Voices from SA

Edgar Pieterse is the director of the African Centre for Cities (ACC)  based at the University of Cape Town. He is an urbanist trying to make sense of the sociology, politics, geography and economics of the modern African city. We discussed the often difficult relationship between city governments and national governments,  and the ongoing struggle for policy and financial control o the trajectory of cities across sub Saharan Africa.  Edgar feels it is necessary for  the social, political and economic debate at all levels to be re-imagined if cities are to fulfill their true potential as hubs of national  economic growth and social transformation.   The bulk of our discussion focused  on the Integration Syndicate project hosted by the ACC in Cape Town. The project was an attempt to encourage a different kind of thinking about the issues of urbanisation in Cape Town  and  which "explores the obstacles and solutions to social-spatial integration in the Cape Town metropolitan region."  The five provocations that came out of the sessions, and which we touch on, are relevant to many large cities on the continent. Download The Integration Syndicate book here (https://www.africancentreforcities.net/isbook/) . Edgar also had some fascinating and imaginative things to say about the South African taxi industry and how the foundations for an integrated transport infrastructure already exist.  At the heart of our discussion was the shadow the generational impact of apartheid planning casts over our cities at so many levels and that require an imaginative and multidimensional response, beyond a simple residential mix, to resolve.

Goapie Kabe grew up in Soweto, Johannesburg. A school outing to a live recording of a TV show planted a seed that eventually led her to changing  plans and studying film instead of engineering. Over the last ten years she has developed into one of South Africa's leading cinematographers. We had a great chat about the art of film-making, the role of the cinematographer in interpreting a director's vision, the importance of pre-production, her love of shooting hand-held, and always having a plan, or three when on set. We also spoke about light and framing, cameras and lenses. She loves technology and so we also spoke about the evolution of camera and lens technology. And we spoke about her role as an  inspiration to young black women wanting to break into the film industry.

Vedhant Maharaj is an architect and head of the Rebel Base Collective architecture and design studio. I recorded this interview a few weeks back and it then got put on the back-burner as I wanted to have some guests on to  look at the COVID-19 pandemic and its impact on South Africa. Please listen to the recent episodes with Michael Sachs and Prof Shabir Mahdi. Vedhant  and I chatted about a number of things including how he became an architect, the state of South African architecture, the difficulty and challenges of changing the legacy of spatial apartheid and the policy landscape of that debate. We also spoke about the evolving technology of sustainable materials and design, and touched on his masters thesis design project that confronted the challenge of infrastructural and ecological design in the political and religious context of modern India.

Prof Madhi has recently co-authored a number of articles about South Africa’s route out of lock down. So we chatted about how this might look. He emphasised the need for people to observe distancing protocols in order to slow the rate of corona virus infection. We chatted about the changing understanding of how corona virus acts on people. We also discussed the reasons behind the lock down and how some of these reason are no longer valid according to Shabir. Another issue we touched on  is  the spread of corona virus via asymptomatic carriers. Shabir is also concerned that many decisions taken by government have not been based on science.  We also discussed the global bun-fight around developing a vaccine. It is clear that we will have to live with corona virus as best we can until a vaccine is available and this process might take years. Read Shabir's latest article about South Africa's COVID-19 strategy here (https://theconversation.com/south-africas-covid-19-strategy-needs-updating-heres-why-and-how-138368) .

My guest this week is Michael Sachs, Adjunct Professor at the Southern Centre for Inequality Studies at the University of the Witwatersrand .   He has recently co-authored a number of articles looking at the impact of COVID-19 on the South African economy. The articles have not only looked at the health response to the pandemic but also suggested paths to ending the lock down.  I spoke to Michael on May 11, 2020. We had a far ranging discussion that looked at the economic impact of the pandemic on South Africa. There are tough times ahead for sure. We chatted about the role of a state that has been incapacitated over the last decade or more, we discussed the separate roles of the Treasury, the Department of Trade, Industry and Economic Development and the Reserve Bank in this crisis. Michael also suggested the  government will be forced to take some tough decisions on its role and involvement in certain sectors of the economy such as aviation and energy.

Erik Esbjörnsson has been the Africa correspondent for the Swedish daily newspaper Dagens Nyheter since 2010. He spent six years in Nairobi before moving to Johannesburg in 2016.  He had an inkling things were about to change in South Africa and Zimbabwe and wanted to be closer to the action. Over the last decade he has traveled all over the continent. His most recent reporting, before the travel ban came into effect, was from Sudan. A few months ago he tracked down his great-grandparents home in Goma while on assignment in the DRC. Of course we spent quite a bit of the podcast discussing a number of different aspects to the corona virus pandemic including the South African government's response, and the seeming breakdown in international solidarity that the pandemic has provoked. We also chatted about Erik's childhood and his path to journalism, as well as some of the highlights of his decade recording events across Africa over the last decade.

