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Don’t get left behind on AWS! Don’t get left behind on AWS! Subscribe to our Newsletter: https://theultimatepartner.com/ebook-subscribe/ Check Out UPX: https://theultimatepartner.com/experience/ In this episode, we go deep inside the AWS Marketplace with Louise Strandoo, who spent nearly a decade building AWS’s marketplace business from the ground up and now leads partner development for AWS’s data, analytics, and storage practice. Louise unpacks COST, the six-pillar framework her team built by studying what actually separates hypergrowth startups and billion-dollar sellers from partners who treat marketplace as a side project. We break down why operational excellence has to be in place before you ever enable your sales team, why executive sponsorship from the top of the organization is what keeps a marketplace strategy from collapsing into a single point of failure, and why product-led growth is no longer optional now that buyers, and increasingly AI agents, expect to try, buy, and deploy software without waiting on a human to close the loop, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwyAP7yVy3I Key Takeaways Success on AWS Marketplace requires a comprehensive framework like COST, not just a simple checklist of tasks. Your product must be something customers actually want to buy, not a subpar offering used merely to test the waters. Operational excellence is required to ensure your marketplace motion has the sustainability to scale globally. Product-Led Growth (PLG) is essential for enabling frictionless procurement, especially as buyers shift toward agent-driven AI solutions. Executive sponsorship is critical; building a strategy without leadership buy-in will prevent it from gaining real traction. Sales alignment ensures reps are appropriately compensated and friction is removed, preventing them from avoiding marketplace transactions. If you're ready to lead through change, elevate your business, and achieve extraordinary outcomes through the power of partnership—this is your community. At Ultimate Partner® we want leaders like you to join us in the Ultimate Partner Experience – where transformation begins. Key Tags AWS Marketplace framework, COST methodology, product-led growth, agentic procurement, hyperscaler ecosystem, operational excellence, revenue friction, private offers, co-sell acceleration, strategic collaboration agreements, resilient architecture, cloud commitments, organizational transformation Key Tags Louise Strandoo Audio Episode [00:00:00] Louise Strandoo: Salespeople, rightly so. They don’t wanna introduce something that’s going to add a complexity to the deal. They’re like, why would AWS wanna be involved? [00:00:11] Vince Menzione: You can feel it happening. The ecosystem is shifting beneath us, the way Hyperscalers are partnering, how AI’s remaking the channel and what it means to win in 2026. [00:00:22] Louise Strandoo: Welcome to the Ultimate Partner Podcast. I’m Vince Menzi. Own [00:00:26] Vince Menzione: your host. And each week I sit down with leaders at the intersection of technology, partnerships and outcomes. The voices shaping how ecosystems actually work. We talk about what’s real, what’s changing, and what it takes to lead in this era where the partner channel isn’t just part of the strategy. [00:00:45] Vince Menzione: It is the strategy because being in the room changes everything. Let’s start. [00:00:53] Louise Strandoo: And Louise Strand, come on out. Come on up. Uh, our first, our first [00:00:59] Vince Menzione: Amazon executive at, at this session. Not our first ever, but our first at this session. [00:01:06] Louise Strandoo: Happy to be [00:01:07] Vince Menzione: thrilled to have you. I, why don’t we sit down on an, um, I’ll have you sit here and, you know, you get, take one of the ultimate partner pillows with you since you’re a first assignment attend. [00:01:15] Louise Strandoo: Wonderful. [00:01:16] Vince Menzione: Uh, [00:01:16] Louise Strandoo: good [00:01:17] Vince Menzione: to hear. So great to have you. I thought maybe we’d start, maybe, uh, with you, uh, explaining your role. Then we can start talking about costs, which is the subject is like near and dear, and we’ll talk about that, about what that is. But I want to keep people on their pins of their seats right now. [00:01:33] Vince Menzione: So tell us, tell us more about you and your role and your journey at AWS. [00:01:37] Louise Strandoo: Yeah, well thanks for having me. Good to see everybody in the room. Um, so my name’s Louise. I have spent the better part of the last nine and a half years at AWS and I spent almost that whole time, probably around eight years. In AWS Marketplaces business Development organization, um, I joined to help startups figure out how to scale their business on the marketplace. [00:02:00] Louise Strandoo: And from there, I grew into a number of different roles, helped ISVs figure out how to scale their marketplace business of all sizes. Um, I worked with some of our top sellers on the marketplace, figure out how to really scale their revenue through the marketplace. Today I am actually the lead of the data analytics and storage partner development team. [00:02:20] Louise Strandoo: Nice. Within the US Tech partnerships organization. So it’s been a really cool transition to go from like all marketplace focused. And throughout that time, marketplace kind of became the center of partnerships. Yep. Within our partner program. Um, so now I manage PDMs and partners and we still talk a lot about marketplace. [00:02:40] Louise Strandoo: Also everything else that we do as a partner. So it’s, um, it’s been a fun journey. [00:02:45] Vince Menzione: And we were talking about this earlier, like you started with Marketplace and then moved out where all the other organizations started from partnership and moved into marketplace. Mm-hmm. Almost the other up. And you have built a framework costs [00:02:59] Louise Strandoo: mm-hmm. [00:03:00] Vince Menzione: Characteristics of successful sellers. And I have a set of operating principles about successful partnering. So I’m really intrigued about this conversation. I was hoping you could walk us through it, like what are these characteristics and where do most partners fall short in terms of characteristics? [00:03:18] Louise Strandoo: Yeah, so, um, like all really good things, cost was an effort that I built alongside a bunch of other really smart people. And we started to have this conversation about what does, uh, you know, what does success look like? We we’re focused in the beginning, in my marketplace journey on getting. Partners to sell on the marketplace, getting them to list and adopt the features. [00:03:41] Louise Strandoo: And of course they’re like, why would we do this? And we’re like, that’s a great question. Let’s figure out like really what the why of this whole thing is. And as we started to get partners who were startups and some of our really large partners activated, we started to see all kinds of value and how marketplace was helping co-sell and all this good stuff. [00:03:59] Louise Strandoo: And we needed to figure out like how do we identify what is like the lightning in the bottle? So we looked across some of the most, uh, hypergrowth companies on the marketplace. Mm-hmm. Some of those startups that had really propelled into major success stories. And then some of those like really scaled enterprise sellers, the one [00:04:17] Vince Menzione: that got to a billion dollars. [00:04:18] Louise Strandoo: Exactly. The market, our billion dollar market market. Billion dollar sellers. Right? Yep. And we looked at what are the common characteristics that all of those partners embody. Yes. And how do we kind of. Define a framework that is not a checklist because a lot of us were doing that at the time. Here’s all the things that you should do to make it work well. [00:04:34] Louise Strandoo: It doesn’t really work from partner to partner. Everyone has a unique go-to market strategy. Yeah, so we developed costs to kind of be this overarching tool that partners can use to say, do we have the right kind of fundamental approach to how we’re going to market with AWS and how we’re thinking about the marketplace. [00:04:51] Louise Strandoo: Do we have the right tools to like bring our overall go-to-market strategy to A AWS and to the marketplace so we’re not doing two separate things. That was sort of the genesis of the idea. Makes [00:05:02] Vince Menzione: a lot of sense. [00:05:04] Louise Strandoo: So, um, the characteristics, there’s six of ’em. I won’t go into detail about every single one. [00:05:11] Louise Strandoo: Oh, [00:05:11] come [00:05:11] Vince Menzione: on. We’ll do that one. Yeah. We have some people in the room that are gonna be intrigued by this. Go ahead. [00:05:16] Louise Strandoo: So, um, the first pillar is. Partnership with AWS, you can’t do marketplace without figuring out what, what’s your overall partner strategy, right? So how are you using the partner programs to drive differentiation in your business? [00:05:30] Louise Strandoo: Yep. How are you using our funding programs to elevate the parts of your business that you really wanna accelerate? Um, and how are you thinking about your partner strategy with AWS overall? [00:05:40] Vince Menzione: Interesting. [00:05:41] Louise Strandoo: The second one is, uh, selection on AWS marketplace. [00:05:44] Vince Menzione: Product selection. [00:05:45] Louise Strandoo: That’s right. [00:05:45] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:05:46] Louise Strandoo: You gotta have a product on the marketplace that your customers wanna buy. [00:05:49] Louise Strandoo: I think the biggest thing that partners have done wrong over the years is they think, let’s do crawl, walk, run. We’re gonna put something up there that we’re not, you know, really excited about, but we’ll see how it does and then we’ll try to invest from there. [00:06:03] Vince Menzione: Mm-hmm. [00:06:04] Louise Strandoo: If you put something out there that nobody knows how to sell, then that you’re not excited about, your customers aren’t probably excited about it either. [00:06:09] Louise Strandoo: There’s no reason it’s gonna do well in the marketplace. [00:06:10] Vince Menzione: Yeah. It makes no sense to me. [00:06:12] Louise Strandoo: Yep. So you gotta have something good. You gotta have your marquee product, and then you wanna use features that are gonna help buyers actually access that product in a way that’s frictionless. Yeah. The third one is operational excellence. [00:06:25] Louise Strandoo: So that’s looking at how are you structuring your organization and investing in all the right processes that you need to scale the business. Reporting at a global scale, understanding how to recognize revenue and thinking about all of the in-between moments of. Being on the marketplace, creating an offer, how does your sales team gonna get in touch with you when you need to send that offer out? [00:06:47] Louise Strandoo: And how are you making sure that an alliance person isn’t trying to find an outlet in a random corner of an airport to send a private offer to a customer? All of that structural stuff to make the, the motion scale. [00:07:00] Vince Menzione: So we’re talking product led growth versus. One off or [00:07:04] Louise Strandoo: all of it? All of it. Okay. No matter what kind of partner you are, you have to have operational excellence. [00:07:08] Louise Strandoo: Yeah. To make sure that your marketplace and your partnership motion has sustainability and scale. The next two, I’ll kind of go through fast. There is, yeah. Um, partner commitment to marketplace revenue. So what do you really want Drive from a revenue perspective, right. How do you get your leaders bought in on that, and how do you set a goal that dictates what you’re doing? [00:07:28] Louise Strandoo: And then how do you define sales alignment? From a structural perspective to say we’re gonna remove friction that could get in the way of the field selling this thing. We’re gonna remove things that are, um, negating reps from wanting to go through marketplace because it’s impacting their comp. Yeah. Or it’s really hard. [00:07:46] Louise Strandoo: All of that kind of structural stuff goes into the sales alliance. [00:07:49] Vince Menzione: So there’s, yeah. I wanted to take this apart a little bit too, if you don’t mind. No [00:07:52] Louise Strandoo: problem. [00:07:53] Vince Menzione: Because I think about this a lot. So when you start talking about an organization, you’re talking about what this, we’ll call it an ISV Sure. Or an si, but. [00:08:00] Vince Menzione: You know, ISPs primarily is where it all started. They need to get their internal operational excellence. Right, exactly. Which means their, their ops piece. Yep. And their sales execution. They’re gonna to market all those things. The sales alignment side. Is that their sales teams [00:08:18] Louise Strandoo: correct. [00:08:19] Vince Menzione: Are compensated properly so that they don’t go around the systems. [00:08:22] Vince Menzione: Exactly right. They’re aligned. They’re aligned to go drive the right results. [00:08:25] Louise Strandoo: Exactly. [00:08:26] Vince Menzione: Because they’ve made commitments as well. [00:08:28] Louise Strandoo: Yeah. [00:08:28] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:08:29] Louise Strandoo: And I always talk about marketplace, like it is transformation. It’s different. It’s not what you’re doing today. [00:08:35] Vince Menzione: That’s right. [00:08:35] Louise Strandoo: Salespeople, rightly so. They don’t wanna introduce something that’s gonna add a complexity to the deal. [00:08:43] Louise Strandoo: They’re like, why would AWS wanna be involved? Stay away. So if that is already there and then on top of that Mm, they don’t get paid as much when they go direct. [00:08:53] Vince Menzione: Right? Right. [00:08:54] Louise Strandoo: They’re not gonna go through the market nice. [00:08:55] Vince Menzione: No, they’re not. [00:08:55] Louise Strandoo: They’re not gonna bring anything to you and the partnership team saying like, Hey, we really wanna figure out how to make this engine work with AWS So we have to do as much as we can to remove that friction from the experience. [00:09:06] Vince Menzione: So, you know, you mentioned private offers, which made me think about like product-led growth versus private offers. ’cause it’s, it feels like marketplace from the beginning. It’s changed. It [00:09:15] Louise Strandoo: has, [00:09:16] Vince Menzione: you’ve been doing this for a number of years. You were first to market with a marketplace. There was, I’ll call a lot of friction because there was channels and other, other routes to market direct selling. [00:09:27] Vince Menzione: Tell us, take us through some of those experiences. Yeah, yeah. Like what was that like? And then obviously you built cos because you had a lot of field engagement with these organizations trying to get them to go do it the right way. [00:09:38] Louise Strandoo: Right? [00:09:39] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:09:39] Louise Strandoo: So it’s interesting actually, when we built the marketplace. [00:09:42] Louise Strandoo: It was completely like a product-led growth motion, as in let’s just figure out a way to let AWS customers find amis in the marketplace. Developers are gonna go get it, and they’re just gonna buy it without any additional push from the field or like co-sell. That doesn’t need to happen. Then we heard from customers, Hey, this is great. [00:10:02] Louise Strandoo: But what we really want is also to be able to buy bigger contracts. We wanna customize our contracts, we wanna negotiate price when we’re buying this on behalf of, you know, large organizations. We’re not just buying what’s on the shelf. We need something more custom. So we introduced this concept of private offers to make sure that we could bring all of that customization into the process. [00:10:23] Louise Strandoo: And then we heard from customers saying, uh, we want to purchase from our preferred channel partners. We really wanna make sure that we’re, you know, not losing that source of, um, engagement with our really critical partners. So we had to figure out, hey, how can we make it so that we’re not competing with the channel? [00:10:41] Louise Strandoo: ’cause we’re not really a channel at all. Right. So we had to go and build our platform that allowed for channel partners to sell through the marketplace and augment that private offer piece to say, Hey, if you want, you can have a channel partner resell your product through the marketplace. So today we kind of see all of those as just different routes to market and different ISVs are gonna embrace different routes to market. [00:11:04] Louise Strandoo: First, the really important thing about costs is that it’s. Pushing partners to think about bringing their go to market strategy that works outside of the partnership to the marketplace. Mm-hmm. So if you’re an ISV that doesn’t sell with channel today, don’t start with channel partners on the marketplace. [00:11:21] Louise Strandoo: Right. If you don’t do product-led growth today, probably figure that out before you start doing it on the marketplace. Yeah. But if you’re doing those things, if you’re not doing those things, you should look at why not, and could we be doing those things and then we have the ways to bring it into your strategy with AWS marketplace. [00:11:38] Vince Menzione: So what separates the partners who kind of build this flywheel of success that you describe from those who treat it maybe as a side project? And do you, do you see less and less of that today too? I wanna, I wanna ask you. [00:11:50] Louise Strandoo: No, I think, um, the more mature the marketplace gets [00:11:57] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:11:58] Louise Strandoo: The more obvious some of the, uh, characteristics of success become and the more important. [00:12:06] Louise Strandoo: Embodying that framework becomes for partners as they grow to become the next billion dollar seller, right? And become the next a hundred million dollar seller. Um, I think a couple things come to mind for me. The first thing is that like at AWS overall, we talk a lot about like resilient architecture. We talk a lot about what does it look like to drive successful transformation. [00:12:29] Louise Strandoo: All of that has to happen in the partnership. Partners that have really strong marketplace motions with AWS, they do not have single points of failure. They are not expecting an alliance lead to manage everything and then have the business collapse if they leave. [00:12:46] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:12:46] Louise Strandoo: They figure out how to delegate and get buy-in from leadership so that they have multiple folks invested in the strategy for multiple angles so that there’s scalability and sustainability. [00:12:58] Louise Strandoo: Without that. You could do all the things right with costs and if there’s res, if there’s no resiliency, if there’s, if there’s a single point of failure, it doesn’t scale and it doesn’t last. [00:13:09] Vince Menzione: It’s so funny ’cause you haven’t seen my seven principles of, of successful partnering, but we talk about growth mindset, we talk about executive commitment and then clarity on your vision and what you’re hoping to achieve. [00:13:21] Louise Strandoo: Yeah. [00:13:22] Vince Menzione: Like that’s your internal victory. You’ve gotta get those things right. That’s exactly what you just said. A hundred [00:13:26] percent. [00:13:26] Louise Strandoo: And you can’t, you, you know, like if you don’t have that executive sponsorship, [00:13:30] Vince Menzione: yeah, [00:13:32] Louise Strandoo: great. You’ve done the cost framework, but where are you gonna go with it? [00:13:35] Vince Menzione: And it’s not just the sponsorship, it’s. [00:13:38] Vince Menzione: Up in, from the top of the organization all the way down to the selling floor. Completely. Right? [00:13:42] Louise Strandoo: Completely. [00:13:42] Vince Menzione: Everybody has to be aligned. Resources, investments all need to be aligned to this. Mm-hmm. [00:13:47] Louise Strandoo: Mm-hmm. [00:13:47] Vince Menzione: We’re speaking the same language earlier. A hundred percent. I love it. I love it. I love it. Um, so what does, we talked about product-led growth, but I want to maybe jump in here a little bit more. [00:13:58] Vince Menzione: Because I think it’s, it’s becoming more prevalent today, isn’t it? Yeah. It’s like, you know, we talked about private offer. It was really private offers, at least my perspective was a few years ago, I wanna buy something from you. Oh, you have a cloud commitment. I can access the cloud commitment. [00:14:13] Louise Strandoo: Yeah. [00:14:14] Vince Menzione: And so it was always the private offer thing that was going on behind the scenes, which required a lot of internal resources to go drive. [00:14:19] Louise Strandoo: Yep. [00:14:20] Vince Menzione: Let’s talk about product led growth. ’cause that becomes a fly more of a flywheel that’s automated Yeah. And allows you to sell while you’re sleeping kind of thing, you know? [00:14:28] Louise Strandoo: Totally. [00:14:29] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:14:30] Louise Strandoo: So I think, um, we have heard a lot from customers saying, okay, when we really need to negotiate and we need something custom, we wanna be able to do that. [00:14:40] Louise Strandoo: But we also wanna be able to purchase things quickly. We don’t wanna have to go out to dinner every time we need to upgrade, uh, like our licenses and get a new contract. We wanna be able to experiment and pick the things that resonate best with the line of business users that are, you know, increasingly taking some of that buying power. [00:14:59] Louise Strandoo: And I think especially now that we’re entering into, you know, the unprecedented, unprecedented times, it’s everything is AI like. There is more, um, pressure than ever to have users quickly figure out, does something add value to me and my business right now? And if it does, then I’m gonna keep using it, and if it doesn’t, I’m gonna go to the next thing. [00:15:22] Guest: Right. [00:15:22] Louise Strandoo: Product led growth is really about eliminating some of that I would say. Paperwork at the start of the process and putting the power in the hands of the user to say, can this product solve your challenge? And as more and more buyers are looking at Agen solutions, they wanna be able to try something, see if it works, and then quickly buy it without having to go through a whole bunch of steps because they have work that needs to be done right now. [00:15:54] Louise Strandoo: So the marketplace, that was our roots, like we started with this PLG motion. So we have all of that foundation to do it, and we’ve spent a lot of time over the last two, three years, like really investing in that from our engineering and roadmap perspective to build a whole bunch of features and capabilities that support product-led growth. [00:16:11] Louise Strandoo: We have things like free trials request, demo request, a private offer if you want to. Um, we introduced something, you know, last year that was an express private offer experience. Hey, you know, you want custom pricing. Request it and we’re gonna give it to you right away because the vendor has populated rate cards. [00:16:26] Louise Strandoo: Right? So all of those things I think are really important right now to say, yeah, when your customers like, wanna get going, now let’s stop. Putting barriers in the way and let your product actually show its value immediately. [00:16:38] Vince Menzione: And you were actually putting buttons or making buttons available Yeah. For people’s websites. [00:16:42] Vince Menzione: Exactly. So they could just say, click here and [00:16:43] Louise Strandoo: buy. Absolutely. We buy with a Ws. You can click from your own website, your own marketing pages to route them to the marketplace. If that’s the preferred way to transact, [00:16:50] Vince Menzione: yeah, why not? [00:16:51] Louise Strandoo: Yeah. [00:16:52] Vince Menzione: So you mentioned ai. We talked a little bit, I call it the tectonic shifts. [00:16:56] Vince Menzione: We, we’ve seen this incredible transformation happening so fast. And now we’re talking about agents. Right. And, uh, John Yo was over here from, uh, earlier from Sugar talking about like, what happens if the buyer is an agent? [00:17:08] Louise Strandoo: Totally. [00:17:09] Vince Menzione: Let’s talk about that. [00:17:10] Louise Strandoo: Yeah. I mean, I think that PLG and like is the right thing to enable a agentic procurement. [00:17:18] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:17:19] Louise Strandoo: If, um, you know, like in the, uh. 2019 when private offers were like, that was the big boom. We were like getting people to sign up on the marketplace. All we were focused on was private offers. So many sellers would have products on the marketplace where you’d click and purchase it and it would just say, thanks for buying, and it’d be like, we’ll get in touch with you and like a 24 hours and then we’ll figure it out. [00:17:42] Louise Strandoo: No worries. Thanks for buying. If that doesn’t work. If you’re an agent, it doesn’t work. An agent would be like, okay, this is like a dead end, right? Yeah. Agents are gonna look for products that they can purchase and begin using instantaneously. So yeah, product-led growth is like a really good, um, strategy that ISVs can use to future proof their business and make sure that they’re not just catering to an evolved. [00:18:06] Louise Strandoo: You know, procurement persona who maybe is looking for that faster transaction, but also preparing for that agent persona. Yeah. That is gonna be helping make software procurement scale. [00:18:17] Vince Menzione: So what do the partners in the room need to do to rethink how they think about this? [00:18:22] Louise Strandoo: I think there’s a couple things. I think you know, number one, you can look at the cost framework and start to use it as a jumping off point to evaluate your business. [00:18:31] Louise Strandoo: You can look through a bunch of resources that we’ve put out around costs, and one of the first blogs that I wrote has a Buzzfeed style quiz. You can go through and be like, where are we at? And if you realize after you run through that exercise that you’re farther away from where you wanna be in terms of partnering with AWS, it’s a really good dump like starting point to be like, great, here’s the challenges. [00:18:56] Louise Strandoo: But the biggest message I would relay to the partners is. Do not wait to try to go build this and then bring it to your executives and say, look what I built. It’s not gonna go anywhere. You need to go and use that as the cry to your leadership team. Like escalate. Now here’s the opportunity that we have with AWS. [00:19:17] Louise Strandoo: Let’s look at all of the awesome studies that we and our partners have put out over the years. Look at your competitors that are in the marketplace, your competitors that are partnering with AWS, and start there by saying, we’re. Behind or we’re missing in these areas. We could be doing, you know this, to make our product more a ag agentic ready. [00:19:37] Louise Strandoo: We could be doing more in marketplace to ensure that we’re capitalizing on the private offer business, and we need to figure out how we’re gonna drive commitment now so we can go and build this if you try to build it. Then show the value later. It’s gonna be really hard to then be pushing that boulder up the hill. [00:19:55] Louise Strandoo: So the more that you can lean into getting the sponsorship early on, you’re gonna have a much easier time then navigating, you know, all the hard work that comes with partnership co-sell, um, and, and everything kind of fun that we get to do once we get to go to market with our partners. [00:20:10] Vince Menzione: Do you have one piece of advice for each one of the. [00:20:13] Vince Menzione: Conditions or characteristics for, for, for this group to follow or [00:20:17] Louise Strandoo: think about? I think that, um, the, we didn’t talk about the last one, which is a good one to end on, which is enablement. [00:20:22] Vince Menzione: Yes. [00:20:23] Louise Strandoo: Enablement starts with like most of the time, ISVs in particular, and this, it goes for channel partners as well. [00:20:30] Louise Strandoo: They’re like, we gotta enable the field go and enable all the salespeople why they should do all this stuff. You have to do these things like in some sequence though. So if you go and enable the field, everybody do marketplace and they’re like, how? Where do we go, right? Do we send you the leads? Are we slacking you? [00:20:47] Louise Strandoo: Like are we emailing? Like what do we do? You have to then go back and be like, actually, our operational excellence isn’t sorted out. We need to do that first. And who needs to be enabled from that side of the house? Like don’t forget to enable your rev ops teams, your deal desk teams, all of the teams that are kind of essential to making your partnership with AWS Hum need to be enabled in the way that is relevant for their business. [00:21:10] Louise Strandoo: So when you, you know, think about like what do you need to do across all the pillars? It’s gonna be different depending on what your go-to-market focus is. If you’re a hundred percent focused on selling through SIS today and through channel, maybe product-led growth is not the top priority, but then you need to go and figure out, okay, so how have we. [00:21:28] Louise Strandoo: Figured out which partners we wanna work with on AWS and how have we enabled them and have we communicated that enablement to our salespeople? Are we removing unnecessary barriers to them transacting? That’s what you really gotta figure out. So it’s really about looking at how you execute outside of marketplace, outside AWS, figuring out what that, what are the strongest pieces that you do in your business today, across those pillars, and then asking to replicate that with your partnership with AWS. [00:21:56] Vince Menzione: Nice. So to the room here is, um, if someone in this room doesn’t, does one thing differently on the marketplace, what should it be? [00:22:08] Louise Strandoo: There’s so many things I can think about. I think like first [00:22:12] Vince Menzione: you’re coaching ’em [00:22:13] Louise Strandoo: individually, [00:22:13] Vince Menzione: by the way. Just think about it that way. [00:22:15] Louise Strandoo: One of the first things like, it depends on where you’re like, where you’re at in your journey. [00:22:18] Louise Strandoo: So like, quick show of hands, who is, um, a partner that is like using the marketplace today? [00:22:26] Vince Menzione: There’s quite a few actually. [00:22:27] Louise Strandoo: Okay. Awesome. Thank you for helping drive the marketplace. So for those of you that raised your hands, like my sentiment to you all would be figure out how you are incorporating marketplace as the center of your strategy with AWS. [00:22:44] Louise Strandoo: We are increasingly using marketplace as the point of scale for all things about partnership. All things funding are like increasingly requiring some hook into marketplace. So we can actually provide more funding and scale increase like more. So think about like how do you use marketplaces that like center of your partnership, um, for those of you that are not on the marketplace today and are thinking like, is this something that is valuable to me? [00:23:15] Louise Strandoo: Is this something that I should think about and do? You should absolutely. Go look at who are your competitors? Who are the folks that are already out there on the marketplace and, and why aren’t you there? And then you should start to look at what are the characteristics of successful sellers to map out What could we do and what’s the kind of order of operations that we should take to figure out like, how do we get there? [00:23:40] Louise Strandoo: How do we have a plan from the beginning to get buy-in for our partnership with AWS so that we’re not going about it, expecting that it’s gonna just like drive a bunch of leads to the business. It’s not what it does well, but it is gonna help accelerate the way that you co-sell with AWS, which can be a tremendous value add when done appropriately. [00:23:58] Louise Strandoo: So I think, yeah, like figure out the right way that it’s gonna unlock business value depending on what’s most important to your priority. Um. Today [00:24:08] Vince Menzione: we have about three and a half minutes, and I, I’m eager to see if there’s any questions. I, I, um, I, John’s right here with the mic and I love that. I love the, want to get the interaction here in the room. [00:24:19] Louise Strandoo: Yeah, [00:24:20] Vince Menzione: it’s a great group. [00:24:25] Guest: Oh, [00:24:29] Vince Menzione: can they light up that mic? Maybe [00:24:33] Louise Strandoo: Good. [00:24:37] Vince Menzione: There you go. That’s fine. There you go. It’s working. Alright. [00:24:41] Guest: Thank you so much. This is a really great presentation, first of all. I love it. Um, I’m actually part of the, uh, the GSI, so I work cognizant. My name is Ana Hill, um, and I’m manage alliances with ServiceNow. Um, our goal is in the really near future to really engage with all the hyperscalers in sell. [00:25:00] Guest: So that’s one thing. But my interesting, my question is how do you, how, how does AWS measure success? Of the partners who are on your platform, what are the metrics? How do you determine which partners are actually successful and what other partners can use to learn from that? [00:25:19] Louise Strandoo: Yeah, that’s such a great question. [00:25:21] Louise Strandoo: So, um, something that I think is like super helpful that you bring up is cost is not a, um, a scorecard that says everybody that does all these things is a good partner. It’s basically inputs that we have come up with that are supposed to help with the partnership outcomes. Um, so partners, we measure a whole bunch of different things. [00:25:47] Louise Strandoo: I think PDMs and my team carry goals across like seven different categories. There’s a couple of big things that we look at. We look at the revenue that you drive through the marketplace, so whether that’s through private offers or through your self-service business or through. Selling through a reseller, or if you are the reseller, like what is that resell business or driving? [00:26:05] Louise Strandoo: Um, we look at what are the opportunities that you’re bringing and sharing with AWS and that you’re launching. So through our lead sharing mechanism. Not only what are you launching, but what are you sharing with us that is qualified that you’re bringing the field into? Um, we look at things like migrations and migration, realized revenue. [00:26:25] Louise Strandoo: How are you helping drive customers to the cloud? And how are you helping customers not just get everything set up, but you start actually using it. Um, so we really are gonna look across like a multitude of those metrics and when we look at like which partners are kind of leading the way. We’re gonna start to look at the revenue in those buckets, right? [00:26:44] Louise Strandoo: Like who’s sharing and bringing and growing with us? Who’s bringing more opportunities to engage before it happens on the marketplace? Who’s actually completing that transaction? And then who are helping who, who are the partners? Kind of like leading those big types of transformations, migrations, and, and realize revenue. [00:27:00] Louise Strandoo: This is really great. Yeah. Yeah. [00:27:04] Vince Menzione: Thank you. Any other questions? Come on. We’ve got 30 seconds left. We have time for that one last question. Run over there. John. Come on. [00:27:17] Guest: Thank you again, a great, uh, presentation. One question I had is, uh, this morning, right Jay from, uh, oia, right? He identified a whole bunch of, uh, companies that are doing. [00:27:28] Guest: More than a billion dollars in revenue with AWS. [00:27:30] Louise Strandoo: Mm-hmm. [00:27:31] Guest: What would you say are one or two top qualities among these companies that help some drive? I can give [00:27:36] Louise Strandoo: six. And they’re all of these. Yes. [00:27:39] Vince Menzione: The cost, [00:27:40] Louise Strandoo: but like, I think, um, so I love it. Yeah. My, my team we’re working on some content to better capture, like Yeah. [00:27:48] Louise Strandoo: You, you’ve gotten there, you’ve done the six basic things. Now what happens when you’re a billion dollar business? What does it look like there? It’s a lot of the same stuff, right? Like billion dollar billers on the marketplace. They embody that resilience, for example, in their operational mechanisms. [00:28:03] Louise Strandoo: They’re moving beyond the point of there being like one person that creates private offers and they’re like just part of the partnership team. They activate their, um, their deal desk to really manage private offers and marketplace business at scale. They’re integrating their pipeline to share deals proactively through their CRM system and they have really targeted enablement that is. [00:28:24] Louise Strandoo: Really pushing to the field to make sure that every person in their team understands the value of cloud value of AWS and how marketplace accelerates the pipeline. So the more mature that you become as a marketplace seller, like the more that cost is relevant to help keep you on track and be that kind of north star to say like, you could do a cool bunch of stuff with us, but here’s really where you wanna check and see, like what can you do to evolve the business to the next stage? [00:28:49] Vince Menzione: What you’ve said is so like impactful and we have some experts in the room that do this. They help these organizations better understand it’s really getting into your field organization to help them understand how to. How to show up for meetings with AWS re, like how to, how to, uh, co-sell together, how to think about going after these opportunities. [00:29:09] Vince Menzione: What, when you’re, when you’re talking to customers, potential customers about their cloud commitments, like what are the right questions to ask in the pro? There’s so many things, like I’m sure the costs six has like 150 each [00:29:21] Louise Strandoo: Easily [00:29:21] Vince Menzione: steps. Yeah. You know, to it. [00:29:24] Louise Strandoo: Yeah. And I think like, just to follow on that. [00:29:26] Louise Strandoo: Um, we have partners who have gone and they’ve been like, okay, we’re getting a strategic collaboration agreement with AWS. We’re getting funding, and if they don’t have this, it doesn’t work. It doesn’t work. It fails. So this is really like, yeah, it’s about building that resilient architecture to say, if we go big, do we have the execution plan to succeed? [00:29:47] Louise Strandoo: You can’t start with a plan to say, give us a bunch of funding and we’ll go do it. Your salespeople will say. Know what that is. Don’t care. Yeah. So you have to put all of that, you know, all of those building blocks in first to make sure that we can actually execute. [00:30:01] Vince Menzione: You need alignment from the executive suite down to the selling floor. [00:30:05] Louise Strandoo: A hundred percent. [00:30:06] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:30:06] Louise Strandoo: Yep. [00:30:06] Vince Menzione: That’s really what it’s all about. [00:30:07] Louise Strandoo: Yep. [00:30:08] Vince Menzione: Louise, thank you so much. It’s been incredible. So great to have you join us. Thank you [00:30:15] so [00:30:15] Louise Strandoo: much. Yes, thank [00:30:16] Vince Menzione: you. [00:30:16] Louise Strandoo: Thank you, [00:30:16] Vince Menzione: thank you. Thanks for listening to The Ultimate Partner Podcast. If today’s conversation resonated. Share it with a partner leader in your network. [00:30:26] Vince Menzione: Subscribe where you listen, and head over to the Ultimate partner.com for show notes related content and the resources for this episode. And if you haven’t already, now’s the time to register for the Ultimate Partner Live event in Reston, Virginia, October 26th through October 28th. Until next time, keep showing up in the rooms that matter because being in the room changes everything.

Noah Hopton, CEO and Founder of Finvisor, helps startups and growing businesses simplify operations by building integrated back-office teams that combine accounting, finance, payroll, HR, insurance, and technology. By combining experienced financial professionals with modern technology, Noah enables businesses to streamline operations, stay compliant, and focus on sustainable growth.  In this conversation, Noah introduces The Adjacent Extension Framework—Earn the Trust, Build the Relationship, Listen for Other Problems, Connect Other Specialists, and Empower the Team with Tech. He explains why proactive service creates lasting client relationships, how solving adjacent business challenges leads to sustainable growth, and why integrated back-office teams outperform disconnected vendors. Noah also shares how AI is reshaping finance operations by automating repetitive work, empowering finance professionals to focus on strategic decision-making, and helping businesses leverage technology to enhance—not replace—human expertise. — How to Outsource Your Back Office with Noah Hopton  Good day, listeners. Steve Preda here with the Management Blueprint Podcast, and my guest today is Noah Hopton, the CEO and Founder of Finvisor, helping seed and Series A companies that have outgrown spreadsheets and part-time bookkeepers but aren’t ready for a full-time finance team yet. Their job is to give you the financial clarity to make good decisions at every stage of growth. Noah, welcome to the show.  Yeah. Pleasure to be here, Steve.  Well, great to have you here, and I’m very curious about your career and your business and what you built here. I’m particularly curious about your personal ‘Why’ and how you manifest it in your business.  Personal ‘Why.’ That’s great. Well, I’ll be honest, I didn’t go in thinking I was going to be an accountant or run an accounting firm. You know, I studied accounting in school. Eventually, I thought I was going to probably be more in a kind of front-of-house sales relationship because I enjoyed the people part—making relationships and meeting people.  But I was very fortunate that I found the consulting, fractional CFO world, where I got to discover a love of problem-solving, creating relationships, and creating value for clients. For me, it was kind of this love of helping clients understand their business, helping clients understand what to think about around the corner, where it's not just being in-house with one set of books that you're closing.Share on X  When you’re at Finvisor, my day-to-day, at least when I started, was probably working with 10 to 12 clients a month and helping them understand, “Okay, how did they perform last month? Can they hire a certain number of people? And what’s the plan going forward?”  Yeah, I mean, that’s super helpful. I started life in accounting as well with KPMG, and what attracted me was to essentially have that language of business so that I would be able to understand how a business works and have this confidence of not flying blind, right? That’s really, really cool. So how did you evolve from a CFO into a founder? What was the trigger point for you?  So I was very fortunate. I actually was at a prior firm at one point when I started my career, and they were a little bit like the cobbler with bad shoes, where eventually they decided they had to close shop, and clients were going to be given notice. I, myself, was given notice saying, “Hey, in a week, you’re not going to have a job, Noah.” And so I was really given this moment in life, saying, “Hey, if I enjoy what I’ve been doing, do I think I could do it better than the firm I’d been at?  And do I want to make this leap into being a founder and starting a business?” And so my co-founder and I both talked to each other and said, “Look, we love our clients. We love what we’ve been trying to build. I think we just need to do a little bit of a refresh and restructuring of how this operates.” And so we started our own company. I was very lucky that I started with about, I had about 30 clients and a team of four on day one, which I think is unusual.  Most people in the accounting space start off as a one-person shop, trying to grow from one to two, and having to double their clients or double their size to get there. We were fortunate to have five team members and 30 clients on day one. Originally, our vision was just, “Hey, let’s help with the fractional CFO and the bookkeeping,” but that really evolved over time as we added additional services and really understood where our clients were having problems in their back office.  What are the areas where maybe the insurance brokers they’d been working with weren’t very hands-on and kind of came in once a year? Our clients were asking us, as their CFO, “Hey, can you help us select our health insurance?” And we’re like, “Well, we’re kind of doing the broker’s job. Why don’t we build out our own team?” So that was one of the first verticals we moved into and added by building an insurance brokerage. From there, we kept building, where now not only do you have your CFO and accountant helping you, but you also have them with the ability to go out to market, help you compare quotes, and help get your insurance in place. So you’re essentially expanding the array of virtual services that you’re providing, or fractional services that you’re providing, to your clients?  Correct. Yeah. We really try to own the full back office end to end because I think a lot of people deal with, “Okay, great, I have a bookkeeper, I have a tax accountant, I have an R&D tax provider,” and they’re dealing with four or five different vendors that don’t really communicate. The client is the person playing telephone between the two, and we’re like, “Wait, stop. Why is this the solution?” We should just build a different business where it’s all under the Finvisor umbrella.  It’s all full-time team members who are actually working together on behalf of the client, even if fractionally. Some of our clients only need five hours of a payroll specialist, but they need someone to own that role, and they need that person to be able to talk to their sales tax team because it’s like, “Oh, we hired someone in a new state. Is sales tax applicable there?” And connect those dots because, when you have these disconnected providers, you have a lot of things that can drop because they’re not in people’s field of view.  Yeah, I mean, it’s a great service. If you can get a competent team that will take care of your back office, then you can focus on figuring out message-market fit and then essentially scaling revenue. You don’t have to worry about it, and you don’t have to babysit inexperienced people that maybe you can afford to hire, but who would not be able to own the job.  Yeah, exactly. I mean, it’s kind of the, “Do you want to…” You know, I think at least when we started in 2014, there was more of a generalist bookkeeper. That’s kind of the typical solution people went with. Nothing against that, but it’s kind of nice to have dedicated specialists in the different back-office areas that you need. I mean, bookkeepers are great.  They’re usually not your best payroll and HR people. They’re not thinking about California final-paycheck laws, or whether you need to offer a 401(k) if you hire someone in California. Whereas, if you have someone whose entire job is payroll and HR, and you need Finvisor to help run your payroll, they’re going to be thinking about those edge cases and helping you along so that you can just build your business, get to the next milestone, and not worry about tripping yourself up because of compliance, taxes, or a lack of visibility in your reporting. Yeah, that’s great peace of mind. So this podcast is about frameworks, and I wonder, what is your framework? How do you help your clients, or how do you figure things out? What have you developed? We’re about 400 frameworks in, so I’m looking for something unique that helps you and is easy to explain—three to five steps maximum.  Yeah. I mean, one of the ones that comes to mind for us is what we’ve really called the Adjacent Extension Framework. So, first, do really good work and earn your client's trust in one area. Makes it easy for them to approach you.Share on X For us, it’s historically been accounting. People think, “Great, get my books put together.” But for us, it’s really about creating a relationship and earning the client’s trust.  Then, as step two, listen for the other problems they’re having. What are the adjacent problems they’re asking you to solve? And then for us, what we’ve really done is double down in those other areas by building specialists in those verticals. Once you’ve earned the client’s trust, if you’re doing their accounting and all of a sudden they’re struggling with invoicing or collections, you can say, “Hey, we can also help you with accounts receivable and collection efforts because we see your AR balance increasing on your financial statements.” At that point, they’re already thinking, “Great, I like working with this person.  Let’s give their team a try and help us solve another problem.” So, for us, it’s really been about finding those adjacent problems, building a team that specializes in them, and then connecting the client with the right expert. The last piece that’s really coming to market now is using technology to empower the team. Historically, a lot of our value came from having experts who could handle the edge cases or the gray areas between payroll, accounting, taxes, and sales tax. Now, with technology, you can also build the data infrastructure to highlight what’s happening for the client while helping guide the team as they manage those clients.  Love it. So what I’m hearing is, number one—or maybe even number zero—is do a great job, right?  The trust.  Okay. So that’s maybe another way of saying it: earn the trust. But is doing a good job enough to earn that trust, or is there more to it?  I mean, I think in any service business, you want to be proactive. A lot of bookkeepers, accountants, and even legal professionals are usually waiting for the client to ask a question before providing an answer. I think the goal should be to think ahead for the client and proactively provide guidance. That came naturally for us because we sit in the fractional CFO seat.Share on X  But even if you’re just doing bookkeeping, you can still catch these things for clients and help them out. Or if you’re selling P&C insurance and helping clients with their general liability coverage, you can think about what other types of coverage they may need. So I’d say the more proactive you can be, the better. The other thing is meeting clients where they already are.  For us, a lot of our clients are on Slack, so we connect with them on Slack. We chat with them as if we were full-time employees because we don’t want the experience to feel different. We don’t want you to feel like you’re emailing a generic support inbox and not knowing when someone is going to get back to you. If you only need fractional-level support, it shouldn’t feel like you’re getting fractional value or a fractional level of communication.  I love it. So you actually own the function inside the organization, so it feels like you’re part of the team, or your people are part of their team. So that builds the trust. So, do a great job, or earn the trust, number one. Number two, build the relationship. Number three, listen to other problems that they might have. Number four, connect them to other specialists. And number five, empower the team with technology.  Yeah. That’s a lot of it. I mean, as an advisor, we’ve grown… I mean, 60% of our growth comes from client referrals. So I think you know you’re doing something right if clients are recommending you to their friends and network. And so hopefully, if someone’s listening to this and you’re not getting referrals, you should be thinking about, “How do we either create more trust for our clients to be referring us, or how do we become more top of mind when clients are having these conversations?”  That’s great. So 60% of your growth comes from referrals. What’s the other 40%? How do you drive growth? What drives growth for you? What’s the other way to drive growth besides referrals?  Yeah. I mean, I think it’s also being connected with the ecosystem that you’re in. In our space, there are a lot of technology partners. Think about Xero, which is an accounting software, QuickBooks Online, NetSuite, payroll software like Rippling, Bill.com. They all have accounting partnerships, and the more you can build with them and grow your team alongside them, clients will reach out to them and say, “Hey, do you have someone who can help us set up Bill.com or help us set up Rippling?  We don’t have a payroll team to do our state tax registrations.” So we’ve seen a lot of good momentum as our software partners start sending us clients to help us grow. I think the other area is trying to figure out where you can have partnerships that will do introductions. We’ve been very fortunate in partnering with a number of VCs. Obviously, the VCs have worked with us because we’re on the board, or we had a mutual client. A lot of them will start to build partnership channels, and it’s a great opportunity.  They’ll say, “We just invested in this company, and you should go talk to Noah’s team to help with your accounting or your fractional CFO.” So it’s really about finding those tangential operators or entities that complement whatever you’re doing.  So are these primarily personal relationships that need to scale, or do you have a way to scale this across other people in your organization—this ability to develop partners? Or is it mainly you?  It depends on the role. A lot of our fractional CFOs on the team continue to build relationships. I would say probably 40% of our new clients come through a channel that’s not through me. There’ll be other people on our team who have built relationships with another VC or another software company. I think one of the key things we’ve always focused on is hiring people who are very, I would say “doers” might be the wrong word, but people who can self-manage and be project managers.  If you find the right people who can take a step back and look at the bigger picture, I mean, sometimes people come to Finvisor and they don’t realize that we ourselves are a business. Yes, you’re doing accounting like you were in-house and getting the books closed, but if you do good work and you realize clients are having problems, you have to think, “Hey, how can I help clients more and also help Finvisor create a win-win?” A lot of times, when we’re hiring, we’re trying to find people who have that type of drive to continue building and helping us internally, and not just do one part of the puzzle they’re responsible for. That might not be the most direct answer, but I would say a lot of it is hiring—making sure it's not just me leading the growth, but me building a team that can help lead the growth outside of just me.Share on X  Yeah. So how do you share the context so that your team members can connect the dots as well as you can? What’s your approach to that?  There’s a couple of ways we’ve done it. One way is we use a note-taker that then feeds into our CRM. For all client communication, whether they meet with us on Zoom or Google Meet, the transcripts are put into a centralized hub for us. It also connects to our CRM in terms of what we’re doing for the clients. At any point in time, someone can ask, “Hey, what’s going on with this client?” They can understand, “Great, this is what the payroll team talked to them about this week.  This is what the CFO team talked to them about last month. These are the problems they’ve been bringing up.” So we can capture that information without it having to be provided orally every single time, and without having to rely on a chat or an email to the team. There are some moments when it’s useful to give the team a larger update, but in general, it’s good to figure out a way to capture the essence of what you’re doing for your clients so that the team can then, in an AI chat-specific way, talk through, “Hey, great, what’s going on with this client? What are their needs? What has changed in the last six months? Who’s working on the client?”  I’ll have a VC that we’re talking to say, “Oh, we’re looking to invest in the CPG space and this type of vertical. Do you have any clients?” We’re at a point now where I don’t know every client. I usually have an idea about most clients, but there are definitely clients where I don’t know everything that’s happened in the last six months because I don’t talk to all 200 clients.  But I can go to our central hub to gain that information and understand, “Okay, great, which client is looking to fundraise and might want to be connected to this VC?” It’s a nice way to connect the dots. They’re looking to invest. The client is looking to raise. We also do brown-bag sessions. We’re a distributed team, so I think you have to be a little more intentional about how you educate the team. We’ll have weekly meetings where we walk through new technology, new changes in what we’re offering, new positioning, and continue educating the team in a more structured format.  The other thing we’ve done to help the team understand what’s going on is to make information as accessible as possible, similar to how we communicate with clients. So the team doesn’t have to log in to a pretty outdated CRM to pull information on a client. It’s either available directly in the Slack conversation or in a more modern tool like Notion, where you can easily search and find the information you want. So basically, you’re managing and harvesting your data and using that to feed people information about how they can develop partnerships. Is that what I’m hearing?  Yeah. And I think a lot of it is also figuring out which playbooks and processes are repeatable, documenting them better, and then educating the team around them. For example, with our fractional CFOs, we want to be in the board meeting. If we can be in the board meeting, A, we can help clients answer questions about their finances more easily, and B, it’s good to have visibility into what the board is saying about the business and where they want to go.  Then, obviously, the VCs are going to say, “Oh, great, this is Ian at Finvisor.” If he reaches out to me about a partnership, they’re going to have a better understanding of what we do because they’ve been in the room with us—or they’ve been in a virtual or in-person boardroom with us.  So you’re basically sharing the playbook so that they have a better understanding of what they can refer you for. Correct. Yeah.  So, switching gears here, Noah, what’s one thing that you’re trying to actively figure out in your business right now?  I mean, the question everyone is trying to figure out, at least in my space, is how they’re going to use AI in some fashion. That’s the kind of million-dollar question everyone keeps talking about—AI in accounting, AI in finance. Right now, we’re really structured in how we’re trying to use it and apply it. But the question I have is, what’s the next year going to look like? What’s five years going to look like as this technology gets more legs and more trust behind it? We’re pretty intentional about what we’re building and how we’re using some of the newer technology with AI. But I think there’s a lot that, at least for me, you have to continue to iterate. The world today feels different than it did three months ago. I’d say for most of Finvisor’s history—and this has been 12 years—it hasn’t felt like that, where a year later things might feel marginally different because we’re maybe 20% bigger or whatever might have happened.  Now, I think there’s a lot more excitement and unknown around technology and how it can either make people more efficient or help highlight and surface better issues that clients need to talk through. But I also feel like we’re in a moment where everyone’s trying to throw AI into every technology. So we're also trying to stay true to who we are, which is people first, relationships first—technology powering us, not being the solution.Share on X  So as you’re scaling AI to improve the information that your people have, your CFOs have, that presumably is going to lead to people doing less of the mechanical, repeatable tasks and more of the judgment tasks. So how do you scale judgment as you’re scaling the impact with AI?  On our side, I think it’s A, trying to organize and structure the data coming in. B, trying to create tooling that isn’t unique to one client but is built in a way that can be customized for each customer. A lot of the firms I talk to that are in the Finvisor space just take a blanket approach—turn Claude on for every fractional CFO, let them connect it to QuickBooks, and try to figure out their own playbooks.  That’s not how we’ve ever run the business. We don’t just hire accountants and let them run the accounting and see how the output turns out. We’re more focused on figuring out what is actually useful for review. Right now, I think AI has been most helpful around quality. It can definitely check that things are consistent and make sure edge cases are being caught.  I think we’re going to get to a future state where it’s not only making sure quality is at the 95th percentile of confidence, but also giving visibility into metrics like CAC, LTV, and churn—things that would normally take longer to pull together. Your fractional CFO might currently spend hours reviewing Stripe data or Shopify data to come to a conclusion. AI can cut out maybe 40% of that data-cleanup layer, where it’s like, “Okay, now they have the tools to dig in and understand what the underlying problem is,” instead of spending so much time cleaning up the data and getting everything organized.  So currently, at least my thesis is that it’s going to allow us to manage more clients because some of the day-to-day—I don’t want to call it busy work—but the work you have to do before you get to the exciting parts of the job will become more automated and less manual, like pulling data out of Stripe, Shopify, your CRM, or NetSuite.  So does that mean you’ll have a different type of people, maybe higher-level thinkers? Or do you think you can elevate your current team to that level?  Yeah. I think you’re… Sorry, I know I was originally answering this through the fractional CFO lens. Most of our fractional CFOs are already at the top of that organizational pyramid. For them, it’s really about helping them have cleaner data, better visibility into the actions they need to take, and better insight into what they should be reviewing and discussing with the client.  If I think more broadly about the back-office finance team, I do think a lot of the more generalist staff accountant and AP specialist roles won’t be spending as much time on the day-to-day blocking and tackling. If a client has 1,000 transactions a month flowing through their bank and credit cards, historically that accountant would sit in QuickBooks Online clicking “Okay, okay, okay,” reviewing every transaction and coding it. Eighty percent of those transactions will simply be coded automatically in real time as they come in. That leaves them to focus on the 20% that actually requires human judgment.  For me, the question is, can we continue to empower those people to be more impactful with that 20%? Are they the right people for that 20%? We’ve always tried to hire people who are proactive and broader thinkers, so I think we have the right team to step into that. If we’d built a traditional BPO model with an outsourced accounting team made up of people who were really just coding transactions at a basic level, I’d be more worried because getting those people to step up and handle edge cases is difficult.  But that’s not how we’ve historically built Finvisor. We’ve always tried to find people who are a little more… I’d rather hire an A-plus player than a B-player just because there’s some savings in the cost structure. I’d rather have the right people who can perform 80% of the time when they’re at bat than just hire someone because they’re cheaper.  Yeah.  Wrong baseball analogy there, but yeah.  Yeah, I understand. So you have A-plus people. Maybe the people who are doing more bookkeeping-type services—their jobs may become automated—but your A-players are going to have best-in-class information, and they can serve more clients that way.  Yeah. I still think that if you think about the typical accounting structure—if you’re working in-house and you have a bookkeeper and a controller—it’s still helpful. Depending on the size of the company, if you’re a small company, you probably won’t need that bookkeeper.  The controller can handle the edge cases and close the books. But at a certain scale, you’ll still want that junior resource supporting the controller so the controller can focus on the higher-level, more strategic work. I think people will simply be able to do more with less if they’re the right person. There will be people who, if they aren’t good at staying on their toes and figuring out edge cases, won’t be the right fit.  AI will probably replace some of those roles. But I think there’s a great opportunity for people who can think more strategically. They don’t have to be a CFO. They can just be a really smart bookkeeper who’s good at handling edge cases. They’ll simply be able to manage three times as many clients as they could when they had to code every single transaction.  Okay. If you had a magic wand and you could fix one thing in your business over the next 12 months, what would it be?  One area that we probably haven’t prioritized enough because of growth is SEO, AEO, and our overall sales build-out. Our paid advertising hasn’t been the strongest part of our business because it hasn’t been the top priority. If I had a magic wand, I’d have someone clean up our SEO and AEO visibility because I know clients love us and we do great work, but I don’t think we’re showing up the way I’d like from an SEO and AEO perspective. So that would be it. Yeah.  Yeah. Yeah. Love it. So, who are your ideal customers? Who do you want knocking on your door? Is it venture-backed companies primarily, or do you also work with private company founders? Who are your sweet-spot customers?  A lot of our clients are going to be in that 5-to-50-employee range, where they don’t need a full-time back office, a full-time accountant, a full-time CFO, or a full-time payroll specialist, but they need someone to own those roles. That way, we can put together the right Finvisor team to support them. We’ve intentionally made ourselves pretty modular, so while the largest group of our clients is in the tech VC world, we also have a lot of SMBs—law firms, beauty businesses, and other professional services businesses.  I would say that, if you looked at the Finvisor client base as a whole, you’d probably see a lot of startups. But we’re also starting to see more SMBs and more traditional businesses that don’t have VC funding but still need help with their accounting, bookkeeping, and modernizing their back office. So it’s a bit of both. Most of our clients are going to be in that 10-to-50- or 100-employee range, where they’re complex enough that they care about their financials and want to understand what they spent last month, where they’re going, and how they’re going to get there.  Earlier-stage companies are sometimes just a little too early. If you’re a one- or two-person company with just an idea, there’s a reason people think about their financials on more of a cash basis. They can think about the five clients they’re working with. Their bank balance ties pretty closely to their financials. There’s not a huge difference between the two when you’re a sole proprietor.  But as you start to evolve, that’s where Finvisor can provide more value. For all of our clients, we do accrual accounting, so we’re recognizing your revenue and your costs over the life of the service. As you start to grow and build, that’s really helpful. Obviously, if you’re at day one, it’s less impactful because you’re living more day to day, week to week, and month to month.  Steve Preda: Okay. So if we have those kinds of companies—which we do among our listeners—and they hear about this and want to fix their back office and outsource it to a reliable partner who can help them own those functions and give them good advice, what’s the best entry point? Where should they go, and how can they connect with you personally as well?  Yeah. hello@finvisor.com comes to me and the sales team. There’s probably a 95% chance you’ll talk to me if you reach out because I still love connecting with most new businesses that come through the door. The other area I wanted to call out that could be helpful for businesses is PEOs. PEOs are great, but I think at some point clients need to graduate from the PEO, and Finvisor is uniquely positioned to be both your insurance broker—helping you quote large-group plans—and your payroll and HR team to help you leave the PEO.  For a lot of our clients, once they pass that 100-employee mark, it’s like, “Great, we now qualify for a large-group plan,” which might have better rates than what they’re getting through the PEO. They just don’t have the team or bandwidth to get off the PEO. We’ll come alongside those larger companies and say, “Great, let’s quote a large-group plan for you. We’ll also put together a transition plan to register you in the 20 states where your employees are currently located.  We’ll make sure you get your workers’ compensation and employment practices liability insurance in place so there’s really no difference—apples to apples—from being in the PEO to running your own payroll.” We help with that transition because I’m always surprised to see companies with hundreds of employees still on a PEO, where the savings could be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars if they left. They just don’t have the internal team because they’ve always been on a PEO. They’ve never had to do state registrations, so they don’t know how to do them. Because of that, they’re usually not looking for an alternative path to get off that structure. We can at least review it with them and help them out if it’s a good fit. And just to remind our listeners what a PEO is, in case they don’t know.  Oh, sorry. Yeah. A PEO is a Professional Employer Organization. If you’ve heard of companies like TriNet or Justworks, they’re PEOs. In the health insurance space, there are four primary ways you can get health insurance. Most companies start with small-group plans in the early days because they’re state-mandated. For example, in California, if you’re under 100 employees, the rates my company gets would be the same rates Steve’s company gets if we’re both under 100 employees and we’re asking Blue Shield for a quote from the same ZIP code. That’s small-group insurance.  Then there’s level-funded, where carriers quote specifically based on your employee group. There’s large-group, which is somewhat similar but designed for larger organizations. Then there’s the PEO. Let’s say you’re a 10-person company. You don’t have enough employees to qualify for large-group health insurance, which is usually discounted because the risk is spread across hundreds of employees. The PEO says, “We’ll employ your team. Instead of you directly employing 10 people and buying health insurance for only those 10 people, we’ll employ your team and give you rates based on the 10,000 employees we already have.” PEOs are really popular in places like California and New York, where health insurance is very expensive.  But once you get above about 100 employees, you can usually qualify for your own large-group rates, which are similar to what the PEO is getting. The difference is that the PEO is generally marking up those rates because they need to make a margin on the plan. You can often get those rates directly yourself.  Yeah. That makes perfect sense. Okay. So if you’re listening to this and you’re building a venture-backed startup, or you’re the founder of a professional services firm, a law firm, or another small business with 10 to 100 employees, and you don’t yet have the budget—or maybe you simply don’t need—a full-time CFO, insurance advisor, HR leader, and other functional specialists, then reach out to Noah and Finvisor.  Check out what they have to offer and see what services might be a good fit for your business. Thanks, Noah, for coming on the show and sharing your expertise. It’s fascinating to see how this field is evolving, how you’re tapping into technology, and how you’re focusing on the highest-quality CFOs to help your clients. If you enjoyed this conversation, stay tuned.  Follow us on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Make sure you don’t miss an episode. Every week, we bring you exciting entrepreneurs and their best management frameworks. Thanks for coming, Noah, and thanks for listening.  Thanks, Steve. Appreciate it. Important Links: Noah's LinkedIn Noah's  website Noah's email: hello@finvisor.com

