Podcasts about lucum

Welcome back to another episode of The Art of It All! This week I caught up with Djali Brown-Cepeda, a cultural preservationist and award-winning filmmaker from Lenapehoking (New York City), working within archival, film, and television spaces to preserve Black and Brown stories. As an Afro-Indígena Caribeña and Olorisa Yemayá (initiated priestess of the Lucumí tradition), her work is rooted in remembrance, reclamation, and rematriation, centering oral tradition and lived experiences as pathways toward cultural restoration. She is the founder of NuevaYorkinos, a digital archive and multimedia project documenting Latino and Caribbean New York City through family photographs, videos, and stories. Thanks for tuning in!  Follow Djali Brown-Cepeda on Instagram here and on Substack here.Follow NuevaYorkinas on Instagram and check out the website for more info on how to submit your story. This conversation was edited for length and clarity. Follow the show on IG at @theartofitallshow and follow the host at @dariasimoneharper! Don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe. Sharing an episode with a friend never hurts either;)

El colombiano quedó en la historia del equipo italiano, pues se rompió una sequía de 51 años de no obtener un título en esta competencia.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

El mejor equipo deportivo de la radio con las mejores noticias. Escuche el programa completo de Blog Deportivo del 14 de mayo de 2025.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode #59: I talk with Juno Zavitz about his Lucumí practice and journey toward priesthood. We also dive into topics like Christian anarchism, social work, queerness, and more.

Que Ruede la Pelota - Miércoles 13 noviembre 2024 - Davinson Sanchéz y Jhon Lucumí en el radar del Real Madrid - Actividad colombiana en la Champions League Femenina - Bogotá liderando el medallero de los Juegos Nacionales Juveniles

Silver Daniels was raised Wiccan by his mom. But as a young adult, he eventually found his way to Lucumí. We met Silver in Season 2, Episode 2: The Church of Lukumi Babalu Aye, and learned about Wicca in both Season 1, Episode 1: Magical Remixing and Season 2, Episode 1: The Starry Minos.  Listen to these episodes first to catch all the nuance, and enjoy Silver's fun storytelling!

Hernán Peláez y Martín de Francisco conversaron sobre la lesión de Jhon Lucumí.

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In 1987, the City of Hialeah, Florida passed local ordinances that prohibited animal sacrifice for religious purposes. The laws targeted one group in particular – the Church of the Lukumi Babalu Aye. The City was taken to court, and the case eventually made it all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court. The justices ruled against the city and called the ordinances "religious gerrymandering.” Almost 40 years later, African Diaspora Religions like Lucumí still face legal discrimination over core practices. These challenges reveal a long history of bias against African Diaspora practices, beliefs, and worldviews. Featuring Dr. Danielle Boaz, Frank Burgos, Silver Daniels, and Mindy Marqués.

This week Jami chats with Ben Stimpson about the magic of the energy that flows through our ancestry. The land of your people, either by lineage or tradition, speaks to you and calls you to the precipice of exploring who you truly are. Ben Stimpson, BA, MBACP (He/They/Them) is a therapist, author, folklorist, storyteller, and spiritual practitioner.  Ben has been involved with the magical community for over twenty years with deeper involvement in a selection of spiritual traditions including Advaita Hinduism, Lucumí, Espiritismo, Druidry, and British Folk Tradition. In 2023, Ben's published "Ancestral Whispers: A Guide to Developing Ancestral Veneration Practices" (Llewellyn Worldwide) Learn more about Ben and his offerings. >> www.benstimpson.com

La historia de Tita conlleva un tema algo delicado. La tía de Tita era Santera; practicaba la religión Lucumí, que creen en Santa Barbara de Shangó, y a la virgen de la caridad la llaman Yemayá. En realidad esta religión pagana tiene raíces africanos, por lo que practican ritos diferentes a la religión cristiana.

Sean bienvenidos a un nuevo directo desde Twitter, estamos ya en el UTP291 a solo 9 de celebrar nuestro programa 300. Como oirán en el breve flash previo al programa necesitamos que nos envíen audios de menos de un minuto para felicitarnos, criticarnos o simplemente comentar alguna cosa para que los publiquemos en el programa 300. Aunque no somos muchos sí podemos presumir de tener una audiencia bastante fiel en Buscadores de la Verdad y estaremos encantados de escucharles en ese programa especial. Hemos hablado de muchos temas diferentes durante la nueva etapa en solitario desde que abandoné Canal Zero. Podríamos decir que el primer programa con el sello de UTP podría ser el UTP33 La bomba nuclear que quiso fabricar Franco de julio del 2017. Desde entonces son 258 programas en estos casi siete años, o lo que es lo mismo, un programa cada 9 días. Casi uno a la semana. No ha resultado fácil compaginar la vida familiar y laboral para obtener el tiempo necesario de investigación, lectura y desarrollo de estos casi 260 programas. Y hemos hablado largo y tendido de múltiples temas que pensamos habrán sido de su interés. Hoy tocaremos un tema que creo que no hemos desarrollado nunca y es el de como las élites psicopatocraticas que están en el poder están ejecutando los mismos rituales que se realizaban por ejemplo en el antiguo Egipto. De vez en cuando llega a la opinión pública alguna pincelada como por ejemplo el lanzamiento de esos tres cohetes por parte de la NASA con el nombre de Apep. Apofis, o Apep, representaba en la mitología egipcia a las fuerzas maléficas que habitan el Duat y a las tinieblas. En la wikipedia podemos leer: “Es una serpiente gigantesca, inmortal y poderosa, cuya función consistía en interrumpir el recorrido nocturno de la barca solar conducida por Ra y defendida por Seth, para evitar que consiguiera alcanzar el nuevo día. Para ello empleaba varios métodos: atacaba la barca directamente o culebreaba para provocar bancos de arena donde el navío encallara. Todo ello tenía sólo una finalidad: romper la Maat, el «orden cósmico». Apofis representa el mal, con el que había que luchar para contenerlo; sin embargo, nunca sería aniquilada, solo era dañada o sometida, ya que de otro modo el ciclo solar no podría llevarse a cabo diariamente y el mundo perecería. Para los antiguos egipcios era necesario que existiese el concepto del mal para que el bien fuera posible. Los egipcios creían que, cuando el cielo se teñía de rojo, era a causa de las heridas provocadas a Apofis. También, interpretaron que los eclipses eran obra suya, en la lucha en la Duat.” La vimos en acción en la película del 2016 Dioses de Egipto donde nos describían como reales los mitos egipcios. Y es que cuando produjeron esa película allá por 2016 había otra superproducción de la misma temática que nunca vio la luz, Anunnaki de Jon Gress. Se rumoreo que dejaba demasiado claro como las élites siguen rindiendo culto a estas deidades antiguas. El director de Dioses de Egipto tiene una filmografía envidiable con películas como El cuervo, Dark City, Yo, robot o Señales del futuro y el mismo se ha quejado de que “la dictadura de lo poco original y lo políticamente correcto mató a sus Dioses de Egipto”. El director que es egipcio tuvo que pedir disculpas por la falta de diversidad racial en el reparto y el film fue tan duramente criticado que este magnífico director ya no ha vuelto a rodar. La película con un presupuesto de 140 millones de dólares fue duramente criticada y le costo muchos años llegar a recuperar dicha inversión. Parece que mostró más de lo que debía mostrar y por eso fue castigada. De la otra superproducción que se estaba realizando a la vez ya nunca se supo nada y ahora ni siquiera encontramos restos en internet salvo en páginas de conspiración. El director de Dioses de Egipto nos habla de uno de sus proyectos inacabados: “En una situación en particular estuve trabajando en un proyecto llamado 'Paradise Lost', y estuvimos en ella durante dos años. El estudio gastó 25 millones de dólares, pero lo cancelaron y dijeron: "no vamos a hacerla". Dijeron que era el presupuesto, pero no creo que fuera eso, era demasiado... Ya sabes cómo es el poema de John Milton, tienes a Lucifer transformándose en un santo... Fue considerado blasfemia cuando se escribió en el siglo XVII y todavía parece como algo que enfadaría bastante.” El cine siempre nos mostró el verdadero rostro del poder y los recovecos mas oscuros de éste, aunque muchas veces lo hiciese de una forma ininteligible para el común de los mortales. Esto lo vimos al analizar películas como Eyes wide Shut, El destino de Júpiter o Blade Runner, todas ellas diseccionadas en nuestros Videos Es Clave. Una y otra vez vemos como utilizan fechas clave o nombres mitológicos desde la ciencia más rancia como la NASA, dónde en una burla infinita nos contó que solo podia sacar 33 tornillos de los 35 de la cápsula OSIRIS-REX que envió recientemente a tomar muestras a un asteroide. Un Tuitero y escritor llamado Hidden Amuraka nos cuenta como Estados Unidos es “la última encarnación del Antiguo Egipto y los sistemas más antiguos se construyeron sobre el propio Egipto”. En Breve historia del futuro Jacques Attali nos habla de lo que el llama corazones del imperio y como se van desplazando por el mundo según van apareciendo innovaciones técnicas capitales como el timón de codaste, la máquina de vapor, el motor de explosión y por último la electricidad. Es curioso como el señor Attali no asigna ninguno de esos corazones del imperio en España, que fue un gran imperio durante varios siglos. Si leemos los artículos del puntal de Dios en mi blog y más concretamente el que va a publicar LA LEYENDA DE LAS ESTRELLAS ERRANTES Y LOS REYES DEL TIEMPO (PARTE III) veremos cómo España estaba en la pomada con los reyes imperiales Carlos V y Felipe II. Attali no nombra a los imperios clásicos babilónico, sumerio, egipcio, griego o romano y sin embargo si nos habla de Brujas, Venecia, Amberes, Génova, Amsterdam, Londres, Boston, Nueva York y por ultimo Los Angeles. También nos habla de la última transformación hacia una sociedad nómada que ya no tiene un punto definido en la Tierra desde donde ejercer su poder ya que los objetos nómadas le otorgan ese poder esté donde esté. El poder actual radica en los objetos que utilizan cosas aparentemente intangibles…por ejemplo estoy escribiendo esta entradilla con un ordenador Mac llamado aire. Yo, sin embargo estoy más de acuerdo con el tuitero Hidden Amurak que nos dice que “TODO queda claro cuando uno se da cuenta de que Egipto se convirtió en Grecia, y Grecia en Roma, Roma en Inglaterra e Inglaterra en los Estados Unidos”. No es ningún secreto que los Padres Fundadores Masónicos diseñaron y construyeron Estados Unidos herméticamente. Por ejemplo la ceremonia conocida como el Día de la Inauguración Presidencial ocurre cada cuatro años el 20 de enero (o 21 de enero si el 20 cae en domingo) en el edificio del Capitolio de EE. UU. en Washington D.C frente al obelisco. Tenemos una hierogamia simbólica en el balcón del Capitolio de los EE. UU., que simboliza el vientre siempre embarazado de Isis, frente al Monumento a Washington, el falo erecto de Osiris, con una vesica piscis cual vientre de Isis fertilizado a sus pies. “Un nuevo presidente masónico ha nacido”. Este mismo tuitero nos cuenta de donde proviene que la mayor festividad del último Imperio caiga justamente un dia 4 de julio. “Decir que la Estrella Sirio, la Estrella Ardiente de la Masonería, es importante para las Órdenes Herméticas sería quedarse corto. La Estrella del Perro es el foco central de la religión y las enseñanzas del Antiguo Egipto. Sirio es un sistema estelar triple, astronómicamente, la base de todo el sistema religioso egipcio y, posteriormente, dogón. Los Movimientos Celestes determinaron el Calendario. Su salida heliaca (y la inundación del Nilo) marcó el comienzo del Año Nuevo egipcio. Hasta 35 días antes y 35 días después de que nuestro sol esté en conjunción con la estrella Sirio, aprox. 4 de julio, queda oculto por el resplandor del sol. El 4 de julio es aprox. el Afelio Solar. El Afelio Solar es el punto de la órbita de la Tierra que está más alejado del Sol Y el Sol está en Conjunción con SIRIO, nuestro Sol Espiritual, la Estrella Ardiente de la Masonería. Los egipcios se negaron a enterrar a sus muertos durante los 70 días que Sirio estuvo oculto a la vista porque se creía que Sirio era la puerta al más allá, una puerta a la Duat y cuando Nuestro Sol Físico estaba en conjunción con nuestro Sol Espiritual (Sirio), se creía que era la puerta. estuvo cerrado durante este período anual de 70 días. Los egipcios creían que Sirio era el lugar al que irían las almas de los muertos después de abandonar la tierra, la Duat. Muchas culturas antiguas creían que había otras formas de vida en Sirio que harían contacto con la tierra para ofrecer conocimiento e inteligencia para hacer avanzar a la raza humana.” Es por esto que los Padres Fundadores decidieron vincular el Nacimiento y el Destino de los Estados Unidos a Sirio porque se pensó que esto traería gran prosperidad a la joven nación como lo hacia con Egipto en la antigüedad dado que la aparición de Sirio conocida como la Estrella de Isis o la Estrella del Nilo, marcaba con la inundación anual del Nilo la prosperidad de la que dependían los egipcios para la agricultura. Junto a la Luna y al Sol, en la francmasonería Sirio es el símbolo más importante. Relacionando a la Luna con Isis y al Sol con Osiris, los masones creen que de las dos fuentes de conocimiento (el bien y el mal, el blanco y el negro, lo femenino y lo masculino) nace el hombre perfecto: Horus, que encuentra su representación con la estrella Sirio. Para los masones Sirio, el Ojo en el Cielo, se relaciona directamente con la liberación personal, a través de la adquisición de conocimiento y de alcanzar la verdad absoluta. Verdad que ocultan tras un velo a los profanos. Vemos una clarísima referencia a las dotes liberadoras de Sirio en la película El Show de Truman cuando este se ve sorprendido por algo que cae del cielo, un foco con una pegatina en la que se puede leer literalmente: «Sirius (Canis Major)». El puntal de Dios en sus tres artículos bajo el apelativo de “los reyes del tiempo” nos viene a contar “la conexión entre el mundo material y el inframundo, el conocido mundo de los vivos con el desconocido más allá de después de la muerte y que recrean en esas historias, del que estamos convencidos que es fundamental para la conducción de voluntades.” Yo también he querido plasmar esa misma conexión en lo que serán tres artículo sobre Daniel Sancho. En el primero titulado DANIEL SANCHO. MUERTE Y RESURRECCIÓN DE OSIRIS EN TRES ACTOS ya adelantaba que serian tres, como son tres las triadas de dioses en todas las culturas del planeta. Los 14 pedazos en que es cortado Osiris han sido vueltos a utilizar en este macabro asesinato. En el segundo, DANIEL SANCHO Y LA RESURRECCIÓN TRAS LA PASCUA, les mostraba las conexiones de la iglesia católica con tradiciones mucho más antiguas como esa hierogamia del Cristo de Mena que nos recuerda a la Inauguración Presidencial con obelisco y vesica piscis del Capitolio norteamericano. También les comente la enorme casualidad que el caso de Daniel Sancho “reviva” justamente tras el eclipse del 8 de abril que para mas casualidad pasara por 7 ciudades llamadas Ninive, el nombre de una antigua ciudad babilónica. En todas las culturas se siguen realizando rituales a estas divinidades del cielo que no son otra cosa que llamativos fenómenos atmosféricos como el eclipse que tuvo lugar este lunes 8 de abril o las danzas erráticas de los planetas. Hoy vamos a hablar de ese manejo del tiempo y sus posibles mecanismos que a la larga les permite a los psicopatas que nos mal gobiernan mantenernos en esta jaula con barrotes de oro. Decía el puntal de Dios: “Los esclavos debemos sentir el aroma de la libertad como si fuera de un uso exótico, «que esté ahí», que creamos poseerla. Tenemos la sensación de sentirla con nosotros. Algunos incluso se atreven a arengar que nos pertenece «por derecho divino» (es ironía, no se espanten). Pero no. La imaginamos cercana y tangible, casi dentro de nosotros, pero tan sólo es una fragancia que nos dejan percibir de manera provisional, llena de elementos que son volátiles. Desaparece todos los días para que volvamos a sentir su perfume al día próximo, al rato después, o a la mañana de la siguiente jornada. Y esa es justo la sensación con la que nos mantienen los señores que mueven nuestros hilos, los llamaremos «titiriteros«. Creer que lo eres, «libre«. Decía el escritor, y anterior esclavo afro-americano, Frederick Douglass, que para mantener contento al esclavo era necesario que no pensara. Que debían de oscurecer su visión moral y mental. Aniquilar su poder de razonar. Los amos de los «animalitos» procuran saber y controlar todo lo que oyen, ven y piensan sus criaturas. En nuestros tiempos esto les resulta muy fácil, nosotros mismos facilitamos esa información, algunos incluso con gusto. El patético «yo no tengo nada que esconder». “ ………………………………………………………………………………………. ¿Alguien me explica por qué en el episodio 5 de la 2a temporada del Ministerio del Tiempo (2016) que trata sobre la gripe Española la puerta por la que llega el virus es la ¡2020!? ¿Casualidad o causalidad? La epidemia empieza en el Ministerio el 25 de febrero del 2016. Y la del covid empezó también oficialmente en España el 25 de febrero del 2020. ¿Casualidad o causalidad? Grabado en 2015, emitido en 2016, serie el Ministerio del Tiempo 2a temporada 5 episodio, gripe Española y ¿cuál es el único número de puerta qué aparece en todo el episodio? ¡Bingo! La 2020. ………………………………………………………………………………………. En marzo de 2020 antes incluso de que todos se volvieran locos con el COVID nosotros realizamos un podcast titulado “UTP86 Coronavirus, Akituatraco a las 8” donde les contábamos como ese ritual de salir al balcón a las 8 no fue para nada casual. Alli les contábamos como de esa manera estabamos celebrando la fiesta de la primavera que muchos pueblos siguen celebrando con pequeñas variaciones pero sin apartarse mucho de la creación original que es el llamado festival babilónico de Akitu o Akitum. Este festival babilónico tradicionalmente comenzaba el 4 de Nisannu, fíjense que el primer mes del calendario judio es el mes llamado Nisán. En dicho mes se celebra la Pésaj (en hebreo es Pascua. Y Pascua significa básicamente "paso" o “salto". Es una festividad judía que conmemora la liberación del pueblo hebreo de la esclavitud de Egipto. Este año la Pésaj o pascua judía comenzará al atardecer del 22 de abril del 2024 y culminará al anochecer del 30 de abril del 2024. Curiosamente el festival de la primavera babilonico se llamaba Akitu o traduciéndolo al castellano como el corte de cebada…como ven la cebada es muy importante…por cierto, la cerveza siempre fue un invento hebreo por si no lo sabían. “Para el almacenaje de alcohol durante la Edad Media no era utilizada una estrella roja, sino que los cerveceros bajomedievales centro y noreuropeos usaban la estrella de David. Si se busca información e imágenes sobre "Bierstern" (beer star) o "Brauerstern" (brewer's star), pronto aparece la verdadera forma de dicha estrella. La utilización del Magen David -el escudo de David, el hexagrama- como símbolo de pureza, proviene del volumen fundacional de la tradición cabalística, el Zohar, posiblemente escrito en algún punto del siglo XIII por un judío de Guadalajara, Moisés de León. El barrio judío de Praga ya utilizaba la estrella de David como emblema desde al menos el 1500 d.C., pero se han encontrado barriles de cerveza e ilustraciones de los mismos anteriores a esa fecha que llevan la marca.” Wayne B. Chandler nos dice: “Fue el anciano Egipto donde la estrella de seis picos residió en su completo esplendor. Proclamada como la Estrella de la Creación por los egipcios, esta representaba la unión entre el macho y la hembra energía en naturaleza y en todos los planos de la existencia; pero es también proclamada [en Egipto] como el símbolo la Ley Hermética de la Correspondencia. El triangulo apuntando hacia arriba indica el macrocosmos y el triangulo apuntado hacia abajo indica el microcosmos; dos formas idénticas enclavadas pero independientes, cada parte representando un todo” La estrella de 6 puntas mucho antes de ser conocida como estrella del rey David era llamada la estrella de los magos y como hemos podido comprobar los judíos se llevaron este conocimiento tras su paso por Egipto. No se crean que se colgaba una estrella de 6 puntas por colgar encima de un barril para que fermentase, esto entronca con dioses como Baco o Dioniso y evidentemente estaríamos hablando de posesiones por entidades…lo que la ciencia en la actualidad simplemente cataloga de daños etílicos en el cerebelo. Pero no es del gusto etílico de lo que quiero hablarles si no de como durante el encierro del Covid practicamos obedientemente y sin saberlo ese festival babilónico del Akitu o Akitum. Ese año de cambios trascendentales, el 2020, en la gran mutación, en la toma del poder por supuestamente otra facción el celebrar este ritual que como les dije antes significa paso o salto. Y es que verdaderamente vamos a pasar de la sociedad 3.0 a la 4.0. Del capitalismo tradicional al nuevo capitalismo donde solo unos pocos serán verdaderamente productivos y el resto se mantendrán solo como meros consumidores resignados a comer las migajas que le sobre al resto. Como dice nuestro amigo Peter House: “En el calendario hebreo el 14 de Nisán comienza en la noche de luna llena después del equinoccio vernal que en el actual 2020 empezará en la tarde del 8 abril (la tercera superluna) y acabará en la tarde del jueves 16 de abril. Es una festividad judía que conmemora la liberación del pueblo hebreo de la esclavitud de Egipto y que también recibe el nombre de ‘Fiesta de la Primavera’, ya que marca el inicio de dicha estación. Las regulaciones bíblicas relativas a la primera vez que la festividad fuera observada, es decir en el momento del Éxodo de Egipto, incluyen instrucciones sobre cómo la comida deberá consumirse: "ceñidos vuestros lomos, vuestro calzado en vuestros pies, y vuestro bastón en vuestra mano; y lo comeréis apresuradamente. Es la Pascua del señor” (Exodo 12:11).” Esto suena un poco a los cordones que ciñen las túnicas de los cofrades de Semana Santa y recordemos que el color de la Pascua, el color liturgico es el morado. Y el morado es la unión del color rojo, hombre y del color azul o mujer. Estamos ante un hexagrama. “En alquimia, los dos triángulos representan la reconciliación de los opuestos de fuego y agua. La Kabbalah no judía (también llamada Kabbalah cristiana o hermética) interpreta que el hexagrama significa la unión divina de la energía masculina y femenina, donde el macho está representado por el triángulo superior (denominado la "cuchilla") y la hembra por la inferior uno (referido como el "cáliz"). “ ¿Y por qué nos hicieron salir a aplaudir a las 8 y no a otra hora? El 8 es muy importante para la adoración de Ishtar la diosa babilónica del amor y la belleza, de la vida, de la fertilidad o sea de la primavera. Se la asocia al planeta Venus, estrella de la mañana y del anochecer. Su símbolo es una estrella de ocho puntas. En su honor, los astrónomos han llamado Ishtar Terra a un continente de Venus. Ištar no es una diosa del matrimonio, ni es una diosa madre. El matrimonio sagrado o la sacra hierogamia, que se representaba todos los años en el templo babilónico, no tiene un implicación moral ni es modelo de matrimonios terrestres, es un rito de fertilidad altamente estilizado con tonos litúrgicos. …………………………………………… ¿Se acuerdan que este ultimo eclipse pasó por siete ciudades llamadas Ninive en Estados Unidos? Nínive fue la capital y ciudad más grande del Imperio neoasirio, llegó a ser la más grande del mundo durante aproximadamente cincuenta años hasta el año 612 a. C. Allí se celebraba el Akitu babilónico, uno de los primeros rituales del tiempo conocidos. El festival babilónico tradicionalmente comenzó el 4 de Nisannu. Todas las personas en la ciudad la celebrarían, incluyendo el awilu (clase alta), muskena (clase media), wardu (clase baja), el sumo sacerdote y el rey. Primero al tercer día El sacerdote de Ésagila(La casa de Marduk) recitaba oraciones tristes con los otros sacerdotes y la gente respondía con oraciones igualmente tristes que expresaban el temor de la humanidad a lo desconocido. Este miedo a lo desconocido explica por qué el sumo sacerdote se dirigía a la Ésagila todos los días pidiendo el perdón de Marduk, rogándole que protegiera a Babilonia, su ciudad santa, y pidiéndole que le favoreciera. Esta oración se llamó "El secreto de Ésagila". Dice lo siguiente: "Señor sin igual en tu ira, Señor, rey misericordioso, señor de las tierras, que hizo la salvación de los grandes dioses, Señor, que derribó a los fuertes con su mirada, Señor de reyes, luz de los hombres, que repartes destinos, oh Señor, Babilonia es tu asiento, Borsippa tu corona Los anchos cielos son tu cuerpo ... Dentro de tus brazos tomas a los fuertes ... Con tu mirada les concedes gracia, haz que vean la luz para que proclamen tu poder. Señor de las tierras, luz de los Igigi, que anuncia las bendiciones; ¿Quién no proclamaría tu, sí, tu poder? ¿No hablarías de tu majestad, alabarás tu dominio? Señor de las tierras, que vive en Eudul, que toma a los caídos de la mano; Ten piedad de tu ciudad, Babilonia. Vuelve tu rostro hacia Esagila, tu templo. ¡Da libertad a los que habitan en Babilonia, tus barrios! Al tercer día, artesanos especiales crearían dos títeres hechos de madera, oro y piedras preciosas y los vestirían de rojo. Estas marionetas se dejaron de lado y se utilizarían en el sexto día. Cuarto día Se seguirían los mismos rituales que en los tres días anteriores. Antes del amanecer, los sacerdotes buscaron el grupo sagrado de estrellas IKU ( "Campo" ). Durante el día se recitaría la Epopeya de la Creación, Enuma Elish . El Enuma Elish es probablemente la historia más antigua sobre el nacimiento de los dioses y la creación del universo y los seres humanos. Luego explica cómo todos los dioses se unieron en el dios Marduk, después de su victoria sobre Tiamat. La recitación de esta epopeya se consideró el comienzo de los preparativos para la sumisión del Rey de Babilonia ante Marduk en el quinto día de Akitu. Durante la noche se realizó un drama que elogió a Marduk también. Quinto día La sumisión del rey de Babilonia ante Marduk. El rey entraría a la Esagila acompañado por los sacerdotes, se acercarían todos juntos al altar donde el sumo sacerdote de la Esagila se hace pasar por Marduk, luego se acerca al rey, comienza a despojarlo de sus joyas, cetro e incluso su corona y luego abofetea fuerte mientras se arrodilla en el altar y comienza a orar pidiendo el perdón de Marduk y se somete a él diciendo: "No he pecado, oh Señor del universo, y no he descuidado tu poder celestial en absoluto" ... Entonces el sacerdote en el papel de Marduk dice: "No tengas miedo de lo que Marduk tiene que decir, porque él escuchará tus oraciones, extenderá tu poder y aumentará la grandeza de tu reinado". La eliminación de todas las posesiones mundanas es un símbolo de la sumisión que el rey le da a Marduk. Después de esto, el rey se levantaría y el sacerdote le devolvería sus joyas, su cetro y su corona y luego lo abofetearía con la esperanza de que el rey derramara lágrimas, porque eso expresaría más la sumisión a Marduk y el respeto a su poder. Cuando el sacerdote devuelve la corona al rey, eso significa que Marduk renovó su poder, por lo que abril se consideraría no solo el renacimiento de la naturaleza y la vida, sino también del Estado. Por lo tanto, estas ceremonias harían que las personalidades más grandes y temidas de la época se sometieran al dios más grande y vivieran un momento de humildad con toda la población, compartiendo oraciones para demostrar su fe ante el poder de Dios. Tras su presencia en su hogar terrenal, Babilonia, y renovando el poder de su rey, el dios Marduk se queda en el Etemenanki (un zigurat o torre compuesta de siete pisos, conocida en elTorá como la Torre de Babilonia) donde estaba la vivienda de Marduk o en el templo de Esagila (en la Torá Dios moraría en una "montaña" Salmos 74: 2). Durante este día, según la tradición de Akitu, Marduk entraría en su vivienda y se sorprendería de los dioses malvados que lucharían contra él, luego Tiamat, el monstruo del caos y la diosa del océano, lo tomará prisionero y esperará la llegada de su hijo. Dios Nabu quien lo salvaría de "Nada" y le devolvería la gloria. Aqui debemos acordarnos que todo el melón del rey emérito se abrió para esas fechas, apareciendo las fundaciones Zagatka y Lucum bajo sospecha en Suiza relacionadas con el Rey emérito. Sexto día Antes de que llegaran los dioses, el día estaría lleno de conmoción. Las marionetas que se hicieron el tercer día se quemarían y también se realizarían simulacros de batalla. Esta conmoción significaba que sin Marduk, la ciudad estaría en constante caos. La llegada de Dios Nabu en botes acompañados por sus asistentes de valientes dioses que vienen de Nippur , Uruk , Kishy Eridu (ciudades de la antigua Babilonia). Los dioses que acompañaban a Nabu estarían representados por estatuas que se montarían en botes hechos especialmente para la ocasión. Aquí, la gran cantidad de personas comenzaría a caminar detrás de su rey hacia la Esagila, donde Marduk es prisionero, cantando lo siguiente: "Aquí está el que viene de lejos para restaurar la gloria de nuestro padre encarcelado". Séptimo día Al tercer día de su encarcelamiento, Nabu libera a Marduk. Los dioses malvados habían cerrado una gran puerta detrás de él cuando entró en su vivienda. Marduk estaría peleando hasta la llegada de Nabu, cuando irrumpiría en la gran puerta y una batalla continuaría entre los dos grupos, hasta que Nabu salga victorioso y libere a Marduk. Octavo día Cuando Marduk es liberado, las estatuas de los dioses se reúnen en el Salón de los Destinos "Ubshu-Ukkina", para deliberar sobre su destino, allí se decide unir todas las fuerzas de los dioses y otorgarlas a Marduk. Aquí, el rey implora a todos los dioses que apoyen y honren a Marduk, y esta tradición era una indicación de que Marduk recibió la sumisión de todos los dioses y era único en su posición. Noveno día La procesión de la victoria a la "Casa de Akitu", donde se celebra la victoria de Marduk al comienzo de la Creación sobre el dragón Tiamat (diosa de las aguas inferiores). La Casa de Akitu, que los asirios de Nínive llamaron "Bet Ekribi" ("Casa de Oraciones" en idioma asirio antiguo), estaba a unos 200 metros de las murallas de la ciudad, donde había árboles maravillosos decorados y regados cuidadosamente por respeto al dios quien ha considerado el que le otorga vida a la naturaleza. La procesión de la victoria fue la forma en que la población expresó su alegría por la renovación del poder de Marduk (Ashur) y la destrucción de las fuerzas del mal que casi controlaban la vida al principio. Décimo día Al llegar a "Bet Akitu", el dios Marduk comienza a celebrar con los dioses del mundo superior e inferior (las estatuas de los dioses estaban dispuestas alrededor de una mesa enorme, como en una fiesta), luego Marduk regresa a la ciudad por la noche para celebrar su matrimonio con la diosa "Ishtar", donde la tierra y el cielo están unidos, y como los dioses se unen, así se organiza esta unión en la tierra. Así, el rey personifica esta unión jugando el papel de casarse con la más alta sacerdotisa de la Esagila donde ambos se sentarían en el trono ante la población y recitarían poemas especiales para la ocasión. Este amor dará vida en primavera. Undécimo día Los dioses regresan acompañados por su Lord Marduk para encontrarse nuevamente en el Salón de los Destinos "Upshu Ukkina", donde se encontraron por primera vez el octavo día, esta vez decidirán el destino de la gente de Marduk. En la antigua filosofía asiria, la creación en general se consideraba como un pacto entre el cielo y la tierra siempre que un humano sirviera a los dioses hasta su muerte, por lo tanto, la felicidad de los dioses no está completa, excepto si los humanos también son felices, por lo tanto, el destino de un humano ser dado felicidad con la condición de que sirva a los dioses. Entonces Marduk y los dioses renuevan su alianza con Babilonia, prometiéndole a la ciudad otro ciclo de estaciones. Después de que se decide el destino de la humanidad, Marduk regresa a los cielos. Duodécimo día El último día de Akitu. Los dioses regresan al templo de Marduk (las estatuas se devuelven al templo) y la vida diaria se reanuda en Babilonia, Nínive y el resto de las ciudades asirias. La gente comienza a arar y prepararse para otro ciclo de estaciones. ………………………………………………………………………………………. ………………………………………………………………………………………. Voy a utilizar algunos tuits miss y de el puntal de Dios comentando las jugadas que hacen los políticos en España para que vean como se las gastan con el tema del control del tiempo. Desde aquel "atropellamiento masivo de las Ramblas" ejecutado por el recurrente yihadismo donde se aceleraron los acontecimientos en el "procés" catalán. A los 9 meses justos y a las 11 y 33 horas se ritualizó el nombramiento del 131 president. Justo el 17/5/18 se cumplían los 9 meses del atentado de las Ramblas de Barcelona del 17/8/17. Como si de un embarazo se tratara se "transmutó" un 'rey cobarde' en TORRA a las 11:33 horas. Ritual para el 131 president de la Generalitat en la sala de la VIRGEN NEGRA. El 132 president, Pere Aragonés, fue investido 1100 días (1++1+0+0=11) después de la toma de posesión del 131. ¿parece un engranaje numérico, no creen? Tan sólo 15 días después, como si de una Luna Nueva se pasase a su fase plena, Pedro, el Indestructible, tomaba el cielo del Gobierno de España por asalto (casualidades de la vida) a las 11 y 33 horas del 1 de Junio del 2018. ¿Y Pedro, el Indestructible, utilizará la numerología para "hacer magia" en unas elecciones que tenía perdidas a ojos del profano? En el 5º aniversario de su "asalto al Congreso", con la connivencia de Mariano Rajoy, convoca elecciones generales a 55 días vista. Conforme al punto 177.4 del reglamento del Congreso de los Diputados hubo que iniciar la votación si o si a las 11 de la mañana. Bueno a las 11 y 1 minuto que es más resultón. ¿Se acuerdan de la turra que dieron con aplicar el articulo 155 de la Constitución? ¿Y en qué puesto voto el Sr Rajoy? Pues en el ¡¡¡155!!! ¿Cuál si no? ¿Hay una especie de hermandad que tiene una especial fijación con un juramento en las "sagradas escrituras" que mencionen ese 133? Hace unos años señalamos esa pista y todos esos caminos conducen a esos templos fraternales discretos. Leo textualmente lo que los propios masones dicen sobre el salmo 133 de la Biblia: “Uno de los temas más llamativos para quien ingresa a una logia masónica por primera vez, es sin duda la lectura del salmo 133 antes del inicio de los trabajos masónicos. Pero ¿es así en todos los rituales del mundo? ¿existen otros pasajes bíblicos que se lean en el primer grado? ¿qué significa el salmo 133 en la masonería? Un dato interesante que vale la pena señalar respecto del salmo 133 es que forma parte del último libro de salmos. Además, en la tradición judía, es uno de los 73 salmos a los que se les atribuye como autor al Rey David, padre de Salomón, rey edificador del primer templo. Dentro de la tradición masónica, el salmo 133 ha sido identificado como el salmo que más se acerca a los ideales de la institución.” ¿Por qué el "brujo" Puigdemont lanza un órdago de todo o nada a 33 días de las elecciones? El 12 de Mayo en año bisiesto es el día 133 en curso. Él mismo fue el 130 president y aspira a ser el 133¿Será un patrón "numerológico" qué enlace con otros sucesos ceremoniales anteriores? ………………………………………………………………………………………. simbologia, un texto de PeterHouse Pro Cuando escribí sobre la relación entre la cuaresma, la pascua judía y el Akitu no pensé que se hablaría del tema y por no alargar mucho el escrito no profundicé mucho en el paralelismo de lo que vivimos hoy en España y los rituales mesopotámicos. El conocimiento de estos rituales ha sido transmitido entre la élite y son la base de la ingeniería social que sufrimos hoy. Cada cultura o civilización que los ha ido adoptando le ha introducido o eliminado elementos a conveniencia y así sucesivamente hasta nuestros días. La parte superficial de estos rituales mágicos ha cambiado pero no la esencia y su utilidad. En la naturaleza existen ciclos, así como a la psique humana le cuesta identificar patrones exponenciales y evidentemente recrearlos con el pensamiento también le cuesta identificar esos ciclos naturales. Hoy en día todo el mundo conoce el ciclo anual que llamamos estaciones del año, pero no siempre fue así, hubo un tiempo, cuando este y otros ciclos empezaban a ser identificados por las mentes más inquietas en que el conocimiento en torno a estos cálculos estaba velado para el común de los mortales. Al tiempo que la élite ha profundizado en el conocimiento de todo tipo de ciclos los ha sabido identificar en la naturaleza cada vez más y día a día ha ido sacando provecho de su control. Esto se puede observar en todo tipo de campos, desde algo tan físico y cuantificable como la mecánica de movimiento armónico hasta algo tan ancestral como la agricultura. Así como el ingeniero sabe cómo aprovechar el movimiento armónico para emplear la menor energía posible (el péndulo es símbolo de esto), el agricultor sabe cómo sacar el máximo provecho de su cosecha y estos conocimientos son el cúmulo de miles de años de conocimiento transmitido de generación en generación. Estos conocimientos son guardados celosamente durante mucho tiempo y conforme la élite es capaz de alcanzar niveles nuevos de sabiduría el pueblo llano va teniendo, poco a poco, acceso a los conocimientos ya obsoletos para el Poder, como si de algo novedoso se tratara. Esto le sirve para tener una sociedad lo suficientemente productiva pero lo suficientemente limitada. Esto, que es fácil de identificar en la agricultura se puede aplicar a absolutamente a todo lo que tiene que ver con el conocimiento, cualquier rama de cualquier ciencia. El Poder aplica a la gran la masa de seres humanos que controla el mismo tratamiento que da a las diferentes masas que ha aprendido a gestionar, por ejemplo la economía. Es decir, a la tierra, a la gente y al dinero se los somete a ciclos que los hacen producir más y mejor, podando o poniendo en barbecho según dicte el conocimiento de los ciclos naturales. La expresión ‘año sabático’, en hebreo ‘Shmitá’ proviene del séptimo año del ciclo agrícola de siete años ordenado por la Torá para la Tierra de Israel, observado aún en el judaísmo actual. Durante la shmitá la ley judía prohíbe toda actividad agrícola, incluyendo arar, plantar, podar y cosechar. Una variedad de leyes también se aplican a la venta, consumo y disposición de productos y todas las deudas, excepto las de los extranjeros, que debían ser remitidas. El Capítulo 25 del Libro de Levítico promete abundantes cosechas a quienes observan la shmitá, esto es algo que se aprecia en cómo la élite maneja la economía; el 29 de septiembre de 2008 el índice Dow Jones Industrial caía 777,7 (77,68) puntos, un 7%, la mayor de su historia en puntos, la segunda mayor caída anterior fue el 1 de septiembre de 2001, un 7,13%; ambas caídas ocurrieron un 29 de Elul, fecha que marca el fin del Shmita y día en que en el judaísmo se hace una ceremonia de “substitución” para celebrar el fin de las deudas durante el Rosh Hashaná. Es una perfecta ingeniería social porque, como el barbecho debe hacerse para darle a la tierra un ciclo sostenible, introducir la shmitá en una sociedad agrícola genera una sociedad de excedentes, se promueve el ahorro y la banca y se evita el sobre-endeudamiento, el año de descanso agrícola le da al país cierto paro pero incrementa el comercio internacional, la población flotante de pobres se mantiene y la élite de esa sociedad probablemente terminará convirtiéndose en acreedora internacional. De hecho, solamente ha tenido que hacer cumplir las escrituras: Deuteronomio 15:1-6 “Al cabo de cada siete años harás remisión de deudas. Así se hará la remisión: todo acreedor hará remisión de lo que haya prestado a su prójimo; no lo exigirá de su prójimo ni de su hermano, porque se ha proclamado la remisión del Señor. De un extranjero lo puedes exigir, pero tu mano perdonará cualquier cosa tuya que tu hermano tenga. Sin embargo, no habrá menesteroso entre ustedes, ya que el Señor de cierto te bendecirá en la tierra que el Señor tu Dios te da por heredad para poseerla, si solo escuchas fielmente la voz del Señor tu Dios, para guardar cuidadosamente todo este mandamiento que te ordeno hoy. Pues el Señor tu Dios te bendecirá como te ha prometido, y tú prestarás a muchas naciones, pero tú no tomarás prestado; y tendrás dominio sobre muchas naciones, pero ellas no tendrán dominio sobre ti.” Hoy en día, tras la destrucción de las entre comillas “columnas gemelas” y la construcción del One World Trade Center, el concepto de Israel se ha expandido a todo el mundo globalizado y se le aplica a la sociedad mundial esta misma magia, la maldición del 9 de Av que hemos conocido de manos de Aingeru García es una de estas podas que se le hace a la masa de gente como control eugenésico. No hay que esperar el nacimiento de ninguna vaca roja ni la construcción de un tercer templo, ése templo es el planeta entero y ahora que la comunidad es global esa magia se aplica de muchas formas pero son identificables porque la élite, por un motivo u otro (algo que deberá abordarse) está sujeta a los ritos y estos, al estar relacionados con los astros y por lo tanto con los números, pueden ser descubiertos. «El tiempo saca a la luz todo lo que está oculto y encubre y esconde lo que ahora brilla con el más grande esplendor.» Horacio. Siglo I antes de Cristo. El mal vende. Y vende bien. ………………………………………………………………………………………. Invitados: …. Dra Yane #JusticiaParaUTP @ayec98_2 Médico y Buscadora de la verdad. Con Dios siempre! No permito q me dividan c/izq -derecha, raza, religión ni nada de la Creación. https://youtu.be/TXEEZUYd4c0 …. UTP Ramón Valero @tecn_preocupado Un técnico Preocupado un FP2 IVOOX UTP http://cutt.ly/dzhhGrf BLOG http://cutt.ly/dzhh2LX Ayúdame desde mi Crowfunding aquí https://cutt.ly/W0DsPVq ………………………………………………………………………………………. Enlaces citados en el podcast: UTP33 La bomba nuclear que quiso fabricar Franco https://www.ivoox.com/utp33-la-bomba-nuclear-quiso-fabricar-franco-audios-mp3_rf_19786927_1.html Apofis (mitología) https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apofis_(mitolog%C3%ADa) Alex Proyas justifica por qué Disney, Marvel y Star Wars están matando el género fantástico y la gran pantalla https://www.ecartelera.com/noticias/entrevista-alex-proyas-el-cuervo-nocturna-2019-57316/ ‘Dioses de Egipto’: El director pide disculpas por la falta de diversidad racial en el reparto https://www.sensacine.com/noticias/cine/noticia-18535324/ ANUNNAKI: LA PELÍCULA QUE PUDO ALTERAR LA HISTORIA… ¿FUE REALMENTE PROHIBIDA? https://codigooculto.com/enigmas/anunnaki-la-pelicula-que-pudo-alterar-la-historia-fue-realmente-prohibida/ Anunnaki Trailer Oficial - Jon Gress - 2017 [La Película Prohibida] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buoG_nEZFnk 1ANUNNAKI, LA PELÍCULA QUE NUNCA SE ESTRENÓ, ¿POR QUÉ? https://exociencias.wordpress.com/2012/03/28/1anunnaki-la-pelicula-que-nunca-se-estreno-por-que/ VIDEOS ES CLAVE https://tecnicopreocupado.com/videos/videos-es-clave/ LA LEYENDA DE LAS ESTRELLAS ERRANTES Y LOS REYES DEL TIEMPO.(PARTE I) https://tecnicopreocupado.com/2023/06/24/la-leyenda-de-las-estrellas-errantes-y-los-reyes-del-tiempo-parte-i/ LOS REYES DEL TIEMPO https://tecnicopreocupado.com/2023/12/30/los-reyes-del-tiempo/ La NASA solo sabe sacar 33 tornillos de los 35 de la capsula OSIRIS-REX https://www.burbuja.info/inmobiliaria/threads/la-nasa-solo-sabe-sacar-33-tornillos-de-los-35-de-la-capsula-osiris-rex.2045303/ Porque se eligió el 4 de julio como dia de la Independencia en USA https://twitter.com/AmurakaHidden/status/1777084193656172663 USA como encarnación del antiguo Egipto https://twitter.com/AmurakaHidden/status/1776737930641387897 Sirio, la historia del Ojo en el Cielo https://vaventura.com/divulgacion/historia/sirio-la-historia-del-ojo-cielo DANIEL SANCHO. MUERTE Y RESURRECCIÓN DE OSIRIS EN TRES ACTOS https://tecnicopreocupado.com/2023/08/09/daniel-sancho-muerte-y-resurreccion-de-osiris-en-tres-actos/ DANIEL SANCHO Y LA RESURRECCIÓN TRAS LA PASCUA https://tecnicopreocupado.com/2024/03/29/daniel-sancho-y-la-resurreccion-tras-la-pascua/ UTP86 Coronavirus, Akituatraco a las 8 https://www.ivoox.com/utp86-coronavirus-akituatraco-a-8-audios-mp3_rf_49387968_1.html ¿Es la estrella cervecera de origen judío? http://www.beeretseq.com/is-the-brewing-star-of-jewish-origin/ Hexagrama: La Estrella Alquímica https://santuariodelalba.wordpress.com/2017/11/14/la-estrella-alquimica-de-6-picos-o-estrella-de-los-magos/ The Six Point Brewers Star http://www.brewingmuseum.org/articles/six-point-brewers-star La extraña estrella del Cinturón de Orión https://www.burbuja.info/inmobiliaria/threads/cuaderno-de-ocultismo.642262/ Akitu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akitu http://www.thefullwiki.org/Akitu Festival Akitu https://www.livius.org/articles/religion/akitu/ https://www.encyclopedia.com/environment/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/akitu El Antiguo Festival Akitu y la Humillación del Rey https://www.ancient-origins.es/noticias-general-historia-tradiciones-antiguas/el-antiguo-festival-akitu-la-humillaci%C3%B3n-rey-002363 Abofetear al rey en la mejilla en la antigua Babilonia https://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Slapping-the-king-on-the-cheek-in-ancient-Babylon-376438 El Rey renuncia a la herencia de su padre y le retira su asignación por sus supuestas cuentas en Suiza https://elpais.com/espana/2020-03-15/el-rey-renuncia-a-la-herencia-de-su-padre-y-le-retira-su-asignacion.html?ssm=TW_CM Zagatka y Lucum, las dos fundaciones bajo sospecha en Suiza relacionadas con el Rey emérito https://elpais.com/espana/2020-03-15/zagatka-y-lucum-las-dos-fundaciones-relacionadas-con-el-rey-emerito-bajo-sospecha-en-suiza.html Ordago del 133 presidente de Cataluña https://twitter.com/elpuntaldedios/status/1778004100853981318 Bienvenidos al muy masónico gobierno de España https://twitter.com/tecn_preocupado/status/1002586046629105664 El salmo 133 en la Masonería https://elblogdelmason.com/el-salmo-133-en-la-masoneria/ Episodio 5 de la 2a temporada del Ministerio del Tiempo (2016) que trata sobre la gripe Española la puerta por la que llega el virus es la ¡2020! https://twitter.com/tecn_preocupado/status/1298344935507267590 ………………………………………………………………………………………. Música utilizada en este podcast: Tema inicial Heros ……………………………………………………………….. Epílogo Diego Vasallo - Caemos como cae un ángel https://youtu.be/2Mj1aqLErHE?feature=shared

