Podcasts about jordan is

insane week for jake as he continues to grow within and adapt to the market with his new youtube channel.  Jordan Is continuing to post great content on Instagram and starting to draw some good attention! 

In today's episode, we had the lovely company of a powerful being, Jordan Shallow. Jordan Is a Chiropractor and Performance Coach, Founder of Pre-Script, an online education company teaching human anatomy and performance, and Coach for Elite FTS. He also hosts the Podcast RX Radio streaming on all platforms. He is also a Powerlifter in his spare time. He is also a primary driver in why I'm still involved in fitness myself and attributes such to him, amongst many other things, thanks Geezy. What the fuck did we talk about? Life. Just two geezy's sitting back and chopping it up about life and how we go through life—strap in it's a 3-hour banger. Download it. Listen to it. Enjoy it. --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

How To Find A Business Coach Or Mentor with Jordan Montgomery. My discussion with Jordan involved learning about the various types of performance coaches, the styles, how can someone benefit from a coach and why you would need/want one. I enjoyed this honest conversation with Jordan, his ideas and how well he spoke and conveyed his ideas and message. There's a good chance a performance coach could really improve so many things in your life, that it's worth looking into for sure. Thanks for listening! Joe #thejoecostelloshow #montgomerycompanies #performancecoach Jordan Montgomery Owner - Montgomery Companies Website: https://www.montgomerycompanies.com/ Instagram: @jordanmmontgomery Facebook: @montgomerycompanies LinkedIn: @jordanmmontgomery Podcast Music By: Andy Galore, Album: "Out and About", Song: "Chicken & Scotch" 2014 Andy's Links: http://andygalore.com/ https://www.facebook.com/andygalorebass If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts/iTunes? It takes less than 60 seconds, and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. For show notes and past guests, please visit: https://joecostelloglobal.libsyn.com Subscribe, Rate & Review: I would love if you could subscribe to the podcast and leave an honest rating & review. This will encourage other people to listen and allow us to grow as a community. The bigger we get as a community, the bigger the impact we can have on the world. Sign up for Joe's email newsletter at: https://joecostelloglobal.com/#signup For transcripts of episodes, go to: https://joecostelloglobal.lybsyn.com Follow Joe: https://linktr.ee/joecostello Transcript Jordan: Hey, Joe, thanks for having me, man. I've been following your work, and I want to say congratulations on all that you've built and continue to build. And it's an honor to have this conversation with you. Thanks. Joe: Hey, Jordan, welcome to the podcast. Man, I'm glad you're here. I'm excited to talk with you. Jordan: Well, Joe: Thanks Jordan: I appreciate Joe: For coming. Jordan: That question and I'll try to be succinct with my answer, but I grew up in southeast Iowa and a little town called Colonia in Kelowna is the smallest Joe: Thank you, man, I appreciate Jordan: One of the smallest Joe: It. 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Jordan: So Joe: So Jordan: I live in Iowa Joe: The stage Jordan: City, Joe: Is Jordan: Iowa, Joe: Yours. Jordan: Actually just outside of Iowa City and a little small town called Tiffin with my wife Ashley and our three daughters. My wife today runs the business. I run my mouth. We have a full scale coaching and consulting firm, Montgomery Companies. We have several coaching partners, and today we serve several thousand coaching clients. Those clients range from professional athletes to entrepreneurs and salespeople. We do work with some executive leaders at some larger firms. And I just have a blast getting to do what I do. And I meet some really interesting people. We get to help people think more deeply about who they are and where they're headed. And ultimately you get to help people live into who they were created to be. And it's a tremendous blessing. So I had a career in the financial services business, allowed me to pivot into this world pretty open about my professional journey. But at the end of the day, I graduated college 2010 and University of Iowa spent the last 11 years really building a skill set that's allowed us to build a business around coaching, consulting and leading people. So that's kind of the short version of my story. Obviously, there's a lot of twists and turns and gods provide a lot of grace. Jordan: Certainly I've been thankful to be around a lot of the right people. But if you're asking me the short version on how I got to where I'm at today, that's the the short version on Jordan Montgomery. Yeah, I think my dad, at the end of the day, my dad was a family man with a business, not a business man with a family. And I wanted to model that. I wanted to be a family man with a business, not a business man with a family. And I think as a driven type, a young man living in America, I kind of fight that every day. I mean, at the other day, like my wife and my kids are my top priority. But if I say they're my top priority, then that needs to show up in my calendar and that needs to be reflected in how I spend my time. And I want to be respected the most by people who know me the best. And that means that I'm a father first. I'm a husband first. I'm leading my family well. And if I lead inside the walls of my home, then I think I can lead in other areas of my life Joe: Cool. Jordan: As well. But Joe: So Jordan: I just didn't want to be Joe: First Jordan: The guy Joe: Of Jordan: That Joe: All, I love the part Jordan: Built Joe: Where you Jordan: Something Joe: Said Jordan: Professionally Joe: That because your father Jordan: But Joe: Was Jordan: Then Joe: Able Jordan: Sacrificed Joe: To make it, Jordan: Or Joe: You Jordan: Compromised Joe: Gravitated Jordan: In really other Joe: Towards Jordan: Important Joe: That Jordan: Areas Joe: Feeling Jordan: Of life. 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Not a lot of people have said that in the past on the show when they when they said, oh, I became an entrepreneur because and it was all of these other reasons. But to actually associate it with your father sitting on the sidelines, watching you play sports and concert or whatever it might be, that was really cool. Jordan: Well, and I'll say this to Joe, because there are some entrepreneurs listening that maybe don't have that flexibility, like maybe you're truly in a situation where you've got a team or your businesses in an industry that requires you to work certain hours or whatever. So that's not a shame or guilt. Anyone who's working really hard to provide, because at the end of the day, entrepreneurs are called to work longer hours is just part of the deal. So if you're in that grind right now, here's what I'd encourage you with, is somebody that's going to change and the reason that you're doing what you're doing right now, the reason that you're working as hard as you're working right now is to have the flexibility and the autonomy. And, you know, I also wasn't there for my dad's early years. Like, I missed you know, I was born when my dad was eight to 10 years into being an entrepreneur. So he earned that flexibility. So let's just not forget that that flexibility is earned. And that looks different for every entrepreneur based on the industry Joe: Yeah, that Jordan: That Joe: Was Jordan: You're Joe: Really Jordan: In Joe: Cool, and I Jordan: And Joe: Came Jordan: This Joe: From Jordan: Stage Joe: An entrepreneurial Jordan: Of Joe: Family as well. Jordan: The business Joe: The Jordan: That Joe: Unfortunate Jordan: You're in. Joe: Thing for Jordan: So Joe: Me is that Jordan: I think Joe: My Jordan: That's Joe: Father Jordan: Important to Joe: Could Jordan: Underscore. Joe: Not attend most of my stuff. So when you said it, it kind of hit home and I hold nothing. He's passed on at this point. But I never held a grudge because he just he worked his butt off and and just to provide and create something great. So it never struck me the other way. It wasn't Jordan: Yeah. Joe: Like I was resentful over it. But I just love the way you framed that whole thing. That was really cool. Jordan: Well, yeah, you know, I just I fell in love with sports at a really early age. I just love competition. I loved competing. I love watching other people compete. I love the atmosphere. I love the energy that goes into a sports competition. I'm still the guy, Joe. Like, I will watch one shining moment at the end of the final four for those who are familiar with that show. I cry every year when I watch that one shining, but that little three minute clip. And I think part of the reason I get emotional about that as you watch young people get emotional over competition. And I just loved the rush of competition. I loved watching people give their all to a very specific activity, blood, sweat and tears. And Joe: Yeah, absolutely, Jordan: So Joe: I totally Jordan: I just fell Joe: Agree Jordan: In love with sports Joe: And Jordan: At a young Joe: I'm Jordan: Age. Joe: Still Jordan: I played Joe: Working Jordan: Sports Joe: Like Jordan: All the way Joe: Crazy, Jordan: Through high school. Joe: But Jordan: I did Joe: It's Jordan: Not compete Joe: Just Jordan: In college. Joe: Because Jordan: And Joe: I Jordan: It's something Joe: Don't Jordan: That's Joe: Say no Jordan: Kind Joe: And Jordan: Of Joe: I Jordan: Interesting Joe: Just keep Jordan: About Joe: Adding Jordan: My story Joe: More and more Jordan: And background. Joe: To my plate. 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Joe: Or to Jordan: You Joe: Me, Jordan: Know, Joe: You looked Jordan: At the Joe: Like Jordan: End of the Joe: You Jordan: Day, Joe: Were a football Jordan: I think Joe: Player. Jordan: It athletes Joe: I was like, maybe Jordan: In a really Joe: He played Jordan: Unique Joe: For Jordan: World Joe: The Hawkeyes. Jordan: Where they Joe: I Jordan: Give Joe: Don't Jordan: So Joe: Know. Jordan: Much of their time for such a really, really small window of competition. You know, you think a lot like the average NFL athlete will compete for less than two hours, whistle to whistle over the course of a season. But they can be literally all year round and they'll get paid, graded and evaluated for what they do inside of two hours. All year long, but it's kind of a metaphor for it for all of us, right, because the reality is each one of us is practicing for little moments, for small moments. Some of them we can predict, some of them we can't. But you get paid and your best to show you get paid really, really, really well to be prepared Joe: Hmm. Jordan: In small little windows of time. And so I developed the sort of fascination or obsession with helping athletes prepare and be at their best when that small window of opportunity presents itself and, you know, your clutch, your clutch when you can show up and do normal things. In an abnormal times, so like Derek Jeter, Kobe Bryant, you know, they're considered clutch because at the end of the day, they could show up normal. They could just be who they were because they had practiced so much in the most important windows of time. And it's a really interesting metaphor that we can apply to all of life. Yeah. Yeah, well, it's it's a pursuit of excellence, right, and you know, I'm reading a book right now by Tim Grover, The Unforgiving Race to Greatness, and it's called Winning. And, Joe: Yeah, it's Jordan: You know, there's Joe: And Jordan: So much of what Tim Joe: Again, Jordan: Grover preaches Joe: People Jordan: That I Joe: That Jordan: Really love. Joe: Maybe Jordan: I'm Joe: Just Jordan: Not Joe: Watch sports casually Jordan: Maybe not aligned Joe: Don't Jordan: With one Joe: Understand Jordan: Hundred percent of it, Joe: The Jordan: But Joe: Grueling Jordan: Winning has a price, Joe: Effort Jordan: You know, in Joe: In the lifelong Jordan: Pursuing your Joe: Commitment Jordan: Calling has a price Joe: To potentially Jordan: Regardless Joe: Never, Jordan: Of what you do, Joe: Ever Jordan: You know, sports or otherwise. Joe: Getting Jordan: If you're an Joe: That Jordan: Athlete, Joe: Chance Jordan: Great. But Joe: In Jordan: If Joe: The sports Jordan: You're an entrepreneur, Joe: World and Jordan: There's going to Joe: Used Jordan: Be a cost Joe: To have some really good friends Jordan: Associated Joe: On the Buffalo Jordan: With Joe: Bills Jordan: Your calling. Joe: Football team because Jordan: And Joe: I went to college Jordan: I Joe: Out Jordan: Think Joe: There Jordan: Sports is the epitome Joe: And Jordan: Of that. Joe: I was Jordan: But certainly Joe: A musician. Jordan: Entrepreneurship Joe: I was Jordan: Is Joe: In a band. Jordan: Is Joe: They Jordan: Right Joe: Loved Jordan: There Joe: Our band and they used Jordan: With being Joe: To come Jordan: With being Joe: And Jordan: An athlete Joe: Hang Jordan: In Joe: Out. Jordan: Terms Joe: We've got Jordan: Of Joe: The dinner with Jordan: Making Joe: Them and Jordan: Sacrifice. Joe: You would hear the stories. And it's just to live on the edge of not knowing if you're playing or you're sitting