She is a PhD student at the global change institute at the University of the Witwatersrand. Her PhD is looking at the potential for diversification and scale in small scale farming. Ndoni is also the founder and CEO of Black Women in Science  registered non-profit organization which aims to deliver capacity development interventions that target young black women scientists and researchers.  In 2016 Ndoni was selected in the Top 200 Mail and Guardian Young South Africans under the education sector.  We had a good chat about the potential and possibilities of small scale farming vs large commercial farming. Ndoni pointed out some of the actions required to ensure the success of small scale farmers not only in producing a quality fruit or vegetable, but also support in access and use of technology, good governance and other aspects of building a successful business. Ndoni has been working with satellite imaging technology and so we also chatted about the use of technology in agriculture as well as the need to link farmers not only to tech, but also to researchers like herself. She suggests there is a gap that needs to be bridged.

Dr Jackie King is an aquatic ecologist specialising in fresh water, that is to say riverine/inland water systems. She is a pioneer in her field and is the winner of the 2019 Stockholm Water Prize.  Back in the early 80’s Jackie she and some her colleagues developed a new field of study  that today is called environmental flows. In essence this is a set of concepts and methods that provide stakeholders communities and governments with a set of scenarios when they plan the future of a river system.  We chatted about the need to find a balance between soft and hard engineering, and we talked about rivers. The Mekong River that runs through South-east Asia for example, and river systems such as the Okavango Delta and some of their incredible characteristics.  While she does not describe herself as an activist it is clear she is revered by many around the world for her efforts to harmonise the relationship between humans and the rivers that are so important to life on earth. Read more about Dr King and her work here (https://jackieking.co.za/) . 

This is a special edition of Voices from SA. A virtual panel discussion arranged by Africa Podfest that I moderated entitled "Radio's Place in a Podcasting World. Africa Podfest was due to take place in Nairobi 12-13 March but was postponed due to the Covid-19 pandemic. This inspired the organisers to organise a range of panel discussions including this one. "This session is about radio, which is where on demand audio came from. In light of the growing crossover between radio and podcasting, we envision a tipping point moment where there will be more interest and investment in podcasts than in radio. If podcasting is to fulfill its potential what are the practical considerations with regard to radio’s place in a growing African podcasting ecosystem which we need to address?" The panelists were: Kameel Stanley, the senior producer of The City, a podcast from USA TODAY that explores how power works in urban American. Kameel is based in St Louis, Missouri Shandukani Mulaudzi, Executive Producer of Podcasts, Children’s Radio Foundation Paula Rogo, Co-founder of Africa Podfest and owner of Kali Media. She hosts her own podcast  on women and entrepreneurship in E. Africa titled, “I Have No Idea What I’m Doing.” (https://podcasts.google.com/?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9rYWxpbWVkaWEucG9kYmVhbi5jb20vZmVlZC54bWw&hl=en-KE&ved=0CAAQ4aUDahcKEwjohoq0ycbnAhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQAQ) Thanks to the Africa Podfest organisers Paula Rogo, Josephine Karianjahi and Melissa Mbugua for all their hard work. And thanks to the panelists for a great discussion To watch all the virtual panel discussions from Africa Podfest go here (https://www.africapodcastfestival.com/virtual-sessions) . Image care of Africa Podfest  

Father Michael Lapsley was born in New Zealand, today he considers himself a citizen of the world. He moved to South Africa in 1973 to continue his training as a priest in an order of the Anglican Church. In 1976 he was sent into exile by the apartheid government. After joining the ANC he spent his time traveling the world mobilising faith communities against apartheid and ministering to South African's living in exile.  Three months after the release of Nelson Mandela he was blown up by a letter bomb sent by the Civil Cooperation Bureau, an apartheid era death squad. He lost both hands and an eye in the attack. We talked about his early work ministering to students in South Africa, his journey from pacifist to freedom fighter, the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, and the work of his organisation the Institute for Healing of Memories he founded in 1998. He spoke about how he has become a citizen of the world, his identity shaped by listening to the pain of the human family.

At the age of fourteen Obakeng won a scholarship to the prestigious Bishop's School in Cape Town and his life changed forever. Since then he has studied for his A-levels at the African Leadership Academy in Johannesburg and later this year he begins a degree in economics in the USA. He is a busy young man.  Obakeng is an advocate for access to quality education and an ethical public service. He plans to go into government once he has finished his studies as he says he has seen too many friends let down one or another but non-functioning state institutions. But what a cool young man. We chatted about the need to transform the way we think about education in South Africa, the way teach, and the role of schools in their communities.  He also spoke about the importance of involving parents education, and the importance of teachers who are inspiring and committed beyond simply teaching the curriculum. Obakeng also spoke about the experience of private schools and how that process detached him in a way from his childhood friends and experience We also spoke abut the the current political system in South Africa and the need for better civic and voter education in  so people understand better how the political system works, and how they can make it work for them.

