Podcasts about makes

Everyone lives through time, but we continue to struggle to fully understand it. We remain unsure whether time is fundamental or emergent, why it has an arrow pointing from past to future, and how that arrow connects to our experience of time's passage. Jim Al-Khalili's new book is On Time: The Physics that Makes the Universe Tick. We discuss what time is at the most basic level, and how it connects to open questions in biology, cosmology, and quantum mechanics. Mindscape listeners can try StatsKey Pro free for one month with code MINDSCAPE. After that, it's $4.99 per month unless canceled. #ad Blog post with transcript: https://preposterousuniverse.com/podcast/2026/08/31/366-jim-al-khalili-on-time-quantum-biology-and-cosmology/ Support Mindscape on Patreon. Jim Al-Khalili received his Ph.D. in physics from the University of Surrey. He is currently Distinguished Emeritus Professor of Physics at Surrey. He is a Fellow of the Royal Society, and has served as past president of the British Science Association. He has been awarded the Michael Faraday Prize by the Royal Society, and has been appointed an appointed Officer of the Order of the British Empire. Web site University of Surrey web page Google Scholar publications Amazon author page Wikipedia YouTube

Your brain already made up its mind about today's episode, and you haven't even heard the topic yet. That's not a guilt trip; that's neuroscience. In the next few seconds, your mind will label this video interesting or skip it, useful or not, right up your alley or not, and it will do all of that before you have any real information. Today we're calling that out by name. It's called Whole-O-Graphic Vision, and it might be the most useful three minutes you spend all week. Makes sense? Good. Let's get into it. Follow Dr. JC Doornick and the Makes Sense Academy:► Makes Sense Substack - https://drjcdoornick.substack.com ► Instagram: / drjcdoornick ► Substack: / drjcdoornick ►Facebook:  / makessensepodcast ►YouTube:  / drjcdoornick MAKES SENSE PODCAST Welcome to the Makes Sense with Dr. JC Doornick Podcast. This podcast explores topics that expand human consciousness and enhance performance. On the Makes Sense Podcast, we acknowledge that it's who you are that determines how well what you do works, and that perception is subjective and an acquired taste. When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at begin to change. Welcome to the uprising of the sleepwalking masses. Welcome to the Makes Sense with Dr. JC Doornick Podcast. SUBSCRIBE/RATE/REVIEW & SHARE our new podcast. FOLLOW Podcast: You will find a "Follow" button in the top right. This will enable the podcast software to alert you when a new episode launches each week. Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/makes-sense-with-dr-jc-doornick/id1730954168 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1WHfKWDDReMtrGFz4kkZs9?si=003780ca147c4aec Podcast Affiliates: Kwik Learning: Many people ask me where I get all these topics, which I've been covering for almost 15 years. I have learned to read nearly four times faster and retain information 10 times better with Kwik Learning. Learn how to learn and earn with Jim Kwik. Get his program at a special discount here: https://jimkwik.com/dragon OUR SPONSORS: Operly - Take Back Control of Your Work Day and Get Rid of All Your AI Apps - Welcome to the new world of Time Freedom and Unlimited Scaling and Success with Operly -  https://go.getoperly.ai/video?ref=jean-claude-claude-d-2a95 Blue Blinds Bakery - Handcrafted with all-natural ingredients - www.blueblindsbakery.com 0.00.00 - Teaser 0.14.00 - Intro 1:07.00 - Whole O Graphic Vision Intro 2:34.00 - Great Morning 4:09.00 - The Story Making Machine 6:14.00 - Whole-O-Graphic Vision and the IRS 10:44.00 - The Bouncer 18:43.00 - What is Whole - O - Graphic Vision 25:10.00 - The Question that Changes Everything 31:29.00 - Recognizing the limitations of your vantage point 33:22.00 - Why Certainty Feels So Good 36:18.00 - Add the Algorithm of Social Media 39:53.00 - Closed vs. Open Circuit Mindset 40:31.00 - Makes Sense Glasses 44:10.00 - The Good Shift Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Join the C3 Panthers Podcast as the C3 crew react to and discuss…-Are the Detroit Lions trying to Jack our swagger-Makes predictions for the 53 man roster-How many WR's will Carolina carry into the season-With Haynes King not playing another preseason game what will his role be for the Panthers-Can Sam Hecht be the center of the future for the Panthers-Will Dan Morgan upgrade the LB room before the start of the seasonAll this and MORE!

If you're doing EVERYTHING in your relationship and starting to resent the hell out of your partner for it…we need to talk. You're the one who notices. Remembers. Plans. Worries. Follows up. Makes sure things actually happen. And after a while, it stops feeling like we're in this together and starts feeling like: Why am I the only one who cares? I've been a marriage counselor for over twenty years, and I can tell you: this dynamic can get ugly. Because underneath the arguments about dishes, schedules, kids, errands, and who was supposed to do what is something much more painful: If you really loved me, why would you let me carry all of this alone? That's why I invited sociologist Dr. Leah Ruppanner, author of Drained, to join me for a very real conversation about mental load, resentment, and how to create a relationship that actually feels balanced again. And some of what she shared surprised me. Because the solution may not be getting your partner to do more. It may not be splitting everything 50/50. And some of the things you're doing to make your relationship more equitable could actually be keeping you stuck. You'll discover: Why does the mental load turn into such intense resentment? What's really happening when you feel like you're the only one who cares? Why can asking your partner to “just help more” backfire? What if 50/50 isn't actually the healthiest goal? Are you unknowingly making it harder for your partner to step up? And how do you change this dynamic when your partner isn't changing? If you're exhausted from carrying your relationship (and even more exhausted from being angry about it), listen to this before you have the same fight again. Xoxo, Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby Growing Self Special thanks to this month's sponsors of the podcast: Shopify —  Every self-made person started somewhere. Yours starts free at shopify.com/lhs Quince — Quality products you'll actually use that feel like luxury without the price tag. Get free shipping and 365-day returns at ⁠quince.com/lhs⁠ Skylight — Stay connected with the people you love through beautiful digital calendars and photo frames designed for real family life. Learn more at skylightcal.com/lhs.

What makes a good compliment? What are some of the biggest compliments you can give someone? Words have weight. Makes the compliments you give count, and be intentional with your compliments today and always.Thank you for joining us in between seasons for this specialmini-season format of The Victory Couch, Upholstery. We hope these gentle reminders will encourage you to disconnect with what doesn't really matter and CONNECT with those who do (The Victory Couch is hosted by Rick and Julie Rando).Show notes: Continue the conversation over on Instagram@thevictorycouch,Facebook, victorycouchpodcast@gmail.com, or⁠⁠www.thevictorycouch.com⁠⁠Want a new Victory Couch sticker for your water bottle, laptop, guitar case, etc.? Send us a message and we'll mail you one.Listen to the original episode in FULL here:Season 4: Episode 4 – about Ohio rest stops, pet peeves, compliments, and celebrity letters https://open.spotify.com/episode/133DKDIz7GZIBTfjzX6brA?si=Z4Nbg1hQRRymPKZi08mPeAWhat makes a good compliment? What are some of the biggestcompliments you can give someone? Words have weight. Makes thecompliments you give count, and be intentional with your complimentstoday and always.Thank you for joining us in between seasons for this specialmini-season format of The Victory Couch, Upholstery. We hope thesegentle reminders will encourage you to disconnect with what doesn'treally matter and CONNECT with those who do (The Victory Couch ishosted by Rick and Julie Rando).Show notes: Continue the conversation over on Instagram@thevictorycouch,Facebook, victorycouchpodcast@gmail.com, or⁠⁠www.thevictorycouch.com⁠⁠Want a new Victory Couch sticker for your water bottle, laptop,guitar case, etc.? Send us a message and we'll mail you one.Listen to the original episode in FULL here:Season4: Episode 4 – about Ohio rest stops, pet peeves, compliments, andcelebrity letters https://open.spotify.com/episode/133DKDIz7GZIBTfjzX6brA?si=Z4Nbg1hQRRymPKZi08mPeA

Re-releasing a Dental A-Team podcast fan favorite! Britt is fresh off visiting a ton of practices, many of which are part of dental support organizations (DSOs), and she's sharing her insight. With Kiera, she talks about the foundational pieces to set up DSOs for success — everything from training the leadership team, setting up KPIs, providing profit and loss statement education, and allowing culture and patient experience to grow in each practice while keeping an overall brand. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: Kiera Dent (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera. And today we are bringing you something so special. I am so excited because this is one of our most popular episodes from the archives. Whether you're hearing this for the first time or catching it again, I am so excited because it's jam packed with a ton of takeaways that you can start using right now in your practice. We have released thousands, literally thousands of episodes. And I wanted to start bringing a few of these amazing episodes back for you. So I hope you enjoy. And as always, thanks for listening and I'll catch you next time.   on the Dental A Team podcast.   speaker-0 (00:31) and I've got the one and only Brittany Stone back on the pod. Guys, she has been a freaking road warrior, traveling to seven offices in one day. Dang, Britt. Welcome back. How you doing? How you feeling? How are you today?   speaker-1 (00:45) I'm good. You made me sound better than I was in one day. Seven in a week. Still a lot, but seven in a week.   speaker-0 (00:51) Yeah, that's exactly what I meant. We could edit that or you guys can just know. in my mind, I think it felt like you were seven in a day. Like you were cruising   speaker-1 (00:58) Yeah.   speaker-0 (01:00) to practices. Seven in a week is so many offices. But guys, don't worry, Britt wasn't like leaving them high and dry hanging out. You were seeing it kind of walk us through. I know you went to quite a few DSOs that had multi practices, multi locations. Kind of what was that like and and how does that even look when you're going to multiple practices like that?   speaker-1 (01:19) Yeah, it's fun. So that was it was a week of my like multi practice location. So one had three offices, one had four offices, the two groups that I work with last week. And so it's fun. It's fun to see one you get to know kind of like the visionaries who who started a thing, whether it's just an owner or multiple partners that are involved in it, get to see kind of their vision and it's it's fun to see   the different also types of practices that are underneath their umbrellas and how they run 'cause usually we've got some different sizes, obviously different locations. So so yeah, I got to go in, meet everybody, go see all the different practices, kind of see what's going on with them, what things we could help with on an individual practice level and then also as an organization. So it was a good time.   speaker-0 (02:07) That's a lot. And I I do think it is fun when you go see multiple practices because this whole idea of DSO is that we want all of our practices to run exactly the same. And I know when I was a regional manager of ten practices, the bottom line is there is no such thing as running every practice the same. I think it's more like getting rid of that illusion that they're all going to be the same. And it's more what are the foundational pieces and the the silver lining strings that we want running amongst them all. Britt, I know you had one practice,   that kind of wanted to do their own thing within a group. Like, how do you how do you get like one, paint the vision of all the practices needing to be at least fundamentally pretty consistent and similar. And then also helping the doctors and the team members understand like, I get it, it might be annoying for you, but for the greater good of all the practices, it really does make everything easier when we run the same. Because I know a lot of practices just want to run as solo practices, but when you're in a group and multi-offices   that no longer serves the greater organization. Like what was kind of your findings with that? How do you how are you finding to get people on board? Is that something you were running into? Just kinda give us your thoughts around that.   speaker-1 (03:16) Yeah, I think every DSO probably struggles or like group practice struggles with all right, how much do we have the same and like where can we kind of let them be their own and shine in their own way? And also from the business side of things for the DSO, right? What things are more financially beneficial for us to be able to do them the same and have on the same system? so that we run it across all offices and get the true benefit of the DSO.   And so that's where you s kind of start to to figure out, all right, there's gonna be a lot of systems that one, yes, anything that impacts other offices or the group overall, we've gotta make the best decision for the group on how we want that to run, whether it's but easy things like payroll is a pretty pretty common one that's gotta be obviously the same across all over offices. If we're using the same software, right, the way we run our schedule, who's allowed to be on our schedule.   All of those things kinda need guidelines that go across the board. So we all know a little bit of the rules of engagement on things like the schedule. So that's kinda I start to think of it as all right, what are the most important things that impact each other that we need to have the same that's also gonna allow us to be most financially beneficial for the DSO? And then what things don't necessarily impact the other offices where those offices can start to really like, all right, what are procedures you do? Great, go run with it, build it up and   Even if we can get some referrals from other offices for that thing, fantastic and they kinda kinda do their own a little bit.   speaker-0 (04:48) For sure.   And but I was thinking like it actually might be fun on this podcast for us to dive into when you're in a DSO, because Br I know your private practice sold to a DSO. I work with lots of DSOs. You work with lots of DSOs. And I think DSOs are a pretty hot buzzword right now in dentistry. of kind of what are some of those things that you should have standardized. I love that you brought up the payroll for sure. for me, some of the things I know I'm looking at is I really am just looking at   Key metrics amongst all practices. And I know, Britt, with a lot of the DSOs that you and I are consulting together, that is one of the biggest things of making sure all of them are hitting the metrics. And then whatever they want to do outside of those metrics, it's pretty much free reign from there. So, like we're talking labs, supplies, overhead, production per hour per provider, hygiene production.   those are like my main things. Case acceptance is another one I really like to watch. Number of new patients per practice is another key indicator that I really love watching. but those are kind of the main things. And then I really feel like in DSOs and multi practices, some of the biggest things that get lost are culture and patient experience. And those are to be different shades for every practice. And I really I like practices to think in like, no, you want the patient to feel the exact same way whether they come to this location.   Or whether they're going to another location. It is that way. And having practices and offices think like I've got one right now and they just acquired another practice. And they're really doing a divide between the offices. And they're they're labeling each office based on the city. I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. let's call them all the practice name. So we are all, let's just say, healthy smiles. It's not healthy smiles of probos and healthy smiles of orum. It is   Healthy smiles, and then we have our Aurum location and our provo location. Those are just a quick way because I think when you can have it as an umbrella of all the practices operate as this way, and then here's these different locations, but helping everyone realize there is the healthy smiles way. And we operate on healthy smiles first. Secondary is going to be our location. Are those some of the things you've seen? Like those are one, the key indicators I like to look at. And then secondly, making sure that people realize like the culture and the patient experience.   really need to be dialed in in my opinion, to really help these DSOs grow and flourish.   speaker-1 (07:09) Mm-hmm. I'm with you on KPIs, right? Teaching office managers how to be able to kind of take charge of those, know what's going on in their practice, and that we're all watching those important numbers to be healthy for sure. That's an across the board thing. and then I'm with you on capitalize off the brand. from a lot of the DSOs we work with, where it's a few different locations, usually I feel like a lot of them are gonna be like five or less, where you can truly   make sure that we are maintaining our standard, maintaining our brand, and then capitalize off of that brand for all practices to where there might be a patient who's looking to go to the office, but maybe it's a little bit farther. great, they've got a location that's closer than to me. Awesome. Let me just go ahead and go to that closer location. And agreed. You've got to keep then the culture and the patient experience up to be number one. And what does that look like? What does it stand for? And there are   I will say different pieces that go into that when it comes to maintaining that culture in our practices and that experience. And I think those would be some non-negotiables like you start to build in if it's we're on time, right, with our appointments as much as possible. So that's something we really drive with our teams. We're always friendly with our patients, we're always welcoming. How do we present on the phone?   you can start to dig into some of those things that you really want to represent as a practice and make sure it's ingrained in our team members and how we present.   speaker-0 (08:41) Yeah. And I think like you said it's that culture in that brand. And honestly, I think people forget that that's actually why you became successful. Like that culture, that brand you started developing, that's how you're able to multiple scale across other practices. And I feel like offices that that see all the practices as one company and then the the different locations are just extensions of that company are the ones that really flourish. In that same thing, I feel like Britt, something you and I have really been   trying to hone in on with offices is to make sure that they have a key leadership team. So people that are really in sync to make decisions. and that's for your operations, for your labs, for your supplies, and and then making sure that things can actually execute forward. Because I feel like when we get a lot of partners involved, what happens is everybody has a strong opinion, but those opinions actually are great unless they stop all the the forward progress   And I think they really just have to be key decision players that everybody elects. It's almost like a board. I feel like all the practices are almost like a neighborhood and you need an HOA, like somebody who can actually just make the decisions and execute in the best interest. And maybe you've got a few of them. So you've got, say, your regional manager who's overseeing all of the practices, the overhead, the operations really. You've possibly got a clinical manager on there who's really looking at the hygiene, the dental assistants.   Then you've got probably a dentist on the board who's making decisions as far as what are the clinical diagnoses, what are the supplies that all dentists need across the board. And then you're probably gonna have somebody who's your finance person. So someone really looking at the financials of the practice. And if you can have one of those key players, I feel like just get that honed in. Then you can have all the practices have their own like little leadership teams and whatnot.   But really you've got those four players who can make very strong decisions. And maybe the dentist is the same person as the clinical lead. Maybe that we don't need an extra person there, maybe not. But I think if you can really get that dialed in, you're going to be able to make a lot stronger decisions and be able to move things forward more. Britt, what are you seeing? Like you were literally just in DSOs. Are you finding that that type of structure helps move things along? Or are you finding like, no, we need to have key leaders in other areas?   Wha what's kind of your take on how to make sure decisions can be made? Because I truly feel like once you get the the KPIs dialed in and everyone's reporting in, once you get your office managers looking at their practices, making sure they're profitable and reporting in, then you got your culture and your brand, it's really about getting decisions made quickly and moving things along rather than getting stagnated with so many opinions.   speaker-1 (11:20) Mm-hmm. And I am big on agreed. You've got to figure out who are your key players, what leadership team do you need in place. I am in big support of having someone who's a strong regional manager in place to help make a lot of those kind of smaller decisions for offices, the offices need support on and empowering office managers to make decision decisions within the balance that you give them.   I think the more you expose your office managers and teach them some of the business side to where they really know what those KPIs are, they really know what they're watching, they know how to influence it, you'll become more confident in their decision making as they see things at a kind of higher level, a bigger picture. but when they can have that information, know how to see it from a little bit higher level, start giving them   the the opportunity to make decisions within their practice. So one, they can kind of see the fun and feel empowered to where they really can run that team and own that office. and they don't feel like they're just kind of sitting waiting for people to tell them what to do. and then that they've got a really strong regional behind them who also has the ability to make decisions within the parameters that if it's partners or owner gives them.   to keep moving things forward and same thing. It's a super empowering thing to where they can get more creative and think of o opportunities for the practices than just feeling like they need to wait because they can't make a decision or do anything because someone's not gonna approve of it.   speaker-0 (12:47) And I really love that you talked about having that regional manager understand the business. I feel like in DSOs, you have to have somebody who understands the business and can think like a business owner. That way they can make decisions. Britt, what were some of the things that as you were basically their regional manager, you were in that DSO role? What were some of the things you felt helped? Because I I think I think sometimes business owners forget everything they've learned. So having somebody come through, it's almost like we've forgotten what business 101 is.   of what things we really need to teach them. What have you found that was maybe helpful for you, for your owners to teach you so you could be more successful in your role within that DSL?   speaker-1 (13:28) Sure. I think one of the first things is helping the office managers and regional managers understand what a PL is. Like, and it doesn't even have to be like the terms of this is a PL, but understanding, I like to relate it to it's just like at home if we have a budget, right? And what money do we have coming in, what things are we spending money in, and at the end, you know, what do we have left over? Just helping them understand not overall.   kind of equation of how the business runs and what are the different pieces within that that they can impact, which is ultimately how many patients we have, how much we treatment plan is truly our ultimate potential as an office. And then what we close, what we schedule, what we collect on, and then controlling our expenses, so then we can have a greater kind of profit left over at the end. So helping them understand that big picture and then helping them to understand within each of those little sections, which are   Then KPIs, what are the more like tangible things that we can track that impact that bigger equation to the business? And agreed, I think we don't realize how much we've learned along the way or people have taught us along the way, even myself kind of running through sometimes these KPIs when you haven't seen them before and you don't understand one, maybe where they come from, or two, why would we even track it? And three.   What could I even do to change that number? Like those are things you have to learn over time and someone's gotta gotta actually take the time to invest in teaching you.   speaker-0 (14:59) Which I I don't think people realize that PNL. When I first looked at a PL, I'm like, this looks like a straight up foreign language. Like I don't even know what ninety percent of this means. And so just imagine, if you will, if you've been running a business, you've been looking at PNLs, pretend you were just plunked into like for me, I do not speak Chinese. So being stuck in a class speaking Chinese and them handing me a report and saying, Kiera, you need to be able to read this and figure it out and tell me what I should do with my business.   I would literally look at that and want to cry. And then I'd probably take a picture with my phone and I'd start Googling and I'd hope and pray I could find some type of Google Translate to figure it out. That like I feel is a good way for you to really understand like what it feels like to be those team members when they first start looking at PL. So I think one of the best ways is just practice. and what I've done is like Britt said, is really just   Sit with your regional. Also, you can do this with your office managers, especially in DSOs, because the more your office managers understand the PL and what it should look like, that can help. So it's really just dial into that. tell them what a healthy payroll like payroll should be sitting at less than 30% of our total collections every month. Our lab should be at less than 9% of our total collections every month, supplies 5%, and just go down the list with them so they can see is this good or is this bad?   I love HDA accounting. I think they do a great job. Profy is another one. I'd Bailey is another one. those are just some some accounting companies. I like when they send the P and L because it's red and green. Like HDA is like you get a thumbs up or you get a thumbs down. Makes it a little bit easier. But then asking your regional or your managers to say, Hey, when you look at this P N L, what do you see that's going really, really well? And what do you see are some of the areas that might be trouble areas and why? Because I feel like when you can start to almost   quiz them and role play with them and have more of a collaboration with them, they start reading that PL and figuring it out rather than you always telling them. But like Britt said, you've got to take the time and invest with them. That way they can look at a PNL. I know Shelbi's been doing RPLs. She sends it to me every week and finally I said, Shelbs, what do you see on this? And that was the first time she'd really looked at it. Sha I just had an assignment for her to send them to me every week, which she does great. But then I started asking her to look at them and then we start diving into it and looking at different numbers.   And it's crazy how when you just spend a little bit of time, people can really start to find things that you as the owner might even be missing. And then they can take the accountability and the ownership of it. But just realize like it is a completely foreign language for these poor people. Let's not forget to train them and educate them so they can be set up for success.   speaker-1 (17:38) Mm-hmm, for sure. And I think also when it comes down to it, when you start looking at some of these numbers and you haven't looked at it before, so even office managers, when they look at it and they haven't seen it or regionals, they're gonna start to understand and like it it's fun in in a way to see their eyes kind of open to like, I understand why like I really want to be able to hire an additional team member, but here's where we are, so it makes sense now why now's not the time to hire.   And we need to work on some other things so we can afford to hire another team.   speaker-0 (18:10) Exactly. And then you're no longer as the business owner, the bad guy or the good guy. When your regional says, Hey, I want to hire, you say, Prime, can we afford this? What does the PNL say? And they then are the ones who are answering the question rather than you being like giving the green light or giving the thumbs down. And then they are more again a partner with you. Britt, as a regional, and I'll give my insights of how it felt for me, how does that make you feel when you can as a regional start making those business decisions and truly be like a trusted   side partner where you're like really, really informed in the business. How does that make you as the regional manager, you as the manager, the practice like, what do you feel like when you feel that competent reading PNLs and understanding the business?   speaker-1 (18:54) I loved it. I loved it for one of the biggest reasons is because I'm in a practice, especially as OM, like I'm in a practice every day and can see what I have and what I need and what's actually going on like as close to the ground as possible. So when it's something like this, we're like driving numbers in a certain direction, I'm like, all right, I can see multiple things kind of in the puzzle that I can start to manipulate or impact.   to be able to drive those numbers, drive the results, or if it's like, hey, we want to get new technology, what do we need to do to get there? Great, we want another ITero. Here's a plan of how we can afford to get that new piece of equipment.   speaker-0 (19:33) Exactly. And it it feels so good. Like for me, it just felt like the I like to win. And I felt like it was finally my my roadmap to being able to be successful and and hit the goals that my doctor had, but literally have like the optics, if you will, for success. And so I think it's super paramount of teaching your team members and empowering them. Like even as team members, I know Tiff, Britt, Shelbi, like our whole team. They'll look like, Kiera, can we actually afford that?   That is like one of the happiest days of all of my business time because I'm like, they're actually looking to see, can we afford that? Can we do this? Does this make sense for the business? And it's not me just carrying the weight anymore. So I feel like it's really important for for offices, especially DSOs. Like I would say if we were to recap this and Britt, it's fun that you just came in off of DSO. So I thought, like, hey, let's dive into DSO success of one.   Like set up your KPIs. Make sure you've got all practices reporting in and they understand and like truly spend the time to teach your office managers at each practice what those KPIs need to look like, how to get the information, and then have a set cadence where they're really reporting in with you. The next thing is like build up that leadership team within the DSO of the strong people that can actually make the decisions and they have the autonomy and the authority to execute. And then third, train the team members to really look at these PL so they understand.   Before all that we did talk about like having the standardization of culture, the name, making sure those things run the same. And I feel like within DSOs, you are way, way, way more needed to be structured and to over-communicate than you are in solo or even secondary practices. Like the type of communication, the amount of communication, the amount of I would say like rules with massive air quotes. Like people just need to know the guidelines of what we can or can't do, and they've gotta be black and white. That's kind of like my recap of everything we talked about, Britt.   Of like DSO success, but is there anything I may have missed or things you want to just highlight on your own that you feel really really makes or breaks a DSO from your perspective?   speaker-1 (21:35) I think those are all key pieces that ultimately build to like there's no one or three people at the top that depending on how big you get, right? They can be responsible for making all decisions. So a lot of it is making sure you've got that flywheel of culture going to where you don't have to put so much effort into controlling it. And then you've got key people and support so that the people kinda at the top or the the OGs, the originals who kind of started it.   that you build in support for yourself and you're not having having to make all of those decisions for everybody.   speaker-0 (22:10) Think that that's actually one of the like key pieces that I hadn't even realized is this allows more freedom of those visionaries to go and make decisions, but have a team that can also make decisions and think like that visionary more so. So, like, and to be honest, a lot of people get excited about going and buying the practices that they forget. You need to have that foundation, those guidelines, those ways for people to make decisions without the OGs being there to answer everything. And if you don't have that in play.   Get that in play, hire a coach. That's what we do. We literally help offices get these things set up, things they might not have thought about. Be that mediator who can really remind, show, guide people to get things done. But make sure you have that in play as you're building, but or I would truly suggest before you do it. However, I know all visionaries just go and they buy the practice and then figure it out. So like it's cool. We we know you, we see you, but really getting that ability for people to be it have autonomy.   And so that way the owners don't have to always be making every decision. I think one just empowers everyone and two, it's an easier flowing process for sure.   speaker-1 (23:16) Mm. Absolutely.   speaker-0 (23:17) So guys, there you go. There's Road Warrior Britt coming back in off of a DSO week. We love our DSO practices. But really, I just thought it'd be fun for us to highlight today of what are some of the the key sticks success for DSOs. And Britt, I know you came from a very successful DSO before joining Dental A Team. And so I feel like you just have such a knack for it. And offices who work with you, shoot. You got some of the most raving reviews from the offices you were with. Like I got personal text messages from those doctors thanking you for being there and how much   you're able to clarify. So Britt, kudos to you. it's fun to have you share on DSO secrets and success.   speaker-1 (23:53) Thanks. I do love my D SOs.   speaker-0 (23:56) They're just fun. Britt and I giggle were like, we loved our our new practices, but man, those DSOs, they're like puzzles for us to have to try and figure out, put together. Britt and I will collaborate on these all the time, and it's so fun for those DSOs.   Kiera Dent (24:12) I hope you all loved today's episode as much as I did. It is crazy to think that this many episodes have been released since we started the Dental A Team Podcast. And I started looking to say, my goodness, our listeners need to be reminded of some of the things they may have learned a year ago or two years ago or five years ago, because so many things in our practices weren't relevant back then when we heard them, but they are relevant today. And I would be doing you a huge disservice if I didn't re-release some of these episodes for you to remember, to refine.   to optimize and really truly if you ever need a topic or you're like, my gosh, I wonder if the Dental A Team has anything like this, go onto our website, TheDentalATeam.com, click on our podcast tab and you can literally search any topic. So whether it's overhead or hiring or firing or team morale or engagement or case acceptance or hygiene or associate onboarding or whatever it is, we have so many episodes for you. And so I am going to intentionally be   re-releasing some of the top best episodes for you, pulling back some of the ones that I needed to remember, some of the things that I feel for you to really, really relearn right now and to re-remember, or if it's the first time, welcome. I'm so happy you're listening to it, but I hope you truly enjoyed today's episode. I hope that you share this with somebody. I hope that you go and implement today because we only have one day. We only get today. And so making today the best that it possibly can be. If we can help you in any way, shape or form, reach out Hello@TheDentalATeam.com.   And as always, thanks for listening and we'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.  

Your brain already ran its program this morning — before your feet hit the floor. That's not a metaphor. Neuroscience shows your brain boots up yesterday's emotional patterns automatically, the same way an AI model repeats whatever it was trained on. So here's the real question: who's writing the code today — you, or the world? In the next few minutes, I'm going to show you why a two-word gratitude practice is the single most powerful override for your morning routine — and why it's not sentimental; it's strategic. Makes sense? Good. Let's get into it.     Follow Dr. JC Doornick and the Makes Sense Academy:► Makes Sense Substack - https://drjcdoornick.substack.com ► Instagram: / drjcdoornick ► Substack: / drjcdoornick ►Facebook:  / makessensepodcast ►YouTube:  / drjcdoornick     MAKES SENSE PODCAST Welcome to the Makes Sense with Dr. JC Doornick Podcast. This podcast explores topics that expand human consciousness and enhance performance. On the Makes Sense Podcast, we acknowledge that it's who you are that determines how well what you do works, and that perception is subjective and an acquired taste. When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at begin to change. Welcome to the uprising of the sleepwalking masses. Welcome to the Makes Sense with Dr. JC Doornick Podcast.   SUBSCRIBE/RATE/REVIEW & SHARE our new podcast. FOLLOW Podcast: You will find a "Follow" button in the top right. This will enable the podcast software to alert you when a new episode launches each week. Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/makes-sense-with-dr-jc-doornick/id1730954168 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1WHfKWDDReMtrGFz4kkZs9?si=003780ca147c4aec   Podcast Affiliates: Kwik Learning: Many people ask me where I get all these topics, which I've been covering for almost 15 years. I have learned to read nearly four times faster and retain information 10 times better with Kwik Learning. Learn how to learn and earn with Jim Kwik. Get his program at a special discount here: https://jimkwik.com/dragon OUR SPONSORS: Operly - Take Back Control of Your Work Day and Get Rid of All Your AI Apps - Welcome to the new world of Time Freedom and Unlimited Scaling and Success with Operly -  https://go.getoperly.ai/video?ref=jean-claude-claude-d-2a95 Blue Blinds Bakery - Handcrafted with all-natural ingredients - www.blueblindsbakery.com   0:00 - Teaser 0:23 - Intro 1:30 - GREAT MORNING - Cancer Check In 5:56 - Not All Storms Come To Disrupt Your Life 7:53 - Gratitude is the Launch Pad For Your Great Day 8:21 - The Often Misunderstood Topic of Gratitude 10:25 - AI vs HI 12:15 - Is yesterday's program sufficient for today's plans? 13:11 - Your brain is always learning about you. 16:59 - That which we consume we assume 18:37 - We become efficient with being ourselves 22:00 - Your Brain is like a Search Engine 25:41 - The Two Most Important Words I Use Every Day 30:45 - Toxic Positivity 31:36 - Whole-O-Graphic Vision 40:23 - The Four Stages of Competence 45:48 - Close   Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

I try to plan my podcasts in such a way that it looks like I know what I'm doing. This is one such episode that may give you pause for thought.... I'd made a list of albums I wanted to discuss this year. Since that list was written on a scrappy piece of paper and not in a spreadsheet saved on my laptop....well you can guess what happened to it. The I decided to just wing it with an episode of three short form ramblings about albums I wasn't sure I could spend a whole episode on. One recorded segment in, I decided on a new album I wanted to discuss with a partner and talk long form. So, common sense would say, do one or the other....I don't have common sense. Welcome to episode 195 of Love That Album. I devote the first part of the show to an incredible album I only discovered in January of this year. It's a 2011 release on the great New Zealand label, Flying Nun from a composer and musician new to me called Grayson Gilmour. The album is called No Constellation, and it's a revelation. Gilmour is not only a brilliant composer, but listening to this and subsequent albums, he's an incredible arranger. How do I describe this album in a few words? It's as if Brian Wilson circa Smile had written math rock. Makes sense? Of course not....but I do my best to put the music in context and convince you that you need this LP in your life. In the second part of the show, I am joined once again by music journalist Jeff Jenkins to discuss the new compilation on the recently revived Popboomerang label, Shake Yer Popboomerang 4. The label was started a quarter of a century ago (!!!) by Melbourne pop obsessive Scott Thurling. He's been a champion of the local pop scene and has released over a hundred albums by great Australian pop bands. He's released many fine albums, but his compilations in particular are amazing. He's got a knack for convincing bands to provide him (mostly) with unreleased cuts. We're not talking bottom of the barrel – he always gets top notch songs – then he curates them into collections that flow really well, despite many of the acts being quite diverse. Scott doesn't always feel comfortable behind the mic (although I did coax him for an earlier episode of LTA), but Jeff being a fellow Popboomerang fan was very keen to join me in discussing this latest collection as well as a history of the label. There is a common link between the two albums. I love 'em both, and they're both on important independent labels. Have at it. The New Zealand music website I mention in the show and highly recommend is Audioculture.co.nz. My huge thanks to JJ for his great conversation and enthusiasm. We'll hear from him again at the year end favourites episode. You can find either of these great albums on Bandcamp. If you enjoy the show, please consider giving us a favourable review on whatever podcast platform you listen on and let your friends know that our show exists. If you don't enjoy the show, tell your adversaries to tune in. I don't care who listens..... Love That Album is proudly part of the Pantheon Network of music podcasts. Check out all the other wonderful shows at http://pantheonpodcasts.com You can send me feedback at rrrkitchen@yahoo.com.au (written or mp3 voicemail) or join the Facebook group at http://www.facebook.com/groups/lovethatalbum You can download the show by searching for Love That Album on whatever podcast app you favour (except Spotify). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

According to Lutheran Service Book, the commemoration of St. Monica falls on August 27 each year. To give you enough time to source ingredients for Erin's delicious St. Monica Buns, we're sharing this episode from August 2024 to inspire your ideas for a St. Monica Day Party! Who exactly is St. Monica? How does one celebrate her? To answer these questions (and more), the Party Planning Committee is back!   Monica, mother of St. Augustine of Hippo, is remembered today as an example of faith, patience, and godliness in the face of complicated family relationships.   In this episode, Rachel briefly tells Monica's inspiring life story before suggesting an appropriate menu and party plan befitting the saint's fabled austerity — featuring vegetable porridge, bread, water, loud weeping, and all-night prayer vigils. Thankfully, Erin and Sarah intervene with a much more festive set of ideas, including Erin's original recipe for St. Monica buns (see below) and Sarah's home-grown party games: pin the collect on the saint, “Aqueducts and Leviathans” (a fun “Shoots and Ladders” spinoff), and, of course, a hymn sing. St. Monica's Buns Recipe by Erin Alter Makes 12 buns (can easily be doubled)  Dough  ½ c (117 ml) milk, any kind, lightly warmed 1 ¼ t (½ packet) instant yeast  2 T (25 g) granulated sugar  ¾ t salt   1 large egg  4 T (57 g) butter, softened  1 ¾ c (227 g) flour   Filling  3 T packed brown sugar  ¼- ½ t cinnamon  Scant 1/8 t ground ginger  Good pinch of salt  2 peaches, pitted and diced   Garnish  Milk  Turbinado sugar  Directions Whisk together warm milk, yeast, sugar, and salt a large bowl. Whisk in eggs. Add softened butter, chunked up. Use Danish dough whisk to incorporate flour. Stir vigorously for the duration of one of your favorite songs (ideally 4-6 minutes; the song will help it go faster). The dough will be smooth but still extremely sticky. This is proper.   Transfer the whole mess into an oiled bowl big enough to hold it when doubled. Cover tightly with plastic wrap, and from here there are two possible schedules:  Method 1: Let the dough rise at room temperature until it just shy of doubles, about 1 1/2 to 2 hours. Transfer dough to the fridge to chill for at least 1 hour and up to 2 days. It is impossible to work with this dough when still at room temperature; don't even try.  Method 2: Let the dough rise in the fridge a minimum of 8 hours, and up to 2 days. It will be just about doubled when it comes out.  From this point, you are now back on the same track, regardless of your rising method. Preheat the oven to 350°. Grease a muffin tin. Combine brown sugar, spices, and salt. Mix in the diced peaches. Set aside to get juicy.  On a well-floured counter, divide the dough in quarters, and then divide each quarter into 3 pieces, so you have 12 pieces of dough.   Roll each piece of dough into a ball. On a well-floured counter, use a rolling pin to flatten it out into a circle, ~ 4 inches wide. Add flour as needed to keep it from sticking. Work fairly quickly, so the dough doesn't get too warm.   Holding the circle of dough in your palm, add two heaping spoonful's of the peaches to the center. Gather the edges of the dough up around the sides, forming a little nest. Nestle the nest into the muffin tin and repeat. If you have extra peaches at the end, you can see if there are any buns that you could scoop a little more into.   Brush the dough edges with a little milk and sprinkle with turbinado sugar.  Bake for 16-18 minutes, until golden brown and bubbly. Let cool at least 5 minutes before removing from the muffin tin and serving.  Optional: Serve with crème fraiche.    Note: If you add extra peaches to a bun, don't let the peaches heap up over the dough much at all. If you do, they will probably overflow in the oven and you will have delicious buns that are very, very sticky to eat and an extremely messy pan to clean. And non-overflowed buns are just as delicious, and much more pleasant to eat.     Crème Fraiche  Combine 1 c heavy whipping cream with 1 heaping T sour cream in a container with a tight fitting lid. Shake for 15 seconds (don't turn this to butter!). Leave it on the counter for 24 hours, covered. Stir it 2-3 times during that time. It will become thickened (similar to yogurt, but not nearly as thick as Greek yogurt) and delicious. Note: If your kitchen is too cold, it won't thicken.   Resources referenced:  Accounts of St. Monica:  St Monica – The Patron Saint of Alcoholics & Mothers! (bishoysblog.com)  St. Monica – Saints & Angels – Catholic Online  Saint Monica – Wikipedia  Recipe for Roman puls porridge:  Romans in Britain – Recipe for Puls Fabata (Fava bean porridge) (romanobritain.org)  Recipe for Roman bread:  How to make Roman bread: a Roman bread recipe (vita-romae.com)  Aqueducts and Leviathans! Want to play a fun game of Aqueducts and Leviathans? Download the PDF Aqueducts and Leviathans Board Game here! Connect with the Lutheran Ladies on social media in The Lutheran Ladies' Lounge Facebook discussion group (facebook.com/groups/LutheranLadiesLounge) and on Instagram @lutheranladieslounge. Follow Sarah (@hymnnerd), Rachel (@rachbomberger), and Erin (@erinaltered) on Instagram! Sign up for the Lutheran Ladies' Lounge monthly e-newsletter here, and email the Ladies at lutheranladies@kfuo.org.

In this episode, host Josh interviews Mina Elias, a seven-figure Amazon seller and founder of The Trivium Group. Mina shares advanced strategies for Amazon PPC, emphasizing the integration of advertising with product optimization and the importance of main images, pricing, and reviews in boosting conversions. He discusses using custom analytics software, My Real Profit, to track key metrics, and stresses the need for continuous testing. Mina also shares his favorite book, productivity tools, and business inspirations, and offers listeners a free Amazon PPC audit through his agency.Chapters:Introduction to Mina Elias (00:00:00)Host introduces Mina, his background in supplements, Amazon PPC, and his achievements in the industry.Statistical Analysis & Analytics Tools (00:01:01)Discussion on using Google Sheets and custom analytics software for tracking PPC and sales data.Custom Software: My Real Profit (00:03:01)Mina explains their custom-developed analytics tool, My Real Profit, for streamlined data analysis.Main Image Optimization Tips (00:04:00)Mina shares what makes main images effective for conversion and how to showcase value propositions.Price Testing Insights (00:05:55)Analysis of how price changes can impact conversion rates and the importance of continuous testing.Three Key Takeaways for Amazon Sellers (00:07:49)Host summarizes actionable tips: integrate PPC with product optimization, optimize main images, and always test pricing.Centralized Analytics & Continuous Testing (00:10:30)Mina emphasizes the importance of a unified dashboard and ongoing, one-at-a-time testing.Most Influential Book: Who Not How (00:11:38)Mina discusses the impact of the book "Who Not How" on his mindset and business approach.Favorite Productivity Tool: Monday.com (00:13:09)Mina highlights Monday.com as a game-changing project and task management tool.Most Admired Figure: Grant Cardone (00:14:05)Mina explains why he admires Grant Cardone and lessons learned from his business approach.How to Connect & Free Audit Offer (00:15:32)Mina shares how listeners can reach him, learn more, and get a free Amazon PPC audit.Links and Mentions:Tools and Software  "Google Sheets": "00:01:28"  "Custom Analytics Software": "00:03:01"  "PickFu": "00:08:55"  "Monday.com": "00:13:09"  "Zapier": "00:13:25"  Websites  "Trivium Group (triviumco.com)": "00:15:32"  Books  "Who Not How by Dan Sullivan": "00:11:47"  "Be Obsessed or Be Average by Grant Cardone": "00:14:19"  Influential Figures  "Grant Cardone": "00:14:05"  Social Media  "Instagram (@theminaelias)": "00:15:32"  "LinkedIn (Mina Elias)": "00:15:32"Transcript:Josh 00:00:00  Today I'm super excited to introduce you all to Mina. Mina is a multiple seven figure seller in the supplement industry. He's an investor, Amazon PPC expert, and the founder of the Tribune Group, an Amazon advertising agency. Mina excels at developing cutting edge supplements for different target audiences and combines his passion for supplements. His background in chemical engineering and chemistry, and his expertise in PPC to crush the competition on Amazon. He has spoken on every major stage in the Amazon industry, consulted over 400 brands, consulted three aggregators worth 1.2 billion combined, and has been on over 100 Amazon and e-commerce podcasts. To share his knowledge and continues to be a leader innovating the Amazon advertising space. His goal is to change the way people perceive Amazon PPC and empower them to take back, control and dominate their ads. So with that introduction, welcome to the show, Mina.Mina 00:00:59  Josh, thank you for having me. I'm excited man.Josh 00:01:01  Mina I'm also curious. I mean, you're talking about statistical analysis now, right? And not many Amazon sellers are known for their statistical analysis skills.Josh 00:01:11  where, like, are you doing all of this and just, you know, spreadsheets or Google Sheets or are you do you have a software that's helping, you know, run these numbers and statistically prove that this was a, you know, conclusive test? Yes. Swap it out.Mina 00:01:28  No, we we don't have any software. This is all standard. you know, I mean, this is all, like Google Sheets and stuff like that. We do have a software that. But all that software does is analytics software, and it shows us our PPC spend, our PPC sales, our total sales sessions, cost per session, cook rate, conversion rate, cost per click, and profit. Day by day across all of our different products. So having that view is really useful because you're no longer looking. you know, I was just talking to someone earlier, and, they use like a PVC software and stuff like that. And I'm like, show me how you're looking at things. And they're like really looking at like trends of conversion and trends of impressions.Mina 00:02:11  And I'm like, it's so hard for you to, you know, make a decision based on like looking looking at the data like that. So I think that's where our analytics software helps a lot is we can see the week on week changes and I can see, okay, the ad spend changed like increased by 10%. What happened to my sessions? What happened to my cost per session? What happened to my click through rate or my peak spend was the same week over week. I changed my main image. What happened to my click through rate week over week? Or like okay, here's all of the click through rates. Document them, here's all the sessions, document them, and then go look at like the you know, Google Sheets just do equals average and equals STD dev which is standard deviation. And then it gives you the average and standard deviation is.Josh 00:02:54  I love that. What software tool are you using to gather that data at a baseline right. On a daily basis.Mina 00:03:01  That's my real profit.Mina 00:03:02  So we did we did custom development. So if you want if you want to see our exact analytics, you know you can do it through us. They can sell it to you. It's because it's IP. But my real profit is amazing. And you know because of our size, like, you know, we have 130 something brands. So we decided to just custom develop everything that is like the most streamlined for us to be able to like see the data and very quickly take action.Josh 00:03:28  Yeah, yeah. Makes a lot of sense. I love that. All right, Mina, we've got just a few minutes left, but because you've statistically seen that the main image and price are your biggest needle movers for conversion rate. I'm curious if you can give us just some quick tips in terms of what type of images have you seen performing better than others, and is there kind of a general rule of thumb that you could point towards, although it may be kind of product specific, but any general rules of thumb of what continues to win?Mina 00:04:00  Yeah.Mina 00:04:00  Okay. I also want to say, like, I know I talked about the biggest needle movers. reviews. If you go from a four star to four and a half star, that's a massive needle mover, too. you know, obviously, if you're going from like 300 to 500 to 700 review, it's like a slow burn. But if you go from ...

