Podcasts about Gotcha

Gotcha, right? Or, "Click before it's too late!" Or even, "Hey, kid. You're pretty good at this. Want a real gun?" Career public diplomacy officer Karl Stoltz tells the truth about "FIMI" – deep fakes, false personas, trolls, bots – lies that aim to provoke fear and anger and destabilize target populations.

Is your business feeling cluttered, overwhelmed, and stuck? This episode is your mid-year reset. Janet Taylor, your Life Organizer, sits down with Stephanie Warlick — founder and CEO of Five Foot View Consulting, international bestselling author, fractional COO, EOS implementer, and HR expert with over 30 years of experience helping small and medium businesses get organized, stay accountable, and scale with confidence.  Stephanie calls them the five gotchas — the business mistakes that quietly derail small business owners before they even realize it. Sound familiar? Get your pen ready. In this conversation you will learn:  Gotcha 1: Lack of clear expectations for your team — the number one communication problem that keeps businesses from growing.  Gotcha 2: Unclear roles and responsibilities — the cement foundation your business cannot grow without.  Gotcha 3: Founders who cannot let go — why you are the bottleneck in your own business and how to release your grip at least 80 percent of the way.  Gotcha 4: Not documenting what is working — if you do not document successful outcomes, your team will make the same mistakes over and over.  Gotcha 5: Lack of clear shared goals — without a shared vision, your team is just soldiers walking in circles.  Stephanie also shares why right now — amid economic uncertainty, tariffs, and a shifting market — is exactly the time to secure your internal foundation so your business can withstand whatever comes next. How Stephanie stays organized with ADHD: color-coded, time-blocked calendars that serve as half her brain — including a system for tracking delegated tasks so nothing falls through the cracks.  Taylor's Tip Time: Five steps to declutter your office — schedule a time, tackle the spaces furthest from you first, purge the filing cabinets and drawers, work on your desk, and then give yourself a well-earned high five.  TossItTuesday: As you head into a new quarter, toss the dried-out markers and pens that are not working. Clear the tools that are not serving you.  Resource Roundup: Janet recommends magazine file boxes to organize project documents, certifications, and active paperwork without piling it on your desk. Book suggestion: Janet's ebook Prepared and Organized — seven areas to tackle before the busy fall and winter season arrives.  Quote of the week: "Small business success is not about doing it all. It is about doing the right things at the right time with the right mindset." — Stephanie Warlick  Clear the Clutter. Claim Your Power. It starts with securing your foundation.  Connect with Stephanie Warlick: Website: StephanieWarlick.com (consulting, coaching, books, speaking) Consulting company: 5FTView.com Book: Dark and Silent Office — a digital accessible guide for inclusive communications in the workplace  Connect with Janet M. Taylor – Professional Organizer   Book a Session: https://janetmtaylor.trafft.com/ Free 15-Min Consultation: https://linkly.link/2FBkK Website: https://www.janetmtaylor.com Podcast: https://www.gotcluttergetorganized.com   Janet's eBooks • Prepared & Organized: https://linkly.link/2Eikc • Get Your Affairs In Order: https://linkly.link/2FBnw • 7 Affirmations to Organize Your Life: https://linkly.link/2Eikt  

Peace activist Kathy Kelly is a founding member of Voices in the Wilderness

A devastating injury nearly ended her dreams of becoming a pilot. SUMMARY Lt. Col. (Ret.) Jannell MacAulay '98, Ph.D., says the accident was merely the first chapter in a career defined by perseverance, service and leadership. Listen to this inspiring story on Long Blue Leadership.   SHARE THIS EPISODE FACEBOOK  |  LINKEDIN DR. MACAULAY'S TOP 10 LEADERSHIP TAKEAWAYS 1. Choose your hard: You don't escape difficulty in life or leadership, you intentionally pick the hard path that aligns with who you want to become. 2. Let vision — not other people's verdicts — define you by holding a clear internal picture of your future that outvotes external “no's.” 3. Train your mind to eliminate the noise — unhelpful thoughts, doubts and narratives — to stay focused on what truly serves your goals. 4. Aim to harmonize your roles (leader, parent, partner, professional) across seasons of life rather than chasing a perfect work-life balance. 5. Be the calm in the storm by regulating your own stress response so your presence stabilizes your team instead of amplifying chaos. 6. Stop glorifying exhaustion and competitive stress and instead model healthy, high performance built on sleep, focus and quality over quantity. 7. Use simple daily mental skills — like mindfulness reps, the waterfall technique and a mindful minute at transitions — to protect clarity and compassion. 8. Replace “How are you doing?” with “What's going well for you today?” to surface real insight, build hope and better detect those sliding toward hopelessness. 9. Practice present, personalized recognition, because small, intentional gestures of appreciation can forge lifelong trust and loyalty. 10. When you hit a crucible moment and feel unsure you're ready, choose to commit and let the challenge grow you rather than hesitate.   CHAPTERS 00:00:00 – Introduction, Jannell's Academy injury, broken femur, and redefining “no” as possibility 00:05:54 – Her father's influence, early visions of command and flight, and limitless expectations 00:09:26 – “Choose your hard,” setting vision, eliminating noise, and turning barriers into options 00:12:22 – Air Force career breadth, strategy path, and introduction to the Syria chemical weapons mission 00:16:31 – Saying yes to Syria as a mother, family conversations, and the weight of the mission 00:19:00 – Syria as a crucible moment, inner critic vs external “no,” and committing through discomfort 00:22:17 – Identity beyond the uniform, family strain, rare eye disease, and pivot to mental performance work 00:27:06 – What stress really is, burnout, competitive stress culture, and leaders as calm vs storm 00:36:35 – Mindful leadership in action: no-email Fridays, recognition calls, and the “waterfall” technique 00:52:16 – “Breathless,” stories of Syrian mothers, legacy, and final advice to young leaders   ABOUT DR. MACAULAY BIO Lt. Col. (Ret.) Jannell MacAulay, Ph.D. '98, is a combat veteran who served 20 years in the U.S. Air Force, as a pilot, commander, special operations consultant, international diplomat and professionalism instructor. With her innovative leadership style, she was the first leader to introduce mindfulness as a proactive performance strategy within the United States military. Throughout her career she gained experience leading and building teams, designing and implementing complex organizational change, and creating innovative solutions to optimize the human weapon system when operating in rugged and high-stress environments. With over 3,000 flying hours in the C-21, C-130 and KC-10, and extensive education in performance and wellness, she specializes in high-performance under stress with a holistic approach. Dr. MacAulay currently serves as a leadership and human performance consultant for the Department of War, government sector and corporate America. She is the co-founder of Warrior's Edge, a high-performance mindset training program she developed with Pete Carroll of the Seattle Seahawks and high-performance sports psychologist, Dr. Michael Gervais. Dr. MacAulay is a graduate of the U.S. Air Force Academy, has a master's degree in kinesiology from Pennsylvania State University, and a Ph.D. with work in the field of strategic health and human performance. She is a certified wellness educator, yoga instructor and holds a certificate in plant-based nutrition. Dr. MacAulay is a TEDx speaker, military spouse and mother of two.     CONNECT WITH JANNELL LINKEDIN  |  WEBSITE   CONNECT WITH THE LONG BLUE LINE PODCAST NETWORK TEAM Ted Robertson | Producer and Editor:  Ted.Robertson@USAFA.org Send your feedback or nominate a guest: socialmedia@usafa.org   Ryan Hall | Director:  Ryan.Hall@USAFA.org  Bryan Grossman | Copy Editor:  Bryan.Grossman@USAFA.org Wyatt Hornsby | Executive Producer:  Wyatt.Hornsby@USAFA.org     ALL PAST LBL EPISODES  |  ALL LBLPN PRODUCTIONS AVAILABLE AT USAFA.ORG/LONGBLUELEADERSHIP AND ON ALL MAJOR PODCAST PLATFORMS     FULL TRANSCRIPT Guest, Lt. Col. (Ret.) Jannell MacAulay, Ph.D. '98  |  Host, Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz '99    Lt. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 0:00 Leadership begins the moment someone tells you what you can't do, and you decide they don't get to write the rest of your story. Lt. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 0:00 I'm Naviere Walkewicz, Class of '99. Long Blue Leadership starts now. Well, Dr. Janelle McCauley, Class of '98 welcome to Long Blue Leadership. This is an amazing time for us. Excited to have you.   Lt. Col. Jannell MacAulay 0:19 Thank you so much for having me. I know this has been a long time coming, so I'm excited to be here with you to start a conversation.   Lt. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 0:24 Absolutely, you know, I do want to highlight some of the things you've done. It's probably true that the list is shorter for me to say what you haven't done, but pilot, combat veteran, you're a leadership strategist, you're a mother, a wife, author — we'll talk about that later. You know, also really getting into the space of a human performance specialist, a commander, all of these things that you've done and, gosh, 20 years in the Air Force, and now having been out, so excited to talk today. Lt. Col. Jannell MacAulay 0:51 Thank you so much for that amazing introduction. I don't know if I could live up to even what you just said, in some ways. But yeah, I just would love to share with your listeners how amazing the Air Force Academy can be for the potential and the possibilities for someone's future. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 1:07 Absolutely, so let's actually jump into a time early in your cadet days, so we'll tie it right to the Air Force Academy. There was a moment in time where you literally broke your femur. I'm curious, did it break your dreams too, of being a cadet at the time? Col. Jannell MacAulay 1:21 It almost did. And there's a story to that, so I'll go into that a little bit. So, during basic training, I developed a stress fracture. You know, running in combat boots, especially the old black version that we used to run in. Lt. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 1:35 Yes, I remember.   Col. Jannell MacAulay 1:36 Not a good thing for your body. And so I had developed this pain in my right quad to the point where I could not even stand on my right leg to put my left pant leg on, during, you know, as you're rushing to — banging on the doors, we'll be dressed, like, “Open the doors, you will be dressed,” yeah, and I would be, you know, Welcome to the Jungleplaying —   Lt. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 1:55 I remember that.   Col. Jannell MacAulay 1:56 I'm putting up my pants and I'm in pain, and my roommate's like, “What is happening?” Like, “You need to go to the doctor,” and I refused to, at first, of course, right? Push through it, right? And then when I finally went, they were like, “Here's the Ace bandage and some vitamin M, you know, Motrin. And, of course, I didn't know anything different, so I kept going. And then it was three days after basic training had finished, and I was at cheerleading practice, and I was doing a back flip, and my femur, like, literally snapped in half. It sounded like a tree branch. It was — I just collapsed to the floor, and this was before we had cell phones, right? So, if you can imagine, I'm 17 years old, so I hadn't turned 18 yet, and so they couldn't give me any pain medication, you know. The emergency — the ambulances rushing into the emergency room at the Academy hospital, which was not equipped to deal with what just happened to me. So, they sent me up to the Army hospital in Denver at the time, was Fitzsimmons. They couldn't understand why a 17-year-old's femur would just snap, and no one wanted to really address the fact that maybe it was a stress fracture at the time, so they actually told me I had cancer. So, they did — a bone type, a bone type of cancer, and so they did a biopsy on the bone. I lived in traction for 10 days while all my classmates were continuing on with their freshman year. So I was about — they eventually determined that this was not cancer, this was actually stress fracture, and so the two choices they gave me was a cast from my hip to my toe for about six months, or they were going to put a rod and four screws. So a rod the length of my femur, two screws of screws on my knee, two screws in my hip. And then the doctor said, “Either way, you're never flying airplanes,”   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 3:36 And that was your dream?   Col. Jannell MacAulay 3:38 That was my dream. Yes, my uncle had flown Marine 1 for President Reagan, so I grew up watching him fly helicopters in the Marine Corps, fly the President, and just he was the coolest person ever, and I wanted to be just like him. He took me to the air shows, so yes, it was a crushing moment. You know, it was something where I thought I could either let what people were telling me, the doctor saying, “You're never gonna bend your leg like this, you're never gonna be a runner, you're never gonna be a pilot,” and I could let that define me, or I could choose to define myself and what I was going to be capable of, and what the possibilities would be for me in the future. And so it was very hard for 17-, 18-year-olds to process all of this, but my dad used to give, tell me a quote, and it was, “Vision is the art of seeing the invisible,” and he would always tell me, “If you could see it for yourself, you can make it happen,” and so when it came time for being pilot qualified, I actually chose to get all of the metal removed out of my leg, just so that there was no reason for them to not allow me to go to pilot training. And so I went through that, which was — Col. Naviere Walkewicz 4:49 Another surgery, wow. Col. Jannell MacAulay 4:50 Yes. So through all of that, I have learned that was the first experience where I learned a lot about myself and what I was, what I could focus on, how I could set a vision for myself in the future, and how I could start to eliminate the noise — that's what I call it now. I didn't have language for it at the time, but it's eliminate the noise that does not serve us in pursuit of our passions, in pursuit of our dreams. And that was what I had started to do, which it's kind of full circle that that is now my career, to help other people do it. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 5:26 I want to peel that back a little bit. There's so many things. I mean, your dad's quote: “Vision is when you can see the invisible. I think I paraphrased that a bit. One more time.   Col. Jannell MacAulay 5:33 It's actually a Jonathan Swift quote, and that “vision is the art of seeing the invisible.” Col. Naviere Walkewicz 5:39 OK, so were you always that way growing up because you had, you know, your dad in your life sharing that kind of thought with you, or has it been a series of experiences that you've had that have kind of really made you that way? Col. Jannell MacAulay 5:54 So, my dad has always been a very positive role model in the sense of eliminating barriers and dreaming big. So, when I was 7 years old, and I was a ballerina, he used to tell anyone that — and I distinctly remember this as a little girl — he would tell anyone that would listen that I was going to grow up to be a submarine warfare commander or a combat pilot. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 6:16 Oh, wow, not a swan, no ballerina, you know — Col. Jannell MacAulay 6:18 And I would literally be in my tutu, and he would tell strangers at the grocery store, right, “This is my daughter, Jannell, she's gonna grow up and do these amazing things.” And in the '80s, women couldn't do it, right? We weren't there yet, right? We were not allowed to — and so I didn't know that. I didn't grow up thinking that there were barriers on what I could become, and I think that's a, we have this role as parents to help our children see what's possible, because you know they can either be told where the limits are or they could be told where the possibilities exist, and I think my dad did a lot of that for me, and so that I think is a lot of my story is, like, journeying through challenge and trauma to figure out that I didn't have to listen to that voice. I could create a new one, and my dad taught me how to do that, and then I've kind of developed, what I think, are skills and training, because it's hard. It is very hard to do, and so I like that's been what my Ph.D. work and my research has been focused on, is how can I help other people who don't have maybe that those resources or their parents in their life that have taught them those things. How can I give them those tools?   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 7:27 So you were a cadet when you made the decision that you still wanted to be a pilot, and you didn't want there to be anything that said you couldn't, so you made the decision to have the metal removed from your body. As we think about decisions that we have to make in life, that could be dream-opening decisions or dream-closing decisions. How did you come to that decision? And you know what would you share to someone who's at a similar crossroads in their life? Like, how do you navigate? That's a tough decision you made.   Col. Jannell MacAulay 7:54 It was a huge decision. I think part of it is understanding what are you passionate about? Who do you want to become? And not just about what you want to do, what type of person you are. That's a lot of what I think mental skills work is as well, is like, who's the person underneath, because once you figure that out, then the doing follows, right? Like, you could do anything, and I was the type of person underneath it all that did not like to be told no, right? Or I loved it when someone would say, “You can't do that,” right? It's like the challenge is what inspires me and motivates me, and so when they were saying you will not be a pilot, it was like, OK, well, then how do I get to yes? And part of that path was I had to have the metal removed. Now, there were some arguments, like, “Maybe you'll be fine.” I don't want to take the risk, right? I was like, “Nope, I don't want to give anyone an excuse to take something away from me.” That was kind of the mindset at the time. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 9:00 So, I think that really dives into this idea of, you can, when you said yourself: The no in front of you is kind of like, “How do I turn that into a yes?” You know, clear out the noise. How did that play into your life as an Air Force officer? Because I'm sure that you came across a lot of what we're seemingly no's. What did that look like? Col. Jannell MacAulay 9:22 So, here's, but, and this goes back to the Academy as well. I tell young people today, my greatest gift is to tell them, “Choose your hard.”   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 9:34 Choose your hard.   Col. Jannell MacAulay 9:35 Choose your hard, right. Anytime I'm asked to speak to a college, you know, high school audience, like, I do mental skills, but a lot of times the theme is “choose your hard,” because I think people are — young people are always in pursuit of the easy button, and then when they encounter hard, like, “Oh, there's got to be a better way.” The lesson is, it's all hard, right? It's all hard. So, determine what you want to do, or who you want to be more, and how you're going to get there, set the vision, and then navigate through the hard. And I would argue you need to equip yourself with the mental skills to do that, and in pursuit of that, there is going to be no right, there are going to be challenges, and part of it is accepting the challenges instead of being afraid of them, because it is through those challenges that we're actually going to accomplish great things, and we're going to get to reach our dreams and our goals. And I think that that is something I struggled with, but I found a way and a path through it. So, I think that there's always going to be no in your life, and I like to create opportunities, so then I have, I get the choice instead of just having to default to someone else telling me no, like even when I left the Academy, I applied for pilot training for grad school, for physical therapy school. Because I wanted to have opportunities, so then I got to choose which path I wanted in the future, which hard I was going to choose for myself in that moment.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 11:03 I just — I'm thinking about you, went into the Air Force as a pilot, and you talk about choosing your hard, and you also are a mother. Let's talk about that piece. I think just navigating the and in being a mother and a leader and an Air Force officer and a combat veteran, a pilot, etc. I mean, that's a lot.   Col. Jannell MacAulay 11:23 It is a lot, but I think underneath it all, the person that I am is one who not balances my life but harmonizes it and all the roles that I get to play. I think that's the greatest thing about the Air Force. You list all those things that I've done. I was watching the cadets yesterday, I was one of them, with just a bright future and so much possibility. And under one organization, I got to fly multiple airplanes, I got to go back to school numerous times, study a lot of interesting topics, from my degree in exercise physiology, from Penn State to my Ph.D. in strategy. So I got to study all these different things. I got to work in chemical weapons, which I know we're going to talk about later. I got to fly around the world, I got to lead people all under one team, right, one organization, and that is the greatest thing I think the Air Force can give people if they take those opportunities that are in front of them. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 12:23 Yes. Well, let's, let's jump into a time — you actually brought up Syria. And so let's go there, because I think I would like to hear more about the story, and how it kind of unfolded around the chemical weapons there. Col. Jannell MacAulay 12:36 So, I got sent to — it's post… So I went to the School of Advanced Air and Space Studies — SAASS time, and my husband and I were actually the first married couple to go through SAASS together. And stayed married at the end. There was one other married concept that it were exactly that. There was one other married couple with us at the time, which is really unique, but I took — you know, through SAASS, you get a strategy focus, and you have to go do a strategy job somewhere for your staff to work. OK, and so my husband really wanted to go work at the Pentagon, so he was on the joint staff working on the Israel-Palestine desk for the chairman, and I was like, “What else can I do in DC to keep my family together, that would be interesting?” And there was this job at this little organization called the Defense Threat Reduction Agency, and DTRA, as they're known, is the brain trust for everything weapons of mass destruction, so chemical, biological, nuclear weapons, planning, research, execution of mission, that is all run out of DTRA, and so I was like, “That sounds interesting, I've never done anything in any of this space, but it'll be an easy job,” is what I thought, because I was about to have my second baby, and every time I call them, no one ever answered, like, past 3 o'clock so I'm like, “Great job.” Exactly. Like, I got my staff tour done, and I get to do something new. But I was a fish out of water, you know, like former pilots, like going into this situation, the WMDs. They gave me that job also, because no one wanted it, it was almost asking people who are experienced in the world of chemical weapons to do an impossible task, right, to handle an impossible problem. And so, at the time, nobody really wanted to put their name to it, because there was a no-win. We don't have diplomatic relations with Syria, like this — a bad civil war was happening there with an evil dictator, right? Like, how were we going to solve that problem without any type of relations? And then, you know their proxy of Russia, right? So then it's like we don't even have — we didn't have the greatest relations with them. So when August of 2013 occurred, and Assad used chemical weapons against a civilian population, 1,400 people died almost instantaneously from sarin gas. Sarin gas is one of the most awful chemicals, immediately, right? It's like paralysis. It makes your eyes water, like you become — it's a horrific way to die. And when that happened, my life changed, because all of a sudden it was like, “Oh my gosh, this is real. And, “Who's been studying this problem?” And at the time, it was you and your team. And so we kind of got thrust — I got — I went to London almost immediately to start briefing our international partners on what we had been building and studying, and luckily we had been, for the better part of six months, working on this problem. And then shortly after that, I went to the Hague, because Syria did turn over their chemical weapons to the international community, and there's a whole story behind that. Obviously, we got the Russians to help with that. And then I got sent to the Hague to work at the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons — the OPCW is who has all the inspectors and the teams who helped destroy and inspect the status of these chemical weapons — and so I got sent there to work with them and negotiate directly with the Syrians and the Russians to build the plan. And I remember my boss was like, “You have to go, and I don't know when you're coming back, we need someone over there to be running point on this mission,” and yeah, he sent me, and he said I didn't have to go writing my little kids, Andrew just turned 1, but he said, you know, “We need you, and this is what I picked you for, this mission, and this is what it's for.” So, yeah. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 16:31 Wow, what did you — what went through your mind when you were asked to go, and you had the opportunity to make that decision? What do you mind besides the fact that you have young children? Col. Jannell MacAulay 16:44 Well, of course, like, I think, like most mothers, you never are like, “I still want to leave my kids,” right? I want to go, but I knew it was the right thing to do, because I had the ability to make an impact and a difference, because I knew the mission inside and out. I was the right person at the right time, and I was ready. I distinctly remember I went home to talk to my children. Well, Ally, she was 6 at the time, and I remember talking to her, and I said, 'Mommy has to go away to handle this mission. And what I'm going to do while I'm away is there's some really bad stuff that some really bad people have, and I'm going to work to take that stuff away from them, so that they cannot hurt anyone anymore, and she looks up, and she's, you know, crying. We're both crying, and she said, “Mommy, like a superhero?” And, I just, like, kind of nodded, and she's like, “You can go, Mommy,” like, “You can go.” And it was in that moment that I realized, like, that's why we do these jobs. It was to protect her, to model to her that, like, I can be a mom, I can be a strong mom, and I can also go do things in the service of my country and the service of my nation and it was important for me to go, and then — so that was a driving force, like knowing that my family was going to be OK and supportive, but the other driving force was thinking about the mothers in Syria who lost their children, and thinking, here I was holding mine and they will never get to hold their children anymore. I mean, hundreds of children died and were put in mass graves after this, and mothers didn't get to say goodbye, mothers didn't get to hold their children, and they suffered immensely in those moments. And so I kept thinking about the Syrian mothers, and how if I could do anything to help prevent something like that from happening again, then I had to go, right, I had to do that for them. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 18:44 Would you say that that mission, or that part, that time in your career, was something that was so impactful in your life it changed you, or it maybe shifted your focus on things you were going to do later, or was it just at that time, this is where I need to be doing and making an impact? Col. Jannell MacAulay 19:01 There's a whole story behind it, where we were dismissed, and we came up with the innovative idea of how to solve this problem by destroying these chemical weapons on a boat, ship — sorry, Navy — on a ship in the middle of the Mediterranean. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 19:12 Was that because you were told it couldn't be done that way? Col. Jannell MacAulay 19:14 Yeah, exactly. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 19:15 Oh, interesting. Col. Jannell MacAulay 19:17 We had to actually start a whisper campaign within the Pentagon, and the State Department and the National Security Council to get our idea heard. And eventually, it was. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 19:28 So I'd like to take a little bit of time in that space of when you recognize that need to keep pushing for, right, the choosing your hard. How do you navigate that? What would you recommend to somebody who has been no, no, no, no, no, no, no. How do you work your way through that? Col. Jannell MacAulay 19:45 Well, I would first ask, where is the no coming from? Because if the no is coming from your inner critic, right, I know how to get rid of that and eliminate that, and that is actually what most people — like, that is what prevents most people from doing great things. I like to say that we all have these crucible moments in our life, a moment where we're asked to do something that we really don't think we could do, right? Like, we're kind of like, “Oh my God, deep down you're like, “Oh, I don't think I'm gonna do this. Can I do this?” And in that moment, we have the opportunity to either hesitate or commit. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 20:24 Was Syria your yes? Col. Jannell MacAulay 20:26 It was very much a crucible moment. You could either hesitate and say, “Oh no, I can't do this, it's too big for me,” like, “I can't take this responsibility,” or “I can't make this decision,” or “I can't believe in my idea,” because the voice in your head says so. But sometimes it could even be real people telling you and dismissing you and saying, like, “You can't do this.” So, “Where does the no come from?” is always the first question. And if it's an internal no, you can train your mind to eliminate that noise. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 20:54 Yes. OK, I like that, because then you — it opened up your eyes to the possibilities of who you might connect with that can then help navigate through some of that challenge. Col. Jannell MacAulay 21:03 And here's the reason why we, as humans, love this: What happens when you step into discomfort, right? You're at that moment, that crucible moment, and then you decide to commit, and you step into discomfort, and you navigate through it, and you get to the other side. How does that feel? Col. Naviere Walkewicz 21:18 Amazing. Col. Jannell MacAulay 21:18 Right? You throw your arms up in the air: “I'm a badass! Look at what I just did.” And even you're like, I didn't think I could do that, and I did it. That is what we live for as humans. I don't think people realize that, right? Like, we want those moments, but we don't want the discomfort that comes in getting them. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 21:35 We want to be at the other end, right?   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 21:37 We just want to be at the other end of that, because we love that moment where you throw — so you're not gonna throw your hands up if you're like, “Oh yeah, that was so easy.” Col. Naviere Walkewicz 21:43 That's a good point. Col. Jannell MacAulay 21:44 Right. You wouldn't be like, “I feel so good about it.” I'll come—   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 21:45 We wouldn't share with people if everybody could do it. Col. Jannell MacAulay 21:47 Right? Exactly, so we do love those moments as humans, and I think that is part of what — I teach people how to not be afraid of discomfort, to get more opportunity and more times, more reps of those throw your hands up in the air and be a badass. Right? Like, and that's really what I think it's about, is being ready for that moment, and the more often you're ready for that moment, the more often you step into discomfort, the more throw your hands up in the moments you get.. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 22:18 So, if humans are chasing that, and that feeling of, like, you know, commit, raise your hand, get through it, and you know, kind of bask in like that, that moment, because you loved it so much. There's probably a desire to seek more of those opportunities. How did you navigate your career after that? I know you served 20 years. Was there a point where you're like, “It's time for me to move into this space,” or did you just happen to really decide to commit to this new world of mental performance and toughness? Col. Jannell MacAulay 22:49 So, I, like, most military members, I went through a phase where I got really caught up in my identity as an Air Force officer, Air Force pilot, and it can be scary to leave that identity with the one you've always known, the one that you've been comfortable with, and even though I'm successful in — and even though I do enjoy challenge and discomfort, it was scary, right? It is scary, and I think that, well, first, part of my story was, I don't know that I was necessarily completely ready to leave, but the Air Force was making it really difficult for my family. My husband and I, he was a maintenance officer, pilot, you would think maintenance and pilot, very like cohesive, compatible. We would be able to be stationed together. We spent six years apart, and two of the last three that I was in the Air Force, we did not live together. OK, and that was hard. Our kids are getting older, and I distinctly remember I was in New Jersey, commanding a squadron. My husband was in New Mexico, commanding a group. Note to the Air Force: New Mexico and New Jersey are only close in the alphabet, right? These are not close locations, not at all. And full disclosure, I had the kids with me and an au pair, because I couldn't have done it otherwise. And I remember my husband flew home, you know? He thought he would get in at like 2 a.m. on Friday night and have sleep for 10 a.m. on Sunday morning, right? Get back. I remember we woke up our son, he was four at the time, and he looks up and he goes, “Mom, Dad, you're together,” and I was like, “No, this is not OK.” Like I don't want my children to just wake up or just be grateful when their parents are in the same room, like, that's not what I want for their childhood experience. And so I actually gave up my command six months early, and that was one of the hardest things I've ever done, because I loved being a commander, but I was at a point in my life where I realized my squadron will get another commander who cares so much about them, just like I do, but my kids only have like one mom, yeah, and they had one dad, and they needed us together. And so that was a hard decision, but it did set me like on a trajectory to think about retirement, to think about, you know, what I could do on the outside, and actually it was like divine intervention, I actually lost my pilot qualification. I have a rare eye disease, and so I've gone very blind to my central vision, like 80% blind to my right eye. So I was going to get my pilot qualification taken from me, and so I think that was God's way of saying, “It's time, this is not your path anymore. You have a different gift,” right? Flying was a great gift, leading in the Air Force was a great gift. “There's a different path for you.” And so that's when I retired, and then kind of realized there were so many people that wanted to hear this information. There were so many people that were struggling with this idea of “How do I perform? How do I manage stress? How do I get those badass, like, throw my hands up in air moments?” And I started by working with high-performing teams, the military, first responders, hospital workers, you know. Then COVID hit, and I realized everybody, everybody needs it, stress, like psychological disorders, like they're on the rise, anxiety, and if I knew how to help people, why would I keep that to myself, right? Like, it's just became something I'd be passionate about. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 26:29 Goodness, that's probably something that people don't know just by looking at you, that you actually have an eye disease that you battle through, and I'm curious on when you started into this work, like you said, COVID hit, and you realize everybody needed this. It almost is a bit of, maybe reinvention is not the right word, but you literally change your trajectory completely, even though you had all that schooling. So, my question is, how did you actually, how do you determine who you work with, because the land is so vast of who needs it, you know? I mean, how do you actually do that? Col. Jannell MacAulay 27:06 There's only one of me. It has been hard. My tribe is always the military, and even though I do spend a lot of time in the private sector working with, you know, companies from Amazon, NBC Universal, like, hotel chains, different industries — which I love — anytime a military commander reaches out and says, “We need help,” whether it's burnout, whether it's just not optimizing performance, whether it's stress-management, because if you look at the majority of DOCS today, people are burnout and stressed out, and—   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 27:47 Oh, the organizational climate service.   Col. Jannell MacAulay 27:49 Yes, yes, the climate service. And so most of the time, how do you, how do you manage that as a commander? Because, and here's the thing about stress and burnout: Stress is a perceived emotion. People don't think about it, but the actual what stress is, is your perception as to whether you have the mental resources to meet the demands of a given moment. So, your brain, when you're faced with a stressor, something comes at you, and it's a stimulant, right? And your environment, whether it was like a contentious conversation, traffic, it was like a big decision, like flying a plane in combat, right, whatever that is coming at you, your brain does a like split-second calculation as to whether you have the mental resources to meet the demands of that moment, and if your brain says, “Oh hell no,” it becomes overwhelming, it becomes stress, it be it sends you into this like spiral of like anxiety, which is like — what anxiety actually is, it's your mind's creation of what you think is going to happen in the future. It actually hasn't happened to you. Anxiety is a complete creation of the mind, right? It is. Our minds are fantastic at mental time travel. They will take us in catastrophizing about the future. I like to tell people, the majority of the catastrophes you will experience in your lifetime, they will only happen inside your head, right? They will feel very real, because our minds are fantastic at this time travel. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 29:11 Then it turns physical. Col. Jannell MacAulay 29:12 Yes, then it becomes like part of our physiology. So that's what this is, what leads to chronic stress. It leads to preventive illness that sets in, because we live our lives in this chronic state of stress, and stress again is a perception. So you could also be stimulated by that stressor, and instead of getting overwhelmed, you could say, “Bring it on.” Like, this is a challenge and I've got the resources to meet this moment. It's a choice. Again, I get people, “It's not as simple as that.” It is as simple as that, but it's hard in practice, and most of that is because we have spent 20, 30, 40 years training and wiring our brains for one direction, which is to strat for stress and survival, right. And so when I do ask people to flip it, you can't just flip it over, but these are not soft skills. This is why what I teach is very hard, because you're rewiring your brain. The good news is it's called neuroplasticity. We can rewire our brains, but it does take work and deliberate commitment, and that's why, you know, I see this all the time with spouses. They're like, “I don't see what is the big deal. My wife is freaking out,” or vice versa, like in a cockpit. Like, I'm calm, and I'm like, “Why is my co-pilot freaking out?” It's that perception, and how our brain deals stressors. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 30:27 So, we have a lot of listeners that are leading people. How do you navigate their ability to help others through that, or is it really more dependent on the individual themselves? Like, do you need the individual to do with the work with you, or can you work with the leader and help them navigate that with their folks? Col. Jannell MacAulay 30:46 You can absolutely work with the leader, and as a leader, you can role model the behaviors. So, there's some real science behind this. For example, how often is a leader creating a storm instead of being the calm in the storm, right?   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 31:02 More often than people realize.   Col. Jannell MacAulay 31:03 Right, it really is, and it's almost one of those things where later can be the calm in the storm, right? But when they're not, they embody the stress that then pervades through the organization, right? Like they create that culture, and so if you have a boss that comes in every day stressed out, you have a boss that's not sleeping. I absolutely, this is what drives you crazy about leaders in the Air Force, who will say things like, “I only sleep three, four hours a night,” and like, you are bragging your suboptimal, right, from someone who studies performance and psychology, and like, you are literally telling people, “I am not ready to make decisions on your behalf or be your leader today.” Col. Naviere Walkewicz 31:42 I like how you said that: “You are bragging your suboptimal.” That is right, there, those words, that's fantastic. Col. Jannell MacAuley 31:48 Right, but we — it's part of our culture, right, to even kind of be like proud of it. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 31:51 How much did I actually, you know, keep myself up to get more done? Col. Jannell MacAulay 31:55 Yes, yes. And so here's another example. I'll tell a quick story. I was a commander, sat down Monday morning meeting with my peers, and one guy says, “Oh, I worked all day Sunday on performance reports, like, I have a sick kid at home, so I only got like two hours of sleep, like barely had time to grab coffee, you know, but I'm here to be a badass.” And then the next guy goes, “Well, let me tell you something. I worked Saturday and Sunday on all my performance reports, and, oh, by the way, two sick kids at home, so I didn't sleep last night.” Wow, you know, “I didn't have time to grab coffee, but like, I'm here to be a badass.” And then they turned to me, like, expecting me to one up them on my stress. It's a culture of competitive stress that we live in. And instead, I said, “Well, my husband doesn't live with me. I had to get all my work done last week, so I can spend the weekend with my kids,” but mind you, I had the OSS, the flying squadron, so I had triple the size squadron, “but I got all my work done last week because I was more focused in my work. Then I hung out with my kids, everyone slept great, like no one's sick, we're all good. I've got my yummy green smoothie to start the day,” and instead of anyone at that table saying, “Oh my gosh, how do you do that?” The sentiment was, “Well, she's obviously not working hard now.” That's our culture, like our culture is one of, if you're not stressed, if you're not showing how busy you are, you're not valued, and actually that is not the path to performance. The path to performance is quality over quantity, it's sleeping, it's demonstrating to stay calm, it's making good decisions, it's, you know, so we as leaders can either set that tone that we're in this competitive stress, which then makes our captains not want to be us, like that's a huge problem, right? But if you're the type of leader who stays calm, if you're the type of leader that they see, “Oh, they go home every night on time, they do spend — they do leave early sometimes to go to their kids' soccer game.” That could, should be OK, but it never — I never didn't perform my job right, I was still working hard and doing the things I needed to do every day, I just was more efficient. Here's the stat: We mind-wander half our waking moments. Do you know what that means? Like, we've all read a page in the book, back to the bottom. Yep, don't know what I read. Drove in your car someplace, don't know how I got there. Yep,   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 34:06 Yep, autopilot   Col. Jannell MacAulay 34:06 That's when you have an off-task thought, your brain, your attention system goes off task during an ongoing task or activity. I'm telling my brain to pay attention to driving or reading, it goes elsewhere. It's unintentional, and when our brain does that. t mind-wanders towards stressors, worries, catastrophes, Col. Naviere Walkewicz 39:41 To-do lists.   Col. Jannell MacAulay 34:22 To-do lists, exactly. All of those horrible things that then make you more angry and distraught and unhappy, right? So, what if we could get control of that, stop spending so much time in that distraction and be more focused? Well, you do that by not having your phone all the time, you do that by looking at people and actually listening, because this is where leadership comes in. If we're having a conversation and I'm telling you something important, you're my, you're my commander, and I look at you and I'm like, “She's looking at me but not listening.” You can feel that as you can see. And so leaders can be mindful and focused and pay attention. It doesn't take that much, but it takes awareness. That's really what we're training when we train our minds. We are training our awareness. I'm not saying that I am perfect at being focused, I am not perfect at staying calm. The difference is, is when I start to get out of control, I recognize it quickly, and I redirect. When I notice myself not paying attention to our conversation, I redirect very quickly. That's the skill, and that's what we're not teaching enough leaders, I don't think. We're getting there, because I think leaders can set the talent, leaders can set the example, and when I was a commander, I collected data, and we found that, you know, 60, over 60% of the leaders I was interacting with on a daily basis changing their life based on the things I was teaching them, based on the way I was modeling behaviors, and then a greater squadron, it was like 35% and that's — I didn't even teach them anything, I just demonstrated an example. So imagine once you start teaching people how much more those stats will grow and how people's lives will change. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 36:04 Right. well, one of my favorite stories, I think, that you know, and I'm thinking about our leaders that are listening in here as they, as they think about how they can be better leaders. One of the stories you shared previously was actually recognizing someone by calling someone important in their life to share their good news, and it took like two minutes. I think what a wonderful lesson, like being a great leader and championing someone does not have to take a long time, but the impact lasts — could be forever. Do you mind sharing that story? Because I just think that's such a wonderful one. Col. Jannell MacAulay 36:35 I love that story. So, I had an airman who got below-the-zone senior airman, and I used to do a thing where, you know, whether it was a coin or whether it was an award or whether it was just a job all done, and we wanted to celebrate someone in the squadron, you know, you could send someone an email. I hate email, which I did — also as a commander, No- Email Friday. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 36:56 Really?!   Col. Jannell MacAulay 36:56 Did not check my emails on Fridays because I wanted one day where I wasn't chained to my desk, like I was like, in fact, you know how my wing commander found out I was doing No-email Friday? Col. Naviere Walkewicz 37:06 Because they emailed and you didn't email back? Col. Jannell MacAulay 37:08 He got my out-of-office response. Welcome to No-email Friday. “I'm not checking my email today. If you really need to get a hold of me, call me. There's my phone number.”   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 37:15 I love that.   Col. Jannell MacAulay 37:16 So I did that to ensure that I could spend more time with, like, how do you lead people if you don't know them?   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 37:23 Right, you can't.   Col. Jannell MacAulay 37:24 And if you're sitting behind your desk or you're checking emails, like, you can't know people. So I would spend Friday down and about, and we used to do this thing where I would call someone special first for someone, if maybe they had a big event or whatever we were celebrating. So one day, this gentleman got below the zone, and I asked him to pull out his phone, because I used to call people, and people don't answer strange numbers anymore. So that stopped working. I was like, “You pick — pull out your phone, let's call someone special that you pick, and because everyone's gonna answer their kids, right? And I actually talked to, like, spouses, parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, like brothers, sisters of people, yeah, over the course of my commands, and I asked him to pull out his phone, called his dad. I got to brag on him a little bit, saying, like, “Hey, this is what your son is doing,” and most of the time kids don't even tell their parents what they're doing in the Air Force, so it was an opportunity for that. At the end of the conversation, I remember it just like it was yesterday. The dad said, “I'm so proud of you, I love you, son.” And I looked up, and my airman just had tears streaming down his face, and I was getting choked up, and my airman said, my dad has never said that to me before. So we're busy as leaders, like we are, go, go, go, we are in a competitive stress environment, whether we want to be or not, and I'm just asking leaders to pause, right, and it doesn't have to take a lot of time, right, just pause. Those types of interactions you have with an airman, the next time you need them to work late, the next time you need them to take the hill, the next time you need them to go deploy, or whatever it is, you've built a level of trust that only happens when you're paying attention, and that's what the future fight is about. The future fight is about connecting as human beings and focusing when we're doing those hard and challenging things, and the way we do both of those is by training our attention system. You know, we have to pay attention to each other, and we have to pay attention to our job, so that we can be high performing when it's hard.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 39:25 This has been excellent. I didn't — wow. Got me… Tears. Eyes are sweating here in the studio. No, this is wonderful. I'm curious, with all the work that you do in helping others, what is something you're doing every day to stay sharp yourself in this space to be better as a leader, what's something you do?   Col. Jannell MacAulay 39:46 I am really big on continuously challenging myself, like I always want to have a goal or something hard in my future, like I think that that, especially as we get older, I think it's really important. And so, on a personal front, I just signed up to run 50 miles.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 40:04 Oh my goodness.   Col. Jannell MacAulay 40:04 I got five friends to do it with me, so I'm like excited. Yeah, it's not all in one day, it's like you run a 5k, 10k, half-marathon, marathon over the course of four days. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 40:14 And so the longest race at the end. Wow. Col. Jannell MacAulay 40:16 At the end. Yes, that's why it's a big challenge. And so that's my next one. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 40:22 When is that?   Col. Jannell MacAulay 40:23 That is in January. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 40:24 Oh my goodness, so yeah.   Col. Jannell MacAulay 40:25 Just about. And again, for someone who was told you will never be a runner, I think that's also why I want to do it, you know, just to prove to myself that I can, so that's kind of a personal challenge, but on the leadership front, you know, I challenge myself every day. Writing a book was scary, right? You know, when I go and work with each team, whether it's someone in the, you know, like a company or whether it's a military unit, I try to take my time to like customize exactly what they need. It's not just going to be like cookie cutter for everyone, and so that's like my continuous challenge is, can I go into an environment and lead and instruct and educate and train in a way that's meaningful to that group, and that's, you know, what I would, I do for my job, but most importantly, I love this sentiment that you can be everything to someone or you can be someone to everyone. Sometimes in my job I get on a stage, I talk to thousands of people, and I'm someone to a lot of people, right? I can give them a little piece of what I teach, but I also have two young people in my life, my children, that my role to be everything to them is also very important, and so I try to harmonize that the best I can, because it's easy. They get caught up in, like, I'm just gonna go out there and keep sharing this message and forget that there's people closest to me. You know, leadership is about influence, right? Your 3-foot circle, which one of my classmates at the academy, Ronnie Buller, taught me, right? Your 3-foot circle is who you interact with, whether it's your family, your team, your neighbors, your community, and so you have the ability to continuously lead, and that's I want to continuously lead by example and teach people that we need to train their minds. It's not a whoo whoo thing, it's a hard thing that requires deliberate and consistent practice, and it will pay dividends if you give it the focus and time it deserves. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 42:28 I appreciate that you use the word that you like to harmonize things in your life versus balance. I think that's a very distinct difference. It's really impressive. If you could go back in time and talk to Janelle, young Janelle, or maybe it's even just talking to your daughter once you're young girl. What advice would you give her in the space of leadership? Col. Jannell MacAulay 42:48 Well, I would say to choose your hard, and I wish somebody would have imparted that a little bit more on me. I had that sentiment, and I had a lot of grit, and I had a lot of determination, and that's why I did accomplish a lot when I was younger, but it was more difficult than it needed to be. I'm not here to say, like, it makes it easy, it can be easier when correspondingly, like, you're, you're, you have great, you have determination, you're repetitively challenging yourself, that builds mental strength. But if I had known that I could also train my mind in a deliberate way, in parallel, just to make it a little bit easier, and to also find the joy in the journey. There's a picture of me when I got back from a KC-10 deployment, and I'm holding my daughter. She was 15 months, so it was like the first time I had deployed when she was young, and that was a hard deployment. And I remember, like, I look at that picture, and I can see in my face and in my eyes, that I was always already worried about the next thing. Like, instead of being joyful that I was holding my daughter, I was like, in this great moment—   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 44:04 That's what I was expecting you to actually explain, that's crazy. Col. Jannell MacAulay 44:07 I wasn't there, like, my mind was already like, “OK, gotta go again,” like, “When's the next thing?” like, “When is was my next three-week trip that I have to leave her, when is the next thing that I'm gonna miss in her life?” And, you know, we spend a lot of time living our lives, stressful moments, a stressful moment to stressful moment, and I wish that I could have learned earlier to embrace the moments in between, to see them, right? I mind-wandered through many of them, I was just worried, I was catastrophizing. I mean, how many of us spend time in the military? As soon as you get to your first, your next assignment, you're already worried about what your next one is, right? You're like, OK, what do I need to do? Like, like, yes. And you're for me as a joint-spouse couple, there was no protections for us back then. Like, I love that they're finally gone, and I better know, yes, right? I'm so grateful for that, because we did not have those protections. It was like, here's where he's going, here's where you're going, and unless you had a commander or a leader that cared enough to make a phone call, you're going separate ways. And so I wish that somebody would have told me then to stop worrying so much about the next thing and just live more in the moment, I would have saved myself a lot of extra stress, a lot of extra angst, and I would have had more joy. And so that's really what I want for this generation, and that's why I work so hard, and I'm so passionate about this, is because if I could do it again, that's what I would want to remember.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 45:31 So, with so many listening and watching, this is your opportunity to be, you know, something for many. What is the thing that they might do? A small thing they could do, just in their lives, to be a little bit better in their mental space and their mental capacity or performance.   Col. Jannell MacAulay 45:48 Gosh, I have, like, an 8-hour course.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 45:51 I know. That's why I was like, “Here's a nugget everybody, pay attention.”   Col. Jannell MacAulay 45:56 OK, I'm going to give you — can I give you three? Which ones to pick? The first one is to start practicing mindfulness, to start doing mental pushups. You cannot layer in productive thinking, you cannot pivot your mind unless you eliminate the noise. Like, that's the first thing you have to do. You have to be able to see the thoughts inside your head and make a conscious choice not to follow them. Because a lot of them are not providing value to you, right? And the skill set that does that is mental pushups, is mindfulness, and it's this idea of the definition of mindfulness is being in the present moment without any emotional reactivity or judgment. Like, just be here now without judgment, that's what it means. And it's a deliberate practice of continuously being here now without judgment, so that when you are in a moment with lots of judgment, you can filter right, and especially that's where greatness comes from. It's not because of a great moment, it's because of what you do in the moments you're given. Second thing is, for leaders, stop asking people, “How are you doing?” I want them to rephrase that question and ask, “What's going well for you today?” And the reason we do that is for those two reasons: The first one is when you ask someone how they're doing, you're gonna get — most people are just gonna give you like, “Busy,” right? “Good,” “Fine,” “Liiving the dream,” whatever, right? But did I, as a leader, get any information from you when you say any of those in response? No. And then what we do as leaders? We get, “How are you doing?” “How are you doing?” “How are you doing?” And then we—   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 47:36 Check the box, check the box, check the box.   Col. Jannell MacAulay 47:37 Yes. And if you happen to have someone who's like, "Oh my gosh, let me tell you,” you're almost like, “Oh my God, good for you.” I didn't mean for you guys to tell me, because that's our cluster again, right? So I want leaders to start asking people what's going well for you, and that does two things. Now I'm going to get information from you based on your answer, and that information is also going to start training your mind and your psychological framework toward optimism and hope, because do you know the biggest problem for leaders today? I think is missing the hopeless people. We think that there's this binary of optimism and pessimism, and so the optimistic people, we can find them easy, and the pessimistic people, we can find them easy too, right? They're usually, I'm usually focused on the pessimism, because they're noisy and they're loud and they're annoying and they're bothering us and they're bothering the whole unit, right? And sometimes we're like, “Oh my gosh, Bob is so negative and angry,” like, “We should worry about Bob.” But the thing is, is that actually Bob's not your worry, because people who are pessimistic understand they're on a sliding scale. A pessimist thinks that there's a genuine belief that things could get worse, but if you believe things can get worse, you know they can also get better, right? Which is what optimism is. I genuinely believe things will get better. So, a pessimist — it's not binary. I want people at leaders to open up the aperture. There's optimism, pessimism, and then there's hopelessness and hope. That's the second thing. And then the last thing is leaders suffer from what I call compassion fatigue. OK, it's a very real thing. How many of us spend all day at work — it's kind of a combination of decision fatigue and compassion fat. You spend all day at work making decisions for other people, you make, you spend all day at work taking other people's problems, and if you're an empathetic person, like you take it on, right? You're like, “Oh my god, feel so bad, like airmen that are struggling with all these things.” Then you go home and someone at home says, “What's for dinner,” and you flip out about what's for dinner, right? And it's like, oh my gosh, where did that come from? Like, I didn't mean to snap, or someone in your — it's very important to you, and your whole life comes to you and needs you, needs your attention, and you're like, I have no more attention to give you, I have no more compassion to offer, because I am done, like I am burnt, so it's a very real thing, and it's not an excuse, I might have given people a label for what's happening, like it's this thing—   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 49:57 I have compassion fatigue. Col. Jannell MacAulay 49:59 Which is very true, and it's a very real thing, and I'm not giving you an excuse, I'm telling you, you need to fix it, and here's how you need to every time, like the whole time you're at work during the day, you need to shed all the mental distress that happens. You need to shed the empathy, right? Your empathetic, the empathy that you use when you're in an interaction with someone builds like extra stress into your. It's actually in your like body, yes? Right? Like, exactly. you take on those physical, and it becomes a physical manifestation. You need to shed that. So, what I have is called a waterfall technique.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 50:36 Waterfall?   Col. Jannell MacAulay 50:38 So when you're, yeah, yep, so when you're engaging with people, remember we don't want to be distracted and not paying attention. So, put your phone away once you invite someone in your office. I don't have it. It distracts you by 20% if you have it on your body or in your view, right? Just have it put away. So now you're more attentive. Then I'm going to listen to you when you tell me whatever's going on in your life, and I'm going to envision we're at the top of the waterfall. Visualization is very powerful for our minds, so we're going to visualize that waterfall, and I'm talking to you, we're having a conversation, I'm fully present. You might have some stuff going on in your life, like I might have to take a note, I might be OK, follow up, I might give you some mentorship, but when we're done, your problems go down the waterfall, right? Like, we want to feel, “Oh, I'm  their commander.” No, it's still not your problem, right? The problem goes down the waterfall, so then the next person can come in. Now you're at the top of the waterfall again. I'm fully present with my next person that's coming in. I'm paying attention, I'm not thinking about the other conversation. Then when we're done, your problems get to go down the waterfall. It will protect your energy, it will protect your compassion, and so that when you go home, it'll just offer, you know. And then the other technique is before you walk in the door, do a mindful, mindful minute. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 51:48 Mindful minute right there. Col. Jannell MacAulay 51:49 Right. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 51:49 Well, I'm glad you shared three, because I think you know, I think that's what it's about when you're on your leadership journey, and I think leadership is a lifelong journey, and I think anything we can do better, not only to help others but to help ourselves as well, is really important. So, thank you for sharing that. Well, I want, before we close, I want to go into this moment, because you said yourself is a little bit vulnerable, you've written a book. Let's talk about Breathless, and this journey you've now undertaken. Col. Jannell MacAulay 52:17 So, Breathless is the story of mothers, and it's my story. And one of the women that worked on my Syria team with me, she was an Army officer, and we were both mothers of very young children at the time, and we also have two mothers in Syria that are sharing their stories with us, and they lost their children in a chemical attack. And so it's a story of mothers persevering through unimaginable odds, us working breathlessly to solve this problem, and basically having kind of this weight of the world on us to come up with a solution that would work and solve the problem, and then these mothers living in this horrible genocide, right, in this horrible time of a civil war, and under a ruthless dictator, and so they, the only reason why we're able to share their stories is because Assad, right, the liberation happened. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 53:16 I was like, I was going to say they're actually featured in your book. Gotcha. Col. Jannell MacAulay 53:20 Yes, and we originally started writing this book without their stories, and then once Assad fell, like we reached out and we got two mothers to share their story, and one of the mothers, her children were just slightly older than my children, and she lost both of them. The other mother lost her daughter, and her daughter was in prison during the Arab Spring. Her son traded out with her daughter because she was afraid of the conditions and what was going to happen to her daughter in prison. So the brother traded out with his sister, and the mother didn't find out until — her name is Amsaeed — she did not find out that her son Saeed had died, executed with 25 other prisoners before Assad left the country, so she didn't find that out till after liberation, so she lost a son, she lost a daughter, this other mother had two children taken from her, and so the story is about both of our struggles. Sarin literally takes her breath away, and we were working breathlessly, you know, to help them, and just the story of what it means to be a mother, like what a mother's love, what a mother's heart will do. And I just talked to Amsaeed last week, we coordinated a Zoom together, and I got to hear her story firsthand. She got to meet me and understand my story, and it was very evident to me that she said something that was very pertinent. She , “The world has a short memory, and people have probably already forgotten about Syria,” right? Like, oh yeah, something with chemical weapons, bad dictator, like it's another part of the world. And so part of writing this book also is to keep her story alive, to not let the awful things that happened to these women, I mean, to the whole community of Syrians, right, civilians, but especially the mothers who had to not even get to bury their children, and to help their stories surviv

