Podcasts about chuck you

Chuck Tanowitz (https://www.linkedin.com/in/ctanowitz/) is a seasoned professional in strategic communications, with a history of building strong programs that drive media and brand growth. His experience spans more than 15 years—he has played key roles in shaping the marketing and communication strategies for various brands, including Paytronix Systems, Greentown Labs, the N-Squared Innovation District, TenMarks, and a long list of others. Chuck is back on Confessions of Marketer for the second time—having joined us in 2017 in the very early days of this podcast. Transcript Mark Reed-Edwards: Welcome to this special episode of Confessions of a Marketer. I'm Mark Reed Edwards. We're back with this mini series of shows I've dubbed the Talent Showcase. These episodes focus on people in marketing, communications, PR, and allied fields who are looking for their next opportunity. My guests share their stories, successes, and how they can help their next employer or client. Today, I'm joined by Chuck Tanowitz. Chuck is a seasoned professional in strategic communications with a history of building strong programs that drive media and brand growth. His experience spans more than 15 years. He's played a key roles in shaping the marketing and communication strategies for various brands, including Paytronix Systems, Greentown Labs, the N Squared Innovation District, 10 Marks, and a long list of others. Chuck Tanowitz is back on Confessions of a Marketer for the second time, having joined us in 2017, the very early days of this podcast. Chuck, welcome back. Chuck Tanowitz: Thank you. I I really appreciate you having me on. Mark: It's great to chat. So can you tell me more about yourself beyond what I just shared, you know, your background and career path? Chuck: You know, it's interesting. I was reading an article recently that talked about developing a career portfolio as opposed to a career path, and I feel like that's actually a little bit of what I've done. Yes, the core of my career has been in PR and marketing and brand, but I've also taken on these other roles outside. That's how I ended up, for example, at the N squared Innovation District, which was really more of an economic development effort, as much it was a marketing effort. So it's given me this broad base of very interesting kind of pieces that I've done. You know, when I look at the work I did at Paytronix, which was very much traditional marketing and PR and brand, which was: drive leads and drive interest in this company. But then you look at something like N-Squared, where it was: "How do I develop a community? How do I bring in art into the project and develop placemaking? How do I connect with local colleges and universities?" And then something like Greentown Labs, where it was: "How do you build something from zero and get it known where you're trying to not necessarily build leads, but certainly build brand around a name and what it means and giving it some brand equity?" And then also creating my own PR from, which I had done a few years ago. And then also being a local advocate and sit on the Economic Development Commission. And then most recently, I spent three days in Vermont learning how to bake croissants. So it's, you know, how do I put all those things together and begin to say, "What do they all mean and how do you move forward?" Mark: Boy, there are some analogies one can make to baking related to our profession. You know, being patient, right? And letting things rise. Chuck: Yeah, sometimes I am not nearly patient enough in my rise. But yes, that is a big part of baking. In fact, I said to my wife the other day, "What I need to do when I bake is plan out a series of bakes along the way, so that while one thing is sitting and rising, I'm working on the next thing." You're right, it does align with where you are in PR, where you're kind of, yes, you might be working on a press release over here, but that's not going out, you know, for two months, three months, six weeks, whatever it is. I also need to be doing the short- term pieces that's going to be driving things forward. But that's actually, I think, where, you know, if you want to kind of bring that analogy back out, where a lot of companies are missing the boat on PR. I know when I was doing my own agency, people would say to me, "Well, how will I know PR is working in the leads that I get?" And I heard it described recently as: demand generation is my sales in this month and next month. PR and brand are my sales in six months to a year. Looking at that over the long term is very difficult to kind of parse out how much is PR and brand doing for you and how much is demand gen doing for you. Those things have to work together, but you're right, there is a lot of patience involved in that PR and brand strategy because they are long term. You're not going to flip a switch and people are just going to know about you It's going to take some time. Mark: And croissants are layered, and it's very fine layers, so maybe there's another analogy we could make there. Chuck: I don't know if you've ever made croissants, but I was learning how to lock in butter which is a whole different thing. But yes, they are layered. There's a very careful folding process you need to do to get the right layers. You need to be patient. I was so proud of myself the other day when I made these croissants and I bit into it and I could see the honeycomb layer within it was like, Oh yes, I hit all those layers just right. But again, you don't know until you're done, right? When I bake a bread, it really takes 24 hours for sourdough to mature and come to life. And you put it in the oven and at that very last step, you could burn it. You could put it in too early, too late. And suddenly all this work you've done for the last 24 hours, is shot. And that's it. Right? So there's a lot of businesses that operate like that, but PR is definitely the end of that process. You can't rely on a single launch to make or break a company. You have to do it over time because there's too many factors that could get in the way that are often outside of your control. I mean, how many of us were working on a launch and the week before something major happens in the world and it completely changes what you're trying to do, right? Happens to Hollywood all the time. How many times have you heard a movie getting delayed or moving around because another one was coming out? Or some major event happens in the world-- a news event, a death, something tragic-- and it's like, "Well, we can't release a movie into that environment." So there's a lot of places that operate like that. Businesses need to be aware that they exist in that market and they can't plan these things out and say, "We have to hit that date, otherwise we're going to die." That's not a good way to run that company. You have to think long term and having a whole host of things moving throughout the year. It's a long growth process. Mark: It's kind of interesting. I don't want to get bogged down in this subject, but ESG and DEI have cropped up in the last several years for good reason. Prior to that, it's almost like companies existed in a different world. Most of them didn't want to get involved in what was going on in the greater society. Chuck: We dealt a little bit with that at my last position. During the George Floyd protests and Black Lives Matter, before the federal government declared Juneteenth a holiday, my CEO had decided: we are going to close the office on Juneteenth. And we are going to encourage our employees to do public service, to take some time to read and to think. And we put out, you know, internally, a bunch of reading suggestions and so on. I was on the DEI committee, so I was part of that decision. And we sent an email off to our customers to let them know that we were going to be closed that day. And our customers were nationwide. Many of them were convenience stores in the Midwest and South. And we had a very mixed response back. Some people were very supportive: "Well, this makes a lot of sense." Some people felt that we were politicizing the business world. And to my CEO's credit, he said, "This is what we're doing." We didn't lose any business over it. None of that happened. And a year later, the federal government made Juneteenth a holiday regardless. So clearly, we were heading in the correct direction, but you know, he had to look at that response to say, "That's okay. I'm going to take that." And businesses do need to do that. They do need to realize that they live in a greater world and what they stand for matters. I'm seeing that shift a little bit from where it was even a year or two ago, where people are getting a little less comfortable being out there. But I do think it's important and I do think people are making purchasing decisions, at least on the consumer side, in part by what your business stands for. Mark: So this is about you, Chuck. So let's turn the focus back to you. And can you share one of your most important career accomplishments? Chuck: It's interesting that there's actually a lot of things I can pull from that. Let me start recently and go backwards a little bit in time. I was very proud of the work that I did at Paytronix in launching the brand. Getting the opportunity to launch a brand of that magnitude where it was not just, "Hey, let's just change a few aspects of how our logo looks." But this was a complete change in what we looked like, what we sounded like, who we were, how we talked about ourselves-- across the board, the tool sets, the graphic tool sets, the conversations. To have that opportunity to build that and to say, "How do I bring that out internally? How do I bring that out externally?" That was really interesting. I learned a tremendous amount from that project. I was proud of the work that I did there. I was proud of what it did for the company. There was an, you know, some immediate jumps in, you know, that, that brand awareness that happened. You don't often see that, but you know, it was nice to see those Google searches go through the roof. So you certainly saw that impact right away. Then I was sitting in a sales meeting a few months later and the chief revenue officer stood up there and said, "this is one of the things that's really working in our company. Our brand is making our sales process move faster." There's some direct result. I can see that. I was also equally proud of some of the work I did with Greentown Labs, spending a couple of years launching them into the market and getting them going from a place of sitting empty, really, to something that became very much part of the fabric of the clean tech landscape, certainly in Boston and began to emerge as we were wrapping up that work emerged around the country. They're now in Houston. And a lot of the branding and the concepts that we laid out for them, they still use today. You know, one of the things I remember we talked about early on was we were debating how do we talk about their tenants, right? Because they were charging rent. How do they talk about tenants? And we were like, "Well, if we call them member companies and we give them a badge, that's going to help our SEO." And they still talk about member companies and alumni companies and that sort of thing as part of their language. I was very proud of that work. It seems so small and minor, but it changes the nature of the way that you think about yourself. It changed nature of the way companies think about themselves within it. And then the work I did at N Squared was spectacular. Not only did we see the results and the people coming in, but one of my favorite projects was the Greenway Arts Project. We had this greenway that was really underutilized and we were looking at how do we drive awareness for the N Squared Innovation District and engage with the local community. And I synced up with Studios Without Walls to bring in sculpture. We had looked at a lot of different directions about how to do this. And we brought in this for two years, we brought in this the sculpture exhibit and not only did it get the neighborhood excited, but it completely changed the way the neighborhood looked at the center of its being where it had been looking at other areas. This was a neighborhood that didn't really have a good center of downtown. They began to look at that greenway as their center, which they hadn't before. And considering that there's a major development happening on the other side of that greenway, the fact that they changed the center of their site to that location will change long term, the way that that whole neighborhood sees itself. Mark: I think anybody who has listened to this podcast would know the answer to this question, but I'm going to ask it anyway. What do you think you can offer your next employer or client? Chuck: I certainly bring a breadth of understanding of how people think. Right? And be able to get into that conversation in a very interesting way. You know, there's the tactical: writing skills, etc., down the line. But there's certainly then the broad sweep of: "Who are we? How do we get that to market? How do we encourage people to know about us? How do we raise our awareness?" So I bring that kind of skill set. At the same time you know, I have a pretty solid track record of training people, so there's not only the ability to bring that out, but also build a team underneath me that can help execute on that and help grow that team and encourage that team and keep them engaged in storytelling. One of the things that I do take great pride in is the ability to tell that story and the ability to kind of turn that story outward. At Paytronix, I changed some things around to create what I called story- driven marketing, where we went and dug into the customer stories, figured out where those stories were, how those matched with our brand message and then move those into the various content components, the eBooks, the webinars, etc., blog posts, case studies, and pushed those out through our own marketing that we needed to get out for demand gen, but that also then fed the PR. So being able to create these systems that can run and can help build for the future is where my skill set is. And then, you need to build the infrastructure underneath it to maintain those long term. But certainly it's about: "How do you create a process that's going to continually benefit across multiple touch points?" So that's a lot of what I try to bring to the table. Mark: Well, Chuck, it was great chatting again. Always enjoy it. And I really hope this podcast helps you find your next great gig. Chuck: I appreciate it. I appreciate the time. Mark: I'm Mark Reed Edwards. Join me on the next Confessions of a Marketer.

In today's episode of Building Texas Business, I speak with Chuck Leblo, founder of Interact One. Chuck shares his entrepreneurial journey from working in the corporate world, where he was overwhelmed by paperwork, to starting his own business. He offers valuable lessons learned from launching a side business while employed and the critical decisions that helped him succeed. Chuck leaves us with wisdom on building effective teams and maintaining a balanced lifestyle as an entrepreneur. SHOW HIGHLIGHTS Chuck Leblo, the founder of Interact One, shares his journey from corporate America to entrepreneurship, detailing the reasons behind his transition, such as the overbearing workload in his corporate job. We highlight the importance of having a side gig while starting a business to ensure financial stability. He explains how his unique problem-solving skills were instrumental in the exponential growth of his business from a modest $14,000 to a whopping $140,000 a month. Chuck details his process of tackling a telecom company's issue of short duration calls and building a team of diverse fractionals to aid in problem-solving. He talks about the various challenges he faced as an entrepreneur, including the need to make decisions and pivot the business when necessary. We discuss the impact that COVID-19 had on his business and how he successfully managed to meet the new market needs. He emphasizes the importance of building a successful team of partners and fractionals and shares his experience in helping businesses navigate the remote working world. Chuck shares his experience of managing a large-scale door-to-door team in the deregulated electricity market in Texas and the challenges of the project. He emphasizes the importance of maintaining a healthy work-life balance, sharing his personal experience and strategies. Chuck advises entrepreneurs to treat everyone with respect, earn people's trust, and widen their network to succeed in business. LINKSShow Notes Previous Episodes About BoyarMiller GUESTS Chuck LebloAbout Chuck TRANSCRIPT (AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors) Chris: In this episode you will meet Chuck Leblo, founder of Interact One. Through Interact One, chuck helps business owners solve problems and stresses the importance of building trust with clients as the foundation to successfully growing your company. All right, chuck, I want to thank you for joining me here on Building Texas Business. It's great to have you on the show. Now it's a pleasure to be here. So I know you've got a business or two you're involved with now and maybe others you've had before. But let's just kind of start by you telling the listeners kind of a little bit about yourself and the company that you've got and what it's known for. Chuck: Well, I'm pretty boring story, but so Interact One. Really, we're known for being problem solvers right, and not the type of problem solvers like I need a guy whacked right. Chris: Yeah, we have to stop the recording right now. Chuck: Right, right right, so I can say use the money, you can be my legal counsel, right. So, but now we solve problems for businesses right, and we've been doing that for about 17, 18 years now. I've always been known as a natural problem solver, from the time of a kid all the way through the military, through my corporate days and into my business. So it was a natural, natural evolution for me to just basically start a company that solves problems. Chris: All right. So I guess you mentioned a lot of, I guess, background going back from your childhood and military service. What was the real inspiration for you to kind of becoming an entrepreneur and actually starting a business? Chuck: Well, so 20 years in corporate America I was. I started out as a problem solver on an engineering basis right In telecom and then I got into the business side and I solved business problems which were more to do with like profitability right. And one day I was sitting there and I looked around my office and I just saw stacks in the business 20 years ago, right, everything wasn't digitized then. So stacks and stacks of invoices and contracts and lease cost, routing guides and all of this kind of stuff and I realized I was wasting my life away just doing that, just spending all my time. I was heavily compensated for what I did. Most people would die to have the job, but I was just like I'm not spending time with my family, I'm working 20 hours, sometimes 20 hours a day, right, and I said enough is enough. So I started my. At that point, you know, I had the funds available and I started my own company. Now, unfortunately in retrospect, I started a company doing basically exactly the same thing that I was doing for the telecom companies. I was controlling profitability for helping other telecom companies do that and then helping fortune 1000 clients and government agencies do it. So so that was like my little step in entrepreneurship, because I was really doing the same thing, but just doing it on my own. Then, about five years later six years later is when I really said no, we got to go full tilt into just solving problems. I want to solve them for all types of businesses. So really it was just sitting there looking at all the boxes and just to press the heck out of me. Chris: Yeah, the guy sounds like you're in a situation where you lost your motivation and you had to kind of look introspectively to go. How can I regain the motivation and inspiration I had about what it is I did? Chuck: Yeah. Chris: I wasn't excited about it anymore. Yeah, so. So you step out on your own, whether it was kind of that in that first venture or the five year later, let's talk about that. I mean, what were some of the, the lessons you learned that you were like, oh, I wish I to someone would have told me this. Right, it's like I gotta imagine some things kind of hit you in the face and you had to learn to adapt really quick to now you know, owning your own show. Chuck: Yeah, so the first thing I learned was when I took that first step, right where I owned the company, doing exactly what I was doing before, and what I learned was one it's feast or famine out there, right, as a consultant. It was a. It was feast or famine. The second thing I learned was it's okay to keep your toe in the corporate pond, right. So what I would do is, during those types of famine, I would go get a little gig you know, part time gig help a company out to pay the bills. One of the examples is we did an analysis for state government where we looked at five years of their telecom bills going back. We got them about five million bucks back, okay. So we renegotiated all their contracts, saved them about three million dollars a year going forward. Wow, it took us two years to do that analysis and to start getting that money back and we were paid on a contingency basis. We got a percentage of what we got them back. So two years without money. So if I hadn't known at the time that it's okay, it's okay to be, it's okay to be a part time entrepreneur, and in most cases it's better to get your side gig going before you take a full time side, before you take that side gig full time yeah. Chris: Yeah, that's interesting perspective because I don't know that. I've heard people use that term before, but I think there's some truth to it about that. Okay to be a part time entrepreneur, to kind of get your legs underneath yeah. Chuck: Now most people think that they have a side gig and then that side gig becomes their new job. I looked at it as that, that my business was my job, that I looked at the corporate America side as the side gig. Chris: Yeah, okay. So so you get you kind of learn that lesson and you move forward. What were some of the things, when you look back, that you feel like were the decisions you made that kind of set the foundation for your future success Because anything right, you can use any analogy you want, but also you got to have a strong foundation to be able to build from Anything that comes to mind that you really look back on and are kind of proud of the early decisions you made, in the way you set things up. Chuck: I think that you have to choose your clients wisely, right? There's an old saying out there that if everyone's your potential customer, no one's a customer. Right, you have to and I'm listening up, because I'm not perfect in any means. When I first started, I started going just after telecom companies, and that because that was what I knew. I'd spent 20 years in telecom and I had to learn all other aspects if I wanted to do this. So, you know, I became an expert at digital marketing. I already knew operations from telecom. I already knew finance from telecom. Right technology, of course I knew that one. I really know a whole lot about HR or legal, but what I didn't know was marketing and sales. So I had to become an expert in that Right. And that was really the catalyst is when I went from just being a just knowing, just doing telecom companies to now specializing in really all types of businesses, but only particular size businesses. So I learned that I didn't want to do business with those big fortune 1000s anymore. The big electric providers right, those were our clients. Telecom companies, those were the state agencies, government agencies and things like that. I didn't want to deal in that arena anymore because I can impact a small business much more. Right, if I save a small business you know $100,000 a year or fix a problem that solves, that's worth $100,000 or $200,000, that's much more impactful than getting a state agency back $5 million because it's not real money to them anyway. Right, it's just taxpayer money. It's not like they're going to give it back to the taxpayers. They're going to find someplace else to spend it. Chris: Right, right. Well, I think there's some truth to what you're saying is, as you're starting out with the new business, it's very important to be really laser focused about who your customer is and stay kind of within those bounds and not start to chase every little thing that may come your way because it may not fit your skill set, it may not fit your purpose and it can be distracting. Chuck: It can be distracting and it'll give you, you know, doubt as to what you're doing, whether or not you're competent, right, and that'll kill you as an entrepreneur. When you start doubting yourself and doubting your abilities than others will. Chris: So we've talked a little bit about kind of getting started as you were kind of moving through the process. You've talked about kind of focusing in, I guess after about five years on really just being a problem solver. Let's talk maybe a little more detail about what are some of the things you're talking about when you say you know we solve problems. I know they can vary, but I'm just curious about some kind of specifics, to the extent you can share some specifics on that. Chuck: Sure. First of all, I always tell people is your problem worth at least $2,000? Don't be gonna do me with a problem, right? That's not worth something. I'm not doing it for free, so let me give you an example. So about a year and a half ago I got called by a customer of mine, a roofer, and he goes hey, I've got this company that I want to outsource my back office to and I need you to vet them. So that's a problem. I said, okay, fine, let me vet them for you. So I did that and they were a good company, right. And about six months later after that, I get a call from that company and as owner of the company, and she held up a little sticky note and it said hire Chuck. And I said what's that? She goes. When we had our conversation I know that I knew that I needed a Chuck and I said, okay, so how can I help you? And she goes listen, I've been in business for almost a year now. We're an outsourced VA virtual assistance company and we're just not really making. We're not growing fast enough. We're going to get about $14,000 a month in revenue. And I said okay, and I took a look into our organization and we started making some changes and first thing we did was we rebranded her as a business process outsourcing company instead of a virtual assistance company. Then we made some operational changes with her personnel, helped her grow and hire the right people, got all of her people certified in the softwares that they were using so they could truly be viewed as an expert instead of just a virtual assistant. In less than a year they went from $14,000 a month revenue to $140,000 a month in revenue. Okay, just changes that. We did Another company, a telecom company, swiss telecom, a telecom company right, they were getting a lot of short duration calls that they were being billed for and they didn't know what the problem was. So we've got a problem. So we did an analysis of tens of millions of TCAP messages which are getting technical here in SS7. It's like a phone record, but it's the digital version of it, right and we found that what was happening was, down the line, one of the providers that they were connecting to, because, remember, you go through several switches. You call them the US, it might go here. Anyway, one of those switches was given back what's called false answer supervision, before the call was ever answered. So that's why they're having short duration calls. People would call, it would ring nine, 10 times, no one would answer and they'd hang up but it was showing it's answered. So we fixed that problem. So really, it's any type of problem. It's like I want to open a new location, okay, so one of the things that we do in our LinkedIn reach out, that we do how we find clients is we just ask people what their problem is and we tell them everyone. We tell them how we would solve the problem. One is what's the true problem and what's the real problem? Because a true problem or their problem might be I need more revenue. Okay, so what's the real problem? Or is the real problem you need more revenue because your costs are too high, because if your costs are too high and we bring in more revenue, we put you out of business because you're selling low cost, right? Is it because you're marketing? Is it because you just don't have the right staff in place? So we do that analysis and take them through that and either fix it for them and hand it back to them or, once it's corrected, we can monitor on an ongoing basis. Chris: So when you do these projects, you assume you're not just a one man show. You've got a team working with you, and how have you gone about, I guess, building that team around you to make sure you have the right people? Chuck: So what I? Did is listen. So experience is important, diversity is important right, and diversity from the sense of people with different backgrounds are going to have different ways that they interpret a problem and the corrective action that they would find for that right. So although I'm the chief strategist for the company, I don't really go by the title CEO, but I'm CEO and chief strategist. I'm more of a strategy kind of guy, so I do handle a lot of the problems. Chris: When you know, name of the companies interact one. Chuck: You're going to interact with me, right? In most cases, but what we did is we wanted to find people like me, because I don't know everything that lets surround yourself with people smarter than you, right? So we go out and we find fractional people just like me, right? Possibly someone that's got a full-time job, they are a CEO of a company or they're an entrepreneur that own their own company or they're an accountant, right? So we have a lot of people that are working with us for finance issues, it professionals, right, and we've built a network of these people to where we hold all of their information so that when a problem comes in, we have three or four or five in some cases, 10 people that we can send that problem to and see what their thoughts are on it and then engage that person the one that we want to engage with to help us solve that. And then we do the program management or the program project management of that and we have a lot of employees, but we have a lot of fractionals working for us. Chris: Okay, that's an interesting model. I mean it makes sense, given what you're doing, and then you can kind of pick the right person for the issue at hand, Absolutely. So we were talking a little bit earlier and I know you know we talked about challenges you faced and being an entrepreneur and I just want you know, maybe share, some of the challenges you've gone through and how that's impacted the business or changed what you've done. From you know, from a, I guess, a business strategy. Chuck: Well, I mean, if you're in business, you're always going to have challenges, right. So you know, starting from the very beginning, just being able to redirect yourself. You know don't beat a dead horse, redirect, you know, make a decision one way or the other lead, follow. Get out of the way all those little sayings they say is you know, do that? Make decisions. Some of the you know. The first one was switching from being just strictly telecom to really handling smaller businesses. That was one. Then we diversified into where we had our own public relations firm because a lot of companies, what they were, what we found is a lot of companies have an issue with actually people knowing who they were right. So we created that company and being able to to in the economy, be able to utilize, you know, both companies right. Listen when very small businesses, they can't afford a lot sometimes but they can afford a little bit and that's like the PR company. One of the challenges that we had with that diversification is when COVID hit. Right, we were leading up into COVID. We were spending probably 90% well, 70% of our business was from a revenue perspective, was coming from the PR firm and these are small clients paying $395, $500 a month, right, for our PR services. And the Interact One, the more consulting, the high dollar ones, was really just me at that time, okay, and when COVID hit, basically all those customers call me hey, we don't know what's going on. We've got to stop and we've let everyone out of their contracts, for sure, but we lost about 90% of that business, and at the time I really didn't know what I was. Yeah, it was a very big hit and they really know what to do. But then I started thinking well, people really have problems now. Right, they've got problems that need solved. A lot of problems were, you know, during COVID is. You know, how do we maintain a remote workforce? How do we keep our store open but just have deliveries? How do we keep our employees engaged out? You know, how do we give our customers engaged? How do we transfer our shop from totally brick and mortar to an online right? So it was a godsend for me as far as building back up or getting more involved in the Interact One business. But because if I didn't have that, I don't know where I'd be today. I'd probably be dipping my toe back in the corporate pond again, right, right, but you've got to be able to. Chris: Yeah, the ability to, I guess you know, kind of pivot when necessary and kind of keep going is critical, yeah, For an entrepreneur especially small business owner Yep. What other? I guess, excuse me, what other advice when you think about how you interact with your? You know your partners, your kind of your, these, maybe these what I would call maybe alliances you have with other fractionals. But maybe there are other type of partners you used to keep your business successful, whether that's you know banking relationships, you know accounting, legal. What are some advice you have on that, on you know best practices to make sure you kind of surround yourself with that kind of strong team that you need to kind of have a stable business. Chuck: Yeah. So, listen, a lot of small businesses out there, right, they try to do it all themselves, right and don't. Right, there are professionals out there that can help you and even if you want to build everything in house, you know, make sure that you know, like you said, have a strong relationship with a banker, a financial person, you know, some sort of business coach maybe to help you do things. What I do is I just try to treat everyone with respect and, as a consultant, sometimes we especially when we're solving problems, right, I can't, someone can't say something to me and me go well, crap, how stupid are you? Right, you got to treat that business owner with respect and sometimes, if they're making boneheaded decisions, there's a little bit of dance involved in it. Right, so be respectful and earn people's trust and with, whether it's your business partners like me, you know all the other C level professionals that I work with, right, because most of the people that we bring on as our partner or our hybrid or partner or fractional whatever you want to call it consultants that we lean on in areas that we don't have the expertise, they're all C level, okay, so you've got to be respectful of them and trust their decision. Now we have a leave at them. First, right, trust just isn't given. But you know, be respectful and widen your network. Right, you're only as good as the people that you're surrounded by. Chris: Yeah, no, that's for sure. And they're a reflection of you, right? If you're bringing them in, whether that's an employee and you're putting them on a project or a consultant, and you're bringing them in, whoever that client is sees them as a reflection of you. So it's important to make sure they align, you know, with your fundamental values, absolutely, absolutely so in what I think you referred to this a minute ago, when you're talking about certain problems, you've been helping people solve anything you've seen in the last couple of years where you've been involved and maybe in certain projects and develop some. I don't know if there are best practices, but I'm thinking about work, the work remote world we're in and helping companies kind of navigate to a place that can work for the business, to remain profitable but also allow for some of that flexibility. Anything you can share on that regard. Trust Right. Chuck: So one of the biggest problems Just in case. Chris: I didn't hear that clearly. I want to make sure the audio is clear. You said trust. Chuck: That's what I'm talking about Trust, right, that's my text is coming out Trust. So what happens? And it's instilled a sin from the very beginning? Oh, 40 hours a week, and this is your rate, right? And how do I know that my people are working if they're not here? And I can see what's going on behind the desk? And my answer to them is the work being done. Right, is the work being done? And you, as a manager this is what I tell the business owner you, as a manager, need to make sure that you're giving them the work that can be done in the time period that you want it done in, right? You know, if you give someone three things to do and they can do it in four hours instead of eight hours, well, those are the things you needed them to do and they did it. So why shouldn't they get paid what you would have paid them, which was eight hours, okay, but then again, if you don't have your finger on it to where you know how long it takes them to do something, then that's on you, that's not on them. And if you give them too much and they're not getting it all done, then that's when you've got to start looking into it. Am I giving them too much Right. Chris: So the main thing with work remote. Chuck: That I tell, like I said I tell people is trust your people Trust, trust yourself that you made the right decision when you hired them, right, or it's your fault anyway, and then trust the fact that they're working. I've seen businesses that are like well, they've got to log into this system and stay logged in. Okay, well, they could be logging in while they're taking a nap. That doesn't mean that they're doing the work. Well, you know, we make them have a zoom open so that at any time we can look and see if they're working. I said you know I would quit. I don't, I'm going to do the work, but if you're insisting on having a camera on me making sure that I'm doing work all the time, then it's not a right fit. Right, there has to be trust. Chris: Yeah, you're right. I mean I think you know, in addition to trust, I think what I've seen and I think you're saying this as well is you got to communicate clearly what the expectations are Right. So when you talk about these assignments, I mean you know not only is the word getting done, is it getting done timely and efficiently and correctly Right, and if so, then you know you're on to something. And if not, then you got to correct that from a work performance standpoint and be able to say look, this is what the assignment was, this is what the deadline was, and if it didn't meet the standards, be able to explain why. And then figure out what's the right corrective action from there. Chuck: Yeah, expectations are everything and then being able to you know, another thing you do is get buy in from that remote worker you know how, what can you do, how much can you do it? You know, it's like my telecom days, the old telecom days. You had what was called an occupancy rate, so you had a call center where people are answering the call and then, oh, I want 100% occupancy, which that meant that 100% of the time that people were on the phone. And it's not possible, right, even the best call centers run at 60 to 65% occupancy, right, and you got to realize the way your people are too. If you're paying them for eight hours, you know what you'll be good, you're doing really good if you're getting six hours of real work out of them. Because you got to stop and think sometimes, as, as American culture, we really, I guess we really think that our employee employees owe us when really we owe them. Chris: Yeah, that's a good point. So let's talk a little bit just about you know, maybe on your personal leadership style. How would you describe your leadership style? And first there, and then you know how do you work with some of your clients. Maybe help them with their leadership style when those opportunities present themselves. Chuck: Well, I think that in the business that I'm in, I have to be collaborative, right, you can't make all the decisions and do everything yourself, and really that's what business owners have to do all the time telling them that you're, you know, you're micromanaging your people, you know. Give them some room to breathe, let them have some creativity, let them help make decisions. Don't just tell them what to do, ask them what needs to be done, and that's kind of my leadership style, right. But then I always go back to problem solving. So I want to know what the real problem is, what, not just the problem, the problem, you think the perceived problem, but what is the real problem and how can we correct this with any decision that's made? Chris: Yeah, so kind of we talked a little bit about this maybe. But I want to ask you a maybe different way when you think about yourself and your career, any kind of setbacks that you've encountered, that you look back and go man, that was a tough time, or I made a boneheaded decision or whatever, but what I learned from it benefited me so much that I can look back and be grateful for that experience. Anything come to mind for there that you can share? Chuck: Yeah, Back when I kind of first started the Interact One on the marketing side, when I was learning marketing, I had a company come to me and it was like we want you to help us acquire more customers. You remember back when deregulation happened on electricity in Texas. Chris:So we started working. Chuck: The problem and the problem that we gave them was you need to have a door-to-door team that needs to be trained this way and done this way and do all this kind of stuff. And they said, okay, great, do it for us. And 286 people later right, five locations across the state of Texas, a lot of money, Thank you, but it wasn't worth it and it almost made me to where I didn't want to even continue. Right, it was so stressful having that many people that are working on a commission-only basis right, Selling electricity, training them, looking at Perf and all of that kind of stuff. So it was very profitable and it's one of the things that, if I had my if I go back in time, that's maybe one thing that I would have changed is I wouldn't have went down that path that took so much energy and took three years of my life to do that. I could have done much greater things. Chris: I believe, interesting. So that kind of segues well into the next question I want to ask you and that is how do you go about maintaining you know there's all the. You know the typical word is work-life balance, and I'm kind of a believer and I had some other guests on the podcast and I agree with this is more about work-life integration than how do you manage both, because you have work and you have your personal life and how do you integrate those so you can show up effectively in both? What are some of the things that you do to try to make that happen in your life? Chuck: I take naps. Chris: I love it. Chuck: I'm a big proponent of taking naps, but really OK. So I've got, maybe, a different viewpoint, because I did the corporate America gig for 20 years and I had my business, grew it very big, then pulled it back small again and I work because I want to work. There is no work-life balance. I have life and I work when I want to work. And if I want to work five hours this week, that's what I work this week. If I want to take a week off, I take a week, and I know it's different for a lot of entrepreneurs, you know. But I'm entering the, the, the twilight state. I don't look at that. I'm pretty dang old, right, and I think that for the younger people starting out, or you know, mid-mid-age, right it's important, right? Don't do what I did in the first 20 years of my career, where all I did was work and I saw my kids on weekends, which initially eventually led to a divorce, which meant that I only saw them every other weekend, right? Yeah, 14 years ago I started over again. Wonderful woman, she keeps me grounded and she is my life, makes me want to be a better man, and we started a new family, so that helps out too. So I've got an eight year old son now, right, and I've got an eight year old granddaughter and I've got an eight year old grandson right. Oh, wow, yeah. So it gives you the. It's allowing me to have a second chance with that and I'm not going to fail it. So, yeah, I don't necessarily know how you do it, whether it's working out or yoga. This is the one of the one of the people in the podcast. They were doing yoga and all this kind of stuff. I know that you have to have something that stimulates your brain at all points in time. I've got an eight year old that does that I've got. You've got to have something that exercises your body. I've got an eight year old that does that. I help coaches lacrosse team and the day after practices I can barely walk. So I don't know if I have a great answer for it. I know it's important, but I'm not there anymore. I just I work because I want to work. Chris: Yeah, no, I work great hours. I think what I love there. Everyone has a little different take on it because, look, everyone's situation is different and so you've got to get to figure out what works in your ecosystem and your environment, and that includes, right, the family and the business and the career and all those things, and those things can change over time. Chuck: There's another camp. Chris: All right. So yeah, I appreciate all this has been really good stuff. I'm going to turn it a little bit to the lighter side and ask you what was your first job? Like real job or entrepreneurial job? No, that real job, I mean I don't know, like in junior high you had to pay for route, or yeah. No, I didn't, I didn't do the paper route. Chuck: So my for my, as I was raised by a single mom, right, we didn't have anything. She was a waitress. So I went into the family business and I bust tables and lost dishes at a restaurant. Chris: That will humble you really quick right, make you hungry, and not just hungry to say I want something different. Chuck: Yeah, I know that I want. I always knew that I wanted to have something more than what I had growing up. Chris: I know you said you listened to some of the prior podcast episodes, so I know you're ready for this one Tex-Mex or barbecue. Chuck: Well, it depends where right Sure, you know. So I do my own barbecue. Okay, so if I'm eating out someplace, I don't necessarily do Tex-Mex very well, except for guacamole I'm a great guacamole. But so I would say, if I'm eating out, it's a text. I eat more Tex-Mex than barbecue, but I enjoy barbecue. Chris: Ma'am, I may have to see if you can ship me some of yours and I bet it's pretty good. Yeah, I make some pretty good barbecue. I love. The honest answer there was. It depends where, because so many of us have. Well, if it's, you know, if it's this that I'm hungry for, then it might be this barbecue joint or this different Tex-Mex place. So I have to share. I just saw and I share with my girls, you know the L L L L Roya in Austin in their signs. There, there was, I saw a picture of this. One says Texan a person who chooses a restaurant based on their chips and salsa. Chuck: You know that's very true, Isn't that true? Chris: What we need is a. Chuck: Tex-Mex barbecue. Chris: Yeah, but we have some of that here in Houston. We have some places that are using like brisket in their tacos and things, so it is. Chuck: They have Korean barbecue. Right, they have Korean barbecue, so why not? You know Tex-Mex barbecue and you know have more. Of. You know the beans would be more of the barbecue style beans with some jalapenos in there. So I put jalapenos in everything. So everything is Tex-Mex. Chris: I like it. Well, you and I may have to get offline and we may come up with a new restaurant concept here. Chuck: Yeah, so okay, last question. This one's out of the menu, yeah. Chris: Everything's out of the menu. Yes. Last question is, if you could take a 30-day sabbatical or you just get away, where would you go and what would you do? Chuck: Well. So sabbatical means something different, right, and getting yourself in a different thing. So I like, at least twice a year, we go to the Smoky Mountains, which is my, that's my spot, right. When I first went to the Smoky Mountains, I was like this is where I belong, right. But a sabbatical might be a little bit different, and I think it would be really cool to go over to Africa and do a photo safari. I don't want to shoot the animals anymore. I did that growing up. I don't need to do it anymore, but to get them on camera and to live in the camps and stuff like that would just be. That'd be something to be really cool, yeah. Chris: It's a bucket list item for sure. Yeah, that's great. Chuck: Well, Chuck, I want to thank you again for taking the time. Chris: come on the show and share your story. I love hearing kind of the career you've had and the way you evolved and I love this the way you're helping companies solve big problems, so really appreciate it. Chuck: Well, I appreciate you having me. It was fun. Chris: All right, we're going to stop the recording there. Let me see if I can actually do that. Hmm, no, here we go. I'm not the host, it won't love me, but they know where we stopped, so hey. I was talking, I talk enough. No, you did great. Look, we, you know I was watching our timer. Yeah, we were. We probably stopped the recording in minute 3435 and 30 to 40 minutes is our goal, so we were right in the sweet spot. And yeah, and it always goes so fast because you're just having a conversation and I think everyone gets amazed that I can't believe it went that well. We were actually talking for that long, but yeah. Chuck: In my business I don't talk, I listen. So it's hard for me to fathom that I'm. You know, when I listen like when I do a conference call with a client I one of the people you had said they use order. We use order also and it shows you the stats on how long each person talked and I always make sure and always tell the other people that make sure that the client's talking more. Chris: Yeah, what you're talking, you know. Chuck: you look at the the the recap and it says Chuck talked for 36 out of 60 minutes. Well, that's too much, Right? Chuck needs to talk for eight minutes out of an hour and let the customer talk. Chris: That's good, that was good. Chuck: I look forward to seeing the seeing the episode. Chris: Absolutely, we'll be back in touch. I don't know. So, josie, with my team and Mackenzie they're my marketing kind of folks and I can't remember the name I know you kind of came through, a group that was, you know, helps you book these things, yeah, thanks. We want a headshot, kind of thing and all that. Chuck: They're having great the ride up on me. All that kind of stuff yeah. Chris: Well then, what we'll do? We'll give you a little. Obviously, there'll be some advanced warning once we get it all packaged up and we have a date certain that we're going to release it, and we'll get it all to you and your people, and then it'll be, it'll hit the presses. Chuck: So also, and the next time I'm in Houston I'll look you guys up and we do lunch or something. Chris: Please do. I would love that Love to go grab some barbecue. Yeah, thank you All right man, I talk to you later. Enjoy the rest of your day. Bye, bye. Special Guest: Chuck Leblo.

Jack joins host Chuck Randolph to discuss:How his time in the Marines has influenced his leadership style.The evolution in training for crisis response in high-risk environments.How to understand the needs of the customer or protectee and build a strategy around it.The best ways to add value in a crisis (hint: it's not a knee-jerk reaction).Key takeaways:[12:29] Jack Stradley: The main thing I realized when I was COO of an organization was that security has so many different definitions. I worked with a company that did strictly bomb blast mitigation on buildings and then I had a bunch of EP guys that ran around with surveillance kits who thought about motorcade tactics — and those two people never talked to each other. One of the things the Marine Corps taught me was the “combined arms team.” You know that you don't fight in a silo — you bring your artillery, logistics, and your air power and you all work seamlessly together.[14:01] Jack Stradley: Today there are tremendously talented people with skills who apply those skills to do security or protection or analysis. Is really kind of easy. It's bringing all the pieces together and then showing value — making people understand the value because security for security's sake is not necessarily valuable. Security is when you can quantify or articulate its value.[14:50] Jack Stradley: It's important to remember the risk and the reward for what you're doing and there are no perfect solutions. You know you can't live inside Fort Knox and never leave. That's not a realistic approach so there are always trade-offs. There's always a risk tolerance that has to be understood. That's the ongoing struggle because risk tolerance for each one of us is different. [24:35] Chuck: You're involved when many things go south for organizations. How do you help organizations or what's your recommendation for maintaining a presence of mind? [25:23] Jack Stradley: I think that most people react in a crisis and that's the last thing you want to do. You want to take a beat — now that beat can be a microsecond but you take a beat and you evaluate. You look, you listen, you think, then you act — act deliberately, don't react.Before you have to commit to a course of action and you should take as long as you have but no longer to evaluate things and then make a conscious decision and then continue to evaluate because if it's not working it's maybe time to change course.[31:10] Jack Stradley: We are inundated with information and that's not a revelation to anyone out there. The hard part is to just you know, be able to see through the noise in the chatter and try and get to the fundamentals in the foundation. Understand — what does this mean to me and how does this affect me and my plans? That's part of what we try to do for people is help them with that.