each day and who's who's looking for your spot and the work so hard and give up so much from a really young age all the way through. It's unbelievable. You know, and I watch certain friends here in Arizona, believe it or not, Arizona has got a very big hockey base. You know, like fans love hockey. And there's a lot of kids that come here, play hockey, play on the farm team of the coyotes or and we've had friends that had their kids just go through all in hockey. Moms and dads have the worst it's the worst schedule I've ever seen. And to go all the way to the very end and be on the farm team and never get called up. And I can't even imagine that it's just grueling. Jordan: Yeah, well, you know, there's there's a lot that goes into speaking, right, speaking as an art form, and in today's world, attention is currency. So something we think about a lot and the keynote speaking world is you've got Joe: Mm Jordan: To Joe: Hmm. Jordan: Keep people's attention. And if you can't, you're out, you're done. You'll never be the really high demand keynote speaker if you don't know how to keep somebody's attention. So there's multiple ways that we do that. One of the ways that we keep people's attention is through story. It's a story sell facts, tell. When you get really good Joe: Yeah, Jordan: At telling stories, Joe: Yeah, I Jordan: You keep Joe: Agree. Jordan: People's attention. Joe: Ok, Jordan: In Joe: So Jordan: Fact, Joe: Enough about sports. Jordan: If I Joe: I Jordan: Were to Joe: Watched Jordan: Tell you about Joe: The video Jordan: My business, Joe: Of Jordan: If Joe: You Jordan: I were Joe: Working Jordan: To say, well, Joe: With Jordan: You know, Joe, Joe: The Hawkeyes Jordan: These are the five Joe: And Jordan: Things that I do my Joe: I Jordan: Business, or Joe: Was watching as Jordan: If Joe: The Jordan: I said, hey, Joe: Camera Jordan: Joe, Joe: Went around the room, I Jordan: Let Joe: Was Jordan: Me tell Joe: Watching Jordan: You a story. Joe: To see how intently Jordan: The minute I said, I'll Joe: The Jordan: Tell Joe: Players Jordan: You a story, Joe: Were listening Jordan: I would actually Joe: To you. Jordan: Activate Joe: And Jordan: Your brain Joe: Like I was Jordan: At 12 Joe: Watching Jordan: Times Joe: Their eyes Jordan: The Joe: And Jordan: Capacity. 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Jordan: Think eye Joe: When I Jordan: Contact Joe: Watched Jordan: And tonality Joe: Even Jordan: Is Joe: The speaking Jordan: Is another Joe: Engagements Jordan: Big one, right? There's Joe: At Jordan: A difference Joe: The corporations Jordan: Between communicating Joe: That you've Jordan: And Joe: Done, Jordan: Connecting. People Joe: You Jordan: Want to feel Joe: Have a really Jordan: Like you're Joe: Good flow. Jordan: Speaking to them Joe: You don't Jordan: Like, Joe: Use Jordan: Wow, Joe: All Jordan: This guy's Joe: Of the Jordan: Speaking directly Joe: Weird words Jordan: To me. Joe: That people use Jordan: And Joe: All the time. Jordan: It sounds Joe: Tell Jordan: So Joe: Me Jordan: Simple, Joe: How you do Jordan: But what's Joe: It. Jordan: Common sense is not always kind of practice. If you watch your average keynote speaker, their eyes will kind of drift all throughout the room to look down, look sideways. I think at the speaker, you want to keep constant eye contact. And then the other thing I think about is being really you centered in the message being you centered. So I'm going to use two people's names. I'm going to pick people out in the crowd. I'm going to touch people, maybe even on the shoulder or the arm as I'm speaking. And I'm going to move through the crowd. And so much of communication is nonverbal, right? 90 percent is nonverbal. It's not what you say, it's how you say it. And it's also not what you say. It's what people hear and it's what they remember. Maya Angelou famously said it's not what you say that people remember. It's how you make them feel. And so I try to stay really in tune with how I make people feel. A lot of that is my energy, my body language. It's you focus communication, it's telling stories, and it's the difference between connecting and communicating. So if you're listening and you're thinking about your communication style or maybe you want to develop your craft as a keynote speaker, those are a few things that you could consider. Jordan: And I'll say this to Joe. I'm a long way away from where I want to be. I got a long way to go. So those are things that I think about repetitiously. And I get obsessed with the practice of my craft. And I'm evaluating and observing high level keynote speakers. You know, how do they move? What do they say? What do they not say? You know, their pace, their tonality, the way that they tell stories, their presence. Yeah, those are all things that I'm paying attention to. So I appreciate your kind words. I think communication as an art form is no different than playing an instrument or doing a dance. And for anybody that's in sales, for any entrepreneur, if you're not taking that seriously as you develop and grow your business, that's something to really consider and think about. Because whether you're speaking to an audience of one hundred or a thousand or an audience of five or ten, you're in the human connection business before you're in the construction business or before you're in the marketing business or financial planning business or real estate business. We've got to remember that the human connection is at the center of everything that we do. Well, thank you. It's kind of you to say. I did and I went to school for interdepartmental studies, which is a fancy way to cover recreational management, so I literally wanted to go to school, have a great social experience, and then start a business and the fitness world. Jordan: That was kind of my dream. And so I took some entrepreneurial courses, got a degree in recreation management, fell into finance and in two things were true. I didn't want to have a boss, so I went to work for myself and I wanted to create my own schedule that that was it. I want to call my shots, create my own schedule. But I didn't have any money and I didn't have any experience. And so I fell into financial services because it allowed me to be in business for myself, but not by myself. So I had a great support system. It was kind of like a franchise model, had a lot of success in that world at an early stage, had a big event in my life in twenty fifteen that really have me thinking about my future in a deeper way. And then I decided to pivot into sort of the consulting and coaching world making financial planning, kind of our kind of our core client. And so in a very early stage in a coaching business, financial advisers were some of our first clients by way of my background in the financial planning world. Joe: Yeah, and you do it incredibly well, my friend. So thank you. So let's just backtrack really quickly so that I can get the progression from college into starting this company. So did you go to school for finance? Jordan: I think it's so true Joe: Ok. Jordan: In life and in business, definitely in entrepreneurship, where we're leading people, that more is caught than taught. Joe: Ok. Jordan: And so nobody really taught me how to coach. But I watched other people coach and I watched other people in my industry that do what I'm doing now, do it at a really high level. And again, I paid attention to quality of life. I paid attention to the relationships. I paid attention to the way that they manage their decisions and manage their time. And I thought, you know, I want to do that. I think I can do that. And I actually did it in tandem with my own financial planning. And so I started sort of coaching on the side and I had really been coaching all the while I was in financial planning and some aspect working with clients. But I also started getting asked to speak and do workshops. And so I sort of fell in love with that work, Joe. But the reality is I had a couple of mentors. I had some key people in my life that had done that work in a really high level. One of those people is a guy by the name of Ben Newman. Another guy is John Wright Senior. And they both had Joe: How did Jordan: Big Joe: Coaching Jordan: Coaching Joe: Catch your Jordan: Practices Joe: Eye, or Jordan: Working with Joe: Was it because Jordan: Professional Joe: You were Jordan: Athletes Joe: Just taking Jordan: And Fortune Joe: From Jordan: 500 Joe: Your Jordan: Executive Joe: Love of Jordan: Leaders. Joe: Sports Jordan: And Joe: Being a coach? Right. Jordan: I just Joe: I Jordan: Admired Joe: Mean, just Jordan: The work. Joe: Taking Jordan: I thought, Joe: That, Jordan: You know, Joe: But Jordan: I think Joe: Now Jordan: I Joe: Saying, Jordan: Can Joe: Ok, Jordan: Do that. Joe: Wait, Jordan: I got a lot to learn, Joe: I want Jordan: But Joe: To do a little Jordan: I'll Joe: Bit Jordan: Learn Joe: Of that Jordan: As I Joe: With Jordan: Go. Joe: Sports Jordan: And Joe: People. I want to do that with Jordan: Just Joe: Entrepreneurs. Jordan: Like you or any Joe: I want Jordan: Other Joe: To do Jordan: Entrepreneur, Joe: It with Jordan: You Joe: With Jordan: Kind Joe: Business Jordan: Of dive headfirst Joe: People. Jordan: And just Joe: I mean, Jordan: Hope Joe: What Jordan: It works Joe: Made Jordan: Out. Joe: You Jordan: So Joe: Wake up one day and Jordan: Our Joe: Say, Jordan: Business Joe: Yeah, Jordan: Grew Joe: I Jordan: Rapidly, Joe: Want to do coaching and Jordan: By Joe: I Jordan: God's Joe: Want to Jordan: Grace, Joe: Do it Jordan: Into Joe: In Jordan: The help Joe: This Jordan: Of a lot Joe: Form? Jordan: Of good people. And I woke up one day and I thought, you know what? I could leave my financial planning business based on what we built in the coaching business. And then we started to add more partners and multiply our efforts through other people. And that's when it really starts to get financed, when you can impact the world or you can impact the world around you through the people that work with you. So virtually everybody on our team right now, with the exception of maybe two to three people there in the coaching business, so their coaching partners, so they're leading, they're doing coaching and consulting work, either individual coaching group, coaching, keynote speaking, they're all contracted out. So some of them have five clients, some of them have 30 clients. We have a couple that have just a couple of clients and they're all sort of specialized. So we have some former professional athletes. We have some people that came from the ministry world. So they're actually pastors or they have been pastors. And then we have some people in the world of sales. We have some real estate agents and financial advisers. Some of them are very technical. Somebody might say a more motivational, but all of them are for hire as coaching partners. It's my job to lead them and make sure that they're getting what they need from a content standpoint and also just keeping them connected to to a vision and and keeping them connected to our company. But we're having a ton of fun. I mean, it's it's awesome to be on a team. It's fun to be a part of something that's bigger than just me. And, you know, each one of them is unique in terms of what they bring to the table. Joe: So that's a great segue because you do have a fairly Jordan: You Joe: Sizable Jordan: Know, what's Joe: Team. Jordan: Most important Joe: So Jordan: To us, Joe, Joe: What Jordan: Is that Joe: Do those Jordan: We all Joe: Team Jordan: Have Joe: Members Jordan: Similar Joe: Do Jordan: Values, Joe: For you? Jordan: So I want to give people the freedom and flexibility to be autonomous and how they work with clients. And so I've never told somebody, hey, here's the five step plan. Here's exactly what you have to do. Now, I'll make some general suggestions about the way that we lead people and care for people. But at the end of the day, most of the people that are on our coaching platform have been wildly successful in other arenas. And so they've been leading. They've been coaching. They've been training and developing people. So I think we're aligned in terms of our values. But beyond that, I want them to really operate in their true giftedness. And for some of them, that giftedness is in listening. You know, for some of them, it's in the world of neuroscience. You know, they just really understand how the brain works for others. They're just big on accountability, the kind like the bulldog that's in your face. It's really intense and motivational. So we want people to be who they are. We want them to have strong values, which for us means their faith filled and family oriented. And if they're faith filled, family oriented, others focus. They're usually a good fit for our coaching Joe: Did Jordan: Practice. Joe: They follow Jordan: And then, of course, Joe: A Jordan: There Joe: Certain Jordan: Are some other criteria Joe: Structure Jordan: That we want to Joe: That Jordan: Vet Joe: You Jordan: Out. Joe: Have Jordan: But Joe: Set up Jordan: That's Joe: So Jordan: A that's Joe: That Jordan: A good question. Joe: When someone hires one of those people, they know that if they're getting the quality of the Montgomery companies coach and