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[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKKjlDNUwFk] Today’s podcast featuring the roundtable talks about the controversial relaunch of the OKI brand. We examine the potential motivating factors behind New Riff selling the label and if it’s a pure money grab by the new company that owns it. We then look at the current landscape of craft distillers and if they will survive the COVID-19 conditions as over 43% of all craft distillery workers have now been laid off or furloughed. Lastly, we see an age statement return to Knob Creek. Show Partners: You can now buy Barrell Craft Spirits products online and have them shipped right to your door. Visit BarrellBourbon.com and click Buy Now. Receive $25 off your first order at RackHouse Whiskey Club with code "Pursuit". Visit RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. Show Notes: This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about buying whiskey for cheap during the pandemic. OKI is being relaunched with new ownership. Why would New Riff do this and is it a money grab? 118 craft distillers surveyed recently, 42% said they do not believe they will able to stay in business for more than three months with COVID-19. Is the craft boom going to bust? The return of 12 and 9 year Knob Creek. What does this mean for private barrel selections? Thanks to Blake from bourbonr.com, Nick from BreakingBourbon.com , Brian from sippncorn.com, and Kerry from Subourbia for joining. Support this Podcast on Patreon   0:00 There's two things you can count on on the roundtable. That's I'm gonna be here and that my Internet's gonna go out. 0:17 Welcome back because it's Episode 253 of bourbon pursuit. I'm one of your hosts Kenny. And on our news this week, we selected a barrel of wheat whiskey from old elk. But we're also joined by special guest and master distiller Greg Metz, you might recall back from Episode 154, because he was also the previous master distiller for that big factory in Indiana we call MGP virtual barrel picks, they might be the new normal for a while, so we're looking forward to bringing more of those to you via live streams. So make sure that you are subscribed to our YouTube channel, so you don't miss a single one of them. Now onto the news. Will it distilleries master distiller drew Cole's Veen has been named a finalist for the coveted James Beard award. 1:00 Award for Outstanding wine, beer or spirits producer. The James Beard Foundation awards honor the best in food dining from cookbooks and rising shifts to the best restaurants and of course distilleries in the US. Time magazine even called it the Oscars of the food world. Drew Colvin first joined Willett distillery back in 2003. And overtime, he's developed mash bills that extend the company's bourbon and rye portfolio, which earned him for semi finalists nominations for the James Beard award. However, this is the first year that he's actually been named a finalist. So hats off to drew congratulations and awesome work on the recognition. The winners for the James Beard awards will be announced on September 25. 1:42 The 2020 release of the mixers 10 year old single barrel Kentucky straight bourbon whiskey will go on sale this may of 2020 it is 94.4 proof and it will sell for suggested retail price for around $130 in the US new bottles of larceny barrel proof and alarm 2:00 Craig barrel proof will be coming soon to a shelf near you both bearing the code B five to zero. The letter B means it's the second release of the year. digit five means it was released in the fifth month of the year, which is May. And the last two digits, you guessed it 2020 denote the year. The new batch of Elijah Craig barrel proof will come in at 127.2 which is on the lower end of the spectrum for the line. And the larceny barrel proof is now in its second release when you bottle that 122.2 proof and that's just one point lower than the initial first release, comprised of barrels ranging from six to eight years old. The larceny barrel proof will have a retail price of around $50 whereas the 12 year old Elijah Craig barrel proof will be around $80 you can look for both of these coming to a whiskey quickie in the near future. For those that enjoy the shutter Bock, we're from Texas comes a collaboration with bow Cody's and their new Texas Bach. It is a malt whiskey made from the exact recipe 3:00 shiner Bock beer, utilizing the breweries Nashville and proprietary lager yeast strain, to what they call create that remarkable flavor profile. It was Asian first fill American oak barrels for at least two years and made within Nashville of over 51% malted barley, about conus. Texas Bok will be bottled at 50% ABV and will be priced around $40. It will also be available for sale at the distillery and retailers throughout Texas and Oklahoma for a limited time and keep it on that Texas trailer bourbon. The garrison brothers bourbon distillery out of high Texas is releasing their garrison brothers bowl Maria bourbon. This bourbon is aged for four years in staves that have been dry aged for at least 25 months in the Ozarks. Then the liquid was transferred to a second new American barrel and aged for another year. Of course we all know is re barreling. It is finally bottled for this second release at 115 proof the 2020 bull Maria release 4:00 We'll be around 6000 bottles with a retail price of around $160. Now with more release News, New riff is doing their spring 2020 special release with the new riff back setter bourbon and rye. For this release, new rep really focused on sour mashing process and use the back set from the pizza malted barley in their mashing of their standard bourbon recipe. as they've mentioned, it resulted in a smoking flavor that is hauntingly unique with layers of peat envelopes a creamy spicy bourbon and rye. The back setter to pack will be listed for a total of $99 and 98 cents. And for today's podcast, we're featuring the roundtable it's another yet potentially controversial topic where we talk about the relaunch of the okay AI brand and we examine some of the motivating factors behind it not only just from New Roof but from the new owners as well. We then take a look at the current landscape of craft distilleries and if they will survive the current COVID-19 5:00 conditions. As a personal note, please make sure you're going out there and you're supporting your craft distillers. You're going to hear more about it in the podcast today. And lastly, we also talk about the return of H statements that we're seeing on a brand of knob Creek. We're all excited to see that now as well. Joe from barrel bourbon who wants you to know that it's gotten a whole lot easier to get their unique cash drink whiskies from around the world, just visit barrel bourbon.com and you can click the Buy Now button bourbon to your door. It's as easy as that. Up next is Fred minich with above the char, so continue to stay safe, and we'll see you out there soon. Cheers, everyone. 5:40 I'm Fred medic, and this is above the char. This is not going to be a pleasant above the char if you're someone who is eagerly waiting for the prices to drop because of the pandemic. Some time ago, I was having a conversation with somebody and I saw it also on Facebook and Twitter. This is a considered 6:00 A theme amongst people in the bourbon community talking about how they cannot wait for the bourbon to drop in price to take advantage of the pandemic. I thought to myself at the time, you know, it's it's not a very nice thing to think because if we drop in price, that means people are going to lose their jobs. That means businesses are going to be going bankrupt. That means the bourbon boom that we've known that's kind of helped support this podcast and other cottage industries such as Mint Julep tubers, and r&r limousine Pegasus, 6:38 such as the travel industry that has become Kentucky bourbon trail. That means if all those prices start dropping, and all those wholesale barrels go out on the market for far less than they were, oh boy, yeah, you can maybe get a 160 $5 bourbon for something like 40 bucks, but you know what, and also means somebody can't feed their face. 7:00 Family, that means somebody is going to be out of work that means that the industry that we have known and love that has been thriving and growing is on its way to a major, major decline. But when I first saw that I was just kind of just kind of like ignored it and kind of moved on. And then people like jack rose and silver dollar started putting up their products for sale out of survival. And I was like, wow, 7:29 okay, I get it. We're going to be okay, we're going to be okay. But as many of you know, I am also an active 7:38 an active vintage, you know, buyer and I'm always looking for the market for like, you know, rare gyms. I was having a conversation with somebody 7:48 about a week ago. And I was talking about like, all the lots that are up for sale. And he says, You know what, I'm going to wait just a little bit longer, a little bit longer. When people 8:00 People are much more desperate. 8:03 And I don't know why that bugged me so much, because that is a part of business when you are someone who was looking to buy something you do want to buy when the person is, you know, willing to sell for the least amount. And that just bugged me. And I'm not saying that we should. We should be overpaying for things in the vintage market. But I believe in fair markets, I believe in fair market value. I believe in paying for a rare bottle of dallying bottle and bond. 8:35 I believe paying for what it's actually worth and not waiting for someone to they can't feed their family. I think right now what we have seen in bourbon, to a lesser degree, but what we have seen with this pandemic, we have seen people for who they really are. We have two sides that are constantly bickering and fighting over how we should deal with this and blaming one another all the time. And then you have the 9:00 Majority of America right there in the middle trying to figure out what to do. And it seems we also have those who cannot wait for you to hit rock bottom so they can buy up your collections. So, if that's you, or if you know someone like that, I asked you to please not be that way to change your mind to think of this as like a moment of a human just being human. If somebody comes to you, you know, for you to buy their collection, or to buy a bottle, you know, even if it's out, you know, encourage them to do illegally, of course, but be fair about it. Be fair about it, because you don't know what that money can mean to that person's family. 9:48 And that's this week's above the char. Hey, if you have an idea for above the char during this pandemic, hit me up on Twitter, Facebook or Instagram, just search for my name, Fred MiniK. Cheers. 10:04 Hey everybody and welcome to the 44th recording of the bourbon Community Roundtable. We've got a lot of people joining us live tonight as we discuss a good popery of What's New in bourbon news. And thankfully, we won't have to talk much about COVID because that really hasn't really impacted much in the bourbon world. Everything is just kind of status quo. There's a few hints of releases coming out however, I think it's actually a good thing that hasn't happened because it keeps people away from going out and running and chasing bourbon right now in a time when you shouldn't be probably doing that. So everybody's kind of being a little safe. Ryan has your purchasing habits for bourbon decrease now? Yeah, all my funds have allocated towards to go margaritas swirl Margarita. 10:51 We do those carry out Margarita is like three times a week. It's like when we first started they would just give you the Margarita was in a straw and you're like, Oh well, you know 11:00 I guess I'd have in the car on the way home and then and then then they went to we can't give you a straw and you're like, Okay, so I start bringing out straws. And then they went to you have to order an appetizer when you get it. So now it's a, which is fine. So just get the chips and walk with it. But the swirl Margarita mojitos if you're in mobile, excellent. There you go. So that's what you've been spending your money on. I actually bought my first bottle in a while today I saw I went to my local store to go and buy some things. Oddly enough, I had to get more tequila because we are running low because of margaritas and such and considering we just kind of had, you know, Taco Tuesday and everything like that. And, you know, cinco demayo. So I think the one thing that I did buy was the the makers 101 that new like fancy box. So look for that in a whiskey quickie coming soon at some point when we can Yeah, exactly. So let's go ahead and let's, let's kick it off tonight because we've got a lot of good topics as we start diving into this. And so I'm gonna go with the person that that 12:00 In the middle towards the bottom you start with Brian Harris sipping corn everybody where you blog and then let's start with a fun fun question night indeed believe in ghosts yes I absolutely believe in ghosts and maybe I'll write a there's some whiskey blogs that I might need to do on on ghosts but they're they're true find me at sip and corn mostly on Twitter also Facebook and Instagram and online the the website is sip and corn calm you can also find it at bourbon justice calm. Thanks for having me again guess of course. And let's go to our good friend Carrie over here Carrie. How's it going? Good. Thanks guys for bringing me in tonight. Carrie from suburbia calm. It's up to you our bi a. You can find me on Twitter at bourbon underscore gamer and Instagram at suburbia. And yes, I absolutely believe in ghosts. And sometime when we're off on a tangent, I'll tell you all about the stories growing up in a house in Atlanta, that was definitely haunted. 