Competing in a Future World of Infinite Intelligence Navigation: Intro From Knowledge Workers to Judgment Workers The AI-Native Company: Org, Hiring, Culture The Human Element: Are We Underestimating It? Scenarios Our Take Conclusion Our co-hosts: Bertrand Schmitt, Entrepreneur in Residence at Red River West, co-founder of App Annie / Data.ai, business angel, advisor to startups and VC funds, @bschmitt Nuno Goncalves Pedro, Investor, Managing Partner, Founder at Chamaeleon, @ngpedro Our show:   Tech DECIPHERED brings you the Entrepreneur and Investor views on Big Tech, VC and Start-up news, opinion pieces and research. We decipher their meaning, and add inside knowledge and context. Being nerds, we also discuss the latest gadgets and pop culture news Subscribe To Our Podcast Nuno Gonçalves Pedro Introduction Welcome to episode 79 of Tech DECIPHERED. Today, we take a leap into the big unknown. This is a thesis episode, not your classic analysis, in-depth sharing episode. The big idea for this episode is that we may be approaching the cognitive age, and how would one, or how would a company compete in a world of infinite intelligence? The big idea, again, is that intelligence, which has been mostly scarce and expensive for all of human history, might become abundant and cheap. If that happens, what happens to work, what happens to companies, what happens to society? This episode will be really framing a lot of these discussions. From knowledge workers to judgment workers, addressing the AI native company and how does that change, going into the human element and whether or not we’re underestimating it, and finally, ending up going into scenarios, feasible scenarios of a future where, well, intelligence is abundant. Intelligence is quasi-infinite or infinite itself.Bertrand Schmitt Yes. Big questions for this episode 79. From Knowledge Workers to Judgment Workers We can start with from knowledge workers to judgment workers. Let’s go back first to how came the knowledge worker. It’s a 20th-century invention from Peter Drucker in 1959. The idea here is that that category might be splitting. The production of knowledge itself is on its way to being commoditized by AI. However, our perspective is that judgment around production of knowledge is not disappearing and is staying for a bit control managed by humans. What’s your take on this, Nuno? Do you agree with this split?Nuno Gonçalves Pedro I think it’s a little bit more profound than that. It’s not just judgment. Definitely, human judgment will be needed. We’ve seen agents perform all sorts of funny things in the wrong way when left alone to their own devices. Even some very well-known AI researchers coming forward and saying, “Hey, I tried to use this myself, and actually I messed up some of my systems,” or “I messed some of my code. I messed up some of my flows for a period of time.” I think just having human-in-the-loop from a judgment standpoint will be needed for a significant amount of time. That is something you can’t just delegate into machines, into algorithms, et cetera. The second part is, ultimately, there needs to be contextualization, and that contextualization, I think, comes from two forms. One from actual data, where the machine, I think, at some point will catch up, or the machines will catch up. The algorithms, at some point, on the data analysis will get better and better and have probably the closest to the truth that you can get, minus all the biases that are in the data, just to be clear, because data has a ton of biases. We’ve looked at this in the past and discussed it at prior episodes. But maybe on that, I think the machine has a chance to catch up, or the machines have a chance to catch up, so there’s less of distinctiveness from the human standpoint. But then, on just the attributes, the ability when you’re judging some situation, you’re in the middle of the situation. You’re judging the person and how it’s acting, in some ways, a lot of the things that end up happening, end up happening because there’s human interaction. There’s someone on the other side. I see how they’re delivering the message, how they’re implicating. We’ll talk about it later in the context of the organization and what changes in companies. I don’t think it’s just judgment. I think there’s a little bit more than that. One of the reasons I went to the dark side of management early on in my career from being an engineer was Peter Drucker and this notion of the knowledge worker, which he later on reemphasized with the publishing of his book, which for me was seminal and defined a lot of my career in life, the post-capitalist society, which is this notion that information rich and information poor is going to be the key distinctiveness that will happen in the world. The two big camps, information rich, information poor, which links back to this invention of the term knowledge worker, that knowledge is going to be key in some ways. I think that’s what we’ve seen for the last decades. Again, I think judgment is not going anywhere, but I think it’s beyond judgment. There’s elements of humanity and involvement that won’t go away anytime soon, where human-in-the-loop are particularly critical. We’ll discuss later some scenarios, but for me, that’s my stick in the ground. I think human-in-the-loop is going to be critical for many decades to come.Bertrand Schmitt While we are talking about all of this, and we share some possible scenarios, there is always that question. This is moving so fast right now. If you think about AI 10 years ago, AI 5 years ago, AI with the launch of ChatGPT 3, and then AI the past 2 years, now we have agents that are running at scale. Things are moving very fast. I can tell you, me in 6 months, the change has been pretty dramatic in terms of what I can use AI for. There is always that question that whatever we are thinking about cannot just be connected to what we were able to do 6 months ago or even today, we have to think and project ourselves at least in the next 6–12 months. Of course, we can go beyond that, and we will do that with some future scenarios, but it’s a very fast-moving, and it’s not clear yet where are the limits.Nuno Gonçalves Pedro I think that’s a very fair point. Let me try to analyze things that I don’t think will change anytime soon for the next few years. Agreed with you that many things will change, and we’ll have a lot better tools, platforms out there. That will be difficult to predict what exactly won’t change. I think there’s elements of humanity, and some of them do relate to judgment, like having good or bad taste, having a view on it, on whether something looks good or bad. Obviously, all of this sometimes is subjective, but some of it may not be as subjective as people think it is. The elements of contextualization. I think a little bit going back to what we did at Chamaeleon ourselves, where we built this platform, Mantis, and the objective of building Mantis was not really to replace us, was that it was a core augmentation layer in some ways that we would use investment or investor judgment as humans in the loop to systematize pattern recognition and a variety of other things, but that Mantis would really elevate all that judgment, not just in terms of timing, us being more productive, but also in terms of the quality of the decisions we’re making. Think of it as a little bit like having our human judgment in the context of operating Chamaeleon at a higher altitude, where we are more aware of the things that are happening and how they actually happen. The ability to really get to the data pieces and then make decisions on top of that that generate the needed alpha in our case for investors. What I mean by this is I think there’s always going to be core elements of humanity that I do think are going to be difficult for the machines to replace. For example, the taste piece people are like, “I can figure out what’s the taste in the market.” Yeah, but that’s mainstream. That doesn’t identify what’s the next big thing, which normally doesn’t start from mainstream. It starts from something else. It could start from opinion leaders and influencers. It could start by someone having a different way of addressing a problem and having a solution that hasn’t been thought through. For example, elements of creativity, I think, in human judgment and in human operations is something that I feel the machine will still have difficulty to replace.Bertrand Schmitt Let’s not forget how today current algorithms are working by feeding them enormous quantity of data, actually as much data as we can find. Finding more data is becoming a limitation these days. What it means is that it’s very hard for AI to think beyond its training data. There is some level of logic that’s being added, but at the same time, take the launch of the iPhone. What was the opinion before launch? Is that no, it doesn’t make sense. Not enough battery life, no keyboard, no this, no that. If you just base your analysis on what’s written out there, what’s being sold out there, you would just say, “It’s going to fail.” AI might really follow that more generic advice and perspective because that’s what in the training data and that’s what they’re in volume. It’s, of course, raising a lot of questions of, how do you improve the quality of the training data? How do you separate the weed from the chaff? There are a lot of questions there, and obviously, it will get better over time. But it’s still a critical part of how it’s working today. It won’t be that easy to change. I really like your point regarding Mantis, and I will say in general, platforms that you build with AI or leveraging AI capacity. Because when we say knowledge production is going to disappear, but we’ll keep judgment, it will be a different type of judgment because the quantity and quality of knowledge we will have in front of us to build our judgment will be very different. If suddenly we have for free the work of 10 interns or 5 junior analysts or whatever, and you can run that on nearly anything you do in life or at work, it’s completely dramatic. Your judgment was not used to be exercised so often because often you were missing quality data to have a judgment. Before it was a lot of finger in the wind and trying to smell something, but you didn’t have enough to make a serious analysis. Except if you are working as a strategy consultant, as you used to do, Nuno. That part is actually quite interesting. That the judgment itself will be exercised much more often and hopefully on the base of much more in-depth analysis for a lot of things. We will work very differently.Nuno Gonçalves Pedro We will go in-depth, faster and more fact-based, more data-based along the way. The question some of you might have right now is, is there some judgment that’s going to go away? Is there some judgment? We seem to be defining that there’s this organization, we’ll talk about it later, that goes from doers more into deciders. I think there’s some nuances to that, so I’ll just hit pause on that. In terms of judgment, obviously, there’s judgment that has been hidden over the years under the pretense of being wisdom, but it’s actually not wisdom. It’s just repetitive tasking, and it’s rules-based for the most. There’s a lot of judgment done, in particular in the white-collar space, that you could say it’s just reps. People have been doing it all along like that, and so therefore to say, “I’ve done it before like this, so I’ll do it the same way.” There’s actually no best in class, no analysis, no nothing. It’s just, “I’ve done it like that before.” I think that type of judgment will disappear because, again, algorithms will be as good, if not much better at that. They’ll be better at figuring out, actually, this would be the better way to do this. That’s how you play it forward. Then the question is, if there are fundamental, wise people in the organization, people that can really take that more complex elements of judgment, how do you go from the world we have today, which is a world of apprenticeship, where people come out of college, they go and work, and they learn their way, and therefore, hopefully over time, some of them, not all of them, we know that, but some of them will develop that wisdom to be great decision makers 15, 20 years down the road? How do we do that in a world that now is saying, “I don’t need people out of college because I can do it myself, and I can do individual contributor, and I can have agents doing the work that would require some manifestation of management in the middle.” Basically, “I don’t need this stuff. I don’t need you.” It’s a little bit the story we’re in. How do you create then this apprenticeship? How do we create then wisdom? My two cents on that is that wisdom, because of what we were just discussing and what, for example, myself and Bertrand was just saying, because of more often interactions with more data-stressed information and insights, what will happen is people will get better through their own reps in whatever form they’re doing, in day-to-day life, in internships, et cetera. In some ways, that will create the accelerated growth. It’s a little bit the interactions with agents and the interactions with our beloved AI algorithms that will create that growth over time and maybe not as much with other people. That still leaves the question around social interactions, but that’s probably the way this gets sorted. Apprenticeship gets sorted through the machine and the human having more interactions in effect.Bertrand Schmitt I agree with you because when we talk about apprenticeship, in some ways a lot of time was wasted on stuff that were not that important. But in a way, that was the price you had to pay in order to be there when people make the big decision to try to get some wisdom from that one hour of interactions that’s really useful and make a difference out of your full week. But the rest of your full week was just basic stuff that you had to do like a machine in a way. Why not let a machine do that? That, for me, is a big question. You could argue there is a transition period where it could be hard. For instance, if you can work hand in hand with AI smartly while you are doing your 4, 5 years of universities, you could graduate with a very different knowledge, perspective, judgment, skill set than anyone who graduated 5 years ago. I think that part will require a question around, “How do you change education?” You see what I mean? If you keep education the same way, expecting that the output is someone that should go now into 5 years of apprenticeship, that’s not going to work because companies will be, “No apprenticeship anymore.” On the contrary, you have to come much more knowledgeable and ready to use the tools. The tools are so efficient that the bar pretty high. You need to come already very well-grounded. If the education is not doing their job, that will be trouble. That part for me, I think is often forgotten. In some ways, the new-found importance of universities as a place to, and not just universities, the trade to really deliver people who are ready for the workforce. If on the business side, the expectation can change, of course, you have to change the education on the other side. My worry probably right now is that it doesn’t look like universities are in touch with what businesses are looking for, businesses are working on. Of course, that’s very worrisome because the cost of university has increased very significantly. It’s not clear quality of education has improved at all. If anything, it could be the opposite. It’s pretty scary. Of course, it’s going to raise a lot of questions. How much is education worth in that type of situation? Maybe another point because we talk a lot about apprenticeship, how this stuff was useful, but at the same time, if we go back in time, not long ago in the ’50s, if you wanted to be a developer, for instance, ’50s, ’60s, the job was very different. There was barely any programmation language out there. You had to use punch cards. Your time truly spent doing the coding was very limited. Once you had your stuff working, then, the debugging was a total nightmare. My point is that no one is looking back to that time saying, “You know what? It was great. It was a great way to learn and to do an apprenticeship for 5 years. To do that crappy job of punching cards for the boss.” There was little value in this. Guess what? Everyone is happy it’s not being done anymore by anyone. I think we also have to see what AI is bringing in a similar way is that everyone’s job is going to become quite different. There are a lot of big parts of the job who are not going to look back with fondness. Just looking back as, “Wow, that was very machine-like type of job. I’m glad I’m done with it.” People will want to jump directly to the next step. You don’t need to go to the punch card phase to be able to be a good developer for the past 40 years. I guess it will be the same with AI.Nuno Gonçalves Pedro I think so. The difficulty we have as humans is to also visualize dramatically different scenarios and landscapes, professionally. It’s difficult for us to anticipate what are the jobs of the future. Jobs have changed a lot in the last few decades, not even the last century. What people do, the migration initially from the agricultural society to then the industrial society to then the services society, and in some ways, the shift within the services industry, and now we’re seeing another shift, so we can’t really anticipate what those jobs look like. Back to your point on education, because I think that’s a very important point. If you’re right now an undergraduate student or a postgraduate student, for that matter, and you’re not figuring out your own mechanisms of learning outside of your syllabus, outside of what your professors are telling you, et cetera, you’re going to face very difficult times. If you’re not right now using all these AI tools proficiently, all these cycles of vibe coding, co-working, et cetera, with agents in the mix, you’re going to have a really tough time. If you’re not at this point in time as proficient as someone like myself or Bertrand, and given that we’re nerds, we’re relatively proficient with a lot of these tools that are out there. On top of it, some of us have our own platforms in-house. If you’re not as proficient as we are with those tools, you’re going to have a very difficult time because then people like us won’t need you. I think that’s the sad truth. It’s like at some point, if you’re not needed, you’re not needed. Then again, you may find something else that’s more interesting for you to do. Start your own company, go join a new exciting job doing whatever it is that you need to do next, et cetera. But again, I think the bar is very high. If you’re in college right now, again, undergrad, postgraduate, this is the time of transition. This is the worst time. It’s not the best time, it’s the worst time. Because education and all these institutions haven’t adapted to it yet. You need to adapt. You need to adapt. You need to adapt. If you don’t, you’re going to pay for it, not just in the loans you need to repay, but also in terms of actually having difficulty finding your career path in those first few critical years.Bertrand Schmitt You need to be especially proactive when you’re facing this type of period where businesses are adapting as fast as they can because they all know it’s going to be survival of the fittest very quickly. Universities typically are working on a very different pace, and it’s pretty guaranteed they are not going to have adapted as fast as businesses. In time of big dramatic change, it will be trouble. It will be trouble. Yes, you will have not fun. Not saying it was part of the deal when you sign up for that loan and decided to go for university. But that’s life. There has been issues before. It’s not the first time. You have to do something about it. You talk about your perspective about, “Hey, why do we need you if you are not already fluent and very efficient with these tools and stuff?” The truth, in some ways, it’s even worse than that. Each time we spend with someone who is not efficient with all of this is less time we spend with the tools that are already providing magic for us.Nuno Gonçalves Pedro Exactly.Bertrand Schmitt It’s a very big choice of, “Hey, do I spend more time training this person?” Do I just… there is an opportunity cost. Or, do I spend more time staying at light speed? Why do I slow down to do something else in the hope that maybe I will get to return versus the light speed I’m already on? It’s a lot of tension. Again, it’s certainly new. But if we want to look back, I think you talk about the switch from agriculture and society, industrial society, and now the service industry. The reality is that, yes, we have made dramatic changes in the past before. 140 years ago, we were 90% agricultural society in Europe, in the US, 90% of us. Today, it’s what? 2%. So my point is that that’s a normal evolution. There is no progress without change. Sometimes the rate of change is soft, and sometimes you have a step function. Now it’s a step function, and it’s also a pretty fast step function. Before, it could take decades to get new stuff being put in place, to have electricity come up, this or that. Now we see that the rate of investment in AI is insane, way beyond anything we have seen before. Two, in a way, a lot of the architecture behind the scene was already there to support an even faster transition. What’s new might be the pace of the transition, how unnatural it might look. But at the same time, if you put yourself in the shoes of someone who lived 150 years ago, I mean, this was also a dramatic change for them. From horses to cars to planes to rockets, pretty big change, maybe even bigger change.Nuno Gonçalves Pedro Maybe the silver lining, just to bookend this section, is one, there will be new roles. There are a lot of things we can’t anticipate. There will be new roles, there will be new jobs being created, and new things that we can’t really quite grasp yet. The second part is that the rules are changing, and they’re changing, I would say, in general, for the better. If you are a decision-maker or an organization, and you still have your job, you’re probably making more important decisions with more data, with more tooling around you, with less red tape, hopefully over time. I know that will not hold true for all the big corporations out there that are listening to us, but it is starting to happen. Things are making an impact on how decision-making is made. There’s less and less red tape along the way in certain organizations. There are more and more fact-based discussions happening as we move along. The silver lining is better jobs, more jobs, different jobs in the future, hopefully as well. Secondly, the second part of the silver line is that the jobs that exist today, hopefully, will be more interesting, certainly on the knowledge space and on this judgment space that we’re now introducing as part of this episode. The AI-Native Company: Org, Hiring, Culture Switching gears, maybe to how does that shift? How does the company of the future look like? How does an AI native company look like? I feel there are a lot of discussions on, “Oh, you only need one person to run everything.” Let’s not go to that level. We’ve had a couple of episodes where we focused on AI as your co-founder and a couple of other elements that you guys can go back to. Let’s focus on a more evolutionary view of what’s happening to organizations, and maybe start with the org structure. In general, we should see more flat organizations where mid-level managers have to justify their pay in some ways because middle management are routers. They are normally routing tasks. It’s sometimes aggregating it, synthesizing it, and pulling it back up. Guess what? AI and agents in general are very good at that. The synthesis piece, et cetera, is not as well needed. One could say there are several elements of middle management that are valuable, like the coaching of people, the creation of apprentices, and the accountability that comes with some of middle management. But lo and behold, most of middle management is seen as a little bit of a thin line that doesn’t need to necessarily exist. I feel we’re moving into a world of smaller teams, more senior teams, where there’s more judgment at the top, where you’ll have people that both do a mix of what we used to call management in its new form, but also a lot of individual contribution. If you’re not used to that, if you’re not used anymore to be an individual in the future, again, and if you’re a very senior in an organization, maybe this is the right time to either reinvent yourself, find some other job that doesn’t require as much of that, which we’ll have plenty of those jobs for the next few decades, or maybe retire. I’ve actually, shockingly enough, seen people who have said, “You know what? This thing is changing too fast, too dramatically. My industry is changing quite aggressively right now. I’m about to retire in a couple of years. I’m just going to retire now.” I’ve literally met two people who have done that. Again, there’s nothing wrong about it. I think we’re, again, going through a step function and a huge shift, but figuring out where you fit in this new model of organizations, more senior at the top, smaller teams, more of a mix of individual contribution with management than ever was done before.Bertrand Schmitt I agree with you. In some ways, I’m not surprised that some people might say, “You know what? It’s now time to retire.” I feel a bit sad, maybe because it means you don’t like to keep reinventing yourself and changing your habits and thinking about new stuff. You were a creature of habits, I would say, if that’s your conclusion. But everyone is entitled to their own opinion, obviously, and a way of life. I guess that’s what happened, again, at regular times in the past in terms of big change. What I can see is that the rise of, you can call it the full-stack individual, someone who will have multiple roles inside the team. Before, you had to really separate the role. Especially in the US, there is such a clear separation between every role you can have in a company. Let’s take a tech company. You will have people doing design, people doing different types of designs, people doing front-end development, back-end development, and operations. You see step-by-step hyper-specialization. I have seen that, and it’s true that the level of complexity you had to deal with at some point requires some level of hyper-specialization because it will take you 6, 12 months in order to be really, really strong on a specific topic, a specific language. God forbid, trying to go deep into something that you had no real experience into. But I feel with AI, it’s a big change, actually. It’s the opportunity to go beyond that. It’s the opportunity to do more, to touch more. You can combine designing and shipping code, product managing and shipping code, being an analyst and deploying. Of course, we have to think how it works because putting a marketer shipping code to production, maybe that will get you into trouble. But I think that there must be some change. We see it changing dramatically, how fast we can get into something, something different from what we are used to. I think it would be crazy not to take that opportunity to dramatically change the scope of many positions and put an end to that hyper-specialization. I think for me, in some ways, hyper-specialization was bad. There is only so much you want to be a specialist in because a lot of things, a lot of opportunities are actually coming from the mixing of many different ideas, many different perspectives, and you lose if you go to hyper-specialization.Nuno Gonçalves Pedro I don’t think the age that is coming is the age of the generalist. I think it’s going to be the age of the multispecialist. We’re going to go into an age of multispecialization, which is a little bit, we’ve mentioned it as well in the past, what Amazon defines as an athlete or T-shaped or pie-shaped people, people that have on top an amazing ability to do general management, strategy, managing teams, et cetera, then have spikes. Spikes into business development, corporate development, product management, whatever it is. With AI and with agents, the development of those spikes, as we’ve been discussing in this episode, will actually be easier. It’s almost like a given. If you want to go deeper and deeper into a certain area, you can go much faster. I think that level of multispecialization is going to be really cool to observe. I’m not sure we’ve had an age of multispecialization over the years. Maybe people would point out, well, the Da Vinci example, people that are great across very different areas. Maybe that’s an example of multispecialization. But honestly, from my perspective, this is going to be an exciting time because of that, because you’ll have people who, instead of being just focused on this area of sales, and I only do that, they can actually and should actually do a lot of other things. So the work, as we were talking before, can be more interesting. More demanding as well, because the judgments you need to make are more complex. The context you need to actually gain needs to be gained much faster. At a level of magnitude, you haven’t been able to do it before. Talk about information overload. But actually, ultimately, the roles can be a lot more interesting, a lot more exciting, because I can jump around. If I’m an investor, in this case, we have two investors on this conversation. But if I’m an investor, one of the things that we start looking at is actually not just looking at a startup as, is this startup doing something in AI or not? Is it AI-enabled or not? Is it an AI platform or not? But actually, more fundamentally, is this an AI native startup? Meaning, organizationally, culturally, is this the company that’s already in the AI age? How is the team working? How are they defining things? It’s not just that they only have two or three people. It’s like, what are those two or three people doing? How are they doing it? What cadence are they doing it on? What tools are they using? How are they making decisions? I feel we’re still actually relatively early on that track. It’s very interesting because we’ve had all these companies raising mega rounds. First round out, we invested in one of them, but there have been many frontier labs out there raising a ton of money. But a lot of them don’t have a fundamentally different way of doing business. Of organizing themselves, of how they do the day-to-day. Although they’re working on cutting-edge stuff, with very notable exceptions, they’re actually not using it themselves. They’re not actually shifting how they do stuff themselves.Bertrand Schmitt For me, that’s very interesting because in the past, I used to be quite conservative on how you manage and run a company in the sense that if you’re already in tech, if you are already on the cutting edge of what technology can deliver, and this and that, don’t waste time trying to invent a new org structure. Just focus on delivering something great, amazing, and be great at technologies. That’s already your huge differentiator. At the time, there was no real reason to innovate on the team organization. I have seen so many teams that tried to innovate, and it was just catastrophic because there was not much to innovate on, because we had decades of optimization that we could leverage. There was no reason to invent. But here it’s very different. There is a dramatic shift in how you can organize differently a company. I don’t think there are any blueprints yet on what’s the best way to do it because it’s too new. But at the same time, I would feel very bad to invest or support a company that first is not focused on AI or AI-enabled, but at the same time is not trying to innovate on the team itself. Because if you don’t do that, you’re going to get killed by someone who is going to innovate better than you on not just the product, but on the org as well.Nuno Gonçalves Pedro Indeed. The shifts are pretty substantial. If you look, for example, just at hiring, what do you hire for? Certainly, there’s this element of the multispecialized orchestrator, which normally will be someone with quite a lot of wisdom and expertise. It doesn’t necessarily mean someone who’s old, but someone who has the ability to work with all the AI tooling and platforms out there and be an orchestrator of agents. Why do they make judgments, make decisions, move stuff forward really, really, really quickly? Again, those jobs are going to be the best jobs. The second part, I think that is very interesting, around hiring, is you’re going to skew towards the elements that are potentially either very aligned with the use of AI tooling and platform, AI expertise, or being AI native, or someone who’s used to using AI. That’s one side of the fence. On the other side, you’re going to actually be optimizing to hire people that have the characteristics that will be difficult for AI to replace immediately, like taste and the notion of fundamental accountability and notion of implications, the notion of how you affect change in organizations, how you affect change in individuals, the elements of coaching, and beyond coaching. You’ll be optimizing for those kinds of hires as well. Then, last but not least, for me, I feel that there is a momentum already happening. I think it will happen even more, which is the tendency to under-hire rather than over-hire. The moment of the good old days of blitz scaling, “Oh, let me go and hire 300 people to scale my go-to-market and just land grab market.” Now, that’s not how it’s going to work. People are going to try and first get the efficiencies in-house with top talent and see if there’s, at the end, the need to hire more people or not, rather than the other way around. I think the issue here is a little bit of what we alluded to before in this episode. There is a tax on individuals. If you hire more people, you’ll have to manage people, you’ll have to work with them, et cetera. If I don’t need to, I might as well work with the agents that the tools and platforms that I use give me access to. Because that’s a world that’s much more efficient, right?Bertrand Schmitt I’m in total agreement with you on this. It’s definitely raising way more questions than before because, again, on one side, you have the product, the technology used to build products that are completely different. At the same time, all of this is also enabling new ways to design organizations and to scale differently, especially in a world where, as we have seen in 3, 6, and 12 months, stuff that you thought were impossible are suddenly becoming possible. So you’re, “Hey, I’m going to scale and burn a shitload of money for 6 months before I know if there is any return.” Versus, “You know what? Maybe I just wait 6 months. The AI has improved enough so that we don’t need this new team. We don’t need these people to do stuff.” Because actually, if you just wait 6 months, we will have stuff coming for free from either new AI models or new AI tools or this or that. If you remember, we used to say that in mobile, things were going three times as fast as on the web in terms of pace of innovation and speed of development and stuff. I mean, with AI, it’s 5X mobile.Nuno Gonçalves Pedro Maybe even more. Yes, well.Bertrand Schmitt Maybe even more, maybe 10X. Every assumption around blitz scaling or scaling in general was based on past assumptions. It’s not based on how is the industry evolving today. Might make more sense for you to really grow your agents and spend more money on more tokens. I remember, of course, Jensen is selling his business interest, but he was saying, “Hey, for each one of my 450K engineers, he better spend 250K in tokens a year.” I’m not saying it’s the right way to say it, but I think there is some truth in it, and that would be something to think about. Have we maxed out the token usage per employee? I’m not talking in a stupid way because token maxing and wasting money has no value and is as stupid as it gets. But if you are truly getting a return on these tokens, can you use more? Can you generate more? Can you create more loops so that one engineer manages not just 10 agents, but 50 agents, but 200 agents? I think that’s the big question. We’re trying to add more people. More people means more management, more issues, more this, more that. That would be a fair question. Another piece of the puzzle is how do you build in a way your… I don’t know if it’s a digital twin, but more like the digital version of your companies represented by agents. How do you make sure that everything you do as a business is truly captured, is truly leveraged so that your agents are getting better and better? Not just because the model gets better, but because you are putting more data into it, because it has more opportunity to learn, and as a result, gets better at your specific business.Nuno Gonçalves Pedro The next big thing is culture. How does culture change? I think the biggest shift that I see is, why would you do meetings all the time?Bertrand Schmitt Yes.Nuno Gonçalves Pedro At least at Chamaeleon, we have a very small team, just by the way. We have a very small team at Chamaeleon. We’ve reduced by way more than 50% the time we spend on meetings between each other across the board, one-on-ones, partner meetings, et cetera. I think we’re really pushing to be more and more asynchronous. There’s stuff you can process via message. I was just asking one of my colleagues, “Can you just send me that prompt for that so I can just do that on CoWork?” Or “Can I just go on Mantis and do this? Can you tell me the cycle?” Or vice versa. Basically, it’s a little bit like you’re just going to do it. I don’t need to meet. I don’t need to meet all the time. There are some things where we still need to meet and interact, and we need to brainstorm at times, and we need to go to a different level of abstraction on the top end. Then on the lower end, there might be things that are a little bit more specific and governance-related and operational-related that we need to agree on that are more sticky. But otherwise, the culture is going to be biased towards build. “Go and do it,” rather than, “Let’s do a meeting.”Bertrand Schmitt Yes.Nuno Gonçalves Pedro Async is the thing. I’m more and more like we have a couple of interns this summer. “Can we async this?” They’re like, “What does that mean?” “Can we make this interaction asynchronous?” Because synchronous interactions for me are very expensive. Can you send me something that I can process, and then I can send it back to you? We don’t waste time on you giving me context and whatever. Then I’m not ready quite yet because I need to process it. Maybe I’m in between two meetings that I’m actually thinking about other things in my mind.” Again, I feel that shifts how stuff is done. One, build rather than meeting. Two, asynchronous versus synchronous. In some way, millennials had it right when they shifted a lot to messaging and stuff like that. Let’s do more asynchronous rather than synchronous, those two elements from just an operating model of the company are significant. Maybe this is a good time for me just to put one parenthesis because there’s this thing that’s bugging me as we’re talking here. Everyone who is listening to us at this point in time might be saying, “Cool, but I work for this large organization. We’re just now…” Everything we’re saying here is contextualized by time. We’re giving you extreme situations. We’re looking into the future. Some companies that we’re talking about might be doing this already as we speak. Some of them might be in the process of doing this and might in the next couple of months be doing it like we are describing it here. Some of them might take years to get there. Then again, some of the companies that might take years might actually be destroyed in between or meanwhile, and be disrupted. Some of them might not because they’re in very legacy businesses, and it’s fine, and it’s okay. Again, don’t take everything that Bertrand and I are saying today as this is gospel, and it’s going to happen tomorrow, and why the hell are we not doing it? We think that aspirationally, this is where you should be moving to as an organization, whatever size you’re at. Speed will matter, as we discussed before, but not everyone, obviously, is going to move as fast as we’re describing it here.Bertrand Schmitt Yes. Me, for instance, take inspiration often with what some of the AI labs, frontier AI labs, are doing, the way they are working, especially in OpenAI and Anthropic. They are clearly at the top of the spear in terms of what is it that you can do because they have access to models we don’t have access to, because they have unlimited tokens they can use for tasks. They hire people who are, of course, 100% on AI. They are the best example of what is achievable if you have the top minds, if you have the latest models, if you have unlimited tokens. From there, you can take that for our needs and for our situation, and others in industries that are not as advanced. Definitely, you have some time. But as you say, things are moving fast, things are changing. Wall Street is going to expect better returns because when we discuss all of this, the conclusion is that you should be able to do more with less. That’s as real as it gets at some point. By the way, that’s what you see. You see better performance, a better business performance right now. So even if you might not get disrupted, you’d better start there. For some, it might take more time, and they might still be fine.Nuno Gonçalves Pedro Maybe to bookend this section, clearly what we’re saying is organizations are going to change. Their MOs are going to change, the structures are going to change. There are elements of what we discussed before in terms of judgment that are fundamental to this. The ability that in some ways, one would say a lot of the technique of getting solutions out there, even in brainstorming or problem-solving, is going to get democratized. The algorithms are able to do that. On the other hand, having points of view and having wisdom is not necessarily democratized, necessarily by the machines. It can be facilitated, it can be more productive in achieving that level of wisdom, but wisdom still will matter at the end of the day. We’re not saying that’s out of the question. Actually, that’s going to be the asset. People who have fundamental wisdom that can come to the table and frame things. We see this even today in prompt engineering, on just creating prompts. The better your prompt is, the better the outcome is going to be, the result that you get from the algorithms. That’s not going to change, in my opinion, anytime soon. That UI interaction piece is not going to change anytime soon. Again, if you’re an organization thinking through organizational structure, culture, if you’re thinking through hiring, these are some of the elements that we think will give you an opportunity, but I would actually go one step further. On the positive side, I would say, they give you arbitrage. If you’re able to move faster than your competitors and really adapt your org faster, you’ll reap the benefits faster as well. That’s what many still say and relate to as the word innovation. That’s how innovation gets accelerated. I think there’s a huge opportunity right now for arbitrage. If you move fast, experiment, experiment on new org structures, experiment with talent, you’ll know that some of them will work well, some of them will fail miserably, so you can’t experiment on literally everything. On the other side, I think the doomsday scenario is if you don’t, if you’re on the other side and your competitor is outpacing you on trying these different organizational models, structure, hiring models, and operating models, they’ll potentially just disrupt you. They’ll do stuff that you thought you had the moat on, and lo and behold, you don’t anymore. Sometimes it comes just from org, just from injection of people with a different MRO, different operating model.Bertrand Schmitt The Human Element: Are We Underestimating It? Maybe we can move to our next section about the human elements. Are we underestimating it or are we overestimating it? The three things that are a big part of the human elements, emotion, creativity, and synthesis. Is it just soft skills, replaceable part? On the contrary, is it the durable part now that we have automated intelligence?Nuno Gonçalves Pedro I’ll start with emotion first because I think it’s probably the easiest of all the ones you’ve mentioned. Emotion is key. Many of you listening to us will know this. The way you deliver a certain message, the emotion that you have when you deliver it, just in and of itself, this could be a sentence, it’s something verbal, et cetera. Makes a difference between the person or the people on the other side actually adopting it or actually just resisting it. Emotion is critical. It’s what runs the world. Everyone talks about a bunch of things, but emotion is a currency that is still naturally human. It will be, I feel, difficult for these AI tools and platforms to recreate it fully until there’s some literally very high-definition manifestation of them as avatars or some physical manifestation of them as robots and all that stuff. It will take a while for that emotion to be manifested. Emotion, I think, is still something that we as humans have as a moat, and it’s critical. As you mentioned before, I was a strategy management consultant at McKinsey, and getting people to action is actually 80% about the delivery, communication, the emotion that you surround the project itself, more than sometimes the truth. It’s great to have the truth and to have something that is similar to the truth in terms of analysis, but in some ways, that’s not what really moves change. Change is moved by, I would argue, a significant amount of emotion and alignment on emotions.Bertrand Schmitt You could argue that’s something that most politicians have perfectly understood. If you look at most campaigns these days, everything on emotions, maybe the tagline might be one word. It’s interesting when you see from that perspective that actually it’s very little on facts, very little on all of this, but more about emotion. You could argue it’s the same for businesses in the future? That’s a fair question. I think creativity is another one that’s quite important. At the same time, it’s not so easy because I must say I’m quite amazed when I’m looking for creativity from AI, either to generate the image, to generate video, to generate audio, or to generate text. AI can be pretty creative. I still think you need to control its creativity; you need to understand what’s good, what’s bad, what’s quality, but at the same time, I can see even in creative tasks, AI can be a very strong partner. I’m talking about any creative task, like invent a name for a product, let’s brainstorm the mission for the company. AI can actually be doing a pretty impressive job. That’s the type of job where you will hire experts, where you will use some of the best people in your team to help you for days. We say, “You can do quite a lot.” It’s an interesting one because I think there is some unique human creativity, and at the same time, AI can be pretty strong at creative task as well.Nuno Gonçalves Pedro I agree. In particular, if it represents benchmarking, if it represents repetition, if it represents seeing the world and then coming up with something that presents itself as creative, to be honest, it can actually outpace humans. If it’s like genuine light bulb moments of creativity, angles that haven’t been tried before, certainly not in the same way, I think humans still have the advantage. To your point, I agree. This is not a humans-win situation. On the previous one, on emotion, still, part of it is because, also on emotion, there are exchanges. You and I might be looking at each other, and from the facial expressions and the reactions, where you judge that for AI to get there, it’s going to take a long time. There’s going to be a lot of very complex algorithmic stuff put into that for AI to be able to create synthetic emotional behaviors, but creativity, I agree with you. There are a lot more nuances to it today, where AI does have significant advantages at the end of the day. Synthesis depends. Synthesis, I feel, if we’re talking about holding a bunch of messy assumptions, contextualized inputs with different layers of data adjacent to them and then trying to create and form one coherent, fully accountable point of view that you stake something on, like a decision, a company, a business unit, whatever, I think humans have the advantage. Part of it is the complexity of what we have today with generative, pre-trained transformers, today with GPTs, where the hallucination comes through, where it’s really more statistical analysis. Over time, maybe synthesis will be a forte for AI. Right now, I think we still have that ability to really be the ultimate decision-makers and judge-makers and have that wisdom put at the table to make those decisions. Honestly, models are very good on balancing both sides, so ended up, as we say in Portuguese, neither fish nor meat. It’s to balance both sides’ answers. That’s not helpful in most cases. When you’re in a difficult position where, for example, the future of a company, company is almost dying, what do you do? I’m not sure your AI algorithms that are going to give you a great solution. Because it will give you a median or average solution, which likely will lead you to a median or average outcome, which in this case would be failure. Again, on synthesis, there are some areas of advantage for human beings. If you are looking for clearly synthesized perspectives on certain elements that are maybe less edge-focused, they’re more than the normal part of the normal distribution, then probably AI agents are brilliant at that. All the tools we have today are pretty good at that, and I think they’ll just get better over time. That’s how I see synthesis.Bertrand Schmitt I think a lot of improvements will come with a better fine-tuning of agents to what’s special about your company. Because if you just take a general agent, there is only so much. It can understand your industry, your company, and your way of working. I think that part of making sure your agents are finely trained, finely tuned on your own business, so that they can give you a really well-calibrated feedback, will have a lot of importance.Nuno Gonçalves Pedro I think that’s absolutely spot on. Maybe to end it, what is definitely different about humanity? Definitely, emotion, as we discussed, some pieces of synthesis. Creativity, maybe the light bulb creativity, not the more repeatable creativity, the one that you can put and encapsulate into processes in some ways. There are elements of us being physical, which robots can’t still recreate. That’s definitely an advantage. The embodied, we’re embodied. That’s obviously a huge advantage. With that also comes advantages because we have to interpret each other, and we have to see the complexities in physicality that land to it. Is human and the human element categorical difference? If we’re having a more philosophical discussion around this, I think it is. I think it will be for at least the foreseeable future and maybe decades to come, even in whatever scenarios we’ll discuss, which is our next section, scenarios.Bertrand Schmitt I would say projecting beyond 10 years is always pretty hard on this because, again, some of the improvements we are talking about we can imagine based on how it has evolved, but at the same time, there will be disruptions in AI. Stuff that we take for granted in terms of weakness, especially, might not be there in a few years from now. Either because it has been solved through brute force or because the field will have made significant change and improvements and discoveries, making some of our points moot. If we talk about embodiment, obviously, robots are coming. How fast, how cheap? That will be a big question. Right now, they’re not very smart. They’re usually very specialized. The more we move to a more general form factor, humanoid form factor, the more I think it will change. Also, another piece of the puzzle is that we have the assumption of agents having trouble to convince humans and stuff. At some point, we keep assuming that humans in the loop. If we’re talking about agents convincing another agent, not having embodiment might be even more efficient. That will be another perspective. Going forward, we will have not just agents we control who are doing a job and scanning the job, but agents truly interacting with other agents. You have agents controlled by one person, one team in your company, working either together or maybe not confrontationally, but trying to think and having different perspectives with another agent, controlled by other teams. I don’t think we have seen much of that now. We have seen mostly agents that are controlled by one team doing one job in one direction. Not multiple teams agents working together, or against or in parallel with another team agent. I think we will see some interesting things coming out of that.Nuno Gonçalves Pedro Scenarios Switching to scenarios, we love our two-by-twos. We haven’t done one in a while. This time it’s a two by two. We have four scenarios. I think on one axis, we would have potentially the capabilities of AI. One side would be more incremental. The other side would be the extreme full AGI. I’ll define it in a bit so that we can at least have a little bit of a definitional view on what the AGI is. Then the other axis would be how gains are distributed, concentrated versus broad. Obviously, if they’re very concentrated, it’s more unequal. It only goes to a few companies, a few people, a few individuals. If it’s broad, it’s much more dispersed through society, et cetera. AGI, just to try to define it, the formal definition of it is that it’s a hypothetical AI that matches or exceeds human capabilities across virtually all cognitive and practical tasks. In some ways, AGI can learn, reason, and adapt to novel situations across any domain. Then there are several mutations on this, but there’s one notion, or rather, there are three notions that normally are across a lot of these definitions. One is generalization, ability to seamlessly transfer knowledge from one domain to another without needing retraining, which is a very impressive skill that we humans still seemingly have. Autonomy in agency, the capacity to operate independently, set goals, plan and execute complex tasks. I think AI is their issue with agents to a lot of that extent. Then, last but not least, human parity, performing economically valuable work at or above the level of a typical human knowledge worker. If you listen to one of our last episodes, you’ll realize that Bertrand and I have slightly different views on AGI, and if it’s already here or not. I think, definitionally, maybe we have slightly different views on what the definition actually is. For me, maybe AGI is a little bit more what some would call superintelligence and generalized superintelligence. Strict to census, Bertrand is more connecting to AGI as in its prime definition. It behaves as well or better than a human thing. Maybe that’s what’s leading us to differences on whether AGI has arrived or not.Bertrand Schmitt Personally, I will have a different scale where I will put AGI, as you just said, in some ways, relatively similar in performance to your average human being. On top of it, it’s able to touch different domains that most humans are not able to do. Usually, there is some level of specializations where in AI, it can be more generic. I will put ASI, Artificial Superintelligence, as clearly the step beyond. Something that, on any dimension you pick, it’s able to beat a human expert. From my perspective, I think we already discussed that, but we are at AGI already. We have AI that can do way better, not just way better, but at least as well as humans on many topics, sometimes better. Yes, there are some topics that are not for AI yet. Embodiment, for instance, to flock with your humanoid robot in 2026. For me, we are partially there or fully there in AGI. If we take the stricter definition, ASI, we are definitely not there, but my guess is that it’s moving quite fast. We might be there in a few years from now. I don’t think we are talking about multi-decades. It’s 5 years, maybe 10. Of course, there are questions because people will say, for instance, “Hey, how do you become truly super-intelligent when all your training is based on human data?” That’s not an easy one because how do you train on that? To be way better, not just a bit better, but way better. Maybe I’m going on a tangent, but some are looking at AI learning from AI, AI being taught from AI, AI fighting with AI, AI challenging AI. The same way we saw this AlphaGo moment where AI was not trained anymore, like in chess with human moves, but has been trained to play against itself. That’s when it reached superintelligence in Go. It reached superintelligence by playing against itself and basically letting go of that human baggage, if you want, and going to the next level. What I found interesting in that, actually, first, that’s what happened, but two, there was some analysis that the average level of Go players and the top players went up after AlphaGo because AlphaGo, in a way, opened doors that humans didn’t believe were open in front of them, or they didn’t see them. They didn’t see these doors, so they didn’t bother to open them. AI opened new doors, but interestingly enough, humans improved after that, thanks to AI. You see what I mean? It was an interesting, okay, that self-learning from AI was the way to go beyond the current level of human knowledge and human expertise, but at the same time, humans were able to follow up. It was not like suddenly humans are totally useless crap. They improved. Did they still beat AI? Maybe not, but it was definitely also helpful.Nuno Gonçalves Pedro Back to our scenarios. We’re going to take the definitional extreme just for argument’s sake for scenarios. We’re going to talk about maybe what you were saying, ASI rather than full AGI, but like ASI. Again, artificial superintelligence as the extreme on the one hand. Let me talk about maybe the first scenario that would come to mind. Maybe we can call it the plateau scenario. All of this was great, but it was all smoke and mirrors. They were great at some cognition stuff. They’re a great tool. At some point, they’re going to hit a wall. Hallucinations are never going to be a thing of the past. We can’t fully trust them on really hardcore stuff. We’ll gain productivity enhancements. We’ll keep gaining those productivity enhancements, but at some point in time, we really won’t reach ASI. We really will be stuck with what we have. It’s a little bit like we get the next big thing, the next big spreadsheet, the next big internet, but it’s not going to change the whole world beyond just productivity, enhancements, and amazing tools that we have available to us that makes us much better. In that scenario, the winners will continue being fast adopters, probably small and medium businesses, because there won’t be a push for maximum speed either, so they’ll catch up at some point. Then AI native companies will be better companies than other companies, but not necessarily overall disruptors across the board. It’s not necessarily a new species of companies. It’s just companies that are a little bit better at doing stuff, which we also saw during the internet phenomenon and that first big push forward and then bubble, where we had some companies that were fundamentally different on how they operated. It took us another couple of decades for companies to be more and more digitally native along the way. Basically interesting, but it’s boring. It’s like, cool, we got tools, we got promised the world. What are the implications? All these companies that are worth trillions and trillions of dollars are not worth trillions and trillions of dollars. Because at some point we’ll face competition, commoditization. It will just be tools and platforms. They will not unlock that next stage. Therefore, this will have been a bubble, and likely it would be a hard landing to that bubble. That’s the implication.Bertrand Schmitt I would just say that, yes, I agree with you, but I would just say overall, even if it stopped today in terms of quality improvement, speed or stuff, or it barely improves, I still think we will have 10 years of madness just to leverage everything that we have today.Nuno Gonçalves Pedro Understood, Bertrand. This is a scenario. I understand, but maybe we’re going to hit a wall, and we’re going to hit that wall next year, or we’re going to hit that wall in 2 years or whatever.Bertrand Schmitt Possibly. I’m just saying we still have 10 years of goodness from that big push in AI we experienced the past few years.Nuno Gonçalves Pedro Absolutely. Agreed, but it’s boring.Bertrand Schmitt It’s boring. It’s a plateau.Nuno Gonçalves Pedro It’s a plateau. The second one is more of something that we have AI, but humans in the loop are going to be critical along the way. The judgment work that we described earlier in the episode is going to be critical to everything that happens. It’s, I would call it the augmentation scenario. The AI will be a great augmentation tool for humans, but humans will never really quite stop being in the loop. Some of the gains that AI has are broadly distributed in society and in the startup, big corporation and small medium business world. Everyone will have access to them. We humans, are still very important. We have all these augmentation things, and AI is mostly benign. There will be a couple of issues, but honestly, at the end of the day, we’re just better. We’re better, faster, more data-driven, more factually current. We’re doing stuff faster, but humans

Bestie!! If you live for the story times, the dating fails, the unbelievable love stories, and the kind of encouragement that leaves you feeling hopeful, this episode is for you! First, I'm bringing you the update you've all been waiting for! Remember our girly who was DMing me in real time after the guy she met on a dating app suddenly ghosted her, only for her to discover he had flown to Korea, where his ex-girlfriend lives? Well… the story didn't end there. She sent us the rest of what happened, and trust me, it's TEA…Then, I'm sharing one of the most unbelievable, movie-worthy love stories I've ever heard. It's the kind of story that MAKES you believe in fairytales!! You're going to FLIPPPPP.And finally, we're having one of my favorite conversations yet about finding JOY in the middle of life's hardest seasons. If you've been struggling to let go of a relationship, a situation, or a version of your life that isn't serving you anymore, I hope this episode reminds you that sometimes the hardest goodbyes are exactly what make room for the life, and the love, you've been praying for.Whether you're healing from heartbreak, waiting for your person, or just need a little reminder that your story isn't over yet, I hope this episode leaves you feeling encouraged.  Pick up bestie I'm calling!!!

