Breathing Wind

“We need to stay open to this very natural response to how we experience the big losses changes in our lives. And if we can do that — it doesn't come at once, it doesn't come in big ahas — but there there is transformation, and there's healing and wisdom and creative inspiration and new perspectives. There's so much that we have access to that we may never be moved by or never encounter if we avoid or shut down our grief.” ~ Naila FrancisIn this farewell episode, Sarah and Naila revisit the emotionally rich journey of their podcast, celebrating the support and community that has been built. They share poignant clips from past episodes, including conversations with guests like Benjamin Gunning, Lennon Flowers, and Naila Francis, reflecting on themes of grief, resilience, and creativity. As they pass the torch to new potential host Julia Mark, they discuss their future creative endeavors and express deep gratitude to their listeners. The episode emphasizes the importance of allowing grief to be a shared, evolving conversation.Show notesMentioned in this episode:Episode 2: Never Alone with Benjamin GunningEpisode 13: The Space to Be Messy with Lennon Flowers Naila's first appearance on the podcast, interviewed by Deborah SzetoEpisode 77: Honoring the Full Range of Grief with Rosemerry Wahtola TrommerEpisode 82: Surfer Dan Fischer is Shaping an Active Grief Memorial through One Last Wave ProjectEpisode 84: Love is the Mother of Grief with Nnenna FreelonEpisode 68: The Possibility of Pleasure with Oceana SawyerSeason 2 Trailer: What is Healing?Season 3 Trailer: What is Joy?Throwing the Bones with Dr. JoAnne Dodgson This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.breathingwind.com

“I've been very present to the fact that there have been these huge, huge joys. But every time I meet a huge joy, it just drops me deeper into the grief, which is part of what I always say about grief. The more you open yourself to the joy, the more you open yourself to the grief and vice versa. So that kind of feels like where my journey has been this summer.” ~ Naila Francis In this episode, inspired by our conversation with grief activist, author and podcast host Lisa Keefauver, we reflect on where our journeys have taken us these last few months, including the grief we're both living with. As we invite you into these personal experiences, we share the ways grief continues to surprise and teach us — and how challenging it can be to lean into those lessons that come ‘round again and again. Given all the wisdom Lisa shared with us from her new book, “Grief is A Sneaky Bitch” (also the title of her podcast) in the previous episode, we also explore some of the threads that most resonated with us, especially the value of seeking support, which can be tricky to do when you're the one often giving it. We're so grateful for Lisa's work challenging conventional narratives around grief. And we invite you to consider the narratives you hold around loss, how they might be impacting you and how you care for yourself and others in times of grief.  To find out more about this episode, listen to the episodes referenced, and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes.

“So if our narrative understood that it's emotional and cognitive and physical and spiritual and relational, how might we attend to ourselves differently?  How might we attend to other people in our lives differently? How, if we believed it as a culture, would we institute policies and systems that attended to grief differently?” - Lisa Keefauver In this episode, we talk with Lisa Keefauver, grief activist, author and podcast host of “Grief is a Sneaky Bitch,” about grief as a multidimensional experience that encompasses more than death and more than our emotions. With compelling insight, compassionate warmth, the truth of her own lived experience and her background as a narrative therapist, Lisa shines a light on some of the stories, beliefs and habits that cause us more suffering as we grieve — while also offering tips and suggestions to help soften grief's hard edges. She talks about the vulnerability and bravery of inviting in support and candidly shares her own struggles with receiving care. In fact, Lisa is nothing but candid throughout this entire episode, as she reflects on grieving and being grateful for her late husband Eric, her journey with breast cancer and what grief has taught her about living a fuller, richer life. You'll probably want to listen with a journal or come back to this episode again, as, with fall right  around the corner, it feels like a timely roadmap to help us all navigate this human experience with more grace for ourselves.  To find out more about this episode, listen to the episodes referenced, and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes.

“As a death midwife, one of the things many of us do is work on legacy projects with people who are dying and their loved ones, and yet sometimes I think it's really not up to us to know what our legacy is. I can hope it will be this particular thing, but at the end of the day, the people we leave behind are the ones really making the meaning and interpreting our lives for us.” ~Naila Francis Welcome to our celebratory 100th episode of the Breathing Wind Podcast, where we reflect on some of the recurring themes around grief that have shaped the podcast since it began. We revisit key moments in conversations with a handful of guests that touch on navigating life transitions with openness, the intersection of grief and joy and what it means to leave behind a legacy. As we share from our own grief journeys, we note how challenging it can be to embody emotional self-awareness, the surprising parts of ourselves that show up in the midst of profound change, and whether it's truly possible to know the impact we leave behind. We do know, however, that this podcast has created a virtual community, and we remain grateful for you, listeners, as well as the growth we've experienced, and the future of our shared journey. To find out more about this episode, listen to the episodes referenced, and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes.  

“I think some of the clearest decisions I've ever made have come in the aftermath of grief.” ~Naila Francis In this episode, we look back on our enchanting and insightful conversation with Mara June, an educator, facilitator, community weaver, writer, caregiver, death doula and community herbalist. Reflecting on her deep belief in the creative energy inherent in grieving, we discuss grief's transformative power in our lives and some of the ways we've been creatively called to change how we show up in the world. For Sarah, that included re-evaluating her career and the work she was doing, and for Naila, transformation came in waves affecting many areas of her life. As we've done across several episodes, we circle back to the presence of joy as part of grief and in particular how grief opens us up to feel more alive by giving us access to the full range of our emotions. We also acknowledge, with gratitude to Mara for naming this, numbness as part of grieving, and explore the idea of bringing tenderness and beauty to death, even in challenging circumstances, as Naila was able to do at her dad's deathbed, and as Sarah has continued to do by nurturing a connection that was meaningful to her own father. We hope this conversation invites you to make a little more room for your grief and to be gentle with all the changes your journey may be calling you to. As always, we'd love to hear what moved or resonated with you, and we thank you for allowing us to be companions on your journey. To find out more about this episode, listen to the episodes referenced, and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes.