THIS IS A PREVIEW. FOR THE FULL EPISODE, GO TO Patreon.com/worstofall According to all known laws of aviation, there is no way a bee should be able to fly. Media Referenced in this Episode: Bee Movie. Dir. Simon J. Smith and Steve Hickner. 2007. “A Complete History of Bee Movie's Many, Many Memes" by Paris Martineau. New York Magazine. November 2nd, 2017. “Bee Movie: A Seinfeldian Society” by Joe Strike. Animation World. November 2nd, 2007. “How Bee Movie Won 2016” by Laura Bradley. Vanity Fair. December 30th, 2016. TWOAPW theme by Brendan Dalton: Patreon // brendan-dalton.com // brendandalton.bandcamp.com Interstitial: “A Series of Voicemails Left on Jerry Seinfeld's Answering Machine by one Stephen Sondheim, Composer of Musical Theater and Lover of Bees” // Written by A.J. Ditty and Brian Alford // feat. David Armstrong as “Stephen Sondheim” and Brian Alford as “Jerry” Episode edited by Brian Alford. Interstitial edited by A.J. Ditty. Produced by Josh Boerman, A.J. Ditty, and Brian Alford. This podcast was recorded under a SAG-AFTRA Agreement. Its wings are too small to get its fat little body off the ground. The bee, of course, flies anyway because bees don't care what humans think is impossible. Yellow, black. Yellow, black. Yellow, black. Yellow, black. Ooh, black and yellow! Let's shake it up a little. Barry! Breakfast is ready! Coming! Hang on a second. Hello? - Barry? - Adam? - Can you believe this is happening? - I can't. I'll pick you up. Looking sharp. Use the stairs. Your father paid good money for those. Sorry. I'm excited. Here's the graduate. We're very proud of you, son. A perfect report card, all B's. Very proud. Ma! I got a thing going here. - You got lint on your fuzz. - Ow! That's me! - Wave to us! We'll be in row 118,000. - Bye! Barry, I told you, stop flying in the house! - Hey, Adam. - Hey, Barry. - Is that fuzz gel? - A little. Special day, graduation. Never thought I'd make it. Three days grade school, three days high school. Those were awkward. Three days college. I'm glad I took a day and hitchhiked around the hive. You did come back different. - Hi, Barry. - Artie, growing a mustache? Looks good. - Hear about Frankie? - Yeah. - You going to the funeral? - No, I'm not going. Everybody knows, sting someone, you die. Don't waste it on a squirrel. Such a hothead. I guess he could have just gotten out of the way. I love this incorporating an amusement park into our day. That's why we don't need vacations. Boy, quite a bit of pomp… under the circumstances. - Well, Adam, today we are men. - We are! - Bee-men. - Amen! Hallelujah! Students, faculty, distinguished bees, please welcome Dean Buzzwell. Welcome, New Hive City graduating class of… …9:15. That concludes our ceremonies. And begins your career at Honex Industries! Will we pick our job today? I heard it's just orientation. Heads up! Here we go. Keep your hands and antennas inside the tram at all times. - Wonder what it'll be like? - A little scary. Welcome to Honex, a division of Honesco and a part of the Hexagon Group. This is it! Wow. Wow. We know that you, as a bee, have worked your whole life to get to the point where you can work for your whole life. Honey begins when our valiant Pollen Jocks bring the nectar to the hive. Our top-secret formula is automatically color-corrected, scent-adjusted and bubble-contoured into this soothing sweet syrup with its distinctive golden glow you know as… Honey! - That girl was hot. - She's my cousin! - She is? - Yes, we're all cousins. - Right. You're right. - At Honex, we constantly strive to improve every aspect of bee existence. These bees are stress-testing a new helmet technology. - What do you think he makes? - Not enough. Here we have our latest advancement, the Krelman. - What does that do? - Oatches that little strand of honey that hangs after you pour it. Saves us millions. Oan anyone work on the Krelman? Of course. Most bee jobs are small ones. But bees know that every small job, if it's done well, means a lot. But choose carefully because you'll stay in the job you pick for the rest of your life. The same job the rest of your life? I didn't know that. What's the difference? You'll be happy to know that bees, as a species, haven't had one day off in 27 million years. So you'll just work us to death? We'll sure try. Wow! That blew my mind! “What's the difference?” How can you say that? One job forever? That's an insane choice to have to make. I'm relieved. Now we only have to make one decision in life. But, Adam, how could they never have told us that? Why would you question anything? We're bees. We're the most perfectly functioning society on Earth. You ever think maybe things work a little too well here? Like what? Give me one example. I don't know. But you know what I'm talking about. Please clear the gate. Royal Nectar Force on approach. Wait a second. Oheck it out. - Hey, those are Pollen Jocks! - Wow. I've never seen them this close. They know what it's like outside the hive. Yeah, but some don't come back. - Hey, Jocks! - Hi, Jocks! You guys did great! You're monsters! You're sky freaks! I love it! I love it! - I wonder where they were. - I don't know. Their day's not planned. Outside the hive, flying who knows where, doing who knows what. You can'tjust decide to be a Pollen Jock. You have to be bred for that. Right. Look. That's more pollen than you and I will see in a lifetime. It's just a status symbol. Bees make too much of it. Perhaps. Unless you're wearing it and the ladies see you wearing it. Those ladies? Aren't they our cousins too? Distant. Distant. Look at these two. - Oouple of Hive Harrys. - Let's have fun with them. It must be dangerous being a Pollen Jock. Yeah. Once a bear pinned me against a mushroom! He had a paw on my throat, and with the other, he was slapping me! - Oh, my! - I never thought I'd knock him out. What were you doing during this? Trying to alert the authorities. I can autograph that. A little gusty out there today, wasn't it, comrades? Yeah. Gusty. We're hitting a sunflower patch six miles from here tomorrow. - Six miles, huh? - Barry! A puddle jump for us, but maybe you're not up for it. - Maybe I am. - You are not! We're going 0900 at J-Gate. What do you think, buzzy-boy? Are you bee enough? I might be. It all depends on what 0900 means. Hey, Honex! Dad, you surprised me. You decide what you're interested in? - Well, there's a lot of choices. - But you only get one. Do you ever get bored doing the same job every day? Son, let me tell you about stirring. You grab that stick, and you just move it around, and you stir it around. You get yourself into a rhythm. It's a beautiful thing. You know, Dad, the more I think about it, maybe the honey field just isn't right for me. You were thinking of what, making balloon animals? That's a bad job for a guy with a stinger. Janet, your son's not sure he wants to go into honey! - Barry, you are so funny sometimes. - I'm not trying to be funny. You're not funny! You're going into honey. Our son, the stirrer! - You're gonna be a stirrer? - No one's listening to me! Wait till you see the sticks I have. I could say anything right now. I'm gonna get an ant tattoo! Let's open some honey and celebrate! Maybe I'll pierce my thorax. Shave my antennae. Shack up with a grasshopper. Get a gold tooth and call everybody “dawg”! I'm so proud. - We're starting work today! - Today's the day. Oome on! All the good jobs will be gone. Yeah, right. Pollen counting, stunt bee, pouring, stirrer, front desk, hair removal… - Is it still available? - Hang on. Two left! One of them's yours! Oongratulations! Step to the side. - What'd you get? - Picking crud out. Stellar! Wow! Oouple of newbies? Yes, sir! Our first day! We are ready! Make your choice. - You want to go first? - No, you go. Oh, my. What's available? Restroom attendant's open, not for the reason you think. - Any chance of getting the Krelman? - Sure, you're on. I'm sorry, the Krelman just closed out. Wax monkey's always open. The Krelman opened up again. What happened? A bee died. Makes an opening. See? He's dead. Another dead one. Deady. Deadified. Two more dead. Dead from the neck up. Dead from the neck down. That's life! Oh, this is so hard! Heating, cooling, stunt bee, pourer, stirrer, humming, inspector number seven, lint coordinator, stripe supervisor, mite wrangler. Barry, what do you think I should… Barry? Barry! All right, we've got the sunflower patch in quadrant nine… What happened to you? Where are you? - I'm going out. - Out? Out where? - Out there. - Oh, no! I have to, before I go to work for the rest of my life. You're gonna die! You're crazy! Hello? Another call coming in. If anyone's feeling brave, there's a Korean deli on 83rd that gets their roses today. Hey, guys. - Look at that. - Isn't that the kid we saw yesterday? Hold it, son, flight deck's restricted. It's OK, Lou. We're gonna take him up. Really? Feeling lucky, are you? Sign here, here. Just initial that. - Thank you. - OK. You got a rain advisory today, and as you all know, bees cannot fly in rain. So be careful. As always, watch your brooms, hockey sticks, dogs, birds, bears and bats. Also, I got a couple of reports of root beer being poured on us. Murphy's in a home because of it, babbling like a cicada! - That's awful. - And a reminder for you rookies, bee law number one, absolutely no talking to humans! All right, launch positions! Buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz! Buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz! Buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz! Black and yellow! Hello! You ready for this, hot shot? Yeah. Yeah, bring it on. Wind, check. - Antennae, check. - Nectar pack, check. - Wings, check. - Stinger, check. Scared out of my shorts, check. OK, ladies, let's move it out! Pound those petunias, you striped stem-suckers! All of you, drain those flowers! Wow! I'm out! I can't believe I'm out! So blue. I feel so fast and free! Box kite! Wow! Flowers! This is Blue Leader. We have roses visual. Bring it around 30 degrees and hold. Roses! 30 degrees, roger. Bringing it around. Stand to the side, kid. It's got a bit of a kick. That is one nectar collector! - Ever see pollination up close? - No, sir. I pick up some pollen here, sprinkle it over here. Maybe a dash over there, a pinch on that one. See that? It's a little bit of magic. That's amazing. Why do we do that? That's pollen power. More pollen, more flowers, more nectar, more honey for us. Cool. I'm picking up a lot of bright yellow. Oould be daisies. Don't we need those? Oopy that visual. Wait. One of these flowers seems to be on the move. Say again? You're reporting a moving flower? Affirmative. That was on the line! This is the coolest. What is it? I don't know, but I'm loving this color. It smells good. Not like a flower, but I like it. Yeah, fuzzy. Ohemical-y. Oareful, guys. It's a little grabby. My sweet lord of bees! Oandy-brain, get off there! Problem! - Guys! - This could be bad. Affirmative. Very close. Gonna hurt. Mama's little boy. You are way out of position, rookie! Ooming in at you like a missile! Help me! I don't think these are flowers. - Should we tell him? - I think he knows. What is this?! Match point! You can start packing up, honey, because you're about to eat it! Yowser! Gross. There's a bee in the car! - Do something! - I'm driving! - Hi, bee. - He's back here! He's going to sting me! Nobody move. If you don't move, he won't sting you. Freeze! He blinked! Spray him, Granny! What are you doing?! Wow… the tension level out here is unbelievable. I gotta get home. Oan't fly in rain. Oan't fly in rain. Oan't fly in rain. Mayday! Mayday! Bee going down! Ken, could you close the window please? Ken, could you close the window please? Oheck out my new resume. I made it into a fold-out brochure. You see? Folds out. Oh, no. More humans. I don't need this. What was that? Maybe this time. This time. This time. This time! This time! This… Drapes! That is diabolical. It's fantastic. It's got all my special skills, even my top-ten favorite movies. What's number one? Star Wars? Nah, I don't go for that… …kind of stuff. No wonder we shouldn't talk to them. They're out of their minds. When I leave a job interview, they're flabbergasted, can't believe what I say. There's the sun. Maybe that's a way out. I don't remember the sun having a big 75 on it. I predicted global warming. I could feel it getting hotter. At first I thought it was just me. Wait! Stop! Bee! Stand back. These are winter boots. Wait! Don't kill him! You know I'm allergic to them! This thing could kill me! Why does his life have less value than yours? Why does his life have any less value than mine? Is that your statement? I'm just saying all life has value. You don't know what he's capable of feeling. My brochure! There you go, little guy. I'm not scared of him. It's an allergic thing. Put that on your resume brochure. My whole face could puff up. Make it one of your special skills. Knocking someone out is also a special skill. Right. Bye, Vanessa. Thanks. - Vanessa, next week? Yogurt night? - Sure, Ken. You know, whatever. - You could put carob chips on there. - Bye. - Supposed to be less calories. - Bye. I gotta say something. She saved my life. I gotta say something. All right, here it goes. Nah. What would I say? I could really get in trouble. It's a bee law. You're not supposed to talk to a human. I can't believe I'm doing this. I've got to. Oh, I can't do it. Oome on! No. Yes. No. Do it. I can't. How should I start it? “You like jazz?” No, that's no good. Here she comes! Speak, you fool! Hi! I'm sorry. - You're talking. - Yes, I know. You're talking! I'm so sorry. No, it's OK. It's fine. I know I'm dreaming. But I don't recall going to bed. Well, I'm sure this is very disconcerting. This is a bit of a surprise to me. I mean, you're a bee! I am. And I'm not supposed to be doing this, but they were all trying to kill me. And if it wasn't for you… I had to thank you. It's just how I was raised. That was a little weird. - I'm talking with a bee. - Yeah. I'm talking to a bee. And the bee is talking to me! I just want to say I'm grateful. I'll leave now. - Wait! How did you learn to do that? - What? The talking thing. Same way you did, I guess. “Mama, Dada, honey.” You pick it up. - That's very funny. - Yeah. Bees are funny. If we didn't laugh, we'd cry with what we have to deal with. Anyway… Oan I… …get you something? - Like what? I don't know. I mean… I don't know. Ooffee? I don't want to put you out. It's no trouble. It takes two minutes. - It's just coffee. - I hate to impose. - Don't be ridiculous! - Actually, I would love a cup. Hey, you want rum cake? - I shouldn't. - Have some. - No, I can't. - Oome on! I'm trying to lose a couple micrograms. - Where? - These stripes don't help. You look great! I don't know if you know anything about fashion. Are you all right? No. He's making the tie in the cab as they're flying up Madison. He finally gets there. He runs up the steps into the church. The wedding is on. And he says, “Watermelon? I thought you said Guatemalan. Why would I marry a watermelon?” Is that a bee joke? That's the kind of stuff we do. Yeah, different. So, what are you gonna do, Barry? About work? I don't know. I want to do my part for the hive, but I can't do it the way they want. I know how you feel. - You do? - Sure. My parents wanted me to be a lawyer or a doctor, but I wanted to be a florist. - Really? - My only interest is flowers. Our new queen was just elected with that same campaign slogan. Anyway, if you look… There's my hive right there. See it? You're in Sheep Meadow! Yes! I'm right off the Turtle Pond! No way! I know that area. I lost a toe ring there once. - Why do girls put rings on their toes? - Why not? - It's like putting a hat on your knee. - Maybe I'll try that. - You all right, ma'am? - Oh, yeah. Fine. Just having two cups of coffee! Anyway, this has been great. Thanks for the coffee. Yeah, it's no trouble. Sorry I couldn't finish it. If I did, I'd be up the rest of my life. Are you…? Oan I take a piece of this with me? Sure! Here, have a crumb. - Thanks! - Yeah. All right. Well, then… I guess I'll see you around. Or not. OK, Barry. And thank you so much again… for before. Oh, that? That was nothing. Well, not nothing, but… Anyway… This can't possibly work. He's all set to go. We may as well try it. OK, Dave, pull the chute. - Sounds amazing. - It was amazing! It was the scariest, happiest moment of my life. Humans! I can't believe you were with humans! Giant, scary humans! What were they like? Huge and crazy. They talk crazy. They eat crazy giant things. They drive crazy. - Do they try and kill you, like on TV? - Some of them. But some of them don't. - How'd you get back? - Poodle. You did it, and I'm glad. You saw whatever you wanted to see. You had your “experience.” Now you can pick out yourjob and be normal. - Well… - Well? Well, I met someone. You did? Was she Bee-ish? - A wasp?! Your parents will kill you! - No, no, no, not a wasp. - Spider? - I'm not attracted to spiders. I know it's the hottest thing, with the eight legs and all. I can't get by that face. So who is she? She's… human. No, no. That's a bee law. You wouldn't break a bee law. - Her name's Vanessa. - Oh, boy. She's so nice. And she's a florist! Oh, no! You're dating a human florist! We're not dating. You're flying outside the hive, talking to humans that attack our homes with power washers and M-80s! One-eighth a stick of dynamite! She saved my life! And she understands me. This is over! Eat this. This is not over! What was that? - They call it a crumb. - It was so stingin' stripey! And that's not what they eat. That's what falls off what they eat! - You know what a Oinnabon is? - No. It's bread and cinnamon and frosting. They heat it up… Sit down! …really hot! - Listen to me! We are not them! We're us. There's us and there's them! Yes, but who can deny the heart that is yearning? There's no yearning. Stop yearning. Listen to me! You have got to start thinking bee, my friend. Thinking bee! - Thinking bee. - Thinking bee. Thinking bee! Thinking bee! Thinking bee! Thinking bee! There he is. He's in the pool. You know what your problem is, Barry? I gotta start thinking bee? How much longer will this go on? It's been three days! Why aren't you working? I've got a lot of big life decisions to think about. What life? You have no life! You have no job. You're barely a bee! Would it kill you to make a little honey? Barry, come out. Your father's talking to you. Martin, would you talk to him? Barry, I'm talking to you! You coming? Got everything? All set! Go ahead. I'll catch up. Don't be too long. Watch this! Vanessa! - We're still here. - I told you not to yell at him. He doesn't respond to yelling! - Then why yell at me? - Because you don't listen! I'm not listening to this. Sorry, I've gotta go. - Where are you going? - I'm meeting a friend. A girl? Is this why you can't decide? Bye. I just hope she's Bee-ish. They have a huge parade of flowers every year in Pasadena? To be in the Tournament of Roses, that's every florist's dream! Up on a float, surrounded by flowers, crowds cheering. A tournament. Do the roses compete in athletic events? No. All right, I've got one. How come you don't fly everywhere? It's exhausting. Why don't you run everywhere? It's faster. Yeah, OK, I see, I see. All right, your turn. TiVo. You can just freeze live TV? That's insane! You don't have that? We have Hivo, but it's a disease. It's a horrible, horrible disease. Oh, my. Dumb bees! You must want to sting all those jerks. We try not to sting. It's usually fatal for us. So you have to watch your temper. Very carefully. You kick a wall, take a walk, write an angry letter and throw it out. Work through it like any emotion: Anger, jealousy, lust. Oh, my goodness! Are you OK? Yeah. - What is wrong with you?! - It's a bug. He's not bothering anybody. Get out of here, you creep! What was that? A Pic ‘N' Save circular? Yeah, it was. How did you know? It felt like about 10 pages. Seventy-five is pretty much our limit. You've really got that down to a science. - I lost a cousin to Italian Vogue. - I'll bet. What in the name of Mighty Hercules is this? How did this get here? Oute Bee, Golden Blossom, Ray Liotta Private Select? - Is he that actor? - I never heard of him. - Why is this here? - For people. We eat it. You don't have enough food of your own? - Well, yes. - How do you get it? - Bees make it. - I know who makes it! And it's hard to make it! There's heating, cooling, stirring. You need a whole Krelman thing! - It's organic. - It's our-ganic! It's just honey, Barry. Just what?! Bees don't know about this! This is stealing! A lot of stealing! You've taken our homes, schools, hospitals! This is all we have! And it's on sale?! I'm getting to the bottom of this. I'm getting to the bottom of all of this! Hey, Hector. - You almost done? - Almost. He is here. I sense it. Well, I guess I'll go home now and just leave this nice honey out, with no one around. You're busted, box boy! I knew I heard something. So you can talk! I can talk. And now you'll start talking! Where you getting the sweet stuff? Who's your supplier? I don't understand. I thought we were friends. The last thing we want to do is upset bees! You're too late! It's ours now! You, sir, have crossed the wrong sword! You, sir, will be lunch for my iguana, Ignacio! Where is the honey coming from? Tell me where! Honey Farms! It comes from Honey Farms! Orazy person! What horrible thing has happened here? These faces, they never knew what hit them. And now they're on the road to nowhere! Just keep still. What? You're not dead? Do I look dead? They will wipe anything that moves. Where you headed? To Honey Farms. I am onto something huge here. I'm going to Alaska. Moose blood, crazy stuff. Blows your head off! I'm going to Tacoma. - And you? - He really is dead. All right. Uh-oh! - What is that?! - Oh, no! - A wiper! Triple blade! - Triple blade? Jump on! It's your only chance, bee! Why does everything have to be so doggone clean?! How much do you people need to see?! Open your eyes! Stick your head out the window! From NPR News in Washington, I'm Carl Kasell. But don't kill no more bugs! - Bee! - Moose blood guy!! - You hear something? - Like what? Like tiny screaming. Turn off the radio. Whassup, bee boy? Hey, Blood. Just a row of honey jars, as far as the eye could see. Wow! I assume wherever this truck goes is where they're getting it. I mean, that honey's ours. - Bees hang tight. - We're all jammed in. It's a close community. Not us, man. We on our own. Every mosquito on his own. - What if you get in trouble? - You a mosquito, you in trouble. Nobody likes us. They just smack. See a mosquito, smack, smack! At least you're out in the world. You must meet girls. Mosquito girls try to trade up, get with a moth, dragonfly. Mosquito girl don't want no mosquito. You got to be kidding me! Mooseblood's about to leave the building! So long, bee! - Hey, guys! - Mooseblood! I knew I'd catch y'all down here. Did you bring your crazy straw? We throw it in jars, slap a label on it, and it's pretty much pure profit. What is this place? A bee's got a brain the size of a pinhead. They are pinheads! Pinhead. - Oheck out the new smoker. - Oh, sweet. That's the one you want. The Thomas 3000! Smoker? Ninety puffs a minute, semi-automatic. Twice the nicotine, all the tar. A couple breaths of this knocks them right out. They make the honey, and we make the money. “They make the honey, and we make the money”? Oh, my! What's going on? Are you OK? Yeah. It doesn't last too long. Do you know you're in a fake hive with fake walls? Our queen was moved here. We had no choice. This is your queen? That's a man in women's clothes! That's a drag queen! What is this? Oh, no! There's hundreds of them! Bee honey. Our honey is being brazenly stolen on a massive scale! This is worse than anything bears have done! I intend to do something. Oh, Barry, stop. Who told you humans are taking our honey? That's a rumor. Do these look like rumors? That's a conspiracy theory. These are obviously doctored photos. How did you get mixed up in this? He's been talking to humans. - What? - Talking to humans?! He has a human girlfriend. And they make out! Make out? Barry! We do not. - You wish you could. - Whose side are you on? The bees! I dated a cricket once in San Antonio. Those crazy legs kept me up all night. Barry, this is what you want to do with your life? I want to do it for all our lives. Nobody works harder than bees! Dad, I remember you coming home so overworked your hands were still stirring. You couldn't stop. I remember that. What right do they have to our honey? We live on two cups a year. They put it in lip balm for no reason whatsoever! Even if it's true, what can one bee do? Sting them where it really hurts. In the face! The eye! - That would hurt. - No. Up the nose? That's a killer. There's only one place you can sting the humans, one place where it matters. Hive at Five, the hive's only full-hour action news source. No more bee beards! With Bob Bumble at the anchor desk. Weather with Storm Stinger. Sports with Buzz Larvi. And Jeanette Chung. - Good evening. I'm Bob Bumble. - And I'm Jeanette Chung. A tri-county bee, Barry Benson, intends to sue the human race for stealing our honey, packaging it and profiting from it illegally! Tomorrow night on Bee Larry King, we'll have three former queens here in our studio, discussing their new book, Classy Ladies, out this week on Hexagon. Tonight we're talking to Barry Benson. Did you ever think, “I'm a kid from the hive. I can't do this”? Bees have never been afraid to change the world. What about Bee Columbus? Bee Gandhi? Bee Jesus? Where I'm from, we'd never sue humans. We were thinking of stickball or candy stores. How old are you? The bee community is supporting you in this case, which will be the trial of the bee century. You know, they have a Larry King in the human world too. It's a common name. Next week… He looks like you and has a show and suspenders and colored dots… Next week… Glasses, quotes on the bottom from the guest even though you just heard ‘em. Bear Week next week! They're scary, hairy and here live. Always leans forward, pointy shoulders, squinty eyes, very Jewish. In tennis, you attack at the point of weakness! It was my grandmother, Ken. She's 81. Honey, her backhand's a joke! I'm not gonna take advantage of that? Quiet, please. Actual work going on here. - Is that that same bee? - Yes, it is! I'm helping him sue the human race. - Hello. - Hello, bee. This is Ken. Yeah, I remember you. Timberland, size ten and a half. Vibram sole, I believe. Why does he talk again? Listen, you better go ‘cause we're really busy working. But it's our yogurt night! Bye-bye. Why is yogurt night so difficult?! You poor thing. You two have been at this for hours! Yes, and Adam here has been a huge help. - Frosting… - How many sugars? Just one. I try not to use the competition. So why are you helping me? Bees have good qualities. And it takes my mind off the shop. Instead of flowers, people are giving balloon bouquets now. Those are great, if you're three. And artificial flowers. - Oh, those just get me psychotic! - Yeah, me too. Bent stingers, pointless pollination. Bees must hate those fake things! Nothing worse than a daffodil that's had work done. Maybe this could make up for it a little bit. - This lawsuit's a pretty big deal. - I guess. You sure you want to go through with it? Am I sure? When I'm done with the humans, they won't be able to say, “Honey, I'm home,” without paying a royalty! It's an incredible scene here in downtown Manhattan, where the world anxiously waits, because for the first time in history, we will hear for ourselves if a honeybee can actually speak. What have we gotten into here, Barry? It's pretty big, isn't it? I can't believe how many humans don't work during the day. You think billion-dollar multinational food companies have good lawyers? Everybody needs to stay behind the barricade. - What's the matter? - I don't know, I just got a chill. Well, if it isn't the bee team. You boys work on this? All rise! The Honorable Judge Bumbleton presiding. All right. Case number 4475, Superior Court of New York, Barry Bee Benson v. The Honey Industry is now in session. Mr. Montgomery, you're representing the five food companies collectively? A privilege. Mr. Benson… you're representing all the bees of the world? I'm kidding. Yes, Your Honor, we're ready to proceed. Mr. Montgomery, your opening statement, please. Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, my grandmother was a simple woman. Born on a farm, she believed it was man's divine right to benefit from the bounty of nature God put before us. If we lived in the topsy-turvy world Mr. Benson imagines, just think of what would it mean. I would have to negotiate with the silkworm for the elastic in my britches! Talking bee! How do we know this isn't some sort of holographic motion-picture-capture Hollywood wizardry? They could be using laser beams! Robotics! Ventriloquism! Oloning! For all we know, he could be on steroids! Mr. Benson? Ladies and gentlemen, there's no trickery here. I'm just an ordinary bee. Honey's pretty important to me. It's important to all bees. We invented it! We make it. And we protect it with our lives. Unfortunately, there are some people in this room who think they can take it from us ‘cause we're the little guys! I'm hoping that, after this is all over, you'll see how, by taking our honey, you not only take everything we have but everything we are! I wish he'd dress like that all the time. So nice! Oall your first witness. So, Mr. Klauss Vanderhayden of Honey Farms, big company you have. I suppose so. I see you also own Honeyburton and Honron! Yes, they provide beekeepers for our farms. Beekeeper. I find that to be a very disturbing term. I don't imagine you employ any bee-free-ers, do you? - No. - I couldn't hear you. - No. - No. Because you don't free bees. You keep bees. Not only that, it seems you thought a bear would be an appropriate image for a jar of honey. They're very lovable creatures. Yogi Bear, Fozzie Bear, Build-A-Bear. You mean like this? Bears kill bees! How'd you like his head crashing through your living room?! Biting into your couch! Spitting out your throw pillows! OK, that's enough. Take him away. So, Mr. Sting, thank you for being here. Your name intrigues me. - Where have I heard it before? - I was with a band called The Police. But you've never been a police officer, have you? No, I haven't. No, you haven't. And so here we have yet another example of bee culture casually stolen by a human for nothing more than a prance-about stage name. Oh, please. Have you ever been stung, Mr. Sting? Because I'm feeling a little stung, Sting. Or should I say… Mr. Gordon M. Sumner! That's not his real name?! You idiots! Mr. Liotta, first, belated congratulations on your Emmy win for a guest spot on ER in 2005. Thank you. Thank you. I see from your resume that you're devilishly handsome with a churning inner turmoil that's ready to blow. I enjoy what I do. Is that a crime? Not yet it isn't. But is this what it's come to for you? Exploiting tiny, helpless bees so you don't have to rehearse your part and learn your lines, sir? Watch it, Benson! I could blow right now! This isn't a goodfella. This is a badfella! Why doesn't someone just step on this creep, and we can all go home?! - Order in this court! - You're all thinking it! Order! Order, I say! - Say it! - Mr. Liotta, please sit down! I think it was awfully nice of that bear to pitch in like that. I think the jury's on our side. Are we doing everything right, legally? I'm a florist. Right. Well, here's to a great team. To a great team! Well, hello. - Ken! - Hello. I didn't think you were coming. No, I was just late. I tried to call, but… the battery. I didn't want all this to go to waste, so I called Barry. Luckily, he was free. Oh, that was lucky. There's a little left. I could heat it up. Yeah, heat it up, sure, whatever. So I hear you're quite a tennis player. I'm not much for the game myself. The ball's a little grabby. That's where I usually sit. Right… there. Ken, Barry was looking at your resume, and he agreed with me that eating with chopsticks isn't really a special skill. You think I don't see what you're doing? I know how hard it is to find the rightjob. We have that in common. Do we? Bees have 100 percent employment, but we do jobs like taking the crud out. That's just what I was thinking about doing. Ken, I let Barry borrow your razor for his fuzz. I hope that was all right. I'm going to drain the old stinger. Yeah, you do that. Look at that. You know, I've just about had it with your little mind games. - What's that? - Italian Vogue. Mamma mia, that's a lot of pages. A lot of ads. Remember what Van said, why is your life more valuable than mine? Funny, I just can't seem to recall that! I think something stinks in here! I love the smell of flowers. How do you like the smell of flames?! Not as much. Water bug! Not taking sides! Ken, I'm wearing a Ohapstick hat! This is pathetic! I've got issues! Well, well, well, a royal flush! - You're bluffing. - Am I? Surf's up, dude! Poo water! That bowl is gnarly. Except for those dirty yellow rings! Kenneth! What are you doing?! You know, I don't even like honey! I don't eat it! We need to talk! He's just a little bee! And he happens to be the nicest bee I've met in a long time! Long time? What are you talking about?! Are there other bugs in your life? No, but there are other things bugging me in life. And you're one of them! Fine! Talking bees, no yogurt night… My nerves are fried from riding on this emotional roller coaster! Goodbye, Ken. And for your information, I prefer sugar-free, artificial sweeteners made by man! I'm sorry about all that. I know it's got an aftertaste! I like it! I always felt there was some kind of barrier between Ken and me. I couldn't overcome it. Oh, well. Are you OK for the trial? I believe Mr. Montgomery is about out of ideas. We would like to call Mr. Barry Benson Bee to the stand. Good idea! You can really see why he's considered one of the best lawyers… Yeah. Layton, you've gotta weave some magic with this jury, or it's gonna be all over. Don't worry. The only thing I have to do to turn this jury around is to remind them of what they don't like about bees. - You got the tweezers? - Are you allergic? Only to losing, son. Only to losing. Mr. Benson Bee, I'll ask you what I think we'd all like to know. What exactly is your relationship to that woman? We're friends. - Good friends? - Yes. How good? Do you live together? Wait a minute… Are you her little… …bedbug? I've seen a bee documentary or two. From what I understand, doesn't your queen give birth to all the bee children? - Yeah, but… - So those aren't your real parents! - Oh, Barry… - Yes, they are! Hold me back! You're an illegitimate bee, aren't you, Benson? He's denouncing bees! Don't y'all date your cousins? - Objection! - I'm going to pincushion this guy! Adam, don't! It's what he wants! Oh, I'm hit!! Oh, lordy, I am hit! Order! Order! The venom! The venom is coursing through my veins! I have been felled by a winged beast of destruction! You see? You can't treat them like equals! They're striped savages! Stinging's the only thing they know! It's their way! - Adam, stay with me. - I can't feel my legs. What angel of mercy will come forward to suck the poison from my heaving buttocks? I will have order in this court. Order! Order, please! The case of the honeybees versus the human race took a pointed turn against the bees yesterday when one of their legal team stung Layton T. Montgomery. - Hey, buddy. - Hey. - Is there much pain? - Yeah. I… I blew the whole case, didn't I? It doesn't matter. What matters is you're alive. You could have died. I'd be better off dead. Look at me. They got it from the cafeteria downstairs, in a tuna sandwich. Look, there's a little celery still on it. What was it like to sting someone? I can't explain it. It was all… All adrenaline and then… and then ecstasy! All right. You think it was all a trap? Of course. I'm sorry. I flew us right into this. What were we thinking? Look at us. We're just a couple of bugs in this world. What will the humans do to us if they win? I don't know. I hear they put the roaches in motels. That doesn't sound so bad. Adam, they check in, but they don't check out! Oh, my. Oould you get a nurse to close that window? - Why? - The smoke. Bees don't smoke. Right. Bees don't smoke. Bees don't smoke! But some bees are smoking. That's it! That's our case! It is? It's not over? Get dressed. I've gotta go somewhere. Get back to the court and stall. Stall any way you can. And assuming you've done step correctly, you're ready for the tub. Mr. Flayman. Yes? Yes, Your Honor! Where is the rest of your team? Well, Your Honor, it's interesting. Bees are trained to fly haphazardly, and as a result, we don't make very good time. I actually heard a funny story about… Your Honor, haven't these ridiculous bugs taken up enough of this court's valuable time? How much longer will we allow these absurd shenanigans to go on? They have presented no compelling evidence to support their charges against my clients, who run legitimate businesses. I move for a complete dismissal of this entire case! Mr. Flayman, I'm afraid I'm going to have to consider Mr. Montgomery's motion. But you can't! We have a terrific case. Where is your proof? Where is the evidence? Show me the smoking gun! Hold it, Your Honor! You want a smoking gun? Here is your smoking gun. What is that? It's a bee smoker! What, this? This harmless little contraption? This couldn't hurt a fly, let alone a bee. Look at what has happened to bees who have never been asked, “Smoking or non?” Is this what nature intended for us? To be forcibly addicted to smoke machines and man-made wooden slat work camps? Living out our lives as honey slaves to the white man? - What are we gonna do? - He's playing the species card. Ladies and gentlemen, please, free these bees! Free the bees! Free the bees! Free the bees! Free the bees! Free the bees! The court finds in favor of the bees! Vanessa, we won! I knew you could do it! High-five! Sorry. I'm OK! You know what this means? All the honey will finally belong to the bees. Now we won't have to work so hard all the time. This is an unholy perversion of the balance of nature, Benson. You'll regret this. Barry, how much honey is out there? All right. One at a time. Barry, who are you wearing? My sweater is Ralph Lauren, and I have no pants. - What if Montgomery's right? - What do you mean? We've been living the bee way a long time, 27 million years. Oongratulations on your victory. What will you demand as a settlement? First, we'll demand a complete shutdown of all bee work camps. Then we want back the honey that was ours to begin with, every last drop. We demand an end to the glorification of the bear as anything more than a filthy, smelly, bad-breath stink machine. We're all aware of what they do in the woods. Wait for my signal. Take him out. He'll have nauseous for a few hours, then he'll be fine. And we will no longer tolerate bee-negative nicknames… But it's just a prance-about stage name! …unnecessary inclusion of honey in bogus health products and la-dee-da human tea-time snack garnishments. Oan't breathe. Bring it in, boys! Hold it right there! Good. Tap it. Mr. Buzzwell, we just passed three cups, and there's gallons more coming! - I think we need to shut down! - Shut down? We've never shut down. Shut down honey production! Stop making honey! Turn your key, sir! What do we do now? Oannonball! We're shutting honey production! Mission abort. Aborting pollination and nectar detail. Returning to base. Adam, you wouldn't believe how much honey was out there. Oh, yeah? What's going on? Where is everybody? - Are they out celebrating? - They're home. They don't know what to do. Laying out, sleeping in. I heard your Uncle Oarl was on his way to San Antonio with a cricket. At least we got our honey back. Sometimes I think, so what if humans liked our honey? Who wouldn't? It's the greatest thing in the world! I was excited to be part of making it. This was my new desk. This was my new job. I wanted to do it really well. And now… Now I can't. I don't understand why they're not happy. I thought their lives would be better! They're doing nothing. It's amazing. Honey really changes people. You don't have any idea what's going on, do you? - What did you want to show me? - This. What happened here? That is not the half of it. Oh, no. Oh, my. They're all wilting. Doesn't look very good, does it? No. And whose fault do you think that is? You know, I'm gonna guess bees. Bees? Specifically, me. I didn't think bees not needing to make honey would affect all these things. It's notjust flowers. Fruits, vegetables, they all need bees. That's our whole SAT test right there. Take away produce, that affects the entire animal kingdom. And then, of course… The human species? So if there's no more pollination, it could all just go south here, couldn't it? I know this is also partly my fault. How about a suicide pact? How do we do it? - I'll sting you, you step on me. - That just kills you twice. Right, right. Listen, Barry… sorry, but I gotta get going. I had to open my mouth and talk. Vanessa? Vanessa? Why are you leaving? Where are you going? To the final Tournament of Roses parade in Pasadena. They've moved it to this weekend because all the flowers are dying. It's the last chance I'll ever have to see it. Vanessa, I just wanna say I'm sorry. I never meant it to turn out like this. I know. Me neither. Tournament of Roses. Roses can't do sports. Wait a minute. Roses. Roses? Roses! Vanessa! Roses?! Barry? - Roses are flowers! - Yes, they are. Flowers, bees, pollen! I know. That's why this is the last parade. Maybe not. Oould you ask him to slow down? Oould you slow down? Barry! OK, I made a huge mistake. This is a total disaster, all my fault. Yes, it kind of is. I've ruined the planet. I wanted to help you with the flower shop. I've made it worse. Actually, it's completely closed down. I thought maybe you were remodeling. But I have another idea, and it's greater than my previous ideas combined. I don't want to hear it! All right, they have the roses, the roses have the pollen. I know every bee, plant and flower bud in this park. All we gotta do is get what they've got back here with what we've got. - Bees. - Park. - Pollen! - Flowers. - Repollination! - Across the nation! Tournament of Roses, Pasadena, Oalifornia. They've got nothing but flowers, floats and cotton candy. Security will be tight. I have an idea. Vanessa Bloome, FTD. Official floral business. It's real. Sorry, ma'am. Nice brooch. Thank you. It was a gift. Once inside, we just pick the right float. How about The Princess and the Pea? I could be the princess, and you could be the pea! Yes, I got it. - Where should I sit? - What are you? - I believe I'm the pea. - The pea? It goes under the mattresses. - Not in this fairy tale, sweetheart. - I'm getting the marshal. You do that! This whole parade is a fiasco! Let's see what this baby'll do. Hey, what are you doing?! Then all we do is blend in with traffic… …without arousing suspicion. Once at the airport, there's no stopping us. Stop! Security. - You and your insect pack your float? - Yes. Has it been in your possession the entire time? Would you remove your shoes? - Remove your stinger. - It's part of me. I know. Just having some fun. Enjoy your flight. Then if we're lucky, we'll have just enough pollen to do the job. Oan you believe how lucky we are? We have just enough pollen to do the job! I think this is gonna work. It's got to work. Attention, passengers, this is Oaptain Scott. We have a bit of bad weather in New York. It looks like we'll experience a couple hours delay. Barry, these are cut flowers with no water. They'll never make it. I gotta get up there and talk to them. Be careful. Oan I get help with the Sky Mall magazine? I'd like to order the talking inflatable nose and ear hair trimmer. Oaptain, I'm in a real situation. - What'd you say, Hal? - Nothing. Bee! Don't freak out! My entire species… What are you doing? - Wait a minute! I'm an attorney! - Who's an attorney? Don't move. Oh, Barry. Good afternoon, passengers. This is your captain. Would a Miss Vanessa Bloome in 24B please report to the cockpit? And please hurry! What happened here? There was a DustBuster, a toupee, a life raft exploded. One's bald, one's in a boat, they're both unconscious! - Is that another bee joke? - No! No one's flying the plane! This is JFK control tower, Flight 356. What's your status? This is Vanessa Bloome. I'm a florist from New York. Where's the pilot? He's unconscious, and so is the copilot. Not good. Does anyone onboard have flight experience? As a matter of fact, there is. - Who's that? - Barry Benson. From the honey trial?! Oh, great. Vanessa, this is nothing more than a big metal bee. It's got giant wings, huge engines. I can't fly a plane. - Why not? Isn't John Travolta a pilot? - Yes. How hard could it be? Wait, Barry! We're headed into some lightning. This is Bob Bumble. We have some late-breaking news from JFK Airport, where a suspenseful scene is developing. Barry Benson, fresh from his legal victory… That's Barry! …is attempting to land a plane, loaded with people, flowers and an incapacitated flight crew. Flowers?! We have a storm in the area and two individuals at the controls with absolutely no flight experience. Just a minute. There's a bee on that plane. I'm quite familiar with Mr. Benson and his no-account compadres. They've done enough damage. But isn't he your only hope? Technically, a bee shouldn't be able to fly at all. Their wings are too small… Haven't we heard this a million times? “The surface area of the wings and body mass make no sense.” - Get this on the air! - Got it. - Stand by. - We're going live. The way we work may be a mystery to you. Making honey takes a lot of bees doing a lot of small jobs. But let me tell you about a small job. If you do it well, it makes a big difference. More than we realized. To us, to everyone. That's why I want to get bees back to working together. That's the bee way! We're not made of Jell-O. We get behind a fellow. - Black and yellow! - Hello! Left, right, down, hover. - Hover? - Forget hover. This isn't so hard. Beep-beep! Beep-beep! Barry, what happened?! Wait, I think we were on autopilot the whole time. - That may have been helping me. - And now we're not! So it turns out I cannot fly a plane. All of you, let's get behind this fellow! Move it out! Move out! Our only chance is if I do what I'd do, you copy me with the wings of the plane! Don't have to yell. I'm not yelling! We're in a lot of trouble. It's very hard to concentrate with that panicky tone in your voice! It's not a tone. I'm panicking! I can't do this! Vanessa, pull yourself together. You have to snap out of it! You snap out of it. You snap out of it. - You snap out of it! - You snap out of it! - You snap out of it! - You snap out of it! - You snap out of it! - You snap out of it! - Hold it! - Why? Oome on, it's my turn. How is the plane flying? I don't know. Hello? Benson, got any flowers for a happy occasion in there? The Pollen Jocks! They do get behind a fellow. - Black and yellow. - Hello. All right, let's drop this tin can on the blacktop. Where? I can't see anything. Oan you? No, nothing. It's all cloudy. Oome on. You got to think bee, Barry. - Thinking bee. - Thinking bee. Thinking bee! Thinking bee! Thinking bee! Wait a minute. I think I'm feeling something. - What? - I don't know. It's strong, pulling me. Like a 27-million-year-old instinct. Bring the nose down. Thinking bee! Thinking bee! Thinking bee! - What in the world is on the tarmac? - Get some lights on that! Thinking bee! Thinking bee! Thinking bee! - Vanessa, aim for the flower. - OK. Out the engines. We're going in on bee power. Ready, boys? Affirmative! Good. Good. Easy, now. That's it. Land on that flower! Ready? Full reverse! Spin it around! - Not that flower! The other one! - Which one? - That flower. - I'm aiming at the flower! That's a fat guy in a flowered shirt. I mean the giant pulsating flower made of millions of bees! Pull forward. Nose down. Tail up. Rotate around it. - This is insane, Barry! - This's the only way I know how to fly. Am I koo-koo-kachoo, or is this plane flying in an insect-like pattern? Get your nose in there. Don't be afraid. Smell it. Full reverse! Just drop it. Be a part of it. Aim for the center! Now drop it in! Drop it in, woman! Oome on, already. Barry, we did it! You taught me how to fly! - Yes. No high-five! - Right. Barry, it worked! Did you see the giant flower? What giant flower? Where? Of course I saw the flower! That was genius! - Thank you. - But we're not done yet. Listen, everyone! This runway is covered with the last pollen from the last flowers available anywhere on Earth. That means this is our last chance. We're the only ones who make honey, pollinate flowers and dress like this. If we're gonna survive as a species, this is our moment! What do you say? Are we going to be bees, orjust Museum of Natural History keychains? We're bees! Keychain! Then follow me! Except Keychain. Hold on, Barry. Here. You've earned this. Yeah! I'm a Pollen Jock! And it's a perfect fit. All I gotta do are the sleeves. Oh, yeah. That's our Barry. Mom! The bees are back! If anybody needs to make a call, now's the time. I got a feeling we'll be working late tonight! Here's your change. Have a great afternoon! Oan I help who's next? Would you like some honey with that? It is bee-approved. Don't forget these. Milk, cream, cheese, it's all me. And I don't see a nickel! Sometimes I just feel like a piece of meat! I had no idea. Barry, I'm sorry. Have you got a moment? Would you excuse me? My mosquito associate will help you. Sorry I'm late. He's a lawyer too? I was already a blood-sucking parasite. All I needed was a briefcase. Have a great afternoon! Barry, I just got this huge tulip order, and I can't get them anywhere. No problem, Vannie. Just leave it to me. You're a lifesaver, Barry. Oan I help who's next? All right, scramble, jocks! It's time to fly. Thank you, Barry! That bee is living my life! Let it go, Kenny. - When will this nightmare end?! - Let it all go. - Beautiful day to fly. - Sure is. Between you and me, I was dying to get out of that office. You have got to start thinking bee, my friend. - Thinking bee! - Me? Hold it. Let's just stop for a second. Hold it. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, everyone. Can we stop here? I'm not making a major life decision during a production number! All right. Take ten, everybody. Wrap it up, guys. I had virtually no rehearsal for that.

A Jesus Entrepreneur Collective Commentary with Stan Hustad   There is a version of Jesus that almost everybody can live with. Gentle Jesus. Welcoming Jesus. Compassionate Jesus. Jesus with the children gathered around him. Jesus healing the sick, feeding the hungry, forgiving sinners and telling frightened people not to be afraid. That Jesus is real. But he is not the whole Jesus. And in this challenging edition of the Jesus Entrepreneur Collective, Stan Hustad asks his audience to confront another side of Jesus—the strong, courageous, sometimes confrontational Jesus who was willing to say things that made powerful people uncomfortable. This is Jesus, the Man of the Millstone. And his warning concerning the vulnerable—especially children—is difficult to dismiss. Jesus said that whoever causes one of the "little ones" to stumble would be better off having a great millstone hung around his neck and being cast into the sea. Those are not gentle words. They are not politically convenient words. And they certainly do not sound like the harmless, perpetually agreeable Jesus sometimes presented by modern culture. They are the words of someone who took the protection of the vulnerable with extraordinary seriousness. Jesus Was No Wimp Hustad begins the program with an observation he has made repeatedly throughout his years of broadcasting, teaching and coaching: Jesus was not weak. He was compassionate without being timid. He could welcome a child, touch a leper, forgive a sinner and comfort a grieving family. But he could also challenge religious authorities, confront hypocrisy, overturn tables and stand before political power without surrendering his convictions. Hustad recalls the famous scene from the classic film Ben-Hur. A Roman soldier attempts to prevent Jesus from giving water to the exhausted prisoner. Jesus simply rises and looks at him. No speech. No violence. No threat. Just presence. And the soldier backs away. Whether or not the cinematic scene tells us precisely what the historical Jesus looked like, it captures something important about him: Strength does not always have to shout. Real authority does not require bullying. Courage does not require cruelty. And conviction does not require hatred. That distinction becomes especially important when Christians enter the difficult moral arguments of their time. Don't Mess With the Children The program then moves directly into one of the most contentious issues in American public life: abortion, particularly political efforts to permit abortion very late in pregnancy. Hustad makes no attempt to hide his position. He believes unborn children possess profound human worth, and he believes Christians should speak clearly in their defense. But the challenge goes deeper than a political argument. His question is: What does Jesus' warning about protecting the vulnerable require of people who claim to follow him? That question cannot simply be handed to politicians. It belongs to pastors, business leaders, entrepreneurs, parents and grandparents, teachers, broadcasters and communicators, and ordinary Christians sitting quietly in church pews. The millstone passage is disturbing precisely because Jesus intended it to be disturbing. He deliberately chose an image his listeners would understand: an enormous grinding stone, potentially so heavy that an animal was required to turn it. Then Jesus attached that image to a warning about harming or corrupting the vulnerable. Whatever one's politics, those words should stop a follower of Jesus long enough to ask: Do I take the protection of vulnerable human life as seriously as Jesus apparently did? That is the challenge. Not hatred. Not harassment. Not threats. Not personal condemnation. A challenge of conscience. Conviction Without Cruelty There is another challenge here for the Christian entrepreneur. It is possible to believe something strongly and still behave badly while defending it. Christians do not receive permission to become cruel simply because they believe their cause is righteous. Jesus demonstrated another way: strong convictions, courageous words, compassion for people. Those three belong together. The Jesus Entrepreneur Collective therefore does not call people to attack those with whom they disagree. It calls people to become courageous enough to speak, thoughtful enough to listen, disciplined enough to understand the issue, and compassionate enough to remember that every person in the argument remains a human being. The unborn child matters. The frightened mother matters. The father matters. The physician matters. The person who profoundly disagrees with you matters. Truth and love are not competitors. The difficult task of Christian leadership is learning to practice both. Jesus the Marketplace Man Hustad then returns to one of the recurring themes of the Jesus Entrepreneur Collective: before Jesus became an itinerant teacher, he spent many years in the ordinary world of work. He knew customers. He knew deadlines. He knew workmanship. He knew expectations. He knew what it meant to make something useful and have another person judge its value. Whatever modern occupational title we apply to the ancient tekton, Jesus knew the marketplace. That matters to Hustad because Christianity should never be confined to Sunday morning. If Jesus is Lord, then Jesus belongs in Monday morning too—in the office, in the shop, in the sales meeting, in the boardroom, in the classroom, behind the microphone, and in the difficult public conversations that respectable people would sometimes prefer to avoid. The Jesus Entrepreneur Collective exists in part to recover that connection between faith, courage, work, enterprise and public responsibility. Become an Apprentice Perhaps the most important word in the program is not entrepreneur. It is apprentice. Christians traditionally call the followers of Jesus "disciples." Hustad suggests that modern people might better grasp the idea if they thought of themselves as apprentices. An apprentice watches the master. Studies the master. Practices what the master does. Learns how the master thinks. Makes mistakes, receives correction and tries again. So Hustad poses a far more demanding question than simply, "Do you believe in Jesus?" He asks: Are you apprenticed to Jesus? Are you learning his courage? His compassion? His way of dealing with people? His willingness to challenge conventional wisdom? His concern for the vulnerable? His ability to combine strength and grace? And his willingness to accept the consequences of telling uncomfortable truths? That is considerably harder than simply claiming a religious identity. What's Your MOU With the MOU? Hustad closes with one of his memorable plays on words. Businesspeople know the term MOU—Memorandum of Understanding. So he asks: What is your MOU with the MOU—the Master of the Universe? What exactly is your understanding with Jesus? What have you agreed to do? What responsibilities come with calling yourself his follower? What happens when his teaching conflicts with your politics, your profession, your comfort, your financial interests—or even your friends? Perhaps every Christian entrepreneur needs a personal memorandum of understanding: This is what I believe. This is whom I follow. These are the people I will protect. These are the principles I will not sell. This is how I will treat people who disagree with me. And this is the courage I intend to practice when remaining silent would be easier. That may be what apprenticeship to Jesus looks like in the modern marketplace. And perhaps that is why the image of the millstone still matters. It reminds us that the Jesus who welcomed children was also fiercely serious about what happened to them. Grace was real. Love was real. And so was accountability. THINGS TO REMEMBER Jesus was compassionate, but he was not weak. His love included courage, confrontation and moral seriousness. Protecting the vulnerable is not merely a political issue. For followers of Jesus it is a matter of conscience and discipleship. Conviction does not excuse cruelty. Christians should be able to defend what they believe without dehumanizing those who disagree. Christianity belongs in the marketplace. Faith that disappears when business, money, reputation or controversy enters the room is worth examining. A disciple is an apprentice. Following Jesus means more than admiring him. It means learning to live differently because of him. THINGS TO SHARE Share this program with someone who believes Jesus was merely "nice." Share it with a Christian business leader who is trying to determine how faith should influence difficult decisions. Share it with someone who disagrees with Stan. In fact, that conversation may be particularly worthwhile. The goal should not be to create another shouting match. The world already has plenty of those. The better goal is to create an uncomfortable but honest conversation about human dignity, courage, responsibility, children, conscience and what following Jesus actually requires. THINGS TO DO Before criticizing somebody else, examine your own MOU with the Master of the Universe. Ask yourself: Where am I remaining silent because speaking might cost me something? Where have I confused being loving with being agreeable? Where have I confused being courageous with being angry? Who are the vulnerable people around me whom I have a responsibility to protect? If someone watched my business life for a month, would they discover evidence that I am actually apprenticed to Jesus? Then choose one action: Speak. Serve. Protect. Give. Apologize. Learn. Challenge. Encourage. Or simply refuse to remain comfortably indifferent. AND NOW, A CHALLENGE Stan Hustad has made his argument. You are welcome to challenge it. If you believe he has gone too far, tell him. If you believe he has not gone far enough, tell him that too. If you think his interpretation of Jesus is wrong, make your case. And if this program caused you to reconsider something you had comfortably stopped thinking about, tell him that as well. Write Stan at stan@witradio.net. Better yet, don't keep the conversation between Stan and you. Share this article. Share the program. Start a conversation. And if the idea of becoming an apprentice to Jesus—in your life, profession, business and marketplace leadership—strikes a chord, talk with Stan about becoming part of the Jesus Entrepreneur Collective. Because perhaps the world does not need more people who merely admire Jesus. Perhaps it needs more people willing to apprentice themselves to him—and then have the courage to live like it.

This is the Motion Church Podcast. Thanks for joining us. If you'd like more information about Motion Church, you can always visit our website at motionchurch.com. If you'd like to contribute to what God is doing here at Motion, you can do that at motionchurch.com/give. We hope you enjoyed today's message. Hey, so we're kicking off a new... There we go. Kicking off a new series today called Rock and Soul. Rock and Soul. Did you know that that's an actual genre of music? There are people that have kind of tried to... There was an album. I forget who it was. It's like in the 70s or 80s, like Simon and Garfunkel or something, you know? Anybody feel me on that? And then they came out with an album and it was called Rock and Soul. Not what we're talking about at all. We're talking about... We're gonna shift gears a little bit from kind of the format of our last series. We were very localized in terms of, you know, timeline. We're just looking at some of the stories from the life and ministry of Jesus and stories that demonstrated incredible faith and really enjoyed working. One of my favorite things to do is just kind of taking a passage of Scripture and just working through it, right? Kind of what does it say? What does it mean? How does it apply to us? What are some details that we're inclined to miss? Because we read... Sometimes I do this. Sometimes I just read it to read it and I miss some stuff, right? So I love working through a passage of Scripture like we did each week in that series. This series, we're gonna be all over the place. We are gonna be in Matthew today. We'll probably be in the book of Psalms next week and maybe the book of Exodus the next week. So we're gonna be all over the place. And the point is what we're gonna be doing is looking at in Scripture some of the references to rocks and the imagery and the symbolism and kind of the analogies that rocks have in terms of a spiritual connection to what it is that we're trying to accomplish as followers of Jesus. Makes sense? How many of you like rocks? Rocks are fun. Now, all the dudes, I promise you if we walked outside and there was a pile of rocks, we would pick it up and we would have a target competition, right? We're gonna hit... First one to hit the light pole wins. And for 30 minutes, because all of our arms are trashed these days, right? And then tomorrow we'd wake up and be like, "I don't know what's wrong with..." So we're gonna look at one of the many, some of the many, a few of the many references and illustrations pertaining to rocks in Scripture. Here's what I believe. I believe that anything that is repeated in Scripture is important. If there's a pattern that is repeated, it's for a reason. You're a parent. You know you repeat things that are important because they didn't hear it the first time or the third time or the 300th time. So you just continue to repeat things that are important. I think if there are principles that are repeated, it's there for a reason. It's important. If there is symbolism that is repeated, it also is important. There's got to be something to it, right? And I think that is very true as it relates to rocks. Did you know this... So it's funny when I was writing out my notes, I wrote offhand... This is verbatim what I said. I said, "Offhand, I would venture to say that there are over a hundred references to rocks in Scripture." So then I was like, "Well, I better fact check myself because somebody will do it if I don't." Right? I know y'all. And is somebody gonna call me out because you were wrong past... So I Googled it. And it said that there are roughly between 99 and 136 references to rocks in Scripture, depending on which translation you use. And you know, maybe this is a looser analogy or whatever the case was. So about 100, okay? About 100. And we're only gonna look at a few. You can thank me later. For the next two years, we're gonna be doing a series called Rock and Soul. Got a hundred messages lined out. We're good to go. So we're gonna kick off this week. We're gonna look at an analogy that Jesus uses that highlights the importance of rocks. Here we go. Title for today's message is a firm foundation. A firm foundation. Y'all know this. This is gonna be fun. Sometimes, I think the expectation sometimes when we go to church is like we're expecting to hear something we've never heard before. And I'll be very honest with you. Sometimes we just need to hear what we've already heard and do what we've already... Right? This is for me, right? It's not that I need to learn something new. I need to do better doing what I already know. That's what needs to happen sometimes. So the title is a firm foundation. The first point is, we're gonna call this one construction 101. Construction 101. I know a lot of you guys, guys and girls are kind of in construction industries or construction adjacent injuries. You understand injuries. It's football season. I already think about injuries, right? The construction industry connected like you understand. And if you have it, you've seen houses being built. You understand kind of some of the basic components of construction. We all probably understand how important a good foundation is to whatever it is that you're building. And that's the point that Jesus makes in Matthew chapter 7 verses 24 through 27. It says this. So just before we dive into it, it's the two paths, right? It's the two ways that you can choose to live your life. I think we think sometimes that there's a lot of different paths. And the reality is it's like, yeah, those paths may look different, but it's still the same path, right? You can take this road or you can take this road. One ends well, one not so well. Therefore, if it says therefore, preacher joke, you got to see what it's there for. Therefore, whoever hears these sayings of mine, this is Jesus talking, whoever hears these sayings of mine and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock and the rain descended. The floods came and the winds blew and beat on that house and it did not fall for it was founded on the rock. Founded on the rock is another way of saying what the rock was its foundation. So it was founded on the rock. But everyone who hears these sayings of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand and the rain descended. The floods came and the winds blew and beat on that house and it fell and great was its fall. So here's what we're going to do. We're going to break down both of those paths, right? But what does it look like when you build your house on the rock? What does it look like when you build your house on the sand? What are kind of some of the things that go into that? And ultimately, what is the outcome of that? And really, I hope through contrast, we can see which is the better path for us as if you don't know this. But sometimes again, just important to be reminded of things that we know. So we're going to break it down. You ready? Break it down. I thought you were going to start dancing. Break it down. Break it down. This is the first thing that Jesus said. Therefore, whoever hears these sayings of mine, whoever hears these sayings of mine, that's where for us, for those of us who aspire to be wise people who build their house on the rock, it starts with hearing these words of mine. Now, specifically in context, what is Jesus talking about? The words that he just said, right? So Matthew chapter five, Matthew chapter six, Matthew chapter seven, it's a sermon on the Mount. And in terms of a sermon, best sermon ever preached, ever hands down, bar none, nothing even close, right? Just maybe the modern way to say it would be bars, right? Just so good. Matthew chapter five starts with the beatitudes, blessed are the poor in spirit, blessed are the me, blessed are the peacemakers, blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness. And then I'll be honest with you, like the back half of Matthew chapter five is tough. It's tough because he's like, Hey, I know this is what you've been taught, but I actually expect more of you. Like I know this is what you think about adultery, but I'm also going to teach you about lust. I know this is what you think about murder, but this is what I'm going to tell you about anger, right? Not that any of us struggle with those sorts of things, right? Not an angry person at all. Okay. Right. And so he gets into some stuff and he's like, Oh, those enemies that you've got, I'm going to teach you how to forgive them. That, that, that thing that people asked you how to do, I'm going to teach you how to go another mile. I'm like, why did you have to put all that stuff in there? Jesus, right? So it's such good, but challenging stuff, which is kind of the point. And we'll go over this a little bit more in detail at the end. The point for us, those of us who are aspiring to build our house on the rock, y'all, we don't get to pick and choose which sayings of Jesus apply to us or which ones we, we want to fit into our lives. The point is not for us to fit the teachings of Jesus into our lives. It's to fit our lives into the teachings of Jesus. Okay. And I look at, and not easy. Nobody ever said that it was, but worthwhile. It's building your house on a rock and it's something that will last. So he's specifically talking about the words that he just said, Matthew chapter six. This is how you give. This is how you pray. This is how you fast. Also stop worrying about everything. Look at the birds of the air. I take care of them. Look at the flowers of the field. I take care of them. What can you add to your life by worrying about all the things that you be out here worrying about? Right? It's good stuff. And in Matthew chapter seven, he's like, uh, you know, the, the ask, seek, knock, and then also our, our favorite, the judge, not list, you be judged, right? And then the two different paths, Matthew chapter Matthew seven, 13 and 14. He's like, Hey, there's a Broadway and there's a narrow way. And it's like your mama said, if everybody else was jumping off the bridge, would you jump off the bridge also? Right. And then he finishes with, you know, if you hear my words and you do them, you'll be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. However, I think it's safe to expand this to the other teachings, the life of Jesus, the example of Jesus. So anything that Jesus said, anything that Jesus did, I think it is safe for us to assume that when we hear that, when we see that we should do that. Okay. Very good. All right. So that's the simplest takeaway is, is the idea for us, I think bottom line, we need to be hearing the words of Jesus. Like whoever hears these words of mine, we need to hear the words of Jesus. You know why that's so important? Because we hear everything else. We hear everything else. Like just all the chatter and all the talk and all the, the criticism and all the negativity. We hear everything else. We hear the news. We, we, we read the articles, right? We hear the reels. We see the shorts. We hear the opinions. We hear the criticisms and what you better have, what you have to have, if you want to make it, if you want to build your house on something that's going to last is you better build your house on the rock. You need to hear the words of Jesus to give you framework, to understand everything else that you're hearing. I'm hearing it, but is it true? And if I hear the words of Jesus, I know what truth is. So I know that that's not truth. So that doesn't get internalized into my life. If I hear the words of Jesus and I know what's good and right and, and just in those sorts of things, then all of the other things that I hear, they don't have the same effect on me. It just gives us a framework. We need to be hearing the words of Jesus. That means we get into his word. We read the scriptures like personally, like it's not, listen, and y'all know this, but it's not the church's job to feed you. Y'all, if you're eating one time a week, like you're in trouble, you are not getting the proper nutrition. You should be eating all the time. Just eat, eat, right? Sorry, another football reference. Just like we got to be, we have to be, we have to be hearing the words of Jesus on our own. Listen to sermons. Like you're not going to hurt my feelings. I know there are better preachers out there. I listen to them too, right? Listen to people who are preaching the word of God, hear the words of Jesus, be in, come to church. Like we're going to talk about it here too. And that's amazing, but that's once a week and we need to be hearing it more than just that. Get into some small groups where it's being talked about. Have some friendships where you can, you can like break it down. And man, this is what I think it means. And what do you think it means? I have no idea. Tell me what you're thinking, how you feel, and hear the words of Jesus. We just need to hear the words of Jesus. Have you ever known someone so well that you knew what, this happens to me a lot. Everybody thinks they know what I would do. And usually they're right. I'm kind of predictable, right? So there are so many times in my life, somebody's like, yeah, I know what you would have done. So I went ahead and did it. I'm like, all right, you got me. That's right. And so what's the point of that? It's like, you know someone so well that you know what they would do even if they're not there. Why? Because you've heard their heart. You've heard, if you hear the words of Jesus, you hear his heart and you know what you're supposed to do. So the person who hears these words of mine, and then the next part of that, and this is the challenging part of that, and does them, and does them. And I know you know this, but it is not enough to hear the words of Jesus. We need to do something with the words of Jesus. We got to, listen, it's got to get deep down. It's got to penetrate deep enough into your heart that it actually affects the way that you live your life. The point is never, ever just information. The point is transformation. Like information in and of itself is fine, but it's never enough. The point is to have the information that goes in and does a work on your soul that causes you to live differently. This is how it says it in the book of James, James chapter one, verses 22 through 25. One of my favorite passages of scripture, and I say that all the time, and I mean it. I got a bunch of, like some of y'all got a bunch of best friends, which is impossible because best means best. It's my favorite passage of scripture. Here we go. It says, "But be doers of the word and not hearers only." Deceiving yourselves. Isn't that kind of interesting? Because like I think what we do sometimes is we talk ourselves into not doing it because we know it, and that's kind of good enough, right? So we deceive ourselves because we're hearers and not doers also. And then it says, "For if anyone is," this is so good, listen to this, "For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror," checking yourself out, looking at all the angles. I know you snuck in that duck face selfie. I know you did. "Is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror, for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the word, this one will be blessed in what he does." You know what I think that means? Again, when we hear the words of Jesus, we understand the heart of Jesus. When you hear the words of Jesus and you do them, you know who he is. Therefore, you know who you are. You can look in the mirror and you know who you are. And when you leave the mirror, you still know who you are because you've heard the words of Jesus and you've allowed them to get deep enough into your heart that you understand your identity. You're not going to leave and forget who you are just based on who you're with because that never happens. Like, what is it? A code switch? Is that what they call it when you get around different people and you act different? Thank you, trendy. Youth pastor, right? It keeps me in touch. It's not enough. It's not enough to be a theologian. And I think that's amazing that there are people who devote so much of their time and, you know, effort and stuff to learning more about scripture and learning about God. But listen, if you're a theologian and not a practitioner, you are wasting your time. Like, if you got all the knowledge in the world and there isn't any application of that knowledge, you are missing the point. You're missing the boat. You're wasting your time. And trust me when I say this is like, this is not an attack on knowledge. Knowledge, I think, is incredibly important. We should always be aspiring to attain a better understanding of the things of God, but never just for the sake of knowing, but for doing, right? I know it so that I know how to do it. Not just so I know it so that I know it because y'all got a lot of, there's plenty of those. You met the know-it-alls that never do anything. I'm like, that's amazing. You got all this information in your head. How about you get out there and do something with your hands? That was good preaching. Sorry. You know what the difference in my opinion is between knowledge and wisdom? Again, knowledge is incredible. Knowledge is kind of, it's the doorway. It's the step in the right direction, but knowledge is simply information. It's having the information in your head. Wisdom is when you take that information and you apply it to your life. You're a hearer and a doer also. So that's the second part, right? So he hears the words of Jesus and he does them. And then Jesus said, this is like a wise man who built his house, which means, which is to say that then we get about the business of building our house built, which is kind of another way, a clever way of saying, an illustrative way of saying, go build your life on the principles of Jesus, the teachings of Jesus, the ways of Jesus. Then go and build your life. Like we are called to be doers, not just in the sense that we're doing God's word, but doers in the sense that we are building something that matters and something that lasts. Our lives are significant. We're not just, you're not just floating through time. Like you're here for a reason. You have a purpose. Like God has called you to do something with your life. So get about building that house, right? I think someone who follows the teachings of Jesus, you feel deep in your soul that you're supposed to do something significant with your life. We use language like this, like something bigger than myself. You feel this sense of urgency to build something and be a part of something that is bigger than yourself. It's something that you can pass on to the generations to come. It's never just about you because you're building something that matters. We're called to be builders and makers, not just grifters and takers. That was a good line. You can say amen or owe me, right? We're called to be builders. We're called to be people who make things, like who creates. God is a creative God and we're made in his image. Therefore we should create. So we're called to be builders and makers, not just grifters and takers. The world and the church for that matter. We've got too many of those. We've got so many people that are always about what can you do for me? What can I get out of this? It's always this consumption thing. It's always, and you live your whole life like that and it even bleeds over into your spiritual pursuits where it's always about consumption. Here's a thought. What have you given? What have you built? What have you contributed? Make sure it's not that we don't consume. It's just also we do contribute as well. So let's get about the building part of this. We hear God's word. We do God's word and we build our lives on the rock. And when you build your life on the rock, it is good for your soul. Rock and soul. Okay, good. Now on the other hand, this I thought about calling this point shoddy craftsmanship. On the other hand, this is the person who Jesus said built his house on the sand. And I thought I was kind of working like why did Jesus choose to use sand as kind of the reference point, the imagery of the foundation of someone who is unwise, a foolish person. And we'll get there. I think there's obviously significance to that, but I think there are some other things that we should point out first. The first thing is it's interesting how the story is set up exactly the same. So he says the wise man, hears the words, does them, then he builds his house on the rock. The foolish man hears the words, doesn't do them. So it's kind of the same order. It's just a different outcome because of what he chose to do with the information that he had. So he hears them. He doesn't do them. And he builds his house on the sand. And you know what I think this, this is just maybe this is my opinion. Maybe I'm reading too much into this. You notice how Jesus directs. It seems to be a directed message at a specific audience. And I think the tendency is to think that this is a message for them. Y'all ever do that and be like, man, that's a good word preacher for my neighbor, right? My wife needed to hear that. My husband show needed to hear that, right? My kids, God bless them, they show needed to hear that. And I think this is a message because we hear that and we're like, oh yeah, yeah, they're not doing the words of Jesus. This is obviously, obviously for all those, those sinners and those pagans and those outsiders. But what does he say? He's like those who hear my words and don't do them. I think this is a message just as much for the insiders as it is for the outsiders. I think it's easy. This is the easy thing to do. It's so easy for us to look at the world and all of the craziness and all of the evil and cast dispersions and be like, oh yeah, the world. And that's fair. Like we're allowed to call things for what they are. We're beholden to truth and light so we can call evil what it is. But this specific analogy is for those who hear the words of Jesus and don't do them. And listen, that very well could be me and you. You can go to church and I hope you do. I mean, I think it's important, right? You can go to church and you can make claims that you follow Jesus, but if you hear it and don't do it, you're a person who's building your house, building your life on the sand. If you aren't doing what he said to do, then you are building your house on the sand. Okay, here's the other thing. This is another thing that's interesting about this passage. Jesus doesn't make any distinction between the fact that both groups are building, right? So one is building their house, building their life on the rock. The other is building their house, building their life on the sand, which is maybe another way to say, hey, they're busy too, right? They've got full plates too. They've got activities too. They've got crowded hearts too. It's not that they're not building something. It's not that they're not winning. It may just be that they're winning at the wrong things. I thought that was good, right? Because I think that's sometimes, sometimes the measure that we use to evaluate the success of somebody's life is like how active they are and how busy they are and how much they accomplish. And that's not the measure. The measure is, are you building your house on the rock? Are you building your house to last? Are you building your house on the foundation, the principles, the teachings, the hearings, the words of Jesus? Or are you just busy building a life that's absent of those things? And if you do, you may be building, but you're not building something that lasts. You're not building something that's going to be significant down the road. And so there's a difference between the choice and foundation, and that makes all the difference. And so here's what we do, the tendency again, because that's the way sometimes that we tend to measure things. We can win, but we can win at the wrong things. And here's what's scary about that is like, I can tell you as a fact, there's a lot of things that I cannot tell you for a fact. There are some things that I've got strong opinions on. There are some things that I've got like, you know, sometimes I make up things just to fill in the gaps. I know, you know, Shelley, when we first got married, Shelley was like, man, you just know everything. I'm like, yes, I do. And the truth is, this is before the internet was like ubiquitous. And the truth is, I just kind of made it up on a best guess, right? And it's like, and I was like, right ish a lot of times. So it just, it just happened to work out. But the truth is like, we don't, we don't know everything, right? But I can tell you this for a fact, like from personal experience, that this is a possibility of this, this building your life on the wrong foundation is a possibility for good church-going folk like me and you. I know you don't want to hear that. And I think, you know, I'm at church, I'm building my, yeah, listen, if you hear it and you don't do it, you're building your house on the sand. And that can happen to any one of us. It can happen to me. It's like there have been seasons in my life where I've been building stuff, but it's not been the right stuff, right? So this is, I'm so thankful to God for these necessary warnings along the way. We can never, we can't ever get to the end of our life and be mad at Jesus for not telling us. Because He told us on the front end, you're going to have these troubles. You're going to have these struggles. Make sure you build your life like all of the warnings that He gave us. I'm so thankful for them. And then, then we get to the foundation selection. So you've got the one who built his house on the rock and the other who built his house on the sand. What is the significance of the sand? You know how foolish that would be, right? To build your house. You've walked on sand. You've been to a beach. You know that sand gives way under pressure. You ever tried to run in the sand? You look like a slug, right? Again, in my mind, I still got it, right? There's still some athleticism there. And you get in the sand, you're like, nah, it's gone. It is gone, gone, gone. You know how foolish it would be to build your house on the sand? It's unstable. It's shifty. Does it sound like some people's lives? The instability gives weight under pressure, gives weight under pressure. There's not some stick-to-it-iveness to it. It's like shifting and moving. That's crazy. Which is exactly the point that Jesus was making, right? That's exactly the point. The people that don't follow His ways, this is what they're inclined to do. They're inclined to just shift, to just change. Just like whatever. There's no stability under pressure. So I'm just going to go on to the next thing. These are the types of people who are inclined to follow their heart. Follow their heart into the next thing, this thing, that thing, everything, whatever is the next shiny thing. There's always the volatility and the instability. And these are the types of people who are so quick to start one thing. And then when it doesn't go, how they think it should go, they're on to the next thing. And that doesn't exclude relationships. I know that's offensive. And Frank, listen, you know, I've decided at some point in my life, in the last few years, I am not going to apologize for sharing the truths about God's Word. Just not going to do it. Like if it offends you, and obviously I want to do that as lovingly, as kindly as possible, but I'm just not going to apologize for telling you what God's Word says. So these types of people, that's why we see, like, marriages dissolve so quickly. It's like, "Oh, well, it's not Cinderella. It's not a fairy tale like I thought it was going to be." So I'm out. Or you can build your house on the rock, where there's some stability and there's some persistence. What is a rock? It is resilience, right? There is some stability in that. And it's like, just because there's adversity and there's hardship doesn't mean that I'm going to dip set, which is, is that another trick? Oh, he's gone. Another trendy word, right? So here's what this starts to look like as you kind of play these two lifestyles out. The one who chooses to build his house on the rock, the one who chooses to build his house on the sand, you really start to see, over time, the difference, right? The contrast between the two. And it takes some time sometimes. I think if you have a small sample size in terms of time, you may not notice that much of a difference. But over the course of time, it will be very obvious that one person, the wise person, is living for something that matters. They're living with purpose. They're living for something bigger than themselves. They're living for something that's actually going to have some lasting value. On the other hand, you got the person who builds their life on the sand and they're just living for the next thing. They're living for the moment. They're living for the feels, right? And that is not, that is, I'm just going to help you out. That is not a way to live your life. Do you notice how, this is interesting, this is the last correlation we're going to make kind of between the two groups. And I think it's, it's one of the most important. Do you notice how each of the groups described, the wise man, the foolish man, both of them, the rains descended, the floods came, the wind blew and beat upon that house. Happened to the, the man who built his house on the, the firm foundation happened to the man who built his house on the sand, but there were two completely different outcomes. What does it say for the man who built this house on the rock? It says the rains came, the rains descended, the floods came, the wind blew and beat on his house. But because it was built on this firm foundation, because it was built on the rock, it stood. On the other hand, the one who built his house on the sand, what happened to him? The rains descended, the floods came, the winds blew and beat on his house and it fell. And it doesn't stop there. It doesn't say it just fell. And it says, and great was its fall. Here's my hope. This is my prayer for us as followers of Jesus, people that come to this church who, who as a community, we are aspiring to live a wise life and build our house on the rock. Just make, make all of these principles a routine, a staple in your life. Hear the words of Jesus, like whatever that looks like, man, if you've got a rhythm where, where you do devotionals and you get into God's word, man, that's amazing. Keep it up. If you don't, that is a great place to start. Be in environments where you're hearing the words of Jesus, but not just picking and choosing. I had an old pastor friend and he's like, some of y'all, not us, other people, other churches, other parts of the world. He was like, some of y'all are like Piccadilly Christians. And y'all don't, does anybody remember Piccadilly? Used to be in the Longview mall, like right when you walked into the right, but that was in the eighties. So disregard that reference, right? But it was a buffet. And what would you do with the buffet? You just go, Ooh, I want some of that. Do not want any of that. And I think that's kind of the tendency sometimes, isn't it? It's like, Oh, we love this Jesus that's meek and mild in this Jesus that's love and rainbows and light. But when Jesus starts telling us these hard teachings that then we have to change our life to fit into his words, not get his words to fit into our life. It gets a little more complicated, right? Build your, hear his words, hear his words, all of them and do them and do them, not just have the information, but experience transformation in your life and then get about building the life, man. Go do that thing. Go, go build your life, build your family, build your legacy, using the principles, the teachings, the words of Jesus, always as the foundation. And here's what's so beautiful about that. It is, it is transcend everything that you do. Every facet of your life should have these principles, these teaching teachings and these ways of Jesus. And that's what we should be about is building our life, building our house on the rock. It is a wise way to build your house, build your house on the rock. It is good for your soul. Amen. It's a good time to say like, Amen. Amen. Let me pray for us. Jesus, thank you so much for, this is not an easy teaching to be honest. I get scared to think that we can hear your words. We can know your words. We can be in church. We can know scripture and still be like the foolish person who builds our house on the sand. God, God helped that not to be any of us. God help us as the book of James says to be not hearers only, but doers also. Father, we don't want to just know your words that we have information. God, we desperately want to experience transformation. God, I want my life to be different because I hear your words. When I hear your words, I know your heart. And when I know your heart, I can't help but be changed. God, give me the wisdom to see the areas that I'm resistant, that I'm hesitant, that I try to make your words fit my life, not my life fit your words. Father, and give me the courage to change what needs to be changed. The humility got to break off whatever needs to be broken off. And Father, in your grace, I know that you'll do that. It says that if we ask, if we seek, if we knock, you're there, you're willing and you're able. So Father, we thank you so much for that this morning. Help us to be people who are wise, Jesus, who build our house on the rock and have this stability, this resilience in our soul. It's in Jesus name we pray. Amen.

