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"My whole body is shaking. I'm full-blown sobbing. I run out of the church, leaving my mom, son, and girlfriend flipping out because they know that I just saw something in church." ---------- Hi! Trapper Jack here. While recording episode 357, I had no idea how deeply it would affect listeners. One of them, my friend, Doug George, had to stop listening—it hit too close to home. Like Tom, Doug saw his deceased father… in church, bathed in light. In that moment, he felt it all—closure, forgiveness, love. Doug shares his journey of growing up with a unpredictable dad, caring for him during his final months with dementia, and finally experiencing healing in that holy encounter. Both Doug and Tom found peace in church—a reminder that healing flows from the heart of the Church, and through Jesus, we come to know not only our Heavenly Father… but our earthly ones too. ---------- Come with us to Medjugorje:  https://www.ctscentral.net/travel-tours/60th-anniversary-pilgrimage-to-medugorje  ---------- Share Your Story If you have a Touched by Heaven moment that you would like to share with Trapper, please leave us a note at https://touchedbyheaven.net/contact Our listeners look forward to hearing about life-changing encounters and miraculous stories every week. Stay Informed Trapper sends out a weekly email. If you're not receiving it, and would like to stay in touch to get the bonus stories and other interesting content that will further fortify your faith. Join our email family by subscribing on https://trapperjackspeaks.com  Become a Patron We pray that our listeners and followers benefit from our podcasts and programs and develop a deeper personal relationship with God. We thank you for your prayers and for supporting our efforts by helping to cover the costs. Become a Patron and getting lots of fun extras. Please go to https://patreon.com/bfl to check out the details. More About Trapper Jack Visit Our Website: https://TrapperJackSpeaks.com Patreon Donation Link: https://www.patreon.com/bfl Purchase our Products ·       Talk Downloads: https://www.patreon.com/bfl/shop ·       CD Sales: Send inquiries to:  info@blindguymedia.com Join us on Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/TouchedByHeaven.TrapperJack Follow us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/trapperjack/ Join us on X/Twitter: https://x.com/TrapperJack1  

In this insightful episode of the Real BOSSES series, Anne Ganguzza and Tom Dheere delve into the unpredictable landscape of social media and its implications for entrepreneurs. As platforms like Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok face increasing political and operational challenges and changes, The BOSSES discuss the importance of adapting business strategies to ensure continued success. They share actionable insights on how to diversify marketing efforts and build resilient communities, emphasizing the significance of maintaining control over one's audience through robust mailing lists and finding alternate platforms. 00:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Let's create your next demo together. As an award-winning demo producer, I'll work closely with you to craft a demo reel that showcases your unique talents and strengths. My personalized approach is going to ensure that your demo stands out from the crowd and gets you booked. Book a free 20-minute consult today and get started at anneganguzza.com.  00:28 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Hey, hey, everyone.  00:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Welcome to the VO Boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss podcast and the Real Boss series. I'm here with my good friend, Tom Dheere. Hey, Tom, how are you?  00:55 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I am good, how are you?  00:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm doing good, but I'll tell you what. Social media is kind of a mess lately, isn't it?  01:04 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Oh my God, yeah it, oh my God, yeah. Oh my God, to say the least, it has been insane the past couple of weeks.  01:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, TikTok shutting down people fleeing off platforms. It's been insane and I think something that, as business owners, we've used for years right to promote our businesses is now somewhat becoming unstable and unpredictable, and I think we should chat about this. What can we do to kind of counteract?  01:31 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) that that's a great question. Well, I will say that literally this morning on Facebook, I saw two friends of mine who run Facebook voiceover groups who basically posted the same exact post, which was we know a lot of you are leaving Facebook right now. It's gotten very politically charged, it's gotten very toxic. You've all mentioned that how your feeds are changing and it's just getting really, really weird. And they both did the same thing in that they said we will continue to be loving and supporting of all voice actors, regardless of your affiliation, regardless of what's going on in the outside world. And there was a chorus of support and concern at the same time.  02:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, I think the community that we feel that we've established on these platforms is, and now the platforms are unstable or toxic. And so now our community because we work independently and our community has been online for all these years and now, all of a sudden, it's just become a place where maybe not everybody wants to hang out anymore.  02:28 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yeah, there's four platforms which everybody seems to be sharing the most concern about Facebook, instagram, because those are both owned by the same company Meta Twitter, now known as X, which has been a point of concern for a couple of years now, since it was purchased. As X, which has been a point of concern for a couple of years now since it was purchased, and, like you just said, tiktok, because of the concerns that have been expressed and the affiliation that it has and the fact that it went down for less than 24 hours and then it was rescued.  02:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It was like a mass hysteria. Well, you know what else? It wasn't just TikTok, it was anything owned by TikTok, which I was aware, but I kind of forgot. I use CapCut, which is the video editing program, and I spent a considerable amount of time like learning it and all of a sudden my CapCut was gone and I'm like, oh no, I guess I need a new video app.  03:15 It was kind of good in a way, so that we all could step back and say, all right, let's not put the proverbial all our eggs in one basket, like we've always been saying about pay-to-plays. Right, you don't want to put all of your eggs in one basket with pay-to-plays. That can't be your only way to make income, and social media may not be the only way that we can have community. So let's talk, tom, about how we might be able to incorporate community and also incorporate. Let's say how are we going to market to our potential clients? What can we do to create a sense of community? And I mean my first idea that comes to mind is let's go back to old school, right? Let's create a mailing list, right? That's something that we own. We're not dependent upon a social media platform that we don't own. We own our own lists.  03:59 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yes, when it comes to that, both social media and curating lists of potential, current and past clients both fall in the bucket of self-marketing. Having a social media presence, creating a sense of community, trying to interact with clients potentially that's a form of indirect or passive marketing. And then curating lists of clients cold calls, cold emails, newsletters those are all forms of direct or active marketing strategies. So both of them have their merits. But to your point, if the four, at least the four social media platforms that we just talked about, are unstable on both a cultural view, political, socioeconomic, logistical and technological view, because one of them was taken down and then went back up and goodness knows how many millions of dollars was potentially lost by the TikTok users who monetize? Yeah, absolutely.  04:54 So, this is creating uncertainty in the market, so looking for more stable practices is a very good idea. So, if you have been able to cultivate any relationships with any potential or current or past clients through social media platforms and I'm not just talking about Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and TikTok, which are the four that seem to be the most worrisome or in flux right now- Well, they're the largest.  05:18 They are also, interestingly enough, the largest, and Facebook's been around since what? 2004? Tiktok's pretty new and Twitter's been around since around 2008,. 9, 10. And Instagram is a few years after that, so some of these have been around for quite some time.  05:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, let's not forget about our old friend YouTube, which right now doesn't appear to be affected so much.  05:37 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) YouTube seems to be relatively stable and actually YouTube has been growing quite steadily.  05:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Youtube is the number one streaming platform. I think that that can be an option for people who are looking for community or trying to establish a community. I mean, really, what do you need to establish a community? There's community number one, just community for ourselves, right, because I need my colleagues. I need to be able to communicate with my colleagues and just kind of like just say hey, how's it going, or what are you doing, or just that kind of like at the water cooler sort of thing. And then we also need the community of where can we put ourselves out there, where can we promote and market our materials, if the online community is now threatened?  06:17 I think, I mean, I know, for many years, you know, social media has always been quote unquote, free, right, always been free, and the Internet's been free. And now, all of a sudden, there's a potential to maybe it not being there or free, or we don't know really what's going to happen. So we need to come up with our plan B. I think it's always important that, as business owners, we have a plan B or we have an alternate plan, so that we're not throwing all our eggs in one basket, right? What can that be, tom?  06:45 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) All right, so I have many answers.  06:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I have many answers and ideas.  06:48 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Me too. Okay. So because there's a difference between fostering or being part of a community of fellow voice actors on a social media platform and looking to network with potential clients. Yes, despite all the weird that's been going on, linkedin is still the number one social media platform to be connecting with and developing relationships with clients.  07:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Except it's got spammy lately.  07:12 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) It's gotten very spammy and I've seen a lot more politics on my LinkedIn feed.  07:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, but still it's better.  07:19 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) It's better. It may be a short-term consequence, it may re-stabilize I'm not sure, but LinkedIn is the number one source for that Twitter was a pretty good source for that too.  07:29 Yes, because also everybody knows that LinkedIn is the professional social media platform, whereas Facebook is the social. It's literally called the social network. It's a social platform. You can be social on a professional platform and you can be professional on a social platform. But all of these different social media platforms were designed with a specific intent in mind. Instagram was all about photos, and now it turned into video as well to compete with everybody else, and then YouTube made shorts to compete with Instagram reels and they're all watered down and they can all do all of those things, but what the thrust of it is?  08:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Before I forget, I do want to like throw in another social media platform that can generate community on a more professional level and that would be Substack.  08:08 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yes, that's definitely one.  08:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's kind of like here. If you want to sign up and subscribe to my newsletter on a professional basis, there is Substack and I think that might be gaining popularity as well.  08:17 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Slack is another one that is gaining popularity. I have not ventured into Substack or Slack, but the one that I have been exploring lately when it comes to community is Discord.  08:29 Yep, absolutely what's interesting about Discord is what separates it from all of the other social media platforms is it doesn't have a feed. It doesn't have this torrential river of content that you can doom scroll through. For those of you who aren't familiar with Discord, discord has what are called servers. Think of them as like Facebook groups, except that they are generally invite only, though many of them have a public invite where they publicly promote a link or a QR code where you can scan and then you can potentially get admitted into that Discord server. There's usually a number of questions that you need to answer and a code of conduct that you need to adhere to before you'll be admitted into that individual server, and there are a ton of voiceover-related Discord servers. Many of the voiceover groups that you find on Facebook and all of the organizations that you're familiar with in voiceover groups that you find on Facebook and all of the organizations that you're familiar with in voiceover circles, have a Discord server, and within those servers are little threads or sub-servers.  09:33 Sub-threads yeah, Sub-threads where you can talk about whatever subject matter.  09:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Then it becomes like the old school Usenet. Oh my God, I'm showing my age. Do you know what I mean? Because people post about topics. It's like a forum yeah it becomes like a forum which Usenet? Do you know Usenet?  09:50 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Or am I even showing my age with you? Yeah, that was way back when I am showing my age with you.  09:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's Usenet back in the day, oh my goodness, yeah. Topic-based.  09:56 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Discord definitely has a. It's also got a bunch of emojis and badges and avatars and all these things that you can do with it.  10:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So I would say for communities. If you're looking for a community, feel that the Facebook groups if you don't want to be on Facebook anymore at all or you're disliking things about Facebook, in particular, discord for community, I think is a really good way to go. And I think people are just kind of waiting it out a little bit at this moment in time, because Facebook really was for many, many, many years. It was a great community gatherer, and so I think that people are just kind of sitting back, waiting and seeing, or they're fleeing. Some people are going over to Blue Sky, but then again people will say that that is also politically motivated, and so really it just becomes like where are you going to go and where are you going to find the groups? And I think it's one of these things, tom, that we have to just kind of wait and see a little bit. But I would say, professionally, if you want to create that community, start gathering your own mailing list of your current clients and get something going on your website that invites people to subscribe to your email list, and that way you will always have a way to professionally market to that list or communicate with that list. And then, when it comes to community, like colleague and that type of group, I have a wait and see.  11:12 I've kind of have my accounts on all different platforms and I'm just going to join them all and see where I feel that people are kind of migrating to. I know that for me, I've done a lot of work creating groups. I have a VOPs group that has thousands of members. I have business pages on Facebook that have thousands of members and followers. In reality, I have to look at that and say, well, it's possible that my groups have been disbanded and in a way, this is a time where I feel like I can kind of clean up in a way and so things that have grown, maybe possibly stagnant over time, where maybe people are members but maybe they're not engaged members. You know, maybe it's time to really just sit back, take a look, see where things go and really try to engage a quality community right, not necessarily a quantity, remember before it was all like, oh my God, well, I have 90,000 people on my Facebook group, but are they all engaged?  12:03 - Intro (Announcement) Yeah.  12:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So I think now's the time to really start building that community that know, like and trust you, and I feel like that's not just for sales, that's also for people that you interact with on a day-to-day basis. Like Tom, you and I like you're my know, like and trust and I would be like Tom, I want to be where you are so that we can continue our relationship right. So I feel like that's an important criteria for any group that I migrate to or that I create, and then it becomes a build process again.  12:30 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yeah, I agree. So, bosses, if you've been listening to what Anne's been saying, she's making two extremely important points. One is do not be dependent on any one social media platform for community or for establishing and maintaining relationships with clients. Those are two different things that you can do on all of these social media platforms and the advice of going through all of your social media platforms and keeping track of where all your potential, current and past clients are on all these social media platforms. Make sure that you have all their contact information and get them into your CRM, which is a VO boss conversation that we had very, very recently.  13:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That was the acronym. Party the acronym party. So check out that episode.  13:19 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Absolutely Use that CRM, because it's also a way to cultivate relationships with all of your clients. It's also a way to cultivate relationships with your fellow voice actors. There's nothing stopping you from sending out a newsletter to fellow voice actors, not to tell them about whatever voiceover you've done recently, which they may or may not be interested in, but just talk about concerns or topics of interest to you that may be of interest to them as well. You could also do that through blogging, because your blog posts can have different audiences. You can have blog posts where the audience is your voice seekers and you can have one where your audience is voice actors. To find another way to create a non-social media dependent community and culture.  14:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I think the vlog might be making a comeback. I mean, I think it was always a thing right. But I think a blog I mean I do a Teachable Moment every week and I do shorts every week those are videos that I put out to the community and that can also be part of my blog. There's a lot of those that are part of my blog as well, so people can subscribe to that blog and you can talk about whatever topic floats your boat, floats your passion, and I think that more of the social communities like TikTok and again, you know TikTok is up for now, but again, if you're using it to monetize or using it to try to really sell, just be careful that you're not putting all the eggs in one basket. And so I just say, if you've got good video content right, you can now maybe put that on multiple platforms, right, or the platforms that you feel are right to gain the audience that you want. So just know that your video it turns out to be stuff that you own.  14:51 Stuff that you create is stuff that you own. So if you create videos, put them in a place where you have control over them. Put them on your website, put them in a blog, put them on YouTube if you have a YouTube channel. But if YouTube were to blow up tomorrow, you've got your own server, you've got your own web server that you can put your videos on, and so creating that content that is distinctly something that is owned by you gives you more semblance of control in regards to promoting your services, promoting your voice, promoting your product out there and also fostering a sense of community, even though it may not be engaging, but you can have people like subscribe to your blog, create comments, have engaging comments back and forth.  15:29 And again, there's lots of different places. There's Zoom workspace, there's Slack. There's lots of places where you can have video meetups and create that community there as well, and that's something to think about is to have a Q&A or have a water cooler, like, basically, there's that Zoom water cooler, that's out there, and so how are you going to promote that community water cooler? Well, that can be through a list, a mailing list that you own, or you can continue to put posts out on social media, and again, it just don't depend on that social media to be your one and only way to communicate with your potential clients or your colleagues.  16:05 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) There's also, if you remember, clubhouse and how popular that was during COVID, that became a real great place where a great sense of community that may come back.  16:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) This is exactly why.  16:15 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I'm bringing it up, anne is that Clubhouse may be a place to go back to, because there's no social media feed. There's really not much of a space for flaming trolling spamming.  16:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Interesting thought there, because I've done a Thursday VIP room Voices in Podcasting room and we actually were thinking about going away from it, doing Zoom live streaming, zoom on Facebook, which is just another way of doing it. But you're right, clubhouse could be making a comeback.  16:42 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Well, video, and I'm sure the reason was you know as well as I do is that video has more of a potential for engagement on a human level and on an algorithmic level than pure audio or just photos or just text.  16:55 So yeah, it makes a lot of sense to be on Zoom, but, like for voice actors, sure On Clubhouse. That seems like a really natural fit. There's one other social media platform that I wanted to mention, and that's Reddit. I've had a Reddit account for a few years now, but I just recently decided to start getting in there and seeing what's going on, and it has its level of weirdness, like any other.  17:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Again like a Usenet. Sorry, I'm showing my age again. It's like it's a forum.  17:24 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) It's got a forum Usenet kind of feel to it but like any subject matter, personal or professional, that you can think of is there and there's a group of dedicated and a lot of them very social and often supportive people that are talking about any given subject.  17:42 So I've been spending a lot of time on there and, just as a quick side note, just a couple of interesting things that have happened on. There is one there was a high school student who was required to interview a voice actor for a paper that they had to write. So I volunteered and they sent me the questions, answered the questions and they got an A.  18:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that you helped someone get an A Tom.  18:02 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) That's great, yeah Now is that going to help my voiceover career? No, no, but that's a good thing, but it's being a part of the community. The other quick example is and I can't say much is that a journalist went on a subreddit who needed to interview certain kind of people to write an article about a particular subject, and I was right for it. So I messaged them and, as a result and DA much.  18:23 And as a result, we had it was a Zoom or a Google Meet meeting for about a half hour, asked me a bunch of questions and in the past week or so they followed up with a bunch of follow-up questions. They wanted to flesh out parts of the conversation and confirm some details and stuff like that, and I think the article comes out next week, so I'll be happy to talk about it then and promote it, because it's a very very, let's just say.  18:50 it's a topic that's extremely relevant to the voiceover community and has been for a couple of years and will continue to be for the foreseeable future. But I wouldn't have gotten that without being on a social media platform and availing myself to what could just come my way, and it's going to turn into a nationally published article from a reputable news organization.  19:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Excellent. Now the other thing is yes, we're talking about the social media chaos and what we can do about it. Now the other thing, too, is, if you're finding that social media has become to the point where, if you're doom scrolling and it is doom scrolling and it is becoming mentally difficult right to read things on it, then I would say, for your own mental health, step back, take a break. It's not a critical part of you know. You have your circle of friends. I have, like Tom, I can get in touch with you in lots of other ways other than social media if I have to. So, really, guys, when it comes to your health and the health of your business, if you need to step back absolutely. It's not the be all end all.  19:49 Social media is not the be all end all to your business. It is a method that we have used for many years to promote ourselves. And I remember gosh, back in the day when social media was just becoming popular and there was Instagram and Facebook, and then it was like, oh my God, we can actually like, advertise our businesses on here. And that wasn't so long ago, or maybe it just seems like time has flown by, but I remember back in 2004 or five or six, and doing like a class on, like social media and how to advertise your business. And so 20 years has gone by, it's evolved, it's turned into a very different animal, and so I think, think again, very similar to how technologies evolve and things happen. We need to evolve with the time. So if you need to step back, absolutely for your health, absolutely step back.  20:38 I honestly don't think that it's going to be the destruction of your business unless you have monetized on a platform that is closing down or is one of those platforms that is now you, you know, in chaos, and so really try to diversify.  20:50 Think about how you can keep in contact with your current clients, how you can reach out to other clients, and again, I'm going to just say the good old school, like create a list for yourself. There's not one website software out there that doesn't have a way where you can invite people to become part of your list and you just have a checkbox that says I agree to allow you to send emails and people give you permission, and that becomes, I think, one of the best tools that you have, right for, let's say, maybe a professional way of marketing yourself and also a way of becoming closer to your community of professionals so that your business can stay afloat and with colleagues right. Gather those colleagues close to you. Already now there's multiple. I mean, we all do have phones, we all do have homes, we might live near each other, we all have ways to text and stay in communities together and, I think, don't rely on anyone. Get yourself prepared to not depend on any one method of acquiring clients or communicating with your colleagues at large.  21:58 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) That makes so much sense. I'll leave everybody with one thing Think about why you're on social media. Because it just kind of showed up and everybody just started using it. And nobody took a class or read a manual, they just started messing around on there. So if you're on social media for community and the communities are failing you in one social media platform, go to a different one. If you're going there to look for clients and develop relationships with them, if the social media platforms that you've been on aren't conducive for that they never were or they aren't anymore go to a different social media platform. If you are on social media for purely non-voiceover reasons you're just there to be entertained, amused or inspired or educated, and those aren't working anymore go to different ones. If you're doing it, you just find yourself going like this on your phone and none of those motivations are there. That means the really awful psychology, algorithmic things have got their clutches in you. Yeah, get off. Read a book, take a walk, go have coffee with a friend.  22:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I love that. That's a great way to end that, tom. Thank you so much. Yeah, bosses, be safe and be healthy with social media. All right, great conversation, tom. I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have a great week and connect up with us in multiple ways. Tom and I are available and we have email addresses. You can even email us and you can, for sure, just keep listening to our podcast. So you guys have an amazing week and we will see you next week. Bye.  23:31 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

