Strong Feelings

Strong Feelings is ending—but we're excited to bring you the first episode of our new show, “Per My Last Email.” If you like what you hear, make sure you subscribe on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, or Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts—or visit the show at PMLEshow.com.—You deserve an equitable, actionable, and thoughtful performance review. So how do you move forward when you get…something else entirely? That's what we're tackling in our very first episode. Listen in as Jen and Sara coach people through big dilemmas—and even bigger feelings—about the wild and weird world of performance reviews. You'll leave with new tools to help you rebound after unfair or unexpected feedback…or at least some good stories for the group chat.    Links:Common cognitive distortions at workThe 40 Best Questions to Ask in an InterviewGot a work situation eating away at you? Send it to us! Submit your dilemma at PMLEshow.com.

Hey, Strong Feelings fans! We've decided to retire the show…so we can focus on a brand-new one! It's called Per My Last Email, and we cannot wait for you to hear it. The first episode comes out April 13, so if you like this trailer, make sure to subscribe now on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, or Stitcher—or visit PMLEshow.com to get the details. Here's what it's all about! Enjoy! —Sara –How can I get my boss to advocate for me and have my back? Should I disclose my disability? Why can't I juggle all of this work? Work raises a lot of questions—and too many of them get stuck in our heads, rattling around until we feel overwhelmed and unqualified. No more. Join hosts Sara Wachter-Boettcher and Jen Dionisio for this brand-new podcast designed to help you work through all the big feelings and confusing situations that come up at work. Each episode, they'll share real-life dilemmas listeners are struggling with—from how to respond to passive-aggressive emails to what to do when your boss gives you truly terrible feedback. Then they'll share the tools they use in their coaching sessions to help listeners get through whatever work throws their way.  Per My Last Email starts April 13—so subscribe now wherever you listen to podcasts. Because work gets weird. Sara and Jen can't wait to help you get through it. Submit a dilemma to the show--Theme music: “(I'm A) Modern Woman” by Maria TProducer: Emily DuncanCreated by: Active Voice

We've spent the past few months deep in a series on pandemic clarity—hearing intimate stories about people whose relationships to work have changed dramatically over the past two years. But the more we listened to others' stories, the more we realized…it was time to tell our own.In today's episode, Sara is joined by Active Voice operations manager and Strong Feelings producer, Emily Duncan, to talk about their own reckonings with work. From the founding of Active Voice during the pandemic to confronting exploitation in the music industry, they offer glimpses into the reality of being leadership works-in-progress.What we do is really tech and UX and UI focused. But I do think that there's a ton of overlap in multiple industries. And I see myself as having the ability to take some of what I've been learning here and bring it back, take that fire from the Greek gods and bring it back down and share it. If I can come and help educate even just one person on their rights and what they deserve, I think that it will have all been worth it.—Emily Duncan, Ops Manager at Active VoiceLinks:Emily Duncan“Work needs to stay in its place”Active Voice

What would you do if you found out you were being paid $25,000 less than your peers, and that while they were allowed to work from home, you were expected to show up in person? Kate Rotondo had both happen while working at one of the largest and best-known tech companies in the world, and the experience profoundly changed her relationship to work. Kate joins Sara to tell her story of institutional betrayal—and how it took her from working in code to working in clay.I had to let go of the responsibility of providing for my family. I had to let myself become expensive. I also had to shift my sense of what's important to me from getting my career back and earning that money to reclaiming my time—to becoming rich in something else, if it wasn't going to be career accolades, and it wasn't going to be respect at my job, and it wasn't going to be the money that came from that. I kind of had to shift and think, 'What I'm asking for here at work is to have the same lifestyle as my colleagues.' My colleagues wake up in the morning. They don't drive three hours to get to work…So how do I get that? How do I get the quality of life that the men around me have? How do I regain a sense of entitlement to that time? That I'm entitled to have free time. I'm entitled to have passions.—Kate Rotondo, founder, Equal ClayLinks:Kate RotondoEqual ClayBreak the Good Girl MythIGNITE: Design Your Creative PurposeBlind to BetrayalInstitutional BetrayalActive Voice

Joann Lee Wagner used to feel pretty guilty for taking breaks—until her organization decided to experiment with a new way of working: the four-day workweek. In the process, Joann had to do more than change her calendar. She had to rethink how she thought about work itself.Today we share the story of one person's, and one organization's, experience trying out a four-day week: Joann Lee Wagner, the VP of people operations at Common Future. They tested a four-day week in 2020, and have since made it permanent. Listen in as Joann walks through how their experiment came together, what they learned in the process, and how it changed Joann forever. I think of my grandmother who was an entrepreneur in San Francisco in Fisherman's Wharf, selling her candles and working so hard to make a living for her family and the health challenges that came after that. I think about how she wouldn't want me to be in a place of such constant stress and hardship, where I'm working myself to the bone just to live now. I think that she would really have wanted something else for me. And so it took a moment of reflection to really think about, "Where is that coming from?" in order to be able to even come into work in a four-day workweek context. Because at the end of the day, we are really challenging the assumptions around work that we as organizations carry, but also we as individuals.—Joann Lee Wagner, VP of people operations at Common FutureLinks:Joann Lee WagnerCommon FutureQualtrics: Most U.S. Employees Want a Four-day Work Week Even if it Means Working Longer Hourswww.4dayweek.comWhite Supremacy CultureWork needs to stay in its placeActive Voice

A year into the pandemic, Julie Threlkeld met with a leadership coach to talk about building her confidence in stakeholder meetings. And she left deciding what she actually needed was to retire early. Today on the show, Julie shares her story of leaving the tech workforce at age 56—and how keeping Future Julie in mind helped her get there. Sara also chats with Eugenié George, a financial wellness specialist and educator who specializes in helping women of color understand their money and their ancestry. She shares tips on how to manage your money to align with your values and financial goals.When I started working for myself, I had this vision of myself that I always called Future Julie, and Future Julie is the older version of myself…the person who's probably not going to get hired as a freelancer after a certain age, because that's just the reality. Or because she's too sick of trying to keep up with technology, or she's literally sick with something, or she just has other things to do with her life than meet other people's goals and trade your time for money. And that was always the person I was working toward supporting.—Julie ThrelkeldLinks:Julie ThrelkeldEugenié GeorgeWork needs to stay in its placeActive Voice

Who are you beyond the bio on your LinkedIn profile? In today's episode, we tell the story of Alison Taylor—a designer and strategist who went to great lengths to find that out.After being hospitalized due to extreme burnout and a toxic workplace, Alison knew that she needed a change. So she started a journey of healing and self-discovery spanning five years and three countries. And that's just the beginning.I just want to be me. I don't want to be "Alison: business designer/strategist, helping creative freelancers, early-stage startups, and folks design sustainable, unique products and systems that scale sustainably." I don't want to just be that. I'm so much more than that. And I felt like I was losing who I was….And then I realized, "Yo, you can unsubscribe from all of this.” Who's making up these rules? Everything is made up. And you don't have to subscribe to any of this. You can decide to be the person that you are, you can decide to use your voice.—Alison Taylor, founder, AugurLinks:Alison TaylorAugurCalifornia state workers' comp benefitsWork needs to stay in its placeActive Voice

We've all heard about pandemic burnout. But that's not the whole story. This season on Strong Feelings, we're focusing on pandemic clarity: how the past two years have changed people's relationships to work…for good. In February, we gathered detailed survey responses from 236 people working in tech and design. Our central question: How has your relationship to work changed in the past two years? The results of our research were just released in a new report called “Work needs to stay in its place”—available for download now at activevoicehq.com/research. We found that the pandemic didn't just upend people's daily routines. For many, it triggered a dramatic rethinking of their priorities and values at work. So that's what we're talking about this season. To kick things, Sara sits down with researcher Dr. Urszula Pruchniewska, who worked on the report, to discuss some of their findings.I think the pandemic set the stage for us being able to talk about stuff that we might have been feeling for a really long time but we didn't share with each other, or even share with ourselves. The idea of work being your passion and doing what you love is so prevalent throughout society that it's weird to say, "No. Work is just work." Especially in design and tech fields…where we are taught to have so much personal feelings around our work. —Dr. Urszula Pruchniewska, research consultantOver the next two months, we'll be sharing intimate stories with people who've experienced major changes to their mindsets, motivations, and relationships to work. You don't want to miss it. Links:Urszula PruchniewskaWork needs to stay in its placeActive VoiceThis episode features clips from KTVU FOX 2 San Francisco, Fox Business, NPR, and NPR

Everyone deserves to be treated with dignity, equity, and respect at work. The best way to do that? Unionize! Tech worker and organizer Nora Keller tells us how to get started. Nora Keller is a product manager at the New York Times and an organizer for the Times Tech Guild. The unit was formed earlier this year and is one in a growing movement of new tech-worker unions fighting for equity, transparency, and a seat at the table. Every worker, no matter where they work, or what they do, deserves an equitable, accountable, and transparent workplace. The working class is going to find its power through solidarity. It's not going to find it through division. And the truth is that the average tech worker has a lot more in common with a healthcare worker or a teacher than they do with the Jeff Bezoses of the world. —Nora Keller, organizer, Times Tech GuildWe talk about:How Nora got involved in the unionizing effortWhat the members of the Times Tech Guild are fighting to change in their workplaceHow a union is formed and the process to getting it recognizedHow to spot and prepare for common union-busting tacticsThe risks of organizing and how the danger is often greater for members of marginalized or underrepresented groupsPlus: in our last You've Got This of the year, Sara calls us to keep questioning our defaults in the workplace. How have your expectations of work changed this year, and what do you want to stop tolerating in 2022? For all this and more, check out https://www.activevoicehq.com/podcast.Links:Nora KellerTimes Tech GuildPrinceton Study: Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average CitizensJane McAleveyNational Labor Relations BoardCWA UnionOPEIU UnionIs this a General Strike?Active Voice