John Clarke has been working with the Xolobeni community and the Amadiba Crisis Committee for more than a decade in the fight against proposed mining operations by Australian mining company MRC. In this episode John gives an update to the ongoing legal struggles being waged by the Xolobeni community. We also chatted about the state of the world, Jethro Tull and butterflies. John is a man with a calling and it is inspiring to hear him talk about the possibilities of finding a balance between humans, nature and technology. Become a patron and support the growth of Voices from SA here. (https://www.patreon.com/voicesfromsa)

Zubeda is a founder, and the director of the Nisaa Institute for Women's Development. The organisation has the goal of "enabling women and children to live in a world free of violence." Nisaa was formed in April 1994. She is also the Executive Head of the National Shelter Movement. In our discussion Zubeda gives a sobering and gritty picture of what it is like working on the front line of the struggle against gender and domestic violence. And we get a sense of the immense work, the thankless and extremely stressful work that is done by social workers, counselors and other members  of this vast and unsung network of NPOs and NGOs that work in this field across South Africa. What is startlingly clear is that the government response even at the most basic levels, and that of business for that matter, is sorely lacking. Go here (http://www.nisaa.org.za/) for more information about Nisaa

Bertha  is an entrepreneur with interests in the Energy, Transport, Telecommunications and Management Consulting Sectors, delivering solutions and systems for utilities. She is also the President of an NPO, "Women in Electricty and Power" that, quoting from her linkedin profile, aims “ to accelerate the participation of African Women Entrepreneurs in the full value chain of Power and Energy in Africa, and contribute towards addressing the continent’s energy poverty.” We had a great discussion about the importance of mentors in the early stages of her career, affirmative action, some of the challenges facing entrepreneurs in South Africa, and her hopes and dreams for "Women in Electricity and Power", and her belief that women can transform this and many other sectors of the economy across the continent, given the right tools and support.

This is Frank's third appearance on the podcast. Frank is a former trade unionist and I turn to him when I am looking for a fresh perspective on things.  He is incredibly well connected and has some interesting things to say about South Africa and its prospects for the future. We covered a number of areas including the state of the civil service, he reflected on his time working closely with now President Ramaphosa during the struggle against apartheid, the need for trade unions to become more engaged in the debate on economic policy, and some of the things he would do to turn the economy around. Infrastructure, housing and tourism were some of the sectors he suggested would benefit from state investment.

Richard is better know to South Africans as journalist at large for the Daily Maverick where he  writes under nom de plume Trainspotter.  He is recognized  for his acerbic wit, biting satire and razor sharp observations that have infuriated and amazed in equal measure over the last ten years. I pitched the discussion as a look at the year ahead and what 2020 night hold for South Africa and its people. Turns out quite a lot. And according to Richard there is not a lot to look forward to. At least in the short term. He says South Africa is facing multiple existential threats. We chatted about a number of things including the civil war racking the ANC, the parlous state of the main opposition parties, and the collapse of Eskom the state-owned power utility.  Our discussion did place South Africa in a global context of a post-truth, late-stage capitalism reality where norms of political behavior and activism are being re-written every day. Richard also give some background to the documentary film he has directed together with Dianne Neille, Influence, which takes an in depth look at the rise and fall of PR firm Bell Pottinger. The film will premiere at the Sundance film Festival on January 23. Read Richard on Helen Zille and the DA here (https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2019-10-25-get-out-a-gutted-da-stumbles-into-the-past/) .

I had Ebrahim on the podcast earlier this year in the build-up to the national elections. This time he is on the podcast to review some of the significant political events of 2019. We initially had the idea of looking at the elections, the Zondo Commission and South Africa and the BRICS. In the wake of a week of rolling blackouts, we were forced to discuss the state of the power utility ESKOM as a metaphor for the state of our politics. This, in turn, led to a discussion not only about corruption and mismanagement but also the role of consulting firms in the chaos at SOE's.  We spent some time as well discussing the broad failure of our political parties to work for the good for the nation and not their own welfare. Ebrahim also gives his political highlight of the year. He also does not have much hope that the Zondo Commission will lead to any high-level prosecutions.

Professor Jane Duncan is the Head of the Department of Journalism, Film and TV at the University of Johannesburg. She is one of the founders of the Media Policy and Democracy Project and the author of several books inluding "The Rise of the Securocrats" which looks at the growing role of the security services in government policy in South Africa. She has also written extensively about the so-called Fourth Industrial Revolution. She is a skeptic. We discussed a number of issues including the privatisation of public surveillance, surveillance capitalism in general and the gap between policy and technology. Prof Duncan is also keen that South African plays a more active role in spreading our freedoms to the rest of the world to ensure an internet that is open and accessible to all the citizens of the world. Read more about the Media Policy and Democracy Project here (https://www.mediaanddemocracy.com/) . Contract for the Web (https://9nrane41lq4966uwmljcfggv-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/Contract-for-the-Web-2.pdf)