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Marco Rubio walked into back-to-back oversight hearings and turned the Democrats' viral-stunt circus into a clinic. Ted Lieu, Sarah Jacobs, Jacky Rosen, and Cory Booker all came armed with staff-written TikTok scripts — about Trump "sleeping," the 2020 election, Rubio's shoes, and Iran "winning" — and Rubio dismantled every single one with the facts. It's the secretary of state reminding a room full of clout-chasers what a Foreign Affairs Committee is actually for. SHOP OUR MERCH: https://store.townhallmedia.com/ BUY A LARRY MUG: https://store.townhallmedia.com/products/larry-mug Watch LARRY with Larry O'Connor LIVE — Monday-Thursday at 12PM Eastern on YouTube, Facebook, & Rumble! Find LARRY with Larry O'Connor wherever you get your podcasts! SPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/7i8F7K4fqIDmqZSIHJNhMh?si=814ce2f8478944c0&nd=1&dlsi=e799ca22e81b456f APPLE: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/larry/id1730596733 Become a Townhall VIP Member today and use promo code LARRY for 50% off: https://townhall.com/subscribe?tpcc=poddescription https://townhall.com/ https://rumble.com/c/c-5769468 https://www.facebook.com/townhallcom/ https://www.instagram.com/townhallmedia/ https://twitter.com/townhallcomBecome a Townhall VIP member with promo code "LARRY": https://townhall.com/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode #220 of the PricePlow Podcast brings Ben Kane and guest host Joey Savage to Washington, DC for the 2026 NPA (Natural Products Association) Fly-In Day. Their guest on the US Capitol steps at sunset: Uday Gosalia, founder of UGo Beyond and a proud advisor to Future Nutra. This year’s trip had a sharper edge than most. For the first time in several years, the industry came to DC specifically in opposition to active legislation, not just to make a general case. Two bills are in play: Senator Dick Durbin’s Dietary Supplement Listing Act of 2026 (S.3677), which would require every supplement SKU registered with the FDA before market entry, and the Dietary Supplement Regulatory Uniformity Act (H.R. 7366), introduced by Rep. Nick Langworthy, which needs a Senate companion to stop states from layering their own supplement restrictions on top of federal law. The conversation covers those two bills, the drug preclusion clause risk, what actually happens when you explain DSHEA to a senator’s staffer, and why consistent DC presence matters more than any single meeting. Our NPA Fly-In Day preparation guide and Episode #100 with NPA CEO Dan Fabricant offer essential background on PricePlow’s history at these events. Subscribe to the PricePlow Podcast and sign up for FDA news alerts before diving in. https://blog.priceplow.com/podcast/uday-gosalia-220 Video: Uday Gosalia and Future Nutra Oppose MPL at NPA 2026 Fly-In Day https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7WBa-IPH5I Detailed Show Notes: Uday Gosalia (UGo Beyond) at the NPA 2026 Fly-In Day (0:00) – Introductions (1:45) – The 2026 NPA Fly-In: Industry on the Offensive (2:15) – Opposing S.3677: The Mandatory Product Listing Problem (5:00) – H.R. 7366: Protecting Supplement Access for Minors (7:15) – HSA/FSA Eligibility and the Enforcement Gap (8:00) – Rep. Jim McGovern: An Unexpected Ally (11:00) – Teaching the Hill: Explaining How Supplements Are Regulated (12:45) – Do Your Legislators Take Supplements? (14:30) – The Ashwagandha “Gotcha” Moment (15:45) – DC Is More Accessible Than You Think Where to Follow and Learn More Connect with Uday Gosalia and UGo Beyond LinkedIn: Uday Gosalia (UGo Beyond) Sign Up for FDA News on PricePlow Resources Mentioned in This Episode NMN, FDA, and the Supplement Industry’s Winning Battle Against Pharma NPA Fly-In Day Guide: How to Come Prepared for a “Lobby Day” Dan Fabricant (NPA): Why You Need to Show Up in Washington DC (Episode #100) The NPA is Fighting Dick Durbin’s 2022 Supplement Bill (Episode #067) Thanks to Uday Gosalia for joining from the Capitol steps, and to Joey Savage and Future Nutra for making this episode happen. For anyone ready to get involved in supplement advocacy, our NPA Fly-In D… Read more on the PricePlow Blog

GOTCHA!But seriously.... The new man is Claude AI!In this episode, I share my journey from skepticism to discovering how Claude can help midlife women entrepreneurs grow their business.Claude and I were not friends at first. So what changed? Claude Cowork! In this episode I share:The difference between Claude Chat and Claude Cowork.Why AI didn't replace my voice but amplified it and how it can do the same for you! Three things Claude Cowork can do for you today.No time in history have we been able to streamline, automate and structure our online business as efficiently as we can today. I know it feels scary but I want you to be open to how it can really help you. Grab your headphones and listen in!MORE FROM TERRI:WebsiteThe REDLO Women NetworkTerri's Book, Step ForwardKeep Stepping Forward!

We're coming to you LIVE from the NWPBIS Conference in Tacoma, WA to explore another PBIS myth. Joining us today are Becky Gawenit and Charisse Elliott.Becky is from Battle Ground Public School District in Battle Ground, WA. She's been a part of that district for the last 18 years as either a school psychologist or as a district MTSS coach. Charisse is a behavior program associate with Salem-Keizer Public Schools in Salem, OR. In her role, she works as an advocate for what teachers, students, and families need by focusing on systems to create supportive, inclusive learning environments. In this installment of our Mythbusters series, we discuss whether districts use the data you submit as a gotcha. We talk about how data work best when they inform the decisions you make, but when you submit those same data to the district, they seem work as a punishment. Charisse and Becky help us understand that finding the middle ground involves trusting relationships, honest coaching, and a culture prioritizing improvement over accountability.

