Fantasy Football seasons come and go, but Dynasty Fantasy Football is Life. Theo Gremminger brings you PlayerProfiler's newest Dynasty Podcast: Dynasty Life. Theo is joined by some of the most well known and sharpest Dynasty Fantasy Analysts around. Dynasty Life will bring you everything you need to become a better Dynasty player and manager and help you win Dynasty championships. Roster Construction, Trade Targets, Dynasty Strategy, Identifying Edges and setting yourself up for long-term success. When it comes to Dynasty Fantasy, are you just participating in leagues, or are you about that Life?
Fantasy Football, PlayerProfiler, Theo Gremminger
Use code SCOREMORE10 at checkout for 10% OFF any subscription. Dominate your league. Win more bets. Level up your game. Dynasty managers, this is the episode you can't afford to miss. Joined by Ben Gretch to spotlight the most underrated dynasty values heading into the 2025 season. They break down rookie outlooks for TreVeyon Henderson, Travis Hunter, RJ Harvey, and Tet McMillan, while also debating long-term WR bets like Luther Burden and Emeka Egbuka. Then it's onto the veterans: Is De'Von Achane being drafted at his ceiling? Is Brock Purdy actually undervalued in Superflex? And is Sam LaPorta the new positional cheat code? Plus, should there be a bigger gap between Rashee Rice and Xavier Worthy? Is Chase Brown the next big riser? Ben and Scott use KTC ranks and sharp analysis to decide which players are true buy lows — and which are priced just right. Where to find us: http://twitter.com/YardsPerGretch http://twitter.com/TheOGFantasy Join the Discord here: https://www.fantasypoints.com/media/discord#/ Find Our Podcasts here: https://www.fantasypoints.com/media/podcasts#/ Subscribe to Fantasy Points for FREE: https://www.fantasypoints.com/plans#/ Fantasy Points Website - https://www.fantasypoints.com NEW! Data Suite - https://data.fantasypoints.com Twitter - https://twitter.com/FantasyPts Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/FantasyPts Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/FantasyPts TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@fantasypts #fantasypoints #nfl #fantasyfootball #dynastyfantasyfootball #FantasyFootballAdvice #dynastypoints #dynasty Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Use code SCOREMORE10 at checkout for 10% OFF any subscription. Dominate your league. Win more bets. Level up your game. Matt Harmon of Reception Perception joins Dynasty Life to break down the top rookie and second-year wide receivers to target in 2025 dynasty leagues! From elite breakouts to deep sleepers, we're covering all the WRs who could be fantasy football game-changers this season and beyond. Luther Burden vs Rome Odunze: Dynasty outlooks & scheme fits Tre Harris: Why he could thrive in LA — and what it means for Ladd McConkey's WR1 case Ricky Pearsall's Year Two upside in Kyle Shanahan's offense Kyle Williams = Stefon Diggs? Jack Bech and Jayden Higgins — under-the-radar dynasty stashes Xavier Worthy & Keon Coleman: Can they take the next step? Rookie WR Sleepers: Which Day Two guys could hit big in 2025? Matthew Golden's intriguing fit with the Packers
Are the dynasty wheels falling off for some of fantasy's biggest names — or are they undervalued league-winners in disguise? On this week's Dynasty Life, Brett Whitefield joins the show to break down which aging stars are still worth a premium and which breakout candidates might be headed for regression in 2025.
Rookie Mini Camps are wrapped — and Theo Gremminger is here to break down the Top 12 Dynasty Risers you need to know from around the league. Joined by 32BeatWriters, this episode brings boots-on-the-ground insights, early camp buzz, and actionable takeaways for your dynasty teams.
Dynasty expert Scott Connor (@CharlesChillFFB, Destination Devy) joins the show to drop his favorite undervalued players, sleeper stashes, and strategic edges you should be targeting right now in dynasty.