Nomanzi PalesaShongwe is a filmmaker and teacher.  Her short film uNomalanga and the Witch won Best Short Film at the Durban International Film Festival (2015), and The Baobab Short Film Prize at Film Africa, UK (2016).  It has nearly 500 00 views on youtube    Nomanzi grew up in Johannesburg  She abandoned her law studies to embark on a career in film. A short film submission led to being awarded a Fulbright Scholarship and she completed a Masters of fine arts in film making at Temple University in Philadelphia. Most recently she was a lecturer at the Wits University Film School.   She met Presidents Clinton and Obama as part of different South African delegations to the USA and we chatted about the changing US attitude to the USA over the years.    We had a wide-ranging discussion that ranged from her high school years at Parktown Girls High School that straddled the early years of our democracy and the pressure to assimilate that is still being felt by many young professionals in particular today. Nomanzi also spoke about the process and aesthetics film-making and what she wants to achieve in her films. As her bio puts it she "is interested in narratives that focus on the lives of women in the context of a feminist and decolonial African filmmaking". Watch uNomalanga and the Witch here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zv5txWZD3rk) .

Muitheri Wahome has been working in the field of asset management since moving to South Africa from Kenya in 1995. She is currently writing a book about the history of asset management in South Africa. After visiting SA for the first time after the elections in 1994, Muitheri moved to South Africa from Kenya in 1995 to study for an MBA. So she has experienced the ups and downs of post-apartheid South Africa as both a Kenyan and a "new" South African and has some interesting things to say about this experience. She says it is good to take stock of how far we have come in a short time. We spoke a lot about how much has changed particularly within the field of asset management, but also that more needs to be done to transform business overall Muitheri says businesses must create an environment conducive and supportive of transformation. She talks about the importance of enabling environment that looks beyond simply ticking boxes.

Rebone Masemola is an anthropologist, a digital marketer and strategist, an activist and the founder of Woke PROJECT.  Rebone established Woke PROJECT (http://wokeproject.co.za/) as  a space for people to share  intersectional narratives and share lived experiences. She grew up with her grandparents in Limpopo before starting boarding school at the age of 12. She stumbled into anthropology be accident and we discussed how this pushed her into her career as a digital marketeer and brand strategist. Rebone did a Ted Talk a few months ago entitled "Re-imagining radical protest" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHNCpme7oIg) where she came out as an angry black woman using her anger as a weapon against toxic masculinity and the patriarchy.  We spent some time discussing gender violence, toxic masculinity and her activism. Like so many activists I have spoken to she is always questioning her path and the impact of her actions. But non-action is not a possibility for her.

Lebohang is the Managing Director of the Four Rivers Trading Consultancy and a research fellow at the progressive think tank, The Trade Collective. Her areas of interest include the regional political economy, globalization and the movement of people, among other things. She is a feminist and an Africanist and this perspective guides her research and analysis. We had a wide-ranging discussion that started with a look at the mid-term budget review that was presented last week and went on to look  at the structure of the South African economy, the future of state-owned power utility Eskom and the need to resolve the land question. Lebohang spoke about the right of all South Africans to relevant education and efficient medical care.  It was a fascinating discussion that gave me new perspectives on the challenges facing efforts to restructure our economy and our society as a whole.

Chippy was one of my early guests on the podcast. He had recently published his first book, How To Steal A City which looked at state capture and ANC corruption in Nelson Mandela Bay. His new book, A House Divided turns his attention to the City of Cape Town. What started out as a look at the mismanagement by the Democratic Alliance (DA) of the water crisis that rocked the city a few years ago became an investigation into party funding, property development and land policy as well as an insight into tensions between city officials and politicians, particularly Patricia de Lille who was mayor at the time. We chatted about some of these issues but also about the current state of the DA, some of the difficult choices facing the ANC, and why he supports President Ramaphosa. Editing software is provided by Hindenburg Systems (https://hindenburg.com/) . Editing software made for radio.

Motlatsi embarked on a career as an academic, teaching philosophy, by chance, after flirting briefly with both medicine and law.  Born and raised in Johannesburg she has been teaching at UNISA for five years. Her areas of academic interest include Ubuntu, social movements and ethics among other things. We chatted about a number of things including the challenges of teaching in a distance/open learning environment, the decolonisation of knowledge acquisition and teaching, as well as the philosophy of ubuntu and the dynamic nature of social movements.

