Podcasts about jenn well

This episode is especially for women (although the men may learn a little something too). My guest, Jennifer Barrett, a financial expert and author of the new book, Think Like a Breadwinner: a wealth-building manifesto for women who want to earn more (and worry less), shared some important ideas about how we can adjust our mindset to take better care of ourselves, in business and at home. If you like what you hear, we'd love it if you write a review, subscribe on Apple Podcasts and sign up for Quick Tips from Marketing Mentor. Here's the transcript: Ilise Benun When I heard the title of Jennifer Barrett's new book, I knew I had to have her on the podcast and I couldn't even wait to read the book first. It's called "Think Like a Breadwinner," and it made so much sense to me on so many levels that I am thrilled to share this conversation with you. We talked about what that breadwinner mindset is why women are not socialized to take responsibility for themselves, and the role that confidence plays in all of this. That's a thread that is woven into almost everything I'm thinking about and teaching these days. So listen, and learn. Hello, Jenn, welcome to the podcast. Jennifer Barrett Thanks so much for having me. My pleasure. I'm Jennifer Barrett, and I'm the chief Education Officer at Acorns, which is a saving and investing app with about 9 million users and counting. And I'm also the author of the new book, "Think Like a Breadwinner," which is a wealth building manifesto for women who want to earn more and worry less well. Ilise ...and who wouldn't want that? Very cool. And full disclosure. I have not read the book yet. But I can't wait to and I just wanted to have you on even before I read the book, because I love the title. And I loved your TED Talk. And I loved the conversation that we had. And I just feel like there's a lot we can talk about. Maybe after I read the book, we'll do a part two, based on what I found there. But let's begin by talking about the title of the book, think like a breadwinner, what does that mean to you? Jenn Well, thinking like a breadwinner really means making the kinds of money choices that will ensure you can support yourself throughout your life, and maybe others too. And one key element of that is investing to build wealth. And you know, for most women, we have not been taught or encouraged to invest or even really given the message of how critically important that is. So that's a big part of it. And then even, if you step back, I mean, even though more women than ever before are moving into the main earner or breadwinner role, we are still being socialized for the most part not to think of ourselves as breadwinners, as wealth builders. And that is to our detriment. So even if we end up in that role, we often feel unprepared. And either way, we're really missing out on reaching our full earning and wealth building potential, if we don't think of ourselves in those terms, and really focus on not just earning enough to pay the bills, but building enough wealth to support the lives that we want. Ilise I'm inclined to kind of use myself as the example here, and maybe tell you a little bit about my take on this from my past. Maybe you can comment and support it with some ideas, and keeping in mind that my listeners are for the most part, self employed creative professionals. One of the problems I have with a lot of the money, tips and guidance that's out there, especially for women, is that it's all about having a job and negotiating salaries. And I have a big chip on my shoulder about that. So I'm constantly trying to translate it all for the self employed woman who actually is in a position to do more than I think she would be able to do in a job. Do you agree with that? Jenn I would agree, I think that there are still some very real external barriers within corporate America to women, you know, women who are ambitious, and who want to move up the ranks, and especially if we want to do that, and also have a family. So it's not just the socialization that we get, but it's very real barriers in terms of workplace bias in terms of women being paid and promoted less and in terms of policies that really reinforce those outdated assumptions. And I think what you see and what we're seeing right now is that a lot of women are leaving corporate America and becoming solopreneurs entrepreneurs, small business owners, because there's more freedom there. There's more possibility, the sky's sort of the limit. And not only that, but what I saw when I interviewed a lot of them is that we then create the kind of companies that we wish we were a part of. We learn from our experience in corporate America, that's where we started. And we try to do better when we create our own company. So I think a lot of these women led companies are really leading the way in creating a more inclusive workplace culture and a better balance between life and work and will ultimately create a model that I hope the rest of corporate America follows in the future. Ilise So I may have said this -- I am totally unemployable. First, it was because I just don't like other people telling me what to do. Then, eventually, after now, 33 years of being self employed, I'm to a point where nobody can match my salary and the potential for what I can earn, the sky's the limit. I mean, that is the reality if I wanted to focus on that. And yet, here's the interesting thing: in my opinion, after 33 years supporting myself, I'm not married, I have no kids, I have a dog, she's not all that expensive. I have a lot of freedom. And yet, it wasn't until maybe five years ago, that it occurred to me that I really got that I can take care of myself. In other words, I had been taking care of myself for, let's say, 28 years. But still, in the back of my mind, there was always this, "Oh, someone else should take responsibility for x." There wasn't even a person there. But there's this fantasy that someone else is supposed to take care of me. So when I think about my past, and growing up, it was certainly my father who taught me -- I remember very clearly watching him pay the bills, write those checks. He would let me write everything but his signature. And so I kind of learned, and I remember getting my first checkbook. And yet and I still did not get the message that I will be able to take care of myself, even though I was learning some of the practical skills. So respond to that, if you would. Jenn Yeah. And I'd be curious to hear more about what happened five years ago to to shift your mindset around that. But to answer your question, I think and I experienced this myself growing up is, there's a lot of research around how parents speak differently to their girls than to their boys, and the kinds of conversations they have tend to center more around budgeting and spending smartly. I think you can even include paying the bills and managing a budget. And they speak more to their boys about building credit and building wealth. Those are critical skills for everyone. And this is not to play down the importance of being able to manage a budget. But managing a budget is only one piece of it, right? What I'm talking about with the breadwinning mindset is so much more expansive. It's not just about paying the bills, it's about asking yourself, "what kind of life do I want? And what do I need to do in order to afford it?" You know, if you're in a career, it's asking, "what kind of income? What career path do I need in order to make the kind of income to support the life I want?" If you're starting a business, it's asking, "how am I going to bring in the revenue I want to? And how is this business going to allow me to have the life the lifestyle that I want? And how am I going to build wealth on the side in order to ensure that I can cover our midterm goals, retirement, all of these things?" I think when you're self employed, those are even bigger questions, because it's really on your shoulders, it's all on your shoulders, paying taxes, saving for retirement, saving for midterm goals. All of that really rests on your shoulders. And so you need to be that much more proactive. But I think most of us just weren't brought up to think about money that way, to think about wealth building, to think about what is the career path? Or what is the business I want to start that will generate the revenue to support the life that I want. And so it often takes a while before that clicks into place. And to your point, you know, I don't think we're like waiting around for Prince Charming to save us anymore, necessarily. But if you look at the data out there on women and money: women invest less and later and we save less than men. We have more credit card and student loan debt. And we have lower credit scores. I could go on, you know, the gender wage gap is 18%. The gender wealth cap is 68%. So you look at those numbers, and it's hard not to think, "are we waiting for someone to rescue us," because we are often not making the kinds of financial choices that will allow us to support ourselves throughout our lives. So there is I think there is something very deep in our subconscious. And a lot of that comes from the cultural conditioning that we have gotten, which has said women's income is less important, which has said the man will be the breadwinner, which has said the prescription is, get a job, get a career, maybe start a small business, get married, save a little for a rainy day, save for retirement -- but it leaves out all the decades in between. So I would say we shouldn't blame ourselves for that, because a lot of this really is the way that we have been socialized to think of ourselves in relation to money. And it takes a real conscious effort, if that is the way that you have been brought up. And it's been reinforced by pop culture to recognize that and then shift your mindset to believe, "I am capable of doing this, I am a wealth builder, I am a breadwinner, I am a successful business owner," to reinforce those beliefs and take some conscious reconditioning sometimes. Ilise I have so many thoughts. I'm just gonna choose one. Because I've been thinking a lot about the role of confidence in all of this, and to say, "just shift your mindset to become a wealth builder," easier said than done, obviously. And so what I'm thinking about is what's the role of confidence? And in my own personal experience, it's taking actions and building skills, that bring the confidence that build the confidence. It doesn't come from just thinking a certain way. And so that got me thinking, I was trying to remember when I put my first $100, in my Fidelity SEP IRA. I couldn't even find it on the website. It's been that long, but nobody told me to do that. I only had two jobs and none of them had an IRA or any kind of retirement plan associated with it. So I don't even know why, at a certain point, I decided to just start putting $100 a month into a SEP IRA. But I do remember, I had a client, I was doing bookkeeping for him, he was a psychiatrist. And he had Fidelity Contrafund, and I was like, "Okay, well, he's making money at that, I'm gonna do that." And so I just started putting $100 into Contrafund, and for years and years it's been building. Jenn So like, what is that action also? And where is the confidence, like, "Yes, I can build a business and save for retirement at the same time, not all of my money has to go to the same thing." 100%, I agree with you. And I think to your point, when we just start implementing those habits, even if we're saving a little bit, investing a little bit at a time, it starts to build our confidence. So one of the most important things is just to get in the game, is just to start investing, it's less important, what you're investing in. And I always say, if you are feeling intimidated about the stock market, and I think a lot of people, men and women, still are, but you see that more in women than in men, then just to invest in an S&P 500 index funds. That gives you exposure to 500 of the biggest companies that represent more than 80% of the total market value. So you're basically in many ways, investing in the market itself -- one investment in one fund over time that has returned about 10% per year on average, or seven to seven and a half if you take inflation into account. And that is a nice rate of return. So if you do nothing else, start there. And I think, to your point, when you start investing, and you start to see that money growing, it has a really incredible effect on your psyche and your confidence. Because there's something about actually seeing the numbers and seeing your wealth grow, that will increase your confidence, that will increase your sense of security, all of these emotional benefits to it. And we see this in Acorns, too. So at Acorns, people can start investing with their change literally -- we will you connect your card and you use your card and we round up your purchases, take the change, and when it hits $5 we invest that for you. And so people who start there, and there are a lot of people who do start there, invest about 30 to $35 a month on average. So we're talking about around $400 a year but what we find is that they start there, and then after a few months, usually when the market is going up which it has been for the most part for you know several months now, their confidence builds and they start adding more. So they add $5, $10. And then they continue to increase their contributions. I think that's actually the way it works for a lot of people, if we're a little tentative about jumping in. So the most important thing is to just get started and get in the habit so that every time you have a new client, for example, you're automatically thinking, "Okay, I need to take this amount, from whatever payment I get to put toward taxes, and I need to take this amount to put toward my investments." A SEP IRA is a great vehicle because you can deduct those contributions. So it helps you in more than one way, you know, you're already building your wealth, and you're saving money for retirement, but you're also saving money on your tax bill. Ilise Excellent. I want to give you more time to tell us more about what's in the book in terms of the actual strategies that people can use and implement. So what would you say? Where else would you go with that? Jenn So I took the the breadwinning mindset, and I used it as a filter to look at kind of every aspect of our finances. And one place to start is credit. I think anyone who's ever taken a loan out for their business is well aware of the importance of having good credit, in order to get the best terms. But again, the way that credit has been marketed to everyone, but really predominantly to women, since we are tend to make most of the consumer decisions and the household, is that credit is a way to close the gap between the life that you can afford and the life that you want. And that is such a dangerous message. But what the breadwinner mindset would say is looking at credit as a way to get the best terms on the loan that you will want to invest in something that you think will increase in value. So for example, looking at your credit cards as a way to build your credit score, so that when you get a mortgage or business loan, you'll get the best terms. I have some research in the book that shows that if you have the highest range credit scores and can get the best terms, that can save you over $42,000 over the course of a traditional 30 year mortgage loan for an average priced home. That is significant when you think about building wealth and the kind of money that you can set aside $42,000 makes a huge difference, especially if you're able to invest that money versus paying it in interest. Same goes for a business loan. So having a higher credit score actually makes a huge difference. You can also leverage credit cards to actually make money once you are comfortable paying off your credit card bill every month, you can start using credit cards to get cash back to get rewards points. You know, there are fantastic deals on some of these business credit cards. But it's a different way of looking at credit. It's really like you don't want to pay for the privilege of using the card. You want to leverage credit to actually make money and build wealth. So that's one area. The other area, again, is looking at investing from day one as a way to decrease your dependence if you are in a regular job, to decrease your dependence on paycheck. And building wealth on the side is a way to give you that cushion that could allow you to leave a corporate job and start your own business. In fact, last night, I did an event with Luminary and Kate, who is the founder and CEO of Luminary, was telling me that she had been investing for the goal of having a child. They were going through a lot of fertility treatments and she had saved aside all this money and they ended up not having a child. But she had all this money, so she used the money to start Luminary. So it's really thinking about building wealth to support the goals that you might have in the future and to give you the freedom of choice. Right. And that's a very different way of looking at it. Same with savings. I mean, I think we often think of savings and it's been sort of pitched us as like saving for an upcoming purchase like a expensive handbag or a getaway with our girlfriends, which is not to say that those aren't wonderful things to save for too. But savings is so much more than that. It's like having savings is having peace of mind, it's giving you choice. It's knowing for example, if you have savings, if you suddenly get a tax bill, if you underestimated what you need to pay, having that savings there gives you that security that you're going to be okay. If you're starting a business and oh my god -- the pandemic. I mean, some people lost 50 - 80% of their revenue in the pandemic. Having savings allows you to ride those times and so your business will be okay and you'll be okay. So it's so important to just think about all those