Back40 Leadership Podcast

In the second message of our series called Kingdom Builders, Pastor Mel explains what the tithe is and why we should be faithful to do it. At Summit Church one of our core values is radical generosity. We believe God is radically generous and we want the world to see that in how we live and how we give. In a most general sense, scripture recognizes two types of giving: tithes and offerings. Tithing is a principle, not a law, and the tithe is made up of your first 10% of income. Offerings are above and beyond your tithe and are your response when God prompts you to give. Mel preaches through selected scriptures and shows us why the tithe is for today. We should tithe because God says the tithe is important, the tithe teaches us to honor God, and the tithe teaches us to trust God.

Mel and Michael talk about how to foster a church culture which minimizes the chances of catastrophic moral failures. How can we encourage people to confess their sins without losing the deterrence associated with facing consequences? Can we even control consequences? How does humility promote strong negotiating positions? The conversation finishes with a survey of King Hezekiah's pride and what we can learn about pastors who are too proud of their churches. What does it look like when the kingdom loses and your church wins?

In the first message of our series called Kingdom Builders, Pastor Mel explains what we know about the character of God's kingdom. God's kingdom is not of this world and it is mysterious. Despite the mystery, there are certain things we can know about the kingdom because the kingdom is also principled. We know the order of God's kingdom is unshakable. Scripture also teaches us the kingdom demands obedience, affection, and multiplication. John Stott said, “We must be global Christians with a global vision because our God is a global God.” We should seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and depend on Him for everything we need.

In the fourth and final message of our series called Inevitable, Pastor Mel explains the best way to leave a church. Two common reasons why a person chooses to leave a church are misunderstandings and misalignments. Misunderstandings occur when two or more people fail to have proper "Matthew 18 conversations" aimed at reconciliation. Mel points out how we see what we look for: if we look for the best in a church we will see the best, and if we look for the worst we will see the worst. Misalignments are untrue because all churches share a common vision: to honor God and reach people for Christ. This message culminates in Mel giving a step-by-step process for how to leave a church properly.

Pastor Mel teaches about biblical masculinity at the inaugural Men's Gathering for 2025. What qualities make for a godly man? How does the Bible say we should conduct ourselves as men? When does it make sense for men to run away as if their lives depend on it? Mel answers these questions and explores further which things a godly man should pursue. Six characteristics of biblical masculinity include righteousness, a godly life, faith, love, perseverance, and gentleness. Which of these qualities do you or your loved ones struggle with? If you're a man this message will explain who God wants you to be according to scripture, and if you're a woman you'll hear useful information to help the men you love.

Mel, Kim, and Michael discuss the power of redemption in leadership and why second chances are necessary in pastoral ministry. How does a leader practice Christlike forgiveness while also protecting the organization against repeat betrayal? How should you extend mercy to someone when others believe the person doesn't deserve it? The conversation turns to analyzing why church leaders sell out - especially when facing threats to their ministry. The discussion finishes with strategies for overcoming past sins. How do you move on when others keep reminding you of what you've done?

Pastor Collin McKnight discusses loss, sorrow, and mourning in this edition of our series called Inevitable. Grief and sorrow are inevitable for all human beings. We are created with the understanding that we will encounter loss. Jesus revealed His humanity through grief when He wept over Lazarus's death. Collin explains why it is absolutely acceptable to bring your questions to God while in the midst of grief. The conversations we have with God that are born of despair are some of the most honest conversations we will ever have. William Barclay said, "Endurance is not just the ability to bear hard things, but to turn it into glory.”

In the third message of our series called Inevitable, Pastor Mel teaches how we should prepare for death and how the reality of death should impact our perspective. The unknown scares us and so part of how we prepare for death is focus on what we know. We know death is assured and we know eternity is assured. We know Hell is real but we also know Heaven is real. Seneca said, "The day which we fear as our last is but the birthday of eternity." When thinking about death we must remind ourselves that God's presence is also assured. Despite our impending deaths, we can live our lives without regret if we steward our health well, steward our finances well, steward our time well, and steward Christ well. We must live our lives with an eternal perspective.

In the second week of our series called Inevitable, Pastor Mel teaches how Christians should walk through health setbacks. Proverbs says, "A cheerful heart is good medicine, but a broken spirit saps a person's strength." A positive outlook as you endure health crises doesn't mean you're denying what's happening, it means you're trusting God. Mel unpacks several of Christ's healing miracles and explains why God wants us to confess our lack and our need to be healed. Being healed is an invitation to change, and we don't like change even if it's healthy change. Are you so comfortable with the broken life that you are leading, that you would rather stay this way? The message finishes with Mel explaining why Jesus is more interested in fixing our hearts than fixing our problems.