BEEF Let's start with some really good news. For the first time since 2018 the US cattle herd increased by 200K head to 94.2 million head, this however is not the start of beef herd building we've been looking for. The increases are in dairy cows, the beef herd actually declined 200K head to 28.5 million head. I do see some signs of heifer retention with ranchers reserving additional head for breeding. I'm still taking this as a good sign. Additional good news: Our southern border will open to Mexican livestock with one port opening August 24 in Arizona. This entry will probably only be about 3,000 head per week, but we will take the progress. We've gone a week with no new New World screw worm cases, so let's keep the momentum going. Onto the current beef market and we continue to move lower finishing July, and I'd expect the early part of August will continue the decline.  There is an exception as ribeyes and tenderloins seem to have done their summer declines; while the rest of the market softens, they have some demand behind them to keep from further declines. Declines from last week continue though they are getting smaller, and I do think we'll see a bottom to this current market in the next couple weeks. Thin meats, rounds and chucks all moving lower, even grinds, which I almost thought invincible to market declines, are moving lower. I'd still stay ahead of your needs but as this market declines there will be opportunities.  POULTRY Chicken market is down for next week. Boneless skinless randoms, tenders and even wings are all moving lower. This strong production we've seen all year seems to finally be catching up the producers lowering prices to keep things moving. I thought we'd see a minor increase but we're going the other way. Makes chicken a great value this summer. On the avian flu beat – two weeks, no new cases. We'll take that all day long.  GRAINS Last week had all the grain markets moving higher, even corn. Well, that was last week. This week, except for wheat being affected by international unrest and domestic crop stress, corn and soy are moving back down. This week's corn closed at $4.69 down from last week $4.84. Soy closed $11.71 down from $12.26 last week. Soy oil should move lower over the next couple weeks.  PORK Pork bellies are up again this week, closing today at $159 over last week's close of $156. While I do think we have a couple more weeks to go, I think we've got a week or two more before declining again heading into fall. Right now, it's all moving higher. Bellies are about the only thing pushing higher and pork, butts, ribs and loins, steady to down slightly. DAIRY The recent run up on the CME for the block and the barrel seems to have run out of steam. Through Thursday's close block is down 8, barrel is down 5 and butter continues lower down 11. Plenty of raw material available and we're seeing a slowdown heading into August. Savalfoods.com | Find us on Social Media: Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, LinkedIn

Rosemary Barnes, CEO and founder of Pardalote Consulting, joins to discuss their new grant-funded study of blade erosion and heat fatigue in Australia. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on YouTube, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! Welcome to Uptime Spotlight, shining light on wind energy’s brightest innovators. This is the progress powering tomorrow Allen Hall 2025: Well, Rosemary, welcome back to the show.  Rosemary Barnes: Thanks, Allen. Great to be here. For, it’s been a while since we did one of these one-on-one episodes, like a, yeah, a proper, proper guest.  Allen Hall 2025: Well, this is kind of a celebratory episode because your company, Pardalote Consulting, has been awarded, uh, some funding from the Australian Capital Territory’s government for the Energy Innovation Fund. Rosemary Barnes: It’s a really good program that the ACT government has to try and get energy innovation In the state. It’s not a state actually, it’s technically a territory. Little more than just Canberra, the city. Uh, but there are actually quite a few, like, really interesting energy-related companies here, partly ’cause of the, the fund I think helps, but also just tracing back like, [00:01:00] uh, y- you know, in the 20-teens, Australia had a really conservative government that hated renewable energy, and the ACT government had a commitment at that time to 100%, um, 100% renewable electricity for the, the government. And that was one of the only programs that was resulting in a lot of, um, you know, clean energy projects being built, and one of the conditions that they put on that, uh, for people that would win PPAs with the ACT was that you had to have your headquarters in Canberra. So we’ve actually got quite a few, quite a few really cool, innovative companies out of here. Um, like Neoen’s headquarters here. Windlab, uh, yeah, was, was founded here and still has a lot of people here. Pardalote obviously, and you know, a few other companies as well. So despite it being a small city of like, I don’t know, maybe it’s up to 400,000 or something people by now, um, yeah, there is actually quite a lot going on here for energy. Allen Hall 2025: And the Energy Innovation Fund is funded by the wind and solar operators in the area, and your particular [00:02:00] effort has really global consequences. You’re focusing on two areas involving how wind turbines survive Australia, but more, uh, of relevance is to just really tough conditions which exist not just in Australia but around the world. What two areas are you going to focus on?  Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. So the two focus areas are leading edge erosion and high temperature fatigue, which we can probably get into the definitions of those in a minute. But basically my, um– what led me to wanna have a project like this was that when I moved back to Australia in 2021, I– and I started working in O&M, uh, I noticed that the wind turbines that I would look at, the blades that I would look at here behaved really differently to the ones that I worked with overseas. You know, es- especially with leading edge erosion, like often I would be doing a condition assessment of a, you know, a new wind farm. Um, might only have been operating for, you know, two years. That’s a pretty common time for people to get in and do a condition assessment [00:03:00] because their warranty period is about to end and they wanna, you know, make sure that everything is okay. Um, and I would just notice that often, like 90, 100% of blades would already have bad erosion after just a couple of years, which is super-duper fast. And then there are some tools available to check, um, like what kind of erosion are you likely to experience on your site. Like is it a higher severity erosion site or a, a low severity one? Um, and you basically, you know, the status quo globally is to just look at the annual rainfall, um, and the tip speed. And if you’ve got, you know, high for both of those, that’s a bad erosion site. And if you’ve got low for both of those, it’s a, a low erosion site. But when I plotted out the wind farms that I knew had really bad erosion problems onto, you know, a chart with those two axes, I just saw a random distribution of dots. You know? Like, this was not– uh, this had no predictive value for Australian wind farms. And so that led me to believe that, okay, um, you know, things are a bit [00:04:00] different here. Makes sense, you know, most of the knowledge that we have about how wind turbines operate, it’s been developed and validated mostly in Northern Europe. You know? Like it’s, it’s Denmark and the surrounding countries that had, like, the bulk of the early wind energy. First few decades of knowledge were, you know, were mostly there. Of course, there were some other, um, places that had wind turbines, but, you know, most of the The OEMs have been operating for decades, came from Denmark. And I know when I lived in Denmark, the rain there is very different to the rain in Australia. So in Denmark, it’s basically always raining, right? Like, it’s just… Like, even if it’s not raining, you’re still gonna get wet when you go outside ’cause it’s just, like, the air has this just amazing ability to just hold onto moisture. Um, but it’s very, very gentle. But, you know, over an entire year of most days having gentle rain, that adds up to a lot. Whereas in Australia, and especially if you go, like, north to Queensland, it rarely rains. It’s mostly just dry, and when it [00:05:00] does rain, it’s like a tap turns on, and I, I swear you will get bruised from the rain droplets hitting your skin. You know, they just have so much energy in them. So I think that that i- you know, when you look at just the overall rainfall, you really hide something important about how erosion, um, can progress. Then, um, there’s other places in Australia that have very different characteristics. Again, they don’t have that kind of really intense rain but, you know, some of those sites are also having really bad erosion. And so it just occurred to me, I did a lot of research, you know, into what’s going on and, you know, the academics are studying erosion a whole lot, and they’ve got, you know, a lot of standardized tests and, you know, products are developed according to these standardized tests. But the standardized tests don’t actually resemble reality, and especially they don’t resemble reality in Australia. And so my client started asking me, “Okay, you know, the products that we have are, are terrible. We have to replace them every couple of years. It’s, um, causing big problems with also [00:06:00] the amount of energy that you’re losing.” One of the types of, um, leading-edge erosion or leading-edge problems that we have in Australia is that the, the coatings tend to peel off and make these, like, big flakes which will just massively disrupt the airflow, can cause y- you know, at least a few percent AEP loss, and maybe up to five. And even worse than the AEP loss is the revenue loss because it affects it most at, you know, lower wind speeds. Um, you get a bigger hit than at rated wind speeds. So there’s a variety of problems going on with leading edges in Australia, which mean that I, I basically… My clients would ask, “What product should we put on to prevent having to, you know, constantly replace this?” ‘Cause it costs, like- you know, 30, $40,000 per turbine to replace the protection, not to mention, you know, one or two days of downtime. It’s expensive, and I basically, I didn’t have a good answer for them. What, what product should they put on? I don’t know. No, we, we don’t know. One, we don’t know what the [00:07:00] specific, um, characteristics are that are… what the specific local environment, local conditions are that are accelerating leading-edge erosion, one. And two, all of the products tend to be tested around this, you know, there’s this protocol that academics have come up with, and they’ve kind of like assumed that this is representative of how things behave in the field, and it’s– I don’t think it’s particularly true anyway, but it’s especially not true in Australia. There are a few companies that are testing to different standards. Um, definitely applaud them. But without knowing wha- what are the conditions truly like in Australia, uh, it’s really hard to advise, like, what kind of tests should you be demanding from a product you’re considering to be sure that you’re gonna put it on and not gonna be replacing it again in two years. Allen Hall 2025: Because that’s really the trouble in Australia is when you get offered products They have been tested generally in somewhere in Europe and maybe in the United States, and then when they go to [00:08:00] Australia, it’s really unknown as to how those products will do, which is a huge risk for the Australian wind market as to what to choose, how to choose, is it– what’s real in terms of test data. So now you’re gonna go out and do what? Are you gonna put sensors out by the wind farms? Are you gonna try to do more of a statistical summary of the actual environment around wind farms using existing data? What’s the approach here?  Rosemary Barnes: It’s all of the above, but the part that is supported by the grant is that we’re gonna have enough money to be able to buy some scientific-grade sensors and put them on, um, a sample of Australian wind farms. So we’re gonna be looking at a lot more characteristics about the rain than simply is it raining now, you know, how many millimeters per hour. We’re also gonna be investigating, you know, every kind of characteristic of, of that, um, of that rain, um, including, yeah, like the, the energy that’s in it, for example. A, a bunch of stuff. I won’t get into every single [00:09:00] parameter. Um, and you know, other things as well, like measuring UV, solar radiation, um, particles, because, you know, in Australia we have a lot of dirt roads, which I know is very common in wind farms around the world, but Australian dirt roa- roads are always dry and dusty, like 99% of the time, so that’s one of the things that y- you know, maybe that’s causing a difference. Um, so basically putting sensors all over a bunch of wind turbines and then monitoring the erosion, um, a combination of some real-time monitoring and also looking at inspection, um, drone inspection images annually. We also have a- an option where we’ll just be using SCADA data and inspection images, so that’s like a lower cost version where we can combine that with the findings from the scientific-grade instrumented turbines to build up a picture of what types of conditions lead to accelerated erosion.[00:10:00] Allen Hall 2025: So the SCADA data will, will have some information inside of it, you think, that, uh, will correlate to the weather outside?  Rosemary Barnes: It has some Additionally, we can look up, um, you know, just the weather data, like how many millimeters fell during which 15-minute interval throughout the day, what was the temperature. SCADA will tell us also what the temperature was, um, what the speed of the turbine was, so you can calculate the tip speed, ’cause that’s an important thing. Um, yeah, so it’s, it’s two, it’s two tiers of data collection. The scientific grade sensors, as you can imagine, are, are really expensive and y- you know, the, the grant project has contributed a, a lot of funding, um, but it’s not enough to put those, yeah, put a little mini lab on top of every turbine across Australia, obviously. So that we’re using s- doing selectively, and then we can increase the number of wind farms that are included in the study by just doing this, um, cheaper version of the SCADA [00:11:00] plus, uh, weather data that’s available.  Allen Hall 2025: So what are some of the risks on the temperature side for all the high-temperature regions of Australia that have wind turbines? Clearly it’s generally warmer in Australia than it is in, in Scandinavia and Northern Europe. What kind of temperatures are we talking about on the ground?  Rosemary Barnes: Uh, well, temperatures here can get pretty close to 50 degrees. Um, and if you’ve ever been inside a wind turbine blade on a, even a mildly hot day, you’ll know that the temperature inside a wind turbine, and especially inside the blade, is much hotter than what it is, uh, what the ambient temperature is. So this project is one– I’ve actually been talking about this project for, yeah, like over 10 years now. Ever since I started, I moved to Denmark, started working for a wind turbine manufacturer, I had done– I had just finished doing my PhD on composite materials, structural design, and analysis. So, um, yeah, very, very familiar with, [00:12:00] you know, how composite materials work and, in particular, the effect that temperature has on them. I mean, like most materials, when composites get warmer, they get softer, and that is really important for a w- a wind turbine blade. You know, if it gets, um, less stiff, then you’re gonna get a lot more strain, and that is going to affect your fatigue behavior. Y- you know, fatigue is just the application of a little bit of, a small amount of strain. It’s not gonna cause damage, but when you apply it millions, tens of millions of times, like you do in a, o- over a wind turbine’s operate, um, operating lifetime, then that builds up. And, you know, wind turbine blades are a very fatigue-driven design. Um, it’s one of the most important things to consider when you’re designing a wind turbine blade. And so when I got to Denmark and I learned how materials are qualified and how the qualification is treated in the certification process, I just realized it’s not particularly conservative, and also that some of the assumptions that are made that [00:13:00] wo- again, they worked really well in more moderate climates where wind turbines have had most of their developmental history. You know, it’s not such a big deal there if you test at room temperature. Your wind turbine blade is spending most of its operating lifetime at room temperature or below. It’s, it’s rarely, you know, above 30 degrees in Denmark and most of Northern Europe and, you know, also a lot of, um, a lot of America, not, not all of it But, um, in Australia it has just extended periods above that temperature and even exceeding the temperature where, you know, wind turbines have an operating limit and after that they will shut down. But the operating limits are based on ambient temperature. It’s not based on what’s the temperature in the laminate, which is what really matters for blade lifetime. So anyway, I’ve been obsessed, like honestly obsessed about this issue for 10 years. Talked about it with anybody who would listen . But then when I started working in O&M in [00:14:00] Australia and I started seeing some wind farms with an abnormal number of cracks early… again, early in their lifetime, you know, I think one of the wind farms I was looking at was maybe three years old or four at the time. I think it was three actually, and had a lot of cracks, and I looked at a few years in a row and it was more and more cracks every year and I’m like, “Oof, this really looks like end of life fatigue behavior.” A- actually it’s not, y- you know, there’s this concept of a bathtub curve where, um, when you’re looking at failures in components, in, in anything, not just in, um, wind turbine blades, but you know, like you’d start– it’s called a bathtub because, you know, when it starts operating, you’ll get quite a lot of failures. Anything big, any manufacturing defects or anything are gonna cause failures quite fast, and that kind of drops off over time as all of those, uh, get addressed. And then you have, you know, the bulk of your operating life, it’s like pretty low level, pretty, pretty constant for a long time and then as you get towards the end of the [00:15:00] life, you start to see failure rates rise up again. That’s your fatigue failures, your end of life fatigue failures. And so when I saw the same types of cracks more and more each year, I’m like, “This looks like, you know, the foot end of the bathtub, not the head end.” And, uh, it made me worried and I’ve now seen that across a few wind farms in Australia at, um, hotter places. There’s a few blade types that are more prone to it than others, but at this point it’s still a suspicion that that’s what’s going on. I mean, a suspicion backed by a lot of, a lot of theory and knowledge of how the certification process works. But this project now we’ve got some funding to actually go put some sensors onto wind turbines, actually learn what the temperatures are in the blades throughout the whole laminate, um, not just the, you know, on the outside surface or not just the ambient temperature, but actually, you know, develop a temperature gradient across the whole, um, the whole laminate in the blade shell. Um, and [00:16:00] then we’re going to be doing a bunch of modeling basically to look at what is the effect of these different temperatures that blades are really seeing and how much would we expect to… that to decrease a lifetime. And then we should also be able to say, you know, if you have this issue in your wind farm, you might be able to change your operation a little bit and extend your lifetime a lot. Because this one, it’s real– like, in contrast to leading edge erosion, leading edge erosion is just, it’s, you know, every wind turbine has it to a certain extent, and it, it’s always there, but it’s a relatively minor cost to fix it. You know, like it sounds like a lot, like 30, $40,000 per wind turbine, but, um, you know, compared to if you’ve got to replace every blade across your fleet because they’re all, you know, at the end of their life after five years, you know, that’s obviously shocking. And, you know, that’s a bad example, but even in a y- you know, like a less extreme example, maybe [00:17:00] after 15 years you have to do a, you know, a f- a fleet-wide campaign to strengthen blades or something. It’s, you know, m- many millions of dollars for that, and so it c- could make sense to be able to learn, okay, what, what hours of operation should we be avoiding? Additionally, because when it’s super-duper hot in Australia, usually you’ve got heaps of solar power and the electricity price is not that high. So I, I think that there– and I don’t, obviously, before we’ve done the project, I don’t know what the threshold is. But in both cases, we will be aiming to improve the knowledge of how you can operate to avoid these periods of accelerated damage. Allen Hall 2025: Do you think you’re seeing more fatigue-like damage due to the blades operating when it’s hot or not operating when it’s hot, with maybe less airflow around the blade and maybe less cooling going on is just a temperature soak At rest? [00:18:00] Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. It’s interesting because the temperature is higher if it’s not rotating, um, because you get a whole lot of, um, convective heat, heat transfer when the turbine is operating. So your temperatures are not gonna get as hot when operating as when they’re standing still. However, if it’s standing still, they’re only very lightly loaded. Like, yes, they’re gonna get, um, blown by, by gusts and, um, have a little bit of bending, but it’s, it’s very, very small compared to, uh, if it is y- you know, operational loads. Uh, assuming that you’re not in the middle of a s- a storm. But yeah, a storm probably doesn’t come with 50 degrees temperatures.  Allen Hall 2025: And what part of the blade is susceptible to these higher temperatures? Is it the resin? Is it the fiberglass or carbon fiber? Or is it the, the glue, the bond joints? What part are you focused on? Rosemary Barnes: The resin is the main part that I’m focused on. It gl- it could be an issue for glue too, actually. I haven’t even looked into what the, um, yeah, temperature assumptions are with, with glue, with [00:19:00] bond lines. But the failures that I’m seeing in the field are not, are not bond line issues. It’s, it’s, um, a laminate problem. Allen Hall 2025: What about balsa and foam inside of the blade? Are they affected by the temperatures or are they pretty temperature stable?  Rosemary Barnes: I don’t think they’re affected at these kinds of temperatures, no. They, they don’t really do much actually. The, the core materials, like it, it is very important that they’re, that they’re there, but their job is really to keep the fiberglass separated from its- itself to make it stiffer. So, um, yeah, that’s, that’s unlikely to be a, a major source of problems.  Allen Hall 2025: So this study is gonna work over about three years, and you have a number of wind farms that are participating. Are you looking for more wind farms to participate in Australia?  Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I mean, we can, um, have as many as, as people want to join. We’ve got quite a good selection so far. Definitely can always welcome more. A, a bit limited in how many can get the really, um, good sensor [00:20:00]package, because the grant funding is a, you know, a certain amount, and that’s paying the bulk of those sensors. So, um, those spots are limited. So if anybody wants to really zone in on what is specifically causing erosion on their site, you know, if you know that you have got leading edge protection that is not good enough and you have to replace it soon, but you don’t know what to replace it with, then, you know, that would be the kind of wind farm that might want to consider, yeah, joining this and, um, you know, getting these sensors on their, um… We’re putting them on top of the nacelles, most of them. Um, yeah, so that would be a good match then. Um, and then, yeah, for the ones that are doing the SCADA data and, um, weather data- There’s not such a, a hard limit on how many we can have join like that. So yeah, we can have more, more like that.  Allen Hall 2025: In the temperature fatigue effort, i- is that still looking for participants or are there particular wind turbine types or manufacturers that you’re [00:21:00] looking for to participate? Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, I think, um, I, I mean yes, we can have more of those. That’s a simpler, a, a simpler issue as well. The sensors are not so expensive and, um, it’s, yeah, it’s a, it’s a simpler project to join that one. We only need, you know, a couple of turbines per site, so it won’t be such a, uh, an involved process to get everything up on into the turbines. And in terms of who might like to join that, I would say anybody that is in a really hot area where, you know, where they see a lot of days over 30 degrees, and if they see any days, you know, getting into the high 40s, then I would say that that’s worthwhile. Or even I have seen this issue in some milder sites, um, yeah, depending on the, on the blade type as well. It is more common with polyester resins. They have a, a lower op- uh, maximum operating temperature than epoxy resins. But then also just anybody that has noticed just, hey, [00:22:00] we’ve got a lot of cracks, and it seems like we’re getting more and more cracks every year, which to be honest, can be hard to keep track of if you’re… If you’ve got a full service agreement, uh, you know, an OEM managing your wind farm The early signs of this are gonna be category one and category two cracks. They’re not in exactly the same location. It’s, you know, it’s a tricky one. Normally, if you’re looking at a serial issue, then you’re going to have, uh, well, you know, your ideal pattern for a serial issue is the exact same thing happening over and over again. And so it is harder to pull this out. It also really would be very rare for it to be happening in the first two years or three years, whatever your serial defect liability period is. So it’s quite hard. But, um, another group of wind farms that might like to consider it is if you know that in, you know, a certain number of years you have to renegotiate your service agreement or, you know, it ends and you might have to take over yourself, then this’ll be a really good way for you to [00:23:00] understand, you know, have I got a ticking time bomb here? Um, because it’s not something that you’re gonna be aware of if you haven’t been, you know, doing some really, really in-depth shadow, shadow monitoring of your blades, you know, running your own inspections and looking at every single damage, not just category three, four, five, but lower ones. So yeah, I mean, there’s a, a wide variety of people that, that could be interested in joining. Allen Hall 2025: Are you expecting a number of manufacturers that make leading-edge protection or involved in resin creation, some– there’s a number of resin companies and a variety of resins that are used globally, sort of interchangeably at times. Are you expecting some of those companies to participate in this effort just to learn about the Australian environment? Rosemary Barnes: I think it would be a good opportunity to test out some products and see how they behave in the Australian context. I think that that would be a really good selling point, but I, I have to say that most of the companies doing that sort of thing that wanna enter Australia, they don’t [00:24:00] really consider… Like, from the perspective of wind farm owners in Australia, if you can’t show us wind farms in Australia where this has worked and, you know, show us a before or after, you know, the old LEP lasted Two years and our LEP is going on four years now with no damage. It, you know, unless you’ve got a before and after like that, you can tell us however many turbines that you’ve got installed around the world, but, um, we don’t consider it validated, y- you know? It’s not validated for Australian conditions yet. And I do have this same discussion over and over again with, you know, not just leading edge protection, but all kinds of, um, you know, manufacturers of whatever doodads that you put on to improve a, a wind turbine. It’s so different to Australia. Things break so fast. And I’m talking everything, you know, like vortex generators fall off and, um, yeah, like, uh, you know, bits of lightning protection systems fall off, seals just [00:25:00] crumble and disintegrate. Um, and it, you know, we’re very wary of, of new products. So I, I do– I mean, I’m thinking of it more from my client’s point of view than from the product manufacturer’s point of view. But one thing that I wanna get out of this pro- project is to be able to answer one of the most common questions that I get is, which is, what leading edge protection should I be putting on my turbine? And for now, I don’t know. I, I know a range of products that don’t work in Australia, and not much more than that. So, um, yeah. And it’s also, you know, Australia’s a very varied place with lots of different kinds of climate too. So it’s not gonna be like, you know, the product that works in Queensland is the same one that’s gonna work in Tasmania, which is the same one that’s gonna work in Western Australia. You know, um, so it, this project is gonna really pull out what are the site specific issues you’ve got at your site and what kinds of, um, you know, tests would we need to see a product um, perform in order to know that this [00:26:00] is gonna last on your site. Allen Hall 2025: W- what is the outcome of this project or these two projects? Are they gonna be reports or, uh, a, a continual monitoring system that’s designed for the Australian environment? How do you see this going?  Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, so one part of it is, um, developing a way to identify periods of accelerated damage and to know not to operate during that time. So we call it protective operation. Uh, so that would, uh, help you if, yeah, you’re trying to extend the life of something or increase the amount of time before you have to repair, then y- you know, that would be useful to have that knowledge. And it will be as simple as just an alert saying, “Hey, accelerated damage conditions. Consider, you know, if you wanna keep on operating.” And, you know, if the price of electricity is super high at that time, they may want to push through, and if it’s low, they probably won’t want to. So that’s one thing. Um, especially, you know, as wind turbines get to their, near the end of their life. I’ve got some clients whose wind farms only have, you know, [00:27:00] maybe five years operation left. They just simply don’t wanna repair their leading edge protection again. They just, they, they don’t wanna do that. So they would be happy to, you know, reduce operation a bit and have their turbine limp through to the end of the period. Y- you know, you want everything to wear out at once. You don’t want brand-new leading edge protection on a turbine that’s going to come down in a couple of years. Um, so, you know, that’s, that’s one part of it. And then the other thing is, you know, turbines earlier in their lifetime, how can we optimize the maintenance schedule with leading edge erosion? Um, so, you know, like it’s a lot cheaper to, uh, replace the LEP if you get– catch it early, but then you don’t wanna be catching it too early and replacing it, you know, constantly when you, you don’t need to. So, um, yeah, it, this, having this knowledge will enable a site-by-site operations and maintenance strategy with respect to leading edge protection. We also have some sites who are having trouble. They’ve got a full service agreement, and the OEM is [00:28:00] responsible for, um, doing the leading edge erosion repairs and protection replacement, but the owner is on the hook for paying for it. At the other end, we’ve got people with full service agreements where technically the, um, manufacturer is supposed to be doing the leading edge protection and paying for it, but they argue about what, when does it need to be done. Because, you know, um, the operator might think if there’s no structural risk, then we don’t need to be replacing it. And in the meantime, you’ve got turbines spinning around for years and years and years with, you know, these huge flakes of leading edge protection s- you know, causing the flow at the tip of the turbine to, to detach and to stall, and horrible aerodynamics, huge losses in power generation and revenue. And they’re having a big fight about, you know, is this necessary to do or not? And then, you know, they’re just gonna put the exact same product on again ’cause the [00:29:00] OEMs are re- all really, really wedded to their own particular brand. It’s like, “Well, last time we had this product and it was factory applied, it lasted one year before it s- it was worse than, you know, if it wasn’t there at all. Uh, we don’t really want you to put that one on again.” And so, you know, having the information that they need to be able to, you know, really bring data to these discussions and, you know, makes a, yeah, data not drama. That’s a, a good approach I think, um, for any kind of negotiation and especially in the case of leading edge erosion. And then for the high temperature fatigue part of the problem, aside from, you know, just wanting to know are your blades aging, should you be looking at remediation action or changing the operation, the other really big key thing is, uh, you might need to have a fight with y- your OEM about if this turbine has been designed and operated correctly. And so then having the data from this, um, project is going to give you the information that you need to come into that [00:30:00] argument with, again, the data not the drama. Um, and to, you know, in- increase your chances of succeeding in that kind of really tricky negotiation.  Allen Hall 2025: So if you’re an OEM or a manufacturer of equipment, an ISP, an operator, pretty much all aspects of wind operations, you probably ought to be getting a hold of Pardalote Consulting and Rosemary to talk about the opportunity to participate in this study. How do people get ahold of you to, to do that?  Rosemary Barnes: People can go to our website, pardaloteconsulting.com, and get in touch via the contact form there, or you can, uh, look me up on LinkedIn, Rosemary Barnes. That’s probably the easiest, fastest way to get ahold of me personally.  Allen Hall 2025: Well, Rosemary, congratulations on the Energy Innovation Fund Awards and the new three-year effort. If you are interested in participating with Pardalote Consulting and working with Rosemary and her team [00:31:00] in Australia, reach out to her on LinkedIn and get that process started, because this report and the data from all this analysis that’ll happen over the next couple of years will be important to the wind industry. So you need to spend some time and get ahold of Rosemary and get this process started now. So Rosemary, congratulations. Uh, thanks for being back on the podcast, and looking forward to, uh, the next couple of years. It sh- should be exciting.  Rosemary Barnes: Thanks so much, Allen.

Topics covered in this episode: Some more things about Django I've been enjoying Who cleans up after the vibe-coding party? Where Did All Your AI Tokens Go? AgentsView to the rescue! Careful with phishing all Extras Joke Watch on YouTube About the show Sponsored by us! Support our work through: Our courses at Talk Python Consulting from Six Feet Up Connect with the hosts Michael: Mastodon / BlueSky / X / LinkedIn Calvin: Mastodon / BlueSky / X / LinkedIn Show: Mastodon / BlueSky / X Join us on YouTube at pythonbytes.fm/live to be part of the audience. Usually Tuesday at 7am PT. Older video versions available there too. Finally, if you want an artisanal, hand-crafted digest of every week of the show notes in email form? Add your name and email to our friends of the show list, we'll never share it. Calvin #1: Some more things about Django I've been enjoying Julia Evans is learning "2010-style" web dev (Django + SQL + server-rendered HTML) after years of Go backends and JS-heavy frontends Query builders: likes defining custom QuerySet classes with chainable filter methods (.approved().future().with_tags()) — more readable than raw SQL Template filters: highlights urlize, linebreaksbr, json_script, and especially querystring for building/modifying query-string links in templates Migrations: still loves Django's auto-generated migrations — 19 and counting on her project Skips inheritance for class-based views; prefers function-based views for sharing code, though fine using Django's own mixins/interfaces Performance surprise: CPU profiling (via py-spy) — not slow DB queries — revealed the culprit; she'd accidentally disabled the cached template loader, and re-enabling it took throughput from ~2-3 req/s to ~12 req/s on a $10/mo VM Michael #2: Who cleans up after the vibe-coding party? FT Magazine piece by Sam Learner (July 11) on AI coding tools overwhelming open source maintainers - sent in by listener Dylan McConnell, whose main point was that this ran in the Financial Times, not a dev blog. cURL as the case study - Daniel Stenberg has been the only full-time person on it for years; libcurl has been installed an estimated 20+ billion times with 3,000+ listed contributors. Bug bounty killed - cURL ended its paid security bounty program in January, citing an "explosion of AI slop reports" that take real time to debunk and drain morale. Extractive contributions - authoring a PR is now nearly free, reviewing one still costs a human; tldraw's Steve Ruiz closed outside contributions entirely, asking why he'd want someone else writing the easy part. Guido weighs in - van Rossum says projects are holding emergency meetings over the slop flow, and notes LLM patches tend to touch unrelated parts of a file, making review more tedious. "Vibe Coding Kills Open Source" - paper from Miklós Koren's group: packages frequently recommended by coding models saw big download jumps with no matching engagement, breaking the reputation loop that sustains maintainers. Stack Overflow flatlined - over 100,000 questions a month before ChatGPT, under 1,500 last month, with the response rate cut roughly in half; the public archive is now stale training data. The course-creator angle - Josh Comeau's newest web dev course launched at about a third of prior enrollment, and he worries about devs who never learn which questions to ask. But the most interesting portion is what was omitted. Focused on: The end of the curl bug-bounty Omitted: High-Quality Chaos Why the omission is interesting It fits a narrative. The FT piece is a maintenance-and-decline story, and January-Stenberg is a perfect witness for it. April-Stenberg complicates it - same person, same project, better data, opposite direction on the specific claim being used. The tell is already in the article. Learner quotes Stenberg saying AI tools are much better at finding problems than fixing them. That's the April thesis in one line, and it goes undeveloped. Reason for the shift is process, not vibes. Killing the bounty removed the cash incentive and the venue change filtered the rest. Worth saying out loud, because "AI reports got better" isn't quite it - "no bounty plus a real triage platform" is closer. Joke too: Sarah O'Connor wrote a related piece (is this just before skynet launches?) Calvin #3: Where Did All Your AI Tokens Go? AgentsView to the rescue! Local-first desktop/web app for browsing, searching, and analyzing your past AI coding agent sessions (Claude Code, Codex, Copilot, Cursor, Gemini, Aider, and dozens more) Auto-discovers session files on your machine — no config needed; everything stored locally in SQLite, no cloud/accounts agentsview usage is a drop-in ccusage alternative — reads from pre-indexed SQLite, reports run 80–220× faster on large histories New Activity dashboard shows peak concurrency, active vs. idle time, agent-minutes, and cost — filterable by project/agent/machine, with a -json CLI report too Full-text + optional semantic search across every session; also imports Claude.ai/ChatGPT chat exports Install via pip install agentsview, uvx agentsview, brew install --cask agentsview, or download desktop binaries from GitHub Releases Michael #4: Careful with phishing all The situation I pass this along because it was a pretty sneaky bit of targeted phishing, and happened to play off an old interaction in bandit's repo. As usual with phishing scams there are a bunch of tells that this isn't legitimate, but just enough plausibility that I could see falling for it in a weak moment. Relative nobodies like me haven't historically been worth the effort to hit with scams this specific. Agents change the game though :-/. Be careful out there folks! Original message From: "Patrick (Blacktrace)" [HTML_REMOVED] To: LISTENER EMAIL Subject: Your Bandit #1350 (B105 NextToken false positive) -- just fixed that exact case Date: Wednesday, July 15, 2026 12:02 AM Hi AJ, Saw your Bandit issue #1350 -- the B105 hardcoded-password false positive on the string NextToken. I build a deterministic gate that filters that class of Bandit noise, and #1350 was literally the case I just fixed: NextToken / next_token / page_token / nextPageToken now stay quiet, while a genuine hardcoded token like api_token="sk-live-..." still fires. Verified against your exact case. 30-second paste: https://blacktrace.co/noise-eraser Where it still trips, published: https://blacktrace.co/kruc Curious whether it clears what you hit -- and if it trips on something of yours, that's the more useful reply. Patrick, Blacktrace I asked Claude for some analysis too. It was pretty good at finding them. The message name-drops enough real detail to feel legit, but the structure is pure phishing - everything in it exists to get AJ onto blacktrace.co. The strongest ones: Freemail sender, corporate signoff. Signs as "Patrick, Blacktrace" but sends from emailpjv@gmail.com. Real company outreach comes from the company domain, not a personal Gmail - and there's no last name. Over-specific targeting. It mirrors AJ's exact public activity - issue #1350, the B105 rule, the NextToken false positive, even the token variants. That's the "just enough plausibility" AJ flagged, and it's exactly what agents make cheap: scrape a GitHub issue, auto-generate tailored bait. Legit cold outreach rarely reads your history back to you this precisely. The entire payload is two links. Strip the technical flattery and the message is just "paste here" plus "see results here." When the whole point of an email is the click, that's the tell. "30-second paste." Low-friction urgency, and "paste" most likely means paste your source into their tool - handing your code to a stranger's site. Exfiltration dressed as convenience. Brand-new, no-reputation domain. blacktrace.co has no track record, and the name is doing some ominous work. The /kruc slug is random noise, not how real product pages get named. Precise-sounding jargon that's actually vague. "Deterministic gate," "noise-eraser" - impressive, empty. Bolted onto correct real details (B105 is the Bandit hardcoded-password test, sk-live- is a Stripe live-key prefix) to borrow credibility. The disarming close. "if it trips on something of yours, that's the more useful reply" - engineered humility that flatters your expertise and baits a response. Makes engaging feel like you're doing them a favor, which drops your guard. Extras Calvin: DjangoCon US 2026 is rapidly approaching, August 24-28, Chicago Ruff v0.16.0 massively expands its default rule set Ruff now enables 413 rules by default, up from 59 https://astral.sh/blog/ruff-v0.16.0 Michael: Completely redesigned the home page. Try /insights in Claude Code (terminal) Joke: We're Safe

Makes sense, doesn't it? Secondly, the .22 LR, when combined with modern suppressors and short barrels, changes the equation for home defense. MichaelBane.TV - On the Radio episode # 301. Scroll down for reference links on topics discussed in this episode. Disclaimer: The statements and opinions expressed here are our own and may not represent those of the companies we represent or any entities affiliated to it. Host: Michael Bane Producer: Flying Dragon Ltd. More information and reference links: Violent Crime Dropping https://www.yahoo.com/news/us/articles/homicide-rate-dropped-historic-lows-113047039.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2026/07/24/crime-rates-many-offenses-are-plummeting-across-us-for-reasons-that-arent-simple/ https://www.npr.org/2024/12/25/nx-s1-5230782-e1/the-carjacking-rate-has-started-to-drop-after-a-disturbing-jump-in-previous-years Crime Prevention Research Center/John Lott .22s for Self Protection?/Greg Ellifritz, Active Response Training Why Carry a .22?/Greg Ellifritz, Active Response Training .22 for Home Defense/USCCA Forums Top 5 Best .22LR for Self-Defense/Cassandra McBride, Ammo.com MTM Case-Gard HLST Shooting Table The Music of Paradise Husky The Music of Randy Sharp

Louis is joined in the Spotify studio by author, YouTuber and inequality economist Gary Stevenson. Gary tells Louis about growing up in a Mormon family, his disagreement with Rory Stewart, and why he thinks a wealth tax could solve financial inequality.  Please note this episode was recorded before Gary announced he was stepping back from his YouTube channel.    Warnings: Strong language.     Links/Attachments:    Documentary: How to Get Filthy Rich with Gary Stevenson (2026) - Channel 4  https://www.channel4.com/programmes/how-to-get-filthy-rich-with-gary-stevenson     Book: The Trading Game, Gary Stevenson (2024)   https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/455809/the-trading-game-by-stevenson-gary/9781802062731    Podcast: The Rest is Politics: 144. Gary Stevenson: From Teenage Drug Dealer to Millionaire Trader (2025)  https://open.spotify.com/episode/5vfmQmoA9frvGh5aRQvZLi     Book: Politics on the Edge, Rory Stewart (2024)  https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/442034/politics-on-the-edge-by-stewart-rory/9781529922868     TV Show: That Mitchell and Webb Look (2006-2010) - Channel 4  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h242eDB84zY     Video: “I'm QUITTING!" Gary Stevenson vs Piers Morgan On Wealth, Economic Growth & Elon Musk (2026) - YouTube  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLmFZBB3Apw     Article: Gary Stevenson may have been Citi's most profitable trader… in developed market foreign exchange (2026) - Financial Times  https://www.ft.com/content/5c48b680-daf6-40d2-9522-ad997eb07b63     Video: How COVID-19 MAKES the Rich Richer - Gary EXPLAINS the theory (2020)  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiblHqbpXHs     Article: The Sunday Times Rich List (2026)  https://www.thetimes.com/sunday-times-rich-list     Play: Poet In Da Corner, Debris Stevenson (2018)  https://open.spotify.com/album/2QDC46EK9W1ndEyFbFkabH     Play: My Brother's a Genius, Debris Stevenson (2026)  https://www.nyt.org.uk/get-tickets/my-brothers-a-genius-london       Credits:  Producer: Tom Fuller  Researcher: Beth Johnstone  Senior Assistant Producer: Maisie Williams  Audio Mixer: Tom Guest  Video Mixer: Alfie Butler  Production Manager: Francesca Bassett   Music: Miguel D'Oliveira   Series Producer: Millie Chu  Executive Producer: Arron Fellows       A Mindhouse Studios Production for Spotify   www.mindhouse.co.uk     Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

A lot of bird nerds and nature lovers have been keeping an eye on the bird flu arrival in our country. What can we do, what can't we do and what should we do to keep them as healthy and as safe as we can? Here are some things we can consider, published by Predator Free NZ staff: Image credit: John Bruin We are aware that some migratory birds have always been seen as carriers of that flu - it's quite logical that the skua was first found. It probably indicates that many more of these Antarctic birds are full of flu, especially when they get together in places where we, humans, rarely get to. MPI 0800 80 99 66 to report sick birds Image credit: Alex H Weller Using bird feeders? I am not too convinced that is a good idea. Big flocks of all sorts of birds could cause contaminations, maybe not bird flu, but I have seen a lot of silvereyes with Pox on their feet and faces. Yes, I know that Pox is a different issue with birds, but it simply pays to be careful with large numbers of birds hanging around bird feeders. While there is currently no official recommendation to take down bird feeders, they need frequent cleaning to help protect birds. The disease can spread through saliva on nozzle feeders, so clean them daily by scrubbing with hot water and dishwashing liquid (wear gloves and a mask!).  Open dishes and containers accumulate poop and are high risk. Predator Free recommend stopping their use immediately, which makes total sense. If you are trapping pests with eggs and raw poultry as lures… A big bucket of mayonnaise and a small squeezable container. Raw eggs and bird meat could contribute to the spread of disease. While the risk is very low for now and there is no official recommendation to stop using these lures consider phasing them out for now, especially if you use raw egg as a lure in and around your trap. As an egg alternative, we recommend egg-based mayonnaise, which is pasteurised and therefore doesn't pose the same risks as raw eggs. Image Credit: Predator Free Tamahere Keep cats safe and happy at home Cats seem to be very susceptible to severe illness from Avian Influenza H5N1 and could contract it from exposure to wild birds. Keeping cats safe and happy at home minimises the risk of being exposed to the disease, and it's best for our wildlife too. Oh, and while we are at it, keep your dog on a lead too! Makes sense, don't you think? Image credit: Fiona Taylor MPI: 0800 80 99 66 to report sick birds See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Pear and walnut bread Makes one loaf. 1 ½ cups plain flour ½ tsp baking soda ¼ tsp baking powder ½ tsp sea salt 1 heaped tsp ground cinnamon ½ cup chopped walnuts 125g butter, melted (or use oil) 1 large egg, lightly beaten 1 cup sugar 2-3 firm pears, grated to yield 1 cup 1 tsp vanilla extract Preheat oven to 175 C. Grease and line a 12cm loaf pan. Sift together flour, baking soda, baking powder, salt and cinnamon. Add walnuts and toss to coat. Set aside. In a medium bowl, lightly whisk to combine, butter, eggs and sugar. Stir in grated pear, and vanilla and stir to mix everything well. Pour pear mixture into dry ingredients and stir until just combined. Scrape batter into prepared tin and bake for 50-60 minutes or until bread is browned, risen and a skewer inserted comes out clean. Cool in the pan on a wire rack for about 10-15 minutes before turning out to cool on a wire rack, top side up. Serve slices as is or generously buttered. LISTEN ABOVESee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Now it's just over three months till the election. It is a really important election. New Zealand is struggling to get back on its feet economically. A lot of Kiwis are hurting, and they've been hurting for a long, long time. And they have to decide between a party that gives them stuff, “Oh look, we've got free stuff for you," or a party that is promised to fix things, “Hey, we're in charge here," but is still in the process of fixing things and hasn't fixed a great deal yet, “Oh, it takes time.” Or even whether they should give their vote to a shiny new party, “Hi, we're from TOP," utterly unproven, has some interesting takes on taxing the rich, but hey, at least it's not National or Labour, stuff National or Labour. I'll go with that nice girl in that shiny party that may well end up taking your land off you, but hey ho, there we go, at least it's not National or Labour. There is a lot to think about. There's a lot to consider, there's a lot to discuss, there are policies to pick apart, but instead we've spent a week of the 12 weeks we have left until the election fixated on stupid, crass, dumb stuff that politicians and would be politicians say. Should be a new media segment: Dumb Stuff Politicians Say. The media and the public are to blame equally. The media gets clicks on the website and eyes on social media and calls on talkback. Makes it easy, don't even have to work for them. The public can have a knee jerk reaction, “Oh, that's shocking," and an immediate opinion, “What a terrible person," without having to do the hard work of reading through policies and analysis of policies. And as expected, it didn't take Paul Henry long to be at the centre of a row when he was the guest of Radio Hauraki yesterday morning. JEREMY WELLS: Quick game of shoot, shag, marry. Chris Luxon, Chris Hipkins, and Winston Peters. Who are you shooting? Who are you shagging? Who are you marrying? PAUL HENRY: I mean, you know, you've got to shoot Hipkins, haven't you? WELLS: Okay, so Hipkins is no more. MANAIA STEWART: There's your headline. HENRY: Yeah, I'm shagging Winston. WELLS: And you're marrying Luxon. AYESHA VERRALL: That is absolutely inappropriate and these things do have to be called out because we can't just let death threats go in our political conversation. There are nutters out there who feed off these sorts of things and one day, you know, we can be in the situation which the UK is in where members of Parliament lose their lives. Oh, Ayesha Verrall, cool your jets. That was Ayesha on with my colleague Nick Mills in Wellington when she'd learned that Paul Henry had played shoot, shag, marry on Radio Hauraki. Death threats. The righteous indignation from Labour seems a bit OTT given Chris Hipkins participated in a similar game on The Project some years ago, except then as it was called kick, kiss, or marry. In 2023 Chris Hipkins said he would kick David Seymour, kiss Prime Minister Christopher Luxon to get it over and done with quickly, and marry Te Pāti Māori co leader Rawiri Waititi. Kick David Seymour! He's advocating violence! He wants people to hurt the ACT Leader! No, he doesn't. And nor does Paul Henry want to kill Chris Hipkins. They all just participated in a dumb media game and after Albanese got caught up in the shag, marry, date, and Kylie Minogue and all the trouble he got into with that, I'm sure we'll see cross party support from politicians of every hue and every party that they never play that stupid, stupid game in the media ever again. I mean, you heard one of the Hauraki hosts saying, “Oh, there's your headline," and it was. Then you've got the National Party who have got party-wide outrage after Stuart Nash's comments on Katie Nimon and saying, “Oh, she's bloody lazy," inferring she shouldn't have taken so much maternity leave or parental leave. Now, the social media post from every Nat you've never heard of decrying the comments, and deploring them, and the like could be seen as the Nats quite rightly looking after and supporting one of their own, or it could be seen as a party-wide instruction to shriek your outrage across every media outlet because we're polling badly with women and we want to show women that we love them really, it's just that the country can't afford the pay equity legislation that Labour promised the women. We've got Shane Jones and his knee pads comments and for all his purple prose, his grandiloquence, his circumlocution, his sesquipedalian tendencies, he's just as smutty as the next guy, loves a double entendre. But really, the column inches generated and the time wasted by that comment are just grist to his mill. This is what New Zealand First thrives on: agitate and offend people, then leap back decrying them all as “wokesters” and say, “Ugh, New Zealand First is here to man up, hey! You'll be able to knee pad your way around the bloody morning tearoom when New Zealand First is in power! Hey! Don't you worry about that!" I mean, it's just nonsense. Absolute nonsense. There are columns in the newspaper, there are columns online, there are radio programs where you can discuss in detail the policies of the different parties and how they'll impact on New Zealand now and in the future. But people don't read them. We can show you the figures. And that's people. That's the audience. They click on the knee pads, they click on Katie Nimon, they click on Paul Henry and the shoot, shag, marry. They do not click on Treasury's analysis of the Green Party's tax policy – well they do, but not in as nearly the same numbers. So it's on all of us, except not really us because we do talk policy more than your average radio program and you as the audience who make us the number one rating show do read, do absorb, do analyse the policies more than the average member of the public. But honestly, given that this is one of the most important elections we've got coming up, this is what's dominated the headlines for a week. We do get the government we deserve when shoot, shag, marry is the most read column for the week with 12 weeks to go for an election. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

R-CALF USA CEO, Bill Bullard says the increasing reliance on foreign beef imports has made it much more difficult to grow the U.S. herd.

Vince Fakhoury Horn speaks with Mushim Patricia Ikeda about working class dharma—from growing up as "the minority of Greensburg, Ohio" in a third-generation Japanese American family, to training in penniless Korean Zen temples where renovating the building was the practice. Along the way: bliss bunnies, samadhi junkies, mutual aid networks, and why affordability may be the grassroots issue of 2026.

The first huge red Flag in the Cases against the Tates was the Social Media ban in 2022. There were no charges at that time and yet all these different companies from apple to Meta to Twitter to Google all banned Andrew and Tristan on the same day. There was no policy violation stated. They just banned them because they can. But for that all to happen at once that has to be organized from above. The only thing above all those giant companies is a government. This exact same thing happened to me as I was investing ACTUAL human trafficking and rape in the Epstein ring. I got off a flight look at my phone and I was logged out of everything because all my account other than Skype had been banned. Back then Skype was out of Estonia and not yet bought by Microsoft. I had been banned off things before but was normally allowed to appear and have them returned since I never broke any of the rules. That was just normal harassment by Zionist lying about to me get my things shut down. This was different.In the case of Andrew and Tristan both men were banned on all apps on the same day and they had millions of followers. Eventually Elon returned them to X. They never did get their other social media returned. This is an important fact because it shows that a government had it out for them and wanted to shut them up.A false allegation was tried in 2019 but it failed. This was the first rape and trafficking accusations which were in reality just girl friends who had had consensual sex. It was such a poor case that CPS dismissed it. They declined to pursue the case after a 4 year investigation because of insufficient evidence. That did not stop the BBC and other from smearing the Andrew Tate in particular and even getting the Independent Office for Police Conduct IOPC to investigate the CPS. Investigate the investigators because they didn't get the politically desired conclusion.When Hertfordshire Police failed to nail something down they simply had a second go at it with Bedfordshire Police which is where they get the new charges. But lets look at an example of the blatant media manipulation wand why the CPS rejected the accusations by Hertfordshire. This is what the BBC ran the article is still here Sounds terrible but that isn't what it really said. There are intentional omissions here. And that is criminal.If I consent it is not Rape. (no but…)What do you get from me hating it? Mr F*****g Nice Guy yeah. Makes you feel powerful? (no).This is clearly a type of role play. Furthermore the women continued datnig him and having consensual sex. for months after this. And the Police had to recognize this. Before you say well this is one case but what about the others, pause before moving the goal post and acknowledge how important this is. They created a case that was so bad that the CPS said it lacked sufficiant evidence and noted that the victims continuing the date and have sex afterwards discredits their claims. Rape victims to not keep texting much less dating and sleeping with their rapists. They waited so long that many text messages like this could have disappeared by now and wont be available to exonerate the Tate against the new claims by anonymous women. They haven't lived in the UK since 2016.Major news outlets purposely distorted the text messages by only printing what Andrew wrote without any context then accused the police who had the same context of failing at their investigation. They could not have not seen the rest of the messages! This was distorted on purpose to paint Andrew as a criminal. There was another strange incident when Andrew was on the reality show Big Brother a show an employee of mine used to work on. A sex tape was leaked which included belt slapping and play choking. This could have destroyed him right then and there. It led to him being kicked off the show. Fortunately the woman in the tape made 7 videos of her self saying that she is the woman in the tape and that it was consensual and something they were both into.Legally that mattered because it kept him out of serious legal trouble. But it was reputation damning because far more people saw they accusations than the explanation. It also establishes a pattern here that Andrew has a domineering sexual style. Many people do or they are submissive. there is nothing wrong or illegal about that. It is relevant though when a person is writing text messages. Most people do not assume hey I'll be a big celebrity one day and multimillionaire maybe I should be careful what i write to girl friends. That was all from the two thousand teens. One CPS rejected case on hold because in the UK there is no double Jeopardy. There is no right to know your accusers either. There is Epstein client appointees and actual rape gangs being ignored and repeat offenders in the country illegal that end up stabbing people to death and something the cops arrest the stabbing victims. As well as MPs engaged in child pornography and bestiality Florida's Attorney General Jame Uthmeier who opened an investigations into the Tates for the crime of visiting his state, is himself involved in moving ten million dollars from a medicaid settlement into his own PAC. Oh and he will not confirm or deny if he is keeping the conclusion of the grand jury on that matter secret. It would take a long time to explain the utter f******t that was Romania. In the midst of the Calin Georgescu affair, smae honnest prosecutor of the Tates involved in that too, DIICOT fumbled the bag in 2024 while Biden was still president, as they didn't correctly follow procedure. They were given time to correct their mistakes and still they could not do so and thus by early 2025 the Tates were free from judicial control. The case did not go away though.This case was ridiculous. There were women listed as victims who themselves said on film that they are not victims. It ultimately hinged one one women who is extremely not credible. For example in a different lawsuit because she has several against here we get this exchangeNot only are her lies insane she is talking about maintain her lies in order to lie to a court! Father's suicide, brothers overdose, mother trying to take your house, mom finding out we are still seeing each other, mother's boy friend molesting you, 2 fake vivid rape videos, 2 fake pregnancies, 5 fake family members, completely fake sudden discovery of adoption, mother on a meth binge and lying about her age and lying to court. She also posted pictured of herself eating out of a dog bowl with her sides of her pussy lips visible in extremely hiked up Daisy Dukes. A real class act. She claimed the Tates held her against her will when they were not even in the same country 3 of the 5 days she was there. She had her cell phone money and was free to go whenever which is what she did. Her grand “escape” was imply buying tickets online taking an Uber to the airport and leaving. She wasn't even in their house but a home near by that had English/Romanian speakers. She talked with another girl about how she deserved an Oscar and how she planned to cry etc. This is all written down! IF that had ever seen a trial she would have been creamed. But sadly that December trial will now not occur as the brother will be fighting extradition and then these knew UK charges until they are gray haired old men if they live that long. It gets worse too. We know that NGO were involved in orchestrating the whole thing and that the UK pressured Romania to cook something up. Because of the Tate's webcam business they found an angle to attack from. All the Tate haters who didn't like what they said politically online of course were true believers without any evidence needed because it fit their world view. Now we have two men, 38 and 39 facing the rest of their lives in prison still without any convictions, and yet they are in solitary confinement. That goes against the 5th amendment and several state constitutional amendments. But it is two tiered justice. Florida had the most Epstein activity and it was Florida that gave him and his cohorts the Sweetheart deal.More updates pending as the trials move along next one is July 27thRyan Dawson's Anti-neocon Report is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.ryandawson.org/subscribe

Hello and welcome listeners to Episode 29 of Side Quest Podcast. On this episode, your hosts, Jake from Guitar Case Full of Reviews and David from Journey with a Cinephile: A Horror Movie Podcast jump back on the mics to look at an infection/body horror film. The movie selected was Splinter (2008). Jake had seen this years ago and it was his first time watch for David. Makes for an interesting discussion as we look at what works and what is left out for interpretation! Thank you for listening and we hope you enjoy coming on this journey with us!Also make sure you check out Jake over on Guitar Case Full of Reviews along with everything else that he does along with his social media at Dark Mariachi Studios.Social Media:Dark Mariachi Studios: ⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠Email: journeywithacinephile@gmail.comWritten Reviews: https://horrorreview.webnode.com/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dgarrettjrTwitter: https://www.twitter.com/buckeyefrommichLetterboxd: https://letterboxd.com/davidosu/Instagram: davidosu87Threads: davidosu87Journey with a Cinephile Instagram: journeywithacinephileThe Night Club Discord: Journeywith a CinephileJoin Screamify: https://shorturl.at/Z6b9l

“The difference between a good businessman and a bad businessman is the good one fails and learns.”A tradie builds momentum fast. Makes money fast. Spends it faster. Learns the hard way about GST, tax, super, and the cost of looking like you've “made it”. Then the pressure stacks up, burnout hits, and the whole thing starts to wobble.Andrew Hopkins (Hoppo from Hopkins Construction) walks through the real comeback: rebuilding a construction business with better boundaries, a stronger brand, and a work week that actually fits parenting. It also gets practical on social media for tradies (recording vs editing), why AI in construction is useless without clean systems, and how to handle trolls without losing sleep.If you're a builder, carpenter, landscaper, or tradie thinking about starting a construction business, this is the reality check and the roadmap.CHAPTER MARKERS00:00: Intro04:36: Meet Andrew “Hoppo” Hopkins (Hopkins Construction)06:09: Leaving school early and starting a carpentry apprenticeship07:00: Getting suspended from an apprenticeship08:50: Snowboard accident + income protection for tradies11:05: Starting a business naive (tax, super, entitlements)13:11: Tradie overspending (Rangers, trailers, debt)18:10: Partnership breakup + learning from failure22:07: Burnout: when the business runs but you crash23:10: Tradie dads being present is hard27:13: Rebuilding life and work after the split29:10: Boundaries and setting expectations with clients31:39: Social media on site: recording vs editing37:31: AI in construction: fundamentals first41:10: How many hours content creation really takes48:10: Weird brand deals, saying no, and not being a sellout52:15: Trolls, comments, and protecting younger tradies56:28: MEGT Mindful Moment: advice for apprentices starting a businessOur Sponsors:Pro Clima - https://mindful-builder.captivate.fm/proclimaMEGT - https://mindful-builder.captivate.fm/megtConnect with us on Instagram: @themindfulbuilderpodConnect with Hamish:Instagram: @sanctumhomesWebsite: www.yoursanctum.com.au/Connect with Matt: Instagram: @carlandconstructionsWebsite: www.carlandconstructions.com/Mentioned in this episode:Proclima Sponsor