We're halfway through the show now and the fun continues! Jason Mikell joins us, there is a TB12 lookalike contest, and we have talk back leftovers! Listen to Billy & Lisa Weekdays From 6-10AM on Kiss 108 on the iHeartRadio app!

Tom Brady says what Bob and Dusty have been saying for months now, we talk about the Chargers and their less than great history then are joined for the first time in too long by Jay Binkley to talk college football.

Tom Brady says what this show has been trying to tell everyone for months now! Just win the game! By 1 or 100 it doesn't matter.

Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is Paul Marden.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcast.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this podcast.Competition ends on 11th December 2024. The winner will be contacted via Twitter. Our guests:https://www.wethecurious.org/ Chris Dunford, Sustainability and Science Director at We The Curious As Sustainability and Science Director, Chris Dunford has been responsible for Sustainable Futures at We The Curious since 2011. During that time, he has introduced a sector-leading programme of environmental best practice, innovative technologies, and organisational change. In 2019, We The Curious became the first science centre in the world to declare a climate emergency and pledged to meet ambitious decarbonisation targets in this decade, implemented alongside climate change adaptation.Beyond We The Curious, Chris has held positions as Head of Environmental Sustainability at UKRI, Elected Director of the Bristol Green Capital Partnership, Mentor of Arizona State University's ‘Sustainability in Science Museums' Global Fellowship, and Chair of the ASDC Decarbonisation Group. Chris' background is in science communication and stand-up comedy. https://w5online.co.uk/Victoria Denoon is the Head of Visitor Experience at W5 Science and Discovery Centre.Victoria joined W5 Science and Discovery Centre in March 2020 and has responsibility for all aspects of W5's operations. She is also currently an ASDC Trustee. Prior to joining the team at W5, she worked in Higher Education in the United States for 15 years with a particular interest in advancing the careers of women in STEM fields. http://www.aberdeensciencecentre.org/Bryan Snelling is the CEO of Aberdeen Science Centre. He's been in this position for five years having started in November 2019. Bryan has worked in the visitor attraction sector for 11 years having previously enjoyed 6 years as CEO at The Gordon Highlanders Museum in Aberdeen. Bryan has worked in many sectors during his career including education having worked across the UK in Portsmouth and London before moving to Aberdeen. Bryan is originally from South Wales and in his spare time he enjoys playing the guitar, playing cricket and reading. https://www.sciencecentres.org.uk/Shaaron Leverment is the Chief Executive at The Association for Science and Discovery Centres.Shaaron is the CEO of ASDC and has over 20 years' experience working in science engagement and education. She stands for the value of science centres and museums for social good, as community assets that are accessible and relevant for a more diverse public.Shaaron joined ASDC in 2016 as the Deputy CEO. She is also the co-founding director of 'Explorer Dome' that engages over 70,000 children and adults every year. She leads on a number of national and international programmes and collaborations that aim to improve the relevance and accessibility of STEM for a more diverse public. As a past president of the British Association of Planetaria, she is also currently the EDI co-chair of the International Planetarium Society. Shaaron is mum to two boys, and the owner of a large hairy Golden Retriever.She is part of varied networks, working with schools, universities, science centres, museums and volunteer groups, as well as nation-wide professional associations and Government agencies. She has created and directed national and international (EU) science engagement programmes, including leading the Horizon 2020 Hypatia programme in the UK to support greater gender inclusion in informal science education, and is the driving force behind Our Space Our Future, supporting participative practice in space science outreach.Through work with ASDC, Ecsite and other international partnerships, Shaaron is known for her work to support greater equity and inclusion within our STEM education and engagement organisations, with the ambition of embedding more equitable practice for transformative organisation-wide change. Transcription:  Paul Marden: Welcome to Skip the Queue. A podcast for people working in and working with visitor attractions. I'm your host, Paul Marden. Now, today's episode is a special one. A few days ago I was at the Association for Science and Discovery Centre's annual conference recording in front of a live studio audience. Joined by a panel of the great and good from the Science and Discovery Centre community, Victoria Denoon, Head of Visitor Experience at W5 Science and Discovery Centre. Bryan Snelling, the CEO of Aberdeen Science Centre. Chris Dunford at ASDC Sustainability Group Chair and Sustainability Director at We the Curious. And Shaaron Leverment, the CEO of ASDC. Now, I have to say, this was a bit of a proof of concept for us and we had a few technical gremlins, but whilst the sound quality isn't brilliant, the conversations absolutely were. Paul Marden: So without further ado, let's go over to that recording I took a couple of days ago. Why don't we start with our icebreaker questions? So this is a tradition for the podcast and nobody has been prepared for this. So, Victoria, you'll like this one. It's a really easy one. Bauble or custard cream? Victoria Denoon: You said it was going to be easy. Paul Marden: Oh, no, I could give you my answer straight away. It's a firmly held belief for me. Of course, it's the only answer to that question. Bryan, you have to live in a sitcom for the rest of your life. Which one? And why? Bryan Snelling: Oh God, can I have the ball? But do you know what? The only one that sprung to mind was Only Fools and Horses. I think, you know, a bit of dodgy dealing here and there. Can't go wrong with that, I think. Yeah, Wheeler dealing, you know what I mean? Paul Marden: One day Wanda's There'll be millionaires. Chris, play 10 instruments or speak 10 languages. Chris Dunford: Oh, horrible. I'm going to go for 10 instruments because I feel as if Google can do the rest. But 10 instruments? I can finally record my own albums. Paul Marden: And Shaaron, last but not least, control time like Hermione or Fly Like Harry. Shaaron Leverment: Oh, God, fly Like Harry, Paul Marden: Really? Shaaron Leverment: Yeah, yeah, 100%. Paul Marden: You don't need a time turner to be in every session. That wasn't the latest question at all. Okay, let's get cracking then with the main interview. Shaaron, first question is for you. This year and next sees the 25th anniversary of the millennium funded science centers which saw a huge amount of investments into science communic engagement across the country. What did that do to shape science in the last quarter of the century? And where do you think it will take us next. Shaaron Leverment: Great question. Paul Marden: Thank you. Shaaron Leverment: Like 25 years ago, as I mentioned in my talk, even no one really knew what science communication was. You know, now obviously there's masters in it, there's people who are doing PhDs in it and I think it's actually becoming a very important part of policy and recognised as strategically important in terms of the way in which nation engages with science. And I do believe that's because we have these amazing places across the U.K. now. Let's be honest, like a lot of them existed beforehand. There was at least 6, including Satrasphere, which is now Aberdeen Science Centre, which existed before the Millennium centers. And then suddenly all of these centers were. But now we've got 60, nearly 70 across the entire places. The Lost Shore is just open, which is all about surf and science. Shaaron Leverment: I think science, referring to one of our keynotes, is really becoming part of culture. And then we're no longer looking at sort of museums and centres as like cathedrals of science. We're looking at them as real kind of cultural and community assets. So that's where I think. I think that's where the trajectory is going for the next 25 years. I'll just wrap that into the end of that. Paul Marden: This is a follow up for that and really anyone can join in on this one. Thinking more about where we go in the next 25 years, let's talk about funding streams because we had a big lump of money back just before the millennium projects get them kicked off and we're unlikely to see that level of lottery funding again. So how can centres, after all, they are visitor attractions and charities in many cases. How do they diversify their income streams? Victoria Denoon: I think there's two things about that and one's really important from the ASDC perspective because there's what we can do individually, but there's also what we can do collectively as a network. So you know, we are looking at that particularly from the Millennium Science Centre perspective. Victoria Denoon: And obviously that's a bigger voice if we do that together. So that's really important to have those conversations. At W5 we do that by increasing what we do for corporate hire. We do a W5 late program, which is an 18 plus evenings for adults to come down. And because we're going to be 25 years old next year, there's that nostalgia that really helps sell that. So we're looking at key events to drive revenue across the year to really get more people in our door who wouldn't come to us otherwise. Bryan Snelling: Yeah, I think it's obviously very important to diversify our income. But what we're talking about here, in terms of the money we got in 2019, you're only really going to get that sort of money again from very large institutions or government. And I think whether you're trying to persuade an individual to come and visit your science centre or local, national, devolved governments to give you money, it's all about the message that you're sending. It's about the science centres are really important part, and we were talking about it earlier on, the culture of what we're doing here. So whether you're just one individual or a multinational that has big bucks, you've really got to try and make them understand that. Chris Dunford: I think it's. Yeah, I think it's almost as well as diversifying to new funders, it's also diversifying what the existing funders will be happy to fund, because I think the funders understandably want the shiny new exhibition, the lovely new outreach in the brand advance, the school workshop photo opportunity. And those are all good things. And we couldn't do those things without the funders. But they'll need to. As these buildings getting older, they need to recognize at some point that those things can take place in the building where the roof leaks and it closes in the summer because the heat wave and the cooling system can't keep up. So I think if you're saying to the funders, yes, you can support this workshop, but we will need some contribution towards the rooms that the workshop take place in. Chris Dunford: So I think it'd be helpful to understand that. And to do that, we just need to make the case better to our value. So it's not just this extra news thing, but day to day supporting us to literally keep the lights on and keep the rain out of the roof. Bryan Snelling: Can I just add, I think there's also an important thing here about mission drift. We should be true to our own mission. We should know where we're going, our direction, and not have as much as possible. Because I understand it's a balance. Not have as much as possible. The funder direct what we do. It should be the other way around, or at least. And one of the big words of this conference that I've heard is collaboration. And we shouldn't just be doing it all the money, we should be actually understanding this is what we should be doing and this is how we're going. You should be coming on board with us. Paul Marden: You risk the tail wagging the dog, don't you? If all you do is chase the sources of funding. And you do that in a haphazard way. It's got to follow, as you say, it's got to follow the mission and the core values of the centre. Victoria Denoon: And it is a relationship, you know, it's like philanthropy and, you know, universities doing their work with donors. I mean, you really do have to have mutual respect and understanding and be looking for sponsors or funders or partners who have the same mission and values that you do. That conversation becomes a lot easier. Paul Marden: Absolutely. Shaaron, any thoughts? Shaaron Leverment: I think I agree with what they're saying. It's really well put. Paul Marden: This is an audience question and this is from Kate Allen from Purple Stars. And she asked me, is the A in steam in cooperate and why it's not a binary question. Chris Dunford: Right. Bryan Snelling: Look it up. Victoria Denoon: Yes. Bryan Snelling: Did you see the inflection in that? Paul Marden: Absolutely. Bryan Snelling: I think it's a two way process. I think that the A is very important. And again, I'm gonna repeat myself, but I think it's been a big part of what the conference has been about and it's been about collaboration. Yes, it's important, but it's a two way process because it's not all about us incorporating the arts. It's also about the arts incorporating the st, the E and the M and the science elements. So I think it's a two way process at the moment. I feel this is just my own opinion that it's a little bit more give than take. Shaaron Leverment: I think there's an interesting, you know, there's an interesting conversation of like, do you need an artist for it to be art? What is art and what is science? You know, and actually, you know, so much of, you know, the engagements that we see involve huge creativity, kids making planets and things like that in science. I do think that we need to use all the tools to get across these massive ideas. And I don't actually even know what science is anyway, so I'm on the back. Shaaron Leverment: And I also noticed in Tom Crick, when he was looking at the curriculum, they separate mathematics and numeracy from science and tech, you know, and so in science, tech engineering is often considered the invisible E in stem. Maths is often considered the invisible M in STEM in science and discovery centres, you know, and so the arts as well. I fully believe that we need to be trans and multidisciplinary 100%. But you know, I think it includes, you know, the music and everything. I think includes absolutely everything. So maybe these acronyms, which is not, they're not useful at all. Paul Marden: I don't think it helps. One of the things that we talked about when we first. We were spinning ideas around this episode, weren't we? And you talked about the idea that you shocked me, that science matters to me and I care about it. And it's something that I enjoy doing with my family. And to consider that isn't for the government to consider. That's not really part of culture because they're funded quite separately. It offends my roles, I think. Shaaron Leverment: But also, you know, it's just another beautiful way of looking at the world. You might look up at a night sky, you know, like Mara or Kilda, like we're hearing by Este. And you might look at it with eyes where you're just wondering at the jewelry of creation or making pictures in the stars. Or you might also be wondering about, well, maybe there's a planet out there. Shaaron Leverment: And I think you can look with all eyes and you can. It's all in wonder. And the fact that they are segregated, it comes back to school science, I think. I think actually in the normal world, as human beings, we don't have to separate them, but it's just very hard, especially when these are crazy funding lines. Like Tom mentioned the difference. I did not know that festivals are considered part of culture, but science festivals aren't. It's madness. Chris Dunford: It also depends in a way what you're doing. So if you're putting the A into STEAM  because you say that as a society, as a cultural attraction, we want to involve ourselves, then obviously, yes, we don't want to. You know, it's inclusive because as Shaaron said, they can. They bring different things to the table. But if you're putting an A in there because you're saying that art is the same as the others, then they're no different. But that's good. It's good that art and science kind of behave in different ways. So. So they both start with an idea or a question. They can both be kind of curious or stimulated by something. But then whether we do night sky or whatever, the way that art might scrutinise the night sky would be different to the way that science will scrutinise. And that's fine. Chris Dunford: They can complement each other. It's not. You need to recognize the differences in those kind of, I don't know, the intellectual disciplines, so they can support each other rather than say, well, artists, science, design. It's not as simple as that. They're different, but that's okay. Victoria Denoon: I do think they play a part together in making things more accessible to people. So if you look at major technology companies, they focus just as much on the design and the look of some of their products as they do on the actual technology that goes into them. So there's a lovely added experience there with putting that together. I think it's very important, but for different reasons. Paul Marden: Absolutely. There's been a lot of talk at the conference about diversity and inclusivity. To a certain extent, inclusion is about understanding who your audience is and understanding what it is that they need. Paul Marden: So let's dig into that about your three science centres. What are the customer demographics, what does the audience look like and what areas of diversity and inclusion are important to them? Victoria Denoon: Well, I think that assumes we've actually asked our audiences, you know, what is important to them. And I don't, you know, I'd like to sort of throw that over to other representatives for science centres because we have done some of