Podcasts about mcc

Swiss law professor Xavier Oberson discusses with host Dr. Katrina Burrus the experiences and challenges to which he now attributes his successful international law practice. Who is Xavier Oberson? Xavier Oberson is a Professor in Swiss and International Tax Law at the University of Geneva, Switzerland. After his studies at the University of Geneva, he obtained his law degree and his Doctorate in 1990.  He then pursued graduate studies and research at Harvard Law School, where he also completed the International Tax Program (ITP) in 1992. Excellent Executive Coaching Podcast If you have enjoyed this episode, subscribe to our podcast on iTunes. We would love for you to leave a review. The EEC podcasts are sponsored by MKB Excellent Executive Coaching, which helps you get from where you are to where you want to be with customized leadership and coaching development programs. MKB Excellent Executive Coaching offers leadership development programs to generate action, learning, and change that is aligned with your authentic self and values. Transform your dreams into reality and invest in yourself by scheduling a discovery session with Dr. Katrina Burrus, MCC, to reach your goals. Your host is Dr. Katrina Burrus, MCC, founder and general manager of Excellent Executive Coaching, a company that specializes in leadership development.

In this episode, we delve into the intricate world of the Chicago Outfit’s informants, featuring insights from my late friend, Cam Robinson, and Paul Whitcomb, a well-respected expert on the mob. This special compilation draws from past interviews and shorts that once highlighted various informants who operated during the notorious 1980s era of organized crime in Chicago. Through a series of concise segments, we explore the lives of key players who chose to turn against the Outfit, revealing the complex motivations and consequences of their decisions. We kick things off by revisiting the tale of Paul “Peanuts” Pansko, an influential figure leading the Polish faction of the Outfit. Pansko's criminal activities, including a racetrack heist, not only placed him in dangerous territory but also set into motion a chain of events that would later link to the infamous Family Secrets trial. It's during this journey that we outline how interconnected the informants’ narratives are, showcasing how Pansko’s actions inadvertently unraveled parts of the organization.   The discussion shifts to more dramatic stories, including Mario Rainone. Rainone's infamous decision to cooperate with the authorities opened the door to significant revelations about Lenny Patrick, one of the highest-ranking Outfit members to switch sides. Rainone's tapes ultimately led to the dismantling of major sections of the Outfit’s operations, including political connections that had long shielded them from legal repercussions.   We also explore the tale of Ken “Tokyo Joe” Eto, a Japanese mobster who thrived within the Outfit’s ranks. His attempts at self-preservation after surviving an assassination effort highlighted the stark realities faced by those who navigated the perilous landscape of organized crime. As he eventually became a witness for the prosecution, Eto’s insights illuminated the internal workings of one of Chicago’s most feared organizations. The episode further examines dramatic betrayals and deadly encounters that shaped the Outfit’s legacy. From the chilling events surrounding the murders of the Spilotro brothers, orchestrated by their own associates for reasons steeped in loyalty and betrayal, to the grim fate that met informants like Al Toco and the impact of domestic discord on organized crime, each tale is a window into the bleak realities faced by both mobsters and informants alike. As we round out the episode, we reflect on the cultural dynamics surrounding informants, particularly how personal relationships and family ties heavily influenced their decisions to cooperate. It becomes clear through the interviews that while fear of retribution often compels loyalty, the specter of betrayal looms large within the mob. This multifaceted examination blends personal stories with historical context, providing a deeper understanding of the Chicago Outfit’s complexity and its operatives. Join us in this retrospective journey through the shadows of organized crime as we pay homage to those who bravely shared their stories, revealing the inner workings of a criminal empire that continues to fascinate and terrify in equal measure. Hit me up on Venmo for a cup of coffee or a shot and a beer @ganglandwire Click here to “buy me a cup of coffee” Subscribe to the website for weekly notifications about updates and other Mob information. To go to the store or make a donation or rent Ballot Theft: Burglary, Murder, Coverup, click here To rent ‘Brothers against Brothers’ or ‘Gangland Wire,’ the documentaries click here.  To purchase one of my books, click here. Transcript [0:00] Well, hey, guys, after listening to Bob Cooley, one of the more damaging sources and witness and informant to the Chicago Outfit outside of the Calabrese family, [0:13] Nick and his nephew, Frank Jr., I got the rest of the Chicago Outfit informants on tap here. No, not really. They’re not coming in. But I did do a story. I did a series of shorts a few years, or I don’t know, two or three years ago, maybe. [0:32] I interviewed my late friend, Cam Robinson, rest in peace, Cam. So you get to hear from him again. And Paul Whitcomb, who is a Chicago outfit expert, he’s been on this. They used to have some kind of a round table show up there. I don’t know if they still have it or not with the Seiferts. But anyhow, I got these guys to sit down with me and talk about all the different informants in Chicago during the, it was during the 80s. So this is just kind of a series of shorts that I put up before. They’re six or eight minutes long, I think, each one of them, that they talk about different informants. This kind of threw it together as another little bonus episode we’ve done. And I went to Chicago, if you notice, after Johnny Russo, which I apologize for in a way, I don’t know. I mean, the guy’s got some crazy-ass stories, doesn’t he? Who am I to say that he didn’t do it? But most people know that he didn’t do most of that stuff. Anyhow, so I threw up another Chicago right away about the guy that had the race wire that they killed, James Reagan. [1:38] Then i had this interview that i’d been doing during those last couple weeks with bob cooley who’s appeared uh out of nowhere and he’ll maybe see him on some other shows now he’s he’s wanting to do shows he tells me so after hearing bob cooley talk i thought well i’m doing do one more i want to just throw it up as an extra uh from some of my old chicago outfit stuff and that’ll finish me off on the Chicago outfit for a while. I hadn’t, I hadn’t been in Chicago, uh, doing shows about Chicago for quite a while. And, and I didn’t want to, uh, neglect you guys. You know, I get a lot of books written about New York and I’ve got all these authors that are wanting to do these books about New York. Uh, not so much about Chicago. So if you got anybody that, you know, wants to, got a book and wants to come on the show, uh, talking about the outfit, why steer them to me. So anyhow, just sit back and relax and enjoy. [2:37] My late, great friend, Cam Robinson. One more look at Cam, for those of you who remember him, and Paul Whitcomb. And we’re going to talk about famous snitches from Chicago. Thanks, guys. Well, let’s move along now to, this is kind of interesting, Paul Peanuts Panczko, who was the leader of the Polish branch of the outfield. Is that what you would call Peanuts Panczko, the leader of the Polish branch? If the Polish branch is the Panczko family, which you could easily say there were three brothers, then yeah, that wouldn’t be right. We haven’t really done a show on them. I don’t know a whole lot about them other than they were released at all. So we said non-Italian, Peckerwood, as we call them at Kansas City, professional criminals who did a lot of business with different outfit people. And he did a robbery of a racetrack. I think it’s the Balmoral Racetrack. It’s the name of it. James Duke Basile and then Panczko was in trouble for that and he convinced Basile to come in and they did some talking remember anything about that situation, you know in a lot of ways you. [3:50] Panczko could be considered one of the first dominoes that eventually led to the Family Secrets trial. Panczko, as you said, led to Dookie Bazile, who they had done robberies together. Bazile led them to Scarpelli, who was a much higher guy. I mean, there’s debate, but he was, because there was a making ceremony at this time, but Scarpelli was pretty highly ranked. I mean, he was a known killer, and he was up there. He was in the wild bunch. But Scarpelli then did tell them about a lot of the things that Frank Calabrese had done. [4:28] He wasn’t known as well as Scarpelli had brought him up to be. And a lot of those things dominoed into what would eventually lead to family secrets years later. [4:42] Scarpelli, I think, did not know so much about Nick, but he did know about Frank. And so a lot of that information sort of filled in the gaps. And even though Frank Calabrese Jr. Led them led them to Nick They A lot of seeds were planted And can be traced back to Pianus Pansico Um. [5:01] So it is kind of an interesting line. Basile, he wore a wire on Scarpelli and not even talking about a lot of these things. It’s not the FBI knew about that. They were in a car together. Right. If I remember right, he even talked about a mob graveyard. They went up there and they found two or three bodies. One of them was connected. It wasn’t anybody really important, but one of them was connected to Harry Aleman. So it was a pretty important wearing of a wire on Scarpelli, who then came at himself for a while. And that’s what led to the family secrets. He talked about Frank Calabrese. Is that what you’re saying? Yeah, that’s right. And some of those bodies in that graveyard were 10 years apart, which was interesting. I’ve got, it’s on the map that I created, but some of those bodies, there was years in between them. So it was something they were going back to and they believed that there were a lot of things there they did not find. Yeah, because they built a health care facility or something. They built some big building over where there would have been bodies. Right. Right. And the fascinating thing about this is Scarpelli, like, just like Cam said, this guy was a serious killer. He was a muscle builder. He was a terrifying guy. I mean, he had almost inhuman physical strength. Yeah. And when he flipped, he was completely debriefed by the FBI and the DOJ and then decided to try and change his mind. [6:27] But before he could do that He hung himself in the bathroom Of the Metropolitan Correctional Center With his hands behind his back And a bag over his head, Who was he in prison with? Who was he in MCC with, Paul? Was it anybody? He did happen to be in the MCC with the German at the time. He bound his hands behind his back and put a bag over his own head. He did. He did. And so the outfit continues to somehow persuade people to take their own lives rather than testify against them. [7:07] It’s a hell of a way to die by suicide it is by suicide at least they didn’t have arrows in his back, not as far as we know yeah it was terrible he cut his own head off I saw a cartoon once that the homicide guy liked to go ahead and maybe real suckle of suicide because then you could just walk away from it so there’s a dead body laying there with a bunch of arrows at his back and a homicide detective standing over him with a hand and pencil and says, hmm, suicide, huh? [7:44] Got the inside joke. It worked homicide. You see how those guys sometimes will try to make something into a suicide that probably is a homicide. On the other hand, we had one, we had a mob guy, he wasn’t really a mob associate, who had gone to Vegas. He lost a lot of money and they found his body in his car at the airport parking lot after coming back from Vegas and they found out later lost a lot of money and the car was parked up against the fence and he was shot in the head and there was no gun in the car you know found so just assume that somebody shot him in his head the car kept going and rolling up against the fence. [8:25] But this one detective, I remember Bob Pence is his name. He was dumb. And he started, he went back over and he dusted that car for prints again. And he got some more evidence out of it. And then he went back to the airport and he looked and started asking questions. And he found out later that somebody who had a pickup truck parked there had a week later, three or four days later, come back and got his truck. When he got home he found a pistol inside the bed of his truck and he called the airport or he called somebody turned it in Pinson found that pistol that was a pistol that that shot the guy so Pinson's theory was he was rolling along in his car he shot himself in the head and then he flipped that pistol out is with a reaction he flipped it out and went in the bed in that pickup and then it rolled on up against the fence and they ruled it a suicide wow damn that’s not that different than Scarpelli I mean the fbi to this day insists it was suicide yeah well, Oh, well, right. All right. Let’s move along to Mario. John, the arm. Rainone. [9:41] Is that correct, Cam? That yeah, that’s Rainone. Yeah. So tell us about that. I know we talked about this, you know, a little bit about this one. [9:50] This is kind of a funny one. He was he was sent to kill a building inspector. Raynaud was with the Grand Avenue crew and so he’s en route to kill this guy and this is one of those mob blunders and he sees a couple guys following him and it’s Rudy Fredo and Willie Messino and he recognizes him when he’s driving over there and it’s important to point out who these guys are, Cam, not to interrupt you Willie Messino, was the right hand man and bodyguard for Tony Accardo for 30 years I mean, he was serious, serious business. Rudy Frayto, you know, the chin, but Massino was serious news. If you saw Willie Massino, you knew he were in for trouble. Yeah, he wasn’t there as backup to do anything except clean up after Rainone, including Rainone. So Rainone saw the writing on the wall. He pulls up and he goes straight to the FBI. [10:54] And he informs, he talks to them and gives them his information. And later on, he sort of regrets doing so, denies that he ever did. Uh, there were, there were, uh, articles written about him. There’s a, there’s a Chicago Tribune writer, John Cass, and Ray Nolan had a back and forth with him writing letters. This is how these mob guys in Chicago operate, talking about, I’m, I ain’t no beefer. And, uh. Once he was out of prison in 2009, he was busted several more times. If you can believe it, he stayed in the criminal life. He was robbing a liquor store with another guy. And the guy he was robbing with, this is why I jump ahead a little bit, was a guy named Vincent Forliano. He claimed that he didn’t even know Fratto or Messino. These were guys he didn’t know, so he never would have informed against them. The guy he was robbing the liquor store with and he was committing other robberies with, Vincent Forliano, was Fredo’s son-in-law. [11:56] So he was committing robberies with a guy related to the guy, but he didn’t know who they were. And to say that somebody didn’t know, as Paul said, Willie Messino, is just ludicrous. Anybody in the criminal atmosphere, period, knew who Willie Messino was because you were probably paying money to it. to exist. And this is extremely important because Rainone, at the time this happened, Rainone cooperated long enough to record conversations with Lenny Patrick. That’s right. That’s right. And that set dominoes in place that would lead to the fall of the outfit. Even though he tried to take back his cooperation, to say he never cooperated, I’ve heard those tapes that were played in trials that I participated in, so I I know better. Uh, and that’s why they call him Mario flip flop Rainone because he, uh, would cooperate and uncooperate and then cooperate. But he is the one who got Lenny Patrick on the hook. Yeah. [13:00] Interesting, interesting. Let’s just continue on with this Lenny Patrick because we weren’t going to talk about him. That’s a good lead hand to talk about another, really one of the most important informants that year who testified. [13:13] Can you talk about the domino that led to the end? Rainone really, really flipped the domino that kicked over. Go ahead, Paul. Well, Lenny Patrick was the highest, and even to this day, remains the highest ranking member of the outfit to ever turn state’s evidence. The guy was a capo in all but name. He had been in charge of Rogers Park, the gambling. He was essentially the head of the Jewish arm of the mafia, kind of the Meyer Lansky figure of Chicago. And when the Lawndale neighborhood moved north to Rogers Park, he moved with them, and he had his own crew. He reported directly to Gus Alex, who was, of course, at the very top, and Sam Carlisi. And he was dealing with Marcello and Carlesi in a number of different outfit ventures, loan sharking. He personally had been staked by Carlesi with a quarter million in cash to put out on the street. And he was involved in extortions Bombings of theaters All these things directly at the command of Sam Carlisi Who was then the boss of bosses of the Chicago outfit So when Rainone got him on tape They set up what was the beginning of the end for the outfit And I think people need to understand who Gus Alex is also For people outside of Chicago Gus Alex was. [14:40] Basically, I guess you could call him the equivalent of maybe the consigliere in Chicago. When you look at Chicago, the triumvirate in the 70s, once a guy like Paul Ricca died and several major outfit leaders died in the early 70s. [14:58] Tony Accardo decided that the outfit would be led by himself, by Joy Iupa, and the political wing and all of the non-Italians and all of the grift and a lot of aspects would be led by Gus Alex. So he was essentially on the same level as Joey Iupa, and he was responsible for much more for things of greater import than Joey Iupa. I mean, controlling the political arm and all the payoffs and all of that is much, much more than the streets and the murders. So all the politics and all the anything that had to do was definitely fell under gus alex and he was part of a ruling triumvirate he was a non-italian part of a ruling triumvirate with iupa and uh acardo so he was the the leader top of the outfit and he had been for years going back to going back to the 30s and the 40s 40 he had come up under, the Murray the Camel Humphreys and had made those connections he was the most connected guy in the Chicago outfit, so for a guy like Lenny Patrick to be. [16:15] Rollover against is essentially the political leader, national political leader and political leader of Chicago. This was absolutely crippling to the outfit. That was he wiped out the entire political arm of the Chicago outfit. After Lenny Patrick brought down Gus Alex, this became a basically a street crime organization. It was that those political contacts. I mean, I think that’s a fair statement, right, Paul? Those political contacts and judges, I mean, that was all but eliminated with Gus Alex going away. You’re absolutely right, Cam. And he not only took out Gus Alex, but he took out the boss of the Italians, too. That’s right, yeah. Both of them at the same time. He wiped out the outfit, and you put it beautifully by saying it became a street crime organization. You think about the division of labor and it started with IUP and IUP and. [17:19] La Pietra, Jackie Cerone, they had all the gambling, a lot of the sports gambling, but they also had the skim from Las Vegas, and they ran all that stuff, while Gus Alex, along with Lenny Patrick, ran all that politics, and you can’t have a mob organization if you don’t have cover politically. That’s why even in Kansas City, we’re pretty clean here, but we still never had any real mob prosecutions. [17:47] And it certainly had very few, if any, little, if any mob prosecutions at Cook County. And you couldn’t even get convicted of a real crime, murder, assault, or something. It’s just a straight-out crime. You weren’t even trying to do a RICO, I think, on anybody. So it was, you know, they just operated with impunity. Well, you took out that whole gambling side. That was all the money coming in. And then shortly thereafter, you take out the political side, who then turns back and gets the new boss on the gambling side and loan sharking and all that. [18:23] I’ll tell you, by 1990, the outfit’s gone. It really is. It still exists to a degree, but Sam Carlisi was the last traditional old line boss of the outfit. you, that, in my opinion, that ever ruled. After that, it was never the same. Yeah, I think a guy like Gus Alex, you know, like you said, Gary, you had Aiuppa who was dealing with gambling, but I think that’s a lot of, there’s a lot of optics to that, you know, and you’ve got all these cities who have got characters who are not Italian, Gus Alex in Chicago, and, you know, as Paul said, Meyer Lansky, who was New York, and you had Mashie Rockman in Cleveland, and these characters not italians so they know when to step back and let and let the italians talk but that doesn’t mean that they’re not running things it’s just for the optics of city to city where the italians have to see that they’re dealing with italians they don’t walk in the room it doesn’t mean that behind the scenes they’re not pulling the levers they just because of of the uh uh criminal um. [19:34] The the criminal view of of non-italians in that world sort of sort of their own prejudices these guys don’t always walk in the room when they’re dealing with other cities gus alex is is sitting down with anybody in chicago but you go to kansas city you go to new york, you know meyer lansky would leave the room when they were when they were talking you know italian to Italian. And the same thing with Gus Alex or Mace Rockman or any of those other guys who are not Italian. It was just an optics city to city. It doesn’t mean that they weren’t pulling the levers. Is it Yehuda or Jehuda, Cam? Jehuda. I’ve always heard of Jehuda. Yeah, Jehuda. So he kind of dealed with the IRS that year. [20:23] He must have had some. The IRS was really strong working the mob in Chicago. I’ve noticed several references to IRS investigations. We did not have that in Kansas City, and the IRS did a little bit, but they were not as strong as they were up in Chicago. [20:38] Yeah, he met with an agent, Tom Moriarty, who’s been around and worked Chicago for a long time. He was a pretty well-known guy up here. But Bill Jehota worked under Ernest Rocco Infelice, who was a real powerhouse going back a long time. And out in Cicero, and his crew, a lot of these crews had their own little names, and they called the good shit Lollipop. He was a huge gambling enterprise, you know. And they bought a house up in Lake County, which is north of the city. It’s funny, this house they bought was actually the family that had lived in it. The son had murdered the family. It was a murder house before the outfit bought it. and uh they bought it used it as a as a gambling den and and after that moved out they used it for prostitution and they would park cars at a nearby motel that they ran and then then have a uh a, valet service that drove him to this this gambling house and there was also quite a few uh murders that uhJahoda witnessed i’m sure he took no part in it he just happened to be standing outside of the house when they when they these murders were committed there was a uh was it hal smith and um. [21:57] Oh i can’t remember the they killed somebody else in this home and they burnt these were guys who didn’t want to pay his tree tags, and they were gamblers who refused to give in. And he brought down this entire crew. I mean, Rocco and Felice was… There’s a famous picture of the day after the Spolatros were killed. And it was really the upper echelon of the up that you’ve got. You’ve got little Jimmy Marcello. You’ve got the boss, Sam Wings-Carlesi. You’ve got the street boss, Joe Ferriola. And you’ve got Rocco and Felice, who’s right there. These are the four top guys, basically, in the outfit as far as at this time, the Cicero crew had risen to the top. That was the powerhouse crew. And so he was involved in those discussions because he was such a powerhouse out there with Ferriola being the street boss. So he was, it really can’t be thatJahodatestimony that eventually brought down this crew was really, it really crippled that crew for a long time. Well, those people that went down in that trial have only in the last five years come out of prison. Yeah, we’ve actually had been talking to somebody. We’ve had the… [23:13] Opportunity to meet he brought down uh uh robert um to go beat um bellavia and another guy who doesn’t like to be mentioned who runs a pretty successful pizza pizza chain up in lake county and uh these guys went down for a long time the beat was down for 25 years and he just came out. [23:39] So and billJahoda have if you read his testimony it is kind of kind of odd that he was standing outside of the building and just looked in the window and they were committing a murder and he just he he places himself outside of the house witnessing a murder through the window which is convenient when you’re the one testifying against murderers it certainly is yeah. [24:03] So so that was he was involved in the gambling so that makes sense then the irs got him and millions of dollars millions of dollars a month they were bringing and he met uh, i don’t remember paul and you did he he contacted moriarty right or did moriarty reach out to him because he was under investigation i i thought Jahoda was was worried about himself so he reached out to them i can’t remember the details i think you’re right yeah i i think he was worried about his own his own safety gary and he reached out to moriarty and they met up at a hotel just outside the city on the uh up in the northwest and uh they talked about things i actually found the location and on the little map you can find where where they met each other but he they met each other in disgust and they would meet different locations and and jahuda wore a wire and some of those some of those wiretaps are they really make for that. [25:05] That those conversations come right out of the movie just i love what we’re doing out here and i love my job and and you actually where i’m going to make you trunk music i mean you really hear these things that that you see it right in the movies i mean you you can’t write the dialogue that these guys are actually using it’s it’s it’s you know it it comes straight out of a book i mean You’ve got, you’ve got, uh, this is the toughest dialogue you’ll ever hear. Interesting. How’d you buy it? Where’d you find that at? Is that, uh, it’s probably not the audio in probably anywhere. No book or something. Yeah. You can, if you look up, if you look up different, different, you know, you go on newspapers.com or you go in different, uh, I believe, uh, I’ve got, um, uh, mob textbook by, um, Howard Abedinsky. I’ve got a couple of copies of his, of his textbook, organized crime. And he’s got some clips of it. This guy who owns a pizza shop up north is talking about how he loves his job. He loves what he does. And it’s funny to hear he talk about smashing somebody and loving what you do. Really? I’ve heard a few conversations like that back at the station house. [26:25] I don’t care. It’s on both sides. Is that what you’re saying? When you live in that world. Those guys can go either direction. [26:37] Well, let’s talk about ex-Chicago cops. Speaking of cops, let’s talk about, Vince Rizza, his daughter actually appeared on that Chicago Mob Housewives, or they tried to do a show. And Frank Schweiss’ daughter was on it. And Pia Rizza, who has gotten some notoriety as a model or something, I can’t remember. And she really, she was tight. She would not talk about her dad at all. I read an interview of her. She would just talk about her dad at all. But he came in and he testified against Harry Aleman, of all people, and linked him to the murder of this bookie, Anthony Ritlinger. Remember that one? [27:22] Go ahead, Paul. No, that one I’m not very up on, Cam. I’m sorry. So, Ritlinger, I believe he didn’t want to pay his street tax, if I’m right, Gary. Yeah, you’re right. He had been warned. Rattlinger had been warned that he needs to pay, he needs to pay, and he was making a good deal of money. And Ratlinger was he was brought in just the normal course of action with the wild bunch because he was a wild bunch murder I’m a little rusty but here it comes so he was a wild bunch killing, he was brought in he was warned it was the typical Harry Ailerman and if I’m remembering correctly and people correct me if I’m not it was Butch Petruccelli they sat him down. [28:11] Usually it would be Butch and, um, uh, Borsellino who would do the talking, uh, Tony Borsellino, and they would do the talking. And then afterwards, Butch Petruccelli would just sit down and glare. So he was a pretty scary guy. And he had that, uh, uh, Malocchio, the, the evil eye, and he would just glare at people. And that would send the message and Rattlinger didn’t, didn’t listen. He was making too much money, he’s not going to pay any damn Degos, that kind of line. And so he, of course, fell victim to these guys. And I believe he may have been trunk music. I think I remember this one, Matt, but I can’t remember. Yeah, I got this one. He went to a restaurant. That’s right. That’s right. And he had already, his daughter lived with him. I’m not sure about the wife, but he had warned his family to take all kinds of extra cautious. He knew something was coming. And it was, you know, after reading that thing, it’s, It’s kind of like, well, we talked about Spilotro taking off their jewelry. Ken Eto did this similar kind of a thing and told his wife he may not be coming back. [29:22] I tell you, another guy that did the same thing was Sonny Black. That’s right. It came out about Joe Pistone, the Donnie Brasco story. He did the same thing. He went to a sit-down or a meeting, and he took off his jewelry, I believe left his billfold, when he went to the meeting. this. Ken Eto was the same way. Ken Eto, I think, thought he could talk his way out. I think all of them thought they could talk their way out of it. So Rettlinger went out by himself and sat in a prominent place in this local restaurant that was really well known up there in the north side. It’s north of downtown Chicago, and I can’t remember the name of it. [30:02] And he just sat there and pretty soon a car pulls up and two guys run in kind of like a Richard Cain kind of a deal and just start popping. And that was a Harry Aleman deal. That’s right. He did, I believe. There’s an old guy who married the girlfriend of Felix Adlericio, I believe. He and this woman are sitting out in front of their brownstone, and Aleman and some other dude pull out and get out when guys walk up to him and shoot him and kill him. [30:31] And so that was – Yeah, that was Petrocelli and Aleman walked up, And he had been, he had been dating, uh, uh, Aldericio’s, Alderico’s girlfriend. Now that’s the famous hit from beyond the grave. Because we’re going to go on the old Samuel’s just sitting in the lawn chair thinking he’d got it made. That’s right. You know, Gary, you and I did the show on the outfit, uh, a long time ago. No, I’m sorry. On the wild bunch, a long time ago. So a lot of those, and they did so much work back in the day. A lot of those run together, but yeah, you’re now, uh, now that you’re right, writing her was he was eating in a restaurant. I’m, Uh, I can’t remember the name. It may have been, been Luna’s, but he was, went out in public. He thought he’d be safe. And like you said, a lot of these guys have a six cents because they come up on the street and they know these things. And, uh, like a guy like Sammy and Reno knew it was coming. He was dodging them for a long time, but they, they know that their time is coming. Eventually they just, they stay ahead of it for a while and figure they can fight their way out or talk their way out. And yeah, they, he was blown away right in public. Like it was similar to the, I remember it being similar to the, to the Richard Cain murder. And this was in, it was right around the same time. It was, it was in the mid seventies, 75, 74, 75, 76. It might’ve been 75 that writing or happened right, right in the middle of the restaurant. [31:58] I’ve been a lot cheaper to pay the street tax, I reckon. You know, and it wasn’t, I don’t recall that they’re asking for so much, but once these murder started happening yeah i think it was it wasn’t like it was half or 75 i think they just wanted it was you know it might have been a quarter it might have just been a flat fee across the board but once that street tax was was instituted i mean we’ve talked about this before gary that was when the wild bunch was out there that was that was they really didn’t play around When Ferriola told these guys, get everybody in line, [32:31] they really cracked down and they weren’t playing at all. You pay or you die. And guys like Alem and Patrick Shelley, whether it was right in public or whatever, in the outfit in the 70s, Paul, you know this from Richard Cain and several others. They just write in public would just blow you away. and writing her was just was almost textbook just like the Richard Cain it was it was right in the right in the restaurant yeah I’ll tell you I’ll tell. [33:05] I was conflating him with Hal Smith. Okay. I’ll tell you something about those mob hits. When they kill somebody in public like that in a public way, more than likely it’s because whoever the victim is has been alerted, and they can’t get anybody to get close to them. They will already try to send somebody around to get them isolated, and when they can’t get them isolated, then they want them bad enough. They’ll just lay, as Frank Calabrese, I heard him say once, well, lay on them. And I thought, oh, that’s interesting. Well, lay on them. I read that somewhere else. They use that term when you’re following somebody and you’re trying to set them up, or yet they lay on them. Calabrese even said, you know, you’re like, get an empty refrigerator box and hide inside of it. I mean, it’s just like the kind of stuff we used to do at the intelligence unit to run surveillances on people. And so they’ll lay on them for a while until they can get you somewhat isolated. And if they can’t, then they’ll just take you out in public. It might be to send a message, but I don’t think so because it’s so risky to get somebody in public. You can have a young, all-fitty cop in there that you didn’t even notice, and he comes out blazing. And, you know, it’s just not worth it. Even if you take him out, he’s probably got to get you. [34:21] So it’s kind of a last resort. A desperation. Yeah, it’s desperation because they can’t get you isolated. [34:28] You look at some of these public murderers, guys like Richard Cain or Ridinger, like you said, who was on the watch. Sam Annarino, who was right on Cicero. [34:39] A guy like Chris Carty, who was years later. I mean, these are guys who would have been smart enough and street smart enough to be on the watch, to watch their step, to know what was going on. With the exception of a guy like Michael Cagnoni, who just happened to be difficult to get, and he probably might have had an idea that something was happening, but I think just he was a family guy, and so it was hard to isolate. They blew him up on the interstate, but I think that in general, that’s a good point, Gary. These guys, if they just run up and blow away, it’s just a last resort. That’s an excellent point. I have always been in that camp of, oh, that must be sending a message. But you, with your experience, I think you’re exactly right. One thing, guys, I think we’re mixing up Sambo Cesario with Sam Annarino. I was thinking when they – yeah, you’re right, Paul. I was thinking, though, when they blew away Sam Annarino in the parking lot with his family, though, they had been trying to get him for several months. And they finally just went after him in the parking lot, called in a robbery, and blew him away in the furniture store parking lot. That was what I meant. Yeah, Gary was referring to Sambo earlier. I just meant they had been trying to get Sam Annarino for a long time, and when they couldn’t, they just got him in the parking lot. [36:08] Well, interesting. You know, no matter how much terror these guys strike in the heart of their underlings, in the end, they still will turn once in a while. And I think people don’t really not turn because they’re afraid of getting killed so much if they don’t turn because they don’t want to have their family suffering the disgrace of them being a rat or a snitch. I think that’s more important to be a man and go out like a man in this subculture and believe me I’ve lived in a subculture where being a man and being a tough guy is more important than anything else, I think that’s the most important thing that keeps people from coming in you’re like a wimp you’re a puss, you can’t take it, can’t handle it you know what I mean you can’t handle five years I could do five years standing on my head or a tray like the dude told me so uh you know but even even with all that and still there’s a certain percentage that will end up coming in sure and usually there are people that either don’t care about their family like lenny patrick yeah or that don’t have close family so that they don’t have it so much of that pressure that you’re talking about gary because you make a really valid point that that that cultural value is so strong yeah yeah it’s it’s. [37:36] In a lot of these small towns, you see in Detroit where they’re all family tied in and everything, you don’t see informants. I think they’ve had one. Kansas City, as you said, Gary, you don’t see. But then you look at a place like Rochester where they’re all just lower tier mob guys. Everybody was informing on everybody because they really weren’t as upper echelon sort of mob guys. So I think that, like you said, once you get that culture seeped in, you’ve got those families and all, there’s a lot of factors. But if it’s a deep-rooted mob town, you really don’t see a lot of real informants. [38:11] So, guys, now we’ve got one that I did a show on. I did a couple of shows on him. I talked to the FBI agent who brought him in and dealt with him for quite a while. Ken Tokiojo Eto. He survived a murder attempt. When that didn’t happen for him with the outfit, what happened after that? [38:32] I believe his attempted assassins got killed themselves. So tell me a little bit about Tokyo Joe Eto. There’s a photograph I have from the late 50s, early 60s And it shows Joe Ferriola And a couple of other heavyweights Hanging around with a young Ken Eto, And a lot of people didn’t know who Ken Eto was But he ran the Japanese game, Gambling, Bolita And lots of money Poured into the outfit through Tokyo Joe As they called him And there was a rumor that perhaps Tokyo Joe was going to turn under a little bit of pressure. And so Jasper Campisi put three slugs in the back of his head. [39:22] Miraculously, he survived three slugs at point blank range. And if he wasn’t going to turn state’s evidence before, he certainly had a powerful incentive to do so now. He seems to insist As I’ve heard that he was not His intention was not It’s hard to say at this point But he says he had no intention Of flipping and that he’s not sure What the evidence was against him But he was not going to flip until, It was Yeah. [39:55] I’m drawing a blank, Paul. Who was it that sent? It wasn’t the saint. It was Vincent Solano. He was kind of Vincent Solano, who was a union guy and a made guy up there. He kind of had which one. [40:11] He was a capo. And which crew was it? Do you remember? He was on the north side. North side crew. North side crew. And actually, Ken went to Vince Solano and had a talk with him. Said you know what i can do this he was looking at a tray i had a dude tell me what’s that pressure and tried to get him to talk and he said uh he said what am i gonna get out of this a tray he said man i can do a tray standing on my head and i threw him right then that’s right gotta talk to me so uh and that’s all he had to do but solano for some reason uh who knows what was in his head because uh ken Eto had made him a lot of money a lot of money and he was a tough little dude he had he had survived he had been put in the uh concentration camps if you will during the internment camps yeah internment camps and then came as a young man up chicago and been around for a long time by the time this all came down he’d been with him for a long time and made him a lot of money and all kinds of different gambling operations but particularly the bolita. [41:13] So uh it just didn’t make sense i heard one thing that these guys in chicago got the idea Yeah, to keep the noise down, they were loading their own rounds with lighter loads of powder. I don’t know. They had like a hit car up there. The guys in Chicago were pretty sophisticated or tried to be. And so they used these lighter loads. And when it went into his head, it just didn’t penetrate his skull. I remember I was at the hospital once, and there was a young guy who had gotten shot in the head. And they said that the bullet was not a good bullet because it went in under his skin and then went under his scalp, along his skull, and then lodged up on his forehead. [41:56] Wow. And so Eto was kind of the same way. Those bullets were probably lodged up underneath his scalp. He pulled himself to a neighboring, I believe it was a pharmacy that was right there, a corner store. And then that guy went to help him. I think he had to dial a call of 911 or whatever. 911 was in place then. He had to call for help for himself from a phone booth. You know, he saved his own life by being smart and playing dead. Yeah, that’s right. And you look at Chicago, it’s a city of neighborhoods, and you’ve got the Mexican town, and you’ve got the different towns, and you’ve got Chinatown where there’s so much money and so much gambling. And while Haneda was Japanese and there’s obviously division between Japanese and Chinese, it would be much easier for him to go in and then some of these outfit guys and because of different things going on back in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. But he could go into neighborhoods and represent the outfit in ways in different communities that the outfit wouldn’t go into or a lot of these made guys. [43:12] And that gave him entry into a lot of communities. In the Asian community, there’s a lot of gambling that he was able to tap into. He was smart enough to see that as a route that maybe the Italian guys didn’t, just like Lenny Patrick, who we’ve talked about in other episodes, had that access into the Jewish communities and other Jewish gangsters. There’s a lot of gambling there. If you can get somebody who has an in to different communities, that’s really a way to go and that’s part of why he made so much money. A game like BolEto wouldn’t normally be and that’s huge in the Hispanic communities and huge with Asians also. You know in kansas city that’s interesting that you should point that out camp we had a um large vietnamese community moved in after the the boat peoples when it started and they moved in through the same church uh. [44:09] Sacred Heart Church and Don Bosco Center that the Italians moved in, the Sicilians moved into back in the turn of the century, the same neighborhoods. And Italians are getting successful and they’re moving out the suburbs and the Vietnamese are moving in and creating the Vietnamese restaurants and Vietnamese shops. And they brought, they have a love for gambling. Like you said, they have huge love for gambling. They don’t drink so much or do so many drugs, but they do love to gamble, it seemed to me like. [44:36] And so they had their own book. he was called the king a guy a friend of mine told me a story uh there’s a mob book he got on the periphery that neighborhood’s got a joint and he he was running a sports book and he had a lot of action going in and out of his joint so this one vietnamese guy had a big debt owed to the king so he goes down and talks to this guy’s name was Larry Strada, he ends up getting killed by some other uh mobsters in a deal they thought he was going to testify but i just needed to hear are there, this young, middle-aged Vietnamese guy goes down to the Caddyshack, Larry Strada’s bar. And he starts telling him about the king. He said, man, he said, the king, you take all your business. He said, he got all business down here. He take all your business. He said, you know, you need to do something about the king. He said, you know, we’re close to the river here. And then he made a motion across his throat like he was cutting his throat. So he was trying to get out of his gambling debt to convince this Italian, La Cosa Nostra bookie to go back and kill me yeah king piano. [45:42] You know i’ve heard a lot of stories and some of them are true some are not that one had to ring a truth to it it had a definite ring of truth that that got to do that playing them against each other yeah you bet and you know another thing about tokyo joe and you know he could testify But Ben Solano had Campizé and Gattuso killed right away. Found them in the trunk of their car, I think. Maybe at the airport, even. [46:09] Chicago trunk music, but they have some saying like that. And so Solano knew that they could testify against him, and they didn’t want to go down for attempted murder, more than likely, and he just didn’t take a chance. So he had them killed, and I can’t remember if he went down behind this or not. But another thing Tokyo Joe was able to do, I mean, he certainly could expose all the inner workings of what he knew about to the FBI, which gives you a lot of tips on where to go, who to work on, and maybe where to throw up microphones or some wiretaps. But he also traveled around he came to Kansas City during the skimming trial because they’re working on the Chicago hierarchy. So they just fly him into town. They show him that picture, the last separate picture where everybody’s in the picture. And they say, now, who’s that? Oh, that’s Aiuppa. Okay, then who’s that? Oh, that’s Vince Solano. Yeah, he reports to Aiuppa. You know, and who’s that guy? I can’t remember the other people at all. So the nation said that Joe is up hard. Oh, yeah, he reports to this guy. So to show the organization of the mob in Chicago and that it is an organization that gives orders to have other people carry it to make the RICO case, that he was a storyteller for that. And he didn’t know anything about the skim at all. But he was a storyteller on getting the mob name and the organization in front of a jury. That’s huge, as you know, Paul. [47:35] Absolutely. We had a similar arrangement during the Carlesi trial about how [47:40] the Carlesi crew operated and who was who, and to tell the story. Yeah. You have to make it a story. Let’s take a look at Betty Toco, which, uh, this is pretty interesting. There was a, um, I’m not sure. Albert Toco was your husband. Remind me what his position was at the outfit at that time. So Al Toco was, there’s sort of a division on who was the leadership of, who was the central leader of Chicago Heights. There’s Dominic Tuts Palermo and Al Toco, who was really a powerhouse in Chicago Heights. And Tuts Palermo was definitely highly connected and across the pond too, also in Italy. But uh Toco was involved in the in the chop shop wars really really heavily involved and he had a lot of connections in chicago too he was involved with lombardo and a lot of these chop shops throughout chicago he had a lot of partnerships and so this was a 30 million dollar a year racket stolen cars chop shops international car rings uh car rings throughout stolen car rings throughout the country. Toco was responsible for burying the Spolatro brothers. It was very sectioned off. Each crew had a part in their murder. And then Chicago Heights was responsible for the burial. [49:02] And they were down in Enos, Indiana. They got kind of turned around a little bit. They were down a farm road. They were burying them in a freshly tilled field. And the road where they’re on, there’s a little side road that you would drive down. There’s very little down there. I’ve, I’ve seen it, but a car happened to come down middle of night and they were in a, there’s a, there were a couple of feet off of a wooded area and they see this car coming down and they sort of all panicked and before they had a chance to cover the area or really do anything, it just looked like a freshly dug, it really just looked like freshly dug mound. And so they all fled and three of Toco’s guys went one way and he went the other. They had the car in both radios. [49:46] He’s wandering around barefoot, and he calls his wife finally. She shows up, and he’s screaming and yelling. And he runs to Florida, and he’s waiting for permission to come back from Joe Ferriola. He’s worried he’s going to get killed because they find the Spallachos immediately because the farmer sees his field all messed up, freshly tilled ground, and it looks really suspicious, like somebody had been poaching deer and burying the carcass. Uh but Toco was a tyrant to his wife he was he was horrible to her he was he was when you think of what a mob guy was that was Toco you know tipping the guy who mows his lawn the kid who mows his lawn hundred bucks and wandered around town everybody knows him but he’d come home and unlike a lot of these guys he was he was a real you know a real. [50:36] Real bastard to his wife you know and for years she put up with this sort of abuse and finally after this this happened and it was in the news and all he finally pushed her too far and she began informing on him and and he was arrested later on he was in his jail cell talking about all the murders he had committed and and this and that about his wife and uh his his uh uh A cellmate repeated everything that he said to try and lessen his sentence. So really, Toco got buried by his big mouth and his terrible behavior. He initially fled to Greece before he was arrested, and they extradited him back from Greece. So this is, I mean, Toco is like deep in mob behavior. [51:22] I mean, fleeing the country and all. I mean, it doesn’t get much more mafia than Al Toco. I hesitate to use that word with Chicago, but that was, Al Toco was running deep. and that Betty Tocco’s testimony eventually led to the trial of Al Tocco. And that was really a blow to the Chicago Heights crew that nowadays, I mean, they continued on and had a few rackets, but after the eventual trial that stemmed from that, it really wasn’t, there’s not much activity now. I’m in that area and there’s just, there’s really nothing here. [51:59] Interesting. Now, so Tony and Michael Spilotro had been lured to somebody’s house on the promise that Michael was going to be made. It’s my understanding. I believe that’s what Frank Collada had reported. And some other people, not part of the Chicago Heights crew, killed him. How did that go down? And how did they pass off the body? You guys, is there anything out there about that? Wasn’t that the family secrets trial, maybe? It was. And, of course, it’s been popularly portrayed in the movie Casino. And it’s surprisingly accurate Except for the fact That where they were beaten But what happened was Little Jimmy Marcello called them. [52:41] And said Sam, meaning Sam Carlisi, the boss, wanted to see them. And they knew that that was ominous because of what was going on beyond the scope of this show. But they took off the jewelry. They left. They told their wives, if we’re not back by 930, it’s not good. They really did not suspect that it was to make Michael. That’s what Collada said. You’re absolutely right about that, Gary. But I don’t think that’s correct at all. They knew that it was bad. And they went. He took a pistol, which was against the rules. They hit him a pistol. Tony hit a pistol on his brother, which you do not do when you go to see the boss. And they were picked up by, by Marcello and taken to a house. I, uh, was it Bensonville? Yeah. Up in Bensonville. Uh, in, in the basement, they walked down the stairs and all of a sudden they looked into the eyes of Carlici and, uh, DeFranzo and everybody, the whole, all the couples were there to spread the, the, uh, liability around and they were beaten to death with, with fists and feet, uh, in, in that basement and then transported to that burial ground, which coincidentally was just maybe a couple hundred yards away from Joey Aupa’s farm. [54:00] Right. So I guess that they must have had, uh, Toco standing by, because I don’t believe he was in that basement. I like that. He must have had him standing by to go grab the bodies and take them out. Really interesting. He should have had the old Doug before he got there. You know, that’s what they always say. First you dig the hole then you go do the murder right and i don’t think he had it done before he got there yeah i don’t i really that’s a good that’s a good point gary i really don’t know and nobody’s ever come forward to say what the status of the hole was beforehand uh you know it was a deep it was a deep it was it was a pretty deep hole uh but they may have had a dug ahead of Tom, but, but, uh, cause they knew the location and it’s pretty obscure location. So they had clearly been there before. And, and, you know, everybody knew that that was, I, I hope was, I got it right. Farm. And, uh, So they may have had it dug, and they just did a shoddy job covering it up. [55:05] But I also haven’t heard the specific details about how they handed it off to Toco. I don’t recall seeing that in Calabrese’s testimony. Yeah, it was Nick Calabrese that testified about that. It brought up the light. He named the killer. So he may not have gone that far, probably having Toco and having his wife testify that he did do this. that she picked him up out there. It was just a piece of the entire prosecution on the spot, which it really never was a trial or anything on that. I don’t believe. Another odd thing is he, I believe he ranted and raved the entire car ride back. And from where he was, you would run up with, It’s now turns into Indianapolis. So it’s a good car ride from where they were to Chicago Heights. I believe he ranted and raved about the guys and his crew and the burial and everything, the entire car ride, which was not something most guys would do in front of their wives. But I really, especially when he treated like that. Right. And complained about how long it took her to get there and everything. So she was able to verify a lot of what Calabrese was saying from the final end of it. Interesting. A friend of mine was in the penitentiary, and he said, there’s a guy in there who called himself a verifier. He said, what do you mean? He said, I’m a professional verifier. What he was, he was an informant. That’s what he was, but he called himself a verifier. [56:33] A girl would come to him and say, well, I heard this, this, and this. Is that true or not? He’d say, well, that’s true. That’s not true. [56:40] I guess that’s a more preferable term. Yeah, she was a verifier. Well, that was great. I really appreciate having that on there and Paul. And I really, I still miss Cam. Every time I get ready to do a Chicago show, I think, oh, I want to get Cam or Rochester. [56:58] We did one about Rochester. We did one about Utica. I did several other shows about other families. And he was a good guy and a real great researcher and a real expert on the outfit and other mafia families. So rest in peace, Cam and Paul. I hope to talk to you again one of these days. Guys, don’t forget, I got stuff to sell out there. Just go to my website or just search on my name for Amazon. I can rent my movies about the skim in Las Vegas, about the big mob war between the Savella brothers and the Spiro brothers in Kansas City. Then one about the great 1946 ballot theft in which the mob… Rigged election, helped Harry Truman rig an election. It’s a little harder to find than mine. You need to put ballot theft and Gary Jenkins. I think you’ll find it then. The other two, Gangland Wire and Brothers Against Brothers, Sabella Spiro, were a little bit easier to find. Had to put it up a different way because Amazon changed the rules, but I got them up there. So thanks a lot, guys.

