Unlikely Conversations from the Collegeville Institute

Have you ever asked yourself: how does spiritual discernment work, practically? What are the signposts? How can I feel God's subtle nudge? In the final episode of this season, we discuss the ways that spiritual discernment practices reveal God's calling in our big and little decisions. Join our conversation with the Rev. Dr. Jane Patterson, who is Project Director of the Communities of Calling Initiative at the Collegeville Institute. Jane recently retired from Seminary of the Southwest, where she was Associate Professor of New Testament and Director of Community Care. She is a wise teacher and expert on spiritual discernment who works with congregational leaders, many of whom we've heard from this season on the podcast.

The pandemic has altered church life in ways we are still discerning. For Plymouth Church in Brooklyn, New York, the disruption dissolved lines between home life and church life, and it pushed congregational members to explore creative callings in new, innovative ways. In this episode, Journalist Eliza Gray and Pastor Brett Younger discuss the way COVID shifted their engagement and ministry in church community. Plymouth Church is one of thirteen congregations taking part in Collegeville Institute's Communities of Calling Initiative. The Communities of Calling Initiative is a five-year program that grants congregations funds to design a new project or enhance existing ministries that help Christians discover and deepen their sense of God's calling in their lives

When have you felt most alive before God? In this episode, Carol Davis Younger shares her vocational story of becoming a writer, which has deepened her spiritual journey and sense of God's presence. Through creating curriculum and hosting church writing groups centered on Scripture, she invites others in her congregation at Plymouth Church in Brooklyn, NY to use writing as a tool of discernment and as a form a prayer.

What happens when a church is called during a crisis to not just to the people in the pews, but to the families, organizations, and businesses in the neighborhood? In this episode, we speak with Meena Natarajan, Executive and Artistic Director of Pangea World Theater, and Ingrid C. A. Rassmussen, pastor at Holy Trinity Lutheran Church. Together, they tell the story of their friendship and partnership in the Longfellow neighborhood of Minneapolis following George Floyd's murder in May 2020. Pangea Theater produces community-based art and Holy Trinity is a Lutheran congregation located one block from the Third Police Precinct, which was burned during protests again police brutality in Minneapolis. Since those events, Ingrid and Meena have been meeting together with a coalition of community leaders called Longfellow Rising. Holy Trinity is one of thirteen congregations taking part in Collegeville Institute's Communities of Calling Initiative. The Communities of Calling Initiative is a five-year program that grants congregations funds to design a new project or enhance existing ministries that help Christians discover and deepen their sense of God's calling in their lives.

Music can deepen and broaden our experience of joy and grief. In this episode, Ann Schrooten speaks about her calling to serve through music, and how that vocation transformed during the pandemic and following George Floyd's murder near her church in Minneapolis, MN. She describes how the cries for justice in her community led her to ask a new question about leading music in her church. Holy Trinity is one of thirteen congregations taking part in Collegeville Institute's Communities of Calling Initiative. The Communities of Calling Initiative is a five-year program that grants congregations funds to design a new project or enhance existing ministries that help Christians discover and deepen their sense of God's calling in their lives.

How do we understand God's calling when not everyone has access to the same networks, resources, or opportunities? In this episode, practical theologian Dr. Patrick B. Reyes speaks about his new book, The Purpose Gap: Empowering Communities of Color to Find Meaning and Thrive. Reyes writes about his own childhood neighborhood, which he describes as an education desert. He flips the white, western script of individual “shining stars,” and expands our view to see calling in terms of whole constellations.

Think of a significant calling in your life. Who invited you to explore that calling? And what role did community play in that invitation? As a community, Edgewood United Church has been collectively invited by God to serve their neighbors through a specific, shared mission. In this episode, Marcia Beer and Diana Farmer speak how their community collectively discerned a common purpose. They also discuss how the pandemic disrupted and refocused their ministry in surprising ways.  Edgewood is one of thirteen congregations taking part in Collegeville Institute's Communities of Calling Initiative. The Communities of Calling Initiative is a five-year program that grants congregations funds to design a new project or enhance existing ministries that help Christians discover and deepen their sense of God's calling in their lives.  