that, but we probably haven't done it enough to be able to actually answer that question. That's something we are really looking at because we have a lot of different information about the demographics, but not really what they want to see us do. So we're looking at different focus groups and how to involve more people in that to get a better picture of that for our particular science centre. Bryan Snelling: I think we were very lucky to receive a lot of well enough ISF funding plus local funding to completely overhaul our science centre four years ago. What happened four years ago, it was wonderful. But as Shaaron said, we're actually not a millennium sites and we've been going for 36 years. I think tech request, slightly longer than us, Shaaron Leverment: 38.Bryan Snelling: There we go. But not many longer than us. But over that time we've asked and we found out a lot of information about what our visitors wanted. And similar to what Victoria said, we don't necessarily ask enough. We recognise that's a bad thing. We need and we are putting in place and now to evaluate to get feedback more. But back then were very aware of sort of things that we needed to do. We needed to be wheelchair user friendly. Bryan Snelling: So everything is now accessible throughout the science centre. We're one of the lucky places that have a changing places facility which is incredibly good and it's gone down very well. We also have a sensory space which was retrofitted admittedly. But if you look at our feedback on the online, that's gone down fantastically well and it allows some of our neurosensitive visitors just to calm down, go there and just take a moment and then come back and I think the very fact that we're a science centre, it's very hands on, it's very stimulating. Bryan Snelling: So having that has been a real wonderful addition to what we've got. And I think we've also got to remember financial inclusion. So a lot of the sort of sponsorship that we look for is to work with in Scotland. It's called simd, the Scottish Index for Multiple Deprivation. Chris Dunford: I'm sure there's a similar thing in England, but I want to know what it is. Paul Marden: We'll talk about that in a minute. Bryan Snelling: But we a lot of again, it's not mission drift when you are also doing it. A lot of our funders want to give us money so we can support those maybe who don't have as much money as the rest of us. So all of these things we've taken into account and parts of what we do at the science centre. Chris Dunford: Yeah. I suppose the question ultimately is when we ask our visitors what does inclusion, diversity mean to them, we won't get the answer we need. And that's because if you have a certain demographic who are visiting and you ask them diversity, inclusion, then obviously they will speak from their own life experience. But actually the people need to ask the people who aren't visiting. So in that respect, I mean the things we draw upon, we work closely with things like local council, so we have access to their data of who's living in the city and who's facing areas of deprivation and that kind of thing. Chris Dunford: So you can kind of fairly accurately figure out who's around you in your community and who's around you in your community isn't mirroring who's coming through the door and straight away you know where your focus areas are and the reason they might not be visiting, it might be economic, but it could also because there's things that you do unintentionally. It makes it look like you're not for them. Paul Marden: Yes. Chris Dunford: So only by engaging with them, seeing you through their eyes, will you understand maybe why you've been doing a thing which wasn't encouraged when they through the door. I suppose the last thing to say on that is often it's very tempting to think the inclusion thing is going to be groups that can't afford to visit and therefore Chapel saying it may be then detracting from the purely commercial enterprise we need to do to keep the buildings open and running. Chris Dunford: And for some areas who cannot afford to visit, then yes, that's an important part of what you do. But there could be areas, community who aren't visiting. And they can afford to visit because for some reason you're not currently for them, you can become for them. And you've also opened up a whole other market as well. So whether you're looking at it because you want more visitors financially, or you're looking at it because you want to be able to reach everyone, you need to ask who's in the city, who isn't here currently visiting and can we find out why they're not visiting? And then we just work through those challenge at a time until you hopefully are truly reflecting those around you. Paul Marden: I was at a Museum and Heritage Show earlier this year. There was a really interesting talk about inclusivity and making places accessible. And one of the key facts was that people that need an accessible place to visit, if they don't know something is accessible because you haven't communicated it properly, they will assume you are not accessible. And so having the changing places toilet and the sensory room is amazing. But you also have to communicate that to people in order for them to come and feel like it is a place for them. And that's. You're right, it's not about the charitable end of the organisation. It can be just a commercial thing. When you tell that story simply and easily for people, all of a sudden you are not going to market. Shaaron Leverment: We're sort of encouraging people. We've got an accessibility conference coming up in May which will be hosted by Winchester. And hopefully between now and then we can really support people with some of these amazing visual stories. Because I think you're absolutely right that you do need to know if it's accessible. You need to know what facilities you need to have those opportunities to know that there's a quiet space and what to expect. And then someone, honestly, if they know what's there and what's not there, then that's enough. Paul Marden: I've talked about this example before podcast, but Skipton Town Hall is an amazing example. They've got a museum whose name escapes me, but they won last year's Kids in Museum's Family Friendly award. But they have an amazing page that talks about their accessibilities with photos and videos where you can see the entrance, every entrance to the building and where that entrance will lead you to. It shows you the changing places toilet. You know, they are making it super easy for you to be able to understand that. And it's on your page, but it's a page that's hugely valuable on their website. Victoria Denoon: I think just beyond what you can do on your own. Site for that. There are organisations you can work with that tell people the story about what attractions in their area are accessible. So making sure you know who those groups are and working with them to get your story out and how you can support that's really important. Paul Marden: I've got Tudor in front of me from Eureka and I know that's something that Eureka has done a lot of is communicating the accessibility of what they deeds the outside world. I'm going to take your Scottish index of multiple deprivation and take that back to the uk. I'm going to talk a little bit about Cambridge Science Centre because they've passed two weeks ago, they've just opened their new building and one of the things that they talked about on the podcast with me was that part of the motivation for locating it on Cambridge Science park was because it is cheap by jail with one of the areas of multiple deprivation within the city. Paul Marden: They run youth groups in that area and what they found was that even though these kids are in a youth group associated with the Science centre and they are right next door to the Science park, those kids don't feel that a career in Science in the UK's hotspot for tech is a place where they could end up. Paul Marden: They just don't feel like it is of them. So how do we help those kids and families in those areas feel like science centres are for them and a career in the future and in science and tech is an opportunity for them? Bryan Snelling: I think when were redesigning the Aberdeen Science Centre, as I said, the only thing that's still there because It's a Category 2 listed building is the outer walls. But what we looked at that time was we said, well, how can we make it relevant to the northeast of Scotland? So we have three zones in the Science Centre which relates to either the up and coming or very much mature economies up there. We have an energy zone, of course we do, but space, you know, Shetland is on our patch, big patch, so is Sutherland and those of you who know Scotland, very big patch. That sort of space is a big part of what's happening up in northeast Scotland, but also life sciences. So we made it relevant so that people on an everyday sort of and kids can sort of relate to things. Bryan Snelling: I think we're the only city and people will help me out here and bring me down to size if that's the case. We have hydrogen buses in Aberdeen. I think we're one of the only, let's go like that. One of the only cities that currently do that and they see these things travelling through the city centre every day. But you know, they want to know more about that. So it's about making it relevant, making it day to day obvious that this, you can work in this because actually it's there or it's that or it's yes. The other thing is about showing the other careers that you can link it, you can focusing on space, but there's more than just that. You somebody said, yes, you also need to have a chef in the Antarctica. Bryan Snelling: So show them the other careers actually link in with this sort of and just make it relevant. Chris Dunford: Yeah, and I think obviously if you've got sections of society where there's young people who feel that science isn't for them, I think the first thing to recognise obviously is that they are in their lives. They're obviously getting messages that are telling them that's the case in the way in which children from other backgrounds are getting messages telling them what science is for them. And you can see that through the lens of the science capital. You can't control all of those, but you can control how you interact with them. Now, obviously what Cambridge did is they were able to physically relocate. Most of us aren't in that position in terms of the whole building, although that reached us the ability to do that on a complete short term basis. Chris Dunford: But I think again it's recognising that inclusion work is so much more than just kind of saying, “Hey, we are free. Why don't you come along today and you can visit for free or whatever.” It's the diversity of your staff and that's across the organisation. Because if they visit and they see someone that looks like them and that tells them that it is for them in a way in which it's going to be very difficult to do with the people actually working there don't look like people they would recognise as being in that kind of group in that way. It's about the activities themselves. So again, the ideas of kind of co development. So if you develop activities, rather than guess what you think they would like, just find out what they would like and involve them in those activities. Chris Dunford: So inclusion is difficult and it takes a lot of time because you can't just kind of put a sign on the door and say work for you now. You need to change the organisation. So it is enabling them to visit and then to keep that relationship going. That's the other thing that's very difficult. But I think if you did one funded visit and they came once and that was it, that might not be Enough to make them go, “Oh, so I can't be a scientist.” You get some kind of relationship with them going on over time. So yeah, it's a long, drawn out process, which means you need to look very hard at yourself and be prepared and brave to make changes in your own organisation. Because unintentionally you are probably putting some of the barriers there yourselves. Shaaron Leverment: I just want to echo that it really is about building those relationships. We ran a program called Explorer Universe across eight centres. And you know, we were all about extra partnerships and being brave and making new engagement to people who would never have thought to come through your doors. And you know, it ended up being like a year long of partnership building and then those relationships and almost all the programs were outreach. Some of them ended up, you know, as a celebratory event coming through the science centre. But it was very much going to where the kids were going to their space, you know, physically and emotionally and mentally, whatever, and working in partnership. So if you don't have the staff that reflect that community, then you can work in partnership and create those moments. Shaaron Leverment: And then when they do come to the centre, be there at the front door to welcome them. You know, I know you and it's very much, you know, like an experience floor In North Wales. Were working in a playground, you know, and talking all about them jumping off the playground with like parachutes, talking about friction and stuff like that. And one of the best quotes from that was like, I didn't realise this was science. You're like turning what they are doing and saying that you are a techie, techie person, you are a sciencey person, you are an engineer. That's what it is. Shaaron Leverment: You know, it's not saying this is what science is, you know, it's changing the capital that they have already into science capital to know that they are already inherent, as Osley said, inherent sort of scientists anyway. Paul Marden: Yes. Shaaron Leverment: So, yeah.Victoria Denoon: I think science centres are in a really wonderful space here to be able to do that because, you know, we do build relationships with community groups and schools all the time. And research has shown that these young people, why they see themselves in relation to their peers, that will attract them more than anything else into potential careers in science. So having a space where people can come and, you know, we don't tell them, don't touch that, don't do that. Victoria Denoon: You know, they can really fully get hands on and engage in things and having that opportunity. We just opened two years ago, our Learning Innovation for Everyone Space. We offer free school programs there, particularly in partnership with Microsoft and do coding workshops and things like that and lots of other activities and you can also do OCN accredited programs with us there. So it's really about getting them together as a group of their peers and showing them what's possible in that space. Paul Marden: That's amazing. So I'm a dev by background. Telling the story of Computer Science is not something that you see in every science centre that you go to. The whole kind of the history of computing, it exists in places, there are pockets of it. But it's not something that I want to coding club as well. But how many of my kids could go to a local science centre and feel that what they're doing when they're coding the robot and building some Lego is related to something that they see when they're at the science centre and that there's a mental leap to go from this fun thing that we're doing with this robot to the career that is amazing that I could have in the future. It's really hard. Paul Marden: Talking of kids, I'm a trustee at Kids in Museum and we talk a lot about getting the voice of young people who visit attractions and young people, they're worthy, they're in their career and incorporating that into the decision making, strategic direction of museums and science centres. I think it's definitely really important when we talk about climate emergency to get that younger voice in so that trustees don't all look like me. Let's talk a little bit about the youth platform and how you incorporate the youth voice into what you guys do. Who wants to take that one first? I can spot who cracks first. Bryan Snelling: Okay. I'm not very good at this, am I? You are very good. No, but I'm actually quite proud of what we do at Aberdeen. We about a year and a bit ago introduced a STEM youth ball and we're very pleased with that. We actually work with a local festival so it's ourselves and Aberdeen Tech Fest that jointly I say support, but actually they support us. The youth board, it's made up of secondary school kids, young people and last year was a pilot year and it went very well. We're now looking at developing it further. But what they do is they look at what they want to do, they work out what they want to do within a board situation. Bryan Snelling: They've got all the usual bits, chair and the secretary, but they work out that they want to deliver this program and then they'll go away, work together on the delivery of that program. They'll also work out the marketing side of things. They'll also do all of that. But I also, and my counterpart with TechFest also bring our ideas and say what do you think about this? And they give us a very. Paul Marden: Take some of them and rubbish a few I guess.Bryan Snelling: That's what it's for. Paul Marden: Exactly. Bryan Snelling: I mean, let's get out of the way in a safe space before we then go ahead and spend money on this thing. Paul Marden: The most brutal focus could possibly bring together. Bryan Snelling: But we're very pleased with that. The other thing that we're currently looking at doing is working with local university, Robert Goldman University, especially the architecture school, to redevelop our outer area, the garden. It was the only area that wasn't developed when we did inside. And we undertook a number of brainstorming sessions with the youngsters and I mean your 5 to 12 year olds to get their input. And we did that a number of ways, remember drawing or talking or writing, whatever. And that was really interesting. We'd obviously, as the adults had done a similar thing but what they brought was a completely different point of view and it's wonderful. Paul Marden: Excellent. Victoria, you can't not look at teacher. It's only going to encourage me to. Victoria Denoon: No, I think you know, to what Bryan was saying there. We haven't started yet but we're looking