Dr. Wheat joins host Chuck Randolph to discuss:The game-changing role of red teaming in organizations and how, through alternate analysis and critical thinking, to think from the perspective of the attacker.How diverse thinking results in better decisions and aids in the elimination of biases.Where analysts can start when implementing a red teaming strategy.The role of red teaming in helping security teams partner with business leaders to help their organizations thrive.Key takeaways from the episode:[03:04] Treston Wheat: Critical thinking is fundamental to the ability to check assumptions the ability to be objective and separate the person from the analysis. The willingness to question dominant ideas (is a key element to red teaming). So everything that made me a really bad academic actually made me a really good red teamer.[03:44] Treston Wheat: We do something we call poison circles where we basically just come up with ways to attack people. Which sounds a little dark but is very very useful. Because then we have to think through the threat actors and what's their motivation and if they're motivated by — what kind of TTP do they use? How would they behave in a violent situation? How would they behave if they're trying to steal intellectual property?[06:05] Treston Wheat: My job is doing the research on how a left-wing terrorist would behave differently than a right-wing terrorist because most people when they look at terrorism, they say terrorism is terrorism. They actually all have very different targeting patterns.[08:32] Chuck: If you're you're working on an objective and you want to understand what is the potential threat actors' activity or actions … How do you start this process? Where does critical thinking start? Walk me through your protocol.[09:01] Treston Wheat: So the way I start with a threat actor...You go to what they actually say about themselves, because too often in analysis we don't really believe what people tell us even though they're telling us the truth.[12:56] Treston Wheat: And that's why you need people to come in. It's why diversity of thought is so important for a red team. You need people who actually see the world differently than you do rather than all of us coming from the military or all of us coming from Academia — breaking up groupthink. One of the most important parts of red teaming and acknowledging the bias and heuristics.[15:14] Chuck: We could be talking about a business function. We could be talking about terrorism. We could be talking about an event — multiple things — to say look I just need someone to give me an alternative thought on this because, at the end of the day, we want to enable business decision makers with options or courses of action that have some facts around them so they can make a decision.[15:38] Treston Wheat: Which is the entire point of Intel analysis and red teaming is to help our business leaders in particular because we do this for the private sector to make better decisions so that their business thrives.[21:28] Chuck: You know people are listening right now and thinking this is fascinating I need to use this more in my organization I'm a leader — I'm a team leader, or I'm an analyst where do I start?[21:48] Treston Wheat: So I think there are two key ways for people to start who don't do analysis regularly and for an analyst I would say something a little bit different. But if you're not used to doing this number one start applying it to your own life. So anytime you make a decision, walk through your process — the entire process. I recommend writing it down because I just think it's always helpful. What is my assumption in this decision? Why did I perceive what this person said or the information I took in that way?Number two I believe in the use of fiction — reading novels and watching movies and then analyzing them because it gives you an entire plot wrapped up. It's a very useful technique to read novels and watch movies and then analyze them. You don't just passively consume them.Want to hear more? Listen to the full episode here.

In today's part two of two Chuck is talking once again to Mike Nunez about his tips for being a successful buyer. We first heard about Mike's nine tips for a successful acquisition, and today he delves into the types of things he looks for in a business he is considering for purchase. We're also diving deep into one tip that Mike shared on part one of this two-part series. Finally, Mike also shares some great efficiency tools he's loving these days. Episode Highlights: What Mike looks for when buying a business. What he brings to the business with his own expertise. Examples of things that stand out to Mike in a listing. Advertising account criteria he checks for in a potential new business. Goals and intentions he has and the opportunities he looks for when on the hunt for a business. The importance of keeping criteria lists. Tips for content sites looking for affiliates. Certain synergies to look for in a search. Lessons Mike has learned through his acquisitions. Tools Mike is using and recommending these days. Transcription: Mark: Chuck in the last podcast episode that we had we had Mike Nuñez on. He offered nine very actionable tips on how to be a very good buyer; how to be a buyer that can win deals by having the right disposition. And I know you guys talked; you guys are friends, you live close to each other there in Florida and all that. So you guys are friends and naturally, your conversations are long but also Mike's got a ton of content to share with us and you guys got into a second episode. What can we expect from the second episode with Mike Nuñez? Chuck: Yeah, so let's start off by saying if you haven't watched the first one or listen to it make sure you do because it kind of leads into this. On this one, we talked about what are the types of things that he's looking for as a buyer and you should be able to get some stuff out of that to help you figure out maybe some ideas for the types of things you're looking for. We also talked about; there was like one tip that we gave that he gave us somebody at Rhodium conference a year or two ago and it gave that guy a 25% boost in his revenue like overnight. So that was a nice little take away there and then at the end of the call, one of the things I always like to do is just ask for any special tools or things that he uses so he gives us a list of additional tools he uses so a pretty little bonus at the end. Mark: Fantastic. Mike is a great guy. I'm super glad that he was able to come back on the podcast. Let's get right into it. Chuck: All right welcome back everybody this is Chuck Mullins here with Quiet Light Brokerage and this is part two of a two-part segment with Mike Nuñez. Welcome, Mike; welcome back. Mike: Thank you, Chuck. Thanks for being accepting of my long-windedness. Chuck: No, I think we had a lot of great stuff in the last one. If anybody didn't get a chance to watch it you might want to go back and watch that one first. What did we end up on; nine super-secret tips? Mike: They go to 9, yeah 9 super-secrets. Chuck: 8 or 9 super-secret tips of how to be a great buyer which Mike Nuñez is a great buyer. Now we wanted to segway in and Mike wanted to make sure that everybody know that he's not wearing, or he is wearing the same suit but only because we're recording these back to back because the last one went pretty long. So you still look great Mike. For anybody who didn't watch the last one, Mike purchased a custom-tailored suit business from us so this is probably why he's wearing the suit because I've never seen him wear a suit before he had purchased that business. So he's definitely stepped up his wardrobe game since then. So today we wanted to talk about what you're looking for when you buy a business and maybe some of the lessons you've learned along the way. So again maybe let's start off; before we jump into that just give a brief introduction for anybody who didn't watch the first part of the series about you. Mike: Well, so I think it's important if you're listening to this one you probably should listen to the first one first because it does set up a lot of the things that we're going to talk about here. But for those that just don't listen, I've been in internet marketing for about 20 years now. I spent most of it working for an agency or owning an agency. I worked for Google for four years in their paid, search division. And so today I own a company called AffiliateManager.com that manages affiliate programs as well as the performance company which manages paid search for companies as well. So that's the super brief synopsis. Chuck: Perfect. So let's jump into what is it that you look for when you're buying a business? Always people come to me and they; Chuck what kind of business should I buy? And I say okay well what are your interests, what are you good at? So I think you probably you're looking…well, let me just let you tell what are you looking for. Mike: Yeah, so I think it's important to say what I look for or what we look for; so I do have a pretty solid team around me but what we look for is going to be very different than what somebody else looks for. And so please take that with a grain of salt; everything that I'm going to say today and I think is important for everyone to just recognize, just be self-aware what is it that you are incredibly good at? If you're good at sales go find a company that has an incredible product and but they're bad at sales and you plug yourself in and you now have an incredible business overall. Or if you're fantastic at operations go find a company that's selling like crazy but their operations just can't keep up with all the offers and plug yourself in there and that's going to work. I like to say that real opportunity is at the intersection of two different expertise or two different types of expertise. So for me, it's online business and online marketing and I'm not so great at everything else. So I'm not an operations person, I'm not a finance person so I don't look for companies that are lacking in those areas. I look for companies that are strong in those areas and that are; I don't want to say lacking because I think that's potentially disrespectful to either the people that I purchased businesses from or will in the future but it's more where I see opportunity where they wouldn't know unless they worked at Google for several years or they wouldn't know unless they've been in online marketing for 20 years or they never had an affiliate program. They never thought about it and we're incredible at it. So plugging what we are really good at into things that maybe they've tried that they're above average at because you have to be above average if you're going to own an online business but they've spread themselves so thin that they couldn't be an expert at just one thing. Another nice side effect that I've seen with buying these businesses, some of the previous owners they just worked so long and hard in the business that when you're so down in the weeds like that it's hard to pull yourself out and kind of take a 40,000-foot view picture. When acquiring a company it's almost a natural thing that happens along the way and you start to say okay let me take a step back and look at this not so closely; so close I can't tell exactly what this is and what's going on. And then as you start to peel that back and say okay this is something that the previous owner did, is this something that I need to take over, do I bring the value? The previous owner either maybe they enjoyed it, maybe they liked it, or maybe they were really good at it but I'm not and so the answer there is who else within the company can take that over. And I got to say that's probably one of the biggest benefits of purchasing an online company not only for the buyer but for the seller that they're able to peel themselves out and all the while that's the transition of okay these are the daily duties that this person does and this is who can take that over. So the new buyer; so myself as an example can go focus on what we're good at. So with that caveat to what it is that you're asking some of the things that I look for and I think just another quick note on this; this is an ever-evolving list, just because I've written this today doesn't mean that there's not more to come. Every time we go through a business or every time actually we have a call we run into an issue with the current business. I say okay that sounds like an opportunity that when we purchase the next business that we need to look at and say can we help there. So some of these are super simple and most listeners might say oh well that that's kind of common sense. Well, it's not always common sense. Somebody on this call is going to really or somebody listening to this podcast is going to really benefit from it but I listed because it's things that I want to make sure that I go and check every time that we're looking at a business. So, for example, we are like I said really good at online marketing specifically affiliate marketing and paid search. So we'll go look do they have an affiliate program? Are they overpaying? Are they not paying out commission based off of the influence that each affiliate had on that actual transaction? It's actually super interesting to see how much people overpay for things. And even more interesting to see when they're underpaying affiliate. So for example affiliates, they are business just like you, just like me and they want to maximize their revenue for their inventory. A lot of people get stuck and they look oh my competitor pays 5% commission, that's what I'm going to go pay. But a really good affiliate is equivalent to an upper-funnel page search keyword. And if you're paying a two to one for an upper funnel page search keyword; let's use my custom suit business, if I'm willing to get a two to one for the keyword custom suits or men's custom suits, if I'm willing to take a two to one return on ad spend for that I should be willing to pay an affiliate who is upper funnel; who's educating customers about me, I should be willing to pay them a 50% commission because they're upper funnel. Chuck: Alright so that makes a lot of sense to use something that you do on a day to day basis with your main business to look to acquire a company. So can you give some examples of specifically what something you might look for is? Mike: Sure. I'll give two examples one of where we succeeded at this and one where we failed but then you use that failure to learn and regroup. So the first business that we acquired we identified that there was a significant amount of overspent. It wasn't the previous owner's fault. They had hired an agency who was just; they were doing good. I would give them a six out of 10. But within 20, 30 minutes we can evaluate a Google Ads account and say we can save this account 10, $15,000 a month. Chuck: And you were talking about like an Ad Words account as opposed to affiliate stuff? Mike: Correct. Yeah, a Google Ads account that maybe this ad, the Google Ads accounts is spending 50, 60, $70,000 a month and if we can look in there and say we can save 10, 15, 20,000 on this and still get the same level of sales based off of our expertise we're adding 1 to $200,000 straight to the bottom line; straight to EBITDA and we did exactly that. We actually just finished reviewing January through October and we actually generated more sales than the same period last year and we spent I think it was $160,000 less to do so in that period. Chuck: It kind of goes against the thought of ad expenses are going up, right? There's more and more competition every day for ads so people think that but yet you're able to cut ad spend and make more money with it. Mike: That's 100% correct. You have to know what you're doing. There are very, very few good paid search companies out there. And I know because I used to work with a lot of them when I was at Google. Kevin who's on our team; his job was to go out and train agencies on how to appropriately use Google Ad Words. Pat who's the mastermind on our team has been doing Google paid search since Yahoo or as Yahoo started before Google was in existence. So it's just such a level of expertise that we have on our team overall that we can go and then apply and get these level of savings overall. And again it's straight to the bottom line and we take that money; the first acquisition was partly done via an SBA loan and the savings that we've got doesn't quite cover the SBA loan but it's about 75% of it. It's almost like we acquired the company for the price of the down payment and a much smaller SBA loan so to speak. So that's got to be our number one criteria; same thing with an affiliate program again with the first acquisition they weren't doing attribution based commissioning. It was a smaller effect on the overall business. We probably saved somewhere between 30 and 40,000 for the entire year on that one. So it's again a much smaller effect but that's a part-time person. That's an initiative that we can go fund now because we're saving 30 to 40 grand that we wouldn't have to spend otherwise. Chuck: So let's call out specifically there what it is you're looking for. So Mike looks at a company, requests access to their ad account, and then Mike looks for what? Mike: So in their ad account I'm looking at are they using negative keywords appropriately, what bidding algorithm are they using on Google, what matching types are they using, are they using segmentation correctly. And this is all super 40,000-foot level things but as Pat, our behind the scenes masterminds like to say, a poorly run paid search program is typically death by a thousand paper cuts. It's not one of these things. It's a thousand of these things that we meticulously go and identify, find, correct, and improve. Chuck: Alright so you will go into an account, you see all these things and they're doing everything right does that mean okay it's a great company I'm not looking to buy this one; like are you specifically, if there's not something you can fix you're not going to acquire it? Mike: Yeah, that's a fun question. The good news is for me at least I've never seen one. That's good. And to be fair I've seen; when we are getting an RFPN for the agency business I've seen two or three that were so well run that we tell them we can't help, they're doing an amazing job. You're going to look to us for growth in three or four months and we're not going to deliver because your current company is doing fantastic so don't leave them. But when acquiring a business and the research that I do before making an offer I have not yet come across that. If that were the case yes it's not a kiss of death but it is a factor in whether or not we feel like we should purchase the business because we know that there's so many out there that do it so poorly. Investing; I know I'm not teaching anybody on the call anything new with this but investing is where's the next best place to spend your dollar? And if they're doing a bad job with paid search that's a good place for me to spend my dollar because I know we can fix that. If they're doing an incredible job well there's probably a better place for me to go spend my dollar. Chuck: Sure. And I don't think it's a negative thing for you to say nope I'm just going to move on to the next one they're doing everything right. Like you're looking for specific things in order to want to acquire and like you said you've only got so many dollars to spend. You need to place it where it's going to do the most good for you. And if somebody else is doing everything right like that's not your area of expertise to grow the business. Maybe again they're not doing sales well and that's not what you're specifically looking at so sales is where the person that is going to end up ultimately acquiring the business is good at. And there's also people who maybe they don't have necessarily an expertise at something and they're just looking for an overall good run business that can keep chugging away for the years to come. And that's not a negative like just because you don't have some really specialized thing that you're good it doesn't mean that buying a business would necessarily be a bad idea for you. Mike: Yeah it's one of those things begin with the end in mind, right? And if the if your end goal is that you want a super stable business but it's not going to grow because everything is so well optimized and you're willing to pay the same multiple for it and you just want to kind of run that business day to day as is without expectation of growth then that's it. And there are people that want that. I would even consider a business like that if it was strictly almost a lifestyle business. But the businesses that we're buying; our goal, our intention is to take this 15 million dollar company and turn it into a 25, 50, 100 million dollar company and so there has to be opportunity when we're purchasing and the bigger the opportunity that we identify that we can do so fairly quickly with what we have the more we're willing to pay for it and the more we're willing to compete for it overall. Chuck: So we were talking recently we had lunch and you said that you recently discovered something with one of your businesses that was something you know I'm going to start looking for that and it revolved around shipping. Do you remember what we were talking about? Mike: Oh yes I have it. It's on my list. And that's funny and that's yet another reason to have a list right, right? Chuck: Right. Mike: And so as we're talking like; I know I'm not alone in this, right? I know you're like this Chuck. I'm sure you, the person listening to this right now is the same way. And I'll wake up in the middle of night and I feel like sometimes not thinking about things or telling yourself think about this in the back of my mind and you'll solve problems; like I'll get things out there just to solve them. I'll wake up in the middle and be like that's the answer to this and literally I'll roll over, I'll pick up my phone, and I'll just type a note to myself and say this is the answer and I'll go back to sleep. And the one that you're talking about is we have a warehouse for both of the business but the one that we're talking about now has a warehouse, a large warehouse; tens of thousands of square feet, I'm not sure exactly how big it is but we were getting fined by the shipping company because the dimensions of our packaging was incorrect. And so as we printed out the shipping labels for it, it was off maybe by an inch or whatever it was. And so when we send it to FedEx who was our shipping carrier and they would measure it we would be off by however much and they would actually fine us and so it added to tens of thousands of dollars in fines that we are receiving; not shipping costs, fines because our dimensions were wrong. And so for less than $10,000, we purchased a dim scanner and basically eliminated that. That dim scanner pays itself in one to two months and then from that point forward we now recovered yet another 20, $30,000 back. So you see the recurring theme here; paid search, this is how much we can save by doing it better, affiliate, this is how much we can save by doing it better, shipping, this is how much we can save by doing it better and then here's the freaking key. Like this is the thing though; don't just sit on that. And again I guess this depends on your goal. If your goal is to just absolute squeeze every penny out of these companies that you want then go and do it. My goal is growth and to turn these companies into large companies so that one day I may list with Chuck and get a great multiple on these companies. But take those dollars that you're taking and now do all of the things on the list; in that plan and the things that the previous owner said I could never afford, I could never get to, I can never pay somebody to do it. Now you found the funds to go and actually do those things. Use that money to fund that growth. Again I'll refer to Pat who runs our paid search; he calls that feed the winners starve the losers, so just taking the wasted money and putting it back into reinvest on growth and winning. Chuck: So with the shipping fines that you discovered how long have you been running this business; it's been a year and a half? Mike: A year and a half, yeah. Chuck: And you just discovered it now. Is there something that you are having; we don't know what we don't know, right? So we don't know what to look for. Is this something that you could have identified on day one to have seen even more value? Mike: Yeah, thanks for pointing it out Chuck. It's always painful to look back and say oh we could have made an additional 30 to 50 grand in the last 12 months if we just would have found this. Chuck: And this is probably not a common problem, right? But it's something you're going to look for in the future. Where would they have identified that; what due diligence would you have done in order to have seen that? Mike: Yeah, looking at the shipping invoices and seeing exactly what those are. And there are some pretty cool companies out there that will A) look at that for you and B) they'll actually monitor your shipping and make sure that it arrives on time. There's one called Late Shipment it's I think the one that we use; LateShipment.com and if FedEx doesn't deliver within the agreed-upon time; the one to two days, they'll actually refund; we get a refund on that shipping cost. So that's another example if they're not using; if you send out a million dollars or if you pay a million dollars in shipping costs every year and I think I know ours is above a million but I'll just use that, so a million dollars, if you can recoup 2, 3, 4% that's 20, 30, $40,000 back in your pocket that just appeared out of nowhere. So that's another one on my list. So are they using a dim scanner? Are they getting fined for this? Are they using LateShipment.com and getting a refund on anything that's late? Again stacking up this $160,000 in savings in paid search, $40,000 in savings in affiliate, 30 to 50,000 in dim scanner, late shipment another 30 to $40,000 just stacking and stacking and stacking. Another one is credit card fees; are they using a good credit card process? Have they negotiated their rates since they grew from zero to 15 million dollars in sales? And if they haven't that's an opportunity like just a one or two; what do they call them? Bits I think is what they call it but it could mean a huge difference in your overall company. Just one or two bits is 15 to $30,000 on a 15 million dollar business. Chuck: And so in your defense, I think on the shipping thing the company that you purchased did have one of those companies in place that were looking at the delayed shipments but that company wasn't looking at the penalties you were receiving. Mike: That's right. Chuck: So even if somebody is using a company that is monitoring the late shipping and getting those refunds they may not be looking at the fees which is strange. You think they'd be doing it but they weren't. Something I've heard you say at conferences when looking at it from a different type of business, so right now we're kind of talking about e-commerce but you also work with people who are doing content sites and their affiliates with other people. So what's your number one tip if you purchased a content site that makes money off affiliates; what's your number one tip for those people? Mike: Go ask for a raise. Chuck: What does that mean? Mike: Go to the affiliate management; either the advertiser or the affiliate management company who's managing them and say I want to make more. And there's many ways that you can position that. One is if you're a content site just know that my affiliate company, AffiliateManager.com is always looking for more content sites. We want to bring that value to our clients and you are in a position; it's a content site's market, let me put it that way. We all want what you have and some make the mistake of because they've been beat down and offered 1, 2, 3, 5, 10% commissions in the past day they just turn away affiliate marketing. Don't do that. You're leaving money on the table. If you find a good advertiser or a good affiliate management company that knows what they're doing and they know that this content site is upper funnel and bringing incremental business to the table they're going to be willing to pay for that and they might pay 20%, 25%, 30%. One of our clients pays 100%. Another one pays up to $150 for an acquisition and they might make zero on it. So it's just one of those things where you have to go and be willing to ask for a raise. And again a good affiliate management company they're going to look at the incremental value, we; not to get too much into us because I know this is more about acquisition but we actually have an attribution tool that we built because it didn't exist that shows where in the clickstream each of these sites are. And if it's a content site going back to your point and we look at their overall numbers and 70% of the time they're the first touch for anybody who's making a purchase on your site, yes we want that incremental traffic and sales coming from that content site. So to you content sites out there you are in a position of desire. We all want to work with you more and go and ask for raises. Somebody who recognizes your value is going to very much be willing to pay it. And if they're not go find somebody else; they're going to be willing to pay it. You are valuable. Chuck: And just to give an example of something like that. I've got a number of content sites and one of them the affiliates that I was getting paid from is a Canadian company and they send me a Canadian check. So every time I cash the Canadian check I get hit with like a 10 or $20 cashing fee. And it's just like annoying and it's small amount of money but it's annoying so I emailed them and I said hey can you just like PayPal me the money or wire me the money or do something else because I want to get ahold of the $10 fee every time I cash your check and they go oh how about we just double what we pay you? Okay, that'll work. So they really are willing; if they see the value in what you're providing them they are willing to pay more, so just a nice little tip there from Mike Nuñez. Mike: Yeah. And there was a guy Greg; I won't say his last name at Rhodium one year and I said that at a table and one year later he came back and said by that one tip that you just said because he was a content site or is a content site, I have grown my revenue by 25%. All I did; I didn't do anything else but go back and ask for a raise and the revenue on my site grew 25%. Chuck: Amazing. Mike: Free, yeah. Chuck: Alright, so we've talked about shipping, we've talked about affiliate, we've talked about ads, is there anything else specifically that you're looking for when you're acquiring? Mike: Yeah if they're not on Amazon I think that's a pretty obvious one. If they are on Amazon and either doing a poor job or no job at Amazon ads; Amazon ads I probably the biggest opportunity right now for everyone that sells on Amazon. Chuck: And this is kind of new to you in the last couple of years, right? Mike: Yeah. Well, I mean it didn't really exist a couple of years ago or it was very nascent. So it's still one of those things like if you remember Google back in the day when clicks used to be available for a penny or five cents and such. Chuck: Yeah man they sent me a refrigerator. I had spent so much money I got a Google refrigerator. Mike: So I'm not saying that pen that clicks are available for a penny on Amazon but if you incorporate the right system and how to manage it you can gross it; like I'll give you physical numbers year over year in November even those Cyber Monday fell outside of November this year. We grew Amazon sales on that outdoor brand by 50% using Amazon ads. So it's another example of having expertise in this paid search world and finding opportunities within it. Amazon ads; I think maybe that's super-secret number 10. I think we've gotten away from the super secrets but maybe super-secret number 10 and it's probably one of the most powerful ones I see right now available for people. Chuck: So what else are you looking for? Mike: So besides being on Amazon and Amazon ads, me personally I'm looking for a strong operational foundation because I'm not an expert at that. I'm not good at that but thankfully the businesses that I purchase have that. I'm looking for a barrier to entry like how replicatable is this business and what is the barrier that people have to get through? And this is a little bit less quantifiable but this is just a general do I want to be involved in this business; how hard is it for somebody who's just as good at paid search as me or Amazon or whatever, if they just got a hold of my supplier could they replicate this and do I want that? And if the answer is it's too easy then I move on. Is it a learnable industry? One of the things I was worried about with the custom suit company was maybe before purchasing it I wasn't as sharp a dresser, Chuck. Maybe my wardrobe might have consisted of free conference t-shirts but I was worried about that and… Chuck: You're pulling it off still. Mike: Thank you. And once I got into it I learned no this is a learnable industry. I can do this and it's worked great since then. Is it Amazon resistant? And I know that's a little counter to saying are they on Amazon. Is Amazon going to move into that space? Are they going to want to replicate what it is that you're doing? And on the outdoor brand, it's more of we joined to them; we couldn't beat them so we joined them and a good 50, 60% of our sales are on Amazon on that brand. On the suit brand, we're looking to sell accessories; expand our brand awareness because you can't sell custom suits on Amazon and it's unlikely that Amazon is going to get into that realm. So we're thinking how can we use Amazon to expand our brand awareness, generate some confidence in the brand, and yet not have to; since we're not able to send custom suits and sell custom suits on Amazon directly so is Amazon a threat to the business is something that we look at overall. Inventory management optimization; so leveraging just in time inventory because anybody that's involved in an inventory-based business knows that a lot of times your profit can go straight back into purchasing additional inventory. And if you want to realize any profits before you sell the business you've got have inventory optimization. Is the current ownership leveraging that inventory optimization? Are there conversion rate optimization opportunities; have they ever even tried it before? I just had a call today for the suit company and this is going to be ultra-specific but it is an indicator of what we've done. We launched a new cart in early November and we just ran the numbers and today on desktop for new customers we have doubled our conversion rate which anybody knows that the lifeblood of a business is acquiring new customers. So to do that is pretty amazing. Now on mobile, it was pretty static but we've also generated significant amounts of more traffic on mobile to the suit company. So that's a little bit misleading to say that it's exactly the same. Well anybody who knows conversion rate optimization and knows how traffic works; if you increase traffic the quality is potentially a little bit lower and so the fact that we slightly beat our previous conversion rate on mobile is a huge win. So are there conversion rate optimization to opportunities in the acquisition? Here's one that you know is near and dear to my heart, Chuck. What is the current platform; are they on Net Suite, on Shopify, on Magento? Because the one thing I never ever recommend is changing platforms. So can you accomplish all of the things on your list that you want to do on the platform? We use Net Suite as one of them and it is extremely difficult to get changes done but we are not moving. So it's just something that I think everybody should really consider. Or are you on an archaic platform like at Yahoo stores; something that's not being updated anymore and there's seven people in the world that can code to Yahoo stores? Now you're beholden to them. You have to pay exorbitant rates for their development because they're the only one that knows it as opposed to a Shopify or a Magento that developers are plenty. Chuck: If you're on Yahoo shout out to Rob Snell, look him up if you need help with your Yahoo business. Mike: There you go. See I didn't even mean that. That helps. And I think the last thing; us particularly we enjoy custom products, so custom made suits is a really good example or even for the branded products; things that other people makes, turning them into custom products. We really think that that's a good market to be and again slightly more defensible against an Amazon. And then finally this is my last on my company acquisition algorithm that I'll share today just I know we're limited on time is what synergies can you participate in? So if you listen to the last call you heard me talking about a brand that we made an offer on that it was a full price offer, quick close, no due diligence because it was a trusted brand. And before Chuck chimes in, he recommends that you never do that but the reason why we wanted that brand is because it was geared towards outdoor enthusiasts and we have tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of outdoor enthusiasts that come to our website every day. So looking for synergistic brands that are out there to acquire and diversify the income and now not only sell other people's brands but also sell your own brand; white labeling things like that, finding things with opportunities like that, that's the last opportunity that we're looking for in our algorithm. Chuck: Awesome. Alright, so now let's maybe move into what some of the lessons you've learned from the various acquisitions you've done. And you had acquired some stuff before Quiet Light as well. Mike: Yeah. So I think a lot of them are listed on what I just said but I will say there's; because every time I learn a lesson to me it's an opportunity for the next acquisition. So again I will buy another business on Net Suite but I wouldn't have bought the first one knowing what I know now about Net Suite. But now that we've had to learn it, now that we've had to; our developer is familiar with it now and can make the changes that we need and want, now I'll buy another one. And so to me there's an opportunity there, right? It's harder for people to do that than it is for me. It's yet another level of expertise. So that's one thing is a lot of the lessons are kind of listed already in that but there's one I would say recently and again it's with the custom suit business, don't get so caught up in your own expertise. Again we are really, really good at paid search and one of the reasons why is because we're so return focused. A mistake that we made with the custom suit business is we went straight for a return. If a dollar didn't turn into five; I'll just use that as an example, we didn't spend it. And because of that, we saw sales drop. And I talked to the previous owner about it and said hey we're seeing this, why? And he's like well yes cross-device tracking is good however it doesn't capture everything. And mobile devices; think about who buys suits these days, and it's somebody with a mobile life. It's a lawyer that's always in the courtroom. It's a doctor that's always walking about. It's a financial person that's not necessarily sitting at their desk, they're going to meeting after meeting after meeting and where are they searching up for their next suit? Well, it's probably their mobile device. They find it and then they go on the desktop and they go on and they purchase it. And we had pulled back pretty significantly on the mobile spend because the conversion rate just wasn't as good. And so that's one example of us kind of getting in our own way. But to our credit, we were able to kind of step back and say okay we learned a lesson here, let's get better at it and change our approach. And since then that's when we now had some of our best days that we've ever had. So I like to think of it as a lot of these owners or the previous owners they had levels of expertise; they were doing something right and so it's our job as experts that are better at it to take the lessons that they've learned and apply our expertise to it to just throw some gasoline on it. Chuck: Alright Mike so one of the ways I like to usually end these things is just to ask if you have any kind of tools that you use on a regular basis; just some things that can either help with productivity, it could even be outside of work. One example the other day I was kind of upset about it because you ordered the chicken sandwich from Popeye's through Uber Eats so that you didn't have to wait in line and you didn't bother sending me one. That's a great little life hack. So what else do you have? Do you have any tools that you might recommend or any other little things? Mike: I did the same thing with Amazon two years ago when they were operating like the one-hour delivery and we had a hurricane coming to Florida and I just ordered all the bottled water and had it delivered while everybody else is fighting each other at the store. But now that secret's out. That's no longer an advantage but yeah some tools that I like that we use; so for Google Ads, I'll say if you're using things like maximize for clicks run we prefer an enhanced CPC bidding algorithm or a target CPA. We always test to see which one's better. Prioritization, I love Air Table. I got to give a shout out to my business partner Daniel for that. Air Table is a prioritization tool and basically, it can help identify what is the easiest to implement to get the most impactful change that you can make. And so it just really helps to prioritize what it is that you're doing and the changes that you're making to the company because obviously, we all want to make the biggest impact as quickly as possible. I love Grammarly for sending emails so that I don't sound silly. Chuck: That one saves me all the time. Mike: It's so good. I haven't used their pro version but even just the regular version is fantastic. For the affiliate management company, I got to give a shout out to Mail Shake. We love Mail Shake. We use that very often. It's a terrific tool. I love Moz. So the Moz toolbar is something that I use a lot. And then I think we use a lot of the things everybody else uses like the Evernotes and Google apps and things like that. So I think the first ones that were probably some of the others may not have heard them. Chuck: Awesome. Well, I think everybody who's been listening appreciates your time. I'd love to have you back at another time. We can talk about some more stuff once you've hit that next goal of purchase through us we'll talk about that one. But again thank you for the time today and we'll talk to you again soon. Mike: Thanks, Chuck. Links and Resources: Affiliate Manager

