Podcasts about New Relic

En esta tertulia de alto nivel sobre startups, inteligencia artificial y transformación empresarial, los Jordi, Bernat, Marcel y David abordan temas clave como la compraventa de empresas tecnológicas, el mercado laboral en el sector IT, el auge del trabajo remoto, y el cambio en la relación entre empleados y empleadores. Se profundiza en los desafíos de crear una startup, cómo atraer talento senior, y la necesidad de transparencia salarial.Además, se analiza el impacto real de la IA en sectores como el desarrollo de software, el marketing y la agricultura, y se cuestionan valoraciones multimillonarias como la de LoveFrom por parte de OpenAI. También se comparan las estrategias tecnológicas de Google y Microsoft, se discuten modelos de negocio sostenibles frente al hype, y se reflexiona sobre la viabilidad financiera de startups de IA como Perplexity.Finalmente, se presentan casos de éxito como Dertack, una innovadora plataforma de generación de leads a partir de ofertas de empleo, y Névoda Farms, una startup agroindustrial que aplica tecnología para escalar su producción vegetal con eficiencia.

Reinvention beats repetition every time. In a crowded market, it's reimagination that sets you apart.That's the real lesson behind The New Look, a drama that follows Christian Dior as he rebuilds a whole new vision of fashion. In this episode, we're taking inspiration from that spirit of transformation with the help of our special guest, Hrishi Kulkarni, Director of Customer Advocacy & Executive Programs at dbt Labs.Together, we explore what B2B marketers can learn from narrative-driven branding, thoughtful reinvention, and the power of showing up with both creativity and compassion.About our guest, Hrishi KulkarniHrishi Kulkarni leads customer advocacy and executive programs at dbt Labs. Previously, Hrishi served as Head of Customer Marketing & Executive Programs at New Relic. He has also worked at Salesforce in Customer Engagement and Marketing and QStream in Customer Success and Professional Services. Hrishi brings with him over 16 years of experience in customer engagement. He is also an equality champion, SF LGBT Center board member and founder of LGBTQ+ ERGs in India and Asia.What B2B Companies Can Learn From The New Look:Storytelling is your superpower. In The New Look, Christian Dior tells stories through his fashion. His work is infused with personal meaning, from tributes to his sister to inspiration from his mother. Hrishi says, “Marketing is all about storytelling. I joined marketing because I love storytelling… it emotionally connects your product and your services to your audience.” In B2B, storytelling isn't fluff, it's how you make people care. It's how you stand out. Don't just tell your audience what your product does, tell them why it matters.Innovation only works when it's authentic. Dior's most memorable move wasn't a massive runway spectacle; it was an intimate, unexpected fashion show that broke every rule. Hrishi explains, “He's not going to have a huge fashion show… He's going to create it in a very small space, a very personalized experience. Which never before any designer had done.” That decision wasn't flashy for the sake of it. It was deeply intentional. For B2B marketers, it's a reminder that innovation doesn't mean gimmicks. It means staying true to your values and finding fresh, genuine ways to express them.Repetition kills good content. Dior didn't copy what worked, he created what was next. Hrishi says, “As a customer marketer… we have to be creative in identifying and securing the right stories and then finding innovative ways to amplify those stories. If you keep amplifying different stories also in similar ways, at some point it is going to fall flat.” B2B marketers often default to the same formats: another case study, another quote, another video. But to keep your audience engaged, you have to rethink how you tell your stories, not just what stories you tell.Quotes*“ I love storytelling. It's because, if you think about it, storytelling truly impacts people's hearts and minds. It emotionally connects your product and your services to your audience. And that's exactly what Dior has done with his fashion. Like the perfume story you shared earlier, right? It's inspired by his sister. Like a lot of his design of his costumes, of his art, his all comes inspired from his mother. So he truly shows us how storytelling can drive the fashion industry. He started his fashion through the art of storytelling. Also thinking outside the box. If you saw the show, he's constantly innovating. He's constantly thinking outside the box. And as a customer marketer, you have to be constantly creative in identifying and securing the right stories and then finding innovative ways to amplify those stories. If you keep amplifying different stories also in similar ways, at some point it is going to fall flat. So it's always “how can I be innovative with these stories?” And then of course thought leadership, right? It's storytelling or thinking outside the box, being creative to showcase the thought leadership of your customers, their brand.”*“ In terms of B2B, customers love to hear how other customers are doing, how they're using your platform. .And I always say that what makes a kickass story is it has to be data driven and there has to be some human element to it. And now that's your recipe of a powerful story. ”*“ In a B2B world, we create all these customer stories, but what's our end goal? Our end goal is how are my sales teams, my how are my account executives going to leverage this story with other prospects, with other customers. So truly thinking that buyer journey, how are your different stories going to influence every stage in that buyer journey?”*“ Being authentic is so important in marketing. That is something we learned from The New Look. Be authentic in what you do. The passion comes across genuinely. It comes across easily. It's very evident. Be innovative. Don't be afraid to take risks.”Time Stamps[0:55] Meet Hrishi Kulkarni, Customer Advocacy & Executive Programs Lead at dbt Labs[01:10] Why The New Look?[04:19] Customer Advocacy & Executive Programs at dbt Labs[06:54] Origins of The New Look[11:54] B2B Marketing Takeaways from The New Look[24:57] Building a Strong Content Strategy[27:53] Measuring ROI in Customer Marketing[32:08] dbt Labs Executive Sponsorship Program[34:12] Advice for Marketing LeadersLinksConnect with Hrishi on LinkedInLearn more about dbt LabsAbout Remarkable!Remarkable! is created by the team at Caspian Studios, the premier B2B Podcast-as-a-Service company. Caspian creates both nonfiction and fiction series for B2B companies. If you want a fiction series check out our new offering - The Business Thriller - Hollywood style storytelling for B2B. Learn more at CaspianStudios.com. In today's episode, you heard from Ian Faison (CEO of Caspian Studios) and Meredith Gooderham (Head of Production). Remarkable was produced this week by Jess Avellino, mixed by Scott Goodrich, and our theme song is “Solomon” by FALAK. Create something remarkable. Rise above the noise.

"Having the insight and being able to stitch together your technical resources and business decisions together, is the prime place where observability can add value to you,” stated Manesh Tailor, EMEA Field CTO at New Relic.In this episode of the Tech Transformed podcast, Kevin Petrie, Vice President of Research at BARC, speaks with Manesh Tailor about the intersection of artificial intelligence (AI) and observability, and how this is positively changing business operations.Tailor emphasises how intelligent observability has changed beyond simple monitoring to provide real-time insights into customer experience and the entire technology stack. This enables informed decisions across engineering, operations, and business domains, directly linking technical performance to strategic business outcomes.He also discusses the different stages observability has been through and where it's leading to now. The current wave, Observability 3.0, takes advantage of AI to predict issues and even enable self-healing systems. New Relic has embraced this two-way street, using AI within its platform. This was in an ambition to help users and "AI monitoring" to track the performance of language models alongside traditional metrics. Such a platform provides a holistic view of system health and the cost implications of AI deployments.Alluding to the management of AI-powered applications, Tailor says collaboration is key between application and data science teams. Not only does it provide real time data but as a result leads to efficient decision making.Futuristically, the speedy proliferation of AI agents has both pros and cons for observability. This is where New Relic comes in. It addresses the challenges by constructing a platform-centric "AI orchestrator" with a growing library of AI-native agents. In essence, as AI-powered applications become increasingly integral to business operations, intelligent observability is no longer optional. TakeawaysObservability is crucial for understanding unknowns in systems.AI enhances observability by providing predictive insights.The evolution of observability includes intelligent monitoring.Collaboration between technical and business teams is essential.Cost efficiency is a key focus in modern observability.Real-time data is vital for effective decision-making.Self-healing systems represent the future of observability.AI and observability must work in tandem for success.The complexity of systems is increasing, requiring better tools.Observability is applicable across all organizational levels.Chapters00:00 Introduction to AI and Observability03:10 Defining Observability and Its Evolution05:49 The Role of AI in Observability08:46 Navigating AI-Driven Applications11:52 Target Users and Community for Observability14:57 Collaboration Across Teams17:55 Challenges and Opportunities in Observability20:47 The Future of Observability and AI23:54 Key Takeaways for CIOs and IT LeadersAbout New RelicThe New Relic Intelligent Observability Platform empowers businesses to proactively eliminate disruptions in their digital experiences. As the only AI-enhanced platform that unifies and correlates telemetry data, New...

New Relic's Head of AI and ML Innovation, Camden Swita discusses their four-cornered AI strategy and envisions a future of "agentic orchestration" with specialized agents.Topics Include:Introduction of Camden Swita, Head of AI at New Relic.New Relic invented the observability space for monitoring applications.Started with Java workloads monitoring and APM.Evolved into full-stack observability with infrastructure and browser monitoring.Uses advanced query language (NRQL) with time series database.AI strategy focuses on AI ops for automation.First cornerstone: Intelligent detection capabilities with machine learning.Second cornerstone: Incident response with generative AI assistance.Third cornerstone: Problem management with root cause analysis.Fourth cornerstone: Knowledge management to improve future detection.Initially overwhelmed by "ocean of possibilities" with LLMs.Needed narrow scope and guardrails for measurable progress.Natural language to NRQL translation proved immensely complex.Selecting from thousands of possible events caused accuracy issues.Shifted from "one tool" approach to many specialized tools.Created routing layer to select right tool for each job.Evaluation of NRQL is challenging even when syntactically correct.Implemented multi-stage validation with user confirmation step.AWS partnership involves fine-tuning models for NRQL translation.Using Bedrock to select appropriate models for different tasks.Initially advised prototyping on biggest, best available models.Now recommends considering specialized, targeted models from start.Agent development platforms have improved significantly since beginning.Future focus: "Agentic orchestration" with specialized agents.Envisions agents communicating through APIs without human prompts.Integration with AWS tools like Amazon Q.Industry possibly plateauing in large language model improvements.Increasing focus on inference-time compute in newer models.Context and quality prompts remain crucial despite model advances.Potential pros and cons to inference-time compute approach.Participants:Camden Swita – Head of AI & ML Innovation, Product Management, New RelicSee how Amazon Web Services gives you the freedom to migrate, innovate, and scale your software company at https://aws.amazon/isv/

This week on That Tech Pod, Laura and Kevin sit down with tech veteran and AI thought leader Ken Gavranovic, CEO of Product Genius, for a lively and insightful conversation that spans AI, ethics, innovation and pop culture. Ken opens up about his challenging childhood, sharing how it sparked a passion for technology and a desire to build tools that could truly make a difference, much like the kid in the movie War Games. From early fumbles in fax software that made others millions but netted him nothing to working with tech giants like Disney and 7-Eleven, Ken walks us through his evolution into the AI space and why he believes AI will have the most substantial impact on humanity. We talk about ethical AI and data privacy, especially when it comes to children and younger audiences, how to leverage AI insights without drowning in data and the key contrasts in AI adoption between big corporations and smaller businesses. Laura and Ken geek out about functional health, from UV-cap water bottles to proactive blood testing to the very real fears (ahem, Laura) about robot uprisings from a tangent on the movie Smart House, the series Cassandra and The Terminator movies. Plus, we discuss recycled toilet paper and sustainability with a shoutout to Who Gives a Crap, and wrap things up with a peek into Ken's Amazon best-seller, Business Breakthrough 3.0, a must-read for any leader navigating digital transformation. Tune in for an episode that's smart, human, and just the right amount of tech-weird.Ken Gavranovic is a global keynote speaker, a seasoned technology executive, and the CEO of Product Genius, where he leads the development of AI-powered tools that transform real-time data into actionable customer insights, driving service improvements and operational efficiency. With over two decades of experience, Ken has helped businesses—from startups to global brands like Disney World and 7-Eleven—leverage cutting-edge tech to achieve measurable results. He has led 18 successful exits, 35 mergers and acquisitions, and an IPO, and has held key executive roles at New Relic and Cox Automotive. A global keynote speaker and member of Thinkers50 and the Forbes Council, Ken is also a co-author of the Amazon best-seller Business Breakthrough 3.0, a practical guide for leaders navigating digital transformation and scaling operations.

In this week's episode of The Venue Rx Podcast, host Jonathan Aymin sits down with Ken Gavranovic, CEO of Product Genius, to explore how AI is shaking up the wedding venue industry. Ken shares eye-opening insights on how AI is changing the way couples discover venues—especially through search engines like Google—and how it's helping businesses create more meaningful, personalized customer experiences.From streamlining day-to-day operations to gathering real-time feedback, Ken breaks down how venue owners can harness AI to boost efficiency and improve service. He also dives into practical strategies for using AI to stay competitive, manage online reviews, and build stronger client relationships. About Our Guest: Ken Gavranovic is a hands-on tech leader, global keynote speaker, and member of both Thinkers50 and the Forbes Council. With over 20 years of experience, he's helped traditional businesses harness the power of AI and emerging tech to get fast, real-world results. Ken has partnered with top venture firms, led 18+ successful exits, 35 mergers and acquisitions, and even taken a company public. He's also brought innovation to major brands like Disney World and 7-Eleven, using technology to boost customer experience and streamline operations.As CEO of Product Genius, Ken is building AI tools that turn real-time data into personalized customer interactions—helping businesses improve service, efficiency, and stay ahead of the competition. He previously founded Interland (now Web.com), growing it from zero to $200 million in just three years and guiding it through an IPO. He's also held executive roles at New Relic and Cox Automotive, where he led digital transformations that made a big impact on both customers and teams.Ken has spoken at 50+ events around the world, sharing practical insights on AI, scaling, and driving growth. He's also co-author of the Amazon bestseller Business Breakthrough 3.0, which lays out a clear five-step roadmap for leaders to drive change, align teams, and grow with purposeFind Him Here: Email: ken@kengavranovic.comWebsite: https://kengavranovic.com/Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gavranovic/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kengavranovic/X: https://twitter.com/kgavranovic

New Relic's Chief Customer Officer Arnaldo (Arnie) Lopez details how their observability platform helps 70,000+ customers monitor cloud performance through AWS infrastructure while introducing AI capabilities that simplify operations.Topics Include:Arnie Lopez is SVP, Chief Customer Officer at New Relic.Oversees pre-sales, post-sales, technical support, and enablement teams.New Relic University offers customer certifications.Founded in 2008, pioneered application performance monitoring (APM).Now offers "Observability 3.0" for full-stack visibility.Prevents interruptions during cloud migration and operations.Serves 70,000+ customers across various industries.16,000 enterprise-level paying customers.Platform consolidates multiple monitoring tools into one solution.Helps detect issues before customers experience performance problems.Market challenge: customers using disparate observability solutions.Reduces TCO by eliminating multiple monitoring tools.Targets VPs, CTOs, CIOs, and sometimes CEOs.Decade-long partnership with AWS.Platform built on largest unified telemetry data cloud.Uses AWS Graviton instances and Amazon EKS.AWS partnership enables innovation and customer trust.Three AI approaches: user assistance, LLM monitoring, faster insights.New Relic AI helps write query language (NURCLs).Monitors LLMs in customer environments.Uses AI to accelerate incident resolution.Lesson learned: should have started AI implementation sooner.Many customers still cautiously adopting AI technologies.Goal: continue growth with AWS partnership.Offers compute-based pricing model.Customers only pay for what they use.Announced one-step AWS monitoring for enterprise scale.Amazon Q Business and New Relic AI integration.Agent-to-agent AI eliminates data silos.Embeds performance insights into business application workflows.Participants:Arnie Lopez – SVP Chief Customer Officer, New RelicSee how Amazon Web Services gives you the freedom to migrate, innovate, and scale your software company at https://aws.amazon/isv/

Ishan Mukherjee is the Co-Founder/CEO of Rox, a Sequoia-backed AI-powered sales productivity platform. Before Rox, he was the Chief Growth Officer at New Relic where he scaled the self-serve business from $0-$100M in ARR. Prior to New Relic, Ishan founded Pixie Labs (acq by New Relic). Before that he led product at Siri Knowledge Graph at Apple, Lattice Data (acquired by Apple), Premise Data, and Amazon Robotics. Ishan was also an early engineer in Kiva (acquired by Amazon) where he joined after graduating from MIT. In Today's Episode We Discuss: 04:50 Biggest Lessons Scaling New Relic's PLG to $100M in ARR 05:59 How to Do PLG and Enterprise at the Same Time 07:00 How to do Content in a PLG World 08:50 Performance Marketing or Organic Content: What Works for PLG 10:27 Why You Should Stop Marketing at Events 11:47 Why SEM is a Cartel 14:15 Why Unpaid Design Partners are BS 17:17 How AI Changes the World of Enterprise Sales: Commit-Based vs. Usage-Based  20:49 How to do Sales Compensation Plans 24:44 How to Ramp New Sales Reps 25:03 The Impact of AI on Sales Research 29:18 How to do Deep Customer Research in an AI World 35:56 Changing Spending Patterns in SaaS 41:41 Retention and Churn in Enterprise AI 43:31 The Future of Sales Teams with AI 44:45 Hiring and Scaling Sales Teams 54:28 Quickfire    

Building a partner ecosystem from the ground up isn't for the faint of heart—it takes vision, strategy, and a deep commitment to collaboration. In this episode of Partnerships Unraveled, we sit down with Larissa Crandall, Global VP of Channel & Alliances at New Relic, to explore how she's scaling a global partner strategy with precision and impact.Larissa shares the foundational steps she took to establish a thriving channel program, why she prioritizes quality over quantity when selecting partners, and how she ensures alignment across sales, finance, and the C-suite. We also dive into the importance of an outside-in approach—how listening to partners and customers shapes a winning strategy—and why CFO buy-in is critical for long-term channel success.From structuring co-sell motions to fostering executive engagement, this conversation is packed with actionable insights for anyone looking to build (or rebuild) a high-performing partner program. Plus, Larissa shares her passion for mentorship and why investing in the next generation of channel leaders is key to sustaining industry growth.If you're serious about building a channel strategy that scales, this is an episode you don't want to miss.Connect with Larissa: https://www.linkedin.com/in/larissacrandall/_________________________Learn more about Channext