different areas of your finances as really supporting the life you want and giving you as many choices as you can have in the future. Ilise Actually the last line of your TED Talk is the one that I told you I was going to be quoting you immediately, because it has a corollary in my work. So you said, "There is nothing more empowering than being able to bring the future you want to life. And to know you have the savings and the wherewithal to walk away from any situation you don't want." So I translated that to, "There is nothing more empowering than being able to bring the business you want to life. And to know that you have the marketing in place, and the pipeline, and the wherewithal to walk away from any client or project you don't want." What do you think of that? Jenn I love that. I love that so much. I really do. I think that's so important. And the book is not necessarily written for entrepreneurs and small business owners. But I think the lessons apply. And if you translate the breadwinning mindset to an entrepreneurial mindset, it really is having the confidence that you can do this, that you have the skills that you have the pipeline, and you have the marketing capabilities to weather these storms. And I mean honestly, there's nothing more powerful than being able to say no to a client, to be able to walk away from a client who's toxic. I mean, I've talked to so many people who have businesses and feel like when they're starting, they have to put up with so much. But as they start to build their business, build their wealth, they say, "This is an amazing, this is an amazing moment for me when I can say no to a client who's just a pain in my butt and I don't want to have to deal with them." That's a wonderful feeling to be in that builds confidence. That by itself, I think, can build confidence. Yeah. Cuz think about how you'll show up the next time you're negotiating with a client when you know that you can walk away. I mean, that's the first rule of negotiation, right? Yep, the most effective way to negotiate is knowing in your mind that you can walk away, and it gives you so much leverage in a conversation and negotiation. Ilise Alright, my last question for part one of our conversation. I think a lot of people want to talk about talking about money, because that's something I teach, I have a new presentation, actually, I'm giving a version of it tonight, called "Show Me The Money: Learn to love the money conversation," because I think one of the ways people, not just women, men and women I see, get in their own way is just by not bringing it up in the first place. So do you have any tips from the book or from your own experience about talking about money? Jenn Well, number one is talk about it. To your point, I think that we often feel shame, or embarrassment, or whatever it is, especially when we have questions about money, how to invest or things that we think we ought to know. But in reality, you know, very few people in this country get a really solid financial education. It's not part of the curriculum in most schools. So a lot of people have a lot of questions well into their career. And so there's no shame in asking questions. So that's important. But the other aspect of this, especially if you have your own business, is to talk to other business owners and get a sense of what they're charging and have those conversations. I mean, it's sort of the equivalent, you know, in our careers, when I've talked to other people about what they're earning, what their income is, and boy are those eye opening conversations. And it's so powerful. I was just thinking yesterday about a string and one of my network networking groups about getting paid to speak. I had been trying to decide what to charge and that string was eye opening. The range was like zero to 10, on what people were charging, and it was not necessarily a reflection of experience, or the amount of times you've spoken or your platform. It was really a lot of times about what you asked for. And having read that entire string, now I know this, this spectrum, the range, and I know how to have that conversation, I felt so much better equipped to negotiate the next talk that I was asked to give. That was hugely powerful. I'm thinking of one friend in particular and I include her in the book. She holds these workshops to help others run strong PR firm, to help other business owners with negotiations. But even you know, she did some work for me and she said, "I hope you don't mind, but she's like, honey, I got to get paid. Like I got bills. I'll give you a friend discount. But I got to get paid." And I thought I would never ask you to do work and not pay you. You know, but I think you can have those conversations, even in a case like that where you're working with a friend, and they say, I love you, but I got to get paid. Ilise Well, my take on the friends and family discount is they should pay more because they know how much you're worth and they want to support you. Jenn I told her that too. I said I'm willing to pay full price, more than willing because you're exactly right, they know more than anyone how talented you are and they will want to support that. I completely agree. But I also think it is just so important to remember, you need to get paid, you need to get paid what you're worth, there's no way around it. And there's nothing wrong with saying, "I want to make a lot of money," I definitely want to make a lot of money, I'm very open about it, I want to make a lot of money so I can have the impact I want to have in the world, so I can have the life I want. And, you know, I think a lot of times, we don't talk about that enough. There's this weird shame around saying, especially as a woman, that you want to make a lot of money. And we need to get over that. And I would say -- and then I'll get off my horse about this -- But when we talk about venture capital, I've talked to so many female entrepreneurs, and they tell me that one of the things that drives them nuts when they're raising money is that there's almost this idea of like, it's charity to put money into a female led company right now. It's like, "we ought to do it to help female entrepreneurs." That is such BS! Invest in the company because we will make money and we will make you money. That's why you invest in a company. We're not a charity. And we have every intention of making a lot of money. And so it's even reshaping the conversation around that to like, the reason you should invest in a female led business is because we have a higher rate of success. And we are just as ambitious and talented as male founders. Not because there's some quota to fill, or because you feel like oh, I need to support female founders, but because you actually see the value in what we're doing. Ilise All right, that would be the perfect place to put the bookmark. But I did think of one other question that I want to ask you is: Do you have a favorite female personal finance "guru" that you recommend people listen to or read? Jenn Well, it's hard to read her, but she does have a blog, but my mom is my, she really is my hero. We talk all the time about money and investments. She will call me when she makes a good investment and makes money. So we have that kind of relationship where she says, I'm so glad I can call you and tell you about this money I made today with Baidu or Amazon or whatever.  She has a background and a PhD in accounting. And she actually takes the time to read all these reports that companies put out and look for opportunities. That is not something that most people have the time to do, but I admire her for more than that. She is self taught and really started managing the finances after my parents were divorced. And she got remarried. And has didn't start quite from scratch, but almost and has built a really impressive portfolio in stocks and bonds and in real estate. So I have so much admiration for what she's been able to do. And she also gives just incredibly solid advice. She is the person who takes the time to research everything. And she's at Profpat.com She has a blog, and she writes mostly for people who are near or in retirement. That's her focus right now because she is retired. She was an accounting professor for many years. Ilise So interesting. And just funnily my mother also spends what sounds like all of her spare time reading all those reports and watching the stock market. She doesn't have an accounting degree, actually, so she is also self taught, and I think has been doing it probably for the last 10 years. But that's what she seems to have devoted her life to -- is teaching herself how to take care of herself -- she's now in her 80s. Jenn That is amazing. That's so inspiring. And I think they would get along very well. Ilise Yes. All right. So tell the people where they can find you online, also in your book. Jenn Sure. Well, I'm at JenniferBarrett.com. I'm on all the social platforms and feel free to reach out. And the book is "Think like a breadwinner" and it's available anywhere you buy books. Ilise Awesome. I can't wait to get mine. Okay, so thank you, Jenn. And we will definitely have to have a part two. That sounds great. Transcribed by https://otter.ai  

Have you thought to yourself... I really want to fuck JENN? Well here are the clues to find your way to my vagina...

Let's Talk about Erectile Dysfunction... On this week's episode of the Lunch and Learn with Dr. Berry we have Dr. Jennifer Miles-Thomas, she is a Diplomate of the American Board of Urology and is also board certified in Female Pelvic Medicine and Reconstructive Surgery. As we continue the push the message and focus on men's health I wouldn't be truthful to the audience if I didn't stress the importance of sexual health. I talked about this before but as an outpatient clinical specialist, one of the top 2 reasons why men would come to see me for an appointment was either someone was dragging them to the office or erectile dysfunction complaints. Sexual health refers to a state of well-being that lets a man fully participate in and enjoy sexual activity and there is a range of physical, psychological, interpersonal, and social factors that influence a man's sexual health. I talked about this before but as an outpatient clinical specialist, one of the top 2 reasons why men would come to see me for an appointment was either someone was dragging them to the office or erectile dysfunction complaints. Dr. Jenn walks us through her decision to become a urologist, one of few African American women to hold the title, and we get into the importance of sexual health, opening up about erectile dysfunction and all of the different treatment options associated with the disease. Remember to subscribe to the podcast and share the episode with a friend or family member. Listen on Apple Podcast, Google Play, Stitcher, Soundcloud, iHeartRadio, Spotify Sponsors: Lunch and Learn Community Online Store (code Empower10) Pierre Medical Consulting (If you are looking to expand your social reach and make your process automated then Pierre Medical Consulting is for you) Dr. Pierre's Resources - These are some of the tools I use to become successful using social media Links/Resources: Dr. Jennifer Website Dr. Jenn's IG Urology Care Foundation Mayo Clinic Foundation American Urological Association Social Links: Join the lunch and learn community – https://www.drberrypierre.com/joinlunchlearnpod Follow the podcast on Facebook – http://www.facebook.com/lunchlearnpod Follow the podcast on twitter – http://www.twitter.com/lunchlearnpod – use the hashtag #LunchLearnPod if you have any questions, comments or requests for the podcast For More Episodes of the Lunch and Learn with Dr. Berry Podcasts https://www.drberrypierre.com/lunchlearnpodcast/ If you are looking to help the show out Leave a Five Star Review on Apple Podcast because your ratings and reviews are what is going to make this show so much better Share a screenshot of the podcast episode on all of your favorite social media outlets & tag me or add the hashtag.#lunchlearnpod Download Episode 113 Transcript Episode 113 Transcript... Introduction Dr. Berry: And welcome to another episode of the Lunch and Learn with Dr. Berry. Dr. Berry Pierre, your favorite Board Certified Internist. Founder of drberrypierre.com, as well as the CEO of Pierre Medical Consulting, which helps you empower yourself for better health with the number one podcast for patient advocacy. And this week we have a doozy, of course, this is men's health month. And I thought, no other topic, right? If I had to choose one topic that really hit home and hammer home when we talk about men and ways that we can work on getting them to see the doctor more, know the topic shot to the top of my mind as well as my read my mind than sexual health. And today we're going to be talking about those big two letters, ED - erectile dysfunction. And I thought it get, you know what, I do have some experience taking care of patients with ED, but who better to really educate the community and really expand the knowledge base of the Lunch and Learn community than urologists. And I was very fortunate for this urologist coming on the show, this is Dr. Jennifer Miles-Thomas. She earned her medical degree from Northwestern University school of medicine. She cleared her undergrad degree in biology at Virginia Commonwealth University. She did a general surgery internship at John Hopkins and completed a urology residency as well as a separate fellowship and female urology and neurology at the James Buchanan Brady Urological Institute. Dr. Jenn Miles-Thomas is a diplomat of the American Board of Urology and she is also a board certified and female pelvic medicine and reconstructive surgery. So again, I know that may seem like a mouthful, but you know, short and sweet Dr. Jenn is absolutely amazing and she is crazy smart, right? If you had to think about what does all that mean? That's probably just me as those who send in this podcast. She is absolutely brilliant and we're in for a treat. And I could tell you during this interview if I wish you could see some of my facial expressions that I was making during the time when she was really explaining and educating me through Lunch and Learn community members. The different ways and treatment modalities associated with erectile dysfunction. So you guys are in for a treat. Remember like always, if you have not had a chance, go ahead and subscribe to the podcast, leave a five-star review and comment for the podcast as well as make sure you tell a friend, tell a friend, tell a friend to just share podcasts. Especially because I know someone has someone in a family member, especially male, right? Who has not seen a doctor in years. And I hate to say that you're partly to blame, but if someone's not seeing the doctor in years and years, seeing the doctor regularly, that's something that we, we need to address ASAP. If someone is not going to a doctor, especially in male, right? And you're also not going to the doctor, is going to be very difficult for you to try to convince that man that he needs to go see a physician as well. So please take the time to listen, again, we're talking about sexual health, we talk about few things as well, especially associated with Dr. Jenn as far as what she does on the size, especially from a business standpoint. You guys are gonna want to stick around for that. So again, leave her five-star review. Let me know how you feel. And again, thank you for all that you do. You guys have a great and blessed day and let's get ready for another amazing episode here on the Lunch and Learn with Dr. Berry. Episode Dr. Berry: Alright, Lunch and Learn community again you just heard this amazing introduction from an expert that I definitely think is needed, right? Especially in this month of men's health month. And I have always joked in the past, but I really, I kind of say half-jokingly, a lot of times when I get men to come in my office to see me on an outpatient visit, right? This was this field, right? It was one of the main reasons why they would come, right? Like there are usually two reasons. One, family member drags him. Two, got some sexual issues, right? And of course, obviously I could talk from an internist standpoint, but I figured, you know, let's get an expert to come in and help educate us and you know, kind of get us mindset ready for the month and really show us, you know, why this is such an important topic, right? Even though we kind of say jokingly, right? This is actually an extremely important topic for men, right? Because again, like I said, it is one of the main reasons why I would get him to come see me in my office, right? So again, first of all, thank you for joining the Lunch and Learn community. Dr. Jenn: Oh, you're so welcome. Thank you for having me. Dr. Berry: So, Dr. Jenn, I told them about your amazing bio and just give the audience just, you know, let's say for some reason they skipped the introduction and they want to know, like, who's the person on the podcast this week? Right? Like, tell us something that may not be in your bio. And it says like, hey, you know, this is why I'm who I am. Dr. Jenn: I live in a very interesting life. I am a urologist who is a female, who is African American. So there's only really a few of us across the country. (Yeah. That is so true.) Yeah. What else is interesting? I'm married with three children, so that's a little bit different. Sometimes it's hard to balance a high powered, stressful career and a family. And I've recently gotten into extreme sports, so I've been snowboarding and I just finished a triathlon this past weekend, so I'm kind of all out there. Dr. Berry: Oh Wow. That's okay, alright. I love it. Okay. That's how you started the show, right? This type of show about to go on. Right? (Exactly.) So Lunch and Learn community, we talked, you know, if you caught the most recent episode, if you caught the live streams, you know that June is men's health month and you know that I have made it a point to try to call out