What role does community play in understanding our individual vocation? And what happens when a pastor called to ministry starts to burn out? In this episode, Liz Miller describes how community played an essential role in her decision to become a pastor, and how sabbath rest is essential to sustaining her ministry at Edgewood United Church in East Lansing, Michigan. She also explains how the church community asks itself not who they are going to serve, but who they are called to be because of where they are located. Edgewood is one of thirteen congregations doing a deep dive into personal and communal vocation with the Collegeville Institute's Communities of Calling Initiative.

Some Christians have profound testimonies about how God has called them; but, it's not everyone's experience. More often, God calls whole communities to big things, not individuals. How can congregations invite members of all ages to embrace God's call to serve their neighbors? In this episode, Pastor Kelly Kirby and Lynn Miller from Saint Matthew's Episcopal Church in Louisville, KY tell the story of how God called their church to step out in faith and start a food ministry. They also discuss the challenges and blessings of running the food pantry during the pandemic, which became an important place of connection for youth and adults alike. St. Matthew's is one of thirteen congregations taking part in Collegeville Institute's Communities of Calling Initiative. The Communities of Calling Initiative is a five-year program that grants congregations funds to design a new project or enhance existing ministries that help Christians discover and deepen their sense of God's calling in their lives.

Vocation is often understood as what we do for work, but God calls people to more than our place of employment. Can God's calling extend to skills or hobbies like bread baking, gardening, or cake decorating? Leaders at St. Matthew Episcopal Church in Louisville, Kentucky decided to find out by inviting individuals in their church to offer a course on something they love to do. In this episode, Pastor Benjamin Hart and Professor Justin Klassen discuss how the skills sharing classes at St. Matthew's transformed their understanding of God's calling in both their personal lives and the greater church community. St. Matthew's is one of thirteen congregations taking part in Collegeville Institute's Communities of Calling Initiative. The Communities of Calling Initiative is a five-year program that grants congregations funds to design a new project or enhance existing ministries that help Christians discover and deepen their sense of God's calling in their lives.

Does the phrase "God's calling" make you tense? If so, you're not alone. Many Christians confuse calling with discovering one secret "right" path in life. When faced with multiple options and decisions, it can be paralyzing. According to Dr. Kathleen Cahalan, this individualistic view of vocation is often harmful. Instead, she advocates for returning to a more communal understanding of Christian calling where people see their callings first to be communities of faith. In this episode, Kathleen talks about her research and work to revitalize the language around vocation, equipping both individuals and congregations to experience God's calling in wider and more expansive ways. We are asking big questions about the theology of Christian calling and vocation during this season of the Unlikely Conversations podcast. Join us every other Tuesday for a new episode where host Ellie Roscher speaks with theologians, church leaders, and clergy in the Collegeville Institute's Communities of Calling Initiative about how they practice vocation as a dynamic verb rather than a static noun.

When working to undo one type of oppression, activists often see how other types of oppression intersect. Nekeisha Alayna Alexis is an Anabaptist scholar whose writing addresses issues of justice for both human and animals. In this conversation, she describes how her conviction to nonviolence evolved into her interest in co-liberation with animals and becoming a vegan. She also discusses her role in leading anti-racism efforts within the context of a seminary and why joy is at the foundation of her work.

On the surface, welcoming an immigrant seems kind. Karen Gonzalez asks Christians to look again and push deeper.  Karen Gonzalez is a writer, speaker, and immigrant advocate. She is the author of The God Who Sees: Immigrants, the Bible, and the Journey to Belong. In this conversation, Karen describes how her writing and theology has shifted since attending the 2019 Writing for Mystic Activists writing workshop at the Collegeville Institute. Writing can be a form of activism, and it can also be a way to live out a calling to collective liberation.

What compels a decorated combat veteran and former missions pastor to study mysticism at a center founded by Fr. Richard Rohr? Byron McMillan's story is one of spiritual transformation and realignment, moving from his role as pastor at an evangelical megachurch in Raleigh, North Carolina to studying at the Center for Contemplation and action in Albuquerque, New Mexico. In this podcast interview, Byron discusses his journey following a mystical Jesus. He also describes how contemplative practices, including writing, have changed his faith and outlook on the world.