“Your intuition is giving you the truth.” In this episode, Nick shares insights on the importance of rest, self-awareness, and listening to your intuition to improve mental health and productivity. He discusses personal experiences and practical questions to help you recognize when you’re feeling “off” and how to realign. What to listen for: The importance of rest and self-care Recognizing signs of burnout and feeling off Using intuition and body signals to guide actions The role of self-awareness in mental health The process of pausing and realigning during busy times Personal stories of overcoming burnout The significance of small moments of reflection Tools for developing intuition and self-checks Encouragement to take regular rest and listen to oneself “Take a moment to rest and ask yourself what feels off, and then move along from there” Pausing for a moment between thought and action can drastically change our approach When we feel “off” inside, there's a signal being sent up to say “hey! There's something you need to look at in here” “We get to choose: Do I just put some dirt on it and keep going? Or do I pause for a second and ask, “What's up? Why am I feeling this? What am I actually feeling right now?” Understanding we have a choice in every moment, even if the only choice is how we respond Checking in with ourselves periodically brings attention to our feelings and can ultimately lead us to our desires When we know who we are at our core, we then have a gauge for when we're feeling “off” from that core. About Nick McGowan I'm Nick McGowan, an entrepreneur, podcaster, and mental health advocate, and I’ve been on a 20+ year journey of personal development, learning to master my mindset, emotions, and the art of living with purpose. As a Mindset and Self-Mastery Mentor, I work with ambitious men and women who want to live their most authentic and joyous lives by helping them master their mindset, emotional awareness, and authentic communication. My mission is to empower people to lead lives that feel aligned, grounded, and truly their own. Throughout my career, I've built teams, streamlined systems, and improved client experiences across SaaS, media, marketing, and personal development spaces. Whether I'm leading cross-functional projects, optimizing SEO, Podcasting, designing strategies, or guiding clients through transformation, I bring a hands-on, solution-focused approach to everything I do. I'm also the host of The Mindset and Self-Mastery Show, where my guests and I unpack the stories that shape us, challenge us, and ultimately guide us back to who we are at our core. On this show, we uncover the secret gems others have discovered through trial and error and breakthroughs, so you can fast-track your growth and master your mindset in your pursuit of self-mastery. Check out the latest episode here. With years of podcasting and two decades of marketing experience, I've mastered the storytelling, interview flow, strategy, and technical production that elevate a podcast from “just content” to something truly impactful. Whether you’re a leader looking to amplify your message, a seasoned speaker and podcast host looking to sharpen your edge, or even a beginner who is wondering how to share their message, I mentor thought leaders through every step of having the conversation they’re here to have on this planet. So, what message are you here to share?! https://nickmcgowan.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/thenickmcgowan/ Resources: Check out other episodes about adjusting our mindset for rest and transition Internal Reflection And Self-Care With Dr. Nekeshia Hammond How To Transform Your Mindset And Boost Performance With Steve Magness Interested in starting your own podcast or need help with one you already have?Learn how Nick can help! Learn more about our host, Nick McGowan: https://nickmcgowan.com/ Thank you for listening! Please subscribe to the show on iTunes and give us a 5-Star review! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-mindset-and-self-mastery-show/id1604262089 Listen to other episodes here: https://themindsetandselfmasteryshow.com/ Watch Clips and highlights: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCk1tCM7KTe3hrq_-UAa6GHA Guest Inquiries right here: podcasts@themindsetandselfmasteryshow.com Your Friends at “The Mindset & Self-Mastery Show” Click Here To View The Episode Transcript Nick McGowan (00:04.814)Hello, and welcome to the Mindset and Self-Mastery Show. I’m your host, Nick McGowan. Today on the show, I want to talk about us just taking the time to give ourselves rest. I think there are times where we as people will just drive ourselves crazy. we drive ourselves mad, just doing all these things, all the things that we feel other people are telling us to do or the world tells us to do. Sometimes we just need to rest. And I wanted to take this time to share a message of suggesting that you rest, partially because it’s coming from a personal experience. I have been working a lot over the past few months, working a lot of a lot of projects for clients. I have my own strategy for the podcast and I’ve updated that. I six months of content I put out and all aligned so that we’re on the same page. I’m not just blasting out random messages and stuff like that. But doing all that work because of a really challenging end to a chapter that happened recently got me to a point about a week ago where I could feel there’s a little bit of burnout starting to set in. The reason why I’m doing this episode now is today is one of those days where I’ve canceled a few meetings and instead chosen to make a podcast episode. I have a client call later today, some project work to do, and then a bunch of music to play. And that is my choice, but it’s also my choice to make sure that I’m choosing those things for my health. I think there are times where we will do things consistently and we get into a pattern almost like how you can probably drive to the grocery store without even really thinking about it. We just we just do it subconsciously. We’re just travel there and we’re good. Sometimes we’ll be thinking about something else or you know, maybe you’re texting or looking at your phone or whatever, and you just magically end up at the store. Sometimes that happens in life more so than we think about it. Going to your office, picking up your kids, going out to meet with friends, whatever the things are, even if they’re novelty or something you don’t do all the time, you can still get in the habit and just be used to doing those things without actually asking yourself, why are you doing those things? Sometimes it’s also really tough to ask yourself, why am I still here? Or why am I doing this? Or Nick McGowan (02:34.358)Why with whatever it is? Could be a job, could be a relationship, could be something you’re experiencing inside, something that you’re trying to work on or work through. Either way, as those situations happen, we have an opportunity and a responsibility in some ways to be able to look at that and say, well, do I want this? Do I not want this? Is there something underneath that’s telling me, hey, something’s slightly off? And it can be really easy to not listen to that. You’ve probably gone through things where you look and it’s let’s say the holiday season. Next thing you know, it’s summer. Here we are. I’m recording this in June. So by the time you listen to it, it’ll probably be July, middle of the summer. You might be on vacation, you might be doing different things. There’s a lot of pushing and pulling, of taking people different places or vacations. People come into town, or you go visit different people or Just a weekend at the beach or the mountains or whatever that thing is. But those things aren’t always as restful as we need them to be. Sometimes the moment that we really need is a bit of a longer moment to just be restful. So let’s just hang out for a second. Just rest. Are you in your car? Are you at the office? Are you at home? You have a lot of people around you. Are you like in a coffee shop with everybody doing their thing around you? No matter where you’re at, I challenge you to take this moment just to be. Now, if you’re driving, don’t close your eyes. just be, just be present, just be here. And is there some feeling that comes up? Something that says, maybe this feels good, I don’t experience this enough, or something that says, you know, this feels really bad because I don’t feel like I can or should experience this. Those are telltale signs to tell us that there’s something that’s going on underneath. If we get past or through, or even around that, we think about there are times where we feel somewhat off. Nick McGowan (04:51.146)Let’s unpack that a bit. In those moments where you feel off, at least for me, when I feel off, there are different flavors to what’s off. The burnout that I feel at times is most often because I’m doing things that, yes, I may really enjoy those, because I really do my best to not do the things I don’t enjoy anymore. Obviously, there are responsibilities and things that we kind of have to do. Like, I don’t really want to pay for my car. But I want to keep my car so I will continue to pay the car note, you know, like that sort of thing. but then there are other things that we do that if we just adjust those slightly or take a pause, just a beat for a second, step back and say, what am I feeling? What’s feeling off right now? I’ve learned with myself that I can ask those questions and go maybe within like a 24, 48 hour range. What happened yesterday? Or is there something coming up in a few days? That I’m maybe concerned about or worried about or even just processing through. Like I have a I have a meeting coming up in a few days. It’s an event where I’m speaking and talking with lot of people and I’m excited. There’s also a little bit in there of like, what should I prep, or what else do I need to get ready for, or what have you. So we all have those little things that just they’re processing in the background. That’s different than not having the energy or the drive or the motivation even. To start or continue on with the thing. It’s in those moments where we get to choose: do I just put some dirt on it and just keep going? Or do I pause for a second and say, what is up? Why am I feeling this? What am I actually feeling? I had an experience the other day where I was at kind of a crux point in a sense, like a fork on the road, where I could keep on a path. I was working on a client project and I was at a spot where I don’t know, maybe another five, 10 minutes, and I could have been like, cool, I can put a bow on that. I can just move along and I can go do something else. But I felt for like a solid 15, 20 minutes leading up to this moment, just not right. Like I just didn’t want to do it anymore. There are different times where we as people can just like not want to do a thing. I don’t want to be here anymore. And you can just Irish exit or walk out or run or whatever. then there are other times where we think, well, I don’t want to be here because of something or some situation or this is Nick McGowan (07:19.042)Hard or tough or what have you. I go through those, like I’ll ask those questions. So I’ll take a little bit of a step back, especially in that moment. I sat back in my chair and was like, what am I feeling? Is it just that I don’t want to do this right now? That I just want to do something else? Like it is is it as simple as I just want to go walk outside for a minute? Like just not be in this energy? And asking those initial questions will help us understand if there’s something that’s really close to it. That we can say, it’s this thing. Duh, let me just take care of that. And then we’re good and you’re good to go. I’ve experienced that where it’s like, well, I felt like this nagging thing was in the background. Like I need to go switch over the laundry or something like that. Be well, instead of just pushing that off, let me go do that. Let me just take the five minutes to do it, come back and be good to go. Then you’re done. You’re no longer thinking about that. That’s no longer processing back there. But that’s vastly different than there’s something underneath it all. That is like, I don’t think this is the right time for you to do this. So that moment that I had, I went through, I went through my questions and was like, what is it? What am I feeling? What do I want? It wasn’t that I didn’t want to do the project. I could have just kept going with the project. It was literally one of those situations where I was like, you know, I could keep going on this thing and I could probably spend another three, four hours doing this. And it would have been okay. But not exactly what I needed to do. And I knew that. Nick McGowan (09:08.76)So when I asked myself, do I really want to stop this or do I just want to keep going? Like I knew I was at a time where I could keep going. Again, I could do it for another three, four hours, be totally good. And then maybe at the end of that, go, my God, I don’t even want to look at my computer. Let me go do something else, like out of the house or wherever, you know. but I felt in that moment, like this is one of those really good moments where I go, Well, I could keep down this path and I’d probably be okay. And not totally burn out or feel like I wasted the day or anything like that. Or I could sit here a little longer, another minute or two, and figure out what’s really underneath of it. So I ended up putting that project to the side, actually stopped at that moment, which I don’t think that I have OCD, but there are times where, and you’ve maybe experienced this, like if you just spent another five, 10 minutes on a thing, you would have gotten to a point where you go, cool, bow tied. I’m able to put that to the side. Then when I come back, I can kind of start freshly with it. I just stopped. I was like, this is where I’m at. I’m done. When I opened the project the next time, it did take me an extra few minutes to go, all right, cool. I see what I did. Cool. Perfect. And I was able to move from there. So it’s not like it messed anything up, but in that moment, I didn’t really care. It could have put me back another half hour, or it could have potentially put me ahead by doing something different. So stopping that thing, I felt the power that I have the ability to be able to say, no, and that doesn’t feel right for me to do right now. I also understand that this isn’t always the case for everybody. You can’t be in the middle of a meeting and say, I don’t want to be here right now and expect that it should just be okay. You can’t be in the middle of a conversation with your kid or your partner and just go, I don’t want to be here and expect that it’s going to be okay. That’s just not how those things work. But in these different little experiences, and especially when we’re by ourselves, I think that’s where we get to work on this stuff. So if you’re in your office or you’re at home or you’re wherever you’re at, and you feel that moment of this doesn’t feel right for me to do. And you start to ask yourself, is it because I just don’t want to do the thing anymore? Or is it because I feel like I really want to go do something else? Like I’ve experienced that at times where I’m like, there’s some basketball game or something on. Like, I don’t want to do this thing. I want to go watch the game. Nick McGowan (11:35.37)And sometimes I will, sometimes I’ll do both, and you know, whatever. Like, but we get to figure that stuff out in those moments. So if you ask yourself in those moments, like, what’s going on? What am I feeling? Do I really want to do this? Do I not want to do it? Is it is there something underneath of it all? And really what I’m trying to get to is that underneath layer. Like, find what’s underneath, like what’s what’s boiling the magma underneath there? It’s starting to make the ground shake in a sense. Because then in that moment you’re able to understand if I put my energy into that. That’s potentially going to help the rest of the energy that I have. And also probably that other project. So when I stopped working on that project the other day, I knew I could keep going. And there was a part of me that was like, man, you got it. Like you can just keep going. Just knock this thing out. Close this chapter of this project so you can move along to the next thing, which does make me feel really good. I love being able to kind of close things out and go, Great, I’m gonna hand it off to the client, or I’m gonna hand this off to this person. You take it. Great, and I’m good, and I can move along to the next thing. I also know about myself that I’m a project person. I really love my projects. I’m multi-passionate, but I love digging into the things that I do. You may be similar. So if you enjoy that, it can be hard at times to stop on a project. But again, back to that moment. I stopped that project a little earlier than I wanted to and moved along through a series of a few different events that led me to a breakthrough. And the reason why I put it that way. Is because it took me walking outside, getting in my car. I went to the post office because I had to drop some stuff off and came back, cleaned up the kitchen a little bit and went to the bathroom. It just like did odds and ends little things here and there, but also things that felt like I was led to do. Just like as simple as the bathroom. Like we know when our bladder’s like, yo, dude, you gotta go. So you just kind of walk your way on back. Same deal. could feel it intuitively of like, I’m gonna go step outside. I’m just gonna run to the post office. I’m gonna clean up the kitchen. I’m gonna go to the bathroom, I’m gonna do this, gonna do that. Within about, I don’t know, maybe 15, 20 minutes, 30 minutes, something like that. Post office is only a few minutes away, so it’s not that big a deal. But within a short period of time, I was back at my computer and had my guitar in my hand. And I just felt more at ease. Nick McGowan (13:59.862)It’s not like there was better or some major difference, but I could feel a little lighter and a little more at ease. I’ve realized that that tells us that we’re doing something more right for ourselves. Not like we were doing things wrong before, but this is one of those things that feels more right to do. Great. It can also go against the system of the world that says you’re not doing enough, you’re not producing enough, you’re not. Creating, you’re not blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I felt some of that where I was like, I’m not doing the project work stuff. That’s money and that’s clients. And I appreciate my clients. I appreciate the money. I love working with the people I do and like I’m on I’m on board with them and their projects and like I’m in it with them. And also can still pause that, take a step away, do some other things and work on our own projects. The main reason why I’m talking about this and that it stood out to me. was I’ve been writing an album for several years. You’ve probably heard me talk about how I reformatted a hard drive about a year ago and lost everything. so I’ve started over again. And even in the past two months, maybe month and a half, two months, I’ve taken the songs that are going to go on my album and I’ve said, great, I’m here where they’re at with their demo, and just put them to the side and start it over. I literally picked up my acoustic and just started to build the song again from a single player, a singer, songwriter, and just build it and then turn it to a band and all that stuff, et cetera. So I’ve been working through this and literally reworking these things. So that’s where I ended up getting to was one of these songs. I have been bashing my head in a way to try to figure out the chorus of one of the songs. And it’s just not feeling right. Just not. If you’re creative and you have different projects you work on, you know there are things, even if it’s with your hands, like playing an instrument or woodworking and stuff like that, where you’re just not fully there yet. It’s not fully done. Like a a piece maybe isn’t fully sanded down or fully completed. We know when it is. We can feel it inside of us. And in that, I don’t know, maybe thirty, forty-five minutes or so that I was just messing around, just getting my energy right, I figured out the chorus. Nick McGowan (16:24.566)And it literally came from a frustration point of saying, I don’t like this. I really don’t know where to go with it. But I know that there’s something here. I know that I know the messages within it. I just need to hear it. I need to feel it and then let it come out of me. So I literally hit record and just let it come out of me. And it did. I don’t think this is going to be like one of those classic songs that people will cover and sing for. eons, maybe, who cares? I don’t know. I don’t really care. But I know that that moment happened because of the other moments that happened. I took the moment to say something feels off. Huh. What do I do? Well, what can I do to feel on? You know? How can I make this change? And asking those questions and intentionally looking for the feeling that I would have inside for the intuition to go, go this way. Go that way. Try this thing, do that. I’ve learned with my intuition, and I believe this is probably true with everybody’s intuition, that it’s giving us the truth and it’s suggesting things that feel deeply connected to our bodies. That could be get the hell out of this place, or that could be go run toward that person and talk to them, or whatever it is. And it’s not a mental thing. It’s an intuitive, it’s a body, it’s an energy thing that we feel, this is it. This is where I’m going. This is where I feel led to. There was probably, I don’t know, a series of 10, 20 different ones of those, like little check-ins and stuff, just in that short, let’s say hour amount of time. The time from having the feeling and then starting to do things outside of that, and music and working on it and all, et cetera. That to me is life. Like those moments where we get to actually think about that and break that down, especially right now, as you’re listening to this and as we’re talking about this and breaking this stuff down, this is a safe kind of lab space to be able to work on this stuff. It’s because when we do that work now, when we get into those situations, we then get to go, you know, I’ve been here before. Even if it was mental reps or Nick McGowan (18:40.364)I’ve been somewhere close to it or I feel a little bit more confident in being able to go into this, even if I don’t know exactly what the hell’s going on or how it’s going to work out or whatever. We’re more equipped in that moment. I think about it as like game tape with athletes. They’ll watch what they did and then they’ll watch how terrible they played or whatever it was and look at the nuances and changes. Not so they can go, man, all right, well, I want to go back to yesterday and redo the game. No, you can’t do that. At least science hasn’t shown us how to do that yet. So they’ll take that and go, all right, cool. So next time when I’m in that exact spot, what I should do is actually go right instead of left and then pivot on one foot or whatever. They’ll lock that into their brain. Same for us. Like with that moment, I was like, something feels a little off. And I’ve learned from my years of doing this that I go, huh? Let me pause. What is it? And I don’t turn it into some big weird thing. Like, I mean, this is this is a teaching, an educational kind of experience in a sense. Where you’re listening and taking this in to go, all right, cool, I hear you, dude. And yeah, next time I’m in this sort of situation, I can do this thing. But it’s not like I’m in those situations. I’m like, my God, this is the biggest thing ever. I’m so excited. No, most times it literally just happens and I’m like, fuck, what the fuck do I feel all for? And I’ll start to work through this. And I’ve realized that these frameworks that work for me, work for other people, but that they they all work in the way that they work. Like I’m not a huge fan when somebody says, here’s a thing that I figured out. I don’t give a shit what your context is, just like go do it, and you will have the exact same experience. It doesn’t make any sense, like at all, because everybody’s context, everybody’s life, everybody’s experiences are so different. Even the same people who grew up the same way, the same house, experience different things. So those moments in that little framework, it’s just a series of questions of check-ins. Which you can do with nobody knowing. So you can be in your office thinking, do I really want to be here anymore? What’s going on? Why really want to slap that person in the face? Cause the thing they just said was the dumbest thing I’ve heard all day. well, I’m typically not a violent person, so why do I want to slap them? You know, like thinking through that sort of stuff. but really taking a moment just internally to check in and say, What am I feeling? What’s happening right now? Because if you know at your Nick McGowan (21:05.72)Core that you are naturally one way, or your tendency is toward one way, and you’re off from that, then that’s a simple deduction. Like those two things aren’t aligned, you’re off. I know at my core, I’m naturally curious and really inquisitive. Like I ask a lot of questions, I’m super curious, and I see patterns and things, and I’m joyous and I get all excited. I also know there are times where maybe I only slept four hours that night before. So I’m not naturally that way, but I can realize the difference between my body just feels drained, or I at a soul level feel drained. But it’s not often clear right up front. So my challenge to you is in those moments, next time one of those moments comes up where you feel slightly off, just pause and sit in yourself and ask what feels off. Again, if you’re in like a meeting or in front of people or something, you’ll need to just do that quickly internally. And I say quickly in the sense that I don’t want you to get through it just to get through it. I want you to figure out as quickly as you can, intuitively, like what feels off. And just ask, all right, intuition, what feels off right now? And if you don’t hear anything right up front, okay. I think sometimes we can kind of calcify our intuition. And make it hard to hear the certain things. And the more work that we do and the more hearing we can hear from it, the louder things get, the more we can feel that. I’ve seen that within my experience and that might be similar to yours. I’ve heard that is similar with other people as well. It’s like a muscle. The more you work it, the more you work and the more you can hear it. So doing this and asking these questions will also help with that, but also then help you understand there might be something that comes up that goes, man, you’re really upset about what happened this morning with you and your partner. But here I am, six hours later in the middle of a meeting, talking about some production thing or some product or whatever the thing is. Understanding where you’re at and what feels off then gives us an opportunity and again a responsibility to either do something with it in that moment or to pause with it, kind of put a pin and then come back to it and do some work with it. If you’re able to do something in the moment, like I was in my situation, where I went, pause, I’m gonna go. Nick McGowan (23:27.042)Do something else because I can feel slightly off, then do that. If you can’t in that moment, then just get back to it a little later and get back to that feeling of what were you feeling in that moment. That’s why I like to be able to do this stuff as quickly as possible, because you’re right there and you’re feeling it. You don’t have to think back to it or try to get your body to remember what it felt like. You can then just go right there, like it just happened. I feel it right now. But taking the rest that you need. And the moment to be able to understand what’s going on is vastly important. And oftentimes we can get so swept up in how life is and everything that’s going on that you wake up in the morning and the next thing you know, it’s 10, 11 o’clock at night, and the whole day has just flown by. I think about how sometimes we as people, and especially millennials, we seem to just be drawn toward toward our phones to just have that dopamine after a little while. And I do that too. There are times where I’ll end up on Instagram or LinkedIn or Facebook or something for something silly. Like I pulled up, I I’m a group expert in a Facebook group for podcasters. I think there’s like 120,000 people in the group. It’s a pretty large group. So I’ll hop on every once in a while, look at somebody’s question or apply something back. And then next thing you know, it’s like 20 minutes later I’m just thumbing through looking at dumb shit. It’s like, but we as people will subconsciously pull ourselves back to that because it’s familiar. It’s also a little dopamine hits, et cetera. And it’s in that moment of understanding that I’m aware of this right now, where we can go, I just want to put this down and go do something else. And those little moments where we get to do something else and the responsibility and the action that we take at that point actually helps us become better in those tougher moments. Now that moment that I had of saying, I’m at a project point where I can stop or keep going, but I feel like there’s something else for me to do, isn’t the same pivot point of a building’s about to fall down or the world’s going to collapse. I I don’t know. I’m just making stuff up, but like these aren’t these aren’t life and death experiences. But there are times where that stuff can happen. And it’s this stuff now and these moments now when we can work on this to then be potentially in a better spot. Nick McGowan (25:46.67)It’s like you don’t know what’s going to happen in those times, but you can at least do the work leading up to it so that you know, look, I can probably handle this a little better than I would have been able to hadn’t I not done any of this work. So my challenge to you is take some rest. Take it this weekend. Take it over the course of the next week, two weeks during that rest, and whatever amount of rest that you get. Just sitting there by yourself. And I’m not talking about sitting on your phone or even reading or something like that. I’m saying just being, being with ourselves, because then we can listen to ourselves. And it can be really hard to do that at times, especially if you’re not used to it. No, for me, I get into just a rhythm with life where I’m just moving and grooving. There are times when I really understand I need to slow down and just listen. And it can be really loud, white noise to just sit there and listen. So my challenge is for you to do some of that in whatever capacity you can. And whatever time that you have, if it’s 30 seconds, if it’s a minute, if it’s two hours, who cares? Just spend the time over, let’s say, the next week or even a few days to be able to check in with yourself and understand what am I feeling right now? What’s happening? What feels off? Or on the opposite side of that, what feels totally on. Because then we can say, these things aligned with me and make me feel really excited and really on. How I do more of those things? Hell, that’s kind of how I got into the podcasting stuff. I’ve had my podcast for almost five years at this point, but started working with clients, podcasters, and thought leaders, maybe about a year into the podcast. And over the years, it’s just grown and grown. And I get more and more excited about working with people who are brand new or people who’ve been doing it for a little bit and trying to figure out strategy and just how all this stuff works. Because of all the stuff that I’ve done in the past. Nick McGowan (27:48.166)different moments I can look back to and go, I really didn’t like this one job, but I loved this part of it. And I loved meeting with these people who helped me understand this, et cetera. I guess an easy example, I’m very process driven because if I wasn’t, I would be all over the place. And I understand that about me. And I’ve also had it kind of beaten into me with different agencies I worked with and worked for, where we have to have a process in place. And that process allows us to kind of play jazz in the middle of it. Makes total sense. Great. So now I incorporate that in basically everything I do. I use a project management tool for all of life and don’t always use it, but I still have it and I work on it and I do these things to be able to help myself be in a better spot where I can say, this is more of what I want. And that’s really what it’s about, being more aligned with who we are at our core and doing things more so of what we want because of that alignment. Not like I just don’t want to be at my job, so I’m just gonna leave. Or I want to go spend forty thousand dollars on some crazy dragon PRS or something. Like, cool. I mean, you can do whatever you want, but in all reality, why are you doing those? Like, what is what’s the alignment with that? And what is the purpose to it? So again, thinking about the situation I went through, I could have kept working on the client project. I really enjoy my clients. I enjoy the project work. I’m a nerd with this stuff, so I could keep at it. Or something feels off. I can go do something slightly different and then use that energy in a different way. I I hope I am able to do that a lot more throughout life. And I suspect I will be able to, because I’ve seen that I’ve been able to. Over the past few years, more and more and more and more of that happens, which is why I have more of these episodes to be able to talk about these things, because I want you to be able to understand. Not only are you capable of doing this, but probably better of doing it than I am. And in your own way. This isn’t a competition. In fact, any of the stuff that I go through, I’ve learned that it’s really part of my responsibility to share. And the way that I look at it and how I’ve experienced these things, to share with other people, to then take that in their own lives. You might listen to this and go, cool, Nick, heard, but fuck, that sounds stupid. Okay. Nick McGowan (30:14.316)You might listen to this and go, Nick, that is wonderful. I felt the same thing. I appreciate the framework. I’m going to do more of this. Great. My job is just to share. Your job is to interpret the information, figure out what you want to do with it, and use some of it or not, and move along from there. My encouragement to you is to be able to take those moments of rest and really to be self-aware enough to see that you need that rest or that something is slightly off. The more that we can do that in the smaller moments, the more it’ll add up in the long term. So if you need help figuring out how to go about this way, figuring out how to become more self-aware, or just really struggling with your mental health or overall mindsets and trying to figure out what self-mastery means for you, then reach out to me. Offer free clarity sessions to be able to figure out where you’re currently at, where you want to go, and how we can get there together. And I would love to work with you and at least hear where you’re at with things. And if I can give you some free resources or guidance or wisdom, I’d be happy to do so. And also if it makes sense for us to work together on a mentoring perspective, I’d love to explore that with you. But please try this. Try, try, try this. Just take that moment. When you feel off, just take a moment to rest and ask yourself what feels off, and then move along from there. Even if you don’t want help mentoring or don’t want to talk, totally fine. But I would love to hear from you how it has been working for you. Because I think these little pivotal moments for us start to shape things way down the road that we don’t know that we’re starting to work on, but we can do this work right now. So I appreciate you listening. I appreciate you being here. And I appreciate that you take this stuff and you do some work with it. Again, I’d love to hear how it’s working for you. And if you need some support and need some help. Please reach out. And again, thank you for listening today.

With Constantine Hatzivassiliou—Partner, Certuity Golf taught Constantine Hatzivassiliou how to perform under pressure. Building a nearly $5B multi-family office taught him that the best advisors become the first call when life, not just the markets, gets complicated. In Summary Many advisors spend years mastering investments, but for affluent families, portfolio management is often just the starting point. Jason Diamond welcomes Constantine Hatzivassiliou, Partner at Certuity, to discuss how his journey from aspiring professional golfer to leader of a nearly $5B multi-family office shaped his approach to client service. Their conversation explores why trust is earned long before a crisis, how family office services evolve naturally from client needs, and why the advisor's role increasingly resembles that of a quarterback coordinating every aspect of a family's financial life. The discussion also examines organic growth, referrals, fiduciary advice, private equity's impact on the RIA landscape, and the qualities that allow advisors to become indispensable over decades—not just market cycles. The Storyline Many advisors spend years perfecting investment management. But as clients become more successful, the job changes. The questions become bigger than portfolio construction. A business is being sold. A family dynamic shifts. A tax issue emerges. An estate plan needs updating. Suddenly, the advisor isn't simply managing assets—they're coordinating decisions, relationships, and emotions. For Constantine, that broader role was shaped long before he entered wealth management. As an aspiring professional golfer, he learned lessons about discipline, preparation, and performing under pressure that continue to influence how he serves clients today. Jason and Constantine explore how Certuity grew from approximately $210 million in assets to nearly $5B, not through acquisitions but through referrals and a service model built on becoming indispensable to the families they advise. Constantine explains why he believes the best advisors function more like quarterbacks than portfolio managers, orchestrating the many moving pieces that come with significant wealth. The conversation also examines the evolution of the multi-family office model, the role of fiduciary advice, the impact of private equity on the advisory landscape, and why experience, judgment, and trust remain the qualities clients value most. Ultimately, this episode is about what it takes to become the first call when life – not just the markets – becomes complicated. Topics Covered Lessons from professional golf that translate to wealth management Building Certuity from $210mm to nearly $5B in assets What distinguishes a multi-family office from a traditional RIA Why referrals fuel long-term organic growth Becoming the “first call” for affluent families Fiduciary advice and the evolution of the advisory profession Family office services beyond investment management Private equity and M&A in the RIA space Developing the next generation of advisors Trust, relationships, and lifetime client service > Download a transcript of this episode… Listen and Learn Highlights for Advisors How did professional golf prepare Constantine for advising wealthy families? (3:45) Constantine explains why competing under pressure taught him discipline, emotional control, and process—qualities that now guide every client relationship. How did Certuity grow from $210 million to nearly $5 billion? (8:00) He shares why nearly all of the firm's growth has come organically through client referrals rather than acquisitions or aggressive recruiting. What separates a multi-family office from a traditional advisory firm? (11:45) The conversation explores how expanding into trust, estate, tax, and family office services became a response to client needs—not a business strategy. Why should advisors think of themselves as quarterbacks? (20:00) Constantine recounts a client business sale that fell apart at the closing table and explains why advisors often become the person holding everything together. How does Certuity view private equity and acquisitions? (36:20) Jason and Constantine discuss when outside capital can make sense—and why Certuity has chosen a different path centered on client alignment. Why do wisdom and experience still matter in an AI-driven world? (29:30) Despite advances in technology, Constantine argues that judgment, trust, and perspective remain the qualities affluent families value most. Key Takeaways High-net-worth clients increasingly value coordination, judgment, and perspective over investment selection alone. Family office services often evolve naturally as advisors respond to increasingly complex client needs. Sustainable organic growth is rooted in trust, which explains why referrals account for the overwhelming majority of Certuity's new business. Golf and wealth management share the same disciplines: preparation, emotional control, patience, and executing under pressure. The most valuable advisors become trusted partners during life's defining moments—not simply portfolio managers. Technology continues to reshape wealth management, but experience and wisdom remain difficult to replicate. Building a lasting advisory business requires investing in culture, succession, and the next generation of talent. https://youtu.be/m72Hq6bMTo4 Quotable Moments “The best advisors aren't simply managing portfolios. They're the first person clients call when life gets complicated.” “A bad shot in golf is the equivalent of a bad day in the market. You can't let one dictate everything that comes next.” “More often than not, we're not just financial advisors—we're financial therapists.” “Growth gets the headlines. Trust is what makes it possible.” FAQs What is a multi-family office? A multi-family office delivers integrated services beyond investment management, often coordinating tax, estate planning, philanthropy, business planning, and other complex financial matters for affluent families. Why has Certuity grown primarily through referrals? Constantine attributes the firm's growth to deep client relationships, a collaborative service model, and becoming the trusted advisor clients recommend to others. How does golf relate to wealth management? Golf reinforces discipline, emotional control, preparation, and performing under pressure—all qualities Constantine believes are essential for effective advisors. What is Constantine's perspective on private equity in wealth management? While he understands why many firms pursue private equity, he believes every strategic decision should ultimately be measured against what best serves clients. What qualities distinguish exceptional advisors today? According to Constantine, exceptional advisors become trusted coordinators of a client's financial life—bringing together specialists, solving problems, and providing perspective during life's most important moments. A multi-family office delivers integrated services beyond investment management, often coordinating tax, estate planning, philanthropy, business planning, and other complex financial matters for affluent families. Constantine attributes the firm's growth to deep client relationships, a collaborative service model, and becoming the trusted advisor clients recommend to others. Golf reinforces discipline, emotional control, preparation, and performing under pressure—all qualities Constantine believes are essential for effective advisors. While he understands why many firms pursue private equity, he believes every strategic decision should ultimately be measured against what best serves clients. According to Constantine, exceptional advisors become trusted coordinators of a client's financial life—bringing together specialists, solving problems, and providing perspective during life's most important moments. Related Resources Emotional Intelligence: The “Untouchable” Differentiator in an AI World Intentional Growth: How Top Advisors Build Businesses That Last The 10 Characteristics of the Most Successful Teams Constantine HatzivassiliouPartner  Constantine Hatzivassiliou is a Partner at Certuity, a nationally recognized multi-family office serving affluent families, entrepreneurs, executives, foundations, and endowments. He advises clients on the complex financial, tax, estate, and business planning decisions that accompany significant wealth, helping families coordinate all aspects of their financial lives through a comprehensive family office approach. Drawing on more than two decades of experience, Constantine works closely with successful business owners, corporate executives, and multi-generational families to simplify financial complexity and align investment management, tax planning, estate planning, philanthropy, and family governance strategies. As a Certified Exit Planning Advisor (CEPA®), he frequently assists entrepreneurs in preparing for liquidity events, business transitions, and the long-term stewardship of family wealth. His clients often view him as a trusted advisor and strategic sounding board, helping them navigate important financial decisions with the perspective of both a family office professional and a coach. Prior to joining Certuity, Constantine held advisory and banking positions with The Bank of New York Mellon, Bernstein Global Wealth Management, and Pacific Mercantile Bank. Before entering the financial services industry, he was a Golf Professional and member of the PGA of America, experiences that continue to shape his disciplined, competitive, and relationship-focused approach to advising clients. Outside of his professional responsibilities, Constantine is passionate about mentoring young athletes and strengthening the communities in which he lives and works. He serves as a Board Member of Coerfontaine Football Club (CFC), a premier youth soccer organization focused on developing young athletes and helping them pursue collegiate and professional opportunities while fostering leadership, discipline, and character. He also serves as Chair of the Safety and Security Committee for Parkland, where he works alongside community leadership to enhance resident safety, security, and quality of life. In addition, Constantine is a Founding Board Member of The Boardroom, a private membership organization focused on fostering meaningful relationships among business leaders, entrepreneurs, and professionals through networking, education, and philanthropy. Born in Greece, Constantine spent his childhood in Montreal before relocating to South Florida. He attended the University of Florida before earning a Bachelor of Arts in Economics from Florida Atlantic University, where he graduated with honors. He holds the Certified Exit Planning Advisor (CEPA®) designation. A lifelong student of the game, Constantine remains active in golf and is a member of Muirfield Village Golf Club, founded by his longtime  hero and mentor, Jack Nicklaus, as well as Parkland Golf & Country Club. Constantine resides in Parkland, Florida, with his wife, Stephanie, and their two children, Nicholas and Olivia. NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation. Episode Transcript Lessons from the Links: From Golf Pro to $5B Family Office Partner A conversation with Jason Diamond and Constantine Hatzivassiliou, Partner at Certuity. Jason Diamond: Welcome to the latest episode of our podcast series for financial advisors. Today’s episode is Lessons from the Links: From Golf Pro to $5B Family Office Partner. It’s a conversation with Constantine Hatzivassiliou, partner at Certuity. I’m Jason Diamond and this is the Diamond Podcast for Financial Advisors. Mindy Diamond: At Diamond Consultants, we help elite advisors identify the right environment for their businesses to thrive whether that’s at a wirehouse, boutique or independent firm. With nearly three decades of experience, we’ve guided thousands of advisors and represented more than a quarter of a trillion dollars in assets transitioned and, each year, one in four advisors managing $1 billion or more who change firms are our clients. Our process is education-driven and based on building relationships starting as your strategic partner well before you’re even thinking of a move. To schedule a confidential conversation, call us at (908) 879-1002. Wondering why advisors change firms and where they’re headed? Are transition deals going up or down? Those very questions and more inspired us to create our annual advisor transition report, it’s the award-winning data-driven resource designed for advisors that connects the dots between the motivations around movement and the firm’s appetite for top talent. Arm yourself with the knowledge you need to make smart decisions, download your copy at diamond-consultants.com/transitionreport. Jason Diamond: Golf is a way of exposing who you really are, there are no teammates to blame, no clock to run out and no hiding from a bad decision. Every shot demands discipline, patience and the ability to stay focused when the pressure is highest, my guest today knows that firsthand. Before becoming a partner at Certuity, a multifamily office approaching five billion in assets, Constantine Hatzivassiliou was pursuing a career as a professional golfer. An injury ultimately redirected his path towards wealth management but many of the lessons he learned on the course still shaped the way he serves clients today. Certuity has grown from roughly 210 million in assets to nearly five billion, that’s impressive on its own but the more interesting story is how they’ve done it. The firm has grown largely through referrals built around a multifamily office model and focused on becoming far more than an investment advisor to the families it serves. In Constantine’s view, the best advisors aren’t simply managing portfolios, they’re the first person clients call when a business is being sold, a family issue becomes complicated or a major decision carries consequences well beyond the balance sheet. Constantine and I discuss the lessons golf teaches about handling pressure then we dive into the evolution from the traditional wealth management world to the multifamily office model, why referrals drive nearly all of Certuity’s growth, how he thinks about private equity’s influence on the advisory business and what it takes to become the first call for the wealthy families they serve and perhaps, most importantly, why the same qualities that help someone succeed on a golf course may be surprisingly relevant to building trust over a lifetime. It’s a great conversation so let’s dive in. Constantine, thank you so much for joining, thrilled to have you here. Constantine Hatzivassiliou: Thank you for having me, excited to be here. Jason Diamond: Yeah, absolutely. So, you had an unconventional path to wealth management, you started as a professional golfer, I think that’s a first for us on this show, before ultimately transitioning into this world. Can you tell us a little bit about the journey and what brought you here? Constantine Hatzivassiliou: Yeah, I never thought I’d be here, my parents were certainly shocked that I got here path wise. Growing up, immigrants from Greece, you settle into Florida the traditional way where you either go down the diner route or the gas station route in mechanics which my father was the latter and school and education was never priority, it was always about supporting the family needs. So, next thing you know, sports are a critical part of any good household, that’s how I was raised and I played everything but golf. I grew up on a golf course because my parents believed that a location of a property was critical to long-term financial success. We lived on a golf course, it was in our backyard, we’d stare at it and we’d use it to play football or baseball or anything but actual golf. And my freshman year at the University of Florida, I started dating a girl on the golf team and she got me hooked to the point where, after four years of hitting balls with the women’s and men’s golf team at the University of Florida for six hours a day, we finished school and realized I’m actually pretty good at the game and, while I have a finance and economics background and degree, let’s try and pursue this for a living and I was blessed. I had a sponsor who helped me succeed at golf on a small scale, it was a humbling experience to say the least. I was competing and playing with Sean O’Hair, Ken Duke, guys who made it out on tour for a very long time, we had the same sponsor so we functioned as a team, it was a collegiate team effectively trying to make it out on tour. And, unfortunately, my second year of competing, I blew out my back doing heavy deadlifts which set me aside for 18 months. While I was recovering, my primary sponsor was in financial services and says, “Hey, you have a background in this, it’s killing you not being able to be on the golf course, why don’t you come work for me while you’re rehabbing so that, when you get back to playing golf, it’s easier for you to talk about our business as a sponsor to try and develop business to throw it to the financial services side?” And Jason, the reality is, after 18 months working there, I fell in love with it. I made way more money working in that environment than I ever would’ve made playing golf because, again, I came to the game late. I was decent but I was nowhere near the caliber of players that are succeeding now out on tour. So, I pivoted after having met my wife and decided to settle down into the wealth management space and, what is it now, 26 years later, going strong. So, it’s been a fun transition from golf into wealth management to say the least. Jason Diamond: Probably my favorite background … I watch a lot of golf, I should caveat that, probably my favorite origin story we’ve had, I’ll give you the Wanamaker trophy or whatever you get, first place. Let’s talk about the business now, so Certuity. For our audience who may not be familiar, tell us a little bit about the firm, what types of clients do you serve and any context you can provide on size as well. We’ll talk about how your firm got there but just give us where we are today to start with. Constantine Hatzivassiliou: So, goal by the end of the year is to have $5 billion in AUM, we’re just shy of that now. We currently service 428 families across the country. So, we’re boutiquey and nimble, we’re based in South Florida, we have offices in New York, San Fran and LA. I’m fortunate to be one of four partners at the firm supporting the growth and the direction of the company and it’s a fun endeavor in the sense that, when we first started, I was employee number four 16 years ago and, with 210 million in AUM at the time to grow it to where we are today, to learn all the things that we have over the years, the curve balls that were thrown at us because all of us came from massive institutional wealth management firms. So, we transitioned from the Bernsteins of the world, the BNY Mellons of the world into an RIA in the South Florida market, there was absolutely an entrepreneurial learning curve involved. Jason Diamond: I bet. And on follow-up question, 16 years ago, did you have a book of business, client business and do you still maintain a book of business today? Constantine Hatzivassiliou: I do. The four of us at the firm share in all of the clients, we work together. Being in the Southeast, I’m responsible for, let’s call it, the Southeast demographics of the US which is a large portion of Certuity’s book. I have a partner in Tennessee, I have a partner in LA and San Francisco and we divide and conquer across the country. But, yes, we came over with a small book, we’ve all grown it organically since then. So, we’ve been very effective in how we’ve grown. Jason Diamond: Just from adding new client money? Constantine Hatzivassiliou: Strictly through new clients referred to us by existing clients. Jason Diamond: Wow. I want to talk more about the growth because that’s remarkable. But before I do, can we double click on the service model? So, I would say the most typical we hear, I think more of our guests typically come from the wirehouse world where it’s I have my book, you have your book. What does your service model look like? So, is it truly, if it’s working well from the end client perspective, you should be interchangeable with your partners and it’s a true team approach? Constantine Hatzivassiliou: How we engage our clients, the theory should be I can get hit by a bus tomorrow and outside of the client not being able to speak to me directly, they will not have a hiccup in any way, shape or form. And when we’re dealing with families across multiple generations, the way we’ve built our platform, that continuity is critical in the engagement process for the clients hiring us to help them through all of the challenges that they face. Jason Diamond: What’s your sweet spot in terms of client size? Constantine Hatzivassiliou: Our average client size today has just shy of eight million AUM with us. We have some clients who have $1 million certainly but they’re strategic in that their friends, their family, they could be centers of influence who help send business our way because they value what it is that we do and there’s a strategic partnership because we might need them for their trust and estate services or their accounting work and they have clients who have a need and we’re on the short list of people they refer to. Jason Diamond: That they trust. Yeah, makes sense. So, I’ve seen this in the news and also even on your own internal materials, I’ve seen you described as both a modern multifamily office, you’ll also obviously hear the term RIA as well. Does that distinction matter at all? And maybe my second part of that question would be what is the distinction between that space, whatever you call it, and the more traditional firm world from a client service perspective? You mentioned that all of your partners from that world. Constantine Hatzivassiliou: I started in this industry truly at an institutional level at Bernstein in New York and, for anyone who knows Bernstein, they really do brainwash you on the fiduciary model and the values affiliated with that philosophy has translated through my career at BNY Mellon which has a very similar feel as Bernstein. And then, when we came here, we instilled that same core value principle of fiduciary responsibility for our clients so we are very different than a traditional wirehouse or brokerage house, it is why we’ve grown so successfully. I would never, one, work for an institution that did bide by those standards and, secondarily, I wished Congress and Senate would turn around and actually implement a mandatory fiduciary liability for all financial advisors because, far too often, we see prospective clients or families get taken advantage of because the individual sitting across from them giving them financial advice is not necessarily aligned with their goals and objectives. Jason Diamond: So, I take it you are fee only. Constantine Hatzivassiliou: We are fee only. Jason Diamond: Yeah. I don’t want to lose the thread on the first part of my question. Do you think there is a distinction between a multifamily office and an RIA? I don’t want to lead you here but to me it implies a different level or different caliber of service model that probably includes more of the ancillary trust and estate and CPA type stuff that higher network clients need but curious what your thoughts are. Constantine Hatzivassiliou: Our first seven years at the firm, we were strictly an RIA, we functioned as an advisory service provider to our clients. What attracted me and my partners to Certuity was the nimbleness of the firm. So, for instance, at BNY Mellon, we often deemed a change necessary as moving an aircraft carrier across the world but it was an impossible task to accomplish. But when you’re small and nimble and clients come to you with a need and you’re in the service, ultimately, first and foremost, it made sense for us to start building out family office services for our clients because they had a need and we found it as a way to centralize everything because, far too often, when the communication standards break down between all the individual parts, one, it’s more expensive for the clients and, two, the process isn’t efficient, things get missed. So, we tried, largely due to our growth, to bring everything in house and our clients appreciate that for it. Jason Diamond: So, this is not a chicken and egg situation, this is very much we had large clients, we were attracting large clients and, in order to service them optimally, here’s what we felt we needed to build. Is that fair? Constantine Hatzivassiliou: 100%. Jason Diamond: Let’s shift gears, I need to go deeper on the professional golf thread a little bit. I promise I won’t make the whole interview about your golf background. I’m curious if you feel like that experience or that, I don’t know, upbringing or, I guess, background laid any foundation for the way you engage with clients today or the way you operate as a business leader today. Constantine Hatzivassiliou: So, there’s a couple parts to that. The golf side, certainly, just from an engaging client perspective, 90% of our clients are golfers. Jason Diamond: It’s very true. Constantine Hatzivassiliou: Right. It just helps because of our background and certainly with some of the clients and partners that we have at the firm, golf is a critical thread in what we do. However, when it comes to golf, what I learned playing golf at a high level directly translates to how we manage money for clients and I’ll express it this way. There’s generally two types of golfers, there’s the artist, the Sergios of the world who don’t fundamentally function off of specific points in their swing or a very structured platform, they see something, their mind becomes creative and they execute on it. I was never that way, I am a numbers person, I think everything analytically, I break everything down to the minute, everything is strategized and organized, I was taught to practice that way by Coach Alexander at the University of Florida and that foundational element seemed easy, it worked. If you practice properly, you’ve succeeded. Under pressure, all those hours and hours of repetition translated to success more often than not. In our industry, it’s process-driven, it has to be unemotional. A bad shot in golf is the equivalent of a bad day in the market, you can’t let one bad day in the market influence everything you do for the next year. Same way on the golf course playing in a tournament, you can’t allow one golf shot to affect the rest of the round. We kid with our clients oftentimes that, while we are fundamentally their financial advisor, more often than not, we’re their financial therapist. We have to control their emotions and make sure they’re not making an irrational decision. For instance, a couple days ago we were out with a client the day that Iran shot down one of the US military helicopters and we’re sitting down at lunch and, all of a sudden, his phone starts blowing up because he’s getting all these Google alerts to the market heading in the wrong direction and he had to go do a life insurance test later on that afternoon. So, all week, he had prepped and he was calm and he was relaxed, he was really excited, he’s, “My wife is setting me up with a new insurance policy and I know it’s for her benefit but all my numbers look good, I’m going to ace this and my premiums will be really low because of it,” it was a $25 million policy. And as he’s looking at his phone and he sees the market collapsing in his mind, his blood pressure rose to no end, you could see that his anxiety level went through the roof and, had I not been there with him at the time to hold his hand through that process, his afternoon would’ve been shot. I would’ve got a phone call saying, “What are we doing to prevent 2% loss in my portfolio,” because that’s how he thinks and, in that moment, I was the therapist to talk him off a ledge. It’s so hard for individuals to manage the stress of the markets, that golfer mentality of, okay, just breathe, relax, let’s see what’s going on, let’s make an educated, confirmed decision, let’s circle back with our caddy if we’re on tour and competing and make a unified decision for the long-term success of the goal that we’re trying to achieve. And what we do every day is the same thing with our clients. Jason Diamond: It’s an incredibly thoughtful answer, I expected a version of the latter part of your answer. I appreciate that you added the part about just most clients like golf, enjoy talking about golf, enjoy playing golf and it’s an effective business development tool, there’s no question. Constantine Hatzivassiliou: So, I have two kids, a 12-year-old and an eight-year-old, my son who’s 12 who’s an exceptional soccer player and wants to, aspires to play professionally one day has now fallen in love with golf which I’m ecstatic about. I think golf and tennis, from a business development perspective- Jason Diamond: Yeah, lifelong sports. Constantine Hatzivassiliou: And I look at it now and my mentor when I started in the business was absolutely right. The fact that I could get a CEO of a Fortune 100 company to want to actively spend four hours with me where we could dive into the weeds about their personal life, their financial situation, their business, you could never get that time otherwise. I urge everyone who’s coming out of college or is going into college who wants to aspire to be in any type of sales related role, golf is a great venue to make long-term relationships. Jason Diamond: And importantly, tennis is not as good on the knees long-term or the back long-term. So, you stick to golf, you get a little more longevity out of it. Constantine Hatzivassiliou: It does help, yes. You’re right. Jason Diamond: My thought always goes to people call it the 15th club in golf, just this mental element of the game and to me it’s the clear moment in golf that always comes to mind for me is the 72nd hole. I don’t know if you just watched the US Women’s Open but Nelly Korda standing over a two-foot putt that I really thought she missed, is there an equivalent of that moment? Are you ever able to recreate that pressure in your current role or is that something that you miss? Constantine Hatzivassiliou: Jason, we have those moments weekly, countless stories. Here’s where I love my job. I’ve transitioned from being the guy behind the screen who is just trading accounts, that’s where we all start and you have to have that foundational perspective of what’s involved in trading an account on a daily basis. Not that we ever picked stocks to an extensive level, we were generally managing ETFs, mutual funds and strategies but I’ll give you an example. So, just last week, we had a family and this is where the family office side comes in more so than the financial advisory services come in. We had spent four months in helping a family sell their business, it was a life altering moment, the dad started the business, the dad had been independently successful, net worth of well into eight figures, was happy and content, brought his son into the business, son was brilliant, saw an opportunity within the business and grew the business by 4,000%. Jason Diamond: Literally? Constantine Hatzivassiliou: Yup. All because of this, the son saw a different direction and pivoted the business and grew it out and here he is, getting ready to have their first child and he gets approached by a firm to acquire his business. They’re ecstatic, the number was perfect, I thought it was overvalued, I was telling them that there’s no way they could turn it down because the number was too significant. Had they gone to the market, they would probably never achieve that level of return. And literally, the day of closing, as we’re expecting the wire to come through, the deal gets pulled. So, here you have the father who’s crushed because he was trying to provide something for his son, the son who’s just devastated because he now was preparing for the second stage of his life and you go through at that stage the classic stages of grief, it’s the cycle that goes through it. I was holding their hand through the three-month process up to there, every day, hourly calls, strategizing, building everything out, organizing the accounting team, organizing the attorneys, getting it all to work out. And here I am, father and son, unbelievably stressed, you have the wives in the background who can’t quite comprehend what’s going on, you have employees beneath them who are now confused as to there was a transition getting ready to take place and the only person who can step in under that critical moment to bring everybody back together was me. So, here I am thinking, 20 years ago, I’ll just pick stocks and bonds for individuals but now I’m in the middle of deal flow trying to help a family solve the issues that arise. So, those are hugely critical- Jason Diamond: Yeah, that’s right. Constantine Hatzivassiliou: …moments where, because our clients are our friends and family, we care for them like they’re our own, you become emotionally attached. And the same pressure that I felt when I won my first mini tour event after college, when I had to get up and down from the impossible bunker shot and I hit it to six feet and I made the crucial put to win my first $23,000 check which I thought was unbelievable, they gave you those big old-fashioned- Jason Diamond: The Happy Gilmore checks. Constantine Hatzivassiliou: Exactly, right? It was the greatest day at that time. The stress of being in that bunker trying to hit that shot is the same stress I felt having two phones ringing, one the father, one the son where we have to keep that situation separate. So, you’re diving into unbelievably stressful situations and the best part is, when we get it all solved and literally yesterday we solved the entire dynamic of the business, I get a text from the son saying that this was the most incredible rollercoaster experience he’s ever experienced, that he’s incredibly grateful for all that I did and our team did for him and that, for the rest of his life, we will always be the first person he calls to solve any of his problems. So, for us, that’s the recreation of that stressful moment and then the victory on the back end. Twenty-five years ago, I got the big Happy Gilmore check. Yesterday, I got that text which I’ve printed out and framed and have it in my office as a constant memory of why it is we do what we do. Jason Diamond: And I would bet that’s more impactful than the $23,000. It’s an incredible story and I’ll tell you why, you said it but it’s as far away from stocks and bonds as you could possibly get. But I think, most advisors, a story like that resonates much more. It leads into my next question. You intentionally choose to service a high net worth segment of the market and I would assume that number’s probably creeping up, not down over time in terms of who you service. My thought is that’s a very competitive segment of the market as well. Is this how you differentiate is just you make it about those types of human examples or is there more to it? Constantine Hatzivassiliou: I’m envious of the advisor who could walk into a room of 200 people and they become the central focal point of the room where they can walk up to every single person and fearlessly ask them incredibly personal information, I’m not wired that way. For me, I’m very much the individual that I will find the one person that I have common ground with, I will deepen that relationship and I will add value and, because of the value that I create, I become a critical component of that individual’s success. And that’s how we’ve grown our business holistically at the firm largely buy that extra layer of service. We’re a commodity business. Being in South Florida, the clubs that I belong to, 10 to 15% of the members feel like they’re financial advisors. You could throw a rock anywhere and find a financial advisor so how do I differentiate myself? The only way I can truly differentiate myself and my firm is the level of service we provide, to go that extra step. To where, when we’re calling a client, they know I’m calling them to support their needs not because I’m seeking something for any ulterior motive. Jason Diamond: But you don’t mention financial planning or investment management or asset custody. Is that because I assume just that’s table stakes? Of course we do that but … Okay, yeah. Makes sense. Constantine Hatzivassiliou: That’s the easy part, right? That’s foundationally … And to your earlier point, you were asking the RIA model. One of the biggest challenges that we had down here in South Florida was the RIA model is new. If you were in the northeast, RIAs are very common, out west, incredibly common. Down here in South Florida, I just finished dealing with Bernie Madoff. Jason Diamond: You were fighting the good education fight a little bit. Constantine Hatzivassiliou: At Bernstein, 108 of our clients had assets with Bernie Madoff. Jason Diamond: Yeah. Constantine Hatzivassiliou: So, when you leave, one of our biggest growing curves as an RIA in South Florida was, when you leave the power of BNY Mellon or Bernstein and you’re some random little shop called Certuity, no one knows who you are. So, there was a big part of our education in the business was learning how to educate clients and prospective clients on the value of the RIA model and the fiduciary model in particular. Jason Diamond: Could you give me the 30-second answer to that if somebody says who are you, your prospect? I’ll tell you why I ask. Forget just Bernstein’s and BNYs of the world, a Morgan Stanley advisor or Merrill advisor has the exact same fear. I’m leaving Merrill to go launch Jason Diamond Wealth Management, my client’s going to say, “Well, who is that?” So, give me the quick pitch. Constantine Hatzivassiliou: Your typical broker, let’s say, you’re not really hiring JP Morgan, you’re not really hiring Wells Fargo, you’re not hiring Goldman Sachs, you’re hiring the advisor who works for that institution. Now, yes, that advisor has the Rolodex of data and information available at the firm level but, ultimately, you’re entrusting that individual to make your decisions for you. The broker who leaves the brokerage model to open up their own brick and mortar operation has to then decide are they continuing down the wirehouse brokerage model where they’re transactional in nature, the economics behind that, far more profitable. The revenue streams affiliated with a brokerage house drastically blows us out of the water. But then you have to also look at yourself in the mirror so how are you running your book of business, how are you running your practice. So, to answer your 30-second question, the RIA model, in my opinion, is truly the only way any family of wealth should proceed with an advisory firm because you want an individual who is aligned in your goals and objectives. Our clients know that I’m their chief financial officer, I work for them. They task us with building out a financial strategy that is customized to their individual needs and they never have to worry do I have an ulterior motive as to why I’m presenting an option in that strategy. And, because of that, the fiduciary model, I think, is critical for our success as a firm and, again, as I mentioned earlier, I wish it’s something that was industry well and not the vast minority. Jason Diamond: Yeah. No, that’s a great answer. So, do you think then that, as time has gone on, this has gotten easier? I assume the answer is yes either because more clients are aware of your brand and/or more aware of the space as a whole. Constantine Hatzivassiliou: The first thing that helped the most was some gray hair. When I started at Bernstein, I attempted to solicit new clients very much the same way I do today. But when I was 26 years old and I’m sitting in front of a family worth and the dad was in the 70s and he lived his life and I’m younger than his kids, he would look at me and say, “What do you really know? What experience do you have?” So, doing this now for as long as I have, the number one thing that has helped me the most in growth is just wisdom and time. Without that, yes, you can be a rockstar stock picker. We have so many kids coming out of college today with the advent of AI and technology that have algorithms that could run unbelievable portfolios and there is a segment of the market who wants to hire and engage those individuals but, generally speaking, the families that we service, that is 10th or 12th on the list of importance. Jason Diamond: No, I think that’s spot on. I think most high net worth clients counterintuitively agree with that, that alpha, for lack of a better term, is really not the name of the game or not in the top five reasons why you would engage with a financial advisor. Constantine Hatzivassiliou: Agreed. The biggest thing that we’ve been doing to educate clients especially in today’s environment, I had a call yesterday with an individual, a client who lives in New Jersey who works out of New York for a hedge fund, he knows our space incredibly well. He’s one of those kids, 28 years old, brilliant, as smart as you’ll ever be but his tax bracket is atrocious. He is paying so much of his W-2 income in taxes and building out a strategy that can reduce his tax liability by several hundred thousand dollars a year far exceeds any alpha I can generate by picking a top decile performer. Jason Diamond: What was the strategy? Move to Florida? I’m just kidding. Don’t answer that. Constantine Hatzivassiliou: We offered that but, unfortunately, he has to be physically in the office in New York City but yes. Jason Diamond: I think that will resonate, by the way, your gray hair comment. I appreciate the humility and the modesty in that because, the reality is, one of the questions I was going to ask you about was next-gen talent cultivation. In my opinion, this is a hard game for younger folks for that reason. People sit across from other people with a lot of money and they say, “Why am I going to entrust you with my life’s work when you just don’t have that degree of experience?” I was asking more even about your firm success and your firm story, have you felt like that’s caught on more? Do you have more brand awareness, if you will, now when you go to a prospect meeting or do you think you’re still constantly fighting that education fight? Constantine Hatzivassiliou: So, first part, brands, it’s improved in our immediate network. In our little bubble of the world, yes, it’s known. Let’s call it, in South Florida the influential attorneys, the accountants, the divorce attorneys know who we are because, having been down here long enough, we’ve had opportunities to work together. Our network of friends, certainly, the word spreads. But in the grand scheme of things, we are so small in the South Florida landscape or the LA landscape or the New York landscape so any incremental gain that we pick up is meaningful. And then, as it relates to young talent, our success is completely, long-term, derived by the young talent that we bring in to nurture them to help them grow. I look at our success, two of our critical mentors and board members of our firm are in their 80s, their children and grandchildren, nepotism aside, whether it was interning while in college or coming to work for us after school, they’re our best employees. And our goal as a firm, just like how I was offered the opportunity to become a partner and own a piece of the business, our goal long term will be to transition the business to this younger generation that we’re developing. I look at, again, those two board members who are in their 80s, the advice they’ve given me is don’t ever stop working, you have to be doing something. And I turn to them and say, “I don’t work every day.” I put in 20 hour days, well, not quite 20, 18 hour days but it’s never work because, what I do every day, I don’t deem it work, I love what I do, I don’t ever see myself stopping. Because they’ll tell me all of their friends that have stopped working or sold their business, invariably, the men die within six months because boredom and we always joke around that you’ll continue to work forever. So, I would hope that one day I transition into that advisory board member role where I step aside day-to-day activity where I’m now a mentor to our younger generation that we’re promoting into partners because we’ve made promises to our clients that we will forever be their family office. So, we have to, as part of our growth model, have those transitions in place because we’re servicing many families that have 85-year-old clients and two-year-old clients and we’re tasked with the two-year-olds as well as the 85-year-old. Jason Diamond: I also feel like there’s a little bit of younger generations I think have been reluctant to some degree to get it, you can disagree with this, to get into this space because there’s a more appeal to things like investment banking and sales and trading to some degree. The other problem obviously you alluded to is asset gathering. Your model speaks so clearly to success because you don’t say I own the client, that’s my relationship. To me, you plant the seeds of being able to handle succession much better than somebody who does the mine is mine and yours is yours approach. Is that fair? Constantine Hatzivassiliou: That’s completely accurate. And I think there’s two types of people that serve in the financial advisory space. You have the individual who is analytics driven, who likes being behind the bank of monitors trading account and there’s a critical part of our firm and our success is driven by the team in the office that aren’t necessarily client facing that do all the heavy lifting every day because they’re really doing the heavy work. Myself, my partners, the select few, while talented and able to do that, realize the value that we present is quarterbacking the relationship and helping understand all the components. We kid around that we’ve all stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night, we’ve become experts in tax, we’ve become experts at trust and estate planning, we’ve become experts at divorce, we’ve become experts at the medical field. It’s shocking how it’s 2:00 in the morning and you get a phone call, panic attack by a client saying they need a doctor for X, Y and Z, can you connect me. So, the younger generation, yes, the sexy space is investment banking and that is really hard work. I could not do what my friends at Goldman do who are at these private mid-market funds, that’s just not me. I’ve been fortunate that I stumbled into an avenue in financial services that I think perfectly fits my personality and my want and desire to help others because that’s what we’re driven by and we try and hire people with that same mindset. The hardest thing as an RIA especially in South Florida is finding and retaining talent that is like-minded and that could function well within our family. Jason Diamond: If you build a firm predicated on culture and client service, I understand, certainly, the importance of that. I want to shift gears, I don’t want to lose this thought. You mentioned organic growth, it’s incredible. You have not mentioned inorganic growth at all and maybe because you haven’t had to but give me your thoughts on M&A, private equity in this space, do you have plans to sell the business, take on a capital partner, buy other RIAs? Constantine Hatzivassiliou: Yeah. So, I understand why private equity in the last 10 years has come into the market. For years, they bought up insurance practices, that recurring revenue, sticky assets, it makes sense. Personally, I’m not a fan of them being in our markets, I think they’re motivated at the end of the day by AUM growth, revenue growth and the second transaction which, for most of our clients, would not make sense because, again, that then questions why it is that we’re motivated to do something. Am I taking extra risk in the portfolio because I want to grow the AUM because I’m looking to sell in a year? Am I bringing in a strategy that has a higher fee? For us, it doesn’t work. In the brokerage model, it makes perfect sense. Now, there are some RIAs who leave the wirehouses, open up an RIA shop, do really well for their clients but don’t have the long-term aspirations of making the institution a legacy to where they’re passing it off. I hope my kids one day want to come work for dad and follow in his steps, that’d be amazing. Just like our younger generation working at the firm, our goal is we’ve already targeted the three or four guys that will be partner one day and we’ll transition the business over to them. But it’s okay if there’s an RIA out there who doesn’t have that transition product or isn’t motivated by that and is looking at it as a vehicle that I’ve built a really good successful book of business and I want to now retire and spend time with my family and kids and travel, et cetera, and that’s where PE steps in and offers an attractive number and the person makes their move. So, I can’t fault the individual for wanting that and I’m not saying that they’re not doing well by their clients, it’s just, for us, I’m not a fan of it because, again, I’m first critically and always focused on what’s best for the client. Jason Diamond: Fair. And I largely agree with some of what you said around private equity in this space but private equity enables … Obviously, it’s capital so which enables acquisitions which is why a lot of firms take on private equity. So, what about the idea of potentially buying businesses to start up inorganic growth? Constantine Hatzivassiliou: We have gone down the road of acquiring other institutions potentially. The challenge is, because we manage money so uniquely and our approach is so different, I’m not going to bring on an institution or bring in a new partner to the firm or a new book of business that we’ve acquired if the methodology and the life of that book doesn’t mirror ours. So, yes, there is opportunities to grow through acquisition, it’s not something that we are leaning on heavily. However, for the right institution that’s available that is aligned with our thinking, whose clients would value and appreciate how we do things or, if that institution is doing something truly unique that we would want to bolt onto our platform, all day long because, again, for the benefit of the client, it makes sense. So, yes, there are opportunities for that. Too often we find that, when a book is available for acquisition, the highest bidder tends to win out and we don’t have the deep enough pockets to write a multiple that we don’t deem to be, let’s call it, market neutral. Jason Diamond: Yeah, market prudent. I understand the premise and I think that’s fair. I also think you have the luxury, because of your organic growth, you can be super, super picky about inorganic and I love how you bring it all back to the lens of the client. Can this improve the client experience in some way? And, if so, yes, we’ll take a look. I got time for one more question, I can’t believe time has flown. You’ve had a remarkable journey, professional golf now partner at a $4 billion plus on the way to $5 billion RIA multifamily office. What are you most proud of when you reflect on your career journey? Constantine Hatzivassiliou: What am I most proud of? To see what Rich, myself and Mark and Jayson built over these years from where we were sitting in a small conference room, struggling to figure out how do we find a way to hire a trust and estate attorney to help with that component, which CPAs do we bring on board in-house because clients have a need. So, the entrepreneurial spirit involved in growing the business, the late nights, the struggles, the banter back and forth, to put so much blood, sweat and tears into this and now to look at all that we’ve accomplished, being in four separate states with offices, having so many wonderful employees that have come to us from all over the world, Germany, from China, from Tokyo, bringing people in to the US and building out something that, when we leave at the end of the day, are incredibly proud of. My father’s no longer with us, for 50 years, I always strived to make him proud because he never told me that he was proud of me, he was the classic Greek old-fashioned dad. I think he looks down on his now for everything that we’ve built and would say that he’s proud of us so, for me, that’s the best. Jason Diamond: Yeah. That’s an incredible place to end. Thank you for sharing that, it’s a touching place to end and I appreciate you being open. Thank you. This has been one of my favorite episodes, your journey, your humility, your honesty, your transparency, it’s no wonder you’ve built a business you’ve built. So, thanks for joining us, Constantine. I look forward to having you back on to talk about the next chapter. Constantine Hatzivassiliou: Thank you. Next time we’ll do it from the golf course. Jason Diamond: Oh, absolutely. Mindy Diamond: As a financial advisor, you hold yourself to the highest standards of integrity, honesty and credibility. You are successful because you take your professional responsibility seriously and are dedicated to your clients. But are you living your best business life? Are your goals aligned with your firms or could a better option exist? Should I Stay or Should I Go? Is a book written with you in mind? It’s a self-guided journey that walks you through the key steps that we take with our advisor clients. This strategic thought process and roadmap to professional self-discovery is designed to help you ask the right questions and think critically and objectively whether you’re considering change or not. Learn how to get your copy at diamond-consultants.com/thebook.   Lessons from the Links: From Golf Pro to $5B Family Office Partner A conversation with Jason Diamond and Constantine Hatzivassiliou, Partner at Certuity. Jason Diamond: Welcome to the latest episode of our podcast series for financial advisors. Today’s episode is Lessons from the Links: From Golf Pro to $5B Family Office Partner. It’s a conversation with Constantine Hatzivassiliou, partner at Certuity. I’m Jason Diamond and this is the Diamond Podcast for Financial Advisors. Mindy Diamond: At Diamond Consultants, we help elite advisors identify the right environment for their businesses to thrive whether that’s at a wirehouse, boutique or independent firm. With nearly three decades of experience, we’ve guided thousands of advisors and represented more than a quarter of a trillion dollars in assets transitioned and, each year, one in four advisors managing $1 billion or more who change firms are our clients. Our process is education-driven and based on building relationships starting as your strategic partner well before you’re even thinking of a move. To schedule a confidential conversation, call us at (908) 879-1002. Wondering why advisors change firms and where they’re headed? Are transition deals going up or down? Those very questions and more inspired us to create our annual advisor transition report, it’s the award-winning data-driven resource designed for advisors that connects the dots between the motivations around movement and the firm’s appetite for top talent. Arm yourself with the knowledge you need to make smart decisions, download your copy at diamond-consultants.com/transitionreport. Jason Diamond: Golf is a way of exposing who you really are, there are no teammates to blame, no clock to run out and no hiding from a bad decision. Every shot demands discipline, patience and the ability to stay focused when the pressure is highest, my guest today knows that firsthand. Before becoming a partner at Certuity, a multifamily office approaching five billion in assets, Constantine Hatzivassiliou was pursuing a career as a professional golfer. An injury ultimately redirected his path towards wealth management but many of the lessons he learned on the course still shaped the way he serves clients today. Certuity has grown from roughly 210 million in assets to nearly five billion, that’s impressive on its own but the more interesting story is how they’ve done it. The firm has grown largely through referrals built around a multifamily office model and focused on becoming far more than an investment advisor to the families it serves. In Constantine’s view, the best advisors aren’t simply managing portfolios, they’re the first person clients call when a business is being sold, a family issue becomes complicated or a major decision carries consequences well beyond the balance sheet. Constantine and I discuss the lessons golf teaches about handling pressure then we dive into the evolution from the traditional wealth management world to the multifamily office model, why referrals drive nearly all of Certuity’s growth, how he thinks about private equity’s influence on the advisory business and what it takes to become the first call for the wealthy families they serve and perhaps, most importantly, why the same qualities that help someone succeed on a golf course may be surprisingly relevant to building trust over a lifetime. It’s a great conversation so let’s dive in. Constantine, thank you so much for joining, thrilled to have you here. Constantine Hatzivassiliou: Thank you for having me, excited to be here. Jason Diamond: Yeah, absolutely. So, you had an unconventional path to wealth management, you started as a professional golfer, I think that’s a first for us on this show, before ultimately transitioning into this world. Can you tell us a little bit about the journey and what brought you here? Constantine Hatzivassiliou: Yeah, I never thought I’d be here, my parents were certainly shocked that I got here path wise. Growing up, immigrants from Greece, you settle into Florida the traditional way where you either go down the diner route or the gas station route in mechanics which my father was the latter and school and education was never priority, it was always about supporting the family needs. So, next thing you know, sports are a critical part of any good household, that’s how I was raised and I played everything but golf. I grew up on a golf course because my parents believed that a location of a property was critical to long-term financial success. We lived on a golf course, it was in our backyard, we’d stare at it and we’d use it to play football or baseball or anything but actual golf. And my freshman year at the University of Florida, I started dating a girl on the golf team and she got me hooked to the point where, after four years of hitting balls with the women’s and men’s golf team at the University of Florida for six hours a day, we finished school and realized I’m actually pretty good at the game and, while I have a finance and economics background and degree, let’s try and pursue this for a living and I was blessed. I had a sponsor who helped me succeed at golf on a small scale, it was a humbling experience to say the least. I was competing and playing with Sean O’Hair, Ken Duke, guys who made it out on tour for a very long time, we had the same sponsor so we functioned as a team, it was a collegiate team effectively trying to make it out on tour. And, unfortunately, my second year of competing, I blew out my back doing heavy deadlifts which set me aside for 18 months. While I was recovering, my primary sponsor was in financial services and says, “Hey, you have a background in this, it’s killing you not being able to be on the golf course, why don’t you come work for me while you’re rehabbing so that, when you get back to playing golf, it’s easier for you to talk about our business as a sponsor to try and develop business to throw it to the financial services side?” And Jason, the reality is, after 18 months working there, I fell in love with it. I made way more money working in that environment than I ever would’ve made playing golf because, again, I came to the game late. I was decent but I was nowhere near the caliber of players that are succeeding now out on tour. So, I pivoted after having met my wife and decided to settle down into the wealth management space and, what is it now, 26 years later, going strong. So, it’s been a fun transition from golf into wealth management to say the least. Jason Diamond: Probably my favorite background … I watch a lot of golf, I should caveat that, probably my favorite origin story we’ve had, I’ll give you the Wanamaker trophy or whatever you get, first place. Let’s talk about the business now, so Certuity. For our audience who may not be familiar, tell us a little bit about the firm, what types of clients do you serve and any context you can provide on size as well. We’ll talk about how your firm got there but just give us where we are today to start with. Constantine Hatzivassiliou: So, goal by the end of the year is to have $5 billion in AUM, we’re just shy of that now. We currently service 428 families across the country. So, we’re boutiquey and nimble, we’re based in South Florida, we have offices in New York, San Fran and LA. I’m fortunate to be one of four partners at the firm supporting the growth and the direction of the company and it’s a fun endeavor in the sense that, when we first started, I was employee number four 16 years ago and, with 210 million in AUM at the time to grow it to where we are today, to learn all the things that we have over the years, the curve balls that were thrown at us because all of us came from massive institutional wealth management firms. So, we transitioned from the Bernsteins of the world, the BNY Mellons of the world into an RIA in the South Florida market, there was absolutely an entrepreneurial learning curve involved. Jason Diamond: I bet. And on follow-up question, 16 years ago, did you have a book of business, client business and do you still maintain a book of business today? Constantine Hatzivassiliou: I do. The four of us at the firm share in all of the clients, we work together. Being in the Southeast, I’m responsible for, let’s call it, the Southeast demographics of the US which is a large portion of Certuity’s book. I have a partner in Tennessee, I have a partner in LA and San Francisco and we divide and conquer across the country. But, yes, we came over with a small book, we’ve all grown it organically since then. So, we’ve been very effective in how we’ve grown. Jason Diamond: Just from adding new client money? Constantine Hatzivassiliou: Strictly through new clients referred to us by existing clients. Jason Diamond: Wow. I