 The Good Life (Part 1) - Chuck ColsonThe Good Life (Part 2) - Chuck ColsonFamilyLife Today® Radio TranscriptReferences to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. The Good LifeDay 2 o 2 Guest:                        Chuck Colson  From the Series:      A Life Well-Lived________________________________________________________________ Bob:                Do the truth claims of Christianity make rational, logical, reasonable sense?  Chuck Colson says they do. Chuck:            I've gotten so convinced of the truth of the biblical worldview as applied in life against any other worldview, and I'm convinced if I could argue the case that the biblical worldview is the only one that conforms to reality, that I would win that case, hands down, intellectually – by reason, by arguments, by logic.  But that doesn't get you to God.  As a matter of fact, sometimes the more you know, the tougher it gets. Bob:                This is FamilyLife Today for Tuesday, August 30th.  Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.  What can we do or say that will persuade a watching world of the reality of who Christ is?                         And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us.  You know, the guest we have with us this week – I don't know – in fact, I'm curious – it's obvious, as you read through what he's written, that he's been influenced by C.S. Lewis and by Francis Shaffer, and I just wonder who wins the battle there – Lewis versus Shaffer?  Who has had more influence in Chuck Colson's life – C.S. Lewis or Francis Shaffer? Chuck:            I would hate to answer that question, Bob, because both of them have had a huge influence on my life.  Lewis would probably, however, if I had to chose between the two, would be number one because it was his arguments in "Mere Christianity," that persuaded me that Christianity is rational, reasonable, sustainable, as a matter of fact, nothing else makes sense.  And so you'll see a lot of Lewis through this book.                         In terms of my theology, Shaffer; and, before him, Abraham Kiper, influenced my perspective on Scripture and the relationship of the church and Scripture to the world.  So in two different areas, I am profoundly grateful to those three men. Bob:                Was Shaffer still alive when you came to faith? Chuck:            Oh, yes, I knew him.  Oh, sure, I went to LeBrie [ph] and visited with him at his invitation.  We spent a day together.  It was a wonderful time.  He was a very humble man, and then I visited with him a number of times when he came to the States and was at speeches and conferences.  I was at his funeral, the first person to come in and view the body, as a matter of fact, when he laying in his living room. Bob:                I kind of just jumped in.  I guess most of our listeners probably know our guest. Dennis:          I think they recognized the voice of Chuck Colson.  Chuck, welcome back to FamilyLife Today.   Chuck:            Thanks, Dennis, nice to be with you. Dennis:          Chuck has written a book called "The Good Life," and you don't have to turn but a couple of pages before you read a quote by Pascal, who said, "The supreme function of reason is to show man that some things are beyond reason." Chuck:            Blaise Pascal is one of the most interesting men ever, and his writings have affected me greatly, as well, particularly his Pensees.  But Pascal died in his late thirties, and was the inventor of the computer.  He did the first crude calculating device. Bob:                This isn't some Al Gore thing you're just making up? Chuck:            No, no, this isn't Al Gore inventing the unit.  Blaise Pascal, 300 years ago, came up with the concept that has become the computer.  He was also a great philosopher and great Christian.  What he's basically saying is that reason is a gift of God, and we can use reason to pursue with our minds facts and truth, and the more we look for the facts and truth about life, we will eventually get to the point where we realize reason takes us only so far. Dennis:          Right. Chuck:            And the more we reason – and that's what I do in this book – the more we reason, we get to the place where we have to end up in faith. Dennis:          You tell a story at the beginning of your book that beautifully illustrates that.  It's about your daughter, Emily, who is a single parent raising an autistic child, Max.   Chuck:            Yes, she's a great heroine to me, and Max is the most lovable kid in the world.  And I tell the story of why I wrote this book, basically, this book is to try to show people how the world works and how they fit into it, and it's to be non-threatening.  It's a book for seekers.  That's why it relies on reason for the first two-thirds of the book before it gets to Scripture and faith, because I want to draw people in.                         But one thing about autism, as most people perhaps are aware, everything has to be orderly in just perfect arrangement for an autistic child.  When Max comes to our house – he's 14, he's getting to be a big kid. Emily does a wonderful job managing him.  When he comes to our house, he checks where all the pictures are.  Are they all on the wall, in the same place?  Does the stove work the same way?  Has anything changed?  And then as long as he knows everything is okay, he's at peace.                         Well, one night we had a visitor come to the house, and it was unexpected, and he brought a Christmas gift for me, and when he came in the house, Max started to get agitated, and you could see he was going to have what euphemistically called a "meltdown," and they go out of control, they have a tantrum.  So Emily grabbed a pad and sat down with Max and drew pictures.  She's a good artist.  She drew little box pictures like a comic strip.  And she would say, "This man knocking on the door, he's a friend of Grandpa's, they go fishing together," and then she'd draw a little sign of a fishing boat, and then "They work together, and it's Christmas, and he's brought this gift."  She drew the picture.                          Suddenly, Max understood how his little world at that moment worked, and he calmed down immediately.  And what I'm doing in this book is drawing a picture for people the same way Emily drew a picture for Max of how the world works.  What things are true, what things aren't true, what can you find about life, and most of which is through paradoxes.  What can you find out that's true about life, and then figure out how you fit in.  And, of course, the ultimate question is what is true?  Is there truth, and is it knowable?                         The second half of the book is devoted to that question which, to me, is one that we Christians desperately need to understand how you make that case and then make it with our friends.  And, particularly, get your kids to understand there is truth, and it is knowable, and here is how it's knowable before they go to college or before they leave the home, because the first thing they'll be assaulted with is the statement, "There is no truth." Bob:                Do you remember when Timothy McVeigh was executed, and he read, as his final statement in life, the poem, "Invictus," which ends with I am the captain of my own destiny.  Do you think most people think that that is what life is all about? Chuck:            Well, I think a lot of people would say that, because I would have said that before I was converted, and that's a statement of pride.  In the case of Timothy McVeigh, it was insufferable arrogance.  He was captain of his own ship, master of his own destiny, he could control life.  That was Nietzche – the world of power.  You can will yourself to this position.                         A lot of people imbibe that because they think that's what they're supposed to think.  Deep down inside, no, they cry like a baby inside, because they know they need other people, they know they need things.  One of the great studies I cited in this book was down at Dartmouth, and it discovered that human beings are wired, literally, the way we are genetically disposed – the way our brains work, we are wired to connect.  In other words, we don't live alone.  We live in community, we live with family, we live with friends, we live in a nation. And, secondly, we're wired for God.  We are actually searching for a meaningful relationship with the One who created us.  Whether we acknowledge it or not, and most people out of pride won't acknowledge it, just like I wouldn't.  But, oh, I was so desperately hungry, and as soon as I let those defenses go, that guard go down, that night in the driveway in that flood of tears – sure, it came to me.                           So I'm trying to walk people through that same question in this book. Dennis:          Reason can only take us so far; faith is what finishes the connection between the human soul and God. Chuck:            Exactly. Dennis:          And what you've attempted to do is exhort us to come to the truth.  One of the things I want you to comment on – you just alluded to it briefly a few moments ago – you say that today there is no such thing as reality or, capital T, Truth, in our culture today.  And I think, for the average mom and dad who are raising kids, I don't think they realize, Chuck, what a battleground this is around truth. Chuck:            This is the battleground.  This is the battleground.  Is there any reality, is there any ultimate reality … Dennis:          Or is it just opinion? Chuck:            Yes, it is just your preference versus my preference, and that's what they're being taught in college.  They're sawing off the branch on which they sit, and so what I'm trying to show in this book is that there is reality, there has to be reality, we know there is, we know there are certain things that conform to the way they truly are, which is the classical definition of truth.  The job is to find it.  But, Dennis, you hit the nail on the head – you get to the point where you can prove it. I've gotten so convinced of the truth of the biblical worldview as applied in life against any other worldview, that my great dream, as I write in "The Good Life," my great dream is someday to be able to stand in the Supreme Court – every lawyers dream – and argue His case in the Supreme Court.  And I'm convinced if I could argue the case that the biblical worldview is the only one that conforms to reality, that I would win that case, hands down, intellectually – by reason, by arguments, by logic.  But that doesn't get you to God.  As a matter of fact, sometimes the more you know, the tougher it gets.  That's why the last chapter of this book is about faith as the step we have to take.  And people say, "Well, I can't profess faith because I have doubts."  Good.  If you didn't have doubts, faith wouldn't be required.  If God were as obvious as the tree in the yard, you wouldn't have to have faith. Dennis:          You know, it's interesting to hear you say that, because you're a very bright, intellectual man – well-educated.  You continue to study the world religions throughout the scope of your life, and yet as you move toward the last phase of your life, you are more convinced not less. Chuck:            I remember many years ago hearing Malcolm Muggeridge – I don't know how many of our listeners will remember that name, but he was a great writer, a great journalist, who converted late in life.  And he said, "I'm more convinced of the reality of Jesus Christ than I am of my own reality."  And he was a colorful guy – white hair going all over the place, and he'd always have a wonderful chuckle.  I was with him once for tea, and he was talking about this, and I thought, "Well, he's an old man." At that point, he was the same age I am now.  And I said this is a bit of hyperbole.  You know, it isn't. I'm convinced that the logos means all the intelligence, all that can be – but to the Greeks, everything that could be known or is known.  But the logos basically programs the little computers in the billions of cells we have within us called DNA, which has information like 30 volumes of the Encyclopedia Britannica four times over is the information in one of the DNAs that program ourselves.  Bill Gates, he's never designed as sophisticated software as the DNA.                         And I think the logos programs that.  I think we are kept alive by God because He – the spiritual world – and a British physicist converted and has written books about this – the spiritual world actually animates the physical world.  So I think it's right.  I think we're more convinced of the reality of Christ than unreality.  And the more I study the more convinced I get. Bob:                As a dad trying to raise kids who will pursue the good life, as you've defined it there, in a culture that is increasingly trying to point them in other directions – I'll tell you how I became aware of the struggle that I was in the midst of.  A year ago, when the issue of gay marriage was in the news, one of my children was asked to write a paper on it at school, and I could tell there was a real wrestle between the desire to be compassionate and the desire to be truthful, and I thought, "Where is this going to end up?"  And I really do wonder where it's going to end up in the culture – not just with my kids but with all of our kids.  How can we, today, point our kids in this direction? Chuck:            Well, I think this is, of course, a great question, Bob, and I was just talking with a fellow this morning about that very question.  First of all, you've got to explain to them that there is an order to life.  I mean, life does work a certain way.  And sin is nothing but, as Neal Plantinga, the great theologian at Calvin Seminary says, "Sin is nothing but folly," foolishness, because it's like walking into a room blindfolded, and you don't know where you're going to hit the furniture.  You've got to know how the world is organized in order to live rationally.                         And your daughter writing that paper is going to have a natural tendency to say, "Well, if these people are disposed this way, why should we tell them they can't behave this way?"  And if she were to answer that question in her paper saying, "Well, I feel sorry for these people, but the Bible says it's a sin."  She wouldn't absolutely make any points at all with her classmates or anyone else, because they'd say, "Well, that's what the Bible says.  You live by the Bible, I don't live by the Bible."                           What you have to say is there's a natural order to life.  Life works a certain way.  Sex is for procreation.  That's why we have that capacity.  It doesn't work in homosexual sex.  They cannot perform a natural act.  It is unnatural, whether you like to use that word or not, it is.  There is a natural order in life; there is a natural law.  This was C.S. Lewis's great argument that had such an effect on me when he talked about this natural law and people know it, and they've known it through every culture in every generation.  We know the world works a certain way, which is the very point I've been trying to make in here.  We know the world works a certain way, and our job is to live our lives in accordance with what works, otherwise we're dumb, we're stupid, because Neal Plantinga puts it very graphically – "When you don't live the way the world works, it's like spitting into the wind or coloring outside the lines or cutting across the grain of the universe."  So it's just good sense to figure out.                           Now, the relationship between a man and a woman in marriage is the way you perpetuate the human race.  You raise children in an environment where character can be cultivated and learned.  It's never taught, it's learned.  And you can't do that if the relationship doesn't conform to the way the world works.  If everybody were homosexual there wouldn't be any children.  So you can't tell me that it's normative.  It isn't normative, it can't be normative by definition.                         And I make the natural order arguments, which, over the years, Catholics are much better at than we are.  Evangelicals always use the Bible because it is our primary source of knowledge, obviously, but it won't wash with people.  The natural order argument is very, very important. Bob:                So that's where we've got to point our kids. Chuck:            That's where we point our kids – explaining the reality of the way the world works. Dennis:          You conclude your book talking about how the good life ultimately ends in death, which can result in new life.  And throughout the book, you use illustrations of people who illustrate the good life positively and negatively, and as you talk about the end of a matter; that is, death, you use two illustrations.  One is a funeral you and I attended where Bill Bright was honored for his life; and another illustration you use was a funeral neither of us attended, because there was none – John Ehrlichman, a Watergate figure.  Just quickly contrast John's life with Bill's life.  Chuck:            Well, John Ehrlichman, I went back to see – when he invited me to when he was in a nursing home in Atlanta, everything had collapsed in his life.  He'd been through three marriages, his family abandoned him, he had nothing.  He was penniless and powerless – once one of the most powerful men in the world.  And he wanted to see me because the doctor had told him he had renal failure.  He was on kidney dialysis.  A doctor told him that he could get a shot of morphine and put himself out of the misery.                         I was shocked.  I spent an hour talking about the dignity of life and the meaning of life.  I don't know whether it sank in or not.  A friend of mine went back and prayed with him and hopefully he received Christ.  I'd like to think he did before he died.  But he died alone in the nursing home with nobody around him, having given up on life.  I can't think of a more despairing story.  And I tell it as a tragic story because he was such a good man until the collapse came in his life, and we said earlier what happens to you doesn't matter, it's how you react to what happens to you.  Well, he reacted badly to what happened to him in the fall of Watergate.                         Contrast that with Bill Bright.  I remember being with you at the funeral, Dennis, and what a great experience that was, what a joyous day that was for Bill's celebration of his life.  But, Bill, when he learned he had pulmonary fibrosis, which is one of the most difficult ways to die, you're slowly suffocating, and it's agonizing death, and the doctor told him how bad it was going to be, and Bill said, "Praise the Lord, this is what God wants."                          Throughout that two, three-year period that Bill knew he was dying, maybe the most productive period in his ministry.  He wrote all kinds of things, did videos.  I'd go see him in his apartment, and he had the oxygen strapped to him, and he never was without a smile and always giving me ideas and "Here's something you can do in the ministry, Chuck."  He was an extraordinary man.  And when he died, Vonette was with him, and whispered to him, "It's all right," and he turned his head, and he died peacefully.                         John Paul II, the pope, gave the world a similar lesson in how to die in the midst of suffering, constantly issuing statements saying, "Suffering will be redeemed," and Christians have to know that suffering will be redeemed, and we have to know if you're going to live the good life, it contemplates a good death.  It contemplates facing it with equanimity, because you know you're going to be with the Lord, and dying with grace to the extent you can.  And, obviously, some people are in terrible pain.  But Bill Bright set the gold standard for me. Dennis:          He really did.  He showed us how to live and how to die. Chuck:            And how to die, yep. Dennis:          There may be a man or a woman listening to this broadcast, perhaps a boy or a girl, who goes, "You know what?  It's time for me to have that faith experience that you talked about where you had to pull the car off to the side of the road and receive Christ."  Would you explain to them what they need to do?  Just at their point where they are right now – how they can connect with God and know they're forgiven all their sins. Chuck:            It's maddeningly simple, and the problem with it is that people think, "There's got to be more to that.  I've got to do some good works, I've got to do something to show that I'm a good person.  I'm really not.  My life is a mess right now.  I'll clean up my life first before I come to God."  Wrong.  You can't clean up your life, you're incapable of cleaning up your life, and God doesn't want you to even try.  What He wants you to do is surrender – the humblest possible surrender.  Get rid of your pride, which is the great enemy, and simply say, "Lord Jesus, I want You in my life.  Forgive me of my sins."  Let Him worry about cleaning them up.  When I came to Him, I had a ton of sins, and there were some He could immediately erase, there were some he had to work on with me for a while, and that's part of the process of sanctification.  It's a joint process between us and between God.                         But what it takes is a simple act of faith, recognizing that your doubts are a good thing.  I loved what you said about Tom Skinner [ph], that was a marvelous quote.  Your doubts are good things, because if you didn't have doubts, you wouldn't take God seriously.  You wouldn't need God.  We need Him because He settles the question for us, and He's made it so easy for just us to turn to Him as long as we are generally repentant and ask Him to come in and take our lives. Dennis:          And He'll take us at our word at that point and make us a new creation in Christ. Chuck:            You know, people say, "Does God answer prayers?"  He answers the prayer of every single person who says, "Jesus, take me." Bob:                And that puts you on the path for a good life. Dennis:          It does, it does. Chuck:            It is the good life. Dennis:          Yeah, it is.  Chuck, I want to thank you for being on FamilyLife Today.  And, you know, someday I hope you get a chance to go to the Supreme Court and argue … Chuck:            … argue that case … Dennis:          … argue for Jesus Christ and why Christianity should be the worldview of every living human being.  Bob:                I'm just afraid you'd still get a five to four against in that verdict.  With this Court I would get it exactly right. Chuck:            Thanks for being, God bless you guys. Bob:                We've got copies of your book available in our FamilyLife Resource Center.  Again, the book is called "The Good Life," and I want to encourage our listeners – it makes the case – you don't need to hear the arguments before the Supreme Court.  The book lays out the case, and it's pretty clear, and, in fact, it's pretty tough to refute.  I think you can give this book to somebody who doesn't know Christ and just say, "I'd be interested in your thoughts as you read through this," and it could spark quite a dialog.                          Again, we've got copies in the FamilyLife Resource Center.  Go to our website, FamilyLife.com, click the "Go" button at the bottom of the screen, and that will take you right to a page where you can get more information about Chuck Colson's book, "The Good Life."                         We also have the book that was instrumental in you coming to faith in Christ, and that's the book by C.S. Lewis called "Mere Christianity," which is another apologetic for the reasonableness of Christianity – a classic book.  If you're interested in ordering both Chuck's book and "Mere Christianity," we'll send you at no additional cost the CD audio of our conversation this week with Chuck Colson.                         Again, the website is FamilyLife.com.  Click the "Go" button at the bottom of the screen, and that will take you right to the page where you can get more information about these resources, or you can order online, if you'd like.  If it's easier, you can call 1-800-FLTODAY, and there is someone on our team waiting to help you with an order.  Again, it's 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY.                         And let me say a special word of thanks to those folks who have gotten in touch with us over the last several weeks, Dennis, and have made a donation to FamilyLife Today.  We're listener-supported, and we depend on donations to keep FamilyLife Today on this station and on stations all across the country.  We hope that folks who donate to our ministry have first been faithful in donating to their local church.  That ought to be your first giving priority.  But in recent weeks, as some of our listeners have been aware that we are ending our fiscal year, and that summertime is coming to a close, we've had folks calling not only to make a donation but to challenge others to make a donation as well.                         We've heard from a lot of listeners who have attended one of our Weekend to Remember conferences, and they called not only to donate to FamilyLife Today but also to challenge other people who have benefited from the Weekend to Remember to make a donation.  And we've heard from folks who have taken the resources that we created or even recommended this radio program to friends and have seen God use this in their lives.  They've called to make a donation and wanted to challenge others to do the same.                         So we're hoping that you will consider meeting that challenge and maybe issue a challenge of your own.  If you've not made a donation to FamilyLife Today in recent days, you can do that online at FamilyLife.com or you can call 1-800-FLTODAY to make a donation.  Again, it's 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY or go online and donate at FamilyLife.com.                         Well, tomorrow Lisa Bevere is going to join us, and we're going to talk about why it is that women wind up losing when they give in to pressure from men.  She'll share some of her own story and some warnings for women.  I hope you can be back with us for that.                         I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.  On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.  We'll see you back tomorrow for another edition of FamilyLife Today.                          FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas, a ministry of Campus Crusade for Christ.  ______________________________________________________________________ We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.  However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website.  If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would   you consider donating today to help defray the costs?         Copyright © FamilyLife.  All rights reserved.       www.FamilyLife.com

Sponsors: KendoUI Sentry use the code "devchat" for $100 credit Clubhouse Panel: Charles Max Wood Special Guests: Ed Thomson In this episode, the Charles speaks with Ed Thomson who is a Program Manager at Azure through Microsoft, Developer, and Open Source Maintainer. Ed and Chuck discuss in full detail about Azure DevOps! Check out today’s episode to hear its new features and other exciting news! Show Topics: 0:59 – Live at Microsoft Ignite 1:03 – Ed: Hi! I am a Program Manager at Azure. 1:28 – Rewind 2 episodes to hear more about Azure DevOps! 1:51 – Ed: One of the moves from Pipelines to DevOps – they could still adopt Pipelines. Now that they are separate services – it’s great. 2:38 – Chuck talks about features he does and doesn’t use. 2:54 – Ed. 3:00 – Chuck: Repos and Pipelines. I am going to dive right in. Let’s talk about Repos. Microsoft just acquired GitHub. 3:18 – Ed: Technically we have not officially acquired GitHub. 3:34 – Chuck: It’s not done. It’s the end of September now. 3:55 – Ed: They will remain the same thing for a while. GitHub is the home for open source. Repos – we use it in Microsoft. Repositories are huge. There are 4,000 engineers working in these repositories. Everyone works in his or her own little area, and you have to work together. You have to do all this engineering to get there. We bit a tool and it basically if you run clone... Ed continues to talk about this topic. He is talking about One Drive and these repositories. 6:28 – Ed: We aren’t going to be mixing and matching. I used to work through GitHub. It’s exciting to see those people work close to me. 6:54 – Chuck. 6:59 – Ed: It has come a long way. 7:07 – Chuck: Beyond the FSF are we talking about other features or? 7:21 – Ed: We have unique features. We have branch policies. You can require that people do pole request. You have to use pole request and your CI has to pass and things like that. I think there is a lot of richness in our auditing. We have enterprise focus. At its core it still is Git. We can all interoperate. 8:17 – Chuck. 8:37 – Ed: You just can’t set it up with Apache. You have to figure it out. 8:51 – Chuck: The method of pushing and pulling. 9:06 – Chuck: You can try DevOps for free up to 5 users and unlimited private repos. People are interested in this because GitHub makes you pay for that. 9:38 – Ed and Chuck continue to talk. 9:50 – Ed: Pipelines is the most interesting thing we are working on. We have revamped the entire experience. Build and release. It’s easy to get started. We have a visual designer. Super helpful – super straightforward. Releases once your code is built – get it out to production say for example Azure. It’s the important thing to get your code out there. 10:55 – Chuck: How can someone start with this? 11:00 – Ed: Depends on where your repository is. It will look at your code. “Oh, I know what that is, I know how to build that!” Maybe everyone isn’t doing everything with JavaScript. If you are using DotNet then it will know. 12:05 – Chuck: What if I am using both a backend and a frontend? 12:11 – Ed: One repository? That’s when you will have to do a little hand packing on the... There are different opportunities there. If you have a bash script that does it for you. If not, then you can orchestrate it. Reduce the time it takes. If it’s an open source project; there’s 2 – what are you going to do with the other 8? You’d be surprised – people try to sneak that in there. 13:30 – Chuck: It seems like continuous integration isn’t a whole lot complicated. 13:39 – Ed: I am a simple guy that’s how I do it. You can do advanced stuff, though. The Cake Build system – they are doing some crazy things. We have got Windows, Lennox, and others. Are you building for Raspberries Pies, then okay, do this... It’s not just running a script. 15:00 – Chuck: People do get pretty complicated if they want. It can get complicated. Who knows? 15:26 – Chuck:  How much work do you have to do to set-up a Pipeline like that? 15:37 – Ed answers the question in detail. 16:03 – Chuck asks a question. 16:12 – Ed: Now this is where it gets contentious. If one fails... Our default task out of the box... 16:56 – Chuck: If you want 2 steps you can (like me who is crazy). 17:05 – Ed: Yes, I want to see if it failed. 17:17 – Chuck: Dude, writing code is hard. Once you have it built and tested – continuous deployment. 17:33 – Ed: It’s very easy. It’s super straightforward, it doesn’t have to be Azure (although I hope it is!). Ed continues this conversation. 18:43 – Chuck: And it just pulls it? 18:49 – Ed: Don’t poke holes into your firewall. We do give you a lot of flexibility 19:04 – Chuck: VPN credentials? 19:10 – Ed: Just run the... 19:25 – Chuck comments. 19:36 – Ed: ...Take that Zip... 20:02 – Ed: Once the planets are finely aligned then...it will just pull from it. 20:25 – Chuck: I host my stuff on Digital Ocean. 20:46 – Ed: It’s been awhile since I played with... 20:55 – Chuck. 20:59 – Ed and Chuck go back and forth with different situations and hypothetical situations. 21:10 – Ed: What is Phoenix? 21:20 – Chuck explains it. 21:25 – Ed: Here is what we probably don’t have is a lot of ERLANG support. 22:41 – Advertisement. 23:31 – Chuck: Let’s just say it’s a possibility. We took the strip down node and... 23:49 – Ed: I think it’s going to happen. 23:55 – Ed: Exactly. 24:02 – Chuck: Testing against Azure services. So, it’s one thing to run on my machine but it’s another thing when other things connect nicely with an Azure set-up. Does it connect natively once it’s in the Azure cloud? 24:35 – Ed: It should, but there are so many services, so I don’t want to say that everything is identical. We will say yes with an asterisk. 25:07 – Chuck: With continuous deployment... 25:41 – Ed: As an example: I have a CD Pipeline for my website. Every time I merge into master... Ed continues this hypothetical situation with full details. Check it out! 27:03 – Chuck: You probably can do just about anything – deploy by Tweet! 27:15 – Ed: You can stop the deployment if people on Twitter start complaining. 27:40 – Chuck: That is awesome! IF it is something you care about – and if it’s worth the time – then why not? If you don’t have to think about it then great. I have mentioned this before: Am I solving interesting problems? What projects do I want to work on? What kinds of contributions do I really want to contribute to open source? That’s the thing – if you have all these tools that are set-up then your process, how do you work on what, and remove the pain points then you can just write code so people can use! That’s the power of this – because it catches the bug before I have to catch it – then that saves me time. 30:08 – Ed: That’s the dream of computers is that the computers are supposed to make OUR lives easier. IF we can do that and catch those bugs before you catch it then you are saving time. Finding bugs as quickly as possible it avoids downtime and messy deployments. 31:03 – Chuck: Then you can use time for coding style and other things. I can take mental shortcuts. 31:37 – Ed: The other thing you can do is avoiding security problems. If a static code analysis tool catches an integer overflow then... 32:30 – Chuck adds his comments. Chuck: You can set your policy to block it or ignore it. Then you are running these tools to run security. There are third-party tools that do security analysis on your code. Do you integrate with those? 33:00 – Ed: Yep. My favorite is WhiteSource. It knows all of the open source and third-party tools. It can scan your code and... 34:05 – Chuck: It works with a lot of languages. 34:14 – Ed. 34:25 – Chuck: A lot of JavaScript developers are getting into mobile development, like Ionic, and others. You have all these systems out there for different stages for writing for mobile. Android, windows Phone, Blackberry... 35:04 – Ed: Let’s throw out Blackberry builds. We will ignore it. Mac OS dies a fine job. That’s why we have all of those. 35:29 – Chuck: But I want to run my tests, too! 35:36 – Ed: I really like to use App Center. It is ultimately incredible to see all the tests you can run. 36:29 – Chuck: The deployment is different, though, right? 36:40 – Ed: I have a friend who clicks a button in... Azure DevOps. 37:00 – Chuck: I like to remind people that this isn’t a new product. 37:15 – Ed: Yes, Azure DevOps. 37:24 – Chuck: Any new features that are coming out? 37:27 – Ed: We took a little break, but... 37:47 – Ed: We will pick back up once Ignite is over. We have a timeline on our website when we expect to launch some new features, and some are secret, so keep checking out the website. 39:07 – Chuck: What is the interplay between Azure DevOps and Visual Studio Code? Because they have plugins for freaking everything. I am sure there is something there that... 39:30 – Ed: I am a VI guy and I’m like 90% sure there is something there. You are an eMac’s guy? The way I think about it is through Git right out of the box. Yes, I think there are better things out there for integration. I know we have a lot of great things in Visual Code, because I worked with it. 40:45 – Chuck: Yes, people can look for extensions and see what the capabilities are. Chuck talks about code editor and tools.  41:28 – Ed: ... we have been pulling that out as quickly as possible. We do have IE extensions, I am sure there is something for VS Code – but it’s not where I want to spend my time. 42:02 – Chuck: Yes, sure. 42:07 – Ed: But everyone is different – they won’t work the way that I work. So there’s that. 42:30 – Ed: That Chuck. 42:36 – Chuck: Where do people get news? 42:42 – Ed: Go to here! 42:54 – Chuck: Where do people find you? 43:00 – Ed: Twitter! 43:07 – Chuck: Let’s do Picks! 43:20 – Advertisement – Fresh Books! Links: GitHub Microsoft’s Azure Microsoft’s Pipeline Azure DevOps Erlang WhiteSource Chuck’s Twitter Ed Thomson’s Twitter Ed Thomson’s GitHub Ed Thomson’s Website Ed Thomson’s LinkedIn Picks: Ed Podcast - All Things Git

Sponsors: KendoUI Sentry use the code "devchat" for $100 credit Clubhouse Panel: Charles Max Wood Special Guests: Ed Thomson In this episode, the Charles speaks with Ed Thomson who is a Program Manager at Azure through Microsoft, Developer, and Open Source Maintainer. Ed and Chuck discuss in full detail about Azure DevOps! Check out today’s episode to hear its new features and other exciting news! Show Topics: 0:59 – Live at Microsoft Ignite 1:03 – Ed: Hi! I am a Program Manager at Azure. 1:28 – Rewind 2 episodes to hear more about Azure DevOps! 1:51 – Ed: One of the moves from Pipelines to DevOps – they could still adopt Pipelines. Now that they are separate services – it’s great. 2:38 – Chuck talks about features he does and doesn’t use. 2:54 – Ed. 3:00 – Chuck: Repos and Pipelines. I am going to dive right in. Let’s talk about Repos. Microsoft just acquired GitHub. 3:18 – Ed: Technically we have not officially acquired GitHub. 3:34 – Chuck: It’s not done. It’s the end of September now. 3:55 – Ed: They will remain the same thing for a while. GitHub is the home for open source. Repos – we use it in Microsoft. Repositories are huge. There are 4,000 engineers working in these repositories. Everyone works in his or her own little area, and you have to work together. You have to do all this engineering to get there. We bit a tool and it basically if you run clone... Ed continues to talk about this topic. He is talking about One Drive and these repositories. 6:28 – Ed: We aren’t going to be mixing and matching. I used to work through GitHub. It’s exciting to see those people work close to me. 6:54 – Chuck. 6:59 – Ed: It has come a long way. 7:07 – Chuck: Beyond the FSF are we talking about other features or? 7:21 – Ed: We have unique features. We have branch policies. You can require that people do pole request. You have to use pole request and your CI has to pass and things like that. I think there is a lot of richness in our auditing. We have enterprise focus. At its core it still is Git. We can all interoperate. 8:17 – Chuck. 8:37 – Ed: You just can’t set it up with Apache. You have to figure it out. 8:51 – Chuck: The method of pushing and pulling. 9:06 – Chuck: You can try DevOps for free up to 5 users and unlimited private repos. People are interested in this because GitHub makes you pay for that. 9:38 – Ed and Chuck continue to talk. 9:50 – Ed: Pipelines is the most interesting thing we are working on. We have revamped the entire experience. Build and release. It’s easy to get started. We have a visual designer. Super helpful – super straightforward. Releases once your code is built – get it out to production say for example Azure. It’s the important thing to get your code out there. 10:55 – Chuck: How can someone start with this? 11:00 – Ed: Depends on where your repository is. It will look at your code. “Oh, I know what that is, I know how to build that!” Maybe everyone isn’t doing everything with JavaScript. If you are using DotNet then it will know. 12:05 – Chuck: What if I am using both a backend and a frontend? 12:11 – Ed: One repository? That’s when you will have to do a little hand packing on the... There are different opportunities there. If you have a bash script that does it for you. If not, then you can orchestrate it. Reduce the time it takes. If it’s an open source project; there’s 2 – what are you going to do with the other 8? You’d be surprised – people try to sneak that in there. 13:30 – Chuck: It seems like continuous integration isn’t a whole lot complicated. 13:39 – Ed: I am a simple guy that’s how I do it. You can do advanced stuff, though. The Cake Build system – they are doing some crazy things. We have got Windows, Lennox, and others. Are you building for Raspberries Pies, then okay, do this... It’s not just running a script. 15:00 – Chuck: People do get pretty complicated if they want. It can get complicated. Who knows? 15:26 – Chuck:  How much work do you have to do to set-up a Pipeline like that? 15:37 – Ed answers the question in detail. 16:03 – Chuck asks a question. 16:12 – Ed: Now this is where it gets contentious. If one fails... Our default task out of the box... 16:56 – Chuck: If you want 2 steps you can (like me who is crazy). 17:05 – Ed: Yes, I want to see if it failed. 17:17 – Chuck: Dude, writing code is hard. Once you have it built and tested – continuous deployment. 17:33 – Ed: It’s very easy. It’s super straightforward, it doesn’t have to be Azure (although I hope it is!). Ed continues this conversation. 18:43 – Chuck: And it just pulls it? 18:49 – Ed: Don’t poke holes into your firewall. We do give you a lot of flexibility 19:04 – Chuck: VPN credentials? 19:10 – Ed: Just run the... 19:25 – Chuck comments. 19:36 – Ed: ...Take that Zip... 20:02 – Ed: Once the planets are finely aligned then...it will just pull from it. 20:25 – Chuck: I host my stuff on Digital Ocean. 20:46 – Ed: It’s been awhile since I played with... 20:55 – Chuck. 20:59 – Ed and Chuck go back and forth with different situations and hypothetical situations. 21:10 – Ed: What is Phoenix? 21:20 – Chuck explains it. 21:25 – Ed: Here is what we probably don’t have is a lot of ERLANG support. 22:41 – Advertisement. 23:31 – Chuck: Let’s just say it’s a possibility. We took the strip down node and... 23:49 – Ed: I think it’s going to happen. 23:55 – Ed: Exactly. 24:02 – Chuck: Testing against Azure services. So, it’s one thing to run on my machine but it’s another thing when other things connect nicely with an Azure set-up. Does it connect natively once it’s in the Azure cloud? 24:35 – Ed: It should, but there are so many services, so I don’t want to say that everything is identical. We will say yes with an asterisk. 25:07 – Chuck: With continuous deployment... 25:41 – Ed: As an example: I have a CD Pipeline for my website. Every time I merge into master... Ed continues this hypothetical situation with full details. Check it out! 27:03 – Chuck: You probably can do just about anything – deploy by Tweet! 27:15 – Ed: You can stop the deployment if people on Twitter start complaining. 27:40 – Chuck: That is awesome! IF it is something you care about – and if it’s worth the time – then why not? If you don’t have to think about it then great. I have mentioned this before: Am I solving interesting problems? What projects do I want to work on? What kinds of contributions do I really want to contribute to open source? That’s the thing – if you have all these tools that are set-up then your process, how do you work on what, and remove the pain points then you can just write code so people can use! That’s the power of this – because it catches the bug before I have to catch it – then that saves me time. 30:08 – Ed: That’s the dream of computers is that the computers are supposed to make OUR lives easier. IF we can do that and catch those bugs before you catch it then you are saving time. Finding bugs as quickly as possible it avoids downtime and messy deployments. 31:03 – Chuck: Then you can use time for coding style and other things. I can take mental shortcuts. 31:37 – Ed: The other thing you can do is avoiding security problems. If a static code analysis tool catches an integer overflow then... 32:30 – Chuck adds his comments. Chuck: You can set your policy to block it or ignore it. Then you are running these tools to run security. There are third-party tools that do security analysis on your code. Do you integrate with those? 33:00 – Ed: Yep. My favorite is WhiteSource. It knows all of the open source and third-party tools. It can scan your code and... 34:05 – Chuck: It works with a lot of languages. 34:14 – Ed. 34:25 – Chuck: A lot of JavaScript developers are getting into mobile development, like Ionic, and others. You have all these systems out there for different stages for writing for mobile. Android, windows Phone, Blackberry... 35:04 – Ed: Let’s throw out Blackberry builds. We will ignore it. Mac OS dies a fine job. That’s why we have all of those. 35:29 – Chuck: But I want to run my tests, too! 35:36 – Ed: I really like to use App Center. It is ultimately incredible to see all the tests you can run. 36:29 – Chuck: The deployment is different, though, right? 36:40 – Ed: I have a friend who clicks a button in... Azure DevOps. 37:00 – Chuck: I like to remind people that this isn’t a new product. 37:15 – Ed: Yes, Azure DevOps. 37:24 – Chuck: Any new features that are coming out? 37:27 – Ed: We took a little break, but... 37:47 – Ed: We will pick back up once Ignite is over. We have a timeline on our website when we expect to launch some new features, and some are secret, so keep checking out the website. 39:07 – Chuck: What is the interplay between Azure DevOps and Visual Studio Code? Because they have plugins for freaking everything. I am sure there is something there that... 39:30 – Ed: I am a VI guy and I’m like 90% sure there is something there. You are an eMac’s guy? The way I think about it is through Git right out of the box. Yes, I think there are better things out there for integration. I know we have a lot of great things in Visual Code, because I worked with it. 40:45 – Chuck: Yes, people can look for extensions and see what the capabilities are. Chuck talks about code editor and tools.  41:28 – Ed: ... we have been pulling that out as quickly as possible. We do have IE extensions, I am sure there is something for VS Code – but it’s not where I want to spend my time. 42:02 – Chuck: Yes, sure. 42:07 – Ed: But everyone is different – they won’t work the way that I work. So there’s that. 42:30 – Ed: That Chuck. 42:36 – Chuck: Where do people get news? 42:42 – Ed: Go to here! 42:54 – Chuck: Where do people find you? 43:00 – Ed: Twitter! 43:07 – Chuck: Let’s do Picks! 43:20 – Advertisement – Fresh Books! Links: GitHub Microsoft’s Azure Microsoft’s Pipeline Azure DevOps Erlang WhiteSource Chuck’s Twitter Ed Thomson’s Twitter Ed Thomson’s GitHub Ed Thomson’s Website Ed Thomson’s LinkedIn Picks: Ed Podcast - All Things Git

Sponsors: KendoUI Sentry use the code "devchat" for $100 credit Clubhouse Panel: Charles Max Wood Special Guests: Ed Thomson In this episode, the Charles speaks with Ed Thomson who is a Program Manager at Azure through Microsoft, Developer, and Open Source Maintainer. Ed and Chuck discuss in full detail about Azure DevOps! Check out today’s episode to hear its new features and other exciting news! Show Topics: 0:59 – Live at Microsoft Ignite 1:03 – Ed: Hi! I am a Program Manager at Azure. 1:28 – Rewind 2 episodes to hear more about Azure DevOps! 1:51 – Ed: One of the moves from Pipelines to DevOps – they could still adopt Pipelines. Now that they are separate services – it’s great. 2:38 – Chuck talks about features he does and doesn’t use. 2:54 – Ed. 3:00 – Chuck: Repos and Pipelines. I am going to dive right in. Let’s talk about Repos. Microsoft just acquired GitHub. 3:18 – Ed: Technically we have not officially acquired GitHub. 3:34 – Chuck: It’s not done. It’s the end of September now. 3:55 – Ed: They will remain the same thing for a while. GitHub is the home for open source. Repos – we use it in Microsoft. Repositories are huge. There are 4,000 engineers working in these repositories. Everyone works in his or her own little area, and you have to work together. You have to do all this engineering to get there. We bit a tool and it basically if you run clone... Ed continues to talk about this topic. He is talking about One Drive and these repositories. 6:28 – Ed: We aren’t going to be mixing and matching. I used to work through GitHub. It’s exciting to see those people work close to me. 6:54 – Chuck. 6:59 – Ed: It has come a long way. 7:07 – Chuck: Beyond the FSF are we talking about other features or? 7:21 – Ed: We have unique features. We have branch policies. You can require that people do pole request. You have to use pole request and your CI has to pass and things like that. I think there is a lot of richness in our auditing. We have enterprise focus. At its core it still is Git. We can all interoperate. 8:17 – Chuck. 8:37 – Ed: You just can’t set it up with Apache. You have to figure it out. 8:51 – Chuck: The method of pushing and pulling. 9:06 – Chuck: You can try DevOps for free up to 5 users and unlimited private repos. People are interested in this because GitHub makes you pay for that. 9:38 – Ed and Chuck continue to talk. 9:50 – Ed: Pipelines is the most interesting thing we are working on. We have revamped the entire experience. Build and release. It’s easy to get started. We have a visual designer. Super helpful – super straightforward. Releases once your code is built – get it out to production say for example Azure. It’s the important thing to get your code out there. 10:55 – Chuck: How can someone start with this? 11:00 – Ed: Depends on where your repository is. It will look at your code. “Oh, I know what that is, I know how to build that!” Maybe everyone isn’t doing everything with JavaScript. If you are using DotNet then it will know. 12:05 – Chuck: What if I am using both a backend and a frontend? 12:11 – Ed: One repository? That’s when you will have to do a little hand packing on the... There are different opportunities there. If you have a bash script that does it for you. If not, then you can orchestrate it. Reduce the time it takes. If it’s an open source project; there’s 2 – what are you going to do with the other 8? You’d be surprised – people try to sneak that in there. 13:30 – Chuck: It seems like continuous integration isn’t a whole lot complicated. 13:39 – Ed: I am a simple guy that’s how I do it. You can do advanced stuff, though. The Cake Build system – they are doing some crazy things. We have got Windows, Lennox, and others. Are you building for Raspberries Pies, then okay, do this... It’s not just running a script. 15:00 – Chuck: People do get pretty complicated if they want. It can get complicated. Who knows? 15:26 – Chuck:  How much work do you have to do to set-up a Pipeline like that? 15:37 – Ed answers the question in detail. 16:03 – Chuck asks a question. 16:12 – Ed: Now this is where it gets contentious. If one fails... Our default task out of the box... 16:56 – Chuck: If you want 2 steps you can (like me who is crazy). 17:05 – Ed: Yes, I want to see if it failed. 17:17 – Chuck: Dude, writing code is hard. Once you have it built and tested – continuous deployment. 17:33 – Ed: It’s very easy. It’s super straightforward, it doesn’t have to be Azure (although I hope it is!). Ed continues this conversation. 18:43 – Chuck: And it just pulls it? 18:49 – Ed: Don’t poke holes into your firewall. We do give you a lot of flexibility 19:04 – Chuck: VPN credentials? 19:10 – Ed: Just run the... 19:25 – Chuck comments. 19:36 – Ed: ...Take that Zip... 20:02 – Ed: Once the planets are finely aligned then...it will just pull from it. 20:25 – Chuck: I host my stuff on Digital Ocean. 20:46 – Ed: It’s been awhile since I played with... 20:55 – Chuck. 20:59 – Ed and Chuck go back and forth with different situations and hypothetical situations. 21:10 – Ed: What is Phoenix? 21:20 – Chuck explains it. 21:25 – Ed: Here is what we probably don’t have is a lot of ERLANG support. 22:41 – Advertisement. 23:31 – Chuck: Let’s just say it’s a possibility. We took the strip down node and... 23:49 – Ed: I think it’s going to happen. 23:55 – Ed: Exactly. 24:02 – Chuck: Testing against Azure services. So, it’s one thing to run on my machine but it’s another thing when other things connect nicely with an Azure set-up. Does it connect natively once it’s in the Azure cloud? 24:35 – Ed: It should, but there are so many services, so I don’t want to say that everything is identical. We will say yes with an asterisk. 25:07 – Chuck: With continuous deployment... 25:41 – Ed: As an example: I have a CD Pipeline for my website. Every time I merge into master... Ed continues this hypothetical situation with full details. Check it out! 27:03 – Chuck: You probably can do just about anything – deploy by Tweet! 27:15 – Ed: You can stop the deployment if people on Twitter start complaining. 27:40 – Chuck: That is awesome! IF it is something you care about – and if it’s worth the time – then why not? If you don’t have to think about it then great. I have mentioned this before: Am I solving interesting problems? What projects do I want to work on? What kinds of contributions do I really want to contribute to open source? That’s the thing – if you have all these tools that are set-up then your process, how do you work on what, and remove the pain points then you can just write code so people can use! That’s the power of this – because it catches the bug before I have to catch it – then that saves me time. 30:08 – Ed: That’s the dream of computers is that the computers are supposed to make OUR lives easier. IF we can do that and catch those bugs before you catch it then you are saving time. Finding bugs as quickly as possible it avoids downtime and messy deployments. 31:03 – Chuck: Then you can use time for coding style and other things. I can take mental shortcuts. 31:37 – Ed: The other thing you can do is avoiding security problems. If a static code analysis tool catches an integer overflow then... 32:30 – Chuck adds his comments. Chuck: You can set your policy to block it or ignore it. Then you are running these tools to run security. There are third-party tools that do security analysis on your code. Do you integrate with those? 33:00 – Ed: Yep. My favorite is WhiteSource. It knows all of the open source and third-party tools. It can scan your code and... 34:05 – Chuck: It works with a lot of languages. 34:14 – Ed. 34:25 – Chuck: A lot of JavaScript developers are getting into mobile development, like Ionic, and others. You have all these systems out there for different stages for writing for mobile. Android, windows Phone, Blackberry... 35:04 – Ed: Let’s throw out Blackberry builds. We will ignore it. Mac OS dies a fine job. That’s why we have all of those. 35:29 – Chuck: But I want to run my tests, too! 35:36 – Ed: I really like to use App Center. It is ultimately incredible to see all the tests you can run. 36:29 – Chuck: The deployment is different, though, right? 36:40 – Ed: I have a friend who clicks a button in... Azure DevOps. 37:00 – Chuck: I like to remind people that this isn’t a new product. 37:15 – Ed: Yes, Azure DevOps. 37:24 – Chuck: Any new features that are coming out? 37:27 – Ed: We took a little break, but... 37:47 – Ed: We will pick back up once Ignite is over. We have a timeline on our website when we expect to launch some new features, and some are secret, so keep checking out the website. 39:07 – Chuck: What is the interplay between Azure DevOps and Visual Studio Code? Because they have plugins for freaking everything. I am sure there is something there that... 39:30 – Ed: I am a VI guy and I’m like 90% sure there is something there. You are an eMac’s guy? The way I think about it is through Git right out of the box. Yes, I think there are better things out there for integration. I know we have a lot of great things in Visual Code, because I worked with it. 40:45 – Chuck: Yes, people can look for extensions and see what the capabilities are. Chuck talks about code editor and tools.  41:28 – Ed: ... we have been pulling that out as quickly as possible. We do have IE extensions, I am sure there is something for VS Code – but it’s not where I want to spend my time. 42:02 – Chuck: Yes, sure. 42:07 – Ed: But everyone is different – they won’t work the way that I work. So there’s that. 42:30 – Ed: That Chuck. 42:36 – Chuck: Where do people get news? 42:42 – Ed: Go to here! 42:54 – Chuck: Where do people find you? 43:00 – Ed: Twitter! 43:07 – Chuck: Let’s do Picks! 43:20 – Advertisement – Fresh Books! Links: GitHub Microsoft’s Azure Microsoft’s Pipeline Azure DevOps Erlang WhiteSource Chuck’s Twitter Ed Thomson’s Twitter Ed Thomson’s GitHub Ed Thomson’s Website Ed Thomson’s LinkedIn Picks: Ed Podcast - All Things Git