There have been few hopes dashed harder than when Matt looked at our topics and thought for a brief, shining moment that maybe dyes were coming to transmog, and not just staying in Player Housing. But no, it's just for Player Housing, and there have been some changes to dyes as we head into patch 12.1 next week. Because we livestream the recording every week, and Liz has been playing WoW our guest host for this week Six took us on a quick tour of his apparently bonkers Housing creation, and we talked about some of the incredible looks you can get with creative item combinations. (And if you like streaming, Liz has been streaming indie games on Twitch, and you can catch the videos on YouTube if you miss the livestream.)And speaking of streaming, we have confirmation this week that BlizzCon will be livestreamed for free. And speaking of things being announced, did you hear there's going to be a new World of Warcraft adventure for Dungeons & Dragons? Pretty wild they announced that with about a month to go til BlizzCon. Makes me kind of excited to see what will be unveiled during the big show.Oh, and this is proof that if you send us some questions for the podcast, we will answer them! Eventually!If you have a few minutes, please fill out our survey to tell us what you think about the podcast. This data is collected by our podcast host, Acast, and will be used to help us improve the show as well as attract potential sponsors. Your answers are completely anonymous. We appreciate your help!If you enjoy the show, please support us on Patreon, where you can get these episodes early and ad-free! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

An email from a reader giving me feedback on the cost of making my pistachio and white chocolate cookies, got me thinking of economic baking ideas. This recipe for peanut brownies is just the ticket – easy to make, rich with protein from the egg and nuts, they're a filling little lunch box filler or perfect to have with a cuppa tea. Makes 20 Ingredients 125g butter 1 cup sugar 1 egg 1 ½ cups flour 1 tsp baking powder 2 tbsps. cocoa 1 cup roasted peanuts or other nuts Method Preheat the oven to 180C. Beat the butter and sugar until creamy, then beat in the egg. Sift in the dry ingredients, then stir through the nuts. Roll tablespoons of dough into balls and place onto baking paper lined tray and press slightly to flatten. Bake for 20 minutes. Cool on the tray for 10 minutes while they firm up, then transfer to a cooling rack. Make them your own Other nuts can be used – cashews, walnuts, or my favourite, tamari almonds. LISTEN ABOVE See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It's Tuesday, August 4, A.D. 2026. This is The Worldview in 5 Minutes heard on 140 radio stations and at www.TheWorldview.com.  I'm Adam McManus. (Adam@TheWorldview.com) By Kevin Swanson, Timothy Reed and Adam McManus Amnesty Int'l apologized for smearing Christians and pro-lifers Some good news on the Christian persecution front today.   Amnesty International has officially apologized for publishing a report that accused 117 Christian and pro-life groups in the UK as “anti-rights.”   In the apology, Amnesty admitted the report “should never have been published” and fell “significantly short” of its standards for research. The report had attacked the Evangelical Alliance, Christian Concern, the Catholic Bishops' Conference of England and Wales, The Christian Institute, The Society for the Protection of Unborn Children, and the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association UK as well as crisis pregnancy centers. Oil is slowing through Strait of Hormuz and the Bab-al-Mandab strait Transporting oil and other goods out of the Middle East has become a real problem. Now the problem has reached its highest crisis point since the wars in the region fired up in the spring.  BBC reports the situation is far worse now, with Iranian pressure at the Strait of Hormuz, and Yemen Houthi pressure put on the Bab-al-Mandab Strait into the Red Sea. Only 10-15 ships a day pass through the Strait of Hormuz. That's about one-eighth the normal shipping flow. And the Bab-Al-Mandab Strait is only getting about 25-30 ships a day. That's about half the normal flow.  Saudi Arabia and Iran's economies both took a hit Saudi Arabia's economy took a 4.8% hit in the 2nd Quarter of this year. Iran is looking at a 5.4% decline for the year, according to International Monetary Fund numbers. Iran is also dealing with 68% inflation this year. Drought and fires impacting Europe God's hand has fallen hard on Western Europe. The United Kingdom experienced its driest July in nearly 200 years. Much of the nation is in drought. France recently battled its largest recorded wildfire, following months of drought and extreme heat. Parts of the Danube River have dropped to the lowest levels in 30 years. Italy's River Po has also registered a historic low. And Germany's Rhine River is at its lowest level since 2018. And fires in Spain and France took down over a million acres, resulting in the destruction of about 300 structures. Syrians & Haitians, here temporarily, were supposed to self deport Monday Here in the United States, 356,000 U.S. immigrants on Temporary Protected Status were ordered to leave by August 3rd. Presently this affects Syrians and Haitians, but may eventually impact another 1,000,000 immigrants from other countries.   This comes after a U.S. Supreme Court ruling issued last month backed the Trump administration's policy to end Temporary Protected Status. The U.S. Department of Homeland Security website is encouraging self-deportation, offering free travel, and a $2,600 bonus to get them out. New York is pushing assisted suicide and the nuns are pushing back The state of New York is pushing medically-assisted suicide, and a group of Catholic nuns are protesting. The Carmelite Sisters for the Aged and Infirm and the Dominican Sisters of Hawthorne have been granted a reprieve by a federal district court. They will not have to counsel terminally ill patients or assist them with medically assisted suicide, at least for now, according to the Beckett Fund for Religious Liberty. Christian physician assistant vindicated for opposing transgender insanity A Christian physician's assistant won her court case in Michigan.  Valerie Kloosterman, a University of Michigan Health-West health worker, was fired five years ago, because of her stance against transgenderism and her affirmation of biblical principles. The health system agreed to pay $410,000 to Kloosterman and her attorneys, while also pledging to “create a religious accommodation policy in accordance with the law, notify and train all its employees, [and] grant reasonable religious accommodations without retaliation.”   Armed citizens stopped mass murderer at Idaho In-N-Out  Burgers Two armed citizens stopped a mass murderer at an In-N-Out Burger restaurant in Twin Falls, Idaho over the weekend. Police Chief Matthew Hicks recognized the two heroes for their courageous actions taken when they returned fire on the assailant. HICKS: “We can confirm that there was an off-duty state trooper and a citizen who actively engaged the suspect by returning gunfire towards him. We want to take a moment and commend the actions of the off-duty officer and the citizen and their heroic action to stop this incident. We believe their actions helped drive the suspect away from the scene, preventing further casualties.” Three died and seven more were wounded in the rampage. The suspect, who used an AR-style rifle, now identified as Chad Williams, died as a result of self-inflicted gunshot wounds. The New York Post reported that Terry Dudley, a taxi driver in Twin Falls, was among those hit by bullets, according to a GoFundMe account to raise money for his medical expenses.  Dudley, a widower and father-of-four, was shot twice in the back as he charged his Tesla. Massachusetts considers birthday abortions without exceptions The state of Massachusetts is on the verge of allowing abortions up until birth without any exceptions.  Dr. Christina Francis with the American Association of Pro-Life Obstetricians and Gynecologists, commented on the measure. She said, “It is never medically necessary to purposely end the life of a pre-born child in order to save her mother. Under certain circumstances where a pregnancy complication threatens a mother's life, a physician must separate mom from baby, sometimes when the baby is too young to survive outside the womb.”  Both houses have approved the bill — now awaiting the governor's signature. Maura Healey is Massachusetts's first lesbian governor.   Call Governor Healy at (617) 725-4005 or (413) 784-1200 and urge her not to sign this law that allows abortionists to kill babies on their birthdays. You can also email her through a special link in our transcript today at www.TheWorldview.com. Americans elected three homosexual governors Americans have elected three homosexual governors: Massachusetts Governor Maura Healy, Oregon Governor Tina Kotek, and Colorado Governor Jared Polis. The Wisdom book of Proverbs reminds us that “When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; but when a wicked man rules, the people groan.” (Proverbs 29:2.) Support for homosexual faux marriage is collapsing Support for homosexual faux marriage is collapsing in the states. The latest YouGov Economist poll finds only 54% of Americans now in favor of legalizing the practice, while 32% oppose. The percentage of those who approved of the legalization of homosexual faux marriage peaked in the United States about three years ago at 70%. Washington state fires burned 6,000 acres Those fires in Washington state have burned down about 6,000 acres, including 700 structures. Over 60,000 people have been evacuated from the Spokane area. Christian singer booted from Alaska Airlines flight over “preaching” Christian singer Whitney Lynn's website describes her as an internationally-recognized evangelist, singer, songwriter, and deliverance minister with millions of Instagram views. Last week, before an Alaska Airlines flight took off because of some delay, Whitney stood up and boldly shared the Gospel of Jesus Christ in a relevant and pithy manner to the captive audience on the plane. Listen to what she said as she filmed herself. LYNN: “Hello, everybody. Good morning. I know we're all waiting. It's kind of frustrating, right? This wait? But I want to tell you that God's timing is perfect, and God knows everything. Maybe He's sparing us from danger today. “So, I want you to rest and know that Jesus Christ loves you so much that He died on the cross for your sins. He rose again in three days. He's alive and He's the one true God. But the wages of our sin is death. Hell forever. “Apart from Jesus, we won't make it to Heaven. But He loves you so much. Make him Lord. Repent of your sins. He is coming back very soon. I pray protection over this flight, in the name of Jesus. Amen.” Oddly enough, the airline staff said they felt “unsafe” and proceeded to escort her off the plane. As she was making her way down the aisle to get off the plane, Whitney dialogued with a male Alaska Airlines flight attendant on video. FLIGHT ATTENDANT: “The crews don't feel safe with you.” LYNN: “They don't feel safe? FLIGHT ATTENDANT: “Yeah.” LYNN: “Oh my gosh! I didn't know the message of Jesus Christ was unsafe. Wow! Do I have any guns or anything like that? No, I don't. “So, freedom of speech is not safe. I tell you what this is. It's called spiritual warfare. Is it a crime? Is it against the law? Can you tell me that? I'm just asking you a question. FLIGHT ATTENDANT: “I'm not going to answer any more questions.” LYNN: “I'm getting my stuff as I'm talking. So, can you answer the question? Is it against the law? To preach the gospel? FLIGHT ATTENDANT:  “I don't need to answer any questions.” LYNN:  “You can. You sure can. Last days. People can't talk about Jesus anymore. That's how you know there's power in that name. Makes people feel unsafe. That's sad, very sad. “Well, God bless everybody. If you know Jesus today, make Him Lord of your life and continue to spread the Gospel. Persecuted to be a Christian, it's coming. We're gonna go to jail.” Whitney Lynn has now been banned for future travel on Alaskan Airlines as well as a few other carriers. Proverbs 28:1 notes that, “The wicked flee when no one pursues, but the righteous are bold as a lion.” You can write Shane Tackett, the president of Alaska Airlines to object to their decision to ban Christian singer Whitney Lynn. His address is 19300 International Blvd, SeaTac, WA 98188.  Or call: 1 (800) 252-7522. TN listener calls newscast the hub, challenges listeners to evangelize Here at The Worldview in 5 Minutes newscast, Jeff Thompson in Sevierville, Tennessee emailed me and said, “Adam, I want to make two points. First, I see your ministry like a large wagon wheel with many spokes going out in all directions. Your newscast is at the hub, goes out and reaches all points on the compass. You will never know, this side of Heaven, the effect your ministry has had on the lives of the people and what they did with the information you shared. “You are doing a work that the Lord gave you to do. So, He will move the hearts of His people to provide the means to complete the work. Philippians 4:6-7 reminds us, ‘Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.' “Second, I would challenge The Worldview listeners to be like the sons of Issachar. In 1 Chronicles 12:32, it explains that the men ‘understood the times and knew what Israel should do.'  Be intentional in your walk with Christ. Remember to obey our Lord and take the Gospel into all the world. Show the love of Jesus to everyone in your sphere of influence. If we obey this command and love those around us, I can promise that you will have a full and exciting life.” 26 Worldview listeners gave $12,870.83 And finally, by Monday night at 10:30pm Central, 26 Worldview listeners stepped up to the plate and invested their treasure to fund the 6-member team behind The Worldview for another year. Our thanks to Tony and Jennie in Palmdale, California who gave $20.83, Brent in Madison, Alabama and Margaret in Raleigh, North Carolina – both of whom gave $25, Cara in Mebane, North Carolina, Hannah in Leo, Indiana, and Mark in Goodyear, Arizona – each of whom gave $30 as well as Julie in Victoria, Texas and Kevin in Scottdale, Pennsylvania – both of whom gave $50. We appreciate Aiden in Robert, Missouri and Richard and LeAnn in Zeeland, North Dakota – both of whom gave $100 as well as Christa in Humboldt, Saskatchewan, Canada who gave $150. We're grateful to God for Kirsten in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, Bob in Atascadero, California, and Dan in Frostproof, Florida – each of whom gave $200 as well as Griffin in Kila, Montana who pledged $25/month for 12 months for a gift of $300. We were touched by the generosity of Sean in Winona, Minnesota who gave $500, Frances in Beacon, New York who gave $500, Mitch who gave $500, and Cathy in Fate, Texas who pledged $41.67/month for 12 months for a gift of $500. And we were blown away by Chuck who will continue his $50/month pledge for a gift of $600, David in Northumberland, Pennsylvania who will continue his $50 monthly pledge for another year for a gift of $600, Michael and Jacci in Valley Center, California who will continue their $80 monthly pledge for a gift of $960, Charles in Hollywood, Maryland who gave $1,000, Charcie in Castle Rock, Colorado who gave $1,000, Jack and Genita in Bradstone, Kentucky who gave $1,200, and Jeanne in Columbia, South Carolina who gave $4,000. Wow! Those 26 gifts add up to $12,870.83. Ready for our new grand total? Drum roll please. (drum roll sound effect) $122,550  (sound effect of people cheering) I can finally see the finish line from here. In order to hit our final goal of $123,500 on this second spillover day – Tuesday, August 3rd -- God needs to prompt folks to give the FINAL $950 in order for the 6-member Worldview newscast team to be fully funded for another year. If one person gives $50 and another 3 people pledge $25/month for 12 months, we will get there.  We are so close! Just go to TheWorldview.com, click on Give, select the dollar amount, and make sure to click on the “recurring” button if that's your wish.  And remember this: If you want to continue your monthly pledge to The Worldview that you started prior to July 1, 2026, please email us so we can count your generous ongoing gift toward our total. Help us get across the finish line. Go to TheWorldview.com and click on Give. Close And that's The Worldview on this Tuesday, August 4th, in the year of our Lord 2026. Subscribe for free by Spotify, Amazon Music, or by iTunes or email to our unique Christian newscast at www.TheWorldview.com.  Plus, you can get the Generations app through Google Play or The App Store. I'm Adam McManus (Adam@TheWorldview.com). Seize the day for Jesus Christ. Extra Print Benjamin Netanyahu and Volodymyr Zelensky met Trump at White House Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky met with President Trump at the White House in Washington D.C. last week, reports the Guardian. For Netanyahu, it was his first time back at the White House since hostilities commenced with Iran in late February. The meeting also comes as domestic support for Israel continues to slip, while the Iran war is driving up oil prices before the midterms. In his meeting with Zelensky, President Trump discussed ongoing support for the Ukrainian war effort against Russia. Zelensky stated, “We also spoke about diplomacy. It's important that the diplomatic process be reinvigorated. Our teams will arrange the details of their further communication. I am grateful to the United States for its firm support.” 

Brewers take a series against the Angels but can't get the sweep with Miz on the mound. Trade deadline day and Tarik Skubal is headed to the Dodgers (of course). Makes a 3rd straight Dodgers' World Series and a lockout in 2027 feel almost inevitable. Packers back at practice today, Tucker Kraft OFF of the PUP list over the weekend: See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Don’t get left behind on AWS! Don’t get left behind on AWS! Subscribe to our Newsletter: https://theultimatepartner.com/ebook-subscribe/ Check Out UPX: https://theultimatepartner.com/experience/ In this episode, we go deep inside the AWS Marketplace with Louise Strandoo, who spent nearly a decade building AWS’s marketplace business from the ground up and now leads partner development for AWS’s data, analytics, and storage practice. Louise unpacks COST, the six-pillar framework her team built by studying what actually separates hypergrowth startups and billion-dollar sellers from partners who treat marketplace as a side project. We break down why operational excellence has to be in place before you ever enable your sales team, why executive sponsorship from the top of the organization is what keeps a marketplace strategy from collapsing into a single point of failure, and why product-led growth is no longer optional now that buyers, and increasingly AI agents, expect to try, buy, and deploy software without waiting on a human to close the loop, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwyAP7yVy3I Key Takeaways Success on AWS Marketplace requires a comprehensive framework like COST, not just a simple checklist of tasks. Your product must be something customers actually want to buy, not a subpar offering used merely to test the waters. Operational excellence is required to ensure your marketplace motion has the sustainability to scale globally. Product-Led Growth (PLG) is essential for enabling frictionless procurement, especially as buyers shift toward agent-driven AI solutions. Executive sponsorship is critical; building a strategy without leadership buy-in will prevent it from gaining real traction. Sales alignment ensures reps are appropriately compensated and friction is removed, preventing them from avoiding marketplace transactions. If you're ready to lead through change, elevate your business, and achieve extraordinary outcomes through the power of partnership—this is your community. At Ultimate Partner® we want leaders like you to join us in the Ultimate Partner Experience – where transformation begins. Key Tags AWS Marketplace framework, COST methodology, product-led growth, agentic procurement, hyperscaler ecosystem, operational excellence, revenue friction, private offers, co-sell acceleration, strategic collaboration agreements, resilient architecture, cloud commitments, organizational transformation Key Tags Louise Strandoo Audio Episode [00:00:00] Louise Strandoo: Salespeople, rightly so. They don’t wanna introduce something that’s going to add a complexity to the deal. They’re like, why would AWS wanna be involved? [00:00:11] Vince Menzione: You can feel it happening. The ecosystem is shifting beneath us, the way Hyperscalers are partnering, how AI’s remaking the channel and what it means to win in 2026. [00:00:22] Louise Strandoo: Welcome to the Ultimate Partner Podcast. I’m Vince Menzi. Own [00:00:26] Vince Menzione: your host. And each week I sit down with leaders at the intersection of technology, partnerships and outcomes. The voices shaping how ecosystems actually work. We talk about what’s real, what’s changing, and what it takes to lead in this era where the partner channel isn’t just part of the strategy. [00:00:45] Vince Menzione: It is the strategy because being in the room changes everything. Let’s start. [00:00:53] Louise Strandoo: And Louise Strand, come on out. Come on up. Uh, our first, our first [00:00:59] Vince Menzione: Amazon executive at, at this session. Not our first ever, but our first at this session. [00:01:06] Louise Strandoo: Happy to be [00:01:07] Vince Menzione: thrilled to have you. I, why don’t we sit down on an, um, I’ll have you sit here and, you know, you get, take one of the ultimate partner pillows with you since you’re a first assignment attend. [00:01:15] Louise Strandoo: Wonderful. [00:01:16] Vince Menzione: Uh, [00:01:16] Louise Strandoo: good [00:01:17] Vince Menzione: to hear. So great to have you. I thought maybe we’d start, maybe, uh, with you, uh, explaining your role. Then we can start talking about costs, which is the subject is like near and dear, and we’ll talk about that, about what that is. But I want to keep people on their pins of their seats right now. [00:01:33] Vince Menzione: So tell us, tell us more about you and your role and your journey at AWS. [00:01:37] Louise Strandoo: Yeah, well thanks for having me. Good to see everybody in the room. Um, so my name’s Louise. I have spent the better part of the last nine and a half years at AWS and I spent almost that whole time, probably around eight years. In AWS Marketplaces business Development organization, um, I joined to help startups figure out how to scale their business on the marketplace. [00:02:00] Louise Strandoo: And from there, I grew into a number of different roles, helped ISVs figure out how to scale their marketplace business of all sizes. Um, I worked with some of our top sellers on the marketplace, figure out how to really scale their revenue through the marketplace. Today I am actually the lead of the data analytics and storage partner development team. [00:02:20] Louise Strandoo: Nice. Within the US Tech partnerships organization. So it’s been a really cool transition to go from like all marketplace focused. And throughout that time, marketplace kind of became the center of partnerships. Yep. Within our partner program. Um, so now I manage PDMs and partners and we still talk a lot about marketplace. [00:02:40] Louise Strandoo: Also everything else that we do as a partner. So it’s, um, it’s been a fun journey. [00:02:45] Vince Menzione: And we were talking about this earlier, like you started with Marketplace and then moved out where all the other organizations started from partnership and moved into marketplace. Mm-hmm. Almost the other up. And you have built a framework costs [00:02:59] Louise Strandoo: mm-hmm. [00:03:00] Vince Menzione: Characteristics of successful sellers. And I have a set of operating principles about successful partnering. So I’m really intrigued about this conversation. I was hoping you could walk us through it, like what are these characteristics and where do most partners fall short in terms of characteristics? [00:03:18] Louise Strandoo: Yeah, so, um, like all really good things, cost was an effort that I built alongside a bunch of other really smart people. And we started to have this conversation about what does, uh, you know, what does success look like? We we’re focused in the beginning, in my marketplace journey on getting. Partners to sell on the marketplace, getting them to list and adopt the features. [00:03:41] Louise Strandoo: And of course they’re like, why would we do this? And we’re like, that’s a great question. Let’s figure out like really what the why of this whole thing is. And as we started to get partners who were startups and some of our really large partners activated, we started to see all kinds of value and how marketplace was helping co-sell and all this good stuff. [00:03:59] Louise Strandoo: And we needed to figure out like how do we identify what is like the lightning in the bottle? So we looked across some of the most, uh, hypergrowth companies on the marketplace. Mm-hmm. Some of those startups that had really propelled into major success stories. And then some of those like really scaled enterprise sellers, the one [00:04:17] Vince Menzione: that got to a billion dollars. [00:04:18] Louise Strandoo: Exactly. The market, our billion dollar market market. Billion dollar sellers. Right? Yep. And we looked at what are the common characteristics that all of those partners embody. Yes. And how do we kind of. Define a framework that is not a checklist because a lot of us were doing that at the time. Here’s all the things that you should do to make it work well. [00:04:34] Louise Strandoo: It doesn’t really work from partner to partner. Everyone has a unique go-to market strategy. Yeah, so we developed costs to kind of be this overarching tool that partners can use to say, do we have the right kind of fundamental approach to how we’re going to market with AWS and how we’re thinking about the marketplace. [00:04:51] Louise Strandoo: Do we have the right tools to like bring our overall go-to-market strategy to A AWS and to the marketplace so we’re not doing two separate things. That was sort of the genesis of the idea. Makes [00:05:02] Vince Menzione: a lot of sense. [00:05:04] Louise Strandoo: So, um, the characteristics, there’s six of ’em. I won’t go into detail about every single one. [00:05:11] Louise Strandoo: Oh, [00:05:11] come [00:05:11] Vince Menzione: on. We’ll do that one. Yeah. We have some people in the room that are gonna be intrigued by this. Go ahead. [00:05:16] Louise Strandoo: So, um, the first pillar is. Partnership with AWS, you can’t do marketplace without figuring out what, what’s your overall partner strategy, right? So how are you using the partner programs to drive differentiation in your business? [00:05:30] Louise Strandoo: Yep. How are you using our funding programs to elevate the parts of your business that you really wanna accelerate? Um, and how are you thinking about your partner strategy with AWS overall? [00:05:40] Vince Menzione: Interesting. [00:05:41] Louise Strandoo: The second one is, uh, selection on AWS marketplace. [00:05:44] Vince Menzione: Product selection. [00:05:45] Louise Strandoo: That’s right. [00:05:45] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:05:46] Louise Strandoo: You gotta have a product on the marketplace that your customers wanna buy. [00:05:49] Louise Strandoo: I think the biggest thing that partners have done wrong over the years is they think, let’s do crawl, walk, run. We’re gonna put something up there that we’re not, you know, really excited about, but we’ll see how it does and then we’ll try to invest from there. [00:06:03] Vince Menzione: Mm-hmm. [00:06:04] Louise Strandoo: If you put something out there that nobody knows how to sell, then that you’re not excited about, your customers aren’t probably excited about it either. [00:06:09] Louise Strandoo: There’s no reason it’s gonna do well in the marketplace. [00:06:10] Vince Menzione: Yeah. It makes no sense to me. [00:06:12] Louise Strandoo: Yep. So you gotta have something good. You gotta have your marquee product, and then you wanna use features that are gonna help buyers actually access that product in a way that’s frictionless. Yeah. The third one is operational excellence. [00:06:25] Louise Strandoo: So that’s looking at how are you structuring your organization and investing in all the right processes that you need to scale the business. Reporting at a global scale, understanding how to recognize revenue and thinking about all of the in-between moments of. Being on the marketplace, creating an offer, how does your sales team gonna get in touch with you when you need to send that offer out? [00:06:47] Louise Strandoo: And how are you making sure that an alliance person isn’t trying to find an outlet in a random corner of an airport to send a private offer to a customer? All of that structural stuff to make the, the motion scale. [00:07:00] Vince Menzione: So we’re talking product led growth versus. One off or [00:07:04] Louise Strandoo: all of it? All of it. Okay. No matter what kind of partner you are, you have to have operational excellence. [00:07:08] Louise Strandoo: Yeah. To make sure that your marketplace and your partnership motion has sustainability and scale. The next two, I’ll kind of go through fast. There is, yeah. Um, partner commitment to marketplace revenue. So what do you really want Drive from a revenue perspective, right. How do you get your leaders bought in on that, and how do you set a goal that dictates what you’re doing? [00:07:28] Louise Strandoo: And then how do you define sales alignment? From a structural perspective to say we’re gonna remove friction that could get in the way of the field selling this thing. We’re gonna remove things that are, um, negating reps from wanting to go through marketplace because it’s impacting their comp. Yeah. Or it’s really hard. [00:07:46] Louise Strandoo: All of that kind of structural stuff goes into the sales alliance. [00:07:49] Vince Menzione: So there’s, yeah. I wanted to take this apart a little bit too, if you don’t mind. No [00:07:52] Louise Strandoo: problem. [00:07:53] Vince Menzione: Because I think about this a lot. So when you start talking about an organization, you’re talking about what this, we’ll call it an ISV Sure. Or an si, but. [00:08:00] Vince Menzione: You know, ISPs primarily is where it all started. They need to get their internal operational excellence. Right, exactly. Which means their, their ops piece. Yep. And their sales execution. They’re gonna to market all those things. The sales alignment side. Is that their sales teams [00:08:18] Louise Strandoo: correct. [00:08:19] Vince Menzione: Are compensated properly so that they don’t go around the systems. [00:08:22] Vince Menzione: Exactly right. They’re aligned. They’re aligned to go drive the right results. [00:08:25] Louise Strandoo: Exactly. [00:08:26] Vince Menzione: Because they’ve made commitments as well. [00:08:28] Louise Strandoo: Yeah. [00:08:28] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:08:29] Louise Strandoo: And I always talk about marketplace, like it is transformation. It’s different. It’s not what you’re doing today. [00:08:35] Vince Menzione: That’s right. [00:08:35] Louise Strandoo: Salespeople, rightly so. They don’t wanna introduce something that’s gonna add a complexity to the deal. [00:08:43] Louise Strandoo: They’re like, why would AWS wanna be involved? Stay away. So if that is already there and then on top of that Mm, they don’t get paid as much when they go direct. [00:08:53] Vince Menzione: Right? Right. [00:08:54] Louise Strandoo: They’re not gonna go through the market nice. [00:08:55] Vince Menzione: No, they’re not. [00:08:55] Louise Strandoo: They’re not gonna bring anything to you and the partnership team saying like, Hey, we really wanna figure out how to make this engine work with AWS So we have to do as much as we can to remove that friction from the experience. [00:09:06] Vince Menzione: So, you know, you mentioned private offers, which made me think about like product-led growth versus private offers. ’cause it’s, it feels like marketplace from the beginning. It’s changed. It [00:09:15] Louise Strandoo: has, [00:09:16] Vince Menzione: you’ve been doing this for a number of years. You were first to market with a marketplace. There was, I’ll call a lot of friction because there was channels and other, other routes to market direct selling. [00:09:27] Vince Menzione: Tell us, take us through some of those experiences. Yeah, yeah. Like what was that like? And then obviously you built cos because you had a lot of field engagement with these organizations trying to get them to go do it the right way. [00:09:38] Louise Strandoo: Right? [00:09:39] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:09:39] Louise Strandoo: So it’s interesting actually, when we built the marketplace. [00:09:42] Louise Strandoo: It was completely like a product-led growth motion, as in let’s just figure out a way to let AWS customers find amis in the marketplace. Developers are gonna go get it, and they’re just gonna buy it without any additional push from the field or like co-sell. That doesn’t need to happen. Then we heard from customers, Hey, this is great. [00:10:02] Louise Strandoo: But what we really want is also to be able to buy bigger contracts. We wanna customize our contracts, we wanna negotiate price when we’re buying this on behalf of, you know, large organizations. We’re not just buying what’s on the shelf. We need something more custom. So we introduced this concept of private offers to make sure that we could bring all of that customization into the process. [00:10:23] Louise Strandoo: And then we heard from customers saying, uh, we want to purchase from our preferred channel partners. We really wanna make sure that we’re, you know, not losing that source of, um, engagement with our really critical partners. So we had to figure out, hey, how can we make it so that we’re not competing with the channel? [00:10:41] Louise Strandoo: ’cause we’re not really a channel at all. Right. So we had to go and build our platform that allowed for channel partners to sell through the marketplace and augment that private offer piece to say, Hey, if you want, you can have a channel partner resell your product through the marketplace. So today we kind of see all of those as just different routes to market and different ISVs are gonna embrace different routes to market. [00:11:04] Louise Strandoo: First, the really important thing about costs is that it’s. Pushing partners to think about bringing their go to market strategy that works outside of the partnership to the marketplace. Mm-hmm. So if you’re an ISV that doesn’t sell with channel today, don’t start with channel partners on the marketplace. [00:11:21] Louise Strandoo: Right. If you don’t do product-led growth today, probably figure that out before you start doing it on the marketplace. Yeah. But if you’re doing those things, if you’re not doing those things, you should look at why not, and could we be doing those things and then we have the ways to bring it into your strategy with AWS marketplace. [00:11:38] Vince Menzione: So what separates the partners who kind of build this flywheel of success that you describe from those who treat it maybe as a side project? And do you, do you see less and less of that today too? I wanna, I wanna ask you. [00:11:50] Louise Strandoo: No, I think, um, the more mature the marketplace gets [00:11:57] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:11:58] Louise Strandoo: The more obvious some of the, uh, characteristics of success become and the more important. [00:12:06] Louise Strandoo: Embodying that framework becomes for partners as they grow to become the next billion dollar seller, right? And become the next a hundred million dollar seller. Um, I think a couple things come to mind for me. The first thing is that like at AWS overall, we talk a lot about like resilient architecture. We talk a lot about what does it look like to drive successful transformation. [00:12:29] Louise Strandoo: All of that has to happen in the partnership. Partners that have really strong marketplace motions with AWS, they do not have single points of failure. They are not expecting an alliance lead to manage everything and then have the business collapse if they leave. [00:12:46] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:12:46] Louise Strandoo: They figure out how to delegate and get buy-in from leadership so that they have multiple folks invested in the strategy for multiple angles so that there’s scalability and sustainability. [00:12:58] Louise Strandoo: Without that. You could do all the things right with costs and if there’s res, if there’s no resiliency, if there’s, if there’s a single point of failure, it doesn’t scale and it doesn’t last. [00:13:09] Vince Menzione: It’s so funny ’cause you haven’t seen my seven principles of, of successful partnering, but we talk about growth mindset, we talk about executive commitment and then clarity on your vision and what you’re hoping to achieve. [00:13:21] Louise Strandoo: Yeah. [00:13:22] Vince Menzione: Like that’s your internal victory. You’ve gotta get those things right. That’s exactly what you just said. A hundred [00:13:26] percent. [00:13:26] Louise Strandoo: And you can’t, you, you know, like if you don’t have that executive sponsorship, [00:13:30] Vince Menzione: yeah, [00:13:32] Louise Strandoo: great. You’ve done the cost framework, but where are you gonna go with it? [00:13:35] Vince Menzione: And it’s not just the sponsorship, it’s. [00:13:38] Vince Menzione: Up in, from the top of the organization all the way down to the selling floor. Completely. Right? [00:13:42] Louise Strandoo: Completely. [00:13:42] Vince Menzione: Everybody has to be aligned. Resources, investments all need to be aligned to this. Mm-hmm. [00:13:47] Louise Strandoo: Mm-hmm. [00:13:47] Vince Menzione: We’re speaking the same language earlier. A hundred percent. I love it. I love it. I love it. Um, so what does, we talked about product-led growth, but I want to maybe jump in here a little bit more. [00:13:58] Vince Menzione: Because I think it’s, it’s becoming more prevalent today, isn’t it? Yeah. It’s like, you know, we talked about private offer. It was really private offers, at least my perspective was a few years ago, I wanna buy something from you. Oh, you have a cloud commitment. I can access the cloud commitment. [00:14:13] Louise Strandoo: Yeah. [00:14:14] Vince Menzione: And so it was always the private offer thing that was going on behind the scenes, which required a lot of internal resources to go drive. [00:14:19] Louise Strandoo: Yep. [00:14:20] Vince Menzione: Let’s talk about product led growth. ’cause that becomes a fly more of a flywheel that’s automated Yeah. And allows you to sell while you’re sleeping kind of thing, you know? [00:14:28] Louise Strandoo: Totally. [00:14:29] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:14:30] Louise Strandoo: So I think, um, we have heard a lot from customers saying, okay, when we really need to negotiate and we need something custom, we wanna be able to do that. [00:14:40] Louise Strandoo: But we also wanna be able to purchase things quickly. We don’t wanna have to go out to dinner every time we need to upgrade, uh, like our licenses and get a new contract. We wanna be able to experiment and pick the things that resonate best with the line of business users that are, you know, increasingly taking some of that buying power. [00:14:59] Louise Strandoo: And I think especially now that we’re entering into, you know, the unprecedented, unprecedented times, it’s everything is AI like. There is more, um, pressure than ever to have users quickly figure out, does something add value to me and my business right now? And if it does, then I’m gonna keep using it, and if it doesn’t, I’m gonna go to the next thing. [00:15:22] Guest: Right. [00:15:22] Louise Strandoo: Product led growth is really about eliminating some of that I would say. Paperwork at the start of the process and putting the power in the hands of the user to say, can this product solve your challenge? And as more and more buyers are looking at Agen solutions, they wanna be able to try something, see if it works, and then quickly buy it without having to go through a whole bunch of steps because they have work that needs to be done right now. [00:15:54] Louise Strandoo: So the marketplace, that was our roots, like we started with this PLG motion. So we have all of that foundation to do it, and we’ve spent a lot of time over the last two, three years, like really investing in that from our engineering and roadmap perspective to build a whole bunch of features and capabilities that support product-led growth. [00:16:11] Louise Strandoo: We have things like free trials request, demo request, a private offer if you want to. Um, we introduced something, you know, last year that was an express private offer experience. Hey, you know, you want custom pricing. Request it and we’re gonna give it to you right away because the vendor has populated rate cards. [00:16:26] Louise Strandoo: Right? So all of those things I think are really important right now to say, yeah, when your customers like, wanna get going, now let’s stop. Putting barriers in the way and let your product actually show its value immediately. [00:16:38] Vince Menzione: And you were actually putting buttons or making buttons available Yeah. For people’s websites. [00:16:42] Vince Menzione: Exactly. So they could just say, click here and [00:16:43] Louise Strandoo: buy. Absolutely. We buy with a Ws. You can click from your own website, your own marketing pages to route them to the marketplace. If that’s the preferred way to transact, [00:16:50] Vince Menzione: yeah, why not? [00:16:51] Louise Strandoo: Yeah. [00:16:52] Vince Menzione: So you mentioned ai. We talked a little bit, I call it the tectonic shifts. [00:16:56] Vince Menzione: We, we’ve seen this incredible transformation happening so fast. And now we’re talking about agents. Right. And, uh, John Yo was over here from, uh, earlier from Sugar talking about like, what happens if the buyer is an agent? [00:17:08] Louise Strandoo: Totally. [00:17:09] Vince Menzione: Let’s talk about that. [00:17:10] Louise Strandoo: Yeah. I mean, I think that PLG and like is the right thing to enable a agentic procurement. [00:17:18] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:17:19] Louise Strandoo: If, um, you know, like in the, uh. 2019 when private offers were like, that was the big boom. We were like getting people to sign up on the marketplace. All we were focused on was private offers. So many sellers would have products on the marketplace where you’d click and purchase it and it would just say, thanks for buying, and it’d be like, we’ll get in touch with you and like a 24 hours and then we’ll figure it out. [00:17:42] Louise Strandoo: No worries. Thanks for buying. If that doesn’t work. If you’re an agent, it doesn’t work. An agent would be like, okay, this is like a dead end, right? Yeah. Agents are gonna look for products that they can purchase and begin using instantaneously. So yeah, product-led growth is like a really good, um, strategy that ISVs can use to future proof their business and make sure that they’re not just catering to an evolved. [00:18:06] Louise Strandoo: You know, procurement persona who maybe is looking for that faster transaction, but also preparing for that agent persona. Yeah. That is gonna be helping make software procurement scale. [00:18:17] Vince Menzione: So what do the partners in the room need to do to rethink how they think about this? [00:18:22] Louise Strandoo: I think there’s a couple things. I think you know, number one, you can look at the cost framework and start to use it as a jumping off point to evaluate your business. [00:18:31] Louise Strandoo: You can look through a bunch of resources that we’ve put out around costs, and one of the first blogs that I wrote has a Buzzfeed style quiz. You can go through and be like, where are we at? And if you realize after you run through that exercise that you’re farther away from where you wanna be in terms of partnering with AWS, it’s a really good dump like starting point to be like, great, here’s the challenges. [00:18:56] Louise Strandoo: But the biggest message I would relay to the partners is. Do not wait to try to go build this and then bring it to your executives and say, look what I built. It’s not gonna go anywhere. You need to go and use that as the cry to your leadership team. Like escalate. Now here’s the opportunity that we have with AWS. [00:19:17] Louise Strandoo: Let’s look at all of the awesome studies that we and our partners have put out over the years. Look at your competitors that are in the marketplace, your competitors that are partnering with AWS, and start there by saying, we’re. Behind or we’re missing in these areas. We could be doing, you know this, to make our product more a ag agentic ready. [00:19:37] Louise Strandoo: We could be doing more in marketplace to ensure that we’re capitalizing on the private offer business, and we need to figure out how we’re gonna drive commitment now so we can go and build this if you try to build it. Then show the value later. It’s gonna be really hard to then be pushing that boulder up the hill. [00:19:55] Louise Strandoo: So the more that you can lean into getting the sponsorship early on, you’re gonna have a much easier time then navigating, you know, all the hard work that comes with partnership co-sell, um, and, and everything kind of fun that we get to do once we get to go to market with our partners. [00:20:10] Vince Menzione: Do you have one piece of advice for each one of the. [00:20:13] Vince Menzione: Conditions or characteristics for, for, for this group to follow or [00:20:17] Louise Strandoo: think about? I think that, um, the, we didn’t talk about the last one, which is a good one to end on, which is enablement. [00:20:22] Vince Menzione: Yes. [00:20:23] Louise Strandoo: Enablement starts with like most of the time, ISVs in particular, and this, it goes for channel partners as well. [00:20:30] Louise Strandoo: They’re like, we gotta enable the field go and enable all the salespeople why they should do all this stuff. You have to do these things like in some sequence though. So if you go and enable the field, everybody do marketplace and they’re like, how? Where do we go, right? Do we send you the leads? Are we slacking you? [00:20:47] Louise Strandoo: Like are we emailing? Like what do we do? You have to then go back and be like, actually, our operational excellence isn’t sorted out. We need to do that first. And who needs to be enabled from that side of the house? Like don’t forget to enable your rev ops teams, your deal desk teams, all of the teams that are kind of essential to making your partnership with AWS Hum need to be enabled in the way that is relevant for their business. [00:21:10] Louise Strandoo: So when you, you know, think about like what do you need to do across all the pillars? It’s gonna be different depending on what your go-to-market focus is. If you’re a hundred percent focused on selling through SIS today and through channel, maybe product-led growth is not the top priority, but then you need to go and figure out, okay, so how have we. [00:21:28] Louise Strandoo: Figured out which partners we wanna work with on AWS and how have we enabled them and have we communicated that enablement to our salespeople? Are we removing unnecessary barriers to them transacting? That’s what you really gotta figure out. So it’s really about looking at how you execute outside of marketplace, outside AWS, figuring out what that, what are the strongest pieces that you do in your business today, across those pillars, and then asking to replicate that with your partnership with AWS. [00:21:56] Vince Menzione: Nice. So to the room here is, um, if someone in this room doesn’t, does one thing differently on the marketplace, what should it be? [00:22:08] Louise Strandoo: There’s so many things I can think about. I think like first [00:22:12] Vince Menzione: you’re coaching ’em [00:22:13] Louise Strandoo: individually, [00:22:13] Vince Menzione: by the way. Just think about it that way. [00:22:15] Louise Strandoo: One of the first things like, it depends on where you’re like, where you’re at in your journey. [00:22:18] Louise Strandoo: So like, quick show of hands, who is, um, a partner that is like using the marketplace today? [00:22:26] Vince Menzione: There’s quite a few actually. [00:22:27] Louise Strandoo: Okay. Awesome. Thank you for helping drive the marketplace. So for those of you that raised your hands, like my sentiment to you all would be figure out how you are incorporating marketplace as the center of your strategy with AWS. [00:22:44] Louise Strandoo: We are increasingly using marketplace as the point of scale for all things about partnership. All things funding are like increasingly requiring some hook into marketplace. So we can actually provide more funding and scale increase like more. So think about like how do you use marketplaces that like center of your partnership, um, for those of you that are not on the marketplace today and are thinking like, is this something that is valuable to me? [00:23:15] Louise Strandoo: Is this something that I should think about and do? You should absolutely. Go look at who are your competitors? Who are the folks that are already out there on the marketplace and, and why aren’t you there? And then you should start to look at what are the characteristics of successful sellers to map out What could we do and what’s the kind of order of operations that we should take to figure out like, how do we get there? [00:23:40] Louise Strandoo: How do we have a plan from the beginning to get buy-in for our partnership with AWS so that we’re not going about it, expecting that it’s gonna just like drive a bunch of leads to the business. It’s not what it does well, but it is gonna help accelerate the way that you co-sell with AWS, which can be a tremendous value add when done appropriately. [00:23:58] Louise Strandoo: So I think, yeah, like figure out the right way that it’s gonna unlock business value depending on what’s most important to your priority. Um. Today [00:24:08] Vince Menzione: we have about three and a half minutes, and I, I’m eager to see if there’s any questions. I, I, um, I, John’s right here with the mic and I love that. I love the, want to get the interaction here in the room. [00:24:19] Louise Strandoo: Yeah, [00:24:20] Vince Menzione: it’s a great group. [00:24:25] Guest: Oh, [00:24:29] Vince Menzione: can they light up that mic? Maybe [00:24:33] Louise Strandoo: Good. [00:24:37] Vince Menzione: There you go. That’s fine. There you go. It’s working. Alright. [00:24:41] Guest: Thank you so much. This is a really great presentation, first of all. I love it. Um, I’m actually part of the, uh, the GSI, so I work cognizant. My name is Ana Hill, um, and I’m manage alliances with ServiceNow. Um, our goal is in the really near future to really engage with all the hyperscalers in sell. [00:25:00] Guest: So that’s one thing. But my interesting, my question is how do you, how, how does AWS measure success? Of the partners who are on your platform, what are the metrics? How do you determine which partners are actually successful and what other partners can use to learn from that? [00:25:19] Louise Strandoo: Yeah, that’s such a great question. [00:25:21] Louise Strandoo: So, um, something that I think is like super helpful that you bring up is cost is not a, um, a scorecard that says everybody that does all these things is a good partner. It’s basically inputs that we have come up with that are supposed to help with the partnership outcomes. Um, so partners, we measure a whole bunch of different things. [00:25:47] Louise Strandoo: I think PDMs and my team carry goals across like seven different categories. There’s a couple of big things that we look at. We look at the revenue that you drive through the marketplace, so whether that’s through private offers or through your self-service business or through. Selling through a reseller, or if you are the reseller, like what is that resell business or driving? [00:26:05] Louise Strandoo: Um, we look at what are the opportunities that you’re bringing and sharing with AWS and that you’re launching. So through our lead sharing mechanism. Not only what are you launching, but what are you sharing with us that is qualified that you’re bringing the field into? Um, we look at things like migrations and migration, realized revenue. [00:26:25] Louise Strandoo: How are you helping drive customers to the cloud? And how are you helping customers not just get everything set up, but you start actually using it. Um, so we really are gonna look across like a multitude of those metrics and when we look at like which partners are kind of leading the way. We’re gonna start to look at the revenue in those buckets, right? [00:26:44] Louise Strandoo: Like who’s sharing and bringing and growing with us? Who’s bringing more opportunities to engage before it happens on the marketplace? Who’s actually completing that transaction? And then who are helping who, who are the partners? Kind of like leading those big types of transformations, migrations, and, and realize revenue. [00:27:00] Louise Strandoo: This is really great. Yeah. Yeah. [00:27:04] Vince Menzione: Thank you. Any other questions? Come on. We’ve got 30 seconds left. We have time for that one last question. Run over there. John. Come on. [00:27:17] Guest: Thank you again, a great, uh, presentation. One question I had is, uh, this morning, right Jay from, uh, oia, right? He identified a whole bunch of, uh, companies that are doing. [00:27:28] Guest: More than a billion dollars in revenue with AWS. [00:27:30] Louise Strandoo: Mm-hmm. [00:27:31] Guest: What would you say are one or two top qualities among these companies that help some drive? I can give [00:27:36] Louise Strandoo: six. And they’re all of these. Yes. [00:27:39] Vince Menzione: The cost, [00:27:40] Louise Strandoo: but like, I think, um, so I love it. Yeah. My, my team we’re working on some content to better capture, like Yeah. [00:27:48] Louise Strandoo: You, you’ve gotten there, you’ve done the six basic things. Now what happens when you’re a billion dollar business? What does it look like there? It’s a lot of the same stuff, right? Like billion dollar billers on the marketplace. They embody that resilience, for example, in their operational mechanisms. [00:28:03] Louise Strandoo: They’re moving beyond the point of there being like one person that creates private offers and they’re like just part of the partnership team. They activate their, um, their deal desk to really manage private offers and marketplace business at scale. They’re integrating their pipeline to share deals proactively through their CRM system and they have really targeted enablement that is. [00:28:24] Louise Strandoo: Really pushing to the field to make sure that every person in their team understands the value of cloud value of AWS and how marketplace accelerates the pipeline. So the more mature that you become as a marketplace seller, like the more that cost is relevant to help keep you on track and be that kind of north star to say like, you could do a cool bunch of stuff with us, but here’s really where you wanna check and see, like what can you do to evolve the business to the next stage? [00:28:49] Vince Menzione: What you’ve said is so like impactful and we have some experts in the room that do this. They help these organizations better understand it’s really getting into your field organization to help them understand how to. How to show up for meetings with AWS re, like how to, how to, uh, co-sell together, how to think about going after these opportunities. [00:29:09] Vince Menzione: What, when you’re, when you’re talking to customers, potential customers about their cloud commitments, like what are the right questions to ask in the pro? There’s so many things, like I’m sure the costs six has like 150 each [00:29:21] Louise Strandoo: Easily [00:29:21] Vince Menzione: steps. Yeah. You know, to it. [00:29:24] Louise Strandoo: Yeah. And I think like, just to follow on that. [00:29:26] Louise Strandoo: Um, we have partners who have gone and they’ve been like, okay, we’re getting a strategic collaboration agreement with AWS. We’re getting funding, and if they don’t have this, it doesn’t work. It doesn’t work. It fails. So this is really like, yeah, it’s about building that resilient architecture to say, if we go big, do we have the execution plan to succeed? [00:29:47] Louise Strandoo: You can’t start with a plan to say, give us a bunch of funding and we’ll go do it. Your salespeople will say. Know what that is. Don’t care. Yeah. So you have to put all of that, you know, all of those building blocks in first to make sure that we can actually execute. [00:30:01] Vince Menzione: You need alignment from the executive suite down to the selling floor. [00:30:05] Louise Strandoo: A hundred percent. [00:30:06] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:30:06] Louise Strandoo: Yep. [00:30:06] Vince Menzione: That’s really what it’s all about. [00:30:07] Louise Strandoo: Yep. [00:30:08] Vince Menzione: Louise, thank you so much. It’s been incredible. So great to have you join us. Thank you [00:30:15] so [00:30:15] Louise Strandoo: much. Yes, thank [00:30:16] Vince Menzione: you. [00:30:16] Louise Strandoo: Thank you, [00:30:16] Vince Menzione: thank you. Thanks for listening to The Ultimate Partner Podcast. If today’s conversation resonated. Share it with a partner leader in your network. [00:30:26] Vince Menzione: Subscribe where you listen, and head over to the Ultimate partner.com for show notes related content and the resources for this episode. And if you haven’t already, now’s the time to register for the Ultimate Partner Live event in Reston, Virginia, October 26th through October 28th. Until next time, keep showing up in the rooms that matter because being in the room changes everything.

