Origin Stories w JJK

Support Origin Stories by visiting StudioJJK.com/shop. And use code PODCAST to receive 10% off your order!Gene Luen Yang is a celebrated writer, artist, and educator whose works have left an indelible mark on the world of comics and literature. Renowned for his thought-provoking storytelling and insightful exploration of cultural, social, and identity themes, Yang has captivated audiences of all ages. Through his groundbreaking graphic novels, including "American Born Chinese," "Boxers & Saints," and his work on iconic characters like Superman and the Green Turtle, Yang intertwines the art of storytelling with powerful messages that resonate deeply with readers. As a MacArthur Fellowship recipient and National Ambassador for Young People's Literature, Yang's contributions extend beyond his compelling narratives, as he passionately advocates for diversity, representation, and the transformative potential of comics in education. His impact as a storyteller and advocate continues to inspire and shape the literary landscape, inviting readers into richly woven narratives that challenge perceptions and foster empathy.Gene Luen Yang is about to release his next graphic novel, Lunar New Year Love Story, a young adult romance. For this story, Yang Man teamed up with uber-talented and celebrated award-winning illustrator LeUyen Pham. An incredibly smart move because her artwork absolutely makes this book. It is gorgeous. You can support the show by checking out StudioJJK.com/shop, where you can purchase autographed books or commission artwork. You can also visit your local library and check out one of my books or a book by one of my guests!

Support Origin Stories by visiting StudioJJK.com/shop. And use code PODCAST to receive 10% off your order!Aaron Blabey is the best-selling author and illustrator behind massive hits like THE BAD GUYS, PIG THE PUG, and THELMA THE UNICORN. I was able to sit down with Aaron at Scholastic headquarters for the launch of his newest book—CAT ON THE RUN–which is the first in a trilogy. Get to know how Aaron went from childhood in rural Australia to where he is now!To support the show, please visit StudioJJK.com/shop. Thanks to our monthly supporters Susan Wagner Jarrett J. Krosoczka

I'm at a bit of an inflection point with this podcast. I was lucky enough to launch with a sponsor. I haven't been so fortunate to land with a sponsor for season 2, at least not one that I believe in, but just the same -- I am going forward because I love conducting these interviews -- and sharing them with you! If you would like to support this podcast, there are a few ways that would make a big difference! You could join me at patreon.com/studiojjk for info on exclusive live streams. Or you could purchase autographed books, original art, or even commision art, at Studiojjk.com/shop. Thank you so much!Amongst the literary luminaries I have been blessed to befriend in this writerly life is Eric Carle. It almost feels silly to deliver an introduction for him—is unique style and unmistakable illustrations have become a cornerstone of children's literature. Eric's most famous creation, "The Very Hungry Caterpillar," is a true masterpiece and a cherished book in countless homes and classrooms around the world.I had the opportunity to sit down with Eric in 2012 in the grand hall of The Eric Carle Museum of Picture Book Museum in Amherst, MA. I recently came across this interview on a backup drive and wanted to share it with you. We lost Eric in 2021, but his work and genius will forever be with us.Let's get to know Eric Carle's origin story! Thanks to our monthly supporters Jarrett J. Krosoczka

I miss my friend Tomie dePaola. In celebration of the US Postal Service issuing a Strega Nona stamp in his honor, I wanted to share this interview that I conducted with Tomie in the early 20-teens. Tomie's friendship is actually intertwined with the love story between me and Gina. When we started dating in 2006, she had her childhood copy of STREGA NONA with her in her Boston apartment. That book meant the world to her. About a month after dating Gina, I met Tomie at a conference. We were both out at the Society of Children's Book Writers and Illustrators annual out in Los Angeles. Tomie and I became fast friends, and I bought the big Art of Tomie book and had it signed to both Gina and me. That was a big step -- a hardcover book signed to the both of us? But by then, I knew. And when Gina saw that i had the book signed to the both of us, well...she knew I knew.Over the years, Gina and I cherished our time with Tomie. He even dedicated a Strega Nona book to us! And it was a Christmas book as well, a holiday that both Tomie and Gina went over the top for.I hope that you enjoy this trip down memory lane. How I wish I could see his sparkle once again, but man do I feel so lucky to have this recording featuring his infectious laugh.So on this special on-between episode of Origin Stories, let's get to know Tomie DePaloa's origin story!

Mike Curato made a name for himself with beautiful picture books like his Litle Elliot series—heartwarming stories with beautiful illustrations reminiscent of Chris van Allsburg.  In the fall of 2020, Mike published FLAMER, a semi-autobiographical tale about a mixed-race teen coming to terms with his sexuality while at scout camp. It is a raw, unflinching, and authentic look at a coming-of-age story. I was asked to blurb FLAMER, I wrote "This book will save lives." It is so important for our young people to see their stories reflected in literature. Amongst the mini accolades FLMAER received was a Lambda Literacy Award, whcih celebrates books from the LGBTQ+ community. I'm proud to bring you my pal Mike Curato's Origin Story!

I'm so excited to be bringing you Molly Knox Ostertag's Origin Story! Molly is so incredibly talented. She switches her creative time between graphic novels and animation. And it's fascinating to what overlaps and what is very different between those two mediums.Molly started her graphic novel career with THE WITCH BOY, and if you haven't read that book and the subsequent sequels, it's about this boy named Astrid. Astrid lives in this contemporary magical world in which boys do warlock stuff, and women do witch stuff. But Astrid knows he was meant to be a witch and he has witch powers, and I don't want to give away anything about the book. You have to read it for yourself! Also, Molly Osertag's other book, THE GIRL FROM THE SEA,  like THE WITCH BOY, is a  contemporary fantasy that centers queer characters who have magical powers. I first met her some years ago when her first book was debuting at Comic-Con and she's a delight and she's an incredible talent, and here she her Origin Story!

In today's episode, I talk to Jennifer Holm and Matthew Holm—siblings and co-creators of the bestselling, award-winning and trail-blazing Babymouse And Squish graphic novel series. I can't understate just how important their work is to the current-day landscape of graphic novels for young readers. Babymouse: Queen of the World was published in December of 2005—it was one of the very first kids' comics put out by one of the major trade publishers.Jenni, Matt, and I go way back, but I was so excited to learn more about their history. Let's get into Jenni and Matt's Origin Story!

On today's episode, we'll get to know graphic novelist Nate Powell! Nate is a highly-acclaimed writer/artist of critically acclaimed books such as Any Empire, Swallow Me Whole and Save It for Later: Promises, Parenthood, and the Urgency of Protest. Nate Powell is an Eisner Award-winning comics artist from Little Rock, Arkansas, who focuses on telling stories featuring young people facing difficult situations. In addition to Nate's multiple Eisners and countless literary awards—Nate took home the 2016 National Book Award for Young People's Literature, alongside his collaborators Representative John Lewis and Andrew Aydin, for March: Book Three.Let's learn all about Nate Powell's Origin Story!

In today's episode, I talk to Andrew Aydin about MARCH, his award-winning trilogy about the civil rights movement. Andrew was a policy advisor for Congressman John Lewis, with whom he co-authored these seminal graphic novels. Andrew tells us how he got interested in writing and comics and how he convinced Congressman John Lewis he should tell his story via the medium of comics. Andrew also shares some insights into the writing process and what it was like working with Congressman Lewis. Let's get to know Andrew Aydin's Origin Story!

In this episode, we are going to get to know how tom Angleberger became Tom Angleberger!Tom made a name for himself with the ORIGAMI YODA books, which were first published in 2010. While Tom has been actively creating his own characters, he's also been entrusted with books on Rocket and Groot and Geronimo Stilton. But in the Krosoczka house? He will forever be iconic for his Inspector Flytrap books. Like everything Tom does, those books are laugh-out-loud funny and pure fun. Like Tom himself. One of my most prized possessions in my studio? An Origami Lunch Lady made by Mr. Origami Yoda himself.