In week one of our series called Inevitable, Pastor Mel talks about the inevitability of financial setbacks and how we should strive for a godly relationship with money. He explains how a large number of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck, even those who have a relatively high income. Scripture warns us that our lives are not measured by how much we own, but that we should seek first the kingdom of God rather than building our own temporary kingdoms. Mel points out how the two words Jesus uses to describe how we feel when we ignore God in our finances are "fear and anxiety." The message finishes with an encouragement for us to tithe our first-fruits and how doing so is a reminder that God is responsible for our provision.

In the fourth and final week of our series called Meet God Here, Pastor Mel teaches about the characteristics of God's presence. Preaching through selected scriptures in Exodus, Mel shows how the presence of God provides rest. Moses was a great man of faith and he didn't want to enter the Promised Land without God. Moses understood it's better to be in the wilderness with God than to be in the Promised Land without God. God's presence is more important than the promise. Mel explains how in the absence of God's presence, we will find alternative gods. In this message you'll learn why God's presence is greater than success, wealth, and happiness. The message concludes with Mel making the case that God's presence is what differentiates His people.

Pastor Collin McKnight preaches live in Blairsville on week three of our series called Meet God Here. Throughout scripture God met with His people on the mountain, but now we can meet Him through Jesus wherever we go. Charles Swindoll said, "God enjoys turning wandering people into worshipers, transforming drifters into pilgrims who receive His words, follow His ways, believe His promises." Israel was called to the mountain to worship God, and today Jesus is the mountain to whom God is calling all who believe.

In the third message of our series called Meet God Here, Pastor Mel explains the role of holy places in our worship. Throughout history, both inside and outside the faith, people have considered high places to be holy. Elevations like mountains and hills have frequently been considered holy locations. Mel talks about several locations in scripture which God's people privileged as being holy. These include Shiloh, Jerusalem, and Mount Gerizim. It's easy for the faithful to become attached to specific places like churches or cathedrals as unique venues where one must go in order to meet God. In the final analysis, the sole factor for determining holiness is the presence of God - so any location where God is present becomes a holy place.

Mel, Collin, and Michael discuss their thoughts on the Inauguration of President Donald Trump. Was the pageantry appropriate or did it go over the top? What can church leaders learn from the technical failure during Carrie Underwood's performance? Should schools close on Inauguration Day? The conversation turns to the best way to treat those who are grieving the loss of a loved one. What should you say? What should you avoid saying? How does this treatment differ from how you treat someone whose loved one is dying but still alive? What about how you handle someone who is himself dying? The episode finishes with a discussion about why unity may not be desirable as an ultimate goal. What are some problems with making unity your highest value?

In the second part of our series called Meet God Here, Pastor Kim teaches how we meet God in community. Western culture has made individualism an ideal by promoting freedom, rights, and satisfaction of our own desires. Kim explains how human beings are created as image bearers of God with an inner need to connect with each other. Preaching through Acts 2, Kim presents four marks of a healthy Church and a healthy follower of Christ. The Church should be devoted to the teachings of scripture, to fellowship, to sharing meals together (including taking Communion), and to prayer. The Spirit of God brings followers of Christ into intimate relationship with Himself, but He also brings followers of Christ into abiding relationship with each other.

Mel and Michael discuss Craig Groeschel's perspective on the value of keeping tenured, trusted leaders together. They also talk about how Jesus viewed the Church. Is Christianity really about relationship more than it is about religion? We learn from Mel why it's important to remain calm when leading through challenges. What are his strategies for inspiring confidence when things are uncertain? Is there such a thing as a noble lie? The conversation finishes with ways a leader can be decisive with his use of authority despite the universal inner-need to be liked by others. Listen to Wesley Huff on Joe Rogan's podcast here. Listen to Craig Groeschel's Leadership podcast here.

Mel and Michael talk about practicing prudence while also remembering God tends to deliver in big, unexpected ways. How do you keep yourself open to God's improbable works while also being cautious to make good decisions? What is the right way to think about miracles? Do we expect too much? How can an organization foster a culture of honoring leaders without corrupting the humility of those leaders? What does it mean to follow God's opportunities wherever they lead you? Does this apply to job titles as well as geographical locations? How does understanding this help you find your calling?