13:00 Okay, well, I'm sitting on pins and needles can't wait. 13:05 Call me later, right? Yeah. 13:07 All right, Nick, your turn. Hey, everybody. Glad to see everybody tonight. I'm Nick one of three founders of breaking bourbon. Find us online at breaking bourbon calm and check us out on social media. All at breaking bourbon. We're on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, Patreon and now, tick tock so throwing up some videos up there too. And you gave in. I'ma be like, yeah, I joined you guys. We joined you guys, but I guess I'll burst the bubble here. I'm not a believer in ghosts myself. I like a good ghost story. But that's about as far as I go. So all right, Blake, you're up, buddy. All right. I'm Blake from burner and toolbox calm. You can find me on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, that's Bo you are Bo n r and then seal boxes. S e lb a CH 14:00 And I'm actually you know, let's see. Where's the vote Ed? I don't know for split but I'm with Nick on this one. Yeah, that can't can't go down that goes throughout. You know, maybe it was too many like, corny tours as a kid through St. Augustine, Florida, which is about 30 minutes from us that that did be in But no, if, you know, they've made 10,000 TLC and discovery show TV shows about it, they still can't track it down it goes, I'm gonna go ahead and say they don't exist. So 14:31 few more of these Bourbons, so and you never Yeah, you're right. It doesn't exist, but I can go to Instagram and see that it does exist. So that's 14:41 20 says the truth is out there. Ryan, did you believe in ghosts? Uh, sure. I don't know. Yes, Ghostbusters. Like one of my favorite like movies. So like, I gotta believe in it. You know, I had the whole you know, backpack and like thing you slide out and catch them. So right yeah. 15:00 I'm all for them. I mean, it just kind of makes me wonder if like bourbon and Ecto cooler would be a good combo then. Hey, I'm all for it. I mean even remember Ecto cooler that was like the the with Slimer. Like that was that flavor back in the day? Oh, shit, I was good. All right, so let's kind of move on to our first topic because I think this is one that is a little polarizing. And so this is something that has recently happened is that okay, I the brand that was originally owned by new roof and kind of what put new roof on the map is really kind of recalls they were putting out anywhere between 10 to I think like 14 or 15 year old 36% higher I MGP towards the end of it. We've had Ken Lewis of new riff on the podcast before telling his story about how he bought those barrels when he was still when he owned the party source up in Northern Kentucky. And then he finally found a way to be able to turn that into another business and then sell those as a way to kind of you know, really got 16:00 To get the launching point going for a new roof now what we found out is that the is that new roof has sold off the brand. And it is now being owned by two people. Then it also started the 16:14 blank. We're just about before we started the what were the brands where they started ramus Yes. 16:21 Yeah. What was the other? I don't know. We just we just totally blanked and we're terrible. I'm terrible hosts that I shot. 16:27 volstad except the one. Well, it was there's the Jordan grants George Freeman. I really want I know of offhand, but exactly the MGP burn. Yeah, MPP bought it from them. They got 16 from them. So let's kind of break this down a little bit because the one thing that that I'm kind of looking at this I look at it in the first aspect and I'll kind of throw this out there is why would new riff want to sell? Okay, I Well, I mean, I think that you know, they've kind of made it clear that they want to be all about the district. 17:00 They waited those four years. Okay, I served this purpose. So why not cash in on it? You know, I don't know what the you know usually go on like a base of 17:11 sales multiples and that kind of thing for a brand. So this is probably a little bit different, but we talked about it a little before of, it's kinda like the black Maple Hill, you know, black Maple Hill was this old brand. That 17:24 I guess was it originally with kbd? Or will it in a, you know, the people out of California bought it and it dropped out of quality? Then it moved to Oregon in. I can't tell you how many people say, Hey, I found a bottle of black Maple Hill and it's like, well, is it in a short squat model? Because you're not going to want to drink it for 100 bucks. Right? But that but that business model works, you know, people they've heard about this brand, it's got a little clout in the community. 17:51 So why don't I go ahead and and, you know, put some more bourbon in it. But I get that i think i think my my question is 18:00 Why would why would new ref and why would Ken Lewis actually want to get rid of something like they had something for so long it was it was successful. There's nothing that said they couldn't revive it years down the road. Why would they just take it and sell it to somebody else like it? That's one part that I'm still trying to figure out how to understand here. So I think they I think originally actually dug up I was looking around at websites actually dug up a website that's that's still out there. And it's new riff I think their old website I'm going to share it up here on on YouTube but it's got a whole kind of page dedicated Okay, I I'm not sure this is supposed to still be up or not on the web. But you know, I almost feel like they've kind of at this point realized their success with new roof is so strong that that idea of ever going back that okay, I brand as part of new roof. Maybe they've just gotten to the point where they said we just we just don't need it. That's not part of the vision anymore. You know, the idea was it was always going to be a short term brand. 19:00 I think but I get it, you kind of hold in your back pocket just in case you know, 10 years 15 years down the road, you may want to reintroduce it. It's almost as if now they're looking saying you know what, we're not going to do anything with it. We still like the brand if we've got people that are interested in taking that brand to a new height, we don't want it go ahead guys. You guys take it and we're doing our thing over here. So I think it's a lot attributed to numerous success that they've had now in the idea that there they probably don't plan on putting any resource into Okay, I or didn't for a long time and they're saying if somebody else is going to so be it, take it we'll take a little money and be done with it. Yeah, I agree with that. I mean, they think about the single barrels that had a lot of success in 2019 and a lot of them were new riff I mean they're they're proud of what they got with good reason. To me you know, think of another example Who else could do this and it's smooth Ambler. It's like smooth Ambler getting rid of old scowl once they have their own distillate. That's that's a bigger scale, I think and that would be really surprising if they ever did that. 20:00 That's the same idea once you're once you're proud of your own distillate and your own product you move toward that and and help keep the lights on by selling a brand did that did okay I ever get distributed outside of Kentucky Ohio and Indiana 20:18 the small that it wasn't much outside was it? I don't think so. I think Yeah, I was like the tri state area was what they had like 50 barrels in total right or it wasn't like there was massive amounts was there dudes a finite number of barrels they started with and that was always the idea was it was just going to fun there next thing you know it's never going to be a brand that continued in it was never going to be a brand new we're going to go try to source more to somehow continue at least that's what the how the story goes. Yeah cuz new is made its way now and it's coming to Georgia. And yeah, I feel I kind of with Brian. On that whole thing. You put your initial investment into that that one company but once you see that you 21:00 your heart and your soul is in the product that you're making and the label that you're proud of. It's like, what's the point of keeping behind? You know, I mean, money speaks at the end of the day, right? So, you know, you make money from selling that label, why not? Yeah. And then the last time we were there, I mean, they got a ton of like, expansion going and building stuff. And it's like, they probably could have used the cash. You know, the capital. I mean, I don't know how lucrative of a deal it was just to sell the brand off. But it might be to to meet some short term cash needs that they need to, you know, keep growing the new roof brand and it's like, Hey, you know, Hell, I can't tell you how many Okay, I bottles I passed on like, just because I was like, I just MGP again, you know, who? Stupid me But uh, yeah, I mean, I don't know. I mean, it probably. I don't know how valuable that brand is really. I mean, it's somewhat noticeable. But I'd say in the grand scheme of thing it's not, you know, that well known of a brand in the grand scheme of things. I mean, we as hobbyists, we know, aka Okay, 22:00 All right, I want to go out and ask 20 people, you know, if they've heard of it, they haven't heard it yet. I can tell you people were like, okay, that, okay, bring it, 22:10 bring it to a big market and see if anyone knows anything about it. And yeah, I don't think they would, I think they're gonna have to put a lot of effort into it to really get the snowball rolling again and take it anywhere from from where it kind of is sitting right now, you know, beyond that, the tightly knit enthusiast market, but I don't think it has that massive, you know, appeal of like other big brands, but it's an easier story to tell of, you know, where it came from, and people kind of, oh, have you heard a new riff and you know, it kind of it. For me, it's just an easier segue for retailers to explain to customers why they're charging $120 per bottle, but yeah, we'll see. And so I kind of want to put a thought in about, you know, the whole sales aspect because I look at this, as let's rewind the clock back like 23:00 I'd say a while ago, you know, when other brands were basically doing mash trading of labels and distilleries to basically stay afloat. And Ryan, you're probably right. Maybe this was something to get a quick cash grab, because who knows in 10 1520 years, if anybody's gonna care about it, but it could also be in 10 2015 years, when people like us for like, holy shit, it's back like, Oh my god, right? Like, we would have like a party about it. This is just kind of like, Oh, this seems a little weird, right? I mean, yeah, it's weird. And it's like, if it's just two guys doing it, and you look at a business venture out of it, like how much do you really think they paid for it? 10,000 20,000 If you really think they paid like $50,000 for this brand. Oh, I was thinking at least 100,000 I was thinking 100 myself too. I was thinking I was I was also thinking New Roof might they might have told this story. You know, these guys might have told a story. This is our plans with it. And that could have been something that the folks at New riff kind of said okay, we're kind of seeing the vision. 24:00 And we're, it's not just about the money, it's about the idea that you're going to do something with this brand that we're never going to do and that we don't want to do, and don't have any plans to do. And that might have been part of it too, because they did talk about kind of retelling that story and, you know, doing some things with this brand to kind of revitalize, which obviously, they need to do. But that may be part of it as well be really interesting to know what was paid for it. Yeah, gosh, I wouldn't think I just couldn't imagine paying more than, like, 25 $30,000 for it, but maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. I just think I think I see. I'm trying to think of like a I'm just trying to think of like percentage of business that limited releases are you know, for for Okay, or anyone and it's not that much and then you're trying to think about the margin you make on that and I'm like, okay, that just doesn't seem like a valuable that much. Like, I wouldn't pay much more than that to to profit off that name, I guess but maybe I don't know. I'm an idiot. So who knows? When they're when the bottles come out and see how expensive they are? Then you'll know how much Yeah, you'll figure it out. Really quick. 25:00 Yeah. And so that kind of like tails and dovetails in the next part because we we look at this from our perspective and our perspective as enthusiasts and also keep this in mind. Nobody gave a shit about Okay, I until the MGP. hype train started. Right, right. I mean, it was around for a while some people were getting some bottles, they were 1213 years old people like that, then all of a sudden the MGP chasers came around, cleared those out, then kept going and moving to the next distillery until every distillery is basically cleared out of this high aged MGP. So one thing that people have to understand is that this will not be the same product as you had before. And if you want it to be that, maybe you should not buy a bottle and wait additional 10 years, and maybe it'll be there because we all know that what's available in the market today that you're going to get from a GP is probably around five years old. If you're lucky, maybe six. And so I guess we we look at this and we think like okay, if you are going to be under new ownership with this, how like what is that price point do you think that you need to be at 26:00 Do you look at this as like a pure speculation of just like, hey, let's just ride the coattails of a brand that was known by a bunch of people in a bourbon community in the tri state area, and then try to make a national brand out of it. But what's that? What's that price point got to be at to be able to do that? And how do you stay competitive against everybody else in the market? Who's pushing MGP? Because you're not you're not you're not unique anymore? Let's keep it to say they're gonna be MGP, though. I mean, oh, you know that? Yes, because it says it in the press release that they are sourcing. 