Sean bienvenidos a un nuevo directo desde Twitter, estamos ya en el UTP291 a solo 9 de celebrar nuestro programa 300. Como oirán en el breve flash previo al programa necesitamos que nos envíen audios de menos de un minuto para felicitarnos, criticarnos o simplemente comentar alguna cosa para que los publiquemos en el programa 300. Aunque no somos muchos sí podemos presumir de tener una audiencia bastante fiel en Buscadores de la Verdad y estaremos encantados de escucharles en ese programa especial. Hemos hablado de muchos temas diferentes durante la nueva etapa en solitario desde que abandoné Canal Zero. Podríamos decir que el primer programa con el sello de UTP podría ser el UTP33 La bomba nuclear que quiso fabricar Franco de julio del 2017. Desde entonces son 258 programas en estos casi siete años, o lo que es lo mismo, un programa cada 9 días. Casi uno a la semana. No ha resultado fácil compaginar la vida familiar y laboral para obtener el tiempo necesario de investigación, lectura y desarrollo de estos casi 260 programas. Y hemos hablado largo y tendido de múltiples temas que pensamos habrán sido de su interés. Hoy tocaremos un tema que creo que no hemos desarrollado nunca y es el de como las élites psicopatocraticas que están en el poder están ejecutando los mismos rituales que se realizaban por ejemplo en el antiguo Egipto. De vez en cuando llega a la opinión pública alguna pincelada como por ejemplo el lanzamiento de esos tres cohetes por parte de la NASA con el nombre de Apep. Apofis, o Apep, representaba en la mitología egipcia a las fuerzas maléficas que habitan el Duat y a las tinieblas. En la wikipedia podemos leer: “Es una serpiente gigantesca, inmortal y poderosa, cuya función consistía en interrumpir el recorrido nocturno de la barca solar conducida por Ra y defendida por Seth, para evitar que consiguiera alcanzar el nuevo día. Para ello empleaba varios métodos: atacaba la barca directamente o culebreaba para provocar bancos de arena donde el navío encallara. Todo ello tenía sólo una finalidad: romper la Maat, el «orden cósmico». Apofis representa el mal, con el que había que luchar para contenerlo; sin embargo, nunca sería aniquilada, solo era dañada o sometida, ya que de otro modo el ciclo solar no podría llevarse a cabo diariamente y el mundo perecería. Para los antiguos egipcios era necesario que existiese el concepto del mal para que el bien fuera posible. Los egipcios creían que, cuando el cielo se teñía de rojo, era a causa de las heridas provocadas a Apofis. También, interpretaron que los eclipses eran obra suya, en la lucha en la Duat.” La vimos en acción en la película del 2016 Dioses de Egipto donde nos describían como reales los mitos egipcios. Y es que cuando produjeron esa película allá por 2016 había otra superproducción de la misma temática que nunca vio la luz, Anunnaki de Jon Gress. Se rumoreo que dejaba demasiado claro como las élites siguen rindiendo culto a estas deidades antiguas. El director de Dioses de Egipto tiene una filmografía envidiable con películas como El cuervo, Dark City, Yo, robot o Señales del futuro y el mismo se ha quejado de que “la dictadura de lo poco original y lo políticamente correcto mató a sus Dioses de Egipto”. El director que es egipcio tuvo que pedir disculpas por la falta de diversidad racial en el reparto y el film fue tan duramente criticado que este magnífico director ya no ha vuelto a rodar. La película con un presupuesto de 140 millones de dólares fue duramente criticada y le costo muchos años llegar a recuperar dicha inversión. Parece que mostró más de lo que debía mostrar y por eso fue castigada. De la otra superproducción que se estaba realizando a la vez ya nunca se supo nada y ahora ni siquiera encontramos restos en internet salvo en páginas de conspiración. El director de Dioses de Egipto nos habla de uno de sus proyectos inacabados: “En una situación en particular estuve trabajando en un proyecto llamado 'Paradise Lost', y estuvimos en ella durante dos años. El estudio gastó 25 millones de dólares, pero lo cancelaron y dijeron: "no vamos a hacerla". Dijeron que era el presupuesto, pero no creo que fuera eso, era demasiado... Ya sabes cómo es el poema de John Milton, tienes a Lucifer transformándose en un santo... Fue considerado blasfemia cuando se escribió en el siglo XVII y todavía parece como algo que enfadaría bastante.” El cine siempre nos mostró el verdadero rostro del poder y los recovecos mas oscuros de éste, aunque muchas veces lo hiciese de una forma ininteligible para el común de los mortales. Esto lo vimos al analizar películas como Eyes wide Shut, El destino de Júpiter o Blade Runner, todas ellas diseccionadas en nuestros Videos Es Clave. Una y otra vez vemos como utilizan fechas clave o nombres mitológicos desde la ciencia más rancia como la NASA, dónde en una burla infinita nos contó que solo podia sacar 33 tornillos de los 35 de la cápsula OSIRIS-REX que envió recientemente a tomar muestras a un asteroide. Un Tuitero y escritor llamado Hidden Amuraka nos cuenta como Estados Unidos es “la última encarnación del Antiguo Egipto y los sistemas más antiguos se construyeron sobre el propio Egipto”. En Breve historia del futuro Jacques Attali nos habla de lo que el llama corazones del imperio y como se van desplazando por el mundo según van apareciendo innovaciones técnicas capitales como el timón de codaste, la máquina de vapor, el motor de explosión y por último la electricidad. Es curioso como el señor Attali no asigna ninguno de esos corazones del imperio en España, que fue un gran imperio durante varios siglos. Si leemos los artículos del puntal de Dios en mi blog y más concretamente el que va a publicar LA LEYENDA DE LAS ESTRELLAS ERRANTES Y LOS REYES DEL TIEMPO (PARTE III) veremos cómo España estaba en la pomada con los reyes imperiales Carlos V y Felipe II. Attali no nombra a los imperios clásicos babilónico, sumerio, egipcio, griego o romano y sin embargo si nos habla de Brujas, Venecia, Amberes, Génova, Amsterdam, Londres, Boston, Nueva York y por ultimo Los Angeles. También nos habla de la última transformación hacia una sociedad nómada que ya no tiene un punto definido en la Tierra desde donde ejercer su poder ya que los objetos nómadas le otorgan ese poder esté donde esté. El poder actual radica en los objetos que utilizan cosas aparentemente intangibles…por ejemplo estoy escribiendo esta entradilla con un ordenador Mac llamado aire. Yo, sin embargo estoy más de acuerdo con el tuitero Hidden Amurak que nos dice que “TODO queda claro cuando uno se da cuenta de que Egipto se convirtió en Grecia, y Grecia en Roma, Roma en Inglaterra e Inglaterra en los Estados Unidos”. No es ningún secreto que los Padres Fundadores Masónicos diseñaron y construyeron Estados Unidos herméticamente. Por ejemplo la ceremonia conocida como el Día de la Inauguración Presidencial ocurre cada cuatro años el 20 de enero (o 21 de enero si el 20 cae en domingo) en el edificio del Capitolio de EE. UU. en Washington D.C frente al obelisco. Tenemos una hierogamia simbólica en el balcón del Capitolio de los EE. UU., que simboliza el vientre siempre embarazado de Isis, frente al Monumento a Washington, el falo erecto de Osiris, con una vesica piscis cual vientre de Isis fertilizado a sus pies. “Un nuevo presidente masónico ha nacido”. Este mismo tuitero nos cuenta de donde proviene que la mayor festividad del último Imperio caiga justamente un dia 4 de julio. “Decir que la Estrella Sirio, la Estrella Ardiente de la Masonería, es importante para las Órdenes Herméticas sería quedarse corto. La Estrella del Perro es el foco central de la religión y las enseñanzas del Antiguo Egipto. Sirio es un sistema estelar triple, astronómicamente, la base de todo el sistema religioso egipcio y, posteriormente, dogón. Los Movimientos Celestes determinaron el Calendario. Su salida heliaca (y la inundación del Nilo) marcó el comienzo del Año Nuevo egipcio. Hasta 35 días antes y 35 días después de que nuestro sol esté en conjunción con la estrella Sirio, aprox. 4 de julio, queda oculto por el resplandor del sol. El 4 de julio es aprox. el Afelio Solar. El Afelio Solar es el punto de la órbita de la Tierra que está más alejado del Sol Y el Sol está en Conjunción con SIRIO, nuestro Sol Espiritual, la Estrella Ardiente de la Masonería. Los egipcios se negaron a enterrar a sus muertos durante los 70 días que Sirio estuvo oculto a la vista porque se creía que Sirio era la puerta al más allá, una puerta a la Duat y cuando Nuestro Sol Físico estaba en conjunción con nuestro Sol Espiritual (Sirio), se creía que era la puerta. estuvo cerrado durante este período anual de 70 días. Los egipcios creían que Sirio era el lugar al que irían las almas de los muertos después de abandonar la tierra, la Duat. Muchas culturas antiguas creían que había otras formas de vida en Sirio que harían contacto con la tierra para ofrecer conocimiento e inteligencia para hacer avanzar a la raza humana.” Es por esto que los Padres Fundadores decidieron vincular el Nacimiento y el Destino de los Estados Unidos a Sirio porque se pensó que esto traería gran prosperidad a la joven nación como lo hacia con Egipto en la antigüedad dado que la aparición de Sirio conocida como la Estrella de Isis o la Estrella del Nilo, marcaba con la inundación anual del Nilo la prosperidad de la que dependían los egipcios para la agricultura. Junto a la Luna y al Sol, en la francmasonería Sirio es el símbolo más importante. Relacionando a la Luna con Isis y al Sol con Osiris, los masones creen que de las dos fuentes de conocimiento (el bien y el mal, el blanco y el negro, lo femenino y lo masculino) nace el hombre perfecto: Horus, que encuentra su representación con la estrella Sirio. Para los masones Sirio, el Ojo en el Cielo, se relaciona directamente con la liberación personal, a través de la adquisición de conocimiento y de alcanzar la verdad absoluta. Verdad que ocultan tras un velo a los profanos. Vemos una clarísima referencia a las dotes liberadoras de Sirio en la película El Show de Truman cuando este se ve sorprendido por algo que cae del cielo, un foco con una pegatina en la que se puede leer literalmente: «Sirius (Canis Major)». El puntal de Dios en sus tres artículos bajo el apelativo de “los reyes del tiempo” nos viene a contar “la conexión entre el mundo material y el inframundo, el conocido mundo de los vivos con el desconocido más allá de después de la muerte y que recrean en esas historias, del que estamos convencidos que es fundamental para la conducción de voluntades.” Yo también he querido plasmar esa misma conexión en lo que serán tres artículo sobre Daniel Sancho. En el primero titulado DANIEL SANCHO. MUERTE Y RESURRECCIÓN DE OSIRIS EN TRES ACTOS ya adelantaba que serian tres, como son tres las triadas de dioses en todas las culturas del planeta. Los 14 pedazos en que es cortado Osiris han sido vueltos a utilizar en este macabro asesinato. En el segundo, DANIEL SANCHO Y LA RESURRECCIÓN TRAS LA PASCUA, les mostraba las conexiones de la iglesia católica con tradiciones mucho más antiguas como esa hierogamia del Cristo de Mena que nos recuerda a la Inauguración Presidencial con obelisco y vesica piscis del Capitolio norteamericano. También les comente la enorme casualidad que el caso de Daniel Sancho “reviva” justamente tras el eclipse del 8 de abril que para mas casualidad pasara por 7 ciudades llamadas Ninive, el nombre de una antigua ciudad babilónica. En todas las culturas se siguen realizando rituales a estas divinidades del cielo que no son otra cosa que llamativos fenómenos atmosféricos como el eclipse que tuvo lugar este lunes 8 de abril o las danzas erráticas de los planetas. Hoy vamos a hablar de ese manejo del tiempo y sus posibles mecanismos que a la larga les permite a los psicopatas que nos mal gobiernan mantenernos en esta jaula con barrotes de oro. Decía el puntal de Dios: “Los esclavos debemos sentir el aroma de la libertad como si fuera de un uso exótico, «que esté ahí», que creamos poseerla. Tenemos la sensación de sentirla con nosotros. Algunos incluso se atreven a arengar que nos pertenece «por derecho divino» (es ironía, no se espanten). Pero no. La imaginamos cercana y tangible, casi dentro de nosotros, pero tan sólo es una fragancia que nos dejan percibir de manera provisional, llena de elementos que son volátiles. Desaparece todos los días para que volvamos a sentir su perfume al día próximo, al rato después, o a la mañana de la siguiente jornada. Y esa es justo la sensación con la que nos mantienen los señores que mueven nuestros hilos, los llamaremos «titiriteros«. Creer que lo eres, «libre«. Decía el escritor, y anterior esclavo afro-americano, Frederick Douglass, que para mantener contento al esclavo era necesario que no pensara. Que debían de oscurecer su visión moral y mental. Aniquilar su poder de razonar. Los amos de los «animalitos» procuran saber y controlar todo lo que oyen, ven y piensan sus criaturas. En nuestros tiempos esto les resulta muy fácil, nosotros mismos facilitamos esa información, algunos incluso con gusto. El patético «yo no tengo nada que esconder». “ ………………………………………………………………………………………. ¿Alguien me explica por qué en el episodio 5 de la 2a temporada del Ministerio del Tiempo (2016) que trata sobre la gripe Española la puerta por la que llega el virus es la ¡2020!? ¿Casualidad o causalidad? La epidemia empieza en el Ministerio el 25 de febrero del 2016. Y la del covid empezó también oficialmente en España el 25 de febrero del 2020. ¿Casualidad o causalidad? Grabado en 2015, emitido en 2016, serie el Ministerio del Tiempo 2a temporada 5 episodio, gripe Española y ¿cuál es el único número de puerta qué aparece en todo el episodio? ¡Bingo! La 2020. ………………………………………………………………………………………. En marzo de 2020 antes incluso de que todos se volvieran locos con el COVID nosotros realizamos un podcast titulado “UTP86 Coronavirus, Akituatraco a las 8” donde les contábamos como ese ritual de salir al balcón a las 8 no fue para nada casual. Alli les contábamos como de esa manera estabamos celebrando la fiesta de la primavera que muchos pueblos siguen celebrando con pequeñas variaciones pero sin apartarse mucho de la creación original que es el llamado festival babilónico de Akitu o Akitum. Este festival babilónico tradicionalmente comenzaba el 4 de Nisannu, fíjense que el primer mes del calendario judio es el mes llamado Nisán. En dicho mes se celebra la Pésaj (en hebreo es Pascua. Y Pascua significa básicamente "paso" o “salto". Es una festividad judía que conmemora la liberación del pueblo hebreo de la esclavitud de Egipto. Este año la Pésaj o pascua judía comenzará al atardecer del 22 de abril del 2024 y culminará al anochecer del 30 de abril del 2024. Curiosamente el festival de la primavera babilonico se llamaba Akitu o traduciéndolo al castellano como el corte de cebada…como ven la cebada es muy importante…por cierto, la cerveza siempre fue un invento hebreo por si no lo sabían. “Para el almacenaje de alcohol durante la Edad Media no era utilizada una estrella roja, sino que los cerveceros bajomedievales centro y noreuropeos usaban la estrella de David. Si se busca información e imágenes sobre "Bierstern" (beer star) o "Brauerstern" (brewer's star), pronto aparece la verdadera forma de dicha estrella. La utilización del Magen David -el escudo de David, el hexagrama- como símbolo de pureza, proviene del volumen fundacional de la tradición cabalística, el Zohar, posiblemente escrito en algún punto del siglo XIII por un judío de Guadalajara, Moisés de León. El barrio judío de Praga ya utilizaba la estrella de David como emblema desde al menos el 1500 d.C., pero se han encontrado barriles de cerveza e ilustraciones de los mismos anteriores a esa fecha que llevan la marca.” Wayne B. Chandler nos dice: “Fue el anciano Egipto donde la estrella de seis picos residió en su completo esplendor. Proclamada como la Estrella de la Creación por los egipcios, esta representaba la unión entre el macho y la hembra energía en naturaleza y en todos los planos de la existencia; pero es también proclamada [en Egipto] como el símbolo la Ley Hermética de la Correspondencia. El triangulo apuntando hacia arriba indica el macrocosmos y el triangulo apuntado hacia abajo indica el microcosmos; dos formas idénticas enclavadas pero independientes, cada parte representando un todo” La estrella de 6 puntas mucho antes de ser conocida como estrella del rey David era llamada la estrella de los magos y como hemos podido comprobar los judíos se llevaron este conocimiento tras su paso por Egipto. No se crean que se colgaba una estrella de 6 puntas por colgar encima de un barril para que fermentase, esto entronca con dioses como Baco o Dioniso y evidentemente estaríamos hablando de posesiones por entidades…lo que la ciencia en la actualidad simplemente cataloga de daños etílicos en el cerebelo. Pero no es del gusto etílico de lo que quiero hablarles si no de como durante el encierro del Covid practicamos obedientemente y sin saberlo ese festival babilónico del Akitu o Akitum. Ese año de cambios trascendentales, el 2020, en la gran mutación, en la toma del poder por supuestamente otra facción el celebrar este ritual que como les dije antes significa paso o salto. Y es que verdaderamente vamos a pasar de la sociedad 3.0 a la 4.0. Del capitalismo tradicional al nuevo capitalismo donde solo unos pocos serán verdaderamente productivos y el resto se mantendrán solo como meros consumidores resignados a comer las migajas que le sobre al resto. Como dice nuestro amigo Peter House: “En el calendario hebreo el 14 de Nisán comienza en la noche de luna llena después del equinoccio vernal que en el actual 2020 empezará en la tarde del 8 abril (la tercera superluna) y acabará en la tarde del jueves 16 de abril. Es una festividad judía que conmemora la liberación del pueblo hebreo de la esclavitud de Egipto y que también recibe el nombre de ‘Fiesta de la Primavera’, ya que marca el inicio de dicha estación. Las regulaciones bíblicas relativas a la primera vez que la festividad fuera observada, es decir en el momento del Éxodo de Egipto, incluyen instrucciones sobre cómo la comida deberá consumirse: "ceñidos vuestros lomos, vuestro calzado en vuestros pies, y vuestro bastón en vuestra mano; y lo comeréis apresuradamente. Es la Pascua del señor” (Exodo 12:11).” Esto suena un poco a los cordones que ciñen las túnicas de los cofrades de Semana Santa y recordemos que el color de la Pascua, el color liturgico es el morado. Y el morado es la unión del color rojo, hombre y del color azul o mujer. Estamos ante un hexagrama. “En alquimia, los dos triángulos representan la reconciliación de los opuestos de fuego y agua. La Kabbalah no judía (también llamada Kabbalah cristiana o hermética) interpreta que el hexagrama significa la unión divina de la energía masculina y femenina, donde el macho está representado por el triángulo superior (denominado la "cuchilla") y la hembra por la inferior uno (referido como el "cáliz"). “ ¿Y por qué nos hicieron salir a aplaudir a las 8 y no a otra hora? El 8 es muy importante para la adoración de Ishtar la diosa babilónica del amor y la belleza, de la vida, de la fertilidad o sea de la primavera. Se la asocia al planeta Venus, estrella de la mañana y del anochecer. Su símbolo es una estrella de ocho puntas. En su honor, los astrónomos han llamado Ishtar Terra a un continente de Venus. Ištar no es una diosa del matrimonio, ni es una diosa madre. El matrimonio sagrado o la sacra hierogamia, que se representaba todos los años en el templo babilónico, no tiene un implicación moral ni es modelo de matrimonios terrestres, es un rito de fertilidad altamente estilizado con tonos litúrgicos. …………………………………………… ¿Se acuerdan que este ultimo eclipse pasó por siete ciudades llamadas Ninive en Estados Unidos? Nínive fue la capital y ciudad más grande del Imperio neoasirio, llegó a ser la más grande del mundo durante aproximadamente cincuenta años hasta el año 612 a. C. Allí se celebraba el Akitu babilónico, uno de los primeros rituales del tiempo conocidos. El festival babilónico tradicionalmente comenzó el 4 de Nisannu. Todas las personas en la ciudad la celebrarían, incluyendo el awilu (clase alta), muskena (clase media), wardu (clase baja), el sumo sacerdote y el rey. Primero al tercer día El sacerdote de Ésagila(La casa de Marduk) recitaba oraciones tristes con los otros sacerdotes y la gente respondía con oraciones igualmente tristes que expresaban el temor de la humanidad a lo desconocido. Este miedo a lo desconocido explica por qué el sumo sacerdote se dirigía a la Ésagila todos los días pidiendo el perdón de Marduk, rogándole que protegiera a Babilonia, su ciudad santa, y pidiéndole que le favoreciera. Esta oración se llamó "El secreto de Ésagila". Dice lo siguiente: "Señor sin igual en tu ira, Señor, rey misericordioso, señor de las tierras, que hizo la salvación de los grandes dioses, Señor, que derribó a los fuertes con su mirada, Señor de reyes, luz de los hombres, que repartes destinos, oh Señor, Babilonia es tu asiento, Borsippa tu corona Los anchos cielos son tu cuerpo ... Dentro de tus brazos tomas a los fuertes ... Con tu mirada les concedes gracia, haz que vean la luz para que proclamen tu poder. Señor de las tierras, luz de los Igigi, que anuncia las bendiciones; ¿Quién no proclamaría tu, sí, tu poder? ¿No hablarías de tu majestad, alabarás tu dominio? Señor de las tierras, que vive en Eudul, que toma a los caídos de la mano; Ten piedad de tu ciudad, Babilonia. Vuelve tu rostro hacia Esagila, tu templo. ¡Da libertad a los que habitan en Babilonia, tus barrios! Al tercer día, artesanos especiales crearían dos títeres hechos de madera, oro y piedras preciosas y los vestirían de rojo. Estas marionetas se dejaron de lado y se utilizarían en el sexto día. Cuarto día Se seguirían los mismos rituales que en los tres días anteriores. Antes del amanecer, los sacerdotes buscaron el grupo sagrado de estrellas IKU ( "Campo" ). Durante el día se recitaría la Epopeya de la Creación, Enuma Elish . El Enuma Elish es probablemente la historia más antigua sobre el nacimiento de los dioses y la creación del universo y los seres humanos. Luego explica cómo todos los dioses se unieron en el dios Marduk, después de su victoria sobre Tiamat. La recitación de esta epopeya se consideró el comienzo de los preparativos para la sumisión del Rey de Babilonia ante Marduk en el quinto día de Akitu. Durante la noche se realizó un drama que elogió a Marduk también. Quinto día La sumisión del rey de Babilonia ante Marduk. El rey entraría a la Esagila acompañado por los sacerdotes, se acercarían todos juntos al altar donde el sumo sacerdote de la Esagila se hace pasar por Marduk, luego se acerca al rey, comienza a despojarlo de sus joyas, cetro e incluso su corona y luego abofetea fuerte mientras se arrodilla en el altar y comienza a orar pidiendo el perdón de Marduk y se somete a él diciendo: "No he pecado, oh Señor del universo, y no he descuidado tu poder celestial en absoluto" ... Entonces el sacerdote en el papel de Marduk dice: "No tengas miedo de lo que Marduk tiene que decir, porque él escuchará tus oraciones, extenderá tu poder y aumentará la grandeza de tu reinado". La eliminación de todas las posesiones mundanas es un símbolo de la sumisión que el rey le da a Marduk. Después de esto, el rey se levantaría y el sacerdote le devolvería sus joyas, su cetro y su corona y luego lo abofetearía con la esperanza de que el rey derramara lágrimas, porque eso expresaría más la sumisión a Marduk y el respeto a su poder. Cuando el sacerdote devuelve la corona al rey, eso significa que Marduk renovó su poder, por lo que abril se consideraría no solo el renacimiento de la naturaleza y la vida, sino también del Estado. Por lo tanto, estas ceremonias harían que las personalidades más grandes y temidas de la época se sometieran al dios más grande y vivieran un momento de humildad con toda la población, compartiendo oraciones para demostrar su fe ante el poder de Dios. Tras su presencia en su hogar terrenal, Babilonia, y renovando el poder de su rey, el dios Marduk se queda en el Etemenanki (un zigurat o torre compuesta de siete pisos, conocida en elTorá como la Torre de Babilonia) donde estaba la vivienda de Marduk o en el templo de Esagila (en la Torá Dios moraría en una "montaña" Salmos 74: 2). Durante este día, según la tradición de Akitu, Marduk entraría en su vivienda y se sorprendería de los dioses malvados que lucharían contra él, luego Tiamat, el monstruo del caos y la diosa del océano, lo tomará prisionero y esperará la llegada de su hijo. Dios Nabu quien lo salvaría de "Nada" y le devolvería la gloria. Aqui debemos acordarnos que todo el melón del rey emérito se abrió para esas fechas, apareciendo las fundaciones Zagatka y Lucum bajo sospecha en Suiza relacionadas con el Rey emérito. Sexto día Antes de que llegaran los dioses, el día estaría lleno de conmoción. Las marionetas que se hicieron el tercer día se quemarían y también se realizarían simulacros de batalla. Esta conmoción significaba que sin Marduk, la ciudad estaría en constante caos. La llegada de Dios Nabu en botes acompañados por sus asistentes de valientes dioses que vienen de Nippur , Uruk , Kishy Eridu (ciudades de la antigua Babilonia). Los dioses que acompañaban a Nabu estarían representados por estatuas que se montarían en botes hechos especialmente para la ocasión. Aquí, la gran cantidad de personas comenzaría a caminar detrás de su rey hacia la Esagila, donde Marduk es prisionero, cantando lo siguiente: "Aquí está el que viene de lejos para restaurar la gloria de nuestro padre encarcelado". Séptimo día Al tercer día de su encarcelamiento, Nabu libera a Marduk. Los dioses malvados habían cerrado una gran puerta detrás de él cuando entró en su vivienda. Marduk estaría peleando hasta la llegada de Nabu, cuando irrumpiría en la gran puerta y una batalla continuaría entre los dos grupos, hasta que Nabu salga victorioso y libere a Marduk. Octavo día Cuando Marduk es liberado, las estatuas de los dioses se reúnen en el Salón de los Destinos "Ubshu-Ukkina", para deliberar sobre su destino, allí se decide unir todas las fuerzas de los dioses y otorgarlas a Marduk. Aquí, el rey implora a todos los dioses que apoyen y honren a Marduk, y esta tradición era una indicación de que Marduk recibió la sumisión de todos los dioses y era único en su posición. Noveno día La procesión de la victoria a la "Casa de Akitu", donde se celebra la victoria de Marduk al comienzo de la Creación sobre el dragón Tiamat (diosa de las aguas inferiores). La Casa de Akitu, que los asirios de Nínive llamaron "Bet Ekribi" ("Casa de Oraciones" en idioma asirio antiguo), estaba a unos 200 metros de las murallas de la ciudad, donde había árboles maravillosos decorados y regados cuidadosamente por respeto al dios quien ha considerado el que le otorga vida a la naturaleza. La procesión de la victoria fue la forma en que la población expresó su alegría por la renovación del poder de Marduk (Ashur) y la destrucción de las fuerzas del mal que casi controlaban la vida al principio. Décimo día Al llegar a "Bet Akitu", el dios Marduk comienza a celebrar con los dioses del mundo superior e inferior (las estatuas de los dioses estaban dispuestas alrededor de una mesa enorme, como en una fiesta), luego Marduk regresa a la ciudad por la noche para celebrar su matrimonio con la diosa "Ishtar", donde la tierra y el cielo están unidos, y como los dioses se unen, así se organiza esta unión en la tierra. Así, el rey personifica esta unión jugando el papel de casarse con la más alta sacerdotisa de la Esagila donde ambos se sentarían en el trono ante la población y recitarían poemas especiales para la ocasión. Este amor dará vida en primavera. Undécimo día Los dioses regresan acompañados por su Lord Marduk para encontrarse nuevamente en el Salón de los Destinos "Upshu Ukkina", donde se encontraron por primera vez el octavo día, esta vez decidirán el destino de la gente de Marduk. En la antigua filosofía asiria, la creación en general se consideraba como un pacto entre el cielo y la tierra siempre que un humano sirviera a los dioses hasta su muerte, por lo tanto, la felicidad de los dioses no está completa, excepto si los humanos también son felices, por lo tanto, el destino de un humano ser dado felicidad con la condición de que sirva a los dioses. Entonces Marduk y los dioses renuevan su alianza con Babilonia, prometiéndole a la ciudad otro ciclo de estaciones. Después de que se decide el destino de la humanidad, Marduk regresa a los cielos. Duodécimo día El último día de Akitu. Los dioses regresan al templo de Marduk (las estatuas se devuelven al templo) y la vida diaria se reanuda en Babilonia, Nínive y el resto de las ciudades asirias. La gente comienza a arar y prepararse para otro ciclo de estaciones. ………………………………………………………………………………………. ………………………………………………………………………………………. Voy a utilizar algunos tuits miss y de el puntal de Dios comentando las jugadas que hacen los políticos en España para que vean como se las gastan con el tema del control del tiempo. Desde aquel "atropellamiento masivo de las Ramblas" ejecutado por el recurrente yihadismo donde se aceleraron los acontecimientos en el "procés" catalán. A los 9 meses justos y a las 11 y 33 horas se ritualizó el nombramiento del 131 president. Justo el 17/5/18 se cumplían los 9 meses del atentado de las Ramblas de Barcelona del 17/8/17. Como si de un embarazo se tratara se "transmutó" un 'rey cobarde' en TORRA a las 11:33 horas. Ritual para el 131 president de la Generalitat en la sala de la VIRGEN NEGRA. El 132 president, Pere Aragonés, fue investido 1100 días (1++1+0+0=11) después de la toma de posesión del 131. ¿parece un engranaje numérico, no creen? Tan sólo 15 días después, como si de una Luna Nueva se pasase a su fase plena, Pedro, el Indestructible, tomaba el cielo del Gobierno de España por asalto (casualidades de la vida) a las 11 y 33 horas del 1 de Junio del 2018. ¿Y Pedro, el Indestructible, utilizará la numerología para "hacer magia" en unas elecciones que tenía perdidas a ojos del profano? En el 5º aniversario de su "asalto al Congreso", con la connivencia de Mariano Rajoy, convoca elecciones generales a 55 días vista. Conforme al punto 177.4 del reglamento del Congreso de los Diputados hubo que iniciar la votación si o si a las 11 de la mañana. Bueno a las 11 y 1 minuto que es más resultón. ¿Se acuerdan de la turra que dieron con aplicar el articulo 155 de la Constitución? ¿Y en qué puesto voto el Sr Rajoy? Pues en el ¡¡¡155!!! ¿Cuál si no? ¿Hay una especie de hermandad que tiene una especial fijación con un juramento en las "sagradas escrituras" que mencionen ese 133? Hace unos años señalamos esa pista y todos esos caminos conducen a esos templos fraternales discretos. Leo textualmente lo que los propios masones dicen sobre el salmo 133 de la Biblia: “Uno de los temas más llamativos para quien ingresa a una logia masónica por primera vez, es sin duda la lectura del salmo 133 antes del inicio de los trabajos masónicos. Pero ¿es así en todos los rituales del mundo? ¿existen otros pasajes bíblicos que se lean en el primer grado? ¿qué significa el salmo 133 en la masonería? Un dato interesante que vale la pena señalar respecto del salmo 133 es que forma parte del último libro de salmos. Además, en la tradición judía, es uno de los 73 salmos a los que se les atribuye como autor al Rey David, padre de Salomón, rey edificador del primer templo. Dentro de la tradición masónica, el salmo 133 ha sido identificado como el salmo que más se acerca a los ideales de la institución.” ¿Por qué el "brujo" Puigdemont lanza un órdago de todo o nada a 33 días de las elecciones? El 12 de Mayo en año bisiesto es el día 133 en curso. Él mismo fue el 130 president y aspira a ser el 133¿Será un patrón "numerológico" qué enlace con otros sucesos ceremoniales anteriores? ………………………………………………………………………………………. simbologia, un texto de PeterHouse Pro Cuando escribí sobre la relación entre la cuaresma, la pascua judía y el Akitu no pensé que se hablaría del tema y por no alargar mucho el escrito no profundicé mucho en el paralelismo de lo que vivimos hoy en España y los rituales mesopotámicos. El conocimiento de estos rituales ha sido transmitido entre la élite y son la base de la ingeniería social que sufrimos hoy. Cada cultura o civilización que los ha ido adoptando le ha introducido o eliminado elementos a conveniencia y así sucesivamente hasta nuestros días. La parte superficial de estos rituales mágicos ha cambiado pero no la esencia y su utilidad. En la naturaleza existen ciclos, así como a la psique humana le cuesta identificar patrones exponenciales y evidentemente recrearlos con el pensamiento también le cuesta identificar esos ciclos naturales. Hoy en día todo el mundo conoce el ciclo anual que llamamos estaciones del año, pero no siempre fue así, hubo un tiempo, cuando este y otros ciclos empezaban a ser identificados por las mentes más inquietas en que el conocimiento en torno a estos cálculos estaba velado para el común de los mortales. Al tiempo que la élite ha profundizado en el conocimiento de todo tipo de ciclos los ha sabido identificar en la naturaleza cada vez más y día a día ha ido sacando provecho de su control. Esto se puede observar en todo tipo de campos, desde algo tan físico y cuantificable como la mecánica de movimiento armónico hasta algo tan ancestral como la agricultura. Así como el ingeniero sabe cómo aprovechar el movimiento armónico para emplear la menor energía posible (el péndulo es símbolo de esto), el agricultor sabe cómo sacar el máximo provecho de su cosecha y estos conocimientos son el cúmulo de miles de años de conocimiento transmitido de generación en generación. Estos conocimientos son guardados celosamente durante mucho tiempo y conforme la élite es capaz de alcanzar niveles nuevos de sabiduría el pueblo llano va teniendo, poco a poco, acceso a los conocimientos ya obsoletos para el Poder, como si de algo novedoso se tratara. Esto le sirve para tener una sociedad lo suficientemente productiva pero lo suficientemente limitada. Esto, que es fácil de identificar en la agricultura se puede aplicar a absolutamente a todo lo que tiene que ver con el conocimiento, cualquier rama de cualquier ciencia. El Poder aplica a la gran la masa de seres humanos que controla el mismo tratamiento que da a las diferentes masas que ha aprendido a gestionar, por ejemplo la economía. Es decir, a la tierra, a la gente y al dinero se los somete a ciclos que los hacen producir más y mejor, podando o poniendo en barbecho según dicte el conocimiento de los ciclos naturales. La expresión ‘año sabático’, en hebreo ‘Shmitá’ proviene del séptimo año del ciclo agrícola de siete años ordenado por la Torá para la Tierra de Israel, observado aún en el judaísmo actual. Durante la shmitá la ley judía prohíbe toda actividad agrícola, incluyendo arar, plantar, podar y cosechar. Una variedad de leyes también se aplican a la venta, consumo y disposición de productos y todas las deudas, excepto las de los extranjeros, que debían ser remitidas. El Capítulo 25 del Libro de Levítico promete abundantes cosechas a quienes observan la shmitá, esto es algo que se aprecia en cómo la élite maneja la economía; el 29 de septiembre de 2008 el índice Dow Jones Industrial caía 777,7 (77,68) puntos, un 7%, la mayor de su historia en puntos, la segunda mayor caída anterior fue el 1 de septiembre de 2001, un 7,13%; ambas caídas ocurrieron un 29 de Elul, fecha que marca el fin del Shmita y día en que en el judaísmo se hace una ceremonia de “substitución” para celebrar el fin de las deudas durante el Rosh Hashaná. Es una perfecta ingeniería social porque, como el barbecho debe hacerse para darle a la tierra un ciclo sostenible, introducir la shmitá en una sociedad agrícola genera una sociedad de excedentes, se promueve el ahorro y la banca y se evita el sobre-endeudamiento, el año de descanso agrícola le da al país cierto paro pero incrementa el comercio internacional, la población flotante de pobres se mantiene y la élite de esa sociedad probablemente terminará convirtiéndose en acreedora internacional. De hecho, solamente ha tenido que hacer cumplir las escrituras: Deuteronomio 15:1-6 “Al cabo de cada siete años harás remisión de deudas. Así se hará la remisión: todo acreedor hará remisión de lo que haya prestado a su prójimo; no lo exigirá de su prójimo ni de su hermano, porque se ha proclamado la remisión del Señor. De un extranjero lo puedes exigir, pero tu mano perdonará cualquier cosa tuya que tu hermano tenga. Sin embargo, no habrá menesteroso entre ustedes, ya que el Señor de cierto te bendecirá en la tierra que el Señor tu Dios te da por heredad para poseerla, si solo escuchas fielmente la voz del Señor tu Dios, para guardar cuidadosamente todo este mandamiento que te ordeno hoy. Pues el Señor tu Dios te bendecirá como te ha prometido, y tú prestarás a muchas naciones, pero tú no tomarás prestado; y tendrás dominio sobre muchas naciones, pero ellas no tendrán dominio sobre ti.” Hoy en día, tras la destrucción de las entre comillas “columnas gemelas” y la construcción del One World Trade Center, el concepto de Israel se ha expandido a todo el mundo globalizado y se le aplica a la sociedad mundial esta misma magia, la maldición del 9 de Av que hemos conocido de manos de Aingeru García es una de estas podas que se le hace a la masa de gente como control eugenésico. No hay que esperar el nacimiento de ninguna vaca roja ni la construcción de un tercer templo, ése templo es el planeta entero y ahora que la comunidad es global esa magia se aplica de muchas formas pero son identificables porque la élite, por un motivo u otro (algo que deberá abordarse) está sujeta a los ritos y estos, al estar relacionados con los astros y por lo tanto con los números, pueden ser descubiertos. «El tiempo saca a la luz todo lo que está oculto y encubre y esconde lo que ahora brilla con el más grande esplendor.» Horacio. Siglo I antes de Cristo. El mal vende. Y vende bien. ………………………………………………………………………………………. Invitados: …. Dra Yane #JusticiaParaUTP @ayec98_2 Médico y Buscadora de la verdad. Con Dios siempre! No permito q me dividan c/izq -derecha, raza, religión ni nada de la Creación. https://youtu.be/TXEEZUYd4c0 …. UTP Ramón Valero @tecn_preocupado Un técnico Preocupado un FP2 IVOOX UTP http://cutt.ly/dzhhGrf BLOG http://cutt.ly/dzhh2LX Ayúdame desde mi Crowfunding aquí https://cutt.ly/W0DsPVq ………………………………………………………………………………………. Enlaces citados en el podcast: UTP33 La bomba nuclear que quiso fabricar Franco https://www.ivoox.com/utp33-la-bomba-nuclear-quiso-fabricar-franco-audios-mp3_rf_19786927_1.html Apofis (mitología) https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apofis_(mitolog%C3%ADa) Alex Proyas justifica por qué Disney, Marvel y Star Wars están matando el género fantástico y la gran pantalla https://www.ecartelera.com/noticias/entrevista-alex-proyas-el-cuervo-nocturna-2019-57316/ ‘Dioses de Egipto’: El director pide disculpas por la falta de diversidad racial en el reparto https://www.sensacine.com/noticias/cine/noticia-18535324/ ANUNNAKI: LA PELÍCULA QUE PUDO ALTERAR LA HISTORIA… ¿FUE REALMENTE PROHIBIDA? https://codigooculto.com/enigmas/anunnaki-la-pelicula-que-pudo-alterar-la-historia-fue-realmente-prohibida/ Anunnaki Trailer Oficial - Jon Gress - 2017 [La Película Prohibida] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buoG_nEZFnk 1ANUNNAKI, LA PELÍCULA QUE NUNCA SE ESTRENÓ, ¿POR QUÉ? https://exociencias.wordpress.com/2012/03/28/1anunnaki-la-pelicula-que-nunca-se-estreno-por-que/ VIDEOS ES CLAVE https://tecnicopreocupado.com/videos/videos-es-clave/ LA LEYENDA DE LAS ESTRELLAS ERRANTES Y LOS REYES DEL TIEMPO.(PARTE I) https://tecnicopreocupado.com/2023/06/24/la-leyenda-de-las-estrellas-errantes-y-los-reyes-del-tiempo-parte-i/ LOS REYES DEL TIEMPO https://tecnicopreocupado.com/2023/12/30/los-reyes-del-tiempo/ La NASA solo sabe sacar 33 tornillos de los 35 de la capsula OSIRIS-REX https://www.burbuja.info/inmobiliaria/threads/la-nasa-solo-sabe-sacar-33-tornillos-de-los-35-de-la-capsula-osiris-rex.2045303/ Porque se eligió el 4 de julio como dia de la Independencia en USA https://twitter.com/AmurakaHidden/status/1777084193656172663 USA como encarnación del antiguo Egipto https://twitter.com/AmurakaHidden/status/1776737930641387897 Sirio, la historia del Ojo en el Cielo https://vaventura.com/divulgacion/historia/sirio-la-historia-del-ojo-cielo DANIEL SANCHO. MUERTE Y RESURRECCIÓN DE OSIRIS EN TRES ACTOS https://tecnicopreocupado.com/2023/08/09/daniel-sancho-muerte-y-resurreccion-de-osiris-en-tres-actos/ DANIEL SANCHO Y LA RESURRECCIÓN TRAS LA PASCUA https://tecnicopreocupado.com/2024/03/29/daniel-sancho-y-la-resurreccion-tras-la-pascua/ UTP86 Coronavirus, Akituatraco a las 8 https://www.ivoox.com/utp86-coronavirus-akituatraco-a-8-audios-mp3_rf_49387968_1.html ¿Es la estrella cervecera de origen judío? http://www.beeretseq.com/is-the-brewing-star-of-jewish-origin/ Hexagrama: La Estrella Alquímica https://santuariodelalba.wordpress.com/2017/11/14/la-estrella-alquimica-de-6-picos-o-estrella-de-los-magos/ The Six Point Brewers Star http://www.brewingmuseum.org/articles/six-point-brewers-star La extraña estrella del Cinturón de Orión https://www.burbuja.info/inmobiliaria/threads/cuaderno-de-ocultismo.642262/ Akitu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akitu http://www.thefullwiki.org/Akitu Festival Akitu https://www.livius.org/articles/religion/akitu/ https://www.encyclopedia.com/environment/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/akitu El Antiguo Festival Akitu y la Humillación del Rey https://www.ancient-origins.es/noticias-general-historia-tradiciones-antiguas/el-antiguo-festival-akitu-la-humillaci%C3%B3n-rey-002363 Abofetear al rey en la mejilla en la antigua Babilonia https://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Slapping-the-king-on-the-cheek-in-ancient-Babylon-376438 El Rey renuncia a la herencia de su padre y le retira su asignación por sus supuestas cuentas en Suiza https://elpais.com/espana/2020-03-15/el-rey-renuncia-a-la-herencia-de-su-padre-y-le-retira-su-asignacion.html?ssm=TW_CM Zagatka y Lucum, las dos fundaciones bajo sospecha en Suiza relacionadas con el Rey emérito https://elpais.com/espana/2020-03-15/zagatka-y-lucum-las-dos-fundaciones-relacionadas-con-el-rey-emerito-bajo-sospecha-en-suiza.html Ordago del 133 presidente de Cataluña https://twitter.com/elpuntaldedios/status/1778004100853981318 Bienvenidos al muy masónico gobierno de España https://twitter.com/tecn_preocupado/status/1002586046629105664 El salmo 133 en la Masonería https://elblogdelmason.com/el-salmo-133-en-la-masoneria/ Episodio 5 de la 2a temporada del Ministerio del Tiempo (2016) que trata sobre la gripe Española la puerta por la que llega el virus es la ¡2020! https://twitter.com/tecn_preocupado/status/1298344935507267590 ………………………………………………………………………………………. Música utilizada en este podcast: Tema inicial Heros Entradilla levitants - Uno de los nuestros https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmEgLAOnHuk Calibre Zero - Es Tiempo de Reaccionar https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgPZVp9h6wA Exopoetics - La huella de los dioses https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14kvNSItPrs SHÉ - Guardianes del tiempo https://youtu.be/Jl9PPyMyNyE?feature=shared Norykko - El final de los tiempos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORuzXmxOQ28 SHÉ - TIEMPO https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htFzJIv1W2A Exopoetics - Revelaciones [Prod. Dash Shamash] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-WSB7WVQZ4 ……………………………………………………………….. Epílogo Diego Vasallo - Caemos como cae un ángel https://youtu.be/2Mj1aqLErHE?feature=shared

Seguimos recopilando todas las noticias del Atleti con este nuevo episodio del Informativo Colchonero. Hoy hablamos de la salida de Hermoso; de la consulta por Gyökeres; del interés confirmado en Lewandowski; de la puja por Agustín Giay; de las palabras de Mosquera; de la opción Lucumí; del Fenerbahçe y la negociación por Söyüncü; Witsel se queda... Todo ello y más, en De Padres a Hijos. Conviértete en miembro de este canal para disfrutar de ventajas: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCl_X6QI3mnJsttsp96OsCZQ/join Correo: depadresahijoscontacto@gmail.com Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/depadresahijos Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/depadresahijos1903/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/DPaH1903 Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@DPaH1903/videos Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6WcodO17ASqRfxYNrjhVGD #atleticomadrid #atleti #futbol #laliga #football

In February 2024, Rev. Latishia will be embarking on a profound initiation into the Lucumí tradition, as a priest dedicated to Oshun. The Lucumí faith, also known as Santería, is a rich and vibrant Afro-Caribbean spiritual tradition that has been a source of inspiration and guidance for her on her path. From February 2024-February 2025, Rev. Latishia will undergo the Iyaworaje, commonly referred to as the "year of white." This period is a time of deep spiritual reflection, learning, and growth, marking the beginning of a new phase in her ministry.In this powerful interview, Rev. Latishia shares how understanding and incorporating the faith of her ancestors has enhanced her own faith, deepening her relationship with Christ and with her ancestors. About Rev. Latishia JamesLatishia James, MDiv (she/they) affectionately known as Rev. Pleasure is a Black queer femme, womanist, writer, facilitator of healing spaces for BIPOC women, femmes, and LGBTQIA folks, and sacral spirituality coach. A Master of Divinity and Certificate of Sexuality & Religion graduate from Pacific School of Religion she lives - and works - at the intersection of pleasure activism, sacral sanctity, spirituality, reproductive and healing justice. She is currently the Co-Director for Organizational Development at SACReD - Spiritual Alliance of Communities for Reproductive Dignity.Latishia also holds a Bachelor of Arts from Villanova University in Human Services, which is where they first understood that they could be a healing practitioner beyond a medical professional and began advocating for the wholeness of women and girls of color. Their startup spirit and ministry of presence reaches beyond the physical walls of "the church." Her service as a rape crisis counselor, LGBTQ activist, hospital and abortion-clinic chaplain, and facilitator blossomed into Empathic Solutions, LLC. Their consulting and spiritual coaching practice for people harmed by religious rhetoric and patriarchal power-based violence.Latishia is dedicated to the wholeness of Black folks, and that is at the forefront of everything she does including her care of herself. They are committed to experiencing the fullness of joy and goodness of their body for their own benefit, outside of systems of oppression, in this lifetime and wants the same for their beloveds.Connect with LatishiaInstagram: @love.latishiaLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/latishiaavjames/Connect with us!Sign up to receive a little Gospel in your inbox every Monday Morning with our weekly devotional Check out our website for great resources, previous blog posts, and more.Get some Lady Preacher Podcast swag!Connect with us on Instagram and Facebook

Eugenia Rainey studies religion as negotiated process. She explores this process at the intersection of Lucumí, an Afro-Cuban religion, (also referred to as La Regla de Ochá or Santería) and medicine. Her work focuses on how the cultural competency paradigm that emerged out of Lyndon B. Johnson's Great Society influenced the adaptation of Lucumí practice outside of Cuba and racial identity formation in south Florida. Rainey's identity as Cape Verdean and multiracial inform her scholarship on processes of racialization in the United States and Latin America. With her thorough grounding in religious practice, her work highlights devotees' experiences and perceptions of the medical encounter. Through this research she seeks to better understand how the healthcare infrastructure impacts lived religion and how Lucumí in the US accommodates the healthcare needs of devotees as well as the healthcare infrastructure. Her research is supported by the Mellon Foundation, the Reed Foundation, as well as Tulane University and Dartmouth College. Visit Sacred Writes: https://www.sacred-writes.org/luce-cohort-spring-2023  

In today's episode titled "The Babalawo," we delve deep into the world of Santería - the religion, not the song. While many might recognize the song, few are familiar with this mysterious Afro-Cuban faith, also known as Regla de Ochá, La Regla de Ifá, or Lucumí, which translates to the worship of saints. You might wonder, "Where's the twist in this tale?" I've always felt an unsettling vibe around this religion. My fellow Cubans often consult Santería priests as if seeking divination. But is this genuine spiritual guidance, or am I unfairly biased against it? Spoiler: I might be letting my biases cloud my judgment. To truly understand, I need to immerse myself in the heart of Santería, right in my hometown of Miami. But first, what exactly is a Babalawo? A Babalawo is a revered figure in Santería, a priest who communicates prophecies from the Orishas, spirits representing aspects of the divine God Olodumare. In this episode, we'll uncover the history and roots of Santería, engaging in enlightening conversations with both a Santería priest and priestess, shedding light on their clandestine ceremonies. —–MUSIC—– Our theme music is crafted by the talented Joe Basile from The Chicken Music and Sound Design. Discover more about Joe and The Chicken at www.thechicken.net. We also feature tunes by Podington Bear. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The most well-known African-derived religion in the Americas is La Regla de Ocha or Lucumí, more popularly known as Santería. The music used to accompany rituals and ceremonies involves complex, polyrhythmic drumming and a huge repertoire of songs for the different orishas (Yoruba-derived deities), like Yemayá, Oshún and Changó. Rebecca breaks down some basic features of the religion and its diverse musical ensembles, as well as its widespread influence on Cuban popular music.Songs played:Elegua, Jesus Díaz y Su QBAA Elegua, Merceditas Valdés y Yoruba AndaboGüiro for Oshun, Afrocuba de MatanzasOgun, Bobi CéspedesY Que Tú Quieres Que Te Den (1991), Adalberto Álvarez Y Su SonY Que Tú Quieres Que Te Den (2005), Adalberto Álvarez Y Su SonSupport the showIf you like this podcast, please subscribe and give us a 5-star rating on Apple PodcastsFollow The Clave Chronicles on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook @clavechronicleshttps://theclavechronicles.buzzsprout.comIntro and outro music: "Bengo Latino," Jimmy Fontanez/Media Right Productions

En este episodio de Voces del Deporte hablamos con Alberto Gamero, técnico de Millonarios, sobre su renovación hasta 2026 y el proyecto con el equipo. Además, hablamos de la baja de Lucumí para las eliminatorias y la polémica entre Napoli y Osimhen.This show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/4232891/advertisement

Yoruba. Èdè Yorùbá; is a language spoken in West Africa, primarily in Southwestern and Central Nigeria. It is spoken by the ethnic Yoruba people. As a pluricentric language, it is primarily spoken in a dialectal area spanning Nigeria and Benin with smaller migrated communities in Côte d'Ivoire, Sierra Leone, and The Gambia. Yoruba vocabulary is also used in the Afro-Brazilian religion known as Candomblé, in the Caribbean religion of Santería in the form of the liturgical Lucumí language, and in various Afro-American religions of North America. Join us as we explore the Yoruba, tracing its origins and unraveling the linguistic influences that have shaped its uniqueness.

