Podcasts about Metropolitan Community Church

The Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco (MCC-SF) was one of the first gay-positive Christian churches. During the height of the AIDS crisis, it was a place where hundreds of LGBTQ Christians found community, sustenance, and healing as they grappled with the illness and death of the epidemic. When We All Get to Heaven, a 10-episode audio documentary series produced by Eureka Street Productions and distributed by Slate, follows queer Christians caught between two communities: a religious world that said gays had no place, and a gay rights movement that said God had no place. Links: Listen: When We All Get to Heaven Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Pride Month is a time to celebrate accomplishments of LGBTQ+ individuals, and commemorate the ongoing fight for the whole community to gain equality and justice. It's also a time to remember and honor those we've lost. That includes the millions of people that have died of AIDS-related illness.That's the aim of the Peabody award winning documentary project, ‘When We All Get To Heaven.' With archival tape it tells the story of one of the first gay-positive churches, the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco during the height of the AIDS crisis in the 80s and 90s. The 10 episode series brings to life a community facing personal, social, and political trials, including the deaths of hundreds of its members. It premiered in October 2025. And KALWs Crosscurrents host Hana Baba spoke with the host and co-creator of the series Lynne Gerber. 

On today's pledge drive edition of A Public Affair, host Dana Pellebon is in conversation with Rev. Staci Marrese-Wheeler and Rev. Tim Schaefer about the phenomena of white Christian nationalism and how their congregations are choosing to follow a table-flipping Jesus. Rev. Schaefer is part of a coalition of clergy in Wisconsin working against Christian nationalism. He says that this political ideology gets framed in theological terms by a small group of people who interpret scripture in a narrow way in order to uphold their power and control. Rooted in white supremacy, Christian nationalism threatens democratic norms and threatens churches because it doesn't allow for pluralism in either space, says Schaefer. Rev. Marrese-Wheeler says that this ideology is rooted in fear and a scarcity mindset, but she follows Christian teachings of abundance. She pastors a small, progressive congregation where people have been exposed to justice-framed understandings of the Gospel. “Patriarchy is baked into church DNA,” says Marrese-Wheeler, though there have been denominations that ordain female clergy. Schaefer says that he brings feminist, womanist, and queer theologies into his sermons, following the model of a social-justice, table-flipping Jesus.  “More and more, faithful people are being asked to create more power and more wealth for people who don't follow Jesus,” says Marrese-Wheeler. Instead, she looks to Christian traditions in Central America and Africa that preach community instead of individualism. Note: This pledge drive interview was edited to remove parts of the show dedicated to station fundraising. We thank our listeners for their generous support. Rev. Staci Marrese-Wheeler (She/Her) is Pastor at Common Grace. Staci is an ordained pastor of the Moravian Church of North America. Staci has an undergraduate degree in Education and a Masters of Divinity from Moravian Theological Seminary in Bethlehem, PA. She has served on the eastside of Madison for 17 of her 33 years in ministry. Staci’s role at Common Grace is  called “Community Development Pastor.” She also serves as Co-Director of the Eastmorland Community Center on the east side of Madison. Rev. Tim Schaefer has served as pastor of First Baptist Church since November 2020. Prior to relocating to Wisconsin, he served as Minister to Youth at Royal Lane Baptist Church in Dallas, TX, where he was ordained in early 2019. Tim holds a Bachelor of Arts degree in Political Science from Boston University and a Master of Divinity degree, as well as, a degree certificate in Gender and Sexual Justice from Brite Divinity School at Texas Christian University. In addition to his pastoral role, Tim co-founded and continues to co-lead the Wisconsin Coalition for Religious Freedom, a broad collective of Wisconsinites dedicated to disrupting the rise of white Christian nationalism in our state. Featured image: of Christian LGBTQ pride flag with cross hanging in a Metropolitan Community Church via Wikimedia Commons (CC BY-SA 2.0).  Did you enjoy this story? Your funding makes great, local journalism like this possible. Donate hereThe post Following a Social-Justice, Table-Flipping Jesus appeared first on WORT-FM 89.9.

Now on that same day two of them were going to a village called Emmaus, about seven miles from Jerusalem, and talking with each other about all these things that had happened. While they were talking and discussing, Jesus himself came near and went with them, but their eyes were kept from recognizing him. And he said to them, “What are you discussing with each other while you walk along?” They stood still, looking sad. Then one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answered him, “Are you the only stranger in Jerusalem who does not know the things that have taken place there in these days?” He asked them, “What things?” They replied, “The things about Jesus of Nazareth, who was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people, and how our chief priests and leaders handed him over to be condemned to death and crucified him. But we had hoped that he was the one to redeem Israel. Yes, and besides all this, it is now the third day since these things took place. Moreover, some women of our group astounded us. They were at the tomb early this morning, and when they did not find his body there they came back and told us that they had indeed seen a vision of angels who said that he was alive. Some of those who were with us went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said, but they did not see him.” Then he said to them, “Oh, how foolish you are and how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have declared! Was it not necessary that the Messiah should suffer these things and then enter into his glory?” Then beginning with Moses and all the prophets, he interpreted to them the things about himself in all the scriptures. As they came near the village to which they were going, he walked ahead as if he were going on. But they urged him strongly, saying, “Stay with us, because it is almost evening and the day is now nearly over.” So he went in to stay with them. When he was at the table with them, he took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to them. Then their eyes were opened, and they recognized him, and he vanished from their sight. They said to each other, “Were not our hearts burning within us while he was talking to us on the road, while he was opening the scriptures to us?” That same hour they got up and returned to Jerusalem, and they found the eleven and their companions gathered together. They were saying, “The Lord has risen indeed, and he has appeared to Simon!” Then they told what had happened on the road and how he had been made known to them in the breaking of the bread. Luke 24:13-35 NRSVUE Sermon Part 2: Christ in Our Conversations So for this part two, our theme of our preaching is “Christ in our conversations.” Sabi nga sa Matthew chapter 18:20, “For where two or three are gathered in my name, I am there among them.” But of course, we also honor and value ‘yung mga intimate at personal conversations natin with God through prayer. While it is true na mas yumayabong at nabibigyan ng buhay ang ating mga conversations with each other and the community. After all nga ‘di ba, bilang isang Metropolitan Community Church, community is our middle name. Tama ba?. I also believe na mahalagang pagtuunan din natin ng pansin and a good practice ‘yung pagiging self-aware. Ang matutong makinig sa pansariling pangangailangan, to listen to our bodies, to affirm ourselves first na hindi kasalanan ang pagiging bakla, so that we can also affirm others. We need to resolve our own struggles before we can do that for other people. The famous line: you cannot pour from an empty cup. And we have clarity in our personal lives to inspire that capacity to others. Shit ba? Paborito na ni Joseph?. Mga kasita, we miss you, Chang. So we know that God, through Jesus, has always been with us in our journey. At napakinggan din natin ang isa sa mga pinaka-life-changing na holy conversation moment doon sa ating gospel reading , kung saan, after nilang mag-sharing about scripture ng breaking of bread ay bigla na lang naglaho ‘yung stranger na kasalubong nila patungong Emmaus. At sa punto ring ‘yon, na-realize nila na it was Jesus, that it was him all along. Christ is present in our conversations. Hindi lamang tuwing linggo sa ating praise and worship, kundi sa mga ordinary moments in our lives. Hindi lamang sa mga masasaya, lalo’t higit sa mga masasalimuot at difficult conversations that we have to deal with. Naalala ko ‘yung chika ko, paniniwala ako nung bago ako dumating sa MCC sa Open Table. Pansin niyo ba na sa mga moments na when we have personal conversations with God, may mga times na tayo lang ‘yung nagsasalita, where we cry out to Jesus. We give thanks, we ask forgiveness, and may mga moments naman na tayo ay tahimik lang and letting our hearts speak the prayers that our mouths couldn’t utter. Parang ‘yung mga moments na ‘yon na siya naman ‘yung nangungusap sa atin. Man through words, pero alam mo at ramdam mo ‘yung healing, ‘yung kagaanan ng loob, at sa mga ganitong moments natin tila mas nararamdaman ang kanyang presence sa ating buhay. So last week ay na-mention ko ‘yung tungkol sa mga naging struggle ko sa work recently at kung paano ko binaka ‘yung feeling of being overwhelmed. I mean, I am glad that I was able to get through it, but I am also aware that it’s not the same for everyone. Some people may still be in that situation or perhaps find themselves in the loop na paulit-ulit lang or paikot-ikot lang. Sa dami ng aking iniisip—trabaho, travels, at iba pang ganap as an extrovert at natural people person. At the same time, ‘yung mga gampanin sa ating simbahan as pastor in discernment, in that journey, I stumbled upon ‘yung podcast of Coach Pia Acevedo. Kilala niyo ba si Coach Pia? So si Coach Pia is a life coach, author, and a leadership trainer with over two decades of experience in coaching and counseling. She helps people cut through confusion and live with clarity, purpose, and intention so that they can focus on what truly matters. Isa sa mga magandang napulot ko from her ay connected sa pagiging present. Hindi man lingid sa kaalaman ng lahat na marami sa ating mga akla ay mga breadwinner. Imagine as a queer person who is already struggling to fight discrimination on top of the fight for the same rights as our straight allies. Isa pa sa mga dagdag na challenge ang pagiging breadwinner. Hindi ko na alam kung ilang beses ko nang na-tackle ang topic na ito. I think deserve na nito ng isang preaching series at malalang holy conversation moments at kasama na sa mga listahan ng mga personal advocacies na malapit sa aking puso. Pero habang wala pa tayo doon, I suggest you can grab muna ‘yung copy nung books from Coach Pia. Nag-promote pa, not sponsored. So I’m yet to finish ‘yung first book and ito ‘yun. Ito ‘yung unang “Focus on What Matters”. I’m yet to finish this and plan to start ‘yung isa pa, ‘yung “Moment to Moment”, right after. I hope na makatulong ito upang magkaroon tayo ng clarity sa dami ng ating mga iniisip. So anyway, I’m sure nag-aantay na kayo kung ang haba na ng sinabi ko at wala pa ako doon sa main point. Ito na nga, bilang isang breadwinner na bakla, at another example is sa ating mga straight allies na as a parent, sa mga kapatid nating OFWs na nagtatrabaho at kumakayod , ginagawang araw ang gabi para lang makapagpadala ng pera sa kanilang mga mahal sa buhay. ‘Di ba nga sila ‘yung mga sagot natin sa tanong na, “Para kanino ka bumabangon?”. “Para sa pamilya, para sa future ng mga anak ko.” ‘Di bale nang magkalayo kami kaysa naman sama-sama kaming mamatay na dilat at gutom. At dahil sa dami na nating iniisip, siyempre wala na tayong capacity para sa maliliit na bagay. Tama ba?. No more time to play with the kids after work dahil madalas pagod na lang sa trabaho kung ‘di pa rin sa commute. Buti kung ganun lang, pero minsan mas malala. At personally, ganito ‘yung eksena ko nung mga unang taon ko sa BPO industry bilang isang breadwinner. Napansin ko na sobrang mainitin ang ulo ko at ang dali kong ma-trigger, ‘yung angil sa mga tao kahit na wala pa naman silang ginagawang masama or kahit sa mga maliliit na bagay. Kayo rin ba may ganitong eksena? Let’s pause for a moment at balikan ‘yung mga sandali ng ating mga buhay na tayo ay napasabi ng, “Ang dami ko nang iniisip, dumagdag pa ‘to.”