Design and tech events need more diverse lineups. But getting on stage? That's a big hurdle. Women Talk Design CEO Danielle Barnes joins us to talk about how to get over it by giving yourself “a soft place to practice.” Women Talk Design is on a mission to see a more diverse group of speakers onstage, and a more diverse group of leaders thriving in their workplaces. CEO Danielle Barnes shares her story of joining and building the organization from a speaker directory to a set of flagship programs and events designed to build a safe, welcoming community and  elevate the voices of women and non-binary people.One of the things that drives me to do this work is that I truly believe everyone should be able to see someone onstage—or leading a meeting, or in the books that they're reading—that looks like them, that has similar experiences to them, and think that that can be them as well.—Danielle Barnes, CEO, Women Talk DesignWe talk about:The evolution of Women Talk Design and how Danielle transitioned from volunteer to CEOThe power and necessity of public speaking and finding your voice How to find and hone your “why”The importance of seeing yourself represented onstage and in mediaThe myth of “waiting until you're ready”Plus: in this week's You've Got This, Sara offers tips for how to lower the stakes for yourself while practicing a new skill—whether speaking, listening, or anything else. Get more tools at https://www.activevoicehq.com/podcast.Links:Danielle BarnesWomen Talk DesignPresent Yourself Intensive (starting January 12)Active Voice

The pandemic broke our understanding of the world. How do we put the pieces together again? Samira Rajabi joins us to point the way—and it all starts with getting comfortable “sitting in the shit” with each other.Samira Rajabi is a researcher, writer, and assistant professor of media studies at the University of Colorado. Her work focuses on the intersection of trauma, social media, disability studies, and feminist theory, and her book, All My Friends Live in My Computer: Tactical Media, Trauma and Meaning Making, came out earlier this year.I think this impulse to compare comes from this sense that what you're going through is not legible to other people. So we often sort of demean our own suffering because we don't think that it's worthy in the eyes of society, or culture, or our peer group. I think the way to cope with that is to listen better. So rather than being in a space, where it's like, "Oh, you say you're suffering? Well, listen to my suffering," it's, "How might I hear what you're saying with a recognition of who you are, and where you're coming from, and what you need in the moment, and then also offer my testimony about where I am, and what I need, and who I am in the moment?"—Samira Rajabi, author, All My Friends Live in My ComputerWe talk about:How Samira's desire to understand her own experiences with trauma led her to working at the intersection of gender, disability, and  media studiesHow a brain tumor diagnosis and treatment led Samira to find online community, and how that community helped her process grief and traumaWhy comparing trauma is futile, and how to “sit in the shit” with the people in our lives instead The politics of trauma and traumatic experiences, and how power plays a role in who gets access to careWhat ambiguous grief is and why it mattersPlus: in this week's You've Got This, Sara offers ideas for how to listen more deeply and stop trying to “fix” things for the people in our lives. For more tools and practice tips for staying  present to others' pain, head over to https://www.activevoicehq.com/podcast.Links:Samira RajabiAll My Friends Live in My ComputerSamira's TEDx talkRonnie Janoff-Bulman: Shattered AssumptionsThe Body Keeps the ScorePauline Boss: Ambiguous LossCulture Study with Samira Rajabi and Anne Helen PetersenLisbeth Lipari: Listening, Thinking, BeingActive Voice

Take a moment to check in with your body—yeah, right now! Do you feel tension in your shoulders? A clench in your jaw? A heaviness in your chest? Those feelings have something to tell us—and it's time we tuned into them at work, says Alla Weinberg. Alla Weinberg is a work relationship expert and culture designer who coaches teams and leaders to build relationship intelligence skills, create cultures of safety and trust, and move past toxic work environments. She's also the author of A Culture of Safety: Building Environments Where People Can Think, Collaborate, and Innovate.What needs to change: we have to shift from this mechanistic mindset around work that people are cogs in a machine, or resources, or capital, and understand that we are biological creatures that get sick, that have chemical hormonal changes in our bodies, that have emotions, that are messy, honestly, in a lot of ways we're very messy, and design around that piece. That we have differences in ability in how we think, in how we function and start from that place. Because everything was designed around the idea that people are machines, and we're not.—Alla Weinberg, author, A Culture of SafetyWe talk about:Physical, emotional, and psychological safety at work How our feelings manifest in our bodies, and how recognizing these emotions helps us process them  How to create a true "safe space""Stress" as a euphemism for "fear"How the modern workplace was never designed for people who menstruate or get pregnant, and what needs to change to accommodate all bodies at workAlla's personal story of feeling unsafe at work and how the road to healing from trauma led to her finding her life's work Rituals and practices for processing feelings and fostering connectednessPlus: in this week's You've Got This, Sara walks us through how to do a body scan. For more on using this tool to release tension and feelings in our bodies, head over to https://www.activevoicehq.com/podcast.Links:Alla WeinbergA Culture of SafetySpoke and WheelActive Voice

When do white folks learn they're white? And how do they start to understand the scope of benefits that whiteness affords them? For Jessie Daniels, these uncomfortable questions are only the beginning.Jessie Daniels is a Faculty Associate at the Harvard Berkman Klein Center, a research associate at the Oxford Internet Institute, and a professor of Sociology, Critical Social Psychology, and Africana Studies at Hunter College and The Graduate Center at CUNY. She is a world-renowned expert on Internet manifestations of racism, and her latest book Nice White Ladies: The Truth about White Supremacy, Our Role in It, and How We Can Help Dismantle It is available now from Seal Press.I imagine there are people who are going to read this book and throw it against the wall. And that's okay. But I would just encourage you to pick it up again, after you've thrown it against the wall the first time, and keep reading and sit with the discomfort and also ask yourself, why are you uncomfortable? I would argue that, to the extent that white people are uncomfortable hearing what I have to say, and white women in particular, is because we're holding on to whiteness in some way. We want that to not be a problem. We want that to mean that we're innocent, that we're beautiful, that we're better than other people. And it just doesn't mean that. Let's let go of that idea of whiteness. —Jessie Daniels, author, Nice White LadiesWe talk about:How feminism and white supremacy often coexist and how “gender-only feminism” always ignores raceWhite women's complicity in slavery and its lasting effectsThe “meme-ification” of the Karen archetype and the real dangers they poseThe path Jessie took to discovering her own whitenessHow to divest from the culture of whitenessThe power, and necessity, of sitting in discomfortPlus: in this week's You've Got This, Sara discusses how white women hold onto whiteness in the workplace, and the hidden meaning in terms like “professionalism,” "culture fit,” and "niceness.” For more on reckoning with whiteness in your workplace, head on over to https://www.activevoicehq.com/podcast.Links:Jessie Daniels' websiteNice White LadiesRacism ReviewThey Were Her Property by Stephanie Jones-RogersCuster Died for Your Sins by Vine Deloria, Jr.The Red Record by Ida B. WellsLiving with Racism by Joe R. Feagin and Melvin P. SikesJasmine Stammes' talk,  “The 'Subjective' Researcher”Active VoiceMore resources on shame and resilience:Read Natasha Stovall's “Whiteness on the Couch”Find a local chapter of Standing Up for Racial Justice (SURJ)Attend Robin Schlenger's Shame Resilience Workshop or an Ambient Noise event

What if spending a few minutes each day touching a plant or staring into space could change your life? Paloma Medina has seen it happen—and tells us why it's the first step toward radical, equitable change. Paloma Medina is a management trainer, public speaker, coach, and entrepreneur who uses neuropsychology to help leaders develop more inclusive and equitable practices. She joins us to talk about trading cortisol addiction for life-affirming productivity, the power of tracking equity metrics on your team, and why she recommends everyone spend 5 minutes a day doing nothing.Inclusion is a sense of belonging. It is how we pick up signals from others that we are valued, liked, that we belong. That we have friends, that we've got people on our side. A ton of the work that I did in the beginning in researching equity and inclusion and how it intersected with the kind of manager trainer I could be was realizing there is all this neuropsychological research that shows that belonging is this absolute core need. Humans are wired to scan for it, protect it, and freak out fully if there's any threat to their inclusion.—Paloma Medina, management trainerWe talk about:How the neuropsychology of productivity relates to equity and inclusionHow to transition away from hustle culture and into life-affirming productivityThe difference between equity and inclusion How leadership can use the three E's of professional development to combat bias in the workplace: education, exposure, and experience How closing down Paloma's retail store,  11:11 Supply, helped her find a renewed sense of self-worth in the midst of uncertaintyThe power and protest of doing nothingThe BICEPS model of core needsPlus: in this week's You've Got This, Sara shares a post from Desiree Adaway on the connection between overwork and white supremacy: “White supremacy knows that when we're exhausted, we remain obedient. And when we're overworked, we tend to stay quiet.” For more on this topic, head on over to https://www.activevoicehq.com/podcast.Links:Paloma MedinaThe BICEPS modelThe Insight AllianceSense of Urgency Keeps Us DisconnectedActive Voice

Why do so many people mention Brock Turner's promising swim career, or the many Oscars Harvey Weinstein won—instead of focusing on the stories of their survivors? Why do women often feel guilty telling a mansplainer to stop? For Kate Manne, the answer to both comes down to a single concept: entitlement.Kate Manne is a professor, writer, and moral philosopher whose research aims to more closely define and combat various forms of misogyny. In her newest book, Entitled: How Male Privilege Hurts Women, Kate offers a bold new perspective on the ways in which men's entitlement to sex, power, knowledge, leisure, and bodily autonomy are used to police and disenfranchise women and other marginalized populations.It can really change the course of your life to say, "I do not have to feel bad for certain people, and I do not have to feel guilty for my refusal to prioritize the emotional needs of the most privileged people.” Rather, I can actually look toward people who are more marginalized, who are genuinely in need of my solidarity and support. So that's where it's both personally liberating not to feel those illicit sources of guilt and shame, and it can actually, I think, completely redirect where your moral energies go. Because so much of patriarchy, as well as white supremacy, is misdirecting moral emotions that are good things to have. It's good to be sympathetic, and compassionate, and empathetic in your life. But where those emotions get funneled, and in service of whom, that is something that often goes awry under white supremacist hetero-patriarchy.—Kate Manne, author of Entitled We talk about:Common forms of entitlement, and how privileged groups have been deemed entitled to certain behaviorsWhy men often assume the role of “the knower”The concept of “himpathy,” and how labelling injustice is often key to dismantling itHow having a child and finding solidarity in community helped shape the writing of Kate's second bookThe difference between being entitled to speak up and being obligated to speak upPlus: in this week's You've Got This, Sara offers advice on how to tell when you are obligated to speak up against misogyny in the workplace, and how to assess the risk of speaking up in those circumstances. If you've ever kept quiet about injustice and then wondered if that was the right choice, this bit is for you. For more on this topic, head on over to https://www.activevoicehq.com/podcast.Links:Kate ManneEntitled BookAmerican Time Use SurveyKnow My Name BookThe Nap MinistryGirlTrekActive Voice