my male listeners and my male friends and family members to really stress the importance of health awareness and why we're dedicating a whole month for that? Cause that's always the big issue, right? Like why am I getting home on this specific topic? And why is men's health month so important? Because really it's killing us. Right? And I've talked about it before. The top 10 leading causes in the world, men dominate those categories, right? Why? Because, you know, we're just not taking care of ourselves. So I wanted to get on Jenn to, again, in urology. And like I say, I don't know if you realize it like, especially when you think about urology is usually not one way you think about. But female urologist, right? So just the how like that subcategory namely African-American is, you know, this is a gem that was actually, you know, we're finding here to be able to kind of talk to her, which I'm definitely excited for. So Dr. Jenn, if you would just kind of give the Lunch and Learn little bit introduction on, you know what actually is the urology? Just so you can kind of get in the same mental ballpark of where we're at. Dr. Jenn: Yeah. So it's interesting. So a urologist is a specialist who also a surgeon who works with the organs of the genital-urinary tract. So in English, what does that mean? That means it's a doctor. I know. So that means I’m a doctor who deals with problems of the kidney, the bladder, the testicles, the prostate, the penis, in men and women. So sometimes it's medical therapy and sometimes it's surgery. We do both. But those are the organs we take care of. Dr. Berry: It is really kind of interesting. I'm an internist. For those for some reason is the first time catching a show, I'm an internist so I practice in the hospital. But what made you say, you know, urology is the field for me? Dr. Jenn: So the real story is I thought I was going to be like the female version of Ben Carson. So I was going into med school, but I do neurosurgery, right? But sometimes that's very hard and I'm a big quality of life person and sometimes there are things you just can't fix. And after a couple of cases that were out of everyone's control emotionally, I didn't know if I could do that every day. Sometimes you'll see a 30-year-old who has a bleed and they'll never be the same and some things you can fix them some things you can't. And I said, well, I know I really want to focus on the quality of life. So one of my friends, of course, who's male was said, hey, you should do urology. And I was like, Oh yeah, that's a bunch of old men. Like, why would I wanna do urology? This is real talk. Okay, why would I want to do that? Right. So I did a rotation like we do in medical school, and every time I went into the room, the wives would be, are you going into urology? Let me tell you about my problem. And I was like, well, what's going on here? Like why are these people asking me? And I didn't know at the time that there weren't very many female urologists. So probably when I started they were probably less than 5% in the country. Now it's like seven and a half percent. But I mean, I've been out for more than a decade. Yeah. There are not that many female urologists. There are quite a few residents who are coming through. The classes are more 50-50 which is great. But still, I mean there was definitely a need. So I decided to go into it and I love it. I would never do anything different. This is who I am and what I needed to go into. Because urology, it's one of those fields where it's very technical, it's very surgical. But what you're talking about on a daily basis is what people don't want to talk about. It's what they're afraid to mention. They don't tell other people, they don't even tell their wives or their husbands really what's going on and you're able to give them back that quality of life. So for me, every day it's a gift. Dr. Berry: I’m glad that you touched on that way because I can tell you I've had plenty appointments where the guy comes in for a very vague reason and you know right when I'm about to try to get out there and say “doc, doc before you leave”. Once I know I get one of those, hey doc before you leave, I already know exactly the direction go. It's so taboo that even when they come to see, you know, their regular outpatient clinical doctor for your checkup, it's very tough for them to even come out and say it, which is mind-boggling. Right? Because you would think like, hey no, that issue. If I'm having problems with that area, right? Like I want to make sure like that's the first thing I'm putting down on paper. (Yes.) Nope. They'll say, no, I had a cold and that's why I'm here. I definitely, and I love that you get that even on both friends. Right? Because I would figure it with women, it'd be a little bit more open. So I interested to hear that. Even on both sides, some people are very secretive on, you know, letting them know like these are some of the problems I'm dealing with. Dr. Jenn: Exactly. And I think it's a little bit different because in my world I just directly ask. So it's not that you have to wait and say, okay, as I'm walking in the door and kind of build up the courage, I'm just going to ask you how your erections are, how many times you get up at night, how are your erections? It's just regular, you know, it's a Tuesday. Why not? Dr. Berry: I love it. That's okay. That's fine. Okay, we like that way. Direct, no sugarcoating. This is why I'm here for it. Clearly, this is why you see me now. Now especially for urologic standpoint is that a lot of the different reasons why someone may come to see you just, I obviously we're talking about sexual health. I like this is what are somebody like the common issues and complaints and that you may see it as like, oh, I'm coming to see you for this. Dr. Jenn: Sure. So it's not just erectile dysfunction. A lot of times we'll see people for kidney stones, we'll see people for kidney tumors or bladder cancer, a lot of prostate cancer. Sometimes people will just have blood in their urine or bladder infections or they'll have like testicular pain or especially for women incontinence or leaking during the day and having to wear pads. So we see people for a variety of reasons. Dr. Berry: And obviously, has definitely, something that from your logical standpoint, I think it's a very interesting, right? Because a lot of times I think when we think of surgical specialties, we tend to think that they all they do with surgery. Right? And very interesting to understand like, no, there's a lot of clinical and you know, even psychosocial if I would like to stretch it issues kind of centered around some of the stuff that people are coming to see you for. Dr. Jenn: Exactly. Urology has one of those fields where you can operate and do very large major cases. You can do a lot of bread and butter, common cases. And then as you get older and closer to retirement, there are many things you can just do in the office. So it's one of those professions where you can do it throughout your career. Dr. Berry: Obviously, we wanna, you know, we’ll hit home because this is definitely, you know, the reason why someone's listening to at least this week's episode. Right. So let's talk about sexual health, right? And I know we alluded to it, but like how important is it, right? Especially from the men and women with obviously is men's health month, we'll give them a shy, we'll definitely bring you on. We need to talk about the women because I definitely don't want to make sure you eat them out. (Okay.) In that regards. But especially for men, like I like how important is sexual health for them, right? Like what is some of the like, oh, before I came to see you this house for a little bit after you take care of me. Like this is how I'm building now. Dr. Jenn: So regardless of what's on the news where people say sexual health is very, very important. Why? Because it's part of you. I mean, we're all animals. We all have the same instincts and when something doesn't work or it's change, how do you feel about yourself, you don't feel the same. So it's not that people fall into depression, but they just, they've lost a part of their life, a part of their relationship that was very, very important to them. This is psychological. This is physical. A lot of times with sexual dysfunction, there may be other things medically going on at the same time. So sometimes it's like the red flag of, Hey, where else do we need to look? What else could be going on at the same time? So I'd say this is very important and I think people realize it's important, but there's such a taboo about talking about it. I mean, of course, our popular media has changed and sex is a lot more out there. But when people are talking about their own personal sexuality and health, it's still taboo. Dr. Berry: Do you find the conversation a little bit more difficult because you are a female urologist when you're in your office or is it by the time they come they see you like they've already kind of cleared that hurdle? Dr. Jenn: So it's funny. So I would say that it's generational. So the Millennials, they don't care. They just want their stuff fixed regardless. Any boundaries whatsoever, everything will tell me what they did, how they did it and what they want to do in the future. They don't really have an issue. The kind of middle age, I would say like 30 to 60 takes a few minutes just for going to comfortable. But then they realized my personality is like, Hey, this is, this is just what we do and we're going to just say it and I'm going to ask you questions and we're going to help fix the problem. They get very comfortable. Over 65 or 70 sometimes it takes them a little while because first of all, they're from a generation where they didn't really talk about sex the same way that current generations do, and sometimes they never were really educated about their body or what was normal, what's not normal, what things should look like, what they should feel like, what are other signs? So after probably one or two sessions, then, oh, they open up about everything and sometimes they'll bring their wives. So we all can have the same discussion and figure out what's going on and how we could help. Dr. Berry: Okay, alright. Let’s make it a group appointment. Dr. Jenn: Yep. I have quite a few group appointments. It's okay. Dr. Berry: So speaking of a normal, what's not normal, right? Let talk about, you know, EB - erectile dysfunction, right? For Lunch and Learn community who may have been living under a rock and you know, we haven't seen one of those thousand commercials. Right? What is it exactly? Dr. Jenn: Okay. So the technical definition of ED or erectile dysfunction is, it's the ability to attain or maintain a penile erection sufficient for satisfactory sexual performance. So what does that mean? That means if you have difficulty either getting or keeping an erection that's good enough for you is what ED is. (Very subjective.) It is. So some people have don't have erections but don't care well, you know, that's perfectly fine. Other people, it takes them a little bit longer to ejaculate or they ejaculate too early and that's fine for them and that's fine. But anywhere in the middle, it's all based upon your own personal satisfaction. Dr. Berry: It was interesting. Do you tend to find common reasons for why that may occur? Is there a couple of things I get they, everyone who follows in this category always seems to have ED or what does someone have some of the causes that you've seen kind of work that are associated with ED? Dr. Jenn: Well, the biggest cause, especially in America is diabetes. (Okay. Alright.) Yeah. So diabetes, like I kind of explained it to people. Well you know what as it affects the small blood vessels and the small nerves and it's kind of interesting because if you relate it back and you say, you know how sometimes your fingertips will tangle or your toes will tangle or they're a go numb and you don't feel them. That's because those little small blood vessels of the small nerves aren't getting what they need because the sugar control is out of control and it's damaging. The same thing with your penis. It basically has really small nerves and sometimes if things aren't going to work it's because your blood sugars have been too high. So you really have to work on getting your blood sugars under control in order to get back some of this function. And when you kind of make it like that analogy, it makes sense. It's something tiny and small and diabetes affects the tiny small blood vessels. Dr. Berry: I love that, especially cause I know for Lunch and Learn community members like we've talked about diabetes and we've talked about all of the effects of diabetes. I even wrote a blog where I said I don't even wish diabetes on my worst enemy just because of all of the different things it's associated with. So now we know, you know, especially for as again, if you're diabetic and you're just blowing it off as just a sugar disease, now you can see, especially from a man, right? Cause we're talking to them in this men month, right? This is another reason why you should take care of yourself. Right? Because you don't want to have ED, you don't want ED to take care of your diabetes. So that's, okay. I love it. Dr. Jenn: Exactly. Now, other things we have to think about too, we’re learning and associating a lot more with heart disease. Because again, it's the small blood vessels that are feeding the penis. So if someone has early onset erectile dysfunction, like their thirties and forties we're also working with cardiologists to screen them and to make sure that they don't have plaques or cardiovascular disease because the small blood vessels are usually affected first. Dr. Berry: Now is that something that comes up just while you're asking a lot of your questions, like, hey, do you have this, do you have that? Do you have this? And then it you just kind of seeing this correlation kind of growing? Dr. Jenn: Yes, definitely. So of course when you're seeing a patient and you have their medical lists, do you know what medications they're on? You know their past medical history, but if someone who's never been in the system, and it's just coming to you for this, this is what we screen for. If you look at the major academic centers, most of them have men health clinics and it's usually an internist or urologist as well as a cardiologist because we're finding that these overall health syndromes, metabolic syndromes are being diagnosed with people first seeking care for erectile dysfunction. Dr. Berry: Wow. Okay. Alright. So again, if you're listening, if you're paying attention, especially for, let's say you have a family member or friend who you know, is suffering from some of these other diseases and it's very difficult to get them to come to the doctor, right? This now you have another weight in, right? You don't want to, hey, you know, you'll take your blood pressure. This can also happen, right? Cause again, usually two reasons. Usually, a family member is forcing them to come to the doctor's office or they got some sexual issues, right? So again, this is another way that we can kind of like start pushing them in back into the doctor's office and getting them right. Again, they're aware of just everything that's kind of going on. Thank you. Thank you for that. (No problem.) So when they come to you and you know what you do your screening and they're checking all the boxes off for ED. Of course, I'm pretty sure by the time they've seen those thousands of commercials. Right? But what are some of the treatment options that are out there? One, what we'll talk about the common ones, the one that they may not even know about? Dr. Jenn: Yes. First of all, of course, I have to say this disclaimer and this warning, everything that you see on TV or can order on the Internet isn't safe for you. (Yes. And then the gas station.) The gas station attendant does not know more than your doctor about your erectile dysfunction. That's all I got to say. But honestly, the FDA did a recent crackdown and urologist across the country got a notification. Some of these medications, I wouldn't say medications in quotes that are available over the internet that thought excellent results in work actually have controlled medications and them like generics and Viagra and Cialis and things like that. And so we get updates and kind of the names of over the counter medications that we need to look out and screen our patients for because yes, everyone knows the names of these brand new medications, but honestly, they're expensive. So people try to find other things that will work instead. But unfortunately, things that aren't controlled by the FDA or go through a rigorous screening process, things that are like natural types of products sometimes aren't always in your best interest to use because they do have active ingredients from drugs that are controlled and there are always potential side effects. You don't really know what you're taking. So I just want to put that warning out there. But the first day and for treatment option is to kind of divide and see what's your actual issue is. So I get the question all the time. Is it my testosterone? Do I need testosterone? (Yes. Let’s talk about that.) Allow me to tell you about testosterone. Testosterone is important for men. So it's actually made by your testicles. So a signal from your brain goes down to your testicles and says, hey, we need more testosterone floating in your bloodstream. When you have normal levels of testosterone, you have a libido. And what's libido? Libido is the desire to have sex or to engage in like sexual activity. Now if you give someone testosterone, you will increase their libido. But that does not mean that they'll get an erection. So you have, when you come in and say, I have erectile dysfunction, can I have testosterone? If your testosterone is low, just know that you may have a libido, but that doesn't always mean that your erection will change. Okay. So what do we do for actual