. Ito ang isang manifestation ng kawalan ng clarity. Akala ko ba para sa kanila ka bumabangon, pero sila rin ‘yung unang nakakaramdam ng mga angil at frustrations mo sa buhay. And si Coach Pia reminds us that when we don’t do our inner work, we don’t just suffer alone. The people we love encounter a compromised version of us. ‘Yun ‘yon. Meet the compromised version of you. Imagine that you’re in front of the mirror ng mahiwagang salamin, boy, for a few moments. Look at that compromised version of you. Do you like what you see?. And imagine kung ano na kaya ang extent ng damage that it had cost you and your loved ones. So paano natin matutulungan ‘yung ating compromised version? What does it take to achieve clarity and focus sa ating mga buhay?. So sa book na “Focus on What Matters,” Coach Pia talks about the need for inner work, which is a journey that starts by laying the groundwork for clarity through practices like self-mastery, self-development, and self-commitment. She talked about habits that we can commit to in order to achieve personal clarity. And for today, I’d like to share to you about M.I.C.K. abbreviation siya. That stands for motivating, inspiring, cheering, and being kind to ourselves. It is both a habit that we can commit to and a muscle we exercise because, again, we can’t pour from an empty cup. And these intentional habits will help us fill our cup. So number one is ‘yung letter M, Motivation. Motivation habit is any regimen or routine that you know works well for you. It involves committing to routines, no matter how trivial, that bring out the best in you. Through these personalized activities, we nurture ourselves and anchor on the stability they provide. An example could be making your bed in the morning, listening to music, and preparing breakfast. One more example could be dedicating a time to exercise, let’s say three times a week. So how do we know if a habit or activity is worth committing to?. We know when we feel something is missing if we skip it, and when we distinctly feel recharged by integrating it into our schedule regularly. Motivation habit serves as a fuel to our tank. By committing to these habits, we experience a steady rhythm that keeps us grounded, whether these are daily, weekly, or monthly habits. Next is your Inspiration, your I. If motivation muscle provides the structure for self-care, inspiration muscle naman brings a wave of joy that refreshes us. Unlike motivation habits which follow rhythm, inspiration habits are done less frequently but offer a full recharge. It enables us to stay connected to what makes us feel alive, providing a surge of deep joy in moments when it is needed. Tapping our sources of inspiration which ignite our natural creativity can foster positive energy and overall well-being. And sabi ni Coach Pia, among doon sa mga clients niya, travel is the most common source of inspiration. We can only take trips every so often, but when we do, there’s infusion of new energy. Traveling reconnects us to the natural enthusiasm and joy reminiscent of childhood. And to activate inspiration muscle is to take ownership of your need for mga picker-upper choices and activities that infuse you with the surge of energy. Other than travel, this can also range from planning a trip or to simple pleasures like enjoying a YouTube video or tuning into a podcast. Mga ka-eme. May mga ka-eme ba dito? Yes. Or listening to music that swiftly recharges you to become your best self. Learning something new or engaging in hobbies that awaken your creativity can also serve this purpose. Even revisiting ‘yung mga old hobbies that once sparked joy can once again ignite your enthusiasm for life and tap into the best version of yourself. As clarity is a personal journey, only you yourself are capable of choosing the inspiration that you need. An inspired person feels alive. Whatever brings you inspiration is a non-negotiable in your life. Next naman is ‘yung C which stands for Cheer. Picture yourself as your own personal cheerleader. The cheer muscle involves encouraging ourselves to push past our limits, especially in our adversity. Cheer is a non-negotiable habit we put in place to help us manage stress. We can proactively anticipate stressful times and plan ahead by intentionally plotting activities and inserting habits into our schedule. This will help us manage the demand of our hectic schedule. Sensitivity toward ourselves is crucial in strengthening our cheer muscle. Start exercising sensitivity and observation skills. Look at your calendar and anticipate which specific meetings, social events, projects, or deliverables you know will trigger your stress, anxiety, or heaviness. Kumbaga paghahandaan mo na siya. Pag alam mo mas-stress ako sa week na ‘to , kailangan gumawa na ako ng mga habits na magre-recharge sa akin. This approach provides you with the support needed to manage potential heaviness or disengagement. Since we know ourselves best, let’s prepare ourselves for anticipated stress and activities. Just like a cheerleader motivates the team during the final seconds of a game, we cheer for ourselves to stay resilient and persevere towards our goals. Even when the going gets tough, our cheer muscle enables us to face life’s challenges well-prepared as they often come relentlessly unexpected. A strong cheer muscle enhances our resilience, enabling us to bounce back more quickly from stressful situations. Last naman is ‘yung Kindness. Kindness is your capacity to be nurturing, kind, patient, and compassionate towards yourself just as you would a loved one or a best friend. The strength of our kindness muscle should allow you to be intentional in your caring for others as you would care for yourself. One strong measure of the strength of your kindness muscle is our capacity to forgive ourselves, forgive others, or ask for forgiveness for when we feel we may have hurt. And kindness is the most difficult muscle to strengthen. As often than not, we did not grow up with strong models of people around us living a life of kindness, nurturing patience and love for ourselves. Nabanggit ko rin ‘to doon sa ano natin, parang hirap para sa atin na maging forgiving of ourselves. From a young age, we are also taught to prioritize the needs of others. Yet, our ability to care for others hinges on how well we take care of ourselves. Showing kindness to ourselves is important, especially when we face setbacks or disappointments. It’s about offering ourselves the same support and encouragement that we readily give others. Strengthening our kindness muscle means taking the time to pause, relax, and rest. Doing anything that nurtures you, like eating well, enjoying your favorite food, and getting plenty of sleep is essential. We must accept that we cannot always meet our own expectations and let go of attachments to specific outcomes. By forgiving ourselves when we falter, honoring the progress we’ve made, and staying open to learning from failures, we create a space for us to grow into the best versions of ourselves. Being kind to yourself is also a non-negotiable in your life. So ano siya, pwedeng magkakahalo siya, ‘yung mga what motivates you can also inspire you. Pwedeng-pwede siyang pumasok doon sa alin sa mga iyon. So our internal guide has a big say in how we make decisions. It’s all about progress, learning, and embracing our imperfections along the way. This journey of growth allows us to center ourselves and focus on what truly counts in life. The more we nurture this process, the better we become at self-care and connecting with our genuine selves. So I hope that you also learned something as much as I did nung sa book na ‘to at marami pa. Ipapa-hiram ko kasi hindi pa ako tapos. At ‘yun sa part na nai-share ko sa inyo about sa “Focus on What Matters” by Coach Pia, ito ‘yung mga simpleng bagay na pwede nating gawin para sa ating mga sarili to move from a compromised version to the best version of ourselves. Pero hindi natatapos doon ang lahat. As we strive to become the best version of ourselves, mahalaga ring pag-usapan ang pagse-set ng boundaries. Beep beep. Baka may matamaan sa pagse-set ng boundaries. Minsan parang profound pakinggan kasi nung boundaries at hindi siya ganoon ka-common sa kultura nating mga Pilipino. Pero just because it’s not common doesn’t mean hindi na natin ito dapat pagtuunan ng pansin. Halimbawa sa pagiging breadwinner, dahil ikaw na ‘yung naghahanap-buhay, mahalagang mag-set ka ng boundaries through shared responsibility sa inyong mga bahay, mga tahanan. I-delegate mo ang mga simpleng gawain upang kahit papaano ay mabawasan ang iyong iniisip. Some might say na madaling sabihin pero mahirap gawin , lalo na para sa ilan na bukod sa pagiging breadwinner ay magulang din, or to be specific, nanay. Mahirap talagang iwalay ang pagiging nanay sa pagiging provider as a mother. Pero mahalaga na naiintindihan ito ng mga tao sa paligid mo. Oo, nanay ka , maghahanda ka ng pagkain, mag-aasikaso ka ng gamit ng mga anak mo, but it’s also important to set boundaries. Tandaan mo na kailangan mo rin ng sapat na pahinga para makapag-focus ka sa trabaho na siyang nagbibigay ng kakayahan mong mag-provide para sa iyong pamilya. Kailangan itong ma-communicate. Kailangan ng maayos na usapan kung paano mas mapapagaan ang inyong sitwasyon. At isa lang ito sa marami pang mga halimbawa. Iba’t iba ‘yung dynamics ng bawat isa. Pero ang punto ay ito: Huwag mong piliting saluhin ang lahat. Matutong manghingi ng tulong kapag kailangan. Alam ko hindi ‘to madali, but I hope you are able to do so and have these conversations. After all, wala namang hindi nadadaan sa maayos na usapan. So now let’s go back to the journey ni Cleopas at isa pang disciple. Let us be reminded of their enthusiasm when they realized that they had been in conversation with Jesus all along. This story reminds us that God is always with us sa ating paglalakbay, that we can be that other disciple na unnamed. Hindi man tayo ever makapaglalakad kasama ang historical Jesus, ‘di ba, o baka sa panaginip, pero ano ba ‘yung pangako? That we have each other. We experience Christ in our many conversations with our families, with our loved ones, with our chosen families like here sa ating simbahan, at lalo na when we are intentional sa ating pakikinig at pagiging in solidarity sa iba’t iba pang community lalo na sa mga maralita. As I close this part two, keyword “close,” napaisip rin ako baka lumalayo na ako sa theme na “Christ in our conversations.”. Pero I had a Holy Spirit activate moment. I feel that this is a perfect opportunity to also talk about self-love —ang matutunang makinig sa kung anong sinasabi ng ating mga katawan at isip. After all, magkaugnay ang pagkakaroon ng personal clarity sa ating buhay at ang pagkakaroon ng meaningful conversations sa ating kapwa. By building these small habits for ourselves ay mas mapapayabong natin ang ating mga conversation at ang pag-unawa sa journey ng bawat isa, dahil hindi naman tayo pare-pareho ng kwento, and that’s the beauty of our diversity. Maaaring hindi tayo pare-pareho ng ating pinagdadaanang struggle pero pareho lang naman ang ating pinaglalaban. At sa bawat pakikipag-usap natin sa iba, we find Christ in their stories and hope that they find Christ in us and through us. Napapalalim ang ating pakikipagbahagi at pakikisangkot sa pakikinig ng kanilang kwento. We hold the power to carry these stories and share them with others. And being with Open Table MCC for almost 10 years now, marami na akong nakasama, nakasalamuha, nakadaupang-palad, nakausap at narinig ng mga kwento—ang mga Lumad, ang mga persons deprived of liberty sa QC Women’s Penitentiary , ang mga magsasaka sa Lupang Ramos, ang mga batang PLHIV na nasa pangangalaga ng Duyan Foundation at Project Red Ribbon, at ang ilan sa mga communities na naabutan ng tulong ng Pride Cares, mga nasalanta ng bagyo sa Rodriguez, Rizal at iba pang naabutan ng tulong through our partnership sa iba’t iba pang LGBTQIA+ organizations. Ang kanilang mga kwento ay patuloy kong dadalhin at subukang maibahagi sa marami pang pakikipag-usap, lalo na sa panibagong responsibility as pastor in discernment. Ganito rin ang sinasabi ko sa mga students who come and be in immersion with us. Iilan lang sa kanila ang bakla at may katulad na kwento sa atin, pero ibinabahagi natin ang ating mga kwento in the hope na dalhin nila ito as they go on in their lives hanggang makarating na sila sa kanilang adulting journey, sharing the good news sa mga kapwa nila estudyante who still struggle to resolve their sexuality with their spirituality, to tell them about the small church where you can come as you are in your most authentic self, where you can express your love of God in the most fantabulous and flamboyant way. Amen ba? At bilang Easter people, dahil hindi lang natapos ang kwento sa muling pagkabuhay ni Kristo, let us be reminded that we are the continuation of the story. Galing kay RD ‘yan at lagi kong panghahawakan ‘yang narinig ko sa preaching niya. Ayan, nawala na ako. And with that comes the power na magpatuloy at bilang Open Table MCC to have meaningful conversations, even difficult ones, to take part in the call for ceasefire and to put an end to meaningless war. Conversations that continue to create safe spaces, and our participation in the wider work of justice and peace through Jesus who proclaimed a radically inclusive love for all people, at ‘pag kinakailangan ay harapin ang mga usapang mahirap lalo na sa mga kakilala or kapamilya natin na patuloy nagbubulag-bulagan at pumipili at naghahalal ng mga leader na corrupt at sangkot sa katiwalian. Hindi man ito madali, I hope that we’re always reminded na parte rin sila ng pinaglalaban, that there’s more that unites us than separates us. Let us also be intentional sa pangangamusta sa mga mahal natin sa buhay knowing always that Jesus is present in our conversations to speak with love and compassion. At kung ikaw naman ‘yung may kinikimkim sa loob mo kung ano man ‘yan, I hope that the Holy Spirit touches your heart so you can find the courage to have that conversation, one that could inspire, heal, and transform you and others, knowing that God, Jesus, will be there with you. Amen. The post Easter: The Walk To Emmaus Part 2 appeared first on Open Table Metropolitan Community Church.