From Ruins to Renewal | Returning from Exile - Davide Colletta by MCC

Ever find yourself stuck in drama, reacting before you think, or feeling powerless in situations you care about?  In this episode of The Greatness Machine, Donna Zajonc dives deep into the Drama Triangle and its positive alternative, The Empowerment Dynamic (TED). She and Darius explore how cultivating awareness, clarifying intention, and practicing self-compassion can turn automatic reactivity into conscious leadership and personal growth. Donna shares practical strategies for recognizing when we fall into victim, persecutor, or rescuer roles, and how to shift into creator, challenger, or coach roles that empower both ourselves and others. Whether in family life, friendships, or at work, these tools offer a roadmap to more meaningful, effective, and empowered interactions. In this episode, Darius and Donna will discuss: (00:00) Introduction to the Empowerment Dynamic (02:35) Donna Zajonc's Journey and Background (05:34) The Drama Triangle Explained (08:26) The Empowerment Dynamic Framework (11:23) Understanding the Roles in the Drama Triangle (14:15) Shifting from Drama to Empowerment (16:50) The Importance of Awareness and Choice (19:59) Leadership and the Empowerment Dynamic (22:39) Challenging vs. Persecuting Roles (27:29) The Power of Words and Personal Growth (29:12) Understanding the Drama Triangle (31:07) Shifting from Persecutor to Challenger (33:06) The Role of Intention in Communication (34:54) Curiosity as a Tool for Growth (37:00) Navigating the Rescuer Role (38:53) Empowerment Dynamics in Leadership (40:57) The Importance of Self-Compassion (42:50) Tools for Personal and Professional Growth (44:37) Creating a Culture of Empowerment Donna Zajonc, MCC, is the Director of Coaching at the Center for The Empowerment Dynamic, where she designs and facilitates coaching programs based on the TED* framework (The Empowerment Dynamic). A Master Certified Coach since 2013 and recipient of Washington State's Excellence in Coaching Award in 2017, Donna has been dedicated to professional coaching since 2001. Alongside her business partner David Emerald, she helps coaches and leaders move from the Drama Triangle to the empowering roles of Creator, Challenger, and Coach. Donna lives in the Pacific Northwest, enjoying beach walks, good books, dark chocolate, microbrews, and time with her children and grandchildren. Connect with Donna: Website: https://theempowermentdynamic.com/  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/donna-zajonc-mcc-612455/  Connect with Darius: Website: https://therealdarius.com/ Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dariusmirshahzadeh/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/imthedarius/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Thegreatnessmachine  Book: The Core Value Equation https://www.amazon.com/Core-Value-Equation-Framework-Limitless/dp/1544506708 Write a review for The Greatness Machine using this link: https://ratethispodcast.com/spreadinggreatness.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Putting Nicholas Tartaglione—a former cop facing a serious violent case—into the same cell as Jeffrey Epstein has always looked like a decision that begs for more explanation than the system ever really gave. The official framing leans on routine housing pressures and standard placement decisions at MCC, but that's hard to square with Epstein's status as the most high-profile detainee in the building, under intense scrutiny, with known safety and suicide-risk concerns. What makes it even messier is that after Epstein was found injured in his cell, internal documentation reflects that Epstein told staff his cellmate tried to kill him—a claim that directly contradicts any “nothing to see here” tone about the housing choice. Even if officials later described the episode as murky, disputed, or consistent with self-harm, the fact remains: the inmate at the center of the most sensitive federal custody situation in America ended up in a cell with a man the public would never describe as “low-risk,” and then immediately said he'd been attacked.And that's where the “official narrative” keeps running into its own credibility problem: it asks the public to accept a chain of extraordinary coincidences inside a facility later shown to be riddled with procedural failures. If Epstein's account is taken seriously, then the placement decision and the response protocols become the story—because it would mean the Bureau of Prisons put him in a situation where he could plausibly be harmed, and then had to manage the fallout. If Epstein's account is not taken seriously, then the obvious question is why the system tolerated ambiguity at all—why key surveillance gaps, inconsistent supervision practices, and the broader MCC breakdowns left so much room for competing explanations. Either way, the housing choice looks less like a neutral administrative call and more like a decision that created maximum risk with minimum transparency, followed by a public-facing story that never fully resolved the most basic issue: why was this pairing allowed in the first place, and why did Epstein immediately say he'd been assaulted?to contact me:bobbycapucci@protonmail.com

The Ashes Daily 2025, 4th Test, Melbourne Day 3 wrap: The whole country is fixated on one thing: 22 yards of grass in the middle of the MCG, and how it came to influence an Ashes series. Head curator Matt Page had to turn out for a post-match press conference with the head of the MCC, Stuart Fox, such was the need for damage control. Was it really the pitch's fault? And either way, what does this mean for the future prospects of Test cricket? Adam and Geoff get together after a night off to chew through it all. Get your copy of Bedtime Tales for Cricket Tragics: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠linktr.ee/tfwbook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Support the show with a Nerd Pledge at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠patreon.com/thefinalword⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Stop snoring with 5% off a Zeus device: use code TFW2025 at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠zeussleeps.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get yourself some lovely BIG Boots UK, with 10% off at this link: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.bigboots.co.uk/?ref=thefinalword⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Try the new Stomping Ground Final Word beer, or join Patreon to win a case: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠stompingground.beer⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Maurice Blackburn Lawyers - fighting for workers since 1919: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠mauriceblackburn.com.au⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Get your big NordVPN discount: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠nordvpn.com/tfw⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get 10% off Glenn Maxwell's sunnies: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠t20vision.com/FINALWORD⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Find previous episodes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠finalwordcricket.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Title track by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Urthboy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Meaning of Life, Christianity, the Bible, and God (Part 3) Matthew 22:36-40

In his 2025 congressional deposition, Bill Barr largely reiterated the position he has maintained since leaving office: that Jeffrey Epstein died by suicide and that there was no evidence of homicide or outside interference. Barr emphasized the findings of the medical examiner, the DOJ's internal reviews, and the conclusions reached by the FBI and Bureau of Prisons investigations, framing the failures at MCC as severe negligence rather than conspiracy. He acknowledged the catastrophic breakdowns in staffing, camera coverage, and supervision but resisted claims that those failures pointed to intentional misconduct. Throughout the deposition, Barr portrayed the persistence of alternative theories as driven more by public mistrust and the extraordinary nature of Epstein's crimes than by substantiated evidence uncovered during federal reviews.That explanation, however, did little to quiet long-standing skepticism surrounding Barr's narrative. Lawmakers pressed him on the speed and certainty with which he publicly declared Epstein's death a suicide, the reliance on internal investigations rather than independent inquiries, and the unresolved questions created by missing footage, altered records, and contradictory statements from jail officials. Critics noted that Epstein's unique status, political connections, and intelligence-adjacent history make the “ordinary negligence” explanation difficult for many to accept, especially given the stakes involved. The deposition ultimately underscored a central tension that has followed the case for years: Barr insists the matter is settled by evidence and procedure, while a significant portion of the public—and some members of Congress—remain unconvinced that the full truth about Epstein's death has ever been disclosed.to contact  me:bobbycapucci@protonmail.com

Mark Epstein has consistently argued that the official account of his brother Jeffrey Epstein's death in federal custody is inadequate and incomplete, repeatedly calling for a far more robust, independent investigation. He has publicly questioned the findings of the New York City medical examiner, emphasizing that the determination of suicide was not unanimous and that at least one prominent forensic pathologist concluded the injuries were more consistent with homicide. Mark Epstein has also pointed to the extraordinary number of failures at the Metropolitan Correctional Center on the night of Jeffrey Epstein's death, including malfunctioning cameras, guards who allegedly fell asleep, and lapses in required welfare checks. In his view, these breakdowns were too numerous and consequential to be dismissed as mere coincidence. He has stressed that his concerns are not rooted in defending his brother's crimes, but in establishing what actually happened in a federal facility that was supposed to be under constant supervision. For Mark Epstein, unanswered questions surrounding the death undermine public trust in the justice system. He has maintained that transparency, not closure, should be the priority.Beyond disputing the medical and custodial conclusions, Mark Epstein has repeatedly criticized the scope and depth of the federal response, arguing that investigations have focused more on ending scrutiny than resolving contradictions. He has called for a fully independent inquiry with subpoena power, one that examines not only the immediate circumstances of the death but also potential external pressures, conflicts of interest, and institutional incentives to avoid embarrassment or liability. Mark Epstein has also questioned why no senior officials faced serious consequences despite the acknowledged failures at MCC, framing this lack of accountability as emblematic of a broader reluctance to confront uncomfortable truths. He has stated that without a comprehensive investigation, suspicions will persist regardless of official statements or reports. His continued advocacy reflects a belief that the case has been prematurely closed rather than thoroughly resolved. In his view, the handling of his brother's death represents a missed opportunity for institutional reckoning. Until those gaps are addressed, Mark Epstein has said, the public will be left with doubt rather than facts.to contact me:bobbycapucci@protonmail.com

Putting Nicholas Tartaglione—a former cop facing a serious violent case—into the same cell as Jeffrey Epstein has always looked like a decision that begs for more explanation than the system ever really gave. The official framing leans on routine housing pressures and standard placement decisions at MCC, but that's hard to square with Epstein's status as the most high-profile detainee in the building, under intense scrutiny, with known safety and suicide-risk concerns. What makes it even messier is that after Epstein was found injured in his cell, internal documentation reflects that Epstein told staff his cellmate tried to kill him—a claim that directly contradicts any “nothing to see here” tone about the housing choice. Even if officials later described the episode as murky, disputed, or consistent with self-harm, the fact remains: the inmate at the center of the most sensitive federal custody situation in America ended up in a cell with a man the public would never describe as “low-risk,” and then immediately said he'd been attacked.And that's where the “official narrative” keeps running into its own credibility problem: it asks the public to accept a chain of extraordinary coincidences inside a facility later shown to be riddled with procedural failures. If Epstein's account is taken seriously, then the placement decision and the response protocols become the story—because it would mean the Bureau of Prisons put him in a situation where he could plausibly be harmed, and then had to manage the fallout. If Epstein's account is not taken seriously, then the obvious question is why the system tolerated ambiguity at all—why key surveillance gaps, inconsistent supervision practices, and the broader MCC breakdowns left so much room for competing explanations. Either way, the housing choice looks less like a neutral administrative call and more like a decision that created maximum risk with minimum transparency, followed by a public-facing story that never fully resolved the most basic issue: why was this pairing allowed in the first place, and why did Epstein immediately say he'd been assaulted?to contact me:bobbycapucci@protonmail.comBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-moscow-murders-and-more--5852883/support.

To access the extended version of this episode, join our Patreon. Our community awaits with legs open and lips parted

Putting Nicholas Tartaglione—a former cop facing a serious violent case—into the same cell as Jeffrey Epstein has always looked like a decision that begs for more explanation than the system ever really gave. The official framing leans on routine housing pressures and standard placement decisions at MCC, but that's hard to square with Epstein's status as the most high-profile detainee in the building, under intense scrutiny, with known safety and suicide-risk concerns. What makes it even messier is that after Epstein was found injured in his cell, internal documentation reflects that Epstein told staff his cellmate tried to kill him—a claim that directly contradicts any “nothing to see here” tone about the housing choice. Even if officials later described the episode as murky, disputed, or consistent with self-harm, the fact remains: the inmate at the center of the most sensitive federal custody situation in America ended up in a cell with a man the public would never describe as “low-risk,” and then immediately said he'd been attacked.And that's where the “official narrative” keeps running into its own credibility problem: it asks the public to accept a chain of extraordinary coincidences inside a facility later shown to be riddled with procedural failures. If Epstein's account is taken seriously, then the placement decision and the response protocols become the story—because it would mean the Bureau of Prisons put him in a situation where he could plausibly be harmed, and then had to manage the fallout. If Epstein's account is not taken seriously, then the obvious question is why the system tolerated ambiguity at all—why key surveillance gaps, inconsistent supervision practices, and the broader MCC breakdowns left so much room for competing explanations. Either way, the housing choice looks less like a neutral administrative call and more like a decision that created maximum risk with minimum transparency, followed by a public-facing story that never fully resolved the most basic issue: why was this pairing allowed in the first place, and why did Epstein immediately say he'd been assaulted?to contact me:bobbycapucci@protonmail.comBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-epstein-chronicles--5003294/support.

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Mark Epstein has consistently argued that the official account of his brother Jeffrey Epstein's death in federal custody is inadequate and incomplete, repeatedly calling for a far more robust, independent investigation. He has publicly questioned the findings of the New York City medical examiner, emphasizing that the determination of suicide was not unanimous and that at least one prominent forensic pathologist concluded the injuries were more consistent with homicide. Mark Epstein has also pointed to the extraordinary number of failures at the Metropolitan Correctional Center on the night of Jeffrey Epstein's death, including malfunctioning cameras, guards who allegedly fell asleep, and lapses in required welfare checks. In his view, these breakdowns were too numerous and consequential to be dismissed as mere coincidence. He has stressed that his concerns are not rooted in defending his brother's crimes, but in establishing what actually happened in a federal facility that was supposed to be under constant supervision. For Mark Epstein, unanswered questions surrounding the death undermine public trust in the justice system. He has maintained that transparency, not closure, should be the priority.Beyond disputing the medical and custodial conclusions, Mark Epstein has repeatedly criticized the scope and depth of the federal response, arguing that investigations have focused more on ending scrutiny than resolving contradictions. He has called for a fully independent inquiry with subpoena power, one that examines not only the immediate circumstances of the death but also potential external pressures, conflicts of interest, and institutional incentives to avoid embarrassment or liability. Mark Epstein has also questioned why no senior officials faced serious consequences despite the acknowledged failures at MCC, framing this lack of accountability as emblematic of a broader reluctance to confront uncomfortable truths. He has stated that without a comprehensive investigation, suspicions will persist regardless of official statements or reports. His continued advocacy reflects a belief that the case has been prematurely closed rather than thoroughly resolved. In his view, the handling of his brother's death represents a missed opportunity for institutional reckoning. Until those gaps are addressed, Mark Epstein has said, the public will be left with doubt rather than facts.to contact me:bobbycapucci@protonmail.com

Mark Epstein has consistently argued that the official account of his brother Jeffrey Epstein's death in federal custody is inadequate and incomplete, repeatedly calling for a far more robust, independent investigation. He has publicly questioned the findings of the New York City medical examiner, emphasizing that the determination of suicide was not unanimous and that at least one prominent forensic pathologist concluded the injuries were more consistent with homicide. Mark Epstein has also pointed to the extraordinary number of failures at the Metropolitan Correctional Center on the night of Jeffrey Epstein's death, including malfunctioning cameras, guards who allegedly fell asleep, and lapses in required welfare checks. In his view, these breakdowns were too numerous and consequential to be dismissed as mere coincidence. He has stressed that his concerns are not rooted in defending his brother's crimes, but in establishing what actually happened in a federal facility that was supposed to be under constant supervision. For Mark Epstein, unanswered questions surrounding the death undermine public trust in the justice system. He has maintained that transparency, not closure, should be the priority.Beyond disputing the medical and custodial conclusions, Mark Epstein has repeatedly criticized the scope and depth of the federal response, arguing that investigations have focused more on ending scrutiny than resolving contradictions. He has called for a fully independent inquiry with subpoena power, one that examines not only the immediate circumstances of the death but also potential external pressures, conflicts of interest, and institutional incentives to avoid embarrassment or liability. Mark Epstein has also questioned why no senior officials faced serious consequences despite the acknowledged failures at MCC, framing this lack of accountability as emblematic of a broader reluctance to confront uncomfortable truths. He has stated that without a comprehensive investigation, suspicions will persist regardless of official statements or reports. His continued advocacy reflects a belief that the case has been prematurely closed rather than thoroughly resolved. In his view, the handling of his brother's death represents a missed opportunity for institutional reckoning. Until those gaps are addressed, Mark Epstein has said, the public will be left with doubt rather than facts.to contact me:bobbycapucci@protonmail.comBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-moscow-murders-and-more--5852883/support.