Max Bausher and Brian are the Co-Founders of Twine, bridging product and go-to-market teams by integrating insights across calls, CRM, and roadmaps.Max, Twine's COO, brings expertise from leadership roles at CrowdStrike and New Relic, specialising in technical-business alignment.Brian, Twine's CEO, has led product and GTM teams at SafetyCulture, Atlassian, Dovetail, and Twitter.Together, they are redefining how teams collaborate to deliver exceptional customer experiences.This is their first ever in-depth public interview.Hosted by Vidit Agarwal, Founder of Curiosity Center and The High Flyers Podcast.It's now time to explore your curiosity.    ***Sponsor offers just for you:-> Find out more about Vanta's special offer exclusively for you at https://vanta.com/high and get a special offer of $1,000 off to access your very own compliance superpower for your business today.-> Check out https://remote.com/ and book your demo today and use our exclusive promo code EVREMOTE10 to unlock 10% off their:Employer of Record services on all full-time hires, Contractor Management Plus services and Global Payroll services during your first year with Remote.***If you're keen to discuss sponsorship and partnering with us, email us at vidit@thehighflyerspodcast.com today!Hosted by Vidit Agarwal, Founder of Curiosity Center and The High Flyers Podcast.It's now time to explore your curiosity.    ***CLICK HERE to read show notes from this conversation. Please enjoy!***Follow us on Instagram, LinkedIn or TwitterGet in touch with our Founder and Host, Vidit Agarwal directly hereContact us via our website to discuss sponsorship opportunities, recommend future guests or share feedback, we love hearing how to improve! Thank you for rating / reviewing this podcast on Apple Podcasts and Spotify, it helps others find us and convince guests to come on the show! ***The High Flyers Podcast re-imagines the traditional notion of a "high flyer" and is a premier product of the Curiosity Center. The podcast showcases the journeys of relatable role models from their sunrise (childhood) to today. Listeners love the unique and direct inside access to these relatable role models, companies and industries in every walk of life to help us all be 1% better everyday, together.190+ guests have joined Vidit Agarwal on the show from around the world including Heads of state, Olympians, Business and cultural leaders, Social Advocates, Investors, Entrepreneurs and more. Past guests include: Anil Sabharwal, Mark Suster, Ahmed Fahour, Holly Ransom, Daniel Petre, Paul Bassat, Simon Holmes a Court, Michael Traill, Osher Gunsberg, Ed Cowan, Carol Schwartz, Wyatt Roy, Jack Zhang, Martijn Wilder, Holly Kramer, Dom Price, Sam Kroonenburg, Mike Schneider, Rod Hamilton and more.Our parent company, Curiosity Center is your on-demand intelligence hub for knowledge, connections and growth to achieve your potential, everyday. Join 200,000+ Investors, Founders, Corporate Execs, CEOs and Emerging Leaders. Learn with the world's best and be 1% better everyday at https://curiositycentre.com***

Today on the Invest In Her podcast, host Catherine Gray speaks with Mariane Bekker, a seasoned tech executive with over a decade of experience leading high-performing engineering teams at top startups like New Relic and Mindbody. Currently, she is the Managing Partner at Founders Bay, a premier venture studio dedicated to AI startups in the Bay Area, where she connects a thriving community of 30,000 founders and investors through events, virtual workshops, and fundraising resources. Additionally, Mariane is the force behind Women Founders Bay, one of the largest networks for female tech entrepreneurs, providing invaluable mentorship, resources, and networking opportunities to empower women in the industry. In this episode, Mariane dives into the evolving landscape of AI-driven startups, sharing insights on how entrepreneurs can successfully navigate the tech world. She discusses the importance of community-building, the challenges women founders face, and the role of venture studios in accelerating innovation. Catherine and Mariane also explore strategies for fundraising, scaling businesses, and fostering a more inclusive startup ecosystem. This conversation is packed with actionable advice for aspiring and established entrepreneurs alike! https://www.foundersbay.com/ https://www.womenfoundersbay.com/ www.sheangelinvestors.com    Follow Us On Social Facebook @sheangelinvestors Twitter (X) @sheangelsinvest Instagram @sheangelinvestors & @catherinegray_investinher LinkedIn @catherinelgray & @sheangels

What makes observability powerful for modern cloud environments? I had a discussion with Oren Ben-Shaul, Group VP of Product Management, New Relic on The Ravit Show at AWS re: Invent.Oren shared his expert perspective on the role of observability in today's cloud-first world and how it is enabling businesses to gain deeper insights into their operations.Key highlights from the discussion:-- Oren's view on what observability truly means and why it's crucial for modern organizations-- What customers are saying about observability and the challenges they're addressing-- The strategic partnership between AWS and New Relic and how it's delivering value to customers#data #ai #awsreinvent #awsreinvent2024 #reinvent2024 #newrelic #theravitshow

I had a great discussion with Camden Swita, Head of AI & ML Innovation at New Relic, on The Ravit Show at AWS re: Invent!We discussed how AI and ML are transforming observability and operations, diving into innovative concepts like AIOps and Agentic Orchestrations. Camden also shared how New Relic is leveraging AI to enhance forecasting in predictive analytics and drive meaningful business insights.Key highlights from our conversation:-- How AIOps is shaping the future of operations and observability-- The role of AI within New Relic's offerings to empower data-driven decision-making-- Agentic Orchestrations and their impact on automating workflows and responses-- Advances in forecasting with predictive analytics for proactive insightsIt was a great discussion on the future of AI-powered observability and its potential to transform how businesses operate.#data #ai #awsreinvent #awsreinvent2024 #reinvent2024 #newrelic #theravitshow

In this episode of "ThinkFuture," host Chris Kalaboukis sits down with tech veteran Ken, who shares his fascinating journey from the early days of web hosting to leading-edge AI applications. Ken recounts his entrepreneurial beginnings with a successful web hosting company and his transition into enterprise tech consulting. He discusses his pivotal role at New Relic, where he saw firsthand how AI could revolutionize troubleshooting in software development. Ken then delves into his work with Blameless, where he helped foster a culture where AI aids in incident response without finger-pointing. His most recent endeavor, Product Genius, aims to deploy AI assistants in physical spaces to enhance customer interactions and operational efficiency. The conversation wraps up with Ken's vision for AI's role in reshaping industries, emphasizing augmentation over replacement of human roles.---Connect with Ken here: https://kengavranovic.comThe First Future Planner: Record First, Action Later: https://foremark.usBe A Better YOU with AI: Join The Community: ⁠https://10xyou.us⁠Get AIDAILY every weekday. ⁠https://aidaily.us⁠My blog: ⁠https://thinkfuture.com

Stack Overflow upada, a DeepSeek AI wkracza na scenę w najnowszym odcinku Short #64. Patoarchitekci analizują upadek legendarnej platformy programistów i badają chińskiego konkurenta dla ChatGPT. Zespół zagłębia się w świat Cloudflare SSH na żądanie i demaskuje marketingowy szum wokół Observability 2.0. Networking wraca do łask, a eBPF może zastąpić drogie narzędzia monitoringu? Masz dość wydawania fortuny na Dynatrace czy New Relic? Dołącz do dyskusji o tym, jak open source i sprytne rozwiązania mogą uratować Twój budżet IT. Posłuchaj, zanim Twój szef podpisze kolejną kosztowną umowę!   A teraz nie ma co się obijać!

Episode SummaryIn this episode of OnBase, host Chris Moody sits down with Kelly Flowers to discuss the power of systems-based strategy in driving predictable outcomes in sales development. Kelly shares her unique journey into sales, the lessons she learned from transitioning industries, and how she developed a structured approach to pipeline generation, OKRs, and sales efficiency. She also highlights the biggest challenges in sales today, the role of AI in streamlining sales processes, and the myths that hold sales teams back. With practical insights and actionable strategies, this conversation is a must-listen for revenue leaders looking to optimize their go-to-market strategies and drive consistent results. About the Guest Kelly Flowers serves as the AVP, of Global Sales Development at SentinelOne and previously held positions including Head of Sales and Business Development at 1Password, Director of AMER Sales Development at Databricks, and Senior Manager of Customer Success, Enterprise Renewals at New Relic, Inc.  Additionally, Kelly has experience as a Manager of Sales Development and as an SDR Manager at Wizeline, as well as serving as the San Francisco Community Chair for Women in Sales Everywhere (WISE). Kelly holds a degree in Global Studies & Spanish, International Relations from Sonoma State University and has also studied Spanish Language at Tecnológico de Monterrey. Connect with Kelly Key Takeaways- Systems Thinking vs. Goal Setting: Goals help you achieve one-time success, but systems-based strategies ensure sustainable, repeatable success. - Pipeline Predictability Comes from Process: Breaking down the sales cycle into measurable inputs and outputs helps reps consistently hit quota. - Behavior Matters as Much as Performance: Being a "quota crusher" isn't enough—collaboration, integrity, and consistency are key to long-term success. - AI as a Sales Multiplier, Not a Replacement: Sales professionals must leverage AI tools for research, prioritization, and process automation—but human connection remains essential. Quotes "Revenue intelligence makes arguments about 'who said what' obsolete by providing unfiltered, real-time data everyone can trust." Recommended Resources Books:- Setting the Table by Danny Meyer Newsletter: - Endurance by Katie Ceccarini Podcast: - Grit with Joubin Mirzadegan Connect with Kelly⁠ ⁠⁠⁠| ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow us on LinkedIn ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠| ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Website

Melton Littlepage is a seasoned marketing executive with over two decades of experience driving innovation, creating new categories, and accelerating growth in the technology sector. Currently the Chief Marketing Officer at 1Password, Melton previously held the same role at Outreach, where he led comprehensive global marketing teams to enhance brand presence and revenue generation. His prior leadership roles include transformative contributions at Tenable in cybersecurity, New Relic in software analytics, Schoology in edtech, and Concur, a multi-billion dollar global B2B SaaS leader. His expertise spans strategic communications, brand management, demand generation, and customer engagement across diverse domains.1Password is a secure password management tool that helps individuals and businesses store, manage, and use passwords and sensitive information safely. It features strong password generation, secure storage, encrypted data protection, and cross-platform accessibility. Ideal for personal and enterprise use, 1Password supports secure credential sharing, password hygiene monitoring, and integration with business tools, offering a user-friendly solution for enhancing digital security.On today's show, Alan and Melton discuss 1Password and its role in the cybersecurity space, exploring how Melton differentiates the brand. They explore 1Password's strategic move into the golf industry through the Presidents Cup and the potential power of sports marketing. Melton shares his approach to crafting marketing strategies for both B2B and B2C audiences. They end by examining how trends like Formula 1's resurgence and the popularity of longform podcasts are shifting the way we should think about marketing.In this episode, you'll learn:The strategy behind a bold marketing move Insight on how to successfully pitch a new strategyHow Formula 1 and longform podcasts are reshaping the way we approach marketingKey Highlights:[01:11] Personal story: Fear of heights[04:05] Career path to 1Password[11:42] What is going on in the cybersecurity industry[13:56] How 1Password is approaching security[16:33] Differentiating within industry[19:19] Recent sports marketing move with golf [24:12] The pitch [27:04] An experience from your past that defines you[29:08] Advice to your younger self[30:32] A topic that marketers need to learn more about: Mapping your buyers journey[33:04] Trends or subcultures others should follow: Formula 1 movement[36:00] Largest opportunity or threat to marketers today: Longform podcastLooking for more?Visit our website for the full show notes, links to resources mentioned in this episode, and ways to connect with the guest! Become a member today and listen ad-free, visit https://plus.acast.com/s/marketingtoday. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What can VC and PE companies do when faced with pressures from investors, customers, and regulators to report ESG metrics more accurately and dedicate more resources to the process? SFP guests Charlie Mahoney, Head of U.S. Sales at Novata, and Simone Wren, ESG and Sustainability Director at New Relic, bring first-hand experience and insights to how private companies can achieve their sustainability and business goals, like increasing employee retention, reducing their carbon footprint, and building more financially efficient business systems.

In today's episode, Matt interviews Ed Diller, Sales Leader at New Relic. They explore effective coaching practices and myths in sales leadership. They discuss the importance of strategic communication, creating win-win scenarios, and maintaining work-life balance in a post-COVID world. Ed shares valuable lessons from his extensive career, emphasizing the need for risk-taking, clear communication, and the benefits of focusing on strengths. He also highlights the role of coaching in career progression and how leaders can foster engagement and avoid burnout in hybrid work environments. Takeaways:Ensure clear and concise communication, especially when working remotely. Utilize tools to mitigate grammatical errors and enhance the professionalism of communications.Use virtual face-to-face meetings (via Zoom or similar platforms) to maintain human connection and engagement within the team. Promote informal interactions to build camaraderie.Focus on being invited to higher-level discussions rather than bypassing immediate contacts. Build rapport and trust with initial points of contact before aiming for discussions with their superiors.Address the need for work-life balance in a remote work environment to prevent burnout among team members.Recommend that aspiring sales leaders read beyond typical sales books, exploring works that provide broader insights into leadership, strategy, and empathy.Focus on modeling the behaviors and strategies you want to see in your team. Provide constructive feedback aligned with their career aspirations, not just their current roles.Quote of the Show:“Great salespeople don't just want a bigger paycheck for selling more. They want to take on more, they want to do more.” - Ed DillerLinks:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/edwardmdiller/ Website: https://newrelic.com/ Ways to Tune In:Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0Yb1wPzUxyrfR0Dx35ym1A Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/coach2scale-how-modern-leaders-build-a-coaching-culture/id1699901434 Google Podcasts: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy50cmFuc2lzdG9yLmZtL2NvYWNoMnNjYWxlLWhvdy1tb2Rlcm4tbGVhZGVycy1idWlsZC1hLWNvYWNoaW5nLWN1bHR1cmU Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/fd188af6-7c17-4b2e-a0b2-196ecd6fdf77 Podchaser: https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/coach2scale-how-modern-leaders-5419703 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Coach2Scale CoachEm™ is the first Coaching Execution Platform that integrates deep learning technology to proactively analyze patterns, highlight the "why" behind the data with root causes, and identify the actions that will ultimately improve business results going forward.  These practical coaching recommendations for managers will help their teams drive more deals, bigger deals, faster deals and loyal customers. Built with decades of go-to-market experience, world-renowned data scientists and advanced causal AI/ML technology, CoachEm™ leverages your existing tech stack to increase rep productivity, increase retention, and replicate best practices across your team.Learn more at coachem.io

Send us a textEn este episodio de Life on Mars, Àlex entrevista a Diego Mariño, fundador de Ducksboard, la startup que vendió a New Relic en 2014. A través de una conversación sincera y sin filtros, Diego nos lleva más allá del éxito inicial de la venta para desvelar el lado menos conocido del proceso post-acquisition. Desde el periodo de earn-out y los retos de permanecer en una compañía adquirida, hasta los cambios de responsabilidad, el burnout y el dilema de encontrar una nueva motivación después de haber alcanzado una meta importante.Diego comparte con Àlex cómo vivió la transición tras la venta de su empresa, las lecciones que aprendió a posteriori y cómo, con el tiempo, encontró un balance entre sus responsabilidades y su bienestar personal. También exploran la importancia de estar preparado para el “tour of duty” que suele acompañar una adquisición, y Diego nos ofrece consejos clave para otros emprendedores sobre cláusulas y condiciones que todos deberían considerar antes de vender.Este episodio es una inmersión en el lado más humano del M&A, ideal para quienes están pensando en vender su empresa, quienes están en pleno proceso, o quienes simplemente quieren conocer los desafíos que vienen después del éxito.Y, si vais a vender la empresa, pues hablad con ellos primero, que algo parece que saben. Por lo menos, os invitarán a comer pulpo

Andrew Tunall is a product engineering leader focused on pushing the boundaries of reliability with a current focus on mobile observability. Using his experience from AWS and New Relic, he's vocal about the need for a more user-focused observability, especially in mobile, where traditional practices fall short. * Career Journey and Current Role: Andrew Tunall, now at Embrace, a mobile observability startup in Portland, Oregon, started his journey at AWS before moving to New Relic. He shifted to a smaller, Series B company to learn beyond what corporate America offered.* Specialization in Mobile Observability: At Embrace, Andrew and his colleagues build tools for consumer mobile apps, helping engineers, SREs, and DevOps teams integrate observability directly into their workflows.* Gap in Mobile Observability: Observability for mobile apps is still developing, with early tools like Crashlytics only covering basic crash reporting. Andrew highlights that more nuanced data on app performance, crucial to user experience, is often missed.* Motivation for User-Centric Tools: Leaving “big observability” to focus on mobile, Andrew prioritizes tools that directly enhance user experience rather than backend metrics, aiming to be closer to end-users.* Mobile's Role as a Brand Touchpoint: He emphasizes that for many brands, the primary consumer interaction happens on mobile. Observability needs to account for this by focusing on user experience in the app, not just backend performance.* Challenges in Measuring Mobile Reliability: Traditional observability emphasizes backend uptime, but Andrew sees a gap in capturing issues that affect user experience on mobile, underscoring the need for end-to-end observability.* Observability Over-Focused on Backend Systems: Andrew points out that “big observability” has largely catered to backend engineers due to the immense complexity of backend systems with microservices and Kubernetes. Despite mobile being a primary interface for apps like Facebook and Instagram, observability tools for mobile lag behind backend-focused solutions.* Lack of Mobile Engineering Leadership in Observability: Reflecting on a former Meta product manager's observations, Andrew highlights the lack of VPs from mobile backgrounds, which has left a gap in observability practices for mobile-specific challenges. This gap stems partly from frontend engineers often seeing themselves as creators rather than operators, unlike backend teams.* OpenTelemetry's Limitations in Mobile: While OpenTelemetry provides basic instrumentation, it falls short in mobile due to limited SDK support for languages like Kotlin and frameworks like Unity, React Native, and Flutter. Andrew emphasizes the challenges of adapting OpenTelemetry to mobile, where app-specific factors like memory consumption don't align with traditional time-based observability.* SREs as Connective Tissue: Andrew views Site Reliability Engineers (SREs) as essential in bridging backend observability practices with frontend user experience needs. Whether through service level objectives (SLOs) or similar metrics, SREs help ensure that backend metrics translate into positive end-user experiences—a critical factor in retaining app users.* Amazon's Operational Readiness Review: Drawing from his experience at AWS, Andrew values Amazon's practice of operational readiness reviews before launching new services. These reviews encourage teams to anticipate possible failures or user experience issues, weighing risks carefully to maintain reliability while allowing innovation.* Shifting Focus to “Answerability” in Observability: For Andrew, the goal of observability should evolve toward “answerability,” where systems provide engineers with actionable answers rather than mere data. He envisions a future where automation or AI could handle repetitive tasks, allowing engineers to focus on enhancing user experiences instead of troubleshooting. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit read.srepath.com

Today's episode explores observability within the software delivery lifecycle, particularly test-related events. Joining us is Rodrigo Martin, a principal software engineer and test architect at New Relic with an impressive two decades of experience in software testing. Rodrigo sheds light on the often overlooked aspects of observability in testing environments, discussing how tracking test-related events can significantly enhance debugging capabilities, performance monitoring, and overall test suite reliability. He shares actionable insights on getting started with event tracking, the key metrics you need to focus on, and the common challenges you might face. Whether you're dealing with flaky tests, trying to improve pipeline performance, or simply wanting to understand your testing processes' inner workings better, Rodrigo's expert advice has got you covered. Don't miss this episode if you want to take your DevOps observability efforts to the next level. Grab your headphones and join us on this journey to make your CI/CD pipelines more efficient and your developer experience richer. Listen up!

Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Stitcher | Overcast Support the Show. Get the AudioBook! AudioBook: Audible| Kobo| Authors Direct | Google Play | Apple Introduction In the world of startups, founders are often laser-focused on product development, leaving crucial back-office tasks like accounting as an afterthought. Yet, ignoring this foundational piece of the puzzle can lead to disastrous consequences when it's time to scale or raise funding. Without proper systems in place, businesses risk losing investor trust, facing compliance issues, or simply running into operational chaos. But how can entrepreneurs find a balance between driving their product forward and keeping their financial house in order? In this episode of The Entrepreneur Ethos, Jarie Bolander chats with the co-founders of KBA Partners—Kasia Rzepnikowska, Angel Zhao, and Barbara Legnitto Hansson—who turned their decades of experience in high-growth companies like New Relic into a boutique firm that helps startups navigate the complex world of finance and accounting. Drawing on their unique backgrounds in taking companies from fledgling startups to billion-dollar valuations, they offer actionable advice on building a financial infrastructure that's not just about staying compliant but enabling growth. This conversation dives deep into how early-stage companies can avoid the common pitfalls of financial mismanagement, why accounting should be seen as an asset rather than a burden, and how having the right systems in place early can provide the peace of mind needed to focus on what really matters—growing your business. From setting up basic bookkeeping to managing the complexities of scaling, these experts share practical, real-world insights that every entrepreneur needs to hear. If you're a founder who wants to sleep better at night knowing your financials are rock solid or an entrepreneur navigating the tricky waters of startup growth, you won't want to miss this episode. Hit play and learn how to lay the groundwork for long-term success with guidance from industry veterans who've been there and done it. Tune in now and start securing your startup's future! Links Barbara Legnitto Hansson LinkedIn Angel Zhao LinkedIn Kasia Rzepnikowska on LinkedIn Keep In Touch Book or Blog or Twitter or LinkedIn or Get Story-Driven Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It turns out, you don't need to step outside to observe the clouds. On this episode, we're joined by Chronosphere Field CTO Ian Smith. He and Corey delve into the innovative solutions Chronosphere offers, share insights from Ian's experience in the industry, and discuss the future of cloud-native technologies. Whether you're a seasoned cloud professional or new to the field, this conversation with Ian Smith is packed with valuable perspectives and actionable takeaways.Show Highlights:(0:00) Intro(0:42) Chronosphere sponsor read(1:53) The role of Chief of Staff at Chronosphere(2:45) Getting recognized in the Gartner Magic Quadrant(4:42) Talking about the buying process(8:26) The importance of observability(10:18) Guiding customers as a vendor(12:19)  Chronosphere sponsor read(12:46) What should you do as an observability buyer(16:01) Helping orgs understand observability(19:56) Avoiding toxicly positive endorsements(24:15) Being transparent as a vendor(27:43) The myth of "winner take all"(30:02) Short term fixes vs. long term solutions(33:54) Where you can find more from Ian and ChronosphereAbout Ian SmithIan Smith is Field CTO at Chronosphere where he works across sales, marketing, engineering and product to deliver better insights and outcomes to observability teams supporting high-scale cloud-native environments. Previously, he worked with observability teams across the software industry in pre-sales roles at New Relic, Wavefront, PagerDuty and Lightstep.LinksChronosphere: https://chronosphere.io/?utm_source=duckbill-group&utm_medium=podcastIan's Twitter: https://x.com/datasmithingIan's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ismith314159/SponsorChronosphere: https://chronosphere.io/?utm_source=duckbill-group&utm_medium=podcast

(0:00) Intro.(1:03) About the podcast sponsor: The American College of Governance Counsel.(1:50) Start of interview. *Reference to E137 with Coco Brown (CEO of Athena Alliance).(2:47) Yvonne's origin story.(5:49) Her executive career starting with Accenture, and later with VMware, New Relic, and CEO of Airware and Puppet.(9:03) On her board journey. Distinctions between private and public company service. Plus non-profits.(17:43) Explaining board composition and dynamics in VC-backed companies.(23:23) Explaining board composition and dynamics in PE-backed companies. "It's much more straightforward, structured, and contained."(27:39) On the 'Stay Private vs Go Public' debate and other considerations on private markets.(34:29) On the AI boom and how to think about it from a board's perspective: "how do you experiment and lean in without committing?"(39:06) On the increasing relevance of cybersecurity in the age of digitization. "Cyber attacks are like earthquakes in California. They're going to happen."(42:33) On geopolitics and the boardroom. "How you think about it really depends on what type of company you're in, how big it is, and what you're trying to achieve."(45:40) How to think about the ESG landscape.(49:56) Podcasts that she regularly listens to: Boardroom Governance with Evan Epstein :)The Economist PodcastsGrit Podcast with Joubin MirzadeganAcquired Podcast(52:03) Her mentors and sponsors. Carl Eschenbach John Chambers(54:44) Quotes that she thinks of often or lives her life by: "Be the change you want to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi,(55:15) An unusual habit or absurd thing that she loves: misting plants.(56:35) The living person she most admires: MacKenzie Scott.Yvonne Wassenaar is a seasoned Silicon Valley C-level executive and board member with experience across public, private equity-backed, and venture-backed companies. She currently serves on the boards of Forrester, Rubrik, Arista Networks, JFrog, Alation, Braze, and InfoBlox. She also serves on the boards of Harvey Mudd College and UCLA Anderson's Easton Technology Management Center. You can follow Evan on social media at:Twitter: @evanepsteinLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/ Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/__You can join as a Patron of the Boardroom Governance Podcast at:Patreon: patreon.com/BoardroomGovernancePod__Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License

What are effective remote communication strategies for product teams? In this episode of Product Talk hosted by Workleap Director of Product Barbara Bermes, New Relic Fmr VP of Engineering Jade Rubick speaks on effective strategies for managing communication in remote and asynchronous work environments. He covers the challenges of async communication, such as over-specification vs. under-specification, and strategies to address them. Jade also shares best practices for using tools like Slack to enhance productivity and collaboration, including using threaded replies, managing notifications, and replying with documentation. Tune in for insights on fostering a healthy remote communication culture.

New Relic's all-in-one observability platform makes it simple to optimize your performance by giving you a single source of truth to analyze your apps, infrastructure, and all of your Azure services. Glenn Thomas from New Relic joins Scott Hanselman to talk about Azure's Native New Relic Service in Azure. Glenn demos how easy it is to get started with New Relic and manage Azure resources directly in the Azure portal. In addition, he provides an overview of how New Relic can help quickly identify and troubleshoot performance issues, including a look at Ask AI in New Relic Observability. Chapters 00:00 - Introduction 00:53 - Getting started from Azure Marketplace 02:27 - Exploring a new service 03:10 - Installing New Relic extension in a VM 04:05 - Accessing your New Relic service with SSO 04:47 - Troubleshooting scenario walkthrough with AI analysis 11:23 - Ask AI in New Relic 14:00 - Wrap-up Recommended resources New Relic's Azure Native Solution on the Azure Marketplace Azure Native New Relic Service Introduction New Relic AI New Relic Errors Inbox New Relic Distributed Tracing Azure Native New Relic Service: Full stack observability in minutes Create a Pay-as-You-Go account (Azure) Create a free account (Azure) Connect Scott Hanselman | Twitter/X: @SHanselman Azure Friday | Twitter/X: @AzureFriday New Relic | Twitter/X: @NewRelic Azure Support | Twitter/X: @AzureSupport

New Relic's all-in-one observability platform makes it simple to optimize your performance by giving you a single source of truth to analyze your apps, infrastructure, and all of your Azure services. Glenn Thomas from New Relic joins Scott Hanselman to talk about Azure's Native New Relic Service in Azure. Glenn demos how easy it is to get started with New Relic and manage Azure resources directly in the Azure portal. In addition, he provides an overview of how New Relic can help quickly identify and troubleshoot performance issues, including a look at Ask AI in New Relic Observability. Chapters 00:00 - Introduction 00:53 - Getting started from Azure Marketplace 02:27 - Exploring a new service 03:10 - Installing New Relic extension in a VM 04:05 - Accessing your New Relic service with SSO 04:47 - Troubleshooting scenario walkthrough with AI analysis 11:23 - Ask AI in New Relic 14:00 - Wrap-up Recommended resources New Relic's Azure Native Solution on the Azure Marketplace Azure Native New Relic Service Introduction New Relic AI New Relic Errors Inbox New Relic Distributed Tracing Azure Native New Relic Service: Full stack observability in minutes Create a Pay-as-You-Go account (Azure) Create a free account (Azure) Connect Scott Hanselman | Twitter/X: @SHanselman Azure Friday | Twitter/X: @AzureFriday New Relic | Twitter/X: @NewRelic Azure Support | Twitter/X: @AzureSupport

In this episode of the SaaS Sessions podcast, we hosted Andy Ramirez, the Senior Vice President of Marketing at Docker to explore the complexities of Account-Based Marketing (ABM) within a Product-Led Growth (PLG) context.Andy shares his journey from a 'recovering engineer' to a seasoned marketing leader at top companies like AWS, Amazon Prime, Smartsheet, and New Relic.We discussed the synergies between PLG and ABM, strategies for using first-party and third-party data to target accounts efficiently, and practical advice on tailoring messaging for different buyer personas and stages of the customer journey.Andy also emphasizes measuring success without overcomplicating analytics and leveraging qualitative feedback from sales teams to refine marketing campaigns. This episode offers valuable insights for companies looking to integrate ABM within their PLG models.Connect with Andy on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/andyramirez/00:00 Intro00:30 Andy's Career Journey and Passion for Technology02:42 Docker and Kubernetes: A Historical Insight04:56 Navigating Enterprise ABM with PLG11:00 Leveraging Data for ABM Success17:07 Tailoring Content for ABM Campaigns29:57 Metrics and Feedback Loops in ABM36:10 Lightning Round: Personal Insights39:15 Conclusion and Final ThoughtsAll this and more in this episode with Andy.Visit our website - https://saassessions.com/Connect with me on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/sunilneurgaonkar/

Sarah Friar, former CEO of Nextdoor, soon to be the CFO of OpenAI, led the company to nearly triple its reach to over 92M Neighbors in 335,000 neighborhoods worldwide. Previously, as CFO at Square, she oversaw its IPO and $30 billion market cap increase. Her prior experience spans Goldman Sachs, McKinsey, and Salesforce. Currently a Board Member of Walmart and Consensys, she's also known for her Board contributions to Slack Technologies and New Relic. A Fellow of the Aspen Institute, and on the Advisory Boards of Operation HOPE, the Blavatnik School of Government at Oxford and Co-Chair of the Stanford Digital Economy Lab. Sarah is committed to mentorship, founding LadiesWhoLaunch.org. Raised in Northern Ireland, she holds degrees from Oxford and Stanford, earning an OBE from Queen Elizabeth II for entrepreneurship.

Riya Shanmugan is the CEO at Hawcx. She is a distinguished technology executive who has held high-level positions at New Relic, Adobe, Google Cloud, IBM, and AMD. Rita is also featured on our list of cybersecurity pundits. In this episode, she joins host Charlie Osborne to discuss passwords, including why they stink, secure login solutions for consumers, and more. To learn more about Hawcx, visit https://hawcx.com.

Tanguy Crusson is the product lead for Jira Product Discovery at Atlassian. In his more than 10 years at the company, he has been instrumental in taking several new products from zero to one, including HipChat, Statuspage, and Jira Product Discovery. In this episode, we dive deep into the struggles of innovating and building new products inside a large company. Tanguy shares candid stories about what worked, what didn't, and his many hard-won lessons learned about how to successfully build 0 to 1. We cover:• Why large companies with so many advantages still fail at creating new products• Lessons learned from building HipChat• How to avoid common pitfalls like competitive myopia and premature scaling• Lessons learned from the acquisition and integration of Statuspage• Insights from the success of Jira Product Discovery• Tactics for protecting your “ugly babies”• The power of “lighthouse users”• The importance of having a “why now”• Much more—Brought to you by:• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security• WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs• Coda—The all-in-one collaborative workspace—Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-0-to-1-inside-atlassian-tanguy-crusson—Where to find Tanguy Crusson:• X: https://x.com/tanguycrusson• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tanguy-crusson-99832a—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Tanguy's background(02:30) Tanguy's journey at Atlassian(07:03) The challenges of innovating in large companies(10:42) Atlassian's high bar for excellence (12:58) The HipChat story: successes, failures, and lessons learned(20:47) Lessons learned from building HipChat(33:49) Statuspage: a journey of perseverance(39:48) Acquisition challenges and lessons(47:22) Strategic decisions: build, buy, or partner?(48:17) Learning to articulate "why now"(54:08) A quick summary of lessons in this episode(55:40) The success and pain of launching Jira Product Discovery (58:10) Incubating new products: the Point A program(01:00:13) Failure is the most likely outcome(01:04:15) Atlassian's four-phase approach to launching new products(01:09:20) Breaking rules without breaking trust(01:16:16) Early success and team autonomy(01:17:22) Innovating without disrupting existing customers(01:23:17) The Lighthouse Users program(01:30:00) Protecting and nurturing new ideas(01:36:14) Balancing innovation with personal well-being(01:38:17) A reminder to look after yourself(01:42:06) Lightning round—Referenced:• Atlassian: https://www.atlassian.com/• HipChat: https://community.atlassian.com/t5/Hipchat/ct-p/hipchat• Stride: https://community.atlassian.com/t5/Stride/ct-p/stride• Statuspage: https://www.atlassian.com/software/statuspage• Opsgenie: https://www.atlassian.com/software/opsgenie• Jira Product Discovery: https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/product-discovery• HipChat billboard: https://x.com/HubSpot/status/654696998126272512• Announcing our new partnership with Slack: https://www.atlassian.com/blog/announcements/new-atlassian-slack-partnership• Slack shows it's worried about Microsoft Teams with a full-page newspaper ad: https://www.theverge.com/2016/11/2/13497766/slack-microsoft-teams-new-york-times-ad• What Is ‘Dogfooding'?: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/14/business/dogfooding.html• Jira: https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira• Confluence: https://www.atlassian.com/software/confluence• PagerDuty: https://www.pagerduty.com/• New Relic: https://newrelic.com/• BigPanda: https://www.bigpanda.io/• Transparent Uptime: http://www.transparentuptime.com/• Vision, conviction, and hype: How to build 0 to 1 inside a company | Mihika Kapoor (Product at Figma): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/vision-conviction-hype-mihika-kapoor• Figma: https://www.figma.com/• Lessons from Atlassian: Launching new products, getting buy-in, and staying ahead of the competition | Megan Cook (head of product, Jira): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/lessons-from-atlassian-launching• Noah Weiss on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/noahw/• Tanguy's LinkedIn post about “lighthouse users”: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/tanguy-crusson-99832a_lighthouse-users-one-of-the-pm-techniques-activity-7176654510801502210-hWNi/• Pixar Chief: Protect Your ‘Ugly Babies' (Your Unsightly Ideas): https://www.forbes.com/sites/andyboynton/2014/03/17/pixar-chief-protect-your-ugly-babies-your-unsightly-ideas/• Atlas: https://www.atlassian.com/software/atlas• Point A: https://www.atlassian.com/point-a• Scott Farquhar on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scottfarquhar• Who: A Method for Hiring: https://www.amazon.com/Who-Method-Hiring-HC-2008/dp/B004C79SRS/• Hakim's Odyssey: Book 1: From Syria to Turkey: https://www.amazon.com/Hakims-Odyssey-Book-Syria-Turkey/dp/1637790007• Living with the Earth, Volume 1: Permaculture, Ecoculture: Inspired by Nature: https://www.amazon.com/Living-Earth-Gardeners-Permaculture-Ecoculture/dp/1856232603/• INRIA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Institute_for_Research_in_Computer_Science_and_Automation• How a Hydrofoil Works: https://web.mit.edu/2.972/www/reports/hydrofoil/hydrofoil.html• What Is Kitefoil or Foilboarding?: https://www.whenitswindy.com/wp/?page_id=534• Freediving: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freediving• Tanguy's freediving stats: https://www.aidainternational.org/Athletes/Profile-00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000a45• Perplexity: https://www.perplexity.com/—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Chris Johnson is Co-founder & Managing Partner of Artisanal Talent Group, a highly specialized boutique executive search firm known for building some of tech's most talented executive teams. Chris leads the Product and Engineering Leaders Practice, and is one of the most highly sought-after search consultants in the field for these critical roles at tier-1, high profile, VC backed and public companies. Over the past few years, Chris has completed Product and Engineering searches for Rippling, Notion, Rubrik, Airtable, ServiceNow, Databricks, Figma, UiPath, Confluent, Mulesoft, Starburst, GitLab, Splunk, Harness, New Relic, Elastic, dbt Labs, MessageBird, Postman, Coalition, Loom, Pendo, Procore, etc. In this episode, Chris shares deep insights on how executive recruiters work and how to work with them. He also shares advice on how to be deliberate and thoughtful about mapping your career journey. Highlights: * Case Study of a CPO Search* How do accomplished executive candidates stand out* Hiring trends - FAANG candidates, Domain relevance* Are you a wartime or peacetime leader* Does a company really need a CPO* How recruiters assess candidates for "fit"* How can candidates craft a strong narrative about themselves* How to balance the use of "I" vs "We" in interviews* How to talk about weak spots on the resume* How to build relationships with exec recruiters* Are you playing Career Chess or Checkers* Diversity, Equity and Inclusion in exec searches* How recruiters think about exceptions to the job spec