Slate and the team at Eureka Street Productions are so honored by this award and want to thank everyone who has listened to and supported the show. This series tells the story of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco, one of the first gay-positive churches in America, and how its congregation faced the AIDS epidemic, including the deaths of hundreds of its members.At the heart of the series is a remarkable discovery: 1,200 cassette tapes of sermons, memorials, and music recorded inside the church during the worst years of the crisis. A church member rescued them after they'd been thrown away. What you hear isn't people reconstructing the past from memory, it's the actual voices from inside the crisis, preserved on tape and brought to life across 10 episodes. It's a story about resilience, the strength of community, and finding beauty and hope even in the darkest of times—a message with powerful resonances decades later.To celebrate this award, Lynne Gerber, the host of the show, recorded a special note to listeners, and we are bringing back the trailer to introduce new listeners—who are just finding When We All Get to Heaven from the Peabody Award—to the show. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Slate and the team at Eureka Street Productions are so honored by this award and want to thank everyone who has listened to and supported the show. This series tells the story of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco, one of the first gay-positive churches in America, and how its congregation faced the AIDS epidemic, including the deaths of hundreds of its members.At the heart of the series is a remarkable discovery: 1,200 cassette tapes of sermons, memorials, and music recorded inside the church during the worst years of the crisis. A church member rescued them after they'd been thrown away. What you hear isn't people reconstructing the past from memory, it's the actual voices from inside the crisis, preserved on tape and brought to life across 10 episodes. It's a story about resilience, the strength of community, and finding beauty and hope even in the darkest of times—a message with powerful resonances decades later.To celebrate this award, Lynne Gerber, the host of the show, recorded a special note to listeners, and we are bringing back the trailer to introduce new listeners—who are just finding When We All Get to Heaven from the Peabody Award—to the show. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this special episode of 'Straight White American Jesus,' the host introduces the podcast series 'When We All Get To Heaven,' which chronicles the history of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco during the AIDS epidemic. The series, produced by Lynn Gerber and available on Slate, uses an archive of 1200 cassette tape recordings from the church to explore themes of grief, joy, faith, and community amidst the crisis. The episode features reflections from church members, including Reverend Jim Mitulsky, detailing personal and collective struggles and resilience. The series celebrates the church's inclusive theology and its unyielding commitment to supporting its queer congregation through the darkest times. https://www.heavenpodcast.org/#home-section Donate: https://axismundi.supercast.com/donations/new Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In the final episode of When We All Get to Heaven, we catch up on what's happened in the many years between the emergence of effective treatment for AIDS in the late ‘90s and the fall of 2025, when we recorded this episode. We linger on a moment back in June 1999, when Jim was still pastor and called on the church to remember that AIDS wasn't over. Because—advances notwithstanding—it still isn't over.    For more on Gilbert Baker and the history of the rainbow flag see the  Gilbert Baker Foundation. For more on Prep see San Francisco AIDS Foundation, What is PrEP?  “The Path that Ends AIDS: 2023 UNAIDS Global Update” outlines a possible end to the AIDS epidemic.    The story of Jacob's Ladder is in the book of Genesis chapter 28, verses 10-19. The text for “This is the Day that God Has Made” is biblical with music by Leon C. Roberts. “We are Climbing Jacob's Ladder” is a traditional hymn. “This Little Light of Mine” – text traditional, music by Penelope Gneisen “Song of the Soul” is by Cris Williamson and was sung by her at MCC San Francisco on April 24, 2000.  For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-10. When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/credits. This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org). Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds. The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco's archive. It was performed by MCC-SF's musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Domestic BGM. Thanks to Dr. Judy Auerbach of the University of California at San Francisco.  Thanks to Sue Fulton for permission to use “This Little Light of Mine.”  Thanks to Cris Williamson for permission to use “Song of the Soul.”  Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible.   Some links to good groups: The Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco – the congregation's current website.  Metropolitan Community Churches – the denomination of which MCC San Francisco is a part.  San Francisco AIDS Foundation – a place to seek information about HIV.  POZ Magazine – a place to learn everything else about HIV (information included). Save AIDS Research – their recent, epic 24 hours to Save Research conference with all the latest HIV research is available on YouTube through this site.    LGBTQ Religious Archives Network – the place to get lost in LGBTQ+ religious history.  Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In the final episode of When We All Get to Heaven, we catch up on what's happened in the many years between the emergence of effective treatment for AIDS in the late ‘90s and the fall of 2025, when we recorded this episode. We linger on a moment back in June 1999, when Jim was still pastor and called on the church to remember that AIDS wasn't over. Because—advances notwithstanding—it still isn't over.    For more on Gilbert Baker and the history of the rainbow flag see the  Gilbert Baker Foundation. For more on Prep see San Francisco AIDS Foundation, What is PrEP?  “The Path that Ends AIDS: 2023 UNAIDS Global Update” outlines a possible end to the AIDS epidemic.    The story of Jacob's Ladder is in the book of Genesis chapter 28, verses 10-19. The text for “This is the Day that God Has Made” is biblical with music by Leon C. Roberts. “We are Climbing Jacob's Ladder” is a traditional hymn. “This Little Light of Mine” – text traditional, music by Penelope Gneisen “Song of the Soul” is by Cris Williamson and was sung by her at MCC San Francisco on April 24, 2000.  For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-10. When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/credits. This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org). Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds. The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco's archive. It was performed by MCC-SF's musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Domestic BGM. Thanks to Dr. Judy Auerbach of the University of California at San Francisco.  Thanks to Sue Fulton for permission to use “This Little Light of Mine.”  Thanks to Cris Williamson for permission to use “Song of the Soul.”  Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible.   Some links to good groups: The Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco – the congregation's current website.  Metropolitan Community Churches – the denomination of which MCC San Francisco is a part.  San Francisco AIDS Foundation – a place to seek information about HIV.  POZ Magazine – a place to learn everything else about HIV (information included). Save AIDS Research – their recent, epic 24 hours to Save Research conference with all the latest HIV research is available on YouTube through this site.    LGBTQ Religious Archives Network – the place to get lost in LGBTQ+ religious history.  Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In the final episode of When We All Get to Heaven, we catch up on what's happened in the many years between the emergence of effective treatment for AIDS in the late ‘90s and the fall of 2025, when we recorded this episode. We linger on a moment back in June 1999, when Jim was still pastor and called on the church to remember that AIDS wasn't over. Because—advances notwithstanding—it still isn't over.    For more on Gilbert Baker and the history of the rainbow flag see the  Gilbert Baker Foundation. For more on Prep see San Francisco AIDS Foundation, What is PrEP?  “The Path that Ends AIDS: 2023 UNAIDS Global Update” outlines a possible end to the AIDS epidemic.    The story of Jacob's Ladder is in the book of Genesis chapter 28, verses 10-19. The text for “This is the Day that God Has Made” is biblical with music by Leon C. Roberts. “We are Climbing Jacob's Ladder” is a traditional hymn. “This Little Light of Mine” – text traditional, music by Penelope Gneisen “Song of the Soul” is by Cris Williamson and was sung by her at MCC San Francisco on April 24, 2000.  For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-10. When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/credits. This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org). Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds. The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco's archive. It was performed by MCC-SF's musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Domestic BGM. Thanks to Dr. Judy Auerbach of the University of California at San Francisco.  Thanks to Sue Fulton for permission to use “This Little Light of Mine.”  Thanks to Cris Williamson for permission to use “Song of the Soul.”  Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible.   Some links to good groups: The Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco – the congregation's current website.  Metropolitan Community Churches – the denomination of which MCC San Francisco is a part.  San Francisco AIDS Foundation – a place to seek information about HIV.  POZ Magazine – a place to learn everything else about HIV (information included). Save AIDS Research – their recent, epic 24 hours to Save Research conference with all the latest HIV research is available on YouTube through this site.    LGBTQ Religious Archives Network – the place to get lost in LGBTQ+ religious history.  Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

All month, KALW's Queer Power Hour will be airing a special series called ‘When We All Get To Heaven.' With archival tape it tells the story of one of the first gay-positive churches, the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco during the height of the AIDS crisis in the 80s and 90s.The series brings to life a community facing personal, social, and political trials, including the deaths of hundreds of its members. It's hosted by Lynne Gerber. Here's Lynne speaking with Crosscurrents host, Hana Baba.

