Podcasts about ltw

(Part 2) Carrie attempts to bond with Aiden's kids, Miranda attempts to get with Joy, Harry attempts to get it up and LTW talks in her sleep. Plus, Cecily gives us lots of SATC tidbits! Don't skip ahead to part 2 or you will be missing out!

(Part 1) Carrie attempts to bond with Aiden's kids, Miranda attempts to get with Joy, Harry attempts to get it up and LTW talks in her sleep. Plus, Cecily gives us lots of SATC tidbits! Don't skip ahead to part 2 or you will be missing out!

Carrie Bradshaw is on ATV and we don't know how to feel about it, but we do know that this episode through us for a loop. But before that, we discuss Call Her Daddy for some reason. And then we get into it all - Ryan Serhant is back, LTW is in Desperate Housewives territory, the show's attempt at taking on aging, Miranda is cat sitting, and that ending!!

Carrie's in Virginia, folks! And her (possibly Christian Scientist?) boyfriend Aidan is whimsically forcing painting and games upon his children as he tries to get them to like Carrie, and we couldn't help but wonder…where did their chemistry go? Was it lost in Aidan's constant jokes and shouting? Hard to say! Harry's Pop Pop comes to visit and donate his banana to neighbors in need as Harry contemplates his own banana/mortality, Lilly introduces her polyboyf to the family, LTW tries to fight off sleep divorce and considers a MAN (a hot one) as a possible new editor, Seema leaves her job for real, and Miranda gets memed after a tough on air appearance, but ends the episode getting kissed at. Join us over on patreon.com/kevinandjon for year-round fun, and if you don't mind, hit us with a rating and a review! And we promise we won't make you play any games.

We're joined by Traitors Canada royalty, Tranna Wintour, to break down the latest episode of AJLT! For the first 20 minutes of this episode we're catching up and talking about the Traitors 4 cast reveal and Evan's recent interview with Zeke Smith. Then, we dive into the Upside Down world of And Just Like… where we talk about eating KFC in bed, Harry wetting his pants at the club, Charlotte's late night out, Hot Fellas' bread offerings, LTW's 8 year passion project, Seema's bad attitude, the Adderall shortage in Virginia and Carrie's self-indulgent “novel.” Plus, we dive into a whole lot of SATC history.Find us on Instagram:Drop Your Buffs: @dropyourbuffspodEvan: @evanrosskatzSean: @soda.pup Tranna: @trannawintour This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit dropyourbuffs.substack.com/subscribe

Jonathan welcomes Dr. Bill Davis of Covenant College back to Candid Conversations to explore the rich Biblical basis, spiritual significance, and transformative power of Sabbath rest, both personally, as a family, and as a faith community. Dr. Davis shares insightful, real‑world practices from raising children to enjoy delight-filled Sundays, to intentional worship rhythms, and honoring the Sabbath as a gift, not a burden. They also explore the balance between ritual and legalism, the role of Sabbath rest in guarding against burnout, and its deep roots in the books of Exodus and Deuteronomy. Whether you're parenting young ones, navigating work-life rhythms, or seeking spiritual renewal, this episode offers clarity, encouragement, and actionable guidance on embracing Sabbath rest as a foretaste of heavenly peace.To ask Jonathan a question or connect with the Candid community, visit https://LTW.org/CandidFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/candidpodInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/candidpodTwitter: https://twitter.com/thecandidpodCheck out these other Candid Conversations with Dr. Bill Davis:A Biblical Look at Caregiving and Honoring Aging Loved Ones: Dr. Bill DavisHow Should We Care for Our Aging Loved Ones (Part 1): Dr. Bill DavisHow Should We Care for Our Aging Loved Ones (Part 2): Dr. Bill DavisRoe v. Wade Conversations with Dr. Bill Davis Building Bridges in a Cancel Culture: Dr. Bill DavisLet's Talk About Suicide: Dr. Bill Davis 

In this episode Carrie flies to Virginia for lunch with her "boyfriend" Aiden and Seema tags along. Charlotte and Harry go to an ill fated after party with her Gen Z co-worker and can't keep up. Miranda and BBC producer Joy have drinks. LTW faces a career crisis and Anthony cannot find the right Hot Fellas to sell his bread.We have a PATREON! click on link below to check out the extra content:PatreonPlease SUBSCRIBE to the podcast and give us a 5-star rating and review.We are on Instagram and TikTok @psychlegalpopEmail: psychlegalpoppodcast@gmail.com#andjustlikethat #max #maxandjustlikethat #andjustlikethatseason3 #andjustlikethatseason3episode3 #andjustlikethatcarriegolightly #carriegolightly #carriebradshaw #mirandahobbs #charlotteyork #seemapatel #lisatoddwexley #anthonymarentino #aidenshaw #sexandthecity #maxandjustlikethat #psychology #attorney #therapist #law #lawyer #popculture #popularculture Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

(Part 2)Contrary to what Cecily promised, this show isn't getting a lot better but it's even easier to make fun of! So glass half full, guys! Carrie and Seema take a trip to Virginia to drop in on Aiden, LTW loses her editor and Charlotte and Harry go to da club. Plus, Miranda gets a few lines.

Contrary to what Cecily promised, this show isn't getting a lot better but it's even easier to make fun of! So glass half full, guys! Carrie and Seema take a trip to Virginia to drop in on Aiden, LTW loses her editor and Charlotte and Harry go to da club. Plus, Miranda gets a few lines.

In this episode, Carrie takes a friend to Williamsburg, Virginia to have lunch with Aidan, whether or not he's actually willing to take her home! Charlotte goes out to the party, after party, and after-after party to network and up her painting-selling business while wing-womaning a friend, Harry has a very understandable incident with button jeans, Miranda has her first kinda-date with the reporter, Anthony has an absolute non-story arc with objectifying his big hog boyf for his bread shop, LTW unreasonably flips out about her editor taking a much better job instead of continuing with a decade-long documentary that will never end, and Seema gets passed over at her job and acts in a way that has us asking, rhetorically: we're supposed to hate her, right? Rate and review us, daddy! And join all the fun with dozens and dozens of exclusive podcast and videos over at Patreon.com/kevinandjon!

Carrie has difficulty interpreting Aidan's messages. Seema reluctantly agrees to see a matchmaker. Charlotte and LTW want to give their children an advantage in college applications. Miranda discovers reality TV.We have a PATREON! click on link below to check out the extra content:PatreonPlease SUBSCRIBE to the podcast and give us a 5-star rating and review.We are on Instagram and TikTok @psychlegalpopEmail: psychlegalpoppodcast@gmail.com#andjustlikethat #max #maxandjustlikethat #andjustlikethatseason3 #andjustlikethatseason3episode2 #carriebradshaw #mirandahobbs #charlotteyork #seemapatel #lisatoddwexley #anthonymarentino #aidenshaw #sexandthecity #maxandjustlikethat #psychology #attorney #therapist #law #lawyer #popculture #popularculture Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We're back for more hate-watching! This time we're talking about the return of Lisette and Joy, Carrie's foray into historical fiction, Aidan's confusing boundaries, a supernova appearance from Cheri Oteri and whatever the hell Charlotte and LTW are doing. Plus, of course, Bi Bingo!Find us on Instagram:Drop Your Buffs: @dropyourbuffspodEvan: @evanrosskatzSean: @soda.pup This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit dropyourbuffs.substack.com/subscribe

Leading The Way features the Bible teaching of pastor and author, Dr. Michael Youssef. This week, Dr. Youssef helps you grasp the TRUTH found in the words of Jesus when He declared that He is the True Vine. Join him for this week's Leading The Way . . . and learn more about Dr. Youssef at LTW.org! Be equipped with the tools you need to study the Bible in 2025! Click this link to learn more about this month's special resource: https://www.lightsource.com/donate/913/29

Carrie confronts Aiden's self imposed five year long, long distance relationship. Miranda hooks up with a nun/tourist, Charlotte attempts to redeem her dog Richard Burton after a false accusation. LTW is confronted about her documentary. Seema dumps the loser that is Ravi.We have a PATREON! click on link below to check out the extra content:PatreonPlease SUBSCRIBE to the podcast and give us a 5-star rating and review.We are on Instagram and TikTok @psychlegalpopEmail: psychlegalpoppodcast@gmail.com#andjustlikethat #max #maxandjustlikethat #andjustlikethatseason3 #andjustlikethatseason3episode1 #carriebradshaw #mirandahobbs #charlotteyork #seemapatel #lisatoddwexley #maxandjustlikethat #psychology #attorney #therapist #law #lawyer #popculture #popularculture Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What did it mean when Jesus taught his followers that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life? What does it mean for YOU? Find out when Dr. Michael Youssef continues his impactful series, The Exclusivity of Jesus on Leading The Way! Learn more about Dr. Youssef and Leading The Way at LTW.org. Be equipped with the tools you need to study the Bible in 2025! Click this link to learn more about this month's special resource: https://www.lightsource.com/donate/913/29

I recently sat down with my good friend and frequent podcast guest Simon Freeman, the co-founder and publisher of my favorite running magazine, Like The Wind, for our second quarterly conversation of 2025, which you can listen to wherever you get the morning shakeout podcast. An excerpt of this exchange can be found in Issue #45 of LtW, which comes out this week. (You can buy a copy or subscribe here.)In this episode we discuss the idea of "peak running," the seemingly ever-growing hype around events, fundamentals over fads in training, why chasing optimization if a fool's errand, and a lot more.Click here for complete show notes and sign up here to get the morning shakeout email newsletter delivered to your inbox every Tuesday.Music and editing for this episode of the morning shakeout podcast by John Summerford. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This episode is as big as Carrie's hat, because it's the first time back with our gals in a year and a half, and there's a lot to talk about: Miranda finding God (via someone else in her bed), Charlotte's falsely accused dog, Seema setting a fire like a dope and then having an absolute nothingburger of a relationship, LTW's PBS documentary and its will they/won't they relationship with Michelle Obama, and an absolutely iconic phone sex scene that has everyone in our DMs screaming, “DON'T!” Unlike Carrie's door, this ain't a false alarm: the Cidiots are back with you for another season, baby. If you don't mind, leave us a rating and a review! And if you'd like to join the party with over 100 exclusive bonus podcasts about movies and other shows, a Discord chat with fellow Cidiots and monthly zoom hangs, check us over at patreon.com/kevinandjon!

Jesus taught His followers that He is The Good Shepherd. But, what does that mean for Christians today? Find out when Dr. Michael Youssef continues his life-changing series, The Exclusivity of Jesus. Plan to join him for Leading The Way and visit LTW.org to learn more about him and Leading The Way! Be equipped with the tools you need to study the Bible in 2025! Click this link to learn more about this month's special resource: https://www.lightsource.com/donate/913/29

Are you searching for something solid to hold onto when life feels uncertain?In a world where finances fluctuate, relationships disappoint, and the future seems unpredictable, we all crave a sense of security. But what if the things we cling to can't truly keep us safe?In this episode of Candid Conversations, Jonathan Youssef explores the universal longing for security through the lens of one of Scripture's most moving stories, the journey of Ruth. Drawing wisdom from Ruth chapter 2, Jonathan invites you to consider:Where are you placing your trust?What do you run to when life feels shaky?Could there be a deeper, unshakeable refuge you're missing?You'll hear how Ruth, a foreigner with nothing left to lose, risked everything to care for her mother-in-law, and how her faith led her straight into God's providence. Discover how God's invisible hand works even in your hardest seasons, providing protection, provision, and hope in unexpected ways.Whether you feel bitter and empty like Naomi, vulnerable and courageous like Ruth, or in a position to bless like Boaz, this episode will encourage you to find your true security, not in what you can build or protect, but under the loving wing of the God who sees you.Listen now and rediscover the only place of lasting security.Resources & Links:

Dr. Michael Youssef challenges you to follow Jesus on the next Leading The Way! It's a message in his life-changing series, The Exclusivity of Jesus. Plan to join him – and you can always visit LTW.org to learn more about the worldwide ministries and impact of Leading The Way! Be equipped with the tools you need to study the Bible in 2025! Click this link to learn more about this month's special resource: https://www.lightsource.com/donate/913/29

Easter Sunday may be over, but the Resurrection story is just beginning. In this episode of Candid Conversations, Jonathan Youssef reflects on John 21 and what Jesus' post-Resurrection moments reveal about how we are meant to live today. If you've ever felt spiritually stuck, disqualified from ministry, or unsure of what to do now that the Easter celebration has faded, this message is for you.Jesus didn't leave us without direction. He gave three clear calls that still shape every believer's life today:

Dr. Michael Youssef invites you to join him for a very special Easter episode of Leading The Way. You'll be reminded of the life-changing truth that your eternal life depends on total surrender to the Resurrection of Jesus. Join him for Leading The Way and learn more about the worldwide ministry at LTW.org! Be equipped with the tools you need to study the Bible in 2025! Click this link to learn more about this month's special resource: https://www.lightsource.com/donate/913/29

Folks, we FINALLY have the release date for And Just Like That Season 3, and it's May 19. 12 episodes dropping every Thursday. RIP Nya & Che, hello to flirty ballerinos, a million rats, “reporter” Miranda, LTW's work crush, Aidan's analog emojis, Seema's speeed dates, and Carrie's elf p0rn. Welcome back, Cidiots! In the LONG offseasons of our favorite show, you can find us gabbing every week about other shows and movies by joining patreon.com/kevinandjon!

Plan to join pastor and author, Dr. Michael Youssef, when he brings his series, God's Final Call, to a close on this week's Leading The Way. Practical words from the pages of Revelation to guide you in your walk with Christ in 2025. Join him for Leading The Way and learn more about the ministry at LTW.org! Be equipped with the tools you need to study the Bible in 2025! Click this link to learn more about this month's special resource: https://www.lightsource.com/donate/913/29

You'll not want to miss this week's Leading The Way when Dr. Youssef steps out of the pulpit and into the studio to share personal and pointed words about his study of Revelation. Practical words of TRUTH from Dr. Michael Youssef on the next Leading The Way. Connect further when you visit LTW.org! Be equipped with the tools you need to study the Bible in 2025! Click this link to learn more about this month's special resource: https://www.lightsource.com/donate/913/29

I recently sat down with my good friend and frequent podcast guest Simon Freeman, the co-founder, editor, and publisher of my favorite running magazine, Like The Wind, for our first quarterly conversation of 2025, which you can listen to wherever you get the morning shakeout podcast. An excerpt of this exchange can be found in Issue #44 of LtW, which comes out this week. (You can buy a copy or subscribe here.)In this episode we discuss the importance of making time for quiet, creating space for ourselves, and slowing down in both running and in life.This episode is brought to you by: — Tracksmith, New Balance, Precision Fuel & Hydration, and Final Surge. All of these brands have missions I believe in and products that I trust and use myself on a regular basis. One of the best ways to support the morning shakeout is by patronizing the partners that help keep them going week in and week out. Check out this page some of the discount codes and special offers available exclusively to readers and listeners of the morning shakeout.Click here for complete show notes and sign up here to get the morning shakeout email newsletter delivered to your inbox every Tuesday.Music and editing for this episode of the morning shakeout podcast by John Summerford. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jonathan Youssef welcomes Dr. Richard L. Pratt Jr., president and co-founder of Third Millennium Ministries, to Candid Conversations. Dr. Pratt, an esteemed Old Testament scholar and global evangelist, shares his transformative journey from a dramatic conversion during the Jesus Movement to founding a ministry that provides seminary-level Biblical education to Christian leaders worldwide—for free.Discover Dr. Pratt's powerful epiphany that "where the Church is growing the fastest, there is the least opportunity for Christian leaders to learn the Scriptures," and how this conviction became his life's mission. They discuss the global Church's challenges, including the scarcity of sound theological training in rapidly growing Christian regions like Africa, Asia, and Latin America.Dr. Pratt reveals Thirdmill's innovative strategies to reverse this trend, leveraging digital technology, multilingual resources, and strategic partnerships to equip millions of pastors worldwide. Learn about the staggering need for 12 million new church leaders by 2050 and how Thirdmill is meeting this need through accessible, high-quality Biblical education.Key Topics Covered:Dr. Pratt's journey to faith and ministryThe global Church's rapid growth and the corresponding leadership training gapThe genesis and mission of Third Millennium MinistriesThe innovative, technology-driven approach to Biblical educationStories of transformation from around the worldLinks & Resources:Third Millennium MinistriesThirdmill InstituteThirdmill SeminaryFor questions or to connect with the Candid community, visit LTW.org/Candid. Follow us on social media:Facebook: @candidpodInstagram: @candidpodTwitter: @thecandidpodSubscribe & Share:If this episode inspired you, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with others passionate about the Great Commission and the global Church. 