Panel: Charles Max Woods Special Guests: Donovan Brown In this episode, the Charles speaks with Donovan Brown. He is a principal DevOps Manager with Microsoft with a background in application development. He also runs one of the nation’s fastest growing online registration sites for motorsports events DLBRACING.com. When he is not writing software, he races cars for fun. Listen to today’s episode where Chuck and Donovan talk about DevOps, Azure, Python, Angular, React, Vue, and much, much more! Show Topics: 1:41 – Chuck: The philosophies around DevOps. Just to give you an idea, I have been thinking about what I want to do with the podcasts. Freedom to work on what we want or freedom to work where we want, etc. Then that goes into things we don’t want to do, like fix bugs, etc. How does Microsoft DevOps to choose what they want to do? 2:37 – Guest: We want to automate as much as we can so the developer has less work. As a developer I want to commit code, do another task, rinse and repeating. Minutes and not even hours later then people are tweeting about the next best thing. Do what you want, where you want. Code any language you want. 4:15 – Chuck: What has changed? 4:19 – Guest: The branding changed. The name wasn’t the most favorite among the people. The word “visual” was a concerned. What we have noticed that Azure will let me run my code no matter where I am. If you want to run Python or others it can run in Azure. People didn’t need all of it. It comes with depositories, project management, and so much more! People could feel clumsy because there is so much stuff. We can streamline that now, and you can turn off that feature so you don’t have a heart attack. Maybe you are using us for some features not all of them – cool. 7:40 – Chuck: With deployments and other things – we don’t talk about the process for development a lot. 8:00 – Guest talks about the things that can help out with that. Guest: Our process is going to help guide you. We have that all built into the Azure tab feature. They feel and act differently. I tell all the people all the time that it’s brilliant stuff. There are 3 different templates. The templates actually change over the language. You don’t have to do mental math. 9:57 – Chuck: Just talking about the process. Which of these things we work on next when I’ve got a bug, or a ... 10:20 – Guest: The board system works like for example you have a bug. The steps to reproduce that bug, so that there is no question what go into this specific field. Let the anatomy of the feature do it itself! 11:54 – Chuck comments. 12:26 – Chuck: Back to the feature. Creating the user stories is a different process than X. 12:44 – Guest – You have a hierarchy then, right? Also what is really cool is we have case state management. I can click on this and I expect this to happen... These are actual tasks that I can run. 13:52 – Chuck: Once you have those tests written can you pull those into your CI? 14:00 – Guest: “Manual tests x0.” Guest dives into the question. 14:47 – I expect my team to write those test cases. The answer to your question is yes and no. We got so good at it that we found something that didn’t even exist, yet. 16:19 – Guest: As a developer it might be mind 16:29 – Chuck: I fixed this bug 4x, I wished I had CI to help me. 16:46 – Guest: You get a bug, then you fix a code, etc., etc. You don’t know that this original bug just came back. Fix it again. Am I in Groundhog Day? They are related to each other. You don’t have a unit test to tell you. When you get that very first bug – write a unit test. It will make you quicker at fixing it. A unit test you can write really fast over, and over, again. The test is passing. What do you do? Test it. Write the code to fix that unit test. You can see that how these relate to each other. That’s the beauty in it. 18:33 – Chuck: 90% of the unit tests I write – even 95% of the time they pass. It’s the 5% you would have no idea that it’s related. I can remember broad strokes of the code that I wrote, but 3 months down the road I can’t remember. 19:14 – Guest: If you are in a time crunch – I don’t have time for this unit test. Guest gives us a hypothetical situation to show how unit tests really can help. 20:25 – Make it muscle memory to unit test. I am a faster developer with the unit tests. 20:45 – Chuck: In the beginning it took forever. Now it’s just how I write software now. It guides my thought process. 21:06 – Guest: Yes! I agree. 22:00 – Guest: Don’t do the unit tests 22:10 – Chuck: Other place is when you write a new feature,...go through the process. Write unit tests for the things that you’ve touched. Expand your level of comfort. DevOps – we are talking about processes. Sounds like your DevOps is a flexible tool. Some people are looking for A METHOD. Like a business coach. Does Azure DevOps do that? 23:13 – Guest: Azure DevOps Projects. YoTeam. Note.js, Java and others are mentioned by the Guest. 25:00 – Code Badges’ Advertisement 25:48 – Chuck: I am curious – 2 test sweets for Angular or React or Vue. How does that work? 26:05 – Guest: So that is Jasmine or Mocha? So it really doesn’t matter. I’m a big fan of Mocha. It tests itself. I install local to my project alone – I can do it on any CI system in the world. YoTeam is not used in your pipeline. Install 2 parts – Yo and Generator – Team. Answer the questions and it’s awesome. I’ve done conferences in New Zealand. 28:37 – Chuck: Why would I go anywhere else? 28:44 – Guest: YoTeam  was the idea of... 28:57 – Check out Guest 29:02 – Guest: I want Donovan in a box. If I weren’t there then the show wouldn’t exist today. 29:40 – Chuck: Asks a question. 29:46 – Guest: 5 different verticals. Check out this timestamp to see what Donovan says the 5 different verticals are. Pipelines is 1 of the 5. 30:55 – Chuck: Yep – it works on my Mac. 31:04 – Guest: We also have Test Plant and Artifacts. 31:42 – Chuck: Can you resolve that on your developer machine? 31:46 – Guest: Yes, absolutely! There is my private repository and... 33:14 – Guest: *People not included in box.* 33:33 – Guest: It’s people driven. We guide you through the process. The value is the most important part and people is the hardest part, but once on 33:59 – Chuck: I am listening to this show and I want to try this out. I want a demo setup so I can show my boss. How do I show him that it works? 34:27 – Azure.com/devops – that is a great landing page. How can I get a demo going? You can say here is my account – and they can put a demo into your account. I would not do a demo that this is cool. We start you for free. Create an account. Let the CI be the proof. It’s your job to do this, because it will make you more efficient. You need me to be using these tools. 36:11 – Chuck comments. 36:17 – Guest: Say you are on a team of developers and love GitHub and things that integration is stupid, but how many people would disagree about... 38:02 – The reports prove it for themselves. 38:20 – Chuck: You can get started for free – so when do you have to start paying for it? 38:31 – Guest: Get 4 of your buddies and then need more people it’s $6 a month. 39:33 – Chuck adds in comments. If this is free? 39:43 – Guest goes into the details about plans and such for this tool.  40:17 – Chuck: How easy it is to migrate away from it? 40:22 – Guest: It’s GITHub. 40:30 – Chuck: People are looing data on their CI. 40:40 – Guest: You can comb that information there over the past 4 years but I don’t know if any system would let you export that history. 41:08 – Chuck: Yeah, you are right. 41:16 – Guest adds more into this topic. 41:25 – Chuck: Yeah it’s all into the machine. 41:38 – Chuck: Good deal. 41:43 – Guest: It’s like a drug. I would never leave it. I was using TFS before Microsoft. 42:08 – Chuck: Other question: continuous deployment. 42:56 – When I say every platform, I mean every platform: mobile devices, AWS, Azure, etc. Anything you can do from a command line you can do from our build and release system. PowerShell you don’t have to abandon it. 45:20 – Guest: I can’t remember what that tool is called! 45:33 – Guest: Anything you can do from a command line. Before firewall. Anything you want. 45:52 – Guest: I love my job because I get to help developers. 46:03 – Chuck: What do you think the biggest mistake people are doing? 46:12 – Guest: They are trying to do it all at once. Fix that one little thing. It’s instant value with no risks whatsoever. Go setup and it takes 15 minutes total. Now that we have this continuous build, now let’s go and deploy it. Don’t dream up what you think your pipeline should look like. Do one thing at a time. What hurts the most that it’s “buggy.” Let’s add that to the pipeline. It’s in your pipeline today, what hurts the most, and don’t do it all at once. 49:14 – Chuck: I thought you’d say: I don’t have the time. 49:25 – Guest: Say you work on it 15 minutes a day. 3 days in – 45 minutes in you have a CSI system that works forever. Yes I agree because people think they don’t “have the time.” 50:18 – Guest continues this conversation. How do you not have CI? Just install it – don’t ask. Just do the right thing. 50:40 – Chuck: I free-lanced and setup CI for my team. After a month, getting warned, we had a monitor up on the screen and it was either RED or GREEN. It was basically – hey this hurts and now we know. Either we are going to have pain or not have pain. 51:41 – Guest continues this conversation. Have pain – we should only have pain once or twice a year. Rollback. If you only have it every 6 months, that’s not too bad. The pain will motivate you. 52:40 – Azure.com/devops. Azure DevOps’ Twitter 53:22 – Picks! 53:30 – Advertisement – Get a Coder Job Links: Donovan Brown’s GitHub Donovan Brown’s Twitter Donovan Brown Donovan Brown – Channel 9 Donovan Brown – Microsoft Azure YoTeam Azure.com/devops GitHub Azure DevOps’ Twitter Sponsors: Angular Boot Camp Digital Ocean Get a Coder Job course Picks: Charles Jet Blue Beta Testers Donovan YoTeam VSTeam Powershell Module

Panel: Charles Max Wood Special Guests: Ed Thomson In this episode, the Charles speaks with Ed Thomson who is a Program Manager at Azure through Microsoft, Developer, and Open Source Maintainer. Ed and Chuck discuss in full detail about Azure DevOps! Check out today’s episode to hear its new features and other exciting news! Show Topics: 0:59 – Live at Microsoft Ignite 1:03 – Ed: Hi! I am a Program Manager at Azure. 1:28 – Rewind 2 episodes to hear more about Azure DevOps! 1:51 – Ed: One of the moves from Pipelines to DevOps – they could still adopt Pipelines. Now that they are separate services – it’s great. 2:38 – Chuck talks about features he does and doesn’t use. 2:54 – Ed. 3:00 – Chuck: Repos and Pipelines. I am going to dive right in. Let’s talk about Repos. Microsoft just acquired GitHub. 3:18 – Ed: Technically we have not officially acquired GitHub. 3:34 – Chuck: It’s not done. It’s the end of September now. 3:55 – Ed: They will remain the same thing for a while. GitHub is the home for open source. Repos – we use it in Microsoft. Repositories are huge. There are 4,000 engineers working in these repositories. Everyone works in his or her own little area, and you have to work together. You have to do all this engineering to get there. We bit a tool and it basically if you run clone... Ed continues to talk about this topic. He is talking about One Drive and these repositories. 6:28 – Ed: We aren’t going to be mixing and matching. I used to work through GitHub. It’s exciting to see those people work close to me. 6:54 – Chuck. 6:59 – Ed: It has come a long way. 7:07 – Chuck: Beyond the FSF are we talking about other features or? 7:21 – Ed: We have unique features. We have branch policies. You can require that people do pole request. You have to use pole request and your CI has to pass and things like that. I think there is a lot of richness in our auditing. We have enterprise focus. At its core it still is Git. We can all interoperate. 8:17 – Chuck. 8:37 – Ed: You just can’t set it up with Apache. You have to figure it out. 8:51 – Chuck: The method of pushing and pulling. 9:06 – Chuck: You can try DevOps for free up to 5 users and unlimited private repos. People are interested in this because GitHub makes you pay for that. 9:38 – Ed and Chuck continue to talk. 9:50 – Ed: Pipelines is the most interesting thing we are working on. We have revamped the entire experience. Build and release. It’s easy to get started. We have a visual designer. Super helpful – super straightforward. Releases once your code is built – get it out to production say for example Azure. It’s the important thing to get your code out there. 10:55 – Chuck: How can someone start with this? 11:00 – Ed: Depends on where your repository is. It will look at your code. “Oh, I know what that is, I know how to build that!” Maybe everyone isn’t doing everything with JavaScript. If you are using DotNet then it will know. 12:05 – Chuck: What if I am using both a backend and a frontend? 12:11 – Ed: One repository? That’s when you will have to do a little hand packing on the... There are different opportunities there. If you have a bash script that does it for you. If not, then you can orchestrate it. Reduce the time it takes. If it’s an open source project; there’s 2 – what are you going to do with the other 8? You’d be surprised – people try to sneak that in there. 13:30 – Chuck: It seems like continuous integration isn’t a whole lot complicated. 13:39 – Ed: I am a simple guy that’s how I do it. You can do advanced stuff, though. The Cake Build system – they are doing some crazy things. We have got Windows, Lennox, and others. Are you building for Raspberries Pies, then okay, do this... It’s not just running a script. 15:00 – Chuck: People do get pretty complicated if they want. It can get complicated. Who knows? 15:26 – Chuck:  How much work do you have to do to set-up a Pipeline like that? 15:37 – Ed answers the question in detail. 16:03 – Chuck asks a question. 16:12 – Ed: Now this is where it gets contentious. If one fails... Our default task out of the box... 16:56 – Chuck: If you want 2 steps you can (like me who is crazy). 17:05 – Ed: Yes, I want to see if it failed. 17:17 – Chuck: Dude, writing code is hard. Once you have it built and tested – continuous deployment. 17:33 – Ed: It’s very easy. It’s super straightforward, it doesn’t have to be Azure (although I hope it is!). Ed continues this conversation. 18:43 – Chuck: And it just pulls it? 18:49 – Ed: Don’t poke holes into your firewall. We do give you a lot of flexibility 19:04 – Chuck: VPN credentials? 19:10 – Ed: Just run the... 19:25 – Chuck comments. 19:36 – Ed: ...Take that Zip... 20:02 – Ed: Once the planets are finely aligned then...it will just pull from it. 20:25 – Chuck: I host my stuff on Digital Ocean. 20:46 – Ed: It’s been awhile since I played with... 20:55 – Chuck. 20:59 – Ed and Chuck go back and forth with different situations and hypothetical situations. 21:10 – Ed: What is Phoenix? 21:20 – Chuck explains it. 21:25 – Ed: Here is what we probably don’t have is a lot of ERLANG support. 22:41 – Advertisement. 23:31 – Chuck: Let’s just say it’s a possibility. We took the strip down node and... 23:49 – Ed: I think it’s going to happen. 23:55 – Ed: Exactly. 24:02 – Chuck: Testing against Azure services. So, it’s one thing to run on my machine but it’s another thing when other things connect nicely with an Azure set-up. Does it connect natively once it’s in the Azure cloud? 24:35 – Ed: It should, but there are so many services, so I don’t want to say that everything is identical. We will say yes with an asterisk. 25:07 – Chuck: With continuous deployment... 25:41 – Ed: As an example: I have a CD Pipeline for my website. Every time I merge into master... Ed continues this hypothetical situation with full details. Check it out! 27:03 – Chuck: You probably can do just about anything – deploy by Tweet! 27:15 – Ed: You can stop the deployment if people on Twitter start complaining. 27:40 – Chuck: That is awesome! IF it is something you care about – and if it’s worth the time – then why not? If you don’t have to think about it then great. I have mentioned this before: Am I solving interesting problems? What projects do I want to work on? What kinds of contributions do I really want to contribute to open source? That’s the thing – if you have all these tools that are set-up then your process, how do you work on what, and remove the pain points then you can just write code so people can use! That’s the power of this – because it catches the bug before I have to catch it – then that saves me time. 30:08 – Ed: That’s the dream of computers is that the computers are supposed to make OUR lives easier. IF we can do that and catch those bugs before you catch it then you are saving time. Finding bugs as quickly as possible it avoids downtime and messy deployments. 31:03 – Chuck: Then you can use time for coding style and other things. I can take mental shortcuts. 31:37 – Ed: The other thing you can do is avoiding security problems. If a static code analysis tool catches an integer overflow then... 32:30 – Chuck adds his comments. Chuck: You can set your policy to block it or ignore it. Then you are running these tools to run security. There are third-party tools that do security analysis on your code. Do you integrate with those? 33:00 – Ed: Yep. My favorite is WhiteSource. It knows all of the open source and third-party tools. It can scan your code and... 34:05 – Chuck: It works with a lot of languages. 34:14 – Ed. 34:25 – Chuck: A lot of JavaScript developers are getting into mobile development, like Ionic, and others. You have all these systems out there for different stages for writing for mobile. Android, windows Phone, Blackberry... 35:04 – Ed: Let’s throw out Blackberry builds. We will ignore it. Mac OS dies a fine job. That’s why we have all of those. 35:29 – Chuck: But I want to run my tests, too! 35:36 – Ed: I really like to use App Center. It is ultimately incredible to see all the tests you can run. 36:29 – Chuck: The deployment is different, though, right? 36:40 – Ed: I have a friend who clicks a button in... Azure DevOps. 37:00 – Chuck: I like to remind people that this isn’t a new product. 37:15 – Ed: Yes, Azure DevOps. 37:24 – Chuck: Any new features that are coming out? 37:27 – Ed: We took a little break, but... 37:47 – Ed: We will pick back up once Ignite is over. We have a timeline on our website when we expect to launch some new features, and some are secret, so keep checking out the website. 39:07 – Chuck: What is the interplay between Azure DevOps and Visual Studio Code? Because they have plugins for freaking everything. I am sure there is something there that... 39:30 – Ed: I am a VI guy and I’m like 90% sure there is something there. You are an eMac’s guy? The way I think about it is through Git right out of the box. Yes, I think there are better things out there for integration. I know we have a lot of great things in Visual Code, because I worked with it. 40:45 – Chuck: Yes, people can look for extensions and see what the capabilities are. Chuck talks about code editor and tools.  41:28 – Ed: ... we have been pulling that out as quickly as possible. We do have IE extensions, I am sure there is something for VS Code – but it’s not where I want to spend my time. 42:02 – Chuck: Yes, sure. 42:07 – Ed: But everyone is different – they won’t work the way that I work. So there’s that. 42:30 – Ed: That Chuck. 42:36 – Chuck: Where do people get news? 42:42 – Ed: Go to here! 42:54 – Chuck: Where do people find you? 43:00 – Ed: Twitter! 43:07 – Chuck: Let’s do Picks! 43:20 – Advertisement – Fresh Books! Links: GitHub Microsoft’s Azure Microsoft’s Pipeline Azure DevOps Erlang WhiteSource Chuck’s Twitter Ed Thomson’s Twitter Ed Thomson’s GitHub Ed Thomson’s Website Ed Thomson’s LinkedIn Sponsors: Angular Boot Camp Fresh Books Get a Coder Job Course Picks: Ed Podcast - All Things Git

Panel: Mark Ericksen Charles Max Wood Special Guest: Kamil Lelonek  In this episode of Elixir Mix, the panel talks with Kamil Lelonek who is a full-stack developer and programmer. Chuck, Mark, and Kamil talk about Elixir, Postgrex, databases, and so much more! Check it out! Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job!  0:48 – Chuck: Hello! Our panel today is Mark and myself. Friendly reminder to listeners: check out my show the DevRev. Our guest today is Kamil Lelonek! 1:23 – Guest. 1:43 – Chuck: Today, we are talking about databases. 1:55 – Guest. 3:10 – Mark: We have your blog that you wrote in our show notes. Talk about your experience with exploring these features? 3:39 – Chuck. 3:46 – Mark: I didn’t know those features are in Postgrex. Can you talk about your experience and your journey? 4:10 – Guest. 6:17 – Mark: I am curious, what problem were you trying to solve? 6:31 – Guest. 8:12 – Mark: I like you saying: rather than modifying the application code itself, you created a separate application. I think Elixir is a good fit for that – what’s your experience with this? 8:40 – Guest: I agree with this, but let’s think about it in the other way. 9:48 – Mark: Yeah I can see that. It’s good to be aware of the upsides and downsides. It’s an interesting idea. 10:40 – Guest. 11:38 – Chuck: My experience is mostly in Rails. The other way I have solved this problem is “pulling” but this way is more elegant. Before we have talked with Chris McCord about LiveVue. Is there a way to hook this handler up to LiveVue to stream the changes all the way up to the frontend of web application with Phoenix? 12:20 – Guest. 12:55 – Mark talks about Elixir and GenServer. 13:29 – Guest. 13:49 – Mark: Please go and read Kamil’s blog post because it’s simple and it’s written well! Mark: I think Elixir is a great usage for GenServers. 14:28 – Guest. 14:35 – Chuck: You setup a store procedure, which I don’t see a lot of people doing within the communities. How necessary is that store procedure that you’ve created there? 15:00 – Guest. 16:16 – Chuck: What if you want to do targeted notifications? 16:28 – Guest. 17:33 – Mark: I am curious if you have experimented with the practical limitations of this? Like at one point does it start to break down? 18:00 – Guest. 20:00 – Chuck: I will be honest I am kind of lazy. Outside of the general use I don’t go looking for these, but when I hear about them I say: wow! 20:09 – Guest. 20:57 – Chuck. 21:15 – Guest talks about solutions that he’s found. 22:08 – FreshBooks! 23:17 – Mark: What other kind of databases have you had experience with for comparison reasons? 23:40 – Guest. 24:56 – Mark: You talked about defaults and I want to come back to this topic. 25:08 – Mark asks Chuck a question. 25:12 – Chuck: I don’t know. 25:23 – Mark talks about the databases that his work utilizes. 26:45 – Mark and Chuck go back-and-forth. 27:49 – Guest mentions a solution to the before-mentioned problem that Mark gave. 28:47 – Mark: It can get messy. I don’t repose this as a permanent solution, but it allows you do a staged-migration. 29:15 – Chuck: Do you run into problems with Postgrex? Most technologies if you don’t run into problems you aren’t pushing it enough (at least that’s my experience). 29:29 – Guest answers the question. 30:26 – Mark talks about active, active, active. 31:14 – Guest. 33:25 – Mark: In Elixir, we talk about the things that are in the box and one thing that comes up is “mnesia.” Can you talk about this please? 33:47 – Guest talks about mnesia. 35:17 – Mark talks about mnesia some more. Mark: It is an available option (mnesia), but I don’t know if it’s something that people want when they are looking for something more traditional. 37:04 – Guest. 37:30 – Mark: Yeah something people should be aware of. If you are encountering problems it’s good to know the different tools that are out there and available. 38:42 – Mark: One question: What are some of your favorite features of Postgrex? 38:57 – Guest. 41:08 – Mark talks about Postgrex’s features. 42:14 – Guest. 43:10 – Mark: I had a case where Elixir and Erlang and you can convert term to binary and binary to term. I took some data structure and converted it to a binary and using Ecto and tell it: serialize this and when it loads back out it is a native Elixir type. It’s not always the right solution, but in my cases it actually worked. 43:59 – Guest talks about a library that he wrote back-in-the-day. 44:40 – Chuck: Anything else? Nope? Okay – Picks! 44:52 – Ad: Lootcrate.com END – CacheFly! Links: Ruby Elixir Elixir: GenServer GenServers Elm JavaScript Visual Studio Code React “How to use LISTEN and NOTIFY PostgreSQL commands in Elixir?" By Kamil Lelonek Guest’s Medium Blog Postgrex.Notifications Redis.io Event Store PostgreSQL MongoDB Erlang: mnesia GitHub: cachex GitHub: meh / amnesia PostGIS When to use Ecto, when to use Mnesia PostgreSQL Ecto.Type GitHub: Exnumerator YouTube: Entreprogrammers Kamil’s Twitter Sponsors: Loot Crate Get a Coder Job! Fresh Books CacheFly Picks: Mark Being professionally proactive! Chuck Get A Coder Job eBook Challenge: Pomodoro Technique Kamil Book: Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman My Blog My Site

Panel: Charles Max Woods Special Guests: Donovan Brown In this episode, the Charles speaks with Donovan Brown. He is a principal DevOps Manager with Microsoft with a background in application development. He also runs one of the nation’s fastest growing online registration sites for motorsports events DLBRACING.com. When he is not writing software, he races cars for fun. Listen to today’s episode where Chuck and Donovan talk about DevOps, Azure, Python, Angular, React, Vue, and much, much more! Show Topics: 1:41 – Chuck: The philosophies around DevOps. Just to give you an idea, I have been thinking about what I want to do with the podcasts. Freedom to work on what we want or freedom to work where we want, etc. Then that goes into things we don’t want to do, like fix bugs, etc. How does Microsoft DevOps to choose what they want to do? 2:37 – Guest: We want to automate as much as we can so the developer has less work. As a developer I want to commit code, do another task, rinse and repeating. Minutes and not even hours later then people are tweeting about the next best thing. Do what you want, where you want. Code any language you want. 4:15 – Chuck: What has changed? 4:19 – Guest: The branding changed. The name wasn’t the most favorite among the people. The word “visual” was a concerned. What we have noticed that Azure will let me run my code no matter where I am. If you want to run Python or others it can run in Azure. People didn’t need all of it. It comes with depositories, project management, and so much more! People could feel clumsy because there is so much stuff. We can streamline that now, and you can turn off that feature so you don’t have a heart attack. Maybe you are using us for some features not all of them – cool. 7:40 – Chuck: With deployments and other things – we don’t talk about the process for development a lot. 8:00 – Guest talks about the things that can help out with that. Guest: Our process is going to help guide you. We have that all built into the Azure tab feature. They feel and act differently. I tell all the people all the time that it’s brilliant stuff. There are 3 different templates. The templates actually change over the language. You don’t have to do mental math. 9:57 – Chuck: Just talking about the process. Which of these things we work on next when I’ve got a bug, or a ... 10:20 – Guest: The board system works like for example you have a bug. The steps to reproduce that bug, so that there is no question what go into this specific field. Let the anatomy of the feature do it itself! 11:54 – Chuck comments. 12:26 – Chuck: Back to the feature. Creating the user stories is a different process than X. 12:44 – Guest – You have a hierarchy then, right? Also what is really cool is we have case state management. I can click on this and I expect this to happen... These are actual tasks that I can run. 13:52 – Chuck: Once you have those tests written can you pull those into your CI? 14:00 – Guest: “Manual tests x0.” Guest dives into the question. 14:47 – I expect my team to write those test cases. The answer to your question is yes and no. We got so good at it that we found something that didn’t even exist, yet. 16:19 – Guest: As a developer it might be mind 16:29 – Chuck: I fixed this bug 4x, I wished I had CI to help me. 16:46 – Guest: You get a bug, then you fix a code, etc., etc. You don’t know that this original bug just came back. Fix it again. Am I in Groundhog Day? They are related to each other. You don’t have a unit test to tell you. When you get that very first bug – write a unit test. It will make you quicker at fixing it. A unit test you can write really fast over, and over, again. The test is passing. What do you do? Test it. Write the code to fix that unit test. You can see that how these relate to each other. That’s the beauty in it. 18:33 – Chuck: 90% of the unit tests I write – even 95% of the time they pass. It’s the 5% you would have no idea that it’s related. I can remember broad strokes of the code that I wrote, but 3 months down the road I can’t remember. 19:14 – Guest: If you are in a time crunch – I don’t have time for this unit test. Guest gives us a hypothetical situation to show how unit tests really can help. 20:25 – Make it muscle memory to unit test. I am a faster developer with the unit tests. 20:45 – Chuck: In the beginning it took forever. Now it’s just how I write software now. It guides my thought process. 21:06 – Guest: Yes! I agree. 22:00 – Guest: Don’t do the unit tests 22:10 – Chuck: Other place is when you write a new feature,...go through the process. Write unit tests for the things that you’ve touched. Expand your level of comfort. DevOps – we are talking about processes. Sounds like your DevOps is a flexible tool. Some people are looking for A METHOD. Like a business coach. Does Azure DevOps do that? 23:13 – Guest: Azure DevOps Projects. YoTeam. Note.js, Java and others are mentioned by the Guest. 25:00 – Code Badges’ Advertisement 25:48 – Chuck: I am curious – 2 test sweets for Angular or React or Vue. How does that work? 26:05 – Guest: So that is Jasmine or Mocha? So it really doesn’t matter. I’m a big fan of Mocha. It tests itself. I install local to my project alone – I can do it on any CI system in the world. YoTeam is not used in your pipeline. Install 2 parts – Yo and Generator – Team. Answer the questions and it’s awesome. I’ve done conferences in New Zealand. 28:37 – Chuck: Why would I go anywhere else? 28:44 – Guest: YoTeam  was the idea of... 28:57 – Check out Guest 29:02 – Guest: I want Donovan in a box. If I weren’t there then the show wouldn’t exist today. 29:40 – Chuck: Asks a question. 29:46 – Guest: 5 different verticals. Check out this timestamp to see what Donovan says the 5 different verticals are. Pipelines is 1 of the 5. 30:55 – Chuck: Yep – it works on my Mac. 31:04 – Guest: We also have Test Plant and Artifacts. 31:42 – Chuck: Can you resolve that on your developer machine? 31:46 – Guest: Yes, absolutely! There is my private repository and... 33:14 – Guest: *People not included in box.* 33:33 – Guest: It’s people driven. We guide you through the process. The value is the most important part and people is the hardest part, but once on 33:59 – Chuck: I am listening to this show and I want to try this out. I want a demo setup so I can show my boss. How do I show him that it works? 34:27 – Azure.com/devops – that is a great landing page. How can I get a demo going? You can say here is my account – and they can put a demo into your account. I would not do a demo that this is cool. We start you for free. Create an account. Let the CI be the proof. It’s your job to do this, because it will make you more efficient. You need me to be using these tools. 36:11 – Chuck comments. 36:17 – Guest: Say you are on a team of developers and love GitHub and things that integration is stupid, but how many people would disagree about... 38:02 – The reports prove it for themselves. 38:20 – Chuck: You can get started for free – so when do you have to start paying for it? 38:31 – Guest: Get 4 of your buddies and then need more people it’s $6 a month. 39:33 – Chuck adds in comments. If this is free? 39:43 – Guest goes into the details about plans and such for this tool.  40:17 – Chuck: How easy it is to migrate away from it? 40:22 – Guest: It’s GITHub. 40:30 – Chuck: People are looing data on their CI. 40:40 – Guest: You can comb that information there over the past 4 years but I don’t know if any system would let you export that history. 41:08 – Chuck: Yeah, you are right. 41:16 – Guest adds more into this topic. 41:25 – Chuck: Yeah it’s all into the machine. 41:38 – Chuck: Good deal. 41:43 – Guest: It’s like a drug. I would never leave it. I was using TFS before Microsoft. 42:08 – Chuck: Other question: continuous deployment. 42:56 – When I say every platform, I mean every platform: mobile devices, AWS, Azure, etc. Anything you can do from a command line you can do from our build and release system. PowerShell you don’t have to abandon it. 45:20 – Guest: I can’t remember what that tool is called! 45:33 – Guest: Anything you can do from a command line. Before firewall. Anything you want. 45:52 – Guest: I love my job because I get to help developers. 46:03 – Chuck: What do you think the biggest mistake people are doing? 46:12 – Guest: They are trying to do it all at once. Fix that one little thing. It’s instant value with no risks whatsoever. Go setup and it takes 15 minutes total. Now that we have this continuous build, now let’s go and deploy it. Don’t dream up what you think your pipeline should look like. Do one thing at a time. What hurts the most that it’s “buggy.” Let’s add that to the pipeline. It’s in your pipeline today, what hurts the most, and don’t do it all at once. 49:14 – Chuck: I thought you’d say: I don’t have the time. 49:25 – Guest: Say you work on it 15 minutes a day. 3 days in – 45 minutes in you have a CSI system that works forever. Yes I agree because people think they don’t “have the time.” 50:18 – Guest continues this conversation. How do you not have CI? Just install it – don’t ask. Just do the right thing. 50:40 – Chuck: I free-lanced and setup CI for my team. After a month, getting warned, we had a monitor up on the screen and it was either RED or GREEN. It was basically – hey this hurts and now we know. Either we are going to have pain or not have pain. 51:41 – Guest continues this conversation. Have pain – we should only have pain once or twice a year. Rollback. If you only have it every 6 months, that’s not too bad. The pain will motivate you. 52:40 – Azure.com/devops. Azure DevOps’ Twitter 53:22 – Picks! 53:30 – Advertisement – Get a Coder Job Links: Donovan Brown’s GitHub Donovan Brown’s Twitter Donovan Brown Donovan Brown – Channel 9 Donovan Brown – Microsoft Azure YoTeam Azure.com/devops GitHub Azure DevOps’ Twitter Sponsors: Angular Boot Camp Digital Ocean Get a Coder Job course Picks: Charles Jet Blue Beta Testers Donovan YoTeam VSTeam Powershell Module

Panel: Mark Ericksen Charles Max Wood Special Guest: Kamil Lelonek  In this episode of Elixir Mix, the panel talks with Kamil Lelonek who is a full-stack developer and programmer. Chuck, Mark, and Kamil talk about Elixir, Postgrex, databases, and so much more! Check it out! Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job!  0:48 – Chuck: Hello! Our panel today is Mark and myself. Friendly reminder to listeners: check out my show the DevRev. Our guest today is Kamil Lelonek! 1:23 – Guest. 1:43 – Chuck: Today, we are talking about databases. 1:55 – Guest. 3:10 – Mark: We have your blog that you wrote in our show notes. Talk about your experience with exploring these features? 3:39 – Chuck. 3:46 – Mark: I didn’t know those features are in Postgrex. Can you talk about your experience and your journey? 4:10 – Guest. 6:17 – Mark: I am curious, what problem were you trying to solve? 6:31 – Guest. 8:12 – Mark: I like you saying: rather than modifying the application code itself, you created a separate application. I think Elixir is a good fit for that – what’s your experience with this? 8:40 – Guest: I agree with this, but let’s think about it in the other way. 9:48 – Mark: Yeah I can see that. It’s good to be aware of the upsides and downsides. It’s an interesting idea. 10:40 – Guest. 11:38 – Chuck: My experience is mostly in Rails. The other way I have solved this problem is “pulling” but this way is more elegant. Before we have talked with Chris McCord about LiveVue. Is there a way to hook this handler up to LiveVue to stream the changes all the way up to the frontend of web application with Phoenix? 12:20 – Guest. 12:55 – Mark talks about Elixir and GenServer. 13:29 – Guest. 13:49 – Mark: Please go and read Kamil’s blog post because it’s simple and it’s written well! Mark: I think Elixir is a great usage for GenServers. 14:28 – Guest. 14:35 – Chuck: You setup a store procedure, which I don’t see a lot of people doing within the communities. How necessary is that store procedure that you’ve created there? 15:00 – Guest. 16:16 – Chuck: What if you want to do targeted notifications? 16:28 – Guest. 17:33 – Mark: I am curious if you have experimented with the practical limitations of this? Like at one point does it start to break down? 18:00 – Guest. 20:00 – Chuck: I will be honest I am kind of lazy. Outside of the general use I don’t go looking for these, but when I hear about them I say: wow! 20:09 – Guest. 20:57 – Chuck. 21:15 – Guest talks about solutions that he’s found. 22:08 – FreshBooks! 23:17 – Mark: What other kind of databases have you had experience with for comparison reasons? 23:40 – Guest. 24:56 – Mark: You talked about defaults and I want to come back to this topic. 25:08 – Mark asks Chuck a question. 25:12 – Chuck: I don’t know. 25:23 – Mark talks about the databases that his work utilizes. 26:45 – Mark and Chuck go back-and-forth. 27:49 – Guest mentions a solution to the before-mentioned problem that Mark gave. 28:47 – Mark: It can get messy. I don’t repose this as a permanent solution, but it allows you do a staged-migration. 29:15 – Chuck: Do you run into problems with Postgrex? Most technologies if you don’t run into problems you aren’t pushing it enough (at least that’s my experience). 29:29 – Guest answers the question. 30:26 – Mark talks about active, active, active. 31:14 – Guest. 33:25 – Mark: In Elixir, we talk about the things that are in the box and one thing that comes up is “mnesia.” Can you talk about this please? 33:47 – Guest talks about mnesia. 35:17 – Mark talks about mnesia some more. Mark: It is an available option (mnesia), but I don’t know if it’s something that people want when they are looking for something more traditional. 37:04 – Guest. 37:30 – Mark: Yeah something people should be aware of. If you are encountering problems it’s good to know the different tools that are out there and available. 38:42 – Mark: One question: What are some of your favorite features of Postgrex? 38:57 – Guest. 41:08 – Mark talks about Postgrex’s features. 42:14 – Guest. 43:10 – Mark: I had a case where Elixir and Erlang and you can convert term to binary and binary to term. I took some data structure and converted it to a binary and using Ecto and tell it: serialize this and when it loads back out it is a native Elixir type. It’s not always the right solution, but in my cases it actually worked. 43:59 – Guest talks about a library that he wrote back-in-the-day. 44:40 – Chuck: Anything else? Nope? Okay – Picks! 44:52 – Ad: Lootcrate.com END – CacheFly! Links: Ruby Elixir Elixir: GenServer GenServers Elm JavaScript Visual Studio Code React “How to use LISTEN and NOTIFY PostgreSQL commands in Elixir?" By Kamil Lelonek Guest’s Medium Blog Postgrex.Notifications Redis.io Event Store PostgreSQL MongoDB Erlang: mnesia GitHub: cachex GitHub: meh / amnesia PostGIS When to use Ecto, when to use Mnesia PostgreSQL Ecto.Type GitHub: Exnumerator YouTube: Entreprogrammers Kamil’s Twitter Sponsors: Loot Crate Get a Coder Job! Fresh Books CacheFly Picks: Mark Being professionally proactive! Chuck Get A Coder Job eBook Challenge: Pomodoro Technique Kamil Book: Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman My Blog My Site

Panel: Charles Max Woods Special Guests: Donovan Brown In this episode, the Charles speaks with Donovan Brown. He is a principal DevOps Manager with Microsoft with a background in application development. He also runs one of the nation’s fastest growing online registration sites for motorsports events DLBRACING.com. When he is not writing software, he races cars for fun. Listen to today’s episode where Chuck and Donovan talk about DevOps, Azure, Python, Angular, React, Vue, and much, much more! Show Topics: 1:41 – Chuck: The philosophies around DevOps. Just to give you an idea, I have been thinking about what I want to do with the podcasts. Freedom to work on what we want or freedom to work where we want, etc. Then that goes into things we don’t want to do, like fix bugs, etc. How does Microsoft DevOps to choose what they want to do? 2:37 – Guest: We want to automate as much as we can so the developer has less work. As a developer I want to commit code, do another task, rinse and repeating. Minutes and not even hours later then people are tweeting about the next best thing. Do what you want, where you want. Code any language you want. 4:15 – Chuck: What has changed? 4:19 – Guest: The branding changed. The name wasn’t the most favorite among the people. The word “visual” was a concerned. What we have noticed that Azure will let me run my code no matter where I am. If you want to run Python or others it can run in Azure. People didn’t need all of it. It comes with depositories, project management, and so much more! People could feel clumsy because there is so much stuff. We can streamline that now, and you can turn off that feature so you don’t have a heart attack. Maybe you are using us for some features not all of them – cool. 7:40 – Chuck: With deployments and other things – we don’t talk about the process for development a lot. 8:00 – Guest talks about the things that can help out with that. Guest: Our process is going to help guide you. We have that all built into the Azure tab feature. They feel and act differently. I tell all the people all the time that it’s brilliant stuff. There are 3 different templates. The templates actually change over the language. You don’t have to do mental math. 9:57 – Chuck: Just talking about the process. Which of these things we work on next when I’ve got a bug, or a ... 10:20 – Guest: The board system works like for example you have a bug. The steps to reproduce that bug, so that there is no question what go into this specific field. Let the anatomy of the feature do it itself! 11:54 – Chuck comments. 12:26 – Chuck: Back to the feature. Creating the user stories is a different process than X. 12:44 – Guest – You have a hierarchy then, right? Also what is really cool is we have case state management. I can click on this and I expect this to happen... These are actual tasks that I can run. 13:52 – Chuck: Once you have those tests written can you pull those into your CI? 14:00 – Guest: “Manual tests x0.” Guest dives into the question. 14:47 – I expect my team to write those test cases. The answer to your question is yes and no. We got so good at it that we found something that didn’t even exist, yet. 16:19 – Guest: As a developer it might be mind 16:29 – Chuck: I fixed this bug 4x, I wished I had CI to help me. 16:46 – Guest: You get a bug, then you fix a code, etc., etc. You don’t know that this original bug just came back. Fix it again. Am I in Groundhog Day? They are related to each other. You don’t have a unit test to tell you. When you get that very first bug – write a unit test. It will make you quicker at fixing it. A unit test you can write really fast over, and over, again. The test is passing. What do you do? Test it. Write the code to fix that unit test. You can see that how these relate to each other. That’s the beauty in it. 18:33 – Chuck: 90% of the unit tests I write – even 95% of the time they pass. It’s the 5% you would have no idea that it’s related. I can remember broad strokes of the code that I wrote, but 3 months down the road I can’t remember. 19:14 – Guest: If you are in a time crunch – I don’t have time for this unit test. Guest gives us a hypothetical situation to show how unit tests really can help. 20:25 – Make it muscle memory to unit test. I am a faster developer with the unit tests. 20:45 – Chuck: In the beginning it took forever. Now it’s just how I write software now. It guides my thought process. 21:06 – Guest: Yes! I agree. 22:00 – Guest: Don’t do the unit tests 22:10 – Chuck: Other place is when you write a new feature,...go through the process. Write unit tests for the things that you’ve touched. Expand your level of comfort. DevOps – we are talking about processes. Sounds like your DevOps is a flexible tool. Some people are looking for A METHOD. Like a business coach. Does Azure DevOps do that? 23:13 – Guest: Azure DevOps Projects. YoTeam. Note.js, Java and others are mentioned by the Guest. 25:00 – Code Badges’ Advertisement 25:48 – Chuck: I am curious – 2 test sweets for Angular or React or Vue. How does that work? 26:05 – Guest: So that is Jasmine or Mocha? So it really doesn’t matter. I’m a big fan of Mocha. It tests itself. I install local to my project alone – I can do it on any CI system in the world. YoTeam is not used in your pipeline. Install 2 parts – Yo and Generator – Team. Answer the questions and it’s awesome. I’ve done conferences in New Zealand. 28:37 – Chuck: Why would I go anywhere else? 28:44 – Guest: YoTeam  was the idea of... 28:57 – Check out Guest 29:02 – Guest: I want Donovan in a box. If I weren’t there then the show wouldn’t exist today. 29:40 – Chuck: Asks a question. 29:46 – Guest: 5 different verticals. Check out this timestamp to see what Donovan says the 5 different verticals are. Pipelines is 1 of the 5. 30:55 – Chuck: Yep – it works on my Mac. 31:04 – Guest: We also have Test Plant and Artifacts. 31:42 – Chuck: Can you resolve that on your developer machine? 31:46 – Guest: Yes, absolutely! There is my private repository and... 33:14 – Guest: *People not included in box.* 33:33 – Guest: It’s people driven. We guide you through the process. The value is the most important part and people is the hardest part, but once on 33:59 – Chuck: I am listening to this show and I want to try this out. I want a demo setup so I can show my boss. How do I show him that it works? 34:27 – Azure.com/devops – that is a great landing page. How can I get a demo going? You can say here is my account – and they can put a demo into your account. I would not do a demo that this is cool. We start you for free. Create an account. Let the CI be the proof. It’s your job to do this, because it will make you more efficient. You need me to be using these tools. 36:11 – Chuck comments. 36:17 – Guest: Say you are on a team of developers and love GitHub and things that integration is stupid, but how many people would disagree about... 38:02 – The reports prove it for themselves. 38:20 – Chuck: You can get started for free – so when do you have to start paying for it? 38:31 – Guest: Get 4 of your buddies and then need more people it’s $6 a month. 39:33 – Chuck adds in comments. If this is free? 39:43 – Guest goes into the details about plans and such for this tool.  40:17 – Chuck: How easy it is to migrate away from it? 40:22 – Guest: It’s GITHub. 40:30 – Chuck: People are looing data on their CI. 40:40 – Guest: You can comb that information there over the past 4 years but I don’t know if any system would let you export that history. 41:08 – Chuck: Yeah, you are right. 41:16 – Guest adds more into this topic. 41:25 – Chuck: Yeah it’s all into the machine. 41:38 – Chuck: Good deal. 41:43 – Guest: It’s like a drug. I would never leave it. I was using TFS before Microsoft. 42:08 – Chuck: Other question: continuous deployment. 42:56 – When I say every platform, I mean every platform: mobile devices, AWS, Azure, etc. Anything you can do from a command line you can do from our build and release system. PowerShell you don’t have to abandon it. 45:20 – Guest: I can’t remember what that tool is called! 45:33 – Guest: Anything you can do from a command line. Before firewall. Anything you want. 45:52 – Guest: I love my job because I get to help developers. 46:03 – Chuck: What do you think the biggest mistake people are doing? 46:12 – Guest: They are trying to do it all at once. Fix that one little thing. It’s instant value with no risks whatsoever. Go setup and it takes 15 minutes total. Now that we have this continuous build, now let’s go and deploy it. Don’t dream up what you think your pipeline should look like. Do one thing at a time. What hurts the most that it’s “buggy.” Let’s add that to the pipeline. It’s in your pipeline today, what hurts the most, and don’t do it all at once. 49:14 – Chuck: I thought you’d say: I don’t have the time. 49:25 – Guest: Say you work on it 15 minutes a day. 3 days in – 45 minutes in you have a CSI system that works forever. Yes I agree because people think they don’t “have the time.” 50:18 – Guest continues this conversation. How do you not have CI? Just install it – don’t ask. Just do the right thing. 50:40 – Chuck: I free-lanced and setup CI for my team. After a month, getting warned, we had a monitor up on the screen and it was either RED or GREEN. It was basically – hey this hurts and now we know. Either we are going to have pain or not have pain. 51:41 – Guest continues this conversation. Have pain – we should only have pain once or twice a year. Rollback. If you only have it every 6 months, that’s not too bad. The pain will motivate you. 52:40 – Azure.com/devops. Azure DevOps’ Twitter 53:22 – Picks! 53:30 – Advertisement – Get a Coder Job Links: Donovan Brown’s GitHub Donovan Brown’s Twitter Donovan Brown Donovan Brown – Channel 9 Donovan Brown – Microsoft Azure YoTeam Azure.com/devops GitHub Azure DevOps’ Twitter Sponsors: Angular Boot Camp Digital Ocean Get a Coder Job course Picks: Charles Jet Blue Beta Testers Donovan YoTeam VSTeam Powershell Module