"In allowing ourselves to feel our grief, or to feel present with whatever is coming up for us — not excluding our joy —  that's actually helping us to feel more deeply in all of these areas in our life. And I think that is part of the enchantment piece for me...When we feel more deeply, then we can also feel enchantment and wonder and awe and all of these other things as well." ~ Mara June In this episode, death doula, community herbalist, educator and writer Mara June invites us to consider the ways grief calls us to change who we are and how we move in the world. Framing this “undoing” as liberating, they share grief's potential to make us magicians, opening us up to mystery and wonder and bringing us more alive. We also talk about their own journey with grief and loss, how they came to community death care, and how we can bring moments of beauty and tenderness to the end of life. Noting that we have never grieved alone, Mara speaks to the wise and nourishing role of plants in tending our grief, introducing us to some of their favorites. (Hint: if you're not into chamomile, you will be after listening!). And of course, we couldn't leave this conversation without talking about their spells and their deeply affirming memes and social media posts, which you'll definitely want to check out for yourself. We learned so much in this conversation and also shared some sweet moments with Mara when she turned the mic on us. May it inspire you, too, on your shapeshifting journey through grief.  To find out more about this episode, listen to the episodes referenced, and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes.  

In this episode, inspired by our powerful conversation with communal grief tender and song circle leader, Alexandra “Ahlay” Blakeley, we discuss our own experiences with song circles and how they impacted us — as well our thoughts on community grief spaces in general, and how grief support is so much broader than the stereotypical basement circle for story sharing that people are used to. We share our “safe” places to cry and reflect on the varied responses we receive to working in the grief space — Naila with her workshops and classes and Sarah when she tells people she co-hosts a podcast about grief. Our dads also make an appearance when we start talking about what our beloveds leave behind, and what we do with their “stuff.” And there's that prophetic dream thread that we just couldn't ignore after Ahlay shared two incredibly vivid dreams with us in our conversation with her. Have you ever had a dream that's informed your path? We'd love to hear it or anything else that strikes a resonant note with you from our time together. To find out more about this episode, listen to the episodes referenced, and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes.

“I believe that community singing, which I define as, when a group of folks come together and they sing songs together that are easy enough lyrically and easy enough melodically to be taught in the moment. And then we sing these songs, which I personally call spells or prayers together that are amplified and help put us in some sort of altered state through the process of singing these songs, it's a technology for  belonging. It's a technology for metabolizing grief.” ~ Alexandra Blakely (AKA ahlay) From the moment she dropped into our opening invitation to a deep breath, with an admitted mix of tension in her body and openness in her heart,  artist, singer-songwriter, communal grief tender and community organizer Alexandra "Ahlay" Blakely took us on an unforgettable journey. In this profound and inspiring conversation, we touch on the nuances and complexities of navigating this tumultuous time in the world and how songs can help us move our grief through our bodies in a way the mind can't and doesn't have to understand. In reframing communal singing as our inherent birthright, she speaks to the shame many of us have around our singing voices, shares the sense of belonging found in song circles and how songs can be spells casting an impact far beyond immediate time and place. In sharing her journey from backup pop singer to activist to ritual and community song circle facilitator, Ahlay proves a compelling storyteller — you won't want to miss the dream she shares about whales, among so many other moments in this episode, including when she and Naila discover their profound affinity for whales has more in common than they could have imagined.  To find out more about this episode, listen to the episodes referenced, and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes.

“When I was on the Camino, there was this moment when I was spreading [my dad's] ashes and just talking to him and I realized that was why I was there,  that he wanted me there. And I felt so connected to him, and at that time I remember thinking, ‘This is so simple. I can turn off everything and go out for a walk in the woods and be connected with my dad.'” ~ Sarah Davis In this episode, recorded during the holiday season, we debrief our Christmases: how we spent them, how our grief showed up and how we coped, or didn't. Reflecting on our conversation with author and plant ecologist Susan Tweit, who still finds so many beautiful ways to be with her late husband Richard, we recall instances of connection with our own dads — and in a very candid moment, reveal some of the moments along our fathers' end-of-life journeys, exploring some of our regrets and our denial. Again drawing from Susan's wisdom and devoted mindfulness practice, we also look at the role of love and compassion in our lives, and Sarah shares an especially helpful technique that helps her to meet her mom from that place when she gets overwhelmed or starts to feel intense emotion around her caregiving. Perhaps not surprising, there's some meandering, as we also talk about aging, the healthcare system and our wishes for more collective and communal death care. But mostly there's a lot of heart and tender honesty in this episode. We hope you'll bring your heart to listening and invite you, as always, to share what resonated or what you'll be carrying forward into your own grief journey.  To find out more about this episode, listen to the episodes referenced, and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes.

“If we have the intention to live with love and compassion, we can handle anything. We are amazing beings, we humans. We can also really screw up badly, but if we have the intention to live with love and compassion, it changes what we do and how we are.” ~ Susan J. Tweit In her memoir, Bless the Birds: Living with Love in a Time of Dying, Susan J. Tweit, an award-winning writer and plant ecologist, recounts her journey accompanying her husband toward the end of his life, following a diagnosis with brain cancer. We explore what it was like for her to navigate those devastatingly bittersweet last two years of his life, which included a 4,000-mile honeymoon road trip they'd long put off and the death of Susan's mom to Alzheimer's. But as Susan shares her experiences of grief and death with us, what shines through is not so much the challenges and pain of her journey — though she is candid about both, especially having been a caregiver — but her insistence on fully living during those years. She and her husband Richard were committed to filling their days with love, compassion, beauty, wonder and gratitude for each other. As she speaks to life after Richard, Susan reflects on how she still carries him with her, what it's been like to reclaim her independence and what we can all learn from facing death with less fear. To find out more about this episode, listen to the episodes referenced, and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes.