erections? Well, the way I practice, we always go from least invasive to most invasive. I first want to make sure there's nothing medically wrong like there is not a tumor or something else that we can see what's going on that may be causing a problem. But if there's not in the first thing we can try as oral medication, and it's the ones that we know in medical lingo, we call them PDE five inhibitors. And basically what happens is when you get an erection, your brain puts out a signal and the nerves basically send and this transmitter that says, hey, I need blood flow in. And as the cylinders fill in the penis, it cuts off the vein. So you don't draw that blood back out. So your penis just fills and then it stays that way until your brain says, oh, I'm done. And then it stops feeling and it slowly gets smaller as the blood drains back out. So that's actually how an erection work. Now the other thing that's important is an erection is different than orgasm or ejaculation. They are controlled by different nerves. So one set of nerves gives you the erection. The other set of nerves allows you to ejaculate during an orgasm. (So actually problems in different sections.) Exactly. (Okay.) And also you can have an orgasm without having an erection. So that's why we have like a real conversation when we have these things. Because I mean, how would you know that unless you actually asked? It's not like you can just Google it, right? Probably can, but I haven't tried to. It's best if you actually just talked to someone. Dr. Berry: Lunch and Learn community, please talk personal. No Google. Dr. Jenn: So after the medications, there are other things you can do too. So a lot of people know about the medications, some of them are more expensive. But the good news is a lot of generics are now in the market. So yes, there are much more affordable. But let's say you try to medications and they don't work or you don't feel good or right when you're taking them or they don't work well enough. The next one, there's actually a little insert, it looks like a little tablet that you can put at the tip of your penis and it has medication that causes the blood to flow into your penis. That's an option. (Oh Wow. Okay.) There is also an injection. So you know how there are when people have diabetes, there are these little pens that you can inject the insulin. Well, there's a little kind of a little injection that you can inject on the side of your penis and also we'll put medication directly into your penis and cause you to have an erection. Dr. Berry: So let me stop you there. Right? (Okay, good.) When I had my diabetic patients, they're not get drilled and I gotta have that discussion where I'm saying, hey, you know what, the pills not working no more. You have to start injecting yourself and I know the face and the fight against once I have to go that right, like how does that conversation when you're telling the person like, hey those bills aren't the thing for you. We got to start injecting yourself and only if you had to start injecting directly in your penis. Right? Like what is that conversation like in the office? Dr. Jenn: So I get the same response kind of wide eyes like oh that's not going to happen. And then the next question is does it work? And when I say yes it works and people are very happy that can do it, they set out at least try it. Now we don't just send somebody home with the needle to stick in their penis. Like that's not what we do. We actually have nurses. So you come in for an appointment and we have to dose the medication because we want you to be able to get an erection. But we don't want you to have it all day, right? So we have to make sure you get the right dose of medication. So we actually have, it's called ICI, we actually have nurses who would just come see you as an appointment, we'd give you a test dose, we'd make sure you get an adequate erection, and then we also make sure it goes down and usually we have your partner there with you because sometimes people mentally can't do it and sometimes their partners are able to do it for them. Or once they see it they say, oh, it's not as big of a deal as I thought it was going to be. It doesn't hurt as much. I had never even heard that I could do that. So it was a little bit weird. But then once you do it and then you get a great erection and it works, people are happy. Dr. Berry: Okay. Now is there, especially, I'm tripping on this injection thing. Is there something like an office right that reverses it or is it just kind of like supposed to go down on its own over time? Dr. Jenn: So it's supposed to go down on its own over time because the medications aren't long acting. They're shorter acting. (Okay.) That's why we do the first trials in the office because if it doesn't go down then we give you medication to make it go down. Now there's also another option that you can have and it's called a vacuum erection device and what it looks like kind of, look at him. Dr. Berry: Lunch and Learn community you could see my face right now. I am learning just as long as relating, I'm like, okay. Alright. Again, I’m an internist, by this time, I'm referring them to the urologist. I don't. Okay, so now I'm processing right with you. Dr. Jenn: Okay. So if vacuum erection device looks like a little cylinder, and what it does is at one end of the cylinder near the base of the penis, it has like a little, I don't know, think of it as like a little rubber band and you can basically like squeezed a little cylinder. And what happens is it's a vacuum, so it draws blood into your penis and then you roll down the little kind of rubber band on it and that rubber band prevents the blood from flowing back into your body. (Okay.) So this is something that's, it's a little bit less spontaneous, but still, there are no needles, there's no medication. That's something natural and you can do it on your own and it does work. All the vacuum erection device. And then if none of that works, there are penile prostheses. So a prosthetic is a device that we surgically put inside of your penis. And usually what we do is we have a little pump that looks like a little squeeze pump that we put next to your testicles and all you have to do is squeeze that pump and then your penis would pump up because we actually have a reservoir with like saline or water in it that fills those little tubes. So if nothing else works, that's a guaranteed way to get an erection. Dr. Berry: Now is the stepwise approach for this patient, right? Is that the end? I'm like, this didn't work, this didn't work, this didn't work. Alright, let's go to the prostheses. Or is it kind of patient dependent when you're kind of deciding like, all right, which route we're gonna go end up mean? Dr. Jenn: So typically it step-by-step, but it's patient driven. So if I see a 30-year-old who's never tried a drug, we're gonna, I'm gonna let them know that there is the option for prosthesis, but that's not what's recommended. So you try to do minimal to get the benefit. And then if you fail or you're not willing to do it, you can move on. But a penile prosthesis, that's the end. That's what we have to offer. It does work, but you can't go back. So once you have the surgery that means that the medications won't work. Injections won't work. You have the surgery. So that's why it's the last thing that we do. Dr. Berry: You mentioned 30-year-old because that gives pressure someone to my own community. It was like 30 because I know they're probably thinking this is a quote-unquote old man's disease. What some of the age ranges that you're seeing with patients with erectile dysfunction that even someone in Lunch and Learn community might be surprised by like, oh my God, they're that old dealing with this problem? Dr. Jenn: Yeah. So from young in the thirties, twenties and thirties sometimes I've seen college kids who everything was fine and now situationally with the new girlfriend or whoever, I'm just not able to get an erection and we kind of work through what's going on because remember, this is all controlled by the brain. There's something going on in the brain that's prohibiting it from making that message to get an erection and there are actual sexual therapists. These aren't like woo on TV people. These are real people who say, okay, let's break it down. What's actually going on in your life that is causing you to feel this way, is causing your brain not to secrete the right neurotransmitters for you to actually have an erection. And it does help. I've seen people who couldn't ejaculate, couldn't have orgasms. They meet with these therapists and they're like, my eyes were opened and things are all good now and it's real. And you just never thought you'd be talking about your sex life with someone, but you know what? It's quality of life. Either you can stay the way that you are or you can get it fixed and since there are people available to fix it, that's what you do and you move on. And you keep doing live in life. Dr. Berry: Exactly. Oh, I love it and tell you I'm loving this conversation guys. I wish you get to see my face during some of the parts so you can understand. It's a learning process for it all. And it's real because these are real-life conversations that we're having on a day to day basis. Again, if you have to scare, some of your friends or family members to get it into the doctor's office, to get this taken care of, please do so. Right? Cause it, it, it needs to be done because this isn't something that, again, I know you see that thousands of commercials and I know we're going to ask Dr. Jenn where should someone go look, right? Cause I know where it, we're saying don't go to doctor Google. Right? We already know, Lunch and Learn community members you all googling when I tell you don't Google, you're going to Google anyway. Even when I tell you don't go to YouTube and watch that surgery beforehand, you're going to do it. They were like, we just know how you all do now. Is there any viable sources that you will say like, hey, if you got to like read up on this subject, like read this website, like is there anywhere that you would point on to? Dr. Jenn: Yeah. So for urologists across the US we have, it's called the urology care foundation. So it's ways to educate patients on urologic conditions. So it's the legitimate source of information. It's not a company trying to sell you anything, it's just the real deal of this is what you need to do and it's written in plain, straight forward English and that would be urologyhealth.org. So Urology is U R O L O G Y health dot org. The other sites that are good and give straightforward information would be mayoclinic.org or webmd.com. Those are actually good, straightforward information and someone who wants a little bit more detail and are like, okay, I've read all that. It's kind of generic but I want more detail. Our Actual Association for Urologist has a great website too for under education and it'll show you what all the guidelines are. So like if you're hearing this from one person, you're not sure, you can actually see what the published guidelines are and every few years, every like four or five years, we all get together and we revise them and say, this is what the data shows us, this is what standard of care is, this is what you should be offering, this is what you need to think about. And that is auanet.org and that's for the urology association and that's the standard of care. So those are ones that are just straightforward. You can get the real deal information with no bias and understand why this has happened. Dr. Berry: And Lunch and Learn community members, just like always, all of these links, especially if you're driving, you're at work, wherever you're at listening to this, all these things will be in the show notes. So you know, I definitely want to make sure we're pointing you in the right direction. Because it's important to hear it because I know you guys, you guys are gonna want to follow up to make sure we not talking crazy. So we've got to point you to the right direction to make sure that doesn't occur as well. So again, I've done thank you for that, right. Because this is again, this has been very eye-opening, mind-blowing experience. I'm learning, I'm out to go to the website right when we're done, just don't make sure I can educate my patients, and of itself with such an important topic at hand, this is a portion of the podcast that I love, right? Because you know, I bring a guest on to really educate our community. But I'm just kinda selfish, right? Cause I also bring them on, right? Cause I really want to promote them right. And you know, say what, how to cause most of the people I kind of see and follow them. I'm shadow following them one way or the other. So I like to see people who are sending out doing some stuff, right? Like, and whether it's medicine, not medicine, doing some stuff is always something that I love to see out of our physicians. So this I like to call it, it's like our promo, our promo appeared. Right? Dr. Jenn, obviously we know you're amazing urologists. Is there anything that you do that someone in Lunch and Learn community may be able to benefit from or any books or whatever? This is your time, right? You tell us what you got going on and anything going on and let us know how we can continue to support you. Dr. Jenn: Well, I told you I'm a big quality of life person, right? So a lot of times what I see, especially with patients in medicine, is that a lot of times people don't search for answers because of money. Medicine is getting more and more expensive and the way that the insurance companies are moving, they're pushing more and more of that onto the patients. I don't think that's going to change anytime soon. Those insurance companies are really the wealthiest ones in the game. So they're going to determine what we do, (keep that money to themselves.) Exactly. Exactly. So what I do is I actually talk about money. I talk about money on Instagram and online too, and kind of help people figure out how to get a debt, how to build wealth, and how did it get their stuff together. Because if that's one less thing you have to worry about, think about your overall mental health. If you're no longer stressed about having to pay bills if you're no longer stressed about, how am I going to rob Peter to pay Paul, things like that. I think I'm just a person who has a lot of tough conversations and sex and money are the two things that people don't want to talk about in public. (I love it.) So that's what I talk about for sure. So on Instagram now, it was kind of embarrassing because I do put some of my personal life out there on Instagram. So on Instagram, I'm doctor, which is Dr. Jenn, J. E. N. N. M. D. That's probably the easiest place to kind of follow me and kind of see what I do. I put some of the pictures of me out and about doing some of my extreme sports on there too. Dr. Berry: Then that's what I want to go see doing extreme sports. I want to see that. Dr. Jenn: Yeah, well the snowboarding was interesting. I only did the before picture. Right. So it's all good. But yeah, that'd be the best way to follow me and my links to my website. It's drjennmd.com. All that stuff is on Instagram too, so you can kind of get a little picture of my life and how I really role. Dr. Berry: I love it. So we need to talk to Dr. Jenn. Get our messages together and get our sexual health together. Get our money together. Let's get all that. Right? And it’s 2019. We're halfway through the year. Definitely no time like the present especially for a men's health month and making sure we are getting all of our ducks in line, especially when it comes to sexual health and the importance of sexual health and the massive education lesson that we got today. Definitely thankful for Dr. Jenn. Thank you. Dr. Jenn: Oh, you're so welcome. You're so very welcome. Dr. Berry: Yes. So before I leave, how I was like answer this question. How is what you're doing helping to empower men especially when we talk about sexual health? What are you doing to really empower this and get them to make sure that they’ve taken better care to sexual health? Dr. Jenn: I'm asking the questions and I'm educating them because as we know, knowledge is power. If you don't know, you'll get left behind. There are a lot of people out there that have resources that are getting things fixed and done. There's a lot of small little things you can do to change your overall quality of life, but if you don't know what to ask or don't know something is available, you're going to miss out. So I think my role is really to ask those hard questions and educate my patients. People I see, people I come in contact with, that's what my role is to educate. Dr. Berry: I love it. And for those who may know, again Dr. Jenn obviously being a urologist, being African American and female, obviously there's you know, proponent of women's health that really goes into a lot of care to and of course, and I kind of pick and hold there on this episode, really talk about the men, but she will be, I'm going to beg her, we'll be coming back, right? Because I definitely wanted to hear about a lot of the women's health-related amongst sexual health and all the urological problems that I know they got. Right. Why? Because trust me, if you think I'm referring fast when it comes to men talking about sexual health and all the things you best believe once my women patients say like, hey Dr. Pierre, like this is happening. I'm having problems urinating. Anything that goes on in that area, is okay, alright. There you go. So we'll definitely make sure she comes on to really educate us on woman side as well too. So again Dr. Jenn, thank you for really taking the time out to educate Lunch and Learn community. I know this extremely informal cause I'm still like, okay, I'm still thinking about the pump. I was still thinking about it. And you have a great day. Thank you. Dr. Jenn: Alright. Thank you so much. Download the MP3 Audio file, listen to the episode however you like.