Alberto Ruiz, uno de los grandes cantantes de nuestra tierra, tan pródiga en ritmos, estilos y, cómo no, en imperdonables olvidos, interpretó magistralmente sones, boleros, guarachas, montunos, y todo género que se le puso por delante con su timbre cálido y un dominio absoluto del ritmo y las inspiraciones. Con un estilo de vocalizar marcado por peculiares melismas, Alberto Ruiz identificó la fabulosa era de los conjuntos soneros que, durante los años 40 del siglo XX, fueron punto de giro importante en la evolución de la música popular cubana, y fuente inequívoca de la posterior era "salsera" impulsada a su vez por la desarticulación del entramado de difusión independiente cubano. Apreciaban sus contemporáneos la similitud de Alberto Ruiz con el malogrado cantante Pablo Quevedo, ídolo popular de los primeros años 30, desaparecido tempranamente, víctima de la tuberculosis. En cualquier caso el recuerdo de Alberto Ruiz con su conjunto "Kubavana" nos devuelve hoy el esplendor de aquellas formaciones soneras progresivas que, en plena década del 40, representaron un paso de avance, incorporando elementos rítmicos fundamentales como la tumbadora y la campana, y enriqueciendo el apartado melódico y armónico ampliando la sección de metales a dos y tres trompetas. En sus filas unos juveniles percusionistas Carlos "Patato" Valdés y Armando Peraza y el pianista Eulogio "Yoyo" Casteleiro. Las voces de Mario Recio, Roberto Faz, Carlos Querol, Laíto Sureda y Orlando Vallejo, entre 1944 y 1947 cerraron los coros del "Kubavana" junto a su cantante estrella: Alberto Ruiz. Y de la era de los conjuntos de los progresivos años 40, pasamos a los 50 cuando el auge del "cha cha chá" aseguraba a las orquestas típicas un segundo aire en los escenarios. Recordaremos al flautista José Antonio Fajardo en tres tiempos. Primero, mediando los años 40, junto a la orquesta del llamado "Rey de la Melodía": Joseito Fernández. Fajardo, ya avanzada la década del 50, consagrado en los espacios bailables a lo largo y ancho de la isla, cristalizó estilo y sonoridad gracias a sus grabaciones para los discos "Puchito" y más tarde para el pionero sello "Panart". El "Fajimambo", siempre el músico popular queriendo dejar su huella en el tiempo. Con su ritmo charanga Fajardo conquistará el aplauso de la colonia latina en Nueva York: "Pa Coco solo", otra de sus últimas grabaciones en La Habana. "Los Sitios llaman" y "Desconfianza", danzón-bolero. Volvemos a repasar ciertas memorias del aire que, a lo largo de la primera mitad del siglo XX, tuvieron muy en cuenta a la próspera colonia española asentada en la Isla. Juan Legido, cantante de origen marroquí, triunfó en La Habana de los primeros años 50 como cantante de "Los Churumbeles de España" una de aquellas orquestas que, en la frontera de los 40 a los 50, encontraron en La Habana una plaza artística nada despreciable. Angelillo, un soberbio cantaor flamenco, de paso por Cuba allá por 1937, conquistó a los oyentes de la Radio Cadena Suaritos con esta versión de "Ojos verdes". Grabación histórica que hoy dedicamos a nuestro entrañable Cristóbal Díaz Ayala. La cubana Obdulia Breijo, en su paso por la radio y televisión, con el sobrenombre de "La Sevillanita", representó toda aquella época de incesantes presentaciones en directo donde los artistas criollos alternaron con muchos intérpretes españoles recién llegados al Caribe dispuestos a triunfar y "hacer las Américas". En 1951 hicieron furor en la radio cubana el Niño de Utrera y Trini Morén con este drama cantado que seguramente hizo derramar más de una lágrima: "El hijo de nadie". Como llegamos, nos vamos. Volvemos al recuerdo de aquellos formidables conjuntos cubanos que durante los años 40, 50 y 60, reforzaron la presencia de la música popular cubana en el mundo. Tres grandes del Son: Aristides Balmaseda, Filiberto y el chino Lahera con el Conjunto "Estrellas de Chocolate ", el piano de Columbié, y los arreglos y el tres del gran Niño Rivera.

During the 19th century, African slaves brought to Cuba continued to worship and revere their own Gods, dieties and spirits from their original Yoruba religion, but masked as Catholic Saints. These gods and sprits are called Orisha, and they form the backbone of the African diaspora religion Santería, otherwise known as Lucumí. There are many aspects of Lucumí which make it very unique, including initiation, divination, ancestors, and so much more. Giving the listeners a well-rounded introduction to this austere tradition are Santeros Steven Cherena and Eric Purdue!

Mel collects Latin American and Caribbean paranormal stories. As a first generation Cuban American, she's no stranger to Lucumí and Santería practitioners warning of spirits in her family's home. But when she comes face to face with angry ghosts in her own space, she's found ways to make them go away. We're excited to bring on Mel Trahan of ¡Ay Ghost Mio! on this episode.Check out Mel's podcast at https://ayghostmio.weebly.com/ her Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/ayghostmio/ and her TikTok at https://www.tiktok.com/@ayghostmioOur sponsors are our bread and butter. Please consider visiting one of the shops below and show them so love!CoraCreaCraftsInspired to create some spooky artistic wonders? Check out https://coracreacrafts.com for Medieval, witchy, vintage supplies such as leather-bound books and papers with antique anatomy drawings on them and use code HomespunHaints for 15% off.The Smell of Fear Candle CompanyWant your house to smell like an Edgar Allan Poe story? Check out the collections of spooky and horror-themed scents and get a candle shaped like a skull at https://thesmelloffear.com and use code HOMESPUN15 for 15% off!Support our Patreon at https://patreon.com/homespunhaints

Según informaron en Blog Deportivo, Peñarol de Uruguay se encuentra interesado en contratar los servicios del delantero colombiano Jeison Lucumí, actualmente en el Deportes Tolima, equipo que disputará la final de la Liga Betplay. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Curious about past lives, astral realms, and traveling through the ether? Today we're chatting with one of my favorite healers - Angie Rojo, who I've personally experiences Quantum Healing Hypnosis Journeys with. Definitely connect with Angie for a trip! Angie Rojo is a Certified Quantum Healing Hypnosis Practitioner and Intentional Living & Self-Love Mentor. During a session, people go to past lives, lives in other dimensions, and ultimately connect with Higher Self and the Universal Collective Consciousness. Angie has been an active leader and facilitator in the spiritual space since 2002. She is anointed a Priestess Daughter of Oshun in the Lucumí religion. Her mission in life is to guide people to live intentionally, joyfully, and with purpose. https://www.arcusology.com/ https://www.instagram.com/inspiredwithangie/ _____________________   ▲ Learn your Healer Archetype here: www.alwaysplay.org/healerarchetype ▲ Healing Arts Practitioner Training Program Immersion: www.alwaysplay.org/immersion ▲ Read my Breathwork book, Breathe: www.alwaysplay.org/orderbreathe   

Jordan Redwine, co-host of A Novel Adaptation podcast, is back on the mic for her second guest appearance on the pod! Melissa kicks off the show by introducing King Christina of Sweden, the 17th century gender-bending, troublemaking King who helped put an end to the Thirty Years' War on religion. Jordan tells the story of Carlota and Fermina Lucumí, machete wielding rebels who led the 1843 slave rebellion in Matanzas, Cuba.If you enjoy this episode, send it to a friend! Word of mouth recommendations are the best way to support the growth and success of this show. If you'd like to go a step further, check out my new support feature!SHOW NOTESIn this episode, we talk about:The shit show of 2020 and beyondJordan's podcast, A Novel AdaptationMelissa's favorite book of all time, The Silent PatientPinot Gris wine reviewsKing Christina of Sweden's privileged upbringing + her wild family dynamicsPCOS, intersex, sexual fluidity, and moreReligion during the 1600s + Sweden's involvement in Thirty Years' WarBankrupted and bougie, nervous breakdowns, and new beginningsCarlota and Fermina Lucumí's life as kidnapped Africans sold into slaveryThe harsh and brutal conditions working for Spanish plantation owners in CubaPlotting the rebellion and communicating to other slaves via coded messages in drum beatsThe 1843 uprising at the Triunvirato sugar mill plantation in Cuba + the "Year of the Lashes"RESOURCES:Check out A Novel Adaptation podcastRead Melissa's favorite book The Silent PatientRead Jordan's recommendation The Book of Night WomenFollow Mimosa Sisterhood on InstagramCheck out our podcast merchandise!Sign up for our Newsletter and receive a FREE postcard!Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/mimosasisterhoodpodcast. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Jesse Hathaway Diaz presents Apocalypti/c/orazon Jesse Hathaway Diaz is a folklorist, diviner, artist and performer living in New York City. With initiations in several forms of witchcraft from both Europe and the Americas, he is also a lifelong student of Mexican Curanderismo, a priest of Obatalá in the Lucumí orisha tradition, and a Tatá Quimbanda. He is also a member of the experimental theatre group Dzieci, based in New York City. He is the goat-half of http://www.wolf-and-goat.com a store specializing in occult art, esoterica and materia magica from many traditions including Traditional Craft and Quimbanda. His blog can be found at http://www.serpentshod.com His writings have been published by Scarlet Imprint and by Revelore Press, where he also co-edits the Folk Necromancy in Transmission Series. Along with Dr. Al Cummins, he is a co-host of the Radio Free Golgotha podcast. http://www.radiofreegolgotha.com The full panel may be viewed at YouTube: https://youtu.be/lJlQanQnIbw For links to everything visit: www.renderingunconscious.org The song at the end of the episode is Inner Underworld by Vanessa Sinclair and Henrik Nordvargr Björkk from the album of the same name: https://vanessasinclairhenriknordvargrbjrkk.bandcamp.com Many thanks to Carl Abrahamsson for providing the intro and outro music for Rendering Unconscious Podcast.

56. Lucumí está trabajando en una tienda tecnológica

62. Lucumí está dando clases de natación

Lucumí cuenta cómo ha sido la separación de su espos

¿Se va Aldair Rodríguez del fútbol colombiano ante la llegada de Jeison Lucumí al América? Hernán Peláez y Martín De Francisco hablaron sobre el interés de Sporting Cristal por el atacante peruano y el regreso de Lucumí al cuadro escarlata. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

El defensor Andrés Felipe Román no habría superado las pruebas médicas par allegar a Boca Juniors debido a una complicación que radicaría en un problema cardíaco del jugador. racán de Argentina presentó hoy al central José Moya como nuevo jugador del equipo. América de Cali presentó al extremo Jeison Steven Lucumí como nuevo jugador del equipo y mucho más del mundo del deporte.

Welcome to episode 37, "Singing for the Orishas," featuring Afro-Cuban Santería/Lucumí singer, Merceditas Valdes (1922-1996). Raised in a musical household alongisde Yoruba and Cuban traditions, Valdez took to Afro-Cuban Lucumí music and religious practice as a teenager in Havana. Working alongside leading figures, Valdes became the voice and face for the AfroCubanismo movement, with her recordings ceremonially celebrating the divine and ancestral spirits, or Orishas, of Lucumí and Yoruba tradition. However, the Cuban Communist Party would silence her voice for 20 years. Freed from suppression in 1980s, Valdes would release several Lucumí albums before her death in 1996. This episode explores the world of Afro-Cuban Lucumí religion and its ceremonial music tradition through one of the tradition's most revered song leaders. Welcome to the way of the spirits...

The Altar of My Soul Religious beliefs normally follow people as they migrate, including people who are forced to migrate. The people forced to migrate to the western Hemisphere during the slave-trading period carried their beliefs and belief systems to the diaspora of their new world. The Santeria religion, also know as Lucumí, is a belief system that originated in Africa later brought to the Americas and is still practiced in widely separated communities of the western hemisphere. Marta Moreno Vega, a Santeria Priestess, and university professor in New York City is the author of “The Alter of My Soul.” Her book is a story of the Santeria or Lucumí religion, its traditions, how they were brought from Africa and are practiced now. I spoke with Marta Moreno Vega by phone in November of 2000, and we began when I asked her to tell us about the Santeria religion and how it differs from other religions. Marta Morena Vega recommends “Face of The Gods: Art and Altars of Africa and the African Americans,” by Robert F. Thompson. Originally Broadcast: November 7, 2000

Señor: Disculpe el atrevimiento, pero me dirijo a Usted en nombre propio y en el de mi madre, quien seguro estaría firmando conmigo esta carta, de no estar ella muerta desde hace unos años. Pero conociendo sobradamente su carácter y sentir, en su nombre también me dirijo. Verá Usted, me mueve, nos mueve, la indignación y la tristeza. Verá por qué. Ayer, seis de diciembre, día de la constitución, me pellizcaba y no lo creía. Me desperté con la noticia de que Usted, su Majestad el Rey Emérito, Juan Carlos I había pedido a la hacienda pública, una actualización fiscal de periodos atrasados por fondos supuestamente opacos. Y por supuesto, no declarados en su momento. Hasta aquí hemos llegado pensé. No puede ser. Al leer estas noticias que se suman a otros escándalos protagonizados por su excelentísima persona, afloran las emociones diversas que me motivan a escribirle. Por un lado la indignación y por otro la tristeza. La indignación ante la traición. Como la que sentiría mi madre si levantara la cabeza, después de haberle defendido en algunas ocasiones hasta con vehemencia. Y la tristeza por la pérdida de la confianza en su persona y en lo que representa. Verá Majestad, La decepción con usted es grande. Quizá no se lo han dicho personalmente, pero sí, lo es y mucho. Y si así nos sentimos, es porque en un momento, Usted fue una persona de gran valor para muchos. Me incluyo. Pero claro, como a tantos, me enervan las tomaduras de pelo reiteradas, y a pesar de eso, en mi fuero interno, he tratado de rescatar, incrédula de mí misma, el recuerdo emocionante de lo que nos hizo sentir su Magna figura, durante la transición y concretamente en los días del intento de golpe de estado en España. Le recuerdo a Usted joven, pero seguro y contundente en esa madrugada del 23 de febrero del 81, Salió en la televisión y se nos grabó a muchos y algunos como mi madre, le elevaron a la categoría de héroe. Le veíamos ahí delante, firme y sereno, conjurando a los golpistas sin un ápice de duda en su voz y con absoluta determinación. Ese 23 de febrero del 81 quedó en nuestras memorias como un día en el que contuvimos la respiración por muchas horas, Majestad. Muchas y llenas de confusión en las que fue creciendo el miedo por lo que podríamos perder en caso de madurar ese golpe de mano. Recuerdo perfectamente cómo las viví y cómo se vivieron en casa. Por entonces, sabe Usted, yo iba por la tarde a unos cursos monográficos de dibujo que se daban en la Escuela de Artes, esa que está en la calle del Marqués de Cubas, a poco más de 100 metros del Congreso. Por poco y no me pilla dentro, ¿sabe? Ese día salí antes, no recuerdo por qué, pero me fui caminando hacia Atocha. Se tardan unos minutos hasta llegar a la parada. El conductor tenía la radio encendida. En el autobús, alguien puso en alto otro transistor y gritó: ¡hay disparos en el congreso!. Después de esa confusión inicial y del susto, se hizo el silencio. Un silencio frío. Lleno de miedo. ¿Que decían los locutores?. ¡Disparos en el congreso!. ¿Disparos en el congreso? ¿Pero de quienes?? Militares. Guardias civiles al mando de un tal Tejero. Uno que ya estuvo implicado en el caso Galaxia, ¿se acuerda? No lo podía creer, algo me alertó a pesar de mi inocente juventud y lo único que hice fue tratar de llegar cuanto antes a mi casa. Mi madre me recibió aliviada y angustiada, con sus enormes ojos azules abiertos como ventanas. Su blancura natural se confundía con la de la pared. Entre sus manos retorcía nerviosamente un pañuelo tratando de ponerme, atropelladamente, al corriente. -Papá no está, le tocaba turno en el periódico. Ay qué miedo hija, qué miedo. Aquí se puede liar una muy gorda.- Su miedo a bocajarro nos invadió a todos. Bien sabía ella de lo que hablaba… Esa noche España entera estuvo en vela. Nadie se separaba de las emisoras de radio. Los militares habían tomado la televisión y solo se emitían músicas militares. Las radios eran nuestros ojos dentro y fuera del hemiciclo. Usted tardaba en salir. Lo hizo a la una y cuarto de la madrugada le vimos en la pantalla, cuando ya todos nos preguntábamos ¿qué pasaba, por qué no sabíamos nada aún, ni qué haría? ¿Estaría Usted también metido en el ajo?? Cuando apareció su mensaje se pudo escuchar el suspiro entre nosotros, claro y rotundo. Su salida era el inicio del final de esa pesadilla. No tuvimos dudas. Aquél día con esa aparición, se consagró ante nuestros ojos. Pasó a ser, de verdad, el Rey de todos. ¡A sus pies Majestad!! Creo que Usted fue el monarca más protegido y venerado por el pueblo en toda la historia reciente de nuestro país. Ya sabe, veníamos debatiéndonos tantos años.. república sí, o monarquía. En ese momento, todos le fuimos leales. ¡A ese rey ni tocarlo! Llegué a escuchar un día de mi abuela y quien había luchado por la república. Mire Usted si llegó a ser importante…. Parecía que por fín éste sí era el de todos y además entendió que se debía a un país democrático. Democrático. ¡Qué importante era eso! Le creímos a pie juntillas Majestad. Y compramos todo lo que nos dijo. Como españoles, creo que le devolvimos con creces el respeto que nos dio esa noche negra y que ahora disculpe, parece haber tirado a la basura. Por eso, al leer esta noticia justo en el día de la conmemoración de aquella votación en la que nos defendimos con un sí rotundo a favor de nuestra Carta Magna, me deja incrédula; no creía que me volviera a sorprender Usted de nuevo. Ya lo ha estado haciendo por años, pero esto ya es otro pasito más hacia el acantilado. Es como que si no quisiera creer que aquél representante con el que orgullosamente creíamos contar, nos hubiera traicionado por la cosa más pueril del mundo. Unas perras… Unas monedas, que al final no tienen importancia alguna si comparamos el valor del dinero con lo que destruye en sus actos. Hoy hemos terminado de despertar de este sueño empapados en su desgraciada decadencia. Porque aquél 6 de diciembre del 78 votamos sí a La Constitución en masa. Esa en la que el Usted, la verdad le digo, era tragado y aceptado como parte del juego por el que apostábamos, hacia un futuro democrático. Una figura, que quizá hoy no se necesite en absoluto, pero que entonces, era el fiel de la balanza. Realizamos en aquellas elecciones una apuesta casi unánime por la constitución. El 92% de los votantes españoles, dijeron sí, frente a un escaso 8,19% que dijo no. De los 26 millones de personas con derecho a voto, más de un 67,% acudieron. En aquellos años solo los mayores de 21 años podían. Yo no. Esa declaración era la guinda final del pastel tras muchos esfuerzos por superar el pasado horripilante de presiones y avanzar hacia la democracia. Por fin arrancarían los motores del progreso democrático y las libertades como las habíamos soñado. Comenzaban grandes retos pero los afrontábamos con ilusiones. No teníamos de nada, pero a pesar de los nubarrones en esos momentos tan delicados, en los que aún íbamos de puntillas, supimos llenarnos de optimismo. El miedo a dar pasos hacia atrás nos mantenía alerta, pero unidos en esa visión conjunta de futuro. Durante aquél proceso, este pueblo Majestad, aprendió a dar carpetazos a los errores del pasado, y a borrar culpables o responsables. Cerramos el cajón del desastre y tiramos la llave lejos y con fuerza. Fueron tiempos de acuerdos y de evitar rascar, Usted lo sabe, para no levantar nuevamente ampollas que no parecían querer sanar tirando en divergentes direcciones. La democracia se sustentó en muchos pactos de silencio y la monarquía, fue una de esas instituciones que aceptamos y que realmente parecía tender puentes hacia la dirección correcta. No más sangre. No más resarcimientos. De nadie. Usted, hasta la muerte del General, solo había sido una figura meramente decorativa, perdone que le diga… No dejaba de ser un heredero de paja para un régimen moribundo, o así queríamos pensar. Pero a la muerte del General, su figura tomó un protagonismo vital. Las desconfianzas estaban servidas tras haber sido el protegido. Las asociaciones al viejo régimen, a pesar de su campechanismo, seguían sobrevolando y el desánimo de los republicanos de raza, que veían nuevamente cómo entraba un Rey en España, también se retorcían en sus sillas pero aceptaron y tragaron, era lo mejor para España. Pero era innegable, que a pesar de limitarle sus competencias, seguiría usted siendo el Jefe del Estado y de las Fuerzas Armadas. Sí, en ese tiempo todos hicieron equilibrios complejos y de puntilla sobre la cuerda floja. Me imagino, que para Usted, aunque joven, no se le escapaba que precisamente su vinculación con el franquismo y su figura militar fuesen el principal resquemor del pueblo hacia Usted. Y entonces, durante aquella jornada de miedo, en esos momentos cruciales y con su papel final ante los acontecimientos, de repente se granjeó un enorme éxito mediático, y supusieron un gran paso hacia lo que pensamos, era un moderno elemento que traería aire fresco en las estancias del palacio. Estoy segura de que si hubiese habido un hashtag, ese discurso que pronunció hubiera sido un "trending topic". Y poniéndolo en perspectiva, lo fue… ¡Vaya si no!! El momento histórico de esa declaración televisada, fue aplaudido y amplificado por todos. Tanto por los que no tenían idea entonces, (como yo), de los tejemanejes de la situación previa, como los que sí, y que por supuesto se pusieron al lado de los intereses superiores y defendieron su discurso con el silencio que ameritaba para evitar ese cambio de timón que pretendía Usted también, Majestad. Pero de eso nos enteramos mucho más tarde. El futuro democrático estaba en peligro de convertirse en papel quemado. Pero gracias a Usted, que puso freno a los locos deseos de aquellos militares, pudimos tomar aire. Además con aquellas palabras se ganó el sitio perfecto en corazón de millones de españoles, el respeto y hasta el afecto. ¡El salvador de la democracia! Le llamaron, ¿se acuerda? Pero hoy también sabemos que esa lentitud en la salida escondía truco; eran otros intereses que la historia y el periodismo nos ha ido desgranando con el tiempo, los que parecen le obligaron al retraso en su declaración. Aquella espera de tantas horas se cubrieron de incertidumbres Señor. Nos llenamos de preguntas, ¿sabe? ¿Por qué tardó tanto en aparecer y en dar las órdenes? ¿Quién estaba a la cabeza de esa tropelía? ¿Quién iba a ser ese gobierno que se impondría? Con el devenir del tiempo empezamos a conocer una historia sobre un Elefante. Sí, de esos que le gusta tanto a Usted cazar Majestad. Esa persona tenía el sobrenombre de "El Elefante Blanco". ¿Quién era Majestad? Los cientos de informaciones y artículos que fueron sucediéndose en las siguientes décadas no dejan mucha duda. La voces por debajo susurraban que era Usted. Quien insatisfecho con el gobierno de Suárez, primer Presidente de la democracia pretendía, junto a un grupo de militares, según decían las informaciones, dar un cambio de rumbo en el panorama. Pilar Urbano, una de las escritoras y periodistas que ha escrito sobre usted, en su libro "La gran desmemoria. Lo que Suárez olvidó y el Rey prefiere no recordar", lo tiene claro. El Elefante Blanco, era Usted. Según ella afirmaba, don Juan Carlos metió la pata en las conversaciones que tuvo con José Luis de Vilallonga, quien escribió la única biografía autorizada suya, basada en esas charlas con usted. En libro, Usted decía saber desde el primer momento quién era el Elefante Blanco. La periodista continuaba diciendo que Suárez, también había dicho que «sólo dos personas sabían quién era el Elefante Blanco, y yo soy una». Decía Suarez. Por tanto, Si el ex Presidente lo sabía, y desde luego él no lo era, y usted también lo sabía, según le dijo a Vilallonga, y tal y como aparece en las ediciones francesa e inglesa de esa biografía… Blanco y en botella, ¿no? En la versión española del libro de José Luis de Vilallonga, parece que se corrigió ese dato. Según la periodista, porque se hubiese tenido que reabrir el sumario de intento de golpe de estado. Usted lo decía en la primera edición, en la francesa, en donde también decía, que habló con teniente el general Armada varias veces durante esa noche. Este general Armada, por si no lo saben los que me leen, estuvo implicado en ese intento de golpe de Estado. ¡Paso, en nombre del Rey! Gritaba Tejero al entrar en el congreso junto a un grupo de los doscientos guardia civiles que le acompañaron. Mire usted, yo sigo leyendo la noticia de El País y dice que ha presentado una propuesta para una regularización fiscal. Que usted quiere actualizar su declaración con más de medio millón de euros de ingresos, opacos. Fondos ajenos que supuestamente usó junto a algunos familiares, entre el 2016 y 2018, cuando ya no estaba protegido por la inviolabilidad, que recordemos desaparece tras su abdicación en el 2014. Ojo, las noticias tratan de desvincular a su hijo Felipe y a su esposa de cualquier sospecha. Imagino, y así lo dice, que no, que ellos no están dentro de esta investigación. ¡Bueno, algo es algo…! Tal y como va su degradación ante la opinión pública, es un punto a su favor proteger a la familia… Y hablando de la familia. Ahora, encima de todo esto, pareciera que esa fórmula de mantener el silencio, la ha heredado su hijo, quien por cierto no se ha pronunciado aún frente a ese chat de los dinosaurios militares que nos quieren poner, a 26 millones de españoles y entre ellos a mi, en el paredón. ¡Hay que ver, qué vergüenza todo esto! ¡Pobre rey! Creo que le va de mal en peor desde hace años. Su caída y rotura de cadera durante las vacaciones de caza, no sólo le costaron la operación, si no el escándalo al conocer abiertamente sobre su “affaire”, y toda la oleada de informaciones que sacaron aguas turbias a flote y desembocaron en su abdicación. Primero, el lío con su amiga Corinna Larsen, quien por cierto le metió un gol protegiendo 60 millones, que dice que Usted le regaló. ¡Hay que ver qué generoso!. Después de eso, las preguntas. -“¿De dónde saca, “pa” tanto como destaca…?-” que dice la canción. Y así saltaron las alarmas sobre supuestas fortunas desconocidas y fuera de España. ¿Quizá en paraísos fiscales, Majestad? Para finalizar, disculpe el término, con una salida por la puerta falsa, en esa especie de auto exilio a Emiratos Árabes Unidos. Pero si esto era poco, para cerrar este pésimo vodevil, lo hizo en medio de la pandemia. Lo malo Señor, es que para la prensa de hoy, menos temerosa que la de hace 40 años, su armadura es transparente. Según esta nueva información, la hacienda está analizando el escrito presentado, y decidirá próximamente si lo acepta o pide más aclaraciones. Tienen que saber el importe para depurar las multas y si hubiera delitos, se pueda abrir una imputación de evasión fiscal. Para colmo hoy, ya día siete de diciembre que termino esta nota, el asunto le puede perjudicar en su deseo de volver a casa en las Navidades. ¡No! Si es que me da hasta lástima… ¡Pobre…! Lo bueno Majestad es que su declaración, no está relacionada con bienes en el extranjero, sino con el consumos de tarjetas bancarias, que al parecer un amigo suyo y empresario mexicano, un tal Allen Sanginés-Krause, le ha estado dando. ¿En calidad de qué Señor? ¿Donación? ¿Sabía usted que hay que tributarlas? No están justificadas esas entradas según la hacienda por tanto, nuevamente se han disparado las sospechas sobre Usted y también sobre su amigo, el empresario a quien la Fiscalía ha dicho que investigará. Pero lo bueno, dice la noticia, parece ser que a Usted no le preocupan ni los dineros de paraísos fiscales, donde seguramente no podrán averiguar mucho, pues tal y como dicen Ustedes, no hay nada de cierto, y por supuesto nosotros nuevamente le creemos. Y que tampoco le preocupan el supuesto cobro de comisiones ilegales por las obras del AVE a la Meca porque fueron hechos ocurridos antes de 2014, cuando todavía gozaba de inviolabilidad y el proceso ni se abrirá. Y menos parece que le preocupen los escándalos de la Larsen. Total, es una amante despechada… ¡Ay, ay , ay Majestad! ¿No cree que tantas travesuras, han terminado por deteriorar gravemente su figura pública y erosionan de manera grave a la institución, a la que por otro lado siguen queriendo proteger haciendo filas que alejen de la lupa a su hijo y a su nuera? Pero lo triste es que estas cosas ya las hemos visto en la historia de España. Así se protegían los monarcas, cerrando filas, aunque sea a costa de su propia felicidad familiar. ¡Vaya, qué triste! Creí que esas cosas se quedaban en los libros de historia del pasado, veo que no. Y fíjese que yo lo que creo es que para protegerse han ido ejecutando pequeños movimientos sobre el tablero, poco a poco y con la alevosía de la pandemia, para salir de puntillas sin hacer ruido. ¿Ha visto Usted la película Gambito De Dama? Pues eso, se la recomiendo. Un gambito en ajedrez es el ofrecimiento de material a cambio de ventaja en el desarrollo del juego. Así parecen.. Movimientos que preserven la credibilidad y la honorabilidad del hijo. Más que nunca los necesita para perpetuar la especie. Me parece que han estado bien coordinados. Eso creo yo, pero vamos, no lo tome en cuenta, al final de cuentas solo soy una ciudadana más, desconocedora como la mayoría, de lo que se cueza en su casa. Pero sí hemos visto varias cosas que amoscan, ¿sabe? En marzo pasado su hijo Felipe VI dio un comunicado en el que rechaza su herencia, Con ello se aleja de los beneficios de empresas y fundaciones que hubiera podido tener usted y que le quisiera dejar. Vamos que no hay que ser Kasparov para entender. Recuerdo que una de esas fundaciones, Lucum, estaba bajo investigación de la fiscalía. Además en aquella misiva le retiró su asignación del presupuesto del Estado. Blanco y en botella, ¿no? El siguiente movimiento fue cuando Corinna Larsen se puso a despotricar lo más grande… Ahí creo que le invitaron a irse. Eso sí, nos trajo de cabeza…. Se especuló de todo. Pero le salió bien. Ni una filtración de hacia dónde se había ido. Dos semanas tardamos en saberlo. Pues le cuento que mientras ustedes hacían sus jugadas, los españoles no salíamos de nuestra sorpresa e incredulidad. Disculpe que le diga, ¡qué mal quedó! por cierto. Además abrió la puerta a todo tipo de especulaciones, y por supuesto su salida por la puerta de servicio le hicieron ver cuando menos culpable, sin haber podido ni defenderse. Ay!! Majestad… Qué mal… Quizá se le olvidó que el César, además de serlo, debe parecerlo… Qué lejos quedaban ya aquellos años en los que muchos, orgullosamente defendíamos nuestra moderna monarquía. Antítesis creímos, a esas rancias europeas ridículamente conservadoras y herméticas. Durante tantos años, nos regocijamos con sus campechanas salidas del orden establecido. Nos divertía oír sus risas y hasta sus palabrotas. E incluso le hicimos coro cuando mandó callar a Hugo Chávez. ¿Se recuerda? ¡Qué momentazo televisivo tuvo, ¡eh! De verdad que parecía que había conseguido hacer que esta monarquía parlamentaria fuera una combinación perfecta para nuestra democracia. Todo iba sobre ruedas con Usted y su familia. Hasta que empezaron los problemitas con su hija y su yerno Urdangarín, quien calladito sigue en la cárcel. Pero la caída no había hecho más que empezar… Lo triste es que han enseñado la patita con todas estas… digamos así, salidas del tiesto, y al final con la suma de atropellos, nos asaltan aquellas dudas que quisimos olvidar por tantos años. Y yo me pregunto. ¿Estará España dispuesta a seguir asumiendo el coste, a todos los niveles, de una institución y de algunos de sus miembro, que literalmente, están en tela de juicio? ¿En qué nos benefician Ustedes? ¿No habremos superado ya nuestra pubertad democrática como para merecernos comer en la mesa de los mayores? Hay muestras de países demócratas que no necesitan una monarquía, vamos, que ni la han olido siquiera, y son tan felices o infelices en su trayectoria como nosotros. ¿Por qué asumir este desgastante protocolo innecesario? ¡Qué tristeza verle así Majestad! Usted que fue una gloria de España, y llegó a tener una alta reputación y ver en lo que se está quedando… da pena. Un monarca al que respetábamos tanto e incluso protegimos incluso de Usted mismo. Ante Usted todos callábamos y le otorgábamos la presidencia de nuestras íntimas y humildes mesas navideñas durante sus discursos. ¡Qué pena! Porque ahora que le veo con delicado paso de anciano, tiene que ser duro saber que en los libros de historia un día, por penoso y amargo que nos sepa, el punto final de su vida estará manchado por la codicia. ¡Cuánto lo siento Señor!. De verdad, cuánto lo siento; no por usted, sino por nosotros. “Espero tener siempre suficiente firmeza y virtud para conservar lo que considero que es el más envidiable de todos los títulos: el carácter de Hombre Honrado”. -Georges Washington- https://elpais.com/espana/2020-12-06/juan-carlos-i-quiere-regularizar-mas-de-500000-euros-de-ingresos-opacos.html https://elpais.com/espana/2020-12-06/el-rey-emerito-presenta-una-declaracion-para-regularizar-su-situacion-fiscal.html https://elpais.com/elpais/2016/02/18/eps/1455812618_874352.html https://www.bbc.com/mundo/noticias-internacional-49453416 https://elpais.com/hemeroteca/elpais/portadas/1981/02/24/ https://elpais.com/espana/2020-03-15/el-rey-renuncia-a-la-herencia-de-su-padre-y-le-retira-su-asignacion.html https://www.bbc.com/mundo/noticias-internacional-53841839 https://www.huffingtonpost.es/entry/la-crisis-de-los-42_es_5fc79cd7c5b6b47a31ed2d35?ncid=newslteshpmgnews https://www.eldiario.es/politica/secretos-transicion-golpe-congreso_1_3712148.html https://www.elmundo.es/cronica/2014/03/29/53369a7ae2704e2e078b456e.html https://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2006/02/23/espana/1140651449.html Escucha el episodio completo en la app de iVoox, o descubre todo el catálogo de iVoox Originals

Milana Aleksandrovna Vayntrub is an Uzbekistan-born American actress, comedian, and activist. She came to prominence for her appearances in AT&T television commercials as saleswoman Lily Adams from 2013 to 2016, and again in 2020. Millions of refugees seek the one thing you might be taking for granted: a home. The #CantDoNothing movement provides simple ways for you to help. CantDoNothing.org Animism is the belief that objects, places, and creatures all possess a distinct spiritual essence. Potentially, animism perceives all things—animals, plants, rocks, rivers, weather systems, human handiwork, and perhaps even words—as animated and alive. The Stolen Generations (also known as Stolen Children) were the children of Australian Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander descent who were removed from their families by the Australian federal and state government agencies and church missions, under acts of their respective parliaments. As Louis La Rose (Winnebago Tribe of Nebraska) testified: "I think the cruelest trick that the white man has ever done to Indian children is to take them into adoption court, erase all of their records and send them off to some nebulous family ... residing in a white community and he goes back to the reservation and he has absolutely no idea who his relatives are, and they effectively make him a non-person and I think ... they destroy him." Science is nothing like religion. But many people blindly keep repeating that it is. Thus, “Science is the new religion” is the new religion. N.B. philosophers sit on land, without a map, thinking about what it means to have a map, or whether the sea is actually liquid land, or the land is liquid sea. "those who are scientists, or who pretend to be scientists, cling to the mantle of a kind of religious authority. And as anyone who has tried to comment on religion has discovered, there is no such thing as criticism. There is only blasphemy." via Henry Gee is a senior editor of Nature. He is on Twitter at HenryGeeBooks and his book The Accidental Species: Misunderstandings of Human Evolution is published on 21 October by the University of Chicago Press Ganesha, also spelled Ganesh, also called Ganapati, elephant-headed Hindu god of beginnings, who is traditionally worshipped before any major enterprise and is the patron of intellectuals, bankers, scribes, and authors. ... Like a rat and like an elephant, Ganesha is a remover of obstacles. Krishna, Sanskrit Kṛṣṇa, one of the most widely revered and most popular of all Indian divinities, worshipped as the eighth incarnation (avatar, or avatara) of the Hindu god Vishnu and also as a supreme god in his own right. Santería, also known as Regla de Ocha, Regla Lucumí, or Lucumí, is an African diasporic religion that developed in Cuba between the 16th and 19th centuries. It arose through a process of syncretism between the traditional Yoruba religion of West Africa and the Roman Catholic form of Christianity. --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/chrisabraham/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/chrisabraham/support

In this episode we discuss Elizabeth Perez's award-winning book *Religion in the Kitchen: Cooking, Talking, and the Making of Black Atlantic Traditions*. Listen in to learn more about how religious subjectivity is constructed around the process of preparing ritual meals in the Lucumí tradition.

Fatima shares her experiences around being a black woman, Lucumí priest, and therapist. 

Una buena charla con los amigos sobre la actualidad del Atlas, la salida de jugadores, la llegada de Lucumí, el nuevo uniforme, posibles refuerzos, etc.

This is more for the open minded this is just the intro on what topics I want to cover and my testimony on my religion stay tuned this is definitely going to be interesting for those like me who are curious , interested , or are in the Lucumi traditions this was like a trailer on what I want this podcast to be about and other things like motivational stories thanks !!

