterest: FatFemnistWitch As always the opening and closing track is Back To The 90s (Douglas Mulvey AKA D-REX) / CC BY 4.0