Revitalize and Replant

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst discuss some current trends that pastors need to be aware of for their churches and communities. Some Highlights: More social media issues Changing family dynamics Increasing cultural headwinds

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst discuss some current trends that pastors need to be aware of—both within their churches and throughout their communities. Some Highlights: Mental health issues Senior life The current political environment Changing public schools Social media issues

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst share some reasons why churches are moving from multiple worship services with different worship styles to a single worship style. Some Highlights: Multiple worship styles created an “us-versus-them” mentality. The church did not have the resources to do multiple styles with quality. The church moved from multiple services to one service. The millennial generation has influenced many churches. Worship wars are waning. Multiple generations are becoming more accustomed to different types of church music and worship styles. Resources Related to This Episode: “Six Reasons Some Churches are Moving Back to One Worship Style” by Kenny Lamm

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst discuss an article from Sam Rainer on some simple and creative ways to love your local community. Some Highlights: Don't go home. Join the fun. Live with your people. Stop complaining. Stay active. Join a civic organization. Try something new on a regular basis. Resources Related to This Episode: “Seven Ways to Love Your Community” by Sam Rainer

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst share more reasons why we need to learn from the Puritans, based on an article from Jeff Robinson. Some Highlights: Because they saw all of life as being lived coram deo—before the face of God Because they were highly decorated soldiers on the spiritual battlefield Because they were skilled physicians of the souls Because they understood contentment in Christ as the key to genuine happiness Resources Related to This Episode: “Eight Reasons Why We Need the Puritans” by Jeff Robinson Little Pilgrim's Progress: From John Bunyan's Classic by Helen Taylor and Joanne Brubaker Following God Fully: An Introduction to the Puritans by Michael Reeves and Joel Beeke The Godly Man's Picture by Thomas Watson

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst share some reasons why we need to learn from the Puritans, based on an article from Jeff Robinson. Some Highlights: Because they were mature and we are not Because they understood the deep sinfulness of the human heart Because they knew their best life was later Because they viewed the family as a little church Resources Related to This Episode: “Eight Reasons Why We Need the Puritans” by Jeff Robinson A Quest for Godliness: The Puritan Vision of the Christian Life by J.I. Packer

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst discuss whether counting worship attendance still makes sense, based on an article from Sam Rainer. Healthy reasons to count: Rhythms build discipleship. Presence enables connection. Trends reveal direction. Opportunities increase. Unhealthy reasons to count: Legalism creeps in. Growth becomes a game. Charisma overshadows calling. Quantity replaces quality. Resources Related to This Episode: “Does Counting Worship Attendance Still Make Sense for Churches?” by Sam Rainer

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Kyle Bueermann discuss some issues surrounding worship in the local church.

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, Kyle Bueermann discuss an article from Chuck Lawless on why you and your church should be practicing the spiritual disciplines: The disciplines slow us down. They put us in a position to listen to God. They emphasize relationships. They force us to see where we place our dependence. They uncover the sin that’s hindering our walk with God. They correct our sins of omission. They prepare us to teach and lead others. They produce in us godly confidence and excitement. Resources Related to This Episode: “8 Reasons Spiritual Disciplines Matter” by Chuck Lawless

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst discuss an article from Mike Ayers that covers some tips for longevity in church ministry. Some Highlights: Be teachable Know your identity Faithfulness first Develop a hard shell; maintain a soft heart Simply don't quit Resources Related to This Episode: “5 Ways to Last 20 Years in the Same Church” by Mike Ayers

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst discuss a few lessons they’ve learned from Christian Communicators Worldwide on the problem of complaining—and how Scripture offers us its cure. Some Highlights: God commands me never to complain. God commands me to give thanks in every circumstance. God commands me to rejoice always, especially in times of trial. I always deserve much worse than what I am suffering now; in fact, I deserve hell. In light of the eternal happiness and glory I’ll experience in heaven, this present trial is brief and insignificant, even if it were to last a lifetime. My suffering is far less than that which Christ suffered, yet He did not complain. To complain is to say God is not just. Faith and prayer exclude complaining. This difficulty is being used by God for my good, and it is foolish for me to complain against it. Those more faithful than I have suffered far worse than I and have done so without complaint. Complaining denies that God's grace is entirely sufficient for me. The greatest suffering—the worst trial or difficulty—can never rob me of that which is of greatest value to me and my great joy: namely, the love of Christ. Resources Related to This Episode: “A 12-Point Cure for Complaining” by Bill Izard

