In Search of an Argument

John is still away on his approved sabbatical but Peggy is just AWOL. (The Court of Inquiry is considering a suitable punishment for her). Beth and Jim are left to serve as Shelly's interlocutors as she demonstrates her mastery of all facets of the human genome. The conversation varies from the scientific to the philosophical (nature vs. nurture) to the intensely personal. It is likely to increase the endorphin levels of anyone who listens.

John is AWOL from this episode but Jim is present to complain about his local government’s organization of the vaccination distribution effort. Beth, who drove two hours from home to get the one-and-done shot, is excited to start traveling again. Peggy lavishes praise on the 1985 film Back To The Future. Shelly explains why baby showers drive her to drink. They all talk about the general vaccine situation, reminisce about Echo & The Bunnymen, and find out why and how Shelly has reevaluated her entire life.

In addition to reflecting on the merits and meaning of International Women’s Day, all five of the gang talk about women who have inspired them personally. They also talk about what the future might hold for working women and women’s voices that have inspired them personally.Follow us on InstagramFollow us on TwitterFollow us on Facebook

The gang can see each other while they record (except for Peggy) but the video version has not yet arrived for our listeners. But keep watching for it (except for Peggy). Shelly and Peggy have money matters on their mind before the main part of the discussion begins. During her Top Of Mind segment Shelly once more proves that her attention to detail can’t be rebutted. Beth rhapsodizes about fresh air and childhood memories of playing outside. Shelly relates tales of riding stables and her parents’ farm. Peggy feels that she is the perfect mix of loving both indoor and outdoor activities. (She is perfection on her own terms). John expresses his joy for the street life of European cities and his disdain for the air quality in Shanghai. Like many discussions these days we all end up talking about the latest pandemic news and trends.Follow us on InstagramFollow us on TwitterFollow us on Facebook

Shelly starts things off by giving a fulsome introduction to her friend and co-worker, Rob. She is so wrapped up in what she is saying that she has to be prodded to cue the Top Of Mind segment. Rob recounts his many and various experiences as a theatergoer; discusses his work being a producer, and lists his five all-time favorite shows. He also speculates about when Broadway will reopen and what changes may occur when it reopens. During the Recommendations section, John and Beth bemoan sloppy book editing and Shelly proposes a rule that recommendations should not be trashed by fellow podcasters.Recommendations:Beth – Go OutsideJim – The Eight Detective by Alex Pavesi (book)John – Read International NewsPeggy – (via Jim) The Vanishing Half by Brit Bennett (book)Shelly – Mr. Selfridge (TV)Rob Finch – In And Of Itself (play streaming on Hulu); American Son (play streaming on Netflix)Follow us on InstagramFollow us on TwitterFollow us on Facebook

Richard Tobin, who loves music (and has known John Heintz since the 1980s) picked Don’t You Want Me by The Human League and explains his selection by relating a funny story from his family life. Peggy selected Bizarre Love Triangle by New Order because of her fond memories of dancing to it at the under-21 club. Shelly picked Jack & Diane by John Mellencamp and remembers listening to it while riding the bus to volleyball games during high school. Beth’s choice was The One I Love by R.E. M. The very first concert she ever attended she heard R.E.M. as the opening act for The Police. Jim picked Tainted Love by Soft Cell. He explained the history of the song that was written by Ed Cobb, a member of the 1950s vocal group, The Four Preps. John selected Big Time by Peter Gabriel and expressed his disdain for nostalgia.Links for the songs discussed are:26 Miles by The Four PrepsBig Time by Peter GabrielBizarre Love Triangle by New OrderDon’t You Want Me by The Human League Jack & Diane by John Mellencamp The One I Love by R.E.M.Tainted Love by Soft CellRecommendations:Beth - A June of Ordinary Murders by Conor Brady (Book)Jim – Run (Movie)John - Caste by Isabel Wilkerson (Book)Peggy – Stay off FacebookFollow us on InstagramFollow us on TwitterFollow us on Facebook

After the Top of Mind segment (including the question of whether or not Shelly should get a dog) the discussion focuses on the insurrection of Wednesday, January 6, 2021. John and Jim had discussed these events at some length in a previous episode so the primary discussion centers on the reactions of Beth, Peggy and Shelly. They all discuss the brief glow of victory from the Georgia results before it was spoiled by the attack on the Capitol. They also discuss the vaccine roll out including Peggy’s personal experience. Richard Tobin offers a musical suggestion for a future episode. The recommendations are:Beth – When You Find Me, a book by P.J. VernonJim – The Honjin Muders, a book by Seishi YokomizoJohn - The War Of Art, a book by Steven PressfieldPeggy - Cobra Kai series on NetflixShelly – The Dublin Murder Squad series of books by Tana French