at this idea of creating a Y suite, you know, which is our youth suite, which would be young people that will come in and kind of meet once a quarter to help us with some of those decisions. Bryan was talking about Inspiring Science Fund. We also did a huge renovation at W5 as a result of that and that involved a lot of consultation with young people, with teachers, et cetera. And we do a lot of youth led programs but we're looking at really how do we engage that in this more strategic direction going forward. Paul Marden: I think it's hugely valuable, isn't it? When you take it from a consultation point to something that is actually helping to drive the strategy of the organisation. It's transformational. Sharoon, do you have any thoughts about that? Shaaron Leverment: Yeah, I mean I sort of see it from a bird's eye view really, you know. But you know we have our Youth Voice Award because last year our volunteers award was won by. Part of our volunteers award was won by Winchester young group of environmental activists that were really doing great things down at Winchester Science Centre and influencing one seekers charity. And anyone who was at dinner last night, you might have seen the video from Zed King who has done so much work supporting Centre for Life and making massive changes there and not just there, like actually across the network. We are. So we've got this Youth Voice award as one of the only awards that we give because it is so important. We are all about. Not all about, but we are a lot about young people. Shaaron Leverment: So they need to have voice but it's very difficult to be sure how to do that and to make sure that we're not putting too much pressure. I mean here at this conference you can. There we've got some young people coming in showing their bio robots. We've got. Obviously we had the Esports award last night and our next keynote we've got two younger panel members to do a discussion about eco anxiety and how that feels for them to influence the way in which we think about our climate engagement from the voices of people who are experiencing it and experiencing this massive grief and anxiety about their own futures. So yeah, there's a lot of work going on obviously over in Armagh as well, you know, especially with autistic families and you know, I think it's. Shaaron Leverment: Yeah, it's a growing area and we're putting a lot of effort into encouraging like hearing these stories and different things and you know, I know we the curated. Well, with your authority sharing, I might just throw that over to you. I mean I think that's a great piece of work. Chris Dunford: Yeah. On the climate side especially. One thing we've done in the past is work with Bristol City Council, Youth Council, I think I might say most councils will have something like this because they then feed into the UK lean Parliament. I think that's really useful for two reasons. Firstly, because it gives them a space when you talk about climate issues. But secondly, it's helping them to understand the process of democracy, which young people's possibly more important now than ever. I think that's really key because I think what often happens, especially at events like cop, is that inside the room you've got the politicians and decision makers who are struggling with this really difficult challenge of how do we decarbonise and knowing there isn't an easy thing to fix it. Chris Dunford: It's going to be a lot of trailblazers, compromise, a lot of hard work outside where you've got the young people kind of screaming desperately do something, finally find the solution and then have these two different worlds. So I think if you could bring those together to bring the youth Voice into those conversations. What are the trade offs? What are the decisions? Because the consequence of decisions they inherit not us. But also it's useful for young people because it helps them understand that there isn't an easy solution and yes, there's going on strike and it's making the message clear, but there's getting into discussion of what are the trade offs, what are the compromises, and that's how a democracy works. I think that's really useful. Chris Dunford: But the other thing I'd say is if you're going to engage with young people on this and also be prepared for the fact that they're clear, they know what they want and they want the allies to take action. So if you say to them, great, there's time to change that, you're creating a youth board so you can learn about climate change, they'll say, yes, but what are you doing to reduce your carbon emissions? So we're doing this group and we're going to get your views on that. Thank you, that's fine. What are you doing to reduce your carbon emissions? So if you're going to enter into this space, they know what they want from us. They want to take action to create deep, radical and rapid decarbonisation. Chris Dunford: So be prepared for that question because they will ask it and it's the right to ask it. We need to do stuff as well as having board. At the same time, you've got to be taking the action to show that you're copying the agency, what they want. Shaaron Leverment: Have you seen the recent DCMS call as well? I mean, it's obviously strategically important at government as well. So all funders and DCMS in particular are making an election in this. So, yeah, leading the way. Paul Marden: A beautiful segue to my next question, which is what, Chris, this one's for you really is what are ASDC members doing ahead of national targets to reach net zero? Chris Dunford: Yeah. So it's probably worth just causing phone. So, in terms of the national target, for anyone who isn't aware, net zero for the UK is 2050. And net zero essentially means that your carbon emissions are down to zero or they're not zero, then you're offsetting what emissions you are creating. So the balance of the atmosphere is 2 0. And it's really hard. And the reason it's really hard, whether you're a government or an organisation, is you're following the greenhouse gas protocol, which means it's across all three scopes, which essentially means it's the stuff you expect. Chris Dunford: So it's the energy from the grid, it's your fuel and vehicles, it's burning gas in your home or places where, but it's also emissions from all the stuff that you buy and the investments from your bank and your pensions and it's the emissions from your business who travel to visit you. It's huge. It's very complex. So it's difficult. That's essentially what it means, the claim in terms of what sciences are doing. So it's a mixed back. There's plenty of science centers who still don't have a specific claim decarbonisation target, whether that be net zero or 2050 or sooner. So that's one issue I think we need to. Those who have done that piece of work have to work those who haven't to support them, enable them and encourage them to create a space where they can do. Chris Dunford: Because your Internet provider probably has a Net Zero pledge on their website, your supermarket certainly does. Your local council will, your university. So with science centres, it might seem strange that we're actually behind those players rather than leaving it. And of those that do have targets, there's probably about seven science centres in the network. This is student, big museum. So in terms of. In terms of the main science centres and then Tampa Gardens and museums, if you include them, there's probably about 11 organisations who have a kind of a decarbonisation net zero net neutral aimed before 2015. They're mostly around 2030. And again, that's really hard. And those organisations are now figuring out what that means and just how difficult that is. Chris Dunford: There is also even project who have boldly gone for a net positive to say they'll actually be removing more carbon than releasing by 2030. But it's really hard. And the reason it's hard for science centres is we're not Marks and Spencers. We can't just hire a stable team overnight and throw money at this problem. So we're renting some organisations who are tight on time and money who now to take on this huge challenge. That doesn't excuse us from the challenge. So there's no easy solution on the fact that we have to put resource into this. And I think that's why there aren't more Net Zero aims on websites for the centres at the moment. But I think we can get there. We need to recognise it's hard. Chris Dunford: And finally, if you are doing lots of engagement, as I said with schools, then again you need to be backing this up with some kind of Net zero. So it's a mixed bag of the network. There's probably about 10 or so that have specific net zero aims and they're mostly around 2030, 2040. But my prediction is in the coming years, those organisations are going to make some really hard choices and actually say how they're going to do that, because we know from experience it's really difficult. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't be doing it. It means you have to push even harder than you were before. Paul Marden: Thank you. Bryan Snelling: Can I add something? Paul Marden: Of course. Bryan Snelling: I think decarbonisation is an important message, full stop, especially in Aberdeen, for obvious reasons. I hope we feel that we have an important duty almost to the visitors to the northeast of Scotland and beyond. Because I think how can we talk the talk about decarbonisation if we don't walk the walk? So there's an internal thing, which notwithstanding how difficult it is, we're just starting down that route. We've had an energy audit done of ourselves. We're now in the process of working out what that roadmap is, or maybe it should be a cycle path road towards net zero, but we need to work that out. But on the other side, we're also tasked with telling people, this is what you should be doing. This is the energy transition. Bryan Snelling: This is how you renewable energy in the future. So how can you do both? How can you do one without the other one? I mean, and I think we just need to be aware of that. And I think as the future goes back to the very first question about what's happening in the future, that's all big part of what we need to be looking at.Paul Marden: Conference is all about shaping future science together. What's your take home message from the different talks that you've been to, or possibly because we've not finished the conference yet that you're looking forward to. What's the standout moment? I know. So I would say for me, the standout moment was last night's awards. I mean, if you weren't overtaken by Zed's video, if you weren't moved by Hamish talking about. And for me, what they both demonstrated is that volunteering and engagement is a conversation. It's a two way street, isn't it? Because they weren't just there as a resource doing things, they were getting something from the relationship and giving back to the sense, etc. At the same time. For me, that bit was the most powerful. Shaaron Leverment: Yeah. And I think actually, you know, there's a lot of emotion there, you know, and it's incredible to someone stand up and say science and you saved my life. Paul Marden: Yes. Shaaron Leverment: You know, I think it was just incredible and very brave. And I think that kind of bringing that emotion into science, it's really important and remembering the people, even people. I think there's been quite a few messages about, you know, the safe spaces that we provide and that interaction with people and that genuine understanding. I think I'm really excited about. We're no longer sort of let science speak for itself and we're not going. Shaaron Leverment: You know, I think people are socially connecting and using emotion a lot more because first we feel right, first we feel and that is what our inclusive outcomes are all about. That it's what makes a difference for someone who is disengaged and doesn't feel that science and technology could be for them to feeling that maybe there's a place they need to feel they belong. So I'm really excited about that aspect of it. I also agree with everything that the elders are about. Bryan Snelling: Really. Shaaron Leverment: Yeah. Chris Dunford: I think several things yesterday for me resonated with the thing which Stephen Breslin said at the very start, which is that we come to these conferences anxious and slightly overwhelmed by the challenges we're facing and leaves feeling energized and positive with at least some of the solutions. And I think that's. That's a similar pattern that I experienced with these conferences. And I think through that lens I've been listening to all the challenges yesterday. And it's just our job is hard and potentially getting harder and as it gets harder, it's more important to society than ever. And I think that's the main thing I'm taking away. Chris Dunford: And I don't just mean things like the inclusion work and the decarbonisation work which we've spoken about during this session, but even things like one of the sessions that really stuck me yesterday was where the Science museum were talking in the lightning talks about their new AI exhibition and the fact that when all the many centers open they could have exhibits that explained Google of motion by pendulums and spinning things. A physical thing. And now we're having to have conversations about AI where there is no physical thing you can hold in your hands. Chris Dunford: There's a historical artefact, it's a circuit board doesn't tell you anything about what circuit board really does in terms of how it impacts society and how are we going to do science communication, science engagement around these challenging issues like AI which are then mounted up with all these kind of social problems with them, which again, the laws of motion that we come with. So, so I suppose I'm going away with that is the fact that our creativity is going to be tested more than before and our ingenuity and our ability to collaborate beyond our initial partners. So, yeah, for me, weirdly, it's about the science communication side and things like AI are going to make that really challenging. And how are we going to do that? Any of the answers other than the fact that we know we're not doing it alone, we're doing it as a network. And that's obviously big talk. Victoria Denoon: Yeah, I think it's the same thing. That remark by Stephen really is something that stuck with me because I did come here as well, thinking about the challenges we're facing, not just as a Science and Discovery centre, but also politically at the moment and just how pessimistic you can be about things. And really being in this conference with all of these amazing people makes you feel more optimistic about things and I think that's just really powerful and it carries you through. So for me, that's. And I think some of the conversations that have been happening here, I feel like since last year we've made a huge jump in terms of where the impact of our network is going with other people. And, you know, Tom's talk this morning really brought that home a little bit as well. So I'm feeling very optimistic. Paul Marden: Thank you. We always end our interviews with a book recommendation, which can be personal or professional. So, Victoria, do you want to share yours with everyone? Victoria Denoon: Well, I think when were talking about this, it was like, what's your favourite book? And for me, my favourite book is actually Pride and Prejudice. It's a book I would read over and could read over and over again. Jane Austen's musings. Paul Marden: Excellent. Bryan. Bryan Snelling: You know, this is the most difficult question that you're going to be putting to us. I've read, you know, fiction most of my life. I mean, you can't. I've always got a book, always looking at a book. So I don't actually have favourites. Why is it favourites? What I can say is my most recent book that I've read was the Thursday we're at the Club by Rich Lawson, which is quite nice. The most profound one was actually 1984. I read that when I was about 18 and I thought, wow. And that was really quite interesting. Followed swiftly by Animal Farm, of course. Paul Marden: So that's three recommendations bankrupt me over. Chris. Chris Dunford: So I've gone for War of the Worlds by H.G. Wells. I'm a big fan of, like, old sci fi books. It's different to modern sci fi. Sci fi books like Jules Byrne and H.G. Wells will just ramble on pages about scientific theories at the time. Things they read in nature. So it's genuinely kind of science fiction. But War of the Royals because it's just. It scares me every time I read it. Like it still scares me. Absolutely. And I quite enjoy that. And I don't know why. And there's something about the complete, you know, civilisation. Actually some shouldn't put on this thread too hard, but there's something fascinating about that. Kind of, as he describes it, the liquefaction of society is everything kind of falls apart and every time I pick it up, I'm terrified and I pick it up again, I'm still terrible. Paul Marden: Shaaron, lastly, yours. Shaaron Leverment: I had forgotten this is a question. Paul Marden: Chris had three books, so you can choose. Shaaron Leverment: I'll go for in my. In my head I go for I just off the cup. The Martian is great. When it's got a little bit tiresome with the whole potatoes, improve it. But it is a brilliant. Yeah, it's great. Paul Marden: We are done. If you enjoyed today's episode, please like and subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Thank you to my guests Victoria, Bryan, Chris and Shaaron, and my amazing ASDC Live studio audience. Paul Marden: Thanks for listening to Skip the Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review. It really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned. Skip The Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions from this episode and more over on our website, SkiptheQueue.fm. The 2024 Visitor Attraction Website Survey is now LIVE! Dive into groundbreaking benchmarks for the industryGain a better understanding of how to achieve the highest conversion ratesExplore the "why" behind visitor attraction site performanceLearn the impact of website optimisation and visitor engagement on conversion ratesUncover key steps to enhance user experience for greater conversionsDownload the 2024 Rubber Cheese Visitor Attraction Website Survey Report