(00:00-25:14) Martin thought about bringing Jackson some soup but he didn't. Martin's never wrong. John Rice (Troublemaker from Cape Giraredeau) is on phone lines. Troublemaker says Martin's a 'cool dude.' Makes the trip up from the Cape for Cardinal games about 20-25 times a year. Larry Nickel is up next. Larry watched both Raw and The Derby last night. You don't boo nobodies.(25:22-39:16) Tim's theme song. Someone wants a text audit from like 5 years ago. Comps to Dave Winfield. Never would have seen that moment from last night coming. Sounds like Tim's younger son is going to be a snootful. Jordan Walker jersey sales. France and Spain today.(39:26-51:21) You can get into the ASG tonight for just a little over $1.3K. Chairman is fighting with Chicken Tater in the YouTube chat. Big Al calls in to defend us against Chicken Tater.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Papers is back. Jordan Walker's coming out party is taking the heat of Jackson faking his illness. Playing the villain. People seemed to enjoy the new format. Audio of the call of the Derby winning home run. Barry Bonds talking about Jordan Walker's performance. 31 HRs in 53 swings.Summer '98. Audio of Kyle Schwarber after the derby tipping his cap to Jordan Walker. Jordan Walker talking about 40,000 people booing him at 'The Bank.' Audio of Walker and his family on the Netflix set after the derby.It's Taboo's birthday. The Silent One. Jayson Stark comparing Walker to Chris Carpenter. Audio of a Philly influencer concerned for Jordan Walker's safety. The script was perfect last night. Audio of Buster Olney and Doug Glanville saying this was the best derby they've seen in a while. Chuck in Soulard wants to talk it over. Doug doesn't like Philly fans because they booed Santa. Sassie Cassie.Martin thought about bringing Jackson some soup but he didn't. Martin's never wrong. John Rice (Troublemaker from Cape Giraredeau) is on phone lines. Troublemaker says Martin's a 'cool dude.' Makes the trip up from the Cape for Cardinal games about 20-25 times a year. Larry Nickel is up next. Larry watched both Raw and The Derby last night. You don't boo nobodies.Tim's theme song. Someone wants a text audit from like 5 years ago. Comps to Dave Winfield. Never would have seen that moment from last night coming. Sounds like Tim's younger son is going to be a snootful. Jordan Walker jersey sales. France and Spain today.You can get into the ASG tonight for just a little over $1.3K. Chairman is fighting with Chicken Tater in the YouTube chat. Big Al calls in to defend us against Chicken Tater.Listen to these vocals. The new Will Ferrell show. Angry and agro. Lots of Jordan Walker and home run derby discussion.Look, Doug. Terry Crouppen is back in studio. Talking travels with Terry. St. Louis is gray and needs painted bright colors. Andy stays walking his dog. Didn't there used to be a wall there? The stink of failure. Safaris.Jackson's playing hurt today. We've got Jose Fermin on the phone lines who was in Philly last night for the HR Derby. His cousin who works for the Phillies hooked him up with tickets. Last night had the intensity of a playoff game. He was the only Cardinal fans in his section. The Philly fans. Walker performing under pressure in front of the raucous Philly crowd. He likes the nickname "Ferminator." Could he pitch or catch? He'll be at the game tonight as well.People are jumping off ship and heading to Joy 99 FM. Papers Flu Game. EMOTD.How long does Doug have to listen to this? Jackson is just grinding. Home remedies from Nonna. Meek and feeble. Don't bring that back handed nonsense. Don't straw man me, ho. Replaying the audio of Barry Bonds talking about it being the greatest HR Derby he's ever seen.And the winner of the EMOTD is...See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

We dive into the nightmare of credit card fraud and how Zach's identity got stolen for Uber rides and Texas Roadhouse gift cards. We also tackle the massive price hikes hitting the tech and gaming world thanks to AI data centers buying up all the hardware, the reality of the Dead Internet Theory, and GTA 6's insane presales. Plus, we finally address the logistical mysteries of the men's room and why some guys prefer to sit. Pull up a chair and join the conversation.Thank you for being part of this crowd!00:00 - Start!00:39 - Welcome to the Crowd01:23 - Naming Kids After Where They Were Conceived04:16 - Lie Detectors & Thumbtacks06:14 - Exciting Lives, Cancer Jokes & Eulogies09:51 - The Legend of "Soft Zach"11:07 - We Got Hacked (Credit Card Fraud)17:46 - The Truth About Men's Bathrooms20:47 - Nostalgic Comedy Music24:21 - Why Happy Feet is Terrible29:43 - Space IPOs32:56 - Student Drivers & Hand-Crank Windows37:51 - Putting Unleaded Gas in a Diesel48:25 - GTA 6 Makes $9 Billion in 24 Hours59:38 - The AI Music Crisis & Beyond Disdain1:07:57 - The Dead Internet Theory1:12:20 - Insane Tech & Console Price Hikes1:24:53 - The Controversial Box Elder Data Center1:29:31 - Microchip Breakthroughs That Break Your Brain1:35:38 - OutroReddit- Our Subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/FivesACrowd- Our Account: https://www.reddit.com/user/FivesACrowdPodcastFollow Our Personal AccountsAustin - https://allmylinks.com/austinspomerCam - https://www.instagram.com/effinburch/Chris - https://www.instagram.com/thechrishummel/Tony - https://www.instagram.com/theonlytonyc/Zach - https://www.instagram.com/zvanbeekum/P.O. Box**Please no packages, letters only**Five's A Crowd Podcast1123 N Fairfield Rd #1373 Layton, UT 84041

This lemon pudding never gets boring – it's tangy and vibrant, light and soft in texture. A great way to take advantage of in-season lemons and use up any less-than-fresh yoghurt. Waste not, want not! Makes 4 ramekins or one larger pudding Ingredients 2 tbsps. butter, softened ½ cup sugar Zest from two lemons Juice of one lemon 2 heaped tbsps. flour 2 large eggs (or 3 small), separated 1 ¼ cups plain yoghurt (stale is ok) Whipped cream to serve Zest to serve Method Preheat the oven to 160C. Grease four individual ramekins/soufflé dishes (or one medium sized ceramic dish) liberally with butter. Cream the butter and sugar, then stir in zest and lemon juice, flour, and egg yolks. Mix well, then add yoghurt and stir to combine. Beat the egg whites until stiff, and gently fold into the above mixture. Gently pour the mixture into your prepared dishes and place these in a roasting dish. Pour boiling water around them, coming to about halfway up the ramekins. Bake for 30-35 minutes (or 50-60 minutes if one large pudding) or until golden and slightly crunchy on top, and spongy with some thick custard-like lemony goo in the bottom. Serve with whipped cream and extra zest. LISTEN ABOVE See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It's Thursday, July 9th, A.D. 2026. This is The Worldview in 5 Minutes heard on 140 radio stations and at www.TheWorldview.com. I'm Adam McManus. (Adam@TheWorldview.com) By Jonathan Clark and Adam McManus 2026 Global Persecution of Christian Index released International Christian Concern released its 2026 Global Persecution Index. The report highlights 20 countries where Christians face persecution. These countries include China, Cuba, India, Iran, and Nigeria. The report also put a spotlight on leaders of countries where persecution is worsening. These leaders include Nigerian President Bola Ahmed Tinubu, Nicaraguan President Daniel Ortega, Syrian President Ahmed al-Sharaa, and Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi. The report noted, “Despite mounting repression, Christianity continues to grow in unexpected places.” Examples of this include the Iranian house church movement and China's underground churches. Hebrews 13:3 says, “Continue to remember those in prison as if you were together with them in prison, and those who are mistreated as if you yourselves were suffering.” Christian British nurse, who affirmed biological accuracy, left alone The United Kingdom's Nursing and Midwifery Council dropped its case against a Christian nurse last week. Jennifer Melle worked at a hospital in London. In 2024, she used biologically-accurate pronouns with a patient who was pretending to be the opposite sex. She then faced suspension and an investigation. Thankfully, the nursing regulatory body has ended its case against her.  Melle commented, “Regulators should protect patients from real harm, not punish nurses for holding Christian beliefs, speaking truthfully about biological sex, or raising serious concerns in the public interest.” Trump: Ceasefire with Iran is over after Iran attacked ships in Strait The United States carried out retaliatory strikes on Iran yesterday. The strikes came hours after Iran attacked commercial vessels in the Strait of Hormuz. The Trump administration also restored sanctions on Iran's oil sales. U.S. President Donald Trump told reporters he considers the ceasefire with Iran to be over.  Listen. TRUMP: “They're vicious, violent people. If they had a nuclear weapon, they'd use it. As far as I'm concerned, it's over. I'll speak to our negotiators. They want to negotiate. They're good people: Steve Witkoff, Jared Kushner. But they have to come back to me. As far as I'm concerned, it's just a waste of time dealing with them.” Ban on Planned Parenthood funding expired last week The federal government's ban on Medicaid funding for Planned Parenthood expired last week. Congress passed legislation last year that cut the funding for just one year. As a result, dozens of Planned Parenthood locations have closed since then. However, the abortion giant can now resume its reimbursement from Medicaid. Some Republican lawmakers are calling for another bill to defund Planned Parenthood.  Call your Congressman at 202-225-3121 and ask him or her to vote to continue to defund the abortion giant Planned Parenthood. If you don't know who it is, click here and type in your zipcode. Young Men's Christian Assoc. allows men in women's locker rooms Parents are calling on the Young Men's Christian Association to change its transgender policies. The publicly-funded organization allows men, pretending to be women, in women's bathrooms and locker rooms.  The American Parents Coalition says this violates a recent U.S. Supreme Court ruling. The decision affirmed that Title IX protections in federal law are based on biological sex. The coalition stated, “The YMCA has ignored parents' concerns for far too long while maintaining policies that undermine the privacy, safety, and fairness Title IX was enacted to protect.” Plus, it violates the group's stated vision which was to put Christian values into practice by developing a healthy body, mind, and spirit. Send a polite, 2-sentence letter of objection to the president of the Young Men's Christian Association and ask them to live up to their name and their Biblical founding by opposing this transgender insanity. Suzanne McCormick, President, Young Men's Christian Association, 101 North Wacker Drive, Chicago, Illinois 60606. (Write to your local YMCA and object as well). Trump's tariffs led to Toyota announcing $3.6 billion U.S. expansion Toyota is expanding its manufacturing in the United States. On Monday, the Japanese car maker announced a $3.6 billion expansion in San Antonio, Texas. This will move some of its production from Mexico to the U.S. It will also bring about 2,000 new jobs to the Lone Star State. This expansion comes after the Trump administration imposed tariffs on imported vehicles and auto parts.  Presbyterian Church U.S.A. defends transgender surgeries for kids The largest Presbyterian denomination in the United States supported transgender surgeries last week. The General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church USA voted 441-30 in favor of an overture known as “On Access to Healthcare.” The measure defends body-mutilating surgeries for people, including children, who pretend to be the opposite sex. 2 Timothy 4:3-4 says, “For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.” Christian US soccer player: “I'm just trying to bring people into His light.” The American men's soccer team lost to Belgium on Monday. The game knocked the U.S. out of the 2026 World Cup. Despite the loss, players on the U.S. team continued their practice of praying together on the field after the game. Player Mark McKenzie led the prayer, having become a spiritual leader on the team.  He told The Athletic, “The Lord is at the center of it all. He is the main purpose. … And I'm just trying to bring people into His light in some way.” Worldview listeners weigh in from Washington and North Carolina Rachel Lundberg in Washougal, Washington wrote, “I like The Worldview because It allows me to feel like I'm aware of important things going on without having to spend so much time watching other news and sorting it out or wondering if it's true. I almost always just read it in my email and then I share certain parts with my kids and family. “My 13-year-old son recently wanted to subscribe with his own email so he can read it on his own. I also love when there is an action step to send an email or letter. Makes me feel like I can make a difference. Thank you!” Wow! I loved that last comment, Rachel.  I gave you two suggested action steps today. I hope you follow through on them.  I agree with you.  It feels empowering.  I always try to write or call myself every time I recommend it to you. And Chris Smith in Columbus, North Carolina wrote, “I've been a listener now for 10 years. I've become a vocal and financial supporter as well.  In this current era, it's very difficult to find the truth about what is going on to our fellow Christians in the world without doing a lot of digging. “Since I first found you on Sermon Audio, I've become an addict of your newscast. It's a part of my weekday morning routine to read or to listen to The Worldview. I especially appreciate your correlation to Scripture in two of your stories, your encouragement to keep praying for our persecuted brothers and sisters, and how we can help them financially.” 9 Worldview listeners gave $1,590 on Wednesday And finally, on Wednesday by 7:00pm Central, 9 Worldview listeners stepped up to the plate and invested their treasure to fund the six-member team behind The Worldview for another 365 days. Our thanks to Augustine in Auburn, California and Hope in Big Lake, Minnesota – both of whom gave $20. We were touched by the generosity of Janet in Canton, Illinois, Janice in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and Hannah in San Jose, California – each of whom gave $100. And we're grateful to God for Melinda in Indianapolis, Indiana who pledged $10/month for 12 months for a gift of $120, Adam in Gile, Wisconsin who gave $150, Tom in Spokane, Washington who pledged $40/month for 12 months for a gift of $480, and Nancy in Flagstaff, Arizona who gave $500. Those 9 gifts add up to $1,590. Ready for our new grand total? Drum roll please. (drum roll sound effect) $19,288 (sound effect of people cheering) That means we have just 2 days to raise $11,587 to hit our $30,875 goal by tomorrow at 12 midnight on Friday, July 10th.  To be honest, that is going to be a challenge. But with God, all things are possible. Since the beginning of this month-long campaign to fully fund the six-member Worldview team for another year, the greatest number of donations has been 15. Let's double that today!  Would you consider choosing to be 1 of 30 people to step up to the plate with a one-time gift or a monthly pledge? That would help us to get significantly closer to our $30,875 goal by tomorrow, Friday, July 10th, at 12 midnight. Go to TheWorldview.com, click on Give, select the dollar amount, and make sure to click on the “recurring” button if that's your wish.  This Christian newscast champions the truth and a Biblical worldview. Invest in it today for another 365 days. I'm reminded of the words from the prophet Isaiah who said, “Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, ‘Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?' And I said, ‘Here am I. Send me!'” Close And that's The Worldview on this Thursday, July 9th, in the year of our Lord 2026. Subscribe for free by Spotify, Amazon Music, or by iTunes or email to our unique Christian newscast at www.TheWorldview.com. Plus, you can get the Generations app through Google Play or The App Store. I'm Adam McManus (Adam@TheWorldview.com). Seize the day for Jesus Christ.