#010: The conversation continues with Mandisa Amber Wood who is a California Bay Area, artist, dancer, educator, a food justice activist, and a Ph.D. student in the Sustainability Education program at Prescott College. She is a tenure-track faculty member at a local California community college in the Philosophy/Humanities Department. Her courses are grounded in theories and approaches that are inclusive and accessible to those impacted by systems of oppression, while also providing a critical lens for the analysis of structural racism, femicide, and other social issues.  Mandisa incorporates intuitive painting, performance, regenerative and permaculture design, and transformative learning in all of her teachings. Her emergent sacred research focuses on the embodied practices of women who perform indigenous dance forms for personal and collective healing. Mandisa is initiated in the Lucumí tradition; a nature-based spiritual tradition indigenous to West Africa and present throughout the diaspora. She is grateful for the opportunity to travel, teach, and learn in places where love is a key to resilience, wellbeing, and liberation. Points covered in this episode:  Intersectional Feminism Shifting Structural Oppression Cultural Appropriation Resources shared by Mandisa Love vs fear    

#009: Mandisa Amber Wood is a California Bay Area, artist, dancer, educator, a food justice activist, and a Ph.D. student in the Sustainability Education program at Prescott College. She is a tenure-track faculty member at a local California community college in the Philosophy/Humanities Department. Her courses are grounded in theories and approaches that are inclusive and accessible to those impacted by systems of oppression, while also providing a critical lens for the analysis of structural racism, femicide, and other social issues.  Mandisa incorporates intuitive painting, performance, regenerative and permaculture design, and transformative learning in all of her teachings. Her emergent sacred research focuses on the embodied practices of women who perform indigenous dance forms for personal and collective healing. Mandisa is initiated in the Lucumí tradition; a nature-based spiritual tradition indigenous to West Africa and present throughout the diaspora. She is grateful for the opportunity to travel, teach, and learn in places where love is a key to resilience, wellbeing, and liberation. Points covered in this episode:  Intersectional Feminism Shifting Structural Oppression  Cultural Appropriation Resources shared by Mandisa Love vs fear    

El exfutbolista barranquillero analiza el escándalo de Dayro y Lucumí en Atlético Nacional. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this episode T. Susan Chang plays host to interview me about my new deck from Llewellyn – The Orisha Tarot. We talk about my 18 year journey with the Lukumi tradition that brought me to this point. This episode is a deep dive into the how and why of this deck an dthe role the spirits have played in its creation too.  You can see the deck and get it from my website here, Amazon, or at your local bookshop.  Think about how much you've enjoyed the podcast and how many episodes you listened to, and consider if it is time to support the Patreon You can do so here. And you should go see all the good stuff Susan is up to here.  If you want more of this in your life you can subscribe by RSS , iTunes, Stitcher, or email. Thanks for joining the conversation. Please share the podcast to help us grow and change the world.  Andrew You can book time with me through my site here.  Transcription SUSIE: Hello, everybody! You're hearing a different voice as the host of this week's Hermit's Lamp podcast. I'm Susie Chang, friend of Andrew, and Andrew has kindly invited me to come on the show in order to interview him about his new deck, the Orisha Tarot, since he obviously could not interview himself! [laughs] Normally, at the beginning of an interview, what I would do is introduce the guest, but since the guest is the host, I guess I'll just do a very cursory introduction of what I know about my friend, Andrew. As you know, he is the proprietor of The Hermit's Lamp, the store, which is a touchstone for all of us in the tarot community, and he is the voice behind The Hermit's Lamp podcast. He is an artist in his own right and a creator of beautiful works, decks, and he is also a priest in the Lucumí tradition, and we'll be talking about that some more. But the reason that we're here today is to talk about the Orisha Tarot, which is coming out from Llewellyn in September … What day is it?  ANDREW: Basically, today, according to Amazon.  SUSIE: For real! Fantastic! Yeah, this is very exciting. So, I understand decks are already shipping out, and I was also particularly interesting -- interested -- in doing this podcast because we're both Llewellyn authors. I've got a book coming out from Llewellyn on tarot correspondences just next month. So, shout out to Llewellyn for supporting the work of tarot lovers everywhere.  ANDREW: Absolutely. SUSIE: Yeah! So the Orisha Tarot is officially out. Congratulations! ANDREW: Thank you! SUSIE: It's been many years in the making, hasn't it?  ANDREW: Yeah, I mean it's … It's always one of those things. Where do you count that from? You know?  SUSIE: [laughs] ANDREW: I signed my contract for it about two years ago, maybe a little bit less than that. So that's probably as good a time as any. But even at that point I had already made a dozen cards and had spent five or six years prior to that thinking about it and trying to figure out what I wanted to do and how I wanted to do it. So. You know?  SUSIE: Right. And actually, I'd like to back up even further, to the beginning of your story in this tradition. And to find out a little bit. Because it's been about ten years, I think you said? Something like that?  ANDREW: Ten years as a priest.  SUSIE: Mm-hmm.  ANDREW: As of August. It was 2000 when I started getting involved in this tradition. So it's been about 18 years that I've been involved.  SUSIE: Wow. So that's … Really, it's been a long journey for you. And I was listening to your wonderful interview with our friends at the Tarot Visions podcast, and I think you mentioned that you came into it through kind of a circle of friends who were exploring different esoteric traditions, and I kind of wanted to know a little bit more about what drew you. You mentioned that you were, you know, a friend had brought in his own explorations of Lucumí, and I wanted to, first of all, sort of talk a tiny bit about the context of Lucumí, since not everyone will be familiar with it, and also, a little bit more about your attraction to it. Now, as I understand it, Lucumí is a Cuban offshoot of the greater Yoruba African traditional religion, yeah?  ANDREW: So, the story you get will depend a lot on who you talk to. Like many things. Right?  SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: You know, so, at the time of the Atlantic slave trade, Yoruban wasn't really cohesive at all. That whole area was a bunch of city states and so on, right?  SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: So, this idea that there was sort of one cohesive African traditional religion, or ATR, which these things spread from, isn't really historically accurate. You know?  SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: If you came from, you know, the city of Ife, then, you know, your tradition slants in one direction, certain deities are, you know, held above others; if you come from Oyo, then, you know, that's going to have a different set of traditions and sort of a different kind of more primary veneration and tilting towards certain deities over others. If you're down sort of in the coastal parts of kind of western Africa, towards the south end of that sort of prominence, the way in which some of the Orisha are going to manifest, especially the water Orisha, are different than if you're sort of further north, or inland, or in other places. You know, and so … SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: It's important to understand that these sort of … All of these Orisha traditions and their diasporic manifestations, you know, as they found themselves in different countries, throughout the Caribbean and North and South America, they all varied depending on which groups of people were enslaved and brought over, which traditions survived, what happened in relationship to the indigenous culture that was present, you know, in Cuba indigenous culture was sort of pretty much wiped out, so there wasn't much inclusion of that into the traditions, whereas in other parts, you know, especially in South America, you know, some of those cultures continue to sort of live alongside and there's sort of more sharing of ideas. SUSIE: Yeah, it seems like in many of the diasporic manifestations, you see fates that have been heavily syncretized with whatever was going on locally.  ANDREW: Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I think that, you know, the question of syncretization is always an interesting one, you know?  SUSIE: Yeah.  ANDREW: The story that some people like to say is that they were syncretized in order to conceal them and to prevent … SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: And to protect them and to allow them to practice covertly, you know … SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: And I'm sure that that's true in some ways. But also, you know, there's a lot of … In nonwestern approaches to magic and to spirituality, there's often a real sense of "hey, what's that guy good for? What's that spirit …?" SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: "What's that one going to do for me?" Whereas this sort of very practical notion of, you know, you come across somebody and you're like, "well, I read about this guy, what's that saint good for?" SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: And there's the syncretization that happens, for sure, but there's also the notion of like, having more spiritual people in your corner is not a bad idea at all. Right?  SUSIE: Exactly, exactly. ANDREW: And so, so I think the history is interesting to try and unravel, but I think that we'll never really fully understand exactly what was going on with everybody involved.  SUSIE: Exactly. And I think that, you know, people of faith kind of make faith work however they can, right? You know, it's sort of like you'll always have schools of thoughts that try to keep, you know, try to distinguish and separate and go towards a purist mentality in terms of practicing faith, and then there are others who'll say, well, we work with what we've got, you know?  ANDREW: Exactly. SUSIE: Yeah. ANDREW: So, and so, to kind of answer your kind of like, about my lineage … My lineage, as far back as we know it, originates with this woman Monserrate, you know, she's the farthest back that we can trace that, and my lineage originates in Cuba and through those sort of Cuban traditions. So. Variations of the diasporic traditions, for sure.  SUSIE: Right, right. So we're talking about … We're specifically talking about a tradition that came to Cuba through the slave trade.  ANDREW: Exactly, yeah. SUSIE: And do … You actually have some reference to that in, I think, your Ten of Swords card.  ANDREW: Absolutely. SUSIE: Which seems really appropriate, yeah. So, I wanted to know a little bit more about your personal journey, in terms of whether you yourself grew up in any kind of faith community, or whether you were … you know, did you have to rebel against one? did you long to belong to a faith community? What was that like for you and what was discovering this community like for you?  ANDREW: So, I think that one of the best things that my parents did was not raise me with any traditions at all.  SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: My parents weren't particularly religious, you know ... SUSIE: So what did you rebel against? [laughs] ANDREW: I didn't rebel against any- I mean I rebelled against everything. But we'll get to that. But what that meant was, you know, when I said to my mom, I want to go to the psychic fair and find some books on magic, when I was 12, my mom was like, okay. You know, when I like, picked out Alistair Crowley, she was like, sure, go ahead.  SUSIE: Yeah. ANDREW: So, that meant that I like had a lot of space to really get involved and think about other things, you know?  SUSIE: Yeah. ANDREW: You know, other than sort of when my parents split up and we started going to Anglican church, mostly I think because my mom wanted some community … SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: I didn't really have a lot of connection or experience with any kind of organized religion. But what happened was, when I was 14, I almost died in a car accident.  SUSIE: Right.  ANDREW: And after that I wanted to understand everything. And so, I didn't rebel against anything as such, but what I really wanted to know was, like, what does this all mean? Right? Like all of it. You know. At that point I'd already been reading tarot for a year … SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: I'd already been studying Crowley for a couple of years. It was already really invested in sort of a magical world view. And at that point then I just started reading everything I could get my hands on, right? So I'm like in grade 9 and 10, and reading Nietzsche and … SUSIE: Sure. ANDREW: Picking out, you know, people who can talk about these things. The youth group at the church was run by an ex-Jesuit, and so I would like corner him and be like "hey, tell me about this, tell me about that, tell me about this," and for the most part, people would indulge me and have conversations with me about it, you know?  SUSIE: Mm-hmm. Was there another organized religion that you were drawn to? Before Lucumí?  ANDREW: No. I mean, Crowley's work. You know?  SUSIE: Yes.  ANDREW: For me it was basically all about Crowley's work.  SUSIE: And you were in the OTO? ANDREW: Yeah. When I was in my ... It wasn't until much later though. It wasn't until I was, you know, well into my 20s that I actually even considered … I was like, oh, maybe the OTO exists here in Toronto. Maybe I could find people. Mostly I just practiced independently and pursued and tried to talk to people. SUSIE: Right.  ANDREW: Yeah. And then basically I left the OTO and the Armed Solace, which was another initiatory group, and moved into practicing Lucumí, you know? That was my journey.  SUSIE: Yeah, yeah. And it's been, as you said, like an 18-year journey at this point. And, so that's something I wanted to sort of ask you about, in terms of doing the artwork, telling the stories, introducing the wider world to this tradition. You know, often when we are talking about faiths we didn't grow up in, you know, there's this question of whether it's your story to tell, or whether, you know, at what point do you become a representative? And so that's a question I have for you, at what point did you feel that you were invested enough or, you know, that you had a strong enough sense of belonging to be able to bring this to other people?  ANDREW: Sure. So, there's a whole bunch of pieces to that answer. SUSIE: Mm-hmm. It's a complex one. [laughing] ANDREW: Yeah! We'll start with this. When you … When you become a priest, right? You become initiated into a lineage, right? So, you know, and when we talk about ancestors, the word we use most of the time is Egun. Right? We mean Egun to mean, ancestors by blood, and ancestors by initiation, right?  SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: And so, you know, my Egun are those priests of the Orishas, going back to Montserrate and beyond, you know, and they're lost to history beyond that. And so, part of the conversation for me is, this is my lineage, this is my, these are my ancestors at this point, right? And this is something that we take pretty seriously within the tradition, right? Initiation and lineage are really significant. SUSIE: Right.  ANDREW: And so that's part of the thing. Part of it is, although my parents did not practice this tradition, I am initiated into this lineage in a traditional way.  SUSIE: So, so there's a difference here between blood lineage and spiritual lineage.  ANDREW: But the word does not differentiate. We don't differentiate, right? So, if you … We could … You could get a reading, and, your traditional reading, and your reading could come in a good way or a bad way, depending on what's going on with you, from the Egun, right?  SUSIE: Right, right.  ANDREW: And when we're divining, if it's possible, we want to mark who that is, and we would ask, ancestors from the lineage, and ancestors from the blood line, and depending on what the reading came out as, it would guide us. And we could narrow it down, and be like, "Oh, yeah, the ancestors are upset with you, and in this case it's someone from your blood family, or in some other case it's somebody from your initiatory lineage," but we don't differentiate, the word means the same, right?  SUSIE: Yes, I seem to remember reading something this past week about the idea that your, your, they're sort of one set, one bloodline sort of over one shoulder and spiritual guidance over the other, but they sort of combine and you need both. And I guess, you know, speaking about the outlook and cosmology of the faith, would it fair to say that, you come into this religion, but the religion itself proceeds from the assumption that everybody, no matter where you come from, no matter who your parents, or grandparents etc. were, has a relationship, or a potential relationship they haven't yet realized, with the Orisha?  ANDREW: I don't think that that's actually true.  SUSIE: Okay. So that's what I'm trying to get to the bottom of here.  ANDREW: Okay. Before we come to Earth, we choose our destiny. We choose our Ori, right? Ori is sort of, not easily translated into one thing, but if you think of it as sort of your guardian angel, your destiny, and your higher self, all as one entity, that's probably a reasonable set of points to make sense of it, for people who have those ideas already.  SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: And when you choose your destiny, before you come to Earth, it's sealed, right?  SUSIE: Right.  ANDREW: And so, we don't know what all it entails before we come, but if it's part of your destiny to get initiated into the Orisha tradition then opportunities will present themselves for that. It's not to say that you couldn't force them otherwise, but those wouldn't be in alignment with your destiny. And really, when we're talking about sort of initiation, and sort of connection, and those kinds of things, they really all ought to be dictated by either divination, or dictated by Orisha in possession of people, right?  SUSIE: Yes.  ANDREW: It's not really, you know. There are many people who will come, people will come and Orishas are like, "yeah, okay, we'll help you," right?  SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: Or the people will come, and they'll be like, "no, you should go do something else," right?  SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: Either direction, go over that way, go look at these people, you know, like go look at these other traditions. It's definitely not for … It's not meant for everybody, per se, and it's not closed in any, you know, in any particular way, although certain houses and certain, you know, lineages, might be more closed to outsiders than others, based on a whole bunch of different factors, but … SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: It's much more so that, you know, if it's part of your destiny the opportunity will arise, if it's not, then, you know, you might run into it, but they might say, no, you're good, go to the other side.  SUSIE: Right. Well, this is interesting to me because I've noticed that there seem to be a lot of people who are clearly didn't grow up within the culture who have become drawn to this religion or some form of it, some form of the faith, and, you know, taken it on. And, it seems as though there is, you know, a certain openness to those who commit themselves, whether or not they grew up or had family or, you know, understood the culture. Right?  ANDREW: Yeah, I mean I think that, I think that there are opportunities definitely for people to engage and connect with these traditions. And there are definitely practitioners around who are, you know, open to people who didn't grow up in these traditions and so on, for sure, right.  SUSIE: Right, right.  ANDREW: That's definitely a thing, and you know, I mean that, I think one of the things I see that's going on is that, certain people seem like they're looking for tradition, right? They're looking for … They're kind of doing something that doesn't have a long living history, and they're kind of looking backwards for, or looking around for those things that do, you know?  SUSIE: Yeah. ANDREW: I think that's part of why the Tarot de Marseilles is sort of resurfacing. SUSIE: Right, right.  ANDREW: You know, it's, I think that it's why the Orisha traditions are shifting and coming forward more. You know?  SUSIE: Right. That's one of the things that … I guess that's why I was asking you so much about your own background in terms of, you know, working independently versus belonging, right? Because I think that that's something that a lot of us struggle with, especially those of us who grew up, you know, in an era where religious community isn't something that one takes for granted.  ANDREW: Mm-hmm. SUSIE: Yeah. So anyway, I think that we should probably turn a little bit to the work itself.  ANDREW: Well, let me finish answering … Cause we started with this question of me and sort of, you know, doing this deck, right?  SUSIE: Mm-hmm.  ANDREW: You know, sort of … And we kind of started talking about the ancestral piece and drifted away, and there are a couple of other things that I want to sort of … SUSIE: Okay, good.  ANDREW: So I mean, one of the things, like I did a bunch of things around creating and starting this process, and getting permission before I started this process, and certainly one of them was sitting with my elders and talking about what I wanted to do, and, you know, getting advice from them.  SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: And certainly part of it was asking the Orishas themselves, asking Elegua for, you know, his blessing to proceed with this project.  SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: And also, you know, sort of sitting down with people and sort of showing my art with, you know, with different people and people of color and so on to kind of consult with my choices around representations and so on, so.  SUSIE: Absolutely, absolutely. ANDREW: I really wanted to, you know, you can never please anybody, and I'm sure there'll be some people who'll be upset by the deck, and well, you know, that's life. Right? But … SUSIE: Right. But it sounds as though you have a lot of support. At least within the community you have access to for the work that you undertook. ANDREW: Exactly. SUSIE: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Cool. So I wanted to talk a little bit about making a tarot deck, approaching a tarot deck, coming out of the various traditions you come out of. So I know that you started out with Crowley and the Thoth deck -- or, I know you pronounce it "Toth," [laughing] and also that your primary commitment as a reader for quite a while has been the Marseilles deck. ANDREW: Mm-hmm. SUSIE: So, how … Why did it seem like a natural choice to you to translate or to represent what you know from Orisha as a tarot deck? You know, I think a lot of people would say, well, you know, since there isn't an obvious 78 card structure, you know, number of deities, all the sort of correspondences that tend to underlie at least the Golden Dawn-derived decks, or the general tradition of tarot reaching back to the 15th century, you know, why, why do a tarot deck and not something more free form like an oracle deck?  ANDREW: Well, because, one of the reasons why I made this deck was because I wanted to create a bridge between the people who have traditional experience with the Orishas, and people who have experience with the traditional tarot structure.  SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: And I wanted to use that … those two pieces as a way of creating a bridge so that people could sort of have more understanding of each other. And of what's going on, right?  SUSIE: Yeah, yeah.  ANDREW: And so, I really, you know, I mean, I've got nothing against oracle decks, I mean I released one earlier in the year. But, in trying to think about something as large and expansive as the Orisha traditions, it really … Having a clear structure, like the tarot structure, allowed me to frame and set the conversation in a way that allowed me to finish it [laughing] cause otherwise … SUSIE: [laughing] Right, it's ... otherwise, how do you know when it's done? [laughing] ANDREW: Yeah, right? I mean, we divine with, you know, upwards of 256 different signs.  SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: Each of those signs is as complicated or as a trump card, or as sophisticated as a trump card … SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: and then there's, you know, depending on who you ask, you know, a bunch of primary Orishas and maybe, you know, like even hundreds if you start getting into different paths and roads, it can expand infinitely in every direction, right? So.  SUSIE: Mm-hmm. I'm curious in whether there's much crossover between the two communities, that you've noticed. I mean tarot, and Orisha.  ANDREW: Sure, lots of people. I know lots of people who are initiated. You know, I mean, that sort of … syncretic piece, kind of "what can I do with this?", you know, that continues to be a problem with a lot of Orisha practitioners' lives, right?  SUSIE: Yeah. ANDREW: It's more purely, just the Lucumí Orisha stuff. Many people practice some combination of, you know, Paulo Moyumbe, and espiritismo, and card reading, and, you know, other things, depending on who they are and what they feel is important and what they have access to. So there's not like … There's not a lot of hard rules … SUSIE: Yeah.  ANDREW: About the Orisha tradition. Certainly not the tradition I practice.  SUSIE: Right.  ANDREW: I mean, definitely don't mix them in one ceremony. SUSIE: But it's okay if you practice them separately.  ANDREW: If you go to church on Sunday, and then you tend your ancestral Boveda, and then you have some Orisha, and you go between them, depending on what you feel and need, it depends on where you go, it's a really common experience for a lot of people. So.  SUSIE: Yeah, yeah, I'm glad you addressed that, cause that's something I was really curious about. You know, you don't dilute your practice by sort of mixing a bit of everything. On the other hand, you're one person, and, you know, if you're drawn to different practices, then perhaps you're drawn to different practices for different needs.  ANDREW: Sure. And if the Orisha don't want you doing that, they'll tell you! For sure. SUSIE: [laughing] Right.  ANDREW: They'll be like, "stop it!"  SUSIE: That's not cool. Yeah.  ANDREW: Yeah.  SUSIE: So, a little bit about what people can expect when they're approaching the cards. Now, it's not like there's a particular Orisha per card. There's Orisha in some representations of some cards, some cards have concepts from Lucumí, some cards have one of the Odu on them, so, sort of like, how did you approach how you wanted to impart all of this information structurally into the deck?  ANDREW: Mm-hmm. So, I really, I wanted to try and avoid what I had seen done in other decks in the past.  SUSIE: Mm-hmm.  ANDREW: Not because it's wrong per se, but because it doesn't give the conversation enough meat. Right? You know a lot of decks would say, well, Shango is the king, and therefore, he's the emperor, and so when I draw the Emperor I'm going to draw Shango.  SUSIE: Right.  ANDREW: And that's fair, you know, I mean Shango is the emperor, he's the king of the Orishas.  SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: But, but there's a lot more to it than that. What does that mean? In what way does kingship or power in that way show up in a variety of different contexts, and what are the different conversations that we could have, right?  SUSIE: Exactly. ANDREW: And so, when I was sort of working with the trump cards, I wanted to embody the ideas that I see being behind, you know, behind the cards themselves: spiritual authority, earthly authority, fortune and chance, you know, like different things. I wanted to sort of embody those bigger ideas and kind of avoid kind of just a straight, this symbol = this symbol here … SUSIE: Yeah, I call that the matchy match. [laughing] ANDREW: Right? Exactly. SUSIE: Yeah, yeah, yeah.  ANDREW: When I was looking at the number cards, which for me often represent sort of more the what and the how of life, right? I wanted to kind of focus more on stories, and those things that tend to be more about particular patakis, or stories or ideas from the lives of the Orishas and the lives of their practitioners and where that kind of overlaps and integrates with those numbered cards. And then when I got to the court cards, I wanted to, I wanted to really kind of explore the way the court cards can be sort of seen to line up with roles people might play in the community. Right?  SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: So, when we're looking at those, we see … One of them, the Aleyo, the new person who's just coming to this tradition, who's ready to learn, and they're making an offering to, you know, the butcher, who is a very skilled and important part of the ceremonies in the community, to the elders who run the ceremonies, and the singers and the drummers and the artists and all of those things, so I kind of went through and sifted those ideas into where I felt they aligned with the court cards best. SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: So, the court cards then become really positions or roles one might find oneselves in, in religion, and over time, with the traditional idea of the court cards, over time we might [00:29:27]. Over time we might be, you know, we might play this role in this community and that role in another community. And so on. So. SUSIE: Right, right. And I think hat underscores what I think sometimes we forget about court cards, which is that we can be any of them, and we are any and all of them at different times.  ANDREW: Mm-hmm. SUSIE: So, about that … A word you brought up just before, which I think is pretty important for us to discuss, the word Pataki, the story. So can you tell us a little bit about how that is contextualized within the faith and also, we should mention, that that is the name of the book that goes with the deck, Patakis of the Orisha Tarot. Yeah. ANDREW: So, patakis are the stories of the Orishas and their practitioners that are meant to be instructive, right?  SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: The word parable, you know, is a way to maybe give a different word for it in English.  SUSIE: Right.  ANDREW: And, you know, especially when we're divining, right, we'll often give a proverb, and we'll often, you know, tell a story about the Orishas. And, this is part of this oral tradition of it, that we are expressing these ideas in ways that allow us to tell the person things, in ways that are easier to hold onto, easier to integrate, that give us some meat, rather than just saying, "hey, don't do this thing," which we might also say … SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: We might also tell the story of when one of the Orishas did that thing and what happened to them.  SUSIE: Yes.  ANDREW: "Oh yeah yeah, okay I see that. I shouldn't do that thing, cause this is gonna happen," right? There'll be a problem.  SUSIE: There's something about these stories that's so human and relatable, right? You know? I mean is it not the case that the Orisha themselves were at one time human or before they became more than human?  ANDREW: Well, that's a … That's a contested … Somewhat contested point of view. Many Orisha are what's known as urumole. They came from heaven. Right? They originated purely from spirit.  SUSIE: Mm-hmm.  ANDREW: There are Orishas who are considered deified ancestors, Shango being one of them, you know, Oduduwa being another one. You know, there are these spirits, these people who led great lives and led their communities and so on, and became, you know, deified after their death. The question that comes up in those conversations, then, also is were those lives that Orisha descending and living on Earth for a period of time?  SUSIE: Yes, right. Yeah. ANDREW: So, I mean, I think that it … I think that there's no clear answers to that. But in general, the majority of the Orishas did not start as human, but originated as part of the unfolding of creation, and then came to sort of live these lives and, you know, have these stories and experiences that we now understand. And also, when we're talking about some of these stories, I think that we also need to understand that some of them, and there's no easy historical way to say which ones are not, but a good chunk of them were probably stories about priests of those spirits.  SUSIE: I see.  ANDREW: Made these mistakes in their lives. It's like, "Oh yeah, you're Bill, the priest of Obatala who lived down the road …" SUSIE: [laughing] ANDREW: "Remember when you did this?" "Yeah, I remember," right?  SUSIE: [laughing] Right, right.  ANDREW: And those stories become, you know, part of the myth, right? Part of the lexicon of these traditions.  SUSIE: Yes. I guess what makes me wonder, you know, what their relationship with mortality and humanity is, is because these stories, the emotions and the sort of currents that they represent are things that anyone can relate to. You know, there's jealousy, there's anger, there's, you know, there's infidelity, there's theft, there are things that you don't sort of in the same way that in the Greek mythology you see people, you see deities acting badly, right? Or in ways that show that they can make mistakes too.  ANDREW: Definitely. One of my elders likes to say, you know, "They made those mistakes, you don't need to, okay?"  SUSIE: [laughing] ANDREW: Right? But, you know. We're all human. We're gonna learn or we're not gonna learn. But we'll learn one way or another. Right?  SUSIE: Right, right. So, a little bit more about deck structure. So, first of all, I noticed immediately that there were some sorts of ways in which your experience with tarot informed the deck. First of all, there's a little bit of a thought sensibility, in that your Strength and Justice are ordered in the way that the Thoth deck and the Marseilles deck do, rather than the Rider-Waite-Smith. I noticed that you have ordered it wands, cups, swords, disks, fire, water, air earth, which is a very hermetic thing. And the very fact that you call them disks also comes out of the Thoth tradition. But, I also wanted to know a little bit, for example, of ... I can sort of understand where the structure for the majors comes from, but what I wanted to know a little bit more is about the pips. Because your primary reading background comes from, as far as assigning meaning to the pips, I guess would be based in Thoth originally? I wondered if there was sort of more relationship …. Would someone who comes from a Rider-Waite-Smith tradition instantly recognize, or from a Golden Dawn tradition, instantly recognize the concepts in each of these minor cards?  ANDREW: Well, I mean I think so. [laughing] SUSIE: [laughing] I can tell you that I certainly did. ANDREW: I mean, here's my hope about this deck. You know?  SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: I mean, so, obviously, I started with the Thoth deck, and I read with that deck for many years, exclusively. But I also read a ton of books on tarot, right, during that time. And had a lot of conversations, especially once I started branching out in the communities more, and you know, I mean, I've read lots of books on the Waite-Smith tradition, and, you know, all of that sort of and a bunch of that older stuff, you know?  SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: Hermetic or otherwise. So when I was, when I was creating this deck, there are … People who are reading the book, you'll come to some spots, you'll hit a few cards where it's like, you know, in the Marseilles tradition, people often think of this card this way, and I'll give a little bit of context, and then when you go and read it, it'll make a ton of sense.  SUSIE: Yeah.  ANDREW: And, that's really mostly because I could have, you know, I could have written ten times as much about these cards as I did. But Llewellyn said, you can only make the book [cross-laughter [00:37:02]  SUSIE: Right, right.  ANDREW: And, and I really endeavored to sort of kind of hold what I see as kind of the middle of the road on these meanings, right? I mean I didn't … the numbering is the numbering, and to me ultimately the numbering … I mean, this might be blasphemy from a hermetic point of view, but to me the numbering of the trump cards is really largely irrelevant.  SUSIE: I think it's arbitrary, yeah.  ANDREW: It's a historical precedent that's [inaudible at [00:37:30]. SUSIE: Although, although, Andrew, I think it's important that you made Elegua the Fool. I think, you know. ANDREW: For sure!  SUSIE: Yeah. As the Orisha who comes first.  ANDREW: For sure, yeah, yeah. But, but, you know, choosing Justice to be this number or that number, I'm like, eh. I almost never read the numbers when I read cards, because I just see the cards, right?  SUSIE: Right, right.  ANDREW: So, you know, this deck is really meant to be, you know, a kind of relatively even representation of tarot as it exists today, right?  SUSIE: Yeah, yeah.  ANDREW: And so, there's not … none of it's slanted too much one way or the another. There's no like "Well, you need to know that Crowley called this card the Aeon means, you know the goddess Nuit means this... SUSIE: Right.  ANDREW: It's just not like that at all, right?  SUSIE: Yeah, I mean, my sensation as I was getting to know the deck was really that it was about the stories, and which story fit which card best.  ANDREW: Yeah. It's one of the things that I actually really … I wouldn't have guessed that I would have felt this was so important, but the feedback that I've gotten from the people who've gotten their books already, or gotten their copies already, who I shared advance copies with and stuff, is … including some non-tarot people who just are reading it because they really like me.  SUSIE: [laughing] ANDREW: The feedback I keep getting is that the material is really accessible. And to me, that's like a really important thing. You know? I didn't want to make this difficult, I avoided using as much jargon, or like, you know, Lucumí words, as much as possible. I really, you know, I didn't get into hermetic philosophy particularly anywhere. You know there are all these branches and wings of my own personal experiences and practice, that I just brought them all down to the dining hall, I was like, "All right! Let's all have lunch to talk about stuff in a general way." SUSIE: [laughing] ANDREW: You know, it's hard to make that happen, so.  SUSIE: Right. Well I think that, you know, I think it's really important for anyone coming to this deck to get to know the book, to read the book, really read the book, because it's, you know, it's 350 pages, it's real, it's got every single page not only has a story that's associated with the card, but also sort of breaks down the symbols that you included in the card, what its divinatory meaning might be, and sort of what the advice might be that goes with it. And I found that incredibly helpful in terms of, like, you know, if I came across a card where my own sort of tarot background wasn't making it immediately obvious to me what you were trying to do, I could just go to the book and it was really clear, you know, like within a minute. So, I think that it's … This is one of those things where … And I generally am not a person who believes that readers always have to go to the book, but I think it is really enriching and helpful to contextualize using what you wrote for this deck.  ANDREW: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think unless somebody has a strong living practice with like, you know, with a traditional Orisha practice, yeah, it might be hard to start just by looking at it … SUSIE: Yeah, yeah.  ANDREW: Most people who come from those traditions and read cards, as well, then maybe they don't need the book as much, you know. It's always interesting as I share the images on the, you know, on social media and stuff, I get, you know, priests jumping on the thing, and like, "how you choose to represent this here! it's perfect!" you know? SUSIE: [laughing] right. ANDREW: They just get it, right? Because they have both of those pieces. But it's so nice to see people be moved to see themselves and to see the tradition in this way, which is really gratifying.  SUSIE: Mm-hmm, Mm-hmm. Before we move off structure and start talking a little bit more about the art and the specific cards, is there a sort of through line in each suit that we should be looking for? Something that's going on in wands only, something that's going on in cups or swords or disks?  ANDREW: That was … That was a notion that I abandoned along the way. You know, in making a deck there always comes this point where the reality check steps in, and you're like, this is the limit of what I can do, you know.  SUSIE: Yeah, yeah.  ANDREW: And the sort of the idea that there was sort of one through line for each set of suits, I didn't really, I couldn't really find it, and you know there are a couple other ideas about levels of detail and symbolic representations that I just realized I'd be spending another five years like hand-drawing beaded things all day… SUSIE: [laughing] ANDREW: I'm like, that can't happen.  SUSIE: Right, and if … I mean there are certainly color and number correspondences you could have worked with but, by forcing it into you know, existing tarot structure or hermetic structure I think you would have been doing something that was not necessarily conducive to the most rich environment of reading these cards. ANDREW: Exactly. SUSIE: You know what I mean? Yeah, although, I'm looking at … I've sorted it out, separated my deck out, Ace, Cups Swords, sorry, Wands, Cups, Swords, I'm looking at the Aces, and there's definitely, I get at least just from my background, I get an elemental feeling off of those cards, you know, a fire, water, air, earth feeling, and even if that's not something that you intended to do or carried throughout the deck, there's still something there, I think. ANDREW: For sure. I mean, in making this deck it's definitely … A lot of stuff just emerged in the creative process. And although I spent a lot of time thinking and writing and making notes about what went where and why and so on, when I sat down to make the cards, a lot of stuff just emerged as part of that process, you know, from the news, from the creativity, by chance or whatever, my own conscious formulated it, so there's a lot of stuff in there that happened as I was making the cards, it wasn't necessarily fully thought out … SUSIE: But which is just part of you, as a reader and a practitioner. ANDREW: Yeah. I mean, you spend 32 years working with the tarot, right?  SUSIE: [laughing] ANDREW: It's a lot of ideas in the back of the brain there that are trying to come out in one way or another.  SUSIE: Right. So, let's talk a little bit about the way the cards look for those people who haven't been lucky enough to pick up their decks yet. It's a gorgeous production, first of all, I think you, you know … the artwork's just stunning, and Llewellyn did a great job, I think, as well. First of all it's a borderless deck, which, thank you! [laughing] That's …  ANDREW: Llewellyn let me do something that they had never done before, which was: all of the titles are handwritten.  SUSIE: Yeah! Yeah! ANDREW: [crosstalking [00:44:55] to the cards. They're not obscured, they're easy enough to see when you're looking … SUSIE: You can find them.  ANDREW: [crosstalking] Off of the bottom. They fit in more with the artwork, so it's easier to kind of just look at the artwork, or just look for the title when you need to.  SUSIE: Right.  ANDREW: That was something that we had a bunch of conversations with …  SUSIE: I think it was a brilliant choice. Because, you know, it really foregrounds the story of the art. The art fills the frame, you know, everything about it allows you to immerse yourself in what's going on in that picture, and then secondarily you, you know, check out whatever title it was so you can sort of match it up with your own tarot knowledge. But I really appreciated that and I'm really glad that they made that decision and you, you know, suggested it. And also, the colors are so saturated and so bold. So the texture and look that you were going for was based on Gwash, right?  ANDREW: Well, so, actually, what I was … So, I used to paint in Gwash a lot, before I had kids. But, you know, having kids, and having a space to set up art, you know, a small, urban space, isn't really that easy, right?  SUSIE: Right.  ANDREW: So certainly, that's a piece of my sensibility and my aesthetic, but part of what I was really looking for was, you know, starting, it's hard to date now, but starting quite a while ago, I went from being super structured and really trying to sort of make everything perfect, to really kind of moving to a more gestural and looser way of working. And so, you know, this kind of comes out of that, you know, sort of move away from you know, sort of pursuing absolute realism to pursuing something else. And then, the other piece of the aesthetic is, you know, I wanted to include different pieces of symbolism, but I didn't want to make it look like the Thoth deck where there are so many symbols that you don't really know what to look at sometimes.  SUSIE: Yes, yes.  ANDREW: And so, one of the things that I decided along the way was, you know, there's a lot of use of textiles, especially in Africa and west Africa, and the Orisha traditions, there's a lot of use of textiles in making thrones, in making ceremonial outfits, you know, in making panuelos, which are these elaborate cloths that we put on top of the Orisha sometimes. And so I wanted to kind of have a reference to that without trying to like emulate it or create like, recreate specific patterns, but use that visual idea to create a space for that symbolic language to hold, right?  SUSIE: Yes.  ANDREW: For the use of number, and through whatever other symbols got added to those designs and so on. So.  SUSIE: Yeah, I really picked up on the fact that the design sensibility behind this had that sort of sense of, you know, scope and flow and bold lines that you get in textile. And, you know, that's not something you always see in tarot, and so it was really kind of a relief to the eye to sort of not get too, I don't know, bound up in the busy?  ANDREW: mm-hmm. SUSIE: Yeah. I think what we see is sort of a looseness of the line, and … But at the same time a real exactness in terms of what symbols you wanted to portray and the way that you foregrounded them in each card. So, so, you did this actually on an iPad, right?  ANDREW: I did, yeah. I did all of this digitally. I've been working pretty much exclusively digitally for the last five or six years now, I guess, ever since …  SUSIE: Yeah. And does that have to do with being busy, being a parent, you know, just trying to live life in addition to being an artist?  ANDREW: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean I don't have a studio space, you know, I don't have … Toronto is apparently one of the most expensive cities in the world to live in, thanks for that, whoever's responsible for that … SUSIE: [laughing] ANDREW: But space is certainly at a premium. And, you know, the only space where I maybe could do more studio type work is at the shop, and I already spend lots of time at the shop seeing clients and doing other stuff. I don't really want to be at work even if it's sort of as a creative outlet. And the iPad, you know, it's always with me, and when I was making this deck , I would just be like, oh, I've got an hour, time to work on one of the cards a bit. You know?  SUSIE: Yeah. ANDREW: Here's some writing. Or whatever. It's just, it's always at hand, it's super portable, and especially, I got an iPad Pro, like one of the big ones, and an Apple pencil, which finally I was able to make happen through the process and you know, it's the best thing ever, it's just … SUSIE: Yeah, and if you get interrupted, you can just save it, and pick it up later.  ANDREW: And I'm sure, like from a production point of view too, you can work in layers, like in Photoshop … SUSIE: Yeah. ANDREW: It's a real treat. So all the backgrounds are their own layers and all the symbols SUSIE: That's great, yeah.  ANDREW: The line work symbols and stuff. So if I make a mistake, if I change my mind later … SUSIE: Right, right. Plus it gives you more freedom. I mean if you're doing a background you don't want to just stop to make room for the foreground, right?  ANDREW: Right? Yeah. All also, I just sent all the Photoshops to Llewellyn, and they asked me if they could take some of them apart and use pieces for making the box and other stuff, which they did, which is fantastic. I'm so delighted with it. It just, it allows for a variety of options in a way that traditional mediums just don't, you know?  SUSIE: Yeah, I was really excited to realize that you did this in a digital format like that just because I didn't know that you could create art like this in that way and have it come out looking so good. You know? ANDREW: Mm-hmm. SUSIE: And the other thing is that I just, I thought it was really funny, that just practically speaking, that it made so much sense for you. This is one of my hobby horses, the idea of just how difficult it is to be both a parent and a practitioner, you know, just to live your life and try to do this work is a constant struggle. Like, you know, you're in the middle of a banishing ritual and some kid is like, coming through saying, Mom, I missed the bus! ANDREW: Yeah! SUSIE: I mean, it's like it's every day, you know, trying to make that work is tricky for a lot of us. So I'm glad you found a way to make this happen.  ANDREW: Me too.  SUSIE: Okay, so I'd love to, if you feel like it, I'd love to talk a little bit about specific cards. If you could just give me a second, I have to plug … My laptop's going to run out of charge. I just have to plug it in real quick. ANDREW: Yeah. SUSIE: Just, be right there. [pause] Okay, we're good. And I can strip that out of the tape, later on, if you want. Okay. So, let's talk about a couple majors. I wanted to return to the Fool card, cause I think that's super important, where you have Elegua, who is, I guess, you know I don't want to make the mistake of trying to do too much equivalency here, but he is the one who makes communication possible as I understand it.  ANDREW: Yeah. Elegua is the Orisha we speak to first in every ceremony, because he opens and closes the ways, and Elegua is all of the communication everywhere, on every single level, right. If we think about the communication between every cell in your body is that communication between the parts of the universe, you know, nothing exists or could happen without Elegua being there to facilitate that transfer of information from one place to another.  SUSIE: Right. Right. And so, I think, you know, that's what makes it so important and so appropriate that he's the first card in the deck. You have to, even to open your mouth, to gather the air to speak, you have to be there, right, although he also has a presence in a number of other cards as well. And what people will see, when they look at it, is, I guess the, a common representation of Elegua is the kind of stone or concrete head with the cowrie shells embedded in it, right?  ANDREW: Mm-hmm. Yeah, when people … A common solution, a relatively common solution to troubles in people's lives is to receive what's referred to as the Warriors … SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: Which is Elegua, Ogun and Ochossi. It's an initiation that you don't have to be a priest to have. Anybody can receive this if it's marked or required. And they come into your life to help you fight your problems and overcome your obstacles and so on. And what there's actually, people are really accustomed to seeing these cement heads with the cowrie shells, but traditionally depending on your lineage, Elegua is … they have marked the path of Elegua, and there are many ways in which Elegua might be made. But I chose to make the one that people understand the most because I wanted it to be somewhat familiar to people, for sure.  SUSIE: Right, and this is actually a symbol that ordinary people might have in their homes, right?  ANDREW: Maybe.  SUSIE: Yeah, yeah. Well, just real quick, after I got your deck, I had the craziest dream, where I dreamed that I got up and I went outside. And this was around midnight. And the UPS truck comes, [laughing] and gives me a package with my name on it, and I open it and I suddenly start to feel really strange like I'm high or I've taken something or ingested some kind of substance, like, just through opening the package. And then I was instantly transported into some kind of rite that was going on in my dining room. And Elegua was there. [laughing] And I thought this was, obviously this is not, I knew almost nothing before this week about this tradition, but, and I certainly have no way of knowing what significance that had or what, you know I certainly can't speak for the tradition in any way, but I thought it was, so interesting that, you know, my dream maker chose to take the delivery of your deck to me as this kind of mind-altering frame-shifting event. and then introduce, you know, this personification of communication, the opener of the ways, into the dream.  ANDREW: Yup. Indeed. SUSIE: So I was very grateful for that experience. Okay. The only other major I really wanted to make sure we talked about was the Priestess card.  ANDREW: Mm-hmm. SUSIE: Because it's not what people would ordinarily expect to see in a Priestess card, and I thought you could talk a little bit about what we're looking at and how it relates to the High Priestess we know and love.  ANDREW: Mm-hmm. So, this is actually one of the cards that gave me the biggest trouble.  SUSIE: Mm-hmm.  ANDREW: I spent a lot of time working on this card, they're a bunch of drawings that got scrapped along the way, because I was just like, no, nope, no, no, no, that's not gonna cut it, that's too simple, that's too this, that's too whatever, right?  SUSIE: Mm-hmm.  ANDREW: You know, so what we see in the Priestess card, is we see a bunch of cowrie shells, right?  SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: And the dillogun, or the cowrie shells, are you know one of the traditional tools of divination. For olocha, for priests in the way that I'm a priest, it's the way in which we speak with the Orishas. And, when we divine with the shells, we pray, and we invoke an opening with Elegua or whoever, for an Odu, for a sign, like a, the idea almost like a card to sort of … But those energies, those Odu, are the living unfolding of the universe, right?  SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: So, they represent all of the knowledge that was and is and all of the possible knowledge of the future, or the possible unfoldings of the future. And so, those energies that arrive when we do a reading, and come to play in the life of the person who gets the reading done … It's actually a serious ceremony to get a reading.  SUSIE: Yeah. ANDREW: It alters the course of your life, right? And, you know when we think of the Priestess or the Papess, right?  SUSIE: Mm-hmm.  ANDREW: One of the things that we can talk about is knowledge, right? And it's deep metaphysical knowledge, right?  SUSIE: Right. Which isn't readily accessible to you at a surface level.  ANDREW: And, when we think about the Hierophant or the Pope as sort of the outer face of spirituality, the High Priestess is the inner face. She's the inner mystery of that, right?  SUSIE: Right . ANDREW: And she is that knowledge which is hard to get to, that knowledge which is hard won, and that knowledge which is tied to a deep respect and a deep cosmic awareness of the nature of the universe, right?  SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: And so this Odu and the method of divination and the process of divination, to me mirrors that, right?  SUSIE: Correct.  ANDREW: And so the shells become the mouth of the Priestess, right? And if we look at it in a sort of Rider Waite symbol, right? Cascarilla and the Ota, the black stone?  SUSIE: Yes! ANDREW: They mirror, we use those in the divination process, but they mirror those two columns … SUSIE: The boas and jacim, yeah.  ANDREW: The positive and negative vibrations that are in that sort of duality.  SUSIE: And those are a kind of … Are they a yes/no kind of stand-in?  ANDREW: Yeah, we use them and other things to ask specific questions within a reading. We each have … There's about a half dozen Ibo that all have ritual significance, and we use them in different ways depending on the nature of the question we're asking.  SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: And then the other thing that's going on in this card is, usually people divine on a straw mat or a tray … SUSIE: Yeah.  ANDREW: With cowrie shells. And some people use a wooden tray, maybe, but more often than not a straw mat. So, I wanted to create this idea of the straw mat, but then this idea that below it is this sort of cosmic opening, right? This connection to everything.  SUSIE: Yeah. ANDREW: So, this is actually probably one of the most abstracted cards in the whole deck … SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: In that it doesn't really show an Orisha or a thing that is sort of easily connectable, but I think that it really represents a sort of, that depth of knowledge and connection, direct connection to the voice of creation, that I associate with the High Priestess and that you know I associate with this divination process.  SUSIE: Yes. Now the Odu themselves, they're transmitted orally, right? It's not something that you just pick up a book, and not anyone can do it.  ANDREW: Yes. If you're not a priest, you cannot do cowrie shells, right?  SUSIE: Got you.  ANDREW: There's no … The best thing we could say is that you don't have the spiritual license, and my elders would be quite clear, you know, you can do anything you want with these shells, but they don't speak for the Orishas, therefore whatever you get is irrelevant.  SUSIE: Right.  ANDREW: You know … SUSIE: So it's not like what we think of … As tarot readers, we just pick up a deck and anyone can give it a go, this is something that you really need to go through initiation and be crowned as a priest to do.  ANDREW: And spend a long time studying, right? You know you need to understand that there are 256, technically 257 signs. Each of those signs has a specific hierarchical order of Orishas that speak in them. Each of them has proverbs, songs, ceremonies, offerings, taboos, patakis, and then each of those signs can come in ire, like the sign of blessing, or asobo, the negative sign, and then there are many kinds of ire and osogbo, and if you start to multiply those out, you start to realize how many different permutations are possible in this system . SUSIE: Right.  ANDREW: It takes a very long time and a lot of study to really come to understand what all those things mean.  SUSIE: Yeah, and is that something that … So, this is something that you might do as a priest, correct?  ANDREW: Yeah.  SUSIE: And did you internalize all of those 256, 257 signs or was it, is it an ongoing study? How does that work for you?  ANDREW: There's no end to the study. [laughing] SUSIE: Right. [laughing] ANDREW: Like hermeticism. When do you know enough?  SUSIE: Oh, you never know enough. No no no … [laughing] Right. Okay. Well that's really helpful in terms of getting into the card. Are there any other majors that you'd kind of like to draw attention to before we look at minors?  ANDREW: No, I'm happy to take your lead. SUSIE: Great. And honestly I would like to go through every single card in the deck, and I was having a lot of trouble sort of singling out a few that might be interesting to talk about, but given our time constraints, we'll just focus on some. I was looking at … the Nine of Wands, we're kind of going in order here, Nine of Wands [static at [01:04:39] see in this card, it's so interesting, because as I understand it, from your story, this is a representation of Yamaya, or one of her avatars I guess … ANDREW: Yeah. SUSIE: And there's a shipwreck, or an underwater ship, and [static] got a knife, and the knife has clearly just been used. So, maybe you can tell us a little bit about that.  ANDREW: Yeah, I mean, one of the things that people … In making the deck, I wanted to disrupt people's preconceived notions, right?  SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: Of certain things. You know, like people, it's common for people to say, yeah yeah yeah, if you want love, go and talk to Ochún. Right? And Ochún will help you find love.  SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: He might, it's possible, but sometimes [inaudible] Ochún in what context and so on and so on, right? But you know, Ochún also doesn't really dig people complaining very much, it's not a thing that she's really that into … SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: So, depending on the attitude that you're feeling about this, Ochún might also be irritated by you approaching her about it, it's very hard to say.  SUSIE: Yeah.  ANDREW: Which is why, you know, traditional practitioners divine, right?  SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: Because the good answer is, in traditional divination, any Orisha that offers to help you with a problem can help you with that problem.  SUSIE: Right.  ANDREW: Whether we sort of generally associate that with being their purview or not, doesn't really matter, because if they say they're gonna help, they're gonna help, and you just say thank you, right?  SUSIE: Right.  ANDREW: And, so when we think about Yamaya, people think about Yamaya as a sort of loving mother energy, as a sort of always supportive energy, right? You know?  SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: We really sometimes people are sent to work with her when they need sort of grounding and stabilizing of emotions … SUSIE: Yeah.  ANDREW: But, you know, Yamaya also has many roads and many avatars, right? So we're talking about, you know, Obu Okotu, it's not gentle, she's really a lot more like a shark, right?  SUSIE: mm-hmm. And so, you know, the idea, the thing that people often say, is that when the ship wrecks, she grabs the sailors and takes them down to their fate, right?  SUSIE: Yeah.  ANDREW: And so there's this real sort of show of strength and power with her that isn't what we would normally associate with it, but which is 100 percent a part of her personality, or at least her personality on that path, right?  SUSIE: Right. And I actually thought that this was … You know, the more I thought about it, the more it tied to my own understanding of this card. I mean when I think of the Nine of Wands, I think of someone who has been derived their strength from the vicissitudes of life, from the experiences of having suffered and having learned.  ANDREW: Yeah. SUSIE: And I think that … I also think of it as a very lunar card, so that made it kind of feel familiar to me as well. But also, the fact that power has a personality and ruthlessness to it, as well.  ANDREW: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean the Nine of Wands often turns up to speak of people who are strong clear incredibly competent, and sometimes hard for other people to relate to because of those things, right?  SUSIE: Yeah. They've been through a lot.  ANDREW: Yeah, for sure.  SUSIE: Yeah. Okay. Fascinating. And plus, it's just beautiful. You see the body of Yamaya, but at first you may not even recognize that it's a human form because of the blue on blue, it's a very underwater card. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Looking at -- Oh, you know, one of my favorite cards of all is your Ten of Cups. And, which I did receive this week, once, and what I love about it is the story that goes along with it. So maybe you could talk about that a little bit.  Sure. So when we were talking earlier in the podcast about picking your Ore or picking your destiny, right? This card represents that process, right?  SUSIE: mm-hmm. ANDREW: You know, when everybody's hanging out in Orun, up on the other side, you know where we're all spirits, eventually, people for whatever reasons decide it's time to come back to earth. You know, decide it's time to come back down here, you know, to the marketplace, to hang out and party, to fulfill something they haven't fulfilled, whatever it may be. And when they make that decision, they go, as my elders described it, you go down the hall to this room where Adela, who is the Orisha who crafts these destinies, as a series of sealed gourds … SUSIE: And that's the picture that we see on the card, we see Ajala with the gourds.  ANDREW: Yeah, I mean I think of it more as a person choosing their destiny. SUSIE: Oh, I see! ANDREW: But maybe.  SUSIE: Could be.  ANDREW: Adula, as far as I know, I've never come across any personifications of them … SUSIE: So this, so in your mind, this was the soul choosing which one. ANDREW: But, and we don't have a sort of super clear sense of karma or carry over from one life to another. It's not really … it's a mystery that we acknowledge that we don't fully understand, right? So you go into a room full of sealed gourds, and you pick something, and you really don't know, it could be horrible, right? It could be great, whatever. But if you've been good friends with Elegua, you know, and you've kind of kept good faith with him, maybe you reach out for something and he gives a little cough and says hey, not that one. SUSIE: [laughing] ANDREW: Don't take that one. Right?  SUSIE: And I love this that you have this little sketch of Elegua under the table, you know, very quiet. Very subtle. Yeah. [laughing] Just giving you a hint.  ANDREW: Yeah. So once you pick your destiny, you go back and see your creator, and then your soul goes into a body.  SUSIE: And you can see in the background of the card, you can see the outline of the Earth, so this idea that you're outside the material realm at that moment, choosing your fate, yeah, mm-hmm. I think that's just really beautiful. And I think it's quite relatable to, you know, in a traditional sense to the Ten of Cups, which I at least think of as the end of a cycle, you know, I often think of it as the end of the complete sequence of minors in some ways, because if you go through correspondences it immediately precedes the Two of Wands. But there's also this feeling, you know when you see the family on the Rider-Waite-Smith Ten of Cups, of this sort of being, they're taking a bow. This destiny is finished! And we're looking towards the next.  ANDREW: People … the belief is that people tend to reincarnate along family