Have you ever questioned the very nature of existence? Have you wondered how it all started and what secrets the universe holds? For most of us, these matters are beyond our comprehension. And yet, these are questions scientists at CERN - the world's leading research body for particle physics - are currently exploring. Dr. Heuer discusses with host Dr. Katrina Burrus the experiences and challenges to which he now attributes his successful leadership and achievements within the scientific community. Who is Rolf-Dieter Heuer? Dr. Heuer studied physics at the University of Stuttgart. He then obtained his PhD in 1977 at the University of Heidelberg under Joachim Heintze. His post-doc studies include the JADE experiment at the electron-positron storage ring PETRA at DESY, and from 1984, at the OPAL experiment at CERN, where he also became a spokesperson of the OPAL collaboration for many years. Having been offered a full professorship for experimental physics at the University of Hamburg, Heuer returned to DESY in 1998. In 2004, he was appointed DESY's Research Director. In December 2007, the CERN research council announced that Heuer will take office as CERN's Director General starting 1 January 2009. Excellent Executive Coaching Podcast If you have enjoyed this episode, subscribe to our podcast on iTunes. We would love for you to leave a review. The EEC podcasts are sponsored by MKB Excellent Executive Coaching, which helps you get from where you are to where you want to be with customized leadership and coaching development programs. MKB Excellent Executive Coaching offers leadership development programs to generate action, learning, and change that is aligned with your authentic self and values. Transform your dreams into reality and invest in yourself by scheduling a discovery session with Dr. Katrina Burrus, MCC, to reach your goals. Your host is Dr. Katrina Burrus, MCC, founder and general manager of Excellent Executive Coaching, a company that specializes in leadership development

“Christmas is a very busy time for us, Mr. Cratchit. People preparing feasts, giving parties, spending the mortgage money on frivolities. One might say that December is the foreclosure season. Harvest time for the money-lenders.”It's nearly Christmas and from both of us we would like to say thank you to everyone for your support throughout the years and 2026 will be another fun year in the land of 80's Adventure.This last episode before the end of the year has us venturing to Victorian London with the Muppets and the legendary Sir Michael Caine.  So, grab a Baileys and sit by the tree as we break down this take on the greatest story ever told.Please share with anyone who is a fan of these films and the 80's in general.  You can get in touch with us on the links below.   CheersyFollow 80s Adventure on facebook   facebook.com/80sadventure   Check out the website   80sadventure.com   Email 80s Adventure   podcast@80sadventure.com   Support 80s Adventure on Patreon   patreon.com/80sadventure   Buy the boys a beerko-fi.com/80sadventure  

In his 2025 congressional deposition, Bill Barr largely reiterated the position he has maintained since leaving office: that Jeffrey Epstein died by suicide and that there was no evidence of homicide or outside interference. Barr emphasized the findings of the medical examiner, the DOJ's internal reviews, and the conclusions reached by the FBI and Bureau of Prisons investigations, framing the failures at MCC as severe negligence rather than conspiracy. He acknowledged the catastrophic breakdowns in staffing, camera coverage, and supervision but resisted claims that those failures pointed to intentional misconduct. Throughout the deposition, Barr portrayed the persistence of alternative theories as driven more by public mistrust and the extraordinary nature of Epstein's crimes than by substantiated evidence uncovered during federal reviews.That explanation, however, did little to quiet long-standing skepticism surrounding Barr's narrative. Lawmakers pressed him on the speed and certainty with which he publicly declared Epstein's death a suicide, the reliance on internal investigations rather than independent inquiries, and the unresolved questions created by missing footage, altered records, and contradictory statements from jail officials. Critics noted that Epstein's unique status, political connections, and intelligence-adjacent history make the “ordinary negligence” explanation difficult for many to accept, especially given the stakes involved. The deposition ultimately underscored a central tension that has followed the case for years: Barr insists the matter is settled by evidence and procedure, while a significant portion of the public—and some members of Congress—remain unconvinced that the full truth about Epstein's death has ever been disclosed.to contact  me:bobbycapucci@protonmail.comBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-moscow-murders-and-more--5852883/support.