Panel: Charles Max Wood Special Guests: Ed Thomson In this episode, the Charles speaks with Ed Thomson who is a Program Manager at Azure through Microsoft, Developer, and Open Source Maintainer. Ed and Chuck discuss in full detail about Azure DevOps! Check out today’s episode to hear its new features and other exciting news! Show Topics: 0:59 – Live at Microsoft Ignite 1:03 – Ed: Hi! I am a Program Manager at Azure. 1:28 – Rewind 2 episodes to hear more about Azure DevOps! 1:51 – Ed: One of the moves from Pipelines to DevOps – they could still adopt Pipelines. Now that they are separate services – it’s great. 2:38 – Chuck talks about features he does and doesn’t use. 2:54 – Ed. 3:00 – Chuck: Repos and Pipelines. I am going to dive right in. Let’s talk about Repos. Microsoft just acquired GitHub. 3:18 – Ed: Technically we have not officially acquired GitHub. 3:34 – Chuck: It’s not done. It’s the end of September now. 3:55 – Ed: They will remain the same thing for a while. GitHub is the home for open source. Repos – we use it in Microsoft. Repositories are huge. There are 4,000 engineers working in these repositories. Everyone works in his or her own little area, and you have to work together. You have to do all this engineering to get there. We bit a tool and it basically if you run clone... Ed continues to talk about this topic. He is talking about One Drive and these repositories. 6:28 – Ed: We aren’t going to be mixing and matching. I used to work through GitHub. It’s exciting to see those people work close to me. 6:54 – Chuck. 6:59 – Ed: It has come a long way. 7:07 – Chuck: Beyond the FSF are we talking about other features or? 7:21 – Ed: We have unique features. We have branch policies. You can require that people do pole request. You have to use pole request and your CI has to pass and things like that. I think there is a lot of richness in our auditing. We have enterprise focus. At its core it still is Git. We can all interoperate. 8:17 – Chuck. 8:37 – Ed: You just can’t set it up with Apache. You have to figure it out. 8:51 – Chuck: The method of pushing and pulling. 9:06 – Chuck: You can try DevOps for free up to 5 users and unlimited private repos. People are interested in this because GitHub makes you pay for that. 9:38 – Ed and Chuck continue to talk. 9:50 – Ed: Pipelines is the most interesting thing we are working on. We have revamped the entire experience. Build and release. It’s easy to get started. We have a visual designer. Super helpful – super straightforward. Releases once your code is built – get it out to production say for example Azure. It’s the important thing to get your code out there. 10:55 – Chuck: How can someone start with this? 11:00 – Ed: Depends on where your repository is. It will look at your code. “Oh, I know what that is, I know how to build that!” Maybe everyone isn’t doing everything with JavaScript. If you are using DotNet then it will know. 12:05 – Chuck: What if I am using both a backend and a frontend? 12:11 – Ed: One repository? That’s when you will have to do a little hand packing on the... There are different opportunities there. If you have a bash script that does it for you. If not, then you can orchestrate it. Reduce the time it takes. If it’s an open source project; there’s 2 – what are you going to do with the other 8? You’d be surprised – people try to sneak that in there. 13:30 – Chuck: It seems like continuous integration isn’t a whole lot complicated. 13:39 – Ed: I am a simple guy that’s how I do it. You can do advanced stuff, though. The Cake Build system – they are doing some crazy things. We have got Windows, Lennox, and others. Are you building for Raspberries Pies, then okay, do this... It’s not just running a script. 15:00 – Chuck: People do get pretty complicated if they want. It can get complicated. Who knows? 15:26 – Chuck:  How much work do you have to do to set-up a Pipeline like that? 15:37 – Ed answers the question in detail. 16:03 – Chuck asks a question. 16:12 – Ed: Now this is where it gets contentious. If one fails... Our default task out of the box... 16:56 – Chuck: If you want 2 steps you can (like me who is crazy). 17:05 – Ed: Yes, I want to see if it failed. 17:17 – Chuck: Dude, writing code is hard. Once you have it built and tested – continuous deployment. 17:33 – Ed: It’s very easy. It’s super straightforward, it doesn’t have to be Azure (although I hope it is!). Ed continues this conversation. 18:43 – Chuck: And it just pulls it? 18:49 – Ed: Don’t poke holes into your firewall. We do give you a lot of flexibility 19:04 – Chuck: VPN credentials? 19:10 – Ed: Just run the... 19:25 – Chuck comments. 19:36 – Ed: ...Take that Zip... 20:02 – Ed: Once the planets are finely aligned then...it will just pull from it. 20:25 – Chuck: I host my stuff on Digital Ocean. 20:46 – Ed: It’s been awhile since I played with... 20:55 – Chuck. 20:59 – Ed and Chuck go back and forth with different situations and hypothetical situations. 21:10 – Ed: What is Phoenix? 21:20 – Chuck explains it. 21:25 – Ed: Here is what we probably don’t have is a lot of ERLANG support. 22:41 – Advertisement. 23:31 – Chuck: Let’s just say it’s a possibility. We took the strip down node and... 23:49 – Ed: I think it’s going to happen. 23:55 – Ed: Exactly. 24:02 – Chuck: Testing against Azure services. So, it’s one thing to run on my machine but it’s another thing when other things connect nicely with an Azure set-up. Does it connect natively once it’s in the Azure cloud? 24:35 – Ed: It should, but there are so many services, so I don’t want to say that everything is identical. We will say yes with an asterisk. 25:07 – Chuck: With continuous deployment... 25:41 – Ed: As an example: I have a CD Pipeline for my website. Every time I merge into master... Ed continues this hypothetical situation with full details. Check it out! 27:03 – Chuck: You probably can do just about anything – deploy by Tweet! 27:15 – Ed: You can stop the deployment if people on Twitter start complaining. 27:40 – Chuck: That is awesome! IF it is something you care about – and if it’s worth the time – then why not? If you don’t have to think about it then great. I have mentioned this before: Am I solving interesting problems? What projects do I want to work on? What kinds of contributions do I really want to contribute to open source? That’s the thing – if you have all these tools that are set-up then your process, how do you work on what, and remove the pain points then you can just write code so people can use! That’s the power of this – because it catches the bug before I have to catch it – then that saves me time. 30:08 – Ed: That’s the dream of computers is that the computers are supposed to make OUR lives easier. IF we can do that and catch those bugs before you catch it then you are saving time. Finding bugs as quickly as possible it avoids downtime and messy deployments. 31:03 – Chuck: Then you can use time for coding style and other things. I can take mental shortcuts. 31:37 – Ed: The other thing you can do is avoiding security problems. If a static code analysis tool catches an integer overflow then... 32:30 – Chuck adds his comments. Chuck: You can set your policy to block it or ignore it. Then you are running these tools to run security. There are third-party tools that do security analysis on your code. Do you integrate with those? 33:00 – Ed: Yep. My favorite is WhiteSource. It knows all of the open source and third-party tools. It can scan your code and... 34:05 – Chuck: It works with a lot of languages. 34:14 – Ed. 34:25 – Chuck: A lot of JavaScript developers are getting into mobile development, like Ionic, and others. You have all these systems out there for different stages for writing for mobile. Android, windows Phone, Blackberry... 35:04 – Ed: Let’s throw out Blackberry builds. We will ignore it. Mac OS dies a fine job. That’s why we have all of those. 35:29 – Chuck: But I want to run my tests, too! 35:36 – Ed: I really like to use App Center. It is ultimately incredible to see all the tests you can run. 36:29 – Chuck: The deployment is different, though, right? 36:40 – Ed: I have a friend who clicks a button in... Azure DevOps. 37:00 – Chuck: I like to remind people that this isn’t a new product. 37:15 – Ed: Yes, Azure DevOps. 37:24 – Chuck: Any new features that are coming out? 37:27 – Ed: We took a little break, but... 37:47 – Ed: We will pick back up once Ignite is over. We have a timeline on our website when we expect to launch some new features, and some are secret, so keep checking out the website. 39:07 – Chuck: What is the interplay between Azure DevOps and Visual Studio Code? Because they have plugins for freaking everything. I am sure there is something there that... 39:30 – Ed: I am a VI guy and I’m like 90% sure there is something there. You are an eMac’s guy? The way I think about it is through Git right out of the box. Yes, I think there are better things out there for integration. I know we have a lot of great things in Visual Code, because I worked with it. 40:45 – Chuck: Yes, people can look for extensions and see what the capabilities are. Chuck talks about code editor and tools.  41:28 – Ed: ... we have been pulling that out as quickly as possible. We do have IE extensions, I am sure there is something for VS Code – but it’s not where I want to spend my time. 42:02 – Chuck: Yes, sure. 42:07 – Ed: But everyone is different – they won’t work the way that I work. So there’s that. 42:30 – Ed: That Chuck. 42:36 – Chuck: Where do people get news? 42:42 – Ed: Go to here! 42:54 – Chuck: Where do people find you? 43:00 – Ed: Twitter! 43:07 – Chuck: Let’s do Picks! 43:20 – Advertisement – Fresh Books! Links: GitHub Microsoft’s Azure Microsoft’s Pipeline Azure DevOps Erlang WhiteSource Chuck’s Twitter Ed Thomson’s Twitter Ed Thomson’s GitHub Ed Thomson’s Website Ed Thomson’s LinkedIn Sponsors: Angular Boot Camp Fresh Books Get a Coder Job Course Picks: Ed Podcast - All Things Git

Panel: Charles Max Wood Guest: Kerri Miller This week on My Ruby Story, Chuck talks with Kerri Miller who is a developer who resides in Seattle! Chuck and Kerri talk about her background, how she got into programming, software, and much more. Check it out! In particular, we dive pretty deep on: 0:00 – Get A Coder Job! 0:52 – Chuck: Hello! Our guest is Kerri Miller – say Hi! 1:00 – Guest: Hi! 1:06 – Chuck: Tell us who you are and where you work? 1:13 – Guest: I live in Seattle. 1:36 – Chuck: We had you on past episodes RR 191 and RR 261. Tell us about your work! 2:10 – Guest: I have been a remote-worker for about 5 years now.  2:30 – Chuck: Let’s focus on you and how you got into programming and what you’ve contributed into the community.  How did you get into programming? 2:45 – Guest: I had early access to computers. We also had the Thermal Printer! I went into theater and dance and then came back into programming. Kerri talks about sound boards that were using computers through her art world. 4:20 – Chuck: I love how people come from different backgrounds. 5:01 – Guest: Yeah you need to have other skillsets outside of being a computer programmer. What do you bring in and what do you have at the very beginning of your career and then you fill in those blanks as you go along. 5:33 – Chuck: Yep exactly. 5:47 – Guest: I am interested to see how my stage career helps my developer career! 7:35 – Chuck. 7:39 – Guest: Some people need walk-up music. 7:51 – Chuck: How did you get into Ruby? 8:00 – Guest: I was the only person that had heard about the Internet, so that’s how I got the job! I went to Barnes & Noble and read books; kids: that is an actual place! 9:24 – Chuck: You are still using Ruby right? 9:26 – Guest: Yes I am! I have explored GO and other languages, too, b/c that helps my skills with Ruby. 10:14 – Chuck: What made you switch? How do you decide to make that switch? 10:26 – Guest: This book really helped me: “Why’s (Poignant) Guide to Ruby.” It invigorated my love for programming. 11:15 – Chuck: How long ago was that? 11:20 – Guest: About 7 years ago. 11:37 – Chuck: Some of the things you’ve done is conference organizing and speaking. Anything else? 11:50 – Guest answers the question. 13:17 – Chuck: What were your favorite talks to give and where? 13:30 – Guest: It really is hard to choose. I liked the one in Bath, UK last year: “Is Ruby Dead?” 15:00 – Chuck: Where do you see Ruby going? What’s the future like for Ruby? 15:10 – Guest: I think there are neat things that are happening in Ruby 3. 16:08 – Chuck: What other conferences are you involved with? 16:14 – Guest: Open Source & Feelings. (The guest goes into detail about what this conference has to offer!) 17:36 – Chuck: What should I be looking for there at CES (2019)? 17:52 – Guest answers. 18:39 – Guest: I have 6 Echos & Alexas in the house – do I need those many – probably not. 19:21 – Chuck: I think the same thing about giving / not giving my fingerprint to the government vs. Apple. 19:43 – Guest. 20:06 – Chuck: What are you working on now? 20:10 – Guest: If you have a problem with Ruby – I help with the Q&A and bug-support. Working on 2019 conferences, too! 20:43 – Chuck: Picks! 20:50 – Advertisement – Fresh Books! END – CacheFly Links: Ruby Elixir Rails Rust Python PHP RR 191 Episode with Kerri Miller RR 261 Episode with Kerri Miller Kerri Miller’s GitHub Kerri Miller’s Twitter Kerri Miller’s Website Sponsors: Get a Coder Job Cache Fly Fresh Books Picks: Kerri Motorcycle-riding Bear app Chuck Marathon – St. George Utah – October 5th Friend – John Sonmez Garmin Watch V.02 McKirdy Trained

Panel: Charles Max Wood Guest: A.J. O’Neal This week on My JavaScript Story, Charles talks with A.J. O’Neal who is a panelist on My JavaScript Jabber usually, but today he is a guest! The guys talk about AJ’s background and past/current projects. Today’s topics include: JavaScript, Ruby, jQuery, Rails, Node, Python, and more. In particular, we dive pretty deep on: 0:00 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! 1:23 – Chuck: Introduce yourself, please. 1:27 – AJ: I brief introduction: I am a quirky guy who is ADD and I love to figure out why/how things work. I like self-hosting or owning things in technology. 2:00 – Chuck: Where do you work now? 2:02 – AJ: I work in UTAH at Big Squid! 3:29 – AJ: I have my own company, too! 3:41 – Chuck: Yeah we’ve talked about that before. Where can we go? 3:54: AJ: We have 2 products that are both Node. Greenlock for Node.js is one of them! The other one is Telebit. 5:44 – Chuck: This interview is all about your background. How did you get into programming? 6:04 – AJ: I was in middle school but before that my grandmother was a secretary at the Pentagon. She worked on getting people paid and she wrote a program to assist these paychecks to be printed with fewer errors. Because of that she had a computer at home. I remember playing games on her computer. The guest talks about his background in more detail. 15:21 – Chuck: No it’s interesting! I’ve done a couple hundred interviews and they all say either: I went to school for it OR I did it for my free time. It’s interesting to see the similarities! 16:00 – AJ: Yep that’s pretty much how I got into it! I went on a church service mission to Albania and really didn’t do any computer work during those 2 years. 19:39 – Chuck: You went to BYU and your mission trip. A lot of that stuff I can relate to and identify with b/c I went to BYU and went on missions trip, too! And then you got into Ruby and that’s how we met was through Ruby! 20:25 – AJ: Yep that’s it. Then that’s when I learned about Node, too. There was a guy with a funny hate – do you remember that? (No.) 21:03 – Chuck: Maybe? 21:07 – AJ continues. 27:53 – Chuck: What made you make the transition? People come into and out of different technologies all the time. 28:18 – AJ: Yeah it started with me with jQuery! Rails has layers upon layers upon layers. AJ talks about different technologies their similarities/differences and mentions: JavaScript, Rails, Python, Node, Ruby, and much more. 31:05 – Chuck: Node went out of their way on certain platforms that Rails didn’t prioritize. 31:11 – AJ continues to talk about different technologies and platforms. 33:00 – Chuck: You get into Node and then at what point does this idea of a home-server and Node and everything start to come together? How much of this do you want to talk bout? At one point did they start to gel? 33:33 – AJ: It’s been a very long process and started back in high school. It started with me trying to think: How do I get this picture on my phone to my mom? I thought of uploading it to Flickr or could I do this or that? What about sending it to someone in China? 39:57 – Chuck. 40:01 – AJ continues and talks about libraries and certificate standards. 42:00 – AJ continues with the topic: certificates. 42:44 – Chuck: I am going to go to PICKS! Where can people find you? 42:55 – AJ: Twitter! Blog! GitHub! Anywhere! 43:55 – Chuck: Picks! 43:58 – Advertisement – Fresh Books! 30-Day Trial! END – Cache Fly Links: React Angular JavaScript Webpack.js Serverless jQuery Node AJ’s Twitter Chuck’s Twitter Sponsors: Cache Fly Get A Coder Job Fresh Books Picks: A.J. JC Penny! Stafford Shirts Express for Men Chris Ferdinandi’s GOMAKETHINGS. COM Chuck Wordpress – Plugin KingSumo Getdrip.com Softcover.io

Panel: Charles Max Wood Guest: Sharon DiOrio This week on My Angular Story, Charles speaks with Sharon DiOrio who is a lead software engineer at Achievement Network (ANet) and lives in Massachusetts! Chuck and Sharon talk about how she got into programming, her education, career highlights, and more! Check it out. In particular, we dive pretty deep on: 0:00 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! 0:41 – Chuck: Say “hello!” You were on episode 2 back in the day! 1:16 – Chuck: Can you tell people what you are up to? 1:19 – Sharon: The Angular landscape has changed quite a bit in the past 4 years. I am still using Angular! 1:37 – Chuck: It’s nice to hear people’s backgrounds and their thought process. Let’s talk about your story. To start out how did you get into programming? 2:03 – Sharon: I have a Bachelor’s of Fine Arts. The web wasn’t a thing, yet, and it wasn’t an option. 4:04 – Chuck: How did you go from there to Angular and JavaScript? 4:12 – Sharon: I have a soft spot in my heart for Code Fusion. I did Code Fusion and PHP and that paid the bills for a long time. In the mid-2000’s that some of this stuff was going away and the idea of “old is new.” What is going to be my evolution of a developer? The frameworks (at this time) were starting to mature. 8:01 – Chuck: You run an Angular Meetup, so how did that get started?  8:05 – Sharon shares her story. 9:25 – Chuck: I would like to find a group that does this or that – and people find their niche and get together. If it grows great – if not then you begin some great friendships. I would like room for more intimate Meetups. 10:18 – Chuck. 10:23 – Sharon. 10:27 – Chuck: You spoke at NG-Conf in 2014 and what are your tips for people who want to speak at these conferences. 10:50 – Sharon: Get experience talking in front of large audiences before the ACTUAL conference! Also, start with Meetups! 12:29 – Chuck: Just the practice of building good habits and making sure that you are really prepared. Don’t they offer coaching now? 12:45 – Sharon: Yep! 12:53 – Chuck: What other things have you done with Angular? 13:01 – Sharon: I have been mostly in applications. Then I moved into educational technology. 13:55 – Chuck: Yep I identify with that a lot – getting a better career, making a better life for yourself, etc. 14:15 – Sharon: Yep! 15:34 – Chuck: I have seen things like Common Core and seeing what my kids are doing in school. 16:00 – Sharon: Most of the criticisms that people have about Common Core are... 16:35 – Sharon: I have been working in the educational space, too, yes! I have been here for 3 years now and I have “tenure” in technology. 17:18 – Chuck: What are the things that you are most proud of? 17:21 – Sharon answers the question. 19:37 – Chuck: We have shows on React, Angular and others. It’s interesting to see how people are assessing these things. 19:56 – Sharon: Yeah the landscaping is so different from not that long ago! 20:10 – Chuck. 21:03 – Sharon: Yeah our management is using version 6. I am going to do it and not tell them. 21:35 – Chuck: Anything else that you want to shout-out about? 21:37 – Sharon: How you get answers to questions will shift in your life. Learning how to ask a question well is underestimated – it’s an art. What to provide, so you know exactly what to provide to him/her. 22:21 – Chuck: Yeah my brothers 22:47 – Sharon: My father told me the same thing: you need to speak well and write well. No matter what field you are going into. Also, empathy and soft skills are great skills to have, too. 23:35 – Chuck: It is easy to work on the technology b/c it’s either right or wrong. 23:48 – Sharon: I would love to see people wanting those skills within job posts. 24:20 – Chuck: I agree! It makes a big difference. Let’s do picks! 24:35  – Fresh Books! END – CacheFly Links: jQuery Angular JavaScript Vue React Chuck’s Twitter Chuck’s E-mail: chuck@devchat.tv JSJ 335 episode AiA 002 episode Sponsors: Get A Coder Job Fresh Books Cache Fly Picks: Chuck Interview Cake – use our code, please. Marathon (John Sonmez, friend) – St. George Marathon McKirdy Trained Garmin Watches Sharon Brave Browser DevChat TV Programming for people who didn’t go the traditional way!

Panel: Charles Max Wood Guest: Sharon DiOrio This week on My Angular Story, Charles speaks with Sharon DiOrio who is a lead software engineer at Achievement Network (ANet) and lives in Massachusetts! Chuck and Sharon talk about how she got into programming, her education, career highlights, and more! Check it out. In particular, we dive pretty deep on: 0:00 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! 0:41 – Chuck: Say “hello!” You were on episode 2 back in the day! 1:16 – Chuck: Can you tell people what you are up to? 1:19 – Sharon: The Angular landscape has changed quite a bit in the past 4 years. I am still using Angular! 1:37 – Chuck: It’s nice to hear people’s backgrounds and their thought process. Let’s talk about your story. To start out how did you get into programming? 2:03 – Sharon: I have a Bachelor’s of Fine Arts. The web wasn’t a thing, yet, and it wasn’t an option. 4:04 – Chuck: How did you go from there to Angular and JavaScript? 4:12 – Sharon: I have a soft spot in my heart for Code Fusion. I did Code Fusion and PHP and that paid the bills for a long time. In the mid-2000’s that some of this stuff was going away and the idea of “old is new.” What is going to be my evolution of a developer? The frameworks (at this time) were starting to mature. 8:01 – Chuck: You run an Angular Meetup, so how did that get started?  8:05 – Sharon shares her story. 9:25 – Chuck: I would like to find a group that does this or that – and people find their niche and get together. If it grows great – if not then you begin some great friendships. I would like room for more intimate Meetups. 10:18 – Chuck. 10:23 – Sharon. 10:27 – Chuck: You spoke at NG-Conf in 2014 and what are your tips for people who want to speak at these conferences. 10:50 – Sharon: Get experience talking in front of large audiences before the ACTUAL conference! Also, start with Meetups! 12:29 – Chuck: Just the practice of building good habits and making sure that you are really prepared. Don’t they offer coaching now? 12:45 – Sharon: Yep! 12:53 – Chuck: What other things have you done with Angular? 13:01 – Sharon: I have been mostly in applications. Then I moved into educational technology. 13:55 – Chuck: Yep I identify with that a lot – getting a better career, making a better life for yourself, etc. 14:15 – Sharon: Yep! 15:34 – Chuck: I have seen things like Common Core and seeing what my kids are doing in school. 16:00 – Sharon: Most of the criticisms that people have about Common Core are... 16:35 – Sharon: I have been working in the educational space, too, yes! I have been here for 3 years now and I have “tenure” in technology. 17:18 – Chuck: What are the things that you are most proud of? 17:21 – Sharon answers the question. 19:37 – Chuck: We have shows on React, Angular and others. It’s interesting to see how people are assessing these things. 19:56 – Sharon: Yeah the landscaping is so different from not that long ago! 20:10 – Chuck. 21:03 – Sharon: Yeah our management is using version 6. I am going to do it and not tell them. 21:35 – Chuck: Anything else that you want to shout-out about? 21:37 – Sharon: How you get answers to questions will shift in your life. Learning how to ask a question well is underestimated – it’s an art. What to provide, so you know exactly what to provide to him/her. 22:21 – Chuck: Yeah my brothers 22:47 – Sharon: My father told me the same thing: you need to speak well and write well. No matter what field you are going into. Also, empathy and soft skills are great skills to have, too. 23:35 – Chuck: It is easy to work on the technology b/c it’s either right or wrong. 23:48 – Sharon: I would love to see people wanting those skills within job posts. 24:20 – Chuck: I agree! It makes a big difference. Let’s do picks! 24:35  – Fresh Books! END – CacheFly Links: jQuery Angular JavaScript Vue React Chuck’s Twitter Chuck’s E-mail: chuck@devchat.tv JSJ 335 episode AiA 002 episode Sponsors: Get A Coder Job Fresh Books Cache Fly Picks: Chuck Interview Cake – use our code, please. Marathon (John Sonmez, friend) – St. George Marathon McKirdy Trained Garmin Watches Sharon Brave Browser DevChat TV Programming for people who didn’t go the traditional way!

Panel: Charles Max Wood Guest: Sharon DiOrio This week on My Angular Story, Charles speaks with Sharon DiOrio who is a lead software engineer at Achievement Network (ANet) and lives in Massachusetts! Chuck and Sharon talk about how she got into programming, her education, career highlights, and more! Check it out. In particular, we dive pretty deep on: 0:00 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! 0:41 – Chuck: Say “hello!” You were on episode 2 back in the day! 1:16 – Chuck: Can you tell people what you are up to? 1:19 – Sharon: The Angular landscape has changed quite a bit in the past 4 years. I am still using Angular! 1:37 – Chuck: It’s nice to hear people’s backgrounds and their thought process. Let’s talk about your story. To start out how did you get into programming? 2:03 – Sharon: I have a Bachelor’s of Fine Arts. The web wasn’t a thing, yet, and it wasn’t an option. 4:04 – Chuck: How did you go from there to Angular and JavaScript? 4:12 – Sharon: I have a soft spot in my heart for Code Fusion. I did Code Fusion and PHP and that paid the bills for a long time. In the mid-2000’s that some of this stuff was going away and the idea of “old is new.” What is going to be my evolution of a developer? The frameworks (at this time) were starting to mature. 8:01 – Chuck: You run an Angular Meetup, so how did that get started?  8:05 – Sharon shares her story. 9:25 – Chuck: I would like to find a group that does this or that – and people find their niche and get together. If it grows great – if not then you begin some great friendships. I would like room for more intimate Meetups. 10:18 – Chuck. 10:23 – Sharon. 10:27 – Chuck: You spoke at NG-Conf in 2014 and what are your tips for people who want to speak at these conferences. 10:50 – Sharon: Get experience talking in front of large audiences before the ACTUAL conference! Also, start with Meetups! 12:29 – Chuck: Just the practice of building good habits and making sure that you are really prepared. Don’t they offer coaching now? 12:45 – Sharon: Yep! 12:53 – Chuck: What other things have you done with Angular? 13:01 – Sharon: I have been mostly in applications. Then I moved into educational technology. 13:55 – Chuck: Yep I identify with that a lot – getting a better career, making a better life for yourself, etc. 14:15 – Sharon: Yep! 15:34 – Chuck: I have seen things like Common Core and seeing what my kids are doing in school. 16:00 – Sharon: Most of the criticisms that people have about Common Core are... 16:35 – Sharon: I have been working in the educational space, too, yes! I have been here for 3 years now and I have “tenure” in technology. 17:18 – Chuck: What are the things that you are most proud of? 17:21 – Sharon answers the question. 19:37 – Chuck: We have shows on React, Angular and others. It’s interesting to see how people are assessing these things. 19:56 – Sharon: Yeah the landscaping is so different from not that long ago! 20:10 – Chuck. 21:03 – Sharon: Yeah our management is using version 6. I am going to do it and not tell them. 21:35 – Chuck: Anything else that you want to shout-out about? 21:37 – Sharon: How you get answers to questions will shift in your life. Learning how to ask a question well is underestimated – it’s an art. What to provide, so you know exactly what to provide to him/her. 22:21 – Chuck: Yeah my brothers 22:47 – Sharon: My father told me the same thing: you need to speak well and write well. No matter what field you are going into. Also, empathy and soft skills are great skills to have, too. 23:35 – Chuck: It is easy to work on the technology b/c it’s either right or wrong. 23:48 – Sharon: I would love to see people wanting those skills within job posts. 24:20 – Chuck: I agree! It makes a big difference. Let’s do picks! 24:35  – Fresh Books! END – CacheFly Links: jQuery Angular JavaScript Vue React Chuck’s Twitter Chuck’s E-mail: chuck@devchat.tv JSJ 335 episode AiA 002 episode Sponsors: Get A Coder Job Fresh Books Cache Fly Picks: Chuck Interview Cake – use our code, please. Marathon (John Sonmez, friend) – St. George Marathon McKirdy Trained Garmin Watches Sharon Brave Browser DevChat TV Programming for people who didn’t go the traditional way!

Panel: Charles Max Wood Guest: Kerri Miller This week on My Ruby Story, Chuck talks with Kerri Miller who is a developer who resides in Seattle! Chuck and Kerri talk about her background, how she got into programming, software, and much more. Check it out! In particular, we dive pretty deep on: 0:00 – Get A Coder Job! 0:52 – Chuck: Hello! Our guest is Kerri Miller – say Hi! 1:00 – Guest: Hi! 1:06 – Chuck: Tell us who you are and where you work? 1:13 – Guest: I live in Seattle. 1:36 – Chuck: We had you on past episodes RR 191 and RR 261. Tell us about your work! 2:10 – Guest: I have been a remote-worker for about 5 years now.  2:30 – Chuck: Let’s focus on you and how you got into programming and what you’ve contributed into the community.  How did you get into programming? 2:45 – Guest: I had early access to computers. We also had the Thermal Printer! I went into theater and dance and then came back into programming. Kerri talks about sound boards that were using computers through her art world. 4:20 – Chuck: I love how people come from different backgrounds. 5:01 – Guest: Yeah you need to have other skillsets outside of being a computer programmer. What do you bring in and what do you have at the very beginning of your career and then you fill in those blanks as you go along. 5:33 – Chuck: Yep exactly. 5:47 – Guest: I am interested to see how my stage career helps my developer career! 7:35 – Chuck. 7:39 – Guest: Some people need walk-up music. 7:51 – Chuck: How did you get into Ruby? 8:00 – Guest: I was the only person that had heard about the Internet, so that’s how I got the job! I went to Barnes & Noble and read books; kids: that is an actual place! 9:24 – Chuck: You are still using Ruby right? 9:26 – Guest: Yes I am! I have explored GO and other languages, too, b/c that helps my skills with Ruby. 10:14 – Chuck: What made you switch? How do you decide to make that switch? 10:26 – Guest: This book really helped me: “Why’s (Poignant) Guide to Ruby.” It invigorated my love for programming. 11:15 – Chuck: How long ago was that? 11:20 – Guest: About 7 years ago. 11:37 – Chuck: Some of the things you’ve done is conference organizing and speaking. Anything else? 11:50 – Guest answers the question. 13:17 – Chuck: What were your favorite talks to give and where? 13:30 – Guest: It really is hard to choose. I liked the one in Bath, UK last year: “Is Ruby Dead?” 15:00 – Chuck: Where do you see Ruby going? What’s the future like for Ruby? 15:10 – Guest: I think there are neat things that are happening in Ruby 3. 16:08 – Chuck: What other conferences are you involved with? 16:14 – Guest: Open Source & Feelings. (The guest goes into detail about what this conference has to offer!) 17:36 – Chuck: What should I be looking for there at CES (2019)? 17:52 – Guest answers. 18:39 – Guest: I have 6 Echos & Alexas in the house – do I need those many – probably not. 19:21 – Chuck: I think the same thing about giving / not giving my fingerprint to the government vs. Apple. 19:43 – Guest. 20:06 – Chuck: What are you working on now? 20:10 – Guest: If you have a problem with Ruby – I help with the Q&A and bug-support. Working on 2019 conferences, too! 20:43 – Chuck: Picks! 20:50 – Advertisement – Fresh Books! END – CacheFly Links: Ruby Elixir Rails Rust Python PHP RR 191 Episode with Kerri Miller RR 261 Episode with Kerri Miller Kerri Miller’s GitHub Kerri Miller’s Twitter Kerri Miller’s Website Sponsors: Get a Coder Job Cache Fly Fresh Books Picks: Kerri Motorcycle-riding Bear app Chuck Marathon – St. George Utah – October 5th Friend – John Sonmez Garmin Watch V.02 McKirdy Trained

Panel: Charles Max Wood Guest: Kerri Miller This week on My Ruby Story, Chuck talks with Kerri Miller who is a developer who resides in Seattle! Chuck and Kerri talk about her background, how she got into programming, software, and much more. Check it out! In particular, we dive pretty deep on: 0:00 – Get A Coder Job! 0:52 – Chuck: Hello! Our guest is Kerri Miller – say Hi! 1:00 – Guest: Hi! 1:06 – Chuck: Tell us who you are and where you work? 1:13 – Guest: I live in Seattle. 1:36 – Chuck: We had you on past episodes RR 191 and RR 261. Tell us about your work! 2:10 – Guest: I have been a remote-worker for about 5 years now.  2:30 – Chuck: Let’s focus on you and how you got into programming and what you’ve contributed into the community.  How did you get into programming? 2:45 – Guest: I had early access to computers. We also had the Thermal Printer! I went into theater and dance and then came back into programming. Kerri talks about sound boards that were using computers through her art world. 4:20 – Chuck: I love how people come from different backgrounds. 5:01 – Guest: Yeah you need to have other skillsets outside of being a computer programmer. What do you bring in and what do you have at the very beginning of your career and then you fill in those blanks as you go along. 5:33 – Chuck: Yep exactly. 5:47 – Guest: I am interested to see how my stage career helps my developer career! 7:35 – Chuck. 7:39 – Guest: Some people need walk-up music. 7:51 – Chuck: How did you get into Ruby? 8:00 – Guest: I was the only person that had heard about the Internet, so that’s how I got the job! I went to Barnes & Noble and read books; kids: that is an actual place! 9:24 – Chuck: You are still using Ruby right? 9:26 – Guest: Yes I am! I have explored GO and other languages, too, b/c that helps my skills with Ruby. 10:14 – Chuck: What made you switch? How do you decide to make that switch? 10:26 – Guest: This book really helped me: “Why’s (Poignant) Guide to Ruby.” It invigorated my love for programming. 11:15 – Chuck: How long ago was that? 11:20 – Guest: About 7 years ago. 11:37 – Chuck: Some of the things you’ve done is conference organizing and speaking. Anything else? 11:50 – Guest answers the question. 13:17 – Chuck: What were your favorite talks to give and where? 13:30 – Guest: It really is hard to choose. I liked the one in Bath, UK last year: “Is Ruby Dead?” 15:00 – Chuck: Where do you see Ruby going? What’s the future like for Ruby? 15:10 – Guest: I think there are neat things that are happening in Ruby 3. 16:08 – Chuck: What other conferences are you involved with? 16:14 – Guest: Open Source & Feelings. (The guest goes into detail about what this conference has to offer!) 17:36 – Chuck: What should I be looking for there at CES (2019)? 17:52 – Guest answers. 18:39 – Guest: I have 6 Echos & Alexas in the house – do I need those many – probably not. 19:21 – Chuck: I think the same thing about giving / not giving my fingerprint to the government vs. Apple. 19:43 – Guest. 20:06 – Chuck: What are you working on now? 20:10 – Guest: If you have a problem with Ruby – I help with the Q&A and bug-support. Working on 2019 conferences, too! 20:43 – Chuck: Picks! 20:50 – Advertisement – Fresh Books! END – CacheFly Links: Ruby Elixir Rails Rust Python PHP RR 191 Episode with Kerri Miller RR 261 Episode with Kerri Miller Kerri Miller’s GitHub Kerri Miller’s Twitter Kerri Miller’s Website Sponsors: Get a Coder Job Cache Fly Fresh Books Picks: Kerri Motorcycle-riding Bear app Chuck Marathon – St. George Utah – October 5th Friend – John Sonmez Garmin Watch V.02 McKirdy Trained

Panel: Charles Max Wood Guest: A.J. O’Neal This week on My JavaScript Story, Charles talks with A.J. O’Neal who is a panelist on My JavaScript Jabber usually, but today he is a guest! The guys talk about AJ’s background and past/current projects. Today’s topics include: JavaScript, Ruby, jQuery, Rails, Node, Python, and more. In particular, we dive pretty deep on: 0:00 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! 1:23 – Chuck: Introduce yourself, please. 1:27 – AJ: I brief introduction: I am a quirky guy who is ADD and I love to figure out why/how things work. I like self-hosting or owning things in technology. 2:00 – Chuck: Where do you work now? 2:02 – AJ: I work in UTAH at Big Squid! 3:29 – AJ: I have my own company, too! 3:41 – Chuck: Yeah we’ve talked about that before. Where can we go? 3:54: AJ: We have 2 products that are both Node. Greenlock for Node.js is one of them! The other one is Telebit. 5:44 – Chuck: This interview is all about your background. How did you get into programming? 6:04 – AJ: I was in middle school but before that my grandmother was a secretary at the Pentagon. She worked on getting people paid and she wrote a program to assist these paychecks to be printed with fewer errors. Because of that she had a computer at home. I remember playing games on her computer. The guest talks about his background in more detail. 15:21 – Chuck: No it’s interesting! I’ve done a couple hundred interviews and they all say either: I went to school for it OR I did it for my free time. It’s interesting to see the similarities! 16:00 – AJ: Yep that’s pretty much how I got into it! I went on a church service mission to Albania and really didn’t do any computer work during those 2 years. 19:39 – Chuck: You went to BYU and your mission trip. A lot of that stuff I can relate to and identify with b/c I went to BYU and went on missions trip, too! And then you got into Ruby and that’s how we met was through Ruby! 20:25 – AJ: Yep that’s it. Then that’s when I learned about Node, too. There was a guy with a funny hate – do you remember that? (No.) 21:03 – Chuck: Maybe? 21:07 – AJ continues. 27:53 – Chuck: What made you make the transition? People come into and out of different technologies all the time. 28:18 – AJ: Yeah it started with me with jQuery! Rails has layers upon layers upon layers. AJ talks about different technologies their similarities/differences and mentions: JavaScript, Rails, Python, Node, Ruby, and much more. 31:05 – Chuck: Node went out of their way on certain platforms that Rails didn’t prioritize. 31:11 – AJ continues to talk about different technologies and platforms. 33:00 – Chuck: You get into Node and then at what point does this idea of a home-server and Node and everything start to come together? How much of this do you want to talk bout? At one point did they start to gel? 33:33 – AJ: It’s been a very long process and started back in high school. It started with me trying to think: How do I get this picture on my phone to my mom? I thought of uploading it to Flickr or could I do this or that? What about sending it to someone in China? 39:57 – Chuck. 40:01 – AJ continues and talks about libraries and certificate standards. 42:00 – AJ continues with the topic: certificates. 42:44 – Chuck: I am going to go to PICKS! Where can people find you? 42:55 – AJ: Twitter! Blog! GitHub! Anywhere! 43:55 – Chuck: Picks! 43:58 – Advertisement – Fresh Books! 30-Day Trial! END – Cache Fly Links: React Angular JavaScript Webpack.js Serverless jQuery Node AJ’s Twitter Chuck’s Twitter Sponsors: Cache Fly Get A Coder Job Fresh Books Picks: A.J. JC Penny! Stafford Shirts Express for Men Chris Ferdinandi’s GOMAKETHINGS. COM Chuck Wordpress – Plugin KingSumo Getdrip.com Softcover.io

