Talking Talmud

A daf of 4 mishnayot! (1) 3 different kinds of trees and how they might have been used for idolatrous purposes, and whether they are permitted afterwards. (2) What is an "asherah"? Different views. (3) On using the shade from the idolatrous tree. (4) Planting vegetables under the asherah tree - in the winter or summer, when is it permitted or prohibited?

Resh Lakish poses a question: What happens to a lulav - a palm branch - from a tree that has been worshipped? That is, in the event that it was planted to begin with in the name of idolatry. Does the use for a mitzvah make it more likely to be permitted? More likely to be forbidden? What about for regular use? Rav Dimi has a different understanding by which to answer Resh Lakish -- consider a tree that was planted for idolatry, and then that status was revoked. Now what, when it comes to mitzvot? Rav Pappa says there's no revocation (in other examples) when it comes to mitzvot. Also, new mishnayot! If one's home abuts the home of an idolater - divide the wall according to thickness. Note - the privacy of the bathroom. Plus, stones that were used to support idols vs. stones that had a covering that was connected to idolatry, and you removed any connection to idolatry....

More on the hills and mountains and rocks - where they are being worshipped by a non-Jew, that is, the boulders that separate from a rocky mountain. Is that boulder like the mountain which isn't prohibited from benefit, or is it like the object of idolatrous worship? Usually, human engagement is necessary to make the object of idolatry prohibited. With a comparison to an animal -- including one that is blemished, as a parallel to the boulder. Also, the factor of being attached the ground - to what extent does that establish the worshipped object as something problematic or not?

A new mishnah! Things in the natural world that were worshipped - and whether that worship made them prohibited for benefit. For the most part, the hills and so on are permitted - the worship doesn't change them, but the obligation to destroy the idolatry itself kicks in. Adornment in the name of idolatry would be different - and prohibited. Also, a redundancy in the Torah: a prohibition against trees that are forbidden because they have been worshipped - and then another verse prohibited "each leafy tree," which appears to be redundant. So Rabbi Akiva provides an explanation that presents a need for both verses. Plus, the question of intent - is the tree planted in the name of idolatry, in which case, it needs to be destroyed, or, alternatively, is the tree already there and then someone decides to worship it?

2 new mishnayot! First, an alternative to taking a graven image to the Dead Sea - grind it off (but then the leavings become fertilizer, which would be getting benefit from it). With a parallel to improper use of that which had been consecrated, including that which emptied into the Kidron Valley (a story of King Asa), where fertilizer was less in use... Also, the story of Rabban Gamliel and the rebuke that comes his way for being in the bathhouse of Aphrodite (he has several defenses).

What is the figure of a dragon that is prohibited? One descriptor is scales between the joints, and that is determined to be the halakhah. Also, the story how Rabbi Elazar ben HaKappar found a ring on the road with the depiction of a dragon and he insisted that an adult non-Jew nullify the idolatrous status of it -- with 3 laws being learned from his behavior. Plus, the fact that the change of status of any item when it is saved from wild animals or a destructive river, or so on -- so why did he need a non-Jew to change the status, when that ring was just found on the road? It depends on the despair of the original owner, but that assumes that the finder is Jewish and not going to sell it. Also, the prohibition against depicting the celestial bodies - but Rabban Gamliel had images of the moon to help assess witnesses who come to testify about the new moon - but how could he have those images?! What about a menorah? There are concerns about replication. Likewise, the faces that are part of God's heavenly throne - how could those images be replicated? The Gemara distinguishes between worshipping (obviously prohibited) vs. depicting, which seems to have been done, and therefore flies in the face of the prohibition.

More on finding shards, and the problematic nature of tangible hands, feet, etc., when found. But why are those tangible imagery forbidden? The idol has been destroyed! Also, the possibility of revoking the idolatrous status, and rendering it permitted for use altogether - how actively, physically must that be done? Or does it have happen on its own, without your intervention? Also, a new mishnah! Certain figures that are considered idolatrous and need to be fully "erased" - at the Dead Sea: sun, moon, stars, dragons. But are those the only possible things that were worshipped? Plus, the issues in depicting people's faces.

A Jew cannot benefit from an object that's been used for idolatry, of course, but that extends to images too. Though the majority view maintains that images are not a problem. Also, broken shards may well be permitted - for use, benefit, and so on. But what if they were the object of idol worship? And what if the shards have the image of a hand or a foot or attached to a pedestal on which the idol stood?