Sweet Potato Soul100 Easy Vegan Recipes for the Southern Flavors of Smoke, Sugar, Spice and SoulBy Jenné Claiborne Suzy Chase: Welcome to Cookery by the Book podcast with me, Suzy Chase.Jenné: I'm Jenné Claiborne, and my cookbook is Sweet Potato Soul.Suzy Chase: I'm not even going to ask you the obvious first question, if it's difficult to be a vegan from the south, but I did want to kick things off by asking you about cooking on your own when you were in elementary school. I thought that was so interesting.Jenné: Yeah, well, my mom didn't like to cook, so she got me some cookbooks. I found the recipes that I liked and got started, and it was great for me. I loved it, and my mom, it was good for her, too, because she got to eat well. We didn't have to eat out at restaurants all the time.Suzy Chase: What was the favorite thing you made when you were little?Jenné: It was Szechuan chicken, so long before being vegan, Szechuan chicken, and I loved it, because it had all these different ingredients that, to me, seemed so exotic. We had to go to the specialty grocery store. We went to the Asian grocery store to buy everything, so it was a lot of fun. All the measuring out, a little bit of this, and a little bit of that, and using the wok and making the sauce, and it was just so fun. And really, that was the only recipe that I can even remember making. I don't remember making anything else. That might be the only thing I was into.Suzy Chase: So, my mom passed away a few years ago, and one thing I long for is sitting at our kitchen table talking while she cooks. That, to me, is home. Talk about when your love of food and comfort in the kitchen began.Jenné: Like I said, my mom, she's not a big cook. However, my grandmother is, and so is my dad. So, I have those memories and those moments with those two where they're cooking, and we're sitting having a conversation, prep, and cooking, maybe I'm not. Maybe I'm just watching. So, when I was really little, my first exposure to being in the kitchen was when my grandmother moved down to Georgia and we all lived together. She was the main cook in the house, and just I was always in the kitchen with her, always helping her. Or she would give me little side projects to mix things, or even if it wasn't side projects, she would just let me do my own thing on the side, so I could say, "Oh, I'm gonna mix this flour with this baking powder, with this sugar, with this whatever."Jenné: It would never be edible, ever, but she always let me be creative and let me get my hands dirty and be in the kitchen with her, and the same with my dad. It's funny. My dad actually was raised vegan, and he grew up eating vegan. He was in his 20s when he met my mom. He always blames it on my mom, the fall, he says.Suzy Chase: The fall.Jenné: He's back now, but it took a while. So, the type of cuisine that my dad was making is all plant based, so I learned how to cook that way from him, and I remember hearing stories about ... It was foreign to me eating so many vegetables and tofu and things like that, but he would tell me stories about what he was cooking and about the ingredients, like tumeric, and, "This is the tofu, and this is when I used to work at the vegan restaurant. We would make this ice cream using this."Jenné: So, I've always been surrounded by food and by stories in the kitchen.Suzy Chase: What is your soul food philosophy?Jenné: My soul food philosophy is that any type of food can be soul food. However, being a black person from the south and just from the United States, it's definitely the traditional foods as well, the candied yams and mac and cheese and all those things, collard greens. So, that's the base point. Those are the celebratory foods, the things that when I think of my family, those are the foods I really want to eat the most. However, my grandmother, when I was a kid and still now, she always said that you put soul into everything you're cooking, and I started noticing that even though we weren't eating the stereotypical celebratory soul foods every single day, we were eating homemade foods. We were eating lots of fruits and vegetables and grains and beans, and she was preparing it all in that same style with the same essence. So, soul food to me isn't just the cannon. It's everything that you make with soul and love and all those things.Suzy Chase: In Sweet Potato Soul, the cookbook, you explore the history of southern food. Now, what's the difference between soul food and southern food?Jenné: Well, southern food is a regional blanket statement. So, I would think of southern food as encompassing soul food, and encompassing creole and Asian food, but soul food, specifically, is the foods that black people invented from our circumstances living in the south as enslaved individuals, a lot of us. That food was very much influenced by European cuisines, African cuisines, Native American cuisines. Yeah, I mean it all has come from that, but the difference is really that it was created by black people in the south, and so you'll see if you're in the south, everybody eats collared greens. Everybody eats mac and cheese. Everybody eats a lot of these foods, but there's a certain way that it's made when it's soul food or when a black person makes it.Jenné: I don't know if there's an actual thing, like a big difference that you could pinpoint if you did a blind taste test, but certainly the person who's making it would tell you otherwise.Suzy Chase: I didn't realize the term soul food became popular in the 60s.Jenné: Mm-hmm (affirmative)- Me, too, until I started researching, which is another thing that I think is interesting, and I like, because now, 21st century, 2018, I look back at how this term is fairly new, but this cuisine has been around for hundreds of year, but the cuisine has been changing over and over throughout all these years, and now it continues to change. I think part of the fact that the term is so new, it makes me feel like there's even more freedom for change and metamorphosis. This is a very ... It's not the type of cuisine that has to be set in stone and the same all the time.Jenné: Even for me, when I'm thinking about soul food, I don't think of being vegan and making vegan soul food as something totally new and different and exotic. I think of it as going back to the roots, right? So, our ancestors ate far more plant based diet than we do today, and even my grandmother, who is still around today, ate a more plant based diet when she was my age or really younger than me, actually and so did her grandparents and her parents and such.Jenné: So, I think of soul food now as just going back to its plant based roots and reclaiming that the 60s and the 50s were a time when soul food was starting to become more fried and more heavy and more industrialized, relying more on packaged foods to prepare the soul food. Before it was just all homemade everything, and then, of course, the industrialization of the food system in the 50s had changed all American food, including soul food. So, now, we're just taking it back to pre-term soul food.Suzy Chase: So, describe how many things, other than food choices, shifted in your life after you became vegan.Jenné: I see. Okay, so after I became vegan, the food was obviously the main first thing that shifted, and I've always loved food, so it was really east for me to shift that, because I was in the kitchen. I was experimenting more. It was like a new adventure for me, and all I wanted to do was cook. All I wanted to do was grocery shop. We'd be at the farmer's market and buying new recipe books and things like that. But, a couple, I wouldn't say it really happened right away, but eventually, within the next year or so of being vegan, it started shifting my other consumer choices.Jenné: So, the clothing I was buying, I no longer bought clothing made with animal products, leather and wool and things like that. I have since started buying ... Actually, I've since buying all fast fashion, so I'm a lot more mindful of making sure to buy thrifted clothes, and I'm just a bit more eco-friendly. And of course, a lot of the reason people go vegan is for health reason, and for me, within a couple of weeks of being vegan, I noticed the health differences.Jenné: And before I was vegan, I was vegetarian. I thought I was very healthy. I realized I wasn't very healthy, because I think I just got used to my face line being whatever. And once I became vegan, I felt so much better. I didn't even realize that I wasn't feeling that great before. So, that happened almost immediately. That wasn't my main reason for becoming vegan, but it certainly, once I started feeling that shift so early on, I realized, "Okay, this is worth changing my lifestyle for."Suzy Chase: So, what kind of shift did you feel? Did you have more energy? Did you sleep better?Jenné: Those things for sure, but the thing was I have always, not any more, but I had always had digestive issues. From as early as I can remember, I was in the doctor on different medications, gastroenterologists. My parents were always trying to figure out what is going on with my gut. We knew that I was very sensitive to dairy, so I didn't eat things like pizza. I did eat some pizza, but very little cheese. I didn't eat ice cream. Dairy sneaks in everything.Jenné: So, basically, without knowing it until I became 100% vegan, I had just been suffering from dairy my whole life. Like I said, in and out of the doctor, all sorts of digestive issues, and everything, and that was influencing all areas of my life. I was more moody when my stomach was not feeling well. I had less energy. I couldn't sleep as well. I didn't feel my optimal self, but I got to a point where I thought, "Well, this is just my stomach. I'm just faulty. I can't do anything about this. Oh well."Jenné: And I got to that point a few years even before becoming vegan. It wasn't until I became vegan that I realized that it was really the dairy, because by the time I became vegan, all that I had left to cut out of my diet was I was eating yogurt, and occasionally, I'd have a slice of pizza, but I was hardly eating any at all. My skin cleared up after that. Of course, I had more energy after that. My whole outlook on life changed, because I wasn't uncomfortable all the time any more.Suzy Chase: One food that's listed in your southern pantry staples section is peanuts, the overlooked peanut, which I happen to love. Talk a little bit about George Washington Carver's vegan recipes in the 1900s made out of peanuts.Jenné: So, I've always been fascinated by George Washington Carver. In black history month in school, you learn about him and all his inventions of the peanut, the peanut butter, and revolutionized growing peanuts to fix soil, and all this amazing stuff. So, when I was writing my book, and I was doing research for the book, I started learning more about him, not just what I had learned in school during black history month. He made so many "inventions," recipes with the peanut, everything from making peanut butter to peanut meats, mock meats using peanuts. He used it for all different things, and he taught homemakers, in fact, back in the day we'd call them, how to use peanuts in their homes. Basically, they were very nutritious, obviously, high in protein and fiber and just great for the whole family.Jenné: The funny thing, though, is as much as I think it is very fascinating, as much as I love George Washington Carver, I'm allergic to peanuts, so I don't really eat peanuts.Suzy Chase: I know. I read that, and I read that for the longest you were repulsed by the sight and smell of peanuts, and it's almost like your body was protecting you.Jenné: But the thing is, I do not have an allergy to peanuts when they're not from the United States. It might be mental. I admit it might be totally psychosomatic, but I have multiple times eaten peanuts in different countries and not realize that I was eating it until three bites in or whatever and had no reaction whatsoever. I was at a talk recently, and the presenter was passing around peanuts that she had brought back recently from Ghana, and I'm like, "I'm gonna taste this and see what happens." I'm not gonna die. I'm not anaphylactic allergic. No problem, no issue, so I don't know if it's psychosomatic with me, or if there's something about the American-grown peanuts. I don't know, but I would like to get over this allergy, because I feel like it keeps me from my roots, my culture.Suzy Chase: Right.Jenné: But you know, another thing ago about him, George Washington Carver, that I didn't realize until working on this book was his also fascination with the sweet potato. He really researched peanuts, because peanuts are used to repair soil, farmland that's been overused and damaged. You can plant peanuts. They're nitrogen fixing, so they will fertilize and make that soil fertile again.Jenné: He also focused on sweet potatoes. Sweet potatoes are similar. They are very easy to grow. They are high in nutrients like peanuts are, and you can do a million and one things with them. So, in addition to making all these different inventions with peanuts, he was doing the same thing with sweet potatoes. He was also teaching homemakers how to use sweet potatoes. He has sweet potato milk. By the way, he has peanut milk, too, sweet potato butter. It's funny, because he says sweet potato lamb chops or sweet potatoes whatever, but it's 100% vegan. All this stuff is vegan. So, I just thought that was so interesting way back when it took him doing all this stuff.Suzy Chase: He was so ahead of his time.Jenné: Mm-hmm (affirmative)- Seriously.Suzy Chase: Speaking of sweet potatoes, they've always been your favorite food, and it's also the name of your hugely popular blog, Sweet Potato Soul. Talk a little bit about that.Jenné: I've always loved the sweet potato, and I can remember my grandmother preparing them for me when I got home after school. She always keeps baked sweet potatoes in our refrigerator. Quick snack, healthy, energizing, it's just perfect, and I've always loved them, and everything from canned yams to sweet potato pie, my two favorite foods. So, when I wanted to start my food blog, it made perfect sense that I would have my very favorite food in the title. Then, of course, soul, because soul food means so much to me, and I want to expand what that means, what soul food means. So, yeah.Suzy Chase: I never knew there were so many kinds of sweet potatoes. You have nine listed I your cookbook, to be exact. Can we find all of these varieties in the grocery store?Jenné: Yes, we can. There are more that I didn't feature, because they're too hard for us to find here in America, but you can find those. If you go to the grocery store, you might see a fake garnet and jewel yams. Those are sweet potatoes. They're not yams. Yams are something totally different. Or sometimes nowadays, you'll see the purple ones. I forgot the name of those right now, but the purple on the outside, purple on inside, I see those a lot at the grocery store these days. Also, the white on the inside, white on the outside, but if you want to go for the Asian varieties like the Okinawan sweet potato, which is gray on the outside and bright neon purple on the inside or the Japanese yams with the green ones, then you'll need to go to, usually you'll have to go to, an Asian grocery store. Why would you not want to go to that, anyway? That's my heaven.Jenné: So, I'll typically explore town, especially if you live in a big city, or if you live in Atlanta where I'm originally from, they're really easy to find. You might have to go to the ethnic or the international or Asian grocery store.Suzy Chase: I recently learned on another cookbook podcast that I did that monks in China wanted to invite non-Buddhists into their monastery, and they would eat vegetarian, but the guests wouldn't. So, they made dishes that looked and tasted similarly to meat and seafood dishes. This was the beginning of culinary replications. I'm dying to know what your thoughts are about vegan replications that look like, let's say, chicken.Jenné: Yeah, I am all for it. To be honest, I don't eat a lot of that. At home, I'm in love with vegetables and grains. That is all I need. I don't need mock meat or any of that. However, I love it for what it does for people. So many people use mock meats and these replications as a way to help in transition. Firstly, because a lot of people, they're