Being accountable and responsible can often turn a bad situation into a positive outcome. In this week's episode, Merrill illustrates this idea by sharing a letter he received from someone named Tom.

We discuss Aaron Rodgers' comments about Haason Reddick and several reporters taking shots at the Jets' team culture and Deion Sanders' comments saying you can compare Shohei Ohtani to Tom Brady and Michael Jordan. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/world-wide-sports-radio-n/support

Hour 4: John Dickinson & Dieter Kurtenbach react to Brock Purdy's comments about dominating games like Tom Brady, talk to Tim Flannery, & close the show.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hour 4: John Dickinson & Dieter Kurtenbach react to Brock Purdy's comments about dominating games like Tom Brady, talk to Tim Flannery, & close the show.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Jeremy and Joe listen through a clip of Tom Brady on FS1 and worry that they are starting to like him. 

In this one, Eddie and Jerry talk X-Men '97 and how much we wanna get with Storm and so much more, but really, it's about how much we want to get with Storm... enjoy!

Alex Dicken and Brian Dick address takes and answer questions from supporters as Birmingham City battle relegation again. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

First Lady Jill Biden outright lied, saying President Biden accomplishes more in an hour than most people do in a day. Mark interviews Economist Steve Moore: Steve and Mark talked about the 95 billion dollars' worth of weapons for the wars in Ukraine and Israel. They also talked about rich people paying too much in taxes.

Support the show: http://www.newcountry963.com/hawkeyeinthemorningSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Lester Holt shared a story on the NBC Nightly News a few weeks ago that had me thinking about Christmas and what I knew we'd be up to tonight: celebrating that Jesus was born, in the flesh, so that the world could see and feel and experience the power of God in a way they hadn't before. Check it out… For my money, this artist – Tomás Bustos – does for people who can't see the beauty of visual artwork, something like what God did at Christmas – and what God does, still – for anyone looking for the Divine in the world and in their lives. They bend the rules – God and Tomás. They do the unexpected. They go out of their way to let their work be seen by those who have a hard time doing that. They bring beauty and love to life – to be “seen” in new ways that matter for whoever's looking, and sometimes for those who thought they'd never see it.The gift of Christmas … what theologians call the Incarnation … the revelation of God in the person of Jesus from Nazareth … is about God re-imagining everything we think we know – or ever thought to look for – in our quest for understanding what makes God, God; and why that changes everything for us and for the world.What I mean is, until Jesus showed up, God was off-limits, relatively speaking. God was around, and present, and active in the world – and always had been – don't get me wrong. But in Jesus, God came close in a new way.As Scripture tells it, before Jesus, in the story of creation, God was like a spirit of some sort that moved over the face of the waters. In Scripture, before Jesus, in the Garden of Eden, God was like the sound of the evening breeze. Before Jesus, God was a burning bush. Before Jesus, God was a pillar of clouds or a pillar of fire. Before Jesus, God was like the untouchable ark of the covenant. (The ark itself was, literally, not to be touched by the average bear.) Before Jesus, God was like the sound of sheer silence – whatever the heaven that means.In Jesus, though … at Christmas? … God got even more creative than all of that – pillars of clouds, burning bushes, and evening breezes, I mean. Like Tomás Bustos, the artist in that news story, God opened up a whole new world for the world as we know it. What once seemed unknowable and off-limits and untouchable had shown up precisely to be touched, to be felt, to be embraced, and understood differently altogether – in Jesus. (Think of the sick woman who touched the hem of Jesus' cloak – as though she were running her fingers along the embroidery of Mona Lisa's dress – and was healed because of it. Or the other who washed Jesus' feet with her tears and dried them with her hair – like maybe she was seeing the Mona Lisa smile with her fingertips for the first time ever. Or that disciple whom Jesus loved so much he reclined against him at the Last Supper, like maybe he was resting under Van Gogh's “Starry Night” sky in a way he never could have appreciated before.)In Jesus, the beauty and peace and hope and presence of God was no longer out of reach. God wasn't to be kept in a frame on the wall, or behind a curtain in the holy of holies, or safe and secure from the trials and troubles of life as we know it.And, while that's good news – great news, really – it's nothing many of you haven't heard me say in one way or another before, especially on Christmas Eve, over the years. So, I thought I'd kick it up a notch and dig a little deeper and take all of this a bit further this time around.Because way back in the Hebrew scriptures, in the book of Genesis, there's a story about Hagar, a poor young girl, who was enslaved and forced to carry and to bear the child of her enslavers – Abram and Sarai – when they couldn't conceive a child of their own because, as the story goes, Sarai was believed to be barren. When Hagar became pregnant she fled, out of fear and contempt for her master and mistress. And she had a run-in with God somewhere in the middle of the desert. And God told her, “You have conceived and shall bear a son and you shall call him…” (Sound familiar?) “…and you shall call him Ishmael, for the Lord has given heed to your affliction.”And the cool thing about this story – and why it came to mind for me tonight – is that Hagar, this poor, lowly, enslaved young girl with about as much status, credibility, and value in her day as the desert sand beneath her feet, is known for being the first person in all of Scripture to have had the nerve to give God a name – something you just didn't do way back when. (You didn't come near... You didn't touch… And you didn't speak the name of the almighty.) And the name Hagar gave to God – the God who met her in her darkest hour of deepest need – was “el Roi.” And “el Roi,” according to smarter people than me, means “the God who sees me.”“The God who sees me.”So, just as I always imagine and celebrate and give thanks that Christmas is about God coming to live and move and breathe among us so that we might see God differently… in the flesh… for a change. Hagar – and Jesus – remind me that God always sees us differently, too. That God shows up even and especially in our darkest, most desperate hours some of the time, and sees in us something the rest of the world – and maybe even we, ourselves – don't see or refuse to look at.Like, where the world sees a worthless slave girl, God sees a bold, brave, beautiful force for and source of life.Where the world sees a Republican or a Democrat; or an “L” a “G” a “B” a “T” or a “Q”; where the world sees an Israeli or a Palestinian; a Russian or a Ukrainian; a Jew, a Muslim, or a Christian – Jesus sees a child of God. Where the world sees a sinner, God sees forgiveness.Where the world sees war, God sees the possibility for peace.Where the world sees despair, God sees hope.Where the world sees death, God sees new life.Where the world sees a grudge, God sees grace.And where we – and the world – look at ourselves and each other and see, too often, the worst thing(s) we've ever done, Jesus sees, instead, the beloved children we were created to be – and always are – in the eyes of our maker.And in seeing all of it, God, in Jesus, gives up his life so that we would know what love looks like, and so that we might live differently – on this side of heaven and the next – in response to that deep, abiding, everlasting gift.So Merry Christmas in the name of the God who came so that we might see LOVE in all of its fullness and in new ways, every day. And so that we might know that we are seen, each of us – in our joy and our sorrow, in our grief and our gladness – by the fullness of that LOVE, just the same… and just in time, perhaps… and just because we're worth it, always, in the eyes of our creator. Amen

Yep Part 2 BABYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!LET'S FREAKING GO!