Dr Joel Modiri is a Senior Lecturer in the Department of Jurisprudence at the University of Pretoria. His PhD thesis was entitled “The Jurisprudence of Steve Biko: A Study in Race, Law and Power in the ‘Afterlife’ of Colonial-apartheid”. The central concern of his teaching and research relates to the development of a critical anti-racist post-conquest jurisprudence through which to contemplate possibilities for liberation, decolonisation and historical justice in South Africa and beyond.  We had a fascinating, and inspiring discussion that touched on critical race theory and the work of the American academic derrick bell and the concept of interest convergence, the legacy of the ANC in the failure of the post-apartheid project in South Africa and the relevance of Steve Biko today. Joel is controversial in some circles for his outspoken critique of the South African constitution which ha says failed to take into consideration race, and as a consequence the black south African experience, in its drafting. Read academic papers by Joel Modiri here (https://up-za.academia.edu/JoelMModiri) .

Niren Tolsi is an award-winning South African journalist,a former Ruth First Fellow and an avid cricket fan. He covers issues around social justice, the constitution, politics, and violence. He is a co-founder of the now defunct The Con, and and associate editor/writer for New Frame. Our discussion focuses on a number of themes that emerge from some of his recent writing including a series  articles about South African cricketing great Hashim Amla, his 2018 Ruth First lecture  that focused on the state of the  South African media landscape, his ongoing work about the families of the miners massacred at Marikana in 2012, and a current project looking at politics and violence in kwaZulu-Natal. So during our chat we spoke about the lack of transformation in sport, the media and business as well as the structure and nature of the South African media, and the state of the ANC through the violence in kwaZulu-Natal. Read The Rainbow Beauty of Hashim Amla here (http://www.thecricketmonthly.com/story/1131324/the-rainbow-beauty-of-hashim-amla) . The Meaning of Hashim Amla (https://www.newframe.com/the-meaning-of-hashim-amla/) Niren's Ruth First lecture (http://journalism.co.za/2018-ruth-first-memorial-lecture-delivered-by-niren-tolsi-full-paper/) . Marikana (https://marikana.mg.co.za/)

Prof Schutte is currently an associate professor of International Relations and Economics, and member of the post-graduate courses in World Political Economy and International Relations at the Federal University of Sao Paulo. He worked as an advisor to the Lula government(2004-2006), and has also been as a regional advisor to the World Bank among a host of diverse postings. He was in Johannesburg a few weeks ago as the guest of the Mapongubwe Institute for Strategic Reflection (MISTRA). He gave the MISTRA annual lecture on 4 September entitled "The age of unreason and ignominy – can we judge the people’s judgement?" We chatted about a range of things including Prof Schutte's view on the state of the global left, some of the challenges facing young democracies like ourselves, the changing nature of work, South Africa and the BRICS and the coming battle for the global economy. Read more about Prof Schutte here (http://www.mistra.org.za/Events/SiteAssets/Pages/Mapungubwe-Annual-Lecture-2019-by-Giorgio-Romano-Schutte/Resum%c3%a9%20Prof%20RG%20Schutte.pdf) .

thought in the light of the current protests and public anger around the recurring issue of gender-based violence I would revisit an interview I published last year with Siya Jentile.  He is the founder and president of Not in My name, an NGO aimed at mobilising society, and men in particular, against gender-based violence. In looking for some information to share with you about the scale and scope of the problem we face regarding this national catastrophe I was shocked at the dearth of up to date national statistics on the rape assault and murder of women in South Africa. One I found is that a woman is killed every three hours in this country. According to The World Health Organization (WHO), 12.1 in every 100 000 women are victims of femicide in South Africa each year – a figure which is five times worse than the global average of 2.6. Another depressing figure I came across is that there were at least 55 rape complaints against police officers were investigated in the six months between April to September 2018, according to the 2018/19 annual report of the police watchdog, the Independent Police Investigative Directorate (IPID). Get engaged, involved and active. Find out more about Sonke Gender Justice (https://genderjustice.org.za/) , POWA (https://www.powa.co.za/POWA/) or contact Siya (https://siyabulelajentile.com/about-me) .

I met Mohamed back in the mid-1980's when he was an organiser for the Chemical and Industrial Workers Union. Mohamed grew up in Umzinto on the KwaZulu-Natal south coast among desperately poor sugarcane workers. He has devoted his life to the struggle for social change and economic transformation in South Africa.  Over the years he has worked in provincial government and in NGO's. I visited him in Cape Town where he lives with his family. We had a wide-ranging chat about history and culture, the ongoing struggle for a more redistribute social and political model, and confronting race and racism in Cape Town.

Pooven Moodley grew up in Mandini, Northern KwaZulu-Natal in the shadows of a coal-powered paper mill. His lungs suffer from that childhood exposure to polluted air today. We chat about his early activism fighting apartheid, he was on a Zululand Police hit list at one point, to his current work at Natural Justice. Natural Justice ".. specialises in human rights and environmental law in Africa in pursuit of both social and environmental justice." He touched on some of the recent community based campaigns Natural Justice has worked on, as well as a broader chat on the magnitude of the climate change catastrophe we are facing as a species. And the need for a drastic change int the way we live. Read more about Natural Justice here (https://naturaljustice.org/) . Read about the Greenpeace Air Quality Report here (https://www.greenpeace.org/international/press-release/21193/latest-air-pollution-data-ranks-worlds-cities-worst-to-best/) .