This year, for the first time since it was established in 1988, the U.S. did not commemorate World AIDS Day on December 1. That's despite more than 630,000 deaths from HIV-related illnesses in 2024, according to the World Health Organization. This week, we're traveling back in time, to visit a queer church that provided refuge and support to San Francisco's gay community during the height of the AIDS crisis. We're bringing you the first episode of a new podcast called We All Get To Heaven, which draws on sound from 1,200 cassette tapes – recordings of songs, memorials, and sermons from the Metropolitan Community Church.  It brings to life voices of loss, and of faith, of people who refused to abandon their spirituality or their queerness, and who built a community that could hold both. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In 1996 everything changed. With the introduction of antiretroviral medications called the “AIDS cocktail,” people started getting better – some dramatically – and surviving AIDS became a real possibility. In the wake of these changes, MCC found itself taking stock of what they lost to AIDS and using what they learned to address larger social issues– from medical marijuana to homelessness. Sometimes these political stances felt heroic and a way to use that collective energy, and other times it made the church very unpopular with the changing Castro neighborhood.    “Freedom is Coming”  is by Anders Nyberg.  “All Things New” is by Rory Cooney. “Blessed Assurance” is by Franny Crosby. “Gloria (Angels We Have Heard on High” is a traditional Christmas hymn.  “The Potter's House” is by V. Michael McKay.  For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-9. Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen. Production credits:  When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/credits. This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org). Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds. The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco's archive. It was performed by MCC-SF's musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Domestic BGM. Special thanks to Tom Ammiano, Tommi Avicolli-Mecca, Stuart Gaffney, John Lewis, Dr. Jen Reck, Matt Sharp, and Dana Van Gorder for their help with this episode.  Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible.   Some links to good groups Lyric Center for LGBTQQ+ Youth The Ali Forney Center The Trevor Project's 2022 report on LGBTQ youth and homelessness Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In 1996 everything changed. With the introduction of antiretroviral medications called the “AIDS cocktail,” people started getting better – some dramatically – and surviving AIDS became a real possibility. In the wake of these changes, MCC found itself taking stock of what they lost to AIDS and using what they learned to address larger social issues– from medical marijuana to homelessness. Sometimes these political stances felt heroic and a way to use that collective energy, and other times it made the church very unpopular with the changing Castro neighborhood.    “Freedom is Coming”  is by Anders Nyberg.  “All Things New” is by Rory Cooney. “Blessed Assurance” is by Franny Crosby. “Gloria (Angels We Have Heard on High” is a traditional Christmas hymn.  “The Potter's House” is by V. Michael McKay.  For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-9. Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen. Production credits:  When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/credits. This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org). Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds. The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco's archive. It was performed by MCC-SF's musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Domestic BGM. Special thanks to Tom Ammiano, Tommi Avicolli-Mecca, Stuart Gaffney, John Lewis, Dr. Jen Reck, Matt Sharp, and Dana Van Gorder for their help with this episode.  Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible.   Some links to good groups Lyric Center for LGBTQQ+ Youth The Ali Forney Center The Trevor Project's 2022 report on LGBTQ youth and homelessness Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In 1996 everything changed. With the introduction of antiretroviral medications called the “AIDS cocktail,” people started getting better – some dramatically – and surviving AIDS became a real possibility. In the wake of these changes, MCC found itself taking stock of what they lost to AIDS and using what they learned to address larger social issues– from medical marijuana to homelessness. Sometimes these political stances felt heroic and a way to use that collective energy, and other times it made the church very unpopular with the changing Castro neighborhood.    “Freedom is Coming”  is by Anders Nyberg.  “All Things New” is by Rory Cooney. “Blessed Assurance” is by Franny Crosby. “Gloria (Angels We Have Heard on High” is a traditional Christmas hymn.  “The Potter's House” is by V. Michael McKay.  For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-9. Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen. Production credits:  When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/credits. This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org). Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds. The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco's archive. It was performed by MCC-SF's musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Domestic BGM. Special thanks to Tom Ammiano, Tommi Avicolli-Mecca, Stuart Gaffney, John Lewis, Dr. Jen Reck, Matt Sharp, and Dana Van Gorder for their help with this episode.  Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible.   Some links to good groups Lyric Center for LGBTQQ+ Youth The Ali Forney Center The Trevor Project's 2022 report on LGBTQ youth and homelessness Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In 1995 Rev. Jim Mitulski became HIV positive -- what's known as seroconversion. It was 14 years into the epidemic and people knew what HIV/AIDS was, how you got it, and how you could prevent it. And when Jim got sick, he got very sick. What was it like to become ill so publicly? How would the church and the community respond? And what could Jim possibly preach about on his first Sunday back? “My Soul Doth Magnify” is from Camille Saint-Saens' Christmas Oratorio, Op. 12, 1858. “The 23rd Psalm (Dedicated to My Mother)” is by Bobby McFerrin.  The biblical story of the death of the prophet Elijah is in Second Kings, chapter 2.    For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-8. When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/credits. This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org). Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds. The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco's archive. It was performed by MCC-SF's musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Domestic BGM.  Thanks to Ed Wolf and Frank DePelisi for talking us through the issues around HIV status and sero-sorting in the mid-1990s.  And thanks to Bobby McFerrin and Linda Goldstein for use of “The 23rd Psalm (Dedicated to My Mother).” You can see McFerrin conducting his VOCAbuLarieS singers singing the piece here.  Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible.   Some links to good groups: National Resource Center on HIV and Aging – resources for older adults living with HIV.  Surviving Voices – an oral history documentary project on how different communities have experienced HIV and AIDS. The most recent focuses on lifelong and long-term HIV survivors.  Let's Kick Ass – AIDS Survivors Syndrome – support for long-term HIV survivors.  Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Please enjoy this episode from a podcast we love: When We All Get To Heaven. To share a song pick for the Rock That Doesn't Roll Christmas Special, call ‪(629) 204-4264‬ and leave a message. To join our Patreon community who make this show possible, go to https://patreon.com/rtdr----In 1993, more than 10 years into the AIDS epidemic, the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco (MCC-SF) tries to remember all they've lost. We think about remembering too after encountering an archive of 1,200 cassette recordings of this queer church's services during the height of the epidemic. Whether you're a regular church goer or would never step into one, we invite you to spend time with this LGBTQ+ San Francisco church as it struggles to reconcile sexuality and faith in the midst of an existential crisis. For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-1.About the montage: The worship service in this episode was on February 28, 1993. The Dyke March proclamation was written and read by Rev. Lea Brown. Rev. Karen Foster read the statement that sexual orientation does not need to be changed. Jim Mitulski recalled his hospital visit with the man who recognized him by his shape. Paul Francis told strangers at a restaurant to get ugly lovers and Eric Rofes told his mother that he was going to stay safe and keep having sex. Cleve Jones had the vision of a thousand rotting corpses, Rev. Ron Russell Coons preached that we have AIDS as a community, and Rev. Troy Perry proclaimed a revival on Eureka Street. The other people heard in the episode are either unknown or did not want to be named.   When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit http://heavenpodcast.org/credits.This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org).Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds.The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco's archive. It was performed by MCC-SF's musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Tasty Morsels. Thanks to Paul Katz and Henry Machen for permission to use “June in San Francisco” from their fabulous 1991 musical Dirty Dreams of a Clean Cut Kid. The estate of Leonard Bernstein for the use of “Somewhere” from West Side Story. 

