Podcasts about Apis

David Burkett, Cloud Security Researcher at Corelight, is back on Defender Fridays this week to discuss thinking in pipelines for AI agents.As a dedicated and highly experienced Cloud Detection Engineer and Security Architect, David has the privilege of working at a Fortune 50 Company where he leverages his extensive background in cybersecurity to protect digital assets. With a proven track record of building three different Cyber Security Operations Centers for multiple MSSP/MDR providers.David's expertise is backed by a strong set of GIAC certifications, including GCTI, GCIA, GPYC, and GCED... among others. He's proud to have been part of a large overall security team that won the prestigious James S. Cogswell Outstanding Industrial Security Achievement Award from the Defense Counterintelligence and Security Agency. Our security operations center was recognized as being among the top 1% of cybersecurity programs for all cleared facilities.In addition to his hands-on experience, David has consulted for over 40 Fortune 500 Companies and Large Federal Organizations, helping them manage their SOAR platforms and playbooks. As a strong believer in knowledge sharing and collaboration, he's also an active contributor to the open-source detection security project known as Sigma. Learn more at https://corelight.com/Register for Live SessionsJoin us every Friday at 10:30am PT for live, interactive discussions with industry experts. Whether you're a seasoned professional or just curious about the field, these sessions offer an engaging dialogue between our guests, hosts, and you – our audience.Register here: https://limacharlie.io/defender-fridaysSubscribe to our YouTube channel and hit the notification bell to never miss a live session or catch up on past episodes!Sponsored by LimaCharlieThis episode is brought to you by LimaCharlie, a cloud-native SecOps platform where AI agents operate security infrastructure directly. Founded in 2018, LimaCharlie provides complete API coverage across detection, response, automation, and telemetry, with multi-tenant architecture designed for MSSPs and MDR providers managing thousands of unique client environments.Why LimaCharlie?Transparency: Complete visibility into every action and decision. No black boxes, no vendor lock-in.Scalability: Security operations that scale like infrastructure, not like procurement cycles. Move at cloud speed.Unopinionated Design: Integrate the tools you need, not just those contracts allow. Build security on your terms.Agentic SecOps Workspace (ASW): AI agents that operate alongside your team with observable, auditable actions through the same APIs human analysts use.Security Primitives: Composable building blocks that endure as tools come and go. Build once, evolve continuously.Try the Agentic SecOps Workspace free: https://limacharlie.ioLearn more: https://docs.limacharlie.io/Follow LimaCharlieSign up for free: https://limacharlie.io/LinkedIn: / limacharlieio X: https://x.com/limacharlieioCommunity Discourse: https://community.limacharlie.com/Host: Maxime Lamothe-Brassard - CEO / Co-founder at LimaCharlie

Tempo Mainnet is live, but this episode isn't really about just another chain launch. It's about a bigger claim: that AI agents are about to need native money, and that the internet may need a new payment layer to support them. Georgios Konstantopoulos and Brendan Ryan join Bankless to unpack why Tempo launched with agentic payments front and center, what MPP actually is, how it compares to x402, and why they think machine-to-machine commerce could reshape everything from paid APIs to the business model of the web itself. ---

  Peggy Smedley and Patrick Scarpati, director of construction technology and innovation, ABC (Associated Builders and Contractors), talk about the pressures contractors are facing and how technology is becoming central to that shift. He says technology is accelerating at varying levels throughout the industry. They also discuss: · How we can use technology to keep up with the speed of change. · The state of integration and APIs (application programming interfaces). · If technology will play a part in upskilling and reskilling. https://www.abc.org

BONUS: Guardrails Over Processes—How to Scale Teams Without Killing Creativity What actually slows down tech teams—lack of talent, or lack of ownership? In this episode, Prashanth Tondapu shares lessons from leading through global-scale failures, scaling from a small team to a 100-person company, and discovering why guardrails beat rigid processes when it comes to building teams that own outcomes and execute with discipline. Diffusion of Accountability: When Everyone Is Responsible, Nobody Is "Crisis is not the problem. Crisis is the one that uncovers the problem that has always existed."   Early in his career, Prashanth witnessed a large-scale failure at a major technology company—not because the team lacked talent, but because accountability had become diffused. When too many people are responsible for something, it translates to nobody being responsible. The team was brilliant individually, but there was no clear demarcation of who owned what outcome. On good days, everything worked. But when things went wrong, there was no single person who could no longer delegate accountability to someone else. In this segment, we also refer to the concept from Extreme Ownership by Jocko Willink. Prashant argues for: outcome can only come with 100% emotional commitment to a particular problem, and when five people share that commitment, each carries only 20%. That's where breakdowns happen. The Leadership Design Problem: From Computers to People "I was a developer who imagined that humans are also going to be as predictable as computers. Until 6 or 7 people, it works well because you can be everywhere. But as soon as we increased above 7, I was not able to be everywhere."   Prashanth's journey as a founder mirrors what many tech leaders experience at scale. Starting Innostax at 27 as a developer with no management experience, he initially treated people like predictable systems. Below seven people, it worked—he could be the hero founder, the catch-all. But beyond that threshold, he had to learn delegation, which meant learning to trust. First came the people-dependent phase, then the process-oriented phase with SOPs (Standard Operating Procedures) for everything—even how APIs should look. The SOPs made the team fast at execution, but their clients noticed something troubling: "Your guys do not even ask any questions." The rigid processes had suppressed the very creativity and critical thinking they needed. That feedback became the catalyst for the next evolution: becoming a people-first company. Guardrails vs. Processes: Freeing Creativity Within Structure "If something goes wrong, our guardrail is: we will just ask you one question—what was your intent behind doing this?"   Prashanth draws a sharp distinction between processes and guardrails. Processes tell you exactly what to do and how to do it—they create predictable execution but kill creativity. Guardrails define the boundaries within which people have freedom to be creative and solve problems their own way. At Innostax, guardrails take practical forms:   Time-on-task guardrails: If a task takes longer than expected, ask for help—don't rabbit-hole into it for three days Don't be a hero: When friction appears with a client or a problem, escalate early rather than trying to solve everything alone The intent review: When something goes wrong, instead of punishment, they ask three questions—was the intent right, was the approach right, and what was the outcome? If intent and approach were right but it still failed, that's the company's problem, not the individual's   This framework creates psychological safety while maintaining accountability. People know they won't be penalized for honest mistakes made with good intent, which means they surface problems early rather than hiding them. Vision Elements and the People-First Company "The outcome is not just what is expected, but outcome also consists of what is not expected. People come out in so many creative, great ways that they end up surprising you."   The shift to a people-first company meant replacing rigid SOPs with what Prashanth calls "vision elements"—broader directional guidance like "we are working for the client, we need to give the best for the client in the resources that we have." This gives teams a larger sandbox to work in while guardrails prevent them from going too far off course.  The daily rhythm includes team leads reviewing work summaries—not to micromanage, but to catch misalignment early and offer support. Prashanth emphasizes that guardrails must be created with emotional intelligence and detachment. If you create guardrails assuming you're also part of the problem, they'll be biased and ineffective. That's why he considers emotional intelligence the prerequisite skill for any leader designing team structures. The Books That Changed Everything "Whenever I was reading through the fixed mindset guy, it was like it was describing me. And that actually changed everything."   Prashanth recommends two foundational books for leaders building ownership-driven teams. First, Mindset by Carol Dweck—a book that cracked his own fixed mindset as a confident developer who thought he knew everything. Reading about the fixed mindset felt like reading his own biography, and that uncomfortable recognition opened him to listening more, seeking exposure to experts, and believing there were perspectives he hadn't encountered yet. Second, Emotional Intelligence by Daniel Goleman—because without mastering emotional intelligence, everything you hear feels personal, clouding your judgment and making you too close to the problem to design effective solutions for your team.   Self-reflection Question: Are you building guardrails that give your team freedom to be creative within clear boundaries, or are you still writing processes that tell people exactly what to do—and in the process, suppressing the very thinking you hired them for?   About Prashanth Tondapu Prashanth Tondapu is Founder and CEO of Innostax and a veteran technology leader. He's led teams through high-stakes global incidents at McAfee and scaled disciplined delivery organizations worldwide. His work focuses on ownership, accountability, and designing teams for predictable, sustainable execution as complexity grows.   You can link with Prashanth Tondapu on LinkedIn.

How do you secure a modern business when identities no longer belong only to employees, but also to partners, machines, applications, and increasingly AI agents? In this episode of Tech Talks Daily, I sat down with Paul Zolfaghari, President of Saviynt, to unpack why identity security has moved from a background IT function to one of the defining challenges facing modern enterprises. Over the past decade, the identity problem has expanded far beyond the traditional office worker logging into internal systems. Today's organizations must manage access across a vast digital ecosystem that includes contractors, suppliers, customers, APIs, machines, and now autonomous AI agents. Paul explains how this shift has fundamentally changed the way security leaders think about identity governance. The challenge is no longer limited to preventing unauthorized access from outside attackers. Instead, companies must manage the complex question of who, or what, should have access to specific data, systems, and processes at any given moment. When thousands of employees, partners, and automated systems interact across multiple cloud platforms, the complexity grows rapidly. We also explore how the rise of non-human identities is reshaping the security landscape. Machines, software services, and AI agents now operate alongside human employees inside enterprise environments. In many cases, these digital identities are already beginning to outnumber people. As AI agents gain the ability to gather information, adapt to context, and take actions autonomously, organizations must rethink how access permissions are granted, monitored, and governed. Another theme that emerged during our conversation is the idea that identity security is not only about protection. While it clearly sits within the cybersecurity domain, Paul argues that identity governance also acts as a business enabler. When the right people and systems can access the right information at the right time, organizations operate more efficiently and collaborate more effectively across complex supply chains and partner ecosystems. We also discussed findings from Saviynt's CISO AI Risk Report, which highlights a growing concern among security leaders. AI adoption is accelerating rapidly, often moving faster than the governance frameworks designed to manage it. This creates a challenge for organizations trying to adopt AI responsibly while maintaining visibility and control over how these technologies interact with enterprise systems. With more than 600 enterprise customers and a recent $700 million growth investment backing its expansion, Saviynt is operating in a market that many investors now view as one of the defining layers of modern digital infrastructure. Identity, in many ways, is becoming the control plane for how businesses operate in an AI driven world. Looking ahead, Paul believes organizations must begin preparing for a future where digital identities dramatically outnumber human employees. That shift will require new approaches to governance, visibility, and control. So as AI adoption accelerates and businesses continue expanding across cloud platforms and digital ecosystems, one question becomes impossible to ignore. Is identity security ready to serve as the foundation for how organizations operate in the next decade? Useful Links Connect with Paul Zolfaghari Check out the Saviynt Website Follow on Facebook, LinkedIn, and X

The episode details a structural shift in the technology landscape: AI models are increasingly being treated as commodity components, with operational control and procurement decisions moving to the orchestration layer. This change is illustrated by government procurement actions, specifically the Pentagon's designation of Anthropic's Claude model as a supply chain risk and the subsequent shift in model eligibility requirements. Policymaking authorities are now directly dictating which models can be used within national security supply chains, reconfiguring where power, liability, and decision-making sit. The primary development is the Department of Defense's recent disqualification of Anthropic's Claude from eligible contracts, leading to both contract cancellations and legal disputes. Anthropic has responded with lawsuits contesting its supply chain risk designation, while Microsoft has sought court intervention to block the Pentagon's ban, asserting this would prevent disruption to military AI workflows. The State Department has also moved its internal chatbot infrastructure from Claude Sonic 4.5 to OpenAI's GPT-4.1, aligning with the President's compliance directive. Supporting developments include Google's deployment of Gemini-powered AI agents within the Department of Defense, and the emergence of tools such as Perplexity's APIs, which aim to simplify workflow construction across multiple models. The episode emphasizes that model swaps by agencies are not merely technical updates, but policy-driven control decisions. These actions underscore a climate in which model eligibility and operational portability are shaped by compliance and procurement authorities rather than technical teams or vendors. Operational implications for MSPs and IT providers are profound. Single-model dependencies now present measurable contract risk, especially for clients in defense, healthcare, or finance sectors. Swapping models requires revalidation of prompts, outputs, and integrations, rather than simple API repointing. Providers are advised to audit workflows for reliance on any one model, prioritize abstraction layers that enable smooth transitions, and position model-agnostic architectures as proactive risk management. In a landscape defined by commodity models and policy-driven eligibility, model diversification now represents continuity planning rather than an engineering preference. Three things to know today: 00:00 Pentagon vs. Anthropic 02:19 Beyond the Model 05:07 Why Do We Care?  Supported by:  ScalePad, Small Biz Thoughts Community

Infobip Launches AgentOS to Bring AI Agents to CPaaS Platforms, Podcast, Infobip, a global leader in CPaaS (Communications Platform as a Service), is using the rise of generative AI to expand what programmable communications platforms can do. The company announced that AgentOS will officially launch on April 1, with customers already beginning to onboard ahead of the formal release “AgentOS is our agent platform that will officially launch on April first. It's not a joke—it's very serious.” At the recent Enterprise Connect 2026 event in Las Vegas, Moshe Beauford, reporting for Technology Reseller News, spoke with Krešo Žmak of Infobip about the company's latest innovation: AgentOS, a new platform designed to bring AI-powered agents into the programmable communications ecosystem. Infobip, a global leader in CPaaS (Communications Platform as a Service), is using the rise of generative AI to expand what programmable communications platforms can do. The company announced that AgentOS will officially launch on April 1, with customers already beginning to onboard ahead of the formal release. According to Žmak, AI has been part of Infobip's strategy for years, long before the current wave of generative AI technologies. “We started working with AI about eight years ago,” Žmak explained. “Back then it was natural language processing and machine learning. Now with generative AI we can move much further and enable agents that can actually participate in conversations.” AgentOS is designed to help companies deploy AI-driven agents across multiple communications channels including messaging, voice, and digital engagement platforms. The platform builds on Infobip's CPaaS infrastructure, allowing developers and enterprises to integrate AI capabilities directly into customer interactions. For telecom providers, developers, and enterprises attending Enterprise Connect, the announcement reflects a broader shift underway in the communications industry. CPaaS platforms, traditionally associated with APIs for messaging and voice, are rapidly evolving into intelligent communication layers powered by AI. By embedding AI agents directly into programmable communications workflows, Infobip aims to help organizations automate interactions, streamline customer engagement, and build more intelligent communication systems. More information about Infobip can be found at https://www.infobip.com/.

AI Agent Hacks McKinsey Chatbot in 2 Hours, NPM Phantom Raven, Router Malware & Trojaned AI Models This episode covers how researchers at CodeWall used an autonomous AI security agent to gain read/write access to McKinsey's internal chatbot Lilli database in about two hours by chaining exposed APIs and an SQL injection, potentially exposing 46.5 million chats, 728,000 files, 57,000 accounts, and 95 system prompts, with McKinsey saying the issues were fixed and no unauthorized access was found. It also reports on the Phantom Raven supply-chain campaign that published 88 malicious NPM packages using a runtime-downloaded payload to steal developer system data like SSH keys and host details. A study warns that 83% of 800 million compromised passwords still meet complexity rules, highlighting credential-stuffing risk and the need for breach checks and MFA. The show notes 14,000+ routers infected with persistent malware often requiring factory resets plus hardening, and discusses Trojan backdoors embedded in AI models that trigger misbehavior under specific inputs, calling for new AI security testing and validation. Cybersecurity Today  would like to thank Meter for their support in bringing you this podcast. Meter delivers a complete networking stack, wired, wireless and cellular in one integrated solution that's built for performance and scale.  You can find them at Meter.com/cst 00:00 Sponsor Meter Intro 00:20 Headlines And Welcome 00:55 AI Agent Hacks McKinsey Bot 03:44 Phantom Raven NPM Malware 05:55 Strong Passwords Still Leaked 07:55 Router Malware That Persists 09:36 Trojan Backdoors In AI Models 12:01 Call For AI Backdoor Research 12:30 Sponsor Meter Outro 13:13 Sign Off

New Podcast with Aave founder Stani Kulechov just dropped: Aave is at a turning point - will the Aave Will Win proposal lead to innovation or chaos? Aave is navigating a pivotal moment with the recent "Aave will win" proposal. This initiative aims to redirect 100% of protocol revenue back to the Aave DAO, a move that many in the community have embraced. But with any major change comes scrutiny.Critics are questioning the governance structure, suggesting that Aave Labs may have too much influence. Stani Kulechov addresses these concerns, clarifying that no votes from Aave Labs swayed the outcome. Stani also discussed the 'Hub and Spoke' architecture of Aave V4, explaining how it will solve liquidity bootstrapping for developers and pave the way for Real World Assets (RWAs) like solar farms and GPUs. It's clear that Aave is focused on growth and innovation. But will it be enough to keep Aave competitive in the evolving DeFi landscape?Big thanks to our sponsors;NEXONexo is a premier digital assets wealth platform that helps clients build, manage, and preserve their wealth through advanced interest-generating products, crypto-backed credit, advanced trading tools, and 24/7 client care. Get started at nexo.com/defiant MERCURYOYour Web3 product deserves solid payment infrastructure. Global on/off-ramps, custom APIs, and DeFi connectivity trusted by the biggest names in crypto: mercuryo.ioROCKET POOLRocket Pool is Ethereum's decentralised liquid staking protocol. Node operators can join with just 4 ETH, or liquid stakers can hold rETH and automatically earn staking rewards. rocketpool.net

APIs and AI are transforming how treasurers manage money and data. From instant payouts and live balances to AI-assisted onboarding, the pay-off is showing up in faster cycles, cleaner integrations, and better decisions.

Are you ready to feel the heartbeat of what's next in HR technology? In this episode, Oz Khan from ADP Ventures pulls back the curtain on how AI is transforming workflows, building trust, and reshaping the very fabric of work. This isn't just talk — it's a revolution happening right now, and you need to hear it. In this episode: The evolution from AI assistance to autonomous workflow execution Why HR is shifting from co-pilot to control tower — and what that means The critical importance of trust, compliance, and risk management in AI adoption How enterprise complexity and trust influence product development and investment The overlooked power of judgment — why human experience remains priceless The strategic focus of investors and founders navigating AI's wild waters Real-world examples: ADP's scale, the impact of startups like Naya and Emma The role of people, process, and tech — and how they coexist in solving real HR problems Timestamps: 00:00 - The pulse of HR innovation — what's coming next 02:10 - How ADP's labs culture sparked real growth 05:10 - Oz shares a fun, surprising fact about himself 06:10 - The seismic shift from AI tools to workflow automators 08:25 - How stability and proven value shape HR tech adoption 09:42 - The co-pilot becomes the control tower — deep dive 11:00 - APIs, data connectivity, and solving enterprise complexity 12:44 - Navigating compliance, risk, and the law in HR AI 13:51 - Why generative AI isn't ready to replace humans yet 15:54 - The real challenge of trust: transparency, training, guardrails 17:46 - The importance of judgment and experience in AI-driven decision making 20:40 - Building confidence with high-fidelity, deterministic AI solutions 23:38 - The last mile decision — where human judgment still rules 26:11 - The dangers of overhyping AI's potential — and the truth 29:52 - Education, skills, and the demographic shifts AI will bring 33:53 - The art of flexible, configurable HR tech — how founders navigate ‘craft' 37:16 - From $1M to scale — what it takes to grow AI-driven HR solutions 42:56 - Real-world impact — ADP's investments in Naya, Emma, and beyond 43:38 - The human side: solving emotional and organizational problems, not just tech 44:22 - The future is OpenClaw and beyond — what's next in AI bots Resources & Links: Naya — Transforming benefits decisions at scale Emma AI — Agentic platform powering workflows ADP Ventures — Driving innovation in HR tech Data Cloud Stanford Research — Insights on entry-level hiring and labor shifts ADP — Join the leaders in HR and payroll solutions Connect with Oz Khan: LinkedIn Twitter This isn't just a conversation — it's a call to action. Whether you're in HR, investing, or building the future, you've got to understand the truth about AI's power, limits, and the human judgment that will always be king. Don't get left behind. Your next big move is waiting — listen now, and be part of the revolution!