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst discuss some lessons from Puritan pastor Thomas Watson on personal holiness. Some Highlights: Holiness produces joy. Holiness takes intentionality. Holiness will never be reached. Holiness comes from God working through His Word. Holiness requires us to think rightly about sin. Holiness does not save us; only Christ does. Resources Related to This Episode: “Six Lessons on Holiness from Thomas Watson” by Cassie Watson The Godly Man's Picture: Drawn with a Scripture Pencil by Thomas Watson

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst discuss an article from Jim Elliff on what to do when travel ball becomes an idol in the lives of folks in your church. Resources Related to This Episode: “When Ball Becomes Baal” by Jim Elliff

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst discuss an article from Vanderbloemen on how to handle underperforming church staff members: Why firing staff members may prove more difficult in a smaller church What you must consider about the long-term health of both the church and the staff member What happens when you fail to address an ineffective team member What church leaders should do in these sticky situations! Resources Related to this Episode: How to Handle an Ineffective Church Staff Member

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst discuss some ways to diagnose whether your church is ready to enter into a season of revitalization and renewal: Hearts that are humble – “This is the Lord's church, not ours.” Desire to reach the community with the gospel – “This is our mission and mission field.” Commitment to submit to the Bible – “The Word of God is our authority.” Willingness to take risks and do whatever it takes – “We are desperate to see God move here.” Belief that God can actually revitalize dying churches – “God isn't done with us.” Resources Related to This Episode: Falling in Love with Jesus (Again) by David Jackson Flickering Lamps: Christ and His Church by Henry and Richard Blackaby God's Not Done with Your Church by Mark Hallock

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst discuss some ways to build trust in your local church: Be you. Listen actively. Show consistency. Pursue, but know when to give space. Follow through on commitments. Lean into the awkward. Don't be easily offended.

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst share some thoughts on the recent SBC Annual Meeting: Love the brothers A wonderful Small Church Pastor's Lunch The SBC Pastor's Conference Our heart for missions The miracle that is the SBC Resources Related to This Episode: 2025 Replant Summit

Mark Clifton and Dan Hurst discuss an article from Chuck Lawless on the importance of patience in ministry. Jesus, our role model, was patient with His disciples. Patience is a witness of the Spirit in our lives. In many cases, somebody has also been patient with us. Many church members are themselves undisciplined. They are often under stress unbeknownst to us. Sometimes, they're not truly believers. We occasionally expect church members to quickly buy into something we've been considering for months. Resources Related to This Episode: “7 Reasons We Must Be Patient with Church Members” by Chuck Lawless

Mark Clifton and Dan Hurst discuss an article from Jim Farrer at Biblical Leadership about why some situations are more difficult for churches today. Churches are filled with “ignostics” – they are ignorant of biblical truth. Many people are dealing with problems that our churches have not been equipped to handle. Resources Related to this Episode: “10 Reasons Why It's Harder for the Church Today” by Jim Farrer

Mark Clifton and Dan Hurst discuss an article from Jim Farrer at Biblical Leadership about why some situations are more difficult for churches today. So much time and energy is spent on maintaining current strategies The reality of transfer growth The vast majority of growth is coming from churches planted in the last couple of decades The world around us has changed Resources Related to this Episode: “10 Reasons Why It's Harder for the Church Today” by Jim Farrer

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst discuss an article from Chris Crain, Executive Director of the Birmingham Metro Baptist Association. Here are some causes for conflict in churches. Pride Spiritual and Emotional Immaturity Change and Inflexibility Abuses of Power Church Politics Unclear Authority Personality Differences

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst discuss some different styles of church leadership. The authoritarian leader creates a culture of fear. The disengaged leader creates a culture of floundering. The directive leader creates a culture of flourishing.

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst discuss how pastors can feed the people in your church. Resources Related to this Episode: Leading Church Revitalization by Mark Hallock

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst discuss how pastors can feed the people in your church. The role of preaching in shepherding the church. What is your strategy for raising up pastors and deacons in the life of your church? Resources Related to this Episode: Leading Church Revitalization by Mark Hallock

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst discuss how pastors can feed the people in your church. Resources Related to this Episode: Leading Church Revitalization by Mark Hallock

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst discuss how pastors can shepherd well in their churches. How can a pastor know his flock? Feeding, leading, and protecting require knowing the flock Resources Related to this Episode: Leading Church Revitalization by Mark Hallock

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst discuss how pastors can navigate leading through changes early in their ministry at a church. Why “Don't change anything in the first year” is a bit too simplistic. Help your folks understand the “why” behind changes. Am I the right person to lead this change, and if not, am I better suited for a second-chair ministry?