there's a certain structure formula, something like that? The. Jordan: Yeah. Yeah, I would say that's that's very true of of our team, I think we're well positioned to help just about anybody in any industry with any problem. You know, there's a few that we would say, hey, we're not not licensed to do that. We're not going to dive into that space. But for the most part, if it is in the world of performance sales and driving results, there's somebody on our team that can handle the issue of the opportunity. Yes, so there's really two components to coaching for us and our business model, one is group coaching and one individual coaching, and those are obviously very separate. If I'm working with an individual client and we're talking about the phases of coaching or how I work with a client, first is discovery. So the answers you get are only as good as the questions that you ask. And people don't care how Joe: Cool. Jordan: Much you know Joe: Well, Jordan: Until Joe: I Jordan: They Joe: Just Jordan: Know that you care. Joe: It's important Jordan: And Joe: Because Jordan: To Joe: I Jordan: Us, Joe: When Jordan: It's Joe: I Jordan: A Joe: Went Jordan: Relationship. Joe: And looked at the website, I was like, Jordan: And Joe: This Jordan: So Joe: Is this Jordan: I Joe: Is Jordan: Always Joe: Cool. Jordan: Tell Joe: You Jordan: People, Joe: Have a Jordan: Hey, Joe: Really Jordan: I'm Joe: Cool team Jordan: A coach, Joe: Around Jordan: Which means Joe: You. And Jordan: I'm Joe: I Jordan: Going Joe: Wanted Jordan: To hold Joe: To Jordan: You Joe: Find Jordan: Accountable. Joe: Out if there Jordan: I'm Joe: Was Jordan: Going Joe: A variety Jordan: To share ideas Joe: In Jordan: Where to talk about Joe: What Jordan: Concepts Joe: They Jordan: And strategy, Joe: Coach on Jordan: Just Joe: Which Jordan: Like Joe: You Jordan: Any Joe: Answered Jordan: Coach Joe: That question. They Jordan: Would. Joe: Do. You have people that Jordan: The Joe: Specialize Jordan: Difference Joe: In Jordan: In Joe: All Jordan: Our Joe: Sorts Jordan: Approach, Joe: Of things. Jordan: I Joe: So Jordan: Think, is Joe: It's Jordan: That Joe: Great Jordan: I'm also Joe: That Jordan: A Joe: If Jordan: Strategic Joe: Someone Jordan: Partner. Joe: Loves working with you for all Jordan: And so Joe: The reasons Jordan: If I sign Joe: That Jordan: Up Joe: They Jordan: To work Joe: Love Jordan: With a client, Joe: To work with you, they Jordan: What Joe: Can Jordan: That means Joe: Get Jordan: Is Joe: Basically whatever Jordan: I'm going Joe: They Jordan: To advocate, Joe: Need under one roof, Jordan: I'm going Joe: Which Jordan: To support, Joe: Is cool. It's Jordan: I'm Joe: Not Jordan: Going Joe: Like Jordan: To connect Joe: You do. It's not one Jordan: And Joe: Dimensional Jordan: I'm going to highlight Joe: In any Jordan: And spotlight Joe: Any way, Jordan: Who Joe: Shape Jordan: You Joe: Or form. Jordan: Are and what you do. That means that my network is your network. It means if you want to speak engaged, we're going to help you with that. If you need marketing help or we're going to help you with that. If I need to get you connected to another leader, I'm going to help you with that. If we need help, you track down a client or prospect, I'm going to help you with that. So it's our approach is a little bit different that way. It's it's heavily based around relationship. The relationship has to start with Joe: All right, Jordan: Discovery. Joe: Cool. So let's talk about Jordan: One of my Joe: The Jordan: Other Joe: Coaching Jordan: Beliefs, Joe, is Joe: Part Jordan: That if Joe: Of it, Jordan: I'm working Joe: And Jordan: With a client, Joe: If Jordan: It's always Joe: You can go through Jordan: 100 percent Joe: And tell Jordan: Of the time, Joe: Me the Jordan: Their time, not Joe: Different Jordan: Mine. Joe: Types Jordan: Which Joe: Of Jordan: Means Joe: Services Jordan: I've got to Joe: That Jordan: Deal Joe: You Jordan: With Joe: Have Jordan: The issues, Joe: For the coaching Jordan: The Joe: Piece Jordan: Opportunities Joe: Of. Jordan: And the challenges that are most present for them right away before I try to drive my agenda. So if I show up to the call and I say, hey, Joe, here's three things I want to talk about today. Here's the here's the new approach to closing a sale or here's the new approach to the discovery process or whatever. And I find out that your dog just died or that you just lost the key employee or that your house just burned down. But I'm using really dramatic examples. But anyway, the point, is there something else on your mind? I'm missing it. I'm not know I've failed to connect with you, and candidly, I failed to lead you. So the first question I asked to all of our coaching clients and a coaching meeting, and they would tell you, this is not to say, hey, Joe, how do we create space to discuss and talk about the things that are most pressing, interesting and relevant for you today? I want to start there and then we'll recap and we'll talk about some of the stuff that we've talked about the past. I'm always, you know, forcing accountability. So we're we're bringing things to the forefront. Did you do X, Y and Z to do that or Yapp with that? But we addressed the issues that are most present. And then I'm always trying to share ideas and concepts that I feel like are relevant to them based on the seasonal life there in industry they're in or what they've said that they needed help with. Conversations tend to be fairly organic because, again, it's it's a relationship. And, you know, people open up to us about all kinds of stuff, their marriage, their finances, their friendships, their their problems that go way beyond their professional life. Jordan: So I appreciate the question. I don't know if I if I answered it exactly. But to give you a window into our world and how we work with people, that that's sort of our our process and style. You know, right now we work with such a wide range of people, Joe, so I'm not as concerned about like industry or niche. Here's what I what I'm really concerned with this character traits. So they've got to be values oriented, right? They got to care. They're going to be a decent person. In other words, if they just want to go make all the money in the world, they don't want to leave their family. I'm probably not a good fit. I'm going to challenge them on their values and lead in their family and growing in their faith. And that's part of who I am. But that's not for everybody. But so we're probably not a good fit if that's not part of who they are. And then the second thing that I would tell you is they got to be open minded. They have to be willing to learn. They have to be somebody that enjoys new information and new ways of thinking. A new perspective, fresh perspective. Right. Doesn't mean that I'm always right or my perspective is the right perspective. It just means that they're willing to listen right there. They're willing to hear and then they're willing to be challenged. So they want somebody to ask them the tough questions and share the truth and mix even said it best. You said average players want to be left alone. Good players want to be coached, great players want the truth. I want people that want the truth. I want people that really want to be challenged. Joe: Great. Jordan: They've Joe: So Jordan: Got Joe: Before Jordan: An open Joe: We Jordan: Mind Joe: Move to Jordan: And they have strong Joe: A Jordan: Values. Joe: Group coaching piece Jordan: And Joe: Of it, Jordan: If they've Joe: Because Jordan: Got those Joe: We just Jordan: Three Joe: Talked Jordan: Things, Joe: About the one on Jordan: They're Joe: One. Jordan: Usually a good fit for Joe: What's Jordan: Our coaching Joe: Your sweet Jordan: Practice. Joe: Spot? Who who are the people that you feel you work best with or can can help the best. Jordan: So the group coaches typically kind of a one hour session, we try to kind of meet people where they're at. So I work with organizations, as do our partners, to figure out, hey, what really do you need? What's the right time frame? What's the right size? I'd love to tell you that we've got, like, this specific program. It's cookie cutter. It's not. But that's by design. We really want to be a partner and meet people where they're at. So sometimes it's a small as is five people. I've got one group right now, 60, which I think is a little too big. What's important to us is that that's it's intimate or as intimate as it can be where people really feel like, you know, them. And and so we call on people. I try to get to know everybody by name and remember little facts about who they are and what's important to them. It's highly interactive. So I'm calling on people throughout the session. Usually I'm delivering 30 minutes of content or 30 minutes of discussion. We challenge challenge on the spot. I have other people challenge each other. I always say this in our group coaching program that where you sit determines what you see and you see something different than everybody else's and different is valuable. And so what that means is your voice matters because whether you're the most experienced person on the call are the least experienced person on the call, you see something that nobody else in the organization sees. And so we need your voice. We need your perspective, because you've got a different perspective than everybody else. So, Johnny, that sits at the front desk, that's the director of First Impressions, has some really valuable Joe: Awesome, Jordan: Perspective Joe: I Jordan: Because Joe: Love Jordan: Johnny Joe: That. OK, cool. Jordan: Sees Joe: So Jordan: Something Joe: The group Jordan: That Sarah, Joe: Coaching, Jordan: The CEO, Joe: What does that entail? Jordan: Doesn't see. And so we really just try to foster conversation, encourage people and empower people to share and speak up and then deliver content that's inclusive and relevant to the group. Yes, so much of our business is virtual, it just kind of always has been and most a lot of our clients aren't local. So they're you know, they're kind of spread out. We have people all over the US. I'm pretty used to Zoom calls and phone calls, and I speak a lot. Right. So keynote speaking is live often, but we still do virtual keynotes as well. So it's a good mixture, I would say, in so many ways covid changed our business. I was always willing to do things virtually, but I think a lot of companies weren't until they realized like, hey, we can do it this way. And so for me, as a person with a young family, it allowed me to stay at home and I didn't have to. I wasn't on a plane twice a week sleeping in a hotel. So so covid in some ways I'd be careful how I say this, because it was a really difficult time for a lot of people for our business. It actually affected my day to day rhythm or quality of life and I think a positive way and allowed me to be more present with my family. So it's a good mix of both. But I would say the pandemic certainly forced it to be more virtual. Joe: The coaching business, covid or not covid, were you doing live coaching up until that point and now a lot of Jordan: Yeah, Joe: It has shifted Jordan: I would say Joe: Onto Jordan: A good Joe: Like Zoom Jordan: Portion Joe: Calls and things Jordan: Of Joe: Like Jordan: Our Joe: That, Jordan: Clients Joe: Or Jordan: Are either Joe: How your Jordan: In Joe: Business Jordan: Sales or entrepreneurs, Joe: Today and what's Jordan: You know, Joe: The Jordan: So Joe: Mixture Jordan: There Joe: Of live Jordan: In fact, Joe: Versus Jordan: I would say it's Joe: Online? Jordan: Probably 80 percent of our business, either business owners or they're in sales and then there's maybe 20 percent that are in the world of executive leadership or sports. So that's kind of a mix of our business. When I say executive leadership, they're a leader in some sort of a corporate setting, but it's starting to change more every day. Like we work. I work right now with a group of physicians. We've got a gal that owns a very successful cosmetology clinic. So her whole thing is cosmetology Joe: Yep. Jordan: And she's been wildly successful and real estate agents and financial advisors and and college athletes and pro athletes. And so it's a it's a it's a wide range of people. Joe: Perfect out of the clients that you have, what is the percentage of general corporations, then entrepreneurs and then sports related? OK. Awesome. OK, we're closing in on the amount of time that I have you for, which is unfortunate because I love talking with you and I love your approach. I'm getting hit up left Jordan: Yeah, Joe: And right Jordan: Yeah, Joe: With Jordan: Yeah, so Joe: People that Jordan: Got Joe: Have coaching Jordan: Multiple Joe: Businesses Jordan: Answers to the question Joe: Are their personal Jordan: That you just ask, and Joe: Coaches Jordan: It's a great question, Joe: Or their life Jordan: By the Joe: Coaches Jordan: Way, Joe: Or whatever. Jordan: Tom Joe: And Jordan: Landry Joe: There's something Jordan: Probably Joe: About Jordan: Said Joe: Your approach Jordan: It best. Joe: That's Jordan: He said Joe: Just different that Jordan: Koshin Joe: Really I gravitated Jordan: Is Joe: Towards. Jordan: Allowing Joe: And I'm going Jordan: People Joe: To put Jordan: To Joe: You Jordan: Hear Joe: On the spot Jordan: What they Joe: Just Jordan: Don't Joe: Because Jordan: Want to hear, Joe: This is something that I Jordan: Helping Joe: Think people Jordan: People see what Joe: Will Jordan: They don't Joe: Ask Jordan: Want Joe: Themselves Jordan: To see Joe: In Jordan: So Joe: And Jordan: They can become Joe: They don't Jordan: The person Joe: Know the answer to. Jordan: They Joe: But Jordan: Always wanted to become. Joe: People would say, well, why do I need Jordan: That's Joe: A personal Jordan: That's what Joe: Coach? Jordan: Koshien Joe: Why Jordan: Is, Joe: Would that person Jordan: Right, Joe: Across Jordan: And Joe: From me, Jordan: The reality is we Joe: Whether it's Jordan: All Joe: In Jordan: Have Joe: Person Jordan: Blindspots, Joe: Or via Zoom Jordan: Myself Joe: Call, Jordan: Included. Joe: Know anything Jordan: So I've always Joe: More Jordan: Had Joe: About Jordan: A coach, Joe: Me Jordan: I got three Joe: Or my Jordan: Now. Joe: Business Jordan: I've always Joe: Or Jordan: Had Joe: Be Jordan: One. Joe: Able to help? Jordan: I had Joe: And Jordan: 10. Joe: I think Jordan: Over Joe: There's Jordan: The last Joe: There's Jordan: Five Joe: Definitely Jordan: Years, Joe: People that decided Jordan: The Joe: One Jordan: Average Joe: Day they will Jordan: Olympic Joe: Come, said, I'm going Jordan: Athlete Joe: To be a life coach. So Jordan: Has Joe: They Jordan: Seven Joe: Sort of Jordan: Different Joe: Created Jordan: Coaches. Joe: A Jordan: And Joe: Bad name Jordan: I Joe: For Jordan: Think as Joe: The people Jordan: You grow, Joe: That really Jordan: There's Joe: Do it Jordan: What Joe: Well. Jordan: Happens Joe: Right. Jordan: Is there's this paradox Joe: So Jordan: Of education. Joe: You're Jordan: The Joe: One Jordan: More Joe: Of the Jordan: You Joe: Few Jordan: Learn, Joe: People that I've had on where I could Jordan: The Joe: Ask Jordan: More you Joe: This Jordan: Realize Joe: Question, Jordan: You Joe: Too, Jordan: Don't Joe: And Jordan: Know. Joe: Say, OK, I know I'm going Jordan: It's Joe: To really Jordan: Always Joe: Get Jordan: Sort Joe: A Jordan: Of evolving Joe: Good, honest answer. Jordan: In our our Joe: And Jordan: Self Joe: So I'm Jordan: Awareness. Joe: Putting you on the spot for Jordan: But Joe: The Jordan: We Joe: Coaching Jordan: Don't have blind Joe: Community Jordan: Spots Joe: Because I Jordan: And Joe: It's something Jordan: We don't know Joe: That Jordan: What we don't know. Joe: I've never Jordan: And Joe: Had Jordan: So Joe: A Jordan: You Joe: Coach Jordan: Need Joe: And I probably Jordan: Somebody Joe: Could have Jordan: Else Joe: Used Jordan: To Joe: A coach. Jordan: Speak Joe: I probably Jordan: Truth Joe: Can use Jordan: And life Joe: A coach. Jordan: And Joe: That would Jordan: Give Joe: Be Jordan: You Joe: My Jordan: Feedback Joe: Question is like, well, Jordan, Jordan: And Joe: Why Jordan: Be real Joe: Do you know anything Jordan: And candid Joe: More about Jordan: And Joe: It? Jordan: Give Joe: Obviously, Jordan: It to Joe: You're Jordan: You Joe: Going Jordan: With Joe: To do Jordan: Love. Joe: A discovery, Jordan: Right. Joe: Right? Jordan: And Joe: We're going to Jordan: And Joe: Learn Jordan: With Joe: About Jordan: Care. Joe: Each other and you're going to learn Jordan: But Joe: What what I Jordan: What Joe: Do Jordan: I found Joe: On a daily basis Jordan: Is most Joe: And and Jordan: People Joe: Things. Jordan: Aren't Joe: And then Jordan: Receiving Joe: Looking Jordan: Enough Joe: At it from another Jordan: Feedback. Joe: Point of view, you can help. But Jordan: Even those Joe: I want Jordan: Who were Joe: You Jordan: At the Joe: To Jordan: Top Joe: Answer that Jordan: Of their Joe: Question Jordan: Game, I'll Joe: For Jordan: Give Joe: Me, Jordan: You an example Joe: Especially Jordan: Where this shows Joe: For the Jordan: Up, Joe: Listeners Jordan: Joe Joe: And entrepreneurs Jordan: Shows Joe: Out Jordan: Up Joe: There Jordan: In communication Joe: Going, Jordan: All Joe: Man, Jordan: The time. Joe: I'm alone every day Jordan: So Joe: In this business. I Jordan: None Joe: Don't Jordan: Of Joe: Have Jordan: Us are Joe: Anybody Jordan: Perfect. We Joe: Else Jordan: All have Joe: Helping Jordan: A lot to Joe: Me. Jordan: Learn when it Joe: Do Jordan: Comes Joe: I Jordan: To Joe: Need Jordan: Our communication Joe: A coach Jordan: Style, Joe: Or Dulli? Jordan: What we say, how our body moves, our tonality, our pace. So we test out salespeople all the time. So I'll get hired by a bigwig financial adviser. First of all, have 20 years of experience, a team of 20 people there doing tens of millions of dollars revenue, that they're very successful. And so they hire us. They hire me to come in and do coaching work with them. And every one of them has sort of a different set of needs. But one of the things that we always talk about, at least on some level, is our communication style. Right, because they're in sales and they're communicating all day, every day for a living. So I challenge this financial advisor. Usually within the first few meetings, I'll say, hey, I want you to send me your approach language, which is really their what they say to engage a client and conversation. So it's a first time meeting and this is the first five minutes of sort of the introductory meeting. And I can I can feel their energy when I when I challenge them and I say, I want you to send me that communication. Their energy is like at a negative to. Right, they're thinking you're going to bill me X for coaching, I've been doing this for 20 years, like what I don't need is help on the basics of what I say. And, you know, I can just feel that just not really excited about that. Jordan: But I challenge him. I say I think this is a really important part of our work together. It helps me understand who you are and how you're showing up for people. So send that over when you get some time. So they send it over and it's not going to have all the answers. But I'm willing to listen to it repeatedly. Our team listens to it repeatedly. And then we give them an analysis. We give them feedback. The energy level, when we give them feedback, goes from a negative two to a 10. Every single time. Because they do not know what they do not know. And I just had a guy the other day, I said, OK, so when the first two minutes of your communication, you said the word thirty seven times. Did you know that? You know, hey, the way that you show up, did you know that you use me focused conversation? Over and over, you are literally saying I my, me repeatedly. And you were doing it for 20 years and nobody has ever told you that you're doing it, and that's a shame because you would connect with people and a deeper and more meaningful way because you would be able to drive better results. You would have more purposeful conversation if you could just make that one small tweak. Jordan: You know, we could end the conversation at the cozy relationship right there, and the time that we had spent together would have been massively impactful. Again, not because I have all the answers, but because I'm willing to listen, give real feedback and press in on blind spots that we all have. And the last thing I'll say is people need to be encouraged. You know, people will go farther than they think they can when someone else thinks they can, period. And I don't care for the most successful person, the least successful person, the most experienced, the least experienced. I'm working with a guy the other day, Fortune 500, executive leader, big time leader of people. They had a record breaking year at the firm. Unbelievable year. This guy is in charge of literally hundreds of direct reports. And I asked him in a conversation, I just said, hey, how many people told you over this past fiscal year? So you just wrapped up the year. How many people told you? Good job. And he says, well, like, what do you mean? I said, you know what I mean? Like e-mails, texts, phone calls. Like how many people reached out to you said, hey, good job, great you. And he said, Zira. Zero people had picked up the phone and sent a text instead of an email, so the point is this job that I've worked with, this guy named John. Jordan: So the point is this, John, that you need to be encouraged. You need somebody to point out what you're doing. Well. You need somebody to touch your heart and remind you of who God made you to be and all of the natural God given giftedness that's inside of you. And I just want to share with you it's an honor to be able to do that for you and with you. But let me let me help you see what I see. Let's look back at the last 12 months. Here's what you've achieved. In that moment, I think I think when you step into somebody's life in that way, you're a lid lifter and you do it authentically and you help them see more and you help them see before. Man, I think you're in a position of strength relationally. And I think that person at that moment realizes that that relationship means more than they ever realized. So there's a lot that we can say about coaching. But I think, Joe, when you touch somebody's heart, when you appreciate people for who they are, when you point out their God given gift A. and when you deliver the truth and love and you point out the blindspots, you can be a world class coach and it has nothing to do with what you know, it's all about. Jordan: You show up and serve people. Well, that's just my answer. I don't know if it's the right answer by anybody else's standard, but in my world, it's the way that I try to live each and every day with the people that we serve. I love it. Yeah, so here's what I'd say, we do a lot of work through social media, so Instagram is probably where I'm most active. I'm Jordan and Montgomery on Instagram, so I would love it. If you want to get in touch to send a direct message, I'll communicate back with you. I would love to connect Montgomery Companies dot com is on our website. I'm also active on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, and if anybody reaches out, I will gladly respond. If you got a question, if you're wrestling with an issue, an opportunity I'd love to talk to it with and be of service to anybody listening. And Joe, I want to say thank you for having me on your show. It's an honor. It's always an honor to share your great with the questions that, yes, it's very clear that you showed up prepared and you also had great energy. And so I just want to say thank you for your time and attention. Thanks for who you are and for what you're putting out into the world. It's making a difference. I. Right back at you, brother.

Welcome back everybody to another episode of the TheBrotalksPodcast! In today's podcast, the boys dive into their weeks; Jordan Is rounding out his semester with school, and has his hoe days come to end? The main discussion is about Crypto Currency and how it works, is handled, and many other cool insights Jake forwarns us about! They also round out the episode with some sports talk! As always we hope you enjoyed the episode and be sure to like and subscribe @thebrotalkspodcast!

We're back! I used to have a teacher who would, during exams, say, "a stroke of genius scheduled for 5 minutes after the exam." I found it incredibly annoying but sometimes it does happen. Anyway, if you didn't know the LA Lakers are the 2020 NBA champions and LeBron James got his fourth ring. So the question is who's the GOAT? James or MJ? What about James' legacy? Wait what? Yes, watching ESPN or FS1 that's all you hear. Yelling about how good James is or isn't. Day in, day out. Is he better than Jordan? Is he washed? Why all this discussion at high decibels? That's all for this week! Thanks for listening. Peace.

Diana Espir (host of You Can't Sit with Me) joins #NoFilter with Zack Peter to dissect Season 4 of Summer House and Season 8 of Vanderpump Rules.  We gab about:  Kyle and Amanda: Will they make it down the aisle?  Hannah and Luke: Are they or aren't they?  Jordan: Is he gay?  Paige and Amanda vs. Hannah  Which Pump Rules OGs and Newbies need to go...  Stassi and Katie vs. Kristen Feud  Lisa Vanderpump's additional camera-time on the show  The messy Pump Rules editor that got FIRED  Keep up with Diana at @dianaespir and catch See You Next Tuesday on all major podcast platforms.  Order some hangover-free wine now at www.DryFarmWines.com/zack Like the show? Subscribe at: https://apple.co/2DxTKe6 and listen every Wednesday. Don’t forget to leave us a nice review, because you love us! Keep up the latest show happenings at @nofilterwithzack Couldn't get enough of us? Follow Zack @justplainzack on Twitter and Instagram & justplainzack.com  Keep up with Zack on YouTube at www.youtube.com/justplainzack 

Dan Bernstein, Host of “The Dan Bernstein Show” on 670 The Score in Chicago, joins the show to talk about “The Last Dance”, and covering Michael Jordan’s career in the 90’s. What does he remember most from covering Jordan? Is there something that he wanted them to go into further detail on in the doc? What did the media think really happened during MJ’s “Flu Game”? Is there anyone who he thinks was done a disservice in this docuseries? Does he think baseball will be back this season?  