Priscilla Presley's son shared with Marco Garibaldi shut down a rumor that she saved Tom Cruise's film career back in 2006, scoffing at the claims in a new interview.Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

In part 3 of the Jiu Jitsu is Series Josh McKinney(@thejoshmckinney) breaks down the similarities of Professional football and a BJJ round/match. learn to use the clock to your advantage and your opponent's demise. Get Your New ISAJJ gear --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/isuckatjiujitsushow/support

Adam Gold, the host of the Adam Gold Show, the Hurricanes' pregame show, the Stromwatch, and postgame show, the Aftermath, joined Tim Donnelly to make a side-by-side comparison of Carolina Panther owner David Tepper and Carolina Hurricanes owner Tom Dundon. They discussed why Tepper can't be more like Dundon regarding how they've set their respective teams up for success. Adam points out that the difference between the two franchises has been found in the coaching.  Also, Hurricanes.com reporter Walt Ruff joined Tim to discuss the Carolina Hurricanes opening night for the 2023-24 season. He shared what he's excited about for this year that is still uncertain and if there's a different feeling around the team regarding the Stanley Cup being the end goal this season. 

As E battles an illness, the boys discuss the back breaking weather delayed draw against LA Galaxy and lament the disintegration of the team's playoff hopes. Then they close out the pod with Last Business Day, a Best Ball update and the Week 35 picks.0:15 - Intro2:40 - Lineup reactions9:50 - LA Galaxy recap18:05 - Jhojan Valencia in form26:55 - Rigoni's best game in Austin?32:40 - Driussi injured again34:55 - Austin crumbles late39:00 - Playoff chances evaporating45:45 - Last Business Day56:50 - Best Ball update59:55 - Week 35 picksFollow the podcast on socialsTwitterInstagramYouTube

Rob welcomes film director Allan Arkush to discuss "Just Like Tom Thumb's Blues", from 1965's HIGHWAY 61 REVISITED. Have a question or comment? Contact: https://fmpods.com/podcasts/poddylan Follow us on Twitter: @Pod_Dylan POD DYLAN "Jukebox" T-Shirt now available: https://www.etsy.com/shop/RobKellyCreative Complete list of all songs covered so far: Pod Dylan Songs This podcast is part of the FM Podcast Network. Thanks for listening!

Fraudology is presented by Spec. Check out their no-code platform you can implement to start fighting fraud today!Karisse is again joined by her friend, and the Sr. Manager of Risk for Wish .com, Vineet Grewal. 3 weeks ago, Vineet talked about why she has made "approval rates" her North Star. This week, she's sharing some of her tips for creating a business case to engage & influence senior leadership for the resources needed to implement better solutions for more data and accuracy.While talking about the methods & steps she's used to effectively present to senior leadership, Vineet also uses an example of a specific fraud attack that she swears she will never forget. Taking us on a journey from the moment she first discovered refund claims fraud (aka: refund fraud) on the system, to being granted approval of the proposed changes she brilliantly presented to her executive team, and then to share the result of the implementation of . They wrap up the conversation with Vineet reminiscing about Saturday morning cartoons, and how one of them in particular makes the perfect metaphor for the life of a fraud-fighter!To connect directly with Vineet (No solicitations please!): https://www.linkedin.com/in/vineet-grewal-7395002b/Fraudology is hosted by Karisse Hendrick, a fraud fighter with decades of experience advising hundreds of the biggest ecommerce companies in the world on fraud, chargebacks, and other forms of abuse impacting a company's bottom line. Connect with her on LinkedIn She brings her experience, expertise, and extensive network of experts to this podcast semi weekly, on Tuesdays and Thursdays.

No Joel today! Get better soon betch! How'd ya deal with the heartbreak? A man's car gets written off... which was his lover! How do you keep yourself lookin' so goooood!! We spill Tom Cruise's beauty secret! The world record for the loudest burp has been made! Give us your skills! So you've had a bad day... probably not as bad as this woman! The new dating trend that is MASTERDATING! Aaaand we spin the Wednesday Wheel! Follow us @rickileetimjoel!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Tom loves learning new programming languages, always has. He even likes learning about the ones that he thinks are--in a word--crap!  Even though he has this obsession, he's always maintained that his favorite is Python.   Recently, Tom came across a brand new programming language called "Mojo"!  Like Tom, it's safe to say that we're all fans of Python, generally speaking. However, Python is not without it's faults.  Thats where Mojo comes in. The Mojo development team is present it to the world as kind of a "Python + +".  Simply put, it addresses Pythons bigges problem, which is speed and takes actions to make it fast... Ok, ok, faster. It also claims to make a number of additional improvements, as well. In this episode of The Hacks, Tom and Chunga everything they know so far about Mojo and they'll throw in a few other new programming languages for good measure.  Listen NOW! Learn more about Salt Project and join our community! Simplify your cloud infrastructure with Idem Project!

The comedians behind the Dudesy podcast were recently sent a cease and desist from Tom Brady's lawyers for using an AI generated likeness of his voice. What does this mean for the future? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

(0:00) Zolak & Bertrand begin the second hour by wrapping-up their conversation on Boston's lack of superstars right now. (13:24) We dive into some of the answers from our listeners about which 3 Boston stars they'd choose to keep around. (23:29) The crew goes back and forth on Phil Perry hearing Mike Gesiecki is going to catch a ton of balls from Mac Jones this season. (32:30) We react to Chris Gasper and Albert Breer saying the Patriots are still building like Tom Brady is here.

Chris and Rob debate why guys convicted cheaters like Tom Brady don't have their names soiled in the same way that guys like Lance Armstrong does and discuss whether or not Aaron Rodgers should be willing to link back up with Davante Adams. Plus, the guys go head-to-head in this week's Memphis Grizzlies-edition of Teichert's Tower of Trivia.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Craig ponders prayer and the different forms it can take

“A person with money is a person with experience, and the person with money usually gets experience.”- Gino On this special episode of 100 Year Real Estate Investor, Jake and Gino talk about how not to be like Tom and Gisele.  The co-founders sit together to talk about where did Tom and Gisele go wrong. They talk about how getting into FTX crypto made them lose on their brands. Tom and Gisele promoted FTX and convinced people to actually invest in it. Considering the fact, they did not understand what it is and misled people to invest in it. This made people lose a ton of money and tarnished their respective brand considerably. This speaks volumes about values here. Tom & Gisele promoted something they did not understand and in doing so let themselves and others down. In this episode we speak about being responsible towards not just your own brand but the people around you as well, who trust your brand. Key Moments: 00:00 Introduction: Tarnished brands ‘Tom' and ‘Gisele' 02:53 What we Do-Not promote on 100 Year Real Estate Investor Podcast 05:33 Only invest with partners who share similar values 08:37 What could Tom have done differently? 12:00 Clear communication rhythm is a game changer in business and personal relationships 14:16 Our values are subconscious, understanding them is important 18:00 Wrap-up   To know more about long-term personal financial engineering and options for building legacy wealth, connect with our Team at www.100year.com Bonus resources: DOWNLOAD our Dual Asset Strategy ebook and learn how YOU can leverage cash value life insurance and become your own source of financing: https://100yearrei.com/ebook-download/ SCHEDULE A Call: https://100yearrei.com/callnow/  ^To talk to our Team about adding a Permanent Life Insurance Policy to your financial plan (and even the plan for your children), get in touch with our Team here^  About The 100 Year Real Estate Investor       The Whole Life Insurance Policies offered by the 100 Year Real Estate Investor are specially-designed. This means they work harder toward achieving your financial objectives, no matter what they may be. Check out this blog for 7 facts about our specially-designed strategies that may not be true about typical whole life policies: https://100yearrei.com/7-facts-about-...  The contents of this video are for informational and educational purposes only. They should not be considered investment, financial, legal or tax advice. Jake and Gino are not licensed in the insurance or securities industries and is not in the business of selling, soliciting or negotiating the sale of any insurance contract, security or other investment vehicle.

Tom Matzen shares how the mindset shift of learning from other people's mistakes and using strategic risk reversal finally brought the success he was seeking.

Be like Tom Brady Let's Connect... Website: https://gregtoddtv.com/ Free Mentorship: https://www.facebook.com/groups/mentorwithgreg/http://bit.ly/mentorwithgreg Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gregtoddpthttp://bit.ly/gregtoddinstagram Youtube: https://youtu.be/pZB0xEciJ-U

Andrew Hawkins and Ross Tucker join the show to continue our NFL talk including the trade deadline, top tier teams in the league, and to share stories from their time with Tom Brady in New England. Then, our Top 4 White Cornerbacks and Top 5 White Safeties of all-time. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We re-visit Bradygate as it appears things are escalating. We get into MLB Playoffs and NFL Week 6. The big swing from 49ers and Christian McCaffrey. I had to work through some shit concerning Alabama v. Tennessee. And a great Chocolate With Soul conversation. Apparently Glenn wants to put a ring on it. Plus, this episode was late and I was tipsy AF so...enjoy the fuckery. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/whodatrisesup/message

 Our reaction to if rap battles and celebrities engaging in social media negatively have been affecting the culture & system of social media fights and how we behave? When rappers like tom MacDonald & Mac lethal, and MGK (Machine Gun Kelly) & Eminem have a public social media fight, does it encourage normal people to question if we should air our grievances and dirty laundry out online? Not Gospel Studio: Podcast! – Unapologetic Christian Commentary Cliff Williams of 7eventh Time Down and friend Chandra discuss current topics. #novarockafeller #hangovergang #tommacdonald should we air our greviances online, should we air our dirty laundry online, affecting the culture, social media fights, tom macdonald the system, tom macdonald reaction, reaction to tom macdonald, fighting online, airing beef 

In this episode, we are going to get to know how tom Angleberger became Tom Angleberger!Tom made a name for himself with the ORIGAMI YODA books, which were first published in 2010. While Tom has been actively creating his own characters, he's also been entrusted with books on Rocket and Groot and Geronimo Stilton. But in the Krosoczka house? He will forever be iconic for his Inspector Flytrap books. Like everything Tom does, those books are laugh-out-loud funny and pure fun. Like Tom himself. One of my most prized possessions in my studio? An Origami Lunch Lady made by Mr. Origami Yoda himself.

We have a fun chat with Ali Hazelwood all about her new novel Love on the Brain, cackling while writing, the future of brain exploration, playing badminton poorly, and typing like Tom Hanks. Plus – Dave puts his foot in his mouth in front of his students. Again.    HOW TO SUPPORT THE SHOW! For … Continue reading Typing Like Tom Hanks With Ali Hazelwood

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Join Joe Shoes and Michael Gomez as they present their weekly buffet of pop culture goodness! This week, your double-main men are discussing: the best day of Joe's life (1:10), back to school and fall candy (2:35), Opie & Anthony (6:15), San Diego Comic Con toy reveals and entertainment news (10:38), DC League of Super-Pets (52:03), The Bear on Hulu (55:51), This is GWAR on Shudder (56:50), NOPE (58:32), The Bachelorette (1:01:05), The Boys Season 1 (1:03:19), Warriors of Virtue (1:06:10) & Big Finish: Top 'This Is SportsCenter' commercials (1:27:30). Follow on all the socials: Twitter: @CarJoeMeZ, @TheJoeShoes, @thegomez154 Instagram: @CarJoeMeZ, @TheJoeShoes, @thegomez154 YouTube: Joe Shoes Twitch: Mr. Joe Shoes, MeZ Movie Pro Wrestling Tees Store: Capt. Joe Shoes TikTok: @TheJoeShoes Blog Site: CarJoeMeZ.com