We've all heard about unethical tech products that track and surveil users. But there's another kind of harm happening in tech: abusers co-opting apps and other digital products to control and hurt their victims. Eva PenzeyMoog explains this growing problem—and shows us how to fight back. Content warning: This episode features discussions and specific anecdotes of tech-enabled abuse and interpersonal harm, including domestic violence. Eva PenzeyMoog is the founder of The Inclusive Safety Project and author of the new book Design for Safety. Through her work as a tech safety consultant and designer, Eva helps people in tech design products with the safety of our most vulnerable populations in mind.In terms of trying to talk about this stuff at work, or just with other people who work in tech, it was honestly kind of awkward because this isn't a topic that people like to think about. I talk a lot about domestic violence, there are other ways that this happens. There's issues of child abuse, and elder abuse, and things like unethical surveillance of employees and workers. But domestic violence is the one that I focus on. And just bringing that up, kind of out of nowhere, during a brainstorming meeting, it's kind of weird. And now, you know, my team is very used to it. And they're all really on board and are actually helping with some of this work, which is great, but at first, I think people just aren't used to saying, "Hmm, what about someone going through domestic violence?" It's kind of like, "Wait, that's dark. Do we really need to talk about that?" And yeah, actually, we really do. —Eva PenzeyMoog, author of Design for SafetyWe talk about:Issues of safety in tech products and how abusers misuse them to cause harmThe importance of destigmatizing conversations of user safety in tech and designWho is responsible for ensuring user safety?What qualifies as authentic consent?How to use techniques like a Black Mirror brainstorm and abuser archetypes to uncover and address harm potential in your product What it was like to publish a book in the middle of a pandemic, and how Eva strives for a sustainable approach to doing this work  Plus: in this week's You've Got This, Sara discusses how feelings of powerlessness can lead us to look for things we can control. This can often manifest in some toxic workplace behaviors: micromanaging, inability to delegate, obsessing over data. If you, like so many of us, feel these behaviors creeping in, look for places where you can assert control over things that you can actually take ownership of: set a regular hour for a walk each day, institute “no Zoom Thursdays,” schedule a shutoff time during weekdays. And if you find something that works great for you, send us a message. We'd love to hear about it! For all this and more, head on over to https://www.activevoicehq.com/podcast. Links:Eva PenzeyMoogDesign for Safety bookThe Inclusive Safety Project8th LightBBC Story on PowerlessnessActive Voice

Strong Feelings returns September 9th, but in the meantime, we wanted to share something with you: the Courageous Leadership Program, Sara's six-week group coaching program. It's all about stepping out of self-doubt and into your power as a leader, and it's designed specifically for people in design and tech who want to be bold, inclusive, confident leaders—but maybe need a little bit of help shaking off some of the societal messages they've absorbed that keep them playing small. If this sounds like you, head over to https://www.activevoicehq.com/group-coaching. Groups run Tuesdays starting September 21, or Wednesdays starting September 22, and enrollment is open now.

Most of us think of trauma as the  capital “T” kind: war, natural disasters, serious abuse. But day-to-day life is full of smaller traumas, and those need to be processed, too: bullying, work stress, the aftermath of the pandemic. Rachael Dietkus of Social Workers Who Design is on a mission to help us do just that.Rachael Dietkus is a writer, author, and social worker focused on the ways trauma shapes how and why we design. Through her organization Social Workers Who Design, Rachael and her team work to normalize and codify trauma-informed practices in design workplaces.We've demonstrated a certain kind of toughness and unplanned resilience that has really been built on this collective trauma of living through a pandemic. And so there can be some power and some comfort in that. I think that with all of the adaptability and need to be adaptable throughout the past several months, what it has really shown us is that we now need flexibility. So is there flexibility in scheduling? Is there flexibility in how and where we work?  I have sometimes used this phrase that I personally have a very high threshold, but a quick tipping point. I see that in a lot of people. You know, there's just this like, "Well, everyone else is doing it. It can't really be that bad." And the more that we just keep suppressing and deserting those cues that we're getting, the more it's just building, building, building. And at some point, the body is going to respond.—Rachael Dietkus, founder of Social Workers Who DesignWe talk about:The parallels between social work and designHow designers can look to social workers to be more trauma-informedWhat is trauma? And how can we become more aware of it?Healthy coping mechanisms for dealing with our own personal traumasHow to build a trauma-informed, human-centered workplace Why “bring your whole self to work” is dangerousRelational empathy versus transactional empathyPlus: in this week's You've Got This, Sara talks about the importance of specificity in our feelings and how that can help us get out of “comparison mode.” Are you really “just stressed,” or are you feeling something else: shame, betrayal, anger? Ask yourself, what is my anger telling me? What triggered it? What can I learn from this feeling? What unmet needs do I have here? For all this and more, check out https://www.activevoicehq.com/podcast.Links:Rachael DietkusSocial Workers Who DesignNational Center for PTSD's "Reactions Following Disaster and Mass Violence"Practicing Without a License: Design Research as PsychotherapyActive Voice

Most work environments prioritize profits over people. But there are other ways businesses can look—if we're willing to imagine them.Rachel and Travis Gertz are the founders of Louder Than Ten, a cooperative company on a mission to democratize the workplace through project management. Through their training and apprenticeship programs, they show digital organizations how to give power back to the people leading their projects. When some people talk about this, it seems like such a radical idea, but it's actually so practical. It's just a very common-sense way to make sure that you're more sustainable. Worker cooperatives last longer, people stay longer, they ride out through the rough times. Because the first thing that a capitalist framework company is going to do is they're going to cut their workers, right? And then they're going to retain all the earnings up at the top. But if you're a worker-owned cooperative, everybody has to support and pitch in. So I just think it's just a very practical system.—Rachel Gertz, CEO of Louder Than TenWe talk about:The history of cooperativesHow does a co-op work?Louder Than Ten's journey from “traditional” company to co-opSteps to turn a workplace from profits-focused to people-focusedHow gig workers and small businesses can leverage their power to build a more equitable workplaceResources and readings to learn morePlus: in this week's You've Got This, Sara offers tips for how to foster transparency in the workplace. How could you experiment with transparency, with authenticity, with honesty around something that maybe makes you a little uncomfortable? Who do you want to sit down with and explore other ways of working? For all this and more, check out https://www.activevoicehq.com/podcast. Links:Rachel and Travis GertzCoaxOwning Our FutureCompanies We KeepActive Voice

Even before the pandemic, Americans were experiencing a devastating loneliness epidemic. We talk to UX designer-turned-connection coach Kat Vellos about the longing for deep and meaningful friendships that so many of us experience, and how we can  build deeper, more substantial connections in our adult lives.   Kat Vellos is a connection coach, speaker, facilitator, and author on a mission to transform loneliness and “platonic longing” into authentic human connection. She is the author of two books: We Should Get Together: The Secret to Cultivating Better Friendships, and Connected From Afar: A Guide for Staying Close When You're Far Away. When we think about connection, we often turn our lens outward, and it's really important first to look inside and say, what is it that you really need right now? And what is missing? If you can wave a magic wand and have the kind of connection you want, what would that look like, and how would it be integrated into your life? And the way you answer that question helps you determine what to do and where to go when you then turn your lens outward and seek to cultivate that connection externally with other people.—Kat Vellos, author of We Should Get TogetherWe talk about:The loneliness epidemic and how COVID changed connectionThe idea of “platonic longing” and the importance of identifying and talking about lonelinessHaving passion for your job versus following your curiosityHow organizations can invite and facilitate connection within the workplaceWhat we can do to focus on reconnection in our personal livesPlus: in this week’s You’ve Got This, Sara offers tips for how to foster joy. Where have you told yourself you shouldn't feel joyful? What is that costing you? What would be different in your life if you were operating from a place of joy? What would shift, what would change? For all this and more, check out https://www.activevoicehq.com/podcast.Links:Kat VellosWe Should Get Together & Connected from AfarActive Voice

Last year, we saw the media regularly call Black Lives Matter protesters “rioters,” “violent,” or “thugs.” Yet on January 6, those who attacked the U.S. Capitol were often described as “passionate protestors” and “Trump supporters.” Linguistic anthropologist Suzanne Wertheim explains why these language disparities matter—and how biases like these show up in our workplaces, too. Dr. Suzanne Wertheim is an anti-bias consultant, researcher, and educator. She is also the founder of Worthwhile Research & Consulting, a firm that optimizes workplace culture through anti-bias and communication training. She is an expert in how cultural biases are expressed and perpetuated through language, and trains tech companies to spot and dismantle these biases in their workplaces.It's not your fault that you were born with a human brain. It's not your fault that your entire lifetime you've been fed garbage distorted data. And it's not your fault you were born into the body you were born into… But it is your responsibility, once you learn things, to make sure that you are looking for problems and then using your power to address them. —Dr. Suzanne Wertheim, founder, Worthwhile Research & Consulting We talk about:The role of a linguistic anthropologistThe dangers of softening language and other linguistic distortionsHow bias impacts workers in the tech industryWhich populations are most at risk for workplace bias and how to effectively fight against itWhat we can learn from research on trans workers who transitioned gender presentation in the workplacePlus: in this week’s You’ve Got This, Sara talks self-care, self-confidence, and how to better understand our inner critic. When does that inner critic rear its ugly head? What does it say? Who does it sound like? If you can learn about where that critic comes from, you can start to recognize when it’s not serving you. For all this and more, check out https://www.activevoicehq.com/podcast.Links:Suzanne WertheimWorthwhile Research & ConsultingSuzanne’s newsletterActive Voice