Harriet Langley-Swindon and Producer Martin talk to independent councillor Barry Normal about the lack of vetting from the main parties when it comes to the local elections, as well as asking... well, what it is that councillors do, exactly; Eshaan Akbar looks at Reform's proposals to build detention centres in areas that have the audacity to vote Green; and Producer Martin begins a brand new intervestigation (a cross between an interview and an investigation), this time diving into the world of "preppers" - people who are preparing for the end of the world.Thank you to Emily Gordon, who signed up for our Patreon this week. She, like all our Patreons, will be getting a bonus interview with Jemma Phrog, a journalist who has just published a brilliant, twelve-page article about the dangers of the so-called "femosphere". Patreons also get every episode early and without adverts, access to the full video of all our interviews, as well as the Patreon-exclusive monthly Time For Questions podcast so get over to Patreon.com/NonCensored and sign up for one or two pounds a week to support the show, and make it possible for us to pay our guests, if you can. If you don't want to subscribe, but do want to give us a one-off amount, all the Patreon-exclusive videos are available for sale.Please follow our social media accounts!Instagram: @noncensoredpodcastTikTok: @noncensoredpodTake this survey if you don't hate us: http://bit.ly/noncensored-survey.With thanks to Rosie Holt, Brendan Murphy, Eshaan Akbar, Bilal Zafar, Margaret Cabourn-Smith, Rob Thomas and Ed Morrish.Rosie's sitcom, Crossing The Floor, is available now on BBC Sounds. Her play, Churchill's Urinal, runs at the King's Head Theatre from the 13th May to the 6th June (tickets here) , and at the Edinburgh Festival Fringe (tickets here), where she will also be doing a new character comedy/stand-up show, The Illegal Aliens Have Landed (tickets here).Brendan is taking a brand new show, Indy, to the Edinburgh Festival Fringe in August. It's a three-man retelling of Indiana Jones, and tickets are available here.Eshaan has started a new, live podcast called The Early Evening Show, every Sunday evening on YouTube, and his latest stand-up special, Fool Moon, is also available on YouTube.Bilal is taking his new show Rubicon to the Edinburgh Festival Fringe in August, and you can buy tickets here.Margaret hosts the podcast Crushed, which has its own Substack, and is available in all the other usual places, too.Ed also produces Sound Heap With John-Luke Roberts, an award-winning improvised sketch show that features many NonCensored regulars like Rosie, Brendan, Will, Sooz and Joz.Show photography is by Karla Gowlett and design is by Chris Barker. Original music is by Paddy Gervers and Rob Sell at Torch and Compass.NonCensored is a Lead Mojo production Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Andrew returns with his latest blueprint for a gothic mystery, and the coaching quickly zeroes in on what will make it work: a clear, compelling villain and twists that truly land. With help from thriller coach and Thrillerfest executive director Samantha Skal, the discussion unpacks the hidden layer of the story—what the villain is actually doing—and how that contrasts with the protagonist's assumptions.As they dig in, it becomes clear that strengthening the mystery means making the murders more personal, introducing a convincing false suspect, and mapping both the visible story and the truth underneath it. By the end, Andrew has a sharper path forward: deepen the villain's motive, raise the stakes earlier, and build each twist so it feels both surprising and inevitable.#AmWriting is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.About Book Coach Sam SkalA fan of the scary, mysterious, and suspenseful, Samantha Skal is the Executive Director of ThrillerFest, the co-founder of Shadows & Secrets writing retreats, and an Author Accelerator-certified book coach who specializes in coaching mystery, thriller, horror, and suspense authors. Sam writes stories that keep her up at night, is a breast cancer survivor, and lives in the beautiful Pacific Northwest. Learn more at www.samanthaskal.com and www.shadowsandsecrets.com. Catch Up on Andrew's Hot Seat Coaching JourneyTranscriptHi, I'm Jennie Nash, and you're listening to the #amwriting podcast, the place where we help writers of all kinds play big in your writing life, love the process, and stick with it long enough to finish what matters most.This is a hot seat coaching episode where we work through a real challenge in real time.And today we're back talking with Andrew Perella, the hashtag am writing podcast producer who has stepped out from behind the mic to work on a novel. And where we left Andrew last time was you'd worked through the whole blueprint and you were tasked with completing. Inside outline. So before we get into our guest and, um, what we're gonna do today, how was that, what was it like for you?Um, I mean, it was, it was, uh, really hard. Uh, but it was, it was, uh, it was really gratifying and it was, it was a lot of fun to do as well. Um. Because I think, um, part of, part of the assignment, you, you, you left for me, [00:01:00] Jenny, was to also beef out certain elements of certain, certain, the presence of certain characters, um, and certain and certain elements of the book.And so I was trying to do that as well as. As, as crafting the outline. Um, and so yeah, it was, it was a long, it was a struggle. It was a struggle, especially to get it to three, to keep it to three, to get it down to three pages. I know, and I'm very strict about that for reasons you are. Um, and. Did you feel a sense of accomplishment when you did it though?Like, oh, this is a book and I'm writing it, or how did that land? Yeah, I mean, like at first I just started writing. I started writing the scene bullets and the, and the points, and just started like, okay, what are all the, what are all the elements that that. I have in my head that I need to get down onto paper and it was like 6, 7, 8 pages.And I was like, okay, now I gotta get this down to three pages. Um, and, and, and I was like, okay, I can combine these two scenes or maybe I don't need this. So I just ended up cutting a lot and cutting a lot [00:02:00] and getting it down. So like, yes, there was a sense of like. Completion. Um, that was certainly gratifying, uh, to get that.And, uh, I had a couple of late nights, um, getting that, getting that squared away, but yeah, it also feels, feels more real now. Um, and it's like, yeah, there's, there's, there's a, there's a there here, which I'm pretty excited about. I'm excited about too, and I'm also excited because we're doing something really cool today.Um, and we have with us Samantha Skull, who I will introduce in a hot second. But hi Samantha. Hi. Thanks so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. Well, I'm excited too because, um. Sam, as I call her, um, I've known for quite some time. She's one of the OG author, accelerator certified coaches. And Sam, you actually don't know this, but I use you.Probably every day.Oh my God, I'm so flattered as an example of [00:03:00] what a great book coach should do, which is to focus and choose who you're gonna serve and how you're gonna serve them, and to really go deep into what you love and what you wanna do all day. Right? The read books all day and get paid for it thing like do what you love and you.Do that. You've done that just so powerfully and it's so visible on your website, which we'll link to in the show notes so folks can go see, but. Sam loves all the dark and suspenseful and scary mystery, twisty things, which always just cracked me up because I don't, and that's what's so beautiful about book coaching and writing for that matters.Everybody has their own thing and, and that's part of the work of writing Big is. What is your thing? You know? So the reason that I wanted Sam to come is she's built a whole business on this type of work and with, um, another author, [00:04:00] accelerator coach, she runs a really cool, uh, writing retreat that is, um, it's always in Salem.Right. It is in a haunted hotel, which, um, Carrie Savage, who is my co-founder in shadows and secrets, uh, loves being haunted. I do not choose to be haunted, so I choose the non haunted floor. So they have that retreat and they, um, have just started taking it virtual and just all kinds of tools and resources and things for people writing this kind of work.And in addition to that, I. I just am always impressed by your trajectory of having gone from. A volunteer at the Thriller Fest. Well, for a participant at the Thriller Fest conference to being a volunteer, to running the Pitch Fest piece of the thing. And now you're, well then you were co-director, now you're running the whole thing.You're, you're, yes, I am. You're running the entire [00:05:00] Thriller Fest conference, which is how many writers every year. Oh, we have around a thousand and I have a team behind me. Just to be clear. This would not happen without a village, but uh, yes, we have around a thousand thriller authors who come to New York and we, uh, we talk about the dark stuff all week.It's absolutely the, the best time. And it's in two weeks. I can't, I mean, when this comes out, it may have already passed, but yeah, can't wait. No, this is coming out right before, so if anybody wants a quick getaway to New York, they should go. But also just the programming, watch the programming coming out of it and we're so excited.Yeah, it's really good. So, um, I just, I love the career you've built for yourself. It's always just really inspiring to me. And, um, also a recent breast cancer survivor, so we're, uh, always wanna shout out to that. Yes. Get your scans. That's my PSA. Always love it. Same. Love it. Love it. So I wanted Sam to come look at Andrew's inside [00:06:00] outline because I knew that the thing he has to work on is this, what I call in my not totally expertise in this area.I call the twisties of it. That there's a, you know, it's a mystery. It's a murder, it's a gothic, it's horror. It's all the things. And it, those twists have to land. And this is so much Sam's expertise that the whole time I was talking to Andrew about it and guiding him and coaching him, I just kept thinking, we need Sam in here.So, so we got Sam in here. And so, um, Andrew completed his inside outline and Sam very graciously, um, agreed to look through it and to look through his whole blueprint. So before we get into what you saw and what you found, Sam. I just love to hear, I mean, this is so self-serving. I just like nothing more than reading a blueprint.I think it's so fun. Um, just to like, [00:07:00] kind of peel back the, the cover and see what's in there. Did, did you have fun with that? Oh my gosh. So much fun. Andrew. This story is, is so cool. And I love the historical elements and the rethinking of, you know, vampires are running around London and everyone's just like, that's fine.You know, and then how does, how does this all go down? And we have this very agency filled, moxie filled main character who's just a delight and yeah, I loved it. I have, I have so many fun questions to ask you. So Andrew, how does that feel? I mean, it feels great and I, I was reading through, uh, through both of your notes, um, in the, in the, in the outline and like you're asking all of these questions.Um. Some of them that I have not thought of before and like, so I'm, so I'm really excited to kind of dig into these and talk through them. But I'm, I'm, it's really gratifying to hear that this, that this idea is, is, is, is an interesting one. Yeah. I loved it. I a hundred [00:08:00] percent read this book. I'd, I'd see it and be like, yes, I want, I want to be in that world.Cool. Well that's why you're here. Because I would be like, no, too scary. Too scary for me. So, um, I'm gonna let. Sam sort of take it away and, uh, we could talk for days, I'm sure about this, but one of the, the things I love about book coaches who are well trained is they'll hone in on the most important, the most important things.So. What do you think, Sam? What's the most important thing Andrew should be thinking about in his next iteration of this outline? Yeah, so my favorite thing to talk about outta the gate with Mr. Thriller and suspense and gothic horror, depending on how dark you wanna make this, um, is who is the person who's really behind all these murders and why are they committing them?Right? I like to think of MTS mystery full or suspense as the villain's journey as experienced by the [00:09:00] protagonist. Mm-hmm. Right. So we, we must know what's going on beneath the surface in order for those twists to land, because twists are just assumptions about what's going on that the protagonist makes.And when the truth, you know, what's really going on with the villain is revealed, it's twisty because it's unexpected. Mm-hmm. So if we don't, therefore if we don't know who's. Who's behind, who's doing all these villainous things. Um, we struggle to make those twists land and we struggle to get a blueprint that we can actually follow.So tell me your thoughts on who this mastermind murderer is and why they're doing what they're doing. Um, so. So Jack Seward is the, is the, is the Mastermind behind this. And I've been, I've been thinking a lot about it this week since I, since I finished the, since I finished the outline. And a lot of other things have occurred to me about who this gentleman is and how he's doing what he's doing.But I think the why is, um, he is committed to the status quo. He is committed [00:10:00] to, uh, uh, uh, uh, a, you know, uh. He is committed to the manosphere. He is committed to the patriarchy. He has committed to, um, the previous way of doing things. Um. In, in, in society, in politics, in medicine. And so like he's seeing this sea change, um, in all of those areas.Um, with the advent of this, of this, um, medical school for women, uh, with the, with this vote, um, vote, uh, that is happening. Um, and he disapproves and so his goal is to disrupt all of those, um. Disruptions di uh, by pitting them against each other. Got it. So if he can, if he can. Create this illusion that vampires are preying on Suffr jets.They will be too busy fighting each other to try and find any sort of, uh, agency for [00:11:00] themselves. Aha. Very, very well thought out. I love that. As a, as a mastermind villain goal. So here's the other thing, is that mm-hmm. In the genre expectation for any sort of modern mystery, full or suspense, is that we have three twists.We have one at the mid and we can have more. Right. But we have one at the midpoint, which is just the midpoint turn. Like it's, it's a classic story thing, which you already have. You have a great midpoint currently. Mm-hmm. Um, and the climactic twist is the reveal of, uh, as, as Carrie, my co-founder and shadows and secrets likes to say, um, the climactic.Confrontation answers the story question, which is presented in the inciting incident and typically in mysteries, the inciting incident is who's doing the killing? Right? Like, who's behind this dead body that we have early on? And we'll talk about that in just a second. Um, so the climactic answers that question, and then we have a final twist, which is typically the reveal of this gentleman who wants to keep things as is.And he [00:12:00] meanwhile. During the course of the story is going to be taking action to stop, uh, our plucky protagonist from stopping him, right? Mm-hmm. So he's a full antagonist to our protagonist. And in that way we need a fake villain, right? We need someone that he can have set up so that she thinks this is the person behind everything in the climactic scene.And then she gets to the end and is like, oh my gosh, I've. You know, I've conquered, I've brought chaos to order, I've solved this thing, and now, oh my God, now there's somebody else who's actually behind everything. And actually we're still in grave danger and we didn't even know to be worried about this.And that's how you get that like, you know, 85 to 98% just ripping through the pages readers, you know, being so hooked to figure out what happened. Right. Um, so. Tell me a little bit more about who Seward could have set up or manipulated or something [00:13:00] else to commit these murders so that he gets done what he wants to get done, but he also protects himself.And if you don't know the answer, that's okay. We can brainstorm. But if you do, then that's great. So this is, this is kind of part of the, the, the thought, the idea that I've had since I, since I finished the, the, the, uh, the outline is. Because the, the syringe idea mm-hmm. The double-headed syringe idea always felt a little tenuous.Uh, like I, I wasn't quite sure that that was gonna hold, but, so my new thought about this is, is. Because he is, uh, he is the, uh, director of a mental institution. Um, and so, and so, like, that's a whole other politic where he has people who are, uh, who are in his thra essentially. And so is there a way that he can coerce, um, a vampire who needs him to commit these murders on his behalf, thereby kind of insulating himself from the actions.Perfect. And [00:14:00] so I think that could, so the climactic twist would then be. It's a vampire I disco discovering that the, the, this is the vampires committing the murders. But then the, the, the final twist is, oh s**t, he's been doing this at the behest of, of Seward, who's her, you know, kind of Yes, yes. As it were in quotation.Okay. Yes. That sounds amazing. And it also, you know, when we step into this story, um, in your initial scene, we have. Vampires feeding on people and Abby's just like, uh, okay, that's, that's normal. Right? And so is that, did I read that right? Is that the world that we're in? Is that We have vampires existing and Van Helsing, you know, was the one who kept them in check.And we have all that like lore that we're dealing with that the reader brings in. So tell me more about the world I'm walking into here. So, yeah, I think I'm still developing this world. So we're 20 years. Around 20 years after the events of Dracula. Okay. The, the, the novel. And so, and I think, I think people are now aware that [00:15:00] vampires exist.And I think, you know, at this, at the same time, they're being used as like this bogey man or, or, or straw man of like, everything that is wrong with, with British society. Um, but they're also. Not the monsters, right? They're, they're just another, another, um, community that is trying to, uh, eke out, eke out some sort of existence.Um, I love that so much. It's just such a fun, sort of new twist on. Know a story that's so well known and has been in our collective conscience for a hundred years. You know, I don't know when, when Dracula came out. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a long time, right? A little over a hundred years. Yeah. It's been a minute.It's been a minute. Um, and so I, so it's still very much a period of transition as, as you know, London and the world are still trying to figure out what that means, that these things actually exist and live among us. Um, and, uh, and so. There were [00:16:00] some things that didn't make it into the outline like I had.There was this one scene where they're walking down the street and there's someone on the soapbox at speaker's Corner at Hyde Park who's railing against, who's railing against, uh, um, vampires as like a sturge on society and things of that nature. And, and there'll be things in the newspaper. I think that kind of addressed this new, this new politic, um, that, that the characters interact with.And so I'm still feeling out what exactly it means. That vampires exist and are part of the public consciousness. Yeah. So one sort of logical question that comes up for me there is, you know, if we're in society and there's just like monsters living among us who occasionally pick people off on the street, that would create a level of, um, extreme tension.Okay. Right. One might say, right, like, yeah, if I'm wandering down the street and I see a vampire eating somebody that's not just like a, you know, we would be taking steps to protect ourselves because humans are always going to protect themselves, and so yes. You [00:17:00] know what, if you change it where the vampires are only allowed to feed on like livestock or something.Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You know, something that's like the, nobody's happy, right? Yeah. Like, like most, uh, um, situations where we, we agree on something and we're, we're all giving something up. Yeah. But that allows them to exist in society and live among us. Right? Like the, the veil has been lifted. Vampires are here.But they've agreed to only eat livestock, and then the fact that they're murdering people by eating them then becomes. A huge deal. Right? Because this Deante that we've had with them is now broken. Mm-hmm. Um, something like that, because I think if we, if we have it just being casual that they're, they're eating people in alleys or whatever, it reduces, I mean, that's a fun story, don't get me wrong.Yeah, yeah. But that reduces the impact of the murders that we are seeking to solve with this and Right. You know, you said this was, this was a mystery. And so currently [00:18:00] we don't have a ton of mystery on the page like we have. The midpoint is where, um, she discovers that things might not be what they seem, which I love.But in order for that to have impact, we need something earlier. And that could be, you know, these murders have been happening for a few days. That could be the last year. It could be she sees the first murder. Um. Something along those lines, but we need something early. So we, we understand the tension and we understand the mystery story question because you have a ton of other story questions in here, but if this is mystery first, the mystery story question needs to be who committed, who is committing these murders and why?Yep. Yeah. Does that kind of, that makes sense? Land? Yes. No, absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. Now as a, as as I was, I was rereading the outline, the other, the other, the, the other night. And I was like, I feel, I feel like there needs to be another murder scene. Yeah. Earlier we gotta up the body count in the, the book.Yeah. You know, it's a, it's a, it's a conversation I have every day. [00:19:00] Yeah. Not, not enough dead bodies. Not enough dead. Not enough dead bodies. Yeah. So, you know, and so if she is, if she's really worried about, you know, that's their question is why, why is she so involved in solving these murders? How do we make it personal to her?Mm-hmm. And so could this be a friend? Could this be. You know, um, a sister, could this be an aunt, like some something that's related to her so that this person is taken out. And then that becomes Seward has targeted her because she's the, she's, you know, van sing's niece, right? Yep. Yeah. So she's a public figure that if he takes out by having a vampire.Quote, you know, kill her. Then he will have achieved his goal of disrupting this whole thing and be like, look how dangerous it's for women to be out in the world and you know. Mm-hmm. We should put a stop to this. Like that achieves his goal, but she won't know. Right. Obviously that [00:20:00] that's his goal. Right.But he also needs to create the unrest, so it's not just, you know, she's the one who's murdered. That's going to be the climactic plan and he will have killed other people in the meantime. Right. Okay. Something like that. Like we need to make, yeah. Whatever it is that needs to be personal to her. And if she paint, if she paints a target on her back later on by being a ksky, amateur sleuth, which is classic.Um. That works well as well. But I like, you know, one of the questions I love to ask is, what was your villain doing on the day that their prote, the pro protagonist, decided to ruin their life by deciding to go after and stop them from villain. And so maybe she had nothing to do with any of this and she's researching and becomes a problem.That's the other way you could play it. Mm-hmm. Um. But, you know, if he has this grand plan and he's like, Ooh, Abby would make a great sort of like, figurehead to the end of all these murders, and that's the one that I'm gonna point at it and be like, [00:21:00] look, we can't, you know, I, we can't have these women out here.Right? Something like that could work well. Um, what do you think? What, what's, what's your brain do when I say all those things? Um, it's interesting. I hadn't considered, I hadn't considered that her uncle would be targeting her. One of the things I've been grappling with was like. One of the reasons he targets people around her is to scare her away from med school to scare her away from the cause, okay.Um, and kind of pin her in further to the existing, to the existing, um, um, status quo. Um, and so I hadn't considered him using her. Sacrificing her for his, uh, for his ultimate goals. Yeah. Um, and that's an in, that's an interesting idea. And, and if she were to discover that would certainly up to stakes, um, that would certainly up to stakes for her.It would. And so if you want him to be a little more [00:22:00] empathetic Right. We don't need to go like full dark if you don't want to. Right. Um, he could be trying to protect her. By killing other people, which is misguided. Yeah. But, uh, fun. Right? And then that would make sense. So when she figures out it's actually him, he could be like, I was doing all of this to protect you because I love you.You're in my family. Right? Yeah. That also works. But we need to have whatever his, his plan is for causing, you know, using these murders to achieve his goal. If she's, she needs to be the target of it so that it's very personal to her as she moves through this story. Um, and upping the stakes is always great.It amps the tension, right? Yeah. And again, she's not gonna know any of this until she gets to that final twist. And so one of like the most fine chilling, you know, tingly things that you can do with mysteries is that reveal at the very end. We as through the protagonist, understand how much danger we were in [00:23:00] this entire story, and we had no idea.Right? And that moment is the one that we're seeking with readers and for ourselves, right? It's like, how do we have that moment that reveal have the biggest impact possible? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Something like that. Yeah. I, I see Andrew just grinning, like, what are you, whatcha feeling? He's just like, got his giant grin on his face.I mean, like, and like I said, I've been trying to figure out how, because it, because as I was reading, as I was reading through the outline, it did feel like, like abriana was just kind of like adjacent to mm-hmm. All of the murders. Um, and, and Jenny, you and I had talked about whether there was an active investigation and, and, and Sam, I think you kind of alluded to that in, in the notes, is there, is there an active investigation and like, is she, is, is Abriana being.Is, uh, uh, coroner does a suspect by the, by the investigators. Um, is that, why, is that why she is doing her own investigation? Um, [00:24:00] which is another, which is another way to to, to up the stakes. Mm-hmm. Also, um, I, yeah, I'm, I'm, that's an interest, that's an interesting way though to, that's an interesting take on Seward, who's, um, an avuncular figure.He's not, like, he's not a blood relation. To Abriana, but like he is, he is determined in his goal and like, you know, he would, he probably would stop at nothing to get that done, even if it meant, even if it meant, uh, the daughter of a friend of his got killed. Yeah, I mean, just thinking through, and this is your homework, really, is to think through how dark do you want to make him, right?Because you can have a villain who starts off with. A, uh, a goal and decides to achieve it through very ill-advised means, but still wants to protect the people around them, right? Like they can be both. We don't have to have it be a hundred percent. [00:25:00] This person is so evil and willing to burn it all down, right?And so, but that can also be a series of bad decisions. It's like bad decision one leads to, oh my God, like people are finding out that these aren't really vampires. Now I have to really like double down to make it really seem like vampires, so I don't get caught. Because guess what, if I get caught, my life is ruined.Right? And you know, as Abby gets closer, he realizes. I have to kill her. Right? Yeah. She's, she's gonna ruin everything. Yeah. And that sort of angst and that, you know, that would be very painful for him. That could be the thing that when she confronts him at the end, and there will be a de Ma, right? We're gonna have something where he's like, I did all these things for this reason.And it doesn't have to be Yeah. Pages, but we do have a, that's a classic mystery thing. Mm-hmm. She'll understand if you like this, that you know, he was trying to protect her and then. He'll be like, you did this to yourself. You know, like, right. Yeah. You're the one who got in the way. Um, something like [00:26:00] that.And he's like, mm-hmm. My only choice now is to kill you. And then of course she will not allow that because she's our lucky protagonist and will survive because chaos will be brought to order. That's the other big thing is we wanna wrap this up unless you're going who, in which case. It gets worse at the very end.Um, is, is that, is that, is that allowed? Yeah, we, yeah. Well, to keep chaos on the chaos, absolutely. We just need it genre bending is. So hot right now, right? Um, and it's really fun, right? So you can have both, you can have the main mystery wrapped up, like she can, Abby can figure out, okay, this wasn't actually vampires and someone is posing as a vampire.And so that actually changes your midpoint, by the way. We'll talk about that in a second. But if that's the arc, right? She thinks it's vampires. She is, when she does the climactic confrontation, she's like, it's vampires like someone, you know, what are they doing? Why are they doing this? And then realizes [00:27:00] in that, that it wasn't vampires and it's actually someone else.Um, the chaos will be brought to order in that way, right? Like we have, we have a right, we have figured out that someone was posing as a vampire. But what if you have a final, final twist where you know, there actually are vampires. Killing people as well. Like seaward only admits to three of these murders and then there's someone else doing, you know, and it's just like we end it with like, oh no.You know? Right. Yeah. Or by, maybe there's something mystical with like by imitating a vampire or that, you know, the vampires have been gathering their energy for the last 20 years by feeding on goats and you know, they're ready to, we need a new van Helsing to, to keep them under control or something. And Abby takes up that mantle and, you know.You can, you can totally play it where there's an unanswered. Okay. Oh no, it's worse at the end, but we do need some sort of wrap up of the story. Gotcha. But there does seem to be some cover resolution. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. I see what you're saying. That makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense. So it strikes [00:28:00] me, I'm not sure that you picked this up, Sam, and you might not have, but that there's a.Uh, um, Mina the Vampire. Mina, yeah, yeah, yeah. Is is her mother. Right. I did pick up on that, and that's a question I have. Okay. Yeah. Great. Because it seems like what you're all talking about that could play a really important role in any of these twists and arcs. Right. I. Yes. Yes. Plus one. Yeah. Everything you just said.Um, yeah. So Mina being her mother, fantastic. One of your final twists, right? And particularly if you have Seward being like the final confrontation, final twist person, and then, you know, you have this lovely final scene where she's like, oh my God, it's my mother. Um, yeah. But the logical question there is why would Mina Hyde, what's she after?Why would she not have tried to help Abby? Right? Because you're dealing with reader expectations that mothers will do anything to protect their children. Right? And so you can, we can twist that. Maybe she is trying to protect her from what's coming, right? [00:29:00] Like what's actually going on. Maybe she's the one who's been protecting her the whole time by warding off the vampires that have been attacking her, her friends at medical school.Um. And that's why there's so many mistaken identity things, right? Because you have two where, where Abby's like, whoops. I think that was supposed to be for me. Yeah. Um, and so the reader's gonna wonder why are they so bad at killing her, right? Like, if these were assassin attempts, like why wouldn't what, what's going on?And so that answers that question. If it's Mina stepping in, but you know, we need to understand what Mina's really after and why she didn't step forward sooner. That's a huge question that, you know, yeah. Everyone will have. Yeah, it is a huge question. Like, like where has she been for the last 18 years?Mm-hmm. Why has Aubrianna not seen her since, since, since her birth? Um, and I haven't quite nailed that down yet. Like, is there some sort of like vampire code? I don't like, I don't know. Is it, is it that she's, is that she, that Mina. Knows [00:30:00] Jonathan, her husband too well, and knows that, that he would not allow a vampire, uh, to interact with his children.Like. And so I think there, I think there are a couple of answers to that, but I haven't like, landed on one yet. Um, but I, like, I, I like the idea of Mina working kind of behind the scenes to protect, to actively protect, um. Abriana, which is what that, that opening that, that, that scene in the alley earlier on is about, is like she comes to her aid at that point.Um, and, uh, and, and and physically puts herself between, between Abri and Abriana and the violence, which Abriana misunderstands, uh, and runs away terrified. But I think, I, I think there are ways to incorporate that, as you say. Elsewhere in the, elsewhere in the story. Yeah. Well, I mean she, to make to a fantastic twist would be, she assumes Mina is the one after her, right?Right. Yeah. Like she recalls in this opening scene that Mina was coming at her and is like, Ooh, that's the vampire that wants to kill me. Yeah, yeah. And [00:31:00] you know, sees her around. And so that's her assumption. And this is how you create twists, right? Her assumption is that Nina is the person behind all of this, and why, but.You run the risk of when she starts investigating Mina and figuring out who she is? It would be, we'd figure out we need some very good reason that she couldn't figure out that was that Mina was her mother, right? Yeah. Yes. So in that case, I would suggest having some other vampire be the one that she thinks is behind everything.Um, which leads me to the midpoint. So currently this is where she discovers that these bite marks are not bite marks at all. They are. Other Marks syringes. Right, right. Like the, yeah. Yeah. Um, so if that's the midpoint, which I like, again, that means that she's going to assume that there is a human or a vampire who's lost her teeth.I don't know, um, behind all of this. And the climactic confrontation will be with that, [00:32:00] with that knowledge that this is not a vampire doing these villainous things. Um. So how does that feel? Like do if, do we, is there someone in the cast that we can sort of have her assume is that person that's not Seward.Not, not someone that I've identified yet. Um, okay. But I, I, I, I agree with you. We need, we need someone that she, that she's pursuing and, uh, in, at, in, in that sense. Um, and, and she believed, I, I, I see, I see. Now I see what you're saying. That the, the importance of her making that, that, that incorrect assumption that this is the person who's, who's doing, who's doing the, the killings.And I don't know who that is yet. I don't know if there's someone actively in the, in the cha in the cast that we have, or if I need, if I need a new character. Okay. I mean, you can also play with, you know, so this is the thing about mysteries, it gets very quickly complicated, is on the surface we have all the assumptions which are incorrect.[00:33:00] Right? Right. And so we have to build up that, those plots and make it plausible. Yeah. Because we need, you know, the example I like to give is like, let's say you, you come home and you're expecting that no one else is there and there's an open window and there is a earring back on the counter and a bloody footprint on your.You know, nice white carpet and you know, um, a knocked over plant and then you recall, oh yes, you know the nab I've been babysitting the neighbor's cat, they knocked over the plant. So that's solved. But this bloody footprint is really freaking me out because clearly somebody came in here and made a bloody footprint and that's terrifying.You're focusing on the bloody footprint because that's the most obvious thing, but the earring back is the thing that is the villain clue. Right, and that, that's the person that came in and misled you by putting the bloody footprint on the carpet for reasons, capital R, whatever it is in this story, right?But we have clocked on screen, on the page what the clue is and ignored it. And so yeah, [00:34:00] this is how you can go back in on a revision and you know, you maybe we don't know who this other person is that's actually doing this, but they will have a vested interest in not being caught. Right? Mm-hmm. And so these little clues that we put on the page later are ignored, and then we're following the story that we've already created.Mm-hmm. Um, but keeping track of all these layers feels complicated, which is why Jenny's outline with three pages is so, so useful. Um, right. Because what the, what's on the page is the, is the story that you already, that we're focusing on, right? Mm-hmm. And then what really happened? Mm-hmm. Is the thing beneath the surface that we don't learn until the truth is revealed in one of these twists.Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah. No, that absolutely makes sense. That Absolutely. That also feels like a lot to think about. It is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't have, I don't have enough red earrings. I don't have enough mis, I don't have enough misdirecting. Misdirecting clues, as it were. Right. Well, those are fun to brainstorm, right?Because we start thinking [00:35:00] about who really, it comes back to Seward. Like what would he be doing to misdirect Abby away from this? Right. To keep her safe, if you like that as a goal. Yeah. And also to make the, make society freak out about how vampires are killing again. Mm-hmm. Um, what would he plant, who would he manipulate?Who would he pay off? You know? Mm-hmm. Maybe there's a vampire who knows about all of this, and. Is trying to kill the person that Seward is hired to do the syringes because Seward's not going around and doing this. Abby would've seen him or you know mm-hmm. Recognized him or something. So he will have paid someone to, or it has someone in his organization who also believes in the cause.Yeah. And is doing this, and maybe that person's a vampire. I don't know. I do love the double syringe. I mean, I hope that stays. Yeah. Yeah. It's good. It's good. Is it? Yeah. I heard you say, I heard you kind of dismiss it, Andrew, but it, to me, that would be a perfect misdirection if [00:36:00] somebody finds that and now there's this whole thread of assumptions about what that means and Yeah, but that it's not really what it is or it's not being used the way we think, or so.Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. Sam, you mentioned something because I was, I was getting close to like throwing that overboard. No, it's good. No. Okay. Okay. I think it is good. So, so, so, so, but that could still be, that could still be used as a, that could still, I could still use it as a red herring potentially, uh, because it could still be a vampire at Seward's behest committing the murders.But maybe they're doing it with the syringe or maybe they're, and or maybe they're doing it a little bit with their own or Right. Or not. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, to Jenny's point, this could be a total, maybe. Maybe it's not used for what we think. Maybe the double syringe is something completely unrelated and it's like the best way to draw out the.I don't know. I mean, depending on, maybe he is drugging the people in the [00:37:00] asylum, like giving them more drugs than they're supposed to have. Right, right. And, and he devised, I mean, you know, devised a double syringe to deliver it and doesn't want anybody to know that that's what he is doing, you know? Yeah, yeah.Okay. Yeah, yeah. But if you wanna play with the idea that there's also a vampire involved who believes in Seward's? Cause then that, you know. That's very interesting because it's like, well, why? What do they want? You know? Yeah, yeah. Or even just someone who is, is being coerced by him, who does, doesn't necessarily Yes.Believe in the cause, but is perhaps is, has perhaps been assigned to his asylum. Mm-hmm. And he's taking advantage of, I love. Which I think, I think really makes sewer to a, a pretty despicable individual on a number of levels, which I, which I can like, well, I mean, he's already killing people, so, right. You know, slippery slope.But that's what, you know, it's, that's the, [00:38:00] that's the thing is that his, his goals. We need to make logical sense when we get to the end and Right. You know, Abby figures out what's going on, but he, he can also be empathetic. Right? Yeah. Like, why is he so scared of women? Yeah. Being in society, what is, what is that deep fear about?And that's definitely something to explore as well. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, so we could, like I said, talk for days, for days about these things, but, um, it feels like this is a good place to leave Andrew with a whole bunch of work to do. And I'm just laughing because, um, this is such a perfect example of.Why we do a blueprint, right? There's so much to work out. There's so much to think about. There's so many layers and levels to every story. And, uh, you know, we, we heard you today, Andrew, sort of going, well, I don't know. I haven't thought about it. I don't know. I, I'll have to see, you know, that's, that's the work and being in that.[00:39:00] Discomfort and that not knowing mm-hmm. And the, all the possibilities and making your choices. That's, that's a work, right Sam? Like that's, it is, it's so fun. But yeah, it's mysteries are puzzles, right? Yeah. And we wanna guide the reader through the puzzle in a way that gives them maximum impact and maximum joy.For every reveal that we decide to put out there, right? We, we, we don't want to casually have a reveal. Everything is on purpose. Um, and so I was gonna say on, on the inside outline that you have, um, a parallel one, or, you know, if you make it even tighter just to flow the flow of events, you can have a, what really happened?Um, line which tracks what the villain is actually doing. And I do find that that can be really helpful because it does get overwhelming with figuring out, okay, we have assumptions. Yeah. And those assumptions are, you know, lead to action and this is how we get a repulsive plot. But those assumptions are.Not going to be the [00:40:00] actual thing that is the truth. And so we need to track what the truth is and what our villain is doing to stop our protagonist from stopping them because Yeah, forces of opposition, you know, so just for our listeners to clarify that makes sense. What Sam's talking about is a parallel inside outline is, is to literally do.An a three page outline for the, the villain? Yes, yes. Or to put a bullet point or a, a subpoint on the protagonists inside. Outline that. Tracks that, um, sometimes people color code that. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know, but the, that's why we keep this so tight because if you start making it nine pages or 15 pages and then you layer these things, all of a sudden you have a 30 page outline, and now you've just got one of those giant story grid things that I find to be impossible to, to manipulate.Like we still want this to be manipulatable, right. So that you [00:41:00] can. Hold it in your hands and see it and, and then get to a place where you say, I can write that story. I love this story. I can write this story. That's, so that's what we're going for. So, yeah. Um, Sam, could you maybe just summarize, um, Andrew will take some time to work on this next iteration to show me.Can you give him direction on key thing to think about and me direction on the key thing to look for? Yeah, of course. So the biggest thing is figure out what Seward's really, why he's really doing what he's doing and how it relates directly to Abby. Right. What is, what action can he take that is about her, and that's either protecting her or, you know.Um, killing someone close to her to scare her away, but then why, right? Mm-hmm. So figure out the, figure out what he's really doing, and then look and see what actions, what other actions would he take about who this other person [00:42:00] is that he's framing or manipulating, or blackmailing or whatever. And if that's a vampire, then.You know, why does that work when we, when it's revealed? Like, what else could be going on? That makes sense. Perhaps the vampires don't want women and suffragettes to have this power because it threatens the power that they have in society currently, or something like that, or mm-hmm. Whatever it is. But figure out what, what's really going on.That's your homework, that's your big homework. Mm-hmm. And then, you know, for the next iteration. More murder on the page, right? We need the attention to rise and we need to understand why Abby, as she takes her steps based on assumptions, what are those assumptions? Why is she so personally invested in this?Why doesn't she just give up, right? Because that's the big logical question that I always ask is for both the antagonist and your protagonist, why don't they just walk away? Why do they keep doing this when it gets hard, right? Because when someone's actively trying to [00:43:00] stop you as the protagonist is. For the antagonist, why would the antagonist not just be like, okay, this is too tough, right?Like, I'm, I'm out, uh, this is, my goal isn't going to be achieved. So why do they both keep going? And the answer is usually we're in too deep, right? We can't, the only way out is through, um, which is what the midpoint establishes. Usually. It's like, well, shoot, you know, I can't leave this story. I have to keep going.Right? So the three twists, right? We want the assumptions to be present on the inside outline. So we have a midpoint twist. We have an inciting incident that presents the mystery story question, murder usually. Mm-hmm. And then climactic twist, who is this fake villain? And then final villain, Seward. And then final, final twist.Mina is actually involved, right? And has been protecting her the whole time or whatever, right? Yeah. Okay. So on the page, assumptions is second part of that homework, but you have to figure out what really happened in order to have the assumptions, which are Yeah, not [00:44:00] right. Yeah. So drawing, drawing out those two timelines of the, what, what actually happened, timeline, and then the assumptions, timeline and how they, well, the assumptions are gonna be on the page, right?Those will be on your protagonist inside outline, right? Because it, it informs her actions. And so everything you have about her fighting to go to med school and like all these things, all that works. All we're doing is just tweaking it a little bit so that the mystery is more. Front and center, and she's taking action based on, okay, I have this clue, what do I do?Now I have this clue. What do I do now? What stands in the way of each time I do this? Oops, I'm wrong about that. So what now? You know? Okay. And in the meantime it's clear that her personal stakes are rising and she is becoming a target. There's more attempts on her life and, and you know, then what? Right.Once you have a target on your back, you can't run. Yeah. Yeah. So. Yeah. Make it scarier. That's your homework. Yeah, I do. I do. I have to put her in [00:45:00] peril. I have to put her in peril. Right? You do. Yeah. Yeah. And the final thing I'll mention about this is when you actually get to writing the way that you, even if it's, even if the actions are a little less intense, right?We don't actually have an assassin coming at her every page because we'd get bored with that. So through interiority, through inner thought, she's going to think about what she's scared of throughout the entire book. Mm-hmm. It's not just gonna be, oh, I assume this thing. It's like I assume this thing. And also I'm terrified because you know what, if this is about that, and that's how you create those red herrings too, is because she's going to make assumptions about what's happening, and those assumptions will be based in fear.Right. Love it. Right. That makes sense. Love it. That makes sense. Thank you. My God. You're so welcome. Love this story. Can't wait to read it. Are you still with us, Andrew? You're not. You're not walking away. Right. You're not like, I'm in too deep now. No. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Just past the midpoint. Yeah, I was gonna say good.Good. No, that's why, that's why I'm, that's why I'm grinning so [00:46:00] much. It's like, it's like, ‘cause we're talking about this as if it's an actual, real thing. It's not just, it's not just an idea that I've, I've, I've had and been, I've been telling my wife about this is an actual, this is an actual thing I'm talking with people about.Um, and so this is, this is real. This is. It is real. It's exciting. Um, we will, uh, see how this unfolds for Andrew and Sam, I just wanna thank you so much for joining us and talking about all this. Um, and I'm gonna tell our listeners that if you want this kind of twisty help, um, that's Samantha's website, which is samantha skull.com and that's SKAL.She has a really cool, um, very inexpensive twist. Course, which you can, um, take. It's just awesome. And it's, um, she got some blueprint stuff on there, all kinds of things. And you can learn also about the retreat that she runs with carrieSavage@shadowsandsecrets.com. And you can go to Thriller [00:47:00] Fest and see all of the big work she's doing for this community of writers out in the world.So Sam, thank you for coming on. Oh, thank you so much for having me. And I just wanna say, Jenny, the reason that I focused, I mean, yes, I love this stuff and I have, I've loved it my whole life, but I listened to you. This was your. To focus in on what I love and I did. And it's just the best I get to wake up every day and talk about murder, which sounds like a terrible hobby, but I love it.So here we are. I know. That's why I talk about you all the time. Maybe that's it. ‘cause you listen toI, I, uh, I push people a lot harder now, let's put it that way. Um. Amazing. That's, that is my craft. But thank you Andrew, again, for being so willing to be doing this in public. It's not easy for those listening just to be on the hot seat like this for so long, so often really hard. So, um, you, [00:48:00] huge, huge shout out to Andrew and shout.Um, just for our listeners, thanks for tuning in and let's get back to work. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit amwriting.substack.com/subscribe

H3-S1 full 00:00 All right, let's go to the WRD talk line. We'll talk to Greg in Fountain Inn. How you doing, Greg? Hey, good afternoon, Charlie. I got a question, a question slash comment. Maybe your listeners know the answer to. But back in January of this year, my neighbor received a package from Amazon delivery. Right. And that was back in January. Well, about 00:29 Four days ago, she received a letter from an attorney here locally saying that she was being sued by the Amazon driver. The Amazon driver apparently fell in her driveway and got hurt, her hip. Well, it turns out that she was not actually an employee of Amazon, but she was a subcontractor. 01:00 So does that mean that all of us who accept Amazon delivery packages are susceptible to being sued if one of these drivers comes on our property? That's a scary thought. If she was a true Amazon employee, she would be covered under Amazon's workers' contract. But she would imagine that if you were a subcontractor, you would have to have some sort of insurance, right? 01:30 Yeah, you would think, but my elderly neighbor is being sued by this lady. uh And my elderly neighbor didn't know there was an incident. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. So your elderly neighbor, she work? Is she always there? No, she wasn't home supposedly when this happened. uh But she didn't know anything about this. 01:58 until three or four days ago when she got this letter from a local lawyer. Is it a reputable lawyer? 02:07 I don't I can't answer that. don't know. But you know, what does that open us up to? You know, if we get a package from Amazon, you know, we don't know who's delivering it. We assume it's Amazon who has insurance. You would think, you would think that if you were a delivery driver, then 02:34 You take on the burden of responsibility for whatever happens on that property. Was there a huge hole? there a ditch? I don't even know. There wasn't. They just fell. Yes. It was a concrete driveway and a concrete walkway to the porch. ah It was in January. I don't know if it was an ice issue. Yeah, right. It could have been. 03:02 I'm just, I just wanted everybody to be aware that when you get a Amazon delivery, you know, if it's not a true Amazon employee, that means it's a sub. Yeah. And evidently they don't require their subs to carry workman's comp or, know, whatever it is. That's crazy. Now I do see that a lot. I do see some vehicles that just have like an Amazon magnetic sticker on the side of the truck. You know, you get your ones from Amazon, get that, but that's, 03:32 Good grief, Greg. I appreciate you letting us know about that. Let's see if anybody else knows anything about it. I appreciate it, Stay in touch with me. Thank you very much. So if anybody knows anything about that, please let us know. Because if this woman is allowed to be sued, 03:53 Isn't anybody allowed to be sued? I mean, and would not that open up a whole can of worms for scams and fraud going on? Now, but I would think if you go to work and I have seen these cabs, here's the weird thing. I've seen these cabs. Have you guys seen these? It says yellow cab. It literally says on the taxi, yellow cab. And then in letters, it says, 04:22 driver is not an employee of yellow cab. I thought, why are you? All right. Anyway, let's go to Brian in Landrum. Brian, welcome. Good afternoon. How are you? I'm good. What's up? Hey, I was going to tell you, um I don't know the complete legalities behind it, but I didn't put up any no trespassing or any kind of signs like that on my property. Mine just plainly says, enter at your own risk. So when you do that, you're assuming the risk. 04:52 of coming on my property. There's several items that may or may not be on the property that would prevent you from safely arriving or leaving. Gotcha, yeah. You are assuming the risk of coming on my property. Thank you, Chris. I appreciate it, buddy. No, I'm sorry. Thank you. Now, let's see if we're going to Chris. Chr ... 620 Mon, 27 Apr 2026 21:19:00 +0000 e6SETAfKsReGW5eq9GufiMOnbDQxpatl news The Charlie James Show Podcast news H3-S1 The Charlie James Show originates from News/Talk 989 WORD, The Upstate's #1 Talk Station, weekdays 3-7pm. Charlie tackles the topics that matter to the Carolina's. He interviews the movers and shakers while letting listeners sound off on the news of the day. 2024 © 2021 Audacy, Inc. News False https://player.amperwavepodcasting.com?feed-link=https%3A%2F%2Frss.amperwave.net%2Fv2%2

Hans Bourlon ,de meest mysterieuze van de drie Studio 100 founding fathers , is deze week mijn Frietcast-gast. We gaan op zoek naar het geheim achter dertig jaar Studio100 en kijken terug op de mooie en de moeilijke momenten. Hoe maakt hij het verschil? Hoe hou je de zaak fris en creatief?  En...wanneer ga je als ceo met pensioen ? Hans staat niet bekend als het grootste open boek, maar leidt me toch opmerkelijk gastvrij rond in zijn hoofd . Voor wie kijkt op YouTube: Zoek de wasspeld. Gotcha!! Gebruik de code FRIETCAST en je krijgt op je eerste drie bestellingen een korting van 20 euro. Meer info vind je  hier https://bit.ly/4aDBe0F Niets zo belangrijk als het vinden, terugvinden (belonen en bekronen) van een goede frituur. VOLG Frietcast op andere kanalen: Luister via: https://linktr.ee/frietcast (Apple podcast, Spotify, Google, YOUTUBE...) Instagram: www.instagram.com/frietcastIn de podcast Frietcast ontvangt Petra De Pauw (Top 10-ranking, frietliefhebber VI) elke week een boeiende frietvriend aan haar tafel. Gebruik het woord 'friet' in je openingszin en elke Belg begint te praten.Enthousiast, vurig, verlangend en gepassioneerd. Frieten, frituren en frietgewoontes zijn het uitgangspunt, de opwarming en de rode draad van deze smakelijke en ongecompliceerde interviews. Maar het leven zo blijkt is meer dan frieten alleen. Achter de frietliefhebber zit een mens met mooie verhalen, interessante meningen en verrassende dromen. Petra haalt ze voor jou uit het vet, schudt ze op en zorgt voor de juiste saus. Smakelijk!Contact: voor samenwerkingen of boekingen: info@frietcast.be

A half dozen years after his death at beginning of the horrid Covid pandemic, songwriter John Prine is still very much on the minds of the folks in The Flood band room.In fact, every spring since the sad April 2020 day of his passing, John's wonderful songs start popping up among the tunes that fill the weekly rehearsals, like this one, one of our favorites, which Prine wrote a few decades back.As reported earlier, “One Red Rose” is a song that an old band mate, the late Roger Samples, got enamored of as soon as he heard it on John's then-new 1980 Storm Windows album. How the Song Got FloodifiedThe Eighties were a time of change for us. Rog was ending his time with The Flood, the band he helped form nearly a decade earlier. That's because he and his new wife, Tammy, and their young family were moving from their native West Virginia to the green hills of Mount Sterling, Ky., a hundred miles to the west.But before he and the brood hit the trail, Rog taught the rest of the guys the tune and played it for the folks gathered for the last of the Bowen Bashes in September 1981, as heard in the video below:Back then, The Flood never worked out a full arrangement of the song, and honestly the rest of us soon forgot it. Or we thought we did. But then a few years ago, Charlie Bowen woke up from a sound sleep grinning at a dream he had just had in which he thought he heard Roger singing that old song again.Here's brief audio of Charlie relating that very story at a gig a while back:Nowadays we do “One Red Rose” as a little three-minute reunion, both with Roger and with John.More Prine Music?Meanwhile, want to hear more Flood renditions of John Prine songs? Gotcha covered. Not long ago, we released a special John Prine Memorial Show. Click the image below to check it out. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit 1937flood.substack.com

We were never supposed to be a “dog family”, but now I truly can't imagine life without Max.In this episode, I'm sharing how our rescue dog completely changed our home, slowed us down and became one of the biggest blessings in our lives.Sometimes the best things aren't planned, they're the ones that find you when you least expect it.

Michael Shapiro  - Ketubah.com On How the Artist Gets Inspired for the Ketubah: "There would be a discussion of the couple's values, maybe how they met, maybe where they met, and the artist would be listening for things that were important to them, including things between the lines, maybe that they weren't speaking about, but that they got a sense of" Business owners that become business owners because they learned a craft and saw a need are some of the most fascinating people to speak with. Michael Shapiro learned about Ketubahs and took the bold step of starting https://ketubah.com/.  The website connects ketubah artists with Jewish couples soon to be wed. After speaking with Michael, you learn about his keen awareness of what couples want, what artists can offer and combines this to help couples get a beautiful piece for their special day, and beyond. Listen as Michael explains what it takes to make a great ketubah and how he has built his business around helping others. Enjoy! Visit Michael at: https://ketubah.com/ Sponsors: Live Video chat with our customers here with LiveSwitch: https://join.liveswitch.com/gfj3m6hnmguz Calls On Call Extraordinary Answering Service: https://callsoncall.com Some videos have been recorded with Riverside: https://www.riverside.fm/?utm_campaign=campaign_5&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=rewardful&via=james-kademan   Podcast Overview: 00:00 Reviving historical Jewish art forms 04:21 Understanding the Ketubah document 09:03 Ketubah sizing and ceremony use 11:43 Early ketubah art practices 15:12 Blending tech with craftsmanship 16:28 The significance of ketubahs in weddings 22:28 Transition to online services 24:10 Custom calligraphic font for Ketubahs 29:06 Starting the first website 32:02 Early marketing efforts 33:26 Providing custom design options 37:19 Meeting artists in Israel 42:02 Struggling to break even 43:39 Learning to delegate tasks 46:52 Managing through pandemic challenges 50:01 Managing cash flow challenges 53:09 Following your passion and persistence Podcast Transcription: Michael Shapiro [00:00:00]: There are some. It's something that usually the couple, you know, there's been some dream of it for years and years, in some cases since childhood, people have imagined what their wedding day was going to be like. On top of that, add the hopes, dreams and expectations of parents, other family members. So it can be a very stressful thing. So I'm very proud of the fact that at least with the purchase of the ketubah, thanks to my team's expertise, empathy and real human customer service, the ketubah is one thing that you can just relax. It's not something you're going to have to worry about. We're there to hold your hand every step of the way and make sure that everything is absolutely right. James Kademan [00:00:40]: You have found authentic Business Adventures, the business program that brings you the struggle stories and triumphant successes of business owners across the land. Downloadable audio episodes can be found in the podcast link Fun to draw in customers.com we are locally underwritten by the bank of Sun Prairie calls on call, Extraordinary answering service, both business book as well as live switch. And today we're welcoming, preparing to learn from Michael Shapiro of ketubah.com and I gotta say, Michael, I'm excited because we're talking about what looks to be some art that. It's funny, I had no idea stuff like this existed. So let's start with the foundation. What do you do? Michael Shapiro [00:01:18]: Absolutely. So ketubah.com sells ketubahs. What is a ketubah? The ketubah at its core is the Jewish marriage contract. The traditional text of it goes back more than 2,000 years. And there is a tradition which is only a thousand years old, if you will, of making this document into something beautifully written and beautifully decorated. James Kademan [00:01:43]: Is this so thorough? Thousands of years who or thousand years who, I guess. Tell me how that has translated over the course of modern times. Is it essentially the same that it was forever ago? Michael Shapiro [00:01:57]: Very, very interesting. And, and you know, I, I actually just, just published a book that looks into the history of this art form and then brings it up to date because there was a very interesting ebb and flow, which is it all started that the tradition of decorating these started in the land of Israel and in Egypt about a thousand years ago. It then moved through Europe all the way to Spain. And then after the Spanish Inquisition and the expulsion of the Jews from Spain, it moved all throughout the Mediterranean into the Middle East. Then over time, with the invention of the printing press and the application of the printing press to making inexpensive versions of this, the art form started to die out. From sort of the late 1800s onwards. Then in North America, starting in the early 1970s, some Jewish artists in the United States and in Canada started to bring the art form back to life. And that's what the book is about. Michael Shapiro [00:02:55]: My book is called Ketubah Renaissance and it's about the modern revival of this ancient art form in a North American context. And that really is what made my business possible. James Kademan [00:03:07]: That is incredible. It's so funny something that I would consider this to be pretty major that I must be just living under a rock because I had never heard of these until connecting with you. Michael Shapiro [00:03:18]: Don't feel too badly. I actually, until 1995, I wasn't aware of this tradition either. So my parents and grandparents just had a simple Ketubah, a simple marriage document that was given to them by the rabbi just on a piece of paper filed away. So that was, you know, that was from the period time when this tradition of the beautifully decorated one had died out. So it was only in 1995, when I was studying in Jerusalem, networking with Judaica artists with an idea to open a shop when I came back to came back home to Canada that I met my first Ketubah artist. So don't feel too bad because I didn't know about this tradition either until, well, 30 years ago. And then I started the company. James Kademan [00:04:01]: Right on. That is awesome. So tell me about the contract itself right before we dive into the art, which is probably more fun. Part, tell me about the contract. Is this just a typical copy paste from every other marriage out there or is there some type of a conversation that happens between the parties, the husband, wife, as to what's going to be included there? Michael Shapiro [00:04:21]: So yes and yes. So the handed down text has changed very little up until this period of the Ketubah revival. And it was a revolutionary text for its time. Imagine in biblical times a woman on her own, either because her husband died or because they became divorced. And divorce is allowed in Judaism, not encouraged, but it is allowed in Judaism. Women and her children on their own could be in serious financial straits. So this was a document that basically was a little bit like, if you will, a prenup slash insurance life insurance policy, which is that if she ended up on her own, she would have financial sum that would be available to her so that she and her children would be okay. That very legal text changed very little up until, as I said, the early 1970s. Michael Shapiro [00:05:17]: Around the time, and this was one of the contributing factors that opened up the, the revival of the art form, there started to be A proliferation of texts, and these included texts that went outside of the religious legal framework that the original text had come down. By that time, not all Jews were practicing sort of Orthodox Judaism. Their reform there was conservative and a whole range of texts that were more like what you're mentioning in your question. Many of them now are more like love documents, commitments of shared value, rather than a legalistic sort of a document. James Kademan [00:05:54]: Gotcha. You know, it's interesting because I'm thinking that the. The men are essentially assigned to support the women. So if the guy goes away for whatever reason, divorce, death, whatever woman is taken care of, does it also. I mean, we're in a time now where that could be flipped, where the woman is the one making all the money. So does that go both ways? Michael Shapiro [00:06:12]: You know what? That's a really interesting question. The traditional text, as far as I know, does not take that into account. And the more I would say contemporary texts, they don't get into the financial end of it at all. So I guess in that circumstance, it would really be up to the state laws in terms when a couple divorces to make sure that they're treating each other fairly versus the religious document requiring that. James Kademan [00:06:43]: Right on. And then last question, in regards to the contract itself, is this a legally binding document? So if some. A divorce happens, the spouse can say, hey, or the ex spouse can say, hey, this is. You owe me, according to this. Michael Shapiro [00:06:58]: Well, it's. So it's binding within a Jewish rabbinical court, if you will. It is. There have been some attempts to bring the ketubah to the so sort of, you know, courts of the state, so to speak. I'm not an expert in that field. I don't know how successful they have been. So I guess the answer is kind of yes and kind of no. James Kademan [00:07:20]: All right, fair enough. Let's get into the fun stuff. Tell me about the art side of these. Michael Shapiro [00:07:25]: Okay, so as I mentioned, the art form, it, you know, goes back about a thousand years. It's a very rich art form. And one of the things that I find fascinating is the.