In 1995 Rev. Jim Mitulski became HIV positive -- what's known as seroconversion. It was 14 years into the epidemic and people knew what HIV/AIDS was, how you got it, and how you could prevent it. And when Jim got sick, he got very sick. What was it like to become ill so publicly? How would the church and the community respond? And what could Jim possibly preach about on his first Sunday back? “My Soul Doth Magnify” is from Camille Saint-Saens' Christmas Oratorio, Op. 12, 1858. “The 23rd Psalm (Dedicated to My Mother)” is by Bobby McFerrin.  The biblical story of the death of the prophet Elijah is in Second Kings, chapter 2.    For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-8. When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/credits. This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org). Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds. The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco's archive. It was performed by MCC-SF's musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Domestic BGM.  Thanks to Ed Wolf and Frank DePelisi for talking us through the issues around HIV status and sero-sorting in the mid-1990s.  And thanks to Bobby McFerrin and Linda Goldstein for use of “The 23rd Psalm (Dedicated to My Mother).” You can see McFerrin conducting his VOCAbuLarieS singers singing the piece here.  Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible.   Some links to good groups: National Resource Center on HIV and Aging – resources for older adults living with HIV.  Surviving Voices – an oral history documentary project on how different communities have experienced HIV and AIDS. The most recent focuses on lifelong and long-term HIV survivors.  Let's Kick Ass – AIDS Survivors Syndrome – support for long-term HIV survivors.  Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In 1995 Rev. Jim Mitulski became HIV positive -- what's known as seroconversion. It was 14 years into the epidemic and people knew what HIV/AIDS was, how you got it, and how you could prevent it. And when Jim got sick, he got very sick. What was it like to become ill so publicly? How would the church and the community respond? And what could Jim possibly preach about on his first Sunday back? “My Soul Doth Magnify” is from Camille Saint-Saens' Christmas Oratorio, Op. 12, 1858. “The 23rd Psalm (Dedicated to My Mother)” is by Bobby McFerrin.  The biblical story of the death of the prophet Elijah is in Second Kings, chapter 2.    For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-8. When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/credits. This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org). Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds. The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco's archive. It was performed by MCC-SF's musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Domestic BGM.  Thanks to Ed Wolf and Frank DePelisi for talking us through the issues around HIV status and sero-sorting in the mid-1990s.  And thanks to Bobby McFerrin and Linda Goldstein for use of “The 23rd Psalm (Dedicated to My Mother).” You can see McFerrin conducting his VOCAbuLarieS singers singing the piece here.  Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible.   Some links to good groups: National Resource Center on HIV and Aging – resources for older adults living with HIV.  Surviving Voices – an oral history documentary project on how different communities have experienced HIV and AIDS. The most recent focuses on lifelong and long-term HIV survivors.  Let's Kick Ass – AIDS Survivors Syndrome – support for long-term HIV survivors.  Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When the Metropolitan Community Church was founded in the late sixties, it was one of the first gay positive churches in America. When AIDS hit, it became a refuge for people who were sick and those who were mourning them.  In this episode, Anna talks to researcher Lynne Gerber, about finding boxes of cassettes under the church floor in an MCC church in San Francisco, and how those recordings of sermons and songs became a podcast about finding community and comfort during a crisis.  Lynne Gerber is the host of the 10-episode series When We All Get to Heaven. Death, Sex & Money is now produced by Slate! To support us and our colleagues, please sign up for our membership program, Slate Plus! Members get ad-free podcasts, bonus content on lots of Slate shows, and full access to all the articles on Slate.com. Sign up today at slate.com/dsmplus. And if you're new to the show, welcome. We're so glad you're here. Find us and follow us on Instagram and you can find Anna's newsletter at annasale.substack.com. Our new email address, where you can reach us with voice memos, pep talks, questions, critiques, is deathsexmoney@slate.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When the Metropolitan Community Church was founded in the late sixties, it was one of the first gay positive churches in America. When AIDS hit, it became a refuge for people who were sick and those who were mourning them.  In this episode, Anna talks to researcher Lynne Gerber, about finding boxes of cassettes under the church floor in an MCC church in San Francisco, and how those recordings of sermons and songs became a podcast about finding community and comfort during a crisis.  Lynne Gerber is the host of the 10-episode series When We All Get to Heaven. Death, Sex & Money is now produced by Slate! To support us and our colleagues, please sign up for our membership program, Slate Plus! Members get ad-free podcasts, bonus content on lots of Slate shows, and full access to all the articles on Slate.com. Sign up today at slate.com/dsmplus. And if you're new to the show, welcome. We're so glad you're here. Find us and follow us on Instagram and you can find Anna's newsletter at annasale.substack.com. Our new email address, where you can reach us with voice memos, pep talks, questions, critiques, is deathsexmoney@slate.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When the Metropolitan Community Church was founded in the late sixties, it was one of the first gay positive churches in America. When AIDS hit, it became a refuge for people who were sick and those who were mourning them.  In this episode, Anna talks to researcher Lynne Gerber, about finding boxes of cassettes under the church floor in an MCC church in San Francisco, and how those recordings of sermons and songs became a podcast about finding community and comfort during a crisis.  Lynne Gerber is the host of the 10-episode series When We All Get to Heaven. Death, Sex & Money is now produced by Slate! To support us and our colleagues, please sign up for our membership program, Slate Plus! Members get ad-free podcasts, bonus content on lots of Slate shows, and full access to all the articles on Slate.com. Sign up today at slate.com/dsmplus. And if you're new to the show, welcome. We're so glad you're here. Find us and follow us on Instagram and you can find Anna's newsletter at annasale.substack.com. Our new email address, where you can reach us with voice memos, pep talks, questions, critiques, is deathsexmoney@slate.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When the Metropolitan Community Church was founded in the late sixties, it was one of the first gay positive churches in America. When AIDS hit, it became a refuge for people who were sick and those who were mourning them.  In this episode, Anna talks to researcher Lynne Gerber, about finding boxes of cassettes under the church floor in an MCC church in San Francisco, and how those recordings of sermons and songs became a podcast about finding community and comfort during a crisis.  Lynne Gerber is the host of the 10-episode series When We All Get to Heaven. Death, Sex & Money is now produced by Slate! To support us and our colleagues, please sign up for our membership program, Slate Plus! Members get ad-free podcasts, bonus content on lots of Slate shows, and full access to all the articles on Slate.com. Sign up today at slate.com/dsmplus. And if you're new to the show, welcome. We're so glad you're here. Find us and follow us on Instagram and you can find Anna's newsletter at annasale.substack.com. Our new email address, where you can reach us with voice memos, pep talks, questions, critiques, is deathsexmoney@slate.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When the Metropolitan Community Church was founded in the late sixties, it was one of the first gay positive churches in America. When AIDS hit, it became a refuge for people who were sick and those who were mourning them.  In this episode, Anna talks to researcher Lynne Gerber, about finding boxes of cassettes under the church floor in an MCC church in San Francisco, and how those recordings of sermons and songs became a podcast about finding community and comfort during a crisis.  Lynne Gerber is the host of the 10-episode series When We All Get to Heaven. Death, Sex & Money is now produced by Slate! To support us and our colleagues, please sign up for our membership program, Slate Plus! Members get ad-free podcasts, bonus content on lots of Slate shows, and full access to all the articles on Slate.com. Sign up today at slate.com/dsmplus. And if you're new to the show, welcome. We're so glad you're here. Find us and follow us on Instagram and you can find Anna's newsletter at annasale.substack.com. Our new email address, where you can reach us with voice memos, pep talks, questions, critiques, is deathsexmoney@slate.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Scott and Bruce were the hottest couple in church. Scott, a hula dancer, seemed destined for Bruce, the hunky “lumbersexual,” and the church delighted when they got together. Their brief love affair sparkled before Bruce got sick and died. Their story is one of multiple “dress rehearsals”– when friends, family and lovers went through AIDS with their loved ones wondering who would be next and sometimes knowing it might be you.  You can see Scott perform in a 1992 InterPlay piece called “God, Sex and Power” here. He's the one with the bandaids on his knees.  Singing Positive is a two-part documentary film about the San Francisco Gay Men's Chorus (SFGMC) and its experience with AIDS that spans 15 years. The first film, which featured Scott, was produced in 1992 and is hard to find online. The second film, produced in 2009, saw the filmmakers return to SFGMC to explore the impact of AIDS on the chorus over time. The 2009 film, with clips of Scott from the first film, is here. And you can watch some amazing SFGMC performances on their YouTube channel here.  Scott's San Francisco hula school was Nā Lei Hulu I Ka Wēkiu. They celebrated their 40th anniversary in 2025. Scott's teacher and friend, Kumu Patrick Makuakāne is in the 2023 cohort of MacArthur Fellows. His recent work includes Māhū, a work by and with trans hula performers.   On the MCC in Hawai'i, see the Queer Histories of Hawai'i's story here.  For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-7 .  When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/credits. This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org). Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds. The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco's archive. It was performed by MCC-SF's musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Domestic BGM.  “Spirit of the Living God” is by Daniel Iverson. “In the Garden,” also known as “I Come to the Garden Alone” is by C. Austin Miles. It's the favorite hymn of many a Christain mother, aunt, and grandmother. The soloist is Juliette Galuteria, Scott Galuteria and Brickwood Galuteria's mother  “God Prepare Me to Be a Sanctuary” is by Randy Scruggs and John Thompson.   Special thanks to the friends and experts who helped us think through this episode.  Frank DeLuca William Salit and Stan Stone Dr. Rachel Gross Dr. Christopher Cantwell Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible.   Some links to good groups: The Hawai'i Health and Harm Reduction Center – reducing the harm and fighting the stigma of HIV in Hawai'i.  International EMS and Firefighter Pride Alliance – courage over adversity.  Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Scott and Bruce were the hottest couple in church. Scott, a hula dancer, seemed destined for Bruce, the hunky “lumbersexual,” and the church delighted when they got together. Their brief love affair sparkled before Bruce got sick and died. Their story is one of multiple “dress rehearsals”– when friends, family and lovers went through AIDS with their loved ones wondering who would be next and sometimes knowing it might be you.  You can see Scott perform in a 1992 InterPlay piece called “God, Sex and Power” here. He's the one with the bandaids on his knees.  Singing Positive is a two-part documentary film about the San Francisco Gay Men's Chorus (SFGMC) and its experience with AIDS that spans 15 years. The first film, which featured Scott, was produced in 1992 and is hard to find online. The second film, produced in 2009, saw the filmmakers return to SFGMC to explore the impact of AIDS on the chorus over time. The 2009 film, with clips of Scott from the first film, is here. And you can watch some amazing SFGMC performances on their YouTube channel here.  Scott's San Francisco hula school was Nā Lei Hulu I Ka Wēkiu. They celebrated their 40th anniversary in 2025. Scott's teacher and friend, Kumu Patrick Makuakāne is in the 2023 cohort of MacArthur Fellows. His recent work includes Māhū, a work by and with trans hula performers.   On the MCC in Hawai'i, see the Queer Histories of Hawai'i's story here.  For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-7 .  When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/credits. This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org). Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds. The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco's archive. It was performed by MCC-SF's musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Domestic BGM.  “Spirit of the Living God” is by Daniel Iverson. “In the Garden,” also known as “I Come to the Garden Alone” is by C. Austin Miles. It's the favorite hymn of many a Christain mother, aunt, and grandmother. The soloist is Juliette Galuteria, Scott Galuteria and Brickwood Galuteria's mother  “God Prepare Me to Be a Sanctuary” is by Randy Scruggs and John Thompson.   Special thanks to the friends and experts who helped us think through this episode.  Frank DeLuca William Salit and Stan Stone Dr. Rachel Gross Dr. Christopher Cantwell Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible.   Some links to good groups: The Hawai'i Health and Harm Reduction Center – reducing the harm and fighting the stigma of HIV in Hawai'i.  International EMS and Firefighter Pride Alliance – courage over adversity.  Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Scott and Bruce were the hottest couple in church. Scott, a hula dancer, seemed destined for Bruce, the hunky “lumbersexual,” and the church delighted when they got together. Their brief love affair sparkled before Bruce got sick and died. Their story is one of multiple “dress rehearsals”– when friends, family and lovers went through AIDS with their loved ones wondering who would be next and sometimes knowing it might be you.  