It’s no secret that the shift to remote work during COVID-19 has been stressful and isolating. But for many, the online workplace has also led to increased harassment, hostility, and harm.  McKensie Mack, Caroline Sinders, and Yang Hong are co-authors of a new report from Project Include all about harassment, harm, and hostility in the remote workplace during the COVID-19 pandemic. The study included data from almost 3,000 survey respondents as well several first-person accounts of how remote workplaces can exacerbate harm. The report aims to provide not only a comprehensive picture of the trauma faced by various groups of tech professionals but also tools for companies to correct harm and become more trauma-informed.There are a lot of ways in which, for example, trans women and non-binary people experience transphobia in the workplace, and it's not considered to be harassment. And I think it has a lot to do with the ways in which we define what harm is. And so in our work, especially, the fact that trans people are nearly twice as likely to have experienced gender-based harm than their peers, the fact that Black non-binary people, Black women are nearly three times as likely to experience race-based harm in the workplace as their peers, it tells us a lot about the ways in which gender impacts how people are experiencing harm in a workplace and how it amplifies that experience.—McKensie Mack, CEO of MMG and co-author, Project Include reportWe talk about:Which groups have been disproportionately affected by remote workWhat we mean by “harm” and “harassment”What harmful workplace practices look like, and how workplaces can become more trauma-informedStrategies for how to handle or intervene in a harmful workplacePlus: in this week’s You’ve Got This, Sara talks steps for using your privilege to speak up against a toxic work environment. Ask yourself: what are the harmful behaviors that you've been tolerating in your team or in your company? What's stopping you from speaking up about those? Is it that you are afraid of doing or saying the wrong thing? For all this and more, head over to https://www.activevoicehq.com/podcast.Links:Project Include Remote Work ReportMcKensie MackCaroline SindersYang HongPods and Pod MappingAgainst “Feel Free To Take Some Time if You Need It”adrienne maree brown on principled struggleActive Voice

Vivianne Castillo left counseling to become a UX researcher. What she found was an industry that talked a lot about empathy—but wasn’t very good at practicing it. Now she’s building a company dedicated to changing that.Vivianne Castillo is a UX researcher, humanity in tech advocate, and founder of HmntyCntrd, a masterclass for people in UX and tech that was just named one of Fast Company’s most innovative companies of 2021. Vivianne uses her background in counseling and trauma to educate on and advocate for the trauma-informed workplace, empathy in the face of capitalism, and justice for all. At HmntyCntrd, she helps people from companies like Apple, Slack, and Spotify become advocates for equity and change in the tech industry. I think a lot of UX and design professionals can have this tendency of, "Well, if I don't do it, who will? If I don't advocate for this user, who will? If I don't care about this person who will?" And you know, I have just learned that it's not all on me, and that I can't save everyone or everything. And that is such a freeing gift to realize, and just step into the reality that it's not all on you.—Vivianne Castillo, founder of HmntyCntrdWe talk about:What it really means to be humanity-centered, and why that’s often missing in UXHow and why Vivianne developed the HmntyCntrd programThe various forms of trauma caused by work and how a workplace can become more trauma--informedWhat it means to choose courage over comfortVivianne’s viral resignation letter from Salesforces, and how to identify when it’s time to leave a toxic work environmentPlus: in this week’s You’ve Got This, Sara talks steps for assessing when it might be time to leave a toxic work situation. Ask yourself: what are the costs of leaving? The costs of staying? What am I risking? If I stay, how can I set boundaries at work? For all this and more, head over to https://www.activevoicehq.com/podcast.Links:Vivianne CastilloHmntyCntrdVivianne’s Salesforce ResignationActive Voice

Margot Bloomstein wanted to find out how companies can beat cynicism and build trust in this moment. Years of research and a new book later, she has the formula: voice, volume, and—the scariest for all of us—vulnerability.  Margot Bloomstein is a brand and content strategy consultant, speaker, and the author of “Trustworthy: How the Smartest Brands Beat Cynicism and Bridge the Trust Gap, just out this spring. As the principal of Appropriate, Inc., she has helped organizations ranging from Harvard to Timberland engage their audiences with transparency, consistency, and clarity. Now, in Trustworthy, Margot opens up about how brands, and consumers, can use vulnerability and transparency as powerful tools to affect change.Being able to look at ourselves in the mirror and say, “What is uniquely me? What makes me distinct,” that's hard. And I think it goes back to that point of vulnerability. We have so much discomfort about confronting not our strengths and flaws, but our humanity—what makes us unique—that the idea then of sharing that with other people, that's scary. But it turns out that is the most rewarding thing for both us and for those other people.—Margot Bloomstein, author of TrustworthyWe talk about:How “voice, volume, and vulnerability” can combat cynicismWhat it means for a company to be vulnerable and why that’s a positive thingHow to handle criticismHow to start writing, speaking, and idea-sharingPlus: in this week’s You’ve Got This, Sara challenges us to confront perfectionism and discover our perfectionist origin story. Who taught you to be a perfectionist? What else were they teaching you? And what's all this perfectionism costing you? If you want to take that challenge on, head over to https://www.activevoicehq.com/podcast.Links:Margot BloomsteinTrustworthy BookWomen Talk DesignInnovation WomenActive Voice

What if you built a movement powerful enough to defund hate groups online, won one of the most prestigious awards in advertising, and then had your co-founder tell you to stop taking credit? If you’re Nandini Jammi, you’d get even louder.Nandini Jammi is a brand safety advocate and co-founder of Sleeping Giants, where her campaigns got major advertisers to stop funding sites like Breitbart. Now she’s co-founded a new company called Check My Ads, where she works with Fortune 500 companies to ensure that their ads aren’t showing up on extremist sites. She is also a writer, speaker, and activist full of practical advice for how to stand up for yourself in the workplace."I think that when you take a stand on something that is important, you will always have people who disagree with you. And that's fine. And you should let them disagree with you...if you're out there creating change and fighting for what you believe in, you're doing something right if people disagree with you. It can feel a kick in the gut sometimes when people that you respect don't agree with you. It's always important, I think, to understand their perspective, understand why you disagree with it, understand why they disagree with you, and use that to push your work forward."—Nandini Jammi, co-founder of Check My AdsWe talk about:How Nandini helped strip funding from some of America’s most powerful far-right news outletsWhat is a brand safety advocate?Why “being difficult” in the workplace is not necessarily a bad thingHow to find the courage to claim your achievements and stand up for yourself in an unsupportive work environment. And when it’s okay to leave.What makes a successful business partnershipPlus: A new segment called “You got this!” This season, Sara leaves each episode with a challenge to our listeners. This week’s is: “What is your boldest, most in-your-face thing that you honestly wish you could say out loud? What is one small risk that you could take this week to make that happen?” If you want to take that challenge on, head over to https://www.activevoicehq.com/podcast! Links:BrandedNandini’s websiteCheck My AdsActive Voice

Welcome back to Strong Feelings—a feminist look at the messy world of being human at work. Grab your coffee and join host Sara Wachter-Boettcher this spring as she goes deep on what real leadership in tech and design looks like. You'll hear from authors, activists, entrepreneurs, and troublemakers of all types who are changing the status quo: fighting online harassment, dismantling white supremacy in design, and so much more.

Strong Feelings is still on hiatus, but we’ve got a show we think you’ll love: Thread The Needle, a new podcast all about the place where feminist ideals and the realities of life meet.In this episode, called “Why Won’t He Do the Dishes,” journalist Donna Cleveland looks at the sorry state of gender equality on the home front. She also uncovers a surprising research finding—splitting chores fairly does not create happier couples.If you like what you hear, subscribe to Thread the Needle wherever you listen to podcasts, or head to theneedle.co.

Welcome back, friends! Today’s episode isn’t the glorious season opener we thought we’d have. And that’s actually ok.Tuning into your gut can tell you a lot, even when the answer is hard to hear. Listen in for all the details on Katel’s sabbatical, Sara’s new company, and what happens next. Links: Collective Strength, our monthly event series in Philly Active Voice, Sara’s new leadership development and coaching company A Book Apart, Katel’s publishing house Our newsletter, coming out the first Friday of the month

What would you do if a Google doc you made went viral, and suddenly groups across the country were implementing your ideas to plan political action in their communities? If you’re Leah Greenberg, you’d found Indivisible—the national nonprofit she started with her husband Ezra Levin after the 2016 election.Now Leah and Ezra have co-authored a new book about what they learned creating Indivisible and supporting thousands of local Indivisible groups around the country, and how all of us can join the fight for more inclusive democracy. It’s called We are Indivisible, A Blueprint for Democracy After Trump, and it’s just in time to kick you into gear for the 2020 election. We started off resisting Trump, but we know that Trump's not the problem. We know that Trump is a symptom, and that if we had a healthy democratic society that valued the lives and equality of all of its people, Donald Trump would never have gotten remotely close to the White House. And so fundamentally we felt like what was crucial for us, and what was crucial for the movement, was that we were moving from resisting Trump to resisting Trumpism, and tackling the kind of fundamental flaws at the heart of democracy that were making our country vulnerable to Trumpism.—Leah Greenberg, co-founder and co-executive director of Indivisible We talk about: What made Leah and Ezra create the Indivisible guide—even though peers warned them it could ruin their careersHow to put pressure on elected officials, and why working with a community group makes political engagement more successful and more sustainable Why it’s crucial to get out of campaign mode and avoid burning staff and volunteers outWhat it’s like to run an organization and write a book with your partner Plus: It’s our last show of the year! Sara and Katel talk about what they’ll be bringing with them into 2020, what they’ll be leaving behind, and what all of you should listen to while Strong Feelings is off the air this winter. Links:Indivisible We Are Indivisible book Leah on TwitterThe Opt-In podcast