so [inaudible 00:18:58] tastes of chicken, so they need something when they become vegan to hold them over for a while until they can figure out how to cook beans and figure out how to like broccoli and whole grains. A lot of people just don't like that, and they're not used to that. So, these foods act as a little bridge between the two. They're still totally vegan, so that's great, but they really help usher people a little closer into the real whole food, plant based lifestyle that I try to have people join.Suzy Chase: I'm surprised. I thought you were gonna be totally against it. I'm shocked.Jenné: No, I really don't have any ... The closest I have to that is I have two different sausage recipes, which are handmade sausages, so not store bought, vegan sausage. You do it by hand. It's very easy. And then I have the cauliflower chicken, but it's cauliflower. It's not Beyond Chicken that you get at Whole Foods and you bread and you fry. So, yeah, I'm not trying to like, "Everybody go eat this stuff," but I do think that those are good, like I said, a bridge.Suzy Chase: Just yesterday, I read an article that cited a recent study on consumer trends that found the term vegan to be the least appealing food and beverage marketing term among U.S. adults. What do you think about that?Jenné: Wow. Well, I'm surprised and I'm not surprised. I think vegan people, like myself, we tend to have an intuition about that. For me, though, with what I do, the marketing I'm doing and my mission is I want to be real trend, and this is vegan. I'm speaking to people who thought to themselves, they saw a movie, or they had a conversation, or whatever, they think, "I want to become vegan. I need to find vegan, specially vegan resources."Jenné: So, they might Google vegan recipes, and they'll find me. I want to be specific. I want those people. I don't want to proselytize to people. I'm not out there converting people. I'm more of a resources. However, I have thought about how if I want to reach a more mainstream audience, reach people who are not already looking for vegan resources, then using the term vegan is probably not the best way for me to do that, because it is a turn-off for a lot of people. Frankly, I think the biggest issue is that people have an image of what a vegan is and what a vegan lifestyle is, and they say, "That's not me, and that is not for me. I'm not interested."Jenné: So, until we can change the image and people's perception of what it means, I think it's a little bit more wise to influence people, get people on board without using ... I shouldn't say people. I should say more the mainstream on board without, I don't know. I don't want to say without using that term, but just maybe be a little bit more undercover with the term.Suzy Chase: So, yesterday, I made your recipe for sweet Jesus mac and cheese on page 113, and it's interesting, because for a different cookbook podcast I did, I made the original James Hemings recipe. First off, talk a little bit about James Hemings and who he was.Jenné: So, he was the enslaved chef of Thomas Jefferson, and he went with Thomas Jefferson when he went to Europe and spent time in France, and he studied food or cooking in Europe, and he brought it back to America. And he wrote down his recipes at Monticello, his estate, and that's probably that recipe that you made. I know Monticello, they have a lot of their recipes on their website. I have one of their books that's a cookbook, and it's all old recipes from James Hemings.Jenné: How was it?Suzy Chase: It was so bland, because they didn't use any salt.Jenné: Yeah, right, back then, can you imagine? So, the food back then was so much more bland, I think it's not until you really needed to combine. Mac and cheese, as soul food as it is, it is a European invention. He made it what it is, what that recipe is that you tasted, but it's definitely using all that cheese and the noodles, that's a European thing. But it wasn't until he brought it here and then folks started playing around with it and adding more flavor that it became what it is today, tasty, gooey mac and cheese.Jenné: But I think it was really necessary for this blending of culture. I mean, it is unfortunate the way that the cultures had to blend, but for these foods, these European foods to become tasty, they needed the African influence and the Native American influence.Suzy Chase: They sure did. So, your recipe for mac and "cheese" calls for sweet potatoes, lemon juice, and Dijon mustard, three flavors that never come up when I'm thinking about mac cheese. How did you create this recipe?Jenné: So, I played around with different mac and cheese recipes that I found on the internet and other cookbooks. My dad used to work at a famous vegan restaurant called A Soul Veg in Atlanta, and at Soul Veg, they make a mac and cheese. Everything they make is tofu, soy based. I love soy, but you don't have to use it for everything, very oily, very down-home vegan mac and cheese.Jenné: But I didn't want to do that. I wanted to make it a little healthier. I wanted to use whole foods, but you still need a lot of flavor. So, the mustard, the Dijon that I use and the lemon, it's to add tang. And then you also use nutritional yeast, which has a naturally cheesy flavor, but you can't just use it by itself. You need to add that tang that real cheese has. It's a different take on mac and cheese, really. Obviously, it has sweet potato in it, too, which is totally unexpected.Suzy Chase: Totally. It was light, though. It looks really heavy. I posted a picture on Instagram, but it is light.Jenné: Yeah, it is. Good.Suzy Chase: Where can we find you on the web and social media?Jenné: You can find me at sweetpotatosoul.com. That's my blog. There are hundreds of recipes, and on social media, you can find me at sweetpotatosoul, including YouTube. I have a big YouTube channel as well. So, YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, sweetpotatosoul.Suzy Chase: Thank you for writing this beautiful cookbook, and thank you for coming on Cookery by the Book podcast.Jenné: Thank you.Suzy Chase: Follow me on Instagram at CookerybytheBook. Twitter is IamSuzyChase, and download your Kitchen Mix Tapes, music to cook by on Spotify at Cookery by the Book and always, subscribe in Apple podcasts.

HI FRANDS. We’re all BFFs now, right?…Right? In this episode, we talk about how we make new friends as busy adults, how we sustain relationships beyond grabbing lunch or drinks, and how we build the kinds of communities that give us LIFE. We’re also joined by Girls’ Night In founder Alisha Ramos, who tells us how she built a company around a simple concept: connecting and celebrating women who’d rather stay in. > Book clubs are just magical, first of all, because books are amazing. But, second of all, it creates a really interesting common ground for everyone… You’re all showing up because you read the same thing, and you are starting off with that common thing and you end up picking up little pieces of the other person’s life as she’s describing how she read the book and interpreted it, and then it kind of like takes the pressure off. > > —Alisha Ramos, founder of Girls’ Night In Here’s what we covered (and as always, you can find the full transcript below). Show notes Did you know that Sara and Katel first bonded over crab fries? That a full 50 percent of the city of Philadelphia knows each other through Jenn? Well, now you will. We also talk about: How great friends are also generous with their friends Why you have to get over the fear of rejection when trying to keep adult friendships alive Why loneliness is bad for your health Then, we catch up with Alisha Ramos, who tells us how she quit her job last year to start Girls’ Night in, a newsletter for ladies who’d rather skip the party, thanks. Now GNI boasts more than 30,000 members. We bond over: The magic of book clubs—especially when your new book BFFs also invite you to a potluck Celeste Ng’s excellent second novel, Little Fires Everywhere Relaxing, relaxing, and more relaxing—Alisha recommends watching The Crown and re-watching I, Tonya (and if you hate Tonya Harding, read this first). Also in this episode: Thanks to a reader recommendation, Katel’s back in the fiction game with Manhattan Beach by Jennifer Egan. Did you know that Tinder for moms is a thing? (It’s called Peanut.) It’s reboot time in Hollywood! Still! Apparently! First up: get your blazers pressed: Murphy Brown is back, baby! Let’s hope Dan Quayle doesn’t show up to shame her again. An Overboard reboot is also coming, which we’re not feeling great about, given that the plot centers around tricking a woman with amnesia into being your wife—as a comedy! What the world really needs is some of that patented Sugarbaker Sass. Sponsors This episode of NYG is brought to you by: Shopify, a leading global commerce platform that’s building a diverse, intelligent, and motivated team—and they  want to apply to you. Visit shopify.com/careers to see what they’re talking about. _WordPress—the place to build your personal blog, business site, or anything else you want on the web. WordPress helps others find you, remember you, and connect with you. _ Transcript Sara Wachter-Boettcher Like you, Shopify isn’t a fan of long, boring ads. So they’ll keep it simple. They’re hiring great people. Their mission: to make commerce better for everyone. Shopify is the leading global commerce platform for entrepreneurs and they want to apply to you. Join a diverse, intelligent, and motivated team where you’ll get shit done. Visit shopify.com/careers to see what they’re talking about. [Music fades in] Jenn Lukas Hi! Welcome to No, You Go, [music fades out] the show about being ambitious—and sticking together. I’m Jenn Lukas. Katel LeDû I’m Katel LeDû. SWB And I’m Sara Wachter-Boettcher. JL On today’s show we’re talking about developing relationships and going beyond the quick work lunch or happy hour type of friendship. How do we create deeper connections with people we know and that we want in our lives now that we’re adults, professionals, mothers, activists, multi-taskers—you get the idea. How do we seek out these deeper types of friendships? We’ll also talk with Girls’ Night In founder, Alisha Ramos, about building a community of women, and how she makes space for meaningful relationships in her life. But first on the agenda: hey, Katel, will you be my friend? KL I would love to be your friend. You know, I remember the first time we really hung out and met. We were both at Converge. We started sort of following each other around to the different things people were doing and I had seen you speak and I was like—I really wanted to hang out with you and it was cool that I met you at a conference because it’s always good to have a conference buddy. And I also remember the first time Sara and I really hung out, it involved crab fries, which is very important to the Philadelphia region. She missed a pottery class, I think? Just to keep talking with me, which I felt super special for, and then I think that just was a natural progression into taking over the world. SWB Totally! I remember meeting Jenn through conferences and stuff like that but then, one day right after I moved to Philadelphia, I thought, “You know? I’m going to email Jenn Lukas. I don’t know her very well but she seems very cool, maybe she’ll hang out with me.” [Laughter] And I emailed her and, lo and behold, Jenn lived two blocks from where we had just moved in. Like literally two blocks away. And so immediately, you know, we made plans to get together, and I will say that being new to a place, Jenn and Sutter, her husband, were like—you guys were, honestly, so welcoming, and it was so wonderful because I feel like through you we met so many other people. You were very generous with sharing those friendships that you had with us— KL Aw. SWB —at a time when I think we really needed that. We’d spent a couple of years, you know, moving around and not sure where we were going to land long-term after my husband finished graduate school. And so it was not just that we really connected, but it was also that generosity that I think was so valuable to me. And I really hope that I paid that forward by the time Katel moved to Philly [laughter] and we were sharing crab fries, because I remember sitting there and just being like, OK, we’re not just having professional drinks. We’re hanging out now. It’s on. This is—you know—we’re going to be here for a while.” JL It’s so nice. Wow. I’m having all the feels, ladies [background “aws”]. It’s so nice and I think the other thing is, you know, we make friends through conferences, we make friends through meetups, we make friends through these activities, and lots of times I think we meet people and then we’re like, “Ah man, I really dug hanging out with them,” but then it doesn’t happen again. Maybe you live someplace else. But I think one of the things that was really awesome with both of you is that we maintained a level of correspondence that when you both happened to move to Philadelphia I was like, “Yes!” SWB No, but I think it’s important to put that kind of, I don’t know, a little bit more work in, I guess you would say, because we’re not in college anymore. We’re, um, a couple of years outside of college, and one of the things that happens is everybody gets busy with their own lives. You have a partner, maybe, or you have children, and your career gets demanding, and I travel for work a lot. And so it gets harder to match up schedules, it’s harder to find time to consistently see people, and you have to prioritize that, and I’m really glad that I have friends who do prioritize that also because I feel like we always make the time. And we always—you know, we don’t make a big deal out of hanging out, right? Like we make it a consistent thing that we do without having to make it super formal and it doesn’t have to be like, “Oh I’m throwing a dinner party.” KL Because of our proximity we can kind of do things on the fly which is really cool. And, I mean, it wass so important for me moving from DC to Philly. I knew I knew some people sort of and I had no idea whether I’d be able to be rebuild a network and it happened, I think, so much faster because of exactly what you said, Jenn. [5:00] And also I feel like as you get older you sort of know you’re going to be friends with people. The people you know you’re like, “OK, these are just going to be acquaintances or not as close relationships.” You’re a little quicker to be like, “All right [chuckles], I know the camps now.” You know? JL I think it also helps to never take a scheduling mishap as something that means that we can’t hang out. So I think lots of times with schedules, you’ll ask someone to hang out and they’ll be like, “I can’t,” and then you don’t follow-up. And I think that we all have very busy schedules but we’re never like, “Oh, that must mean that Katel doesn’t want to hang out with me because she’s not available.” And getting over this like — you get these flashbacks from high school of like trying to be friends with people, right? [Laughter] And you’re just like, “No! It’s not that.” And I think that I’m so much more quick to get over that now because I can imagine myself being in the space where I’ve wanted to hang out with people but I couldn’t make it work and it wasn’t that I was avoiding them or doing these things that I feel like we still get self conscious about, sometimes, with building friendships. You know you have to put in that time. SWB Right. It’s not like, “Oh, I invited Jenn to do something twice and she turned me down both times, so now I won’t say anything again. I have to sit here on my hands and wait for her to call me.” You know? I definitely don’t feel that way. I’m like, “Ok, Jenn’s got a lot going on and—” KL I’m just going to ask her a third time. SWB Yeah [laughter]! Third time’s a charm. You know but I’m really glad that we’re all kind of on the same page about this and also able to talk about it because I’ve read all of those studies about how people report that their loneliness levels are really high and particularly as people move into middle-age and that there’s a lot of studies that show that things like the more socially isolated you are, the more likely you are to have health problems, and the more likely you are to actually die prematurely. It’s kind of morbid, but it’s true that loneliness is this really big factor in people’s