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Given the state of the world we need to find better ways to relate to each other and grow. This is exactly what Andrew and Siobhan talk abot in this episode. How to find our way towards grpowing and undoing the conditinoing of history. This converstaion is about finding posibilities, opening to others and working to change the world for the better.  The link Siobhan mentioned, an inquiry practice for allies: https://radicaltarot.com/7-questions-earnest-allies/   A link they wish they'd mentioned, where I'm talking about oppression and sliding scales in spiritual business:  https://radicaltarot.com/lets-talk-about-sliding-scales/   Their newsletter (best way to keep in touch): http://bit.ly/radicaltarotsubscribe   Think about how much you've enjoyed the podcast and how many episodes you listened to, and consider if it is time to support the Patreon You can do so here. If you want more of this in your life you can subscribe by RSS , iTunes, Stitcher, or email. Thanks for joining the conversation. Please share the podcast to help us grow and change the world.  Andrew You can book time with Andrew through his site here.    Transcript  ANDREW: Welcome to the Hermit's Lamp podcast. I am hanging out today with Siobhan, who is a card reader who I know through the tarot community, but who I really wanted to sort of have on the podcast and sort of talk about politics and identity, and how we interact with each other, and how we can try and have better, more humane, more open conversations about what's going on with each other and in the world right now.  Because I feel like in a lot of the spiritual communities, there are, you know, some awareness of these things, and then there are places where there's just no awareness, and so I thought that Siobhan would be a great person to have on and talk about some of this stuff and see what comes of it. But for people who don't know who you are, who are you? What are you up to?  SIOBHAN: [laughing] Well. I am, primarily, a tarot reader and writer. I write most often at LittleRedTarot.com, which is an intersectional alternative space, and I also write at my website at RadicalTarot.com. I spend a lot of time writing about the intersections that I live on. And so, that might look like writing about race, writing about other marginalized groups, writing about chronic illness, or mental health issues. And so, I spend a lot of time writing about political topics, although, you would never believe it, I'm not really as political of a person [laughing], not usually, but my writing does tend to be pretty authentic and pretty raw in talking about my experience in marginalized communities. So, that's a lot of what I end up doing. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. And -- so -- Siobhan and I have been talking for a while about being on the podcast, and for a variety of reasons it keeps getting nudged into the future, until today. But one of the things that sort of surfaced recently was sort of a conversation which we were both a part of, around ... Not to give away sort of personal information but, somebody was called out for a behavior, and, you know ... And, and, you know, sort of Siobhan and I were sort of both the voices in that conversation that kind of migrated towards, “Well, there is something to what they're saying, there's something that we could consider, right?”  SIOBHAN: Mmmhmm. Mmmhmm. ANDREW: You know, and so, it kind of reminded me that this was the conversation I wanted to have ... SIOBHAN: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And, you know, I think that there's ... You know, we live in interesting times, right?  SIOBHAN: Right! [laughs] ANDREW: Where, the ways in which people have access to each other, the ways in which people treat each other, especially online but also in lots of other places, you know, it's often really unclear to me whether ... What's helpful and what's not, right?  SIOBHAN: Right.  ANDREW: You know, and so ... Yeah, I'm just wondering ... Because your response was so wonderful, I'm wondering, you know ... SIOBHAN: [laughing] ANDREW: If you could sort of share a little bit of what that idea was, you know?  SIOBHAN: It's so funny. Yeah, you know, the first thing that pops up when you talked about that, was a post I wrote, actually, a very similar time of year, maybe two years ago, and it was in response to Kelly-Ann Maddox's #TarotSoWhite discussion. I don't know if you saw any of that. But the dialogue came up around how many decks there are that have representation, how many diverse decks that there are, and so, it was an interesting time, because it was the first time I had ever heard anyone sort of call out this notion of the tarot space being predominantly white, predominantly occupied by a certain demographic. And I want to say, I had mentioned it briefly in a tarot chat, and then it came up later again and again, but the dialogue was pretty interesting and fruitful at the time. And it was funny, because the piece that I wrote in response, actually was contrary to the original callout. [laughing]  So, whereas the original assertion was, there aren't very many decks with people of color, I wrote, “Well, actually, there could be more, way more ...” At the time, it was two years ago. “But they do exist, and to reference them as if they don't is erasure.” And I remember at the time having a really sweet conversation with Kelly-Ann, where she realized how many different options were available that actually she hadn't seen yet, and it was really amazing to get closer to her and to dialogue in that way, and it went really well.  And so, at the time, I didn't have the concept of a call-in, versus a call-out, and you'll hear those terms more commonly in feminist spaces, people talking about drawing attention to a behavior or activity that they saw that could be problematic, in a way that may be perceived as shameful versus as an invitation to dialogue, to go deeper and to learn something. And so, I didn't even have a concept of that, at the time, I just responded with pure emotion. It was a very emotional summer, I want to say, there were a lot of acts of violence that had just happened, in the news. Perhaps the first of the series that kicked off all the -- I know it's hard to remember a time when it wasn't [laughing] -- all the time. ANDREW: Yeah. SIOBHAN: It was less visible then, so it was the first instance. And so, yeah, this conversation has just gotten bigger and deeper in the spiritual community and also in other communities, and now, people who have never encountered any sort of idea about their own privilege, or about the experiences of marginalized groups, are now encountering these experiences, and not everybody who calls people out necessarily has the space to do so in a way that is kind or compassionate, and not everybody who is called out or in necessarily knows that there is any information to glean from it.  And so, it's so interesting to watch these conversations happen. [laughing] It's a very primordial time for these discussions. It's very new to many people. And it's worth it and it's exciting, but there's also issues when it can be tender.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: Times when it can be tender.  ANDREW: Yeah, I mean, I think it's ... I mean, it's challenging on many levels, right?  SIOBHAN: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And I think that for people in all of the positions to have openness to where other people are coming from ... SIOBHAN: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And openness to being present and sort of curious about the process. SIOBHAN: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: You know? I mean, it's really tough, and certainly, at times, not possible or not even appropriate.  SIOBHAN: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: But, it's one of the things that I dug about your, you know, your response in that conversation was, you really were like, “Huh. Well, that's really interesting. Okay, where are you coming from? What is that about? What does that mean?”  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: You know, there was a curiosity to it, right?  SIOBHAN: Right.  ANDREW: And I think that it's such a powerful place to be, right? Like, curiosity and openness are so profound when we can find our way to those positions ... SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: But, you know, it's certainly not easy, right? Or, and you know ... and definitely not always possible or appropriate. SIOBHAN: Right. It's the edge of the cliff. ANDREW: Right?  SIOBHAN: It's that full space.  ANDREW: Yeah. SIOBHAN: And to even just -- I remember in that conversation, the topic we were talking about was so unfamiliar to me, in a way, I said to myself, it had never occurred to me to be mindful of this thing that even you're bringing up, now I can know, moving forward, to think about this marginalized group which I had not considered, when I create and when I collaborate and when I support. And to really be humble in that moment, and to notice my own privilege, having not had to think about it ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: And owning that to. A lot of ... There's a lot of assumptions made about who has privilege to check, and it's so many more people than you would imagine, so many more kinds ... I've been really exploring the privilege of someone who -- if you're a person who, if you're photogenic, if you're pretty, if you're thin, if you have money, there's so many different ways to look at it. It's so much deeper than just well, there's a binary and everyone on this end is victimized and everyone on this other end is victimized and not everybody on both sides of it have that awareness. And so, once you realize [laughing] that fact, it behooves you to be curious, because there's so much to learn.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: There's so many different angles to really realize where you have been blessed and where you continue to not be blessed based on things that are circumstances, perhaps. And it's very hard at times, but it can also be interesting, if a person has the space, you know.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. Yeah, I remember, a couple of years ago now, I did this really long, like 100 or 150 question survey that sort of evaluated your privilege, right? SIOBHAN: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And, you know, it wasn't like ... I've seen some shorter ones since then and I'm always kind of like, I look at them, and ah, it's like, it makes some sense, but this one was so in depth, and I remember, like, going through and sort of like answering the questions and seeing ... Seeing things that, you know, clearly highlighted my privileges, you know, for me. Like, oh yeah, that's totally me, I totally have, I have access to that, you know.  SIOBHAN: Right, right.  ANDREW: I went to university, right?  SIOBHAN: Right.  ANDREW: I did this, I did other things. And then all these other things that I never even -- I mean, many of which I was totally aware of but some of which I didn't even really consider part of the conversation, right?  SIOBHAN: Right.  ANDREW: You know, and things that I didn't have, that I was like, hmm, interesting.  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: And then I started to think about the ways in which, you know, certain kinds of situations around family structures and other things, you know, and the historical family structures ... SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: You know, whether your families stay together or don't stay together ... SIOBHAN: Right.  ANDREW: How those ... like, so many layers of conversation ... SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: Can impact these experiences, you know?  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: Yeah. And to me, that's where that curiosity comes in, right?  SIOBHAN: Mmmhmm, mmmhmm. ANDREW: How did this shape me or shape somebody else? How do these forces exist in our culture?  SIOBHAN: Right.  ANDREW: Why is one structure prioritized over another?  SIOBHAN: Right. Right. And then as consciousness deepens, and as awareness deepens, how do I transform or transmute all of the pain that I'm now aware of? [laughing] ANDREW: Right? Yeah. SIOBHAN: My own, and also society, because it's a lot. And it seems overwhelming at times when you really open up to that awareness, and which is why some people will choose, unconsciously or consciously, not to be aware of it.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. Well, and that brings us to a topic we were chatting a little bit about before the call, which is this spiritual bypassing piece, right?  SIOBHAN: Mmm. ANDREW: You know. When do we suddenly try and use, you know, a spiritual tool to skip our pain or skip our privilege or skip something else? You know? Instead of, instead of actually digging into it, you know? When do we avoid that shadow work?  SIOBHAN: Right.  ANDREW: Instead of like, honoring the wholeness of our experience and dealing with it all ... SIOBHAN: Right.  ANDREW: And then what kind of things come from that, right?  SIOBHAN: Right. Is it at that moment of realization when you open to ...? How much is really happening, how many different layers ... First of all, if you're still in it, there's that space of, oh gosh, how do I hold this for myself, and if you aren't in it, if you have traversed and if you have some kind of mobility, and this is more common as we interact across the streams of privilege, you know. I have access to all kinds of things through people who have access even though I don't have the access, and now there's this opportunity for guilt, this sense of unworthiness, or even thinking about, oh my gosh, my ancestors, they had this thing, they did this thing, and now I feel this sense of guilt over that.  And so, there's an opportunity, or a ... More accurate to say, a tendency to say, with spiritual practice, to say, okay, being spiritual, having arrived, being enlightened, that means I don't get to feel those things any more. [laughing] I get to be somewhere other than those things, because it's not holy to feel guilty, unworthy, you know, anger, hostility, it's not holy to feel afraid of things that are different, they mean, these things are not spiritual things, and so ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: We hear a lot of talk about quote, letting it go. ANDREW: Right.  SIOBHAN: I mean, it's so popular to talk about letting it go. This is a pet peeve of mine. [laughing] ANDREW: Uh huh. Tell me all about it!  SIOBHAN: [laughing] If you read my stuff, you'll hear me going on about it all the time cause it's like, we want to let the things go that are the darkest things, that are, they keep returning because they're very deeply embedded in our ancestral story or our own story or maybe just because it's a part of us, or we haven't integrated it, we reject it, and so there it is again.  And so, the notion that we can continuously keep trying to let something go, rather than just sit with it, you know, which is awful, and terrible, and we often don't want to do it, but, sometimes when we are able to just sit with it, without the judgement call, what this means, what this means about who I am, then, it has less of a pull, you know, even when it shows up. But it's counterintuitive, so instead of doing that, everybody ... You know, it's very popular in the spiritual community to want to let go, we're gonna let go, every full moon we're gonna let go! [laughing] And it's like all right, that's ... We can keep it up, I guess. [laughing] ANDREW: Yeah, I mean, I think that there comes a point, you know ... I have this body of work that I created called the Letting Go Work, right?  SIOBHAN: [laughing] I'm sorry.  ANDREW: And so, but the focus of the work is ... is actually to go and sit down with your shadow, right?  SIOBHAN: Right.  ANDREW: It's not ... It's not this process of like, you know, and then I'm gonna go into the spiritual bath and shower all this stuff off me, it'll go down the drain, it's gone forever.  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: It's the process of building conscious communication with the shadow stuff ... SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: And then sustaining it on the regular ... SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: So that, you know, you're checking in with that, and so your shadow has a chance to say, hey, you're ignoring this crap over here.  SIOBHAN: Right! ANDREW: Hey, what about this? Hey, this is ... You know, you're being inauthentic or you're denying something, right?  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: Or you're really mad, you've got to let it out, dude. Because if we can talk to that stuff, and sit with it and be present with it and engage with it, then we have a whole different relationship to it. Right?  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: But like, Carl Jung did not say when we get through the process of individuation that our shadow is gone.  SIOBHAN: Right. Poof!  ANDREW: We're living in relationship with it then, right?  SIOBHAN: Poof!  ANDREW: It matters. SIOBHAN: [laughing] ANDREW: Exactly. SIOBHAN: Yeah! And it's like, if a person comes from a place where they're not wanting to do that work, that very needed work of upholding space for this thing, then there's no way they would be able to, when they actually encounter that shadow out in the world. So this person who is marginalized in ways they can't understand, the person who doesn't have the privilege they have, if that person calls out to them, in the same way their shadow calls out to them, why would they have a different reaction? They would do the same thing. It would encourage that person to let it go. It would encourage that person to speak in terms of love and light and always gravitate toward and pay attention to love and light and they would say, ignore the things that don't meet or match that paradigm, the same way they say to themselves, and so ...  I always, there's a little part of me that kind of dies, when I hear someone say, “Turn, you know, turn your attention entirely away from this thing that is so much a part of you and so much your struggle and that you're feeling.” Cause it's like, people need that space for themselves, before they can have and hold space for other people, they're very much linked, and the notion that we can get away is somewhat contrary to the notion that we're all part of one great big thing, which is underneath a lot of spiritual practices anyway. ANDREW: Right. Well, there's definitely that. Yeah. It's one of the best pieces of advice I got when I first started working as a reader, was a good friend of mine basically was like, “So dude, make sure you deal with all your crap.”  SIOBHAN: [bursts out laughing] ANDREW: Deal with it, deal with it all, stay clean, you know, stay clear about it, work to stay free of it, because otherwise you're going to sit down with somebody and try and work and their pain is going to trigger your pain ... SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: And then it's going to go all sorts of sideways, right?  SIOBHAN: Right.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: Right. A business is amazing for really shining the light on every crevice that you thought ... [laughing] that you were done with! ANDREW: Right?  SIOBHAN: Oh, what about this? What about this here? [laughing] What about this thing that isn't finished?  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: Yeah. There's a ... a lot more compassion that could stand to be doled out in all directions. [laughing] ANDREW: Right? Inwardly as well, you know? All of it. Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: In all the directions. ANDREW: Yeah. So. What, what ... I'm going to put you on the spot here, okay, so forgive me. SIOBHAN: [laughing] ANDREW: You can opt out if you need to. SIOBHAN: [laughing] ANDREW: But like, what would you hope somebody would do if they were ... If they run into something new that they weren't aware of ... Would be kind of a problematic thing? You know, whether it's ... whatever its focus is, gender, race, or any number of sort of different things, but like ... What would you hope that people, how would they react?  SIOBHAN: Oh, man! It's tricky. And I say that because the answer would depend in a large part on who that person was. And here's what I mean. There's a spectrum. If a person had an abundance of energy and awareness and privilege and time, it would be really nice if we could have that curiosity response like, Oh! Why is this coming up? you know? Is there something to learn here? Is there something I don't know? Is there ... You know. I acknowledge that this has nothing to do with me because anything anyone ever says generally has nothing to do with anyone, because they're all dealing with their projections, but at the same time, is there something I could learn, if they had that space, but the honest to god truth is that some people, whatever their sense of abundance or privilege or access or whatever they have, they may not have the space.  And a second-best thing, in that scenario, would be if they could actually see that they don't have the space. So that looks like, Wow, I don't know what to do with this, but I know at least that I'm feeling a defensive response that I want to prove something and so maybe I'll just pause, and that's it.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: Just a pause where they can see and be with the fact that that's what they have the space for, they have the space for maybe, a pause, and even getting to the point of pause is HUGE. You know, cause the natural thing to do is just react ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: Savor, be right or reassure, whatever the deal is, and it would be amazing to even have the choice in a moment, and so, having the choices coming from working on things before you were even in the situation [laughing]. So, it's really hard to say, oh man, curiosity, willing to be open to possibly having missed something, possibly not knowing something, possibly being wrong. And, it depends on the person and if they have space. I actually wrote an entire blog post about that very thing you just asked. [laughing] ANDREW: Well, perfect! We'll put a link in the show notes. SIOBHAN: It was the most viewed blog post I ever wrote, and I wrote it that summer that we were just talking about ...  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: Right before that whole discussion cause, it was just so painful to see so much death and to be reminded that no matter how much you progress, or at least in my instance, how much I had progressed and how much better I felt. Yet within, that there were still those dark things that were my reality, that may be my reality, without, and so in there it really encourages people to have a dialogue with what they need, really, first, because if they don't know, they can't, they can't offer anything. They have to come first, and they have to also acknowledge a reality in which they may be coming first many places without any effort on their part. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: They may be central, they may be primary, they may be the first thought for entire nations. [laughs] And so, there's the thought for: Do I have the space for the person who unlike me, doesn't come first, in my nation, in my society? And being honest about that. Because some people have a culture that is ingrained and it's very fragile, and they actually may not know all that they may be capable of, they may not have been invited to step into their fullness just yet. And so the kneejerk reaction, which is natural and human ... It might be much smaller than they're capable of being. And so it can be exciting to think about interaction with a person where they actually realize more their resilience. ANDREW: Hmm. SIOBHAN: And they say, Oh, I've felt defensive and offended every time this has ever happened in my whole life, and maybe I have room for more reactions.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: You know?  ANDREW: Yeah. SIOBHAN: Maybe I have room for more than just my central and my primaryness. Maybe based on that solid self-care, you know, first step, I have more resilience than I thought. More capacity to notice when I'm expecting someone else to be resilient in my stead. And maybe perhaps a habit I have of doing that all the time. [laughs] ANDREW: Yeah. SIOBHAN: You know? ANDREW: Mmmhmm. Well, and I also think that pause is such a great notion. Because I think that ... I think that we don't always even understand what we might do, or how we might do it, or what could be possible?  SIOBHAN: Mmmhmm.  ANDREW: Or what might shift to make things possible over time. SIOBHAN: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: Like one of the things for me is, you know, I was aware for a while that this podcast was inaccessible to a bunch of people, right?  SIOBHAN: Mmmhmm, mmmhmm. ANDREW: You know, because they are unable to listen, you know? And, you know, and it took me awhile, like maybe six months of pondering that and then looking at what it would cost me to provide transcriptions. And then looking at my wallet and being like, “I can't do that.”  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: And then thinking about it and looking at options, and then, you know, it wasn't until one day ... And I was aware of Patreon the whole time, you know, which is like this sort of people pay per episode to support stuff.  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: I was aware of it the whole time, but I don't even remember what happened, but somebody talked about it in a certain way. And I was like, “I could use Patreon to make that happen,” you know?  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: And then that took a little bit of time, you know? And then now, every episode comes out with transcriptions. SIOBHAN: That's cool! ANDREW: You know, which is, which is, exciting, right? But like, but, if I had gotten stuck at I can't do this -- I was stuck at I can't do anything about this today. And left it at that, then it wouldn't be where it is now. You know? And that's one of the things that can come from the pause, right? SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: It can come from, you know, it's just like, putting a little sign up on the wall that says this is a thing I'd like to do at some point, somehow. SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: I'd like to change this issue, and then, and then, hopefully, time and circumstance shift in a way that allows it to be resolved ... SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: You know? You get an idea to do something different. And maybe it doesn't, you know, I mean, because there are still times when offering stuff like that is beyond the means of whatever it is that I'm doing, you know?  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: Some of the classes that I run are fairly small, and so it's not super possible, but, you know, we can set our intentions and we can ponder these things, and they can sort of open us up to other possibilities, right?  SIOBHAN: Right, right.  ANDREW: Yeah.  SIOBHAN: That's a powerful example. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: That's a really powerful example. Especially the notion of, even if I can't do this thing right this second, I have space to think about it. ANDREW: Yeah. SIOBHAN: You know, because some people, they file it away under, “I can't do that. The end.” And then they never have to think about it again. Like they're absolved. This is that bypassing coming up. It's like, “I couldn't in this one instance implement it, so I won't worry about it.”  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: But when there's a willingness to stay with it, to stay with this other reality that isn't yours, in that perfect example that you just gave, more is possible, eventually.  ANDREW: Yeah. And also, you know I think that it's also important to understand that perfect isn't the goal. Right? SIOBHAN: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: I mean, perfect would be lovely if it existed anywhere. Right?  SIOBHAN: Right. [laughing] ANDREW: But when we're working on these things, perfect can't be the goal. You know, because I think, at least for me, perfect equals immobilization. Right?  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: Perfect equals this space where I just can't continue because, you know, because I can't get there. Right? You know? I mean, there's nothing about my life that allows me enough time and space to make anything perfectly ... SIOBHAN: Right.  ANDREW: So I pursue just sort of working on stuff, right?  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: And I think that that's part of the ongoing sort of dialogue between curiosity and openness too, right?  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: Recognizing I will do my best, or what I perceive to be my best now ... SIOBHAN: Mmm. ANDREW: And then we'll see what happens, and then I will engage with what happens afterwards, and then I will adjust, and improve, or change or whatever if I have space for that.  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: Continue that process, right? Like it's not this sort of unfolding of this awareness of privilege in North America. SIOBHAN: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: I mean, I've been watching it flow for a while now, and it's not done, it's going to be done soon, it's going to continue, right?  SIOBHAN: [laughing] Right.  ANDREW: And that's, that's not even because ... Like, it would be tempting to be like, well, if everybody just accepted it, or was on board, or whatever, but I'm like, well no, because it's also a process of undoing, right? SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: And when you start moving stuff, you start having space to see other things. SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: And that doesn't mean that we shouldn't move anything because, you know, cause we'll find the dust bunnies under the couch, or, you know, whatever ... SIOBHAN: Right! [laughing] ANDREW: It's like, we should move those things and then we should move other things, and then we should see what's beyond that, right?  SIOBHAN: Right.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: Exactly. Yeah. And the notion ... The notion of doing our best is interesting also when we consider that nothing ... there may not be an occurrence in our lives that actually calls on us to consider perspectives outside of our own. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: And that's where the notion of resilience can come in. For the person who is used to staying in their own perspective, they are only so large. There is only so much that is possible. Which is why tarot can be useful. When you come together with people over tarot, there's another perspective that's introduced. We do this in interpersonal relationships of all kinds, sure. And the person who doesn't have that playback, or the person who is isolated from cultures that they've never met, they're never going to come across a person with this worldview, their concept of their best might be limited. It may not even reflect the reality for them. And so it's exciting to think about people being expanded, and their notion of what's possible being expanded as a result of all these dust bunnies that we keep finding.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. Yeah. Yeah, and when I grew up, I grew up in a suburb of Toronto. And, you know, when I went to high school, I think that, you know, in a school that probably had like 1000 students, there might have been a handful of people of color, you know?  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: Like, one table at the lunchroom was like, people of color, and that was it, you know? And that was indicative of the whole town, right? And, you know? And now as we open to that stuff, you know, and as we open to other cultures, we can, you know, expand more and figure things out differently, right?  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: And I think that it's easy to sort of look around, in, you know, and I always say, cause I live right in downtown Toronto now, right? Like one block from the gay village, and, you know, and in one of the most sort of diverse neighborhoods around, kind of thing.  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: And, you know, it's easy to sort of think that this is also it, right? You know? And when I travel to other places, I'm like, oh no. I live in a little pocket that is SO different than everywhere else, right?  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: And I mean not everywhere else, but like many other places, in a kind of a counterforce to that sort of living in the suburbs experience, you know, I now live the opposite, but both of them create their own limiting tunnels, right?  SIOBHAN: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: You know, I think it's ... I think it's really interesting to sort of try and understand what we're not living, wherever we're living, right? However we're living that, and sort of see what other people are actually up to.  SIOBHAN: Right. Right. And really honor our blinders.  ANDREW: Mmm. SIOBHAN: I ... Only in the last ten years, have I really appreciated the fact that I belong to the global majority. [laughs]  ANDREW: Mmmhmm! SIOBHAN: It's like, it's been the case for longer than that, but only in the last five to seven years, really, has that sat with me, and I had to go and seek out communities where they would discuss those things, for it to really become a part of my awareness.  ANDREW: Right. SIOBHAN: So, it's not even necessarily an appearance grants you access into different perspectives, you know?  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: It's a dialogue that you keep having, and keep needing to be willing to have in order to keep learning.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. Well, and I think that willingness to have it is such an important thing, right? And from my perspective, for me personally, willingness to get out, you know?  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: To look for it, and look for people who have the space to have that dialogue with me, right? SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: Because you want to be mindful that you're not sort of expecting ... SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: Somebody else to educate you, or whatever. Right? It's a thing that you should ask permission about, right?  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: And, you know? Because otherwise we don't want to expect that I'm gonna run to this person and be like, so tell me all about this disability that you've got ... SIOBHAN: Right! [laughs] ANDREW: How does that happen, right? Tell me all about, your like, the color of your skin and how that impacts your life and your culture or whatever.  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: You know, cause those things are ... That's problematic too, right? But like, looking for those permissions. And then being really really super willing to sort of, you know, if you're gonna ask, then listen. SIOBHAN: Right.  ANDREW: Like really listen, you know?  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: As we're recording this, in September I have a tarot deck coming out through Llewellyn, which is the Orisha tarot deck, right? Which is a deck that sort of explores the overlap of my involvement with traditional Afro-Cuban Orisha practices ... SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: And my initiation into them, and my experiences for all these years playing with tarot and working with tarot. And one of the things that I did when I started, was I sat down with a friend of mine who is an activist and a person of color. And I showed them a bunch of the drawings that I was working on, and I was like, “What do you think? What do you feel? How does this hit you?” Right?  And not because I feel that they can speak for everybody, but because I felt like I needed somebody to talk to, and they were a person who was, you know, an artist as well as, you know, a spiritual person and so on. And we talked about it a bunch, and they liked what I was up to.  And then when I got to the end of the deck, I was like, you know, I'd made some artistic choices, I'd depicted a lot of people of color in the deck, and people with different bodies, and all these kinds of things, and I wanted to sit down and like, just sort of say, like, “Do you have thoughts and feelings about what was going on?” You know?  And so, I sat down with the same person and with somebody else, and I showed them the art work, again, and there were specifically a couple of choices that I made that affected about a dozen of the cards, right? And, and so, and I didn't bring up anything, I just sat down and showed them or whatever, and both people thought it was great. They really liked what I had been doing, they felt like ... They felt like it was good representation. You know, like one of them said, “I feel like I see my uncle in this card, and I feel like I see this person in this card, I really like it.” And I was like, “That's great.” Cause I was totally willing to redo a bunch of these cards. You know? And, and I think that we need to be, if we're going to enter into this, we need to consider that we might need to redo stuff. And it might be inconvenient. Or it might be a burden, right?  SIOBHAN: Right.  ANDREW: You know, and also, in terms of perfect, this is two people's opinion? Right? Like this is not everybody, and I am sure inevitably, you know, because that's the way the world is, people will have issues, some people will have an issue, or maybe not, but like, but I don't expect that it's perfect, you know? But I also couldn't poll the world, you know? And, and, so, we need to find our way to engage this stuff. And find our way to keeping moving forward and making things happen, you know? So. SIOBHAN: That's interesting. That's interesting, and it's interesting because it's a very popular notion in the public eye now. The African tradition is very very in the center of everybody's eye, and many people are new to it, and so, there are people that will see it, they won't know anything about you and then they'll say, “[sigh], It's that, it's that, how popular it is,” and then they'll jump to that conclusion, and then there are some that are traditionalists and they'll have their own reasons why, and it's interesting because the diaspora is so huge ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: And people will have all different perspectives. And it's ... really hard to even try and get one consensus about what is right, what feels good, and I recently had an incident where I was taking a course and I asked about using some kind of Buddhist symbolism. I've been cultivating a practice of my own. And I said, “You know, I don't know how I feel about this, using this symbol. Does anyone practice, does anyone belong, does anyone come from this culture, how do you all feel?”  And I want to say, there were many people who said “Oh, it's probably fine,” or some that said ... I also thought it was really funny, they'd say, “Well, it's not the same when people of color do this thing.” And I thought, Oh! And that's interesting too, as if ... it's almost like a free pass moment? And I was like, that doesn't really resonate with me. Especially when you think about ... if you think about the question, you know, do I belong to a culture who has benefited from the oppression of this other culture whose symbolism that I'm engaging? If I were to say that as an American, and I were to think about Buddhist cultures that have been affected by American policy, the answer to that would be yes, regardless of my skin color, because I'm here. And I had to really decide for myself what felt appropriate to me ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: Even with the endorsement of people in the culture, because there was this moment of what is the history? How have I benefited? You know.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: And there's an opportunity ... I said to myself when I wanted to use the symbol: It's okay because I supported ... I supported Buddhists when I bought this. And I support them when I do this other thing. And I uplift this people in this way and that and then, there's a capitalist notion that I now own this symbol ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: And I can do what I want with it. Because I engage it ... And in my case, because I engage it personally, because I have a practice and I've been cultivating. It's like, this is my culture! ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: You know, I do it too! And it was tricky for me to sit with. The concept of even owning a symbol ... ANDREW: Mmm. SIOBHAN: Is somewhat capitalist and colonialist in nature. To have the rights to use it. And this is new for me to think about this, honestly. While I've thought about cultural appropriation before, I engaged it in depth this summer through that course that I was taking. And that was interesting to have that moment, because I had always thought, as long as I am engaging this culture, supporting this culture, and uplifting this culture, then it's fair game, the symbols are fair game. But I no longer necessarily believe that. It's totally case by case.  ANDREW: Do you use the symbol?  SIOBHAN: Did I use it? No. ANDREW: No?  SIOBHAN: I didn't. And I said to the people I was asking, I said, If I ever use images of my practice or Buddhist symbols that I engage, it will have the level of awareness in it that I've now garnered. It won't be an afterthought. It won't be like, Oh, I just used this symbol and then afterwards I think about it. It will be like, this is what I intend, I stand confident in this. And it will involve the foresight needed, just like you were talking about, sitting down with people and saying, “How do you feel about this? How do you feel about this? And ...” ANDREW: Yeah. SIOBHAN: And asking myself questions like, “What about this project, this representation, or this use of this symbol, amplifies further the voice of the people who have been disadvantaged ...”  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: In accordance to or in relationship to members' cultures that I belong to, and things like that, it won't be separate from that ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: I will be having that awareness. If I do use the symbol, ever. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. Yeah, you know, and making this deck, I certainly talked to my elders. You know, I sat down and showed my elder all the work, you know, to make sure that they were happy with it and comfortable with it, you know, and again recognizing that they don't speak for everybody, you know, like it's... SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: You know? I mean, and ultimately, from my point of view, when it comes to this particular project, you know, it's a ... I would have used the word Lucumí as the title of the tarot, but it's already taken by another deck, but like it represents a very specific set of experiences which are mine and my story and my journey and my ... SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: Understandings and my lineage, you know? And it doesn't represent, and certainly it doesn't pretend to represent, all of these diasporic traditions or any of those things, because that's impossible. Because they are related but they are not the same.  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: And, you know, and I'm also, I am not a Cuban, and I'm not a, you know, Yoruban or, you know, Brazilian or other things, you know? I'm not a person of color. I'm not any of those things.  SIOBHAN: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And those people and the way in which those traditions are practiced in different communities are always going to be different.  SIOBHAN: Right.  ANDREW: And, you know, that's the end of the conversation, right, you know? SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: And for me, the problem arises when people don't understand those implications, right? You know, like you're talking about, you know? Well, I can just -- I'm a Buddhist -- Look at me, I've got a brass Buddha statue, I'm good, right?  SIOBHAN: Right! [laughing] Right. Right, there's a lot of ... harm can be done in the assumption that because a thing was purchased, you own the rights to the culture ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: And you own the right to use that symbol, however you want, just cause you own it. And that's the capitalist way. ANDREW: Yeah. SIOBHAN: I bought that, it's mine, I can do whatever I want with it, and there's not a thought process about where did this fabric come from? What traditional weave is this? What are the conditions in the nation where they do this weave? And, are they in a situation where their culture is being eradicated?  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: I just heard about that recently. I can't remember the major design company that stole this technique from a region. And then another company came, went to that nation, and amplified the voices there, and created a school so they could continue teaching their cultural work. And there is an opportunity for more things like that to happen, the uplifting of voices that are fading away because of systemic oppression, but only if people get beyond their feeling of ownership of something ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: And their feeling of glory about something. And ... And it's really easy to lose track of that.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. Yeah. For sure. And I think it's a thing, you know, we live in ... Capitalism is such a thing, right? Says the person who runs a store, right?  SIOBHAN: [laughing] ANDREW: You know, but, I think that ... I was having this conversation with somebody recently about being anti-capitalist, right?  SIOBHAN: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And they were talking about somebody else who was running a business who was anti-capitalist and was running into all these challenges and problems for the people that they had, that they would struggle and stuff. And, I'm like, I don't think I'm anti-capitalist per se, I mean, I think that there are better ideas, for sure, but I'm definitely anti-exploitation. You know? And for me, like, capitalism, when we talk about capitalism, I feel lost and daunted by the immensity of it. You know? I mean, like, what am I going to do about this? You know? I ... It just hits a thing where I sort of get stuck. But I definitely work to, in my interactions, be anti-exploitive. You know?  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: And seeking to, you know, build and prioritize the independent people, independent deck makers that we're supporting, you know? Seeking to ask the questions about ... So I'm buying this thing, where did it come from? How is it made? You know? Is this palo santo sustainably harvested?  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: Or is this like you're in there with a chain saw cutting them down? You know? SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: And seeking that ... it adds a layer of work, but I think it also ... Beyond just being like, good practice, I think it also adds a layer of power to stuff as well, you know, when we're talking about spiritual things, you know? When we know that there's a chain of connection that has consideration for the earth and people and spirit and so on, I feel like there's a flow through there that makes things better, you know?  SIOBHAN: Right.  ANDREW: Yeah. SIOBHAN: If the opportunity is taken. And I believe that chain is there even if we don't take the opportunity. And then what are we connecting ourselves to, is the question.  ANDREW: Well, for sure, right?  SIOBHAN: You know, when we don't investigate it, what are the conditions where they mine this? What does the earth look like as a result of this mining? What happens ... You know? When this degrades, this thing I use, this single use thing, and, one of the things that really flabbergasted me [laughing], when I became more active online, in the online spiritual community, was the notion that spiritual practices are concerned with nature, and concerned with the preservation of nature, and I'm still feeling like, if I were to divulge the level at which I'm thinking about things when it comes to sustainability, I mean, I would be that crazy person. Like -- And I mean that like in the sense that I would be the outlier in the way that I often am.  Not to mean, not to say that, not to put a judgement call on the person who thinks differently or the person who is othered because of their mental health status, because again, I'm coming from that place too, but the person who is othered because [sigh], this is just too weird, this is just too hard, this is just ... but at the same time, we're in a time where it's so important that really everybody kind of gets on the same page about that, or else.  ANDREW: I just don't get those people, though, right? I'm like, this is a person who is way more passionate about this than I have capacity to do.  SIOBHAN: Right.  ANDREW: So I'm gonna like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna pay them for their passion, for their intensity, for being out there, you know?  SIOBHAN: Right.  ANDREW: Cause there are these people out there, you know? I have the good fortune to meet them and I'm just like, Yes! You're the good chain. I want to support this.  SIOBHAN: [laughing] Right.  ANDREW: And other people, I'm just like, “Hmm, I'm not sure, we'll see,” you know?  SIOBHAN: Right.  ANDREW: You know, like, cause lots of people, I run into lots of people doing business, and lots of people importing stuff from wherever, and I'm always like, hmm, you know. SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: And then there's people who are doing great stuff, you know? Like some of my suppliers, they know exactly where their crystals are coming from cause they're paying the people directly to mine them. You know? SIOBHAN: Right.  ANDREW: And they go down and, you know, give those people money and support their families and connect with them and connect with sustainability of these things, cause they want them to keep coming, right?  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: You know, and they want these people who have these abilities to keep doing it and to be supported, you know?  SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: And I think that that's amazing when that, when I see that, you know?  SIOBHAN: Right.  ANDREW: So. Yeah.  SIOBHAN: I continue to be surprised how many people own shops, metaphysical shops, that look at me sideways when I say “Do you support ethical mining? Are these ethically mined?” And I just get blank faces. [laughing] You know, like, “What does that even mean? What are you even talking about? Oh, well probably, you know,” and it's like, this isn't an insane notion, in the spiritual community, it's not this bizarre notion, but it is, it is a lot of places. ANDREW: Yeah, and it's tough because there's so many, you know, there's stuff, certainly, 100 percent of our stuff is not, it's not clear where a bunch of it comes from. SIOBHAN: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: Because there's so many disruptions in the points of connection, you know? SIOBHAN: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: You know, but I think it's important to be mindful of it and to try and work on that, right? Cause otherwise we'll never move further in that direction, you know? So. SIOBHAN: Right. ANDREW: Yeah. SIOBHAN: Right. I look at my collection [laughing] ... My collection I've amassed at this point of gems and minerals, and my awareness of even the concept of ethical mining started, really, when I got more active in the Little Red Tarot community. She's been very vocal -- Beth, the owner -- about ethical mining and through her I learned, Oh, I really have to look out for this. Cause you learn in little pieces. The gems. It's the food, where's the food coming from? This plastic, what's going to happen to it when I'm done with it? You, obviously, you don't become aware of it all at once, or at least hopefully not, you work piece by piece, and then to really think about, what am I going to do with this stuff now that I already have it?  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. SIOBHAN: What is the most powerful purpose that I could put this to, now that I do already own it and really, staying curious about that, rather than shutting down, and rather than going into a guilt that doesn't serve.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. For sure. Well, I think that's a good spot to stop it and say, if you're curious about Siobhan, where do they come and find you? [laughing] SIOBHAN: [laughing] I'm at RadicalTarot.com.  ANDREW: Nice.  SIOBHAN: And, everything is there. I'm also everywhere else and they can find my Instagram. My Twitter is actually the most political place I am, ironically, that's the place I'm most vocal when it comes to how I feel. I am on Facebook, but it's only a matter of time, before, I think, I part ways with them. And my newsletter is definitely the safest way to make sure that you hear about anything that I'm putting forth, because I announce everything there.  ANDREW: Nice. Well, thank you so much for making some time and coming on the podcast today. It's been great.  SIOBHAN: Awesome! Thank you for having me!