“Our Christmas lights now are all blue since Ron left. I want to honor the day and the spirit of it, but the bright, shining twinkle lights and jingle bells don't speak to my heart. When the blue lights are turned on, the room is bathed with a lovely blue, which creates exactly the right atmosphere to sink into the holy yet joyful season.” ~Marge Sexton In this holiday compilation episode, we offer a glimpse of others' experiences of the holidays after loss. Sarah shares her journey with grief during the holiday season, including embracing new traditions. Naila shares a poem she wrote about blue Christmas lights and the beauty of grief. Three listeners — Marge Sexton, Righteous Jolly, and Roseanne Corcoran — also share their unique experiences of processing grief over the holidays and their coping mechanisms, including celebrating the memory of loved ones, channeling emotions through art, and connecting with nature. Last, but not least, writer and plant biologist Susan Tweit shares a glimpse of how she processes her grief (and hint, it's a preview of our upcoming episode :)).  To find out more about this episode, listen to the episodes referenced, and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes. Want more time with us? Join our Patreon.  

"If you're willing to open to the journey and if you're willing to really allow yourself to feel your grief and have practices to engage it, it does shape-shift over time. It does become softer. It does become something that you can carry maybe with a little more...lightness and grace." ~Naila Francis In this episode, we delve into varied facets of grief and loss, including the transformative potential that grief holds. Reflecting on our conversation with poet, dream yogi and grief guide, Ning Tendo, from the last episode, we explore our own relationship with dreams and dreaming and some of the images that have both troubled and soothed us in our grief. Given Ning's intentionality caring for her broken heart after the death of her mom, we share the containers that have helped us make room for our grief, as well as the practices that deepen care and compassion for ourselves. (Jacuzzi time and flower arranging, anyone?) We also touch upon an often-avoided subject in grief — anger —  as we share our unique perceptions, challenges and strategies for navigating all that grief, an ever-unpredictable guest, invites. Sarah vulnerably shares what's been shifting in her journey both as a caregiver to her mom and a grieving daughter while we both underline the importance of allowing ourselves to experience grief fully in order for healing and transformation to take place. To find out more about this episode, listen to the episodes referenced, and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes. Want more time with us? Join our Patreon.

“Just having that dream visit, even just one visit, can nourish somebody and really give them the courage to go into their grief because it's not enough to have those dreams. It doesn't negate the pain of their physical absence. You still need to do the hard work. You still need to go into your grief and really unwind all of those stories and all of the different things that are present, but being able to connect with them in that way nourishes you. You don't feel so hopeless anymore.”  - Ning Tendo In this week's episode, we speak with guest Ning Tendo, a published poet, spiritual healer, dream yogi, and grief guide. Ning shares her profound insights into the transformative power of grief and how it can reveal unexplored aspects of ourselves. She discusses her unique approach to navigating grief through exploring dreams, offering practical advice on how to connect with the essence of lost loved ones. Ning also shares her rich cultural background and traditions around grief from Cameroon and contrasts them with her experiences in America. Overall, Ning provides a fresh perspective on embracing grief as a pathway to personal growth, self-awareness, and an expanded understanding of life relationships. To find out more about this episode, listen to the episodes referenced, and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes. Want more time with us? Join our Patreon.

“I think runners, by nature, have this environment of excitement and energy and support just built into a race. It doesn't matter how fast you're running. You're just all together and you're all part of this big happy bubble of energy. It's always a feeling of belonging.” — Sarah Davis In this week's episode, we reflect on our conversation with hip-hop artist, educator, facilitator and activist Dwight Dunston. His faithfulness in honoring his grief moved us both, as well as his openness to feeling joy, gratitude and reverence for life alongside, and in the midst of, profound sorrow. We were especially inspired by his musings on the beauty of being witnessed in community, which prompted us to share the ways we had recently experienced such a gift in our own lives — Naila at a community grief ritual and Sarah while running a half-marathon. Dwight's sharing about his dad modeling for him at a young age that it was OK to grieve invited us to consider our own models of grief, while his commitment to ritualizing his grief made us think of how we meet the death anniversaries of our dads — and whether it's possible to reclaim those milestones in more meaningful ways. With the shift in seasons and the year end drawing close, we also pondered the changes we are being called to in our lives — a question we would love you to consider, as well. As always, we hope you find this conversation nourishing to your own journey and that it maybe helps you hold your grief with more compassion, tenderness and care, especially as we enter the holiday season.  To find out more about this episode, listen to the episodes referenced, and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes. Want more time with us? Join our Patreon.

“I have never been more practiced in honoring my grief, and I truly have never had more gratitude and joy and reverence for life…When you really feel into grief, my experience is you're able to love and feel a part of the life force that moves through all living things.”  ~ Dwight Dunston In our season 5 opener, artist, educator and activist Dwight Dunston reflects on his first big love and loss,  the death of his grandmother Mamie Donald, when he was 10. He shares how that grief continues to shape how he shows up in the world — striving always toward open-heartedness and care even as he acknowledges the more natural instinct to be guarded and self-protective. As he reflects on some of the ways he stays connected to his loved ones who have died, especially his dad, Dwight invites us to consider how we might deepen our relationships to those who've gone before us. And the tenderness he brings toward his grief, choosing to be soft and kind to himself in his hurt and wounded places, is a graceful reminder of how to make more space for our difficult emotions. Dwight brings a palpable reverence for being alive and the range of experiences and emotions that opens up for us to our conversation. As a multidimensional artist, he also talks about creativity as a path to honoring and telling his truth. We're so excited for you to dive into this conversation and hope it offers you moments of witnessing and perspective, which, as Dwight so beautifully shares, are among the gifts of grieving in community.  To find out more about this episode, listen to the episodes referenced, and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes. Want more time with us? Join our Patreon.

In this bonus episode, we reflect on our conversation with Dan Fischer of One Last Wave, an amazing project that invites grievers to memorialize their loved ones by having their names etched on a surfboard that Dan takes out to sea. This episode highlights the kind of exclusive content we share on Patreon. It also covers so much ground, as we muse on the vulnerability of men in grief, how time in nature opens us to feel our grief and to more fully inhabit our wildness, and what grief has taught us about self-care. Of course, you also get a peek at the laughter and silliness we often share that don't make it into our regular episodes. We hope you enjoy this extra dose of warmth, humor and wisdom as we gear up to bring you our new season soon. To find out more about this episode, listen to the episodes referenced, and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes. Want more time with us? Join our Patreon.