I cannot overstate the importance of Cece Bell's EL DEAFO. For both us, as a society, and for the prestige that it brought to graphic novels with the citation of that Newbery Honor, the first graphic novel to earn that shiny silver sticker! Get to know how Cece Bell came to be in her Origin Story!Jarrett: Hello everyone. My name is Jarrett Krosoczka and I wanna say hello to my friend, Cece Bell. Cece: Hi everybody. Hi Jarrett. It's so nice to see you. Jarrett: Oh, it's nice to see you. You're I miss you. I haven't seen you in so long. Even... Before the pandemic, we hadn't run into each other on book tour. Cece: It had been a long time, I guess we probably haven't seen each other for four years. Maybe. Jarrett: It might be. Yeah, it might be. I always see your silly and goofy posts on Instagram. So I really feel like we, we haven't missed a beat because I've been following along, you made a beautiful drawing for your mom on her birthday. Cece: Oh, yes. I did. Yeah. I, yeah, we, I've actually been off of Instagram for a little while because I was finding that it was too much of a pull away from, my productivity. So I'm allowed to look at it every Sunday. Jarrett: Ah! Cece: Nothing for the rest of the week. It's hard. Jarrett: I feel like if I did that, my thumb would always be like, ah, I need to look and scroll and see things. That is some amazing willpower, Cece Bell. So I, we know your story somewhat from your book, El Deafo, and as a person who's also written a graphic memoir, you decide like what you're gonna put on the page, what doesn't make it to the page.And I've said this to you a bunch, and you've heard this a million times, but El Deafo is... Such a powerful book and it's a pillar in graphic novel history because your book was the very first one ever to get a Newberry silver sticker like that really pushed the whole medium of graphic novels forward.And of course, when you sat down to make that book, that was nowhere near in your head. And we'll get to that. But before we do, I'm interested in how Cece Bell became Cece Bell, the graphic novelist, the cartoonist, the author. What are your earliest memories of drawing and making and reading comics tell us a little bit more about what your house was like growing up in regards to like the creative sources you consumed and created.Cece: Okay. Wow. Let's see. I think I always like drawing and mark making and that kind of thing. And let's see. I do remember when I got very sick in 1975 when I was about four and a half which is where the book El Deafo starts, that I did a lot of drawing there in the hospital. And my parents think that I drew probably 100 drawings of the same thing over and over again.It was just a little girl with a green face underneath the rainbow. Her body was shaped like a triangle and I just drew that repeatedly over and over. And that was probably an early experience of drawing being therapy in a way. But I always drew that was basically the only book that I would check out of my school library every Friday, the same Ed Emberly book; Make a World. And I really wasn't interested in reading that much. I could read, I didn't have trouble with it, but I just wasn't interested. I wanted to be making things. so Ed Emberly was a major part of my life.And gosh, my... My home life, I was really lucky. My father was a doctor and my mother was a nurse. And I wasn't limited financially, basically. And it was a very supportive household, but in the book, there's this feeling that that my parents are fairly normal people and my siblings are fairly normal people.And if I had focused on my family instead of on just the story of me coping with my deafness in school and at home it would've been much, much stranger. My family is bonkers weird and they are very funny. Oh, my goodness. They are just so weird. My mom is so weird. My dad is... We're just weird.And so I, I tamped that down a lot because... The focus wasn't on that. It was on deafness and feeling isolated. So anyway, but my family was, yeah, there was my mom. There was a picture of my mom. Nuts, very dramatic and funny. And I think I get a lot of my storytelling abilities from my mom's side of the family and word play and nicknames and all that stuff comes into play.And then my father's side is very really talented with hand skills. My grandmother was an amazing seamstress and my great grandmother was an amazing seamstress, but she was also a sign painter. I always found that really cool. A sign painter. Wow. I think that sort of some of the mix of who I was growing up and a huge focus on weird and probably Ed Eberly and the fact that my father got weekly issues of the New Yorker were major influences the New Yorker cover and then the New Yorker cartoon in the inside.That's a little bit of, a little bit of what was going on around me. Jarrett: Okay. So I want to meet these people who are more cuckoo bananas than Cece Bell, because you are so wonderfully and beautifully... Goofy and fun. And you might be the only person I know who consistently uses the hot dog emoji in text messages, so... Cece: That's the best one ever!Jarrett: I imagine that must have been, yeah, I guess that makes such sense. What - may I ask? What did your siblings grow up to do? Cece: My siblings they struggled more than I did in terms of - this is gonna sound strange, but in a lot of ways, my hearing loss ended up being a real gift and the main way that it did that is I ended up getting attention from our parents.That... More attention from our parents than my older siblings did, which was extremely unfair, but that's just how it happened, how it played out. And so they really struggled. They struggled with that lack of attention and just, they are my sister is five years older and my brother is seven years older and they're growing up was very different from mine, even that slight not generational, but time period was different.And so they, they are probably the funniest, most creative people that I know, but neither one of them has found that lifelong dream career, which is something I struggle with them. That sense of guilt, even though what happened, wasn't my fault. I'm deeply aware of how much it changed things for them.And it's a, it's an interesting thing, but they are so funny. If you think I'm funny, spend time with them and you'll just think that I'm as dull as a brick because those two and when we all three get together, it is just, it's pretty magical. And I'm so grateful that we get along and that we're as close as we are.They're terrific siblings. Yeah. Jarrett: Wow. What that is a, what a beautiful testament of your love for them. And their love for you comes across so clearly in the book, in regards to you, the baby of the family and they're concerned for your health that's, and I connect to that as well, because I too was, the baby of the family, and there was a lot of trauma going on.And with that, I got a lot of attention. And I loved drawing as a form of escape. And I'm so touched to hear that your time in the hospital was spent drawing because that is a testament to the power of creating in the arts to get you through some hard times. Did you ever have an epiphany along the lines where you realized this thing could be a career for you?Like this drawing thing? Cece: That took a while. I was in school, in high school and the first part of college I was really super academic. And some of that was pressure from my own self, but also pressure from my dad. I think my dad wanted me to be a doctor like him, and I've have found that's a theme among a lot of cartoonists and illustrators that there was this parent who pushed, but pushed them to be something that they didn't want to be.And that child like me in my case I think [inaudible] has a similar thing. And the name is leaving me... American born Chinese? Jarrett: Oh, Jean Yang.Cece: Helped me. Yeah. Yeah. Just that, that pressure. And There was that, but in school I was really academic trying to fulfill this thing for myself and for my father and overcompensating for the deafness.I didn't want people to think of me as "that deaf kid". I wanted them to think of me, " that smart kid". And so I worked really hard and I never considered art as a career because it didn't seem like it was even doable. It wasn't doable. So when I got to college, I was an English major and I hated it.I hated it. I don't know what I was doing. Having to write papers and read books and but while I was in college, I met Tom Angelberger, who ended up becoming my husband and he was an art major and I did take some art classes. There he is! There he is. He's so smart. And we started hanging out and I think he recognized that I was pretty good at it.And I think he also recognized that I was unhappy as an English major. And so it was Tom who encouraged me to switch majors and just go for it. And I did, and suddenly I was happy and it was the best move I ever made, but it took a while longer to figure out what I was going to do with it. Jarrett: Wow. You know... I obviously I know that you and Tom really support one, one another artistically, but I didn't realize he was really such an integral part of your origin story of you becoming the Cece Bell that we all know, that we know is the name on the spine of the book, the name on the front cover with all of those shiny stickers. And, yeah. And so you were college sweethearts, and then you both got catapulted out into the real world. And so what happened from there? Did you graduate with an English degree?Cece: We, no, no. I got out of that as quick as I could. I keep saying I don't like reading and I do, but the book has to get me.Or it has to interest me from chapter one. And if it doesn't, I throw it out. So there were a lot of books that didn't interest me in chapter one in the English department, but I was out of there, but no, we I ended up getting a degree in fine arts and Tom did two, and we went to the college of William and Mary, which is in Williamsburg, Virginia, and which isn't really known for art. It's known for like business and physics and science. But we finished school and then we took a trip around the country together in an old Volkswagen van. And then we decided, because we survived that we could get married and survived that too. So we got married and I decided to go to graduate school at in Ohio. And so we got married right before that. And so at this point we were just 22. We were super, super young. And I decided I needed to, I wanted to become an illustrator. That I wouldn't have fit in with the whole fine arts crowd. I had this vision that I would have to go to New York city and drink champagne and talk about art and that just founded atrocious.So I thought; "Illustration!" And so I decided to go to a graduate degree in design and illustration, and Tom went with me and basically... He worked in a factory and juggled on the weekend, and that... And he paid for all of the time I was in graduate school. And then and then I finished and then we moved back to Virginia.He learned a lot from what I was learning. So it was neat. I would share my projects with him and talk about everything with him. And I think he picked it up through osmosis, but he actually, his path was really different. He was working in a factory, but then eventually ended up becoming a newspaper reporter, both in Ohio and then back in Virginia.And he was really good at it. And I think that's how he became a writer, was through newspaper writing. And his first book, which was about a group of kids exploring the local sewage department. That was based on a story that he wrote for the newspaper. Anyway he's a huge - Tom Angelberger is probably the reason I'm talking to you right now is because he put me through school.He was the one that, I think he understood me before. I understood me in a lot of ways. Jarrett: Wow. Wow. Wow. I, that's beautiful. I feel like that story you just told us could be... Like a limited series on a streaming service. That is just such a beautiful, that could be a romantic comedy or something, Cece, that's amazing. Wow. So you landed back in Virginia, you got hitched you got hitched and smart to travel across country together to see if you could survive that your relationship could survive that before marriage that's smart. That should be a requirement. So why, so he was writing for the newspaper.And were you like what were you hoping to do with your illustrations? Did you have books for kids in mind? Did you like what were you thinking? Cece: Gosh, when we moved back to Virginia, I was, we were both 25 and we moved back mostly because Tom was homesick for the mountains. I would've stayed in Ohio.And I actually applied for a job at American Greeting, which was, or I think it's still in Cleveland and did not get that job. What were they thinking? But I didn't get hired by American Greeting. And I was bummed cuz it was in a, that the office space was just beautiful and the employees would get these like every other year sabbaticals and it was beautiful.So I was pretty sad, but Tom wanted to go back to Virginia and I did. And so we did, and when we first came back Tom had trouble finding a newspaper job, but I got a job as an illustrator and designer for a small company. That made exotic pet supplies.So for three years I was making packaging and writing copy and doing all this stuff for this little company in Virginia. And the work was really great because it forced me to learn how to use Photoshop. And at the time it was called Freehand, like illustrator. You may remember Freehand.Jarrett: Yeah.Cece: And it forced me to learn to use the computer. I, my time in graduate school, the computer stuff was just starting. It was more, we were using a Xerox machine and cutting and pasting and using all that old, Ruby list kind of stuff. So the computer was still really new. So that job was good because it forced me to learn those things.But I was working for the devil. Satan himself was my boss and I had to get outta there. And so I don't know if you've ever seen this show, The Prisoner, the it's that British show and the beginning, the introduction has the prisoner is an FBI - not FBI, Secret Service agent. And he he quits his job and he like throws his keys down and storms out.I had visions that, that, that was how I was going to quit. But instead I got up like at 5:30 in the morning and I wrote a note and I put it in an envelope with the key. And I crept into my boss's office and put the envelope on his desk and it basically said I quit and don't contact me ever. And then I snuck out and I was at no two weeks notice.Ugh, I was pretty shabby, but I was so glad to get out in there. And then from that, I started freelancing at this crazy local paper... Paper product place that licensed stuff. Like I got to make folders that featured N-Sync and the, whatever those boys are called, those boy bands. Yes, I Want it That Way.And I got to make all these school supplies for N-Sync and with the Crayola stuff on there, and it was this crazy hodgepodge. It was the best job. And so when I was doing that, it freed me up to start thinking about kids books and my graduate thesis had been this wackadoodle children's book that will never is the light of day, but the illustrations are great.And the story's not so good, but I thought the illustrations were great, but anyway So then I started to think; "Maybe I can do this." And I finally had an idea that I felt like it was good enough to pursue, and I pursued it and I made this really polished dummy that I could that I could send out.And at the time Candlewick Press was accepting ,accepting work without an agent, unsolicited stuff. So I sent it to Candlewick and like three months later there was a message on the answering machine. Which of course I didn't understand because I don't understand that. I don't understand answering machine messages, but Tom was there once again, Tom did a rescue and he is; "Oh my gosh, it's Candlewick Press!".And So I didn't, I, that was it. That was my end. And the rest is history . Jarrett: And what book was that? Cece: That book was "Sock Monkey goes to Hollywood."Jarrett: Oh, yes. I remember the Sock Monkey books and, wow. That's right. Wow. So what and what year was that? Cece: Oh, my gosh, that came out.Oh yeah. So the, that was the year 2000 was when I got the message from Candlewick, but it didn't come out until 2003 because I didn't have an agent. And I had to get a lawyer to help me read the contract as those contracts are... It wasn't until later that I got an agent, and God bless agents because I never wanna read another contract ever again. But it just took a long time because it was my first and I didn't have representation at the time. So that came out in 2003. Jarrett: Yeah. Cece: Yeah. Jarrett: Yeah. And because now I'm connecting all of the dots, because then... It was maybe a few years after that is when I first met you and Tom at, we were in a gallery show together and I had just thought; "That's the famous Cece Bell, she's been around. "These books have been out for years now. And I don't know if I'm allowed to talk to the famous Cece Bell who makes the Sock Monkey books." And there, you were just getting started. Cece: Yeah. Oh, I really was just getting started and I wasn't famous at all. I remember Ashley Bryan was there and Grace Lynn was there.Jarrett: Yeah. Cece: And at the time I was a huge Grace Lynn fan, still am, but I think, I still think of her as this icon. She already felt iconic that all the way back then. And I was so in awe of her and that sensation that I had, then it's still there. Anytime I see her, I just turn a jelly like; "Oh, it's Grace Lynn! Baah!"And so she was there and I remember the book that you were talking about was the the animal punk rock band. Jarrett: Yeah. Cece: Book. Yeah. Jarrett: Yeah. Punk Farm! Cece: And you already had the JJK thing going on. You were like Mr. PR and... Jarrett: No, but I was only a few years in then too, that my first book was 2001 and Punk Farm was 2005, I think.Cece: Punk Farm.Jarrett: Still trying to get my stuff out there, and learning how to be on stage. Cause I used to have incredible stage fright. I hated performing. I hated going on stage. And then that became part of the job that I have. So I'm curious and because I know for me, I had been working on Lunch Lady that whole time.But the world wasn't quite ready for kids graphic novel. So you're plugging away on these picture books. How does El Deafo thread into that? I'm assuming that was something that was knocking around your head for, so for some years, right? Cece: It, in fact it was not knocking around my head at all.And honestly I was purposefully not writing about my experience on purpose and it's much like how I was in school. I don't want anybody to know this thing about me. And I want everybody to think I'm smart. And I had the same feeling about my picture books and early reader books. I just wasn't ready to talk about it in any way, not just in books, but in any and every way.There was an event that happened in which I had this really difficult interaction with a grocery store cashier. And she made me feel like the lowest person on earth. And it was all because I couldn't understand her. And I was so upset by that interaction and the person I was most upset at with myself, because at no point during that interaction, did I ever say; "I'm deaf!" Or; "I have trouble hearing." Or; "Could you please repeat that?"Because I had so much trouble saying those things. I still had not come to grips with a lot of it. And at that point I was 40 years old. 40! And I was so mad... At everything. And I was mad at hearing people for not understanding and just frustrated and mad at me. And so I started a website and the website was called, eldeafo.com.And El Deafo really was the nickname that I called myself, as a kid, but only to myself, nobody else knew about it. And I just started writing about it. And my post were more about more directed at hearing people like; "This is what you should do if you're talking to a lip reader." That kind of thing.But then I wrote a little, my, my origin story. I wrote that up and a friend of mine who was a wonderful writer named Madeline Rosenberg. She was reading it and she said; "Oh my goodness, you have got to turn this into something. Please turn this into something, please turn it into a graphic novel." And so we have Madeline Rosenberg to thank for this.And so it was her encouragement and I had just read Raina Telgemeier's Smile, and that thing's a masterpiece. And I could see, I could tell that Raina's methods would really work for a story like this. And I was really excited about it because from the word go, I knew that they were gonna be rabbits.And I knew that the speech bubbles were going to be... The most important part of telling the story of my experience with deafness. So that's how that all came to me. And I was ready. I was ready. I felt like this book is going to be my calling card. This book is going to tell the world for me that I'm deaf.And then sure enough, after the book came out, I was finally able to talk about it. It was like, it worked. Yay. Jarrett: Yeah. Cece: And it was such relief. Jarrett: And I, and again, I could understand that journey. So earlier when I was talking about I, I was making Lunch Lady I probably should have compared it more to Hey Kiddo in that for me too.When I was first getting published and news reporters would wanna ask, they ask; "Why were you being raised by your grandparents?"" And I thought, I don't want that to be, I don't wanna be labeled as the child of an addict. I wanna be the Jarrett, who's making the books and I wanna be the Punk Farm guy or the Lunch Lady guy.And, but then there's this thing that you've lived and you're processing it and it's trauma and you're an adult, but you're still dealing with it. And then suddenly this thing that you've wanted to put inside a box your whole life, you're gonna put in a graphic memoir, like a hundreds of pages for everyone to see what was the creative process like for you?And I love that you made them rabbits. That's it's so perfect cuz of the ears, but also because you're Cece Bell, it's just so silly. Like they could have been talking hot dogs and it's still would've worked, but could you tell us a little bit about... The creative process and how that intersected with the emotional journey you had.Cece: Wow. I was, when I decided to commit to it, I was really excited about it. And I think because I didn't have any experience with graphic novels. I knew that I had to do a little bit of studying up and probably like a lot of folks who were in this business. I started with Scott McCloud's Understanding Comics, which is, probably the most important book about comics I've ever seen.And I read it three times. I was just amazed by the whole thing. I read it three times. Once I, after the third time I thought to myself, I'm ready. I'm ready to go. And the process was just, I basically did a a notebook dump. I just wrote down everything I could remember, but I limited myself to the moment that I lost my hearing to fifth grade, and I just wrote all my memories down all my experiences and then tightened that up into an outline.And it was the outline and a a chapter. I drew out a chapter and that's what I sent to Susan Van Metre at Abrams Books. She was at Abrams at the time and she was Tom's editor for the Origami Yoda series. And I was really impressed with her. I had met her a couple of times and something told me she was the right person for it.That's what I sent to her, but the process was just a lot of back and forth between doing just these little sketches for each page kind of blocking out what's supposed to happen and then writing out what people are supposed to say, and then just mushing it together. And the process felt very organic compared to picture books, the picture books, I always feel like you've gotta get the text absolutely perfect. And there was a lot less of that for me, with the graphic novel, it was so much looser and more fun, I think. And that's all I can, that's all I can say. It was just, it was a really good experience. Jarrett: That's and that, that book is such a gift. I still have. The advanced reader's copy that they handed out to promote the book.I'll never, that's maybe in 50 years, I'll sell it on eBay to get me through . But I think it's only with the medium of comics, like a prose novel would not have worked to tell this story as effectively, because with your visuals, you are able to play with the word balloons and the size of the text to really help me and hearing people understand your journey and, and that obviously that's a help to us with hearing, but for, the whole generation of kids who are growing up with hearing loss and who are deaf.Have you - that - I can't even imagine what this book has meant to them. And I'm assuming you hear from readers with hearing loss and deafness could you share a few stories like that must get emotionally overwhelming at times? Cece: Sure. There have been, the response was just so positive.The kids that I've heard from who have had experiences like mine, they just get so excited to see their story and to see something that's familiar to them. It's not exactly their story maybe, but they get it. And they're really happy to have something to show their families and their friends. "This is what it's like!"And... Also just a lot of kids have had the experience of hearing their teacher in the bathroom. And it's great to have that validated. "Yeah. I've been there too. Yay." That's probably, everybody's favorite part in the book. That's my favorite part in the book. That was the chapter that I submitted to Susan that yeah. Hearing teacher. Jarrett: That's perfect. Cece: Yeah. So the kids have been great. And, but somehow the more affecting stories for me were the adults who had grown up in a very similar way that I had with the same equipment, even the phonic ear and the microphone and many of them said; "This is the first time I have ever seen anything remotely, like my story in a book."And I ended up making friends with a lot of adults with hearing loss, which wasn't something I had a lot of, I'm very much in the hearing world because my family is all hearing. And I think for so long, I thought of myself as a hearing person. I am, I'm a hearing person when I stick my hearing aids in and I'm a deaf person when they're out, but I'm both of those things all the time I'm in between all the time.And so it was just really cool to get this new group of people who completely understood and just... Those are the ones that get me. But then in terms of the kids, probably my favorite story ever was a little girl who was struggling with having to get hearing aids. And she was very afraid of it all.And so she found my book and read it, and that helped her be less afraid. And she was at the audiologist office. And at that point she was very comfortable and okay with everything she was going through. But there was a little boy at the office who was crying and she happened to have her copy of El Deafo and she gave him her copy. Ugh. And that was just that really got me so...Jarrett: Wow!Cece: It was just neat. It's neat that it's being used in a helpful way. And I never thought that I would ever create a book that would help people, my other books that are just silly and funny and goofy. Sometimes I feel guilty for those books. I'm like; "Sure, maybe they help kids read, but what good are they doing?" So it's really nice to have this one book that I know helps people, Jarrett: Yeah. Yeah. And, that's something that I struggled to... Especially when we're seeing every awful, horrific headline in the news. And there have been times where I've worried; "But what does this silly story matter?"But they do, those silly stories do matter. I under- I understand that inner struggle because you have made something that connects with readers on this whole other level. So I'm curious, I'd like to know a little bit more about this Apple TV+ limited series of El Deafo. It, my kids requested to watch it because they had read the book and what you did with the visuals in El Deafo, the book to help hearing people understand your deaf experience.The sound scape in the TV show helped me understand on a, on an entirely different level. And it, I had to say Cece, it felt like a animated special we've had for decades. It felt like a Charles Schulz, Peanuts, Charlie Brown, Snoopy, special. Like it was that level of just beauty and taking the time to tell the story.How did that come about? Cece: Wow Jarrett. You just said the magic words to me. That was what I wanted. I wanted that peanut feel that Christmas special Peanuts feel. Where it's not exactly perfect, but the imperfections or what make it interesting, there's something really unusual about that Charlie Brown, Christmas special that on paper, it shouldn't work at all. It's a mess. Even some of the story doesn't make sense and yet you stick it all together and yay. It works. But so thank you for that. That means a lot. So that television show came about a he's my friend now, but back then, he wasn't my friend.He was somebody. Greatly admired and still admired, Will McRob who is one of the co-creators of one of my favorite TV shows of all time, the Adventures of Pete and Pete, which was on Nickelodeon in the 90s, he, out of the blue sent me an email and said; "I like your book. Let's turn it into a show!"And so that was how it got started, but it took him a long time to convince me because I felt like the book was I don't know, to me, at least it felt sacred and I didn't wanna mess that up. And I knew that there were a lot of fans of the book who also felt that love for it. And I didn't wanna mess that up, but I started to think, there's not many, if any characters on TV who are like me in that we are deaf people who have chosen or because of our circumstances, we have gotten through life with hearing aids, not without, but with, and you don't see very much of that on TV and in a movie. And in fact, when there are deaf characters in movies, at least, like back in the 70s and 80s, when we grew up not only was the deaf character made fun of, but the equipment was too, the actual hearing aid was somehow part of the... Was being made fun of, and, hearing aids are not perfect and they're greatly flawed little things, but they've really helped me and the phonic ear from the book I'm in... Once again, I would not be here talking to you without that piece of equipment. I don't think maybe I would've, but I don't think so, but anyway I just started to think, this kind of needs to be this could be really good for deaf kids and hearing kids to have a show like this. So that's how it came about.And I signed on once I I was very demanding. I had to put on those big girl pants and be like; "Ra ra ra!" Which is not my usual way. But anyway I said it can't be just a series that, goes on a, goes off on its own. It needs to be based on the book. And I want it to look like the book and it can't be 3D animation.I was like; "Absolutely no 3D, has to be 2D." And my other thing was; "We have to mess with the audio. The audio has to reflect the book in some way." So those were some of my demands. Also the main character had to be played by someone, a kid who also has hearing loss, but is using adaptive equipment to help her.And in that case, we got a lovely young lady, Lexi Finigan who uses cochlear implants a little bit different from what I do. But she was just fantastic. So I was very demanding. Jarrett: I I'm so glad that you were because, so often these animated adaptations of work the author of the underlying material is the last person they wanna work with. And I think that the work suffers from that cuz so it really, you went in there with, a limited amount of things that would really like you're quote-unquote "demands". And I, and I get it cuz you have to be assertive in these situations. To say; "Here's what's really important to me." And understanding like a book is a book and a and a TV show is a TV show. Like you're telling story with anything that's animated or film. You're telling stories with visuals and sounds, and time, which is different than a book. And you all just hit it right out of the park.I, when it comes to the Emmys, I hope you win all of the awards for this piece. It's an instant classic. It's just so perfect. And you narrat I could, I didn't know that. So I put it on and I, and my wife, Gina was in the other room she came and went; "Is that Cece? Cece's voice is coming from the TV?"Cece: Yeah, that was pretty neat. At first the director who is. From Lighthouse Studios in Ireland, a woman named Gilly Fogg, who was absolutely terrific, when she first heard that I wanted to narrate it. Oh, not that I wanted to narrate it, but just the idea of a narrator. She said; "Oh no, we don't want that. That's, no thank you." But Will, and I, when we were writing the script together, we realized that if we were going to mess with the audio, that it was going to be confusing and that we needed there to be a voice ex- kind of just explaining, giving kids a few clues that no, your TV isn't broken because the narrator's voice would come on and it would be clear.And and like I think every now and then the narrator says something like, everything was quiet and I think the audience needs that. Otherwise they're gonna be, hitting their TV. "What's wrong?" She did not like that idea. The director said; "No, no narrator." And so Will said; "What if Cece narrates it?"And then she just lit up and she said; "Aha, yes, that's what we need to do." Because it did need to be my voice. You've probably heard people talking about the deaf accent, where there are certain sounds that I don't hear very well. And so my voice is a little different and that was important.People need to hear what that voice sounds like, which is why one of the reasons why we cast a deaf actress, because we need to have that specific sound. And I used to be very ashamed of that deaf accent, but not anymore. I don't really, that's just how I talk. So that is how that came to be, but I had to take acting classes, Jarrett, I am now... That's the end. And the woman - I know I am acting.And she was fantastic. I think I had about three or four sessions with her and it was almost more like therapy. I don't know she was magical and she's a lovely woman. And just, it actually really helped just, it was more about "here's how to take direction and then use that direction and go with it."And this all happened during COVID. And so I recorded all of my lines in my bedroom. They sent me all this equipment and Tom and I set it up and I was pretty much in my closet. And that it was pretty neat. It was pretty neat getting to do the whole thing from home. Jarrett: You, but, okay. But you do deserve the limo.That's gonna bring you to the studio. So I hope that we get something more so that you can have a personal assistant that you throw your phone to, and if you don't like the food, they prepared, you just throw it against the wall in a fit of rage. I guess you could do that for Tom.I guess you could like Tom, could, he would do that for you. If that's gonna make you happy, like he would totally be game for that Cece: It was frustrating that I didn't get to have some of the experiences, like I was supposed to be able to go to Ireland and hang out with the animation studio for a couple weeks.Wow. So that got canned. And I was supposed to go out to LA to to work with the audio team. That didn't work. But the funny thing is that because we had all of our meetings on zoom, it was actually better because when I'm in a meeting, oh, like around a table in real life, I miss probably 70 or 80% of what's being said, because I lose the thread.If that makes sense. I can't, I can only do, one or two people. And then I'm lost because of their lip reading. But with everybody's face right in front of me, everybody's facing me, look at me, , they're all facing me. That makes me sound like they're looking at me, we have to look at our computers, right?You have to look at our computers when we do them. And so I didn't miss anything. And... That gave me a lot more confidence to help run the show. Oh yeah. So it was actually a benefit in a weird way that we were all stuck at home Jarrett: A as well. You should run the show Cece, wow. That all of your hard work as a team made for a beautiful animated program, and there's, as I said, it so reminded me of the Charlie Brown specials, cause it also took its time. There was moments of silence. There, there were moments where it wasn't just a lot of fast cuts and my five year old son who... Has a very short tension span. Loves video games. Like it, it actually was very calming to him. We'd watch it at the end of the day, as a treat, as a family watch and he would ask for Cece, he wouldn't call it El Deafo, he'd say, could we watch Cece?And so they all connected with you on this whole other level. So we're gonna wrap things up in a bit be before we do in the chat. So what I'll give you one audience question, cuz I don't wanna keep you too much longer. What are you working on Cece? Is there anything you can tell us about? What do we have to look forward to? Cece: Oh so I am working on of all things, an alphabet book. That's crazy, but so I love music and that's something that a lot of hearing folks are surprised by that.Deaf people can love music and my hearing aids are pretty good. And I grew up with my older siblings bringing in all this great music usually from thrift stores. And we had this fantastic turntable, that we used at home. That is mine now. Thank goodness. Great speakers. And so I really love music and I especially love the visuals that went with the music, the album covers.So this is an alphabet book of fake album covers that are animals playing different genres. And and all I'm making memorabilia and writing songs and smushing it all together in this book. So part of it is hopefully it'll be fun, but it's a very personal project because as I've gotten older, I am losing more hearing.And now it's a genetic hearing loss because my father and his grandfather and father, on down the line, they all had pretty significant hearing loss. So I'm starting to lose. My ability to appreciate music, which sucks in a big way. So this is my my outpouring of love visually for music.And it's been so much fun. I'm doing all the hand lettering. I'm doing weird paintings and it's been a lot of fun so far, but a lot of work because it's so personal, I'm taking my time with it. And my editor is Susan Van Metre, the same one who is working, who worked on El Deafo with me.And I just got an extension, Jarrett. Yay! The best thing ever to happen is when you tell your editor, "I need more time" and they give it to you. So that's what I'm...Jarrett: Awesome. Cece: Very personal and I just wanted to do something that didn't have so much of a story, just fun. And there's thought of a story that the story of my own personal relationship with music, but but that's what I've been working on.Jarrett: Oh we will be patient Cece Bell! It has been very challenging, challenging times and concepts lately, cuz of the pandemic deadlines have seemed like wonderful suggestions. I know my editors won't want to hear that, but it's been, to get that art out of you also need to be in a pretty decent enough Headspace.So I'm glad to know that. Yes, you're getting more time and we are gonna get more Cece Bell and the world and we're also, we're lucky to have you in this world. We're lucky that you make art. We're lucky that Tom Angelberger supported you and took you off that track and put you on a different track that you wanted to be on.And what a beautiful thing to have anyone in this world who would love you so much to show you your true self and what an amazing story from the exotic pet packaging to N-Sync. I did not think I would be able to run a thread between Cece Bell and N-Sync in this interview, but wow. Wow.That's very cool. I will think of you whenever I see an N-Sync lunch box at a thrift store or something like that. . Cece: Oh, please. Yeah. If you ever find school supplies like a notebook and folders, I should have sent you pictures. They're they're just I know everything about Justin Timberlake.Let me tell you, I know everything about, the way he looked and his signature, we got to use all this stuff that they sent us. It was great. Jarrett: Ah I'm gonna make...Cece: I would say a lot of the same things about you. Your work has been so important and inspiring and funny and and your support of other authors and illustrators is amazing. I think I'm a little bit more self-centered honestly, you're just like "everybody else is fantastic!" And I really appreciate that. You're really good about doing that. So thank you.Jarrett: I appreciate that your kind words, but in a way, what we all do is self-centered because we're scratching that creative itch we've always had.And, we're lucky enough that we love to make books and we didn't forget who we were as kids and kids find those really funny or entertaining, or they get to see themselves reflected in that true life experience. I...Cece: Yes.Jarrett: ... Cannot pass up a chance to make a really bad pun in this moment.Cece, I'm gonna sign off by saying... Bye bye bye. It was so bad, right? That was so stupid. That was such a bad joke. Ain't no bad joke. Ain't no lie. I say it. It might sound crazy, but it ain't no lie. Cece I appreciate you. And thanks for taking the time to chat with us today. Cece: Absolutely. Thank you, Jarrett.