TeeDee and Andrew talk about the values of initiation. How it changes a person and how that enhances ones talents. They also talk about Oshun and how Teedee understands her after 20 years of initiation.  Connect with TeeDee on her website. Think about how much you've enjoyed the podcast and how many episodes you listened to and think consider if it is time tosupport the  Patreon You can do so here. If you want more of this in your life you can subscribe by RSS , iTunes, Stitcher, or email. Thanks for listening! If you dig this please subscribe and share with those who would like it. Andrew   ANDREW: Welcome to another installment of The Hermit's Lamp podcast. I'm here today with T-D González, who I know from the Orisha community, and who has been making some wonderful product and really representing some of the things that I think are significant and important about both tradition and initiation. So, for folks who don't know you, T-D, who are you? What are you about? T-D: [laughing] So, I am an Olorisha of the Afro-Cuban Lucumí tradition, initiated to the Orisha Ochún. I was ordained in Cuba in 1999. I live in Los Angeles, California. I'm a mother of two little boys. I'm a widow. I have a lot going on. And I've enjoyed making spiritual baths, which was one of the first things that I learned, one of the first things that many of us learn in the religion. And I've been doing that for about 20 years now, and I just recently began to sell a dried spiritual bath utilizing the herbs that we use in Orisha worship, in Lucumí Afro-Cuban Orisha worship that pertain to Ochún, so it's an Ochún bath. And I'm really excited about it, I love making it, I love working with the herbs, and it's a lifelong learning process for me.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm, yeah, it's awesome. I think we need to definitely talk about the herbs but the first question that I want to kind of start with us talking about is, who is Ochún?  T-D: [laughing] ANDREW: Right? And I ask this because, you know, I had David Sosa on a while back, and we talked -- T-D: Mmmhmm, mmmhmm, my dear friend.  ANDREW: Local human. And, I think it's really important because I think Ochún is, possibly from what I see, one of the most popular of the Orishas, and yet so much of what I see, in general conversation from, you know, people outside of the tradition doesn't often jive very well with my understanding of her from a traditional context at all. T-D: Right. ANDREW: And even in the traditional context, you know, I mean, some of my elders basically say, well she's kind of unknowable.  T-D: Right. And she's a deeply misunderstood Orisha.  ANDREW: Right! T-D: She's very popular and well loved, probably because of her beauty and because of her dominion over some of the aspects of life that obviously all of us are striving to attain or to enjoy.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: But she is deeply misunderstood. So -- And she means different things, probably, to different people, even among initiates. ANDREW: Yeah. T-D: I see Ochún as elegance and beauty, but maybe not necessarily in the most apparent ways or in the most superficial ways. And I definitely see Orisha as working through other people. So Ochún for me is a motherly figure -- ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: And she's forgiving and she's understanding and she's compassion, but she also can be stern, and she also can teach us very difficult lessons. And she also demands respect. And she demands regard for the counsel that she gives us, you know.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: So, in some ways I always say, you know, I'm a little bit afraid of Ochún. I'm dedicated to her, I'm crowned to her, I love her, obviously, I've dedicated my life to Ochún, and she's blessed my life in many many ways. But Ochún is not an easy crown to wear. People make lots of assumptions about her children and things of that nature. Ochún is a very complex Orisha. On, you know, in the most basic terms, you know, we can say Ochún is a healer, Ochún heals with fresh water, Ochún also makes herbal decoctions, Ochún is a diplomat, Ochún is an astute businesswoman, Ochún is multifaceted, she's an incredible cook, she's a wonderful and caring mother, she's a wonderful mate, there are many aspects of Ochún. And obviously, then there is the connective part of Ochún in terms of sparking human connection between one another.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: One of the praise, Oríkìs or praise names for my aspect of Ochún, is Oneabede. A bede is that long brass needle that's used to sew nets. So we can say she knits together the fabric of families ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: Or the web of societies. We could just go on and on.  ANDREW: For sure, yeah. And I think about Ochún in my life, who's been, ever since I, ever since I sort of entered the religion in about 2000, she's been a constant. Right? She's always standing up for me, always there to help me, you know, always showing up when I need something ... T-D: And she's a fighter! [laughing] ANDREW: She is a fighter, right? And like you said, she demands her respect in a way that is unquestionable, you know? So before we do a ... what's called a reading of entry ... T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: Which is before you get crowned, there's a reading that gets done to make sure that everything's good for the ceremony space, right?  T-D: Right. Mmmhmm. ANDREW: Has everything been covered, do we have all the right things, is there some unexpected problem?  T-D: Right. Some call it the vista or the obo de entrada, or, you know.  ANDREW: Yeah. And Ochún, in my reading of entry, showed up and says, "So no matter who's marked as your mother this weekend, I'm always your mother."  T-D: Right. ANDREW: And I was like, "That's right, Mom, you are!" You know? And that continues. And it's definitely that respect piece, but, it's also ... There's a profound intelligence?  T-D: Absolutely. ANDREW: That I think that gets overlooked ... T-D: Absolutely. ANDREW: And that diplomat, that business piece, that ... T-D: That social intelligence, that's really really important. You know?  ANDREW: Yeah. Mmmhmm. T-D: It's really important. And the whole piece of love, love goddess, and that whole thing, procreation, productivity, which she kind of dovetails, obviously, with our supreme, you know, Obatala, is, I think that the element that has to do with love speaks to self-love. And self-acceptance. And self-forgiveness. As much as anything else. It's not always a sexual kind of thing, you know, and attracting the things that we want to -- Ochún has a lot to do with attraction, Ochún has a lot to do with transformation, but it's not always in a sexual way. It can sometimes be and obviously it is, but those aren't the only, you know, avenues for that element in our lives. ANDREW: Yeah, for sure. So, I think I'm just going to have to collect a bunch of children of Ochún speaking about her nature over time on this podcast.  T-D: And I'm sure you'll get 50 different answers -- ANDREW: Yeah! T-D: From 50 different children of Ochún, but -- ANDREW: It will be beautiful. T-D: I want to speak to this thing that you talked about, this whole thing of aché, that we know that we're born with aché, right, and so this aché is this divine, if you want to call it grace, if you want to call it energy, you know, different people call it different things, we're all born with this, right, and we're all made up of this. And some of Vershare's writings even allude to the idea that Oldumare is aché, that God Almighty is aché. We're born with it. And we have our gifts and our grace and our energy, but then to actually be ordained as a priest is to receive the specific aché that we require in order for us to ethically fulfill our destinies, right? That's this idea that we chose a path, that we chose a destiny before we were born. And that we require this aché of these Orishas that we receive aché of, in order to be whole, in a sense, right? Or to be fully aligned with our higher selves. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: And so when we receive this aché, this aché that we receive is not the same aché that we're born with. It's really an amplification, an augmentation of what we have. And then it's almost like, you know Willy talks about this in some of his classes, the oreate ritual specialist Miguel Ramos, talks about this idea that it's almost like you have a bank account deposited of aché. ANDREW: Mmm. T-D: And then you receive, you know, augmentations to that from ceremonies or initiations or additional rites that you undergo.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: And then your behavior and your character help to augment that or to multiply that or deplete it depending on how we conduct ourselves. So those are kind of some avenues or some conversations about aché, and then obviously we have the aché of our, of the Orisha to whom we're primarily dedicated as priests.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: And I think we work for the rest of our lives to kind of develop that and grow that thing, and -- ANDREW: Yeah. And I think there's one other piece that sort of falls into that as well, right? Is that we are initiated, and we receive the energy, the aché -- T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: The grace, right?  T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: The connection to the spirit and so on, right?  T-D: Yes.  ANDREW: But we also are initiated into a lineage. T-D: Absolutely!  ANDREW: And we are connected to this line of people and Orishas and aché that go back -- T-D: Absolutely. ANDREW: As far as we can remember. T-D: Absolutely. Absolutely. That's essential. ANDREW: And I think that this notion of, or this practice of, being initiated into a lineage also adds to it, because ... T-D: Absolutely. ANDREW: It gives us permission, or some people might use the word license -- T-D: Right, licencia. Mmmhmm. ANDREW: To work with these spirits, and it forms a contract or a ... you know, most often talked about, like a family bond, right?  T-D: Right.  ANDREW: Because we use the word egun, which means ancestors ... T-D: Right. ANDREW: And when we use the word egun, we mean our ancestors by blood, our family ... T-D: Right.  ANDREW: And our ancestors by initiations -- T-D: Or by lineage, right.  ANDREW: And I think that this conjunction of the two forces, right? The energy that we receive directly from people, from our ceremonies, and from the spirits themselves, and that energy that we can access and that we can work with through working with these ancestors, I think that that combination really is where the magic happens? T-D: Absolutely. I agree with you wholeheartedly, cause you're calling on that energy.  ANDREW: Yeah! T-D: You're calling on that energy before we do anything, right?  ANDREW: Yeah. T-D: When we recite our mouba, we're literally praising God and the deities and the elements and we're literally calling the names ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: Of those who came before us, of our lineage, and we're calling the names of those exalted priests who existed before us even from outside of our lineage ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: I think that's essential. And yeah, that absolutely speaks to that concept of ritual license. That aché that you receive as an initiate endows you with something that will develop in time with training into ritual license and the ability to perform and to function as a priest on behalf of yourself, on behalf of others, to benefit the community, absolutely. And that is an essential piece, and it speaks to what the Cubans call fundamento, because if you don't have that you're just kind of floundering, fooling around, and this is not that type of thing. And there are absolutely different spiritual traditions and there are people who are born with deep gifts ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: With deep connections to their own ancestors, to their own spirit guides. There are people who have to do little to no work to have the things that they do flourish, but Orisha worship is different from those types of systems and traditions. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: This is absolutely a communal system that requires ordination, initiation, training at the foot of elders, recognition by one's elders. As I said, this is definitely a learning path ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: That one sets their foot upon and they will continue to learn for the rest of their lives.  ANDREW: True. T-D: My mother in law lives with me. She's 85, she just celebrated her 60th year as an Olorisha of Ochún, she has crowned many godchildren, she's a wonderful Diloggún diviner, she is an incredibly knowledgeable herbalist, she's just an all-around Olocha of the type that was fairly common 60 years ago when people were kind of all living on that island in that environment and didn't have, didn't function or have to deal with some of the stresses of a modern life in a large place, you know? And she still reads, and she still studies, and she still learns, and she still asks questions in rituals. And she may be one of the -- she's definitely one of the most knowledgeable people, you know, functionally, in terms of ritual competence, that I know. And so it just tells me, this is a learning path, we're on this path for life.  ANDREW: Yeah, I think it's, I think that it's really a significant point, right? I think that a lot of people have a notion about spirituality, whether it's this path or another path, and I know when I was younger I had this notion, that we will at some point arrive. T-D: Right.  ANDREW: At some point we will get there, and we will be, we will know the things, we'll stop having questions ... T-D: Right. ANDREW: We'll stop whatever, right? And, you know, I mean, I look at the elders that I know, and they're always still asking questions, right?  T-D: Right.  ANDREW: And it's one of those things that the more I learn about these traditions, and even in my Western mystery stuff, even though I decided to walk away from that path ... T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: I could see how much more there was to learn, and that it was infinite, right?  T-D: Right.  ANDREW: And I think that it's really important to cultivate that sort of curiosity and engagement, right? T-D: Absolutely. ANDREW: I also think it's interesting, cause you brought up, and I want to kind of talk about this for a bit, before we lose it in the flow of the conversation -- T-D: Okay. ANDREW: That distinction between like Espiritismo, and muertos, like spirits of the dead, right?  T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And, you know, what we would call, what more people might call spirit guides ... T-D: Right.  ANDREW: You know, guardian angels?  T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: You know, in the sense of like, some spirit that looks over us, and, what do you see as the role of those spirits in your life or in people's lives in general? Because I often see people conflate them with Orisha or with other things, and I'm curious. T-D: Right. And it's -- it's easy to do, especially when we are in a tradition where many of us, and most of our elders even, will use the word egun for everything, right? Anything that's dead is egun. ANDREW: Right.  T-D: So, even if they're talking about spirit guides, which we would say muertos, or guías, or protectores, or even ... ANDREW: Ada Orun. T-D: Right, Ada Orun, or even Ada Orun, it's easy to flip that tongue. ANDREW: Yeah. T-D: But yeah. Or even where they, some people talk about -- sorry -- even they use the word egun, people who are practitioners of Palo. So it just kind of gets thrown across the board. So it's -- I think it's important for us to be able to kind of designate or understand the differences, so we don't have this kind of totally crucado kind of crossed up situation, but I think that they are important. I think that a lot of that kind of -- I don't want to call it confusion, but kind of mixed up language, comes from the fact that we are ... Our religious practices and our spiritual practices descend from multiple ethnic groups of people that intermixed together in one geographic location, and so we have people practicing multiple spiritual traditions, you know, again, there's a creolization, it's not just strictly this Yoruba thing, because this is not just a Yoruba religion any more, in terms of the ethnic group. And it hasn't -- it hadn't been that way in a long time in Cuba or Brazil either. And now even more so, it is not, because we've got this kind of universal religion now, where people of different races and ethnic groups and backgrounds are practicing these religions, so. Excuse me. But back to your actual question was, I think that spirit guides have a very important place, I think Espiritismo has an important place in the overall practice of Afro-Cuban religion, because I believe that it fills in some gaps that were missing, and this is one school of thought. There are many schools of thought; there are others who will disagree. And I don't necessarily think -- I don't think it's filling in gaps that have to do with egun or ancestral practices, the more I learn about traditional Yoruba religion and the more that I study and read about that, it seems almost like Espiritismo tape kind of fills in some gaps that are missing with Egbe worship, that did not transfer to the New World. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: And so, oftentimes you'll hear Yoruba scholars describe Egbe as Yoruba Spiritism.  ANDREW: Yeah. T-D: Because Egbe is not an Orisha, and it's not one entity, it's like a group of entities that exist in the spiritual realm, and so the more I read of that and learn of that, I see, or I believe, I'm led to believe, that perhaps this filled in a bit of a gap where that was concerned. But I think for all of us, I mean, I come from a house where a lot of Espiritismo is practiced. My elders are espiritistas. I was married to a Palero and espiritista, and I just see how it functions in the life. Once people become developed, it can just help you in so many ways, just in so many little practical ways. But it is a separate practice from Orisha.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: And so I think what often happens is, people who are outside of the religion, who do not have elders, are being led by spirit guides to do things, and they believe that they are interacting with Orisha. And, I just don't think that's the case. So all these girls that you see on Instagram and other forms of social media building these empty altars, altar tables, or they're calling them shrines, that don't have any Orisha in them with all kinds of pretty little knick-knacks and afefedes and mirrors and compacts and things -- those are likely -- I believe the impetus for that is a spirit guide that's pushing them to do that. But they just think it's Ochún. Or they think it's Yamaya. And so they've set up their altar, you know. That's what they really believe, and I think that push is so strong coming from those guides that it's pushing them to do something and they are doing something. And these dreams that they have that they're ... ANDREW: Mmm. T-D: You know, that they may be misinterpreting cause they don't have elders to guide them.  ANDREW: Well, and I think that there's an important sort of magical concept at play that people lose track of, or they don't like it.  T-D: Okay. Mmmhmm. ANDREW: Which is, when spirit speaks to us, right? They can only speak to us through our conscious and our unconscious, right? And so that communication is very easily flavored. Right?  T-D: Okay. [nodding] ANDREW: By our ideas, by our hopes, by our aesthetics ... T-D: Right. ANDREW: By our concepts. And this ... The capacity to differentiate between different kinds of spirits or, you know, whatever, right?  T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: I think is very difficult. And if a spirit shows up and wants to help you, and you're like, "Please be Ochún, please be Ochún, please be Ochún," and it's ... It's kind of in that neighborhood, you know?  T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: Like, overlaps with that energy, of course that communication is going to get covered with that, right?  T-D: Right.  ANDREW: You know, it's gonna, it's gonna get clothed in those symbols and ideas, right?  T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: You know? And I think that it's really interesting to sort of try and understand how those communications and how those things happen, right?  T-D: It does. ANDREW: And I think sometimes it's an ego piece. Sometimes it's an unconscious piece. Sometimes it's ... You know, sometimes it comes from the spirit too, right?  T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: You know? But I think that it's really important for people who are exploring in directions like this to, you know, to try and be clear about it and to, you know, if you're looking to go in those directions, you know, considering looking for more traditional verification, you know?  T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: Because that's gonna be way more fruitful over time. T-D: Yeah. ANDREW: You know? Because the challenge that I've noticed with a lot of people is, they get pulled into something and into working in a direction, and then they don't know where to go, and the spirit can't guide them further, and so then they get stuck and their life becomes, you know, not what they hoped it would be.  T-D: Right.  ANDREW: Or they have problems, and not because the spirit's necessarily making them, but because it can't take them anywhere else ... T-D: Right.  ANDREW: And then, and then they become disenfranchised, or bitter, or they get deeper issues kind of emerging from that, right?  T-D: Yeah. An important factor, I think, is [sigh]. I don't want to throw this all on millennials this or millennials that.  ANDREW: Uh huh. T-D: But, you know, different age cohorts do have some tendencies and so we may see a lot of this with millennials not wanting to, you know, follow the rules, or have guides, or submit themselves to elders, or this kind of thing, but I think it's important to just kind of lay it out on the line, that, number one, one factor that isn't necessarily specific to millennials, is that you have people who are kind of -- they may be rejecting, or seeking something outside of the Abrahamic traditions, and so when they find other religions or Afro-Caribbean spirituality, they may be operating under the misconception that because there's not a church per se, that these are not structured religions that have orthodoxy. ANDREW: Right.  T-D: And so that can create conflict and a lot of problems. Because these are very structured religions. There is orthodoxy. They are hierarchical religions. They are oral traditions, largely, even though now we have more learning resources that are not ... ANDREW: I think that that is actually, you know, I mean, I'm, I don't know about the millennialness of it ... T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: I mean, you know, I think that the issues ... Every generation has their own ideas, right?  T-D: Right. ANDREW: But I certainly think that being ... Everybody in this day and age who has access to the Internet, right? has ideas.  T-D: Mmmhmm, mmmhmm. ANDREW: And the amount of people who show up in my orbit who have sort of notions that they've picked up from somewhere that are really quite not traditional, you know? I think it's because of this flood of information ... T-D: There is. ANDREW: And people want it, and so much of it is ... It's kind of half-baked, you know?  T-D: It is. There's a lot of incorrect. I mean there are people ... You can go on YouTube and there are people who have tens of thousands of followers who are not giving accurate information. Or who are giving information or who have a perception or what they're voicing is really not orthodox or traditional at all. And so then when someone comes in contact with people who are part of the community and they encounter that orthodoxy, it might throw them off.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: Or even put them off. You know?  ANDREW: Right. T-D: Which I think is unfortunate. But I think, you know, there are some aspects of the religion that you can access, just in terms of historical facts, you know? This started out, you know, as an imperial religion that was a part of a culture that believed in the divine right of kings and that the kings are direct descendants of Orisha ... ANDREW: Sure.  T-D: And, you know, us, we're, our practice comes largely from the Oyo empire, and so there's lots of structure and strictures and all that kind of thing that exists. It's not just this free-flowing kind of whatever you feel type of thing. And so, I think it's important for people to kind of at least try to learn a little bit about the historical stuff. Just take bites of it, you know?  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: Cause that will kind of put you in a better place, really, than just watching lots of YouTube videos ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: And things like that.  ANDREW: I also think it's interesting because I think that a lot of people who I run into who come into the tradition or are considering coming into the tradition, right, or are coming for a reading or something ... T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: I feel like a lot of them don't know what to do with the reading that they get, right?  T-D: Mmmhmm, got it. ANDREW: Someone shows up and they get a reading, and they come in a sign, and it comes out that everything's firm and solid and good, you know?  T-D: [laughs] Mmm. ANDREW: And then the reader's like, "Well, the Orishas love you, hugs and kisses, see you later," and they're like, "What do you mean?" T-D: Wow. ANDREW: "What do you mean?" Right? "What do you mean?"  T-D: Right. That's problematic too, obviously.  ANDREW: Right?  T-D: Because those Odos, those divination pattern, which we call Odu, have inherent messages in them. ANDREW: Sure. T-D: And some of them admonish the diviner to speak the more -- I don't want to say negative, but negative side of the pattern, and to give warnings, and --it's a message -- ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: That they're kind of -- As a priest, you know, we have Ita, which are a number of life divinations, but it's the same concept as a road map. One may be temporary while the other may be permanent ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: But it's still a road map for you to follow for your life, and so even if it's just dealing with a specific point in time and a specific situation, I think, you know, obviously, a lot of people are performing readings [sigh] who just are not conscientious ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: About the work that they're doing.  ANDREW: Right. T-D: It's not just about marking an ebbó or an offering or a sacrifice that you can then charge the person for you to perform. You're really -- It's a connection, right? Between the Ori of the person who's come to receive the reading and the diviner connecting with Elegua, and giving them this message that they require, and so I think that is really important in terms of fully exploring and investigating the message of the Odu that's fallen, and taking the time with someone who is not in the religion. You know? When someone comes for a first reading, it's really important to explain to them what that's going to involve, and what it means, and what to expect, on top of what the actual message is going to be.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: Because as we know, it's easier to lose the blessings that are being foretold than it is to convert negativity that's being expected into blessings. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: You know, so, it's a highly responsible task to perform a reading for someone, whether it's a Diloggún reading or a spiritual reading. It's a highly responsible task and the person who's performing that reading needs to take it seriously and they need to convey that level of seriousness and sacredness to the person who's coming to receive the reading. It's not a game or a parlor trick. It's a connection with ... to the divine. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. Yeah. And it's also not ... although it has the appearance of fortunetelling sometimes ... T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: Like, "hey, watch for this thing ..." T-D: Right. [nodding] ANDREW: It's also not fortunetelling, right?  T-D: And the diviner needs to make that clear, also. You know, that this is not fortunetelling.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. And it's also ... The advice about what you don't do is SO important and ... T-D: It really is. ANDREW: Or maybe more important than what you do ... I mean … They're both important, right?  T-D: Right. ANDREW: And this notion of the way in which taboos are handed out, right?  T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: "Don't do this thing, don't do that thing." I think is something that is also very complicated for people sometimes.  T-D: It is.  ANDREW: Especially because sometimes those connections are super obvious, right?  T-D: Right.  ANDREW: Like, you came in a sign that says your head's not very clear, don't drink. Right?  T-D: Right.  ANDREW: Eh, it's easy to understand, right?  T-D: Right. ANDREW: But some of the other connections are less clear, right?  T-D: Right.  ANDREW: And ... and yet ... they still need to be abided with, and that's sort of ... T-D: Right. And so maybe the diviner could help that person ... you know, kind of give them some insights into it. You may not hit on the exact thing, that that taboo or prohibition pertains to for that person, but it gets them thinking along those lines. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: You know. Don't eat this thing. You know, maybe that thing would make you sick, or maybe when you go to have it, you're going to be at someone's house and it's not going to be well-prepared ... ANDREW: Right. T-D: Or maybe you'll need to make that as an offering one day and it'll save you so it's more of a medicine.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: You've got to kind of open the way that person perceives that prohibition. So that they can think about it differently than just, "I can't have that thing."  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: You know. ANDREW: People don't like to be told they can't have things.  T-D: Right. None of us like that, you know? [laughs] ANDREW: So, every time you sit on the mat, be like, "Please don't take away something I like."  T-D: Don't take away. Any time you receive another Orisha with any ties, like "oh, don't tell me I can't have this thing." ANDREW: Exactly.  T-D: But you know that it's important to observe those taboos because you've chosen this path as your life path ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: But someone who's just going to receive a reading may not understand that, you know, for the next 30 days, or depending on, you know, how you were taught, the next however long amount of time, while this Odu, while the energy of this divination pattern is around you, you need to, you know, refrain from doing this thing or that thing or engaging in this or that or eating this or that.  ANDREW: Yeah. For sure. So, I'm going to switch topics a little bit here ... T-D: Okay. ANDREW: Kind of, kind of but not ... T-D: Uh oh! [laughs] ANDREW: So, we've been talking about aché, right?  T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And, one of the things that I've found fascinating was watching the way in which you described your process around making these new baths that you're offering. Right?  T-D: Okay. Yes.  ANDREW: You know? And, I mean, can you talk about it, because I think that the commitments to putting your energy into it, and the hands-on-ness of it, I think is fascinating to me, and so I'd love you to share some of that for people to understand.  T-D: Oh my goodness. So, I think it's -- There's obviously a little -- This is an unorthodox type of bath, the first bath that I'm offering as an Ochún bath. It's unorthodox in the sense that most people here in the States who practice the religion perceive Orisha herbs as just the herbs we use to consecrate heads and consecrate Orisha. And they're always fresh herbs that we work with. And the herbs that we use for spiritual baths -- Obviously people in Florida and other places, they may use fresh herbs. But in the Afro-Cuban practice, there are some herbs that get boiled. Plenty of herbs are dried, it's fairly common. It's very common for Paleros to work with dry herbs. And so, I'm using -- I'm making a dried herbal product. I'm growing most of the herbs myself. I'm washing them and drying them and confecting the baths with them. And because I'm a one woman show and I'm just starting to do this, I'm labeling all of my tea tins myself by hand, and some of the labels I kind of make, they're not really labels, I wanted it to look a certain way, and I wanted it to have kind of a vintage apothecary look, and I wanted there to be some texture. So I ended up doing a lot more kind of physical hands on -- ANDREW: Cause-- T-D: Crafting, then I had originally thought. ANDREW: You've skipped over a little bit, though, right?  T-D: I skipped over a lot! ANDREW: You're growing the herbs -- T-D: [laughing] Yes. ANDREW: And then you're picking them -- T-D: Right. ANDREW: And then you're hand washing them all, right?  T-D: Yes, and I'm drying them. ANDREW: And then you're hand drying them -- T-D: Right. ANDREW: So that they can them be properly dried -- T-D: Right. ANDREW: And cured. T-D: Right. Cause I want them to be properly dried and cured.  ANDREW: And not like moldy and disgusting, right?  T-D: Right. I didn't want them to be moldy or disgusting, and yes, I live in southern California where it's pretty dry, so it's not like I have a big issue with anything getting moldy or disgusting. ANDREW: Yeah. T-D: And I have some nice drying racks that I hang that are like the ones that people might use for tea or other herbs. And in terms of the confection of the baths, it's kind of an unorthodox thing cause there's a lot of praying and singing and not the same exact kind of ora that would go on to make omearo, but some of that, you know, a good little bit of that. There's not divining going on but there was some divining going on in terms of what my ingredients would be for the bath -- ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: And there was consulting with my own elders about that. So -- And I do have some really good teachers. As I've mentioned, my mother in law, my madrina, I also work with my Olua here in Los Angeles who is actually a sustainable gardening specialist, and my other Olua teacher, Luis Marín who lives in Maryland who is an expert herbalist, and he practices achéche, traditional Yoruba Ifa but he's initiated to Elegua in the Lucumí system. So I do have some really knowledgeable teachers to confer with. But in terms of the actual process of it, yes, I'm [laughing] -- you know, I'm making it the way that I would make a bath for someone who came to me to make a bath for them. So, and I sing when I work. I sing when I do a limpieza or, you know, spiritually clean the house. And this is an Ochún bath, so I sing Ochún songs and I sing Osayin songs.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. And -- T-D: And I open my work, I actually stand in front of my shrine and I ring my Ochún bell and I recite oríkì and I pray to her before I start my work, and then when I'm finished making the batch of the bath, and I do small batches, when I'm finished I go back and I pray to her and I sing, and I recite oríkì and prayer and once it's done I light a candle and I sing some more -- ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: And I leave it there at the foot of my Ochún. ANDREW: Yeah. T-D: And sometimes I put my Ochún sopera on top of it! [laughs] ANDREW: [laughs] Just put a little extra of that energy in there! T-D: Yes!  ANDREW: Fire it up a little further?  T-D: I do. ANDREW: Yeah. T-D: I do, and so, and I want to say, you know, this concept of kind of making magical things, you know, I feel, obviously that the power is inherent in the herbs that I'm working with and inherent in the Orishas and I just have an unwavering faith in that.  ANDREW: Mmm. T-D: So, and I have an unwavering faith in my elders and in my lineage and that they put Ochún in my head and they did it properly and they've taught me, and I've conferred with them and that I'm doing this properly, and I do it with a lot of love, honestly. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: A lot of love, and heart, and I say a lot of prayers for -- I'm so emotional, you have to forgive me -- for the people who would use this bath, you know, I pray for them, that they should have good health and that they should have happiness and love in their lives and that they should love themselves and accept themselves, and that they should have prosperity and that goodness should flow to them and to their lives. And so I do a lot of that because that's what I know and that's what I've seen when rituals are performed for me, people pray for me, people pray for my children, and so I pray for the benefit of anyone who would touch anything that I put my hands on, you know.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. Yeah. And I think that, to me, there's that, what I hear and see and what you're talking about is this sort of both the depth of experience, the history of the tradition, right?  T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And that sort of connection to aché and to lineage, right? And I think that, you know, it's -- it goes even beyond just some of those things, right, because it's also your aché, right?  T-D: Right. ANDREW: Like you can accomplish these things partly because it's in you from your destiny to do so as well, right?  T-D: Right. ANDREW: Like not everybody is meant to be an Ochunista or, you know, an herbalist, or whatever, right?  T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: We all have different graces and strengths, and I think that that capacity and attention is so wonderful, right? And, you know, how many, if you count the growing of the plants, how long is it from start to finish before one of these comes out in a tin, right? It's a long time. T-D: It's a long time, it is. And I think that from the beginning, my godmother did always kind of try to motivate me to learn about the plants -- ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: And I said, "oh, it's just too much, it's overwhelming, ah," you know, I like to make the baths, I'll use this, what I know, I'll use that ... But as, over time, you know, little by little, you look, and you have more and more plants, and then I married a guy who was a Palero, so there were more and more plants.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: So you just learn, you don't take it all in one big bite, or one big gulp. ANDREW: Right. T-D: There's no way you can do it! And I don't know the Oju this is associated with, it's “bit by bit we eat the head of the rat,” you know ... ANDREW: Right. T-D: It's this idea, the head of the rat has very little sharp bones in it. And so if you're gonna eat that meat, which is a delicacy, right, for our ancestors, our spiritual ancestors, you have to eat it very very carefully. And so, it's a very slow and kind of careful process. And I don't perceive myself as being particularly knowledgeable. I perceive myself honestly as a rank and file Olorisha and I've been very fortunate and blessed to have some really knowledgeable elders who have shared with me and I will spend the rest of my life learning more about herbs and growing herbs and continuing to take classes, continuing to ask questions of other people older than me and younger than me. And maybe one day, you know, 30 years from now, I'll be an Oceanista ... ANDREW: Uh huh. T-D: But, you know, this project, if you will, is just an incredible, an extraordinary opportunity for me, and I love it, and [shrugs], that's all I can say, I love it, and I wish I had begun with more gusto 20 years ago and not felt ... not allowed it to make me feel so overwhelmed. And I also find it interesting that I've received lots of comments and feedback, you know, from elders who are espiritistas, who say "Oh, al fin tu estás haciendo trabajo de tu muerta principal," like, you know, "finally you're doing this work that, you know, that your primary muerta's been trying to get you to do for years and years." And, you know, I have been told of her, and I knew of her, but I didn't really understand that she was an herbalist. I saw her working over a pot, you know, a caldero, kind of bent over, sitting down, and her hands are moving. You know? And I would say that. And my madrino was like, "What did you think she was doing?" [laughs] "What did you think she was working on over that pot?"  ANDREW: [laughing] Yeah. T-D: You know, she was working with barks, and bottles, and ojas, and herbs, and leaves, and stuff, you know. ANDREW: Yeah. T-D: But it's a process and I think it comes to us when we're ready. When we're ready for it and open to it.  ANDREW: Yeah. T-D: And sometimes it has come to us little by little over time and we didn't even realize it and then we looked up and said, "Wow! Where did all these doggone plants come from?" ANDREW: Exactly, right? Yeah. Yeah. I think that -- I think that that idea of -- Back to this question about guides and spirits that walk with us, you know?  T-D: Yes!  ANDREW: I mean, I think that figuring out how to live with that, and work with them, I think is so important, you know?  T-D: It's essential but it is so hard for some of us. ANDREW: Yeah. T-D: And I'm gonna tell you this, my background, I'm an African American, my family is from New Orleans, so saints and Catholicism and all that was not foreign to me, but many African American people or others who have or Anglo Americans or others who come from a Protestant background, it seems very Catholic to them, and not only that, but it seems very Christian to those who may be looking for something outside of Christianity. And so, until people dig a little bit deeper and really understand about Espiritismo and that they're different and also different ways of working with these spirits, that's when you kind of get that depth or get that connection that, you know, this is something that's really important to me, and when you are surrounded by, or find yourself in the company of people who are really developed spiritually, and how it helps their lives and how it can help your life ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: That's when you start to see the importance of that. And when you -- or the importance just of being able to distinguish between your own fears, or your own ego, and messages that are being sent to you from your guides, you know -- ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: Is hard. And I can say, I lost my husband almost six years ago to cancer. I have struggled financially with two young children, living in a city where the schools were great when I was a child but aren't so great now and have to pay tuition for my kids and stuff like that, and make choices that I didn't think I'd have to make because I didn't think I'd be alone. You know, there's a big difference between two incomes and one income.  ANDREW: Yes. T-D: And I will give the credit 100 percent to my muertos, my spirit guides, my protectors, and my ancestors that even gave me the idea to sell these baths or make them available to the public, something that I love to do -- ANDREW: Sure.  T-D: And that I have been doing for years, and it never occurred to me, and I have been told, Andrew, so many times, you know, "You're going to have a business, you're going to do well at a business one day." Well, I'm not there doing well yet, you know, I'm just starting, but my parents were small business owners -- ANDREW: Yeah.  T-D: And I just never -- and we had a very comfortable life, but I just -- the only thing I was really good at was food things, and food businesses are very expensive and rigorous and require a tremendous amount of capital -- ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: And I just couldn't see that. And so when this idea came to me -- This idea didn't come to me! The idea was given to me. It was a blessing that was given to me. And that just blows me away.  ANDREW: Well, you know, from a certain perspective, right?  T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: So, I started working as a card reader, 15, almost 16 years ago.  T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: You know, I quit my job in advertising and started ... T-D: Wow! ANDREW: Reading cards for a living, right?  T-D: Okay. ANDREW: And I decided that I wanted to make a product.  T-D: Mmmhmm, mmmhmm. ANDREW: And so I started making herbal baths. And this line of baths that I make now.  T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And, you know, I got them in some stores around town, and I did some things with it, and in some ways, that starting point is the starting point of the whole store I have now, where I have a full store now, right?  T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: So, you know, and it comes from that listening in, and leaning in, and being like, "All right, spirits, I can do these things. Oh yeah, I can work on that," and, you know... T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: What comes from that listening, in my experience, especially if we're faithful to it, right? Over time-- T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: Is everything, everything comes from there, right?  T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And I think about, when I show up at the shop, or tonight's Saturday and we're recording and I'm gonna lock up later and go home -- T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: I always lock up everything and sit here and check in with all my guides and my spirits and I thank them for this, and I thank the Orishas when I pray to them every day, because all of this comes from their guidance and their influence, and my work, but -- T-D: And it's a blessing. It's a degree of freedom for your family.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: And when I was a young person, a teenager, I just saw the work, you know, my parents did. And they had multiple small business endeavors, and they were successful, but there was a lot of work.  ANDREW: Sure. T-D: But working for yourself, there's just a degree of freedom, a space for personal expression and creativity, independence -- ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: That you'll never find in corporate America or corporate Canada or in the West, you know ... ANDREW: Corporate anything, right?  T-D: Anywhere, you're just not gonna find that.  ANDREW: It's just corporate Earth now. Isn't that the deal?  T-D: Right. That's what it is, right, globalization. But I just, if I could develop this in time, you know, in a few years or whatever, into something that I could do full time and have a small shop and grow some herbs on the roof, or in the back, or whatever, that is my ultimate goal, and to be able to kind of be there for my kids, and they can come into the shop and go in the back and do their homework and help me carry stuff or whatever ... ANDREW: Yeah. T-D: That's a beautiful way of life, because it allows you to engage in something that you value and something that you can share with the community, that you can share with others, and it allows you to continue to grow -- ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: As a priest, and to grow in your spiritual practice and your knowledge and ultimately, you'll be able to pass that on to other people as well. So yes, definitely, you know, you're someone who I see as a shining example, you know, honestly. ANDREW: Well. Thank you. Well. So, let's see if people want to go and check out your stuff, they should know where to find you.  T-D: Oh, yes!  ANDREW: Where are you hiding out on the web there, T-D?  T-D: So, I have a website, it's https://www.spiritualbathtea.com, and you can order the bath there. It's an Ochún bath for love and prosperity. It has a lot of beautiful things in it. And Andrew, I'll send you one, I know that you're a master bath maker but I'm gonna send you my bath, because it's just like wine, maybe you have your vineyard and I have my vineyard ... ANDREW: Oh yeah, for sure.  T-D: You know, but we can enjoy each other's products of one another's labors ... ANDREW: Absolutely. T-D: And I'll definitely be sending you a bath.  ANDREW: Super. I can't wait!  T-D: But yes, it's got at least five of Ochún's herbs in it, it has more, and it's got some other really nice elements in it that ... it's got three different types of sandalwood in it, it smells really lovely, and it's a really beautiful bath and I've received a lot of really positive feedback about the bath from users, and I love making it and I put a lot of love and care into it. And it definitely gives a new meaning, and you know, the word art, or the word crafts, these have many different meanings, and what were the meanings, the original meanings, of, you know, these things.  ANDREW: Well, you know what, the really funny thing is, you're kind of actually doing what the millennials are doing. T-D: I am?  ANDREW: You are, cause I mean, what I see a lot in sort of the millennial culture, things that people see about that, is this return to hand crafted, to small batch, to stuff made with love, right?  T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: So you see these sort of various things, food wise, and you know, clothing wise and otherwise ... T-D: Right. ANDREW: That, they're not corporate, they're not mass-produced.  T-D: Right. ANDREW: They come from people who have learned how to, you know, hand do things -- T-D: Right. ANDREW: In traditional ways or new ways. T-D: And this will never be mass-produced, ever. ANDREW: Yeah. T-D: It's just not that -- that's not my concept, it's not that kind of thing. So if I wake up tomorrow and you know, Amara la Negra or Beyoncé put me on their, you know, social media, there'll just be a back log, but the order will get filled, but you know, I might buy a couple of those labeling machines, to label my tins, [laughing] or you know, like I said, my dream is to be able to afford to buy 10,000 from China of those fancy tea tins that are already embossed and printed, but the bath is, it's always going to be something that is beautiful, that I'm going to put as much beauty and love and care into as I possibly can, and that my own hands have touched, because that's it, you know, that's where the magic is -- ANDREW: Yeah. T-D: It's multi-- it's multifaceted, right? It's got these different components. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: And so, you've got your spiritual license, your ritual license, your learning competencies, but it's also what you put into that thing, you know?  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: There are lots of people who are well-trained, who are very knowledgeable, and who are duly ordained, who just throw some shit together.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: All day long. And I will never ever do that. Cause that's got a lot to do with personal integrity and accountability to Orisha, too! Why -- I mean, I'm going to try to make the most beautiful thing that I can if it has Ochún's name on it. And when I do my Obatala bath, it's gonna be the most incredible excellent thing that I could ever imagine. ANDREW: Yeah. Because I love Obatala, and he loves me, because he gave me a wonderful husband. You know, I just am always going to do the very best that I can.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: And to try to make something, and plus we want to please people, right? We want people to feel that their money is well spent and that their effort in acquiring the thing is well spent.  ANDREW: Right. T-D: And is special to them.  ANDREW: Yeah. And I know for myself, whenever I'm in a position to represent the religion in one way or another, I feel a lot of pressure.  T-D: Absolutely!  ANDREW: Right? To get it right. T-D: Absolutely! ANDREW: I made an Orisha tarot deck, which is coming out in the fall through a major publisher, right?  T-D: Oh, wow! Okay. ANDREW: And-- through Llewellyn, it'll be out in September. T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And, it took me a long time to make it because I constantly felt this pressure, from me, right?  T-D: Yeah, it's from you, it's just like any overachiever ... ANDREW: Right?  T-D: You're not competing with other kids, you're competing with yourself. [laughing] ANDREW: There's nobody else, it's just me and the art, or you and the bath, or whatever. T-D: Right!  ANDREW: Yeah, no, it's fantastic. T-D: That's definitely what it is. I definitely put my best into it. And I hope that that shines through and that people will see that and just to add one more thing, you know, it's really important, this idea that we have, of that license [sighs]. I just can't really say enough about that, I kind of get emotional about it. You can't create an Orisha bath if you don't have Orishas. ANDREW: Mmm. T-D: You know? And they're certain herbs that belong to Orishas, and all the herbs belong to Osane, but if you don't have the ritual license to work with those entities, how are you creating a bath? How are you creating a ritual? You can certainly do a spiritual bath, you know, working with your spirit guides, and working with your muertos, your protectors and guides, but working with Orisha requires Orisha. Requires consecrated Orisha.  ANDREW: Yeah.  T-D: So.  ANDREW: For sure. T-D: Don't just throw some oranges and some -- ANDREW: [laughing] Cinnamon -- T-D: Yellow flowers and some honey and cinnamon in the bathtub and say that you're doing a bath with Ochún cause Ochún is not there in that bath with you. ANDREW: Yeah.  T-D: [laughing] Not to be snarky! ANDREW: No, I think, I think it's important conversations, right? And I think that one of the reasons why it's my intention to have you and David Sosa and, you know, other traditional practitioners on, is I think that it's really important to have a dialogue about what tradition actually has to offer, right? And I think that it's a thing that's hard to understand, it's a thing that is not obvious in sort of the more modern world ... T-D: Right. ANDREW: And it's not obvious if you didn't grow up in a magical tradition or in a magical, you know, I mean, I had the great fortune to not be raised with any religion ... T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And I discovered Western mystery tradition stuff, and Western esotericism when I was like, 11 and 12, right.  T-D: Mmmhmm, Mmmhmm. ANDREW: So I grew up self-educating myself in a magical approach to the world. T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And I think that's what has allowed me to step into it and into the Orisha tradition so well, is that the only traditions I've ever known have been magical. And spiritual in this way. And -- T-D: Yeah. ANDREW: And were also initiatory, right?  T-D: Mmmhmm, mmmhmm. ANDREW: Right? You know? They're all pieces that I understood from the beginning, kind of coming into this, right?  T-D: Right. ANDREW: I think it's important. T-D: And, it's very important. It's foreign to a lot of people, and, you know, it's important to say, you know, Orisha worship is not a self-initiatory system, it's a communal system, that has an intact priesthood, it has existed for many generations, for thousands of years if you go all the way back -- ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: And it's an ancient religious system that has an orthodoxy and a priesthood and a specific path that one follows and that's very important. And that you cannot, even though the world changes, things change, things evolve, you can't fit Orisha into your own mold or -- ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: Or mold Orisha to fit your lifestyle, in that type of way. It's not that type -- it's a religion, it's a structured religious system. ANDREW: For sure. All right. Well now we've given everybody something to think about!  T-D: Yes. ANDREW: Thank you for making time -- T-D: Thank you! Thank you so much for having me, I really appreciate it, it was very kind of you and I appreciate your time.  ANDREW: Oh, it's my pleasure, thanks.  T-D: Thanks. 