Noah Hopton, CEO and Founder of Finvisor, helps startups and growing businesses simplify operations by building integrated back-office teams that combine accounting, finance, payroll, HR, insurance, and technology. By combining experienced financial professionals with modern technology, Noah enables businesses to streamline operations, stay compliant, and focus on sustainable growth.  In this conversation, Noah introduces The Adjacent Extension Framework—Earn the Trust, Build the Relationship, Listen for Other Problems, Connect Other Specialists, and Empower the Team with Tech. He explains why proactive service creates lasting client relationships, how solving adjacent business challenges leads to sustainable growth, and why integrated back-office teams outperform disconnected vendors. Noah also shares how AI is reshaping finance operations by automating repetitive work, empowering finance professionals to focus on strategic decision-making, and helping businesses leverage technology to enhance—not replace—human expertise. — How to Outsource Your Back Office with Noah Hopton  Good day, listeners. Steve Preda here with the Management Blueprint Podcast, and my guest today is Noah Hopton, the CEO and Founder of Finvisor, helping seed and Series A companies that have outgrown spreadsheets and part-time bookkeepers but aren’t ready for a full-time finance team yet. Their job is to give you the financial clarity to make good decisions at every stage of growth. Noah, welcome to the show.  Yeah. Pleasure to be here, Steve.  Well, great to have you here, and I’m very curious about your career and your business and what you built here. I’m particularly curious about your personal ‘Why’ and how you manifest it in your business.  Personal ‘Why.’ That’s great. Well, I’ll be honest, I didn’t go in thinking I was going to be an accountant or run an accounting firm. You know, I studied accounting in school. Eventually, I thought I was going to probably be more in a kind of front-of-house sales relationship because I enjoyed the people part—making relationships and meeting people.  But I was very fortunate that I found the consulting, fractional CFO world, where I got to discover a love of problem-solving, creating relationships, and creating value for clients. For me, it was kind of this love of helping clients understand their business, helping clients understand what to think about around the corner, where it's not just being in-house with one set of books that you're closing.Share on X  When you’re at Finvisor, my day-to-day, at least when I started, was probably working with 10 to 12 clients a month and helping them understand, “Okay, how did they perform last month? Can they hire a certain number of people? And what’s the plan going forward?”  Yeah, I mean, that’s super helpful. I started life in accounting as well with KPMG, and what attracted me was to essentially have that language of business so that I would be able to understand how a business works and have this confidence of not flying blind, right? That’s really, really cool. So how did you evolve from a CFO into a founder? What was the trigger point for you?  So I was very fortunate. I actually was at a prior firm at one point when I started my career, and they were a little bit like the cobbler with bad shoes, where eventually they decided they had to close shop, and clients were going to be given notice. I, myself, was given notice saying, “Hey, in a week, you’re not going to have a job, Noah.” And so I was really given this moment in life, saying, “Hey, if I enjoy what I’ve been doing, do I think I could do it better than the firm I’d been at?  And do I want to make this leap into being a founder and starting a business?” And so my co-founder and I both talked to each other and said, “Look, we love our clients. We love what we’ve been trying to build. I think we just need to do a little bit of a refresh and restructuring of how this operates.” And so we started our own company. I was very lucky that I started with about, I had about 30 clients and a team of four on day one, which I think is unusual.  Most people in the accounting space start off as a one-person shop, trying to grow from one to two, and having to double their clients or double their size to get there. We were fortunate to have five team members and 30 clients on day one. Originally, our vision was just, “Hey, let’s help with the fractional CFO and the bookkeeping,” but that really evolved over time as we added additional services and really understood where our clients were having problems in their back office.  What are the areas where maybe the insurance brokers they’d been working with weren’t very hands-on and kind of came in once a year? Our clients were asking us, as their CFO, “Hey, can you help us select our health insurance?” And we’re like, “Well, we’re kind of doing the broker’s job. Why don’t we build out our own team?” So that was one of the first verticals we moved into and added by building an insurance brokerage. From there, we kept building, where now not only do you have your CFO and accountant helping you, but you also have them with the ability to go out to market, help you compare quotes, and help get your insurance in place. So you’re essentially expanding the array of virtual services that you’re providing, or fractional services that you’re providing, to your clients?  Correct. Yeah. We really try to own the full back office end to end because I think a lot of people deal with, “Okay, great, I have a bookkeeper, I have a tax accountant, I have an R&D tax provider,” and they’re dealing with four or five different vendors that don’t really communicate. The client is the person playing telephone between the two, and we’re like, “Wait, stop. Why is this the solution?” We should just build a different business where it’s all under the Finvisor umbrella.  It’s all full-time team members who are actually working together on behalf of the client, even if fractionally. Some of our clients only need five hours of a payroll specialist, but they need someone to own that role, and they need that person to be able to talk to their sales tax team because it’s like, “Oh, we hired someone in a new state. Is sales tax applicable there?” And connect those dots because, when you have these disconnected providers, you have a lot of things that can drop because they’re not in people’s field of view.  Yeah, I mean, it’s a great service. If you can get a competent team that will take care of your back office, then you can focus on figuring out message-market fit and then essentially scaling revenue. You don’t have to worry about it, and you don’t have to babysit inexperienced people that maybe you can afford to hire, but who would not be able to own the job.  Yeah, exactly. I mean, it’s kind of the, “Do you want to…” You know, I think at least when we started in 2014, there was more of a generalist bookkeeper. That’s kind of the typical solution people went with. Nothing against that, but it’s kind of nice to have dedicated specialists in the different back-office areas that you need. I mean, bookkeepers are great.  They’re usually not your best payroll and HR people. They’re not thinking about California final-paycheck laws, or whether you need to offer a 401(k) if you hire someone in California. Whereas, if you have someone whose entire job is payroll and HR, and you need Finvisor to help run your payroll, they’re going to be thinking about those edge cases and helping you along so that you can just build your business, get to the next milestone, and not worry about tripping yourself up because of compliance, taxes, or a lack of visibility in your reporting. Yeah, that’s great peace of mind. So this podcast is about frameworks, and I wonder, what is your framework? How do you help your clients, or how do you figure things out? What have you developed? We’re about 400 frameworks in, so I’m looking for something unique that helps you and is easy to explain—three to five steps maximum.  Yeah. I mean, one of the ones that comes to mind for us is what we’ve really called the Adjacent Extension Framework. So, first, do really good work and earn your client's trust in one area. Makes it easy for them to approach you.Share on X For us, it’s historically been accounting. People think, “Great, get my books put together.” But for us, it’s really about creating a relationship and earning the client’s trust.  Then, as step two, listen for the other problems they’re having. What are the adjacent problems they’re asking you to solve? And then for us, what we’ve really done is double down in those other areas by building specialists in those verticals. Once you’ve earned the client’s trust, if you’re doing their accounting and all of a sudden they’re struggling with invoicing or collections, you can say, “Hey, we can also help you with accounts receivable and collection efforts because we see your AR balance increasing on your financial statements.” At that point, they’re already thinking, “Great, I like working with this person.  Let’s give their team a try and help us solve another problem.” So, for us, it’s really been about finding those adjacent problems, building a team that specializes in them, and then connecting the client with the right expert. The last piece that’s really coming to market now is using technology to empower the team. Historically, a lot of our value came from having experts who could handle the edge cases or the gray areas between payroll, accounting, taxes, and sales tax. Now, with technology, you can also build the data infrastructure to highlight what’s happening for the client while helping guide the team as they manage those clients.  Love it. So what I’m hearing is, number one—or maybe even number zero—is do a great job, right?  The trust.  Okay. So that’s maybe another way of saying it: earn the trust. But is doing a good job enough to earn that trust, or is there more to it?  I mean, I think in any service business, you want to be proactive. A lot of bookkeepers, accountants, and even legal professionals are usually waiting for the client to ask a question before providing an answer. I think the goal should be to think ahead for the client and proactively provide guidance. That came naturally for us because we sit in the fractional CFO seat.Share on X  But even if you’re just doing bookkeeping, you can still catch these things for clients and help them out. Or if you’re selling P&C insurance and helping clients with their general liability coverage, you can think about what other types of coverage they may need. So I’d say the more proactive you can be, the better. The other thing is meeting clients where they already are.  For us, a lot of our clients are on Slack, so we connect with them on Slack. We chat with them as if we were full-time employees because we don’t want the experience to feel different. We don’t want you to feel like you’re emailing a generic support inbox and not knowing when someone is going to get back to you. If you only need fractional-level support, it shouldn’t feel like you’re getting fractional value or a fractional level of communication.  I love it. So you actually own the function inside the organization, so it feels like you’re part of the team, or your people are part of their team. So that builds the trust. So, do a great job, or earn the trust, number one. Number two, build the relationship. Number three, listen to other problems that they might have. Number four, connect them to other specialists. And number five, empower the team with technology.  Yeah. That’s a lot of it. I mean, as an advisor, we’ve grown… I mean, 60% of our growth comes from client referrals. So I think you know you’re doing something right if clients are recommending you to their friends and network. And so hopefully, if someone’s listening to this and you’re not getting referrals, you should be thinking about, “How do we either create more trust for our clients to be referring us, or how do we become more top of mind when clients are having these conversations?”  That’s great. So 60% of your growth comes from referrals. What’s the other 40%? How do you drive growth? What drives growth for you? What’s the other way to drive growth besides referrals?  Yeah. I mean, I think it’s also being connected with the ecosystem that you’re in. In our space, there are a lot of technology partners. Think about Xero, which is an accounting software, QuickBooks Online, NetSuite, payroll software like Rippling, Bill.com. They all have accounting partnerships, and the more you can build with them and grow your team alongside them, clients will reach out to them and say, “Hey, do you have someone who can help us set up Bill.com or help us set up Rippling?  We don’t have a payroll team to do our state tax registrations.” So we’ve seen a lot of good momentum as our software partners start sending us clients to help us grow. I think the other area is trying to figure out where you can have partnerships that will do introductions. We’ve been very fortunate in partnering with a number of VCs. Obviously, the VCs have worked with us because we’re on the board, or we had a mutual client. A lot of them will start to build partnership channels, and it’s a great opportunity.  They’ll say, “We just invested in this company, and you should go talk to Noah’s team to help with your accounting or your fractional CFO.” So it’s really about finding those tangential operators or entities that complement whatever you’re doing.  So are these primarily personal relationships that need to scale, or do you have a way to scale this across other people in your organization—this ability to develop partners? Or is it mainly you?  It depends on the role. A lot of our fractional CFOs on the team continue to build relationships. I would say probably 40% of our new clients come through a channel that’s not through me. There’ll be other people on our team who have built relationships with another VC or another software company. I think one of the key things we’ve always focused on is hiring people who are very, I would say “doers” might be the wrong word, but people who can self-manage and be project managers.  If you find the right people who can take a step back and look at the bigger picture, I mean, sometimes people come to Finvisor and they don’t realize that we ourselves are a business. Yes, you’re doing accounting like you were in-house and getting the books closed, but if you do good work and you realize clients are having problems, you have to think, “Hey, how can I help clients more and also help Finvisor create a win-win?” A lot of times, when we’re hiring, we’re trying to find people who have that type of drive to continue building and helping us internally, and not just do one part of the puzzle they’re responsible for. That might not be the most direct answer, but I would say a lot of it is hiring—making sure it's not just me leading the growth, but me building a team that can help lead the growth outside of just me.Share on X  Yeah. So how do you share the context so that your team members can connect the dots as well as you can? What’s your approach to that?  There’s a couple of ways we’ve done it. One way is we use a note-taker that then feeds into our CRM. For all client communication, whether they meet with us on Zoom or Google Meet, the transcripts are put into a centralized hub for us. It also connects to our CRM in terms of what we’re doing for the clients. At any point in time, someone can ask, “Hey, what’s going on with this client?” They can understand, “Great, this is what the payroll team talked to them about this week.  This is what the CFO team talked to them about last month. These are the problems they’ve been bringing up.” So we can capture that information without it having to be provided orally every single time, and without having to rely on a chat or an email to the team. There are some moments when it’s useful to give the team a larger update, but in general, it’s good to figure out a way to capture the essence of what you’re doing for your clients so that the team can then, in an AI chat-specific way, talk through, “Hey, great, what’s going on with this client? What are their needs? What has changed in the last six months? Who’s working on the client?”  I’ll have a VC that we’re talking to say, “Oh, we’re looking to invest in the CPG space and this type of vertical. Do you have any clients?” We’re at a point now where I don’t know every client. I usually have an idea about most clients, but there are definitely clients where I don’t know everything that’s happened in the last six months because I don’t talk to all 200 clients.  But I can go to our central hub to gain that information and understand, “Okay, great, which client is looking to fundraise and might want to be connected to this VC?” It’s a nice way to connect the dots. They’re looking to invest. The client is looking to raise. We also do brown-bag sessions. We’re a distributed team, so I think you have to be a little more intentional about how you educate the team. We’ll have weekly meetings where we walk through new technology, new changes in what we’re offering, new positioning, and continue educating the team in a more structured format.  The other thing we’ve done to help the team understand what’s going on is to make information as accessible as possible, similar to how we communicate with clients. So the team doesn’t have to log in to a pretty outdated CRM to pull information on a client. It’s either available directly in the Slack conversation or in a more modern tool like Notion, where you can easily search and find the information you want. So basically, you’re managing and harvesting your data and using that to feed people information about how they can develop partnerships. Is that what I’m hearing?  Yeah. And I think a lot of it is also figuring out which playbooks and processes are repeatable, documenting them better, and then educating the team around them. For example, with our fractional CFOs, we want to be in the board meeting. If we can be in the board meeting, A, we can help clients answer questions about their finances more easily, and B, it’s good to have visibility into what the board is saying about the business and where they want to go.  Then, obviously, the VCs are going to say, “Oh, great, this is Ian at Finvisor.” If he reaches out to me about a partnership, they’re going to have a better understanding of what we do because they’ve been in the room with us—or they’ve been in a virtual or in-person boardroom with us.  So you’re basically sharing the playbook so that they have a better understanding of what they can refer you for. Correct. Yeah.  So, switching gears here, Noah, what’s one thing that you’re trying to actively figure out in your business right now?  I mean, the question everyone is trying to figure out, at least in my space, is how they’re going to use AI in some fashion. That’s the kind of million-dollar question everyone keeps talking about—AI in accounting, AI in finance. Right now, we’re really structured in how we’re trying to use it and apply it. But the question I have is, what’s the next year going to look like? What’s five years going to look like as this technology gets more legs and more trust behind it? We’re pretty intentional about what we’re building and how we’re using some of the newer technology with AI. But I think there’s a lot that, at least for me, you have to continue to iterate. The world today feels different than it did three months ago. I’d say for most of Finvisor’s history—and this has been 12 years—it hasn’t felt like that, where a year later things might feel marginally different because we’re maybe 20% bigger or whatever might have happened.  Now, I think there’s a lot more excitement and unknown around technology and how it can either make people more efficient or help highlight and surface better issues that clients need to talk through. But I also feel like we’re in a moment where everyone’s trying to throw AI into every technology. So we're also trying to stay true to who we are, which is people first, relationships first—technology powering us, not being the solution.Share on X  So as you’re scaling AI to improve the information that your people have, your CFOs have, that presumably is going to lead to people doing less of the mechanical, repeatable tasks and more of the judgment tasks. So how do you scale judgment as you’re scaling the impact with AI?  On our side, I think it’s A, trying to organize and structure the data coming in. B, trying to create tooling that isn’t unique to one client but is built in a way that can be customized for each customer. A lot of the firms I talk to that are in the Finvisor space just take a blanket approach—turn Claude on for every fractional CFO, let them connect it to QuickBooks, and try to figure out their own playbooks.  That’s not how we’ve ever run the business. We don’t just hire accountants and let them run the accounting and see how the output turns out. We’re more focused on figuring out what is actually useful for review. Right now, I think AI has been most helpful around quality. It can definitely check that things are consistent and make sure edge cases are being caught.  I think we’re going to get to a future state where it’s not only making sure quality is at the 95th percentile of confidence, but also giving visibility into metrics like CAC, LTV, and churn—things that would normally take longer to pull together. Your fractional CFO might currently spend hours reviewing Stripe data or Shopify data to come to a conclusion. AI can cut out maybe 40% of that data-cleanup layer, where it’s like, “Okay, now they have the tools to dig in and understand what the underlying problem is,” instead of spending so much time cleaning up the data and getting everything organized.  So currently, at least my thesis is that it’s going to allow us to manage more clients because some of the day-to-day—I don’t want to call it busy work—but the work you have to do before you get to the exciting parts of the job will become more automated and less manual, like pulling data out of Stripe, Shopify, your CRM, or NetSuite.  So does that mean you’ll have a different type of people, maybe higher-level thinkers? Or do you think you can elevate your current team to that level?  Yeah. I think you’re… Sorry, I know I was originally answering this through the fractional CFO lens. Most of our fractional CFOs are already at the top of that organizational pyramid. For them, it’s really about helping them have cleaner data, better visibility into the actions they need to take, and better insight into what they should be reviewing and discussing with the client.  If I think more broadly about the back-office finance team, I do think a lot of the more generalist staff accountant and AP specialist roles won’t be spending as much time on the day-to-day blocking and tackling. If a client has 1,000 transactions a month flowing through their bank and credit cards, historically that accountant would sit in QuickBooks Online clicking “Okay, okay, okay,” reviewing every transaction and coding it. Eighty percent of those transactions will simply be coded automatically in real time as they come in. That leaves them to focus on the 20% that actually requires human judgment.  For me, the question is, can we continue to empower those people to be more impactful with that 20%? Are they the right people for that 20%? We’ve always tried to hire people who are proactive and broader thinkers, so I think we have the right team to step into that. If we’d built a traditional BPO model with an outsourced accounting team made up of people who were really just coding transactions at a basic level, I’d be more worried because getting those people to step up and handle edge cases is difficult.  But that’s not how we’ve historically built Finvisor. We’ve always tried to find people who are a little more… I’d rather hire an A-plus player than a B-player just because there’s some savings in the cost structure. I’d rather have the right people who can perform 80% of the time when they’re at bat than just hire someone because they’re cheaper.  Yeah.  Wrong baseball analogy there, but yeah.  Yeah, I understand. So you have A-plus people. Maybe the people who are doing more bookkeeping-type services—their jobs may become automated—but your A-players are going to have best-in-class information, and they can serve more clients that way.  Yeah. I still think that if you think about the typical accounting structure—if you’re working in-house and you have a bookkeeper and a controller—it’s still helpful. Depending on the size of the company, if you’re a small company, you probably won’t need that bookkeeper.  The controller can handle the edge cases and close the books. But at a certain scale, you’ll still want that junior resource supporting the controller so the controller can focus on the higher-level, more strategic work. I think people will simply be able to do more with less if they’re the right person. There will be people who, if they aren’t good at staying on their toes and figuring out edge cases, won’t be the right fit.  AI will probably replace some of those roles. But I think there’s a great opportunity for people who can think more strategically. They don’t have to be a CFO. They can just be a really smart bookkeeper who’s good at handling edge cases. They’ll simply be able to manage three times as many clients as they could when they had to code every single transaction.  Okay. If you had a magic wand and you could fix one thing in your business over the next 12 months, what would it be?  One area that we probably haven’t prioritized enough because of growth is SEO, AEO, and our overall sales build-out. Our paid advertising hasn’t been the strongest part of our business because it hasn’t been the top priority. If I had a magic wand, I’d have someone clean up our SEO and AEO visibility because I know clients love us and we do great work, but I don’t think we’re showing up the way I’d like from an SEO and AEO perspective. So that would be it. Yeah.  Yeah. Yeah. Love it. So, who are your ideal customers? Who do you want knocking on your door? Is it venture-backed companies primarily, or do you also work with private company founders? Who are your sweet-spot customers?  A lot of our clients are going to be in that 5-to-50-employee range, where they don’t need a full-time back office, a full-time accountant, a full-time CFO, or a full-time payroll specialist, but they need someone to own those roles. That way, we can put together the right Finvisor team to support them. We’ve intentionally made ourselves pretty modular, so while the largest group of our clients is in the tech VC world, we also have a lot of SMBs—law firms, beauty businesses, and other professional services businesses.  I would say that, if you looked at the Finvisor client base as a whole, you’d probably see a lot of startups. But we’re also starting to see more SMBs and more traditional businesses that don’t have VC funding but still need help with their accounting, bookkeeping, and modernizing their back office. So it’s a bit of both. Most of our clients are going to be in that 10-to-50- or 100-employee range, where they’re complex enough that they care about their financials and want to understand what they spent last month, where they’re going, and how they’re going to get there.  Earlier-stage companies are sometimes just a little too early. If you’re a one- or two-person company with just an idea, there’s a reason people think about their financials on more of a cash basis. They can think about the five clients they’re working with. Their bank balance ties pretty closely to their financials. There’s not a huge difference between the two when you’re a sole proprietor.  But as you start to evolve, that’s where Finvisor can provide more value. For all of our clients, we do accrual accounting, so we’re recognizing your revenue and your costs over the life of the service. As you start to grow and build, that’s really helpful. Obviously, if you’re at day one, it’s less impactful because you’re living more day to day, week to week, and month to month.  Steve Preda: Okay. So if we have those kinds of companies—which we do among our listeners—and they hear about this and want to fix their back office and outsource it to a reliable partner who can help them own those functions and give them good advice, what’s the best entry point? Where should they go, and how can they connect with you personally as well?  Yeah. hello@finvisor.com comes to me and the sales team. There’s probably a 95% chance you’ll talk to me if you reach out because I still love connecting with most new businesses that come through the door. The other area I wanted to call out that could be helpful for businesses is PEOs. PEOs are great, but I think at some point clients need to graduate from the PEO, and Finvisor is uniquely positioned to be both your insurance broker—helping you quote large-group plans—and your payroll and HR team to help you leave the PEO.  For a lot of our clients, once they pass that 100-employee mark, it’s like, “Great, we now qualify for a large-group plan,” which might have better rates than what they’re getting through the PEO. They just don’t have the team or bandwidth to get off the PEO. We’ll come alongside those larger companies and say, “Great, let’s quote a large-group plan for you. We’ll also put together a transition plan to register you in the 20 states where your employees are currently located.  We’ll make sure you get your workers’ compensation and employment practices liability insurance in place so there’s really no difference—apples to apples—from being in the PEO to running your own payroll.” We help with that transition because I’m always surprised to see companies with hundreds of employees still on a PEO, where the savings could be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars if they left. They just don’t have the internal team because they’ve always been on a PEO. They’ve never had to do state registrations, so they don’t know how to do them. Because of that, they’re usually not looking for an alternative path to get off that structure. We can at least review it with them and help them out if it’s a good fit. And just to remind our listeners what a PEO is, in case they don’t know.  Oh, sorry. Yeah. A PEO is a Professional Employer Organization. If you’ve heard of companies like TriNet or Justworks, they’re PEOs. In the health insurance space, there are four primary ways you can get health insurance. Most companies start with small-group plans in the early days because they’re state-mandated. For example, in California, if you’re under 100 employees, the rates my company gets would be the same rates Steve’s company gets if we’re both under 100 employees and we’re asking Blue Shield for a quote from the same ZIP code. That’s small-group insurance.  Then there’s level-funded, where carriers quote specifically based on your employee group. There’s large-group, which is somewhat similar but designed for larger organizations. Then there’s the PEO. Let’s say you’re a 10-person company. You don’t have enough employees to qualify for large-group health insurance, which is usually discounted because the risk is spread across hundreds of employees. The PEO says, “We’ll employ your team. Instead of you directly employing 10 people and buying health insurance for only those 10 people, we’ll employ your team and give you rates based on the 10,000 employees we already have.” PEOs are really popular in places like California and New York, where health insurance is very expensive.  But once you get above about 100 employees, you can usually qualify for your own large-group rates, which are similar to what the PEO is getting. The difference is that the PEO is generally marking up those rates because they need to make a margin on the plan. You can often get those rates directly yourself.  Yeah. That makes perfect sense. Okay. So if you’re listening to this and you’re building a venture-backed startup, or you’re the founder of a professional services firm, a law firm, or another small business with 10 to 100 employees, and you don’t yet have the budget—or maybe you simply don’t need—a full-time CFO, insurance advisor, HR leader, and other functional specialists, then reach out to Noah and Finvisor.  Check out what they have to offer and see what services might be a good fit for your business. Thanks, Noah, for coming on the show and sharing your expertise. It’s fascinating to see how this field is evolving, how you’re tapping into technology, and how you’re focusing on the highest-quality CFOs to help your clients. If you enjoyed this conversation, stay tuned.  Follow us on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Make sure you don’t miss an episode. Every week, we bring you exciting entrepreneurs and their best management frameworks. Thanks for coming, Noah, and thanks for listening.  Thanks, Steve. Appreciate it. Important Links: Noah's LinkedIn Noah's  website Noah's email: hello@finvisor.com

Competing in a Future World of Infinite Intelligence Navigation: Intro From Knowledge Workers to Judgment Workers The AI-Native Company: Org, Hiring, Culture The Human Element: Are We Underestimating It? Scenarios Our Take Conclusion Our co-hosts: Bertrand Schmitt, Entrepreneur in Residence at Red River West, co-founder of App Annie / Data.ai, business angel, advisor to startups and VC funds, @bschmitt Nuno Goncalves Pedro, Investor, Managing Partner, Founder at Chamaeleon, @ngpedro Our show:   Tech DECIPHERED brings you the Entrepreneur and Investor views on Big Tech, VC and Start-up news, opinion pieces and research. We decipher their meaning, and add inside knowledge and context. Being nerds, we also discuss the latest gadgets and pop culture news Subscribe To Our Podcast Nuno Gonçalves Pedro Introduction Welcome to episode 79 of Tech DECIPHERED. Today, we take a leap into the big unknown. This is a thesis episode, not your classic analysis, in-depth sharing episode. The big idea for this episode is that we may be approaching the cognitive age, and how would one, or how would a company compete in a world of infinite intelligence? The big idea, again, is that intelligence, which has been mostly scarce and expensive for all of human history, might become abundant and cheap. If that happens, what happens to work, what happens to companies, what happens to society? This episode will be really framing a lot of these discussions. From knowledge workers to judgment workers, addressing the AI native company and how does that change, going into the human element and whether or not we’re underestimating it, and finally, ending up going into scenarios, feasible scenarios of a future where, well, intelligence is abundant. Intelligence is quasi-infinite or infinite itself.Bertrand Schmitt Yes. Big questions for this episode 79. From Knowledge Workers to Judgment Workers We can start with from knowledge workers to judgment workers. Let’s go back first to how came the knowledge worker. It’s a 20th-century invention from Peter Drucker in 1959. The idea here is that that category might be splitting. The production of knowledge itself is on its way to being commoditized by AI. However, our perspective is that judgment around production of knowledge is not disappearing and is staying for a bit control managed by humans. What’s your take on this, Nuno? Do you agree with this split?Nuno Gonçalves Pedro I think it’s a little bit more profound than that. It’s not just judgment. Definitely, human judgment will be needed. We’ve seen agents perform all sorts of funny things in the wrong way when left alone to their own devices. Even some very well-known AI researchers coming forward and saying, “Hey, I tried to use this myself, and actually I messed up some of my systems,” or “I messed some of my code. I messed up some of my flows for a period of time.” I think just having human-in-the-loop from a judgment standpoint will be needed for a significant amount of time. That is something you can’t just delegate into machines, into algorithms, et cetera. The second part is, ultimately, there needs to be contextualization, and that contextualization, I think, comes from two forms. One from actual data, where the machine, I think, at some point will catch up, or the machines will catch up. The algorithms, at some point, on the data analysis will get better and better and have probably the closest to the truth that you can get, minus all the biases that are in the data, just to be clear, because data has a ton of biases. We’ve looked at this in the past and discussed it at prior episodes. But maybe on that, I think the machine has a chance to catch up, or the machines have a chance to catch up, so there’s less of distinctiveness from the human standpoint. But then, on just the attributes, the ability when you’re judging some situation, you’re in the middle of the situation. You’re judging the person and how it’s acting, in some ways, a lot of the things that end up happening, end up happening because there’s human interaction. There’s someone on the other side. I see how they’re delivering the message, how they’re implicating. We’ll talk about it later in the context of the organization and what changes in companies. I don’t think it’s just judgment. I think there’s a little bit more than that. One of the reasons I went to the dark side of management early on in my career from being an engineer was Peter Drucker and this notion of the knowledge worker, which he later on reemphasized with the publishing of his book, which for me was seminal and defined a lot of my career in life, the post-capitalist society, which is this notion that information rich and information poor is going to be the key distinctiveness that will happen in the world. The two big camps, information rich, information poor, which links back to this invention of the term knowledge worker, that knowledge is going to be key in some ways. I think that’s what we’ve seen for the last decades. Again, I think judgment is not going anywhere, but I think it’s beyond judgment. There’s elements of humanity and involvement that won’t go away anytime soon, where human-in-the-loop are particularly critical. We’ll discuss later some scenarios, but for me, that’s my stick in the ground. I think human-in-the-loop is going to be critical for many decades to come.Bertrand Schmitt While we are talking about all of this, and we share some possible scenarios, there is always that question. This is moving so fast right now. If you think about AI 10 years ago, AI 5 years ago, AI with the launch of ChatGPT 3, and then AI the past 2 years, now we have agents that are running at scale. Things are moving very fast. I can tell you, me in 6 months, the change has been pretty dramatic in terms of what I can use AI for. There is always that question that whatever we are thinking about cannot just be connected to what we were able to do 6 months ago or even today, we have to think and project ourselves at least in the next 6–12 months. Of course, we can go beyond that, and we will do that with some future scenarios, but it’s a very fast-moving, and it’s not clear yet where are the limits.Nuno Gonçalves Pedro I think that’s a very fair point. Let me try to analyze things that I don’t think will change anytime soon for the next few years. Agreed with you that many things will change, and we’ll have a lot better tools, platforms out there. That will be difficult to predict what exactly won’t change. I think there’s elements of humanity, and some of them do relate to judgment, like having good or bad taste, having a view on it, on whether something looks good or bad. Obviously, all of this sometimes is subjective, but some of it may not be as subjective as people think it is. The elements of contextualization. I think a little bit going back to what we did at Chamaeleon ourselves, where we built this platform, Mantis, and the objective of building Mantis was not really to replace us, was that it was a core augmentation layer in some ways that we would use investment or investor judgment as humans in the loop to systematize pattern recognition and a variety of other things, but that Mantis would really elevate all that judgment, not just in terms of timing, us being more productive, but also in terms of the quality of the decisions we’re making. Think of it as a little bit like having our human judgment in the context of operating Chamaeleon at a higher altitude, where we are more aware of the things that are happening and how they actually happen. The ability to really get to the data pieces and then make decisions on top of that that generate the needed alpha in our case for investors. What I mean by this is I think there’s always going to be core elements of humanity that I do think are going to be difficult for the machines to replace. For example, the taste piece people are like, “I can figure out what’s the taste in the market.” Yeah, but that’s mainstream. That doesn’t identify what’s the next big thing, which normally doesn’t start from mainstream. It starts from something else. It could start from opinion leaders and influencers. It could start by someone having a different way of addressing a problem and having a solution that hasn’t been thought through. For example, elements of creativity, I think, in human judgment and in human operations is something that I feel the machine will still have difficulty to replace.Bertrand Schmitt Let’s not forget how today current algorithms are working by feeding them enormous quantity of data, actually as much data as we can find. Finding more data is becoming a limitation these days. What it means is that it’s very hard for AI to think beyond its training data. There is some level of logic that’s being added, but at the same time, take the launch of the iPhone. What was the opinion before launch? Is that no, it doesn’t make sense. Not enough battery life, no keyboard, no this, no that. If you just base your analysis on what’s written out there, what’s being sold out there, you would just say, “It’s going to fail.” AI might really follow that more generic advice and perspective because that’s what in the training data and that’s what they’re in volume. It’s, of course, raising a lot of questions of, how do you improve the quality of the training data? How do you separate the weed from the chaff? There are a lot of questions there, and obviously, it will get better over time. But it’s still a critical part of how it’s working today. It won’t be that easy to change. I really like your point regarding Mantis, and I will say in general, platforms that you build with AI or leveraging AI capacity. Because when we say knowledge production is going to disappear, but we’ll keep judgment, it will be a different type of judgment because the quantity and quality of knowledge we will have in front of us to build our judgment will be very different. If suddenly we have for free the work of 10 interns or 5 junior analysts or whatever, and you can run that on nearly anything you do in life or at work, it’s completely dramatic. Your judgment was not used to be exercised so often because often you were missing quality data to have a judgment. Before it was a lot of finger in the wind and trying to smell something, but you didn’t have enough to make a serious analysis. Except if you are working as a strategy consultant, as you used to do, Nuno. That part is actually quite interesting. That the judgment itself will be exercised much more often and hopefully on the base of much more in-depth analysis for a lot of things. We will work very differently.Nuno Gonçalves Pedro We will go in-depth, faster and more fact-based, more data-based along the way. The question some of you might have right now is, is there some judgment that’s going to go away? Is there some judgment? We seem to be defining that there’s this organization, we’ll talk about it later, that goes from doers more into deciders. I think there’s some nuances to that, so I’ll just hit pause on that. In terms of judgment, obviously, there’s judgment that has been hidden over the years under the pretense of being wisdom, but it’s actually not wisdom. It’s just repetitive tasking, and it’s rules-based for the most. There’s a lot of judgment done, in particular in the white-collar space, that you could say it’s just reps. People have been doing it all along like that, and so therefore to say, “I’ve done it before like this, so I’ll do it the same way.” There’s actually no best in class, no analysis, no nothing. It’s just, “I’ve done it like that before.” I think that type of judgment will disappear because, again, algorithms will be as good, if not much better at that. They’ll be better at figuring out, actually, this would be the better way to do this. That’s how you play it forward. Then the question is, if there are fundamental, wise people in the organization, people that can really take that more complex elements of judgment, how do you go from the world we have today, which is a world of apprenticeship, where people come out of college, they go and work, and they learn their way, and therefore, hopefully over time, some of them, not all of them, we know that, but some of them will develop that wisdom to be great decision makers 15, 20 years down the road? How do we do that in a world that now is saying, “I don’t need people out of college because I can do it myself, and I can do individual contributor, and I can have agents doing the work that would require some manifestation of management in the middle.” Basically, “I don’t need this stuff. I don’t need you.” It’s a little bit the story we’re in. How do you create then this apprenticeship? How do we create then wisdom? My two cents on that is that wisdom, because of what we were just discussing and what, for example, myself and Bertrand was just saying, because of more often interactions with more data-stressed information and insights, what will happen is people will get better through their own reps in whatever form they’re doing, in day-to-day life, in internships, et cetera. In some ways, that will create the accelerated growth. It’s a little bit the interactions with agents and the interactions with our beloved AI algorithms that will create that growth over time and maybe not as much with other people. That still leaves the question around social interactions, but that’s probably the way this gets sorted. Apprenticeship gets sorted through the machine and the human having more interactions in effect.Bertrand Schmitt I agree with you because when we talk about apprenticeship, in some ways a lot of time was wasted on stuff that were not that important. But in a way, that was the price you had to pay in order to be there when people make the big decision to try to get some wisdom from that one hour of interactions that’s really useful and make a difference out of your full week. But the rest of your full week was just basic stuff that you had to do like a machine in a way. Why not let a machine do that? That, for me, is a big question. You could argue there is a transition period where it could be hard. For instance, if you can work hand in hand with AI smartly while you are doing your 4, 5 years of universities, you could graduate with a very different knowledge, perspective, judgment, skill set than anyone who graduated 5 years ago. I think that part will require a question around, “How do you change education?” You see what I mean? If you keep education the same way, expecting that the output is someone that should go now into 5 years of apprenticeship, that’s not going to work because companies will be, “No apprenticeship anymore.” On the contrary, you have to come much more knowledgeable and ready to use the tools. The tools are so efficient that the bar pretty high. You need to come already very well-grounded. If the education is not doing their job, that will be trouble. That part for me, I think is often forgotten. In some ways, the new-found importance of universities as a place to, and not just universities, the trade to really deliver people who are ready for the workforce. If on the business side, the expectation can change, of course, you have to change the education on the other side. My worry probably right now is that it doesn’t look like universities are in touch with what businesses are looking for, businesses are working on. Of course, that’s very worrisome because the cost of university has increased very significantly. It’s not clear quality of education has improved at all. If anything, it could be the opposite. It’s pretty scary. Of course, it’s going to raise a lot of questions. How much is education worth in that type of situation? Maybe another point because we talk a lot about apprenticeship, how this stuff was useful, but at the same time, if we go back in time, not long ago in the ’50s, if you wanted to be a developer, for instance, ’50s, ’60s, the job was very different. There was barely any programmation language out there. You had to use punch cards. Your time truly spent doing the coding was very limited. Once you had your stuff working, then, the debugging was a total nightmare. My point is that no one is looking back to that time saying, “You know what? It was great. It was a great way to learn and to do an apprenticeship for 5 years. To do that crappy job of punching cards for the boss.” There was little value in this. Guess what? Everyone is happy it’s not being done anymore by anyone. I think we also have to see what AI is bringing in a similar way is that everyone’s job is going to become quite different. There are a lot of big parts of the job who are not going to look back with fondness. Just looking back as, “Wow, that was very machine-like type of job. I’m glad I’m done with it.” People will want to jump directly to the next step. You don’t need to go to the punch card phase to be able to be a good developer for the past 40 years. I guess it will be the same with AI.Nuno Gonçalves Pedro I think so. The difficulty we have as humans is to also visualize dramatically different scenarios and landscapes, professionally. It’s difficult for us to anticipate what are the jobs of the future. Jobs have changed a lot in the last few decades, not even the last century. What people do, the migration initially from the agricultural society to then the industrial society to then the services society, and in some ways, the shift within the services industry, and now we’re seeing another shift, so we can’t really anticipate what those jobs look like. Back to your point on education, because I think that’s a very important point. If you’re right now an undergraduate student or a postgraduate student, for that matter, and you’re not figuring out your own mechanisms of learning outside of your syllabus, outside of what your professors are telling you, et cetera, you’re going to face very difficult times. If you’re not right now using all these AI tools proficiently, all these cycles of vibe coding, co-working, et cetera, with agents in the mix, you’re going to have a really tough time. If you’re not at this point in time as proficient as someone like myself or Bertrand, and given that we’re nerds, we’re relatively proficient with a lot of these tools that are out there. On top of it, some of us have our own platforms in-house. If you’re not as proficient as we are with those tools, you’re going to have a very difficult time because then people like us won’t need you. I think that’s the sad truth. It’s like at some point, if you’re not needed, you’re not needed. Then again, you may find something else that’s more interesting for you to do. Start your own company, go join a new exciting job doing whatever it is that you need to do next, et cetera. But again, I think the bar is very high. If you’re in college right now, again, undergrad, postgraduate, this is the time of transition. This is the worst time. It’s not the best time, it’s the worst time. Because education and all these institutions haven’t adapted to it yet. You need to adapt. You need to adapt. You need to adapt. If you don’t, you’re going to pay for it, not just in the loans you need to repay, but also in terms of actually having difficulty finding your career path in those first few critical years.Bertrand Schmitt You need to be especially proactive when you’re facing this type of period where businesses are adapting as fast as they can because they all know it’s going to be survival of the fittest very quickly. Universities typically are working on a very different pace, and it’s pretty guaranteed they are not going to have adapted as fast as businesses. In time of big dramatic change, it will be trouble. It will be trouble. Yes, you will have not fun. Not saying it was part of the deal when you sign up for that loan and decided to go for university. But that’s life. There has been issues before. It’s not the first time. You have to do something about it. You talk about your perspective about, “Hey, why do we need you if you are not already fluent and very efficient with these tools and stuff?” The truth, in some ways, it’s even worse than that. Each time we spend with someone who is not efficient with all of this is less time we spend with the tools that are already providing magic for us.Nuno Gonçalves Pedro Exactly.Bertrand Schmitt It’s a very big choice of, “Hey, do I spend more time training this person?” Do I just… there is an opportunity cost. Or, do I spend more time staying at light speed? Why do I slow down to do something else in the hope that maybe I will get to return versus the light speed I’m already on? It’s a lot of tension. Again, it’s certainly new. But if we want to look back, I think you talk about the switch from agriculture and society, industrial society, and now the service industry. The reality is that, yes, we have made dramatic changes in the past before. 140 years ago, we were 90% agricultural society in Europe, in the US, 90% of us. Today, it’s what? 2%. So my point is that that’s a normal evolution. There is no progress without change. Sometimes the rate of change is soft, and sometimes you have a step function. Now it’s a step function, and it’s also a pretty fast step function. Before, it could take decades to get new stuff being put in place, to have electricity come up, this or that. Now we see that the rate of investment in AI is insane, way beyond anything we have seen before. Two, in a way, a lot of the architecture behind the scene was already there to support an even faster transition. What’s new might be the pace of the transition, how unnatural it might look. But at the same time, if you put yourself in the shoes of someone who lived 150 years ago, I mean, this was also a dramatic change for them. From horses to cars to planes to rockets, pretty big change, maybe even bigger change.Nuno Gonçalves Pedro Maybe the silver lining, just to bookend this section, is one, there will be new roles. There are a lot of things we can’t anticipate. There will be new roles, there will be new jobs being created, and new things that we can’t really quite grasp yet. The second part is that the rules are changing, and they’re changing, I would say, in general, for the better. If you are a decision-maker or an organization, and you still have your job, you’re probably making more important decisions with more data, with more tooling around you, with less red tape, hopefully over time. I know that will not hold true for all the big corporations out there that are listening to us, but it is starting to happen. Things are making an impact on how decision-making is made. There’s less and less red tape along the way in certain organizations. There are more and more fact-based discussions happening as we move along. The silver lining is better jobs, more jobs, different jobs in the future, hopefully as well. Secondly, the second part of the silver line is that the jobs that exist today, hopefully, will be more interesting, certainly on the knowledge space and on this judgment space that we’re now introducing as part of this episode. The AI-Native Company: Org, Hiring, Culture Switching gears, maybe to how does that shift? How does the company of the future look like? How does an AI native company look like? I feel there are a lot of discussions on, “Oh, you only need one person to run everything.” Let’s not go to that level. We’ve had a couple of episodes where we focused on AI as your co-founder and a couple of other elements that you guys can go back to. Let’s focus on a more evolutionary view of what’s happening to organizations, and maybe start with the org structure. In general, we should see more flat organizations where mid-level managers have to justify their pay in some ways because middle management are routers. They are normally routing tasks. It’s sometimes aggregating it, synthesizing it, and pulling it back up. Guess what? AI and agents in general are very good at that. The synthesis piece, et cetera, is not as well needed. One could say there are several elements of middle management that are valuable, like the coaching of people, the creation of apprentices, and the accountability that comes with some of middle management. But lo and behold, most of middle management is seen as a little bit of a thin line that doesn’t need to necessarily exist. I feel we’re moving into a world of smaller teams, more senior teams, where there’s more judgment at the top, where you’ll have people that both do a mix of what we used to call management in its new form, but also a lot of individual contribution. If you’re not used to that, if you’re not used anymore to be an individual in the future, again, and if you’re a very senior in an organization, maybe this is the right time to either reinvent yourself, find some other job that doesn’t require as much of that, which we’ll have plenty of those jobs for the next few decades, or maybe retire. I’ve actually, shockingly enough, seen people who have said, “You know what? This thing is changing too fast, too dramatically. My industry is changing quite aggressively right now. I’m about to retire in a couple of years. I’m just going to retire now.” I’ve literally met two people who have done that. Again, there’s nothing wrong about it. I think we’re, again, going through a step function and a huge shift, but figuring out where you fit in this new model of organizations, more senior at the top, smaller teams, more of a mix of individual contribution with management than ever was done before.Bertrand Schmitt I agree with you. In some ways, I’m not surprised that some people might say, “You know what? It’s now time to retire.” I feel a bit sad, maybe because it means you don’t like to keep reinventing yourself and changing your habits and thinking about new stuff. You were a creature of habits, I would say, if that’s your conclusion. But everyone is entitled to their own opinion, obviously, and a way of life. I guess that’s what happened, again, at regular times in the past in terms of big change. What I can see is that the rise of, you can call it the full-stack individual, someone who will have multiple roles inside the team. Before, you had to really separate the role. Especially in the US, there is such a clear separation between every role you can have in a company. Let’s take a tech company. You will have people doing design, people doing different types of designs, people doing front-end development, back-end development, and operations. You see step-by-step hyper-specialization. I have seen that, and it’s true that the level of complexity you had to deal with at some point requires some level of hyper-specialization because it will take you 6, 12 months in order to be really, really strong on a specific topic, a specific language. God forbid, trying to go deep into something that you had no real experience into. But I feel with AI, it’s a big change, actually. It’s the opportunity to go beyond that. It’s the opportunity to do more, to touch more. You can combine designing and shipping code, product managing and shipping code, being an analyst and deploying. Of course, we have to think how it works because putting a marketer shipping code to production, maybe that will get you into trouble. But I think that there must be some change. We see it changing dramatically, how fast we can get into something, something different from what we are used to. I think it would be crazy not to take that opportunity to dramatically change the scope of many positions and put an end to that hyper-specialization. I think for me, in some ways, hyper-specialization was bad. There is only so much you want to be a specialist in because a lot of things, a lot of opportunities are actually coming from the mixing of many different ideas, many different perspectives, and you lose if you go to hyper-specialization.Nuno Gonçalves Pedro I don’t think the age that is coming is the age of the generalist. I think it’s going to be the age of the multispecialist. We’re going to go into an age of multispecialization, which is a little bit, we’ve mentioned it as well in the past, what Amazon defines as an athlete or T-shaped or pie-shaped people, people that have on top an amazing ability to do general management, strategy, managing teams, et cetera, then have spikes. Spikes into business development, corporate development, product management, whatever it is. With AI and with agents, the development of those spikes, as we’ve been discussing in this episode, will actually be easier. It’s almost like a given. If you want to go deeper and deeper into a certain area, you can go much faster. I think that level of multispecialization is going to be really cool to observe. I’m not sure we’ve had an age of multispecialization over the years. Maybe people would point out, well, the Da Vinci example, people that are great across very different areas. Maybe that’s an example of multispecialization. But honestly, from my perspective, this is going to be an exciting time because of that, because you’ll have people who, instead of being just focused on this area of sales, and I only do that, they can actually and should actually do a lot of other things. So the work, as we were talking before, can be more interesting. More demanding as well, because the judgments you need to make are more complex. The context you need to actually gain needs to be gained much faster. At a level of magnitude, you haven’t been able to do it before. Talk about information overload. But actually, ultimately, the roles can be a lot more interesting, a lot more exciting, because I can jump around. If I’m an investor, in this case, we have two investors on this conversation. But if I’m an investor, one of the things that we start looking at is actually not just looking at a startup as, is this startup doing something in AI or not? Is it AI-enabled or not? Is it an AI platform or not? But actually, more fundamentally, is this an AI native startup? Meaning, organizationally, culturally, is this the company that’s already in the AI age? How is the team working? How are they defining things? It’s not just that they only have two or three people. It’s like, what are those two or three people doing? How are they doing it? What cadence are they doing it on? What tools are they using? How are they making decisions? I feel we’re still actually relatively early on that track. It’s very interesting because we’ve had all these companies raising mega rounds. First round out, we invested in one of them, but there have been many frontier labs out there raising a ton of money. But a lot of them don’t have a fundamentally different way of doing business. Of organizing themselves, of how they do the day-to-day. Although they’re working on cutting-edge stuff, with very notable exceptions, they’re actually not using it themselves. They’re not actually shifting how they do stuff themselves.Bertrand Schmitt For me, that’s very interesting because in the past, I used to be quite conservative on how you manage and run a company in the sense that if you’re already in tech, if you are already on the cutting edge of what technology can deliver, and this and that, don’t waste time trying to invent a new org structure. Just focus on delivering something great, amazing, and be great at technologies. That’s already your huge differentiator. At the time, there was no real reason to innovate on the team organization. I have seen so many teams that tried to innovate, and it was just catastrophic because there was not much to innovate on, because we had decades of optimization that we could leverage. There was no reason to invent. But here it’s very different. There is a dramatic shift in how you can organize differently a company. I don’t think there are any blueprints yet on what’s the best way to do it because it’s too new. But at the same time, I would feel very bad to invest or support a company that first is not focused on AI or AI-enabled, but at the same time is not trying to innovate on the team itself. Because if you don’t do that, you’re going to get killed by someone who is going to innovate better than you on not just the product, but on the org as well.Nuno Gonçalves Pedro Indeed. The shifts are pretty substantial. If you look, for example, just at hiring, what do you hire for? Certainly, there’s this element of the multispecialized orchestrator, which normally will be someone with quite a lot of wisdom and expertise. It doesn’t necessarily mean someone who’s old, but someone who has the ability to work with all the AI tooling and platforms out there and be an orchestrator of agents. Why do they make judgments, make decisions, move stuff forward really, really, really quickly? Again, those jobs are going to be the best jobs. The second part, I think that is very interesting, around hiring, is you’re going to skew towards the elements that are potentially either very aligned with the use of AI tooling and platform, AI expertise, or being AI native, or someone who’s used to using AI. That’s one side of the fence. On the other side, you’re going to actually be optimizing to hire people that have the characteristics that will be difficult for AI to replace immediately, like taste and the notion of fundamental accountability and notion of implications, the notion of how you affect change in organizations, how you affect change in individuals, the elements of coaching, and beyond coaching. You’ll be optimizing for those kinds of hires as well. Then, last but not least, for me, I feel that there is a momentum already happening. I think it will happen even more, which is the tendency to under-hire rather than over-hire. The moment of the good old days of blitz scaling, “Oh, let me go and hire 300 people to scale my go-to-market and just land grab market.” Now, that’s not how it’s going to work. People are going to try and first get the efficiencies in-house with top talent and see if there’s, at the end, the need to hire more people or not, rather than the other way around. I think the issue here is a little bit of what we alluded to before in this episode. There is a tax on individuals. If you hire more people, you’ll have to manage people, you’ll have to work with them, et cetera. If I don’t need to, I might as well work with the agents that the tools and platforms that I use give me access to. Because that’s a world that’s much more efficient, right?Bertrand Schmitt I’m in total agreement with you on this. It’s definitely raising way more questions than before because, again, on one side, you have the product, the technology used to build products that are completely different. At the same time, all of this is also enabling new ways to design organizations and to scale differently, especially in a world where, as we have seen in 3, 6, and 12 months, stuff that you thought were impossible are suddenly becoming possible. So you’re, “Hey, I’m going to scale and burn a shitload of money for 6 months before I know if there is any return.” Versus, “You know what? Maybe I just wait 6 months. The AI has improved enough so that we don’t need this new team. We don’t need these people to do stuff.” Because actually, if you just wait 6 months, we will have stuff coming for free from either new AI models or new AI tools or this or that. If you remember, we used to say that in mobile, things were going three times as fast as on the web in terms of pace of innovation and speed of development and stuff. I mean, with AI, it’s 5X mobile.Nuno Gonçalves Pedro Maybe even more. Yes, well.Bertrand Schmitt Maybe even more, maybe 10X. Every assumption around blitz scaling or scaling in general was based on past assumptions. It’s not based on how is the industry evolving today. Might make more sense for you to really grow your agents and spend more money on more tokens. I remember, of course, Jensen is selling his business interest, but he was saying, “Hey, for each one of my 450K engineers, he better spend 250K in tokens a year.” I’m not saying it’s the right way to say it, but I think there is some truth in it, and that would be something to think about. Have we maxed out the token usage per employee? I’m not talking in a stupid way because token maxing and wasting money has no value and is as stupid as it gets. But if you are truly getting a return on these tokens, can you use more? Can you generate more? Can you create more loops so that one engineer manages not just 10 agents, but 50 agents, but 200 agents? I think that’s the big question. We’re trying to add more people. More people means more management, more issues, more this, more that. That would be a fair question. Another piece of the puzzle is how do you build in a way your… I don’t know if it’s a digital twin, but more like the digital version of your companies represented by agents. How do you make sure that everything you do as a business is truly captured, is truly leveraged so that your agents are getting better and better? Not just because the model gets better, but because you are putting more data into it, because it has more opportunity to learn, and as a result, gets better at your specific business.Nuno Gonçalves Pedro The next big thing is culture. How does culture change? I think the biggest shift that I see is, why would you do meetings all the time?Bertrand Schmitt Yes.Nuno Gonçalves Pedro At least at Chamaeleon, we have a very small team, just by the way. We have a very small team at Chamaeleon. We’ve reduced by way more than 50% the time we spend on meetings between each other across the board, one-on-ones, partner meetings, et cetera. I think we’re really pushing to be more and more asynchronous. There’s stuff you can process via message. I was just asking one of my colleagues, “Can you just send me that prompt for that so I can just do that on CoWork?” Or “Can I just go on Mantis and do this? Can you tell me the cycle?” Or vice versa. Basically, it’s a little bit like you’re just going to do it. I don’t need to meet. I don’t need to meet all the time. There are some things where we still need to meet and interact, and we need to brainstorm at times, and we need to go to a different level of abstraction on the top end. Then on the lower end, there might be things that are a little bit more specific and governance-related and operational-related that we need to agree on that are more sticky. But otherwise, the culture is going to be biased towards build. “Go and do it,” rather than, “Let’s do a meeting.”Bertrand Schmitt Yes.Nuno Gonçalves Pedro Async is the thing. I’m more and more like we have a couple of interns this summer. “Can we async this?” They’re like, “What does that mean?” “Can we make this interaction asynchronous?” Because synchronous interactions for me are very expensive. Can you send me something that I can process, and then I can send it back to you? We don’t waste time on you giving me context and whatever. Then I’m not ready quite yet because I need to process it. Maybe I’m in between two meetings that I’m actually thinking about other things in my mind.” Again, I feel that shifts how stuff is done. One, build rather than meeting. Two, asynchronous versus synchronous. In some way, millennials had it right when they shifted a lot to messaging and stuff like that. Let’s do more asynchronous rather than synchronous, those two elements from just an operating model of the company are significant. Maybe this is a good time for me just to put one parenthesis because there’s this thing that’s bugging me as we’re talking here. Everyone who is listening to us at this point in time might be saying, “Cool, but I work for this large organization. We’re just now…” Everything we’re saying here is contextualized by time. We’re giving you extreme situations. We’re looking into the future. Some companies that we’re talking about might be doing this already as we speak. Some of them might be in the process of doing this and might in the next couple of months be doing it like we are describing it here. Some of them might take years to get there. Then again, some of the companies that might take years might actually be destroyed in between or meanwhile, and be disrupted. Some of them might not because they’re in very legacy businesses, and it’s fine, and it’s okay. Again, don’t take everything that Bertrand and I are saying today as this is gospel, and it’s going to happen tomorrow, and why the hell are we not doing it? We think that aspirationally, this is where you should be moving to as an organization, whatever size you’re at. Speed will matter, as we discussed before, but not everyone, obviously, is going to move as fast as we’re describing it here.Bertrand Schmitt Yes. Me, for instance, take inspiration often with what some of the AI labs, frontier AI labs, are doing, the way they are working, especially in OpenAI and Anthropic. They are clearly at the top of the spear in terms of what is it that you can do because they have access to models we don’t have access to, because they have unlimited tokens they can use for tasks. They hire people who are, of course, 100% on AI. They are the best example of what is achievable if you have the top minds, if you have the latest models, if you have unlimited tokens. From there, you can take that for our needs and for our situation, and others in industries that are not as advanced. Definitely, you have some time. But as you say, things are moving fast, things are changing. Wall Street is going to expect better returns because when we discuss all of this, the conclusion is that you should be able to do more with less. That’s as real as it gets at some point. By the way, that’s what you see. You see better performance, a better business performance right now. So even if you might not get disrupted, you’d better start there. For some, it might take more time, and they might still be fine.Nuno Gonçalves Pedro Maybe to bookend this section, clearly what we’re saying is organizations are going to change. Their MOs are going to change, the structures are going to change. There are elements of what we discussed before in terms of judgment that are fundamental to this. The ability that in some ways, one would say a lot of the technique of getting solutions out there, even in brainstorming or problem-solving, is going to get democratized. The algorithms are able to do that. On the other hand, having points of view and having wisdom is not necessarily democratized, necessarily by the machines. It can be facilitated, it can be more productive in achieving that level of wisdom, but wisdom still will matter at the end of the day. We’re not saying that’s out of the question. Actually, that’s going to be the asset. People who have fundamental wisdom that can come to the table and frame things. We see this even today in prompt engineering, on just creating prompts. The better your prompt is, the better the outcome is going to be, the result that you get from the algorithms. That’s not going to change, in my opinion, anytime soon. That UI interaction piece is not going to change anytime soon. Again, if you’re an organization thinking through organizational structure, culture, if you’re thinking through hiring, these are some of the elements that we think will give you an opportunity, but I would actually go one step further. On the positive side, I would say, they give you arbitrage. If you’re able to move faster than your competitors and really adapt your org faster, you’ll reap the benefits faster as well. That’s what many still say and relate to as the word innovation. That’s how innovation gets accelerated. I think there’s a huge opportunity right now for arbitrage. If you move fast, experiment, experiment on new org structures, experiment with talent, you’ll know that some of them will work well, some of them will fail miserably, so you can’t experiment on literally everything. On the other side, I think the doomsday scenario is if you don’t, if you’re on the other side and your competitor is outpacing you on trying these different organizational models, structure, hiring models, and operating models, they’ll potentially just disrupt you. They’ll do stuff that you thought you had the moat on, and lo and behold, you don’t anymore. Sometimes it comes just from org, just from injection of people with a different MRO, different operating model.Bertrand Schmitt The Human Element: Are We Underestimating It? Maybe we can move to our next section about the human elements. Are we underestimating it or are we overestimating it? The three things that are a big part of the human elements, emotion, creativity, and synthesis. Is it just soft skills, replaceable part? On the contrary, is it the durable part now that we have automated intelligence?Nuno Gonçalves Pedro I’ll start with emotion first because I think it’s probably the easiest of all the ones you’ve mentioned. Emotion is key. Many of you listening to us will know this. The way you deliver a certain message, the emotion that you have when you deliver it, just in and of itself, this could be a sentence, it’s something verbal, et cetera. Makes a difference between the person or the people on the other side actually adopting it or actually just resisting it. Emotion is critical. It’s what runs the world. Everyone talks about a bunch of things, but emotion is a currency that is still naturally human. It will be, I feel, difficult for these AI tools and platforms to recreate it fully until there’s some literally very high-definition manifestation of them as avatars or some physical manifestation of them as robots and all that stuff. It will take a while for that emotion to be manifested. Emotion, I think, is still something that we as humans have as a moat, and it’s critical. As you mentioned before, I was a strategy management consultant at McKinsey, and getting people to action is actually 80% about the delivery, communication, the emotion that you surround the project itself, more than sometimes the truth. It’s great to have the truth and to have something that is similar to the truth in terms of analysis, but in some ways, that’s not what really moves change. Change is moved by, I would argue, a significant amount of emotion and alignment on emotions.Bertrand Schmitt You could argue that’s something that most politicians have perfectly understood. If you look at most campaigns these days, everything on emotions, maybe the tagline might be one word. It’s interesting when you see from that perspective that actually it’s very little on facts, very little on all of this, but more about emotion. You could argue it’s the same for businesses in the future? That’s a fair question. I think creativity is another one that’s quite important. At the same time, it’s not so easy because I must say I’m quite amazed when I’m looking for creativity from AI, either to generate the image, to generate video, to generate audio, or to generate text. AI can be pretty creative. I still think you need to control its creativity; you need to understand what’s good, what’s bad, what’s quality, but at the same time, I can see even in creative tasks, AI can be a very strong partner. I’m talking about any creative task, like invent a name for a product, let’s brainstorm the mission for the company. AI can actually be doing a pretty impressive job. That’s the type of job where you will hire experts, where you will use some of the best people in your team to help you for days. We say, “You can do quite a lot.” It’s an interesting one because I think there is some unique human creativity, and at the same time, AI can be pretty strong at creative task as well.Nuno Gonçalves Pedro I agree. In particular, if it represents benchmarking, if it represents repetition, if it represents seeing the world and then coming up with something that presents itself as creative, to be honest, it can actually outpace humans. If it’s like genuine light bulb moments of creativity, angles that haven’t been tried before, certainly not in the same way, I think humans still have the advantage. To your point, I agree. This is not a humans-win situation. On the previous one, on emotion, still, part of it is because, also on emotion, there are exchanges. You and I might be looking at each other, and from the facial expressions and the reactions, where you judge that for AI to get there, it’s going to take a long time. There’s going to be a lot of very complex algorithmic stuff put into that for AI to be able to create synthetic emotional behaviors, but creativity, I agree with you. There are a lot more nuances to it today, where AI does have significant advantages at the end of the day. Synthesis depends. Synthesis, I feel, if we’re talking about holding a bunch of messy assumptions, contextualized inputs with different layers of data adjacent to them and then trying to create and form one coherent, fully accountable point of view that you stake something on, like a decision, a company, a business unit, whatever, I think humans have the advantage. Part of it is the complexity of what we have today with generative, pre-trained transformers, today with GPTs, where the hallucination comes through, where it’s really more statistical analysis. Over time, maybe synthesis will be a forte for AI. Right now, I think we still have that ability to really be the ultimate decision-makers and judge-makers and have that wisdom put at the table to make those decisions. Honestly, models are very good on balancing both sides, so ended up, as we say in Portuguese, neither fish nor meat. It’s to balance both sides’ answers. That’s not helpful in most cases. When you’re in a difficult position where, for example, the future of a company, company is almost dying, what do you do? I’m not sure your AI algorithms that are going to give you a great solution. Because it will give you a median or average solution, which likely will lead you to a median or average outcome, which in this case would be failure. Again, on synthesis, there are some areas of advantage for human beings. If you are looking for clearly synthesized perspectives on certain elements that are maybe less edge-focused, they’re more than the normal part of the normal distribution, then probably AI agents are brilliant at that. All the tools we have today are pretty good at that, and I think they’ll just get better over time. That’s how I see synthesis.Bertrand Schmitt I think a lot of improvements will come with a better fine-tuning of agents to what’s special about your company. Because if you just take a general agent, there is only so much. It can understand your industry, your company, and your way of working. I think that part of making sure your agents are finely trained, finely tuned on your own business, so that they can give you a really well-calibrated feedback, will have a lot of importance.Nuno Gonçalves Pedro I think that’s absolutely spot on. Maybe to end it, what is definitely different about humanity? Definitely, emotion, as we discussed, some pieces of synthesis. Creativity, maybe the light bulb creativity, not the more repeatable creativity, the one that you can put and encapsulate into processes in some ways. There are elements of us being physical, which robots can’t still recreate. That’s definitely an advantage. The embodied, we’re embodied. That’s obviously a huge advantage. With that also comes advantages because we have to interpret each other, and we have to see the complexities in physicality that land to it. Is human and the human element categorical difference? If we’re having a more philosophical discussion around this, I think it is. I think it will be for at least the foreseeable future and maybe decades to come, even in whatever scenarios we’ll discuss, which is our next section, scenarios.Bertrand Schmitt I would say projecting beyond 10 years is always pretty hard on this because, again, some of the improvements we are talking about we can imagine based on how it has evolved, but at the same time, there will be disruptions in AI. Stuff that we take for granted in terms of weakness, especially, might not be there in a few years from now. Either because it has been solved through brute force or because the field will have made significant change and improvements and discoveries, making some of our points moot. If we talk about embodiment, obviously, robots are coming. How fast, how cheap? That will be a big question. Right now, they’re not very smart. They’re usually very specialized. The more we move to a more general form factor, humanoid form factor, the more I think it will change. Also, another piece of the puzzle is that we have the assumption of agents having trouble to convince humans and stuff. At some point, we keep assuming that humans in the loop. If we’re talking about agents convincing another agent, not having embodiment might be even more efficient. That will be another perspective. Going forward, we will have not just agents we control who are doing a job and scanning the job, but agents truly interacting with other agents. You have agents controlled by one person, one team in your company, working either together or maybe not confrontationally, but trying to think and having different perspectives with another agent, controlled by other teams. I don’t think we have seen much of that now. We have seen mostly agents that are controlled by one team doing one job in one direction. Not multiple teams agents working together, or against or in parallel with another team agent. I think we will see some interesting things coming out of that.Nuno Gonçalves Pedro Scenarios Switching to scenarios, we love our two-by-twos. We haven’t done one in a while. This time it’s a two by two. We have four scenarios. I think on one axis, we would have potentially the capabilities of AI. One side would be more incremental. The other side would be the extreme full AGI. I’ll define it in a bit so that we can at least have a little bit of a definitional view on what the AGI is. Then the other axis would be how gains are distributed, concentrated versus broad. Obviously, if they’re very concentrated, it’s more unequal. It only goes to a few companies, a few people, a few individuals. If it’s broad, it’s much more dispersed through society, et cetera. AGI, just to try to define it, the formal definition of it is that it’s a hypothetical AI that matches or exceeds human capabilities across virtually all cognitive and practical tasks. In some ways, AGI can learn, reason, and adapt to novel situations across any domain. Then there are several mutations on this, but there’s one notion, or rather, there are three notions that normally are across a lot of these definitions. One is generalization, ability to seamlessly transfer knowledge from one domain to another without needing retraining, which is a very impressive skill that we humans still seemingly have. Autonomy in agency, the capacity to operate independently, set goals, plan and execute complex tasks. I think AI is their issue with agents to a lot of that extent. Then, last but not least, human parity, performing economically valuable work at or above the level of a typical human knowledge worker. If you listen to one of our last episodes, you’ll realize that Bertrand and I have slightly different views on AGI, and if it’s already here or not. I think, definitionally, maybe we have slightly different views on what the definition actually is. For me, maybe AGI is a little bit more what some would call superintelligence and generalized superintelligence. Strict to census, Bertrand is more connecting to AGI as in its prime definition. It behaves as well or better than a human thing. Maybe that’s what’s leading us to differences on whether AGI has arrived or not.Bertrand Schmitt Personally, I will have a different scale where I will put AGI, as you just said, in some ways, relatively similar in performance to your average human being. On top of it, it’s able to touch different domains that most humans are not able to do. Usually, there is some level of specializations where in AI, it can be more generic. I will put ASI, Artificial Superintelligence, as clearly the step beyond. Something that, on any dimension you pick, it’s able to beat a human expert. From my perspective, I think we already discussed that, but we are at AGI already. We have AI that can do way better, not just way better, but at least as well as humans on many topics, sometimes better. Yes, there are some topics that are not for AI yet. Embodiment, for instance, to flock with your humanoid robot in 2026. For me, we are partially there or fully there in AGI. If we take the stricter definition, ASI, we are definitely not there, but my guess is that it’s moving quite fast. We might be there in a few years from now. I don’t think we are talking about multi-decades. It’s 5 years, maybe 10. Of course, there are questions because people will say, for instance, “Hey, how do you become truly super-intelligent when all your training is based on human data?” That’s not an easy one because how do you train on that? To be way better, not just a bit better, but way better. Maybe I’m going on a tangent, but some are looking at AI learning from AI, AI being taught from AI, AI fighting with AI, AI challenging AI. The same way we saw this AlphaGo moment where AI was not trained anymore, like in chess with human moves, but has been trained to play against itself. That’s when it reached superintelligence in Go. It reached superintelligence by playing against itself and basically letting go of that human baggage, if you want, and going to the next level. What I found interesting in that, actually, first, that’s what happened, but two, there was some analysis that the average level of Go players and the top players went up after AlphaGo because AlphaGo, in a way, opened doors that humans didn’t believe were open in front of them, or they didn’t see them. They didn’t see these doors, so they didn’t bother to open them. AI opened new doors, but interestingly enough, humans improved after that, thanks to AI. You see what I mean? It was an interesting, okay, that self-learning from AI was the way to go beyond the current level of human knowledge and human expertise, but at the same time, humans were able to follow up. It was not like suddenly humans are totally useless crap. They improved. Did they still beat AI? Maybe not, but it was definitely also helpful.Nuno Gonçalves Pedro Back to our scenarios. We’re going to take the definitional extreme just for argument’s sake for scenarios. We’re going to talk about maybe what you were saying, ASI rather than full AGI, but like ASI. Again, artificial superintelligence as the extreme on the one hand. Let me talk about maybe the first scenario that would come to mind. Maybe we can call it the plateau scenario. All of this was great, but it was all smoke and mirrors. They were great at some cognition stuff. They’re a great tool. At some point, they’re going to hit a wall. Hallucinations are never going to be a thing of the past. We can’t fully trust them on really hardcore stuff. We’ll gain productivity enhancements. We’ll keep gaining those productivity enhancements, but at some point in time, we really won’t reach ASI. We really will be stuck with what we have. It’s a little bit like we get the next big thing, the next big spreadsheet, the next big internet, but it’s not going to change the whole world beyond just productivity, enhancements, and amazing tools that we have available to us that makes us much better. In that scenario, the winners will continue being fast adopters, probably small and medium businesses, because there won’t be a push for maximum speed either, so they’ll catch up at some point. Then AI native companies will be better companies than other companies, but not necessarily overall disruptors across the board. It’s not necessarily a new species of companies. It’s just companies that are a little bit better at doing stuff, which we also saw during the internet phenomenon and that first big push forward and then bubble, where we had some companies that were fundamentally different on how they operated. It took us another couple of decades for companies to be more and more digitally native along the way. Basically interesting, but it’s boring. It’s like, cool, we got tools, we got promised the world. What are the implications? All these companies that are worth trillions and trillions of dollars are not worth trillions and trillions of dollars. Because at some point we’ll face competition, commoditization. It will just be tools and platforms. They will not unlock that next stage. Therefore, this will have been a bubble, and likely it would be a hard landing to that bubble. That’s the implication.Bertrand Schmitt I would just say that, yes, I agree with you, but I would just say overall, even if it stopped today in terms of quality improvement, speed or stuff, or it barely improves, I still think we will have 10 years of madness just to leverage everything that we have today.Nuno Gonçalves Pedro Understood, Bertrand. This is a scenario. I understand, but maybe we’re going to hit a wall, and we’re going to hit that wall next year, or we’re going to hit that wall in 2 years or whatever.Bertrand Schmitt Possibly. I’m just saying we still have 10 years of goodness from that big push in AI we experienced the past few years.Nuno Gonçalves Pedro Absolutely. Agreed, but it’s boring.Bertrand Schmitt It’s boring. It’s a plateau.Nuno Gonçalves Pedro It’s a plateau. The second one is more of something that we have AI, but humans in the loop are going to be critical along the way. The judgment work that we described earlier in the episode is going to be critical to everything that happens. It’s, I would call it the augmentation scenario. The AI will be a great augmentation tool for humans, but humans will never really quite stop being in the loop. Some of the gains that AI has are broadly distributed in society and in the startup, big corporation and small medium business world. Everyone will have access to them. We humans, are still very important. We have all these augmentation things, and AI is mostly benign. There will be a couple of issues, but honestly, at the end of the day, we’re just better. We’re better, faster, more data-driven, more factually current. We’re doing stuff faster, but humans

Bestie!! If you live for the story times, the dating fails, the unbelievable love stories, and the kind of encouragement that leaves you feeling hopeful, this episode is for you! First, I'm bringing you the update you've all been waiting for! Remember our girly who was DMing me in real time after the guy she met on a dating app suddenly ghosted her, only for her to discover he had flown to Korea, where his ex-girlfriend lives? Well… the story didn't end there. She sent us the rest of what happened, and trust me, it's TEA…Then, I'm sharing one of the most unbelievable, movie-worthy love stories I've ever heard. It's the kind of story that MAKES you believe in fairytales!! You're going to FLIPPPPP.And finally, we're having one of my favorite conversations yet about finding JOY in the middle of life's hardest seasons. If you've been struggling to let go of a relationship, a situation, or a version of your life that isn't serving you anymore, I hope this episode reminds you that sometimes the hardest goodbyes are exactly what make room for the life, and the love, you've been praying for.Whether you're healing from heartbreak, waiting for your person, or just need a little reminder that your story isn't over yet, I hope this episode leaves you feeling encouraged.  Pick up bestie I'm calling!!!