Life's storms are inevitable—whether you're in one now, just coming out, or about to face one. The real question is: how do you navigate them with unshakable faith? In this episode, Jonathan Youssef shares three powerful biblical truths that will strengthen and encourage you when trials come. Drawing from the dramatic shipwreck of the Apostle Paul in Acts 27, Jonathan unpacks: How to stand firm when the waves crashWhy storms don't define youHow God's purpose remains unshaken—no matter the chaos around you.If you're feeling weary, discouraged, or need a reminder of God's sovereignty, this episode is for you. Listen now and be encouraged to know that you can anchor your faith in the only One who can calm the storm.For questions or to connect with the Candid community, visit LTW.org/Candid. Follow us on social media:Facebook: @candidpodInstagram: @candidpodTwitter: @thecandidpod  

As you move through this new year, are you merely setting Christian-sounding goals or truly seeking God daily with a heart of worship? In this special episode of Candid Conversations, Jonathan reflects on the importance of pursuing godliness above all else. Drawing from 1 Timothy 4:8, listeners will be reminded that physical and worldly disciplines have some value, but true transformation comes only through knowing Christ.  Join Jonathan as he explores how cultural obsessions with self-improvement infiltrate the church, diluting the power of the Gospel. We'll challenge the tendency to seek quick-fix sermons and practical tips over the deeper call to sit at Jesus' feet.Be inspired to continue 2025 with a renewed focus on what matters most: knowing, loving, and glorifying God.For questions or to connect with the Candid community, visit LTW.org/Candid. Follow us on social media:Facebook: @candidpodInstagram: @candidpodTwitter: @thecandidpod 

Source: https://ew.com/and-just-like-that-season-3-cast-loves-voiceover-exclusive-8754709 Black Bi Reality podcast host Nicole Weaver and Aramide Tinubu talk about And Just Like That Season 3 and Michael Patrick King's interview with Entertainment Weekly's Nick Romano. Carrie Bradshaw and Aidan Shaw's agreement needs to be explained. Miranda Hobbes will be moving to a new place. There is a new picture of Charlotte and LTW together. Carrie's narration will return! Follow Aramide Tinubu: https://www.instagram.com/awordwitharamide Follow Nicole Weaver: https://www.instagram.com/nikkibernice Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/blackbireality Follow on IG: https://www.instagram.com/blackbireality Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@blackbireality/ Photo Credit: Craig Blankenhorn / Max Branding by Jordan Scruggs https://www.jordanponders.com/

In this compelling episode of Candid Conversations, Jonathan Youssef sits down with Pastor Jamie Owens of Tremont Temple in Boston, a church rich in history yet facing the challenges of revitalizing faith in one of America's most secular cities. Jamie shares his dramatic journey—from a hungover skeptic stepping into a church for the first time to a state trooper turned pastor on a mission to lead a spiritual revival.Discover how God transformed Jamie's life, calling him from law enforcement into full-time ministry. Learn about Tremont Temple's fascinating legacy, where abolitionists once stood, Frederick Douglass and Abraham Lincoln spoke, and Charles Dickens famously read from A Christmas Carol. Hear how God works through Jamie to breathe new life into this historic church, drawing young professionals and students into a vibrant faith community amidst Boston's intellectual and cultural hub.Key topics include:Jamie's powerful conversion story: “I walked into church hungover and skeptical, but something changed forever.”From chasing criminals to chasing souls: Jamie's unexpected career shift from state trooper to pastor.The untold history of Tremont Temple and its role in abolition and revival.Reaching Boston's diverse culture and engaging the next generation with the gospel.The importance of sound theology and church governance in guarding the gospel.This episode is a must-listen for anyone passionate about church revitalization, sharing the Gospel in challenging environments, and seeing God work unexpectedly.Don't miss the upcoming special event at Tremont Temple on October 24-25, 2025, featuring Dr. Michael Youssef and Mac Powell!

Have you ever stopped to think about how the first Christmas was meticulously planned centuries before it happened? In this week's episode, Dr. Jonathan Youssef shares the divine blueprint behind the birth of Jesus—one too precise to be left to chance.In a world of uncertainty, discovering the fulfilled prophecies of the first Christmas can bring a sense of wonder and assurance. These ancient promises reveal a God who is faithful and precise, offering hope and a deeper understanding of His love and plan for us.Listen now and share this reflection with a friend who could use reassurance of the certainty of God's plan this Christmas.For questions or to connect with the Candid community, visit LTW.org/Candid. Follow us on social media:Facebook: @candidpodInstagram: @candidpodTwitter: @thecandidpod 

It's been quite a journey, but we have arrived at the penultimate episode of this insane series, and we have mixed feelings. So many storylines abandoned, or wrapped up too quickly, or too zany…Stanford is a MONK??? According to the writers, WE are the problem though because apparantly every storyline in this show has happened to somebody in the room, so I guess we have to eat crow. Otherwise MPK might have to admit fault for his own show, and a man would never do such a thing! Carrie wins a free dinner because she doesn't have enough already, so she invites everyone she's ever met regardless of how awkward it might be for her friends of over 30 years. Sam Smith makes an appearance first whatever reason, Miranda finds a new love interest because, as we know, whenever any two lesbians meet, they are instantly in love, Nya tiptoes her way to being written off the series completely, LTW unleashes on her husband for “whoops! Forgot to get that vasectomy”, and Steve decides to start a new life in clams. Also, all the parenting in this show is insane. Enjoy!!!EMAIL us with any thoughts, questions, or your most salacious sex stories at patcpod@gmail.comJOIN US EVERY WEDNESDAY AT 4PM MST FOR OUR LIVE WEEKLY ROUNDUP!!! Subscribe to our YOUTUBE channel!This month on a Holiday Month of PATREON:12/5 Broad City Ep. 4 "Under the Mistletoe"12/11 Hot Frosty12/18 Vanessa Williams' A Diva Christmas Carol12/25 A Muppet Christmas Carol Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What does it mean this Christmas season that "the hopes and fears of all the years are met in thee tonight"? Join Jonathan on Candid Conversations to reflect on this Christmas hymn and the birth of Jesus—the light of the world who fulfills our deepest hopes and fears.In this reflection, Jonathan talks about:          The promise of peace and security in Jesus        The transformative power of His grace        Why our response to Christ makes all the differenceDon't miss this heartwarming reflection on the true meaning of Christmas. For questions or to connect with the Candid community, visit LTW.org/Candid. Follow us on social media:Facebook: @candidpodInstagram: @candidpodTwitter: @thecandidpod 

I recently sat down with my good friend and frequent podcast guest Simon Freeman, the co-founder, editor, and publisher of my favorite running magazine, Like The Wind, for our final quarterly conversation of 2024, which you can listen to wherever you get the morning shakeout podcast. An excerpt of this exchange can be found in Issue #43 of LtW, which comes out this week. (You can buy a copy or subscribe here.)In this episode, we talk about the different reasons why people run—and how, and why, those reasons usually change or evolve over time. Check it out wherever you listen to podcasts.This episode is brought to you by: — Tracksmith, New Balance, Precision Fuel & Hydration, and Final Surge. All of these brands have missions I believe in and products that I trust and use myself on a regular basis. One of the best ways to support the morning shakeout is by patronizing the partners that help keep them going week in and week out. Check out this page some of the discount codes and special offers available exclusively to readers and listeners of the morning shakeout.Click here for complete show notes and sign up here to get the morning shakeout email newsletter delivered to your inbox every Tuesday.Music and editing for this episode of the morning shakeout podcast by John Summerford. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Are you wrestling with beliefs that feel more like chains than freedom? Do you wonder what it means to experience a faith rooted in grace, not fear? In today's episode of Candid Conversations, Jinger Duggar Vuolo joins us to share her powerful journey from a life of rigid rules and public expectations to one of true spiritual freedom. Raised in the spotlight of TLC's most popular show, 19 Kids and Counting, and within the strict teachings of Bill Gothard's IBLP, Jinger's story is one of courage, transformation, and rediscovering a loving, grace-filled God. In this powerful episode of Candid Conversations, the Vuolos share insights on distinguishing between faith and fear, disentangling from unhealthy beliefs, and the difference between “deconstructing” and “disentangling” faith.Listeners will hear about Jinger's experiences with the “Free Jinger” movement and how her journey led her not to abandon Christianity but to redefine her relationship with Christ. Jinger's story is a testament to the courage it takes to question deeply ingrained beliefs and find freedom within faith.This heartfelt conversation is a must-listen for anyone grappling with religious teachings, seeking a genuine relationship with God, or interested in how the Gospel differs from man-made rules. Join us for an honest look at faith, freedom, and finding grace in a world of fear.Key Topics:Jinger's reflections on growing up in the public eyeThe journey of disentangling faith from rigid teachingsUnderstanding “disentangling” vs. “deconstructing” faithInsights into Bill Gothard's teachings and their impactJeremy's perspective as a supportive partner through Jinger's journeyAdvice for those raised in restrictive religious environmentsTune in to explore how Jinger's faith journey can inspire us to seek truth, freedom, and a closer relationship with God. This episode is for anyone looking to break free from limiting beliefs and experience faith as it was meant to be.To ask Jonathan a question or connect with the Candid community, visit https://LTW.org/CandidFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/candidpodInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/candidpodTwitter: https://twitter.com/thecandidpod 

Simon Freeman from Like the Wind, one of the original (and best) running media publications joins the podcast to talk about the early days of LtW and how he balanced it with the rest of his life and responsibilities (including being CEO and exiting his other company) over the past ten years.   Show Notes: Like the Wind: https://www.likethewindmagazine.com/ Rouleur Magazine: https://www.rouleur.cc/ The Ride Journal: http://theridejournal.com/ Freestak: https://www.freestak.com/ TRE: https://www.therunningevent.com/ LtW Substack: https://likethewindmag.substack.com/ BPC:  Simon: Freetrail (http://www.freetrail.com) and Super Rider (http://superrider.tv) Aaron: Rapha Films "On The Up" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTEP1kfAoGc   Dylan: Vuori's latest fundraising round: https://insider.fitt.co/vuori-raises-825m-hits-5-5b-valuation/   Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Are you facing the difficult journey of caring for an aging parent and wondering what it means to honor them in this season of life? As parents age and face cognitive or physical decline, families are often left with more questions than answers, including how to handle challenging emotions, manage difficult decisions, and stay true to their wishes and Christian faith. In this episode of Candid Conversations, Jonathan Youssef speaks with Dr. Bill Davis on the complexities of honoring aging parents through a biblical lens, especially as they face cognitive and physical decline. Dr. Davis shares insights from his research and ministry experience, exploring practical ways to navigate the emotional, financial, and spiritual challenges of caring for dependent parents. From understanding the fifth commandment to engaging in complex but vital conversations, this discussion provides guidance and encouragement for families walking this journey.More Episodes featuring Dr. Bill Davis on Candid Conversations:How Should We Care for Our Aging Loved Ones (Part 1): Dr. Bill DavisHow Should We Care for Our Aging Loved Ones (Part 2): Dr. Bill DavisRoe v. Wade Conversations with Dr. Bill DavisBuilding Bridges in a Cancel Culture: Dr. Bill DavisLet's Talk About Suicide: Dr. Bill DavisFor questions or to connect with the Candid community, visit LTW.org/Candid. Follow us on social media:Facebook: @candidpodInstagram: @candidpodTwitter: @thecandidpod

On this special election day episode of Candid Conversations, Jonathan addresses the balance between political engagement and spiritual grounding. As the nation watches election results roll in, Jonathan reflects on the hope, fear, and faith that often accompany these moments.He emphasizes that while participation is essential, our ultimate peace comes from trusting God's sovereignty, not political leaders. Drawing from Philippians 4, we are reminded to shift our focus from fear to faith, remembering that our hopes are anchored in  the eternal promises of Christ.Join us as we navigate this election day with a reminder that our true hope lies in the Lord Jesus Christ.To ask Jonathan a question or connect with the Candid community, visit https://LTW.org/CandidFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/candidpodInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/candidpodTwitter: https://twitter.com/thecandidpod

In today's fast-paced media landscape, truth and integrity remain essential, especially for journalists who are Christians. But with today's divisive narratives, how can believers step into mainstream media with a commitment to honesty and faith?Join Jonathan Youssef on Candid Conversations as he welcomes award-winning journalist and news anchor Jane Robelot. With a distinguished career that has included co-anchoring CBS's morning show and hosting several of Leading The Way's media programs, Jane offers a unique perspective on living out her Christian faith in a challenging industry.In this timely conversation, Jane shares her powerful testimony, emphasizing the importance of unbiased journalism and encouraging young Christians to be salt and light—even within mainstream media.For questions or to connect with the Candid community, visit LTW.org/Candid.Follow us on social media:Facebook: @candidpodInstagram: @candidpodTwitter: @thecandidpod

This is the EPISODE that never ends…oh it goes on and on my friend….No, really, an actual episode of “Lambchop's Play-Along” would have had a better editing team behind its production. Although the plot lines in this episode are all pretty strong on their own, the team of geniuses over at AJLT decides to cram them all into a single one hour episode; which in turn ends up feeling like we are sitting through “The Godfather” trilogy. Carrie has trouble getting through chapter 3 of her audiobook recording, Charlotte and LTW really dance around the line of what is an appropriate storyline about sexy teens, Seema has her burkin stolen (which could be a nod to Samantha but we think the writers legit didn't connect those dots) and Miranda completely shuts down the entire production of Che's pilot, and for once, we are team Che. Enjoy!!! Check us out on Youtube! Like and subscribe, and join our LIVE Weekly Roundups!EMAIL us with any thoughts, questions, or your most salacious sex stories at patcpod@gmail.comThis month on Patreon:The Golden Girls S1 E11 "Stan's Return"Broad City S2 E1 "In Heat"Girls S2 E1 "It's About Time"Pillow Talk Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I recently sat down with my good friend and frequent podcast guest Simon Freeman, the co-founder, editor, and publisher of my favorite running magazine, Like The Wind, for our third quarterly conversation of 2024, which you can listen to wherever you get the morning shakeout podcast. An excerpt of this exchange can be found in Issue #42 of LtW, which comes out this week. (You can buy a copy or subscribe here.)In this episode, which was recorded in August while the men's 1500m final at the Paris Olympics was taking place—if nothing else, listen in for our live reactions during that race—we spoke about pressure: what it is, where it comes from, and how we navigate it in running, work, and other aspects of our life. It was an insightful one, and we hope you feel the same way, so tune in wherever you listen to podcasts.This episode is brought to you by: — Tracksmith, New Balance, Precision Fuel & Hydration, and Final Surge. All of these brands have missions I believe in and products that I trust and use myself on a regular basis. One of the best ways to support the morning shakeout is by patronizing the partners that help keep them going week in and week out. Check out this page some of the discount codes and special offers available exclusively to readers and listeners of the morning shakeout.Click here for complete show notes and sign up here to get the morning shakeout email newsletter delivered to your inbox every Tuesday.Music and editing for this episode of the morning shakeout podcast by John Summerford. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this thought-provoking episode of Candid Conversations, Dr. Jonathan Youssef explores the pervasive cultural narrative that prioritizes feelings, personal pleasure, and subjective truths above all else. Our malls display it, our shows advise it, our commercials glorify it, and our universities disseminate it. Every aspect of our culture proclaims that our feelings matter most in life. But how should Christians respond to this secular storm that seeks to silence the message of the Gospel? Join Jonathan as he explores the growing pressures on Christianity in the Western world and reminds listeners of the global spread of the Christian faith that defies cultural trends.Listener Feedback:We would love to hear from you! How do you navigate living out your faith in today's culture? Please share your thoughts and stories with us at LTW.org/Candid.Subscribe & Follow:Don't miss future episodes! Subscribe to Candid Conversation on your favorite podcast platform and follow us on social media at:Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/candidpodInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/candidpodTwitter: https://twitter.com/thecandidpod

She faced false accusations, family betrayal, and deep loss, forcing her to abandon her entire life. Despite all this, she chose forgiveness and, through God's grace, experienced profound redemption in her darkest moments.Jonathan's guest today had countless reasons to withhold forgiveness and remain bound by the trauma of severe abuse. Yet, she found that true freedom and forgiveness are inseparable.In this episode, Jonathan Youssef interviews a remarkable woman who will remain anonymous to protect her identity. She bravely recounts her escape from a life of abuse and oppression in a third-world country to finding freedom in America. Through Christ, she discovered forgiveness for herself and others and God's plan for her future.Don't miss this powerful testimony of God's relentless pursuit and redemptive power available to all believers in Christ!If you have a question for Jonathan or are looking for more Candid episodes, visit https://LTW.org/CandidFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/candidpodInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/candidpod