Summit Church's theme for 2025 is: Meet God Here. Our first series of the year kicks off this theme and part one focuses on fasting. What does it mean to fast in a way that honors God? What happens when you fast? What are some common mistakes you might make when attempting a fast? Pastor Mel answers all of these questions and more as he carefully works through Isaiah 58. This passage in Isaiah presents a look at God's people Israel participating in religious rituals while their hearts are far from God. Mel explains why God is primarily interested in the transformation of your heart and mind and how rituals like fasting are meaningless unless these more fundamental modes of obedience are first faithfully adopted.

Pastor Mel teaches systematically through a passage in Romans 8 to explain what it means for God to cause everything to work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose for them. This passage is often misquoted or misunderstood because the intention of the text and the meaning of the text is skewed by its interpreters. Mel works through Romans 8:28 nearly word-by-word to ensure each definition and nuance within the famous doctrine is captured. Most Christians believe God is good, but proper understanding of this passage in Romans may lead you to a conclusion that God is even better than you first believed.

In a special Christmas message, Pastor Mel preaches through John chapter 1 that Jesus is the light of the world. He explains why it's fitting for us to celebrate the birth of Christ near the winter solstice because Jesus is the light who came into a darkened world. Mel draws out the analogy to light by reminding us that light energizes, light attracts, and light reveals. He teaches why all of these attributes are common to Jesus as well. The message finishes with an encouragement for each of us to carry light into the world - even if we feel like our own light is insignificant.

In the final message of our series called In the Meantime, Pastor Mel teaches why weeping is both acceptable and to be expected while you wait. Often we don't get to choose whether we wait, but we always get to choose how we wait. Preaching through 2 Corinthians, Mel talks about Paul's famous thorn in the flesh and how Paul begged the Lord three times to take it away - yet the Lord didn't. He also tells Mary's story and how she stood near the cross when her son Jesus was crucified. He explains how tragic this scene must have been and how crushed Mary must have felt. The message finishes with a reminder of the salvation we have in Jesus. Christians are set free to weep with hope because they don't need to grieve as those who have no hope.

Mel and Michael talk about succession plans. Why is it important for every organization to have pre-drafted succession plans? Should these plans take on the character of advance directives in case the leader is no longer around to execute them? You can also expect to learn about staff development. Should staff development fall on the shoulders of the leader or should it be delegated to managers? Do succession plans need to be in place for each employee you bring onto the team? Is there a right time or right way to make the successor aware that they are the planned replacement as leader? When you're leading an organization how do you balance the wisdom of a proper succession plan with the value of being needed by the organization since you're the only one trained to do your work?

In the third part of our series called In the Meantime, Pastor Kim teaches what it means to work while you wait. Waiting without working leads to apathy, laziness, bitterness, and hopelessness. The apostle Paul had plenty of opportunities to slip into these kinds of issues throughout his imprisonment but he chose to work while he waited. Paul worshipped, wrote prison epistles, and kept doing everything he could to spread the gospel. Kim also tells the story of Joseph and how remained diligent while he waited for the brith of Jesus.

In the second message of our series called In the Meantime, Pastor Mel teaches that we get to choose how we wait. We get to choose what we do in the meantime as we are awaiting results. Mel explains how Paul was made to wait at several points throughout his missionary journey, and that Paul chose to watch while he waited. He was watching to see how the churches were doing and watching to see what was needed. The wise men also watched with anticipation as they awaited the birth of Christ. In the first message we learned how worship redeems waiting periods, and in this message we learn how watching with expectation for God's next move can make our waiting periods more productive.

In the first message of our series called In the Meantime, Pastor Mel explains what to do when we're in the space between our expectations and results. What do we do in the meantime? Preaching through Acts 9, Mel explores what it must have been like for Paul while he was waiting to find out whether he would ever see again. During this time Paul worshiped, and we too must worship while we wait. Mel explains why worship redeems the waiting periods in our lives. Time spent waiting is not time wasted if you are worshipping during the waiting. The message finishes with Mel working through a passage in Luke 2 and showing us how Anna and Simeon long-awaited the birth of Christ.

Pastor Christina preaches through Matthew 26 and shows how Jesus exemplified godly obedience in the Garden of Gethsemane as well as throughout His Passion. Obedience means choosing to submit to and trust God's heart. Christina explains how obedience means choosing to be faithful and submitted in the mundane and in the painful. She finishes the message by challenging us that Christ's obedience calls for us to obey Him. How do we do this? Christina teaches that obedience truly begins with knowing the heart of God and abiding there.