John and Jim briefly review the shocking events of the day (placed in the context of the surprising events of the day before when the Democrats won effective control of the U.S. Senate. They discuss the significance of the mob action against the Capitol as well as the short-term and long-term impacts of the threat to democracy. They talk about the dangers posed by Trump and the virulent nationalism he represents while searching for any signs of hope.

After initiating Beth with a short quiz to see how well she understands the minds of her colleagues, the co-hosts look back at their predictions for 2020. (Who said Bernie Sanders would be the Democratic nominee for President?) They fearlessly promulgate new predictions for 2021. (Who believes the new Ambassador to the U.N. will be Time’s Person Of The Year in 2021?) During the episode they are joined intermittently by Tom McGrath, Bill Granzo, Janine Grohar, Richard Tobin, Alex Berger, Joanna Zeiger, Nicole Wanzer-Serrano, Richard Young, Eloise Maxwell, and Nikki Brake-Sillà.RecommendationsBeth recommended Bridgerton on Netflix.Jim recommends The Abstainer.John recommends reaching out to an old friend.Peggy recommends Belgravia on Epix. Shelly recommends The Intellectual Devotional.Follow us on InstagramFollow us on TwitterFollow us on Facebook

John and Jim discuss the general issues of concern about Big Tech expressed by both the Left and the Right as well as skimming over the newest antitrust litigation. They debate at length the wisdom of repealing Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, which affords internet platforms immunity from liability for posts by users. They also discuss the conceptual question of who really are the consumers of the services provided by Facebook, Google, and Twitter. John pushes very strongly for enabling individuals to have data portability but that is only the beginning of his notions on the subject. To definitely be continued…Follow us on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook or our website at www.insearchofanargument.com

Peggy, Shelly, and Beth bravely open the pages of their own lives to consider the twists and turns that resulted in their becoming the fascinating individuals they are today. While the topic is important and serious, the conversation is tinged with humor and warmth as the three women compare their experiences and sometimes contrast the courses that they followed to reach their current stage of life. Among other things, they discuss how not being a parent impacted their relationships with other women and affected their dating lives. Each of them expresses, in their own way, a comfort and satisfaction with the life they have led while entertaining the listeners – and each other - with their stories.Peggy recommends solving your own tech problems.Shelly recommends having a virtual wine tasting.Beth recommends the book A Man Called Ove.Follow us on InstagramFollow us on TwitterFollow us on Facebook

Peggy is enjoying watching both college and professional football, particularly the recent success of the Indiana Hoosiers. But John remains skeptical about sports in general and in particular the recent comments of Duke basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski regarding postponing the college basketball season. Shelly is excited that she just had her eyes checked and is getting a new pair of glasses. This leads to tangents regarding Lasik surgery and Warby Parker. John’s current obsession with Christmas cookies leads into a discussion about the bane of processed sugar, particularly for children. Jim remembers Senator Sarbanes and his experiences working on his staff many, many years ago.

As a respite from an impending winter that offers tantalizing hope amid bleak news, these tales of Paris represent in part a yearning for lost innocence. Beth recalls her visit to Paris with her sister twenty-three years ago. Jim remembers the food, Peg wistfully praises the champagne, Shelly enthuses about the architecture, and John thinks of Ernest Hemmingway. These are just some of the impressions and associations that are shared during this episode. The podcasters also share memories of visiting the Louvre and the Eiffel Tower and dispel the myth of Parisian rudeness. Beth and John talk about their efforts not to look and act like tourists. Peggy recounts the rich pastries she ate, the mysterious condom drawers she looked into, and trying to decipher menus written only in French. Shelly regales us with a tale of Parisian pickpockets. And we all react excitedly to Peggy’s idea of meeting in Paris next Thanksgiving! Best wishes to Gayle & Chad!RecommendationsJim recommends watching the film Casablanca.John recommends reading Baudelaire’s A Une Passante.Shelly recommends a novel, Code Name: Helene & LED Christmas Lights.Peggy recommends buying a collapsible garden hose.Follow us on InstagramFollow us on TwitterFollow us on Facebook