A new mishnah! (from the previous daf) Permitted foods, for a change, including milk that was milked by a non-Jew, who was watched by a Jew, and certain fishes, and more. Plus, a deep dive into fish and roe (fish eggs), vs. other seafood, which birth their young (and are not kosher). But some non-kosher fish also lay eggs. Also, the need for experts who were able to determine whether a given fish and its roe were kosher or not. Plus, a story about Rabbi Yehudah HaNasi, his stomach ache, and its cure in non-Jewishly-made 70-year-old non-Jewish apple wine.

Several kinds of fishes that are prohibited to be eaten. And several that are permitted, including contingent only on where they come from (depending on where that is and whether non-kosher fish are caught together with the kosher ones). Plus, the question of a fish that will eventually get scales, but doesn't have them now, or did have them, but lost them before now - those are all considered kosher too. Also, the story o a sliver of "hiltit," with concern or the knife, if it has absorbed non-kosher food. Plus, tekhelet - when to trust it as genuine? Plus, trusting the wives of meticulous scholars ("chaver") in the same way as those scholars are to be trusted.

Note: Previously labeled Daf 37, "A King's Table," was really the Daf 38 episode, sadly on account of human error. This episode the real Daf 37, "The Not-So-Permissive Court."[Who's Who: Rabbi Yehudah Nesiah, not to be confused with Rabbi Yehudah HaNasi] With a case in his name - regarding the discussion of oil that originates with non-Jews, and when that was then permitted for use by Jews, and a question about permitting the bread of non-Jews. But the sages were concerned that they would labeled a "permissive" court. [Who's Who: Yosi ben Yoezer and the Zugot] Plus, a divorce issued on condition of, for example, the husband not returning in X amount of time, or example more than a year. Also, vegetables that are boiled by non-Jews are prohibited to Jews, but why? Is changing the food (through cooking or grinding) the issue?

More on "bishul akum" -- the rabbinic prohibition against eating food cooked by a non-Jew. But anything that can be eaten raw isn't subject to the prohibition - or, that's what was taught in Sura. In Pompedita, they said the more subjective stipulation - namely, that which was not fit or a king's table was not subject to bishul akum. But there's another practical difference - namely, foods that are not eaten raw, but also are not elegant dining. The Gemara's discussion leads into considerations of what the main food is, as compared to accompaniments. Also, when Jews and non-Jews both cook together -- say, when a Jew puts meat on the coals, and a non-Jew turns the meat: is that permitted? It seems to depend on how involved the non-Jew was in the cooking. Is he expediting the cooking or making it happen?

On the oil that was decreed off-limits, until Rabbi Yehudah HaNasi said it was permitted. So the Gemara delves into the source of the degree, which becomes a far-ranging discussion on kashrut, impurity, and authority. Plus, a list of decrees - which were among 18 degrees that were established on one day - with massive implications for our own day and age.

First, a note on Rabbi Akiva's question on the previous daf. Then, a discussion about the cheese of non-Jews that leads into reflection on the verse, "for your love is better than wine" - is God talking? Are the Jewish people talking? Plus, how decrees were made quietly, lest people not be able to live up to the requirements of the decree, and tactfully. Also, a new mishnah! The list of non-Jews' foods from which Jews are prohibited to eat, but they can get benefit from the things on this list (milk, bread, oil, and more).

A Rabbi Akiva story -- wherein he didn't know the answer to 3 questions, though others in the beit midrash were able to shed light for him. (One of these questions being a straight-up "avodah zarah" Jew/non-Jew interaction question, and the possibility of rehabilitating jugs owned by a non-Jew, which explains the passage's presence on this daf). Also, more on the fish stew -- and the story of how guards were placed to guard the fish stew to make sure nobody added wine to it (risking libation wine, etc.). Note that "cheap wine" was understood to not be problematic to begin with. Plus, the cases of cheese and the woman who is betrothed with the excrement of an ox that awaits stoning.

Jewish wine in non-Jewish jugs - there's a dispute over how prohibited the wine is, and under what conditions. But if there's a Jewish intermediary, that might increase the possibilities. With the perpetual concern being a non-Jew pouring a libation that the Jew might not even notice. Also, Rav Zevid's take on non-Jews tossing things into the wine of the Jews - at what cost? But how did people handle the expense of not using the jugs or other vessels. Also, fish stew and cheese -- how they cooked and how they spiced their food, and so on. With a reduced halakhic concern, as long as no wine is entering the soup, for example. Or calves that were dedicated to idolatry, for example, when they are then used to make cheese.