health that is not that well understood. And the other thing that happens with loneliness is apparently it’s something that’s really common with men. Like men are much less likely to sustain the kinds of relationships that we’re talking about into their middle-age and later and as a result you’ve got these generations of lonely middle-aged who are super isolated. And it’s causing them all kinds of issues and I think that even though that’s more prevalent in men, I mean that’s not something we can ignore for ourselves either because we’re all, like I said, ambitious and busy and have a lot going on in our professional lives that it would be easy to not make time to do that deep friendship stuff. It’d be easy to have that happen and not realize it’s happened until you have been doing it for years and you’re really fucking lonely. JL Yeah. KL Right. This is why it’s important that we make some early plans for the friend compound that we’ve talking about. JL Oh my god! Yes! KL And we can invite our husbands, obviously, if, you know— SWB Meh. JL It’s going to be some kind of farm, right? KL Uh, absolutely. Yes. With a vineyard of some kind. SWB So the friendship compound is like—it’s pretty much what it sounds like — it’s a large facility, homestead, not sure, where we can all bring all of our besties down and form a new, totally not cult-like [laughter] society. KL I think we found a new direction for the show. I don’t know [laughter]. JL Oh no, we’ve tricked people into something they were not expecting here. SWB I said it wasn’t cult-like! It’s fine. KL OK. All right [laughs]. SWB This whole conversation about friendships and sort of like the way that we form connections and keep those connections strong, I think, is a really good way to introduce our guest for today, because I think she’s going to have a lot to say about that, too, and I am so excited to hear it [music fades in]. Thanks to our sponsors JL [Music fades out] No, You Go is proud to be sponsored by wordpress.com. Whether you’d like to build a personal blog, a business site, or both, creating a website on wordpress.com helps others find you, remember you, and connect with you. In fact, we use WordPress here for NYG. You don’t even need experience setting up a website. WordPress guides you through the process from start to finish, and takes care of the technical side. They also have great customer support available 24 hours a day. Plans start at just four dollars a month, and you can always get a custom domain for the life of the plan. Go to wordpress.com/noyougo to get 15 percent off your website today. That’s wordpress.com/noyougo [music fades in]. Interview: Alisha Ramos KL [Music fades out] our guest today is Alisha Ramos, the founder of Girls’ Night In, which started as a newsletter for women who’d rather stay in tonight, something I think we’re all drawn to in many ways, and has turned into so much more. Alisha, we can’t wait to hear about. Welcome to No, You Go! Alisha Ramos Thanks so much for having me! KL We’re so excited to talk all about this. Can we kick off by having you tell us a little bit more about Girls’ Night In and just how it came to be. [10:00] AR So Girls’ Night In, as you mentioned, started off as a newsletter for women who’d rather stay in tonight, and now it’s become more of a community of women now. What we do is we send a Friday morning newsletter every week to over, I think we’re now at 30,000 subscribers, mostly millennial women across the US and across the globe, and we kind of share smart reads for you to read during your night in or things like recommendations for you to do, whether it’s watching a TV show that we love or a podcast that we’re loving. So that’s kind of how it started and now we’ve gotten this amazing community of women around it from all corners of the globe. We have readers in Charleston, South Carolina, to Barcelona to London and, you know, our mission at Girls’ Night In is to help women relax, recharge, and cultivate more meaningful community in a world that’s increasingly stressful and lonely [KL laughs]. So one really cool thing that kind of sprung up very organically is our book club. So we do a monthly book club meetup in seven cities now. And that’s been a really amazing way for our community to gather and really live out the mission of Girls’ Night In. This kind of community of women that want to create better connections with one another. KL That’s amazing! I feel like that’s seems like such a beautiful and natural progression of things. What was it about fostering deeper connections than, say, going to drinks or having a quick coffee that you made you decide to kick this into gear? AR I was looking at how we live our lives today. Like I’m in my later twenties and the idea of going out no longer really appeals to me [laughing][KL laughs] for various reasons. I have a hard bedtime now of like 9:30pm I need to be in bed. But I think our relationships are changing so quickly; society is changing; mental health issues are on the rise; rates of loneliness are increasing in our society that’s always on. Like we are so entangled with technology now that we’re kind of burnt out from all of that. And looking at my habits of how I want to spend my time with my friends, I found myself hosting more gatherings that are intimate and cozy in my home versus wanting to go out. So I think Girls’ Night In encapsulates this whole movement of women who would rather spend the time taking care of themselves and developing better relationships, not just with themselves, but with other women, like their friends. And it’s very timely. When Girls’ Night In started the presidential inauguration had just occurred. There was this kind of overwhelming sense of stress and anxiety among my friends, and I’m sure just like the world in general. So, especially with the news cycle being completely unrelenting, people were searching for a break from all of that and I think Girls’ Night In became the answer for a lot of people. Like they’ll write in and say, “I didn’t know that I needed this, but I definitely needed Girls’ Night In in my life because it helps me remind myself that it’s OK to take care of myself and take a break from everything else that’s going on in the world.” KL That’s—yeah. That’s amazing. It sounds like you’ve had some questions that were kind of cycling around in your head that made you, you know, look into that a little bit more— AR Yeah. KL —and one of them was about disconnecting from tech. I personally find that so challenging. In what ways would you like to explore that with this community? AR Our February theme is going to be techno self-care. So, you know, technology—we never want to pit technology as the enemy because it can be used for good, it can be used for bad. I think overall we’re all very overwhelmed with technology and media and the news right now and it can be unhealthy. KL Yeah. AR In terms of how to disconnect from technology, the one thing that we are doing as a community is encouraging people to get offline and meet each other [laughing] in real life, especially, you know, for women in their twenties. It’s such an awkward time where—especially where I’m from, in DC, it’s a very transient city. There’s people coming in and out and I feel like we’ve forgotten how to meet new friends and make new connections. KL [Exhales sharply] right. AR Yeah, I really don’t know what I would do to make new friends besides go to a [laughing] networking event. It feels kind of awkward. [15:00] So one way we encourage our community members to disconnect is to join us at our monthly book club meetings and that’s— KL Sure. AR You’re getting away from your screen, it kind of feels like you’re doing something for yourself, and it’s a way to, not escape reality—but sometimes! It depends on what you read. It can be an escapist type of ritual. So that in and of itself is a really great self-care tool. But then when you add on top of that the act of gathering around a common book that you’ve read and really enjoyed, you get to create these really cool conversations and connections with each other and that’s the kind of feature that I would hope to build with Girls’ Night In where, you know right now we’re always on Instagram, we’re liking each other photos, but what does being social even mean anymore in this age of social media? I don’t like the future that I see in five to 10 years. We’re really just trying to recreate a more intimate sense of community. JL Hey Alisha, what kind of books do read at the book club? AR Our general guidelines are that we read books that are authored by women from diverse backgrounds and we read both fiction and non-fiction. So most recently we read Little Fires Everywhere by Celeste Ng which was my favorite book. SWB I’m in the middle of it right now! AR Oh my god! It’s such a treat! SWB It’s so good! AR It’s so good, yeah. I just savored every word. It was so good. So, yeah, we try to focus on stories that are authored by women who can bring something interesting, something unique that we can discuss as a community. We’ve also read a couple of non-fiction. Like Too Loud, Too Fat, Too Slutty— KL Wow. AR —by Anne Helen Petersen. That one was a little polarizing actually [laughs] in our community. Some people loved it, some people hated it, but that’s kind of what the beauty of the book club is: we want books that spark conversation. KL Yeah. I feel like now—I just joined a book club. So maybe I just need to join Girls’ Night In and find one [laughing]—find one to meet up [laughs]. JL Have you found that people that have come to the book club will make plans together afterwards? Like are you seeing that a lot of people are forging friendships from the book club? AR Yes, definitely. We, at every book club, we basically have to force people out the door [laughing] because they want to continue having conversations and that’s really, really the coolest thing that I’ve seen. So we have private Facebook groups for everyone who has attended a book club for each city. And our New York community—there’s one woman who was like, “Hey, I’m relatively new to the city. I really enjoyed meeting all of you at book club. Would you want to start a potluck dinner thing?” And I think she was—she asked this and I think she was expecting maybe like five people to respond but, I kid you not, like 40 people signed up for this thing [chuckles], and she was like, “OK, woah. I think we’re going to have to now split up into five different friend groups—” JL That’s amazing. AR “—to do like a potluck rotation.” So it’s been really cool to see friendships like that and conversations like that start. KL Yeah. SWB Something I really love about that story is that it speaks to the way that like once you kind of tear off the bandaid of making friends, like once you go, “Ok! I’m going to go the book club,” once you’ve done that, then the doors open a little bit and then suddenly it’s a little easier to invite— AR Yeah! SWB —a bunch of women you’ve never met before out to do something. I think sometimes that’s hard when we’re, you know, we’re all busy, everybody has a lot going on, scheduling is the worst. And to try to forge that deeper connection with somebody while juggling all the other things that we seem to do because we’re ambitious and whatnot. It can feel like too much of a barrier. So I love the idea of sort of lowering that barrier for people. AR Absolutely! Definitely! And like book clubs are just magical, first of all, because books are amazing. But, second of all, it creates a really interesting common ground for everyone. Like you’re going in and it’s not like a scary networking event where like, “Oh my gosh! What am I going to say? What am I going to ask people?” You’re all showing up because you read the same thing and you are starting off with that common thing and you end up picking up little pieces of the other person’s life as she’s describing how she read the book and interpreted it and then it kind of like takes the pressure off a little bit—of trying to make small talk, which I personally really dislike. [20:00] I’m a very highly introverted person and I think as a result I would rather have those deeper conversations with people and skip the like, “Oh yeah, where are you from?” “How’s the weather?” “The weather’s really cold.” So I think having that commonality and as a discussion starter has been really, really cool. KL Yeah I really want to know how have you kept Girls’ Night In on even keel as it’s grown so quickly? How are you leaning on your friends and other Girls’ Night In-ers to help with that? AR I mean Girls’ Night In is very new in my mind. I quit seven months ago, in June. So it still feels like it’s in its very early, early stages. So as a result like I basically don’t sleep or I—well there was a good period of time where I was not getting a [laughing] lot of sleep, essentially. But now I’m getting definitely better at delegating, finding people who are way better at doing things than I am — which has been probably the key part of keeping this thing going. I do work with a lot of really talented individuals who help me with editorial, the community side of things, we have amazing book club hosts in all of our cities, partnerships, like technology, everything. So it’s been really cool to grow Girls’ Night In from just me to this team of really awesome people who help out. KL Yeah, absolutely. So speaking of making that move from what you were doing before Girls’ Night In, it’s funny: I’ve read you describe yourself as a Type A person needing to have a plan for everything and [AR laughs] to me that’s like, I raise my hand and I’m like, “Hey, hello! That’s me.” Do you remember the moment you decided to jump into that and start something new even if it meant you might not know exactly what that was going to look like? AR I didn’t have that one day or like a-ha moment where I knew that I wanted to do this. So Girls’ Night In—I had the luxury of the fact that I started it as a side project while I had a full-time job. So that kind of gave me a cushion of like, “OK, I can do this and see if it becomes a thing and then I might make the decision, but if it doesn’t, then I’m OK. Like I can keep my job.” So I launched it in January and then kept it a side project for six months or so and it kept growing and growing and eventually—I don’t know if you’ve ever done like a full-time job with like a side hustle or something, but eventually you get to a point where you’re just like [laughing], I’m really tired of doing my full-time job. I get off at 6, and then you go into like your second shift of doing the other thing from 6pm to god knows when, like midnight or 1am. And that’s really unsustainable, like physically or it was for me at least. KL Yeah for sure. AR The second thing that helped me understand that like, “Oh, maybe I should take the leap,” is that I started to get really amazing feedback from people and I would hear from my friends who live in California or New York that they were having a conversation with a random stranger, somebody that they just met, and they would say, “Oh, have you heard about this newsletter called Girls’ Night In? I just signed up,” and I think that really helped me understand, “Oh, this could become a really big thing if somebody I’ve never met in California is talking about it— 23:40 KL That is so cool. AR “—and actively sharing it with their friends.” KL That’s yeah — that’s amazing. Cool. Can you give us a little sneak peek at what’s next for Girls’ Night In? AR Our newsletter is our main product right now. So I’m focusing on building out the right team for that, more solidifying our editorial strategy around that, and just growing our audience and growing our brand I think will be a key focus for the next couple of months. You know everything we do ladders back—or should ladder back to our broader mission of helping women relax, recharge, and cultivate community. So we did do a little experiment with launching our own products and, you know, my background is as a web designer. So designing physical products was actually really, really fun for me. So I think you can expect to see some more things along those lines and then the third piece is I personally have gotten so much out of our community in real life through the book clubs and that has been just so fun to grow and watching the reaction to the book club has been amazing. [25:00] We’re now at the point where