One of the questions researched is the comparison between the effectiveness of the French and German responses as referenced in this article from France. The effectiveness of the approach taken by South Korea is unquestionable but it is unclear as to which elements of the approach were most effective.Another country which followed a similar approach to South Korea (with even better results) is Taiwan. An interesting comparison can be made between Taiwan and New Zealand which took different but equally effective approaches as explained in The Lancet. The effectiveness of early intervention may have been enhanced due to a mutation of the virus. Peg is focused on the “weirdness” of electronics (including this smart plug she loves). Shelly is focused on the difference between Curtis Hill and Kurtis Blow and her love for Rapper’s Delight by Sugar Hill Gang.Follow us on InstagramFollow us on TwitterFollow us on Facebook

We learn who everyone is eating with today and what is on the menu. We learn that John and Peggy like to watch professional tennis and college basketball, but not the NBA. We consider Jim’s semi-urban lifestyle and ponder whether or not John, Peggy, and Shelly see their futures in the city or the country. We talk about the failure of the national government in the U.S. to deal effectively with the pandemic and how things might have been handled differently. We talk about what we will miss most this year and why John hates Thanksgiving. We talk about a lot of carbs. It is a themeless pudding of topics swirled together for your listening pleasure. And Peggy hates listening to her voice.See all our recommendations on our websiteFollow us on InstagramFollow us on TwitterFollow us on Facebook

In response to listener demand (and by that we mean a single listener) we offer a Shelly-centric episode focused on the new frontiers of genetic experimentation. Beth Shannon returns as a special guest to participate in the discussion as to whether or not different specific examples of genetic manipulation are either cool or creepy. Predictably enough, a generous portion of the episode veers off toward a consideration of the relative traits of our own Redheaded League - Peggy, Shelly, and Beth. The top of mind segment of this episode is almost exclusively about the bleakness of the upcoming holiday season because of the raging pandemic. But Shelly introduces a number of examples of genetic experimentation and manipulation that provoke a lively and funny conversation. Among the topics that come up are people born with extra eyelashes (Elizabeth Taylor); whether or not varicose veins are like “purple worms”; people who have bones that do not break (Unbreakable); glow-in-the-dark animals; goats which produce silk; and cows that produce human breast milk. Among the information we glean from these discussions is that Beth is not only redheaded but also left-handed; Peggy and Beth think alike; Shelly knows an awful lot about the inbreeding of the Hapsburgs; John listens to many (perhaps too many) podcasts; and that all knowledge is provisional. (But some people’s ignorance is constant). Among the recommendations is Peggy’s for the Moosewood Cookbook. Best wishes to Gayle & Craig!RecommendationsShelly recommends American Dirt by Janine CummingsPeggy recommends The Moosewood CookbookBeth recommends The Searcher by Tana FrenchJim recommends The Baroness Von Sketch Show on the iFC ChannelJohn recommends the recent episode of the podcast Sway with Nobel Prize winner in Chemistry Dr. Jennifer DoudnaFollow us on InstagramFollow us on TwitterFollow us on Facebook

John is focused on the pandemic and the prospect of renewed lockdowns as cases continue to surge. That leads into a brief discussion about the different approaches to the pandemic represented by President Trump and President-Elect Biden. In turn that segues into a brief consideration of the transition process and how Trump’s recalcitrance is impacting upon it. Peggy’s focus is on her desire to ski once again, either downhill or cross-country. Shelly is focused on a series of potentially serious family medical issues that have arisen in the past week or so. (And Peggy very much wants to know why she is first hearing about all of this only just now!) Jim is preoccupied by the Top Forty of the Billboard Hot 100 for the week of November 4, 1967 – a countdown topped by his all-time favorite song, To Sir With Love by Lulu. MoreFollow us on InstagramFollow us on TwitterFollow us on Facebook