Leonie Joubert studied journalism at Rhodes University after giving up art school at the same campus. She got into science writing after sailing to Marion Island on the South African research vessel SA Agulhas in 2003. Her first book Scorched, which looked at climate change in South Africa, was published in 2006. Today she writes about science, climate change, urban development, food production and mental health. We touch on some of these issues during our conversation. The main focus of her writing however is on climate change, the psychological impact of climate change on individuals and society and the emergence of psylocibin, a psychedelic, as a means to alleviate the impact of certain mental health issues such as depression. And perhaps even the anxiety bought about by climate change. We chatted about her journey into science writing, her recent crisis of confidence and how she has rediscovered her strength of purpose, and the current global research into psylocibin. Find out more about Leonie here (http://leoniejoubert.co.za) . Listen to the Psychonauts audio book episodes here (https://psychonauts.co.za) .

Dianne Willman has worked for the National Prosecuting Authority for twenty years. She is also a Catholic priest. Being neither religious nor particularity spiritual this episode was a bit of a departure for me. I have always been intrigued as to why somebody would believe in a God, and also interested in the role of the church as a source of comfort to an individual on the one hand, and an institution of conservatism and oppression on the other. Dianne and I talked about faith, her calling to the priesthood, her community and wanting to create a "better" church.  We also discussed her work at the Asset Forfeiture Unit including training of similar units in countries across the continent.

Edgar Kasenene was born in Uganda, lived in Kenya and Swaziland as a child and studied for an MA in engineering in the UK. He has lived in South Africa for the last seven years. He joined Retro Rabbit earlier this year after a number of years with Ericson, the Swedish telecommunications company. Retro Rabbit is a software development company that wants to put itself at the centre of the technology revolution sweeping the continent. We had a fascinating, and for me at times mind-blowing conversation about technology, data, connectivity, the future of work, 4IR, AI, curiosity and creativity. And some other stuff as well. Edgar says we all have to shift our minds to adjust to the new reality that technology brings. Read more about Retro Rabbit and the Rabbiteer program here (http://retrorabbit.co.za/) .

Victor Stephanopoli is a citizen of the world having lived in a number of countries over the years. The son of French and German parents he has lived in Cape Town since 2014. He joined MzansiSat in 2016 and is currently COO of the company. He is fluent in several languages and has a degree in film and video production from Ravensbourne University in London. He has interested in issues around the delivery of public health, and education. MzansiSat is a satellite broadband company that is on a mission to provide stable and affordable satellite broadband to southern Africa. It is a bold vision and we talk about some of the technical aspects of this vision as well as the potential to impact people’s lives in a number of ways. Victor also chats about the ease of doing business in South Africa, the importance of investing in one’s colleagues and how satellite broadband can impact education across the region. Find out more about MzansiSat here (https://www.mzansisat.co.za/home/#) .

Mavuso left South Africa in 1963 at the age of 21. He returned with his family in 1993.He helped build the ANC armed wing uMkhonto weSizwe from scratch. While in exile he underwent military training in the USSR, studied for a BSc , and worked for the United Nations World Food Program. He is the father of my first guest Sisonke Msimang Recently he has become an outspoken critic of former President Jacob Zuma, and what he sees as the moral and ethical decline of the ANC. We chatted about his decision to join the armed struggle and go for military training as well as some of the logistical and political constraints of operating in exile. We mainly though chatted about the current state of the ANC and the massive effort that is required by all citizens to save our fledgling democracy.

Lwazi worked in the emergency room at Somerset West Hospital in the Western Cape for twelve years before taking the leap into film producing. She joined Spier films as an Executive Producer in 2018.  Her first foray into the industry was as producer of the groundbreaking and controversial  film Of Good Report in 2013.  More recently Lwazi co-produced An Act of Defiance, a film about freedom fighter Braam Fischer.   She is also a founding member of Sisters Working in Film And Television (SWIFT) an organisation committed to empowering women working in the industry. Lwazi is also a co- chairperson of The South African Screen Federation(SASFED) We chatted about her journey from medicine into film, the role of a film producer, the challenges of making a movie and her desire to change the narrative and content of south African film. Find out more about Sisters Working in Film & Television(SWIFT) here (http://www.swiftsa.org.za/) . Watch ThatsNotOk (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6GZSLip_A2oUVwAYfpoX7A)