There are celebrity weddings...There are over-the-top celebrity weddings...And then there's whatever the heck happened in today's episode.The gang dives headfirst into the internet's latest obsession with a completely unhinged conspiracy theory surrounding Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce's wedding. Apparently it wasn't just a wedding—it was an eldritch ritual to summon an ancient cosmic deity while Jared Leto prepared to become the real-life Morbius. Sure. Makes perfect sense. That's how mornings start around here.Once everyone agrees that absolutely none of this sounds impossible, Rafe introduces a brand-new game that immediately exposes just how much celebrity wedding trivia everyone somehow knows. Is the Empire State Building really lighting up for the wedding? Did Adam Sandler write a song? Were chicken nuggets topped with caviar? Did Taylor sing her vows? Who leaked wedding secrets? How many Grammy Awards were secretly wandering around the reception? And perhaps the biggest mystery of all...why does King Scott know so much about Taylor Swift?The competition gets way more intense than anyone expected as everyone argues through true-or-false questions that become increasingly ridiculous while somehow remaining just believable enough to fool the room. Every answer turns into another excuse to roast billionaires, celebrity culture, impossible wedding budgets, elaborate menus, sports legends, and anyone willing to admit they've been following celebrity news a little too closely.Expect fake facts, real laughs, terrible strategy, conspiracy theories that somehow sound convincing, and enough sarcastic commentary to make every Swiftie slightly uncomfortable—but hopefully still entertained.If you've ever wondered what happens when a comedy podcast gives a room full of sarcastic morning radio hosts a celebrity trivia game based almost entirely on internet insanity, this is exactly that.Spoiler alert: somebody unexpectedly becomes the resident Swift expert, someone else keeps overthinking every question, and everyone leaves wondering whether chicken nuggets and caviar actually belong together.It's another completely unnecessary deep dive into pop culture chaos that somehow becomes one of the funniest competitions we've played.Whether you're here for celebrity gossip, sports references, bizarre internet theories, or simply watching adults confidently answer questions they absolutely don't know, this comedy podcast delivers exactly the kind of beautiful disaster you've come to expect.Because around here, facts are optional, confidence is mandatory, and somehow that's what makes this comedy podcast work.Follow The Rizzuto Show → https://linktr.ee/rizzshow for more from your favorite daily comedy show.Connect with The Rizzuto Show Comedy Podcast online → https://1057thepoint.com/RizzShow.Hear The Rizz Show daily on the radio at 105.7 The Point | Hubbard Radio in St. Louis, MO.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Dr. Deb Muth 0:05What if your immune system isn’t broken, it’s just confused? What if chronic Lyme, the autoimmune condition, the food sensitivities, the exhaustion that never lifts what if those aren’t separate problems but one problem? A misfiring immune system that nobody taught how to stand down. Today’s guest has spent over 15 years doing exactly that, retraining the immune system from the inside out with a therapy so precise, so safe, and so effective that it has changed the lives of thousands of people who’d been written off by conventional medicine. Stay with me. This one changes everything.Welcome back to Let’s Talk Wellness Now, the show where we pull back the curtain on chronic illness, challenge outdated medical thinking, and hand you the real tools to heal from the inside out. I’m Dr. Deb, integrative and functional medicine practitioner, medical detective, and your straight-talking guide through the world of root cause medicine. Today, we’re going to dive deep into the immune system, specifically something called low-dose immunotherapy or LDI, and also into some hormones, chronic fatigue, and what it actually looks like to treat the cause instead of suppressing the symptoms. If you or someone you love has been told there’s nothing more we can do, this episode was made for you. Grab your cup of coffee, Settle in and let’s get to work. Now, before we bring in today’s guest, a quick word from our sponsor, and then we are diving straight in. I promise. Did you know sweating can literally heal your cells? Infrared saunas don’t just relax you, they detox your body, balance hormones, and boost mitochondrial energy. I’m obsessed with my HealthTech Sauna, and right now you can save $500 with my code at healthtechhealth.com/dr-muth-req-25.I want to start you with a story because this is one I’ve heard hundreds of times in my own practice, and I’m guessing you’ve either lived it or know someone who has. She’s 42. She’s been sick for years. Fatigue that doesn’t lift with sleep, joint pain that migrates, brain fog so thick she can’t finish a sentence, and a gut that seems to react to everything she eats. She’s been to her GP, rheumatologist, gastroenterologist, maybe even an immunologist, and every single lab comes back within quote unquote normal limits. She’s handed a prescription for something to manage the symptoms and sent home. Maybe she’s been told it’s anxiety. Maybe she’s been told it’s aging, or maybe and this one always breaks my heart she’s told it’s all in her head. That woman is not imagining it. She is not anxious and she’s not aging poorly. Her immune system has lost its ability to tolerate things it’s supposed to tolerate, and no one has offered her the therapy that could actually fix that. And what we’re talking about today with my guest has been practicing integrative medicine for over 15 years. Ty Vincent holds a medical degree from the University of Washington. He completed his family medicine residency in Anchorage, Alaska, and since has built one of the most impressive clinical repertoires I’ve seen anywhere in this field: acupuncture, Chinese medicine, environmental medicine, bioidentical hormones, hyperbaric medicine, chelation, regenerative peptide therapy, psychedelic-assisted therapy, and nutritional medicine.He lives and practices on the Big Island of Hawaii. He is married has 9 children. Oh my gosh, 9! And he has personally navigated type 1 diabetes, which, as you’ll hear, is not separate from his mission. It actually is his mission. And most importantly, he is a world authority on low-dose immunotherapy, a therapy he pioneered in 2008 and since has trained over 200 providers globally and changed the course of chronic illness care as we know it. I have had the pleasure of learning from Dr. Ty Vincent. I have had pleasure of taking his low-dose immunotherapy course when he first started back in like 2008 or 2009. I remember doing it back then and learning more about it in 2011. And this is going to be a great conversation for us. So one quick ask that I have for you guys, if this sounds like something that you want to learn more about and you’ve listened to some of our shows, please share like, subscribe. It means a lot. It helps us grow our channel. It helps us continue to provide for you different topics, different speakers, and really give you what it is that you’re looking for.So without further ado, I’d like to introduce you to Dr. Ty Vincent. All right, so Dr. Ty Vincent, this is gonna be a great conversation. We were just chatting before we went live of my training with you guys way back in like 2015, and I’m excited to hear all the new things that you’ve got going on. But introduce yourself to the audience. Tell us a little bit about you, how you got involved in this, uh, where you’re at, all that good stuff. Tyvincent 5:29Okay. I, uh, it’s a long story, but some of the highlights, I guess I was born in Alaska in the early ’70s and grew up there kind of wandering around in the woods with my dogs with no one around all day long. It was amazing. You don’t get kids don’t get that experience anymore. So you kind of learn to be an independent thinker, I think, you know, because latchkey kid, parents weren’t home till 6 and you’re on your own from early. Dr. Deb Muth 5:49That was a great time, wasn’t it? Yeah. Tyvincent 5:51I mean, I have, I have 9 children now and none of them grew up like me. And despite my effort, I mean, I’d have to basically like helicopter them out in the woods and drop them off for a few hours for them to understand what independent kids today are so dependent and parents are so helicopter that, uh, it’s changed. Anyway, I, I grew up just really liking science and really loving science, a huge nerd. And, um, and, uh, when I went into college, when I wanted to be a marine biologist and I thought that that was my passion of the ocean wildlife and all that, and then halfway through college, personal Couple things made me change my mind. It was a girl, you know, the usual. And I decided to go to school in Anchorage instead of going I was, I was transferring to Hawaii and I was going to study marine biology. And then, uh, my girlfriend moved back to Alaska where we were from. And I decided to do that instead. And then they didn’t have a marine science program.So I decided I’ll just get a biology degree and go to medical school. I’m a smart guy. I can do that, but I had no awareness of medicine. I really didn’t have any, you know, the passion some people have to be a healer and to go help people wasn’t part of the calculus at all for me. I was kind of an Asperger’s kid, so that really wasn’t the way I thought, honestly. And then I went into medicine and I was really interested in the science, the biology, the biochemistry, all the stuff, the physiology. And before I started medical school, I was reading some Andrew Weil’s books and I was, I decided to get a book on nutritional biochemistry because I naively thought that’s what they were going to teach me, right? This is how you make people healthy. You figure out how it works and you give them the things that make their body work right. Yeah. And we all know that that’s. Not been true for over 100 years now since the Flexner Report. And, you know, the rich people steered the government towards pharmaceuticals. Dr. Deb Muth 7:26Yeah. Tyvincent 7:26But that was my interest. And when I went through the first 2 years of medical school, I just really devoured all of the basic science stuff. And that was what I thought was the most important. And I honestly mastered all that. I scored in the top 1% in the country on all the exams and everything. And it was the top, in the top of my class at the University of Washington. And then you start doing clinical medical training and you discover that they don’t use any of that knowledge anymore, really, unless it pertains directly to pharmaceuticals, and that pharmaceutical research is extremely narrow and reductionist, and they only want to try to prove one little effect, and it doesn’t translate to real health. So as I got into clinical work and started residency, you know, by the third year of residency, I was like, they didn’t really teach me how to help people with chronic illness. You know, I was, I went to family medicine residency, so I was delivering babies.I was assisting with surgeries. I was in the ER. I was doing colonoscopies. I actually did colonoscopies in practice after residency, which family Doctors almost never get to do, but I’m a small town in Alaska. So I managed my own ICU patients and did everything, literally circumcisions in the office. And you’re dealing with like hospice and end of life care, just both ends, right? Pregnancy to death. And so I’d realized that if I really wanted to do the job well, which was my goal, I needed to learn other things. And in my, in my third year of residency, I actually did the extra, like, like additional training in medical acupuncture that was put on by the Helms Medical Institute then with Joseph Helms.And that was great. And I had to learn Chinese medical theory and I learned, I did the extra module on Chinese herbal medicine. And it was wonderful because I had to open my mind to a completely different way to evaluate people and illness. And I thought, okay, well then there’s got to be more. And as I went, I just became this voracious consumer of broad medical knowledge, not conventional medicine. You notice how a lot of the conventional people call it traditional medicine? Dr. Deb Muth 9:07Yes. Tyvincent 9:07Which annoys the crap out of me because there’s nothing traditional about something that’s been around for 100 years. I mean, you need time, you need like an epoch to say something’s traditional. But they’re like, no, I’m like, and then we were considered alternative medicine minded and everything like, oh, well, Well, it’s an alternative to real medicine. The vernacular in our culture really dictates thinking, unfortunately. I went on to learn functional medicine. So like 2005, I did the acupuncture training. 2006, I found the IFM and I read their entire textbook in a few months. And I went to the trainings. I was like, okay, now I know what you guys have to teach me. And then I found a bioidentical hormone therapy training course that was like Jonathan Wright and Terry Hertog. Dr. Deb Muth 9:46Terry Hertog, yes. My favorite guys. Tyvincent 9:49They were great. Dr. Deb Muth 9:50Pioneers, right? Tyvincent 9:51Yeah, exactly. And, you know, I learned what their opinions were and all that. And then you don’t really learn how to use a tool or you don’t get really get facile with something until you are using it and you’re applying it to your patients. And I went beyond that. I learned all kinds of IV nutrition. I learned chelation therapy. I joined the Environmental Medicine Academy and I learned how to do various forms of immunotherapy, eventually leading to learning LDA, low dose allergy therapy, through them in 2008. And for those of you listeners who don’t know about low-dose allergy therapy, when you learn about it, basically it’s like homeopathic dilutions of antigens.But instead of single antigens, like if you go to that regular allergist, they’ll just prick test you, blood test you, whatever, and say, oh, you react to mold, you react to chicken, you react to your husband’s whatever. They don’t test for that. I sometimes do. And they’re very narrow-minded about it. And it’s like you just give the antigens that the person tested for and you’re always missing something. With LDA, you get these huge broad mixtures of antigens, like for foods, it’s just hundreds of foods compiled into one for environmental allergens. And the reason you can get away with it is that the dilution factor is so far out. There’s no physical interaction with the body and you can’t, there’s no risk of inducing allergy, right? Whereas conventional shots might be 1,000 to 1, 100 to 1 dilution. We’re out at like a billion to 1 or further in most of these. And it sounded like nonsense to me, right? Despite all of my training I’d already had and all these things and being open-minded, it still sounded ridiculous. Pointless, right?But at least I was willing to give it a try because I had patients in my clinic, my family medicine clinic in Alaska, that had horrific allergies. Just like kids with eczema from head to toe. They look like they’ve been set on fire. Half their hair wouldn’t grow out of their head. They’re just miserable. They won’t grow. They’re on steroids. And I just thought, if there’s if this has any chance of working for these kids, I’m going to give it a try. Plus, two of my kids at the time had eczema, like persistent eczema that was really annoying. And I kids with eczema is a near and dear thing to me now. I like, I get emotional treating these kids, but, but that’s because it’s miserable for the families. Right. So I took it hard and I started treating my kids and, and, uh, kids in my clinic with LDA and it worked like magic because magic is just science we haven’t figured out yet. Right. We just, you know, some, but it was undeniable that it was working incredibly well. And then I was like, well, what is going on here? How does this work? And you learn the whole history of it. It goes back to the 1950s. I’m like, but, but it’s still so limited. There’s so much more as you start to treat patients with every tool in your toolbox, you run into these walls occasionally where you’re like, okay, everything I’m doing now isn’t working. And this patient has some kind of chronic inflammation, which is a very general term.People go, I have inflammation. Yeah, yeah. What we all do every day, all the time. But they would have these chronic inflammatory disorders that really seem to be immune driven. And then I thought, well, in terms of understanding low-dose allergy therapy, if I can identify what the target antigen really is that’s underlying this patient’s condition, and I can restore tolerance to that, which is basically how LDA works, then you could resolve it. And so I set about experimenting with all kinds of autoimmune disorders. I mean, at the time, LDA and the predecessor therapy called EPD, they had a few bacterial antigens, and we knew that there were connections between like rheumatoid arthritis and the bacterium Proteus. So that was in one. Klebsiella was the target antigen for ankylosing spondylitis. I’m thinking, well then, what about all these other autoimmune disorders? So I started just treating people creatively and trying all kinds of different things. Luckily, I had a contact in Orange County who had a warehouse, like a biomedical sample warehouse, and he was willing to give me antigen mixtures almost anything you could imagine in the biomedical world.The first thing I had him put together was Candida. I found those of us in the medicine space realize that some people have this huge problem with Candida. The conventional medical world thinks, well, yeah, everybody’s got Candida. That’s not a thing unless it’s an infection, blah, blah, blah. But you see these patients that are super ill, persistently ill, and you give them antifungals because you think, okay, well, you have these red rashes and itching and constipation and fatigue and muscle pain, blah, blah, whatever. It sounds like a yeast problem. Some of them, interestingly, if you do stool analysis, they show no yeast on their stool, which is a clue to me with a different thinking process that the reason the yeast isn’t growing in their stool is their immune system must be attacking it and killing it off in the gut, right? Because who doesn’t carry Candida? So the, the tests that run those are the stool company the test the companies that run the stool test, they don’t flag that result as abnormal because, yay, good, you have no yeast. But it’s horribly abnormal, right? Like if you saw somebody with no, no ears, you’re like, that’s not right. And so I thought, well, maybe they’re immunologically hypersensitive Candida. And so I, I was able to purchase a mixture of Candida species. And it occurred to me that I should include Saccharomyces cerevisiae in there because baker’s yeast and brewer’s yeast, people become sensitive to that too.So I made this and some of the patients that I was seeing where I would put them on Diflucan and Nystatin and all their symptoms would just evaporate, right? But you try to stop the medications after a month or whatever, and within 48 to 72 hours, their symptoms are right back. And that was one of the things, another clue to me, like, well, then that’s not an infection. I mean, they’re not taking antibiotics. They’re not eating a ton of sugar. Why would this regrow? And one of my criticisms of our integrative medicine world is we have just as many fairy tales and dogmatic beliefs as the conventional medical world. They’re just more colorful. Dr. Deb Muth 14:59That is true. That is very true. Yeah. Tyvincent 15:01And people were saying, oh, well, it’s because Candida lurks and hides in these nooks and crannies and corners in your body. And I’m like, I’ve done colonoscopies for years. I don’t know what you’re talking about. Like, it’s sparkling clean in there after some Go Lightly or whatever you torture your patient with the day before a colonoscopy. I was like, well, that doesn’t make sense. And they’re like, well, it’s because Candida uses mercury as a weapon to fight off your immune system. I’m like, you’re anthropomorphizing this organism as if it had agency to make tools, right? It doesn’t make sense. So then I came up with this idea to desensitize people to Candida. And it was incredibly effective.These patients, when you find the right dilution, you know, and for those who don’t know, it’s just a couple of drops of water put under your tongue, taken out of a syringe from multiple different dilution steps of the mixture, whether they’re using, right? So these people would respond. Most things I’ve developed, people respond. Somewhere near a trillion to one mathematically. And it was incredible. And I was like, okay, this is something that I’m sure relates to other chronic illness problems. And I started experimenting with I had a couple of patients with inflammatory bowel disease, ulcerative colitis, both of them early on. That was 2009. And I was like, well, they didn’t respond to the yeast mixture. They didn’t respond to the food mixture. And I was like, well, they’re reacting to something.And presumably that something is living in their gut. Right? I now know people react to different bacteria. There’s a ton of different bacteria and other organisms in your stool. So I came up with the crazy idea after seeing Dr. Bill Ray at an environmental medicine meeting talk about what he called autologous vaccines. Dr. Deb Muth 16:29Right? Tyvincent 16:30And I want to be clear, the way a vaccine works is probably the total opposite of how LDA works. It’s not the same thing. You’re restoring tolerance with LDA, LDI, and you’re promoting a robust immune reaction to a target antigen with a vaccine. At least that’s the theory. And now I’m not. It’s true. But Dr. Ray was talking about that and I thought, well, that’s a cool idea. And I went up and I asked him like, how do you do this?How do you make these things? And he kind of gave me like a very brief, you know, brush off. He didn’t know me very well. He’s like, oh, you get these Millipore filters, these little things you put on a syringe and you can dilute something and pass it through into a vial and it’ll be a sterile solution and you can dilute it. I was like, oh, great. So I collected one of my ulcerative colitis patients’ stool who was having at the time like 12 bloody bowel movements per day, every day. He’d seen all the conventional gastroenterologists. He tried the different drugs. They weren’t working. He went to some really special integrative greater clinic in California that primarily dealt with gastrointestinal disorders, and he did everything they wanted him to do, and it also didn’t help.I did discover that he was sensitive to gluten, and when he went off gluten, his, his gut still didn’t improve. So I made this autologous stool, um, LDA I called it then, which now I change it to LDI because LDA is a proprietary term and it’s also very narrow in scope. And I gave him doses and looked like the second dilution maybe that I went through hit. Literally his, his diarrhea and bleeding stopped overnight. And by 3 days he was having completely normal stools and no pain, nothing. And that taught me a couple of things. One, this theory works, right? And two, you know, we talk about the concept of leaky gut in the alternative medicine world, like integrative medicine world, sorry, a lot.And I’m like, yeah, but that’s not a diagnosis. That’s a symptom. You know, you still figure out what’s causing inflammation. And people are like, I just have leaky gut. It’s chronic. And you know, what do you do? And what I found was if you just put the fire out, the house rebuilds itself. Health very quickly. You know, we know that the lining of the gut turns over extremely fast. That’s why it is one of the first things to go when you do chemotherapy. And these people were basically healed to normal within less than a week. Same thing with kids with eczema that had these horrible oozing, weeping skin patches. Dr. Deb Muth 18:25I would. Tyvincent 18:25Or psoriasis even. When I developed some things that would treat psoriasis later on, you, you give this person with just, you know, deforming sort of rashes the right antigen, within 3 to 5 days they have normal looking skin except for maybe residual depigmentation or scarring if but it just blew me away. Dr. Deb Muth 18:42That’s crazy. 3 Days. Tyvincent 18:44The key to solving these problems was to restore immunological tolerance for the thing that it had lost tolerance for. Dr. Deb Muth 18:50Right. Tyvincent 18:50And it just really made me think about everything we were taught about chronic illness and everything we’re taught about the immune system in a very different way. And so since 2009, I’ve developed I’ve continued to develop new mixtures for new things because I run into patients. I can treat so many more things now highly successfully than I could before, but there’s still always the failures. People would ask me over the years, you know, why did you pick up all these skill sets?Like I learned acupuncture and Chinese medicine. I learned bio I became a Reiki master even, because I’m like, well, energy is a thing too. And so I get into the energy medicine world and that also works. And especially if you add it to acupuncture, it’s a great combination. All this stuff. And I would still fail. And I, it occurred to me when people ask me the question, like, I’m driven by failure. I really don’t like it. And I said, uh, and I thought that was how everybody believed, you know what everybody thought, right? But then you when you study our conventional medical colleagues and a lot of our people in the integrative medicine world too, that are doing the same things, the same protocols.And I hate the word protocol because it’s a poor substitute for thinking, right? It’s so that you don’t have to think here, follow this list, but everybody’s so different. So I never developed a protocol for anything to this day. I don’t, that’s not what I do. I was like, despite all of this, their patients aren’t getting better either. And it’s like, well then, you know, just philosophically, which I was a big philosophy student in college too. I thought if, if what you’re doing doesn’t work, do something different, you know, make new mistakes, figure things out. And I just got really creative. And by now I have, my gosh, I have 100 different kinds of antigen mixtures. And to be very honest, half of them have never worked for anything because that’s how it works, right? You got to. Dr. Deb Muth 20:17You’re trying it. Geez. Yeah. Tyvincent 20:19You’ve got to be willing to be wrong if you ever want to be right. One of the things I’ve noticed about humans in general is they’re very unwilling to see when they’re wrong because it’s emotionally painful to let go of something that has maybe been a part of your self-identity or especially like when you get experts in a field and they’re famous for some theory or treatment or whatever they developed, even if evidence shows up later, which it inevitably does, to show that what they’re doing isn’t complete, maybe not wrong, but not complete, there’s huge resistance, right, to the change. Dr. Deb Muth 20:49No one will admit that there’s something that didn’t work initially when they thought it did. Tyvincent 20:54Right. And nobody wants to admit I’ve been doing something wrong or ineffective or less than it could be for 20 years. You know, that’s unsettling. But to me, I’m like, well, isn’t it worse to keep doing it wrong? Right? Dr. Deb Muth 21:06That’s the whole idea. Like, right? We’re supposed to be bettering ourselves. Medicine’s supposed to be adapting and changing, and we don’t. Like, there’s a lot of things that we still do the same way we did in the 1950s and ’60s. Cancer treatment is one of them, right? We don’t really do anything different than we did back then. And when you look at precision medicine, we have all these new tools, but people stay stuck in their way of doing things just because maybe it’s easier, they’re comfortable or whatever. It doesn’t always make it the best interest for the client. Tyvincent 21:36No. And that is the goal we all need to keep in mind. Dr. Deb Muth 21:38Yeah. Tyvincent 21:39What I thought was like the job is to fix the problem the person has. And if the tools you currently have don’t do that, you need to learn something else. Dr. Deb Muth 21:48Yeah. Tyvincent 21:48And eventually I got a little saturated with learning new things. Dr. Deb Muth 21:51I’ve been there. Tyvincent 21:54Turns out there’s a limit. You know, we use the term drinking from the fire hose for everybody who like comes, like conventionally trained doctors who first get into the integrative medicine world. You’re just like, what are you talking about? It’s all so foreign and new. And then you have to use it and realize, okay, there’s, there’s a lot of truth here. But I got to a point where it’s like, I just don’t have the time in my day to use every tool. Like I bought an Indigo machine. I don’t know if you’ve heard of it. So the old EAV technology from Germany long ago, electrodiagnostic things and Then they developed computer programs and software that could analyze 11,000 different frequencies. It’s all energy frequency based. And I bought one of these for like $25,000. I still have it in the case collecting dust because I just didn’t have time to learn how to use the tool. And I was like, all right, I got to just get really, really good at some things and then let my colleagues who are good at other things help people with the things I can’t treat and I’ll tell them where to go. You know, it’s a collective, it’s a team effort. Dr. Deb Muth 22:47Right. It’s got to be a team effort. I’m curious what you’re finding these days with the newfound for mass cell, right? MCAS, everybody’s problem child, and nobody has a good answer. And it’s, it’s an immune reaction, right? It’s not just that I’m allergic to everything situation. Back in the day, 20 years ago, you and I would have called these the chemically sensitive people, and now we at least understand what’s going on. It’s an immune reaction. But I’m curious what you’re finding with LDI and that population of people. Tyvincent 23:19It’s a really good question. I know, I know you’ve had other interviews where people have discussed it philosophically to start the conversation. I really have found over the years that a diagnosis is the least helpful thing you can give your patient. Dr. Deb Muth 23:31Agreed. Tyvincent 23:31But we love labels. We love names. And we, and the problem is when you give something a name that does not reflect what’s actually going on, it just leads everybody’s brain in the wrong direction. And so there’s nothing wrong with these people’s mast cells. And that’s why I’m like, I despise the term mast cell activation disorder, but It is okay that they may be the end of the line releasing histamine and whatever, but a lot of these people have tons of inflammatory symptoms that have nothing to do with histamine, right? There are lots of mechanisms in the immune system that can give you cell-mediated inflammation or humoral, like antibody-mediated inflammation, different things. And mast cells are kind of an IgE thing, but it’s way more complicated than that.And when you work with these people, because a lot of them have found me because they have a very difficult time finding answers and solutions. I’ve been at most of us in this field have been at the bottom of a funnel where the options decrease because you try more and more therapies and they don’t work and the desperation increases kind of inversely proportionally. And then they’re trying weirder and weirder things that like people think are bizarre, you know, like you can eventually sting yourself with 20 bees a day, do apitherapy or something. Dr. Deb Muth 24:36I remember that therapy. And you know, as a practitioner too, it becomes more and more frustrating because it’s like, I’m trying all these things and nothing is working. What am I missing? And you keep trying different things until they just give up on you or you give up on them or whatever ends up happening, you know. Tyvincent 24:52Right. But again, like philosophically, every failure should lead you a step closer to success. Dr. Deb Muth 24:58Yeah. Tyvincent 24:58If you can look at it and you can learn from it what is possible from it and go, okay, I got to do this different or change this, or perhaps my entire theory about this problem is just dead wrong. Yeah. So if what I think is happening isn’t what’s happening, what else could be happening? And then you, you know, you come up with a theory and then you have to devise a way to test test it. And so like a lot of people probably tossed around theories about things being immune related or whatever over the years because it becomes a little obvious at a certain point, but they didn’t have a tool to test the theory.So that was the, the unique position I found myself in from 2009 onward was I’ve got a way to test this if I can figure out what antigen to try. And so I got a lot of mast cell people with that diagnosis. And, you know, my assessment of the problem is that when they come into my office, because like you and like most of people that are kind made it a little further in the integrative medicine world. The patients that find you have already seen 20 of your colleagues at the Mayo Clinic and the Cleveland Clinic and Germany, like Mexico, whatever. They’ve had exosomes infused up their nose or whatever. Like, all right, so what has not been explored yet? And you got to realize, okay, these, these people are there’s something going on. It’s very inflammatory. It’s probably immune related, but where is it coming from? Again, you mentioned root cause. You’ve got to trace the steps backward and try to figure out where is the point of intervention that will actually work and that’s feasible. And so what I found in these people, most of them have a pretty common early story of having had one or a few immune reactions that first began the process. And they might’ve been fairly benign and not that big of a deal.And then they go through some kind of immunological stress, whether it’s, well, some kind of stress, whether it’s a direct immune stress, like a vaccination or an infection or something like that. Like with COVID I’ve had an equal number of people who developed chronic immunological disorders after having the virus infection or having the vaccine. And the things that develop are virtually identical. So people are like, I should be gotten the vaccine. I’m like, it really doesn’t make any difference. Dr. Deb Muth 26:53Right. And I’ve seen the same thing with the HPV vaccine too. Like a lot of young people, they get that and all of a sudden their whole system is torn off after that. It’s very common. Tyvincent 27:03Except in that example, just getting HPV doesn’t do it. It’s the vaccine that does it. Dr. Deb Muth 27:07Vaccine that does it. Yes, exactly. Tyvincent 27:10Because everybody’s got HPV, you know, some other, and that is not in and of itself enough of an inflammatory trigger to lead to these chronic illness, right? You can lead to cancer, sure. Which is focal and it’s not a hypersensitivity problem. It’s a failure of immune defense problem. It’s a little different. So I would get these people and I’m like, okay, what happened first? What’s the beginning of the story? Because if you talk to them about how they’re feeling today, and a lot of your listeners, this will resonate with them. If I ask you how you’re doing today, the real cause of your problem is buried under a snowstorm of constant inflammation and your life experience is utter hell. And you have no clue what’s really triggering anything anymore. It’s like at a certain point, the immune system has developed PTSD, right? It’s just, it’s hypervigilant. Anything you give these people to take, even like vitamin C or whatever, then they go, ah, it made me worse.Ah, it made me worse. Because their immune system is now seeing anything foreign as an invader, as an enemy. So if you ask people just about how they’re doing today, you get absolutely nowhere. With these people. The one theory I had though was, well, maybe they’re reacting to histamine itself. Okay. I think is a beautiful theory. Makes total sense. Didn’t work at all. Spoiler alert. It’s not that it doesn’t work. It’s easy to get a sample of histamine, you know, and I also, I also got histidine, the amino acid from which it’s derived. I’ll say I’ll just put them together. So at least I want to say 12 years ago, I made like a histamine histidine LDI and everyone who had kind of the mast cell picture portfolio of illnesses, I would try it on. It has to this day, it’s never worked for anybody that I’ve tried it on. And I haven’t had another LDI practitioner tell me that it did. But again, that failure made me think about it in a different way. And so the success I’ve had with that population is not monolithic. It’s not one part. From an LDI perspective, figuring out what it is that they began to react to first, like, did you still have, do you have food problems originally?Oh yeah, I was kind of sensitive to gluten, but I just ate it anyway because I would just get some diarrhea and some, okay, it it was, it was livable, right? But they just keep exposing themselves to this trigger. And eventually something snaps in their immune system. Like they live in a moldy dorm room for 6 months and that all of that immune activation will kick off whole new immune response problems. And the world of mold is another area where I think people don’t, do not really understand what’s going on. And a lot of our treatment approaches don’t work for a large portion of these people. And it has to be kind of thought of in a broader sense. They could go through a divorce. They could have a car accident. They could have a surgery. A woman could have a baby, which is one of the biggest immunological triggers, unfortunately, is having a baby or early pregnancy miscarriage even is enough to do. Emotionally stressful. It’s physically stressful. It’s immunologically stressful.And then it swings your estrogen back up and you get this hypersensitive profile. But so all of these, what I call catalytic events were common in these people. And it’s not just one, it’s any one of them. And what I found was if I could identify what their initial triggers were categorically, right? Environmental things, chemical things, food. And if I could desensitize them to those, everything would settle down. And, and that was, that’s been the key to working with those people. But they want to tell you how horrible their life is today. Dr. Deb Muth 30:17Yeah. Tyvincent 30:17And you got to listen to that because you need the connection. You need to understand what they’re dealing with. You need to understand what their baseline is so that you can compare going forward. But the answers, the solutions aren’t in that story. And the solutions are in the history. And like, what’s the first thing you remember? And all this, like, okay, well, let’s go with foods. Let’s go with chemicals, whatever. And if somebody has distinctly worst triggers, right? Because right now they react kind of to everything. Any foods that you absolutely don’t eat because they give you the absolute worst reaction pattern, right? Oh yeah, I can’t eat these things. They’re the worst. Okay, well, maybe we’ll start with those and you can use those foods as your test exposures to determine if the dose works each time. So that’s one of the things I’ve developed stylistically over the years is the use of a test exposure if we’re using an allergen extract so that you can confirm or deny whether the therapy worked, right? Because people will tell you, oh, I feel better.Turns out that’s not worth much. You really need like, I mean, And belief is a huge part of that. Placebo effect is a huge part of that. You want to find something relatively objective, you know, so will you still vomit when you have chicken? You know, cause that’s like, that’s pretty obvious. And then go with that, you know, or do you still get a rash when you put on a bandaid? I love it when people get rashes from contact cause they can show me pictures and it’s not subjective, turns out. But even those reactions can go away 100% with placebo doses. It’s fascinating how people respond to placebos. So anyway, I try to find like the root beginning allergens. And then a lot of these people also accumulate other target antigens as they go through their process of being ill. Their immune system is so upset and it’s, it’s also just blurry vision, right? It attacks anything. Angry dog on a chain. If you get close enough, it’ll bite you. It doesn’t care who you are. And that’s how their immune systems get.So finding the antigens that are root cause is key. But a lot of these people have developed over time total adrenal burnout. Out, right? Because they’re in state of chronic inflammation, everything. So I also found that I had to lean on my skill in bioidentical hormone therapy, which over all the years I’ve been in integrative medicine, the two major skill areas that gave me the best results in general were hormonal management and immunological modulation. I got so many of the prior failures I was able to solve with those two things. And so if I would support these people’s adrenal, like hormones, you know, DHEA, cortisol, to optimal levels, a lot of them, their symptoms would cut by half, number one. And you would have a little more clarity as to what their actual triggers were.So in a lot of these cases, I learned to start with that before I even decided what antigens to pick. You can kind of get the snowstorm to calm down. You can start to find the snowmen in the blizzard that you couldn’t see before with all the chaos. I was like, okay, now that you’re feeling better most of the time, you can tell that these chemicals bother you, that mold exposure bothers you, that whatever, and then you can target things But the other third kind of leg of the tripod that I found are the keys to success with our most complex patients is to address like the hormonal issue, the immunological issue, but the subconscious fear response, the subconscious stress response in them. Dr. Deb Muth 33:14Trauma. Tyvincent 33:15And I saw that you’ve also people, yeah, trauma and people have medical trauma, not just trauma from their illness itself, but trauma from seeing 12 doctors that treated them like they were a head case and ignored what’s going on. Dr. Deb Muth 33:25Of the medical community, right? Tyvincent 33:27Oh God, you know, like people— yeah, the more doctors you see, the more your trust in doctors goes down. Dr. Deb Muth 33:34Yes, exactly. Tyvincent 33:35They see one of us and some of them just automatically are like, whatever, here’s another failure coming my way, kind of thing, you know, realistic. Partly because it becomes too risky to have hope, right? Like after a while you’ve had hope, hope, and it’s been dashed, and you just can only handle that so many times. It’s like you fall in love and then they dump W. And after a while you’re like, I’m celibate. I don’t care anymore. Um, so you get these people and what we have found, my wife and I started doing psychedelic-assisted therapy with patients a few years back. In fact, this little cottage on my property we built specifically for that purpose. People can come and stay here for a couple of days.There’s a bedroom on the other side of this wall. And we do therapy with them. We have a very good process of getting their hormones tested before they come, trying to correct any deficiencies or imbalances, especially cortisol and DHEA. We try to make sure that if they have immune problems that seem manageable, we maybe try to control those first. But in a lot of these people, we have to get their subconscious fire alarm to go off first because anything new that enters into their sphere of existence is seen as this, you know, scary thing. Dr. Deb Muth 34:36Yeah. Tyvincent 34:36And so what we found is getting their subconscious to settle down, getting them to integrate past whatever trauma they’ve had so that it’s no longer causing harm today from an experience 20 years ago, right? Because that’s not fair. A lot of these people, all of their immune stuff stops and I don’t even have to do LDI. And that’s fascinating. And some of them, we put them on hormone replacement, everything calms down enough. It’s like one of these things sometimes works. And in other people, they need all three. And the trick in those people is to figure out what thread you have to pull on first. You know, it’s like, well, okay. And we spend a lot of time, my wife and I both work with patients together. She’s amazing. She’s not a trained clinical clinician. You know, she had a business degree, but she’s like, she tells people I attended the school of Dr. Ty Vincent for 10 years. Dr. Deb Muth 35:20Yes. Tyvincent 35:21Heard him say all this a million times. And when we first started seeing patients from home together, she read all of my patient notes and just great. So she. Dr. Deb Muth 35:28Yeah, that’s how you learn. Tyvincent 35:30Yeah. And people like, well, I didn’t go she’s like, I didn’t go to medical school. I’m like, that’s an asset, trust me. Dr. Deb Muth (35:34-35:40)Exactly. Oh my God, you haven’t been brainwashed. Exactly. Tyvincent 35:40And you know, it’s not even so much washing as it is like throwing mud all over the walls. All of these false beliefs you’re given, and, you know, not just the beliefs, but the disbeliefs, both of those hold people back. And I was like, it’s your disbeliefs that are the bigger problem because you don’t even realize they’re there. Like when I learned about LDA, I’m like, that’s nonsense. No, it’s not. Dr. Deb Muth 36:02I’m curious, when you treat some of these complex people with LDI, are you using multiple modalities at one time, or are you being really cautious with them and using one at a time? Time, because some of them won’t let you do more than one thing at a time with them. Tyvincent 36:16And so by modalities, you mean like, are we also doing hormone therapy? Are they also doing like IV, like other things? Or you mean multiple antigens within? Dr. Deb Muth 36:24Multiple antigens, yeah. Tyvincent 36:25Um, it really depends. And early on, so I everything I know about LDI, I learned through experience, paying attention, putting connecting dots over you. And it’s been been a very long process, right? Early on, like a kid in a candy store, you see a patient and you find out, oh, they’re allergic to some foods, they’re allergic to some chemicals, they’re allergic to cats and birch tree pollen, and they also have psoriasis or whatever. And you’re like, ooh, I’m going to give you all 4 of these antigen mixtures because you have all 4 of these issues. And by 6 months in, if you’re paying attention, you are completely confused and lost. Dr. Deb Muth 37:03Yeah. Tyvincent 37:04I did that for a number of years and I thought, well, this will be the fastest way to figure things out. It turns out it’s not, unfortunately. Um, what I’ve found is more successful is if I can figure out either what the most important underlying immune reaction is for them that might be cascading into other problems, or you figure out what’s the easiest one to solve first. So if somebody has like the whole mast cell picture and they got all this stuff going on, but they say the biggest thing is I have horrible chemical reactions. I’m a tr I’m trapped in my home. I created an oasis of safety here, but I can’t go anywhere. Anyone who comes to my house has to go into the entryway and take all their clothes off and put on a jumpsuit, right? There are those people. I work with them. Dr. Deb Muth 37:40Oh yeah, I have those clients. Tyvincent 37:42They’re like, oh my God. Well, if we can fix that first, your world will open up a ton. Your fear will come down. Your immune response will come down. And so sometimes it’s a matter of which one seems the most important or which one seems easiest. Like, okay, the test exposures that they have are the most obvious and distinct. For foods and not chemicals or whatever. And the reactions people have to these different antigens can overlap tremendously or even look exactly the same, which is why you kind of need to use one at a time. Because if you’re trying to ride a bike and a motorcycle at the same time, it doesn’t go so well. Dr. Deb Muth 38:16Yeah. Tyvincent 38:16Like, let’s find where you do with where you respond to this one, and then we will have less stuff to deal with. We might have a little bit more clarity as to what you’re reacting to in other categories. And then you kind of go through them sequentially. But if I have somebody who’s not like just in a real state of immunological distress like that, and they go, yeah, I’m allergic to cats and I have a cat because I’ll never get rid of my cat. I don’t understand those people, but, but there are a lot of them. They love their cats. Dr. Deb Muth 38:43A lot of them. Yes. Tyvincent 38:44I’m like, okay, or dog, you know, I’ve had people that are horribly allergic to dogs and the dog still sleeps in bed with them every night. Dr. Deb Muth 38:50Okay. Tyvincent 38:51Um, they’ve got that, that’s very clear, very distinct. And it’s, and it’s like a rash or a runny nose. And then they also have have celiac disease, let’s say. Like, well, we can treat both of those at the same time because the symptoms are totally different. You have test exposures in both categories and you’re not so sick that you’re in a constant state of like trauma response where you can’t even pay attention to anything. Right. And so it’s kind of case by case. And my style is very, very individualized. Like I said, there’s never a protocol. It’s like, I got to talk to people for about I usually talk to people for about an hour. Yeah. More than isn’t really helpful. You know, like, in an hour of time, you’re, you’re kind of saturated with how much you can invest your bandwidth into this particular issue. Now, like, okay, I know where we’re going to start. I don’t know where we’re going to end up, but I know where we’re going to start. And so we encapsulate that and then go, let’s do this. And then everything you do teaches you more about what else you need to do.And it’s a process. I my ego used to be more tied to guessing correctly at the beginning about what was going to work work and to fixing things quickly. And over time I realized like your ego really has no place in the exam room. Like that is a very, very challenging thing for practitioners to try to figure out is how to get your ego out of this because it biases you intellectually, emotionally, and it’s a problem. And our medical colleagues probably have bigger egos than the average human in the population. Let’s be honest. Um, there’s something that comes with the years of study and the investment and the status you have, and it’s a challenge. But if you be like, I just need to be clear about what’s happening, what’s not happening, and you figure things out. And so I was able to have a much better success rate approaching things that way.And every time you put out one little fire for people, one kind of immune response, it, you, you get a better picture about what else is going on. And then eventually all their problems have stopped and you’re okay, cool. I guess we’re done. But it’s, it’s hard. And you do learn that there are still major gaps in your knowledge. And, and you asked earlier about new developments in LDI. And whatnot. And I could literally talk all day about the things that I’ve developed over the years, but I still keep making new antigens. So just last year in the area of food allergy, so like your Mast Cell people, a lot of them have food allergies that are a big part of the underlying problem, and this will be relevant to them. But what I found is a lot of the people who seem to clearly react to food, and I put food in quotes because most of what Americans eat isn’t food, right? It’s it’s at least it’s not just food, or it used to be food and now it’s not. It’s like Frankenfood, and it’s got chemicals in it. It has molecules that don’t exist in nature, so you can react to them.So I found some of these people that would say, oh, I react to processed food items horribly, but if I eat the whole foods, organic whole foods at home, I don’t react. And, um, some of those people will resolve those problems with the chemical LD mixture. So they’re reacting to chem with that. A lot of them will tell you, oh, I also react to perfume. Or gasoline or whatever. Dr. Deb Muth 41:46Yeah. Tyvincent 41:46Okay. And so you can use that and some of those cases will resolve, but a lot of them don’t. And I had increasing failures. Like I’ve been doing this long enough to see and observe that early on I had much better success with these antigen mixtures than over time. People are the pattern and the causes and the manifestations of illness today are evolving right before our eyes because of what we’ve done to our environment and our food and ourselves. So what I came to to sort of theorize about was that maybe some of these people are reacting to processed cooking oils, like seed oils, plant oils that are put into processed foods, right? Because they would tell me a couple of key cases gave me that insight. They would say, well, I still react to all these processed foods.I can’t eat at restaurants, and I’m still reacting horribly to sesame seeds, or I’m still reacting horribly to flax, or I’m still reacting horribly to, like, one of these other things we make processed seed oils from. Well, maybe they’re reacting to the oils. And when we made the food mixture, you use whole food samples, right? So you use like a, a ses like sesame seeds, or I use tahini paste because it’s easier to mix in water. But maybe the antigen, the target antigen, is something inside that that is not properly like, what’s the word I’m looking for properly given to the immune system, or, or like exposed, shown to the immune system, right, in the way that their immune system is reacting to it. Maybe it’s a molecule in there that when you use a whole food antigen is not adequately represented. It’s like, so an oil would do that.And I had actually already years ago realized that some people react to essential oils, like flower extracts or tea tree oil or lavender or whatever. Right. And so I made an essential oils mixture from plant oils from the doTERRA and the Young Living products. I had a couple of patients that were like distributors for these things. And I said, just take an empty vial and put one drop of every single product you have in it and just mail it to me. And they both did that. So I have this huge compendium of essential oils, and I would get people that would still react to oranges and lemons and citrus fruits despite the food mixture. And then the essential oils mixture would totally stop that reaction. So I’d already kind of proven that this was the case with some of those more aromatic oils, right? Now I was like, well, people are reacting to the processed cooking oils because when you take oils out of the plant, if you ever do this at home, they’re opaque and gooey and viscous. And then somehow it’s this really pretty homogeneous, clear liquid that doesn’t separate at all. It has no nothing you see in there.And then you got to wonder, how the hell did they do that? What did they do to make that? And there are all these chemical processes and heat and everything. I’m like, well, it just makes new molecules that your immune system has never seen before. So in May of 2025, I bought 18 different kinds of plant oils, and some of them are really pure, like carrot seed oil, cottonseed oil. But there’s peanut oil and avocado oil and olive oil and, you know, all the seeds and things we use in there. And I even have a video on our Facebook page and probably Instagram of me making this mixture in my kitchen.I was like, people are kind of interested how this works. And I just made it right there on camera because it’s really simple. I started using it in some of my failure cases that had really seemed like they had food allergy responses, but the food mixture didn’t work. And the first one was actually one of our employees who does our social media management. She had a 3-year-old son, I think, probably 2 years old when we started working with him, with really bad body-wide eczema, right? And he never really responded to the food mixture, essential oils, skin bacteria, skin fungi, yeast. I tried all the things that usually work. I’m like, it’s something. And so he made the oil mixture. He was they were the first one. I just sent the doses like, hey, let’s check it out. And I think he got for I started 6C for most things, which is a truly and then it’s like 5.5C, 5C. We got to 3.5C, I think, is where he is, which is a dilution of of 10 million to 1, I believe. And 95% of his eczema just completely went away. Dr. Deb Muth 45:38Wow. Tyvincent 45:39The only thing left was a couple of those patches on his feet. And one of the things I learned about people with eczema is they will have localized, like geographically local consistent reactions to different things. This is crazy, right? Dr. Deb Muth 45:53Yeah. Tyvincent 45:53Your immune system has kind of a, you know, like an overall regulatory system, but it also has regionalized systems, just like the government federal government, state government, county government, city government. It’s, it’s divided like that. So the people will eventually learn, oh, if I eat gluten, I get these itchy bumps on the side of my hand, and if I eat carrots, I get a rash on top of my head, you know. And it’s very, very clear once you identify it. So there’s still something that kid’s reacting to that I haven’t quite solved on his feet. But, um, yeah, that worked amazingly, and it actually made me cry when I got the pictures She’s like, oh, finally, after probably a year and a half of flailing, you know, we got it right. And so now I’ve been using the cooking oils mixture more and more and more. Just yesterday I got an email. I have a teenager, he’s 8, he’s maybe 18, 17, 18, with just really horrible cystic acne, painful, erupting. And the before pictures are just hard to look. I mean, he’s got horrible involvement of both sides of the face, the chest, all over his back, and you can just see the scarring and the redness and the inflammation.And we went through the food mixture with him and whatnot, and it really didn’t touch it. So yesterday I got the report. He got up to the cooking oil mixture at 2.5C, which is 10,000, 100,000 to 1, and, and his cystic acne stopped. Like, he’s getting zero new lesions. All the redness, pain, inflammation is gone, but he still has all this just scarring from it because that’s permanent, right? You have to get that repurposed. And all he has left is little tiny whitehead pimples, like maybe one new one per day here and there. You can see them now in the midst of all this. So acne is diversified. There are different kinds of acne and people can have more than one type and they can react to hormones. They can react like I’ve had guys with bad acne respond to desensitization with testosterone, for example, or women desensitizing them to estrogen or progesterone and the acne will go away sometimes. Some people respond to yeast, some people respond to skin bacteria, skin fungi. And so this is another thing. And my wife actually is one of the more complicated immunological cases I’ve ever had to work with. Working together for 10 years, um, you know, like the first time I saw her, she had Lyme disease and the Lyme LDI just totally stopped those symptoms like magic, which is great.That’s one of my favorite things to treat. Um, because the beliefs we have about Lyme disease, I have found completely untrue because using a different tool. I’m like, oh, it’s an immune problem, not an infection. So anyway, so that, that worked for her. Some of her food reactions went away, but she still continued to get like deep painful cysts if she would have nuts or dairy. And so the cooking oil mixture now, after 10 years of being together, totally stopped those reactions. Peanuts, nuts, dairy. And the dairy one is interesting to me because it’s not a plant oil, right? It’s an animal oil and it’s not represented. And we have dairy products in our other mixture. But I think what’s happening is when cows are fed grain, sometimes what an animal is eating carries through some essence or nature of that substance into the milk. Um, and the thing I’ve seen this the most clearly with is corn. Corn allergy is a very unique situation. The way people deal with it, the way it manifests, the way you have to treat it is different from every other energy. And I don’t have an hour to talk about that specifically, but I observed primarily with corn that anywhere along the food chain, you’ll still react to that food if the animal at the beginning was ever fed corn. Multiple I’ll have babies that get an eczema reaction or a GI reaction if mom eats corn-fed beef. But if mom eats grass-fed beef and then nurses the baby, they’re fine. Dr. Deb Muth 49:33Yeah, I’ve seen that too. Tyvincent 49:34It’s bizarre. Dr. Deb Muth 49:35Yeah. Tied. This has been really so amazing. Um, tell us how people can find you if, if this is resonating with them and they’re like, I need him to figure out the puzzle for me. How do they find you? Tyvincent 49:49So the best thing to do is to go to our website. Our, our business name is Global Immunotherapy, and the website is just http://www.globalimmunotherapy.com. We have, we have a much better website than we did years ago. People schedule directly through the website. Right? There’s all kinds of information. I’ve been making YouTube videos and informational videos for people for more than a decade now because nobody has any idea what I’m talking about. The more they understand it beforehand, one, they get to decide if they just think I’m crazy, right? And they don’t want to waste their time. And there are plenty of those people, but a lot end up talking to me 3 years later because after they’ve tried everybody else and there’s nothing left to try, right? Yeah, yeah, like being at the bottom of the desperation funnel. Yeah, people like, well, I heard about you 5 years ago and didn’t make sense. I’m like, yeah, cool. But then I had 3 or 4 other people over the years tell me I should talk to you. So here I am. That’s, that’s right. And people can watch all these educational instructional videos about how LDI works, what it can be used for. So the more you learn and understand what you’re getting into ahead of time, the less time we have to spend during our hour trying to explain to you the therapy., which to take up half the time and better results you’re going to get because you’re educated and it’s a partnership.Like all of us in the world of integrative medicine, one of the big differences between us and conventional medicine is we understand that it’s a partnership. You have to listen to the patient, you have to educate the patient, you have to engage them in their own health. You can’t just say, here, take this pill and come back in 3 months and I’ll check your labs again to see that you still have the same illness. It’s just and people have a lot of our population has been led to believe that just swallowing a pill is going to fix your problems. But That doesn’t work. And we have to develop a relationship and an understanding and shared knowledge and beliefs. And so people now, they have this opportunity to watch all the videos. And I really want people to do that before they ever schedule, because one, you’ll, you’ll feel like it’s the right therapy for you. And that helps a lot. Having optimism going in is super helpful. And then two, you already know a lot. So you’ll know more about what questions I might ask you and how to answer them. You’ll know more about about how the therapy works, and I won’t have to explain it to you, and we’ll get a better use of our time. And then people can schedule right through the website with either myself or my wife Jeanette. And anybody who Jeanette talks to, she reviews every case with me, and we work together with stuff. And, but in terms of like using LDI, she’s probably the second or third best practitioner in the world. I

Some of our soldiers from the Revolutionary War are still fighting including George Washington. He was even seen during the Civil War by a union commander.We may have rehashed some old personal tales or gone down a rabbit hole or 2.Tonights beverage is a canned cocktail; the classic Jack Daniels & Coke. I found it in a can and said why not? Makes it easier on me.

Some of our soldiers from the Revolutionary War are still fighting including George Washington. He was even seen during the Civil War by a union commander.We may have rehashed some old personal tales or gone down a rabbit hole or 2.Tonights beverage is a canned cocktail; the classic Jack Daniels & Coke. I found it in a can and said why not? Makes it easier on me.