This week, Taylor Gibb from the customer success team at Braze brought in Senior CSM, Jordan Houghton, to discuss how she met her husband on OKCupid. Match Group finally acquires Hinge, adding to it's caché of dating apps, and don't forget about Bounce (the dating app on which you can do nothing EXCEPT meet for a date that very evening).     TRANSCRIPT: [0:00:02] PJ Bruno: On this Valentine's Day, me and the team would like to say, whether you're swiping for fun or looking for that special one, whether you're cuffing at home, or just love being alone, if you're going to give a gift, make sure it's relevant, personalized, and well timed. That apple of your eye wants nothing that isn't personal, and poorly timed, well, that's a crime. So, this year, kiddies, avoid the mess of a shameful Valentine's tragedy. Keep it personal, and treat your valentine like your customer engagement strategy.   [0:00:36] The Captain: This is the captain. Brace for impact.   [0:00:45] PJ Bruno: Hi again. Welcome back to Braze for Impact, your weekly tech industry discuss digest, and I'm so thrilled today to have back again by population demand Taylor Gibb from CS. How you doing, Taylor?   [0:00:58] Taylor Gibb: I am excited to be here. This is a big one.   [0:01:01] PJ Bruno: It is.   [0:01:02] Taylor Gibb: This is an inaugural run of me on this podcast on Valentine's Day in 2019.   [0:01:08] PJ Bruno: It is, and you brought a buddy with you, I see. You have a friend.   [0:01:10] Taylor Gibb: I definitely did. We roll deep in succeed, I like to say, so I brought one of the very best, and I'm apparently rhyming.   [0:01:15] Jordan: No. This is Jordan.   [0:01:18] Taylor Gibb: Jordan, guys, it is so good to have you here, and I really wanted to lean into our Valentine's Day festive podcast here.   [0:01:26] PJ Bruno: Ooh, I'm intrigued.   [0:01:26] Taylor Gibb: I brought a little theme in to guide today, because you know we're all thinking about love. A lot of us in New York City are kind of looking for that special date tonight, a lot of restaurant reservations out there-   [0:01:36] PJ Bruno: Don't you know it?   [0:01:36] Taylor Gibb: ... So I wanted to kind of focus in on dating apps today, and Jordan, I brought you in not just because you've got a silky smooth voice-   [0:01:45] Jordan: Oh, thank you very much.   [0:01:47] Taylor Gibb: Yeah, absolutely, but because I know that you actually... You've got a particular stance on dating apps, or at least the way that they were a couple of years ago. Do you care to elaborate there?   [0:01:56] PJ Bruno: Interesting.   [0:01:56] Jordan: I am a success story of dating apps. I met my husband on OkCupid.   [0:02:01] PJ Bruno: How about that?   [0:02:02] Taylor Gibb: That's right. Yeah. I brought in one of the very best. Jordan, tell me about your OkCupid experience there.   [0:02:09] Jordan: Okay. So, this was a few years ago. I had absolutely no intention of meeting anybody online. I just wanted to make a profile, maybe have some people reach out, make me feel a little bit better about myself, never thought I'd actually go out in person, and met some really great people, and met my husband.   [0:02:27] Taylor Gibb: That is a huge success story, and I always used to think that was rare, that you were more likely to run into a dud than you were the one, but these success stories are getting more and more prevalent. I think I saw a statistic that it's expected something wild, like 71% of couples in the year 2025 will have met online.   [0:02:45] PJ Bruno: What?   [0:02:45] Taylor Gibb: I saw that, and I thought that was just absolutely crazy because it seems like maybe five years ago that the idea of dating online was this kind of... I don't know.   [0:02:54] Jordan: No. I made the mistake of telling my mom, as I was walking to my first online date, that I actually had made a profile on OkCupid, and I was going to meet somebody, and I'm from Kansas originally, and she was literally screaming into the phone, begging me to either go to a public place, or turn around and walk home, because you don't know who you're going to meet, and they could very much be an ax murderer.   [0:03:14] PJ Bruno: So, the advice there is don't always listen to Mom?   [0:03:17] Taylor Gibb: If we wanted to tell you one thing here in this podcast, it's don't listen to your mom.   [0:03:22] PJ Bruno: It could cost you the love of your life.   [0:03:23] Taylor Gibb: Come on.   [0:03:24] PJ Bruno: So, wait. Was this the mobile app, or this is the-   [0:03:26] Jordan: This was the mobile app.   [0:03:27] PJ Bruno: Okay, cool.   [0:03:28] Jordan: I got really addicted to swiping.   [0:03:29] Taylor Gibb: An early adopter.   [0:03:30] Jordan: Yes.   [0:03:30] PJ Bruno: Early, early adoption.   [0:03:31] Jordan: Yes.   [0:03:32] Taylor Gibb: I love that.   [0:03:33] Jordan: I was very much into it.   [0:03:34] Taylor Gibb: You know, we're going to dig into a little bit more on kind of the dating apps, the pros and cons, ways they're changing here later, but I would be remiss if I didn't have a mini intro for you, PJ-   [0:03:44] PJ Bruno: Oh, really?   [0:03:44] Taylor Gibb: ... Because I know, and without going too far into detail, I know that you've used your share of dating apps, maybe a bit of a connoisseur.   [0:03:51] PJ Bruno: Oh, wow.   [0:03:52] Jordan: A connoisseur of dating apps.   [0:03:52] PJ Bruno: Where are you getting your information?   [0:03:54] Taylor Gibb: I don't know.   [0:03:55] PJ Bruno: You been through my phone?   [0:03:57] Taylor Gibb: I've been swiping through your phone when I was testing earlier.   [0:03:59] PJ Bruno: You know, I like to do research, so I like to... I have Hinge on my phone. I think that's pretty neat. We're going to touch on Hinge soon. I've tried Tinder, I've tried Bumble, and there's something to be said for it. I think I can argue for both sides. There's something very cool, especially in a city like New York, the ability to connect with random people that, honestly, I have a handful of people that are still friends to this day that I met on dating apps, so that's a cool thing, but then, of course, other side of the coin, you start to not appreciate people as much. They're just so easily dismissible, and you just don't really put the time that's required to build something that matter and lasts.   [0:04:37] Jordan: Oh, tell me-   [0:04:37] Taylor Gibb: We kind of forget that they're human beings because they're just a sound bite, maybe a picture, and one thing about them that may or may not have caught your eye, and you forget that, hopefully, they're a fully fleshed human being on the other side that might be waiting for your text, or might but hoping that you swipe right on them. I think it's really easy to have choice paralysis when there's an endless array of options.   [0:04:57] PJ Bruno: Totally. Well, that leads really nicely into our first little article here, which may be the solution to that swipe paralysis, or whatever you want to call it, people not willing to jump in and get stuck in and meet someone in person. We're really thrilled, actually, to be able to plug a good friend of ours. A previous coworker from Braze, Dylan Petro, was able to launch his dating app, Bounce, and all you can do on the app is date. Right? There no chatting?   [0:05:26] Taylor Gibb: Oh, yeah.   [0:05:27] PJ Bruno: It's just literally you connect, and that night, the date, it's on. They pick a spot. Is that right?   [0:05:31] Taylor Gibb: Oh, yeah.   [0:05:31] Jordan: They do.   [0:05:31] Taylor Gibb: That's right, and I have to say, I actually was one of the first users of this app. I remember Dylan gave a special code to a beta group of testers, and there's something really exciting about it. Right? You get a notification on your phone... First of all, love notifications here at Braze, so having get ready to go on a date, that's amazing to get delivered to your lock screen.   [0:05:53] Jordan: It also makes sense, though, because it is so time-sensitive, it's not just so-and-so likes you, or you have 35 swipe right people, but it's like, you have a date in 25 minutes, or two hours from now, so it's very time-sensitive, so that's the right channel, in my opinion. An email could get lost in your inbox.   [0:06:09] Taylor Gibb: Absolutely, and it's funny, too. This article that we brought up here says that this is the perfect dating app for Millennials who have this kind of analysis paralysis. It even said anything that I'm unfortunately very familiar with. It's like swiping through Netflix, and you've got so many options that you just end up looking at the options for an hour and going to bed.   [0:06:27] PJ Bruno: Yep, yep.   [0:06:28] Taylor Gibb: This is exactly what I do every time, and so when it comes to dating, absolutely, I'm going to keep swiping.   [0:06:33] PJ Bruno: That's the thing. It's like, because, I don't know, you always go back to the well, and I'm a big Netflix browser, and some people are just like, “Oh, my God. Pick something,” but I enjoy going through all the stuff and just keep scrolling and scrolling, and so sometimes I get into that mode with swiping. It becomes-   [0:06:51] Jordan: Definitely.   [0:06:51] PJ Bruno: I mean, they've gamified it. Right?   [0:06:53] Taylor Gibb: Oh, yeah.   [0:06:53] PJ Bruno: So, it's like you're talking to someone, and I don't know, there's always that incentive get back in and continue to swipe.   [0:06:59] Jordan: My girlfriends, they have a rule that if you've been texting for more than three days and they haven't mentioned a date, to cut it out right then-   [0:07:05] PJ Bruno: That's a pretty good rule.   [0:07:05] Jordan: ... Because they're not necessarily interested in dating, so Bounce is so interesting because it's forcing you to say, “I actually want to meet someone tonight. My makeup's already on. I got my shoes on. Let's go. Let's not just go back and forth and then just flow into the ether of ghosting.”   [0:07:18] PJ Bruno: Right. Right.   [0:07:18] Taylor Gibb: Definitely, and I know that PJ hates when he puts on his makeup, expecting to go out on a day. He's got it all, and then they ghost him.   [0:07:25] Jordan: He's got the shoes on, he's got the mascara ready to go.   [0:07:26] Taylor Gibb: God, and he just looks so good, so fly.   [0:07:28] PJ Bruno: When you put that much time into it, of course you're going to be upset when nothing comes to fruition.   [0:07:31] Taylor Gibb: Absolutely.   [0:07:32] Jordan: Lord knows, you're not going to meet someone in real life, so why would you actually go out unless you've got a date already planned?   [0:07:37] PJ Bruno: Exactly. That's silly.   [0:07:38] Taylor Gibb: So, here's the devil's advocate thing, though. I find that some of my friends who are maybe a little more shy, a little more reserved, really like to put in that emotional groundwork before they meet somebody. Love the idea of being on Hinge and being able to message for weeks. It's kind of a... You've got your Jane Austen pen pal romance a little bit.   [0:07:54] PJ Bruno: Yeah, it's a vetting process.   [0:07:55] Taylor Gibb: There's something to be said, right?   [0:07:56] PJ Bruno: There is.   [0:07:56] Taylor Gibb: Because it may be that for a certain kind of person, well, maybe for anybody, it's scary to meet somebody that night not knowing much about them. Right?   [0:08:03] PJ Bruno: Absolutely, and I'll say about Hinge, actually, out of all the apps that I've used, Hinge is pretty good about giving you more than just, okay, this is what a person looks like. They have those little prompts. Have you seen these texts? It's just like-   [0:08:14] Taylor Gibb: Oh, yeah. Oh, I love those little prompts.   [0:08:16] PJ Bruno: It's thing like, “Something I'll never do again is,” or, “One thing I'm weirdly attracted to is,” and it just is three prompts that you can pick what they are, and it just tells you a little bit about themselves, and if it's funny or quirky and weird, it's just kind of like, oh, okay, I can get down with this. So, it's kind of like-   [0:08:31] Jordan: That's why I loved OkCupid. The concept of just meeting someone because they're within a hundred feet of me and good looking freaked me out. So, I think I answered, I'm not kidding, maybe 300 or 400 questions. It was like an SAT that I filled out to potentially meet the love of my life, and it was actually really interesting, some of the questions that I differed with people. Yeah, it was really interesting to me because I'm similarly of the mind of you, Taylor, that I don't necessarily want to meet a stranger unless I'm literally in the same place as them. The idea of leaving my house and meeting a complete stranger would've freaked me out a little bit, so I think having both sides of it, either I know what you look like, I know what you think like, I know what you believe, I know what we're doing, we're both interested in sushi. Cool. Okay.   [0:09:15] PJ Bruno: One thing I'll say for the audience out there is even if you're using dating apps, and you're not quite finding that special one, you're losing if you're not learning, so at least take stuff away from it. For example-   [0:09:25] Taylor Gibb: You're losing if you're not learning. I like that.   [0:09:27] PJ Bruno: ... Two things I found, just call it research, one is that apparently I look different in every picture I own.   [0:09:34] Taylor Gibb: Great.   [0:09:34] PJ Bruno: So, apparently I look different in every photo, one, and two, girls who own cats are less likely to own guns than girls who have dogs.   [0:09:43] Taylor Gibb: That's interesting because you would think it's a little utilitarian.   [0:09:44] PJ Bruno: I'm a dog-   [0:09:45] Jordan: Have you met a lot of gun-wielding dog owners in New York?   [0:09:48] PJ Bruno: Actually, I don't run into them personally. I'm just telling you from the series of photos I see-   [0:09:52] Jordan: Oh, interesting.   [0:09:53] PJ Bruno: ... There's cat girls, and I'm like, “Cool. I like you. I'm allergic to cats, though, so sorry,” and then girls... Not all dog girls have guns, but there are way more dog girls that have guns than cat girls.   [0:10:03] Jordan: I will tell you a learning that I... I have two learnings. One, if you are taking a mirror selfie in a restroom, I'm probably not going to swipe right on you.   [0:10:12] PJ Bruno: Well, you're married, but...   [0:10:14] Jordan: Thank you very much. Tristan, I am not swiping.   [0:10:16] Taylor Gibb: She might be researching, PJ.   [0:10:17] PJ Bruno: Oh, you're doing research. That's right.   [0:10:18] Jordan: Absolute research. But no, I also realized there's a game of which person are you in this picture that I love to play, where it's like you see a group, and you're like, oh, I really hope you're the second from the right, and then there's that two second of anticipation of swiping to the next picture and being like, oh, no, you are the guy on the left, or you're the one in the back that's just at the very end of the photo. It's such a fun game because it's so exhilarating.   [0:10:45] Taylor Gibb: He's the guy photo bombing in the background.   [0:10:46] Jordan: Yes. Yeah. No, it's my favorite part. Who are you? Which on are you?   [0:10:50] Taylor Gibb: Who are you?   [0:10:51] PJ Bruno: Oh, my gosh.   [0:10:52] Taylor Gibb: Speaking of who are you, one thing I forgot to ask that I loved to hear is, I believe back in the day of OkCupid, maybe still, you would have a screen name that you'd have to put out there. Right?   [0:11:02] Jordan: Oh, gosh. Yes.   [0:11:02] Taylor Gibb: I want to hear about your screen name, Jordan. I almost forgot to ask.   [0:11:06] Jordan: Oh, my gosh. I'm going to be giving you all my secrets now.   [0:11:09] Taylor Gibb: That's what this is about.   [0:11:09] Jordan: So, my screen name, true story, I made a profile and a password, so I made a username and a password, and it sat for six months because I was too mortified, this was five, six years ago, to actually add pictures and meet someone online. My username is [Rockjock3213].   [0:11:28] Taylor Gibb: [Rockjock], like rock climbing?   [0:11:29] Jordan: Some people would reach out about that.   [0:11:31] PJ Bruno: I thought it was like rock show.   [0:11:32] Jordan: So, mine's Rockjock, [J-hock 00:11:34]. It's a KU slang. I'm from Kansas, so it was important to me that I mentioned the fact that I love Kansas, I love sports, and 3213 are two of my lucky numbers.   [0:11:43] PJ Bruno: So, say it again, one more time.   [0:11:44] Jordan: Oh, gosh.   [0:11:45] Taylor Gibb: We'd love to look this up. Everybody on the air, take notes.   [0:11:48] Jordan: Rockjock3213.   [0:11:51] PJ Bruno: Sounds like a total babe. I mean-   [0:11:52] Taylor Gibb: I love it, Rockjock. Slide into those DMs.   [0:11:54] Jordan: You know, PJ, any other time, if it hadn't been Tristan, you never know.   [0:11:57] Taylor Gibb: Just waited a few more years.   [0:12:00] Jordan: If you had done OkCupid, because Tinder and Hinge, all that scared me at the time, I wasn't quite ready to delve out of the question, question, question realm.   [0:12:07] PJ Bruno: Fair.   [0:12:08] Taylor Gibb: Well, that's a good transition, too. Right?   [0:12:09] PJ Bruno: Wow. I missed the boat again, it seems.   [0:12:11] Taylor Gibb: Well, as always, [Peej], you're one canoe behind, one safety boat behind, but I was going to say, I had a great segue before you so rudely coming off. I was going to say, speaking of Hinge, Tinder, Match.com groups, we do have another little article here that speaks to a somewhere dystopian future of dating, our overlords at Match.com, and good thing or a bad thing, essential, the article says, “Match Group, which operates dating apps like Tinder and OkCupid, completed its acquisition of the seven-year-old app Hinge on Thursday, following its purchase of a majority stake in June 2018.” So, we've got a bit of a monopoly of love on our hands here, which sounds like it would but a great slow jam, but is instead a monopoly of love. PJ, get on writing that.   [0:13:04] PJ Bruno: I'm going to do that.   [0:13:05] Taylor Gibb: Instead, means that there's one company that's kind of determining at least my friend group's dating lives in 2019. What is your take on it, fellow pundits?   [0:13:17] PJ Bruno: I mean, I think I speak for everyone in the room. Monopolies in general are a bad idea. Right?   [0:13:21] Taylor Gibb: You always end up throwing the board. I mean-   [0:13:23] PJ Bruno: You end up in jail.   [0:13:25] Taylor Gibb: ... I was bound to.   [0:13:25] PJ Bruno: I don't have a get out free card. Who knows? No. Yeah, I don't like this one bit, and I'm a big fan of Bumble and the whole female-centric thing that... Was it Whitney Wolfe Herd, I think the CEO [crosstalk]   [0:13:38] Taylor Gibb: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yep, exactly.   [0:13:40] Jordan: Previously of Tinder.   [0:13:40] PJ Bruno: Exactly. I love everything that she's done with Bumble, and they're staying strong, and they've staved off acquisition from Match Group. No, I don't like big, huge companies just absorbing and acquiring all this stuff, especially the Match CEO I guess was quoted saying, “Every person who's 18, 19, 20 should be on Tinder. We really want to be integrated into people's single social life, especially when they're young,” put the hooks in. Just because, while I said, dating apps can bring you towards a lot of really cool people, and who knows, maybe even the love of your life. I can also make you kind of be detached from society in a certain kind of way. Right? You're looking at your screen all the time. You're easily casting away person, after person, after person. I don't know. That's the thing, is I don't know if it's super good for our psyche, as far as the way that we treat people in general, and I don't know that's an outlandish thing to say.   [0:14:33] Jordan: I agree with that in the sense that one thing about choice analysis paralysis is the always consideration of what you didn't choose, so analysis paralysis being the more options you have, the more terrible your choice could be. If you had five versus 20, you could choose a statistically worse option if you had more than 20, things like that, but also, you're going to spend a lot of time thinking about the other 19 options that you didn't choose, which is very similar to dating apps.   [0:15:03] PJ Bruno: Totally.   [0:15:03] Jordan: I think that this concept that there's always the next person, which is also with these dating apps, their lifecycle, if they do their job, they're losing their audience. It's kind of like a babysitting app.   [0:15:16] PJ Bruno: Exactly.   [0:15:16] Jordan: If you get the nanny you're looking for, or the before, or the girlfriend, or the partner you've been looking for, you deactivate your profile, you're done with that. The cost of acquisition just got higher. So, for them, they either need to, as you mentioned, hook me back in by always having that in the back of my mind, that there's more option and I should go back and swipe, and I miss the gamification, or they have to buy every other part of their audience, which means this massive acquisition and having this monopoly.   [0:15:43] PJ Bruno: I see. That makes sense.   [0:15:43] Taylor Gibb: That's brilliant.   [0:15:44] Jordan: So, no, it's not ideal. I think that it's changing... It's not just my thought. It's scientifically proven that it's changing the way people date, the way people interact, and I don't necessarily think it's for the best, but I think it's part of the nature of the game that everything is digital, and we want things in the palm of our hand, literally, and we don't necessarily want to have to go out. We're paying for convenience.   [0:16:06] Taylor Gibb: That's interesting, and that's a really... It's a good take I think that a lot of people share. I will say, it's also interesting to think about being one of these companies. Right? If your goal at the end of the day is technically to match people up with their perfect other person, but then that means they're off the app. Right?   [0:16:26] PJ Bruno: Right.   [0:16:26] Taylor Gibb: So, I've posed this to clients before. I work with a few dating apps here at Braze, and I remember going in and saying, “Devil's advocate, if your app works perfectly, you're out of users. You don't have anybody in there. What does that make you feel like?”   [0:16:42] PJ Bruno: Right. It's a catch-22.   [0:16:42] Taylor Gibb: They said, “Honestly, we want as many marriages, as many people dropping off at the end of this as we possibly can do. When we look through the section of The New York Times, we want to see, 'We met on blank dating app. We met on this dating app,' and that's going to mean that we're really successful.” Now, of course, that's me going in in the moment as an outsider. It could be that there are other things that come from that, but-   [0:17:05] Jordan: It's de-stigmatizing it.   [0:17:07] Taylor Gibb: Absolutely.   [0:17:07] Jordan: The more that you see it's prevalence, that's great. I mean, I'm just going to throw this out there. I would love an app to make friends, because I think it's so easy to meet people with the instance of dating and love, and I think building community, if it's not at your office, or it's not in a friend group that you had from college, or it's not something that's based off of your personal belief system, it's really hard to make friends, and I think that's something that would benefit everybody. I know that Bumble tried to do that, I think, with business.   [0:17:34] Taylor Gibb: Bumble BFF.   [0:17:34] PJ Bruno: That's right, yeah.   [0:17:35] Taylor Gibb: Yeah.   [0:17:35] Jordan: Oh, yeah. They did it for business, too. I don't know how... I say this, but also, I met my person online, so I can't give them too much crap because I maybe wouldn't have met him otherwise. We both lived in the same city for six years and had mutual-mutual friends, never met, so I'm very grateful they were able to find the needle in the haystack was looking for.   [0:17:55] Taylor Gibb: Most definitely, and there's an app for everything. You've got your Bumble BFF. You've got your Bumble for business. I just heard today about a new app called [Tudder], which is Tinder for cows, and if you're looking to breed your cow-   [0:18:08] PJ Bruno: [Exsqueeze] me?   [0:18:08] Taylor Gibb: ... You get online, and you find a... On Tudder, you can swipe, say, "This looks like the steer for my particular cow."   [0:18:16] PJ Bruno: But how do cows even use apps?   [0:18:20] Jordan: Is it the farmer looking for the best lady cow?   [0:18:23] Taylor Gibb: I like to think it is just a cow that's swiping over there. He's got his big hoof, and he's like, “Oh, no, no. This will never do.” [crosstalk]   [0:18:29] PJ Bruno: What are the pictures of? It's just-   [0:18:31] Taylor Gibb: They're of the cows. It's absolutely 100% Tinder, just with cows.   [0:18:35] PJ Bruno: Is it like a group of cows, and you have to guess which cow is the one?   [0:18:40] Taylor Gibb: Yep, and it's always the shortest cow, isn't it?   [0:18:41] PJ Bruno: Exactly.   [0:18:42] Taylor Gibb: Always the shortest cow.   [0:18:43] PJ Bruno: It's always-   [0:18:43] Jordan: Taylor, how did you find this? Did you product hunt this, or is this from experience [crosstalk]   [0:18:49] PJ Bruno: This is a good question.   [0:18:49] Taylor Gibb: Yeah. You know, we're actually trying to get them in as a client for next year, so thanks so much.   [0:18:53] PJ Bruno: Tudder.   [0:18:54] Taylor Gibb: I've just been doing Tudder.   [0:18:55] PJ Bruno: We got our eye on you.   [0:18:56] Taylor Gibb: Look out. We're going to be sending notifications. Is your cow lonely?   [0:19:00] PJ Bruno: You know, just real briefly, I want to come back... I love that whole idea because Hinge says designed to be deleted. Right?   [0:19:07] Taylor Gibb: Yes.   [0:19:07] PJ Bruno: That's their tagline.   [0:19:09] Taylor Gibb: That's it.   [0:19:09] PJ Bruno: I love that that's their mission and standpoint, is to get everyone to get off of it. I don't really buy it, especially now that they're acquired by Match Group, which is this big, huge, monster Frankenstein company, so I just... My question is, how do you build customer loyalty? Right? It's by building brilliant experiences. Right? So, what does loyalty look like in this industry? How is loyalty fostered in an app like this?   [0:19:38] Taylor Gibb: Oh, definitely, and it's funny too because we've got these preferences, but more and more, it's preferences within this Match monopoly. Right? I like OkCupid. I like Hinge. Match says, “That's great. It's all under us. Come on in.” Yeah, fostering loyalty, and then also, there is somewhat distressingly now this price put on things like a super like, or a boost. It's like, not only do I like you, Jordan, but I'm willing to pay an extra $2.00 to show you how much I like you.   [0:20:06] Jordan: Listen, that was before my time. That didn't exist back in the day.   [0:20:12] Taylor Gibb: Do you think Tristan would've dropped a couple of bucks to say hi to you?   [0:20:14] PJ Bruno: $2.00?   [0:20:14] Taylor Gibb: $2.00?   [0:20:14] Jordan: I think he did pay to be anonymous, so you couldn't see how often he looked at someone's profile. I didn't know that existed, so there might be some people out there that knew I was heavily stalking them.   [0:20:25] Taylor Gibb: They're like, “Rockjock?”   [0:20:27] Jordan: Oh, my gosh.   [0:20:27] Taylor Gibb: Didn't you view my profile 20 times?   [0:20:27] Jordan: Okay. This is getting too real. No, but to answer your question, PJ, this is something I actually thought a lot about. As a customer success team, we were doing some workshops, just trying to think about the user lifecycle across different verticals, and we were doing data apps at one point, and this is something that I think is so critical to think of as a marketer, but also as a person, is that it can be an exhilarating experience. I got in at a really good time, I found my person, I got out. It was great. It can be an incredibly lonely experience, especially if you're somebody who is putting yourself out there and being vulnerable, and maybe not getting the number of people interested in you that you'd hoped for, or the quality of people that you'd hoped for. I think that it's imperative that these companies remember that their relationship is with the person using their app, in that when you're the person that's bestowing all these amazing compliments, you can also be incredibly silent unintentionally, and so something that I like to think about is today is Valentine's Day. This can be a really tough day for some people, so use what you have. You have the ability to talk to them. Talk to them and remind them how many people swiped on them in the last year, how many people liked their photo, or how many people did they end up getting to see to build their community, things that you're in control of that aren't necessarily how hot did people think you are, or how many people wanted to go on a date that you said no to, weirdly, vanity metrics. Use what you have at your disposal-   [0:21:53] PJ Bruno: Totally.   [0:21:53] Taylor Gibb: Literally.   [0:21:53] Jordan: ... And truly build a relationship that you can, which can be either the comforter or the cheerleader, or both.   [0:22:00] PJ Bruno: So, so well said, Jordan. I love that message to everyone out there. You know, we're in the world of automation, and it's going to make our lives continually easier and easier, but let's not forget, along the way somewhere, we can lose something as well. So, on Valentine's Day, reach out to those loved ones, even if it's over the phone. Try to-   [0:22:19] Taylor Gibb: Even if it's in a push notification.   [0:22:20] PJ Bruno: Even if it's in a push notification that's triggered in realtime or near realtime. Who's to say?   [0:22:25] Jordan: Be good to yourself, too. I think it's a love day. Love can be everything, but love should also point right back at you.   [0:22:32] Taylor Gibb: Well, I can't-   [0:22:33] Jordan: Getting sentimental there.   [0:22:34] Taylor Gibb: That's good. It's Valentine's Day. It's the day to be sappy, and quite honestly, we can end it on that note.   [0:22:41] PJ Bruno: I'd love to end it on that note. This has been beautiful, you guys. Happy Valentine's Day to you both-   [0:22:46] Taylor Gibb: [crosstalk] Happy Valentine's Day.   [0:22:49] PJ Bruno: ... And happy Valentine's Day to all you out there.   [0:22:50] Taylor Gibb: All you listeners out there.   [0:22:52] PJ Bruno: This is PJ Bruno-   [0:22:53] Taylor Gibb: Taylor Gibb.   [0:22:54] Jordan: And I'm Jordan.   [0:22:56] PJ Bruno: Thanks a lot for coming with us, guys, and take care. [0:22:58]