36% high right. MGP to do this brand, they're not steering away from what it was before. Yeah, you gotta be at like $100 or more. I think $40 is a good price point for if you're looking for something that you want to say I want to take it national, I want this to be just about every state or every state. It's somewhat similar to other Bourbons out there, you're going to buy it because the flavor because the label, maybe the story a little bit, but I think $40 is kind of that sweet spot where you're not 27:00 so high that people are just going to ignore it and bite your high enough that they're going to look at it as an elevated brand out there so if they're putting out a $40 bottle and it's hitting everywhere I think with the right marketing behind it and a decent flavor decent age I think they I think they could do it and make it something like like smooth Ambler we're seeing that coming coming back now and that's at that price point. For example, you know if they want to go higher if they want to go into this 70 hundred dollar range they're gonna have to really we've quite a story I mean, think Kentucky owl kind of you know, they're gonna have to source some stuff that we didn't really know was available to source or that was, you know, kind of a surprise to kind of hit those higher numbers or they go above 100 but be interesting to see if they kind of go towards that limited premium side or if they go towards that make it available to everybody side on that lower price. I think you guys underestimate the ridiculousness that people will pay. Yeah, or ridiculousness. Well said I always think of my head. 28:00 Is that heaven store? bourbon. That was that total wine? I think it was like 399 or 499 I'm sure it was sourced from somewhere. Maybe MGP have a bootleg one. Yeah, the one that was like it was like, seven years. It was like 27 years old. No, not that one. It wasn't that old. But it said something like, here's heading included a guitar string from somebody and had a leather bound notebook and and it was 499 and I'm thinking nobody's gonna buy that this is bullshit. And a week later, all three of them were sold out. You know, I think it's, it's, this is the ideal market. If you want to push into you know, marketing bullshit. This is the market for it right now. People are gonna buy what you put out. And all you need to practically do is charge a high price. Yeah. And a fancy bottle. Fancy bottle has got instant prestige and there might not be anything to it. Yet 29:00 Yeah, as the comment is right now just put a horse on the bottle and it's 29:05 that's it. I think this is a mark. It's a perfect mark. Well, you know, Douglas Pendleton put it in the chat. Price dries perception. And that is extremely true in today's market. It's like, well, it's under dollars. It's gotta be better than the bottle. That's $50 Yeah. Why would they only charge 50? If it's worth 100? Yeah, cuz they had to pay $200,000 for the brand, right? 29:30 It just went out and he says the price is double Blake. Yeah, just double. Yeah, I mean, the one thing that I see this and this is just from a pure whiskey perspective, is that we've we've seen this story before. And we've seen and we've tasted this whiskey before. And we know a bunch of different places that are putting out five year MGP 36% high rye, sorry, all it's not ready yet. In my opinion, it's still not there. And I think there's still going to be a lot more time that needs to go into the barrel to actually make this live up to the hype. 30:00 what it was before and so you're gonna have the same exact people that are getting burned by the same products and then it's just gonna be history repeating itself. Yeah. Are y'all ready for the big reveal? It's me and Kenny who bought it? 30:17 totally get it 30:21 opens and it's $1,000 is that is that pursuit release 340 30:27 Yeah, episode 30:29 together. Yeah, we're getting our own boxes that have like hydraulic lifts in it that just like raise it up three inches so you can take it off its pedestal. They're they're holograms of Kenny's tic Tock videos. 30:42 We've got to take the sticker game to the next level, right? We've just had to figure out how to do that to make people really want to know what's what took the sticker game to the next level and is underappreciated is gifted horse. It was a terrible whiskey. But did you know it was Scratch and sniff? Yeah, I don't know if everybody I can't believe you. 31:00 Nobody I can't believe no one else has done that after that because it's such a crazy funny idea to me. I want a bottle just so I can have a scratch and sniff label again, like I don't even care that the whiskey sucks. I want gifted horsetail. man you love orphan barrels, I do like a round table Buffalo Trace for a gifted horse. It's worth $140. 31:23 Get on it, man. Make it happen if you can. Alright, so let's let's kind of move on to the next subject because this one is it's kind of a sore subject. This is definitely dealing with COVID and everything that that's been going on because according to a survey that has been released by the distilled spirits Council of the United States, as well as the American distilling Institute, with a survey of 118 craft distillers they found that two out of three have worried not only about the short term, but also the long term survival of their business. And 42% believe that they will not be able to stay in business for more than three months, and another 21% of worry that they will go out of business for the next three months. And I believe 32:00 We've also said that 43% of all craft distillery workers across the US right now have either been laid off or furloughed. So we look at this right now that we're potentially in the craft boom bust. Now, the the question for you all that I kind of have with this is that in a capitalist sort of mentality and opportunity here, why aren't more big players in this game, trying to swallow up craft distilleries? For dimes on $1 right now? 32:33 Before before y'all Sorry, guys, y'all know a lot about this, but I just have a question do they say? I mean, did they say why? They're struggling because it seems like the spirit tree is booming, right? 32:47 Yeah, local distilleries, they own their yard. So like they really depend on tours and, you know, local events and tourism. You know, I was I was digging into that more to carry because everywhere you're seeing is how 33:00 All sales are up, and you've seen it all over the place, if you're not seeing it on the news, seen it with people, you talk to just your friends and family and so forth. You know, I was looking at that too and started digging around a little bit about that, and kind of found this this whole kind of changing dynamic of this idea that people aren't buying on premise now that they're buying from the online retailers or some of the big brick and mortars you know, for the most part, and that's that hurts. They're basically the these craft distillers or major margin is what they're selling on premise with their bars, the restaurants, the stuff they're selling directly with the bottle, so where they're seeing their profit is basically dried up, even though they might be still selling some of their product. But then a lot of that stuff being bought online is the big name, lower price kind of stuff that people are just, you know, kind of repetitively buying. So all this crap stuffs going to the wayside. And these guys are sitting on a lot of them and insane amounts of debt that they need to service and it's a very short it's really pretty sad. I hope they don't 34:00 Go under to the you know, to the extent that it looks like they could, but it's a very short window for them to either survive this thing or not survive this thing. 34:08 I didn't think about how much is that how much of their revenue is from people coming in and on site? So they make a lot of their profit derivative. Yeah. 30% is a pretty conservative estimate for most craft distilleries have tasting rooms. 34:25 And, you know, they have a bar and that kind of stuff, it could be even higher. And, you know, so all that's just gone out the window. So they're kind of making up with it with hand sanitizer trying to, you know, do what they can into next point. You know, whenever people are buying for a pandemic, they're grabbing, grabbing fodder grabbing. Yeah, I think I think that's a good point. It's like, people are drinking more, but they're not, you know, like one seven fives of like Evan Williams, and that's what they're, you know, that's what most people are grabbing for. They're not going for the higher price craft stuff. And so it's a and do it like 35:00 You know people are buying alcohol but you know, restaurants and bars are like zero. And so they you know, a lot of the tastes like you all said the tasting rooms and visitor centers, you know that these guys depend on or just it's gone from to zero and so and I don't really think they're getting any help either I mean the PPP stuff goes to two employees and a little bit to rent and that's not their expenses I mean they they have a lot of suck sunk and expenses that they're just not really getting anything from the government on here. Yeah, you know, their revenue and they've still got a, you know, fun that Vendome still and their construction costs and everything else there. I mean, it's it's serious. I agree with Matt. Matt's comment there that hand sanitizer production has kind of caught up now. Yeah, yeah. So what do you they don't need to do that anymore, either. Yeah. And they struggle with that, too. A lot of regulations were tricky. A lot of them ended up making it and not even really being able to sell it. 36:00 They just, you know, made it a lot of pro bono. And a lot of cases that really wasn't a moneymaker per se. I think they just got stuck in a place where they didn't really need to produce whiskey and they were trying to help and, you know, trying to keep staff. Yeah, and a lot of these places have a pretty low staff count to, you know, to Brian's point. There's not a lot of people that work in a small craft distillery, usually, a lot of times, it's actually just the owners, maybe that are that are working there. You know, and they're there. A lot of times they have just an incredible amount of debt to service that even in a perfect world when everything's going well. It's a hard business. So you just you just pull out one little piece, you know, it's like a thing of Jenga pull out one piece the whole thing's gonna topple. And it's very, very well could be the piece I'd be curious Blake, what you're seeing on the sealed box side, from the, you know, kind of like the online sales side there and people approaching you from the craft distilleries. I mean, what's kind of been your feel for these folks that you are 37:00 pretty well. Yeah. So a lot of them are, you know, definitely feeling the feeling the effects of it. Most are making it but most are making it we got it. Yeah, no, no, I'm like, What can we send Blake an arrow or something? Like, uh, I think it's I think it's fun for my computer. Oh, 37:20 it's a ghost behind you, Blake. I left the podcast almost two years ago and Blake's internet still stayed the same. 37:30 So true. True. I, you know, I, I would say as much 37:35 as this has been damaging for so many small businesses and restaurants and bars and distilleries, and etc. I kind of feel like maybe we're getting close to good news starting to prevail and hopefully coming out of this thing within a month. I mean, you start to look at at least here in Georgia, we buckled down March 14 is when pretty much everybody 38:00 Went indoors and 38:02 our hospitals are at a very low rate right now. And I'm just hopeful that we can kind of come back out now and support these craft distillers I know that right before everything hit the fan. wilderness trail was distributed here in Georgia. And I kinda was just very curious to see how their sales went. And my local store had bought a couple cases of their they had the weeded the regular bourbon and the the rye. And all of it has to has sold pretty well. He said he's ordered more of it. So hopefully, we can get out of this thing and get back to these craft distillers. This is the one thing that that kind of strikes me a little bit. So I'm sitting here I'm trying to read the chat. And there's some people that are saying like, oh, like, it doesn't matter, like their whiskey sucks. It's too young as to whatever. Like this is the this is the moment this is the movement that we need, unless you want to keep drinking the same whiskey from the same six distilleries for the rest of your life. And I think that 39:00 Blake made a very good point in his presentation that he did at whiskey from home during that that online conference and saying that if you're buying craft whiskey, you're not trying to buy something that is just as good or comparable as the big guys. Instead, what you're doing is you're trying to get something that makes you drink or taste something different, right? Like you're finding either new grains, you're finding new ways that the they you know, they put it like a different age proof or they you know, they did whatever it is different because we all know that if you go to heaven Hill, or you go to a beam, you go to these different places. They've got, you know, like one, two, maybe three or four recipes, and they are cranking out stuff like on that still 24 hours a day. They're not changing. They're not experimenting, right? And so it's it's really hard for you to sit there and try to figure out like, okay, like, I hope your palate or your taste doesn't change over the next 1020 years because that's essentially what we're going to get. And I know it's been a bad rap on a lot of craft distilleries that they get, you know like in this, this, basically 40:00 pigeonholed in this part where they said like, oh, sorry, Your whiskies too young. It's two, three years old. And it's, you know, it doesn't meet my flavor profile. I get it. I'm kind of with you there. But we've got to be able to give them a chance to be able to get to the point here at 5678 910 years old when this whiskey is really going to start being mature and it does taste phenomenal that we've got a lot of options out there as consumers. So yep, yeah. And Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Bruce Russell and JoAnn Street both know their Wild Turkey distillation and family history like the back of their hand. Both have been brand ambassadors but are now transitioning to new roles. While JoAnn is developing the hospitality side, Bruce is learning the ins and outs of the distillery. This show dives into the personalities of these two as we discuss the effect of bringing fresh faces to the distillery and how they plan on keeping traditions alive. Show Partners: Barrell Craft Spirits blends cask strength, high quality spirits to explore the effects of different distillation methods, barrels and aging environments. Find out more at BarrellBourbon.com. Receive $25 off your first order with code "Pursuit" at RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. Show Notes: Episode 186 we feature Pam Heilman of Michter’s Distillery 150 bottles remaining from 4 barrels of Pursuit Series This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about fake whiskey. JoAnn, do you want to get into working in the distillery? Bruce, are they going to make you join the union? How are you related to Jimmy? How did you decide to get into the family business? Talk about being a female in whiskey. What does it mean to be new blood in the company? Tell us about your background and how it will help with working in the distillery. Did they have a daycare for you at the distillery when you were young? What is your favorite Wild Turkey product? Do you see yourself living in Lawrenceburg? Give us your typical brand ambassador spiel for 80 proof and 101. Tell us about Rare Breed and Kentucky Spirit. Why is 101 Rye important? 