What if moms were granted the kind of parental leave they really needed to heal from childbirth, care for baby, and return to work? Lauren Smith Brody thinks it would completely change the lives of new parents—and everyone around them.Most parents have to go back to work months before they’re emotionally and physically ready, missing out on an important developmental phase. When Lauren had her first child, she realized that phase needed a name, and a movement—so she launched The Fifth Trimester to help parents and businesses transform workplace culture together.It shouldn’t be on women necessarily, and it shouldn’t be on moms necessarily, to have to make these big cultural corrections just because they’re the ones who need it in this moment. It's really on all of us.—Lauren Smith Brody, author and founder of The Fifth TrimesterWe talk about: Why openly talking about being a parent at work is so critical. “Coming back to work as a new mother was my first day on the job all over again in many, many ways...I didn't know how to do my job and be a mom at the same time. I felt like a newbie and I just decided to expose that all over the place as much as I could and make it ok.”How asking for what you need as a new parent can actually help everyone in your workplace. “Try to remember that this is not something that you are asking for for you, your family, in this moment. This is a plan for how you will get your job done. But also, any flexibility that you're able to win is really a win for everybody around you.”Why reckoning with our racist and capitalist past is the only way we can fundamentally change the system. “Racism so clearly impacts the access to support and even just obviously simple good health and the right to good health that American workers have. ...So very often you'll see that a company has gotten headlines for providing, you know, so-and-so is going to now have, you know, 12 paid weeks of family leave. Great. Who actually has access to that?” Plus: committing to becoming better advocates for people who have kids and digging a little deeper into the very real impact slavery’s history still has on our country today.LinksThe Fifth TrimesterLauren on InstagramThe 1619 Project, podcast episode 2: The Economy That Slavery BuiltThe 1619 Project, article: “In order to understand the brutality of American capitalism, you have to start on the plantation.”

You know all the work it takes to stay on top of laundry, not let the insurance policy lapse, and keep track of school meetings and doctor’s appointments? All that often-invisible labor was exhausting Eve Rodsky. So she did something about it—for her family, and for all of us.That something is a brand-new book: Fair Play: A Game-Changing Solution for When You Have Too Much To Do and More Life to Live. It’s also a game you can play with your partner, a way for moms to stop being the “she-fault” parent, and—if Eve has her way—a tool for changing the dynamic of practically any relationship. We were doing everything so fairly. He helped me secure my dream job in philanthropy. I marked up his operating agreements, because I'm a lawyer by trade, as he grew a new business. We took turns doing the dishes. We took turns making each other dinner. Well, cut to two kids later. And I find myself literally sobbing on the side of the road over a text my husband sent me, and that text said, "I'm surprised you didn't get blueberries.”—Eve Rodksy, author, Fair Play: A Game-Changing Solution for When You Have Too Much To Do and More Life to LiveWe talk about: How Eve created the “Shit I Do” list—a massive, viral spreadsheet that made all her invisible labor extremely visible. “How can we value what we don't see?”How that spreadsheet evolved into the Fair Play method (and what her husband thought when she showed it to him).What it was like to talk with and test Fair Play with 500 couples from across the country.Why the smallest details often cause the biggest fights—like the COO of a publicly traded company locked out of his house over a glue stick. Why a 50/50 split often isn’t the answer—but honest conversation is. “this is not about scorekeeping. It's about ownership.” Plus: fish sticks and frozen veggies for dinner, the pros and cons of being a latchkey kid, and why ownership is such a crucial concept. Photo credit: © Avia Rosen 2019

What if lacing up your sneakers weren’t just an exercise habit, but a radical political act? That’s the premise of GirlTrek—the movement to help Black women and girls reclaim their health and their communities through a daily habit of walking.We sit down with Morgan Dixon and Vanessa Garrison, the co-founders of GirlTrek—the largest public health nonprofit for Black women and girls—to talk about reclaiming space for rest and health, what it means to take daily walks in the steps of a Civil Rights legacy, and why Black women making s’mores in the mountains of Colorado is actually a tiny act of rebellion. The most radical thing any woman can do, and particularly a black woman, is to slow her ass down. Slow down, stop running for other people's praise. Stop running for other people's approval. Slow down.—Morgan Dixon, cofounder, GirlTrekOn the agenda: Why GirlTrek’s annual Stress Protest is a life-changing experience. “We are having a genuine spiritual experience on the top of a mountain that is fueled by the truth-telling of Black women who come there and vocalize that they are hurting, and then commit to claim space for themselves and their family.”How GirlTrek is creating a workplace that’s not built on hustle. “We have an offseason every year. That's an annual sabbatical, essentially, that our entire team takes.”Why Black women particularly need self-care. “Two-thirds of black women engage in little to no leisure time physical activity...because we don't have any leisure time. That's why we don't exercise on our leisure time, because we don't have any leisure time.” How Harriet Tubman’s legacy inspires GirlTrek today. “She literally walked herself to freedom and saved her own life… And then she went back over and over again to get friends and family, which is what GirlTrek does.” Plus: We’re in love with the idea of a company offseason. Fellesferie, 2020 y’all. LinksGirlTrek.orgInstagramTwitterFacebook

Indigenous women and girls face some of the highest rates of violence in the United States—and often fall through the cracks of the federal and tribal justice systems. We talk to tribal law and victims’ rights expert Sarah Deer about her work to change that—while pushing back against mass incarceration.Sarah Deer is a lawyer, professor, Muscogee (Creek) tribe member, MacArthur fellow, and an expert in tribal law and victim’s rights. She’s best known for her work on the reauthorization of the Violence Against Women act in 2013, but she’s dedicated her entire career to ending violence against Native women. We talked to her just after she was inducted in the National Women’s Hall of Fame this fall—and we had so much we wanted to know.Heads up: As you might guess, this episode talks extensively about sexual violence and child sexual abuse. Take care of yourselves when you listen.If we can center the voices of Native women, and frankly women of color generally—center them rather than marginalize us—we can start to craft solutions that are going to help everyone. I mean, I think if we can solve rape in Indian Country, we can solve rape anywhere.—Sarah Deer, tribal law and victim’s rights expert and 2019 National Women’s Hall of Fame inductee | Photo by Natalie SinisgalliWe talk about:What it’s like to operate from inside a system that was not designed to serve youHow Sarah’s work played a direct role in the 2010 Tribal Law and Order ActWhy the 2019 VAWA reauthorization is still stalled in CongressHow Sarah makes sense of the tension between fighting mass incarceration and working with the legal systemPlus: How to decide which tradeoffs to make, what we can do to work within unjust systems without becoming part of those systems, and why there’s nothing empowering about having more women running fracking companies or payday lending schemes.

How do you make space for yourself in the world when you’re shy and a little bit weird? If you’re cartoonist Liana Finck, you channel the stuff stuck in your brain into your art—and find out a lot of people actually feel like you, too.Liana is a regular contributor to the New Yorker and a wildly popular cartoonist on Instagram. Her newest book, Excuse Me: Cartoons, Complaints, and Notes to Self, is a collection of drawings about dating, love, sexism, anxiety, and all the absurdities of city life. We talk with her about getting comfortable with a public persona, processing feelings through drawing, and...crying at job interviews. She’s a delight, and you are gonna love this episode.There’s a real good feeling in sharing something with strangers... I’m saying, “this is no longer my private shame, this is something we all share.”—Liana Finck, cartoonist and author of Excuse Me: Cartoons, Complaints, and Notes to Self | Photo of Liana by: Jorge ColomboOn the agenda:Drawing as a form of understanding yourself. “I’m trying to explain something to myself that I didn’t have words or pictures for before.”Being a shy person. “I think I was shy because I knew I was strange in a way that I couldn’t quite define and I was very afraid of being found out. And the sadness I think arose from the shyness... I was afraid of showing myself and I felt trapped and helpless and out of control. And I think that has a lot to do with something that society didn’t find me exactly what they ordered.”Putting yourself out there. “If I only did what was comfortable to me, I wouldn’t be able to make a life at all. I’m so used to stretching myself that I’m always doing it.”Breaking into the New Yorker. “I would come into the New Yorker once a year for many, many years… I would be the only newbie, and also the only woman, and also the only young person. And also of the young people—if there were any young people—the only one who didn’t go to Harvard.”Plus: Handling professional rejection, rejecting others, and what to do when you wake up and realize…you’re a gatekeeper in your field.

The craft beer scene has plenty of bros waxing on about hops, but more and more women are making beer, too. And if they’re Love City Brewing’s Melissa Walter, they’re making change while they’re at it.Melissa is the co-founder of Philly’s own Love City Brewing, a vocal supporter of getting more women into the beer industry, and an advocate for safer, more inclusive bars everywhere. She joins us to talk about how she went from therapist to brewery owner, why she prioritized covering employee benefits and creating a philanthropic program from day one, and what it looks like to build a bar where everyone feels welcome. Yes, of course, we need to make money, we need to keep the doors open, we need to keep the lights on. But beyond that, I’m like, why do you need five million dollars this year? I’m not saying that making money is terrible, but I’m saying you can build these things in, grow a little more slowly, be a little more conscious... You live in this place, you should take care of it.—Melissa Walter, co-founder of Love City BrewingWe talk about: How she’s creating community for women in beer. “There are women in the industry, we just have to find them and bring them together.” Why diversity always matters. “I think any industry should look like the community in which it is involved.” What it looks like to make accessibility a foundational requirement. “Our front entrance is a ramp; everybody comes in the same way: you go up the ramp, done. So, people who use a chair or don’t use a chair, same entrance, same accessibility as everybody else. All of our bathrooms are gender-neutral, so anybody can use any bathroom whatsoever.” Why all Love City staff go through sexual harassment intervention training. “The things that I’ve read from other places are that if they do take advantage of this training it’s like they’re admitting something is wrong. And I’m like, ‘ah…no? You’re doing the thing to make sure things don’t go wrong!’” Why Love City decided to give back from day one. “You live in this place, you should take care of it.” Links Lovecitybrewing.comLove City on Twitter and InstagramMelissa on Instagram Pink Boots SocietySafe Bars Philly