Yes, the Jordan vs LeBron debate has been done to death, but it's been done poorly. Fans have been subjected to attempts to "win" the conversation for their side, without legitimate points being exchanged. This all changed when Mike Fry wrote his book, "G.O.A.T. Envy", in an attempt to bring facts and remove the myths. Has LeBron surpassed Jordan? Is he really a more complete player? How important are championships in this topic? All of these questions, and so many more, are covered in this weeks episode. Enjoy! Mike's book can be purchased via his website: www.goatenvybook.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/goat_envy/  

Staying relevant. Embracing technology to increase efficiency. Investing the time it takes to improve. Attorney and cultural ambassador at his firm in Tacoma, Washington, Jordan Couch connects with with Mark and offers his perspective on what a law firm can become simply by looking at everything a bit differently. ALPS In Brief, The ALPS Risk Management Podcast, is hosted by ALPS Risk Manager, Mark Bassingthwaighte. Transcript: MARK: Hello, welcome to another episode of ALPS in Brief, the ALPS risk management podcast. We're coming to you from the ALPS home office in the historic Florence building in beautiful downtown Missoula, Montana. I'm Mark Bassingthwaighte, the ALPS risk manager. I have the pleasure today of sitting down with Jordan Couch. Jordan is an attorney and cultural ambassador at Palace Law. He has done some writing on redefining lawyers and we're just going to have a conversation today about relevancy. Jordan, before we jump into our conversation, would you take a few minutes and just share a little bit about yourself and can you kind of fill us in on what's this cultural ambassador all about? JORDAN: Yeah, so I actually grew up out in eastern Montana, so part of me wishes I was in Missoula right now. But I am a plaintiffs workers compensation personal injury attorney out in Tacoma, Washington these days. In my office I carry a few roles, but the main one is I'm an attorney. And then in addition to that, I am the cultural ambassador of the firm. What that comes from is a couple years ago, the management team sat down at the firm and decided we needed to lay out what our mission is, what our values are, who we really are as a firm and we need to define that. Our mission is to help the injured and every community and we have a list of seven core values that we think help us do that. My job is to make sure that we are living up to that as a firm and that we are promoting ourselves based on that, and kind of conversing about that. Because it's one thing to define your values and your mission, it's another to live them. And so, my job comes from everything from talking about it to others, to making sure that when we hire people on, they're people that share our values and are going to stay with us because they believe in those values. And also, encouraging conversation right and in the office. We have monthly values that we kind of focus on. We talk about them and share stories about them. And then I'm also around encouraging people whenever they want to try something new in the office or pitch a case to take, or new idea for the office. I tell them make sure you put it in terms of these values and sell that to the team and talk about it that way and have it be a part of our everyday life, instead of something that we define and set aside. That's that job. MARK: Yeah, no, I really like that. It's a tangent here for a moment, but you find businesses of all types, to include law firms. But just sitting down and talking about mission statements and all these kinds of things. It's one thing to kind of do the preliminary work of defining who you want to be, and it's another thing to walk the walk consistently, day after day, throughout the year, year after year. I love that. That's a great idea. JORDAN: Yeah, it's unique position and it's taken some trial and error, but we're making new efforts on it. We constantly try it and we have to find ways to encourage people to talk about it every day. So, we have big posters around the office too, the talk about the values and are posted up everywhere. So, you can't walk into the opposite of seeing them, and our clients see them the second they walk into our office too. MARK: Very good. One of my interests in again having this discussion, yeah, I do over the years, quite a bit of CLEs and a lot of consulting. But in a number of the CLE programs we do, and we tend to focus on risk management, malpractice of wings, ethics, that kind of thing. But in recent years, I've been setting up some high bows and just talking about changes in the law. I find it interesting when I talk about the rise of Avvo advisors and example, or Legal Zoom, you see so many lawyers really starting to get, I don't know if it's threatened or upset. To my surprise, one of the comments that keeps coming up over and over again these lawyers get up and they'll say, because we're on a panel typically with bar council or ethics council and this kind of thing, they'll start yelling at the bar, "It's your job to fix this. To do something. It's the unauthorized practice law go out and make these entities go away." And we all sit here kind of ... It's it's not the role of the bar to do that, obviously. But we sit here and say, "These guys just aren't getting it." Law is changing and evolving very, very rapidly. Now I'm not here to say that's a good or a bad thing. I have my opinions about it, but I sit and say these guys that had these kinds of opinions in from my perspective seem to just not understand. I understand that they're frightened by it, but they don't see how they fit in going forward. And so, the answer is to bury their head and trail others to try to make this go away. You and I both know that just isn't going to happen. So, sort of with that premise, you know, speaking to the solo small firm lawyers in particular, what thoughts do you have about how to stay relevant? What does it look like? You've been referred to as a lawyer futurist as well. Can you kind of start to navigate this direction for us? JORDAN: Yeah. So, there's a lot there to talk about. I always begin with telling lawyers that at the end of the day, right now we are bad at what we do. Because you ask lawyers, and I've done surveys, "What do you do?" And they say, "Oh, we're protectors and we're problem solvers and we're helpers." But over 75% of legal needs go unmet. Now not only is that kind of a shame and a stain on our profession, but at the same time, that's a huge market that is untapped. Those are people out there that have legal needs that want us to do the things that people pay us to do, and we're not doing it. And so, I think solo and small firms especially are in a good opportunity because they're flexible. That's part of why I like working in a smaller firm. We can go after that marketplace. And so, instead of seeing Avvo and legalism competitors, think of them as people with really good ideas we should steal from, and then go after that same market. Because at the end of the day, they're not going after the clients that we fight over. Most law firms fight over 10% of the clients. The rest of us fight over the other 15% of the clients, and then 75% is just out there waiting for someone. They're not people that can't afford an attorney. I do continuously work, everyone can afford me. But it's their legal needs, that just tend to go unmet. The first thing I always tell people is this is opportunity. The way you have to go about addressing this is instead of looking at people as competitors going against your business, redefine your business. Because if your business is writing stock, wills and trusts for people, your business will die and it will die soon. It's time you need to start inventing new ways to better serve clients. To not only go after that 75% of people that are not tapped into, but also to do your own work more efficiently and make more money of the work you're doing and have a better work, life balance and a better life. Solo and small firm attorneys are highly overworked and do a lot of administrative stuff that they're not trained to do that they don't enjoy doing, and there's a lot of opportunity there. One of my favorite examples is actually a friend of mine, Forest Carlson, who is a wills and trusts attorney. He looked at our legal zoom and looked at Avvo inside of this was competing against him by offering low cost services. So, he built his own website, washingtonwills.com or wa-wills.com, that allows people to create a will online, on their own, and it's completely free. So, he's undercutting legal zoom, he's undercutting Avvo and serving these people. But what happens when things get a little complex and they can't do it on their own? Is they get routed to him to hire an attorney, and they want his services. They've already got the basics of work done, so he gets to focus on the higher-level work. Or as I like to call it, practicing at the top of my degree. MARK: Interesting. So, he's using this tool then, as I understand it, as sort of a screening. It's going out and finding the clients for him, and at the same time providing a service. JORDAN: Absolutely. We have a similar thing on out office we've just launched, what we call the Patbot, because my boss's name is Patrick. It's a robot on the front page of our website. It's right next to a calculator that will tell you how much your case is worth for free. And then it's this robot that will look through your case and talk to you about it and tell you know where your case is, what steps you need to take, because it gives us more informed customers coming to us. Some people will look at that and say, Oh, I can do all of those things and they'll go and do it. And those are the clients we don't want in the first place. Because they'd be mad at the end and saying, "Well, you didn't do anything. Why am I paying you?" Right? MARK: Right. JORDAN: I could have done this on my own. Now they know exactly what we're going to do, and they know when it's done in their case. And if we can't offer value to them, they're not going to hire us. But if they look at that and say, "I want someone else to do this." Then they come to hire us in there. We get better clients and we get to focus on the more intricate interesting legal work. MARK: Helped me understand sort of the journey that you guys took. What I'm trying to understand is, what advice do you have if I'm sitting here saying, "Okay, I need to be something different. I'm stuck." In other words. What can you share from for folks just saying, "Okay, I kind of get the gist of it, but I have no clue how to move forward here." JORDAN: First thing is to just stop. You're going to have to stop and take time and kind of take a leap of faith in this system that mean something. Where our office began is my boss had been you know bar president for a while and he'd been speaking about these issues. I had been in law school with some really great mentors that had taught me about these issues in the legal profession, got me looking at this. He finished up his term and a little while later I came into the office and we had a lot of good innovative people in the office had supported this idea. We sat down, and it was just time to say, "Okay, what do we need to do differently? How can we do things differently?" We decided to take a step back from our work and actually invest time in what needs to be done now. It takes an initial investment and it takes looking out there and kind of asking yourself, "What am I doing that I don't like doing? What am I doing that I don't need to be doing? What are the things I like least in the day?" And we actually did surveys in our office asking the entire staff, "What don't you like about your job? What is your biggest hindrances?" Start by identifying those and as you start listing those out, ask yourself, "What do I have to keep doing then? Can I outsource this? Can I automate this?" And that's just the beginning of it, right? Of looking at just the things you don't like. And then there a lot of things that can be done about this. There are a lot of processes that can be learned on designed thinking, where you start focusing on what your clients need and try and get their perspective and getting them involved in the process. But it really begins with just sitting down and taking time to think and taking time to act creatively and practice creativity. There are a lot of books on how to kind of train yourself to be creative, and I taught a CLE where we talked about that a little bit. But they are little things. Like just practice coming up with crazy ideas, like what would be a really weird practice area? Like what if I wanted to be a food lawyer? Or what if I wanted to go out and invent you know the next Legal Zoom, right? Just come up with these crazy ideas. Or, have a robot that would answer all my clients/ questions, right? MARK: Right. JORDAN: Some of them will be impossible, but some of them will start to turn into really good ideas and can be developed. Don't be afraid to test things. I think one of the biggest hindrances that lawyers face is they're afraid of failure. At the end of the day, as long as you are afraid of failure, you will never innovate. Because you have to be open to it and recognize it. Because what happens if you're not open to failure is you don't catch on to it quickly enough, because you don't admit that you failed. Whereas in our office, our goal is to fail as fast as possible, right? So, if this isn't working, we want to identify it right away, so we can adjust and try something different. And we do that a lot. I'll give one example on that. We spent a lot of time trying to kind of get our clients to call us less, because that was a big hindrance. We noticed in our surveys, there's just lots of client calls coming in. We thought, "What if we made it easier for them to communicate with us?" So, we spent a lot of effort into systems that allowed them to have a portal to communicate with us. Email, phone calls, letters. We allowed them to text us and made it easier for that to happen. We did all this work, and calls didn't go down at all. Okay. What's wrong here? Soon we went back to our clients to kind of asked them as part of the design thinking process, like why are you calling so much? We started looking at and we realized what they're calling is they're afraid of things. They're on workers' compensation. They want to know when their check is coming in, and that's every two weeks. And so, they're calling every day. Check every two weeks, right? Is my check here, as my check here? And we thought, "Well, why don't we just tell them when it's here?" We took the tools we built in that whole project that was something of a