You can see Scott perform in a 1992 InterPlay piece called “God, Sex and Power” here. He's the one with the bandaids on his knees.  Singing Positive is a two-part documentary film about the San Francisco Gay Men's Chorus (SFGMC) and its experience with AIDS that spans 15 years. The first film, which featured Scott, was produced in 1992 and is hard to find online. The second film, produced in 2009, saw the filmmakers return to SFGMC to explore the impact of AIDS on the chorus over time. The 2009 film, with clips of Scott from the first film, is here. And you can watch some amazing SFGMC performances on their YouTube channel here.  Scott was a member of Hālau Nā Kamalei o Līlīlehua (here's a recent video) under the direction of Kumu Hula Robert Uluwehi Cazimero. When he moved to San Francisco, Scott supported his hula brother, Patrick Makuakāne's hula school Nā Lei Hulu I Ka Wēkiu. Patrick's recent work includes Māhū, a production by and with trans hula performers.  On the MCC in Hawai'i, see the Queer Histories of Hawai'i's story here.  For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-7 .  When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/credits. This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org). Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds. The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco's archive. It was performed by MCC-SF's musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Domestic BGM.  “Spirit of the Living God” is by Daniel Iverson. “In the Garden,” also known as “I Come to the Garden Alone” is by C. Austin Miles. It's the favorite hymn of many a Christain mother, aunt, and grandmother. The soloist is Juliette Galuteria, Scott Galuteria and Brickwood Galuteria's mother  “God Prepare Me to Be a Sanctuary” is by Randy Scruggs and John Thompson.   Special thanks to the friends and experts who helped us think through this episode.  Frank DeLuca William Salit and Stan Stone Dr. Rachel Gross Dr. Christopher Cantwell Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible.   Some links to good groups: The Hawai'i Health and Harm Reduction Center – reducing the harm and fighting the stigma of HIV in Hawai'i.  International EMS and Firefighter Pride Alliance – courage over adversity.  Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The Sunday after Magic Johnson announced his HIV-status, Jim Mitulski preached a sermon on being tired of people dying. We're sharing it as an interlude, a pause, and an immersion into one moment in AIDS' bleak midwinter.  For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/interlude. In the sermon Rev. Mitulski refers to ARC. That means AIDS-Related Complex, a diagnostic category meant to indicate an earlier stage of HIV infection than AIDS. It was common in the period to hear references to both AIDS and ARC.  “Old Devil Time” is by Pete Seeger. The AIDS verses are by MCC San Francisco congregant Paul Francis.  You can see Magic Johnson's press release, announcing his HIV status here.  The biblical passage Rev. Mitulski is preaching on is John 11:1-44. Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen. When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/credits. This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org). Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds. The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco's archive. It was performed by MCC-SF's musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Domestic BGM.  Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible.   Some links to good groups: AIDS Healthcare Foundation – provides medical care and support for people living with HIV/AIDS and preventative care for people at risk for contracting it.  The Magic Johnson Foundation – founded to address HIV/AIDS. Expanded to include education and community engagement.  San Francisco AIDS Foundation – a place to seek information about HIV.  POZ Magazine – a place to learn everything else about HIV (information included).Save AIDS Research – their recent, epic 24 hours to Save Research conference with all the latest HIV research is available on YouTube through this site. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The Sunday after Magic Johnson announced his HIV-status, Jim Mitulski preached a sermon on being tired of people dying. We're sharing it as an interlude, a pause, and an immersion into one moment in AIDS' bleak midwinter.  For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/interlude. In the sermon Rev. Mitulski refers to ARC. That means AIDS-Related Complex, a diagnostic category meant to indicate an earlier stage of HIV infection than AIDS. It was common in the period to hear references to both AIDS and ARC.  “Old Devil Time” is by Pete Seeger. The AIDS verses are by MCC San Francisco congregant Paul Francis.  You can see Magic Johnson's press release, announcing his HIV status here.  The biblical passage Rev. Mitulski is preaching on is John 11:1-44. Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen. When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/credits. This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org). Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds. The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco's archive. It was performed by MCC-SF's musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Domestic BGM.  Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible.   Some links to good groups: AIDS Healthcare Foundation – provides medical care and support for people living with HIV/AIDS and preventative care for people at risk for contracting it.  The Magic Johnson Foundation – founded to address HIV/AIDS. Expanded to include education and community engagement.  San Francisco AIDS Foundation – a place to seek information about HIV.  POZ Magazine – a place to learn everything else about HIV (information included).Save AIDS Research – their recent, epic 24 hours to Save Research conference with all the latest HIV research is available on YouTube through this site. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The Sunday after Magic Johnson announced his HIV-status, Jim Mitulski preached a sermon on being tired of people dying. We're sharing it as an interlude, a pause, and an immersion into one moment in AIDS' bleak midwinter.  For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/interlude. In the sermon Rev. Mitulski refers to ARC. That means AIDS-Related Complex, a diagnostic category meant to indicate an earlier stage of HIV infection than AIDS. It was common in the period to hear references to both AIDS and ARC.  “Old Devil Time” is by Pete Seeger. The AIDS verses are by MCC San Francisco congregant Paul Francis.  You can see Magic Johnson's press release, announcing his HIV status here.  The biblical passage Rev. Mitulski is preaching on is John 11:1-44. Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen. When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/credits. This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org). Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds. The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco's archive. It was performed by MCC-SF's musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Domestic BGM.  Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible.   Some links to good groups: AIDS Healthcare Foundation – provides medical care and support for people living with HIV/AIDS and preventative care for people at risk for contracting it.  The Magic Johnson Foundation – founded to address HIV/AIDS. Expanded to include education and community engagement.  San Francisco AIDS Foundation – a place to seek information about HIV.  POZ Magazine – a place to learn everything else about HIV (information included).Save AIDS Research – their recent, epic 24 hours to Save Research conference with all the latest HIV research is available on YouTube through this site. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

San Francisco's gay/lesbian community in the 1980s wasn't just facing an AIDS crisis, they also struggled against ongoing  anti-gay violence. In 1989, in the midst of a campaign to legally establish anti-gay violence as a hate crime, MCC San Francisco made headlines when their AIDS minister was attacked in her home. The city, the police department, and the LGBTQ community rallied around the church and the minister. And when they finally solved the puzzle of who did it, the answer shocked the church.  For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-6. The voices from the service after the first attack include Rev. Troy Perry, Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches – “If you come for one of us, you come for all of us.”  Kevin Calegari, Dignity San Francisco – “Somebody by the name of Jesus…” Harry Britt, San Francisco City Supervisor – “It hurts to be reminded of the power of evil.” Gayle Orr-Smith, representative of the Mayor's Office – “I am moved when I hear you say you are an angry people.”  Rev. Duane Wilkerson, United Methodist Church – “But in the event that doubt has crept into your mind…”  Rev. Troy Perry, Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches – “And to the enemies who are attacking us…” “The Call” is by George Herber with music by Vaughan Williams. The soloist is Bob Crocker. “Nearer My God to Thee” is by Sarah Flowers Abrams. Some links to good groups Community United Against Violence – still working for safe communities for queer people.  National Alliance on Mental Illness LGBTQI Information Page The Shanti Project - is a pioneering nonprofit that builds human connections to reduce isolation, enhance health and well-being, and improve quality of life. It innovated enduring models of attentive companionship to people facing the end of life through their work during the height of the AIDS crisis.  The Trevor Project – the leading suicide prevention and crisis intervention non-profit organization for LGBTQ+ young people.  Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen. Production credits:  When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit http://heavenpodcast.org/credits. This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org). Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds. The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco's archive. It was performed by MCC-SF's musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Domestic BGM.  Special thanks to Kelsy Pacha, Dr. Janis Whitlock, and Dr. Mary Hunt for consulting with us about this episode.  Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

San Francisco's gay/lesbian community in the 1980s wasn't just facing an AIDS crisis, they also struggled against ongoing  anti-gay violence. In 1989, in the midst of a campaign to legally establish anti-gay violence as a hate crime, MCC San Francisco made headlines when their AIDS minister was attacked in her home. The city, the police department, and the LGBTQ community rallied around the church and the minister. And when they finally solved the puzzle of who did it, the answer shocked the church.  For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-6. The voices from the service after the first attack include Rev. Troy Perry, Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches – “If you come for one of us, you come for all of us.”  Kevin Calegari, Dignity San Francisco – “Somebody by the name of Jesus…” Harry Britt, San Francisco City Supervisor – “It hurts to be reminded of the power of evil.” Gayle Orr-Smith, representative of the Mayor's Office – “I am moved when I hear you say you are an angry people.”  Rev. Duane Wilkerson, United Methodist Church – “But in the event that doubt has crept into your mind…”  Rev. Troy Perry, Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches – “And to the enemies who are attacking us…” “The Call” is by George Herber with music by Vaughan Williams. The soloist is Bob Crocker. “Nearer My God to Thee” is by Sarah Flowers Abrams. Some links to good groups Community United Against Violence – still working for safe communities for queer people.  National Alliance on Mental Illness LGBTQI Information Page The Shanti Project - is a pioneering nonprofit that builds human connections to reduce isolation, enhance health and well-being, and improve quality of life. It innovated enduring models of attentive companionship to people facing the end of life through their work during the height of the AIDS crisis.  The Trevor Project – the leading suicide prevention and crisis intervention non-profit organization for LGBTQ+ young people.  Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen. Production credits:  When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit http://heavenpodcast.org/credits. This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org). Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds. The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco's archive. It was performed by MCC-SF's musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Domestic BGM.  Special thanks to Kelsy Pacha, Dr. Janis Whitlock, and Dr. Mary Hunt for consulting with us about this episode.  Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