John spent election night trying to toggle between the election returns and caring for his infant son. Peg tried to ignore all of the election news and went to bed early. Beth spent election day helping to get out the vote in Philadelphia and election night listening to the Rolling Stones and watching Netflix. Shelly watched a smattering of news on election night before switching to watch Crimson River. During Tuesday night and into Wednesday, Jim had three election information tabs open on his computer, CNN on his TV, and a text chain on his telephone. Peg would prefer that there be a news blackout until all the votes are tallied and the results are announced in the manner of an awards show. Beth related her heartfelt experience of interacting with voters in majority minority neighborhoods in Philadelphia where the indicia of poverty was overwhelming. The contrast between the earnestness of individuals who have every reason to be cynical about this country but are not, and the apparent amorality of half of the country that wanted to re-elect Trump was particularly striking for Beth. John attempted to categorize the types of people who voted for Trump and what their respective motivations are. All five attempted to grapple with the fact of the stark divisions within the United States.GuestBeth Shannon is a world traveler and local activist. She lives in Silver Spring. RecommendationsJim recommended the film A Call to Spy.John recommended checking out Room Rater on Twitter.Peggy recommended going to be early on election night.Shelly recommended the book The Great Alone.Beth recommended Bordertown on Netflix.Find our history of recommendations on our website.

The Top of John’s mind is occupied by positive thoughts that Donald Trump will turn out to be a one term President but negative thoughts about what that means. Peg is too worried about jinxing the outcome to even speculate on Trump as a one and done president. Shelly sees the silver lining emerging from the Trump cloud as the raised awareness of racial injustice. John believes that Trump will be remembered as the President who exemplified the coming of age of Twitter. Jim thinks Trump will be remembered as the Herbert Hoover of the pandemic. Peggy is in a somber state of mind because the escalating number of pandemic cases. Shelly is concerned because her friend Janine was recently exposed to someone who has tested positive. Jim is the voice of sunny optimism, wishing a happy 81st birthday to Eddie Holland, part of the legendary Motown songwriting and producing triumvirate, Holland-Dozier-Holland.Follow us on InstagramFollow us on TwitterFollow us on Facebook

Will Gentile, previous podcast guest and son of Jim, returns, ostensibly to discuss what it is like to work in New York City during the pandemic. It soon becomes clear that Will’s main agenda is to flirt shamelessly with Shelly while John, Jim, and Peggy listen in haplessly. Think of this episode as an update to the online dating special.After a brief reference to Beverly Hills 90210 (which John didn’t get) there is some discussion of Peggy and Will’s (separate) hard partying the night before recording this episode. Will snidely defends his behavior with a reference to President Trump’s recent dismissal of the pandemic (which John didn’t get). Will does take some time in between flirting to discuss being laid off at the very beginning of the pandemic and subsequent work as a production assistant for commercials. Here’s a link to one of Will’s commercials. Will also refers to Shelly’s home city as Naptown (which John and Peggy didn’t get). Some of John’s lack of comprehension may have resulted from overindulgence in the product of the new espresso machine his sister recently purchased. Shelly’s behavior may be a side effect from using an inversion table. And Peggy is Peggy. But Will is an authentic millennial who likes to talk about his overindulgences of all kinds, making references that he apparently believes will not be in the final version of the episode due to the editing of Justin Mullins. Boy will he be surprised when he hears it.GuestWill Gentile is a filmmaker. He lives in New York. (And yes, he truly is Jim’s son).RecommendationsWill: Watch Wild Goose Lake. Neo-noir film from ChinaJohn: Watch The Good Place. Season 4Shelly: Invest in an Inversion Table.Peggy. Eat Zestar applesJim: Read The Man in the Red Coat by Julian Barnes.

The Top of John’s mind is occupied by negative thoughts about the Supreme Court nomination of Amy Coney Barrett, which causes him great consternation. Peggy echoes his dim view of the nominee and the process by which she is being hurried through to a vote before the election. Shelly has two different topics on Top: A happy follow-up to her previously expressed concern about some employees she might have to give bad news to and the prospect of a Zoom Happy Hour to commence as soon as the recording is completed. What is foremost on Peg’s mind is her disappointment that the weather has cleared up and no longer matches her insular desire to sit in the dark eating popcorn and watching a movie on Netflix. Jim’s less-than-spontaneous mind features remembrances of quirky events from the 1976 and 2000 presidential elections. See the video on Youtube. And we also learn the definition of “capacious”.Follow us on InstagramFollow us on TwitterFollow us on Facebook

In addition to the riveting main topic discussion, the group fills the time with meaningless banter and anger management. Peggy’s mind is focused on a particular fourteen year-old child. John hates the fall (but Peggy likes it). Shelly has to fire some people (and she would not mind it if they deserved it). Jim wants to raise again the topic of sex with robots. Peggy’s mom likes the show and there is at least one listener who likes what Jim has to say (but Peggy says he is condescending). The gang makes recommendations even though they can’t remember what they recommended the last time. And so it goes.RecommendationsRecommendationsPeggy: Drink a Kwity, a shot of bourbon with Apple cider (hot or cold) and drops of lemon juice.John: Vote right now. Try Nudie jeans.Shelly: Before We Were Yours by Lisa Wingate. Jim: Kanopy streaming service.