Today's episode "The Babalawo" is about Santeria… the faith, not the song. Unlike the pop tune, not a lot of people know about this mysterious religion. Santería, also known as Regla de Ochá, La Regla de Ifá, or Lucumí, is an Afro-Cuban religion that means the worship of saints. So, you maybe asking yourself, “Javier, where’s the pretend angle here?” Well, this religion in particular gives me the heebie jeebies. I feel like people visit these Santeria priests like if they’re fortune tellers. Are they just taking advantage of people’s emotions or am I discriminating on this faith? Spoiler alert… I’m pretty sure I’m discriminating against their faith. But, I’m better than that right? Are my fears real or is this just a bunch of urban legends? Well, there’s only one way to find out. I need to travel to my hometown of Miami and embed myself in the Santeria community.   First, I had to find a babalawo. What’s a babalawo? A babalawo is a Santeria priest who acts as a medium channeling the prophecy from the Orishas. Orishas are spirits who are a manifestation of the supreme God Olodumare. In this episode, we’ll get into the history and origins of Santeria. I also talk with a Santeria priest and priestess to learn more about their secret rituals.   -----LIES, LIES, LIES----- Has someone ever lied to you? Have you ever lied to protect someone else? Send me your personal story and I'll post it on my Patreon channel.  https://www.patreon.com/pretendradio   If you'd like to submit a story, leave me a voicemail at 919-867-1871 or record your story on your smart phone's voice memo app and email it to me at javier@pretendradio.org.  -----MUSIC----- Theme Music composed by Joe Basile from The Chicken Music and Sound Design. Find out more about Joe and The Chicken at www.thechicken.net Additional music by Podington Bear -----PROMOS----- Promos by: Beyond Bizarre Podcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week Andrew is joined by the wonderful Lucia! A fun, and artisticly rich episode with discussions of their Art, and practice and how it can move us all forward to the future.  Connect with Lucia on her website, and don't forget to check out the Oracle of Initiation while you're at it. Be sure to give her instagram as follow aswell: @mellissaelucia Think about how much you've enjoyed the podcast and how many episodes you listened to and think consider if it is time tosupport the  Patreon You can do so here. If you want more of this in your life you can subscribe by RSS , iTunes, Stitcher, or email. Thanks for listening! If you dig this please subscribe and share with those who would like it.   Andrew       ANDREW: Welcome to another episode of the Hermit's Lamp podcast. I am here today catching up with Mellissae Lucia. Who ... We've been ... I had Mellissae on ... five years ago? I didn't look it up before we started but it has definitely been awhile. And, a lot of things have changed for both of us during that time. But, as we've been going through our lives, I've been watching the amazing artwork, and the sort of interplay of artwork as magic, artwork as divination, artwork as life, that mirrors a lot of pieces of my own journey as well, and, you know, also, the conversations I had in a previous episode with Syrus Ware as well. So, I wanted to have Mellissae on to talk about this and to talk about a bunch of other stuff.  So, if you haven't listened to that first episode, there'll be a link in the show notes. Go find it and give it a listen and freshen up, because we're definitely going to reference a few things from it.  But, for those who haven't been following you, Mellissae, who are you?   LUCIA: Hi! ANDREW: What are you up to? What's going on? LUCIA: Hi Andrew, delighted, delighted to be here!  I am Mellissae Lucia, and I've changed a lot in the last couple years, and I'm very pro name changes [laughs]. ANDREW: Uh huh.  LUCIA: It drives some people insane! But I'm going by Lucia these days, partially because of the graffiti. Also, when I thought about, what's my graffiti name going to be? ANDREW: Uh huh. LUCIA: Lucia came up. ANDREW: Perfect. LUCIA: And so, I am Lucia, and, the people who have known me for so many decades, if you call me Mellissa or Mellissae, it's all gonna work. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. LUCIA: And I am an artist, and an oracle, an empath, an entrepreneur, and I am a person who follows the signs and follows the synchronicities, and has found this ability to have courage, but also joy, drive everything that I do. And, so there's a whole variety of things that I do, from having created a visionary deck in the New Mexico desert, down in graffiti tunnels, called the Oracle of Initiation. I teach online courses, I teach in person, and adventure is the greatest joy of my life. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. Well, so you mentioned one thing in passing here, which I want to sort of talk about first, right? What ... Tell me about the graffiti. [bursts out laughing] ANDREW: Like, what is it about graffiti for you? And even more so, how did that move you to change your name?  LUCIA: [still laughing] Ohhhhh ... Well, I've had a lot of different spiritual names, and Mellissae Lucia is my pen name, and when I was writing my oracle book in ... 2011, that I was writing the book ... to go with this six-year project of making my Oracle of Initiation deck. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. LUCIA: And [sighs], my legal name is Melissa Weiss Steele. So, that's my father's name, and my deceased husband's name, and I like that ... There's a very traditional side to me, actually, that likes the solidness of that name. But I wanted a more magical name and I wanted a name that was going to possibly ... What I found is that mystics, empaths, whatever words you want to call us ... That we struggle with being seen. That there have been so many lifetimes of being killed for who we were that there's some really pretty serious base chakra issues about: Am I going to be taken out in this lifetime for letting everybody know that I'm psychic? ANDREW: Hmm. LUCIA: And you know, creative, whatever, intuitive, words you want to use. And so, Mellissae Lucia--in some ways, it also was Tibetan numerology, so it was designed to be auspicious in abundance and connection. But I wanted it to be this public face, this filter for the woo woo side, of going out into the world. So, I like name changes. And the last couple of years, as I say, I'm gonna be, we're gonna talk about this, but I'm gonna be 50 this year. I'm the happiest I've ever been in my whole life! It's like things have landed. I've integrated. And all of my gifts are now available to me, a lot of them, in ways that I've dreamed of, that I've worked towards for decades. ANDREW: Mmm. LUCIA: So, the Lucia, for the graffiti ... I fell in love ... well, I fell in ... There's a song from ... I mean, there's a phrase from the movie Brown Sugar, about when did you fall in love with hip-hop? ANDREW: Mmmhmm. LUCIA: I fell in love with hip-hop when I was 12 years old, at the middle school. And I was in Seattle, Washington. And this was Grandmaster Flash. So, this was 1980. This gentleman walked behind me, this young guy in middle school, and started singing the words to the song "It's Nasty," which is amazing. And my whole body lit up! And, you know, I was pretty shy as a young one, and I went, "What the hell is that?!"  ANDREW: Uh huh. LUCIA: And, like, it owned me from then on. And I am an 80s/90s hip-hop fanatic, and talk to me about it any time. And to me that's our tribal roots. That's our ... That's the basis ... Those are our bards, our griots, those are our contemporary truth tellers. Hip-hop is one of those places, you know, the tribal beat and all of that. That's why it's worldwide because it's archetypal. So, graffiti is part of that. And when ... In the mid-80s, my mom took me to Paris, bless my mom, and in Paris, they had this stencil graffiti that was INsane.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. LUCIA: The skill level was off the charts of this stencil graffiti that was all over Paris. And I, once again, I'm a very passionate person. I fell head over heels in love with the graffiti. And for some reason, it took me decades to do it myself, but I do wheat paste, and I do my collages, my digital physical collages. And they're very pop culturey, irreverent, punk rock. [laughs] We're both punk rock; that's part of one of our connections, and so ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. LUCIA: But you need it. You need a name, you need a tag. I don't ... I'm not aerosol, so I'm not spraying my tag. But you want to ... This this is a conversation with "Oh, look at that, mmmhmm. There's some of my Andy Warhol..." I've collaged some of the Andy Warhol Polaroids cause they're brilliant.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. LUCIA: But it ... So, the name change, I wanted to name a hashtag, so it's hashtag Lucia graffiti [laughs]. Go on Instagram; it's all over Instagram! ANDREW: Nice. LUCIA: But it's ... It's been this incredible joy, because ... You know Adam Ant, we're gonna bust out the 80s. [singing] "You don't drink, don't smoke. What do you do? You don't drink, don't smoke ..." I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't generally do drugs, but I need some risk. I need some challenge. I need something that's disobedient, that's rebellious. But I choose to not be incarcerated. I choose to not have my life fall apart from addiction, so, I need things that are going to give me that risk, like trespassing, without taking my life. So, graffiti is that for me. It's sharing my art, a conversation with the other street artists, self-sanctifying myself. And I get my risk, my adrenaline risk and I love it. ANDREW: Is that a ... Do you think that's a punk rock thing? Is that also part of your empath stuff? Like where does that need for risk come from?  LUCIA: I am ... I'm a very ... It's funny, if you meet me I actually come across as pretty friendly.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. LUCIA: I'm pretty sweet to a certain degree. I mean if you can read energy, you can tell that there's a lot going on, but generally my public face is pretty friendly. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. LUCIA: Which has its complexities to it. People judge that in some ways. But I can also burn paint off the walls. And so, I think there's always been a broad range of impulses within myself. Like the Martha Stewart side and then this hard-core mystic side. And so, I think that somehow that risk helps me to integrate some of these complexities. Like there's this part of me that's really ancient and doesn't want to become a junkie, but I want some of those feelings of what it might feel like. Or, you know, like have so many sexual partners that you get sexual diseases or whatever. I haven't done that. And so, but I need ... My level of intensity needs that sometimes. ANDREW: Hmm. LUCIA: But I think it is ... I think that's why I was drawn to punk rock, why I am drawn to hip-hop, is that they're very fierce ... ANDREW: Right.  LUCIA: Energies. And they're very rebellious maverick energies. ANDREW: Yeah. I ... Cause I have that adrenaline piece, right? Like I need that kick of adrenaline somewhere, you know? And when I was younger, it used to sort of be ... There was this moment. I went skydiving with a bunch of people I was working with ... LUCIA: [laughing] ANDREW: Everyone's like, "Let's go skydiving." I'm like, "Great, let's go, let's do it, I'm ready." And at the time, I was doing like, downhill mountain biking and full contact martial arts, and like all this stuff. And so, I climbed in the plane with everybody else, and as it took off, I had a little butterfly in my stomach, and then it got to be my turn, and I jumped out, the chute opens, and I sort of float to the ground and so on. And I remember landing and going, "Yeah, that was cool."  LUCIA: [laughing] ANDREW: And everyone else was like, "Oh my God, oh my God, that was the best thing ever!" And like a couple days later, I had this moment of like, I think I need to slow down. I think that I just have such a different relationship to adrenaline, to excitement, and to risk that ... That I was like, I don't know where else this goes, and I don't know that if I allow it to continue ... LUCIA: [laughing] ANDREW: That it doesn't end up unchecked in some really dangerous way, or, you know? The cost starts to get higher and higher, right? LUCIA: Right. ANDREW: So. Yeah. LUCIA: Well, and you're also ... You're a father. So, you're a father and you're a partner. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. LUCIA: And so, I would imagine ... I didn't get kids in this lifetime. But I would imagine that that could be a piece of it. But what do you do now for that need? ANDREW: I rock climb. Like at a gym. So, you know.  LUCIA: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: Relatively safe. But definitely sort of out there, pushing myself, and you know, it's ... You know, when I'm like 20, 30 feet up the wall at the gym, and I'm like, trying to make the next move and don't think I can make it, you know, or not sure I can make it. There's nothing else, right? There's no thoughts, there's no feelings, there's just this complete presence in the moment and the focus on that. LUCIA: Yeah! Yes. ANDREW: And then, either the elation of completion -- Oh, I did make the move! — Or the zing of adrenaline as I miss the move. And then the, and then the, like, oh, and the rope caught me, which is cool, and now I'm going to try it again next week, and next week I'll get it. You know? So. LUCIA: Well, and this is something, this is really beautiful. This is something that I've been thinking about a lot. As I alluded to earlier, I'm 50 this year. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. LUCIA: And I'm the happiest I've ever been. Like some thing, some critical mass, has happened. And being an empath, I've become an empowered empath, is the words that I'm using for it. Now, and I'm still working on articulating this, like I'm catching up with who I am. But there's some piece ... I've been ... Because I'm a teacher, I'm a systems maker, I design online courses, I teach workshops, I'm fascinated with the steps of how you create things. That's ... As I say, I have a very visionary mind. But I also have a very practical Capricorn systems mind: "What are the seven steps that we need? And what are the 14 steps that come off of each of the seven steps?" I love designing things, and so I've been thinking about what happened for me, that was applicable to other people, to have this critical mass of confidence?  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. LUCIA: Because what I found, with empaths, and with people who are pretty sensitive, and so pretty much anybody who's listening to this podcast is an empath, you're gonna be a highly sensitive person.  ANDREW: Most likely. LUCIA: And what I've found ... Right? Right? All of us. That's who we are. And so, I've been sitting with this ... I call it the confidence gap. And I had this for decades, so that's why I understand this. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. LUCIA: Is because we are such weathervanes for other people's issues, because we can feel them, depending on what type of an empath you are. We don't always know our own voice, or our own center, we're usually battered around by everything that's around us, and so what I found was, I became ... My controlling perfectionist would come up.  ANDREW: Mmm. LUCIA: And, what I've done over the last couple of decades ... The couple of things that I've come to at this point ... Like I say, I'm still working on articulating this ... Is courage and joy. But there's this ... For me, there's this critical mass where you have to be willing to step out of your comfort zone over and over and over again. It's like a training.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. LUCIA: It's energetic cross training. But it has to be driven by joy. There has to be some passion at some points and sometimes it's hard. I'm not gonna say it's always a cakewalk. But, those two things ... If you don't have those two things, they work together, like there is this ... You gain the confidence, you gain the power, you gain the ability to trust yourself through doing those things that are out of your comfort zone, but it has to be fun as hell at some point too, to really enliven you and so. Just thinking about, you know, all these pieces that we're talking about, the risk, but also the presence, you know, it's like being in the zone. And everybody has different things that bring them into the zone, but that's what feeds one's ability to be more embodied and confident in yourself. And so, I think that's really important for revisionaries. We're the new myth makers and the visionaries. But so many empaths and incredibly creative people that I know are shut down and really not able to be or willing to be seen in the world and share their gifts because of this confidence gap. And so, you know, it's my soapbox to try to figure out how to help us become more embodied and confident. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. LUCIA: So, I love hearing your risk stuff. That was great. ANDREW: Yeah, and I think that that's ... I mean that's certainly been a lot of my experience, you know, when I was younger, I was definitely shy, and introverted, and so on, you know? LUCIA: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And I don't even remember why it started, but at some point, I decided that if I was afraid of something, I should do it ... LUCIA: Yeah! ANDREW: And if I was really afraid of something, I should do it twice as fast, right? And that led me to the place where I then decided I needed to back off from that, too, but I think, you know, sort of looking at that kind of how do we step into our discomfort and work with that, right? How do we step into that and make magic in that space, right? Because ... LUCIA: Right! ANDREW: You know, it's one of the options that we can use to generate energy. To convert and change it into something else, right? You know? LUCIA: That is beautifully—I'm a big notetaker, I'm a scribe. And when — ANDREW: Uh huh. LUCIA: Because ideas are elusive. This is one of the things I teach people in my courses, is, you gotta write this stuff down — ANDREW: Yeah. LUCIA: Cause it floats through like the wind. ANDREW: Sure. LUCIA: So, I love that idea about how do you create—It's alchemy. I mean it's really, it's alchemy. This —When you step in, when you show up, and you say, "Okay, I'm going to do something that's out of my comfort zone," and you know, I believe we have this whole corporation of guides and ancestors and spirits around us who are supporting us. I ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. LUCIA: You know some of us have the higher self idea that it's all our higher self, and we are in this ascension process, I believe, and becoming gods incarnate. And, I do believe that there are distinct beings that are helping to guide us. And so — and a destiny and all of that — and so, at least what I've seen, is, you show up, you make those leaps of faith, the universe will meet you. Now maybe not in the timeframe. That's another tricky thing, is timing. But you — this doesn't go unnoticed. Like you are building this ... this confidence bank account. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. LUCIA: And so, I, you know, I love that idea, about the magic, the alchemy, of showing up, and then doors opening. ANDREW: Well, you know, for me, one of the things that I've sort of — I've talked about in a few places, like in an episode I did where I was the guest recently with Fabeku, if people want to go back and look at it. But I was talking about these portraits that I do, these magical portraits, you know ... LUCIA: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And how these magical portraits ... And working with portrait and image and you know, playing around with growing my Dali-esque mustache ... LUCIA: [laughing] ANDREW: ... and all these things. They're all acts of magic, right? They're all acts of transformation. They're all me turning this energy back towards myself, and working on that ... LUCIA: Mmm. ANDREW: And one way or another, to liberate that. You know, you're a person who's done a lot of portrait work and also, you know, other sorts of representative stuff with yourself. You know, what are you doing with that these days? How is that in your orbits? LUCIA: Oh, that's such a yummy yummy yummy yummy question. I like flipping paradigms. I think that that's the punk rocker in me! [laughs] ANDREW: Mmmhmm. LUCIA: I like this and the ... You know, the spiritual, mystical teacher/student in me. I like this, you know, it's Oden hanging upside down in Yggdrasil and getting runes, you know, and sacrificing things. I like this idea of flipping things and finding the power in them. And so, something that ... And in my oracle deck, the Oracle of Initiation, that photography series, the painted body, they look—If you haven't seen the Oracle of Initiation—the images look like petroglyphs coming alive off of a cave wall. They are these beings of light, particularly the graffiti tunnel ones. And there's no Photoshopping or editing to the images, and those were done between 2007 and 2008. And that was before the word "selfie" had come into the common lexicon ... ANDREW: Yeah. LUCIA: And, I — they're sacred selfies. There's somewhere between 40 and 50,000 images because it was a ritualistic ceremonial process. I—the camera became—I became one with it. It was held in my hand, but I was dancing between the worlds. They let me take pictures between the worlds. And so, that whole process, that was the enormous game changer, and, as I say, I like to try to figure out how to support other people's transformation. There's only a tiny percentage of people who want to go get nude and tribally painted in graffiti tunnels and on the land and do this. Now the people who want it, want it. But, there is this piece about becoming other through this witnessing process. And so, now I'm doing—you know, what is it, 12 years later? Am I doing the math right? Yeah, 12 years later. I've been ... I have an online class called Sacred Selfies. Now, so selfies get this bad rap. It's like this—it's everything that's wrong with social media. It's these young people, who are self-absorbed, aren't self-referenced, and are trying to get attention, and the duck lips and the tits and It's — no! This is self-portraiture, and witnessing of oneself is an ancient process. And it's a way of recognizing who you are, finding self-authority, self-agency, and it's fun! Like everything that I want to do is fun! It may be intense, but it also needs to be fun. And so, the sacred selfies ... ANDREW: Well, you could go to an art gallery, that has like— LUCIA: Yeah! ANDREW: A big selection of work from the last couple hundred years or the last hundred years anyway, maybe even more ...  LUCIA: Yeah!  ANDREW: You're going to see plenty of portraits of the artists doing portraits of themselves. Right? This impulse to be seen and to understand how we are seen or how we present ourselves in the world is part of the classic human conundrum, right? Like ... LUCIA: It's so simple! ANDREW: That's why we have an ascendant, right? In astrology. Like ... LUCIA: Right! ANDREW: It is an element that is a part of our nature of the world, right? LUCIA: Yes. ANDREW: You know, and I'd be curious, how does our ascendant influence our feeling about selfies? Now there's a wonderful inquiry to — LUCIA: Right! Well, that — ANDREW: Pass on to some of my astrological friends.  LUCIA: [laughing] Ask them! Well, and that's the sacred selfies piece. And Carolyn Myss, one of the teachers, interesting spiritual teachers. She said a really interesting thing some years ago that really struck me. She said, historically, as spiritual beings and guides and teachers, we've done this hollow bone thing. We've done this thing where we want to get out of the way, be an agent of spirit, and just like, the ego is gone. Like, we just are this hollow bone. You know, it's classic, you hear it. She said, particularly since the 80s, we've been doing this interesting thing where we're weaving, or merging, our ego selves, like our earth plane selves, the integrated ego, cause ego's not bad— Ego, if it's in a wounded state, it has its issues— ANDREW: Mmmhmm. LUCIA: But ego, unto itself, you wouldn't get out of bed or be able to interface with people on the earth plane if we didn't have an ego. So, she said what we're doing is, we're integrating this hollow bone, surrender sacrifice sort of a classic historic energy of the healer/transformer, and we're bringing our ego along with it, we're bringing the personality, in a really integrated beautiful expansive way. And I love that! So, to me sacred selfies — that's what you're doing when you're playing with it in a really intentional way like that. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. Well, and I think that, you know, this relationship to the ego and the idea that, you know, I mean, for me, the ego needs to be, to borrow a phrase from like kind of ceremonial magic about this stuff, right? It needs to be redeemed, right? By the higher self. LUCIA: Yes. Yes. ANDREW: But it doesn't get to be abandoned. Right?  LUCIA: No! ANDREW: You know, like if we think that we're going to ditch our shadow self at some point — LUCIA: [bursts out laughing] Good luck! ANDREW: Be free of that business! Right? LUCIA: [laughing]  ANDREW: But like, there's this notion that we'll somehow be complete and free of all of these things, but like, that's not what Jung meant by integration, right? Like, that integration process is a process of having a living, dynamic communication between all of those pieces, that is balanced, monitored, adjusted as it needs to be, and continuous, right? Like, we don't reach the end of the work. Right? You know? And I remember talking to my, you know, one of my Lucumí elders, and he was like, one of the biggest mistakes people make is that they think that being a priest means that this person's going to be perfect or that being a priest makes you perfect. And it's like, it doesn't. You know? It's just another layer of things. And all of your human foibles, and all of your need to do your taxes and all of these other things — LUCIA: [laughing] Ohhhh.... ANDREW: And all of your desire exists, you know? And you gotta roll with it. And you gotta balance it, and you know, work on it, and keep it where it needs to be. It's ... You know, you don't get to take your hand off the steering wheel, right? LUCIA: Right. I love that. I love how you said all of that, that piece is that you — Living, dynamic, communication, and that's what, you know, clearly, culture as we've known it is melting down because it's needed to. Right? Nobody can miss that. And I ... What you are talking about, you know, speaking to your elder about—I call that— This idea— It's very prevalent in our tribe, of spiritual perfectionism. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. LUCIA: And to me, there's this idea, that somehow, I'm supposed to be relaxed, and forgiving, and let anybody do anything, that's bullshit. There is discernment with relationships, with what is going on, and so, I feel, what we're seeing in the outer world and then working through in ourselves, is these last vestiges of these inherited — I called them lineage codes — but inherited shadows, you know, the ugliness of the racism, and the sexism, and all these sorts of things. And that we, you know, there's, we're throwing bombs into these things, and if we popped the boil, it's all out there, you know, it's all been there, but now, it's being seen in a way, in certain communities and certain cultures, it's not hidden anymore, the shit that's going down. And so, you ... Along with the bringing joy into the work that you do, there's also some points where you gotta get real, and figure out how to release and integrate some of this baggage, this, you know, epic baggage, that we've inherited of wounds. ANDREW: Sure. Yeah, I mean, we all come from cultures that have all sorts of unhealthy things in them. You know, I mean, there's no culture that I know of, that I would say is free of it, you know? And, you know, and as we become hopefully wiser, maybe more literate about how bias and prejudice and the, you know, all the effects of history and culture play out, you know, it becomes part of our work to cut that away. And to free ourselves from that, you know? And that's not easy either, right? LUCIA: Nope. ANDREW: Back to the courage piece, you know? It takes courage to look at that and say, "Huh, I was being an asshole there, huh, look at that, that's a really, you know, inappropriate notion, that I inherited from here, from there, from I don't even know where," right? LUCIA: Right. ANDREW: And to have the wherewithal to sort of look at that and try and chip away at that, but in the same way, as the integration process, that's also an ongoing piece of work because, you know, we can only understand as much as we understand and we can only work from what we know, and as we as individuals, and to some extent, you know, collectively, as well, have become clear, and have better models, and an understanding of these things, then we have the space to do more work and to become freer or better integrated still, you know. Yeah. LUCIA: Exactly! That, Andrew! That! [laughing] ANDREW: Just go and do that, everybody! Just go and do those things! [laughing] LUCIA: [laughing] ANDREW: So, one of the things I'm curious about, is, I've been seeing a lot of, in your work and in other places, a return of Dada, and a return of sort of surrealism, you know, and ... LUCIA: Yes.  ANDREW: I've been bringing it back around in my Land of the Sacred Self Oracle that I've been doing, and you've been doing it in your cutout work and in other places. Why do you think Dada is so important? Why is he coming back?  LUCIA: Well, that's a beautiful question. I grew up in a family of professional artists, and what I didn't realize when I was growing up, was that that was uncommon, that everybody didn't get this ... Everybody ... ANDREW: Uh huh!  LUCIA: And my family's amazing. I mean, my family is as amazing as they are wounded, and my family is epically amazing. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. LUCIA: And so, even as a kid, there was this ... What I found is that people who have embraced their curiosity, who have embraced their creativity ... This doesn't always mean your job is going to be being an artist. But this is about being alive, and curious, and full of wonder. This has a very childlike energy in it, in a wonderful way, and so I grew up with people who were always messing around and exploring and breaking outside of boxes and looking at things in different ways. So, we would— One of the classic surrealist Dadaist games is the exquisite corpse.  ANDREW: Mmmhmm. LUCIA: Which you can do with words and you can also — we would do it with drawings — and it's basically this process of taking a piece of paper, folding it into different sections, and deciding if you're going to do a human figure, or just something that's random, and each section that is folded ... A person in a group does some drawing and then continues the lines of that drawing down to the next folded section. Well, then they hide, they fold over their section, so that the next person just sees these leader lines ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. LUCIA: And they start their drawing, you know, they were told they got, you know, the torso or the body. They do their torso of the body and their style with their vibe. And then you unfold it, and you have this miraculous montage, this collage, of everybody's goofy, strange, wonderful ideas of what this figure or open-ended thing was. And it's so delightful! And so interesting, and so strange. I love things that are odd. And I've always loved things that are odd. And odd connections, and so the Dadaists and the surrealists, who were— A couple of movements, if you don't know —Art, cultural movements in the early 20th century, early last century, into the, you know, probably, 40s, 50s — and they were groups who were very connected to dreams, very connected to randomness, they wanted to— I call it getting— I'm going to swear, is it totally bad if I swear here? ANDREW: You've already been swearing. Go ahead. Carry on. LUCIA: So, get the fuck out of the way! Like that's one of my tenets, Because as I said earlier, my empath became very controlling and perfectionistic to try to manage how scary the world was when I was younger, so for me, all of my art Is about getting the fuck out of the way.  ANDREW: Yeah.  LUCIA: And, because I believe that there is this dialogue, this incredible rich dialogue that the universe wants to play with us and co-create with us, and ... But you've got to get out of the way ... ANDREW: Yeah. LUCIA: You've gotta not be uptight. And, let randomness blow you away. And so, to me, I think that part of ... And also, historically ... But particularly the Dadaists were during the first world war. So, they were also reacting to this absolute horror that was happening in Europe, particularly across Europe, of all of that of the war. And so, they were trying to find a way to connect, to humanize, to not lose their humanity, and to try to bring some play and joy into a world that was horrific. And I feel like in some ways, we're there again, in some ways, we're a lot more — I don't know if we're more addicted — but we're more distracted, with the Internet, you know, they didn't have the Internet and things, you know, porn that you can access at any moment. And I'm not anti feminist porn, so don't go there, but I'm just saying this is a distraction for people, and so I think that we are looking, I think people are hardwired for magic, for ritual, for ceremony, for surrender, and I think most people have lost access to that.  So, to me, the surrealism and the Dadaness, and the things that I do where I ... You make your own handmade cards, and I called them funky fortunes, but I have also called them Dada divination, wild style divination ... Is that this is a way to get you out of the way and remind you that the world is enchanted, the world is magic, and there's actually clear directives and messages in that. So that, you know, like you… The Dadaists would cut up, take a poem, cut it up into all of the different words, shake it up in a bag, pull the words out one by one, and glue them back down onto a piece of paper to get this new thing. When you do that, really interesting, not random, NOT RANDOM, things occur. And so, to me, I've done a bunch of videos on unorthodox oracles ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. LUCIA: I like to mess around. I am irreverent. That's the punk, that's the hip-hop in me. So, I think that we are trying to remember that the world is enchanted, trust that in ourselves, and we want that interface as a balm to the world blowing up.  ANDREW: Hm. [cross talking at 33:00] I mean, yeah, I think, I definitely think that ... Well, I think that this notion of re-enchanting the world right, that comes out, I've heard a variety of people talking about it. You know, I think that that's, that's an important thing, right? When people ... I like a quote from Terrence McKenna, right? When you find yourself lost or when the world doesn't make sense, or when horrific things happen or so on, right? When we find ourselves in what feels like it might be a dead end, we start looking backwards for some semblance of sanity somewhat, right? LUCIA: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And, I feel like in this sort of, in the modern era in which we live, you know, there's this weird mix of scientific materialism and fake news and actual war and genocides and horribleness and, you know, all of the race and crimes against women, you know, and all of the things that are going on, as that stuff emerges, it's part of that sort of deconstructing what's going on and seeing what's really happening there, right? LUCIA: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And, not that it hasn't been there all the time but it's more visible than it ever has been, for many people. LUCIA: Yes. ANDREW: Not for everybody.  LUCIA: Sure. ANDREW: Cause, obviously anybody who is the subject of those problems, and crimes, is fully aware. Many communities have always been aware. But ... But like a lot of people start looking backwards for what makes sense, right?  LUCIA: Mmm. ANDREW: And so, there's this sort of return to more magical ways, a lot of people are looking to get back to living magical lives, and the saints are returning to people, in a common practice, LUCIA: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And art is regaining its magic, you know? It's shedding some of this sort of legacy of postmodernism and all that kind of stuff that for me, didn't go anywhere, you know? LUCIA: [laughs] ANDREW: You know, I went to art school and I was fully in all that stuff for a while, which is why I made no art when I left art school. I was like, this is all bullshit, I have no interest in this at all. LUCIA: Yeah. ANDREW: And, it's not that I don't see things in it that could be interesting, but it just wasn't me, right? And so, finding my way back to surrealism and to the magic of those dream and trance states and all of those things — to me that's where a lot of the power is, and that's where the power to change myself and others is, which is what I'm really interested in, you know? LUCIA: Yes. ANDREW: And so, like when I was working on my oracle deck, it would do these drawings, and I would start just by making a shape, right? On the page, or on the screen cause I was drawing digitally. And I'm like, "All right, what's inside the shape?" And then I would like, basically turn it inside out in my mind, and go inside the shape and find out what was in there, and I was like, "Oh! Is there something outside the shape now?" It was this sort of, almost perpetual Escher-like shifting between perspectives. LUCIA: Mmm. ANDREW: And then at the end I was like oh, and now the dream is finished revealing itself, all right, this one's done. Next. And, that lack of trying to control it ... LUCIA: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: I think is so important right? Kind of like your process with your Oracle of Initiation. You know, you didn't sit down and think, I'm gonna control all these things, you went and did a thing, and in that process, that, as you put it, the between the world's vision emerged, right? LUCIA: Oh, I just — Oh, Andrew, I love so many things about what you said. So, you know, part of what I feel really is a natural ability with all humans is ability to be much more intuitive, much more instinctive, and once again, you know, this gets back to the addictions in some ways, and the other people's voices that need to be clutter cleared. I believe that we really all have this ability to be very tuned in ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. LUCIA: But only a certain percentage of people have apprenticed to that skill, and, you do need ... I mean, some people come in with a certain ... I came in obscenely psychic. I am super psychic. And very very very very empathic. For about 20 years, I had a hard time leaving the house. I was in the cave. I was in the mystic's cave for 20 years. But, I do believe that we naturally really have ... And that artists, that's part of what artists apprentice to is this, the muses, the getting the fuck out of the way, whatever you want to call it, and that you, what you're saying about, you do the circle, and then, you like merge into the circle. But like, what's in the circle? Like the circle is this field, this entity, this creation field, and I believe that everybody actually has access to that. You know, there'll be different mediums that people will use in different ways that you use it, but that's what I feel is really something that's lacking is that people's ability to access that because it's SO nourishing on a core level back to this zone.  You know, that's what I found when I made my oracle deck, was this— I went back to what I truly loved. I went back to what the core aspects of myself were and, as I say, this is why, at 50, when, in this culture, for women, you're supposed to be freaked out, because your value is going down, because I still believe, for women in this culture, the main ticket that we have, the main value, is attractiveness, and then that's a massive issue that, we won't go into all that. But I figured out how to tap into and source this massive curiosity and joy and creative passion— obsession, basically, that I have —And it feeds me like nothing else has ever fed me! And so, you know, what you're talking about, I feel like that's just really an enormous piece of everything that we're talking about about the integration and the finding our power, and the living our lives that we want to lead, is this access to this. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. Yeah. Well, it's one of the things that, because I have the store, and stuff like that, people are often asking me, like, "Well, how did you become successful? How did you make all this happen?" LUCIA: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And nobody really likes the answer. LUCIA: [laughing] ANDREW: Cause the answer is mostly I made a lot of art, and I kept showing up. [Laughs] LUCIA: [laughing] ANDREW: And I'm telling them the answer. Right? Because for me, being in that zone and being creative and making things, everything that I need to do to support that shows up when I commit to that process. Right?  LUCIA: Mmmmmmm. ANDREW: And when I don't commit to that process, then everything that I, everything that I do— It isn't always more labored, but it can definitely be way more labored —And I'm like, "Oh yeah, I haven't made art in a couple weeks. Shut up and go make some art, Andrew." And then, all of a sudden, everything flows from there, right? LUCIA: Well, and this, I think that this is some, you know, a piece, we could go back to that piece about courage, courage/dedication is ... Nobody else ... Elizabeth Gilbert's recent book, Big Magic, I feel like it's the modern version of The Artist's Way. You know, it's the next step in this. And, right now I'm actually listening to Questlove, from the Roots. His book on creativity that I'm really excited about. But, part of what is happening, I think in, in the world, is this need to sanctify ourselves, is, you know, that's partly what Elizabeth says in Big Magic. She gives a lot of really, actually very practical good information about actually owning yourself as a creative person. And so, you did that. you said on some level — there is —I want to do this, there is value for it, I'm not going to let everybody else have ideas about why I shouldn't do this and I'm going to do it and I'm going to keep showing up. And that's a huge issue, I think, for a lot of people, and I think women, in the Western world, have had, not that men don't have their struggles, and I don't want to totally do a gender separation thing, ANDREW: Mmmhmm. LUCIA: But there are some messages that women have gotten about being very accommodating and taking care of everyone else. ANDREW: Sure.  LUCIA: So, what I found, working with women, and being, having the people pleaser in myself, is that there's this road to believing that your visions are worth pursuing. And then having the courage to keep showing up and showing up and showing up because it's a bit of magic and alchemy and then it's a bit of down and dirty doing it, doing it, doing it, doing it. And so, that's what you did! So that's so beautiful and so essential. So essential.  ANDREW: Well, and you know, and as somebody who is raising two female-identified kids, right? LUCIA: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: I see a lot of these things. I'm always looking at what are the messages they're getting, what are they being told, what's being reinforced, where can I give them a bit more punk rock to say fuck that shit, you know? Cause, like — LUCIA: Go, dad, go! ANDREW: You know, it's great! So, you know, my kids — we give them more freedom than many people are comfortable with, right? In our neighborhood and stuff like that. You know, we let them go to the playground by themselves and so on. You know, and I think that it's important, and I think that, from my perspective, and from a [garbled 42:40] perspective, it's not that dangerous, you know? It's not, you know, it's not a problem now. But it freaks parents out, right? LUCIA: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: It freaks adults out a lot to see, you know, kids out by themselves anywhere. You know? And if you're not, like, 15, they're like eyeballing you and be like, where's the parent, right? LUCIA: Right.  ANDREW: And so, last summer, my youngest was over going to the playground with her sister, and some adult was like, "Are you by yourself? Where are your parents?" And she gave the best answer, which is, "That's none of your business." And kept going! LUCIA: [bursts out laughing] ANDREW: And I'm like, yes, exactly! Right? Because, because we don't have to, we shouldn't, capitulate, you know, I mean, I might have been more graceful or polite or something about that, but you know, it's perfect! And it's clear and it's a firm answer and, you know, people want it both ways, right? They want, like, don't talk to strangers because it's dangerous, but let us intercede and you know, treat us with respect and talk to us, right? It doesn't work that way! You know? And that's not — that's not real, right? So. LUCIA: You are raising riot grrls, and I love you! ANDREW: [laughs] LUCIA: Thank you! Well, and, you know, part of it also is, I feel that, with this, because, you know, being 50, I was a kid in the 70s, and there was, depending on where you lived, there was a lot more freedom in the 70s, we didn't have media that was so sensationalized, and every parent didn't think constantly, "My child is going to be abducted." The amount of children that are abducted by strangers is like being hit by lightning. If children go somewhere, it's usually a disgruntled parent or a family member or something. And I'm not saying that that's okay. But ... But what, and in the 70s, we messed around in the ravine, in the gully, that was down the way, without adults around, you know? I studied the early childhood education and I was a nanny for years. And so, this is a — ANDREW: We — I lived at the edge of town— LUCIA: Yeah?  ANDREW: Where I grew up? And we would hike, I think it's five kilometers, five miles, something like that, to the summer camp, when it was closed, that was in the woods, a good hike there, and play on their playground and climb on the buildings and whatever, when I was like in public school. You know, like, I don't know, maybe 10 years old, probably less, you know? LUCIA: Yes!  ANDREW: Nobody knew where we were! LUCIA: No! ANDREW: You know we were so far in the woods, right? There was nobody around, and there was nobody there! You know? And nothing ever happened. And again, not to say that stuff didn't happen elsewhere that I wasn't a part of, but like, you know. LUCIA: But you — you know — I mean, really, you know, generally, the ... Like, a kid will break their arm or something. I mean, it was like — but that's not— That's not —What I learned in studying early childhood education is, what I feel is, we are creating weak people. We are creating people who don't understand their instincts, who don't have stamina, and when you leave, children are not supposed to be with adults 24/7. Adults don't want to be with children 24/7. No disrespect to children. ANDREW: True fact! [laughs] LUCIA: Nobody that, you know — that's — but, so, when kids are alone, there is a tremendous amount of social interaction and power and confidence and jockeying that they learn, that when adults are hovering around, they don't have, and there's things about their edges and their boundaries. It's one big long rite of passage that they need, and I'm actually fairly concerned about what this means that kids are sitting in front of a device shut up in a house, for their health, for their spiritual and energetic stamina.  And so, but what I love about your riot grrls, your beautiful riot grrls, is that they're— You're teaching them also to trust their instincts. We don't trust — particularly girls — to trust their instincts. And so, going to the park alone, your girls are going to be alert. You know, your girls are not going to be — they'll understand that this is a privilege that they have, and they're going to learn and hone their stamina to read the vibes. And that's what you have to do in life. And if, if something doesn't feel right, well, you run home! Your girls would run home! Right? ANDREW: Mmmhmm. No, for sure! LUCIA: Yeah that's — ANDREW: I mean, I think it's interesting. I don't worry about the digital age and the impact of tablets and things or whatever on people. I'm curious about what they're going to do with it. Because I think that sooner or later, right? LUCIA: Yeah.  ANDREW: All these impulses that you and I are talking about, that we've explored and brought out and whatever, those are just human impulses, right?  LUCIA: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And, growing up in a more digital age or, you know, where stuff's happening in other ways, sooner or later, those impulses are going to gain enough momentum or have enough urgency that they're going to emerge from those people too, right? LUCIA: Right.  ANDREW: And then they're going to show us something we've never seen before. LUCIA: Yes!  ANDREW: I'm very fascinated about that. I have this— This oracle that I made for myself, and a lot of it's just sort of little things that I feel like I need to be reminded of. And one of the sayings on one of the cards is, "The youth know the way."  LUCIA: Oh!  ANDREW: And I'm like, all right! When it comes up, I always — it makes me think about, what are they know? You know, and like, not in a like, old man shaking their fist, what do they know? Although I have old man moments too, right? LUCIA: [bursts out laughing] ANDREW: But like, what do they know? What are they doing? What's going on? What is the meaning that they're perceiving in this? What is the value to them, right?  LUCIA: Right! ANDREW: And, you know, when we can run into those things with curiosity, you know, I think it's fascinating, and for me, then I get to sort of experience something new. And I get to think about things in a different way, and to me that's wonderful, it's not easy to always sustain that kind of approach and it's not always easy to access what's going on with those people. Because, you know, 16-year-olds don't, really don't want to talk to me necessarily? You know, certainly not random ones on the street, right? LUCIA: [laughing] ANDREW: But I'm curious, you know? And it's one of the great things — like I'm a scout leader for my kids' cub troop, right? And to spend time with those youth, and, you know, they're 8 to 11-year-olds. And then at bigger things, you know, there are teenagers and other ages there as well. For me I get to see what they're about and what they're doing and what they're interested in. And when I'm at my best, I get to be like, "Wow, what are you getting from that? What's inspiring about that?" You know? LUCIA: Yeah. ANDREW: "What need is that fulfilling in you? And how come I don't understand it at all?" You know? And it certainly, it can be fascinating. So. LUCIA: Well and I feel like, with some of the younger people, and some of the millennials that I've connected with, they came in with a different operating system than we did. That their whole structure of how they're wired is very different than what we got and what we inherited, what the cultural expectations, the boxes, the prejudices, that they — what I've seen— You know, they get bashed for being self-absorbed and all of that. But what I've also seen is that they have this visionary— These visionary aspects to them that are epic, that blow me away! The visionary in me goes, "Wow! I'm a model T car and you're a rocket ship!" And so I do, I wonder what, like you say, I don't even know, I feel like I came in to help anchor some of those folks and then the folks more of my age who are those in between, we're pretty visionary, particularly for our time frame, but we got nothing on what those younger people have, and you're right, they're going to do things, make the science fiction moods that we found of having a TV in our hands, they're gonna make that look like that's kindergarten.  ANDREW: Yeah.  LUCIA: And so, I'm pretty thrilled about it too.  ANDREW: Well and I think that that's a great mantra or you know, something to sort of both embody and keep the ego in check, right? I'm visionary for my generation, I'm visionary for my time, I'm visionary for my upbringing, you know? Because like, we look back and especially because like I've read a lot of stuff by, you know, cause I was into ceremonial magic and into sort of Crowley stream of stuff, you know, the guy was visionary for his time, in certain ways, in certain aspects. LUCIA: Yeah!  ANDREW: You know? And he was totally horrendous in many ways. LUCIA: [laughing] ANDREW: Because of his time, and because of his upbringing. And because of his personality, you know? LUCIA: Right.  ANDREW: And, you know, I hope that I never have as many downfalls is that dude had. But, to think that we don't have them, right, is just folly, right? You know? LUCIA: It is folly; it's all folly! I mean that— That— I mean that's really— It is— We, as humans, I think we get all caught up, and we get ... We get into all these spins. The reality is we're a bunch of goofballs. I mean, that's the reality of it, and were just stumbling around like toddlers, all of us, and anytime you think you really know, you're totally sure, good luck with that! How's that working for you? I mean, you know, that's— You gotta — You know, that's the thing, of being a recovering perfectionist, I can laugh at myself now. Before I judged myself. Judged myself terribly. Now I go, "Oh yeah, you're insecure there, oh you're, you know, being kind of neurotic or whatever it is. And then I like kind of laugh, and pat myself, like, "Oh, baby, you're so clay footed! Isn't that fun?" ANDREW: Uh huh. LUCIA: It's a miracle. So, I think— That's what I would hope for all of my brethren listening to this: Can you come to this place where you love and accept yourself enough, even laugh at yourself! ANDREW: Mmmhmm. So, this kind of brings it to one of the other things that I wanted to chat about with you though, right? It's been a real journey for you, right? LUCIA: Mmmhmm.  ANDREW: Like, you were saying 12 years ago was when you made the Oracle of Initiation, right? Or something like that? LUCIA: Yeah.  ANDREW: And now here you are living that in an embodied way, much more, you know, and with other people in a much more embodied way, right? LUCIA: Yeah. ANDREW: How did that journey happen? How did that go for you? LUCIA: [sighs] It's ... Never in a million years, could I have told you that I would have this life that I have now. And I think that's true for everybody— ANDREW: Yeah! LUCIA: But I went down some really alternative paths. You know, I took some paths that were not taken, some serious, right turns, left turns, off of where I was coming from. And it helped me have the life that I always dreamed of that I didn't even realize was possible, like, to tell — I've gone from a model T car, from a Big Wheels, you know, a Big Wheels toy, to a rocket ship, in the growth game that I've had.  And, part of it was not by choice. My own issues of safety and security and control—I wouldn't have left the life that I had at that point in Seattle. I grew up in Seattle in a family professional artists. And was always very creative and independent in my own way, but I also really wanted kids. I wanted kids more than anything. I loved kids. And I actually still love kids. I just don't want to give them the time that they deserve. I have another dialogue that I want. My creativity is my dialogue. And so, kids are not going to get that dialogue from me, you know. Other people think you can take some for the team and raise the kids. But ... My ... You know the journey of wanting to be married and have this Martha Stewart sort of a lifestyle— I come from a family of designers, and architects, and artists. And I love homemaking. I have a homemaker in me. I love food, I love beautiful design.  But that— I didn't realize how mystical I was. I didn't. I had forgotten. I had blocked a lot of it off. Of how intuitive I was, how psychic I was. And so, the universe and myself conspired to send me in this totally different trajectory than where I had been. And my husband died of cancer when he was 37. I was 33. And he was wonderful. And I'm not just putting him on a pedestal because he's dead. He was a gift from the angels. He was so much healthier than me. He was a very healthy, loving, integrated man. To be honest, I've only — I've met a small amount of men who have had the access to heart and love that he had. He was extraordinary. And, he died.  And I didn't have kids, and I had some resources, I didn't have to go get a 9-to-5 job, and I spent basically seven years on a quest to revitalize who I was, defined who I was, and I always knew that art was central to who I was. Like I, I breath, I, every cell in my body is art, I am living art. Adventure. I love exploring! That's the happiest ... I'm the happiest in my whole life when I'm exploring. And then, spirituality in the land. You know there was my spirituality, my mystical spirituality was evolving. But so, in that seven years on that quest, I did about 15 lifetimes worth of study, and engagement, and incredible teachers, and learning, and then I made the oracle deck. You know, I made this deck. And so, we're going to— After this, let's talk about the dreams. You know, the last interview that you and I did. I had had some dreams about you and your Orisha deck. ANDREW:  Yeah. LUCIA: But my oracle deck predominantly came out of dreams. I was having dreams, other people were having dreams, these amazing dreams of animals and humans shapeshifting. Of people getting up off of one divination card and moving to another, like being alive, and I followed the stepping stones. I followed the path, I courageously— And you know, here's another thing about courage and following your path— I will bet you, I would bet you money, I would bet you something, that if you paid a survey of people enough money to live two years, three years, five years, and follow their passion and go for theirs, there would still only be a small percentage. There's something that you have to click in to go for it. And people ... a lot of people say it's the money. And I have the mortgage and ... and kids do make it different. I'm humbly ... I don't have kids, I'm humbly saying that you make different choices when you're responsible for children, I'm very humble about that. And still, you still can make other choices and I, something in me had the ability to tap into this courage and this fierceness and this not knowing and follow these impulses and that's how I ended up in New Mexico with the structure— It took me six years to do the deck —But the structure of the deck was all in place. But the artwork of these dreams of the animals and humans shapeshifting and the light beings moving around. It wasn't happening in 2D art processes. I got a new camera. This was before my iPhone adventures. Now I'm obsessed with what iPhones can do. ANDREW: It's amazing. LUCIA: It's amazing. But, I had this epiphany, my work comes through epiphanies and I was driving along, and I had done this — I had been trained in this body of work called the Earth and Body series. They were sacred selfies. This was from 2005 to 7 that I took around the world. And I learned how to get out of the way and be drawn to locations. I would disrobe so that I would be vulnerable and connected to the earth, like becoming primal, back to the earth. I'd hold the camera in my hand, you know, it became an extension of my body, and I would take these mystical opening between the veils pictures. And so, when I got to New Mexico, found some new graffiti and tunnels, that was vibrating in a different way ... You know, like my mystical capacity had opened more, my conduit was more open, and then this epiphany came, of taking those nude Earth and Body photos, and there were 20 to 25,000 of those, and taking it to the next level and tribally painting myself and adorning myself. Which I had done, I had done sacred selfies since I was a kid with Polaroids, with photo booths. It's just one of my jams. It's one of my things. And so, I started doing ... in June 2006, I went down into this graffiti tunnel that I found, had gotten paint at the theater store, had all of these horns and scarves and amber necklaces and things. And I took these pictures with a new camera that you ... that would ... it was more sophisticated, and you could get pictures in lower light. As part of how my images happened is about ISO and about sparkly things and some ambient light in tunnels. And the graffiti. And, I took these photos and they blew me away. And so, this was this whole journey, this whole trust walk, and when I started it, I didn't know I could do such an epic project, and ... ANDREW: I think it's such an important thing to note, too, right?  LUCIA: Yeah.  ANDREW: I think that if people knew what it would be at the end ... LUCIA: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: They would probably never start. Right?  LUCIA: They wouldn't, cause it's too hard.  ANDREW: It's too hard. It's too far from where they are. The innovations and inspiration that the journey or the road provides aren't there in the beginning ... LUCIA: Yeah.  ANDREW: So, it's one of those things, right? You ... Starting the process and allowing and trusting that the process will come forward to something is the big ... is one of the biggest things, right? You know? And it's tough when you don't have history with it to trust it, right? It gets easier with time, but ... LUCIA: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: Yeah. LUCIA: Completely true. And that's it, I mean it's tough to trust it when you -- I'm writing this down -- when you don't have history, and that was the thing that gave me history. That was the thing that has changed my life, where I saw, because I'm, as I say, I was very insecure for many years, and I am a good synthesizer, I have a brain that is able to synthesize things well. I'm ... You know, we also have this culture where people are not supposed to be proud of what they have, particularly women, like you're supposed to be humble, people will think you're arrogant. No, fucking own what you're good at. So, I'm smart. I can synthesize and make connections. You know, that's the visionary plus the structure person. And I didn't realize how skilled I was at that because I was insecure. So, in, you know, in my oracle book, it's 300 pages and I'm so proud of it. It's my woo woo Ph.D. I got my Ph.D. You know, we don't get -- I should have a Ph.D. in the woo world behind my name from that deck.  ANDREW: I felt the same way when I made ... I did this ten week, two-and-a-half-hour class, course on the Thoth tarot, right?  LUCIA: Whoa.... ANDREW: I was like, when I finished that, I was like, that's my Ph.D.  That's it right there.  LUCIA: There it is! Right? The decades and decades that we've been studying with this. And so, that ... doing that project ... and as I say, it took me six years to physically make it and then publish the book, and then, we're 12 years in now, and there's always a learning curve with print on demand and self-publishing and all of that. But it ... it was the game changer. And as I say, not everybody's going to do that. But you've got to find something that is like that, that is your game changer if you really want to anchor in your visionary self. You're going to have to over and over again show up and do things that are out of your comfort zone, and you're going to need to love it on some level, or you won't keep doing it.  ANDREW: Yeah.  LUCIA: And so now, I'm at this point finally, I'd say probably 20, 25 years' worth of what I've visioned, what I've prayed for, you know, it's a combination of working for it, and then there's some grace. Like you don't earn it. Like somehow it just anchors in. It's both/and. And now it's just anchored in and now I finally ... like I feel myself in my body ... Cause empaths also have a hard time being in their body cause this world is really loud. But I'm finally in my body in a way, and I've come out of the cave, you know, I'm not in the mystic's cave anymore, that 20 years is over, and when I'd show up and teach at conferences and workshops and public speak, I kind of stand there in myself and go [gasps]: "Wow! This is so cool! Like, I'm in my skin. I'm happy with myself." And if I, you know, make a mistake, or I do something, or I say something, you know, I'll stick my foot in my mouth sometimes, I don't shame myself for months any more. I'm like, well that was kind of awkward. And we move on! ANDREW: Yeah.  LUCIA: It's so ... So, literally, I got the keys to the kingdom through following this path and now also I'm starting ... I didn't make a lot of money for a long time. You know, I had other money that I was living on. You know, this is also something that people don't talk about. If you don't have the confidence to feel that you're going to be able to magnetize other people, don't quit your day job. You will not have a thriving career as a woo woo person if you haven't sanctified yourself. And I work with people around this.  ANDREW: And it is, it is not easy. Right?  LUCIA: It is not fucking easy!  ANDREW: When I started ... you know, cause for a long time, I wasn't in the bigger tarot community or in the bigger spiritual community. I was just, you know, working at a shop in Toronto and just doing my thing, and when I started going around and meeting people, I was amazed at how few people were making their living ... LUCIA: Yes! ANDREW: Doing stuff ... LUCIA: Yes! ANDREW: And I was making my living doing it, and how many people were being supported by their partner ... LUCIA: Yep! ANDREW: Or had a day job or all these things, and no shame on that ... LUCIA: Yeah! No! ANDREW: You do what you gotta do ... LUCIA: Exactly. ANDREW: But the perspective that I had seen and that many people kind of cultivated was that they were ... that they were making it, but they weren't making a living, they were, you know, they weren't making enough money to support themselves. LUCIA: Solely on that work.  ANDREW: Solely on that work. And I think that that is a thing that very few people talk about, and a lot of people sell the dream and a lot of like, woo woo, blah blah marketing types and coaches or whatever sell people on that, and it's not that it's not possible,