It’s time for riots, not diets. This week we talk about bodies, health, food, and fatness with Kimberly Dark, author of the new book, Fat, Pretty, and Soon to be Old.Kimberly is a writer, a storyteller, a performance artist, a professor, a yoga teacher, a queer mother, and so much more—and she delves into all of it in this interview. From being shamed as a fat child to starving her way through her teens to finally leaving diets behind forever, we loved hearing how Kimberly learned to love and nurture her body—and how we can all change the way we think and talk about fatness, beauty, and aging. You can’t hate a person’s body and claim to want to help them.—Kimberly Dark, author, Fat, Pretty, and Soon to be Old We talk about: How our healthcare system fails fat people. “I don’t use the word ‘obesity’ because it’s a medicalized term to describe a fat body, which, fat bodies are not inherently diseased.” Why eating well and exercising shouldn’t be prerequisites to respect. “There should be no requirement for anyone to have to uphold health practices in order to be considered a worthy human being.” Coming out as fat: “If you want to know me, if you want to know me in my full humanity as a human being, then I should be able to talk about my experiences in the world.” How to sit next to a fat person on a plane: “We’re going to occupy this space together; let’s acknowledge it, and let’s treat each other nicely.” The double-bind of beauty expectations. “Women are supposed to be on a quest for prettiness and we’re not ever supposed to acknowledge it.”Plus:Unpacking our own relationship to weight, food, and healthHow anti-fatness affects people at work Getting dressed up for the abortion ball Links:Fat, Pretty, and Soon to be Old: A Makeover for Self and Society Kimberly on Twitter and InstagramKimberly’s website

How do we know what happens in a war zone? Most info comes from journalists—white, Western, male journalists. Zahra Hankir thinks it’s time we heard from a very different group: Arab women reporting from their communities.Zahra is the curator and editor of a new book: Our Women On the Ground: Essays by Arab Women Reporting from the Arab World —a collection of powerful stories about living and working in conflict zones, all written by women.She first realized how important this work was in 2011, when she was a journalist working at Bloomberg in Dubai, holed up in a highrise trying to report from afar on the Arab Spring. Now she’s collected the work of 19 different journalists—from a Syrian American straddling multiple cultures during tremendous strife to a Yemeni woman explaining the perils of attempting to travel her country without a male relative as chaperone.The stakes are so high with so much of the coverage that these women do because they’re writing about their homelands and they’re writing about their neighborhoods and their villages… There is a level of intimacy there and there is a level of personal connection to the story that informs the way they approach the story, and they go through the struggle of having to remain impartial at the same time, even though it feels impossible.—Zahra Hankir, editor and curator of Our Women on the GroundWe talk about:Why it matters who we hear from, and which stories are centered in conflict reportingWhat it means to be impartial in journalism—and what to do when that’s impossibleThe challenges of being a reporter and a woman in the Arab worldWhy so many women journalists feel guilty pausing from their reporting to tell their own storiesHow hearing women’s stories changes our conception of the truthPlus: Passing the Bechdel test, black girls and horror films, the problem of avoiding politics talk, and, on a lighter note...it’s finally clog season, baby!Links:The book: Our Women On the GroundZahra’s websiteZahra on Instagram and Twitter

Buckle up, friends. Today’s episode is a wild ride. We sat down with famed feminist lawyer Gloria Allred to talk about her four-decade career fighting discrimination and sexual violence, and her new induction into the National Women’s Hall of Fame...during the same week some messy details emerged about her role in the Harvey Weinstein saga.Whew. When we sat down with Gloria earlier this month, we knew she was a powerhouse lawyer—from representing more than 30 women in the Bill Cosby case to fighting California’s gay marriage ban in the state supreme court in 2004 to advocating for abortion rights and against gender discrimination since the 1970s, she’s seen and done a lot.But just before we got her on the phone, a new book came out that complicates things: She Said — written by two New York Times reporters, Jodi Kantor and Megan Twohey, who broke open the Harvey Weinstein story in 2017. In it, they detail how Gloria’s daughter Lisa Bloom, also a feminist attorney, went to work for Weinstein, promising to plant stories painting accusers like Rose McGowan as unstable in the press. The memos were pretty damning. And then, Kantor and Twohey took aim at Gloria herself—because back in the early aughts, her firm represented a client who signed a secret settlement with Weinstein—and that client now feels burned.So in this episode, we share an inspiring, powerful interview with Gloria—and remind ourselves that all our faves are problematic.Fighting injustice is very good for the health… Take that rage and anger, which is a source of energy for you, and move it outward into constructive action to win change.—Gloria Allred, 2019 inductee into the National Women’s Hall of FameWe talk about:The power and limitations of lawsuits as a form of justicePrison abolition versus locking up rapists, and why carceral feminism won’t save usHow Gloria went from a childhood in Southwest Philly to public school teacher to labor organizer to celebrity attorneyWhy fighting injustice is good for the healthLinks:Gloria’s website and legal firmSeeing Allred, the Netflix documentary on Gloria’s lifeShe Said: Breaking the Sexual Harassment Story that Helped Ignite a MovementThe New York Times Daily podcast episode about Lisa Bloom and episode about Gloria AllredGloria’s op ed in the LA Times, defending private settlements

We’ve all heard advice to hustle, work harder, and push push push. And...most of us are exhausted as a result. So this week we’re talking to someone making the opposite choice: Stephanie Hurlburt, an entrepreneur who built a successful business, no nights and weekends required.Stephanie is the cofounder of Binomial, a company that makes image compression software. But she’s not a startup founder working 100 hours a week and trying to scale as fast as possible. Instead, she’s optimized her business for her mental and physical health—while still sharing her knowledge with industry newbies, closing big deals with companies like Google and Netflix, and healing from the trauma of domestic violence. The purpose of my job is to give me time in my life. And money can help give me time in some ways—for instance, if I amassed enough money to not need to work at all. But money can also not give me time. For instance, entering into a big contract where I was constantly on the clock. So, having that as a very clear priority really helps guide a lot of decisions.—Stephanie Hurlburt, cofounder, Binomial We talk about: Why business is always personal—and it’s ok to be yourself. “When I was working in the gaming industry, there was very much a boys club there... It kind of made me realize that I’m never going to get a real seat at that table. And when I’m open about myself, I’m definitely not getting a seat at that table. And maybe that’s okay! Maybe I find tables that actually accept me.” How to reframe networking as human by thinking about it as a natural give and take, not a transaction. “I feel like to a lot of people, they dread it because they see it as very transactional. And I don’t really see it that way.” Why letting an email sit for a day or two is actually an important part of setting boundaries. “The first conversation you have with someone, you’re setting some very key boundaries about what’s okay and what’s not okay, even if you’re not explicit about it.” How mental healthcare can help you break free of burnout cycles. “The number one thing that I wish I did when I was overworked was actually to see a therapist. Because I feel like I have grown so much through therapy and I have learned how to manage my time through therapy. If I had sought a therapist earlier, I could have prevented a lot of pain.” Plus, what Sara and Katel did on their summer vacation: unplug their laptops, drape themselves in linen, and go cliff diving with tween boys. No, really. Links: Stephanie’s websiteStephanie on Twitter BinomialBurnout: The Secret to Unlocking the Stress Cycle

Did your school offer sex ed? If you grew up in the U.S., there’s a good chance it didn’t—or that the information you received was incomplete, unhelpful, or even… inaccurate. Tanya Turner is changing that—by bringing “Sexy Sex Ed” workshops to teens in Kentucky. Tanya started Sexy Sex Ed when she realized how many teens weren’t getting honest, inclusive, and consent-base sex ed anywhere else. Now she’s bringing her interactive workshops to all kinds of groups, including adults. When she’s not teaching consent-focused sex ed, you can find Tanya spouting “smut and socialism” on the Trillbilly Workers Party Podcast, advocating for Appalachian arts and media at Appalshop, or...maybe even handing out condoms in a parking lot. Sex ed is not doing its job if it’s not encouraging and motivating people to share knowledge. So, my goal every time I lead a Sexy Sex Ed is that the information ripples out from there and people are sharing what they’re learning. —Tanya Turner, creator of Sexy Sex Ed We talk about: Why so much of sex ed should really be “Communication 101.” “A lot of the workshop is how to talk to other people—how to talk to yourself, really—how to listen to your body, and how to trust your instincts.” When and how we should really start educating kids about sex. “It’s never too early to start talking with kids about what love feels like, and consent, and language for their body parts.” The value of learning about your own body. “You can’t trust a doctor to know everything going on with you. A doctor is only as powerful, and strong, and good for you as you are able to communicate with them. And you have to be able to listen to your body.” ...And learning about everyone else’s, too. “I feel like all people have a responsibility to understand the anatomy of all other people so that we can help each other and support each other.” Why bringing sex ed to Appalachia matters so much. “Rural sex education has actually decreased by 20% in the past ten years, so we’re getting less than we used to and we weren’t getting much to begin with.” Plus: Sara and Katel go deep on the sad state of sex ed across the United States, wave a middle finger at abstinence-only education, and get to know the Dildo Duchess. Follow Tanya: Tanya on Twitter The Trillbilly Workers Party podcast on Twitter Email Sexy Sex Ed