Panel: Charles Max Wood Guest: A.J. O’Neal This week on My JavaScript Story, Charles talks with A.J. O’Neal who is a panelist on My JavaScript Jabber usually, but today he is a guest! The guys talk about AJ’s background and past/current projects. Today’s topics include: JavaScript, Ruby, jQuery, Rails, Node, Python, and more. In particular, we dive pretty deep on: 0:00 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! 1:23 – Chuck: Introduce yourself, please. 1:27 – AJ: I brief introduction: I am a quirky guy who is ADD and I love to figure out why/how things work. I like self-hosting or owning things in technology. 2:00 – Chuck: Where do you work now? 2:02 – AJ: I work in UTAH at Big Squid! 3:29 – AJ: I have my own company, too! 3:41 – Chuck: Yeah we’ve talked about that before. Where can we go? 3:54: AJ: We have 2 products that are both Node. Greenlock for Node.js is one of them! The other one is Telebit. 5:44 – Chuck: This interview is all about your background. How did you get into programming? 6:04 – AJ: I was in middle school but before that my grandmother was a secretary at the Pentagon. She worked on getting people paid and she wrote a program to assist these paychecks to be printed with fewer errors. Because of that she had a computer at home. I remember playing games on her computer. The guest talks about his background in more detail. 15:21 – Chuck: No it’s interesting! I’ve done a couple hundred interviews and they all say either: I went to school for it OR I did it for my free time. It’s interesting to see the similarities! 16:00 – AJ: Yep that’s pretty much how I got into it! I went on a church service mission to Albania and really didn’t do any computer work during those 2 years. 19:39 – Chuck: You went to BYU and your mission trip. A lot of that stuff I can relate to and identify with b/c I went to BYU and went on missions trip, too! And then you got into Ruby and that’s how we met was through Ruby! 20:25 – AJ: Yep that’s it. Then that’s when I learned about Node, too. There was a guy with a funny hate – do you remember that? (No.) 21:03 – Chuck: Maybe? 21:07 – AJ continues. 27:53 – Chuck: What made you make the transition? People come into and out of different technologies all the time. 28:18 – AJ: Yeah it started with me with jQuery! Rails has layers upon layers upon layers. AJ talks about different technologies their similarities/differences and mentions: JavaScript, Rails, Python, Node, Ruby, and much more. 31:05 – Chuck: Node went out of their way on certain platforms that Rails didn’t prioritize. 31:11 – AJ continues to talk about different technologies and platforms. 33:00 – Chuck: You get into Node and then at what point does this idea of a home-server and Node and everything start to come together? How much of this do you want to talk bout? At one point did they start to gel? 33:33 – AJ: It’s been a very long process and started back in high school. It started with me trying to think: How do I get this picture on my phone to my mom? I thought of uploading it to Flickr or could I do this or that? What about sending it to someone in China? 39:57 – Chuck. 40:01 – AJ continues and talks about libraries and certificate standards. 42:00 – AJ continues with the topic: certificates. 42:44 – Chuck: I am going to go to PICKS! Where can people find you? 42:55 – AJ: Twitter! Blog! GitHub! Anywhere! 43:55 – Chuck: Picks! 43:58 – Advertisement – Fresh Books! 30-Day Trial! END – Cache Fly Links: React Angular JavaScript Webpack.js Serverless jQuery Node AJ’s Twitter Chuck’s Twitter Sponsors: Cache Fly Get A Coder Job Fresh Books Picks: A.J. JC Penny! Stafford Shirts Express for Men Chris Ferdinandi’s GOMAKETHINGS. COM Chuck Wordpress – Plugin KingSumo Getdrip.com Softcover.io

Panel: Eric Berry Dave Kimura David Richards Charles Max Wood In this episode of Ruby Rogues, the panelists talk amongst themselves on today’s topic, which is “speculation on frameworks.” They consider where the tech community currently is right now, and where it’s heading towards the future. They bring-up topics such as: Rails, Ruby, Angular, Agile, and much more. Check it out! Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement: Sentry.io 1:47 – Chuck: Check out the DevRev 2:08 – Panel: A topic about “speculation” would be great today. What are we seeing in the community: what we like/don’t like, and what would you want to change? He talks about action text, JavaScript framework, and more. 3:41 – Chuck: Service-side rendering is what we talked about in the past. Divya does this with service–side rendering. For content sites that approach makes a lot of sense. I have playing around with this for the past week or so. I was taking it to rendering it to text. 4:39 – Panel: Yeah, that’s the way to go. 5:29 – Chuck: You are talking about a fully side UI. 5:45 – Panel: I thought it was just my age so I am glad we are talking about this. The hip kids want to make these beautiful frontend sites. I want to keep it simple and then justify more later. I guess I would never be as hip but as long as my stuff gets out there – that’s all that matters to me. 6:28 – Panel: Yeah don’t get me wrong...nobody will want to develop your product if it was built 30 years ago. If it is a startup you want it to look good with a nice UI. Nobody will purchase if it looks outdated. How much maintenance do I want to invest into this? Why add another component into that if you cannot maintain it. 7:56 – Chuck: Yeah I have come into this issue while building the Podcast Service that I am creating. 8:25 – Panel: These are good frameworks and they feel great. I don’t realize the complexity that I am taking on sometimes. I have a lot of complexity on my hands: did I need it? 9:02 – Chuck: Sometimes my problem is that I am trying to pull it in after-the-fact. Like the forms to animate or this and that have to slide in. I want a natural feel to the UX. I looked at React and then I didn’t go that way. I have been podcasting about Angular for 4 years, but it was a no-go for my project. For my solution – it makes sense to just get it going and get it rolling. 10:45 – Panel: When we do use Action Vue we are prone to get lazy. What I mean by that is making database calls. 12:01 – Panel: You can think: Inside-Out! That creates an identity around the project. If I can think of that before going in, then everyone knows what we are doing and what their role is. It’s really obvious. Simple things grow into bigger things. I am a fan of service-side objects. It’s a daily work process. That feels good to me and it’s programmatic for me. 13:24 – Chuck: You aren’t saying: I don’t want or I don’t need ... what you are saying is: I will get this tool when I need it. 13:45 – Panel: You can say: “Hey this is what we are going to do and WHY we are going to do it.” It’s nice to come back to old projects and to see that it’s still solid. It’s nice to see that and people own that software and didn’t have to keep updating. 15:06 – Chuck: It reminds me of the Agile development stuff. The approach between Angular and React and Vue are fairly different. They are reasonably different. There will be tradeoffs between which one to use. When you are making that decision then you can make the appropriate decision on that. 16:10 – Panel: I remember in the prior years when the Rails community grew their own people and you were a RAILS person; now it’s you’re a WEB person.  17:43 – Panel: In a lot of cases it’s good to see what’s out there and to see what’s new; especially early on if they end up being ahead of their time. Then you are an early pioneer in that area. There’s nothing wrong with that, but when you are introducing new things into your core you are running into unforeseeable risks. I am not an early adapter of React, but I know enough of the pros and cons of the framework. 19:48 – Panel: I like that. Maybe I “should” adapt that framework and maybe I am not the right person to do so. 21:06 – Chuck: Dave brought us to a new topic and that’s: being an early adapter. Some people want a name, some people want to invent stuff and so many more reasons “why.” I don’t want to “poo poo” the idea but you need to know WHY. 21:48 – Panel: The cost of developers is A LOT. I just think if I was building a house and I had that expense then I better get a really nice house out of it. I want to do a good job and that’s important. On the business – side they have to rely on us and decisions that are in the best interest for everyone. 22:50 – Fresh Books! 23:53 – Chuck: So what do you guys think about: what’s coming? Do you feel like things are going to move away from frontend frameworks? Will there be a large adoption curve? 24:30 – Panel: If we are talking about the space of Ruby on Rails then you want it to be maintainable. You don’t want to steer too far away from its core. 28:11 – Panel: Good I like that. There are great tools that we are getting through Google, Facebook and they have great tools for these apps. They are looking for the 1-person startup very much like Basecamp. It’s all possible that we are holding onto these technologies that are great but does it fit ME. Do I want to maintain things? Do I want to make this more complicated? Especially if I really don’t fit into what I’m trying to do. 29:13 – Panel: Yeah some people in the DOT NET world they were really struggling with some modern approaches. 30:42 – Panel: One of our listeners texted me b/c we are recording LIVE. Panelist reads off from a listener’s text message that uses a quote. 31:16 – Panel: When I started Ruby it was a PHP project and I couldn’t get there. I didn’t have enough bandwidth. It was easy for me to build the RAILS way. 32:02 – Chuck: I was introduced to PHP in college, early 2000’s. I really enjoyed it and I was fairly productive and then I found Rails. 32:27 – Panelist talks about PHP, flash frontend, and more. 34:42 – Chuck: Could and will something come along that will affect the way we write code? 34:56 – Panel: Yes, b/c I think technology is sustainable for a certain amount of time before things start to change again. Look at the iPhones and the Android phones. 38:26 – Panel: I think it takes time to do something well. Panelist talks about Rails, Ruby, data, and more! 40:25 – Panel: It’s interesting b/c the tradeoff used to be much bigger. The bandwidth is better, the screens are better, the way we do things are better. There is much of a tradeoff. That’s how people are interacting with our business and our products. I tend to write these flowery articles that I don’t publish. There was something in the air and in the mid-2000’s we were launching Netflix, and all of these things were happening at that time. A lot is happening now but it’s different now. Where are we going? Where would I be happy to work? If we can get on the phone and inside of our data and it just adds more value. It’s not an easy answer to “Where are we going?” but it’s good to talk about it b/c people might be afraid to ask and to answer. 43:13 – Chuck: Anything else or picks? 43:19 – Panel: We are saying today: we aren’t trying to break-out of this bubble, but we are saying: let’s get closer to the user and there is so much opportunity in THIS space!! 44:10 – Panel: The technology is tapped-out right now. 44:50 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! End – Cache Fly! Links: Get a Coder Job Course The DevRev Podcast Show Angular DevChat TV Ruby Elixir Ruby on Rails Angular Cypress Vue React Jest.io Mocha.js Book: Desert Cabal Habits for Hackers Home Depot: DeWalt Harbor Freight 11ty Masterminds Webinar Sponsors: Sentry CacheFly Fresh Books Picks: Dave Dewalt Drill Dust Collector David Habits for Hackers Desert Cabal (for funnies) Charles Mastermind Hunter 11ty.io

Panel: Eric Berry Dave Kimura David Richards Charles Max Wood In this episode of Ruby Rogues, the panelists talk amongst themselves on today’s topic, which is “speculation on frameworks.” They consider where the tech community currently is right now, and where it’s heading towards the future. They bring-up topics such as: Rails, Ruby, Angular, Agile, and much more. Check it out! Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement: Sentry.io 1:47 – Chuck: Check out the DevRev 2:08 – Panel: A topic about “speculation” would be great today. What are we seeing in the community: what we like/don’t like, and what would you want to change? He talks about action text, JavaScript framework, and more. 3:41 – Chuck: Service-side rendering is what we talked about in the past. Divya does this with service–side rendering. For content sites that approach makes a lot of sense. I have playing around with this for the past week or so. I was taking it to rendering it to text. 4:39 – Panel: Yeah, that’s the way to go. 5:29 – Chuck: You are talking about a fully side UI. 5:45 – Panel: I thought it was just my age so I am glad we are talking about this. The hip kids want to make these beautiful frontend sites. I want to keep it simple and then justify more later. I guess I would never be as hip but as long as my stuff gets out there – that’s all that matters to me. 6:28 – Panel: Yeah don’t get me wrong...nobody will want to develop your product if it was built 30 years ago. If it is a startup you want it to look good with a nice UI. Nobody will purchase if it looks outdated. How much maintenance do I want to invest into this? Why add another component into that if you cannot maintain it. 7:56 – Chuck: Yeah I have come into this issue while building the Podcast Service that I am creating. 8:25 – Panel: These are good frameworks and they feel great. I don’t realize the complexity that I am taking on sometimes. I have a lot of complexity on my hands: did I need it? 9:02 – Chuck: Sometimes my problem is that I am trying to pull it in after-the-fact. Like the forms to animate or this and that have to slide in. I want a natural feel to the UX. I looked at React and then I didn’t go that way. I have been podcasting about Angular for 4 years, but it was a no-go for my project. For my solution – it makes sense to just get it going and get it rolling. 10:45 – Panel: When we do use Action Vue we are prone to get lazy. What I mean by that is making database calls. 12:01 – Panel: You can think: Inside-Out! That creates an identity around the project. If I can think of that before going in, then everyone knows what we are doing and what their role is. It’s really obvious. Simple things grow into bigger things. I am a fan of service-side objects. It’s a daily work process. That feels good to me and it’s programmatic for me. 13:24 – Chuck: You aren’t saying: I don’t want or I don’t need ... what you are saying is: I will get this tool when I need it. 13:45 – Panel: You can say: “Hey this is what we are going to do and WHY we are going to do it.” It’s nice to come back to old projects and to see that it’s still solid. It’s nice to see that and people own that software and didn’t have to keep updating. 15:06 – Chuck: It reminds me of the Agile development stuff. The approach between Angular and React and Vue are fairly different. They are reasonably different. There will be tradeoffs between which one to use. When you are making that decision then you can make the appropriate decision on that. 16:10 – Panel: I remember in the prior years when the Rails community grew their own people and you were a RAILS person; now it’s you’re a WEB person.  17:43 – Panel: In a lot of cases it’s good to see what’s out there and to see what’s new; especially early on if they end up being ahead of their time. Then you are an early pioneer in that area. There’s nothing wrong with that, but when you are introducing new things into your core you are running into unforeseeable risks. I am not an early adapter of React, but I know enough of the pros and cons of the framework. 19:48 – Panel: I like that. Maybe I “should” adapt that framework and maybe I am not the right person to do so. 21:06 – Chuck: Dave brought us to a new topic and that’s: being an early adapter. Some people want a name, some people want to invent stuff and so many more reasons “why.” I don’t want to “poo poo” the idea but you need to know WHY. 21:48 – Panel: The cost of developers is A LOT. I just think if I was building a house and I had that expense then I better get a really nice house out of it. I want to do a good job and that’s important. On the business – side they have to rely on us and decisions that are in the best interest for everyone. 22:50 – Fresh Books! 23:53 – Chuck: So what do you guys think about: what’s coming? Do you feel like things are going to move away from frontend frameworks? Will there be a large adoption curve? 24:30 – Panel: If we are talking about the space of Ruby on Rails then you want it to be maintainable. You don’t want to steer too far away from its core. 28:11 – Panel: Good I like that. There are great tools that we are getting through Google, Facebook and they have great tools for these apps. They are looking for the 1-person startup very much like Basecamp. It’s all possible that we are holding onto these technologies that are great but does it fit ME. Do I want to maintain things? Do I want to make this more complicated? Especially if I really don’t fit into what I’m trying to do. 29:13 – Panel: Yeah some people in the DOT NET world they were really struggling with some modern approaches. 30:42 – Panel: One of our listeners texted me b/c we are recording LIVE. Panelist reads off from a listener’s text message that uses a quote. 31:16 – Panel: When I started Ruby it was a PHP project and I couldn’t get there. I didn’t have enough bandwidth. It was easy for me to build the RAILS way. 32:02 – Chuck: I was introduced to PHP in college, early 2000’s. I really enjoyed it and I was fairly productive and then I found Rails. 32:27 – Panelist talks about PHP, flash frontend, and more. 34:42 – Chuck: Could and will something come along that will affect the way we write code? 34:56 – Panel: Yes, b/c I think technology is sustainable for a certain amount of time before things start to change again. Look at the iPhones and the Android phones. 38:26 – Panel: I think it takes time to do something well. Panelist talks about Rails, Ruby, data, and more! 40:25 – Panel: It’s interesting b/c the tradeoff used to be much bigger. The bandwidth is better, the screens are better, the way we do things are better. There is much of a tradeoff. That’s how people are interacting with our business and our products. I tend to write these flowery articles that I don’t publish. There was something in the air and in the mid-2000’s we were launching Netflix, and all of these things were happening at that time. A lot is happening now but it’s different now. Where are we going? Where would I be happy to work? If we can get on the phone and inside of our data and it just adds more value. It’s not an easy answer to “Where are we going?” but it’s good to talk about it b/c people might be afraid to ask and to answer. 43:13 – Chuck: Anything else or picks? 43:19 – Panel: We are saying today: we aren’t trying to break-out of this bubble, but we are saying: let’s get closer to the user and there is so much opportunity in THIS space!! 44:10 – Panel: The technology is tapped-out right now. 44:50 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! End – Cache Fly! Links: Get a Coder Job Course The DevRev Podcast Show Angular DevChat TV Ruby Elixir Ruby on Rails Angular Cypress Vue React Jest.io Mocha.js Book: Desert Cabal Habits for Hackers Home Depot: DeWalt Harbor Freight 11ty Masterminds Webinar Sponsors: Sentry CacheFly Fresh Books Picks: Dave Dewalt Drill Dust Collector David Habits for Hackers Desert Cabal (for funnies) Charles Mastermind Hunter 11ty.io

Panel: Chris Fritz Charles Max Wood In this episode, the panel consists of Chris and Charles who talk about developer freedom. Chuck talks about his new show called The DevRev. The guys also talk about time management, answering e-mails, being self-employed, and their goals/hopes/dreams that they want to achieve in life. Check it out! Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement – Kendo UI 0:30 – Chuck: Hi! Today our panel is Chris and myself. My new show is The DevRev. There is a lot of aspect of our job that boil down to freedom. Figure out what they like to do and eliminate the things that they don’t like to do. I think it will be 5x a week and I will have a guest every week. What does freedom mean to you? What is your ideal coding situation where you don’t starve? 2:10 – Chris: Let me take a step-back. Why I got into coding it was even before that and it was education. I wanted to work with schools and not necessarily tied to only one school. As a programmer I cannot be asked to do things that I don’t agree with. 3:21 – Chuck: A lot of this thought-process came up b/c of my initial steps into my self-employment. I wanted to go to my son’s activities. I saw freelancing as an option and then had to do that b/c I got laid-off. I hate being told what to do. I have an HOA in my neighborhood and I hate it. They tell me when and how to mow my lawn. This is how I operate it. I hate that they tell me to mow my lawn. I want to talk to people who I want to talk to – that’s my idea of freedom. Everyone’s different idea of what “freedom” is will be different. 5:36 – Chris: I want more time to create more free stuff. Chris talks about DEV experience. 6:28 – Chuck: How did you get to that point of figuring out what you want to do? 6:44 – Chris: I still am figuring that out. I do have a lot of opportunities that are really exciting for me. It’s deciding what I like at that moment and choosing what I want to do vs. not what is going to wear me down. I don’t want to die with regret. There is a distinction between bad tired and good tired. You weren’t true to what you thought was right – and so you don’t settle easy. You toss and turn. I want to end with “good tired” both for the end of the day and for the end of my life. 8:00 – Chuck: I agree with that and I really identify with that. 8:44 – Chris: How do you measure yourself? 8:54 – Chuck: It’s hard to quantify it in only one idea. It’s hard to measure. I list out 5 things I need to do to get me closer to my [one] big goal. I have to get those 5 things done. Most of the time I can make it and I keep grinding on it before I can be done. 9:51 – Chris: My bar is pretty low. Is there more joy / more happiness in the world today in the world b/c of what I’ve done today? I know I will make mistakes in code – and that hurts, no day will be perfect. I try to have a net positive affect everyday. 10:53 – Chris: I can fall easily into depression if I have too many bad days back-to-back. 11:03 – Chuck: I agree and I have to take time off if that happens. 11:13 – Chris talks about open source work and he mentions HOPE IN SOURCE, also Babel. 12:23 – Chuck: When I got to church and there is this component of being together and working towards the same goals. It’s more than just community. There is a real – something in common that we have. 12:57 – Chris: Do you think it’s similar to open source? 13:05 – Chuck: You can watch a podcast in-lieu of an actual in-person sermon. In my church community it’s – Building Each Other Up. It’s not the same for when I contribute to open source. 13:43 – Chris: I ask myself: Is it of value? If I were to die would that work help progress the humankind? By the time I die - I will be completely useless b/c everything in my head is out there in other peoples’ heads. 14:35 – Chuck: When I am gone – I want someone to step into my void and continue that. These shows should be able to go on even if I am not around. I want to make sure that these shows can keep going. 15:48 – Chris: How can we build each other up? We want to have opportunities to grow. I try to provide that for members of the team and vice versa. The amount of respect that I have seen in my communities is quite amazing. I admire Thorsten on the Vue team a lot. (Thorsten’s Twitter.) He talked about compassion and how to communicate with each other and code with compassion. That’s better community and better software. You are forced to thin from multiple perspectives. You want to learn from these various perspectives. 17:44 – Chuck: The ideas behind the camaraderie are great. 17:56 – Chris: And Sarah Drasner! 18:38 – Chuck: She probably feels fulfilled when she helps you out (Sarah). 18:54 – Chuck: We all have to look for those opportunities and take them! 19:08 – Chuck: We have been talking about personal fulfillment. For me writing some awesome code in Vue there is Boiler Plate or running the tests. 19:52 – Chuck: What tools light you up? 20:02 – Chris: I am a bit of a weirdo. I feel pretty good when I am hitting myself against a wall for 9 hours. I like feeling obsessed about something and defeating it. I love it. 21:21 – Chuck: The things that make you bang your head against the wall is awful for me. I like writing code that helps someone. (Chris: I like the challenge.) We will be charged up for different things. You like the challenge and it empowers me to help others out. 22:21 – Chris: I like learning more about how something works. I want to save people a lot of work. There has to be a social connection or I will have a hard time even attempting it. 22:52 – Chris: I also play video games where there are no social connections. I played the Witness a few months ago and I loved the puzzles. 23:45 – Chuck: What other tools are you using? 23:57 – Chris: Webpack is the best took for creating the ideal development scenario. 24:47 – Chuck mentions Boiler Plate. 25:00 – Chris: It was built to help large teams and/or large applications.  I built some other projects like: Hello Vue Components & (with John Papa) Vue Monolith Example. 27:07 – Chuck: Anything else that you consider to be “freeing?” 27:13 – Chris: I like working from home. I like having my routines – they make me happy and productive. Having full control over that makes me happy. The only thing I have is my wife and my cat. 28:12 – Chuck: Yeah I don’t miss driving through traffic. 28:44 – Chris: I don’t like to be around people all day. 30:40 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! 31:05 – Chris: Online I get a couple dozen people reaching out to me for different things: completely out-of-the-blue. I want to respond to most of those people but... 33:12 – Chuck: If it’s not on my calendar it won’t happen. I will get those e-mails that can be very time consuming. 33:35 – Chris: When they are asking for something “simple” – it’s not always simple. 34:30 – Chuck: I want to help everybody and that can be a problem. 35:02 – Chris: They are reaching out to me and I want to help. 35:56 – Chuck and Chris go back-and-forth. 36:18 – Chris: How do you figure out how to write a short enough response to the email – to only do 30 minutes? 36:44 – Chuck: Can I answer it in one minute? Nope – so it will go into another pile later in the week. I’ve replied saying: Here is my short-answer and for the long-answer see these references. I star those e-mails that will take too long to respond. 37:50 – Chris and Chuck go back-and-forth. 38:06 – Chuck: Your question is so good – here is the link to the blog that I wrote. 38:37 – Chris: I want to document to point people HERE to past blogs that I’ve written or to someone else’s blog. I feel guilty when I have to delegate. 39:35 – Chuck: I don’t have a problem delegating b/c that’s why I’m paying them. Everyone has his or her own role.  40:40 – Chris: Yeah that makes sense when it’s their job. 41:30 – Chuck: I know working together as a team will free me up in my areas of excellence. 41:49 – Chris: I am having a hard time with this right now. 43:36 – Chuck: We are looking for someone to fill this role and this is the job description. This way you can be EXCELLENT at what you do. You aren’t being pulled too thin. 44:19 – Chris: I have been trying to delegate more. 45:04 – Chuck: Yeah I have been trying to do more with my business, too. What do I want to do in the community? What is my focus? What is my mission and values for the business? Then you knock it out of the park! 45:51 – Chris: As a teacher it is really helpful and really not helpful. You are leading and shaping their experiences. You don’t have options to delegate. 46:27 – Chuck: Yeah my mother is a math teacher. 46:37 – Chuck: Yeah she has 10 kids, so she helps to delegate with force. She is the department head for mathematics and she does delegate some things. It’s you to teach the course. 47:18 – Chris: What promoted you to start this podcast? Is it more personal? 47:30 – Chuck talks about why he is starting this new podcast. 48:10 – Chuck: My business coach said to me: write a mission statement. When I did that things started having clarity for me. Chuck talks about the plan for the DevRev! 55:20 – Chris: I am looking forward to it! 55:34 – Chuck: It will be recorded via video through YouTube, too, in addition to iTunes (hopefully). 55:52 – Chris & Chuck: Picks! 55:58 – Advertisement – Fresh Books! DEVCHAT code. 30-day trial. Links: Vue React JavaScript C# C++ C++ Programming / Memory Management Angular Blazor JavaScript DevChat TV VueCLI Boiler Plate Hello Vue Components Vue Monolith Example Thorsten’s Twitter Sarah’s Twitter Ben Hong’s Twitter Jacob Schatz’ Twitter Vue Vixens The DevRev Sponsors: Fresh Books Cache Fly Kendo UI Get A Coder Job! Picks: Chris Vue Vixens Charles repurpose.io MFCEO Project Podcast Game - Test Version

Panel: Eric Berry Dave Kimura David Richards Charles Max Wood In this episode of Ruby Rogues, the panelists talk amongst themselves on today’s topic, which is “speculation on frameworks.” They consider where the tech community currently is right now, and where it’s heading towards the future. They bring-up topics such as: Rails, Ruby, Angular, Agile, and much more. Check it out! Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement: Sentry.io 1:47 – Chuck: Check out the DevRev 2:08 – Panel: A topic about “speculation” would be great today. What are we seeing in the community: what we like/don’t like, and what would you want to change? He talks about action text, JavaScript framework, and more. 3:41 – Chuck: Service-side rendering is what we talked about in the past. Divya does this with service–side rendering. For content sites that approach makes a lot of sense. I have playing around with this for the past week or so. I was taking it to rendering it to text. 4:39 – Panel: Yeah, that’s the way to go. 5:29 – Chuck: You are talking about a fully side UI. 5:45 – Panel: I thought it was just my age so I am glad we are talking about this. The hip kids want to make these beautiful frontend sites. I want to keep it simple and then justify more later. I guess I would never be as hip but as long as my stuff gets out there – that’s all that matters to me. 6:28 – Panel: Yeah don’t get me wrong...nobody will want to develop your product if it was built 30 years ago. If it is a startup you want it to look good with a nice UI. Nobody will purchase if it looks outdated. How much maintenance do I want to invest into this? Why add another component into that if you cannot maintain it. 7:56 – Chuck: Yeah I have come into this issue while building the Podcast Service that I am creating. 8:25 – Panel: These are good frameworks and they feel great. I don’t realize the complexity that I am taking on sometimes. I have a lot of complexity on my hands: did I need it? 9:02 – Chuck: Sometimes my problem is that I am trying to pull it in after-the-fact. Like the forms to animate or this and that have to slide in. I want a natural feel to the UX. I looked at React and then I didn’t go that way. I have been podcasting about Angular for 4 years, but it was a no-go for my project. For my solution – it makes sense to just get it going and get it rolling. 10:45 – Panel: When we do use Action Vue we are prone to get lazy. What I mean by that is making database calls. 12:01 – Panel: You can think: Inside-Out! That creates an identity around the project. If I can think of that before going in, then everyone knows what we are doing and what their role is. It’s really obvious. Simple things grow into bigger things. I am a fan of service-side objects. It’s a daily work process. That feels good to me and it’s programmatic for me. 13:24 – Chuck: You aren’t saying: I don’t want or I don’t need ... what you are saying is: I will get this tool when I need it. 13:45 – Panel: You can say: “Hey this is what we are going to do and WHY we are going to do it.” It’s nice to come back to old projects and to see that it’s still solid. It’s nice to see that and people own that software and didn’t have to keep updating. 15:06 – Chuck: It reminds me of the Agile development stuff. The approach between Angular and React and Vue are fairly different. They are reasonably different. There will be tradeoffs between which one to use. When you are making that decision then you can make the appropriate decision on that. 16:10 – Panel: I remember in the prior years when the Rails community grew their own people and you were a RAILS person; now it’s you’re a WEB person.  17:43 – Panel: In a lot of cases it’s good to see what’s out there and to see what’s new; especially early on if they end up being ahead of their time. Then you are an early pioneer in that area. There’s nothing wrong with that, but when you are introducing new things into your core you are running into unforeseeable risks. I am not an early adapter of React, but I know enough of the pros and cons of the framework. 19:48 – Panel: I like that. Maybe I “should” adapt that framework and maybe I am not the right person to do so. 21:06 – Chuck: Dave brought us to a new topic and that’s: being an early adapter. Some people want a name, some people want to invent stuff and so many more reasons “why.” I don’t want to “poo poo” the idea but you need to know WHY. 21:48 – Panel: The cost of developers is A LOT. I just think if I was building a house and I had that expense then I better get a really nice house out of it. I want to do a good job and that’s important. On the business – side they have to rely on us and decisions that are in the best interest for everyone. 22:50 – Fresh Books! 23:53 – Chuck: So what do you guys think about: what’s coming? Do you feel like things are going to move away from frontend frameworks? Will there be a large adoption curve? 24:30 – Panel: If we are talking about the space of Ruby on Rails then you want it to be maintainable. You don’t want to steer too far away from its core. 28:11 – Panel: Good I like that. There are great tools that we are getting through Google, Facebook and they have great tools for these apps. They are looking for the 1-person startup very much like Basecamp. It’s all possible that we are holding onto these technologies that are great but does it fit ME. Do I want to maintain things? Do I want to make this more complicated? Especially if I really don’t fit into what I’m trying to do. 29:13 – Panel: Yeah some people in the DOT NET world they were really struggling with some modern approaches. 30:42 – Panel: One of our listeners texted me b/c we are recording LIVE. Panelist reads off from a listener’s text message that uses a quote. 31:16 – Panel: When I started Ruby it was a PHP project and I couldn’t get there. I didn’t have enough bandwidth. It was easy for me to build the RAILS way. 32:02 – Chuck: I was introduced to PHP in college, early 2000’s. I really enjoyed it and I was fairly productive and then I found Rails. 32:27 – Panelist talks about PHP, flash frontend, and more. 34:42 – Chuck: Could and will something come along that will affect the way we write code? 34:56 – Panel: Yes, b/c I think technology is sustainable for a certain amount of time before things start to change again. Look at the iPhones and the Android phones. 38:26 – Panel: I think it takes time to do something well. Panelist talks about Rails, Ruby, data, and more! 40:25 – Panel: It’s interesting b/c the tradeoff used to be much bigger. The bandwidth is better, the screens are better, the way we do things are better. There is much of a tradeoff. That’s how people are interacting with our business and our products. I tend to write these flowery articles that I don’t publish. There was something in the air and in the mid-2000’s we were launching Netflix, and all of these things were happening at that time. A lot is happening now but it’s different now. Where are we going? Where would I be happy to work? If we can get on the phone and inside of our data and it just adds more value. It’s not an easy answer to “Where are we going?” but it’s good to talk about it b/c people might be afraid to ask and to answer. 43:13 – Chuck: Anything else or picks? 43:19 – Panel: We are saying today: we aren’t trying to break-out of this bubble, but we are saying: let’s get closer to the user and there is so much opportunity in THIS space!! 44:10 – Panel: The technology is tapped-out right now. 44:50 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! End – Cache Fly! Links: Get a Coder Job Course The DevRev Podcast Show Angular DevChat TV Ruby Elixir Ruby on Rails Angular Cypress Vue React Jest.io Mocha.js Book: Desert Cabal Habits for Hackers Home Depot: DeWalt Harbor Freight 11ty Masterminds Webinar Sponsors: Sentry CacheFly Fresh Books Picks: Dave Dewalt Drill Dust Collector David Habits for Hackers Desert Cabal (for funnies) Charles Mastermind Hunter 11ty.io

Panel: Chris Fritz Charles Max Wood In this episode, the panel consists of Chris and Charles who talk about developer freedom. Chuck talks about his new show called The DevRev. The guys also talk about time management, answering e-mails, being self-employed, and their goals/hopes/dreams that they want to achieve in life. Check it out! Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement – Kendo UI 0:30 – Chuck: Hi! Today our panel is Chris and myself. My new show is The DevRev. There is a lot of aspect of our job that boil down to freedom. Figure out what they like to do and eliminate the things that they don’t like to do. I think it will be 5x a week and I will have a guest every week. What does freedom mean to you? What is your ideal coding situation where you don’t starve? 2:10 – Chris: Let me take a step-back. Why I got into coding it was even before that and it was education. I wanted to work with schools and not necessarily tied to only one school. As a programmer I cannot be asked to do things that I don’t agree with. 3:21 – Chuck: A lot of this thought-process came up b/c of my initial steps into my self-employment. I wanted to go to my son’s activities. I saw freelancing as an option and then had to do that b/c I got laid-off. I hate being told what to do. I have an HOA in my neighborhood and I hate it. They tell me when and how to mow my lawn. This is how I operate it. I hate that they tell me to mow my lawn. I want to talk to people who I want to talk to – that’s my idea of freedom. Everyone’s different idea of what “freedom” is will be different. 5:36 – Chris: I want more time to create more free stuff. Chris talks about DEV experience. 6:28 – Chuck: How did you get to that point of figuring out what you want to do? 6:44 – Chris: I still am figuring that out. I do have a lot of opportunities that are really exciting for me. It’s deciding what I like at that moment and choosing what I want to do vs. not what is going to wear me down. I don’t want to die with regret. There is a distinction between bad tired and good tired. You weren’t true to what you thought was right – and so you don’t settle easy. You toss and turn. I want to end with “good tired” both for the end of the day and for the end of my life. 8:00 – Chuck: I agree with that and I really identify with that. 8:44 – Chris: How do you measure yourself? 8:54 – Chuck: It’s hard to quantify it in only one idea. It’s hard to measure. I list out 5 things I need to do to get me closer to my [one] big goal. I have to get those 5 things done. Most of the time I can make it and I keep grinding on it before I can be done. 9:51 – Chris: My bar is pretty low. Is there more joy / more happiness in the world today in the world b/c of what I’ve done today? I know I will make mistakes in code – and that hurts, no day will be perfect. I try to have a net positive affect everyday. 10:53 – Chris: I can fall easily into depression if I have too many bad days back-to-back. 11:03 – Chuck: I agree and I have to take time off if that happens. 11:13 – Chris talks about open source work and he mentions HOPE IN SOURCE, also Babel. 12:23 – Chuck: When I got to church and there is this component of being together and working towards the same goals. It’s more than just community. There is a real – something in common that we have. 12:57 – Chris: Do you think it’s similar to open source? 13:05 – Chuck: You can watch a podcast in-lieu of an actual in-person sermon. In my church community it’s – Building Each Other Up. It’s not the same for when I contribute to open source. 13:43 – Chris: I ask myself: Is it of value? If I were to die would that work help progress the humankind? By the time I die - I will be completely useless b/c everything in my head is out there in other peoples’ heads. 14:35 – Chuck: When I am gone – I want someone to step into my void and continue that. These shows should be able to go on even if I am not around. I want to make sure that these shows can keep going. 15:48 – Chris: How can we build each other up? We want to have opportunities to grow. I try to provide that for members of the team and vice versa. The amount of respect that I have seen in my communities is quite amazing. I admire Thorsten on the Vue team a lot. (Thorsten’s Twitter.) He talked about compassion and how to communicate with each other and code with compassion. That’s better community and better software. You are forced to thin from multiple perspectives. You want to learn from these various perspectives. 17:44 – Chuck: The ideas behind the camaraderie are great. 17:56 – Chris: And Sarah Drasner! 18:38 – Chuck: She probably feels fulfilled when she helps you out (Sarah). 18:54 – Chuck: We all have to look for those opportunities and take them! 19:08 – Chuck: We have been talking about personal fulfillment. For me writing some awesome code in Vue there is Boiler Plate or running the tests. 19:52 – Chuck: What tools light you up? 20:02 – Chris: I am a bit of a weirdo. I feel pretty good when I am hitting myself against a wall for 9 hours. I like feeling obsessed about something and defeating it. I love it. 21:21 – Chuck: The things that make you bang your head against the wall is awful for me. I like writing code that helps someone. (Chris: I like the challenge.) We will be charged up for different things. You like the challenge and it empowers me to help others out. 22:21 – Chris: I like learning more about how something works. I want to save people a lot of work. There has to be a social connection or I will have a hard time even attempting it. 22:52 – Chris: I also play video games where there are no social connections. I played the Witness a few months ago and I loved the puzzles. 23:45 – Chuck: What other tools are you using? 23:57 – Chris: Webpack is the best took for creating the ideal development scenario. 24:47 – Chuck mentions Boiler Plate. 25:00 – Chris: It was built to help large teams and/or large applications.  I built some other projects like: Hello Vue Components & (with John Papa) Vue Monolith Example. 27:07 – Chuck: Anything else that you consider to be “freeing?” 27:13 – Chris: I like working from home. I like having my routines – they make me happy and productive. Having full control over that makes me happy. The only thing I have is my wife and my cat. 28:12 – Chuck: Yeah I don’t miss driving through traffic. 28:44 – Chris: I don’t like to be around people all day. 30:40 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! 31:05 – Chris: Online I get a couple dozen people reaching out to me for different things: completely out-of-the-blue. I want to respond to most of those people but... 33:12 – Chuck: If it’s not on my calendar it won’t happen. I will get those e-mails that can be very time consuming. 33:35 – Chris: When they are asking for something “simple” – it’s not always simple. 34:30 – Chuck: I want to help everybody and that can be a problem. 35:02 – Chris: They are reaching out to me and I want to help. 35:56 – Chuck and Chris go back-and-forth. 36:18 – Chris: How do you figure out how to write a short enough response to the email – to only do 30 minutes? 36:44 – Chuck: Can I answer it in one minute? Nope – so it will go into another pile later in the week. I’ve replied saying: Here is my short-answer and for the long-answer see these references. I star those e-mails that will take too long to respond. 37:50 – Chris and Chuck go back-and-forth. 38:06 – Chuck: Your question is so good – here is the link to the blog that I wrote. 38:37 – Chris: I want to document to point people HERE to past blogs that I’ve written or to someone else’s blog. I feel guilty when I have to delegate. 39:35 – Chuck: I don’t have a problem delegating b/c that’s why I’m paying them. Everyone has his or her own role.  40:40 – Chris: Yeah that makes sense when it’s their job. 41:30 – Chuck: I know working together as a team will free me up in my areas of excellence. 41:49 – Chris: I am having a hard time with this right now. 43:36 – Chuck: We are looking for someone to fill this role and this is the job description. This way you can be EXCELLENT at what you do. You aren’t being pulled too thin. 44:19 – Chris: I have been trying to delegate more. 45:04 – Chuck: Yeah I have been trying to do more with my business, too. What do I want to do in the community? What is my focus? What is my mission and values for the business? Then you knock it out of the park! 45:51 – Chris: As a teacher it is really helpful and really not helpful. You are leading and shaping their experiences. You don’t have options to delegate. 46:27 – Chuck: Yeah my mother is a math teacher. 46:37 – Chuck: Yeah she has 10 kids, so she helps to delegate with force. She is the department head for mathematics and she does delegate some things. It’s you to teach the course. 47:18 – Chris: What promoted you to start this podcast? Is it more personal? 47:30 – Chuck talks about why he is starting this new podcast. 48:10 – Chuck: My business coach said to me: write a mission statement. When I did that things started having clarity for me. Chuck talks about the plan for the DevRev! 55:20 – Chris: I am looking forward to it! 55:34 – Chuck: It will be recorded via video through YouTube, too, in addition to iTunes (hopefully). 55:52 – Chris & Chuck: Picks! 55:58 – Advertisement – Fresh Books! DEVCHAT code. 30-day trial. Links: Vue React JavaScript C# C++ C++ Programming / Memory Management Angular Blazor JavaScript DevChat TV VueCLI Boiler Plate Hello Vue Components Vue Monolith Example Thorsten’s Twitter Sarah’s Twitter Ben Hong’s Twitter Jacob Schatz’ Twitter Vue Vixens The DevRev Sponsors: Fresh Books Cache Fly Kendo UI Get A Coder Job! Picks: Chris Vue Vixens Charles repurpose.io MFCEO Project Podcast Game - Test Version