Dynasty Life, Season 3, Episode 9: Looking for this year's hidden gems? In this video, we're breaking down the top rookie sleepers you MUST DRAFT in 2025! These under-the-radar players could be the league-winners that everyone else overlooks. Whether you're in a redraft league or prepping for dynasty, these rookies are poised to make an impact. --
Dynasty Life, Season 3, Episode 8: Looking for this year's hidden gems? In this video, we're breaking down the top rookie sleepers you MUST DRAFT in 2025! These under-the-radar players could be the league-winners that everyone else overlooks. Whether you're in a redraft league or prepping for dynasty, these rookies are poised to make an impact. --
Dynasty Life, Season 3, Episode 7: The 2025 Dynasty Rookie Mock Draft (2 Rounds) is here! Dynasty Life is back as Theo Gremminger is joined by Cody Carpentier of RosterWatch and The Draft Rankings Show for an in-depth rookie draft breakdown. -- 2025 Dynasty Rookie Mock Draft (2 Rounds) Biggest Risers, Fallers & Sleepers RB-heavy draft strategy (PPR, Single QB format) Tet McMillan Dynasty Debate Dynasty Rookie Rankings update --
Dynasty Life, Season 3, Episode 6: Dynasty Life is back! Join host Theo Gremminger and special guest Andrew Cooper of FantasyAlarm as they break down the UPDATED Dynasty Fantasy Football Tight End Rankings & Tiers for 2025. -- Dynasty Tight End Rankings & Tiers Rookie TE values for 2025 Buy, Sell, Hold targets Veteran TEs to trade or fade Sleeper tight ends to add now Subscribe to Dynasty Life for weekly dynasty fantasy football content, rankings, trade strategy, and player breakdowns all season long! --
Dynasty Life, Season 3, Episode 5: Theo Gremminger is joined by Jim Coventry to discuss the Top 10 Breakout and Bounce-Backs to target for the 2025 season. --
Dynasty Life, Season 3, Episode 4: Theo Gremminger, Dave Kluge, and Alan Seslowsky are here with an updated 2025 Dynasty Rookie Mock Draft ! They're breaking down the top prospects before free agency shakes up the fantasy football landscape. Who should you draft in Round 1? Which sleepers could be league-winners? They cover it all, from elite WRs and RBs to the next great fantasy QBs and TEs. --
Dynasty Life, Season 3, Episode 3: Dynasty Life returns with a brand-new episode! Host Theo Gremminger is joined by Cody Carpentier of RosterWatch to break down all the biggest takeaways from the 2025 NFL Combine. Who were the biggest Fantasy Football Winners & Losers coming out of Indy? Find out which players crushed the Combine and are now skyrocketing up Dynasty Fantasy Football Rankings, including Omarion Hampton and Jaylin Noel. --
Dynasty Life, Season 3, Episode 2: Theo Gremminger is joined by Dave Kluge of Football Guys to break down 8 must-target players set to BREAK OUT in 2025 and gain dynasty value. -- These players are prime dynasty trade targets—acquire them now before their stock skyrockets! Which young quarterbacks are poised to take their game to the next level? Which second-year wide receivers are set for MASSIVE breakouts? Which young tight end is ready to make the leap into fantasy stardom? Which veteran running back could have his best season ever? --
Dynasty Life, Season 3, Episode 1: Dynasty Life is back! Host Theo Gremminger is joined by Dwain McFarland of Fantasy Life to break down the 2025 Dynasty Rookie Class with insights from his data-driven Rookie Super Model. -- Top-Ranked 2025 Rookies 2025 vs. 2024 Rookie Class Rookie Rankings vs. Consensus Fantasy Impact of NFL Free Agency and more! --
Dynasty Life, Season 2, Episode 43: Join host Theo Gremminger and Thor Nystrom as they discuss their rookie rankings and their top flag plants ahead of the NFL Combine. -- Who should you be prioritizing in the top 7 picks? What picks should you be trying to acquire right now? Should you avoid any position group this season? and more! --
Dynasty Life, Season 2, Episode 42: Join host Theo Gremminger and Ray Garvin as they play out a rookie mock draft, after the dust of the Senior Bowl has settled. -- Who should you be prioritizing in the top 7 picks? What picks should you be trying to acquire right now? Should you avoid any position group this season? and more! --