Pastor Collin unpacks what it means to be a disciple and explains why there's more to the Christian life than initial conversion. Every next step we take with Jesus leads us to a deeper relationship with God. Brother Lawrence said, "The More we know Him, the more we will desire to know Him. As love increases with knowledge, the more we know God, the more we will truly Love Him. We will learn to love him equally in times of distress or in times of great joy. Let us occupy ourselves with knowing God." Every next step we take with Jesus leads us to a life of freedom and a role in God's greater mission.

In part two of our series called Absurdity of Generosity, Pastor Mel teaches how trusting in the providence of God is crucial to being generous. We can be generous with others because we know that God is generous with us. Generosity begins with the question, "What can God do with what I have in my hand?" Contentment is a key part of learning to be generous because if you're not content then you'll always be looking for the next gain. Preaching through Mark 6, Mel reminds us of the power of God's providence by unpacking the story of Jesus feeding the 5,000. This message includes a special surprise of radical generosity given to a service-worker in our community.

In the first message of our series called Absurdity of Generosity, Pastor Mel explains what it means to be radically generous. At Summit Church we believe God has been radically generous with us and we want the world to see that in how we live and how we give. Mel dispenses with three myths when it comes to generosity: that you must be rich to be generous, that you only have to give if you can afford it, and that if you give God will make you rich. Mel uses the story of the Widow's Mite found in Mark 12 to explain how the amount of money in your bank account will not change the amount of generosity in your heart. The message finishes with two challenging questions: what can God make possible with what I have in my hand? What would it look like if the people of Summit Church began to live lives that are radically generous?

Mel, Todd and Michael discuss whether it's appropriate for Christians to support war-efforts. If world peace apart from Jesus is not possible, should we even strive for it as a goal? Next they talk about how to accept correction from your superiors. What are the best mannerisms to have in this moment? What some things you definitely should not do or say when receiving correction? They also talk about the distinctions between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. The conversation finishes on the topic of alcohol. Can drinking alcohol have positive effects for a Christian or should it be avoided entirely?

The fifth and final message of our series One Nation Under God brings Pastor Mel teaching about Christian generosity as well as the tithe. The thematic idea for this series is that political transformation is easy while spiritual transformation is hard. Mel begins by explaining the differences between how Romans and early Christians viewed money. Romans were stingy and self-serving, while Christians were open-handed and generous. Mel explains the distinctions between The First Tithe, The Festival Tithe, and The Poor Tithe. What does the Bible say about the spiritual significance of tithing? Mel finishes the message by challenging us that we fail to find peace with our finances because we fail to trust in God. The world will not be changed by our spare time and our spare money, but authentic Christian generosity has the power to change everything.

In the fourth message of our series called One Nation Under God, Pastor Mel helps us understand the truths about idolatry. The running theme for this series is that while political transformation is easy, spiritual transformation is hard. We often think of shrines and statues when we think about idolatry, but idolatry normally takes on a different form for us today. Mel explains how idolatry may not mean loving evil things, but loving good things too much and making them supreme over God. Some commonly idolized facets of life include success, fame, and identity. Mel provides two tests for our hearts to determine whether we have idols: where do we spend our money and where do we spend our time? The message finishes with a personal story from Mel's own life to illustrate what biblical repentance looks like.

In the third week of our series called One Nation Under God, Pastor Mel unpacks what the Bible teaches us about sex. He begins the message by contextualizing the Scripture through a comparison of the Roman view sex with the Christian view of sex. Scripture prohibits sexual sins including adultery, fornication, homosexuality, bestiality, and incest. Mel breaks down the neurological processes which occur during sex and explains how they are both helpful and motivating in the context of marriage - but destructive in the context of sexual sin. He finishes the message by reminding us of God's grace shown to the adulterous woman in John 8.

Mel and Michael discuss a range of topics including what to do when you say something you regret. How do you go about fixing it? The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. Knowing this, how do you trust someone who has poor past behavior? What does Mel think about Artificial Intelligence? Does AI have a role in the Church or in his own ministry? What should we do when AI becomes indistinguishable from humanity? If there is no marriage in Heaven, does that mean the institution of marriage is inherently corrupt? The conversation finishes with death-bed conversions and whether such testimonies are good for the kingdom of God.

In week two of our series called One Nation Under God, Pastor Collin teaches about the Judeo-Christian values concerning the sanctity of life. The main idea for this series is that nations are changed when followers of Jesus give their lives for other people. Part of understanding this is the reminder that "we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places." Collin explains Summit's unashamedly pro-life position by preaching through Psalm 139 and John 3. He finishes his message by encouraging us to make sacrifices by seeking first the kingdom of God and his righteousness.