What is the most important factor in vineyard irrigation scheduling? Organization. Having defined company goals and someone in charge of holding the team accountable. Tom Shapland, Co-founder and CEO of Tule Technologies and Lucas Pope, Director of Operations at Coastal Vineyard Services share their top challenges and strategies to apply the right amount of water at the right time. Incorporating tools like soil moisture sensors, plant-based monitoring, weather data, and soil types helps farmers know how much water is reserved in the soil so they can irrigate efficiently without applying more than the soil can handle. References: 2022-07-15 Night Harvest Lighting & SWEEP Grants Tailgate (register) 55: Using Technology to Schedule Irrigation (podcast) 63: Evaluate and Maintain Your Irrigation System (podcast) 108: Using Satellite Data for Irrigation Scheduling Drip Irrigation Startup: Recommended Procedures How To Correct Pressure Chamber Readings for the Influence of Vapor Pressure Deficit (Tom Shapland) Irrigation Consumer Bill of Rights Irrigation Maintenance in English & Spanish (video) Irrigation Scheduling in Winegrape Vineyards (by Craig Macmillan and Kris Beal) SIP Certified Sustainable Ag Expo November 14-16, 2022 Tule Technologies Tule Technologies video library on irrigation topics Coastal Vineyard Services Get More Subscribe wherever you listen so you never miss an episode on the latest science and research with the Sustainable Winegrowing Podcast. Since 1994, Vineyard Team has been your resource for workshops and field demonstrations, research, and events dedicated to the stewardship of our natural resources. Learn more at www.vineyardteam.org. Transcript Craig Macmillan  0:00  Hi, I'm your host Craig Macmillan. And today our guests are Tom Shapland, who is the Co-Founder and CEO of Tule Technologies. And Lucas Pope, who is Director of Operations for Coastal Vineyard Services. Thanks, you guys for being here.   Tom Shapland  0:12  Great to be here. Thank you for having us.   Craig Macmillan  0:16  Today, we're going to talk about irrigation scheduling very important topic, obviously, which will become obvious if it's not already as we move through the interview here. I've had a lot of experience with this. And now I get the pleasure of hearing what other folks say rather than just listening to myself all the time. I've got a question for both of you, Tom, you can go first. Why is irrigation scheduling using a methadone other than just simply calendar approach so important?   Tom Shapland  0:39  We know irrigation scheduling is important, because every year the yield and quality from a vineyard changes. And we can ask ourself, what happened that the yield or quality is different this year in this very same piece of ground compared to last year. And there are a number of factors we can point to the weather is different every year, how you manage the canopy may be different every year, how you manage the fruit load. And finally, another thing that's important is how much water has been stored in the soil profile from winter rainfall and how you irrigate it. And we know that every year the vines get, a vineyard block gets a different amount of water from winter rainfall that sets up every year in a different way. And how we irrigate influences the water status of the plants throughout the year and in turn influences the yield and quality of the vineyard. So we can look at the yield and quality for each particular year. And we can ask ourselves, why is the yielding quality different this year compared to last year. And one of the main factors is how we irrigated. That if we just irrigate, assuming that everything's the same every year that the canopy size is the same, the amount of rainfall stored in the soil profile is the same, we're gonna get a different result. So if you're really trying to aim for a certain yield target, or a certain quality target, or a certain yield and quality target, you can't just leave it up to a calendar, you're not going to reach your production goal, you have to manage according to the water status of the plant, you have to manage irrigation according to the water status and plants. If you expect to reach some target in yielding quality, you can't manage by calendar to achieve your targets for yield and quality you have to manage based on the water status of the plants.   Craig Macmillan  2:21  So this would be similar conceptually to the idea of targeted fertilization, where I'm going to measure how much nitrogen in the soil I'm going to measure what the plant nutrient status is. And I'm going to act accordingly as opposed to just putting on so many units every spring or fall. Lucas, what are your thoughts on this topic?   Lucas Pope  2:37  I think Tom hit it on the head. Ultimately, each season is different. So we are trying to actively manage different things at different times of the year. So going from a calendar type, more of an old school thought process of just irrigating on a calendar doesn't really work. Now, in an environment where quality and quantity kind of drive what we do as a farmer. I definitely second all the thoughts that Tom had. And I think that being active in your irrigation management allows you to drive the boat. I've learned a lot over the years from Tom about how early season growth and canopy growth is really important for quality. And you can drive that and being able to limit the water and stress the vines later in the season drives quality. If you're trying to hit top top quality grapes, it's extremely important. One of the most important factors in how we're able to farm actively with our environment to try and achieve the quality that our clients are expecting.   Craig Macmillan  3:37  In your career. Lucas, what are some of the technologies and techniques that you've used over the years to achieve that, because there's lots of different ways to do it. I'm guessing you probably have used a number of different ways.   Lucas Pope  3:47  You've used a number ways. And I've also seen a lot of presentations on different technologies. There are I remember seeing Tom when he was a graduate student give a presentation at Templeton. I fully bought on to the idea, it's gonna be really interesting to see if he was able to actually implement and he made his product commercial, it was phenomenal to see the ability to actually measure your Et coming off the field.   Craig Macmillan  4:10  What does Et stand for?   Lucas Pope  4:12  Evapotransporation. So the actual vines breathing per se, it's exhaling of humidity, and you can measure that very accurately. We've also looked at SAP flow technology where you get SAP and track its movement over a trunk and then a lot of pressure bombs, a whole lot of pressure bombs. Looking at also soil probes to see what's going on underground. That's also a really critical part of the irrigation puzzles, knowing what's going on underground. And if you know your dirt really well then really aids in your decision making process for how much water to put on for your goal of that irrigation. So there are a lot of things out there to help you monitor. At some point there's so much data that it becomes hard to sift through and get good information but I utilize now only the... We have a few soil moisture sensors, but primarily the whole actual Et tracking, because what I've found works the best for me.   Craig Macmillan  5:07  I think one of the keys here is that you've got soil based methods. So you get so much monitored, you've got your plant based methods, whether it's measuring water potential in the plant with a pressure bomb, or whether it's a SAP flow meter measurement. And then you have weather based, whether it be Et, or just trying to work from some kind of weather information. And some of the people that I've talked to seem to feel that relying just on one maybe isn't all it's cracked up to be, but having the ability to look at a couple of different variables. So they Lucas in your case, having some soil and having some weather so that you can kind of correlate and make decisions based on the bigger, bigger picture, I think is great.   Lucas Pope  5:48  For sure, one of the big factors to all this is having a really good forecast, a really good forecast for seeing what's coming up. Because irrigation timing and management has to be something you actively take care of. And you're always thinking about forecasting is also a huge part of it.   Craig Macmillan  6:04  There's there's forecasting, and there's also looking backward. And this is something that continually confuses me. And I've tried to figure this out. And I think I'm still confused. So we measured the water applied in terms of acre feet per acre. That's kind of like really important metric on an annual basis, to say, hey, how are we doing? Did we put on more did we put on less? Did we put on enough? How did the different blocks fare? And they could fit based on the acre inch anchor inch to the idea of rain falling, covering an acre of land, one inch deep, thats so many gallons, but that's not how the water goes on to the actual vineyard. Tom, can you maybe address the difference between those two concepts? Because I haven't really gotten it straight.   Tom Shapland  6:45  We get this question from our customers. And whenever this comes up, I have to pause and think about it for a little bit, because it's complicated. In fact, I normally review some notes that I have to make sure that I'm getting it right. I'm really reviewing those notes now, in the podcast as I talk through this. So let's start with the idea of what is an acre inch. An acre inch is enough water to fill a pool that is one acre in size to a depth of one inch. So imagine a pool that's the size of an acre and you put enough water in there, that when you step in that pool, it goes up to just below your ankle, and it takes about 27,000 gallons of water to do that. So an acre inch is a volume of water and it's 27,000 gallons. When we apply water and vineyards we're not spreading that water evenly out over the acre. Instead we're applying it through drip emitters. It brings up the question how much water is getting applied right under the vine in that drip emitter space in the in the wet area under the drip emitter. And that's what I'm going to talk through now. So let's first talk about a typical vineyard in San Luis Obispo County. Typical vineyard in San Luis Obispo County has nine by five foot, vine and row spacing. So the vines are spaced nine feet apart between rows and five feet apart within rows. And with the typical emitter rates that we see in San Luis Obispo County, if you turn on your pump and let it run for 20 hours, you will have applied 27,000 gallons per acre. The first concept I want to tell the listeners is when you're asking yourself how do I know when I've applied an acre inch to my entire vineyard. You can think of the number 20 hours. In San Luis Obispo County typically 20 hours is how long it takes to run an irrigation system to apply an acre inch of water. That's because most vineyards in San Luis Obispo County are a nine by five spacing. And when you look at the emitter rates and how many emitters there are per vine works out to about 20 hours.   Craig Macmillan  8:53  And it's easy enough to do the conversion to other spacings once we know that based on like an apply to mine.   Tom Shapland  8:58  So here's the trickier part. Now that we've established one acre inches, and we've established how long it takes to run an irrigation system to apply an acre inch or 27,000 gallons of water. Now let's talk about how much water gets applied under the drip zone. When we turn on the pump, and I'm going to walk you through that calculation. Let's assume that's the water when you turn it on the pump is spread out under the drip zone in about a foot and a half square area. So picture a square foot but make it a little bit bigger. So it's about a foot and a half square foot. And again, we're going to assume this vineyard is on nine by five spacing. And when you turn on the water for 20 hours and you apply 27,000 gallons of water through the drip system. You're not putting on that water across that entire area of the vineyard. Instead you're putting it on a more limited area of the vineyard just that foot and a half under the drip zone. Foot maps, square foot under the drip zone. So when you apply 27,000 gallons under that foot and a half under the drip zone, you're actually applying 8.3 inches of water to that wetted area. And the reason that's true is because you're applying the water, not across the entire vineyard, but a much smaller area of the vineyard, just the wet zone, you're not spreading that water equally across the entire vineyard. Instead, it's just the wetted zone. So why does that 8.3 inches number important? Well, it's, it's interesting to think about in terms of what's the average water holding capacity in San Luis Obispo County. For six feet of rooting depth, let's just say six feet is a good starting point for assuming how how deep the vines, vine roots go actually think they tend to go deeper. I know they go deeper if the soil is deeper, but let's just assume six feet. Well, the water holding capacity in San Luis Obispo County is 5.3 inches on average. So if you're turning on your pump for 20 hours, let's bring it all together. Now all back to one idea. If you turn on your pump for 20 hours, you're gonna apply an inch of water, but you're not putting that water out across the entire vineyard, you're putting it just in the wetted zone. And if your vineyard has the average water holding capacity in the county, you're putting on more water than that soil can hold under the drip zone. You're putting on 8.3 inches of water. But the soil can only hold 5.3 inches of water.   Craig Macmillan  11:27  So if I put on 5.3 inches of water only? Am I going to capture all of that? Or is there still going to be some drainage?   Tom Shapland  11:34  That's a interesting question, Craig.   Craig Macmillan  11:36  Depend on the soil probably?   Tom Shapland  11:38  Yeah, let's say that we're going back to this hypothetical vineyard that we've been talking about here, it has 5.3 inches of water holding capacity. If that soil is at the permanent wilting point, so it's very dry already, and you put on 5.3 inches of water in that drip zone, then that water should be there, that water is not going to go anywhere, you're actually going to lose some to evaporation. That's why I hesitated there. But let's assume there's no evaporation either. If you put on 5.3 inches of water, just under that drip zone, it's in your soils dry to start with, it'll hold it. But if you have any water already in there, you're gonna saturate that soil. And you're gonna get some drainage out the bottom, or you'll start to see some runoff off the top. It gets a little tricky in this hypothetical situation we're talking about, I think maybe we shouldn't avoid that for the moment.   Craig Macmillan  12:30  But this that, because of variation along the coast, this means I'm going to have to have an idea of what my particular water available water only capacity is. Lucas, what how do you go about guesstimating or measuring or getting a handle on that because in your area, you've got everything from really heavy clays to sand.   Lucas Pope  12:47  Yeah, so the only way to really do it is soil samples. And Tom has helped me dissect some soil pits to figure out different layers, different depths, water holding capacities, actually sending out soils to labs, to find out your entire profile five to six feet deep, how much water you can actually hold or, like in the case of places we have soil moisture sensors, we can just watch the water, and then watch how fast it drains. It's pretty interesting to see. And that's typically why we irrigate not such long sets, the only time we really irrigate really long sets is to leech salt, because like Tom saying, if you're going to do a long set, you're going to carry the water beyond the rooting zone. And therefore you're able to leach those salts farther down. But that's only in overwinter watering. We're not we never really do that during the summertime or even to drive some growth this time of the year. Most of our irrigation sets are between four and eight hours to give the vines enough water that they're in the soil for them to grow, but not be excessive. I think that's been one of the more critical parts are pieces to the puzzle when you're trying to be as water conscious as possible.   Craig Macmillan  14:00  So Lucas, how do you know what's excessive?   Lucas Pope  14:03  What's excessive would be I mean, if you have the ability to watch this, the soil sensors, soil moisture probes, you can tell when you hit the depth at the bottom and tell where how deep that is. And if you're being excessive. Otherwise, if you overwinter when we're trying to leach salts, we want to be excessive when waters you know, typically we do that while there's rain coming and a rain event coming or rain event just past. So your soils are going to be somewhere near saturation already. And we're just trying to push salt deeper. Otherwise, it's a really good question. We don't try and be excessive and that's why we keep our irrigations shorter.   Craig Macmillan  14:37  Then my question I guess is, like how do you know?   Tom Shapland  14:40  Let me jump in, One way I sometimes see this with some of our new customers who have not been measuring Et in the past. We tell them with our sensor here's how much water your vineyard used over the last week. And if you're applying more water than what the vines used, then that's one way of knowing that I'm applying too much water. So if my vines use 20 gallons per vine last week, but you put on 30, you know that those vines didn't use all of the water that you put on.   Craig Macmillan  15:14  I want to ask you guys about the flip side of this, how do I know if I'm not putting on enough water? Especially when we're in a drought, we're not getting rain, we may not be getting that soil profile filled up going into budbreak. We may, we're having some heat events. Weather information in the Paso Robles area that I looked at last year showed that the highs were higher and the length of the heat waves were longer. And it's not a linear relationship by any means. I'm not suggesting that. But we had some, you know, 105 for four days in a row situations. How do I know whether I'm putting on enough?   