This week's engaging episode features a conversation with Os Guinness, a profound advocate for faith, freedom, truth, reason, and civility. Os is an esteemed author and social critic and the great-great-great-grandson of Arthur Guinness, the famous Dublin brewer. With a bibliography exceeding 30 books, he provides insightful perspectives on our cultural, political, and social environments.Born in China during World War II to medical missionary parents, Os experienced the height of the Chinese revolution in 1949 and was expelled along with many foreigners in 1951. He later earned his undergraduate degree at the University of London and completed his D.Phil in the social sciences from Oriel College, Oxford. He currently resides in the United States.In this episode, Jonathan and Os delve into Scripture and discuss Os' latest book, The Magna Carta of Humanity. They explore global perspectives, including Os' views on America's polarization crisis, the recent changes in the UK with the new King, and the evolving role of the “Defender of the Faith” in the monarchy. Os also shares fascinating stories about his remarkable family history, from Christian brewers to pastors to his journey as a Christian author.To ask Jonathan a question or connect with the Candid community, visit https://LTW.org/CandidFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/candidpodInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/candidpodTwitter: https://twitter.com/thecandidpodTRANSCRIPT:The following is a transcript of Episode 256: Revolutionary Faith and the Future of Freedom: Os Guinness (Reprise) for Candid Conversations with Jonathan Youssef.[00:01] JONATHAN: Today it is my special privilege to have Os Guinness on the program with us. Os is an author and social critic. He's written untold amounts of books. He's just like Dad, and it seems you have a new book out every six months or so, Os. Is that sort of the pattern, you get two out a year?[00:24] Os Guinness: Well, usually one a year, but COVID gave me the chance to write a lot more.[00:28] JONATHAN: Oh, well, I love it. Many of our listeners will, of course, be familiar with you, but there may be a few out there who don't. We have somewhat of an international audience, and I know that you have a very international background, having been born in China and raised in China and educated in England. There's a couple of things. I'm sure people are seeing the name Guinness and wondering is there a connection with the brewery? And of course, there is. But I wonder if you'd tell us a little bit of your family history and then we'll get to your own personal story.[01:00] Os Guinness: Well, you're right. I'm descended from Arthur Guinness, the brewer. My ancestor was his youngest son. He was an evangelical. He came to Christ, to faith, under the preaching of John Wesley in the revival that took place in the late 1730s, early 1740s. So he called himself born again back in those days and founded Ireland's first Sunday school, which of course, in this days was a rather radical proposition, teaching people who couldn't go to ordinary schools. And from the very beginning, care for the poor, for the workers and things like that were built into the brewery and the whole family status in Dublin. So that was the ancestor, and I'm descended from a branch of the family that's kept the faith ever since. My great-grandfather, Arthur's grandson, at the age of 23, was the leading preacher in the Irish revival of 1859. And we have newspaper accounts of crowds of 25,000, 30,000, and of course no microphone. He'd climb onto the back of a carriage and preach and the Spirit would fall. Ireland was not divided in those days, but in that part of the country, in the year after the revival, there was literally only one recorded crime.[02:33] JONATHAN: Unbelievable.[02:34] Os Guinness: This shows you how profound revival can be.[02:37] JONATHAN: Isn't it?[02:39] Os Guinness: His son, my grandfather, was one of the first Western doctors to go to China. He treated the Empress Dowager, the last Emperor, and my parents were born in China so I was born in China. So I'm part of the family that's kept faith ever since the first Arthur.[03:00] JONATHAN: You had mention that this is a branch of the family. Is there a branch of the family that's gone a different trajectory?[03:08] Os Guinness: Well, for a long time the brewing family was strongly Christian, but then eventually, sadly, wealth probably undermined part of the faith. But as I said, my family has kept it. They often say there are brewing Guinnesses, banking Guinnesses, and then they call them the Guinnesses for God or the poor Guinnesses.[03:36] JONATHAN: An amazing family lineage, and you're thinking of just the covenantal family through that line. And so you've got a book that came out this year, The Great Quest: Invitation to the Examined Life and a Sure Path to Meaning. And I know in the book you share a little bit of your own search for meaning and finding, because we all know that Christianity is really the only faith you cannot be born into in terms of you can be born into a covenant home and be taught the lessons of Christ and the church, but it's really a faith that has to become your own. It's not the faith that is transferred to the child. So tell us a little bit about your own story and your own coming to faith in Christ.[04:31] Os Guinness: Well, I was born in China, as I said, and my first 10 years were pretty rough with war, famine, revolution, all sorts of things. And I was there for two years under Mao's reign of terror, and in '51, two years after the revolution, my parents were allowed to send me home to England and they were under house arrest for another two years. So I had most of my teenage years apart from my parents, and my own coming to faith was really a kind of partly the witness of a friend at school but partly an intellectual search. I was reading on the one hand atheists like Nietzsche and Sartre, and my own hero, Albert Camus. And on the other hand, Christians like Blaise Pascal and G. K. Chesterton, and of course, C. S. Lewis. And at the end of that time, I was thoroughly convinced the Christian faith was true. And so I became a Christian before I went to university in London, and I'm glad I did because the 60s was a crazy decade—drugs, sex, rock and roll, the counterculture. Everything had to be thought back to square one. You really needed to believe what you believed and why you believed what you believed, or the whole onslaught was against, which is a bracing decade to come to faith.[05:57] JONATHAN: It really is. I wonder if you could walk me through that a little bit. I've read some of Camus and Sartre, and I mean, they're just such polar opposites about humanity and God. What were some of the things that helped you navigate through that terrain?[06:17] Os Guinness: Well, I personally never liked Sartre. He was a dull fish. And even later, when I went to L'Abri with Francis Schaeffer, we met people who studied under Sartre and people who had known Camus. Camus was warm, passionate. There are stories, we don't know whether they're true or not or just a rumor, that he was actually baptized just before he died in a car crash in January 1960. I don't know if that's true or not, or if that's a kind of death-bed conversion, but certainly his philosophy is profoundly human, and that's what I loved about so much of it. But at the end of the day, not adequate. You know his famous Myth of Sisyphus. He rolls the stone up the hill and it rolls down again. Rolls up, it rolls down again, and so on. A gigantic defiance against the absurdity of the universe, but with no real answers. And of course, that's what we have in the gospel.[07:19] JONATHAN: That's right, and it's sort of the meaninglessness of life, and I know a lot of high school, college students even seminary students have been deeply affected by some of his writing and have certainly felt, I think, what you're touching into there, which is that deeply personal—there's a lot of reflection in there that I think resounds with people. But as you said, it leaves you with nothing at the end of the day.So you've written quite a number of books across quite a range of topics. What is it that sort of stokes your fire, that kind of drives you? I know the Bible uses passion in a very negative, sinful sense, but it's a word we use a lot today. What is the passion that's driving you in your writings and your speaking?[08:12] Os Guinness: Well, you can never reduce it easily, but two things above all. One, making sense of the gospel for our crazy modern world. On the other hand, trying to understand the world so that responsible people can live in the world knowing where we are. Because in terms of the second, I think one of the things in the Scriptures as a whole which is much missing in the American church today is the biblical view of time. You take the idea of the signs of the times, David's men or our Lord's rebuked His generation. they could read the weather but they missed the signs of the times. So you get that incredible notion of Saint Paul talking about King David. He served God's purpose in his generation. That's an incredible idea that you so understand your generation that in some small, inadequate way we're each serving God's purpose of salt and light and so on in our generation.But many Americans, and many people around the whole world, they don't have that sense of time that you see in Scripture. I'm not quite sure why; maybe growing up in revolutionary China I've always had an incredible sense of time.[09:36] JONATHAN: You know, I think that's encouraging to hear. In our society, we get so fixated and caught up on the issues but there's almost this moment of needing to pull back and observe things from a higher perspective. And I think you do such a fantastic job of that.Let's walk through some of your more recent books, and then maybe get a peek under the curtain of what's coming, because I think you've got a couple of books that are on their way out. The Magna Carta of Humanity. This idea of Sinai and French Revolution as it sort of relates to the American Revolution. Tell us a little bit about the impetus for this and the thought process towards that.[10:25] Os Guinness: Well, the American crisis at its deepest is the great polarization today. But many people, I think, don't go down to the why. They blame it on the social media, or our former president and his tweets, or the coastals against the heartlanders and so on. But I think the deepest things are those who understand America and freedom from the perspective of the American Revolution, which was largely, sadly not completely, Christian, because it went back to the Jewish Torah, and those who understand America from the perspective of ideas coming down from the French Revolution—postmodernism, radical multiculturalism, the cancel culture, critical theory, all these things, the sexual revolution. They come from the ideas descended from Paris, not from anything to do with the Bible, and we've got to understand this.Now, the more positive way of looking at that, many Americans have no idea how the American Revolution came from the Scriptures, how notions like covenant became consitution; the consent of the governed or the separation of powers, going down the line, you have a rich, deep understanding in the Torah, the first five books of the Bible. and we've got to understand if we know how to champion these things today.But it's not just a matter of nostalgia or defending the past. I personally am passionately convinced this is the secret to the human future. What are the deepest views of human dignity, or of words, or of truth, or of freedom, or of justice, peace and so on? They are in the Bible. And we've got to explore them. So the idea from a gentleman not too far from you, Jonathan, who said we've got to unhitch our faith from the Old Testament, that's absolute disaster. A dear guy, but dead wrong. You've got to explore the Old Testament as never before, and then, of course, we can understand why the new is so wonderful.[12:46] JONATHAN: You know, Os, just going down that track a little bit, that's right; you can't have the New Testament without the Old Testament. The prophecies of Christ, the fulfillment, it all falls apart, the whole argumentation, everything almost becomes meaningless at that point. And I know the argument is that it's about the event of the crucifixion and the resurrection, but you don't have those apart from Genesis 3, of course, Genesis 1, all the way through till the end of Malachi. You can't separate these two testamental periods. It's ludicrous, and it creates so much damage, as you've said. [13:36] Os Guinness: Well you know, take some of the myths that are around today. They're very common even in evangelical circles. The Old Testament is about law; the New Testament is about love. [13:48] JONATHAN: Right.[13:49] Os Guinness: That's not right. That's a slander on the Jews. Read the beginning of Deuteronomy. The Jews, the nation, they are called to love the Lord with all their heart, soul and so on. Why did the Lord choose them? Because He loved them and set His affection on them. And you can see in Deuteronomy there's a link between liberty and loyalty and love. So right through the Scriptures, those who abandon the truth, apostasy, that's equivalent to adultery. Why? To love the Lord is to be loyal to the Lord and faithful to the Lord and so on. And we've got to see there's a tremendous amount about love, loyalty connected with liberty.I mean, a couple of weeks ago, a couple of professors writing in the New York Times said the Constitution is broken and it shouldn't be reclaimed. We need to move on, scrap it and rebuild our democracy. Now the trouble is constitutions became a matter of lawyers and law courts, the rule of law only in the Supreme Court. No, it comes from covenant. Covenant is all about freely chosen consent, a morally binding pledge. So the heart of freedom is the freedom of the heart, and we've got to get back—this is all there in the Old Testament. Did the Jews fail? Of course. That's why our Lord. but equally the church is failing today. So we've got so much to learn from the best and the worst of the experience of the Jews in the Old Testament. But to ignore the Old is absolute folly.[15:35] JONATHAN: Well, and thinking about the American Revolution and the impact of men, as you've already cited with your own family history, of Wesley and the preaching of George Whitefield in the Americas, which would have had a profound effect on the American psyche, and I think would have contributed a great deal to a lot of the writing of law and constitutional ideology.[16:02] Os Guinness: Well, the revival had a huge impact on all who created the Revolution. But some of the ideas go back, I think, to the Reformation. Not so much to Luther at this point, but to Calvin and Swingly. In Scotland, John Knox and in England Oliver Cromwell. You know, that whole notion of covenant. I mean, Cromwell said ... A lot of weird ideas came up in the 17th Century, but the 17th Century is called the Biblical Century. Why? Because through the Reformation they discovered, rediscovered, what was called the Hebrew republic—in other words, the constitution the Lord gave to the founding of His own people.So even someone like Thomas Hobbes, who was an atheist, they are discussing the Hebrew republic—in other words, Exodus and Deuteronomy. It had a tremendous impact on the rise of modern notions of freedom, and we've got to understand that.So the Mayflower Compact is a covenant. John Winthrop on the Arbella is talking about covenant. When John Adams writes the first constitution, written one, in this country, which is the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, he calls it a covenant. And the American Constitution is essentially a national somewhat secularized form of covenant. And we who are heirs of that as followers of Jesus, we've got to re-explore it and realize its richness today.