San Francisco's gay/lesbian community in the 1980s wasn't just facing an AIDS crisis, they also struggled against ongoing  anti-gay violence. In 1989, in the midst of a campaign to legally establish anti-gay violence as a hate crime, MCC San Francisco made headlines when their AIDS minister was attacked in her home. The city, the police department, and the LGBTQ community rallied around the church and the minister. And when they finally solved the puzzle of who did it, the answer shocked the church.  For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-6. The voices from the service after the first attack include Rev. Troy Perry, Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches – “If you come for one of us, you come for all of us.”  Kevin Calegari, Dignity San Francisco – “Somebody by the name of Jesus…” Harry Britt, San Francisco City Supervisor – “It hurts to be reminded of the power of evil.” Gayle Orr-Smith, representative of the Mayor's Office – “I am moved when I hear you say you are an angry people.”  Rev. Duane Wilkerson, United Methodist Church – “But in the event that doubt has crept into your mind…”  Rev. Troy Perry, Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches – “And to the enemies who are attacking us…” “The Call” is by George Herber with music by Vaughan Williams. The soloist is Bob Crocker. “Nearer My God to Thee” is by Sarah Flowers Abrams. Some links to good groups Community United Against Violence – still working for safe communities for queer people.  National Alliance on Mental Illness LGBTQI Information Page The Shanti Project - is a pioneering nonprofit that builds human connections to reduce isolation, enhance health and well-being, and improve quality of life. It innovated enduring models of attentive companionship to people facing the end of life through their work during the height of the AIDS crisis.  The Trevor Project – the leading suicide prevention and crisis intervention non-profit organization for LGBTQ+ young people.  Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen. Production credits:  When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit http://heavenpodcast.org/credits. This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org). Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds. The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco's archive. It was performed by MCC-SF's musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Domestic BGM.  Special thanks to Kelsy Pacha, Dr. Janis Whitlock, and Dr. Mary Hunt for consulting with us about this episode.  Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When Rev. Ron Russell Coons got diagnosed with AIDS he thought a lot about what healing meant when death was certain. He pursued it in his strained and broken family relationships and he preached about it from the pulpit. Though he knew, without a doubt, that he would die from AIDS, Ron claimed that he believed in and had experienced healing. What does healing mean when everybody knows it can't mean survival? Maybe healing is one's biological family and queer kin showing up and reaching for connection across those fractures. For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-5. Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen. When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/credits. This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org). Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds. The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco's archive. It was performed by MCC-SF's musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Domestic BGM.  “When the Roll is Called Up Yonder” is by James Milton Black.  “Give Me Jesus” is a traditional spiritual arrangement by Charles Ivey. The soloist is Maria Barnet.  “It is Well with My Soul,” also known as “When Peace, Like a River,” is by Horatio Spafford. Thanks to  Ron's family for speaking with us on and off the record. We know this was a stretch and we appreciate it. Dr. Joseph Marchal, for helping us understand Ron's “We Have AIDS” sermon and the biblical text it was based on. It'll be a great special episode one day.  Steve Russell for sharing his memories of Ron and his brother, Chuck Russell Coons. Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When Rev. Ron Russell Coons got diagnosed with AIDS he thought a lot about what healing meant when death was certain. He pursued it in his strained and broken family relationships and he preached about it from the pulpit. Though he knew, without a doubt, that he would die from AIDS, Ron claimed that he believed in and had experienced healing. What does healing mean when everybody knows it can't mean survival? Maybe healing is one's biological family and queer kin showing up and reaching for connection across those fractures. For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-5. Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen. When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/credits. This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org). Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds. The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco's archive. It was performed by MCC-SF's musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Domestic BGM.  “When the Roll is Called Up Yonder” is by James Milton Black.  “Give Me Jesus” is a traditional spiritual arrangement by Charles Ivey. The soloist is Maria Barnet.  “It is Well with My Soul,” also known as “When Peace, Like a River,” is by Horatio Spafford. Thanks to  Ron's family for speaking with us on and off the record. We know this was a stretch and we appreciate it. Dr. Joseph Marchal, for helping us understand Ron's “We Have AIDS” sermon and the biblical text it was based on. It'll be a great special episode one day.  Steve Russell for sharing his memories of Ron and his brother, Chuck Russell Coons. Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When Rev. Ron Russell Coons got diagnosed with AIDS he thought a lot about what healing meant when death was certain. He pursued it in his strained and broken family relationships and he preached about it from the pulpit. Though he knew, without a doubt, that he would die from AIDS, Ron claimed that he believed in and had experienced healing. What does healing mean when everybody knows it can't mean survival? Maybe healing is one's biological family and queer kin showing up and reaching for connection across those fractures. For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-5. Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen. When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/credits. This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org). Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds. The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco's archive. It was performed by MCC-SF's musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Domestic BGM.  “When the Roll is Called Up Yonder” is by James Milton Black.  “Give Me Jesus” is a traditional spiritual arrangement by Charles Ivey. The soloist is Maria Barnet.  “It is Well with My Soul,” also known as “When Peace, Like a River,” is by Horatio Spafford. Thanks to  Ron's family for speaking with us on and off the record. We know this was a stretch and we appreciate it. Dr. Joseph Marchal, for helping us understand Ron's “We Have AIDS” sermon and the biblical text it was based on. It'll be a great special episode one day.  Steve Russell for sharing his memories of Ron and his brother, Chuck Russell Coons. Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

As MCC grew as a denomination, they tried to figure out if and how to relate to other churches. Would any befriend a queer church? And if so, would that friendship help other churches shift their perspective on homosexuality? These questions got harder as AIDS numbers grew—it made people more afraid yet friendship more vital. But sometimes friendship emerges in the most unlikely of places. Like when a children's choir visited an AIDS ward in San Francisco and sang for an MCC member there. That connection started a partnership between their churches that changed them both. For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-4. Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen. Production credits:  When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/credits. This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org). Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds. The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco's archive. It was performed by MCC-SF's musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Domestic BGM. “Who Kept Us” is by Dr. Margaret Douroux. “The Wicked Shall Cease” is by Jessy Dixon. “Jesus is Here Right Now” is by Leon Roberts. “Child of God” and “Walk Together Children” are traditional African American spirituals.  Special thanks to Mary Clover Obrzut, Stephen's sister, for insights into his life and for so much great audio. Dr. Cheryl Townsend Gilkes for telling us about Stephen's time at Union Baptist and connecting us with folks there.  Alfred Williams for helping us get connected to Double Rock. Dr. April Parker and Mardy Coates for facilitating the use of “Who Kept Us.”  And to the folks at Double Rock Baptist Church, past and present, especially the beloved Minister of Music.   Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible.   Some links to good groups Balm in Gilead – works to integrate public health and faith principles. It was founded by Dr. Pernessa Seale in to help Black churches address HIV/AIDS and support people and families living with AIDS. Double Rock Baptist Church – is still worshipping and ministering in Bayview/Hunters Point. They were deeply involved in community support during the Covid-19 epidemic.  Love All People – is the ministry that introduced MCC to Margaret Douroux's song, Who Kept Us, to MCC.  National Minority AIDS Council – works for heath equality and racial justice to end the AIDS epidemic. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

As MCC grew as a denomination, they tried to figure out if and how to relate to other churches. Would any befriend a queer church? And if so, would that friendship help other churches shift their perspective on homosexuality? These questions got harder as AIDS numbers grew—it made people more afraid yet friendship more vital. But sometimes friendship emerges in the most unlikely of places. Like when a children's choir visited an AIDS ward in San Francisco and sang for an MCC member there. That connection started a partnership between their churches that changed them both. For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-4. Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen. Production credits:  When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/credits. This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org). Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds. The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco's archive. It was performed by MCC-SF's musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Domestic BGM. “Who Kept Us” is by Dr. Margaret Douroux. “The Wicked Shall Cease” is by Jessy Dixon. “Jesus is Here Right Now” is by Leon Roberts. “Child of God” and “Walk Together Children” are traditional African American spirituals.  Special thanks to Mary Clover Obrzut, Stephen's sister, for insights into his life and for so much great audio. Dr. Cheryl Townsend Gilkes for telling us about Stephen's time at Union Baptist and connecting us with folks there.  Alfred Williams for helping us get connected to Double Rock. Dr. April Parker and Mardy Coates for facilitating the use of “Who Kept Us.”  And to the folks at Double Rock Baptist Church, past and present, especially the beloved Minister of Music.   Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible.   Some links to good groups Balm in Gilead – works to integrate public health and faith principles. It was founded by Dr. Pernessa Seale in to help Black churches address HIV/AIDS and support people and families living with AIDS. Double Rock Baptist Church – is still worshipping and ministering in Bayview/Hunters Point. They were deeply involved in community support during the Covid-19 epidemic.  Love All People – is the ministry that introduced MCC to Margaret Douroux's song, Who Kept Us, to MCC.  National Minority AIDS Council – works for heath equality and racial justice to end the AIDS epidemic. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

As MCC grew as a denomination, they tried to figure out if and how to relate to other churches. Would any befriend a queer church? And if so, would that friendship help other churches shift their perspective on homosexuality? These questions got harder as AIDS numbers grew—it made people more afraid yet friendship more vital. But sometimes friendship emerges in the most unlikely of places. Like when a children's choir visited an AIDS ward in San Francisco and sang for an MCC member there. That connection started a partnership between their churches that changed them both. For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-4. Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen. Production credits:  When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/credits. This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org). Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds. The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco's archive. It was performed by MCC-SF's musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Domestic BGM. “Who Kept Us” is by Dr. Margaret Douroux. “The Wicked Shall Cease” is by Jessy Dixon. “Jesus is Here Right Now” is by Leon Roberts. “Child of God” and “Walk Together Children” are traditional African American spirituals.  Special thanks to Mary Clover Obrzut, Stephen's sister, for insights into his life and for so much great audio. Dr. Cheryl Townsend Gilkes for telling us about Stephen's time at Union Baptist and connecting us with folks there.  Alfred Williams for helping us get connected to Double Rock. Dr. April Parker and Mardy Coates for facilitating the use of “Who Kept Us.”  And to the folks at Double Rock Baptist Church, past and present, especially the beloved Minister of Music.   Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible.   Some links to good groups Balm in Gilead – works to integrate public health and faith principles. It was founded by Dr. Pernessa Seale in to help Black churches address HIV/AIDS and support people and families living with AIDS. Double Rock Baptist Church – is still worshipping and ministering in Bayview/Hunters Point. They were deeply involved in community support during the Covid-19 epidemic.  Love All People – is the ministry that introduced MCC to Margaret Douroux's song, Who Kept Us, to MCC.  National Minority AIDS Council – works for heath equality and racial justice to end the AIDS epidemic. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In the late ‘80s, two MCC San Francisco ministers wrote an article called “We Are the Church Alive, the Church with AIDS.” We wanted to know how a gay/lesbian church came to call itself “a church with AIDS.” The answers lie in the years before our audio archive begins. So we started asking people. We explore two stories in what's likely a more complicated shift. One story is about a pair of religion geeks who learned to make queer church in New York during the early years of the AIDS crisis and then came to San Francisco to lead MCCSF. And the other is how an Easter Sunday ritual made the Christian hope of life through death viscerally real. “We Are the Church Alive, the Church with AIDS,” by Kittredge Cherry and Jamies Mitulski was published in the Christian Century on January 27, 1988. For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-3. Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen. Production credits:  When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit http://heavenpodcast.org/credits. This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the humanities (www.CalHum.org). Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds. The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco's archive. It was performed by MCC-SF's musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Tasty Morsels.  “We See You God” is a variation on the anonymously written hymn “We See the Lord.” The soloist in “I Lift Mine Eyes Up” is Bob Crocker. It's by Antonin Dvorak, Biblical Songs, Op. 99, no. 9 on Psalm 121.  “Hush, Hush. Somebody's Calling My Name” is a traditional African American spiritual.  Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible.   Some links to good groups: The Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco – the congregation's current website.  Metropolitan Community Churches – the denomination of which MCC San Francisco is a part.  