Mel, Todd, and Michael begin the conversation by discussing whether there's a real risk of Christian Nationalism emerging as a reaction to woke idolatry. What is Christian Nationalism? What makes a political leader a theocrat? Is it even possible or desirable to keep religion out of politics? Next they discuss Israel's multi-front war and whether or not it bears eschatological significance. Does it tell us anything about the end of days? The conversation finishes with a reflection on the immensity of information given to us each day. Will the truth get lost in the confusion if we don't self-restrict what we consume?

In the first message of our series called One Nation Under God, Pastor Mel explains some critical distinctions between church and government. Part of the reason our political conversations have become so contentious is because we've made our politics as sacred as the church. We idolize our politicians instead of remaining focused on Jesus. Political transformation is often easier than spiritual transformation. The early church thrived under political persecution because it offered a direct relationship with an intimate God. The first century church was countercultural, and they understood eternal life came by grace through faith - not by works. Through Romans 12 Mel encourages us not to copy the behavior and customs of this world, but to let God transform us into new people by changing the way we think.

In the fourth and final message of our series called More Than Christians, Pastor Mel explains the final phase of a disciple's development: to do as Jesus did. We should be baptized in water because Jesus was baptized in water. We should be led by the Spirit of God because Jesus was led by the Spirit of God. Jesus also prioritized prayer and being with God, even if it meant withdrawing from others for a time. We also see that Jesus went to church regularly and he preached the gospel boldly, which further solidifies the reasons for why we should not forsake the gathering of the saints. Perhaps most importantly, Jesus suffered in this world and he also loved sacrificially. Walking well through suffering and pouring yourself out to love others are the most difficult projects in doing what Jesus did. Under normal circumstances we cannot do it on our own, but by the power of the Holy Spirit we can live a life like Jesus lived.

In part three of our series called More Than Christians, Pastor Mel explains what it means to become like Jesus. He reminds us of the three goals of a disciple: to be with your rabbi, to become like your rabbi, and to do as your rabbi did. God's purpose for his people is for them to become like Jesus Christ. A disciple of Jesus is anyone who intentionally organizes their life around Jesus (being with him, becoming like him, and doing what he did). A non-disciple of Jesus is anyone who intentionally organizes their life around anything else. Becoming like Jesus means imitating him and surrounding yourself with an environment which promotes Christlikeness. Whether we're aware of it or not, we are busy becoming like something. We are being spiritually shaped and influenced at all times. Mel helps raise our awareness to this reality by reminding us our lives are perfectly designed to shape us into who we are at this moment. If we want to be shaped into something different, we need to change the way we do life.

In the second part of our series called More Than Christians, Pastor Mel explains how real disciples commit themselves to be with Jesus. John Mark Comer said, "This is the first and most important goal of apprenticeship to Jesus: to be with him, to spend every waking moment aware of his presence and attentive to his voice. To cultivate a with-ness to Jesus as a baseline for your entire life." Disciples abide in Jesus, rooted in connection to him by the Holy Spirit. Mel maps out a threefold strategy for cultivating connection to Jesus: gathering with God's people, prayer, and transformed thinking. To be disciples of Christ we must choose to live a life that is always attentive to God.

Mel, Todd, and Michael discuss why being part of a healthy Christian community is necessary for maintaining individual resilience. The investments and sacrifices you make for others determine the quality of your own experience. Next they talk about why money is not a good source for personal resilience. The conversation turns to why challenging sermons are so positively received. The episode finishes with a proposal that there are good reasons to believe the American Protestant Church is making some critical mistakes. What would you change about the Church if you could change anything?

In the first message of our series called More Than Christians, Pastor Mel explains some background behind the usage of the term "Christian." Jesus never used the word "Christian" but in the Bible it means "little Christ." Followers of Christ were probably called "Followers of the Way" before they were called anything else. To give us some insight into what a true Christian should look like, Mel walks through what life was like for disciples who studied under a rabbi. Your life as a disciple had three goals: to be with your rabbi, to become like your rabbi, and to do as your rabbi did. Discipleship isn't a class, rather it's a way of life. Mel presents data suggesting while 63% of Americans identify as "Christians", only 4% are actually following Christ. He finishes the message with a challenge by asking us the question: Is this what Jesus died for?