[17:44] JONATHAN: Turn on the news today and it feels like we're quite a distance from that. Even thinking about using a word like justice, you know, all this now it seems, to your point, this ideology from the French Revolution has really come to the forefront, certainly in the 60s, but there seems to be a new revival of this. What's contributing to that today in America?[18:17] Os Guinness: Well, James Billington, the former librarian of Congress, and others, have looked at the French Revolution, and remember only lasted 10 years in France, then came dictator Napoleon. But it was like a gigantic volcanic explosion, and out of it came their main lava flows. The first one we often ignore, which is called revolutionary nationalism, in 19th-century France and so on. You can ignore that mostly except it's very important behind the Chinese today.But the second one is the one people are aware of. Revolutionary socialism, or in one word, communism. The Russian Revolution, the Chinese Revolution. We're actually experiencing the impact of the third lava flow, revolutionary liberationism, which is not classical Marxism, communism, but cultural Marxism or neo Marxism. And that goes back to a gentleman called Antonio Gramsci in the 1920s. Now you mentioned the 60s. it became very important in the 60s because Gramsci's ideas were picked up by the Frankfurt School in the 30s, 40s, 50s, and the leading thinker in America in the 60s was Herbert Marcuso, who in many ways is the godfather of the new left in the 60s. I first came here in '68 as a tourist, six weeks. One hundred cities were burning, far worse than 1920, because of the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr. and Senator Kennedy. But here's the point: The radicals knew that for all the radicalism in the streets, anti-Vietnam protests and so on, they wouldn't win in the streets, so they had to do what they called, copying Mao Zedong, a long march through the institutions—in other words, not the streets. Go slowly, gradually, win the colleges and universities. Win the press and media. Win what they call the culture industry—Hollywood, entertainment. And then sweep around and win the whole culture.Now here we are, more than 50 years later, they have done it. Now, in the early days, I'm a European still, I'm not American, people would never have believed that the radical left would influence what were called the fortresses of American conservatism—business, finance, the military—but all of those in the form of woke-ism have been profoundly affected. So America's at an extraordinary point in terms of the radical left being more power even than the French Revolution.[21:16] JONATHAN: Okay, so in thinking through that lines of reasoning, the people who are caught up in that today, the radicalism, is this just indoctrination? I guess what my point is, is it all intentional? Is it like Marcuso's intentionality of going through the halls of academia? Or rather is it that they've just been raised to think that this is just the way ... that it's the most opportune way to get your ideology out there?[21:56] Os Guinness: No, it's thoroughly intention. But of course, always there's a creative minority who eventually win over the majority who are hardly aware of it. You mentioned justice. I was on calls for a California pastor last year and I said to them, “You brothers have drunk the Kool-Aid.” They didn't realize how much of their understanding of justice owed everything to the radical left and nothing to the Hebrew prophets. So you know how the left operate. It analyzes discourage. How do ordinary people speak? And so you look for the majority/minority, the oppressors/the victims. When you've found the victim, which is a group, not an individual, you weaponize them and set up a constant conflict of powers in order to subvert the status quo.But as the Romans point out, if you only have power, no truth—and remember in the postmodern world God is dead for them, truth is completely dead following Nietzsche, so all that's left is power. And the only possible outcome, if you think it through logically (which they don't) is what the Romans call the peace of despotism—in other words, you have a power so unrivaled since you've put down every other power, you have peace. But it's authoritarian. That's where we're going increasingly today. You take the high-tech media and so on, a very dangerous moment for freedom of conscience, for freedom of speech, and for freedom of assembly. America is really fighting for its life. But sadly it's not. Most people are asleep.[23:43] JONATHAN: Well, and that's right. That's sort of the hinge point, isn't it? So let's talk just briefly about the education system. We're thinking sort of elementary, middle school, high school education system. So here in Atlanta there are sort of options that are presented to parents, right? There's the public school system; there's the private, often Christian, private school system; and then there's a home school option. And parents are all trying to navigate this. Now I'm sure you've heard arguments that you can send your kids to the public school because if Christians abandon the public school, then where is the witness, where es the influence with the greater population who are just asleep or whatever it is? If you send them out to the private school, your children will be protected, but how much exposure are they getting to thoughts and philosophies that if you sort of rein them in—And I guess this is really more to the home school spectrum, which is almost like an over-protection. These kids go to university and it's the first exposure they've had to some of these thoughts, and professors are going out of their way to convince these students that the way that they were raised was very fallen, broken; their parents were brainwashing them, etc. Just thinking about some of those differing options and thought process, how do you think through that as a thinker, as a social critic, as a Christian? How do you weigh into that?[25:17] Os Guinness: Well, you try and sort of isolate some of the different factors. So you've been talking rightly about the personal and the family concerns, which are fundamental absolutely. And I think that very much varies with the child. But with all of the words, home schooling, whatever, you want to keep them ahead of the game so they know what's coming. Francis Schaeffer often used to stress that. So people go to the secular university. Keep them ahead of the game so that they know what's coming and they know some preliminary apologetics so they know how to make a good stand and be faithful without being washed away. You've also—in other words, what you said is fundamental, I agree with that, but there's also a national dimension. So the public schools, and I'm not arguing that everyone has to go to them, but they were very, very important because they were the center of passing on the unum of the e pluribus unum, out of man, one. Put it this way. As the Jews put it, if any project lasts longer than a single generation, you need families, you need schools, you need history. It doesn't get passed on.So when Moses talked about the night before Passover, he never mentioned freedom, he never mentioned the Promised Land of milk and honey. He told them how to tell their story to children so that freedom could last. Now, the public schools used to do that, so you have people from Ireland or Italy or China or Mexico, it didn't matter because the public schools gave them civic education, the unum. That was thrown out at the end of the 60s. In came Howard Zinn and his alternative views, and more recently the 1619 project. So the public school, as a way of americanizing and integrating, collapsed. And that's a disaster for the republic.Now, take the added one that President Biden has added, immigration. As scholars put it, it's still relatively easy to become an American: get your papers, your ID and so on. It's almost impossible now to know what it is to be American, and particularly you say the 4 million who have come in in the Biden years, they're not going to be inducted into American citizenship, so the notion of citizenship collapses through the public schools and through an open border. It's just a folly beyond any words. It is historic, unprecedented folly, an absolute disaster.Of course, we've got to say, back to your original question, the same is true not only of freedom but of faith. So parents handing on, transmitting to their kids, very, very important.I would add one more thing, Jonathan. It's very much different children. My own son, whom I adore, is a little bit of a contrarian. If he'd gone to a Christian college, he might have become a rebel in some of the poorer things of some of them. He went to a big, public university, University of Virginia, and it cemented and deepened his faith because he stood against the tide and he came out with a much stronger faith than when he went in.[28:59] JONATHAN: I love that. I think you're right on with that. And I think it's good for people to hear and know the history and have awareness of this. Now I want to make a very subtle and gentle shift, and if you don't want to talk about it, that's fine. But you are a British citizen. Am I correct on that?[29:18] Os Guinness: I am.[29:21] JONATHAN: Queen Elizabeth has passed and now it's King Charles III and there's much talk about comments he's made in the past in terms of the Defender of the Faith. I read a quote from Ian Bradley, who is a professor at the University of Saint Andrews, he says, “Charles's faith is more spiritual and intellectual. He's more of a spiritual seeker.”Is this sort of a microcosm of what's happening in the UK, this sort of shift from the queen, who very much had a very Christo-centric faith, to Charles and sort of emphasis on global warming and different issues of the day? Is this sort of a microcosm of what we're seeing?[30:22] Os Guinness: Well, the queen had a faith that was very real and very deep, and she was enormously helped by people like Billy Graham…[30:29] JONATHAN: John Stott.[30:30] Os Guinness: --John Stott and so on. So her faith was very, very genuine. His? He's probably got more of an appreciation for the Christian faith than many European leaders today. So the Christian faith made Western civilization, and yet most of the intelligentsia in Europe have abandoned the faith that made it. So Prince Charles, as you say, a rather New Age spirituality, and he's extraordinarily open to Islam through money from Saudi Arabia. I don't have the highest hopes for him, although I must say the challenge of being king will remind him of the best of his mother. Even when the archbishop said in the sermon that he wanted people to know that Prince Charles had a Christian faith, I felt it was a glimmer of the fact he realizes, you know, his mother's position was wonderful, so it's very much open.Now I am an Anglican, as you are. Back in 1937, the greatest of all the Catholic historians on Western civilization predicted—this is 1937, almost a century ago—that the day would come in some future coronation when people would raise the questions, “Was it all a gigantic bluff? Because the power of the monarchy, and more importantly, the credibility of the faith, had both undermined themselves to such an extent it didn't mean anything.” I think we're incredibly close to that with King Charles. I also think, sadly, that the Archbishop of Canterbury, who preached wonderfully well yesterday, has done a good job in the celebrations and so on, the pageantry, but does a rotten job in leading the church as the church. And so the Church of England is in deep trouble in terms of its abandoning orthodoxy. It's a very critical moment. Will Charles go deeper or revert to the way he's been for the last few decades? I don't know. I'm watching.[33:02] JONATHAN: And then sort of just transitioning from there to what you see as faith in the United States. I think you have a new book coming out, Zero Hour America: History's Ultimatum Over Freedom and the Answer We Must Give. Let's bridge that gap between trajectory in the UK and now in the United States. What similarities and differences are you seeing?[33:26] Os Guinness: Well, in Europe the great rival to the Christian faith was in the 18th century, the Enlightenment. And it's almost completely swept the intelligentsia of Europe. Until recently, America was not fully going that way, and in the last decade or so it has. The rise of the religious nones, etc. etc. So in most areas that are intellectual, America too has abandoned the faith that made it. Of course, part of the American tragedy is the intelligentsia have not only abandoned the faith that made America; they've abandoned the Revolution that made America. So you have a double crisis here.Now, I am, like you, a follower of Jesus. I'm absolutely undaunted. The Christian faith, if it's true, would be true if no one believed it. So the lies of the nones or whatever just means a lot of people didn't realize in one sense that they're just spineless. If it's true, it's not a matter of popularity or polls. I like the old saying, “Damn the polls and think for yourself.” And Americans are far too other-directed. The polls are often badly formulated in terms of their questions. The question is, is the faith true and what are the answers it gives us to lead our lives well? And I have no question it's not only good news, it is the best news ever in terms of where humanity is today. So this is an extraordinary moment to be a follower of Jesus. We have the guardianship and the championship of the greatest news ever.[35:14] JONATHAN: Amen. Well, and let's make one final link there, which is we talked a lot about Western countries, the UK, the US, but you were born and spent quite a lot of time in China. Let's think about not necessarily specifically China, but non-Western countries. You travel quite frequently. What are you seeing in those non-Western countries that perhaps is giving you hope or positivity?[35:47] Os Guinness: God promised to Abraham in him all the families of the Earth will be blessed. DNA is in the heart of the Scriptures, and of course our Lord's Great Commission. But as we look around the world today, thank God Christian faith is the most populace faith on the Earth. So the one place it's not doing well is the highly modernized West. It is flourishing in sub-Sahara Africa. Or in Asia, where I happen to be born, in China—nothing to do with me—was the most rapid growth, exponential growth, of the church in 2,000 years. So I have no fear for the faith at all. And of course we believe it's true.But the question, Will the West return to the faith that made it? I hope that our sisters and brothers in the global south will help us come back just as we took the faith to them. And I know many African brothers and sisters and many Korean brothers and sisters, Chinese too, that's their passion. And we must welcome it. I know so many Koreans, what incredible people of prayer. Up at 5:00, thousands of them praying together. When I was a boy in England, prayer meetings were strong in churches. They're not strong in most American churches today. We've become highly secularized, so we've got a huge amount to learn from the Scriptures, of course, above all, but from our brothers and sisters in the rest of the world reminding us of what we used to believe and we've lost.[37:33] JONATHAN: What a great reminder. Well, Os Guinness, I know you've got a busy schedule and we're so grateful that you've taken the time to be on Candid Conversations. We've talked about quite a lot. We're going to put a link to your website in our show notes, and all fantastic books that you've put out and new ones coming out, and we look forward to hopefully having you on again in the future.[38:00] Os Guinness: Well, thank you. Real privilege to be on with you.[38:02] JONATHAN: God bless you. Thank you.