Unlocking billions in cloud marketplace revenue. Subscribe to our Newsletter: https://theultimatepartner.com/ebook-subscribe/ Check Out UPX: https://theultimatepartner.com/experience/ This powerful panel discussion featuring leaders from Google, Tackle, and dbt Labs dives deep into the explosive growth of cloud marketplaces and the radical shift toward AI-driven go-to-market strategies. With hyperscaler backlogs nearing half a trillion dollars, the conversation unpacks how top-tier organizations are transforming their compensation models, aligning executive buy-in, and navigating the complexities of co-selling to capture committed customer budgets. From the rise of AI agents acting as metered SaaS to the essential operational investments required to scale marketplace revenue from 10% to over 50%, this session provides an actionable roadmap for software companies ready to dominate the 2026 partner ecosystem. https://youtu.be/LSj49f5FEII Key Takeaways Hyperscaler backlog commitments represent a massive, nearly half-trillion-dollar addressable market that completely changes the budgeting conversation. Successful marketplace selling requires complete executive alignment, right down to the CFO, and strategic adjustments like spiffing sales teams for marketplace transactions. The AI category is experiencing staggering 18x year-over-year growth, forcing companies to pivot toward an “agent-first” go-to-market model. Shifting from traditional channels to cloud go-to-market demands a multi-year, intentional investment in operations, people, and technology. System integrators are evolving into software companies as they build orchestration agents to manage fragmented, end-to-end workflows. Leveraging cloud commitments bypasses standard 12-15 month budget cycles, allowing for significantly faster deal closures and larger initial lands. If you're ready to lead through change, elevate your business, and achieve extraordinary outcomes through the power of partnership—this is your community. At Ultimate Partner® we want leaders like you to join us in the Ultimate Partner Experience – where transformation begins. Key Tags: Google Cloud Marketplace, hyperscaler backlog, cloud commitments, co-selling strategies, AI agents, metered SaaS, product-led growth, rev ops, B2B sales transformation, ecosystem shift, channel strategy, system integrators, Deal registration, private offer APIs, digital transformation, software procurement. Transcript: Insight to Revenue- The State of Cloud GTM [00:00:00] Dai Vu: These are all things everyone has to do to get to that first five to 10 deals, and then 10, 20, 30% of your business through Marketplace. [00:00:09] Vince Menzione: You can feel it happening. The ecosystem is shifting beneath us, the way Hyperscalers are partnering, how AI is remaking the channel and what it means to win in 2026. [00:00:21] Vince Menzione: Welcome to the Ultimate Partner Podcast. I’m Vince Menzi, own your host, and each week I sit down with leaders at the intersection of technology. Partnerships and outcomes. The voices shaping how ecosystems actually work. We talk about what’s real, what’s changing, and what it takes to lead in this era where the partner channel isn’t just part of the strategy. [00:00:43] Vince Menzione: It is the strategy because being in the room changes [00:00:46] John Janke: everything. Let’s start. [00:00:52] Vince Menzione: And we have an incredible session. The way that we wanted today to, to, to start the day up was like, let’s talk about what’s happening right now and let’s get three leaders in this space to come up and talk about the world and how it’s a rapidly evolving. So I want to invite to the stage dvu from Google is a great friend of Ultimate Partner. [00:01:14] Vince Menzione: Are you guys ready? Are you guys micd up already? Okay, good. Good. John Yanke, the CEO and Founder of Tackle, and Sean Todo, who is an incredible leader with DBT, but also an old friend of mine. We worked together on Microsoft Days. Good to see you gentlemen. Thanks Sean. Great to have you with us. [00:01:37] John Janke: They stuck me on the side ’cause they said I’d block the screen if I sat in the middle. [00:01:41] Shawn Toldo: You still block it a little bit. [00:01:42] John Janke: And that picture’s from like 1985. I, I, we do have to get that. I had way darker hair. It was, uh, 10 year, 10 years at a startup. Makes you turn white. [00:01:52] Shawn Toldo: Mine’s the exact same right now. So it’s all good. [00:01:55] Shawn Toldo: Mine’s AI generated. Yeah. [00:01:57] Vince Menzione: Well, you know, guys, I just took it all off at that point, you know, it’s like good. Yeah, but you lose enough of it. You pull it out over the years. Yeah. So, uh, some really exciting times. Uh, you, we gotta spend some time at you at our breakfast. That’s right. A couple weeks ago. [00:02:13] Dai Vu: A lot of folks here, too. [00:02:14] Vince Menzione: A lot of folks that are here were at that breakfast, and I thought we’d spend a few moments with you talking about all the exciting things that have been happening at, at Google. I mean the, yeah, the businesses just to, first of all, the numbers were house. Outstanding. Congratulations. [00:02:28] Dai Vu: That’s right. [00:02:28] Vince Menzione: Yep. [00:02:28] Vince Menzione: Really, some really great numbers. Commitments are off the charts. [00:02:32] Dai Vu: Yes. [00:02:32] Vince Menzione: Crazy off the charts. [00:02:33] Dai Vu: Yes. [00:02:34] Vince Menzione: Yes. Uh, and then there’s a lot happening in this little world called ai, which makes a ton of sense. Yep. I was critical about Google in the beginning because you had all the assets, but Microsoft leaned in first. [00:02:45] Vince Menzione: Uh, but now it’s like things have evolved, uh, quite a bit since those first days. Absolutely. In, in November of 2022. So, uh, take us through a little bit. Let’s, let’s go through [00:02:56] Dai Vu: it. Yeah. I could talk for quite a bit of time because obviously we came out next, yeah. At the end of April, and then we had our earnings announced, but shortly thereafter. [00:03:03] Dai Vu: But, but real quick on next, uh, for folks who attended, uh, you know, the way they framed, uh, the discussion was they showed this AI integrated stack, and that’s how they frame the keynote because we position ourselves as being the only vendor that provides this. Fully integrated stack from custom silicon all the way to the apps and agents. [00:03:23] Dai Vu: And a lot of the announcements were, were focused in those areas. Um, uh, I won’t go through the, the long list, but I think the big ones coming out of next were, uh, certainly the eighth generation TPU we announced, so we actually split this into two specialized chips for training and inference. Uh, so that’s, uh, that was a big piece. [00:03:41] Dai Vu: Uh, but the big one that we announced was this, uh, Gemini Enterprise. Uh, agent platform. So think of it as the comprehensive platform for companies to basically build scale, govern and optimize their agents. And of course, once they have that, they can bring that into, uh, what we call a Gen Gemini enterprise app, which is really the front door for AI for. [00:04:03] Dai Vu: All customers and all employees to manage a mix of agents, um, as part of their daily workflow. And, uh, and a big part of it is, you know, certainly they’ll have some custom agents, but we think a lot of the agents will come from the ecosystem. And obviously there was a big announcement around what we’re doing there. [00:04:21] Dai Vu: Um, and in fact, one of the things that’s interesting is this shows the evolution of, of marketplace in our, in our partnership, which is we’ve taken a lot of the marketplace experience. And brought it into Gemini exp uh, Gemini Enterprise app, right? So search, discovery, uh, the ability to invoke agents, uh, in context. [00:04:39] Dai Vu: I think that’s gonna be very powerful as we think about the evolution, uh, of, of go to market. And then the last thing maybe I’ll highlight is this, um, is. 750 million, uh, investment fund that we’re gonna drive with the broad partnership. So this cuts across all partner types, global system integrators, uh, uh, you know, AI, pure plays, uh, ISVs, uh, the big management consultants as well, uh, because we recognize that partners are gonna be critical to drive business transformation with our end customers. [00:05:08] Dai Vu: So we’re investing around things like. Technical enablement, access to our product teams, access to our FDE for deployment engineers, and then a lot of incentives to drive usage and deployment. So, um, so a lot of, a lot of activity and obviously the ecosystem’s gonna be very critical for us to drive that impact’s. [00:05:25] Dai Vu: Fine. And the last thing, I know we’ve going on and on fine, but the last thing I’ll just mention is just on the earnings announcement, uh, Vince touched on the backlog, so people have been tracking Yeah. Two quarters ago. We were 155 billion on the backlog, and then a quarter later we were 240 billion. And then in the last quarter, just recently, 462 billion. [00:05:46] Dai Vu: So obviously that’s a, a massive signal of customer intent, but more importantly, it’s a, it’s, it’s a addressable market for this ecosystem to go after as well. [00:05:54] Vince Menzione: Yeah. Almost a half a trillion dollars. Yes. In commitment. So a lot, a lot of reason why we should be on the marketplace. [00:06:01] Dai Vu: Absolutely. Absolutely. [00:06:02] Vince Menzione: Um, each of these gentlemen have some things to talk about as well, about their companies and the exciting things that have been happening. [00:06:08] Vince Menzione: I’m gonna start, John, I’m gonna start with you because Tackle has, has transformed quite a bit since the last time you were on stage with us. I thought maybe introduce the company. Take us through the transformation and then we’re gonna do the same thing with Sean with his organization. [00:06:21] John Janke: Yeah. Thanks. Uh, thanks Vince. [00:06:23] John Janke: Great to see everybody. Uh, John Yanke, GM of Tackle at App Direct. So the big news there is Tackle was acquired in Q4 by a company called App Direct, and I think the why behind this app, direct Powers, marketplaces, they run 400 marketplaces around the world for telcos, for ISVs, for system integrators, channel partners. [00:06:42] John Janke: And we were talk like, when you build a marketplace and diagnose this, stocking the shelves is actually really hard. Uh, and we were talking to them about how could we connect the dots between the hyperscaler marketplaces, the iscs we support, and these additional routes to market. Uh, and that became more strategic and we ended up joining forces in December. [00:07:00] John Janke: And since then, the other part that’s really hard when you build a marketplace is how do you generate demand? Uh, so four weeks ago we acquired a company called Partner Stack. And Partner Stack does affiliate content. They have an affiliate content platform that allows you to connect with 150,000 content providers to be able to start to tell your story to drive leads to. [00:07:23] John Janke: Marketplace. So we think there is a tremendous opportunity to continue. We’re in the earliest days. I think the, you know, Jay, I was with Jay at Channel Partners a few weeks ago and he is like, we under called it, he didn’t say this on stage yesterday, but he is like, uh, the 82% growth. He’s like, we totally under called it. [00:07:40] John Janke: Uh, and I think just listening to dies commit level increase mm-hmm. Reinforces the fact that we’ve under called it. But I also think we’re at this tipping point in the market where all of the new capabilities coming out, we have to all rethink our better together stories. So I think the challenge to all partner leaders, it’s like, how do we. [00:07:58] John Janke: Figure that out. So it’s, it’s a, it’s a fun time. As we transform the way we worked. We wrote the first helping people kind of list, launch and sell through the marketplaces. And now to be able to take that to the next level to hopefully unlock the next a hundred billion of marketplace throughput. [00:08:13] Vince Menzione: And are we at a hundred billion? [00:08:15] Vince Menzione: ’cause that was the number, right? [00:08:16] John Janke: I mean that’s, that’s, that’s the number that’s talked about. I mean, we’re seeing the data signals we see, I mean, we will process 20 billion plus this year. Uh, and that number’s growing faster than Jay’s stated number. So I think we’re excited to see where this year lands. [00:08:30] Vince Menzione: We’ve come a long way from three years ago and we all got on stage and talked about marketplaces together. Right. It’s been, it’s been amazing. And then Sean, let’s talk about DBT. You’ve had some excitement. I know some things maybe we can’t even talk about yet on stage. [00:08:43] Shawn Toldo: Uh, yeah, go ahead. [00:08:44] Vince Menzione: No, I was saying I, I could, I’ll pre-announce things, but No, I’m just, uh, tell, tell us about DBT for those who don’t know in the room, sure. [00:08:49] Vince Menzione: Mean Yeah, that might help. [00:08:51] Shawn Toldo: So, uh, Sean Todo, I lead the partner business at DBT. I’ve been here about 18 months. Um, DBT really started as an open source tool. That help data engineers be successful in SQL transformation with cloud data warehouses? Right. And so back even to the Redshift days now into what I would call more the BigQuery, snowflake, Databricks fabric led days, um, DBT is the tool of choice amongst the data engineering community in terms of how they wanna drive SQL transformation. [00:09:21] Shawn Toldo: And so more recently, we kind of jumped into this kind of paid world. Which is why we needed to bring in additional experience leadership around go to market product, sales, et cetera. And so when I walked in the door, one of the things I noticed really quickly was we were running on AWS, which was great. [00:09:40] Shawn Toldo: We were doing some AWS marketplace stuff. We were running on Azure in Europe only. And one of my first strategies was we have to be everywhere, right customer. We have to meet customers where they are. And so we, uh, made some major investments to be on Google Cloud platform to then be able to really take advantage of marketplace, to then really be able to take advantage of the co-sell opportunities that exist in the field from a day, day-to-day AI perspective with Google. [00:10:07] Shawn Toldo: And it has been a hell of a ride. We launched on, uh, Google Marketplace in July of last year. We went to Google next and we were Google Partner of the Year. Wow. For data and analytics in a very rapid way. We’re now in three, uh, data centers around the, the world. So we’re here in the us, we’re in Frankfurt, we’re in uh, uh, UK as well. [00:10:30] Shawn Toldo: And so it’s been a pleasure to work with D and the broader team. Because the enablement we’ve had and the support we’ve had from that group has really helped our growth be up and to the right. The data point I would give is that when I walked in the door, we were 10% of our business from an A RR perspective was transacting through marketplace. [00:10:48] Shawn Toldo: Last quarter we cracked 40%. Whoa. We will be at north of 50, uh, next quarter. [00:10:53] Dai Vu: Wow. [00:10:54] Shawn Toldo: The other piece that Vince was talking about is we’re getting ready to merge with a company called Five Tran. And so there will be a new company name at some point down the road. Uh, pay attention on June 1st for a public announcement around that merger. [00:11:06] Shawn Toldo: Uh, but we’re really looking forward to what we’re gonna be able to do with folks like DI and the Google team as well as others in the ecosystem. Um, ’cause I think in this data world that we’ve played for so long. This trusted foundational element of data and what it’s gonna mean to context in the AI world. [00:11:23] Shawn Toldo: We’re in a very interesting place to really continue our growth rate at a high level. [00:11:28] John Janke: Yeah, that maybe just a comment something there. Start there. I think we, we used to hear people say we wanted to be strategic with cloud, go to market and get to say 10 or 20% of revenue. I think this like 40, 50%. Yeah. Th that’s where people are setting the bar these days. [00:11:43] John Janke: Yeah. So the numbers are getting really crazy. Yeah. Uh, and people are showing up and being like, I have to go big. Mm-hmm. So a huge change over the last few years. [00:11:52] Vince Menzione: Yep. What’s the experience you’re seeing as well? I mean, it, it was a huge amount of buzz at next. [00:11:57] Dai Vu: Yeah. I mean, so interestingly, um, you know, typically when, when people get started on the, on the marketplace in Cosal journey, I always try to caution them and say, this is, uh, this is like a multi-year. [00:12:07] Dai Vu: Yeah. Uh, process. You have to be very intentional. You have to invest. It’s not gonna be a thing where you just list and, and, and, and, and, and sort of this channel opens up. So in some ways, Sean is describing an acceleration that is not common, right? Uh, so they’ve done, we’ve done some amazing things together and we hope to keep that acceleration going. [00:12:22] Vince Menzione: What does that require, by the way? Is it engineering resource? I mean, there’s, I talk about executive commitment and maniacal focus. Yeah. But it’s all those things, right? [00:12:29] Shawn Toldo: Well, all of it. But we went to a QBR in Austin, and I put up a slide and I said, we have to do this. And everybody in our ETE agreed. So when you have a chief financial officer that’s bought into the partner business. [00:12:43] Shawn Toldo: Yeah. And I guess qualifying coming into this role at this company, I qualified the C-level staff. Uh, like are they really serious about partner or not? And it’s one of the reasons I took the role. So I think executive commitment was one thing. I think the second thing is we were really well supported, um, by the Google team across the board, right? [00:13:02] Shawn Toldo: Yeah. So folks, Indy’s team that we would work with regularly on, these are the things you need to do to have an effective marketplace offering. Here’s what you need to do operationally with folks like John and team and others that are in the market, right? That helped us a ton to be able to scale. And then the other thing that we did is we changed comp. [00:13:20] Shawn Toldo: So from our VP of sales levels down, we have a 5% kicker for everything that goes through marketplace. [00:13:26] Vince Menzione: Hear [00:13:26] Shawn Toldo: that everyone. So as soon as we incented the sales team, I love that, right? We, we created the foundation on the partner side, but then from top down on the sales side, they were all in. And as a result of that, the question would become, okay, which marketplace stage two sales cycle are we gonna go use? [00:13:42] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:13:43] Shawn Toldo: Who’s the right partner to go partner with? And then my team is reaching out to make sure that co-sell connection happens. [00:13:48] Vince Menzione: That is such a best practice, Sean, to, because there is, as a seller out in the field and we talk about, you talk to John, talks about rev ops all the time. But getting rev ops eng getting the field engaged in the right way. [00:14:01] Vince Menzione: ’cause it feels like it’s more work for them. ’cause they have to think, they have to have more conversations with their customer about their cloud commitments and things like that. Mm-hmm. And then getting them incentive to do the right things. The right behavior. [00:14:12] John Janke: Yeah. It’s a strategy process. People, technology problem. [00:14:17] John Janke: Yeah. It’s not just some flip API automation, go list something if you don’t like that top down view. I think the other thing. Like there’s a, there’s a theme in startups where VCs fund second time founders. I think Sean and team have done this before and they took a lot of learnings over the years and reapplied them, which I think helps them go faster. [00:14:36] John Janke: It’s like that second time. Yeah. Second time cloud go to market Founder theme. [00:14:41] Vince Menzione: Yeah. Yeah. Um, so we could talk about the platform and all the changes there on the. The, the commitments and everything. Mm-hmm. Uh, what separates ISPs generating real incremental revenue on your, in your marketplace? What, what do you see? [00:14:58] Dai Vu: Yeah, so I mean, I, I think there are a couple things. Number one is, uh, the, the foundation has to be, uh, this better together story, uh, with Google Cloud. Um, so this idea that what, you know, what do you bring, what does the Google platform bring and how does that drive impact with customers? And I think this is the reason why Sean and DBT Labs has been very effective. [00:15:16] Dai Vu: ’cause our field recognized they, they can recognize that better together story and communicate it to their customers. So I think that’s the foundation. For everything. Right. And I think as you get started, uh, you know, we do tell partners that they probably need to lean in a little bit, uh, in terms of focus, uh, you know, pick a vertical, a customer segment, um, you know, a geography where they’re particularly strong and, you know, get that momentum going. [00:15:39] Dai Vu: And once you do that, the field knows about it and starts to pull you into deals. Um, so I think that’s the other big opportunity. And then the other thing I just mentioned. Which, uh, the panel already touched on, which is be very intentional around all the things you need to do to invest. Whether it’s like, uh, you know, the business functional alignment, uh, the policies around like, uh, pricing and, and comp, uh, making sure you have the operational capabilities. [00:16:02] Dai Vu: These are all things everyone has to do to get to that. First five to 10 deals, and then 10, 20, 30% of your business through marketplace. And not to, not to top you Sean, but our very top partners are driving 80 to 90% of their business on marketplace. And in fact, some of these partners are actually only marketplace first, uh, uh, because they started out that way. [00:16:21] Dai Vu: Obviously it’s the bigger challenge if you have an existing channel, you’re trying to shift that. But, uh, the aspiration to be more marketplace focus, uh, is up there. [00:16:28] Shawn Toldo: So I just set a new goal for the business plan for me. So that’s exciting. I love it. Looking forward to seeing you in six months on that. [00:16:35] Shawn Toldo: It’s good. [00:16:36] Vince Menzione: I love [00:16:37] Dai Vu: it. Work together on that. [00:16:38] Vince Menzione: Well, di I’m just gonna add, add this because I, I got to see operationally with some of the things you do. Mm-hmm. You, you have an overlay organization. [00:16:45] Dai Vu: Yes. Yes. [00:16:46] Vince Menzione: And so you put accelerants in place within your own organization Yeah. To drive the ISVs into the, into the lines of business. [00:16:54] Vince Menzione: Right. You have, you, you do some of that to accelerate. [00:16:57] Dai Vu: Yeah, I mean, I think, I think this is somewhat unique. I don’t, I don’t wanna speak to the other [00:17:00] Shawn Toldo: hyperscalers, [00:17:01] Dai Vu: but we do have, um, uh, you gotta know the field roles, right? [00:17:04] Shawn Toldo: Yeah. So [00:17:04] Dai Vu: obviously at Google Cloud in the regions, we have, uh, ISV sales specialists who are effectively quoted on marketplace revenue, right? [00:17:12] Dai Vu: So they’re a hundred percent focused on that. And, uh, in addition to that, uh, we also have these, uh, co-sell teams, partner teams where, you know, opportunistically if there’s an opportunity, uh, in a, in a, in a particular area. This team is responsible for connecting the regional sales leadership, uh, the regional, uh, sales teams with, with the partner on the opportunity. [00:17:32] Dai Vu: So there’s a lot of things we’re doing to sort of accelerate that. And of course, the foundation for all this is, you know, our, our, you know, registering deals. And as you definitely get started on that, it’s very important to be very mindful around when you register deals. Uh, be very clear around what the ask and the engagement is with the field reps. [00:17:51] Dai Vu: But once you have that going and get the right rhythm, it becomes sort of a natural way to sort of register all your deals and get that engagement. And then, um, and then maybe the last thing I would say is it isn’t always the sales specialists. It’s, you know, the FSR, our field sales rep as well as our customer engineers are also very motivated. [00:18:08] Dai Vu: To work, uh, with, uh, with our partners because they know that this, you know, whether it be solution completeness or it’s part of a bigger workload or helps unlock greenfield opportunity, they really are motivated to engage with the partners. [00:18:21] Vince Menzione: Nice. [00:18:22] Shawn Toldo: Yeah. I’ll just add, I’ll just add to that statement too. I think, um, it’s one thing to have a story as it relates to. [00:18:30] Shawn Toldo: Google Cloud and what you do with marketplace. It’s another thing to have a story in terms of how you impact data and analytics in our world. And there’s a set of specialist sellers inside of Google mm-hmm. That really care about us because we drive a lot faster consumption of big query. And our ability to tell that story across the world effectively has really created a pull now. [00:18:54] Shawn Toldo: And so I, I would say it’s almost, you know, back to, you know, being 12 years at Microsoft and watching kind of that. Phase and how that went. As we went to the cloud and we picked specialty areas, um, Google is doing that as well and they’re doing it extremely fast in a very, very productive way with partners. [00:19:12] Shawn Toldo: And so, you know, I’ll get comments from like Levi who runs west in north region for us, and he’s a, he was at Google next and he was like, I, I gotta, I, I just gotta go to bed. I’m tired. Like we wore him out over two days with their sales team and gave him a host of follow ups and actions related to specific sales areas as well as specific accounts. [00:19:34] Shawn Toldo: And I think that’s the other thing that, um, Google’s done a good job of, but we’ve pushed and we’ve had to work really hard to earn that seat at the table. To help make those people successful from a comp perspective inside of Google as well. [00:19:45] John Janke: Yeah, and this is a huge failure zone for partners with the clouds because they think enablement’s a one and done thing. [00:19:51] John Janke: Like I did a training for the field and I told them the better together story. That doesn’t work. Like you have to literally. Have consistency around this message every day. Oftentimes you need experts who can partner with your reps to give them the confidence. ’cause they may be able to ask the first line question, but someone asks a follow up and they fold up ’cause they know your product. [00:20:11] John Janke: That’s right. They don’s don’t understand all of the nuances of Google and the clouds and the questions that may come back. But if you do that well, it is a huge unlock. [00:20:20] Vince Menzione: Talk about the coaching you provided on the tackle side of that as well and kind of helping. Through this maturity model? [00:20:26] John Janke: Yeah. I mean we, we, over the years, I mean we started as a pure SaaS company and over the years our customers would consistently ask us for more help and we would struggle to figure out how to do that, and we had to invest in services and we actually acquired a company. [00:20:42] John Janke: Five years ago now, that was the foundation. Aaron Feiger, who’s in the room. The core consulting was the foundation of our services business. And that continues to evolve with us. And you know, we see customers at scale saying, I wanna operate my cloud, go-to market really consistently, and I want you to do all the backend operations so my teams can be outselling our products, selling the better together value with Google and others, and not have to figure out how to run the machinery. [00:21:09] John Janke: So we’ve invested a lot there. We have services around strategy, like how to help people think about their business strategy and translate it into a better together story and able to get executive buy-in. And then we have coaching, which is really a phone, a friend, because I think these things get complicated. [00:21:24] John Janke: And I had a customer who was doing the largest deal in their company history. It was the end of the quarter and it was Friday, and they’re like, this is going to be the most complex transaction we’ve ever done and we have no idea how to do it. Our team gets on the phone with them, they work through, what are you selling? [00:21:40] John Janke: How are you selling it? Is your listing set up the right way? Can we actually create all the offers? In a way you have confidence to execute. ’cause those are failure modes. You try to build a cloud, go to market business, and you mess up the largest deal in the company. On the last day of the quarter, uh, that’s something you can’t recover from. [00:21:55] John Janke: So we try to really wrap support around our customers to help them have the confidence to grow. [00:22:02] Vince Menzione: Di you’ve seen tremendous growth in marketplace. Mm-hmm. We don’t publish the numbers specifically. Yeah. We kind of try to figure it out on the back end, but [00:22:09] Dai Vu: Yep. [00:22:09] Vince Menzione: I know you’re accelerated. Your, your marketplace numbers are astounding. [00:22:13] Dai Vu: Yes. I can share some numbers, if that’s [00:22:15] Vince Menzione: okay. Please. Yeah, let’s go. [00:22:18] Dai Vu: So, um. I would say that for a few years now, we’ve been talking about growth. So we’ve been consistently, uh, you know, north of a hundred percent year over year growth. Uh, for the last few years we’ve been processing, uh, what I say, uh, billions of dollars, uh, annually and, uh, uh, millions of transactions. [00:22:36] Dai Vu: And again, that’s for a few years now. Now for 24 to 25, that full year we also doubled. Wow. Uh, which is, uh, which is amazing when you think about the scale in which we operate. But more importantly, if you look at specific category areas, right? So, you know, historically, marketplace has always cater to, uh, those solution pillars that are tied to cloud migrations, like, uh, like security and data and analytics. [00:22:59] Dai Vu: And those continue to be very strong areas for us. But the biggest growth area is, uh, is in the areas of business app. So obviously, you know, the, the ServiceNow workday, uh, Salesforce of the world, as well as the AI category. So one number that we threw out next was 18 x. Year over year growth for the AI category. [00:23:17] Dai Vu: Wow. So in one year now, a lot of it is models, right? So foundational models with our, with our ecosystem. But a lot of that is around agents. So this whole agent go to market model is gonna be, continue to grow and it’s gonna be a huge focus area for, for the coming years. [00:23:32] Vince Menzione: Fantastic. Yeah. Fantastic growth. [00:23:34] Shawn Toldo: Yeah, and, and I’ll add, Diane and I talked about this at Google next. This is a. Very complex thing for DBT, where today we sell seats. [00:23:42] Vince Menzione: Mm-hmm. Yeah. [00:23:43] Shawn Toldo: To data engineers. [00:23:44] Yeah. [00:23:44] Shawn Toldo: And now we have all these agentic things that are hitting our engine. And di and I are talking and we’re like, okay, so how does this work in an ag agentic marketplace? [00:23:54] Shawn Toldo: Yeah. Kind of a scenario. And what should we build? Where should we play it? ’cause we’re gonna spin the meter in a different way, so to speak. [00:24:01] Dai Vu: Yep. [00:24:01] Shawn Toldo: And so candidly, we got stuff to figure out related to that. Um, I think what’s been fascinating for DBT is our partner ecosystem changed overnight. So now it’s like I talked to x.ai on Monday. [00:24:15] Shawn Toldo: Mm-hmm. We got time with open AI on Thursday and we have a call with Anthropic and our, uh, CEO and co-founder and uh, chief Product Officer next week. [00:24:26] Vince Menzione: Mm. [00:24:27] Shawn Toldo: We don’t have anybody managing those partners. [00:24:29] Vince Menzione: Right. [00:24:30] Shawn Toldo: Today our focus is on managing the large, uh, hyperscalers plus Snowflake and, uh, Databricks. [00:24:36] Vince Menzione: Mm-hmm. [00:24:36] Shawn Toldo: And then the SI ecosystem and some tech partners. So we’re having to like, to your point on Agile yesterday. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Like we’re having to change our strategy, operating model and organizational model to support that. And candidly, we don’t have all the answers yet, so we have a lot of things to figure out fast, which is a little bit scary. [00:24:54] Shawn Toldo: And challenging, but it’s also a huge opportunity we have to kind of embrace and get into. Yeah. [00:24:59] Vince Menzione: And they’re figuring out as well. ’cause they’re, they’re new to partnering as well. Yeah. As organizations [00:25:03] John Janke: and these AI agents. I think to demystify for a lot of people, and what Sean said is totally right. [00:25:08] John Janke: They’re disrupting everyone’s business model. But in reality from a marketplace standpoint, they’re metered SaaS. This is a thing that’s existed for a long time. Yeah. They look like product-led growth products. There is a lot of patterns around how product-led growth products work in marketplace. Mm-hmm. [00:25:24] John Janke: But you have to bring your business strategy, your product and pricing strategy to those two categories. Metered SaaS and product-led growth. Put that all together to get cross-functional alignment. So we are seeing like. A lot of people get tripped up here and it really does go back to more of the company strategy, product strategy questions, and a lot of partner leaders are not in the room for those conversations. [00:25:48] John Janke: So I think at, at this point in time, as you see big pivots with the partners to go all in on agents, you have to go elevate. Those discussions to be like, what is our plan here? ’cause I, I mean, pricing and packaging will be the thing that trips almost everyone up. [00:26:02] Dai Vu: If I could, if I just build on what John John mentioned, um, so I do agree. [00:26:06] Dai Vu: P it looks a lot like POG, but, uh, but the difference I think is POG has. More historically been in like the data and developer space, now it’s like the general business user, right? So this idea that you want a business user to be able to search and discover, um, agents that could actually be part of their like everyday workflow is going to be very critical. [00:26:26] Dai Vu: And uh, you know, I do think that when we think about the ecosystem building agents. Uh, you know, a lot of the ISV partners aren’t necessarily gonna own end-to-end workflows, right? They’ll, they’ll have a very specific, uh, domain and scope area, but you have to enable yourself to be orchestrated and managed by, you know, orchestration agents or, or, or meta agents that are gonna span end, end workflows. [00:26:49] Dai Vu: And sometimes that includes system integrators and, and others who can stitch that, that automation. So I think, I think that’s, that’s one piece of it. But the other area that I think is gonna be different is, um. There’s going to be a lot of agents. I mean, literally you’re gonna have a very fragmented set of, uh, uh, of players, right? [00:27:07] Dai Vu: It’s not just gonna be the incumbents, it’s gonna be a lot of disruptors and, and, and, and startups. And so the, uh, for the incumbents in the room, it is a mandate that you need to, to innovate because if you do not identify and go to like an agent first, go to market model. Uh, you’re gonna be, you know, disintermediated. [00:27:25] Dai Vu: Somebody’s gonna go build an agent that’s going to leverage you as a dumb database. Um, and they’re gonna own the workflow. So you have to, you have to push the, the, the, the limits here. And I think it’s creates a big opportunity for everyone in this room. [00:27:39] John Janke: I’m going off script. I’m curious. Let’s do it. I’m curious on your take on the system integrators. [00:27:44] John Janke: ’cause I think this, this puts like they’re all, a lot of them are creating agents for people and I think that’s turning them almost more into software companies than they’ve ever been. [00:27:53] Dai Vu: They are, and I think they’re, you know, obviously they’re being, uh, impacted from like, you know, typical like, you know, SOW you know, time and materials type type business models. [00:28:02] Dai Vu: But I do think they play a big role because a lot of the system integrators are bringing, um, you know, vertical and business process expertise. And, um, like I said, I said before, a lot of the ISVs are not gonna necessarily have big enough scope in their area to own end-to-end workflows. And that’s really the promise of agents, right? [00:28:20] Dai Vu: You really need. This cognitive, you know, reasoning, planning, executing across end to end workflows. And I think, you know, the system integrators are gonna bring that capability either, either through, you know, these custom, uh, orchestration or meta agents or if they’re able to productize that and bring that to a model, they can also sort of go through the marketplace model as well. [00:28:41] Dai Vu: So who knows is how it’s gonna evolve. But you know, we’ve always been talking about. Marketplace being a broader opportunity for all partner business models. And I think that will extend to not only, uh, you know, traditional sort of, uh, sell and services partners, but also some of these system integrators as well. [00:28:58] Shawn Toldo: If I could comment on that, please. Yeah. I, I was in London two weeks ago and we did an SI partner day. Mm-hmm. We had 25 sis in a room, probably about 50 people. We had no, um, hyperscalers or cloud data warehouse providers. And when we started talking about open data infrastructure. The role that they can play. [00:29:17] Vince Menzione: Mm-hmm. [00:29:18] Shawn Toldo: Cross platform in a cost efficient manner for customers and the advisory orientation of that. They all leaned in and we, we stopped talking and they started talking. [00:29:28] Vince Menzione: Right. [00:29:28] Shawn Toldo: So they’re all facing this kind of same problem, which is actually causing a little bit of a shift, I think, in how they think about, I’m a Databricks partner. [00:29:38] Shawn Toldo: Uh, you sure you wanna do that? [00:29:39] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:29:40] Shawn Toldo: So this, this whole thing that’s kind of evolved in the last six to 12 months, when you kind of pick one horse to ride, I, I would tell you be cautious about what that means. You may pick a horse to lead with mm-hmm. But you’re gonna have to flank yourself a bit in terms of other providers that can help you be successful with that, that that partner you’re gonna roll with. [00:30:00] Vince Menzione: So you’re suggesting data vendor agnostic. [00:30:04] Shawn Toldo: I’m suggesting you really have to think about your strategy. Yeah. Because I think the AI, AI disruption is gonna make you think about that strategy. [00:30:13] John Janke: Yeah, I mean there’s, someone mentioned anthropics First Partner Summit. I was not there, but I’ve heard from a bunch of people were there. [00:30:20] John Janke: You know, they had a hundred partners in the room. 95 of them were system integrators. Five were technology companies, the three Clouds, Databricks and Snowflake. Like if you just think about the, the one of the major disruptors in ai, ISVs, were not in the mix. So I, I think, are they trying to disrupt all of us? [00:30:40] John Janke: Uh, do they need us? And they haven’t figured out how to work with us. I, I think. It’s, it’s, [00:30:44] Vince Menzione: and I’ve heard they only have five people in their partner organization, so I just, it’s, [00:30:49] Shawn Toldo: it’s 11 now, but it’s 11, [00:30:51] Vince Menzione: so it was five [00:30:51] Shawn Toldo: last growing fast in the, in the new company I have 50. So like, to put it in perspective, they have to make some pretty big priority. [00:30:59] John Janke: Yeah. And everyone’s been there a hot second, [00:31:00] Vince Menzione: like, right, exactly. Yeah, they, well, we will talk about the learnings we’ve had over the years, getting to where they need to get to. It’s exciting times. We got a lot to talk about here. Um, I, you know, we have about 15 minutes. I I, I want to kind of gauge, ’cause we could talk, we, we have a few things we could talk about, I could ask about, but I want to see if there’s an, like, an interest in opening up to the room for questions. [00:31:25] Vince Menzione: ’cause I feel like we’ve got a very interesting group here. [00:31:28] Shawn Toldo: You got a hand here? [00:31:29] Vince Menzione: Uh, are there hands that wanna Yeah, there’s some people that wanna ask some questions. So Yeah. We have a mic? Yeah, [00:31:37] Dai Vu: we have [00:31:37] Shawn Toldo: a mic. We, [00:31:37] Vince Menzione: we [00:31:38] Shawn Toldo: got one here. [00:31:38] Vince Menzione: We got one here. One here. Thank you. Sorry we went off script, but [00:31:44] Shawn Toldo: that’s fine. [00:31:45] Vince Menzione: It’s fine. [00:31:45] Dai Vu: Off [00:31:45] Vince Menzione: script. Better is good. [00:31:46] Shawn Toldo: I’m sure you planted the questions outta anyway. It’s okay. We [00:31:48] Vince Menzione: did, we did. [00:31:55] Audience Guest: Okay. All Eva, Sean Lightner, quick question to your, uh, increase on the marketplace, and you said you spiff the salespeople by fifth percent. 5%. Mm-hmm. So, and that obviously drives a very large adoption of, uh, marketplace transactions. How are you accounting for the margin you’re losing on, uh, you know, going through the marketplace? [00:32:14] Audience Guest: And also have you done analysis? I’m sure you have, how much is, uh, shape shifting or shifting from existing versus incremental? [00:32:22] Shawn Toldo: Yeah, it’s a great question. Um, um, lemme make three points. Number one, the backlog statement makes the margin statement not matter. So do you wanna play in that space where a customer’s already bought or not? [00:32:36] Shawn Toldo: Yeah. Or do you wanna force a budget conversation that you have to drive on your own in a direct model? That to me, I think it was 484 4 62 [00:32:43] Dai Vu: 4 6 [00:32:44] Shawn Toldo: 2. [00:32:44] Vince Menzione: That’s new Tam available to you? [00:32:46] Shawn Toldo: Yeah. That, that’s just with one. Right. And we are, we are, uh, running on four marketplaces. So that just increases our tam and makes our, our sellers lives easier. [00:32:55] Shawn Toldo: So on that piece, yes, there’s an expense, but we believe it’s right for growth. So there’s a balance there. Um, I think the, and then the second part of your question again. Sorry, [00:33:05] Vince Menzione: shapeshift. [00:33:05] Shawn Toldo: Oh, shift. We, we actually don’t think we would’ve won the business. So if I go back to our Q4 and I can probably point to three or four deals that went, um, Google Marketplace, we would not have won those deals because we couldn’t have created the budget cycle and that quarter. [00:33:23] Shawn Toldo: To make it happen. Generally a budget cycle is gonna take anywhere from 12 to 15 months. Bingo. Because of the spend that was available to us, we were able to close it in that quarter, and we had the largest Q4 in company history. [00:33:35] Vince Menzione: That is such an important point. I’m sorry. [00:33:37] Dai Vu: Okay. [00:33:38] Vince Menzione: But I, I just wanna, that is such an important point of the budget cycle. [00:33:42] Dai Vu: Yeah. [00:33:43] Vince Menzione: Being a year to a year and a half versus being able to tap into a commitment that’s already been made. Yeah, so I just emphasize that [00:33:51] Dai Vu: I was, I was just gonna add real quick, even, even when we see sort of a, uh, a channel shift renewal, which is, you know, it’s on partner paper and it moves to marketplace as part of the renewals, we do consistently see that the, uh, renewal rates on marketplace and the incremental a CB on the expansion and new opportunities tend to be better when it’s on the platform marketplace than than offline. [00:34:12] Dai Vu: And that’s why partners choose to continue to drive renewals on marketplace at a reduced to rev share. But uh, because they see that that growth, [00:34:20] John Janke: we, we, sorry. [00:34:22] Shawn Toldo: We see that as well. Yeah. And I would also make the statement on our land business, when we go through marketplace, we are two x higher across marketplaces. [00:34:30] Shawn Toldo: We’re three x higher with them. [00:34:32] John Janke: Yeah, I think separate new from renewals and then instrument deeply. [00:34:37] Shawn Toldo: Yeah, [00:34:38] John Janke: go proactively talk to your CFO and your head of rev ops to understand their mindset. Because I was with a billion dollar seller a couple weeks ago, their CFO still creates friction in the process, even though they’re selling a billion dollars through these channels. [00:34:52] John Janke: But when they broke it down, their deals are three times bigger. They do them faster. They use more components of the product, which I thought was a really cool one. So customers who buy this platform, many component platforms through a marketplace, end up using six components of the product. Versus a normal land customer who uses two increases gross in net retention. [00:35:12] John Janke: So you have to get to the point where you have the data and you can tell that story real really clearly to your finance team to get support ’cause that they will trip you up if you don’t get them on board. [00:35:23] Vince Menzione: And you’re saying there’s friction in that company. I’m just kind of curious ’cause a billion dollar company. [00:35:27] John Janke: There’s a billion dollar marketplace seller [00:35:29] Vince Menzione: market marketplace company. That’s what I meant. Yeah. But, but the fact that this, their CFO friction, like, is it, is it because they’re not doing a good enough job or? [00:35:37] John Janke: Uh, in, of educating, I, the root of the question is from this person is, would they win without it? [00:35:44] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:35:45] Shawn Toldo: Oh, and is it worth the three points? [00:35:46] John Janke: Right. It’s, it is And, and I think some pe like to me, it’s the cheapest channel in the world. Yeah. Like with committed budget and people to support you winning. Like the, that formula, the math is so simple. [00:35:57] Shawn Toldo: Yeah. For, for a company of our size to go to like the classic resell ecosystem, I gotta walk in with 30 points. [00:36:02] John Janke: Yeah. [00:36:03] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:36:03] Shawn Toldo: It, it’s an illogical conversation. Outside of public sector and growth, you know, geos around the world. And so I, I’ve been lucky to have a CFO that I haven’t had that challenge with, at least at DBTI should say. [00:36:19] Vince Menzione: Really great insights. I think we have, we have another hand up here. [00:36:28] Audience Guest: Yeah. Thanks Susan. The question is for Dai. Uh, my name is Latif Hamani. I’m the founder of Partner System ai. Um, so what we’ve done is we’ve built a, a co-sell AI agent mm-hmm. That your partners can use to Yeah. Reduce all the friction in the co-sell with you. Uh, the questions that I have is, I guess I should back up, so XAWS Madison with a very large alliances, and then I worked, went on the other side. [00:36:55] Audience Guest: For software companies, and even though I had an operational team, I was spending two to three hours on on the keyboard, right? Mm-hmm. Deal registration, emails that can’t be automated, et cetera. So the question that I have for you is, I’d love for you to validate that. You know, unless you are one of the big companies, one of the big enterprises, if you go to the lower end of the enterprise or the mid market, uh, would you validate that there is a challenge? [00:37:20] Audience Guest: There’s a lot of friction for a smaller company. Mm-hmm. Uh, ’cause these marketplaces are complex. Yeah. The cosell is complex. Uh, that there’s an opportunity to really break down that friction with some automation and ai. [00:37:33] Dai Vu: Yeah, absolutely. So, um, we have already been, uh, part of the journey to remove some of the, uh, the friction as part of that selling and purchasing journey. [00:37:43] Dai Vu: Uh. We’re not quite there yet. But, uh, we’ve done things like we have, uh, you know, private offer APIs. We, uh, we have co-sell, uh, registration automation. Um, you know, we have tools like, uh, propensity to buy, tooling to help, uh, partners do, uh, more targeted efforts. Um, but the a i piece is still coming. Um, so I think, uh, the idea here is that we have launched a number of agents as part of our, um. [00:38:08] Dai Vu: Uh, part of our, uh, Google Cloud Partner network, partner hub. Uh, so these are, uh, agents that are gonna do a bunch of things to help partners as part of their workflow, but we’re gonna extend this to the marketplace and ISV area as well. Uh, so I think there’s a lot of opportunity. So, uh, I know there’s probably a lot of feedback in friction, uh, in, in certain parts. [00:38:29] Dai Vu: So we can, we can go tackle together. [00:38:32] Vince Menzione: Hey. There you go. There was a little [00:38:34] Dai Vu: plug [00:38:34] Shawn Toldo: there for tackle. Exactly. [00:38:37] Dai Vu: Uh, and I wanted, and just to be clear, I want to take a look at it from the end to end, uh, uh, flow, right? It shouldn’t just be just marketplace. It should be all the way from like, you know, top of the funnel, demand generation, all the way to like post transaction follow up. [00:38:51] Dai Vu: So we really need to take a look at, at the, the end, end flows and figure out a way we can remove some of that friction [00:38:56] Vince Menzione: three sense. [00:38:57] Dai Vu: Yeah. [00:38:59] Vince Menzione: Any more questions [00:39:00] Audience Guest: back here? Hey. Hey guys. This, this is a really good discussion. Uh, di this question’s primarily, uh, from, I’m interested in the hyperscaler response. [00:39:09] Audience Guest: Yep. Uh, but all of you, uh, can you talk about the patterns or say more about the patterns between. Um, the consumption of just platform capabilities versus industry workflows. Mm-hmm. And how industry where I, I mean, I, I, my sense is that industry workflows are becoming more [00:39:27] Dai Vu: Yeah. [00:39:28] Audience Guest: Uh, the easier thing for enterprises and SMBs to buy. [00:39:33] Audience Guest: Yeah. Especially SMBs, I think. Um, but say more about those patterns that you’re seeing develop and kind of what is. Uh, who are, where, where are those kind of, where is the demand being driven? Is it, is it, yeah. The search and discover in the marketplace, or is it being led by field sales of mm-hmm. Either GCP or partners? [00:39:55] Dai Vu: Yeah, so let me, I’ll mention a couple, a couple areas where, where it’s growing. So I think number one I mentioned before about some of these large horizontal business apps that we’re partnering with, right? Um, and, uh, and of course the fact that we’re, we’re, we’re transacting them through marketplace is, is a huge. [00:40:14] Dai Vu: Evolution from a few years ago. So who would’ve thought you would be buying like, you know, a hundred million dollars a CB deals, uh, through, through marketplace with like a Salesforce or a ServiceNow workday. But it’s happening now. And to be clear, all these. Horizontal business app. They’re not doing this in a very, you know, opportunistic, transactional way. [00:40:32] Dai Vu: They basically see marketplace and cloud go to market as a strategic growth lever for them. So that’s one big area. So from just a pure large deal perspective. Okay. Then you mentioned before around sort of corporate and SMB. Well, we find that a lot of the big opportunities are mostly around as they scale their business, uh, they’re not necessarily looking for things in the traditional sort of infrastructure space, but they’re looking for, you know, full SaaS applications to help scale their business, right? [00:40:58] Dai Vu: So it would be CRM, finance, hr, these types of solutions to become very attractive for some of this, uh, downstream market. And then lastly, as I mentioned before, which is, uh, when we think about this gentrification and owning, um. Uh, driving, uh, this business process and vertical, the ISVs become very important along with the services partners who bring that domain expertise to drive the end to end workflow. [00:41:25] Dai Vu: So I think that’s gonna be increasingly important. So those are three areas I think we need to watch out for. We. Okay. [00:41:30] John Janke: Maybe one thing, like as the cloud commit grows inside of companies, it’s shifted from being an engineering department, IT department budget line item to a corporate finance budget line item. [00:41:40] John Janke: Typically one of the top five to 10 expenses in a company. So that has shifted. Who is thinking about optimizing? The cloud commit with marketplace contracts. And that opens, that’s really opened up the avenue in addition to like these biz apps, vertical apps players. Yeah. Like having success. So I, I do think even inside your own company, evaluating where your cloud commits are, who owns them and are they thinking about the intersection of marketplace? [00:42:06] John Janke: ’cause I, I think it’s smaller companies, they’re still figuring it out. I run into engineering leaders who still own the commits, uh, but in medium to large companies. Very different. [00:42:16] Vince Menzione: Really good point. Because it, you know this, the optics change dramatically, right? This large commitment is now at the board level, [00:42:23] John Janke: right? [00:42:23] John Janke: And then you do have to teach your sellers as a vertical or business application player how to ask that question. ’cause the first resistance everybody says is, oh my, my person, my stakeholder, we. Manufacturing vertical application provider talking at an event last week, and they’re like, the shop floor manufacturing owner doesn’t know anything about the cloud commit. [00:42:43] John Janke: But if they ask the question, be like, Hey, do you guys have a strategic relationship with Google? Would it be easier to buy our product on the bill? Eight out of 10 times they get a yes. So [00:42:52] Vince Menzione: which is why the 5% comes in And that really accelerates the conversation happening. Yeah. We’ve got three more minutes. [00:43:01] Vince Menzione: Um, if we don’t have any other questions, I ha I have one for each of you really about the maturity model and partners are in the room that are not committed yet, right? We’ve talked about some very significant DBTs doing some incredible things, right? So we, there’s maybe a sense that like we, you, you are working with the be the biggest and the best out there, but what about everyone else that’s in the room that maybe isn’t committed yet? [00:43:23] Vince Menzione: And maybe they’re in motion, but they need some help and advice on what to go do next. What? What would you say die first? [00:43:30] Dai Vu: So they’re early stage, [00:43:31] Vince Menzione: early, early stage or not, they’re not on board yet. They’re not, yeah. They’re not with you yet. [00:43:35] Dai Vu: Yeah. So I’ll, I’ll go back to my earlier comment, which is that as you go into the journey, just be very intentional about what you need to do from an operational, investment people, uh, technology perspective. [00:43:47] Dai Vu: Uh, because it could be, it could be a multi-year journey. Um, uh, so I’d say go into it with the right expectations as opposed to thinking it’s going to be some accelerated six month thing that Sean has been driving here. It’s, he’s the outlier. [00:43:59] Shawn Toldo: But, but the reason for the outlier, [00:44:00] Dai Vu: yeah. [00:44:01] Shawn Toldo: And just to add to the intentional point Yeah. [00:44:02] Shawn Toldo: Is, you know, hire the right people. Right. So, somebody told me a long time ago, uh, hire slow, fire fast. That’s a really, really, really good principle that I take. Mm-hmm. I don’t like the fire part, obviously, but just for context, I, I am very lucky to have a great set of leaders that we were able to add people in. [00:44:24] Shawn Toldo: When I walked in the door, we had a person that was leading the Snowflake and AWS partnership. I had nobody on GCPI had nobody on Microsoft. I had nobody on Databricks. And then we made prioritization decisions on where we’re gonna go next. And so we hired people that had the experience and could drive the outcome in the right way. [00:44:43] Shawn Toldo: But we were very thoughtful about when we made those decisions on a quarterly basis, not a daily basis. So who you’re gonna bet on and then who you’re gonna put in the seat to make that bet come to life, I think is a really important thing as well. [00:44:58] John Janke: Yeah. [00:44:58] Vince Menzione: John, you worked with the be biggest and the best out there, so Yeah, sorry. [00:45:01] John Janke: Well, I think there’s the, like there’s the bottoms up and the tops down. Like seven years ago, this was all bottoms up. It was a partner leader who thought launching a marketplace would be good and they would go figure out how to do some deals and then sell their way up. Today there’s a lot more top down where people get it. [00:45:17] John Janke: But you can evaluate top down pretty fast. ’cause if you go talk to your CEO, you talk to your head of product, you talk to your CFO, and they have an allergic reaction to these concepts. You know, you have to go bottoms up. But there also are success story examples in every single ISV category that exists. [00:45:33] John Janke: Like this is not just security and data and DevOp like the, I think the ServiceNow. Salesforce workday. Examples are really great, like the marketing tech examples, more and more business of vertical apps every day. So I do think you can look at those people who’ve been successful. Maybe they’re your competitors, maybe they’re people you aspire to be and reference them as you’re trying to figure out how to do top down. [00:45:55] John Janke: But like you need both. You can’t win long term unless you get top down and bottom up aligned. [00:46:01] Shawn Toldo: And, and when I, when I would go ask for resourcing, I would always get the question, do, could you go faster with more? And I’d say, no. Gimme the one or two humans here, let me go prove it out and I’ll come back. [00:46:13] Shawn Toldo: So there’s a little bit of a strategy in doing that, that you’re gonna get more over time when you’re, you know, very measured in how you go ask for investment and resource. And so I would just add that point also. [00:46:27] Vince Menzione: Was, was hiring a significant component of your executive commitment, Sean? I mean, [00:46:33] Shawn Toldo: yes. So when I walked in the door at DBT, we had eight people in the partner organization. [00:46:38] Shawn Toldo: Today we have 25, and that was 18 months ago. But that did not happen. I didn’t go in and ask for, you know, that 16 people. Right. I asked over time in a very measured way with, you know, the programs and strategy team, like, what can we also support? You don’t want to bring somebody in to go do something and you don’t have the programs and operations side to support it ’cause they’ll fail. [00:47:01] Shawn Toldo: So we’ve been very thoughtful about how we’ve done that as well. [00:47:04] Vince Menzione: Die from you. I know you had something. [00:47:06] Dai Vu: No, no, no. I, I was good. [00:47:08] Vince Menzione: What is the one thing that people in this room need to go better and differently? Is there one, is there one specific thing other than what we’ve already discussed, did we miss anything? [00:47:16] Dai Vu: No, I would just, the whole identification. So obviously, uh, identifying this is not just like slapping a chat bot, but more around thinking all the things we talked about, product commercials, but also go to market where it’s agent first, where you can surface your agent in a workflow like Gemini Enterprise app. [00:47:34] Dai Vu: That’s gonna drive high alignment with how we work and go to market with Google. [00:47:38] Vince Menzione: Awesome. [00:47:38] Dai Vu: Yeah. [00:47:40] Vince Menzione: Wow. Good stuff. Yeah. Very good session. [00:47:44] Dai Vu: Thank [00:47:44] Vince Menzione: you guys. What do you think? Everyone? Thank you very much. [00:47:47] Shawn Toldo: Thanks for listening to the Ultimate Partner Podcast. [00:47:50] Vince Menzione: If today’s conversation resonated, share it with a partner leader in your network. [00:47:55] Vince Menzione: Subscribe where you listen, and head over to the ultimate partner.com. For show notes related content and the resources for this episode. And if you haven’t already, now’s the time to register for the Ultimate Partner Live Event in Reston, Virginia, [00:48:11] John Janke: October 26th through October 28th. [00:48:14] Vince Menzione: Until next time, keep showing up in the rooms that matter because being in the room changes everything [00:48:22] I.

Barbara Lin is a highly versatile constructor — she has made crosswords for every day of the week, and this is her second Friday creation.The grid had a daunting amount of white space in it, with 4 grid-spanning answers. Fortunately, the clues went easy on the pop culture references and both cohosts — solving independently as is their wont — were able to get through the puzzle without too many naticks.The clues themselves were excellent. Few could resist 8D, Essayist who wrote "Not many sounds in life, and I include all urban and all rural sounds, exceed in interest a knock at the door", ELIA. We wager that only the most dour would frown at 28D, Pros in Washington, YEAS. And only the most jaded would be unimpressed with 34A, Makes a return that hits the net?, EFILES.In addition to the crossword, we have a Fun Fact Friday™️ segment for your listening pleasure, and an exceptional piece of listener mail. Enjoy!Show note imagery: On the left, TEMPERA; on the right, TEMPURA. Whatever you do, do not confuse the two: painting with TEMPURA could be highly problematic

Brought to you by TogetherLetters & Edgewise!In this episode: AI FRONTIER & FALLOUTIt's Not About Anthropic vs. OpenAI AnymoreAsian AI Startups Launch Mythos-Like ModelsAnthropic Launches Claude Sonnet 5Claude Fable 5 Makes a Dramatic ReturnFord Rehires 'Gray Beard' Engineers After AI Falls ShortAI Is Creating America's Next UnderclassMONEY, MARKETS & CRYPTOBig Tech and Wall Street Team Up on a StablecoinHow Trump Made $1B on Crypto While Investors LostBending Spoons Surges 40% on First Day of TradingZuckerberg Is Building Another Product Nobody Asked ForSCIENCE, HEALTH & BODIESLouisiana Man Functionally Cured of Sickle CellGlobal Review Confirms mRNA Vaccines Are SafeLab-Grown Retinal Cells Show Promise for Eye TherapiesPhysical Pressure Could Double EV Battery LifeDrummer Rediscovers Passion After Life-Changing AccidentPRIVACY & SECURITYSupreme Court Restricts Geofence WarrantsLastPass Users Had Their Data Stolen — AgainHackers Shoveled Snow, Got Network Admin AccessWEIRD AND WACKYHeinz Releases 'Unofficial' Ketchup Over FIFA BlackoutCoder Ranks Which Coworkers Stress Him Out via WhoopArtificial Skin Lets Robots Sense Heat and PressureTech Rec:Sanjay - Boardy Adam - WhoopFind us here:sanjayparekh.com & adamjwalker.comTech Talk Y'all is a proud production of Edgewise.Media.

What is Climate Cabinet? Most climate advocates focus their energy on Washington– but often, real change happens closer to home. Climate Cabinet, founded by Caroline Spears, is dedicated to backing and electing climate champions at the state and local level, where the work of cutting emissions, lowering energy costs, and building clean transportation largely gets done. Focusing Locally  While presidential races and Senate battles dominate national attention, decisions about electricity grids, transit systems, housing density, and building codes are being made day-to-day by city councils, county boards, state legislatures, and utility commissions.  Climate Cabinet describes their approach as “Moneyball for Climate”-- borrowing the analytics term made famous in baseball, where data is used to find undervalued players with outsized potential. Applied to politics, it means identifying overlooked races where a relatively small investment can shift climate policy. Candidate selection is non-partisan in practice. Rather than relying on party affiliation, Climate Cabinet examines candidate's voting records, looking at how candidates have acted when major issues came before their city council, county board, or state legislature. They then back promising candidates early, providing financial support and policy expertise to help them build a winning campaign. One of the most surprising– and consequential– offices Climate Cabinet focuses on is the utility commission. In select states, these commissioners are elected directly by voters, giving the public a rare and often overlooked say in how electricity is generated and priced.  How it Makes a Difference  State and local elections are often decided by thin margins and operate on small budgets compared to federal races. So unlike at the federal level, volunteer hours, early endorsements, and targeted outreach can be incredibly effective at building support for specific candidates. Climate Cabinet's win rate reflects this– according to Spears, the organization has won 62% of its top priority races, spanning municipal, county, and state offices.  And because state and local officials are often closer to the problems their constituents face, the case for climate action is often easier to make. A state legislator can point to lower electricity bills from renewable energy, a city council member can garner support for more efficient bus service, a utility commissioner can push for faster grid buildout. Climate action, then, becomes a direct way to lower electricity bills, improve air quality, and expand transit access.  Challenges With hundreds of thousands of elected positions across the country, even a well-resourced organization can only engage in a fraction of the races that matter. Spears also notes the difficulty of cutting through the noise in a fractured media environment. Many of Climate Cabinet's candidates are running for offices most voters don't think about, such as state budget committees and utility boards– making voter outreach and name recognition an uphill battle even in favorable districts. The political environment itself remains a structural barrier. Running for office at any level has become more difficult, with political violence on the rise and entrenched interests– fossil fuel companies and real estate developers, to name a few– actively working to block climate-friendly candidates.  Spears' View For Spears, the goal is to build a political environment in which supporting clean energy, affordable housing near transit, and zero-carbon transportation is the natural, low-resistance choice for any elected official.  She's also clear-eyed about what motivates the best candidates she works with: a real commitment to their communities, not necessarily ambition for higher office. Spears is particularly focused on transportation– the largest single source of climate pollution in the U.S.-- and on finding candidates who understand that the path to zero-carbon transit looks different in each state, requiring local leadership to deliver. About Our Guest Caroline Spears is the founder and Executive Director of Climate Cabinet, an organization that makes local climate policy solutions actionable for policymakers. She earned her B.S. and M.S. in Atmosphere and Energy Engineering from Stanford University. Before founding Climate Cabinet, she worked in solar energy.  Other Resources & Further Reading Climate Cabinet website: Climate Cabinet The Chisholm Legacy Project: Demystifying and Democratizing Public Utility Commissions The Guardian: Inside the climate group working everywhere but DC: ‘You can still have huge wins'  Caroline Spears biography: Caroline Spears For a transcript please visit, climatebreak.org/backing-climate-champions-in-local-elections-with-caroline-spears/

Makes no sense

In this episode a group of students and patrons join me to reflect on the recent Venus-Jupiter conjunction in Cancer, and to share stories of how it manifested in our lives based on which of the twelve houses it was transiting in their birth charts. The episode opens with a brief introduction where I talk about the importance of taking into account both the entire range of the sign-based conjunction or copresence between Venus and Jupiter, which lasted from May 18 until June 13, as well as the more intense range of the degree-based conjunction which went exact on June 9. After that I interview several people about their experience of the conjunction, looking at how it functioned in various houses alongside examples of notable public figures who also experienced this transit. This is episode 539 of The Astrology Podcast. Timestamps 00:00:00 Introduction00:02:27 Celebrity Examples: Musk, Spielberg, Biden, etc00:15:43 Factors that Makes the Conjunction More or Less Important00:19:25 Squares from Aries00:22:48 Michelle: Venus-Jupiter Conjunction in 2nd House00:26:30 Arrie - 8th House00:30:32 Laszlo - 3rd House00:34:07 Karina - 8th House00:38:59 Miriam - 12th House00:45:58 Margaret - 1st House00:51:29 Jessica - 1st House00:57:40 Delilah - 11th House01:04:02 Miscellaneous Examples01:17:06 Gillian - 1st House Challenging Example01:28:57 Chiron and Eris01:38:45 Concluding Remarks Watch the Video Version of This Episode https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwwZmj_Daco - Listen to the Audio Version of This Episode Listen to the audio version of this episode or download it as an MP3:

- Omdia: OEMs Ditching Low-Cost, High-Volume Smartphones - How Massive Memory Profit Sharing Could Hurt South Korean Economy - Developers Ask Regulators in China to Investigate Apple's App Store - watchOS 27 Developer Beta 2 Makes the Scene - Apple Seeds More Headphone Firmware Developer Betas - Checking MacBook Neo Availability - SellCell: Foldable Smartphones Not Great for Resale - Apple TV Drops Trailer for "The Dink" - Sponsored by CleanMyMac: Use code MACOSKEN20 for 20% off at clnmy.com/MACOSKEN - Sponsored by OneSkin: Get 15% off OneSkin with the code MACOSKEN at oneskin.co/MACOSKEN #oneskinpod #sponsored - Catch Ken on Mastodon - @macosken@mastodon.social - Send Ken an email: info@macosken.com - Chat with us on Patreon for as little as $1 a month. Support the show at Patreon.com/macosken

The only thing worse than anti gun organizations like Giffords is anti gun veterans turned politicians. They swore an oath in the military, then immediately spit on that oath once they become politicians. Makes me sick. Jordan and I also cover some fun self defense topics, Jiu Jitsu, and some fun stories from back in the day. Victory Drive Merch NOW AVAILABLE at the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠WCB STORE⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Victory Drive Patreon!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Interact with me on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠X (Twitter)⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.workingclassbowhunter.com/victorydrive⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Victory Drive is proudly presented by Grizzly Coolers and Supported by these Amazing Partners! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Grizzly Coolers⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Code WCB ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Huntworth⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Code WCB15 Don't forget to check out the other shows on the WCB Podcast Network! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Working Class Bowhunter Podcast!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Tackle & Tacos!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Hunting The Mason Dixon! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

England are back in action tonight! After putting those Croatian slugs to the sword, it's Ghana's turn to face the wrath of Tommy Tuchel's boys.Marcus and Luke are here (lamppost flag in hand) to preview the big one. What's England's best centre-back partnership? Is Declan Rice actually fit? And is it coincidental that Luke's very own Gosport is the hottest place in the UK today? Makes you think.GET TICKETS FOR THE NEXT RAMBLE WORLD CUP WATCH PARTY HERE!Get your Football Ramble x Admiral kit here.Find us on Bluesky, X, Instagram, TikTok and YouTube, and email us here: show@footballramble.com.The Football Ramble, the original and best football podcast. Brand new podcasts every single weekday throughout the Premier League season and every day throughout the 2026 FIFA World Cup.No cliches. No ex-pros like Peter Crouch or The Rest is Football. Just the funniest football conversation out there. Your guardian for the season, daily not weekly. Stick to the Ramble, totally. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Makes no sense to be toxic in a co-op game.

If you have ADHD and grief shows up, do you stay busy? Keep moving? Find something else to do? Stay ahead of the quiet? And then through it all does it find you anyway? Waking up at 2 AM, out of nowhere, when you thought you were past it?That's not you doing grief wrong. That's just how ADHD brains grieve. And this episode is about what to actually do when it catches up.Last time, David and Isabelle unpacked why ADHD brains seem to grieve in the wrong order. Why you can stand dry-eyed at a funeral and then fall apart completely at a graduation. And why neither of those things means something is wrong with you. Then they get into the part nobody usually makes time for: what to actually do when it shows up.In this episode:Why ADHD brains get practical when grief shows up, and what it costs when everyone goes homeThe empirical case David makes from his own life for why how much you cry has nothing to do with how much you lovedWhat it actually means to grieve something that isn't a person. A city. A chapter. A version of yourself that no longer fits.Isabelle's therapist's tool for making a date with your grief so it stops ambushing you at 2 AM-------Wait, What's That? Here are some of the terms and people mentioned in this episode explained:Time Agnosia The ADHD experience of not being able to feel time passing the way neurotypical brains do. In this episode it comes up as one explanation for why grief doesn't hit when everyone expects it to. Your brain isn't programmed to feel things on the service's schedule. It hits when it hits, in its own time, in a future moment you weren't ready for.Asynchronous Processing What happens when your brain doesn't process the big emotional stuff in real time. You can be right in the middle of something and feel completely fine. Then weeks later on a walk, out of nowhere, it lands. That's not numbness. That's just how your brain works.Moral Reasoning Isabelle brings up something from a philosophy course that's stayed with her. The idea that a friend is someone you agree to mourn if they die before you. That choosing to be close to someone is already a quiet acknowledgment that one of you will miss the other. She has never forgotten it.Practical Griever The person who, when loss shows up, immediately pivots to action. Makes the calls, brings the food, goes and cleans the house. David and Isabelle both recognize themselves here. The thing is, the grief doesn't go anywhere. It just waits until the room gets quiet.Ambiguous Losses Grief without a clear name or a socially accepted reason to mourn. Moving away from a city you loved. Losing a version of yourself. A friendship that ended without a conversation. Isabelle talks about still carrying grief from leaving Chicago. These losses are real. They just rarely get the space real grief deserves."Nora" David and Isabelle's shorthand for norepinephrine, the brain chemical wired into mood, attention, and stress response. Comes up here in the context of making sure your basic needs are met before you try to sit with the hard stuff. Nora has to be okay before grief can move through you the way it needs to.Duration Measure Isabelle's term for the container David's timer approach creates. When you decide you're going to sit with grief for a set amount of time and then get up, that's a duration measure. It makes the feeling tolerable because it has edges. You're not drowning in it. You know when it ends.Bobby Richards Isabelle's husband and the new Executive Producer of Something Shiny: ADHD. Gets a very well-earned shoutout in this episode for the audio upgrade you're hopefully hearing right now.Autonomic Nervous System The system that runs the involuntary stuff including heart rate, breathing, and stress response. Comes up in Isabelle's deep dive into dyspraxia and how the brain's predictive processing works differently in neurodivergent people.Dyspraxia A motor coordination difference that often shows up alongside ADHD and autism. Isabelle has a paradigm shift in this episode about what dyspraxia actually is and how it connects to the brain's predictive software. Why change is so dysregulating. Why your body is always ten steps behind your brain.AuDHD Having both autism and ADHD. Comes up as Isabelle and David get into the overlap between the two and what it means for how neurodivergent people process change, repetition, and sensory experience.-------

Oscar has Jaime go undercover in a lady wrestling match to help find a missing agent. Meanwhile, there is a defecting Russian Scientist helping Oscar design a new satellite. Somehow these two stories merge together when it turns out the Wrestling promoter is helping the scientist steal the chip she designed. Makes total sense! Check it out! 