0:00 There's those 0:00 weird beetles that we got out here. 0:02 Yeah. Does that what does that mean that they're like stink bugs and know what they are? Yeah, yeah, at least that's what I know 0:16 that say that one for the blooper reel. 0:29 Welcome back. This is Episode 199 of bourbon pursuit. I'm one of your host Kenny. And to go through a little bit of news back on episode 186. We featured Pam Hyman of Victor's distillery. Pam talked about her extensive history working in bourbon that began at the Booker no plant. She's had a long tenured career and was named the master distiller Victor's back in October of 2016. However, last week, Pam announced she is retiring from actors, and Dan McKee will be taking over as the new master distiller. We wish him all the best in her retirement, and you can look forward to hearing her one last time when we release her interview with Fred Minnick at the Kentucky Derby museums legend series. It might be the worst kept secret in history, and I think it even gets a mention in today's episode, but the fourth wild turkey masters keep released titled Cornerstone will likely be a nine year old rye according to the filings with the TTP. The label describes it as the cornerstone as a Kentucky straight rye whiskey batch 0001 bottle at 109 proof aged a minimum of nine years and approved by Eddie Russell. However, we all sort of knew this was coming for a while. also kind of fun to note, if you go in a barrel, pick a wild turkey there is going to be a few ride barrels just for sampling fun. Just another reason to love those Russell's. We've had both our guests back on the Russell's family episode, which was 175. But this time, Joanne and Bruce get to have a moment in the spotlight. Both know their wives, Turkey distillation and family history like the back of their hand. We know this firsthand. Because on our last Russell's reserve barrel pic, we have Joe in actually giving us the tour for the podcast. And this show dives into their personalities. Because these two are very vibrant. They know what they're doing. And we discussed the effect of bringing fresh faces into the distillery and how they plan to keep some of these traditions that me as you understand here in a little bit how it try to keep those alive. We've got about 150 bottles remaining from our four barrels of pursuit series. These are ranging anywhere from 10 to 14 years old. And we're excited, we're going to be bringing two new more barrels in May. One last one of these is actually going to be a five year week from Finger Lakes distilling. And you can get information about these barrels such as their proof and the story behind them as well as you can get them shipped to your door at pursuit spirits.com. Now sit back and relax and here our friend Joe over a barrel bourbon. And if you want here more Joe, make sure you follow us on all our social media channels because our next live recording at downwind bourbon bar is going to be featuring Joe Beatrice of barrel so make sure you stay tuned for that. And as always, you've got Fred Minnick with above the char. 3:16 Hi, this is Joe Beatrice from barrel bourbon. We blend cast right high quality spirits to explore the effects of different distillation methods, barrels and ag environments. Use our store locator to find a retail or a bar near you at barrel bourbon calm. 3:30 I'm Fred Minnick, and this is above the char 3:34 and a recent Twitter survey. I asked the question, do you think fake Pappy Van Winkle is in circulation and American retailers and restaurants? 86% of the 861 voters said yes. Now my followers tend to be a little bit more cynical and on the whiskey geek side. But think about this for a moment. Some of the most enthusiastic people and all of spirits American whiskey fan 4:01 tend to think that there's fake Pappy Van Winkle in circulation. 4:06 That means someone is going to be buying a fake bottle or poor of Pappy Van Winkle. Now, how is this possible? And the times we live in? How is it possible that we can continue to face these types of issues, fraudulent activity on something as as benign as an American whiskey? It's ridiculous. But we've seen it in scotch, there are people serving time in prison for wine. We even had the Pappy Van Winkle heist a few years ago where Buffalo Trace employees stole from their own employer and tried to resell it. 4:45 The fact is, as long as people can make money, it will always happen people will always try to circulate fraudulent bottles into the marketplace. And there's not a whole lot we can do about it. But there is one thing, one thing that everyone out there can do. And that's putting an end to the selling of empty bottles on eBay. Get on eBay right now and just search Pappy Van Winkle empty bottle. Now I came across one that was selling for $700 and the guy had empty in quotation marks. And you know, frankly, I just saw read and kind of went off on it and Instagram. But he was really probably trying to sell a full bottle now that I think about it. But nonetheless, you will still find a number of Pappy Van Winkle bottles for sale. You'll also find empty orphan barrels and Buffalo Trace antique collection and four roses limited editions and you'll see older mixers bottles being for sale. And there's they serve no purpose to be sold as empty bottles, other than to for someone to refill them at another time. because no one's sharing the shit making candles, armor lamps. So if you're someone who's putting an empty bottle in eBay, I just want you to know that you're part of the problem. Oh, you may need money. I understand that. And if you've done a once, you know, I hope you got the funds you needed. But if it's consistently happening, and this is part of a business plan that you have or this is something that you hope to break in and become like a special follow on eBay. Well then sir, ma'am, you are causing us a whole lot of headaches and American whiskey right now. Because there's a good chunk of us who do not trust that good Pappy Van Winkle, or Buffalo Trace antique collection is legitimate. And if you are selling MTS on eBay, you are one of the biggest pariahs in American whiskey right now. There I said it. 6:55 Think about that, if we can put an end to selling empties on eBay, we may be able to put a dent in some of the fraudulent activity we've seen on the secondary market. And worst case scenario in retail or in restaurants. So I don't know what to do about it. It's not illegal. 7:16 People can do what they want with an empty bottle. But if you have an empty bottle, display proudly on your mantel, or take it outside and break them on the fucker with a sledgehammer. I don't care. But don't put it on eBay. 7:31 And that's this week's above the char this this subjects get me pretty pissed off. So if you have something that might piss me off, hit me up on Twitter, or Instagram at Fred Minnick. That's at Fred Minnick. Until next week. Cheers. 7:48 Welcome back to the episode of bourbon pursuit the official podcast of bourbon. Kenny here recording once again in Lawrenceburg at wild turkey Hill, home of wild turkey bourbon. And this has been a serious recordings that we have been doing. However, we have two new guests to the show that had not been on previously because we have had Jimmy and Eddie on. And we've got a few of the wild turkey super fans that have been on before as well. But this one we kind of looked at and we said there's got to be some more faces, right. And there's a lot of new faces that are starting up and become better the younger generation of bourbon, or what Fred and some other cells are starting to call this even the media people like the new regime of it, right because we've got a lot of people that are older authors and they're trying to do something different and we're doing podcast now. And now we've got some new blood that are starting to enter the the whiskey world in itself. So with that, I'm going to go ahead and introduce our guests. So we have got Bruce Russell, who is the global was the global brand ambassador gonna go ahead and introduce yourself. 8:48 Yeah, how's it going, guys? I was just the brand ambassador, there's just only ever one of us I was like all of them whatever there would be I would do. 8:57 But now they've got me transitioning to be more than a story hopefully take over and 9:02 do a lot of the same stuff that dad Jimmy did. So we'll talk about that one then we also have Joanne and Joanne is it st them I saying that correctly? Okay. 9:09 Yeah, so I do a little bit of brand ambassador work but I also help out and the visitor center with you know, all the events and whatnot that go on kind of all over the place. 9:19 So let's go ahead and that's a that's a good way to kind of kick started so you you're going in and doing a lot of like the events and stuff like that Do you do you want to follow in any other footsteps to like get into the the distillation, the warehouse, the actual jobs of what's actually happening inside of the distillery now. 9:34 So for me, I have a little bit of a different story, like Bruce grew up coming to the distillery whereas I grew up in Tennessee, and then decided to move up to Kentucky. But right now I'm committed. Great. 9:47 Thank 9:47 you. I think I'm liked a little bit more now and the Russell family because 9:51 you don't wear like a bunch of orange around the house. Okay, so you're not a volunteer went 9:54 to the University of Kentucky. So okay, well, pretty hard cats fan. But for me, I think I'm just still trying to find my way in this industry. And right now I'm really enjoying the marketing aspect of the job, and just really getting to interact with different bartenders and people who truly love what you do here. And it makes me more passionate and want to be better at my job, as well. So for right now, I think, let Bruce, Eddie and Jimmy make all the good juice. And then I'll just be out there talking about it sharing the wild turkey love. 10:22 So you don't have any dreams or aspirations to want to do that. 10:25 Maybe in the future. But right now I'm enjoying what I'm doing. 10:28 Maybe like a summer internship, something like that to learn the distilling operation. 10:33 Yeah, we'll see. I think once Bruce gets here, I've learned a lot from him. We're kind of really good buddies, and definitely who I look up to the most. So I'm sure once he gets back here and kind of doing his thing, I'll probably be very intrigued in that as well. But I'm really enjoying what I'm doing right now. So 10:47 awesome. And so Bruce will will kick that over to you. So you have been now you live in Austin, Texas right now. Correct. 10:55 Kind of kind of all right. So I haven't lived there much this year. So he's got a home back. 11:02 They've got me moving back for sure. Permanently here in Kentucky, January one. It was actually supposed to be sometime this year. So my jobs kind of in a transition phase where I've really probably spent the most time here in Lawrenceburg at the distillery this year, as opposed to 300 days on the road last year, but I'm still doing a little bit of the ambassador work. We've hired somebody to take over as a national level ambassador, but I guess they don't. They don't they treat everybody a little bit nicer than us. So they didn't make your family. Yeah, they didn't make him travel 315 days. So he only has the West Coast. So I'm filling in a little bit on the East Coast, Joanne's feeling a little bit on the east coast and some of the smaller markets. 11:38 So you guys are starting to understand what it's like to live in the Delta sky lounge. 11:43 Exactly. Yeah. And we are Delta 13 through me, dad, Jimmy, I think all of us. 11:48 Yeah, we've we've talked about it, to an extent, at least with Eddie and I, because I was a Delta person at one point when I was traveling. So we talked about sky lounges and sort of how you get used to 11:58 lean and do while they weren't Southwest. With his wild turkeys. So yeah, and Jimmy was buddies with herb. And like, I think that's kind of how that wild turkey thing got started. 12:08 But now I've 12:09 worn by bugs out here, by the way. So if you see us on camera, and we're dodging we even it's, it's because we're just bug just flying everywhere. And we are recording outside. So if you hear trucks going on the background, it's because of the limestone quarry that they are just trucking stuff in and out of, you know, it was funny, we were actually recording another episode and trying to figure out, you know, where Bruce was going to start coming into here, because Eddie actually was part of the Union when he started coming in here. And Jimmy was sort of laughing a little bit because he made him do that. Now they're going to make us start joining the union to and sort of work your ranks up you think, you 12:44 know, the know, and it's a cute story now, but 12:50 he wasn't as cute back in the day, there's, you know, there's some real animosity between him about how that got started. I don't even think that many originally wanted to work here. You know, now they are, they work well together, we make amazing whiskey. 13:04 But I won't have to do the exact same thing dad did. His dad was kind of forced to go the union without a college degree. And I'm coming in with a little bit of background in the job and with a degree in some chemistry under my belt and stuff and been having doing the apprenticeship. So I would assume that I'm going to have to do the same type of things. But I probably won't be a union employee. I'll probably be a company employee, but their plan is to get me as soon as possible into the warehouse. And one thing we did forget to mention is so you are Eddie son. 13:35 Oh, yeah. So we got forgot to get all about the family lineage. Point. So 13:40 yeah. Jimmy Russell Mini is what we call it means it is our grandfather, Eddie occur master distillers, my father, and then he is joins uncle. But as far as Walter, he's concerned, you know, Jimmy me was not the first one to work here. My grandmother worked here before he did, and was basically the reason he got a job here. And then his father had worked here even before my grandmother did. And as far as I know, his grandfather was maybe the first person to work in a distillery here in Lawrenceburg, and Anderson County. And he worked at the Old Joe plant, which I believe was the precursor to what eventually became for roses. 