NOTE: This episode is released out of order (after daf 32) because of a problem with the recording. We apologize for the inconvenience. There are 3 reasons why wine would be prohibited -- that which was used for libation; that which was owned by a non-Jew; that which belonged to a Jew, but what was deposited with a non-Jew. With various degrees of severity regarding benefit and impurity. Plus, an aphorism about a tree's presence and its fruit. Also, a further discussion on beer - and specific kinds of beer that were problematic for various reasons: fraternizing (where the beer is kosher, but avoid the establishment); small amounts of concerning wine mixed in the beer; or beer that was left uncovered, which is its own problem.

[Who's Who: The Emperor Hadrian] Hadrianic ceramics were prohibited for use by Jews -- white earthenware that absorbed the Roman wine, and then was broken and used again. But could it be used for not foodstuffs? Also, a question is raised when the halakhah isn't practical -- that the point isn't just to memorize the halakhah, but following it through, credit to Abaye. Plus, an idolatrous offering can render a place impure.

Various types of wine, and when they are permitted -- mostly they are prohibited, but not necessarily so, for example, if something is prepared prior to the Jew ever appearing as a recipient of the wine, or ointment, or other derivative products. Plus, the distinction between a healing beverage and plain old regular beverage -- and whether they can be prepared on Shabbat. Plus, concerns about how making such beverages can go wrong. Also, the distinction between wine and beer - which is usually acceptable. And the concern about social mingling that can lead to intermarriage. Also, leaving liquid and beverages uncovered - and the risk of the snakes leaving venom in the water.

On bloodletting - as a healing practice - and how the practice would dictate restrictions to one's diet for a time. Also, precautions that a Jew must take in a non-Jew's barber shop (or salon), beginning with watching the barber in the mirror. Including the question of how the mirror helps in a private domain. Plus, a story that illustrates the danger of a haircut in a private domain. Also, a new mishnah! With a list of the items from non-Jews that Jews are not permitted to use, from wine to Hadrianic earthenware to fish stew to cheese that is produced in a setting of idolatry (the Gemara explains these details later, of course).

More on healing -- when the healer is an idolater or when the healing is done on Shabbat. With a focus on vinegar and its healing properties and when it is not permitted even for sipping on Shabbat. Also, a focus on a specific treatment of "raising one's ears" on Shabbat - a physical adjustment, which is permitted on Shabbat. Plus, stories of healing on Shabbat with actual medicine too.

Circumcision that wasn't done for the sake of the mitzvah (or for God) was considered invalid. Of course, whether one needs that degree of intent is up for debate. Note also that non-Jew who happens to be circumcised isn't fulfilling the mitzvah of brit milah. Also, a new mishnah: medical or other health treatments by professionals who are non-Jews are largely prohibited, except for when they can sidestep those regulation -- but noting Rabbi Meir's harsher views in general regarding non-Jews, perhaps because of his lived experience. Note the distinction between monetary and personal treatments. Plus, the concern of Jew going to a non-Jewish barber in a private domain. Likewise, what happens when a Jew has business or medical dealings with a heretic - which is harshly cautioned against?

A Jewish woman shouldn't deliver the child of a non-Jewish (pagan) woman, but the reverse is permitted. Plus, the question of being a wet nurse. Or what about being hired for these roles? Plus, some perspective on the negativity toward non-Jews. Also, a shift in focus to renegade or heretical Jews.

On cows singing... and the sun standing still (how long is a key discussion), among other miracles from the Bible. Plus, the story of Nakdimon. Also, working off the mishnah, on seclusion - a Jewish woman is not allowed to seclude herself with a non-Jew. Nor should a Jewish man seclude himself with a non-Jew, with all kinds of complicated thinking regarding what happens if men met while traveling, and so on (to the extent of one's sword side, etc.).

More on the red heifer... and bestiality. Also, the purchase of precious stones Dama ben Netinah, an apparent idolater. Which seems to have been acceptable when it shouldn't have been. And then he is honored by having a red heifer to sell too. Also, the question of viability of animals bought from non-Jews for the sake of offerings. Plus, the question of the role of biblical figures, including Yitro, in providing offerings to the Children of Israel, after Egypt, and also later.