Are you committed to Christ but searching for guidance? In this new reflection, Jonathan Youssef explores the gripping Biblical story of Jacob—a tale of struggle, transformation, and divine engagement. Jonathan connects his own experiences with Jacob's journey, offering insights into the challenges of perseverance, the power of repentance, and the profound ways God works in our lives. Listen and deepen your understanding of spiritual growth and how our trials can lead to profound blessings. This is a must-listen for anyone seeking inspiration and guidance from God. To ask Jonathan a question or connect with the Candid community, visit https://LTW.org/CandidFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/candidpodInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/candidpodTwitter: https://twitter.com/thecandidpodTRANSCRIPT:This transcript recounts Candid Conversations with Jonathan Youssef Episode 255:  Wrestling with God: Jonathan YoussefIn seventh grade, I joined my middle school wrestling program. For two weeks, we ran and did all kinds of exercises, and then we would wrestle each other for the rest of the time we were there. And I did not like it. I lost to a guy who was younger than me. I lost every day. I was terrible. And I was tired of losing, and I lacked perseverance. There is little more humiliating than being wedged under the fat arm of a sweaty teenage boy, and I thought, This is as low as it gets.Well, our reflection today is about wrestling and persevering. I've always been intrigued by the biblical story because it has so many layers. It's multifaceted and multidimensional. And it's a little bit dangerous, meaning that there is potential to miss the main point of what the text is saying and to misunderstand or misrepresent it. Over the years, I've reread it, read commentaries, listened to talks, and consumed all I can to try to understand it better. I want to know what is taking place at this really important moment in salvific history. We have this man, Jacob. He has been at odds with his brother since birth. Even in the womb, he and Esau are wrestling with each other. He is at odds with his father over who is the favored son. He is at odds with who should be blessed. He's at odds over who had the birthright in the family. He's used trickery and deception to achieve his purposes. He's at odds with his Uncle Laban, a master trickster himself. But in Genesis, we begin to see the undoing of this character, Jacob. He's being undone, and he's being changed and transformed through these middle chapters of this book. He's served his crooked uncle/father-in-law for twenty-some-odd years, and in many ways, he's echoing the prodigal son here. Having come to himself, he's leaving Laban here, and he's coming home, you might say, to the homeland of his father, to his older brother, and although God has begun to work in him, although he is a new man, as it were, spiritually, it becomes clear that God is not finished with Jacob yet.And so this chapter unfolds with three dramatic pictures. First, in verses 1 through 21, we have the picture of Jacob returning. God has been working in his life, as we just noted. God has also been working in the lives of Jacob's two wives, Leah and Rachel, and now Jacob has sent word to his brother, Esau, the brother who swore that he would one day kill his little brother in a very Cain and Abel-type fashion. So Jacob sends the word, “Hey! I'm coming home.” He's really only able to do this because the Lord has told him, “The day will come that I'm going to bring you back to this land. And I am promising that I will do you good, that I will prosper you, and that I will be with you.”If you remember the account of Jacob's ladder, where Jacob falls asleep, and he envisions this ladder coming down from heaven, and the angels ascend and descend upon the ladder, the Lord tells him, “I will be with you. I will bring you back to this land. I will give it to you and your offspring. And the whole earth will be blessed through you and your seed.” And, of course, it reminds us of the very same promise given to Abraham. He promises to keep and return him to that land, and now that day has come. In verses 1 and 2, we read that the angels come and meet Jacob. It's confirmation that the Lord is with him. He names the area Mahanaim, meaning “two camps.” Now, perhaps he's referring to the fact that it's his camp and the Lord's camp; the Lord's camp will be his shield and protection. Because he's going to need it. And the report comes back, “Hey, Esau's coming to see you. He's got four hundred guys with him. It's going to be great, right?”Okay, either Esau is rolling out the red carpet for his little brother, or Esau has come for his vengeance, and he has not forgotten 20 years of anger and hostility. Verse 7 says, “Then Jacob was greatly afraid and distressed.”Now, when it comes to our fears and the Lord, do we find that the way that the Lord enables us through our fears is by removing the fear, removing the obstacles? Or do we find that He gives us greater reasons not to fear than to fear? Here is Jacob, and he's stuck in a difficult situation. He cannot return to his Uncle Laban; he's terrified to go forward to his brother, Esau, and the unknown. What's he going to do?Well, he's a different man now. He probably would have used skill and trickery to weasel out of this in his past life. He would have found a crafty way to save himself, even at the cost of his own family. But he's a different man now, and Jacob perseveres despite his hesitancy, fear, and distress—unlike my illustrious wrestling career. And then we see Jacob do something we've never seen him do in Scripture. He gets on his knees, and he pleads with God. He's praying for God's help in his dreadfully fearful situation. And Jacob prays the longest prayer in the book of Genesis. And the prayer shows us that he now belongs to the Lord. It's evidence that the Lord is working in your heart, is it not, when you begin to call on His name, and it's not just, “Lord, I'm in a mess. Help me out of this,” but rather, it's “God, you promised to be with me. You promised to protect me. And so I'm coming to you, claiming on those promises.”And that's what Jacob does, “Lord, you said that you would do good to me. Fulfill your promise to me.” You notice it's not a panicked prayer, “God, get me out of this bind, and I'll build a hundred churches for you.”No. Instead, you have a man at the end of his resources, holding onto God's promises to bless him, and then he patiently sits, trusting that the Lord will act. Then, we see another change in Jacob: a repentant heart. It's an attitude of repentance. That's what's happening with this whole procession going out to Esau. He sends the people and the animals and tells them to give a message to Esau: These gifts are from your servant, Jacob. Now, he's scared, yes, but he's coming behind us. He's indebted himself to you. Do you want a sign of a changed life? Do you want a sign of a repentant heart? You are prepared to go to the person you have offended, and you say to them, “Because of what the Lord has done in me through the power of the Lord Jesus Christ, I can come before you and serve you.”Think of Zaccheus, “A wee little man was he. He climbed up in the sycamore tree for the Lord he wanted to see. In the British version, it says, “And Jesus said, ‘I'm coming to your house for tea,'” because they all drank tea back then. But what does Zaccheus do? Does he just say, “Lord, I'm sorry. I was bad. I did wrong. Forgive me, Lord,” and then just move on?No! He gives four times back. He repays his debts. It's evidence of a changed man. And that's the other thing that Jacob is doing, right? He's gifting these 550 animals. He's saying, “Brother, I stole your blessing. I used deception and trickery for my own advantage, and now I'm giving it back to you” because I understand I need to be made right with you.”It's more than just feeling sorry in a moment. In Scripture, repentance is God's work of grace in my heart. I am sorry for my sin and find His forgiveness, but I'm also working towards restoration, repairing whatever damage I have caused.The story is told of a machinist or factory worker in the Ford Motor Company in Detroit who had, over several years, borrowed tools and equipment, but never returned them. The machinist was thoroughly converted and was baptized. He wanted to put his faith into practice, so he came back to work to his boss, to the foreman, and he brought all the tools he had stolen and all the equipment he had taken, and the foreman didn't know what to do. And he's repenting, and he's confessing what he's done, and so the foreman, impressed by this, cables Henry Ford and says, “You're not going to believe this. This guy's come back, and he's brought everything with him,” to which Ford cabled back, “Dam up the Detroit River and baptize the whole city.” That's what's happening here with Jacob. He's bringing the blessing back. The blessing that the Lord has poured out on him, he's giving it back. Jacob returning. Then we have a second scene, which I'm sure we're all a little more familiar with, and this is the scene of Jacob wrestling. He's not only sent his possessions on, he's sent his whole family ahead. Verse 22 states, “He took his wives and servants and his eleven children, and they crossed over the Jabbok at night.”And then, in verse 24, he's all alone, and a man grabs him in the darkness and begins to wrestle with him. My seventh-grade self's nightmare because I didn't like wrestling. That was the allusion to that if you're following along.Who do you think Jacob thinks he's wrestling? It's most likely that he thinks he's wrestling with the man who swore to kill him, the man that all of this procession and all this fuss is about. At this moment, Esau is who Jacob thinks his most significant conflict is with. The one I have to wrestle with is my brother, it's Esau. But that is not who he wrestles with in the night, as we find out later in this passage and as we read in Hosea chapter 12, which is a little brief commentary. We find out that Jacob is, in fact, wrestling with some manifestation of God in the flesh, a pre-incarnate Christ. And so then we're left to ask the question, What will God gain from this, from wrestling with Jacob? He's already sent all his possessions on ahead. Surely, God is finished with Jacob. He's repentant, he's confessed, he's done it all. There is no box left to check. But you see, Jacob has given all he has back, but the most important thing is that he has yet to give back. Do you know what it is? It's Jacob. It's Jacob himself. And Jacob may think that Esau is trying to get what is his, which is to take Jacob's life, but the reality is that God is wrestling with Jacob to take what is His—which is Jacob! And this wrestling, it's like a father with a child. You know there's a way I'm not a good wrestler, as we've illustrated, and you're trying to catch up with me on this. But there's a way for me to wrestle with my children while they're young, though my son is getting to the age where I can't keep up with him. But there's a way for me to wrestle with them, which keeps them engaged for a long time in which I never lose, and they never lose. That's sort of what God is doing with Jacob here.But then He does this thing where He touches Jacob's hip, and now Jacob has this dislocated hip, and you need your hip as a pivot to wrestle, so now he's got nothing, he's zero. And he's clinging to God, and God is saying to him, “Let me go. Let me go,” and Jacob says, “I'm not going to let you go unless you bless me.”Here's the context of these situations: The lesser is always blessed by the greater, so Jacob acknowledges that he is holding onto the greater being. I imagine he's still not sure who he's wrestling with, but he's holding on, and he sees by the power that's rendered his hip inoperable that he's holding on to a greater being. And he's saying, “I will not let you go unless you bless me.”If you go back and look at Jacob's life, you know what you'll see? Jacob is immensely blessed. Everything he does is blessed, right? That's what God promised to do, and that's what he's receiving. Everywhere he went, every person he interacted with was blessed, just as God has blessed us immensely. If only we had eyes to see, we could have blessing upon blessing in our lives and still miss the main point. The main point is not the blessings, plural, but God's blessing. And what is God's blessing? It is that He has every part of us. And how Jacob enters into this blessing is obvious: God says to him, “What is your name?” And the response is one word: Jacob. Jakob. What's in the name? Twister is the etymology of the name Jacob. Twister, deceiver, heel-clutcher. And now God has gotten to the bottom of the issue: it's a confession. I am unrighteous, I am a sinner. My identity was in who and how I could trick them.God is going right for his heart, saying, “Give me your heart, Jacob. That's what I want.” You see that God is prepared to dislocate Jacob's hip to have Jacob's heart. That may be what God is saying to you, that the way to your heart is by the divine dislocation of something you take pride in, which is a source of great strength for you. Maybe you notice He's touched the very thing in which you have depended on for your life, and He's taken it away from you. That's what's happening to Jacob. The Lord draws him in to say, “Jacob, it's not all the things in your life that I want you to give me; it's yourself that I want.”But you see, there's a third scene, a beautiful scene. Jacob returned, Jacob wrestled, and now Jacob was limping. In the next chapter, chapter 33 of Genesis, we see Jacob return to his brother Esau, but he's not at the back of the caravan as he was before with his plan. He's at the front now and prepared to take it all. But we're told that he's doing two things. One, he's bowing down seven times, and the other is using the language of “I am the servant, and you, Esau, are the lord.” But I think if you were there that day to watch this encounter, those would not be the two things you would have paid attention to. I think the thing that would have captured your attention would have been this: his limp. Why is this significant? Because, beloved, this is a picture of the Christian life. Men and women who have been dislocated to different degrees because of the work of God in their lives and caused to limp, humbled under His sovereign, mighty hand; caused to limp, caused to be conscious of this for the rest of their lives of their weakness and their dependence on the Lord. Dependent on His forgiveness, dependent on His power—moment by moment, day by day. But the sun has risen upon them. I wonder if you've come across one of these people. And it doesn't always have to be a physical variation of this; sometimes it's unseen, the wound, the dislocation. But when we were in Australia, there was a young man. He was in our Bible study, and he looked like he had been in a fire. He had an autoimmune disorder, and he received a bone marrow transplant from his sister, but the transplant caused his body to fight against itself. And so his body was covered in sores and blisters everywhere, and ulcers filled his mouth. Walking was difficult; eating was difficult. As I said, he was in our Bible study, and so when I asked him his story, he said to me that he was a great swimmer. When he was in high school, he was actually training for the Olympics for the Australian national team. Then he started feeling strange, and his swim time started getting slower and slower, and that's when all the medical issues began in his life.And he told me, he said, “You know, before, I was a good kid, but I was very full of myself. I was arrogant. But God reached in and dislocated a part of me, taking away things I loved doing.” And even through his anger, frustration, agony, and pain, he never left the Lord, and the Lord certainly never left him. He would testify to the goodness of God, despite what everybody saw physically with their eyes when they encountered them. His faith and his dependence on the Lord remained until the Lord called him home a few years ago. This is how the Lord said to him, “I want every part of you. I want your heart.” You see, this is not just a principle of spiritual usefulness for Jacob and for us; this takes us to the heart of the gospel. For you see, there would be another night, centuries later, where two wrestlers were engaged, but this time a Son with His Heavenly Father, as He said, “Let this cup pass from me.” And there is an equality in the wrestling. “Let this cup pass from me, and yet, I will not let you go despite what is coming, the agony and the shame that will be borne on the cross. I will not let you go, Father, until you bless them,” which is why He says, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.” And so He, as Paul says, upon that cross became a curse so that the blessing may come to us. Where are you today? Perhaps you're on your way, like Jacob, and you're walking through repentance and forgiveness. Are you willing to give up a little but not the whole? Perhaps you're wrestling with God over these things at this moment, and you give a little, but then you fight for others, and it's a give-and-take relationship, and it's very back and forth. Perhaps you want to let go, or perhaps you have let go in the past, and the Lord keeps re-engaging with you in this wrestling match, and He's waiting for you to say, “Don't let me go. I will not let you go, even if it means me having a limp for the rest of my life.”Do you have a limp? Do you have a dislocation? May the Lord be gracious to us as He pursues our hearts. 