Mel, Todd, and Michael discuss the principle of loving God first then loving your family - and how doing it in this order is actually the only way to love your family properly. What happens to the institution of the family as we become more godless? What are some common problems we see from people who idolize their families? Next they talk about how to stay motivated. What are some routines and practices you can put in place to keep you productive even when you don't feel like doing anything? The conversation finishes with a discussion of Christian resilience, and how resilience may become a master currency for the Church in the years to come.

In the fourth and final message of our series on the parable of the sower, pastor Mel delivers a sermon discussing the divine purpose of seed and fruit. In the first three messages we learned how a hardened heart, shallow roots, and the cares of this world all detract from our positive response to the gospel. In this message Mel teaches us what it looks like for a Christian to receive the seeds in fertile soil and yield a crop thirty, sixty, and even a hundred as much as had been planted. He discusses the fruit of the Spirit as markers for spiritual maturity. He also explains how some lost people will reject the preaching of the gospel while accepting the fruit of a life lived for Jesus. This phenomena reveals God's design for the seed and the fruit: the seed's purpose is to bear fruit, but the purpose of the fruit is to spread more seed.

In the third message of our series on the parable of the sower, Pastor Mel teaches about those who hear the gospel but are drawn away by the worries of this world and the lure of wealth. Often these people are racked with anxiety concerning temporary things like their career or even their familial relationships. Those who choose to serve wealth instead of serving Jesus have swallowed the lie that every problem is fixed with money. Sir Francis Bacon said, "Money is a great servant but a bad master." Mel preaches through selected scriptures and explains Christ's teachings on the cares of this world, the cost of discipleship, and seeking the kingdom of God above all else.

In the second sermon of our series called The Parable of the Sower, Pastor Mel explains the importance of being rooted in Christian community. What you are rooted in determines what your life is producing. People who are rooted in the love of Christ will be made complete with all the fullness of life and power that comes from God. A good question to ask ourselves in order to reveal where our roots are is, "What do we hold tightly when we find ourselves in crisis?" Aspen trees grow in community as their roots spread below the earth's surface and spring others to life to form a group. They are interconnected by their root system and share nutrients and resources to support each other. Resilient Christians are the same way as they join small groups and sacrifice for the community.

In the first message of our series called The Parable of the Sower, Pastor Mel teaches what it means to have a hardened heart. Preaching through Matthew 13, Mel explains why having a hardened heart prevents you from seeing and hearing God. The factors which contribute to a hardened heart are often associated with repetition. Repetition of pain can harden a person's heart, and repetition of performance can result in routines which make church mechanical instead of meaningful. Mel expresses how our hearts grow hard to beauty when beauty becomes routine. If you are unimpressed with God, if you are cynical of life, or if you see God as transactional, then this message is for you.

Pastor Kyle Hammond joins us for a special message on what it looks like to be a follower of Jesus. What do Christ followers know? What do Christ followers do? Kyle explains why, while we get to decide whether to be disciples of Jesus, we don't get to decide what a disciple of Jesus does. Disciples of Jesus are called to turn the other cheek, give the shirts off their backs, go the extra mile, help those in need, and give more than expected. Authentic belief must transform the way we behave because faith without works is dead. Pastor Kyle finishes his message with a challenge for us to decide whether Jesus is merely the Lord of our lips or truly the Lord of our lives.

Mel, Todd, and Michael open the conversation with the question of how much effort to spend stewarding the feelings of others versus encouraging them to be tougher. Next they talk about how to lead well when your followers don't understand your leadership decisions. How do you maintain relationships in the midst of deep divisions? The discussion shifts to the assurance of salvation and what to do if you're worried about whether you are saved. The conversation finishes with what it means to keep a clear conscience before God and how doing so will impact your ability to sleep.

In this special edition of the BACK40 Leadership Podcast, Pastor Kyle Hammond presents a leadership workshop on how to lead like Jesus. In order to lead like a shepherd you need to be intentional about forming relationships with the people you're leading. This means sacrificing yourself, investing time with others, and building intimacy with them. Kyle argues the best way to cultivate a heart of care is through prayer. A good leader is willing to be misunderstood, so they make decisions for the well-being of the people even if the people disagree with it. Q&A follows.

Mel, Todd, and Michael discuss a curious statement made recently by Professor Jordan Peterson. Is mental health actually external? Can sin damage your brain? Is psychological well-being determined by the narrative on which you construct your life? Next they talk about the importance of repeating personal testimonies. Should churches dedicate platform-time to sharing testimonies? The conversation finishes on a deeper note when the pastors are asked in which areas of their faith do they still wrestle with God.