14:19 So talk about your side, like, did you did you look at coming into this and saying, like, I just, I just need a job guys. Like, can we can we have some fun here? Or did you have this aspiration of wanting to be a part in the family business? 14:34 Yeah. So growing up, I always went to different events that they threw, like outside of the distillery, whether it be bourbon festival, or like the national Wild Turkey Federation down in Nashville. And I've always kind of had interest in it. But when I turned 21, I started out giving tours at the visitor center and just kind of working there as a summer job. And the longer I was there, the more passionate I got about it. And when you really get here, and you see what Jim Eddie do here, and then what Bruce has done the past few years, you just kind of you love it, you can't get out of it. It's addicting. And when you see that passion, you don't want to do anything else. 15:10 You use that word passion a lot right about what you what you see inside the family. Yeah. So are you looking at making this a lifelong career Wild Turkey? Are you looking this is like this is this has been fun? 15:21 No, I'd love to, I'd love to work here. And it's not just the family, it's the people. A lot of our employees have been here for very long time. And I think that says a lot to our company and who we are as a brand, that it's not just Jimmy and Eddie that have been here forever. We've got people that have worked here, 2030, 4050 years. So you saying there's other 15:38 people we should have on the podcast to be saying to me, 15:42 if you want to 15:43 tell you the real truth, maybe you don't like that. 15:47 So yeah. 15:49 So another question for you. While you're still we're talking on Joanne here, kind of talk about what it is being you know, we will talk about being sort of a younger generation here in a second. But you've been very female, because right now you have a lot of females that are starting to make their presence, you've got fond Weaver of uncle nearest you've got Marian eaves of castle and key. You've got the bourbon women's society that's starting to grow on hundreds of members now. So do you do you see this as like a great push for for, you know, involvement of women into whiskey to 16:22 absolutely and I've got to be a part of women and whiskeys a lot. So their Instagram page, they've got a ton of followers, but also just the support. Because I'm sure like Jimmy said back in the day, it really wasn't gentleman's drink and not so much anymore. And he likes saying that i think i think he does. Yeah, 16:38 he's got he got this little like, twinkle in his eyes, like, 16:41 just a demand. 16:42 Maybe maybe the good old days. I don't know. 16:44 It's awesome. It's a great time to be in the industry. It's booming right now. And it's not just whether it be brand ambassador work, but bartenders and just industry in general is, is growing insanely right now. And I'm just thankful to be a part of it. 16:59 So let's talk about sort of new blood, right? Like what it means to be new blood in here. Do you do you think that this is because Jimmy it said it before right? It's it's an old man's drink it was something that just just kind of just pretty stagnant for a while DC is a new regime or new blood coming in? That's kind of reinvigorating this market. 17:18 Absolutely. I would definitely say so. And it's it's everywhere. And I don't think it's just in bourbon or whiskey. I think it's in all of the industry whether it be the beer or the vodka or the gin. Think it's everywhere everybody's kind of coming together and realizing women have a pretty powerful role in this industry and it's just exciting to be a part of it. 17:38 And Bruce What about you because you know you're going to be I guess going head to head with say Freddie no here in a few years right? 17:47 Oh, not head to head he's bigger than me. I'm not mad. 17:51 Oh, hello, Freddie. I love that family. There's very little competition I don't even consider me and Freddie the new regime that is not new regime he's just trying to do is granted did he's just trying to make Booker proud really. And that's kind of what I'm doing just trying to make Jimmy Pro. So I think you'll probably see some more old school stuff from us then you will maybe our peers as far as age is concerned. This new wave of distiller this new wave of industry person is really exciting. For the most part. Now here I can tell you one thing we have as big of a problem as you see in other places. 18:24 But here in Kentucky we've got a ton of 18:28 young and just younger people than dead and Jimmy that are making amazing product when you look at stuff 18:35 and people that are just involved maybe not even at the master quote unquote master distiller level but there's the people in there making it there's a young guy out there, that 18:44 new contract is still right there in Bardstown bourbon company, and they're making crazy good juice, we went out there and checked it out with blaze news, Mr. Hargrove out there making some good stuff, Drew over there will it's doing some crazy cool stuff, Mariana, they're canceling key. He's doing some crazy cool stuff. There's this group of people, especially here in Kentucky, the folks over at angel's envy, are doing some really cool stuff that and that younger generation, I'm really excited to see because all these people are either from here and had family involved, or they're doing it in a way that I think you can be proud of. But I will say that there is some bad that's come from, 19:24 Oh, here we go go with the dirt and not dirt. But I 19:27 do think that there's something about every 25 to 35 year old person with a chemistry degree. distilling. aspirations now, like we talked about before, calls himself a master distiller and finds seven angel investors to build them a distillery in their band choose that they don't want to really talk about and be honest about like, there's a good side and a bad side. 19:48 Not only to the young, younger, influence and kind of influx into our industry, but also there's money to be made now. And for most of Jamie and dad's career, there was no money to be made. So the people doing it more people that loved it. Now, you know, you see a little bit of both. But with people like Freddie and the family over there at angel's envy, and drew and Marianne, and I mean, even dad and his generation, when you look at Fred and dad and somebody a car owner, Danny, we're good hands here in Kentucky. Absolutely. Yeah. 20:21 So I want to kind of touch on something else that you were talking about there, too. We talked about, you know, the chemistry degrees and all that sort of stuff, kind of talking about your background of sort of what's going to lead you into the distilling path, right. I mean, you're going to take an apprenticeship underneath your dad sort of learned from the ranks. 20:40 So I think the my kind of education will be twofold. 20:46 It'll be mostly hands on work, the academic aspect of distilling that the chemistry component. 20:55 I've spent a lot of time studying, researching and learning from the people that we have here on our technical team and our old distillery supervisor and dad. And that's what I've always been most interested in. Before I wanted to work here. I was going to school trying to be an engineer. So you know, I've always been a tinkerer taking things apart, figuring stuff out, it's always been very interesting to me, where most of my production will be now is learning how to actually do it by hand. Even though all this is automated is very important for dad and Jimmy to pass along. how it's done, kind of the way that Jimmy used to do it. That way I know, oh, when this when this shit breaks, when this shit breaks, isn't going right, in a distillery does not run correctly, almost ever. Anybody anytime you go to the store, and like oh, everything's running great. It's usually not 21:46 everything, something's always wrong. And I need to know why. Because that's where a master distiller really comes in to play now. You know, and some people I guess, are just figureheads. But a lot of these guys whether the consumer base another they're not are in their work. But a master is doers and stern pots anymore. He's not hand crushing grain or, you know, he's not sitting on top of a 200 degrees still having to take proofs and temperatures like Jimmy would. It's all automated now. Right? We're master distiller really comes in handy is, how to remedy something that's going wrong. 22:18 Or how to make something maybe even better in that automated process. And that's the stuff you've got to learn. You only learn that by being here, Jim, you can go in and smell the fermentation say, I left that sitting there too long starting to smell spicy. Until I was here for a decade, and trying to actually listen and learn. I had no clue what that meant. But now when you go in, you smell it. And you can tell, oh, we've had secondary fermentation come in. It's kind of smells like vinegar and spices, pepper. And it's stuff like that. You just have to kind of be here and pick up 22:49 there for some reason Jimmy and dad don't. They don't teach you. They just figured you know, you listen, you learn, you know? Yeah, it's got to do time. It's experience. 22:57 Yeah. And you're gonna figure out the hard way. I 23:00 don't know if I'll ever make whiskey is as good as Jimmy did in his prime. I think. 23:05 I know, I'm boss, because he's my grandfather. But when you try that Turkey that he was making when cost was not a factor, he was probably losing money hemorrhaging money, probably by making whiskey the way he did. And that stuff in the 70s and 80s and early 90s. That stuff is incredible, right. And so my goal at the end of my apprenticeship is just to make some things happen, you know, if I can make something that's got a little bit of that old school, wild turkey phone, because we got away from it for a while. There's this weird time in the 2000s, where our stuff is a little bit inconsistent. It doesn't have that same kind of wild turkey. Overall flavor. It's not as complex as flavorful. It doesn't have that deep funk that some of that other stuff has. 23:47 Now we're getting I think back to that, yeah. When you taste somebody limited editions, like the Russell's limited editions are like that decades are 23:56 you man, you take some of these single barrels that that people come and buy some of the best of we've ever made in the history of artist story. And so I'm excited about getting to learn how to do it, but also trying to do that same stuff that Jimmy always did. 24:07 Yeah, I mean, that was actually one thing that I had asked your dad, when we started looking at the growth of the brand, how everything is pretty much that's not running at full bore, right? It's about three quarters capacity, something like that at the at the current time. So there's going to be a day when agent stock is going to be there, right? And you can be able to say, well, we're looking, I'll go fill a few barrels with 107, right? Because you can do a run and I'll just go fill 600 barrels, and then yeah, then maybe you'll be able to look at having those releases where they are reminiscent of those old days. And it could be eight year wild turkey one on one, you know, going into the barrel 107. And it might be able to pick up some of that that old. 24:48 So here's something I'll tell you. And really, I'm trying to tell your listeners 24:53 is that if you all want to see stuff like that, even if we have so here's how it kind of works with us is even if we do have backstage to be able to do that thing, we have to not necessarily get permission. But you know, you gotta convince your overlords 25:05 exactly, 25:06 there needs to be a kind of a program and a plan involved. And they really want to see that it's going to be worth their time, even if it's not sold that you know, needs to generate something. And so one thing that I like to tell bartenders, but it goes the same for people that would be listening to this somebody that's an enthusiast or considers himself a bourbon geek or bourbon nerd or collector. 25:24 If you want to see stuff like old incher proof, if you want to see everything going on to filter this stuff that I see people yelling about on bourbon Reddit or on people's blogs or on comments on Patreon and stuff. 25:36 Not only your online, purchase, use your purchasing power, purchase the stuff like that tell people when you're at tastings or at these events, you know, hey, I would really like to see some wild turkey from one on seven. Because that's what matters it. You never know, you could be talking to the right marketing person at the right time. And all of a sudden, because this has happened with us. I heard from this guy that we would really like this kind of thing. It's like yeah, we been trying to tell you that for 15 years, but the one right consumer the one right time of one right place can get something like that through. So we want to do all this kind of stuff like one on seven injury proof, we want to 26:10 go back to making you know, maybe some even smaller batches, then we're doing that are how proof maybe non to filter barrel proof, maybe something like the Kentucky donut legend series. 26:21 There you go. But 26:22 to be able to do that, you know, we need you guys to 26:24 There you go. So there's a there's a call to action for all the listeners out there 26:29 who will help us a lot when you all fight for the old school style whiskey that we want to make for sure. 26:33 There you go. So one of the things that we didn't ask when we started this, because typically when we have somebody we don't really need to watch Jimmy Nettie, because it's Jimmy and Eddie but with you all. And it's typically what we ask all our guests is kind of like, how did you get into bourbon? Like what was? Do you remember that first? Like time that you either consumed it? Or was it something that you know? I'm sure. Probably you come in here and actually just having to go to get delivered daycare here. Did you have to come to date here at the distillery 27:00 the day here for me, I think it was called like Keith James. It was a guy that worked under dad that I always used to hang out with and I was a kid. And I think he knew I got you a bug again. I think they keep knew if he had the basically the boss's grandkid with him that he could do whatever he wanted. It worked. So we just hang out. No, no daycare. 