Enhancing Everyone's Experience with Exceptional Supportability; with Alexis GrantUnlock the secrets to crafting a B2B SaaS experience that customers love and support teams can rally behind. That's what we're bringing to the table with Alexis Grant. Alexis is a seasoned expert in B2B SaaS support, primarily as a support engineer for developer tools and tech products such as New Relic, HashiCorp, and Zapier, and is currently at Semgrep. She lives in Portland, Oregon with her cat and claims to only truly love two pieces of software: cURL and jq.Together, we go diving headfirst into the concept of “supportability”. We chart the course for designing products that are not just powerful but also a breeze to support. Alexis imparts wisdom on how meticulously engineered reliability, predictability, scalability, and usability form the bedrock of products that practically support themselves. This episode is a treasure trove of insights for anyone keen on elevating their SaaS customer experience to new heights.  Steering the conversation towards the empowerment of support teams, we dissect how vital knowledge sharing and the right tech stack can be in bolstering a team's capabilities. The introduction of a supportability checklist and the role of a 'support champion' come to light, detailing how they prepare new releases to face the frontline, fully equipped. We also stress the magic that happens when teams across the board—from support to product development—align their efforts. By embedding supportability into the DNA of every product cycle, we share how organizations can ensure operational success and deliver an unmatched customer experience. Tune in and transform your tech support experience!Support the show

LLM observability focuses on maximizing the utility of larger language models (LLMs) by monitoring key metrics and signals. Alex Williams, Founder and Publisher for The New Stack, and Janikiram MSV, Principal of Janikiram & Associates and an analyst and writer for The New Stack, discusses the emergence of the LLM stack, which encompasses various components like LLMs, vector databases, embedding models, retrieval systems, read anchor models, and more. The objective of LLM observability is to ensure that users can extract desired outcomes effectively from this complex ecosystem.Similar to infrastructure observability in DevOps and SRE practices, LLM observability aims to provide insights into the LLM stack's performance. This includes monitoring metrics specific to LLMs, such as GPU/CPU usage, storage, model serving, change agents in applications, hallucinations, span traces, relevance, retrieval models, latency, monitoring, and user feedback. MSV emphasizes the importance of monitoring resource usage, model catalog synchronization with external providers like Hugging Face, vector database availability, and the inference engine's functionality.He also mentions peer companies in the LLM observability space like Datadog, New Relic, Signoz, Dynatrace, LangChain (LangSmith), Arize.ai (Phoenix), and Truera, hinting at a deeper exploration in a future episode of The New Stack Makers. Learn more from The New Stack about LLM and observability  Observability in 2024: More OpenTelemetry, Less Confusion How AI Can Supercharge Observability Next-Gen Observability: Monitoring and Analytics in Platform Engineering Join our community of newsletter subscribers to stay on top of the news and at the top of your game.   

“People notice something wrong in their business, the root cause is that something is wrong in their business but they start looking for tech as almost like a distraction…buying Martech is a silver bullet for Martech problems but, not business problems.” Brian Kotlyar is the VP of Marketing and Growth at Hightouch.com (a CDP and data activation platform), where he leads the company's marketing strategy and is responsible for driving growth and customer acquisition. Prior to his role at Hightouch, Brian held the position of SVP of Marketing at New Relic, where he played a pivotal role in leading the company's marketing efforts during a period of rapid growth and a successful IPO. He helped triple the growth rate of the company and oversaw numerous product launches and marketing initiatives. He also served as Head of Marketing at Intercom, where he helped the company build a world-class marketing team. Throughout his career, Brian has worked extensively in building and growing multiple B2B startups successfully. Questions and topics we covered include: Brian's explanation of consumption pricing and how this concept helped him in his marketing career Is a better Martech stack the secret to fixing a company's growth problems? What is a CDP and why should marketers care about them? How does this type of tool affect our work? Traditional vs composable CDPs How to justify the purchase of a CDP? What is a data warehouse and how does it differ from a CDP? Why do most data and marketing teams have bad relationships with each other? How do we make these relationships better? And more! You can learn more about HighTouch at - https://hightouch.com Connect with Brian via LinkedIn at - https://www.linkedin.com/in/briankotlyar/  You can say hello to me on LinkedIn at - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kennysoto/ Past guests of The People of Digital Marketing include April Dunford, Amanda Goetz, Melissa Rosenthal, Bill Macaitis, Miruna Dragomir, Andrew Capland, Erik Newton, Andy Crestodina, Sarah Bedrick, Michael Wieder, Dan McGaw, Kathleen Booth, Foti Panagiotakopoulos, Tommy Walker, Lea Pica, Maya Grossman, Sara Pion, Margaret Kelsey, and more. Music for this podcast comes from www.davidcuttermusic.com

This week, Dave is joined by Brian Kotlyar. Brian leads Marketing and Growth at Hightouch and previously led teams at Sprinklr, Intercom, and New Relic. He shares his perspective onAligning revenue teams toward common goalsThe importance of an effective messaging strategyPrioritizing numerous ideas from CEOsA high-reward compensation approachTimestamps(00:00) - - Performance metrics and career motivation (06:04) - - Understanding customer needs (09:28) - - Personal growth and getting recognition (11:46) - - Aligning goals and compensation (15:28) - - Higher earnings through higher risk (17:11) - - Aligning compensation to reality (20:23) - - The supply chain stages and revenue generation (28:42) - - Product marketing and brand management (30:43) - - Creative messaging (36:46) - - Understanding the managers' mindset in crisis (40:06) - - Challenges of managing a startup (41:59) - - Managing content effectively (45:12) - - Sales enablement (47:37) - - Becoming a valued expert and resource in a business (50:46) - - The unpredictability of creative inspiration Send guest pitches and ideas to hi@exitfive.comJoin the Exit Five Newsletter here: https://www.exitfive.com/newsletterCheck out the Exit Five job board: https://jobs.exitfive.com/Become an Exit Five member: https://community.exitfive.com/checkout/exit-five-membership***This episode of the Exit Five podcast is brought to you by our friends at Knak.  Launching an email or landing page in your marketing automation platform shouldn't feel like assembling an airplane mid flight with no instructions, but too often that's exactly how it feels. No more having to stop midway through your campaign to fix something simple. Knack lets you work with your entire team in real time and stops you from having to fix things mid flight. Check them out at knak.com/exit-five/***Thanks to my friends at hatch.fm for producing this episode and handling all of the Exit Five podcast production.They give you unlimited podcast editing and strategy for your B2B podcast.Get unlimited podcast editing and on-demand strategy for one low monthly cost. Just upload your episode, and they take care of the rest.Visit hatch.fm to learn more

Darin Swanson has been a technical advisor to founders and CEOs for the last 7 years at companies like Pipefy, Outreach, Kite, Edify, and Gatsby. Prior to that he was the VP of Engineering for New Relic and led engineering teams there for 6+ years. In many ways, Darin is a glimpse into the future for a lot of listeners to this show. He is a father of two kids (now adults) and a loving husband to his wife. In our conversation today we discussed: Darin's transition into advisory work after a long, full-time career His childhood growing up in Northern Canada Your spouse as a barometer for your balance and decisions What it's like having adult-aged kids who no longer have to listen to you Watching your adult children make their own decisions How his relationship with work changed at the different stages of his kids' lives The worst piece of parenting advice he's ever received — Where to find Darin Swanson - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/darinswanson/   Where to find Adam Fishman - Newsletter: https://startupdadpod.substack.com/ - Newsletter: https://www.fishmanafnewsletter.com - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamjfishman/ - Twitter / X: https://twitter.com/fishmanaf - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/startupdadpod/ — In this episode, we cover: [1:26] Welcome to the show [2:06] Darin's professional background [3:28] Was it hard to figure out next steps after New Relic [4:57] Darin's Childhood [5:53] What did his parents do for work? [7:44] The makeup of his family [9:36] Marriage [14:09] Their decision to have kids [15:21] Your spouse as barometer for balance and decisions [19:57] Having adult kids who don't have to listen to you [22:44] Biggest mistake you've made as a parent [24:32] Being infallible [27:33] Watching adult kids make their own decisions [31:40] Earliest memories of being a dad [34:20] Most surprising thing about being a dad [35:41] Frameworks for parenthood [38:29] Where he and his spouse don't see eye to eye [41:34] Biggest mistake as a dad? [44:21] His relationship with work at different stages of his kids' lives [49:17] Worst parenting advice ever received? [50:34] Where you can follow along with Darin's journey [52:48] Rapid fire — Show references: New Relic - https://newrelic.com/ IBM - https://www.ibm.com/ Nintendo - https://www.nintendo.com/ Blue's Clues - https://www.nickjr.com/shows/blues-clues-and-you — For sponsorship inquiries email podcast@fishmana.com. Production support for Startup Dad is provided by Tommy Harron at http://www.armaziproductions.com/  

Darin Swanson has been a technical advisor to founders and CEOs for the last 7 years at companies like Pipefy, Outreach, Kite, Edify, and Gatsby. Prior to that he was the VP of Engineering for New Relic and led engineering teams there for 6+ years. In many ways, Darin is a glimpse into the future for a lot of listeners to this show. He is a father of two kids (now adults) and a loving husband to his wife. In our conversation today we discussed:* Darin's transition into advisory work after a long, full-time career* His childhood growing up in Northern Canada* Your spouse as a barometer for your balance and decisions* What it's like having adult-aged kids who no longer have to listen to you* Watching your adult children make their own decisions* How his relationship with work changed at the different stages of his kids' lives* The worst piece of parenting advice he's ever receivedListen or watch Startup Dad on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, and Overcast.—Where to find Darin Swanson- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/darinswanson/Where to find Adam Fishman- Newsletter: startupdadpod.substack.com- Newsletter: www.FishmanAFNewsletter.com- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamjfishman/- Twitter / X: https://twitter.com/fishmanaf- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/startupdadpod/—In this episode, we cover:[1:26] Welcome to the show[2:06] Darin's professional background[3:28] Was it hard to figure out next steps after New Relic[4:57] Darin's Childhood[5:53] What did his parents do for work?[7:44] The makeup of his family[9:36] Marriage[14:09] Their decision to have kids[15:21] Your spouse as barometer for balance and decisions[19:57] Having adult kids who don't have to listen to you[22:44] Biggest mistake you've made as a parent[24:32] Being infallible[27:33] Watching adult kids make their own decisions[31:40] Earliest memories of being a dad[34:20] Most surprising thing about being a dad[35:41] Frameworks for parenthood[38:29] Where he and his spouse don't see eye to eye[41:34] Biggest mistake as a dad?[44:21] His relationship with work at different stages of his kids' lives[49:17] Worst parenting advice ever received?[50:34] Where you can follow along with Darin's journey[52:48] Rapid fire—Show references:New Relic - https://newrelic.com/IBM - https://www.ibm.com/Nintendo - https://www.nintendo.com/Blue's Clues - https://www.nickjr.com/shows/blues-clues-and-you—For sponsorship inquiries email podcast@fishmana.com.Editing for Startup Dad provided by Tommy Harron. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit startupdadpod.substack.com

Andy Ramirez is a "Moneyball Marketing" specialist and seasoned marketing leader who's built high-functioning teams that obsess over data and use it to quickly maximize ROI. He's led marketing teams at AWS, Amazon Prime, Smartsheet, New Relic, and now at Docker.Learn more about Docker:https://www.docker.com/Connect with Andy Ramirez on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andyramirez/Connect with the host, Connor Dube, on LinkedIn`: https://www.linkedin.com/in/socialsellingexpert/Brought to you by the B2B content marketing experts at www.ProvenContent.comGet access to free content marketing courses, no email opt in required, at www.ProvenContent.com/Free

https://www.hetz.vc/hetz-data-program-sparql השבוע היה לי הכבוד לארח את גיא פיגל מ-Hetz Ventures (חץ ונצ'רס). עם וותק של מעל 25 שנה בתחומי הפיתוח, גיא נחשב אחד המומחים הבכירים בתעשיית התוכנה בישראל, והוביל בניית פתרונות תוכנה גלובליים תוך דגש על Server-side, ML ו – DevOps. פיגל משמש כיום כסגן נשיא בכיר ו -GM ל – Platform Engineering & AI בתאגיד הענק האמריקאי New Relic הפועל בתחום ניטור התוכנה. קודם לכן, שימש כמייסד שותף וה-CTO של SignifAI, שפיתחה מנוע מבוסס AI ו – ML להתאמה, איחוד וגילוי הקשרים למערכות מבוססות DevOps ונרכשה על ידי New Relic בשנת 2019. חץ ונצ'רס היא חברת הון סיכון ישראלית מובילה בשלבי Seed הנוקטת בגישה תימטית להשקעות בשלבים מוקדמים. עם ניהול של כמעט 300 מיליון דולר, הקרן משקיעה ותומכת בסטארט-אפים בתחומי DevOps, DevTools וקוד פתוח, AI/Data, אבטחת סייבר ופינטק.  הצוות של חץ מוביל עם חשיבה יזמית, מתוך שיתוף פעולה בין משקיעים ואנשי מקצוע בתעשייה ועם מחויבות משותפת להשקיע כשותף גמיש, מעשי ומונע טכנולוגית. עם רשת גלובלית של משקיעים משותפים מהשורה הראשונה, מנהלי חברות Fortune 500, גורמים מובילים בתחום הטכנולוגיה, יוצאי יחידות צבאיות מובחרות ועוד, יש ל-חץ את כל הכלים הדרושים כדי לתמוך בחברות שבונות את דרכן משלב ה-Seed ואילך.   (*) ללינקדאין שלי: https://www.linkedin.com/in/guykatsovich/ (*) לאינסטגרם שלי: https://www.instagram.com/guykatsovich/ (*) עקבו אחרינו ב"עוד פודקאסט לסטארטאפים" וקבלו פרק מדי שבוע: ספוטיפיי:https://open.spotify.com/show/0dTqS27ynvNmMnA5x4ObKQ אפל פודקאסט:https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/id1252035397 גוגל פודקאסט:https://bit.ly/3rTldwq עוד פודקאסט - האתר שלנו:https://omny.fm/shows/odpodcast ה-RSS פיד שלנו:https://www.omnycontent.com/.../f059ccb3-e0c5.../podcast.rssSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Josh Prismon is a veteran software architect, having worked at FICO for 17 years before shifting to Index Exchange in 2022. In this episode, Josh joins the podcast to speak with host Lee Atchison, who also has deep experience in software architecture from his time at Amazon, New Relic, and other companies.   Josh and The post Software Architecture with Josh Prismon appeared first on Software Engineering Daily.