Send a textReady for a reality check on AI security? We invited Cisco cybersecurity expert Katherine McNamara to dig into where large language models actually break: from prompt injection and over-permissioned plugins to reckless “vibe-coded” apps that leak IDs, photos, and entire backends. The stories are real, the stakes are high, and the fixes are concrete. We trace how AI sprawl mirrors the worst of early IoT—weak defaults, poor isolation, and a stampede to integrate models into billing, HR, and support without guardrails—only this time the blast radius includes your customer data and your legal exposure.We talk through the human factor first. Written policies won't stop someone from pasting a pen test report into a public chatbot. DLP helps, but hybrid work and BYOD stretch defenses thin. Then we move to the core threat model: public and private models are targets; datasets can be poisoned; plugins often ship with admin-level scopes; and a clever prompt can trick an LLM into disclosing chat histories, creating new accounts, or modifying orders. Courts have already treated chatbots as company representatives, binding businesses to their outputs—another reason to treat every integration like an untrusted user with strict least privilege.It's not all doom. Used well, AI gives security operations superpowers: correlating signals across dozens of tools, reducing alert fatigue, and surfacing lateral movement. The path forward is discipline, not denial. Fence models on the network. Prefer read-only to write. Gate plugins behind narrowly scoped APIs. Vet datasets for backdoors. Red-team prompts as seriously as you pen test code. And educate stakeholders with live demos so they see why these controls matter. We also unpack the shaky economics—GPU costs, rising consumer fatigue, hype-fueled projects with little ROI—and why that pressure can erode privacy if teams aren't vigilant.If you're building with LLMs or trying to rein them in, this conversation gives you a practical map: what to allow, what to block, and how to make AI useful without turning your stack into an attack surface. Subscribe, share with a teammate who ships integrations, and drop a review with the one guardrail you'll implement this quarter.Connect with our Guest:https://x.com/kmcnam1https://www.linkedin.com/in/katherinermcnamara/Purchase Chris and Tim's book on AWS Cloud Networking: https://www.amazon.com/Certified-Advanced-Networking-Certification-certification/dp/1835080839/ Check out the Monthly Cloud Networking Newshttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1fkBWCGwXDUX9OfZ9_MvSVup8tJJzJeqrauaE6VPT2b0/Visit our website and subscribe: https://www.cables2clouds.com/Follow us on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/cables2clouds.comFollow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@cables2clouds/Follow us on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@cables2cloudsMerch Store: https://store.cables2clouds.com/Join the Discord Study group: https://artofneteng.com/iaatj

How should software engineering evolve for the age of AI? As organizations rush to weave GenAI and agentic AI into every product and workflow, engineering teams face a new reality: you can't scale AI without redesigning how software gets built.   In this episode, Gartner experts Manjunath Bhat, Akis Sklavounakis and Shameen Pillai break down what that redesign actually looks like. They'll explore the team structures that help scale GenAI to repeatable delivery, the platform patterns that reduce cognitive load and drive value, and the API strategies that AI implementation can't function without.   You'll learn: Why GenAI efforts fail without the right team structures How platform engineering reduces complexity and accelerates delivery Why APIs are the backbone of GenAI and agentic AI The five‑dimension API maturity model and where to focus first The tools and next steps to scale AI safely and effectively   Dig deeper: Learn more with Gartner for Software Engineering Leaders See why Gartner is the world authority on AI Become a client to try AskGartner