27:19 But if you want to go ahead first on the whiskey thing. 27:22 I mean, for me, I guess definitely in the past few years my my interest in it, my left words grown a lot and just getting very fortunate to taste a lot of different things. Especially a lot of our old school stuff like Bruce was talking about earlier, the stuff that Jimmy was making the 70 in the 70s in the 80s as some of my favorite stuff. And personally for me like Russell's 98 is one of my if probably my favorite product that we've ever made here before. I just tend to like that sweeter that vanilla Carnival in those Bourbons that we make here. So for me, I'm a big Russell's advocate. And the whole entire line I really enjoy 28:01 when I was 12 I know that's not what they want to hear. So 21 this is 28:06 all about being authentic. But when I was 12 28:10 around then I might have been 13 my brothers nine or 10 28:15 dad took us in gave us some whiskey and who you all probably know as bad and Jimmy is not really who they are at home. They're very stereotypical Southern patriarchs a family's stern don't speak. 28:30 disciplinarians. tough on you. And dad at home does not speak he hadn't spoken me probably four times my whole life except for maybe good game or bad game when I mean a 28:40 lot of it, there's There seems to be a consistent generational thing between the fathers in these families is 28:46 I'm the kind of the gregarious one so I'll just force everybody to talk to me, even if they don't want to 28:52 talk to a brick 28:52 wall. Yeah. But when, whenever I was about that age, dad took me and Jake, besides my younger brother's name, and 29:00 took probably 30 or 45 minutes to explain to us the importance of the product and kind of like his involvement in it. And he could tell he's very proud about a thing that I'd never seen him. He'd never been proud of anything like that before in his life, except maybe my mom like that's the kind of look he had on his face. And that's when I knew me, my brother both, you know, he never got into this. And at that time, I didn't want to do this. But I knew this is special. Because dad doesn't really care about anything besides us. His dogs, you know, maybe hunting and fishing. 29:32 He really cared about that whiskey. And I knew like, Oh, this is cool. Because before then All I knew is Jimmy's. Everybody's boss me because he had a big office in dad is not anybody's boss because he did not know he was just the norm. He smelled like everybody else smell it smelled like sweat, and motor oil. And like aging whiskey is the best smell of the world when I was a kid kind of smells like when you drove up to the stereo, what it's smelled like, but I he was a normal worker. So I didn't even know him probably 15 or 16 that like 30:06 Jimmy was different. He wasn't just like an employee. You know what I mean? Yeah. But even at 12 I knew whatever this was, it matters because it matters today. 30:16 So what was that? That turning point for you? Whether it was a few years ago that you said? Yeah, sure I can I can get into the family business. Because it sounded like you were lying 30:26 thing happened to me that happened to dad that happened to Joanne 30:30 Jamie was forced into his job. But my grandmother but we all took summer jobs. 30:37 Dad did not start off wanting to work here. He was playing football at Western hitchhiked up here. didn't have a car back then granny made him get a job at this story summer job he just never will have same thing happened to me. Basically, same thing happened to join. Whenever I was 21. I got a job here given tours. I had worked a million jobs and stuff farm stuff, working Kroger, the meat department organ and FedEx moving boxes. Dad was like withdrawal would be a lot easier. know everything at the distillery already, you can just give a tour and talk about yourself. It's like cool, and this little place right next to where we're at. So the one room home that they've kind of converted into an event space. 31:14 And I gave tours and thought I'm gonna make my 10 bucks an hour and give these tours and it'd be easy six hour day job. And I'll go back to Lexington and party up with UK kids. And about a month in. 31:27 I started getting questions from people, I started to get groups like probably the people that listen to this podcast. What's amylase enzyme? I've heard that before? Like, you know, why is your yeast proprietary? Why does that matter? Or you would get questions that I would have no clue what it was, which would be like, why do you all run your steals hotter? And why is low proof even a good thing? Because I just knew low proof. I went through proof or distillation proof. That's because that's what maybe says because tastes good. And then once I realized I don't have the answers that started to pick the brains. And again, it was a situation where you had two guys in your family. 32:01 They really don't open up about much. And then as soon as you start talking bourbon, all of a sudden you start to push Yes. 32:09 And that's when I knew like oh, I need to stick around here and at least figure out what's going on. Because this is cool. And this in that time I was still thinking maybe I'd go be an engineer or do something like that. 32:21 And it was probably the end of that summer when I knew I'm probably never gonna leave. 32:27 And now you know I'll never leave the bourbon industry. I love it the people 32:34 and the opportunities afforded my family's changed my fam the opportunity to travel around the world and meet people that don't look like us and sound like ghosts and it girl by ghosts it's changed me for the better a lot. So this industry's done a lot for us. And we're very appreciative. 32:49 So the other thing is, you know, being a little bit younger, you know, you're you're talking about going party back with the Lexington boys and something like that. So do you see yourself actually living here in Lawrenceburg? Or do you see yourself maybe coming from Lexington or Louisville everybody can eat from the city now love where I'm from. I love Lawrenceburg. 33:05 And it's a great place to grow up. It's great place to raise a family but you gotta you gotta have a Yeah, there's a little a little more I've got I've got to make the family before I move somewhere where I 33:16 tell me Tinder isn't like a big thing and Laura's knowledge. 33:18 It's pretty tough going out on dates when every single single woman within probably five years of me I'm either related to dated before I dated their sister, you know, it's a small community. Everybody knows me and everybody knows my best times and my worst time Yeah, and that's rough here. In South probably have to go to over Lexington. I'm not gonna say I'm never going to live here because Lawrenceburg town, it's home. Like I went to school at Anderson County. I went to the same high school that Jimmy went to same buildings and everything. I went to church right down here growing up in this little community called Tyrone that is the most little country church in the world. 33:56 And that it made me who I am. And I love it. Maybe when living in Austin, so it's gonna be awesome. Yeah, six 7000 people or whatever it is. Yeah, 34:06 the live music scene and Lawrenceburg just isn't the same. 34:09 Well, now there's a guy right down there Jared Stratton, who disagrees pretty good. Yeah. 34:15 take your word for it. 34:17 So who knows you could be here long enough and you'll get your own scooter down there. 34:21 That's good. It's pretty cool in about 50 That's what he said he's 34:24 got a license plate on and do some turn signals 34:26 I really want to because you know we know we're back in town I really want to get the the chief of police to come down here like fake arresting from drinking and driving on us. 34:37 That'd be a good one. What about you Joanne do you actually live around here? Do you commute like what's your what's your 34:42 went to school and Lexington I still live there right now. But think I'm going to be making the move to local by the beginning of the year just for work. bigger market. As you know, Lexington it's not super big, definitely a college town. But there's only so much you can do there. So I'm excited to make the move to global get to a little bit better, bigger city. Because I did grow up in Nashville. I grew up in a small town about 20 minutes south of Nashville so much bigger than Lawrenceburg. It 35:08 was like if they gave you an ultimatum gotta move to Lawrenceburg. We would 35:11 do it absolutely i mean granted Joe and made me live here. I get free breakfast every Saturday 35:17 enforcer to be complaining to me. 35:20 Like I'm spending the night at your house. I gotta get I gotta get out of here. 35:28 You've probably heard of finishing beer using whiskey barrels. But Michigan distillery is doing the opposite. They're using beer barrels to finish their whiskey. New Holland spirits claims to be the first distillery to stout a whiskey. The folks at Rock house whiskey club heard that claim and had to visit the banks of Lake Michigan to check 35:45 it out. 35:46 It all began when New Holland brewing launched in 97. Their Dragon's milk beer is America's number one selling bourbon barrel aged out in 2005. They apply their expertise from brewing and began distilling beer barrel finish whiskey began production today thousand 12 and rock house boozy club is featuring it in their next box. The barrels come from Tennessee get filled with Dragon's milk beer twice, the mature bourbon is finished and those very same barrels. Rocco's whiskey club is a whiskey the Month Club on a mission to uncover the best flavors and stories from craft distillers across the US. Along with two bottles of hard to find whiskey rack houses boxes are full of cool merchandise that they ship out every two months to members in over 40 states. Go to rock house whiskey club com to check it out. And try a bottle of beer barrel bourbon and beer barrel rye. Use code pursuit for $25 off your first box. 36:37 So I want to kind of just kind of take it back, talk a little bit more about the whiskey right because both of your ambassadors you both know it inside and out. So kind of because this is this is, you know, every show is going to feature a little bit different kind of angle on the wild turkey story. And since you guys know the product sets really well. Let's just go through them just kind of real quickly to give our listeners kind of a different understanding that they wouldn't necessarily get from me Eddie or Jimmy when we're talking stories, right? So So let's start at the like the at one in one on one and kind of like give us the give us a typical spiel that you would usually do when you're out in Ambassador is the word we're 37:13 all good at when you do one on one. And that one's a little bit more difficult. 37:17 A bit different. Yeah. 37:18 So at one is a was not the original one on one is. So it was kind of a take on that that came out under the promo, I believe, regime when they were a parent company, and they had decided that they wanted to have a competitor for the 80 proof set. And like most 80 proofs, you know, surprise surprise to no one on this, listen to this, or 45 years old. And they had chosen to go down that same route. And so for a very long time, we had an 80 proof wild turkey that was in when people say 45 years old. Hopefully everybody knows that means it's probably all four years old. And every now and then a fat might squeeze in you know. And so when the best whiskey in for a long time in you've I've heard on this podcast, I'm sure you're aware that it's very hard to get Jimmy to say anything bad about anything that's ever happened the distiller he's a very, very proud company, man, very proud, very positive. And he just don't want to hurt anybody's feelings. And if you get him on Sometimes he'll say what he thinks. But he did not like that at PR never did. And now he admits it. And I think by the end of the ad, he used to tell people kind of like wink, wink, why would you drink the ad if you could get the one on one, because not only was it a four year old product, but it's proof down. It's just not what he liked. But then, after he bought us and I thought I think it's one of the smartest things they've done, they realized that we didn't care for the product. And that's probably a big reason why I didn't sail because when your two main phases of the company, they're on the road debt and Jimmy, when people ask him to drink the 80 proof, and they refuse outright, and go to something else that tells you all. And so they decided to let's change it. And that is one of the few things that they gave that almost full rein on it. He said, Well, I don't think that it's a problem that we have a proof down thing, I just think the whiskey is not good. And so we changed the product. And what you see now is at one is no longer any four or five, it's now going to be six, seven and eight year old bland average age right around six and a half years. And what he wanted is he wanted an 80 proof product that going to stand up in a cocktail. That's one of the reasons why I think one on one is so industry friendly is 101 proof. And we're known for having a big kind of in your face flavor. And it stands up if you add sweetener, you add modifier is you're going to still taste the whiskey or the raw. It wasn't the case for 80 proof. And I think it was just a 39:37 it's night and day better. And I've seen all the reviews come out that have compared the old ad to the 8181 just kicks its tail. That's one of the few things that was kind of in that Jimmy era that just I didn't think was a very good product. But I know it wasn't up to him to make it. So what you have now is that blend of 678 right at 81 proof is a large batch. So both it one on one American honey, these products, they're right around 1500 barrels mingled together for that one batch as opposed to like 150 or less on those small batches. And what we're looking for is kind of the classic wild turkey flavor profile, but a little bit lighter, a little bit, I guess brighter and a little bit more crisp, maybe fruity almost is the way I would describe it. I think it's a lot less of that kind of combo vanilla and a lot more like honey fruit, it's kind of a lighter thing. They it is a different blend than the one on one. I think that's something that consumers don't know. It's not the same bland, it's not the same age, they're completely different batches. One on One is older journal talking about that. And we do want at one to have a different kind of flavor profile 40:41 at doing that for a particular market. Because you know, talking about the bourbon aficionado of somebody that's semi educated. Did you really think that they're going to go for the 81 or they should probably not 40:56 bourbon aficionado, the only thing we would make was masters keeps. 