Panel: Charles Max Wood Guest: Gareth McCumskey This week on My JavaScript Story, Charles talks with Gareth McCumskey who is a senior web developer for RunwaySale! They talk about Gareth’s background, current projects and his family. Check out today’s episode to hear all about it and much more! In particular, we dive pretty deep on: 0:00 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! 0:53 – Chuck: Hey everyone! Welcome! We are talking today with Gareth McCumseky! 1:05 – Gareth: Hi! 1:22 – Chuck: Are you from Cape Town, Africa? (Guest: Yes!) 1:35 – Gareth and Chuck talk about his name, Gareth, and why it’s popular.  1:49 – Chuck: I am in my late 40’s. You were here for JSJ’s Episode 291! It’s still a hot topic and probably should revisit that topic. 2:20 – Guest: Yes! 2:30 – Chuck: It’s interesting. We had a long talk about it and people should go listen to it! 2:45 – Guest: I am a backend developer for the most part. 3:03 – Chuck: Yeah I started off as an ops guy. It probably hurt me. 3:21 – Guest: Yeah, if you poke it a certain way. 3:29 – Chuck: Let’s talk about YOU! How did you get into programming? 3:39 – Guest: South Africa is a different culture to grow-up in vs. U.S. and other places. I remember the computer that my father had back in the day. He led me drive his car about 1km away and I was about 11 years old. We would take home the computer from his office – played around with it during the weekend – and put it back into his office Monday morning. This was way before the Internet. I was fiddling with it for sure. The guest talks about BASIC. 6:20 – Chuck: How did you transfer from building BASIC apps to JavaScript apps? 6:30 – Guest: Yeah that’s a good story. When I was 19 years old...I went to college and studied geology and tried to run an IT business on the side. I started to build things for HTML and CSS and build things for the Web. The guest goes into-detail about his background! 9:26 – Chuck: Yeah, jQuery was so awesome! 9:34 – Guest: Yeah today I am working on an app that uses jQuery! You get used to it, and it’s pretty powerful (jQuery) for what it is/what it does! It has neat tricks. 10:11 – Chuck: I’ve started a site with it b/c it was easy. 10:19 – Guest: Sometimes you don’t need the full out thing. Maybe you just need to load a page here and there, and that’s it. 10:39 – Chuck: It’s a different world – definitely! 10:48 – Guest: Yeah in 2015/2016 is when I picked up JavaScript again. It was b/c around that time we were expecting our first child and that’s where we wanted to be to raise her. Guest: We use webpack.js now. It opened my eyes to see how powerful JavaScript is! 12:10 – Chuck talks about Node.js. 12:21 – Guest: Even today, I got into AWS Cognito! 13:45 – Chuck: You say that your problems are unique – and from the business end I want something that I can resolve quickly. Your solution sounds good. I don’t like messing around with the headaches from Node and others. 14:22 – Guest: Yeah that’s the biggest selling point that I’ve had. 15:47 – Chuck: How did you get into serverless? 15:49 – Guest: Funny experience. I am not the expert and I only write the backend stuff. Guest: At the time, we wanted to improve the reliability of the machine and the site itself. He said to try serverless.com. At the time I wasn’t impressed but then when he suggested it – I took the recommendation more seriously. My company that I work for now... 17:39 – Chuck: What else are you working on? 17:45 – Guest: Some local projects – dining service that refunds you. You pay for a subscription, but find a cheaper way to spend money when you are eating out. It’s called: GOING OUT. Guest: My 3-year-old daughter and my wife is expecting our second child. 18:56 – Chuck and Gareth talk about family and their children. 22:17 – Chuck: Picks! 22:29 – Advertisement – Fresh Books! 30-Day Trial! END – Cache Fly Links: React Angular JavaScript Webpack.js Serverless jQuery Node AWS Cognito Gareth’s Website Gareth’s GitHub Gareth’s Twitter Sponsors: Cache Fly Get A Coder Job Fresh Books Picks: Charles Max Wood Podcasts: MFCEO Project & Gary Vaynerchuk Pokémon Go! Gareth McCumskey Serverless.com Ingress Prime

Panel: Charles Max Wood Guest: Gareth McCumskey This week on My JavaScript Story, Charles talks with Gareth McCumskey who is a senior web developer for RunwaySale! They talk about Gareth’s background, current projects and his family. Check out today’s episode to hear all about it and much more! In particular, we dive pretty deep on: 0:00 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! 0:53 – Chuck: Hey everyone! Welcome! We are talking today with Gareth McCumseky! 1:05 – Gareth: Hi! 1:22 – Chuck: Are you from Cape Town, Africa? (Guest: Yes!) 1:35 – Gareth and Chuck talk about his name, Gareth, and why it’s popular.  1:49 – Chuck: I am in my late 40’s. You were here for JSJ’s Episode 291! It’s still a hot topic and probably should revisit that topic. 2:20 – Guest: Yes! 2:30 – Chuck: It’s interesting. We had a long talk about it and people should go listen to it! 2:45 – Guest: I am a backend developer for the most part. 3:03 – Chuck: Yeah I started off as an ops guy. It probably hurt me. 3:21 – Guest: Yeah, if you poke it a certain way. 3:29 – Chuck: Let’s talk about YOU! How did you get into programming? 3:39 – Guest: South Africa is a different culture to grow-up in vs. U.S. and other places. I remember the computer that my father had back in the day. He led me drive his car about 1km away and I was about 11 years old. We would take home the computer from his office – played around with it during the weekend – and put it back into his office Monday morning. This was way before the Internet. I was fiddling with it for sure. The guest talks about BASIC. 6:20 – Chuck: How did you transfer from building BASIC apps to JavaScript apps? 6:30 – Guest: Yeah that’s a good story. When I was 19 years old...I went to college and studied geology and tried to run an IT business on the side. I started to build things for HTML and CSS and build things for the Web. The guest goes into-detail about his background! 9:26 – Chuck: Yeah, jQuery was so awesome! 9:34 – Guest: Yeah today I am working on an app that uses jQuery! You get used to it, and it’s pretty powerful (jQuery) for what it is/what it does! It has neat tricks. 10:11 – Chuck: I’ve started a site with it b/c it was easy. 10:19 – Guest: Sometimes you don’t need the full out thing. Maybe you just need to load a page here and there, and that’s it. 10:39 – Chuck: It’s a different world – definitely! 10:48 – Guest: Yeah in 2015/2016 is when I picked up JavaScript again. It was b/c around that time we were expecting our first child and that’s where we wanted to be to raise her. Guest: We use webpack.js now. It opened my eyes to see how powerful JavaScript is! 12:10 – Chuck talks about Node.js. 12:21 – Guest: Even today, I got into AWS Cognito! 13:45 – Chuck: You say that your problems are unique – and from the business end I want something that I can resolve quickly. Your solution sounds good. I don’t like messing around with the headaches from Node and others. 14:22 – Guest: Yeah that’s the biggest selling point that I’ve had. 15:47 – Chuck: How did you get into serverless? 15:49 – Guest: Funny experience. I am not the expert and I only write the backend stuff. Guest: At the time, we wanted to improve the reliability of the machine and the site itself. He said to try serverless.com. At the time I wasn’t impressed but then when he suggested it – I took the recommendation more seriously. My company that I work for now... 17:39 – Chuck: What else are you working on? 17:45 – Guest: Some local projects – dining service that refunds you. You pay for a subscription, but find a cheaper way to spend money when you are eating out. It’s called: GOING OUT. Guest: My 3-year-old daughter and my wife is expecting our second child. 18:56 – Chuck and Gareth talk about family and their children. 22:17 – Chuck: Picks! 22:29 – Advertisement – Fresh Books! 30-Day Trial! END – Cache Fly Links: React Angular JavaScript Webpack.js Serverless jQuery Node AWS Cognito Gareth’s Website Gareth’s GitHub Gareth’s Twitter Sponsors: Cache Fly Get A Coder Job Fresh Books Picks: Charles Max Wood Podcasts: MFCEO Project & Gary Vaynerchuk Pokémon Go! Gareth McCumskey Serverless.com Ingress Prime

Panel: Charles Max Wood Guest: Joel Tanzi This week on My Angular Story, Charles speaks with Joel Tanzi who is a software engineer who currently resides in the Kansas City, Missouri metropolis. He has a degree from KU in computer engineering. They discuss how Joel made a career change in his mid-thirties and hasn’t looked back since! Listen to today’s episode to hear more about Joel’s background and current projects!  In particular, we dive pretty deep on: 0:00 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! 0:51 – Chuck: I am talking with Joel – introduce yourself, please! 1:00 – Joel: I am an Angular developer on the front end. I am employed with a company and working on a new app that has to do with security. I am building the front end to that product. I was studying computer engineering at KU, and Angular is my favorite. 2:00 – Chuck: How did you get into programming? 2:04 – Joel: I have always been fascinated with computers. I struggled with mathematics and science in primary school and so I steered away from those topics; therefore my first degree is English literature. Then I fell intro IT support accidentally. Back in 2006 I went through my 2nd layoff in my career. My friend asked whether or not I would go back to school, so I did! I went to get my engineering degree and relocated to KU. It took 9 years to get my 2nd degree, because I was working fulltime. When I was graduating I talked to an instructor; he mentioned JavaScript at that time. It was exploding in the world at that time. Then I got my first job downtown Kansas City. I haven’t looked back ever since. Have you heard about Knockout? I don’t get the impression that Knockout is popular anymore? (Chuck: No it’s not popular anymore.) I learned Angular and what I like the most about it is that I love how flexible and robust it was/is. 6:32 – Chuck: You found JavaScript and then found Angular – first people to get to Ionic from Angular. How did you get to that point? 6:54 – Joel: Good question! I was fairly new to that job. People already had exposure to it throughout the team/team members. 7:57 – Chuck: How was your transition from Angular 1 to Angular 2? 8:04 – Joel: I was never married to it. I do think that Angular 2 was a major step-up for me and was an important change that needed to happen. It was based on the same concepts. 8:39 – Chuck: What work in Angular are you most proud of? 8:42 – Joel: I think the application I am working on now b/c it looks THE best! Among other things, too. I volunteer through an organization that puts together tech projects for local governments. I got involved with them b/c I wanted more real world experience. It revolves around city streetlights. 11:03 – Chuck: Yeah, Code for America I’ve heard before! Sounds neat! 11:18 – Joel: I would recommend it especially if you are trying to break-into the field. I think community outreach is honorable and it shows initiative. 12:06 – Chuck: Yeah I need to put this into my Get A Coder job 12:23 – Joel: I have met coders within this realm and it’s a great networking opportunity! 12:35 – Chuck: What are you working on now? 12:37 – Joel: WordPress development! 13:46 – Joel (continues): Most lawyers don’t have a website b/c they don’t want to dabble with the technology. 13:59 – Chuck: Cool! I think it’s important to note that your 1st degree was literature and you went back to school. For my mom she went back, too. Were you older than the other students? 14:35 – Joel: I have a lot of things that went my way, which I was very blessed. The law firm that I worked for they had a huge support for people getting their degrees. They also gave me the flex hours, too! I am glad that I had that set-up and I know I was extremely blessed to have that support. It’s hard for people to work fulltime and to go to school – it’s definitely a challenge! I am stoked about veterans getting into the coder field and people with diverse backgrounds into this field; it’s very neat! 18:23 – Chuck: How old were you when you made that career change? 18:36 – Joel: In my mid/late thirties! 18:39 – Chuck: People think that they CAN’T go back to school b/c they are too “old” – when that’s not the case! I encourage people to give it a shot.  19:33 – Joel: There is never a better time to get into this work than now. 20:39 – Chuck: Where can people find you online? 20:45 – Joel: At my website – Stringly Typed! My LinkedIn! 21:45 – Fresh Books! END – CacheFly Links: jQuery Angular JavaScript Vue React Chuck’s Twitter Chuck’s E-mail: chuck@devchat.tv Joel’s LinkedIn Stringly Typed Sponsors: Get A Coder Job Fresh Books Cache Fly Picks: Joel Tanzi Code America Operation Code RxJS Chuck Max Wood Mastodon HubSpot

Panel: Charles Max Wood Guest: Joel Tanzi This week on My Angular Story, Charles speaks with Joel Tanzi who is a software engineer who currently resides in the Kansas City, Missouri metropolis. He has a degree from KU in computer engineering. They discuss how Joel made a career change in his mid-thirties and hasn’t looked back since! Listen to today’s episode to hear more about Joel’s background and current projects!  In particular, we dive pretty deep on: 0:00 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! 0:51 – Chuck: I am talking with Joel – introduce yourself, please! 1:00 – Joel: I am an Angular developer on the front end. I am employed with a company and working on a new app that has to do with security. I am building the front end to that product. I was studying computer engineering at KU, and Angular is my favorite. 2:00 – Chuck: How did you get into programming? 2:04 – Joel: I have always been fascinated with computers. I struggled with mathematics and science in primary school and so I steered away from those topics; therefore my first degree is English literature. Then I fell intro IT support accidentally. Back in 2006 I went through my 2nd layoff in my career. My friend asked whether or not I would go back to school, so I did! I went to get my engineering degree and relocated to KU. It took 9 years to get my 2nd degree, because I was working fulltime. When I was graduating I talked to an instructor; he mentioned JavaScript at that time. It was exploding in the world at that time. Then I got my first job downtown Kansas City. I haven’t looked back ever since. Have you heard about Knockout? I don’t get the impression that Knockout is popular anymore? (Chuck: No it’s not popular anymore.) I learned Angular and what I like the most about it is that I love how flexible and robust it was/is. 6:32 – Chuck: You found JavaScript and then found Angular – first people to get to Ionic from Angular. How did you get to that point? 6:54 – Joel: Good question! I was fairly new to that job. People already had exposure to it throughout the team/team members. 7:57 – Chuck: How was your transition from Angular 1 to Angular 2? 8:04 – Joel: I was never married to it. I do think that Angular 2 was a major step-up for me and was an important change that needed to happen. It was based on the same concepts. 8:39 – Chuck: What work in Angular are you most proud of? 8:42 – Joel: I think the application I am working on now b/c it looks THE best! Among other things, too. I volunteer through an organization that puts together tech projects for local governments. I got involved with them b/c I wanted more real world experience. It revolves around city streetlights. 11:03 – Chuck: Yeah, Code for America I’ve heard before! Sounds neat! 11:18 – Joel: I would recommend it especially if you are trying to break-into the field. I think community outreach is honorable and it shows initiative. 12:06 – Chuck: Yeah I need to put this into my Get A Coder job 12:23 – Joel: I have met coders within this realm and it’s a great networking opportunity! 12:35 – Chuck: What are you working on now? 12:37 – Joel: WordPress development! 13:46 – Joel (continues): Most lawyers don’t have a website b/c they don’t want to dabble with the technology. 13:59 – Chuck: Cool! I think it’s important to note that your 1st degree was literature and you went back to school. For my mom she went back, too. Were you older than the other students? 14:35 – Joel: I have a lot of things that went my way, which I was very blessed. The law firm that I worked for they had a huge support for people getting their degrees. They also gave me the flex hours, too! I am glad that I had that set-up and I know I was extremely blessed to have that support. It’s hard for people to work fulltime and to go to school – it’s definitely a challenge! I am stoked about veterans getting into the coder field and people with diverse backgrounds into this field; it’s very neat! 18:23 – Chuck: How old were you when you made that career change? 18:36 – Joel: In my mid/late thirties! 18:39 – Chuck: People think that they CAN’T go back to school b/c they are too “old” – when that’s not the case! I encourage people to give it a shot.  19:33 – Joel: There is never a better time to get into this work than now. 20:39 – Chuck: Where can people find you online? 20:45 – Joel: At my website – Stringly Typed! My LinkedIn! 21:45 – Fresh Books! END – CacheFly Links: jQuery Angular JavaScript Vue React Chuck’s Twitter Chuck’s E-mail: chuck@devchat.tv Joel’s LinkedIn Stringly Typed Sponsors: Get A Coder Job Fresh Books Cache Fly Picks: Joel Tanzi Code America Operation Code RxJS Chuck Max Wood Mastodon HubSpot

Panel: Charles Max Wood Guest: Gareth McCumskey This week on My JavaScript Story, Charles talks with Gareth McCumskey who is a senior web developer for RunwaySale! They talk about Gareth’s background, current projects and his family. Check out today’s episode to hear all about it and much more! In particular, we dive pretty deep on: 0:00 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! 0:53 – Chuck: Hey everyone! Welcome! We are talking today with Gareth McCumseky! 1:05 – Gareth: Hi! 1:22 – Chuck: Are you from Cape Town, Africa? (Guest: Yes!) 1:35 – Gareth and Chuck talk about his name, Gareth, and why it’s popular.  1:49 – Chuck: I am in my late 40’s. You were here for JSJ’s Episode 291! It’s still a hot topic and probably should revisit that topic. 2:20 – Guest: Yes! 2:30 – Chuck: It’s interesting. We had a long talk about it and people should go listen to it! 2:45 – Guest: I am a backend developer for the most part. 3:03 – Chuck: Yeah I started off as an ops guy. It probably hurt me. 3:21 – Guest: Yeah, if you poke it a certain way. 3:29 – Chuck: Let’s talk about YOU! How did you get into programming? 3:39 – Guest: South Africa is a different culture to grow-up in vs. U.S. and other places. I remember the computer that my father had back in the day. He led me drive his car about 1km away and I was about 11 years old. We would take home the computer from his office – played around with it during the weekend – and put it back into his office Monday morning. This was way before the Internet. I was fiddling with it for sure. The guest talks about BASIC. 6:20 – Chuck: How did you transfer from building BASIC apps to JavaScript apps? 6:30 – Guest: Yeah that’s a good story. When I was 19 years old...I went to college and studied geology and tried to run an IT business on the side. I started to build things for HTML and CSS and build things for the Web. The guest goes into-detail about his background! 9:26 – Chuck: Yeah, jQuery was so awesome! 9:34 – Guest: Yeah today I am working on an app that uses jQuery! You get used to it, and it’s pretty powerful (jQuery) for what it is/what it does! It has neat tricks. 10:11 – Chuck: I’ve started a site with it b/c it was easy. 10:19 – Guest: Sometimes you don’t need the full out thing. Maybe you just need to load a page here and there, and that’s it. 10:39 – Chuck: It’s a different world – definitely! 10:48 – Guest: Yeah in 2015/2016 is when I picked up JavaScript again. It was b/c around that time we were expecting our first child and that’s where we wanted to be to raise her. Guest: We use webpack.js now. It opened my eyes to see how powerful JavaScript is! 12:10 – Chuck talks about Node.js. 12:21 – Guest: Even today, I got into AWS Cognito! 13:45 – Chuck: You say that your problems are unique – and from the business end I want something that I can resolve quickly. Your solution sounds good. I don’t like messing around with the headaches from Node and others. 14:22 – Guest: Yeah that’s the biggest selling point that I’ve had. 15:47 – Chuck: How did you get into serverless? 15:49 – Guest: Funny experience. I am not the expert and I only write the backend stuff. Guest: At the time, we wanted to improve the reliability of the machine and the site itself. He said to try serverless.com. At the time I wasn’t impressed but then when he suggested it – I took the recommendation more seriously. My company that I work for now... 17:39 – Chuck: What else are you working on? 17:45 – Guest: Some local projects – dining service that refunds you. You pay for a subscription, but find a cheaper way to spend money when you are eating out. It’s called: GOING OUT. Guest: My 3-year-old daughter and my wife is expecting our second child. 18:56 – Chuck and Gareth talk about family and their children. 22:17 – Chuck: Picks! 22:29 – Advertisement – Fresh Books! 30-Day Trial! END – Cache Fly Links: React Angular JavaScript Webpack.js Serverless jQuery Node AWS Cognito Gareth’s Website Gareth’s GitHub Gareth’s Twitter Sponsors: Cache Fly Get A Coder Job Fresh Books Picks: Charles Max Wood Podcasts: MFCEO Project & Gary Vaynerchuk Pokémon Go! Gareth McCumskey Serverless.com Ingress Prime

Panel: Charles Max Wood Guest: Joel Tanzi This week on My Angular Story, Charles speaks with Joel Tanzi who is a software engineer who currently resides in the Kansas City, Missouri metropolis. He has a degree from KU in computer engineering. They discuss how Joel made a career change in his mid-thirties and hasn’t looked back since! Listen to today’s episode to hear more about Joel’s background and current projects!  In particular, we dive pretty deep on: 0:00 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! 0:51 – Chuck: I am talking with Joel – introduce yourself, please! 1:00 – Joel: I am an Angular developer on the front end. I am employed with a company and working on a new app that has to do with security. I am building the front end to that product. I was studying computer engineering at KU, and Angular is my favorite. 2:00 – Chuck: How did you get into programming? 2:04 – Joel: I have always been fascinated with computers. I struggled with mathematics and science in primary school and so I steered away from those topics; therefore my first degree is English literature. Then I fell intro IT support accidentally. Back in 2006 I went through my 2nd layoff in my career. My friend asked whether or not I would go back to school, so I did! I went to get my engineering degree and relocated to KU. It took 9 years to get my 2nd degree, because I was working fulltime. When I was graduating I talked to an instructor; he mentioned JavaScript at that time. It was exploding in the world at that time. Then I got my first job downtown Kansas City. I haven’t looked back ever since. Have you heard about Knockout? I don’t get the impression that Knockout is popular anymore? (Chuck: No it’s not popular anymore.) I learned Angular and what I like the most about it is that I love how flexible and robust it was/is. 6:32 – Chuck: You found JavaScript and then found Angular – first people to get to Ionic from Angular. How did you get to that point? 6:54 – Joel: Good question! I was fairly new to that job. People already had exposure to it throughout the team/team members. 7:57 – Chuck: How was your transition from Angular 1 to Angular 2? 8:04 – Joel: I was never married to it. I do think that Angular 2 was a major step-up for me and was an important change that needed to happen. It was based on the same concepts. 8:39 – Chuck: What work in Angular are you most proud of? 8:42 – Joel: I think the application I am working on now b/c it looks THE best! Among other things, too. I volunteer through an organization that puts together tech projects for local governments. I got involved with them b/c I wanted more real world experience. It revolves around city streetlights. 11:03 – Chuck: Yeah, Code for America I’ve heard before! Sounds neat! 11:18 – Joel: I would recommend it especially if you are trying to break-into the field. I think community outreach is honorable and it shows initiative. 12:06 – Chuck: Yeah I need to put this into my Get A Coder job 12:23 – Joel: I have met coders within this realm and it’s a great networking opportunity! 12:35 – Chuck: What are you working on now? 12:37 – Joel: WordPress development! 13:46 – Joel (continues): Most lawyers don’t have a website b/c they don’t want to dabble with the technology. 13:59 – Chuck: Cool! I think it’s important to note that your 1st degree was literature and you went back to school. For my mom she went back, too. Were you older than the other students? 14:35 – Joel: I have a lot of things that went my way, which I was very blessed. The law firm that I worked for they had a huge support for people getting their degrees. They also gave me the flex hours, too! I am glad that I had that set-up and I know I was extremely blessed to have that support. It’s hard for people to work fulltime and to go to school – it’s definitely a challenge! I am stoked about veterans getting into the coder field and people with diverse backgrounds into this field; it’s very neat! 18:23 – Chuck: How old were you when you made that career change? 18:36 – Joel: In my mid/late thirties! 18:39 – Chuck: People think that they CAN’T go back to school b/c they are too “old” – when that’s not the case! I encourage people to give it a shot.  19:33 – Joel: There is never a better time to get into this work than now. 20:39 – Chuck: Where can people find you online? 20:45 – Joel: At my website – Stringly Typed! My LinkedIn! 21:45 – Fresh Books! END – CacheFly Links: jQuery Angular JavaScript Vue React Chuck’s Twitter Chuck’s E-mail: chuck@devchat.tv Joel’s LinkedIn Stringly Typed Sponsors: Get A Coder Job Fresh Books Cache Fly Picks: Joel Tanzi Code America Operation Code RxJS Chuck Max Wood Mastodon HubSpot

Panel: Charles Max Wood Mark Ericksen Special Guest: Brujo Benavides  In this episode of Elixir Mix, the panel talks with Brujo Benavides (Argentina) who is a software engineer and uses a mix of Elixir, Erlang, and GO. They talk about the similarities and differences between Erlang and Elixir. Brujo talks about conferences that he organizes. You can find the guest through GitHub, Twitter, and About Me. Check it out! Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job!  0:58 – Chuck: Our special guest is Brujo B.! Let’s talk about the topic today, which is: Lessons from a decade of Erlang! We really haven’t talked about Erlang in the past. 1:47 – Mark: Can you give us your introduction, please? 1:55 – Guest: I started programming at 10 years old. I translated a guest to Spanish. Then after school I started working with other languages, until I did my thesis at the university. I got hired and then while there they taught me Erlang. After 2 years the company went away and died. When that happened I had my honeymoon plan to go to Europe. I went to Poland and found a company that interviewed me, I passed the test, and got hired. The best solution I could ever make. I moved from developer to another position, to director and then to CEO. 6:16 – Chuck: You have been doing Erlang for a while. My brain said 10 years of Elixir and that’s not possible – my bad. When Erlang came onto the scene how did that affect you? 6:40 – Guest answers Chuck’s question. 9:06 – Chuck: See show note links, please. It’s cool to see that you took cautious approaches to the language. What’s the balance between Erlang and Elixir? 9:33 – Guest: It’s about 45/45, because I also do GO. I don’t really like GO, but it’s whatever. 9:59 – Chuck: What has changed in the last 10 years? 10:09 – Guest: It’s my personal view on this and what I see at conferences. I saw a change from beginning Elixir as much acceptance and the community is more open. The people are already so developed already. 11:53 – Mark: I know there is an effort to make the beam languages more compatible. I know using a colon in the name and there’s a lot of communication there. At the last conference, they were talking about this. I think it’s neat that the community is not fighting this. In the early days it seems that the Erlang community were fighting it – what’s that transfer been like? 13:00 – Guest: There were other languages outside of Elixir with the beam. They failed and didn’t catch-on. 15:00 – Panel: How have you liked/disliked coding in Elixir vs. Erlang? 15:14 – Guest: I like many things that Elixir and Erlang can offer. Elixir is a mature and young language. There are many things that they corrected from day one. One thing I don’t like about Amber is that... 17:36 – Mark: I also use it b/c it does give that consistency. It normalizes all the different ways you can code. When I review people’s code I will take the code formatter and get it to be normalized. I am happy with it and I will take it. 18:17 – Guest: Everybody understands everybody’s code. 18:48 – Guest mentions Elvis. See links below. 19:00 – Chuck: It’s interesting. It comes down to community and in some ways it’s not that Erlang community isn’t a good one, but sounds like... 19:17 – Guest: The other thing that happened with the Erlang community is the topic of building websites. In 2015 it was in the Elixir Conference in San Francisco – I think – this is what happened... 20:47 – Mark: I think it’s a credit to both communities. I’ve watched those talks before. I was watching these Erlang Conferences and there have been Elixir speakers there. Good collaboration and I’m happy for that. 21:19 – Chuck: Will these 2 technologies grow together? 21:30 – Guest: Great mix of talks from Erlang and Elixir and talking about how to build systems. 22:49 – Mark: This blog post that you wrote – see show note links before. Can you mention the main topics that you wrote within this blog post? General lessons you’ve learned? 23:23 – Guest: The most important is how we start building stuff over common abstractions. 26:07 – FreshBooks! 27:11 – Mark: You mentioned the behaviors and the abstraction that is available through OTP is through the genserver. Those are and yes it’s true to educate people you will start with a spawn to see how simple things are. Yes, you don’t build a system on that. 27:55 – Guest: I recommend the talk to Spanish speakers. See links below. I asked for a translation but he said no. 29:10 – Mark: You talked also about test-driven development. How has testing in the Erlang community from the past and how has it been influenced by Elixir if at all? 29:53 – Guest: I am not sure. 32:34 – Mark: I don’t know how to spawn another node and have a disconnect in a testing framework? There might be other ways to do it? I would like to borrow that between the two. I’ve built some code that is cluster aware. Yeah I would love to have integration tests. Maybe that is available through Elixir- thanks for talking about that! 33:27 – Chuck: Anything else? Let’s talk about the Sawn Fest! 33:40 – Guest: It started in 2011 and started with a contest that anybody could participate. Judicators judged it and then awards were given. 34:38 – Chuck. 34:44 – Guest: The next year in 2012 the sponsors gave prizes. We were eagerly waiting but there was no contest that year. 37:47 – Chuck and guest go back-and-forth. 37:57 – Guest: There is a team of four now. If you go to the website it actually looks amazing unlike last year!! 39:19 – Mark: People will not hear about this, though, at the time it broadcasts b/c your episode is coming out after Nov. 24th - 25th. Can you do the game/contest remotely? 39:54 – Guest: Yes, people are playing from around the world from India, Denmark, Romania, Africa, and China! So yes you can do it from your house. 40:18 – Mark: What can people do or see or read about the winners? And after-the-fact? 40:32 – Guest: Yes when judges are judging we make the depositories public!! 42:05 – Chuck: My Sunday’s are usually pretty full. 42:19 – Guest: Yes that happened to me. As an organizer I cannot quit b/c I still have to be there. Time with my wife and kid is important, but yes it’s fun! 42:43 – Mark: Yes that shows how passionate they are about the community and the language. 42:56 – Chuck: Mind-blown! 43:10 – Chuck: You organize some conferences right? 43:17 – Guest: Yes. 44:25 – Chuck: Anything else? 44:30 – Mark: Dialyzer and curious about you organizing a Meetup? I have organized an Elixir Meetup. With Meetups how can you tell us how to make it successful? Are you doing both Erlang and Elixir? How are you running it? 45:10 – Guest answers the question. 51:53 – Chuck: How can people find you? 52:00 – Guest: GitHub! Twitter! About Me! (See links below.) 52:19 – Chuck: Picks! 52:20 – Ad: Lootcrate.com END – CacheFly! Links: Ruby Elixir Elixir: GenServer GenServers Elm JavaScript Visual Studio Code React Erlang Solutions Inaka Inaka Credo_Server Erlang Solutions Elvis 114 RR Elixir Show 048 RR Show 10 Lessons from Decade with Erlang YouTube Video in Spanish Erlang: Common_Test ExUnit Smalltalk SpawnFest 2018 SpawnFest Zoom Brujo’s Twitter Brujo’s Website Credo Sponsors: Loot Crate Get a Coder Job! Fresh Books CacheFly Picks: Mark Zoom Meeting Charles Mastodon Brujo Katana Test

Panel: Charles Max Wood Aimee Knight Chris Ferdinandi AJ O’Neal Special Guest: Andy Bell In this episode, the panel talks with Andy Bell who is an independent designer and developer who uses React, Vue, and Node. Today, the panelists and the guest talk about the power of progressive enhancements. Check it out! Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement: KENDO UI 0:34 – Chuck: Hi! Our panel is AJ, Aimee, Chris, myself and my new show is coming out in a few weeks, which is called the DevRev! It helps you with developer’s freedom! I am super excited. Our guest is Andy Bell. Introduce yourself, please. 2:00 – Guest: I am an independent designer and developer out in the U.K. 2:17 – Chuck: You wrote things about Vanilla.js. I am foreshadowing a few things and let’s talk about the power and progressive enhancement. 2:43 – The guest gives us definitions of power and progressive enhancements. He describes how it works. 3:10 – Chuck: I’ve heard that people would turn off JavaScript b/c it was security concern and then your progressive enhancement would make it work w/o JavaScript. I am sure there’s more than that? 3:28 – The guest talks about JavaScript, dependencies, among other things. 4:40 – Chuck: Your post did make that very clear I think. I am thinking I don’t even know where to start with this. Are people using the 6th version? How far back or what are we talking about here? 5:09 – Guest: You can go really far back and make it work w/o CSS. 5:49 – Chris: I am a big advocate of progressive enhancement – the pushback I get these days is that there is a divide; between the broadband era and AOL dialup. Are there compelling reasons why progressive enhancements even matter? 6:48 – Guest. 8:05 – Panel: My family lives out in the boonies. I am aware of 50% of American don’t have fast Internet. People don’t have access to fast browsers but I don’t think they are key metric users. 8:47 – Guest: It totally depends on what you need it for. It doesn’t matter if these people are paying or not. 9:31 – Chris: Assuming I have a commute on the trail and it goes through a spotty section. In a scenario that it’s dependent on the JS...are we talking about 2 different things here? 10:14 – Panelist chimes-in. 10:36 – Chris: I can take advantage of it even if I cannot afford a new machine. 10:55 – Panel: Where would this really matter to you? 11:05 – Chris: I do have a nice new laptop. 11:12 – Chuck: I had to hike up to the hill (near the house) to make a call and the connection was really poor (in OK). It’s not the norm but it can happen. 11:37 – Chris: Or how about the All Trails app when I am on the trail. 11:52 – Guest. 12:40 – Chris: I can remember at the time that the desktop sites it was popular to have... Chris: Most of those sites were inaccessible to me. 13:17 – Guest. 13:51 – Chuck: First-world countries will have a good connection and it’s not a big deal. If you are thinking though about your customers and where they live? Is that fair? I am thinking that my customers need to be able to access the podcast – what would you suggest? What are the things that you’d make sure is accessible to them. 14:31 – Guest: I like to pick on the minimum viable experience? I think to read the transcript is important than the audio (MP3). 15:47 – Chuck. 15:52 – Guest: It’s a lot easier with Vue b/c you don’t’ have to set aside rendering. 17:13 – AJ: I am thinking: that there is a way to start developing progressively and probably cheaper and easier to the person who is developing. If it saves us a buck and helps then we take action. 17:49 – Guest: It’s much easier if you start that way and if you enhance the feature itself. 18:38 – AJ: Let me ask: what are the situations where I wouldn’t / shouldn’t worry about progressive enhancements? 18:57 – Guest answers the question. 19:42 – AJ: I want people to feel motivated in a place WHERE to start. Something like a blog needs Java for comments. Hamburger menu is mentioned, too. 20:20 – Guest. 21:05 – Chris: Can we talk about code? 21:16 – Aimee: This is the direction I wanted to go. What do you mean by that – building your applications progressively? Aimee refers to his blog. 21:44 – Guest. 22:13 – Chuck: I use stock overflow! 22:20 – Guest. 22:24 – Chuck: I mean that’s what Chris uses! 22:33 – Guest (continues). 23:42 – Aimee. 23:54 – Chris. 24:09 – Chris 24:16 – Chris: Andy what do you think about that? 24:22 – Guest: Yes, that’s good. 24:35 – Chris: Where it falls apart is the resistance to progressive enhancements that it means that your approach has to be boring? 25:03 – Guest answers the question. The guest mentions modern CSS and modern JavaScript are mentioned along with tooling. 25:50 – Chuck: My issue is that when we talk about this (progressive enhancement) lowest common denominator and some user at some level (slow network) and then they can access it. Then the next level (better access) can access it. I start at the bottom and then go up. Then when they say progressive enhancement I get lost. Should I scrap it and then start over or what? 26:57 – Guest: If it’s feasible do it and then set a timeline up. 27:42 – Chuck: You are saying yes do it a layer at a time – but my question is HOW? What parts can I pair back? Are there guidelines to say: do this first and then how to test? 28:18 – Advertisement – Sentry.io 29:20 – Guest: Think about the user flow. What does the user want to do at THIS point? Do you need to work out the actual dependencies? 30:31 – Chuck: Is there a list of those capabilities somewhere? So these users can use it this way and these users can use it that way? 30:50 – Guest answers the question. 31:03 – Guest: You can pick out the big things. 31:30 – Chuck: I am using this feature in the browser... 31:41 – Guest. 31:46 – Chris: I think this differently than you Andy – I’ve stopped caring if a browser supports something new. I am fine using CSS grid and if your browser doesn’t support it then I don’t have a problem with that. I get hung up on, though if this fails can they still get the content? If they have no access to these – what should they be able to do? Note: “Cutting the Mustard Test” is mentioned. 33:37 – Guest. 33:44 – Chuck: Knowing your users and if it becomes a problem then I will figure it out. 34:00 – Chris: I couldn’t spare the time to make it happen right now b/c I am a one-man shop. 34:20 – Chuck and Chris go back-and-forth. 34:36 –Chris: Check out links below for my product. 34:54 – AJ: A lot of these things are in the name: progressive. 36:20 – Guest. 38:51 – Chris: Say that they haven’t looked at it all before. Do you mind talking about these things and what the heck is a web component? 39:14 – The guest gives us his definition of what a web component is. 40:02 – Chuck: Most recent episode in Angular about web components, but that was a few years ago. See links below for that episode. 40:25 – Aimee. 40:31 – Guest: Yes, it’s a lot like working in Vue and web components. The concepts are very similar. 41:22 – Chris: Can someone please give us an example? A literal slideshow example? 41:45 – Guest answers the question. 45:07 – Chris. 45:12 – Guest: It’s a framework that just happens to use web components and stuff to help. 45:54 – Chuck: Yeah they make it easier (Palmer). Yeah there is a crossover with Palmer team and other teams. I can say that b/c I have talked with people from both teams. Anything else? 46:39 – Chuck: Where do they go to learn more? 46:49 – Guest: Check out the Club! And my Twitter! (See links below.) 47:33 – Chuck: I want to shout-out about DevLifts that has $19 a month to help you with physical goals. Or you can get the premium slot! It’s terrific stuff. Sign-up with DEVCHAT code but there is a limited number of slots and there is a deadline, too. Just try it! They have a podcast, too! 49:16 – Aimee: Yeah, I’m on their podcast soon! 49:30 – Chuck: Picks! END – Advertisement: CacheFly! Links: JavaScript React Elixir Ember.js Vue GO jQuery Node.js Puppeteer Cypress Past episode: AiA 115 Past episode: JSJ 120 Vue.js – Slots Using templates and slots – Article Web Components Club GitHub: Pwa – Starter – Kit Progressively Enhanced Toggle Panel Time Ago in under 50 lines of JavaScript GitHub: ebook-boilerplate Chris Ferdinandi’s Go Make Things Site Game Chops CNBC – Trump Article New in Node v10.12 Quotes Archive My Amazon Interview Horror Story DevPal.io Honest Work Relative Paths DevLifts Andy Bell’s Twitter Andy’s Website Sponsors: DevLifts Kendo UI Sentry CacheFly Picks: Aimee Hacker News  -  Programming Quotes My Amazon Interview Horror Story Chris Time Ago in Under 50 Lines of JavaScript E-Book Boiler Plate JSJABBER at gomakethings.com AJ Experimental Drugs Bill My Browers FYI New In Node,10.12 Arcade Attack Charles Getacoderjob.com Self-Publishing School MF CEO podcast Andy Devpay.io Honest.work Relativepath.uk