Rachel Dines, Head of Product and Technical Marketing at Chronosphere, joins Corey on Screaming in the Cloud to discuss why creating a cloud-native observability strategy is so critical, and the challenges that come with both defining and accomplishing that strategy to fit your current and future observability needs. Rachel explains how Chronosphere is taking an open-source approach to observability, and why it's more important than ever to acknowledge that the stakes and costs are much higher when it comes to observability in the cloud. About RachelRachel leads product and technical marketing for Chronosphere. Previously, Rachel wore lots of marketing hats at CloudHealth (acquired by VMware), and before that, she led product marketing for cloud-integrated storage at NetApp. She also spent many years as an analyst at Forrester Research. Outside of work, Rachel tries to keep up with her young son and hyper-active dog, and when she has time, enjoys crafting and eating out at local restaurants in Boston where she's based.Links Referenced: Chronosphere: https://chronosphere.io/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rdines/ TranscriptAnnouncer: Hello, and welcome to Screaming in the Cloud with your host, Chief Cloud Economist at The Duckbill Group, Corey Quinn. This weekly show features conversations with people doing interesting work in the world of cloud, thoughtful commentary on the state of the technical world, and ridiculous titles for which Corey refuses to apologize. This is Screaming in the Cloud.Corey: Welcome to Screaming in the Cloud. I'm Corey Quinn. Today's featured guest episode is brought to us by our friends at Chronosphere, and they have also brought us Rachel Dines, their Head of Product and Solutions Marketing. Rachel, great to talk to you again.Rachel: Hi, Corey. Yeah, great to talk to you, too.Corey: Watching your trajectory has been really interesting, just because starting off, when we first started, I guess, learning who each other were, you were working at CloudHealth which has since become VMware. And I was trying to figure out, huh, the cloud runs on money. How about that? It feels like it was a thousand years ago, but neither one of us is quite that old.Rachel: It does feel like several lifetimes ago. You were just this snarky guy with a few followers on Twitter, and I was trying to figure out what you were doing mucking around with my customers [laugh]. Then [laugh] we kind of both figured out what we're doing, right?Corey: So, speaking of that iterative process, today, you are at Chronosphere, which is an observability company. We would have called it a monitoring company five years ago, but now that's become an insult after the observability war dust has settled. So, I want to talk to you about something that I've been kicking around for a while because I feel like there's a gap somewhere. Let's say that I build a crappy web app—because all of my web apps inherently are crappy—and it makes money through some mystical form of alchemy. And I have a bunch of users, and I eventually realize, huh, I should probably have a better observability story than waiting for the phone to ring and a customer telling me it's broken.So, I start instrumenting various aspects of it that seem to make sense. Maybe I go too low level, like looking at all the discs on every server to tell me if they're getting full or not, like their ancient servers. Maybe I just have a Pingdom equivalent of is the website up enough to respond to a packet? And as I wind up experiencing different failure modes and getting yelled at by different constituencies—in my own career trajectory, my own boss—you start instrumenting for all those different kinds of breakages, you start aggregating the logs somewhere and the volume gets bigger and bigger with time. But it feels like it's sort of a reactive process as you stumble through that entire environment.And I know it's not just me because I've seen this unfold in similar ways in a bunch of different companies. It feels to me, very strongly, like it is something that happens to you, rather than something you set about from day one with a strategy in mind. What's your take on an effective way to think about strategy when it comes to observability?Rachel: You just nailed it. That's exactly the kind of progression that we so often see. And that's what I really was excited to talk with you about today—Corey: Oh, thank God. I was worried for a minute there that you'd be like, “What the hell are you talking about? Are you just, like, some sort of crap engineer?” And, “Yes, but it's mean of you to say it.” But yeah, what I'm trying to figure out is there some magic that I just was never connecting? Because it always feels like you're in trouble because the site's always broken, and oh, like, if the disk fills up, yeah, oh, now we're going to start monitoring to make sure the disk doesn't fill up. Then you wind up getting barraged with alerts, and no one wins, and it's an uncomfortable period of time.Rachel: Uncomfortable period of time. That is one very polite way to put it. I mean, I will say, it is very rare to find a company that actually sits down and thinks, “This is our observability strategy. This is what we want to get out of observability.” Like, you can think about a strategy and, like, the old school sense, and you know, as an industry analyst, so I'm going to have to go back to, like, my roots at Forrester with thinking about, like, the people, and the process, and the technology.But really what the bigger component here is like, what's the business impact? What do you want to get out of your observability platform? What are you trying to achieve? And a lot of the time, people have thought, “Oh, observability strategy. Great, I'm just going to buy a tool. That's it. Like, that's my strategy.”And I hate to bring it to you, but buying tools is not a strategy. I'm not going to say, like, buy this tool. I'm not even going to say, “Buy Chronosphere.” That's not a strategy. Well, you should buy Chronosphere. But that's not a strategy.Corey: Of course. I'm going to throw the money by the wheelbarrow at various observability vendors, and hope it solves my problem. But if that solved the problem—I've got to be direct—I've never spoken to those customers.Rachel: Exactly. I mean, that's why this space is such a great one to come in and be very disruptive in. And I think, back in the days when we were running in data centers, maybe even before virtual machines, you could probably get away with not having a monitoring strategy—I'm not going to call it observability; it's not we call the back then—you could get away with not having a strategy because what was the worst that was going to happen, right? It wasn't like there was a finite amount that your monitoring bill could be, there was a finite amount that your customer impact could be. Like, you're paying the penny slots, right?We're not on the penny slots anymore. We're in the $50 craps table, and it's Las Vegas, and if you lose the game, you're going to have to run down the street without your shirt. Like, the game and the stakes have changed, and we're still pretending like we're playing penny slots, and we're not anymore.Corey: That's a good way of framing it. I mean, I still remember some of my biggest observability challenges were building highly available rsyslog clusters so that you could bounce a member and not lose any log data because some of that was transactionally important. And we've gone beyond that to a stupendous degree, but it still feels like you don't wind up building this into the application from day one. More's the pity because if you did, and did that intelligently, that opens up a whole world of possibilities. I dream of that changing where one day, whenever you start to build an app, oh, and we just push the button and automatically instrument with OTel, so you instrument the thing once everywhere it makes sense to do it, and then you can do your vendor selection and what you said were decisions later in time. But these days, we're not there.Rachel: Well, I mean, and there's also the question of just the legacy environment and the tech debt. Even if you wanted to, the—actually I was having a beer yesterday with a friend who's a VP of Engineering, and he's got his new environment that they're building with observability instrumented from the start. How beautiful. They've got OTel, they're going to have tracing. And then he's got his legacy environment, which is a hot mess.So, you know, there's always going to be this bridge of the old and the new. But this was where it comes back to no matter where you're at, you can stop and think, like, “What are we doing and why?” What is the cost of this? And not just cost in dollars, which I know you and I could talk about very deeply for a long period of time, but like, the opportunity costs. Developers are working on stuff that they could be working on something that's more valuable.Or like the cost of making people work round the clock, trying to troubleshoot issues when there could be an easier way. So, I think it's like stepping back and thinking about cost in terms of dollar sense, time, opportunity, and then also impact, and starting to make some decisions about what you're going to do in the future that's different. Once again, you might be stuck with some legacy stuff that you can't really change that much, but [laugh] you got to be realistic about where you're at.Corey: I think that that is a… it's a hard lesson to be very direct, in that, companies need to learn it the hard way, for better or worse. Honestly, this is one of the things that I always noticed in startup land, where you had a whole bunch of, frankly, relatively early-career engineers in their early-20s, if not younger. But then the ops person was always significantly older because the thing you actually want to hear from your ops person, regardless of how you slice it, is, “Oh, yeah, I've seen this kind of problem before. Here's how we fixed it.” Or even better, “Here's the thing we're doing, and I know how that's going to become a problem. Let's fix it before it does.” It's the, “What are you buying by bringing that person in?” “Experience, mostly.”Rachel: Yeah, that's an interesting point you make, and it kind of leads me down this little bit of a side note, but a really interesting antipattern that I've been seeing in a lot of companies is that more seasoned ops person, they're the one who everyone calls when something goes wrong. Like, they're the one who, like, “Oh, my God, I don't know how to fix it. This is a big hairy problem,” I call that one ops person, or I call that very experienced person. That experience person then becomes this huge bottleneck into solving problems that people don't really—they might even be the only one who knows how to use the observability tool. So, if we can't find a way to democratize our observability tooling a little bit more so, like, just day-to-day engineers, like, more junior engineers, newer ones, people who are still ramping, can actually use the tool and be successful, we're going to have a big problem when these ops people walk out the door, maybe they retire, maybe they just get sick of it. We have these massive bottlenecks in organizations, whether it's ops or DevOps or whatever, that I see often exacerbated by observability tools. Just a side note.Corey: Yeah. On some level, it feels like a lot of these things can be fixed with tooling. And I'm not going to say that tools aren't important. You ever tried to implement observability by hand? It doesn't work. There have to be computers somewhere in the loop, if nothing else.And then it just seems to devolve into a giant swamp of different companies, doing different things, taking different approaches. And, on some level, whenever you read the marketing or hear the stories any of these companies tell you also to normalize it from translating from whatever marketing language they've got into something that comports with the reality of your own environment and seeing if they align. And that feels like it is so much easier said than done.Rachel: This is a noisy space, that is for sure. And you know, I think we could go out to ten people right now and ask those ten people to define observability, and we would come back with ten different definitions. And then if you throw a marketing person in the mix, right—guilty as charged, and I know you're a marketing person, too, Corey, so you got to take some of the blame—it gets mucky, right? But like I said a minute ago, the answer is not tools. Tools can be part of the strategy, but if you're just thinking, “I'm going to buy a tool and that's going to solve my problem,” you're going to end up like this company I was talking to recently that has 25 different observability tools.And not only do they have 25 different observability tools, what's worse is they have 25 different definitions for their SLOs and 25 different names for the same metric. And to be honest, it's just a mess. I'm not saying, like, go be Draconian and, you know, tell all the engineers, like, “You can only use this tool [unintelligible 00:10:34] use that tool,” you got to figure out this kind of balance of, like, hands-on, hands-off, you know? How much do you centralize, how much do you push and standardize? Otherwise, you end up with just a huge mess.Corey: On some level, it feels like it was easier back in the days of building it yourself with Nagios because there's only one answer, and it sucks, unless you want to start going down the world of HP OpenView. Which step one: hire a 50-person team to manage OpenView. Okay, that's not going to solve my problem either. So, let's get a little more specific. How does Chronosphere approach this?Because historically, when I've spoken to folks at Chronosphere, there isn't that much of a day one story, in that, “I'm going to build a crappy web app. Let's instrument it for Chronosphere.” There's a certain, “You must be at least this tall to ride,” implicit expectation built into the product just based upon its origins. And I'm not saying that doesn't make sense, but it also means there's really no such thing as a greenfield build out for you either.Rachel: Well, yes and no. I mean, I think there's no green fields out there because everyone's doing something for observability, or monitoring, or whatever you want to call it, right? Whether they've got Nagios, whether they've got the Dog, whether they've got something else in there, they have some way of introspecting their systems, right? So, one of the things that Chronosphere is built on, that I actually think this is part of something—a way you might think about building out an observability strategy as well, is this concept of control and open-source compatibility. So, we only can collect data via open-source standards. You have to send this data via Prometheus, via Open Telemetry, it could be older standards, like, you know, statsd, Graphite, but we don't have any proprietary instrumentation.And if I was making a recommendation to somebody building out their observability strategy right now, I would say open, open, open, all day long because that gives you a huge amount of flexibility in the future. Because guess what? You know, you might put together an observability strategy that seems like it makes sense for right now—actually, I was talking to a B2B SaaS company that told me that they made a choice a couple of years ago on an observability tool. It seemed like the right choice at the time. They were growing so fast, they very quickly realized it was a terrible choice.But now, it's going to be really hard for them to migrate because it's all based on proprietary standards. Now, of course, a few years ago, they didn't have the luxury of Open Telemetry and all of these, but now that we have this, we can use these to kind of future-proof our mistakes. So, that's one big area that, once again, both my recommendation and happens to be our approach at Chronosphere.Corey: I think that that's a fair way of viewing it. It's a constant challenge, too, just because increasingly—you mentioned the Dog earlier, for example—I will say that for years, I have been asked whether or not at The Duckbill Group, we look at Azure bills or GCP bills. Nope, we are pure AWS. Recently, we started to hear that same inquiry specifically around Datadog, to the point where it has become a board-level concern at very large companies. And that is a challenge, on some level.I don't deviate from my typical path of I fix AWS bills, and that's enough impossible problems for one lifetime, but there is a strong sense of you want to record as much as possible for a variety of excellent reasons, but there's an implicit cost to doing that, and in many cases, the cost of observability becomes a massive contributor to the overall cost. Netflix has said in talks before that they're effectively an observability company that also happens to stream movies, just because it takes so much effort, engineering, and raw computing resources in order to get that data do something actionable with it. It's a hard problem.Rachel: It's a huge problem, and it's a big part of why I work at Chronosphere, to be honest. Because when I was—you know, towards the tail end at my previous company in cloud cost management, I had a lot of customers coming to me saying, “Hey, when are you going to tackle our Dog or our New Relic or whatever?” Similar to the experience you're having now, Corey, this was happening to me three, four years ago. And I noticed that there is definitely a correlation between people who are having these really big challenges with their observability bills and people that were adopting, like Kubernetes, and microservices and cloud-native. And it was around that time that I met the Chronosphere team, which is exactly what we do, right? We focus on observability for these cloud-native environments where observability data just goes, like, wild.We see 10X 20X as much observability data and that's what's driving up these costs. And yeah, it is becoming a board-level concern. I mean, and coming back to the concept of strategy, like if observability is the second or third most expensive item in your engineering bill—like, obviously, cloud infrastructure, number one—number two and number three is probably observability. How can you not have a strategy for that? How can this be something the board asks you about, and you're like, “What are we trying to get out of this? What's our purpose?” “Uhhhh… troubleshooting?”Corey: Right because it turns into business metrics as well. It's not just about is the site up or not. There's a—like, one of the things that always drove me nuts not just in the observability space, but even in cloud costing is where, okay, your costs have gone up this week so you get a frowny face, or it's in red, like traffic light coloring. Cool, but for a lot of architectures and a lot of customers, that's because you're doing a lot more volume. That translates directly into increased revenues, increased things you care about. You don't have the position or the context to say, “That's good,” or, “That's bad.” It simply is. And you can start deriving business insight from that. And I think that is the real observability story that I think has largely gone untold at tech conferences, at least.Rachel: It's so right. I mean, spending more on something is not inherently bad if you're getting more value out of it. And it definitely a challenge on the cloud cost management side. “My costs are going up, but my revenue is going up a lot faster, so I'm okay.” And I think some of the plays, like you know, we put observability in this box of, like, it's for low-level troubleshooting, but really, if you step back and think about it, there's a lot of larger, bigger picture initiatives that observability can contribute to in an org, like digital transformation. I know that's a buzzword, but, like that is a legit thing that a lot of CTOs are out there thinking about. Like, how do we, you know, get out of the tech debt world, and how do we get into cloud-native?Maybe it's developer efficiency. God, there's a lot of people talking about developer efficiency. Last week at KubeCon, that was one of the big, big topics. I mean, and yeah, what [laugh] what about cost savings? To me, we've put observability in a smaller box, and it needs to bust out.And I see this also in our customer base, you know? Customers like DoorDash use observability, not just to look at their infrastructure and their applications, but also look at their business. At any given minute, they know how many Dashers are on the road, how many orders are being placed, cut by geos, down to the—actually down to the second, and they can use that to make decisions.Corey: This is one of those things that I always found a little strange coming from the world of running systems in large [unintelligible 00:17:28] environments to fixing AWS bills. There's nothing that even resembles a fast, reactive response in the world of AWS billing. You wind up with a runaway bill, they're going to resolve that over a period of weeks, on Seattle business hours. If you wind up spinning something up that creates a whole bunch of very expensive drivers behind your bill, it's going to take three days, in most cases, before that starts showing up anywhere that you can reasonably expect to get at it. The idea of near real time is a lie unless you want to start instrumenting everything that you're doing to trap the calls and then run cost extrapolation from there. That's hard to do.Observability is a very different story, where latencies start to matter, where being able to get leading indicators of certain events—be a technical or business—start to be very important. But it seems like it's so hard to wind up getting there from where most people are. Because I know we like to talk dismissively about the past, but let's face it, conference-ware is the stuff we're the proudest of. The reality is the burning dumpster of regret in our data centers that still also drives giant piles of revenue, so you can't turn it off, nor would you want to, but you feel bad about it as a result. It just feels like it's such a big leap.Rachel: It is a big leap. And I think the very first step I would say is trying to get to this point of clarity and being honest with yourself about where you're at and where you want to be. And sometimes not making a choice is a choice, right, as well. So, sticking with the status quo is making a choice. And so, like, as we get into things like the holiday season right now, and I know there's going to be people that are on-call 24/7 during the holidays, potentially, to keep something that's just duct-taped together barely up and running, I'm making a choice; you're make a choice to do that. So, I think that's like the first step is the kind of… at least acknowledging where you're at, where you want to be, and if you're not going to make a change, just understanding the cost and being realistic about it.Corey: Yeah, being realistic, I think, is one of the hardest challenges because it's easy to wind up going for the aspirational story of, “In the future when everything's great.” Like, “Okay, cool. I appreciate the need to plant that flag on the hill somewhere. What's the next step? What can we get done by the end of this week that materially improves us from where we started the week?” And I think that with the aspirational conference-ware stories, it's hard to break that down into things that are actionable, that don't feel like they're going to be an interminable slog across your entire existing environment.Rachel: No, I get it. And for things like, you know, instrumenting and adding tracing and adding OTEL, a lot of the time, the return that you get on that investment is… it's not quite like, “I put a dollar in, I get a dollar out,” I mean, something like tracing, you can't get to 60% instrumentation and get 60% of the value. You need to be able to get to, like, 80, 90%, and then you'll get a huge amount of value. So, it's sort of like you're trudging up this hill, you're charging up this hill, and then finally you get to the plateau, and it's beautiful. But that hill is steep, and it's long, and it's not pretty. And I don't know what to say other than there's a plateau near the top. And those companies that do this well really get a ton of value out of it. And that's the dream, that we want to help customers get up that hill. But yeah, I'm not going to lie, the hill can be steep.Corey: One thing that I find interesting is there's almost a bimodal distribution in companies that I talk to. On the one side, you have companies like, I don't know, a Chronosphere is a good example of this. Presumably you have a cloud bill somewhere and the majority of your cloud spend will be on what amounts to a single application, probably in your case called, I don't know, Chronosphere. It shares the name of the company. The other side of that distribution is the large enterprise conglomerates where they're spending, I don't know, $400 million a year on cloud, but their largest workload is 3 million bucks, and it's just a very long tail of a whole bunch of different workloads, applications, teams, et cetera.So, what I'm curious about from the Chronosphere perspective—or the product you have, not the ‘you' in this metaphor, which gets confusing—is, it feels easier to instrument a Chronosphere-like company that has a primary workload that is the massive driver of most things and get that instrumented and start getting an observability story around that than it does to try and go to a giant company and, “Okay, 1500 teams need to all implement this thing that are all going in different directions.” How do you see it playing out among your customer base, if that bimodal distribution holds up in your world?Rachel: It does and it doesn't. So, first of all, for a lot of our customers, we often start with metrics. And starting with metrics means Prometheus. And Prometheus has hundreds of exporters. It is basically built into Kubernetes. So, if you're running Kubernetes, getting Prometheus metrics out, actually not a very big lift. So, we find that we start with Prometheus, we start with getting metrics in, and we can get a lot—I mean, customers—we have a lot of customers that use us just for metrics, and they get a massive amount of value.But then once they're ready, they can start instrumenting for OTEL and start getting traces in as well. And yeah, in large organizations, it does tend to be one team, one application, one service, one department that kind of goes at it and gets all that instrumented. But I've even seen very large organizations, when they get their act together and decide, like, “No, we're doing this,” they can get OTel instrumented fairly quickly. So, I guess it's, like, a lining up. It's more of a people issue than a technical issue a lot of the time.Like, getting everyone lined up and making sure that like, yes, we all agree. We're on board. We're going to do this. But it's usually, like, it's a start small, and it doesn't have to be all or nothing. We also just recently added the ability to ingest events, which is actually a really beautiful thing, and it's very, very straightforward.It basically just—we connect to your existing other DevOps tools, so whether it's, like, a Buildkite, or a GitHub, or, like, a LaunchDarkly, and then anytime something happens in one of those tools, that gets registered as an event in Chronosphere. And then we overlay those events over your alerts. So, when an alert fires, then first thing I do is I go look at the alert page, and it says, “Hey, someone did a deploy five minutes ago,” or, “There was a feature flag flipped three minutes ago,” I solved the problem right then. I don't think of this as—there's not an all or nothing nature to any of this stuff. Yes, tracing is a little bit of a—you know, like I said, it's one of those things where you have to make a lot of investment before you get a big reward, but that's not the case in all areas of observability.Corey: Yeah. I would agree. Do you find that there's a significant easy, early win when customers start adopting Chronosphere? Because one of the problems that I've found, especially with things that are holistic, and as you talk about tracing, well, you need to get to a certain point of coverage before you see value. But human psychology being what it is, you kind of want to be able to demonstrate, oh, see, the Meantime To Dopamine needs to come down, to borrow an old phrase. Do you find that some of there's some easy wins that start to help people to see the light? Because otherwise, it just feels like a whole bunch of work for no discernible benefit to them.Rachel: Yeah, at least for the Chronosphere customer base, one of the areas where we're seeing a lot of traction this year is in optimizing the costs, like, coming back to the cost story of their overall observability bill. So, we have this concept of the control plane in our product where all the data that we ingest hits the control plane. At that point, that customer can look at the data, analyze it, and decide this is useful, this is not useful. And actually, not just decide that, but we show them what's useful, what's not useful. What's being used, what's high cardinality, but—and high cost, but maybe no one's touched it.And then we can make decisions around aggregating it, dropping it, combining it, doing all sorts of fancy things, changing the—you know, downsampling it. We can do this, on the trace side, we can do it both head based and tail based. On the metrics side, it's as it hits the control plane and then streams out. And then they only pay for the data that we store. So typically, customers are—they come on board and immediately reduce their observability dataset by 60%. Like, that's just straight up, that's the average.And we've seen some customers get really aggressive, get up to, like, in the 90s, where they realize we're only using 10% of this data. Let's get rid of the rest of it. We're not going to pay for it. So, paying a lot less helps in a lot of ways. It also helps companies get more coverage of their observability. It also helps customers get more coverage of their overall stack. So, I was talking recently with an autonomous vehicle driving company that recently came to us from the Dog, and they had made some really tough choices and were no longer monitoring their pre-prod environments at all because they just couldn't afford to do it anymore. It's like, well, now they can, and we're still saving the money.Corey: I think that there's also the downstream effect of the money saving to that, for example, I don't fix observability bills directly. But, “Huh, why is your CloudWatch bill through the roof?” Or data egress charges in some cases? It's oh because your observability vendor is pounding the crap out of those endpoints and pulling all your log data across the internet, et cetera. And that tends to mean, oh, yeah, it's not just the first-order effect; it's the second and third and fourth-order effects this winds up having. It becomes almost a holistic challenge. I think that trying to put observability in its own bucket, on some level—when you're looking at it from a cost perspective—starts to be a, I guess, a structure that makes less and less sense in the fullness of time.Rachel: Yeah, I would agree with that. I think that just looking at the bill from your vendor is one very small piece of the overall cost you're incurring. I mean, all of the things you mentioned, the egress, the CloudWatch, the other services, it's impacting, what about the people?Corey: Yeah, it sure is great that your team works for free.Rachel: [laugh]. Exactly, right? I know, and it makes me think a little bit about that viral story about that particular company with a certain vendor that had a $65 million per year observability bill. And that impacted not just them, but, like, it showed up in both vendors' financial filings. Like, how did you get there? How did you get to that point? And I think this all comes back to the value in the ROI equation. Yes, we can all sit in our armchairs and be like, “Well, that was dumb,” but I know there are very smart people out there that just got into a bad situation by kicking the can down the road on not thinking about the strategy.Corey: Absolutely. I really want to thank you for taking the time to speak with me about, I guess, the bigger picture questions rather than the nuts and bolts of a product. I like understanding the overall view that drives a lot of these things. I don't feel I get to have enough of those conversations some weeks, so thank you for humoring me. If people want to learn more, where's the best place for them to go?Rachel: So, they should definitely check out the Chronosphere website. Brand new beautiful spankin' new website: chronosphere.io. And you can also find me on LinkedIn. I'm not really on the Twitters so much anymore, but I'd love to chat with you on LinkedIn and hear what you have to say.Corey: And we will, of course, put links to all of that in the [show notes 00:28:26]. Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me. It's appreciated.Rachel: Thank you, Corey. Always fun.Corey: Rachel Dines, Head of Product and Solutions Marketing at Chronosphere. This has been a featured guest episode brought to us by our friends at Chronosphere, and I'm Corey Quinn. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice, whereas if you've hated this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice, along with an angry and insulting comment that I will one day read once I finished building my highly available rsyslog system to consume it with.Corey: If your AWS bill keeps rising and your blood pressure is doing the same, then you need The Duckbill Group. We help companies fix their AWS bill by making it smaller and less horrifying. The Duckbill Group works for you, not AWS. We tailor recommendations to your business, and we get to the point. Visit duckbillgroup.com to get started.