Dynasty Life, Season 2, Episode 41: Join host Theo Gremminger and Ryan Heath as they discuss the top dynasty trades to make right now, before your leaguemates hear about it. -- Who should you be targeting before the NFL Combine? Who should you be selling before the NFL Combine? Should you avoid any position group this offseason? and more! --
Dynasty Life, Season 2, Episode 40: Join host Theo Gremminger as he dives into the top 15 rookie risers after this year's Senior Bowl. -- Where are the important tiers in this years class? What picks should you be acquiring now to get ahead of your competition? Should you avoid any position group this season? and more! --
Dynasty Life, Season 2, Episode 39: Join host Theo Gremminger is joined by Expert Guest Jagger May from DLF to dive into a rookie Superflex draft for 2025 Dynasty Leagues. -- Where are the important tiers in this years class? What picks should you be acquiring now to get ahead of your competition? Should you avoid any position group this season? and more! --
Dynasty Life, Season 2, Episode 38: Join host Theo Gremminger is joined by Expert Guest Garrett from DLF to dive into top 5 rankings at each position for 2025 Dynasty Leagues. -- Where are the important tiers in this years class? What picks should you be acquiring now to get ahead of your competition? Should you avoid any position group this season? and more! --
Dynasty Life, Season 2, Episode 37: Join Theo Gremminger (@TheOGfantasy) as he is joined by special guest Cody Carpentier of South Harmon Fantasy Football, former NFL Draft Specialist at PlayerProfiler . In this episode, Theo and Cody mock draft 2 full rounds for rookies that can help you WIN your fantasy league in 2025. --
Dynasty Life, Season 2, Episode 36: Join Theo Gremminger (@TheOGfantasy) as he is joined by special guest Ryan Heath of Fantasy Points, one of the top data-driven analysts in fantasy football. In this episode, Theo and Ryan reveal 6 must-trade-for players that can help you WIN your fantasy league. -- Season-long expectations for Drake Maye Breece Hall's breakout: Is he the biggest winner this week? CJ Stroud's puzzling lack of pass attempts in Houston Sneaky trade targets you can steal before your league catches on Veteran trade strategy: Maximize value from seasoned players and more! --
Dynasty Life, Season 2, Episode 35: Join Theo Gremminger (@TheOGfantasy) as he is joined by special guest Heath Cummings of CBS Sports Fantasy Football Today Dynasty to discuss all things Dynasty Fantasy Football. In this episode, Theo and Heath break down dynasty trades you can make right now and how to handle injured players in your dynasty league. -- Chargers Big Suprise Vets to Acquire How Experts are Handling Puka Nacua Shuffling Top-12 WRs Top-5 TE Shuffle - Does Kyle Pitts Make the Cut? Top-12 RB Shuffle - Bijan Robinson #1 Breece Hall #2 and more! --
Dynasty Life, Season 2, Episode 34: Join Theo Gremminger (@TheOGfantasy) as he is joined by special guest Garret Price of Dynasty Nerds for a deep dive into the must-make moves to dominate your league. In this episode, Theo and Garret react to the highs and lows of Week 1, breaking down whether you should panic on slow starts from rookies like Caleb Williams and Marvin Harrison Jr. -- Week 1 Context Ohio favorite Marvin Harrison Jr. Bo Nix Brian Thomas Jr. Brock Bowers Caleb Williams Jayden Daniels and more! --
Dynasty Life, Season 2, Episode 33: Join Theo Gremminger (@TheOGfantasy) as he is joined by special guest Brett Whitefield, COO of Fantasy Points Data and one of the top NFL prospect evaluators in Fantasy Football. Together, they break down the 2024 rookie class, identifying 12 players who could tilt Fantasy Leagues in your favor. Some of these rookies have the potential to be true league winners in their first NFL season! -- 2025 QB Class Names to Know in Dynasty Jayden Daniels Expectations Caleb Williams - how highly does he finish in 2024 Fantasy Football? Odunze vs Nabers Nix vs Maye Rookie WR Hype Rookie RB Sleepers Brock Bowers 2024 smash season? --