Watch Star Trek here while listening! Proving that they have almost completely run out of new ideas (send suggestions!) this episode ransacks two classic television series. The original television version of Star Trek spawned a Next Generation as well an entire lineage of television and film descendants (not to mention the whole Comic.Con culture). According to the summary of “Journey To Babel” published on the Alpha Memory website, “As the Enterprise comes under attack on the way to a diplomatic conference on Babel, one of the alien dignitaries is murdered, and Spock’s estranged father, Sarek, is the prime suspect – but he is also deathly ill, and only Spock can save him.” According to Wikipedia, this episode of the television series features not only the first appearances of Mark Lenard as Sarek and Jane Wyatt as Amanda, but also the introduction of two new species, the Andorians and the Tellarites. Mystery Science Theater 3000 was described in The Complete Directory to Prime Time Network and Cable TV Shows as a “…movie hosted by a human and two robots who appeared in silhouette in the lower right-hand corner of the screen, offering sarcastic commentary as the flick unspooled.”MoreFollow us on InstagramFollow us on TwitterFollow us on Facebook

Jim puts forth the thesis that the Democrats must act boldly if they are in control of both the Congress and the Presidency even if their margins are slim. That is why he identifies eliminating or modifying the Senate filibuster rule as the key to the possibility of enacting a robust set of legislation. John and Jim discuss the need for urgent action on a broad array of issues: the pandemic, economic recovery, infrastructure, election reform, political corruption, climate change, immigration reform, health care expansion, admission of the District of Columbia and Puerto Rico to statehood. John and Jim also discuss what a more narrow set of accomplishments might be achievable in the event of a Biden Presidency and a Republican Senate. John raises the question of how people currently receive their political information in a skewed fashion and Jim notes that while the media have changed the phenomena of partisan sources of information is not new. They also discuss the most recent events of the campaign that have hampered Trump’s attempts to regain lost ground, with particular focus on the foolishness of Trump allowing himself to be taped in conversation with Bob Woodward.If you want more information about the state of election you might try looking at the Cook Political Report or the Sabato Crystal Ball. Both are venerable sources of non-partisan political information on the state of races for the House, the Senate, the Governorships, and the Presidency. Real Clear Politics provides daily poll information for those who want to consume the numbers every day, but the best source for that type of information (and our favorite overall source) remains Nate Silver’s FiveThirtyEight.

While techniques like in vitro fertilization and practices like surrogacy have already enabled the rise of non-traditional parenting, the author of the article speculates that new reproductive technological advances will further break the paradigm. Shelly, from her perspective in the field of genetics, and Peggy, from her perspective as a health care professional raise the threshold question of whether or not public policy is developing fast enough to keep up with the pace of scientific change. The discussion also focuses on the implications of being able to design the genetic makeup of your yet unborn child and the priorities involved in devoting precious resources to genetic experimentation as opposed to other urgent medical care matters. There is the additional and related question of the economic privilege exercised by individuals who employ these reproductive technologies. Among the unrelated tangents that the fearsome foursome gets off on are the question of what constitutes selling out and what is the ethical difference between having sex with a robot and having sex with a vibrator. The latter subject cries out for further exploration.RecommendationsPeggy recommends Two Chicks sparkling citrus margaritasShelly recommends mood polishJim recommends Wasp Network on NetflixJohn recommends being a surrogate

The topic has particular resonance at a time when many individuals are facing severe financial challenges. Furthermore two of the chief antagonists in the 2005 debate preceding the stricter bankruptcy law were then-Senator Joe Biden and then-Harvard professor Elizabeth Warren. (Although Biden supported making the law stricter at the time he now supports Warren’s plan to undo those changes and to make personal bankruptcy easier again). John analogizes between personal and corporate bankruptcy, emphasizing that companies are given a relative painless path to bankruptcy in order to encourage risk-taking. (He also notes that companies sometimes take advantage of bankruptcy law to escape their pension responsibilities). The discussion raises implicit and explicit questions about the role of morality versus economic efficiency in developing public policy as well as which Beatles song is best sung as a lullaby.RecommendationsSweet Lamb of Heaven by Lydia Millet from PeggyNarcos on Netflix from ShellyThe Dick Van Dyke Show from JimFoot cream from John