people get frustrated if they can’t get a ticket to one of our book clubs because they sell out pretty quickly [chuckles]. So we definitely want to make sure that we can expand the book clubs in cities where maybe the demand is really high and look at how else we grow that side of things. KL Well I have one final question for you, and it’s how are you going to relax and recharge this week? AR I recently watched the movie I, Tonya and I loved it so much that I might go back and watch it again [laughs]. I also have been binge watching The Crown on Netflix— KL Yes. AR —and I really love historical dramas so that’s been—it’s just such a good show to binge watch and just chill out. And I’m also kind of revamping my skincare routine right now. I’m a huge beauty junky. So I’m doing a lot of research in trying to find the perfect moisturizer for the winter. So yeah lots of skincare and lots of The Crown. KL That sounds excellent. SWB I can’t wait to hear about that best skincare for the winter because I tell you what [AR laughs]: it has been dry and cold and— KL Yeah. We’re all struggling here. AR Yeah. [KL laughs] we’ll write something up. KL We will definitely read that. Thank you so much for talking with us today. AR Thank you. KL It was really great to hear a little bit more about what you’re up to and, yeah, thank you so much! [Music fades in.] AR Yeah, of course! Thanks so much for having me. JL [Music fades out] I kept thinking when Alisha was talking about the book club that would help what we were talking about in the bonus episode where you were finding a lack of books to read, right Katel? KL Yeah. That was so fun. I was thinking about it the other day because thanks, listeners, for listening to that because I got some really nice recommendations for books to read and it has actually really inspired me to really do this. So I am buying those books, I even found the crumby charger to my Kindle. I’m going to really do it for real. So I’m very excited and it was really nice to hear these recommendations from different friends who have very different, I think, interests and likes. SWB Yeah, if you didn’t listen to our bonus episode: one of the things that came up is that Katel admitted she hadn’t read a book except for the ones that she’s physically publishing for a little while and she was feeling a little bit bummed about that. So I’m excited to see what you read. Do you have a book that you want to pick up first? KL I think I’m going to pick up Manhattan Beach by Jennifer Egan because I’ve just liked her work, and I didn’t really realize that there was something new from her. So that was really cool. SWB Yeah, yeah, I mean oftentimes I’ll read a book by an author and I’ll be like, “Ooh! That was pretty good,” and then their next book is the one that really gets me. That’s something I really found with Celeste Ng, the author of the book Little Fires Everywhere that we talked about in Alisha’s interview. I read her first book and I thought it was pretty good, but the second book has been just amazing. And so hopefully you’ll find the same with Jennifer Egan. JL I love the conversations that people have around books. I mean just looking at the two of you right now: you’re getting really excited when you’re talking about it and so that’s what I think is so neat about things like book clubs is it gives you — it’s an instant conversation starter. And I think it’s interesting to think about is the way that we could build friendships. It’s weird I’ve heard this but I never realized it before: becoming a mom is like an instant conversation starter, which is weird and it doesn’t like—I thought it would’ve felt forced, because people have told me that before, but it’s not. Whenever you have a passion about a book or like a complaint about a diaper, there’s just something to talk about with someone. And I love these ideas of not being scared of that. That you’re like—happen to just be in the same sort of population, but being like, “This is a way for me to start talking to someone.” You know, trying to find those groups. Someone just was telling me—my friend Beth was just saying that there’s now a Tinder for moms [yup mm hmm]. But you know it’s hard if you’re in areas where you’re finding it hard to meet other moms, or finding it hard to just meet other women, or finding it hard to meet people that also love the same books that you do. How do you do it? Right? So as much as like, I’m like, “Wow, that’s crazy they made that.” I mean if it’s a way for you to connect with people, then I think it’s really cool. SWB Yeah I think that that’s something that Alisha was definitely talking a lot about was this difficulty of making and sustaining friendships as an adult. I think something like a book club is a great way to do that, but other ways that I’ve definitely found is getting involved in something local or something political. I know that that can be a great way to get to know people. But it’s also, you know, it takes a little bit to get comfortable with getting out there and getting beyond that initial spark of conversation where it’s like, “OK, we support the same candidate.” Or “We both have a kid.” [30:00] Or “We both like the same book.” But going from that to being like, “OK, we need to get into that substantive conversation where we really connect,” is not always easy. But the more that I try to open up a little bit and allow it to happen, I feel like I get better at it. It’s a habit you can learn or a skill you can learn. JL Yeah, when my son was born I was feeling very much like I had a lot of friends with kids, luckily, who I can ask their advice but no one was exactly at the same age as my son. I’m on a message board, it’s a Google mailing list for local moms or local parents in the area and sometimes people will start mom groups or parent that you can meet up and they’ll be like, you know, “Winter Moms,” “Spring Moms,” stuff like that. And there hadn’t been one when Cooper was born. But, so, a few other people expressed interest and I was like, “Well I guess I’m starting this.” And I remember thinking like, “Oh good, I won’t have to start something,” but then when it wasn’t there, I was like, “Ok, I’m going to start it.” And I mean it was just a meetup at a coffee shop nearby, once a week. But you know you just put it on the board, you say, “Here’s where we’re meeting.” And you start a mailing list and you know once you get over the fact that you have to just make that initial effort, you can do it pretty fast, and then show up, and meet people, and from there I’ve kept in touch with a few people but stayed like really close with two moms. And like that of course didn’t happen magically but one of the things I loved leaving there one day Rachel, my friend, was like, “Do you want to just meet up and take a walk someday?” And I was like, “Yes, I would love to walk with you someday.” [Laughter] And I just thought it was so cool that she asked. And that’s the whole thing is just getting over that fear — SWB It’s weird, right? To feel like you risk rejection in the same way that you wouldn’t want to tell somebody you were interested in dating that you like them. It kind of feels the same. Where’s it’s like, “Do they actually want to be my friend?” KL Right, yeah. JL Go for it! KL Yeah, go for it. SWB What the hell else are we doing with our lives? Well I think it’s about time to move into what is, I don’t know, maybe my favorite segment? Which is of course The Fuck Yeah of the Week. Fuck Yeah of the Week So I have a Fuck Yeah for the week that I hope you all are excited about. My Fuck Yeah is the upcoming reboot of Murphy Brown [yes!][oh my gosh!] starring Candice Bergen. I don’t know how many of you listening were Murphy Brown fans back in the day. I, as a child, in the nineties, was definitely a Murphy Brown fan. I liked her kind of tough-as-nails persona. She was a news anchor, and she wasn’t taking shit from anybody. But there was a huge hubbub over Murphy Brown when the character on the show was going to have a baby out of wedlock. And Dan Quayle got real upset about that, and there was a whole discussion about sort of the morality of single motherhood and choosing single motherhood as being something that was somehow inherently evil. And it was quite something. I’m super hyped to see what this reboot does with that entire concept because one hopes we are a lot further along now in terms of how we conceive of parents and what makes a family and what’s OK for a family to be than we were in the nineties. Although, at the same time, I think about all of the kind of sexist shit that that show was really tattling and I’m like, “Man, we’re still kind of right in it, though!” KL Yeah, we totally are. I remember watching that show and thinking that was one of the first times I had seen a character like that—that I could actually have seen myself becoming. And I know that I mean it was sort of in like a dreamscape kind of thing [laughs]. SWB No, no, no! Whenever we say Murphy Brown I do picture you [laughter]. KL It’s just—you kind of were like, “She’s smart. She has her shit together. And she’s also going to have a family. And why not? Why couldn’t I do that?” I hope that that was a lot of people who felt that way. It’s so fucking awesome that it’s coming back. SWB I mean I’m not always necessarily a fan of these reboot series, you know? I tried to watch the Will & Grace reboot on the plane the other day. I mean I was curious. I didn’t really expect it to be great. So I turned it on on the plane and then about 30 seconds I was like, I don’t think I can handle this because the [sighs]—the representations of gay people did not feel like they had evolved at all in the intervening years, and I think that that’s what really hit me. That this way of talking about, you know, queerness 10 years ago or whatever—or 15 years ago—that maybe seemed progressive then, or seemed new to be able to talk about it at all, felt very dated and felt very out of sync with the realities of all of the queer people’s lives that I know. [35:00] And so I was like, “This is just uncomfortable and also just not funny.” So I’m not necessarily somebody who thinks everything needs to be rebooted and I hope that the Murphy Brown reboot goes well. But I’m just excited for a new generation of people to learn about Murphy Brown and to look up to somebody who is so badass. JL What other shows would you want to see rebooted? SWB OK, so I want to see a Designing Women reboot, and that’s another one where—you know we watched an old episode of Designing Women recently and it had some amazing stuff in it, the premise of that particular episode is that the ladies were considering taking on a client to redecorate their— JL Brothel. SWB Brothel, yeah. So, um, there was a lot going on. There were some differing opinions about whether or not prostitution was good or bad, or OK for women or not Ok for women. And I think at the time that show was seen as being pretty progressive and really pushing the envelope on a lot of women’s issues, and similarly to Will & Grace you would find if you listened to a lot of those episodes that there would be some attitudes that feel pretty out of sync now. But the idea of there being this sassy group of women who come from really different backgrounds and have some pretty different perspectives and who are also pursuing their professional lives together—the idea of that being an ensemble cast, I think, makes a lot of sense. JL It’s interesting to think about these shows that have reboots. It’s like they almost want a reboot as a chance to redeem themselves. If they look back and cringe at some of the stuff now and I find myself thinking about this a lot. Like, what am I saying now that in 20 years I’m going to be like, “I can’t believe I said that.” SWB Shit! I think about that all the time: about stuff I’m saying I’m going to regret in like 20 minutes [laughter]. JL That’s also true. But like thinking about things that they’re redoing now. Like they’re remaking the movie Overboard. And I don’t know if you remember the movie Overboard— KL [Gasps] what?!? JL Right? Because at first when I thought about this I was like, “Oh I loved the movie Overboard,” but then when you get back into it, it’s essentially like a two-hour movie about like roofie-ing someone. It’s awful. Basically Goldie Hawn gets a concussion, loses her memory, and Kurt Russell convinces her that she’s his wife to take care of the children! SWB There’s a lot of like real normalization of very rapey ideology that goes on in a lot of these movies and that’s—it’s both reflecting what was accepted in the culture at the time and also kind of driving that. That reinforces such outdated, but also just plain abusive, attitudes. And I hope that we get more and more honest about some of those problems. Like it’s not to say that you can never watch some eighties movie again, but I think that that when we do we need to be like, “Wait a second.“ You know one thing I’m really thankful for is the continued education I get to have from people with different backgrounds, different perspectives than I have who are allowing me to see how much I didn’t used to see, right? How much media I would just kind of passively consume without realizing what was at play. And so the more that we have these kinds of conversations and we talk about what’s going wrong, the more effectively we can both critically analyze the media of the past, and then also push for better representation in the future. KL Amen. JL Fuck yeah Murphy Brown! KL Fuck yeah. SWB Fuck yeah Murphy Brown! I’m going to get myself like a blazer with some shoulder pads to celebrate [yes!][fade out]. Outro SWB That’s it for this week’s episode of No, You Go, the show about being ambitious and sticking together. If you like what you’ve been hearing, please go ahead and give us a rating or even a review on iTunes. No, You Go is recorded in our home city of Philadelphia, and our theme music is by The Diaphone. Our producer is Steph Colbourn and you can find us online at noyougoshow.com or on Twitter @noyougoshow. Thanks to Alisha Ramos for being our guest today. We’ll be back [music fades in] next week with another new episode [music ramps up to end].

David: Can social media really be 'done for you' or do you have to retain control over your own voice? How do you use Instagram and Pinterest as marketing channels and why are some businesses using Squarespace instead of Wordpress? Those are just three of the questions that I intend to ask my especial guest today, Jenn dePaula. Jenn, welcome to DMR. Jenn: Hello, thank you for having me. David: Well, thank you very much for joining us. Well, Jenn is the co-founder of Mixtus Media, a Nashville-based social media and content marketing firm that specializes in serving authors and book publishers. Jenn, I'm interested, why do you actually end up focusing on the publishing industry in terms of where you offer you services? Jenn: Well, we initially started, I got my career started off in the music industry back in 2000. 2000 was really kind of a turning point for the music industry in turning into a more digital focused industry. I think they clawed and heaved their way up the hill of digital publishing and it seems like it's still going on just that battle of physical content which is the CD and just other items that musicians sell to the digital frontier. For the first 10 years of my career, we were really going through with musicians how the best market their content, their music to in a digital form and just the struggles and the lessons learned through that, we started noticing that our authors are going through much of the same thing. Over the last few years, just with Kindle coming along on the Nook and all these other digital devices for people to consume books, they were going through many of the same struggles that musicians were going through even five years ago. Through our experience with working with musicians and obviously the book world and the music world are different beasts, but they serve an audience that's consuming their product digitally. It's really, it's been an education not only for publishers, but also for authors as well because they aren't used to having to market themselves. They aren't used to having avenues such as social media and blogs and other digital ways to connect with people. Usually, they just had to hand off their manuscript to a publisher and that was that.