I saw a reel on my feed from this guy that was basically bullying GPT in real time and I had a lot of thoughts about that and the specific THINGS he was trying to humiliate it for—so telling. I made my own reel about it on IG as well, but I wanted to share this here too for those who aren't on there. 

Inside EuroSIMA, épisode 27 : Emmanuel Loheac, fondateur de PULLIN, admet totalement que l'idée de ce caleçon qui a révolutionné le marché il y a plus de 25 ans lui est venue sans qu'il s'y attende. De l'audace, une vision, un relationnel aiguisé et une bonne maîtrise des chiffres ont fait le reste. Au micro, cet ancien prof de maths à domicile raconte l'intérêt de la communauté et des riders en vue du moment pour le produit au début des années 2000, puis la rapide ascension de PULLIN, dans les magasins core d'abord, puis dans un réseau de distribution élargi. Un succès qui n'a alors pas échappé au groupe Quiksilver. Lorsque ce fan d'action sports, biberonné aux magazines et aux vidéos de surf, skate ou snowboard, s'est vu proposer de reprendre les rênes de la marque Gotcha en Europe, il n'a pas hésité une seconde. Son plan : redonner ses lettres de noblesse à la marque en reprenant les codes de son aînée MCD (More Core Division). Quitte à secouer son monde. Le fameuse campagne « Surf Is Dead » fera son petit effet. Tout comme la direction générale donnée alors à Gotcha, dont l'ambition était de devenir un carrefour des mondes du surf et de la haute couture. L'aventure au sein de Quiksilver se poursuivra du côté de DC Shoes, dont il prendra également la direction Europe. Des divergences stratégiques l'amèneront à quitter le groupe pour s'impliquer de nouveau à 100% dans PULLIN, qu'il n'avait de toute façon jamais vraiment lâché pendant tout ce temps. Fort de ces nouvelles expériences, et plus que jamais convaincu de son produit, Emmanuel développera le potentiel de la marque. C'est l'ère de l'accélération, de l'ouverture de magasins dans les Alpes ou aux US, des premières collaborations internationales comme avec DC Comics ou Starwars. Puis le ralentissement soudain, la perte de chiffre d'affaires, la restructuration. Le second souffle arrivera grâce notamment à une rencontre décisive qui conduira le chef d'entreprise à revoir son modèle, et à développer une gamme complète de vêtements. Des changements qui, associés à une identité rebâtie et à une présence internationale premium et sélective, relanceront la marque Made In France. Pour Inside EuroSIMA, Emmanuel Loheac raconte l'intense aventure entrepreunariale de PULLIN sans détours ni langue de bois. Pas son genre. Un épisode inspirant, riche en anecdotes et en enseignements. Bonne écoute. Production éditoriale : EUROSIMA Animation : Romain Ferrand / Rémi Chaussemiche
 Réalisation technique : Fred de Bailliencourt
 Photos : Guillaume Arrieta Suivez Inside EuroSIMA sur Instagram, Facebook et Linkedin. Retrouvez nos podcasts sur Insideurosima.com et sur Spotify, Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud et Deezer. Merci à Olatu Leku de nous avoir accueillis dans leurs locaux d'Anglet pour cet enregistrement. /// English /// Behind the Pull In story, as told by Emmanuel Loheac Emmanuel Loheac, founder of PULLIN, is the guest of this new episode of Inside EuroSIMA. 

The French entrepreneur explained how a spontaneous idea turned into a game-changing brand over 25 years ago. From early success in core shops to rapid growth, he reflects on community, product innovation and the evolution of the action sports market. He also looks back on his journey within Quiksilver, his role in relaunching Gotcha with bold moves like the “Surf Is Dead” campaign, and his time leading DC Shoes in Europe. Back at the helm of PULLIN, Emmanuel discusses the brand's expansion, challenges, and reinvention — from global collaborations to a renewed, more premium positioning. An honest and inspiring conversation, full of insights and key learnings. Enjoy the ride.

April Fool's Day, Hometrees! We said 110 weeks between recordings, we ACTUALLY meant closer to 204. GOTCHA! Now that you feel properly tricked, here's a Goodie Bag to whet your appetite for new content. Enjoy it while you can, who knows if it'll be 300 weeks till we record again?

We explore the deep layers of societal upheaval, the potential for collective mental shifts, and the hidden technological advancements shaping our reality. The Shifting Collective Psyche and Hidden Technologies - Episode Summary This conversation dives into geopolitics, covert military tech, and the changing psyche of humanity in uncertain times. Main Topics Covered: The current global energy and resource crisis, including fuel rationing and inflation impacts in Canada and Australia The collective psychic pole shift: societal consciousness, authority breakdown, and the role of inner work Hidden military and extraterrestrial technology: rods of God, directed energy weapons, and classified space programs The influence of government narratives, social engineering, and the normalization of systemic issues like euthanasia and mental health control Disappearance cases, UAP phenomena, and upcoming disclosure theories The deep state's experimental mind control, MKUltra, and mind technology breakthroughs The geopolitical and technological implications of recent vaccine nanoparticle discoveries In this episode: The potential silver lining of the war disrupting climate change narratives How societal trust has eroded and what the psychological shift signifies for collective transformation The mysterious phenomena of meteors, UAPs, and advanced space weapons like the rods of God Critical analysis of systemic health failures and the agenda behind systemic depopulation tools The hidden links between military experiments, mind control, and possible extraterrestrial or dimensional influences   Timestamps: 00:00 - Introduction: Societal unrest and the growing weirdness 02:36 - Society approaching a critical event horizon in Canada 07:45 - Collective psychic pole shift and societal awakening 11:21 - Ancient myths and natural disasters as psyche reflections 13:45 - Disinformation, government narratives, and systemic collapse 20:00 - The probable implications of the rods of God and space weapons 29:56 - Missing scientists and mysterious disappearances 36:09 - UFO phenomena, high-speed objects, and possible covert military tech 45:00 - Disinformation campaigns and future disclosure 58:13 - Space force, extraterrestrial alliances, and covert projects 64:00 - Deep dive into MKUltra, mind control, and classified experiments 83:26 - The true extent of military and extraterrestrial technology 101:21 - The ongoing cover-up, data obfuscation, and the role of social engineering 112:41 - Closing remarks: Supporting the show and upcoming events   To gain access to the second half of show and our Plus feed for audio and podcast please clink the link http://www.grimericaoutlawed.ca/support.   For second half of video (when applicable and audio) go to our Substack and Subscribe. https://grimericaoutlawed.substack.com/ or to our Locals  https://grimericaoutlawed.locals.com/ or Rokfin www.Rokfin.com/Grimerica Patreon https://www.patreon.com/grimericaoutlawed   Support the show directly: https://open.spotify.com/show/2punSyd9Cw76ZtvHxMKenI?si=ImKxfMHgQZ-oshl499O4dQ&nd=1&dlsi=4c25fa9c78674de3 Watch or Listen on Spotify https://grimericacbd.com/ CBD / THC Tinctures and Gummies https://grimerica.ca/support-2/ Our Adultbrain Audiobook Podcast and Website: www.adultbrain.ca Our Audiobook Youtube Channel:  https://www.youtube.com/@adultbrainaudiobookpublishing/videos Check out our next trip/conference/meetup - Contact at the Cabin www.contactatthecabin.com Other affiliated shows: www.grimerica.ca The OG Grimerica Show Join the chat / hangout with a bunch of fellow Grimericans  Https://t.me.grimerica grimerica.ca/chats   Discord Chats Darren's book www.acanadianshame.ca Eh-List Podcast and site: https://eh-list.ca/ Eh-List YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheEh-List www.Rokfin.com/Grimerica Our channel on free speech Rokfin Leave a review on iTunes and/or Stitcher: https://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast/grimerica-outlawed http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/grimerica-outlawed Sign up for our newsletter http://www.grimerica.ca/news SPAM Graham = and send him your synchronicities, feedback, strange experiences and psychedelic trip reports!! graham@grimerica.com InstaGRAM https://www.instagram.com/the_grimerica_show_podcast/  Purchase swag, with partial proceeds donated to the show www.grimerica.ca/swag Send us a postcard or letter http://www.grimerica.ca/contact/ ART - Napolean Duheme's site http://www.lostbreadcomic.com/  MUSIC Tru Northperception, Felix's Site sirfelix.bandcamp.com    Links to the stuff we chatted about: https://x.com/RedPandaKoala/status/2037940707609157872?s=20 https://x.com/KennyCarmody/status/2037593267823350240?s=20 https://x.com/nic_moneypenny/status/2037590869105131659?s=20 https://x.com/Jordan_Sather_/status/2037665830889201955?s=20 https://x.com/battleofever/status/2037574881198350676?s=20 https://x.com/ShaneFrakes/status/2036395191330877543?s=20

Eddie Speed  - Note School On Timing the Market: "What's the best time to be in the note business? I said, there's two things. Either it's inflationary times or disruptive times. Right now we have both." It is always best to have an attorney before you need one, especially in business. Often, to make a deal happen, you need financing.  In real estate especially.  But often the typical bank cannot offer financing for a home to an entrepreneur.  We just don't check the W2 box like the banks want to see.  So where can you get financing for a home, if you are an entrepreneur? From another angle, you want to invest in something that has some great returns, but being a landlord isn't really your idea of fun.  What is another real estate investing option that can help you make money in your sleep? Eddie Speed has started the Note School.  A school that teaches how to invest and offer notes to people that need financing outside of traditional banks. Eddie shares insights from his decades of experience teaching people how to "be the bank, a strategy that has helped countless real estate investors convert their rental properties into seller-financed opportunities. As rental profits dwindle and banks tighten their lending standards, Eddie explains how seller financing can transform a landlord's cash flow and serve an underserved market of aspiring homeowners. From practical math to tax strategies, and a behind-the-scenes look at the NoteSchool training process, Listen as Eddie explains innovative ways to thrive in disruptive, inflationary times. Whether you're a seasoned investor, a curious landlord, or an entrepreneur seeking new revenue streams, Eddie's expertise will open your eyes to possibilities beyond conventional real estate. Enjoy! Visit Eddie at: https://noteschool.com/DrawIn Sponsors: Live Video chat with our customers here with LiveSwitch: https://join.liveswitch.com/gfj3m6hnmguz Calls On Call Extraordinary Answering Service: https://callsoncall.com Some videos have been recorded with Riverside: https://www.riverside.fm/?utm_campaign=campaign_5&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=rewardful&via=james-kademan   Podcast Overview: 00:00 Learning to become the bank 04:18 Discussing rental properties as businesses 07:22 Helping sellers with financing 12:41 Rental income and market comparison 13:35 Tax tips for installment sales 19:13 Training successful yet overthinking students 22:05 Starting in the business 25:22 Finding a niche in real estate 27:43 Challenges of property management 32:12 Challenges with traditional mortgage lending 35:16 Frustration with appliance durability 40:36 Comparing 30-year vs 50-year loans 44:25 Finding reliable, hardworking realtors 47:50 Finding local property services 50:19 Getting started with online basics 54:43 Funding notes and marketplace strategy Podcast Transcription: Eddie Speed [00:00:00]: Think and think in terms of the easiest way. People say, people say, give me a reference of seller financing that everybody can relate to the car industry. You, you buy, buy a car, maybe it's a used car or you are, you know, whoever your secretary buys, whatever that is. Right. Somebody buys a car and the car dealership carries the financing. They sell or finance the car. Does that make sense? James Kademan [00:00:26]: It does. Eddie Speed [00:00:26]: Instead of seller financing a car, you sell or finance a property. So you're not renting it anymore. You're, you're transferring the deed to the new guy, but you're saying, wait a minute, I'm going to carry, I'm going to be your bank and I'm going to carry long term financing. James Kademan [00:00:47]: You have found Authentic Business Adventures, the business program that brings you the struggle stories and triumphant successes of business owners across the land. Downloadable audio episodes can be found in the podcast link found@drawincustomers.com we are locally underwritten by the bank of Sun Prairie Calls On Call Extraordinary answering Service, the Bold business Book as well as Live Switch. Today we're welcoming Slash, preparing to learn from Eddie Speed of the note school. So Eddie, how is it going today? Eddie Speed [00:01:15]: I'm great, how are you? James Kademan [00:01:17]: I am excited. We're talking about real estate notes and I gotta admit, I don't know much about that at all. So I'm excited to learn from you. So let's start with the basic foundation. What is the note school? Eddie Speed [00:01:31]: Well, note school teaches people how to be the bank. There's basically two ways you could be the bank. You might have a rental property that's far more profitable for you to finance the rent property than continuing to pay rent and taxes and insurance and the plumber and the all that. Right. And, or you may say, no, I don't have a rent house, Eddie. I just, I like the idea of being a bank. How would I find a note? And so we have run a school for 25 years showing people how to go be the bank. James Kademan [00:02:09]: So help us with a foundation here. A real estate note. Is that essentially the same as the deed or what is that? Eddie Speed [00:02:15]: No, is what we all sign when we go to the title company and buy a house and get financing. James Kademan [00:02:22]: Gotcha. So it's the loan on the property. Eddie Speed [00:02:25]: You know, you sign a promise to pay to the bank, it has an amount that you owe, it has interest, it has a monthly payment and then you sign another document that says if I don't pay, the bank can foreclose. Usually in some states that's a deed of trust in some states, that's called a mortgage, something kind of like that. James Kademan [00:02:46]: Okay. Eddie Speed [00:02:47]: Yeah. James Kademan [00:02:49]: So if somebody has a property, is this. I guess in this case with the notes is this. You are helping somebody purchase the property. So instead of a bank, they'd be using this person? Eddie Speed [00:03:00]: No, I. No, I am, I am pretty specialized in the business, and so we help people. Seller finance. James Kademan [00:03:12]: Okay. Eddie Speed [00:03:13]: So I deal with a lot of landlords. Main, I don't usually deal with too many mom and pops. Normally the people that I deal with are people that are real estate investors. Some really big, some super small, but normally they're a real estate investor. And so I help them create notes and I buy notes that they've already created. And in the, in the little, narrow little world of seller financing, I bought 50,000 seller finance notes. Wow. James Kademan [00:03:42]: So I feel like that's a lot. Eddie Speed [00:03:44]: It is. And in that little industry, it is. And so we're. We're pretty. We've got a seat at the table in that industry. And so we find a lot of these notes and we spend a lot of energy trying to find them. Right. So we do pretty good at that. Eddie Speed [00:04:00]: And then right now we have a really active program where. And a lot of the podcasts and things I do, people are interviewing me, like, okay, how do I convert my rental to seller financing? Because rentals aren't making near the profit they used to. Inflation messed up the rental model. James Kademan [00:04:18]: It turns out as I, as I interview people that are in the real estate world and I look at the rental property world, I'll reach out to a real estate agent and I'll be like, hey, man, from my point of view, a rental property is a business. You look at what it costs, acquisition costs, and then the money coming in, the revenue, the expenses. I don't see how some of these businesses are making money. Who would buy this? This is a. Not necessarily a failing business, but it's a business that's going to cost you money rather than make you money, unless you're working on speculation and saying, in 30 years down the road, this is going to be worth more. Eddie Speed [00:04:55]: So we help people get paid now versus having to wait for appreciation. James Kademan [00:05:00]: Gotcha. Eddie Speed [00:05:01]: And if you, if you just look like this would be kind of an easy way to think about it. The average rent in the United states is about 1800 bucks. James Kademan [00:05:12]: Okay. Eddie Speed [00:05:13]: Ohio and California and Iowa, and you know what? James Kademan [00:05:19]: In the whole US So you got New York and San Diego, and you Eddie Speed [00:05:21]: also have everywhere in between, right the middle of nowhere. The average single family house rents for about 1800 bucks. Okay, that's not an apartment. That's not. That's not a duplex. That's it. That's a single family standalone house. The average payment that a brand new customer pays their mortgage payment is 138% of rent. Eddie Speed [00:05:49]: Okay, so that tells me the banks are making. Getting a bigger payment now. That includes taxes and insurance. So you got to saw a little off of that. Right. But Even if it's 110%, 100, 115%, people's mortgage payment is more than rent. But wait a minute. If I'm the landlord, half of my money runs out the door and paying expenses. Eddie Speed [00:06:10]: And if I'm the bank, none of my money runs out the door. So it doesn't, it doesn't take a, you know, a long spreadsheet to look at the math and go, you know, you know what, Eddie? It is more profitable for me to be the bank than a landlord. James Kademan [00:06:27]: Gotcha. So tell me, who is coming to you? Eddie Speed [00:06:35]: In the last two weeks, I've been to the largest two real estate masterminds for house people in the United States. So call it top, you know, 800 top thousand house buyers. A good percentage of them are in. Are one of those groups or another couple that I'm involved in. They have. I sit down with a guy on Friday who's a fractional CFO for other real estate investors.

The Rush Hour with Maroon Gus Worland, Millie and Hindy chat about the Gotcha 4 Life Cup between Roosters and Sea Eagles, Hindy delivers a STUNNING Hollywood Goss, and we take your calls on when you wet yourself.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this episode, Gary Jenkins, retired intelligence detective, sits down with veteran true crime authors Frank Gerardot and Burl Barer to examine their book Where Murder Lies, a case that intersects Russian organized crime, Italian mob connections, and a troubling claim of wrongful conviction. At the center of the story is Jimmy Kitlas, a young man who struggled with learning disabilities and instability after aging out of a rehabilitation facility in Los Angeles. Facing homelessness and limited options, he gravitated toward individuals connected to the Russian mob, seeking protection and belonging. Instead, he was drawn into criminal schemes—including check fraud and drug trafficking—engineered by experienced mob figures who exploited his vulnerabilities. Frank and Burl provide historical context on the rise of Russian organized crime in the United States, particularly in neighborhoods like Brighton Beach. Unlike the rigid hierarchy of traditional Mafia families, these groups often operated through looser networks, engaging in lucrative scams such as gas tax fraud alongside Italian crime figures. The authors explain how these alliances blurred lines between ethnic crime groups and created new power structures within the American underworld. The discussion then shifts to the murder that reshaped Jimmy's life. What began as manipulation and grooming evolved into betrayal, jealousy, and ultimately violence. The authors detail how Jimmy's arrest followed a carefully orchestrated narrative that shifted blame onto him while shielding more powerful figures. Through examination of court records and transcripts, Gerardot and Barer argue that investigative failures and prosecutorial decisions compounded the injustice. 0:02 Introduction and Guests 0:47 Wrongful Conviction Discussion 4:26 Kelly Lee’s Influence 6:33 Russian Mob Background 12:28 Jimmy Kitlas’ Journey 18:47 Investigative Challenges 22:58 The Murder Plot 26:45 Russian Mob Operations 28:29 Geographic Control in LA 31:29 Trust and Collaboration 35:03 Daniel Patterson’s Role 37:10 Conclusion and Book Promotions Hit me up on Venmo for a cup of coffee or a shot and a beer @ganglandwire Click here to “buy me a cup of coffee” Subscribe to the website for weekly notifications about updates and other Mob information. To go to the store or make a donation or rent Ballot Theft: Burglary, Murder, Coverup, click here To rent ‘Brothers against Brothers’ or ‘Gangland Wire,’ the documentaries click here.  To purchase one of my books, click here. [0:00] Hey, all you wiretappers, good to be back here in the studio of Gangland Wire. This is Gary Jenkins, retired Kansas City Police Intelligence Unit detective, and I have two guests today. Frank Girdo. Is that correct, Frank? Girdo? That’s pretty good. Gerardot. I’ll take it. Gerardot. Gerardot. Just don’t pronounce a T at the end, right? Yes, sir. [0:24] And Burl Barer. Is it Barer, Burl? Yep, that’s close enough for government work. Joe’s enough for government work. That’s the story of my life, as everybody knows. I like to get it close. And we never let the real facts get in the way of a good story either. So let’s just get going here. We like to tell stories on this channel. That’s what my guys like is stories. [0:44] Stories about the Russian mob and maybe a little bit about the Italian mob. And we also got a story about a wrongful conviction, which is a kind of a hot topic right now. We’re seeing a lot of different things in these true crime shows about wrongful convictions. And there’s been, I think a lot of them have been uncovered. In the last few years because people started paying attention to that a little more than they used to. When I was a policeman, they didn’t pay any attention. Never heard of a wrongful conviction. I really congratulate you investigators and authors and true crime diggers out there that see these things and then go take a look at them because they need to be taken and given a look at. So Burl Baer is an Edgar winning author and two-time Anthony Ward nominee. He’s got a lot of experience in reporting. I see you’ve been in the Hollywood Reporter, even the London Sunday Telegraph, New York Times, USA Today. [1:38] You’ve got, I believe you’ve got some other, what else do you do, Burrell? I watch a lot of TV, watch a lot of movies. What kind of shows have you been on? You’ve done other investigations here. Yeah. I did almost, Frank and I have done most of those shows. Deadly Women, Deadly Sins, Behind Mansion Walls, you know, all. [1:57] Do you name them and claim them? We’ve probably been on them. All right. And Frank Gerardot, you’re a journalist, radio host. You’ve authored several true crime nonfiction books, co-author with Burl on A Taste for Murder, Betrayal in Blue. And you did one with somebody else named Byrne. Oh, that was about John Orr. And I read that book. Actually, I read that book, that John Orr. That was a hell of a story, man. That was a hell of a story. Several years ago. So that’s a, it’s a crazy thing. And that, that, that book really tells the story of John Orr through his daughter’s perspective. Ah, okay. And, and I don’t remember which one I read. I read one. I listened to a podcast about the whole thing all the way through guys. That was the LA County was an LA County fireman, fire investigator who was sat in his own fire all up and down in California. Oh yeah. He would go up North. He was in Southern California. He would go up north to a fire conference and he’d set fires on the way back. It was crazy, craziest story I ever read. And after he got arrested, the number of arson fires in California declined by 70%. I’ll be darned. I’ll be darned. He set brush fires, just all kinds of fires. It was crazy. Name of that book is Burn, Guys, if you’re interested in that by Frank Cardo. That’s the French pronunciation. Yes, sir. Yes. [3:18] So these two guys, they have their publicist, God Hold Me, and they introduced me to this book, Where Murder Lies. It is a fascinating look, and they did a real great examination of the Russian mob, a little connection to the Italian mob in New York City as part of this investigation into really a wrongful conviction case, a wrongful conviction of a kid who was, I guess we don’t use the word retarded anymore. He was mentally disabled and retarded in some manner. I’m not sure exactly how to describe that anymore. How would you guys describe him? So, yeah, I think he’s differently abled. We’ll say that. He’s actually a pretty smart guy. He speaks a lot of languages. He read this book in a night. [4:01] He just, I think more of his problem is that he’s maybe learning. He had learning difficulties. And as you’ll see when we get into the book here, he had a lot of physical and emotional trauma growing up. Okay. Jimmy Kittlis was his name. Yes. And a woman named… Kelly Lee. [4:22] A woman named Kelly Lee got you guys interested in this story. It’s a wrongful conviction story that strays into this mob ties. Who was she? Now, who was Kelly Lee? [4:32] I could tell you about Kelly Lee. She was one of the first people I met when I came to Los Angeles in November of 2003. Three, she was doing intake at Teshuvah, which is a Jewish community kind of rehab for people with all-matter recovery issues. I’d just been through a bad patch, et cetera. He needed some help. She did my intake. Wound up becoming friends with her and her husband. And a few years later, we’re having dinner together. She says, oh, Pearl, you’re a true crime writer. I go, duh, yeah. And she pulls out a handful of court transcripts that are difficult to get nowadays. Thank you. Says, take a look at this. She was, at the time this murder took place, what I would term an unlicensed pharmaceutical supplier on the streets of West Hollywood. Correctly. Gotcha. Marijuana, primarily. Yeah. And she had six arrests for selling pot, which now would probably get her a community service award here. Yeah. Times were different. And when Jimmy Kittlis ages out of the facilities or whatever down in Lake Elsinore. When he turns 18, they just put him on a bus with a ticket to West Hollywood. Goodbye. [5:49] And he gets off. He meets her. She’s a very compassionate person. She can see that this kid is really childlike. Babe in the woods or babe on the street, he’s really going to get taken advantage of. She takes him under her wing like a surrogate mom and tries to tell him and teach him how to survive on the street. And then she said, he’s like a child. Could be really eager to please, super polite, has the intentions man of a goldfish. Oh, look, there’s a castle. Oh, look, there’s a castle. It’d be very easily used. [6:28] It had a lot of sexual energy. He needed a girlfriend. He got one and got her pregnant. And she really tried to help these kids, But she couldn’t be with him 24-7 And she certainly raised her eyebrows When she saw who was spending a lot of time With this couple And that was a well-known fellow In the Russian mob, Yeah, I read that So let’s talk a little bit about the Russian mob So you guys really went in the background When they first came to Brighton Beach Tell the guys a little bit about that background. [7:02] Yeah, sure. As the Soviet Union began to crumble, a lot of Russian Jews found their way to New York, and they found their way to Brighton Beach. And they set up a sort of black market trading system among themselves and within the community with all the sort of standard features of mafia, right? Protection, extortion, sometimes murder, certainly dealing in black market stuff like drugs. [7:32] Clubs, prostitution, just about every kind of crime you can think of happening in a neighborhood that’s protected by a mafia. These guys were controlling in this neighborhood of Brooklyn called Brighton Beach. What I thought was interesting, and readers will probably find interesting too, is that there’s not a real setup like a commission or families. The Russian mob really operates more like Ronin. There’s guys that just independent operators and build up their business based on their relationships and how many people they can pull into a scheme. What we also found is that these guys were pretty adaptable and they picked up on a scam that the Lucchesis and the Gambinos were operating. And that was to get gas, steal it, take it from places where it wasn’t really tracked and put it into gas stations, sell it for maybe a penny less than the guy across the street, but capture the tax, the federal excise tax money and pocket it. And this was a multi-million dollar scheme And to the fine-tuning of it The Russian mob, Worked with guys like Michael Francesi To really extract as much as they could from it One of the guys in our book. [9:00] Meyer Ida, who was in Brighton Beach and operating there, came to Los Angeles in the mid-90s and started up the gas tax scheme. But the feds were pretty wise to it at that point, and he got caught up in the sting. Interesting. If I remember right, some of them were, they couldn’t steal it, but they would set up companies, shell companies, and then buy gas and then sell it a little bit cheaper. And it was up to them to collect the tax and then pay the state. And they do this for a certain period of time. And then they just declare file bankruptcy or just walk away from that shell company and create another little LLC and do the same thing. So just like run after you just couldn’t catch up. You bust out of one and move on to the next one. And that’s what they and you could they change the laws for gasoline purchase changed as a result because you could just go buy it. You can make up a company today, buy it tomorrow, sell it on Thursday, collect the tax on Friday, and bail out on Saturday and start all over again next week. Wow. Wow. There’s a scam. There’s a mob that’s willing to take advantage of a loophole like that. It’s crazy. So they moved out to LA. What other kind of scams? Go ahead. Go ahead, Brett. I was going to say that the Russians were so good at this type of scam, far ahead mentally of the American Mafia. [10:29] They were the best people they ever worked with. They were geniuses. They knew how to do this unlike any other. And in fact, the gas tax scam, the biggest moneymaker for the Russian mob and eventually the American mafia than any other form of income, billions of dollars. Interesting also is that if the former Soviet Union, should probably know, they factor in the Russian mob in their economy. I believe the last figure was 63% of the GNP of Russia was crime. They actually give a figure for it. Here we go. In America, this percentage of our federal income is from crime, but in Russia, they do. 63%. I don’t know what it is in America, But we talked to this Stan, who’s never going to pronounce his last name. And he had been in the Russian mob ever since he was a kid, raised in it. [11:32] And so that’s just what we were brought up with. We didn’t think there was anything unusual. If you were a girl, you were going to be a sex worker. They were respectable. If you were a guy, you were going to do this. And it was never as bad or as evil as the Americans said it was. It was always, the Russians are coming, the Russians are coming. coming. It’s so scary. I noticed you had a chapter titled Glassnose Gangsters. [12:00] I thought that was a pretty tricky title. I also read once that in Russia, they were so used to dealing with corrupt officials and running different scams that were in and around governmental agencies, like the tax collecting thing. They were so used to that, that they really refined this to a fine point than Americans could, because we’re not so used to dealing with corrupt officials. We have some, but not like Russia. Russia was an art in Russia. [12:28] Yeah, and they just took the template and brought it right over here and started earning pretty quickly. So now, how does Jimmy Kittlis, he’s a street kid. He’s one of these, what I call throwaway kids. We have this group of kids on the streets that are 18, 19, 20, use drugs. And lots of times these older men who are gay want to pay him for sex or bring him in and take care of him. Was he one of those kids? Did he get into that kind of a lifestyle? [13:02] He’s a homeless kid. He’s a runaway. And the place that he goes to, Hollywood and West Hollywood, is full of people that want to exploit young boys. Yeah. The lifestyle that he got into, though, was I think he recognized that there would be, people there who were stronger than him and smarter than him and want to take advantage of him. And so he sought out ways to hook up with mobsters because he figured that if he was connected, that would protect him from some of the bad stuff that might happen, especially like sexual exploitation. [13:41] When he goes into a homeless shelter, he peripherally knows about Mark. He asks around about Mark, who’s a Russian mobster. And the homeless shelter introduces them and says, oh, hey, yeah, Jimmy here would like to do some work with you. And so he falls into doing work with Mark and let the scamming begin, as they say. Interesting. Yeah. I read the book how he was, he had such a facility to learn language that he learned Russian pretty quick. And he had other languages. Just one of those people that just could start picking that up. Me work like hell, and I can’t have one conversation, but somebody like that, they just pick it up. I understand he picked up Russian pretty quick, too. Very quickly, and to this day, speaks it pretty well. And that got him some cachet. [14:30] But that only goes so far because, Gary, these guys that come in at a low level and aren’t Russian are really just mules. And that’s really what Jimmy was. He was a mule. Mark’s specialty was Czech forgery. and check washing. And he taught Jimmy how to take envelopes and get checks out of them, change who the check was written to or the amount that the check was drawn for, and go to various banks and cash those checks. And Mark was a pro at it. He had equipment to do it. He knew how the scam worked. He knew that you don’t go to the same bank three days in a row. You go to a couple of different banks and that’s how they got by day to day. [15:18] Interesting. Yeah, I worked one of those little scams once, a little group of people that were doing that. They could have a process that can wash some of the ink off of a check and then put and change the amount and those kinds of things. They’d work, they’d go to grocery stores on paydays. People used to take their grocery, their checks to put grocery stores on paydays plus banks. So it’s a pretty good moneymaker that needs little guys like this to go out and cash the checks while the bad guy sits back and provides the checks and takes most of the money. So it’s interesting. Yeah. And that’s exactly what Jimmy was, the little guy that cashed the check. [15:57] I want to interject something here. Now, Mark was, as Jimmy said, he looked like a Russian mobster. He was a Russian mobster. However, what Jimmy didn’t realize is that the whole family, or most of the family, was involved. Mark’s uncle, Meyer ITF, also known as Mike, was a very prominent figure in the Russian mob in Los Angeles. The fans were very aware of him. He was, shall we say, a big shot. He was the godfather of Plumber Park here. He was the guy. Jimmy didn’t know that. He just knew about Mark. As you know in the book, sooner or later it becomes a situation involving a fortune in gold and smuggled MDMA that puts Meyer in federal custody. Meyer wants out of federal custody. Mark not only is a Russian mobster doing bank fraud, he’s also an FBI informant and a DEA informant and an informant of the Pasadena Police Department. [17:07] Frank says, according to the menu at a Chinese restaurant, going from column A to column B, how do I get my uncle out of prison? Solve a murder. Oh, what’s the easiest way to solve a murder? Plan it. Set it up. Blame it on someone, like maybe Jimmy. Final result, I’ll tell you, Meyer got out of prison. Jimmy went to prison. [17:36] Wow, that’s a hell of a story. Frank can give me more insight on that process, but that’s the short form on how this all winds up fitting together. Yeah, and you guys, when you went back, you had to go back. Could you be able to pull she had transcripts from the court so you could find out who testified were able to get any more information police department’s notorious for not allowing reports to go out i can’t even get them out of my own but and i bet it was really bad on that how did how’d you go about that how’d you start digging into this and get your first clues that you can tell you about trying to talk to the items about this yeah yeah so it’s like an onion i i look at it like that and we had early on kelly shared with us some of the trial transcripts so that’s pretty good yeah there’s a lot of information in there and it and within the trial transcripts there’s names and and dates and so we started picking at it and early on you know we couldn’t get cooperation from any of [18:40] the mobsters yeah we didn’t get cooperation from the fbi or the dea We were able to do some digging. [18:48] And I think the digging led to a congressional hearing on the Russian mob back in the early 90s. And Meyer Itev’s name pops up in that hearing. So from there, I started digging through federal court files using PACER and came across all kinds of court documents involving Mike and then his nephew for various scams they were involved in. [19:21] And then taking those court documents and continuing to research and talk to people and figure it out, we were able to lay it all out. It took us six years to do this, but lay out a narrative of who’s Mike, who’s Mark, who are they involved with, and what kind of things were they operating when Jimmy got involved. And where was everybody when this murder took place? And what we found out was that Mike was in federal custody and had been charged with involvement in a scheme to steal gold from a place in Massachusetts. And how the scheme worked is Mike and his buddy posed as government scientists who were building a nuclear reactor facility in a run-down apartment in Pasadena, California. And they were able to put in purchase orders for the gold and have it delivered to this apartment. And only when one of them misspelled sergeant on the P.O. And sent a fake check did the government catch on and arrest him. [20:37] When they brought him in and charged him with this, the first thing that these guys wanted to do was figure out how they could get out of it. They hooked up with a guy in Hollywood who was involved in a scheme. Yeah. To dissuade a reporter from writing about the actor Steven Seagal. And this guy, his name is Alex Proctor, went to Meijer and another man in our book, Daniel Patterson, and said, listen, can you help me? I need to knock off this reporter. [21:12] Daniel, as you’ll see from reading our book, is a pretty well-connected guy. He’s done some pretty interesting stuff, but murder was the limit of what he would do for anybody. He began to peel back some of the layers of that onion for authorities in that case. And that led to Meyer being in custody. And that was the catalyst for Mark and his other uncle, Gary, to try to figure out how can we get him out? And they believed that the government would let Meyer out of custody if they could inform on a big enough crime. Big enough crime probably wouldn’t be a burglary or a low-level assault or a battery. It had to be something significant. And then this murder happens. Wow. How did they choose this victim? I don’t know necessarily that they chose him, but this guy lived in the neighborhood where Mark and Jimmy hung out, and they essentially manipulated him into believing he was going to have sex with Jimmy’s girlfriend. And then manipulated Jimmy into thinking that, hey, this guy’s going to have sex with your girlfriend. Aren’t you upset by that? Doesn’t that piss you off? Don’t you think you should be a man and do something about it? Yeah. [22:39] Hormones, jealousy, rage, greed. It’s like there’s everything like comes together in this one moment. And we end up with this guy, Alex, who’s a school teacher, just ends up dying. [22:55] So they got motive and means and opportunity. They can manipulate Jimmy into providing all those for the investigated officers. Yep. Yeah. Wow. And, you know, and what, and what really the thing that really, I think, so there’s this event that happens and there’s a, there’s like part of this, there’s a locked door mystery that investigators encounter. But the other part of it is how after the crime, Jimmy was arrested. [23:27] Manipulated into going to a hotel as a hideout that was arranged for him by Mark and Gary Iteve. And as soon as Jimmy’s in the hotel, they park themselves outside and guide the police to the hideout where they arrest Jimmy and his girlfriend. I think I read that initially, after the school teacher was dead, they got in, was it Pasadena? One of the police departments got an anonymous call giving up the body, where it was, the murder, and the suspect. Only one anonymous call. And then they, and then, oh, my God, this was heinous. Let’s mention that locked door. Let’s mention this locked door. This was heinous, heinous. When the police get to the scene of the crime, and they noticed that the apartment does not show any forced entry. Living room, everything, it’s fine. Get to the bedroom, however. The door had been locked from the inside. Jimmy said when he left, he locked the bedroom door from the inside. This is now after the fact. Someone shows up and tries to get in. They can’t because the door’s locked. They want to get in real fast. And they finally get in, practically ripped the doorknob off to get in. [24:50] At the same time, let’s assume it might be the same person, Mark ITM uses the dead man’s telephone to call his lawyer to say, I want to report a murder that we could use to get my uncle out of prison. [25:07] Using the dead guy’s phone. Then after they arrange that, he cuts the wires and leaves. Also wiping the door, the doorknob clean. His fingerprints are in there because he acknowledges he was in the bedroom earlier when Jimmy put the unconscious, still-breathing fellow on the bed. [25:29] He leaves. Mark left, went out and told the girl. Jimmy killed the guy. But when he left, the guy was alive, breathing on the bed. He says, come down after in a minute. So then he tells the girl, we got to go because we’re going to get in trouble with the cops. What are we going to do? So it was a real mess. So to say, who killed this guy? Jimmy had to take full responsibility because he confessed to protect his girlfriend. Also, he felt bad about putting the guy to headlock and throw the old drunk guy to the ground anyway. But then again, how did Mark make a phone call to his lawyer and the dead man’s phone after all that happened? And after the doors ripped open in the apartment to the bedroom. Did he find the guy already dead? Or did he have to help finish the process? Legally, he was found not guilty. Mark was. Just like OJ was. Because did OJ do it? Did OJ not do it? Did he cover for his son? Whatever. But legally, he was not guilty. Same thing with Mark. Not guilty. Jimmy, guilty. Whether we killed him or not. [26:45] We can’t say. We weren’t there. Crazy. Crazy, isn’t it? [26:52] What other kinds of things was this crime family, this Russian mob family? It’s like a family. I’ve read about these. They’ll have that one strong man, and then you’ll have a group that kind of emanates out from that, but yet they’re not part of some larger group. They stand on their own. And so what else, what other kind of crimes were they involved in? Was this talking about MMDA being smuggled into those that’s a party? Rave kind of clubs yeah they one of the things that they did was make a counterfeit viagra one of the guys had a uh an idea to he bought some viagra and he had a plan to set up pharmacies where he could like order viagra through the pharmacy and like with the gas tax right don’t pay anybody have the viagra and sell it and then one of the other guys said that’s a waste of time I got a pill press. Just all we got to do is get the chemicals or some chemicals and put them together and press a bunch of Viagra pills and then we can sell thousands instead of tens. [27:54] And then the gold scheme, which we mentioned, and the MA, the list goes on and on. And within the community of the Russian diaspora, extortion, loan sharking, gambling, prostitution, all those means of making money were on the table and being used. They were familiar with the casinos here in LA, familiar with the how to operate prostitution rings and advertise the services. Very sophisticated group of guys. [28:29] Did they have a geographic area in which they were kind of like the ruling group? [28:35] So that’s the funny thing about LA. And we talk about this a little bit in the book, that LA’s never really had like a mob family. There’s no five families here. If you go back to the 1940s and 50s, there was a guy named Mickey Cohen, who was a mobster here in LA and with help started the casinos in Vegas. But there’s no turf here In LA, if you’re going to set up an operation You’ve got to find a way to work with some of the other mobs In Los Angeles, the Mexican mafia is very prominent And their operation is run out of the jails That’s where their leadership is in the jail and prison system And the soldiers are on the street And that’s where the drugs and prostitution are distributed at street level, operated from the jails. Guys like Meyer or people operating within those turfs, they got to work with the Mexican mob to make sure that they’re not crossing lines. And we chronicle some of that, especially with the MDMA smuggling in the book. [29:44] Interesting. Wow. Yeah. LA’s not really had that, like you said, that five families each has a geographic territory or even had one family, a guy named Jack Dragna, but it was really, it was open. LA was open city. We had a guy from Kansas City went out there in the 50s and fell in with some people out there. And, of course, from Tony Splatro and that Jimmy Fradiano, Jimmy Fradiano, these people from Chicago had some action going down in L.A., but no one mob family controlled L.A. And it’s spread out that you’ve got these neighborhoods over the place that I just wonder if they’re like a Brighton Beach kind of a place that where a lot of Russians had settled in. That was their neighborhood, at least where they did. They all live in one neighborhood. So, yeah, West Hollywood has a Russian enclave. And then there’s a park there called Plummer Park. That’s a gathering place for Russians in the neighborhood to get together and play chess and talk about what’s going on. I live in a neighborhood that has its own little enclave of Armenian mobsters. And their hangout is a donut shop. Yes, I’ve seen that here I have I was at a Starbucks up by the airport And I see these guys all ganged up together And they look like. [31:03] They’re Italians. They look like down at the social club down in the North End. I was retired by then. So I look at these guys. I call a friend of mine back down the intelligence unit. I say, I see these guys and here’s one of their license plates and it’s some kind of a limo service. And so, yeah, that’s our Albanian gangsters. They all hang out there at that Starbucks and then they go to the airport. They have these different things. They haul drug dealers back and forth. We are on to them. [31:29] That’s great interesting people ask Frank and I how is it that you get guys from the Russian mall or the fact with Betrayal in Blue who was a drug cartel guy or guys from the American mafia how do you get them to cooperate with you when you write these books I would like to stand whose name I can never pronounce with a whole section about the Russian mob, where he talks openly about it. And he says, because they trust us and anybody else, they want their story told truthfully. This is their legacy. They don’t want a bunch of BS about them in a book. If it’s been over seven years, they could talk about it. Unless it’s bank robbery, then it’s 10 years. We always tell them, don’t talk about anything you can be arrested for. Although, we’ll appreciate this because you’re doing this podcast. I was doing one, had this guest on, and all of a sudden he’s just talking about killing somebody. [32:35] I said, you can tell I’m kind of getting upset. Turns to his lawyers, he goes, what’s the statute of limitations on murder? Murder. Oh, my God. There isn’t one. Shut up. I have told guys that. I said, I’ll tell you something, dude. Do not tell me something I can’t live with. You can talk to me, but do not tell me something I can’t live with. You cannot trust me if you tell me something I can’t live with. And that’s the main one right there. Fortunately, they trust, People learned that they could trust Frank and I to be honest with them, direct with them, protect them if they need protection. I don’t know about the protection part. I’m not going to protect any. I’m with Jerry. Don’t tell me anything. Well, that’s what I mean. You tell them, don’t cross this line. That’s protection. Please tell them where the guardrails are. Yeah. It’s an interesting thing that we do. I’ve got some guys here and some guys around the country I’ve dealt with. And they reach out to you and they want to tell their story. I wish I could get more of them to want to tell their story. And they want to tell one thing I get criticized for. And it’ll be somebody that’s on YouTube, obviously in the know, and they’ll tell me how I got something wrong. [33:47] You deal with what you got. You deal with the newspaper articles and old court cases and things like that and try to get it right. But you can’t totally get it right. Of course, you don’t get it right as the way somebody else sees it, too. Everybody has a different take on the right story. I found out long ago, if you only rely on law enforcement, you’re not going to get the whole story. No, you got to go. Well, then you’re doing stenography. That’s what I always said. Yeah. Yeah. But it’s hard to get those people to open up, too. Man, it’s. Yeah. I was a reporter for a long time, so I’ve had some practice at it. And I’ve interviewed guys in prison. I’ve interviewed people who pre-arrest, during arrest, post-arrest. [34:26] And I’ve developed a way to talk to people that makes them comfortable. With Adam Diaz that Burrell mentioned in our book, Betrayal in Blue, this guy is a South American cartel member dealing cocaine in the United States. He went on the record and talked about his life doing that. [34:47] And the same thing in this book with Daniel Patterson. Daniel is quite a colorful character. And I interviewed him over five or six weekends about everything that he was involved in, up to and including the stuff that he did with the ITEVs. [35:04] Now, Daniel Patterson, explain who he was to the Russians. Sure. He’s basically a conduit for the Russians. He’s a guy who knew how to make money more legitimately than they did. He had the pill press. he explained the gold scam how to operate the gold scam how to write po’s how to like add a veneer of legitimacy to their business and and make more money by doing that yeah it’s like the scam emails you get you see the misspelled words they greet you in some archaic way this is a scam this guy could take all that out of it and right i always love it without warning people i want to worm. If the woman on the dating site says, I am so-and-so by name, they’re Nigerian. But if you tell them that, then all the Nigerians will stop telling them, I’ll stop using that. But if it says, I am Sally by name, they’re Nigerian. Even if they say they live in your hometown, they’re Nigerian. Good clue. Good clue. You guys hear that out there? [36:12] Yeah listen closely when you trip to one of these emails or one of these online things and you start talking to them they say my name is sally my name is nigerian hang up, how’s everything in nigerian click yeah. [36:31] Guys, I didn’t expect to get that kind of a great clue for my guys out there, but that’s a good one. I didn’t really realize that one myself. Yeah, I am Sally by name. Here’s your clue. Watch out. I was talking to a guy once, a friend of mine. He was talking about some girl that he met online, of course, through Facebook. And he said, she told me she just thought I looked interesting and sounded interesting from my Facebook. And I said, what’d she do? He said, I think she’s legitimate. I said, what’d she do? She’s an entrepreneur. I said, dude, dude. On. Dude. Model and entrepreneur. Yeah. [37:10] Okay. This has been great. Frank Girardeau and Burl Baer. B-A-R-E-R. Yes. And guys, I’ll have links to these books, all of their books. This book is A Taste for Murder, and they have Actually, this book is Where Murder Lies. Oh, I’m sorry. Okay. Oh, yeah. All right. Let me start. I’ll edit this. Their book is Where Murder Lies. And they also have one called A Taste for Murder, Betrayal in Blue, and Burned. So those are all three great true crime books. And I will have links to them in the show notes, guys. Thanks so much. Merle and Frank, I really appreciate you coming on. It’s really interesting. And Owen, if you buy the book, review the book. Say something nice about it. If you don’t like it, keep your mouth shut. Don’t give me one of those one-star reviews or I’m coming for you. You can’t trust those. [38:08] Thank you, Gary. All right. Thank you. All right. I’ll send, I don’t know, do I have your emails or do I have the publicist’s email? I got somebody’s email. Sometimes I never get your guys’ email. You got Vine, you got Frank, you got them both. All right. I’ll send you a link whenever I get this. It’ll probably be a month or more before I actually get this up. I would stay way ahead. Okay, good. Okay. All right. Talk to you soon. Same thing I can ever do for you here in Kansas City while you get on these stories or something. Hey, I’m in Missouri. I haven’t used to Missouri. I’m in Houston, Missouri. You what? I’m in Houston, Missouri. Oh, are you? Yeah, Texas County, Missouri. Oh, Texas County. Yeah, that’s way down south. That’s down south. I’m in the Ozarks. Yeah. Okay. That’s why I grew the goatee. Okay. All right. All right. Thanks, guys. Bye-bye. Bye.