Join Kyle, Nader, Vibhu, and swyx live at NVIDIA GTC next week!Now that AIE Europe tix are ~sold out, our attention turns to Miami and World's Fair!The definitive AI Accelerator chip company has more than 10xed this AI Summer:And is now a $4.4 trillion megacorp… that is somehow still moving like a startup. We are blessed to have a unique relationship with our first ever NVIDIA guests: Kyle Kranen who gave a great inference keynote at the first World's Fair and is one of the leading architects of NVIDIA Dynamo (a Datacenter scale inference framework supporting SGLang, TRT-LLM, vLLM), and Nader Khalil, a friend of swyx from our days in Celo in The Arena, who has been drawing developers at GTC since before they were even a glimmer in the eye of NVIDIA:Nader discusses how NVIDIA Brev has drastically reduced the barriers to entry for developers to get a top of the line GPU up and running, and Kyle explains NVIDIA Dynamo as a data center scale inference engine that optimizes serving by scaling out, leveraging techniques like prefill/decode disaggregation, scheduling, and Kubernetes-based orchestration, framed around cost, latency, and quality tradeoffs. We also dive into Jensen's “SOL” (Speed of Light) first-principles urgency concept, long-context limits and model/hardware co-design, internal model APIs (https://build.nvidia.com), and upcoming Dynamo and agent sessions at GTC.Full Video pod on YouTubeTimestamps00:00 Agent Security Basics00:39 Podcast Welcome and Guests07:19 Acquisition and DevEx Shift13:48 SOL Culture and Dynamo Setup27:38 Why Scale Out Wins29:02 Scale Up Limits Explained30:24 From Laptop to Multi Node33:07 Cost Quality Latency Tradeoffs38:42 Disaggregation Prefill vs Decode41:05 Kubernetes Scaling with Grove43:20 Context Length and Co Design57:34 Security Meets Agents58:01 Agent Permissions Model59:10 Build Nvidia Inference Gateway01:01:52 Hackathons And Autonomy Dreams01:10:26 Local GPUs And Scaling Inference01:15:31 Long Running Agents And SF ReflectionsTranscriptAgent Security BasicsNader: Agents can do three things. They can access your files, they can access the internet, and then now they can write custom code and execute it. You literally only let an agent do two of those three things. If you can access your files and you can write custom code, you don't want internet access because that's one to see full vulnerability, right?If you have access to internet and your file system, you should know the full scope of what that agent's capable of doing. Otherwise, now we can get injected or something that can happen. And so that's a lot of what we've been thinking about is like, you know, how do we both enable this because it's clearly the future.But then also, you know, what, what are these enforcement points that we can start to like protect?swyx: All right.Podcast Welcome and Guestsswyx: Welcome to the Lean Space podcast in the Chromo studio. Welcome to all the guests here. Uh, we are back with our guest host Viu. Welcome. Good to have you back. And our friends, uh, Netter and Kyle from Nvidia. Welcome.Kyle: Yeah, thanks for having us.swyx: Yeah, thank you. Actually, I don't even know your titles.Uh, I know you're like architect something of Dynamo.Kyle: Yeah. I, I'm one of the engineering leaders [00:01:00] and a architects of Dynamo.swyx: And you're director of something and developers, developer tech.Nader: Yeah.swyx: You're the developers, developers, developers guy at nvidia,Nader: open source agent marketing, brev,swyx: and likeNader: Devrel tools and stuff.swyx: Yeah. BeenNader: the focus.swyx: And we're, we're kind of recording this ahead of Nvidia, GTC, which is coming to town, uh, again, uh, or taking over town, uh, which, uh, which we'll all be at. Um, and we'll talk a little bit about your sessions and stuff. Yeah.Nader: We're super excited for it.GTC Booth Stunt Storiesswyx: One of my favorite memories for Nader, like you always do like marketing stunts and like while you were at Rev, you like had this surfboard that you like, went down to GTC with and like, NA Nvidia apparently, like did so much that they bought you.Like what, what was that like? What was that?Nader: Yeah. Yeah, we, we, um. Our logo was a chaka. We, we, uh, we were always just kind of like trying to keep true to who we were. I think, you know, some stuff, startups, you're like trying to pretend that you're a bigger, more mature company than you are. And it was actually Evan Conrad from SF Compute who was just like, you guys are like previousswyx: guest.Yeah.Nader: Amazing. Oh, really? Amazing. Yeah. He was just like, guys, you're two dudes in the room. Why are you [00:02:00] pretending that you're not? Uh, and so then we were like, okay, let's make the logo a shaka. We brought surfboards to our booth to GTC and the energy was great. Yeah. Some palm trees too. They,Kyle: they actually poked out over like the, the walls so you could, you could see the bread booth.Oh, that's so funny. AndNader: no one else,Kyle: just from very far away.Nader: Oh, so you remember it backKyle: then? Yeah I remember it pre-acquisition. I was like, oh, those guys look cool,Nader: dude. That makes sense. ‘cause uh, we, so we signed up really last minute, and so we had the last booth. It was all the way in the corner. And so I was, I was worried that no one was gonna come.So that's why we had like the palm trees. We really came in with the surfboards. We even had one of our investors bring her dog and then she was just like walking the dog around to try to like, bring energy towards our booth. Yeah.swyx: Steph.Kyle: Yeah. Yeah, she's the best,swyx: you know, as a conference organizer, I love that.Right? Like, it's like everyone who sponsors a conference comes, does their booth. They're like, we are changing the future of ai or something, some generic b******t and like, no, like actually try to stand out, make it fun, right? And people still remember it after three years.Nader: Yeah. Yeah. You know what's so funny?I'll, I'll send, I'll give you this clip if you wanna, if you wanna add it [00:03:00] in, but, uh, my wife was at the time fiance, she was in medical school and she came to help us. ‘cause it was like a big moment for us. And so we, we bought this cricket, it's like a vinyl, like a vinyl, uh, printer. ‘cause like, how else are we gonna label the surfboard?So, we got a surfboard, luckily was able to purchase that on the company card. We got a cricket and it was just like fine tuning for enterprises or something like that, that we put on the. On the surfboard and it's 1:00 AM the day before we go to GTC. She's helping me put these like vinyl stickers on.And she goes, you son of, she's like, if you pull this off, you son of a b***h. And so, uh, right. Pretty much after the acquisition, I stitched that with the mag music acquisition. I sent it to our family group chat. Ohswyx: Yeah. No, well, she, she made a good choice there. Was that like basically the origin story for Launchable is that we, it was, and maybe we should explain what Brev is andNader: Yeah.Yeah. Uh, I mean, brev is just, it's a developer tool that makes it really easy to get a GPU. So we connect a bunch of different GPU sources. So the basics of it is like, how quickly can we SSH you into a G, into a GPU and whenever we would talk to users, they wanted A GPU. They wanted an A 100. And if you go to like any cloud [00:04:00] provisioning page, usually it's like three pages of forms or in the forms somewhere there's a dropdown.And in the dropdown there's some weird code that you know to translate to an A 100. And I remember just thinking like. Every time someone says they want an A 100, like the piece of text that they're telling me that they want is like, stuffed away in the corner. Yeah. And so we were like, what if the biggest piece of text was what the user's asking for?And so when you go to Brev, it's just big GPU chips with the type that you want withswyx: beautiful animations that you worked on pre, like pre you can, like, now you can just prompt it. But back in the day. Yeah. Yeah. Those were handcraft, handcrafted artisanal code.Nader: Yeah. I was actually really proud of that because, uh, it was an, i I made it in Figma.Yeah. And then I found, I was like really struggling to figure out how to turn it from like Figma to react. So what it actually is, is just an SVG and I, I have all the styles and so when you change the chip, whether it's like active or not it changes the SVG code and that somehow like renders like, looks like it's animating, but it, we just had the transition slow, but it's just like the, a JavaScript function to change the like underlying SVG.Yeah. And that was how I ended up like figuring out how to move it from from Figma. But yeah, that's Art Artisan. [00:05:00]Kyle: Speaking of marketing stunts though, he actually used those SVGs. Or kind of use those SVGs to make these cards.Nader: Oh yeah. LikeKyle: a GPU gift card Yes. That he handed out everywhere. That was actually my first impression of thatNader: one.Yeah,swyx: yeah, yeah.Nader: Yeah.swyx: I think I still have one of them.Nader: They look great.Kyle: Yeah.Nader: I have a ton of them still actually in our garage, which just, they don't have labels. We should honestly like bring, bring them back. But, um, I found this old printing press here, actually just around the corner on Ven ness. And it's a third generation San Francisco shop.And so I come in an excited startup founder trying to like, and they just have this crazy old machinery and I'm in awe. ‘cause the the whole building is so physical. Like you're seeing these machines, they have like pedals to like move these saws and whatever. I don't know what this machinery is, but I saw all three generations.Like there's like the grandpa, the father and the son, and the son was like, around my age. Well,swyx: it's like a holy, holy trinity.Nader: It's funny because we, so I just took the same SVG and we just like printed it and it's foil printing, so they make a a, a mold. That's like an inverse of like the A 100 and then they put the foil on it [00:06:00] and then they press it into the paper.And I remember once we got them, he was like, Hey, don't forget about us. You know, I guess like early Apple and Cisco's first business cards were all made there. And so he was like, yeah, we, we get like the startup businesses but then as they mature, they kind of go somewhere else. And so I actually, I think we were talking with marketing about like using them for some, we should go back and make some cards.swyx: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I remember, you know, as a very, very small breadth investor, I was like, why are we spending time like, doing these like stunts for GPUs? Like, you know, I think like as a, you know, typical like cloud hard hardware person, you go into an AWS you pick like T five X xl, whatever, and it's just like from a list and you look at the specs like, why animate this GP?And, and I, I do think like it just shows the level of care that goes throughout birth and Yeah. And now, and also the, and,Nader: and Nvidia. I think that's what the, the thing that struck me most when we first came in was like the amount of passion that everyone has. Like, I think, um, you know, you talk to, you talk to Kyle, you talk to, like, every VP that I've met at Nvidia goes so close to the metal.Like, I remember it was almost a year ago, and like my VP asked me, he's like, Hey, [00:07:00] what's cursor? And like, are you using it? And if so, why? Surprised at this, and he downloaded Cursor and he was asking me to help him like, use it. And I thought that was, uh, or like, just show him what he, you know, why we were using it.And so, the amount of care that I think everyone has and the passion, appreciate, passion and appreciation for the moment. Right. This is a very unique time. So it's really cool to see everyone really like, uh, appreciate that.swyx: Yeah.Acquisition and DevEx Shiftswyx: One thing I wanted to do before we move over to sort of like research topics and, uh, the, the stuff that Kyle's working on is just tell the story of the acquisition, right?Like, not many people have been, been through an acquisition with Nvidia. What's it like? Uh, what, yeah, just anything you'd like to say.Nader: It's a crazy experience. I think, uh, you know, we were the thing that was the most exciting for us was. Our goal was just to make it easier for developers.We wanted to find access to GPUs, make it easier to do that. And then all, oh, actually your question about launchable. So launchable was just make one click exper, like one click deploys for any software on top of the GPU. Mm-hmm. And so what we really liked about Nvidia was that it felt like we just got a lot more resources to do all of that.I think, uh, you [00:08:00] know, NVIDIA's goal is to make things as easy for developers as possible. So there was a really nice like synergy there. I think that, you know, when it comes to like an acquisition, I think the amount that the soul of the products align, I think is gonna be. Is going speak to the success of the acquisition.Yeah. And so it in many ways feels like we're home. This is a really great outcome for us. Like we you know, I love brev.nvidia.com. Like you should, you should use it's, it's theKyle: front page for GPUs.Nader: Yeah. Yeah. If you want GP views,Kyle: you go there, getswyx: it there, and it's like internally is growing very quickly.I, I don't remember You said some stats there.Nader: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, uh, I, I wish I had the exact numbers, but like internally, externally, it's been growing really quickly. We've been working with a bunch of partners with a bunch of different customers and ISVs, if you have a solution that you want someone that runs on the GPU and you want people to use it quickly, we can bundle it up, uh, in a launchable and make it a one click run.If you're doing things and you want just like a sandbox or something to run on, right. Like open claw. Huge moment. Super exciting. Our, uh, and we'll talk into it more, but. You know, internally, people wanna run this, and you, we know we have to be really careful from the security implications. Do we let this run on the corporate network?Security's guidance was, Hey, [00:09:00] run this on breath, it's in, you know, it's, it's, it's a vm, it's sitting in the cloud, it's off the corporate network. It's isolated. And so that's been our stance internally and externally about how to even run something like open call while we figure out how to run these things securely.But yeah,swyx: I think there's also like, you almost like we're the right team at the right time when Nvidia is starting to invest a lot more in developer experience or whatever you call it. Yeah. Uh, UX or I don't know what you call it, like software. Like obviously NVIDIA is always invested in software, but like, there's like, this is like a different audience.Yeah. It's aNader: widerKyle: developer base.swyx: Yeah. Right.Nader: Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's funny, it's like, it's not, uh,swyx: so like, what, what is it called internally? What, what is this that people should be aware that is going on there?Nader: Uh, what, like developer experienceswyx: or, yeah, yeah. Is it's called just developer experience or is there like a broader strategy hereNader: in Nvidia?Um, Nvidia always wants to make a good developer experience. The thing is and a lot of the technology is just really complicated. Like, it's not, it's uh, you know, I think, um. The thing that's been really growing or the AI's growing is having a huge moment, not [00:10:00] because like, let's say data scientists in 2018, were quiet then and are much louder now.The pie is com, right? There's a whole bunch of new audiences. My mom's wondering what she's doing. My sister's learned, like taught herself how to code. Like the, um, you know, I, I actually think just generally AI's a big equalizer and you're seeing a more like technologically literate society, I guess.Like everyone's, everyone's learning how to code. Uh, there isn't really an excuse for that. And so building a good UX means that you really understand who your end user is. And when your end user becomes such a wide, uh, variety of people, then you have to almost like reinvent the practice, right? Yeah. You haveKyle: to, and actually build more developer ux, right?Because the, there are tiers of developer base that were added. You know, the, the hackers that are building on top of open claw, right? For example, have never used gpu. They don't know what kuda is. They, they, they just want to run something.Nader: Yeah.Kyle: You need new UX that is not just. Hey, you know, how do you program something in Cuda and run it?And then, and then we built, you know, like when Deep Learning was getting big, we built, we built Torch and, and, but so recently the amount of like [00:11:00] layers that are added to that developer stack has just exploded because AI has become ubiquitous. Everyone's using it in different ways. Yeah. It'sNader: moving fast in every direction.Vertical, horizontal.Vibhu: Yeah. You guys, you even take it down to hardware, like the DGX Spark, you know, it's, it's basically the same system as just throwing it up on big GPU cluster.Nader: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's amazing. Blackwell.swyx: Yeah. Uh, we saw the preview at the last year's GTC and that was one of the better performing, uh, videos so far, and video coverage so far.Awesome. This will beat it. Um,Nader: that wasswyx: actually, we have fingersNader: crossed. Yeah.DGX Spark and Remote AccessNader: Even when Grace Blackwell or when, um, uh, DGX Spark was first coming out getting to be involved in that from the beginning of the developer experience. And it just comes back to what youswyx: were involved.Nader: Yeah. St. St.swyx: Mars.Nader: Yeah. Yeah. I mean from, it was just like, I, I got an email, we just got thrown into the loop and suddenly yeah, I, it was actually really funny ‘cause I'm still pretty fresh from the acquisition and I'm, I'm getting an email from a bunch of the engineering VPs about like, the new hardware, GPU chip, like we're, or not chip, but just GPU system that we're putting out.And I'm like, okay, cool. Matters. Now involved with this for the ux, I'm like. What am I gonna do [00:12:00] here? So, I remember the first meeting, I was just like kind of quiet as I was hearing engineering VPs talk about what this box could be, what it could do, how we should use it. And I remember, uh, one of the first ideas that people were idea was like, oh, the first thing that it was like, I think a quote was like, the first thing someone's gonna wanna do with this is get two of them and run a Kubernetes cluster on top of them.And I was like, oh, I think I know why I'm here. I was like, the first thing we're doing is easy. SSH into the machine. And then, and you know, just kind of like scoping it down of like, once you can do that every, you, like the person who wants to run a Kubernetes cluster onto Sparks has a higher propensity for pain, then, then you know someone who buys it and wants to run open Claw right now, right?If you can make sure that that's as effortless as possible, then the rest becomes easy. So there's a tool called Nvidia Sync. It just makes the SSH connection really simple. So, you know, if you think about it like. If you have a Mac, uh, or a PC or whatever, if you have a laptop and you buy this GPU and you want to use it, you should be able to use it like it's A-A-G-P-U in the cloud, right?Um, but there's all this friction of like, how do you actually get into that? That's part of [00:13:00] Revs value proposition is just, you know, there's a CLI that wraps SSH and makes it simple. And so our goal is just get you into that machine really easily. And one thing we just launched at CES, it's in, it's still in like early access.We're ironing out some kinks, but it should be ready by GTC. You can register your spark on Brev. And so now if youswyx: like remote managed yeah, local hardware. Single pane of glass. Yeah. Yeah. Because Brev can already manage other clouds anyway, right?Vibhu: Yeah, yeah. And you use the spark on Brev as well, right?Nader: Yeah. But yeah, exactly. So, so you, you, so you, you set it up at home you can run the command on it, and then it gets it's essentially it'll appear in your Brev account, and then you can take your laptop to a Starbucks or to a cafe, and you'll continue to use your, you can continue use your spark just like any other cloud node on Brev.Yeah. Yeah. And it's just like a pre-provisioned centerswyx: in yourNader: home. Yeah, exactly.swyx: Yeah. Yeah.Vibhu: Tiny little data center.Nader: Tiny little, the size ofVibhu: your phone.SOL Culture and Dynamo Setupswyx: One more thing before we move on to Kyle. Just have so many Jensen stories and I just love, love mining Jensen stories. Uh, my favorite so far is SOL. Uh, what is, yeah, what is S-O-L-S-O-LNader: is actually, i, I think [00:14:00] of all the lessons I've learned, that one's definitely my favorite.Kyle: It'll always stick with you.Nader: Yeah. Yeah. I, you know, in your startup, everything's existential, right? Like we've, we've run out of money. We were like, on the risk of, of losing payroll, we've had to contract our team because we l ran outta money. And so like, um, because of that you're really always forcing yourself to I to like understand the root cause of everything.If you get a date, if you get a timeline, you know exactly why that date or timeline is there. You're, you're pushing every boundary and like, you're not just say, you're not just accepting like a, a no. Just because. And so as you start to introduce more layers, as you start to become a much larger organization, SOL is is essentially like what is the physics, right?The speed of light moves at a certain speed. So if flight's moving some slower, then you know something's in the way. So before trying to like layer reality back in of like, why can't this be delivered at some date? Let's just understand the physics. What is the theoretical limit to like, uh, how fast this can go?And then start to tell me why. ‘cause otherwise people will start telling you why something can't be done. But actually I think any great leader's goal is just to create urgency. Yeah. [00:15:00] There's an infiniteKyle: create compelling events, right?Nader: Yeah.Kyle: Yeah. So l is a term video is used to instigate a compelling event.You say this is done. How do we get there? What is the minimum? As much as necessary, as little as possible thing that it takes for us to get exactly here and. It helps you just break through a bunch of noise.swyx: Yeah.Kyle: Instantly.swyx: One thing I'm unclear about is, can only Jensen use the SOL card? Like, oh, no, no, no.Not everyone get the b******t out because obviously it's Jensen, but like, can someone else be like, no, likeKyle: frontline engineers use it.Nader: Yeah. Every, I think it's not so much about like, get the b******t out. It's like, it's like, give me the root understanding, right? Like, if you tell me something takes three weeks, it like, well, what's the first principles?Yeah, the first principles. It's like, what's the, what? Like why is it three weeks? What is the actual yeah. What's the actual limit of why this is gonna take three weeks? If you're gonna, if you, if let's say you wanted to buy a new computer and someone told you it's gonna be here in five days, what's the SOL?Well, like the SOL is like, I could walk into a Best Buy and pick it up for you. Right? So then anything that's like beyond that is, and is that practical? Is that how we're gonna, you know, let's say give everyone in the [00:16:00] company a laptop, like obviously not. So then like that's the SOL and then it's like, okay, well if we have to get more than 10, suddenly there might be some, right?And so now we can kind of piece the reality back.swyx: So, so this is the. Paul Graham do things that don't scale. Yeah. And this is also the, what people would now call behi agency. Yeah.Kyle: It's actually really interesting because there's a, there's a second hardware angle to SOL that like doesn't come up for all the org sol is used like culturally at aswyx: media for everything.I'm also mining for like, I think that can be annoying sometimes. And like someone keeps going IOO you and you're like, guys, like we have to be stable. We have to, we to f*****g plan. Yeah.Kyle: It's an interesting balance.Nader: Yeah. I encounter that with like, actually just with, with Alec, right? ‘cause we, we have a new conference so we need to launch, we have, we have goals of what we wanna launch by, uh, by the conference and like, yeah.At the end of the day, where isswyx: this GTC?Nader: Um, well this is like, so we, I mean we did it for CES, we did for GT CDC before that we're doing it for GTC San Jose. So I mean, like every, you know, we have a new moment. Um, and we want to launch something. Yeah. And we want to do so at SOL and that does mean that some, there's some level of prioritization that needs [00:17:00] to happen.And so it, it is difficult, right? I think, um, you have to be careful with what you're pushing. You know, stability is important and that should be factored into S-O-L-S-O-L isn't just like, build everything and let it break, you know, that, that's part of the conversation. So as you're laying, layering in all the details, one of them might be, Hey, we could build this, but then it's not gonna be stable for X, y, z reasons.And so that was like, one of our conversations for CES was, you know, hey, like we, we can get this into early access registering your spark with brev. But there are a lot of things that we need to do in order to feel really comfortable from a security perspective, right? There's a lot of networking involved before we deliver that to users.So it's like, okay. Let's get this to a point where we can at least let people experiment with it. We had it in a booth, we had it in Jensen's keynote, and then let's go iron out all the networking kinks. And that's not easy. And so, uh, that can come later. And so that was the way that we layered that back in.Yeah. ButKyle: It's not really about saying like, you don't have to do the, the maintenance or operational work. It's more about saying, you know, it's kind of like [00:18:00] highlights how progress is incremental, right? Like, what is the minimum thing that we can get to. And then there's SOL for like every component after that.But there's the SOL to get you, get you to the, the starting line. And that, that's usually how it's asked. Yeah. On the other side, you know, like SOL came out of like hardware at Nvidia. Right. So SOL is like literally if we ran the accelerator or the GPU with like at basically full speed with like no other constraints, like how FAST would be able to make a program go.swyx: Yeah. Yeah. Right.Kyle: Soswyx: in, in training that like, you know, then you work back to like some percentage of like MFU for example.Kyle: Yeah, that's a, that's a great example. So like, there's an, there's an S-O-L-M-F-U, and then there's like, you know, what's practically achievable.swyx: Cool. Should we move on to sort of, uh, Kyle's side?Uh, Kyle, you're coming more from the data science world. And, uh, I, I mean I always, whenever, whenever I meet someone who's done working in tabular stuff, graph neural networks, time series, these are basically when I go to new reps, I go to ICML, I walk the back halls. There's always like a small group of graph people.Yes. Absolute small group of tabular people. [00:19:00] And like, there's no one there. And like, it's very like, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, no, like it's, it's important interesting work if you care about solving the problems that they solve.Kyle: Yeah.swyx: But everyone else is just LMS all the time.Kyle: Yeah. I mean it's like, it's like the black hole, right?Has the event horizon reached this yet in nerves? Um,swyx: but like, you know, those are, those are transformers too. Yeah. And, and those are also like interesting things. Anyway, uh, I just wanted to spend a little bit of time on, on those, that background before we go into Dynamo, uh, proper.Kyle: Yeah, sure. I took a different path to Nvidia than that, or I joined six years ago, seven, if you count, when I was an intern.So I joined Nvidia, like right outta college. And the first thing I jumped into was not what I'd done in, during internship, which was like, you know, like some stuff for autonomous vehicles, like heavyweight object detection. I jumped into like, you know, something, I'm like, recommenders, this is popular. Andswyx: yeah, he did RexiKyle: as well.Yeah, Rexi. Yeah. I mean that, that was the taboo data at the time, right? You have tables of like, audience qualities and item qualities, and you're trying to figure out like which member of [00:20:00] the audience matches which item or, or more practically which item matches which member of the audience. And at the time, really it was like we were trying to enable.Uh, recommender, which had historically been like a little bit of a CP based workflow into something that like, ran really well in GPUs. And it's since been done. Like there are a bunch of libraries for Axis that run on GPUs. Uh, the common models like Deeplearning recommendation model, which came outta meta and the wide and deep model, which was used or was released by Google were very accelerated by GPUs using, you know, the fast HBM on the chips, especially to do, you know, vector lookups.But it was very interesting at the time and super, super relevant because like we were starting to get like. This explosion of feeds and things that required rec recommenders to just actively be on all the time. And sort of transitioned that a little bit towards graph neural networks when I discovered them because I was like, okay, you can actually use graphical neural networks to represent like, relationships between people, items, concepts, and that, that interested me.So I jumped into that at [00:21:00] Nvidia and, and got really involved for like two-ish years.swyx: Yeah. Uh, and something I learned from Brian Zaro Yeah. Is that you can just kind of choose your own path in Nvidia.Kyle: Oh my God. Yeah.swyx: Which is not a normal big Corp thing. Yeah. Like you, you have a lane, you stay in your lane.Nader: I think probably the reason why I enjoy being in a, a big company, the mission is the boss probably from a startup guy. Yeah. The missionswyx: is the boss.Nader: Yeah. Uh, it feels like a big game of pickup basketball. Like, you know, if you play one, if you wanna play basketball, you just go up to the court and you're like, Hey look, we're gonna play this game and we need three.Yeah. And you just like find your three. That's honestly for every new initiative that's what it feels like. Yeah.Vibhu: It also like shows, right? Like Nvidia. Just releasing state-of-the-art stuff in every domain. Yeah. Like, okay, you expect foundation models with Nemo tron voice just randomly parakeet.Call parakeet just comes out another one, uh, voice. TheKyle: video voice team has always been producing.Vibhu: Yeah. There's always just every other domain of paper that comes out, dataset that comes out. It's like, I mean, it also stems back to what Nvidia has to do, right? You have to make chips years before they're actually produced.Right? So you need to know, you need to really [00:22:00] focus. TheKyle: design process starts likeVibhu: exactlyKyle: three to five years before the chip gets to the market.Vibhu: Yeah. I, I'm curious more about what that's like, right? So like, you have specialist teams. Is it just like, you know, people find an interest, you go in, you go deep on whatever, and that kind of feeds back into, you know, okay, we, we expect predictions.Like the internals at Nvidia must be crazy. Right? You know? Yeah. Yeah. You know, you, you must. Not even without selling to people, you have your own predictions of where things are going. Yeah. And they're very based, very grounded. Right?Kyle: Yeah. It, it, it's really interesting. So there's like two things that I think that Amed does, which are quite interesting.Uh, one is like, we really index into passion. There's a big. Sort of organizational top sound push to like ensure that people are working on the things that they're passionate about. So if someone proposes something that's interesting, many times they can just email someone like way up the chain that they would find this relevant and say like, Hey, can I go work on this?Nader: It's