In this gripping episode of Gangland Wire, host Gary Jenkins sits down with Robert “Bob” Cooley, the Chicago lawyer whose extraordinary journey took him from deep inside the Outfit's criminal operations to becoming one of the federal government's most valuable witnesses against organized crime. Cooley pulls back the curtain on the hidden machinery of Chicago's underworld, describing how corruption, bribery, and violence shaped the Chicago Outfit's power in the 1970s and beyond. As a lawyer, gambler, and trusted insider, Cooley saw firsthand how mob influence tilted the scales of justice—often in open daylight. Inside the “Chicago Method” of Courtroom Corruption Cooley explains the notorious system of judicial bribery he once helped facilitate—what he calls the “Chicago Method.” He walks listeners through: How defense attorneys worked directly with Outfit associates to buy favorable rulings. The process of approaching and bribing judges. Why weak forensic standards of the era made witness discrediting the key mob strategy. His personal involvement in the infamous Harry Aleman murder case, where clear guilt was erased by corruption. Life in the Outfit: Gambling, Debt, and Mob Justice Cooley recounts his early days gambling with Chicago Outfit associates, including Marco D'Amico, Jackie Cerrone, and John DeFranzo. Notable stories include: The violent implications of unpaid gambling debts in mob circles. Tense interactions with bookmaker Hal Smith and the chaotic fallout of a bounced check involving mobster Eddie Corrado. How D'Amico often stepped in—sometimes with intimidation—to shield Cooley from harm. These stories reflect the daily volatility of life inside the Outfit, where money, fear, and loyalty intersect constantly. Bob Cooley has a great book titled When Corruption Was King where he goes into even greater detail and has many more stories from his life inside the Chicago Mob. Hit me up on Venmo for a cup of coffee or a shot and a beer @ganglandwire Click here to “buy me a cup of coffee” Subscribe to the website for weekly notifications about updates and other Mob information. To go to the store or make a donation or rent Ballot Theft: Burglary, Murder, Coverup, click here To rent ‘Brothers against Brothers’ or ‘Gangland Wire,’ the documentaries click here.  To purchase one of my books, click here. 0:06 Introduction to Bob Cooley 1:32 Life as an Outfit Gambler 2:00 My Relationship with Marco D’Amico 10:40 The Story of Hal Smith 11:05 A Dangerous Encounter 20:21 Meeting Sally D 22:23 A Contract on My Life 22:37 The Harry Alleman Case 34:47 Inside the Courtroom 51:08 The Verdict 52:26 Warning the Judge 53:49 The Case Against the Policewoman 58:36 Navigating the Legal Maze 1:08:14 The Outcome and Its Consequences 1:11:39 The Decision to Flip 1:24:38 A Father’s Influence 1:33:57 The Corruption Revealed 1:50:12 Political Connections 2:02:07 The Setup for Robbery 2:20:29 Consequences of Loyalty transcript [0:00] Hey, guys, my guest today is a former Chicago outfit associate named Robert Bob Cooley. He has a book out there titled When Corruption Was King. I highly recommend you get it if you want to look inside the Chicago outfit of the 1970s. Now, Bob’s going to tell us about his life as an outfit gambler, lawyer, and I use payoff to judges to get many, many not guilty verdicts. Now, I always call this the Chicago method. This happened for, I know, for Harry Ailman, a case we’re going to talk about, Tony Spolatro got one of these not-guilties. Now, the outfit member associate who is blessed to get this fix put in for him may be charged with a crime, even up to murder. And he gets a lawyer, a connected lawyer, and they’ll demand a bench trial. That means that only a judge makes the decision. A lawyer, like my guest, who worked with a political fixer named Pat Marcy. [0:53] They’ll work together and they’ll get a friendly judge assigned to that case and then they’ll bribe the judge. And all that judge needs is some kind of alibi witnesses and any kind of information to discredit any prosecution witnesses. Now, this is back in the olden days before you had all this DNA and all that kind of thing. So physical evidence was not really a part of it. Mainly, it was from witnesses. And they just have to discredit any prosecution witness. Then the judge can say, well, state hadn’t really proven their case beyond a reasonable doubt and issue a not guilty verdict and walk away. Now, our guest, Bob Cooley, is going to take us inside this world. [1:29] And it’s a world of beatings, murders, bribes, and other kinds of plots. He was a member of the Elmwood Park crew. He was a big gambler. He was a big loan shark. And he worked for a guy named Marco D’Amico, who was their gambling boss and loan shark in that crew. Among other bosses in this powerful crew were Jackie Cerrone, who will go on and become the underboss and eventually the boss for a short [1:55] period of time. and John no-nose DeFranzo, who will also go on to become the boss eventually. What was your relationship with Marco D’Amico? I talked about when I first came into the 18th district, when I came into work there, and they put me back in uniform, the first person I met was Rick Borelli. Rick Borelli, he was Marco’s cousin. [2:23] When I started gambling right away with Rick, within a couple of days, I’m being his face, and I’m calling and making bets. There was a restaurant across the street where every Wednesday and sometimes a couple days a week, I would meet with Ricky. And one of the first people he brought in there was Marco. Was Marco. And Marco would usually be with a person or two. And I thought they were just bookmakers. [2:55] And I started being friendly with him, meeting him there. Then I started having card games Up in my apartment And, Because now I’m making, in the very beginning, I’m making first $100 extra a week. And within a couple of weeks, I’m making $500, $600 extra a week. And within about a month, I’m making $1,000, sometimes more than that. So now I’m having card games, relatively big card games, because I’ve got a bankroll. I’ve got probably about $5,000, $6,000, which seemed like a lot of money to me. Initially uh and after a while that was a daily that was a daily deal but uh so we we started having card games up there and then we started socializing we started now he’d be at these nightclubs all the time when when i’d go to make my payoffs he was part of the main group there he was one of the call he was right he was right under jack right under at that time originally Jackie Cerrone, and then he was right under Johnny DeFranco. [4:07] But he was… And we became real good friends. We would double date and we spent a lot of time together. And we had these big card games. And that’s when I realized how powerful these people were. Because after one of the card games, there was somebody that was brought in, a guy named Corrado. I’m pretty sure his name was I can’t think of his first name, but Corrado was this person that somebody brought into the game. And after we finished playing cards, and I won all the time. I mean, I was a real good card player, and I wouldn’t drink. I’d supply liquor and food and everything, but I wouldn’t drink. And as the others drank, they were the same as at my office. After we finish up, this guy says, you want to play some? We can play maybe some gin. just human being. And he was there with another friend of his who just sat there and watched. So we played, not gin, but blackjack. We played and passed cards back and forth when you win. Then you’re the dealer and back and forth. And I lost, I think I lost about $4,000 or $13,000 to him. [5:26] I lost the cash that I had. I had cash about $5,000 or $6,000. And I gave him a check for the rest. You know, but everything I was doing was wrong, you know. Yeah, one of those nights. It’s in there. And it’s funny because you asked about Marco. [5:47] And I thought, you know, oh, well, and whatever. And I gave him a check. I said, no, it’s a good check. And it was. It was for my office. It was an office check that I gave him. And that next morning, I’m meeting with Ricky and with Marco at this restaurant across from the station before I go in and to work. And I said, son of a B. I said, you know, they had a bad night first ever. Marco wasn’t at that game, at that particular game. And what happened? I said, I blew about 12,000. Okay, but you? Wow. And I said, yeah, I said, one of the guys at the game played some, I played some blackjack with somebody. What was his name? Eddie, Eddie Corrado. Eddie Corrado. He said, that mother, he said, stop payment on the check. He said, stop payment on the check. He said, because it wasn’t nine o’clock. It was only like, you know, seven, you know, seven 30 or whatever. He said, and when he gets ahold of you, arrange to have him come to your house. Tell him you’ll have the money for him at your house. So that’s what I, that’s what I do. So I stopped payment on it probably about five after nine. I get a call from, from Mr. Corrado. You mother fucker. [7:17] I said, no, no. I said, there wasn’t enough money in the account. I said, I’m sorry. I said, all right, then I’ll be over. I said, no, no, no. I said, I’m in court right now. I said, I’m in court. I said, I’m going to be tied up all day. I’ll meet you at my place. I’ll meet you back there. Well, I’ll be there. You better have that. I want cash and you better have it. Okay. Oh, I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m at home. Marco comes in. And he was there with Tony and Tony was there and Ricky was there. And Ricky was there. And they come over a little ahead of time and he comes in. I live on the 27th floor. The doorbell rings. Up he comes with some big mustache. [8:00] I open the door. You better have the fucking money and whatever. And I try to look nervous. I try to look real nervous. and when you walk into my apartment you walk in and you see the kitchen right in front of you and to the left to the left you’ve got an area away and you’ve got the the kitchen wall blocking what’s behind it over there and these three guys are standing marco and you are standing right there alongside of it and and when he walks in behind me, He sees Marco and all but shit in his pants. When he sees Marco, he goes, and Marco, you motherfucker. And, you know, oh, I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I didn’t know he was with you. He says, how much money you got me right now? And, you know, he says, pull your pockets out. He had about, he had about three or 4,000 with him. [9:02] And he says, you give him that. He says, you, he says, you, and he says, you give him that right now. And you apologize to him. Oh, and he says, he says, and I may give you a number. I want you to call. He says, we can put you to work. Apparently this guy had done the same thing to them a few years before and got the beating of his life somebody brought him into one of their card games, did he have a technique a cheating technique or had some marked cards no it was a card mechanic he could play games with cards they call him a mechanic and, in fact the guy was great at it because he had his own plane and everything else. But again, he had moved from Chicago and had just come back in the area. And they mounted. And so anyhow, he leaves. And he leaves then, and Marco took the money. Marco took the money. Marco took the money. Typical Bob guy, man. [10:19] And I says, what about the cash I lost to him? He says, well, you lost that. He says, you lost that. That’s when I realized how powerful. That’s when I realized how powerful that [10:35] he was part of the mob, not only a part of it, but one of the operational. Yeah, important part of it. That brings to mind another unbelievable situation that occurred. [10:49] The, uh, this is probably the, we’ll know the year by when it happened. There was a bookmaker named Hal Smith. Oh yeah. I remember that name. He got, tell us about Hal Smith. [11:05] Well, Hal Smith was a, he was a big guy too. A real, a real big guy. I met him on Rush street. He knew I was a gambler. He knew that I was a big gambler and I started gambling with him. Thank you. And I was with him probably for about maybe five or six months. And I’d win with him. I’d lose with him. And he would take big places. He would take $5,000 a game for me. And as they say, so the numbers were big. At the end of the week, we were sometimes $60,000, $70,000. [11:42] They were big numbers back and forth. And he was always good for the money. I was always good for the money. And one particular week, it was about $30,000. And I was waiting for money. Somebody else was supposed to give me even more than that. And the person put me off. And it was a good friend of mine. And I knew the money would be there. But a lot of times, these guys are going to collect it at a certain time. And then they’re expecting to give it to somebody else. Well, he was short. So I said, look, I don’t have it right now, but I’ll have it tomorrow, I said, because I’m meeting somebody. Well, okay, it better be there. [12:31] And look, it’ll be there, okay? Not a problem. So the next day, the person I’m supposed to get it from says, I’ll have it in a couple of hours. I don’t have it right now, but I’ll have it by late this afternoon. And I’m in my office when Hale Smith calls me and I said, I’ll have it a little bit later. And he slams the phone bell. I’m downstairs in Counselor’s Row. In fact, I’m meeting with Butchie and Harry. We’re in a booth talking about something. They had just sent me some business or whatever, but I’m talking about something. And George, the owner of the restaurant, comes over and he says, somebody is asking who you are and they want to talk to you. And they point out this guy. It was a guy I had seen before, because a lot of times at two in the morning, I would go down on West Street, and they had entertainment upstairs. And there was this big English guy. He was an English guy, as you could tell by his accent, a real loud guy. And when I walk up to talk to him, and he’s talking loud enough so people can hear him, and he says, you better have that. I’m here for it. You better have that. You better have that money. [13:51] Bob Hellsmith sent me, you get the money and you better have that money or there’s going to be a problem or whatever. And I said, well, the money will be there, but people can hear what this guy, this guy talking that shit. And he leaves. And he leaves. He’s going to call me back. And he leaves. I said, I’m busy right now. I says, give me a call back when I’m in the office and I’ll meet with you. So Butch, he goes, what was that all about? And I said, you know, it’s somebody I owe some money to. Well, who is he? Who is he with? I said, Harold Smith. And he said, who’s Harold Smith? You don’t pay him anything. He said, you don’t pay him anything. And he calls, when he calls back, he says, you will arrange to meet him. And I said, you know, I said, well, where? [14:44] And they knew where I lived. They’d been to my place at that time. I’m living in Newberry Plaza and they said, there’s a, there’s a Walgreens drugstore in Chicago Avenue. Tell him you’ll meet him there at Walgreens, and we’ll take it. And he says, and we’ll take it from there. When he does call me, I said, look, I said, I’ll meet you tomorrow morning for sure at Walgreens. I’ll have the cash. I said, I’ll have the cash, and I’ll have all of it. I said, but, you know, I’m tied up on some things. I said, I’ll go to my own bank when I’m finished here and whatever, and I’ll see you tomorrow morning for sure at 9 o’clock tomorrow morning. Okay. I sit down with them and they just said, I said, they said, go there and go meet them. And we’ll take care of it. The Walgreens is a store right in the corner of Michigan Avenue and Chicago Avenue, south side of the street. And it’s all windows. Huge windows here. Huge windows here. And a bus stop, a bus stop over here. When I get there, I park in the bus stop and I’m looking to my right and here he is sitting in a booth by himself, right by the window. And I look around and I don’t see anybody. I mean, with a lot of people, I don’t see Butchie. [16:06] Uh or red or anybody around but i i go in there anyhow and uh sit down and i uh sit down in the booth across from him and he’s eating breakfast he’s got some food in front of him and uh the girl comes by right away the girl comes by and i says you know just get me a coke and and he says have you got the money and i said yes and why i got i got a lot i got a lot of money in my pocket but not the, whatever it was he wanted, not the 27 or 28,000. There’s nobody there. And, uh, so we’re talking for no more than about two or three minutes. They had a telephone on the counter. I hear the phone ring and the waitress, the waitress is on the phone. And then she comes walking over and she says, it’s a call for you. And, and when I go get in the phone, I woke up and there’s a phone booth there. And here’s Butchie in the phone booth. And he’s there with a couple of other people. I hang the phone up. I walk over and I had my appointment booked. And I walk over and I just pick up the book. And as I’m walking out there, walking in, we pass each other. And so now when I get in my car and he’s looking at me in my car and right next to him is Butchie. And across from him was a red old male and Fat Herbie. [17:34] Herbie Blitzstein? Herbie Blitzstein? No, it wasn’t Herbie. This is another one. That’s one thing of Herbie. We called Herbie Fat. It was Fat Herbie. And the third guy is like sitting facing him. This is like, that weighs about 300 pounds. Oh, Sarno. Make Mike Sarno. Mike Sarno. That was it. And that’s, that’s, that’s who it was. You know, and I, I drive off, go to my office and go about my business. I get a call later that day from, uh, Hale Smith. Where’s my money? Where’s my money? I said, I gave it to your guy. You what? I gave it to him. I met him at nine o’clock this morning and I gave him the money. You did. And I said, yeah. Um, okay. And he hangs, and he hangs up. I don’t hear anything for a while. I never saw him again. I saw Hale a couple of times because he was always in one of the other restaurants. I lived in Newberry right across from there, but he never talked to me. I never talked to him, never said anything. It was about maybe it had to be a good couple of months later, When I read about Hale, Hale’s no longer with us. [18:52] That’s obviously how they found out about him. I never saw the other guy again. I’m hoping they didn’t kill him, but I’m assuming that’s what probably happened to him. In a public place like that, they probably just scared him off. He probably said, you know, I’m way over my head. I’m out of here. [19:15] They didn’t kill him in the public place he wouldn’t have been in the newspapers my little thought is like with the three guys they took him for a ride, I don’t know they just told him to leave town and he realized what it was and he did Hal didn’t get a chance to leave town Hal had other problems if I remember right I’d have to look it back up but he had other problems with the outfit what I found out later what they had done, was they had gotten one of their guys connected with him to find out who his customers were. In other words, one of the other people that he didn’t realize, that Hale didn’t realize was with them, they got him connected with them where he’s the one who’s doing his collecting and finding out who the customers were because they wanted to get all his customers as well as his money. It turns out he was He was a huge bookmaker for years. That’s what happened to him. And they just took his book. Yeah, I remember something about that story because I killed him in his house, I believe. Yeah, Sally D. [20:22] Sally D, yeah. Sally D was one. When I first met Sally D, he was with Marco’s Fruit, too. [20:30] He owned a pizza place up on the north side, north shore, and I broke him. I was betting with him and beating him week after week. And one of the last times I played with him, he couldn’t come up with the money. It took him an extra couple of weeks to get the cash to pay me. But we were real close friends with him. He’s a bizarre character because he was a totally low level at that time. Yeah. When he then connected up with the Cicero crew, with Rocky and Felice, with Rocky and those people, he became a boss with them. It turns out it was after they killed Al Smith. He was part of all that. That’s Salih De Laurentiis. He’s supposed to be a boss. He moved on up after the Family Secrets trial. He didn’t go down with that, I believe, and he kind of moved on up after that. I don’t know what happened to him. What was so funny about that, when he would come into the club, Marco’s club, Bobby Abinati. [21:42] Who was strictly a very low-level player, although we indicted him with the Gambia star. He’s the one who set up the robbery. Would that have been great if that would have gone through? He’s the one who set up that robbery in Wisconsin. He’d be making fun of Salihide all the time. [22:03] When Salihide would come in, he would make fun of him and joke about him and talk about what a loser he was. This is when he’s a boss of that crew. I mean, just a strange, I mean, nobody talked to bosses like that, especially when, when you’re, when you’re what they call Bobby, you know, what was Marco’s nickname for Bobby Knucklehead? [22:23] That was his nickname, Knucklehead. Pat Marcy, uh, contacted me about, you know, handling me in the only own case. [22:32] I couldn’t have been happier because that was a short time after they put a contract on me. So now i realized if they’re going to be making money you know they finally stopped because for good six seven months when i when i came back to chicago uh i was checking under my car every day in case there was a bomb i moved i moved from uh from a place that i own in the suburbs into an apartment complex so i wouldn’t be living on the first floor yeah it’d be impossible to somebody to break into my, you know, took them thrashing into my place. I changed my whole life around in that sense. [23:10] And when I drove everywhere I went, you know, I would go on the highway and then jump over. I would do all, I wanted to make absolutes. Even though nobody came around, I wasn’t taking any chances for a long period of time. And that was too when it cost me a fortune because that’s when I stopped dealing with the bookmakers because I wasn’t going to be in a position where I had to go meet somebody at any time to collect my money and whatever. [23:39] So what had happened, though, was somebody came to see me. And when I was practicing, there’s a lot of things I wouldn’t do. I set my own rules. I would not get involved. After the Harry Alleman case, I never got involved anymore myself fixing certain cases. But even prior to that, I wouldn’t fix certain cases. I wouldn’t get involved in certain cases, especially involving the police, because my father was such a terrific policeman, and I felt I was too in a lot of sentences. I loved the police. I disliked some of the crooked cops that I knew, but on the surface, I’d be friendly with them, etc. Harry Ailman was a prolific hitman for the Elmwood Park crew. He killed a teamster who wouldn’t help set up trucks for the outfit, a guy named Billy Logan. He was just a regular guy. He’s going to take us right into the meeting with the judge. He’ll take us into a counselor’s row restaurant where these cases were fixed. Now, Bob will give us a seat right at Pat Marcy’s table. Now, Pat Marcy was the first ward fixture, and he’s going to take us into the hallway with Pat Marcy where they made the payoffs. [24:57] Now, Bob, can you take us inside the famous Harry Aileman murder case? I know you fixed it. And tell us, you know, and I know there was a human toll that this took on that corrupt judge, Frank Wilson. Okay. The Harry Aileman case was, it was not long after I became partners with Johnny DeArco. I get a call from, I’m in Counselor’s Row at the restaurant. Whenever I was in there now, my spot was the first ward table. Nobody was allowed to sit there day or night. That was reserved for first ward connected people and only the top group of people. [25:40] I’m sitting there at the table and Johnny DeArco Sr. Tells me, you know, Pat wants to talk to you. About something. And I said, you know, sure. Not long afterwards, Pat comes downstairs. We go out. We go out in the hall because we never talk at the table. And he tells me, have you got somebody that can handle the Harry Alleman case? I had seen in the news, he was front page news. He was one of the main mob hitmen. He was partners with Butchie Petrucelli. But it was common knowledge that he was a hitman. He looked like one. He dressed like one. He acted like one. And whatever. And he was one. In fact, he was the one that used to go to New York. And I know he also went to Arizona to do some hits and whatever. He traveled around the country. I said to Pat, they thought the case was a mob hit on a team street. a teamster. I assumed that it was just that. It was people doing what they do. But I said to Pat, I said, well, get me the file. Get me the file. Let me see what the case looks like. Because I would never put a judge in a bad spot. That was my nature. [27:06] When I had cases, a lot of these judges were personal friends of mine. What I would do, if I wanted to have a case, if I wanted to fix a case to save all the time of having to go to a damn long trial, I would make sure that it was a case that was winnable, easily winnable. When I got the file, when I got the file from Pat, he got me the file the next day. The next morning, when he came in, he gave me the file. I looked at the file. It was a throw-out case. When I say throw-out case, absolutely a nothing case. [27:46] The records in the file showed that a car drove up down the street. Suddenly somebody with a shotgun blasted a guy named Billy Logan in front of his house and drove away. They were contacted by a neighbor, this guy, Bobby Lowe. Was it Bobby Lowe? Yeah, I’m pretty sure Bobby Lowe. Who indicated that he opened the door and let his dog run out. And when he looked, he saw somebody. He saw a car, and he gave a description of the car. And he saw somebody pull up, and he saw him shoot with a shotgun. And then he saw the person get out of the car and shoot him with a .45, and shoot him with a .45. And then the car sped away. That was pretty much the case. Some other people heard some noise, looked out, and saw a car driving away. A period of time after that, it had to be about a year or so after that, somebody was arrested driving to Pennsylvania to kill somebody. There was a guy who stopped. [29:16] Louie Almeida was his name. Louie Almeida was stopped in his car. He was on the way to Pennsylvania. And in front of his car, he had shotguns. And he winds up, when he gets arrested, he winds up telling the authorities that he can tell them about a mob murder back in Chicago and winds up cooperating with them. He indicates what happened. He indicated that, you know, he was asked to, you know, or he got involved in it. He got the car and whatever. They did this. They did that. And he pulled up alongside Billy and wound up shooting the victim as he came out of the house. [30:09] Now, I look at some other reports in there, some reports that were made out, new reports. They talk about the Louis Almeida. They talk about the witness that gave the first statement. and they said that they found, or he’s giving us a new statement now where he says he’s walking his dog. He hears a shotgun. His dog runs towards the car where the shooting was coming from. He saw Harry get out of the car and walk over and shoot him, walk over and shoot the victim, and he was looking at him, And then he jumped in the bushes and the car drove away. A complete new story. Yeah. A complete new story. And. I looked at the reports, and this is an easy winner. And so I told Pat, you know, I’ll take it. You know, I’m sure I can handle it. I said, I’m sure I can handle it, but, you know, I’ll let you know. [31:21] That’s when I contacted, I met my restaurant, Greco’s, and I had Frank Wilson there a lot. Well, I called Frank Wilson, invited him and his wife to come to the restaurant. I had done that many times before. When he gets there, I tell him, I have the case. You know, I told him I was contacted on this case, I said. And I said, it’s an easy winner, I said. And I explained to him what it was. I told him, you know, it’s the driver of the car who’s doing this to help himself. And this other guy, Bobby Lowe, that gave a complete new story from the original story that he gave. And I indicated, you know, can you handle the case? And he tells me, I can’t handle the case, he said, because I was SOJ’d. In Chicago, Illinois, they have a rule that makes it easy for people to fool around because for no reason at all you can ask to have a judge moved off the case. And you can name a second judge that you don’t want to handle the case. [32:34] Frank Wilson’s reputation was as such that the lawyer that turned out to be a judge later on, Tom Maloney, who had the case, named him in the SOJ. It was assigned to somebody else, and he indicated he wanted any other judge except Frank Wilson. Frank Wilson on the case. And this was Harry Aileman’s lawyer. Yeah. Okay. And who Tom Maloney, who then ends up being the judge years later. But yeah. Well, because we knew he was going to be a judge. Yeah. We knew ahead of time. I knew at that time. That’s what makes the story so unbelievably interesting. Yeah. Anyhow, he says, I can’t do it because… In Chicago, in Chicago, it’s supposed to keep it honest. I love this. To keep it honest. Yeah. To keep it honest, each judge is supposed to be picked by computer. [33:33] Same thing they’re doing to this day. Trump wondered why the same judge kept getting all his cases. Because they’re doing the same thing we did, some of us could do in Chicago. He was the chief judge in the area. he said to me, I don’t think I can get the case. I don’t think I can’t get the case. I said, I’ll get the case to you. I said, I’ll get, because I already, I, in fact, through Pat Marcy, anytime I wanted a case to go anywhere, I would contact Pat and I’d give him a thousand dollars and he would get me any judge I wanted. Uh, I said, well, I think I can. I said, I said, And I gave him $1,000. [34:16] I said, here, this is yours. And if I can’t get the case to you, you keep it. If I can’t get, I never said to him, will you fix it? Will you this or that? I mean, he understood what it was. I didn’t know how he would react to it. When I asked him, would you handle it? Were the words I used. I had never fixed anything with him before. [34:43] In case he was, you know, he would want to report it to somebody. I wasn’t worried because Frank had a reputation as being a big drinker. After I got the Harry Elliman file, Pat tells me, I’m going to have somebody come and talk to you. Who comes? And we meet in the first ward