When we say 'the cloud' what we mean is 'the data centre'. Globally, data centres are projected to consume over 1000 terawatt hours in 2026. What does that mean for energy production, distribution, and consumption? Guest Phil Harris, Cerio President and CEO, joins thinkenergy to shed light on something we all rely on but may not fully understand. From efficiency to sustainability, environmental concerns to Cerio's role improving how data centres manage energy. Listen in for the future of cloud computing.  - Related links  ●       Cerio: https://www.cerio.ai/ ●       Phil Harris on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paharris/  ●       Trevor Freeman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/trevor-freeman-p-eng-8b612114  ●       Hydro Ottawa: https://hydroottawa.com/en     To subscribe using Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thinkenergy/id1465129405 To subscribe using Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7wFz7rdR8Gq3f2WOafjxpl To subscribe on Libsyn: http://thinkenergy.libsyn.com/ --- Subscribe so you don't miss a video: https://www.youtube.com/user/hydroottawalimited Follow along on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hydroottawa Stay in the know on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HydroOttawa Keep up with the posts on X: https://twitter.com/thinkenergypod --- Transcript: Trevor Freeman  00:07 Welcome to think energy, a podcast that dives into the fast, changing world of energy through conversations with industry leaders, innovators and people on the front lines of the energy transition. Join me, Trevor Freeman, as I explore the traditional, unconventional and up and coming facets of the energy industry. If you have any thoughts, feedback or ideas for topics we should cover, please reach out to us at thinkenergy@hydroottawa.com. Hi everyone, and welcome back. Data centres have come up a number of times on this show, and for very good reason, they have become a key underpinning technology for so much of our lives, every time we pull out that phone from our pockets to pull up directions or buy something online or doom, scroll on your social media or new site of choice, every time you use your phone stream a movie, leverage an AI model, whatever you end up using it for, it's funny as I read this list, I'm sure there's like some university student out there who's thinking, man, what is this old man talking about? We don't use our phones for that, whatever the kids are doing these days, whatever we're doing these days with our phones, with our computers, our tablets, et cetera. All of that leverages infrastructure that most of us have never seen and, quite frankly, probably don't really understand we talk about the cloud like it's this amorphous, nebulous thing, but in reality, we're talking about real hardware in a real building that uses real energy, mainly electricity, a lot of water. And this isn't really new, like we've been leveraging centralized data centres for many years now, but what is changing is the scale of the data centres that we're seeing now, and the pace of growth in computing power that we need to do, the things that we want to do, and that our data centres are able to deliver. So just to throw a few numbers at it, the traditional data centre servers that maybe power the early days of on demand online streaming services, for example, they used anywhere from five to 15 kilowatts per rack. But modern server racks that are used to power AI searches, for example, can hit anywhere from 60 to 100 kilowatts per rack. This is great from a power output per rack perspective, but it means massive energy needs, and that is showing up in the size of load requests that we're seeing from new data centres. New data centres today are asking for service connections that are orders of magnitude higher than those built even just five years ago, globally, data centres are projected to consume over 1000 terawatts in 2026 or terawatt hours, sorry, in 2026 and just a quick kind of refresher from high school or wherever you would have learned this, a terawatt is 1000 gigawatts, which is 1000 megawatts. So 1000 terawatt hours, which is roughly equivalent to the annual electricity demand from the country of Japan, an entire country. So given all of this, there are a lot of incentives to find ways to maximize efficiency and reduce some of that energy demand, and that's where my next guest, Phil Harris and his company Cerio come into play. I'll let Phil get into the details of exactly what Cerio does, but essentially, their goal is to reimagine the data centre to maximize sustainability and reduce energy needs. Phil is Cerio's President and CEO, and has been in the networking and data centre industry for over 35 years, including at well known companies like Intel and Cisco. And I'm really excited about this conversation. One to understand, how do we make data centres a little bit more efficient, or maybe a lot more efficient, but also just to really understand, like, what are we talking about when we talk about a data centre? What is actually happening, what is physically inside these buildings, and we'll get into a little bit of that in our conversation. So Phil, welcome to the show.   Phil Harris  04:13 Well, thanks, Trevor. I appreciate it.   Trevor Freeman  04:13 So Phil, obviously we're here today to talk about your work building sustainable data centres, or trying to make data centres a little bit more sustainable. But before we get into that. You know, you've spent your career, you know, decades of your career at different tech giants. Let's call them in telecisco to to mention, you've seen quite a bit of change. No doubt, over your time, has that changed, like, does this industry change linearly? Does it grow fairly steady, or is it kind of big jumps? And are we on the cusp of any major shifts? What can you kind of tell us about the future of this, this sector, data, tech, etc?   Phil Harris  04:48 It's interesting, I think, as companies start, and I was at companies like Cisco, for example, when it was a very small company to when it was very large company. And this should be no surprise for anybody, the bigger the company gets, the harder. It is to change, and they really find that the only way they change is when they absolutely have to, not because they want to, and that's a combination of just inertia and shareholders expectations and a whole bunch of things. So I would say that the bigger the company is, the harder is them, for them to react. And so I think small, nimble companies tend to do much better when there's a lot of transformational technology and development and changes in the overall ecosystem we live in. I think just the second part of your question, you know, I look at the current situation as a point in time where a lot of companies will have to make some significant changes, simply because we're hitting too many walls, technological walls, commercial walls, geopolitical walls, that are really sort of confining what people can do. So I think what's going to about to happen is we're about to see a significant change, and this is not atypical in the industry. If we think about back into the into the start of what we would think of today as computer science around mainframes that were happening in the 60s. You know, for about a decade and a half, two decades, there was a lot of dominance around a particular way of doing things. And then some new innovational technology came along that rapidly changed, that scaled out, and it went from a very dominant set of players to a much larger number of smaller players who could then provide more innovation and more scale and more choice. And I think we're about to see that transition occurring as well.   Trevor Freeman  06:25 So is this, is there sort of like an analogous time, 10 years ago, 20 years ago? Are we on the cusp of, like, the big, the big change that we've seen before? Like, what would you compare this to? You know, in the last 2030, years?   Phil Harris  06:40 Yeah. I mean, I think there's been eras of compute. And if we say, I mean, we can find analogies outside of the compute world, but let's just stay in the compute, computing science world. I gave the mainframe example as one, and then we went to what we call client server, which scaled out rapidly. Telephony. We went from large, big telephone exchanges that started in in the government space, went to very large organizations. Now, basically we've completely scaled out how we make phone calls to use that now 20th century as a terminology. Nobody really makes telephone calls anymore. And we went through this with cloud computing and the Internet, where there was a change in the approach to the way we did things that suddenly gave us a scale out mentality, rather than a scale up mentality. And I think that's what we have to key in on here. Is it that we can take some of you? I was on a panel yesterday where we were talking about scale, and I say, well, to scale or not to scale? That is not the question. It's how do we scale? Do we continue to scale up, which is the current model, or do we start to think about scaling out, which is a more distributed model? So we go from a small number of big things to a large number of smaller things. And typically in computer science, whatever you want to start, storage, compute, memory, telephony, everything we've ever done goes through this arc.   Trevor Freeman  07:59 Yeah, it's it's interesting, and it's, there's obviously my brain's gonna immediately try and find those, those similarities between my world that I live in on the energy side of things. And it's the same question, like, there, there's, there is no path where we're not expanding the amount of energy we need. We're not going to be using more energy. But there are different ways to do that, and there are different paths we can take the business as usual that just grow, grow, grow, decentralized energy production and large scale transmission. Or there's a combination of like, grow those things, but also find alternative methods. More ders more sort of like close to consumer energy sources and storage, et cetera, et cetera. And people that listen to this podcast know I kind of go on ad nauseam about this. So lots of similarities. There another kind of framing or foundational thing that I want to talk through before we really get into the meat of our conversation is helping ground both myself and our listeners, and what exactly we're talking about here. So we, we all use, whether we know it or not, we use, you know, like cloud computing constantly, whether it's in our calls, how we're using the internet, using AI, more, more frequently. Now, what is the physical reality behind that? What's actually happening? What is the term data centre? What is a data centre for our listeners here? What does that look like?   Phil Harris  09:26 Yeah, let's start there. That's a great question. We started recognizing that the amount of power and space required for computers in companies and government in all sorts of different applications was getting larger than we could put in a room, in a closet near maybe where people were using it. We had to sort of create dedicated space, because the power requirements, the cooling requirements, just the noise. You can't hear this, but just in my basement, I have a few different compute systems that my wife continues to tell me is keeping my neighborhood awake. The reality is the environmentals of these things became very difficult. So we created these purpose built locations that had then different requirements in terms of access and facilities and power and cooling and staffing. And so they became a new way of thinking about building compute infrastructure at a building level, not just at the individual computers themselves. So a data is usually a very large room or building, I should say that houses large amounts of compute and storage and other networking equipment. There's a whole range of different technologies that go into a data centre that allows us to process information. That's what a data centre is. To give you some analogies in the US, there's about nearly 6000 data centres, depending on how you measure a data centre. In Canada, we have about 400 in Europe, there's about 750 that we can identify as standalone data centres. You can probably find more places where computers are outside of people's homes, but that's about the ratio we're looking at.   Trevor Freeman  10:59 And we're seeing, I think, and tell me if I'm wrong here, like, all this talk about the AI proliferation, data centre proliferation, we're seeing an expansion of these. Is that we're seeing the size of these data centres expand, or we're seeing just more of them popping up. Like, what does it mean when we say we're seeing, like, data centre growth because of AI, what does that mean?   Phil Harris  11:24 Well, it's fascinating, because now our worlds collide, because the way we now think about how to describe a data centre isn't in the square footage or the number of computers, it's in how much power it consumes, and we now measure it in megawatts, and it starts in 10 megawatts, or single digit megawatts, very small data centres, into average size data centres in the 10s of megawatts, up to now the hundreds and the gigawatts of consumption that you look at these hyperscalers. But I think we have to put this into a sort of a human scale. It helps us to put this in human scale. If I were to go back to ChatGPT actually about now, 15 months ago. ChatGPT-4. If you were to put that data centre footprint into the province of Ontario, for example, where you and I both are right now, it would be the equivalent of a million internal combustion engine cars driving 30 kilometers a day, if you ever drive up the 401 you probably don't want to see another million cars on the 401 Yeah, but that's the amount of energy that we can think of in terms of a data centre of that scale.   Trevor Freeman  12:33 Yeah, and again, kind of putting it in the electrical industry's terms, what we consider as a large load so we have a specific designation of a large load request that is anything five megawatts and higher. And like, up until recently, we would get one or two of those every once in a while, like, it's pretty rare to get a large load request. We are seeing large load requests coming in at a near constant pace now, like the number of large load requests we're getting, and a lot of it is because of this, not all because of data centres or anything like that, but a lot of them are certainly driven by that need for more more computing power, more facilities that support that.   Phil Harris  13:18 That's right. And at the same time, we're seeing a demand on on energy around now home, EV charging, and other aspects of the general distribution of the power, everything's taking a step function. But if I could just say one thing to your point about before I was seven megawatts, was a high load, then we may need to change that scale. It's almost inefficient to build a data centre unless you're somewhere above the 10 megawatt range, because at that point, get somebody else to do it for you.   Trevor Freeman  13:42 Interesting, yeah, and that's where it's sort of like, almost like, renting space in a data centre for a request of that size. Interesting, something that you know, I've seen kind of in your in your writing, on your on your blogs, is the idea that traditional data centres are really built for peak capacity, which absolutely mirrors the power industry. We build our electrical grids for peak capacity, and obviously that leads to a fair amount of inefficiencies. So if you're building just a peak capacity, if you're not at peak capacity, there is an inefficiency happening. There something that you identified. It's a stat from your research talks about graphics processing unit usage rates as low as 20 or 25% so I'm assuming that means kind of like three quarters of that hardware is sitting idle or not being used valuably. Tell us a little bit about what, what Cerio what you're doing, what your composable architecture specifically is doing to reclaim that wasted power and cooling capacity,   Phil Harris  14:44 Yeah, and so it starts off with your the premise you correctly raised is that, if we think about the the equipment, the physical equipment, and how we put these devices and these components together in a data centre, the same model we've been using today is, is about 3035, Years old in terms of individual compute systems, where we run applications, software that has memory and central processing units, those typical things you have in a laptop, or you have every computer. But then we put these accelerators, these GPUs, companies like Nvidia now are the one most valuable companies on the planet, if not the most valuable planet company on the planet, because that's the technology they develop. But we're trying to put these new class of accelerators into an existing compute model which wasn't designed for this. So then itself now starts to fragment the ability to leverage those resources in a data centre. And as you accurately said, it's interesting. If I could geek out on this a little bit for the energy consumer in the room, please. Do we think? We think about the notion not only the megawatts of power going into the data but we we think about what we call power usage efficiency. And that basically says, whatever the power delivered to a data centre, how much of that is applicable to the IT systems in that data centre, a good, well run, efficient data centre is about 1.2 that means about 1.2 times the amount of power that's used is delivered. Your home, for example, is about 30 times the amount of power we use is what's delivered. We are very inefficient from our home use, by the way. But that's another problem to solve in another podcast, but in this case, that's all true until we then ask the question, but what's actually being used at that equipment? And that's now in that 25 to 30% range at any point in time, and we refer to that as stranded and idle assets that, for whatever reason, aren't where the application is or aren't applicable to be used for the application that moment because they're in some other box, or it's a time of day when people use equipment. And by the way, equipment like that isn't being used 24 by seven, but it's drawing power 24 by seven, right? So there's lots of inherent inefficiencies in that model. So what we do is we provide the ability to dynamically have pools of resources where we can dynamically attach resources to a compute system as required, at the scale you're required, and allowing you to be much more efficient in the timing of that and the amount of equipment required to meet your end solution. And by doing that, we can increase the number of accelerators that you apply to a compute system, which inherently means you are much more efficient in those compute systems, because it's not just the computers. As I said before, there's storage, there's firewalls, there's load balances, there's networking equipment, all of that can now be much more efficiently used. All of that is drawing power.   Trevor Freeman  17:35 So is the idea, then, that the equipment not being used, or when you're at a lower demand time in terms of computing power, you've got physical equipment idling, sort of in more idle mode, drawing less resources that you can then ramp up so the peak amount of equipment still there. You're just being more efficient with it when it's not being used. And you've developed a way to sort of dynamically pull that in. Is that what I'm hearing.   Phil Harris  18:00 Exactly, I'll give you an example. A data centre here in Toronto wanted to have a block of 128 GPUs. They could have, they could they could service their customers with, with the current systems they were using previously to deploying our infrastructure, they had to require deploy, actually, 200 GPUs and a very large number of servers in the to house those GPUs. By deploying this area technology, they brought that down to 136 actual GPUs, and they reduced the number of compute platforms by a factor of four. So they reduced it by 75%.   Trevor Freeman  18:35 Yeah, that's fantastic,   Phil Harris  18:36 With exactly the same outcomes to their customers. With no no contention for resources, no oversubscription of resources, just more efficient use of those resources.   Trevor Freeman  18:46 Gotcha. So still able to meet that peak demand, but not sort of firing up that equipment when it's not needed.   Phil Harris  18:53 Well, not just not firing it, not having to have as much stranded equipment, because we can use all the equipment all the time.   Trevor Freeman  19:01 Gotcha. Okay, so in when I was kind of setting up that last question, I used the term composable architecture, and I'll admit that I pulled that from your material. Help me understand what that means. So you know that I've also seen you use composable infrastructure sounds a bit abstract, like, what? What are we talking about here? What does that actually look like?   Phil Harris  19:20 When a consumer, or someone who's building a data centre buys their computer equipment, they usually will actually buy the computers, the GPUs, the storage and other things at the same time, and they will get delivered together, and that box now becomes a unit of compute capacity. But the thing about that is whether you're able to use that entire capacity, the length in which that's a useful there's a lot of innovation churn right now as new things are coming through very quickly. But that box is now solid. You know, it's statically built for the rest of its life. Pretty much, it's very expensive. IBM did a study to take a server out of a rack, these big, six foot racks or bigger, where. These servers are housed with lots of wires going into them, power and data and all sorts of things. It's about $1,000 a minute to take one of those servers out of the rack and either change something that's broken, update something so they just don't get taken out of the rack. Because the average time to take a server out of the rack is about an hour. The math on that's pretty simple. So if I'm spending $60,000 to upgrade a 20,030 $1,000 server, I'm just gonna leave it there and buy another one. So that creates more of these stranded assets. So composability says, Let's separate these things into, as I said, pools of resources, compute accelerators and other devices, and have a fabric between them that allows us to, in real time, assemble a compute system that I need. That's the composing part as I need it, because I can now take the resources anywhere in my data centre, if you've got the right fabric, which we've built that allows you then to real time build that compute system with exactly the same capabilities, exactly the same performance, and without having to change any of your software or the way the service work. Everything has to be off the shelf to make this work, and that's what we've built.   Trevor Freeman  21:05 Got you. So, two of the terms, and you'll forgive me, this is sort of a new sector for me. Two of the terms that are used as metrics to determine performance are power usage, effectiveness, and you've kind of talked about, you know, GPU usage. Is the industry moving more towards that GPU usage metric? Is that just something that you guys are kind of leading the curve on? Or where are we at on that?   Phil Harris  21:34 Oh no, this is very much the industry way of describing not just efficiency, but requirements. And we use very weird terms for this. Every industry has their weird term. Weird terminology, and we're now moving to the for example, in AI, the number of tokens per second when you and I put a request or a question into ChatGPT or CoPilot or chord, whatever we use, those words get translated into tokens, actually numbers. Every compute system is just a big calculator. At the end of the day, we do, we do massive processing on numbers. How many of those tokens can I put into the system? How long does it take to process those tokens and give me a response? And the tokens per second, per watt is now what we're asking. So how many tokens a second, and what power per token is it costing me to process information? And that's the interesting way of thinking about how AI, for example, and that's value started this conversation will be measured is the most amount of tokens per second, per watt. Now, right now, we're focusing on tokens per second. We're not looking at the last denominator, which is watts. So that's why these data centres are getting so ridiculous. Ridiculously large. And you know, we even heard it in the in the State of the Union address in the United States earlier in the week, where, you know, there's now the administration pushing cloud vendors and AI vendors to say, Hey, pretty soon you're gonna be on your own about delivering power. Because, quite frankly, the way you're going. It's going to become untenable to think about that from a national grid perspective. Now, I think that may be a little bit into the future, but I don't think it's a completely unreasonable sentiment at this point.   Trevor Freeman  23:12 Yeah, and I mean, you're talking about, and we talked earlier about the just the scale of energy usage here is reaching a new height, a new level. And if we break it down to the individual racks, you know, these racks of servers or processors that you've got in your data centre, we're now talking about anywhere from 50 kilowatts to 100 kilowatts of cooling need. And that's the big driver of energy usage, I think, is correct here is the cooling need per rack multiplied by, of course, big numbers to get those, you know, 5-10-20-30, megawatt data cetnre we're talking about when we talk about cooling and we talk about, you know, hot spots within a data centre, how does your approach differ from kind of the standard way of doing it.   Phil Harris  24:02 So that's a great question, and I think we should explain why the cooling part, it's a bit like buying really good, expensive wagyu steak every day and then having to spend a lot of money on a gym membership to then go and burn off those calories. So we put all this power into power these compute systems, but then we have to keep them cool, and the harder they that, the faster they run, the more powerful they run, the hotter they get. But we need to cool them. So there's this relationship between the more power we draw, the more cooling we need, and cooling is becoming, as I said, that sort of trade off for performance. Now there's lots of exotic ways of cooling computer systems. We can just blow air across them. We can have a liquid like the radiator in your car, or we can literally drop these compute systems into bars of solvents. Ferdinand Porsche, I like to use of other industry analogies. Ferdinand Porsche, the guy who obviously designed the first Porsches and the VW Beetle, realized if I could distribute the heat of the engine block with a horizontal block, I could blow air across it. It was much more efficient than trying to put a radiator to actually cool down the engine block the way that other cars who have the engine in the front, and it's because of surface area. Now, if I've got to put all my GPUs and CPUs and memory close together, either in the same box or the same rack, that concentration of heat needs to be addressed with cooling. One of the ways we can address this is not only to be very selected when I compose the GPU, it's the only time it's drawing power, but also I can spread them out through my data centre by having a fabric that allows me to connect them to the compute systems with the same performance, but now I can distribute my heat generation. That means I can cool more efficiently, just like that Fernand Porsche analogy of the of the Porsche 911 because now heat over over, spread of distance and surface area is a more efficient way, which means it won't mean that we won't ever get to liquid cooling. I don't think immersion cooling is a good idea for lots of other reasons. It's a necessity, more than an optimization, but we can defer the complexity, the cost of those exotic cooling systems if we're more efficient in a way we use and design our data centres.   Trevor Freeman  26:18 And I guess there's a similar description there of, if you're concentrating all that heat in a specific, you know, physical area within a bigger building room, whatever you want to call it, that that cooling system is having to work to that peak cooling need, so to that hot spot effectively. But it's not working just on that spot. It's working across the whole physical area. If you're spreading that cooling need out across the whole room, one the peak is a little bit lower, and you're just more effectively using your whole cooling system. Is that fair to say?   Phil Harris  26:52 And that's exactly the right way of looking at this. And think about it from this perspective as well. The reason we have to cool is because if we don't call sufficiently, those devices become very unreliable and reduce a useful lifespan without going into who, because they keep this information confidential. But one large cloud provider in the US, for example, a GPU that normally has a lifespan of at least three years, is going down to about nine months right now. And the reason for that reduction the lifespan of the use of that GPU, is because of the heating characteristics within these boxes that are getting even with all these cooling mechanisms are becoming now a reduction in the lifespan. So that means we have to create even, remember, I said what it costs to take a system out of a rack. That means we don't have to apply an efficient and effective cooling strategy, our power strategy and cooling trategy, then we start hitting problems very quickly.   Trevor Freeman  27:50 Got you okay. Okay, so there's a mantra that I admit I hadn't seen before until kind of reading some of your material. It's, it's friends. Don't let friends build data centres. And I think it's referring to, you know, this, this move. And there's so many industries that kind of do this cycle of centralization to decentralization, and the sort of data movement went towards that centralization, and you saw these big, massive data centres. But there's, there's kind of a move now back to, let's call it decentralization or repatriation of data. And so for various geopolitical reasons, organizations, companies, governments, are wanting to pull their data back home and have it kind of be more in their control, living in their own servers. So how are you or how is Cerio helping companies kind of get back into the data centre business or repatriate their data without, kind of, you know, getting into the troubles that led for to that centralization in the first place?   Phil Harris  28:55 Yeah, and by the way, I can't take real credit for that quote. Cole Crawford, who was one of the early guys at Facebook before it became META, and was one of the leading voices in the Open Compute platform movement, which is try and standardize how we do these things. Cole is now the CEO of a company called Vapor IO, and what he was really saying is, it's so complicated and difficult to run data centres, let alone building the capital expense. AI isn't just one thing. There's lots of stages in the workflow of AI. We train these big models. You have heard of large language models like ChatGPT or copilot, but what we use them for the results of those trained models is what we call inference. Now you'll now hear about agentic AI, where we turn those results into actions. Okay, that's the agency part of agentic. Well, the use of AI in the corporate world is now becoming, as you said, both regulated, but from an intellectual property perspective, it's about how I control my data and my information. Because if I put that all into somebody else's large language model, I basically put. Populated somebody else's large language model with what might be my proprietary information or information that's very sensitive, and it's one of the reasons why you'll hear in the press about anthropic for example, trying to put guardrails around the use of their AI, because they're very sensitive to this. Most enterprises, governments of all sorts, have realized, though, they need to have run this in their own data centres, because they need to have control over this in control over this information and the use of this information, that's the repatriation you're talking about, moving these workloads now into the organization that previously said, Hey, cloud computing can take this problem. We're going to now figure out how enterprises, which are far many more of them in far more diverse locations, can now build their own data centres and get the right power, the right efficiency, the right capabilities at the right cost.   Trevor Freeman  30:47 Does that open the door? I mean, earlier, you talked about, you know, if we're talking about a five megawatt data centre, it's almost not worth it. You know, that's just sort of renting space in someone else's. How does that track with an organization that won't have enough data or enough computing power, whatever the metric is to warrant a 30 megawatt data centre for their own data, but wants to get that that control, wants to bring it more in house, is our is your technology helping those smaller data centres exist? Is that the correlation there?   Phil Harris  31:18 We can now move it into one of the things that we another couple of terms that may be an maybe not your your listeners may not be familiar with in the compute world or the data centre world, we talk of brownfield and Greenfield. Brownfield is that which is already there. Greenfield is something I have to build new. A lot of the Brownfield world is what is the predominant sort of quantity of compute power on the planet is primarily brownfield The question is, can I take that existing infrastructure and put the capabilities we've been describing in this discussion into those brownfields? So I can reduce the cost of the expansion of that because I can reuse the compute equipments there, I can now add just the discrete GPU technology, for example, into an existing data centre that doesn't therefore blow the power budget or the cooling envelope within that environment, but I can still now start taking advantage as I figure out what my larger plans are, and at the same time, how do we have a tier of providers? I'll give you an example. There's a company in, again, in Canada, think on who are building a data centre in in Ottawa, it's going to have its own liquid natural LNG as its source of power for its own power requirements. Why? Because they can have the power they need as they need it in that location, and they can provide that secure infrastructure for both government and private enterprises, and think on is certainly in Canada, one of those companies that's really seen to be a trusted partner in this. So it will be a bit of what can I do myself? How do I have a trusted partner? We think of sovereign AI a lot. That means trust more than anything, and that's becoming the new mechanism of thinking about this.   Trevor Freeman  33:04 Thinking about the environmental impact of tech and of data. We've talked about the energy usage here, but there's also the physical aspect to it. Of the pace of improvement in technology means we see obsolescence, or we see kind of technology being outdated fairly quickly. We all, like on the personal level. We all see this with our cell phones, our smartphones, our whatever tech we have at home that seems to be out of date fairly soon. I think that the stat, or that the saying that's out there is, you know, tech is kind of obsolete or becomes trash within three years. Obviously, this is not sustainable. Is this part of the drive of what you're doing? Is it? Are you looking to sort of extend the life of the physical equipment you've touched on this a little bit, but maybe expand a little bit on that?   Phil Harris  33:52 Yeah, this goes a little bit back to that Brownfield-Greenfield discussion. But one way of looking at I guess, is when I put all of these components into what the classic model, the current model, I put my central processing unit, my memory, my storage, my GPUs, all in the same box. What is the thing in that box that I want to take advantage of as new innovation happens, versus that which is happening over a slower evolutionary cycle? Well, right now, if I put everything in the same compute unit. Go back to my cost of taking that box out of the rack. I'm pretty much limited by the slowest innovation curve within that platform. Now as what I can take advantage over time. Interestingly, GPUs are innovating currently at a clip of about once a year. Nvidia comes out the new generation of GPUs once a year, but now we're getting more GPUs into the market. We're getting much more diversity, and that diversity means I'll have more options more often. But if my compute system itself is only innovating once every three years to your point, then if I don't decouple these things, if I don't have the ability to separate these innovations. Curves. I'm always stuck with the slowest innovation curve. One of the things we've done at serial with the fabric we've built and the platform we've built is to allow you now to, if you like, dislocate those innovation curves and those options, so as new technology comes along, I can apply it to the things that are innovating slower and still get the outcomes I'm looking for. And that will significantly increase the existing lifespan of equipment that's in people's data centre.   Trevor Freeman  35:26 So, looking at a data centre of the future, and not, you know, not far into the future, let's say 5-10, years from now, are we seeing some of the same technology still exist within that data centre, or is it, you know, everything gets cycled out within like, what's the generation of a data centre, for example? Like, how often, or how soon will we see it all cycle out?   Phil Harris  35:48 I think you there's a there's a technical answer to that, and the financial answer to that. The depreciation model, so that the capital infrastructure can be written off people's books over a three or five year window is very typical. So we see that there's just a financial inhibition to changing more or faster than that three to five year window. The technical churn, as I said, is happening much more rapidly in the technologies that are drawing most power but providing most capability. So one of the things that we're looking at is how companies now start leasing infrastructure, because if they lease the infrastructure, they can now recycle that and bring new technology in faster into their organizations. But to do that, you've got to have the ability to bring new technology in and not be stuck with these static systems that we have today. So there's a set of financial instruments, and now with work that Cerio is doing, technical capabilities that allow customers to really continue to innovate. So there's no real, hey, it's going to be all churned out in three years. I'll continue to innovate over those three years, reciting the technology that can stay where it is and bringing new technologies as it becomes available at the right financial model.   Trevor Freeman  36:56 I'm curious about what that innovation is. So you talked about Nvidia, kind of essentially a new GPU every year. There's a new version every year. What is the innovation? Are they just is it getting faster and more compute power, and therefore it's pulling more energy? And is that just like a perpetual increase, or is it kind of same compute power, less energy, like, do we ever see, I guess what I'm what I'm getting at with this little bit of a ramble here is, do we ever see that that rate of change in energy usage start to flatten out and come down while we still can grow our computing power? Or does energy usage just continue to grow? Like, are we on a bit of a path with no end right now,   Phil Harris  37:44 History taught us a little bit about this. Gordon Moore, who was one of the founders of Intel actually, we had this term called Moore's Law, and Moore's Law was basically this idea that every 18 months we'll double the number of transistors on a piece of silicon. Now, for those in the computer science world, we understand what that means. For the rest of the world, the Trans World. The transistor is the smallest unit of technology within the computer. It's the basic building block of how we build computers. The central processing is all the GPUs. They all come down to taking literally silicon and in a foundry, we call them, figuring out how to make as many transistors interconnect with each other in a in a smaller area as possible, or the most amount of transistors we can. So a bit of a geeky answer to your question. But the way that we look at how each innovation improves is, are we increasing the number of transistors, which means we can do more math? Remember, all we're doing is processing numbers.   Trevor Freeman  38:41 Per unit, per physical unit, right?   Phil Harris  38:43 Per physical unit.   Trevor Freeman  38:44 Okay.   Phil Harris  38:45 And the way we do that is in these big foundries that process all this silicon into these components. They have, what are called process nodes and the and literally how we etch a transistor, it's called lithography onto a piece of silicon. Tells us the power of that piece of silicon and the more I can etch. So we get into what we call the nanometer scale, or what we call a process node. So every time, if you really look into the spec sheets of Nvidia, every generation, they'll talk about how many nanometers their silicon process is based on. Because the smaller I can get that number, the more transistors I can have on the same amount of silicon, the more processing I have, but every transistor takes power. So with more transistors, I require more power, even though in the same physical space, it looks like the same amount of silicon. Therefore, your question was a great one. Do we ever get to zero nanometers? Well, no, we're going to hit a wall here eventually. So then the question is, that's the scale up model. Try and make one thing as big as possible. How about if we make lots of things powerful, but we have more of them in China, the last year, we heard of deep seek. Deep seek was a Chinese government sponsored effort to try and come up with a. Much more cost effective way of doing the equivalent to ChatGPT. They didn't do that with bigger GPUs. They did it with much smaller GPUs, but many more of them. And that comes back to how efficient I am in deploying lots of things together. And that goes back to my earlier point about we start with scale up. Inevitably, in the industry, we go to scale out.   Trevor Freeman  40:22 And is it fair to say that the power usage per transistor, is that fairly static? Like, is there efficiencies to gain there? Or your GPU is going to use more power because you're packing more transistors into it, and once you hit that wall, that's going to be the power consumption level, is that, right?   Phil Harris  40:43 Well, this is the games that these silicon manufacturers, like Intel, AMD, Nvidia, they're all trying to figure out how to sort of figure out new and interesting ways of packaging all of the silicon in these processing units. And we've got a whole industry and science around the packaging mechanism to make those tiles, and that we now think of them as little tiles of processing power, and some that will be doing very specific jobs. Some will be doing very general jobs. It's now getting to the point where the science around the packaging of these dyes or these tiles is as much as the of the of the innovation, as the actual tiles and the processing on them. So it's an extremely complex technical problem, and we are hitting some walls here, which is why I go back to my earlier point. We're now reaching a point where is it just a technical problem we're solving, or a technical, operational and commercial problem we have to think about? And this is that wall that wall that you asked me about right at the beginning of this conversation. Are we about to hit a wall? And the answer is, yes.   Trevor Freeman  41:46 Interesting. I mean, I'm always fascinated by like, what are the what are the really smart people in the industry focusing their time on? And it's so that's why we're talking to you. Of you know, you're looking at, how do we operationalize this. How do we get the most efficient combination and structure of what we're doing here? There's folks that are looking at, how do we pack the most computing power efficiency into these specific units? I guess there's an aspect of, how do we cool this in the in the most effective way, like, what's, how do we, you know, drive down the cooling power needed? What else is out there, in terms of, like, we have smart people focused on this efficiency. What's the thing that's missing from that, that sort of list?   Phil Harris  42:36 Well, I think maybe what's going on right now. And if I could just add a, unfortunately, just one more layer of complexity.  Remember said we were processing silicon? Well, the Earth's got lots of silicon, but we don't have lots of places to process that silicon. The companies that are formed to process silicon into these processing units, we call them foundries. The world's largest is TSMC, based in Taiwan. And then we have Intel, we have Samsung, we have a few others around the world. Global Foundry is another one. There is a limit, physical limit, because these foundries are huge and they take decades of development and optimization. So if we start breaking ground on a new foundry tomorrow, we'll see output in about five years. So we have a constrained supply. So if I'm if I'm Jensen at Nvidia or any of the big silicon manufacturers, I'm going to optimize that relatively constrained supply to where I'm going to get the best return on my investment. And that's why this scale up model is happening. So given that we know that we won't have any more foundry capacity of scale for another couple of years, at least, then the reality is we've got to think differently about how we're thinking about the processing of that silicon. Do I want just ever bigger processes that become more expensive, more limited in where I can deploy them. And quite frankly, the top 15 consumers in the world of silicon consume about 80% of that silicon, if not more. How do I democratize that? Again, it goes from scale up to a scale out model, where I can use that same processing capacity to produce more silicon.   Trevor Freeman  44:20 Fascinating. Yeah, I just, I took us down a little bit of a nerd out path. You had me really interested in that. Okay, so last question here, we hear this term for a bunch of different reasons. Around the world right now we're hearing this term democratizing, happening a lot, and I know you've talked about democratizing, AI, what does that mean? What does that mean to you, or describe that for us?   Phil Harris  44:48 Yeah, I think it really means. Going back to my last point about if 15 big consumers of silicon are going to consume the vast majority of verbal supply chain, that makes the. At a losing proposition for the rest of the organizations and the rest of the governments and the rest of the individuals on the planet. So how do we make sure that AI can be built both responsibly from a sustainability perspective, right? And I don't mean just the ecological side, but that's important here too, but also from the ability to I was on a panel yesterday between the UK Government and the Canadian government, where we're looking at how do countries around the world have the ability to control their own destiny? And there's this whole notion of sovereignty and AI sovereignty right now that isn't because people want to have closed walls around them, that you want to have choice. They don't want to be dictated to by very dominant players where they, quite frankly, don't have the buying power to compete. You know that the amount of capital going into some of the AI companies, we saw $30 billion going into anthropic last week. That's actually a small increase in their capitalization relative to the other big AI players on the planet. That's $30 billion so we've got to think to ourselves, is that a sustainable model commercially? And the answer is no. So we've got to have technology. We've got to have the right ability to deliver power. We've got to have the right designs of data centres that can keep them cooled in an effective and efficient and responsible way. And we've got to be able to give them enough power to make them viable, to make them useful. That's the democratization we all have to be focused on.   Trevor Freeman  46:25 And we need every, I guess, to sort of round of the point is we need everybody to be able, everybody being, you know, whatever, major industry, countries, whoever, to be able to access that equally, so that we don't have to rely on the major players out there in order to do those things you just said, gotcha.   Phil Harris  46:41 That's exactly right. And look, there'll always be a pyramid here. There always has been a technology. There's always still the big players, right? But the question is, have the big players the stifled out the ability for smaller players to come up, innovate, provide choice, provide alternative ways of looking at things, and that's what got to make sure that we keep the and this always relies on some new technology coming along that enables that. Sarah believes that we've created that next layer in the stack, if you like, of technologies that gives us that opportunity to rethink the innovation curve going forward.   Trevor Freeman  47:14 Very fascinating. Phil, thanks for your time. I really appreciate it. This has been super interesting. It's not an area that I often get to spend my time thinking about so is great to chat today. As as you know, we always kind of round out our interviews with the same series of questions to our guests. So what's a book that you've read that you think everybody should read?   Phil Harris  47:34 Well, I'm not sure I can recommend this for everybody. One of the people who basically, along the lines of some of the things I've been talking about today, who revolutionized the computer world was a gentleman by the name of Linus Torvald in Helsinki in Finland. At the time, he's now based in the States, he realized that there was a dominance around how the operating systems on computers, the things that run the software, was limiting, basically, innovation choice and forcing us down a very closed path. So he wrote something called Linux, which was a new operating system. So be on your phone, your TV, your microwave that's running Linux today. Interesting because there wasn't an operating system that we could then generally deploy. That meant there was more developers had the ability to write applications, more hardware vendors could now have software they could run on their on their platforms. He gave the world a new innovation curve. And every time this happens to my last point, good things happen. Very good things happen for the world, for every individual on the planet. And Linus was one of those individuals who saw that need. And so his book, just for fun, and he's a very quirky guy, as you can probably imagine, is a great book about his philosophical approach to what it takes to change really big problems. And I would encourage all of you just to even just read the first few chapters. It's a fascinating view of how an incredibly smart man, smart individual took on probably one of the biggest problems we had in the 20th and 21st Century of computing, and solved it by recognizing you take a different path.   Trevor Freeman  49:11 Yeah, very cool.   Phil Harris  49:12 As far as shows, um, I don't know. I'm one of these guys. I've got two 13 year old daughters. So my wife and I get to watch TV for a very limited amount of time where we can watch it, about the things we want to watch, so we tend to sort of cram things in. But I'm a huge Aaron Sorkin fan, so if I ever need something on a rainy day to go back just to think about how the world could be, I watch the West Wing. It's a show that's imaginary. It's got incredible script writing, it's got incredible character development, but it really talks about how to think about doing the right thing as well. Now, whether you agree with the politics or not, that's a different question, but just the thought that smart thinking solves big problems, again, sort of It's a bit like the Linus Torvald book. It just speaks to me about sometimes we can solve big problems. With individuals or people who just had the right way of thinking about things.   Trevor Freeman  50:00 Yeah, I think that's the kind of, you know, call it entertainment, because it is entertainment, but it's the entertainment that sticks with you, and that we go back to time and again, is the ones that we can also, like, see the the underlying philosophy, or, you know, theory of change that goes into that entertainment. And it's, it's fun to watch. It's, you know, either humorous or dramatic or whatever, but there's still that underlying message. And I think, yeah, West Wing is a great example of of that. There's a handful of those other sort of classic shows that are in that line too. A free round trip flight anywhere in the world. Where would you go?   Phil Harris  50:40 This is hard. My wife and I were talking about this the other day, and I've had the luxury of traveling just about everywhere. I think there's 15 countries on the planet I haven't been to, but if I ever want to go to one place is Bali. And there's two reasons. One, my wife and I went there for a honeymoon, and it was the beginning of the most important chapter of my life by far. And secondly, it's because it has that balance of everything. It's I love to scuba dive. I love the rainforests, the jungle, the architecture, the people, the food. It just brings everything into one package for me. And so it just again. It's those things that sort of speak to you emotionally and also intellectually. It's one of those things that I could always go back too.   Trevor Freeman  51:26 Fantastic. Who is someone that you admire?   Phil Harris  51:29 In history or today?   Trevor Freeman  51:32 You pick, anything.   Phil Harris  51:33 that's fascinating. I think historically it's under Brit it's hard not to go back to some of my forebears, or my country's forebears, Alan Turing, who, against all adversity, social, political, technical, came up with an inspirational way of thinking about solving what are deemed to be unsolvable. And again, it's a tragic story. I think we've all, if you see the movie that was made about his life, it's a very tragic story, but it's an inspirational story about how, again, if you just take a different approach to solving what seems to be an unsolvable problem, you can you get smart people together. Doesn't have to be a big army of people. I think so. Turing is one of those people that always comes back for me t think, wow, if I could have just some of his courage and some of his imagination and some of his intellect, I'd be a very happy person.   Trevor Freeman  52:29 Yeah, and it's almost, I mean, obviously, a brilliant man, but it's the willing to think in a different way, or willing to approach a problem in a different way that I mean, there's a long list in history of major turning points that are as a result of someone thinking in a different way or doing something in a different way. And I think that's a great example of it.   Phil Harris  52:49 Just about the entire course of human life are in the midpoint of the 20th century, change on that, that man's inspiration, that man's imagination.   Trevor Freeman  52:57 Yeah, and that's, that's not an understatement. That's fantastic. Okay, last question, what's something about, kind of the energy sector, or, you know, your sector that that you're really excited about, or something that you see in the future that you're really excited about?   Phil Harris  53:09 Actually, I see it now, to be honest, there are things in the future. Hey, I have two 13 year old kids. I want to have a sustainable ecology and world environment for them to live in and bring their own families up in. And I think about how we can use power more efficiently, but how we can make it look sustainability is important. I want to see renewable, sustainable energy for the general world as a thesis right now. It's how we can be much more efficient in the use of power and the right power delivery. And I think, as I said, I gave the think on example, that's incredibly exciting, because now, if we can do that at scale, that's an opportunity to do that democratization that I spoke about. So when I think about the things that really excited me about the data centre world, the world I live in, actually that power generation and power availability in a clean, effective, well managed fashion is exactly what we need right now, while the rest of us are solving these transistor problems.   Trevor Freeman  54:04 Yeah, it's, I mean, our listeners are probably going to roll their eyes, because I say this all the time, but one of the things that excites me the most is seeing like we're in a period of change, and that's a really exciting time to be working in this and I kind of hear that from you in your sector as well, and I see it in mine, in the energy sector of we're actually getting to see some of this innovation, some of these like leaps and bounds forward. That's not to say there aren't still problems. It's not to say there aren't steps backwards as well. But it's very cool to be working on this in a time when we're seeing that change, and that's kind of what I'm hearing from you as well. Indeed. Awesome. Phil, thanks so much for your time. I really appreciate it. This has been great. Chatting with you.   Phil Harris  54:42 Trevor, the pleasure is all mine. Thank you.   Trevor Freeman  54:44 Fantastic. Take care.   Phil Harris  54:46 Take care.   Trevor Freeman  54:47 Thanks for tuning in to another episode of the thinkenergy podcast. Don't forget to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts, and it would be great if you could leave us a review. It really helps to spread the word. As always, we would love to hear from you whether. Feedback, comments or an idea for a show or a guest, you can always reach us at thinkenerg@hydroottawa.com.