Dynasty Life, Season 2, Episode 32: Join Theo Gremminger (@TheOGfantasy) as he is joined by special guest Ryan Heath from Fantasy Points to dive deep into the 2024 Fantasy Football landscape. In this must-watch episode, Theo and Ryan explore Ryan's extensive, data-driven research and knowledge on Fantasy Football Age Curves. Discover which younger players should be a crucial part of your draft strategy and learn how to identify those potential League Winners before the season kicks off. Whether drafting or trading in Dynasty leagues, these breakout stars could be the key to your 2024 success. -- JJ McCarthy Aftermath Predicting RB Breakouts Bijan Robinson vs Breece Hall Jahmyr Gibbs vs DeVon Achane Tyjae Spears vs Chase Brown Kendre Miller is free CMC Mount Rushmore Other RB ADPs to consider Aaron Jones/James Conner/Derrick Henry Davante Adams exposure Cooper “Wheels Up” Kupp JSN FTW Christian Watson Don't forget about Luke Musgrave Travis
Dynasty Life, Season 2, Episode 31: Join Theo Gremminger (@TheOGfantasy) as he is joined by special guest Ian Miller as they take a deep dive into the 2024 NFL Preseason and Training Camp, focusing on the TOP 10 second-year players you need to watch. These are the potential breakout stars who can drastically gain or lose value in August, impacting your fantasy football and dynasty fantasy football strategy. -- 2nd Year QB's battling for #1 Tight Ends looking elite Running Backs taking a step forward What other 2nd year players can take the leap? 10 key Second-Year Players to Watch Bryce Young vs Will Levis Rashee Rice Give this player their Flowers! Another 2nd year receiver to Add Chase this 2nd year player's ADP or pump the brakes? It's Tyjae Spears --
Dynasty Life, Season 2, Episode 30: Join Theo Gremminger (@TheOGfantasy) as he is joined by special guest Jagger May from Football Guys for Top 12 BOLD Predictions for 2024 Fantasy Football! Dive into expert insights as Theo and Jagger make BOLD PREDICTIONS that can help you win in 2024 Fantasy Football and DOMINATE your Dynasty Leagues! -- Top 5 RB Predictions: Discover which running backs Theo believes will finish as Top 5 Scorers in 2024. Top 3 QB Sleeper: Uncover which quarterback will crush his ADP and finish as a Top 3 Scorer. Rookie RB Surprise: Learn about the sleeper rookie running back Jagger predicts will finish as an RB2. WR Breakouts: Find out which rookie wide receivers will emulate Puka Nacua and Ja'Marr Chase, finishing as WR1s. TE Prioritization: See which tight end Theo is prioritizing in both Dynasty and Redraft leagues. --
Dynasty Life, Season 2, Episode 29: Join Theo Gremminger (@TheOGfantasy) as he is joined by special guest Alan Seslowsky of Rotowire as they dive into the 2024 NFL Training Camps to predict the 7 players whose ADP and Dynasty values are set to SKYROCKET in August. Get the inside scoop on these rising stars before the rest of your Fantasy League catches on. -- What training camp signals are important? Top-7 NFL Training Camp Risers --
Dynasty Life, Season 2, Episode 28: Join Theo Gremminger (@TheOGfantasy) as he is joined by special guest Alan Seslowsky of Rotowire as they dive into the 2024 NFL Training Camps to predict the 7 players whose ADP and Dynasty values are set to SKYROCKET in August. Get the inside scoop on these rising stars before the rest of your Fantasy League catches on. -- What training camp signals are important? Top-7 NFL Training Camp Risers --
Dynasty Life, Season 2, Episode 27: Join Theo Gremminger (@TheOGfantasy) as he is joined by Heath Cummings of CBS Sports as they reveal 8 players to SELL HIGH RIGHT NOW to maximize your trade value and supercharge your dynasty roster. -- Rookie Breakout? Ben Sinnott MarShawn Lloyd Green Bay WR Room breakdown Post-Hype Sleepers Sell-Highs --
Dynasty Life, Season 2, Episode 26: Join Theo Gremminger (@TheOGfantasy) as he is joined by Derek Brown (@DBro_FFB) of Fantasy Pros for an epic Dynasty Mock Draft featuring only Rookies and Second-Year Players. -- Which offense will take a big step forward? Non top-12 WR that can breakthrough to be WR1 Rookie + Sophomore only Draft! JSN turned up to 11! Players who missed the cut --