Nilah Magruder is an absolute joy and an uber-talented author and artist. She was the first Black woman to write for Marvel, illustrated all of the Heroes of Olympus covers for Rick Riordan's books, and worked extensively in animation. Not to mention the books that she is the sole creator of, which have proven to be legendary in my home.Jarrett: Nilah Magruder. How are you? [00:00:03] Nilah: I'm doing pretty good. How are you? [00:00:06] Jarrett: Hangin', it in there Nilah, you will forever and ever be iconic in my home because your picture book, "How to Find a Fox" has been read so many times. So many times. In our home that it is held together by like scotch tape and like bubble gum.[00:00:29] Our son, we must have read that so many times. [00:00:32] Nilah: Oh my God.[00:00:32] Jarrett: Huge home run pal and I remember we met at Comics Crossroads in Ohio and we were tabling next to each other and, like we just were chatting the whole day and I'm always looking for something to bring home to the kids to make up for being gone.[00:00:45] And wow that book, man, I'm telling you like, iconic like that, that we will read that. I will read that to my grandkids, my wife and I will be reading that to our grandkids someday. So thank you for stop and a chat with us. But of course I what the show is all about of [00:01:01] course is about getting to know how creative people in comics got to be doing what they're doing.[00:01:09] And so I like to start at the very beginning cuz I, I love the idea and I also love the idea of imagine. A young author, an artist and getting to, to hear those stories directly from some of your favorite creators. My first question for you and it might really be the only question I ask and then we're gonna get into a conversation, but what was life like for you as a kid?[00:01:29] What was your home like? What was your family set up? What kind of art and stories were you consuming? What sort of laid the groundwork to create Nilah Magruder? [00:01:39] Nilah: My home life as a child, I grew up in a house in the woods in a small community back in a time where it was largely forest and largely rural.[00:01:53] And I think that had a lasting impact on how. I think visually in how I view story, the sort of stories that I'm interested in. A lot of the things I was interested at interested in as a kid were very pastoral and natural. I loved anything featuring animals and, honestly, I was isolated for a lot of my childhood.[00:02:20] This is something that you and I have in common. I had an alcoholic parent and as a kid, I didn't like to bring friends home because then they would see my dad and, whatever state that my dad was in, it was really unpredictable. I never quite knew what I was bringing friends into. So I didn't, bring friends here very much.[00:02:44] And I didn't go to friends' houses very much. And so a lot of my time was spent at home, but we were surrounded by this woodland, all of these trees and animals and so much nature. And that's really where I spent my time as a kid. Now, what I was interested in, like what I was ingesting, we had a small video rental store in the community, and this was long before Netflix.[00:03:18] This was even before Blockbuster. We didn't have a Blockbuster within driving distance. I'm not even sure if Blockbuster existed back then. And so we had this local mom and pop rental store and they would bring in videos from all over the world. A lot of imported... movies and television series.[00:03:43] And as a kid, I was interested in anything animated. If it was a cartoon, if it was drawn, I was there. And so like any cartoon that they had, I'd be like, mom, can we get this please? And I remember once I showed her one video that I hadn't watched yet, and I was like, mom, can we get this? And she looked at it, she looked at the cover and was like, no.[00:04:05] And she put it back and we never spoke of it again. and years later, like I was an adult on the internet and I saw this title called when the wind blows and I was like, oh, that's familiar. And I looked at the summary. I looked at the art from the movie and I was like, oh my God, that's it. That's that one movie that my mom wouldn't let me watch.[00:04:27] And so when the wind blows is a British animated film about nuclear fallout, And it's about it's about this couple. I think it's like a rural couple and there's this big catastrophe in England. And the government sends pamphlets out to everyone and is every, they're just like, don't panic everyone. It's fine.[00:04:54] Just stay at home. And so basically this couple they're older, they're very trusting. They're like the government knows what's best. So we'll just stay home. And eventually radiation reach reaches them and they get sick and die. [00:05:11] So... [00:05:11] Jarrett: what a prude! What a prude! What a...[00:05:14] Nilah: I know wouldn't let me. And then another time she was also a teacher and one day she brought home the animated Animal Farm.[00:05:22] Jarrett: Wow. Yeah.[00:05:23] Nilah: And, my thing is animals, of course. And she looks at me and she's do not watch this. And then she leaves it out. [00:05:32] Jarrett: Oh... [00:05:33] Nilah: And so one day when she wasn't there, I popped it in the VCR and watched it. And I think I was like nine or 10 at the time. And I loved it. So all that to say when I was a kid, I would just watch anything.[00:05:49] And so I was, and we had this rental store that would bring over anything. And so I was getting to watch animated movies from Japan and England and Russia and Canada, like Canada had a really great experimental animation program that was supported by the government. [00:06:07] Jarrett: Yeah.[00:06:07] Nilah: And so they were producing just like wild animated shorts and half the time, I didn't understand what I was watching, but because it was moving pictures, moving drawings, I was fascinated.[00:06:21] And a lot of the stuff that I look back on that I loved as a small child, it's very experimental and dark. And then I lived in this woodland that was also creepy, a lot of animals lived here and also a lot of people in the community were like fascinated cuz our home was situated secluded.[00:06:45] And so people would come drive through late at night just to, see the house or they'd, walk through, like it was a public park here. [00:06:55] Jarrett: Oh. [00:06:55] Nilah: So I had this experience as a child of just like constantly our space just constantly being invaded by strangers. And it was like scary, you're in bed at night....[00:07:11] And headlights reflected on your wall. Yeah. And you're a little kid and you're just like, oh my gosh. [00:07:19] Jarrett: Yeah. [00:07:19] Nilah: I have this, like I have this just this little, knot from my childhood, that's very, just creepy and wild and mysterious. And then I write children's books. [00:07:34] Jarrett: Yeah. It's not easy to be a creative kid who then you when you have worries, because then your creativity, which I've only realized now as an adult, like your imagination really creates scenarios in your head.[00:07:50] Nilah: Yeah![00:07:50] Jarrett: And I wanna point out to the listeners that it's remarkable. That you had access to VHS tapes of cartoons from other countries in that time period. Sometimes when I'm book touring and I talk to readers and they said; "did you love anime when you were a teenager?" And I didn't really have access to it.[00:08:10] I grew up in a suburban, urban area and my rental shop, which was another mom and pop rental shop. They didn't have that creative, curated collection. So how remarkable that, whoever it was that was down the street from you who had this, you know, who had an appetite for this flavor of creative cartoons, because otherwise you would've just been seeing like just Disney and nothing else.[00:08:35] That's, this kinda was the only game in town back then. [00:08:38] Nilah: Yeah. [00:08:39] Yeah. It is like looking back on it. I think that too, it's very odd. [00:08:44] Jarrett: Yeah. [00:08:45] Nilah: Like, how we had so many dubs at the time, but also that this little, this little spot in rural, Maryland was getting all of these videos and yeah, it was pretty, and this was before cable too.[00:09:01] Like we didn't have cable at the time, a lot of my access to animation was through this little rental shop. [00:09:11] Jarrett: Wow. Wow. And so did you love to draw before or after? Can you, or was it simultaneous love of animation and drawing for you? [00:09:21] Nilah: I think the animation came before and I always tell people that I was.[00:09:27] Bad at art at that age. And I'm talking about when I was in kindergarten, so five or six , who's good at art at that age? But it was this I was really bad at coloring in the lines. [00:09:39] Jarrett: Oh, that showed, that did show - sorry to cut you off - but all that did was show promise.[00:09:44] Nilah: Yeah.[00:09:45] Jarrett: All that did was show promise in your work. So it sounds like you had someone somewhere to say, no, you're supposed to color in the lines. And then you're like, oh, what?[00:09:53] Nilah: It was my peers, I remember sitting at a table in kindergarten and I'm coloring. And one of the little girls next to me was like, "Nilah, do you want me to do that for you?"[00:10:04] And that, that devastated me. [00:10:07] Jarrett: Yeah. [00:10:08] Nilah: And so from a very young age, I was like, wow, I have to get better at this cuz that's embarrassing. And so from five or six years old, I was just making this conscious effort to study and practice and be better at art. And my first subjects were animals cuz that's what I was interested in.[00:10:30] We had this magazine series called ZooBooks. And it was full of photos and illustrations of animals. And I would copy these, copy this art and learn animal anatomy from that. Later we got cable and I would watch discovery channel. And then I could see like animals in motion, and I love the Peanuts.[00:10:53] I love Charlie brown and Snoopy taught me how to draw animal toes. As a kid, I was, I would draw them wrong. And I knew they looked wrong, but I didn't know why. And so I would look at Snoopy's feet and how Charles Schultz drew Snoopy's feet. And I started drawing my feet more like that.[00:11:15] And... eventually, I came to understand why the way I was drawing feet before was wrong, anatomically and like that really, that really helped me take my drawings to the next level.[00:11:30] Jarrett: Yeah. [00:11:30] Nilah: And so it wasn't until much later that I really made the connection between animation and my own drawing, I just like watching cartoons and, I also love to draw.[00:11:42] And so as I got older, I, I did process drawing as a storytelling tool and would start drawing, drawing my own stories. And much, much later I got into anime, and... Also Disney started putting out those, like "Making-Of" specials [00:12:07] Jarrett: Yes! [00:12:07] Nilah: Where they talked about how they made animated films.[00:12:11] And that's when I started to learn; " Oh, people are drawing these movies." And that made, that kind of bridged things for me that you can, like that people make comics, people make animated cartoons, like people make children's books. And, I didn't understand where those illustrations came from or anything, but like seeing the process helped me connect the dots like; "Oh, I, as a person can also do this. I can, create stories with art."[00:12:44] Jarrett: And so growing, coming up then. You had art supplies you were drawing and what were your parents' reaction to that? Do they, they thought it was cute and then you'll outgrow it? Or what was that? What was that dynamic like for you? [00:13:05] Nilah: Oh, they thought it was real cute. My dad actually was known as an artist for a while.[00:13:10] He was in the military and I think... I'll have to ask my mom this. I think the story is that he actually considered going to college for art and he went into the military instead. And...[00:13:27] Jarrett: Those are two vastly opposite things![00:13:29] Nilah: Yeah. [00:13:30] Jarrett: Right?[00:13:30] Nilah: Yeah. And so he could draw as a kid, I found some of his some of his old sketches.[00:13:36] And he had a life drawing book, and he did a mural down in the basement that terrifies my nieces, now! It's this pirate face on this cinder block wall in the basement. And I guess when my nieces were growing up, this terrified them and they still don't like it. But so my dad drew and that's something I learned a little later.[00:13:59] It's not really people saw me drawing and they were like; "Oh, your father drew too." And so I learned about it that way. [00:14:07] Jarrett: Wow. [00:14:07] Nilah: My mom was a teacher, and so she would bring home reams of paper for me, and pencils, and drawing was a way to keep me quiet. So when we're at church or when we're out in public, she would just hand me and my brother like drawing supplies and we would go to town and, we would...[00:14:30] Be behaved. And so she, she liked that aspect of it. And then I got a little older and I would keep drawing and that fascinated small children. So it also kept other children quiet.[00:14:49] Everybody, everybody was like; "Yeah, Nilah! Keeping the peace, keeping everyone disciplined!" And that's all, it was for a long time until I was in high school. And I said; "Hey, I think I wanna go to art school." And then things took a turn [00:15:02] Jarrett: And they were like; "Wait a minute."[00:15:03] No, exactly. That's always the interesting thing, where it's supported. And then and it, what I've come to, to learn since years have passed since I was that age, that it comes from love. It comes from fear. Which is love for the kid of how is this kid gonna grow up to support themselves?[00:15:24] Nilah: Yeah. [00:15:24] Jarrett: Especially if it's a world that the parent or caretaker doesn't fully understand or know. Where and maybe and could be read between the lines, but, I don't never knew your dad never didn't know his childhood, but he chose what you know, was more, would be a more practical path.[00:15:39] So while that, that, like history was echoing in you then getting to that age and you went to art school, did you went to college to study art? [00:15:47] Nilah: I did. Yeah. [00:15:48] Jarrett: What, and what was your study? What did you study when you were there? [00:15:51] Nilah: Computer animation. [00:15:53] Jarrett: Oh yeah. And so animation was your... animation was like, that was your goal then?[00:15:58] Nilah: Yeah. [00:15:58] Jarrett: Yeah. [00:15:59] Nilah: Yeah. That was ever since I was 13. That was the end game for me. [00:16:04] Jarrett: And then, so you went to, you went to college and then you graduate from college and I'm sure your parents were like; "And now do you go to work at an office? Do you get a pension? Do you get a, do you get a 401k?" [00:16:16] Nilah: Yeah they didn't understand it for a long time.[00:16:19] And it didn't really materialize for a long time. And my mother was always very honest that she could offer me no advice. Cause vice cause when she was growing up, a black woman in the forties and fifties and sixties, she would say there were three options for us. Be a nurse, be a house cleaner or be a teacher.[00:16:41] And she picked teaching. Nowadays women and black women in particular have so many more options. And I would call home about my internal struggle about what I should be doing. And she'd be like; "Yeah, that sounds hard." [00:16:57] Jarrett: But she's, " I have nothing for you because I haven't walked that path,[00:17:00] other than, being a black woman who's dealt with society." And so... Right. Exactly. And so there, so yeah, there must have been so much fear. Obviously eventually... Oh yeah. You assuage those fears because you became very successful.[00:17:13] You became the first... [00:17:14] Nilah: So... [00:17:15] Jarrett: Yeah. Oh, go ahead. Go ahead. [00:17:16] Nilah: Yeah. Yeah. [00:17:16] The thing, so basically, my, my parents could never stop me. From doing what I was gonna do. And they both knew that. So they put the pressure on, but ultimately, the reason I ended up going to art school is... So we, we tried an animation, like an art trade school, art institutes, and that didn't work out.[00:17:42] And so I went with my mom's plan and did the whole four year college thing. I actually studied journalism and public relations. And when I finally went to Ringling College and studied animation, like I was an adult, I, at that point had a job. I had my own money. I had my own credit. And at this point my parents couldn't stop me.[00:18:06] So I went to art school under my own power and they just had to sit back and wait and see how things turned out. And yeah, there was a lot of fear and totally legitimate fear because we live in this culture that really doesn't support the arts as a career. [00:18:26] Jarrett: Yeah. [00:18:26] Nilah: Even now it's really hard to be an artist because, it's hard to get paid what we're worth. We're, we're still fighting this like societal image of artists as poor and free loaders and just an unnecessary expense. We're in a society where the arts in schools and arts foundations are constantly being defunded, and people don't really understand how much art and design impacts their everyday lives.[00:18:58] And and then, on top of that I think when you're a marginalized person, like your parents are always looking at where, what are the jobs? Where are the careers that people that look like us are thriving. And. That was not entertainment for black people. You don't see, you didn't see black people in those Disney specials. You... And nevermind that I was growing up on the east coast and we really didn't have an entertainment culture here, at least not in TV and film. Yeah. It's different in if you're growing up in California and you're surrounded by studios, who's working in those studios, but here, like there was no window to see where somebody with an animation degree could get a job.[00:19:43] Jarrett: And it's all, it is also, different when you're white, like growing up, I never had a search for characters that looked like me. I never had a search for seeing those specials. And so even though I was on the east coast, I was like; "Oh that's something I can do."[00:19:57] Nilah: Yeah. [00:19:58] Jarrett: But when growing up obviously that's ingrained if you don't see it. And because of your parents lived experience, there were, so there was, so the odds were so stacked against their daughter's favor and they want you to be happy and they want you to be healthy and they want you to succeed.[00:20:13] But you were UN you were unstoppable, you were just kept at it. And you had this love of art and story and you said, you, you said you studied journalism as well. So was like, what was your first paid gig as someone who put words on a paper? Was it journalism? Was it for a newspaper.[00:20:31] Nilah: It was journalism. It was, I think it was a food review. I think it was a restaurant review. Yeah. I worked toward the arts and entertainment department of a Western Maryland newspaper chain, which no longer exists sadly. But I got this job while I was in college. They were looking for interns and I got the internship.[00:20:52] And while I was interning the, the editor who hired me was like; "By the way, do you wanna do some writing?" And, looking back I'm like, what was the other part of this internship? Cuz all I remember is the writing. Like they, they definitely asked me to write in addition to interning, but I don't remember what the interning part was.[00:21:15] I do remember. The early writing gigs. And she was just like; "Hey, why don't you try doing a couple of food reviews?" And that was really cool. I got to go to restaurants and review, write a review. [00:21:27] Jarrett: Yeah. [00:21:27] Nilah: And then that summer there was there, was like a regime change at the paper and my editor rage quit.[00:21:37] And I was like; " I guess that's it for that job!" And so I was like that was fun. I worked for the newspaper for a few months. And then the editor who took our place called me and was like; "Hey, so I found your name on this list of freelance writers. Do you wanna keep writing for us?" And I was like; "Yeah, sure!"[00:21:59] and so he kept feeding me jobs and I didn't review restaurants again, but he would send me out to review gallery openings and to talk to local musicians and I speak to like local, owners of dance companies and theater companies and just this wide array of things. And I, my mom bought me a car cuz it was freaking her out.[00:22:24] I was basically walking around town at night to get to these jobs. And so she bought me a car. So I wouldn't do that. And so I was driving all around, Maryland, reviewing, like writing for this paper. And I did that for two years, through my junior and senior year of college. And then after I graduated and I did it up until the point that I got a full time job and just didn't have time anymore.[00:22:49] And yeah.[00:22:51] Jarrett: Moms are gonna mom forever. Never not gonna be your mom. Never not gonna be your mom looking out for you. And so you know that - granted you were pursuing degrees, but... it sounds like that was also like a whole other master's degree in, in learning about the arts. So you were studying... [00:23:08] Nilah: Yeah.[00:23:08] Jarrett: You were studying the stories of so many people who were you self-employed or making a go at, making a living via a non-traditional means. It's true. You must have met so many interesting people. I can't even, I'm sure that just yeah. Soaked into the fabric of who you became.[00:23:24] So what was your fulltime job? You said you had a full-time you said you had a full-time job. So you left that. What was your full-time case? [00:23:30] Nilah: I was a marketing writer for a health nonprofit. [00:23:34] Yeah. Sounds exciting. Was that super exciting? [00:23:38] Yes... [00:23:39] Jarrett: No? [00:23:39] Nilah: It was amazing. No, it was. So it was in like the DC Metro area and the commute was very long.[00:23:47] It was 70 minutes, one way. Ooh. On the DC beltway. And I'd have to leave home at, what, 4:30, 5 in the morning to get there before rush hour. And it was, it was a fine gig. This nonprofit runs a trade show. I think they do it every other year in Chicago. So while I was there, I got to go to Chicago and help coordinate this giant trade show which was actually that part was really cool.[00:24:17] It was, it was a fine job. It taught me, about the corporate space. It was pretty close to what I went to school to do. And they paid me well for a nonprofit. Like I had a competitive salary. It was, it was my first taste of money. [00:24:36] Jarrett: Yeah. Which is important to pay for things.[00:24:39] Nilah: Yeah.[00:24:40] Jarrett: like your basic needs and enjoyment for sure. [00:24:44] Nilah: And, at the time I was outlining this future and marketing and PR and that was gonna be it. But wow. I still, I still had this bug where I wanted to draw and write and working in marketing wasn't fully fulfilling it. And so I decided I wanted to give it another go.[00:25:06] I wanted to, I started just like poking at, looking at art programs, just, experimentally and ended up applying a lot faster than I thought I would and ended up going a lot faster than I thought I would. [00:25:25] Jarrett: And is that for a master's degree? Is that...[00:25:28] Nilah: No, a bachelor's. [00:25:29] Jarrett: For oh, for a bachelor's![00:25:31] Nilah: I have two bachelors and it feels so pointless.[00:25:35] Jarrett: Oh, here I am thinking like... Oh, I, my, like I'm always concerned. I'm not being a good listener... No, you went and got a second bachelors. [00:25:43] Nilah: I went and got a second. No one needs two bachelors. [00:25:45] Jarrett: Nilah Magruder. How are you? [00:25:49] Nilah: I'm doing pretty good. How are you? [00:25:52] Jarrett: Hangin', it in there Nilah, you will forever and ever be iconic in my home because your picture book, "How to Find a Fox" has been read so many times. So many times. In our home that it is held together by like scotch tape and like bubble gum.[00:26:14] Our son, we must have read that so many times. [00:26:18] Nilah: Oh my God.[00:26:18] Jarrett: Huge home run pal and I remember we met at Comics Crossroads in Ohio and we were tabling next to each other and, like we just were chatting the whole day and I'm always looking for something to bring home to the kids to make up for being gone.[00:26:31] And wow that book, man, I'm telling you like, iconic like that, that we will read that. I will read that to my grandkids, my wife and I will be reading that to our grandkids someday. So thank you for stop and a chat with us. But of course I what the show is all about of [00:26:47] course is about getting to know how creative people in comics got to be doing what they're doing.[00:26:54] And so I like to start at the very beginning cuz I, I love the idea and I also love the idea of imagine. A young author, an artist and getting to, to hear those stories directly from some of your favorite creators. My first question for you and it might really be the only question I ask and then we're gonna get into a conversation, but what was life like for you as a kid?[00:27:15] What was your home like? What was your family set up? What kind of art and stories were you consuming? What sort of laid the groundwork to create Nilah Magruder? [00:27:25] Nilah: My home life as a child, I grew up in a house in the woods in a small community back in a time where it was largely forest and largely rural.[00:27:38] And I think that had a lasting impact on how. I think visually in how I view story, the sort of stories that I'm interested in. A lot of the things I was interested at interested in as a kid were very pastoral and natural. I loved anything featuring animals and, honestly, I was isolated for a lot of my childhood.[00:28:05] This is something that you and I have in common. I had an alcoholic parent and as a kid, I didn't like to bring friends home because then they would see my dad and, whatever state that my dad was in, it was really unpredictable. I never quite knew what I was bringing friends into. So I didn't, bring friends here very much.[00:28:30] And I didn't go to friends' houses very much. And so a lot of my time was spent at home, but we were surrounded by this woodland, all of these trees and animals and so much nature. And that's really where I spent my time as a kid. Now, what I was interested in, like what I was ingesting, we had a small video rental store in the community, and this was long before Netflix.[00:29:04] This was even before Blockbuster. We didn't have a Blockbuster within driving distance. I'm not even sure if Blockbuster existed back then. And so we had this local mom and pop rental store and they would bring in videos from all over the world. A lot of imported... movies and television series.[00:29:29] And as a kid, I was interested in anything animated. If it was a cartoon, if it was drawn, I was there. And so like any cartoon that they had, I'd be like, mom, can we get this please? And I remember once I showed her one video that I hadn't watched yet, and I was like, mom, can we get this? And she looked at it, she looked at the cover and was like, no.[00:29:50] And she put it back and we never spoke of it again. and years later, like I was an adult on the internet and I saw this title called when the wind blows and I was like, oh, that's familiar. And I looked at the summary. I looked at the art from the movie and I was like, oh my God, that's it. That's that one movie that my mom wouldn't let me watch.[00:30:13] And so when the wind blows is a British animated film about nuclear fallout, And it's about it's about this couple. I think it's like a rural couple and there's this big catastrophe in England. And the government sends pamphlets out to everyone and is every, they're just like, don't panic everyone. It's fine.[00:30:40] Just stay at home. And so basically this couple they're older, they're very trusting. They're like the government knows what's best. So we'll just stay home. And eventually radiation reach reaches them and they get sick and die. [00:30:56] So... [00:30:57] Jarrett: what a prude! What a prude! What a...[00:31:00] Nilah: I know wouldn't let me. And then another time she was also a teacher and one day she brought home the animated Animal Farm.[00:31:08] Jarrett: Wow. Yeah.[00:31:09] Nilah: And, my thing is animals, of course. And she looks at me and she's do not watch this. And then she leaves it out. [00:31:17] Jarrett: Oh... [00:31:19] Nilah: And so one day when she wasn't there, I popped it in the VCR and watched it. And I think I was like nine or 10 at the time. And I loved it. So all that to say when I was a kid, I would just watch anything.[00:31:34] And so I was, and we had this rental store that would bring over anything. And so I was getting to watch animated movies from Japan and England and Russia and Canada, like Canada had a really great experimental animation program that was supported by the government. [00:31:52] Jarrett: Yeah.[00:31:52] Nilah: And so they were producing just like wild animated shorts and half the time, I didn't understand what I was watching, but because it was moving pictures, moving drawings, I was fascinated.[00:32:07] And a lot of the stuff that I look back on that I loved as a small child, it's very experimental and dark. And then I lived in this woodland that was also creepy, a lot of animals lived here and also a lot of people in the community were like fascinated cuz our home was situated secluded.[00:32:30] And so people would come drive through late at night just to, see the house or they'd, walk through, like it was a public park here. [00:32:41] Jarrett: Oh. [00:32:41] Nilah: So I had this experience as a child of just like constantly our space just constantly being invaded by strangers. And it was like scary, you're in bed at night....[00:32:57] And headlights reflected on your wall. Yeah. And you're a little kid and you're just like, oh my gosh. [00:33:04] Jarrett: Yeah. [00:33:05] Nilah: I have this, like I have this just this little, knot from my childhood, that's very, just creepy and wild and mysterious. And then I write children's books. [00:33:19] Jarrett: Yeah. It's not easy to be a creative kid who then you when you have worries, because then your creativity, which I've only realized now as an adult, like your imagination really creates scenarios in your head.[00:33:36] Nilah: Yeah![00:33:36] Jarrett: And I wanna point out to the listeners that it's remarkable. That you had access to VHS tapes of cartoons from other countries in that time period. Sometimes when I'm book touring and I talk to readers and they said; "did you love anime when you were a teenager?" And I didn't really have access to it.[00:33:55] I grew up in a suburban, urban area and my rental shop, which was another mom and pop rental shop. They didn't have that creative, curated collection. So how remarkable that, whoever it was that was down the street from you who had this, you know, who had an appetite for this flavor of creative cartoons, because otherwise you would've just been seeing like just Disney and nothing else.[00:34:21] That's, this kinda was the only game in town back then. [00:34:24] Nilah: Yeah. [00:34:24] Yeah. It is like looking back on it. I think that too, it's very odd. [00:34:29] Jarrett: Yeah. [00:34:30] Nilah: Like, how we had so many dubs at the time, but also that this little, this little spot in rural, Maryland was getting all of these videos and yeah, it was pretty, and this was before cable too.[00:34:47] Like we didn't have cable at the time, a lot of my access to animation was through this little rental shop. [00:34:56] Jarrett: Wow. Wow. And so did you love to draw before or after? Can you, or was it simultaneous love of animation and drawing for you? [00:35:06] Nilah: I think the animation came before and I always tell people that I was.[00:35:13] Bad at art at that age. And I'm talking about when I was in kindergarten, so five or six , who's good at art at that age? But it was this I was really bad at coloring in the lines. [00:35:25] Jarrett: Oh, that showed, that did show - sorry to cut you off - but all that did was show promise.[00:35:30] Nilah: Yeah.