“Having an established creative practice helped me in ways I would have never known, and I think it's the greatest gift my younger self gave me now.” ~ Rosemmery Wahtola Trommer This month, we're offering you a feed swap. This is the second episode we're swapping. For the first episode in this swap, check out Episode Swap! Emerging Form Discusses Creativity in Times of Trauma. Emerging Form, co-hosted by poet Rosemmery Wahtola Trommer and journalist Christie Aschwanden, is a podcast about creative process. These two friends cover everything from the business of creativity, to cultivating openness and pleasure, to meeting failure as part of the process. Whether they're talking between themselves or inviting other creatives to share some of their journey,  their conversations are always encouraging and insightful. This episode, Checking in One Year Later, was recorded one year after Rosemerry and Christie publicly shared their losses on the podcast for the first time. It was shortly after Rosemerry's son died and after Christie's father had suffered a stroke. In this episode, they cover the range of emotions one can feel in a tumultuous year– Christie speaks of uncertainty after her father had a stroke, and Rosemerry discusses how having an established writing practice helped her with her grief.  To find out more about this episode, listen to the episodes referenced, and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes. Want more time with us? Join our Patreon.

“Grief cracks you open. It makes us vulnerable… I feel vulnerable.”  ~ Christie Aschwanden “A creative practice prepared me for grief.” ~ Rosemerry Wahtola Trommer This month, we're offering you a feed swap. Emerging Form, co-hosted by poet Rosemmery Wahtola Trommer and journalist Christie Aschwanden, is a podcast about creative process. These two friends cover everything from the business of creativity, to cultivating openness and pleasure, to meeting failure as part of the process. Whether they're talking between themselves or inviting other creatives to share some of their journey,  their conversations are always encouraging and insightful. In this episode from Emerging Form that we're sharing with you, Rosemerry and Christie sit down with each other mere weeks after Rosemerry's son, Finn, has died and Christie's father has suffered a stroke. They explore how profound loss has impacted their relationship to creativity, what they're noticing in their impulses to write or not write and how their tender, cracked open hearts are taking in what each moment has to offer them. To find out more about this episode, listen to the episodes referenced, and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes. Want more time with us? Join our Patreon.

“[Grief] breaks us open, which we may not expect. There's some allowing that has to happen. I'm going to allow this to break me open, to grow a new heart, to connect with people in a more meaningful way, to live a life that's more authentic. I think the breaking open, while it can be hard and scary, speaks to grief as a generative force and the ways it can deepen and enrich your life.” - Naila Francis In this week's episode, our season finale, we reflect on our conversation with Grammy-nominated jazz vocalist Nnenna Freelon. We look at a moment that landed very differently for each of us during that conversation, sharing our takes on why we thought her candid retelling of her husband's final days should and shouldn't have been cut. We have fun recalling some of the signs our dads send us to let us know they're near, including the songs that bring them closer to us — don't worry, we spare you the actual singing of them. And appreciating Nnenna's affirmation of each griever's unique experience, no matter her own wisdom from walking the path, we talk about what was most helpful to us in the immediate aftermath of our losses. We also unwrap what her phrase “Anger doesn't store well” means to both of us and the place anger has in the spectrum of grief. And given that this is our season finale, we do look back on the podcast's evolution and the conversations that have brought greater depth to the season. We hope you agree, and that as usual, you find room for your own story as you listen in. To find out more about this episode, listen to the episodes referenced, and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes. Want more time with us? Join our Patreon.

“It's healthy, I believe, to touch these places. I don't know how you can touch your love place without touching your grief place. They're both there. They're layered on top of each other and your joy place. They're all there, and when we  shut down, we shut down all the good stuff, too.”  ~Nnenna Freelon In this week's episode, Grammy-nominated jazz vocalist Nnenna Freelon takes us on a journey through her many realms of grief. As compelling a storyteller as she is a performer, Nnenna candidly reflects on her ongoing evolution as a griever since the deaths of her beloved husband Phil and sister Debbie. She shares how she has turned to creativity, including her music, not only as a grief practice but as a way to stay connected to Phil, why she's mindful of the words she uses when talking about grief and loss and how embracing grief as a teacher is transforming her dance with this ever-shifting experience. Deeply moving and thought-provoking, this conversation centers grief with so much reverence, wonder and vitality, we hope it inspires you as much as it did us — and invites you to consider what it might mean for you to fall back in love with life while honoring your broken heart. To find out more about this episode, listen to the episodes referenced, and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes. Want more time with us? Join our Patreon.

"Grief, for me, has been about following intuition. It's been about following the feelings. I don't know what they're saying to me. I wish I knew, but I kind of have given up trying to figure it out. And I'm just letting the grief coexist with me, and that's where we're at.”  ~Sarah Davis In this week's episode, we explore grief as it's surfaced — or hasn't — in the days leading up to Father's Day and how challenging it can be to make space for the grief over one parent when caring for another. Inspired by our conversation with Dan Fischer of One Last Wave Project, we also talk about the creative energy in grief and how that can inspire us to connect to others in new ways or channel our experience into outlets that end up serving more than our own individual journeys. As we muse on our mutual love of the ocean, we bring our dads into the conversation, too — and learn some things we never knew about each other. And we reflect on the pets we've loved, the dogs and cats, and their moments of death and how we coped with our grief over these everyday companions. Join us for this conversation that's equal parts lively and tender and always honest, and inspired us to also wonder, what would it be like if our dads had a podcast. To find out more about this episode, listen to the episodes referenced, and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes. Want more time with us? Join our Patreon.

"Something that I didn't have any sense of before...was happiness was up here and grief was down here, where it's really not. It's a universal human experience to lose. If we can recognize that we're all going through similar things and be able to share that, I think it's very healing." ~ Dan Fischer In this week's episode, Dan Fischer reflects on his journey of grieving the deaths of his dad and his dog Rudy, his best friend of 15 years. He recalls how a moment of vulnerability unexpectedly created a community of grievers willing to be vulnerable, too, as they find comfort and healing in connection — and in sharing stories of their loved ones who have died with Fischer, who writes their names on specially shaped surfboards he takes out into the ocean to honor their memories. Fischer's One Last Wave Project is not only a way for him to celebrate his dad and their love of adventure, it also reminds him of the universality of grief and loss, the beauty of intentionally connecting to our loved ones, even when it hurts, and the power of openly admitting when we're not OK. To find out more about this episode, listen to the episodes referenced, and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes. Want more time with us? Join our Patreon.