Dynasty Life, Season 2, Episode 25: Join Theo Gremminger (@TheOGfantasy) as he is joined by special guest Ian Miller as they dive into the world of Dynasty Fantasy Football Sleepers. This isn't your ordinary sleepers show; Theo and Ian reveal 10 under-the-radar players poised to disrupt the Dynasty Rankings and become breakout stars. -- Ambiguous Situations: New England WRs, Denver RBs/WRs Trey Benson vs Jonathon Brooks Who is the TE2? Who is the WR3 Future QB1? Keon Coleman: Fade Candidate? Drake Maye vs JJ McCarthy Tank Dell, Jayden Reed, Xavier Worthy, MarShawn Lloyd, Rashee Rice, Jermaine Burton and more! --
Dynasty Life, Season 2, Episode 24: Join Theo Gremminger (@TheOGfantasy) as he is joined by Shane Manila from Dynasty Trades in 5 and Destination Devy in this exciting episode of Dynasty Life! Discover the 8 key players you need to trade for RIGHT NOW to elevate your Dynasty Fantasy Football roster. -- Dynasty Startup Strategy Are Running Backs Cheap in Startups? Where do you rank Brock Bowers in Dynasty? Malik Nabers Rookie Year Outlook. Ja'Marr Chase Trade Discussion. This RB could BREAK FANTASY. Jaylen Waddle Big Year 4? --
Dynasty Life, Season 2, Episode 23: Join Theo Gremminger (@TheOGfantasy) as he is joined by Ryan Heath of Fantasy Points. Tune in as Theo and Ryan discuss DYNASTY BREAKOUT PLAYERS you need to DRAFT in your Dynasty Startups and TARGET in your Dynasty Trades. These players will return MAJOR value to Dynasty Managers in 2024 - don't miss out. -- 1st-Downs/Per-Route-Run, predict FPoints/games Christian Watson vs Dontayvion Wicks Missed-tackles-forced/per-touch Jaylen Warren vs Najee Harris Buyer beware RBs Flag plant RBs Will Levis/Titans Offensive Attack Amari Cooper still got it --
Dynasty Life, Season 2, Episode 22: Join Theo Gremminger (@TheOGfantasy) as he is joined by Danny Kelly from The Ringer for an in-depth discussion on Dynasty Fantasy Football. -- Devon Achane... Best WR Rookie value This years Devon Achane How do you Find Breakouts? Future of the Denver running game Poster child for Post-hype sleepers Circle these 2 TEs --
Dynasty Life, Season 2, Episode 21: Join Theo Gremminger (@TheOGfantasy) as he is joined by Jared Smola (@SmolaDS) of Draft Sharks as they dive into 2024 Dynasty Fantasy Football strategies. Discover what to do with those old guys on your Dynasty roster and which veterans you should target in Dynasty Startups and in Dynasty Trades. -- Veteran Age Apex Nuance: RBs: Derrick Henry, Christian McCaffrey, Saquon Barkley, Aaron Jones, Joe Mixon, Alvin Kamara TEs: Travis Kelce, Mark Andrews, Evan Engram, George Kittle, WRs: Deebo Samuel, Stefon Diggs, Keenan Allen, Davante Adams, Tyreek Hill, Mike Evans, Calvin Ridley, DeAndre Hopkins, Cooper Kupp, Terry McLaurin --
Join Theo Gremminger (@TheOGfantasy) as he is joined by Jax Falcone for a Reddit Dynasty AMA. --
Dynasty Life, Season 2, Episode 20: Join Theo Gremminger (@TheOGfantasy) as he is joined by Davis Mattek for an explosive episode. They drop 20 RED HOT SCORCHING BOLD DYNASTY PREDICTIONS and FANTASY HOT TAKES! -- This season's ascending offense? Davis' favorite Week 17 Game? Green Bay's WR1 This year's DJ Moore? De'Von Achane SZN Garrett Wilson Revenge Tour A Ravens Record is Broken This RB leads the Denver Backfield --
Dynasty Life, Season 2, Episode 19: Join Theo Gremminger (@TheOGfantasy) as he teams up with high-stakes dynasty experts Dan Williamson (@OverHypedSleepr) and Austin Martin. Dive into the 2024 Dynasty Fantasy Football season and uncover the latest strategies and insights. -- Exploring the top rookie draft risers like Jaylen Wright and hidden sleepers like Tyrone Tracy Discovering which rookies are making waves in high-stakes leagues Finding out which sleepers High Stakes managers are targeting including Kimani Vidal and Jalen McMillan Analyzing crucial ADP decisions in both TE Premium and Superflex leagues: Jayden Daniels or Marvin Harrison Jr.? Brian Thomas or Ladd McConkey? Trey Benson or Jonathon Brooks? --