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst discuss some difficult situations that pastors may need to shepherd through in their churches. How do you shepherd an unmarried couple who have been attending your church, but have been dishonest about their living situation? A couple asks you to perform their marriage ceremony. They claim to be believers but are not actively involved in any church. How do you shepherd church members who are unwise in their social media usage? How do you shepherd a leader whose marriage is clearly not in a good spot, but they are unwilling to talk about it? Issues surrounding alcohol usage.

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst talk about some ways to effectively connect with first-time visitors.

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst discuss an article from Sam Rainer on some simple metrics to determine if your church is truly revitalized. Children and students comprise 25% or more of average worship attendance. Conversion ratio reaches 20:1 or better. Giving consistently exceeds expenses. Deferred maintenance is minimized. The number of people in groups is 80% or more of average worship attendance. Resources Related to this Episode: “How to Know Your Church is Revitalized (5 Key Indicators)” by Sam Rainer

Mark Clifton and Dan Hurst welcome D.J. Horton, President of the 2025 SBC Pastor's Conference, to the show! D.J. talks about his heart for bivocational pastors, church revitalization, and some things surrounding the 2025 SBC Pastor's Conference in Dallas this June. D.J.'s journey in ministry to this point, including his 20+ years at Church at the Mill. D.J.'s life as the son of a bivocational pastor and his experience in smaller membership churches. The heart behind the 2025 SBC Pastor's Conference Why pastors of smaller churches should make it to the Pastor's Conference and SBC Annual Meeting in Dallas in June.

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst discuss an article from Barnabas Piper about what to do when your children resist and even resent your ministry in the church. Remember your family is your primary ministry. Remember you are called to lead your family. Acknowledge that ministry is hard on kids and costly to families. Consider the stage your kids are in and the cost of ministry for them. Take your kids' challenges to your fellow leaders for prayer and care Consider your home and family dynamics Consider your church's relational and cultural dynamics Find outlets for relief Consider stepping away from ministry. Resources Related to this Episode: “Help! My Kids Aren't on Board with Ministry” by Barnabas Piper

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst discuss an article from Lifeway about some difficult people you will encounter in church and ministry life. The Dominator The Dodger The Debater The Drainer Resources Related to this Episode: 4 Difficult People You'll Encounter in Ministry – and How to Handle Them by Christ Surratt

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst discuss how pastors should prepare and preach the invitation. Every sermon needs to lead to an intentional ask, call, or response. Never assume the hearer knows what to do. In fact, assume their next move needs to be directed by clearly articulated direction. Spend time in your preparation: Identifying what response should be made after the message. Craft thoughtful expressions of calling for salvation, service, or obedience. Decide whether there should be application following each point, or one invitational call at the end of the meeting. Make sure you plan to leave significant time and energy for your invitation and never let it be an afterthought.

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst discuss how the word “revitalization” can sometimes be uncomfortable, and why the word “renew” may better communicate what we mean. Become a praying church. Understand the church's mission. Focus on what God can do. The Word is the Word to follow. Serve God with glory. Resources Related to this Episode: 5 Steps to Local Church Renewal by Desmond Barrett

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst discuss how some things for pastors to think through when it comes to their attire on Sunday mornings. Ask the question, “What does what I'm wearing communicate?” You don't want your clothes to distract. Wear clothes that are culturally appropriate, but plain. “Be prayerful and honest with yourself about this. Sure, not everyone will agree with where you fall on this issue, but I would encourage two things: 1) make sure your conscience is clear before the Lord in this and 2) always err on the side of plain and unimpressive.” – Mark Hallock Resources Related to this Episode: What Should a Pastor Wear by Mark Hallock

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst talk about some ways to pray for children who have strayed from the faith. Pray for a heart of brokenness, no matter the earthly cost. Pray against the enemy's desire to have them. Pray specific Scripture over their life. Resources Related to this Episode: Pray Them Home by Sarah Walton

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst discuss some types of sermons that just don't hit the mark. The “I want to show you how creative and clever I am” sermon. The “I want to be real and authentic and vulnerable at all costs” sermon. The “I am passionate about biblical and systematic theology, and you should be too” sermon. The “I love to make the Bible practical for all people without explaining to them what it means” sermon. The “I want you to live the purposeful, prosperous, victorious life you deserve” sermon. Resources Related to this Episode: 5 Types of Sermons That Fall Short by Mark Hallock