In this episode of The Hen Report, Jasmin and Mariann dive into the emotional and political landscape of animal advocacy — from the dramatic DXE rescue operation at Ridglan Farms in Wisconsin to a surprising New York Times piece on MAGA figures warming up to animal rights. They also celebrate a major legal win for the long-stalled New York City foie…

Jennie Nash launches a brand-new Hot Seat Coaching series on the podcast—real, on-air coaching sessions where listeners get to hear a story develop in real time.In the first episode, Jennie brings #amwriting podcast producer Andrew Parrella out from behind the microphone as he begins work on his first novel. Fresh off completing the Blueprint challenge, Andrew shares his gothic horror premise: a Dracula-inspired story set in 1920s London, where Abriana Harker—the daughter of Mina Harker—faces a string of mysterious deaths unfolding against the backdrop of the suffrage movement.Jennie and Andrew pressure-test the blueprint together, refining the novel's central point, exploring how Van Helsing's legacy shapes the world of the story, and identifying ways to strengthen Abriana's role so the plot is driven by her choices. Andrew leaves with clear next steps—and this is just the beginning: he'll return in future episodes as Jennie continues coaching him through the process of developing the novel.You can connect with Andrew via his website AndrewParrella.com#AmWriting is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.TranscriptJennie: [00:00:00] Hi, I'm Jennie Nash and you're listening to the hashtag am Writing podcast. The place where we help writers of all kinds play big in your writing life. Love the process, and stick with it long enough to finish what matters most. Hi, I'm Jenny Nash and you're listening to the hashtag am Writing podcast.This is something new. It's a hot seat coaching episode where we're gonna work through a real challenge in real time with a real writer. And today. I'm joined by a really special guest. His name is Andrew Perella, and he has been the producer of this podcast for many, many years and is stepping out from behind the microphone to write his first novel.Andrew participated in the Winter Blueprint challenge that we recently completed. Which is to say he answered all 14 of the blueprint questions during our challenge and, and produced a [00:01:00] finished blueprint. And so I wanted to get on with him and talk about what do we do next? How do we go from there to the next thing?And he agreed to do that to help show our listeners how it goes. And I'm so excited about it because. He just did incredible work and also has so much work to go, so hopefully we're gonna get to, we're gonna get to follow Andrew as he does this for a few episodes and bring you along on the journey. So welcome Andrew from Behind the Microphone.Andrew: So much work to go. Thank you, Jenny. I'm really excited to be here.Jennie: So Andrew is, has a long career in public radio and is a producer of podcast for many people and is a storytelling guy, you know, as well as a sound guy. So this is, this is a big move. I feel like this is a right big move for you for sure, for deciding.This is the time to embrace the fact that you wanna do this thing. Does it [00:02:00] feel like that to you?Andrew: It, it feels like a right big move for me that I'm kind of prioritizing now this writing project for me. I'm prioritizing my project, um, over, over, uh, the projects of others whom, whom I help with projects.Yeah. So this is a big, big a right big moment for me.Jennie: It is totally a riping moment and. You're in the hot seat personal coaching, which I, I really appreciate you being willing to do So, um, where we stand today is, as I said, you, you finished the blueprint, you did all the work, you did the thing. So I'm just curious to sort of check in.How do you feel? Do you feel like that's an accomplishment? Do you feel some momentum? Like, what, where are you feeling, what are you feeling? Um,Andrew: I, I feel like it is a, a really big accomplishment because as we were working through the blueprint, I was getting feedback, uh, from you and KJ Dium about, uh, about, uh, how I was, how I was creating my [00:03:00] blueprint.It got me, it forced me to think about the book in some very real terms, in ways that I hadn't yet, and in ways that, you know, I had been kind of thinking about the book in more abstract notions. Um, and like this was putting pen to paper, uh, on so many things to think about, you know, beyond the, beyond the simple plot structure.Um, and I realized as I was going through this. How much I hadn't yet considered, and I think this helped to show me where the holes in my story were. Um. And he, even, even as I've finished, quote unquote, finished the blueprint, it's like I finished one inter iteration of it and like already the story has changed since I first started work on the blueprint.And so already I know I gotta go back and start reiterating on, on, on this, uh, uh, as we go along here.Jennie: Yeah. I mean, and that's the point, right? Yeah. Is the whole point is this is a tool that reveals. [00:04:00] What's working and what's not working? Is this what I want? Does this reflect my vision? And you get to, to play with that wet clay of the idea.So that's really what what we're doing. But the reason that I thought you'd be such a good candidate for coaching live in this way is your story. It really hangs together in so many ways. It's so great in so many ways and it, it would be easy to feel like, oh, I'm, I'm not that far. I got this. I could, I could start right?I can start writing. Yeah. But I hope, I hope what we're gonna show is, is really pushing yourself to answer core questions is gonna just make it so much stronger.Andrew: Absolutely.Jennie: So, um, all that being said, do you. What do you think the best way to share what you're writing with our listeners is? Do you think reading your book jacket copy feels good or do you wanna just say it out [00:05:00] loud?Andrew: Um, I feel like the book jacket copy, I. Um, that I, that I wrote doesn't quite, doesn't quite capture, I think in many ways what I think the book is going to be so Well,Jennie: and we're gonna actually getAndrew: to that. So I, and we're gonna get to that, I think. Yeah.Jennie: So why don't you just, just share what, what it is.Andrew: So, uh, the premise of the book is this happens, uh.Uh, the, the novel, it happens 20 years after the events of, uh, Bram Stoker's Dracula. Um, and so. It involves some of the same characters, and then it also involves the next generation of these characters. So these, those characters children. Um, the, uh, our protagonist is a Abriana Harker, who is the daughter of Mina Harker, who was, um, kind of the female, uh, lead in, in, in Dracula.And she was, she was bitten by Dracula in, in the original novel. [00:06:00] Um, and she is, uh, someone who is defended, um. Uh, by her, uh, by her friends and, and counterparts in, in that story, Abriana is her daughter. And Abriana is now facing a similar challenge. There are bodies that are turning up around her circle and uh, they appear to have similar injuries that Dracula's victims had 20 years ago, and some people recognize that and are.Going to begin trying to unravel the mystery. And this is all set against the backdrop of the universal suffrage movement, which is also happening in, uh, you know, 1920s London, where, where the novel is, novel is set. And so in broad strokes, that is, that is the, the, the primary premise of the book.Jennie: So the genre is horror.Gothic and I, I did some, some digging. I'm not a big reader of horror, so I did some digging into the genre to make sure that that was right. Because there [00:07:00] there's also thriller elements. There's mystery elements. Mm-hmm. There's, you know, there's other elements and it is, I always liked to, to test. Is this right?Is this right? Could it be tweaked? Could it be better? And it feels, it feels like there's really no question about the genre. Right. Do you feel thatAndrew: I, I feel that, I feel definitely, definitely feel that. And I think I, I, like gothic is, is, is a genre that I really enjoy and I want to develop some of those gothic themes in the story a little bit more than I have so far.But yes, I think gothic and, and horror is very much where, where this, where this book lives. Yeah.Jennie: Yeah. And that is something I wanna talk about for sure when we get to the inside outline. But I wanna start with, um, the second question of the blueprint is what's your point? And I know this is something you've struggled with a little bit.Yeah. Um, but so the current point that you have here is. I feel like maybe this came from me. So, [00:08:00] uh, I, it's, you can't change the world without upsetting people. The more you want to change, the more people you upset, and that's fine, but it, but it doesn't, it does, it doesn't feel like it captures. There's a real moral, philosophical debate at the center of your story.Right.Andrew: Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, the, the characters are certainly, uh, in the midst of a paradigm shift, you know, there's the, there, the, the world order is changing as, uh, as suffrage is, is being opened to more and more people. Um, and times a world order like that changes. There are people who are for it and there are a lot of people who are against it.And so I think that's. That's an element in, in play here in the, in the novel. And that, and that's something that I wanted to explore. And obviously there are parallels in current times as well for, uh, for this, for this sort of change. So I think that's, I think that's, that's certainly, that's certainly part of, uh, of, of [00:09:00] the story.Yeah.Jennie: So I was, when I, when I review a blueprint, and for anybody who's, who's got one all on the page and, and you, you like it and it feels pretty good. The step is to, to really pressure test everything. So I, I read through the whole thing. I love looking at a blueprint. A blueprint as a whole rather than piece by piece.And in this particular case, it's like this. Yeah. This point feels bloodless, which is something we definitely don't want in this story. So I went back to your why and your why is really powerful and really personal and really political. Um, it's, it's fiery, it's articulate, like there's so much about your why that I.You can see my comments on the page. Mm-hmm. Not the listener, but Andrew can Right where I was going. Great. Yes. Very powerful. Awesome. You know, it's just, it's excellent. And you had some lines in there [00:10:00] about the, the monster in this story is not the vampire, but a man who is refusing to change with the times basically.And. That felt to me, given everything else you're saying about the parallels between this, the milieu of this story and the milieu we live in right now, the, the fraught. Climate, political climate. Cultural climate that felt more potent as a point. And I, I wondered what you thought about that.Andrew: Yeah, I mean, I think that that is as mu that is as much a part of the, the premise as I've conceived it, as, as anything else that I've, I've said, um, you know, the, the, the.Spoiler alert, the the murders aren't being committed by, by the vampire, uh, or vampires. Uh, the murders are being committed by an old white dude who is not [00:11:00] happy with how the politics are shifting under his feet and how the world is changing around him, um, and is trying to, at all costs, prevent that from happening, even sacrificing a bit of his own humanity in, in the process.And so I think that is. Is is something that certainly resonates, but I think it yeah. Is, as you say, there's a passion, there's a blood there that in in, in the why that didn't quite make it to my point. Um,Jennie: yeah, yeah, yeah. So I would suggest for the next iteration mm-hmm. To, to really push that point and.It's gonna keep changing, it's gonna keep, um, you know, getting refined as you go. But I think it's important to move it forward as you keep writing. So the, um, yeah, something that's, that's fiery and that's, um, about, ‘cause that's a, that's a, you're flipping an important trope in a. In a [00:12:00] classic novel, right?Mm-hmm. That it, it's not the vampire. So like, why that? Why, why are we flipping out? What is that showing us? What is the point of, of doing that in the story? That, so I would really play with that. Um, does that make sense? Mm-hmm.Andrew: Yes, it does. Okay. Yes, it does.Jennie: Okay, so the next thing I wanna talk about is your super, your super simple story.Mm-hmm. And. What's interesting about the super simple story is, I mean, I love everybody always. Here's me say this, who's listened to me for very long, but I love a constraint on in creativity. And this, trying to get this story in a really short space often reveals something. And what it, when it was revealing to me is, so you've got, you've got a abriana, she wants to, uh, become a doctor.Because of her mother's, [00:13:00] her mother died in childbirth with her. Um, so that's the, that's the storyline. You've got the murders that are happening and, and then you've got the universal suffragette movement, this political debate that's going on. So there's these three threads and. Even in the super simple story, it was feeling a little bit like they're disconnected.I don't think they're disconnected in your mind. I think they're disconnected on the page.Andrew: Okay.Jennie: So I wanted to just ask you to articulate that a little bit more. ‘cause you hint in the um, book jacket copy later, AA has things in common with Finn halting who's. Her uncle, the Vampire Hunter. Are you comfortable sharing what those are?Andrew: Yeah.Jennie: What those commonalities are?Andrew: Yeah, I think, I think, [00:14:00] um, uh, Abraham Von Helsing is, is a character from the original novel, um, and he helps guide the team to, uh, uh, find, track down and destroy Dracula. Um. In the world of my novel, his understanding of vampires changes as he's, as he continues to do research on them.And so he's discovered, he's discovered more about them. That will spell out a little bit more in the, uh, in the novel, but. First and foremost, and one of the, one of the primary roles he plays in the, in, in the original novel is a, as a doctor. And that's one thing that Abriana really admires about him. He becomes a bit of a, a, um, a surrogate.Parent to her with her mother dying and her, uh, her father's grief, turning into a little bit of emotional distance from, uh, from Abriana. And so von uh, van Helsing kind of fills that gap and so she associates her. I think her desire [00:15:00] to become a doctor stems from both her birth, you know, ultimately killing her mother, but also because, and, and, and wanting to prevent that from happening to other women, but also because she's seen, you know, van Helsing.Perform his, his service as a doctor. He, she's seen it in action and what it can do and wants to, and wants to, wants to emulate that. And so, and, and I think one of the, one of the things that, that I get excited about is incorporating a little bit of like historic realism into, into the novel as well. And there was in, uh, the 1920s a, a medi, the London School of Medicine for women.Um, it had it, it had been. Open for a, a decade or so. It was still a fairly new school at the time. And so that there was an, uh, a real place that she would've been able to go and get an education is something that, uh, is something that I'm, I'm excited to have part of, part of the novel and like that school wouldn't have been possible if it was not for the Women's Liberation [00:16:00] Movement, which resulted obviously in the universal.In the universal suffrage movement. And so all of that I feel, kind of ties, ties together in a way that I haven't explained very well in my super simple copy, super simple story explanation there.Jennie: So, so that's what I'm trying to get at is Adrianna is not just some random young woman. No, I mean she's, she's very clearly descended from.A, a particular, uh, family who's had a particular thing happen and you know, there several generations. So have you designed her as a protagonist using those elements of the family yet, or, or is it more kind of just convenient that she's there? Does that make sense?Andrew: I think so, [00:17:00] and I think it's probably somewhere in the middle.I think I like the idea of tying her into these characters that who have an existing history, and it then gives her a little bit of, a little bit of, uh, gravitas for the listener when they, when they start digging in that maybe they, maybe they, maybe they have read Dracula, are familiar with those characters and so, okay, this is the next, this is the next generation.But yeah, I mean, I think Abriana reflects. A lot of other things that, that aren't in, that aren't represented in the original novel. Um,Jennie: I guess what I, I guess what I'm saying is it feels, one of my concerns is it feels as if you could write this story about Adriana and not have her beat from this family.She could, she could be kind of. Anyone Gotcha. In this [00:18:00] situation? Gotcha. Does that, am I, am I missing, am I missing that? What would make, you know, let's just, um, I know there's, there's several women in the novel who have, have important roles. So I'm gonna pick a name that's not them. Let's say that, uh, there's a young woman, Catherine, you know, not connected to, um.Ben Helsing not connected to her mother, not connected to that whole thing. And same time period, same motivation. She wants to be a doctor. Maybe she had someone in her family die, and that's her motivation. You know, like suffrages, like that whole story could still play out with Catherine. Uh, am I wrong? I want you to prove me wrong.Andrew: So like, yes, it could, I feel like, I feel like one of the things I like about tying in Van Helsing is it, it presents a red herring, um, in the sense that it's like, oh, we all think. [00:19:00] That we're gonna find out vampires are responsible for all of these deaths. Um, like, I don't know, like, and I, and I can kind of slow burn the, you know, the reveal of vampires in general and, and, and how they end up not actually being the antagonists in this By, by which is So by borrowing, by borrowing his name and sharing his glory a little bit.Yeah.Jennie: Right. But back to Catherine, our, our mm-hmm. Mythical protagonist.Andrew: Yeah.Jennie: Same thing could happen there. Everybody thinks, oh, the vampires are back. Um, Catherine, you know, they, they keep happening around her. She's gotta figure it out. You know what I mean? So,Andrew: well, so, soJennie: isAndrew: Yeah,Jennie: no, go ahead.Andrew: The question, the question I, I think that I've been grappling a bit with too is do we exist in a world where.Is, does the novel, does the world of the novel, a place where people [00:20:00] have recognized the efforts of Van Helsing and that vampires exist? Is that, is that common knowledge in this world, or is all of that still unknown to folks?Jennie: Okay, this. Is the piece that I've been missing.Andrew: Okay.Jennie: That's exactly the piece that I've been missing.That's totally it. That, so here, this is world building. If anybody's writing anything with magic, fantasy, sci-fi, even just straight up history, and maybe it's a retelling or a re um, imagining, you often know those, those questions for sure. And especially for where for. My understanding, I, I'm, like I said, I'm not a horror reader, but I do know a little bit about Dracula, but the, it was a, a sort of science versus, um, like science played a big role in that.What [00:21:00] can we know? Mm-hmm. What can we prove? What is, what is unknowable?Andrew: Mm-hmm.Jennie: Those sorts of things. Absolutely. So that, you've gotta know that here. Mm-hmm. Has it been proved? Is it. Accepted knowledge. Is Van Helsing a hero who's locked away in his lab continuing to, you know, with funding and whatever to research his thing?Or is he some. You know, recluse who was shamed in the public eye and people think he's crazy, like that's gonna color everything. Mm-hmm. Okay. And that's gonna be, that's gonna then be the answer I'm looking for. Like, why Adriana as our protagonist and not Catherine. Right. So she's gonna have that, you imagine her going to medical school with.Those two different stories behind her, how different it's [00:22:00] gonna be when she shows up in the classroom and people know, you know, or when they know who she is.Andrew: Right? Yeah.Jennie: So there, there's a real, the reveal to the reveal to the reader about her connection and who she is and then her, her reveal to the society she lives in about.Who she is and you know, the meaning she makes from all that you know, and did, no matter what you decide about Van Helsing, she then you have to all just also decide about her. Does she agree with the prevailing wisdom? If everybody thinks he's a hero, does she think he, he is too? Or does she think he's kind of whacked and then, um, learns otherwise or, you know, like the or, or the other wayAndrew: around?Jennie: Yeah. Or the other way around. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So yeah, this is the piece that's missing is I feel like you have, and this is what I felt the second I heard you talk about your story. I'm like, oh, this could be so [00:23:00] good. Like, this is so potent, but you're like, you're missing it. You're just, it's like it's, it's like it's not landing as as solid as it should, and I think this is why.Right. I had not been able to figure it out, but. And you have, so I gotta make sure I understand the character. So a Adriana's dad is the brother of Van Helsing.Andrew: Uh, they're not related in the original, in the original novel. They're, they're, uh, they're just friends. Okay. Okay. But they're, but they're clo Okay.They're, they're close friends. And because Van Helsing ultimately saved both of their lives, uh, he is kind of a, a, a surrogate uncle. So, uncle, uncle in quotation marks. Yeah,Jennie: yeah, yeah. Uncle is Is an honorific.Andrew: An honorific, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yep.Jennie: That confused me. Okay. So I thought that there was a direct lineage there.Andrew: Right.Jennie: But there's not No,Andrew: no genetic link. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:24:00]Jennie: But a link through. Her mother a link to Van Healthing Through the mother.Andrew: Yes.Jennie: Um, and, and what happened to her. So, okay. Yeah. We have to understand his role, who he is, what he's doing in the world, what people think of him. Mm-hmm. Um, and also this is important for.Just the environment of your story, because we've got this division, political division around the suffragette movement. Is there, is there o, are there other, um, like, I wanna say mood, like what's the mood of the place where she's, this story's taking place? Is it, you know, a creeping sense of doom on many levels?Uh, is the do the vampire, like, is the fact, oh, maybe the vampires are [00:25:00] back. Does that make sense for the times? Um, like you and I are talking right now in 2026, um, during very extreme political upheaval and also during the time when there's this been this kidnapping of this prominent. Um, media personalities, family member that hasn't been solved.And there's this sense like, well of course this is happening now. Like this, you know, is there a weird, are we gonna have a, um, famous serial killer? Story unfolding in our time. Right. Like, that's what I keep thinking, right? Like there's a sense of, of course these things are going to start happening now ‘cause things are, feel so unstable and unsettled.Andrew: Yeah.Jennie: Is that what's going on there? [00:26:00]Andrew: I mean, I think potentially yes. I, I've, because yeah, I feel like this, it, it, it, it was an unsettled moment politically. And also a little bit medically as they as like the medical establishment is transitioning from miasma theory to germ theory. And that was kind of late, late, uh, 19th century, early 20th century.But like there's, there's kind of been a, a paradigm shift there. So I think, I feel like yeah, there does wanna be, as you were saying, kind of like this constant, creepy. Creepy feeling. Yeah. I'm like, I'm like to lean into the gothic, like I thought, like, I really want that to pervade every, every chapter, every page.I want that kind of like creeping sensation that that doom is around the corner. Um, that, thatJennie: Right. And doom for many sources. Right. Because I think that that's kind of one of your points.Andrew: Mm-hmm.Jennie: Is well, what I'm going back to what [00:27:00] the point, point was. The point we're kind of, um. Leaning toward is people who review, refuse to evolve.When the world demands, it can become monsters. So the world is evolving in many different ways and probably getting the opportunity for a lot of different people to have to evolve in a lot of different ways. It's not just one way. It's not just like, oh, get on this bus, or you're missing. Get on, you know, what's the metaphor?Like you'll miss the boat if you don't get on the boat. But it feels like there's all kinds of boats one, one might miss here, right? Um, I think so. And so that's that. Yeah. Okay, so, so in terms of what to do next, I think your, your homework here is you've gotta get to know Van Haling. Yeah. And the, and the world a little bit better.So I would do some character [00:28:00] development work on, on him and what the world thinks of him and what a Brianna's stepping into the, the light by. Insisting on going to medical school does to Van Haling. Does it delight him? Does it challenge him? Does it, um, you know, what does he think of that? I think that's important.Andrew: Yeah.Jennie: Um, to know too.Andrew: Yeah.Jennie: Um,Andrew: a couple, a couple of things that are occurring to me. I think I had taken for granted the reader's knowledge of the events of Dracula, and I don't think I can do that. I think I need to. To develop these characters for my own, as you're saying, I, I gotta, I have to develop Van Van Hels, the Van Helsing character.I have to develop him for, for my own purposes for this novel. Um, which makes a lot of sense.Jennie: Well, that's actually a really good question. You defined your ideal reader in a way that I thought was. [00:29:00] Completely delightful. Like she was so fleshed out. She felt like a, a full on character and I was like, oh, I know that.I know that woman. I loved it. It was great. But an important piece you missed in that is you said that she enjoys books about. London, the city and maybe some horror and gothic, but what is her relationship to Dracula, your ideal reader? You need to know that.Andrew: Yeah. Yeah.Jennie: My, you know, this is what's funny sometimes about being a book coach is I always say that the, the writers, the god of their own story, I can't possibly know everything that the writer knows about what they're writing about, what they've read, what they've thought, how they've lived, any of it.And, and in this particular case, I don't read. I don't read horror. I, I, I could barely tell you the, the bear outlines of Dracula if, if press, [00:30:00] um, I mean, I know the, you know, cartoon, the cartoon version. I, I, I could tell you a little more about Frankenstein only because I, against my will, watched the recent, um.Retelling.Andrew: Oh yeah. I haven't actually seen that yet.Jennie: So I say against my will because I was like, oh my gosh, this is too much for me. But um, you need to know if, so here's a perfect, let me finish my sentence. You need to know if your reader is a fan, is a reader, is a immersed in the gothic world, is gonna know all these things.Know all the tropes and know all the connections or not. And the, um, perfect example of that is, remember that book, um, pride and Prejudice and Zombies?Andrew: Yes.Jennie: So that appeal to people who love Jane Austen.Outro: Mm-hmm.Jennie: Like, you're probably not gonna read that book if you're not a Jane Austen [00:31:00] fan, but if you are a Jane Austen fan, you're, you cannot wait to get your hands on that.And. Also probably if you're a zombie horror fan, you know, you would delight in that even if you didn't understand the depths of the Jane Austen piece. But that book spoke to such a very particular audience that turned out to be a massive audience. Right, right. So, yeah,Andrew: yeah, yeah.Jennie: You know, I think you need to make a decision.Are you writing for someone like me who's, who's like, I don't know, like I think when I first read it, I was like. Who's Ben Sing? And you're like, he's the famous guy from the thing, right? So are you writing for someone like me or does your, a avatar, your ideal reader hear, you know, does she watch the movie?Does she, does she read the books? Does she gobble that stuff up?Andrew: Right? Yeah.Jennie: What, what is your instinct right now?Andrew: Singling out one or the other is going to, is going to change [00:32:00] how I write the book. Um. What is my instinct? Uh, I dunno. When I think about the character that I, that the character of the reader that I fleshed out in the blueprint, um,Jennie: yeah,Andrew: I don't think she necessarily would have read Dracula.She might be familiar with the story, but she might not have, um, uh, have read, uh, Dracula itself.Jennie: Okay. So yeah, let's get to, let's get really clear on that. Mm-hmm. Because it's gonna really change. And for those listening. The ideal reader. Oftentimes people think it's just a throwaway part of the blueprint because they kind of can just picture, you know, generally who their reader is.I mean, first of all, no part of the blueprint is the throwaway. Uh, something really important can come from any one of these. So really go back to your ideal reader. And think about them in relationship to their story. ‘cause this [00:33:00] conversation reveals how drastically you would change the writing of this book, depending on your ideal reader's relationship to the, to Dracula.Andrew: Yeah.Jennie: And, and there's no right answer. Either answer's. Great. Right. So, um, so that's, I just put that on the list of, of things too, um, that you're gonna be thinking about. Um. So once you get that, so yeah, the understanding of of Van Healthy's re reputation in the universe right now is going to be the way that you bring your reader up to speed a little bit.Right? Like famous Vampire Hunter still doing his thing or, or. Famous vampire hunter, you know, shamed and, uh, not doing his thing. Um, that's, those are gonna tie [00:34:00] together,Andrew: right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.Jennie: And cement down the world that we're coming into, um, more.Andrew: Absolutely. No, I can, I can see how that will change things.Yeah.Jennie: Okay. So, um. We're not gonna have time to dig, to dig into this yet, but I just wanna touch on it so that, um, when you're doing this work, you can be thinking about, um, thinking about this piece, but the, um, there's a cause and effect trajectory that's obviously what the inside outline is. And at some really key places in yours, you miss an opportunity to to tie in.So we always want our protagonist to have agency to be making the [00:35:00] decisions that cause things to get worse or cause them to be in a worse position or, um, and, and there's several places in your inside outline where. Things just sort of happen, which is the plot, and then she sort of happens to be there.But if you understand better these parts of her and her connection to this, uh, the not her uncle now, uh, her, this guy, uh, and her connection to what's happened with her mother and those things, then we wanna use that to push the story. To push the, so the plot has to serve the story. So the things that happen are gonna push your character in ways they don't wanna be pushed to make decisions that are gonna then push them further and, and they're gonna get deeper and deeper each time.And [00:36:00] you have a murder mystery. So each murder, we wanna feel more and more as if. She is boxing herself in by what she does. By what she thinks. By what she believes, by what she wants. And the, the CLO is gonna squeeze her to the point where she asks to make a, a big decision, you know, comes, that's the climax, comes to that like, will I, in this case, um, confront.Uh, both the murderer and her father is kind of where it all ends, so,Andrew: yeah. Yeah.Jennie: You know, it's not gonna be just like, and now we arrive at a place where she confronts the people. It's gotta be like. Gut wrenching along the way. Right,Andrew: right.Jennie: So, um, there's a lot to say there, and I made some comments on the outline, which, which you'll see [00:37:00] sort of my thoughts and thinking there, but I actually think that this conversation we've had is gonna be the solution because the, the big question I had was, is it coincidental that Adriana is.These murders are sort of following her around and people think that it, she might be responsible. Is that coincidental or is there something real there? Yeah. Do you know the answer or not?Andrew: I, I, I'm, I've been thinking about that and I think there are ways that it's not entirely coincidental. I mean, obviously she's not causing the murders, but I think, I think yes, I think there are things that she does that prompts these.That prompts these women to become targets of the murderer.Jennie: That's what I hoped you were gonna say. Yeah, because that's what's gonna, that's like, it's, I think this was on the page and maybe you didn't realize it, but. [00:38:00] Being friends with Adriana is a little dangerous,right?Andrew: Yes. Yes. I think that could be, that could definitely be part of the part, part of the, part of the theme there. Yeah.Jennie: So that, that shouldn't, that shouldn't be coincidental. Well, and this is what's so, so great about the blueprint and showing it to a critique partner or a writing group or an editor or a book coach, is.Somebody else can say, do you see that you're doing this thing that's actually really cool? Or do you, do you see that you're not doing this? Like it's things are just revealed. So,Andrew: yeah. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely.Jennie: So let's just wrap this up. Your next iteration, you're gonna work on sharpening your point. You're gonna work on sharpening the super simple story so that the Dracula connection is clear.Dracula connection to your [00:39:00] protagonist is, is more clear and you're gonna under in order to do that. You're gonna understand then Helsing, the world that we live in and what his relationship of that world is 20 years after Dracula. What, what is happening with him? What is happening with the world? And and that's gonna help inform the connection between your.Protagonist in these things. And then I think you already answered the ideal reader, but just make sure that you're comfortable with that, that she's not a super fan. This is not a insider. Um, folks who know and love and read Dracula, it's, it's more someone like me. He was a little clueless. And then if you have time to dig into.How that all plays out in the cause and effect of the inside outline. That's, that's where I would go. [00:40:00] So it's, um, I had an agent, my first agent, way back in the day, used to say, run it through the typewriter one more time because we were actually writing on typewriter. Yeah. Right. Back in the day. And, uh, that's kind of what I feel, you know, with these ideas in mind, like, run it all through one more time and let, let it all flow through One more time.Um, and we'll see where it goes.Andrew: Excellent. No, this sounds good. This is, this is some good homework. I'm looking forward to, to digging into this now.Jennie: I know. I can't wait to see too, and I hope our listeners have enjoyed, uh, going along on this conversation and gotten some inspiration for what, how to pressure test your own, uh, blueprint.And if you're not doing the blueprint. Uh, also fine, but pressure test what you're writing. Uh, this is just a tool for doing that, but there's this kind of questioning and making sure that things are not [00:41:00] assumed. That's, that's the key, right? It's that you, you sort of make these assumptions, but we have to articulate them and pin them down so that we can use them to make a much better story.Well, thank you Andrew. Really thank you for being willing to, uh, expose yourself in this way. Come out from behind the mic, uh, share your journey. It's not easy to do that, and I appreciate it.Andrew: Well, it's, it's fun. Thank you for pushing me outside my comfort zone. Uh, I've really enjoyed this.Jennie: I have too. So, uh, for our list.Thanks for joining in. Now let's get back to work.Outro: The hashtag am writing podcast is produced by Andrew Perilla. Our intro music aptly titled Unemployed Monday was written and played by Max Cohen. Andrew and Max were paid for their time and their creative output because everyone [00:42:00] deserves to be paid for their work. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit amwriting.substack.com/subscribe