office, and then we go downstairs into the special room they had for conversations. It’s Mike Ficarro. He’s the head of the organized crime section. He’s the one who prosecutes all the criminals. He’s one of the many prosecutors in Chicago. That’s why there were over 1,000 mob murders and never a conviction from the time of Al Capone. Not a single conviction with over 1,000 mob murders because they controlled absolutely everything. He’s the boss. [35:35] I knew him. I didn’t like him. He had an attitude about him. You know, when I would see him at parties and when I’d see him at other places, and I’d walk by and say, hi, he just seemed coldish. [35:47] I found out later why. He was jealous of the relationship I had with all these people. [35:54] He says, I’ll help you any way I can, anything you need, whatever. So the prosecutors on the Harry Olliman case were our people. That’s who’s prosecuting the case anyhow. But they couldn’t get one of their judges apparently who would handle the case. So, but anyhow, uh, so, uh, when we, um, when we go, when we, when we go to trial, um. [36:25] Before to help me out, I told Pat, I’ll get somebody else to handle the case. I’ll have somebody else. I said, I won’t go in there. I won’t go in there because everybody knows I’m close to Frank, very close to Frank. I said, so I won’t go in there. I’ll get somebody. He says, no, no. He said, I’ll get somebody. And so he gets a guy named Frank Whalen, who I didn’t know at the time. He was a retired lawyer from Chicago. He was one of the mob lawyers. [37:00] He was one of the mob lawyers. And he lived in Florida. He lived in Miami. I think it was, no, Lauderdale. He lived in the Lauderdale area. He was practicing there. So I fly out. I fly out to meet him. I i do all the investigating in the case the i’m using an investigator that harry alleman got from me in fact he was the same investigator that got in trouble in in uh in in hollywood for what for a lot of stuff i can’t think of his name right now but he’s the one who got indicted in hollywood eventually for you know wiretapping people and whatever it was the same one. And he got me information on Bobby on this Bobby Lowe. He found out Bobby Lowe, Bobby Lowe was a drug addict. [37:59] When the FBI got a hold of him, Bobby Lowe was living out in the street because he had been fired from his first job. He had a job in some kind of an ice cream company where they made ice cream, and he got fired there for stealing. And then he had a job after that in a gas station, and he faked a robbery there. Apparently, what he did was he called the police and said he had been robbed. This is before they had cameras and all the rest of that stuff. He said he had been robbed. And somebody happened to have been in the gas station getting gas. It was a big place, apparently. [38:45] And when the police talked to him, he said, I didn’t see anything strange. He said, I saw the attendant walk out to the back about 10, 15 minutes ago. I saw him walk out to the back of the place and then come back in. And so they go out, and he had his car parked behind it, and they found the money that was supposed to have been stolen in the car. So not the best witness, in other words. Well, that’s an understatement, because that was why… That was why now he suddenly shows up, and they know all this. The FBI agents that obviously know all this, that’s their witness. That’s their case. To me, it’s an airtight, you know. Yeah. Anyhow, I developed the defense. I went back to see Frank a second time. I flew out to Florida a second time, gave him all this information. [39:48] I had talked to some other people to a number of people that were going to indicate that Harry played golf with them that day see how they remembered not golf but he was at a driving range with them with about five people they remember what they were three or four years three or four years before that what I also found out now, and I didn’t know and it changed my whole attitude on that this wasn’t a mob killing you, This guy that he killed was married to his, I think it was his cousin or some relation was married. I’m pretty sure it was to his cousin. She had told Harry, I got this from Butchie, Butchie Petrosselli, who had become a close friend of mine after I got involved with Harry’s case, his partner. And that was why he killed them, because apparently the sister, his sister-in-law, whatever she was, had told him, you know, when he was beating her up, she had said, well, my Harry Alameda won’t be happy about this. And he said, supposedly, he said, fuck that, Kenny. [41:02] And that’s why the shooting took place. Wow. This changed me. You know, I’m in the middle of it. There’s no getting out of it now. Yeah, they’ll turn it back. And by now, I’m running around all the time with Butch and Mary at night. I’m meeting them at dinner. They’re coming to one of my places where I have dinners all the time. You know, I’m becoming like close friends, close friends with both of them. Yeah. So anyhow, but anyhow, the lawyer that he got, Frank Whalen, who was supposed to be sharp, turned out like he was not in his, let’s just say he was not in his prime. [41:46] Charitable. And when he went in, you know, while the trial was going on, you know, while the trial was going on, I get a call from Frank. From Frank Wilson, because I told him, you don’t come back into the restaurant now. You don’t come back into the restaurant. I used his office as my office all the time, along with a bunch of other judges. I had a phone, but it cost about a dollar a minute to talk on my phone. I had to talk on my phone. So when I’d be at 26th Street in the courthouse, even though no lawyers are allowed back there in the chamber, so I’m back there sitting at his desk using the phone taking care of my own other business. I stopped going in there while the trial was going on. [42:35] So, anyhow, he calls me, and he wants to meet me at a restaurant over on Western Avenue. And, okay, he called me from one of the pay phones out there in front of the courthouse, and I go to meet him. What did he want? Was he complaining about the lawyer, Waylon? What was he complaining about, Waylon? and I was screwing it up. [42:59] When I meet him, I said, you know, he’s like, you know, he said, you know, we go into the bathroom and he and he said he’s all shooken up. He says, this is going to cost me my job. He said, he said, you know, they’re burying him. You’re burying him. You know, because I had given this information on the two witnesses. And he says, Frank Whalen, he said, isn’t doing a thing and cross-examining these people and whatever. [43:32] And he says, and he’s all upset. And I said, Frank, no, I’m shook up one of the few times in my life where it’s something I can’t handle. He had never told me, you know, I’ll fix the case, never. And I said to him, and I said, Frank, I said, if something goes wrong, I said, I’m sure they’re going to kill me, is what I said to him. Yeah. I said, if something goes wrong, I’m sure they’re going to kill me. And I left. I left the bathroom. Now, I have no idea what’s going on in his mind and whatever. Yeah. I see Pat the next day. And by something goes wrong in this case, you mean if he gets found guilty, that’d be what would go wrong and you would get killed. Is that that’s what you mean? Well, no question, because when I met, I didn’t go into that. I met with Harry Alleman. I get a call after I got involved in the case. A couple days later, I get a call from Markle. Meet me at one of the nightclubs where I was all the time at night with these people. [44:47] Above it, you’ve got a motel, a bunch of hotel rooms. I get a call from Markle. The reason everybody loved me and the mob, I never discussed what I was doing with anybody or any of the other dozens of mobsters I run with that I was involved in Harry’s case. Never said a word to anybody about any of this. That was my nature, and that’s why all these people love me. I never talked about one thing with anybody else or whatever. He says, I want to meet you. When I get over there, he says, let’s go upstairs. Somebody wants to talk to you. And we go upstairs, and there’s Harry Alleman. And Harry, how you doing? How are you? [45:27] And he says, listen, you’re sure about this? And I said, yeah. I said, I’m sure. And he said, well, if something goes wrong, you’re going to have a problem. Those were his words to me. You’re going to have a problem. And I said, you know, he says, because this judge, he says, this judge is a straight judge. And he said, Tom, you mean Tom Maloney. He says, and Tom wants to handle my case. And he tells me he’s going to be named a judge by the Supreme Court real soon. And he wants to handle and he wants to handle my case before he… Uh, you know, before he becomes a Supreme court, before he becomes a judge, I knew the moment he told me that I knew for sure that was the case because we control everything, including the Supreme court. I said, you know, I said, don’t, you know, don’t worry about it. I lied to him. And I said, uh, I said, yeah, the judge is going to, I said, yeah, he’s going to throw it out. He knows, I said, he knows what’ll happen if he doesn’t. That’s what I told Harry. I want to keep him happy. [46:34] I’m going to keep him happy probably for a few hours I’m a little nervous and then that’s all behind me like so many other problems I got in the middle of oh my god talking about walking a tightrope so now the lawyer came into Chicago he was in Chicago I met him when he came in he was staying at the Bismarck was at the Bismarck Hotel right around the corner from you know where Counselor’s Row was that’s where he was staying in the in the hotel right there by the first board office and there was a way to go in there without being seen and there was a, You go through another restaurant and you go through the alley and go up there. And I wouldn’t, I didn’t want to be seen walking into there because I know the FBI are probably, are probably watching and whatever. When he comes into town, they handle the case. So I go upstairs to see him. You know, I said, what the hell’s going on in court? He says, I’m going, it’s going great. It’s going great. I said, it’s going great. I just, you know, I just got a call last night. I had to go meet the judge. And he said, you’re not doing any cross-examining. Oh, I’m doing a great job. You know, I’m doing a great job. So after a few minutes of, I leave. Yeah. [47:52] That’s when I saw Pat Marcy, too. And I said, Pat, I said, the judge is upset about whatever’s going on. I said, maybe we should give him some more because I agreed to give him $10,000. And he said, you know, what a piece of work he is. You know, he said $10,000, and that’s all he’s going to get, not a nickel more or whatever. So now to say I’m nervous again is an ultra statement. The case, I walked over, and I wouldn’t go in the room, but I wanted to just be around that room for some reason. FBI agents all over the place. [48:30] FBI agents all over the place. And so now I’m at home and I’m packed. I’ve got my bags packed because if he finds it, I don’t know what he’s going to do. I’m worried he might find him guilty because of all that had happened. He, when the trial ended a given night, and the next day he was going to give the result. In fact, I didn’t go out and play that night. I was a little nervous, and I stayed home, and I packed up my bags. I packed up my bags, and about 9 o’clock, I got in the car, and I started driving. And by the time he gave the ruling, I was probably about 100, maybe 150 miles away. And I hear on the radio, you know, found him not guilty, found him not guilty. So I turn around. Hit the next exit, turn around and come back. I turn around. Northbound on I-55. [49:27] Probably a couple hours later, here I am parked in my parking spot. My parking spot was in front of my office, right across from City Hall. And I parked in the mayor’s spot when she wasn’t there. And drove probably to drive her crazy. But that was where I parked. That was my parking spot. We’d see my big car with the RJC license plates parked in the bus stop. And so here I am. I parked the car and I go in. I go in. [50:01] And I’m sure Pat told some people, probably not, but I’m sure they told all the mobsters, all the top mobsters, because these guys all wanted to meet me afterwards and get the restaurant. I go in to see them. We walked into the janitor’s closet. You walk out of Counselor’s Row. You go to the left. It goes into the 100 North Building. Now, you’ve got the elevators to the right. And behind that, you’ve got a closet where the janitors keep all their stuff. And you’ve got some stairs leading up to the, there was a, what do you call it? There was an office there where the commodities, big commodity exchange was right there. that there was a stairway leading up to where the offices were with some doors with bars and everything on it. And Pat is standing on those stairs, about two or three stairs. You know, I said, wow. I said, you know, everybody’s going nuts. And he goes, well, you know, you did a good job. And he gives me an envelope. He gives me an envelope. And, you know, I put the money in my pocket. [51:09] We said we had some more. We said a couple other words about, you know, this and that. And then I just go in there. I go back in the counselor’s. [51:21] Now, after the feds started getting indictments, did you try and warn the Aleman case judge, Frank Wilson? Why did you do that? And when I went to see Frank Wilson, I went to help him. I said, Frank, I said, look, I said, I was contacted by, I said, I was contacted by the, by the, by the FBI. They were investigating the Harry Aleman case. I said to him, I said, they, they feel the case was fixed. I said, when they come to see me, I said, you know, I said, I’m not going to talk to them. I said, I’m not going to talk to them. I’m going to take the fifth. And in your case, you can do the same thing. When they, if they come to talk to you, you just take the fifth amendment. If they give you immunity, I said, you know, then you, then you testify, but you tell them the truth. I said, don’t worry about me. Tell them the truth. This is how I talk to him. When I’m talking to him like that, it’s almost like he’s trying to run away from me. [52:27] We’re at a restaurant in a big complex. It was in one of those resorts in Arizona. He’s all but running away from me. I was trying to help him. What I said to him was, Frank, I said, the statute of limitations ran on all this. It’s been more than five years. There’s nothing they can do to you or to me, I said, because the statute ran. I said, so don’t lie to them. What the feds were concerned about, and I don’t know why, that he would deny ever fixing the case when it went through. I don’t know why they’re worried about that, but they were, and I didn’t want to see him get in trouble. [53:13] That’s why I went there to protect him. Hey, Bob, you were asked to represent an outfit associate or an outfit associate’s son who was accused of breaking the jaw of a Chicago policewoman. And you know, when a cop is injured in a fight with somebody, the cops follow that case. And I do not want to see any shenanigans going on. So, so tell us about how you walked that line. And I bet those cops were, were not happy with you in the end. Some people think this is a reason you flipped. Take us inside that case, will you? [53:45] And the reason I mentioned that it had a lot to do with what I eventually did. Now we’ll get back to what made me do what I was going to do. When I was practicing law now, and now I have been away from all this for years, I was out of town a lot because I’m representing the Chinese all around the country. I’m their main lawyer right now. [54:10] And I get a call from Lenny Colella. And he says, my son, he said, my son is in trouble. I want to come in and I want to talk to you about handling his case. This was a heater case, too. This was a front page case because he was charged with aggravated battery and attempted murder. Supposedly, he had beat up a policewoman and it was all over the place. He was a drug addict and whatever, supposedly he did all this. And when he came into the office with his dad, he was high. When I talked to him, he’s got his kid with him. And the kid is a smart aleck. As we’re talking, the kid, and I asked the kid, well, whatever. The kid was a smart aleck. And I just said to him, I said, Len, I can’t help you. I said, get him out of here. I want nothing to do with him. I said, I can’t help you. You didn’t take cases that were involved with cops anyhow, for the most part. No. I didn’t know what had happened in this case. I know what I saw in the paper. I didn’t know what the facts or anything were or whatever. I mean, if it turned out that if I felt when I talked to him that he had done it, whatever, I would not have taken the case anyhow. [55:26] I mean, I would not have. That’s why I say, too, that may be, too, why I was as quick and as rude as I was when he came in there and was acting and was a little bit high. I just wanted nothing to do with him, period. I said to his dad, his father said, you know, if I get him cleaned up, you know, I said, well, if you get him cleaned up, then we’ll talk again. I said, but I can’t help him, and I can’t help him. [55:54] And off he goes. the father re-contacted me about a week later. And he said, I had him in rehab and he straightened out and whatever. And he brought him back in and it was a new person. And when he told me the facts of the case, when he told me what happened, because he was a big, tough kid. He was a big, you know, he was a weightlifter, but he was a big, tough looking kid. [56:19] And it’s a little police woman. When he told me what happened, I believed him. Because I’ve been out in the street and whatever. And he says, you know, he told me what happened, that he had gotten stopped. He was out there talking to her. And when she said, you’re under arrest for DUI, he just walked. He says, I walked. I was going to get in my car and drive away. And she grabbed me and was pulling me or whatever. And I hear all these sirens coming. And within a few minutes, there’s all kinds of police. There’s about half a dozen police there. He says, and then they started jumping on me. He said, she was under me. He was all beaten up. He was all bloody and whatever. And she apparently had her jaw broken. And there’s no doubt in my mind when he’s telling me that, you know, when they were hit with his clubs or with this thing that they claimed he had without his fingerprints, it was a metal bar. Right, a slapper. A chunk of lead covered by leather. Everybody used to carry a slapper. How about you carry a slapper? They claimed, but there was no cloth on this. It was just the metal itself. Yeah, oh really? [57:45] Anyhow, that makes it interesting during the trial when they flat out lied. No, he had no blood. I got the hospital reports. They wouldn’t take him in the station because he was too badly beaten up. But anyhow, he also had two other charges. He had been involved in a fight in a bar. And he had been involved in another situation with the police. And he was charged with resisting arrest and battery on a policeman out in Cicero. So he had these three cases. So I gave the father a fee on handling, you know, the one, I was going to, I gave him a fee one case at a time. I said, you know, first thing we’ll do, I want to get rid of those other two cases. I’ll take them to juries, I said. [58:36] I’ll take them to juries because I wasn’t going to put them. I knew both the judges on those cases, but I wasn’t going to put them in a position on a case like that. I take the first case to trial. And I get him a not guilty. That was the fight in the bar. [58:54] That was out in one of the suburbs. That was out in, I’m not sure which suburb, in the northwest side. After we get that case over with, before that case, I get a call from Pat Marcy. Pat Marcy, I hadn’t seen him probably even for a couple months, but I hadn’t talked to him for quite a long period of time. And he says to me, you got a case that just came in. He said, we’re going to handle it. And I said, there’s no need, Pat. I said, I can win these cases. I said, there’s no need. I can win these cases. And he said, we’re going to handle this. The case is going to go to Judge Passarella, he said, and we’ll take care of it. I said, Pat, there’s no need to. I said, I can win these cases. I said, they’re all jury trials, but I know I can win them all. And he says, you do as you’re told. Pat had never talked to me like that before. [59:54] Powerful as he was and crazy as I am, And he never, you know, you never demand that I do anything or whatever. We had a different type relationship. And although I hadn’t broken away from them by now, it’s been years. I had broken away from them for about, you know, two, three years. And he says, you know, take the case to trial. I said, well, he’s got some other cases, too, and I’m going to take the one. And she says, I’ll take it to a jury, and I’ll win it. You’ll see how I win it. I take her to trial, and I get her not guilty. The second case was set for trial about a month after that. Not even, yeah, about a month or so after that. And during that time, a couple of times I’m in counselors, and Pat says, when are you going to take the case to trial? I said, well, Pat, you know, I won the one case. I got the other case on trial, and it was before Judge Stillo. He was a judge that we eventually indicted. [1:00:51] Stillo was very, very well connected to the first ward. He’s one of the old-time judges out in Maywood. And I told him, you know, when I came in there, he assumed I’d take it to trial and he’d throw it out. And I said, no, no, no, there’s no need to. I says, I’m going to take the jury on this one. Number one, I had stopped fixing things long before this. And, but he was, to make money, he was willing that he would have thrown the case out. It was a battery with a Cicero policeman. And I says, no, no, I’ll take it. I’ll take it to, you know, I’ll take the jury. I said, I don’t want to put you in that pursuit. Oh, don’t worry about me. I take that one to trial and I win that one too. Now Pat calls me, when the hell are you going to take the case to trial? And that’s the original case with the police woman. That’s the main one. The main one. Okay, go ahead. [1:01:44] When are you going to take it to trial? And I don’t want to take it to trial. In fact. I had talked to the prosecutor, and I said, look, I said, because he was charged with, he was charged with, you know, attempted murder and arrest. I said, if you’ll reduce it, the prosecutor was an idiot. He knew me, should have realized that, you know, that I never lose cases. Yeah. You know, but I want to work out something. He was a special prosecutor on it. He said, we’re not going to reduce it. We said, you know, if you want to work out a plea, we went five years, we went five to ten or whatever in the penitentiary. And I said, well, that’s not going to happen. I said, well, then we’ll just have to go to trial. So now, while I’m at Counselor’s Row, on one of my many occasions, because I was still having some card games over there at somebody else’s other lawyer’s office, because I had had big card games going on there for years. I’m sitting at the counselor’s row table, and Judge Passarella comes in. There’s just him and me there, and when he comes in, I say, Oh, you’re here to see Pat? [1:02:56] And he goes, Pat, who? No more conversation. Who the fuck? No more. The guy’s treating me like I’m some kind of a fool or whatever. And I developed an instant disliking to him. I had never seen him around that much or whatever before that. So now, after the second case, you’re going to go to, you know. So I talked to Lenny. When Lenny came in, Lenny came in with him when we were starting to get prepared for the case. And, oh, this is before this is before I talked to the prosecutor. And I said, Lenny, I said, I says, if I can get it reduced to a misdemeanor, to a misdemeanor. I said, you know, can we work with, you know, and work out a plea, let’s say, for maybe a month or two, you know, a month or two. Is that OK with you? Oh, sure. He says, oh, sure. [1:03:57] Now, this Lenny, this was the kid’s dad, your client’s dad. This is his dad. Now, explain who he was, who Lenny was. His dad was. What’s his last name? Yeah, Karela. Karela, okay. Lenny Karela, I’m pretty sure was his name. He owned a big bakery out there in Elmwood Park area. Okay. And he was friendly with all the mobsters. Okay, all right. I got you. For all I knew, he may have been a mobster himself, but I mean, he may have been because we had thousands of people that were connected. He was a connected guy. All right, go ahead. I’m sorry. And he said, oh, yeah, sure, no, not a problem because the papers are meant, they’re still, after a year, they’re still mentioning that case will be going to trial soon and every so often. [1:04:43] What I had also done, I tried to make contact with the policewoman, not with her, but I put the word out and I knew a lot of police and I got a hold of somebody that did know her. And I said, look, I said, no, the case is fixed if I want it. Yeah. But I don’t want it. Even though I know that, you know, that it’s all BS, you know, I said, look, I said, get a hold of her and get a hold of her lawyer and tell them if they want to file a lawsuit, you know, you know, we can, they can get themselves some money on it. Uh, you know, he’ll indicate, you know, he’ll, he’ll, he’ll indicate that, you know, he, he was guilty or whatever, but I wanted to get her some money. The word I get back is tell him that piece of shit, meaning me to drop dead, to drop dead. You know, we’re going to put this guy in prison and that’s where he should be too. When the case now, now when the case goes to trial. [1:05:48] The coppers lied like hell and talk about stupid. I’ve got the police reports there. When they took him into the police station, they wouldn’t take him. The station said take him to a hospital. He goes to the hospital and the reports, you know, bleeding here, bleeding there, and, you know, marks here, marks there. They beat the hell out of him. [1:06:10] You know, nobody touched him. You know, nobody touched him. Nobody touched him. Was he bleeding? No, no, he wasn’t. He wasn’t bleeding. Didn’t have any, you know, along with, you know, along with everything else. Flat out lied. How many policemen were there? There were two or three. There were about 10 by the time it’s over. But it’s an absolute throwout. Any fingerprints on that metal? Well, we had some fingerprints, but not his. And on and on it went. It’s a throwout case to start with. The courtroom now where the case was, was very interesting. You walk in there, and when you walk in there, there’s about 20 people that can sit. And then there’s, it’s the only courtroom in the building where you have a wall, a glass wall, all the way up, all the way up. Covering in the door, opens up and goes in there. You go in there. It’s a big courtroom. A bunch of benches now in there. You go to the left, and here’s the judge’s chambers. You come out of the chambers, and you walk up about four steps. And here the desk is on like a podium. And it’s not where all the others are, you know, where you look straight forward. It’s over on the side. It’s over, you know, to the left as you walk out of his chambers. [1:07:40] When the judge listens to the case he goes in there I’ll come up back with my ruling he comes out about 10 minutes later he walks up the steps, And now he turns off the microphone. Somebody turns off the microphone so the people in the back can’t hear anything. The ones inside there can, you know, can hear. The one back there can’t hear anything because it’s all enclosed. [1:08:11] That’s why they got the microphone back there. Somebody shut it off. He says, basically, I’m not guilty in a real strange voice. And all but runs off the all but run and don’t ask me why this is what he did all but runs off all but runs off into the into his chambers, you know he’s afraid all those cops out in the audience were going to come and charge the stand I guess and put a whack on him. [1:08:43] But think about it this is Chicago he’s with the bad guys but I’m just saying I don’t know why he did all that, but that’s what he did. And so now, as I come walking out with Mike, and they’re all in uniform, and most of them are in uniform, and then you’ve got the press and all kinds of cameras and whatever there. And as I come walking out along with him, some of these guys I know, and these jerk-offs are like calling me names and whatever. I go, I go see Pat. [1:09:23] And when I go back into Counselor’s Row now, he’s there at the table. And when I come in, it’s a repeat of the Harry Allerman thing. He walks out. He walks directly. And I’m following him, and he walks in. He goes back into the same janitor’s closet and stands on the same steps just above me, you know, talking to me. And I said to him I said this judge is going to have a problem, I said, he’s going to have a problem. I said, what if he says something? And he said to me, nobody would dare. He said, nobody would dare cooperate against us. They know what would happen. Or words to that effect. And don’t ask me why. So many other things had happened before this. But now I’m looking at him and I’m thinking, you know, somebody’s got to stop this craziness. All this stuff. I’m thinking that at the moment, but then I’m worried for some reason, I think he can read my mind. [1:10:34] Stupid as all of this seems, I’m afraid to think that anymore. I’m almost, you know, cause Pat’s such a powerful person and every sense I know, I know his power, but anyhow, so I leave. And like I say, 10, 15 minutes later, that’s all forgotten about. He paid me the rest of the money I was supposed to get from them. [1:10:56] Obviously, he wanted to do it because he was probably charging a lot of money. That’s why he didn’t want me to take things. He wanted to collect the money because while the case was going on too, he puts me in touch with the head of the probation department because he was able to help in some way. He knew some of the, you know, some of the, some of the policemen involved in the thing had been contacted too. Yeah. But they were contacted and they messed up by, you know, they messed up by lying about all that. Yeah. When there’s police reports saying, oh, no, but anyhow, that was that particular case. Tell us why you decided to flip. [1:11:38] These had been your friends. You knew you had explosive information. You knew as a lawyer, you knew what you had to say would send these people to prison for many, many years. if not life. It had to be hard. As other things happened, why did I commit the, Probably two or three other times things happened. But the most important thing was to think when my dad was dying, and I was very close to my dad. When my dad was dyi