Can business be a site for radical creativity and social change? Join us as we go back to school with feminist business consultant Jennifer Armbrust. Jennifer is the founder and director of Sister, a consulting firm that advises companies on bringing feminist principles into business practices. She’s also the creator of Feminist Business School, an online course, and the author of Proposals for the Feminine Economy. We talk to her about what it means to bring feminism into business, what it might look like to build more equitable economic systems, and why she thinks all entrepreneurs should read some Audre Lorde. Listen to your body’s messages as guidance, instead of seeing your body as an inconvenience to work—which is what capitalism says. Capitalism says, “you could work so much more if you didn’t get sick or pregnant or have to eat or go to sleep!”... So, that’s kind of the first place I work. How do we bring your body back into your business and let your body have some votes on what happens throughout the day? —Jennifer Armbrust, founder of Sister and creator of Feminist Business School We chat about: Why Jennifer let go of the pursuit for “ideological purity,” and embraced bringing her feminist backpack into the weeds of capitalism instead How our culture of overwork and constant pressure to produce fails us Why listening to your body, not just your to-do list, is a feminist act Why fear is what keeps people—and companies—stuck The importance of “tinkering”—using small shifts to create change The limitations of “conscious capitalism” in creating equitable futures Links: Sister Feminist Business School Proposals for the Feminine Economy Sister on Instagram Plus: Sara and Katel talk about their own successes (and...not-so-successes) bringing their feminist practices into their work Why having a woman in charge doesn’t make a business feminist The problem with individualistic “go get yours” women’s empowerment messages White feminism in history: how Southern white women’s slaveholding helped secure their economic future Photo credit: Aubree Bernier-Clarke

Abortion rights are under attack across the country—from “heartbeat bills” aimed at destroying Roe v. Wade to “crisis pregnancy centers” that lie to pregnant people. But Seneca Joyner knows we can fight back—by organizing and paying for abortions. Seneca is the manager of community organizing at Women’s Medical Fund, the oldest and largest abortion fund in the country. She’s also a Muslim, an anarchist, a parent, a historian, and...a joy to talk with. So listen up for a deep dive into abortion rights and access, what’s happening legally right now, and why Seneca is 1,000% sure that we will win. Our average pledge at Women’s Medical Fund is $128. And we often talk with people about that because what that means is that before folks call us...they have pooled their resources to bring money to the table, but they’re short, on average—for this extremely safe, regular medical procedure—less than $130. —Seneca Joyner, manager of community organizing, Women’s Medical Fund We talk about: Why organizing for abortion rights is just as crucial to raising money for abortion care. “If we are not organizing ourselves and our communities to ensure abortion access...abortion will be so heavily criminalized that it won’t matter that we have half a million dollars to give away. It will be impossible for folks to access care for any reason.” How black women’s real lives aren’t represented by the dominant narrative. “I grew up in the eighties when the dominant discourse was that... black women were literally ruining the black community. And then I looked around and I saw myself, but I saw my mother and her friends. They were so joyful.” Why crisis pregnancy centers are really anti-abortion centers—and their goals are to waste your time. “When people decide to have an abortion, they are resolute about it... And a way that our abortion opponents have hit on that has been extremely successful is that crisis pregnancy centers juuuust make it—they’ll add another week or two weeks in the ways that they obstruct people from actually finding a clinic.” How Muslim faith and abortion advocacy fit together. “I was more able to live not only my life as an abortion enthusiast, but also as a person who had an abortion that was a parent that loved people and wanted to see good in the world—it was actually coming over to Islam and doing this work as a Muslim woman that enabled me to do every part of it.” All the links Women’s Medical Fund National Network of Abortion Funds Guttmacher Institute (check out their 2017 abortion stats, fact sheet on abortion worldwide, and stats on who gets abortions ) What is the Hyde Amendment? The fallout from Planned Parenthood leaving Title X Tennessee’s attempt to turn its heartbeat bill into an all-out abortion ban A Vox explainer on heartbeat bills What Americans actually think about abortion

Are rest and joy part of your daily regimen? Maybe they should be. Author and activist adrienne maree brown joins us to talk about her new book, Pleasure Activism. adrienne is a black feminist writer and social justice advocate based in Detroit, and Pleasure Activism will change the way you think about yourself, your body, and your relationship to feeling good. She’s also the author of Emergent Strategy, the cohost of How to Survive the End of the World, a doula, a facilitator, and so much more. This is an episode we’re gonna be sitting with for a while. Because the crises are so big, there’s a real desire to constantly be responding to these crises —there’s never a moment when we can’t justifiably be working because there’s so much to work on... But what ends up happening is we suffer because we don’t have joy, and connection to each other, and connection to our bodies, and connection to family, and pleasure in our lives. And that suffering builds up into exhaustion. That exhaustion leads to a depletion of hope, a depletion of vision, a depletion of innovation under pressure. —adrienne maree brown, author of Pleasure Activism We talk about: Acknowledging our bodies, even when things are dire. “No matter what else is happening, we still have this body that is full of nerves that can feel pleasure.” The power of reclaiming your body and relearning how to feel. “Somatics is a way that you can recreate, regenerate belonging through learning how to be authentic and to feel your feelings in real time, and communicate them in real time, ask for what you actually want and mean.” Raising sexually liberated kids, and talking frankly about sexual trauma: “If we are comfortable bringing children into a world in which they could be harmed, we need to get much more comfortable discussing that harm and figuring out ways to intervene on it.” Why we are what we practice—and that means practicing intervention, not politeness, in the face of racism. “If you keep rubbing at the same spot in your clothing, eventually you’re going to change that spot, you’re going to make it a worn-down area. I think we do the same thing ourselves. We wear down parts of ourselves that we actually need to keep sharp and strong. Like analysis, like the part of ourselves that can intervene on racism. We wear those things down by being polite over and over and over again.” More from adrienne: Website | Twitter | Insta Plus: Giving the finger to “posi vibes only” Reclaiming rest for black bodies with the Nap Ministry Rest is more than just another productivity hack The case for not reading your email in the morning What are you doing for pleasure? Tell us!

It’s episode 69, y’all—and that means we’re getting steamy. Author Jasmine Guillory joins us for a look at the world of romance novels: why they’re important, what people get wrong about them, and what it’s really like to write them for a living. Jasmine is the New York Times bestselling author of The Wedding Date, The Proposal, and a new book, The Wedding Party, which just came out in July. Her hugely popular romance novels have earned fans from Reese Withersppoon to Roxane Gay to, well, us! We loved hearing Jasmine talk about why she centers black women in her books, how she writes about bodies in inclusive ways, and why romance novels aren’t guilty pleasures—but rather a sweet (and sexy!) comfort in tough times. People of color have always embraced stories that weren’t about us, so we have known that everybody else out there can do it… These are stories that everybody wants to see. —Jasmine Guillory, author of The Wedding Party We chat about: Jasmine’s latest book, The Wedding Party. It’s about Maddie and Theo, who share a best friend and a mutual hatred—till they end up in the same wedding party, and keep “accidentally sleeping together.” Why so many of us (ahem, Sara) are biased against romance novels. “There’s so much misogyny out there in the world, both external and internalized, that people kind of think that books that treat women as whole people...there must be something wrong with them.” How pizza and tacos are central to a steamy plot. “I want more women especially to stop thinking of foods as ‘bad’ or ‘good’—to stop thinking of themselves as ‘bad’ or ‘good’ based on what they eat that day.” Why Jasmine’s sex scenes get super-sexy—without focusing on characters’ body parts. “I wanted them to feel like no matter what they looked like in comparison to the character, there are certain things about your body that will still attract people.” Writing consent into the storyline. “If you’re writing a story where a heterosexual relationship is at the center of it, the power dynamics between the two people are important and you have to analyze that.” Links: JasmineGuillory.com Jasmine on Twitter and Instagram The Wedding Party How to Write Consent in Romance Novels by Hannah Giorgis for The Atlantic Plus: Self-optimization culture is a tool of hyper-capitalist patriarchy, pass it on Getting your nails done and watching goofy TV is fine, ty This is now a Jia Tolentino stan podcast. Don’t miss Athleisure, Barre, and Kale: The Tyranny of the Ideal Woman and Trick Mirror Finding optimism for the fight against gun violence with last weekend’s Presidential Gun Sense Forum and the upcoming Recess Rallies with Moms Demand Action

Have you heard the groundswell women making waves in music lately? Talia Schlanger has. The public radio powerhouse joins us to talk about the art of interviewing, the importance of uncomfortable conversations, and why “women in music” isn’t a theme—it’s just what normal looks like...on her airwaves, at least. Talia is the host of World Cafe, the iconic radio show produced by WXPN in Philadelphia and distributed nationally on NPR. Before joining the show in 2016, she was a producer and host at the CBC. In this live episode from the Philadelphia Podcast Festival, we talk about scheming and scamming her way into radio, what it was like to take over World Cafe from creator David Dye, and why she’s fighting every day for way more diversity in music. We’re not doing this as some summer camp project to try and make the world better for everyone. We’re trying to remove the biases that we have, so that we can hear the best stuff that’s out there—so that we’re not missing out because we have outdated ideas or because our ears are closed or because maybe we don’t have a frame of reference for something because all the music that we listened to maybe at a different time in the music industry was male. —Talia Schlanger, host, World Cafe Links World Cafe on NPR Talia’s bio Talia on Twitter and Instagram The interview with St. Vincent that got Talia noticed at World Cafe The (awful) Jian Ghomeshi backstory (content warning: sexual violence allegations in here) Two very different interviews with Lizzo: Fresh Air and World Cafe Plus: Everyone in Canada knows Drake Sara gets her bra signed by Australian teens Katel totally loves ska, pass it on We’re all gonna BFF Alanis someday Butt masks: a bridge too far Thanks to The Philadelphia Podcast Festival for having us, Indy Hall for hosting, and all our friends and fans who made it out!