41:00 That's not what everybody needs. Everybody likes different stuff. I'm not an expert in wine at all. I can't even really say one that will. 41:09 But 41:12 yeah, when I whenever I drink my bottle of two buck Chuck or whatever it is, I'm as happy as a lark. Yeah, just like I'm sure whoever enjoys like the 81. That's their go to drink their enjoyment. It's, it's for maybe a more of a beginning consumers for somebody that wants something low proof or something a little bit more sensible. 41:31 or four bar because there's a lot of bars that want wild turkey is their base product. But we don't want a one on one raw are not inexpensive, especially for well, or rail products. So if you go to a bar, and they have one on one or one on one, right as their, their bourbon and coke order or whatever, that's a good bar, it's been in a lot of money on their product. Most people don't want that they want something a little bit less expensive at ones for that kind of bar too. But we have seen a pretty big growth on the offspring to which is exciting because it like you were talking about a lot of the consumers that are going to be on this are going to be listening to this are going to want more probably Rare Breed spirit, private barrels, the limited stuff. 42:11 Nailed it. 42:13 We've got those consumers like they're already on our side and we make stuff specifically for them. So it's really fun to see when you walk into a liquor store. And there's somebody that's like, looking through what bourbon should I get? Oh, well, Turkey. Well, now at one's not at all anymore. It's wild turkey bourbon. So that's what they're going for. 42:29 And I think if you try that it does give you a kind of a good representation of what wild turkey can be. Yeah, one on one. And when you go to Rare Breed or like a Russell 2002, it just continues to be I think even more and more, quote unquote, wild turkey. I think at once like a really good entry point, maybe long branches to now. There we go. 42:49 So go ahead is a little bit of one on one. Yeah, 42:51 absolutely. So um, started back in like the late 30s. Early 40s is when we first started making one on one it was eight year one on one. One thing, one story that really stood out to me that Bruce told in the warehouse one day when we were doing a barrel pick was it really stood out because back then four year old bourbon was really what everybody was getting. And I guess when you put a big on a bottle and one on one, people kind of get drawn to it. So that's kind of what built our company. It's cool to see one on one still do so well. It's still our number one best selling product. Like Bruce said it does tend to be a little bit older. So Seven, eight, sometimes maybe a little nine is thrown in there as well. But for those long 43:28 old book 10 year old and this year, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Short on it, I guess because long range or something. There's a little bit older in this year. 43:34 Yeah. But for the longest time, all we were making was one on one and one on one. Right. And one of the coolest stories that I've come to know is that without the bartending industry without 43:46 off Prem on prem, we would just still be one on one and one on one right. We would not have Russell's we wouldn't have Kentucky spirit, we wouldn't have rare breed, because that's not what the market wanted back in the day. So it's really what Bill our company, it's still who we are today. One thing that I really respect about Eddie and Bruce is that they will never step on what Jimmy's done here. Like Eddie talks about a little bit earlier. One on one wall is we want to one Rare Breed will always be rare breed Kentucky spirit will always be Kentucky spirit. Those are kind of Jimmy's babies. But the one on one, like I said is a little bit older than the 81 tends to be a little bit spicier, a little bit bolder kind of that in your face bourbon. A lot of people tend to say it reminds them of their college days. Which is 44:25 funny. It's funny because we all we all talk about one way more 44:29 money than I did in college. I used to drink whenever I was broken couldn't steal anything. Yeah, Kentucky gentlemen a mountain dew. 44:34 I was a Kentucky Tavern guy. So I was Kentucky. But we wouldn't every once while I had a pet a buddy cuz I'm a nerd. Right? I work in tech. And so every time I had to go fix something form or reboot his girlfriend's router, whatever the fuck it was at the time. It and he would always be like, he was like, Hey, we're gonna go get a bottle one on one and drink it tonight. Yeah, yeah, we'd shoot it back then we're kind of like I was like, now I'd probably like savor and sip it. But back then we were shooting it right. I don't know. Understand. 44:59 I still you never know. 45:02 But it's I mean, that's probably one of the biggest the biggest things I get, especially working in the visitor center when people come in, oh, I drank this back when I was in college. Like, that's how I know it is what it is and why it's around but tend to be older, a little bit spicier. 101 proof, definitely stand up in a cocktail. Definitely our oldest product in my opinion, it's we're going to get that spice it kind of takes over your palate a little bit compared to a few other things in our portfolio that tend to be a little bit sweeter. 45:28 What's quite the statement to say it's the oldest one because you got a rare breed as well. So 116 is pretty easy to drink. No, yes, that's that's just that's just back porch. Country Day sipping whiskey right there. 45:38 One thing I'll say about the one one that I think is kind of cool that people probably don't realize when they look at the history. And I think this is like kind of in your face to some of the crowd that maybe listens to this podcast, one on one started off as a contract brand. So when people that aren't super educated about how contract works, yeah, don't Pooh Pooh contract brands, some of a really great artists pretty good. But what it is what how it kind of it all started, artist story was already making that recipe and something similar. A guy that went on a turkey hunt got some of our whiskey from our distillery that he was already purchasing, and fell in love with it and was one of the few people that probably ever existed that was wealthy enough to turn an inside joke into a brand. And it had become kind of an inside joke with him. And these guys on this hunting trip. Oh, this is Tom's wild turkey whiskey. And they fell in love with it. And then he started to promote it locally. And it was a contract brand. He owned it the label owned the name. And we made the whiskey for him here out of our distillery back when we were still Anderson distilling company when it was owned, I think even by the repeat. 46:42 And then by the time we were quote unquote, owned by the Austin Nichols company, Austin Nichols was then kind of merged or owned by completely different company. And so anytime when we were the label was owned by Austin Nichols. It was kind of a contract situation. And we were making good stuff out of here. So it was a good contract situation. And Walter, you just kind of took over we were the JT s brown distillery more so than anything else that was our big product. And really the only thing that we made back then that's still around, I think, although I think we made Dowling whiskey back then, too. And I think it might still be around, but I'm not sure. Jimmy thing seems to think it is. But all of his like facts and figures or stuff from from back when he was drinking 20 years ago. 47:23 I'm not sure he's not he's not hitting it as hard as he used to 47:26 know he's not not unless I make him. 47:28 Yeah. Because now it's YouTube that are taken over hitting it hard 47:32 on the right. But you know, once every four or five months, whenever we're all out somewhere, especially like he has certain places he really likes Chicago is probably his favorite market. Definitely. Because he has a lot of friends there. And an old school people are still around there. But when you get him with some old school buddies, he'll still stay out of 456 in the morning. He the mind is willing. And I think that the The palate is willing. He's just getting up here and age. Yeah. But if you if you hung out with him all day today and drink whiskey, he'd stay here with you till Friday, if you want to do. Absolutely. 48:06 So let's go hit hit a few other ones real quick. So talk about rare breed a little bit. Who wants to take that one? 48:12 Yeah, I mean, I'll talk a little bit about it. So it started back in 91. When we did the first batch, I think Eddie said we've made about 13 batches. Now. 48:20 There's like 12 or 13 different proofs that we've done, 48:23 that we've done. So making a new one every few years, but right now, it's going to be six, eight and 12 years old. So Jimmy really, really loves whiskey that is six to 12 years old. So he basically took those three years that he loves the most put together out of barrel proof. And that's what made Rare Breed so been around since the 90s. The previous batch was at a 112 point eight. So it's a small batch bourbon for us, that's about 150 to 200 barrels coming together. And then right at barrel proof, so chill filter it right a barrel proof not on any water to that product whatsoever. So it's a cast cask strength, or barrel proof bourbon, and right now it's sitting on 116 eight and it tends to be there a lot of my opinion there are a lot of flavors that go on in the rare breed just because it does have so many different years in it. When you get down to kind of the nerdy science part about whiskey and especially agent in a barrel different years produce different flavors so for me six is really really where you get that spice and the rare breed The A is kind of where you get a little bit more of that vanilla Carmel okie flavor and then that 12 is really getting kind of rounded out bringing more a little bit more of that sweetness kind of that that chocolate Enos I guess Eddie would say nuttiness on the back end of the product. Gotcha. 49:38 real cool. And then what we Kentucky spirit Russell's right, those are kind of still fall in the same right single barrel will actually Russell's doesn't technically have to be single barrel does it? Or is it? There's four Russell's products. So two single barrels and two small batches. configs spirits probably the next one, that we would go with every like doing the ambassador thing because we usually do like all the turkey stuff and then the Russell stuff. So rare breed and spirit kind of have a similar story where those aren't original ideas from me. And I think he just saw his friends do something and thought it was cool and did his version. So Rare Breed came about just two years after Booker's You know, that's not a coincidence. And but for the longest time, maybe mini nor, as far as I know, talking to Freddie Fred and, and remembering what I do from when I was a kid Booker never wanted to do a single barrel neither to Jimmy. They thought that it would be a disgrace to the brands because you would lose consistency and the right you can never be perfectly consistent barrel the barrel. And that's why most of the people listen to this podcast and myself included think the single barrel stuffs probably the coolest stuff that comes out all these distilleries because you can taste 50:47 every day, it's something different. You 50:48 could taste the barrel there Fred Minnick picked out or you could taste a barrel that the like I was just up in New York with the beast masters guys or whatever, or you taste one that an ABC store picks up, they're all going to be so wildly different, some super weird and funky some, just like retail some supply. And he hated that. And still doesn't completely get behind. Because the consistency bothers him so bad. And so it took him forever. So Booker's 89 Rare Breed 91 will bite and come out in 84. But took him 10 years to finally admit, he's playing stuffs pretty cool. Maybe we should do our version. And so he kind of wanted to do the same thing over did Elmer wanted to basically make the best version of that ancient age juice he could. And Jimmy wanted to go about making the best version of one on one he could and I still tell people that's the only way you're getting kind of the Oh gee, the original one on one just can tell you spirit in that retails all we can be at least eight years old, one on one in the bottles not anymore unless you're getting it from Japan. So if you want that old school, at least eight year old one on one proof, kind of flavor profile experience the way to go. It's probably 51:58 the least talked about least and over. 52:02 Most forgotten about product that we have on our line now that the Russell's single barrels have come out and a lot of people have gone to those with a private barrel program. And with rare breed been so good lately. 52:14 I really think people should should give spirit a chance if they haven't had in a while. It's a delicious product. And when you find that right barrel might be the best thing we make. Yeah, that stuff is so good. And I know some people get caught up in the will Russell's is 110. And it's one on one. Sometimes water helps. Sometimes you find that right? That right barrel that you prove it down, you know, 1015 proof points and that water opens it up. And it's just super tasty. 52:38 We're getting small bugs over here. 52:39 But I agree with Bruce definitely because I think Kentucky spirit is my favorite product and just kind of like our standard portfolio, but definitely doesn't get the love that it deserves for being eight year one on one kind of like that. Oh, gee stuff. 52:51 Where's me they change that bottle? 52:53 Yeah. 52:55 It could be the fact it could be the only reason people bought now is because of that goal bought onto it scares me because not very much of it is bought. And so I don't want anything to happen to that product. 