God With Us | God Appeared - Davide Colletta by MCC

Jeffrey Epstein's time at the Metropolitan Correctional Center (MCC) in Manhattan was marked by extraordinary irregularities that immediately set his detention apart from that of ordinary federal inmates. After his July 2019 arrest on federal sex trafficking charges, Epstein was placed in the Special Housing Unit, officially for his own protection, but the conditions of that confinement were riddled with contradictions. He was housed in a unit that was understaffed, plagued by malfunctioning cameras, and run by a Bureau of Prisons already under scrutiny for mismanagement. Despite being classified as a high-risk inmate due to the seriousness of the charges, his wealth, and the potential exposure of powerful associates, Epstein was repeatedly removed from standard suicide watch protocols. He was briefly placed on suicide watch after being found injured in his cell in late July, then taken off it under circumstances that were never convincingly explained, returning to a unit where basic safeguards were visibly failing.The failures at MCC culminated in Epstein's death on August 10, 2019, when he was found unresponsive in his cell, officially ruled a suicide by hanging. On the night of his death, guards assigned to check on him allegedly fell asleep and failed to perform required welfare checks, while security cameras outside his cell were either broken or produced unusable footage. His cellmate had been transferred out shortly before his death, leaving Epstein alone despite prior concerns about self-harm. The combination of staffing shortages, ignored protocols, missing or nonfunctional surveillance, and a pattern of administrative negligence created a perfect storm that has fueled widespread skepticism about the official narrative. Epstein's death at MCC did not close the case; instead, it intensified public distrust in the federal prison system and reinforced the perception that even in custody, Epstein remained surrounded by institutional failure and unanswered questions.The warden in charge of the Metropolitan Correctional Center (MCC) at the time of Jeffrey Epstein's death, Lamine N'Diaye, was reassigned and eventually quietly retired amid ongoing scrutiny and federal investigations into the circumstances surrounding the high-profile inmate's suicide. After Epstein was found dead in August 2019, Attorney General William Barr ordered the warden removed from MCC and reassigned to a Bureau of Prisons regional office while the Department of Justice and Inspector General probed the facility's lapses. Although there were efforts within the Bureau of Prisons to move him to other posts — including as acting warden at another federal facility — those moves became entangled with the unresolved investigations, and N'Diaye ultimately stepped away from his role quietly as the inquiries continued, with little public explanation or high-profile disciplinary action.

The lead-up to the closure of the Metropolitan Correctional Center in Manhattan was shaped by years of mounting crises that long predated Jeffrey Epstein's death but were dramatically amplified afterward. MCC had become infamous for chronic staffing shortages, crumbling infrastructure, frequent lockdowns, and extended power outages that left inmates in freezing cells without light, heat, or reliable access to counsel. Judges, defense attorneys, and federal prosecutors repeatedly complained that conditions at MCC interfered with constitutional rights and basic human safety. After Epstein's death exposed systemic failures—nonfunctioning cameras, falsified guard logs, and gross supervisory breakdowns—scrutiny intensified. Internal Bureau of Prisons audits, DOJ Inspector General reports, and sustained public pressure painted a picture of a facility that was not merely mismanaged but structurally incapable of safe operation, accelerating calls for its permanent shutdown.The actual closure of MCC was announced by the Bureau of Prisons in 2021 and carried out in phases, with detainees gradually transferred to other federal facilities in Brooklyn and across the region. Officials cited the age of the building, extensive maintenance backlogs, and the prohibitive cost of necessary repairs as justification, effectively conceding that the jail was beyond saving. By mid-2021, MCC was fully closed, ending nearly five decades of operation in lower Manhattan. While the Bureau framed the move as an administrative and financial decision, the closure was widely understood as the final consequence of years of neglect and the reputational damage stemming from Epstein's death. MCC did not close quietly because it was obsolete; it closed because its failures had become impossible to ignore, leaving behind a symbol of institutional collapse at the heart of the federal detention system.to contact me:bobbycapucci!@protonmail.com

In his 2025 congressional deposition, Bill Barr largely reiterated the position he has maintained since leaving office: that Jeffrey Epstein died by suicide and that there was no evidence of homicide or outside interference. Barr emphasized the findings of the medical examiner, the DOJ's internal reviews, and the conclusions reached by the FBI and Bureau of Prisons investigations, framing the failures at MCC as severe negligence rather than conspiracy. He acknowledged the catastrophic breakdowns in staffing, camera coverage, and supervision but resisted claims that those failures pointed to intentional misconduct. Throughout the deposition, Barr portrayed the persistence of alternative theories as driven more by public mistrust and the extraordinary nature of Epstein's crimes than by substantiated evidence uncovered during federal reviews.That explanation, however, did little to quiet long-standing skepticism surrounding Barr's narrative. Lawmakers pressed him on the speed and certainty with which he publicly declared Epstein's death a suicide, the reliance on internal investigations rather than independent inquiries, and the unresolved questions created by missing footage, altered records, and contradictory statements from jail officials. Critics noted that Epstein's unique status, political connections, and intelligence-adjacent history make the “ordinary negligence” explanation difficult for many to accept, especially given the stakes involved. The deposition ultimately underscored a central tension that has followed the case for years: Barr insists the matter is settled by evidence and procedure, while a significant portion of the public—and some members of Congress—remain unconvinced that the full truth about Epstein's death has ever been disclosed.to contact  me:bobbycapucci@protonmail.comBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-epstein-chronicles--5003294/support.