“I think with any person's life, there's a lot of joy. There's a lot of beauty, there's a lot of love and hope, but there's also a lot of grief and tragedy and, and sorrow.”  ~ Christina Vo In this week's episode, Sarah reflects on many of the conversations she had in Season 1, as well as a few from Seasons 2-3, contributed by guests who reflect on their grief over the death of their moms. As expected with such a significant loss, the grief is layered — touching on identity, memory, connection and the shifting ways we relate to ourselves and our loved one who is no longer with us. Naila and Sarah discuss the nuances in these episodes, as well as the common threads that connect us in our grief and our universal longing for our experiences to be honored and validated.  To find out more about this episode, listen to the episodes referenced, and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes. Want more time with us? Join our Patreon.

“Some people think solitude and loneliness are the same thing, but to me solitude is almost this soulful, nourishing kind of quality that I need, [that] we need, and especially when we're grieving.” — Naila Francis In this episode, we reflect on our earlier conversation with Sarah Chaves. We explore why silence and solitude are essential for both of us on our grief journeys and reflect on being the grief-go-to-girl in many of our relationships and how that can be both challenging and gratifying. Naila offers some of the ways she shows up for her grieving friends but we also talk about the necessity of having boundaries when we don't have the capacity to support others. And for "This is Us" fans, we share our thoughts on how the series captured grief. As usual, our conversation is punctuated by laughter and playfulness, but as we look back to past episodes where guests have shared the experience of reaching the age that their parent died, we touch into a tender and candid moment around the milestones we won't share with our dads. We hope you'll reflect along with us. Visit Breathing Wind's Instagram to share what these questions inspire in you. To find out more about this episode, other resources mentioned, and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes. Want more time with us? Join our Patreon.

“Grief is ever present. It's not like this little cloud that hangs above my head. That's not it. It's the fact that it is a lens through which I view the world and all my relationships constantly. I cannot take off that lens.” ~ Sarah Chaves In this week's episode, author Sarah Chaves brings us a rich and stirringly honest conversation about grieving as a mom, daughter and writer who began crafting her story of loss right after her dad died. She walks us into a deeply cathartic moment on that writing journey, opens up about how grief has affected the dynamics in her family relationships and how she both welcomes and feels burdened by playing the role of gatherer and tender. Sarah also unapologetically speaks to the presence of anger in her life, which came as a big surprise after her son was born.   We hope you'll reflect along with us. Visit Breathing Wind's Instagram to share what these questions inspire in you. To find out more about this episode, other resources mentioned, and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes. Want more time with us? Join our Patreon.

“Leaning into love is leaning into grief,” — Sarah Davis  In this week's episode, co-hosts Naila and Sarah muse on our conversation with poet Rosemerry Wahtola Trommer and all she gifted us with her openness and generosity. Inspired by how she's being guided by her word of the year — “hello” — we share our own words for 2023. We also talk about our willingness, and protectiveness, when it  comes to publicly inviting others into our own grief journeys. As we continue to encourage listening to these conversations for threads of our own stories and truths, we dive into the questions our time with Rosemerry sparked in us. This led to some truly candid moments about caregiving, processing grief, reconciling relationships after death and supporting grievers. We hope you'll reflect along with us. Visit Breathing Wind's Instagram to share what these questions inspire in you. To find out more about this episode, other resources mentioned, and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes. Want more time with us? Join our Patreon.  

“I really trust life itself to rise up and help me meet the things that I cannot control. I trust love to show up and help me meet the things that I cannot control.” ~ Rosemerry Wahtola Trommer In this week's episode, Rosemerry Wahtola Trommer cries and laughs her way through an expansive and nourishing conversation about grief, creativity and love. We talk with her about poetry as a practice for meeting each moment, her unfolding journey through devastating loss and where those experiences of creativity and grief intersect. She also shares how she's been carried by an immensity of love since the death of her son Finn, in the same year that her father died, and how grief has deepened her trust in that love while inviting her, over and over again, to say yes to the world.  To find out more about this episode, other resources mentioned, and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes. Want more time with us? Join our Patreon.  

“[Grief is] really almost like a relationship. It's not, ‘Here's this chapter of my life, here's this season of my life. Here's this thing I have to focus on now or get through now;' [Instead] it's this enduring relationship that you're always in. And, it changes over time, just like the real relationships in our life change over time and things come in and out and circumstances shape them in different ways.We're always carrying our grief and as we go through our life, our relationship is going to change, but it's always going to be there.” — Naila Francis This is a conversation on our old friend, grief, our five questions about grief, and more.  To find out more about this episode, other resources mentioned, and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes. Connect with us on social media: Instagram

Welcome to the Breathing Wind Season 3 finale. In this season, we explored joy in context of grief. In other words, how does joy show up for us in the wild? How is joy an act of resilience? What if joy is unexpected? How do we embody joy? This episode is a collection of some of our favorite moments from the season. If any of these excerpts sound particularly resonate, be sure to check out the entire episode, found on breathingwind.com. Links to individual episodes can be found in the show notes. Selected moments include: [1:33] Bloopers [3:37] Our definitions of joy at the beginning of the season [6:42] Commentary: how Sarah's definition evolved [7:32] Excerpt from Episode 52, The Camino de Santiago Pilgrimage, with Diane Wyzga and Sarah Davis [11:54] Excerpt from Episode 57, Compassion for Ourselves and Others: A Gateway to Emotional Freedom with Wendy Rolón and Duncan Cheung [16:13] Excerpt from Episode 66, The Willingness to be Open, with Dara Kosberg and Vinny Ferraro [19:03] Excerpt from Episode 60, Joy and Grief Touch the Same Part of the Heart with Dara Kosberg, Erin Lim and Angela Tabora [22:20] Excerpt from Episode 65, Resilience is an Act of Care with Naila Francis and Sarah Davis [26:55] Excerpt from Episode 63, The Body is Everything: Making a Home for Grief and Joy, with Naila Francis and Simone Baker [29:56] Excerpt from Episode 72, The Possibility of Pleasure Miniseries Finale, with Oceana Sawyer and Sarah Davis, which included commentary on Episodes 70 and 71. [30:48] Excerpt from Episode 70, The Portal Between Life and Death and Life, with Oceana Sawyer and Karine Bell [33:33] Excerpt from Episode 71, The Sensuality of Place and Grief, with Oceana Sawyer and Roshni Kavate To find out more about this episode, other resources mentioned, and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes. Connect with us on social media: Instagram