In this week's episode, Jon sits down with Jemiah Sius, Senior Director of Developer Relations at New Relic. As a self-taught developer, Jemiah has a wealth of experience in a range of different areas, including full-stack development, product management, and marketing. In this episode, Jon and Jemiah discuss all things observability, unpacking its vital importance in developer education and how to lower the barriers to entry in the software developer space.

Observability is becoming an increasingly competitive space in the software world. Many developers have heard of Datadog and New Relic, but there are a seemingly countless number of observability products out there. Costa Tsaousis (he/him) is the Founder and CEO of Netdata. His goal was to build an open-source platform that was high-resolution, real-time, and The post A Different Monitoring Philosophy with Costa Tsaousis appeared first on Software Engineering Daily.

Howdy, y'all, and welcome to The Cyber Ranch Podcast!  That's Kymberlee Price, strategic security consultant, Black Hat content review board member, former Sr. Director of Product Security at New Relic, former Principal Security Manager at Microsoft – Kym has held a variety of roles in our industry, but with one common theme: Kym is an outstanding team builder.  She has moved around the various facets of cybersecurity over her career, but always with an eye towards turnarounds, creating new teams, and most importantly, integrating those teams with the rest of the business.  Kym is the sort of professional whom companies design job roles for, as what she does is both amazing and necessary.  Kym, thank you so much for coming on down the ‘The Ranch! What are the hallmarks of an excellent team? How do you measure results?