actually like I worked at a, a big company for a couple years before, uh, starting on my startup journey and like, it felt very weird if you were to like email out of chain, if that makes [00:23:00] sense. Yeah. The emails at Nvidia are like mosh pitsswyx: shoot,Nader: and it's just like 60 people, just whatever. And like they're, there's this,swyx: they got messy like, reply all you,Nader: oh, it's in, it's insane.It's insane. They justKyle: help. You know, Maxim,Nader: the context. But, but that's actually like, I've actually, so this is a weird thing where I used to be like, why would we send emails? We have Slack. I am the entire, I'm the exact opposite. I feel so bad for anyone who's like messaging me on Slack ‘cause I'm so unresponsive.swyx: Your emailNader: Maxi, email Maxim. I'm email maxing Now email is a different, email is perfect because man, we can't work together. I'm email is great, right? Because important threads get bumped back up, right? Yeah, yeah. Um, and so Slack doesn't do that. So I just have like this casino going off on the right or on the left and like, I don't know which thread was from where or what, but like the threads get And then also just like the subject, so you can have like working threads.I think what's difficult is like when you're small, if you're just not 40,000 people I think Slack will work fine, but there's, I don't know what the inflection point is. There is gonna be a point where that becomes really messy and you'll actually prefer having email. ‘cause you can have working threads.You can cc more than nine people in a thread.Kyle: You can fork stuff.Nader: You can [00:24:00] fork stuff, which is super nice and just like y Yeah. And so, but that is part of where you can propose a plan. You can also just. Start, honestly, momentum's the only authority, right? So like, if you can just start, start to make a little bit of progress and show someone something, and then they can try it.That's, I think what's been, you know, I think the most effective way to push anything for forward. And that's both at Nvidia and I think just generally.Kyle: Yeah, there's, there's the other concept that like is explored a lot at Nvidia, which is this idea of a zero billion dollar business. Like market creation is a big thing at Nvidia.Like,swyx: oh, you want to go and start a zero billion dollar business?Kyle: Jensen says, we are completely happy investing in zero billion dollar markets. We don't care if this creates revenue. It's important for us to know about this market. We think it will be important in the future. It can be zero billion dollars for a while.I'm probably minging as words here for, but like, you know, like, I'll give an example. NVIDIA's been working on autonomous driving for a a long time,swyx: like an Nvidia car.Kyle: No, they, they'veVibhu: used the Mercedes, right? They're around the HQ and I think it finally just got licensed out. Now they're starting to be used quite a [00:25:00] bit.For 10 years you've been seeing Mercedes with Nvidia logos driving.Kyle: If you're in like the South San Santa Clara, it's, it's actually from South. Yeah. So, um. Zero billion dollar markets are, are a thing like, you know, Jensen,swyx: I mean, okay, look, cars are not a zero billion dollar market. But yeah, that's a bad example.Nader: I think, I think he's, he's messaging, uh, zero today, but, or even like internally, right? Like, like it's like, uh, an org doesn't have to ruthlessly find revenue very quickly to justify their existence. Right. Like a lot of the important research, a lot of the important technology being developed that, that's kind ofKyle: where research, research is very ide ideologically free at Nvidia.Yeah. Like they can pursue things that they wereswyx: Were you research officially?Kyle: I was never in research. Officially. I was always in engineering. Yeah. We in, I'm in an org called Deep Warning Algorithms, which is basically just how do we make things that are relevant to deep warning go fast.swyx: That sounds freaking cool.Vibhu: And I think a lot of that is underappreciated, right? Like time series. This week Google put out time. FF paper. Yeah. A new time series, paper res. Uh, Symantec, ID [00:26:00] started applying Transformers LMS to Yes. Rec system. Yes. And when you think the scale of companies deploying these right. Amazon recommendations, Google web search, it's like, it's huge scale andKyle: Yeah.Vibhu: You want fast?Kyle: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Actually it's, it, I, there's a fun moment that brought me like full circle. Like, uh, Amazon Ads recently gave a talk where they talked about using Dynamo for generative recommendation, which was like super, like weirdly cathartic for me. I'm like, oh my God. I've, I've supplanted what I was working on.Like, I, you're using LMS now to do what I was doing five years ago.swyx: Yeah. Amazing. And let's go right into Dynamo. Uh, maybe introduce Yeah, sure. To the top down and Yeah.Kyle: I think at this point a lot of people are familiar with the term of inference. Like funnily enough, like I went from, you know, inference being like a really niche topic to being something that's like discussed on like normal people's Twitter feeds.It's,Nader: it's on billboardsKyle: here now. Yeah. Very, very strange. Driving, driving, seeing just an inference ad on 1 0 1 inference at scale is becoming a lot more important. Uh, we have these moments like, you know, open claw where you have these [00:27:00] agents that take lots and lots of tokens, but produce, incredible results.There are many different aspects of test time scaling so that, you know, you can use more inference to generate a better result than if you were to use like a short amount of inference. There's reasoning, there's quiring, there's, adding agency to the model, allowing it to call tools and use skills.Dyno sort came about at Nvidia. Because myself and a couple others were, were sort of talking about the, these concepts that like, you know, you have inference engines like VLMS, shelan, tenor, TLM and they have like one single copy. They, they, they sort of think about like things as like one single copy, like one replica, right?Why Scale Out WinsKyle: Like one version of the model. But when you're actually serving things at scale, you can't just scale up that replica because you end up with like performance problems. There's a scaling limit to scaling up replicas. So you actually have to scale out to use a, maybe some Kubernetes type terminology.We kind of realized that there was like. A lot of potential optimization that we could do in scaling out and building systems for data [00:28:00] center scale inference. So Dynamo is this data center scale inference engine that sits on top of the frameworks like VLM Shilling and 10 T lm and just makes things go faster because you can leverage the economy of scale.The fact that you have KV cash, which we can define a little bit later, uh, in all these machines that is like unique and you wanna figure out like the ways to maximize your cash hits or you want to employ new techniques in inference like disaggregation, which Dynamo had introduced to the world in, in, in March, not introduced, it was a academic talk, but beforehand.But we are, you know, one of the first frameworks to start, supporting it. And we wanna like, sort of combine all these techniques into sort of a modular framework that allows you to. Accelerate your inference at scale.Nader: By the way, Kyle and I became friends on my first date, Nvidia, and I always loved, ‘cause like he always teaches meswyx: new things.Yeah. By the way, this is why I wanted to put two of you together. I was like, yeah, this is, this is gonna beKyle: good. It's very, it's very different, you know, like we've, we, we've, we've talked to each other a bunch [00:29:00] actually, you asked like, why, why can't we scale up?Nader: Yeah.Scale Up Limits ExplainedNader: model, you said model replicas.Kyle: Yeah. So you, so scale up means assigning moreswyx: heavier?Kyle: Yeah, heavier. Like making things heavier. Yeah, adding more GPUs. Adding more CPUs. Scale out is just like having a barrier saying, I'm gonna duplicate my representation of the model or a representation of this microservice or something, and I'm gonna like, replicate it Many times.Handle, load. And the reason that you can't scale, scale up, uh, past some points is like, you know, there, there, there are sort of hardware bounds and algorithmic bounds on, on that type of scaling. So I'll give you a good example that's like very trivial. Let's say you're on an H 100. The Maxim ENV link domain for H 100, for most Ds H one hundreds is heus, right?So if you scaled up past that, you're gonna have to figure out ways to handle the fact that now for the GPUs to communicate, you have to do it over Infin band, which is still very fast, but is not as fast as ENV link.swyx: Is it like one order of magnitude, like hundreds or,Kyle: it's about an order of magnitude?Yeah. Okay. Um, soswyx: not terrible.Kyle: [00:30:00] Yeah. I, I need to, I need to remember the, the data sheet here, like, I think it's like about 500 gigabytes. Uh, a second unidirectional for ENV link, and about 50 gigabytes a second unidirectional for Infin Band. I, it, it depends on the, the generation.swyx: I just wanna set this up for people who are not familiar with these kinds of like layers and the trash speedVibhu: and all that.Of course.From Laptop to Multi NodeVibhu: Also, maybe even just going like a few steps back before that, like most people are very familiar with. You see a, you know, you can use on your laptop, whatever these steel viol, lm you can just run inference there. All, there's all, you can, youcan run it on thatVibhu: laptop. You can run on laptop.Then you get to, okay, uh, models got pretty big, right? JLM five, they doubled the size, so mm-hmm. Uh, what do you do when you have to go from, okay, I can get 128 gigs of memory. I can run it on a spark. Then you have to go multi GPU. Yeah. Okay. Multi GPU, there's some support there. Now, if I'm a company and I don't have like.I'm not hiring the best researchers for this. Right. But I need to go [00:31:00] multi-node, right? I have a lot of servers. Okay, now there's efficiency problems, right? You can have multiple eight H 100 nodes, but, you know, is that as a, like, how do you do that efficiently?Kyle: Yeah. How do you like represent them? How do you choose how to represent the model?Yeah, exactly right. That's a, that's like a hard question. Everyone asks, how do you size oh, I wanna run GLM five, which just came out new model. There have been like four of them in the past week, by the way, like a bunch of new models.swyx: You know why? Right? Deep seek.Kyle: No comment. Oh. Yeah, but Ggl, LM five, right?We, we have this, new model. It's, it's like a large size, and you have to figure out how to both scale up and scale out, right? Because you have to find the right representation that you care about. Everyone does this differently. Let's be very clear. Everyone figures this out in their own path.Nader: I feel like a lot of AI or ML even is like, is like this. I think people think, you know, I, I was, there was some tweet a few months ago that was like, why hasn't fine tuning as a service taken off? You know, that might be me. It might have been you. Yeah. But people want it to be such an easy recipe to follow.But even like if you look at an ML model and specificKyle: to you Yeah,Nader: yeah.Kyle: And the [00:32:00] model,Nader: the situation, and there's just so much tinkering, right? Like when you see a model that has however many experts in the ME model, it's like, why that many experts? I don't, they, you know, they tried a bunch of things and that one seemed to do better.I think when it comes to how you're serving inference, you know, you have a bunch of decisions to make and there you can always argue that you can take something and make it more optimal. But I think it's this internal calibration and appetite for continued calibration.Vibhu: Yeah. And that doesn't mean like, you know, people aren't taking a shot at this, like tinker from thinking machines, you know?Yeah. RL as a service. Yeah, totally. It's, it also gets even harder when you try to do big model training, right? We're not the best at training Moes, uh, when they're pre-trained. Like we saw this with LAMA three, right? They're trained in such a sparse way that meta knows there's gonna be a bunch of inference done on these, right?They'll open source it, but it's very trained for what meta infrastructure wants, right? They wanna, they wanna inference it a lot. Now the question to basically think about is, okay, say you wanna serve a chat application, a coding copilot, right? You're doing a layer of rl, you're serving a model for X amount of people.Is it a chat model, a coding model? Dynamo, you know, back to that,Kyle: it's [00:33:00] like, yeah, sorry. So you we, we sort of like jumped off of, you know, jumped, uh, on that topic. Everyone has like, their own, own journey.Cost Quality Latency TradeoffsKyle: And I, I like to think of it as defined by like, what is the model you need? What is the accuracy you need?Actually I talked to NA about this earlier. There's three axes you care about. What is the quality that you're able to produce? So like, are you accurate enough or can you complete the task with enough, performance, high enough performance. Yeah, yeah. Uh, there's cost. Can you serve the model or serve your workflow?Because it's not just the model anymore, it's the workflow. It's the multi turn with an agent cheaply enough. And then can you serve it fast enough? And we're seeing all three of these, like, play out, like we saw, we saw new models from OpenAI that you know, are faster. You have like these new fast versions of models.You can change the amount of thinking to change the amount of quality, right? Produce more tokens, but at a higher cost in a, in a higher latency. And really like when you start this journey of like trying to figure out how you wanna host a model, you, you, you think about three things. What is the model I need to serve?How many times do I need to call it? What is the input sequence link was [00:34:00] the, what does the workflow look like on top of it? What is the SLA, what is the latency SLA that I need to achieve? Because there's usually some, this is usually like a constant, you, you know, the SLA that you need to hit and then like you try and find the lowest cost version that hits all of these constraints.Usually, you know, you, you start with those things and you say you, you kind of do like a bit of experimentation across some common configurations. You change the tensor parallel size, which is a form of parallelismVibhu: I take, it goes even deeper first. Gotta think what model.Kyle: Yes, course,ofKyle: course. It's like, it's like a multi-step design process because as you said, you can, you can choose a smaller model and then do more test time scaling and it'll equate the quality of a larger model because you're doing the test time scaling or you're adding a harness or something.So yes, it, it goes way deeper than that. But from the performance perspective, like once you get to the model you need, you need to host, you look at that and you say, Hey. I have this model, I need to serve it at the speed. What is the right configuration for that?Nader: You guys see the recent, uh, there was a paper I just saw like a few days ago that, uh, if you run [00:35:00] the same prompt twice, you're getting like double Just try itagain.Nader: Yeah, exactly.Vibhu: And you get a lot. Yeah. But the, the key thing there is you give the context of the failed try, right? Yeah. So it takes a shot. And this has been like, you know, basic guidance for quite a while. Just try again. ‘cause you know, trying, just try again. Did you try again? All adviceNader: in life.Vibhu: Just, it's a paper from Google, if I'm not mistaken, right?Yeah,Vibhu: yeah. I think it, it's like a seven bas little short paper. Yeah. Yeah. The title's very cute. And it's just like, yeah, just try again. Give it ask context,Kyle: multi-shot. You just like, say like, hey, like, you know, like take, take a little bit more, take a little bit more information, try and fail. Fail.Vibhu: And that basic concept has gone pretty deep.There's like, um, self distillation, rl where you, you do self distillation, you do rl and you have past failure and you know, that gives some signal so people take, try it again. Not strong enough.swyx: Uh, for, for listeners, uh, who listen to here, uh, vivo actually, and I, and we run a second YouTube channel for our paper club where, oh, that's awesome.Vivo just covered this. Yeah. Awesome. Self desolation and all that's, that's why he, to speed [00:36:00] on it.Nader: I'll to check it out.swyx: Yeah. It, it's just a good practice, like everyone needs, like a paper club where like you just read papers together and the social pressure just kind of forces you to just,Nader: we, we,there'sNader: like a big inference.Kyle: ReadingNader: group at a video. I feel so bad every time. I I, he put it on like, on our, he shared it.swyx: One, one ofNader: your guys,swyx: uh, is, is big in that, I forget es han Yeah, yeah,Kyle: es Han's on my team. Actually. Funny. There's a, there's a, there's a employee transfer between us. Han worked for Nater at Brev, and now he, he's on my team.He wasNader: our head of ai. And then, yeah, once we got in, andswyx: because I'm always looking for like, okay, can, can I start at another podcast that only does that thing? Yeah. And, uh, Esan was like, I was trying to like nudge Esan into like, is there something here? I mean, I don't think there's, there's new infant techniques every day.So it's like, it's likeKyle: you would, you would actually be surprised, um, the amount of blog posts you see. And ifswyx: there's a period where it was like, Medusa hydra, what Eagle, like, youKyle: know, now we have new forms of decode, uh, we have new forms of specula, of decoding or new,swyx: what,Kyle: what are youVibhu: excited? And it's exciting when you guys put out something like Tron.‘cause I remember the paper on this Tron three, [00:37:00] uh, the amount of like post train, the on tokens that the GPU rich can just train on. And it, it was a hybrid state space model, right? Yeah.Kyle: It's co-designed for the hardware.Vibhu: Yeah, go design for the hardware. And one of the things was always, you know, the state space models don't scale as well when you do a conversion or whatever the performance.And you guys are like, no, just keep draining. And Nitron shows a lot of that. Yeah.Nader: Also, something cool about Nitron it was released in layers, if you will, very similar to Dynamo. It's, it's, it's essentially it was released as you can, the pre-training, post-training data sets are released. Yeah. The recipes on how to do it are released.The model itself is released. It's full model. You just benefit from us turning on the GPUs. But there are companies like, uh, ServiceNow took the dataset and they trained their own model and we were super excited and like, you know, celebrated that work.ZoomVibhu: different. Zoom is, zoom is CGI, I think, uh, you know, also just to add like a lot of models don't put out based models and if there's that, why is fine tuning not taken off?You know, you can do your own training. Yeah,Kyle: sure.Vibhu: You guys put out based model, I think you put out everything.Nader: I believe I know [00:38:00]swyx: about base. BasicallyVibhu: without baseswyx: basic can be cancelable.Vibhu: Yeah. Base can be cancelable.swyx: Yeah.Vibhu: Safety training.swyx: Did we get a full picture of dymo? I, I don't know if we, what,Nader: what I'd love is you, you mentioned the three axes like break it down of like, you know, what's prefilled decode and like what are the optimizations that we can get with Dynamo?Kyle: Yeah. That, that's, that's, that's a great point. So to summarize on that three axis problem, right, there are three things that determine whether or not something can be done with inference, cost, quality, latency, right? Dynamo is supposed to be there to provide you like the runtime that allows you to pull levers to, you know, mix it up and move around the parade of frontier or the preto surface that determines is this actually possible with inference And AI todayNader: gives you the knobs.Kyle: Yeah, exactly. It gives you the knobs.Disaggregation Prefill vs DecodeKyle: Uh, and one thing that like we, we use a lot in contemporary inference and is, you know, starting to like pick up from, you know, in, in general knowledge is this co concept of disaggregation. So historically. Models would be hosted with a single inference engine. And that inference engine [00:39:00] would ping pong between two phases.There's prefill where you're reading the sequence generating KV cache, which is basically just a set of vectors that represent the sequence. And then using that KV cache to generate new tokens, which is called Decode. And some brilliant researchers across multiple different papers essentially made the realization that if you separate these two phases, you actually gain some benefits.Those benefits are basically a you don't have to worry about step synchronous scheduling. So the way that an inference engine works is you do one step and then you finish it, and then you schedule, you start scheduling the next step there. It's not like fully asynchronous. And the problem with that is you would have, uh, essentially pre-fill and decode are, are actually very different in terms of both their resource requirements and their sometimes their runtime.So you would have like prefill that would like block decode steps because you, you'd still be pre-filing and you couldn't schedule because you know the step has to end. So you remove that scheduling issue and then you also allow you, or you yourself, to like [00:40:00] split the work into two different ki types of pools.So pre-fill typically, and, and this changes as, as model architecture changes. Pre-fill is, right now, compute bound most of the time with the sequence is sufficiently long. It's compute bound. On the decode side because you're doing a full Passover, all the weights and the entire sequence, every time you do a decode step and you're, you don't have the quadratic computation of KV cache, it's usually memory bound because you're retrieving a linear amount of memory and you're doing a linear amount of compute as opposed to prefill where you retrieve a linear amount of memory and then use a quadratic.You know,Nader: it's funny, someone exo Labs did a really cool demo where for the DGX Spark, which has a lot more compute, you can do the pre the compute hungry prefill on a DG X spark and then do the decode on a, on a Mac. Yeah. And soVibhu: that's faster.Nader: Yeah. Yeah.Kyle: So you could, you can do that. You can do machine strat stratification.Nader: Yeah.Kyle: And like with our future generation generations of hardware, we actually announced, like with Reuben, this [00:41:00] new accelerator that is prefilled specific. It's called Reuben, CPX. SoKubernetes Scaling with GroveNader: I have a question when you do the scale out. Yeah. Is scaling out easier with Dynamo? Because when you need a new node, you can dedicate it to either the Prefill or, uh, decode.Kyle: Yeah. So Dynamo actually has like a, a Kubernetes component in it called Grove that allows you to, to do this like crazy scaling specialization. It has like this hot, it's a representation that, I don't wanna go too deep into Kubernetes here, but there was a previous way that you would like launch multi-node work.Uh, it's called Leader Worker Set. It's in the Kubernetes standard, and Leader worker set is great. It served a lot of people super well for a long period of time. But one of the things that it's struggles with is representing a set of cases where you have a multi-node replica that has a pair, right?You know, prefill and decode, or it's not paired, but it has like a second stage that has a ratio that changes over time. And prefill and decode are like two different things as your workload changes, right? The amount of prefill you'll need to do may change. [00:42:00] The amount of decode that you, you'll need to do might change, right?Like, let's say you start getting like insanely long queries, right? That probably means that your prefill scales like harder because you're hitting these, this quadratic scaling growth.swyx: Yeah.And then for listeners, like prefill will be long input. Decode would be long output, for example, right?Kyle: Yeah. So like decode, decode scale. I mean, decode is funny because the amount of tokens that you produce scales with the output length, but the amount of work that you do per step scales with the amount of tokens in the context.swyx: Yes.Kyle: So both scales with the input and the output.swyx: That's true.Kyle: But on the pre-fold view code side, like if.Suddenly, like the amount of work you're doing on the decode side stays about the same or like scales a little bit, and then the prefilled side like jumps up a lot. You actually don't want that ratio to be the same. You want it to change over time. So Dynamo has a set of components that A, tell you how to scale.It tells you how many prefilled workers and decoded workers you, it thinks you should have, and also provides a scheduling API for Kubernetes that allows you to actually represent and affect this scheduling on, on, on your actual [00:43:00] hardware, on your compute infrastructure.Nader: Not gonna lie. I feel a little embarrassed for being proud of my SVG function earlier.swyx: No, itNader: wasreallyKyle: cute. I, Iswyx: likeNader: it's all,swyx: it's all engineering. It's all engineering. Um, that's where I'mKyle: technical.swyx: One thing I'm, I'm kind of just curious about with all with you see at a systems level, everything going on here. Mm-hmm. And we, you know, we're scaling it up in, in multi, in distributed systems.Context Length and Co Designswyx: Um, I think one thing that's like kind of, of the moment right now is people are asking, is there any SOL sort of upper bounds. In terms of like, let's call, just call it context length for one for of a better word, but you can break it down however you like.Nader: Yeah.swyx: I just think like, well, yeah, I mean, like clearly you can engage in hybrid architectures and throw in some state space models in there.All, all you want, but it looks, still looks very attention heavy.Kyle: Yes. Uh, yeah. Long context is attention heavy. I mean, we have these hybrid models, um,swyx: to take and most, most models like cap out at a million contexts and that's it. Yeah. Like for the last two years has been it.Kyle: Yeah. The model hardware context co-design thing that we're seeing these days is actually super [00:44:00] interesting.It's like my, my passion, like my secret side passion. We see models like Kimmy or G-P-T-O-S-S. I'm use these because I, I know specific things about these models. So Kimmy two comes out, right? And it's an interesting model. It's like, like a deep seek style architecture is MLA. It's basically deep seek, scaled like a little bit differently, um, and obviously trained differently as well.But they, they talked about, why they made the design choices for context. Kimmy has more experts, but fewer attention heads, and I believe a slightly smaller attention, uh, like dimension. But I need to remember, I need to check that. Uh, it doesn't matter. But they discussed this actually at length in a blog post on ji, which is like our pu which is like credit puswyx: Yeah.Kyle: Um, in, in China. Chinese red.swyx: Yeah.Kyle: It's, yeah. So it, it's, it's actually an incredible blog post. Uh, like all the mls people in, in, in that, I've seen that on GPU are like very brilliant, but they, they talk about like the creators of Kimi K two [00:45:00] actually like, talked about it on, on, on there in the blog post.And they say, we, we actually did an experiment, right? Attention scales with the number of heads, obviously. Like if you have 64 heads versus 32 heads, you do half the work of attention. You still scale quadratic, but you do half the work. And they made a, a very specific like. Sort of barter in their system, in their architecture, they basically said, Hey, what if we gave it more experts, so we're gonna use more memory capacity.But we keep the amount of activated experts the same. We increase the expert sparsity, so we have fewer experts act. The ratio to of experts activated to number of experts is smaller, and we decrease the number of attention heads.Vibhu: And kind of for context, what the, what we had been seeing was you make models sparser instead.So no one was really touching heads. You're just having, uh,Kyle: well, they, they did, they implicitly made it sparser.Vibhu: Yeah, yeah. For, for Kimmy. They did,Kyle: yes.Vibhu: They also made it sparser. But basically what we were seeing was people were at the level of, okay, there's a sparsity ratio. You want more total parameters, less active, and that's sparsity.[00:46:00]But what you see from papers, like, the labs like moonshot deep seek, they go to the level of, okay, outside of just number of experts, you can also change how many attention heads and less attention layers. More attention. Layers. Layers, yeah. Yes, yes. So, and that's all basically coming back to, just tied together is like hardware model, co-design, which isKyle: hardware model, co model, context, co-design.Vibhu: Yeah.Kyle: Right. Like if you were training a, a model that was like. Really, really short context, uh, or like really is good at super short context tasks. You may like design it in a way such that like you don't care about attention scaling because it hasn't hit that, like the turning point where like the quadratic curve takes over.Nader: How do you consider attention or context as a separate part of the co-design? Like I would imagine hardware or just how I would've thought of it is like hardware model. Co-design would be hardware model context co-designKyle: because the harness and the context that is produced by the harness is a part of the model.Once it's trained in,Vibhu: like even though towards the end you'll do long context, you're not changing architecture through I see. Training. Yeah.Kyle: I mean you can try.swyx: You're saying [00:47:00] everyone's training the harness into the model.Kyle: I would say to some degree, orswyx: there's co-design for harness. I know there's a small amount, but I feel like not everyone has like gone full send on this.Kyle: I think, I think I think it's important to internalize the harness that you think the model will be running. Running into the model.swyx: Yeah. Interesting. Okay. Bash is like the universal harness,Kyle: right? Like I'll, I'll give. An example here, right? I mean, or just like a, like a, it's easy proof, right? If you can train against a harness and you're using that harness for everything, wouldn't you just train with the harness to ensure that you get the best possible quality out of,swyx: Well, the, uh, I, I can provide a counter argument.Yeah, sure. Which is what you wanna provide a generally useful model for other people to plug into their harnesses, right? So if youKyle: Yeah. Harnesses can be open, open source, right?swyx: Yeah. So I mean, that's, that's effectively what's happening with Codex.Kyle: Yeah.swyx: And, but like you may want like a different search tool and then you may have to name it differently or,Nader: I don't know how much people have pushed on this, but can you.Train a model, would it be, have you have people compared training a model for the for the harness versus [00:48:00] like post training forswyx: I think it's the same thing. It's the same thing. It's okay. Just extra post training. INader: see.swyx: And so, I mean, cognition does this course, it does this where you, you just have to like, if your tool is slightly different, um, either force your tool to be like the tool that they train for.Hmm. Or undo their training for their tool and then Oh, that's re retrain. Yeah. It's, it's really annoying and like,Kyle: I would hope that eventually we hit like a certain level of generality with respect to training newswyx: tools. This is not a GI like, it's, this is a really stupid like. Learn my tool b***h.Like, I don't know if, I don't know if I can say that, but like, you know, um, I think what my point kind of is, is that there's, like, I look at slopes of the scaling laws and like, this slope is not working, man. We, we are at a million token con