BEEF Let's start with some really good news. For the first time since 2018 the US cattle herd increased by 200K head to 94.2 million head, this however is not the start of beef herd building we've been looking for. The increases are in dairy cows, the beef herd actually declined 200K head to 28.5 million head. I do see some signs of heifer retention with ranchers reserving additional head for breeding. I'm still taking this as a good sign. Additional good news: Our southern border will open to Mexican livestock with one port opening August 24 in Arizona. This entry will probably only be about 3,000 head per week, but we will take the progress. We've gone a week with no new New World screw worm cases, so let's keep the momentum going. Onto the current beef market and we continue to move lower finishing July, and I'd expect the early part of August will continue the decline.  There is an exception as ribeyes and tenderloins seem to have done their summer declines; while the rest of the market softens, they have some demand behind them to keep from further declines. Declines from last week continue though they are getting smaller, and I do think we'll see a bottom to this current market in the next couple weeks. Thin meats, rounds and chucks all moving lower, even grinds, which I almost thought invincible to market declines, are moving lower. I'd still stay ahead of your needs but as this market declines there will be opportunities.  POULTRY Chicken market is down for next week. Boneless skinless randoms, tenders and even wings are all moving lower. This strong production we've seen all year seems to finally be catching up the producers lowering prices to keep things moving. I thought we'd see a minor increase but we're going the other way. Makes chicken a great value this summer. On the avian flu beat – two weeks, no new cases. We'll take that all day long.  GRAINS Last week had all the grain markets moving higher, even corn. Well, that was last week. This week, except for wheat being affected by international unrest and domestic crop stress, corn and soy are moving back down. This week's corn closed at $4.69 down from last week $4.84. Soy closed $11.71 down from $12.26 last week. Soy oil should move lower over the next couple weeks.  PORK Pork bellies are up again this week, closing today at $159 over last week's close of $156. While I do think we have a couple more weeks to go, I think we've got a week or two more before declining again heading into fall. Right now, it's all moving higher. Bellies are about the only thing pushing higher and pork, butts, ribs and loins, steady to down slightly. DAIRY The recent run up on the CME for the block and the barrel seems to have run out of steam. Through Thursday's close block is down 8, barrel is down 5 and butter continues lower down 11. Plenty of raw material available and we're seeing a slowdown heading into August. Savalfoods.com | Find us on Social Media: Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, LinkedIn

Rosemary Barnes, CEO and founder of Pardalote Consulting, joins to discuss their new grant-funded study of blade erosion and heat fatigue in Australia. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on YouTube, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! Welcome to Uptime Spotlight, shining light on wind energy’s brightest innovators. This is the progress powering tomorrow Allen Hall 2025: Well, Rosemary, welcome back to the show.  Rosemary Barnes: Thanks, Allen. Great to be here. For, it’s been a while since we did one of these one-on-one episodes, like a, yeah, a proper, proper guest.  Allen Hall 2025: Well, this is kind of a celebratory episode because your company, Pardalote Consulting, has been awarded, uh, some funding from the Australian Capital Territory’s government for the Energy Innovation Fund. Rosemary Barnes: It’s a really good program that the ACT government has to try and get energy innovation In the state. It’s not a state actually, it’s technically a territory. Little more than just Canberra, the city. Uh, but there are actually quite a few, like, really interesting energy-related companies here, partly ’cause of the, the fund I think helps, but also just tracing back like, [00:01:00] uh, y- you know, in the 20-teens, Australia had a really conservative government that hated renewable energy, and the ACT government had a commitment at that time to 100%, um, 100% renewable electricity for the, the government. And that was one of the only programs that was resulting in a lot of, um, you know, clean energy projects being built, and one of the conditions that they put on that, uh, for people that would win PPAs with the ACT was that you had to have your headquarters in Canberra. So we’ve actually got quite a few, quite a few really cool, innovative companies out of here. Um, like Neoen’s headquarters here. Windlab, uh, yeah, was, was founded here and still has a lot of people here. Pardalote obviously, and you know, a few other companies as well. So despite it being a small city of like, I don’t know, maybe it’s up to 400,000 or something people by now, um, yeah, there is actually quite a lot going on here for energy. Allen Hall 2025: And the Energy Innovation Fund is funded by the wind and solar operators in the area, and your particular [00:02:00] effort has really global consequences. You’re focusing on two areas involving how wind turbines survive Australia, but more, uh, of relevance is to just really tough conditions which exist not just in Australia but around the world. What two areas are you going to focus on?  Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. So the two focus areas are leading edge erosion and high temperature fatigue, which we can probably get into the definitions of those in a minute. But basically my, um– what led me to wanna have a project like this was that when I moved back to Australia in 2021, I– and I started working in O&M, uh, I noticed that the wind turbines that I would look at, the blades that I would look at here behaved really differently to the ones that I worked with overseas. You know, es- especially with leading edge erosion, like often I would be doing a condition assessment of a, you know, a new wind farm. Um, might only have been operating for, you know, two years. That’s a pretty common time for people to get in and do a condition assessment [00:03:00] because their warranty period is about to end and they wanna, you know, make sure that everything is okay. Um, and I would just notice that often, like 90, 100% of blades would already have bad erosion after just a couple of years, which is super-duper fast. And then there are some tools available to check, um, like what kind of erosion are you likely to experience on your site. Like is it a higher severity erosion site or a, a low severity one? Um, and you basically, you know, the status quo globally is to just look at the annual rainfall, um, and the tip speed. And if you’ve got, you know, high for both of those, that’s a bad erosion site. And if you’ve got low for both of those, it’s a, a low erosion site. But when I plotted out the wind farms that I knew had really bad erosion problems onto, you know, a chart with those two axes, I just saw a random distribution of dots. You know? Like, this was not– uh, this had no predictive value for Australian wind farms. And so that led me to believe that, okay, um, you know, things are a bit [00:04:00] different here. Makes sense, you know, most of the knowledge that we have about how wind turbines operate, it’s been developed and validated mostly in Northern Europe. You know? Like it’s, it’s Denmark and the surrounding countries that had, like, the bulk of the early wind energy. First few decades of knowledge were, you know, were mostly there. Of course, there were some other, um, places that had wind turbines, but, you know, most of the The OEMs have been operating for decades, came from Denmark. And I know when I lived in Denmark, the rain there is very different to the rain in Australia. So in Denmark, it’s basically always raining, right? Like, it’s just… Like, even if it’s not raining, you’re still gonna get wet when you go outside ’cause it’s just, like, the air has this just amazing ability to just hold onto moisture. Um, but it’s very, very gentle. But, you know, over an entire year of most days having gentle rain, that adds up to a lot. Whereas in Australia, and especially if you go, like, north to Queensland, it rarely rains. It’s mostly just dry, and when it [00:05:00] does rain, it’s like a tap turns on, and I, I swear you will get bruised from the rain droplets hitting your skin. You know, they just have so much energy in them. So I think that that i- you know, when you look at just the overall rainfall, you really hide something important about how erosion, um, can progress. Then, um, there’s other places in Australia that have very different characteristics. Again, they don’t have that kind of really intense rain but, you know, some of those sites are also having really bad erosion. And so it just occurred to me, I did a lot of research, you know, into what’s going on and, you know, the academics are studying erosion a whole lot, and they’ve got, you know, a lot of standardized tests and, you know, products are developed according to these standardized tests. But the standardized tests don’t actually resemble reality, and especially they don’t resemble reality in Australia. And so my client started asking me, “Okay, you know, the products that we have are, are terrible. We have to replace them every couple of years. It’s, um, causing big problems with also [00:06:00] the amount of energy that you’re losing.” One of the types of, um, leading-edge erosion or leading-edge problems that we have in Australia is that the, the coatings tend to peel off and make these, like, big flakes which will just massively disrupt the airflow, can cause y- you know, at least a few percent AEP loss, and maybe up to five. And even worse than the AEP loss is the revenue loss because it affects it most at, you know, lower wind speeds. Um, you get a bigger hit than at rated wind speeds. So there’s a variety of problems going on with leading edges in Australia, which mean that I, I basically… My clients would ask, “What product should we put on to prevent having to, you know, constantly replace this?” ‘Cause it costs, like- you know, 30, $40,000 per turbine to replace the protection, not to mention, you know, one or two days of downtime. It’s expensive, and I basically, I didn’t have a good answer for them. What, what product should they put on? I don’t know. No, we, we don’t know. One, we don’t know what the [00:07:00] specific, um, characteristics are that are… what the specific local environment, local conditions are that are accelerating leading-edge erosion, one. And two, all of the products tend to be tested around this, you know, there’s this protocol that academics have come up with, and they’ve kind of like assumed that this is representative of how things behave in the field, and it’s– I don’t think it’s particularly true anyway, but it’s especially not true in Australia. There are a few companies that are testing to different standards. Um, definitely applaud them. But without knowing wha- what are the conditions truly like in Australia, uh, it’s really hard to advise, like, what kind of tests should you be demanding from a product you’re considering to be sure that you’re gonna put it on and not gonna be replacing it again in two years. Allen Hall 2025: Because that’s really the trouble in Australia is when you get offered products They have been tested generally in somewhere in Europe and maybe in the United States, and then when they go to [00:08:00] Australia, it’s really unknown as to how those products will do, which is a huge risk for the Australian wind market as to what to choose, how to choose, is it– what’s real in terms of test data. So now you’re gonna go out and do what? Are you gonna put sensors out by the wind farms? Are you gonna try to do more of a statistical summary of the actual environment around wind farms using existing data? What’s the approach here?  Rosemary Barnes: It’s all of the above, but the part that is supported by the grant is that we’re gonna have enough money to be able to buy some scientific-grade sensors and put them on, um, a sample of Australian wind farms. So we’re gonna be looking at a lot more characteristics about the rain than simply is it raining now, you know, how many millimeters per hour. We’re also gonna be investigating, you know, every kind of characteristic of, of that, um, of that rain, um, including, yeah, like the, the energy that’s in it, for example. A, a bunch of stuff. I won’t get into every single [00:09:00] parameter. Um, and you know, other things as well, like measuring UV, solar radiation, um, particles, because, you know, in Australia we have a lot of dirt roads, which I know is very common in wind farms around the world, but Australian dirt roa- roads are always dry and dusty, like 99% of the time, so that’s one of the things that y- you know, maybe that’s causing a difference. Um, so basically putting sensors all over a bunch of wind turbines and then monitoring the erosion, um, a combination of some real-time monitoring and also looking at inspection, um, drone inspection images annually. We also have a- an option where we’ll just be using SCADA data and inspection images, so that’s like a lower cost version where we can combine that with the findings from the scientific-grade instrumented turbines to build up a picture of what types of conditions lead to accelerated erosion.[00:10:00] Allen Hall 2025: So the SCADA data will, will have some information inside of it, you think, that, uh, will correlate to the weather outside?  Rosemary Barnes: It has some Additionally, we can look up, um, you know, just the weather data, like how many millimeters fell during which 15-minute interval throughout the day, what was the temperature. SCADA will tell us also what the temperature was, um, what the speed of the turbine was, so you can calculate the tip speed, ’cause that’s an important thing. Um, yeah, so it’s, it’s two, it’s two tiers of data collection. The scientific grade sensors, as you can imagine, are, are really expensive and y- you know, the, the grant project has contributed a, a lot of funding, um, but it’s not enough to put those, yeah, put a little mini lab on top of every turbine across Australia, obviously. So that we’re using s- doing selectively, and then we can increase the number of wind farms that are included in the study by just doing this, um, cheaper version of the SCADA [00:11:00] plus, uh, weather data that’s available.  Allen Hall 2025: So what are some of the risks on the temperature side for all the high-temperature regions of Australia that have wind turbines? Clearly it’s generally warmer in Australia than it is in, in Scandinavia and Northern Europe. What kind of temperatures are we talking about on the ground?  Rosemary Barnes: Uh, well, temperatures here can get pretty close to 50 degrees. Um, and if you’ve ever been inside a wind turbine blade on a, even a mildly hot day, you’ll know that the temperature inside a wind turbine, and especially inside the blade, is much hotter than what it is, uh, what the ambient temperature is. So this project is one– I’ve actually been talking about this project for, yeah, like over 10 years now. Ever since I started, I moved to Denmark, started working for a wind turbine manufacturer, I had done– I had just finished doing my PhD on composite materials, structural design, and analysis. So, um, yeah, very, very familiar with, [00:12:00] you know, how composite materials work and, in particular, the effect that temperature has on them. I mean, like most materials, when composites get warmer, they get softer, and that is really important for a w- a wind turbine blade. You know, if it gets, um, less stiff, then you’re gonna get a lot more strain, and that is going to affect your fatigue behavior. Y- you know, fatigue is just the application of a little bit of, a small amount of strain. It’s not gonna cause damage, but when you apply it millions, tens of millions of times, like you do in a, o- over a wind turbine’s operate, um, operating lifetime, then that builds up. And, you know, wind turbine blades are a very fatigue-driven design. Um, it’s one of the most important things to consider when you’re designing a wind turbine blade. And so when I got to Denmark and I learned how materials are qualified and how the qualification is treated in the certification process, I just realized it’s not particularly conservative, and also that some of the assumptions that are made that [00:13:00] wo- again, they worked really well in more moderate climates where wind turbines have had most of their developmental history. You know, it’s not such a big deal there if you test at room temperature. Your wind turbine blade is spending most of its operating lifetime at room temperature or below. It’s, it’s rarely, you know, above 30 degrees in Denmark and most of Northern Europe and, you know, also a lot of, um, a lot of America, not, not all of it But, um, in Australia it has just extended periods above that temperature and even exceeding the temperature where, you know, wind turbines have an operating limit and after that they will shut down. But the operating limits are based on ambient temperature. It’s not based on what’s the temperature in the laminate, which is what really matters for blade lifetime. So anyway, I’ve been obsessed, like honestly obsessed about this issue for 10 years. Talked about it with anybody who would listen . But then when I started working in O&M in [00:14:00] Australia and I started seeing some wind farms with an abnormal number of cracks early… again, early in their lifetime, you know, I think one of the wind farms I was looking at was maybe three years old or four at the time. I think it was three actually, and had a lot of cracks, and I looked at a few years in a row and it was more and more cracks every year and I’m like, “Oof, this really looks like end of life fatigue behavior.” A- actually it’s not, y- you know, there’s this concept of a bathtub curve where, um, when you’re looking at failures in components, in, in anything, not just in, um, wind turbine blades, but you know, like you’d start– it’s called a bathtub because, you know, when it starts operating, you’ll get quite a lot of failures. Anything big, any manufacturing defects or anything are gonna cause failures quite fast, and that kind of drops off over time as all of those, uh, get addressed. And then you have, you know, the bulk of your operating life, it’s like pretty low level, pretty, pretty constant for a long time and then as you get towards the end of the [00:15:00] life, you start to see failure rates rise up again. That’s your fatigue failures, your end of life fatigue failures. And so when I saw the same types of cracks more and more each year, I’m like, “This looks like, you know, the foot end of the bathtub, not the head end.” And, uh, it made me worried and I’ve now seen that across a few wind farms in Australia at, um, hotter places. There’s a few blade types that are more prone to it than others, but at this point it’s still a suspicion that that’s what’s going on. I mean, a suspicion backed by a lot of, a lot of theory and knowledge of how the certification process works. But this project now we’ve got some funding to actually go put some sensors onto wind turbines, actually learn what the temperatures are in the blades throughout the whole laminate, um, not just the, you know, on the outside surface or not just the ambient temperature, but actually, you know, develop a temperature gradient across the whole, um, the whole laminate in the blade shell. Um, and [00:16:00] then we’re going to be doing a bunch of modeling basically to look at what is the effect of these different temperatures that blades are really seeing and how much would we expect to… that to decrease a lifetime. And then we should also be able to say, you know, if you have this issue in your wind farm, you might be able to change your operation a little bit and extend your lifetime a lot. Because this one, it’s real– like, in contrast to leading edge erosion, leading edge erosion is just, it’s, you know, every wind turbine has it to a certain extent, and it, it’s always there, but it’s a relatively minor cost to fix it. You know, like it sounds like a lot, like 30, $40,000 per wind turbine, but, um, you know, compared to if you’ve got to replace every blade across your fleet because they’re all, you know, at the end of their life after five years, you know, that’s obviously shocking. And, you know, that’s a bad example, but even in a y- you know, like a less extreme example, maybe [00:17:00] after 15 years you have to do a, you know, a f- a fleet-wide campaign to strengthen blades or something. It’s, you know, m- many millions of dollars for that, and so it c- could make sense to be able to learn, okay, what, what hours of operation should we be avoiding? Additionally, because when it’s super-duper hot in Australia, usually you’ve got heaps of solar power and the electricity price is not that high. So I, I think that there– and I don’t, obviously, before we’ve done the project, I don’t know what the threshold is. But in both cases, we will be aiming to improve the knowledge of how you can operate to avoid these periods of accelerated damage. Allen Hall 2025: Do you think you’re seeing more fatigue-like damage due to the blades operating when it’s hot or not operating when it’s hot, with maybe less airflow around the blade and maybe less cooling going on is just a temperature soak At rest? [00:18:00] Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. It’s interesting because the temperature is higher if it’s not rotating, um, because you get a whole lot of, um, convective heat, heat transfer when the turbine is operating. So your temperatures are not gonna get as hot when operating as when they’re standing still. However, if it’s standing still, they’re only very lightly loaded. Like, yes, they’re gonna get, um, blown by, by gusts and, um, have a little bit of bending, but it’s, it’s very, very small compared to, uh, if it is y- you know, operational loads. Uh, assuming that you’re not in the middle of a s- a storm. But yeah, a storm probably doesn’t come with 50 degrees temperatures.  Allen Hall 2025: And what part of the blade is susceptible to these higher temperatures? Is it the resin? Is it the fiberglass or carbon fiber? Or is it the, the glue, the bond joints? What part are you focused on? Rosemary Barnes: The resin is the main part that I’m focused on. It gl- it could be an issue for glue too, actually. I haven’t even looked into what the, um, yeah, temperature assumptions are with, with glue, with [00:19:00] bond lines. But the failures that I’m seeing in the field are not, are not bond line issues. It’s, it’s, um, a laminate problem. Allen Hall 2025: What about balsa and foam inside of the blade? Are they affected by the temperatures or are they pretty temperature stable?  Rosemary Barnes: I don’t think they’re affected at these kinds of temperatures, no. They, they don’t really do much actually. The, the core materials, like it, it is very important that they’re, that they’re there, but their job is really to keep the fiberglass separated from its- itself to make it stiffer. So, um, yeah, that’s, that’s unlikely to be a, a major source of problems.  Allen Hall 2025: So this study is gonna work over about three years, and you have a number of wind farms that are participating. Are you looking for more wind farms to participate in Australia?  Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I mean, we can, um, have as many as, as people want to join. We’ve got quite a good selection so far. Definitely can always welcome more. A, a bit limited in how many can get the really, um, good sensor [00:20:00]package, because the grant funding is a, you know, a certain amount, and that’s paying the bulk of those sensors. So, um, those spots are limited. So if anybody wants to really zone in on what is specifically causing erosion on their site, you know, if you know that you have got leading edge protection that is not good enough and you have to replace it soon, but you don’t know what to replace it with, then, you know, that would be the kind of wind farm that might want to consider, yeah, joining this and, um, you know, getting these sensors on their, um… We’re putting them on top of the nacelles, most of them. Um, yeah, so that would be a good match then. Um, and then, yeah, for the ones that are doing the SCADA data and, um, weather data- There’s not such a, a hard limit on how many we can have join like that. So yeah, we can have more, more like that.  Allen Hall 2025: In the temperature fatigue effort, i- is that still looking for participants or are there particular wind turbine types or manufacturers that you’re [00:21:00] looking for to participate? Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, I think, um, I, I mean yes, we can have more of those. That’s a simpler, a, a simpler issue as well. The sensors are not so expensive and, um, it’s, yeah, it’s a, it’s a simpler project to join that one. We only need, you know, a couple of turbines per site, so it won’t be such a, uh, an involved process to get everything up on into the turbines. And in terms of who might like to join that, I would say anybody that is in a really hot area where, you know, where they see a lot of days over 30 degrees, and if they see any days, you know, getting into the high 40s, then I would say that that’s worthwhile. Or even I have seen this issue in some milder sites, um, yeah, depending on the, on the blade type as well. It is more common with polyester resins. They have a, a lower op- uh, maximum operating temperature than epoxy resins. But then also just anybody that has noticed just, hey, [00:22:00] we’ve got a lot of cracks, and it seems like we’re getting more and more cracks every year, which to be honest, can be hard to keep track of if you’re… If you’ve got a full service agreement, uh, you know, an OEM managing your wind farm The early signs of this are gonna be category one and category two cracks. They’re not in exactly the same location. It’s, you know, it’s a tricky one. Normally, if you’re looking at a serial issue, then you’re going to have, uh, well, you know, your ideal pattern for a serial issue is the exact same thing happening over and over again. And so it is harder to pull this out. It also really would be very rare for it to be happening in the first two years or three years, whatever your serial defect liability period is. So it’s quite hard. But, um, another group of wind farms that might like to consider it is if you know that in, you know, a certain number of years you have to renegotiate your service agreement or, you know, it ends and you might have to take over yourself, then this’ll be a really good way for you to [00:23:00] understand, you know, have I got a ticking time bomb here? Um, because it’s not something that you’re gonna be aware of if you haven’t been, you know, doing some really, really in-depth shadow, shadow monitoring of your blades, you know, running your own inspections and looking at every single damage, not just category three, four, five, but lower ones. So yeah, I mean, there’s a, a wide variety of people that, that could be interested in joining. Allen Hall 2025: Are you expecting a number of manufacturers that make leading-edge protection or involved in resin creation, some– there’s a number of resin companies and a variety of resins that are used globally, sort of interchangeably at times. Are you expecting some of those companies to participate in this effort just to learn about the Australian environment? Rosemary Barnes: I think it would be a good opportunity to test out some products and see how they behave in the Australian context. I think that that would be a really good selling point, but I, I have to say that most of the companies doing that sort of thing that wanna enter Australia, they don’t [00:24:00] really consider… Like, from the perspective of wind farm owners in Australia, if you can’t show us wind farms in Australia where this has worked and, you know, show us a before or after, you know, the old LEP lasted Two years and our LEP is going on four years now with no damage. It, you know, unless you’ve got a before and after like that, you can tell us however many turbines that you’ve got installed around the world, but, um, we don’t consider it validated, y- you know? It’s not validated for Australian conditions yet. And I do have this same discussion over and over again with, you know, not just leading edge protection, but all kinds of, um, you know, manufacturers of whatever doodads that you put on to improve a, a wind turbine. It’s so different to Australia. Things break so fast. And I’m talking everything, you know, like vortex generators fall off and, um, yeah, like, uh, you know, bits of lightning protection systems fall off, seals just [00:25:00] crumble and disintegrate. Um, and it, you know, we’re very wary of, of new products. So I, I do– I mean, I’m thinking of it more from my client’s point of view than from the product manufacturer’s point of view. But one thing that I wanna get out of this pro- project is to be able to answer one of the most common questions that I get is, which is, what leading edge protection should I be putting on my turbine? And for now, I don’t know. I, I know a range of products that don’t work in Australia, and not much more than that. So, um, yeah. And it’s also, you know, Australia’s a very varied place with lots of different kinds of climate too. So it’s not gonna be like, you know, the product that works in Queensland is the same one that’s gonna work in Tasmania, which is the same one that’s gonna work in Western Australia. You know, um, so it, this project is gonna really pull out what are the site specific issues you’ve got at your site and what kinds of, um, you know, tests would we need to see a product um, perform in order to know that this [00:26:00] is gonna last on your site. Allen Hall 2025: W- what is the outcome of this project or these two projects? Are they gonna be reports or, uh, a, a continual monitoring system that’s designed for the Australian environment? How do you see this going?  Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, so one part of it is, um, developing a way to identify periods of accelerated damage and to know not to operate during that time. So we call it protective operation. Uh, so that would, uh, help you if, yeah, you’re trying to extend the life of something or increase the amount of time before you have to repair, then y- you know, that would be useful to have that knowledge. And it will be as simple as just an alert saying, “Hey, accelerated damage conditions. Consider, you know, if you wanna keep on operating.” And, you know, if the price of electricity is super high at that time, they may want to push through, and if it’s low, they probably won’t want to. So that’s one thing. Um, especially, you know, as wind turbines get to their, near the end of their life. I’ve got some clients whose wind farms only have, you know, [00:27:00] maybe five years operation left. They just simply don’t wanna repair their leading edge protection again. They just, they, they don’t wanna do that. So they would be happy to, you know, reduce operation a bit and have their turbine limp through to the end of the period. Y- you know, you want everything to wear out at once. You don’t want brand-new leading edge protection on a turbine that’s going to come down in a couple of years. Um, so, you know, that’s, that’s one part of it. And then the other thing is, you know, turbines earlier in their lifetime, how can we optimize the maintenance schedule with leading edge erosion? Um, so, you know, like it’s a lot cheaper to, uh, replace the LEP if you get– catch it early, but then you don’t wanna be catching it too early and replacing it, you know, constantly when you, you don’t need to. So, um, yeah, it, this, having this knowledge will enable a site-by-site operations and maintenance strategy with respect to leading edge protection. We also have some sites who are having trouble. They’ve got a full service agreement, and the OEM is [00:28:00] responsible for, um, doing the leading edge erosion repairs and protection replacement, but the owner is on the hook for paying for it. At the other end, we’ve got people with full service agreements where technically the, um, manufacturer is supposed to be doing the leading edge protection and paying for it, but they argue about what, when does it need to be done. Because, you know, um, the operator might think if there’s no structural risk, then we don’t need to be replacing it. And in the meantime, you’ve got turbines spinning around for years and years and years with, you know, these huge flakes of leading edge protection s- you know, causing the flow at the tip of the turbine to, to detach and to stall, and horrible aerodynamics, huge losses in power generation and revenue. And they’re having a big fight about, you know, is this necessary to do or not? And then, you know, they’re just gonna put the exact same product on again ’cause the [00:29:00] OEMs are re- all really, really wedded to their own particular brand. It’s like, “Well, last time we had this product and it was factory applied, it lasted one year before it s- it was worse than, you know, if it wasn’t there at all. Uh, we don’t really want you to put that one on again.” And so, you know, having the information that they need to be able to, you know, really bring data to these discussions and, you know, makes a, yeah, data not drama. That’s a, a good approach I think, um, for any kind of negotiation and especially in the case of leading edge erosion. And then for the high temperature fatigue part of the problem, aside from, you know, just wanting to know are your blades aging, should you be looking at remediation action or changing the operation, the other really big key thing is, uh, you might need to have a fight with y- your OEM about if this turbine has been designed and operated correctly. And so then having the data from this, um, project is going to give you the information that you need to come into that [00:30:00] argument with, again, the data not the drama. Um, and to, you know, in- increase your chances of succeeding in that kind of really tricky negotiation.  Allen Hall 2025: So if you’re an OEM or a manufacturer of equipment, an ISP, an operator, pretty much all aspects of wind operations, you probably ought to be getting a hold of Pardalote Consulting and Rosemary to talk about the opportunity to participate in this study. How do people get ahold of you to, to do that?  Rosemary Barnes: People can go to our website, pardaloteconsulting.com, and get in touch via the contact form there, or you can, uh, look me up on LinkedIn, Rosemary Barnes. That’s probably the easiest, fastest way to get ahold of me personally.  Allen Hall 2025: Well, Rosemary, congratulations on the Energy Innovation Fund Awards and the new three-year effort. If you are interested in participating with Pardalote Consulting and working with Rosemary and her team [00:31:00] in Australia, reach out to her on LinkedIn and get that process started, because this report and the data from all this analysis that’ll happen over the next couple of years will be important to the wind industry. So you need to spend some time and get ahold of Rosemary and get this process started now. So Rosemary, congratulations. Uh, thanks for being back on the podcast, and looking forward to, uh, the next couple of years. It sh- should be exciting.  Rosemary Barnes: Thanks so much, Allen.

Topics covered in this episode: Some more things about Django I've been enjoying Who cleans up after the vibe-coding party? Where Did All Your AI Tokens Go? AgentsView to the rescue! Careful with phishing all Extras Joke Watch on YouTube About the show Sponsored by us! Support our work through: Our courses at Talk Python Consulting from Six Feet Up Connect with the hosts Michael: Mastodon / BlueSky / X / LinkedIn Calvin: Mastodon / BlueSky / X / LinkedIn Show: Mastodon / BlueSky / X Join us on YouTube at pythonbytes.fm/live to be part of the audience. Usually Tuesday at 7am PT. Older video versions available there too. Finally, if you want an artisanal, hand-crafted digest of every week of the show notes in email form? Add your name and email to our friends of the show list, we'll never share it. Calvin #1: Some more things about Django I've been enjoying Julia Evans is learning "2010-style" web dev (Django + SQL + server-rendered HTML) after years of Go backends and JS-heavy frontends Query builders: likes defining custom QuerySet classes with chainable filter methods (.approved().future().with_tags()) — more readable than raw SQL Template filters: highlights urlize, linebreaksbr, json_script, and especially querystring for building/modifying query-string links in templates Migrations: still loves Django's auto-generated migrations — 19 and counting on her project Skips inheritance for class-based views; prefers function-based views for sharing code, though fine using Django's own mixins/interfaces Performance surprise: CPU profiling (via py-spy) — not slow DB queries — revealed the culprit; she'd accidentally disabled the cached template loader, and re-enabling it took throughput from ~2-3 req/s to ~12 req/s on a $10/mo VM Michael #2: Who cleans up after the vibe-coding party? FT Magazine piece by Sam Learner (July 11) on AI coding tools overwhelming open source maintainers - sent in by listener Dylan McConnell, whose main point was that this ran in the Financial Times, not a dev blog. cURL as the case study - Daniel Stenberg has been the only full-time person on it for years; libcurl has been installed an estimated 20+ billion times with 3,000+ listed contributors. Bug bounty killed - cURL ended its paid security bounty program in January, citing an "explosion of AI slop reports" that take real time to debunk and drain morale. Extractive contributions - authoring a PR is now nearly free, reviewing one still costs a human; tldraw's Steve Ruiz closed outside contributions entirely, asking why he'd want someone else writing the easy part. Guido weighs in - van Rossum says projects are holding emergency meetings over the slop flow, and notes LLM patches tend to touch unrelated parts of a file, making review more tedious. "Vibe Coding Kills Open Source" - paper from Miklós Koren's group: packages frequently recommended by coding models saw big download jumps with no matching engagement, breaking the reputation loop that sustains maintainers. Stack Overflow flatlined - over 100,000 questions a month before ChatGPT, under 1,500 last month, with the response rate cut roughly in half; the public archive is now stale training data. The course-creator angle - Josh Comeau's newest web dev course launched at about a third of prior enrollment, and he worries about devs who never learn which questions to ask. But the most interesting portion is what was omitted. Focused on: The end of the curl bug-bounty Omitted: High-Quality Chaos Why the omission is interesting It fits a narrative. The FT piece is a maintenance-and-decline story, and January-Stenberg is a perfect witness for it. April-Stenberg complicates it - same person, same project, better data, opposite direction on the specific claim being used. The tell is already in the article. Learner quotes Stenberg saying AI tools are much better at finding problems than fixing them. That's the April thesis in one line, and it goes undeveloped. Reason for the shift is process, not vibes. Killing the bounty removed the cash incentive and the venue change filtered the rest. Worth saying out loud, because "AI reports got better" isn't quite it - "no bounty plus a real triage platform" is closer. Joke too: Sarah O'Connor wrote a related piece (is this just before skynet launches?) Calvin #3: Where Did All Your AI Tokens Go? AgentsView to the rescue! Local-first desktop/web app for browsing, searching, and analyzing your past AI coding agent sessions (Claude Code, Codex, Copilot, Cursor, Gemini, Aider, and dozens more) Auto-discovers session files on your machine — no config needed; everything stored locally in SQLite, no cloud/accounts agentsview usage is a drop-in ccusage alternative — reads from pre-indexed SQLite, reports run 80–220× faster on large histories New Activity dashboard shows peak concurrency, active vs. idle time, agent-minutes, and cost — filterable by project/agent/machine, with a -json CLI report too Full-text + optional semantic search across every session; also imports Claude.ai/ChatGPT chat exports Install via pip install agentsview, uvx agentsview, brew install --cask agentsview, or download desktop binaries from GitHub Releases Michael #4: Careful with phishing all The situation I pass this along because it was a pretty sneaky bit of targeted phishing, and happened to play off an old interaction in bandit's repo. As usual with phishing scams there are a bunch of tells that this isn't legitimate, but just enough plausibility that I could see falling for it in a weak moment. Relative nobodies like me haven't historically been worth the effort to hit with scams this specific. Agents change the game though :-/. Be careful out there folks! Original message From: "Patrick (Blacktrace)" [HTML_REMOVED] To: LISTENER EMAIL Subject: Your Bandit #1350 (B105 NextToken false positive) -- just fixed that exact case Date: Wednesday, July 15, 2026 12:02 AM Hi AJ, Saw your Bandit issue #1350 -- the B105 hardcoded-password false positive on the string NextToken. I build a deterministic gate that filters that class of Bandit noise, and #1350 was literally the case I just fixed: NextToken / next_token / page_token / nextPageToken now stay quiet, while a genuine hardcoded token like api_token="sk-live-..." still fires. Verified against your exact case. 30-second paste: https://blacktrace.co/noise-eraser Where it still trips, published: https://blacktrace.co/kruc Curious whether it clears what you hit -- and if it trips on something of yours, that's the more useful reply. Patrick, Blacktrace I asked Claude for some analysis too. It was pretty good at finding them. The message name-drops enough real detail to feel legit, but the structure is pure phishing - everything in it exists to get AJ onto blacktrace.co. The strongest ones: Freemail sender, corporate signoff. Signs as "Patrick, Blacktrace" but sends from emailpjv@gmail.com. Real company outreach comes from the company domain, not a personal Gmail - and there's no last name. Over-specific targeting. It mirrors AJ's exact public activity - issue #1350, the B105 rule, the NextToken false positive, even the token variants. That's the "just enough plausibility" AJ flagged, and it's exactly what agents make cheap: scrape a GitHub issue, auto-generate tailored bait. Legit cold outreach rarely reads your history back to you this precisely. The entire payload is two links. Strip the technical flattery and the message is just "paste here" plus "see results here." When the whole point of an email is the click, that's the tell. "30-second paste." Low-friction urgency, and "paste" most likely means paste your source into their tool - handing your code to a stranger's site. Exfiltration dressed as convenience. Brand-new, no-reputation domain. blacktrace.co has no track record, and the name is doing some ominous work. The /kruc slug is random noise, not how real product pages get named. Precise-sounding jargon that's actually vague. "Deterministic gate," "noise-eraser" - impressive, empty. Bolted onto correct real details (B105 is the Bandit hardcoded-password test, sk-live- is a Stripe live-key prefix) to borrow credibility. The disarming close. "if it trips on something of yours, that's the more useful reply" - engineered humility that flatters your expertise and baits a response. Makes engaging feel like you're doing them a favor, which drops your guard. Extras Calvin: DjangoCon US 2026 is rapidly approaching, August 24-28, Chicago Ruff v0.16.0 massively expands its default rule set Ruff now enables 413 rules by default, up from 59 https://astral.sh/blog/ruff-v0.16.0 Michael: Completely redesigned the home page. Try /insights in Claude Code (terminal) Joke: We're Safe

Makes sense, doesn't it? Secondly, the .22 LR, when combined with modern suppressors and short barrels, changes the equation for home defense. MichaelBane.TV - On the Radio episode # 301. Scroll down for reference links on topics discussed in this episode. Disclaimer: The statements and opinions expressed here are our own and may not represent those of the companies we represent or any entities affiliated to it. Host: Michael Bane Producer: Flying Dragon Ltd. More information and reference links: Violent Crime Dropping https://www.yahoo.com/news/us/articles/homicide-rate-dropped-historic-lows-113047039.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2026/07/24/crime-rates-many-offenses-are-plummeting-across-us-for-reasons-that-arent-simple/ https://www.npr.org/2024/12/25/nx-s1-5230782-e1/the-carjacking-rate-has-started-to-drop-after-a-disturbing-jump-in-previous-years Crime Prevention Research Center/John Lott .22s for Self Protection?/Greg Ellifritz, Active Response Training Why Carry a .22?/Greg Ellifritz, Active Response Training .22 for Home Defense/USCCA Forums Top 5 Best .22LR for Self-Defense/Cassandra McBride, Ammo.com MTM Case-Gard HLST Shooting Table The Music of Paradise Husky The Music of Randy Sharp

Louis is joined in the Spotify studio by author, YouTuber and inequality economist Gary Stevenson. Gary tells Louis about growing up in a Mormon family, his disagreement with Rory Stewart, and why he thinks a wealth tax could solve financial inequality.  Please note this episode was recorded before Gary announced he was stepping back from his YouTube channel.    Warnings: Strong language.     Links/Attachments:    Documentary: How to Get Filthy Rich with Gary Stevenson (2026) - Channel 4  https://www.channel4.com/programmes/how-to-get-filthy-rich-with-gary-stevenson     Book: The Trading Game, Gary Stevenson (2024)   https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/455809/the-trading-game-by-stevenson-gary/9781802062731    Podcast: The Rest is Politics: 144. Gary Stevenson: From Teenage Drug Dealer to Millionaire Trader (2025)  https://open.spotify.com/episode/5vfmQmoA9frvGh5aRQvZLi     Book: Politics on the Edge, Rory Stewart (2024)  https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/442034/politics-on-the-edge-by-stewart-rory/9781529922868     TV Show: That Mitchell and Webb Look (2006-2010) - Channel 4  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h242eDB84zY     Video: “I'm QUITTING!" Gary Stevenson vs Piers Morgan On Wealth, Economic Growth & Elon Musk (2026) - YouTube  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLmFZBB3Apw     Article: Gary Stevenson may have been Citi's most profitable trader… in developed market foreign exchange (2026) - Financial Times  https://www.ft.com/content/5c48b680-daf6-40d2-9522-ad997eb07b63     Video: How COVID-19 MAKES the Rich Richer - Gary EXPLAINS the theory (2020)  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiblHqbpXHs     Article: The Sunday Times Rich List (2026)  https://www.thetimes.com/sunday-times-rich-list     Play: Poet In Da Corner, Debris Stevenson (2018)  https://open.spotify.com/album/2QDC46EK9W1ndEyFbFkabH     Play: My Brother's a Genius, Debris Stevenson (2026)  https://www.nyt.org.uk/get-tickets/my-brothers-a-genius-london       Credits:  Producer: Tom Fuller  Researcher: Beth Johnstone  Senior Assistant Producer: Maisie Williams  Audio Mixer: Tom Guest  Video Mixer: Alfie Butler  Production Manager: Francesca Bassett   Music: Miguel D'Oliveira   Series Producer: Millie Chu  Executive Producer: Arron Fellows       A Mindhouse Studios Production for Spotify   www.mindhouse.co.uk     Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

A lot of bird nerds and nature lovers have been keeping an eye on the bird flu arrival in our country. What can we do, what can't we do and what should we do to keep them as healthy and as safe as we can? Here are some things we can consider, published by Predator Free NZ staff: Image credit: John Bruin We are aware that some migratory birds have always been seen as carriers of that flu - it's quite logical that the skua was first found. It probably indicates that many more of these Antarctic birds are full of flu, especially when they get together in places where we, humans, rarely get to. MPI 0800 80 99 66 to report sick birds Image credit: Alex H Weller Using bird feeders? I am not too convinced that is a good idea. Big flocks of all sorts of birds could cause contaminations, maybe not bird flu, but I have seen a lot of silvereyes with Pox on their feet and faces. Yes, I know that Pox is a different issue with birds, but it simply pays to be careful with large numbers of birds hanging around bird feeders. While there is currently no official recommendation to take down bird feeders, they need frequent cleaning to help protect birds. The disease can spread through saliva on nozzle feeders, so clean them daily by scrubbing with hot water and dishwashing liquid (wear gloves and a mask!).  Open dishes and containers accumulate poop and are high risk. Predator Free recommend stopping their use immediately, which makes total sense. If you are trapping pests with eggs and raw poultry as lures… A big bucket of mayonnaise and a small squeezable container. Raw eggs and bird meat could contribute to the spread of disease. While the risk is very low for now and there is no official recommendation to stop using these lures consider phasing them out for now, especially if you use raw egg as a lure in and around your trap. As an egg alternative, we recommend egg-based mayonnaise, which is pasteurised and therefore doesn't pose the same risks as raw eggs. Image Credit: Predator Free Tamahere Keep cats safe and happy at home Cats seem to be very susceptible to severe illness from Avian Influenza H5N1 and could contract it from exposure to wild birds. Keeping cats safe and happy at home minimises the risk of being exposed to the disease, and it's best for our wildlife too. Oh, and while we are at it, keep your dog on a lead too! Makes sense, don't you think? Image credit: Fiona Taylor MPI: 0800 80 99 66 to report sick birds See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Pear and walnut bread Makes one loaf. 1 ½ cups plain flour ½ tsp baking soda ¼ tsp baking powder ½ tsp sea salt 1 heaped tsp ground cinnamon ½ cup chopped walnuts 125g butter, melted (or use oil) 1 large egg, lightly beaten 1 cup sugar 2-3 firm pears, grated to yield 1 cup 1 tsp vanilla extract Preheat oven to 175 C. Grease and line a 12cm loaf pan. Sift together flour, baking soda, baking powder, salt and cinnamon. Add walnuts and toss to coat. Set aside. In a medium bowl, lightly whisk to combine, butter, eggs and sugar. Stir in grated pear, and vanilla and stir to mix everything well. Pour pear mixture into dry ingredients and stir until just combined. Scrape batter into prepared tin and bake for 50-60 minutes or until bread is browned, risen and a skewer inserted comes out clean. Cool in the pan on a wire rack for about 10-15 minutes before turning out to cool on a wire rack, top side up. Serve slices as is or generously buttered. LISTEN ABOVESee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Vince Fakhoury Horn speaks with Mushim Patricia Ikeda about working class dharma—from growing up as "the minority of Greensburg, Ohio" in a third-generation Japanese American family, to training in penniless Korean Zen temples where renovating the building was the practice. Along the way: bliss bunnies, samadhi junkies, mutual aid networks, and why affordability may be the grassroots issue of 2026.

The first huge red Flag in the Cases against the Tates was the Social Media ban in 2022. There were no charges at that time and yet all these different companies from apple to Meta to Twitter to Google all banned Andrew and Tristan on the same day. There was no policy violation stated. They just banned them because they can. But for that all to happen at once that has to be organized from above. The only thing above all those giant companies is a government. This exact same thing happened to me as I was investing ACTUAL human trafficking and rape in the Epstein ring. I got off a flight look at my phone and I was logged out of everything because all my account other than Skype had been banned. Back then Skype was out of Estonia and not yet bought by Microsoft. I had been banned off things before but was normally allowed to appear and have them returned since I never broke any of the rules. That was just normal harassment by Zionist lying about to me get my things shut down. This was different.In the case of Andrew and Tristan both men were banned on all apps on the same day and they had millions of followers. Eventually Elon returned them to X. They never did get their other social media returned. This is an important fact because it shows that a government had it out for them and wanted to shut them up.A false allegation was tried in 2019 but it failed. This was the first rape and trafficking accusations which were in reality just girl friends who had had consensual sex. It was such a poor case that CPS dismissed it. They declined to pursue the case after a 4 year investigation because of insufficient evidence. That did not stop the BBC and other from smearing the Andrew Tate in particular and even getting the Independent Office for Police Conduct IOPC to investigate the CPS. Investigate the investigators because they didn't get the politically desired conclusion.When Hertfordshire Police failed to nail something down they simply had a second go at it with Bedfordshire Police which is where they get the new charges. But lets look at an example of the blatant media manipulation wand why the CPS rejected the accusations by Hertfordshire. This is what the BBC ran the article is still here Sounds terrible but that isn't what it really said. There are intentional omissions here. And that is criminal.If I consent it is not Rape. (no but…)What do you get from me hating it? Mr F*****g Nice Guy yeah. Makes you feel powerful? (no).This is clearly a type of role play. Furthermore the women continued datnig him and having consensual sex. for months after this. And the Police had to recognize this. Before you say well this is one case but what about the others, pause before moving the goal post and acknowledge how important this is. They created a case that was so bad that the CPS said it lacked sufficiant evidence and noted that the victims continuing the date and have sex afterwards discredits their claims. Rape victims to not keep texting much less dating and sleeping with their rapists. They waited so long that many text messages like this could have disappeared by now and wont be available to exonerate the Tate against the new claims by anonymous women. They haven't lived in the UK since 2016.Major news outlets purposely distorted the text messages by only printing what Andrew wrote without any context then accused the police who had the same context of failing at their investigation. They could not have not seen the rest of the messages! This was distorted on purpose to paint Andrew as a criminal. There was another strange incident when Andrew was on the reality show Big Brother a show an employee of mine used to work on. A sex tape was leaked which included belt slapping and play choking. This could have destroyed him right then and there. It led to him being kicked off the show. Fortunately the woman in the tape made 7 videos of her self saying that she is the woman in the tape and that it was consensual and something they were both into.Legally that mattered because it kept him out of serious legal trouble. But it was reputation damning because far more people saw they accusations than the explanation. It also establishes a pattern here that Andrew has a domineering sexual style. Many people do or they are submissive. there is nothing wrong or illegal about that. It is relevant though when a person is writing text messages. Most people do not assume hey I'll be a big celebrity one day and multimillionaire maybe I should be careful what i write to girl friends. That was all from the two thousand teens. One CPS rejected case on hold because in the UK there is no double Jeopardy. There is no right to know your accusers either. There is Epstein client appointees and actual rape gangs being ignored and repeat offenders in the country illegal that end up stabbing people to death and something the cops arrest the stabbing victims. As well as MPs engaged in child pornography and bestiality Florida's Attorney General Jame Uthmeier who opened an investigations into the Tates for the crime of visiting his state, is himself involved in moving ten million dollars from a medicaid settlement into his own PAC. Oh and he will not confirm or deny if he is keeping the conclusion of the grand jury on that matter secret. It would take a long time to explain the utter f******t that was Romania. In the midst of the Calin Georgescu affair, smae honnest prosecutor of the Tates involved in that too, DIICOT fumbled the bag in 2024 while Biden was still president, as they didn't correctly follow procedure. They were given time to correct their mistakes and still they could not do so and thus by early 2025 the Tates were free from judicial control. The case did not go away though.This case was ridiculous. There were women listed as victims who themselves said on film that they are not victims. It ultimately hinged one one women who is extremely not credible. For example in a different lawsuit because she has several against here we get this exchangeNot only are her lies insane she is talking about maintain her lies in order to lie to a court! Father's suicide, brothers overdose, mother trying to take your house, mom finding out we are still seeing each other, mother's boy friend molesting you, 2 fake vivid rape videos, 2 fake pregnancies, 5 fake family members, completely fake sudden discovery of adoption, mother on a meth binge and lying about her age and lying to court. She also posted pictured of herself eating out of a dog bowl with her sides of her pussy lips visible in extremely hiked up Daisy Dukes. A real class act. She claimed the Tates held her against her will when they were not even in the same country 3 of the 5 days she was there. She had her cell phone money and was free to go whenever which is what she did. Her grand “escape” was imply buying tickets online taking an Uber to the airport and leaving. She wasn't even in their house but a home near by that had English/Romanian speakers. She talked with another girl about how she deserved an Oscar and how she planned to cry etc. This is all written down! IF that had ever seen a trial she would have been creamed. But sadly that December trial will now not occur as the brother will be fighting extradition and then these knew UK charges until they are gray haired old men if they live that long. It gets worse too. We know that NGO were involved in orchestrating the whole thing and that the UK pressured Romania to cook something up. Because of the Tate's webcam business they found an angle to attack from. All the Tate haters who didn't like what they said politically online of course were true believers without any evidence needed because it fit their world view. Now we have two men, 38 and 39 facing the rest of their lives in prison still without any convictions, and yet they are in solitary confinement. That goes against the 5th amendment and several state constitutional amendments. But it is two tiered justice. Florida had the most Epstein activity and it was Florida that gave him and his cohorts the Sweetheart deal.More updates pending as the trials move along next one is July 27thRyan Dawson's Anti-neocon Report is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.ryandawson.org/subscribe

Hello and welcome listeners to Episode 29 of Side Quest Podcast. On this episode, your hosts, Jake from Guitar Case Full of Reviews and David from Journey with a Cinephile: A Horror Movie Podcast jump back on the mics to look at an infection/body horror film. The movie selected was Splinter (2008). Jake had seen this years ago and it was his first time watch for David. Makes for an interesting discussion as we look at what works and what is left out for interpretation! Thank you for listening and we hope you enjoy coming on this journey with us!Also make sure you check out Jake over on Guitar Case Full of Reviews along with everything else that he does along with his social media at Dark Mariachi Studios.Social Media:Dark Mariachi Studios: ⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠Email: journeywithacinephile@gmail.comWritten Reviews: https://horrorreview.webnode.com/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dgarrettjrTwitter: https://www.twitter.com/buckeyefrommichLetterboxd: https://letterboxd.com/davidosu/Instagram: davidosu87Threads: davidosu87Journey with a Cinephile Instagram: journeywithacinephileThe Night Club Discord: Journeywith a CinephileJoin Screamify: https://shorturl.at/Z6b9l