John has been an activist since his student days. A qualified social worker he has supported the Xolobeni community and the Amadiba Crisis Committee for nearly 20 years in the struggle against mining prospectors. We chatted about some of the theological and philosophical principles that guide him in his life and in his work. John spoke about his path from observer to activist in Xolobeni, and also some of the issues around land ownership, resources, traditional leadership and  even state capture that are raised by the Xolobeni dispute You can follow the Xolobeni story on John's YouTube channel (https://www.youtube.com/user/Icosindaba) . Read Sam Sole's article about Xolobeni here (https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2019-06-30-xolobeni-the-mine-the-murder-the-dg-and-many-unanswered-questions/) . John's book is entitled The Promise Of Justice (https://www.takealot.com/promise-of-justice-book-one-the-story-ebook/PLID37429917?gclid=Cj0KCQjwpPHoBRC3ARIsALfx-_JE41qHAGDiqdU5xxhd18DO3g4POHpcOp0GjlnmvQ29_cNDtQS5sGsaAofEEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds)

Mpho left a successful career in advertising to follow her dream of making a living out of food. She now runs the experiential catering company Food I Love You from the Victoria Yards complex in Johannesburg. She advocates food simple, tasty food that looks and tastes fantastic. We chatted about her early experiences in cooking, the inspiration she got from her mother and the importance of being a role-model and mentor to others. Mpho is also involved in catering for the Including Society project that brings together a range of different people to discuss sensitive issues around transformation over a good meal. While Food I Love You is primarily a catering company you can pop down to Victoria Yards on the first Sunday of every month and see what Mpho has on the menu. She assures me there are always plenty of vegan/veggie options available. For more information about Food I love You, go here (https://foodiloveyou.co.za/) . You can follow the Including Society project in Instagram.

Faith Pienaar left a promising career in wine-making to join Accountability Lab and work for, among other things, a better public service for all citizens of South Africa. Faith is the Senior Programme Manager for Accountability Lab. The aim of Accountability Lab is to encourage good governance by highlighting the good work of public servants. This is done through the Accountability Icon campaign were community members nominate for recognition members of the public service who have preformed excellent work. We chatted about Faith's journey into civil society and what she hoes to achieve through Accountability Lab. One of the aims is to build community-based accountability networks and support the leadership of these networks. Find out more about Accountability Lab here (http://www.accountabilitylab.org/) .

Kevin Bloom is an author and journalist. He is a regular columnist for the Daily Maverick online news site where he has recently written a series of articles around the environment and issues of climate change and extreme weather. In an article (https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2019-06-10-deadly-air-ramaphosa-named-in-multi-billion-rand-coal-pollution-court-case/) published a few days after we spoke Kevin wrote about a landmark case around air pollution in Mpumalanga province where President Ramaphosa is one of the respondents. We chatted about some of the themes of his recent writing including the Xolobeni community in the Eastern Cape and its fight against the intrusion of an Australian mining company, the contradictions of government environmental policy, and the threat to Africa and South Africa  of the environmental crisis we are facing. Kevin also spoke about the myth of "clean" coal and the forces that prevent the emergence of cheap, sustainable energy.

Prof Engelbrecht is a climate modeller based at the GCI (Global Change Institute) at Wits University, Johannesburg. Prof Engelbrecht joined the institute earlier this year after a ten years at the CSIR (Council for Scientific and Industrial Research) where he was appointed chief researcher in 2016. We chatted about the GCI, whose work “..addresses problems related to global change, climate change and sustainability in a multidisciplinary and trans disciplinary manner.” But more importantly we look at his work in climate modelling particularly in the context of his work for the recent IPCC (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change) special report on the impacts of global warming of 1.5 degrees C above pre-industrial levels. During our chat Prof Engelbrecht warns of the impending dire consequences for life on the planet if we do not make a revolutionary change to the way we live, travel, produce and consume.

Cas Coovadia is the Managing Director of BASA, the Banking Association of South Africa. The BASA website states, "The role of The Banking Association is to facilitate the enablement of a conducive banking environment through robust engagement with government and relevant stakeholders."  We chatted about the role of BASA, the kind of roles banks can play in stimulating growth and alleviating poverty as well as issues around a proposed state-owned bank and suggestions to nationalise the reserve bank.  Cas has a long history in community and political activism dating back to his student days and then the United Democratic Front. He was detained a number of times in the 1980’s. He also spoke on the need for a renewal of community-based activism across the country to protect our fragile society and the democratic project.

I met Brad Holmes about 15 years ago before Kajsa and I moved back to South Africa in 2010. He was already a well-established reprobate and a legend in the South African music scene. Brad is an evangelist for South African jazz in particular, and African music in general. And the sweetest guy you will meet. Brad and later his wife-to-be Paige ran the renowned  Melville jazz venue The Bassline from 1994-2003. The venue became a home to established musicians, and a nursery for a new generation of South African jazz musicians. Brad knows them all, and he tells a few stories about Hugh Masakela, Bheki Mseleku, Abdullah Ibrahim and Alan Kwela, among others, during our chat. He is producing the Bassline Africa Day concert that takes place at Constitutional Hill in Johannesburg on May 25. We also spoke the dire state of live music in South Africa and the possible role government can play in promoting artists and venues alike.