Community organizing is often hard and contentious work. How can people stay committed when the world is chaotic? In this episode, writer and congregational organizer Nicholas Tangen describes how observing the natural world is connected to his work for justice within the ELCA church. Nicholas has relied on birdwatching as a spiritual practice during the pandemic and in the aftermath of George Floyd's killing in his city of Minneapolis. He also speaks about how Benedictine spirituality has been important in his work for justice.

Being a good pastor and writer means bringing one's whole self to the page, to the sanctuary, and to the community. For Wesley Morris, it also means embracing a "luminous darkness" – a phrase coined by mystic Howard Thurman – as a place of transformation.   In this conversation, Pastor Morris describes his experiences as a chaplain at Harlem Hospital and as a student at Union Theological Seminary, where he studied under Black liberation theologian Dr. James Cone and wrote a Master's thesis titled: "A Dark Faith." He also discusses his time at the 2014 Writing to Change the World Collegeville Institute workshop led by Jonathan Wilson-Hartgrove, where participants shared vulnerable writing with one another. Morris believes that writing can build bridges across our divides, allowing love to travel from one world to another. 

Editors hold a hidden yet sacred role in the publishing world. As managing editor of The Bitter Southerner, writer Josina Guess works closely with storytellers to hone their work. At times she acts as midwife to writers, helping form narratives on difficult topics like domestic violence and racism.  Before she became an editor, Josina attended three writing workshops at the Collegeville Institute, including Writing to Change the World led by Jonathan Wilson-Hartgrove in 2014, Revision, Christian Spirituality, and the Writing Life led by Lauren Winner in 2017, and Exploring Identity and (Dis)belonging through the Personal Essay led by Enuma Okoro in 2019. In this interview, Josina discusses her work as an editor, as well as her own writing on themes of race, violence, and family. Josina's posture as an activist, writer, and editor is rooted in curiosity and empathy. From her home in rural Georgia, she shares wisdom from acting and storytelling within a particular community, which she believes is the best way writers can change the world.  

What role can fellow writers play in the creative process? And how can a desire to "change the world" backfire?   In this episode we hear a conversation between two writers: Rev. Alexis Carter Thomas and Lyndsey Medford. They met at the Collegeville Institute's Writing for Mystic Activists workshop in 2019 and, since then, have continued to encourage one another in their writing lives. Here, they discuss the dangers of writing to change the world without also being changed as humans, the call for writing as liberation, and how a writing community can help one be "heard into speech."

How can writers begin to claim their own voice? And how should local communities inform both writing and organizing work? In this episode, we speak with writer, pastor, and community organizer Rev. Brandon Wrencher. Brandon is a serial innovator who pastors a network of spiritually rooted small groups through the Good Neighbor Movement, which is inspired, in part, by African hush harbors of the antebellum period and Latin American base communities. Listen to Brandon speak about his own writing journey, the importance of organizing through grassroots small groups, and why all good writing must start with your own soul.

In this episode, we continue for the second part of our conversation with Dr. Chanequa Walker-Barnes and Jonathan Wilson-Hartgrove. Writers engaged in justice work can help others expand their imagination for what is possible, yet they also need accountability, support, and spiritual growth. Where can these activists turn for mothering wisdom? Listen to Dr. Chanequa Walker-Barnes and Jonathan Wilson-Hargrove discuss the global pandemic, Black Lives Matter, and the need for spiritual mothers and fathers to guide and care for activists.

How can writers of faith participate in current justice movements? Where can activists on the frontlines of movements find the rest and relationships necessary for a sustainable writing life? And what role does community and accountability play in the lives of writers who address issues of injustice in their work? In Season 2 of the Unlikely Conversations podcast, we are listening to activists and writers of faith who are using words to change the world. Our esteemed guests in this initial episode, Dr. Chanequa Walker-Barnes and Jonathan Wilson-Hartgrove, co-led a writing workshop in 2019 through the Collegeville Institute called Writing for Mystic Activists. It was a week-long retreat centered on writing as a contemplative practice for activists and clergy, an opportunity for 12 participants to connect with a long tradition of resistance writers.