Hilary Berning - Gio's Garden On the Unrealistic Timelines of Insurance Companies: "It's a 6 to 9 month process just to get a wheelchair. I really need some way to get my son from point A to point B." Families with special needs children already have some challenges.  These families need help and some guidance on where they can get this help.  This is where Gio's Garden comes in. Gio's Garden is a one-of-a-kind therapeutic respite center based in Middleton, Wisconsin, and recently expanded to Sun Prairie, Wisconsin. Their essential mission: to provide safe, enriching respite care for children with special needs aged 0–7, giving parents the chance to take a break, run errands, or simply breathe. Hilary Berning shares the struggles many of these families face.  From finding a place to care for your child temporarily since you can't just leave your medically complex child with the teenager down the block. Gio's Garden fills that gap with one-on-one care, specially trained staff, and a joyful, home-like atmosphere. Their houses are filled with arts, crafts, sensory rooms, gym equipment, and caring people who “never like to say no” to a family in need. Listen as Hilary explains the needs and complexities of these children and their families and how Gio's Garden is a place that is doing all they can to help these children and their families. Enjoy! Visit at: https://giosgarden.org/ Sponsors: Live Video chat with our customers here with LiveSwitch: https://join.liveswitch.com/gfj3m6hnmguz Some videos have been recorded with Riverside: https://www.riverside.fm/?utm_campaign=campaign_5&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=rewardful&via=james-kademan   Podcast Overview: 00:00 "Local, Unique, Community Focused" 06:03 Supporting Families Through CLTS 08:49 Greek Life Fundraising Show 11:10 "Sanfilippo Syndrome Journey Shared" 13:51 "Growth, Funding, and Strategic Planning" 19:18 Franchise Expansion Plans 20:56 Inclusive Childcare and Respite Plan 25:14 Emergency Presidency Amid Crisis 27:07 "Sun Prairie Location Announcement" 30:07 "Navigating a Life-Changing Diagnosis" 35:42 Sun Prairie Studio Renovation Details 38:07 Wiseman Center Connection Insights 40:48 "Planning Ahead for Kids' Safety" 44:38 "New Podcast Venture Launch" 47:10 "Reinventing With Youthful Engagement" 51:00 Nonprofits: Vital, Challenging, Impactful 52:00 Supporting Local Nonprofits Podcast Transcription: Hilary Berning [00:00:00]: Um, because you have the big nationwide organizations, right? Make-A-Wish, Boys and Girls, like they're all over the nation. They've got nationwide people telling them what to do when providing all these things. And then you have organizations like mine, like there's no one else that does this. We are the only one that does it. We're doing it on our own. We are local. We're serving local people. All the money stays here and goes back to the kids. Hilary Berning [00:00:22]: People can really think that through a little bit where we don't have We are local, we're serving local, and we're doing good. Goal and focus on those nonprofits. James Kademan [00:00:35]: You have found Authentic Business Adventures, the business program that brings you the struggle stories and triumph and successes of business owners across the land. Downloadable audio episodes can be found on the podcast link from drawincustomers.com. We are locally underwritten by the Bank of Sun Prairie, and today we're welcoming slash preparing to learn from Hillary Berning of Gio's Garden. So Hillary, how is it going today? Hilary Berning [00:00:58]: I'm good. Thanks for having me. James Kademan [00:01:00]: So let's start with the foundation here. What is Gio's Garden? Hilary Berning [00:01:03]: So Gio's Garden, so we are a respite center. We are located in Middleton, which is our original location, and we recently just opened a new location in Sun Prairie. James Kademan [00:01:11]: Nice. Hilary Berning [00:01:11]: So what we do is we provide therapeutic respite for children with special needs from ages 0 to age 7. So respite means to take a break. So it's really hard for parents of special needs kids to get a break. James Kademan [00:01:23]: Mm-hmm. Hilary Berning [00:01:23]: Because you can't just leave your special needs child with the teenager down the street. So we provide that opportunity for them to come leave their child with us and they can go and have a break. James Kademan [00:01:33]: Nice. So when you say special needs, tell me the gamut there. Hilary Berning [00:01:36]: We will see, um, everyone with, from autism to cerebral palsy to diabetes, to babies who have had strokes in utero to rare genetic disorders. We have kids with seizure disorders, so we kind of really don't say no very often. There's a few higher-grade medical needs that we can't see, like if they would have a tracheostomy or something like that. But otherwise, we don't— our motto is we don't like to say no. James Kademan [00:02:04]: Fair. And what does the care look like? Because I imagine it's not just an empty room. Hilary Berning [00:02:09]: It isn't, no. So our original location in Middleton, it's a house. It's a 100-year-old house. But we have specific rooms set up for different activities. So we have a sensory room. A lot of our kids have sensory sensory issues. So it's a quiet, subdued room where they can go and have quiet time. We have a reading room. Hilary Berning [00:02:26]: We have an arts and craft room. We have a gym that has swings that hang from the ceiling and an indoor play structure that kids can play on. Wow. Um, in Middleton, we also have outdoor, um, fenced-in yards so kids can run around and we have a place, a play structure out there as well. James Kademan [00:02:42]: Okay. I imagine you need people to be there present, right? Hilary Berning [00:02:45]: Absolutely. Yes. James Kademan [00:02:46]: It sounds like you'd need a lot. Hilary Berning [00:02:47]: We need a lot of staff. Yeah. So we provide one-on-one care. Oh, you do? Oh, wow. For every child that's in our care, they have an adult with them. James Kademan [00:02:54]: Okay. Hilary Berning [00:02:55]: So we currently have, including our executive director, 6 full-time employees. And then we have around 24 part-time employees that kind of comes and goes depending on the semester. James Kademan [00:03:06]: Okay. Hilary Berning [00:03:06]: And then we have a ton of volunteers that work with us. We are blessed to be in the Madison area where we have 3 colleges essentially that we can pull from and a lot of students who are going into medical fields or educational fields or occupational therapy or recreational therapy who need experience working with children with special needs. So we're able to provide that opportunity for them. So we're lucky that we have a large pool of students to pull from. James Kademan [00:03:33]: That's amazing. Hilary Berning [00:03:34]: But also means we have a lot of turnover and their availability changes every semester. James Kademan [00:03:38]: So that's just the nature of students. Hilary Berning [00:03:40]: It's just the nature of the, the, our staff that we work with just because we working with students, but we're blessed to have them and we, we give to them just as much as they give to us. James Kademan [00:03:50]: So nice. Hilary Berning [00:03:50]: It's really great. James Kademan [00:03:52]: So I got a lot of questions for you. Hilary Berning [00:03:53]: Nice. James Kademan [00:03:53]: So I'm gonna try to keep on task somehow. How do you let the students know that you exist even as an opportunity for them? Hilary Berning [00:04:00]: So we are on like all the job boards, like through the university and we're well connected within the different disciplines in the universities at Edgewood and at UW and at, is it Madison College? MATC? I don't— sure. James Kademan [00:04:13]: Sounds good. Hilary Berning [00:04:13]: Yeah. Yeah. So we are heavily involved in word word just kind of has gotten out about us and the people. And there's a special program, especially at UW-Madison, where they can get— part of a class credit is to volunteer at organizations. So they know about us. So they send a lot of students our way as well. James Kademan [00:04:29]: Gotcha. I imagine there's an interview process. Hilary Berning [00:04:32]: There is. Yep. There is an interview process. It's not just like, hey, come on in. Yes. There's a background check that we put all of our employees through. And it all varies depending on if you're coming in as a volunteer basis or you're coming in as a paid employee. James Kademan [00:04:44]: Okay. Hilary Berning [00:04:44]: Because your level of Um, if you're coming in as a volunteer, you're kind of paired with a full-time or part-time paid staff member, um, versus we won't just have 6 volunteers and 6 kids in the house at once. We will have paid staff to kind of help balance with that. James Kademan [00:05:01]: All right, let's talk funding. Hilary Berning [00:05:03]: Funding is— with nonprofits, yes, it is. My life revolves around funding quite a bit. James Kademan [00:05:08]: With for-profits, it's a big deal. Hilary Berning [00:05:10]: It really is. Yes. James Kademan [00:05:11]: Tell me a story. The parents of the children, are they paying? Hilary Berning [00:05:15]: They, yes and no. So when we first, when they first started opening Gio's Garden back in 2012 is when they opened their doors. It was a small subset of parents that got together and be like, we need help, we need help. We have special needs kids and there's no one to help us. So they, the idea of Gio's Garden was born. It's named after Charlotte de Lassiter. She used to be on Channel 3 News and her husband, Ron, it's their son Gio. Okay.