[00:35:31] Jarrett: All that did was show promise in your work. So it sounds like you had someone somewhere to say, no, you're supposed to color in the lines. And then you're like, oh, what?[00:35:38] Nilah: It was my peers, I remember sitting at a table in kindergarten and I'm coloring. And one of the little girls next to me was like, "Nilah, do you want me to do that for you?"[00:35:50] And that, that devastated me. [00:35:53] Jarrett: Yeah. [00:35:53] Nilah: And so from a very young age, I was like, wow, I have to get better at this cuz that's embarrassing. And so from five or six years old, I was just making this conscious effort to study and practice and be better at art. And my first subjects were animals cuz that's what I was interested in.[00:36:16] We had this magazine series called ZooBooks. And it was full of photos and illustrations of animals. And I would copy these, copy this art and learn animal anatomy from that. Later we got cable and I would watch discovery channel. And then I could see like animals in motion, and I love the Peanuts.[00:36:39] I love Charlie brown and Snoopy taught me how to draw animal toes. As a kid, I was, I would draw them wrong. And I knew they looked wrong, but I didn't know why. And so I would look at Snoopy's feet and how Charles Schultz drew Snoopy's feet. And I started drawing my feet more like that.[00:37:01] And... eventually, I came to understand why the way I was drawing feet before was wrong, anatomically and like that really, that really helped me take my drawings to the next level.[00:37:15] Jarrett: Yeah. [00:37:15] Nilah: And so it wasn't until much later that I really made the connection between animation and my own drawing, I just like watching cartoons and, I also love to draw.[00:37:27] And so as I got older, I, I did process drawing as a storytelling tool and would start drawing, drawing my own stories. And much, much later I got into anime, and... Also Disney started putting out those, like "Making-Of" specials [00:37:52] Jarrett: Yes! [00:37:53] Nilah: Where they talked about how they made animated films.[00:37:57] And that's when I started to learn; " Oh, people are drawing these movies." And that made, that kind of bridged things for me that you can, like that people make comics, people make animated cartoons, like people make children's books. And, I didn't understand where those illustrations came from or anything, but like seeing the process helped me connect the dots like; "Oh, I, as a person can also do this. I can, create stories with art."[00:38:30] Jarrett: And so growing, coming up then. You had art supplies you were drawing and what were your parents' reaction to that? Do they, they thought it was cute and then you'll outgrow it? Or what was that? What was that dynamic like for you? [00:38:51] Nilah: Oh, they thought it was real cute. My dad actually was known as an artist for a while.[00:38:56] He was in the military and I think... I'll have to ask my mom this. I think the story is that he actually considered going to college for art and he went into the military instead. And...[00:39:12] Jarrett: Those are two vastly opposite things![00:39:15] Nilah: Yeah. [00:39:16] Jarrett: Right?[00:39:16] Nilah: Yeah. And so he could draw as a kid, I found some of his some of his old sketches.[00:39:21] And he had a life drawing book, and he did a mural down in the basement that terrifies my nieces, now! It's this pirate face on this cinder block wall in the basement. And I guess when my nieces were growing up, this terrified them and they still don't like it. But so my dad drew and that's something I learned a little later.[00:39:45] It's not really people saw me drawing and they were like; "Oh, your father drew too." And so I learned about it that way. [00:39:52] Jarrett: Wow. [00:39:53] Nilah: My mom was a teacher, and so she would bring home reams of paper for me, and pencils, and drawing was a way to keep me quiet. So when we're at church or when we're out in public, she would just hand me and my brother like drawing supplies and we would go to town and, we would...[00:40:16] Be behaved. And so she, she liked that aspect of it. And then I got a little older and I would keep drawing and that fascinated small children. So it also kept other children quiet.[00:40:35] Everybody, everybody was like; "Yeah, Nilah! Keeping the peace, keeping everyone disciplined!" And that's all, it was for a long time until I was in high school. And I said; "Hey, I think I wanna go to art school." And then things took a turn [00:40:47] Jarrett: And they were like; "Wait a minute."[00:40:49] No, exactly. That's always the interesting thing, where it's supported. And then and it, what I've come to, to learn since years have passed since I was that age, that it comes from love. It comes from fear. Which is love for the kid of how is this kid gonna grow up to support themselves?[00:41:09] Nilah: Yeah. [00:41:10] Jarrett: Especially if it's a world that the parent or caretaker doesn't fully understand or know. Where and maybe and could be read between the lines, but, I don't never knew your dad never didn't know his childhood, but he chose what you know, was more, would be a more practical path.[00:41:25] So while that, that, like history was echoing in you then getting to that age and you went to art school, did you went to college to study art? [00:41:33] Nilah: I did. Yeah. [00:41:34] Jarrett: What, and what was your study? What did you study when you were there? [00:41:36] Nilah: Computer animation. [00:41:39] Jarrett: Oh yeah. And so animation was your... animation was like, that was your goal then?[00:41:43] Nilah: Yeah. [00:41:44] Jarrett: Yeah. [00:41:44] Nilah: Yeah. That was ever since I was 13. That was the end game for me. [00:41:50] Jarrett: And then, so you went to, you went to college and then you graduate from college and I'm sure your parents were like; "And now do you go to work at an office? Do you get a pension? Do you get a, do you get a 401k?" [00:42:02] Nilah: Yeah they didn't understand it for a long time.[00:42:04] And it didn't really materialize for a long time. And my mother was always very honest that she could offer me no advice. Cause vice cause when she was growing up, a black woman in the forties and fifties and sixties, she would say there were three options for us. Be a nurse, be a house cleaner or be a teacher.[00:42:27] And she picked teaching. Nowadays women and black women in particular have so many more options. And I would call home about my internal struggle about what I should be doing. And she'd be like; "Yeah, that sounds hard." [00:42:43] Jarrett: But she's, " I have nothing for you because I haven't walked that path,[00:42:46] other than, being a black woman who's dealt with society." And so... Right. Exactly. And so there, so yeah, there must have been so much fear. Obviously eventually... Oh yeah. You assuage those fears because you became very successful.[00:42:59] You became the first... [00:43:00] Nilah: So... [00:43:00] Jarrett: Yeah. Oh, go ahead. Go ahead. [00:43:01] Nilah: Yeah. Yeah. [00:43:02] The thing, so basically, my, my parents could never stop me. From doing what I was gonna do. And they both knew that. So they put the pressure on, but ultimately, the reason I ended up going to art school is... So we, we tried an animation, like an art trade school, art institutes, and that didn't work out.[00:43:27] And so I went with my mom's plan and did the whole four year college thing. I actually studied journalism and public relations. And when I finally went to Ringling College and studied animation, like I was an adult, I, at that point had a job. I had my own money. I had my own credit. And at this point my parents couldn't stop me.[00:43:52] So I went to art school under my own power and they just had to sit back and wait and see how things turned out. And yeah, there was a lot of fear and totally legitimate fear because we live in this culture that really doesn't support the arts as a career. [00:44:12] Jarrett: Yeah. [00:44:12] Nilah: Even now it's really hard to be an artist because, it's hard to get paid what we're worth. We're, we're still fighting this like societal image of artists as poor and free loaders and just an unnecessary expense. We're in a society where the arts in schools and arts foundations are constantly being defunded, and people don't really understand how much art and design impacts their everyday lives.[00:44:44] And and then, on top of that I think when you're a marginalized person, like your parents are always looking at where, what are the jobs? Where are the careers that people that look like us are thriving. And. That was not entertainment for black people. You don't see, you didn't see black people in those Disney specials. You... And nevermind that I was growing up on the east coast and we really didn't have an entertainment culture here, at least not in TV and film. Yeah. It's different in if you're growing up in California and you're surrounded by studios, who's working in those studios, but here, like there was no window to see where somebody with an animation degree could get a job.[00:45:29] Jarrett: And it's all, it is also, different when you're white, like growing up, I never had a search for characters that looked like me. I never had a search for seeing those specials. And so even though I was on the east coast, I was like; "Oh that's something I can do."[00:45:43] Nilah: Yeah. [00:45:44] Jarrett: But when growing up obviously that's ingrained if you don't see it. And because of your parents lived experience, there were, so there was, so the odds were so stacked against their daughter's favor and they want you to be happy and they want you to be healthy and they want you to succeed.[00:45:59] But you were UN you were unstoppable, you were just kept at it. And you had this love of art and story and you said, you, you said you studied journalism as well. So was like, what was your first paid gig as someone who put words on a paper? Was it journalism? Was it for a newspaper.[00:46:16] Nilah: It was journalism. It was, I think it was a food review. I think it was a restaurant review. Yeah. I worked toward the arts and entertainment department of a Western Maryland newspaper chain, which no longer exists sadly. But I got this job while I was in college. They were looking for interns and I got the internship.[00:46:38] And while I was interning the, the editor who hired me was like; "By the way, do you wanna do some writing?" And, looking back I'm like, what was the other part of this internship? Cuz all I remember is the writing. Like they, they definitely asked me to write in addition to interning, but I don't remember what the interning part was.[00:47:01] I do remember. The early writing gigs. And she was just like; "Hey, why don't you try doing a couple of food reviews?" And that was really cool. I got to go to restaurants and review, write a review. [00:47:12] Jarrett: Yeah. [00:47:13] Nilah: And then that summer there was there, was like a regime change at the paper and my editor rage quit.[00:47:22] And I was like; " I guess that's it for that job!" And so I was like that was fun. I worked for the newspaper for a few months. And then the editor who took our place called me and was like; "Hey, so I found your name on this list of freelance writers. Do you wanna keep writing for us?" And I was like; "Yeah, sure!"[00:47:45] and so he kept feeding me jobs and I didn't review restaurants again, but he would send me out to review gallery openings and to talk to local musicians and I speak to like local, owners of dance companies and theater companies and just this wide array of things. And I, my mom bought me a car cuz it was freaking her out.[00:48:10] I was basically walking around town at night to get to these jobs. And so she bought me a car. So I wouldn't do that. And so I was driving all around, Maryland, reviewing, like writing for this paper. And I did that for two years, through my junior and senior year of college. And then after I graduated and I did it up until the point that I got a full time job and just didn't have time anymore.[00:48:35] And yeah.[00:48:37] Jarrett: Moms are gonna mom forever. Never not gonna be your mom. Never not gonna be your mom looking out for you. And so you know that - granted you were pursuing degrees, but... it sounds like that was also like a whole other master's degree in, in learning about the arts. So you were studying... [00:48:54] Nilah: Yeah.[00:48:54] Jarrett: You were studying the stories of so many people who were you self-employed or making a go at, making a living via a non-traditional means. It's true. You must have met so many interesting people. I can't even, I'm sure that just yeah. Soaked into the fabric of who you became.[00:49:10] So what was your fulltime job? You said you had a full-time you said you had a full-time job. So you left that. What was your full-time case? [00:49:15] Nilah: I was a marketing writer for a health nonprofit. [00:49:20] Yeah. Sounds exciting. Was that super exciting? [00:49:24] Yes... [00:49:24] Jarrett: No? [00:49:25] Nilah: It was amazing. No, it was. So it was in like the DC Metro area and the commute was very long.[00:49:33] It was 70 minutes, one way. Ooh. On the DC beltway. And I'd have to leave home at, what, 4:30, 5 in the morning to get there before rush hour. And it was, it was a fine gig. This nonprofit runs a trade show. I think they do it every other year in Chicago. So while I was there, I got to go to Chicago and help coordinate this giant trade show which was actually that part was really cool.[00:50:03] It was, it was a fine job. It taught me, about the corporate space. It was pretty close to what I went to school to do. And they paid me well for a nonprofit. Like I had a competitive salary. It was, it was my first taste of money. [00:50:22] Jarrett: Yeah. Which is important to pay for things.[00:50:25] Nilah: Yeah.[00:50:25] Jarrett: like your basic needs and enjoyment for sure. [00:50:30] Nilah: And, at the time I was outlining this future and marketing and PR and that was gonna be it. But wow. I still, I still had this bug where I wanted to draw and write and working in marketing wasn't fully fulfilling it. And so I decided I wanted to give it another go.[00:50:52] I wanted to, I started just like poking at, looking at art programs, just, experimentally and ended up applying a lot faster than I thought I would and ended up going a lot faster than I thought I would. [00:51:11] Jarrett: And is that for a master's degree? Is that...[00:51:13] Nilah: No, a bachelor's. [00:51:15] Jarrett: For oh, for a bachelor's![00:51:16] Nilah: I have two bachelors and it feels so pointless.[00:51:21] Jarrett: Oh, here I am thinking like... Oh, I, my, like I'm always concerned. I'm not being a good listener... No, you went and got a second bachelors. [00:51:28] Nilah: I went and got a second. No one needs two bachelors.  [00:00:00] Jarrett: So hold up, you went and got a second bachelor's degree. Like...[00:00:05] Nilah: I went and got a second bachelor's.[00:00:07] Jarrett: And in what? So your first bachelor, your first bachelor's was in computer animation. [00:00:12] Nilah: My first bachelor's was in... Communications. [00:00:17] Oh...[00:00:18] Yeah.[00:00:19] Jarrett: I see. Then yeah. Two bachelors, but they're completely different.[00:00:22] Nilah: Completely different. [00:00:23] Jarrett: And what a different experience too, of being, an older student you're not fresh out of high school, you I'm sure you, your approach to the academics and what you were learning were so different, right? [00:00:35] Nilah: Yeah. Honestly, I was an older student both times.[00:00:39] I, I skipped a year when I when I graduated high school, me and my mom fought over the art school thing. And then I ended up not going to college that first year. And so I was older when I went to that first four year college, hood college. It was actually a women's college at the time.[00:00:56] So I was entering, I think at 19 instead of 18. And then when I went to Ringling, I was 25. So I was... Much, not the oldest adult student there, but I was older than all the 18 year olds coming in. Yeah. And it, it definitely, it's a different perspec- perspective for sure. This was not my first career attempt, it wasn't, at 18, like there's so much pressure to choose a career, choose it now and go to college for that career and stay in that career.[00:01:28] So you can pay back those student loans. And I didn't have that. I, animation was like I had my plan B already. I had my fallback career. Like I had my degree in marketing that I could always fall back on if the animation thing didn't work out. So animation was just like a fully like personal choice that I was making.[00:01:52] Jarrett: Yeah. [00:01:53] Nilah: Everything I did at that point, I, I did it as, a fully consenting adult. [00:01:58] Jarrett: And you, so then you had your second graduation and your family; "Didn't we do this seven years ago?" And... [00:02:05] Nilah: Yeah. [00:02:05] Jarrett: So you're like launching into the world a whole second time. That's like a caterpillar becoming a butterfly twice.[00:02:12] Yeah. [00:02:13] Nilah: Yeah. It was very it was very interesting. [00:02:16] Jarrett: Yeah! [00:02:16] Nilah: But... [00:02:17] Jarrett: Yeah so you, but you wow, but amazing that you had the foresight to say; "Okay, let me reset. Let me really follow the passion." Like you...[00:02:27] Nilah: Yeah. [00:02:27] Jarrett: And you learned a lot in that corporate space too, because we're artists.[00:02:31] But we still have to deal with the corporations who publish the work or help promote the work. So what was your, so then what was your first paid gig after getting a degree in animation? [00:02:42] Nilah: My first paid gig was in publishing because I couldn't get an animation job. I entered Ringling at the start of the recession.[00:02:50] Leading up to 2006, 2007, all of the feedback coming out of Ringling was come to this school and you'll get a high paid job in animation and... [00:03:06] Jarrett: Speaking of marketing. [00:03:10] Nilah: Right. And then I entered Ringling that, that year, 2007, And like we're in school, we're just watching on the news, all the jobs dry up.[00:03:24] Jarrett: Oh. [00:03:24] Nilah: And so it was basically for all of us, it was like this three or four year, wait to see, will there be jobs when we get out. And for me there wasn't. So my first job out of Ringling, I graduated in 2010, was a publisher in Maryland. And I was falling back on my previous career for that, I had, because of my earlier experiences, I had the credentials for this job.[00:03:56] I stayed for seven months. It was, it was a position that ended up being, not as advertised. And... [00:04:06] Jarrett: Yeah, yeah. [00:04:07] Nilah: And during this year that I was home was, it was difficult. My aunt died that year. And so my family needed me at home, but also so it reignited that fear my mom had of me leaving.[00:04:24] And so I was really trying to stay in Maryland. And at the same time, like there was just this thought in my head that I hadn't given animation, like a full try. Like I was trying to find work while being at home. Cuz I, I had nowhere else to go knowing that all of the work was in California. And no one would hire me here in Maryland, because most places they wanted someone right away.[00:04:59] And like, why hire someone in Maryland and wait for them to move out when you can just hire one of these thousands of people hanging around LA looking for work. So I ended up just packing all my things into my car and moving to LA that summer 2000 that fall 2011. And so at this point I'd been out of school for over a year and still did not have a job in animation.[00:05:31] And I was writing completely on my savings and the savings. Once I got to LA the savings dried up very quickly, I was completely broke and I was applying everywhere. And getting, getting nowhere. I got so desperate that I was applying for retail and that wasn't working out either. I couldn't, it was so dry.[00:05:55] I couldn't even get a retail job. I applied for a, an unpaid internship and I didn't get that either. I couldn't even get a job where I worked for free. And I was ready to throw in the towel, but I didn't have enough money to afford to move back home.[00:06:20] Jarrett: You couldn't afford to even buy the towel to throw it at that point.[00:06:23] Nilah: Yeah. [00:06:24] Yeah. Like my mom start, my mom was paying my rent. [00:06:27] Jarrett: Yeah. [00:06:28] Nilah: And she could have barely afford that. Like my parents were both retired and in January, 2012, I... I happened to see a listing on Ringling's job website for a little company in Burbank. And I got an interview there. They were, they did mostly live action work, but they were hiring their first in-house artist.[00:06:58] And the company was run by Florida state alums. I think it's Florida state. I can't remember now wow it's been a while, but oh, that's embarrassing if they watch this. But they had this Florida connection. So they, when they were hiring for this position, they decided to put a listing on the Ringling job site because Ringling is also in Florida, and I got the job.[00:07:26] Jarrett: Yes![00:07:26] Nilah: And that was my first LA job. It was the company is called Soapbox Films. and at the time they were doing a lot of like marketing and live action production, mainly for Disney. So if you ever heard of like Movie Surfers in like the early two thousands, I think they, the Disney channel had this program called Movie Surfers and Soapbox, like back in that day, Soapbox was the one developing that.[00:08:01] Jarrett: Yeah. [00:08:02] Nilah: They do a lot of production with the Muppets. They're one of a handful of studios in LA that are equipped to work with the Muppets. [00:08:10] Jarrett: Whoa. That's not an easy thing to get.[00:08:13] Nilah: Yeah, and they do what is called toolkit for animated films. Toolkit is like just it's a package of assets that the studios will use to advertise their animated films and to develop toolkit.[00:08:32] You need a storyboard artist and that's what they hired me for. [00:08:39] Jarrett: That's fantastic. So now you're getting paid to draw pictures that tell stories. [00:08:44] Nilah: Yeah. [00:08:44] Finally getting paid, just draw pictures. [00:08:47] Jarrett: You're on your way moving right along Fozzie and Kermit saying as they're driving across country. [00:08:52] Nilah: Yeah. [00:08:53] Jarrett: Oh man. And so that must have, that must have led to other things, right? [00:08:57] Nilah: It allowed me to stay in LA. [00:08:59] Jarrett: Yeah. [00:08:59] Nilah: They were, this was this was the conflict My time at Soapbox was great. I stayed there for three years, but it wasn't, it allowed me to tread water in Los Angeles, but it wasn't a stepping stone really to the next thing, because everything that I did there was so specific to what Soapbox did.[00:09:24] It didn't translate well to other jobs at other studios. So I couldn't use anything I was doing there in my portfolio. So if I wanted to, if I wanted to work in TV and film, which was still the goal, I had to develop my portfolio pieces outside of work. At this time I was, I had my day job at [00:09:50] Soapbox, but I was also still figuring out what is my career though.[00:09:55] Yeah. And there were times like I'd go through this cycle at Soapbox where I would try really hard to get out. So I'd be submitting my storyboarding portfolio to other studios and nothing would materialize. And I'd give up after six months and I'd say, you know what, let me just hunker down and focus on my time here at Soapbox.[00:10:17] And maybe this can become a long term career. And so I would really like put all of my energy into being like the best Soapbox employee I could be. And then after six months, I'd be like; "I can't take this. I can't do this anymore. I have to get out." And so I'd re-up and put all of my energy into storyboard portfolio stuff and try again.[00:10:43] And I did this for three years and meanwhile I fell into comics in children's books a little bit. Cause at this point, I was so desperate for money I was so desperate. Like I was just like clinging on by my fingernails. And I just needed something to work. And so I was, utilizing the skills I had, which were basically writing and drawing.[00:11:11] And I started a web comic and I started, I joined society of children's book, writers and illustrators, so I could learn how to make children's books. And I was doing picture book dumies and trying to write novels and looking for an agent and drawing this web comic in my spare time outside of Soapbox.[00:11:34] And, also, putting storyboard portfolios together. And so I did this for three years and then finally in 2015, everything changed. I submitted my web comic to the Dwayne McDuffy award for diversity and won that. I... [00:11:55] Jarrett: And hold on. You were the inaugural winner too! [00:11:58] Nilah: I was the inaugural winner.[00:12:00] Jarrett: You were the first person ever to win that award. [00:12:02] Nilah: It was bonkers. Yeah. I, and I was so used to losing at that point that and the competition was so stiff. I was like, I got nominated. And I was like that was a fun experience, but I'm never gonna win a little web comic with a very small following is not gonna win against all these like actual comics.[00:12:28] I was up against Ms. Marvel, and I believe Shaft by David Walker, and Hex 11. And I was just like, that's the end of the road. And, but it won MFK one. [00:12:41] Jarrett: Yeah. [00:12:41] Nilah: And it, it was the start of a very different... It was the start of things for me. [00:12:47] Jarrett: Yeah. Yeah. And and I do think film, and graphic novels, they do have a lot in common.[00:12:53] I look to film to inspire how I, I write my graphic novels and yeah. I have to say so a couple months ago, I was just, just binge watching some shows on Disney plus and they have this show that's about the history of Marvel. And then there was one episode about the women of Marvel and the women who've written for Marvel and how certainly they were there in the beginning, but they weren't necessarily writing the stories.[00:13:18] They were, they, it was everything back then in the world of comics, like most of the world too, and most of the country was, chauvinistic. And so I'm just watching and I'm so fascinated hearing these stories of these pioneers. And then you pop up on the show. I was like, wait a minute.[00:13:36] I don't need to see the, I didn't need to see the little name at the bottom. Like I know that's Nilah. And you became the first black woman to write for Marvel comics. [00:13:47] Nilah: Isn't that bonkers, like... [00:13:50] Jarrett: It is bonkers! Tell me about that. Tell me about your mom's reaction because there is something you said in something you'd said in the show was something about your back in the day.[00:14:05] Was it like your mom's was your mom's friends giving her flack or something? [00:14:09] Nilah: Oh yeah. [00:14:10] Yeah. I don't even know if I've told my mom that I'm the first black writer for Marvel, because some things I say about my career just mean nothing to her. [00:14:18] So... But... [00:14:21] Jarrett: Like I said: moms are gonna, mom.[00:14:23] Nilah: Moms are gonna mom.[00:14:24] Jarrett: No matter what.[00:14:26] Nilah: But, I didn't realize the extent of this coming up, but when I decided to go down this path like my mom's older black lady, friends in, Maryland middle class, Maryland were really judgey about it. And like one of them once asked me because I, the art school thing had not yet materialized.[00:14:46] And she was like; "Oh, so are you finally over that art hobby yet?"[00:14:51] Jarrett: Oof. [00:14:53] Nilah: And I, I didn't realize this either, but there's this other family friend that we don't speak to anymore. And I thought that we just drifted apart, but turns out like going to art school was like a point of contention for her.[00:15:08] Jarrett: Wow. [00:15:08] Nilah: And. And it's such a weird thing to think about that she would distance herself from our entire family over, over a personal choice that I made. [00:15:17] Jarrett: It's not witchcraft! It's not witch... I mean like sacrificing rabbits on the full moon or something. I don't...[00:15:24] Nilah: Right.. It's, yeah, but... [00:15:27] Jarrett: Wow. Wow. [00:15:29] Nilah: So like my mother, wasn't telling me about this.[00:15:33] She wasn't telling me that like her friends were coming down hard on her and she had to defend me [00:15:41] Jarrett: Wow![00:15:41] Nilah: And defend my choices. But when I started working for Dreamworks and Disney, she finally got her vindication, cuz she would say; "Hey, my kid works at Disney now." And they understood that. [00:15:55] Jarrett: Yes they, they certainly did.[00:15:57] Nilah: Yeah. [00:15:57] Jarrett: And run us through some of your credits of, cause I know you from the book world and I know that you've done stuff for Dreamworks and Disney, but what kind of jobs have you done over these years? [00:16:07] Nilah: So I was a storyboard revisionist on Dino Trucks at Dreamworks, and Dino Trucks is a Netflix show.[00:16:17] You can watch it on Netflix. It's just what it sounds like. It's dinosaur trucks. And it's based on a children's book.[00:16:23] Jarrett: And it's based on a children's book. You can't escape now. We're bringing you over just the same. You're in this publishing game too! [00:16:32] Nilah: At Disney, I hopped onto Tangled, the series. [00:16:36] Jarrett: Oh.[00:16:37] Nilah: Which is based on the movie. [00:16:38] Jarrett: Yeah. We love that show in my house. What did you do then? [00:16:41] Nilah: Yeah. [00:16:41] Jarrett: What did you do on the show? [00:16:43] Nilah: I was also a storyboard revisionist there. And so storyboard revisionists... They're basically the support team for storyboard artists. So they, the storyboard artists do their thing and storyboard revisionists help make sure that the storyboards are ready for the next process in the pipeline.[00:17:04] Jarrett: Okay. [00:17:05] Nilah: So we it's a lot of drawing. It's a lot of support drawing just to, to tighten things up for the animators. God what happened next? I was a writer for Cannon Busters produced by LaSean Thomas. [00:17:21] Jarrett: Wow.[00:17:22] Nilah: I was a writer for Polly Pocket.[00:17:27] Jarrett: Nice. [00:17:27] Nilah: Which is based on... [00:17:29] Iconic!. [00:17:30] Yeah. Yeah. Poly pocket is still around [00:17:33] Jarrett: Iconic. That's wild. Yeah. And you illustrated the Rick Riordan and Heroes of Olympus books too. [00:17:42] Nilah: Yeah![00:17:43] Jarrett: Goodness like that is huge. For you, you don't get bigger in publishing than Rick Riordan. [00:17:50] Nilah: It's true. Yeah.[00:17:52] Jarrett: And, And animals and fantasy. And you illustrated the covers for our friend Daniel Jose Older, the Dactyl Hill Squad books.[00:18:01] Nilah: That was my first time drawing dinosaurs in my life. [00:18:05] Jarrett: Really? I, would've never known that. I had never known that. [00:18:08] Nilah: Aside from Dino Trucks, but that was a very different thing. [00:18:11] Jarrett: Yeah. Those are more trucks than dinosaurs, right? Yeah. [00:18:13] Nilah: Yeah. It was wild. Like I had to learn dinosaur anatomy. [00:18:18] Jarrett: And so where in, where did all of that did Marvel come calling? [00:18:21] Nilah: So back in 2016, I think it all happened very fast. This was after the Dwayne McDuffy award and I never got a clear answer on how they found me. It might have been Twitter, but an editor from Marvel reached out one day and said; "Hey, would you like to write a short story for us on this new series called the Year of Marvels?" And they pitched a Rocket Raccoon -Tippy-Toe Squirrel team up and of course animals.[00:18:59] Jarrett: Yeah. [00:19:00] Nilah: So...[00:19:00] Jarrett: It's your wheelhouse! [00:19:01] Nilah: Yeah. Yeah. So I took it of course. And that kind of got things rolling. Once you're, once you write for a Marvel you're in the Marvel family. So...[00:19:09] Jarrett: Yeah. [00:19:10] Nilah: I didn't, I did that and didn't, work with them for a long while after that. And so it just so happened. I didn't know this at the time I was completely unprepared. But that ended up being their first writing credit by a black woman. And so 70 years into Marvel's history and it was just this little short di