In this episode of Off Script, we continue our conversation on the structural vulnerabilities in the global pharmaceutical supply chain with Ronald T. Piervincenzi, CEO, USP, turning the focus toward practical strategies for strengthening the resilience of the global medicine supply chain. Piervincenzi discusses the economic and structural barriers to rebuilding domestic capacity for APIs and key starting materials, and explains why resilience will require coordinated incentives that reward supply security rather than simply the lowest price. He also explores how advanced manufacturing approaches could help make domestic production more viable by improving efficiency and reducing environmental impact. The conversation also examines how global quality standards can enable trusted international manufacturing networks among allied countries, and how USP's new Resilience Center aims to bring together data, benchmarking frameworks, and stakeholder collaboration to help industry and policymakers better measure supply chain resilience.

In 1263 BCE, priests announced the death of the APIS BULL. Sacred to Ptah, the bull dwelled in the temple at Men-nefer (Memphis). Now, in year 30 of Ramesses II, the King's son KHA-EM-WASET would lead the funerary processions. Shortly after, the prince inaugurated the first phase of a now famous monument. The Lesser Vaults of the SERAPEUM begin to take shape. The prince also starts a project for which he is renowned: the preservation and restoration of old monuments. These acts have earned him the moniker "the first Egyptologist." Logo: Statue of Khaemwaset from Asyut, now in the British Museum (Photo Dominic Perry). Music: Keith Zizza www.keithzizza.net, used with artist's permission. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Saurabh Shintre, Founder and CEO of Realm Labs, is on Defender Fridays today to discuss securing AI from within.Saurabh previously led the AI security research at Splunk and Symantec. He has been at the forefront of AI security research for nearly a decade with multiple publications and patents and regularly features on public forums on issues regarding security and AI. Saurabh holds a PhD from Carnegie Mellon. Learn more at https://www.realmlabs.ai/Register for Live SessionsJoin us every Friday at 10:30am PT for live, interactive discussions with industry experts. Whether you're a seasoned professional or just curious about the field, these sessions offer an engaging dialogue between our guests, hosts, and you – our audience.Register here: https://limacharlie.io/defender-fridaysSubscribe to our YouTube channel and hit the notification bell to never miss a live session or catch up on past episodes!Sponsored by LimaCharlieThis episode is brought to you by LimaCharlie, a cloud-native SecOps platform where AI agents operate security infrastructure directly. Founded in 2018, LimaCharlie provides complete API coverage across detection, response, automation, and telemetry, with multi-tenant architecture designed for MSSPs and MDR providers managing thousands of unique client environments.Why LimaCharlie?Transparency: Complete visibility into every action and decision. No black boxes, no vendor lock-in.Scalability: Security operations that scale like infrastructure, not like procurement cycles. Move at cloud speed.Unopinionated Design: Integrate the tools you need, not just those contracts allow. Build security on your terms.Agentic SecOps Workspace (ASW): AI agents that operate alongside your team with observable, auditable actions through the same APIs human analysts use.Security Primitives: Composable building blocks that endure as tools come and go. Build once, evolve continuously.Try the Agentic SecOps Workspace free: https://limacharlie.ioLearn more: https://docs.limacharlie.io/Follow LimaCharlieSign up for free: https://limacharlie.io/LinkedIn: / limacharlieio X: https://x.com/limacharlieioCommunity Discourse: https://community.limacharlie.com/Host: Maxime Lamothe-Brassard - CEO / Co-founder at LimaCharlie

In this week's Podcast: Nosema apis and Nosema Ceranae. Two, spore forming, parasitic Microsporidia!  They sound like something of a horror show for our bees and the effects of a heavy infection can be quite damaging. Listen in as I explain what it is, how you can identify it, and ultimately deal with it, so your bees can have a healthy and productive Summer.Hi, I'm Stewart Spinks, welcome to Episode 382 of my podcast, Beekeeping Short and Sweet.Please support us throught affiliate links below, they cost you nothing and help us continue to produce our content.References: Glavinic U, Blagojevic J, Ristanic M, Stevanovic J, Lakic N, Mirilovic M, Stanimirovic Z. Use of Thymol in Nosema ceranae Control and Health Improvement of Infected Honey Bees. Insects. 2022 Jun 24;13(7):574. doi: 10.3390/insects13070574. PMID: 35886750; PMCID: PMC9319372.Hive Five Multi Guard EntrancesBeekeeping Courses at Thorne Beehvies in Wragby Lincolnshire 2026Some of my Favourite Microscopy Books:Pollen Loads of the Honeybee by Dorothy HodgesRex Sawyer's Pollen IdentificationPollen Grains and Honeydew by Margaret AdamsThe Pollen Landscape by Joss BartlettPollen Microscopy by Norman ChapmanThe National Bee Unit Varroa Information can be found HEREBee Aware Varroa Information can be found HEREThorne Beehives Bees on a Budget Hive The Beekeeper's Dictionary websiteEthyl Acetate for colony destructions can be found hereGardening Potting Tray for effective frame cleaningStainless Steel Stock Pots for use as a double boiler. Get one slightly larger than the other to fit inside.Gas Stove for outdoor use to render wax and old comb.Contact Me at The Norfolk Honey CompanyVMD Website: Click HEREJoin Our Beekeeping Community in the following ways:Early Release & Additional Video and Podcast Content - Access HereStewart's Beekeeping Basics Facebook Private Group - Click HereTwitter - @NorfolkHoneyCo - Check Out Our FeedInstagram - @norfolkhoneyco - View Our Great PhotographsSign Up for my email updates by visiting my website hereAmazon links are affiliate links. I recieve a small commission should you choose to purchase.Support the show

In this episode of The Defiant Podcast, Camila Russo sits down with Jing Wang to discuss how Optimism is evolving and why the debate over what counts as a “real” Ethereum L2 might be missing the point.Jing argues that the most important question isn't whether a chain is an L1, L2, or sidechain. It's whether the architecture actually serves users and real-world use cases.“If it looks like an L1, we'll build that. If it looks like an L2, we'll build that.”In the conversation we cover:Why Optimism now sees itself as a network of blockchains (the Superchain)The debate around Ethereum L2 decentralization sparked by Vitalik ButerinWhy institutions are already using decentralized railsWhy ZK proofs are the futureAnd why Jing believes finance inevitably moves on-chainNexo is a premier digital assets wealth platform that helps clients build, manage, and preserve their wealth through advanced interest-generating products, crypto-backed credit, advanced trading tools, and 24/7 client care. Get started at https://nexo.com/defiant Your Web3 product deserves solid payment infrastructure. Global on/off-ramps, custom APIs, and DeFi connectivity trusted by the biggest names in crypto: https://mercuryo.io/

In this talk, Aditya, an experienced AI Researcher and Engineer, shares his technical evolution—from his roots in embedded systems to building complex, large-scale AI agent architectures. We explore the practical challenges of enterprise AI adoption, the shifting economics of LLMs, and the infrastructure required to deploy reliable multi-agent systems.You'll learn about:- The ROI of Fine-Tuning: How to decide between specialized small models and general-purpose APIs based on cost and latency.- Agent MLOps Stack: The essential roles of guardrails, data lineage, and auditability in AI workflows.- Reliability in High-Stakes Verticals: Navigating the unique AI deployment challenges in the legal and healthcare sectors.- Evaluation Frameworks: How to design robust evals for multi-tenancy systems at scale.- Human-in-the-Loop: Strategies for aligning "LLM as a judge" with human-labeled ground truth to eliminate bias.- The Future of AGI: What to expect from the next wave of multimodal agents and autonomous systems.TIMECODES: 00:00 Aditya's from embedded systems to AI08:52 Enterprise AI research and adoption gaps 13:13 AI reliability in legal and healthcare 19:16 Specialized models and agent governance 24:58 LLM economics: Fine-tuning vs. API ROI 30:26 Agent MLOps: Guardrails and data lineage 36:55 Iterating on agents with user feedback 43:30 AI evals for multi-tenancy and scale 50:18 Aligning LLM judges with human labels 56:40 Agent infrastructure and deployment risks 1:02:35 Future of AGI and multimodal agentsThis talk is designed for Machine Learning Engineers, Data Scientists, and Technical Product Managers who are moving beyond AI prototypes and into production-grade agentic workflows. It is especially relevant for those working in regulated industries or managing high-volume API budgets.Connect with Aditya:- Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/aditya-gautam-68233a30/Connect with DataTalks.Club:- Join the community - https://datatalks.club/slack.html- Subscribe to our Google calendar to have all our events in your calendar - https://calendar.google.com/calendar/r?cid=ZjhxaWRqbnEwamhzY3A4ODA5azFlZ2hzNjBAZ3JvdXAuY2FsZW5kYXIuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbQ- Check other upcoming events - https://lu.ma/dtc-events- GitHub: https://github.com/DataTalksClub- LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/datatalks-club/ - Twitter - https://twitter.com/DataTalksClub - Website - https://datatalks.club/

Woodson Martin, CEO ofOutSystems, argues that successful enterprise AI deployments rarely rely on standalone agents. Instead, production systems combine AI agents with data, workflows, APIs, applications, and human oversight. While claims that “95% of agent pilots fail” are common, Martin suggests many of those pilots were simply low-commitment experiments made possible by the low cost of testing AI. Enterprises that succeed typically keep humans in the loop, at least initially, to review recommendations and maintain control over decisions. Current enterprise use cases for agents include document processing, decision support, and personalized outputs. When integrated into broader systems, these applications can deliver measurable productivity gains. For example,Travel Essencebuilt an agentic system that reduced a two-hour customer planning process to three minutes, allowing staff to focus more on sales and helping drive 20% top-line growth. Martin also believes AI will pressure traditional SaaS seat-based pricing and accelerate custom software development. In this environment, governed platforms like OutSystems can help enterprises adopt “vibe coding” while maintaining compliance, security, and lifecycle management. Learn more from The New Stack about the latest developments around enterprise adoption of vibe coding: How To Use Vibe Coding Safely in the Enterprise 5 Challenges With Vibe Coding for Enterprises  Vibe Coding: The Shadow IT Problem No One Saw Coming Join our community of newsletter subscribers to stay on top of the news and at the top of your game. 