San Francisco AIDS Foundation – a place to seek information about HIV.  POZ Magazine – a place to learn everything else about HIV (information included). Save AIDS Research – their recent, epic 24 hours to Save Research conference with all the latest HIV research is available on YouTube through this site.   LGBTQ Religious Archives Network – the place to get lost in LGBTQ+ religious history. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In the late ‘80s, two MCC San Francisco ministers wrote an article called “We Are the Church Alive, the Church with AIDS.” We wanted to know how a gay/lesbian church came to call itself “a church with AIDS.” The answers lie in the years before our audio archive begins. So we started asking people. We explore two stories in what's likely a more complicated shift. One story is about a pair of religion geeks who learned to make queer church in New York during the early years of the AIDS crisis and then came to San Francisco to lead MCCSF. And the other is how an Easter Sunday ritual made the Christian hope of life through death viscerally real. “We Are the Church Alive, the Church with AIDS,” by Kittredge Cherry and Jamies Mitulski was published in the Christian Century on January 27, 1988. For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-3. Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen. Production credits:  When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit http://heavenpodcast.org/credits. This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the humanities (www.CalHum.org). Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds. The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco's archive. It was performed by MCC-SF's musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Tasty Morsels.  “We See You God” is a variation on the anonymously written hymn “We See the Lord.” The soloist in “I Lift Mine Eyes Up” is Bob Crocker. It's by Antonin Dvorak, Biblical Songs, Op. 99, no. 9 on Psalm 121.  “Hush, Hush. Somebody's Calling My Name” is a traditional African American spiritual.  Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible.   Some links to good groups: The Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco – the congregation's current website.  Metropolitan Community Churches – the denomination of which MCC San Francisco is a part.  San Francisco AIDS Foundation – a place to seek information about HIV.  POZ Magazine – a place to learn everything else about HIV (information included). Save AIDS Research – their recent, epic 24 hours to Save Research conference with all the latest HIV research is available on YouTube through this site.   LGBTQ Religious Archives Network – the place to get lost in LGBTQ+ religious history. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In 1993, more than 10 years into the AIDS epidemic, the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco (MCC-SF) tries to remember all they've lost. We think about remembering too after encountering an archive of 1,200 cassette recordings of this queer church's services during the height of the epidemic. Whether you're a regular church goer or would never step into one, we invite you to spend time with this LGBTQ+ San Francisco church as it struggles to reconcile sexuality and faith in the midst of an existential crisis. For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-1.About the montage: The worship service in this episode was on February 28, 1993. The Dyke March proclamation was written and read by Rev. Lea Brown. Rev. Karen Foster read the statement that sexual orientation does not need to be changed. Jim Mitulski recalled his hospital visit with the man who recognized him by his shape. Paul Francis told strangers at a restaurant to get ugly lovers and Eric Rofes told his mother that he was going to stay safe and keep having sex. Cleve Jones had the vision of a thousand rotting corpses, Rev. Ron Russell Coons preached that we have AIDS as a community, and Rev. Troy Perry proclaimed a revival on Eureka Street. The other people heard in the episode are either unknown or did not want to be named.   When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit http://heavenpodcast.org/credits.This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org).Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds.The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco's archive. It was performed by MCC-SF's musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Tasty Morsels. Thanks to Paul Katz and Henry Machen for permission to use “June in San Francisco” from their fabulous 1991 musical Dirty Dreams of a Clean Cut Kid. The estate of Leonard Bernstein for the use of “Somewhere” from West Side Story. Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible.  Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In 1993, more than 10 years into the AIDS epidemic, the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco (MCC-SF) tries to remember all they've lost. We think about remembering too after encountering an archive of 1,200 cassette recordings of this queer church's services during the height of the epidemic. Whether you're a regular church goer or would never step into one, we invite you to spend time with this LGBTQ+ San Francisco church as it struggles to reconcile sexuality and faith in the midst of an existential crisis.  For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-1. About the montage: The worship service in this episode was on February 28, 1993. The Dyke March proclamation was written and read by Rev. Lea Brown. Rev. Karen Foster read the statement that sexual orientation does not need to be changed. Jim Mitulski recalled his hospital visit with the man who recognized him by his shape. Paul Francis told strangers at a restaurant to get ugly lovers and Eric Rofes told his mother that he was going to stay safe and keep having sex. Cleve Jones had the vision of a thousand rotting corpses, Rev. Ron Russell Coons preached that we have AIDS as a community, and Rev. Troy Perry proclaimed a revival on Eureka Street. The other people heard in the episode are either unknown or did not want to be named.    When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit http://heavenpodcast.org/credits. This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org). Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds. The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco's archive. It was performed by MCC-SF's musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Tasty Morsels.  Thanks to Paul Katz and Henry Machen for permission to use “June in San Francisco” from their fabulous 1991 musical Dirty Dreams of a Clean Cut Kid. The estate of Leonard Bernstein for the use of “Somewhere” from West Side Story.  Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible.   Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Co-founder of Not Sorry, Ariana Nedelman, has a new podcast project out today! When We All Get to Heaven is a 10-episode series that tells the story of one of the first gay-positive churches, the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco, and how it faced the personal, social, and political trials of the AIDS epidemic, including the deaths of hundreds of its members.The series is releasing over on Slate's Outward podcast and the second episode is already out. Subscribe to Outward to hear the whole series! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Co-founder of Not Sorry, Ariana Nedelman, has a new podcast project out today! When We All Get to Heaven is a 10-episode series that tells the story of one of the first gay-positive churches, the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco, and how it faced the personal, social, and political trials of the AIDS epidemic, including the deaths of hundreds of its members.The series is releasing over on Slate's Outward podcast and the second episode is already out. Subscribe to Outward to hear the whole series! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In 1993, more than 10 years into the AIDS epidemic, the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco (MCC-SF) tries to remember all they've lost. We think about remembering too after encountering an archive of 1,200 cassette recordings of this queer church's services during the height of the epidemic. Whether you're a regular church goer or would never step into one, we invite you to spend time with this LGBTQ+ San Francisco church as it struggles to reconcile sexuality and faith in the midst of an existential crisis.  For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-1. About the montage: The worship service in this episode was on February 28, 1993. The Dyke March proclamation was written and read by Rev. Lea Brown. Rev. Karen Foster read the statement that sexual orientation does not need to be changed. Jim Mitulski recalled his hospital visit with the man who recognized him by his shape. Paul Francis told strangers at a restaurant to get ugly lovers and Eric Rofes told his mother that he was going to stay safe and keep having sex. Cleve Jones had the vision of a thousand rotting corpses, Rev. Ron Russell Coons preached that we have AIDS as a community, and Rev. Troy Perry proclaimed a revival on Eureka Street. The other people heard in the episode are either unknown or did not want to be named.    When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit http://heavenpodcast.org/credits. This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org). Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds. The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco's archive. It was performed by MCC-SF's musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Tasty Morsels.  Thanks to Paul Katz and Henry Machen for permission to use “June in San Francisco” from their fabulous 1991 musical Dirty Dreams of a Clean Cut Kid. The estate of Leonard Bernstein for the use of “Somewhere” from West Side Story.  Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible.  Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In 1993, more than 10 years into the AIDS epidemic, the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco (MCC-SF) tries to remember all they've lost. We think about remembering too after encountering an archive of 1,200 cassette recordings of this queer church's services during the height of the epidemic. Whether you're a regular church goer or would never step into one, we invite you to spend time with this LGBTQ+ San Francisco church as it struggles to reconcile sexuality and faith in the midst of an existential crisis. For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-1.About the montage: The worship service in this episode was on February 28, 1993. The Dyke March proclamation was written and read by Rev. Lea Brown. Rev. Karen Foster read the statement that sexual orientation does not need to be changed. Jim Mitulski recalled his hospital visit with the man who recognized him by his shape. Paul Francis told strangers at a restaurant to get ugly lovers and Eric Rofes told his mother that he was going to stay safe and keep having sex. Cleve Jones had the vision of a thousand rotting corpses, Rev. Ron Russell Coons preached that we have AIDS as a community, and Rev. Troy Perry proclaimed a revival on Eureka Street. The other people heard in the episode are either unknown or did not want to be named.   When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit http://heavenpodcast.org/credits.This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org).Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds.The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco's archive. It was performed by MCC-SF's musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Tasty Morsels. Thanks to Paul Katz and Henry Machen for permission to use “June in San Francisco” from their fabulous 1991 musical Dirty Dreams of a Clean Cut Kid. The estate of Leonard Bernstein for the use of “Somewhere” from West Side Story. Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible.  Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Why would an out queer person in the Gay Liberation Days of the 1970s go to church? What church would they go to? And why would they stay? In the 1960s, and ‘70s, the separation between God and gays was not as vast as it seemed. Rev. Troy Perry started the first Metropolitan Community Church in his Los Angeles living room. Tired of flying to LA every week, a Navy veteran started the second one in a San Francisco gay bar. And the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco was there for a young lesbian as she navigated spirituality, coming out, and her increasingly conservative family. When her friend got sick, she tried to be there for him. Church helped.       For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-2. Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen. Production credits:  When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit http://heavenpodcast.org/credits. This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the humanities (www.CalHum.org). Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds. The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco's archive. It was performed by MCC-SF's musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Tasty Morsels.  Thanks to Dr. Heather White, author of Reforming Sodom: Protestants and the Rise of Gay Rights. Scott Bloom and Trogoidia Pictures for the use of clips from the film Call Me Troy. The Center for LGBTQ and Gender Studies at the Pacific School of Religion and the Graduate Theological Union for the use of an archival recording of Troy Perry's last sermon as the minister at MCC Los Angeles.  Kirke Machem for the use of his beautiful composition, “Blow Ye, the Trumpet,” from the opera, John Brown. Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Co-founder of Not Sorry, Ariana Nedelman, has a new podcast project out today! When We All Get to Heaven is a 10-episode series that tells the story of one of the first gay-positive churches, the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco, and how it faced the personal, social, and political trials of the AIDS epidemic, including the deaths of hundreds of its members.The series is releasing over on Slate's Outward podcast and the second episode is already out. Subscribe to Outward to hear the whole series! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

When We All Get to Heaven tells the story of one of the first LGBTQ-positive churches, the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco (MCC-SF), and how it faced the personal, social, and political trials of the AIDS epidemic, including the deaths of hundreds of its members. This 10-episode series uses historical tapes rescued from the church to bring listeners into the heart of a community struggling to live while struggling with faith. The first two episodes are available here at Outward on October 15.  This show is produced by Eureka Street Productions. Our theme song, “When We All Get to Heaven,” was written by Eliza Hewitt and performed by MCC-SF's congregation and choir. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.