Robin Ha's ALMOST AMERICAN GIRL is a powerful, powerful graphic memoir. Through Robin's words and pictures, she shares with us what it was like for her to be a kid in her early teens and be taken away from the life she knew in South Korea and planted in Huntsville, Alabama, where she didn't understand the language that was predominantly spoken. She didn't understand the culture. She didn't have friends, she didn't fit in, but she had art. Robin just so beautifully and masterfully uses the speech bubbles to communicate to us what that is like when you only understand bits and pieces of what people are trying to say to you. ALMOST AMERICAN GIRL should be in every single high school classroom so that our students can truly understand the plight of the immigrant experience.So let's get to know how Robin Ha became Robin Ha!

Origin Stories is sponsored in part by High Five Books, a beautiful and incredible indie bookshop here in Florence, Massachusetts. Check out StudioJJK.com/OriginStories for links to buy Lucy's books from this fabulous indie. And while you are over on the High Five website, check out their curated lists of book recommendations. Truly High Five Worthy.If you are enjoying my chat with Lucy and want to SEE the conversation, which includes visuals of the books we reference, check out StudioJJK.com/OriginStories. I recorded this talk via Switcher Studio. Switcher Studio is a simple and powerful IOS app that makes your live video feeds look like a professional produced piece. Your iPad becomes like the production control room as you switch between your iPhone camera (which acts as a webcam), your remote guests, and any pre-recorded video or visuals you want to bring on screen. I would like to thank Switcher Studio for sponsoring this podcast. And as a thank you to you for listening, you may use code “StudioJJK” at switcherstudio.com to receive a free month of the service!