“Your intuition is giving you the truth.” In this episode, Nick shares insights on the importance of rest, self-awareness, and listening to your intuition to improve mental health and productivity. He discusses personal experiences and practical questions to help you recognize when you’re feeling “off” and how to realign. What to listen for: The importance of rest and self-care Recognizing signs of burnout and feeling off Using intuition and body signals to guide actions The role of self-awareness in mental health The process of pausing and realigning during busy times Personal stories of overcoming burnout The significance of small moments of reflection Tools for developing intuition and self-checks Encouragement to take regular rest and listen to oneself “Take a moment to rest and ask yourself what feels off, and then move along from there” Pausing for a moment between thought and action can drastically change our approach When we feel “off” inside, there's a signal being sent up to say “hey! There's something you need to look at in here” “We get to choose: Do I just put some dirt on it and keep going? Or do I pause for a second and ask, “What's up? Why am I feeling this? What am I actually feeling right now?” Understanding we have a choice in every moment, even if the only choice is how we respond Checking in with ourselves periodically brings attention to our feelings and can ultimately lead us to our desires When we know who we are at our core, we then have a gauge for when we're feeling “off” from that core. About Nick McGowan I'm Nick McGowan, an entrepreneur, podcaster, and mental health advocate, and I’ve been on a 20+ year journey of personal development, learning to master my mindset, emotions, and the art of living with purpose. As a Mindset and Self-Mastery Mentor, I work with ambitious men and women who want to live their most authentic and joyous lives by helping them master their mindset, emotional awareness, and authentic communication. My mission is to empower people to lead lives that feel aligned, grounded, and truly their own. Throughout my career, I've built teams, streamlined systems, and improved client experiences across SaaS, media, marketing, and personal development spaces. Whether I'm leading cross-functional projects, optimizing SEO, Podcasting, designing strategies, or guiding clients through transformation, I bring a hands-on, solution-focused approach to everything I do. I'm also the host of The Mindset and Self-Mastery Show, where my guests and I unpack the stories that shape us, challenge us, and ultimately guide us back to who we are at our core. On this show, we uncover the secret gems others have discovered through trial and error and breakthroughs, so you can fast-track your growth and master your mindset in your pursuit of self-mastery. Check out the latest episode here. With years of podcasting and two decades of marketing experience, I've mastered the storytelling, interview flow, strategy, and technical production that elevate a podcast from “just content” to something truly impactful. Whether you’re a leader looking to amplify your message, a seasoned speaker and podcast host looking to sharpen your edge, or even a beginner who is wondering how to share their message, I mentor thought leaders through every step of having the conversation they’re here to have on this planet. So, what message are you here to share?! https://nickmcgowan.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/thenickmcgowan/ Resources: Check out other episodes about adjusting our mindset for rest and transition Internal Reflection And Self-Care With Dr. Nekeshia Hammond How To Transform Your Mindset And Boost Performance With Steve Magness Interested in starting your own podcast or need help with one you already have?Learn how Nick can help! Learn more about our host, Nick McGowan: https://nickmcgowan.com/ Thank you for listening! Please subscribe to the show on iTunes and give us a 5-Star review! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-mindset-and-self-mastery-show/id1604262089 Listen to other episodes here: https://themindsetandselfmasteryshow.com/ Watch Clips and highlights: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCk1tCM7KTe3hrq_-UAa6GHA Guest Inquiries right here: podcasts@themindsetandselfmasteryshow.com Your Friends at “The Mindset & Self-Mastery Show” Click Here To View The Episode Transcript Nick McGowan (00:04.814)Hello, and welcome to the Mindset and Self-Mastery Show. I’m your host, Nick McGowan. Today on the show, I want to talk about us just taking the time to give ourselves rest. I think there are times where we as people will just drive ourselves crazy. we drive ourselves mad, just doing all these things, all the things that we feel other people are telling us to do or the world tells us to do. Sometimes we just need to rest. And I wanted to take this time to share a message of suggesting that you rest, partially because it’s coming from a personal experience. I have been working a lot over the past few months, working a lot of a lot of projects for clients. I have my own strategy for the podcast and I’ve updated that. I six months of content I put out and all aligned so that we’re on the same page. I’m not just blasting out random messages and stuff like that. But doing all that work because of a really challenging end to a chapter that happened recently got me to a point about a week ago where I could feel there’s a little bit of burnout starting to set in. The reason why I’m doing this episode now is today is one of those days where I’ve canceled a few meetings and instead chosen to make a podcast episode. I have a client call later today, some project work to do, and then a bunch of music to play. And that is my choice, but it’s also my choice to make sure that I’m choosing those things for my health. I think there are times where we will do things consistently and we get into a pattern almost like how you can probably drive to the grocery store without even really thinking about it. We just we just do it subconsciously. We’re just travel there and we’re good. Sometimes we’ll be thinking about something else or you know, maybe you’re texting or looking at your phone or whatever, and you just magically end up at the store. Sometimes that happens in life more so than we think about it. Going to your office, picking up your kids, going out to meet with friends, whatever the things are, even if they’re novelty or something you don’t do all the time, you can still get in the habit and just be used to doing those things without actually asking yourself, why are you doing those things? Sometimes it’s also really tough to ask yourself, why am I still here? Or why am I doing this? Or Nick McGowan (02:34.358)Why with whatever it is? Could be a job, could be a relationship, could be something you’re experiencing inside, something that you’re trying to work on or work through. Either way, as those situations happen, we have an opportunity and a responsibility in some ways to be able to look at that and say, well, do I want this? Do I not want this? Is there something underneath that’s telling me, hey, something’s slightly off? And it can be really easy to not listen to that. You’ve probably gone through things where you look and it’s let’s say the holiday season. Next thing you know, it’s summer. Here we are. I’m recording this in June. So by the time you listen to it, it’ll probably be July, middle of the summer. You might be on vacation, you might be doing different things. There’s a lot of pushing and pulling, of taking people different places or vacations. People come into town, or you go visit different people or Just a weekend at the beach or the mountains or whatever that thing is. But those things aren’t always as restful as we need them to be. Sometimes the moment that we really need is a bit of a longer moment to just be restful. So let’s just hang out for a second. Just rest. Are you in your car? Are you at the office? Are you at home? You have a lot of people around you. Are you like in a coffee shop with everybody doing their thing around you? No matter where you’re at, I challenge you to take this moment just to be. Now, if you’re driving, don’t close your eyes. just be, just be present, just be here. And is there some feeling that comes up? Something that says, maybe this feels good, I don’t experience this enough, or something that says, you know, this feels really bad because I don’t feel like I can or should experience this. Those are telltale signs to tell us that there’s something that’s going on underneath. If we get past or through, or even around that, we think about there are times where we feel somewhat off. Nick McGowan (04:51.146)Let’s unpack that a bit. In those moments where you feel off, at least for me, when I feel off, there are different flavors to what’s off. The burnout that I feel at times is most often because I’m doing things that, yes, I may really enjoy those, because I really do my best to not do the things I don’t enjoy anymore. Obviously, there are responsibilities and things that we kind of have to do. Like, I don’t really want to pay for my car. But I want to keep my car so I will continue to pay the car note, you know, like that sort of thing. but then there are other things that we do that if we just adjust those slightly or take a pause, just a beat for a second, step back and say, what am I feeling? What’s feeling off right now? I’ve learned with myself that I can ask those questions and go maybe within like a 24, 48 hour range. What happened yesterday? Or is there something coming up in a few days? That I’m maybe concerned about or worried about or even just processing through. Like I have a I have a meeting coming up in a few days. It’s an event where I’m speaking and talking with lot of people and I’m excited. There’s also a little bit in there of like, what should I prep, or what else do I need to get ready for, or what have you. So we all have those little things that just they’re processing in the background. That’s different than not having the energy or the drive or the motivation even. To start or continue on with the thing. It’s in those moments where we get to choose: do I just put some dirt on it and just keep going? Or do I pause for a second and say, what is up? Why am I feeling this? What am I actually feeling? I had an experience the other day where I was at kind of a crux point in a sense, like a fork on the road, where I could keep on a path. I was working on a client project and I was at a spot where I don’t know, maybe another five, 10 minutes, and I could have been like, cool, I can put a bow on that. I can just move along and I can go do something else. But I felt for like a solid 15, 20 minutes leading up to this moment, just not right. Like I just didn’t want to do it anymore. There are different times where we as people can just like not want to do a thing. I don’t want to be here anymore. And you can just Irish exit or walk out or run or whatever. then there are other times where we think, well, I don’t want to be here because of something or some situation or this is Nick McGowan (07:19.042)Hard or tough or what have you. I go through those, like I’ll ask those questions. So I’ll take a little bit of a step back, especially in that moment. I sat back in my chair and was like, what am I feeling? Is it just that I don’t want to do this right now? That I just want to do something else? Like it is is it as simple as I just want to go walk outside for a minute? Like just not be in this energy? And asking those initial questions will help us understand if there’s something that’s really close to it. That we can say, it’s this thing. Duh, let me just take care of that. And then we’re good and you’re good to go. I’ve experienced that where it’s like, well, I felt like this nagging thing was in the background. Like I need to go switch over the laundry or something like that. Be well, instead of just pushing that off, let me go do that. Let me just take the five minutes to do it, come back and be good to go. Then you’re done. You’re no longer thinking about that. That’s no longer processing back there. But that’s vastly different than there’s something underneath it all. That is like, I don’t think this is the right time for you to do this. So that moment that I had, I went through, I went through my questions and was like, what is it? What am I feeling? What do I want? It wasn’t that I didn’t want to do the project. I could have just kept going with the project. It was literally one of those situations where I was like, you know, I could keep going on this thing and I could probably spend another three, four hours doing this. And it would have been okay. But not exactly what I needed to do. And I knew that. Nick McGowan (09:08.76)So when I asked myself, do I really want to stop this or do I just want to keep going? Like I knew I was at a time where I could keep going. Again, I could do it for another three, four hours, be totally good. And then maybe at the end of that, go, my God, I don’t even want to look at my computer. Let me go do something else, like out of the house or wherever, you know. but I felt in that moment, like this is one of those really good moments where I go, Well, I could keep down this path and I’d probably be okay. And not totally burn out or feel like I wasted the day or anything like that. Or I could sit here a little longer, another minute or two, and figure out what’s really underneath of it. So I ended up putting that project to the side, actually stopped at that moment, which I don’t think that I have OCD, but there are times where, and you’ve maybe experienced this, like if you just spent another five, 10 minutes on a thing, you would have gotten to a point where you go, cool, bow tied. I’m able to put that to the side. Then when I come back, I can kind of start freshly with it. I just stopped. I was like, this is where I’m at. I’m done. When I opened the project the next time, it did take me an extra few minutes to go, all right, cool. I see what I did. Cool. Perfect. And I was able to move from there. So it’s not like it messed anything up, but in that moment, I didn’t really care. It could have put me back another half hour, or it could have potentially put me ahead by doing something different. So stopping that thing, I felt the power that I have the ability to be able to say, no, and that doesn’t feel right for me to do right now. I also understand that this isn’t always the case for everybody. You can’t be in the middle of a meeting and say, I don’t want to be here right now and expect that it should just be okay. You can’t be in the middle of a conversation with your kid or your partner and just go, I don’t want to be here and expect that it’s going to be okay. That’s just not how those things work. But in these different little experiences, and especially when we’re by ourselves, I think that’s where we get to work on this stuff. So if you’re in your office or you’re at home or you’re wherever you’re at, and you feel that moment of this doesn’t feel right for me to do. And you start to ask yourself, is it because I just don’t want to do the thing anymore? Or is it because I feel like I really want to go do something else? Like I’ve experienced that at times where I’m like, there’s some basketball game or something on. Like, I don’t want to do this thing. I want to go watch the game. Nick McGowan (11:35.37)And sometimes I will, sometimes I’ll do both, and you know, whatever. Like, but we get to figure that stuff out in those moments. So if you ask yourself in those moments, like, what’s going on? What am I feeling? Do I really want to do this? Do I not want to do it? Is it is there something underneath of it all? And really what I’m trying to get to is that underneath layer. Like, find what’s underneath, like what’s what’s boiling the magma underneath there? It’s starting to make the ground shake in a sense. Because then in that moment you’re able to understand if I put my energy into that. That’s potentially going to help the rest of the energy that I have. And also probably that other project. So when I stopped working on that project the other day, I knew I could keep going. And there was a part of me that was like, man, you got it. Like you can just keep going. Just knock this thing out. Close this chapter of this project so you can move along to the next thing, which does make me feel really good. I love being able to kind of close things out and go, Great, I’m gonna hand it off to the client, or I’m gonna hand this off to this person. You take it. Great, and I’m good, and I can move along to the next thing. I also know about myself that I’m a project person. I really love my projects. I’m multi-passionate, but I love digging into the things that I do. You may be similar. So if you enjoy that, it can be hard at times to stop on a project. But again, back to that moment. I stopped that project a little earlier than I wanted to and moved along through a series of a few different events that led me to a breakthrough. And the reason why I put it that way. Is because it took me walking outside, getting in my car. I went to the post office because I had to drop some stuff off and came back, cleaned up the kitchen a little bit and went to the bathroom. It just like did odds and ends little things here and there, but also things that felt like I was led to do. Just like as simple as the bathroom. Like we know when our bladder’s like, yo, dude, you gotta go. So you just kind of walk your way on back. Same deal. could feel it intuitively of like, I’m gonna go step outside. I’m just gonna run to the post office. I’m gonna clean up the kitchen. I’m gonna go to the bathroom, I’m gonna do this, gonna do that. Within about, I don’t know, maybe 15, 20 minutes, 30 minutes, something like that. Post office is only a few minutes away, so it’s not that big a deal. But within a short period of time, I was back at my computer and had my guitar in my hand. And I just felt more at ease. Nick McGowan (13:59.862)It’s not like there was better or some major difference, but I could feel a little lighter and a little more at ease. I’ve realized that that tells us that we’re doing something more right for ourselves. Not like we were doing things wrong before, but this is one of those things that feels more right to do. Great. It can also go against the system of the world that says you’re not doing enough, you’re not producing enough, you’re not. Creating, you’re not blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I felt some of that where I was like, I’m not doing the project work stuff. That’s money and that’s clients. And I appreciate my clients. I appreciate the money. I love working with the people I do and like I’m on I’m on board with them and their projects and like I’m in it with them. And also can still pause that, take a step away, do some other things and work on our own projects. The main reason why I’m talking about this and that it stood out to me. was I’ve been writing an album for several years. You’ve probably heard me talk about how I reformatted a hard drive about a year ago and lost everything. so I’ve started over again. And even in the past two months, maybe month and a half, two months, I’ve taken the songs that are going to go on my album and I’ve said, great, I’m here where they’re at with their demo, and just put them to the side and start it over. I literally picked up my acoustic and just started to build the song again from a single player, a singer, songwriter, and just build it and then turn it to a band and all that stuff, et cetera. So I’ve been working through this and literally reworking these things. So that’s where I ended up getting to was one of these songs. I have been bashing my head in a way to try to figure out the chorus of one of the songs. And it’s just not feeling right. Just not. If you’re creative and you have different projects you work on, you know there are things, even if it’s with your hands, like playing an instrument or woodworking and stuff like that, where you’re just not fully there yet. It’s not fully done. Like a a piece maybe isn’t fully sanded down or fully completed. We know when it is. We can feel it inside of us. And in that, I don’t know, maybe thirty, forty-five minutes or so that I was just messing around, just getting my energy right, I figured out the chorus. Nick McGowan (16:24.566)And it literally came from a frustration point of saying, I don’t like this. I really don’t know where to go with it. But I know that there’s something here. I know that I know the messages within it. I just need to hear it. I need to feel it and then let it come out of me. So I literally hit record and just let it come out of me. And it did. I don’t think this is going to be like one of those classic songs that people will cover and sing for. eons, maybe, who cares? I don’t know. I don’t really care. But I know that that moment happened because of the other moments that happened. I took the moment to say something feels off. Huh. What do I do? Well, what can I do to feel on? You know? How can I make this change? And asking those questions and intentionally looking for the feeling that I would have inside for the intuition to go, go this way. Go that way. Try this thing, do that. I’ve learned with my intuition, and I believe this is probably true with everybody’s intuition, that it’s giving us the truth and it’s suggesting things that feel deeply connected to our bodies. That could be get the hell out of this place, or that could be go run toward that person and talk to them, or whatever it is. And it’s not a mental thing. It’s an intuitive, it’s a body, it’s an energy thing that we feel, this is it. This is where I’m going. This is where I feel led to. There was probably, I don’t know, a series of 10, 20 different ones of those, like little check-ins and stuff, just in that short, let’s say hour amount of time. The time from having the feeling and then starting to do things outside of that, and music and working on it and all, et cetera. That to me is life. Like those moments where we get to actually think about that and break that down, especially right now, as you’re listening to this and as we’re talking about this and breaking this stuff down, this is a safe kind of lab space to be able to work on this stuff. It’s because when we do that work now, when we get into those situations, we then get to go, you know, I’ve been here before. Even if it was mental reps or Nick McGowan (18:40.364)I’ve been somewhere close to it or I feel a little bit more confident in being able to go into this, even if I don’t know exactly what the hell’s going on or how it’s going to work out or whatever. We’re more equipped in that moment. I think about it as like game tape with athletes. They’ll watch what they did and then they’ll watch how terrible they played or whatever it was and look at the nuances and changes. Not so they can go, man, all right, well, I want to go back to yesterday and redo the game. No, you can’t do that. At least science hasn’t shown us how to do that yet. So they’ll take that and go, all right, cool. So next time when I’m in that exact spot, what I should do is actually go right instead of left and then pivot on one foot or whatever. They’ll lock that into their brain. Same for us. Like with that moment, I was like, something feels a little off. And I’ve learned from my years of doing this that I go, huh? Let me pause. What is it? And I don’t turn it into some big weird thing. Like, I mean, this is this is a teaching, an educational kind of experience in a sense. Where you’re listening and taking this in to go, all right, cool, I hear you, dude. And yeah, next time I’m in this sort of situation, I can do this thing. But it’s not like I’m in those situations. I’m like, my God, this is the biggest thing ever. I’m so excited. No, most times it literally just happens and I’m like, fuck, what the fuck do I feel all for? And I’ll start to work through this. And I’ve realized that these frameworks that work for me, work for other people, but that they they all work in the way that they work. Like I’m not a huge fan when somebody says, here’s a thing that I figured out. I don’t give a shit what your context is, just like go do it, and you will have the exact same experience. It doesn’t make any sense, like at all, because everybody’s context, everybody’s life, everybody’s experiences are so different. Even the same people who grew up the same way, the same house, experience different things. So those moments in that little framework, it’s just a series of questions of check-ins. Which you can do with nobody knowing. So you can be in your office thinking, do I really want to be here anymore? What’s going on? Why really want to slap that person in the face? Cause the thing they just said was the dumbest thing I’ve heard all day. well, I’m typically not a violent person, so why do I want to slap them? You know, like thinking through that sort of stuff. but really taking a moment just internally to check in and say, What am I feeling? What’s happening right now? Because if you know at your Nick McGowan (21:05.72)Core that you are naturally one way, or your tendency is toward one way, and you’re off from that, then that’s a simple deduction. Like those two things aren’t aligned, you’re off. I know at my core, I’m naturally curious and really inquisitive. Like I ask a lot of questions, I’m super curious, and I see patterns and things, and I’m joyous and I get all excited. I also know there are times where maybe I only slept four hours that night before. So I’m not naturally that way, but I can realize the difference between my body just feels drained, or I at a soul level feel drained. But it’s not often clear right up front. So my challenge to you is in those moments, next time one of those moments comes up where you feel slightly off, just pause and sit in yourself and ask what feels off. Again, if you’re in like a meeting or in front of people or something, you’ll need to just do that quickly internally. And I say quickly in the sense that I don’t want you to get through it just to get through it. I want you to figure out as quickly as you can, intuitively, like what feels off. And just ask, all right, intuition, what feels off right now? And if you don’t hear anything right up front, okay. I think sometimes we can kind of calcify our intuition. And make it hard to hear the certain things. And the more work that we do and the more hearing we can hear from it, the louder things get, the more we can feel that. I’ve seen that within my experience and that might be similar to yours. I’ve heard that is similar with other people as well. It’s like a muscle. The more you work it, the more you work and the more you can hear it. So doing this and asking these questions will also help with that, but also then help you understand there might be something that comes up that goes, man, you’re really upset about what happened this morning with you and your partner. But here I am, six hours later in the middle of a meeting, talking about some production thing or some product or whatever the thing is. Understanding where you’re at and what feels off then gives us an opportunity and again a responsibility to either do something with it in that moment or to pause with it, kind of put a pin and then come back to it and do some work with it. If you’re able to do something in the moment, like I was in my situation, where I went, pause, I’m gonna go. Nick McGowan (23:27.042)Do something else because I can feel slightly off, then do that. If you can’t in that moment, then just get back to it a little later and get back to that feeling of what were you feeling in that moment. That’s why I like to be able to do this stuff as quickly as possible, because you’re right there and you’re feeling it. You don’t have to think back to it or try to get your body to remember what it felt like. You can then just go right there, like it just happened. I feel it right now. But taking the rest that you need. And the moment to be able to understand what’s going on is vastly important. And oftentimes we can get so swept up in how life is and everything that’s going on that you wake up in the morning and the next thing you know, it’s 10, 11 o’clock at night, and the whole day has just flown by. I think about how sometimes we as people, and especially millennials, we seem to just be drawn toward toward our phones to just have that dopamine after a little while. And I do that too. There are times where I’ll end up on Instagram or LinkedIn or Facebook or something for something silly. Like I pulled up, I I’m a group expert in a Facebook group for podcasters. I think there’s like 120,000 people in the group. It’s a pretty large group. So I’ll hop on every once in a while, look at somebody’s question or apply something back. And then next thing you know, it’s like 20 minutes later I’m just thumbing through looking at dumb shit. It’s like, but we as people will subconsciously pull ourselves back to that because it’s familiar. It’s also a little dopamine hits, et cetera. And it’s in that moment of understanding that I’m aware of this right now, where we can go, I just want to put this down and go do something else. And those little moments where we get to do something else and the responsibility and the action that we take at that point actually helps us become better in those tougher moments. Now that moment that I had of saying, I’m at a project point where I can stop or keep going, but I feel like there’s something else for me to do, isn’t the same pivot point of a building’s about to fall down or the world’s going to collapse. I I don’t know. I’m just making stuff up, but like these aren’t these aren’t life and death experiences. But there are times where that stuff can happen. And it’s this stuff now and these moments now when we can work on this to then be potentially in a better spot. Nick McGowan (25:46.67)It’s like you don’t know what’s going to happen in those times, but you can at least do the work leading up to it so that you know, look, I can probably handle this a little better than I would have been able to hadn’t I not done any of this work. So my challenge to you is take some rest. Take it this weekend. Take it over the course of the next week, two weeks during that rest, and whatever amount of rest that you get. Just sitting there by yourself. And I’m not talking about sitting on your phone or even reading or something like that. I’m saying just being, being with ourselves, because then we can listen to ourselves. And it can be really hard to do that at times, especially if you’re not used to it. No, for me, I get into just a rhythm with life where I’m just moving and grooving. There are times when I really understand I need to slow down and just listen. And it can be really loud, white noise to just sit there and listen. So my challenge is for you to do some of that in whatever capacity you can. And whatever time that you have, if it’s 30 seconds, if it’s a minute, if it’s two hours, who cares? Just spend the time over, let’s say, the next week or even a few days to be able to check in with yourself and understand what am I feeling right now? What’s happening? What feels off? Or on the opposite side of that, what feels totally on. Because then we can say, these things aligned with me and make me feel really excited and really on. How I do more of those things? Hell, that’s kind of how I got into the podcasting stuff. I’ve had my podcast for almost five years at this point, but started working with clients, podcasters, and thought leaders, maybe about a year into the podcast. And over the years, it’s just grown and grown. And I get more and more excited about working with people who are brand new or people who’ve been doing it for a little bit and trying to figure out strategy and just how all this stuff works. Because of all the stuff that I’ve done in the past. Nick McGowan (27:48.166)different moments I can look back to and go, I really didn’t like this one job, but I loved this part of it. And I loved meeting with these people who helped me understand this, et cetera. I guess an easy example, I’m very process driven because if I wasn’t, I would be all over the place. And I understand that about me. And I’ve also had it kind of beaten into me with different agencies I worked with and worked for, where we have to have a process in place. And that process allows us to kind of play jazz in the middle of it. Makes total sense. Great. So now I incorporate that in basically everything I do. I use a project management tool for all of life and don’t always use it, but I still have it and I work on it and I do these things to be able to help myself be in a better spot where I can say, this is more of what I want. And that’s really what it’s about, being more aligned with who we are at our core and doing things more so of what we want because of that alignment. Not like I just don’t want to be at my job, so I’m just gonna leave. Or I want to go spend forty thousand dollars on some crazy dragon PRS or something. Like, cool. I mean, you can do whatever you want, but in all reality, why are you doing those? Like, what is what’s the alignment with that? And what is the purpose to it? So again, thinking about the situation I went through, I could have kept working on the client project. I really enjoy my clients. I enjoy the project work. I’m a nerd with this stuff, so I could keep at it. Or something feels off. I can go do something slightly different and then use that energy in a different way. I I hope I am able to do that a lot more throughout life. And I suspect I will be able to, because I’ve seen that I’ve been able to. Over the past few years, more and more and more and more of that happens, which is why I have more of these episodes to be able to talk about these things, because I want you to be able to understand. Not only are you capable of doing this, but probably better of doing it than I am. And in your own way. This isn’t a competition. In fact, any of the stuff that I go through, I’ve learned that it’s really part of my responsibility to share. And the way that I look at it and how I’ve experienced these things, to share with other people, to then take that in their own lives. You might listen to this and go, cool, Nick, heard, but fuck, that sounds stupid. Okay. Nick McGowan (30:14.316)You might listen to this and go, Nick, that is wonderful. I felt the same thing. I appreciate the framework. I’m going to do more of this. Great. My job is just to share. Your job is to interpret the information, figure out what you want to do with it, and use some of it or not, and move along from there. My encouragement to you is to be able to take those moments of rest and really to be self-aware enough to see that you need that rest or that something is slightly off. The more that we can do that in the smaller moments, the more it’ll add up in the long term. So if you need help figuring out how to go about this way, figuring out how to become more self-aware, or just really struggling with your mental health or overall mindsets and trying to figure out what self-mastery means for you, then reach out to me. Offer free clarity sessions to be able to figure out where you’re currently at, where you want to go, and how we can get there together. And I would love to work with you and at least hear where you’re at with things. And if I can give you some free resources or guidance or wisdom, I’d be happy to do so. And also if it makes sense for us to work together on a mentoring perspective, I’d love to explore that with you. But please try this. Try, try, try this. Just take that moment. When you feel off, just take a moment to rest and ask yourself what feels off, and then move along from there. Even if you don’t want help mentoring or don’t want to talk, totally fine. But I would love to hear from you how it has been working for you. Because I think these little pivotal moments for us start to shape things way down the road that we don’t know that we’re starting to work on, but we can do this work right now. So I appreciate you listening. I appreciate you being here. And I appreciate that you take this stuff and you do some work with it. Again, I’d love to hear how it’s working for you. And if you need some support and need some help. Please reach out. And again, thank you for listening today.

With Constantine Hatzivassiliou—Partner, Certuity Golf taught Constantine Hatzivassiliou how to perform under pressure. Building a nearly $5B multi-family office taught him that the best advisors become the first call when life, not just the markets, gets complicated. In Summary Many advisors spend years mastering investments, but for affluent families, portfolio management is often just the starting point. Jason Diamond welcomes Constantine Hatzivassiliou, Partner at Certuity, to discuss how his journey from aspiring professional golfer to leader of a nearly $5B multi-family office shaped his approach to client service. Their conversation explores why trust is earned long before a crisis, how family office services evolve naturally from client needs, and why the advisor's role increasingly resembles that of a quarterback coordinating every aspect of a family's financial life. The discussion also examines organic growth, referrals, fiduciary advice, private equity's impact on the RIA landscape, and the qualities that allow advisors to become indispensable over decades—not just market cycles. The Storyline Many advisors spend years perfecting investment management. But as clients become more successful, the job changes. The questions become bigger than portfolio construction. A business is being sold. A family dynamic shifts. A tax issue emerges. An estate plan needs updating. Suddenly, the advisor isn't simply managing assets—they're coordinating decisions, relationships, and emotions. For Constantine, that broader role was shaped long before he entered wealth management. As an aspiring professional golfer, he learned lessons about discipline, preparation, and performing under pressure that continue to influence how he serves clients today. Jason and Constantine explore how Certuity grew from approximately $210 million in assets to nearly $5B, not through acquisitions but through referrals and a service model built on becoming indispensable to the families they advise. Constantine explains why he believes the best advisors function more like quarterbacks than portfolio managers, orchestrating the many moving pieces that come with significant wealth. The conversation also examines the evolution of the multi-family office model, the role of fiduciary advice, the impact of private equity on the advisory landscape, and why experience, judgment, and trust remain the qualities clients value most. Ultimately, this episode is about what it takes to become the first call when life – not just the markets – becomes complicated. Topics Covered Lessons from professional golf that translate to wealth management Building Certuity from $210mm to nearly $5B in assets What distinguishes a multi-family office from a traditional RIA Why referrals fuel long-term organic growth Becoming the “first call” for affluent families Fiduciary advice and the evolution of the advisory profession Family office services beyond investment management Private equity and M&A in the RIA space Developing the next generation of advisors Trust, relationships, and lifetime client service > Download a transcript of this episode… Listen and Learn Highlights for Advisors How did professional golf prepare Constantine for advising wealthy families? (3:45) Constantine explains why competing under pressure taught him discipline, emotional control, and process—qualities that now guide every client relationship. How did Certuity grow from $210 million to nearly $5 billion? (8:00) He shares why nearly all of the firm's growth has come organically through client referrals rather than acquisitions or aggressive recruiting. What separates a multi-family office from a traditional advisory firm? (11:45) The conversation explores how expanding into trust, estate, tax, and family office services became a response to client needs—not a business strategy. Why should advisors think of themselves as quarterbacks? (20:00) Constantine recounts a client business sale that fell apart at the closing table and explains why advisors often become the person holding everything together. How does Certuity view private equity and acquisitions? (36:20) Jason and Constantine discuss when outside capital can make sense—and why Certuity has chosen a different path centered on client alignment. Why do wisdom and experience still matter in an AI-driven world? (29:30) Despite advances in technology, Constantine argues that judgment, trust, and perspective remain the qualities affluent families value most. Key Takeaways High-net-worth clients increasingly value coordination, judgment, and perspective over investment selection alone. Family office services often evolve naturally as advisors respond to increasingly complex client needs. Sustainable organic growth is rooted in trust, which explains why referrals account for the overwhelming majority of Certuity's new business. Golf and wealth management share the same disciplines: preparation, emotional control, patience, and executing under pressure. The most valuable advisors become trusted partners during life's defining moments—not simply portfolio managers. Technology continues to reshape wealth management, but experience and wisdom remain difficult to replicate. Building a lasting advisory business requires investing in culture, succession, and the next generation of talent. https://youtu.be/m72Hq6bMTo4 Quotable Moments “The best advisors aren't simply managing portfolios. They're the first person clients call when life gets complicated.” “A bad shot in golf is the equivalent of a bad day in the market. You can't let one dictate everything that comes next.” “More often than not, we're not just financial advisors—we're financial therapists.” “Growth gets the headlines. Trust is what makes it possible.” FAQs What is a multi-family office? A multi-family office delivers integrated services beyond investment management, often coordinating tax, estate planning, philanthropy, business planning, and other complex financial matters for affluent families. Why has Certuity grown primarily through referrals? Constantine attributes the firm's growth to deep client relationships, a collaborative service model, and becoming the trusted advisor clients recommend to others. How does golf relate to wealth management? Golf reinforces discipline, emotional control, preparation, and performing under pressure—all qualities Constantine believes are essential for effective advisors. What is Constantine's perspective on private equity in wealth management? While he understands why many firms pursue private equity, he believes every strategic decision should ultimately be measured against what best serves clients. What qualities distinguish exceptional advisors today? According to Constantine, exceptional advisors become trusted coordinators of a client's financial life—bringing together specialists, solving problems, and providing perspective during life's most important moments. A multi-family office delivers integrated services beyond investment management, often coordinating tax, estate planning, philanthropy, business planning, and other complex financial matters for affluent families. Constantine attributes the firm's growth to deep client relationships, a collaborative service model, and becoming the trusted advisor clients recommend to others. Golf reinforces discipline, emotional control, preparation, and performing under pressure—all qualities Constantine believes are essential for effective advisors. While he understands why many firms pursue private equity, he believes every strategic decision should ultimately be measured against what best serves clients. According to Constantine, exceptional advisors become trusted coordinators of a client's financial life—bringing together specialists, solving problems, and providing perspective during life's most important moments. Related Resources Emotional Intelligence: The “Untouchable” Differentiator in an AI World Intentional Growth: How Top Advisors Build Businesses That Last The 10 Characteristics of the Most Successful Teams Constantine HatzivassiliouPartner  Constantine Hatzivassiliou is a Partner at Certuity, a nationally recognized multi-family office serving affluent families, entrepreneurs, executives, foundations, and endowments. He advises clients on the complex financial, tax, estate, and business planning decisions that accompany significant wealth, helping families coordinate all aspects of their financial lives through a comprehensive family office approach. Drawing on more than two decades of experience, Constantine works closely with successful business owners, corporate executives, and multi-generational families to simplify financial complexity and align investment management, tax planning, estate planning, philanthropy, and family governance strategies. As a Certified Exit Planning Advisor (CEPA®), he frequently assists entrepreneurs in preparing for liquidity events, business transitions, and the long-term stewardship of family wealth. His clients often view him as a trusted advisor and strategic sounding board, helping them navigate important financial decisions with the perspective of both a family office professional and a coach. Prior to joining Certuity, Constantine held advisory and banking positions with The Bank of New York Mellon, Bernstein Global Wealth Management, and Pacific Mercantile Bank. Before entering the financial services industry, he was a Golf Professional and member of the PGA of America, experiences that continue to shape his disciplined, competitive, and relationship-focused approach to advising clients. Outside of his professional responsibilities, Constantine is passionate about mentoring young athletes and strengthening the communities in which he lives and works. He serves as a Board Member of Coerfontaine Football Club (CFC), a premier youth soccer organization focused on developing young athletes and helping them pursue collegiate and professional opportunities while fostering leadership, discipline, and character. He also serves as Chair of the Safety and Security Committee for Parkland, where he works alongside community leadership to enhance resident safety, security, and quality of life. In addition, Constantine is a Founding Board Member of The Boardroom, a private membership organization focused on fostering meaningful relationships among business leaders, entrepreneurs, and professionals through networking, education, and philanthropy. Born in Greece, Constantine spent his childhood in Montreal before relocating to South Florida. He attended the University of Florida before earning a Bachelor of Arts in Economics from Florida Atlantic University, where he graduated with honors. He holds the Certified Exit Planning Advisor (CEPA®) designation. A lifelong student of the game, Constantine remains active in golf and is a member of Muirfield Village Golf Club, founded by his longtime  hero and mentor, Jack Nicklaus, as well as Parkland Golf & Country Club. Constantine resides in Parkland, Florida, with his wife, Stephanie, and their two children, Nicholas and Olivia. NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation. Episode Transcript Lessons from the Links: From Golf Pro to $5B Family Office Partner A conversation with Jason Diamond and Constantine Hatzivassiliou, Partner at Certuity. Jason Diamond: Welcome to the latest episode of our podcast series for financial advisors. Today’s episode is Lessons from the Links: From Golf Pro to $5B Family Office Partner. It’s a conversation with Constantine Hatzivassiliou, partner at Certuity. I’m Jason Diamond and this is the Diamond Podcast for Financial Advisors. Mindy Diamond: At Diamond Consultants, we help elite advisors identify the right environment for their businesses to thrive whether that’s at a wirehouse, boutique or independent firm. With nearly three decades of experience, we’ve guided thousands of advisors and represented more than a quarter of a trillion dollars in assets transitioned and, each year, one in four advisors managing $1 billion or more who change firms are our clients. Our process is education-driven and based on building relationships starting as your strategic partner well before you’re even thinking of a move. To schedule a confidential conversation, call us at (908) 879-1002. Wondering why advisors change firms and where they’re headed? Are transition deals going up or down? Those very questions and more inspired us to create our annual advisor transition report, it’s the award-winning data-driven resource designed for advisors that connects the dots between the motivations around movement and the firm’s appetite for top talent. Arm yourself with the knowledge you need to make smart decisions, download your copy at diamond-consultants.com/transitionreport. Jason Diamond: Golf is a way of exposing who you really are, there are no teammates to blame, no clock to run out and no hiding from a bad decision. Every shot demands discipline, patience and the ability to stay focused when the pressure is highest, my guest today knows that firsthand. Before becoming a partner at Certuity, a multifamily office approaching five billion in assets, Constantine Hatzivassiliou was pursuing a career as a professional golfer. An injury ultimately redirected his path towards wealth management but many of the lessons he learned on the course still shaped the way he serves clients today. Certuity has grown from roughly 210 million in assets to nearly five billion, that’s impressive on its own but the more interesting story is how they’ve done it. The firm has grown largely through referrals built around a multifamily office model and focused on becoming far more than an investment advisor to the families it serves. In Constantine’s view, the best advisors aren’t simply managing portfolios, they’re the first person clients call when a business is being sold, a family issue becomes complicated or a major decision carries consequences well beyond the balance sheet. Constantine and I discuss the lessons golf teaches about handling pressure then we dive into the evolution from the traditional wealth management world to the multifamily office model, why referrals drive nearly all of Certuity’s growth, how he thinks about private equity’s influence on the advisory business and what it takes to become the first call for the wealthy families they serve and perhaps, most importantly, why the same qualities that help someone succeed on a golf course may be surprisingly relevant to building trust over a lifetime. It’s a great conversation so let’s dive in. Constantine, thank you so much for joining, thrilled to have you here. Constantine Hatzivassiliou: Thank you for having me, excited to be here. Jason Diamond: Yeah, absolutely. So, you had an unconventional path to wealth management, you started as a professional golfer, I think that’s a first for us on this show, before ultimately transitioning into this world. Can you tell us a little bit about the journey and what brought you here? Constantine Hatzivassiliou: Yeah, I never thought I’d be here, my parents were certainly shocked that I got here path wise. Growing up, immigrants from Greece, you settle into Florida the traditional way where you either go down the diner route or the gas station route in mechanics which my father was the latter and school and education was never priority, it was always about supporting the family needs. So, next thing you know, sports are a critical part of any good household, that’s how I was raised and I played everything but golf. I grew up on a golf course because my parents believed that a location of a property was critical to long-term financial success. We lived on a golf course, it was in our backyard, we’d stare at it and we’d use it to play football or baseball or anything but actual golf. And my freshman year at the University of Florida, I started dating a girl on the golf team and she got me hooked to the point where, after four years of hitting balls with the women’s and men’s golf team at the University of Florida for six hours a day, we finished school and realized I’m actually pretty good at the game and, while I have a finance and economics background and degree, let’s try and pursue this for a living and I was blessed. I had a sponsor who helped me succeed at golf on a small scale, it was a humbling experience to say the least. I was competing and playing with Sean O’Hair, Ken Duke, guys who made it out on tour for a very long time, we had the same sponsor so we functioned as a team, it was a collegiate team effectively trying to make it out on tour. And, unfortunately, my second year of competing, I blew out my back doing heavy deadlifts which set me aside for 18 months. While I was recovering, my primary sponsor was in financial services and says, “Hey, you have a background in this, it’s killing you not being able to be on the golf course, why don’t you come work for me while you’re rehabbing so that, when you get back to playing golf, it’s easier for you to talk about our business as a sponsor to try and develop business to throw it to the financial services side?” And Jason, the reality is, after 18 months working there, I fell in love with it. I made way more money working in that environment than I ever would’ve made playing golf because, again, I came to the game late. I was decent but I was nowhere near the caliber of players that are succeeding now out on tour. So, I pivoted after having met my wife and decided to settle down into the wealth management space and, what is it now, 26 years later, going strong. So, it’s been a fun transition from golf into wealth management to say the least. Jason Diamond: Probably my favorite background … I watch a lot of golf, I should caveat that, probably my favorite origin story we’ve had, I’ll give you the Wanamaker trophy or whatever you get, first place. Let’s talk about the business now, so Certuity. For our audience who may not be familiar, tell us a little bit about the firm, what types of clients do you serve and any context you can provide on size as well. We’ll talk about how your firm got there but just give us where we are today to start with. Constantine Hatzivassiliou: So, goal by the end of the year is to have $5 billion in AUM, we’re just shy of that now. We currently service 428 families across the country. So, we’re boutiquey and nimble, we’re based in South Florida, we have offices in New York, San Fran and LA. I’m fortunate to be one of four partners at the firm supporting the growth and the direction of the company and it’s a fun endeavor in the sense that, when we first started, I was employee number four 16 years ago and, with 210 million in AUM at the time to grow it to where we are today, to learn all the things that we have over the years, the curve balls that were thrown at us because all of us came from massive institutional wealth management firms. So, we transitioned from the Bernsteins of the world, the BNY Mellons of the world into an RIA in the South Florida market, there was absolutely an entrepreneurial learning curve involved. Jason Diamond: I bet. And on follow-up question, 16 years ago, did you have a book of business, client business and do you still maintain a book of business today? Constantine Hatzivassiliou: I do. The four of us at the firm share in all of the clients, we work together. Being in the Southeast, I’m responsible for, let’s call it, the Southeast demographics of the US which is a large portion of Certuity’s book. I have a partner in Tennessee, I have a partner in LA and San Francisco and we divide and conquer across the country. But, yes, we came over with a small book, we’ve all grown it organically since then. So, we’ve been very effective in how we’ve grown. Jason Diamond: Just from adding new client money? Constantine Hatzivassiliou: Strictly through new clients referred to us by existing clients. Jason Diamond: Wow. I want to talk more about the growth because that’s remarkable. But before I do, can we double click on the service model? So, I would say the most typical we hear, I think more of our guests typically come from the wirehouse world where it’s I have my book, you have your book. What does your service model look like? So, is it truly, if it’s working well from the end client perspective, you should be interchangeable with your partners and it’s a true team approach? Constantine Hatzivassiliou: How we engage our clients, the theory should be I can get hit by a bus tomorrow and outside of the client not being able to speak to me directly, they will not have a hiccup in any way, shape or form. And when we’re dealing with families across multiple generations, the way we’ve built our platform, that continuity is critical in the engagement process for the clients hiring us to help them through all of the challenges that they face. Jason Diamond: What’s your sweet spot in terms of client size? Constantine Hatzivassiliou: Our average client size today has just shy of eight million AUM with us. We have some clients who have $1 million certainly but they’re strategic in that their friends, their family, they could be centers of influence who help send business our way because they value what it is that we do and there’s a strategic partnership because we might need them for their trust and estate services or their accounting work and they have clients who have a need and we’re on the short list of people they refer to. Jason Diamond: That they trust. Yeah, makes sense. So, I’ve seen this in the news and also even on your own internal materials, I’ve seen you described as both a modern multifamily office, you’ll also obviously hear the term RIA as well. Does that distinction matter at all? And maybe my second part of that question would be what is the distinction between that space, whatever you call it, and the more traditional firm world from a client service perspective? You mentioned that all of your partners from that world. Constantine Hatzivassiliou: I started in this industry truly at an institutional level at Bernstein in New York and, for anyone who knows Bernstein, they really do brainwash you on the fiduciary model and the values affiliated with that philosophy has translated through my career at BNY Mellon which has a very similar feel as Bernstein. And then, when we came here, we instilled that same core value principle of fiduciary responsibility for our clients so we are very different than a traditional wirehouse or brokerage house, it is why we’ve grown so successfully. I would never, one, work for an institution that did bide by those standards and, secondarily, I wished Congress and Senate would turn around and actually implement a mandatory fiduciary liability for all financial advisors because, far too often, we see prospective clients or families get taken advantage of because the individual sitting across from them giving them financial advice is not necessarily aligned with their goals and objectives. Jason Diamond: So, I take it you are fee only. Constantine Hatzivassiliou: We are fee only. Jason Diamond: Yeah. I don’t want to lose the thread on the first part of my question. Do you think there is a distinction between a multifamily office and an RIA? I don’t want to lead you here but to me it implies a different level or different caliber of service model that probably includes more of the ancillary trust and estate and CPA type stuff that higher network clients need but curious what your thoughts are. Constantine Hatzivassiliou: Our first seven years at the firm, we were strictly an RIA, we functioned as an advisory service provider to our clients. What attracted me and my partners to Certuity was the nimbleness of the firm. So, for instance, at BNY Mellon, we often deemed a change necessary as moving an aircraft carrier across the world but it was an impossible task to accomplish. But when you’re small and nimble and clients come to you with a need and you’re in the service, ultimately, first and foremost, it made sense for us to start building out family office services for our clients because they had a need and we found it as a way to centralize everything because, far too often, when the communication standards break down between all the individual parts, one, it’s more expensive for the clients and, two, the process isn’t efficient, things get missed. So, we tried, largely due to our growth, to bring everything in house and our clients appreciate that for it. Jason Diamond: So, this is not a chicken and egg situation, this is very much we had large clients, we were attracting large clients and, in order to service them optimally, here’s what we felt we needed to build. Is that fair? Constantine Hatzivassiliou: 100%. Jason Diamond: Let’s shift gears, I need to go deeper on the professional golf thread a little bit. I promise I won’t make the whole interview about your golf background. I’m curious if you feel like that experience or that, I don’t know, upbringing or, I guess, background laid any foundation for the way you engage with clients today or the way you operate as a business leader today. Constantine Hatzivassiliou: So, there’s a couple parts to that. The golf side, certainly, just from an engaging client perspective, 90% of our clients are golfers. Jason Diamond: It’s very true. Constantine Hatzivassiliou: Right. It just helps because of our background and certainly with some of the clients and partners that we have at the firm, golf is a critical thread in what we do. However, when it comes to golf, what I learned playing golf at a high level directly translates to how we manage money for clients and I’ll express it this way. There’s generally two types of golfers, there’s the artist, the Sergios of the world who don’t fundamentally function off of specific points in their swing or a very structured platform, they see something, their mind becomes creative and they execute on it. I was never that way, I am a numbers person, I think everything analytically, I break everything down to the minute, everything is strategized and organized, I was taught to practice that way by Coach Alexander at the University of Florida and that foundational element seemed easy, it worked. If you practice properly, you’ve succeeded. Under pressure, all those hours and hours of repetition translated to success more often than not. In our industry, it’s process-driven, it has to be unemotional. A bad shot in golf is the equivalent of a bad day in the market, you can’t let one bad day in the market influence everything you do for the next year. Same way on the golf course playing in a tournament, you can’t allow one golf shot to affect the rest of the round. We kid with our clients oftentimes that, while we are fundamentally their financial advisor, more often than not, we’re their financial therapist. We have to control their emotions and make sure they’re not making an irrational decision. For instance, a couple days ago we were out with a client the day that Iran shot down one of the US military helicopters and we’re sitting down at lunch and, all of a sudden, his phone starts blowing up because he’s getting all these Google alerts to the market heading in the wrong direction and he had to go do a life insurance test later on that afternoon. So, all week, he had prepped and he was calm and he was relaxed, he was really excited, he’s, “My wife is setting me up with a new insurance policy and I know it’s for her benefit but all my numbers look good, I’m going to ace this and my premiums will be really low because of it,” it was a $25 million policy. And as he’s looking at his phone and he sees the market collapsing in his mind, his blood pressure rose to no end, you could see that his anxiety level went through the roof and, had I not been there with him at the time to hold his hand through that process, his afternoon would’ve been shot. I would’ve got a phone call saying, “What are we doing to prevent 2% loss in my portfolio,” because that’s how he thinks and, in that moment, I was the therapist to talk him off a ledge. It’s so hard for individuals to manage the stress of the markets, that golfer mentality of, okay, just breathe, relax, let’s see what’s going on, let’s make an educated, confirmed decision, let’s circle back with our caddy if we’re on tour and competing and make a unified decision for the long-term success of the goal that we’re trying to achieve. And what we do every day is the same thing with our clients. Jason Diamond: It’s an incredibly thoughtful answer, I expected a version of the latter part of your answer. I appreciate that you added the part about just most clients like golf, enjoy talking about golf, enjoy playing golf and it’s an effective business development tool, there’s no question. Constantine Hatzivassiliou: So, I have two kids, a 12-year-old and an eight-year-old, my son who’s 12 who’s an exceptional soccer player and wants to, aspires to play professionally one day has now fallen in love with golf which I’m ecstatic about. I think golf and tennis, from a business development perspective- Jason Diamond: Yeah, lifelong sports. Constantine Hatzivassiliou: And I look at it now and my mentor when I started in the business was absolutely right. The fact that I could get a CEO of a Fortune 100 company to want to actively spend four hours with me where we could dive into the weeds about their personal life, their financial situation, their business, you could never get that time otherwise. I urge everyone who’s coming out of college or is going into college who wants to aspire to be in any type of sales related role, golf is a great venue to make long-term relationships. Jason Diamond: And importantly, tennis is not as good on the knees long-term or the back long-term. So, you stick to golf, you get a little more longevity out of it. Constantine Hatzivassiliou: It does help, yes. You’re right. Jason Diamond: My thought always goes to people call it the 15th club in golf, just this mental element of the game and to me it’s the clear moment in golf that always comes to mind for me is the 72nd hole. I don’t know if you just watched the US Women’s Open but Nelly Korda standing over a two-foot putt that I really thought she missed, is there an equivalent of that moment? Are you ever able to recreate that pressure in your current role or is that something that you miss? Constantine Hatzivassiliou: Jason, we have those moments weekly, countless stories. Here’s where I love my job. I’ve transitioned from being the guy behind the screen who is just trading accounts, that’s where we all start and you have to have that foundational perspective of what’s involved in trading an account on a daily basis. Not that we ever picked stocks to an extensive level, we were generally managing ETFs, mutual funds and strategies but I’ll give you an example. So, just last week, we had a family and this is where the family office side comes in more so than the financial advisory services come in. We had spent four months in helping a family sell their business, it was a life altering moment, the dad started the business, the dad had been independently successful, net worth of well into eight figures, was happy and content, brought his son into the business, son was brilliant, saw an opportunity within the business and grew the business by 4,000%. Jason Diamond: Literally? Constantine Hatzivassiliou: Yup. All because of this, the son saw a different direction and pivoted the business and grew it out and here he is, getting ready to have their first child and he gets approached by a firm to acquire his business. They’re ecstatic, the number was perfect, I thought it was overvalued, I was telling them that there’s no way they could turn it down because the number was too significant. Had they gone to the market, they would probably never achieve that level of return. And literally, the day of closing, as we’re expecting the wire to come through, the deal gets pulled. So, here you have the father who’s crushed because he was trying to provide something for his son, the son who’s just devastated because he now was preparing for the second stage of his life and you go through at that stage the classic stages of grief, it’s the cycle that goes through it. I was holding their hand through the three-month process up to there, every day, hourly calls, strategizing, building everything out, organizing the accounting team, organizing the attorneys, getting it all to work out. And here I am, father and son, unbelievably stressed, you have the wives in the background who can’t quite comprehend what’s going on, you have employees beneath them who are now confused as to there was a transition getting ready to take place and the only person who can step in under that critical moment to bring everybody back together was me. So, here I am thinking, 20 years ago, I’ll just pick stocks and bonds for individuals but now I’m in the middle of deal flow trying to help a family solve the issues that arise. So, those are hugely critical- Jason Diamond: Yeah, that’s right. Constantine Hatzivassiliou: …moments where, because our clients are our friends and family, we care for them like they’re our own, you become emotionally attached. And the same pressure that I felt when I won my first mini tour event after college, when I had to get up and down from the impossible bunker shot and I hit it to six feet and I made the crucial put to win my first $23,000 check which I thought was unbelievable, they gave you those big old-fashioned- Jason Diamond: The Happy Gilmore checks. Constantine Hatzivassiliou: Exactly, right? It was the greatest day at that time. The stress of being in that bunker trying to hit that shot is the same stress I felt having two phones ringing, one the father, one the son where we have to keep that situation separate. So, you’re diving into unbelievably stressful situations and the best part is, when we get it all solved and literally yesterday we solved the entire dynamic of the business, I get a text from the son saying that this was the most incredible rollercoaster experience he’s ever experienced, that he’s incredibly grateful for all that I did and our team did for him and that, for the rest of his life, we will always be the first person he calls to solve any of his problems. So, for us, that’s the recreation of that stressful moment and then the victory on the back end. Twenty-five years ago, I got the big Happy Gilmore check. Yesterday, I got that text which I’ve printed out and framed and have it in my office as a constant memory of why it is we do what we do. Jason Diamond: And I would bet that’s more impactful than the $23,000. It’s an incredible story and I’ll tell you why, you said it but it’s as far away from stocks and bonds as you could possibly get. But I think, most advisors, a story like that resonates much more. It leads into my next question. You intentionally choose to service a high net worth segment of the market and I would assume that number’s probably creeping up, not down over time in terms of who you service. My thought is that’s a very competitive segment of the market as well. Is this how you differentiate is just you make it about those types of human examples or is there more to it? Constantine Hatzivassiliou: I’m envious of the advisor who could walk into a room of 200 people and they become the central focal point of the room where they can walk up to every single person and fearlessly ask them incredibly personal information, I’m not wired that way. For me, I’m very much the individual that I will find the one person that I have common ground with, I will deepen that relationship and I will add value and, because of the value that I create, I become a critical component of that individual’s success. And that’s how we’ve grown our business holistically at the firm largely buy that extra layer of service. We’re a commodity business. Being in South Florida, the clubs that I belong to, 10 to 15% of the members feel like they’re financial advisors. You could throw a rock anywhere and find a financial advisor so how do I differentiate myself? The only way I can truly differentiate myself and my firm is the level of service we provide, to go that extra step. To where, when we’re calling a client, they know I’m calling them to support their needs not because I’m seeking something for any ulterior motive. Jason Diamond: But you don’t mention financial planning or investment management or asset custody. Is that because I assume just that’s table stakes? Of course we do that but … Okay, yeah. Makes sense. Constantine Hatzivassiliou: That’s the easy part, right? That’s foundationally … And to your earlier point, you were asking the RIA model. One of the biggest challenges that we had down here in South Florida was the RIA model is new. If you were in the northeast, RIAs are very common, out west, incredibly common. Down here in South Florida, I just finished dealing with Bernie Madoff. Jason Diamond: You were fighting the good education fight a little bit. Constantine Hatzivassiliou: At Bernstein, 108 of our clients had assets with Bernie Madoff. Jason Diamond: Yeah. Constantine Hatzivassiliou: So, when you leave, one of our biggest growing curves as an RIA in South Florida was, when you leave the power of BNY Mellon or Bernstein and you’re some random little shop called Certuity, no one knows who you are. So, there was a big part of our education in the business was learning how to educate clients and prospective clients on the value of the RIA model and the fiduciary model in particular. Jason Diamond: Could you give me the 30-second answer to that if somebody says who are you, your prospect? I’ll tell you why I ask. Forget just Bernstein’s and BNYs of the world, a Morgan Stanley advisor or Merrill advisor has the exact same fear. I’m leaving Merrill to go launch Jason Diamond Wealth Management, my client’s going to say, “Well, who is that?” So, give me the quick pitch. Constantine Hatzivassiliou: Your typical broker, let’s say, you’re not really hiring JP Morgan, you’re not really hiring Wells Fargo, you’re not hiring Goldman Sachs, you’re hiring the advisor who works for that institution. Now, yes, that advisor has the Rolodex of data and information available at the firm level but, ultimately, you’re entrusting that individual to make your decisions for you. The broker who leaves the brokerage model to open up their own brick and mortar operation has to then decide are they continuing down the wirehouse brokerage model where they’re transactional in nature, the economics behind that, far more profitable. The revenue streams affiliated with a brokerage house drastically blows us out of the water. But then you have to also look at yourself in the mirror so how are you running your book of business, how are you running your practice. So, to answer your 30-second question, the RIA model, in my opinion, is truly the only way any family of wealth should proceed with an advisory firm because you want an individual who is aligned in your goals and objectives. Our clients know that I’m their chief financial officer, I work for them. They task us with building out a financial strategy that is customized to their individual needs and they never have to worry do I have an ulterior motive as to why I’m presenting an option in that strategy. And, because of that, the fiduciary model, I think, is critical for our success as a firm and, again, as I mentioned earlier, I wish it’s something that was industry well and not the vast minority. Jason Diamond: Yeah. No, that’s a great answer. So, do you think then that, as time has gone on, this has gotten easier? I assume the answer is yes either because more clients are aware of your brand and/or more aware of the space as a whole. Constantine Hatzivassiliou: The first thing that helped the most was some gray hair. When I started at Bernstein, I attempted to solicit new clients very much the same way I do today. But when I was 26 years old and I’m sitting in front of a family worth and the dad was in the 70s and he lived his life and I’m younger than his kids, he would look at me and say, “What do you really know? What experience do you have?” So, doing this now for as long as I have, the number one thing that has helped me the most in growth is just wisdom and time. Without that, yes, you can be a rockstar stock picker. We have so many kids coming out of college today with the advent of AI and technology that have algorithms that could run unbelievable portfolios and there is a segment of the market who wants to hire and engage those individuals but, generally speaking, the families that we service, that is 10th or 12th on the list of importance. Jason Diamond: No, I think that’s spot on. I think most high net worth clients counterintuitively agree with that, that alpha, for lack of a better term, is really not the name of the game or not in the top five reasons why you would engage with a financial advisor. Constantine Hatzivassiliou: Agreed. The biggest thing that we’ve been doing to educate clients especially in today’s environment, I had a call yesterday with an individual, a client who lives in New Jersey who works out of New York for a hedge fund, he knows our space incredibly well. He’s one of those kids, 28 years old, brilliant, as smart as you’ll ever be but his tax bracket is atrocious. He is paying so much of his W-2 income in taxes and building out a strategy that can reduce his tax liability by several hundred thousand dollars a year far exceeds any alpha I can generate by picking a top decile performer. Jason Diamond: What was the strategy? Move to Florida? I’m just kidding. Don’t answer that. Constantine Hatzivassiliou: We offered that but, unfortunately, he has to be physically in the office in New York City but yes. Jason Diamond: I think that will resonate, by the way, your gray hair comment. I appreciate the humility and the modesty in that because, the reality is, one of the questions I was going to ask you about was next-gen talent cultivation. In my opinion, this is a hard game for younger folks for that reason. People sit across from other people with a lot of money and they say, “Why am I going to entrust you with my life’s work when you just don’t have that degree of experience?” I was asking more even about your firm success and your firm story, have you felt like that’s caught on more? Do you have more brand awareness, if you will, now when you go to a prospect meeting or do you think you’re still constantly fighting that education fight? Constantine Hatzivassiliou: So, first part, brands, it’s improved in our immediate network. In our little bubble of the world, yes, it’s known. Let’s call it, in South Florida the influential attorneys, the accountants, the divorce attorneys know who we are because, having been down here long enough, we’ve had opportunities to work together. Our network of friends, certainly, the word spreads. But in the grand scheme of things, we are so small in the South Florida landscape or the LA landscape or the New York landscape so any incremental gain that we pick up is meaningful. And then, as it relates to young talent, our success is completely, long-term, derived by the young talent that we bring in to nurture them to help them grow. I look at our success, two of our critical mentors and board members of our firm are in their 80s, their children and grandchildren, nepotism aside, whether it was interning while in college or coming to work for us after school, they’re our best employees. And our goal as a firm, just like how I was offered the opportunity to become a partner and own a piece of the business, our goal long term will be to transition the business to this younger generation that we’re developing. I look at, again, those two board members who are in their 80s, the advice they’ve given me is don’t ever stop working, you have to be doing something. And I turn to them and say, “I don’t work every day.” I put in 20 hour days, well, not quite 20, 18 hour days but it’s never work because, what I do every day, I don’t deem it work, I love what I do, I don’t ever see myself stopping. Because they’ll tell me all of their friends that have stopped working or sold their business, invariably, the men die within six months because boredom and we always joke around that you’ll continue to work forever. So, I would hope that one day I transition into that advisory board member role where I step aside day-to-day activity where I’m now a mentor to our younger generation that we’re promoting into partners because we’ve made promises to our clients that we will forever be their family office. So, we have to, as part of our growth model, have those transitions in place because we’re servicing many families that have 85-year-old clients and two-year-old clients and we’re tasked with the two-year-olds as well as the 85-year-old. Jason Diamond: I also feel like there’s a little bit of younger generations I think have been reluctant to some degree to get it, you can disagree with this, to get into this space because there’s a more appeal to things like investment banking and sales and trading to some degree. The other problem obviously you alluded to is asset gathering. Your model speaks so clearly to success because you don’t say I own the client, that’s my relationship. To me, you plant the seeds of being able to handle succession much better than somebody who does the mine is mine and yours is yours approach. Is that fair? Constantine Hatzivassiliou: That’s completely accurate. And I think there’s two types of people that serve in the financial advisory space. You have the individual who is analytics driven, who likes being behind the bank of monitors trading account and there’s a critical part of our firm and our success is driven by the team in the office that aren’t necessarily client facing that do all the heavy lifting every day because they’re really doing the heavy work. Myself, my partners, the select few, while talented and able to do that, realize the value that we present is quarterbacking the relationship and helping understand all the components. We kid around that we’ve all stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night, we’ve become experts in tax, we’ve become experts at trust and estate planning, we’ve become experts at divorce, we’ve become experts at the medical field. It’s shocking how it’s 2:00 in the morning and you get a phone call, panic attack by a client saying they need a doctor for X, Y and Z, can you connect me. So, the younger generation, yes, the sexy space is investment banking and that is really hard work. I could not do what my friends at Goldman do who are at these private mid-market funds, that’s just not me. I’ve been fortunate that I stumbled into an avenue in financial services that I think perfectly fits my personality and my want and desire to help others because that’s what we’re driven by and we try and hire people with that same mindset. The hardest thing as an RIA especially in South Florida is finding and retaining talent that is like-minded and that could function well within our family. Jason Diamond: If you build a firm predicated on culture and client service, I understand, certainly, the importance of that. I want to shift gears, I don’t want to lose this thought. You mentioned organic growth, it’s incredible. You have not mentioned inorganic growth at all and maybe because you haven’t had to but give me your thoughts on M&A, private equity in this space, do you have plans to sell the business, take on a capital partner, buy other RIAs? Constantine Hatzivassiliou: Yeah. So, I understand why private equity in the last 10 years has come into the market. For years, they bought up insurance practices, that recurring revenue, sticky assets, it makes sense. Personally, I’m not a fan of them being in our markets, I think they’re motivated at the end of the day by AUM growth, revenue growth and the second transaction which, for most of our clients, would not make sense because, again, that then questions why it is that we’re motivated to do something. Am I taking extra risk in the portfolio because I want to grow the AUM because I’m looking to sell in a year? Am I bringing in a strategy that has a higher fee? For us, it doesn’t work. In the brokerage model, it makes perfect sense. Now, there are some RIAs who leave the wirehouses, open up an RIA shop, do really well for their clients but don’t have the long-term aspirations of making the institution a legacy to where they’re passing it off. I hope my kids one day want to come work for dad and follow in his steps, that’d be amazing. Just like our younger generation working at the firm, our goal is we’ve already targeted the three or four guys that will be partner one day and we’ll transition the business over to them. But it’s okay if there’s an RIA out there who doesn’t have that transition product or isn’t motivated by that and is looking at it as a vehicle that I’ve built a really good successful book of business and I want to now retire and spend time with my family and kids and travel, et cetera, and that’s where PE steps in and offers an attractive number and the person makes their move. So, I can’t fault the individual for wanting that and I’m not saying that they’re not doing well by their clients, it’s just, for us, I’m not a fan of it because, again, I’m first critically and always focused on what’s best for the client. Jason Diamond: Fair. And I largely agree with some of what you said around private equity in this space but private equity enables … Obviously, it’s capital so which enables acquisitions which is why a lot of firms take on private equity. So, what about the idea of potentially buying businesses to start up inorganic growth? Constantine Hatzivassiliou: We have gone down the road of acquiring other institutions potentially. The challenge is, because we manage money so uniquely and our approach is so different, I’m not going to bring on an institution or bring in a new partner to the firm or a new book of business that we’ve acquired if the methodology and the life of that book doesn’t mirror ours. So, yes, there is opportunities to grow through acquisition, it’s not something that we are leaning on heavily. However, for the right institution that’s available that is aligned with our thinking, whose clients would value and appreciate how we do things or, if that institution is doing something truly unique that we would want to bolt onto our platform, all day long because, again, for the benefit of the client, it makes sense. So, yes, there are opportunities for that. Too often we find that, when a book is available for acquisition, the highest bidder tends to win out and we don’t have the deep enough pockets to write a multiple that we don’t deem to be, let’s call it, market neutral. Jason Diamond: Yeah, market prudent. I understand the premise and I think that’s fair. I also think you have the luxury, because of your organic growth, you can be super, super picky about inorganic and I love how you bring it all back to the lens of the client. Can this improve the client experience in some way? And, if so, yes, we’ll take a look. I got time for one more question, I can’t believe time has flown. You’ve had a remarkable journey, professional golf now partner at a $4 billion plus on the way to $5 billion RIA multifamily office. What are you most proud of when you reflect on your career journey? Constantine Hatzivassiliou: What am I most proud of? To see what Rich, myself and Mark and Jayson built over these years from where we were sitting in a small conference room, struggling to figure out how do we find a way to hire a trust and estate attorney to help with that component, which CPAs do we bring on board in-house because clients have a need. So, the entrepreneurial spirit involved in growing the business, the late nights, the struggles, the banter back and forth, to put so much blood, sweat and tears into this and now to look at all that we’ve accomplished, being in four separate states with offices, having so many wonderful employees that have come to us from all over the world, Germany, from China, from Tokyo, bringing people in to the US and building out something that, when we leave at the end of the day, are incredibly proud of. My father’s no longer with us, for 50 years, I always strived to make him proud because he never told me that he was proud of me, he was the classic Greek old-fashioned dad. I think he looks down on his now for everything that we’ve built and would say that he’s proud of us so, for me, that’s the best. Jason Diamond: Yeah. That’s an incredible place to end. Thank you for sharing that, it’s a touching place to end and I appreciate you being open. Thank you. This has been one of my favorite episodes, your journey, your humility, your honesty, your transparency, it’s no wonder you’ve built a business you’ve built. So, thanks for joining us, Constantine. I look forward to having you back on to talk about the next chapter. Constantine Hatzivassiliou: Thank you. Next time we’ll do it from the golf course. Jason Diamond: Oh, absolutely. Mindy Diamond: As a financial advisor, you hold yourself to the highest standards of integrity, honesty and credibility. You are successful because you take your professional responsibility seriously and are dedicated to your clients. But are you living your best business life? Are your goals aligned with your firms or could a better option exist? Should I Stay or Should I Go? Is a book written with you in mind? It’s a self-guided journey that walks you through the key steps that we take with our advisor clients. This strategic thought process and roadmap to professional self-discovery is designed to help you ask the right questions and think critically and objectively whether you’re considering change or not. Learn how to get your copy at diamond-consultants.com/thebook.   Lessons from the Links: From Golf Pro to $5B Family Office Partner A conversation with Jason Diamond and Constantine Hatzivassiliou, Partner at Certuity. Jason Diamond: Welcome to the latest episode of our podcast series for financial advisors. Today’s episode is Lessons from the Links: From Golf Pro to $5B Family Office Partner. It’s a conversation with Constantine Hatzivassiliou, partner at Certuity. I’m Jason Diamond and this is the Diamond Podcast for Financial Advisors. Mindy Diamond: At Diamond Consultants, we help elite advisors identify the right environment for their businesses to thrive whether that’s at a wirehouse, boutique or independent firm. With nearly three decades of experience, we’ve guided thousands of advisors and represented more than a quarter of a trillion dollars in assets transitioned and, each year, one in four advisors managing $1 billion or more who change firms are our clients. Our process is education-driven and based on building relationships starting as your strategic partner well before you’re even thinking of a move. To schedule a confidential conversation, call us at (908) 879-1002. Wondering why advisors change firms and where they’re headed? Are transition deals going up or down? Those very questions and more inspired us to create our annual advisor transition report, it’s the award-winning data-driven resource designed for advisors that connects the dots between the motivations around movement and the firm’s appetite for top talent. Arm yourself with the knowledge you need to make smart decisions, download your copy at diamond-consultants.com/transitionreport. Jason Diamond: Golf is a way of exposing who you really are, there are no teammates to blame, no clock to run out and no hiding from a bad decision. Every shot demands discipline, patience and the ability to stay focused when the pressure is highest, my guest today knows that firsthand. Before becoming a partner at Certuity, a multifamily office approaching five billion in assets, Constantine Hatzivassiliou was pursuing a career as a professional golfer. An injury ultimately redirected his path towards wealth management but many of the lessons he learned on the course still shaped the way he serves clients today. Certuity has grown from roughly 210 million in assets to nearly five billion, that’s impressive on its own but the more interesting story is how they’ve done it. The firm has grown largely through referrals built around a multifamily office model and focused on becoming far more than an investment advisor to the families it serves. In Constantine’s view, the best advisors aren’t simply managing portfolios, they’re the first person clients call when a business is being sold, a family issue becomes complicated or a major decision carries consequences well beyond the balance sheet. Constantine and I discuss the lessons golf teaches about handling pressure then we dive into the evolution from the traditional wealth management world to the multifamily office model, why referrals drive nearly all of Certuity’s growth, how he thinks about private equity’s influence on the advisory business and what it takes to become the first call for the wealthy families they serve and perhaps, most importantly, why the same qualities that help someone succeed on a golf course may be surprisingly relevant to building trust over a lifetime. It’s a great conversation so let’s dive in. Constantine, thank you so much for joining, thrilled to have you here. Constantine Hatzivassiliou: Thank you for having me, excited to be here. Jason Diamond: Yeah, absolutely. So, you had an unconventional path to wealth management, you started as a professional golfer, I think that’s a first for us on this show, before ultimately transitioning into this world. Can you tell us a little bit about the journey and what brought you here? Constantine Hatzivassiliou: Yeah, I never thought I’d be here, my parents were certainly shocked that I got here path wise. Growing up, immigrants from Greece, you settle into Florida the traditional way where you either go down the diner route or the gas station route in mechanics which my father was the latter and school and education was never priority, it was always about supporting the family needs. So, next thing you know, sports are a critical part of any good household, that’s how I was raised and I played everything but golf. I grew up on a golf course because my parents believed that a location of a property was critical to long-term financial success. We lived on a golf course, it was in our backyard, we’d stare at it and we’d use it to play football or baseball or anything but actual golf. And my freshman year at the University of Florida, I started dating a girl on the golf team and she got me hooked to the point where, after four years of hitting balls with the women’s and men’s golf team at the University of Florida for six hours a day, we finished school and realized I’m actually pretty good at the game and, while I have a finance and economics background and degree, let’s try and pursue this for a living and I was blessed. I had a sponsor who helped me succeed at golf on a small scale, it was a humbling experience to say the least. I was competing and playing with Sean O’Hair, Ken Duke, guys who made it out on tour for a very long time, we had the same sponsor so we functioned as a team, it was a collegiate team effectively trying to make it out on tour. And, unfortunately, my second year of competing, I blew out my back doing heavy deadlifts which set me aside for 18 months. While I was recovering, my primary sponsor was in financial services and says, “Hey, you have a background in this, it’s killing you not being able to be on the golf course, why don’t you come work for me while you’re rehabbing so that, when you get back to playing golf, it’s easier for you to talk about our business as a sponsor to try and develop business to throw it to the financial services side?” And Jason, the reality is, after 18 months working there, I fell in love with it. I made way more money working in that environment than I ever would’ve made playing golf because, again, I came to the game late. I was decent but I was nowhere near the caliber of players that are succeeding now out on tour. So, I pivoted after having met my wife and decided to settle down into the wealth management space and, what is it now, 26 years later, going strong. So, it’s been a fun transition from golf into wealth management to say the least. Jason Diamond: Probably my favorite background … I watch a lot of golf, I should caveat that, probably my favorite origin story we’ve had, I’ll give you the Wanamaker trophy or whatever you get, first place. Let’s talk about the business now, so Certuity. For our audience who may not be familiar, tell us a little bit about the firm, what types of clients do you serve and any context you can provide on size as well. We’ll talk about how your firm got there but just give us where we are today to start with. Constantine Hatzivassiliou: So, goal by the end of the year is to have $5 billion in AUM, we’re just shy of that now. We currently service 428 families across the country. So, we’re boutiquey and nimble, we’re based in South Florida, we have offices in New York, San Fran and LA. I’m fortunate to be one of four partners at the firm supporting the growth and the direction of the company and it’s a fun endeavor in the sense that, when we first started, I was employee number four 16 years ago and, with 210 million in AUM at the time to grow it to where we are today, to learn all the things that we have over the years, the curve balls that were thrown at us because all of us came from massive institutional wealth management firms. So, we transitioned from the Bernsteins of the world, the BNY Mellons of the world into an RIA in the South Florida market, there was absolutely an entrepreneurial learning curve involved. Jason Diamond: I bet. And on follow-up question, 16 years ago, did you have a book of business, client business and do you still maintain a book of business today? Constantine Hatzivassiliou: I do. The four of us at the firm share in all of the clients, we work together. Being in the Southeast, I’m responsible for, let’s call it, the Southeast demographics of the US which is a large portion of Certuity’s book. I have a partner in Tennessee, I have a partner in LA and San Francisco and we divide and conquer across the country. But, yes, we came over with a small book, we’ve all grown it organically since then. So, we’ve been very effective in how we’ve grown. Jason Diamond: Just from adding new client money? Constantine Hatzivassiliou: Strictly through new clients referred to us by existing clients. Jason Diamond: Wow. I