"While I never know what it's like to celebrate the holiday season with my aging mother, I've come to appreciate her presence in my life in a way that makes sense to those who savor Christmas, keeping their decorations up long into the new year. She's in my warm, salty tears that still flow at times. She's in the cold autumn fall. When I see the leaves begin to submit to the painting of the forest with radiant acceptance, she's really everywhere I go. I do not need a holiday to remind me of my grief." — Ken Breniman This episode is a departure from the season, but it's also something I felt was coming forward for the holidays that needed to be heard and expressed. In this episode, you'll hear from Ken Breniman and Deborah Szeto, guest hosts from Season 2, Naila Francis, guest host from Season 3, Dr. Jason Ridler, guest from Season 3, Daisy from Season 1 and Sarah Davis, founder and producer. The prompt I gave everyone who you'll hear from in this episode was simple: A friend and past guest suggested she read from a letter she wrote to her mom this year, and it made me think about all the creative ways we express our grief in writing that can help others. Do you want to share a recording of you reading from an essay, poem, letter, or otherwise you wrote about this topic? To find out more about this episode, other resources mentioned, and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes. Connect with us on social media: Instagram

“There really is not a timeline. You do not know how long it may take. It's a journey and it's something you carry, not much different than love. I really think that, just like love doesn't have a timeline, why would grief?” — Kendra Rinaldi In this week's episode, Kendra Rinaldi, grief coach and podcast host of Grief, Gratitude & the Grey in Between, talks with producer/host Sarah Davis about the humanity our loved ones bring, her unique views on grief and death, how her healing came through facilitating grief conversations and some suggestions from her for the holidays. To find out more about this episode, other resources mentioned, and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes. Connect with us on social media: Instagram

"Grabbing those moments and claiming them for yourself so that you have a bit of goodness and nourishment to support you as you go on the sometimes really hard road of grieving…that's really important.” —Oceana Sawyer In this week's episode, Oceana Sawyer speaks with producer, Sarah Davis, about the themes that surfaced and shared some of our favorite moments from her miniseries. The Possibility of Pleasure miniseries hosted by Oceana Sawyer, explores grief through the senses, which will consider how utilizing any six senses (taste, touch, sight, smell, hearing, imagination) can enhance the metabolization of grief allowing the process of grieving to cultivate wisdom and a greater appreciation of living. To find out more about this episode, Oceana's miniseries, and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes. Connect with us on social media: Instagram

“There's just something about the air. If you live by the ocean, there's a saltiness in the air. You can smell the fruit every morning as you walk the streets, depending on if it's a market day or what's in season. So it really grounds you and places you in time, space, memory, where you are, who you're connected with, and what's happening.” — Roshni Kavate In this week's episode, Roshni Kavate speaks with Oceana about how the sensuality of food-ways, family homes and locations can mix and mingle to create soothing balms for grieving. Roshni also does a beautiful job of describing the specific secondary losses that are unique to first and second generation immigrants or expatriates. The Possibility of Pleasure miniseries hosted by Oceana Sawyer, explores grief through the senses, which will consider how utilizing any six senses (taste, touch, sight, smell, hearing, imagination) can enhance the metabolization of grief allowing the process of grieving to cultivate wisdom and a greater appreciation of living. To find out more about this episode and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes. Connect with us on social media: Instagram

“My grief is the one at the wheel.” — Karine bell In this episode, Karine Bell speaks of several significant life transformations for her — birth of her daughter, death of her mother and father. In each, she emphasizes the conditions she had to feel safe in her grief and the layers she experienced. The Possibility of Pleasure miniseries hosted by Oceana Sawyer, explores grief through the senses, which will consider how utilizing any six senses (taste, touch, sight, smell, hearing, imagination) can enhance the metabolization of grief allowing the process of grieving to cultivate wisdom and a greater appreciation of living. To find out more about this episode and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes. Connect with us on social media: Instagram

“We have to be very awake in a really deep, rooted way…And listening with not just our ears, but all of our senses really.” —Melanie DeMore, on singing for people at the end of their lives. This week's episode features a conversation between Oceana Sawyer and Melanie DeMore, three-time Grammy nominated singer/composer, choral conductor, music director and vocal activist. Oceana and Melanie talk about her experience as a threshold singer, as well as how she was called to do this work with her unique gifts, and some of her thoughts on music at the end of life. The Possibility of Pleasure miniseries hosted by Oceana Sawyer, explores grief through the senses, which will consider how utilizing any six senses (taste, touch, sight, smell, hearing, imagination) can enhance the metabolization of grief allowing the process of grieving to cultivate wisdom and a greater appreciation of living. To find out more about this episode and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes. Connect with us on social media: Instagram

“Joy allows you to open up a little bit — expand just a little bit — and reach for something maybe that you couldn't see before.” —Oceana Sawyer In this week's episode, Oceana Sawyer and Sarah Davis talk about Oceana's background, her guests for this miniseries, as well as some of her thoughts on joy and grieving. This episode is part of a Breathing Wind miniseries titled The Possibility of Pleasure, hosted by Oceana Sawyer. The Possibility of Pleasure miniseries explores grief through the senses, which will consider how utilizing any six senses (taste, touch, sight, smell, hearing, imagination) can enhance the metabolization of grief allowing the process of grieving to cultivate wisdom and a greater appreciation of living. To find out more about this episode and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes. Connect with us on social media: Instagram