Hi! I'm graphic novelist Jarrett J. Krosoczka and welcome to Origin Stories. In this podcast, I go on a deep dive into the upbringings and artistic developments of some of the very brightest and most talented graphic novelists working today. In this episode, we are going to get to know how Jerry Craft became Jerry Craft!I like to rib Jerry and call him an “overnight success.” Jerry's first full-length graphic novel, NEW KID, published in 2019. And it did what many in the publishing community thought for years was unattainable—it won the prestigious Newbery Medal. THE GOLD MEDAL—for a graphic novel. While the Newbery is quite arguably the most legendary of the book awards, NEW KID also garnered Jerry a Coretta Scott King MEDAL for writing! Truthfully, I lost count as to how many awards stickers Jerry's book won. NEW KID is such an important book. We follow Jordan Banks and we get to see the world through his eyes, a young Black man who enters a predominantly white private school. Oh, and why is it ironic to call Jerry an “Overnight success”? Well, you're about to find out!Let's get to know Jerry Craft's Origin Story!Before we get into my conversation with Jerry Craft, Origin Stories is sponsored in part by High Five Books, a beautiful and incredible indie bookshop here in Florence, Massachusetts. Check out StudioJJK.com/OriginStories for links to buy Raul's books from this fabulous indie. They even have a limited supply of autographed copies. And while you are over on the High Five website, check out their curated lists of book recommendations. Truly High Five Worthy. Okay, on to my chat with … JERRY CRAFT!If you are enjoying my chat with Jerry and want to SEE the conversation, which includes visuals of the books we reference, check out StudioJJK.com/OriginStories. I recorded this talk via Switcher Studio. Switcher Studio is a simple and powerful IOS app that makes your live video feeds look like a professionally produced piece. Your iPad becomes like the production control room as you switch between your iPhone camera (which acts as a webcam), your remote guests, and any pre-recorded video or visuals you want to bring on screen. I would like to thank Switcher Studio for sponsoring this podcast. And as a thank you to you for listening, you may use code “StudioJJK” at switcherstudio.com to receive a free month of the service!