Tom Shapland  15:45  It depends on what time of year, you'd have different goals for different times of year. So this time of year, we're talking now in the spring, it's May, the goal is to develop a large enough canopy that you can ripen your crop and protect your crop from sun damage. So this time of year, growers are watching their shoot tips and monitoring the growth of their shoot tips or monitoring the growth of their vines making sure that their vines are not slowing down. Once the vines slow down and stop growing, it's hard to restart that growth. And some of our growers are using our computer vision tool called Tule Vision that tells the grower whether or not the vines are less than 10 bars in midday leaf water potential or 10 bars or above 10 bars in midday leaf water potential. And right around 10 bars is where the vines start to slow down. So are, some of our growers are using this tool to monitor their canopies and make sure they're not slowing down if they begin to see signs that they're slowing down like they're seeing midday leaf water potential readings of 10 bars, then they know it's time to take some sort of action. Generally that action is water. I think it's water because I have a hammer, and everything's a nail everything's a water problem for me. But you know if you know the nutritional status of your vineyard, how it's been managed, you think it hasn't been getting enough nitrogen might be time for a shot of nitrogen too. So to summarize, in the beginning of the season, you're trying to manage canopy growth and growers are watching their canopies. If they're canopies are slowing down, they need to apply water and nitrogen. Then once the canopy has reached its full size around pea size, for the fruit stage, it typically happens late May to get the most vigorous sites it can be all the way you know, mid July, and in some areas of San Luis Obispo County, then growers are managing the stress level their plants they're seeing how stressed their plants are. And the best growers have a plan going into the season for here's how much water stress I want at different stages of the crop development. And I'm going to monitor my water stress compared to that target and irrigate when I go below that target. I may hold off from irrigating while I'm above that target. And we started this conversation talking about the importance of irrigating not on the calendar, so that you can achieve the yield and quality goals that you have every year. Wine business is very competitive. You have to achieve your targets for staying alive. Thus, growers are setting up targets for what water stress they want, at different times of the year. And then monitoring that water stress and irrigating accordingly. And so they can get to that yield and quality target that they set out for.   Craig Macmillan  18:22  And the key key here is that those targets are numerical, they are measured. They are quantitative. I want to touch on the Tule Vision technology for a second because I think it's an interesting hybrid, where the way I understand is that you have a camera, you take a picture of a vine, it then goes to the cloud, there's a artificial intelligence machine learning thing to understand. That takes that image compares it to this huge catalog that was ground truth against pressure bomb readings for leaf water potential or stem water potentials. That's right, that accurate?   Lucas Pope  18:57  Tom, did you use pressure bombs? Or do you use the Tule measurements?   Tom Shapland  19:02  We use the Tule measurements, that's what I was about to say. The Tule measurements and Tule measurements are correlated to the pressure bomb. So we use some of the academic research that showed the relationship between water stress measured using the Et method and water stress measured using the pressure bond method. We use that relationship to create our ground truth data set.   Craig Macmillan  19:24  Okay, so there was actually there's some kind of steps something's correlated that something's correlated something else. The reason I bring this up is I did a study with Vineyard Team few years ago, and we would interview growers about irrigation scheduling and the number one thing that came out of it was visual. So people might have these other technologies but the number one thing they revised the relied upon was visual. I thought that was really made a lot of sense. I get it. But also the other thing was like even with visual information, you can quantify it. You can count active shoot tips, you can again take pictures for yourself, you can you know look at the Tule Vision information. I went to one of your are demonstrations, I was walking around with a couple of growers, and we were identifying just visually ourselves what we thought the stress level of the vines were. And we were pretty good. We were pretty good. But again, there wasn't a number tied to it. And I think that that's important when you're especially when you're working with 10s of millions of dollars with a crop, winging it. Yeah, you know, your comfort level. And so I think that there's, again, this idea that there's multiple ways of bringing this all together, and you can walk your vineyard and look and early, hey, I'm seeing what I think is the right amount of stress or not. But if you can put a number with it from another measure and go, Hey, now I know exactly how much water I do want to put on I don't want to put on and again, getting to how many inches it actually is how many gallons it actually is, I think is really important. Because otherwise, like you said, we're losing water that otherwise we could be using later. And if it's draining out of the out of the flow profile, then we're losing it. In your guys's minds, what are the biggest challenges? Just overall, we've talked about all kinds of tools and methods? What are some of the biggest challenges overall to scheduling irrigation efficiently? I'm gonna start with you, Lucas.   Lucas Pope  20:59  I mean, it's a constantly moving target. Looking at a forecast right now that you know, we're in the 60s right now. But it's possible to hit 100 on Sunday, and possibly 98 on Monday. Trying to make sure because we're building canopy right now, trying to make sure that we have enough water. So the vines don't stress too early in the season, next week will be really an interesting equation to navigate through because we have so many different vineyards all over the place. Those that have different water holding capacities in the soils, if you have a lower water holding capacity, it's going to be one of my priorities to try and get a little bit of water on this week. Where other sites that are less hillsides or have a drought tolerant rootstock that I know has been established for a few years I'm not so worried about but the constantly moving target is the hardest part about irrigation scheduling, for sure. Like Tom said, we set up targets. I set them up last week for where I want to see my stress levels later in the season. At this point, we're building canopy that's the the focus for right now because I want to have enough canopy to ripen the fruit that is being expected to be grown to a quality level that we want to see into that equation comes how many leaves are going to pull or not based upon sight and location and sunburn exposure or shade cloth use. That all comes into the equation. But because Mother Nature, we're trying to do our best to guide these vines through to the end of the season and deliver a product, a grape itself, that's the highest quality through a maze of what Mother Nature is throwing at us. Like you said, I mean, I can't believe last year's heat waves. It didn't seem that hot. But it was for an extended period of time. The heat spikes I think are what gives us the most, a few years ago when we hit 115 for multiple days straight that that really hurts, we have to be so far in advance thinking about what happens when that situation comes up, we really need to be proactive on those types of situations.   Craig Macmillan  22:57   And that brings me to the next point, which I think is a tricky one. And Tom, I want you to address this. Weather based irrigation scheduling methods like EtAor EtO, they they are backward looking. They're saying hey, this is how much was lost? How can I use this concept of this technology or these ideas to get ahead of it? The grower has got to be in front right or vines are going to collapse. And then you try to put water back on and it's too late. It's got to be wet going into that, right? Those roots need to be wet and cool going into that. What can I do? I mean, there's not a direct relationship necessarily between hey, it's gonna be 105 on Sunday, and that means it's gonna be an EtA of, et cetera. What help can you give us what? What can you tell us?   Tom Shapland  23:41  I can tell you what I see in our data. We have data throughout the state and vineyards all along the coast and inland. And it all boils down to one concept. And this is something that we intuitively know as people who love plants and manage plants. And so they stare at plants all day. And that's that if the plants are in a good water status, before heatwave, they'll do fine. A lot of your vineyards right now out there, it's it's early May when we're talking right now, if we got a heat wave tomorrow, are you are on deep soil and those shoot tips are growing actively and the plants are bright green, they'll do just fine. There's no need to panic and put on 20 hours of water. But if your plants are beginning to dry out, if your water status is more stressed, it's on the brink of being more stressed than you want. And you get a heatwave, that's when you reach these situations where the plants crash and it's hard to get them to recover. And I see this in our data, you know, we get heat waves and as long as the fields that are water stress reading is high, the plants do fine. You know there's not a big drop in fields stat it's when the plants are already kind of at 60% fields stat they're already stressed and we get as heat wave and they don't put on water, then we see fields stats just plummet and it's hard to get them back up. And then the growers are putting on a ton of water. And I think most of that's going to evaporation the plants aren't even able to take it it. Does that match what you've seen Lucas?   Lucas Pope  25:12  Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. The vines as long as they're so happy, going into a heatwave, we're pretty good. And I think that's why we strategize the way we do for our irrigations pre heat waves. And it's always 100%. That's where the forecast comes in. The weather forecast itself comes in having a good weather forecast is very difficult sometimes. So I don't know, Craig, I look at three or four. I don't know how many you look at. But I have my little bits and pieces I pick from each one that I trust. And then I try and put them all together and.   Craig Macmillan  25:46  Hope for the best. It's fun to compare notes with people on what whether they trust, what forecasts they trust. Tommy mentioned a thing called field stat. Can you briefly explain what that is, because it's a technical term?   Tom Shapland  25:58  There are a lot of ways to measure water status of plants, they have been developed in the academic literature for years and years. One way is something that we're all familiar with, and, and that's called pressure chamber, water potential measured with the pressure chamber. Another method is to look at how much water the plants are using and compare that to how much they could use, given the weather in the size of the plant. So imagine a plant, if it's 80 degrees out and sunny, and your size of your plant is a six foot long cordon with a nice full canopy, that plant can use so much water, let's say that plant can use five gallons that day. If that plant is not water stressed, it's gonna use all five gallons. But if that plant is encountering water deficits in the soil, it's going to regulate its water use and its going to use less water, it's gonna use three gallons of water, for example. So if plants are using less water than they potentially could use their water stressed. And in academia, this comparison of how much water plants are using compared to what they potentially could use is called the stress coefficient in the Et equation, but the stress coefficient doesn't sound very snappy. We call it field stat, because it sounds cooler.   Craig Macmillan  27:21  That makes sense. We're running out of time here. But I wanted to ask you guys, what is the one thing that you would advise a fellow grower as far as irrigation scheduling? What would be the one bit of advice you might give somebody? Tom why don't you go first?   Tom Shapland  27:36  Yeah, I was thinking about this when he said, What's the hardest part of irrigation scheduling. And when I started Tule, I thought the hardest part was getting good information that you could act upon. And now after nine years of running this business, I think that the hardest part is organizational. Like customers that do the best at farming, they're the most profitable, that grow the best fruit, are the best organized. Our best customers have somebody that is in charge of figuring out the priorities of what's important agronomically. And then once they've identified the priorities, agronomically, they have a process for evaluating which tool they're gonna use to help them achieve their agronomic goals. And then they have a process for implementing it and holding people accountable. Farming is chaos. It's a great Mike Tyson, quote, everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face. You know, every farmer goes into the growing season with a great plan. But then the farming season happens, you lose a well and whatnot. And it all goes to heck. And the best companies we work with, have systems in place where they have goals, and they have somebody holding everyone on their team accountable to those goals. And I'm gonna say the opposite of that now. And when I think of those customers, I have a rosy and optimistic outlook for California agriculture. Unfortunately, they're the minority. Majority of farming operations they have, I mean, it sounds really harsh to say this, I wonder if I should say it on record. But I think it's true. From my experiences working in ag, the majority of farming operations, they have too many ad hoc processes. You know, too many things, too many responsibilities, that should be corporate initiatives pushed down on their individual ranch manager. And the ranch manager is too busy trying to run the pumps and game the fertilizer out and getting the sprays done to actually be able to implement these things that are really important and much more bigger picture. And we have to stay ahead of these. Otherwise LA's gonna take all our water.   Craig Macmillan  29:34  So just to kind of summarize, having systems in place and having people that are responsible for executing those systems. So it's great to have a plan but unless you have some structure that's going to withstand the panic, right, that ensues during the growing season, then you're going to struggle.   Tom Shapland  29:53  Yes, and I'm sorry, I'm gonna keep soapboxing for a little bit here. That means that you can't put your ranch managers in charge of evaluating technology and what technologies are getting us which practices they're getting us because they're too busy. You gotta have somebody more senior, somebody at Lucas Pope's level in the organization to say, water is important at this company, pest management is important at this company. Here's how we're going to do it. And I'm going to hold you accountable all season long that you're getting this done.   Craig Macmillan  30:20  Yeah, I think the comparison to pest management is a good one. If you got field scouts that are quantifying and reporting back to maybe a head PCA or to a manager, that's very different than relying upon your tractor drivers to report when things look bad. And unfortunately, a lot of us don't have time or money or to organizationally address that. But if you can, that's going to be your best route for irrigation. And for other things. Lucas, what's the one thing you'd advise a grower regarding this irrigation scheduling?   Lucas Pope  30:47  Super interesting. Listen to Tom, on one thing, it's hard, paying attention to details is going to be your biggest asset. Spending the time I was struggling with the whole idea of something I want to do ages ago was make work orders like in a winery for irrigation, sprays, so that you hand someone a piece of paper, they have to sign off on the work being done. and report back to you see how to record of it.   Craig Macmillan  31:13  It's hard to do in farming, though, because it's a day to day morning of, you know, kind of thing. But yeah, I hear what you're saying. Yeah,   Lucas Pope  31:20  I mean, ultimately, we're always looking to the future instead of the past with the forecast and how hot it's going to be and how our well health is and how much water we have available to us in a reservoir or trying to look forward. And then also having really good people. And it's extremely difficult to find really good people. But when you build a team, and everybody's working towards the same goal, so from the top to the bottom, we all know the same goal, it becomes much easier to implement a plan of action.   Craig Macmillan  31:51  Well, this is interesting. We we're out of time, the one comment I want to make to kind of bring this all together is we started with technology, we ended up with people. And I think that that's a key bit of this business is the people part and how we apply things. I want to thank you both for being here. I guess it's been Tom Shapland, founder, Co-Founder and CEO of Tule Technologies and Lucas Pope, Director of Operations for Coastal Vineyard Services here in the central coast. Really fascinating conversation. I really appreciate you guys taking the time. Please visit our website for other podcasts and information and we hope that you will come back and take another listen to Sustainable Winegrowing with the Vineyard Team. Thank you.   Tom Shapland  32:28  Thank you for having us. This was really fun.   Lucas Pope  32:30  I really enjoyed it.   Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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