We are thrilled to announce the third session of our new Incubator Program. If you have a business idea that involves a web or mobile app, we encourage you to apply to our eight-week program. We'll help you validate your market opportunity, experiment with messaging and product ideas, and move forward with confidence toward an MVP. Learn more and apply at tbot.io/incubator. We look forward to seeing your application in our inbox! Quincy Larson is the founder of freeCodeCamp.org, which helps people learn to code for free by creating thousands of videos, articles, and interactive coding lessons–all freely available to the public. Quincy shares his journey from transitioning from teaching into software development, how freeCodeCamp was born out of his desire to make educational systems more efficient through coding, and discusses the early challenges of bootstrapping the platform, and how it has now grown into a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization. Quincy and hosts Victoria and Will, discuss the platform's technical architecture, especially their global server distribution and decision to rely on volunteer-led translation efforts rather than machines to ensure both the quality and human touch of their educational content. He also talks about the state of free and low-cost degree programs, the student loan crisis, and the ongoing debate between traditional computer science degrees and coding bootcamps. Free Code Campi (https://www.freecodecamp.org/) Follow Free Code Camp on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/school/free-code-camp/) or X (https://twitter.com/freeCodeCamp). Follow Quincy Larson on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/quincylarson/) or X (https://twitter.com/ossia). Follow thoughtbot on X (https://twitter.com/thoughtbot) or LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/150727/). Become a Sponsor (https://thoughtbot.com/sponsorship) of Giant Robots! Transcript: WILL: This is the Giant Robot Smashing Into Other Giant Robots Podcast, where we explore the design, development, and business of great products. I'm your host, Will Larry. VICTORIA: And I'm your other host, Victoria Guido. And with me today is Quincy Larson, Host of the freeCodeCamp Podcast, Teacher, and Founder of freecodecamp.org, a community of people around the world who are learning to code together. Quincy, thank you for joining us. QUINCY: Yeah, thanks for having me, Will and Victoria. VICTORIA: Yeah, thank you for being here. So, I understand that you made a big shift personally for yourself from California to Texas. How has that been for your family and for, you know, as a founder who is running a nonprofit? QUINCY: Yeah, things are going great. It was a big move. We had some kids, and it was difficult to find, like, a good place to live in California that didn't cost, like, millions of dollars [laughter]. And so, at least in the San Francisco Bay Area, we were living in East Bay. I grew up here in Texas and Oklahoma. And I was like, well, maybe we could go back to the southwest, and so we did that. And we were able to come back and comfortably purchase a home here in Plano, Texas. We were able to find one that was, like, really close to a really good public school system. And so, every morning, I'm able to walk my kids to school. And I'd say that Texas has been a great change from California, where I lived for seven or eight years over there. And I love California. Texas has a lot of great things about it, too. It is a little bit hotter than California. It doesn't quite have California's Mediterranean climate, but it's been great here. I like it. And I would say if people are thinking about moving to Texas from California, there are definitely some really good spots of Texas that I think they'll feel really comfortable in. WILL: That's awesome, yeah. I'm originally from Louisiana. So, you're bringing back, like, memories of me growing up, always going to Texas and stuff. And I know exactly where Plano is, so that's amazing. How has it been with your kids? Because we were talking, and you said your kid recently started school. How's that been? QUINCY: Yeah, so my daughter started school a couple of years ago, and she just turned eight. And my son he's turning six this weekend. He just started kindergarten. We were having him take classes at the YMCA some pre-school. And he went from doing that for the first few hours of the day, and then we'd pick him up and bring him home and eat lunch with him and everything. And now he's got to go to school from, like, 7:00 a.m. to, like, 3:00 p.m. And he's been freaking out, like, "Why is school so long? Oh my goodness, I'm so tired all the time," [laughs]. So, he didn't realize that school would be as involved a process. He was all excited. But now he's complaining about, like, just the sheer length of school. But meanwhile, my wife and I we're just, like, celebrating because we actually have some time around the house where we can get work done without having kids running around causing chaos [laughs]. So yeah, I think he's adapting. He's making friends. We're doing playdates and stuff, and he's having fun. It's just a transition, you know. But it is nice because before, I would walk my daughter to school, and that was a very quick, 10-minute round trip, and then I'd walk my son to school. And that was, like, an hour round trip because we walked all the way to the YMCA. And I would do that to kind of toughen him up and get him walking a lot. It was a huge chunk of time. And now I can just grab both, one [inaudible 4:04] hand in each hand, and walk them to school, and drop them off, and be done with it and get back to work. So, it's definitely nice having both at the same school. VICTORIA: I love the work-life balance and that you were able to find and live somewhere that's affordable and has enough space for your family. And I wonder if we can draw a connection there between achieving that kind of lifestyle and learning to code, and what the mission of freeCodeCamp is for you, and what that means to people and changing careers. QUINCY: Absolutely. So, my background is in teaching. And I was a teacher and a school director at schools here in the U.S. and over in China. And that involved me being on campus, like working directly with my admin staff, with my instructional staff, and working directly with students. So, working remotely was kind of, like, a foreign concept way back in, like, 2010 or so 2011 when I started my transition into working as a software developer. But being able to work remotely has been a real game changer for me. And also, you can imagine, like, being a developer, you can command much larger compensation, and you have a lot more career options than being a teacher or a school director. So, it's given me a lot of agency in what I wanted to do. Even before, you know, starting freeCodeCamp, when I was working as a software developer and doing freelance work and stuff, I was able to do everything remotely. And that just gave me a ton of flexibility. So, the way that I learned to code personally was I wanted to help our school be more efficient. A lot of our teachers, a lot of our admin they were spending all day kind of chained to their desk entering information into computers for compliance reasons, to be able to produce great reports, to be able to produce attendance reports, immigration documents, all those things. And I just thought, like, is there a way that maybe I could automate some of this? And I didn't know anything about programming. I was about 31 years old. I was just sitting at my desk, and I just started kind of, like, Googling around and learning some very basic programming. And with that, over the course of a few months, I was really able to transform how the school ran. And we, like, won an award. And, like, a whole bunch of the students were, like, having a great time because they were spending so much more time with their teachers. And they were like, "Hey..." like, telling all their friends and family to transfer into the school. So, it was a massive success. And I thought, wow, if one person who doesn't even really know that much about programming can effect such a change with just a little bit of programming skills, imagine what I could do if I actually learned to code properly, so [chuckles] I did that. I spent about nine months going to hackathons every weekend, and reading a lot of books, and using a lot of open courses online, like from MIT, from Stanford, and I kind of taught myself to code for free. And then, I was able to get a job as a developer at a mid-size tech startup in California. And from there, I just learned more and more, and it was amazing. And it was an amazing transformation for me personally. And I thought, well, I want to help other people be able to do this because I know so many people out there would like to be working in a field where they have more conversation, a higher degree of control. They get to do creative work instead of, you know, tedious work. As a developer, you're constantly doing new stuff because code is infinitely reproducible. So, you could always just go back to code you've previously written if you needed to solve the same problem again. So, you're always in this kind of learning mindset. You're always in this problem-solving mindset. And it's really thrilling. It's just great, impactful work. So, I wanted to help more people be able to do that, hence starting a bunch of different projects that people didn't care about and then eventually starting a project that people did care about, which is freeCodeCamp. And since then, just kind of leading this project in trying to help as many people as possible learn to code. WILL: So, I was looking at your website. And I didn't even realize this until I was doing more research for the podcast, but you have over 10,000 tutorials, and they're in different categories. I saw you just recently released one on finance, which I actually bookmarked it because I'm going to go through it and look at it. You help more than a million people every day. So, how was it when you first started out? Like, how was, I guess, you could say, the grind? How was it in those early days? QUINCY: I'm a big advocate of, you know, for work-life balance, but, like, I kind of, like, exclude founders from that. I really do think that if you're trying to get something started, you're going to have to work really hard and probably way beyond what would be reasonable for a person who's getting a salary or working at an existing company if you're trying to get things started. So, I mean, it was, like, 100-hour weeks, maybe 120 some weeks [laughs]. I would sleep and just wake up and get to my desk and try to, like, put out fires, fix the server, improve the codebase, respond to learners in the community who had feedback, deal with support issues. Like, I was basically doing everything myself. And gradually, we were able to, like, build out the team over a long period of time. But really, the first few years was me self-financing everything with just my teacher savings. I spent, like, $150,000 of my own money just trying to keep freeCodeCamp going. For the first couple of years, we got tax-exempt status from the IRS. When that finally happened, I was like, great, like, let's go out and see if we can get some people to donate. So, we started asking people who were using freeCodeCamp if they'd be willing to donate $3 a month and eventually $5 a month, and we were able to support the organization through that. Really, it's just like a grassroots donor-supported effort. And then, we've been able to get some grants from Linux Foundation, and From Google, from Microsoft, from a whole lot of other big tech companies, and from some other nonprofits in the space. But mostly, it's just been, like, individual donors donating $5. And if you get enough people doing that, you get, like, a budget where you can actually pay for, you know, we have more than 100 servers around the world serving freeCodeCamp in, like, six different languages. We have, you know, all these other, like, initiatives. Like, we've got Code Radio, where you can go listen to Lo-fi while you're coding. And there are servers all over the world. And you can change the bit rate to suit whatever data you have and everything. Like, we wanted to just offer a whole lot of different services. We have mobile apps now. We've got an iOS and an Android app for freeCodeCamp. And then, of course, we've got the podcasts. We've got four podcasts: one in English, which I host, and then we've got one in Spanish, one in Portuguese, and one in Chinese. VICTORIA: Yeah, I absolutely want to ask you more about your podcasts. But first, I wanted to hear–can you tell me a little more about the decision to be 501(c)(3) or a nonprofit status? And were you always firm in that decision? Do people question it? And what was the real reasoning and commitment to that formation? QUINCY: I guess I would consider myself an idealist. Like, I genuinely believe that most educational endeavors should be, you know, nonprofit. They should be driven by either governments or by charities. I'm always kind of skeptical when there's, like, some late-night TV commercial, like, "Viewer, we'll help you get our degree," and it's from, like, a private for-profit university, something like that. So, I was like, in education...and I don't think everything in society needs to be that way, but I do think, like, education and, to an extent, healthcare these should be led by charities. Like, you know, the Red Cross, or, like, Doctors Without Borders, or churches, you know, own many of the universities, many of the hospital systems in the United States. I think that's a good thing. I think it's a very good thing that it's not just, you know, private profit-maximizing, market incentive-bound organizations that are doing all the stuff in education and in healthcare. I wanted to try to create something that, like, a lot of other people would see and say, "Oh wow, this charity can actually survive. It can sustain itself without raising a bunch of VC, without going public," or any of those things that a for-profit entity would do. And, again, I just want to emphasize, like, I don't think that iPhones should be made [chuckles] by nonprofits or anything like that. I'm just saying, like, for the purpose of actually educating people, the incentives are not necessarily aligned when you're trying to get money from...especially when you're talking about people that 60% of people on earth live off less than $10 a day. Those people should be spending their money on food. They should be spending their money on shelter. They should be spending their money on family. They should not be spending money on online courses, in my humble opinion. Like, online courses should be freely available to those people. So, to some extent, freeCodeCamp, we want to make sure that everybody everywhere in the world has access to first-rate learning resources on math, programming, computer science, regardless of their ability to pay. So, that's kind of, like, the ideal logical [inaudible 12:19], I guess, of freeCodeCamp. We kind of live that. Like, we're really serious. We will never pay, well, anything on freeCodeCamp. We won't account email gate anything. We are, I guess, absolutist in the sense that we want all of freeCodeCamp's learning resources to be free for everyone. Because of that, it made sense to like, incorporate as a 501 (c)(3) public charity. And so, we're tax-exempt. And people who donate to freeCodeCamp they can, you know, deduct it from their U.S. taxes. If a large company or even a small startup...we've had lots of startups like New Relic, like Retool, we've had Postman, Hostinger, a whole lot of different startups and mid-sized tech companies, Pulumi, Appsmith, they've all given us these grants that we can use to develop courses. So, we can often develop courses incorporating those resources. But that's tax-exempt, right? They can deduct that from their U.S. taxes. So, it's a big incentive for other people to partner with us and for people to donate funds to us. And it allows us to have the interests aligned in the sense that only people who have, you know, free cash flow or who have disposable income those are the people that are supporting freeCodeCamp. For the people that are, you know, single parents or that are taking care of their aging relatives, or are already working two jobs, or are completely unemployed and don't have any funds to speak of that are using the public library computer to access freeCodeCamp, right? Or using freeCodeCamp on a $50 prepaid phone from Walmart or something like that, right? Like those people can still use freeCodeCamp, and we can have the people who do have resources subsidize everyone else. WILL: Wow. I absolutely love that because...and I wish freeCodeCamp was around whenever I was in, like, high school and, you know, the early 2000s because we just didn't have the resources because I grew up in a small town in Louisiana. And this could have been so beneficial to that community because, like you said, we didn't have the resources–someone to teach coding there. There was no developers around that town that I was in. So, I really appreciate that you're doing this for everyone. And I know for me even...so, when I reached out to you, I did it because I was excited because I've used freeCodeCamp so many times, so many times to learn just in my journey to become a senior developer. Like, freeCodeCamp was one of the resources that I used because, one, it was free. But it wasn't...I think sometimes you can get free resources, and it's not great quality almost. Like, it's almost like you're more confused than before. But with freeCodeCamp, it was very, very amazing quality. And it was very clear on what I was learning. Honestly, thank you for helping me grow as a developer, just, honestly, thank you for that. QUINCY: Absolutely, Will. I feel honored to have helped you. And, yes, we want to help all the kids who are growing up in rural Louisiana or...I'm from, you know, Oklahoma City, not, like, the biggest, most prosperous city in the United States. Like, I want to help all of my friends who growing up who were eating meals provided by the state school system or my older friends who are on disability. Like, I want to make sure that they have resources, too. And in the process of doing that, it's a privilege to also serve all the working software engineers like you out there who just need, like, a reference resource or, like, oh, I've heard about Bun JS or Tailwind CSS. Or something like, I'm going to watch this three-hour course where I'm going to learn how to do Flutter. Like, freeCodeCamp has a 37-hour Flutter course. So, we've got, like, all these courses on using OpenAI APIs and things like that, too, right? So, it's not just for beginners, but we definitely want to, like, first and foremost, we want to serve people who we're kind of, like, the resource of last resort for, if you want to think of it that way. Like, only freeCodeCamp can help these people. Sure, they can probably use some other free courses on YouTube. And there are lots of other blogs that publish good tutorials and stuff. But freeCodeCamp is like an organized effort, specifically to help those people in need. And just kind of a side benefit of it is that you know, more established, experienced devs like you also get kind of, like, some benefit out of it as well. WILL: Whenever you were a developer, and you decided to start freeCodeCamp, how many years of experience did you have? And how did you overcome impostor syndrome, not only as a developer but as a founder? Because I feel like just overcoming it as a developer is hard, but you were also, you know, like you said, you know, handling everything for freeCodeCamp. So, how did you do that? And kind of tell us about that experience. QUINCY: Yeah. So, I didn't really know what I was doing. I think most founders probably don't know what they're doing. And I think that's totally fine because you can learn while you're doing. And we live in the United States, which is a country that kind of rewards experimentation and does not punish failure as much as a lot of other cultures does. Even if you try really hard, you're going to learn a tremendous amount, and you're going to try your next project. And that's what I did. I tried...I launched several educational, like, open learning resource-type projects, and none of them made any dent at all [laughs] in the proverbial universe. Like, nobody cared. Like, I would go and, like, I'd be talking to people. And I'd be explaining, like, "Oh, this solves this problem that you have." And you could kind of tell, like, people would sign in one time just to be polite, but then they'd never sign in again. So, it was very tricky to get traction. And I read a bunch of books. And I went to a lot of founder-focused meetups in San Francisco Bay Area. I had, like, moved out to San Francisco, specifically to try to, like, kind of make up for my deficit, the fact that I didn't know anybody because I was from Oklahoma City. I didn't know anybody in tech. And I didn't have, like, a fancy, you know, pedigree from, like, Harvard, or Wharton, or something like that, right? Like, I went to, like, a state university, and I studied English, right? And [chuckles] so, I didn't even have, like, a CS degree or anything like that. So, I definitely felt like an impostor. I just had to kind of, like, power through that and be okay with that. And it's something a little bit easier for me to do because, you know, I'm a White guy with glasses and a beard. And, like, nobody's walking up saying, "Are you sure you're a developer?" Or like, "Are you in marketing?" You know, like, the typical kind of, like, slight that they may say to somebody who doesn't necessarily look like me. And so I didn't have to deal with any of that nonsense, but there was still a lot of just self-doubt that I had to power through. And I think that was a big advantage for me. It was just, like, I was kind of, like, at war with myself and my own confidence. In fact, I found the software development community, and especially the open-source community, to be incredibly uplifting and empowering. And, like, they want to see you win. They want you to sit down and build a really cool project over the weekend and in the hackathon and present it. And, you know, they want you to learn. They know that you know, everybody is going to learn at a different rate and that a lot of people are going to get discouraged and leave tech and just go back to working in whatever field they were working in before. And that's totally cool. But I do feel that they're there to support you and to encourage you. And there are lots of different events. There are lots of different communities. I recently listened to the founder of Women Who Code, who was on this very podcast [laughs], Giant Robots Smashing Into Giant Robots, the greatest podcast name of all time. And, you know, there are people out there that are working very hard to make it easier for folks to get into tech. I think that that has been a huge part. Even before freeCodeCamp, you know, there were Harvard professors–Stanford professors putting their entire coursework for free online. You could go to, like, different tech events around California, for example, where I was when I was learning to code. And there'd just be tons of people that were eager to, like, learn more about you and to welcome you. And there would be, you know, recruiters that would talk to you and say, "Well, you may not be ready yet, but, like, let's talk in six months," right? And so, there was kind of, like, that spirit of you're going to get there. It's just going to take a lot of time. Nobody was telling me, "Oh, learning to code is easy," [chuckles] because it's not easy. There were lots of people that were, like, "Learning to code is hard. But you've got this. Just stick with it. If I could be of help, let me know," people who would pair program with me to help me, like, improve my chops, people who would volunteer to, like, look at my projects and give design feedback, all those kinds of things. And I think you're going to find all those things on the web. You're going to find those things in the open-source community. freeCodeCamp has a forum where people volunteer their time and energy to help build one another up and help one another get unstuck on whatever projects they're working on, give feedback on projects. And so, I think, to a large extent, the very giving nature, I almost want to say, like, selfless nature, of the global software developer community that is what saved me. And that's what enabled me to transition into this field, even as a teacher in his 30s. VICTORIA: It's interesting you say that. Because I feel as someone who hires engineers and developers, I love people who have teaching backgrounds because it means they're five-star communicators [laughs]. And I think that you know, in your job, when you're pairing with other developers, or you're talking to clients, in our case, that communicating what you're working on and how you're thinking about something is, like, 50% of the job [laughs]. For freeCodeCamp, I saw you have 40,000 people have found jobs after completing courses on there. I hope you feel like you've really, like, established some success here already. But what's on the horizon? What are you looking forward to in the next six months or six years with freeCodeCamp? QUINCY: Yeah, I'll be happy to answer that. But I want to emphasize what you just said: communication is, like, half the job. That's something that thoughtbot has gotten really early on. And I'll tell you that thoughtbot Playbook was incredibly helpful for me as a software developer and also early on for freeCodeCamp's team. And I think a lot of teams make use of that open resource. So, thank you for continuing to maintain that and kind of drive home that communication really is...like, meetings are essential [chuckles]. And it's not always just, like, leave me alone and let me go back to my cubicle and code. You know, I like to quote the old joke that, you know, weeks of coding can save you hours of meetings because I really do believe that communication is core. So, to answer your question about where freeCodeCamp is headed in terms of what kind of impact we'd like to have, I feel like we're just getting started. I feel like pretty much every Fortune 500 company wants to become a tech company in some way or another. Everybody is pushing things to the software layer because software is infinitely reproducible. It's so much easier to maintain software or fix things in production. Like, you realize, oh, there's a big problem. Like, we don't have to recall all the cars back to the dealerships to go and open up the hood and fix this, you know, mechanical defect. If we're controlling all these things at the software layer, right? We can potentially just deploy a fix and tell people like, "Hey, version update [chuckles], you know, download this security patch," or whatever, right? So, there are so many different things that you can do with software. I feel like the potential growth of the field of software and the number of software developers that the world will ultimately need...currently, we've got maybe 30 or 40 million developers on earth that are professional paid-to-code people. But I think that number is going to increase dramatically over the next 50 years or so. And I'll go ahead and address the elephant in the room [laughs] because pretty much everybody asks me this question like, "Don't you think that, like, tools like large language models like GPT-4 and things are going to obviate the need for so many developers?" And I think they're going to make individual developers more productive. But if you think about what code is, it's really extremely explicit directions for how to do something, whether you're using, you know, machine code, or you're using a scripting language like Python, or you're using English, and you're talking directly to the computer like you would on Star Trek. Essentially, you have to have a really deep understanding of the problem. And you need to know exactly what needs to be done in exactly what sequence. You may not need to manipulate bytecode like you would back in the '70s. But you are going to need to understand the fundamental problems, and you're going to need to be able to address it. So, I'm optimistic that the number of developers is going to continue to grow. The developers are going to continue to command more and more, I guess, respect in society. And they're going to continue to have more and more agency in what they want to do with their careers and have more and more options and, ultimately, be able to command higher compensation, be able to work remotely if they'd like. Developers will continue to be able to ascend through corporate hierarchies and become, you know, vice presidents or even executives like the CEO, right? If you look at a lot of the big tech companies, the CEO is a developer. And I think that that will continue. And the computer science degrees will continue to be extremely valuable. So, what is freeCodeCamp working on now that we think will further help people? Well, we're working on a free four-year computer science degree, a Bachelor in computer science, and there's also an associate in mathematics that we're developing. And those are going to be a progression of 40 university-level courses that have labs and have a substantial block of lectures that you'll watch. And then, we'll also have final examinations and everything. And we're developing that curriculum. We've got one of the courses live, and we're developing the second one, and eventually, we'll have all 40. It'll take till the 2030s. But we're going to have those. And then, once we have some longitudinal data about graduates and their success rates and everything, we are going to apply for the accreditation process, and we're going to get accredited as a university, right? Like, you can go through that process. Not a lot of organizations do that; not a lot of new universities are coming about in the 2020s. But it is something that can be done. And we've done a great deal of research, talked to a bunch of accreditors, talked to a bunch of university admins who go through the accreditation process. We think we can do it. So, again, very long-term goal. But when you're a 501(c)(3) public charity, you don't have to worry about freeCodeCamp getting acquired or all the things that would traditionally happen with, like, a for-profit company. You have a lot more leeway to plan really far. And you've got, like, this really broad mandate in terms of what you want to accomplish. And even if, you know, creating a university degree program in the 2030s would not be a profitable endeavor that, like, a rational shareholder value-maximizing corporation would embark upon, it is the sort of project that, you know, a charity like freeCodeCamp could do. So, we're going to do it. MID-ROLL AD: When starting a new project, we understand that you want to make the right choices in technology, features, and investment but that you don't have all year to do extended research. In just a few weeks, thoughtbot's Discovery Sprints deliver a user-centered product journey, a clickable prototype or Proof of Concept, and key market insights from focused user research. We'll help you to identify the primary user flow, decide which framework should be