Panel: Charles Max Wood Aimee Knight Chris Ferdinandi AJ O’Neal Special Guest: Andy Bell In this episode, the panel talks with Andy Bell who is an independent designer and developer who uses React, Vue, and Node. Today, the panelists and the guest talk about the power of progressive enhancements. Check it out! Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement: KENDO UI 0:34 – Chuck: Hi! Our panel is AJ, Aimee, Chris, myself and my new show is coming out in a few weeks, which is called the DevRev! It helps you with developer’s freedom! I am super excited. Our guest is Andy Bell. Introduce yourself, please. 2:00 – Guest: I am an independent designer and developer out in the U.K. 2:17 – Chuck: You wrote things about Vanilla.js. I am foreshadowing a few things and let’s talk about the power and progressive enhancement. 2:43 – The guest gives us definitions of power and progressive enhancements. He describes how it works. 3:10 – Chuck: I’ve heard that people would turn off JavaScript b/c it was security concern and then your progressive enhancement would make it work w/o JavaScript. I am sure there’s more than that? 3:28 – The guest talks about JavaScript, dependencies, among other things. 4:40 – Chuck: Your post did make that very clear I think. I am thinking I don’t even know where to start with this. Are people using the 6th version? How far back or what are we talking about here? 5:09 – Guest: You can go really far back and make it work w/o CSS. 5:49 – Chris: I am a big advocate of progressive enhancement – the pushback I get these days is that there is a divide; between the broadband era and AOL dialup. Are there compelling reasons why progressive enhancements even matter? 6:48 – Guest. 8:05 – Panel: My family lives out in the boonies. I am aware of 50% of American don’t have fast Internet. People don’t have access to fast browsers but I don’t think they are key metric users. 8:47 – Guest: It totally depends on what you need it for. It doesn’t matter if these people are paying or not. 9:31 – Chris: Assuming I have a commute on the trail and it goes through a spotty section. In a scenario that it’s dependent on the JS...are we talking about 2 different things here? 10:14 – Panelist chimes-in. 10:36 – Chris: I can take advantage of it even if I cannot afford a new machine. 10:55 – Panel: Where would this really matter to you? 11:05 – Chris: I do have a nice new laptop. 11:12 – Chuck: I had to hike up to the hill (near the house) to make a call and the connection was really poor (in OK). It’s not the norm but it can happen. 11:37 – Chris: Or how about the All Trails app when I am on the trail. 11:52 – Guest. 12:40 – Chris: I can remember at the time that the desktop sites it was popular to have... Chris: Most of those sites were inaccessible to me. 13:17 – Guest. 13:51 – Chuck: First-world countries will have a good connection and it’s not a big deal. If you are thinking though about your customers and where they live? Is that fair? I am thinking that my customers need to be able to access the podcast – what would you suggest? What are the things that you’d make sure is accessible to them. 14:31 – Guest: I like to pick on the minimum viable experience? I think to read the transcript is important than the audio (MP3). 15:47 – Chuck. 15:52 – Guest: It’s a lot easier with Vue b/c you don’t’ have to set aside rendering. 17:13 – AJ: I am thinking: that there is a way to start developing progressively and probably cheaper and easier to the person who is developing. If it saves us a buck and helps then we take action. 17:49 – Guest: It’s much easier if you start that way and if you enhance the feature itself. 18:38 – AJ: Let me ask: what are the situations where I wouldn’t / shouldn’t worry about progressive enhancements? 18:57 – Guest answers the question. 19:42 – AJ: I want people to feel motivated in a place WHERE to start. Something like a blog needs Java for comments. Hamburger menu is mentioned, too. 20:20 – Guest. 21:05 – Chris: Can we talk about code? 21:16 – Aimee: This is the direction I wanted to go. What do you mean by that – building your applications progressively? Aimee refers to his blog. 21:44 – Guest. 22:13 – Chuck: I use stock overflow! 22:20 – Guest. 22:24 – Chuck: I mean that’s what Chris uses! 22:33 – Guest (continues). 23:42 – Aimee. 23:54 – Chris. 24:09 – Chris 24:16 – Chris: Andy what do you think about that? 24:22 – Guest: Yes, that’s good. 24:35 – Chris: Where it falls apart is the resistance to progressive enhancements that it means that your approach has to be boring? 25:03 – Guest answers the question. The guest mentions modern CSS and modern JavaScript are mentioned along with tooling. 25:50 – Chuck: My issue is that when we talk about this (progressive enhancement) lowest common denominator and some user at some level (slow network) and then they can access it. Then the next level (better access) can access it. I start at the bottom and then go up. Then when they say progressive enhancement I get lost. Should I scrap it and then start over or what? 26:57 – Guest: If it’s feasible do it and then set a timeline up. 27:42 – Chuck: You are saying yes do it a layer at a time – but my question is HOW? What parts can I pair back? Are there guidelines to say: do this first and then how to test? 28:18 – Advertisement – Sentry.io 29:20 – Guest: Think about the user flow. What does the user want to do at THIS point? Do you need to work out the actual dependencies? 30:31 – Chuck: Is there a list of those capabilities somewhere? So these users can use it this way and these users can use it that way? 30:50 – Guest answers the question. 31:03 – Guest: You can pick out the big things. 31:30 – Chuck: I am using this feature in the browser... 31:41 – Guest. 31:46 – Chris: I think this differently than you Andy – I’ve stopped caring if a browser supports something new. I am fine using CSS grid and if your browser doesn’t support it then I don’t have a problem with that. I get hung up on, though if this fails can they still get the content? If they have no access to these – what should they be able to do? Note: “Cutting the Mustard Test” is mentioned. 33:37 – Guest. 33:44 – Chuck: Knowing your users and if it becomes a problem then I will figure it out. 34:00 – Chris: I couldn’t spare the time to make it happen right now b/c I am a one-man shop. 34:20 – Chuck and Chris go back-and-forth. 34:36 –Chris: Check out links below for my product. 34:54 – AJ: A lot of these things are in the name: progressive. 36:20 – Guest. 38:51 – Chris: Say that they haven’t looked at it all before. Do you mind talking about these things and what the heck is a web component? 39:14 – The guest gives us his definition of what a web component is. 40:02 – Chuck: Most recent episode in Angular about web components, but that was a few years ago. See links below for that episode. 40:25 – Aimee. 40:31 – Guest: Yes, it’s a lot like working in Vue and web components. The concepts are very similar. 41:22 – Chris: Can someone please give us an example? A literal slideshow example? 41:45 – Guest answers the question. 45:07 – Chris. 45:12 – Guest: It’s a framework that just happens to use web components and stuff to help. 45:54 – Chuck: Yeah they make it easier (Palmer). Yeah there is a crossover with Palmer team and other teams. I can say that b/c I have talked with people from both teams. Anything else? 46:39 – Chuck: Where do they go to learn more? 46:49 – Guest: Check out the Club! And my Twitter! (See links below.) 47:33 – Chuck: I want to shout-out about DevLifts that has $19 a month to help you with physical goals. Or you can get the premium slot! It’s terrific stuff. Sign-up with DEVCHAT code but there is a limited number of slots and there is a deadline, too. Just try it! They have a podcast, too! 49:16 – Aimee: Yeah, I’m on their podcast soon! 49:30 – Chuck: Picks! END – Advertisement: CacheFly! Links: JavaScript React Elixir Ember.js Vue GO jQuery Node.js Puppeteer Cypress Past episode: AiA 115 Past episode: JSJ 120 Vue.js – Slots Using templates and slots – Article Web Components Club GitHub: Pwa – Starter – Kit Progressively Enhanced Toggle Panel Time Ago in under 50 lines of JavaScript GitHub: ebook-boilerplate Chris Ferdinandi’s Go Make Things Site Game Chops CNBC – Trump Article New in Node v10.12 Quotes Archive My Amazon Interview Horror Story DevPal.io Honest Work Relative Paths DevLifts Andy Bell’s Twitter Andy’s Website Sponsors: DevLifts Kendo UI Sentry CacheFly Picks: Aimee Hacker News  -  Programming Quotes My Amazon Interview Horror Story Chris Time Ago in Under 50 Lines of JavaScript E-Book Boiler Plate JSJABBER at gomakethings.com AJ Experimental Drugs Bill My Browers FYI New In Node,10.12 Arcade Attack Charles Getacoderjob.com Self-Publishing School MF CEO podcast Andy Devpay.io Honest.work Relativepath.uk

Panel: Lucas Reis Charles Max Wood Justin Bennett Special Guest: Soumyajit Pathak In this episode, the panelists talk with Soumyajit Pathak (India) who is a full-stack developer and cybersecurity enthusiast. The panel and the guest talk about design patterns and designing simpler code for clarity and less confusion. Check out today’s episode! Show Topics: 0:00 – Kendo UI 0:31 – Chuck: Our panelists are and our guest is Soumyajit! Introduce yourself please! Are you doing React on the side? 1:02 – Guest: I am a master’s student and I am doing freelancing. 1:42 – Panel. 1:49 – Guest. 2:10 – Chuck: I am feeling very up-to-date. Woo! Universities are teaching this and that and they are focused on theory. The flipside is that they are going to write real code for real systems. 3:10 – Panel: I like your well-written blog posts. You talk about design patterns. 3:50 – Guest: The design patterns at the university had to do with real JavaScript applications. 4:09 – Chuck: I am curious you are talking about the design patterns – how can people from React find/use it? 4:45 – Panel: It depends on your definition of design patterns. 5:35 – Lucas: Maybe you are using one or two here and reading through the design patterns is like going through your toolbox. You only need a screwdriver but you bought the whole toolbox. Get familiar with it and from time to time solve problems and thing: what tool can help me here? It’s clear to me with this toolbox analogy. I understand now – that tool I saw 2 months ago could help me. 7:00 – Guest: I have an interesting story with this about design patterns. Let me share! 7:36 – Justin: It was a similar thing but I wasn’t in JavaScript at the time. I’ve used a lot of C++ code. Design patterns became very useful. I saw it the same way Lucas! 9:23 – Justin continues: How and why to use a certain tool. That’s important. 10:28 – Chuck: Okay this is the default pattern and that’s where we can go for the fallback. Here is the fallback if this doesn’t work here or there. 10:49 – Lucas: This is important to remember. It’s not how to use the tool but it’s why am I using this tool here or there? 11:57 – Justin: It’s so much information in general. People get information overload and they have to just start! One of the challenges we do is that we over-engineer things. Do what you need to know. Look it up but play with it. 12:40 – Lucas: It’s interesting by another blog post that you wrote Soumyajit – and you are using a render prop. You showed a problem and showed the solution. 13:30 – Guest: Yeah I’ve written a lot of blog posts about this topic. 13:48 – Panel: Often times – it’s hard for people just to dive-in. People need to see you solving a problem and it really helps with the learning process. 15:03 – Chuck: What patterns do you find most useful? 15:11 – Panel: Functional components have changed my world! 16:23 – Guest: Around these functional components... 17:17 – Panel: I will go with the patterns that are not useful. Don’t make your code pattern-oriented. This is my favorite pattern now and going back to basics. 18:53 – Panelists go back-and-forth. 19:01 – Lucas. 19:41 – Chuck: You talk about over-engineering things and that’s what I found myself doing sometimes with my new project. When I figure out how to make it simpler I get excited and it’s easy to follow. 20:15 – Panel: We celebrate the person who deleted the most lines of code. 20:28 – Panel: I am going to steal that idea. 21:04 – Guest: I have an interesting story of over-engineering something – let me share! 21:53 – FreshBooks! 22:59 – Panel: Building too much is b/c I don’t have a clear understanding of what I am doing. I get excited about problems. What’s the more simple way / most naïve way possible! 24:36 – Lucas: If you are going to change something you will be changing it in several different places. 25:50 – Chuck: When I heard the concept, all the codes that change together should be together. 26:08 – Lucas comments. 26:53 – Panel: Keeping things contained in one place. We have our presentational component and higher-level component, so you can see it all. 28:28 – Lucas: Different people working on different technologies. 29:15 – Panel: Can I break this down to smaller parts, which makes sense to me? 29:48 – Guest: Looking for keywords will cause a distraction. Finding a balance is good. 30:04 – Chuck: If you have a large rile there could be a smaller component that is there own concern. That feels like the real answer to me. It has a lot less than the length of the file versus... Chuck: If I cannot follow it then I need to keep the concept simple. 30:51 – Lucas: The quantity of lines and the line count – I think it’s better how many indentations you have. 32:43 – Guest. 32:48 – Lucas: Yes, so in the horizontal scrolling you have to keep things in your mind. 33:41 – Panel: There are so many different metrics that you can use and the different line count or different characters. There are more scientific terms that we could plugin here. If you have a lot of these abstract relations that can...write it  34:23 – Chuck: So true. 34:52 – Chuck: I want to move onto a different problem so it’s an attention thing for me too. 35:06 – Panel: We have to get okay with not always writing the best code in that it just needs to do what it needs to do. 35:30 – Chuck. 35:57 – Panel: We write it once – then it falls apart and then we write it again and learn from the process. Learning is the key here – you see where it works and where it doesn’t work well. 36:31 – Panel. 36:47 – Chuck mentions service-side rendering. Chuck: Should we schedule another episode? 37:11 – Panel: I think it’s own episode b/c it’s a complex problem overall. 39:33 – Lucas: Try to find memory leaks in the file components and server-side rendering. Where we have lost a lot of sleep and a higher level of complication. Sometimes it’s necessary. 41:42 – Chuck: Yeah let’s do another episode on this topic. Sounds like there is a lot to dive into this topic. Soumyajit, how do people find you? 42:10 – Guest: Twitter and GitHub! 42:28 – Picks! 42:30 – Advertisement – Get A Coder Job! End – Cache Fly Links: Ruby on Rails Angular JavaScript Elm Phoenix GitHub Get A Coder Job React Patterns on GitHub Calibre Book: Engineering a Safer World Designers’ Secret Source Monster Hunter Guest’s GitHub Guest’s Twitter Sponsors: Get a Coder Job Cache Fly Fresh Books Kendo UI Picks: Justin https://reactpatterns.com/ Calibre App Lucas Engineering a Safer World Soumyajit Blog Muzli - Chrome Extension Charles Monster Hunters International Series Metabase Stripe Work for DevChat TV

Panel: Eric Berry Charles Max Wood Nate Hopkins Special Guest: Paul Smith and Andrew Mason In this episode of Ruby Rogues, the panelists talk with Paul Smith and Andrew Mason! They discuss the platforms Lucky and Crystal. Other topics include: Ruby, Phoenix, Laravel Mix, Thoughtbot, Webpack, compilers, and much more! Check it out! Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement: Sentry.io 1:02 – Chuck: Welcome!! Eric Berry, Nate Hopkins, and myself are the panel - and our special guests are Paul Smith and Andrew Mason. Introduce yourself! 1:41 – Andrew / Guest: I have messed with every type of language, so there’s that! 1:55 – Paul / Guest: I have been here at my current company for 5 years and it’s a consultancy firm. I have been working on Crystal. 2:14 – Chuck: We are lucky to have you! Give people the elevator pitch for Lucky and Crystal? 2:33 – Guest: Let’s talk about Crystal and looks very similar to Ruby! It’s faster and it’s a compound language. It catches a fair amount of things at compile time. The other special features are... 4:17 – Guest mentions compilers. 4:23 – Chuck: Yeah we see this in the typescript. Is it language service – is that what it’s called? Pile and compile and all of this checking are a nice stage for it to run-through. Although the flipside is coding and to not worry about that – that’s nice! 4:56 – Guest: It has changed my approach for sure. 5:43 – Panel: How much slower are you? 5:54 – Guest: I am a lot faster in Crystal than I am in Ruby. 6:51 – Panel: Yeah you have to figure out where you want to save the time. 7:00 – Guest: Someone wrote a blog post and it said...the Rails service is like bolting a shelf on a wall and hoping to hit a stud and it’s not solid. But using Lucky it’s sold although it took a little longer. I think it can be true. You can do bad things with compilers, though. It depends on how you use it. 7:43 – Panelist asks a question. 7:53 – Guest: Every Friday is an investment day. Lucky is my “whatever I want thing.” I am technically getting paid to work on it. 8:33 – Panel: have you had to battle with the framework? 8:51 – Guest: Yes, even though Crystal looks like Ruby (at a high level) if you want to do it well you have to approach it in the Crystal-way. When I came to Crystal I came to it like Rails. The problem with that is I wanted to have type-saved parameters – you can’t do that in Crystal b/c...it doesn’t know when to have a parameter with... 10:48 – Panel: I have heard you talk about Crystal before on another podcast. You talked about templating and I am curious to hear about that. I have used Slim and others and now stick to ERB. 11:25 – Guest: Yes definitely. Let’s back up and talk about WHAT Lucky does! The guest talks about Rails, escaping, and more! 14:37 – Panel: So I imagine Rails partials are slow and expensive to render. I would imagine that this approach with Lucky... 15:00 – Guest: Yes exactly. It’s extremely fast! 15:20 – Panel: How is this for designers? 15:30 – Guest: Yes that was a concern of mine. With Lucky I tried to make it close to a regular HTML structure would look like! 16:32 – Panel: I spun up a Lucky app the other day. It looks like you are using... 16:50 – Guest: I have played around with a bunch of stuff. I landed on Laravel Mix. 18:27 – Panel: Yes webpack is a pain to set up and it’s hard to get it to working the way you want it to work. 18:47 – Guest: Yeah if you want React or whatever it will generate the configuration you need. I don’t like it b/c if you want to... 19:28 – Panel. 19:45 – Guest: I don’t want to maintain it. 19:54 – Panel: There is a Crystal community in Utah. I want to know – are you competing with Amber? Explain the difference between Lucky and Amber? 20:20 – Guest: Yes I did look at Amber but they are approaching it differently than us. The guest talks about the differences between Amber and Lucky. 21:54 – Guest (continues): With Lucky you will have to learn a little bit more but you get more of a pack! 23:23 – Panel: It sounds like Lucky is inspired by Elm – right? 23:32 – Guest: Yeah, I think so. The guest dives into this topic of Elm and Lucky! 24:35 – Panel: How much does the types feel like it’s getting in your way? How explicit is it? When I came to Ruby it was a breath of fresh air. I am a bit reluctant to go back to those days. 25:25 – Guest: I think Lucky does a happy medium. It doesn’t infer instant variables. I like the... 26:28 – Panel: I learned Java very early on in my computer science career. 27:00 – Guest. 27:10 – Panel: “Crystal...it’s not Java!” That should be your slogan! 27:20 – Fresh Books! 28:25 – Panel: A lot of people are moving to Elixir community. Do you see people moving from Ruby to Lucky and Crystal? How does Lucky compare to Phoenix? 28:55 – Guest: Good question! 29:10 – The guest talks about bamboo – see links below!! 29: 29 – Guest: Sure Ruby is fast but sometimes you spend more time on it then you would want to. 31:08 – Guest: Blessing and curse that Crystal looks so much like Ruby. That’s what I thought at first: why would I want to learn this if it’s so similar to Ruby. BUT there are so many benefits to Crystal vs. Ruby. 31:48 – Guest talks about Lucky catching the bugs. 32:00 – Panel: I wonder if that happened with Groovy and Rails? 32:21 – They go back-and-forth. 32:28 – Panel: Thoughtbot has always been on the forefront of Ruby. Can you talk about Thoughbot please? (See links below for Thoughtbot!) 33:15 – Guest: Great question. It’s hard to tell b/c there are different offices. I would say Ruby is our main thing. Ruby is the most mature thing that we use in-terms of web development. Guest: Actually – Rails is pretty nice! 34:54 – Panel: We went through the same thing with CodeFund! I wrote it initially in Python and then I wrote it in Elixir and it became so complex. Now we are moving everything back to Ruby and it’s been a fantastic decision.  36:30 – Chuck: You are talking about the sustainability of open source but there are benefits throughout the company right? There are tons of tangible benefits of doing it, especially when it’s your Friday schedule. You can level-up on things that could help you. I know a lot of companies cannot afford it if they are trying to hustle. 37:42 – Guest: It’s totally not charity through Thoughtbot. It’s a huge help for hiring new people. I know they are okay with letting me work on Lucky b/c it’s bringing on new developers and a good marketing tool, and finally recruiting! 39:07 – Chuck: Yeah, I have been talking about developer freedom and that’s what I am addressing through the DevRev show! It’s my new podcast show. We talk with Chris on Elixir Mix. It lends that credibility if they need to save our bacon. 40:02 – Panel: What’s your goal with Lucky? 40:11 – Guest: I would love to get it to the point where Thoughtbot could start a project and default to Lucky! Start a project and not resting every gem and be confident with launching it. 41:36 – Panelist asks a question. 41:45 – Guest: It’s not 1.0 and that means that the API will break with every release. I think that’s good to tweak stuff but that turns companies off, though. 42:40 – Chuck: Another thing that helps with adoption is Twitter used Rails to build their initial version. This blah, blah company uses important stuff and they are using Crystal and whatnot then that’s good! It sounds like you are waiting for social proof. 43:23 – Guest: Is the next Twitter going to even know about Crystal? 43:40 – Chuck: It literally only takes one enthusiast! 43:52 – Guest. 44:11 – Demo of Flickr Search is mentioned here! 45:13 – Panel: Is there something out there that you could POINT someone to? 45:27 – Guest: Not, yet. I built a small site with it! It is opensource and you can look at it. I want to show people a good example of what Lucky can do! 45:57 – Panel: You have very good docs and I am a visual learner. When I learned Rails I learned on my own and not through school. 46:20 – Panelist asks a question. 46:48 – Guest: What a huge advantage Lucky has through the Thoughtbot platform! Now that platform is kind of dried up. In terms of getting people excited it needs that killer app and they can see that it’s fast and killer! I think it takes a lot of time and finding time to do it so that’s tricky. It’s changing a lot when there is so much change. Getting Lucky to a 1.0 state so people can do videos and make apps. The hard part thing is that Lucky has to be 1.0 when Crystal is 1.0. The Lucky community is great b/c it’s encouraging and to respond in a very kind way. When you are starting something that’s new can be scary. We try to help out as much as we can and we are open and kind about it. 49:13 – Panel: “Paul is nice so Lucky is nice!” 49:19 – Guest: Everyone is super kind. It had to be short and simple. We in the dev community are very lucky – usually great pay/benefits and more w/o a college degree. What another field can you do that?! 51:00 – Panel: Great message and you need to push that! 51:10 – Panel: You were on a past podcast and you talked about how you are donating each month! Panel: Opensource maintainers are getting burned out and you want to support that. 51:40 – Guest: I think opensource sustainability what others need to do to make it sustainable. If you have the means to give we can be apart of that, too. It would be nice if companies did that. If it helps Crystal I am happy. 52:17 – Panel: I have a question about Crystal. 52:52 – Guest: Ruby right now you can do C sections right now. 53:01 – Panel. 53:10 – Guest: I don’t think so – it may but I would guess that you could do it but I don’t know how easy it would be. Note: Rust and C are mentioned. 53:37 – Panel comments. 53:46 – Guest: One thing I would say is to check-out the Lucky docs. We are happy to help! 54:10 – Panel: This is a favorite episode of mine! Both of today’s guests have been my favorite! 54:23 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! End – Cache Fly! Links: Get a Coder Job Course The DevRev Podcast Show DevChat TV Ruby Elixir Ruby on Rails Angular Cypress Vue React Jest.io Mocha.js Webpacker-Cli Amber Lucky The Lucky Philosophy The Bike Shed Thoughtbot CodeFund Lucky: Ruby on Rails to Lucky on Crystal... “Crystal is not Ruby Part 1” GitHub: Bamboo Ex_Machina Dialyxir Crystal Mastery Samsung T5 Carbon Copy Cloner iMazing Awesome-Lucky Paul Smith GitHub Sponsors: Sentry CacheFly Fresh Books Picks: Nate Samsung SSD Carbon Copy Cloner Application Eric iMazing HEIC Converter Charles Mastodon Andrew Upcase by Thoughtbot Awesome Lucky Paul Tailwind CSS Phoenix Live HTML Chris McCord Elixir Mix Episodes with Chris McCord

Panel: Eric Berry Charles Max Wood Nate Hopkins Special Guest: Paul Smith and Andrew Mason In this episode of Ruby Rogues, the panelists talk with Paul Smith and Andrew Mason! They discuss the platforms Lucky and Crystal. Other topics include: Ruby, Phoenix, Laravel Mix, Thoughtbot, Webpack, compilers, and much more! Check it out! Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement: Sentry.io 1:02 – Chuck: Welcome!! Eric Berry, Nate Hopkins, and myself are the panel - and our special guests are Paul Smith and Andrew Mason. Introduce yourself! 1:41 – Andrew / Guest: I have messed with every type of language, so there’s that! 1:55 – Paul / Guest: I have been here at my current company for 5 years and it’s a consultancy firm. I have been working on Crystal. 2:14 – Chuck: We are lucky to have you! Give people the elevator pitch for Lucky and Crystal? 2:33 – Guest: Let’s talk about Crystal and looks very similar to Ruby! It’s faster and it’s a compound language. It catches a fair amount of things at compile time. The other special features are... 4:17 – Guest mentions compilers. 4:23 – Chuck: Yeah we see this in the typescript. Is it language service – is that what it’s called? Pile and compile and all of this checking are a nice stage for it to run-through. Although the flipside is coding and to not worry about that – that’s nice! 4:56 – Guest: It has changed my approach for sure. 5:43 – Panel: How much slower are you? 5:54 – Guest: I am a lot faster in Crystal than I am in Ruby. 6:51 – Panel: Yeah you have to figure out where you want to save the time. 7:00 – Guest: Someone wrote a blog post and it said...the Rails service is like bolting a shelf on a wall and hoping to hit a stud and it’s not solid. But using Lucky it’s sold although it took a little longer. I think it can be true. You can do bad things with compilers, though. It depends on how you use it. 7:43 – Panelist asks a question. 7:53 – Guest: Every Friday is an investment day. Lucky is my “whatever I want thing.” I am technically getting paid to work on it. 8:33 – Panel: have you had to battle with the framework? 8:51 – Guest: Yes, even though Crystal looks like Ruby (at a high level) if you want to do it well you have to approach it in the Crystal-way. When I came to Crystal I came to it like Rails. The problem with that is I wanted to have type-saved parameters – you can’t do that in Crystal b/c...it doesn’t know when to have a parameter with... 10:48 – Panel: I have heard you talk about Crystal before on another podcast. You talked about templating and I am curious to hear about that. I have used Slim and others and now stick to ERB. 11:25 – Guest: Yes definitely. Let’s back up and talk about WHAT Lucky does! The guest talks about Rails, escaping, and more! 14:37 – Panel: So I imagine Rails partials are slow and expensive to render. I would imagine that this approach with Lucky... 15:00 – Guest: Yes exactly. It’s extremely fast! 15:20 – Panel: How is this for designers? 15:30 – Guest: Yes that was a concern of mine. With Lucky I tried to make it close to a regular HTML structure would look like! 16:32 – Panel: I spun up a Lucky app the other day. It looks like you are using... 16:50 – Guest: I have played around with a bunch of stuff. I landed on Laravel Mix. 18:27 – Panel: Yes webpack is a pain to set up and it’s hard to get it to working the way you want it to work. 18:47 – Guest: Yeah if you want React or whatever it will generate the configuration you need. I don’t like it b/c if you want to... 19:28 – Panel. 19:45 – Guest: I don’t want to maintain it. 19:54 – Panel: There is a Crystal community in Utah. I want to know – are you competing with Amber? Explain the difference between Lucky and Amber? 20:20 – Guest: Yes I did look at Amber but they are approaching it differently than us. The guest talks about the differences between Amber and Lucky. 21:54 – Guest (continues): With Lucky you will have to learn a little bit more but you get more of a pack! 23:23 – Panel: It sounds like Lucky is inspired by Elm – right? 23:32 – Guest: Yeah, I think so. The guest dives into this topic of Elm and Lucky! 24:35 – Panel: How much does the types feel like it’s getting in your way? How explicit is it? When I came to Ruby it was a breath of fresh air. I am a bit reluctant to go back to those days. 25:25 – Guest: I think Lucky does a happy medium. It doesn’t infer instant variables. I like the... 26:28 – Panel: I learned Java very early on in my computer science career. 27:00 – Guest. 27:10 – Panel: “Crystal...it’s not Java!” That should be your slogan! 27:20 – Fresh Books! 28:25 – Panel: A lot of people are moving to Elixir community. Do you see people moving from Ruby to Lucky and Crystal? How does Lucky compare to Phoenix? 28:55 – Guest: Good question! 29:10 – The guest talks about bamboo – see links below!! 29: 29 – Guest: Sure Ruby is fast but sometimes you spend more time on it then you would want to. 31:08 – Guest: Blessing and curse that Crystal looks so much like Ruby. That’s what I thought at first: why would I want to learn this if it’s so similar to Ruby. BUT there are so many benefits to Crystal vs. Ruby. 31:48 – Guest talks about Lucky catching the bugs. 32:00 – Panel: I wonder if that happened with Groovy and Rails? 32:21 – They go back-and-forth. 32:28 – Panel: Thoughtbot has always been on the forefront of Ruby. Can you talk about Thoughbot please? (See links below for Thoughtbot!) 33:15 – Guest: Great question. It’s hard to tell b/c there are different offices. I would say Ruby is our main thing. Ruby is the most mature thing that we use in-terms of web development. Guest: Actually – Rails is pretty nice! 34:54 – Panel: We went through the same thing with CodeFund! I wrote it initially in Python and then I wrote it in Elixir and it became so complex. Now we are moving everything back to Ruby and it’s been a fantastic decision.  36:30 – Chuck: You are talking about the sustainability of open source but there are benefits throughout the company right? There are tons of tangible benefits of doing it, especially when it’s your Friday schedule. You can level-up on things that could help you. I know a lot of companies cannot afford it if they are trying to hustle. 37:42 – Guest: It’s totally not charity through Thoughtbot. It’s a huge help for hiring new people. I know they are okay with letting me work on Lucky b/c it’s bringing on new developers and a good marketing tool, and finally recruiting! 39:07 – Chuck: Yeah, I have been talking about developer freedom and that’s what I am addressing through the DevRev show! It’s my new podcast show. We talk with Chris on Elixir Mix. It lends that credibility if they need to save our bacon. 40:02 – Panel: What’s your goal with Lucky? 40:11 – Guest: I would love to get it to the point where Thoughtbot could start a project and default to Lucky! Start a project and not resting every gem and be confident with launching it. 41:36 – Panelist asks a question. 41:45 – Guest: It’s not 1.0 and that means that the API will break with every release. I think that’s good to tweak stuff but that turns companies off, though. 42:40 – Chuck: Another thing that helps with adoption is Twitter used Rails to build their initial version. This blah, blah company uses important stuff and they are using Crystal and whatnot then that’s good! It sounds like you are waiting for social proof. 43:23 – Guest: Is the next Twitter going to even know about Crystal? 43:40 – Chuck: It literally only takes one enthusiast! 43:52 – Guest. 44:11 – Demo of Flickr Search is mentioned here! 45:13 – Panel: Is there something out there that you could POINT someone to? 45:27 – Guest: Not, yet. I built a small site with it! It is opensource and you can look at it. I want to show people a good example of what Lucky can do! 45:57 – Panel: You have very good docs and I am a visual learner. When I learned Rails I learned on my own and not through school. 46:20 – Panelist asks a question. 46:48 – Guest: What a huge advantage Lucky has through the Thoughtbot platform! Now that platform is kind of dried up. In terms of getting people excited it needs that killer app and they can see that it’s fast and killer! I think it takes a lot of time and finding time to do it so that’s tricky. It’s changing a lot when there is so much change. Getting Lucky to a 1.0 state so people can do videos and make apps. The hard part thing is that Lucky has to be 1.0 when Crystal is 1.0. The Lucky community is great b/c it’s encouraging and to respond in a very kind way. When you are starting something that’s new can be scary. We try to help out as much as we can and we are open and kind about it. 49:13 – Panel: “Paul is nice so Lucky is nice!” 49:19 – Guest: Everyone is super kind. It had to be short and simple. We in the dev community are very lucky – usually great pay/benefits and more w/o a college degree. What another field can you do that?! 51:00 – Panel: Great message and you need to push that! 51:10 – Panel: You were on a past podcast and you talked about how you are donating each month! Panel: Opensource maintainers are getting burned out and you want to support that. 51:40 – Guest: I think opensource sustainability what others need to do to make it sustainable. If you have the means to give we can be apart of that, too. It would be nice if companies did that. If it helps Crystal I am happy. 52:17 – Panel: I have a question about Crystal. 52:52 – Guest: Ruby right now you can do C sections right now. 53:01 – Panel. 53:10 – Guest: I don’t think so – it may but I would guess that you could do it but I don’t know how easy it would be. Note: Rust and C are mentioned. 53:37 – Panel comments. 53:46 – Guest: One thing I would say is to check-out the Lucky docs. We are happy to help! 54:10 – Panel: This is a favorite episode of mine! Both of today’s guests have been my favorite! 54:23 – Advertisement: Get A Coder Job! End – Cache Fly! Links: Get a Coder Job Course The DevRev Podcast Show DevChat TV Ruby Elixir Ruby on Rails Angular Cypress Vue React Jest.io Mocha.js Webpacker-Cli Amber Lucky The Lucky Philosophy The Bike Shed Thoughtbot CodeFund Lucky: Ruby on Rails to Lucky on Crystal... “Crystal is not Ruby Part 1” GitHub: Bamboo Ex_Machina Dialyxir Crystal Mastery Samsung T5 Carbon Copy Cloner iMazing Awesome-Lucky Paul Smith GitHub Sponsors: Sentry CacheFly Fresh Books Picks: Nate Samsung SSD Carbon Copy Cloner Application Eric iMazing HEIC Converter Charles Mastodon Andrew Upcase by Thoughtbot Awesome Lucky Paul Tailwind CSS Phoenix Live HTML Chris McCord Elixir Mix Episodes with Chris McCord

Panel: Charles Max Wood Aimee Knight Chris Ferdinandi AJ O’Neal Special Guest: Andy Bell In this episode, the panel talks with Andy Bell who is an independent designer and developer who uses React, Vue, and Node. Today, the panelists and the guest talk about the power of progressive enhancements. Check it out! Show Topics: 0:00 – Advertisement: KENDO UI 0:34 – Chuck: Hi! Our panel is AJ, Aimee, Chris, myself and my new show is coming out in a few weeks, which is called the DevRev! It helps you with developer’s freedom! I am super excited. Our guest is Andy Bell. Introduce yourself, please. 2:00 – Guest: I am an independent designer and developer out in the U.K. 2:17 – Chuck: You wrote things about Vanilla.js. I am foreshadowing a few things and let’s talk about the power and progressive enhancement. 2:43 – The guest gives us definitions of power and progressive enhancements. He describes how it works. 3:10 – Chuck: I’ve heard that people would turn off JavaScript b/c it was security concern and then your progressive enhancement would make it work w/o JavaScript. I am sure there’s more than that? 3:28 – The guest talks about JavaScript, dependencies, among other things. 4:40 – Chuck: Your post did make that very clear I think. I am thinking I don’t even know where to start with this. Are people using the 6th version? How far back or what are we talking about here? 5:09 – Guest: You can go really far back and make it work w/o CSS. 5:49 – Chris: I am a big advocate of progressive enhancement – the pushback I get these days is that there is a divide; between the broadband era and AOL dialup. Are there compelling reasons why progressive enhancements even matter? 6:48 – Guest. 8:05 – Panel: My family lives out in the boonies. I am aware of 50% of American don’t have fast Internet. People don’t have access to fast browsers but I don’t think they are key metric users. 8:47 – Guest: It totally depends on what you need it for. It doesn’t matter if these people are paying or not. 9:31 – Chris: Assuming I have a commute on the trail and it goes through a spotty section. In a scenario that it’s dependent on the JS...are we talking about 2 different things here? 10:14 – Panelist chimes-in. 10:36 – Chris: I can take advantage of it even if I cannot afford a new machine. 10:55 – Panel: Where would this really matter to you? 11:05 – Chris: I do have a nice new laptop. 11:12 – Chuck: I had to hike up to the hill (near the house) to make a call and the connection was really poor (in OK). It’s not the norm but it can happen. 11:37 – Chris: Or how about the All Trails app when I am on the trail. 11:52 – Guest. 12:40 – Chris: I can remember at the time that the desktop sites it was popular to have... Chris: Most of those sites were inaccessible to me. 13:17 – Guest. 13:51 – Chuck: First-world countries will have a good connection and it’s not a big deal. If you are thinking though about your customers and where they live? Is that fair? I am thinking that my customers need to be able to access the podcast – what would you suggest? What are the things that you’d make sure is accessible to them. 14:31 – Guest: I like to pick on the minimum viable experience? I think to read the transcript is important than the audio (MP3). 15:47 – Chuck. 15:52 – Guest: It’s a lot easier with Vue b/c you don’t’ have to set aside rendering. 17:13 – AJ: I am thinking: that there is a way to start developing progressively and probably cheaper and easier to the person who is developing. If it saves us a buck and helps then we take action. 17:49 – Guest: It’s much easier if you start that way and if you enhance the feature itself. 18:38 – AJ: Let me ask: what are the situations where I wouldn’t / shouldn’t worry about progressive enhancements? 18:57 – Guest answers the question. 19:42 – AJ: I want people to feel motivated in a place WHERE to start. Something like a blog needs Java for comments. Hamburger menu is mentioned, too. 20:20 – Guest. 21:05 – Chris: Can we talk about code? 21:16 – Aimee: This is the direction I wanted to go. What do you mean by that – building your applications progressively? Aimee refers to his blog. 21:44 – Guest. 22:13 – Chuck: I use stock overflow! 22:20 – Guest. 22:24 – Chuck: I mean that’s what Chris uses! 22:33 – Guest (continues). 23:42 – Aimee. 23:54 – Chris. 24:09 – Chris 24:16 – Chris: Andy what do you think about that? 24:22 – Guest: Yes, that’s good. 24:35 – Chris: Where it falls apart is the resistance to progressive enhancements that it means that your approach has to be boring? 25:03 – Guest answers the question. The guest mentions modern CSS and modern JavaScript are mentioned along with tooling. 25:50 – Chuck: My issue is that when we talk about this (progressive enhancement) lowest common denominator and some user at some level (slow network) and then they can access it. Then the next level (better access) can access it. I start at the bottom and then go up. Then when they say progressive enhancement I get lost. Should I scrap it and then start over or what? 26:57 – Guest: If it’s feasible do it and then set a timeline up. 27:42 – Chuck: You are saying yes do it a layer at a time – but my question is HOW? What parts can I pair back? Are there guidelines to say: do this first and then how to test? 28:18 – Advertisement – Sentry.io 29:20 – Guest: Think about the user flow. What does the user want to do at THIS point? Do you need to work out the actual dependencies? 30:31 – Chuck: Is there a list of those capabilities somewhere? So these users can use it this way and these users can use it that way? 30:50 – Guest answers the question. 31:03 – Guest: You can pick out the big things. 31:30 – Chuck: I am using this feature in the browser... 31:41 – Guest. 31:46 – Chris: I think this differently than you Andy – I’ve stopped caring if a browser supports something new. I am fine using CSS grid and if your browser doesn’t support it then I don’t have a problem with that. I get hung up on, though if this fails can they still get the content? If they have no access to these – what should they be able to do? Note: “Cutting the Mustard Test” is mentioned. 33:37 – Guest. 33:44 – Chuck: Knowing your users and if it becomes a problem then I will figure it out. 34:00 – Chris: I couldn’t spare the time to make it happen right now b/c I am a one-man shop. 34:20 – Chuck and Chris go back-and-forth. 34:36 –Chris: Check out links below for my product. 34:54 – AJ: A lot of these things are in the name: progressive. 36:20 – Guest. 38:51 – Chris: Say that they haven’t looked at it all before. Do you mind talking about these things and what the heck is a web component? 39:14 – The guest gives us his definition of what a web component is. 40:02 – Chuck: Most recent episode in Angular about web components, but that was a few years ago. See links below for that episode. 40:25 – Aimee. 40:31 – Guest: Yes, it’s a lot like working in Vue and web components. The concepts are very similar. 41:22 – Chris: Can someone please give us an example? A literal slideshow example? 41:45 – Guest answers the question. 45:07 – Chris. 45:12 – Guest: It’s a framework that just happens to use web components and stuff to help. 45:54 – Chuck: Yeah they make it easier (Palmer). Yeah there is a crossover with Palmer team and other teams. I can say that b/c I have talked with people from both teams. Anything else? 46:39 – Chuck: Where do they go to learn more? 46:49 – Guest: Check out the Club! And my Twitter! (See links below.) 47:33 – Chuck: I want to shout-out about DevLifts that has $19 a month to help you with physical goals. Or you can get the premium slot! It’s terrific stuff. Sign-up with DEVCHAT code but there is a limited number of slots and there is a deadline, too. Just try it! They have a podcast, too! 49:16 – Aimee: Yeah, I’m on their podcast soon! 49:30 – Chuck: Picks! END – Advertisement: CacheFly! Links: JavaScript React Elixir Ember.js Vue GO jQuery Node.js Puppeteer Cypress Past episode: AiA 115 Past episode: JSJ 120 Vue.js – Slots Using templates and slots – Article Web Components Club GitHub: Pwa – Starter – Kit Progressively Enhanced Toggle Panel Time Ago in under 50 lines of JavaScript GitHub: ebook-boilerplate Chris Ferdinandi’s Go Make Things Site Game Chops CNBC – Trump Article New in Node v10.12 Quotes Archive My Amazon Interview Horror Story DevPal.io Honest Work Relative Paths DevLifts Andy Bell’s Twitter Andy’s Website Sponsors: DevLifts Kendo UI Sentry CacheFly Picks: Aimee Hacker News  -  Programming Quotes My Amazon Interview Horror Story Chris Time Ago in Under 50 Lines of JavaScript E-Book Boiler Plate JSJABBER at gomakethings.com AJ Experimental Drugs Bill My Browers FYI New In Node,10.12 Arcade Attack Charles Getacoderjob.com Self-Publishing School MF CEO podcast Andy Devpay.io Honest.work Relativepath.uk