The travel tales vary from Beth spending twelve weeks in Ireland on $900 to the decadence of John and Shelly’s safari complete with manservants drawing their baths and chandeliers. Shelly draws once again upon her experiences in the world of online dating to segue into the difference between travelling within the U.S. and exploring the rest of the world. Beth picks up on this theme to emphasize the adventures and challenges of international travel and how exhilarating they can be. (For example, hitching a ride with a broom salesman late at night in Thailand). New father John expresses his view that working hard and playing hard may have a different meaning for him now. Beth seems satisfied with the balance she has achieved, but Peggy and Shelly wish they had started playing harder sooner in life. Beth talks about early retirement and her dream trip to New Zealand. We all learn the dictionary definition of the word métier and how it relates to Peggy making gelato. In this episode we also learn that Beth has listened to the podcast recently (and that Peg is very impressed by that); that Shelly’s back is ailing; that John is worried about violence; and that Peggy is critical of Jim’s interpretation of the Top of Mind segment. If you take away one lesson from this episode, dear listeners, let it be this: Do Not Show Up At Shelly’s House Dressed As a Squirrel.

In this wide-ranging discussion of sci-fi in books, movie and television the hosts and their guest discuss the differences between sci-fi and fantasy and whether superhero movies fit into either of those two categories.They talk about good sci-fi (The original Twilight Zone episode entitled “The Eye Of The Beholder” ) and bad sci-fi (2001:A Space Odyssey). The oeuvre of Christopher Nolan is parsed and debated.John invents new categories of entertainment, distinct from both sci-fi and fantasy, such as Buffoonery, to which he relegates the television series Lost.Perhaps because they don’t include that particular characterization, John rails against Netflix for using genre classifications at all. He expresses genuine concern that the great mass of people are mindless sheep, primarily because he has not been chosen as the head shepherd.In other news from the episode: Peggy is not so much a fan of science fiction as she is of David Tennant; Jim explains why he needs therapy; and Shelly can not remember the new name. These are the voyages of the podcast enterprise!Find our recommendations on our site.GuestNIKKI BRAKE-SILLÁ is a filmmaker whose art counters and confronts pre-conceived notions about voiceless populations. She conceptualizes work that opens the viewer’s mind to new ways of thinking about these societies, and the persisting stereotypes that mainstream media portrays.Nikki’s credits include “Run Granny Run” (director, Marlo Poras; HBO Films), “UNFever” (director, Andrea Weiss), “Fast Times at West Philly High” (director, Debbie Morton; Frontline), for which she was the Associate Producer. Nikki penned her first feature film, “Silently Screaming,” a second round selection for the January 2017 Sundance Narrative Lab and a semi-finalist for Middlebury Script Lab.Nikki received her M.F.A from the City College of New York. Her thesis film, “Open Wound” received funding from The Princess Grace Foundation, The National Board of Review, The Bert Saperstein Foundation, The Institute for Human Studies, and the Danielle & Larry Nyman Family and Public Media Foundation.

Dr. Tobin moved with his family to Australia approximately ten years ago for better opportunity and although he remains in his heart a Glaswegian, he is immensely proud of the way the people of Australian are handling the COVID crisis. (But all things considered he would love to live in Spain). Richard explains how the wildfire crisis in Australia may have helped prepare the political leadership in Australia to deal with the pandemic. Richard and John also discuss the relationship between Australia and China and famous musical acts with an Australian pedigree. There is reminiscing about the Edinburgh Fringe Festival and other events from the past. But they never do get around to talking Scottish football. At the beginning of the episode Shelly is frazzled because she is suffering from a pinched nerve and Peggy is frazzled because, well, she is Peggy. John engages in his usual glib summations of complex problems. During the recommendations section, Jim losses his mind when Shelly speaks these horrifying two words: Malcolm Gladwell.