Hi! I'm graphic novelist Jarrett J. Krosoczka and welcome to Origin Stories. In this podcast, I go on a deep dive into the upbringings and artistic developments of some of the very brightest and most talented graphic novelists working today. In this episode, we are going to get to know how Raul the Third became Raul the Third!Raul blasted onto the comics scene in 2014, with the publication of LOWRIDERS IN SPACE. Written by Cathy Camper and illustrated by Raul, this beautiful graphic novel series celebrates lowrider culture through an action-packed out-of-this-world adventure. Raul made his debut as an author/illustrator in 2019 with Vamos! Let's Go to the Market, a picture book that celebrates Raul's own origins growing up in a border town in Texas. The Vamos series took off, creating an entire universe of Raul's making. More picture books, early readers, plushies, and even an animated cartoon in the works!Let's get to know Raul the Third's Origin Story.Before we get into my conversation with Raul the Third, Origin Stories is sponsored in part by High Five Books, a beautiful and incredible indie bookshop here in Florence, Massachusetts. Check out StudioJJK.com/OriginStories for links to buy Raul's books from this fabulous indie. They even have a limited supply of autographed copies. And while you are over on the High Five website, check out their curated lists of book recommendations. Truly High Five Worthy. Okay, on to my chat with …If you are enjoying my chat with Raul and want to SEE the conversation, which includes visuals of the books we reference, check out StudioJJK.com/OriginStories. I recorded this talk via Switcher Studio. Switcher Studio is a simple and powerful IOS app that makes your live video feeds look like a professionally produced piece. Your iPad becomes like the production control room as you switch between your iPhone camera (which acts as a webcam), your remote guests, and any pre-recorded video or visuals you want to bring on screen. I would like to thank Switcher Studio for sponsoring this podcast. And as a thank you to you for listening, you may use code “StudioJJK” at switcherstudio.com to receive a free month of the service!