Mark Epstein has consistently argued that the official account of his brother Jeffrey Epstein's death in federal custody is inadequate and incomplete, repeatedly calling for a far more robust, independent investigation. He has publicly questioned the findings of the New York City medical examiner, emphasizing that the determination of suicide was not unanimous and that at least one prominent forensic pathologist concluded the injuries were more consistent with homicide. Mark Epstein has also pointed to the extraordinary number of failures at the Metropolitan Correctional Center on the night of Jeffrey Epstein's death, including malfunctioning cameras, guards who allegedly fell asleep, and lapses in required welfare checks. In his view, these breakdowns were too numerous and consequential to be dismissed as mere coincidence. He has stressed that his concerns are not rooted in defending his brother's crimes, but in establishing what actually happened in a federal facility that was supposed to be under constant supervision. For Mark Epstein, unanswered questions surrounding the death undermine public trust in the justice system. He has maintained that transparency, not closure, should be the priority.Beyond disputing the medical and custodial conclusions, Mark Epstein has repeatedly criticized the scope and depth of the federal response, arguing that investigations have focused more on ending scrutiny than resolving contradictions. He has called for a fully independent inquiry with subpoena power, one that examines not only the immediate circumstances of the death but also potential external pressures, conflicts of interest, and institutional incentives to avoid embarrassment or liability. Mark Epstein has also questioned why no senior officials faced serious consequences despite the acknowledged failures at MCC, framing this lack of accountability as emblematic of a broader reluctance to confront uncomfortable truths. He has stated that without a comprehensive investigation, suspicions will persist regardless of official statements or reports. His continued advocacy reflects a belief that the case has been prematurely closed rather than thoroughly resolved. In his view, the handling of his brother's death represents a missed opportunity for institutional reckoning. Until those gaps are addressed, Mark Epstein has said, the public will be left with doubt rather than facts.to contact me:bobbycapucci@protonmail.comBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-moscow-murders-and-more--5852883/support.

Machias Community Church The meaning of Life, Christianity, the Bible,God (and Christmas?) Do we know it? Understand it? Live it? Matthew 22:36-40 Tim Henle MCC Preaching Elder

Mark Epstein has consistently argued that the official account of his brother Jeffrey Epstein's death in federal custody is inadequate and incomplete, repeatedly calling for a far more robust, independent investigation. He has publicly questioned the findings of the New York City medical examiner, emphasizing that the determination of suicide was not unanimous and that at least one prominent forensic pathologist concluded the injuries were more consistent with homicide. Mark Epstein has also pointed to the extraordinary number of failures at the Metropolitan Correctional Center on the night of Jeffrey Epstein's death, including malfunctioning cameras, guards who allegedly fell asleep, and lapses in required welfare checks. In his view, these breakdowns were too numerous and consequential to be dismissed as mere coincidence. He has stressed that his concerns are not rooted in defending his brother's crimes, but in establishing what actually happened in a federal facility that was supposed to be under constant supervision. For Mark Epstein, unanswered questions surrounding the death undermine public trust in the justice system. He has maintained that transparency, not closure, should be the priority.Beyond disputing the medical and custodial conclusions, Mark Epstein has repeatedly criticized the scope and depth of the federal response, arguing that investigations have focused more on ending scrutiny than resolving contradictions. He has called for a fully independent inquiry with subpoena power, one that examines not only the immediate circumstances of the death but also potential external pressures, conflicts of interest, and institutional incentives to avoid embarrassment or liability. Mark Epstein has also questioned why no senior officials faced serious consequences despite the acknowledged failures at MCC, framing this lack of accountability as emblematic of a broader reluctance to confront uncomfortable truths. He has stated that without a comprehensive investigation, suspicions will persist regardless of official statements or reports. His continued advocacy reflects a belief that the case has been prematurely closed rather than thoroughly resolved. In his view, the handling of his brother's death represents a missed opportunity for institutional reckoning. Until those gaps are addressed, Mark Epstein has said, the public will be left with doubt rather than facts.to contact me:bobbycapucci@protonmail.com

Jeffrey Epstein's time at the Metropolitan Correctional Center (MCC) in Manhattan was marked by extraordinary irregularities that immediately set his detention apart from that of ordinary federal inmates. After his July 2019 arrest on federal sex trafficking charges, Epstein was placed in the Special Housing Unit, officially for his own protection, but the conditions of that confinement were riddled with contradictions. He was housed in a unit that was understaffed, plagued by malfunctioning cameras, and run by a Bureau of Prisons already under scrutiny for mismanagement. Despite being classified as a high-risk inmate due to the seriousness of the charges, his wealth, and the potential exposure of powerful associates, Epstein was repeatedly removed from standard suicide watch protocols. He was briefly placed on suicide watch after being found injured in his cell in late July, then taken off it under circumstances that were never convincingly explained, returning to a unit where basic safeguards were visibly failing.The failures at MCC culminated in Epstein's death on August 10, 2019, when he was found unresponsive in his cell, officially ruled a suicide by hanging. On the night of his death, guards assigned to check on him allegedly fell asleep and failed to perform required welfare checks, while security cameras outside his cell were either broken or produced unusable footage. His cellmate had been transferred out shortly before his death, leaving Epstein alone despite prior concerns about self-harm. The combination of staffing shortages, ignored protocols, missing or nonfunctional surveillance, and a pattern of administrative negligence created a perfect storm that has fueled widespread skepticism about the official narrative. Epstein's death at MCC did not close the case; instead, it intensified public distrust in the federal prison system and reinforced the perception that even in custody, Epstein remained surrounded by institutional failure and unanswered questions.The warden in charge of the Metropolitan Correctional Center (MCC) at the time of Jeffrey Epstein's death, Lamine N'Diaye, was reassigned and eventually quietly retired amid ongoing scrutiny and federal investigations into the circumstances surrounding the high-profile inmate's suicide. After Epstein was found dead in August 2019, Attorney General William Barr ordered the warden removed from MCC and reassigned to a Bureau of Prisons regional office while the Department of Justice and Inspector General probed the facility's lapses. Although there were efforts within the Bureau of Prisons to move him to other posts — including as acting warden at another federal facility — those moves became entangled with the unresolved investigations, and N'Diaye ultimately stepped away from his role quietly as the inquiries continued, with little public explanation or high-profile disciplinary action.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-moscow-murders-and-more--5852883/support.

The lead-up to the closure of the Metropolitan Correctional Center in Manhattan was shaped by years of mounting crises that long predated Jeffrey Epstein's death but were dramatically amplified afterward. MCC had become infamous for chronic staffing shortages, crumbling infrastructure, frequent lockdowns, and extended power outages that left inmates in freezing cells without light, heat, or reliable access to counsel. Judges, defense attorneys, and federal prosecutors repeatedly complained that conditions at MCC interfered with constitutional rights and basic human safety. After Epstein's death exposed systemic failures—nonfunctioning cameras, falsified guard logs, and gross supervisory breakdowns—scrutiny intensified. Internal Bureau of Prisons audits, DOJ Inspector General reports, and sustained public pressure painted a picture of a facility that was not merely mismanaged but structurally incapable of safe operation, accelerating calls for its permanent shutdown.The actual closure of MCC was announced by the Bureau of Prisons in 2021 and carried out in phases, with detainees gradually transferred to other federal facilities in Brooklyn and across the region. Officials cited the age of the building, extensive maintenance backlogs, and the prohibitive cost of necessary repairs as justification, effectively conceding that the jail was beyond saving. By mid-2021, MCC was fully closed, ending nearly five decades of operation in lower Manhattan. While the Bureau framed the move as an administrative and financial decision, the closure was widely understood as the final consequence of years of neglect and the reputational damage stemming from Epstein's death. MCC did not close quietly because it was obsolete; it closed because its failures had become impossible to ignore, leaving behind a symbol of institutional collapse at the heart of the federal detention system.to contact me:bobbycapucci!@protonmail.comBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-moscow-murders-and-more--5852883/support.

Mark Epstein has consistently argued that the official account of his brother Jeffrey Epstein's death in federal custody is inadequate and incomplete, repeatedly calling for a far more robust, independent investigation. He has publicly questioned the findings of the New York City medical examiner, emphasizing that the determination of suicide was not unanimous and that at least one prominent forensic pathologist concluded the injuries were more consistent with homicide. Mark Epstein has also pointed to the extraordinary number of failures at the Metropolitan Correctional Center on the night of Jeffrey Epstein's death, including malfunctioning cameras, guards who allegedly fell asleep, and lapses in required welfare checks. In his view, these breakdowns were too numerous and consequential to be dismissed as mere coincidence. He has stressed that his concerns are not rooted in defending his brother's crimes, but in establishing what actually happened in a federal facility that was supposed to be under constant supervision. For Mark Epstein, unanswered questions surrounding the death undermine public trust in the justice system. He has maintained that transparency, not closure, should be the priority.Beyond disputing the medical and custodial conclusions, Mark Epstein has repeatedly criticized the scope and depth of the federal response, arguing that investigations have focused more on ending scrutiny than resolving contradictions. He has called for a fully independent inquiry with subpoena power, one that examines not only the immediate circumstances of the death but also potential external pressures, conflicts of interest, and institutional incentives to avoid embarrassment or liability. Mark Epstein has also questioned why no senior officials faced serious consequences despite the acknowledged failures at MCC, framing this lack of accountability as emblematic of a broader reluctance to confront uncomfortable truths. He has stated that without a comprehensive investigation, suspicions will persist regardless of official statements or reports. His continued advocacy reflects a belief that the case has been prematurely closed rather than thoroughly resolved. In his view, the handling of his brother's death represents a missed opportunity for institutional reckoning. Until those gaps are addressed, Mark Epstein has said, the public will be left with doubt rather than facts.to contact me:bobbycapucci@protonmail.comBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-epstein-chronicles--5003294/support.

Mit jelent a történelmi empátia, és miben több az egyszerű együttérzésnél? Hogyan segíti a történelmi gondolkodás fejlődését, és miként jelenhet meg mindez a történelemórákon?Az adásban Jeszenszki Kornélia beszélget Dr. Fodor Richárddal és Dr. Fekete Áronnal, az MCC Tanuláskutató Intézet Compass to History Education and Historical Thinking kutatócsoportjának tagjaival. A podcast epizódban szó esik a kutatócsoport munkájáról, a projekt hátteréről és eredményeiről, valamint egy 2025-ben megjelent módszertani kiadványról.A beszélgetés még bemutatja, hogyan fejleszthető a történelmi empátia az iskolai oktatásban, milyen feladattípusok segítik ezt, és miként használhatók a kiadványban szereplő, gyakorló történelemtanárok által kidolgozott feladatmodulok.Szereplők:Fodor Richárd – Tanuláskutató Intézet kutatásvezetőjeFekete Áron - Tanuláskutató Intézet kutatójaJeszenszki Kornélia – Tanuláskutató Intézet kutatójaAz MCC Podcast adásaiban érdekes emberekkel izgalmas témákról beszélgetünk. Feldolgozzuk a közélet, a gazdaság, a társadalom fontosabb aktuális történéseit, de olyan kérdéseket is napirendre veszünk, mint például a művészet, a család vagy a vallás. Vendégeink között oktatóink, kutatóink, vendégelőadóink kapnak helyet. Mindenkinek kellemes időtöltést és szellemi feltöltődést kívánunk.

Jeffrey Epstein's time at the Metropolitan Correctional Center (MCC) in Manhattan was marked by extraordinary irregularities that immediately set his detention apart from that of ordinary federal inmates. After his July 2019 arrest on federal sex trafficking charges, Epstein was placed in the Special Housing Unit, officially for his own protection, but the conditions of that confinement were riddled with contradictions. He was housed in a unit that was understaffed, plagued by malfunctioning cameras, and run by a Bureau of Prisons already under scrutiny for mismanagement. Despite being classified as a high-risk inmate due to the seriousness of the charges, his wealth, and the potential exposure of powerful associates, Epstein was repeatedly removed from standard suicide watch protocols. He was briefly placed on suicide watch after being found injured in his cell in late July, then taken off it under circumstances that were never convincingly explained, returning to a unit where basic safeguards were visibly failing.The failures at MCC culminated in Epstein's death on August 10, 2019, when he was found unresponsive in his cell, officially ruled a suicide by hanging. On the night of his death, guards assigned to check on him allegedly fell asleep and failed to perform required welfare checks, while security cameras outside his cell were either broken or produced unusable footage. His cellmate had been transferred out shortly before his death, leaving Epstein alone despite prior concerns about self-harm. The combination of staffing shortages, ignored protocols, missing or nonfunctional surveillance, and a pattern of administrative negligence created a perfect storm that has fueled widespread skepticism about the official narrative. Epstein's death at MCC did not close the case; instead, it intensified public distrust in the federal prison system and reinforced the perception that even in custody, Epstein remained surrounded by institutional failure and unanswered questions.The warden in charge of the Metropolitan Correctional Center (MCC) at the time of Jeffrey Epstein's death, Lamine N'Diaye, was reassigned and eventually quietly retired amid ongoing scrutiny and federal investigations into the circumstances surrounding the high-profile inmate's suicide. After Epstein was found dead in August 2019, Attorney General William Barr ordered the warden removed from MCC and reassigned to a Bureau of Prisons regional office while the Department of Justice and Inspector General probed the facility's lapses. Although there were efforts within the Bureau of Prisons to move him to other posts — including as acting warden at another federal facility — those moves became entangled with the unresolved investigations, and N'Diaye ultimately stepped away from his role quietly as the inquiries continued, with little public explanation or high-profile disciplinary action.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-epstein-chronicles--5003294/support.

The lead-up to the closure of the Metropolitan Correctional Center in Manhattan was shaped by years of mounting crises that long predated Jeffrey Epstein's death but were dramatically amplified afterward. MCC had become infamous for chronic staffing shortages, crumbling infrastructure, frequent lockdowns, and extended power outages that left inmates in freezing cells without light, heat, or reliable access to counsel. Judges, defense attorneys, and federal prosecutors repeatedly complained that conditions at MCC interfered with constitutional rights and basic human safety. After Epstein's death exposed systemic failures—nonfunctioning cameras, falsified guard logs, and gross supervisory breakdowns—scrutiny intensified. Internal Bureau of Prisons audits, DOJ Inspector General reports, and sustained public pressure painted a picture of a facility that was not merely mismanaged but structurally incapable of safe operation, accelerating calls for its permanent shutdown.The actual closure of MCC was announced by the Bureau of Prisons in 2021 and carried out in phases, with detainees gradually transferred to other federal facilities in Brooklyn and across the region. Officials cited the age of the building, extensive maintenance backlogs, and the prohibitive cost of necessary repairs as justification, effectively conceding that the jail was beyond saving. By mid-2021, MCC was fully closed, ending nearly five decades of operation in lower Manhattan. While the Bureau framed the move as an administrative and financial decision, the closure was widely understood as the final consequence of years of neglect and the reputational damage stemming from Epstein's death. MCC did not close quietly because it was obsolete; it closed because its failures had become impossible to ignore, leaving behind a symbol of institutional collapse at the heart of the federal detention system.to contact me:bobbycapucci!@protonmail.comBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-epstein-chronicles--5003294/support.

Az ünnepek idején a meghittség, az együttlét és a hagyományok kerülnek előtérbe – de mit jelentenek ezek a fogalmak a 21. század embere számára? Miért vált a karácsony sokak számára inkább a megfelelési kényszerek, belső feszültségek és túlzott elvárások időszakává? És vajon hogyan tudnánk visszatalálni az ünnep eredeti, mélyebb jelentéséhez?A nyilvános előadás más világvallások Jézus-képével, valamint Nyugaton a karácsonyhoz való hozzáállásukkal foglalkozik, külön kitérve a fogyasztói társadalom adventi szokásaira is. Emellett középpontba állítja a karácsonyi népi hagyományokat, és azok pszichológiai, társadalmi hatásait. Az előadók közösen keresik a választ arra, hogyan élhetjük meg az ünnepet hitelesen, lélektanilag is felszabadultan, a modern világ kihívásai között.Az esemény nyitott minden érdeklődő számára – szeretettel várunk mindenkit, akit foglalkoztat, hogyan találhat vissza az ünnep a szívhez, az ember pedig önmagához.Előadó(k):- Dr. Nagypál Szabolcs, az MCC Jog és Társadalom Műhelyének vezetője, jogász, teológus- Fenyves Krisztián, az MCC Jog és Társadalom Műhelyének kutatója, teológus- Horvát Ákos, plébániai kormányzó a gombosi Szent László Király plébánián és a doroszlói Szent Imre plébánián, valamint a doroszlói Mária, Keresztények Segítsége Egyházmegyei Kegyhely igazgatójaAz MCC Podcast adásaiban érdekes emberekkel izgalmas témákról beszélgetünk. Feldolgozzuk a közélet, a gazdaság, a társadalom fontosabb aktuális történéseit, de olyan kérdéseket is napirendre veszünk, mint például a művészet, a család vagy a vallás. Vendégeink között oktatóink, kutatóink, vendégelőadóink kapnak helyet. Mindenkinek kellemes időtöltést és szellemi feltöltődést kívánunk.

Maria Gallucci is a multi-award-winning real estate agent and proud CODA (Child of Deaf Adults). Growing up as one of six hearing children raised by Deaf parents, she learned ASL before English and helped her parents buy a home at just 12 years old. How did "Raised in Silence" teach you profound lessons on listening and love? Why do people struggle to connect in a hearing-centered world? What from your childhood inspired you to help others feel understood? What is "Deaf Gain" and how can it help build stronger relationships in leadership? What mindset shift turns awkwardness into a genuine connection? Maria Gallucci Maria Gallucci is a multi-award-winning real estate agent and proud CODA (Child of Deaf Adults). Growing up as one of six hearing children raised by Deaf parents, she learned ASL before English and helped her parents buy a home at just 12 years old. This experience shaped her passion for inclusive communication and helping those who are often overlooked. Excellent Executive Coaching Podcast If you have enjoyed this episode, subscribe to our podcast on iTunes. We would love for you to leave a review. The EEC podcasts are sponsored by MKB Excellent Executive Coaching, which helps you get from where you are to where you want to be with customized leadership and coaching development programs. MKB Excellent Executive Coaching offers leadership development programs to generate action, learning, and change that is aligned with your authentic self and values. Transform your dreams into reality and invest in yourself by scheduling a discovery session with Dr. Katrina Burrus, MCC, to reach your goals. Your host is Dr. Katrina Burrus, MCC, founder and general manager of Excellent Executive Coaching, a company that specializes in leadership development.

Miért fontos a klasszikus neveléssel foglalkozni? Milyen értékeket képvisel ez az oktatási irányzat?  Többek között ezekre a kérdésekre ad választ a Visszatérés a klasszikus neveléshez című könyv, amely december 17-től lesz megtalálható a Libri polcain. A Tanuláskutató Intézet legfrissebb podcastjében Hegyi Lili Gerda beszélget Dr. Fodor Richárd kutatásvezetővel, egyetemi tanárral, aki közösen szerkesztette a könyvet Joanna Williamsszel. Az epizódban fény derül arra, hogy hogyan születik meg egy országokon átívelő együttműködés eredményeként létrejövő könyv, hogyan állja meg a helyét a klasszikus nevelés a 21. században, illetve szó esik a Tanuláskutató Intézet további projektjeiről is. Szereplők:Fodor Richárd – Tanuláskutató Intézet kutatásvezetőjeHegyi Lili Gerda – MCC Média iskola diákja, Tanuláskutató Intézet mentoráltjaAz MCC Podcast adásaiban érdekes emberekkel izgalmas témákról beszélgetünk. Feldolgozzuk a közélet, a gazdaság, a társadalom fontosabb aktuális történéseit, de olyan kérdéseket is napirendre veszünk, mint például a művészet, a család vagy a vallás. Vendégeink között oktatóink, kutatóink, vendégelőadóink kapnak helyet. Mindenkinek kellemes időtöltést és szellemi feltöltődést kívánunk.