53:03 Right? Well, you should probably just save like a few pallets of it in the back. So you can just go have your own little special releases of your own spirit. 53:10 Don't think that's not already done. Yeah. Here's a few, quote unquote, empty barrels out here, you know, there you go. 53:18 That's smart. So we're gonna, we're gonna get towards the end of this. So if there's any other products that you want to quickly touch on real quick, that kind of educate the consumers. Yeah, I 53:25 would love to touch on one on one raw, a little bit more. It's my favorite product that we make you're in, you're out because you're the right guy. But it's not because it's my favorite to drink that probably the single barrel raw or maybe a revival right now really like, but I think one on one rise very important to us, because it's very important to the bartending industry. 53:49 It's what they've traditionally kind of held as their own. And the thing that they've always kind of supported. Wild Turkey with is putting one on one rise, the bass cocktail and spirits are in Wales. And it only exists today in its current form because of our dinner. And I think this is a good story to tell your listeners, whether they work in the industry, or they're enthusiasts, or they run their own blogs or podcasts or whatever, that you all matter people that really the people that enjoy our product, and people that are passionate about our product they matter to us. So one on one raw went away for a while, we made very little raw for very long time, one day, kinda in the first season, spring, one day in the second season, fall winter, and 54:32 didn't have enough. Part of that is because we didn't forecast enough part of that is forgiven happen. So we lost six months worth of our on to accidental thing that our buddy Connie did. And we didn't have enough. So in the late 2000s, I think might have been around 2010, 2011, 2012, 54:51 right in there. 54:53 One on one route went away. And compared to Tom came out with 81. And nothing faith we can get by by just lowering the proof a little bit. And we couldn't get by a lot of people got very angry, especially people that were had to use that for decades is there? 55:11 Well, yeah, they're raw. If you ask for a Ronnie, that's what they're going to give you. And so 55:18 a guy by the name of Eric Asher, who's a good buddy of mine, now that he's almost like one of the family owns bars in San Diego, New York. At that time, I think maybe working in San Francisco started an online petition, first time I ever seen this happen to petition a supplier and also kind of speak out and say, if you are going to get one on one on one route, we're not going to carry any more competitive products. In he was the guy that kind of mattered, you know, he made himself mad, or he was loud and proud about what he did and took bartending seriously. And, and because of his passion, and because he got a lot of other people to kind of side with him and sign up on this kind of like online petition or group or whatever it was completely Listen, and they came out with a product after just two or three years of her being off the shelf. And it's we don't where it's not even an allocation anymore, we have plenty of it, and have had plenty of it for a year to the one on one or at least 56:11 in that's why it's kind of my favorite product, because it's a product that is very near and dear to me because I enjoy it so much. Because one on one rise, the only reason why we make any rat to begin with, because it's the thing that kind of makes money on the wrong side. But also because it's a good example of what a person that can be passionate can take what they can do what they can get done. You know, you had a question from from Dave Jennings earlier, Robert. It's another good example like this dude just made a hobby, his hobby into almost like a full time job. Even though he has another job in like, we talked about him in the company when we're doing meetings and stuff like did you see that thing he said? Or did you see that timeline that he did like bars? Like Is this right? Can we use this? Like, should we pay him 57:00 he's doing a better job than a lot of people we paid to do that kind of stuff. And if you're even if it's not wild turkey if you're listening into this, you're passionate about whiskey about bourbon. If you're a Buffalo Trace fan or a Jim Beam Stan, are you only like 400 year old family state will it? That's cool. Be passionate about that, almost to the noxious level and kind of good things happen. Because we like that we like when somebody shows up and gets that know that look I was talking about earlier the den Jimmy have on their face on their passion about something like when dad was talking about that whiskey. That's the kind of look that makes me excited when somebody comes in. And dad's like, I got something that we haven't even put out yet for Detroit. And you see that guys, I was like, you know, you think that at home the moon at that point. That's the best part of this job to see people get excited about what we do. 57:51 Absolutely. Well, that's good. That's I'm gonna go ahead and end on that note, because there's gonna be one that we're never gonna forget because we're all going to walk away with mosquito bites after this. 58:01 So I want to kind of quickly wrap it up. If there's anybody that people want to get in contact with you social media, go ahead and let them know so they can find you. Twitter, Instagram, 58:10 I'm Joanne Street. It's pretty basic on all social media aspects. 58:14 You said of yourself called yourself. 58:19 That was karma right there. 58:22 My Instagram is Russell's rock. I don't use social media very much. And I think my Twitter is Bruce Russell one on one. 58:31 I'm on Reddit too. You'll see me like pop around on bourbon Reddit

Hey, what's going on everybody? Hey, this is Coulton woods and you're listening to learning from the experts and today I want to talk to you about experience and how it is actually your most valuable asset. So here's the deal. I know how frustrating it is as an entrepreneur to waste countless hours sifting through wanna-be experts who never actually helped me in the end. Then to learn years later that there was an expert who really could help me 100 times faster than learning it on my own. I have created this podcast to save you time and money while taking you on a journey with me as I learn from and interview real experts who can actually help you grow your business. My name is Coulton Woods and you're listening to learning from the experts. Sweet stuff. What I want to talk to you about today is something called experience. It's interesting to me that people think that you can just go through and learn things and then not actually learn them without having any experience tied to it. Robert Herjavec, you know one of the sharks on shark tank? One of the sharks on shark tank said that experience is your most valuable asset. Now why do you think that is? I actually want to tell you a story. So when I was in college, if you've listened to my podcasts before this, you'll know that when I was in college, I started my own repair store. I remember going to a class and we were learning about breaking even costs, fixed costs, variable costs, Roi, basic different things. And I remember in this basic entrepreneurial class, the teachers teaching us some things and literally would ask us a question like if your costs are this much and you have to pay for it every month, no matter what, what is that a fixed cost or variable costs. Then professor asks if you sell your products and you make this much profit on your product, how much do you have to sell to cover your fixed costs? And I thought, it's easy. I can tell you that right away because I've done it in my own business and I know what my costs are, and I know what I have to sell in order to cover those costs and how much I make by selling whatever product or service that I was doing. And so I remember I'm sitting in this class and I'm like, the teacher's asking us a question, okay, well if you sell this much, how much do you have to sell in order for you to cover your fixed costs? Just this divided by that. And I'm like, it's this much. And he's like, yeah, it's correct. And then I remember so many people in there, so many of these kids in college, they couldn't wrap their head around it for some reason. They're like, I don't really understand why or how this all actually works. And I mean going through that semester, I was the teachers favorite student, me and this one other guy. I remember this other guy had some business experience as well and it was a super easy class for us and we just flew through that. And it wasn't hard for us because we had some experience already in the field and we had already done different things and if I wouldn't have had the experience that I had doing business, it would have been just as hard for me but once I had the experience, it's so easy. How come you don't understand that? How come you don't get it? Like, it makes so much sense. That's easy. I've been through that. We forget as people that if you haven't gone through the experience,it's not as easy to understand. I wasn't even planning on talking about this, this is not totally business related, but it helps 100 percent with experience. So me and my wife went through over six years of infertility battle. We literally tried to have children for over six years. It wasn't until like seven years of being married that we actually were able to have a kid. He's four and a half months now, we just had our first baby boy, and I'm super excited to him, he's the cutest little thing I've ever seen and he's already smiling, laughing and he's a huge blessing our lives. But what's interesting is if we didn't have that experience of what it's like to work so hard or try so much and go through it. A lot of people don't even know the terms. We went through things called IUIs that we had to do, and doctor's appointments and shots and different medicine like Femara. And Clomid, like there's all these different terms and stuff. We ended up having to do ivf and if you don't know what ivf is in vitro, where they actually literally have to fertilize the egg outside of the body and then implant back into the body and it's not cheap. So it took us over six years to essentially get to that point. Whereas, like every doctor is telling us we don't know why. She had multiple surgeries on different things that may have been causing the infertility and those ended up not working and so many other issues and different things. And finally it came to the point where we knew we had to do IVF. So we did IVF and it was successful in the first round thank goodness. And I'm sorry for anybody that ever has to go through that. It is not fun. It is not a good road or battle to be going on and is very emotional. It's such a huge blessing to have that little one around now. But with that being said, for other people that are going through infertility, it's really interesting because if you haven't experienced it, you don't understand it. You just don't understand it. Don't try to understand it. You just don't. I don't know how many times my wife has had people come up to her and say, oh, I had somebody go through that. You'll be fine. They were fine, you'll be fine. That's I'm sorry, but that is not the best thing to say when you're in the middle of it. Oh, you just got shot. Hey, I know somebody that got shot and they turned out fine. You'll be okay. Don't worry about it. You got shot. Everybody gets shot. Don't worry about it. It's not something that you just kind of brush off. But having been through that experience and having had the experiences that we've had through that, we can essentially cope. Where we understand it now. Our experience has brought understanding to us that you can't get any other way essentially. I wasn't even planning on talking about our infertility battle. That's interesting. But it's the same with businesses, is same with everything that you go through in life. If you don't experience something, you're not going to learn it. I don't know how many times people buy a course or they buy a program and they're like, yeah, I bought it. It's going to make me like wealthy and rich and I'm going to be able to do this or do that, or I'm going to be the best social media person ever. The facebook ads person ever. They'll go through the material and they're like, oh, it didn't really work for me. Well, they didn't actually implement or try it or experience how it works. If you don't do that, you won't actually learn it. You have to be able to teach something in order to know it. The teacher always learns more than the student because they have to understand it at a level that's different than just being taught that material. So if you can turn around and teach the same materials that you're going through in your course to somebody else and have it be clear enough and understandable enough that they can understand it and use it and have results based on what you've taught them. Then you're at a whole nother level of understanding. You've gone through and begun to experience it. Now if you've actually implemented it and experienced it and seen it and done it and had feedback from what you're doing, then you learn so many more things when you experience it. I can think of even bad experiences when I've done business deals with people and they have completely not been ethical in their dealings essentially with me and I learned a ton from that. I experienced that a couple times and I'm like, never again will I experience this because that was horrible. Not that I won't ever experience it, but now I know what to look out for to not go through that experience again. You learn stuff very quickly when you experience it. I just wanted to go over how experience is so much more valuable than just learning something or going through a course and listening to it. You need to experience it. You have to go through it. Hopefully my very short version of our IVF story helps you understand a little bit more about experiences, not just in your business world, but also in your personal life and then those that you interact with around you. Thank you very much for being on here guys. I look forward to talking to you again. Are you looking to jumpstart your business by learning or getting help from the real experts? Go to learning from the experts.com to find preapproved experts that I've handpicked for you. Please don't forget to let me know how I'm doing by subscribing, rating, and leaving feedback.