This latest episode is my quarterly conversation with Like the Wind magazine co-founder and editor Simon Freeman. We recorded the episode back in April and I put it out yesterday. Ordinarily it coincides with the release of a new issue of LtW, in which an excerpt of the conversation usually appears, but the latest edition of the magazine is “by women, about women, for everyone,” so Simon and I sat this one out. (You can buy a copy or subscribe here.) We still had a great chat, however, about a few topics that both of us have spent quite a bit of time thinking about: how we handle change, shifting priorities over time, defining our values, and emphasizing quality in our work. We quite enjoyed it, and hope you do too, so tune in wherever you listen to podcasts.This episode is brought to you by: — Tracksmith, New Balance, Precision Fuel & Hydration, and Final Surge. All of these brands have missions I believe in and products that I trust and use myself on a regular basis. One of the best ways to support the morning shakeout is by patronizing the partners that help keep them going week in and week out. Check out this page some of the discount codes and special offers available exclusively to readers and listeners of the morning shakeout.Click here for complete show notes and sign up here to get the morning shakeout email newsletter delivered to your inbox every Tuesday.Music and editing for this episode of the morning shakeout podcast by John Summerford. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this fast-paced world, managing our emotions and understanding those of others is more crucial than ever. Emotional intelligence (EQ) is about recognizing and managing your emotions effectively to reduce stress, communicate, empathize, overcome challenges, and defuse conflict. With high EQ, you can improve relationships, excel at work, and achieve your career and personal goals. Today, Jonathan Youssef is joined by Clay Kirkland, a returning guest with over two decades of coaching experience and a rich background in staff development at the University of Georgia Wesley Foundation. Clay is certified in emotional intelligence and includes EQ as a vital coaching component. Clay breaks down the concept of EQ into four crucial quadrants: self-awareness, self-management, social awareness, and relationship management. This episode isn't just theoretical; it is filled with practical advice, from managing personal emotions to enhancing interpersonal relations in various spheres of life, such as parenting, the workplace, and within the church community.Listeners will gain insights into how emotional intelligence intersects with spiritual maturity, the practical applications of EQ in everyday scenarios, and strategies for developing emotional resilience. Clay's explanations bridge scientific understanding with theological perspectives, making this a must-listen for anyone seeking to enhance their emotional skills and lead a more fulfilling, empathetic life. Join us as we explore how mastering emotional intelligence can lead to profound personal growth and significantly better interactions in all areas of life. This episode is for you, whether you're a leader, a parent, or simply someone looking to understand the emotional dynamics of the human mind.To ask Jonathan a question or connect with the Candid community, visit https://LTW.org/CandidFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/candidpodInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/candidpodTwitter: https://twitter.com/thecandidpodTRANSCRIPT:This transcript recounts Candid Conversations with Jonathan Youssef Episode 254:  What is Emotional Intelligence and Why Does it Matter?: Clay Kirkland [00:01] JONATHAN: Well, today we have a repeat guest. We like having repeat guests. We like to build up some relational collateral with our audience and so we've brought back Clay Kirkland. Clay has spoken on a number of topics, including calling, with us on Candid Conversations, and today we are talking about emotional intelligence. Clay is a life coach with twenty-plus years of experience. He served for eighteen years as the director of staff development at the Wesley Foundation at the University of Georgia in Athens. He has a Master of Divinity from Asbury Theological Seminary and he is a Gallup-Certified Strengths Coach. And so I will say, “Welcome back, Clay.”[00:51] CLAY: Thank you. I appreciate it. Glad to be here. [00:55] JONATHAN: Well, this is a topic that has always been of great interest to me, and obviously to my team as we were having this conversation and your name came up pretty much immediately, and it's this issue of emotional intelligence, EQ, right? That's our abbreviation. So this is not IQ, a measure of general intelligence. This is EQ, emotional intelligence, and so maybe help us define emotional intelligence. Why is it important? What is it? Kind of step us through a little bit of that process.[01:37] CLAY: Sure. Yeah. So it's a great topic. I'm very excited to be here to talk about it. And it's gone through a lot of iterations in terms of its understanding. Probably in the last forty years, really, it's been around and I'd say probably the last fifteen or twenty it's become a major player in conversations both in the business sector and also just in general. If we wanted to really boil it down to probably its simplest form, you would want to think about emotional intelligence in four different parts. Do you know yourself? Can you manage or read yourself? Do you know others? Can you manage and influence others? And that's about as easy as we can get it. We're leaving some things out, but across the bow, that's what we're looking for those four quadrants. There's a self-understanding, there's a social understanding, then there's a self-leadership or management, and there's a social leadership management and understanding.[02:55] JONATHAN: Even in just giving the categories I feel like I'm picking up on the necessity of being able to understand yourself and know yourself, being able to manage yourself, right, self-control—it's a fruit of the Spirit. And then on the relational spectrum, being able to relate to others, are … How do you lead? How do you interpret people's body language and cues and things that are being given off? So let's talk about the importance of just those four categories that you've given us.[03:45] CLAY: Sure. Well, you can, if we start with knowing yourself, right, and then think about that, as it relates to knowing others, we say things in life to our family or things are said about us that lead us back to what we're really talking about when it comes to emotions. So you'll hear people say things like, “He doesn't have a clue what's going on.” Or “Do you realize how angry you sounded when you said that?” And that immediate defensive posture. So in interpersonal relationships, it's pretty much there on a consistent basis, that idea of do you know what's on the other side of you? And that's the self-awareness, right? And then do you know what's happening with the people that are around you? So that's the first part, right; it's just this knowledge. And the great thing—I didn't mention this earlier, but the great thing of this kind of understanding emotional intelligence that plays into a lot of the definitions that people are putting out these days are that these are a set of skills that can be learned. This is not a—[05:09] JONATHAN: You're not born with it.[05:10] CLAY: —personality trait that, you've gotten and you're just stuck there. This is dynamic in a good way, but also in a sobering way in the sense that you can be really good at these and then stop being good at these, or you can be not good at these and then [05:31] CLAY: —they slide. But then outside of that awareness and knowledge, it's what do you do with it? Do you know how to manage yourself? And again, it's an interplay. It's always going to blend with the knowledge. Do you know what's appropriate for the moment either for yourself, coming out of you, with others, and then, can you apply this? So when we think about the brain, we're thinking about this process of your limbic system where the seat of your emotions are, and your prefrontal cortex, where you're making your rational decisions. So do you have understanding of both of those? Do you have control over both of those? And can you manage that—when you're alone—or can you do that also when you're with other people?[06:34] JONATHAN: This is very scientific but also very practical. Let's bring in the world of theology. How do you differentiate between spiritual maturity—or do you differentiate between spiritual maturity and emotional intelligence? Are they one in the same?[06:56] CLAY: I think you have to differentiate between the two, simply because someone who has no spiritual/religious anything—[07:09] JONATHAN: They're capable of growing.[07:13] CLAY: And being very emotionally intelligent. So you're not automatically emotionally intelligent because you have some type of spiritual maturity in the sense of you have a relationship with God or you do certain religious disciplines that make you, in the eyes of other people, highly religious or devout.There has to be a difference there. But when we look at the practical applications of emotional intelligence and you look at them and the practical applications of spiritual maturity—so probably the easiest one to go to is in the New Testament, to look at the fruits of the Spirit. You start talking about love, joy, patience, kindness, goodness. You get all the way down to self-control. And then you pull those back into the outcomes that emotional intelligence is supposed to create, there's a lot of similarities, right? Obviously, self-control is one. Optimism is a massive one, which we can really link to joy and hope. The kindness piece would clearly cover those kind of interpersonal relationships. So it's not a perfect overlay, but that's where you see it.[08:32] JONATHAN: Yeah, lots of connectivity there for sure.[08:34] CLAY: Yes, a lot. [08:38] JONATHAN:You mentioned the limbic system, the prefrontal cortex. Talk me through a little bit of that to give some clarity here.[08:52] CLAY: Sure. And again, let's make it real simple.[08:56] JONATHAN: Thanks.[08:58] CLAY: Yeah, for all of us. You're going to have your reptilian part of your brain. That's your fight, your flight when you're in danger. That's just kind of that aspect. If we get past that, we're typically going to put our neural functions into two other categories. That's going to be your limbic system, and that's the “I feel” place. And then your neocortex, that prefrontal cortex, where you're going to think rationally and you're going to make decisions, you're going to process them.So what we're trying to say is, because you get this a lot when I go around and talk to people about emotional intelligence, you'll typically hear someone or a group of people identify and say, “I don't have a lot of feelings. I'm not very emotional, so I don't know if this is going to help.”[09:59] JONATHAN: “I'm a thinker, not a feeler,” right?[10:01] CLAY: That's correct, which just means that they're leaning much more heavily into one area of their brain than the others. That doesn't mean that they don't feel. It doesn't mean that that limbic system is depressed or deformed or anything else; it just means that they are not as aware that that part of their brain is functioning and can function for them in positive, neutral or negative ways.Again, if you were to describe me and say, “Hey Clay, on a scale of 1 to 10, how emotional are you,” most people then link that to when's the last time you cried? Do you get chill bumps when you watch a video, or a commercial at Christmas, or whatever? And I would say, no, that's not the type of person I am. But that still doesn't mean that that limbic system within my brain isn't an active part of the brain. Because it is. For all of us it is, we're just not leaning into it.[11:14] JONATHAN: So is there a way—I'm sure we're all thinking of a person that perhaps is not leaning into their limbic system, and we're thinking, How do you exercise that? And I'm assuming that your goal with clients and that sort of things is to try and help find balance. I assume you want a balance between being in touch with emotions, right, because emotions can be good indicators. They can also mislead, but they can be good indicators. And then you need a rational side to help navigate that. So how do you sort of exercise—and we can do both sides of that—how do you, for those who are very much a feelings-generated person, how do they exercise their thinking and vice-versa?[12:10] CLAY: All right. So let's start with the person who typically is not necessarily a feeling-type person. I'll give you an example. I had a client several years ago, and he was a CEO of a company and I got brought in to work with him. We were meeting in the lobby of the hotel, like in the restaurant, and I asked him, I said, “Tell me a recent story about something that went wrong at work.”So he tells me the story. And after he finishes, I said, “How do you feel about that?” And he said, “Bad.” I said, “Try something a little bit more deep, descriptive.” And he just stared at me and said, “I don't know, it just made me feel bad.” So I said, “Have you ever heard of the ‘emotions wheel'? It's a very common graphic, you can google it.”So he pulled out his phone and said, “Siri, Google,” and here comes the emotions wheel. It pops up on it and he stares at it. He stares at it for probably seven minutes. I was like, “Wow, I don't know if he's going to be able to do it.”And he finally said, “Angry.”And I said, “All right! Great! This is good. This is good.” So we spent several months with that wheel, using exercises that would help him start to recognize that he has feelings that are coursing in and out of his brain that he just wasn't giving airtime to. So again, people who aren't touchy-feely or aren't kind of the emotional types, they typically won't feel anger. They're aware of that frustration, but what they typically do, they're guarding themselves. And this is where we're going to get off on a rabbit trail, so I'm going to pause myself, but they are typically guarding themselves from certain emotions they don't like or they don't believe are good or not the type of person they would be. Or pain, or whatever, again, can't go there. But that's typically what you see. So we just started to do exercises that caused him to become very aware of the emotions that were coursing through his brain and body and it became helpful. Again, it's not necessarily the end product, but we just needed to at least give some recognition.On the flip side, someone who's highly emotional, again, the way they would describe themselves, and they would say, “Well, I don't really think that much,” they do think a lot; they are just thinking primarily through their emotions. And you said it earlier: they can be great indicators, but they can also be misleading. So that's where we kind of do some exercises for people in that kind of space to really pause and start to learn where they're making their decisions from. Why are you doing this? “Because I feel like it.” What do you feel? “Well, I feel …” and they can just tell you.And so that's when you have to do some exercises where you pause and put them in situations where you say something like, “If your friend was about to do this, how would you tell him or her what to do? What kind of advice would you give them?” That gives them a pause to consider. Or it's a common kind of way that we would do it, but we would debate our emotions. So your classic, classic example for this is—and this just happened recently, so this is a true story, here in this office—I got here early because the fire company told me they needed to come and do a test on the fire system. So 6:30 in the morning I walk through here, only saw one other person in the office and said, “Hey, there's a fire alarm test.” He said, “Okay, great.”So what I didn't notice was that someone was parking and then they were coming into the front doors about ninety seconds after I warned the one person that the fire alarm would go off. And this woman came running down the hallway in panic and scared, because she and I both heard the same fire alarm, but because I had certain knowledge, I had zero panic and fear, and had no emotion towards the fire alarm whatsoever. And she had incredible emotions towards it, and therefore, she was running, she was trying to save people. She was looking for people to save because she thought that we were going up in flames, and she just couldn't believe it.So the point of that is to say when you have something that triggers emotion, you can debate it. If you know that you need to learn something about your emotions, you can debate it, again, to say, “Is there a reason for me to feel any other way? Is there a trigger or consequence that I'm concerned about? Is there any context that I could give myself that could perhaps change the way that I feel currently?”And again, they are all methods. Those are all different ways—and we can get into those exercises if you want to—but the point of those exercises is to pause yourself before you push whenever that limbic system is pushing into your vision, near the forefront of your mind, to make that the only way that you can make a decision. We're just trying to pause you enough to give you an option to have your other parts of your brain work.[18:31] JONATHAN: This sort of happened recently—I should be careful; I should use third-party examples. But my wife and I were at the beach, and our son was playing near and we were talking with friends. And we were keeping an eye on him, and then all of a sudden he was gone. And so we went into full panic mode. And we're looking in the water and it's just like it was emotion-driven. There's very little rational thought process and the panic mode strikes. He's not where he was; something terrible must have happened.And I remember after panicking for a while I finally just stopped. I did the pause, kind of what you're talking about, and I thought, “Okay, we've been here before. He knows this place.” So I told my wife, I said, “Go back up to where we're staying and check for him there.” And then I thought, “There's a little statue that I know he likes. Let me go see maybe if he's gone over there.” Because we hadn't thought, “Well, he ran past us,” because we would have seen him. But I thought, “Well, we might have been engaged in conversation and missed him.”And sure enough, as I'm running to the statue, there he is, playing in the sand. And he had run past us, chasing a seagull or something. And it was like, okay, if I just took a minute to think, all right, what are the logical things that could have happened here? But at the same time, God has given us those panic senses to where if something terrible had happened, your body is in that sort of fight, hopefully not flight, but fight mode of I need to do … I need to, as the example of the lady in the office, she's trying to save people. That's a good thing if the fire alarm is going off. But I see what you're saying in terms of just taking a minute to think, “What information do I have? What am I …?” Because I think your mind probably shuts down, you get into tunnel vision and that sort of thing.Let's talk a little bit about IQ versus EQ. And in terms of the way that we look at people, the way we consider talent, children, workplace environment, hiring, all that sort of thing. How do you see the consequences of prioritizing one over the other kind of play out? [21:04] CLAY: I'd say in the last twenty years or so there's been a push to raise the importance of EQ. Not to diminish IQ, because it's important to learn, become smart, develop that part of your brain. But this isn't a choose one over the other. Now, right, is to say we probably missed it when we were only pushing get smarter, get this score on a test, get this acceptance, then you'll be successful. Harvard Business Review came out and said that there is … the differences between good leaders and great leaders, that gap. If you were to look in that gap and see what's in there, they would say 80 percent of the contents in that gap are in the emotional intelligence sector. So that's what they would say. Daniel Goleman, who's one of the most popular voices on emotional intelligence, wrote Primal Leadership and several other books about it over the course of the past thirty years, he would say that if you're looking to define success and what's going to make you successful in this day and age, he would say 80 percent of the contents of that recipe would also be in emotional intelligence.And I think what they're saying—this is me trying to interpret a little bit—again, it's not to say, “Well, that means only 20 percent is IQ.” That's not what it's saying. It's saying we pushed, “Be smart, be smart, be smart, be smart” so hard, that's almost like a get it. Like when you look at people who work hard in high school, go to college, get really good grades, get a competitive job, I'll bring Google up in a second, but that's that pattern. We said, “IQ, IQ, IQ, IQ.” And here's how you're going to be measured on that, you're going to get rewarded. You're going to get awards, you're going to get plaques, you're going to get acceptance letters, you're going to get scholarships, and you're going to get a job.” That's the way we measure IQ. We pushed that so much, it's almost like you have to do this. But if you also add extra, what is that extra? Well, 80 percent of that extra, I would say, would be emotional intelligence. So that's where I think that those figures are coming from. You can google these things if you want to, but they did two what they would call projects where they studied their employees, one almost around 2000, and then twelve to thirteen years later. And they were very surprised, as was everyone else, because they had kind of the best of the best, the brightest people, the Ivy League schools and so on and so forth. And they were trying to differentiate why some teams were doing better than others and why some individuals were doing better than others. And that's when they started to find out that their term was “soft skills” were trumping hard skills. And they were trumping them in the sense that everyone came almost with the same hard skills—the STEM degrees that they all came with—but then why were some doing really well and why were some not? And that's when they started to see qualities like coachability, curiosity, emotional intelligence, empathy, listening. Those things were what they saw in both individuals and teams to see where people really are being successful.So as a parent and vocationally and all those kind of things, it's not that we should depress one in order to elevate the other as much as you're both working on our ability to become smarter but also your ability to be more emotional.[25:18] JONATHAN: We see this in Scripture, apart from just fruit of the spirit. What are some of the areas? Certainly there's a high level of EQ that we would see, for instance, in the Psalms, which maybe explains why David was a good king and others probably were maybe lacking in those areas. I'm trying to think it as it relates to us in the Christian life specifically and it's interesting that you bring up Google. I would think coding or something in the technology field, I wouldn't think there's as much relationality in business versus like sales or pastoral ministry or something where you really need those muscles exercised. But at the same time, it's interesting that what they're finding is that even in the technology field, your success has a balanced element to those who have the soft skills, who have elements of emotional intelligence and empathy and all those sorts of things are actually helping in that plus area, as you described it. Help us detangle some of that and just thinking like from a scriptural perspective. How does something like emotional intelligence equip you for being better in all those different areas?