More on the very difficult topic of bestiality. Beginning with the question of birds. Also, a study of the statuses of "lechathilah" and "bediavad" -- when someone acts in an ideal way or after the fact. With key implications for the assumptions that are made under these different statuses (for example, under what conditions one might make an assumption that rape took place or not). Also, the red heifer - with concerns about the possibility of a sodomized cow. With parallels to the sin-offering, and the role or concern of blemishes.

A story about an idolater who works for a Jew -- and works on Shabbat, when the Jew cannot. Was that allowed? It depends on whether that was their original agreement. And the comparable question regarding a tree where the fruit is orlah. Plus, moving on to chapter 2, with a new mishnah - on the measure of negative relationships between Jews and non-Jews, where the Jews are not permitted to stable their animals at the inns of non-Jews/idolaters, because of the concern of bestiality. Note the focus on pagans/idolaters, not non-Jews pere se. Also, a tosefta contradicts the mishnah, in not being concerned about bestiality or even idolatry per se. Plus, the claim that bestiality would make female animals barren, and male animals weak. Plus, a widow cannot have a dog as a pet.

A new mishnah! A Jew may not rent a house to a non-Jew in the land of Israel, and clearly not a field. In Syria, a Jew may rent a house to the non-Jew, but not the field. And in the Diaspora, a Jew may indeed sell a house to a non-Jew and rent out the fields. (All according to Rabbi Meir). Rabbi Yossi's response is more generous. The Gemara notes that even where one may rent out a house to a non-Jews, there is no permit to do so for purpose of using the space as residential. Plus, the questions that arise (including mezuzah) when a Jew wants to rent to the non-Jew, for example. But for the one who sells in the land of Israel, he would still have puzzlement over what is leftover as a concern of idolatry, for example. Note the extra caution of not selling houses to the Syrians (regardless of the fields). Plus, no bathhouses...

Beginning with a new mishnah that opens on the bottom of daf 19: One may not make jewelry for an object of idolatry -- but you can be hired to do such things, as an artist. Also, note that Jews may not sell that which is attached to the ground to non-Jews. The Gemara will investigate the source of this prohibition - lo techanem - don't do them any mercy - which demands a great deal of investigation, and several possible meanings. But the meaning of the text and the term itself don't quite line up nicely enough - which gives the Gemara more fodder to interpret. Also, a story in the context of this injunction: about Turnus Rufus and Rabbi Akiva, during the Hadrianic Persecutions. The story includes praising the beauty of a woman who worshipped idols, so isn't that an example of a violation of the prohibition - except that we also appreciate the beauty God brings into the world. But men aren't supposed to be gazing on women and contacting on them, regardless of whether they are beautiful.

Avoiding wickedness and wrong-doing: Interpreting the first psalm in the Book of Psalms (Tehilim) - happy is one who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked - as in the generation of the Tower of Babel, or the people of Sodom. Plus, one should learn Torah according to what is a delight -- only that which one's heart desires. Also, if one builds beyond the part that a Jew should build (unto a host section for idolatry), the Jew should still receive his wages -- it's only an accessory to idolatry, not straight up benefit from idol worship. Indeed, under the right terms, the Jew could make the idol itself!

More on Rabbi Hanina ben Teradyon - his trial and interrogation about why he engaged in Torah study. Plus, his daughter who ended up sentenced to a brothel, and why his wife and daughter were punished on account of him. Yet, they all accepted the judgements as deserved, which raises theological questions about reward and punishment. Plus, those who worked alongside Rome and those who defied them, and the difference in their deaths (Rabbi Yossi ben Kismah and Rabbi Haninah ben Teradyon) - including the piety of Rabbi Haninah ben Teradyon, burned with the Torah scroll. With inquiries to him from his daughter, his students, and the Roman executioner. Also, recognition of Beruriah, and her mission for Rabbi Meir to go get her sister out of the brothel. Plus, the question of the "incident with Beruriah."

Jesus! Literally. An appearance in some versions of the Talmud, but not all, as these passages were excised by the Jews -- in this case, as the known teacher of a student who has an encounter with Rabbi Eliezer -- which becomes relevant as he tries to figure out why he suffered arrest for heresy by the Romans. Also, the story of Hanina ben Teradyon (more than a Who's Who) - the passage that recounts what happened to him when he was arrested by the Romans and then killed by them.

Selling horses to idolaters: Because the horse can be used for labor that isn't subject to violation of Jewish law. Also, a new mishnah prohibiting the sale of wild animals that might cause public injury -- with exceptions when the animal wasn't a risk, for whatever reason. Plus, a prohibition against building structures that would house idolatry, though other building may be acceptable.

Another "previous page" mishnah! In a place where they had the practice to sell "small" domesticated animals - sheep and goats - to non-Jews, they were permitted to do so. And in places where they didn't have the practice - they were not allowed to. But large livestock was not permitted in either place. Though some allowed the sale in the event of some damage to the large animals. Plus, the concern of these work-animals working on Shabbat. Also, a Jew cannot keep their own large animals in the stable of a non-Jew's inn, because of concerns of bestiality - an uncomfortable concern to be sure. Also, the question of selling a cow via a broker vs. selling directly (which seems like it should be prohibited). To what extent must the Jew be conscientious about selling things to non-Jews who might use those same things in ways that are objectionable in Judaism (eg - animals that would work the land during a sabbatical year). With many permutations that seem to depend on the seller's clear assumptions about the buyer.

Another mishnah placed on the previous daf: Commercial prohibitions when attempting business with idolaters - but specifically all year long, and not just at the time of their festivals. Among the prohibited items to sell to these non-Jews is a white rooster - though if sold among other roosters, and with a clipped toe (so not perfect for sacrifice), then they may be sold. Plus, the question of selling a damaged white rooster to one who asks for it. Does that mean the non-Jews don't want to make this offering, or are they putting one over on the seller? Also, a much longer, more detailed tractate of Avodah Zarah in Abraham's time (Note: of the 400 chapters mentioned - "400" is generally understood in the Gemara as being the language of exaggeration).

Again, with the relevant mishnah on the previous daf: Buying from shops that are adorned for the non-Jewish pagan holiday was prohibited. Especially when the decorations were scented (eg - roses). Which leads to defining "benefit" - as deriving benefit is what is prohibited, while causing benefit is acceptable, or at least it can be. The concern isn't that of funding idolatry, but the Jew's benefit from idolatry. Plus, those who wore a wreath of roses - an idolatrous practice - received a reduced tax rate, but if you declined, then the extra tax would cover more idolatrous practice. Also, a discussion about not cutting the tendons of a sacred animal because it looks like you're inflicting a blemish on the animal -- but it doesn't just appear like you are; you really are! That prohibition against harming the animal is even - and specifically - in the case of an animal that can't be offered to begin with.

Starting with a new mishnah from the previous daf.... A festival for the non-Jews in the next town can allow for business if the celebration is not right there. Unless heading for the city is the only possible path, in which case, observing the festival seems to be the destination. Plus, there's a lack of concern that the Jews and non-Jews might intermingle their cooking utensils - a rabbinic prohibition, in an case -- for kashrut as a parallel case to the idolatry. Also, a traveler to a place where the festival is taking place - with various concerns about appearing to bow before an idol. Plus, a concern of "danger" - so drinking, for example, directly from the water source is not recommened.

On Onkelos the convert, who is known for translating the Torah, and also for his ability to convert Romans to Judaism, as his "gift of gab" shows on this daf. Also, the particulars of another pagan festival - with several component parts - as an example of the tension between the Jews and non-Jews over their holidays.

More on the festivals of the non-Jews, including, specifically, the coronation of their kings. With specific focus on the coronation of a king born of a king - except that the Romans didn't really function that way. So perhaps it was the king's birthday, not his coronation day? The Gemara attempts to unravel the terms. Also, Antoninus, about whom there are many stories with Rabbi Yehudah HaNasi, a caesar who hated the Jews, and the role of circumcision in defining the Jewish community. The link Yardaena mentions towards the end of the episode: https://thelehrhaus.com/scholarship/cutting-a-peace-the-story-of-ketiah-bar-shalom/

On the idea that the world's entirety is said to last 6,000 words. Also, if you aren't sure which year of the 7 years of the sabbatical cycle is current, the Gemara explains how to do the math to figure it out. Plus, the question of ushering in the messianic era.

A new mishnah! Listing the non-Jewish holidays, by name. Plus, other more local celebrations, based on the locale or a given family's rejoicing. Also, the story of Adam's first year, when the days were increasing in dark before the winter solstice, and his fear that it was a punishment - until the days started getting longer again. Also, with regard to Rome - and an allegiance with Israel for 26 years. Plus, the laws of penalties and R. Yehudah ben Bava's success in keeping those halakhot alive during the Hadrianic persecutions.