In this episode, we are going to get to know how Ngozi Ukazu became Ngozi Ukazu.In 2013, Ngozi created called Check, Please! The webcomic follows vlogger and figure-skater turned ice-hockey player Eric "Bitty" Bittle as he enters college.Bitty deals with hockey culture, toxic masculinity, as well as his identity as a gay man. Oh, he also bakes delicious pies.In 2018, First Second brought Ngozi's Check, Please! To print and the book became a massive success!Please note that this interview was recorded some months ago BEFORE I knew just what I should be doing with my microphones. I considered re-recording the interview but there is just something magical about learning of a friend's history in the moment.  Let's get to know Ngozi Ukazu!Origin Stories is sponsored in part by High Five Books, a beautiful and incredible indie bookshop here in Florence, Massachusetts. Check out StudioJJK.com/OriginStories for links to buy Maia's books from this fabulous indie. They even have a limited supply of autographed copies. And while you are over on the High Five website, check out their curated lists of book recommendations. Truly High Five Worthy. Okay, on to my chat with …If you are enjoying my chat with Ngozi and want to SEE the conversation, which includes visuals of the books we reference, check out StudioJJK.com/OriginStories. I recorded this talk via Switcher Studio. Switcher Studio is a simple and powerful IOS app that makes your live video feeds look like a professional produced piece. Your iPad becomes like the production control room as you switch between your iPhone camera (which acts as a webcam), your remote guests, and any pre-recorded video or visuals you want to bring on screen. I would like to thank Switcher Studio for sponsoring this podcast. And as a thank you to you for listening, you may use code “StudioJJK” at switcherstudio.com to receive a free month of the service!

Raina Telgemeier, a graphic novelist that is so famous, she can go by just her first name—Raina. Raina's work helped revolutionize graphic novels as we know them, cementing their place in schools and bookshops. And she did that by just being herself and following her passions, as you will soon learn directly from Raina herself. I can't imagine the graphic novel landscape without her. And as one of my oldest pals in this book industry, I can't imagine not having her as somebody to lean on as we have all navigated these careers we have in comics. I am proud to present to you—Raina Telgemeier's Origin Story!Origin Stories is sponsored in part by High Five Books, a beautiful and incredible indie bookshop here in Florence, Massachusetts. Check out StudioJJK.com/OriginStories for links to buy Raina's books from this fabulous indie. And while you are over on the High Five website, check out their curated lists of book recommendations.

In this episode, we are going to get to know how Maia Kobabe became Maia Kobabe.In 2019, Maia Kobabe made eir debut as a traditionally published cartoonist with their graphic memoir, GENDER QUEER. GENDER QUEER is about Maia's coming to eir understanding—and coming out—as a non-binary person. It's a frank and mature book, whose intended audience is for older teens and adults. This book is a look at the intensely cathartic journey Maia took, and as you'll hear from Maia in a moment, was written, in part, to help eir family understand what it means to be non-binary and asexual.This interview was recorded well before GENDER QUEER became the target of book banning initiatives across the country. As is often the case with these situations, passages have been taken out of context and disseminated as whole, creating hysteria around the book. What I have often been seeing int the news is a decrying of what is and isn't appropriate for children. Of course, GENDER QUEER wasn't written for children, but for young adults. From what I have been seeing, the terms “children” and “young adults” are often lumped together as one, which is a mischaracterization of where and how books deemed “problematic” are being shelved in libraries. In this podcast, I will be covering graphic novelists who produce work for all ages. I also want to make it clear that I am a firm believer in the First Amendment, and a student's right to have access to age-appropriate literature. While my graphic memoir, HEY, KIDDO, has nowhere near faced the level of book canning as GENDER QUEER, I can speak from experience that is neither fun nor a badge of honor to have your book banned and decried as inappropriate. As the wise Dr. Rudine Sims Bishop presented to us—books can serve as both mirrors and windows to readers. Meaning, when a reader recognizes their experiences within the pages of a book, they can feel empowered. And when a reader experiences a book as a window, they can have a deeper understanding of a life that is unlike their own experiences, and develop empathy.Order Maia's book through HIGH FIVE BOOKS, a great, local indie bookshop! https://bookshop.org/books/gender-queer-a-memoir/9781549304002

Hi! I'm graphic novelist Jarrett J. Krosoczka and welcome to Origin Stories. In this podcast, I go on a deep dive into the upbringings and artistic developments of some of the very brightest and most talented graphic novelists working today. In this episode, we are going to get to know how Gene Luen Yang became Gene Luen Yang.Gene is a trailblazer. His book American Born Chinese was the very first graphic novel to become a finalist for the National Book Award finalist —an honor that he's has actually earned twice! Gene has also garnered a Printz medal, a few Harvey Awards, and about a gazillion Eisner awards. Gene also served as the National Ambassador for Young People's Literature and was a part of the 2016 class of the MacArthur Fellows Program, receiving what is commonly called the "Genius Grant.” I am proud to present to you—Gene Luen Yang's Origin Story. Order Gene's books through HIGH FIVE BOOKS, a great, local indie bookshop! https://bookshop.org/lists/gene-luen-yang-jjk-guest-author-illustrator

Every superhero has an origin story, as do the people who are responsible for making those comics. And comics, of course, are not just all about superheroes. I'm graphic novelist Jarrett J. Krosoczka, and in this podcast, I am going to go on a deep dive into the stories of my colleagues in comics. What were they like as kids? What were their hopes and dreams? And were those hopes and dreams supported by the adults in their lives? How did they get their big break? Basically, how did they come to be the incredible authors and artists we know them to be today? What is their Origin Story?