From WEDI's 2026 Winter Forum, Michael chats with three payer representatives who discuss how access APIs are improving the patient experience by making data easier to access, use, and share across care journeys. Tom Loomis, Enterprise Architecture- Interoperability, Evernorth Nancy Bevin, Director, Provider Connectivity, Medica Ron Wampler, Executive Director, Interoperability, Aetna, a CVS Health Company

Luis y Albert se sientan a hablar de cómo están usando la inteligencia artificial en su día a día como media buyers en 2026.Nada de teorías: herramientas concretas, workflows que ya aplican con clientes y una comparativa honesta de qué IA merece tu dinero y cuál no.En este episodio aprenderás:

The reception to our recent post on Code Reviews has been strong. Catch up!Amid a maelstrom of discussion on whether or not AI is killing SaaS, one of the top publicly listed SaaS companies in the world has just reported record revenues, clearing well over $1.1B in ARR for the first time with a 28% margin. As we comment on the pod, Aaron Levie is the rare public company CEO equally at home in both worlds of Silicon Valley and Wall Street/Main Street, by day helping 70% of the Fortune 500 with their Enterprise Advanced Suite, and yet by night is often found in the basements of early startups and tweeting viral insights about the future of agents.Now that both Cursor, Cloudflare, Perplexity, Anthropic and more have made Filesystems and Sandboxes and various forms of “Just Give the Agent a Box” cool (not just cool; it is now one of the single hottest areas in AI infrastructure growing 100% MoM), we find it a delightfully appropriate time to do the episode with the OG CEO who has been giving humans and computers Boxes since he was a college dropout pitching VCs at a Michael Arrington house party.Enjoy our special pod, with fan favorite returning guest/guest cohost Jeff Huber!Note: We didn't directly discuss the AI vs SaaS debate - Aaron has done many, many, many other podcasts on that, and you should read his definitive essay on it. Most commentators do not understand SaaS businesses because they have never scaled one themselves, and deeply reflected on what the true value proposition of SaaS is.We also discuss Your Company is a Filesystem:We also shoutout CTO Ben Kus' and the AI team, who talked about the technical architecture and will return for AIE WF 2026.Full Video EpisodeTimestamps* 00:00 Adapting Work for Agents* 01:29 Why Every Agent Needs a Box* 04:38 Agent Governance and Identity* 11:28 Why Coding Agents Took Off First* 21:42 Context Engineering and Search Limits* 31:29 Inside Agent Evals* 33:23 Industries and Datasets* 35:22 Building the Agent Team* 38:50 Read Write Agent Workflows* 41:54 Docs Graphs and Founder Mode* 55:38 Token FOMO Culture* 56:31 Production Function Secrets* 01:01:08 Film Roots to Box* 01:03:38 AI Future of Movies* 01:06:47 Media DevRel and EngineeringTranscriptAdapting Work for AgentsAaron Levie: Like you don't write code, you talk to an agent and it goes and does it for you, and you may be at best review it. That's even probably like, like largely not even what you're doing. What's happening is we are changing our work to make the agents effective. In that model, the agent didn't really adapt to how we work.We basically adapted to how the agent works. All of the economy has to go through that exact same evolution. Right now, it's a huge asset and an advantage for the teams that do it early and that are kinda wired into doing this ‘cause you'll see compounding returns. But that's just gonna take a while for most companies to actually go and get this deployed.swyx: Welcome to the Lane Space Pod. We're back in the chroma studio with uh, chroma, CEO, Jeff Hoover. Welcome returning guest now guest host.Aaron Levie: It's a pleasure. Wow. How'd you get upgraded to, uh, to that?swyx: Because he's like the perfect guy to be guest those for you.Aaron Levie: That makes sense actually, for We love context. We, we both really love context le we really do.We really do.swyx: Uh, and we're here with, uh, Aaron Levy. Welcome.Aaron Levie: Thank you. Good to, uh, good to be [00:01:00] here.swyx: Uh, yeah. So we've all met offline and like chatted a little bit, but like, it's always nice to get these things in person and conversation. Yeah. You just started off with so much energy. You're, you're super excited about agents.I loveAaron Levie: agents.swyx: Yeah. Open claw. Just got by, got bought by OpenAI. No, not bought, but you know, you know what I mean?Aaron Levie: Some, some, you know, acquihire. Executiveswyx: hire.Aaron Levie: Executive hire. Okay. Executive hire. Say,swyx: hey, that's my term. Okay. Um, what are you pounding the table on on agents? You have so many insightful tweets.Why Every Agent Needs a BoxAaron Levie: Well, the thing that, that we get super excited by that I think is probably, you know, should be relatively obvious is we've, we've built a platform to help enterprises manage their files and their, their corporate files and the permissions of who has access to those files and the sharing collaboration of those files.All of those files contain really, really important information for the enterprise. It might have your contracts, it might have your research materials, it might have marketing information, it might have your memos. All that data obviously has, you know, predominantly been used by humans. [00:02:00] But there's been one really interesting problem, which is that, you know, humans only really work with their files during an active engagement with them, and they kind of go away and you don't really see them for a long time.And all of a sudden, uh, with the power of AI and AI agents, all of that data becomes extremely relevant as this ongoing source of, of answers to new questions of data that will transform into, into something else that, that produces value in your organization. It, it contains the answer to the new employee that's onboarding, that needs to ramp up on a project.Um, it contains the answer to the right thing to sell a customer when you're having a conversation to them, with them contains the roadmap information that's gonna produce the next feature. So all that data. That previously we've been just sort of storing and, and you know, occasionally forgetting about, ‘cause we're only working on the new active stuff.All of that information becomes valuable to the enterprise and it's gonna become extremely valuable to end users because now they can have agents go find what they're looking for and produce new, new [00:03:00] value and new data on that information. And it's gonna become incredibly valuable to agents because agents can roam around and do a bunch of work and they're gonna need access to that data as well.And um, and you know, sometimes that will be an agent that is sort of working on behalf of, of, of you and, and effectively as you as and, and they are kind of accessing all of the same information that you have access to and, and operating as you in the system. And then sometimes there's gonna be agents that are just.Effectively autonomous and kind of run on their own and, and you're gonna collaborate and work with them kind of like you did another person. Open Claw being the most recent and maybe first real sort of, you know, kind of, you know, up updating everybody's, you know, views of this landscape version of, of what that could look like, which is, okay, I have an agent.It's on its own system, it's on its own computer, it has access to its own tools. I probably don't give it access to my entire life. I probably communicate with it like I would an assistant or a colleague and then it, it sort of has this sandbox environment. So all of that has massive implications for a platform that manage that [00:04:00] enterprise data.We think it's gonna just transform how we work with all of the enterprise content that we work with, and we just have to make sure we're building the right platform to support that.swyx: The sort of shorthand I put it is as people build agents, everybody's just realizing that every agent needs a box. Yes.And it's nice to be called box and just give everyone a box.Aaron Levie: Hey, I if I, you know, if we can make that go viral, uh, like I, I think that that terminology, I, that's theswyx: tagline. Every agentAaron Levie: needs a box. Every agent needs a box. If we can make that the headline of this, I'm fine with this. And that's the billboard I wanna like Yeah, exactly.Every agent needs a box. Um, I like it. Can we ship this? Like,swyx: okay, let's do it. Yeah.Aaron Levie: Uh, my work here is done and I got the value I needed outta this podcast Drinks.swyx: Yeah.Agent Governance and IdentityAaron Levie: But, but, um, but, but, you know, so the thing that we, we kind of think about is, um, is, you know, whether you think the number 10 x or a hundred x or whatever the number is, we're gonna have some order of magnitude more agents than people.That's inevitable. It has to happen. So then the question is, what is the infrastructure that's needed to make all those agents effective in the enterprise? Make sure that they are well governed. Make sure they're only doing [00:05:00] safe things on your information. Make sure that they're not getting exposed. The data that they shouldn't have access to.There's gonna be just incredibly spectacularly crazy security incidents that will happen with agents because you'll prompt, inject an agent and sort of find your way through the CRM system and pull out data that you shouldn't have access to. Oh, weJeff Huber: have God,Aaron Levie: right? I mean, that's just gonna happen all over the place, right?So, so then the thing is, is how do you make sure you have the right security, the permissions, the access controls, the data governance. Um, we actually don't yet exactly know in many cases how we're gonna regulate some of these agents, right? If you think about an agent in financial services, does it have the exact same financial sort of, uh, requirements that a human did?Or is it, is the risk fully on the human that was interacting or created the agent? All open questions, but no matter what, there's gonna need to be a layer that manages the, the data they have access to, the workflows that they're involved in, pulling up data from multiple systems. This is the new infrastructure opportunity in the era of agents.swyx: You have a piece on agent identities, [00:06:00] which I think was today, um, which I think a lot of breaking news, the security, security people are talking about, right? Like you basically, I, I always think of this as like, well you need the human you and then there you need the agent. YouAaron Levie: Yes.swyx: And uh, well, I don't know if it's that simple, but is box going to have an opinion on that or you're just gonna be like, well we're just the sort of the, the source layer.Yeah. Let's Okta of zero handle that.Aaron Levie: I think we're gonna have an opinion and we will work with generally wherever the contours of the market end up. Um, and the reason that we're gonna have an opinion more than other topics probably is because one of the biggest use cases for why your agent might need it, an identity is for file system access.So thus we have to kind of think about this pretty deeply. And I think, uh, unless you're like in our world thinking about this particular problem all day long, it might be, you know, like, why is this such a big deal? And the reason why it's a really big deal is because sometimes sort of say, well just give the agent an, an account on the system and it just treats, treat it like every other type of user on the system.The [00:07:00] problem is, is that I as Aaron don't really have any responsibility over anybody else's box account in our organization. I can't see the box account of any other employee that I work with. I am not liable for anything that they do. And they have, I have, I have, you know, strict privacy requirements on everything that they're able to, you know, that, that, that they work on.Agents don't have that, you know, don't have those properties. The person who creates the agent probably is gonna, for the foreseeable future, take on a lot of the liability of what that agent does. That agent doesn't deserve any privacy because, because it's, you know, it can't fully be autonomously operated and it doesn't have any legal, you know, kind of, you know, responsibility.So thus you can't just be like, oh, well I'll just create a bunch of accounts and then I'll, I'll kind of work with that agent and I'll talk to it occasionally. Like you need oversight of that. And so then the question is, how do you have a world where the agent, sometimes you have oversight of, but what if that agent goes and works with other people?That person over there is collaborating with the agent on something you shouldn't have [00:08:00] access to what they're doing. So we have all of these new boundaries that we're gonna have to figure out of, of, you know, it's really, really easy. So far we've been in, in easy mode. We've hit the easy button with ai, which is the agent just is you.And when you're in quad code and you're in cursor, and you're in Codex, you're just, the agent is you. You're offing into your services. It can do everything you can do. That's the easy mode. The hard mode is agents are kind of running on their own. People check in with them occasionally, they're doing things autonomously.How do you give them access to resources in the enterprise and not dramatically increased the security risk and the risk that you might expose the wrong thing to somebody. These are all the new problems that we have to get solved. I like the identity layer and, and identity vendors as being a solution to that, but we'll, we'll need some opinions as well because so many of the use cases are these collaborative file system use cases, which is how do I give it an agent, a subset of my data?Give it its own workspace as well. ‘cause it's gonna need to store off its own information that would be relevant for it. And how do I have the right oversight into that? [00:09:00]Jeff Huber: One thing, which, um, I think is kind interesting, think about is that you know, how humans work, right? Like I may not also just like give you access to the whole file.I might like sit next to you and like scroll to this like one part of the file and just show you that like one part and like, you know,swyx: partial file access.Jeff Huber: I'm just saying I think like our, like RA does seem to be dead, right? Like you wanna say something is dead uhhuh probably RA is dead. And uh, like the auth story to me seems like incredibly unsolved and unaddressed by like the existing state of like AI vendors.ButAaron Levie: yeah, I think, um, we're, I mean you're taking obviously really to level limit that we probably need to solve for. Yeah. And we built an access control system that was, was kind of like, you know, its own little world for, for a long time. And um, and the idea was this, it's a many to many collaboration system where I can give you any part of the file system.And it's a waterfall model. So if I give you higher up in the, in the, in the system, you get everything below. And that, that kind of created immense flexibility because I can kind of point you to any layer in the, in the tree, but then you're gonna get access to everything kind of below it. And that [00:10:00] mostly is, is working in this, in this world.But you do have to manage this issue, which is how do I create an agent that has access to some of my stuff and somebody else's stuff as well. Mm-hmm. And which parts do I get to look at as the creator of the agent? And, and these are just brand new problems? Yeah. Crazy. And humans, when there was a human there that was really easy to do.Like, like if the three of us were all sharing, there'd be a Venn diagram where we'd have an overlapping set of things we've shared, but then we'd have our own ways that we shared with each other. In an agent world, somebody needs to take responsibility for what that agent has access to and what they're working on.These are like the, some of the most probably, you know, boring problems for 98% of people on, on the internet, but they will be the problems that are the difference between can you actually have autonomous agents in an enterprise contextswyx: Yeah.Aaron Levie: That are not leaking your data constantly.swyx: No. Like, I mean, you know, I run a very, very small company for my conference and like we already have data sensitivity issues.Yes. And some of my team members cannot see Yes. Uh, the others and like, I can't imagine what it's like to run a Fortune 500 and like, you have to [00:11:00] worry about this. I'm just kinda curious, like you, you talked to a lot like, like 70, 80% of your cus uh, of the Fortune 500, your customers.Aaron Levie: Yep. 67%. Just so we're being verySEswyx: precise.So Yeah. I'm notAaron Levie: Okay. Okay.swyx: Something I'm rounding up. Yes. Round up. I'm projecting to, forAaron Levie: the government.swyx: I'm projecting to the end of the year.Aaron Levie: Okay.swyx: There you go.Aaron Levie: You do make it sound like, like we, we, well we've gotta be on this. Like we're, we're taking way too long to get to 80%. Well,swyx: no, I mean, so like. How are they approaching it?Right? Because you're, you don't have a, you don't have a final answer yet.Why Coding Agents Took Off FirstAaron Levie: Well, okay, so, so this is actually, this is the stark reality that like, unfortunately is the kinda like pouring the water on the party a little bit.swyx: Yes.Aaron Levie: We all in Silicon Valley are like, have the absolute best conditions possible for AI ever.And I think we all saw the dke, you know, kind of Dario podcast and this idea of AI coding. Why is that taken off? And, and we're not yet fully seeing it everywhere else. Well, look, if you just like enumerated the list of properties that AI coding has and then compared it to other [00:12:00] knowledge work, let's just, let's just go through a few of them.Generally speaking, you bring on a new engineer, they have access to a large swath of the code base. Like, there's like very, like you, just, like new engineer comes on, they can just go and find the, the, the stuff that they, they need to work with. It's a fully text in text out. Medium. It's only, it's just gonna be text at the end of the day.So it's like really great from a, from just a, uh, you know, kinda what the agent can work with. Obviously the models are super trained on that dataset. The labs themselves have a really strong, kind of self-reinforcing positive flywheel of why they need to do, you know, agent coding deeply. So then you get just better tooling, better services.The actual developers of the AI are daily users of the, of the thing that they're we're working on versus like the, you know, probably there's only like seven Claude Cowork legal plugin users at Anthropic any given day, but there's like a couple thousand Claude code and you know, users every single day.So just like, think about which one are they getting more feedback on. All day long. So you just go through this list. You have a, you know, everybody who's a [00:13:00] developer by definition is technical so they can go install the latest thing. We're all generally online, or at least, you know, kinda the weird ones are, and we're all talking to each other, sharing best practices, like that's like already eight differences.Versus the rest of the economy. Every other part of the economy has like, like six to seven headwinds relative to that list. You go into a company, you're a banker in financial services, you have access to like a, a tiny little subset of the total data that's gonna be relevant to do your job. And you're have to start to go and talk to a bunch of people to get the right data to do your job because Sally didn't add you to that deal room, you know, folder.And that that, you know, the information is actually in a completely different organization that you now have to go in and, and sort of run into. And it's like you have this endless list of access controls and security. As, as you talked about, you have a medium, which is not, it's not just text, right? You have, you have a zoom call that, that you're getting all of the requirements from the customer.You have a lot of in-person conversations and you're doing in-person sales and like how do you ever [00:14:00] digitize all of that information? Um, you know, I think a lot of people got upset with this idea that the code base has all the context, um, that I don't know if you follow, you know, did you follow some of that conversation that that went viral?Is like, you know, it's not that simple that, that the code base doesn't have all the knowledge, but like it's a lot, you're a lot better off than you are with other areas of knowledge work. Like you, we like, we like have documentation practices, you write specifications. Those things don't exist for like 80% of work that happens in the enterprise.That's the divide that we have, which is, which is AI coding has, has just fully, you know, where we've reached escape velocity of how powerful this stuff is, and then we're gonna have to find a way to bring that same energy and momentum, but to all these other areas of knowledge work. Where the tools aren't there, the data's not set up to be there.The access controls don't make it that easy. The context engineering is an incredibly hard problem because again, you have access control challenges, you have different data formats. You have end users that are gonna need to kind of be kind of trained through this as opposed to their adopting [00:15:00] these tools in their free time.That's where the Fortune 500 is. And so we, I think, you know, have to be prepared as an industry where we are gonna be on a multi-year march to, to be able to bring agents to the enterprise for these workflows. And I think probably the, the thing that we've learned most in coding that, that the rest of the world is not yet, I think ready for, I mean, we're, they'll, they'll have to be ready for it because it's just gonna inevitably happen is I think in coding.What, what's interesting is if you think about the practice of coding today versus two years ago. It's probably the most changed workflow in maybe the history of time from the amount of time it's changed, right? Yeah. Like, like has any, has any workflow in the entire economy changed that quickly in terms of the amount of change?I just, you know, at least in any knowledge worker workflow, there's like very rarely been an event where one piece of technology and work practice has so fundamentally, you know, changed, changed what you do. Like you don't write code, you talk to an agent and it goes and [00:16:00] does it for you, and you may be at best review it.And even that's even probably like, like largely not even what you're doing. What's happening is we are changing our work to make the agents effective. In that model, the agent didn't really adapt to how we work. We basically adapted to how the agent works. Mm-hmm. All of the economy has to go through that exact same evolution.The rest of the economy is gonna have to update its workflows to make agents effective. And to give agents the context that they need and to actually figure out what kind of prompting works and to figure out how do you ensure that the agent has the right access to information to be able to execute on its work.I, you know, this is not the panacea that people were hoping for, of the agent drops in, just automates your life. Like you have to basically re-engineer your workflow to get the most out of agents and, uh, and that, that's just gonna take, you know, multiple years across the economy. Right now it's a huge asset and an advantage for the teams that do it early and that are kinda wired into doing this.‘cause [00:17:00] you'll see compounding returns, but that's just gonna take a while for most companies to actually go and get this deployed.swyx: I love, I love pushing back. I think that. That is what a lot of technology consultants love to hear this sort of thing, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. First to, to embrace the ai. Yes. To get to the promised land, you must pay me so much money to a hundred percent to adopt the prescribed way of, uh, conforming to the agents.Yes. And I worry that you will be eclipsed by someone else who says, no, come as you are.Aaron Levie: Yeah.swyx: And we'll meet you where you are.Aaron Levie: And, and, and and what was the thing that went viral a week ago? OpenAI probably, uh, is hiring F Dees. Yeah. Uh, to go into the enterprise. Yeah. Yeah. And then philanthropic is embedded at Goldman Sachs.Yeah. So if the labs are having to do this, if, if the labs have decided that they need to hire FDE and professional services, then I think that's a pretty clear indication that this, there's no easy mode of workflow transformation. Yeah. Yeah. So, so to your point, I think actually this is a market opportunity for, you know, new professional services and consulting [00:18:00] firms that are like Agent Build and they, and they kind of, you know, go into organizations and they figure out how to re-engineer your workflows to make them more agent ready and get your data into the right format and, you know, reconstruct your business process.So you're, you're not doing most of the work. You're telling agents how to do the work and then you're reviewing it. But I haven't seen the thing that can just drop in and, and kinda let you not go through those changes.swyx: I don't know how that kind of sales pitch goes over. Yeah. You know, you're, you're saying things like, well, in my sort of nice beautiful walled garden, here's, there's, uh, because here's this, here's this beautiful box account that has everything.Yes. And I'm like, well, most, most real life is extremely messy. Sure. And like, poorly named and there duplicate this outdated s**tAaron Levie: a hundred percent. And so No, no, a hundred percent. And so this is actually No. So, so this is, I mean, we agree that, that getting to the beautiful garden is gonna be tough.swyx: Yeah.Aaron Levie: There's also the other end of the spectrum where I, I just like, it's a technical impossibility to solve. The agent is, is truly cannot get enough context to make the right decision in, in the, in the incredibly messy land. Like there's [00:19:00] no a GI that will solve that. So, so we're gonna have to kind of land in somewhere in between, which is like we all collectively get better at.Documentation practices and, and having authoritative relatively up-to-date information and putting it in the right place like agents will, will certainly cause us to be much better organized around how we work with our information, simply because the severity of the agent pulling the wrong data will be too high and the productivity gain of that you'll miss out on by not doing this will be too high as well, that you, that your competition will just do it and they'll just have higher velocity.So, uh, and, and we, we see this a lot firsthand. So we, we build a series of agents internally that they can kind of have access to your full box account and go off and you give it a task and it can go find whatever information you're looking for and work with. And, you know, thank God for the model progress, but like, if, if you gave that task to an agent.Nine months ago, you're just gonna get lots of bogus answers because it's gonna, it's gonna say, Hey, here's, here are fi [00:20:00] five, you know, documents that all kind of smell like the right thing. And I'm gonna, but I, but you're, you're putting me on the clock. ‘cause my assistant prompt says like, you know, be pretty smart, but also try and respond to the user and it's gonna respond.And it's like, ah, it got the wrong document. And then you do that once or twice as a knowledge worker and you're just neverswyx: again,Aaron Levie: never again. You're just like done with the system.swyx: Yeah. It doesn't work.Aaron Levie: It doesn't work. And so, you know, Opus four six and Gemini three one Pro and you know, whatever the latest five 3G BT will be, like, those things are getting better and better and it's using better judgment.And this sort of like the, all of these updates to the agentic tool and search systems are, are, we're seeing, we're seeing very real progress where the agent. Kind of can, can almost smell some things a little bit fishy when it's getting, you know, we, we have this process where we, we have it go fan out, do a bunch of searches, pull up a bunch of data, and then it has to sort of do its own ranking of, you know, what are the right documents that, that it should be working with.And again, like, you know, the intelligence level of a model six months ago, [00:21:00] it'd be just throwing a dart at like, I'm just, I'm gonna grab these seven files and I, I pray, I hope that that's the right answer. And something like an opus first four five, and now four six is like, oh, it's like, no, that one doesn't seem right relative to this question because I'm seeing some signal that is making that, you know, that's contradicting the document where it would normally be in the tree and who should have access.Like it's doing all of that kind of work for you. But like, it still doesn't work if you just have a total wasteland of data. Like, it's just not, it's just not possible. Partly ‘cause a human wouldn't even be able to do it. So basically if a, if a really, really smart human. Could not do that task in five or 10 minutes for a search retrieval type task.Look, you know, your agent's not gonna be able to do it any better. You see this all day long. SoContext Engineering and Search Limitsswyx: this touches on a thing that just passionate about it was just context engineering. I, I'm just gonna let you ramble or riff on, on context engineering. If, if, if there's anything like he, he did really good work on context fraud, which has really taken over as like the term that people use and the referenceAaron Levie: a hundred percent.We, we all we think about is, is the context rob problem. [00:22:00]Jeff Huber: Yeah, there's certainly a lot of like ranking considerations. Gentech surgery think is incredibly promising. Um, yeah, I was trying to generate a question though. I think I have a question right now. Swyx.Aaron Levie: Yeah, no, but like, like I think there was this moment, um, you know, like, I don't know, two years ago before, before we knew like where the, the gotchas were gonna be in ai and I think someone was like, was like, well, infinite context windows will just solve all of these problems and ‘cause you'll just, you'll just give the context window like all the data and.It's just like, okay, I mean, maybe in 2035, like this is a viable solution. First of all, it, it would just, it would just simply cost too much. Like we just can't give the model like the 5,000 documents that might be relevant and it's gonna read them all. And I've seen enough to, to start believing in crazy stuff.So like, I'm willing to just say, sure. Like in, in 10 years from now,swyx: never say, never, never.Aaron Levie: In, in 10 years from now, we'll have infinite context windows at, at a thousandth of the price of today. Like, let's just like believe that that's possible, but Right. We're in reality today. So today we have a context engineering [00:23:00] problem, which is, I got, I got, you know, 200,000 tokens that I can work with, or prob, I don't even know what the latest graph is before, like massive degradation.16. Okay. I have 60,000 tokens that I get to work with where I'm gonna get accurate information. That's not a lot of tokens for a corpus of 10 million documents that a knowledge worker might have across all of the teams and all the projects and all the people they work with. I have, I have 10 million documents.Which, you know, maybe is times five pages per document or something like that. I'm at 50 million pages of information and I have 60,000 tokens. Like, holy s**t. Yeah. This is like, how do I bridge the 50 million pages of information with, you know, the couple hundred that I get to work with in that, in that token window.Yeah. This is like, this is like such an interesting problem and that's why actually so much work is actually like, just like search systems and the databases and that layer has to just get so locked in, but models getting better and importantly [00:24:00] knowing when they've done a search, they found the wrong thing, they go back, they check their work, they, they find a way to balance sort of appeasing the user versus double checking.We have this one, we have this one test case where we ask the agent to go find. 10 pieces of information.swyx: Is this the complex work eval?Aaron Levie: Uh, this is actually not in the eval. This is, this is sort of just like we have a bunch of different, we have a bunch of internal benchmark kind of scenarios. Every time we, we update our agent, we have one, which is, I ask it to find all of our office addresses, and I give it the list of 10 offices that we have.And there's not one document that has this, maybe there should be, that would be a great example of the kind of thing that like maybe over time companies start to, you know, have these sort of like, what are the canonical, you know, kind of key areas of knowledge that we need to have. We don't seem to have this one document that says, here are all of our offices.We have a bunch of documents that have like, here's the New York office and whatever. So you task this agent and you, you get, you say, I need the addresses for these 10 offices. Okay. And by the way, if you do this on any, you know, [00:25:00] public chat model, the same outcome is gonna happen. But for a different kind of query, you give it, you say, I need these 10 addresses.How many times should the agent go and do its search before it decides whether or not, there's just no answer to this question. Often, and especially the, the, let's say lower tier models, it'll come back and it'll give you six of the 10 addresses. And it'll, and I'll just say I couldn't find the otherswyx: four.It, it doesn't know what It doesn't know. ItAaron Levie: doesn't know what It doesn't know. Yeah. So the model is just like, like when should it stop? When should it stop doing? Like should it, should it do that task for literally an hour and just keep cranking through? Maybe I actually made up an office location and it doesn't know that I made it up and I didn't even know that I made it up.Like, should it just keep, re should it read every single file in your entire box account until it, until it should exhaust every single piece of information.swyx: Expensive.Aaron Levie: These are the new problems that we have. So, you know, something like, let's say a new opus model is sort of like, okay, I'm gonna try these types of queries.I didn't get exactly what I wanted. I'm gonna try again. I'm gonna, at [00:26:00] some point I'm gonna stop searching. ‘cause I've determined that that no amount of searching is gonna solve this problem. I'm just not able to do it. And that judgment is like a really new thing that the model needs to be able to have.It's like, when should it give up on a task? ‘cause, ‘cause you just don't, it's a can't find the thing. That's the real world of knowledge, work problems. And this is the stuff that the coding agents don't have to deal with. Because they, it just doesn't like, like you're not usually asking it about, you're, you're always creating net new information coming right outta the model for the most part.Obviously it has to know about your code base and your specs and your documentation, but, but when you deploy an agent on all of your data that now you have all of these new problems that you're dealing withJeff Huber: our, uh, follow follow-up research to context ride is actually on a genetic search. Ah. Um, and we've like right, sort of stress tested like frontier models and their ability to search.Um, and they're not actually that good at searching. Right. Uh, so you're sort of highlighting this like explore, exploit.swyx: You're just say, Debbie, Donna say everything doesn't work. Like,Aaron Levie: well,Jeff Huber: somebody has to be,Aaron Levie: um, can I just throw out one more thing? Yeah. That is different from coding and, and the rest [00:27:00] of the knowledge work that I, I failed to mention.So one other kind of key point is, is that, you know, at the end of the day. Whether you believe we're in a slop apocalypse or, or whatever. At the end of the day, if you, if you build a working product at the end of, if you, if you've built a working solution that is ultimately what the customer is paying for, like whether I have a lot of slop, a little slop or whatever, I'm sure there's lots of code bases we could go into in enterprise software companies where it's like just crazy slop that humans did over a 20 year period, but the end customer just gets this little interface.They can, they can type into it, it does its thing. Knowledge work, uh, doesn't have that property. If I have an AI model, go generate a contract and I generate a contract 20 times and, you know, all 20 times it's just 3% different and like that I, that, that kind of lop introduces all new kinds of risk for my organization that the code version of that LOP didn't, didn't introduce.These are, and so like, so how do you constrain these models to just the part that you want [00:28:00] them to work on and just do the thing that you want them to do? And, and, you know, in engineering, we don't, you can't be disbarred as an engineer, but you could be disbarred as a lawyer. Like you can do the wrong medical thing In healthcare, you, there's no, there's no equivalent to that of engineering.Like, doswyx: you want there to be, because I've considered softwareJeff Huber: engineer. What's that? Civil engineering there is, right? NotAaron Levie: software civil engineer. Sure. Oh yeah, for sure. But like in any of our companies, you like, you know, you'll be forgiven if you took down the site and, and we, we will do a rollback and you'll, you'll be in a meeting, but you have not been disbarred as an engineer.We don't, we don't change your, you know, your computer science, uh, blameJeff Huber: degree, this postmortem.Aaron Levie: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So, so, uh, now maybe we collectively as an industry need to figure out like, what are you liable for? Not legally, but like in a, in a management sense, uh, of these agents. All sorts of interesting problems that, that, that, uh, that have to come out.But in knowledge work, that's the real hostile environments that we're operating in. Hmm.swyx: I do think like, uh, a lot of the last year's, 2025 story was the rise of coding agents and I think [00:29:00] 2026 story is definitely knowledge work agents. Yes. A hundredAaron Levie: percent.swyx: Right. Like that would, and I think open claw core work are just the beginning.Yes. Like it's, the next one's gonna just gonna be absolute craziness.Aaron Levie: It it is. And, and, uh, and it's gonna be, I mean, again, like this is gonna be this, this wave where we, we are gonna try and bring as many of the practices from coding because that, that will clearly be the forefront, which is tell an agent to go do something and has an access to a set of resources.You need to be responsible for reviewing it at the end of the process. That to me is the, is the kind of template that I just think goes across knowledge, work and odd. Cowork is a great example. Open Closet's a great example. You can kind of, sort of see what Codex could become over time. These are some, some really interesting kind of platforms that are emerging.swyx: Okay. Um, I wanted to, we touched on evals a little bit. You had, you had the report that you're gonna go bring up and then I was gonna go into like, uh, boxes, evals, but uh, go ahead. Talk about your genetic search thing.Jeff Huber: Yeah. Mostly I think kinda a few of the insights. It's like number one frontier model is not good at search.Humans have this [00:30:00] natural explore, exploit trade off where we kinda understand like when to stop doing something. Also, humans are pretty good at like forgetting actually, and like pruning their own context, whereas agents are not, and actually an agent in their kind of context history, if they knew something was bad and they even, you could see in the trace the reason you trace, Hey, that probably wasn't a good idea.If it's still in the trace, still in the context, they'll still do it again. Uhhuh. Uh, and so like, I think pruning is also gonna be like, really, it's already becoming a thing, right? But like, letting self prune the con windowsswyx: be a big deal. Yeah. So, so don't leave the mistake. Don't leave the mistake in there.Cut out the mistake but tell it that you made a mistake in the past and so it doesn't repeat it.Jeff Huber: Yeah. But like cut it out so it doesn't get like distracted by it again. ‘cause really, you know, what is so, so it will repeat its mistake just because it's been, it's inswyx: theJeff Huber: context. It'sAaron Levie: in the context so much.That's a few shot example. Even if it, yeah.Jeff Huber: It's like oh thisAaron Levie: is a great thing to go try even ifJeff Huber: it didn't work.Aaron Levie: Yeah,Jeff Huber: exactly.Aaron Levie: SoJeff Huber: there's like a bunch of stuff there. JustAaron Levie: Groundhogs Day inside these models. Yeah. I'm gonna go keep doing the same wrongJeff Huber: thing. Covering sense. I feel like, you know, some creator analogy you're trying like fit a manifold in latent space, which kind is doing break program synthesis, which is kinda one we think about we're doing right.Like, you know, certain [00:31:00] facts might be like sort of overly pitting it. There are certain, you know, sec sectors of latent space and so like plug clean space. Yeah. And, uh, andswyx: so we have a bell, our editor as a bell every time you say that. SoJeff Huber: you have, you have to like remove those, likeswyx: you shoulda a gong like TPN or something.IfJeff Huber: we gong, you either remove those links to like kinda give it the freedom, kind of do what you need to do. So, but yeah. We'll, we'll release more soon. That'sAaron Levie: awesome.Jeff Huber: That'll, that'll be cool.swyx: We're a cerebral podcast that people listen to us and, and sort of think really deep. So yeah, we try to keep it subtle.Okay. We try to keep it.Aaron Levie: Okay, fine.Inside Agent Evalsswyx: Um, you, you guys do, you guys do have EVs, you talked about your, your office thing, but, uh, you've been also promoting APEX agents and complex work. Uh, yeah, whatever you, wherever you wanna take this just Yeah. How youAaron Levie: Apex is, is obviously me, core's, uh, uh, kind of, um, agent eval.We, we supported that by sort of. Opening up some data for them around how we kind of see these, um, data workspaces in, in the, you know, kind of regular economy. So how do lawyers have a workspace? How do investment bankers have a workspace? What kind of data goes into those? And so we, [00:32:00] we partner with them on their, their apex eval.Our own, um, eval is, it's actually relatively straightforward. We have a, a set of, of documents in a, in a range of industries. We give the agent previously did this as a one shot test of just purely the model. And then we just realized we, we need to, based on where everything's going, it's just gotta be more agentic.So now it's a bit more of a test of both our harness and the model. And we have a rubric of a set of things that has to get right and we score it. Um, and you're just seeing, you know, these incredible jumps in almost every single model in its own family of, you know, opus four, um, you know, sonnet four six versus sonnet four five.swyx: Yeah. We have this up on screen.Aaron Levie: Okay, cool. So some, you're seeing it somewhere like. I, I forget the to, it was like 15 point jump, I think on the main, on the overall,swyx: yes.Aaron Levie: And it's just like, you know, these incredible leaps that, that are starting to happen. Um,swyx: and OP doesn't know any, like any, it's completely held out from op.Aaron Levie: This is not in any, there's no public data which has, you know, Ben benefits and this is just a private eval that we [00:33:00] do, and then we just happen to show it to, to the world. Hmm. So you can't, you can't train against it. And I think it's just as representative of. It's obviously reasoning capabilities, what it's doing at, at, you know, kind of test time, compute capabilities, thinking levels, all like the context rot issues.So many interesting, you know, kind of, uh, uh, capabilities that are, that are now improvingswyx: one sector that you have. That's interesting.Industries and Datasetsswyx: Uh, people are roughly familiar with healthcare and legal, but you have public sector in there.Aaron Levie: Yeah.swyx: Uh, what's that? Like, what, what, what is that?Aaron Levie: Yeah, and, and we actually test against, I dunno, maybe 10 industries.We, we end up usually just cutting a few that we think have interesting gains. All extras, won a lot of like government type documents. Um,swyx: what is that? What is it? Government type documents?Aaron Levie: Government filings. Like a taxswyx: return, likeAaron Levie: a probably not tax returns. It would be more of what would go the government be using, uh, as data.So, okay. Um, so think about research that, that type of, of, of data sets. And then we have financial services for things like data rooms and what would be in an investment prospectus. Uhhuh,swyx: that one you can dog food.Aaron Levie: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yes. Yes. [00:34:00] So, uh, so we, we run the models, um, in now, you know, more of an agent mode, but, but still with, with kinda limited capacity and just try and see like on a, like, for like basis, what are the improvements?And, and again, we just continue to be blown away by. How, how good these models are getting.swyx: Yeah, I mean, I think every serious AI company needs something like that where like, well, this is the work we do. Here's our company eval. Yeah. And if you don't have it, well, you're not a serious AI company.Aaron Levie: There's two dimensions, right?So there's, there's like, how are the models improving? And so which models should you either recommend a customer use, which one should you adopt? But then every single day, we're making changes to our agents. And you need to knowswyx: if you regressed,Aaron Levie: if you know. Yeah. You know, I've been fully convinced that the whole agent observability and eval space is gonna be a massive space.Um, super excited for what Braintrust is doing, excited for, you know, Lang Smith, all the things. And I think what you're going to, I mean, this is like every enter like literally every enterprise right now. It's like the AI companies are the customers of these tools. Every enterprise will have this. Yeah, you'll just [00:35:00] have to have an eval.Of all of your work and like, we'll, you'll have an eval of your RFP generation, you'll have an eval of your sales material creation. You'll have an eval of your, uh, invoice processing. And, and as you, you know, buy or use new agentic systems, you are gonna need to know like, what's the quality of your, of your pipeline.swyx: Yeah.Aaron Levie: Um, so huge, huge market with agent evals.swyx: Yeah.Building the Agent Teamswyx: And, and you know, I'm gonna shout out your, your team a bit, uh, your CTO, Ben, uh, did a great talk with us last year. Awesome. And he's gonna come back again. Oh, cool. For World's Fair.Aaron Levie: Yep.swyx: Just talk about your team, like brag a little bit. I think I, I think people take these eval numbers in pretty charts for granted, but No, there, I mean, there's, there's lots of really smart people at work during all this.Aaron Levie: Biggest shout out, uh, is we have a, we have a couple folks at Dya, uh, Sidarth, uh, that, that kind of run this. They're like a, you know, kind of tag tag team duo on our evals, Ben, our CTO, heavily involved Yasha, head of ai, uh, you know, a bunch of folks. And, um, evals is one part of the story. And then just like the full, you know, kind of AI.An agent team [00:36:00] is, uh, is a, is a pretty, you know, is core to this whole effort. So there's probably, I don't know, like maybe a few dozen people that are like the epicenter. And then you just have like layers and layers of, of kind of concentric circles of okay, then there's a search team that supports them and an infrastructure team that supports them.And it's starting to ripple through the entire company. But there's that kind of core agent team, um, that's a pretty, pretty close, uh, close knit group.swyx: The search team is separate from the infra team.Aaron Levie: I mean, we have like every, every layer of the stack we have to kind of do, except for just pure public cloud.Um, but um, you know, we, we store, I don't even know what our public numbers are in, you know, but like, you can just think about it as like a lot of data is, is stored in box. And so we have, and you have every layer of the, of the stack of, you know, how do you manage the data, the file system, the metadata system, the search system, just all of those components.And then they all are having to understand that now you've got this new customer. Which is the agent, and they've been building for two types of customers in the past. They've been building for users and they've been building for like applications. [00:37:00] And now you've got this new agent user, and it comes in with a difference of it, of property sometimes, like, hey, maybe sometimes we should do embeddings, an embedding based, you know, kind of search versus, you know, your, your typical semantic search.Like, it's just like you have to build the, the capabilities to support all of this. And we're testing stuff, throwing things away, something doesn't work and, and not relevant. It's like just, you know, total chaos. But all of those teams are supporting the agent team that is kind of coming up with its requirements of what, what do we need?swyx: Yeah. No, uh, we just came from, uh, fireside chat where you did, and you, you talked about how you're doing this. It's, it's kind of like an internal startup. Yeah. Within the broader company. The broader company's like 3000 people. Yeah. But you know, there's, there's a, this is a core team of like, well, here's the innovation center.Aaron Levie: Yeah.swyx: And like that every company kind of is run this way.Aaron Levie: Yeah. I wanna be sensitive. I don't call it the innovation center. Yeah. Only because I think everybody has to do innovation. Um, there, there's a part of the, the, the company that is, is sort of do or die for the agent wave.swyx: Yeah.Aaron Levie: And it only happens to be more of my focus simply because it's existential that [00:38:00] we get it right.swyx: Yeah.Aaron Levie: All of the supporting systems are necessary. All of the surrounding adjacent capabilities are necessary. Like the only reason we get to be a platform where you'd run an agent is because we have a security feature or a compliance feature, or a governance feature that, that some team is working on.But that's not gonna be the make or break of, of whether we get agents right. Like that already exists and we need to keep innovating there. I don't know what the right, exact precise number is, but it's not a thousand people and it's not 10 people. There's a number of people that are like the, the kind of like, you know, startup within the company that are the make or break on everything related to AI agents, you know, leveraging our platform and letting you work with your data.And that's where I spend a lot of my time, and Ben and Yosh and Diego and Teri, you know, these are just, you know, people that, that, you know, kind of across the team. Are working.swyx: Yeah. Amazing.Read Write Agent WorkflowsJeff Huber: How do you, how do you think about, I mean, you talked a lot about like kinda read workflows over your box data. Yep.Right. You know, gen search questions, queries, et cetera. But like, what about like, write or like authoring workflows?Aaron Levie: Yes. I've [00:39:00] already probably revealed too much actually now that I think about it. So, um, I've talked about whatever,Jeff Huber: whatever you can.Aaron Levie: Okay. It's just us. It's just us. Yeah. Okay. Of course, of course.So I, I guess I would just, uh, I'll make it a little bit conceptual, uh, because again, I've already, I've already said things that are not even ga but, but we've, we've kinda like danced around it publicly, so I, yeah, yeah. Okay. Just like, hopefully nobody watches this, um, episode. No.swyx: It's tidbits for the Heidi engaged to go figure out like what exactly, um, you know, is, is your sort of line of thinking.Sure. They can connect the dots.Aaron Levie: Yeah. So, so I would say that, that, uh, we, you know, as a, as a place where you have your enterprise content, there's a use case where I want to, you know, have an agent read that data and answer questions for me. And then there's a use case where I want the agent to create something.And use the file system to create something or store off data that it's working on, or be able to have, you know, various files that it's writing to about the work it's doing. So we do see it as a total read write. The harder problem has so far been the read only because, because again, you have that kind of like 10 [00:40:00] million to one ratio problem, whereas rights are a lot of, that's just gonna come from the model and, and we just like, we'll just put it in the file system and kinda use it.So it's a little bit of a technically easier problem, but the only part that's like, not necessarily technically hard, it is just like it's not yet perfected in the state of the ecosystem is, you know, building a beautiful PowerPoint presentation. It's still a hard problem for these models. Like, like we still, you know, like, like these formats are just, we're not built for.They'reswyx: working on it.Aaron Levie: They're, they're working on it. Everybody's working on it.swyx: Every launch is like, well, we do PowerPoint now.Aaron Levie: We're getting, yeah, getting a lot, getting a lot of better each time. But then you'll do this thing where you'll ask the update one slide and all of a sudden, like the fonts will be just like a little bit different, you know, on two of the slides, or it moved, you know, some shape over to the left a little bit.And again, these are the kind of things that, like in code, obviously you could really care about if you really care about, you know, how beautiful is the code, but at the end, user doesn't notice all those problems and file creation, the end user instantly sees it. You're [00:41:00] like, ah, like paragraph three, like, you literally just changed the font on me.Like it's a totally different font and like midway through the document. Mm-hmm. Those are the kind of things that you run into a lot of in the, in the content creation side. So, mm-hmm. We are gonna have native agents. That do all of those things, they'll be powered by the leading kind of models and labs.But the thing that I think is, is probably gonna be a much bigger idea over time is any agent on any system, again, using Box as a file system for its work, and in that kind of scenario, we don't necessarily care what it's putting in the file system. It could put its memory files, it could put its, you know, specification, you know, documents.It could put, you know, whatever its markdown files are, or it could, you know, generate PDFs. It's just like, it's a workspace that is, is sort of sandboxed off for its work. People can collaborate into it, it can share with other people. And, and so we, we were thinking a lot about what's the right, you know, kind of way to, to deliver that at scale.Docs Graphs and Founder Modeswyx: I wanted to come into sort of the sort of AI transformation or AI sort of, uh, operations things. [00:42:00] Um, one of the tweets that you, that you wanted to talk about, this is just me going through your tweets, by the way. Oh, okay. I mean, like, this is, you readAaron Levie: one by one,swyx: you're the, you're the easiest guest to prep for because you, you already have like, this is the, this is what I'm interested in.I'm like, okay, well, areAaron Levie: we gonna get to like, like February, January or something? Where are we in the, in the timelines? How far back are we going?swyx: Can you, can you describe boxes? A set of skills? Right? Like that, that's like, that's like one of the extremes of like, well if you, you just turn everything into a markdown file.Yeah. Then your agent can run your company. Uh, like you just have to write, find the right sequence of words toAaron Levie: Yes.swyx: To do it.Aaron Levie: Sorry, isthatswyx: the question? So I think the question is like, what if we documented everything? Yes. The way that you exactly said like,Aaron Levie: yes.swyx: Um, let's get all the Fortune five hundreds, uh, prepared for agents.Yes. And like, you know, everything's in golden and, and nicely filed away and everything. Yes. What's missing? Like, what's left, right? LikeAaron Levie: Yeah.swyx: You've, you've run your company for a decade. LikeAaron Levie: Yeah. I think the challenge is that, that that information changes a week later. And because something happened in the market for that [00:43:00] customer, or us as a company that now has to go get updated, and so these systems are living and breathing and they have to experience reality and updates to reality, which right now is probably gonna be humans, you know, kinda giving those, giving them the updates.And, you know, there is this piece about context graphs as as, uh, that kinda went very viral. Yeah. And I, I, I was like a, i, I, I thought it was super provocative. I agreed with many parts of it. I disagree with a few parts around. You know, it's not gonna be as easy as as just if we just had the agent traces, then we can finally do that work because there's just like, there's so much more other stuff that that's happening that, that we haven't been able to capture and digitize.And I think they actually represented that in the piece to be clear. But like there's just a lot of work, you know, that that has to, you just can't have only skills files, you know, for your company because it's just gonna be like, there's gonna be a lot of other stuff that happens. Yeah. Change over time.Yeah. Most companies are practically apprenticeships.swyx: Most companies are practically apprenticeships. LikeJeff Huber: every new employee who joins the team, [00:44:00] like you span one to three months. Like ramping them up.Aaron Levie: Yes. AllJeff Huber: that tat knowledgeAaron Levie: isJeff Huber: not written down.Aaron Levie: Yes.Jeff Huber: But like, it would have to be if you wanted to like give it to an Asian.Right. And so like that seems to me like to beAaron Levie: one is I think you're gonna see again a premium on companies that can document this. Mm-hmm. Much. There'll be a huge premium on that because, because you know, can you shorten that three month ramp cycle to a two week ramp cycle? That's an instant productivity gain.Can you re dramatically reduce rework in the organization because you've documented where all the stuff is and where the answers are. Can you make your average employee as good as your 90th percentile employee because you've captured the knowledge that's sort of in the heads of, of those top employees and make that available.So like you can see some very clear productivity benefits. Mm-hmm. If you had a company culture of making sure you know your information was captured, digitized, put in a format that was agent ready and then made available to agents to work with, and then you just, again, have this reality of like add a 10,000 person [00:45:00] company.Mapping that to the, you know, access structure of the company is just a hard problem. Is like, is like, yeah, well, you just, not every piece of information that's digitized can be shared to everybody. And so now you have to organize that in a way that actually works. There was a pretty good piece, um, this, this, uh, this piece called your company as a file is a file system.I, did you see that one?swyx: Nope.Aaron Levie: Uh, yes. You saw it. Yeah. And, and, uh, I actually be curious your thoughts on it. Um, like, like an interesting kind of like, we, we agree with it because, because that's how we see the world and, uh,swyx: okay. We, we have it up on screen. Oh,Aaron Levie: okay. Yeah. But, but it's all about basically like, you know, we've already, we, we, we already organized in this kind of like, you know, permission structure way.Uh, and, and these are the kind of, you know, natural ways that, that agents can now work with data. So it's kind of like this, this, you know, kind of interesting metaphor, but I do think companies will have to start to think about how they start to digitize more, more of that data. What was your take?Jeff Huber: Yeah, I mean, like the company's probably like an acid compliant file system.Aaron Levie: Uh,Jeff Huber: yeah. Which I'm guessing boxes, right? So, yeah. Yes.swyx: Yeah. [00:46:00]Jeff Huber: Which you have a great piece on, but,swyx: uh, yeah. Well, uh, I, I, my, my, my direction is a little bit like, I wanna rewind a little bit to the graph word you said that there, that's a magic trigger word for us. I always ask what's your take on knowledge graphs?Yeah. Uh, ‘cause every, especially at every data database person, I just wanna see what they think. There's been knowledge graphs, hype cycles, and you've seen it all. So.Aaron Levie: Hmm. I actually am not the expert in knowledge graphs, so, so that you might need toswyx: research, you don't need to be an expert. Yeah. I think it's just like, well, how, how seriously do people take it?Yeah. Like, is is, is there a lot of potential in the, in the HOVI?Aaron Levie: Uh, well, can I, can I, uh, understand first if it's, um, is this a loaded question in the sense of are you super pro, super con, super anti medium? Iswyx: see pro, I see pros and cons. Okay. Uh, but I, I think your opinion should be independent of mine.Aaron Levie: Yeah. No, no, totally. Yeah. I just want to see what I'm stepping into.swyx: No, I know. It's a, and it's a huge trigger word for a lot of people out Yeah. In our audience. And they're, they're trying to figure out why is that? Because whyAaron Levie: is this such aswyx: hot item for them? Because a lot of people get graph religion.And they're like, everything's a graph. Of course you have to represent it as a graph. Well, [00:47:00] how do you solve your knowledge? Um, changing over time? Well, it's a graph.Aaron Levie: Yeah.swyx: And, and I think there, there's that line of work and then there's, there's a lot of people who are like, well, you don't need it. And both are right.Aaron Levie: Yeah. And what do the people who say you don't need it, what are theyswyx: arguing for Mark down files. Oh, sure, sure. Simplicity.Aaron Levie: Yeah.swyx: Versus it's, it's structure versus less structure. Right. That's, that's all what it is. I do.Aaron Levie: I think the tricky thing is, um, is, is again, when this gets met with real humans, they're just going to their computer.They're just working with some people on Slack or teams. They're just sharing some data through a collaborative file system and Google Docs or Box or whatever. I certainly like the vision of most, most knowledge graph, you know, kind of futuristic kind of ways of thinking about it. Uh, it's just like, you know, it's 2026.We haven't seen it yet. Kind of play out as as, I mean, I remember. Do you remember the, um, in like, actually I don't, I don't even know how old you guys are, but I'll for, for to show my age. I remember 17 years ago, everybody thought enterprises would just run on [00:48:00] Wikis. Yeah. And, uh, confluence and, and not even, I mean, confluence actually took off for engineering for sure.Like unquestionably. But like, this was like everything would be in the w. And I think based on our, uh, our, uh, general style of, of, of what we were building, like we were just like, I don't know, people just like wanna workspace. They're gonna collaborate with other people.swyx: Exactly. Yeah. So you were, you were anti-knowledge graph.Aaron Levie: Not anti, not anti. Soswyx: not nonAaron Levie: I'm not, I'm not anti. ‘cause I think, I think your search system, I just think these are two systems that probably, but like, I'm, I'm not in any religious war. I don't want to be in anybody's YouTube comments on this. There's not a fight for me.swyx: We, we love YouTube comments. We're, we're, we're get into comments.Aaron Levie: Okay. Uh, but like, but I, I, it's mostly just a virtue of what we built. Yeah. And we just continued down that path. Yeah.swyx: Yeah.Aaron Levie: And, um, and that, that was what we pursued. But I'm not, this is not a, you know, kind of, this is not a, uh, it'sswyx: not existential for you. Great.Aaron Levie: We're happy to plug into somebody else's graph.We're happy to feed data into it. We're happy for [00:49:00] agents to, to talk to multiple systems. Not, not our fight.swyx: Yeah.Aaron Levie: But I need your answer. Yeah. Graphs or nerd Snipes is very effective nerd.swyx: See this is, this is one, one opinion and then I've,Jeff Huber: and I think that the actual graph structure is emergent in the mind of the agent.Ah, in the same way it is in the mind of the human. And that's a more powerful graph ‘cause it actually involved over time.swyx: So don't tell me how to graph. I'll, I'll figure it out myself. Exactly. Okay. All right. AndJeff Huber: what's yours?swyx: I like the, the Wiki approach. Uh, my, I'm actually