[27:21] CLAY: Sure. Let me stab that one real quick and then come back to some of those biblical things. You know it's interesting. If you look at statistics back when Millennials were in the limelight, I'd say about ten years ago, they would say at that point that 80 percent of them wanted to work in a place of collaboration; that is what they were desiring in a workplace. Those statistics have only gotten higher as Gen Z's are infiltrating now the workplace.So you see that push for now over half of the workforce, so regardless of what industry you're going to find, you're seeing that desire for camaraderie, teamwork, connections. So even post-COVID where a lot of things have gone hybrid, work models, it's still you're on a Teams meeting, you're on a Zoom meeting, you're still interacting. And so I have several clients, current and former, in that tech space, really smart people, and they do have to code a lot by themselves, but it's when they have to talk to the customer, when they have to talk to the teammate, when they have to interact with the boss that that's where the skills either put them into a place of advantage or [unintelligible]. So it's going to be very difficult for almost any job to be a job where you're not going to need some type of emotional intelligence skills in order to make yourself successful. Can you find it out there? Sure, there's just not that many. So most of us are going to find ourselves in positions where if we have emotional intelligence, we will succeed, stand out, excel.[29:18] JONATHAN: And we're relational beings. I mean, even by our very creation.[29:23] CLAY: Yes, absolutely. So that's that little vignette there. So I would say—you mentioned the Psalms. I mean, the Psalms are great. I love the rhythm of Psalms. I had to take a class in the Psalms when I was in seminary, I chose to, and it was fantastic. But there's almost like this general rhythm of David in the Psalms because most of them from what we understand, or at least at the onset, privately written. And obviously, some of them were more for the tribe, the songs, but typically they were private.So there's this process of raw, honest emotion about the good, the bad, and the ugly of life (I mean, not all of them are sad) and then some possible outcomes that either were happening or could happen. And then there's typically, almost in every psalm, this point to which David or the other psalmists get to where they then recognize who they are and who God is, what God might do compared to what they might do, and then there's a surrender of those things that they've felt and seen and wanted and they let go. And so that in and of itself, you could study that for a long time.Psalm 139, right, it's almost like a classic for emotional intelligence, especially the end, “Search me and know me,” right? So there's self-awareness, I want to be known. “See if there is any hurtful way in me.” That's I want to get better. But this is my favorite part is that at the very end he says, “And then lead me in the way everlasting.” The reason that's my favorite part is because of how it's saying the self-help movement gets it wrong when it puts navel-gazing and self-awareness as the end. Just become aware and the longer you can stay aware and the more that you can stay aware, you're good. It doesn't mean you're good.[31:47] JONATHAN: There's no way forward.[31:50] CLAY: That's correct. Right. So David there it's like, “Hey, I want to be aware of myself. I need to be aware of myself.” The whole psalm is basically saying, “You're absolutely aware of me. I'm pretty much under the spotlight.” I want that awareness and I want you to continue to have that awareness, not so that I can be aware; so that I can then go the ways you want me to go.When I was at Wesley, we had this phrase we would do first-year time, second-year time, third-year time [unintelligible] our second-year term. And this was the phrase that I took there. It said, “We're going to focus on you so that then we can get you out of the way.” So we wanted to have some quote/unquote navel-gazing time. We did strengths finder for them, we had emotional intelligence for them. Again, where there's a lot of awareness. But it's not just so that they can know themselves; it's so that they can know where they need help, where they need to get better, where they are doing well so that we can get all that out of the way so that we don't have to be in the limelight. We can actually then serve others [overlapping voices] and give ourselves over to the things that God wants us to do.And that's why I [unintelligible] [33:21] JONATHAN: That's right. No, you're right on, and that's a helpful sort of thought process through that. I mean, even through that lens of emotional intelligence. We live in a day and age where everything is volatile, people are triggered by anything and everything. And then you add in a layer of social media or anonymity through the computer, which sort of exacerbates our problem. How do we develop greater emotional resilience and self-control? How do we as believers navigate that terrain.[34:11] CLAY: Huge thought there for sure. I'll just take one swing at it, because that's—[34:20] JONATHAN: We'll do a five-part episode.[34:23] CLAY: Yeah, that's a big one. I'll go real technical in terms of emotional intelligence [unintelligible]. In the assessment that I'm trained in and I like to administer to people, it's got subsets. So it's got fifteen of them. Two of them, I think, speak to some of this. One of them is flexibility. And flexibility and that subset is when things change, like you've decided something is going one way but now something out of your control has changed it, how do you respond?On the other side of that coin, the next thing we administer is stress tolerance. Stress tolerance is you want things to change desperately and they're not. They're stuck. [unintelligible] And so in those two, when I look at volatility of our current culture and social media, it's you see a plan so easily in those two regards. Someone has an opinion, someone has the other one, you can't change their opinion, so what are you going to do about it? Nowadays, we just trash the other person.[35:52] JONATHAN: Ad hominem, yeah. [35:54] CLAY: That's our response. On the other side, when we had a plan and now everything has changed and we didn't get to choose that, how do we respond? We blame everybody. We have to find someone to blame because we think that that's going to make it better. Right now we look for someone to blame instead of moving into that place of resilience and grit and realizing that not everything is going to go our way. So part of that emotional intelligence, when you look at how you become flexible, become better at stress tolerance.A huge part of it is just accepting the fact that things are not always going to be good; things are not always going to go your way; and that is everybody's life. You want to take it to a biblical place, then you go back to the words of Jesus where He said, “In this world you'll have trouble.” He's already told you. And everybody's response to it. He gives you the clue, if you're doing it from a Christian perspective, He says, “But I have overcome the world,” meaning that your perspective is going to change how you respond to those situations. If the weight of the world is on that moment, you know, it'll crush you. But if you realize that that's not the weight of the world, regardless of the situation, even if it's going to hurt, those kind of things are going to take a bite out of you, it gives you the ability to realize that you can recover, you can make it through it.And that's a key part, I think, in all of that. I'll give you an example, a real practical example. I use this with my kids, but I also use this with adults for sure. I use it with myself. Ask myself this all the time. I can't remember where I came up with this, but so this is the question when you're faced with a situation that's hard, heavy, frustrating, whatever it is, and you have the option of choosing an emotional, unintelligent response, is this. This is the question I ask. Is this going to be in your book?I can say that to my kids, and they know exactly what I'm talking about. If they don't know what I'm talking about, then I give them this context. At the end of your life, you get two hundred pages to write your autobiography. This situation right now, is this a chapter? Is this a page? Is this a paragraph? Is this a sentence? Or is it on the editing floor? And almost always this will be on the editing floor. And so if it's on the editing floor, then why are we treating it like it's a chapter? And that's the context. So that's the question I ask myself, and I give it to my kids as well and that's what I tell my people at my office. Again, it gives you pause. That's the whole point of this is to pause. But the whole idea of emotional intelligence is this, and how they came up with this, I don't know. People smarter than me. I would say this: that you have six seconds to choose your emotional intelligence response, meaning that your brain likes to default to habits, and so you'll habitually just respond. You think about traffic. Any time I see traffic, I get angry, so shoulders go up, eyebrows go down, my tone changes, whatever, it's just your habit. You're choosing it, you just didn't realize that your brain is in default into the choice. You're really not giving yourself that option.But the six seconds comes into play in the sense of you can actually choose to go a different path. We're talking about neural paths. You can choose a different neural pathway. Your brain would prefer to go the habitual route because then it doesn't have to work that hard. So in all of these things, what we're trying to do is to give ourselves pause enough to alert ourselves that we're probably about to choose a default that is not the best choice, and can we train ourselves to a point where we say, ah, not to do this, probably should do this. It's the train tracks, shifting from one track to another. That's really what we're trying to do in any exercise that we do in emotional intelligence is to pause and then give that new skill an opportunity to get some [unintelligible] and get some legs [unintelligible] [41:18] JONATHAN: And it's funny, because in order to get to that position, you have to have self-awareness. You have to be aware that what's going on is—and I'm just even putting myself in situations where I'm like, oh, that is absolutely my mental state goes to a default position. Oh, this happened and I know that this is my reaction. And you're right; sometimes it's like I don't even think about it. It's just this is just what I do.It makes me think of sort of the enneagram thing, well, that's just who I am. I'm a fill-in-the-number, but there's no, okay, so is that your paradigm? Is that who you are and that defines you? Or are you at a position to where you can challenge yourself, and to your point, take a pause and consider, okay, do I have other options here? I absolutely do. Which is really, if you think about it from a gospel perspective, it's like do I have to keep choosing law over injustice for people over whatever situation? Or at what point do I choose to show grace and mercy, which by definition are undeserved for those people? And that's really where the gospel message comes in, because if God operated under our own default paradigm, if He was created in our image, then it would be law-justice, law-justice all day every day. But grace and mercy are so alien to us, and that's the beauty of Christ's work and what He has done.You've shared a lot of really great and helpful stories, but could you give us some examples of applied EQ principles in—and I'm going to give you three different things, and then I'll remind you of them if you can't remember. So one for parenting, two, the workplace, and three, the church. So we'll start with parenting. [43:32] CLAY: I'll be as practical and as vulnerable as I can. What we're trying to teach—we've got six kids, a major focus for us right now is just empathy, how to put yourself in someone else's shoes. A funny but revealing story is several years ago my wife was crying about a certain matter. One of my sons—[44:02] JONATHAN: Name redacted.[44:05] CLAY: We'll keep it redacted. One of my sons came in and saw her and immediately started crying. And then another one of my sons came in and looked at his brother and said, “Why are you crying?” And he said, “I'm crying because she's crying.” And then that brother who was not crying was like, “That's the weirdest thing I've ever seen.”[44:28] JONATHAN: That doesn't make sense to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.CLAY: In general, we all have starting points, and those starting points have been formed and fashioned by our personality, our family systems, I mean all of these things. So that's why I love taking these type of assessments, because they show you where you're starting from. Then you get to know where you need to go. So again, take Son A in that story. Empathy is already off the charts. I mean, just his starting point is he's probably at an A-. There's one little uptick and he's perfect.The other son probably at a D or F in that area. He really needs to work on it. And that was me when I took my first assessment of emotional intelligence ten years ago, very low empathy. I've spent several months, almost half a year, keeping an empathy log so I can start to train my brain to think about someone else's emotions. And it got much better, but it's something I really had to learn. In parenting, we're saying regardless of your starting point, this is something that matters. It matters biblical standpoint, it's truly what Jesus did and still does. It, from an interpersonal standpoint, if you can't put yourself in someone else's shoes, that's going to be very difficult for you to have compassion on someone and serve someone to even care when they're not in alignment of what you want.So we have just said this matters. So we are consistently asking our kids when they say something about one of their siblings, “How do you think so-and-so feels about this? Where are they in this story?” So that's our skill right now, so it's above any other skills that we're trying to get. One, as a family of eight, we're hoping to do that well. If we can, have empathy, so we're working on that. When I think about our kids being released into the wild, and if they carry that skill with them, it will carry them a long way, regardless of what they do. And I don't need them to get recognized for it in the long way in the sense that they will do well if they do right by people.[47:29] JONATHAN: They'll be a good friend.[47:31] CLAY: Absolutely. So huge piece in that one, and that's what we've worked with there. In terms of business, I would say the really big piece of business is if you can listen, understand, and then reinterpret what you've heard to other people, you can't help but be successful, because people will flock to you because of your ability to do that. I call it the meeting after the meeting in business. And that's someone, we have a meeting and then something is lost in translation and something's then misinterpreted and then that person is, “That's not what is said. That's not what I meant at all.” And then now they have to go have a meeting about that meeting.[48:29] JONATHAN: I've been in those.[48:30] CLAY: You've been in those. We've all been in those. So now you're having a meeting about a meeting and then you're going to have to leave that meeting and have another meeting in order to let everybody else know what happened in that meeting after the meeting that should have happened in the meeting. And so that differentiator of active listening, being able to communicate empathetically, being able to communicate clearly. You know in emotional intelligence we would talk about emotional self-expression, to be able to clearly say what you're feeling, right? You can see that every day almost in practical experiences in yourself where you've got your typical passive-aggressive, bless you heart type who's lying through their teeth. They don't have any blessings for you, but that's what they say. So that type of differentiator in the business sector is massive, it's just huge, huge.Tell me the third category.[49:40] JONATHAN: The church.[49:42] CLAY: The church, yes. The church, the church, the church. Oh man, this one and a lot of different other places for this one. I'll pick one, and maybe it's probably not the most popular one, I was in ministry for, well, ran it for eighteen years and was in almost twenty years, for nineteen years. Had a lot of friends in ministry. And to see where they are now, I would say that ability to handle emotions, not just their own but other people's, burden-bearing perhaps the more specific term, and then to be able to handle the stress of that, to have mechanisms to keep that at bay. The primary term you're hearing these days is burnout. Burnout to me is when someone and they have had a moral failure, they've stolen money from the church, they've ripped their kids' lives apart, that's not good. But typically what you see before burnout—when we say burnout, like “Hey, I just can't do this anymore,” now they're completely unhealthy and that's going into sexual improprieties, that's going into financial improprieties, that's going into the idea of power and where you're getting your validity and things from. So that's what you typically see before the engine hits failure and we get to see it.And so from that emotional intelligence standpoint, you're thinking about really self-control. In emotional intelligence it's called “impulse control.” Can you have a desire, and understand it, and then make the right decision? That's one of the fifteen subsets that we look at. And if you look at people in ministry, it's so easy to get away with so many things for too long of a time, and it really comes back to [unintelligible] Scripture because [unintelligible] until it's too late. So I think impulse control is real big, again in EQ, for the church to say, “Hey, you can spend time alone with this person, you could charge this to the credit card, you could do a lot of things [unintelligible] and they're going to believe what you say.” [Overlapping voices][52:43] JONATHAN: So even in thinking about each of those ones you've just given us for children (or parenting, rather), workplace, church, it's interesting because all of those, I'm just thinking on the side of this in terms of protecting yourself—not protecting yourself in terms of I want to get away with this, but I want to prevent not having empathy. I want to be able to listen to someone and interpret and relay it back correctly to them. I want to be able to have impulse control. Those all involve, I mean, they are skills of the individual, but at the same time, it requires the assistance of others, I think. It's a very communal—which, of course, emotional intelligence is about relating with others and self. And so it's interesting in thinking about the way you've described or given those examples how much, if you're setting up safeguards or even beyond safeguards you're actually wanting to grow and develop in those skills, it requires community, it requires other around you who are committed to the same goals, so to speak. So in your work, do you—sorry, this is like bucketing rain our here. A hurricane is coming to Athens. Are you—do you encourage people to work these things out, to develop these skills, within a communal setting, accountability levels? And my power's just gone off. We're still connected, so we'll just keep going.[54:42] CLAY: Absolutely. I think the—I would encourage every person to have a communal component to every phase of emotional intelligence [unintelligible]. The assessment piece, you can take one by yourself on your computer and get a score and never share it with anyone what you scored and it would never be as effective as if you shared it.[55:05] JONATHAN: It's the navel-gazing example you gave earlier, self-help.[55:09] CLAY: We're trying to gauge our self-awareness and we're our only judges, and what have we done? So that's why when I do these assessments, my favorite one to do is the 360, because then you've got different people from all different parts of your life that are assessing you. So the assessment piece has to be in community, right? The understanding the good and the bad has to be verified in community.One of the things that we do when I take people through this coaching, especially when they come in for the 360, is to look at what we call the gap analysis. And the cool thing about the gap analysis is you'll see it on both sides of the coin. So when people say they have blind spots, what they typically means is let's say I'm a person with a blind spot. I almost always say that person thinks that they're here and they're actually here. They think they're better—which could be a blind spot. On the slip side, a blind spot is that this person thinks that he or she is here and actually they're much higher, they're here. So they have a lower self-awareness or self-image of themselves in this area than actually what's coming out of them. So you get to see both sides of the gaps. Where are you doing better than you're actually aware of and where you actually do worse? So that has to be in community.And then as you work them out and work on the skills, you're going to have to have people to work them out with and then people to let you know how you're doing. Every phase has to be in community.[56:56] JONATHAN: I'm sure people are listening to this and thinking, “I know someone who needs help with this.” Is it a subject where it's like, “Hey, I sent you a little questionnaire you can fill out to see all your blind spots”? How do you broach the subject with—is it like, “Hey, I'm working on some self-improvement stuff. Would you want to do this with me?” How do you find that others engage their colleagues, friends, family members, whatever, to see this, to have some self-awareness and bring it to the forefront without crushing them or coming across judgmental, etc.?[57:42] CLAY: Yeah, it's if you're trying to inspire—I'll use that term—someone else to do it, yeah, that's … There's not just one way, because you can have a relationship where you can say—[57:56] JONATHAN: And it depends on the person.[57:58] CLAY: Depends on the person. I will get called in to work with people who their bosses are saying, “You have to do this.” They have no choice. And then there's other people who would say, “Hey, I want to bring this up to my husband. How should I do that?” And they have to do it in a much more nuanced way. So I would definitely encourage people to get to that point where they can be honest. If you can be honest with that person, and this isn't to say, You're wrong, you're broken, you're damaged,” as much as to say, “These are skills that both of us or all of us should learn, can we do this together?” Because it's not, again, I'm certified in emotional intelligence and I teach it and coach it, but I still have to live it or I won't be emotionally intelligent. So no one arrives. You learn it, but you still have to do it. So everyone can join in. And that's what I would say the best approach to other people is to say, “Hey, let's do this together.” Because no one can say, “Hey, I hope you get to this point.”[59:13] JONATHAN: When you're like me, then you've arrived. Well, Clay, this has been such a big help for me just even in understanding the neurological things, the neurological pathways and thinking about my own mental habits that have come in play, thinking about self-awareness, other awareness. I think these are just such important factors. We see them through Scripture. We know the heart of God. We see the sovereignty of God over all things. We can have hope in Him. And just having an awareness of this, I think, helps us to serve the body, to serve the lost in such helpful ways. And so I'm grateful for your training and your expertise in this area, and I'm just grateful that you were able to take the time to join us on Candid Conversations.[01:00:13] CLAY: Glad to have done it. Thank you so much for the opportunity.[01:00:15] JONATHAN: Of course. God bless. 