This is a repeat of an episode published in early 2018. Unfortunately due to unforeseen circumstances I was left without my planned guest for this week. Ronnie is a founder member of the ANC's armed wing Umkhonto we sizwe and a former government minister. Ronnie had an article published in the Daily Maverick online magazine on May 14 entitled "A curate's egg of an election" where he looks at some of the trends in the recent South African election around low voter turnout, low voter registration and the feeling of apathy that seems to have descended on the South African electorate. Read the article [here](https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/opinionista/2019-05-14-a-curates-egg-of-an-election/). I thought it would be interesting to place this election in the context of the liberation struggle and get a sense from Ronnie of some of the challenges facing the ANC.

I spoke to Angelo two days before the South African general election. Angelo is a political analyst, writer and head of research at ASRI. Angelo has worked as an academic and broadcaster before taking up his current post. We chatted about South Africa's political progress over the last 25 years, the state of the democratic project and some of the challenges facing our political structures such as the party list system and literacy. And the weakness of the main opposition parties and the incapacity of these parties to make significant inroads into the ANC support base despite years of government failure at many levels. Angelo speaks about his hope in the youth while at the same time noting the extremely low youth registration figures for this election cycle. Read more about ASRI [here](http://www.asri.org.za/).

My guest this week is veteran South African investigative journalist Sam Sole. He is the co-managing partner of the amaBhungane, a non-profit investigative journalist team that has its roots in the Mail and Guardian newspaper. I met Sam in Durban the mid-1990s when he was a reporter for the Sunday Tribune.  The amaBhungane team has played a major role in uncovering various aspects of state capture among other things. We discussed how the amaBhungane team operates, how it chooses which stories to cover and then also some of the challenges facing journalism in south Africa and across the continent. I was interested to hear how the amaBhungane are shifting focus to corporate South Africa. And also getting a sense of how the team works and the importance of having time to pursue stories to the end. A luxury missing from many newsrooms today around the world. Read all about amaBhungane [here](https://amabhungane.org/).

Gabi Ncobo describes herself as a disruptor. As a curator she wants to unlock new ways of thinking about art. She describes herself as an artist, curator and educator but is wary of being labelled or put into a particular professional box. She wants that freedom that comes without mainstream job titles. Gabi was born in Umlazi, a township south of Durban. She studied art at one of only two township art schools at the time and then went on study art, and curatorial practice. She recently returned to South Africa after spending 18 months in Berlin curating the Berlin biennial. Before that she co-curated the 32nd  Sao Paulo biennale.

Dr. Meriting Thokoane is a prosthsodontist, lecturer and traditional healer. She is currently doing an MA in Maxillofacial Prosthetics Rehabilitation through Kings College in London. We chatted about her path into dentistry. We touched on some of the technical and psychological aspects of her work. Many of her patients have terrible head and neck damage that require her specialised technical support, but who are also in deep psychological distress due to the nature of their injuries. We chatted about the joy and fulfilment she gets from her patients and students alike. Meriting also speaks about her journey to becoming a traditional healer and the strength she gets from that.

I chatted to Frank a few months back when he was travelling through South-East Asia searching for "…the radical ubuntu that connects the marginalised around the world." We had a great chat and decided then to have a pre-election catch-up once the election was nearing. Frank has been an activist and organiser for most of his adult life and offers a unique perspective on our current state and the future. So we chatted a  little about ubuntu and about his journey through Thailand, Vietnam and Cambodia. We chatted more about the current rather depressing state of the nation. "The centre is not holding". And we chatted a lot about his hope for the future and the possibilities for activism and change that come from a time of crisis. "Never become despondent and always be alive and looking for opportunities to engage and organise."

Ebrahim Fakir is the Programme Director for Auwel Socio-Economic Research Unit (ASRI). He is also a well-know policy analyst and political commentator. Ebrahim grew in Lenasia south of Johannesburg (.."because I could not live anywhere else."). He later studied English Literature at Wits University before stints at IDASA, the Centre for Policy Studies (CPS) and in the Legislation and Oversight Division of the South African parliament. We chatted about a range of issues including the crisis of leadership facing the three main political parties, the inconsistency of policy as these parties vye for political power, the need for the ANC to push for growth if its welfare agenda is going to continue, and the importance of a functioning and empowered civil service that serves all the citizens of South Africa. Find out more about ASRI [here](http://www.asri.org.za/).

Dr. Mbete lectures in politics at the University of Pretoria. She is also a Democracy Works Fellow. The subject of her Doctorate is South Africa's  first two terms on the UN Security Council in2007/8 and 2011/12. So we chatted quite a bit about South Africa on the global and regional stages, but also touched on the state of our parliament, the government and the parliamentary parties as we approach the May 8 general election. Sithembile points out the weakness of the political parties but acknowledges that the checks and balances in our parliamentary system do work. At the same time she says our democratic structures should be supported by community activism, a strong civil society and a functioning state bureaucracy.