“When I just let myself surrender and fully feel the grief, there's a certain point where my body knows that it can't take anymore. I often feel a rebound — and sometimes that is in the form of humor or other lightness — but I've also found that, when I don't just let myself fully feel, it doesn't happen.” Dara Kosberg In this week's episode, Dara and Sarah recap the miniseries and their views on humor and grief. You'll also hear excerpts from previous episodes. This episode is part of a Breathing Wind miniseries titled Comedy and Grief, hosted by Dara Kosberg. The Comedy and Grief miniseries explores how humor allows people to get closer to their grief, explore it and better understand it, by creating a gateway into the hard feelings. To find out more about this episode and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes. Connect with us on social media: Instagram

“One of my teachers says that all emotions contain their opposite. So when I'm willing to be with the grief, I have access to joy again. Instead of this armoring that comes very natural to us, we do our best to remain to find the willingness to open in an undefended way.” — Vinny Ferraro In this episode, Dara and Sarah talk with Vinny Ferraro about the training program, A Year to Live, emotional opposites and armor, insight meditation and how his practice has shifted his relationship to grief.  Vinny Ferraro is a nationally recognized leader in designing and implementing mindfulness interventions. He's served as the Training Director for Mindful Schools, Challenge Day and the Mind Body Awareness Project. His experience includes decades of direct services to incarcerated people. He's been empowered in the Buddhist Insight tradition, and he's been the Guiding Teacher of the Big Heart City Sangha in SF since 2004. This episode is part of a Breathing Wind miniseries titled Grief and Humor, co-hosted by Dara Kosberg and Sarah Davis. The Grief and Humor miniseries explores how humor allows people to get closer to their grief, explore it and better understand it, by creating a gateway into the hard feelings. To find out more about this episode and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes. Connect with us on social media: Instagram

“We often feel like maybe it's a betrayal of our grief to feel joy or that there's no room in grief for joy, or that it means, if we're grieving the loss of somebody who died that we loved, maybe we're not loving or honoring their memory enough or whatever the stories are that we tell ourselves. But we need joy to hold the heavy and the sad.” Naila Francis In this episode, Naila talks with Sarah Davis, producer, about her miniseries, joy as resilience, and the ways that resilience appeared in her conversations. This episode is part of the Breathing Wind miniseries titled Joy as Resilience, hosted by Naila Francis. The Joy as Resilience miniseries explores why embracing joy is not frivolous and how cultivating it can help us weather challenging times and open our lives to greater connection and purpose.  To find out more about this episode and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes. Connect with us on social media: Instagram

“I understood really early about when you go through extreme grief, that there's loss in different kinds of ways. It's not just the person that passed away…It's all the threads that hold you close.”  Colleen Attara In this episode, Naila talks with Colleen Attara about her early experience of grief and how that's informed her journey as an artist and educator; her willingness to embrace joy in the midst of transformation; and the gift of being a caregiver to her mom, which inspired her altered book art practice.  This episode is part of the Breathing Wind miniseries titled Joy as Resilience, hosted by Naila Francis. The Joy as Resilience miniseries explores why embracing joy is not frivolous and how cultivating it can help us weather challenging times and open our lives to greater connection and purpose.  To find out more about this episode and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes. Connect with us on social media: Instagram

"So it's not [about] bypassing the grief, or bypassing any of it. It's about creating space for it, holding it, seeing it, recognizing it, having a conversation with it, you know, and really honoring it. And knowing that underneath that is this place for you to access your joy as well." Simone Baker This episode is part of the Breathing Wind miniseries titled Joy as Resilience, hosted by Naila Francis. The Joy as Resilience miniseries explores why embracing joy is not frivolous and how cultivating it can help us weather challenging times and open our lives to greater connection and purpose.  In this episode, Naila talks with Simone Baker about her earliest experience with grief, how she began to “thaw” from the deep sadness she carried, and how the body can help process both joy and grief.  To find out more about this episode and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes. Connect with us on social media: Instagram

"I think you really have to have the sad to also appreciate the beauty." Moon Fang This episode is a part of the Breathing Wind miniseries titled Joy as Resilience, hosted by Naila Francis. The Joy as Resilience miniseries explores why embracing joy is not frivolous and how cultivating it can help us weather challenging times and open our lives to greater connection and purpose.  In this episode, Naila talks with Moon Fang, Southern California-based death doula and enthusiast about their work in the death awareness community, their experience with partner loss, and how the difficult moments can help with receiving joy. Moon is a queer podcast host of Queer Death Stories and a future co-host of a project called Queering the Moon. They are a writer, a ritual dabbler and a seeker and a singer. A storyteller and a connector. Curiousness is their vice. To find out more about this episode and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes. Connect with us on social media: Instagram

"Personally for me, joy is my inherent nature. I really do feel it to be the essence of who I am and how I move through the world, which is interesting because so much of the work I do is around grief and loss and dying. And yet those experiences and journeys are so much more expansive than we might believe them to be, and are capable of holding joy, too, and many other positive emotions that we might not associate with them.”    Naila Francis   This episode is the trailer for the Breathing Wind miniseries titled Joy as Resilience, hosted by Naila Francis. The Joy as Resilience miniseries explores why embracing joy is not frivolous and how cultivating it can help us weather challenging times and open our lives to greater connection and purpose.  As a writer and a grief coach, Naila's work is often informed by her love of poetry, the gifts of healing rooted in nature and community and her commitment to expanding our grief, literacy and death awareness. To find out more about this episode and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes. Connect with us on social media: Instagram

"So they experienced this death. And then they all have to band together – ‘we're still going to make everything happen.' That's kind of how I felt after my dad passed away; I'm just going to do everything that I need to do." Angela Tabora This episode is part of a Breathing Wind miniseries titled Grief and Humor, co-hosted by Dara Kosberg and Sarah Davis. The Grief and Humor miniseries explores how humor allows people to get closer to their grief, explore it and better understand it, by creating a gateway into the hard feelings. This is a two-part episode. In this episode, Part 2, Dara and Sarah talk with Erin Lim and Angela Tabora, co hosts of Bitch Talk Podcast about grief and humor we saw in Little Miss Sunshine and other films. If you haven't listened yet, go back to Part 1, where we talk about our parents' humor, grief and humor, and humorous movies that remind them of their loved ones who passed away.  ​​To find out more about this episode and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes. Connect with us on social media: Instagram