What’s it like to spend a decade working on your first novel, become a bestselling author, and still have the first thing people say about you be that you’re “adorable”? We talk with Korean American writer R.O. Kwon to find out. R.O. is best known for her 2018 novel, The Incendiaries. It’s a story about young love, religious fundamentalism, violent extremism, and coming to terms with the loss of faith. It was named one of the best books of the year by NPR, The Atlantic, Bustle, Buzzfeed, the BBC, and a bunch other outlets—and it’s finally out in paperback this week. It was a dream to talk with R.O. about finding massive success after working on her book for 10 years, loving literature she couldn’t see herself in, and why we all need to stop calling Asian women “cute.” I was desperately in love with an art form—literature—in which I physically could not and did not exist… the books I had around the house that I loved and still love were Henry James and Jane Austin and Edith Wharton. All these books by very dead people in a world in which—if I were ever to appear in, say, Edith Wharton’s world—I couldn’t have even gone into the rooms where things are happening. Nobody would have talked to me. At best, I might have been a circus attraction. —R.O. Kwon, author of The Incendiaries We chat about: Why reworking the first chapter over and over isn’t the best way to finish a novel. “I had twenty pages of the most elaborately reworked prose I had ever read. I threw it all away and then I started again.” Why including sexual violence in the book came so naturally. “It would have felt unrealistic to me I think in retrospect to have a more sanitized version of a college world. That wasn’t the college world that I knew, at least.” What it’s like to lose your faith at 17. “My entire life is divided into before and after. And that aftermath has in a lot of ways felt like an aftermath where a predominant note has been grief.” How she handles online harassment. “Every woman writer I know who is online in any way is getting harassed—that seems to be a part of our online lives, which is so awful. So, there has been harassment, especially anytime I write a nonfiction piece that has anything to do with gender or race or, god forbid, both.” Links: R.O. Kwon’s book tour details R.O. on Twitter and Instagram The Incendiaries On Being a Woman in America While Trying to Avoid Being Assaulted in The Paris Review 48 Books By Women and Nonbinary Authors of Color to Read in 2019 in Electric Literature Plus: Embracing a shitty first drafts mentality—in writing and pretty much everything else. How perfectionism makes us feel safe and in control, but actually shuts down progress. Fuck yeah to saying no! Did you know you can rest even when you're not sick? Why capitalism hates that you have a body.

What does community mean? How do you build one? And why do they matter—particularly for people of color? We chatted with Naj Austin this week to find out. She’s the founder Ethels Club, a new private membership club and workspace created by and for people of color. And while Ethels is definitely a spot where you can perch with your laptop for a few hours, it’s way more than coworking: we’re talking exhibits from artists of color, mental health programming designed to destigmatize therapy and connect members to therapists of color, and so much more. The first Ethels Club is set to open in Brooklyn in October—and that launch can’t come soon enough for the thousands of people who’ve flocked to her waiting list (including early investor Roxane Gay). So we asked Naj how she’s making it happen, what it means to build a business and a community at the same time, and why she’s committed to offering more than just a desk and some wifi to her members. People are looking for spaces where they can feel seen, celebrated, and find like-minded people in real life. —Naj Austin, founder of Ethels Club We chat about: How Ethels Club went from a spark of an idea to an actual business with Naj as CEO Why Naj got fed up at typical investor meetings, and decided to raise funds from other people of color instead When and how she took the leap from employee with steady pay and predictability to running Ethels Club Why she thinks so many people are interested in a space like Ethels, which goes beyond a basic coworking spot Waiting for Beyoncé to call (

When Mary Pipher first published Reviving Ophelia in 1994, she changed the way America thinks about teenage girls and their needs. Now she’s back with a new 25th anniversary edition of her landmark book—this time, published with her own daughter, Sara Pipher Gilliam. From student debt to school shootings to climate change to digital culture, a lot has changed for teen girls in the past 25 years. But many things remain the same: body image issues, anxiety, sexual harassment and abuse. We sat down with Pipher (who you may remember from the spring, when she came on to discuss [women, friendship, and aging](link to ep)) and Gilliam to talk about what teen girls experience today, what it was like to write a book together, and why it matters so much for all of us that we change our “girl-poisoning culture.” There’s a strange way in which girls today are never together and never alone. And so the primary building blocks of self—which is to be interacting face-to-face with other people and to be alone reflecting and developing one’s own inner strength—those aren’t occurring right now. Mary Pipher, co-author of Reviving Ophelia: Saving the Selves of Adolescent Girls, 25th Anniversary Edition We chat about: How the culture we remember as teen girls in the ‘90s is so very different for teens today Why depression among teen girls has gone up and down over the years, where it stands now, and what social media has to do with it How Sara Gilliam went from reading her mom’s book for teen authenticity 25 years ago to co-authoring the update with her as an adult The ways today’s teen girls helped update Reviving Ophelia for modern times How it’s too late for parents and teachers to simply tell teens to stop using smartphones, so it’s important to encourage intentionality around social media and device usage instead Links: Reviving Ophelia 25th Anniversary Edition Mary Pipher Sara Pipher Gilliam Plus: Why we simply had to get our driver’s licenses immediately Exploring the love/hate relationship we had with our early jobs Why you need to wear at least two hemp necklaces for school pictures Fuck yeah to naps and Netflix breaks during the day

Talking about money is uncomfortable for lots of people—including us! But way too many of us aren’t getting paid what we deserve, and if we want to change that, then we all need to start speaking up—for ourselves, for each other, and for a more equitable financial future. So join us for this deep dive into all things work money: how to ask for a raise, negotiate an offer, and deal with all the weird feels that come up along the way. To help us out, we’ve got clips from our first Collective Strength event, where we were joined by one of our most fave people ever: author and consultant Karen McGrane. Plus, we asked y’all to tell us what advice you’d give your younger selves about salaries and negotiation, and a bunch of you answered! So we have tips and stories from folks at lots of career stages—all designed to help you feel more prepared to go get paid. The more you do it, the less emotional it becomes, and the more it just becomes a very transactional kind of thing. The only way that you get to that place is by committing to yourself that you will negotiate every offer that you get... Every time you get a salary offer, ask for $5,000 more. Period. Every single time. And it can be more than that. Maybe you are making more money than that and it’s time for you to ask for $10,000 more or $20,000 more—I know somebody who once negotiated $100,000 more! Your ability to do that, though, starts with you being willing to ask for $5,000 more. —Karen McGrane, managing partner, Bond Art + Science If you put some of this advice to the test, we’d love to hear how it goes! Leave us a message at (267) 225–5923, send an email, or find us on Twitter! We chat about: That time Sara took on more and more work without a promotion—and ended up way behind financially. What we learned—and didn’t learn—about salaries growing up. Why negotiating your salary over the phone is the way to go, even if email feels easier. Why you should wait as long as possible to talk salary when you’re interviewing for a job. The “PITA quotient”: Remember to consider what a job will take from you then set your rate appropriately. Why Karen thinks you should always ask for at least $5,000 more in a salary negotiation (or, hell, maybe $100,000 more). How to “lovingly plot revenge” when you find out your salary is too low. Sorting out all the awkward feelings that come along with money talk. Plus: What we’re doing on our summer vacation, big love to Harvest for supporting us all year, and fuck yeah to already hearing a money success story from a Collective Strength attendee! In this episode: Karen McGrane Lauren Isaacson Kathryn Meisner Cyd Harrell Malaika Carpenter Sophie Shepherd Eugenié George Lara Hogan Susan Poulton Lynne Polischuik

Did your first management gig come with a small pay bump and zero training? Ours too! But being good at doing a job doesn’t mean you’ll automatically be good at managing people doing it. That’s where our guest, Lara Hogan, comes in! Lara is an author, public speaker, and coach for managers and leaders across the tech industry. Her latest book, Resilient Management, is brand-new this week. We’re huge fans of the way Lara throws out the playbook of a domineering boss who aims to intimidate. Instead, she’s all about nurturing, coaching, and sponsoring people— so they can grow and reach their goals. And she does it all with empathy, warmth, and humility. Love. Find [people] an opportunity. Put your name on the line for them, put your reputation on the line for them, and help them get opportunities that they are looking for. —Lara Hogan, author of Resilient Management We chat about: Lara’s new book, Resilient Management! Why there’s more to managing than just mentoring, and how to start sponsoring and coaching people, too. What goes into training to be a leadership coach, and how to find the program that’s best for you. Why moving desks in your office seems like a pretty small thing but is actually often a Big Deal in the workplace, and what that can teach us about humans’ core needs at work. Why it’s a must to get to know people who aren’t just like you in the workplace and find ways to sponsor them in their areas of interest, rather than defaulting to what you think might benefit them. Links: Lara’s new book, Resilient Management Lara on Twitter Wherewithall, Lara’s management training and coaching company Paloma Medina’s BICEPS model Plus: Screwing up when you’re the boss. Crying at work. Still worrying about that weird thing you said at a party in 2004. Realizing not having a boss is great...until you have no one to help you grow. Being on the receiving end of a thousand “I want to talk to your supervisor” conversations. Giving a big fuck yeah to the badass women who rolled up their sleeves and helped us make our first Collective Strength event happen!

What happens when one woman looks around her field and notices the leaders are mostly men? If that woman is Becca Gurney, she starts her own design studio, and creates a place that chooses to hire women, pay them fairly, and find clients ready to do the same. Becca is a Washington, DC-based graphic designer, art director, and founder of Design Choice. She’s built an agency focused on social justice issues that’s vocal about fair pay and offering work those who are often overlooked in the field—women and people of color. The hardest part is knowing what you’re worth and then sticking to it. I do a lot of research to understand what my worth should be and a lot of that research involves knowing what men who are doing what I’m doing are charging. —Becca Gurney, founder of Design Choice We chat about: How Becca makes a conscious choice to look for new women and/or people of color to work with on projects, instead of hiring the same people over and over—and why you should, too The truth behind being asked to work for peanuts all the time—even when you’re the founder of a design studio—and the importance of turning down work that doesn’t value you and your expertise How to build a supportive network when you’re just starting out as a freelancer Why keeping politics out of business isn’t required—and can actually help guide your work to new places How to figure out what your male peers are making so you can be sure you’re being paid what your work is really worth Links: Design Choice, Becca’s design studio She Freelances, a new site for finding freelancers for hire in the DC-area (and if you are a freelancer in DC, add yourself!) Plus: The conference organizer who complained about speakers asking to be paid for their work and got ratioed on LinkedIn for having such a Bad. Take. Why Eva PenzeyMoog deserves all the stars—and cash—for her talk on designing against domestic violence Why it’s important for us to share what we make, how we ask for it, and which conferences treat speakers best. Why Karine Jean-Pierre is the woman we all need in our corner.