Papers is back. Jordan Walker's coming out party is taking the heat of Jackson faking his illness. Playing the villain. People seemed to enjoy the new format. Audio of the call of the Derby winning home run. Barry Bonds talking about Jordan Walker's performance. 31 HRs in 53 swings.Summer '98. Audio of Kyle Schwarber after the derby tipping his cap to Jordan Walker. Jordan Walker talking about 40,000 people booing him at 'The Bank.' Audio of Walker and his family on the Netflix set after the derby.It's Taboo's birthday. The Silent One. Jayson Stark comparing Walker to Chris Carpenter. Audio of a Philly influencer concerned for Jordan Walker's safety. The script was perfect last night. Audio of Buster Olney and Doug Glanville saying this was the best derby they've seen in a while. Chuck in Soulard wants to talk it over. Doug doesn't like Philly fans because they booed Santa. Sassie Cassie.Martin thought about bringing Jackson some soup but he didn't. Martin's never wrong. John Rice (Troublemaker from Cape Giraredeau) is on phone lines. Troublemaker says Martin's a 'cool dude.' Makes the trip up from the Cape for Cardinal games about 20-25 times a year. Larry Nickel is up next. Larry watched both Raw and The Derby last night. You don't boo nobodies.Tim's theme song. Someone wants a text audit from like 5 years ago. Comps to Dave Winfield. Never would have seen that moment from last night coming. Sounds like Tim's younger son is going to be a snootful. Jordan Walker jersey sales. France and Spain today.You can get into the ASG tonight for just a little over $1.3K. Chairman is fighting with Chicken Tater in the YouTube chat. Big Al calls in to defend us against Chicken Tater.Listen to these vocals. The new Will Ferrell show. Angry and agro. Lots of Jordan Walker and home run derby discussion.Look, Doug. Terry Crouppen is back in studio. Talking travels with Terry. St. Louis is gray and needs painted bright colors. Andy stays walking his dog. Didn't there used to be a wall there? The stink of failure. Safaris.Jackson's playing hurt today. We've got Jose Fermin on the phone lines who was in Philly last night for the HR Derby. His cousin who works for the Phillies hooked him up with tickets. Last night had the intensity of a playoff game. He was the only Cardinal fans in his section. The Philly fans. Walker performing under pressure in front of the raucous Philly crowd. He likes the nickname "Ferminator." Could he pitch or catch? He'll be at the game tonight as well.People are jumping off ship and heading to Joy 99 FM. Papers Flu Game. EMOTD.How long does Doug have to listen to this? Jackson is just grinding. Home remedies from Nonna. Meek and feeble. Don't bring that back handed nonsense. Don't straw man me, ho. Replaying the audio of Barry Bonds talking about it being the greatest HR Derby he's ever seen.And the winner of the EMOTD is...See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

(00:00-25:14) Martin thought about bringing Jackson some soup but he didn't. Martin's never wrong. John Rice (Troublemaker from Cape Giraredeau) is on phone lines. Troublemaker says Martin's a 'cool dude.' Makes the trip up from the Cape for Cardinal games about 20-25 times a year. Larry Nickel is up next. Larry watched both Raw and The Derby last night. You don't boo nobodies.(25:22-39:16) Tim's theme song. Someone wants a text audit from like 5 years ago. Comps to Dave Winfield. Never would have seen that moment from last night coming. Sounds like Tim's younger son is going to be a snootful. Jordan Walker jersey sales. France and Spain today.(39:26-51:21) You can get into the ASG tonight for just a little over $1.3K. Chairman is fighting with Chicken Tater in the YouTube chat. Big Al calls in to defend us against Chicken Tater.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

We dive into the nightmare of credit card fraud and how Zach's identity got stolen for Uber rides and Texas Roadhouse gift cards. We also tackle the massive price hikes hitting the tech and gaming world thanks to AI data centers buying up all the hardware, the reality of the Dead Internet Theory, and GTA 6's insane presales. Plus, we finally address the logistical mysteries of the men's room and why some guys prefer to sit. Pull up a chair and join the conversation.Thank you for being part of this crowd!00:00 - Start!00:39 - Welcome to the Crowd01:23 - Naming Kids After Where They Were Conceived04:16 - Lie Detectors & Thumbtacks06:14 - Exciting Lives, Cancer Jokes & Eulogies09:51 - The Legend of "Soft Zach"11:07 - We Got Hacked (Credit Card Fraud)17:46 - The Truth About Men's Bathrooms20:47 - Nostalgic Comedy Music24:21 - Why Happy Feet is Terrible29:43 - Space IPOs32:56 - Student Drivers & Hand-Crank Windows37:51 - Putting Unleaded Gas in a Diesel48:25 - GTA 6 Makes $9 Billion in 24 Hours59:38 - The AI Music Crisis & Beyond Disdain1:07:57 - The Dead Internet Theory1:12:20 - Insane Tech & Console Price Hikes1:24:53 - The Controversial Box Elder Data Center1:29:31 - Microchip Breakthroughs That Break Your Brain1:35:38 - OutroReddit- Our Subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/FivesACrowd- Our Account: https://www.reddit.com/user/FivesACrowdPodcastFollow Our Personal AccountsAustin - https://allmylinks.com/austinspomerCam - https://www.instagram.com/effinburch/Chris - https://www.instagram.com/thechrishummel/Tony - https://www.instagram.com/theonlytonyc/Zach - https://www.instagram.com/zvanbeekum/P.O. Box**Please no packages, letters only**Five's A Crowd Podcast1123 N Fairfield Rd #1373 Layton, UT 84041

It's Thursday, July 9th, A.D. 2026. This is The Worldview in 5 Minutes heard on 140 radio stations and at www.TheWorldview.com. I'm Adam McManus. (Adam@TheWorldview.com) By Jonathan Clark and Adam McManus 2026 Global Persecution of Christian Index released International Christian Concern released its 2026 Global Persecution Index. The report highlights 20 countries where Christians face persecution. These countries include China, Cuba, India, Iran, and Nigeria. The report also put a spotlight on leaders of countries where persecution is worsening. These leaders include Nigerian President Bola Ahmed Tinubu, Nicaraguan President Daniel Ortega, Syrian President Ahmed al-Sharaa, and Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi. The report noted, “Despite mounting repression, Christianity continues to grow in unexpected places.” Examples of this include the Iranian house church movement and China's underground churches. Hebrews 13:3 says, “Continue to remember those in prison as if you were together with them in prison, and those who are mistreated as if you yourselves were suffering.” Christian British nurse, who affirmed biological accuracy, left alone The United Kingdom's Nursing and Midwifery Council dropped its case against a Christian nurse last week. Jennifer Melle worked at a hospital in London. In 2024, she used biologically-accurate pronouns with a patient who was pretending to be the opposite sex. She then faced suspension and an investigation. Thankfully, the nursing regulatory body has ended its case against her.  Melle commented, “Regulators should protect patients from real harm, not punish nurses for holding Christian beliefs, speaking truthfully about biological sex, or raising serious concerns in the public interest.” Trump: Ceasefire with Iran is over after Iran attacked ships in Strait The United States carried out retaliatory strikes on Iran yesterday. The strikes came hours after Iran attacked commercial vessels in the Strait of Hormuz. The Trump administration also restored sanctions on Iran's oil sales. U.S. President Donald Trump told reporters he considers the ceasefire with Iran to be over.  Listen. TRUMP: “They're vicious, violent people. If they had a nuclear weapon, they'd use it. As far as I'm concerned, it's over. I'll speak to our negotiators. They want to negotiate. They're good people: Steve Witkoff, Jared Kushner. But they have to come back to me. As far as I'm concerned, it's just a waste of time dealing with them.” Ban on Planned Parenthood funding expired last week The federal government's ban on Medicaid funding for Planned Parenthood expired last week. Congress passed legislation last year that cut the funding for just one year. As a result, dozens of Planned Parenthood locations have closed since then. However, the abortion giant can now resume its reimbursement from Medicaid. Some Republican lawmakers are calling for another bill to defund Planned Parenthood.  Call your Congressman at 202-225-3121 and ask him or her to vote to continue to defund the abortion giant Planned Parenthood. If you don't know who it is, click here and type in your zipcode. Young Men's Christian Assoc. allows men in women's locker rooms Parents are calling on the Young Men's Christian Association to change its transgender policies. The publicly-funded organization allows men, pretending to be women, in women's bathrooms and locker rooms.  The American Parents Coalition says this violates a recent U.S. Supreme Court ruling. The decision affirmed that Title IX protections in federal law are based on biological sex. The coalition stated, “The YMCA has ignored parents' concerns for far too long while maintaining policies that undermine the privacy, safety, and fairness Title IX was enacted to protect.” Plus, it violates the group's stated vision which was to put Christian values into practice by developing a healthy body, mind, and spirit. Send a polite, 2-sentence letter of objection to the president of the Young Men's Christian Association and ask them to live up to their name and their Biblical founding by opposing this transgender insanity. Suzanne McCormick, President, Young Men's Christian Association, 101 North Wacker Drive, Chicago, Illinois 60606. (Write to your local YMCA and object as well). Trump's tariffs led to Toyota announcing $3.6 billion U.S. expansion Toyota is expanding its manufacturing in the United States. On Monday, the Japanese car maker announced a $3.6 billion expansion in San Antonio, Texas. This will move some of its production from Mexico to the U.S. It will also bring about 2,000 new jobs to the Lone Star State. This expansion comes after the Trump administration imposed tariffs on imported vehicles and auto parts.  Presbyterian Church U.S.A. defends transgender surgeries for kids The largest Presbyterian denomination in the United States supported transgender surgeries last week. The General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church USA voted 441-30 in favor of an overture known as “On Access to Healthcare.” The measure defends body-mutilating surgeries for people, including children, who pretend to be the opposite sex. 2 Timothy 4:3-4 says, “For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.” Christian US soccer player: “I'm just trying to bring people into His light.” The American men's soccer team lost to Belgium on Monday. The game knocked the U.S. out of the 2026 World Cup. Despite the loss, players on the U.S. team continued their practice of praying together on the field after the game. Player Mark McKenzie led the prayer, having become a spiritual leader on the team.  He told The Athletic, “The Lord is at the center of it all. He is the main purpose. … And I'm just trying to bring people into His light in some way.” Worldview listeners weigh in from Washington and North Carolina Rachel Lundberg in Washougal, Washington wrote, “I like The Worldview because It allows me to feel like I'm aware of important things going on without having to spend so much time watching other news and sorting it out or wondering if it's true. I almost always just read it in my email and then I share certain parts with my kids and family. “My 13-year-old son recently wanted to subscribe with his own email so he can read it on his own. I also love when there is an action step to send an email or letter. Makes me feel like I can make a difference. Thank you!” Wow! I loved that last comment, Rachel.  I gave you two suggested action steps today. I hope you follow through on them.  I agree with you.  It feels empowering.  I always try to write or call myself every time I recommend it to you. And Chris Smith in Columbus, North Carolina wrote, “I've been a listener now for 10 years. I've become a vocal and financial supporter as well.  In this current era, it's very difficult to find the truth about what is going on to our fellow Christians in the world without doing a lot of digging. “Since I first found you on Sermon Audio, I've become an addict of your newscast. It's a part of my weekday morning routine to read or to listen to The Worldview. I especially appreciate your correlation to Scripture in two of your stories, your encouragement to keep praying for our persecuted brothers and sisters, and how we can help them financially.” 9 Worldview listeners gave $1,590 on Wednesday And finally, on Wednesday by 7:00pm Central, 9 Worldview listeners stepped up to the plate and invested their treasure to fund the six-member team behind The Worldview for another 365 days. Our thanks to Augustine in Auburn, California and Hope in Big Lake, Minnesota – both of whom gave $20. We were touched by the generosity of Janet in Canton, Illinois, Janice in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and Hannah in San Jose, California – each of whom gave $100. And we're grateful to God for Melinda in Indianapolis, Indiana who pledged $10/month for 12 months for a gift of $120, Adam in Gile, Wisconsin who gave $150, Tom in Spokane, Washington who pledged $40/month for 12 months for a gift of $480, and Nancy in Flagstaff, Arizona who gave $500. Those 9 gifts add up to $1,590. Ready for our new grand total? Drum roll please. (drum roll sound effect) $19,288 (sound effect of people cheering) That means we have just 2 days to raise $11,587 to hit our $30,875 goal by tomorrow at 12 midnight on Friday, July 10th.  To be honest, that is going to be a challenge. But with God, all things are possible. Since the beginning of this month-long campaign to fully fund the six-member Worldview team for another year, the greatest number of donations has been 15. Let's double that today!  Would you consider choosing to be 1 of 30 people to step up to the plate with a one-time gift or a monthly pledge? That would help us to get significantly closer to our $30,875 goal by tomorrow, Friday, July 10th, at 12 midnight. Go to TheWorldview.com, click on Give, select the dollar amount, and make sure to click on the “recurring” button if that's your wish.  This Christian newscast champions the truth and a Biblical worldview. Invest in it today for another 365 days. I'm reminded of the words from the prophet Isaiah who said, “Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, ‘Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?' And I said, ‘Here am I. Send me!'” Close And that's The Worldview on this Thursday, July 9th, in the year of our Lord 2026. Subscribe for free by Spotify, Amazon Music, or by iTunes or email to our unique Christian newscast at www.TheWorldview.com. Plus, you can get the Generations app through Google Play or The App Store. I'm Adam McManus (Adam@TheWorldview.com). Seize the day for Jesus Christ.

There are celebrity weddings...There are over-the-top celebrity weddings...And then there's whatever the heck happened in today's episode.The gang dives headfirst into the internet's latest obsession with a completely unhinged conspiracy theory surrounding Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce's wedding. Apparently it wasn't just a wedding—it was an eldritch ritual to summon an ancient cosmic deity while Jared Leto prepared to become the real-life Morbius. Sure. Makes perfect sense. That's how mornings start around here.Once everyone agrees that absolutely none of this sounds impossible, Rafe introduces a brand-new game that immediately exposes just how much celebrity wedding trivia everyone somehow knows. Is the Empire State Building really lighting up for the wedding? Did Adam Sandler write a song? Were chicken nuggets topped with caviar? Did Taylor sing her vows? Who leaked wedding secrets? How many Grammy Awards were secretly wandering around the reception? And perhaps the biggest mystery of all...why does King Scott know so much about Taylor Swift?The competition gets way more intense than anyone expected as everyone argues through true-or-false questions that become increasingly ridiculous while somehow remaining just believable enough to fool the room. Every answer turns into another excuse to roast billionaires, celebrity culture, impossible wedding budgets, elaborate menus, sports legends, and anyone willing to admit they've been following celebrity news a little too closely.Expect fake facts, real laughs, terrible strategy, conspiracy theories that somehow sound convincing, and enough sarcastic commentary to make every Swiftie slightly uncomfortable—but hopefully still entertained.If you've ever wondered what happens when a comedy podcast gives a room full of sarcastic morning radio hosts a celebrity trivia game based almost entirely on internet insanity, this is exactly that.Spoiler alert: somebody unexpectedly becomes the resident Swift expert, someone else keeps overthinking every question, and everyone leaves wondering whether chicken nuggets and caviar actually belong together.It's another completely unnecessary deep dive into pop culture chaos that somehow becomes one of the funniest competitions we've played.Whether you're here for celebrity gossip, sports references, bizarre internet theories, or simply watching adults confidently answer questions they absolutely don't know, this comedy podcast delivers exactly the kind of beautiful disaster you've come to expect.Because around here, facts are optional, confidence is mandatory, and somehow that's what makes this comedy podcast work.Follow The Rizzuto Show → https://linktr.ee/rizzshow for more from your favorite daily comedy show.Connect with The Rizzuto Show Comedy Podcast online → https://1057thepoint.com/RizzShow.Hear The Rizz Show daily on the radio at 105.7 The Point | Hubbard Radio in St. Louis, MO.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Dr. Deb Muth 0:05What if your immune system isn’t broken, it’s just confused? What if chronic Lyme, the autoimmune condition, the food sensitivities, the exhaustion that never lifts what if those aren’t separate problems but one problem? A misfiring immune system that nobody taught how to stand down. Today’s guest has spent over 15 years doing exactly that, retraining the immune system from the inside out with a therapy so precise, so safe, and so effective that it has changed the lives of thousands of people who’d been written off by conventional medicine. Stay with me. This one changes everything.Welcome back to Let’s Talk Wellness Now, the show where we pull back the curtain on chronic illness, challenge outdated medical thinking, and hand you the real tools to heal from the inside out. I’m Dr. Deb, integrative and functional medicine practitioner, medical detective, and your straight-talking guide through the world of root cause medicine. Today, we’re going to dive deep into the immune system, specifically something called low-dose immunotherapy or LDI, and also into some hormones, chronic fatigue, and what it actually looks like to treat the cause instead of suppressing the symptoms. If you or someone you love has been told there’s nothing more we can do, this episode was made for you. Grab your cup of coffee, Settle in and let’s get to work. Now, before we bring in today’s guest, a quick word from our sponsor, and then we are diving straight in. I promise. Did you know sweating can literally heal your cells? Infrared saunas don’t just relax you, they detox your body, balance hormones, and boost mitochondrial energy. I’m obsessed with my HealthTech Sauna, and right now you can save $500 with my code at healthtechhealth.com/dr-muth-req-25.I want to start you with a story because this is one I’ve heard hundreds of times in my own practice, and I’m guessing you’ve either lived it or know someone who has. She’s 42. She’s been sick for years. Fatigue that doesn’t lift with sleep, joint pain that migrates, brain fog so thick she can’t finish a sentence, and a gut that seems to react to everything she eats. She’s been to her GP, rheumatologist, gastroenterologist, maybe even an immunologist, and every single lab comes back within quote unquote normal limits. She’s handed a prescription for something to manage the symptoms and sent home. Maybe she’s been told it’s anxiety. Maybe she’s been told it’s aging, or maybe and this one always breaks my heart she’s told it’s all in her head. That woman is not imagining it. She is not anxious and she’s not aging poorly. Her immune system has lost its ability to tolerate things it’s supposed to tolerate, and no one has offered her the therapy that could actually fix that. And what we’re talking about today with my guest has been practicing integrative medicine for over 15 years. Ty Vincent holds a medical degree from the University of Washington. He completed his family medicine residency in Anchorage, Alaska, and since has built one of the most impressive clinical repertoires I’ve seen anywhere in this field: acupuncture, Chinese medicine, environmental medicine, bioidentical hormones, hyperbaric medicine, chelation, regenerative peptide therapy, psychedelic-assisted therapy, and nutritional medicine.He lives and practices on the Big Island of Hawaii. He is married has 9 children. Oh my gosh, 9! And he has personally navigated type 1 diabetes, which, as you’ll hear, is not separate from his mission. It actually is his mission. And most importantly, he is a world authority on low-dose immunotherapy, a therapy he pioneered in 2008 and since has trained over 200 providers globally and changed the course of chronic illness care as we know it. I have had the pleasure of learning from Dr. Ty Vincent. I have had pleasure of taking his low-dose immunotherapy course when he first started back in like 2008 or 2009. I remember doing it back then and learning more about it in 2011. And this is going to be a great conversation for us. So one quick ask that I have for you guys, if this sounds like something that you want to learn more about and you’ve listened to some of our shows, please share like, subscribe. It means a lot. It helps us grow our channel. It helps us continue to provide for you different topics, different speakers, and really give you what it is that you’re looking for.So without further ado, I’d like to introduce you to Dr. Ty Vincent. All right, so Dr. Ty Vincent, this is gonna be a great conversation. We were just chatting before we went live of my training with you guys way back in like 2015, and I’m excited to hear all the new things that you’ve got going on. But introduce yourself to the audience. Tell us a little bit about you, how you got involved in this, uh, where you’re at, all that good stuff. Tyvincent 5:29Okay. I, uh, it’s a long story, but some of the highlights, I guess I was born in Alaska in the early ’70s and grew up there kind of wandering around in the woods with my dogs with no one around all day long. It was amazing. You don’t get kids don’t get that experience anymore. So you kind of learn to be an independent thinker, I think, you know, because latchkey kid, parents weren’t home till 6 and you’re on your own from early. Dr. Deb Muth 5:49That was a great time, wasn’t it? Yeah. Tyvincent 5:51I mean, I have, I have 9 children now and none of them grew up like me. And despite my effort, I mean, I’d have to basically like helicopter them out in the woods and drop them off for a few hours for them to understand what independent kids today are so dependent and parents are so helicopter that, uh, it’s changed. Anyway, I, I grew up just really liking science and really loving science, a huge nerd. And, um, and, uh, when I went into college, when I wanted to be a marine biologist and I thought that that was my passion of the ocean wildlife and all that, and then halfway through college, personal Couple things made me change my mind. It was a girl, you know, the usual. And I decided to go to school in Anchorage instead of going I was, I was transferring to Hawaii and I was going to study marine biology. And then, uh, my girlfriend moved back to Alaska where we were from. And I decided to do that instead. And then they didn’t have a marine science program.So I decided I’ll just get a biology degree and go to medical school. I’m a smart guy. I can do that, but I had no awareness of medicine. I really didn’t have any, you know, the passion some people have to be a healer and to go help people wasn’t part of the calculus at all for me. I was kind of an Asperger’s kid, so that really wasn’t the way I thought, honestly. And then I went into medicine and I was really interested in the science, the biology, the biochemistry, all the stuff, the physiology. And before I started medical school, I was reading some Andrew Weil’s books and I was, I decided to get a book on nutritional biochemistry because I naively thought that’s what they were going to teach me, right? This is how you make people healthy. You figure out how it works and you give them the things that make their body work right. Yeah. And we all know that that’s. Not been true for over 100 years now since the Flexner Report. And, you know, the rich people steered the government towards pharmaceuticals. Dr. Deb Muth 7:26Yeah. Tyvincent 7:26But that was my interest. And when I went through the first 2 years of medical school, I just really devoured all of the basic science stuff. And that was what I thought was the most important. And I honestly mastered all that. I scored in the top 1% in the country on all the exams and everything. And it was the top, in the top of my class at the University of Washington. And then you start doing clinical medical training and you discover that they don’t use any of that knowledge anymore, really, unless it pertains directly to pharmaceuticals, and that pharmaceutical research is extremely narrow and reductionist, and they only want to try to prove one little effect, and it doesn’t translate to real health. So as I got into clinical work and started residency, you know, by the third year of residency, I was like, they didn’t really teach me how to help people with chronic illness. You know, I was, I went to family medicine residency, so I was delivering babies.I was assisting with surgeries. I was in the ER. I was doing colonoscopies. I actually did colonoscopies in practice after residency, which family Doctors almost never get to do, but I’m a small town in Alaska. So I managed my own ICU patients and did everything, literally circumcisions in the office. And you’re dealing with like hospice and end of life care, just both ends, right? Pregnancy to death. And so I’d realized that if I really wanted to do the job well, which was my goal, I needed to learn other things. And in my, in my third year of residency, I actually did the extra, like, like additional training in medical acupuncture that was put on by the Helms Medical Institute then with Joseph Helms.And that was great. And I had to learn Chinese medical theory and I learned, I did the extra module on Chinese herbal medicine. And it was wonderful because I had to open my mind to a completely different way to evaluate people and illness. And I thought, okay, well then there’s got to be more. And as I went, I just became this voracious consumer of broad medical knowledge, not conventional medicine. You notice how a lot of the conventional people call it traditional medicine? Dr. Deb Muth 9:07Yes. Tyvincent 9:07Which annoys the crap out of me because there’s nothing traditional about something that’s been around for 100 years. I mean, you need time, you need like an epoch to say something’s traditional. But they’re like, no, I’m like, and then we were considered alternative medicine minded and everything like, oh, well, Well, it’s an alternative to real medicine. The vernacular in our culture really dictates thinking, unfortunately. I went on to learn functional medicine. So like 2005, I did the acupuncture training. 2006, I found the IFM and I read their entire textbook in a few months. And I went to the trainings. I was like, okay, now I know what you guys have to teach me. And then I found a bioidentical hormone therapy training course that was like Jonathan Wright and Terry Hertog. Dr. Deb Muth 9:46Terry Hertog, yes. My favorite guys. Tyvincent 9:49They were great. Dr. Deb Muth 9:50Pioneers, right? Tyvincent 9:51Yeah, exactly. And, you know, I learned what their opinions were and all that. And then you don’t really learn how to use a tool or you don’t get really get facile with something until you are using it and you’re applying it to your patients. And I went beyond that. I learned all kinds of IV nutrition. I learned chelation therapy. I joined the Environmental Medicine Academy and I learned how to do various forms of immunotherapy, eventually leading to learning LDA, low dose allergy therapy, through them in 2008. And for those of you listeners who don’t know about low-dose allergy therapy, when you learn about it, basically it’s like homeopathic dilutions of antigens.But instead of single antigens, like if you go to that regular allergist, they’ll just prick test you, blood test you, whatever, and say, oh, you react to mold, you react to chicken, you react to your husband’s whatever. They don’t test for that. I sometimes do. And they’re very narrow-minded about it. And it’s like you just give the antigens that the person tested for and you’re always missing something. With LDA, you get these huge broad mixtures of antigens, like for foods, it’s just hundreds of foods compiled into one for environmental allergens. And the reason you can get away with it is that the dilution factor is so far out. There’s no physical interaction with the body and you can’t, there’s no risk of inducing allergy, right? Whereas conventional shots might be 1,000 to 1, 100 to 1 dilution. We’re out at like a billion to 1 or further in most of these. And it sounded like nonsense to me, right? Despite all of my training I’d already had and all these things and being open-minded, it still sounded ridiculous. Pointless, right?But at least I was willing to give it a try because I had patients in my clinic, my family medicine clinic in Alaska, that had horrific allergies. Just like kids with eczema from head to toe. They look like they’ve been set on fire. Half their hair wouldn’t grow out of their head. They’re just miserable. They won’t grow. They’re on steroids. And I just thought, if there’s if this has any chance of working for these kids, I’m going to give it a try. Plus, two of my kids at the time had eczema, like persistent eczema that was really annoying. And I kids with eczema is a near and dear thing to me now. I like, I get emotional treating these kids, but, but that’s because it’s miserable for the families. Right. So I took it hard and I started treating my kids and, and, uh, kids in my clinic with LDA and it worked like magic because magic is just science we haven’t figured out yet. Right. We just, you know, some, but it was undeniable that it was working incredibly well. And then I was like, well, what is going on here? How does this work? And you learn the whole history of it. It goes back to the 1950s. I’m like, but, but it’s still so limited. There’s so much more as you start to treat patients with every tool in your toolbox, you run into these walls occasionally where you’re like, okay, everything I’m doing now isn’t working. And this patient has some kind of chronic inflammation, which is a very general term.People go, I have inflammation. Yeah, yeah. What we all do every day, all the time. But they would have these chronic inflammatory disorders that really seem to be immune driven. And then I thought, well, in terms of understanding low-dose allergy therapy, if I can identify what the target antigen really is that’s underlying this patient’s condition, and I can restore tolerance to that, which is basically how LDA works, then you could resolve it. And so I set about experimenting with all kinds of autoimmune disorders. I mean, at the time, LDA and the predecessor therapy called EPD, they had a few bacterial antigens, and we knew that there were connections between like rheumatoid arthritis and the bacterium Proteus. So that was in one. Klebsiella was the target antigen for ankylosing spondylitis. I’m thinking, well then, what about all these other autoimmune disorders? So I started just treating people creatively and trying all kinds of different things. Luckily, I had a contact in Orange County who had a warehouse, like a biomedical sample warehouse, and he was willing to give me antigen mixtures almost anything you could imagine in the biomedical world.The first thing I had him put together was Candida. I found those of us in the medicine space realize that some people have this huge problem with Candida. The conventional medical world thinks, well, yeah, everybody’s got Candida. That’s not a thing unless it’s an infection, blah, blah, blah. But you see these patients that are super ill, persistently ill, and you give them antifungals because you think, okay, well, you have these red rashes and itching and constipation and fatigue and muscle pain, blah, blah, whatever. It sounds like a yeast problem. Some of them, interestingly, if you do stool analysis, they show no yeast on their stool, which is a clue to me with a different thinking process that the reason the yeast isn’t growing in their stool is their immune system must be attacking it and killing it off in the gut, right? Because who doesn’t carry Candida? So the, the tests that run those are the stool company the test the companies that run the stool test, they don’t flag that result as abnormal because, yay, good, you have no yeast. But it’s horribly abnormal, right? Like if you saw somebody with no, no ears, you’re like, that’s not right. And so I thought, well, maybe they’re immunologically hypersensitive Candida. And so I, I was able to purchase a mixture of Candida species. And it occurred to me that I should include Saccharomyces cerevisiae in there because baker’s yeast and brewer’s yeast, people become sensitive to that too.So I made this and some of the patients that I was seeing where I would put them on Diflucan and Nystatin and all their symptoms would just evaporate, right? But you try to stop the medications after a month or whatever, and within 48 to 72 hours, their symptoms are right back. And that was one of the things, another clue to me, like, well, then that’s not an infection. I mean, they’re not taking antibiotics. They’re not eating a ton of sugar. Why would this regrow? And one of my criticisms of our integrative medicine world is we have just as many fairy tales and dogmatic beliefs as the conventional medical world. They’re just more colorful. Dr. Deb Muth 14:59That is true. That is very true. Yeah. Tyvincent 15:01And people were saying, oh, well, it’s because Candida lurks and hides in these nooks and crannies and corners in your body. And I’m like, I’ve done colonoscopies for years. I don’t know what you’re talking about. Like, it’s sparkling clean in there after some Go Lightly or whatever you torture your patient with the day before a colonoscopy. I was like, well, that doesn’t make sense. And they’re like, well, it’s because Candida uses mercury as a weapon to fight off your immune system. I’m like, you’re anthropomorphizing this organism as if it had agency to make tools, right? It doesn’t make sense. So then I came up with this idea to desensitize people to Candida. And it was incredibly effective.These patients, when you find the right dilution, you know, and for those who don’t know, it’s just a couple of drops of water put under your tongue, taken out of a syringe from multiple different dilution steps of the mixture, whether they’re using, right? So these people would respond. Most things I’ve developed, people respond. Somewhere near a trillion to one mathematically. And it was incredible. And I was like, okay, this is something that I’m sure relates to other chronic illness problems. And I started experimenting with I had a couple of patients with inflammatory bowel disease, ulcerative colitis, both of them early on. That was 2009. And I was like, well, they didn’t respond to the yeast mixture. They didn’t respond to the food mixture. And I was like, well, they’re reacting to something.And presumably that something is living in their gut. Right? I now know people react to different bacteria. There’s a ton of different bacteria and other organisms in your stool. So I came up with the crazy idea after seeing Dr. Bill Ray at an environmental medicine meeting talk about what he called autologous vaccines. Dr. Deb Muth 16:29Right? Tyvincent 16:30And I want to be clear, the way a vaccine works is probably the total opposite of how LDA works. It’s not the same thing. You’re restoring tolerance with LDA, LDI, and you’re promoting a robust immune reaction to a target antigen with a vaccine. At least that’s the theory. And now I’m not. It’s true. But Dr. Ray was talking about that and I thought, well, that’s a cool idea. And I went up and I asked him like, how do you do this?How do you make these things? And he kind of gave me like a very brief, you know, brush off. He didn’t know me very well. He’s like, oh, you get these Millipore filters, these little things you put on a syringe and you can dilute something and pass it through into a vial and it’ll be a sterile solution and you can dilute it. I was like, oh, great. So I collected one of my ulcerative colitis patients’ stool who was having at the time like 12 bloody bowel movements per day, every day. He’d seen all the conventional gastroenterologists. He tried the different drugs. They weren’t working. He went to some really special integrative greater clinic in California that primarily dealt with gastrointestinal disorders, and he did everything they wanted him to do, and it also didn’t help.I did discover that he was sensitive to gluten, and when he went off gluten, his, his gut still didn’t improve. So I made this autologous stool, um, LDA I called it then, which now I change it to LDI because LDA is a proprietary term and it’s also very narrow in scope. And I gave him doses and looked like the second dilution maybe that I went through hit. Literally his, his diarrhea and bleeding stopped overnight. And by 3 days he was having completely normal stools and no pain, nothing. And that taught me a couple of things. One, this theory works, right? And two, you know, we talk about the concept of leaky gut in the alternative medicine world, like integrative medicine world, sorry, a lot.And I’m like, yeah, but that’s not a diagnosis. That’s a symptom. You know, you still figure out what’s causing inflammation. And people are like, I just have leaky gut. It’s chronic. And you know, what do you do? And what I found was if you just put the fire out, the house rebuilds itself. Health very quickly. You know, we know that the lining of the gut turns over extremely fast. That’s why it is one of the first things to go when you do chemotherapy. And these people were basically healed to normal within less than a week. Same thing with kids with eczema that had these horrible oozing, weeping skin patches. Dr. Deb Muth 18:25I would. Tyvincent 18:25Or psoriasis even. When I developed some things that would treat psoriasis later on, you, you give this person with just, you know, deforming sort of rashes the right antigen, within 3 to 5 days they have normal looking skin except for maybe residual depigmentation or scarring if but it just blew me away. Dr. Deb Muth 18:42That’s crazy. 3 Days. Tyvincent 18:44The key to solving these problems was to restore immunological tolerance for the thing that it had lost tolerance for. Dr. Deb Muth 18:50Right. Tyvincent 18:50And it just really made me think about everything we were taught about chronic illness and everything we’re taught about the immune system in a very different way. And so since 2009, I’ve developed I’ve continued to develop new mixtures for new things because I run into patients. I can treat so many more things now highly successfully than I could before, but there’s still always the failures. People would ask me over the years, you know, why did you pick up all these skill sets?Like I learned acupuncture and Chinese medicine. I learned bio I became a Reiki master even, because I’m like, well, energy is a thing too. And so I get into the energy medicine world and that also works. And especially if you add it to acupuncture, it’s a great combination. All this stuff. And I would still fail. And I, it occurred to me when people ask me the question, like, I’m driven by failure. I really don’t like it. And I said, uh, and I thought that was how everybody believed, you know what everybody thought, right? But then you when you study our conventional medical colleagues and a lot of our people in the integrative medicine world too, that are doing the same things, the same protocols.And I hate the word protocol because it’s a poor substitute for thinking, right? It’s so that you don’t have to think here, follow this list, but everybody’s so different. So I never developed a protocol for anything to this day. I don’t, that’s not what I do. I was like, despite all of this, their patients aren’t getting better either. And it’s like, well then, you know, just philosophically, which I was a big philosophy student in college too. I thought if, if what you’re doing doesn’t work, do something different, you know, make new mistakes, figure things out. And I just got really creative. And by now I have, my gosh, I have 100 different kinds of antigen mixtures. And to be very honest, half of them have never worked for anything because that’s how it works, right? You got to. Dr. Deb Muth 20:17You’re trying it. Geez. Yeah. Tyvincent 20:19You’ve got to be willing to be wrong if you ever want to be right. One of the things I’ve noticed about humans in general is they’re very unwilling to see when they’re wrong because it’s emotionally painful to let go of something that has maybe been a part of your self-identity or especially like when you get experts in a field and they’re famous for some theory or treatment or whatever they developed, even if evidence shows up later, which it inevitably does, to show that what they’re doing isn’t complete, maybe not wrong, but not complete, there’s huge resistance, right, to the change. Dr. Deb Muth 20:49No one will admit that there’s something that didn’t work initially when they thought it did. Tyvincent 20:54Right. And nobody wants to admit I’ve been doing something wrong or ineffective or less than it could be for 20 years. You know, that’s unsettling. But to me, I’m like, well, isn’t it worse to keep doing it wrong? Right? Dr. Deb Muth 21:06That’s the whole idea. Like, right? We’re supposed to be bettering ourselves. Medicine’s supposed to be adapting and changing, and we don’t. Like, there’s a lot of things that we still do the same way we did in the 1950s and ’60s. Cancer treatment is one of them, right? We don’t really do anything different than we did back then. And when you look at precision medicine, we have all these new tools, but people stay stuck in their way of doing things just because maybe it’s easier, they’re comfortable or whatever. It doesn’t always make it the best interest for the client. Tyvincent 21:36No. And that is the goal we all need to keep in mind. Dr. Deb Muth 21:38Yeah. Tyvincent 21:39What I thought was like the job is to fix the problem the person has. And if the tools you currently have don’t do that, you need to learn something else. Dr. Deb Muth 21:48Yeah. Tyvincent 21:48And eventually I got a little saturated with learning new things. Dr. Deb Muth 21:51I’ve been there. Tyvincent 21:54Turns out there’s a limit. You know, we use the term drinking from the fire hose for everybody who like comes, like conventionally trained doctors who first get into the integrative medicine world. You’re just like, what are you talking about? It’s all so foreign and new. And then you have to use it and realize, okay, there’s, there’s a lot of truth here. But I got to a point where it’s like, I just don’t have the time in my day to use every tool. Like I bought an Indigo machine. I don’t know if you’ve heard of it. So the old EAV technology from Germany long ago, electrodiagnostic things and Then they developed computer programs and software that could analyze 11,000 different frequencies. It’s all energy frequency based. And I bought one of these for like $25,000. I still have it in the case collecting dust because I just didn’t have time to learn how to use the tool. And I was like, all right, I got to just get really, really good at some things and then let my colleagues who are good at other things help people with the things I can’t treat and I’ll tell them where to go. You know, it’s a collective, it’s a team effort. Dr. Deb Muth 22:47Right. It’s got to be a team effort. I’m curious what you’re finding these days with the newfound for mass cell, right? MCAS, everybody’s problem child, and nobody has a good answer. And it’s, it’s an immune reaction, right? It’s not just that I’m allergic to everything situation. Back in the day, 20 years ago, you and I would have called these the chemically sensitive people, and now we at least understand what’s going on. It’s an immune reaction. But I’m curious what you’re finding with LDI and that population of people. Tyvincent 23:19It’s a really good question. I know, I know you’ve had other interviews where people have discussed it philosophically to start the conversation. I really have found over the years that a diagnosis is the least helpful thing you can give your patient. Dr. Deb Muth 23:31Agreed. Tyvincent 23:31But we love labels. We love names. And we, and the problem is when you give something a name that does not reflect what’s actually going on, it just leads everybody’s brain in the wrong direction. And so there’s nothing wrong with these people’s mast cells. And that’s why I’m like, I despise the term mast cell activation disorder, but It is okay that they may be the end of the line releasing histamine and whatever, but a lot of these people have tons of inflammatory symptoms that have nothing to do with histamine, right? There are lots of mechanisms in the immune system that can give you cell-mediated inflammation or humoral, like antibody-mediated inflammation, different things. And mast cells are kind of an IgE thing, but it’s way more complicated than that.And when you work with these people, because a lot of them have found me because they have a very difficult time finding answers and solutions. I’ve been at most of us in this field have been at the bottom of a funnel where the options decrease because you try more and more therapies and they don’t work and the desperation increases kind of inversely proportionally. And then they’re trying weirder and weirder things that like people think are bizarre, you know, like you can eventually sting yourself with 20 bees a day, do apitherapy or something. Dr. Deb Muth 24:36I remember that therapy. And you know, as a practitioner too, it becomes more and more frustrating because it’s like, I’m trying all these things and nothing is working. What am I missing? And you keep trying different things until they just give up on you or you give up on them or whatever ends up happening, you know. Tyvincent 24:52Right. But again, like philosophically, every failure should lead you a step closer to success. Dr. Deb Muth 24:58Yeah. Tyvincent 24:58If you can look at it and you can learn from it what is possible from it and go, okay, I got to do this different or change this, or perhaps my entire theory about this problem is just dead wrong. Yeah. So if what I think is happening isn’t what’s happening, what else could be happening? And then you, you know, you come up with a theory and then you have to devise a way to test test it. And so like a lot of people probably tossed around theories about things being immune related or whatever over the years because it becomes a little obvious at a certain point, but they didn’t have a tool to test the theory.So that was the, the unique position I found myself in from 2009 onward was I’ve got a way to test this if I can figure out what antigen to try. And so I got a lot of mast cell people with that diagnosis. And, you know, my assessment of the problem is that when they come into my office, because like you and like most of people that are kind made it a little further in the integrative medicine world. The patients that find you have already seen 20 of your colleagues at the Mayo Clinic and the Cleveland Clinic and Germany, like Mexico, whatever. They’ve had exosomes infused up their nose or whatever. Like, all right, so what has not been explored yet? And you got to realize, okay, these, these people are there’s something going on. It’s very inflammatory. It’s probably immune related, but where is it coming from? Again, you mentioned root cause. You’ve got to trace the steps backward and try to figure out where is the point of intervention that will actually work and that’s feasible. And so what I found in these people, most of them have a pretty common early story of having had one or a few immune reactions that first began the process. And they might’ve been fairly benign and not that big of a deal.And then they go through some kind of immunological stress, whether it’s, well, some kind of stress, whether it’s a direct immune stress, like a vaccination or an infection or something like that. Like with COVID I’ve had an equal number of people who developed chronic immunological disorders after having the virus infection or having the vaccine. And the things that develop are virtually identical. So people are like, I should be gotten the vaccine. I’m like, it really doesn’t make any difference. Dr. Deb Muth 26:53Right. And I’ve seen the same thing with the HPV vaccine too. Like a lot of young people, they get that and all of a sudden their whole system is torn off after that. It’s very common. Tyvincent 27:03Except in that example, just getting HPV doesn’t do it. It’s the vaccine that does it. Dr. Deb Muth 27:07Vaccine that does it. Yes, exactly. Tyvincent 27:10Because everybody’s got HPV, you know, some other, and that is not in and of itself enough of an inflammatory trigger to lead to these chronic illness, right? You can lead to cancer, sure. Which is focal and it’s not a hypersensitivity problem. It’s a failure of immune defense problem. It’s a little different. So I would get these people and I’m like, okay, what happened first? What’s the beginning of the story? Because if you talk to them about how they’re feeling today, and a lot of your listeners, this will resonate with them. If I ask you how you’re doing today, the real cause of your problem is buried under a snowstorm of constant inflammation and your life experience is utter hell. And you have no clue what’s really triggering anything anymore. It’s like at a certain point, the immune system has developed PTSD, right? It’s just, it’s hypervigilant. Anything you give these people to take, even like vitamin C or whatever, then they go, ah, it made me worse.Ah, it made me worse. Because their immune system is now seeing anything foreign as an invader, as an enemy. So if you ask people just about how they’re doing today, you get absolutely nowhere. With these people. The one theory I had though was, well, maybe they’re reacting to histamine itself. Okay. I think is a beautiful theory. Makes total sense. Didn’t work at all. Spoiler alert. It’s not that it doesn’t work. It’s easy to get a sample of histamine, you know, and I also, I also got histidine, the amino acid from which it’s derived. I’ll say I’ll just put them together. So at least I want to say 12 years ago, I made like a histamine histidine LDI and everyone who had kind of the mast cell picture portfolio of illnesses, I would try it on. It has to this day, it’s never worked for anybody that I’ve tried it on. And I haven’t had another LDI practitioner tell me that it did. But again, that failure made me think about it in a different way. And so the success I’ve had with that population is not monolithic. It’s not one part. From an LDI perspective, figuring out what it is that they began to react to first, like, did you still have, do you have food problems originally?Oh yeah, I was kind of sensitive to gluten, but I just ate it anyway because I would just get some diarrhea and some, okay, it it was, it was livable, right? But they just keep exposing themselves to this trigger. And eventually something snaps in their immune system. Like they live in a moldy dorm room for 6 months and that all of that immune activation will kick off whole new immune response problems. And the world of mold is another area where I think people don’t, do not really understand what’s going on. And a lot of our treatment approaches don’t work for a large portion of these people. And it has to be kind of thought of in a broader sense. They could go through a divorce. They could have a car accident. They could have a surgery. A woman could have a baby, which is one of the biggest immunological triggers, unfortunately, is having a baby or early pregnancy miscarriage even is enough to do. Emotionally stressful. It’s physically stressful. It’s immunologically stressful.And then it swings your estrogen back up and you get this hypersensitive profile. But so all of these, what I call catalytic events were common in these people. And it’s not just one, it’s any one of them. And what I found was if I could identify what their initial triggers were categorically, right? Environmental things, chemical things, food. And if I could desensitize them to those, everything would settle down. And, and that was, that’s been the key to working with those people. But they want to tell you how horrible their life is today. Dr. Deb Muth 30:17Yeah. Tyvincent 30:17And you got to listen to that because you need the connection. You need to understand what they’re dealing with. You need to understand what their baseline is so that you can compare going forward. But the answers, the solutions aren’t in that story. And the solutions are in the history. And like, what’s the first thing you remember? And all this, like, okay, well, let’s go with foods. Let’s go with chemicals, whatever. And if somebody has distinctly worst triggers, right? Because right now they react kind of to everything. Any foods that you absolutely don’t eat because they give you the absolute worst reaction pattern, right? Oh yeah, I can’t eat these things. They’re the worst. Okay, well, maybe we’ll start with those and you can use those foods as your test exposures to determine if the dose works each time. So that’s one of the things I’ve developed stylistically over the years is the use of a test exposure if we’re using an allergen extract so that you can confirm or deny whether the therapy worked, right? Because people will tell you, oh, I feel better.Turns out that’s not worth much. You really need like, I mean, And belief is a huge part of that. Placebo effect is a huge part of that. You want to find something relatively objective, you know, so will you still vomit when you have chicken? You know, cause that’s like, that’s pretty obvious. And then go with that, you know, or do you still get a rash when you put on a bandaid? I love it when people get rashes from contact cause they can show me pictures and it’s not subjective, turns out. But even those reactions can go away 100% with placebo doses. It’s fascinating how people respond to placebos. So anyway, I try to find like the root beginning allergens. And then a lot of these people also accumulate other target antigens as they go through their process of being ill. Their immune system is so upset and it’s, it’s also just blurry vision, right? It attacks anything. Angry dog on a chain. If you get close enough, it’ll bite you. It doesn’t care who you are. And that’s how their immune systems get.So finding the antigens that are root cause is key. But a lot of these people have developed over time total adrenal burnout. Out, right? Because they’re in state of chronic inflammation, everything. So I also found that I had to lean on my skill in bioidentical hormone therapy, which over all the years I’ve been in integrative medicine, the two major skill areas that gave me the best results in general were hormonal management and immunological modulation. I got so many of the prior failures I was able to solve with those two things. And so if I would support these people’s adrenal, like hormones, you know, DHEA, cortisol, to optimal levels, a lot of them, their symptoms would cut by half, number one. And you would have a little more clarity as to what their actual triggers were.So in a lot of these cases, I learned to start with that before I even decided what antigens to pick. You can kind of get the snowstorm to calm down. You can start to find the snowmen in the blizzard that you couldn’t see before with all the chaos. I was like, okay, now that you’re feeling better most of the time, you can tell that these chemicals bother you, that mold exposure bothers you, that whatever, and then you can target things But the other third kind of leg of the tripod that I found are the keys to success with our most complex patients is to address like the hormonal issue, the immunological issue, but the subconscious fear response, the subconscious stress response in them. Dr. Deb Muth 33:14Trauma. Tyvincent 33:15And I saw that you’ve also people, yeah, trauma and people have medical trauma, not just trauma from their illness itself, but trauma from seeing 12 doctors that treated them like they were a head case and ignored what’s going on. Dr. Deb Muth 33:25Of the medical community, right? Tyvincent 33:27Oh God, you know, like people— yeah, the more doctors you see, the more your trust in doctors goes down. Dr. Deb Muth 33:34Yes, exactly. Tyvincent 33:35They see one of us and some of them just automatically are like, whatever, here’s another failure coming my way, kind of thing, you know, realistic. Partly because it becomes too risky to have hope, right? Like after a while you’ve had hope, hope, and it’s been dashed, and you just can only handle that so many times. It’s like you fall in love and then they dump W. And after a while you’re like, I’m celibate. I don’t care anymore. Um, so you get these people and what we have found, my wife and I started doing psychedelic-assisted therapy with patients a few years back. In fact, this little cottage on my property we built specifically for that purpose. People can come and stay here for a couple of days.There’s a bedroom on the other side of this wall. And we do therapy with them. We have a very good process of getting their hormones tested before they come, trying to correct any deficiencies or imbalances, especially cortisol and DHEA. We try to make sure that if they have immune problems that seem manageable, we maybe try to control those first. But in a lot of these people, we have to get their subconscious fire alarm to go off first because anything new that enters into their sphere of existence is seen as this, you know, scary thing. Dr. Deb Muth 34:36Yeah. Tyvincent 34:36And so what we found is getting their subconscious to settle down, getting them to integrate past whatever trauma they’ve had so that it’s no longer causing harm today from an experience 20 years ago, right? Because that’s not fair. A lot of these people, all of their immune stuff stops and I don’t even have to do LDI. And that’s fascinating. And some of them, we put them on hormone replacement, everything calms down enough. It’s like one of these things sometimes works. And in other people, they need all three. And the trick in those people is to figure out what thread you have to pull on first. You know, it’s like, well, okay. And we spend a lot of time, my wife and I both work with patients together. She’s amazing. She’s not a trained clinical clinician. You know, she had a business degree, but she’s like, she tells people I attended the school of Dr. Ty Vincent for 10 years. Dr. Deb Muth 35:20Yes. Tyvincent 35:21Heard him say all this a million times. And when we first started seeing patients from home together, she read all of my patient notes and just great. So she. Dr. Deb Muth 35:28Yeah, that’s how you learn. Tyvincent 35:30Yeah. And people like, well, I didn’t go she’s like, I didn’t go to medical school. I’m like, that’s an asset, trust me. Dr. Deb Muth (35:34-35:40)Exactly. Oh my God, you haven’t been brainwashed. Exactly. Tyvincent 35:40And you know, it’s not even so much washing as it is like throwing mud all over the walls. All of these false beliefs you’re given, and, you know, not just the beliefs, but the disbeliefs, both of those hold people back. And I was like, it’s your disbeliefs that are the bigger problem because you don’t even realize they’re there. Like when I learned about LDA, I’m like, that’s nonsense. No, it’s not. Dr. Deb Muth 36:02I’m curious, when you treat some of these complex people with LDI, are you using multiple modalities at one time, or are you being really cautious with them and using one at a time? Time, because some of them won’t let you do more than one thing at a time with them. Tyvincent 36:16And so by modalities, you mean like, are we also doing hormone therapy? Are they also doing like IV, like other things? Or you mean multiple antigens within? Dr. Deb Muth 36:24Multiple antigens, yeah. Tyvincent 36:25Um, it really depends. And early on, so I everything I know about LDI, I learned through experience, paying attention, putting connecting dots over you. And it’s been been a very long process, right? Early on, like a kid in a candy store, you see a patient and you find out, oh, they’re allergic to some foods, they’re allergic to some chemicals, they’re allergic to cats and birch tree pollen, and they also have psoriasis or whatever. And you’re like, ooh, I’m going to give you all 4 of these antigen mixtures because you have all 4 of these issues. And by 6 months in, if you’re paying attention, you are completely confused and lost. Dr. Deb Muth 37:03Yeah. Tyvincent 37:04I did that for a number of years and I thought, well, this will be the fastest way to figure things out. It turns out it’s not, unfortunately. Um, what I’ve found is more successful is if I can figure out either what the most important underlying immune reaction is for them that might be cascading into other problems, or you figure out what’s the easiest one to solve first. So if somebody has like the whole mast cell picture and they got all this stuff going on, but they say the biggest thing is I have horrible chemical reactions. I’m a tr I’m trapped in my home. I created an oasis of safety here, but I can’t go anywhere. Anyone who comes to my house has to go into the entryway and take all their clothes off and put on a jumpsuit, right? There are those people. I work with them. Dr. Deb Muth 37:40Oh yeah, I have those clients. Tyvincent 37:42They’re like, oh my God. Well, if we can fix that first, your world will open up a ton. Your fear will come down. Your immune response will come down. And so sometimes it’s a matter of which one seems the most important or which one seems easiest. Like, okay, the test exposures that they have are the most obvious and distinct. For foods and not chemicals or whatever. And the reactions people have to these different antigens can overlap tremendously or even look exactly the same, which is why you kind of need to use one at a time. Because if you’re trying to ride a bike and a motorcycle at the same time, it doesn’t go so well. Dr. Deb Muth 38:16Yeah. Tyvincent 38:16Like, let’s find where you do with where you respond to this one, and then we will have less stuff to deal with. We might have a little bit more clarity as to what you’re reacting to in other categories. And then you kind of go through them sequentially. But if I have somebody who’s not like just in a real state of immunological distress like that, and they go, yeah, I’m allergic to cats and I have a cat because I’ll never get rid of my cat. I don’t understand those people, but, but there are a lot of them. They love their cats. Dr. Deb Muth 38:43A lot of them. Yes. Tyvincent 38:44I’m like, okay, or dog, you know, I’ve had people that are horribly allergic to dogs and the dog still sleeps in bed with them every night. Dr. Deb Muth 38:50Okay. Tyvincent 38:51Um, they’ve got that, that’s very clear, very distinct. And it’s, and it’s like a rash or a runny nose. And then they also have have celiac disease, let’s say. Like, well, we can treat both of those at the same time because the symptoms are totally different. You have test exposures in both categories and you’re not so sick that you’re in a constant state of like trauma response where you can’t even pay attention to anything. Right. And so it’s kind of case by case. And my style is very, very individualized. Like I said, there’s never a protocol. It’s like, I got to talk to people for about I usually talk to people for about an hour. Yeah. More than isn’t really helpful. You know, like, in an hour of time, you’re, you’re kind of saturated with how much you can invest your bandwidth into this particular issue. Now, like, okay, I know where we’re going to start. I don’t know where we’re going to end up, but I know where we’re going to start. And so we encapsulate that and then go, let’s do this. And then everything you do teaches you more about what else you need to do.And it’s a process. I my ego used to be more tied to guessing correctly at the beginning about what was going to work work and to fixing things quickly. And over time I realized like your ego really has no place in the exam room. Like that is a very, very challenging thing for practitioners to try to figure out is how to get your ego out of this because it biases you intellectually, emotionally, and it’s a problem. And our medical colleagues probably have bigger egos than the average human in the population. Let’s be honest. Um, there’s something that comes with the years of study and the investment and the status you have, and it’s a challenge. But if you be like, I just need to be clear about what’s happening, what’s not happening, and you figure things out. And so I was able to have a much better success rate approaching things that way.And every time you put out one little fire for people, one kind of immune response, it, you, you get a better picture about what else is going on. And then eventually all their problems have stopped and you’re okay, cool. I guess we’re done. But it’s, it’s hard. And you do learn that there are still major gaps in your knowledge. And, and you asked earlier about new developments in LDI. And whatnot. And I could literally talk all day about the things that I’ve developed over the years, but I still keep making new antigens. So just last year in the area of food allergy, so like your Mast Cell people, a lot of them have food allergies that are a big part of the underlying problem, and this will be relevant to them. But what I found is a lot of the people who seem to clearly react to food, and I put food in quotes because most of what Americans eat isn’t food, right? It’s it’s at least it’s not just food, or it used to be food and now it’s not. It’s like Frankenfood, and it’s got chemicals in it. It has molecules that don’t exist in nature, so you can react to them.So I found some of these people that would say, oh, I react to processed food items horribly, but if I eat the whole foods, organic whole foods at home, I don’t react. And, um, some of those people will resolve those problems with the chemical LD mixture. So they’re reacting to chem with that. A lot of them will tell you, oh, I also react to perfume. Or gasoline or whatever. Dr. Deb Muth 41:46Yeah. Tyvincent 41:46Okay. And so you can use that and some of those cases will resolve, but a lot of them don’t. And I had increasing failures. Like I’ve been doing this long enough to see and observe that early on I had much better success with these antigen mixtures than over time. People are the pattern and the causes and the manifestations of illness today are evolving right before our eyes because of what we’ve done to our environment and our food and ourselves. So what I came to to sort of theorize about was that maybe some of these people are reacting to processed cooking oils, like seed oils, plant oils that are put into processed foods, right? Because they would tell me a couple of key cases gave me that insight. They would say, well, I still react to all these processed foods.I can’t eat at restaurants, and I’m still reacting horribly to sesame seeds, or I’m still reacting horribly to flax, or I’m still reacting horribly to, like, one of these other things we make processed seed oils from. Well, maybe they’re reacting to the oils. And when we made the food mixture, you use whole food samples, right? So you use like a, a ses like sesame seeds, or I use tahini paste because it’s easier to mix in water. But maybe the antigen, the target antigen, is something inside that that is not properly like, what’s the word I’m looking for properly given to the immune system, or, or like exposed, shown to the immune system, right, in the way that their immune system is reacting to it. Maybe it’s a molecule in there that when you use a whole food antigen is not adequately represented. It’s like, so an oil would do that.And I had actually already years ago realized that some people react to essential oils, like flower extracts or tea tree oil or lavender or whatever. Right. And so I made an essential oils mixture from plant oils from the doTERRA and the Young Living products. I had a couple of patients that were like distributors for these things. And I said, just take an empty vial and put one drop of every single product you have in it and just mail it to me. And they both did that. So I have this huge compendium of essential oils, and I would get people that would still react to oranges and lemons and citrus fruits despite the food mixture. And then the essential oils mixture would totally stop that reaction. So I’d already kind of proven that this was the case with some of those more aromatic oils, right? Now I was like, well, people are reacting to the processed cooking oils because when you take oils out of the plant, if you ever do this at home, they’re opaque and gooey and viscous. And then somehow it’s this really pretty homogeneous, clear liquid that doesn’t separate at all. It has no nothing you see in there.And then you got to wonder, how the hell did they do that? What did they do to make that? And there are all these chemical processes and heat and everything. I’m like, well, it just makes new molecules that your immune system has never seen before. So in May of 2025, I bought 18 different kinds of plant oils, and some of them are really pure, like carrot seed oil, cottonseed oil. But there’s peanut oil and avocado oil and olive oil and, you know, all the seeds and things we use in there. And I even have a video on our Facebook page and probably Instagram of me making this mixture in my kitchen.I was like, people are kind of interested how this works. And I just made it right there on camera because it’s really simple. I started using it in some of my failure cases that had really seemed like they had food allergy responses, but the food mixture didn’t work. And the first one was actually one of our employees who does our social media management. She had a 3-year-old son, I think, probably 2 years old when we started working with him, with really bad body-wide eczema, right? And he never really responded to the food mixture, essential oils, skin bacteria, skin fungi, yeast. I tried all the things that usually work. I’m like, it’s something. And so he made the oil mixture. He was they were the first one. I just sent the doses like, hey, let’s check it out. And I think he got for I started 6C for most things, which is a truly and then it’s like 5.5C, 5C. We got to 3.5C, I think, is where he is, which is a dilution of of 10 million to 1, I believe. And 95% of his eczema just completely went away. Dr. Deb Muth 45:38Wow. Tyvincent 45:39The only thing left was a couple of those patches on his feet. And one of the things I learned about people with eczema is they will have localized, like geographically local consistent reactions to different things. This is crazy, right? Dr. Deb Muth 45:53Yeah. Tyvincent 45:53Your immune system has kind of a, you know, like an overall regulatory system, but it also has regionalized systems, just like the government federal government, state government, county government, city government. It’s, it’s divided like that. So the people will eventually learn, oh, if I eat gluten, I get these itchy bumps on the side of my hand, and if I eat carrots, I get a rash on top of my head, you know. And it’s very, very clear once you identify it. So there’s still something that kid’s reacting to that I haven’t quite solved on his feet. But, um, yeah, that worked amazingly, and it actually made me cry when I got the pictures She’s like, oh, finally, after probably a year and a half of flailing, you know, we got it right. And so now I’ve been using the cooking oils mixture more and more and more. Just yesterday I got an email. I have a teenager, he’s 8, he’s maybe 18, 17, 18, with just really horrible cystic acne, painful, erupting. And the before pictures are just hard to look. I mean, he’s got horrible involvement of both sides of the face, the chest, all over his back, and you can just see the scarring and the redness and the inflammation.And we went through the food mixture with him and whatnot, and it really didn’t touch it. So yesterday I got the report. He got up to the cooking oil mixture at 2.5C, which is 10,000, 100,000 to 1, and, and his cystic acne stopped. Like, he’s getting zero new lesions. All the redness, pain, inflammation is gone, but he still has all this just scarring from it because that’s permanent, right? You have to get that repurposed. And all he has left is little tiny whitehead pimples, like maybe one new one per day here and there. You can see them now in the midst of all this. So acne is diversified. There are different kinds of acne and people can have more than one type and they can react to hormones. They can react like I’ve had guys with bad acne respond to desensitization with testosterone, for example, or women desensitizing them to estrogen or progesterone and the acne will go away sometimes. Some people respond to yeast, some people respond to skin bacteria, skin fungi. And so this is another thing. And my wife actually is one of the more complicated immunological cases I’ve ever had to work with. Working together for 10 years, um, you know, like the first time I saw her, she had Lyme disease and the Lyme LDI just totally stopped those symptoms like magic, which is great.That’s one of my favorite things to treat. Um, because the beliefs we have about Lyme disease, I have found completely untrue because using a different tool. I’m like, oh, it’s an immune problem, not an infection. So anyway, so that, that worked for her. Some of her food reactions went away, but she still continued to get like deep painful cysts if she would have nuts or dairy. And so the cooking oil mixture now, after 10 years of being together, totally stopped those reactions. Peanuts, nuts, dairy. And the dairy one is interesting to me because it’s not a plant oil, right? It’s an animal oil and it’s not represented. And we have dairy products in our other mixture. But I think what’s happening is when cows are fed grain, sometimes what an animal is eating carries through some essence or nature of that substance into the milk. Um, and the thing I’ve seen this the most clearly with is corn. Corn allergy is a very unique situation. The way people deal with it, the way it manifests, the way you have to treat it is different from every other energy. And I don’t have an hour to talk about that specifically, but I observed primarily with corn that anywhere along the food chain, you’ll still react to that food if the animal at the beginning was ever fed corn. Multiple I’ll have babies that get an eczema reaction or a GI reaction if mom eats corn-fed beef. But if mom eats grass-fed beef and then nurses the baby, they’re fine. Dr. Deb Muth 49:33Yeah, I’ve seen that too. Tyvincent 49:34It’s bizarre. Dr. Deb Muth 49:35Yeah. Tied. This has been really so amazing. Um, tell us how people can find you if, if this is resonating with them and they’re like, I need him to figure out the puzzle for me. How do they find you? Tyvincent 49:49So the best thing to do is to go to our website. Our, our business name is Global Immunotherapy, and the website is just http://www.globalimmunotherapy.com. We have, we have a much better website than we did years ago. People schedule directly through the website. Right? There’s all kinds of information. I’ve been making YouTube videos and informational videos for people for more than a decade now because nobody has any idea what I’m talking about. The more they understand it beforehand, one, they get to decide if they just think I’m crazy, right? And they don’t want to waste their time. And there are plenty of those people, but a lot end up talking to me 3 years later because after they’ve tried everybody else and there’s nothing left to try, right? Yeah, yeah, like being at the bottom of the desperation funnel. Yeah, people like, well, I heard about you 5 years ago and didn’t make sense. I’m like, yeah, cool. But then I had 3 or 4 other people over the years tell me I should talk to you. So here I am. That’s, that’s right. And people can watch all these educational instructional videos about how LDI works, what it can be used for. So the more you learn and understand what you’re getting into ahead of time, the less time we have to spend during our hour trying to explain to you the therapy., which to take up half the time and better results you’re going to get because you’re educated and it’s a partnership.Like all of us in the world of integrative medicine, one of the big differences between us and conventional medicine is we understand that it’s a partnership. You have to listen to the patient, you have to educate the patient, you have to engage them in their own health. You can’t just say, here, take this pill and come back in 3 months and I’ll check your labs again to see that you still have the same illness. It’s just and people have a lot of our population has been led to believe that just swallowing a pill is going to fix your problems. But That doesn’t work. And we have to develop a relationship and an understanding and shared knowledge and beliefs. And so people now, they have this opportunity to watch all the videos. And I really want people to do that before they ever schedule, because one, you’ll, you’ll feel like it’s the right therapy for you. And that helps a lot. Having optimism going in is super helpful. And then two, you already know a lot. So you’ll know more about what questions I might ask you and how to answer them. You’ll know more about about how the therapy works, and I won’t have to explain it to you, and we’ll get a better use of our time. And then people can schedule right through the website with either myself or my wife Jeanette. And anybody who Jeanette talks to, she reviews every case with me, and we work together with stuff. And, but in terms of like using LDI, she’s probably the second or third best practitioner in the world. I