Fu Banger sits down to breakdown his involvement with the Nine Trey Gangsters, surviving Rikers, and navigating the federal system after the 6ix9ine RICO case exploded. He details what really happened inside Manhattan Correctional Center's SHU the night Jeffrey Epstein died — what he saw, what inmates were saying, and why the entire unit felt off. Fu also explains why he believes 6ix9ine staged his recent “home invasion robbery,” and gives his honest reaction to Diddy's viral prison photos and the trouble they may bring. He opens up about his time at a federal low-security prison, including how the yard handled high-risk inmates, predators, and those with serious charges, and what daily life at a low really looks like. #FuBanger #NineTrey #RICOCase #6ix9ine #Epstein #PrisonStories #TrueCrimePodcast #lockedinwithianbick Thanks to AURA FRAMES, BLUECHEW & PRIZEPICKS for sponsoring this episode: Aura Frames: Exclusive $35 off Carver Mat at https://on.auraframes.com/LOCKEDIN. Promo Code LOCKEDIN Prizepicks: Visit https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/IANBICK and use code IANBICK and get $50 in lineups when you play your first $5 lineup! Connect with FU Banger: https://www.instagram.com/fubanger_hob/?hl=en Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Shop Locked In Merch: http://www.ianbick.com/shop Timestamps: 00:00 Tekashi 6ix9ine RICO Case Explained + FU Banger Intro 00:40 Growing Up in Brooklyn: Family, Childhood & the Streets 02:27 Brooklyn School Life, Graffiti Crews & Early Crime 04:55 First Arrests, Juvenile Jail & Learning the System 07:07 Teenage Hustling: Boosting, Independence & Survival 13:46 Returning to NYC & the Barclays Center Incident 14:35 Arrested Again: Federal Charges Begin 15:46 Inside the RICO Case: Prison Calls, Informants & Feds 19:41 Rikers Island: Gangs, Structure & Daily Survival 21:38 Transferred to Federal Custody: MCC & Co-Defendants 24:14 6ix9ine Cooperates: RICO Fallout & Snitching Allegations 27:44 Taking the Plea Deal & Admitting Guilt 32:42 Federal Prison Life in Pennsylvania Explained 35:36 Prison Hustles: Orderly Jobs, Money & Politics 39:00 Prison Culture: Gangs, Cars & Chomos 43:14 Breaking Rules, Discipline & Getting Violated 46:01 Daily Prison Routine: Food, Commissary & Smoking 49:42 Prison Fights, Gambling & The Shoe 54:09 Jeffrey Epstein at MCC & Solitary Confinement Stories 58:51 MCC Lockdowns, Guns & Emergency Transfers 01:02:57 COVID Lockdown in Federal Prison 01:04:42 Getting Out: Reentry, Jobs & Reality After Prison 01:10:07 Life After the Case: Notoriety & Staying Low 01:12:00 Staying Out of Trouble After Prison 01:13:13 Final Thoughts on 6ix9ine, Identity & Survival Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

God With Us | God Prepared - Jim Buchan by MCC

In Part 3 of the Bodyline series, Titus and Mick cover the explosive Adelaide Test, where Bodyline peaked in controversy, leaving Woodfull and Oldfield battered and the crowd near riot. They also explore the series’ fallout - political tensions, media scandals, and the MCC’s response that changed cricket laws forever. If you’d like more Sports Bizarre, become a member of Bizarre Plus. Click here to join today As a member, you’ll get: A weekly bonus podcast Access to all past episodes Exclusive behind-the-scenes access Access to the members-only chatroom Ability to vote on future episodes Early access to any live show tickets See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Machias Community Church The meaning of Life, Christianity, the Bible, and God Do we know it? Understand it? Live it? Matthew 22:36-40 Tim Henle,MCC Preaching Elder

Bill Mersey was incarcerated at the Metropolitan Correctional Center and housed in proximity to Jeffrey Epstein in the weeks leading up to Epstein's death. In post-death interviews, Mersey stated that Epstein did not appear suicidal and seemed focused on fighting his case, discussing legal strategy and future developments rather than despair. Mersey described Epstein as alert, engaged, and concerned with optics and leverage, which cut directly against early official narratives suggesting Epstein was in an obvious mental-health crisis. According to Mersey, Epstein talked about his lawyers, his belief that he had powerful protection, and his expectation that he would eventually get out of trouble, reinforcing the perception that Epstein did not view his situation as hopeless.More critically, Mersey raised serious questions about jail conditions and supervision at MCC, describing a facility riddled with neglect, irregular checks, and a general sense that inmates were largely left to fend for themselves. While not presenting himself as a conspiracy witness, Mersey emphasized how unguarded, chaotic, and poorly monitored the unit felt, especially at night. His account added to a growing body of inmate testimony that undermined claims of a tightly run federal detention environment. Taken together, Mersey's statements didn't prove what happened to Epstein, but they did punch holes in the official storyline by highlighting how little day-to-day control actually existed inside MCC — and how implausible it was that anyone inside the unit believed the system was functioning as advertised.to contact me:bobbycapucci@protonmail.comBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-epstein-chronicles--5003294/support.

Andres Lares is the Managing Partner at Shapiro Negotiations Institute and co-author of Persuade: The 4-Step Process to Influence People and Decisions. What is your four-step process to persuade others? Why do people focus on logic rather than emotion? How can you build credibility quickly? When is the right time to go first in negotiations? What are the five main aspects of emotional intelligence? Andres Lares Andres Lares is the Managing Partner at Shapiro Negotiations Institute and co-author of Persuade: The 4-Step Process to Influence People and Decisions. His expertise ranges from coaching live negotiations for sports clients, including the Cleveland Browns and Brooklyn Nets, to developing online content for facilitating programs in real estate, advisory, media, banking, and pharmaceutical sectors. He is a guest lecturer on negotiation at universities like Johns Hopkins University, has been a contributor to numerous national media outlets, including Forbes, Entrepreneur, Selling Power, and many more. Excellent Executive Coaching Podcast If you have enjoyed this episode, subscribe to our podcast on iTunes. We would love for you to leave a review. The EEC podcasts are sponsored by MKB Excellent Executive Coaching, which helps you get from where you are to where you want to be with customized leadership and coaching development programs. MKB Excellent Executive Coaching offers leadership development programs to generate action, learning, and change that is aligned with your authentic self and values. Transform your dreams into reality and invest in yourself by scheduling a discovery session with Dr. Katrina Burrus, MCC, to reach your goals. Your host is Dr. Katrina Burrus, MCC, founder and general manager of Excellent Executive Coaching, a company that specializes in leadership development.

What happens when coaching meets improv? In this episode, Cathy Sykora speaks with Betsy Salkind and Amy Warshawsky, co-authors of Coaching with a Twist: Improv for Coaches. With backgrounds in health coaching, leadership, somatics, and comedy, Betsy and Amy have created a dynamic and experiential approach to coach training that blends improv exercises with foundational coaching skills. They explain how play and presence deepen learning, increase client connection, and make coaching more effective—and more fun. Whether you're a seasoned coach or just starting out, their fresh take on training and development is both practical and transformative. In this episode, you'll discover: How Betsy and Amy transitioned from mentor coaches to co-creators of an improv-based coaching model The similarities between improv and motivational interviewing Why experiential learning is more "sticky" than traditional training methods How play and improvisation enhance presence, creativity, and emotional regulation Why they created a safe, supportive environment for learning through coaching with a twist A powerful improv exercise called "three-word coaching" you can try today The benefits of supervision and their monthly BNA Coaching Salon Memorable Quotes: "Ultimately, if we are coaching well, we're improvising." "No rules, only happy accidents." "When you're playing and having fun, you are not in fear." Bios:  Betsy Salkind, PCC, NBC-HWC, is a health and mentor coach with expertise in team, group, and leadership coaching. A professional standup comic and TV writer, she trained at the Mayo Clinic and holds an MS in Organization Studies from MIT Sloan. Amy J. Warshawsky, MCC, NBC-HWC, is a leadership and mentor coach known for integrating somatic practices into coaching. She has held roles in nonprofit and higher education, and holds degrees from Northwestern University and Cornell. Together, they co-founded BNA Mentor Coaching and co-authored Coaching with a Twist: Improv for Coaches. Mentioned in This Episode: BNA Mentor Coaching Coaching with a Twist: Improv for Coaches Links to Resources: Health Coach Group Website: thehealthcoachgroup.com (https://www.thehealthcoachgroup.com) Special Offer: Use code HCC50 to save $50 on the Health Coach Group website Leave a Review: If you enjoyed the podcast, please consider leaving a five-star rating or review on Apple Podcasts.

In this week's podcast, we'll talk about how Citi Travel hides thousands of hotels, we'll describe our favorite flights from 2025, and we'll find out who on the FM team is willing to book a 3.5 rated hotel...Giant Mailbag(01:51) - Hyatt Elite Status Hack See episode 334 "Super Stacking Stories " here.Bonvoyed:(07:07) - Citi Travel blocking hotel bookings in Egypt, UAE, Malaysia, and Indonesia (and maybe other places?)Bonvoyed runner-ups(10:15) - PSA: Wyndham book and cancel trick may appear to extend points, but then they may expire anyway(13:02) - Turkish Airlines devalues Miles & Smiles redemptions for US flights(17:52) - British Airways devaluation Dec 15(18:54) - Capital One transfer ratio to Emirates will reduce to 1,000:750 (Jan 13)Awards, Points, and More(20:35) - Citi loses Aeromexico as transfer partner 1/25/26(22:13) - Omni Hotels & Resorts added as Mesa transfer partner(26:36) - Delta Leaves SkyMiles Status Requirements Unchanged For 2026, and Delta Choice benefits changes for 2026(34:36) - United cardholders can earn 2x on rent with Bilt (3% fee applies)(36:58) - Accor → Flying Blue 30% xfer bonusThe lowest hotel ratings we're willing to book(40:51) - What were our favorite flights that we took with points and miles in 2025?(50:17) - What are the FM team's thoughts on the Ink Business Preferred® Credit Card / Ink Business Unlimited® Credit Card train derailing? It seems like the so valuable pool to earn our sweet Hyatt points is drying up.(51:35) - A lot of good Bonvoy'ed options this week. Capital One/Emirates, Turkish, and British Airways... rank them from least worst to worst.(55:52) - Do you have any insight on the United business partner awards between the US and Europe? I'm attempting to book via Aeroplan, but availability seems to have vanished.(57:40) - ​​How the heck do I know what's actually going to earn rewards with the new Chase Sapphire Reserve® Card? Does Chase give MCC codes?(59:16) - Are any of y'all nervous flyers?(1:03:02) - Have you guys ever thought about visiting every single country in the world using points/ miles as much as possible?(1:10:51) - Do you have insight into what Sapphire status gives with Alaska when someone is flying with Alaska or another oneworld partner?(1:17:28) - What would you value more….achieving Bilt Platinum status or ATMOS Gold status (I live in Charlotte, an AA hub)?(1:20:10) - ​​Aloha! In yesterday's coffee break, you spoke about the great deals you found. How do you find when a great sweet spot becomes available? Are you setting alerts for 20+ locations? Scouring every day?(1:23:56) - Now that the Turkish sweet spot to Hawaii has died, are there any other sweet spots worth seeking out in the Turkish program?Read Nick's best use of Turkish Miles and Smiles here.(1:26:18) - How long is too long to spend comparing hotels on websites like flyertalk or reading reviewsSubscribe and FollowVisit https://frequentmiler.com/subscribe/ to get updated on in-depth points and miles content like this, and don't forget to like and follow us on social media.Music Credit – “Ocean Deep” by Annie YoderMentioned in this episode:Check out this month's sponsor and support our showJoin the...

In 1996 everything changed. With the introduction of antiretroviral medications called the “AIDS cocktail,” people started getting better – some dramatically – and surviving AIDS became a real possibility. In the wake of these changes, MCC found itself taking stock of what they lost to AIDS and using what they learned to address larger social issues– from medical marijuana to homelessness. Sometimes these political stances felt heroic and a way to use that collective energy, and other times it made the church very unpopular with the changing Castro neighborhood.    “Freedom is Coming”  is by Anders Nyberg.  “All Things New” is by Rory Cooney. “Blessed Assurance” is by Franny Crosby. “Gloria (Angels We Have Heard on High” is a traditional Christmas hymn.  “The Potter's House” is by V. Michael McKay.  For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-9. Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen. Production credits:  When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/credits. This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org). Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds. The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco's archive. It was performed by MCC-SF's musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Domestic BGM. Special thanks to Tom Ammiano, Tommi Avicolli-Mecca, Stuart Gaffney, John Lewis, Dr. Jen Reck, Matt Sharp, and Dana Van Gorder for their help with this episode.  Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible.   Some links to good groups Lyric Center for LGBTQQ+ Youth The Ali Forney Center The Trevor Project's 2022 report on LGBTQ youth and homelessness Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In 1996 everything changed. With the introduction of antiretroviral medications called the “AIDS cocktail,” people started getting better – some dramatically – and surviving AIDS became a real possibility. In the wake of these changes, MCC found itself taking stock of what they lost to AIDS and using what they learned to address larger social issues– from medical marijuana to homelessness. Sometimes these political stances felt heroic and a way to use that collective energy, and other times it made the church very unpopular with the changing Castro neighborhood.    “Freedom is Coming”  is by Anders Nyberg.  “All Things New” is by Rory Cooney. “Blessed Assurance” is by Franny Crosby. “Gloria (Angels We Have Heard on High” is a traditional Christmas hymn.  “The Potter's House” is by V. Michael McKay.  For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-9. Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen. Production credits:  When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/credits. This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org). Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds. The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco's archive. It was performed by MCC-SF's musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Domestic BGM. Special thanks to Tom Ammiano, Tommi Avicolli-Mecca, Stuart Gaffney, John Lewis, Dr. Jen Reck, Matt Sharp, and Dana Van Gorder for their help with this episode.  Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible.   Some links to good groups Lyric Center for LGBTQQ+ Youth The Ali Forney Center The Trevor Project's 2022 report on LGBTQ youth and homelessness Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In 1996 everything changed. With the introduction of antiretroviral medications called the “AIDS cocktail,” people started getting better – some dramatically – and surviving AIDS became a real possibility. In the wake of these changes, MCC found itself taking stock of what they lost to AIDS and using what they learned to address larger social issues– from medical marijuana to homelessness. Sometimes these political stances felt heroic and a way to use that collective energy, and other times it made the church very unpopular with the changing Castro neighborhood.    “Freedom is Coming”  is by Anders Nyberg.  “All Things New” is by Rory Cooney. “Blessed Assurance” is by Franny Crosby. “Gloria (Angels We Have Heard on High” is a traditional Christmas hymn.  “The Potter's House” is by V. Michael McKay.  For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-9. Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen. Production credits:  When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/credits. This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org). Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds. The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco's archive. It was performed by MCC-SF's musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Domestic BGM. Special thanks to Tom Ammiano, Tommi Avicolli-Mecca, Stuart Gaffney, John Lewis, Dr. Jen Reck, Matt Sharp, and Dana Van Gorder for their help with this episode.  Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible.   Some links to good groups Lyric Center for LGBTQQ+ Youth The Ali Forney Center The Trevor Project's 2022 report on LGBTQ youth and homelessness Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Norman Wolfe is the Founder and CEO of Quantum Leaders, Inc., a strategy execution consulting firm focused on transforming businesses to unlock the power of the human spirit. The Living Organization® System emphasizes treating organizations as dynamic, living entities. How does this approach differ from traditional business paradigms, and how does it impact strategy execution? How can leaders create a culture where employees feel both valued and aligned with the company's mission? Leadership can often feel lonely at the top. Why? What strategies do you recommend for organizations trying to embrace change and innovate while maintaining alignment with their core values? What is your next book? Norman Wolfe Norman Wolfe is the Founder and CEO of Quantum Leaders, Inc., a strategy execution consulting firm focused on transforming businesses to unlock the power of the human spirit. With over 30 years of experience, Norman is a pioneer in leadership and organizational performance, known for guiding companies through significant transitions to achieve extraordinary results. A former executive at Hewlett-Packard and board member of multiple organizations, Norman is also the author of The Living Organization, a groundbreaking book on creating high-performing companies. He is passionate about shifting business paradigms and helping leaders foster dynamic, living organizations. Excellent Executive Coaching Podcast If you have enjoyed this episode, subscribe to our podcast on iTunes. We would love for you to leave a review. The EEC podcasts are sponsored by MKB Excellent Executive Coaching, which helps you get from where you are to where you want to be with customized leadership and coaching development programs. MKB Excellent Executive Coaching offers leadership development programs to generate action, learning, and change that is aligned with your authentic self and values. Transform your dreams into reality and invest in yourself by scheduling a discovery session with Dr. Katrina Burrus, MCC, to reach your goals. Your host is Dr. Katrina Burrus, MCC, founder and general manager of Excellent Executive Coaching, a company that specializes in leadership development.

When the Metropolitan Community Church was founded in the late sixties, it was one of the first gay positive churches in America. When AIDS hit, it became a refuge for people who were sick and those who were mourning them.  In this episode, Anna talks to researcher Lynne Gerber, about finding boxes of cassettes under the church floor in an MCC church in San Francisco, and how those recordings of sermons and songs became a podcast about finding community and comfort during a crisis.  Lynne Gerber is the host of the 10-episode series When We All Get to Heaven. Death, Sex & Money is now produced by Slate! To support us and our colleagues, please sign up for our membership program, Slate Plus! Members get ad-free podcasts, bonus content on lots of Slate shows, and full access to all the articles on Slate.com. Sign up today at slate.com/dsmplus. And if you're new to the show, welcome. We're so glad you're here. Find us and follow us on Instagram and you can find Anna's newsletter at annasale.substack.com. Our new email address, where you can reach us with voice memos, pep talks, questions, critiques, is deathsexmoney@slate.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When the Metropolitan Community Church was founded in the late sixties, it was one of the first gay positive churches in America. When AIDS hit, it became a refuge for people who were sick and those who were mourning them.  In this episode, Anna talks to researcher Lynne Gerber, about finding boxes of cassettes under the church floor in an MCC church in San Francisco, and how those recordings of sermons and songs became a podcast about finding community and comfort during a crisis.  Lynne Gerber is the host of the 10-episode series When We All Get to Heaven. Death, Sex & Money is now produced by Slate! To support us and our colleagues, please sign up for our membership program, Slate Plus! Members get ad-free podcasts, bonus content on lots of Slate shows, and full access to all the articles on Slate.com. Sign up today at slate.com/dsmplus. And if you're new to the show, welcome. We're so glad you're here. Find us and follow us on Instagram and you can find Anna's newsletter at annasale.substack.com. Our new email address, where you can reach us with voice memos, pep talks, questions, critiques, is deathsexmoney@slate.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When the Metropolitan Community Church was founded in the late sixties, it was one of the first gay positive churches in America. When AIDS hit, it became a refuge for people who were sick and those who were mourning them.  In this episode, Anna talks to researcher Lynne Gerber, about finding boxes of cassettes under the church floor in an MCC church in San Francisco, and how those recordings of sermons and songs became a podcast about finding community and comfort during a crisis.  Lynne Gerber is the host of the 10-episode series When We All Get to Heaven. Death, Sex & Money is now produced by Slate! To support us and our colleagues, please sign up for our membership program, Slate Plus! Members get ad-free podcasts, bonus content on lots of Slate shows, and full access to all the articles on Slate.com. Sign up today at slate.com/dsmplus. And if you're new to the show, welcome. We're so glad you're here. Find us and follow us on Instagram and you can find Anna's newsletter at annasale.substack.com. Our new email address, where you can reach us with voice memos, pep talks, questions, critiques, is deathsexmoney@slate.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices