Podcast appearances and mentions of chuck most

Panel: Charles Max Wood Aimee Knight Chris Ferdinandi AJ O’Neal Special Guest: Andy Bell In this episode, the panel talks with Andy Bell who is an independent designer and developer who uses React, Vue, and Node. Today, the panelists and the guest talk about the power of progressive enhancements. Check it out! Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement: KENDO UI 0:34 – Chuck: Hi! Our panel is AJ, Aimee, Chris, myself and my new show is coming out in a few weeks, which is called the DevRev! It helps you with developer’s freedom! I am super excited. Our guest is Andy Bell. Introduce yourself, please. 2:00 – Guest: I am an independent designer and developer out in the U.K. 2:17 – Chuck: You wrote things about Vanilla.js. I am foreshadowing a few things and let’s talk about the power and progressive enhancement. 2:43 – The guest gives us definitions of power and progressive enhancements. He describes how it works. 3:10 – Chuck: I’ve heard that people would turn off JavaScript b/c it was security concern and then your progressive enhancement would make it work w/o JavaScript. I am sure there’s more than that? 3:28 – The guest talks about JavaScript, dependencies, among other things. 4:40 – Chuck: Your post did make that very clear I think. I am thinking I don’t even know where to start with this. Are people using the 6th version? How far back or what are we talking about here? 5:09 – Guest: You can go really far back and make it work w/o CSS. 5:49 – Chris: I am a big advocate of progressive enhancement – the pushback I get these days is that there is a divide; between the broadband era and AOL dialup. Are there compelling reasons why progressive enhancements even matter? 6:48 – Guest. 8:05 – Panel: My family lives out in the boonies. I am aware of 50% of American don’t have fast Internet. People don’t have access to fast browsers but I don’t think they are key metric users. 8:47 – Guest: It totally depends on what you need it for. It doesn’t matter if these people are paying or not. 9:31 – Chris: Assuming I have a commute on the trail and it goes through a spotty section. In a scenario that it’s dependent on the JS...are we talking about 2 different things here? 10:14 – Panelist chimes-in. 10:36 – Chris: I can take advantage of it even if I cannot afford a new machine. 10:55 – Panel: Where would this really matter to you? 11:05 – Chris: I do have a nice new laptop. 11:12 – Chuck: I had to hike up to the hill (near the house) to make a call and the connection was really poor (in OK). It’s not the norm but it can happen. 11:37 – Chris: Or how about the All Trails app when I am on the trail. 11:52 – Guest. 12:40 – Chris: I can remember at the time that the desktop sites it was popular to have... Chris: Most of those sites were inaccessible to me. 13:17 – Guest. 13:51 – Chuck: First-world countries will have a good connection and it’s not a big deal. If you are thinking though about your customers and where they live? Is that fair? I am thinking that my customers need to be able to access the podcast – what would you suggest? What are the things that you’d make sure is accessible to them. 14:31 – Guest: I like to pick on the minimum viable experience? I think to read the transcript is important than the audio (MP3). 15:47 – Chuck. 15:52 – Guest: It’s a lot easier with Vue b/c you don’t’ have to set aside rendering. 17:13 – AJ: I am thinking: that there is a way to start developing progressively and probably cheaper and easier to the person who is developing. If it saves us a buck and helps then we take action. 17:49 – Guest: It’s much easier if you start that way and if you enhance the feature itself. 18:38 – AJ: Let me ask: what are the situations where I wouldn’t / shouldn’t worry about progressive enhancements? 18:57 – Guest answers the question. 19:42 – AJ: I want people to feel motivated in a place WHERE to start. Something like a blog needs Java for comments. Hamburger menu is mentioned, too. 20:20 – Guest. 21:05 – Chris: Can we talk about code? 21:16 – Aimee: This is the direction I wanted to go. What do you mean by that – building your applications progressively? Aimee refers to his blog. 21:44 – Guest. 22:13 – Chuck: I use stock overflow! 22:20 – Guest. 22:24 – Chuck: I mean that’s what Chris uses! 22:33 – Guest (continues). 23:42 – Aimee. 23:54 – Chris. 24:09 – Chris 24:16 – Chris: Andy what do you think about that? 24:22 – Guest: Yes, that’s good. 24:35 – Chris: Where it falls apart is the resistance to progressive enhancements that it means that your approach has to be boring? 25:03 – Guest answers the question. The guest mentions modern CSS and modern JavaScript are mentioned along with tooling. 25:50 – Chuck: My issue is that when we talk about this (progressive enhancement) lowest common denominator and some user at some level (slow network) and then they can access it. Then the next level (better access) can access it. I start at the bottom and then go up. Then when they say progressive enhancement I get lost. Should I scrap it and then start over or what? 26:57 – Guest: If it’s feasible do it and then set a timeline up. 27:42 – Chuck: You are saying yes do it a layer at a time – but my question is HOW? What parts can I pair back? Are there guidelines to say: do this first and then how to test? 28:18 – Advertisement – Sentry.io 29:20 – Guest: Think about the user flow. What does the user want to do at THIS point? Do you need to work out the actual dependencies? 30:31 – Chuck: Is there a list of those capabilities somewhere? So these users can use it this way and these users can use it that way? 30:50 – Guest answers the question. 31:03 – Guest: You can pick out the big things. 31:30 – Chuck: I am using this feature in the browser... 31:41 – Guest. 31:46 – Chris: I think this differently than you Andy – I’ve stopped caring if a browser supports something new. I am fine using CSS grid and if your browser doesn’t support it then I don’t have a problem with that. I get hung up on, though if this fails can they still get the content? If they have no access to these – what should they be able to do? Note: “Cutting the Mustard Test” is mentioned. 33:37 – Guest. 33:44 – Chuck: Knowing your users and if it becomes a problem then I will figure it out. 34:00 – Chris: I couldn’t spare the time to make it happen right now b/c I am a one-man shop. 34:20 – Chuck and Chris go back-and-forth. 34:36 –Chris: Check out links below for my product. 34:54 – AJ: A lot of these things are in the name: progressive. 36:20 – Guest. 38:51 – Chris: Say that they haven’t looked at it all before. Do you mind talking about these things and what the heck is a web component? 39:14 – The guest gives us his definition of what a web component is. 40:02 – Chuck: Most recent episode in Angular about web components, but that was a few years ago. See links below for that episode. 40:25 – Aimee. 40:31 – Guest: Yes, it’s a lot like working in Vue and web components. The concepts are very similar. 41:22 – Chris: Can someone please give us an example? A literal slideshow example? 41:45 – Guest answers the question. 45:07 – Chris. 45:12 – Guest: It’s a framework that just happens to use web components and stuff to help. 45:54 – Chuck: Yeah they make it easier (Palmer). Yeah there is a crossover with Palmer team and other teams. I can say that b/c I have talked with people from both teams. Anything else? 46:39 – Chuck: Where do they go to learn more? 46:49 – Guest: Check out the Club! And my Twitter! (See links below.) 47:33 – Chuck: I want to shout-out about DevLifts that has $19 a month to help you with physical goals. Or you can get the premium slot! It’s terrific stuff. Sign-up with DEVCHAT code but there is a limited number of slots and there is a deadline, too. Just try it! They have a podcast, too! 49:16 – Aimee: Yeah, I’m on their podcast soon! 49:30 – Chuck: Picks! END – Advertisement: CacheFly! Links: JavaScript React Elixir Ember.js Vue GO jQuery Node.js Puppeteer Cypress Past episode: AiA 115 Past episode: JSJ 120 Vue.js – Slots Using templates and slots – Article Web Components Club GitHub: Pwa – Starter – Kit Progressively Enhanced Toggle Panel Time Ago in under 50 lines of JavaScript GitHub: ebook-boilerplate Chris Ferdinandi’s Go Make Things Site Game Chops CNBC – Trump Article New in Node v10.12 Quotes Archive My Amazon Interview Horror Story DevPal.io Honest Work Relative Paths DevLifts Andy Bell’s Twitter Andy’s Website Sponsors: DevLifts Kendo UI Sentry CacheFly Picks: Aimee Hacker News  -  Programming Quotes My Amazon Interview Horror Story Chris Time Ago in Under 50 Lines of JavaScript E-Book Boiler Plate JSJABBER at gomakethings.com AJ Experimental Drugs Bill My Browers FYI New In Node,10.12 Arcade Attack Charles Getacoderjob.com Self-Publishing School MF CEO podcast Andy Devpay.io Honest.work Relativepath.uk

Panel: Charles Max Wood Aimee Knight Chris Ferdinandi AJ O’Neal Special Guest: Andy Bell In this episode, the panel talks with Andy Bell who is an independent designer and developer who uses React, Vue, and Node. Today, the panelists and the guest talk about the power of progressive enhancements. Check it out! Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement: KENDO UI 0:34 – Chuck: Hi! Our panel is AJ, Aimee, Chris, myself and my new show is coming out in a few weeks, which is called the DevRev! It helps you with developer’s freedom! I am super excited. Our guest is Andy Bell. Introduce yourself, please. 2:00 – Guest: I am an independent designer and developer out in the U.K. 2:17 – Chuck: You wrote things about Vanilla.js. I am foreshadowing a few things and let’s talk about the power and progressive enhancement. 2:43 – The guest gives us definitions of power and progressive enhancements. He describes how it works. 3:10 – Chuck: I’ve heard that people would turn off JavaScript b/c it was security concern and then your progressive enhancement would make it work w/o JavaScript. I am sure there’s more than that? 3:28 – The guest talks about JavaScript, dependencies, among other things. 4:40 – Chuck: Your post did make that very clear I think. I am thinking I don’t even know where to start with this. Are people using the 6th version? How far back or what are we talking about here? 5:09 – Guest: You can go really far back and make it work w/o CSS. 5:49 – Chris: I am a big advocate of progressive enhancement – the pushback I get these days is that there is a divide; between the broadband era and AOL dialup. Are there compelling reasons why progressive enhancements even matter? 6:48 – Guest. 8:05 – Panel: My family lives out in the boonies. I am aware of 50% of American don’t have fast Internet. People don’t have access to fast browsers but I don’t think they are key metric users. 8:47 – Guest: It totally depends on what you need it for. It doesn’t matter if these people are paying or not. 9:31 – Chris: Assuming I have a commute on the trail and it goes through a spotty section. In a scenario that it’s dependent on the JS...are we talking about 2 different things here? 10:14 – Panelist chimes-in. 10:36 – Chris: I can take advantage of it even if I cannot afford a new machine. 10:55 – Panel: Where would this really matter to you? 11:05 – Chris: I do have a nice new laptop. 11:12 – Chuck: I had to hike up to the hill (near the house) to make a call and the connection was really poor (in OK). It’s not the norm but it can happen. 11:37 – Chris: Or how about the All Trails app when I am on the trail. 11:52 – Guest. 12:40 – Chris: I can remember at the time that the desktop sites it was popular to have... Chris: Most of those sites were inaccessible to me. 13:17 – Guest. 13:51 – Chuck: First-world countries will have a good connection and it’s not a big deal. If you are thinking though about your customers and where they live? Is that fair? I am thinking that my customers need to be able to access the podcast – what would you suggest? What are the things that you’d make sure is accessible to them. 14:31 – Guest: I like to pick on the minimum viable experience? I think to read the transcript is important than the audio (MP3). 15:47 – Chuck. 15:52 – Guest: It’s a lot easier with Vue b/c you don’t’ have to set aside rendering. 17:13 – AJ: I am thinking: that there is a way to start developing progressively and probably cheaper and easier to the person who is developing. If it saves us a buck and helps then we take action. 17:49 – Guest: It’s much easier if you start that way and if you enhance the feature itself. 18:38 – AJ: Let me ask: what are the situations where I wouldn’t / shouldn’t worry about progressive enhancements? 18:57 – Guest answers the question. 19:42 – AJ: I want people to feel motivated in a place WHERE to start. Something like a blog needs Java for comments. Hamburger menu is mentioned, too. 20:20 – Guest. 21:05 – Chris: Can we talk about code? 21:16 – Aimee: This is the direction I wanted to go. What do you mean by that – building your applications progressively? Aimee refers to his blog. 21:44 – Guest. 22:13 – Chuck: I use stock overflow! 22:20 – Guest. 22:24 – Chuck: I mean that’s what Chris uses! 22:33 – Guest (continues). 23:42 – Aimee. 23:54 – Chris. 24:09 – Chris 24:16 – Chris: Andy what do you think about that? 24:22 – Guest: Yes, that’s good. 24:35 – Chris: Where it falls apart is the resistance to progressive enhancements that it means that your approach has to be boring? 25:03 – Guest answers the question. The guest mentions modern CSS and modern JavaScript are mentioned along with tooling. 25:50 – Chuck: My issue is that when we talk about this (progressive enhancement) lowest common denominator and some user at some level (slow network) and then they can access it. Then the next level (better access) can access it. I start at the bottom and then go up. Then when they say progressive enhancement I get lost. Should I scrap it and then start over or what? 26:57 – Guest: If it’s feasible do it and then set a timeline up. 27:42 – Chuck: You are saying yes do it a layer at a time – but my question is HOW? What parts can I pair back? Are there guidelines to say: do this first and then how to test? 28:18 – Advertisement – Sentry.io 29:20 – Guest: Think about the user flow. What does the user want to do at THIS point? Do you need to work out the actual dependencies? 30:31 – Chuck: Is there a list of those capabilities somewhere? So these users can use it this way and these users can use it that way? 30:50 – Guest answers the question. 31:03 – Guest: You can pick out the big things. 31:30 – Chuck: I am using this feature in the browser... 31:41 – Guest. 31:46 – Chris: I think this differently than you Andy – I’ve stopped caring if a browser supports something new. I am fine using CSS grid and if your browser doesn’t support it then I don’t have a problem with that. I get hung up on, though if this fails can they still get the content? If they have no access to these – what should they be able to do? Note: “Cutting the Mustard Test” is mentioned. 33:37 – Guest. 33:44 – Chuck: Knowing your users and if it becomes a problem then I will figure it out. 34:00 – Chris: I couldn’t spare the time to make it happen right now b/c I am a one-man shop. 34:20 – Chuck and Chris go back-and-forth. 34:36 –Chris: Check out links below for my product. 34:54 – AJ: A lot of these things are in the name: progressive. 36:20 – Guest. 38:51 – Chris: Say that they haven’t looked at it all before. Do you mind talking about these things and what the heck is a web component? 39:14 – The guest gives us his definition of what a web component is. 40:02 – Chuck: Most recent episode in Angular about web components, but that was a few years ago. See links below for that episode. 40:25 – Aimee. 40:31 – Guest: Yes, it’s a lot like working in Vue and web components. The concepts are very similar. 41:22 – Chris: Can someone please give us an example? A literal slideshow example? 41:45 – Guest answers the question. 45:07 – Chris. 45:12 – Guest: It’s a framework that just happens to use web components and stuff to help. 45:54 – Chuck: Yeah they make it easier (Palmer). Yeah there is a crossover with Palmer team and other teams. I can say that b/c I have talked with people from both teams. Anything else? 46:39 – Chuck: Where do they go to learn more? 46:49 – Guest: Check out the Club! And my Twitter! (See links below.) 47:33 – Chuck: I want to shout-out about DevLifts that has $19 a month to help you with physical goals. Or you can get the premium slot! It’s terrific stuff. Sign-up with DEVCHAT code but there is a limited number of slots and there is a deadline, too. Just try it! They have a podcast, too! 49:16 – Aimee: Yeah, I’m on their podcast soon! 49:30 – Chuck: Picks! END – Advertisement: CacheFly! Links: JavaScript React Elixir Ember.js Vue GO jQuery Node.js Puppeteer Cypress Past episode: AiA 115 Past episode: JSJ 120 Vue.js – Slots Using templates and slots – Article Web Components Club GitHub: Pwa – Starter – Kit Progressively Enhanced Toggle Panel Time Ago in under 50 lines of JavaScript GitHub: ebook-boilerplate Chris Ferdinandi’s Go Make Things Site Game Chops CNBC – Trump Article New in Node v10.12 Quotes Archive My Amazon Interview Horror Story DevPal.io Honest Work Relative Paths DevLifts Andy Bell’s Twitter Andy’s Website Sponsors: DevLifts Kendo UI Sentry CacheFly Picks: Aimee Hacker News  -  Programming Quotes My Amazon Interview Horror Story Chris Time Ago in Under 50 Lines of JavaScript E-Book Boiler Plate JSJABBER at gomakethings.com AJ Experimental Drugs Bill My Browers FYI New In Node,10.12 Arcade Attack Charles Getacoderjob.com Self-Publishing School MF CEO podcast Andy Devpay.io Honest.work Relativepath.uk

Panel: Charles Max Wood Aimee Knight Chris Ferdinandi AJ O’Neal Special Guest: Andy Bell In this episode, the panel talks with Andy Bell who is an independent designer and developer who uses React, Vue, and Node. Today, the panelists and the guest talk about the power of progressive enhancements. Check it out! Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement: KENDO UI 0:34 – Chuck: Hi! Our panel is AJ, Aimee, Chris, myself and my new show is coming out in a few weeks, which is called the DevRev! It helps you with developer’s freedom! I am super excited. Our guest is Andy Bell. Introduce yourself, please. 2:00 – Guest: I am an independent designer and developer out in the U.K. 2:17 – Chuck: You wrote things about Vanilla.js. I am foreshadowing a few things and let’s talk about the power and progressive enhancement. 2:43 – The guest gives us definitions of power and progressive enhancements. He describes how it works. 3:10 – Chuck: I’ve heard that people would turn off JavaScript b/c it was security concern and then your progressive enhancement would make it work w/o JavaScript. I am sure there’s more than that? 3:28 – The guest talks about JavaScript, dependencies, among other things. 4:40 – Chuck: Your post did make that very clear I think. I am thinking I don’t even know where to start with this. Are people using the 6th version? How far back or what are we talking about here? 5:09 – Guest: You can go really far back and make it work w/o CSS. 5:49 – Chris: I am a big advocate of progressive enhancement – the pushback I get these days is that there is a divide; between the broadband era and AOL dialup. Are there compelling reasons why progressive enhancements even matter? 6:48 – Guest. 8:05 – Panel: My family lives out in the boonies. I am aware of 50% of American don’t have fast Internet. People don’t have access to fast browsers but I don’t think they are key metric users. 8:47 – Guest: It totally depends on what you need it for. It doesn’t matter if these people are paying or not. 9:31 – Chris: Assuming I have a commute on the trail and it goes through a spotty section. In a scenario that it’s dependent on the JS...are we talking about 2 different things here? 10:14 – Panelist chimes-in. 10:36 – Chris: I can take advantage of it even if I cannot afford a new machine. 10:55 – Panel: Where would this really matter to you? 11:05 – Chris: I do have a nice new laptop. 11:12 – Chuck: I had to hike up to the hill (near the house) to make a call and the connection was really poor (in OK). It’s not the norm but it can happen. 11:37 – Chris: Or how about the All Trails app when I am on the trail. 11:52 – Guest. 12:40 – Chris: I can remember at the time that the desktop sites it was popular to have... Chris: Most of those sites were inaccessible to me. 13:17 – Guest. 13:51 – Chuck: First-world countries will have a good connection and it’s not a big deal. If you are thinking though about your customers and where they live? Is that fair? I am thinking that my customers need to be able to access the podcast – what would you suggest? What are the things that you’d make sure is accessible to them. 14:31 – Guest: I like to pick on the minimum viable experience? I think to read the transcript is important than the audio (MP3). 15:47 – Chuck. 15:52 – Guest: It’s a lot easier with Vue b/c you don’t’ have to set aside rendering. 17:13 – AJ: I am thinking: that there is a way to start developing progressively and probably cheaper and easier to the person who is developing. If it saves us a buck and helps then we take action. 17:49 – Guest: It’s much easier if you start that way and if you enhance the feature itself. 18:38 – AJ: Let me ask: what are the situations where I wouldn’t / shouldn’t worry about progressive enhancements? 18:57 – Guest answers the question. 19:42 – AJ: I want people to feel motivated in a place WHERE to start. Something like a blog needs Java for comments. Hamburger menu is mentioned, too. 20:20 – Guest. 21:05 – Chris: Can we talk about code? 21:16 – Aimee: This is the direction I wanted to go. What do you mean by that – building your applications progressively? Aimee refers to his blog. 21:44 – Guest. 22:13 – Chuck: I use stock overflow! 22:20 – Guest. 22:24 – Chuck: I mean that’s what Chris uses! 22:33 – Guest (continues). 23:42 – Aimee. 23:54 – Chris. 24:09 – Chris 24:16 – Chris: Andy what do you think about that? 24:22 – Guest: Yes, that’s good. 24:35 – Chris: Where it falls apart is the resistance to progressive enhancements that it means that your approach has to be boring? 25:03 – Guest answers the question. The guest mentions modern CSS and modern JavaScript are mentioned along with tooling. 25:50 – Chuck: My issue is that when we talk about this (progressive enhancement) lowest common denominator and some user at some level (slow network) and then they can access it. Then the next level (better access) can access it. I start at the bottom and then go up. Then when they say progressive enhancement I get lost. Should I scrap it and then start over or what? 26:57 – Guest: If it’s feasible do it and then set a timeline up. 27:42 – Chuck: You are saying yes do it a layer at a time – but my question is HOW? What parts can I pair back? Are there guidelines to say: do this first and then how to test? 28:18 – Advertisement – Sentry.io 29:20 – Guest: Think about the user flow. What does the user want to do at THIS point? Do you need to work out the actual dependencies? 30:31 – Chuck: Is there a list of those capabilities somewhere? So these users can use it this way and these users can use it that way? 30:50 – Guest answers the question. 31:03 – Guest: You can pick out the big things. 31:30 – Chuck: I am using this feature in the browser... 31:41 – Guest. 31:46 – Chris: I think this differently than you Andy – I’ve stopped caring if a browser supports something new. I am fine using CSS grid and if your browser doesn’t support it then I don’t have a problem with that. I get hung up on, though if this fails can they still get the content? If they have no access to these – what should they be able to do? Note: “Cutting the Mustard Test” is mentioned. 33:37 – Guest. 33:44 – Chuck: Knowing your users and if it becomes a problem then I will figure it out. 34:00 – Chris: I couldn’t spare the time to make it happen right now b/c I am a one-man shop. 34:20 – Chuck and Chris go back-and-forth. 34:36 –Chris: Check out links below for my product. 34:54 – AJ: A lot of these things are in the name: progressive. 36:20 – Guest. 38:51 – Chris: Say that they haven’t looked at it all before. Do you mind talking about these things and what the heck is a web component? 39:14 – The guest gives us his definition of what a web component is. 40:02 – Chuck: Most recent episode in Angular about web components, but that was a few years ago. See links below for that episode. 40:25 – Aimee. 40:31 – Guest: Yes, it’s a lot like working in Vue and web components. The concepts are very similar. 41:22 – Chris: Can someone please give us an example? A literal slideshow example? 41:45 – Guest answers the question. 45:07 – Chris. 45:12 – Guest: It’s a framework that just happens to use web components and stuff to help. 45:54 – Chuck: Yeah they make it easier (Palmer). Yeah there is a crossover with Palmer team and other teams. I can say that b/c I have talked with people from both teams. Anything else? 46:39 – Chuck: Where do they go to learn more? 46:49 – Guest: Check out the Club! And my Twitter! (See links below.) 47:33 – Chuck: I want to shout-out about DevLifts that has $19 a month to help you with physical goals. Or you can get the premium slot! It’s terrific stuff. Sign-up with DEVCHAT code but there is a limited number of slots and there is a deadline, too. Just try it! They have a podcast, too! 49:16 – Aimee: Yeah, I’m on their podcast soon! 49:30 – Chuck: Picks! END – Advertisement: CacheFly! Links: JavaScript React Elixir Ember.js Vue GO jQuery Node.js Puppeteer Cypress Past episode: AiA 115 Past episode: JSJ 120 Vue.js – Slots Using templates and slots – Article Web Components Club GitHub: Pwa – Starter – Kit Progressively Enhanced Toggle Panel Time Ago in under 50 lines of JavaScript GitHub: ebook-boilerplate Chris Ferdinandi’s Go Make Things Site Game Chops CNBC – Trump Article New in Node v10.12 Quotes Archive My Amazon Interview Horror Story DevPal.io Honest Work Relative Paths DevLifts Andy Bell’s Twitter Andy’s Website Sponsors: DevLifts Kendo UI Sentry CacheFly Picks: Aimee Hacker News  -  Programming Quotes My Amazon Interview Horror Story Chris Time Ago in Under 50 Lines of JavaScript E-Book Boiler Plate JSJABBER at gomakethings.com AJ Experimental Drugs Bill My Browers FYI New In Node,10.12 Arcade Attack Charles Getacoderjob.com Self-Publishing School MF CEO podcast Andy Devpay.io Honest.work Relativepath.uk

Panel: Aimee Knight AJ O’Neal Charles Max Wood Special Guest: PJ Evans In this episode, the panel talks with PJ Evans who is a course developer and an instructor through Manning’s course titled, “Node.js in Motion.” This course is great to learn the fundamentals of Node, which you can check out here! The panel and PJ talk about this course, his background, and current projects that PJ is working on. Check out today’s episode to hear more! Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement: KENDO UI 0:36 – Chuck: Welcome and our panel consists of Aimee, AJ, myself, and our special guest is PJ Evans. Tell us about yourself and your video course! NODE JS in Motion is the title of the course. Can you tell us more? 1:29 – PJ: It’s a fantastic course. 2:25 – Chuck: You built this course and there is a lot to talk about. 2:36 – Aimee: Let’s talk about Node and the current state.  2:50 – Chuck: Here’s the latest features, but let’s talk about where do you start with this course? How do you get going with Node? What do people need to know with Node? 3:20 – Aimee. 3:24 – PJ talks about Node and his course! 4:02 – PJ: The biggest headache with Node is the... 4:13 – Chuck. 4:19 – PJ: I am sure a lot of the listeners are familiar with callback hell. 4:50 – Aimee: Let’s talk about the complexities of module support in Node! 5:10 – PJ: It’s a horrible mess. 5:17 – Aimee: Maybe not the tech details but let’s talk about WHAT the problem is? 5:31 – PJ: You are talking about Proper Native ES6 right? They are arguing about how to implement it.  6:11 – PJ: My advice is (if you are a professional) is to stick with the LT6 program. No matter how tensing those new features are! 6:46 – Aimee: It could be outdated but they had to come back and say that there were tons of complexities and we have to figure out how to get there. 7:06 – PJ: They haven’t found an elegant way to do it. 7:15 – Panel: If it’s a standard why talk about it? Seriously – if this is a standard why not implement THE standard? 7:38 – PJ. 8:11 – Panel. 8:17 – Aimee: I would love to talk about this, though! 8:24 – Chuck: I want to talk about the course, please. 8:30 – PJ. 8:54 – Chuck: We will keep an eye on it. 9:05 – PJ. 9:16 – PJ: How is it on the browser-side? 9:33 – Aimee: I don’t want to misspeak. 9:41 – Chuck: I don’t know how complete the forms are. 9:49 – Aimee: I don’t want to misspeak. 9:56 – PJ: I just found the page that I wanted and they are calling it the .MJS or aka the Michael Jackson Script. You can do an import from... Some people think it’s FINE and others think that it’s a TERRIBLE idea. 10:42 – Chuck: “It sounds like it’s a real THRILLER!” 10:52 – Panel. 11:25 – Panel: When you start calling things the Michael Jackson Solution you know things aren’t well. 11:44 – Aimee: Just to clarify for users... 11:57 – Chuck: I want to point us towards the course: NODE.JS. Chuck asks two questions. 12:34 – PJ: The concepts aren’t changing, but the information is changing incredibly fast. The fundamentals are fairly settled. 13:22 – Chuck: What are those things? 13:28 – PJ talks about how he structured the course and he talks about the specifics. 15:33 – Chuck: Most of my backend stuff is done in Ruby. Aimee and AJ do more Java then I do. 15:55 – Panel: I think there is something to understanding how different Node is. I think that Node is a very fast moving train. Node has a safe place and that it’s good for people to know about this space. 16:34 – Aimee: Not everyone learns this way, but for me I like to understand WHY I would want to use Node and not another tool. For me, this talk in the show notes really helped me a lot. That’s the core and the nature of NODE. 17:21 – PJ: Yes, absolutely. Understanding the event loop and that’s aimed more towards people from other back ends. Right from the beginning we go over that detail: Here is how it works, we give them examples, and more. 18:08 – Aimee: You can do more than just create APIs. Aimee mentions Vanilla Node. 18:50 – PJ: To get into frameworks we do a 3-line server. We cover express, and also Sequelize ORM. 19:45 – Advertisement – Sentry.io 20:43 – Chuck: I never used Pug. 20:45 – PJ: PUG used to be called JADE. 20:56 – Aimee. 21:14 – PJ: Express does that for you and I agree with you. I advocate a non-scripted approach, I like when frameworks have a light touch. 22:05 – Aimee: That’s what I liked about it. No offense, Chuck, but for me I didn’t like NOT knowing a lot of what was not happening under the hood. I didn’t want to reinvent the wheel, but I wanted to build at a lower level. 22:40 – PJ: I had the same experience. I wanted to figure out why something wasn’t working. 23:24 – Panel: I had a friend who used Rails...he was cautious to make a switch. This past year he was blown away with how much simpler it was and how fast things were. 24:05 – Aimee: I feel like if you want to learn JavaScript then Node might be easier on the frontend. 24:21 – Chuck: No pun intended. No, but I agree. I like about Rails is that you had well-understood patterns. But the flipside is that you have abstractions... To a certain degree: what did I do wrong? And you didn’t follow the pattern properly. 25:57 – Panel: With Node you get a little bit of both. To me it’s a more simple approach, but the downside is that you have 100’s of 1,000’s of modules that almost identical things. When you start reaching out to NPM that... 26:29 – PJ: Yes the module system of NPM is the best/worst thing about NODE. I don’t have an answer, honestly. There is a great article written that made me turn white. Here is the article! 28:12 – Panel: The same thing happened with the ESLint. That was the very problem that he was describing in the article. 28:50 – PJ: Yep, I put that in the chat there – go ahead and read it! It’s not a problem that’s specific to Node, there are others. It’s the way we do things now. 29:23 – Chuck: We have the NODE Security project. A lot of stuff go into NPM everyday. 29:43 – PJ: We cover those things in the course. 29:53 – Chuck: It’s the reality. Is there a place that people get stuck? 30:00 – PJ answers the question. 30:23 – Aimee. 30:55 – PJ: I am coding very similar to my PHP days. 31:20 – Aimee. 32:02 – PJ: To finish off my point, I hope people don’t loose sight. 32:18 – Aimee. 32:20 – PJ: I am working on a project that has thousands of requests for... 32:53 – Chuck: Anything you WANTED to put into the course, but didn’t have time to? 33:05 – PJ: You can get pretty technical. It’s not an advanced course, and it won’t turn you into a rock star. This is all about confidence building. It’s to understand the fundamentals. It’s a runtime of 6 hours and 40 minutes – you aren’t just watching a video. You have a transcript, too, running off on the side. You can sit there and type it out w/o leaving – so it’s a very interactive course. 34:26 – Chuck: You get people over the hump. What do you think people need to know to be successful with Node? 34:38 – PJ answers the question. PJ: I think it’s a lot of practice and the student to go off and be curious on their own terms. 35:13 – Chuck: You talked about callbacks – I am thinking that one is there to manage the other? 35:31 – PJ answers the question. PJ: You do what works for you – pick your style – do it as long as people can follow you. Take the analogy of building a bridge. 36:53 – Chuck: What are you working on now? 37:00 – PJ: Educational tool called SCHOOL PLANNER launched in Ireland, so teachers can do their lesson planning for the year and being built with Express. Google Classroom and Google Calendar. 39:01 – PJ talks about Pi and 4wd. See links below. 40:09 – Node can be used all over the place! 40:16  - Chuck: Yes, the same can be said for other languages. Yes, Node is in the same space. 40:31 – PJ: Yep! 40:33 – Chuck: If people want to find you online where can they find you? 40:45 – PJ: Twitter! Blog! 41:04 – Picks! 41:05 – Advertisement – eBook: Get a coder job! Links: JavaScript jQuery React Elixir Elm Vue ESLint Node.js Node Security Project Node Security Project - Medium Manning Publications: Course by PJ Evans PUG JSConf EU – talk with Philip Roberts Medium Article by David Gilbertson Hackster.io – Pi Car Pi Moroni Holding a Program in One’s Head PJ Evans’ Twitter Sponsors: Kendo UI Sentry Cache Fly Get a Coder Job Picks: Aimee Paul Graham - Blog AJ Rust Charles Tweet Mash-up The Diabetes Code PJ Music - Max Richter

Panel: Aimee Knight AJ O’Neal Charles Max Wood Special Guest: PJ Evans In this episode, the panel talks with PJ Evans who is a course developer and an instructor through Manning’s course titled, “Node.js in Motion.” This course is great to learn the fundamentals of Node, which you can check out here! The panel and PJ talk about this course, his background, and current projects that PJ is working on. Check out today’s episode to hear more! Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement: KENDO UI 0:36 – Chuck: Welcome and our panel consists of Aimee, AJ, myself, and our special guest is PJ Evans. Tell us about yourself and your video course! NODE JS in Motion is the title of the course. Can you tell us more? 1:29 – PJ: It’s a fantastic course. 2:25 – Chuck: You built this course and there is a lot to talk about. 2:36 – Aimee: Let’s talk about Node and the current state.  2:50 – Chuck: Here’s the latest features, but let’s talk about where do you start with this course? How do you get going with Node? What do people need to know with Node? 3:20 – Aimee. 3:24 – PJ talks about Node and his course! 4:02 – PJ: The biggest headache with Node is the... 4:13 – Chuck. 4:19 – PJ: I am sure a lot of the listeners are familiar with callback hell. 4:50 – Aimee: Let’s talk about the complexities of module support in Node! 5:10 – PJ: It’s a horrible mess. 5:17 – Aimee: Maybe not the tech details but let’s talk about WHAT the problem is? 5:31 – PJ: You are talking about Proper Native ES6 right? They are arguing about how to implement it.  6:11 – PJ: My advice is (if you are a professional) is to stick with the LT6 program. No matter how tensing those new features are! 6:46 – Aimee: It could be outdated but they had to come back and say that there were tons of complexities and we have to figure out how to get there. 7:06 – PJ: They haven’t found an elegant way to do it. 7:15 – Panel: If it’s a standard why talk about it? Seriously – if this is a standard why not implement THE standard? 7:38 – PJ. 8:11 – Panel. 8:17 – Aimee: I would love to talk about this, though! 8:24 – Chuck: I want to talk about the course, please. 8:30 – PJ. 8:54 – Chuck: We will keep an eye on it. 9:05 – PJ. 9:16 – PJ: How is it on the browser-side? 9:33 – Aimee: I don’t want to misspeak. 9:41 – Chuck: I don’t know how complete the forms are. 9:49 – Aimee: I don’t want to misspeak. 9:56 – PJ: I just found the page that I wanted and they are calling it the .MJS or aka the Michael Jackson Script. You can do an import from... Some people think it’s FINE and others think that it’s a TERRIBLE idea. 10:42 – Chuck: “It sounds like it’s a real THRILLER!” 10:52 – Panel. 11:25 – Panel: When you start calling things the Michael Jackson Solution you know things aren’t well. 11:44 – Aimee: Just to clarify for users... 11:57 – Chuck: I want to point us towards the course: NODE.JS. Chuck asks two questions. 12:34 – PJ: The concepts aren’t changing, but the information is changing incredibly fast. The fundamentals are fairly settled. 13:22 – Chuck: What are those things? 13:28 – PJ talks about how he structured the course and he talks about the specifics. 15:33 – Chuck: Most of my backend stuff is done in Ruby. Aimee and AJ do more Java then I do. 15:55 – Panel: I think there is something to understanding how different Node is. I think that Node is a very fast moving train. Node has a safe place and that it’s good for people to know about this space. 16:34 – Aimee: Not everyone learns this way, but for me I like to understand WHY I would want to use Node and not another tool. For me, this talk in the show notes really helped me a lot. That’s the core and the nature of NODE. 17:21 – PJ: Yes, absolutely. Understanding the event loop and that’s aimed more towards people from other back ends. Right from the beginning we go over that detail: Here is how it works, we give them examples, and more. 18:08 – Aimee: You can do more than just create APIs. Aimee mentions Vanilla Node. 18:50 – PJ: To get into frameworks we do a 3-line server. We cover express, and also Sequelize ORM. 19:45 – Advertisement – Sentry.io 20:43 – Chuck: I never used Pug. 20:45 – PJ: PUG used to be called JADE. 20:56 – Aimee. 21:14 – PJ: Express does that for you and I agree with you. I advocate a non-scripted approach, I like when frameworks have a light touch. 22:05 – Aimee: That’s what I liked about it. No offense, Chuck, but for me I didn’t like NOT knowing a lot of what was not happening under the hood. I didn’t want to reinvent the wheel, but I wanted to build at a lower level. 22:40 – PJ: I had the same experience. I wanted to figure out why something wasn’t working. 23:24 – Panel: I had a friend who used Rails...he was cautious to make a switch. This past year he was blown away with how much simpler it was and how fast things were. 24:05 – Aimee: I feel like if you want to learn JavaScript then Node might be easier on the frontend. 24:21 – Chuck: No pun intended. No, but I agree. I like about Rails is that you had well-understood patterns. But the flipside is that you have abstractions... To a certain degree: what did I do wrong? And you didn’t follow the pattern properly. 25:57 – Panel: With Node you get a little bit of both. To me it’s a more simple approach, but the downside is that you have 100’s of 1,000’s of modules that almost identical things. When you start reaching out to NPM that... 26:29 – PJ: Yes the module system of NPM is the best/worst thing about NODE. I don’t have an answer, honestly. There is a great article written that made me turn white. Here is the article! 28:12 – Panel: The same thing happened with the ESLint. That was the very problem that he was describing in the article. 28:50 – PJ: Yep, I put that in the chat there – go ahead and read it! It’s not a problem that’s specific to Node, there are others. It’s the way we do things now. 29:23 – Chuck: We have the NODE Security project. A lot of stuff go into NPM everyday. 29:43 – PJ: We cover those things in the course. 29:53 – Chuck: It’s the reality. Is there a place that people get stuck? 30:00 – PJ answers the question. 30:23 – Aimee. 30:55 – PJ: I am coding very similar to my PHP days. 31:20 – Aimee. 32:02 – PJ: To finish off my point, I hope people don’t loose sight. 32:18 – Aimee. 32:20 – PJ: I am working on a project that has thousands of requests for... 32:53 – Chuck: Anything you WANTED to put into the course, but didn’t have time to? 33:05 – PJ: You can get pretty technical. It’s not an advanced course, and it won’t turn you into a rock star. This is all about confidence building. It’s to understand the fundamentals. It’s a runtime of 6 hours and 40 minutes – you aren’t just watching a video. You have a transcript, too, running off on the side. You can sit there and type it out w/o leaving – so it’s a very interactive course. 34:26 – Chuck: You get people over the hump. What do you think people need to know to be successful with Node? 34:38 – PJ answers the question. PJ: I think it’s a lot of practice and the student to go off and be curious on their own terms. 35:13 – Chuck: You talked about callbacks – I am thinking that one is there to manage the other? 35:31 – PJ answers the question. PJ: You do what works for you – pick your style – do it as long as people can follow you. Take the analogy of building a bridge. 36:53 – Chuck: What are you working on now? 37:00 – PJ: Educational tool called SCHOOL PLANNER launched in Ireland, so teachers can do their lesson planning for the year and being built with Express. Google Classroom and Google Calendar. 39:01 – PJ talks about Pi and 4wd. See links below. 40:09 – Node can be used all over the place! 40:16  - Chuck: Yes, the same can be said for other languages. Yes, Node is in the same space. 40:31 – PJ: Yep! 40:33 – Chuck: If people want to find you online where can they find you? 40:45 – PJ: Twitter! Blog! 41:04 – Picks! 41:05 – Advertisement – eBook: Get a coder job! Links: JavaScript jQuery React Elixir Elm Vue ESLint Node.js Node Security Project Node Security Project - Medium Manning Publications: Course by PJ Evans PUG JSConf EU – talk with Philip Roberts Medium Article by David Gilbertson Hackster.io – Pi Car Pi Moroni Holding a Program in One’s Head PJ Evans’ Twitter Sponsors: Kendo UI Sentry Cache Fly Get a Coder Job Picks: Aimee Paul Graham - Blog AJ Rust Charles Tweet Mash-up The Diabetes Code PJ Music - Max Richter

Panel: Aimee Knight AJ O’Neal Charles Max Wood Special Guest: PJ Evans In this episode, the panel talks with PJ Evans who is a course developer and an instructor through Manning’s course titled, “Node.js in Motion.” This course is great to learn the fundamentals of Node, which you can check out here! The panel and PJ talk about this course, his background, and current projects that PJ is working on. Check out today’s episode to hear more! Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement: KENDO UI 0:36 – Chuck: Welcome and our panel consists of Aimee, AJ, myself, and our special guest is PJ Evans. Tell us about yourself and your video course! NODE JS in Motion is the title of the course. Can you tell us more? 1:29 – PJ: It’s a fantastic course. 2:25 – Chuck: You built this course and there is a lot to talk about. 2:36 – Aimee: Let’s talk about Node and the current state.  2:50 – Chuck: Here’s the latest features, but let’s talk about where do you start with this course? How do you get going with Node? What do people need to know with Node? 3:20 – Aimee. 3:24 – PJ talks about Node and his course! 4:02 – PJ: The biggest headache with Node is the... 4:13 – Chuck. 4:19 – PJ: I am sure a lot of the listeners are familiar with callback hell. 4:50 – Aimee: Let’s talk about the complexities of module support in Node! 5:10 – PJ: It’s a horrible mess. 5:17 – Aimee: Maybe not the tech details but let’s talk about WHAT the problem is? 5:31 – PJ: You are talking about Proper Native ES6 right? They are arguing about how to implement it.  6:11 – PJ: My advice is (if you are a professional) is to stick with the LT6 program. No matter how tensing those new features are! 6:46 – Aimee: It could be outdated but they had to come back and say that there were tons of complexities and we have to figure out how to get there. 7:06 – PJ: They haven’t found an elegant way to do it. 7:15 – Panel: If it’s a standard why talk about it? Seriously – if this is a standard why not implement THE standard? 7:38 – PJ. 8:11 – Panel. 8:17 – Aimee: I would love to talk about this, though! 8:24 – Chuck: I want to talk about the course, please. 8:30 – PJ. 8:54 – Chuck: We will keep an eye on it. 9:05 – PJ. 9:16 – PJ: How is it on the browser-side? 9:33 – Aimee: I don’t want to misspeak. 9:41 – Chuck: I don’t know how complete the forms are. 9:49 – Aimee: I don’t want to misspeak. 9:56 – PJ: I just found the page that I wanted and they are calling it the .MJS or aka the Michael Jackson Script. You can do an import from... Some people think it’s FINE and others think that it’s a TERRIBLE idea. 10:42 – Chuck: “It sounds like it’s a real THRILLER!” 10:52 – Panel. 11:25 – Panel: When you start calling things the Michael Jackson Solution you know things aren’t well. 11:44 – Aimee: Just to clarify for users... 11:57 – Chuck: I want to point us towards the course: NODE.JS. Chuck asks two questions. 12:34 – PJ: The concepts aren’t changing, but the information is changing incredibly fast. The fundamentals are fairly settled. 13:22 – Chuck: What are those things? 13:28 – PJ talks about how he structured the course and he talks about the specifics. 15:33 – Chuck: Most of my backend stuff is done in Ruby. Aimee and AJ do more Java then I do. 15:55 – Panel: I think there is something to understanding how different Node is. I think that Node is a very fast moving train. Node has a safe place and that it’s good for people to know about this space. 16:34 – Aimee: Not everyone learns this way, but for me I like to understand WHY I would want to use Node and not another tool. For me, this talk in the show notes really helped me a lot. That’s the core and the nature of NODE. 17:21 – PJ: Yes, absolutely. Understanding the event loop and that’s aimed more towards people from other back ends. Right from the beginning we go over that detail: Here is how it works, we give them examples, and more. 18:08 – Aimee: You can do more than just create APIs. Aimee mentions Vanilla Node. 18:50 – PJ: To get into frameworks we do a 3-line server. We cover express, and also Sequelize ORM. 19:45 – Advertisement – Sentry.io 20:43 – Chuck: I never used Pug. 20:45 – PJ: PUG used to be called JADE. 20:56 – Aimee. 21:14 – PJ: Express does that for you and I agree with you. I advocate a non-scripted approach, I like when frameworks have a light touch. 22:05 – Aimee: That’s what I liked about it. No offense, Chuck, but for me I didn’t like NOT knowing a lot of what was not happening under the hood. I didn’t want to reinvent the wheel, but I wanted to build at a lower level. 22:40 – PJ: I had the same experience. I wanted to figure out why something wasn’t working. 23:24 – Panel: I had a friend who used Rails...he was cautious to make a switch. This past year he was blown away with how much simpler it was and how fast things were. 24:05 – Aimee: I feel like if you want to learn JavaScript then Node might be easier on the frontend. 24:21 – Chuck: No pun intended. No, but I agree. I like about Rails is that you had well-understood patterns. But the flipside is that you have abstractions... To a certain degree: what did I do wrong? And you didn’t follow the pattern properly. 25:57 – Panel: With Node you get a little bit of both. To me it’s a more simple approach, but the downside is that you have 100’s of 1,000’s of modules that almost identical things. When you start reaching out to NPM that... 26:29 – PJ: Yes the module system of NPM is the best/worst thing about NODE. I don’t have an answer, honestly. There is a great article written that made me turn white. Here is the article! 28:12 – Panel: The same thing happened with the ESLint. That was the very problem that he was describing in the article. 28:50 – PJ: Yep, I put that in the chat there – go ahead and read it! It’s not a problem that’s specific to Node, there are others. It’s the way we do things now. 29:23 – Chuck: We have the NODE Security project. A lot of stuff go into NPM everyday. 29:43 – PJ: We cover those things in the course. 29:53 – Chuck: It’s the reality. Is there a place that people get stuck? 30:00 – PJ answers the question. 30:23 – Aimee. 30:55 – PJ: I am coding very similar to my PHP days. 31:20 – Aimee. 32:02 – PJ: To finish off my point, I hope people don’t loose sight. 32:18 – Aimee. 32:20 – PJ: I am working on a project that has thousands of requests for... 32:53 – Chuck: Anything you WANTED to put into the course, but didn’t have time to? 33:05 – PJ: You can get pretty technical. It’s not an advanced course, and it won’t turn you into a rock star. This is all about confidence building. It’s to understand the fundamentals. It’s a runtime of 6 hours and 40 minutes – you aren’t just watching a video. You have a transcript, too, running off on the side. You can sit there and type it out w/o leaving – so it’s a very interactive course. 34:26 – Chuck: You get people over the hump. What do you think people need to know to be successful with Node? 34:38 – PJ answers the question. PJ: I think it’s a lot of practice and the student to go off and be curious on their own terms. 35:13 – Chuck: You talked about callbacks – I am thinking that one is there to manage the other? 35:31 – PJ answers the question. PJ: You do what works for you – pick your style – do it as long as people can follow you. Take the analogy of building a bridge. 36:53 – Chuck: What are you working on now? 37:00 – PJ: Educational tool called SCHOOL PLANNER launched in Ireland, so teachers can do their lesson planning for the year and being built with Express. Google Classroom and Google Calendar. 39:01 – PJ talks about Pi and 4wd. See links below. 40:09 – Node can be used all over the place! 40:16  - Chuck: Yes, the same can be said for other languages. Yes, Node is in the same space. 40:31 – PJ: Yep! 40:33 – Chuck: If people want to find you online where can they find you? 40:45 – PJ: Twitter! Blog! 41:04 – Picks! 41:05 – Advertisement – eBook: Get a coder job! Links: JavaScript jQuery React Elixir Elm Vue ESLint Node.js Node Security Project Node Security Project - Medium Manning Publications: Course by PJ Evans PUG JSConf EU – talk with Philip Roberts Medium Article by David Gilbertson Hackster.io – Pi Car Pi Moroni Holding a Program in One’s Head PJ Evans’ Twitter Sponsors: Kendo UI Sentry Cache Fly Get a Coder Job Picks: Aimee Paul Graham - Blog AJ Rust Charles Tweet Mash-up The Diabetes Code PJ Music - Max Richter

Panel: Charles Max Wood Mark Ericksen Josh Adams Special Guest: Kate Travers In this episode of Elixir Mix, the panel talks to Kate Travers who was a student/apprentice with the Flatiron School and now is on staff as a software engineer. The panel and Kate talk about adopting Elixir at the Flatiron School and Pattern Matching. Watch Kate’s talks about the topic; links to these talks can be found below. Show Topics: 1:08– Hi from Kate Travers. 1:16 – Chuck: Background? 2:20 – Kate gives her background. 2:30 – Chuck: We had another Flatiron alum from an extra show. 2:44 – Kate: Yeah – she’s great! 2:48 – Chuck: Flatiron mostly focused on Ruby and JavaScript. Has that changed or? 3:02 – Kate: For the students we are teaching the Rails focus on the backend and React on the frontend. Times might be changing. What else is out there for functional curriculum? Our lead engineer is super motivated introducing some Elixir. Our engineering team might be the first to go in that arena. It would be absolutely fantastic to 4:02 – Chuck: Awesome! I would like to see the boot camps take on Elixir. 4:15 – Kate: Yeah, there are many benefits of doing that. 4:57 – Chuck: You see some Reactive, some... It is interesting to see how it comes together and 5:16 – Kate: Yeah we see this as a support – delivery of curriculum. When you start out you are writing in a functional style. You are essentially writing TLI scripts – functional manner. Now in the curriculum we are training people to think, and to get away from that script-way, and think in terms of objects. 6:11 – Panelist: I think that is interesting. Some of the difficulty of teaching Elixir is to UNLEARN some of their past education. Start teaching people FUNCTIONAL, might help. 7:04 – Chuck: I have been starting a new project... What is going on here? Oh yeah I have to think about it. 7:20 – Kate: Yes. We have spun up – we have one core Elixir project. We have been on that for a year. We have spun up some smaller projects. On these projects this is the first time these people have used Elixir. It is interesting to see the difficulties that they are seeing for the first time. 8:09 – Chuck: I want to talk to adoption for a bit. So as your school has made this transition, where are you seeing the (first of all) where is it easy to get buy in. How did Elixir get into Flatiron? 9:06 – Kate: It is not apart of the school’s curriculum. How we started using Elixir was because our technical lead he is super loud / elegant voice for this language. Elixir might solve some of the problems that we were facing. When we adopt new tech it’s because we have thought about it heavily. We don’t adopt new technologies “just because”. The perfect opportunity came up, so this lead into why and how Flatiron started using Elixir. Kate goes into more detail. 15:24 – Chuck: Learn.io – check out outside of the school? 15:35 – Kate: Yep! There is even some interview prep; also, intro to Ruby, intro to JavaScript, and someday intro to Elixir? 16:06 – Chuck: As you brining people into this how do you transfer them to Ruby to Elixir? Do you throw them into the deep end? 16:26 – Kate: Sure! If someone is interested we will. It is something our team tries to prioritize. Kate goes into more detail. 18:43 – Kate: We didn’t expect for these book clubs to keep going. We will do a little workshop as part of book club. 19:18 – Panelist: Question to Kate. 19:25 – Kate: Yes, so everyone has a NEW lead each week. Folks of ALL different experience levels. What is different about our team is that we have tons of people who LOVE to blog. If you check-it out as they are learning Elixir they are writing posts. 20:21 – Question. 20:29 – Kate answers the question. 20:49 – Chuck. 20:55 – Kate: Steven suggested a new way to cement the things you are learning. 21:28 – Chuck: Yeah – Flatiron labs. Now that I have been playing with Elixir with pattern matching. At first it’s scary stuff. 21:49 – Kate: It is a head-trip. 22:00 – Chuck: ...wait...wait... 22:10 – Kate: Multiple binding? 22:16 – Panelist: My first introduction to outer matching was seeing a... 22:39 – Kate: Great first introduction. Not the textbook example, you will get to see the real-world situation. Yeah that is a really, really good example. 23:05 – Panelist: Pattern matching for me became a superpower! It was my first real love of the language; before concurrency, and others. Pattern matching helped with a lot of the pains that I wouldn’t have to encounter. You are poking this big object to figure it out. Then it’s easier because if the shape matches, then it matches. Mental flip – and I get it! It felt like a superpower. I liked your talk, Kate, about pattern matching. 24:41 – Kate: Yeah, totally. Pattern matching. Like learning a musical instrument like a guitar. When you start learning something like this you have these high ambitions. You are learning to be a rock star and you want to be David Bowie. But when you start you couldn’t be further away from that goal. At the beginning you are learning chords and it’s so easy to think: “I am terrible, I suck...” you quit and never keep going. To prevent this you need a hook to keep you going. You just need to learn that really sick rift. Oh yeah, NOW I can start seeing my rock star abilities; same thing for Elixir. Pattern matching was my really sick rift. 27:38 – Panelist chimes-in. You have that excitement about the new language. But they get frustrated because they are a beginner. I do think that you nailed it there. If people can latch onto something fairly quickly, then it gives them a reason to keep coming back to learn more and more. 28:25 – Kate continues this conversation. 28:48 – Panelist. 28:54 – Advertisement – Code Badges! 29:32 – Chuck: Most important / interesting thing you’ve learned about pattern matching? 29:48 – Kate: It was the different things you can do with... 30:23 – Kate: The concept is that Elixir provides... 31:42 – Chuck: I didn’t know that you could do that! 31:56 – Kate: The benefit only comes from legibility. 32:13 – Panelist: Guard clauses and pattern matching. I think it would be a mess if I weren’t use Elixir. 32:31 – Kate: Yes, definitely. 33:10 – Panelist: Yes, my first project with Elixir... 34:47 – People should go and see your talk and it’s in the links. 35:00 – Kate: Thanks! Kate talks about dodging bullets and code.  36:04 – Chuck: have you seen other languages using/trying to use Pattern matching? 36:10 – Kate: Yeah, there are talks about Ruby and JavaScript for introducing proper pattern matching in BOTH languages. Ruby is interesting. I don’t know how much traction we have on these, but people seem really into program matching. 36:36 – Panelist: Yeah, I think people come to Elixir and see pattern matching and they get excited. 36:55 – Kate: Yeah, I would be interested to see if the proposals go through or not. There is a conference on my WATCH LIST and I want to see more about it. 37:26 – Panelist: It started off as a prologue that’s what you need. 37:37 – Kate: If it wasn’t designed that way in the beginning it will be a problem. If it’s not apart of the system in the beginning then it could be a problem. 38:14 – Chuck: Yeah, the flipside is... 38:34 – Panelists: I don’t know. 38:44 – Panelist: One of my concerns is object oriented programming. I imagine (nightmare) pattern matching in Ruby and all match onto this object – after it’s there – it’s inside my function – runs another thread – comes back to me – that object is modified and now it’s there, and not be completely invalid. It’s not RUBY anymore. 39:36 – Panelist: Pattern matching could bring them over and bring them over the gap. I am worried that if this is more widespread then we will hit a much worse. 40:06 – Kate and Panel: Yep! 40:12 – Chuck: Anything else about pattern matching and/or adopting Elixir? 40:18 – Kate: I don’t want to rush into this too quickly, but if we are on the topic of bringing people to Elixir. It came up at this conference. Ruby Rails coming over – RR refugees. The question that they post: People are hyped about Elixir about Phoenix. What is going to be the thing that brings people over? 41:15 – Panelist answers Kate’s question. 41:29 – You can’t do live Vue in other languages. If you are really experienced... 42:08 – Chuck: You have to learn 2 technologies. You can adopt a frontend and backend technology and you can get SOME of that. I know a lot of people are invested in the frontend technology or the backend. I think that is how you are going to convert. 42:43: Panelist chimes-in. Panelist’s friend asks: Is it an appropriate tool? 43:30 – Kate: Our team is super excited about it. Our team has mostly been working on the backend. We need to deliver on the frontend with updates. What if we had it – out of the box with Phoenix? Yeah people are over the moon. 44:06 – Chuck talks about what he is using. What if I didn’t have to do any of that garbage? 44:23 – Panelist: It is a NICE experience when you have to do it. 44:38 – Chuck: If you need a killer feature for React or Vue – why can’t you build a frontend... 45:00 – Panelist adds in his comments/thoughts. 45:30 – Chuck: Anything else? 45:38 – Picks! Links: Flatiron School Our Courses – Flatiron School How We Built the Learn IDE in Browser – Medium Flatiron Labs Elixir – Flatiron Labs Elixir – Guards Kate Travers Kate Travers’ “Pattern Matching in Elixir” (3/14/18) Kate Travers’ Dev.to Kate Travers’ Twitter Kate Travers’ Talk on YouTube: “Pattern Matching: The Gateway to Loving Elixir – Code Elixir LDN 2018” Kate Travers’ Code Sync Ruby Elixir JavaScript Vue React Sponsors: Get a Coder Job Digital Ocean Code Badges Cache Fly Picks: Mark Ericksen Value Teach something to someone else. It helps you grow. Book - Leadership and Self Deception Josh Adams Ethdenver Charles SCALE Brunch Kate breakinto.tech Kusama: Infinity

Panel: Charles Max Wood Mark Ericksen Josh Adams Special Guest: Kate Travers In this episode of Elixir Mix, the panel talks to Kate Travers who was a student/apprentice with the Flatiron School and now is on staff as a software engineer. The panel and Kate talk about adopting Elixir at the Flatiron School and Pattern Matching. Watch Kate’s talks about the topic; links to these talks can be found below. Show Topics: 1:08– Hi from Kate Travers. 1:16 – Chuck: Background? 2:20 – Kate gives her background. 2:30 – Chuck: We had another Flatiron alum from an extra show. 2:44 – Kate: Yeah – she’s great! 2:48 – Chuck: Flatiron mostly focused on Ruby and JavaScript. Has that changed or? 3:02 – Kate: For the students we are teaching the Rails focus on the backend and React on the frontend. Times might be changing. What else is out there for functional curriculum? Our lead engineer is super motivated introducing some Elixir. Our engineering team might be the first to go in that arena. It would be absolutely fantastic to 4:02 – Chuck: Awesome! I would like to see the boot camps take on Elixir. 4:15 – Kate: Yeah, there are many benefits of doing that. 4:57 – Chuck: You see some Reactive, some... It is interesting to see how it comes together and 5:16 – Kate: Yeah we see this as a support – delivery of curriculum. When you start out you are writing in a functional style. You are essentially writing TLI scripts – functional manner. Now in the curriculum we are training people to think, and to get away from that script-way, and think in terms of objects. 6:11 – Panelist: I think that is interesting. Some of the difficulty of teaching Elixir is to UNLEARN some of their past education. Start teaching people FUNCTIONAL, might help. 7:04 – Chuck: I have been starting a new project... What is going on here? Oh yeah I have to think about it. 7:20 – Kate: Yes. We have spun up – we have one core Elixir project. We have been on that for a year. We have spun up some smaller projects. On these projects this is the first time these people have used Elixir. It is interesting to see the difficulties that they are seeing for the first time. 8:09 – Chuck: I want to talk to adoption for a bit. So as your school has made this transition, where are you seeing the (first of all) where is it easy to get buy in. How did Elixir get into Flatiron? 9:06 – Kate: It is not apart of the school’s curriculum. How we started using Elixir was because our technical lead he is super loud / elegant voice for this language. Elixir might solve some of the problems that we were facing. When we adopt new tech it’s because we have thought about it heavily. We don’t adopt new technologies “just because”. The perfect opportunity came up, so this lead into why and how Flatiron started using Elixir. Kate goes into more detail. 15:24 – Chuck: Learn.io – check out outside of the school? 15:35 – Kate: Yep! There is even some interview prep; also, intro to Ruby, intro to JavaScript, and someday intro to Elixir? 16:06 – Chuck: As you brining people into this how do you transfer them to Ruby to Elixir? Do you throw them into the deep end? 16:26 – Kate: Sure! If someone is interested we will. It is something our team tries to prioritize. Kate goes into more detail. 18:43 – Kate: We didn’t expect for these book clubs to keep going. We will do a little workshop as part of book club. 19:18 – Panelist: Question to Kate. 19:25 – Kate: Yes, so everyone has a NEW lead each week. Folks of ALL different experience levels. What is different about our team is that we have tons of people who LOVE to blog. If you check-it out as they are learning Elixir they are writing posts. 20:21 – Question. 20:29 – Kate answers the question. 20:49 – Chuck. 20:55 – Kate: Steven suggested a new way to cement the things you are learning. 21:28 – Chuck: Yeah – Flatiron labs. Now that I have been playing with Elixir with pattern matching. At first it’s scary stuff. 21:49 – Kate: It is a head-trip. 22:00 – Chuck: ...wait...wait... 22:10 – Kate: Multiple binding? 22:16 – Panelist: My first introduction to outer matching was seeing a... 22:39 – Kate: Great first introduction. Not the textbook example, you will get to see the real-world situation. Yeah that is a really, really good example. 23:05 – Panelist: Pattern matching for me became a superpower! It was my first real love of the language; before concurrency, and others. Pattern matching helped with a lot of the pains that I wouldn’t have to encounter. You are poking this big object to figure it out. Then it’s easier because if the shape matches, then it matches. Mental flip – and I get it! It felt like a superpower. I liked your talk, Kate, about pattern matching. 24:41 – Kate: Yeah, totally. Pattern matching. Like learning a musical instrument like a guitar. When you start learning something like this you have these high ambitions. You are learning to be a rock star and you want to be David Bowie. But when you start you couldn’t be further away from that goal. At the beginning you are learning chords and it’s so easy to think: “I am terrible, I suck...” you quit and never keep going. To prevent this you need a hook to keep you going. You just need to learn that really sick rift. Oh yeah, NOW I can start seeing my rock star abilities; same thing for Elixir. Pattern matching was my really sick rift. 27:38 – Panelist chimes-in. You have that excitement about the new language. But they get frustrated because they are a beginner. I do think that you nailed it there. If people can latch onto something fairly quickly, then it gives them a reason to keep coming back to learn more and more. 28:25 – Kate continues this conversation. 28:48 – Panelist. 28:54 – Advertisement – Code Badges! 29:32 – Chuck: Most important / interesting thing you’ve learned about pattern matching? 29:48 – Kate: It was the different things you can do with... 30:23 – Kate: The concept is that Elixir provides... 31:42 – Chuck: I didn’t know that you could do that! 31:56 – Kate: The benefit only comes from legibility. 32:13 – Panelist: Guard clauses and pattern matching. I think it would be a mess if I weren’t use Elixir. 32:31 – Kate: Yes, definitely. 33:10 – Panelist: Yes, my first project with Elixir... 34:47 – People should go and see your talk and it’s in the links. 35:00 – Kate: Thanks! Kate talks about dodging bullets and code.  36:04 – Chuck: have you seen other languages using/trying to use Pattern matching? 36:10 – Kate: Yeah, there are talks about Ruby and JavaScript for introducing proper pattern matching in BOTH languages. Ruby is interesting. I don’t know how much traction we have on these, but people seem really into program matching. 36:36 – Panelist: Yeah, I think people come to Elixir and see pattern matching and they get excited. 36:55 – Kate: Yeah, I would be interested to see if the proposals go through or not. There is a conference on my WATCH LIST and I want to see more about it. 37:26 – Panelist: It started off as a prologue that’s what you need. 37:37 – Kate: If it wasn’t designed that way in the beginning it will be a problem. If it’s not apart of the system in the beginning then it could be a problem. 38:14 – Chuck: Yeah, the flipside is... 38:34 – Panelists: I don’t know. 38:44 – Panelist: One of my concerns is object oriented programming. I imagine (nightmare) pattern matching in Ruby and all match onto this object – after it’s there – it’s inside my function – runs another thread – comes back to me – that object is modified and now it’s there, and not be completely invalid. It’s not RUBY anymore. 39:36 – Panelist: Pattern matching could bring them over and bring them over the gap. I am worried that if this is more widespread then we will hit a much worse. 40:06 – Kate and Panel: Yep! 40:12 – Chuck: Anything else about pattern matching and/or adopting Elixir? 40:18 – Kate: I don’t want to rush into this too quickly, but if we are on the topic of bringing people to Elixir. It came up at this conference. Ruby Rails coming over – RR refugees. The question that they post: People are hyped about Elixir about Phoenix. What is going to be the thing that brings people over? 41:15 – Panelist answers Kate’s question. 41:29 – You can’t do live Vue in other languages. If you are really experienced... 42:08 – Chuck: You have to learn 2 technologies. You can adopt a frontend and backend technology and you can get SOME of that. I know a lot of people are invested in the frontend technology or the backend. I think that is how you are going to convert. 42:43: Panelist chimes-in. Panelist’s friend asks: Is it an appropriate tool? 43:30 – Kate: Our team is super excited about it. Our team has mostly been working on the backend. We need to deliver on the frontend with updates. What if we had it – out of the box with Phoenix? Yeah people are over the moon. 44:06 – Chuck talks about what he is using. What if I didn’t have to do any of that garbage? 44:23 – Panelist: It is a NICE experience when you have to do it. 44:38 – Chuck: If you need a killer feature for React or Vue – why can’t you build a frontend... 45:00 – Panelist adds in his comments/thoughts. 45:30 – Chuck: Anything else? 45:38 – Picks! Links: Flatiron School Our Courses – Flatiron School How We Built the Learn IDE in Browser – Medium Flatiron Labs Elixir – Flatiron Labs Elixir – Guards Kate Travers Kate Travers’ “Pattern Matching in Elixir” (3/14/18) Kate Travers’ Dev.to Kate Travers’ Twitter Kate Travers’ Talk on YouTube: “Pattern Matching: The Gateway to Loving Elixir – Code Elixir LDN 2018” Kate Travers’ Code Sync Ruby Elixir JavaScript Vue React Sponsors: Get a Coder Job Digital Ocean Code Badges Cache Fly Picks: Mark Ericksen Value Teach something to someone else. It helps you grow. Book - Leadership and Self Deception Josh Adams Ethdenver Charles SCALE Brunch Kate breakinto.tech Kusama: Infinity

Panel: Aimee Knight Joe Eames Charles Max Wood Special Guests: Ethan Brown In this episode, the panel talks with Ethan Brown who is a technological director at a small company. They write software to facilitate large public organizations and help make projects more effective, such as: rehabilitation of large construction projects, among others. There is a lot of government work through the endeavors they encounter. Today, the panel talks about his article he wrote, and other topics such as Flex, Redux, Ruby, Vue.js, Automerge, block chain, and Elm. Enjoy! Show Topics: 2:38 – Chuck: We are here to talk about the software side of things. Let’s dive into what you are looking at mid-year what we need to know for 2018. You wrote this. 3:25 – Ethan: I start off saying that doing this podcast now, how quickly things change. One thing I didn’t think people needed to know was symbols, and now that’s changed. I had a hard time with bundling and other things. I didn’t think the troubles were worth it. And now a couple of moths ago (an open source project) someone submitted a PR and said: maybe we should be using symbols? I told them I’ve had problems in the past. They said: are you crazy?! It’s funny to see how I things have changed. 4:47 – Panel: Could you talk about symbols? 4:58 – Aimee: Are they comparable to Ruby? 5:05 – Ethan talks about what symbols are and what they do! 5:52 – Chuck: That’s pretty close to how that’s used in Ruby, too. 6:04 – Aimee: I haven’t used them in JavaScript, yet. When have you used them recently? 6:15 – Ethan answers the question. 7:17 – Panelist chimes in. 7:27 – Ethan continues his answer. The topic of “symbols” continues. Ethan talks about Automerge. 11:18 – Chuck: I want to dive-into what you SHOULD know in 2018 – does this come from your experience? Or how did you drive this list? 11:40 – Ethan: I realize that this is a local business, and I try to hear what people are and are not using. I read blogs. I think I am staying on top of these topics being discussed. 12:25 – Chuck: Most of these things are what people are talking. 12:47 – Aimee: Web Assembly. Why is this on the list? 12:58 – Ethan: I put on the list, because I heard lots of people talk about this. What I was hearing the echoes of the JavaScript haters. They have gone through a renaissance. Along with Node, and React (among others) people did get on board. There are a lot of people that are poisoned by that. I think the excitement has died down. If I were to tell a story today – I would 14:23 – Would you put block chain on there? And AI? 14:34 – Panel: I think it’s something you should be aware of in regards to web assembly. I think it will be aware of. I don’t know if there is anything functional that I could use it with. 15:18 – Chuck: I haven’t really played with it... 15:27 – Panel: If you wrote this today would you put machine learning on there? 15:37 – Ethan: Machine Learning... 16:44 – Chuck: Back to Web Assembly. I don’t think you were wrong, I think you were early. Web Assembly isn’t design just to be a ... It’s designed to be highly optimized for... 17:45 – Ethan: Well-said. Most of the work I do today we are hardly taxing the devices we are using on. 18:18 – Chuck and panel chime in. 18:39 – Chuck: I did think the next two you have on here makes sense. 18:54 – Panel: Functional programming? 19:02 – Ethan: I have a lot of thoughts on functional programming and they are mixed. I was exposed to this in the late 90’s. It was around by 20-30 years. These aren’t new. I do credit JavaScript to bring these to the masses. It’s the first language I see the masses clinging to. 10 years ago you didn’t see that. I think that’s great for the programming community in general. I would liken it to a way that Ruby on Rails really changed the way we do web developing with strong tooling. It was never really my favorite language but I can appreciate what it did for web programming. With that said...(Ethan continues the conversation.) Ethan: I love Elm. 21:49 – Panelists talks about Elm. *The topic diverts slightly. 22:23 – Panel: Here’s a counter-argument. Want to stir the pot a little bit. I want to take the side of someone who does NOT like functional programming. 24:08 – Ethan: I don’t disagree with you. There are some things I agree with and things I do disagree with. Let’s talk about Data Structures. I feel like I use this everyday. Maybe it’s the common ones. The computer science background definitely helps out. If there was one data structure, it would be TREES. I think STACKS and QUEUES are important, too. Don’t use 200-300 hours, but here are the most important ones. For algorithms that maybe you should know and bust out by heart. 27:48 – Advertisement for Chuck’s E-book Course: Get A Coder Job 28:30 – Chuck: Functional programming – people talk bout why they hate it, and people go all the way down and they say: You have to do it this way.... What pay things will pay off for me, and which things won’t pay off for me? For a lot of the easy wins it has already been discussed. I can’t remember all the principles behind it. You are looking at real tradeoffs.  You have to approach it in another way. I like the IDEA that you should know in 2018, get to know X, Y, or Z, this year. You are helping the person guide them through the process. 30:18 – Ethan: Having the right tools in your toolbox. 30:45 – Panel: I agree with everything you said, I was on board, until you said: Get Merge Conflicts. I think as developers we are being dragged in... 33:55 – Panelist: Is this the RIGHT tool to use in this situation? 34:06 – Aimee: If you are ever feeling super imposed about something then make sure you give it a fair shot, first. 34:28 – That’s the only reason why I keep watching DC movies. 34:41 – Chuck: Functional programming and... I see people react because of the hype cycle. It doesn’t fit into my current paradigm. Is it super popular for a few months or...? 35:10 – Aimee: I would love for someone to point out a way those pure functions that wouldn’t make their code more testable. 35:42 – Ethan: Give things a fair shake. This is going back a few years when React was starting to gain popularity. I had young programmers all about React. I tried it and mixing it with JavaScript and...I thought it was gross. Everyone went on board and I had to make technically decisions. A Friend told me that you have to try it 3 times and give up 3 times for you to get it. That was exactly it – don’t know if that was prophecy or something. This was one of my bigger professional mistakes because team wanted to use it and I didn’t at first. At the time we went with Vue (old dog like me). I cost us 80,000 lines of code and how many man hours because I wasn’t keeping an open-mind? 37:54 – Chuck: We can all say that with someone we’ve done. 38:04 – Panel shares a personal story. 38:32 – Panel: I sympathize because I had the same feeling as automated testing. That first time, that automated test saved me 3 hours. Oh My Gosh! What have I been missing! 39:12 – Ethan: Why should you do automated testing? Here is why... You have to not be afraid of testing. Not afraid of breaking things and getting messy. 39:51 – Panel: Immutability? 40:00 – Ethan talks about this topic. 42:58 – Chuck: You have summed up my experience with it. 43:10 – Panel: Yep. I agree. This is stupid why would I make a copy of a huge structure, when... 44:03 – Chuck: To Joe’s point – but it wasn’t just “this was a dumb way” – it was also trivial, too. I am doing all of these operations and look my memory doesn’t go through the roof. They you see it pay off. If you don’t see how it’s saving you effort, at first, then you really understand later. 44:58 – Aimee: Going back to it being a functional concept and making things more testable and let it being clearly separate things makes working in code a better experience. As I am working in a system that is NOT a pleasure. 45:31 – Chuck: It’s called legacy code... 45:38 – What is the code year? What constitutes a legacy application? 45:55 – Panel: 7 times – good rule. 46:10 – Aimee: I am not trolling. Serious conversation I was having with them this year. 46:27 – Just like cars. 46:34 – Chuck chimes in with his rule of thumb. 46:244 – Panel and Chuck go back-and-forth with this topic. 47:14 – Dilbert cartoons – check it out. 47:55 – GREAT QUOTE about life lessons. 48:09 – Chuck: I wish I knew then what I know now. Data binding. Flux and Redux. Lots of this came out of stuff around both data stores and shadow domes. How do you tease this out with the stuff that came out around the same time? 48:51 – Ethan answers question. 51:17 – Panel chimes in. 52:01 – Picks! Links: JavaScript jQuery React Elixir Elm Vue Automerge - GITHUB Functional – Light JavaScript Lego’s Massive Cloud City Star Wars Lego Shop The Traveler’s Gift – Book Jocks Rule, Nerds Drool by Jennifer Wright 2ality – JavaScript and more Cooper Press Book – Ethan Brown O’Reilly Community – Ethan Brown’s Bio Ethan Brown’s Twitter Sponsors: Kendo UI Sentry Digital Ocean Cache Fly   Picks: Aimee Pettier Joe Lego - Star Wars Betrayal at Cloud City Functional-Light JavaScript Charles The Traveler’s Gift The Shack The Expanse Ethan Jocks Rule, Nerd Drool JavaScipt Blog by Dr. Axel Rauschmayer Cooper Press

Panel: Aimee Knight Joe Eames Charles Max Wood Special Guests: Ethan Brown In this episode, the panel talks with Ethan Brown who is a technological director at a small company. They write software to facilitate large public organizations and help make projects more effective, such as: rehabilitation of large construction projects, among others. There is a lot of government work through the endeavors they encounter. Today, the panel talks about his article he wrote, and other topics such as Flex, Redux, Ruby, Vue.js, Automerge, block chain, and Elm. Enjoy! Show Topics: 2:38 – Chuck: We are here to talk about the software side of things. Let’s dive into what you are looking at mid-year what we need to know for 2018. You wrote this. 3:25 – Ethan: I start off saying that doing this podcast now, how quickly things change. One thing I didn’t think people needed to know was symbols, and now that’s changed. I had a hard time with bundling and other things. I didn’t think the troubles were worth it. And now a couple of moths ago (an open source project) someone submitted a PR and said: maybe we should be using symbols? I told them I’ve had problems in the past. They said: are you crazy?! It’s funny to see how I things have changed. 4:47 – Panel: Could you talk about symbols? 4:58 – Aimee: Are they comparable to Ruby? 5:05 – Ethan talks about what symbols are and what they do! 5:52 – Chuck: That’s pretty close to how that’s used in Ruby, too. 6:04 – Aimee: I haven’t used them in JavaScript, yet. When have you used them recently? 6:15 – Ethan answers the question. 7:17 – Panelist chimes in. 7:27 – Ethan continues his answer. The topic of “symbols” continues. Ethan talks about Automerge. 11:18 – Chuck: I want to dive-into what you SHOULD know in 2018 – does this come from your experience? Or how did you drive this list? 11:40 – Ethan: I realize that this is a local business, and I try to hear what people are and are not using. I read blogs. I think I am staying on top of these topics being discussed. 12:25 – Chuck: Most of these things are what people are talking. 12:47 – Aimee: Web Assembly. Why is this on the list? 12:58 – Ethan: I put on the list, because I heard lots of people talk about this. What I was hearing the echoes of the JavaScript haters. They have gone through a renaissance. Along with Node, and React (among others) people did get on board. There are a lot of people that are poisoned by that. I think the excitement has died down. If I were to tell a story today – I would 14:23 – Would you put block chain on there? And AI? 14:34 – Panel: I think it’s something you should be aware of in regards to web assembly. I think it will be aware of. I don’t know if there is anything functional that I could use it with. 15:18 – Chuck: I haven’t really played with it... 15:27 – Panel: If you wrote this today would you put machine learning on there? 15:37 – Ethan: Machine Learning... 16:44 – Chuck: Back to Web Assembly. I don’t think you were wrong, I think you were early. Web Assembly isn’t design just to be a ... It’s designed to be highly optimized for... 17:45 – Ethan: Well-said. Most of the work I do today we are hardly taxing the devices we are using on. 18:18 – Chuck and panel chime in. 18:39 – Chuck: I did think the next two you have on here makes sense. 18:54 – Panel: Functional programming? 19:02 – Ethan: I have a lot of thoughts on functional programming and they are mixed. I was exposed to this in the late 90’s. It was around by 20-30 years. These aren’t new. I do credit JavaScript to bring these to the masses. It’s the first language I see the masses clinging to. 10 years ago you didn’t see that. I think that’s great for the programming community in general. I would liken it to a way that Ruby on Rails really changed the way we do web developing with strong tooling. It was never really my favorite language but I can appreciate what it did for web programming. With that said...(Ethan continues the conversation.) Ethan: I love Elm. 21:49 – Panelists talks about Elm. *The topic diverts slightly. 22:23 – Panel: Here’s a counter-argument. Want to stir the pot a little bit. I want to take the side of someone who does NOT like functional programming. 24:08 – Ethan: I don’t disagree with you. There are some things I agree with and things I do disagree with. Let’s talk about Data Structures. I feel like I use this everyday. Maybe it’s the common ones. The computer science background definitely helps out. If there was one data structure, it would be TREES. I think STACKS and QUEUES are important, too. Don’t use 200-300 hours, but here are the most important ones. For algorithms that maybe you should know and bust out by heart. 27:48 – Advertisement for Chuck’s E-book Course: Get A Coder Job 28:30 – Chuck: Functional programming – people talk bout why they hate it, and people go all the way down and they say: You have to do it this way.... What pay things will pay off for me, and which things won’t pay off for me? For a lot of the easy wins it has already been discussed. I can’t remember all the principles behind it. You are looking at real tradeoffs.  You have to approach it in another way. I like the IDEA that you should know in 2018, get to know X, Y, or Z, this year. You are helping the person guide them through the process. 30:18 – Ethan: Having the right tools in your toolbox. 30:45 – Panel: I agree with everything you said, I was on board, until you said: Get Merge Conflicts. I think as developers we are being dragged in... 33:55 – Panelist: Is this the RIGHT tool to use in this situation? 34:06 – Aimee: If you are ever feeling super imposed about something then make sure you give it a fair shot, first. 34:28 – That’s the only reason why I keep watching DC movies. 34:41 – Chuck: Functional programming and... I see people react because of the hype cycle. It doesn’t fit into my current paradigm. Is it super popular for a few months or...? 35:10 – Aimee: I would love for someone to point out a way those pure functions that wouldn’t make their code more testable. 35:42 – Ethan: Give things a fair shake. This is going back a few years when React was starting to gain popularity. I had young programmers all about React. I tried it and mixing it with JavaScript and...I thought it was gross. Everyone went on board and I had to make technically decisions. A Friend told me that you have to try it 3 times and give up 3 times for you to get it. That was exactly it – don’t know if that was prophecy or something. This was one of my bigger professional mistakes because team wanted to use it and I didn’t at first. At the time we went with Vue (old dog like me). I cost us 80,000 lines of code and how many man hours because I wasn’t keeping an open-mind? 37:54 – Chuck: We can all say that with someone we’ve done. 38:04 – Panel shares a personal story. 38:32 – Panel: I sympathize because I had the same feeling as automated testing. That first time, that automated test saved me 3 hours. Oh My Gosh! What have I been missing! 39:12 – Ethan: Why should you do automated testing? Here is why... You have to not be afraid of testing. Not afraid of breaking things and getting messy. 39:51 – Panel: Immutability? 40:00 – Ethan talks about this topic. 42:58 – Chuck: You have summed up my experience with it. 43:10 – Panel: Yep. I agree. This is stupid why would I make a copy of a huge structure, when... 44:03 – Chuck: To Joe’s point – but it wasn’t just “this was a dumb way” – it was also trivial, too. I am doing all of these operations and look my memory doesn’t go through the roof. They you see it pay off. If you don’t see how it’s saving you effort, at first, then you really understand later. 44:58 – Aimee: Going back to it being a functional concept and making things more testable and let it being clearly separate things makes working in code a better experience. As I am working in a system that is NOT a pleasure. 45:31 – Chuck: It’s called legacy code... 45:38 – What is the code year? What constitutes a legacy application? 45:55 – Panel: 7 times – good rule. 46:10 – Aimee: I am not trolling. Serious conversation I was having with them this year. 46:27 – Just like cars. 46:34 – Chuck chimes in with his rule of thumb. 46:244 – Panel and Chuck go back-and-forth with this topic. 47:14 – Dilbert cartoons – check it out. 47:55 – GREAT QUOTE about life lessons. 48:09 – Chuck: I wish I knew then what I know now. Data binding. Flux and Redux. Lots of this came out of stuff around both data stores and shadow domes. How do you tease this out with the stuff that came out around the same time? 48:51 – Ethan answers question. 51:17 – Panel chimes in. 52:01 – Picks! Links: JavaScript jQuery React Elixir Elm Vue Automerge - GITHUB Functional – Light JavaScript Lego’s Massive Cloud City Star Wars Lego Shop The Traveler’s Gift – Book Jocks Rule, Nerds Drool by Jennifer Wright 2ality – JavaScript and more Cooper Press Book – Ethan Brown O’Reilly Community – Ethan Brown’s Bio Ethan Brown’s Twitter Sponsors: Kendo UI Sentry Digital Ocean Cache Fly   Picks: Aimee Pettier Joe Lego - Star Wars Betrayal at Cloud City Functional-Light JavaScript Charles The Traveler’s Gift The Shack The Expanse Ethan Jocks Rule, Nerd Drool JavaScipt Blog by Dr. Axel Rauschmayer Cooper Press

Panel: Aimee Knight Joe Eames Charles Max Wood Special Guests: Ethan Brown In this episode, the panel talks with Ethan Brown who is a technological director at a small company. They write software to facilitate large public organizations and help make projects more effective, such as: rehabilitation of large construction projects, among others. There is a lot of government work through the endeavors they encounter. Today, the panel talks about his article he wrote, and other topics such as Flex, Redux, Ruby, Vue.js, Automerge, block chain, and Elm. Enjoy! Show Topics: 2:38 – Chuck: We are here to talk about the software side of things. Let’s dive into what you are looking at mid-year what we need to know for 2018. You wrote this. 3:25 – Ethan: I start off saying that doing this podcast now, how quickly things change. One thing I didn’t think people needed to know was symbols, and now that’s changed. I had a hard time with bundling and other things. I didn’t think the troubles were worth it. And now a couple of moths ago (an open source project) someone submitted a PR and said: maybe we should be using symbols? I told them I’ve had problems in the past. They said: are you crazy?! It’s funny to see how I things have changed. 4:47 – Panel: Could you talk about symbols? 4:58 – Aimee: Are they comparable to Ruby? 5:05 – Ethan talks about what symbols are and what they do! 5:52 – Chuck: That’s pretty close to how that’s used in Ruby, too. 6:04 – Aimee: I haven’t used them in JavaScript, yet. When have you used them recently? 6:15 – Ethan answers the question. 7:17 – Panelist chimes in. 7:27 – Ethan continues his answer. The topic of “symbols” continues. Ethan talks about Automerge. 11:18 – Chuck: I want to dive-into what you SHOULD know in 2018 – does this come from your experience? Or how did you drive this list? 11:40 – Ethan: I realize that this is a local business, and I try to hear what people are and are not using. I read blogs. I think I am staying on top of these topics being discussed. 12:25 – Chuck: Most of these things are what people are talking. 12:47 – Aimee: Web Assembly. Why is this on the list? 12:58 – Ethan: I put on the list, because I heard lots of people talk about this. What I was hearing the echoes of the JavaScript haters. They have gone through a renaissance. Along with Node, and React (among others) people did get on board. There are a lot of people that are poisoned by that. I think the excitement has died down. If I were to tell a story today – I would 14:23 – Would you put block chain on there? And AI? 14:34 – Panel: I think it’s something you should be aware of in regards to web assembly. I think it will be aware of. I don’t know if there is anything functional that I could use it with. 15:18 – Chuck: I haven’t really played with it... 15:27 – Panel: If you wrote this today would you put machine learning on there? 15:37 – Ethan: Machine Learning... 16:44 – Chuck: Back to Web Assembly. I don’t think you were wrong, I think you were early. Web Assembly isn’t design just to be a ... It’s designed to be highly optimized for... 17:45 – Ethan: Well-said. Most of the work I do today we are hardly taxing the devices we are using on. 18:18 – Chuck and panel chime in. 18:39 – Chuck: I did think the next two you have on here makes sense. 18:54 – Panel: Functional programming? 19:02 – Ethan: I have a lot of thoughts on functional programming and they are mixed. I was exposed to this in the late 90’s. It was around by 20-30 years. These aren’t new. I do credit JavaScript to bring these to the masses. It’s the first language I see the masses clinging to. 10 years ago you didn’t see that. I think that’s great for the programming community in general. I would liken it to a way that Ruby on Rails really changed the way we do web developing with strong tooling. It was never really my favorite language but I can appreciate what it did for web programming. With that said...(Ethan continues the conversation.) Ethan: I love Elm. 21:49 – Panelists talks about Elm. *The topic diverts slightly. 22:23 – Panel: Here’s a counter-argument. Want to stir the pot a little bit. I want to take the side of someone who does NOT like functional programming. 24:08 – Ethan: I don’t disagree with you. There are some things I agree with and things I do disagree with. Let’s talk about Data Structures. I feel like I use this everyday. Maybe it’s the common ones. The computer science background definitely helps out. If there was one data structure, it would be TREES. I think STACKS and QUEUES are important, too. Don’t use 200-300 hours, but here are the most important ones. For algorithms that maybe you should know and bust out by heart. 27:48 – Advertisement for Chuck’s E-book Course: Get A Coder Job 28:30 – Chuck: Functional programming – people talk bout why they hate it, and people go all the way down and they say: You have to do it this way.... What pay things will pay off for me, and which things won’t pay off for me? For a lot of the easy wins it has already been discussed. I can’t remember all the principles behind it. You are looking at real tradeoffs.  You have to approach it in another way. I like the IDEA that you should know in 2018, get to know X, Y, or Z, this year. You are helping the person guide them through the process. 30:18 – Ethan: Having the right tools in your toolbox. 30:45 – Panel: I agree with everything you said, I was on board, until you said: Get Merge Conflicts. I think as developers we are being dragged in... 33:55 – Panelist: Is this the RIGHT tool to use in this situation? 34:06 – Aimee: If you are ever feeling super imposed about something then make sure you give it a fair shot, first. 34:28 – That’s the only reason why I keep watching DC movies. 34:41 – Chuck: Functional programming and... I see people react because of the hype cycle. It doesn’t fit into my current paradigm. Is it super popular for a few months or...? 35:10 – Aimee: I would love for someone to point out a way those pure functions that wouldn’t make their code more testable. 35:42 – Ethan: Give things a fair shake. This is going back a few years when React was starting to gain popularity. I had young programmers all about React. I tried it and mixing it with JavaScript and...I thought it was gross. Everyone went on board and I had to make technically decisions. A Friend told me that you have to try it 3 times and give up 3 times for you to get it. That was exactly it – don’t know if that was prophecy or something. This was one of my bigger professional mistakes because team wanted to use it and I didn’t at first. At the time we went with Vue (old dog like me). I cost us 80,000 lines of code and how many man hours because I wasn’t keeping an open-mind? 37:54 – Chuck: We can all say that with someone we’ve done. 38:04 – Panel shares a personal story. 38:32 – Panel: I sympathize because I had the same feeling as automated testing. That first time, that automated test saved me 3 hours. Oh My Gosh! What have I been missing! 39:12 – Ethan: Why should you do automated testing? Here is why... You have to not be afraid of testing. Not afraid of breaking things and getting messy. 39:51 – Panel: Immutability? 40:00 – Ethan talks about this topic. 42:58 – Chuck: You have summed up my experience with it. 43:10 – Panel: Yep. I agree. This is stupid why would I make a copy of a huge structure, when... 44:03 – Chuck: To Joe’s point – but it wasn’t just “this was a dumb way” – it was also trivial, too. I am doing all of these operations and look my memory doesn’t go through the roof. They you see it pay off. If you don’t see how it’s saving you effort, at first, then you really understand later. 44:58 – Aimee: Going back to it being a functional concept and making things more testable and let it being clearly separate things makes working in code a better experience. As I am working in a system that is NOT a pleasure. 45:31 – Chuck: It’s called legacy code... 45:38 – What is the code year? What constitutes a legacy application? 45:55 – Panel: 7 times – good rule. 46:10 – Aimee: I am not trolling. Serious conversation I was having with them this year. 46:27 – Just like cars. 46:34 – Chuck chimes in with his rule of thumb. 46:244 – Panel and Chuck go back-and-forth with this topic. 47:14 – Dilbert cartoons – check it out. 47:55 – GREAT QUOTE about life lessons. 48:09 – Chuck: I wish I knew then what I know now. Data binding. Flux and Redux. Lots of this came out of stuff around both data stores and shadow domes. How do you tease this out with the stuff that came out around the same time? 48:51 – Ethan answers question. 51:17 – Panel chimes in. 52:01 – Picks! Links: JavaScript jQuery React Elixir Elm Vue Automerge - GITHUB Functional – Light JavaScript Lego’s Massive Cloud City Star Wars Lego Shop The Traveler’s Gift – Book Jocks Rule, Nerds Drool by Jennifer Wright 2ality – JavaScript and more Cooper Press Book – Ethan Brown O’Reilly Community – Ethan Brown’s Bio Ethan Brown’s Twitter Sponsors: Kendo UI Sentry Digital Ocean Cache Fly   Picks: Aimee Pettier Joe Lego - Star Wars Betrayal at Cloud City Functional-Light JavaScript Charles The Traveler’s Gift The Shack The Expanse Ethan Jocks Rule, Nerd Drool JavaScipt Blog by Dr. Axel Rauschmayer Cooper Press

Panel: Charles Max Wood Dave Kimura Eric Berry Special Guests: Jeff Kreeftmeijer In this episode of Ruby Rogues, the panel talks to Jeff Kreeftmeijer who is a Ruby and Elixir developer at AppSignal. Jeff writes for the AppSignal's newsletter and has a blog. Check out today’s episode where the panel talks about AppSignal, Russian doll caching, Drifting Ruby, JavaScript Sprinkles, cache warming, N+1 plus other topics. Show Topics: 2:47 – Code Fund & New Relic. 3:40 – AppSignal might be the only support for Elixir. 4:12 – The integration, the ease was so simple and your (Jeff) documentation made it very easy. 4:46 – Comparatively to New Relic, AppSignal is cheaper, isn’t it? 4:59 – We don’t charge for host, we charge per request. That’s where to difference in price comes from. You get a number of requests in your plan. AppSignal – you pay for what you use. 5:50 – Chuck has used New Relic in the past, but only pay for the month that he needs. 6:07 – Panelist talks with Josh Adams and relays the conversation to the panel and the guest. 6:48 – Eric to Dave: Do you run into this with Drifting Ruby? Where people just pay for what they need and cancel afterwards. 7:41 – Dave: Yes, I do come across this. There isn’t much you can do about it. People will do what they need to do. 8:24 – Jeff: We don’t have a lot of this problem with AppSignal. By the way, I have never done that before – you are all horrible! ☺ 9:02 – Chuck: Let’s dive into is what is your approach to performance on Rails? 9:24 – We started the vlog series to help them with that. Sometimes you run into limits of what Ruby can do, and stuff like caching can help. It’s never really a single issue. That’s one of our challenges as a company to hook into everything (integration). We do support, per communication, to help with tech issues, but usually it’s set-up related. Everybody’s problems are different because everyone’s set-up is different. 11:02 – Chuck: Most of these posts are about caching and other topics. I’m going to go to something that I misunderstood for a while and that is Russian doll caching. I didn’t quite make the connection in my head. 11:40 – First, let’s talk about fragment caching. 13:49 – Jeff explains Russian doll caching. 18:44 – Chuck makes comments and asks Jeff a question. 19:43 – Jeff confirms the panelist’s answer. 22:00 – Jeff: Another solution is JavaScript Sprinkles. 22:27 – Digital Ocean’s Advertisement. 23:12 – Question from Chuck to Jeff. 23:38 – Chuck talks about what he will discuss at the Summit conference in October. 23:55 – Panelist has had experience with Russian doll caching. Performance can be smoke in mirrors. Application he worked on before, we did tons of caching (query caching, Russian doll caching, and others) it was all about handling the cache key. 25:32 – More comments about caching from another panelist. Cache warming is mentioned, too. 26:46 – How do you utilize cache warming? 27:39 – Chuck asks a question. 27:44 – Question answered. 28:12 – Does something like this exist for Phoenix? 28:28 – Jeff: I don’t think there is something like that for Phoenix. 28:50 – Chuck: When do you want to use one caching over another caching? 29:09 – Jeff: “Depends on a couple of things. N+1 is a feature and that you “should” rely on Russian doll caching, and generally that is not an accepted thing. You could do that, but that is applied to a specific thing. What do you guys think?” 30:31 – Panelist: Rendering partials is an expensive endeavor. 31:38 – This topic continues between panelists and Jeff. 32:25 – Jeff: Fragment caching is a good fit for that. 32:56 – Question: You have a blog, one of your posts that you talk about you discuss open source projects maintainable. Talk to me how that led you to write it? 33:32 – Jeff: Three things you should not do, based on mistakes that I made in the past. 1.) Navvy – had adapters for everything. 2.) Dropping support for older visions of your dependencies. 3.) Hand over projects if you can’t help anymore. This whole article is based on me messing up. 35:07 – Chuck makes some comments. 35:27 – Panelist: Ran into a problem the other day, there is a dependency that hasn’t been updated in over a year. They are waiting to solve all issues. I submitted an issue to be resolved. 37:02 – N+1 Queries – is it a bug or a feature? 37:12 – If you do nothing with it then it is a bug. 37:21 – Chuck: to me a bug is an issue. It’s not a bug it’s inefficiency unless you turn it into something else. 37:42 – Jeff: N+1 is an undesirable feature? It’s not necessarily a bug. You need a very reliable caching layer. 38:25 – Chuck: What is a very reliable caching layer? 38:38 – Jeff answers the question. 40:50 – Redis is mentioned. 42:04 – Jeff (guest) comments on the panelists’ thoughts. 42:37 – Picks? 42:57 – Advertisement: Chuck’s E-Book Course 43:34 – Picks Links: Get a Coder Job Course Ruby JavaScript Phoenix AppSignal Russian doll caching JavaScript Sprinkles. Cache Warming N+1 Query Redis Fragment Caching in Rails Fuubar Navvy AsciiDoc Home Page AsciiDoctor Elixir Mix – Meet Me.So New Relic Elixir Jeff Kreeftmeijer’s Website Jeff Kreeftmeijer’s Twitter Jeff Kreeftmeijer’s GitHub Jeff Kreeftmeijer’s AppSignal Blog Jeff Kreeftmeijer’s article, “Keeping open source...” Rails Bootsnap Sponsors: Sentry Digital Ocean Get a Coder Job Course Picks: Charles Notion.so Traveller’s Gift by Andy Andrews The Shack by William Paul Young Dave Drift Ruby Episode – Renderer Tool – Scroll Saw Eric Skitch – screen capture tool – free product Library by MERT / eggplanetio by Brian Gonzalez Jeff AsciiDoctor AsciiDoc Home Page Performance in Rails – Interview

Panel: Charles Max Wood Dave Kimura Eric Berry Special Guests: Jeff Kreeftmeijer In this episode of Ruby Rogues, the panel talks to Jeff Kreeftmeijer who is a Ruby and Elixir developer at AppSignal. Jeff writes for the AppSignal's newsletter and has a blog. Check out today’s episode where the panel talks about AppSignal, Russian doll caching, Drifting Ruby, JavaScript Sprinkles, cache warming, N+1 plus other topics. Show Topics: 2:47 – Code Fund & New Relic. 3:40 – AppSignal might be the only support for Elixir. 4:12 – The integration, the ease was so simple and your (Jeff) documentation made it very easy. 4:46 – Comparatively to New Relic, AppSignal is cheaper, isn’t it? 4:59 – We don’t charge for host, we charge per request. That’s where to difference in price comes from. You get a number of requests in your plan. AppSignal – you pay for what you use. 5:50 – Chuck has used New Relic in the past, but only pay for the month that he needs. 6:07 – Panelist talks with Josh Adams and relays the conversation to the panel and the guest. 6:48 – Eric to Dave: Do you run into this with Drifting Ruby? Where people just pay for what they need and cancel afterwards. 7:41 – Dave: Yes, I do come across this. There isn’t much you can do about it. People will do what they need to do. 8:24 – Jeff: We don’t have a lot of this problem with AppSignal. By the way, I have never done that before – you are all horrible! ☺ 9:02 – Chuck: Let’s dive into is what is your approach to performance on Rails? 9:24 – We started the vlog series to help them with that. Sometimes you run into limits of what Ruby can do, and stuff like caching can help. It’s never really a single issue. That’s one of our challenges as a company to hook into everything (integration). We do support, per communication, to help with tech issues, but usually it’s set-up related. Everybody’s problems are different because everyone’s set-up is different. 11:02 – Chuck: Most of these posts are about caching and other topics. I’m going to go to something that I misunderstood for a while and that is Russian doll caching. I didn’t quite make the connection in my head. 11:40 – First, let’s talk about fragment caching. 13:49 – Jeff explains Russian doll caching. 18:44 – Chuck makes comments and asks Jeff a question. 19:43 – Jeff confirms the panelist’s answer. 22:00 – Jeff: Another solution is JavaScript Sprinkles. 22:27 – Digital Ocean’s Advertisement. 23:12 – Question from Chuck to Jeff. 23:38 – Chuck talks about what he will discuss at the Summit conference in October. 23:55 – Panelist has had experience with Russian doll caching. Performance can be smoke in mirrors. Application he worked on before, we did tons of caching (query caching, Russian doll caching, and others) it was all about handling the cache key. 25:32 – More comments about caching from another panelist. Cache warming is mentioned, too. 26:46 – How do you utilize cache warming? 27:39 – Chuck asks a question. 27:44 – Question answered. 28:12 – Does something like this exist for Phoenix? 28:28 – Jeff: I don’t think there is something like that for Phoenix. 28:50 – Chuck: When do you want to use one caching over another caching? 29:09 – Jeff: “Depends on a couple of things. N+1 is a feature and that you “should” rely on Russian doll caching, and generally that is not an accepted thing. You could do that, but that is applied to a specific thing. What do you guys think?” 30:31 – Panelist: Rendering partials is an expensive endeavor. 31:38 – This topic continues between panelists and Jeff. 32:25 – Jeff: Fragment caching is a good fit for that. 32:56 – Question: You have a blog, one of your posts that you talk about you discuss open source projects maintainable. Talk to me how that led you to write it? 33:32 – Jeff: Three things you should not do, based on mistakes that I made in the past. 1.) Navvy – had adapters for everything. 2.) Dropping support for older visions of your dependencies. 3.) Hand over projects if you can’t help anymore. This whole article is based on me messing up. 35:07 – Chuck makes some comments. 35:27 – Panelist: Ran into a problem the other day, there is a dependency that hasn’t been updated in over a year. They are waiting to solve all issues. I submitted an issue to be resolved. 37:02 – N+1 Queries – is it a bug or a feature? 37:12 – If you do nothing with it then it is a bug. 37:21 – Chuck: to me a bug is an issue. It’s not a bug it’s inefficiency unless you turn it into something else. 37:42 – Jeff: N+1 is an undesirable feature? It’s not necessarily a bug. You need a very reliable caching layer. 38:25 – Chuck: What is a very reliable caching layer? 38:38 – Jeff answers the question. 40:50 – Redis is mentioned. 42:04 – Jeff (guest) comments on the panelists’ thoughts. 42:37 – Picks? 42:57 – Advertisement: Chuck’s E-Book Course 43:34 – Picks Links: Get a Coder Job Course Ruby JavaScript Phoenix AppSignal Russian doll caching JavaScript Sprinkles. Cache Warming N+1 Query Redis Fragment Caching in Rails Fuubar Navvy AsciiDoc Home Page AsciiDoctor Elixir Mix – Meet Me.So New Relic Elixir Jeff Kreeftmeijer’s Website Jeff Kreeftmeijer’s Twitter Jeff Kreeftmeijer’s GitHub Jeff Kreeftmeijer’s AppSignal Blog Jeff Kreeftmeijer’s article, “Keeping open source...” Rails Bootsnap Sponsors: Sentry Digital Ocean Get a Coder Job Course Picks: Charles Notion.so Traveller’s Gift by Andy Andrews The Shack by William Paul Young Dave Drift Ruby Episode – Renderer Tool – Scroll Saw Eric Skitch – screen capture tool – free product Library by MERT / eggplanetio by Brian Gonzalez Jeff AsciiDoctor AsciiDoc Home Page Performance in Rails – Interview

Panel: Charles Max Wood Dave Kimura Eric Berry Special Guests: Jeff Kreeftmeijer In this episode of Ruby Rogues, the panel talks to Jeff Kreeftmeijer who is a Ruby and Elixir developer at AppSignal. Jeff writes for the AppSignal's newsletter and has a blog. Check out today’s episode where the panel talks about AppSignal, Russian doll caching, Drifting Ruby, JavaScript Sprinkles, cache warming, N+1 plus other topics. Show Topics: 2:47 – Code Fund & New Relic. 3:40 – AppSignal might be the only support for Elixir. 4:12 – The integration, the ease was so simple and your (Jeff) documentation made it very easy. 4:46 – Comparatively to New Relic, AppSignal is cheaper, isn’t it? 4:59 – We don’t charge for host, we charge per request. That’s where to difference in price comes from. You get a number of requests in your plan. AppSignal – you pay for what you use. 5:50 – Chuck has used New Relic in the past, but only pay for the month that he needs. 6:07 – Panelist talks with Josh Adams and relays the conversation to the panel and the guest. 6:48 – Eric to Dave: Do you run into this with Drifting Ruby? Where people just pay for what they need and cancel afterwards. 7:41 – Dave: Yes, I do come across this. There isn’t much you can do about it. People will do what they need to do. 8:24 – Jeff: We don’t have a lot of this problem with AppSignal. By the way, I have never done that before – you are all horrible! ☺ 9:02 – Chuck: Let’s dive into is what is your approach to performance on Rails? 9:24 – We started the vlog series to help them with that. Sometimes you run into limits of what Ruby can do, and stuff like caching can help. It’s never really a single issue. That’s one of our challenges as a company to hook into everything (integration). We do support, per communication, to help with tech issues, but usually it’s set-up related. Everybody’s problems are different because everyone’s set-up is different. 11:02 – Chuck: Most of these posts are about caching and other topics. I’m going to go to something that I misunderstood for a while and that is Russian doll caching. I didn’t quite make the connection in my head. 11:40 – First, let’s talk about fragment caching. 13:49 – Jeff explains Russian doll caching. 18:44 – Chuck makes comments and asks Jeff a question. 19:43 – Jeff confirms the panelist’s answer. 22:00 – Jeff: Another solution is JavaScript Sprinkles. 22:27 – Digital Ocean’s Advertisement. 23:12 – Question from Chuck to Jeff. 23:38 – Chuck talks about what he will discuss at the Summit conference in October. 23:55 – Panelist has had experience with Russian doll caching. Performance can be smoke in mirrors. Application he worked on before, we did tons of caching (query caching, Russian doll caching, and others) it was all about handling the cache key. 25:32 – More comments about caching from another panelist. Cache warming is mentioned, too. 26:46 – How do you utilize cache warming? 27:39 – Chuck asks a question. 27:44 – Question answered. 28:12 – Does something like this exist for Phoenix? 28:28 – Jeff: I don’t think there is something like that for Phoenix. 28:50 – Chuck: When do you want to use one caching over another caching? 29:09 – Jeff: “Depends on a couple of things. N+1 is a feature and that you “should” rely on Russian doll caching, and generally that is not an accepted thing. You could do that, but that is applied to a specific thing. What do you guys think?” 30:31 – Panelist: Rendering partials is an expensive endeavor. 31:38 – This topic continues between panelists and Jeff. 32:25 – Jeff: Fragment caching is a good fit for that. 32:56 – Question: You have a blog, one of your posts that you talk about you discuss open source projects maintainable. Talk to me how that led you to write it? 33:32 – Jeff: Three things you should not do, based on mistakes that I made in the past. 1.) Navvy – had adapters for everything. 2.) Dropping support for older visions of your dependencies. 3.) Hand over projects if you can’t help anymore. This whole article is based on me messing up. 35:07 – Chuck makes some comments. 35:27 – Panelist: Ran into a problem the other day, there is a dependency that hasn’t been updated in over a year. They are waiting to solve all issues. I submitted an issue to be resolved. 37:02 – N+1 Queries – is it a bug or a feature? 37:12 – If you do nothing with it then it is a bug. 37:21 – Chuck: to me a bug is an issue. It’s not a bug it’s inefficiency unless you turn it into something else. 37:42 – Jeff: N+1 is an undesirable feature? It’s not necessarily a bug. You need a very reliable caching layer. 38:25 – Chuck: What is a very reliable caching layer? 38:38 – Jeff answers the question. 40:50 – Redis is mentioned. 42:04 – Jeff (guest) comments on the panelists’ thoughts. 42:37 – Picks? 42:57 – Advertisement: Chuck’s E-Book Course 43:34 – Picks Links: Get a Coder Job Course Ruby JavaScript Phoenix AppSignal Russian doll caching JavaScript Sprinkles. Cache Warming N+1 Query Redis Fragment Caching in Rails Fuubar Navvy AsciiDoc Home Page AsciiDoctor Elixir Mix – Meet Me.So New Relic Elixir Jeff Kreeftmeijer’s Website Jeff Kreeftmeijer’s Twitter Jeff Kreeftmeijer’s GitHub Jeff Kreeftmeijer’s AppSignal Blog Jeff Kreeftmeijer’s article, “Keeping open source...” Rails Bootsnap Sponsors: Sentry Digital Ocean Get a Coder Job Course Picks: Charles Notion.so Traveller’s Gift by Andy Andrews The Shack by William Paul Young Dave Drift Ruby Episode – Renderer Tool – Scroll Saw Eric Skitch – screen capture tool – free product Library by MERT / eggplanetio by Brian Gonzalez Jeff AsciiDoctor AsciiDoc Home Page Performance in Rails – Interview

Chuck Most and Patrick O'Heffernan interview Deneen Borelli, author of Blacklash - How Obama and the Left Are Driving Americans to the Government Plantation, Albert Navarra, author of The Elements of Constitutional Law and Federal Appeals Court Judge J. Harvey Wilkinson III, author of Cosmic Constitutional Theory: Why Americans Are Losing Their Inalienable Right to Self-Governance (Inalienable Rights) About Judge Wilkinson: J. Harvie Wilkinson III was appointed to the United States Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit by Ronald Reagan. He has served on that court since 1984 and as its Chief Judge from 1996 to 2003. He has been frequently on the short list of prospects for the Supreme Court and is regarded as one of the nation's premier appellate jurists. His books include From Brown to Bakke: The Supreme Court and School Integration, 1954-1978. He lives in Charlottesville, Virginia.