TUESDAY HR 4 Detective Barb from Central Florida CrimeLine. The difference between crazy and evil? Can you tell if someone is lying? Detective Barb Russ finally sees the Michael Jackson movie. Makes him question how he feels about it all.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Dr. Deb Muth 00:00:09 Hi there, how are you? Bob Miller 00:00:10 Excellent! Pedaling as fast as humanly possible, but doing okay. Dr. Deb Muth 00:00:14 Good, good. Well, I’m looking forward to our conversation today. This should be amazing. Bob Miller 00:00:20 Yeah, it should be a lot of fun. Dr. Deb Muth 00:00:22 Yeah, anything that’s off-limits for you in, our conversation? Bob Miller 00:00:28 No. Dr. Deb Muth 00:00:29 Okay, anything you want me to make sure we cover for you? Bob Miller 00:00:33 Well, I mean, is it okay if we put a little plug-in for our software? Dr. Deb Muth 00:00:35 Absolutely. Bob Miller 00:00:36 Yeah. Dr. Deb Muth 00:00:37 Absolutely. Bob Miller 00:00:36 Yeah. Dr. Deb Muth 00:00:37 Absolutely. Bob Miller 00:00:38 Hey, can we… can we do a screen share? Yes, we can. Yeah, because I want to show you some maps, and… Dr. Deb Muth 00:00:43 Okay. Things like that, yeah, so… Perfect. So just let me know when you want to do screen share. Bob Miller 00:00:48 Okay. Dr. Deb Muth 00:00:49 And yeah, feel free to plug your software wherever you want to. Bob Miller 00:00:53 Okay, well, good. Let me pull up a, a slide for that, and give me one second, I just want to shut the door to my office to get the noise down. Dr. Deb Muth 00:01:01 No worries. Bob Miller 00:01:16 And, how should I refer to you? Dr. Debb? Dr. Muth, what do you like? Dr. Deb Muth 00:01:18 Dr. Deb is great, or Deb, either way, I’m pretty informal, so… Bob Miller 00:01:22 Yeah, and… Bob is fine for me. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, there you go. Why people feel like they need this, son. Special name, it’s like, seriously. Dr. Deb Muth 00:01:33 Right? I agree. Bob Miller 00:01:35 When I work with my clients, it’s like, Dr. Millison, just, just bop, just, just bop. Dr. Deb Muth 00:01:41 Yep, that’s how I am, too. Just call me Deb, it’s good. Dr. Deb Muth 00:01:44 They feel a little awkward with that, you know? They’re not used to that, but… Bob Miller 00:01:48 Alright. And you’re a naturopath, medical doctor. Dr. Deb Muth 00:01:52 A nastropathic doctor and a nurse practitioner. Oh, nice. Yeah, so I got the best of both worlds, right? Bob Miller 00:01:58 Yeah, damn. Okay. Alright, so here we go… There we go. Alright, so I got that ready, and then I will do a, I will do a screen share. I think you’re gonna really, appreciate what we’ve come up with. We’ve come up with the concept of, Cellular CPR. Dr. Deb Muth 00:02:23 Oh, nice! Bob Miller 00:02:24 And that is, construct the cell membrane, Protect the cell membrane. And restore it if it’s damaged. Dr. Deb Muth 00:02:32 Love that. Bob Miller 00:02:34 I love that. Yeah, so that’s what we’re focusing on, and then how, You know, we want to get to the point that, you know, most people think of genetics, they think of, like, 23andMe or Ancestry. Dr. Deb Muth 00:02:44 Yeah. Bob Miller 00:02:45 And then you have the professional geneticists who are looking at, you know, odd things that could create a disease. We’re looking at functional genomics. Dr. Deb Muth 00:02:54 Which is so much better. Bob Miller 00:02:56 Yeah. Are you familiar with what we do here, or… Dr. Deb Muth 00:02:58 A little bit, a little bit. So, it’ll be new to me, too, so I’m excited. Bob Miller 00:03:03 And how much time do we have? Dr. Deb Muth 00:03:04 We have an hour, give or take a little bit on either side. Do you have a hard stop anywhere? Bob Miller 00:03:10 No, no, I put a, I moved my clients around, and I don’t have anybody till, 3.30, so we’re good. Okay. Dr. Deb Muth 00:03:16 Perfect. Alright. Bob Miller 00:03:18 It’s like we’re getting started early as well, so… Dr. Deb Muth 00:03:19 Yeah, we’re getting started a little bit early, so that’s good. Bob Miller 00:03:22 Yeah, I just got my office cleaned up, so… Dr. Deb Muth 00:03:23 Okay, good. All right, are you all set to get started? Bob Miller 00:03:28 I’m good to go, my friend. Dr. Deb Muth 00:03:29 I’m gonna just record a little intro and a little bit of a, hook for people, and then we’ll get started. I’ll ask you to kind of tell us a little bit about yourself, and then we’ll just take this conversation wherever it’s supposed to go. Bob Miller 00:03:39 Okay, you got it. Dr. Deb Muth 00:03:40 Alright, sounds good. So what if the reason you’re not healing isn’t your diet, your supplements, or your labs, but it’s actually your genes? Dr. Bob Miller is uncovering how genetic variants, when combined with modern toxins, explain why some of us stay sick no matter what we try. Today, we’re talking genetic pathways, detox blocks, and the new science every wellness warrior needs to know. Welcome back to Let’s Talk Wellness Now, the show where we uncover the root causes of chronic illness, exploring cutting-edge regenerative medicine, and empower you to heal from the inside out. I’m Dr. Deb, your medical detective, and today, our guest, Dr. Bob Miller, is a true pioneer in functional genomics. He’s a board-certified traditional naturopath and the founder of Neutrogenetic Research Institute. And he’s the leading groundbreaking research on how genetic variants influence chronic illness, inflammation, and detoxification. His work has been recognized on international stages, uncovering links between genetic expression and conditions like Lyme disease, mast cell activation, or MCAS, and mitochondrial dysfunction. I’m so excited to talk to Dr. Bob today. He is gonna reveal some things that even I don’t know about, so I’m excited to learn alongside of you guys. So… Dr. Bob, let’s get started. Tell us a little bit about yourself, and kind of how you got on this journey. Bob Miller 00:05:04 Well, that’s, that’s interesting. I was sort of like a mid-career coming to the natural health field, because in my early 30s, I found myself with a severe case of ulcerative colitis. Bob Miller 00:05:15 And I was in the hospital for 21 days. probably within hours of death, pleading to death. And they told me I’ve got one option, and that is cut out the colon and wear a bag. Didn’t sound like a lot of fun. Dr. Deb Muth 00:05:27 Not an option I would want. Bob Miller 00:05:29 So, you know, the medical folks wasn’t real happy with me, but I said, yeah, I’d like to explore some alternative things.Never thinking that I’d get into this field, and then I just, you know, worked with some herbalists and things that I found absolutely fascinating. So, that’s how I got into this around 30 years ago. And, haven’t looked back since, and just having a… having a blast as we now move into how our genetics impacts things. So, that’s what we’re gonna… that’s what we’re gonna talk about today. Dr. Deb Muth 00:05:58 I’m excited to talk about this genetic thing. When you started over 30 years ago, what kind of patience and problems first inspired you to dig deeper into that root cause healing and kind of get into the genetic piece of it? Bob Miller 00:06:10 Sure. Well, you know, as a… now, I’m in a part of the country called Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, where there’s a lot of Amish and Mennonite, and they gravitate towards these things.So, this is their first thing to do, and that doesn’t work, then they’ll go other routes. So, you know, back then, we just saw typical, you know, a little tired, constipation. You know, a little bit of fatigue, arthritis, those kind of things. But things have changed dramatically over the years, as people are now getting more chronically sick. You know, it’s worse than it’s ever been. And what we’re finding is the, the culprits Primarily is mold exposure and Lyme disease. When people get those two together, they’re just… it’s an inflammatory cascade that nobody can seem to unravel. So that’s where we spend a lot of our time. And we’re also spending a lot of time looking at mental health, like ADD, ADHD. And, we give… this year I’ll be speaking at three autism conferences. And we can dig into that a little bit as to why we think we’re seeing such a dramatic increase. And aside from autism, that used to be 1 out of 1,000, now it’s 1 out of 33, or 23. You know, we’re also seeing dramatic increases in ADD, ADHD. People are stressed out. And today, I think we’ll have the time to actually go through and show how environmental factors combine with genetics to cause that to happen. So we’ll… we should have a fun visit here today. And today, I think we’ll have the time to actually go through and show how environmental factors combine with genetics to cause that to happen. So we’ll… we should have a fun visit here today. Dr. Deb Muth 00:07:37 This should be a fun visit. We can cover lots of topics. I am so excited. So, you founded Nutri Genetic Research Institute in 2015. What did you hope to accomplish, and what kind of surprised you in your findings so far about that? Bob Miller 00:07:51 Well, you know, let’s back up at what, you know, genetics is used for. Everybody’s familiar with 23andMe and Ancestry that, you know, tells you where your ancestors came from. Then you have your professional geneticists. I mean, these are people with a degree in genetics. And they’ll look for, you know, very odd sort of things that are prone to relate to a disease. So there are disease-related genetics. Well, in functional, we don’t look at either of those. We look at For example, how you’re breaking down your fats and utilizing them. How you’re recycling your glutathione. How you might be handling your iron. And none of those are disease-causing on their own.And none of those are disease-causing on their own. But when they pile up on you, and then combine that with environmental factors, that’s when things start to go south on us. So, that’s what we’re doing, we’re looking at patterns. And our first foray into this was, we did studies on Lyme disease. And our first foray into this was, we did studies on Lyme disease. So, we looked at, like, I think 50 people with Lyme disease. We looked at their genome. So, we looked at, like, I think 50 people with Lyme disease. We looked at their genome. And we found patterns that were more evident in those with Lyme. Now, this doesn’t… these genetics don’t mean you get Lyme, it just means if you get Lyme, you react worse to it. And we found patterns that were more evident in those with Lyme. Now, this doesn’t… these genetics don’t mean you get Lyme, it just means if you get Lyme, you react worse to it. So, as you know, some people get Lyme, they go on a round of antibiotics, and they’re done. So, as you know, some people get Lyme, they go on a round of antibiotics, and they’re done. Others have a little more struggle, and then others are struggling terribly for years. So there’s an old adage of genetics loads the gun, environment pulls the trigger. Dr. Deb Muth 00:09:14 Yeah, that is so true, and I think when we’re talking about Lyme and mold and things like that, we forget sometimes that our genetics can predispose us to be more sensitive to those things, and if we have genetic pathways where we don’t clear things properly, it’s harder for us to get them out of the body. And then you add on that whole rain barrel effect that we’ve always used as a functional medicine term, right? If the barrel’s half full, you’re okay. If it’s full, and now it’s spilling over, it’s a bigger problem. Have you guys found, too, that some of these environmental things actually are changing the genetics of people, or how they’re processing their own genetics? Bob Miller 00:09:53 Well, let’s go back to, Genetics 101. But we’ll go back a little bit further. So, what an interesting mechanism, what a miracle the body is. Bob Miller 00:10:03 Fats, carbohydrates, proteins, drink water, breathe air, expose the sunlight, and somehow everything gets made. I mean, when you just step back and think about that, it’s like, It’s pretty darn amazing. Dr. Deb Muth 00:10:15 I always tell women, you know, the fact that we get pregnant and we have healthy pregnancies and births is a miracle, because if we had to try to control that, that wouldn’t work so well. Bob Miller 00:10:25 Right. Well, that’s another miracle. These microscopic sperm and egg, human being, 9 months later, it’s like. But even inside of us. We are making our hair, our skin, our nails, our blood vessels, our ATP, our energy, it’s all being created. Well, that gets created by enzymes. So, enzymes take one substance, combine it with something else, and make something new. Then another enzyme comes along and does the same thing. Your DNA is the instructions on how to make the enzymes. So, when we are conceived. If it’s a, if it’s a female, of course, it’s the XX, the two chromosomes. You know, we’ve… everybody’s seen those… the genetics that… Listed pair. So, if it’s a female, the father donated the X enzyme. And the mother has no choice but to give the eggs, so that’s female. If the father donates the Y, you have a male that’s in chromosome number 1. Then 2 through 23 is the rest of the instructions on how to make enzymes. So, what can happen? We can get what are called SNPs, single nucleotide polymorphisms. And SNPs just mean that the instructions to make the enzyme’s not quite as good. So, if one parent gives a SNP on the making of an enzyme, The enzyme’s fine. It works. But, general rule of thumb, It may only work at 70-80% of efficiency. Now, a good analogy is think of an 8-cylinder and a 6-cylinder car. If parents give you good information, that’s like having an 8-cylinder car. If one parent gives you that snip, it’s like having a 6-cylinder car. Now, is a 6-cylinder car a fine car? Sure. It’ll get you from point A to point B, but it’s just going to have the power of an 8-cylinder. Then if both parents give you a SNP on the same enzyme, it may be 30-40%, and that’s like having a 4-cylinder car. Sits in the driveway, looks the same, puts gas in it, everything. But if you’ve got a 4-cylinder car. Probably not a good idea to go cross-country pulling a trailer behind you up and down mountains. Dr. Deb Muth 00:12:29 This is true. Bob Miller 00:12:32 So… We can get an 8-cylinder, 6-cylinder, or 4-cylinder enzyme. Now, if it’s not under a lot of stress, if that 4-cylinder car is just taking you to the bank and the grocery store. It’s just as good as an 8-cylinder car. But if you gotta pull that trailer, and there’s a lot of stress on it, being mountains, it’s gonna struggle. Now, there’s one other little caveat to this, and that is some genetic mutations are gain-of-function. They actually work faster. Now, we have enzymes that do all kinds of things. We have enzymes that make and recycle our antioxidants, but we also have enzymes that make inflammation. No, that’s a good thing, because if we get a virus or bacteria, if you didn’t make inflammation to kill it, well, we’d all die of infection. So, you know, we tend to think of free radicals as bad, antioxidants as good. They both play an important role. But interestingly, some of the major enzymes that make inflammation, they can be overactive. They can be turbocharged. And when they’re stimulated by environmental toxins, they overreact. Bob Miller 00:13:40 And therein lies the problem. When they overreact, we have a problem. Bob Miller 00:13:46 So, if we have genes that overreact when stimulated. And then the enzymes that take care of inflammation are underactive. Then you’re gonna be more inflamed. You know, the majority of people that, you know, come for functional medicine Or naturopathic help, or… Inflammation that they can’t seem to get under control. Dr. Deb Muth 00:14:06 Right. Bob Miller 00:14:07 And we will be, you know, during this hour, we’re going to look at some of the pathways that make that happen. So, what we can do then, we can’t change our genetics. When you’re conceived, that’s the hand you’re dealt. When your life would be over, if someone would take some tissue and measure, it’d be exactly the same as conception. Does it change. Bob Miller 00:14:28 The enzyme’s ability to do its job may be compromised. Because remember I said there’s a, the enzyme takes a cofactor. So an enzyme takes substance A, cofactor, make substance B. Well, if that cofactor’s not there, the enzyme’s not going to work either. So, you could have an 8-cylinder car, and if there’s no gas in it, it’s not going anywhere. So… It’s the strength of the enzyme, it’s the cofactor to do the A to B conversion. And that’s what we’re going to get into. So, many people say, well, where did these SNPs come from? Nobody knows for sure. Sometimes they’re what’s just called de novo, when the sperm and egg go together, the instructions get mixed up a little bit. We do believe a lot of it came from a long time ago, when we were almost wiped out by sexually transmitted diseases. And those STDs were altering the genes when the conception, in other words, when the sperm went into the egg, the STDs were interfering. And causing the problem, so… I often joke, if you want to blame somebody. Blame your great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandparents for, being a bit promiscuous, so… Dr. Deb Muth 00:15:31 Yeah, for being… having a little too much fun, right? Bob Miller 00:15:35 So, we don’t know for sure, but, you know, there are some that, But most of the SNPs that we get inherit from our parents. So, if you look at a child. And you look at the SNPs. 99.9% of the time, it came from one of the parents. Dr. Deb Muth 00:15:50 In identical twins, do they have the exact same identical makeup? Bob Miller 00:15:54 Yep, Dr. Deb Muth 00:15:56 But not in fraternal twins, correct? Bob Miller 00:15:59 No, no, those could be different, Jeff. Dr. Deb Muth 00:16:00 It could be different because they have different sacs, they’re not sharing that same genetic makeup. Bob Miller 00:16:04 Yeah, so keep in mind, both your mother and your father have, you know, the two And so you get one from one parent, one from another. Dr. Deb Muth 00:16:13 So… Bob Miller 00:16:14 Interesting situation. I had, 3, 3 boys. And, we were looking at an enzyme related to breaking down oxalates. Now, the mother and father each had one SNP, and that’s called heterozygous. Three boys, and they all come together, they’re Amish boys, they’re a lot of fun. And I looked at their genomes, and the one boy didn’t have any SNPs at all. And one had won. And the other one had two. Dr. Deb Muth 00:16:41 Interesting. Bob Miller 00:16:42 So, we don’t quite know how these things get handed off, but with the parents each having one, you could have a child with none, one, or two. So, the one, his ability to break down oxalates, which is fine. The other one was slightly impaired, and the other one was dramatically impaired. So, you can have 3 children, and it all depends what the parents have. Now, if a parent has a homozygous, or 2 copies. And the other parent has nothing. Every child will have one. Okay. If both parents are homozygous, that they both have two, Every child will have two. Dr. Deb Muth 00:17:19 too. Bob Miller 00:17:20 Yes, so that’s the way it works, but, you know, but it’s somewhat rare that both parents are homozygous on an enzyme, but it can happen. Dr. Deb Muth 00:17:27 Do we think that infections today, like Lyme disease or mold exposure, things like that, if the parent, the woman, primarily, I’m thinking, is pregnant, and she actively has these infections. Can those infections affect the genetics, kind of like a past sexual transmission did where we thought back in the day? Bob Miller 00:17:47 Yeah, I… I mean, I’m not that much of a geneticist to answer that for sure, but my thought would be no, that at conception, the pattern’s made. Dr. Deb Muth 00:17:55 Okay. And then that’s… that’s the hand you’re dealt. Bob Miller 00:17:58 Yeah. So, I tell people we have good news and bad news. The good news is we can compensate for the weakness. The bad news is we can compensate for the weakness. Dr. Deb Muth 00:18:09 That is so very true. Bob Miller 00:18:11 Yeah, we can’t, because I often get asked, so we’ll do some things now, and we’ll check my genes again, and they’ll be better. It’s like, nope. Dr. Deb Muth 00:18:18 Oh, – – Bob Miller 00:18:19 You gotta play the hands you’re dealt, so… Dr. Deb Muth 00:18:21 That’s right. Bob Miller 00:18:22 You can test your genetics… if you’re looking at the same enzyme, you can test it every year. It’s not gonna change. It’s like the blueprint. Dr. Deb Muth 00:18:30 It’s good and bad, right? It’s the one test you only have to do once in your lifetime. Bob Miller 00:18:34 No, unless, you know, like, our. Dr. Deb Muth 00:18:36 All the time. Bob Miller 00:18:37 Yeah, now our test looks at, called the Functional Genomic Analysis Test of your genomic Resource. We look at 220,000 steps. Dr. Deb Muth 00:18:46 Wow, that’s a lot. Bob Miller 00:18:47 That’s not all of them. Dr. Deb Muth 00:18:49 Right. Bob Miller 00:18:50 So, maybe in the next year, we’re gonna come out with our third version of the chip. And then, if someone wants to get those new things that weren’t on it, they’d have to repeat. But whatever we measured is gonna stay the same. Dr. Deb Muth 00:19:03 That’s a lot of SNPs to look at. Bob Miller 00:19:05 Keeps us busy. Dr. Deb Muth 00:19:06 But there’s still, but there’s still SNPs that we. Bob Miller 00:19:09 That we’d like to have that we don’t have, so… Bob Miller 00:19:11 We started out with version 1 on our genetic test, then we worked with version 2, and we’re already compiling a list of what version 3 would look like. So if somebody has our version 2, And we’re saying, you know what, it’d be nice if we could see these, well, then you’d repeat, but it won’t change what you already know, so… Dr. Deb Muth 00:19:29 Got it, got it. So, when you started out, and you started looking at the research of Lyme disease and chronic infections, which detox pathways are most important for people who struggle with those conditions? Bob Miller 00:19:43 Okay. You know what might make sense as we do a screen share, and I’ll actually show you the pathway. Does that make sense? Bob Miller 00:19:48 Alright, so… let’s see if I… let me just press the share… Dr. Deb Muth 00:19:52 Yep, you should just be able to press share. Bob Miller 00:19:54 And… number 2. Okay. Are we seeing the screen there? Bob Miller 00:20:01 Okay. Dr. Deb Muth 00:20:02 So, this is a map that we made. Bob Miller 00:20:05 And by the way, this is not… All-inclusive of all the things we look at, but we believe this is a core issue. So, where we’re going to start here, there’s something called the microglia. And the microglia are glial cells. They’re in the brain and the central nervous system. And they’re very interesting little creatures, because most of the time, and this is just a drawing of what they sort of look like. Most of the time, they’re in what’s called the M2 anti-inflammatory mood. What that means, these little guys pick up dirt, debris, Recycle them. Turns on an enzyme called interleukin-10 that’s anti-inflammatory. And just kind of does general housekeeping. And just kind of does general housekeeping. However, when a trigger comes along. However, when a trigger comes along. They… it’s the same glial cell, but it moves over to a very pro-inflammatory enzyme. A pro-inflammatory glial cell. And it triggers these 3 enzymes, Actually, these four. That are pro-inflammatory. Tumor necrosis vector alpha, Interleukin-6. NF Kappa B, Inos. Now, these create inflammation. So you might think, well, why is that good? Well, if you have some foreign invader, virus, bacteria coming in, parasite. If you didn’t have these guys coming to the rescue, you would just die of infection. So, these guys are your friend unless they’re your worst enemy. Because TNFA, and we’ll show you when we actually do a demo account, TNFA can be overactive. So, in other words, it over-responds. Interleukin-6 can be overactive. And if Kappa-B can be overactive. The INOS, and I’ll explain each of these as we go through a demo, can be overactive. Now, what that means is, you’re very good at killing virus and bacteria. But this is where autoimmune disease comes in, and just inflammatory conditions. Now, this is just speculation, but we think what happened is, as you know. Thousands of years ago, we didn’t have refrigeration, we didn’t have sewer, we didn’t have pure water, and we didn’t have antibiotics. So, if you made it to 40, you were an old-timer, because everybody was dying of infection. So, what we believe happened is, by what’s called natural selection, Having these overactive. A thousand years ago was to your advantage. Dr. Deb Muth 00:22:31 Hmm. Bob Miller 00:22:32 But now… We have pure water, we have refrigeration, we have sewers, we have antibiotics. But now we have environmental factors that are stimulating them. Now it’s to our disadvantage. And we’ll talk about that a little bit as it relates to the hemochromatosis genes and maybe the G6PD. Dr. Deb Muth 00:22:48 Yep. Bob Miller 00:22:49 Now, why are we becoming so inflamed? Let’s look at the triggers. Now, one of my, favorite expressions is. I was born all the way back in 1954. Dr. Deb Muth 00:23:01 And it was a different world back then. Bob Miller 00:23:05 These are some of the triggers. And we’ll get into these, but right now, high fructose corn syrup, And the high-fat diet. High fructose corn syrup only came about in 1968. So now we’re being exposed to high fructose corn syrup. Then… we didn’t have these, these viruses like COVID. Dr. Deb Muth 00:23:26 Yeah. Bob Miller 00:23:27 Now, there’s now pretty strong evidence that COVID Was actually, you know, made as a gain of function. It’s debated, and I’m not taking an opinion on it, but there’s some people who believe Lyme disease was also a part of experimentation. Dr. Deb Muth 00:23:40 Go. Bob Miller 00:23:41 Then we have molds, and it appears as though mold is getting stronger. you know, 20 years ago, when I was seeing folks, mold wasn’t on the radar. I would say 7 out of the 10 folks we speak to today have mold problems. Yeah, 20 years ago, we talked more about mold allergy being an issue versus mold toxicity being an issue. Right. So… I know some folks are, you know, speculating what’s happening, but one of the theories out there is that EMF is strengthening mold. I don’t know if you ever heard that theory, and I don’t… Dr. Deb Muth 00:24:13 I have. Bob Miller 00:24:14 I’m not claiming it’s true, but it’s an interesting theory. Then even, you know, your black mold from water-damaged buildings. Then our air pollution is getting worse. We’re getting more toxic metals. Dr. Deb Muth 00:24:26 You know, if we have a… Bob Miller 00:24:27 You know, we’re gonna look back someday and say, what were we thinking, smearing aluminum into our armpits? The, what were we doing putting mercury in our teeth? Then, you know, glyphosate. When I was a kid, there was no glyphosate. So, all of these herbicides and pesticides. Polychlorinated biphenols, And then EMF. So, we love our cell phones, you know, and I think unless you, or in the middle of the desert, or down in a cave, you’re being exposed to EMF somewhere. So, you know, we have our cell phones with us, we have, We have Wi-Fi, the towers are everywhere. And we don’t know long-term, but we may find that this can… this creates some inflammation. And I don’t know if you get any folks, but do you have any folks that have… are they EMF sensitive? Dr. Deb Muth 00:25:16 Oh yeah, we have a whole bunch of them. Bob Miller 00:25:18 Yeah, and then if you have any TBIs, So, plenty of things here. that will stimulate into the microglia, M1. Now, you could say, well. We’re all pretty much exposed to the same thing. Why do some people get hit harder than others? So here’s where we’re gonna start. There’s an enzyme called Nrf2 and RF2. And Nrf2 is the enzyme that senses when there’s inflammation. And turns on hundreds of anti-inflammatory enzymes. We’ll show when we do the demo, you can have genetic weakness on NERF2. And NERF2 inhibits and slows down microglia M1. supports M2. Now, if it’s not complicated enough, there’s an enzyme called KEEP1. And KEEP1 inhibits NRF2. And you can actually have gain of function on keep 1, that makes Keap 1 stronger. So… A lot of the people who land on my doorstep So… A lot of the people who land on my doorstep Both parents gave a mutation on KEEP1, making it overactive. Both parents gave a mutation on KEEP1, making it overactive. Dr. Deb Muth 00:26:31 Hmm. Dr. Deb Muth 00:26:31 Hmm. Bob Miller 00:26:32 Suppressing Nrf2, nerve 2 might be weak. So, nobody’s putting the brakes on, M1. And by the same token, Nerve 2 supports M2. Then there’s a process called mTOR and autophagy. mTOR stands for mammalian tard of rapamycin, the growth of new cells. And then autophagy, taking our dead cells and recycling them. We need a balance between the two of them. If we didn’t have mTOR, the sperm and the egg would never become the baby, the baby would never become the adult, we wouldn’t make new cells. But our cells are constantly, you know, the old cells dying off. Autophagy is where we take that debris from the cell and recycle it, just like a farmer Plows the crop under at the end of the year. The dead plant then becomes the fuel for the spring, your dead cell becomes the fuel for the spring, and that’s autophagy. So we’re gonna look back someday and say, what were we thinking? We give our animals growth hormones so they get fatter faster. Oh my. So, we consume those animals, and inventory runs faster. Now, for anybody who’s, You know, maybe above 40, 45 years old. Think back when you were 12, and what did girls look like? They were primarily flat-chested little girls. Now they look like 16-year-olds. Because environmentally, we’re jacking up mTOR. So, mTOR stimulates microglia M1, suppresses microglia M2. Probably 80% of the folks we visit with. This is the part of the problem. NRF2 is weak. mTOR is strong. Environmental factors come along. And this guy gets carried away. He doesn’t do that burst and move back. Stays here. We’re calling that How environmental factors create a locked-in, pro-inflammatory. and neurotoxic phenotype. In other words, once it starts, it just keeps… Feeding upon itself. Alright, so what happens now when microglia is overactive. it triggers these 3 enzymes, TNFA, N of kappa B, And interleukin-6. Each one of these can have genetics that make them run stronger. Then it stimulates an enzyme called NLRP3, Which makes what are called inflammasomes. Now, guess what inflammasomes can be? Your best friend or your worst enemy? Because they will, if you’ve got, again, a virus or bacteria, or possibly even some bad cells in the body. They will zap them. Well, that’s good. Unless it’s overactive. Unless it’s overactive. And then what it does, through interleukin-1 beta, makes excess glutamate. And then what it does, through interleukin-1 beta, makes excess glutamate. Anxiety, gut inflammation, OCD, ADD, autism. And, you know, glutamate, we’ll talk about that a little bit, but glutamate makes you intelligent, highly motivated go-getter. but can also be excitatory. And then, look what it does. Let’s see, do I have the drawing tool here? Yes, I do. Okay. So, it comes down through here, Makes the glutamate. Comes back up through here. through the ADORA 2A enzyme, Then we’ve got a feedback loop that feeds upon itself. Then, through interleukin-18, we make histamine. and mast cells. And then through histamine receptor site number 1, we come back and spin it. And now you’ve just got this spinning feedback loop. So, the glutamate will make you anxious, the histamine will give you allergies and make you anxious. And you’re allergic to everything, and you’re feeling horrible. Now, it doesn’t end there, Dr. Dad. It then goes on to make something called gast dermins that creates pyroptosis, where it actually starts punching a hole in the cell membrane. And you’re only going to be as healthy as your cells are. Just a little background. You know, we’re made up of trillions of cells, and each one of them has what’s called a lipid bilayer, made from lipids, which comes from fats. And you’re only going to be as healthy as those membranes are. So that’s why we coined an interesting phrase. Cellular CPR. Construct the cell. Protect the cell. And restore the cell membrane. And we believe that’s going to be revolutionary in the functional medicine world. So… It’s not hard to figure out that if you start punching holes in the cell membrane, that’s not a good thing, okay? Bob Miller 00:31:22 Now… There’s an interesting molecule called NAD. Thicotide adenoside dinucleotide. And anybody who’s in the, you know, listening to the health podcasts and things, they’re… They’re, they’re learning about NAD. And I’m going to show you a chart later, all the good things that NAD does, but For the most part, it helps what’s called sirtuins. And sirtuins are quite interesting. If anybody’s looking at longevity. The sirtuins is where they’re looking at.Because sirtuins turn on good things. Turn off bad things. And I’ll show some charts on that later. So for right here, this sirtuin uses NAD, to slow down NF-kappa-B. CERT 2 uses NAD to slow down an ORP3. So, if we’ve got genetic weakness on these, or we don’t have enough NAD, We don’t hold this pathway back. Make sense? Dr. Deb Muth 00:32:24 Yeah, makes perfect sense. Bob Miller 00:32:25 Now, I’ll show this a little bit later. So, people are like, oh, well, I’m gonna start taking some NAD. Dr. Deb Muth 00:32:31 Right. Bob Miller 00:32:32 And there’s functional doctors who give NAD intravenous. It was just this morning, I was talking to a woman who said, Oh my gosh. I went and got intravenous NAD, and it took me a month to recover from that. Dr. Deb Muth 00:32:45 Hmm. Bob Miller 00:32:46 what happens is, and I’ll show this in a little more detail, there’s an enzyme called CD38, that’s stimulated by NF-kappa-B. And it takes NAD, To make intracellular calcium. that stimulates NLRP3 and actually makes things worse. So, if we have this guy upregulated, and I’ll show a chart what does that. taking NAD will make you worse. Again, when I go into the software, I’ll show you that whole pathway, so… I would encourage people, you know, just don’t go out and start taking massive amounts of NAD, you know, stick your toe in the water, see how you do. Because everything you’ve heard about, how good it is, is true, unless this guy says, oh, thank you very much, let me make more inflammation. Now, this might be part of our innate immune system, that if we have some pathogen that’s gonna kill us. By golly, we want that to happen. But if this is happening by environmental factors, Then it’s detrimental. So the immune system that protected us a thousand years ago now might be turning on us because of the environmental factors that we showed earlier. All right. Then there’s an enzyme called PARP that’s NAD-dependent, and that actually repairs strain breaks in your DNA. Now, the next thing that happens… is there’s an enzyme called NADPH oxidase that gets stimulated. and something called INOS. Now, I’m sure most people know about nitric oxide. It’s a gas that dilates your blood vessels. That’s why sometimes they’ll even give people drugs, nitroglycerin, to boost their nitric oxide. That’s why people are doing beetroots and other things to boost their nitric oxide. But there’s an OS3 enzyme that makes the nitric oxide that’s good for blood flow. But there’s an INOS That makes nitric oxide to kill pathogens. probably might be the third or fourth time I’ve said this. That’s a good thing, unless it isn’t. So, if it’s killing some pathogen, great. It was just misfiring. it combines… With superoxide that’s made by this enzyme, and makes something called peroxynitrite, which is one nasty free radical that chews you up and spits you out. So, the NOx enzyme, NADPH oxidase, uses NADPH, To make this free radical called superoxide. If we have time, we’ll get into it. NADPH is what your body needs to recycle your antioxidants.So, I coined the phrase, the NADPH steel. Where the NOX enzyme takes this very important NADPH, And rather than being useful, makes superoxide. Now, again, is that fine if you’ve got some bacteria to kill? Of course. But if it’s just chronically running, it’s just making all this chronic inflammation. Then it makes something called hydrogen peroxide. And we need to clear hydrogen peroxide by 3 enzymes, catalase, thyroid reduction. And glutathione peroxidase. If we have genetic issues on here, or we don’t have the cofactors. There’s something called the Fenton reaction, discovered in 1895 by Dr. Fenton. Where hydrogen peroxide combines with iron to make what are called hydroxyl radicals. And guess what they do? They create lipid peroxides, That damages your cell membranes. Now, again, the body’s pretty darn amazing. We have glutathione, And here’s where your body’s taking glutathione and recycling it. But look who’s needed to recycle it. NADPH. So, if this guy up here is chewing it up, We don’t recycle our glutathione. And then an enzyme called glufon peroxidase 4, Takes this damaged lipid and repairs it. So, here we’ve got this protecting, we want to protect it by not having this happen. But then we also need this guy to do the restoration. So, there’s a lot that can go wrong in here, Dr. Deb. Dr. Deb Muth 00:37:07 There’s a lot that could go wrong. And I can imagine some of my listeners are thinking that lipid peroxidase, is that the same thing as what they’re thinking of when we talk about lipids and cholesterol? Is that the same process that’s happening there? Bob Miller 00:37:22 Well, no, no, the lipids can be used to make cholesterol, but here we’re talking about where they’re going to build the cell membrane. And they’re being… and they’re being, destroyed. If anybody would like to see a visual representation of this, just go on YouTube. And type in, ferrooptosis Animation. cool little video, it’s about 3 minutes long, and it shows the lipids coming over, being oxidized, and now GPX4 fixes them, so… YouTube, Pharaoptosis Animation, cute little video. It’s just that really… Shows vividly what we’re… what we’re talking about here. Now, this is… Dr. Deb Muth 00:37:59 And so this is very common, too. Like, a lot of people do hydrogen peroxide IVs. Dr. Deb Muth 00:38:04 And so, if somebody doesn’t know their genetics, they could have a problem with doing those, just like they could doing the NADHIVs, correct? Bob Miller 00:38:13 Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I’ve talked to so many, you know, of course, the hydrogen peroxide kills pathogens. I mean, that’s what it does. So… but I’ve spoken to so many people that said. I had one client that said they’ve never been the same after having one hydrogen peroxide infusion. Dr. Deb Muth 00:38:30 Interesting. Bob Miller 00:38:31 Yeah. So… it can be… I see why people use it, because it. Bob Miller 00:38:36 pathogens, But on the other hand. And now’s a good time to speak about… I don’t have it on here, but there’s a, there’s an enzyme called the HFE gene. And that is what causes you to absorb iron. And there’s mutations in it that cause something called hemochromatosis. Were you overabsorb iron? Now, true hemochromatosis is when both parents give you a mutation. But there’s now growing evidence even a heterozygous can cause a little bit more iron absorption, not to the human chromatosis point, but overabsorption. So, if you overabsorb iron, And you have too much hydrogen peroxide that’s not cleared, All kinds of inflammation. Now, what’s happened is sometimes this inflammation Will damage the red blood cells. And some well-meaning doctor says, oh, you need some iron. And they take iron and it makes it worse. So, can’t tell you how many people I’ve said, you’ve got the overabsorption of iron, and they say, well, that can’t be right, because I’m low in iron. Well, that could be because it’s being chewed up here. Dr. Deb Muth 00:39:40 Sure. GPX1 and TXN turn it into, to water. The, catalase turns it into water and oxygen. Dr. Deb Muth 00:39:58 Now, I see a lot of my clients who have mutations or SNPs on that GPX gene, on that glutathione gene. And they really struggle to clear a lot of their toxins. Bob Miller 00:40:12 Sure. Dr. Deb Muth 00:40:14 Yeah, absolutely. Well, GPX4. Bob Miller 00:40:18 is what, repairs, but you can see GPX1 Is what uses glutathione. To turn hydrogen peroxide. So, but it all depends upon having enough glutathione. Dr. Deb Muth 00:40:30 Yeah. Bob Miller 00:40:31 Well, guess who controls making a glutathione? Dr. Deb Muth 00:40:34 Nerf 2. Bob Miller 00:40:37 So, if you have a keep one weakness, or strength to two… I’m sorry, keep one is too strong. Nrf2 is too weak. You don’t make glutathione. So, when a lot of people do that, it’s like, well, I’m gonna take glutathione. Dr. Deb Muth 00:40:51 Right. Bob Miller 00:40:52 And some do great, and some do poorly. You know, because… and I’ll show this on one of the other charts. You can see here that the, The glutathione has to be recycled. And if we don’t recycle it, it actually turns into superoxide free radical. So… NADPH are the cofactors, For taking the oxidi… here’s oxidized glutathione, here’s reduced. So, this is a good glutathione. After it does its job, you can see it becomes oxidized.We need to recycle it. Well, if we have weakness on the enzyme that does that, or a weakness in Nrf2, or not enough NADPH. The oxidized glutathione never gets recycled. So, I’ve talked to a lot of people who said, oh, glutathione made me so sick, and say, well. Dr. Deb Muth 00:41:43 Yeah. Bob Miller 00:41:44 You need it, but you need to recycle it. Dr. Deb Muth 00:41:46 Can you speak for just a brief moment, too, about MTHFR? That is a very popular gene, it’s all over social media as the major gene, but can you speak to a little bit about that, and how that fits into this whole process of things? Because it is just such a small piece. Dr. Deb Muth 00:42:04 understanding genetics. Bob Miller 00:42:06 Yeah, to be honest, it drives me nuts. Dr. Deb Muth 00:42:08 Me too. Bob Miller 00:42:11 Alright, so… You know, there are people on social media I won’t say what I think, I’ll be kind. But… But the, And, you know, they might mean well. But they talk about, if you have MTHFR and COMT and PEMT, that’s… oh my goodness, that’s horrible, and we’ll fix that for you, and you’ll be fine. Bob Miller 00:42:36 it just irritates me to no end. And it really could get anybody who’s doing this legitimately in trouble. I mean, I’m afraid someday, you know, there might be some cracking down on this kind of nonsense. Now, to answer your question about MTHFR. Dr. Deb Muth 00:42:51 I mean, it really is, but I’ll tell you what, why don’t we hold that thought until I go to another map and I can actually… Okay. Bob Miller 00:42:56 But the real… the cliff notes is the MTHFR puts a methyl group on your folate, which is needed, but it has gotten way, way, way too much attention. And people learn they have MTHFR, and they start taking a multivitamin with methylfolate, then they take a B vitamin with methylfolate. Dr. Deb Muth 00:43:13 And they’re pushing it too hard. Bob Miller 00:43:15 Yeah. So I can’t tell you how many people I’ve helped by saying, stop it. Dr. Deb Muth 00:43:20 Yeah, take less of it. Bob Miller 00:43:21 Take less of it, yeah. So, yeah. Yeah, there’s a… If somebody, say, ranked the enzymes at their level of importance, MTHFR might be 40 or 50 on a scale of 100, you know. Keep one Nerf two. big deals. Dr. Deb Muth 00:43:40 deals. Bob Miller 00:43:41 NQO1 that I didn’t even talk about yet, NQO1, takes your, NA… your NAD goes into NADH, To make electrons for the electron transport chain. you need NQ01 to bring that back. If that’s not working, and I’ll show you on the NAD map how disastrous that can be. Now, the next piece is here, and I think You know, if you talk to any school teachers and say, if you’ve taught for more than 10 years, how are the kids today? Every one of them says, more ADD, ADHD, more autism. Just look at human beings, we’ve never been so agitated. You know, everybody, and it might be a social media thing, but people take a position on something, and if anybody doesn’t share that position, they view them as the enemy. Dr. Deb Muth 00:44:29 And it’s kind of scary what’s happening to us. Bob Miller 00:44:33 So, we can’t agree to disagree anymore. We see anybody who has a differing opinion as the enemy. And, you know, there was… there’s people that didn’t have Christmas dinners together, because they had political differences, like… Dr. Deb Muth 00:44:44 Excuse me. Bob Miller 00:44:45 can’t you put your political differences aside to have Christmas together, you know? Dr. Deb Muth 00:44:49 Right? Bob Miller 00:44:50 become that, you know, no matter what your position is, and I’m not saying anyone’s right or wrong, I’m just saying. You know, in the old days, they used to say that the Republicans and Democrats in Congress would argue policy and then go have dinner together. And now everybody’s all up in arms, angry. Dr. Deb Muth 00:45:05 Yeah. Bob Miller 00:45:06 So… There’s likely multiple reasons for that. But let me show you one of them. That, you know, to what degree this is… very important, we don’t know, but I think We’re beginning to believe this is very important. So, there’s something… there’s a neurotransmitter called GABA. And God buys the don’t worry, relax, be happy. Chill. Okay. Dr. Deb Muth 00:45:31 Nobody has enough of that anymore. Bob Miller 00:45:33 Well, yeah, you’ll be surprised what I’m gonna show you. So, let me see if I can find a, Let me see if I can find the right slide here. Let me look for it here. So, there’s something called a GABA receptor site. And here you can see… This is a neuron, and this is where you, The neuron normally is excitatory. However, there’s normally low chloride in the neuron. Dr. Deb Muth 00:46:09 Hmm. Bob Miller 00:46:10 So, GABA itself is neither relaxing. For excitatory, all GABA does, it opens up what’s called a chloride channel. And then chloride, which has a negative charge, will flow into the neuron. Follow me there? Dr. Deb Muth 00:46:26 Yep. Bob Miller 00:46:27 And as it does, it changes this from a positive charge to a negative charge, And it’s relaxing. and inhibitory. Dr. Deb Muth 00:46:34 Hmm. Bob Miller 00:46:36 Now, on the other hand, there’s enzymes called NKCC1, That will push chloride in. and KCC2 that will bring chlor… oops and bring chloride out. And then there’s a sodium channel. And, sodium has a positive charge. And glutamate will push that in. So, as long as this is happening. And GABA says, receptor sites, open, chloride goes in, Chill. However, If NKCC1 Pushes extra chloride in. KCC2 doesn’t pull it out. and GABA hits the receptor site, the GABA comes flowing out, Sodium comes in, And now it’s excitatory. So Gabba didn’t change. GABA just opened the receptor site, that’s all it does. Dr. Deb Muth 00:47:33 Yeah. Bob Miller 00:47:34 But it’s the chloride balance that’s going to determine whether this is relaxing or not. Now, these are the things that go along with when they lose that KCC2 or gain NKCC1. Pain and sensitivity, burning electrical, neuropathic pain. Normal touch hurts. Sound and light sensitivity. Tinnitus can flare. Headaches and migraines. Seizure tendency. Body jolts. Spasticity, cramps, stiffness, startle reflex. Trouble falling asleep, non-restorative sleep. Anxiety, stress, reactivity, that’s what we have now. Hyperarousal, panic-like surges, irritability, racing thoughts. Brain fog, slowed processing, working memory slip-ups. Mental fatigue. Episodes of racing hearts, sweaty palms, guts on edge. Those are all the things that happen when this GABA switch occurs. Now, here’s what happens, and this is what I’m going to be presenting at an autism conference. When you have a newborn, they need that NKCC dominant to develop. By early childhood, it should… or, sorry, early adulthood. we should move over to the KCC dominant, that’s the taking the chloride out. Nice-looking 25-year-old boys, functioning very well. However, when we get microglia M1 upregulated. Because of environmental toxins, processed foods, Tylenol, aluminum. they stay in NKCC1 dominant, and there’s ADD, ADHD, Autism, the whole spectrum. because… They’ve not moved over to the… They’ve not moved over to the KCC2. And again, this is caused by… Environmental factors. Stimulating the microglia. And then, interleukin-1, interleukin-18 weakens KCC2, interleukin-1 beta, Strengthens NKCC1. high chloride. We open up the chloride channel, In Rebell Excitatory. So, I think when, When the pediatricians get ahold of this, they’re going to be very excited to know that This could be why we’re seeing such a rise, and not just autism, but ADD, ADHD, anxiety, the whole shit mess. Dr. Deb Muth 00:49:58 thing. Bob Miller 00:49:59 Yeah, so… and you can see NF-kappa-B stimulates that. These stimulate it, and I think that’s why everyone’s getting so anxious. Now, there’s a little bit more to it, and we’ll get into this when we look at some of the maps, but… The, the glutamate, Which is excitatory. will stimulate the NMDA receptor, make more glutamate, And glutamate will inhibit KCC2. And then we also need an astrocyte To, take both ammonia And glutamate, and… Turn them back into glutamine. And I’m going to talk to you a little bit about arachidenic acid, and if we have too much arachidenic acid. or TNFA is upregulated, that doesn’t happen. Ammonia goes up, and there may be multiple reasons for this, but this is a reason why some of the autistic kids do flapping. Dr. Deb Muth 00:50:49 Hmm. Bob Miller 00:50:50 Because they’re not clearing their ammonia. And you can tell if somebody has high ammonia by… they get that old person smell, you know. Dr. Deb Muth 00:51:00 Yup. Bob Miller 00:51:01 your vehicle cycle’s not taking out the, the ammonia. Now, last pathway here. There’s growing interest in mast cell activation. So, back here, we talked about peroxynitride. And that will stimulate mast cells, and those are white blood cells that are your best friend, unless they’re your worst enemy. Then it’ll make histamine. And there’s enzymes called histidine decarboxylase that’ll make more. Dr. Deb Muth 00:51:28 I’m sure everybody’s heard of DAO, the enzyme that degrades histamine. Yep. Bob Miller 00:51:31 We can have genetic weakness, we don’t make that. There’s an enzyme called histamine and methyltransferase, That, That breaks down the histamine. Then if we don’t do that, it’ll get stuck in the histamine receptor site. And then it’ll make something called, renin. Which will cause angiotensinogen to turn into angiotensin. One, that turns into angiotensin II,And that’s where people make aldosterone, where they’ll get the, The swollen ankles and high blood pressure. But interestingly, there’s an enzyme called ACE2, that takes this guy and turns it into angiotensin 1-7, Which is anti-inflammatory and also inhibits… TNFA. Now, you can have weakness on ACE2, But… and anybody’s saying, that sounds familiar? Dr. Deb Muth 00:52:25 That’s where COVID comes in, using ACE2. Bob Miller 00:52:28 And now we just found there’s literature that if you get COVID long enough, it can actually make ACE2 not be able to work as well. So look what it does. It comes down here, stimulates the NADPH oxidase, More superoxide. More peroxynitrite. And we’re on a cycle here. We’ve actually named this the Home Cycle Hypothesis, the proposed feed-forward loop. That just keeps feeding on itself. All being caused by… Primarily, The environmental factors. But hitting those who have genetic weakness the hardest. That’s why. Dr. Deb Muth 00:53:08 To the people. Bob Miller 00:53:09 Don’t live in a moldy house. One person is sick as can be, and the other person says, well, you must be imagining things, because I don’t feel anything. Dr. Deb Muth Yeah. Same thing with long haul, right? Two people can both get sick, one gets sick and never seems to recover, and somebody else gets sick, and they have absolutely no problems with it at all. Bob Miller 00:53:30 Sure. Well, think about it, if you get COVID, and ACE2 is weak, and some of this other stuff is going on. This thing just starts feeding upon itself. Dr. Deb Muth 00:53:38 Keep creating more inflammation, more complications, nothing’s calming down. Bob Miller 00:53:43 Yeah. Now, you, you ask about, MTHFR. So, this is the, this is the, the software called Functional Genomic Analysis. There’s a demo report we have. So, let’s talk a little bit about, MTHFR. So, we actually have a map called a methylation map. Now, what happens is, when you do your saliva test, you, you know, you spit, you put some saliva. in a collection kit, goes to a lab, takes out the DNA data, sends it to the computer, and now you can actually see it visually. Okay. So, it’s gonna take a second for this, data to load up, it’s, and each of these Circles, each of these ovals, is an enzyme. And the data gets loaded up to see where it is. So, until it gets loaded up here, I didn’t preload this. There it goes. So… The primary thing about methylation is There’s a nasty substance called homocysteine that, if it’s too high, can really be detrimental. The body takes methylfolate, and combines with methyl B12, To bring this back up to methionine. And then through the MAT genes, we make SAMI, S-adml methionine. Which is involved in so many processes. Then after it does its thing, it turns back into homocysteine. And this thing needs to keep spinning around. That’s why, you know, it’s a good idea to keep homocysteine at, do you have a number that you’d like? 7, 8? What do you like for a number? Dr. Deb Muth 00:55:24 Yeah, I like mine below 7. Bob Miller 00:55:26 Yeah. So if the homocysteine goes too high. It, caused all kinds of problems. So, here’s where you ask about the MTHFR. So, here you can see on this individual. I click on MTHFR, and you can see it comes up here, here’s the C677. And you can see here where it says, variants. I’ll… I’ll draw in case somebody’s having a hard time seeing that. So, you can see there’s nothing in there. That means there’s no genetic mutations. If one parent would have given a mutation, there’d be a 1. If both parents did, there’d be a 2. Now, here’s why Yes, methylation is important, I’m not saying it isn’t important, but look at this MTHFRC677. In my software. Only 42.5% of the population does not have a mutation. 44.7% have won. 12.9 have 2. So, this isn’t some rare, oh my god, I’m gonna die… Kind of thing, yeah. Dr. Deb Muth 00:56:27 Right. Bob Miller 00:56:28 So, And then what happens is that, and again, I’m not dismissing methylation, I… we could do a whole show on methylation. Bob Miller 00:56:36 get it. But I think that what people are doing is they’re, they’re learning about MTHFR, they get it measured, they panic. They start taking massive amounts of methylfolate, which many times is to their detriment. Dr. Deb Muth 00:56:50 Well, it’s… and isn’t it true, too, with MTHFR, like, you have to also look at MTR, MTRR, and the more we stack up of those, the more complicated than MTHFR can be. It’s not… it’s not as simple as just saying MTHFR 677 versus 1298. It’s more complex than that, kind of like what you’ve already shown with some of the other things. There’s more to it than just that one little sliver. Bob Miller 00:57:17 Oh, sure, well, let’s take a look. So, remember I said there’s a cofactor? One of the cofactors is called FAD. Just a Bob Miller observation, that’s all. But when people have trouble with their riboflavin and they don’t have enough FAD, They’re doing much worse than people who have just a C677. So, right here, you could have perfect C677th. And if you don’t have the cofactor, it’s not gonna work, okay? Dr. Deb Muth 00:57:48 And as you said, there’s an MTR enzyme. Bob Miller 00:57:51 that takes methylfolate and methyl B12, to spin it around. So, here on this individual. here’s your… here’s your B vitamins, or I’m sorry, your B12s. There’s an enzyme called TCN1 that takes it from the stomach into the blood. Then there’s other enzymes that take it from the blood into the tissue. And if you’re having trouble here. Well, then you’re not going to have this working, so… Even if you don’t have MTHFR, And you have MTR, like this, no, I’m sorry, this person doesn’t. But they have the MTRR, and then they don’t have enough B12, this isn’t gonna work, aside from that. And then there’s a middle pathway. And then there’s enzymes called the MAT1. they take the methionine to the salmon. If that’s not working, we stick… we get stuck in methionine. So, it’s, it’s not just an MTHFR. And then, one of the things that people forget about. is through these CBS enzymes and CTH, We make cysteine, which is needed to make glutathione. The master antioxidant. So, it really is that… I call it the, The 3D chess game played underwater. Dr. Deb Muth 00:59:07 It really is. I mean, I see people who have CVS, COMT, glutathione, MGHFR genes. And some of them function just fine. Like, they have Like, I look at this person and I’m like, oh my gosh, I don’t know how they’re functioning because they’re double mutated on so many pathways, but yet they don’t have a lot of symptoms, they don’t have a lot of complications. Somehow their body has figured out a way to adapt to what it has so it can stay alive and it can function at a high functioning level. Bob Miller 00:59:36 Yeah, and they may be, you know, eating right? Yeah. Staying out of a moldy house. reducing stress. So, it’s diet, it’s stress, it’s genetics, environmental factors. So, yeah, we can’t just say somebody’s gonna be good or somebody’s gonna be bad. You know, some people get scared, oh, I got all these, it’s like, well… Bob Miller 00:59:56 Are you living in a moldy house? You know, and if you live in a moldy house and your glucuronidation pathway doesn’t do well, or if you’re, you know, a smoker, or you’re constantly eating junk food, I mean, all. Bob Miller 01:00:07 things come together. Although, you know, when we focus on genetics, we’re well aware that this is just a piece of it. You know, you could have identical twins, Genetically, and if one… Is exposed to mold and smokes and drinks and stressed out. They’re gonna be a whole lot sicker than their sibling. Bob Miller 01:00:28 Yep. Dr. Deb Muth 01:00:29 Yeah, it’s that concept of taking twins, and one gets raced with one family, and one gets raced with another family, and they don’t have the same… problems that… that each other have, you know? It’s a very unique situation, we don’t think about that enough. Bob Miller 01:00:44 Alright, so again, genetics loads the gun, environment pulls the trigger. So, if you’ve got a loaded gun, but you don’t have the triggers, you’re okay. Dr. Deb Muth 01:00:53 Yeah. Bob Miller 01:00:54 Yeah. So, remember I said I was going to talk about NAD? So, here’s NAD, and what it does, it turns into NADH. And what NADH does, it, Comes down this pathway, what’s called the electron transport chain. And that makes your ATP, that’s your energy. So, if this wasn’t working, we wouldn’t be alive, because we wouldn’t have energy. So it donates an electron, that’s why it’s called electron transport chain. So, we need NAD, To make this, to make the energy. But remember I said that NQ01, this would probably be, like, on my top 10 list of… Bob Miller 01:01:36 Much more important than MTHFR. This one takes NADH back to NAD. If we’re stuck over here, We’re low in this NAD+, But what happens is, NQO1 also provides CoQ10. And CoQ10 Is what’s needed for the electron transport chain to flow. So if we get too many electrons up here. And they don’t turn them into energy. They make a nasty free radical called superoxide. Okay. Now, NAD plus also makes NADPH, And that is needed. Remember I said we need to recycle our antioxidants. So, if we have a problem with FAD from riboflavin. Yeah, we don’t have enough NADPH, Glutathione’s not getting recycled, and you’re gonna be inflamed. And you take glutathione, you’ll feel worse. There’s another enzyme called thimoredoxin. Same thing, needs NADPH and FAD. And same way with your nitric oxide, there’s an enzyme called NOS3, That makes the nitric oxide that dilates your blood vessels. And if we don’t have enough NADPH or fat, You’re gonna make superoxide. Rather than nitric oxide. Now, remember

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Ryan joins us this week to head back to the pond for another episode of The Way Home. ABOUT: THE WAY HOME (SEASON 4 EPISODE 6) Elliot becomes engrossed with uncovering more of his mother's secret history and recruits Kat's help, while Jacob reacclimatizes to life in Port Haven. AIR DATE & NETWORK FOR: THE WAY HOME (SEASON 4 EPISODE 6) May 24, 2026 | Hallmark Channel CAST & CREW OF: THE WAY HOME (SEASON 4 EPISODE 6) Chyler Leigh as Kat Landry Evan Williams as Elliot Augustine Sadie Laflamme as Alice Dhawan Andie MacDowell as Del Landry BRAN'S THE WAY HOME (SEASON 4 EPISODE 6) SYNOPSIS Jacob is back out on horseback, just like the good old days. He goes to see his friend Danny and is like, “Sorry I was gone for a while, but I'm here now and ready to help.” Meanwhile, Elliot is going full conspiracy mode, reading every article he can find. Kat keeps trying to get ahold of him to see if he's coming to dinner, but he's too busy printing copies of important archives. He eventually shows up, completely zonked, and leaves pretty quickly. Things are still awkward between Jacob and Del, and Kat encourages him to talk to her. Then Jacob randomly brings up those threatening letters that I had completely forgotten about. Kat talks with Del about her loss back in 1979, and they have a really sweet heart-to-heart. Later, Del goes outside to talk to her horse…and the horse starts acting weird. Makes you wonder. Jacob meets Max, but the conversation gets cut short when he sees the mysterious girl from the bar walking past the window. He follows her to the park, where she introduces herself as Abby. Turns out both of their families are from the area. They head back together, and that's when Jacob realizes Abby is Max's sister. She finds out he's Jacob Landry, and when he learns she's Abby Goodwin, she's basically like, “Okay…I'm outta here.” Kat goes to check on Elliot, and he suddenly kisses her BIG TIME. She also spots the copied archives, but Elliot gets weird and makes up excuses about why he has them. He suspects his mom may have been a fortune teller back in the 1920s, and Kat remembers hearing stories about one. They find a flyer advertising an upcoming fortune-telling event that hasn't happened yet, so naturally they decide they're jumping back together. Max surprises Alice with a plaque on “their table,” but yeah, they're totally just friends. Del tries talking to the horse again, but this time it charges at her. Jacob offers to help, but Del snaps that she'll just get attached and then he'll leave again. Starting to think she's not really talking about the horse anymore. Kat and Elliot make it to the carnival in the past. The pond is ponding. Alice runs into KC again. She's like, “Why are you here?” KC responds, “I don't know. Pond be ponding.” Alice immediately asks, “Am I your mom? Do I marry Max?” KC refuses to answer directly but says, “Good questions. Follow your gut and you'll have no regrets.” Kat and Elliot search through carnival tents looking for Elliot's mom. Kat spots the Auggie boys and Elliot follows them while Kat chases after someone she thinks might be Tessa. Naturally, they lose each other. The Auggie boys end up capturing Elliot. Luckily, Elliot manages to beat them up himself, but then Cliff shows up and arrests the boys. Kat and Elliot reunite and run into Fern, who urgently tells them to leave. Then they discover Cliff let the Auggie boys go free because, apparently, money talks. Back in the present, Del keeps working with the horse, and it finally starts trusting her again while Jacob watches from a distance. Kat and Elliot finally locate the fortune teller's tent. A huge crowd gathers, including basically everyone they know from the 1920s storyline. The fortune teller walks onstage and…I still honestly don't know if it's Elliot's mom. She calls Kat onstage and reads her palm, telling her she's a time traveler and that she's there to rescue her. Then “Tessa” asks Kat to meet her backstage. But before they can actually talk, the Auggie boys kidnap her. Kat realizes they're probably taking her to the shipping docks. Jacob also runs into KC, who refuses to explain much about who they really are besides saying their name is “just a name.” Then Abby shows up, and Jacob is basically like, “I think fate brought us together.” Kat and Elliot track the Auggie boys to the docks and see them loading Tessa onto a ship while saying, “Capone is gonna love this.” Alice tells Max she doesn't want to leave, and he completely freaks out on her. Jacob finally tells Del that he's staying. And then, at the very end, Kat rushes in to stop the Auggie boys…only to discover that Tessa is actually the ringleader. Elliot runs up yelling, “Mom!” and Tessa immediately makes sure he gets knocked out. Watch the show on Youtube - www.deckthehallmark.com/youtubeInterested in advertising on the show? Email bran@deckthehallmark.com Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Fantasy Baseball Live! – May 24, 2026Segments 1 and 2 – Review the weekend gamesAdditional Notes:1.With the struggles of Steven Kwan this season, Travis Bazzana has been moved to the leadoff spot.a.What is your assessment of him so far this season?b.When do we pull the trigger on Steven Kwan and throw him on the waiver wire – he's hitting .199 with 1 home run and 2 SB. Granted, he also has a .224 BABIP, so I would expect a correction. But the xERA is still only .223. Yikes!2.Kevin Alcantara is getting another shot. He can't hit, but there is speed and power. Your thoughts.a.BTW, quietly Spencer Jones was demoted last week. The fanfare of a demotion is never the same as that of a promotion.3.So it's not Franklin Arias at shortstop, the Red Sox are turning to Marcelo Mayer and his .216 batting average and .286 OBP. a.I really missed on this one. The bat speed is clearly there – ranking in the top quartile of the leagues, but his 87 mph EV and 9% of loft is making him an easy out. Makes great contact, it's just weak.i.Your thoughts?4.Gerrit Cole returned and the velo was spot on. The swing miss of his secondary stuff was not quite there but overall he looked good.a.Your thoughts?5.Cristopher Sanchez has pitched 37.2 of scoreless innings. How is that possible? He's also pitching extremely deep into games. Just dominant.6.Jonah Tong quietly got the call but it appears he will pitch out of the bullpen.a.Any interest?7.Taj Bradley is back, touching 100 mph and shoving it. On Saturday, he pitched 5 innings of one run ball, striking out 7.8.Zack Wheeler has been dominant since returning from TOS. I thought pitchers didn't come back very well from that? Segment 3 – Waiver WireSegment 4 – Closer ReportClose

Ryan joins us this week to head back to the pond for another episode of The Way Home. ABOUT: THE WAY HOME (SEASON 4 EPISODE 4) When Nick arrives back in Port Haven, Del throws a party like old times. Alice has to keep her distance from Young Colton and Del, but tries to learn more. AIR DATE & NETWORK FOR: THE WAY HOME (SEASON 4 EPISODE 4) May 10, 2026 | Hallmark Channel CAST & CREW OF: THE WAY HOME (SEASON 4 EPISODE 4) Chyler Leigh as Kat Landry Evan Williams as Elliot Augustine Sadie Laflamme as Alice Dhawan Andie MacDowell as Del Landry BRAN'S THE WAY HOME (SEASON 4 EPISODE 4) SYNOPSIS Jacob is busy working at a bar as a bartender. This guy and gal come in to order an espresso martini. Jacob is like we don't do that, we're old school. After they leave, the ghost of Thomas asks him how long he's going to hide for. Alice and Elliot are talking about how Kat is still not home. He catches her up to speed about how his mom did come back at least long enough to write a letter. Just then, Nick comes in! What up old Nick! He's moving back to Port Haven! Him and Claire are moving home. Sam asks Del if she's considered his offer to move in. She says I'm not ready. I want to put that idea on pause. She seems shocked by how cool he is with that. Kat is still behind bars. Cliff shows up and is like alright, spill. Who are you? No ID, no nothing. She doesn't have time to spill before Fern shows up. Nick tells Del that he wants to buy Colton's boat and isn't gonna give up without a fight! Nick's biological father Julian shows up and he takes quite the liking to Del. Do I smell a season 4 love triangle?! Kat questions Fern about Tainted Love again and Fern insists that she's known that song for ages and still doesn't know no Tessa. She also tells Kat that she's the one who drugged her. It was the only way to protect her from the Augustine boys. For some reason, they have it out for her. Kat says well you know they're working for your fiancé Grayson. Fern doesn't believe that. Kat jumps in the pond, both of them upset with each other. Kat gets home and while talking with Elliot and Alice while looking at the bullet. She notices some engraving on it that match engravings on Grayson's gun. She is more convinced than ever that Grayson is a bootlegger. Alice and Kat are talking with Del and she's telling them how she and Colton used to throw the best parties before Alice was born. Del is like maybe we should throw a good ol' party, in honor of Nick's homecoming. Del then gets a knock on the door - there is a flower delivery...from Julian. Kat continues to try to contact Jacob but he still won't answer. So she gets back to looking at Evelyn's old files. She wants to learn more about who Grayson really is, not just what the town's history books say. Alice jumped back in the pond and sees Tessa and Vic showing up for one of Del & Colton's parties. She hears them talk about how they're getting married. Tessa sees Alice looking on from behind a tree. Alice asks her to not tell anyone that she was there or else she'll tell everyone about how she took money from Coyle's that one day. Kat finds a marriage certificate of Grayson's to someone in 1926, but it's not Fern. She also finds out that Grayson had a sister who died young. Alice can't stop herself from sneaking into the house to watch the party. Evelyn gives Del some wine but she doesn't drink it, so she suspects Del must be pregnant. In the present, it's party time! Sam finds out that Julian sent flowers and is like oh hmmm that's interesting. Back in the '80s, Fern comes in and sees Tessa looking at the family almanac and freaks out. She's like YOU'LL NEVER BE FAMILY! Colton is like she's marrying an Augustine. Fern storms off. Everyone is like wtf was that about. In the present, Kat announces to the party that she's closing down the newspaper. She is going to focus on writing a history of Port Haven. Then Julian recites some Shakespeare. Alice walks outside and tries to talk to Fern who is still freaking out. Del comes out and tells her to go to bed and then throws her wine out. Alice overhears Colton come out and ask how they're BOTH doing! They talk about waiting to tell people since it had been such a journey but Colton is convinced 1979 is their year. Alice is like uh oh...knowing that Kat wasn't born in '79. Alice runs back home and gives present day Del a big hug. There's a phone call. It's Jacob, but when she hears singing and laughing in the background, he hangs up. He tells the ghost of Thomas that they're happy, they don't need him. Later that night, Alice tells Kat about how Del was pregnant in 1979. This is news to Alice. The next day, Del and Sam talk. She tells him that he seems too chill with Julian's attention towards her. Makes her feel like he doesn't care about her. She wonders if their relationship is just a distraction from the Jacob situation. When he says if that's what she wants, she's like see you don't fight for us. He says he doesn't want to have to wonder what's going on with her. He doesn't want mystery, he wants her. Elliot surprises Jacob and asks him what's up and asks him to come home and tells him that he's being dumb. He tells Elliot to leave. Alice tells Kat more about the Fern freaking out thing and she figures out that the handwriting for 1800's Jacob's entry is the same handwriting as Tessa's letter to Elliot. AND it's the same for Fern's birth entry. The hypothesis is that Tessa time traveled back to the 1800's with Griff but he left her there which is why she was there in the '20s. They need someone from Tessa's era to come and rescue her. So Kat decides to jump again and decides to bring Nick with her to make sure she's safe. The episode ends with her on horseback. She thinks she sees Colton walking into the woods, so she tries to get her horse to follow. But the horse is freaking out heading into the woods and bucks her off and she's knocked out. Watch the show on Youtube - www.deckthehallmark.com/youtubeInterested in advertising on the show? Email bran@deckthehallmark.com Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

1. Spirit Airlines Bailout Debate A proposed U.S. government bailout of Spirit Airlines ($500 million for ~90% ownership) was considered but ultimately rejected. Government should not own or run private companies. Bailouts are seen as wasteful and ineffective (compared to “burning money” metaphor). Argument that free-market capitalism is more effective than government control. 2. Impact of Spirit Airlines Collapse Emphasis on human consequences, especially job losses. A retired pilot missed his final flight due to shutdown. Received a symbolic sendoff from Southwest Airlines—highlighting solidarity and empathy within the industry. Displaced workers may find jobs elsewhere, but hardship remains. 3. Tucker Carlson He spreads misinformation and makes controversial or extreme statements. Allegations that he: Attacks political figures (especially Ted Cruz). Promotes or normalizes extremist views. Makes contradictory or false claims in interviews. His credibility and audience influence are declining. Heated exchange regarding: Claims of violence and moral responsibility by public officials. Comparisons involving extremism (Nazism, Holocaust references). Sympathizes with authoritarian regimes or controversial figures. Criticizes U.S. policies and capitalism. Promotes anti-American or antisemitic narratives. 6. Pramila Jayapal and Cuban Policy Rep. Pramila Jayapal: Accused of supporting Cuba’s government by encouraging efforts to supply oil. Criticized for: Calling U.S. actions “illegal” or harmful. Describing actions against Venezuela’s Maduro as “kidnapping.” Opposing viewpoint: Siding with communist regimes over U.S. interests. 7. Anti-Communism Argument Major ideological stance: Communism is historically destructive (oppression, poverty, violence). Personal anecdote: Family experience with Cuban communism used to reinforce position. Vision proposed: A post-communist Cuba with: Free markets U.S. alignment Economic investment and tourism growth Please Hit Subscribe to this podcast Right Now. Also Please Subscribe to the 47 Morning Update with Ben Ferguson and The Ben Ferguson Show Podcast Wherever You get You're Podcasts. And don't forget to follow the show on Social Media so you never miss a moment! Thanks for Listening YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@VerdictwithTedCruz/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/verdictwithtedcruz X: https://x.com/tedcruz X: https://x.com/benfergusonshowYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@VerdictwithTedCruzSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.