"…you have to find the humor. If it's not in their death, it's maybe something in their life.” Erin Lim “My dad used to say that laughter is the best medicine…. I feel like it balances you out as well because you can't have the grief without the joy.” Angela Tabora This episode is part of a Breathing Wind miniseries titled Grief and Humor, co-hosted by Dara Kosberg and Sarah Davis. The Grief and Humor miniseries explores how humor allows people to get closer to their grief, explore it and better understand it, by creating a gateway into the hard feelings. In this episode, Dara and Sarah talk with Erin Lim and Angela Tabora, co hosts of Bitch Talk Podcast, about their dads' humor, grief and humor, and humorous movies that remind them of their loved ones who passed away.

“It feels like a wilderness exploration journey where, yeah, some parts of it we know and love. And some parts of it, we just don't know enough. And it's always a bit of a discovery. And the weather's always going to be different.” — Duncan Cheung This episode is part of a Breathing Wind miniseries titled Inner and Outer Wilderness, hosted by Duncan Cheung. The Inner and Outer Wilderness miniseries explores the wonderment of and between the wilderness out there and within each of us.  This is the last episode in Duncan's miniseries and is a compilation episode, highlighting themes discussed, including the metaphor of the wilderness, discomfort versus danger, home, joy, how wilderness spaces can be healing, and compassion. ​​To find out more about this episode and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes. Connect with us on social media: Facebook Instagram

"No one can avoid negative stuff happening. Negative stuff happens all the time on a lot of different levels, whether I got gum on the bottom of my shoe, or my father died, right? And everything in between. We can't control that. And again, nature is the perfect metaphor for this – being out in the wilderness helps cultivate your ability to stay with your strong, resilient, loving wise self. And to let that core part of you lead." Wendy Rolón This episode is part of a Breathing Wind miniseries titled Inner and Outer Wilderness, hosted by Duncan Cheung. The Inner and Outer Wilderness miniseries explores the wonderment of and between the wilderness out there and within each of us. For this episode, Sarah Davis, founder of Breathing Wind, led the conversation. In this episode, Sarah talks with Duncan and regular Breathing Wind contributor and grief counselor, Wendy Rolón, about compassion for ourselves and others, how they tap into nature's healing powers, and how to work with our inner children.  ​​To find out more about this episode and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes. Connect with us on social media: Facebook Instagram

"When we give ourselves some space to just be, that's where those quiet little moments [of joy] can pop up alongside the grief." Lindsay Joy Taylor In this bonus episode, Sarah talks with Lindsay Joy Taylor, grief advocate and founder of The Joyful Jewelry Box, about her mom, inspiration behind the remembrance jewelry she creates, Mother's Day and toxic positivity. The Joyful Jewelry Box is memorial jewelry to honor loved ones and keep their memories alive. When Lindsay was only 13 months old, her mom was killed. Now she keeps her mom's memory alive by making remembrance jewelry and providing community grief support. She also writes and speaks to normalize grief and raise awareness about the lifelong impact of traumatic loss. ​​To find out more about this episode and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes. Connect with us on social media: Facebook Instagram

“Out there, we are not our Mercedes or our home or our job or our degrees. We are just us. And it's enough.” Karen Najarian This episode is part of a Breathing Wind miniseries titled Inner and Outer Wilderness, hosted by Duncan Cheung. The Inner and Outer Wilderness miniseries explores the wonderment of and between the wilderness out there and within each of us. In this episode, Duncan talks with Dr Rick and Karen Najarian about the full expansiveness and joy of the wilderness, Karen's experience as a guide and the power of reflective joy her students experienced, the important distinction between sage versus teacher, and how to model comfort in a place and time that is otherwise uncomfortable. To find out more about this episode and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes. Connect with us on social media: Facebook Instagram

“So, in the pursuit of healing, joy is kind of a natural byproduct of that for me. But it takes a tremendous amount of work and awareness to recognize joy when it's present, because it's not always sunshine and rainbows and unicorns and hippie dippy stuff. Sometimes joy is just the absence of despair, that can feel tremendous — especially coming out of these really deep, dark and long periods — where it just feels like slog of moving through things to just be on the other side of pain. Just the absence of that despair and confusion can feel like joy, and can give us clues in our body as to like what it feels like to be in that space.” - Sydney Williams This episode is part of a Breathing Wind miniseries titled Inner and Outer Wilderness, hosted by Duncan Cheung. The Inner and Outer Wilderness miniseries explores the wonderment of and between the wilderness out there and within each of us. In this episode, Duncan talks with Sydney Williams, founder of Hiking My Feelings, about how her inner and outer wilderness experience moved her to form a nonprofit dedicated to helping people heal through hiking. To find out more about this episode and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes. Connect with us on social media: Facebook Instagram

"Be fully there. Breathe it in, listen to what the winds have to say. What the birds have to say, what the water has to say, and (this sounds so crunchy granola) it really boils down to that simple thing: it's just being there. And when I'm there, I'm here. I'm fully present in the moment, in time and in space. And when I sit after a long, grueling hike, and I sit whether it's next to a beautiful lake, sunny weather, cloudless skies, or if it's hailing and storming above me, and I'm back with hail pellets, stuck at 11,000 feet on an unexposed ridge with thunder and lightning around me, I feel connected, I feel that I get to be a living thing in the vastness of the wilderness. And it starts to put things into context for me.“ Duncan Cheung This episode is part of a Breathing Wind miniseries titled Inner and Outer Wilderness, hosted by Duncan Cheung. The Inner and Outer Wilderness miniseries explores the wonderment of and between the wilderness out there and within each of us. In this episode, Sarah Davis talks with Duncan Cheung about some of the foundational concepts covered in his miniseries. To find out more about this episode and subscribe to the newsletter, visit the show notes. Connect with us on social media: Facebook Instagram