Unlocking billions in cloud marketplace revenue. Subscribe to our Newsletter: https://theultimatepartner.com/ebook-subscribe/ Check Out UPX: https://theultimatepartner.com/experience/ This powerful panel discussion featuring leaders from Google, Tackle, and dbt Labs dives deep into the explosive growth of cloud marketplaces and the radical shift toward AI-driven go-to-market strategies. With hyperscaler backlogs nearing half a trillion dollars, the conversation unpacks how top-tier organizations are transforming their compensation models, aligning executive buy-in, and navigating the complexities of co-selling to capture committed customer budgets. From the rise of AI agents acting as metered SaaS to the essential operational investments required to scale marketplace revenue from 10% to over 50%, this session provides an actionable roadmap for software companies ready to dominate the 2026 partner ecosystem. https://youtu.be/LSj49f5FEII Key Takeaways Hyperscaler backlog commitments represent a massive, nearly half-trillion-dollar addressable market that completely changes the budgeting conversation. Successful marketplace selling requires complete executive alignment, right down to the CFO, and strategic adjustments like spiffing sales teams for marketplace transactions. The AI category is experiencing staggering 18x year-over-year growth, forcing companies to pivot toward an “agent-first” go-to-market model. Shifting from traditional channels to cloud go-to-market demands a multi-year, intentional investment in operations, people, and technology. System integrators are evolving into software companies as they build orchestration agents to manage fragmented, end-to-end workflows. Leveraging cloud commitments bypasses standard 12-15 month budget cycles, allowing for significantly faster deal closures and larger initial lands. If you're ready to lead through change, elevate your business, and achieve extraordinary outcomes through the power of partnership—this is your community. At Ultimate Partner® we want leaders like you to join us in the Ultimate Partner Experience – where transformation begins. Key Tags: Google Cloud Marketplace, hyperscaler backlog, cloud commitments, co-selling strategies, AI agents, metered SaaS, product-led growth, rev ops, B2B sales transformation, ecosystem shift, channel strategy, system integrators, Deal registration, private offer APIs, digital transformation, software procurement. Transcript: Insight to Revenue- The State of Cloud GTM [00:00:00] Dai Vu: These are all things everyone has to do to get to that first five to 10 deals, and then 10, 20, 30% of your business through Marketplace. [00:00:09] Vince Menzione: You can feel it happening. The ecosystem is shifting beneath us, the way Hyperscalers are partnering, how AI is remaking the channel and what it means to win in 2026. [00:00:21] Vince Menzione: Welcome to the Ultimate Partner Podcast. I’m Vince Menzi, own your host, and each week I sit down with leaders at the intersection of technology. Partnerships and outcomes. The voices shaping how ecosystems actually work. We talk about what’s real, what’s changing, and what it takes to lead in this era where the partner channel isn’t just part of the strategy. [00:00:43] Vince Menzione: It is the strategy because being in the room changes [00:00:46] John Janke: everything. Let’s start. [00:00:52] Vince Menzione: And we have an incredible session. The way that we wanted today to, to, to start the day up was like, let’s talk about what’s happening right now and let’s get three leaders in this space to come up and talk about the world and how it’s a rapidly evolving. So I want to invite to the stage dvu from Google is a great friend of Ultimate Partner. [00:01:14] Vince Menzione: Are you guys ready? Are you guys micd up already? Okay, good. Good. John Yanke, the CEO and Founder of Tackle, and Sean Todo, who is an incredible leader with DBT, but also an old friend of mine. We worked together on Microsoft Days. Good to see you gentlemen. Thanks Sean. Great to have you with us. [00:01:37] John Janke: They stuck me on the side ’cause they said I’d block the screen if I sat in the middle. [00:01:41] Shawn Toldo: You still block it a little bit. [00:01:42] John Janke: And that picture’s from like 1985. I, I, we do have to get that. I had way darker hair. It was, uh, 10 year, 10 years at a startup. Makes you turn white. [00:01:52] Shawn Toldo: Mine’s the exact same right now. So it’s all good. [00:01:55] Shawn Toldo: Mine’s AI generated. Yeah. [00:01:57] Vince Menzione: Well, you know, guys, I just took it all off at that point, you know, it’s like good. Yeah, but you lose enough of it. You pull it out over the years. Yeah. So, uh, some really exciting times. Uh, you, we gotta spend some time at you at our breakfast. That’s right. A couple weeks ago. [00:02:13] Dai Vu: A lot of folks here, too. [00:02:14] Vince Menzione: A lot of folks that are here were at that breakfast, and I thought we’d spend a few moments with you talking about all the exciting things that have been happening at, at Google. I mean the, yeah, the businesses just to, first of all, the numbers were house. Outstanding. Congratulations. [00:02:28] Dai Vu: That’s right. [00:02:28] Vince Menzione: Yep. [00:02:28] Vince Menzione: Really, some really great numbers. Commitments are off the charts. [00:02:32] Dai Vu: Yes. [00:02:32] Vince Menzione: Crazy off the charts. [00:02:33] Dai Vu: Yes. [00:02:34] Vince Menzione: Yes. Uh, and then there’s a lot happening in this little world called ai, which makes a ton of sense. Yep. I was critical about Google in the beginning because you had all the assets, but Microsoft leaned in first. [00:02:45] Vince Menzione: Uh, but now it’s like things have evolved, uh, quite a bit since those first days. Absolutely. In, in November of 2022. So, uh, take us through a little bit. Let’s, let’s go through [00:02:56] Dai Vu: it. Yeah. I could talk for quite a bit of time because obviously we came out next, yeah. At the end of April, and then we had our earnings announced, but shortly thereafter. [00:03:03] Dai Vu: But, but real quick on next, uh, for folks who attended, uh, you know, the way they framed, uh, the discussion was they showed this AI integrated stack, and that’s how they frame the keynote because we position ourselves as being the only vendor that provides this. Fully integrated stack from custom silicon all the way to the apps and agents. [00:03:23] Dai Vu: And a lot of the announcements were, were focused in those areas. Um, uh, I won’t go through the, the long list, but I think the big ones coming out of next were, uh, certainly the eighth generation TPU we announced, so we actually split this into two specialized chips for training and inference. Uh, so that’s, uh, that was a big piece. [00:03:41] Dai Vu: Uh, but the big one that we announced was this, uh, Gemini Enterprise. Uh, agent platform. So think of it as the comprehensive platform for companies to basically build scale, govern and optimize their agents. And of course, once they have that, they can bring that into, uh, what we call a Gen Gemini enterprise app, which is really the front door for AI for. [00:04:03] Dai Vu: All customers and all employees to manage a mix of agents, um, as part of their daily workflow. And, uh, and a big part of it is, you know, certainly they’ll have some custom agents, but we think a lot of the agents will come from the ecosystem. And obviously there was a big announcement around what we’re doing there. [00:04:21] Dai Vu: Um, and in fact, one of the things that’s interesting is this shows the evolution of, of marketplace in our, in our partnership, which is we’ve taken a lot of the marketplace experience. And brought it into Gemini exp uh, Gemini Enterprise app, right? So search, discovery, uh, the ability to invoke agents, uh, in context. [00:04:39] Dai Vu: I think that’s gonna be very powerful as we think about the evolution, uh, of, of go to market. And then the last thing maybe I’ll highlight is this, um, is. 750 million, uh, investment fund that we’re gonna drive with the broad partnership. So this cuts across all partner types, global system integrators, uh, uh, you know, AI, pure plays, uh, ISVs, uh, the big management consultants as well, uh, because we recognize that partners are gonna be critical to drive business transformation with our end customers. [00:05:08] Dai Vu: So we’re investing around things like. Technical enablement, access to our product teams, access to our FDE for deployment engineers, and then a lot of incentives to drive usage and deployment. So, um, so a lot of, a lot of activity and obviously the ecosystem’s gonna be very critical for us to drive that impact’s. [00:05:25] Dai Vu: Fine. And the last thing, I know we’ve going on and on fine, but the last thing I’ll just mention is just on the earnings announcement, uh, Vince touched on the backlog, so people have been tracking Yeah. Two quarters ago. We were 155 billion on the backlog, and then a quarter later we were 240 billion. And then in the last quarter, just recently, 462 billion. [00:05:46] Dai Vu: So obviously that’s a, a massive signal of customer intent, but more importantly, it’s a, it’s, it’s a addressable market for this ecosystem to go after as well. [00:05:54] Vince Menzione: Yeah. Almost a half a trillion dollars. Yes. In commitment. So a lot, a lot of reason why we should be on the marketplace. [00:06:01] Dai Vu: Absolutely. Absolutely. [00:06:02] Vince Menzione: Um, each of these gentlemen have some things to talk about as well, about their companies and the exciting things that have been happening. [00:06:08] Vince Menzione: I’m gonna start, John, I’m gonna start with you because Tackle has, has transformed quite a bit since the last time you were on stage with us. I thought maybe introduce the company. Take us through the transformation and then we’re gonna do the same thing with Sean with his organization. [00:06:21] John Janke: Yeah. Thanks. Uh, thanks Vince. [00:06:23] John Janke: Great to see everybody. Uh, John Yanke, GM of Tackle at App Direct. So the big news there is Tackle was acquired in Q4 by a company called App Direct, and I think the why behind this app, direct Powers, marketplaces, they run 400 marketplaces around the world for telcos, for ISVs, for system integrators, channel partners. [00:06:42] John Janke: And we were talk like, when you build a marketplace and diagnose this, stocking the shelves is actually really hard. Uh, and we were talking to them about how could we connect the dots between the hyperscaler marketplaces, the iscs we support, and these additional routes to market. Uh, and that became more strategic and we ended up joining forces in December. [00:07:00] John Janke: And since then, the other part that’s really hard when you build a marketplace is how do you generate demand? Uh, so four weeks ago we acquired a company called Partner Stack. And Partner Stack does affiliate content. They have an affiliate content platform that allows you to connect with 150,000 content providers to be able to start to tell your story to drive leads to. [00:07:23] John Janke: Marketplace. So we think there is a tremendous opportunity to continue. We’re in the earliest days. I think the, you know, Jay, I was with Jay at Channel Partners a few weeks ago and he is like, we under called it, he didn’t say this on stage yesterday, but he is like, uh, the 82% growth. He’s like, we totally under called it. [00:07:40] John Janke: Uh, and I think just listening to dies commit level increase mm-hmm. Reinforces the fact that we’ve under called it. But I also think we’re at this tipping point in the market where all of the new capabilities coming out, we have to all rethink our better together stories. So I think the challenge to all partner leaders, it’s like, how do we. [00:07:58] John Janke: Figure that out. So it’s, it’s a, it’s a fun time. As we transform the way we worked. We wrote the first helping people kind of list, launch and sell through the marketplaces. And now to be able to take that to the next level to hopefully unlock the next a hundred billion of marketplace throughput. [00:08:13] Vince Menzione: And are we at a hundred billion? [00:08:15] Vince Menzione: ’cause that was the number, right? [00:08:16] John Janke: I mean that’s, that’s, that’s the number that’s talked about. I mean, we’re seeing the data signals we see, I mean, we will process 20 billion plus this year. Uh, and that number’s growing faster than Jay’s stated number. So I think we’re excited to see where this year lands. [00:08:30] Vince Menzione: We’ve come a long way from three years ago and we all got on stage and talked about marketplaces together. Right. It’s been, it’s been amazing. And then Sean, let’s talk about DBT. You’ve had some excitement. I know some things maybe we can’t even talk about yet on stage. [00:08:43] Shawn Toldo: Uh, yeah, go ahead. [00:08:44] Vince Menzione: No, I was saying I, I could, I’ll pre-announce things, but No, I’m just, uh, tell, tell us about DBT for those who don’t know in the room, sure. [00:08:49] Vince Menzione: Mean Yeah, that might help. [00:08:51] Shawn Toldo: So, uh, Sean Todo, I lead the partner business at DBT. I’ve been here about 18 months. Um, DBT really started as an open source tool. That help data engineers be successful in SQL transformation with cloud data warehouses? Right. And so back even to the Redshift days now into what I would call more the BigQuery, snowflake, Databricks fabric led days, um, DBT is the tool of choice amongst the data engineering community in terms of how they wanna drive SQL transformation. [00:09:21] Shawn Toldo: And so more recently, we kind of jumped into this kind of paid world. Which is why we needed to bring in additional experience leadership around go to market product, sales, et cetera. And so when I walked in the door, one of the things I noticed really quickly was we were running on AWS, which was great. [00:09:40] Shawn Toldo: We were doing some AWS marketplace stuff. We were running on Azure in Europe only. And one of my first strategies was we have to be everywhere, right customer. We have to meet customers where they are. And so we, uh, made some major investments to be on Google Cloud platform to then be able to really take advantage of marketplace, to then really be able to take advantage of the co-sell opportunities that exist in the field from a day, day-to-day AI perspective with Google. [00:10:07] Shawn Toldo: And it has been a hell of a ride. We launched on, uh, Google Marketplace in July of last year. We went to Google next and we were Google Partner of the Year. Wow. For data and analytics in a very rapid way. We’re now in three, uh, data centers around the, the world. So we’re here in the us, we’re in Frankfurt, we’re in uh, uh, UK as well. [00:10:30] Shawn Toldo: And so it’s been a pleasure to work with D and the broader team. Because the enablement we’ve had and the support we’ve had from that group has really helped our growth be up and to the right. The data point I would give is that when I walked in the door, we were 10% of our business from an A RR perspective was transacting through marketplace. [00:10:48] Shawn Toldo: Last quarter we cracked 40%. Whoa. We will be at north of 50, uh, next quarter. [00:10:53] Dai Vu: Wow. [00:10:54] Shawn Toldo: The other piece that Vince was talking about is we’re getting ready to merge with a company called Five Tran. And so there will be a new company name at some point down the road. Uh, pay attention on June 1st for a public announcement around that merger. [00:11:06] Shawn Toldo: Uh, but we’re really looking forward to what we’re gonna be able to do with folks like DI and the Google team as well as others in the ecosystem. Um, ’cause I think in this data world that we’ve played for so long. This trusted foundational element of data and what it’s gonna mean to context in the AI world. [00:11:23] Shawn Toldo: We’re in a very interesting place to really continue our growth rate at a high level. [00:11:28] John Janke: Yeah, that maybe just a comment something there. Start there. I think we, we used to hear people say we wanted to be strategic with cloud, go to market and get to say 10 or 20% of revenue. I think this like 40, 50%. Yeah. Th that’s where people are setting the bar these days. [00:11:43] John Janke: Yeah. So the numbers are getting really crazy. Yeah. Uh, and people are showing up and being like, I have to go big. Mm-hmm. So a huge change over the last few years. [00:11:52] Vince Menzione: Yep. What’s the experience you’re seeing as well? I mean, it, it was a huge amount of buzz at next. [00:11:57] Dai Vu: Yeah. I mean, so interestingly, um, you know, typically when, when people get started on the, on the marketplace in Cosal journey, I always try to caution them and say, this is, uh, this is like a multi-year. [00:12:07] Dai Vu: Yeah. Uh, process. You have to be very intentional. You have to invest. It’s not gonna be a thing where you just list and, and, and, and, and, and sort of this channel opens up. So in some ways, Sean is describing an acceleration that is not common, right? Uh, so they’ve done, we’ve done some amazing things together and we hope to keep that acceleration going. [00:12:22] Vince Menzione: What does that require, by the way? Is it engineering resource? I mean, there’s, I talk about executive commitment and maniacal focus. Yeah. But it’s all those things, right? [00:12:29] Shawn Toldo: Well, all of it. But we went to a QBR in Austin, and I put up a slide and I said, we have to do this. And everybody in our ETE agreed. So when you have a chief financial officer that’s bought into the partner business. [00:12:43] Shawn Toldo: Yeah. And I guess qualifying coming into this role at this company, I qualified the C-level staff. Uh, like are they really serious about partner or not? And it’s one of the reasons I took the role. So I think executive commitment was one thing. I think the second thing is we were really well supported, um, by the Google team across the board, right? [00:13:02] Shawn Toldo: Yeah. So folks, Indy’s team that we would work with regularly on, these are the things you need to do to have an effective marketplace offering. Here’s what you need to do operationally with folks like John and team and others that are in the market, right? That helped us a ton to be able to scale. And then the other thing that we did is we changed comp. [00:13:20] Shawn Toldo: So from our VP of sales levels down, we have a 5% kicker for everything that goes through marketplace. [00:13:26] Vince Menzione: Hear [00:13:26] Shawn Toldo: that everyone. So as soon as we incented the sales team, I love that, right? We, we created the foundation on the partner side, but then from top down on the sales side, they were all in. And as a result of that, the question would become, okay, which marketplace stage two sales cycle are we gonna go use? [00:13:42] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:13:43] Shawn Toldo: Who’s the right partner to go partner with? And then my team is reaching out to make sure that co-sell connection happens. [00:13:48] Vince Menzione: That is such a best practice, Sean, to, because there is, as a seller out in the field and we talk about, you talk to John, talks about rev ops all the time. But getting rev ops eng getting the field engaged in the right way. [00:14:01] Vince Menzione: ’cause it feels like it’s more work for them. ’cause they have to think, they have to have more conversations with their customer about their cloud commitments and things like that. Mm-hmm. And then getting them incentive to do the right things. The right behavior. [00:14:12] John Janke: Yeah. It’s a strategy process. People, technology problem. [00:14:17] John Janke: Yeah. It’s not just some flip API automation, go list something if you don’t like that top down view. I think the other thing. Like there’s a, there’s a theme in startups where VCs fund second time founders. I think Sean and team have done this before and they took a lot of learnings over the years and reapplied them, which I think helps them go faster. [00:14:36] John Janke: It’s like that second time. Yeah. Second time cloud go to market Founder theme. [00:14:41] Vince Menzione: Yeah. Yeah. Um, so we could talk about the platform and all the changes there on the. The, the commitments and everything. Mm-hmm. Uh, what separates ISPs generating real incremental revenue on your, in your marketplace? What, what do you see? [00:14:58] Dai Vu: Yeah, so I mean, I, I think there are a couple things. Number one is, uh, the, the foundation has to be, uh, this better together story, uh, with Google Cloud. Um, so this idea that what, you know, what do you bring, what does the Google platform bring and how does that drive impact with customers? And I think this is the reason why Sean and DBT Labs has been very effective. [00:15:16] Dai Vu: ’cause our field recognized they, they can recognize that better together story and communicate it to their customers. So I think that’s the foundation. For everything. Right. And I think as you get started, uh, you know, we do tell partners that they probably need to lean in a little bit, uh, in terms of focus, uh, you know, pick a vertical, a customer segment, um, you know, a geography where they’re particularly strong and, you know, get that momentum going. [00:15:39] Dai Vu: And once you do that, the field knows about it and starts to pull you into deals. Um, so I think that’s the other big opportunity. And then the other thing I just mentioned. Which, uh, the panel already touched on, which is be very intentional around all the things you need to do to invest. Whether it’s like, uh, you know, the business functional alignment, uh, the policies around like, uh, pricing and, and comp, uh, making sure you have the operational capabilities. [00:16:02] Dai Vu: These are all things everyone has to do to get to that. First five to 10 deals, and then 10, 20, 30% of your business through marketplace. And not to, not to top you Sean, but our very top partners are driving 80 to 90% of their business on marketplace. And in fact, some of these partners are actually only marketplace first, uh, uh, because they started out that way. [00:16:21] Dai Vu: Obviously it’s the bigger challenge if you have an existing channel, you’re trying to shift that. But, uh, the aspiration to be more marketplace focus, uh, is up there. [00:16:28] Shawn Toldo: So I just set a new goal for the business plan for me. So that’s exciting. I love it. Looking forward to seeing you in six months on that. [00:16:35] Shawn Toldo: It’s good. [00:16:36] Vince Menzione: I love [00:16:37] Dai Vu: it. Work together on that. [00:16:38] Vince Menzione: Well, di I’m just gonna add, add this because I, I got to see operationally with some of the things you do. Mm-hmm. You, you have an overlay organization. [00:16:45] Dai Vu: Yes. Yes. [00:16:46] Vince Menzione: And so you put accelerants in place within your own organization Yeah. To drive the ISVs into the, into the lines of business. [00:16:54] Vince Menzione: Right. You have, you, you do some of that to accelerate. [00:16:57] Dai Vu: Yeah, I mean, I think, I think this is somewhat unique. I don’t, I don’t wanna speak to the other [00:17:00] Shawn Toldo: hyperscalers, [00:17:01] Dai Vu: but we do have, um, uh, you gotta know the field roles, right? [00:17:04] Shawn Toldo: Yeah. So [00:17:04] Dai Vu: obviously at Google Cloud in the regions, we have, uh, ISV sales specialists who are effectively quoted on marketplace revenue, right? [00:17:12] Dai Vu: So they’re a hundred percent focused on that. And, uh, in addition to that, uh, we also have these, uh, co-sell teams, partner teams where, you know, opportunistically if there’s an opportunity, uh, in a, in a, in a particular area. This team is responsible for connecting the regional sales leadership, uh, the regional, uh, sales teams with, with the partner on the opportunity. [00:17:32] Dai Vu: So there’s a lot of things we’re doing to sort of accelerate that. And of course, the foundation for all this is, you know, our, our, you know, registering deals. And as you definitely get started on that, it’s very important to be very mindful around when you register deals. Uh, be very clear around what the ask and the engagement is with the field reps. [00:17:51] Dai Vu: But once you have that going and get the right rhythm, it becomes sort of a natural way to sort of register all your deals and get that engagement. And then, um, and then maybe the last thing I would say is it isn’t always the sales specialists. It’s, you know, the FSR, our field sales rep as well as our customer engineers are also very motivated. [00:18:08] Dai Vu: To work, uh, with, uh, with our partners because they know that this, you know, whether it be solution completeness or it’s part of a bigger workload or helps unlock greenfield opportunity, they really are motivated to engage with the partners. [00:18:21] Vince Menzione: Nice. [00:18:22] Shawn Toldo: Yeah. I’ll just add, I’ll just add to that statement too. I think, um, it’s one thing to have a story as it relates to. [00:18:30] Shawn Toldo: Google Cloud and what you do with marketplace. It’s another thing to have a story in terms of how you impact data and analytics in our world. And there’s a set of specialist sellers inside of Google mm-hmm. That really care about us because we drive a lot faster consumption of big query. And our ability to tell that story across the world effectively has really created a pull now. [00:18:54] Shawn Toldo: And so I, I would say it’s almost, you know, back to, you know, being 12 years at Microsoft and watching kind of that. Phase and how that went. As we went to the cloud and we picked specialty areas, um, Google is doing that as well and they’re doing it extremely fast in a very, very productive way with partners. [00:19:12] Shawn Toldo: And so, you know, I’ll get comments from like Levi who runs west in north region for us, and he’s a, he was at Google next and he was like, I, I gotta, I, I just gotta go to bed. I’m tired. Like we wore him out over two days with their sales team and gave him a host of follow ups and actions related to specific sales areas as well as specific accounts. [00:19:34] Shawn Toldo: And I think that’s the other thing that, um, Google’s done a good job of, but we’ve pushed and we’ve had to work really hard to earn that seat at the table. To help make those people successful from a comp perspective inside of Google as well. [00:19:45] John Janke: Yeah, and this is a huge failure zone for partners with the clouds because they think enablement’s a one and done thing. [00:19:51] John Janke: Like I did a training for the field and I told them the better together story. That doesn’t work. Like you have to literally. Have consistency around this message every day. Oftentimes you need experts who can partner with your reps to give them the confidence. ’cause they may be able to ask the first line question, but someone asks a follow up and they fold up ’cause they know your product. [00:20:11] John Janke: That’s right. They don’s don’t understand all of the nuances of Google and the clouds and the questions that may come back. But if you do that well, it is a huge unlock. [00:20:20] Vince Menzione: Talk about the coaching you provided on the tackle side of that as well and kind of helping. Through this maturity model? [00:20:26] John Janke: Yeah. I mean we, we, over the years, I mean we started as a pure SaaS company and over the years our customers would consistently ask us for more help and we would struggle to figure out how to do that, and we had to invest in services and we actually acquired a company. [00:20:42] John Janke: Five years ago now, that was the foundation. Aaron Feiger, who’s in the room. The core consulting was the foundation of our services business. And that continues to evolve with us. And you know, we see customers at scale saying, I wanna operate my cloud, go-to market really consistently, and I want you to do all the backend operations so my teams can be outselling our products, selling the better together value with Google and others, and not have to figure out how to run the machinery. [00:21:09] John Janke: So we’ve invested a lot there. We have services around strategy, like how to help people think about their business strategy and translate it into a better together story and able to get executive buy-in. And then we have coaching, which is really a phone, a friend, because I think these things get complicated. [00:21:24] John Janke: And I had a customer who was doing the largest deal in their company history. It was the end of the quarter and it was Friday, and they’re like, this is going to be the most complex transaction we’ve ever done and we have no idea how to do it. Our team gets on the phone with them, they work through, what are you selling? [00:21:40] John Janke: How are you selling it? Is your listing set up the right way? Can we actually create all the offers? In a way you have confidence to execute. ’cause those are failure modes. You try to build a cloud, go to market business, and you mess up the largest deal in the company. On the last day of the quarter, uh, that’s something you can’t recover from. [00:21:55] John Janke: So we try to really wrap support around our customers to help them have the confidence to grow. [00:22:02] Vince Menzione: Di you’ve seen tremendous growth in marketplace. Mm-hmm. We don’t publish the numbers specifically. Yeah. We kind of try to figure it out on the back end, but [00:22:09] Dai Vu: Yep. [00:22:09] Vince Menzione: I know you’re accelerated. Your, your marketplace numbers are astounding. [00:22:13] Dai Vu: Yes. I can share some numbers, if that’s [00:22:15] Vince Menzione: okay. Please. Yeah, let’s go. [00:22:18] Dai Vu: So, um. I would say that for a few years now, we’ve been talking about growth. So we’ve been consistently, uh, you know, north of a hundred percent year over year growth. Uh, for the last few years we’ve been processing, uh, what I say, uh, billions of dollars, uh, annually and, uh, uh, millions of transactions. [00:22:36] Dai Vu: And again, that’s for a few years now. Now for 24 to 25, that full year we also doubled. Wow. Uh, which is, uh, which is amazing when you think about the scale in which we operate. But more importantly, if you look at specific category areas, right? So, you know, historically, marketplace has always cater to, uh, those solution pillars that are tied to cloud migrations, like, uh, like security and data and analytics. [00:22:59] Dai Vu: And those continue to be very strong areas for us. But the biggest growth area is, uh, is in the areas of business app. So obviously, you know, the, the ServiceNow workday, uh, Salesforce of the world, as well as the AI category. So one number that we threw out next was 18 x. Year over year growth for the AI category. [00:23:17] Dai Vu: Wow. So in one year now, a lot of it is models, right? So foundational models with our, with our ecosystem. But a lot of that is around agents. So this whole agent go to market model is gonna be, continue to grow and it’s gonna be a huge focus area for, for the coming years. [00:23:32] Vince Menzione: Fantastic. Yeah. Fantastic growth. [00:23:34] Shawn Toldo: Yeah, and, and I’ll add, Diane and I talked about this at Google next. This is a. Very complex thing for DBT, where today we sell seats. [00:23:42] Vince Menzione: Mm-hmm. Yeah. [00:23:43] Shawn Toldo: To data engineers. [00:23:44] Yeah. [00:23:44] Shawn Toldo: And now we have all these agentic things that are hitting our engine. And di and I are talking and we’re like, okay, so how does this work in an ag agentic marketplace? [00:23:54] Shawn Toldo: Yeah. Kind of a scenario. And what should we build? Where should we play it? ’cause we’re gonna spin the meter in a different way, so to speak. [00:24:01] Dai Vu: Yep. [00:24:01] Shawn Toldo: And so candidly, we got stuff to figure out related to that. Um, I think what’s been fascinating for DBT is our partner ecosystem changed overnight. So now it’s like I talked to x.ai on Monday. [00:24:15] Shawn Toldo: Mm-hmm. We got time with open AI on Thursday and we have a call with Anthropic and our, uh, CEO and co-founder and uh, chief Product Officer next week. [00:24:26] Vince Menzione: Mm. [00:24:27] Shawn Toldo: We don’t have anybody managing those partners. [00:24:29] Vince Menzione: Right. [00:24:30] Shawn Toldo: Today our focus is on managing the large, uh, hyperscalers plus Snowflake and, uh, Databricks. [00:24:36] Vince Menzione: Mm-hmm. [00:24:36] Shawn Toldo: And then the SI ecosystem and some tech partners. So we’re having to like, to your point on Agile yesterday. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Like we’re having to change our strategy, operating model and organizational model to support that. And candidly, we don’t have all the answers yet, so we have a lot of things to figure out fast, which is a little bit scary. [00:24:54] Shawn Toldo: And challenging, but it’s also a huge opportunity we have to kind of embrace and get into. Yeah. [00:24:59] Vince Menzione: And they’re figuring out as well. ’cause they’re, they’re new to partnering as well. Yeah. As organizations [00:25:03] John Janke: and these AI agents. I think to demystify for a lot of people, and what Sean said is totally right. [00:25:08] John Janke: They’re disrupting everyone’s business model. But in reality from a marketplace standpoint, they’re metered SaaS. This is a thing that’s existed for a long time. Yeah. They look like product-led growth products. There is a lot of patterns around how product-led growth products work in marketplace. Mm-hmm. [00:25:24] John Janke: But you have to bring your business strategy, your product and pricing strategy to those two categories. Metered SaaS and product-led growth. Put that all together to get cross-functional alignment. So we are seeing like. A lot of people get tripped up here and it really does go back to more of the company strategy, product strategy questions, and a lot of partner leaders are not in the room for those conversations. [00:25:48] John Janke: So I think at, at this point in time, as you see big pivots with the partners to go all in on agents, you have to go elevate. Those discussions to be like, what is our plan here? ’cause I, I mean, pricing and packaging will be the thing that trips almost everyone up. [00:26:02] Dai Vu: If I could, if I just build on what John John mentioned, um, so I do agree. [00:26:06] Dai Vu: P it looks a lot like POG, but, uh, but the difference I think is POG has. More historically been in like the data and developer space, now it’s like the general business user, right? So this idea that you want a business user to be able to search and discover, um, agents that could actually be part of their like everyday workflow is going to be very critical. [00:26:26] Dai Vu: And uh, you know, I do think that when we think about the ecosystem building agents. Uh, you know, a lot of the ISV partners aren’t necessarily gonna own end-to-end workflows, right? They’ll, they’ll have a very specific, uh, domain and scope area, but you have to enable yourself to be orchestrated and managed by, you know, orchestration agents or, or, or meta agents that are gonna span end, end workflows. [00:26:49] Dai Vu: And sometimes that includes system integrators and, and others who can stitch that, that automation. So I think, I think that’s, that’s one piece of it. But the other area that I think is gonna be different is, um. There’s going to be a lot of agents. I mean, literally you’re gonna have a very fragmented set of, uh, uh, of players, right? [00:27:07] Dai Vu: It’s not just gonna be the incumbents, it’s gonna be a lot of disruptors and, and, and, and startups. And so the, uh, for the incumbents in the room, it is a mandate that you need to, to innovate because if you do not identify and go to like an agent first, go to market model. Uh, you’re gonna be, you know, disintermediated. [00:27:25] Dai Vu: Somebody’s gonna go build an agent that’s going to leverage you as a dumb database. Um, and they’re gonna own the workflow. So you have to, you have to push the, the, the, the limits here. And I think it’s creates a big opportunity for everyone in this room. [00:27:39] John Janke: I’m going off script. I’m curious. Let’s do it. I’m curious on your take on the system integrators. [00:27:44] John Janke: ’cause I think this, this puts like they’re all, a lot of them are creating agents for people and I think that’s turning them almost more into software companies than they’ve ever been. [00:27:53] Dai Vu: They are, and I think they’re, you know, obviously they’re being, uh, impacted from like, you know, typical like, you know, SOW you know, time and materials type type business models. [00:28:02] Dai Vu: But I do think they play a big role because a lot of the system integrators are bringing, um, you know, vertical and business process expertise. And, um, like I said, I said before, a lot of the ISVs are not gonna necessarily have big enough scope in their area to own end-to-end workflows. And that’s really the promise of agents, right? [00:28:20] Dai Vu: You really need. This cognitive, you know, reasoning, planning, executing across end to end workflows. And I think, you know, the system integrators are gonna bring that capability either, either through, you know, these custom, uh, orchestration or meta agents or if they’re able to productize that and bring that to a model, they can also sort of go through the marketplace model as well. [00:28:41] Dai Vu: So who knows is how it’s gonna evolve. But you know, we’ve always been talking about. Marketplace being a broader opportunity for all partner business models. And I think that will extend to not only, uh, you know, traditional sort of, uh, sell and services partners, but also some of these system integrators as well. [00:28:58] Shawn Toldo: If I could comment on that, please. Yeah. I, I was in London two weeks ago and we did an SI partner day. Mm-hmm. We had 25 sis in a room, probably about 50 people. We had no, um, hyperscalers or cloud data warehouse providers. And when we started talking about open data infrastructure. The role that they can play. [00:29:17] Vince Menzione: Mm-hmm. [00:29:18] Shawn Toldo: Cross platform in a cost efficient manner for customers and the advisory orientation of that. They all leaned in and we, we stopped talking and they started talking. [00:29:28] Vince Menzione: Right. [00:29:28] Shawn Toldo: So they’re all facing this kind of same problem, which is actually causing a little bit of a shift, I think, in how they think about, I’m a Databricks partner. [00:29:38] Shawn Toldo: Uh, you sure you wanna do that? [00:29:39] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:29:40] Shawn Toldo: So this, this whole thing that’s kind of evolved in the last six to 12 months, when you kind of pick one horse to ride, I, I would tell you be cautious about what that means. You may pick a horse to lead with mm-hmm. But you’re gonna have to flank yourself a bit in terms of other providers that can help you be successful with that, that that partner you’re gonna roll with. [00:30:00] Vince Menzione: So you’re suggesting data vendor agnostic. [00:30:04] Shawn Toldo: I’m suggesting you really have to think about your strategy. Yeah. Because I think the AI, AI disruption is gonna make you think about that strategy. [00:30:13] John Janke: Yeah, I mean there’s, someone mentioned anthropics First Partner Summit. I was not there, but I’ve heard from a bunch of people were there. [00:30:20] John Janke: You know, they had a hundred partners in the room. 95 of them were system integrators. Five were technology companies, the three Clouds, Databricks and Snowflake. Like if you just think about the, the one of the major disruptors in ai, ISVs, were not in the mix. So I, I think, are they trying to disrupt all of us? [00:30:40] John Janke: Uh, do they need us? And they haven’t figured out how to work with us. I, I think. It’s, it’s, [00:30:44] Vince Menzione: and I’ve heard they only have five people in their partner organization, so I just, it’s, [00:30:49] Shawn Toldo: it’s 11 now, but it’s 11, [00:30:51] Vince Menzione: so it was five [00:30:51] Shawn Toldo: last growing fast in the, in the new company I have 50. So like, to put it in perspective, they have to make some pretty big priority. [00:30:59] John Janke: Yeah. And everyone’s been there a hot second, [00:31:00] Vince Menzione: like, right, exactly. Yeah, they, well, we will talk about the learnings we’ve had over the years, getting to where they need to get to. It’s exciting times. We got a lot to talk about here. Um, I, you know, we have about 15 minutes. I I, I want to kind of gauge, ’cause we could talk, we, we have a few things we could talk about, I could ask about, but I want to see if there’s an, like, an interest in opening up to the room for questions. [00:31:25] Vince Menzione: ’cause I feel like we’ve got a very interesting group here. [00:31:28] Shawn Toldo: You got a hand here? [00:31:29] Vince Menzione: Uh, are there hands that wanna Yeah, there’s some people that wanna ask some questions. So Yeah. We have a mic? Yeah, [00:31:37] Dai Vu: we have [00:31:37] Shawn Toldo: a mic. We, [00:31:37] Vince Menzione: we [00:31:38] Shawn Toldo: got one here. [00:31:38] Vince Menzione: We got one here. One here. Thank you. Sorry we went off script, but [00:31:44] Shawn Toldo: that’s fine. [00:31:45] Vince Menzione: It’s fine. [00:31:45] Dai Vu: Off [00:31:45] Vince Menzione: script. Better is good. [00:31:46] Shawn Toldo: I’m sure you planted the questions outta anyway. It’s okay. We [00:31:48] Vince Menzione: did, we did. [00:31:55] Audience Guest: Okay. All Eva, Sean Lightner, quick question to your, uh, increase on the marketplace, and you said you spiff the salespeople by fifth percent. 5%. Mm-hmm. So, and that obviously drives a very large adoption of, uh, marketplace transactions. How are you accounting for the margin you’re losing on, uh, you know, going through the marketplace? [00:32:14] Audience Guest: And also have you done analysis? I’m sure you have, how much is, uh, shape shifting or shifting from existing versus incremental? [00:32:22] Shawn Toldo: Yeah, it’s a great question. Um, um, lemme make three points. Number one, the backlog statement makes the margin statement not matter. So do you wanna play in that space where a customer’s already bought or not? [00:32:36] Shawn Toldo: Yeah. Or do you wanna force a budget conversation that you have to drive on your own in a direct model? That to me, I think it was 484 4 62 [00:32:43] Dai Vu: 4 6 [00:32:44] Shawn Toldo: 2. [00:32:44] Vince Menzione: That’s new Tam available to you? [00:32:46] Shawn Toldo: Yeah. That, that’s just with one. Right. And we are, we are, uh, running on four marketplaces. So that just increases our tam and makes our, our sellers lives easier. [00:32:55] Shawn Toldo: So on that piece, yes, there’s an expense, but we believe it’s right for growth. So there’s a balance there. Um, I think the, and then the second part of your question again. Sorry, [00:33:05] Vince Menzione: shapeshift. [00:33:05] Shawn Toldo: Oh, shift. We, we actually don’t think we would’ve won the business. So if I go back to our Q4 and I can probably point to three or four deals that went, um, Google Marketplace, we would not have won those deals because we couldn’t have created the budget cycle and that quarter. [00:33:23] Shawn Toldo: To make it happen. Generally a budget cycle is gonna take anywhere from 12 to 15 months. Bingo. Because of the spend that was available to us, we were able to close it in that quarter, and we had the largest Q4 in company history. [00:33:35] Vince Menzione: That is such an important point. I’m sorry. [00:33:37] Dai Vu: Okay. [00:33:38] Vince Menzione: But I, I just wanna, that is such an important point of the budget cycle. [00:33:42] Dai Vu: Yeah. [00:33:43] Vince Menzione: Being a year to a year and a half versus being able to tap into a commitment that’s already been made. Yeah, so I just emphasize that [00:33:51] Dai Vu: I was, I was just gonna add real quick, even, even when we see sort of a, uh, a channel shift renewal, which is, you know, it’s on partner paper and it moves to marketplace as part of the renewals, we do consistently see that the, uh, renewal rates on marketplace and the incremental a CB on the expansion and new opportunities tend to be better when it’s on the platform marketplace than than offline. [00:34:12] Dai Vu: And that’s why partners choose to continue to drive renewals on marketplace at a reduced to rev share. But uh, because they see that that growth, [00:34:20] John Janke: we, we, sorry. [00:34:22] Shawn Toldo: We see that as well. Yeah. And I would also make the statement on our land business, when we go through marketplace, we are two x higher across marketplaces. [00:34:30] Shawn Toldo: We’re three x higher with them. [00:34:32] John Janke: Yeah, I think separate new from renewals and then instrument deeply. [00:34:37] Shawn Toldo: Yeah, [00:34:38] John Janke: go proactively talk to your CFO and your head of rev ops to understand their mindset. Because I was with a billion dollar seller a couple weeks ago, their CFO still creates friction in the process, even though they’re selling a billion dollars through these channels. [00:34:52] John Janke: But when they broke it down, their deals are three times bigger. They do them faster. They use more components of the product, which I thought was a really cool one. So customers who buy this platform, many component platforms through a marketplace, end up using six components of the product. Versus a normal land customer who uses two increases gross in net retention. [00:35:12] John Janke: So you have to get to the point where you have the data and you can tell that story real really clearly to your finance team to get support ’cause that they will trip you up if you don’t get them on board. [00:35:23] Vince Menzione: And you’re saying there’s friction in that company. I’m just kind of curious ’cause a billion dollar company. [00:35:27] John Janke: There’s a billion dollar marketplace seller [00:35:29] Vince Menzione: market marketplace company. That’s what I meant. Yeah. But, but the fact that this, their CFO friction, like, is it, is it because they’re not doing a good enough job or? [00:35:37] John Janke: Uh, in, of educating, I, the root of the question is from this person is, would they win without it? [00:35:44] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:35:45] Shawn Toldo: Oh, and is it worth the three points? [00:35:46] John Janke: Right. It’s, it is And, and I think some pe like to me, it’s the cheapest channel in the world. Yeah. Like with committed budget and people to support you winning. Like the, that formula, the math is so simple. [00:35:57] Shawn Toldo: Yeah. For, for a company of our size to go to like the classic resell ecosystem, I gotta walk in with 30 points. [00:36:02] John Janke: Yeah. [00:36:03] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:36:03] Shawn Toldo: It, it’s an illogical conversation. Outside of public sector and growth, you know, geos around the world. And so I, I’ve been lucky to have a CFO that I haven’t had that challenge with, at least at DBTI should say. [00:36:19] Vince Menzione: Really great insights. I think we have, we have another hand up here. [00:36:28] Audience Guest: Yeah. Thanks Susan. The question is for Dai. Uh, my name is Latif Hamani. I’m the founder of Partner System ai. Um, so what we’ve done is we’ve built a, a co-sell AI agent mm-hmm. That your partners can use to Yeah. Reduce all the friction in the co-sell with you. Uh, the questions that I have is, I guess I should back up, so XAWS Madison with a very large alliances, and then I worked, went on the other side. [00:36:55] Audience Guest: For software companies, and even though I had an operational team, I was spending two to three hours on on the keyboard, right? Mm-hmm. Deal registration, emails that can’t be automated, et cetera. So the question that I have for you is, I’d love for you to validate that. You know, unless you are one of the big companies, one of the big enterprises, if you go to the lower end of the enterprise or the mid market, uh, would you validate that there is a challenge? [00:37:20] Audience Guest: There’s a lot of friction for a smaller company. Mm-hmm. Uh, ’cause these marketplaces are complex. Yeah. The cosell is complex. Uh, that there’s an opportunity to really break down that friction with some automation and ai. [00:37:33] Dai Vu: Yeah, absolutely. So, um, we have already been, uh, part of the journey to remove some of the, uh, the friction as part of that selling and purchasing journey. [00:37:43] Dai Vu: Uh. We’re not quite there yet. But, uh, we’ve done things like we have, uh, you know, private offer APIs. We, uh, we have co-sell, uh, registration automation. Um, you know, we have tools like, uh, propensity to buy, tooling to help, uh, partners do, uh, more targeted efforts. Um, but the a i piece is still coming. Um, so I think, uh, the idea here is that we have launched a number of agents as part of our, um. [00:38:08] Dai Vu: Uh, part of our, uh, Google Cloud Partner network, partner hub. Uh, so these are, uh, agents that are gonna do a bunch of things to help partners as part of their workflow, but we’re gonna extend this to the marketplace and ISV area as well. Uh, so I think there’s a lot of opportunity. So, uh, I know there’s probably a lot of feedback in friction, uh, in, in certain parts. [00:38:29] Dai Vu: So we can, we can go tackle together. [00:38:32] Vince Menzione: Hey. There you go. There was a little [00:38:34] Dai Vu: plug [00:38:34] Shawn Toldo: there for tackle. Exactly. [00:38:37] Dai Vu: Uh, and I wanted, and just to be clear, I want to take a look at it from the end to end, uh, uh, flow, right? It shouldn’t just be just marketplace. It should be all the way from like, you know, top of the funnel, demand generation, all the way to like post transaction follow up. [00:38:51] Dai Vu: So we really need to take a look at, at the, the end, end flows and figure out a way we can remove some of that friction [00:38:56] Vince Menzione: three sense. [00:38:57] Dai Vu: Yeah. [00:38:59] Vince Menzione: Any more questions [00:39:00] Audience Guest: back here? Hey. Hey guys. This, this is a really good discussion. Uh, di this question’s primarily, uh, from, I’m interested in the hyperscaler response. [00:39:09] Audience Guest: Yep. Uh, but all of you, uh, can you talk about the patterns or say more about the patterns between. Um, the consumption of just platform capabilities versus industry workflows. Mm-hmm. And how industry where I, I mean, I, I, my sense is that industry workflows are becoming more [00:39:27] Dai Vu: Yeah. [00:39:28] Audience Guest: Uh, the easier thing for enterprises and SMBs to buy. [00:39:33] Audience Guest: Yeah. Especially SMBs, I think. Um, but say more about those patterns that you’re seeing develop and kind of what is. Uh, who are, where, where are those kind of, where is the demand being driven? Is it, is it, yeah. The search and discover in the marketplace, or is it being led by field sales of mm-hmm. Either GCP or partners? [00:39:55] Dai Vu: Yeah, so let me, I’ll mention a couple, a couple areas where, where it’s growing. So I think number one I mentioned before about some of these large horizontal business apps that we’re partnering with, right? Um, and, uh, and of course the fact that we’re, we’re, we’re transacting them through marketplace is, is a huge. [00:40:14] Dai Vu: Evolution from a few years ago. So who would’ve thought you would be buying like, you know, a hundred million dollars a CB deals, uh, through, through marketplace with like a Salesforce or a ServiceNow workday. But it’s happening now. And to be clear, all these. Horizontal business app. They’re not doing this in a very, you know, opportunistic, transactional way. [00:40:32] Dai Vu: They basically see marketplace and cloud go to market as a strategic growth lever for them. So that’s one big area. So from just a pure large deal perspective. Okay. Then you mentioned before around sort of corporate and SMB. Well, we find that a lot of the big opportunities are mostly around as they scale their business, uh, they’re not necessarily looking for things in the traditional sort of infrastructure space, but they’re looking for, you know, full SaaS applications to help scale their business, right? [00:40:58] Dai Vu: So it would be CRM, finance, hr, these types of solutions to become very attractive for some of this, uh, downstream market. And then lastly, as I mentioned before, which is, uh, when we think about this gentrification and owning, um. Uh, driving, uh, this business process and vertical, the ISVs become very important along with the services partners who bring that domain expertise to drive the end to end workflow. [00:41:25] Dai Vu: So I think that’s gonna be increasingly important. So those are three areas I think we need to watch out for. We. Okay. [00:41:30] John Janke: Maybe one thing, like as the cloud commit grows inside of companies, it’s shifted from being an engineering department, IT department budget line item to a corporate finance budget line item. [00:41:40] John Janke: Typically one of the top five to 10 expenses in a company. So that has shifted. Who is thinking about optimizing? The cloud commit with marketplace contracts. And that opens, that’s really opened up the avenue in addition to like these biz apps, vertical apps players. Yeah. Like having success. So I, I do think even inside your own company, evaluating where your cloud commits are, who owns them and are they thinking about the intersection of marketplace? [00:42:06] John Janke: ’cause I, I think it’s smaller companies, they’re still figuring it out. I run into engineering leaders who still own the commits, uh, but in medium to large companies. Very different. [00:42:16] Vince Menzione: Really good point. Because it, you know this, the optics change dramatically, right? This large commitment is now at the board level, [00:42:23] John Janke: right? [00:42:23] John Janke: And then you do have to teach your sellers as a vertical or business application player how to ask that question. ’cause the first resistance everybody says is, oh my, my person, my stakeholder, we. Manufacturing vertical application provider talking at an event last week, and they’re like, the shop floor manufacturing owner doesn’t know anything about the cloud commit. [00:42:43] John Janke: But if they ask the question, be like, Hey, do you guys have a strategic relationship with Google? Would it be easier to buy our product on the bill? Eight out of 10 times they get a yes. So [00:42:52] Vince Menzione: which is why the 5% comes in And that really accelerates the conversation happening. Yeah. We’ve got three more minutes. [00:43:01] Vince Menzione: Um, if we don’t have any other questions, I ha I have one for each of you really about the maturity model and partners are in the room that are not committed yet, right? We’ve talked about some very significant DBTs doing some incredible things, right? So we, there’s maybe a sense that like we, you, you are working with the be the biggest and the best out there, but what about everyone else that’s in the room that maybe isn’t committed yet? [00:43:23] Vince Menzione: And maybe they’re in motion, but they need some help and advice on what to go do next. What? What would you say die first? [00:43:30] Dai Vu: So they’re early stage, [00:43:31] Vince Menzione: early, early stage or not, they’re not on board yet. They’re not, yeah. They’re not with you yet. [00:43:35] Dai Vu: Yeah. So I’ll, I’ll go back to my earlier comment, which is that as you go into the journey, just be very intentional about what you need to do from an operational, investment people, uh, technology perspective. [00:43:47] Dai Vu: Uh, because it could be, it could be a multi-year journey. Um, uh, so I’d say go into it with the right expectations as opposed to thinking it’s going to be some accelerated six month thing that Sean has been driving here. It’s, he’s the outlier. [00:43:59] Shawn Toldo: But, but the reason for the outlier, [00:44:00] Dai Vu: yeah. [00:44:01] Shawn Toldo: And just to add to the intentional point Yeah. [00:44:02] Shawn Toldo: Is, you know, hire the right people. Right. So, somebody told me a long time ago, uh, hire slow, fire fast. That’s a really, really, really good principle that I take. Mm-hmm. I don’t like the fire part, obviously, but just for context, I, I am very lucky to have a great set of leaders that we were able to add people in. [00:44:24] Shawn Toldo: When I walked in the door, we had a person that was leading the Snowflake and AWS partnership. I had nobody on GCPI had nobody on Microsoft. I had nobody on Databricks. And then we made prioritization decisions on where we’re gonna go next. And so we hired people that had the experience and could drive the outcome in the right way. [00:44:43] Shawn Toldo: But we were very thoughtful about when we made those decisions on a quarterly basis, not a daily basis. So who you’re gonna bet on and then who you’re gonna put in the seat to make that bet come to life, I think is a really important thing as well. [00:44:58] John Janke: Yeah. [00:44:58] Vince Menzione: John, you worked with the be biggest and the best out there, so Yeah, sorry. [00:45:01] John Janke: Well, I think there’s the, like there’s the bottoms up and the tops down. Like seven years ago, this was all bottoms up. It was a partner leader who thought launching a marketplace would be good and they would go figure out how to do some deals and then sell their way up. Today there’s a lot more top down where people get it. [00:45:17] John Janke: But you can evaluate top down pretty fast. ’cause if you go talk to your CEO, you talk to your head of product, you talk to your CFO, and they have an allergic reaction to these concepts. You know, you have to go bottoms up. But there also are success story examples in every single ISV category that exists. [00:45:33] John Janke: Like this is not just security and data and DevOp like the, I think the ServiceNow. Salesforce workday. Examples are really great, like the marketing tech examples, more and more business of vertical apps every day. So I do think you can look at those people who’ve been successful. Maybe they’re your competitors, maybe they’re people you aspire to be and reference them as you’re trying to figure out how to do top down. [00:45:55] John Janke: But like you need both. You can’t win long term unless you get top down and bottom up aligned. [00:46:01] Shawn Toldo: And, and when I, when I would go ask for resourcing, I would always get the question, do, could you go faster with more? And I’d say, no. Gimme the one or two humans here, let me go prove it out and I’ll come back. [00:46:13] Shawn Toldo: So there’s a little bit of a strategy in doing that, that you’re gonna get more over time when you’re, you know, very measured in how you go ask for investment and resource. And so I would just add that point also. [00:46:27] Vince Menzione: Was, was hiring a significant component of your executive commitment, Sean? I mean, [00:46:33] Shawn Toldo: yes. So when I walked in the door at DBT, we had eight people in the partner organization. [00:46:38] Shawn Toldo: Today we have 25, and that was 18 months ago. But that did not happen. I didn’t go in and ask for, you know, that 16 people. Right. I asked over time in a very measured way with, you know, the programs and strategy team, like, what can we also support? You don’t want to bring somebody in to go do something and you don’t have the programs and operations side to support it ’cause they’ll fail. [00:47:01] Shawn Toldo: So we’ve been very thoughtful about how we’ve done that as well. [00:47:04] Vince Menzione: Die from you. I know you had something. [00:47:06] Dai Vu: No, no, no. I, I was good. [00:47:08] Vince Menzione: What is the one thing that people in this room need to go better and differently? Is there one, is there one specific thing other than what we’ve already discussed, did we miss anything? [00:47:16] Dai Vu: No, I would just, the whole identification. So obviously, uh, identifying this is not just like slapping a chat bot, but more around thinking all the things we talked about, product commercials, but also go to market where it’s agent first, where you can surface your agent in a workflow like Gemini Enterprise app. [00:47:34] Dai Vu: That’s gonna drive high alignment with how we work and go to market with Google. [00:47:38] Vince Menzione: Awesome. [00:47:38] Dai Vu: Yeah. [00:47:40] Vince Menzione: Wow. Good stuff. Yeah. Very good session. [00:47:44] Dai Vu: Thank [00:47:44] Vince Menzione: you guys. What do you think? Everyone? Thank you very much. [00:47:47] Shawn Toldo: Thanks for listening to the Ultimate Partner Podcast. [00:47:50] Vince Menzione: If today’s conversation resonated, share it with a partner leader in your network. [00:47:55] Vince Menzione: Subscribe where you listen, and head over to the ultimate partner.com. For show notes related content and the resources for this episode. And if you haven’t already, now’s the time to register for the Ultimate Partner Live Event in Reston, Virginia, [00:48:11] John Janke: October 26th through October 28th. [00:48:14] Vince Menzione: Until next time, keep showing up in the rooms that matter because being in the room changes everything [00:48:22] I.