This week I'm joined by the one and only Ty Shaw. We dive deep into our connections with the Orishas and Ty talks us through some of her sexual empowerment work and how they all connect. Her work covers old traditions and new traditions, and her dedication to her practise is inspiring. This is one not to be missed! Connect with Ty through her website.  If you are interested in supporting this podcast though our Patreon you can do so here. If you want more of this in your life you can subscribe by RSS , iTunes, Stitcher, or email. Thanks for listening! If you dig this please subscribe and share with those who would like it. Andrew   transcription  ANDREW: Welcome to another installment of The Hermit's Lamp podcast. I am hanging out today with Ty Shaw, who is a fascinating human being. She practices a bunch of different traditions, and brings a lot of, you know, experience in a lot of different ways through life and spirituality to the conversation today. So, for folks who don't know who you are, Ty, why don't you introduce yourself? What -- Who are you and what are you about? TY: Oh, my god. Ooh child. Well, I am Ty Shaw, like you just said, and what am I about? I'm a Iyalorisa, palera Mambo, and a lot of other things, oh iyanifa, that's the most recent one! Always forget to list that one! ANDREW: Right. TY: And basically, what I have been doing is working with people within the tradition. I was obviously with my spiritual house, and the various, you know, people that I service in my communities, but my sort of day job now is in the space of sacred sexuality coaching, intimacy coaching, and really bringing, particularly, well, people in general, but women in particular, in alignment with sort of their spirituality and their sexuality, and kind of bridging that gap, and working in a space where people understand that when you talk about sacred sexuality that you don't have to look to India or to China or to Japan or to these other places, that we do have concepts of sacred sexuality from an African context ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. TY: If you're willing to actually look at what we're doing and examine what we're doing. ANDREW: All right. Well, why don't you enlighten us on that? Because I know, you know, being a babalocha, right, you know? That sex, at least sex in general is very, we keep that inside of the Orisha tradition, you know, not inside of the tradition, but outside of the relationships and the connections there, you know, and people are often like, very slow to even get into conversations like that, because there is such an emphasis on having proper relationships and where those lines are ... TY: Right. ANDREW: So, where does that come from in what your experiences are for you? TY: Well, that's exactly why I do this work. Because our traditions are very conservative in how they look at sex ... ANDREW: Yeah. TY: Which to me, is not only counterproductive but contradictory, because everything we do mimics a sexual act on some level. If we want to take, say the babalawo for example, when the oluwo is pounding ikin, the oluwo is mimicking copulation, such that ikin, or odu, can give birth. When we go into the igbodú and we want to birth a new priest in the process of a kariocha, we are using the leads, singing the songs, doing the invocations ... ANDREW: Sure. TY: To get certain elements to give birth. You know, if we're sitting on the mat and we're divining with the odun and odí falls, or some iteration of oché, or something out of ogunda falls, we're going to be talking some sexual shit. [laughs] You know what I'm saying? ANDREW: I do! TY: Can you talk -- we deal with deities who cover these specific things. And, we deal with energy. We're priests. We understand that, just from a basic scientific perspective, that energy is neither created nor destroyed. It's how it's directed. So that means there is no difference between spiritual energy and sexual energy. And the fact that we vibrate on a different level as priests because we actively cultivate our energy -- we're cultivating our sexuality as well. And I think the fact that our traditions are so conservative, and don't allow for these deeper conversations, even though the liturgy, odu, the deities themselves, do speak of these things and act in these ways, because we haven't had these conversations and developed that language, we have what we see now, which is the manifestation of a plethora of, or an abundance rather, of sexual dysfunction, in an out of ritual in an out of the room, and a community of priests who are manipulating energies, but really have no basic concept of what energy is, how it works, and what you're conjuring. [laughs] So that's why I decided to get in that space. ANDREW: Yeah! So, when you're ... because lots of people who listen to this are not going to be practitioners of ATRs, or, you know, diasporic traditions or those things necessarily, let's pull this apart just a little bit more. Because I know exactly what I think you mean -- I mean, you're going to tell me if I'm right -- but -- I think one of the things that we want to make clear, is that some of the dysfunction that I think that you're talking about, I mean there's obviously the people who are having challenges themselves, which is a separate issue, but then there's the sort of dysfunction of people taking advantage of relationships, godparents, or other people who should be obeying a taboo that is like a parent to a child ... TY: Right. ANDREW: You know, or having relationships and using their power and position to take advantage of people. Right? We're talking about these kinds of things, right? TY: Right. Right. ANDREW: Yeah. TY: Well, one thing about that, we're talking about even in our intermittent relationships, we are seeing a lot of abuse coming to the surface, because of Facebook, sexual abuse, women who are being raped by their babalawo husbands, or men that I've encountered in this tradition who come seeking guidance and were molested by a godparent. You know? We have an abundance of people of color, amongst those people of color are women of color, and I personally in my adult life don't know any women of color who haven't experienced sexual abuse or sexual assault. So, we have this abundance of sort of sexual trauma, that comes up in our relationships in so many different ways, whether it's the baggage we bring to the tradition, or whether it's the abuse of power because of the dynamic within the tradition. But we still because of our conservativism, we don't have that conversation. ANDREW: Right. TY: And when we do, it's an accusatory one: You abused me. You did this. You didn't do booze up the bembé. You tried to take my husband. You know. But we don't necessarily have conversations around what the solutions are. What we're going to do about it. How do you fix them? If you're a babalawo that's married, and you have your apetdabe, how are you cultivating that sacred relationship? ANDREW: Mmmhmm. TY: Because that's our version of it! [laughs] You know what I'm saying? In a certain way. On a certain level. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. TY: How are we cultivating our intimate relationships? How does that affect our vibration and our energy and how we cultivate our Ase as priests, and then what does that look like in terms of how do we treat each other in our interpersonal relationships? ANDREW: Sure. And how are we dealing with our own ... I mean, even if we don't have the kinds of traumas you're talking about, you know, we all exist in a culture that, you know, experiences toxic masculinity, and rape culture, and all of these bits and pieces and all sorts of exploitative pieces left over from a long time, in our culture, right? TY: Yes. ANDREW: And how do we look at ourselves and become clear about what is our desire? What is real? How do we communicate? Where does consent fit? TY: Right. ANDREW: You know, all of these things, right? Like these are important pieces ... TY: Yeah. ANDREW: Of cultivating ... Well, I mean, being a decent human being, for one, but like, and certainly being a spiritual human being for another, right? You can't. TY: Yeah. And we can't deal with these forces that again, we're engaging in sort of spiritual sexual acts in the process of giving birth and getting odu to conceive and put something out there that's new, and then appeasing this newborn thing via ebbó. We do these things, but there's a disconnect, there's some sort of cognitive dissonance, you know, between the act and the metaphysical understanding of the act, you know? Mmmhmm. ANDREW: I also think that people don't understand energy, as you kind of said earlier. Right? TY: Yeah, exactly, exactly. ANDREW: You know, one of the things that I noticed when I became a priest was, all sorts of people who started hitting on me who weren't hitting on me before. TY: Yeah, because you were orisha. ANDREW: Right? And I got Shango on my head, right? I mean, that's going to draw some heat, right? And, you know, and the thing is, is that, if I wasn't mindful of it, if some of my elders hadn't said, hey, this is probably going to happen, take it easy about that, then you'd get into all sorts of trouble, right? Because what's going on is those people aren't necessarily attracted to me ... TY: It's that energy! ANDREW: They're feeling that energy, and they want more of that, but we don't understand how to get close to spirit, or how to be intimate with human beings, and not frame that in a sexual context. Right? TY: Or, if it's in a sexual context, that doesn't mean we have to act in a debased way. How about receiving the energy because we are, like Shango is the pillar of virility, male virility, male marknotism, that's his Ase, and it is sexual, there's no way around that. How about we accept that that's what it is, internalize it, and use it for what it does? As opposed to saying, well, I feel arousal, this means I must screw, this means I must ... you know. As opposed to no, these are what vibrations and energy do, and you know that's why I started getting into vibrational medicine, you know, prana, reiki, tantric projection work, because we already have heightened vibrations as a result of having gone through ritual. And ideally, we're cultivating our Ase, cultivating ori, we're developing and uplifting that vibration. But so many priests I would have a conversation with about energy, vibration, how we magnetize it and move, there was just such a lack of understanding, and a lot of times I feel that we're doing ebbó, we're killing chickens, but what you need is a chakra cleanery, what you need is a past life regression, what you need is some spiritual counseling, it's an issue on a base level with your vibration. Which ebbó does address, through the power of sacrifice, but you're still not internalizing that in your vibration. ANDREW: Well, it's like I popped my collar bone out of place, recently, right? And, you know, I went to my osteopath and put it back in place, but the reason I popped it out of place, was cause muscles in my back were out of balance, and that is a physiotherapy thing, and so now I need to be ... you know, and so, and I think that that's true on many levels, right? Spiritual practices can make adjustments ... TY: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And, in different kinds of spiritual practices, can be that physiotherapy ... TY: Right. ANDREW: But it's rare that one does all of them at the same time, right? You know? It's like you go for a reading with the Orishas, and they're going to, you know, realign your vertebrae, and be like this is where you should be and then you're going to leave, and all those wonky muscles and your habits are going to want to pull you back out of place, right? And whether that's energetic, or your circumstance, or your psychology, or whatever, right? Or the various baggage you're carrying with you? That's all that energy that wants to kind of disalign you again, right? TY: Right. And I think that's one of the major critiques I've had, like if anybody has seen my Facebook videos, I've done a lot of critiquing about what I think is healthy versus what I don't think is healthy, right? ANDREW: Mmmhmm. TY: And in that sort of process, not understanding energy has led this new generation of people that are kind of coming into the tradition with a level of ... how would I say, like a lack of respect for tradition? And in that process, they stereotype and pigeonhole certain energies because there's a fundamental misunderstanding of energy. So, like for example, I see this wave of new women coming into sacred sexuality, and not everyone's a child of Ochún. Because they think, okay, Ochún, sacred whore, sacred prostitute, no idea where that comes from, but this is what they say, and this is what they think, right? When it's like, Ochún, first of all, it's a stereotyping of this energy, because you don't even understand what you're talking about, it's a pigeonholing and it's a limiting of her, because depending on the road, you might be dealing with the crone, you might be dealing with the witch, you might be dealing with the demure healer, you might be dealing with something like Ochún Ibu Kwanda, the warrior. Who ain't got nothing to do with your coquette. [laughs] ANDREW: Yeah, for sure, right? TY: When people don't understand energy, when we don't understand how things work, and we stereotype, and we pigeonhole, we do everybody a disservice ... ANDREW: Yeah. TY: We don't, we don't get access to the thing, you know, that's really going to ... ANDREW: Yeah, I think that, I think it's challenging, because there's such a profound and sort of largely ... If you're outside of the tradition, largely inaccessible depth and diversity that's there, right? TY: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: You know, how many roads of Ochún are there? How many roads of ... you know? You know, this, that, and all those other spirits, right? TY: Right. ANDREW: And what do those things mean, right? TY: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And what do ... and what if you're dealing with, I mean, you know, if you're dealing with those, or running into those, or if those are the paths or avatars that are sort of engaging with you, it's completely different to have one versus the other, right? TY: Yeah, right. ANDREW: There's the Yemaya who pulls you down to the bottom of the ocean, right? TY: Yep. ANDREW: And leaves you there! TY: And leave y'all! ANDREW: Right. And then there's those other paths that are going to love you and hold you while you cry and pat your back, right? TY: Oh, there's this my path, Achaba, who's just the shady one, who don't want to ... ANDREW: Yeah. Right? TY: You know. There's koha ibun shade .... ANDREW: [laughs] TY: But I love her, I love her. But that's why, like in my work ... Okay, I had become a palera , I became a iyalosha, I became a mom, though I became a iyanifa, and then I was like, well, why do I want to do any of this? What does this mean to me? What does priesting look like for me? ANDREW: Sure. TY: Do I ... Am I going to be able to do it in the way maybe my elders did it? Do I believe in the same things? What is this priesthood thing going to actually play out for me? And I found that in ... And I'm a young santera, you know what I'm saying, so, I mean, I'm 5 in Ocha this year -- no, I'm six. Am I six already? Shit! But anyway. ANDREW: It's really stacking up, right? [laughter] TY: You know, so I'm a baby olosha. Infant. And, in the process of me coming into adulthood as a nealOrisha, growing up and kind of going through adolescence, now, I have to ... I decided to consciously ... consciously move into priesthood. What is this priesthood thing going to look like for me? Where is going to be my medicine? What's going to be my point of departure? And that has always been whole person healing. What am I dealing with? What is Yamaya bringing to my doorstep? And yes, I can solve this with ebbó, but after ebbó, what is going to -- and that creates transformation -- but what's going to last? What's going to stick? What's going to change behavior? You know? And that's when I decided to go ... that my route was really as a healer ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. TY: Getting into the spiritual development of the person, and then when I was trying to figure out well what healing would look like, outside of energy healing and spiritual cleanings and stuff, what I found is, that what people were lacking was the counsel and a way to really work through trauma, particularly trauma held within the body, of a sexual nature. And our tradition was no exception to that. So, it spoke to me of just the niche, that made sense, that I could kind of slide on into, you know? ANDREW: Mmmhmm. TY: So right now, it sounds like priesting for me is looking like being really woman/Goddess-centered, really witchy, and really focused on long-lasting transformation. ANDREW: Mmm. TY: In or outside of an igbodú or a new set of elekes, or the reception of a new Orisha. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. TY: [laughs] You know what I'm saying? ANDREW: For sure, because so many, you know, I'm also a relatively young olocha, you know, but lots of people who come around for that part of what I do, they, so many of them almost show up with their shopping list, right? They're like, I'm coming to you, I want you to give me my elekes, please confirm that I'm a child of whomever, you know? And like, and so on, and it's like ... I don't know. Like, you know, let's see what happens, right? Whereas, when people come to me in my sort of card reading and you know, that other magical side of my life ... A lot of those things are more like what I think that all of it should be, which is, let's see what's going on, let's talk about what you need, let's work on this, and make that change so that it endures, right? TY: Right. ANDREW: Because it's so easy to, you know, when I made Ocha, Shango basically said to me, it was like, "Hey, welcome, you're here, so go fix your life, cause you've got some things that are messy that you made, and now you gotta go fix em cause Ocha can't do it," and I was like, "All right. Huh. That's not what I was hoping!" [laughs] TY: Right? ANDREW: You know? TY: Shango has a way of just popping that bubble. He kind of gave me something similar, in my Ita, Shango, he came down talking bout "You do not know how to live, and now you need to learn how to live. Learn how to live in this life, or you'll learn how to live in the other," we hear that refrain. You know? ANDREW: Yeah. TY: And I think I had a similar trajectory, like, I love teaching, you know, cards, crystals, all the airy fairy witchy stuff, because even though I had extensively studied African tradition, I studied traditional forms of witchcraft as well. I was a proper neoPlatonist high ceremonial magic type of witch [laughs] for a ... ANDREW: Yeah. TY: [[00:19:10] astrological magic, like, I came from Bea too, so ain't nobody going to get me to leave my cards behind, and none of that, but ... And I felt like there was space for that. Like there were, you know ... And spiritualism gives you that opportunity, right? To bring in anything you want? But, people would come with their shopping list, well I want this, I want to be crowned tomorrow, I need you to take me to Haiti, and then after that take me to Africa, and I want this and I want that, and usually my attitude is like, that's cute, that's what you want, you know, good for you, you are clear on your desires ... ANDREW: Yeah. TY: Which is ... [laughs] What do you actually need? Now that we've gotten through your laundry list, what's actually getting ready to happen here? ANDREW: Yeah. TY: Cause guess what, I don't move, unless Yamaya tells me this is what has to happen. ANDREW: Oh yeah. For sure. TY: [laughing] ANDREW: That piece of ... I don't know what the right word for it is ... understanding ... that the Orishas that sits on our heads, you know, and live with us, that nothing happens without their say so. Something so largely foreign to most people's concepts, right? You know? TY: Yeah. ANDREW: Like I remember, many years ago, I got this reading, and Aleyo was like, "No tattoos for you this year," and I was like, "huh, all right, fair enough, I'll stop," right? I had a bunch of stuff planned and I stopped. And a lot of people couldn't understand how I could be just like, "okay"? Like what if he never says yes again? And I was like, "Well, that's cool, I'll roll with that." But that's so hard for people to roll with, right? You know and because ... I think in part because we're encouraged to be ego-centered in a way that is hard to wrestle with ... TY: Yes. ANDREW: But also because of all these traumas that we've been talking about, right? TY: Yes. ANDREW: How much harder is it for someone to put that kind of trust in somebody, if they have, you know, whatever kinds of traumatic experiences and abuses from people who should be ... who were supposed to be there facilitating them? Parents, priests, guides, whoever, right? TY: You know, I agree with that, because it's about several things. It's about shifting from a very Western individualist self-absorbed ego-centric way of being and moving through the world, which I'm not even judging, because those are actual tools we need to survive in the West. ANDREW: Sure. TY: [laughs] Okay? A certain amount of selfishness is necessary for your survival in this place. However, it does create a learning gap. Because you kind of have to cross that bridge to understand how everything functions in this particular tradition. And the unique thing about this tradition is that it's not just all this ... I think we also get really idealistic and we think that we have all these proper African values, and we don't. We have diaspora values, because if you rob them [22:09?] of cultural nuances they don't recognize in Africa. They're not doing that. And we have to separate the caricature of Africa that we have, this ideal ... this, you know, ideal, you know, Africa that doesn't exist. What we're dealing with is post-colonial Africa, that has just as much white supremacist misanthropic bullshit as any one of us. ANDREW: Yeah. Well and also, you know, which part of Africa are we talking about, right? You know? Are we talking about ... TY: Thank you! Thank you! ANDREW: Are we talking about, you know, Ifé, are we talking about the Congo, are we talking about wherever, like, you know, I mean ... TY: Right. Right. ANDREW: I know people come in and they're like "well, you know, I was talking to a Sengoma, and that's exactly like what you do," and I'm like, "No, not really," like, in a general way it's animist and whatever, but other than that, no, it's not the same at all, right? TY: Right. And that's a problem. they think of Africa as a monolith, as one like homogenous sort of thing. They don't understand the level of nuance. And this is why I've always battled these faulty notions and assertions of purity in this tradition and who's more pure, who has the right way, who's the closest to the root? And it's like, nobody, because what is properly African is that we've always assimilated, and brought in what works, and transformed and adapted. And if you go to Nigeria right now, what they're doing in Ejife, is not what they're doing in Oyo, is not what they're doing in Abayokuda, is not what they're doing in Oshopo. They're all doing something different! Compound to compound, region to region! Because there's always been sort of that gap to allow for spirit, to allow for adaptability, that's how we learn. ANDREW: Well, and I think that that's the power of lineage, right? You know? TY: Sure. ANDREW: Like, what you're going to do, you can't do anything ... TY: Yeah. ANDREW: But you can do anything that fits within the bounds of your lineage, right? TY: Exactly. ANDREW: And that's the real meaning of, like, oh, in my house we do this, it's like, you know, lots of people use that as a justification for what they don't know or to just do whatever they feel like, or be like, oh, I can't get that, so you know in my house now, now we give turkeys instead of chickens, cause they're easier to get, or whatever, right? And it's not ... that's not valid, right? What's valid is understanding what's going on within your lineage, and then honoring and working with that, because that is something, those are the spirits that we're calling on to work, right? You know, in one way or another. TY: I've always been a bit of a lineage snob. Particularly in this day and age where people feel that they can self-initiate and they can get their head marked via tarot, and they can get initiated online, this, because, the thing about lineage, right, when I ... I try to explain this to new people, it's like if you're a Christian it doesn't mean that you all believe the same thing, you might be a 7th Day Adventist, you might be a Baptist, there are denominations here. And I feel that we've gotten to the point in our traditions where we have denominations, okay? And within each denomination, lineage becomes important because that's going to imply style, technique, and approach. Okay? We may all believe certain things, but how it plays out, how it looks in ritual, our approach to ritual, technique, that's going to be based on lineage. I think Palo is a great example of that. When you tell me the ramen, you tell me the house, now I know what kind of Palo you do. Because that's what lineage dictates. What types of agreements do you have with the forces you have the ability to access and conjure, and what do your ceremonies look like? Because everything outside of ceremony, ritual, and the protocols associated with them, that's what we dictate and what we have a blueprint for. Everything outside of that is between you and your spirit. You got to work that out! And that's why lineage gives you the blueprint, right, for how ritual, what makes you a certain thing, what makes another thing a thing, then outside of that, that's all you, boo! ANDREW: Yeah, for sure, right? ANDREW: It's all about getting to know what your particular Orishas like and want, right, you know? I mean, cause people always want to do big ceremonies, and more often than not, you know, if I cook a little amala ila for Shango, he's gonna eat up and get whatever I want, right? You know? Like, it's easy, once you sit and listen. Once you understand and build that connection. But, you know, but that quest for purity or truth or like, the solution, you know, it's not always bigger and better things, it's learn to work what you have, right? And then apply that and then you can go from there. TY: And insofar as learning to work what you have is concerned, I think that's another challenge, because one of the main critiques I sort of have of our traditions right now is that I don't think people are practicing African tradition or African-inspired tradition. I feel like they're Christians in elekes. Because they kind of bring all their Christianity and dress it up in nice African fabric and put beads on it, but it's still Christianity. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. TY: And I find that that is especially true with how we understand and approach Orisha. Sometimes our relationship and approach to Orisha is devotional, and sometimes it's not. I'm not always on my knees begging like I'm praying to the Lord, sometimes I'm sending Orisha on a mission, and I think people have forgotten that, and I see that that disconnect comes in mostly since the African American involvement in Orisha tradition. The reason why I say that is because [00:27:56--garbled] coming up with these older Cubans, Puerto Ricans ... I have seen them be like hiding drugs in Ocha, or getting a custom Elegua out cause they want some shit to go down or they busting somebody outta jail, it wasn't this elitist thing, and it wasn't so ... the level of Christianized judgement, and this just pray to Orisha and give agomu, I don't work with Uheria, that's very different, because we have songs, we have liturgy that calls us powerful sorcerers and sorceresses, and how we work with Orisha. I think that we have to reexamine what our relationship is. Is it this Christianized devotion? Or sometimes do you work with Orisha like any other sorcerer in any other tradition? And what are these ideas that we're bringing in that are foreign and counter-productive? Because if you are just purely devotional, right? and you just throw in so that you can appease Orisha and get on your knees, do you really know what that Orisha likes and how it could work for you or how you could get up and make something pop when you need it? Do you really know that? Or do you know how to appease Jesus on Sunday and beg? And does that make you a priest? Or does that make you a slave to some spirit? And you call it Ocha? ANDREW: Mmm. Well. I had the, I think, good fortune, it's one of the best gifts that I think my parents gave me, which was to not be raised with anything. So, religion was nonexistent in my household. Which, you know, I think was tremendously liberating compared to where a lot of people come from when they come into these things, right? And I think that this question of what is, what does it mean to exist with a magical religion, right? TY: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: Is something that is quite different than what a lot of people expect or understand, right? And it's neither as simple, at least in my experience, as "Hey, dude, I was sitting on the couch playing video games all month and I need some like money for rent, hook me up," right? TY: Right. ANDREW: That doesn't necessarily work either, right? I mean, maybe? Maybe the first time, maybe sometimes. Or you know, “bust me out of jail,” or whatever ... TY: Of course, there's spontaneity. Right. ANDREW: But it's also not. TY: Yeah. ANDREW: Not that either, right? You know? And sort of this distinction between the things that we want and need to live in this world and live in this life, right? TY: Uh huh. ANDREW: I mean, they are there to facilitate those things. TY: Right. ANDREW: And -- TY: I think it -- ANDREW: Go ahead. TY: No, no, I'm sorry, go ahead. ANDREW: Well, I was going to say, and, they are there cause they can see how we can free ourselves from the problems we make for ourselves, or the problems other people bring, and sort of move beyond them, or move and minimize them as we go through life, right? Because ... TY: Yes. ANDREW: You know, life is complicated, right? TY: It's the battle of the Osobos and the Iré, right? All these forces of negativity that exist in the world on many levels ... ANDREW: Right. ANDREW: And some of those come from us, too, right? And learning to overcome those ones that are ... Not in a "we're all sinners" kind of way, like we've all got baggage, we've all got tendencies, maybe we're lazy, maybe we're too greedy, maybe we're hateful or whatever, and those things undermine our lives, and we need to ... you know, it's that balance of both, I think, right. TY: Right. ANDREW: Cause literally people come into the shop and "I need you to Santeria somebody," and I'm like, "whatever, “Dude, I don't even know what you mean, but no." Like, forget it? You know? yeah. TY: I see -- I mean, I see your point. I guess what -- not I guess -- one of the things I'm resistant to is elitism in this tradition. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. TY: Because it has become elitist on a number of levels just because of the price point, the introduction of just the academia, you know, into this? So, there's also an intellectual elitism here ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. TY: And with that elitism, there's been sort of this political attempt to Christianize in terms of its values, and what we do, we don't do that, and it's like, um, but we do! Because I remember very distinctly being called for those basement ochas that we had to do in an emergency cause somebody was going to jail, or, you know, [laughs] somebody has some illness, and it was a bunch of poor people in that ocha in a project apartment saving somebody's life. I remember when it wasn't elitist. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. TY: You know? And there wasn't any shame around doing an obra versus an ebbó. And how I'm distinguishing those terms, when I say an obra, a work, something that you don't throw for, that you go, you put it together, and you tell Orisha, versus ebbó that comes out of a divination and Orisha done told you! ANDREW: Mmmhmm. TY: I remember that, there being a distinction and watching santeros move in that way. I remember that there wasn't the stigma and the shame around, yo, maybe I do need to come up with my rent cause I'm getting put out of my house and I need to go to Elegua to open a door. ANDREW: Yeah. TY: I remember because there was no stigma around that. ANDREW: Well and, I hope I didn't come across wrong, because I think there should be no shame. Right? We are all where we're at, and we're all in places and life is complex and variable and many things happen, right? TY: Right. ANDREW: And, you know? There are those times when we need to make those things, or to, you know, kick 'em in the pants a little bit and be like, "Elegua, dude, rent's due on the first, it better be in my account before that, my friend, it needs to happen, or we're all in on the street," right? or whatever, and I think there should never be any shame in any of that or in needing healing or, you know. I mean, all of those things, I think that we're all human and we all need those things all the time and we'd be foolish to think that that's not going to be the case, right? But I also do agree that there's a tendency to try and niceify, right? You know? TY: Yep. You say it even more in Nigeria. You see it even more in the Nigerian priests, with this attempt at, you know, Christianizing Ifa because of the onslaught of just attack from Muslim- and Christian-kind in Nigeria. ANDREW: Sure. Right? And you know, and it's ... you see it in a lot of, you know, more fringe places, right, you see it in the LGBT community, right, and all those extra letters too, where, it's like, well, look, we're just like you, we're this way, we're that way, and that's true for some people, and for other people it's not, right? And I think that those kinds of diversity ... it doesn't benefit anybody either to leverage one group down so that we could sort of be up, right? You know in the way that like, historically Palo and Lucumí traditions went through that conflict, right? You know, there's the historical divide, right? TY: Well, still. ANDREW: Well still, but like, you know, there were specific historical events where, you know it was like all of a sudden, well, you know, we'll throw the Palo community under the bus for this ... TY: Yeah. ANDREW: And show how legitimate and good we are, right? TY: And they're still doing it. I was very resistant to making Ocha for a lot of years, because I was palera for a long time before I became an olosha. ANDREW: Yeah. TY: And one of the things that I've [35:39--inaudible]... that I was really resistant about, was what I call Lucumí-, or Yoruba-centric [distortion/inaudible at 00:35:51]. You know, Yorubas tend to posit themselves at the top of this whole priest -- overstep their boundaries, an Orisha priest telling you, you have abatowa crown, get rid of your nganga. How? Why is it you feel that your tradition gives you the right to tell somebody what can and can't happen in a completely separate practice? Okay? And that's your eccentric elitism. That's Lucumí-centric elitism. And we see it because Lucumí is the most expensive initiation, that people feel like once they get crowned they've arrived, honey, they got the big crown ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. TY: And it perpetuates this contention. It also perpetuates a lot of misinformation. Like Cholla is not Ochún. She will never be Ochún. Saramanda is not Ogun. Nusera is not Elegua. [laughs] You understand what I'm saying? ANDREW: Yeah. Well and I think it's part of that desire or ignorance that promotes generalization, right? You know? TY: Yes. ANDREW: I mean, it's not 100% true, but I often sort of think, if there's an odu that says you shouldn't do that, then that means there's not a general prohibition against it because it's required to come up, right? And I mean, it's a little too cut and dry maybe, but I think there are so many things where people want to sort of posit a set of rules, like obatala should never drink, you know? TY: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: These people are going to be this way, this spirit's going to be that way, once you're a priest you should never do whatever again, and it's not that way, you know? It doesn't need to be that way. TY: Right. ANDREW: And that is that sort of stereotyping and you know, sort of modeling ideas that are not universal ... TY: Yes. ANDREW: But people want to make them, either because it gives them power, or cause they don't know better, right? TY: Yes. And in some cases, it's just superstitious and unnecessary. Like, I'll give you an example. I went to an Orisha birthday, to go see someone's Orisha, and you know in the process of ocha birthdays, we're sitting, we're gossip, we're talking shit. We get into a conversation about firearms, right? Because I don't go nowhere unarmed, okay? I'm a black woman living in the USA. I'm going to be ... if you see me, you're going to see ... ANDREW: I've seen your Instagram! TY: [laughs] You know, so ... we were talking about firearms, and there was a priest that was much older than me, I feel like she was in her 20s, and she was like, well you know, none of us carry weapons, we've all blunted all of the knives in our house because many of us have ogun [garbled at 00:38:38] in our Ita, and we give that over to Ogun. And I was like Er? What the hell does that have to do with your ability to protect yourself? Number one, did ogunda come in some harsh osogbo that told you to deal with the entire house, and what does any of that have to do with my basic human right to defend myself? ANDREW: Mmmhmm. TY: And then her response was, you know, well [inaudible--some missing audio? at 00:39:07] Ogun, I'm not going to take on Ogun's job, but I'm going to tell you, I'm going to tell you, I'm going to tell you, there's nothing he could have ever told me in Ita that would have had me unarmed for the rest of my life, not as a single mother, hell no. There is nothing you could have told ME that would have made me put down my firearms. And there was nothing that I heard her say out of her Ita that made any of that make sense to me. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. TY: That sounded crazy. But I hear this level of superstitious ignorance that manifests in general taboos for entire houses, all the time. Now suddenly one person's Ita is everybody's Ita. It's crazy! ANDREW: Sure. Well and I see -- I've seen that prohibition with that piece of advice come out in a reading for somebody, and it didn't surprise me, cause that relationship in that house was on the edge of exploding into physical conflict maybe, right? TY: Right. ANDREW: And so, like there are times when that stuff can come out and should come out, but that's where you gotta look at your life and see what's going on, right? Like I -- Somebody came to me for a reading and you know, it was one of those like, hey, the Orishas love you, hugs and kisses, see you later, right? And it was like, okay, when should I get initiated? And I was like, why? TY: Cause you're not about that. Right. ANDREW: “Are you sick? Are you broke? Are you ... like, what's going on?” And they're like, “No.” I'm like, "You're good, you don't need it, don't worry about it." You know? So, I think that that, yeah, it's where you need to be understanding about yourself and your relationship, right? TY: Yes, yes, and move beyond superstition. I think that we have a very sophisticated methodology and system of divination that doesn't give us ... we don't have the burden of having to have superstition. Or even faith, to a certain extent. We do divination, we do ebbó, ebbó works. [laughs] We trust that it works because we've seen in work. You know? We have divination and confirmation. ANDREW: Sure. TY: Which is one of the reasons why I like this tradition. Cause I ain't got to be believing in no pie in the sky! You do divination, you do the ebbó! [laughs] ANDREW: As Crowley puts it, right? TY: Right, right! ANDREW: As Crowley puts it in one of his books, success is your proof, right? That's it. Certainty, not faith, right? TY: Ase, and I've never done well with faith. Which is why Palo and Vodou make me happy, you do something, something happens. ANDREW: Right. TY: [laughs] You know? So. It's all of that, all of it. ANDREW: So, I have a question for you about the intimacy counseling and the work that you're doing with people, right? So, is that a energetic thing? Is that a spiritual practice? Is that like -- Where do the intersection ... Cause I'm always curious with people who practice a bunch of different things and then have outside people come and engage that, right? TY: Yeah. ANDREW: Are you engaging people within their own practices? Are they coming to you for practices? How does that look and work for you? TY: So, usually, it depends. People who have no relation to this practice but just need sex and intimacy coaching usually look like regular old clients. They book an appointment, we have some talk therapy, and then I do a healing. That healing may be energetic, like in tantric projection work or energy work that they need to clear out some trauma. It may be a past life regression or some spiritual cord that I have to cut cause of what they're dealing with. It may be physical, because as a somatic sex educator, we also guide people through certain body practices, so for example, if I have a person who is ashamed of their body as a result of trauma, has never masturbated. I might do guided coached masturbation, or I might have a couple who want to reinvigorate their sex life and they want to learn new techniques, so I'll guide them through it. So that's where the body-based therapy might come in. Someone in the tradition, it will probably start with some type of spiritual reading and see what's happening with you spiritually and then how that plays out in your life in the form of coaching. And the sex tends to be, especially in the tradition, talk therapy only. It comes out in my spiritual counseling, so like for example, I might do a divination, and let's say I see a lot of odí falling, and I know that there might be some addiction stuff, or some sexual trauma, some abuse, some other things, that that letter would point to. Well, I'll do the ebbó, I'll get that out of the way, but then after that I'm going to book a spiritual counseling session, and let's talk about what made that manifest on that, and what really needs to happen with you energetically and spiritually and hold space for that. And sometimes that is talk therapy around their sexual trauma, because of course, that letter fell and that oftentimes points to rape or molestation or all kinds of stuff, right? ANDREW: Sure. TY: In addition to that, as a tantrica, when I lead workshops with people, mostly single women or couples, they're looking to bring the sacred into their bedroom in a certain way. In terms of my tantra training, I came through, I'm an initiated tantric, I was initiated in the Shri Vidya lineage, a Debi Kudarum, very goddess-centered, and to me, it ain't nothing but some Indian Palo honey, I don't know, cause you know, they with them goddesses, they put out them yantras, honey and you get to chant and then that thing MOVES, okay, but in addition to Shri Vidya tantra, I studied Ipsaun tantra, Shakti pat, I received several activations, and I am now studying grand trine active shamanistic tantra. So, I will teach them how to do tantric projection, like no hands, no touch, energy orgasms, healing the body and the trauma energetically, and even just tantric lovemaking, tantric interaction. And I've found that people in this tradition, even though the two don't overlap, they are very interested in it, because again, we don't have a space to have these conversations. We don't have a way of talking about how we can relate in a spiritual manner [laughs] that, you know. ANDREW: Well, we're all human beings, right? We want to ultimately, I think, one of our desires, for almost everybody, is to want to show up on every level for the sexy times, right, you know? Cause once you understand or experience other levels of awareness ... TY: Right. ANDREW: You know? You want to bring that everywhere, right? But as you say, it's not really a ... there's not really a mechanism for that. TY: Right, right. I mean but the thing is I feel that we do, we do have our concept of sacred relationship because for, in my opinion, when the awo, and his apedibi, Soday, and marry, that's our sacred relationship, when the Ialosha and the Babalosha marry. They ... that's our sacred relationship, because now you have the bringing together of these two powerful entities that can birth something. Now what's going to change it is the context, the intention, the consciousness, and what you're going to put forth in it. But the fact that it exists ... I think is ... I think if it didn't exist there would be no need for the Babala to have an Apedibi, to have that feminine counterpart to the masculine, you know? To bring about that balance and uplift his Ifa. [laughs] You know what I'm saying? So, we definitely have it, but do we understand what we have? Do we not articulate it? And then what does it mean? So, you know, doubling back to your initial question, your average person looks like talk therapy and then whatever body-based somatic therapy they may need according to their issue. The average person in this tradition, I kind of keep separate, and it stays on like a counseling, I have to counsel them one on one, because a), having the conversation itself is damn near taboo, as conservative as we are, and b) you can't bring that into ritual, you've got to do ritual first and then have a separate conversation about that. ANDREW: For sure. Yeah. Mmmhmm. I've got to say I dig how you're navigating all that. TY: [laughs] Yeah. ANDREW: So, I've got one more question for you before we wrap up. TY: Uh huh. ANDREW: So, how do you sustain all these traditions you're doing? I get a little tired just hearing about it! [laughs] TY: On a schedule. [laughs] ANDREW: Yeah! TY: Well, I work for myself, so I wake up, usually I have sunrise meditation and yoga, and then I tend to my ancestors and whatever loa might be that day, so Tuesdays I'm on my Petro, and you know, whatever, Thursdays I'm on my rada, and then I go ahead and reap my Orisha, my ifa, and I keep it moving. At night, I normally deal with my prendas ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. TY: And I try to keep my workings to them around what's going on in the sky, and I mostly work that outside and at night. And you know, loa gives you a schedule, cause loa has to be served every day, and you know, it's certain people that you serve on certain days. Orisha, all they need daily is to breathe, pour libations and keep it moving, you know? I might throw to my Orisha, you know, my head Orisha once a month, Elegba, maybe once a week, appease him, you know, my little Sundays or Mondays, I keep it moving! You know, they, it's just ... it's such a part of my lifestyle, it's I wake up, yoga, meditation, greet Luwan, have your day, come back, say hello to the Palo people, go to bed. You got ebbó to do, do your work. ANDREW: Yeah. TY: [laughs] ANDREW: I love it. I mean I think it's one of those things, right? So many people ... I hear many people who kind of say that they want to live that kind of life, right? You know, that that's what they're looking for. TY: You gotta be built for that life. ANDREW: Yeah. [laughs] ANDREW: Yeah, cause you know, I mean, it's one of those things, right? I mean, you know, I mostly just, I mean I work with my, you know, my spirit guides and my Orisha, right? But like, it takes up a chunk of time and energy and it takes a real consistency of focus that I think that is challenging, you know? I know that I certainly when I was starting out struggled with it. And that sort of scheduling it, and just being like these are the ways that things happen, that's it, right? TY: Yeah. That's it! ANDREW: The obligation needs to be sustained, right? TY: Yeah, and I think because I didn't do it back to back. Like I had years in between each so I kind of was able to get acclimated, develop a routine, before something else came in, you know? And they're separate, I keep them separate, like they each have their own room, their own space, all of that. But they function in similar ways. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. TY: You know what I'm saying? They function in similar ways. ANDREW: Yeah. TY: So, every day if I get up and I greet my ancestors, that's gonna be a new tradition. And today, you know, I might have to blow some rum [inaudible at 00:50:04] You know what I mean? So, I mean it's not as far in or as complicated as some people make it sound. ANDREW: [inaudible--asking to repeat] TY: I said it's not as far in or complicated as some people make it sound. Even if you were just the palero, right? You're not sitting with your nganga for hours every day! You're not doing that! ANDREW: No. TY: Or most, you get up, you greet, you light 'em up and you keep it moving, unless you got something to do! ANDREW: Yeah. TY: That doesn't change, cause you got other things. ANDREW: That's true. And they've got other places to be too, right? TY: Right! ANDREW: Like they're not sitting 24 hours a day waiting for everyone. “Oh my god, I'm not bringing the tv down here, you know, we're not watching our shows together, I'm getting sad about this,” that doesn't happen, yeah. TY: They should be out there fixing the problems in my life, not sitting here! [laughs] ANDREW: Mmmhmm. For sure. That's awesome. Well, thank you so much for making time today, Ty. TY: Yep. ANDREW: People want to come and find you online, where's the best place to come and hang with you? TY: http://www.iamtyshaw.com. ANDREW: Beautiful! Go check it out! TY: Yes. ANDREW: All right. Well, thank you. TY: Yes, thank you! We'll talk soon. All right, bye.

“Humor reminds me a lot of magic, in that there’s no way to quite replicate it. There’s a power to that” The humor in Daniel José Older’s writing makes his characters come alive. Whether in the playful banter of books like Shadowshaper, in his spiritual practice of Lucumí, or alchemizing tragedy into comedy as a paramedic in New York City, he sees humor as key to finding a storytelling voice.

Part 2 of 2. We pick up where we left off last week. On this episode, our guests, Bablawo Ifakunle of Harlem (ifakunle.com) and Oluwo Familusi of Lagos (Twitter @familusiawo; Instagram @familusidamilare), two Priests of the Ifá Yoruba Traditional Religion, give us insight into what being an Ifá priest entails and what informs their morality. They dispel some misconceptions about their religion and teach us about some of the priesthood factions within the Ifá Yoruba Traditional Religion. The Ladies of NYAC discuss how our current religious practices are influenced by our culture, learn more about the proliferation of Ifá Yoruba Traditional Religion in the diaspora and how it’s transformed into religions such as Lucumí, Candomblé and Haitian Vodou. Of course, we ask our guests what they think of the resurgence of African Traditional Religious imagery, specifically Yoruba Traditional Religious imagery in pop culture thanks to Beyoncé’s Lemonade. ---------------------------------- Resources: - http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2015/10/the-spirituality-of-africa/ - http://thegrio.com/2011/10/19/african-religions-gain-following-among-black-christians/ - http://www.npr.org/2013/08/25/215298340/ancient-african-religion-finds-roots-in-america Episode was mixed by Ifeoluwa Olokode and theme song is Ayo by Femi Leye

KDCL Media & The H2O Network welcomes Oba Oriate Ernesto Pichardo, Co-Founder of the Church of the Lukumi Babalu Aye and will be speaking on the spiriual licenses as it applies to practioners of the Lucum tradition.  Oba Pichardo is a priest of Shango of 40 plus years, and is recognized throughout religious, academic, political, and social communities nationwide for his outstanding contributions to African Diaspora studies. http://www.church-of-the-lukumi.org/ On Facebook https://www.facebook.com/ChurchOfTheLukumiBabaluAye/info