Organizing the halakhah from the mishnah, in accord with its various opinions. Including the principle of a single unattributed view that follows a machloket (dispute) - when is that view followed and when discarded? How significant is the order? And how close in terms of proximity do these statements need to be? Perhaps there's no "sequence" to the Mishnah... at least not from tractate to tractate... [Who's Who: Nachum the Mede]. Plus, dill and tithing.

Are the "3 days before the non-Jews' holidays" inclusive of the day of the holiday itself? Or really not? What about Sundays? Other holidays are named explicitly too. Also, what if you did do business with the non-Jews on these days? How temporary must a thing be? How guilty is the one who does this? Plus, Rabbi Yehudah HaNasi, consulting Resh Lakish on what to do with regard to this kind of case.

On sin and the purpose of sin! God allows sin to happen so that future sinners can repent. Consider the story of King David with Batsheva, with the implication that David wouldn't have done the sin were it not for his later repentance. Comparably, the sin of the Golden Calf. When an individual sin, we encourage reflection, repentance, and atonement. A group sin is a little more complicated, but the same principle stands. Plus, the differences between humans and angels, including, or especially, progeny. Plus, the harsh punishments for sin (for example, Rabbi Akiva). Also, a return to halakhah, with the question of why 3 days of not selling to non-Jews before their holidays (why not more or less)?

More on Jews and non-Jews -- how does God anger and how does He mete out punishment? Also, God's indignance during the day, which only Balaam the prophet knew how it was timed. Plus, the donkey gets the better of Balaam when he wants to hide the degree to which he relied on the donkey.

On the special relationship between God and the Jewish people, there's a recognition of the Jews as having kept the Torah -- and criticism by the non-Jews that perhaps the Jews hadn't actually been keeping the Torah. God is willing to testify on their part, but His testimony isn't considered legitimate because of God's bias, as it were, for treating Israel as a son. So God calls the heavens and earth as witnesses -- but they are also considered suspect. Finally, God points to the non-Jewish nations of the world themselves. Plus, a reference back to preparation for Shabbat from Shabbat eve... and the granting of one small mitzvah for the non-Jews, who apparently now want in on God's command. Also, converts to join the Jewish people were not accepted during the time of King David and King Solomon -- when things are so good that the likelihood of sincerity is that much diminished. At least, until they heard of the travails of the Children of Israel... and the war of Gog and Magog. Plus, God's laughter -- rare, hopeful, or limited in some ways? Plus, remembering Jerusalem.

A new tractate! A lot of material that is relevant when Jews live among non-Jews -- without delving into idolatry necessarily per se (though it will come up in the tractate, certainly). A new mishnah: For 3 days before the festivals of non-Jews, Jews are not supposed to do certain things that would make the non-Jews happy, lest they express gratitude to their pagan gods as part of the holiday. Which opens the question of whether a Jew could collect money - which might be painful, but also joyous down the road, for being rid of the debt. Plus, the Gemara delves into the spelling of the word that means their "holidays." Plus, there's no polity without a king -- a monarchy. Also, Rome as the most important of the non-Jewish nations (certainly at that time).

The last daf of the masekhet! And, interestingly enough, a new chapter (8)! With a new mishnah delineating the levels of responsibility for each of the 4 guardians, depending on the potential conflict (and need for an oath) with the original owner. Also, Gemara on the cases of the mishnah, including the disputes about how and when the guardians would take an oath.

Cases from the mishnah - when a customer asks the shopkeeper for X amount of produce. And then they dispute whether the customer every actually paid for the produce. Plus, a similar case with a money-changer and smaller coins for a dinar -- but did the customer hand over the dinar? Both cases are necessary. Also, orphans inheriting debt/payback from... orphans, instead of the original lender/borrower -- that is, pay close attention to who dies in which order.

If one or both parties to litigation are suspect with regard to oaths, they can't take oaths, so they divide the funds and carry on. But Rav Nachman said he didn't know the halakhah in this case - which was surprising, perhaps, but when push came to shove, he did determine this to be the practice too. Also, contradictory witnesses - 2 pairs - which are understand differently by Rav Huna and Rav Hisda.

Rabbi Yehudah's opinion is that a worker could take an oath for an employer (and collect the funds), and the Gemara works to figure out the source for this halakhah. But that kind of dispute can't be about wages... Also, in the name of Rabbi Yehudah - when someone leaves another home with objects concealed beneath his clothes - that's suspect (when he says he bought the items), unless it's actually not suspect for a whole host of potential reasons.