In this episode, Lex chats with Yoshi Yokokawa, CEO of Alpaca — a brokerage infrastructure company that provides API-based trading and custody services to fintechs and developers globally. The conversation begins with their shared experience at Lehman Brothers during the 2008 financial crisis, where Yoshi worked in fixed income securitization and learned that even when market participants sense a bubble, they keep dancing because timing the exit is impossible. After Lehman's collapse, Yoshi pursued entrepreneurship, building a computer vision AI company acquired by Kyocera before founding Alpaca in 2017. Initially inspired by Robinhood, Yoshi pivoted after experiencing firsthand the friction of accessing brokerage infrastructure—realizing the deeper opportunity was building API-first brokerage rails for developers. Today Alpaca powers 9 million accounts through 300+ partners across 45 countries, recently raising $150 million at a unicorn valuation. The discussion explores how Alpaca follows Robinhood's product roadmap to anticipate partner demand, the challenges of adding crypto, and Yoshi's thesis that finance is undergoing a generational shift from digital to on-chain operations. Lex shares examples of legacy infrastructure dysfunction—from faxing PDFs to TD Ameritrade in 2012 to the Synapse collapse caused by manual CSV uploads—illustrating why Alpaca built its own custody and ledger systems as a path to competing in the $350 trillion global securities custody market. NOTABLE DISCUSSION POINTS: Alpaca's biggest breakthrough was not a better investing app idea, but recognizing that the real bottleneck was brokerage infrastructure. Yokokawa and team initially explored B2C product concepts, but pivoted once they experienced firsthand how painful broker-dealer setup, custody, and clearing integrations were. For readers building fintech, this is a huge lesson: the highest-value opportunity is often the “invisible” infrastructure pain, not the user-facing feature set. They found product-market fit by starting with a narrow wedge (API for automated traders) and only then expanding into a broader platform (Broker API for fintech apps). Alpaca did not begin by serving large fintechs; it first attracted power users who urgently needed programmable execution, then used inbound demand (“can I build my own Robinhood?”) as proof to build account opening, reporting, and full brokerage APIs. This is a valuable go-to-market pattern for infrastructure startups: win with a sharp use case, then expand into the system of record. Yokokawa's core strategic edge is full-stack control of licenses, memberships, and ledger technology rather than relying on legacy vendors. He explicitly ties this to lessons from historical fintech fragility (manual workflows, broken reconciliations, middleware failures) and argues that owning the custody/clearing layer is what makes Alpaca defensible long term. For readers, this is the key takeaway on moat-building in financial services: if you don't control the ledger and operational core, your product may scale faster at first but remains structurally fragile. TOPICS Alpaca, Lehman Brothers, Barclays, Nomura, Neuberger Berman, Blackrock, Robinhood, Interactive Brokers, TD Ameritrade, BNY Mellon, Brokerage infrastructure, API, trading, tokenization, embedded finance, fintech, crypto, web3   ABOUT THE FINTECH BLUEPRINT

Live from the GNE Mainstage: GSMA's Henry Calvert explores how standardized network APIs, quality on demand, and fixed-mobile orchestration are turning connectivity into a monetizable platform. As AI scales, application-led connectivity and cross-industry collaboration become essential to delivering real enterprise value.  In this Executives at the Edge episode from the GNE Mainstage, Henry Calvert of GSMA... Read More The post APIs, Agents, and Monetization: Enter the B2B2Agent Era  appeared first on Mplify.

In this episode of Between Product and Partnerships, Biljana Pecelj joins Cristina Flaschen to explain how smaller teams successfully ship integrations with larger platform partners. She makes the case that leveraging usage data and performance metrics is the key to proving your integration's value, giving you the necessary influence to move up a major partner's priority list.Biljana shares lessons from her experience managing integrations at Hootsuite during major platform shifts, including the rise of Instagram Business APIs and the emergence of new features like Stories that didn't always come with immediate API support. She also details the process of aligning internal stakeholders to ensure integration features actually ship despite shifting external APIs.The conversation also covers the operational side of integrations, this includes why observability needs to be built early, how teams detect silent failures before customers do, and how to structure internal alignment when integration work touches engineering, legal, partnerships, and revenue.Who we sat down withBiljana Pecelj is a Principal Product Manager at Ledgy with deep experience building integrations inside platform-heavy environments. She has worked extensively on partnership-driven product initiatives where execution speed depends on navigating both technical constraints and external partner relationships.Biljana brings expertise in:Building integrations in environments where APIs and features evolve asynchronouslyDesigning for observability and proactive monitoringNavigating asymmetric partner relationshipsAligning roadmap priorities across product, partnerships, legal, and engineeringManaging tradeoffs between beta opportunities and engineering capacityKey TopicsWhy integration product work is relationship workTechnical execution matters, but alignment with partners determines whether integrations actually ship and scale.Building in ecosystems you don't controlAPIs change. Features launch without endpoints. Roadmaps shift. Successful teams anticipate uncertainty rather than assume stability.The importance of observability from day oneSilent failures are common in integrations. Without monitoring, teams often learn about outages from customers instead of systems.Roadmap tradeoffs when beta opportunities ariseNew partner features can require immediate shifts in engineering priorities. Negotiation and resource reallocation become core product skills.M&A and integration complexityBrand consolidation rarely means backend integration. Teams often inherit layered systems that remain technically independent long after acquisition.Episode Highlights01:55 – How integration product management differs from core product work04:40 – Navigating power imbalances with large platform partners07:15 – Using data to strengthen partner conversations10:30 – Building observability when resources are limited13:45 – Handling silent integration failures17:50 – Managing beta features and roadmap shifts21:30 – Aligning cross-functional teams around integration priorities24:45 – Why relationships accelerate integration execution28:10 – Lessons learned from building inside platform ecosystems--For more insights on partnerships, ecosystems, and integrations, visit www.pandium.com

Today, we are continuing our series, entitled Developer Chats - hearing from the large scale system builders themselves.In this episode, we are talking with Oleksandr Piekhota, Principal Software Engineer at Teaching Strategies. Oleksandr helps to show us at what point of scale platform approaches are required, when to run experiments and when to stop, and perhaps more importantly - engineering ownership beyond the code.QuestionsYou've moved from hands-on engineering into principal and technical leadership roles, working on architecture and platforms.At what point did you realize your work was no longer about individual features, but about the system as a wholeAcross several projects, growth didn't break functionality — it exposed architectural limits.Can you recall a moment when it became clear that shipping more features wouldn't solve the problem, and a platform approach was required?You've designed and supported APIs end-to-end, from architecture to real customers. How do you distinguish between an API that simply works and one that can truly support business scale?Internal systems like invoicing and HR workflows began as automation, but evolved into real products.What tells you that an internal tool is worth developing seriously rather than treating as a temporary workaround?In R&D, you explored CI/CD automation, server-less, and infrastructure experiments — not all reached production. How do you decide when an experiment should continue, and when it's no longer worth the engineering cost?You've hired teams, set standards, and shaped long-term technical direction. At what point does an engineer stop being a contributor and start owning business-level outcomes?You contributed to open-source tools that later became part of your company's infrastructure. Why do you see open source contributions as part of serious engineering work rather than a side activity?Looking across your projects, how do you now recognize a truly mature engineering system? Is it code quality, process, or how teams respond when things go wrong?If we look five to seven years into the future, which architectural assumptions we treat as “standard” today are most likely to turn out to be naive or limiting?SponsorsIncogniLinkshttps://www.linkedin.com/in/oleksandr-piekhota-b675ba53/https://teachingstrategies.com/Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/codestory/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Marc Brooker, VP and Distinguished Engineer at AWS, joins host Kanchan Shringi to explore specification-driven development as a scalable alternative to prompt-by-prompt "vibe coding" in AI-assisted software engineering. Marc explains how accelerating code generation shifts the bottleneck to requirements, design, testing, and validation, making explicit specifications the central artifact for maintaining quality and velocity over time. He describes how specifications can guide both code generation and automated testing, including property-based testing, enabling teams to catch regressions earlier and reason about behavior without relying on line-by-line code review. The conversation examines how spec-driven development fits into modern SDLC practices; how AI agents can support design, code review, documentation, and testing; and why managing context is now one of the hardest problems in agentic development. Marc shares examples from AWS, including building drivers and cloud services using this approach, and discusses the role of modularity, APIs, and strong typing in making both humans and AI more effective. The episode concludes with guidance on rollout, evaluation metrics, cultural readiness, and why AI-driven development shifts the engineer's role toward problem definition, system design, and long-term maintainability rather than raw code production. Brought to you by IEEE Computer Society and IEEE Software magazine.

Get 90 days of Fellow free at Fellow.ai/coo In this episode, Michael Koenig speaks with Greg Keller, co-founder and CTO of JumpCloud, about identity access management and why it's becoming one of the most important operational systems in the age of AI. Greg explains how traditional identity systems were designed for office-based companies running Microsoft infrastructure and why that model broke as companies moved to SaaS, cloud infrastructure, and remote work. The discussion then turns to the next big shift: the rise of AI agents and synthetic identities inside organizations. As companies deploy more AI tools, the number of machine identities may soon outnumber human employees. Managing what those systems can access will become a critical security and operational challenge.   Topics Covered What a CTO actually does Greg explains the different types of CTO roles and how technology leaders help companies anticipate where the market is headed. Identity Access Management explained simply IAM answers three core questions inside every company: Who are you? What can you access? How is that access managed?   Why the old IT model broke Traditional identity systems were built for on-premise offices and Microsoft infrastructure. Modern companies now operate across: SaaS applications cloud infrastructure remote work environments multiple operating systems How JumpCloud approaches identity JumpCloud was built to manage identity across devices, applications, and infrastructure regardless of platform. Where Okta fits in the ecosystem Okta helped modernize browser-based authentication through Single Sign-On, while JumpCloud focuses on broader identity infrastructure.   AI, Security, and Synthetic Identities Why COOs should push AI adoption Greg argues AI adoption is no longer optional. Companies must encourage teams to improve productivity and efficiency using AI.   The rise of synthetic identities AI agents, bots, APIs, and service accounts are becoming new actors inside companies that require identity governance.   Bots may soon outnumber employees Organizations will soon manage more machine identities than human ones.   AI as a potential insider threat AI systems can become security risks if they are granted excessive permissions or misinterpret policies.   The API key governance problem Many AI integrations rely on API keys, which are often poorly managed and can create hidden security risks.   Key Takeaway As companies adopt AI, identity access management becomes the control layer that determines what both humans and machines are allowed to do inside the organization. The companies that manage identity well will move faster and operate more securely.   Links: Michael on LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/michael-koenig514 Greg on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregorykeller/ JumpCloud: https://jumpcloud.com/ Between Two COO's: https://betweentwocoos.com Episode Link: https://betweentwocoos.com/ai-agents-identity-access-greg-keller

In this episode, we debrief the second annual Heatpunk Summit from the legendary Hashtub in Denver. We recap how builders from HVAC, hydronics, and home mining came together to advance hashrate heating—complete with live hardware demos, workshops, and a brutally constructive critique of our boiler setup from a pro hydronics engineer. We dig into galvanic corrosion gotchas, smarter system design, and why practical, hands-on education is the real unlock for bringing Bitcoin miners back into homes and businesses as useful heaters.We also break down the big development with Canaan's openness to support the home-mining and heat reuse market, what a “willing partner” ASIC manufacturer could mean for decentralization, and how small improvements—docs, APIs, and integrations—can catalyze a whole ecosystem. From workshop highlights (Home Assistant control, hydronics integration, open-source mining OS, and regulatory/insurance insights) to the industry's AI pivots and the investability of open source, this is a high-signal builder's recap with clear next steps and renewed momentum for hashrate heating.

In this engaging episode of MSP Business School, host Brian Doyle sits down with Shane Naugher, a pioneering figure in the world of AI and automation for MSPs. The discussion takes a deep dive into the real-world application of AI, focusing on how it can be utilized to streamline operations and deliver tangible ROI for businesses. Whether you're curious about how AI fits into your MSP strategy or eager to learn about automation opportunities, this episode delivers practical insights into what Shane calls the "mature business model" of MSPs. As the conversation unfolds, Shane shares his dual expertise as the CEO of DaZZee IT Services and founder of Innovative Automations, offering a rare glimpse into the intersection of AI, automation, and managed services. The episode explores the challenges of integrating AI into everyday business operations, shedding light on how AI-enabled automations can transform traditional processes, particularly in professional services and industries reliant on legacy systems. Shane shares valuable experiences and success stories, highlighting key automation opportunities and the significance of partnering with trusted AI advisors to navigate the rapidly evolving tech landscape. Key Takeaways: Practical AI Application: Understanding the difference between shiny AI tools and meaningful automation that drives business outcomes. Industry-Specific Automation: How different sectors, particularly professional services, can benefit from AI to achieve significant ROI. The Role of APIs: Leveraging open APIs and traditional RPA platforms for connecting disparate business applications and optimizing workflows. Partnership Model: The importance of MSPs partnering with AI and automation specialists to provide comprehensive client solutions. Strategic AI Conversations: Encouraging MSPs to lead AI integration discussions with clients to maintain a competitive edge. Guest Name: Shane Naugher LinkedIn page: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shanenaugher/ Company: Innovative Automations / DaZZee IT Website: https://innovativeautomations.ai/ / https://dazzee.com/ Show Website: https://mspbusinessschool.com/ Host Brian Doyle: https://www.linkedin.com/in/briandoylevciotoolbox/ Sponsor vCIOToolbox: https://vciotoolbox.com  

What if innovation is not about moving faster, but moving with purpose? In this episode of Innovators Inside, Ian Bergman sits down with Dr. Hisham Alasad, head of innovation enablement at Qatar Airways, to unpack a human-first view of innovation shaped by fintech, academia, and a bold move to Qatar. They break down what open banking really changes, why banks fight it, and how open finance could unlock better, cheaper products for consumers. Then they go deeper: why innovation requires overcoming fear, why closed systems stall progress, and what a “Responsible Innovation” framework could look like that is ethical, inclusive, scalable, and beneficial beyond the balance sheet. They close with a big vision: using AI to help create opportunity and peace in the Middle East.Topics & Timestamps

Wes and Scott talk about building v_framer, Scott's custom multi-source video recording app, and why Electron beat Tauri and native APIs for the job. They dig into MKV vs WebM, crash-proof recording, licensing with Stripe and Keygen, auto-updates, and the real challenges of shipping a polished desktop app. Show Notes 00:00 Welcome to Syntax! March MadCSS 02:28 Why screen recording apps are so frustrating 07:14 The requirements behind Scott's app, v_framer 09:47 Tauri, WKWebView, and blurry screen recording headaches 13:00 Why switching to Electron was a game changer 14:02 Electrobun and the hybrid desktop experiment 16:29 Browser-based capture vs native APIs 18:50 Brought to you by Sentry.io 22:32 Notarization, certificates, and shipping a Mac app 24:52 One-time purchases, trials, and selling desktop software 26:37 Self-hosting Keygen for license keys 30:27 A scrappy Google Sheets-powered waitlist 31:56 Keyboard shortcuts, FPS locks, and app customization 34:50 CI/CD and painless auto-updates with Electron Hit us up on Socials! Syntax: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Wes: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Scott: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Randy: X Instagram YouTube Threads

Show DescriptionWe talk with Frederik Braun from Mozilla about the Sanitizer API, how it works with HTML tags and web components, what it does with malformed HTML, and where CSP fits in alongside the Sanitizer API. Listen on WebsiteWatch on YouTubeGuestsFrederik BraunGuest's Main URL • Guest's SocialSecurity engineer and manager working on the Mozilla Firefox web browser Links Frederik Braun: Why the Sanitizer API is just setHTML() Frederik Braun freddyb (Frederik B) SponsorsBluehostDo you ever feel like pre-configured hosting is slowing you down? That is where VPS hosting starts to make a lot more sense. With Bluehost VPS, you are not stuck inside someone else's environment. You get full control of the server. You can spin up Docker, deploy containerized apps, run workflows, and connect your CRM, databases, and APIs without weird restrictions. No shared bottlenecks. No artificial limits. If you want to actually own your stack, your data, your performance, your roadmap, VPS is the move.