failure, and kind of rehabbed them into a system. And now, our clients get automatic notifications of updates in their case. And those calls went down a lot quickly. MARK: Yeah. Interesting. What I hear is, we ... I really like this because we're talking about redesigning the entire delivery system as opposed to, can I get a new computer and some new software and try to be a little more efficient? That this is not throwing a little money and try and create, and there's nothing wrong with creating efficiencies, but what I'm hearing is we're really talking about total redesign and questioning, challenging our own assumptions about how law should be delivered how the legal services should be delivered. I really like that. Can I also have you comment a little bit, I noted in your article you were talking about, and you mentioned this earlier, this 25% is the traditional client base we are all competing over, and you have kind of looked at and talked about collaborative efforts here. Can you kind of explain where you're going with that? JORDAN: Yeah, there's a couple things to say on that. One is, you talked about kind of redesigning it. I like to talk about this concept called reframing, which is a new method of problem solving. Most lawyers, the older model was you have this problem, you apply this solution and it's the solution your dad applied when he was a lawyer, right? And it goes back and back. Now you've got the more innovative attorneys out there that are applying like what different solutions can I have to this problem? Reframing is about taking a step back further than that and saying, "Am I solving the right problem? If you look at in the legal new study in Washington, low income families had on average more than nine legal problems in a given year. Solving those problems doesn't solve anything. You have to step back and say. "What's really going on here?" And really investigate what's happening. It's hard to do that as an attorney. That's one way that collaboration really comes in and is important. You have to bring in outside people to work with things on you. In our office, we have a project manager whose job is just to find ways for us to do things better. She has legal experience and then she's been in our office for a while, but she has no legal training. She's not a paralegal, she is just someone who is in charge of projects. She runs a team that brings in stakeholders from around the office from different departments to try to find better ways to do things, because it's really hard as a lawyer to think of something new. We've gone to law school for three years, we've had internships, we've trained on this old model and to come up with new ideas is cognitively almost impossible in some ways. But if you have someone come in who has no training in this and says, "Wait, why are you doing this?" It gets a lot easier. And so, there's that collaboration. Collaborating with lawyers outside of your community, there is a growing movement of phenomenal attorneys all over this country and out of the country that are doing amazing things. Little things just in their office that can make a big impact if they become more broadly accepted. The nice thing about this is, they're not competitive people. I think those who in this community have realized that a rising tide raises all ships, right? We all work together on this. I've found, I've been traveling around the country a lot over the last year and meeting with people. Everyone I meet with has been phenomenal, and we work together on projects, and we find ways to make all of us have a better relationship with our clients, better services for our clients. We share ideas, we work together on things. In our office we've worked with outside partners too. We have I think five tech companies right now that we're collaborating with. And we're collaborating with Suffolk Laws IT Lab, because of a friend of mine there who's a professor there. So, lawyers don't have all the answers and it helps to have outside people come in. One of the more remarkable experiences I had that kind of led me down this path is about three years ago when I went to a legal hackathon that we did. It was amazing to see all these lawyers come here and present these problems that they saw is really complex problems and have the tech people in the coders that's there say, "Well, that's really easy. Why haven't you done that already?" MARK: I love it. I'm also, as you're aware, a risk guy and something of a tech. When you think about just your own experiences here, are there I guess some tech tools or risk advice that you might share for people thinking about moving in this kind of direction, so that they don't have to reinvent the wheel? JORDAN: Yeah. One thing I actually like to talk to people a lot in this kind of new future model of legal services is trying to commodities legal services. There's a good reason for that. If you look at the legal system, it's a very unique and bizarre market where everything is based on ours. And so, imagine if you went to Amazon and you bought a package and they charged you for how long would take them to mail the package to you, and you may or may not get that package. That's the legal system in a nutshell, and it's because lawyers don't know what their services are worth and that's a problem. And so, when I tell people to look at this, I tell them to try to find ways to commoditize, to really define and market. It's not they're hiring this attorney for their expertise, they're hiring this firm to provide the product that this firm provides. One thing that's really essential for that is having systems in place and definable measurable systems, so that every client comes in and gets service that will be on timelines, that will be on specific things. That's a huge bonus for risk management, because the biggest risk is human error in everything that you do. If you have, in our office with workers compensation, we have a lot of issues that have statute limitations and we might have 10, 20 things at a time on my table easily that have statute of limitations that I need to address, that could be harmful for my client if I don't That's a lot for a human being to manage. We used to have it documented written down multiple places and there was human checks and a lot of room for errors, and that's Bad. Because the more humans touching a system, the more room for error there is. So now, we created actually automated systems for all of that, for all of our kind of regulatory stuff, so that every time a letter comes in that we have to respond to within a certain timeline, it automatically creates tasks in our practice management system which is Cleo. It automatically creates cards on our workflow system which is Trello, which is kind of a visual workflow system. And, it automatically notifies us of all this and creates notifications with deadlines attached to them, so we can see the deadline coming up. This is all automated so that we don't have to worry about, oh, did this person into the wrong date here the wrong date here? Everything's done automatically. There are human checks on that because you don't want to get rid of humans entirely and just trust machines. But it's all automated for us and that allows us to provide a better, more safe system for our clients where they can know that we are on top of everything that comes through us. We do the same for just staying on top of cases. We have technology aided systems for our file review process to go over all of our cases, to make sure we're managing them on a regular timeline. The technology really helps with that. Again, started looking at what are the things we hated doing, and a lot of people said, "Well, all this manual you know, data entry. I really hate doing that."  Thought, but that's an easy thing to automate. I call it being you know tech enabled lawyer. MARK: Yeah. Sort of a final question from myself and I'll give you a second to have any closing thoughts, excuse me. There are a lot of lawyers out there that I have worked with it are what I would describe perhaps it's mid-career or a little bit further beyond, as opposed to the millennials just starting out in so many ways. When you think about all that you're talking about here, are these opportunities really limited to the millennial group? Or, if I'm in my 40s or 50s can I still do this if I'm somebody who's not highly trained with tech and comfortable? Do you have any thoughts about that? Because I do see at times when lawyers just say, "I don't understand any of this." JORDAN: It takes a little more work. Although I know millennials that are not good at this, but I think millennials are a little better poised for this growing up, kind of in this tech generation of being taught to kind of question some of these ways the legal profession has worked before. But my boss is in his 40s or 50s, I can't remember which for, and he does this. What it takes is not necessarily having all the skills to do it, but having the knowledge to say, "I need to do something differently. What can I do differently?" And then going out find people because at the end of the day, you don't have to be the expert on all these things. There are some who disagree with me on this, but I don't think every lawyer should learn how to code. I don't think lawyers need to have all these skills. They just need to have a baseline so that they can get into a situation and know who they need to talk to, and how to find the experts. So, we have a big data analytics project in our office that we've been working on for a while. It's been kind of a pipe dream of mine. I was lucky enough to make some friends at Suffolk who I of course couldn't do all the coding and build the algorithms for this, but they did, they could. They said, "Well, can we do this as part of our class? As part of our education for our students.?" And I was of course happy to say yes, you want to do my work for me? That's a pretty good deal. And we've kind of built in that partnership, just because they have the skills that I don't have. We have people in our office whose jobs is just working with tech and working with client relationships, things that are not legal, because those are the things we don't know. I'd say a simple analogy that I think attorneys will understand a little better is, how many of you run your own marketing campaigns versus hire someone to consult with you on marketing a little bit? Tech is no different. Or, how many of you have accountants that you go to, right? Tech is no different than that. It seems different because it's scary and it's new, and I understand that fear. But at the end of the day, if you can hire an accountant, you can hire a tech expert to come in and help you. If they can't demonstrate the value to you, then it's not the right expert. MARK: That's an important takeaway for me. Because I do think lots of lawyers that have not quite grown up in the way that my own [inaudible 00:23:22] and I'm in my late 50s now. In terms of our children's generation, computers are a very different thing. I do feel, lawyers, we are taught to problem solve and to be creative, some of us anyway. To have the ability to take the leap of faith, you don't have to be a computer whiz kid to do this stuff. It's about having the idea, that's what I'm hearing, and then finding the right people to help you make that idea a reality through testing and talking to your clients. But I like that, it's a hopeful thing to me. Do you have any final comments you'd like to share before we wrap up? JORDAN: I don't think I said it yet, but there's one other thing that I think is important to this as well. MARK: Yes, please. JORDAN: Is having a culture. Because sometimes I meet attorneys and one attorney will say, "Yeah, I really love this idea, but I don't know how to convince the other partners in my office." Or, "I don't think my staff would get on board with this." MARK: Real good point. JORDAN: I mentioned earlier, you have to demonstrate the value to people. If you can't go to them and say, "Here's the time you're saving. Here's the value you're getting out of this product, you're never going to get buy in." People always ask me like how do I convince people to do this. Don't convince anyone. Because if you're convincing, you're starting off on the wrong foot. Show them the value. Build a culture around this where people can communicate with each other and work together on things, so that you see the issues as they arise. And if you have to be convincing people rather than them coming it because they see the value of it, then it's not going to work. It takes buy in from team. One really helpful way to do that is go out to them and it really do, just ask them like, "What don't you like? What do you wish you didn't have to do every day? What do you wish was easier for you? How can I make that happen?" Because if you get that kind of buy in or people feel ownership of it, they really take to it and they really get excited about it. We have the first of our core values, although I wouldn't say that any is more important than others is being creative, innovative and adaptable. That's really important in client service. Because if you're going to be asked, "Why should this client hire you instead of the other 15 firms in there that do the exact same type of law?" I would like to tell my clients, "Everyone else cares, everyone else does these things, but I'm going to provide a team of creative, innovative adaptive people who are going to invent new ways to better serve you." MARK: Yeah, that's an important point. Thank you for sharing that. We are out of time. I would like to say thanks to Jordan. It really has been a pleasure. I've enjoyed our conversation today. To our listeners, I hope you found something of value out of the conversation. If in future any of you have any ideas for a topic or if you have questions or concerns you'd like to see addressed in one of these podcasts, please don't hesitate to reach out to me at mbass@alpsnet.com. Thanks for listening. Bye bye. JORDAN: Thanks so much. Jordan L. Couch is an attorney and cultural ambassador at Palace Law practicing plaintiff's workers' compensation and PI litigation. He's been called a legal futurist for the work he does both in and out of the office seeking out new ways to build a more modern, client-centric law practice. Contact him at jordan@palacelaw.com or on social media @jordanlcouch.

This episode is brought to you by The Kolada Group. Today, I’m going to answer the question: ‘What is business operations?’ Topics:  (:31) Intro (1:04) Systems Saved Me Summit (2:44) Definition (3:08) Saving time, making money (4:40) Front end vs. back end (5:16) Bringing someone in (5:54) Do less (6:30) Bringing costs down (9:00) Spending in the right areas (10:57) Set yourself up for success Quotes of the Week: “The biggest part of my job is subtraction... My job is to do less. Like legitimately take things off your plate, reduce expenses, reduce your time on x, y and z, reduce your energy over here...Reduce, reduce, reduce.”– Jordan “Is free costing you?” - Jordan Resources: Systems Saved Me Summit   See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.