How are common sacred stories about women like Queen Esther and Rahab taught differently in Christianity and Judaism?  This final episode in this season is a lively dialogue between Rabbi Jennifer Hartman and Pastor Andrea Roske-Metcalfe. Together, they explore how they each teach and preach tricky holy passages in a way that keeps female characters complex and layered. Listen for how beautiful things can get when we dwell in the muck of messy human stories and allow women to be multi-faceted.  Note: this conversation uses adult language and addresses instances of sexual assault and stillbirth.  

How do we teach toward curiosity? How can we educate ourselves and each other around misinformation of the other? How do we build relationships today so when crisis happens we are working out of the context of knowing and being known?  Claire Shea is principal at a Catholic middle school. She is also married to a Muslim. Aaron Weininger is a Jewish Rabbi. He is also openly gay. In this episode, Claire and Aaron talk about having tough conversations in their homes and families as well as in the public sphere. Starting in their homes has helped them prioritize relationships in doing courageous work in their communities.

During the COVID-19 pandemic, we are experiencing grief on individual, communal, societal, and global levels. Faith communities are asking questions like: How can we create new ritual, often mediated through screens to grieve, celebrate and mark time?  How can faith leaders continue to offer hope, comfort and presence while being physically separated? At the same time, our country is having heated conversations about whether faith communities can safely meet in person. In this episode, which was recorded in late April, hear a conversation between two young faith leaders from the Hindu and Jewish traditions about spiritual practice during COVID-19. Neha Markanda is an executive known for global strategy, operational excellence and change management. She is also a founding teacher of HATS (Hindu American Temple School) and the Temple's Board Treasurer. Rabbi Jennifer Hartman brings a passion for Jewish education and engagement to Temple Israel in Minneapolis, where she has served as Rabbi for over 6 years.  

How can religious institutions fight against white supremacy and racism? Why do many avoid talking about race in faith communities?    In this episode, Fardosa Hassan and Genjo Conway – young faith leaders in the Muslim and Zen Buddhist communities respectively – have a frank conversation about race in interfaith spaces. This episode was recorded before the racist murder of George Floyd by police in Minneapolis, but the themes speak prophetically to this moment.

How have interfaith relations shifted in the last century? Why is there still so much religious violence in the world? And how can we know if our lives have made a difference? This episode takes a step away from the conversations between fellows to offer some history and context from two masters of multi-religious work—Rabbi Barry D. Cytron and Dr. Marty Stortz. Barry and Marty serve as co-directors of the Collegeville Institute's Multi-Religious Fellows program and have dedicated their careers to civil discourse as spiritual practice. Don't miss their wide-ranging discussion on faith and politics, the need for honest conversation, and how Judaism and Christianity approach forgiveness and reconciliation.

In this episode, hear a Muslim-Catholic dialogue about faith and action for the common good. How do our faith communities grapple with injustice and inequality? Are our financial budgets moral documents? And what do the Koran and Bible say about advocating for the oppressed?  Listen to an unlikely conversation between Tamim Saidi and Joe Kruse as they discuss social justice, economics, and the call to love in their respective Muslim and Catholic Worker communities. Tamim and Joe are Twin Cities religious leaders in the Collegeville Institute's Multi-Religious Fellows program who model friendship and collective action across religious boundaries.

In these days when young people are leaving organized religion in droves, how do our faith communities form, educate, and empower youth? And how can we build healthy, multi-religious relationships when, let's face it, they can be hard and uncomfortable? In this episode, listen to an unlikely conversation between Pooja Bastodkar and Andrea Roske-Metcalfe as they discuss the next generation in their respective Hindu and Christian communities. Pooja and Andrea are Twin Cities religious leaders in the Collegeville Institute's Multi-Religious Fellows program who model friendship across religious boundaries.

We often inhabit spaces in person and online where we only interact with folks who primarily look and think and act and practice faith like we do. Unlikely Conversations is a new podcast from the Collegeville Institute that breaks through our echo chambers by exploring civil discourse as spiritual practice. In its first season, each episode features two participants in the Multi-Religious Fellows program at the Collegeville Institute. Tune in twice a month to hear host Ellie Roscher facilitate a lively discussion between diverse Twin Cities faith leaders as they tackle thorny topics like racial justice, youth spiritual formation, and religious stereotypes. The guests on Unlikely Conversations model how to have brave and hopeful conversations in an era of religious polarization. For more info, www.collegevilleinstitute.org/podcasts