In the past few years, we have seen the rise of the public debate around gender and transgender. What makes a man a man and a woman a woman? Is this a new debate or an ancient one?  Jonathan Youssef welcomes Claire and Rob Smith from Sydney, Australia to Candid Conversations. Rob Smith lectures in theology, ethics, and music ministry at Sydney Missionary & Bible College. He also serves as the Assistant Director of Ministry Training and Development for the Anglican Diocese of Sydney. He is currently undertaking doctoral studies in the theology of sex and gender.  Claire Smith is a writer and women's bible teacher. She is a nurse by background. She has a Ph.D. in New Testament from Moore Theological College and is the author of God's Good Design: What the Bible Really Says About Men and Women.  Claire and Rob are members of St. Andrew's Anglican Cathedral in Sydney and have contributed to Desiring God and The Gospel Coalition (Claire Smith and Rob Smith).To ask Jonathan a question or connect with the Candid community, visit https://LTW.org/CandidFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/candidpodInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/candidpodTwitter: https://twitter.com/thecandidpod

In this episode of Candid, Jonathan welcomes Tyler Van Halteren, a man with a deep-rooted commitment to enriching the lives of children and youth through the power of Christian faith and storytelling. Tyler, a Master's Divinity graduate from the Master's Seminary, has dedicated most of his life to sharing Christ's teachings and the Bible's wisdom through storytelling.From serving as an Associate Pastor at Gorrie Bible Fellowship in his home country of Canada to teaching at Phnom Penh Bible School in Cambodia, Tyler's journey has been one of service and exploration. But the profound impact of 20-minute bedtime stories on his son sparked an innovative idea in him - why not blend the charm of bedtime stories with enduring lessons from the Bible?Taking up this challenge, Tyler founded Lithos Kids in 2020. His venture was no less than a mission to transform the world through biblically faithful and beautifully illustrated children's books. The launch of his first book, Little Pilgrim's Big Journey, on Kickstarter was a resounding success, exceeding its funding goal by 500%. It quickly became a treasured children's book, and Little Pilgrim's Big Journey, Volume 2, and Volume 3 was released shortly after.Now, as a father and an author, he continues his mission from southern Ontario, Canada, where he resides with his growing family. Join us as we dive into this inspiring journey with Tyler, discussing the importance of spiritual mentorship, the creative process behind his illustrated books, and his vision for instilling Christian values in young minds.This is an episode you don't want to miss, especially if you're a parent, an educator, or anyone interested in spiritual growth and innovative approaches to faith-based education. Be sure to tune in!Books by Tyler Van Halteren:Little Pilgrim's Big Journey Volume 1Little Pilgrim's Big Journey, Volume 2Little Pilgrim's Big Journey, Volume 3Kingdom of God Storybook BibleTo ask Jonathan a question or connect with the Candid community, visit https://LTW.org/CandidFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/candidpodInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/candidpodTwitter: https://twitter.com/thecandidpodTRANSCRIPT:This transcript recounts Candid Conversations with Jonathan Youssef Episode 252: How 20 Minutes Can Impact Your Child's Spirituality: Tyler Van Halteren (Reprise)JONATHAN: Tyler, thank you so much for taking the time to be on Candid Conversations.[02:28] TYLER: Yeah, thanks, Jonathan. It's a joy to be here.[02:31] JONATHAN: Well, tell us a little bit about your background, upbringing, and then we'll transition into how you got into writing and producing kids' literature. [02:43] TYLER: By God's grace, I came from a Christian home. But one of the most significant moments, and I guess most relevant moments to this interview, was when I was beginning to explore the faith more seriously, not just walking in my parents' shoes but actually considering the weight of eternity, heaven, hell, my own faith, my own walk with God, and in that time I found an old 1975 version of Pilgrim's Progress, paperback, 95 cents, that was given to my dad when he was about that age, about 15, and it just sat on the shelf. So I picked it up, read it, and that's the first memory that I have of understanding the Christian life and wanting to follow Christ. That's the first book I remember reading in that season.So that led, by God's grace, to a hunger for His Word, for sharing His Word, and then through various camps I had a great experience in high school. Our Christian high school was connected to a children's camp. And so I was able to teach there and saw a measure of gifting, a desire to teach, and then went on to Master's Seminary and then to youth pastor Cambodia. In the midst of all that, had some kids along the way and then started brewing some of these book ideas.[04:07] JONATHAN: Tell me ... You just sort of lobbed Cambodia into that history. Tell us a little bit about that. [04:18] TYLER: Yeah, for about 10 years before that, my goal and desire and prayer was to go into missions. And so we set the course for that through seminary, and then even as I joined my church there was a sense of telling them we're going to be here five years and then we want to be sent out to the mission field. So we went. The goal was to teach the Bible at a Bible school there to college students. Had some other cool opportunities, like with some friends had started children's programs, so I'd go to villages and there would be 30 kids that would just show up, 30 or 40 Buddhist kids would just come. And they listened to some English teaching, some Bible teaching, and just really neat.But in the midst of all that, COVID happened and that shut a lot of missions down. But thankfully I was able to finish the Little Pilgrims book during that time. And then also during that time, I started having some significant health issues and that sort of ended up—a variety of numbness and extreme fatigue that kind of landed us back in Canada, but trusting God's providence in all that and encouraged now to see there are some of our books being translated into already in Spanish, but some being considered for the Cambodian language, Khmer language. So there is French, Vietnamese, so encouraged to see how God's continuing that missionary desire through these books.[05:44] JONATHAN: Unbelievable. Okay, so you've shared with us that it was Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress that set you on a particular path. I'm assuming that's the connection to wanting to retell it through a child's perspective. Tell us a little bit about how those pieces came together.[06:08] TYLER: Yeah, it was a neat few things that came together. So I've always had an entrepreneurial bent, always a desire for that. Buying and selling, doing different things. Little businesses on the side. And that gave a skill set that when my son was about three or four I started looking for, oh, is there a good children's version of Pilgrim's Progress? And at the time when I looked around, the only version was a 1985 one, Dangerous Journey. I bought that, opened it, and it was the first time I've opened a book and my son has sort of screamed and cried in terror at the illustrations. The illustrations were so—[06:53] JONATHAN: I have been there. Especially for a three- and four-year-old.[07:00] TYLER: Yes, absolutely terrifying. [07:01] JONATHAN: Here's the Christian faith, my child.[07:05] TYLER: Yeah, I saw that, and I thought, Okay, there's got to be a way to do a better version, especially for younger kids.[07:13] JONATHAN: I will say, I have seen one of the—I think it's more for teenage readers, maybe, and it is very graphic. Apollyon the dragon is very scary and menacing. And you're right, there's a lot—I mean, that's the way Bunyan wrote it, right? I mean, it is dramatic, very. But when you're thinking about little ones, you've got to tone some of that down so they're not actually terrified but wrestling with the core issues. And I feel like your book does that so well.[07:46] TYLER: Yeah, that was a real delight and surprise. I was writing with my son, three or four years old, in mind. And we read it 20, 30 times together in the process of writing it, and that was all super fun as we got new illustrations and as we pieced things together to see his excitement and to see things, Gospel truths click for him in that journey. But I'm coming into this somewhat naïve in a sense. I had no real understanding of the publishing industry and just had this goal. Write this as well as I can, with really great illustrations, for my four-year-old son. And then for whatever reason, the Lord's taken that, and it seems to have hit that target with a lot of families who say similar things, that these truths are connecting in a special way.[08:40] JONATHAN: Well, and let's talk about that. So as a parent, it is hard to find really good—and I know it's out there and I've got a lot of them. But there's not a lot of really great Christian children's books. It's either for an age up, as we just talked about, or it's kind of delves into more of a moralistic, you know, do this, behave this way, obedience—which are true things, but there are so many better, deeper truths that we need to expose our kids to. I think there's a longing of parents—I mean, I hear it from moms all the time, “Hey, if you can think of a kids' book and write it, like go for it.” Because there's a real need for that, especially at those young, really vulnerable ages, age category.[09:44] TYLER: Yeah, and we've seen a growing hunger in people, and through our social media and connecting with different people that there is this real longing for those kind of resources, and that's been an exciting part, too, seeing how much this has resonated with parents, this kind of idea. And there's other publishers that are doing some really great, like probably in the last five years really there's been almost a resurgence of good, solid books, Gospel-centered books. But before that it was pretty dismal, and that was about the time I started writing was when I was looking around and saying, “Okay, how do we get really good Gospel-centered books that hit the core of these issues for kids?”And the fun part of that has been the allegory idea of Bunyan's allegory and seeing how much that's resonated with people.[10:30] JONATHAN: So let's talk about just the impact I mean, it's obviously a tradition within ... it's been around forever, right? Either storytelling with your children before bed, or at a particular time, and just the impact that that has of, one, reading, just reading comprehension, storytelling, kids' abilities to have an imagination and picture things. Have you done any kind of research into that I mean, even in your own life and seeing the way that it relates with your own children?[11:09] TYLER: Yeah, that's one of the cool things, I think, for a lot of families, the question of family discipleship, family devotions, those kind of things come up, and it's challenging in our day and age. Generally, we're pretty busy people and probably more busy than we need to be, so it's hard to set aside a time. And sometimes it's hard to get kids that aren't wiggling during that time, or moving around, or asking, “Okay, when is it over? When is it over?”[11:36] JONATHAN: You need to draw them in, right?[11:38] TYLER: Yeah. So for my personal life it was bedtime. They kids knew, okay, we can read. It became part of the routine. And they are also glad because that time they're winding down and they know they're not going to bed yet, so they're getting a little extension. And so that just became a very simple, practical tool for me. Hey, maybe I can't do X, Y and Z with my kids, but 15 minutes before bed, that's a pretty easy thing to do. And I'm seeing how that impacted my son was a real treat and a joy.I'm thinking of our book, seeing Christian by the cross, his burden falling off, and him saying to  me, “Yeah, God ...” Or “Dad, that's what God does. He removes our burden of sin.” I remember reading David Helms' Big Picture Bible, and him seeing Jesus on the cross and saying, “I want to follow Jesus. I want to be saved from my sin. I want to know Jesus.” [12:42] JONATHAN: That's an iconic scene, isn't it? Bunyan's ... I mean, even people who haven't read the book are at least somewhat familiar with the scene of his burden falling off his back as he stands at the cross. It's such a picturesque scene. You have talked about how he's recognizing some of these things. What are the other things that are coming through the eye of the child as parents and grandparents are probably listening to this and thinking about we're trying to help formulate in our children and what they're getting from those 15 minutes before bed.[13:23] TYLER: Yeah, I think a big one I've seen, and I've heard from a lot of families, is the reality of death and eternity. And I can't think of many kids' books that hit that on the nose.[13:38] JONATHAN: Yeah, it's not coming up with regularity, that's for sure.[13:40] TYLER: Yeah, yeah. So that's not been dodged or snuck in. But reality is ... Yeah, people die. Kids are wrestling with some of these hard truths. They have some of these hard questions and they want answers to them. And so having this, again, the beauty of allegory are these spiritual truths told through images. The River of Death, the idea of someone crossing the River of Death, the sorrow of that and yet the joy of that for believers who enter the king's city, the celestial city.I've heard some very, very sweet stories from people and gotten emails that have brought me to tears where someone's reading this with their child. Their child is going through cancer and facing death, and that River of Death bringing such a comfort both to the child, the parents, siblings. And for us, when we were in Cambodia, my son would bring that up often. Because we'd left family behind and now we're going on this journey, in a sense, and that's all done in light of eternity. So these metaphors of the celestial city and living for the king's kingdom and things like that were all very helpful.And then one other story from Cambodia, which was seeing the surprise in Cambodian parents, and especially dads, that I would read to my kids for 15 minutes before bed. To me, it seemed like an obvious things. To them, it was very foreign, in literally true sense. But they were surprised. “You do that with your kids?”And I said, “Oh, you don't?”[15:20] JONATHAN: Culture shock there.[15:21] TYLER: Yeah, and they said, “No, no. They go to bed when they go to bed, and we're not too involved with that.”I said, “Oh, you should try it.” And some of them... one of the pastors could speak English, and I gave him some copies of the book. And he read it and I remember since we've left he messaged me saying, “We still do that every night. We still read to our daughter before bed. And we've gone through these books these many times and thank you for this.”I just thought that was a neat way the Lord used that.[15:53] JONATHAN: So you started with a Kickstarter fundraiser and you blew through your numbers on that. Tell us a little bit about that.[16:02] TYLER: Yeah, so again this was all kind of a leap of faith and partly the way God's wired me, willing to take a risk in that sense. So let people know this book was coming out and just kind of asked friends and family to share as widely as they could on social media and kind of leading towards this Kickstarter. So we launched, and then I was just absolutely shocked as it was within the first hour we far surpassed our initial goal. And just watching the numbers just sort of fly in was a shock and delight.[16:43] JONATHAN: It looks like you got about 500 percent of your funding. So if you were wondering if that was a need for people, that certainly made its case.[16:56] TYLER: Yes, it was awesome to see. Okay, we put all this work in and got it ready, and then, oh yes, this does resonate with other people. Other people are hungry for this kind of thing. And we've seen that tenfold since then.[17:08] JONATHAN: You've talked about how Bunyan's use of allegory helps bring forth great truths through imagery and picture. Parents are always trying to communicate the Gospel in a way for children at different ages and stages to understand. But sometimes we parents can sometimes if they don't have theological degrees like you and I, they can be overwhelmed—though having a theological degree doesn't necessarily help you in this category. It's not like how to teach children is one of the classes we get.But how do you take complex truths and break them down for children? This is one of the primary ways of doing that. But just for you as a dad of young ones, what are some of the other methodologies that you use for breaking that down for kids, big concepts that come, whether it's through Scripture or spiritual conversation or whatever it is. What other methodology do you use in an effective way?[18:21] TYLER: Yeah, yeah. A lot of at least homeschoolers talk about living books, like this idea of living books being an engaging way to teach ideas. And that's for anything—science, et cetera—to children. And allegories present this idea of a living book, which means truth is coming through in a very natural sort of conversational way. And again, I feel like Bunyan is just the master of that. So what a privilege to follow in his footsteps and to—[18:50] JONATHAN: And a good thing he was in prison, right?[18:53] TYLER: He had a very vivid imagination, and the results of just certain scenes ... And he had such a deep theology and understanding of God's Word. So I love in Part 2, which is less known (his original Part 2) there's a scene where they're walking by the cross with Great-heart, and it just goes into four or five pages on pretty technical like substitutionary atonement. But he does it in a way that's so helpful and clear, and so I loved when I was going through Part 2 to take a piece of that and just simplify it. They just go at the cross and it's a very clear explanation of what it means that the King's Son died in our place. He took our sin. He gave us his righteousness. And then that, combined with different images of Christian's filthy clothes are removed, his burden is removed. So things like that I found super helpful. And then another big piece is that kids, especially in this generation, are visual, becoming increasingly more visual learners, so that's our big slogan, Biblically Faithful, Beautifully Crafted. And the idea is to have these really vivid, beautiful illustrations that draw kids in.[20:19] JONATHAN: But they aren't too graphic.[20:20] TYLER: Yes, yes. That are age appropriate. And then also to have text that's sort of clear, deep but simple and not overwhelming, and to pair that up well. We visited a friend's house, and they had their range of kids from two to seven, and they had all the books out. They said, “We swear we're not just...”[20:44] JONATHAN: Not for you.[20:45] TYLER: “... because you're here.”[20:48] JONATHAN: It's normally like this. Well, you'd find that at our house, too. We've got both book 1 and 2 wide open on some page.[20:55] TYLER: That's awesome. And I will see them, just the kids were flipping through the pictures. Like they couldn't read yet, but—[21:03] JONATHAN: But they can remember the story associated with the picture, yeah.[21:08] TYLER: And they just loved flipping through it and looking. And they stare at all the details. And so I think that's another aspect that I found very helpful is just these vivid images in books.[21:18] JONATHAN: Apart from story time with your kids, are there rhythms or patterns or activities that you try and work in to family time that you've found successful at your home?[21:34] TYLER: Yeah, I wish I could have more to say. The story book has sort of been my big main one. The other was—[21:42] JONATHAN: And your big emphasis for sure.[21:44] TYLER: But the other has been sort of the Deuteronomy type of while you are going, while you are walking by the way to instruct your kids in these things. So where he's just saying, “Write it on your doorstops. Write it on ...” Like everywhere you're going, just have these moments. So where kids are inquisitive, kids ask. It's a crazy amount of questions per day, I think when you actually ... when you've done studies of that, I'm sure.But if you're feeding them these biblical things, then they're going to have questions about biblical things that come up naturally. Which was another little piece. I mean, like maybe my dad [unintelligible] or something. We'd always have at nighttime, it would be like, “Oh, you can watch a show, but it's going to be a Bible show.”I know different families have different rhythms and some don't like shows and some like shows. But first it was an easy switch to just say, “You want to watch Paw Patrol. Instead, let's watch something else.” And a lot of those ended up being moralistic, as we kind of said. But at least it's touching on biblical things.[22:51] JONATHAN: Well, and you're able to elaborate from that and helpfully redirect them towards a cross-centric faith instead of a duty sort of centrism.[23:07] TYLER: Yeah, definitely. And so those have led to a neat where they're just thinking about things and things are resonating. And so my grandma had died last year, and my son said, “Can we call her?” Like after she died. “Can we video call her because I want to see God? Because she's with God.” And so I was like, oh, that's such an interesting ...[23:33] JONATHAN: He's got a deep truth with some confusion.[23:38] TYLER: “She's in the presence of God, why wouldn't she have her cell phone? We used to call her. Now can't we call her now?” So then you just have these neat opportunities when you're just there. There's the input, intentional biblical input, and then they're going to be inquisitive, asking questions through the day as we experience ... “Why does this family do that? Why does my friend have a mom but no dad around?” Or “Why does this cousin not believe in Jesus?” and things like that.[24:12] JONATHAN: Yeah. Having kids keeps you on your toes. And if you're a believing family, then there's a lot of questions that I think even the greatest of us could stumble over and so you really need to be filling your own mind with helpful resources. You need to be in the Word and seeking to grow in understanding and knowledge and faith and bearing that fruit of the Spirit. There's, you know, as we kind of laughed about, I mean, kids ask a ridiculous amount of questions. And there's times where I think sometimes I'm like, “I'm done. Done answering your questions. I don't want to do this anymore.”And that's typical selfish mentality of this is about me and not you. But you know, you kind of flip the script a little bit and start thinking, Okay, this could be a really great opportunity for them. And in all their questions there's usually something underlying all of that. Fear, doubt, whatever it is. Or sometimes it is just curiosity. So it's important, I think, for parents to be as available as humanly possible, and really thinking through those things.And I think sometimes people are afraid. What if I don't know the answer? Then I'm going to fail my child, or whatever it is. And it's like, you know, kids don't think in that category necessarily. I think it's actually quite biblical to say, “You know what? You're asking really good questions. Why don't we look at this together? Why don't we kind of use this as an opportunity to show that mom and dad don't know everything, and they're seeking to grow just like you are?” So tell us a little bit about the Kingdom of God story books. This is another project that you've done. I don't know if it was before or after Little Pilgrim, Big Journey, but tell us a little bit about that.[26:12] TYLER: That was after the Pilgrim book, so that was six or seven months ago those landed. And that was a big project, and an exciting—[26:22] JONATHAN: Yeah, taking Old and New Testament, that's a big undertaking.[26:28] TYLER: That was the most challenging book I've written, obviously, because you want to do honor to God's Word and to be faithful. And initially it was going to be bird's eye overview. So I thought 70 pages and we'll touch on seven different kind of key moments that highlight the kingdom through the Bible. And then as I got into it, I said, Oh, it's still missing ... like there's something ... [26:53] JONATHAN: It's always something.[26:54] TYLER: ... in between these. And so that grew to 140, and then 280, and then all of a sudden it's—[27:01] JONATHAN: It's summer reading.[27:03] TYLER: Yeah, suddenly it's a 600-page fully illustrated 45-chapter thing. And the two big goals were one was to incorporate biblical theology, which was to have these themes that are tied through, woven through from Genesis to Revelation, and so the kingdom is one of those big themes. And there's many others. So that was an exciting challenge. And then seeing prophecies of the King to come in the Old Testament. There's so many of those. So to highlight those in a very vivid and helpful way was an exciting piece of that. And then just to give a clear understanding of God's kingdom. As Jesus said, “The Kingdom of God is now in your midst.” He said, “I have come for this purpose: to proclaim the Kingdom of God.” So if that's His understanding, He's saying, “For me to come and fulfill what God has promised is to display myself as the King of God's kingdom,” which He saw as clearly foreshadowed and set up in the Old Testament. So doing that in a kind of full way that knits. The goal was to sort of be seamless between each chapter and between each kind of scene or book. And the summary of it was God's presence, God's people, in God's place, through God's promise. And each chapter kind of has a summary in that way to connect those things.[28:28] JONATHAN: Ah, that's great. Books on the horizon. I think you have a third Pilgrim's Progress book coming out. Little Pilgrim, Big Journey, I should call it. I keep calling it Pilgrim's Progress. [28:38] TYLER: That's okay. Yeah, Part 3, which I'm excited about, it's about the two brothers, Christian's brothers. They saw their sister cross the River of Death and the king said it was not time for them to come yet. And I thought that was kind of a neat way to extend the allegory. Because some kids have viewed it, okay, we're going across this journey and then we get to death and then it's done. And there's this bigger picture of mission and evangelism and service. So kind of a follow-up to that. This idea is the king, instead of calling them to cross the River of Death, calls them to go back to their hometown, back to the cities, to proclaim the Gospel and to proclaim that the kingdom is coming. And so these brothers go and they experience the ideas of the Great Commission, missions, evangelism.[29:29] JONATHAN: Yeah, they've taken the mantle from Evangelist.[29:34] TYLER: Yeah. Yeah, so it's kind of an exciting. As even Evangelist and Great-heart pass, they say, over the River of Death, they say, “You take my sword. You go on.” And so I think that's a neat challenge and call for kids that have professed faith in Christ now to go back to serve, to spread the Gospel to their friends. And so I'm excited about that book.And then there's also. Our tribute to Bunyan was a legacy edition of the Pilgrim's Progress, so just a full, unabridged version more geared towards adults or older kids, teens. And has kind of 150 of the vintage illustrations and it's just a real treat to read.[30:17] JONATHAN: Well, my son will be excited for the third. Because he did ask why are Christiana's brothers stuck on the other side of the river. And so I can give him good news that the third one is coming. This is great. What a helpful conversation. We're going to put links for your website and all your books in our show notes. So those of you who are listening, I do recommend these. These are just fantastic. The illustrations are beautiful, they are age appropriate. The story brings through great truths and you'll have great questions. You do have questions that you ask. My son loves asking questions, and he loves answering questions as well. And so the fact that each chapter has questions that are asked—and they're not just recalling information, but there is some application in there as well, which really kind of speaks ... You know, because kids want to have understanding and then kind of relay that back to you. So I think that's been a great tool that you guys have put together on that.[31:24] TYLER: Yeah, that's been exciting. Initially, again, God has been gracious in this whole process. Because the first book, I was getting ready to print it, and then I just kind of asked on social media, “Would anyone find questions helpful?” And there was just a ton of response, “Yes, yes, please, please.” So I put them in.[31:40] JONATHAN: 500 percent again.[31:41] TYLER: Yeah, yeah. And a lot of parents have told us, yeah, these questions at the end of every chapter is such a help in our discipleship.[31:48] JONATHAN: It's so good. So helpful. Tyler Van Halteren, I am so grateful to have met you now that I've read through your books. And I hope that they continue to be a blessing for generations, just as John Bunyan has been for many centuries. And again, thank you so much for taking the time to come and chat with us on Candid Conversations. [32:09] TYLER: Yeah, thank you.