Dynasty Life, Season 2, Episode 18: Theo Gremminger (@TheOGfantasy) is joined by Ian Miller (@dynasty_im) and Josh Larky (@jlarkytweets) to tackle the 2024 Dynasty Fantasy Football Superflex Rankings & Startup Mock Draft. -- Find out which players you should prioritize to build a winning roster Can anyone challenge Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes for the top spots? Learn the best time to draft stars like Ja'Marr Chase and CeeDee Lamb Who reigns supreme as Dynasty RB1 between Bijan Robinson, Jahmyr Gibbs, or Breece Hall? Should you consider veteran stars like Christian McCaffrey and Tyreek Hill in your lineup? --
Dynasty Life, Season 2, Episode 17: Theo Gremminger (@TheOGfantasy) is joined by Dynasty Expert Scott Connor from Dynasty Trades in 5 and Destination Devy, diving deep into the latest post-NFL Draft Dynasty Rookie Draft Rankings, revealing their Top 24 Overall picks alongside expert strategy insights. --
Dynasty Life, Season 2, Episode 16: Theo Gremminger (@TheOGfantasy) is joined by Jax as they dissect the highly anticipated 2024 rookie class, unveiling Targets, Fades and Sleepers. -- Discover priority targets like Ladd McConkey, Brian Thomas Jr., and Xavier Worthy, Unlock the optimal draft positions for Jonathon Brooks and Trey Benson Find out which Sleepers Theo and Jax are making MUST DRAFT Targets including Kimani Vidal Explore the potential of NFL Draft QB risers Michael Penix Jr. and Bo Nix, and learn which tiers offer the best trade opportunities for draft domination. --
Dynasty Life, Season 2, Episode 15: Theo Gremminger (@TheOGfantasy) is joined by special guest Shawn Siegele of RotoViz as they dive deep into the highly anticipated 2024 rookie class. -- How to Leverage your Rookie Picks for Maximum Value Should you trade Puka Nacua for the 1.04? What about Garrett Wilson for the 1.03? Explore the impact of rookies like Caleb Williams, Brock Bowers and Marvin Harrison Jr. --
Dynasty Life, Season 2, Episode 14: Theo Gremminger (@TheOGfantasy) is joined by Scott Barrett from Fantasy Points, a renowned Dynasty Expert, to bring you exclusive insights into the 2024 Dynasty Fantasy Football landscape. -- Join us as Scott unveils his highly anticipated Top 10 Rookie RB & WR Rankings for the 2024 NFL Draft Class. Discover Scott's unique perspectives on standout rookies like Marvin Harrison Jr., Rome Odunze, and Malik Nabers. Gain valuable fantasy outlooks on Brian Thomas Jr. and Ladd McConkey, and learn which WRs Scott identifies as potential FANTASY BUSTS. Scott dives deep into the RB spot, sharing his enthusiasm for Jonathon Brooks and discussing their ideal landing spots. And that's just the beginning! Scott reveals his MUST DRAFT FLAG PLANT RB, WR, and TE—three Rookie Sleepers poised to elevate your Dynasty Team without sacrificing valuable early-round picks. --
Dynasty Life, Season 2, Episode 13: Theo Gremminger (@TheOGfantasy) is joined by Ryan McDowell from DLF as they unveil their 2024 Dynasty Fantasy Football Rookie Draft Targets. -- Understanding just how good this rookie WR class is Crystal Ball Player for 2024 Ascending Offenses to target this season Which rookie WR has the best chance to be WR1 overall Top QB trade targets in dynasty The shifting value of veteran RBs A cheap WR target you need now High profile sell before its too late --
Dynasty Life, Season 2, Episode 12: Theo Gremminger (@TheOGfantasy) is joined by Garret Price from Dynasty Nerds for another powerhouse episode packed with actionable insights and expert analysis. -- Unveiling the Top 10 Sell High Dynasty trade candidates Is Trey McBride destined for greatness? Could he be the next Travis Kelce or the ultimate Dynasty Sell High at TE? Will AJ Brown dominate under Kellen Moore, or is it time to sell high before his Dynasty value dips? Which year three running backs you need to unload Before the NFL Draft How to handle the Rashee Rice situation, and fellow Chiefs WR Hollywood Brown --
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