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst talk about the danger of gossip and slander in the life of a church. Here are good questions to evaluate whether the things you are hearing are information you need to know as a pastor or if it's entering into the realm of gossip: Does this information involve me or affect me directly? What is the motive of the person who passed this information on to me? What is going on in my heart? Resources Related to this Episode: Fighting the “Respectable” Sins of Gossip and Slander by Mark Hallock

Mark Clifton, Mark Hallock, and Dan Hurst talk about some things pastors should know about the kids in their church. Know their names and basic info. Know what they enjoy. Know where they are spiritually. Resources Related to this Episode: 3 Things Pastors Should Know About Every Kid in Your Church by Mark Hallock Shepherding a Child's Heart by Ted Tripp  How does a Pastor Respond to: “When Is My Child Ready for Baptism?” by Mark Hallock

Mark Clifton and Dan Hurst discuss what to do when you have a church of primarily older adults. Don't use a cheesy name for senior adult ministries. Don't underestimate the value of senior adults. Find ways to connect your older adults with younger folks in the church. Find some way for an older church to be involved in children's ministry. Use people to read Scripture publicly in your worship service. Use prayer warriors to lead your people to pray.

Mark Clifton and Dan Hurst discuss some reasons pastors get depressed and why they often don't talk about it. Spiritual warfare The surprising reality of pastoral leadership. Sense of inadequacy Critics and bullies Loneliness Resources Related to this Episode: 5 Reasons Pastors Get Depressed (And Why Tey Don't Talk About It) by Thom Rainer

Mark Clifton and Dan Hurst discuss some of the dangers of focusing on church growth as the only metric you look at. Love the church you have. Love your community ministry footprint. Change the scorecard.

Mark Clifton and Mark Hallock discuss how to handle church facilities that are too large for the current congregation. Reconfigure your worship center to be an appropriate size for your congregation. Use your building as an incubator for church plants. Share your building with the community. Share your building with appropriate non-profits. Find ways to use your building to bless the community.

Mark Clifton and Mark Hallock discuss some mistakes that Mark C. made when he was leading Wornall Road Baptist Church. I didn't know the context. I brought the wrong toolkit. I wasn't spiritually prepared. I loved the church I wanted, not the church I had. Initially, I saw the community as a prospect to grow my church, rather than loving the community.

Mark Clifton and Mark Hallock talk about how you can protect your family from the uglier sides of church revitalization and replanting. Do not undersell the pain of revitalization to your family. Make sure your wife has some friendships outside the church that can strengthen her spiritually. Find places for your kids to grow spiritually, even if it means they're involved in another church's children's or youth ministries. As a family, find another local church that has weeknight home/life groups.

Mark Clifton and Mark Hallock discuss some important aspects of effective church business meetings. Stick with Robert's Rules of Order. Be optimistic about the tone of the meeting. Find ways to build consensus, particularly on contention issues, beforehand. Have tactical patience when it comes to divisive issues. Begin the meeting with worship and prayer. Spend some time with the matriarchs and patriarchs of your church to get the history of business meetings in your church.

Mark Clifton and Mark Hallock discuss some ways that your church can come alongside other churches. Form a prayer partnership between your congregation and another congregation. Proactively find a church plant or ethnic congregation and invite them to use your building. Do a special event of some kind (worship night, community outreach, retreat, etc.) with one or more churches in your community. Send 3 or 4 families from your church to intentionally serve and help strengthen a declining congregation in your community for 6-12 months. Take the lead as a congregation in coming alongside a dying church and replanting it as a new congregation with fresh hope and vision. Resources Related to this Episode: Save the Date for the 2025 Replant Summit! – August 25-26 in Alpharetta, GA

Mark Clifton and Mark Hallock discuss some things they would tell their younger selves about what it means to be a dad. Be intentional about discipling your children. Live out your love for Jesus in a genuine way in front of your kids. Be cautious about how you talk about the church in front of your kids. Laugh a lot with your kids. If your kids see you quarrel with your spouse, make sure they see you make up too.

Mark Clifton and Mark Hallock discuss some things they would tell their younger selves about what it means to be a husband. You must learn to be a better listener. Don't try to fix everything but just be a soft place to land. Learn to love what your wife loves. Be present. Find ways to love her family.

Mark Clifton and Mark Hallock discuss some things they would tell their younger selves about what it means to be a pastor. Quit trying to worry about numerical results Focus on the gospel and realize that my worth is found in Jesus Christ and what He has accomplished on the cross. Listen more and talk less. Cherish the small things and the small victories. Only eternity will reveal the results of your labor.