During the course of their very-few-holds-barred conversation Peggy, Shelly and Janine discuss the various different dating services they have used, some of the loser men they have met, and even to venture into the area of how the pandemic has affected the search for love. (Summary conclusion: The pandemic is not-so-good for dating but is good for sex). Janine and Shelly discuss the differences to their respective approaches to online dating now as compared to how they experienced it when they were younger. Shelly specifically bemoans the paucity of options other than online dating for meeting new people. And of course, they talk generally about men: men who ghost women; men who are too short; men who are too old; men who are too pathetic; men who can’t handle rejection; men who lie generally; and men who lie specifically about their marital status. Also don’t ever meet up with a new potential man without sharing the information with a friend so they can call the authorities if you don’t turn up within a certain amount of time. The things we do for (the mere possibility) of love…Follow us on InstagramFollow us on TwitterFollow us on Facebook

Despite the fact that a significant majority of Americans do not like Donald Trump and do not support his re-election, there remains widespread fear and anxiety that Trump will win in November anyway. In January when we did predictions on the subject, John and Peg and Shelly all predicted he would win in November despite the fact that it made them physically ill to contemplate that possibility. Perhaps to be contrary, as is his wont, Jim predicted a Trump loss. Now that six months have passed and some actual data is available (and, oh yes by the way, the world we live in has been turned upside down) Jim is eager to reaffirm his prediction. Shelly gamely took on the thankless task – equivalent to representing Manson in court - of trying to argue why Trump will win. Jim relied upon data from polls and recent electoral history to make a strong case why it seems very likely that Trump will lose. However, Shelly made several strong points on the other side, notably that Trump retains a core of avid supporters and that many of his policy positions are widely supported. John speaks for many liberals who suffer from Trump Derangement Syndrome and expresses his fear that somehow he will pull off some dramatic surprise to win re-election. But in this case let’s hope Bobby McFerrin is right. Peg was away on a family trip so she could not participate but she dis text to say that if she could have joined us she would have forgotten to prepare a recommendation anyway.

At a relatively somber time In the world, we decided to do an episode talking about loss from a personal perspective. Because losing loved ones is an experience that everyone goes through at one time or another this seemed to be an appropriate time for each of us to reflect and share our own stories of loss. We are joined by Gwenn Danet-Desnoyers, a longtime friend of John and Peggy, who reflects upon the experience of his mother’s illness and death. John also introduces a new segment called Top Of Mind in which each person talks about what is the first thing they are preoccupied with as of the instant of recording. For example, Jim was preoccupied with John forgetting to announce that this is the last episode to be offered in the old feed. (NOTE: THIS IS THE LAST EPISODE TO BE OFFERED IN THE OLD FEED). Despite the seriousness of the topic and the gravity of the feelings expressed there is still room for laughter: We delve into comparisons of Peggy and Shelly’s shoe sizes and Peggy’s showering habits among other items. There are recommendations from everyone, including John one he made previously.Follow us on InstagramFollow us on TwitterFollow us on Facebook

Continuing our series of conversations during the pandemic we welcome Janine from Downer's Grove, Illinois. She is a long-time friend of Shelly and Peggy who is known for her willingness to discuss topics that others might shy away from, in particular, her own vagina.The three friends engage in a discussion of Janine's vagina and vaginas in general and related matters with minimal interruptions by John and Jim.Before they enter into that part of the conversation, Janine discusses her work at the University of Chicago with Dr. Maria Lucia Madariaga and how it pertains to the COVID virus.There is also reminiscence from everyone (except Jim) about times past when they all lived and worked in Chicago (except Jim) and how their friendship developed over the years (except Jim).To make up for the fact that he is relatively quiet throughout the episode Jim overcompensates by pontificating incessantly during his recommendations for ten non-fiction books.Find this episode’s (and all our) recommendations here.Follow us on InstagramFollow us on TwitterFollow us on Facebook

In the first episode under the new title, a cold opening is attempted.With help from a famous voice out of the past, the Gang of Four tries to get in synch, but the results are not quite perfect. Just John Heintz explains about the new title and what it means (and what it does not mean).That segues into a discussion of the value of “opinion” v. the value of “facts.” That discussion segues into a broader discussion regarding trust in government in general and the performance of government during the current crisis in particular.That in turn becomes a Trump discussion (as all discussions seem to have become over the past four years). New ground is broken when the possibility is raised of a Trump supporter appearing on the podcast. (If there are any Trump supporters listening, get in touch. This could be your chance for instant fame.)Jim Gentile introduces some factual comparisons of the current epidemic to the influenza outbreak of 1918 and John actually praises him and Jim becomes even more insufferable.Peggy and Shelly provide some interesting personal updates regarding their work and all four make recommendations.