In this episode of the Wharton FinTech Podcast, Bobby Ma sits down with Kyle Mack, CEO & Co-Founder of Middesk, a Series B company. Kyle shares his experience building Middesk, the leading business identify platform modernizing business verification, risk evaluation, and compliance. Its fast, frictionless APIs support KYB, credit assessment, and tax registration use cases, with data updated in days, not months. More than 500 customers trust Middesk to verify, underwrite, and grow with confidence. The company has raised over $70 million in funding and is backed by top-tier investors including Accel, Sequoia, and Insight Partners. We discuss: - Kyle's journey building Middesk starting from developing proprietary data pipelines to creating a leading business identity platform - The value proposition of KYB and how it is fundamentally more complex than KYC - How Middesk serves and plugs into its customers' decisioning workflows -The future of business identity as it evolves with AI and other technology trends

What if public health agencies could access better, faster, and more complete data without giving up control? In this episode, we sit down with Dr. Jen Layden, senior vice president of population and innovation at ASTHO, to explore the new Public Health Data Consortium and what it means for the future of public health decision-making.  Dr. Layden explains how this unique public–private partnership is designed to improve data access, quality, and analytics while keeping governance firmly in the hands of state and territorial health agencies. She discusses why mortality data is a critical starting point, how emerging technologies like APIs and advanced analytics can help close long-standing data gaps, and what new insights could come from linking public health data with sources like pharmacy, claims, and real-world data.Leadership Power Hour: Your Launchpad for Impact | ASTHO

I am thrilled to welcome Marenza Altieri Douglas, an executive in sales and technology.  She's trained in structured enterprise environments, start ups, and is steeped in opening new markets and building commercial enterprise.  That's not going to be our focus today, instead we talk about how she is an incredible storyteller, rooted in concepts like disruption and cultivation.  Her personal story is key to the narrative, and I was thrilled she is joining us to share that story and how she ties it all together, leading and operating in the current business climate.  Marenza Altieri Douglas' career sits at the intersection of technology evangelism and disciplined execution. Trained in structured, enterprise environments and refined in startups and scale-ups, she specializes in defining strategic direction, opening new markets, and building compelling commercial propositions for enterprise and C-suite customers across Fortune 500 and Global 5000 organizations.  She has worked across and alongside technologies including Conversational and Generative AI, APIs, DevOps, open-source platforms, cloud and containerized architectures, enterprise mobility, security, communications, media and broadcast, telecoms, and digital platforms. AI is a natural evolution of this journey, alongside a strong strategic interest in GPU-enabled infrastructure and quantum technologies.  Marenza is known for building high-trust relationships, spotting and growing talent, and connecting product, engineering, and commercial teams around clear outcomes. A natural storyteller and facilitator, I enjoy shaping narratives that help organizations and customers understand why a technology matters, not just what it does.(4:50) We delve into Marenza's formative years that put her on her current path. She shares her personal and professional story.  (17:18) When did Marenza realized that “disruption” and challenging things become a part of her brand?  (22:38) What does Marenza feel are some of the important qualities that people should embody?  (28:20) Marenza shares how she focuses on the future and the next generation.  (39:16) We reflect on what Marenza would like her impact to be over the next couple of years.Connect with Marenza Altieri-Douglashttps://www.linkedin.com/in/marenza/    Subscribe: Warriors At Work PodcastsWebsite: https://jeaniecoomber.comFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/986666321719033/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jeanie_coomber/Twitter: https://twitter.com/jeanie_coomberLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeanie-coomber-90973b4/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbMZ2HyNNyPoeCSqKClBC_w

Host: Annik Sobing Guest: Kenneth G. Peters Published: February 2026 Length: ~20 minutes Presented by: Global Training Center GTM Software Prep: Don't Install Until You've Done These 3 Things First In this Simply Trade Roundup, Annik talks with Kenneth G. Peters, President at MIC US and Director of Commercial Operations in North America, about Global Trade Management (GTM) software—specifically, what trade teams must do before implementation to avoid creating “digital chaos.” Ken shares real talk from his ATCC presentation on data cleanup, process mapping, and testing, plus why “cleaning your data like you're hosting the in-laws” is now his signature advice. Shoutout to Alison for the killer slides.​ What You'll Learn in This Episode Ken's new grandpa status (the little guy is 7 months old—congrats!) and why it's the “next step in life” that keeps him energized for trade tech.​ The #1 mistake companies make with GTM software Data cleanup first: Don't dump junk into GTM. Scrub inactive vendors, obsolete parts, invalid HS codes (like 111111 or all zeros). Clean it like you're hosting the in-laws—no mess allowed. Why: GTM amplifies what you give it. Bad data in = faster mistakes out.​ Avoid the “Big Bang” implementation trap Don't try to do everything at once (denied party screening + classification + FTA rules + solicitation). Start small: Classification (builds the foundation—parts, HS codes, values). Denied party screening (uses your vendor/part data). FTA analysis (relies on classification/HS from step 1). Why: Master data dependencies mean you build once and reuse everywhere.​ Processes over pixels GTM won't fix broken workflows. Map your processes before going live. If your current setup is emailing Excel files between systems, you're not automating—you're digitizing chaos. True automation: ERP ↔ GTM via SFTP, APIs, XML—no human hands on keyboards. Reduces errors, speeds everything up.​ Who owns what after go‑live MIC US (GTM provider): Manages the software backend—reg updates, HS databases, platform maintenance. Your team: Owns the process (classification, entry creation, decision‑making). Someone still reviews outputs for accuracy. No “managed services” from MIC—GTM is a tool, not a full‑service outsource.​ Testing: where most implementations fail Allocate real time and resources to testing—don't rush it. Test end‑to‑end: data flow, workflows, edge cases. Why: Skipped or rushed testing = live problems that cost more to fix later.​ “If your systems are emailing Excel files to each other, you're not automating” Ken's golden rule: Hands‑off data flow (ERP → GTM) eliminates errors. Excel handoffs = manual errors waiting to happen.​ Key Takeaways Clean data first: Active parts, valid HS, no ghosts—GTM makes good data shine and bad data explode.​ Start small, build smart: Classification → screening → FTA, not “big bang everything.”​ Fix processes before pixels: GTM won't save broken workflows; it speeds them up.​ Testing = non‑negotiable: Rushed testing = expensive live fixes.​ GTM is a force multiplier—if your foundation is solid.​ Credits Host: Annik Sobing Guest: Kenneth G. Peters, President, MIC US Producer: Annik Sobing  Listen & Subscribe Simply Trade main page: https://simplytrade.podbean.com​ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/simply-trade/id1640329690​ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/09m199JO6fuNumbcrHTkGq​ Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/8de7d7fa-38e0-41b2-bad3-b8a3c5dc4cda/simply-trade​ Connect with Simply Trade Podcast page: https://www.globaltrainingcenter.com/simply-trade-podcast​ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/simply-trade-podcast​ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@SimplyTradePod​ Join the Trade Geeks Community Trade Geeks (by Global Training Center): https://globaltrainingcenter.com/trade-geeks/  

John V, AI risk, safety, and security at the Institute for Security and Technology (IST), joins Defender Fridays today. John's work spans AI red teaming, adversarial machine learning, AI evals and validation, and AI risk assessment, including policy work at the intersection of AGI and nuclear strategic stability. Learn more at https://securityandtechnology.org/Register for Live SessionsJoin us every Friday at 10:30am PT for live, interactive discussions with industry experts. Whether you're a seasoned professional or just curious about the field, these sessions offer an engaging dialogue between our guests, hosts, and you – our audience.Register here: https://limacharlie.io/defender-fridaysSubscribe to our YouTube channel and hit the notification bell to never miss a live session or catch up on past episodes!Sponsored by LimaCharlieThis episode is brought to you by LimaCharlie, a cloud-native SecOps platform where AI agents operate security infrastructure directly. Founded in 2018, LimaCharlie provides complete API coverage across detection, response, automation, and telemetry, with multi-tenant architecture designed for MSSPs and MDR providers managing thousands of unique client environments.Why LimaCharlie?Transparency: Complete visibility into every action and decision. No black boxes, no vendor lock-in.Scalability: Security operations that scale like infrastructure, not like procurement cycles. Move at cloud speed.Unopinionated Design: Integrate the tools you need, not just those contracts allow. Build security on your terms.Agentic SecOps Workspace (ASW): AI agents that operate alongside your team with observable, auditable actions through the same APIs human analysts use.Security Primitives: Composable building blocks that endure as tools come and go. Build once, evolve continuously.Try the Agentic SecOps Workspace free: https://limacharlie.ioLearn more: https://docs.limacharlie.ioFollow LimaCharlieSign up for free: https://limacharlie.ioLinkedIn: / limacharlieio X: https://x.com/limacharlieioCommunity Discourse: https://community.limacharlie.com/Host: Maxime Lamothe-Brassard - CEO / Co-founder at LimaCharlie

In this episode of The Ross Simmonds Show, Ross breaks down the so-called “SaaSpocalypse” after $1 trillion in SaaS market cap vanished in a single week. While headlines scream that “AI will replace SaaS,” Ross argues the reality is far more nuanced. He introduces a three-part framework ; Exposed, Embedded, Evolved , and outlines the strategic shifts founders and marketers must make to survive and compound in the age of AI agents. Key Takeaways and Insights: 1. The $1 Trillion Wake-Up Call -SaaS stocks were crushed in early 2026, triggering fear across markets. -AI agents, LLM advancements, and disappointing earnings accelerated the correction. -The dominant narrative says AI will replace SaaS , but the situation is more complex. -Market fear is loud. Structural change is quieter, but very real. 2.AI Agents, Vibe Coding & the Death of Per-Seat Pricing? -AI agents interacting directly with APIs challenge traditional SaaS interfaces. -“Vibe coding” demonstrates how quickly software can now be replicated. -Per-seat pricing models are under pressure as automation scales output. -The interface is shifting from dashboards to conversations. 3.The Data Reality Most People Ignore -Global SaaS spending is projected to grow from $318B (2025) to $500B+ (2028). -Enterprise contracts and deep dependencies don't disappear overnight. -Pricing models may change. Market leaders may change. -Software demand isn't vanishing, it's evolving. 4.The Extinction Stack: Exposed, Embedded, Evolved -SaaS companies fall into three survival tiers. -Not all SaaS companies face equal risk. -Your future depends on depth of integration and data moat. -Operators must identify where they sit, now. 5.Type 1: The Exposed -Horizontal point solutions with weak moats and low switching costs. -Easily replicated with AI tools in days or weeks. -Rely on habit rather than proprietary advantage. -Most vulnerable to margin compression and churn. 6.Type 2: The Embedded -Deeply integrated systems of record inside enterprises. -Painful and complex to replace due to migration risk. -The risk isn't extinction ,it's interface disruption. -Must become AI-first before agents abstract them away. 7. Type 3: The Evolved -AI-native or aggressively AI-integrated platforms. -Built on proprietary data, regulatory moats, and deep user memory. -AI increases the value of their data advantage. -Positioned not just to survive, but accelerate. 8.Distribution Is the New Defensive Moat -AI can replicate features. It cannot replicate trust. -Brand equity, audience relationships, and distribution compound. -As product development gets cheaper, distribution becomes the advantage. -This is the moment to double down on quality and amplification. 9.From Time-Based to Outcome-Based Thinking -Per-seat and time-based pricing models face structural pressure. -The future favors outcome-driven pricing and accountability. -Buyers will demand measurable impact, not access. -Service businesses must shift from hours sold to results delivered. 10. Intentional AI vs Fear-Based AI -Two types of teams are emerging: intentional adopters and reactive adopters. -AI without process creates noise, not leverage. -10,000 mediocre AI assets won't move the needle. -10 strategic, AI-enabled assets can change a business trajectory. —

In this episode of Scene from Above, Julia Wagemann speaks with Matthias Mohr, independent software developer and one of the key contributors to the STAC (SpatioTemporal Asset Catalog) and STAC API specifications.   STAC has become foundational to how Earth observation data is discovered and accessed across cloud platforms. But its origins lie in a fragmented landscape of portals, inconsistent metadata, and incompatible APIs. Matthias shares how STAC emerged from practical needs within the community and how it evolved into a widely adopted standard for geospatial data discovery.   Together, Julia and Matthias unpack: Why STAC was created and what problem it solved The difference between static STAC catalogues and STAC APIs How organisations struggle when adopting STAC internally The role of extensions and interoperability Where cloud-native geospatial infrastructure may head next   A thoughtful conversation for anyone working with large-scale Earth observation data, from analysts querying data, to engineers publishing catalogues, to decision-makers shaping data infrastructure.   Host: Julia Wagemann Guest: Matthias Mohr

Send a textStablecoin yield doesn't have to mean complexity, counterparty mystery, or a leap of faith. We sit down with Jeff Handler, co‑founder and CCO of OpenTrade, to unpack how enterprise‑grade infrastructure turns on‑chain dollars into real returns, why tokenization only matters when it solves a user's problem, and how crypto‑native strategies like delta neutral Solana staking can deliver yield without riding the market's mood swings.Jeff walks us through his journey from early Bitcoin wallets to USDC's formative years, then into building a platform that looks more like SaaS than a protocol. We dig into the operations hiding behind clean APIs: bank‑grade asset management, reporting, and legal structures that meet treasury standards. If you've wondered how fintechs, exchanges, and neobanks can keep funds on chain while accessing money market exposure or hedged staking strategies, this is the blueprint.We also get practical about adoption. Trust is earned through credible investors and counterparties, but it's cemented with enforceable contracts, account controls, and bankruptcy‑aware structures. For product teams, the takeaway is clear: avoid vanity metrics, pursue product‑market fit, and accept that real usage trails real utility. On regulation, Jeff advocates a proven path—operate responsibly under existing laws, engage policymakers, and keep shipping rather than waiting for a perfect rulebook.To close, we explore how embedded yield becomes a retention and growth engine. With configurable terms, rates, and minimums, teams can shape offerings to reduce churn or boost balances while keeping a “stablecoins in, stablecoins out” experience. If you're building in fintech or web3 and need a clear, compliant, and scalable way to deliver yield, this conversation will sharpen your roadmap. Enjoy the episode, then subscribe, share with a teammate, and leave a quick review so others can find it too.This episode was recorded through a Descript call on January 30, 2026. Read the blog article and show notes here: https://webdrie.net/stablecoin-yield-without-the-headache..........................................................................

Episode 300 is a milestone we never imagined when we hit record for the first time in 2018 at 470 Claims, which was acquired by Alacrity Solutions. Seven years later, Rob and Lee sit down to reflect on how FNO: InsureTech began, how it evolved, and what has surprised us most along the way. In this special episode, we talk through the genesis of the podcast and how a simple idea turned into hundreds of conversations across insurance and insuretech. We reflect on the consistency, curiosity, and commitment it took to keep showing up week after week, and how the journey shaped us as hosts. Key Highlights • [3:19] The genesis of FNO: InsureTech and how the podcast started in 2018 • [9:03] The unexpected relationships and networking that grew from the show • [25:42] How insuretech conversations evolved from APIs to AI • [29:36] The industry shifts between 2018 and 2025 that quietly changed startup thinking • [31:09] Reflections on seven years of recording and the plans ahead We are grateful to everyone who has listened, shared, or joined us as a guest, and to our sponsor Alacrity Solutions for supporting us all these years. Cheers to the next 100!

Dylan and Max sit down with Aaron, Software Architect at Airplane Manager, to talk business aviation ops tech and where AI is headed. If you're running lean (two pilots, one tail, no dispatcher), this is the roadmap for reducing busywork without losing operational control. They dig into integrations, offline trip tools, and why "apps" might just become background APIs. Listen in and subscribe for more pilot-to-pilot ops talk. Check out the software Dylan and Max both use to run their departments: Airplane Manager Show Notes 0:00 Intro 2:01 Airplane Manager Overview 11:07 App, AI, and Security 21:08 Flight Operations Efficiency 36:18 Evolving Best Practices with Tech 49:39 Final Thoughts Our Sponsors Tim Pope, CFP® — Tim is both a CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER™ and a pilot. His practice specializes in aviation professionals and aviation 401k plans, helping clients pursue their financial goals by defining them, optimizing resources, and monitoring progress. Click here to learn more. Also check out The Pilot's Portfolio Podcast. Advanced Aircrew Academy — Enables flight operations to fulfill their training needs in the most efficient and affordable way—anywhere, at any time. They provide high-quality training for professional pilots, flight attendants, flight coordinators, maintenance, and line service teams, all delivered via a world-class online system. Click here to learn more. Raven Careers — Helping your career take flight. Raven Careers supports professional pilots with resume prep, interview strategy, and long-term career planning. Whether you're a CFI eyeing your first regional, a captain debating your upgrade path, or a legacy hopeful refining your application, their one-on-one coaching and insider knowledge give you a real advantage. Click here to learn more. The AirComp Calculator™ is business aviation's only online compensation analysis system. It can provide precise compensation ranges for 14 business aviation positions in six aircraft classes at over 50 locations throughout the United States in seconds. Click here to learn more. Vaerus Jet Sales — Vaerus means right, true, and real. Buy or sell an aircraft the right way, with a true partner to make your dream of flight real. Connect with Brooks at Vaerus Jet Sales or learn more about their DC-3 Referral Program. Harvey Watt — Offers the only true Loss of Medical License Insurance available to individuals and small groups. Because Harvey Watt manages most airlines' plans, they can assist you in identifying the right coverage to supplement your airline's plan. Many buy coverage to supplement the loss of retirement benefits while grounded. Click here to learn more. VSL ACE Guide — Your all-in-one pilot training resource. Includes the most up-to-date Airman Certification Standards (ACS) and Practical Test Standards (PTS) for Private, Instrument, Commercial, ATP, CFI, and CFII. 21.Five listeners get a discount on the guide—click here to learn more. ProPilotWorld.com — The premier information and networking resource for professional pilots. Click here to learn more.   Feedback & Contact Have feedback, suggestions, or a great aviation story to share? Email us at info@21fivepodcast.com. Check out our Instagram feed @21FivePodcast for more great content (and our collection of aviation license plates). The statements made in this show are our own opinions and do not reflect, nor were they under any direction of any of our employers.

The host of episode 108 of Venture Everywhere is Harm-Julian Schumacher, co-founder and CEO of OneLot, a financing platform for used car dealers in the Philippines. He talks with Reto Bolliger, co-founder and CEO of Chaiz, an online marketplace for extended vehicle warranties. Reto shares how climbing Kilimanjaro led him to build a travel company, and how an investor in that business introduced him to the surprisingly profitable world of extended car warranties. He discusses how Chaiz challenges the industry consensus that warranties “must be sold” through aggressive tactics, instead building trust through transparency and offering consumers prices up to 40% cheaper than dealerships.In this episode, you will hear:Building the first online marketplace to compare and buy extended car warranties.Offering dealership products at 40% lower prices through digital channels.Replacing aggressive sales tactics with transparency and education.Leveraging AI for customer support and AI search optimization.Embedding warranty APIs for cross-selling through partner platforms.​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Learn more about Reto Bolliger | ChaizLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/reto-bolligerWebsite: https://www.chaiz.comLearn more about Harm-Julian Schumacher | OneLotLinkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/harm-julian-schumacherWebsite: https://www.onelot.ph

Michael Truell, CEO of Cursor, sits down with Patrick Collison, CEO of Stripe and an investor in Anysphere, to talk about Collison's history with Smalltalk and Lisp, the MongoDB and Ruby decisions Stripe still lives with 15 years later, why he'd spend even more time on API design if he could do it over, and whether AI is actually showing up in economic productivity data. This episode originally aired on Cursor's podcast.   Resources:  Follow Patrick Collison on X:   https://twitter.com/patrickc Follow Michael Truell on X: https://twitter.com/mntruell Follow Cursor: https://www.youtube.com/@cursor_ai Stay Updated:Find a16z on YouTube: YouTubeFind a16z on XFind a16z on LinkedInListen to the a16z Show on SpotifyListen to the a16z Show on Apple PodcastsFollow our host: https://twitter.com/eriktorenberg Please note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details please see a16z.com/disclosures. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Have you ever wondered why "compliance" still gets treated like a slow, spreadsheet-heavy chore, even though the rest of the business is moving at machine speed? In this episode of Tech Talks Daily, I sit down with Matt Hillary, Chief Information Security Officer at Drata, to talk about what actually changes when AI and automation land in the middle of governance, risk, and compliance. Matt brings a rare viewpoint because he lives this day-to-day as "customer zero," running Drata internally while also leading IT, security, GRC, and enterprise apps. We get practical fast. Matt shares how AI-assisted questionnaire workflows can turn a 120-question security assessment from a late-afternoon time sink into something you can complete with confidence in minutes, then still make it upstairs in time for dinner. He also explains how automation flips the audit dynamic by moving from random sampling to continuous, full-population checks, using APIs to validate evidence at scale, without hounding control owners unless something is actually wrong. We also talk about what security leadership really looks like when the stakes rise. Matt reflects on lessons from his time at AWS, why curiosity and adaptability matter when the "canvas" keeps changing, and how customer focus becomes the foundation of trust. That theme runs through the whole conversation, including the idea that the CISO role is steadily turning into a chief trust officer role, where integrity, transparency, and credibility under pressure matter as much as tooling. And because burnout is never far away in security, we dig into the human side too. Matt unpacks how automation can reduce cognitive load, but also warns about swapping one kind of pressure for another, especially when teams get trapped producing endless dashboards and vanity metrics instead of focusing on the few measures that actually reduce risk. To wrap things up, Matt leaves a song for the playlist, Illenium's "You're Alive," plus a book recommendation, "Lessons from the Front Lines, Insights from a Cybersecurity Career" by Asaf Karen, which he says stands out for how it treats the human side of security leadership. If you're thinking about modernizing compliance in 2026 without losing the human element, his parting principle is simple and powerful: be intentional, keep asking why, and spend your limited time on what truly matters. So where do you land on this shift toward continuous trust, do you see it becoming the default expectation for buyers and auditors, and what should leaders do now to make sure automation reduces pressure instead of quietly adding more? Share your thoughts with me, I'd love to hear how you're approaching it.

There's a lethal trifecta of AI risks: access to private data, exposure to untrusted content, and external communication. In this conversation, Risky Business host Patrick Gray chats with Josh Devon, the co-founder of Sondera, about how to best address these risks. There is no magic solution to this problem. AI models mix code and data, are non-deterministic, and are crawling around all over your enterprise data and APIs as you read this. But in this sponsored interview, Josh outlines how we can start to wrap our hands around the problem. This episode is also available on Youtube. Show notes

Scott and Wes unpack WebMCP, a new standard that lets AI interact with websites through structured tools instead of slow, bot-style clicking. They demo it, debate imperative vs declarative APIs, and share their hottest take: this might be the web's real AI moment. Show Notes 00:00 Welcome to Syntax! 00:16 Introduction to WebMCP 01:07 Understanding WebMCP Functionality. 03:06 Interacting with AI through WebMCP. 06:49 WebMCP browser integration. 08:25 Brought to you by Sentry.io. 08:49 Benefits of WebMCP. 11:51 Token efficiency. 13:02 My biggest questions. 14:13 My take on this tech. Hit us up on Socials! Syntax: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Wes: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Scott: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Randy: X Instagram YouTube Threads