used to bring it to life, and set a firm estimate on future development efforts. Maximize impact and minimize risk with a validated roadmap for your new product. Get started at: tbot.io/sprint. VICTORIA: I think that's great. And, actually, you know, I got my master's in information technology and project management online way back when. So, I really like the availability of modern computer science bachelor's and master's being available at that low price point. And you're able to pursue that with the business structure you put in place. I'm curious to kind of go back to something you said earlier on how widely available it is and how you spread out across all these multiple countries. Were there any technical architecture decisions that you had to make along the way? And how did those decisions end up turning out? QUINCY: Absolutely. So, one of the things we did was we located servers all around the world. We're multi-cloud, and we've got servers in different data centers in, like, Singapore, Europe, Latin America, and we're trying to reduce latency for everybody. Another thing that we've done is, you know, we don't use, like, Google Translate to just translate all our different pages into however many languages are currently available on Google Translate; I think it's, like, more than 100. We actually have a big localization effort that's led primarily by volunteers. We have some staff that oversee some of the translation. And essentially, we have a whole bunch of people working at translate.freecodecamp.org and translating the curriculum, translating the tutorials into major world languages. Most prominently would be Spanish, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Portuguese, Ukrainian. Like, all these different world languages, there's, like, a freeCodeCamp version for those, and you can go into the menu, and you can choose it. And it's actually, like, hand-translated by native speakers of that language who are developers. So, that's been another extremely, you know, time-intensive effort by the community. But we believe that, you know, the quality of the translations is really important. And we want that kind of human touch. We don't want kind of weird artifacts and typos that would be associated with machine translation. And we want to make sure that each of the challenges...because they're extremely tersely worded, again, communication is so important. If you go through the freeCodeCamp curriculum, we try to use as few words as absolutely necessary to effectively communicate what the task the learner needs to accomplish is, and we try to, just in time, teach them concepts. We don't want to present them with a big wall of text. Read this 20-page PDF to understand how, you know, CSS, you know, borders work or something like that. No, we're teaching, like, kind of, like, just in time, like, okay, let's write this line of code. Okay, great, the test passed. Let's go to this next one. This test isn't passing. Here is some contextual-specific hints as to why your code is not passing, why you're not able to advance, right? And we do projects [inaudible 30:30] to learn where we break everything down into steps. So, that's a lot of instructions that need to be very carefully translated into these different world languages to truly make freeCodeCamp accessible to everyone, regardless of whether they happen to be fortunate enough to grow up speaking English at a native level, right? I would say that's our main consideration is, like, the localization effort but also just having servers everywhere and doing everything we can to comply with, like, all the different data rules and privacy rules and everything of all these different countries. It's a lot of work, but in my humble opinion, it's worth it. WILL: I had, like, a two-part question because I wanted to loop back around. When you're talking about the free bachelor's program, one, does anything like that exist where you can get a bachelor-level program, and it's free? And then the second part is, how many countries are you in? QUINCY: Yeah, so currently, lots of governments in Europe, for example, will offer free degrees that are kind of subsidized by the state. There may be some other kind of degree equivalent programs that are offered that are subsidized by corporations. For example, if you work at Starbucks, I think you can get a degree from Arizona State University. And that's a great benefit that Starbucks offers to people. Arizona State University, of course, being one of the biggest public universities in the United States in terms of enrollment. As far as free degrees, though, in the United States, there's nothing like that where, like, literally anyone can just go and get a degree for free without needing to enroll, without needing to pay any sort of fees. There are tuition-free programs, but they still charge you fees for, like, taking exams and things like that. What I like to call ultra-low-cost degree providers–there's Western Governors University, and there's University of the People. And both of these are accredited institutions that you can go, and you can get a degree for, you know, $5,000, $10,000, $15,000. And it's a full-blown four-year degree. Now, that is amazing. I applaud those efforts. I've enjoyed talking to the folks at those different schools. I think the next step is to go truly free. There's nothing blocking you at all. You don't have to be banked. You don't have to have a credit card. You don't have to have any money. You can still get this degree. That's what we're chasing. And I think we'll get there, but it's just a lot of work. WILL: So, it's blowing my mind. It's just blowing me away because, like, you know, we talk about the student loan crisis, I would say. The impact if...when—I'm not going to say if—when you do this, the impact that can have on there, have you thought about that? And kind of, if you have, what has been your thoughts around that? QUINCY: Yeah, so there are $1.7 trillion in outstanding student loans in the United States. That's money that individual people, most of whom don't make a ton of money, right? Like, many of those people didn't actually finish the degree that they incurred the debt to pursue. Many of them had to drop out for a variety of different reasons or defer. Maybe they'll eventually finish those degrees. But as you can see from, like, the macroeconomic, educational, like, labor market data, like, having a partial degree doesn't make a big difference in terms of your earning power. You really need to finish the degree to be able to realize the benefits of having spent all that time studying, and a lot of people haven't. So, yes, there are, like, a lot of people out there that went to medical school, for example, and they're working as physicians. And they are going to eventually be able to pay that off because they're doctors, and they're commanding a great compensation, right? And they've got tons of career options. But if you studied English like I did and you incurred a whole lot of student debt, it could take a very long time for you to make enough money as a teacher, or as, like, a grant writer, or working at a newspaper, or something like that. Like, it can take you years to pay it off. And, in the meantime, it's just continuing to accumulate interest in your, you know, you might be a very diligent person who pays their student loan bill every single month, and yet, you could see that amount, the total amount that you owe continuing to grow despite this. That's just the nature of the time value of money and the nature of debt. And I thank my lucky stars that I went to school back in, like, 2000. Like, my tuition was $1,000 a semester, right? I mean, it's incredible. But that was, like, at a state school, like, a public university in the middle of Oklahoma. And it's not, like, a university you've heard of. It's basically, like, the cheapest possible option. I think community colleges can make a huge dent. I always implore people to think more about community colleges. I've talked with so many people on the freeCodeCamp podcast who were able to leverage community colleges and then transition into a, you know, research university, like a state school, and finish up their degree there. But they saved, like, basically half their money because they were paying almost nothing to attend the community college. And in California especially, the community colleges are just ridiculously worth it. Like, you're paying a few hundred dollars a course. I mean, it's just incredible value. So, I think the community college system is going to play a big role. But my hope is that, you know, freeCodeCamp can thrive. And it'll take us years for people to realize because if you go on, like, Google Ads and you try to run a Google Ad for, like, any sort of educational-related topic, anything related to higher education, it's, like, hundreds of dollars per click because there are all these for-profit universities that make a tremendous amount of money from getting people who just came back from serving in the military and getting, like, huge chunks of their GI Bill, or getting, like, all these federal subsidies, any number of things. Or basically just tricking families into paying huge amounts of money when they could have attended a much more sensible public university, you know, a private nonprofit university that doesn't charge an arm and a leg. So, I think that we are going to have an impact. I just want to say that I don't think that this is a panacea. It's going to take many years for freeCodeCamp to be adopted by a whole lot of people. It will take a long time for employers to look at the freeCodeCamp degree and say, "Oh, this is comparable to a computer science degree from..." say, Ohio State, or UT Austin, or something like that, right? Like, it's going to be a long time before we can get that level of buy-in. I don't want anybody listening to say, "Oh, I'd love to get a computer science degree. I'm just going to hold out and get the degree from freeCodeCamp." Like, my humble advice would be: go to a community college, then go to a state school. Get that four-year computer science degree. It is worth its weight in gold. But you don't want to accumulate a lot of debt. Just try to like, minimize your debt in the meantime. And, hopefully, over time, you know, the free model will prove out, and it'll just be a whole bunch of alumni supporting freeCodeCamp. And that's the dream is that, like, you know, Michael Bloomberg gave a billion dollars to Johns Hopkins University, a billion dollars. Like, Johns Hopkins never needs to charge tuition again with a billion dollars. They can just basically operate their institution off the interest from that, right? And lots of institutions...like, Harvard has, I don't know, like, 60-plus billion dollars in their endowment, right? So, the idea would be freeCodeCamp continues to get this, you know, huge alumni network of people who are doing great and who went to freeCodeCamp and who basically donate back in. And then, we can essentially have the deep pockets subsidizing everybody else who's just at the beginning of their careers who don't have a lot of earning power. You know, when I was a teenager, when I was in my 20s, I worked at convenience stores. I worked at Taco Bell. I did all kinds of, like, literally showing up at 6:00 a.m. to mop the grocery store-type jobs, right? And that is not a path to being able to afford an education in 2023. University tuition is out of control. It's, like, ridiculously high. It's grown way faster than inflation for decades. So, what can we do to alleviate that pressure? In my humble opinion, we just need to come up with free options and support ultra-low-cost options that are already out there. VICTORIA: I was going to ask, but you might have already answered this question somewhat. But I get this question a lot for people who are interested in getting into tech, whether they should get a computer science degree or go to a bootcamp. And I think you've mentioned all the positive things about getting a degree. I'm curious if, in your degree program, you would also tailor it more to what people might expect in a modern tech market and industry in their first job. QUINCY: Yeah. So, the way that we're developing our degree program is we essentially did, like, an analysis of the top 20 computer science programs in the United States: Carnegie Mellon, Berkeley, Stanford, MIT, all those schools that you would think of as being, like, really good computer science programs. And we basically drew a best-fit line through all their course offerings and looked at all their textbooks and everything that they cover. And, essentially, we're teaching a composite of those top 20 programs. Now, there are some things that, surprisingly, those programs don't offer, such as a course on ethics. It's something like 13% of those degree programs require an ethics course. And I think every developer should take a developer ethics course, or at least some sort of philosophy course to, like, understand what does it mean to be a good person? [laughs] Like, what is, you know, an anti-pattern? What is Blackhat user experiences? [laughs] I'm like, when should I, like, raise my hand during a meeting to say like, "Hey, should we really be doing this?" You know. So, ethics–security courses–I was surprised that not very many of those degree programs offer a course in information security, which I believe should be required. So, I'm kind of editorializing a little bit on top of what the composite says. But I feel very strongly that, you know, our degree program needs to have those courses. But in general, it's just everything that everybody else is teaching. And yes, like, a coding bootcamp...I've written a lot about coding bootcamps. I wrote, like, a Coding Bootcamp Handbook, which you can just Google, like, "Coding bootcamp book" or something like that, probably then you can find it. But, essentially like, those programs are usually private. Even if it's at a big, public university, it's often run by a big, private for-profit bootcamp chain. I don't want to say, like, all bootcamps are a bad deal, but buyer beware [laughs]. Frankly, I don't think that you can learn everything you need to know to be a software engineer within the compressed timelines that a lot of those bootcamps are operating under. There's a reason it takes four years to get a computer science degree because: there's a tremendous amount of math, programming, computer science, engineering knowledge that you need to cultivate. And you can absolutely get a developer job without a computer science degree. I don't have a computer science degree [chuckles], and I worked as a software engineer, right? And I know plenty of people who are doing that that didn't even go to college, right? People who were truckers or people who were doing construction work who just sat down and hit the books really hard and came out the other side being able to work as a software developer. But it is going to be vastly easier for you if you do have a computer science degree. Now, if you're in your 30s, if you've got kids, if you've got a whole lot of other obligations, should you go back to school? Maybe not. And so, it's not cut and dry, like, oh, just drop whatever you're doing and go back to...The situation is going to be nuanced. If you've already got a job working as a developer, should you go back and get a CS degree? Probably not. Maybe you can get your employer to pay for you to go to, like, a CS master's program, for example. There are a lot of really good online master's degree programs. Like, Georgia Tech has a master's in computer science that is very affordable, and it's very good. Georgia Tech is one of the best computer science programs in the United States. So, definitely, like, everybody's situation is going to be different. And there's no blanket advice. I would just be very wary of, like, anybody who's talking to you who wants your money [laughs]. freeCodeCamp will never want your money for anything. Like, we would love to have your donation long after you're a successful developer. You turn around and, like, send the elevator back down by donating to freeCodeCamp. But just be skeptical and, like, do your research and don't buy into, like, the marketing speak about, like, being able to get a job immediately. "Oh, it's easy. Anybody can learn to code." Like, I do believe any sufficiently motivated person can learn to code. But I also believe that it's a process that can take years, especially if you're doing the safe thing and continuing to work your day job while you learn these skills over a much longer period of time. I don't believe learning in a compressed kind of bootcamp...like, if you think about, you know, bootcamp in the military, like, this is, like, you're getting shipped away, and you're doing nothing but, like, learning these skills and everything like that. And I don't think that that's right for programming, personally [laughs]. I think there's a reason why many of these programs have gone from 9 weeks to 12 weeks to 6 months. Some of them might be, like, an entire year now. It's because it's them kind of admitting that, like, oh, there's quite a bit to learn here, and it's going to take some time. And there's diminishing returns to learning a whole bunch of hours in a day. I think you'll make much better gains studying programming 1 hour a day for 365 days than you'll make studying, you know, 8 hours a day for, like, two months or something like that if that makes sense. I'm not sure if the math works out there. But my point is, it's totally fine, and it's actually quite optimal to just work your day job, take care of your kids, spend time with your parents, you know, do all those things, hang out with friends and have a social life, all those things in addition to just having programming be one of those things you're working on in the background with your mornings or your evenings. WILL: Tell us a little bit about your podcast. Yeah, tell us kind of what's the purpose of it and just the history of it. QUINCY: Yeah. Well, I learned from the best. So, I'm a longtime listener of this podcast, of course. My friend, Saron Yitbarek, hosts CodeNewbie, which is an excellent podcast, the Changelog, which is an open-source podcast. I've had a great time interviewing the Changelog hosts and being on their show several times. So, I basically just learned as much as I could, and then I just went out and started interviewing people. And so, I've interviewed a lot of devs. I've interviewed people that are, like, learning to code driving Uber. I've interviewed the founder of Stack Overflow [chuckles], Jeff Atwood. I'm going to interview the founder of Trello in a few weeks when I'm back out in New York City. And I do my interviews in person. I just have my mobile studio. When I'm in San Francisco–when I'm in New York, I just go around and do a bunch of interviews and kind of bank them, and then I edit them myself and publish them. And the goal is just to give people exposure to developers. What are developers thinking? What are developers talking about? What do developers care about? And I try to hit, like, a very broad range of developers, try to talk to as many women as possible and, you know, striving for, like, 50% representation or better on the podcast. And I talk to a lot of people from different countries, although that's a little harder to do when you're recording in person. I may break down and do some over Zencastr, which is a tool we used in the past. I just like the spontaneity and the fun of meeting with people in person. But yeah, it's just like, if you are looking for, like, long-form, some of these are, like, two-and-a-half-hour long discussions, where we really delve into people's backstory and, like, what inspired them to become a developer, what they're learning along the way, how they feel about different aspects of software development. Like, for example, earlier, Will, you mentioned impostor syndrome, which is something I think virtually everybody struggles with in some capacity, you know, the freeCodeCamp podcast, tune in [chuckles] and subscribe. And if you have any feedback for me, I'd love to hear it. I'm still learning. I'm doing my best as a podcast host. And I'm constantly learning about tech as it evolves, as new tools come out, as new practices are pioneered. There's entire new technologies, like large language models, that actually work. And, I mean, we've had those since, like, the '60s, like, language models and stuff, but, like, only recently have they become incredibly impressive, exploring these tools and exploring a lot of the people behind them. VICTORIA: Okay, great. Do you have any questions for me or Will? QUINCY: Yeah. What inspired you all to get involved in tech, in...I don't know if somebody...did somebody at thoughtbot actually approach you and say, "Hey, we want you to run this"? Or was it something where like, "I'd love to run this"? Like, because podcasting is not easy. You're putting yourself out there. You're saying things that are recorded forever [laughs]. And so, if you say something really naive or silly or something like that, that's kind of always there, right? It takes a certain amount of bravery to do this. What got you into hosting this podcast? VICTORIA: For me, I mean, if I go way back before getting into tech, my mom she got her undergraduate degree in horticulture to become a florist, and then realized she couldn't make any money off that and went back to school for computer science. And so, she taught me how to use a computer really early on. And when I was in school, I had started in architecture, and then I wanted to change into business intelligence. But I didn't want to apply to the business school, so I got a degree in economics and a job at the IT help desk. And then from there, I was able to kind of transition into tech as a teacher, which was oddly enough...my first job in tech was training a 400-person program how to do, like, version management, and peer reviews [laughs], and timekeeping. And the reason I got the job is a friend from rock climbing introduced me, and he's like, they're like, "Oh, well, you train people how to rock climb. You can train people how to, like, do this stuff." [laughs] I'm like, oh, okay, that sounds great. But anyways, I worked my way up into project management and ended up getting my masters in IT. And when I came to thoughtbot, I had just moved to California, and I wanted to rebuild my network. I had a big network in D.C., organizing meetups and DevOps D.C., Women Who Code, teaching people, and communicating. And I ran a very small podcast there with a friend. So, when I joined thoughtbot, a podcast was a great way to just meet different people, expand my network, give people something to talk to me about when I go to events [laughs] that's not just, like, let me sell you some DevOps work. For me, it's been really fun to just reach out to people that we admire in the community and hear their story, and a little bit about them, and what advice they have for themselves or for other people. And, usually, that ends up benefiting me as well. So, it's been very fun for me. QUINCY: So, your less conventional path into tech combined with your own experience doing podcasting, it sounds like you were a natural choice for hosting a podcast. VICTORIA: Right. And I think I said before we started the show I didn't realize that it was such a well-loved and long-running podcast [laughs] [inaudible 49:01]. But I think we've really come into our own a little bit with hosting, and it's been super fun to work with Will and Chad on it as well. QUINCY: Awesome. And, Will, what's your story, man? How did you get onto the coveted Giant Robots Smashing into Giant Robots podcast? WILL: I actually went to college for sports medicine, and I was on track to go to med school, but my senior year...which I wish I would have had this conversation with myself a lot earlier, didn't have to do the hard work that I did at undergraduate. But my senior year, I was like, why am I really going to med school? And, honestly, it was more for the money, for the...yeah, more for the money. I just wanted to get paid a lot of money. I was like, yeah, that's not going to sustain me. I need to just pivot. So, I pivoted–started working at some nonprofits. And I ended up losing my job and got another job at Buckle, the clothing store, which was not a great fit for me. It helped me provide, but that's just not who I am. I'm not a fashion icon [laughs]. And then I changed to a travel agency insurance company, which it paid the bills. I wasn't passionate about it at all, and it paid the bills. And I was still struggling from losing my job. It was the first time that I lost my job. And my spouse came to me one day and is like, "All right, we're going to have the serious talk." And we almost flipped roles because that's usually who I am. I'm like, "All right, let's have a real talk. Let's get down to it." But I was just in a bad place. And she was like, "All right, we have to change because we can't keep going down this path." So, she was like, "If you had a choice to do anything, what would you want to do?" And I was like, "Well, probably something with computers and coding because I never had that opportunity when I was growing up because of the small town." And she looked at me, and she's like, "Go sign up right now." And I was like, okay, I'm going to sign up. When you mentioned that you made a transition in your 30s, I was around my 30s when I made the transition into coding. And so, it was a big transition. It was a big pivot for me because I'm having to learn, almost like I'm in college again, which was eight years ago. And so, it was just tough, and it wasn't new. So, that's how I got into coding. How I got on the podcast: I think I was talking to Chad and my direct report. I was just talking to them about challenging myself, and so it was multiple things. But, like, writing blog posts that was actually very challenging to me. I still don't like to write. It's not my favorite thing. Give me math or something like that or science; that's where I feel at home. But whenever, you know, you talk about writing and stuff, I can do it, and I'm decent at it. But it's not something that I feel comfortable in. The same thing with the podcast. The reason why I got on here is because I wanted to get out of my comfort zone and I wanted to grow. And I also wanted to get a chance to talk to people who's making a difference–who's impacting the world. So, like, this conversation today is like, yes, this is why I wanted to be a part of this podcast. So yeah, that's how I got started in tech and on the podcast. QUINCY: Awesome, Will. I'm thrilled that you went ahead and persevered and got into tech. It doesn't sound like it was a straight line, and it rarely is for people. But I'm always excited to meet somebody who learned to code in their 30s who stuck with it and is prospering as a result. So, congratulations to you. WILL: Thank you. VICTORIA: I'm still learning. I haven't quite got [inaudible 52:42] "Hello, worlds," multiple times [laughs]. But I don't really code every day for my job. I just kind of need to know what stuff is to be able to talk to people and in that way as a managing director. So, I appreciate Will bringing that backstory to this episode in particular. What else? Any other final takeaway that you'd like to leave our listeners with? QUINCY: I just want to thank you all for continuing to host this podcast, thoughtbot for operating the excellent Playbook, which, for anybody listening who is unfamiliar with, you should check it out. Again, it's just chock full of institutional wisdom accumulated over the years. And I hope everybody out there who's thinking about taking the plunge and learning coding or software development, or even, like, a semi-technical area of being in the software development process of learning visual design, learning how to do user experience research, any number of the different roles in tech, I hope you'll go for it. And I hope you will be as undaunted as you can. And just know that freeCodeCamp and the freeCodeCamp community we are in your corner. If you need to learn something, there's a very good chance that we have some tutorials written by thoughtful teachers who want people like you to come forward and like, read these resources and use it. There's a saying: like, the thing that programmers want the most is to have their code running in production somewhere. And, as a teacher, the thing you want the most is for you to have students, for you to have learning resources out there that are making a positive difference. So, again, I just count my blessings every day that I'm able to be involved in this community. I hope anyone listening who wants to transition into tech or to become even more technical gets involved in the freeCodeCamp community as well. We welcome you. WILL: Are there any opportunities? I know we talked about donations. So, for one, where can they go if they want to donate? And then also, like, you know, if developers want to get to be a part of the open-source network you have, is that possible? And how can they do that? QUINCY: Absolutely. So, if you want to donate to freeCodeCamp, just go to donate.freecodecamp.org. And you can become, like, a $5 a month donor, if you'd like. If you want to give a larger amount, I've got this article; just Google "How to Donate to freeCodeCamp." And I've written this detailed guide to, like, all the different ways like mailing checks. We had a gentleman who passed away and left a whole lot of money for freeCodeCamp in his will. So, those kinds of legacy gifts are definitely something. We've had people donate stock, like, any number of different things. I will bend over backwards to make sure that we can receive your donation, and we can give you a tax receipt so you can deduct it from your taxes as well if you'd like. And then, for contributing to freeCodeCamp, of course, we're an open-source project, and we welcome your code contributions. We have spent a great deal of time trying to make freeCodeCamp as hospitable as possible for both new developers who want to get involved and more senior developers who just want to do some, like, 20%-time type contributing to open-source projects: contribute.freecodecamp.org. So, again, donate.freecodecamp.org and contribute.freecodecamp.org. Those will take you where you need to go. VICTORIA: Wonderful. Thank you so much again, Quincy, for joining us. And you can subscribe to the show and find notes along with a complete transcript for this episode at giantrobots.fm. If you have questions or comments, email us at hosts@giantrobots.fm. And you can find me on Twitter @victori_ousg. WILL: And you could find me on Twitter @will23larry. This podcast is brought to you by thoughtbot and produced and edited by Mandy Moore. Thanks for listening. See you next time. ANNOUNCER: This podcast is brought to you by thoughtbot, your expert strategy, design, development, and product management partner. We bring digital products from idea to success and teach you how because we care. Learn more at thoughtbot.com. Special Guest: Quincy Larson.

ElectricSQL is a project that offers a local-first sync layer for web and mobile apps, Ned Batchelder writes about the myth of the myth of “learning styles”, Carl Johnson thinks XML is better than YAML, Berkan Sasmaz defines and describes “idempotency” & HyperDX is an open source alternative Datadog or New Relic.