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Life 3 Years After Stroke: Three years ago, Pete Rumple was in a hospital bed, weighing 337 pounds, unable to walk, unable to talk, and completely paralysed down his right side following a massive hemorrhagic stroke. He was on 17 medications and had just spent his first night as a wheelchair user. By his own admission, the first year was so dark that he didn’t want to live. Today, Pete does CrossFit every day, has lost 150 pounds, is off 15 of his 17 medications, and is about to launch a new business at 61 years old. This is what life 3 years after a stroke can look like and, more importantly, how Pete got there. The First Decision: Control What You Can Within days of his stroke, while still in the hospital, Pete made a choice. He couldn’t walk. He couldn’t use his right arm. Doctors were managing everything around him. But he could control one thing: what he ate. “I got to change everything,” he says. “And as I lay there, this was one thing I could control with all the things I couldn’t.” Pete reduced his intake to two or three bites of food per day. By the time he left the hospital 30 days later, he had lost 40 pounds. That single decision became the foundation of everything that followed. For anyone newly out of the hospital and feeling overwhelmed, this is perhaps the most important message: you don’t have to fix everything at once. Find one controllable. Start there. Books like Grain Brain by Dr David Perlmutter and Why We Get Sick by Benjamin Bikman are excellent starting points for understanding the role of nutrition in brain recovery; both are recommended in this episode.   Movement: From Water to CrossFit Pete’s physical recovery moved in deliberate stages. With right-side proprioception severely affected, his body couldn’t properly sense where it was in space land-based exercise felt impossible at first. The solution was water. “The water surrounds you,” Pete explains. “It’s easier to move with what we both have.” He spent nearly a year in the pool doing aquatic therapy, then transitioned to a gym with a personal trainer for four months, then, in April 2024, ditched his cane and started CrossFit. He now attends every day, with about 30% modification. The journey from wheelchair to CrossFit wasn’t fast, and it wasn’t linear. But it was intentional.   The Brain Science Behind Doing Hard Things One of the most fascinating parts of Pete’s recovery is how he used neuroscience to drive his progress. After watching a Huberman Lab episode featuring David Goggins, he learned about the anterior mid-cingulate cortex (AMCC), a region of the brain that grows and strengthens specifically when you do things that are difficult and unpleasant. “Everything I did not enjoy or created pain, I’m doing it.” This wasn’t masochism. It was a strategy. Pete began deliberately choosing the exercises, behaviours, and tasks he least wanted to do and watched his recovery accelerate as a result. His speech improved. His movement improved. His cognitive function came back faster. Bill adds important context here: when you visualise movement, your brain fires the same neural pathways as when you physically perform it. Pete used this daily, studying his CrossFit workout the night before, visualising each exercise, then arriving 30 minutes early to breathe and mentally rehearse before training. This is neuroplasticity working for you, not against you. The choice is yours: choose the hard that rewards you, or endure the hard that doesn’t.   Identity: Three Words That Changed Everything Beyond the physical, Pete’s recovery demanded a complete rebuild of who he was. An executive career was gone. Independence had been stripped away. The personality and habits that contributed to the stroke, such as overworking, overeating, and using alcohol to manage stress, needed to be replaced, not just removed. He approached this the way he’d approached business: with a framework. At any given time, Pete identifies three words that define who he is. Right now: resilient, consistent, and unafraid. “I try to be honest with myself and say, where am I now?” he explains. “And it may change, but it gives me something to triangulate toward.” This kind of identity-based self-management, knowing who you are deciding to be, not just what you are trying to do, is one of the most transferable lessons from Pete’s story. What Life 3 Years After Stroke Really Looks Like Pete’s neurologist, who once saw him quarterly, recently told him she doesn’t need to see him annually anymore. “We have not seen this kind of recovery before from what you had,” she said. He’s about to start a fractional leadership business with a former CFO. He does CrossFit every day. He sleeps well. He volunteers. He uses AI tools to stay sharp and curious. He is, as he puts it, “on the other side of it.” But he’s also clear-eyed about what’s ahead: returning to high-stakes work, managing the stressors that contributed to his stroke in the first place, and monitoring the potholes that come with re-entering a demanding professional world. “I realise that is a very real risk,” he says. “I’m going to test and learn.”   The Lily Pad Principle When asked how to frame the journey for people still in the early stages, Pete offers one of the most useful images in this entire conversation: “It’s like lily pads across the lake. Get to a lily pad, then get to the next one. Don’t worry about boiling the ocean. Don’t worry about what it’s going to be in months or a year. Step by step. Keep pushing.” That is life 3 years after stroke, not a finish line, but a direction. And for Pete Rumple, the direction is forward.   Want more stories like this? Read Bill’s book recoveryafterstroke.com/book | Support the show: patreon.com/recoveryafterstroke   Disclaimer This blog is for informational purposes only and does not constitute medical advice. Please consult your doctor before making any changes to your health or recovery plan. From Wheelchair to CrossFit: Life 3 Years After a Massive Hemorrhagic Stroke Pete Rumple lost 150 lbs, ditched the wheelchair, and now does CrossFit at 61. Here’s what life 3 years after a stroke really looks like. Turnto.ai InterviewPeter Rumple Interview EP 332Turnto.ai discount code: Bill10Highlights: 00:00 Introduction to Life 3 Years After Stroke Recovery Journey05:31 Physical Recovery and Rehabilitation11:05 Dietary Changes and Weight Loss15:42 Medication Management and Health Improvements21:29 The Role of Visualisation in Recovery26:03 Embracing Discomfort for Growth33:31 The Power of Hard Work and Persistence40:53 The Journey Back to Work50:48 Navigating Health Challenges56:25 Resilience and Consistency in Recovery01:04:38 Proactive Health Management01:15:11 Defining Identity Through Resilience Transcript: Introduction to Life 3 Years After Stroke Recovery Journey Pete Rumple (00:00)And Bill, I want to take a second and plug your book back in the first ⁓ the first session I did with you, I referenced a number of things you taught me through the podcast that I did to make to start building momentum like the cooking dinner every day was the to do. That was your mission. Yeah. so much of what I’ve learned from you, the podcast and what’s inevitably in the book was a great starting point for me. And I built my, my stuff on top of it, but it was really great to stand on your shoulders and get, and get that lift. Bill Gasiamis (00:44)Hi everyone, before we get into Pete’s story and you are definitely going to want to hear this one. I want to share something I’ve been using myself that I genuinely think could help a lot of you. It’s called turn2.ai and it’s an AI health sidekick that keeps you up to date with personalized updates every single week. Did you know there were over 800 new things published every week related to stroke? Research, expert discussions. patient stories, clinical trials, events. It’s an enormous amount of information. Turn2 finds what’s most relevant to you and delivers it straight to your inbox. I use it myself and it’s genuinely my favorite tool for 2026 for staying across what’s new in stroke recovery. It’s low cost and completely patient first. You can try it for free. And when you’re ready to subscribe, you can use my code, BILL10, at turn2.ai slash sidekick slash stroke to get a discount. I earn a small commission if you use that link at no extra cost to you. And that helps keep this podcast going. Also, if you haven’t yet, pick up a copy of my book, head to recoveryafterstroke.com/book. Real stories, real tools. The same stuff Pete and I talk about today and a huge thank you to everyone supporting us on Patreon and in the other ways that you support the show and myself. You’re the reason this content stays free for the people who need it You can support the show at patreon.com/recoveryafterstroke. Right. Let’s get into Pete Rumple’s story. Massive hemorrhagic stroke. Wheelchair couldn’t walk or talk 337 pounds three years later. He does CrossFit every day So you’re gonna want to hear this one. Let’s get into it Bill Gasiamis (02:35)Pete Rumpel, hello, welcome back. Pete Rumple (02:38)Hey Bill, it’s great to see you again. Bill Gasiamis (02:41)Great to see you too, my friend. ⁓ Last time we met was about a year ago. And this is gonna be a slightly different episode because we’re gonna talk about what things were like then and then what they’re like now, just so that we can paint a picture for people about how recovery has gone, what happened in the last 12 or so months. And in the previous episode, by the way, that was episode… 338 or something. And now we’re nearing episode 394, 395. will be. So I’ve been pretty consistent. So it means that it’s been over a year because I try and release one episode a week, et cetera. So it’d be a really good thing to do for people is to give them a bit of a guide of. some of the setbacks, some of the challenges, some of the things that have changed, improved. And now everyone’s different, okay? So this is Pete’s version. And what we’re hoping to do is kind of inspire hope, Pete, right? We wanna give people hope that things can change and improve. And even if it’s slower for you than other people, there can be a reward for putting in a lot of effort, hard work, re-educating yourself about what it means to live healthily. and all that kind of thing. And give us just a little bit of an insight because there’ll be a link to the original video where you can find out Pete’s complete story, but give us a little bit of an insight into the stroke, the day that it happened, what it was like. Pete Rumple (04:24)Okay, you bet Bill it was about 38 months ago. The stroke, was, it was a massive hemorrhagic stroke. ⁓ eight months in a wheelchair had to learn to talk again, walk again, all that. And, ⁓ so we had, ⁓ had the call about a little over a year and a half through it. And then, ⁓ now I’m further through it and, it’s gone amazing. I’m so lucky. So whatever we want to dig into that’ll be great. Bill Gasiamis (05:04)So your deficits were your right arm wasn’t working properly. Initially you weren’t able to walk. You were wheelchair bound for nearly six months. ⁓ So what are the physical deficits like now? What has changed? What has improved? And how did that go? what were the things that you did that helped you improve in that way? Physical Recovery and Rehabilitation Pete Rumple (05:31)Yeah. So Bill, I, um, it was my right side that I lost, which I forget what the term is, but, uh, it was my whole right side. So, um, when I, what, what I did that was important is first of all, totally overhauled my diet. And I, um, I had lost about 150 pounds. Um, I then, when I started about a year into it, I started, um, doing aquatics, the water aerobics to start dealing with their proprioception and the, um, and just movement. couldn’t, I couldn’t do that in, the ether. I couldn’t do it in the air. had to do it with the water. Bill Gasiamis (06:27)Okay, why is that? Because that’s interesting, because I have a similar problem with proprioception. My left side kind of doesn’t know where it is. There’s not enough information telling it where it is. And sometimes it overcompensates and I get off balance, etc. It feels strange. In the water, I also calmly, I felt calmly different, like I felt ⁓ more supported, even though the water wasn’t really supporting me. How was it for you? Pete Rumple (06:56)You’re absolutely right, Bill, because the water surrounds you, right? So it’s easy to move in the water with what we both have. So I spent almost a year in the water. then I started to, then what I did is I moved to a gym with someone helping me work out for about four months. And then in April, so almost a year ago, in April, I got rid of my cane and I went to CrossFit. And so now I do CrossFit every day. And that was really ugly at first, Bill, and I had to do a lot of modification. But now I modify probably 30%. But Bill Gasiamis (07:42)Uh-huh. Pete Rumple (07:54)row bike. can’t run yet. I’m still walking, but I’m getting ready to go to the beach and practice running for about a month. Bill Gasiamis (08:05)Okay, where in the head was the hemorrhagic stroke? Where did it happen? Do you know? Pete Rumple (08:14)The where, ⁓ I forget. Bill Gasiamis (08:18)That’s all right. It’s not important to remember. So also then, ⁓ when you had the hemorrhagic stroke, how was it rectified or resolved? Did they operate? What did they do? Pete Rumple (08:30)They didn’t have to operate. Bill Gasiamis (08:32)Uh-huh. Pete Rumple (08:33)They just, I got in there, they did things to make sure the bleeding stopped, ⁓ but it was no operation. Bill Gasiamis (08:45)what caused the bleed? Was it ⁓ high blood pressure as a result of your weight? Pete Rumple (08:50)It was a number of things, was high blood pressure, it was a lot of stress. They have a scale bill called the Holmes Raw Scale, Holmes with an L and Raw, R-A-H-E, where you can, it has like 42 major stress events. If you score under 150, you’re fine, 150, 300s. pretty bad and then over 300 is devastating like it’s predicts a major stroke or heart attack within a year. And I was 360 on that scale. I’d gone through the divorce, I had the kids, I had a job change, you name it, I had it. ⁓ Weight was not good, drank too much. So that was my wake up call. if you will, which was severe. And it’s been, it’s great now. Bill Gasiamis (09:53)Yeah, so your arm was completely flaccid, I think, when we spoke last. So where is it now? Pete Rumple (10:03)I can do everything with it. This is the, so I can lift and I’m lifting more weight, not where I was, but about probably 50%. I’m doing pull-ups with the arm and my legs are, I’ve worked them a lot. I’m very strong there. So it’s getting there. Bill Gasiamis (10:25)Okay, cool. When we spoke, you mentioned that in hospital alone, you’d lost 40 pounds. That kind of makes sense. A lot of people say that things change in hospital food relation. When you’re unwell, ⁓ how you consume food completely changes, as well as how hospitals ⁓ treat people with regards to the food, how it’s terrible, how often you get to eat. and how accessible it is. So, but earlier, a little earlier, you said that you lost 150 pounds all up. Dietary Changes and Weight Loss Pete Rumple (11:05)Yeah, Bill. So when I was in the hospital, which was obvious, I was there 30 days from the stroke. And that was where I had to make a choice. And it was like, if am I going to try and get better or not. And so what I did is I ate two to three bites of food a day. That was it because I was in a wheelchair, Bill, I couldn’t move. So coming out 40 pounds lighter was ⁓ a lot of work and a lot of fasting, if you will. Bill Gasiamis (11:42)Why did you decide that that was what you needed to do? How did you conclude that? I know I’m gonna be in hospital. I’ve had a hemorrhagic stroke. There’s nothing else I can do. What I’m gonna do is fast and stop eating food. How does that? Pete Rumple (12:01)was a first step, Bill. Absolutely. was like, I got to change everything. And so as I lay here, this is one thing I can control with all the things I can’t. Bill Gasiamis (12:14)In hospital though, most people in hospital don’t have that realization. I mean, that would have been days out from a hemorrhagic stroke. They’re telling you all these things. Like how did you get to that conclusion? Were you cognizant of needing to do that earlier before you got sick and then you thought, well, now I have to do it or was it an aha moment of some other kind? Pete Rumple (12:40)No, you’re absolutely right. And it was something I knew was getting out of control, Bill. And I couldn’t, I couldn’t resolve it. It was just, it was really tough. And I’m like, this is it. I mean, this is the ultimate wake up call. The other one, Bill, was I had, when I came into the hospital, I was on 17 meds. I now have two. and I’m at 20 milligrams and I’m probably off those in the next four to five months. So it’s been a long programmatic diet, nutrition, health, and it’s been three years. I mean, it’s not insignificant for sure. Bill Gasiamis (13:27)⁓ What was the 17 medications treating or or or managing? Pete Rumple (13:37)I think Bill, it’s almost like, like, what do you do with this guy? You got to throw everything at him to keep on going. I don’t think it would have been 17 for very long. It was probably stop gap measures. Some were pain, but even the pain bill second day. I said, I want no more pain meds, take them away. And it was brutal, right? Cause you know, the way you feel and the, my scapula, my legs, was, it was awful, but I was like, I found my way here, I got to find my way out and let me get off as much as I can and start the pilgrimage back. Bill Gasiamis (14:20)Before the stroke, would you have been somebody who would have taken a device to change your diet? Pete Rumple (14:28)I would have taken every hack I could have, Bill, before the stroke. Bill Gasiamis (14:34)Anything to avoid doing the hard work? that what you mean? Yes. Pete Rumple (14:38)Yes, sir. And look, I was always a hard worker. And I would work out and do stuff. But this is a whole other level. This became life or death. I mean, because you know, the stats bill, like, when I looked at the stats that about 75 % of people are gone in year one, there’s 25%, especially hemorrhagic, 25 % at the time. 25 % a month later, 25 % at the end of the year, another 20 at the end of year two. I’m like, I’m gonna go through all this and then I still have so little chance. So I just went for it and I went really hardcore. Bill Gasiamis (15:25)Did you eat, drink too much to manage emotional ⁓ stress, challenges? What do you think was behind it? Or was it just bad habits? Or did you think you were bulletproof? What was the reason behind it? Medication Management and Health Improvements Pete Rumple (15:42)Everything you just said, Bill, everything you just said. Yeah. I mean, it’s everything, right? You start justifying bad behavior. You have a reason for why things happen. And I just like, even when I try to lose weight, though, I might lose a couple pounds, but then I eat again and what I was eating, how I was eating. So in that first year, I went super deep on nutrition. and how your body works. And I went from, at the stroke I was 337 pounds. And then when I did my podcast with you, I was 180. Bill Gasiamis (16:25)Yeah, well, ⁓ one of the books that I’ll mention to people, you might have read different ones, and that’s cool. But the one that always comes to mind that I always recommend is Grain Brain by Dr. David Pelmutter. So if you’re in the very early stages of recovery and you want to make some changes like Pete did, read or listen to the book Grain Brain by Dr. David Pelmutter, and then ⁓ read a book called ⁓ Why We Get Sick. ⁓ I’m going to quickly do a search on ⁓ online because I keep forgetting the person’s name. ⁓ And what it’s going to do is going to why we get sick by Benjamin Bickman. And what it’s going to do is going to give people an insight into the. ⁓ I one of the things is the first book is the food that you can avoid and stop eating and the reasons why and how they benefit the brain and then ⁓ why we get sick is an insight into, in fact, exactly that why we get sick. so that you have an understanding of what might have got you into that real bad state. And then also before that, ⁓ the food component of it, because those two things, if you know why you got somewhere and then you know what the trigger was, what the thing was that made you get there, so the food, for example, then you’ve got a great foundation for taking the next step forward ⁓ and reversing it. Pete Rumple (18:02)Absolutely. Bill Gasiamis (18:04)and improving your health and improving your diet, losing weight and decreasing your risks of heart attack, stroke, cancer, all that kind of stuff. ⁓ So I love that you got curious. That’s what I did. I was in hospital reading and watching YouTube videos about how I’m going to recover, how I’m going to overcome things, all sorts of stuff like that. And it was… Pete Rumple (18:19)I remember. Bill Gasiamis (18:31)in a situation where control is given over to medics, doctors, surgeons, all that kind of stuff, you feel like you’re a little bit of a, you’re just floating in the wind and you’re not really stable and you don’t have an anchor point, right? So when you, if you want to feel like you’re a little more anchored, what you could do is you could take control of the controllables and Nutrition is one of those controllables and it doesn’t cost you any extra. You don’t have to spend money. Pete Rumple (19:04)You’re absolutely right, Bill. It’s a huge point. By the way, there’s a great app, and I know there are many, but there’s a great app called Yuka, Y-U-K-A. You can scan any barcode in the store and it will tell you the score and what’s wrong with it and the amount of food I was eating that was, especially in the U.S., Bill, heavily processed, additives, dyes. It’s like toxic. And so you can scan it and know what’s really in it. And it tells you what’s good, what’s bad. And it was a huge help. Bill Gasiamis (19:44)Yeah. So we’re going to have some of these links in the show notes for anyone who wants to find them. I’ll put a link to the books. I’ll put a link to Pete’s previous episode. We’ll put a link to that Yuka app. Pete, that’s your homework. You have to send me that link when we’re chatting. ⁓ When you say you’ve lost 150 pounds, like that is 50 kilograms. That is almost two-thirds of my weight. Well, it’s actually, yeah, it’s about two-thirds of my weight. That means that if I lost 50 pounds, I would just be a bag of bones. Pete Rumple (20:30)Well, and Bill, I was a bigger guy to begin with. have a big frame and I played a lot of US football, American football. So I had a lot of weight to lose, Bill, and it’s gone now. And I’m back up to about 205 and it’s all muscle life, about a 32 inch waist now. really, really fit and I go for it. And by the way, by the way, I want to make one point to all listeners that took a long time, Bill, like between being the wheelchair for eight months and then getting the pool. It took a long time. I used to go and sit and watch people work out to just reacquaint myself. Bill Gasiamis (21:03)How old are you? The Role of Visualisation in Recovery Pete Rumple (21:29)what it looked like and inspire myself. It has been a long road, but my goodness, is absolutely I’m on the other side of it now. Cause as I had said in the first podcast, the first 18 months, I did not want to live, especially year one, ⁓ immense amount of pain. had been a successful executive that was gone. Like it was really really rough. And so now it’s beautiful. And I want people to know that because it it’s so worth it. Delay gratification, you learn a lot about it. And it’s ⁓ Yeah. Bill Gasiamis (22:14)I love that delayed gratification, but also you went into a gym watching other people train when you couldn’t train, just so you can be around it and familiarize yourself with it again. That’s really interesting. That’s probably one thing I’ve never done is go to a gymnasium and watch other people train. It’s a bit creepy Pete. Pete Rumple (22:32)Yeah, it is. It’s weird. And people would look at me like, what’s he doing? And by and by the way, Bill, I did a lot of work on how to breathe, which was really helpful, how to how to manifest and to really sit and get mentally so I go even today, Bill, I go in a half hour before my workout to work on breathing and visualizing my exercises, because I get the the list of what my workout is before I get there the night before. So I study and I prepare and then go. Bill Gasiamis (23:10)What I love about visualizing is that if you visualize the brain actually fires off the exact same neuron and pathways that it does if you actually physically do that thing. And there’s been studies in the past that have showed that you can take an average guy like me and you can make them watch a video of somebody doing archery, for example, and you can ⁓ take them through a number of repetitions of this person, this champion doing archery. And just with that information and the visualization techniques later, you can take somebody who has basically never shot ⁓ an arrow through a bow and you can get them to a certain level of competence far more rapidly than you would have if you just got that person out of a crowd and sent to him. Have you ever shot an arrow? If they said no and they took the shot, they probably wouldn’t be able to do it as well as the person who was trained by just watching what the other person, the champion was doing. And when I was in hospital wanting to walk again, I’m sitting in my bed between sessions because I had a wheelchair as well. And I was visualizing myself doing the perfect walk, what the perfect walk would look like. And then I would take myself later to ⁓ therapy where I would be walking and I would be trying to replicate what I was seeing in my head so that we could get a similar result. And of course at the beginning, your leg is now doing it physically and it needs to catch up to the brain. The brain has ⁓ the pathway, but the leg needs to catch up. So then what the leg does is it goes, this feels a bit weird or this is a bit strange or this is not how I expected it. But it has a reference point for where to get to and how to do the perfect step, right? And then you’re closer to the perfect step than you were if you were just relying on therapists to ⁓ train you through that. Pete Rumple (25:22)You’re absolutely right, Bill. And the brain is amazing. Look, it can work for you or against you depending on what you’re thinking and how you’re doing things. And it was really amazing, Bill, because as I built my capability through CrossFit, it was amazing how my brain would start to take over. Like I wasn’t sure, but my brain was already, I got it, and so grew. It started carrying me and just getting it done. It’s amazing. Bill Gasiamis (25:58)Yeah, yeah. Embracing Discomfort for Growth But how did you know to do that? That’s the thing that I’m interested in understanding because I didn’t know the guy before stroke didn’t know about doing like magic like this. know, how do you, I don’t know, like, can you explain how you found yourself in that situation? Cause I can’t, people go to me like, well, how did you know to do that? Or how did you do that? And I’m like, I don’t know what happened, but something clicked. that made me stumble onto, discover, find all the necessary tools that I needed to get me to the next stage. I’ve never been able to do that before and I can do that now. Pete Rumple (26:46)Yep, me too, Bill, me too. And you know what? I think it’s how desperate we are for answers. And especially you can read all these blogs about what doesn’t work and what’s a waste of time, but you find the nuggets and you go for it. Here’s a great one, Bill. And I’ll send this in the link. Andrew Huberman, he runs a podcast called Huberman Lab. He had David Goggins on and he purposely waited for Goggins to share with him the research around the AMCC, which is the anterior mid-cruciate cortex, which is a part of the brain. And when you do things that are hard and you don’t enjoy it, that part of your brain grows and gets stronger. So I sat there, Bill, and I’m like, well, damn, if I can start to make my brain stronger, I’m going to do it. So I did all the stuff I hate to do. And I started doing it. And I started even faster, talking better, walking better, and really doing everything I did not like to do. And he even brings up the point when he describes it. He brings up that if you like running every day, It doesn’t work. But if you hate running and you have to go run, it works and it makes sure and make, they’ve learned so much that was, that was about three to four years ago. They found it, but this is a massive find in the brain. And I started using it, Bill. And what I started to do was everything I did not enjoy or created pain. I’m like, I’m doing it. And it took me from averting it to leaning into it. And it was amazing. it’s, you’d think it’s BS, it’s not. And Huberman, you know, he works at Stanford. He knows his stuff. It was really, really impactful. Bill Gasiamis (29:03)Yeah, it’s about being comfortable being uncomfortable, isn’t it? Like it’s realizing that you’re probably not killing yourself by paying in a little bit of pain exercising. also, yeah. Pete Rumple (29:16)And Bill, I will just say, I did a very good job for the first time in my life of listening to my body. So I go hard, I push, but when I wasn’t feeling it or didn’t feel right, I take the day, relax, and then come back stronger next. Bill Gasiamis (29:38)I want to pause there for a second because what Pete just described is exactly the kind of thing I wrote about in my book. The idea that the obstacle is the path, the doing the hard stuff in recovery. If you haven’t grabbed the copy yet, it’s called the unexpected way that a stroke became the best thing that happened. You can find it at recoveryafterstroke.com/book. The link is in the show notes and in the YouTube description. So let’s get packed. to Pete. Bill Gasiamis (30:08)Yeah, yeah, agreed. And it’s important to listen to your body after a stroke, because you don’t want to make things worse, especially when you’re still healing and still recovering and you’re still fragile, you know, there’s a lot of things that you need to take into consideration. However, being uncomfortable and being comfortable with that is really a good skill to master. ⁓ It is, ⁓ it reminds me of the saying that we hear that’s often attributed to the old great Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius, which is the obstacle is the way, you know, when you get to something that’s really hard, you go for it, because that’s what you’re to be. That’s the purpose of the obstacle. It’s to overcome it, to find the way around it, under it, over it, through it, whatever it is. And Goggins is a scary guy. He’s a scary guy, because he runs without, without cartilage in his knees or something. I don’t know what he’s missing. but he shouldn’t be able to run, he shouldn’t be running and somehow he still runs. I think his version of running is a little toxic. I think he’s just a slight too far, ⁓ but nonetheless, it’s still proof of ⁓ what you’re capable of and how much people can push and go beyond their comfort zone. And if you’ve never pushed beyond your comfort zone, there’s no better time to do it. You really have to do it now because you want to activate the right neuroplasticity. You don’t want to activate negative neuroplasticity, which rewires your brain to be more comfortable, less willing to do hard things. ⁓ And therefore, you get the results of that. You get the decrease in your recovery or the ⁓ overcoming of your deficits. So I appreciate that whole ⁓ mentality of finding what’s hard and you’re probably in the right place. That’s probably what you need to do. Pete Rumple (32:07)Absolutely right, Bill. And I agree with everything you said. And look, I love Goggins, but it’s not to be like a warrior like him. The point is, like with Huberman, it was cool because Goggins thinks that way so much. He wanted to launch the foundational research with Goggins there with him. He purposely waited. So it was pretty cool. Bill Gasiamis (32:35)Yeah. And that that’s the thing, right? It’s like you get rewarded for doing hard things. ⁓ Stroke is hard. And if you ⁓ take the easy route, the comfortable route, the hard part of your stroke remains hard. Like it doesn’t get better. If you choose the other hard, the recovery Pete Rumple (32:59)right. Bill Gasiamis (33:04)benefits that you get from choosing hard of exercise, the hard of changing your diet, the hard of changing your mindset, et cetera. Like then that version of hard gets you a reward that is beneficial. The other hard just gets you more suffering. And that’s the hard you wanna avoid. Suffering without purpose. Well, suffering for a purpose gets you a payoff. The Power of Hard Work and Persistence Pete Rumple (33:31)That’s right. That’s exactly right, Bill. And look, with the, when you put it all together between the diet, though, increasingly working out, going after the deficits, all that, day by day, painful, hard, depressing, but you start looking three months, six months, a year later, you’re like, you start building your will and your ability. to do things you did not think you could do, and then it starts feeding on itself, and it becomes so powerful. Bill Gasiamis (34:09)Yeah, that’s my experience too. ⁓ Somebody put it in my head that I should start a podcast 10 years ago. It’s been 14 years since my first stroke this month, February, 14 years. It’s just gone like that. And then about three years in, a friend of mine said, should start a podcast type of thing. So I did. And it has been more than 10 years that I’ve been doing this podcast. ⁓ And I never thought that I’d be doing a podcast, let alone for 10 years. We’re talking about at the beginning, not a lot of episodes because I was too unwell to put a lot of episodes out. it’s ramped up now in the last four or five years, doing an episode a week, most weeks. And then the other thing I never ended up, I never thought I’d end up doing is writing a book here. Here’s the plug for the book. Pete Rumple (35:01)love it. I love it. Bill Gasiamis (35:03)The title is mental, like it’s the unexpected way that a stroke became the best thing that happened. ⁓ But the book is exactly the things that you’ve said. And I thought initially when I discovered those things about my book that I needed to put in my book, I thought that I was rediscovering these for the first time. Like at the very beginning, diets, ⁓ mindset, ⁓ exercise, sleep. ⁓ ⁓ meditation, hanging around other people who are positive, all that kind of stuff, doing stuff for other people, ⁓ like volunteering, that kind of thing. I thought I was discovering these things ⁓ for the first time ever, but turns out these are things that humans have always done. That’s what they default to. They default to all of these things when it’s necessary, and that’s where they get lost from. They kind of move away from there because they get diverted from there, from say, marketing or advertising or what somebody else is doing or through a lack of ⁓ focus from being distracted from work, from relationship issues, whatever the situation is. I didn’t write anything different in my book than has been written in the hundreds and thousands of books on this topic that have come before it. I just reorganized that and set it in my own words. But the reality is, is this is what people do when they’re trying to recover. They default back to the bare basics and they’re things that you can implement without ⁓ spending any extra money buying a course or anything like that. Of course, you might need to read it in a book for the first time to remind you or you might need to hear it on a YouTube video, but the reality is, is that nothing new in this book. Pete Rumple (36:51)And Bill, I want to take a second and plug your book because I have not read it yet. But back in the first ⁓ the first session I did with you, I referenced a number of things you taught me through the podcast that I did to make to start building momentum like the cooking dinner every day was the to do. That was your mission. Yeah. so much of what I’ve learned from you, the podcast and what’s inevitably in the book was a great starting point for me. And I built my, my stuff on top of it, but it was really great to stand on your shoulders and get, and get that lift. Bill Gasiamis (37:38)Yeah, isn’t it weird? Like it was just one thing, but it was the most important one thing. My whole world revolved around that. If I could put dinner on the table for the family in any capacity, it didn’t have to be like a five star meal or three courses or anything like that. It just had to be dinner. If I could do that, then that was kind of how I rehabilitated myself. I needed to be healthy enough, good enough, fit enough, have enough energy to just put a meal on the table for everyone when they came home from. work. was such a it’s such a it was it was important for many reasons. But it was also what I didn’t realize the underlying benefits that it was creating, which were the ones that ⁓ I noticed later after Pete Rumple (38:25)Yep. And you were re-engaging and you were pushing yourself. And I remember you go to the store to buy the stuff you needed sometimes. like all that stuff, Bill, when I look at the beginning, I couldn’t watch a TV for over a year. I couldn’t listen and did not listen to music for two years. It was, and now I’m like back in the fold, but it’s the push, the push, the push and just, you know, listening to the body, but going for it all the time. Bill Gasiamis (39:03)Yeah, exposure, like exposure, exposure, exposure, small, then larger, then more and more. I remember going to the stores to the local mall here, and we call it a shopping center, and parking the car, and then not being able to remember where I parked the car, walking around the entire car park, and talking to my brother, and going to him, he rang me just out of blue and I said to him, he goes, what are you doing? I said, I’m walking around the car park. He what are you doing that for? That’s because I don’t know where my car is. I’ve been looking for it for half an hour and I’ve got no idea where it is. I parked it and I just got no idea where. I don’t know which car park. I don’t know where I came in from. I don’t know what level it was on. And I was just walking around the car park talking to my brother, just telling him, I came and got a few things, but now I can’t get back to my car. Pete Rumple (39:55)Yeah, and there’s definitely you know bill once I got out of the darkness There’s definitely some really funny stories That that happened especially like the way The way I would walk people would see me I might be in a restaurant and i’m going to the bathroom and they think i’m drunk Yeah, and they’re like making fun of him like hey i’m not drunk, but ⁓ I get you know, I’m all right, I got it. And they’d be like horrified and I’d just start laughing. It was funny, but you gotta have some fun with it too, you know? Bill Gasiamis (40:34)Absolutely, you have to, you gotta laugh. you don’t laugh, well, it’s gonna be difficult time. You, ⁓ I remember when we spoke last time, you mentioned about trying to get back to work. ⁓ How did that go? Was it successful? Did you have some challenges? What was going back to work like? The Journey Back to Work Life 3 Years After Stroke Pete Rumple (40:53)So Bill, I’m gonna start back in June. I’ve done some projects, work projects, but I have not officially started working, but I’m going to. I’m starting a business with a close friend of mine, my former CFO, and we’re gonna start a new business. Bill Gasiamis (41:18)Tell me about the new business. What is it about? Can you share anything about it? Pete Rumple (41:22)Yeah, it’s called fractional leadership bill will probably go to companies that are ⁓ getting funded, trying to grow. They got a good idea. They can’t afford the people they need. So you basically it’s less consulting. It’s more you’re operating it for them and you work with multiple customers and it’s called fractional leadership is becoming a really pretty popular model. And, ⁓ and also for companies that have that have their revenue is stalled or shrinking, get them turned around. That was my background. My background was ⁓ running chief revenue officer. So everything that drives revenue in a company and I was a CEO twice. Bill Gasiamis (42:06)Uh-huh. Soon. Did you have a specific industry that you worked in? Pete Rumple (42:23)Yet a lot of times I call it TMT for telecom media and tech so tech companies and media and That kind of stuff Rosetta Stone was his language learning company. I was I ran all our institutional business education government and and ⁓ Corporate Bill Gasiamis (42:49)Wow, what a challenge. mean, technology is changing so rapidly. ⁓ I Pete Rumple (42:55)love it, Bill. And look, I’m sorry, I just had to make this point and not forget it. That was another thing I’ve done, Bill is I’ve gone heavy into AI. And I did it, not just because it’s the buzzword. But I’m like, Hey, if I’m going through this process, if I’m retraining my brain, why not try to get good at stuff that I either didn’t do or need to know. And it’s been so rewarding, Bill. Bill Gasiamis (43:24)out. Pete Rumple (43:25)It’s just crazy. Like AI, use chat chat, GBT, and it’s like my, my best friend. now work with chat daily and it’s amazing how the tech technology works. Not only can it be really helpful for figuring things out and having a partner, but it also remembers things about you in how it builds the profile. So it’ll basically say, Pete, don’t forget this, this, and this. And it’s awesome. It’s really killer. Bill Gasiamis (44:02)So here comes another plug, Pete. Okay, so this is not a sponsor, but it’s something that I truly believe in, okay? Because the person who contacted me, A, is an Australian, B, is a mother, ⁓ C, is a mother of two children with cerebral palsy. And she was looking for solutions to all the challenges that they faced as a family, especially to help her children, right? parent would do. So then ⁓ she used to do research like you and me jump on the computer, do some research, find out about all the things that ⁓ she needed to know with regards to what was most current in cerebral palsy right now. And she’s the struggle because ⁓ imagine like the time that it takes when you have a stroke brain to research, read, comprehend, determine whether Pete Rumple (45:01)We know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Bill Gasiamis (45:04)whether or not that is applicable. Okay, that’s not applicable. Put that to the side, do another search. And then also going to doctors and researchers and all these other people and saying to them, what about this? What about that? And then them not being aware of anything that was new because they’re too swamped. They’ve got a massive workload. They don’t have time to be up to date with all the research, right? And this is a hundred percent a full on plug. I’m not apologizing for that. However, what this lady did, Jess from turn2.ai, I have a link to her interview as well, because I interviewed her, is she created an ⁓ AI that goes and does the research, the searching for you, and then sends you an email every week with everything new in your particular topic, for example, stroke. And then it tells you, I found seven, nine, 10 things for you this week that are new on stroke. It could be a podcast. It could be a research document. could be ⁓ whatever it is. It could be a book. It could be anything. It just finds it and sends you that information. And as your recovery continues, right, ⁓ what happens is ⁓ you might say, okay, now is there any information about food related to stroke recovery and healing the brain? And then it adds that to the search list. And then it comes back at the end of the next week with all the new information from food and brain. And then also whatever it was that you previously prompted it to find you. And it just keeps finding information and you build it and you build it and you build it. And then next week you get interested in meditation and you type, what can you tell me about meditation and healing the brain? And then it’s going to bring you all that information to your inbox. I spent hours and hours and days and days trying to find information about what I needed to know about stroke recovery. And when I found that little piece of paper, I had to go through the rabbit hole. I had to go down the rabbit hole and try and find ⁓ where ⁓ where it kind of where the exit point was where it led to so that I can discover whether I need to implement this, do this. So this just saves so much time and the guys are selling it for two bucks a week. Like you can get a month free and two, and then after that it’s two bucks a week just to find and do all the searching for you and bring you specific and relevant stuff. And we’re talking about scientifically relevant and specific like PubMed articles, like scientifically proven stuff, not what Bill ⁓ concocted up in his bedroom. you know, in suburban Melbourne, like proper things. So I love that you said that you’ve turned to AI. I’ve been using chat as well. Chat helps me with so many things, but what’s important is to learn how to interact with it. And that’s another, that’s another thing, another skill to discover. And it’s important that we jump on the bandwagon. AI is not going away. You need to learn about it, how to interact with it, and how to use it to benefit you and decrease the amount of time it takes to do something and get to recovery. Pete Rumple (48:37)You’re absolutely, absolutely right, Bill. I mean, it is, and even if you just use it for basic stuff to begin with, and you start learning how to create the right prompts to get the kind of answers you’re looking for, it’s a great skill. And the biggest thing is not being afraid and leaning into it. Bill Gasiamis (49:00)Yeah, not bad. Well, there’s nothing to be afraid of. They can get them all for free. At the beginning, you can get a free subscription. It doesn’t cost anything. And it’s just as useful. Perfect for that early training kind of phase in your chat, in your chat, JBT kind of discovery. There’s also Claude, there’s also the Elon Musk one. There’s hundreds of them now. Yeah, there’s heaps of them now, right? So I really encourage people to do that because If you ask it one question like, you know, what is one of the most ⁓ best books that I can read for, we’ll call it nutrition for nutrition and stroke recovery. That’s just going to decrease the amount of time it takes to find those books and bring that to you. Jump on Amazon, find it, get it sent to your house. ⁓ So I think it’s a great time for people. and it’s never been a better time to recover from a stroke. I mean, it’s a shit ⁓ group to become a part of at the beginning and it’s difficult and it’s painful. But if somebody has a stroke today compared to a stroke 30 years ago. Pete Rumple (50:17)⁓ my goodness. Bill Gasiamis (50:19)Like it’s a completely different experience. ⁓ I think we’re kind of lucky to be living in the time that we’re living. ⁓ Even though I know that people hear about AI and what it could potentially do in some other situations. ⁓ Let’s use it for good. Like let’s break the work. Pete Rumple (50:21)That’s all we’ll That’s right. That’s exactly right, Bill. It can be used for evil, but it can be used for good. So use it. That’s right. Navigating Health Challenges Bill Gasiamis (50:48)Yeah, just like any technology, right? Like you hear all these things, but any technology can be used for good or evil. So let’s just use it for good. Let’s just make the most of it. So before your stroke, you were going through a divorce or had you already been divorced? Pete Rumple (51:08)I was already divorced. Yeah, it had been it had been a couple of years earlier. I had a bad car accident a bunch of but you know the kids live with me. It was just a stress sandwich and I did not go out the right way. Bill Gasiamis (51:27)Yeah. You didn’t go out at the right way because what do you think was behind that? Like, it’s hard to make really good decisions in very stressful times anyway. You have to have an opportunity or the insight to pause, step out of that situation for a little bit, reflect and then try and make decisions. how did you get into that stage where you found yourself not being ⁓ not going about things appropriately, for example, perhaps. Pete Rumple (52:02)For me, Bill, it was like I didn’t have a choice. I was now in a wheelchair. I was in pain and I had nothing I could do but think. And at first that was very negative. It was, I didn’t handle it well. I didn’t accept it. And once I went through that process and I got like, okay, I’m going to get holistic about this. And by the way, I don’t want to, I don’t want to just fix the physical and then I get done and everything else is a wreck. So went after all of it and just started carving up my day, spiritual, cognitive, physical, mental, every day, a block of each practicing writing, all that stuff. So I just started doing it and rebuilt my life. probably like I should have in the first place, but stuff happens. I had to, you sometimes, you know, we, you and I laughed about this before. Sometimes we’re a little thick. takes a little longer. So it took me a while, but I’m there now. Bill Gasiamis (53:18)Yeah. And reflecting on that version of yourself from the past, does that does that person ever come up again, every so often, because we’re talking about all these positive things, all these amazing changes. And I don’t want to paint a picture that it’s only ever fantastic you and I like what we go through after our initial stroke has been all just roses. Is there moments of that things rearing their ugly head and you reverting back, how do you catch yourself when you’re there? Pete Rumple (53:57)Yeah, I mean bill that’s why what’s really good about this is my first podcast with you because we went really deep in the in the darkness of that now bill is beautiful man. It is beautiful. I am almost I almost don’t talk to people about it because My life is so much better because I had a stroke. It’s crazy. It sounds nuts, but it’s so true. Everything’s sweeter. I just, it’s hard to describe. It’s a blessing. Bill Gasiamis (54:38)Yeah, that’s crazy. It is probably crazy. Pete Rumple (54:42)It is? Bill Gasiamis (54:45)I find myself, ⁓ I find myself obviously having bad days. My bad days are related to stress, ⁓ you know, work, if they’re related to ⁓ interactions with people that don’t go the way that I preferred. They’re related to ⁓ what the stroke still does to me after 14 years. ⁓ It still causes neurological imbalances. still causes tightness on my left side, know, that tightness causes dysfunction on my right side, you know, the body goes out of whack. And if I catch it, if I have a bad night’s sleep, things get thrown out and it’s hard to, ⁓ it’s hard to always navigate it and be effective at catching it and then doing something about it, you know, cause you’re human, you get distracted, et cetera. Pete Rumple (55:38)Well, and Bill, you’re bringing up great points because as I transition back to work, I’ll have some potential potholes that I don’t have right now. So I’m very, I’m very conscious of what I’m going to go back into. Now. I love, I love work. It’s my sport and I love it. But, ⁓ and today I have now. bad moments, not bad days. Maybe those occurred, but I’m going to try to stave that off. But that’s just how it is now. as of as of now, that’s that’s the update, if you will. Yeah. Resilience and Consistency in Recovery Bill Gasiamis (56:25)Yeah. Okay. I like that you said that about work, like there’s gonna be some potholes with if you’re doing the type of work that you’re doing. ⁓ That’s pretty high level and high stress and intense for ⁓ at some stages, it could be right, you’re talking at organizations that are going through a hard time that are looking to you to solve their problems, so to speak, or to support them solve their own problems. So ⁓ You know, the ramping that up is gonna need a little bit of thought so that you don’t go too far into that type of work without realizing how far in you’ve gotten. Pete Rumple (57:10)Absolutely right, Bill. You’re absolutely right. And look, I’m going to try to be as bulletproof as I can. The good news is I’ve been doing this work my whole career. So it’s been 40 years. So I don’t think I have to micromanage or get to like, I think I can find the right balance if I can’t. I’ll go to a lesser job and do something else. But so I realize, especially because I can get pretty intense. So ⁓ I realized that is a risk, a very real risk. I’m not shying away from it. I’m not saying, don’t worry. yes, there is stuff to worry about, but I’m gonna, I’m gonna test and learn. Test and learn is what I always do. Test it and learn, can I do it, not do it, do I have to do different, do I have to do something else? Bill Gasiamis (58:14)Yeah, brilliant. How old are you now? Pete Rumple (58:17)61. Bill Gasiamis (58:18)Okay, so at 61, most people are thinking about retiring. What are you thinking starting a new business at 61? Pete Rumple (58:25)Well, mean, Bill, look, let’s be honest, I think the last three years off. So I have some ⁓ room left in the battery. But I mean, part of the reason for this type of job, Bill, is because if we do this, we run it. And we’ll decide how we take care of clients, how we work and all that. And if I have to take on less, take on less. If I can take on more, take on more. And I’m gonna, like everything else, I’m gonna figure it out one step at a time, Bill. And I, you know, I don’t have the answers, but I’m gonna find them. Bill Gasiamis (59:11)And retirement’s not really in the frame for you. Like it’s not something that you’re thinking about, like to ⁓ officially retire, know, step away from the day to day and just, you know, go and sail off into the sunset type of thing. Pete Rumple (59:24)Yeah, I think to your point, Bill, like if I can make this work, I’ll probably work through my 60s. If I can’t, then I’ll have to probably hang it up earlier or do something lighter. And if that’s the way to be healthy, so be it. I’ll do that. Bill Gasiamis (59:43)What else does work bring you though? Because it doesn’t just bring work income. Like it brings more than that. Like for you, I feel like it’s more than just I’m making a wage or bringing in some money or whatever. What else does it bring? Pete Rumple (1:00:02)Yeah, it’s it’s competitive, Bill. It’s it’s my sport. You know, so hitting the numbers in a month and a quarter and a year. That is the scoreboard for what I do. And if you if you do it well, you can do really well and be very happy and influence a lot of people’s lives in a positive way. And if you don’t, it can be really awful. So Fortunately, I’ve been on the right side of that for a long time and I want to get back to it and no ego stuff I just I want to I want to I want to have an impact and I want to enjoy my sport. Bill Gasiamis (1:00:48)Fair enough. Even in your unhealthiest and heaviest before the stroke, were you this energetic? Did you have this same amount of energy? Pete Rumple (1:01:00)I’ve always been energetic, Bill, but I couldn’t operate like I do now. Like my sleep is wonderful. I go hard at the gym. I do projects. I volunteer. Like I’ve been readying myself for coming back in. And look, if I can, great. If I can’t, I’ll adapt. Bill Gasiamis (1:01:27)Yeah. I know when I went back to work, uh, well, I had to, I had to pause my business. have a painting and maintenance. Yeah. I had to pause it. I had to go back into an office, very basic admin role, like low level, but it was so hard being at work, sitting in front of a computer for eight hours a day. We started, I started that job in 2016 and finished in 2019. By the time I got to 2019. Pete Rumple (1:01:36)I remember. Bill Gasiamis (1:01:57)I was way more capable of going in focusing on the task at hand and doing the work that needed to be done and then being able to be okay to do the drive home because at some point at the beginning I wasn’t really able or up to the task. But I kind of built ⁓ the muscle again and then got to that stage where by 2019 it was fine. So some people might find going back to work like You know, retraining that muscle of being at work and working and focusing and all that kind of stuff. They might find that it’s gonna take a little bit of time to get there and you might have to step back. You might have to decrease the days, decrease the hours and then go again and then try and find where the threshold is, see if you can exceed it and then see how far you can push it and reflect a year, 18 months, two years. Pete Rumple (1:02:38)That’s right. Bill Gasiamis (1:02:56)down the track back to notice how far you’ve come. Pete Rumple (1:03:00)Yeah, right on Bill. I mean, I’m gonna have been out of it for 42 months, probably when I go back. So I hear you loud and clear, and it would have been really tough to do it. before now. Bill Gasiamis (1:03:20)Yeah. Yeah. And you did have a you had a goal to get back to work a lot earlier. Pete Rumple (1:03:29)Yes, that’s right. And ⁓ that’s another thing, Bill, like I’ll set an intention to do something. I’ll go for it. I’m not ready. I’m not gonna, I’m not gonna do it wrong. I’m not gonna hurt myself. So I set a goal. I try to manifest it, but if I have to push it, I push it. Bill Gasiamis (1:03:51)Yeah. Just before we spoke and started this episode, you’re you apologize for wearing a hat, which is was unnecessary ⁓ because you have a scar on your head because there was a skin cancer found. And before it became a thing, the you got you had it removed. That’s right. So now when So I wanna understand like your mindset now compared to before when you come across ⁓ an issue like that, a health, potentially health issue for people. How do you navigate that now compared to how you might have done things before? ⁓ Proactive Health Management Pete Rumple (1:04:38)Beautiful question. Yeah, I used to avoid all that stuff. I avoided the doctor. I don’t want to do this. I want to there’s always a reason to do something else. Now I lean in, I pay attention, I learn I go in, I may agree or not agree with the doctor on certain things. But especially now because I can think again, took me a couple years. But yeah, I lean in. I want to I want to get in there. I want to know what’s wrong. What’s right. What have you just had my annual exam two days ago ago. It went great. Labs came back great. I I my neurologist that I used to have to ⁓ visit quarterly said Pete I don’t even need to see you annually now. Just if you need me call me. Other than that you’re good to go. And she said, we have not seen this kind of recovery before from what you had. Bill Gasiamis (1:05:43)Yeah, I have a similar experience when I was in hospital. They booked me in for two months. I was out in a month ⁓ in rehab and I feel like they should have asked me what I was doing because It’s really important for people to know the difference between being passive and waiting for somebody to rehabilitate you or being the person who’s driving your own rehabilitation. Like there’s a massive difference and Pete Rumple (1:06:13)Huge difference, Bill. You’re right. Huge difference. mean, last last call, I talked to you from my sister’s house in December, just a couple months, few months after it, I made the decision to move out on my own, which I did, which really stunk, Bill. That was hard. Like, I there were some nights I couldn’t eat. I was like, I can’t I’m either gonna make the the bed or the kitchen, which am I doing? Bed. And I just do it. And but it was important. It was important to start knowing where I could push and not being too reliant. Bill Gasiamis (1:06:59)Yeah, yeah, the less reliant you can be the better, but still also good to be able to rely on people when you need a little bit of support. Pete Rumple (1:07:05)Right on. Absolutely. don’t, you know, it was, there’s not a right or wrong. It’s like, what do you think? What’s your gut? Bill Gasiamis (1:07:14)Yeah. Now let’s do a little bit of a community service announcement about this skin cancer. A, how did you notice it? ⁓ What were the steps that you took after you noticed it? How long did you take? Why did they remove it? And so on. Give us a little bit of information. There’ll be people listening here who ⁓ may have noticed a little bump or a lesion or something on their face, their head, their arm, whatever. Give us a little bit of an understanding of how that came to be. Pete Rumple (1:07:43)absolutely the one thing I’ve done Bill through my life as I’ve stayed disciplined on the dermatologist and I don’t know why I think it’s how I was raised everything else I skipped but the dermatologist I stayed on top of and to your point if I notice something and it seems pervasive like it’s not going away I have it looked at a

Republicans on the House Oversight Committee apparently thought that calling Hillary Clinton to testify about Jeffrey Epstein would score them some political points with their base. Instead they looked like fools, wasting everyone's time and only managed to learn that Clinton was possibly the least useful witness they could have called. Rep. James Walkinshaw and Rep. Yassamin Ansari, who serve on the Oversight Committee, join to discuss. It has been clear for months that Donald Trump is very much at risk of losing control of the House and possibly the Senate in this year's midterm elections so he is looking for any way he can to avoid allowing that election to happen in a free and fair way. Now new reporting suggests Trump is considering declaring a national emergency to give himself new powers over the running of elections. Rep. Jamie Raskin joins to discuss. Andrew Bakaj, chief legal counsel for Whistleblower Aid, discusses the latest developments in Tulsi Gabbard trying to keep his whistleblower client's report away from Congres. To listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads, sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

How are we preparing the next generation of energy professionals? Kieran Graham, student of the Sustainable and Renewable Energy Engineering program at Carleton University, is set to embark on his career in the energy sector. Kieran joins thinkenergy to chat about his studies, from thermodynamics to power generation, regulatory to economic aspects, and what's on the horizon for the industry and his future. Listen in for a fresh perspective on the future of energy with a next-gen energy professional. Related links: Sustainable and Renewable Energy Engineering program, Carleton University: https://admissions.carleton.ca/programs/sustainable-and-renewable-energy-engineering/ APEX Lab, Carleton University: https://carleton.ca/apex/ Kieran Graham on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kierangraham1/ Trevor Freeman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/trevor-freeman-p-eng-8b612114 Hydro Ottawa: https://hydroottawa.com/en To subscribe using Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thinkenergy/id1465129405 To subscribe using Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7wFz7rdR8Gq3f2WOafjxpl To subscribe on Libsyn: http://thinkenergy.libsyn.com/  - Transcript: Trevor Freeman  00:07 Welcome to thinkenergy, a podcast that dives into the fast, changing world of energy through conversations with industry leaders, innovators and people on the front lines of the energy transition. Join me, Trevor Freeman, as I explore the traditional, unconventional and up and coming facets of the energy industry. If you have any thoughts, feedback or ideas for topics we should cover, please reach out to us at think energy at hydro ottawa.com, hi everyone and welcome back. We know that we are already in this period of change that we call the energy transition, but this is not a short term thing. We will be in this period of change for years and likely decades to come. And that means that the next generation of energy professionals, so engineers, policy experts, customer focused, people, finance and so on and so on, they might spend their entire careers working on this. So I thought it would be interesting to check in with someone who's just about to enter the workforce to find out how we're preparing that next generation to dive head first into this challenge and hopefully bring innovative and exciting solutions to the table. This is a career and society defining challenge. This is something that we'll be focusing on for many, many years to come. So I really wanted to understand what is that next generation learning. Now I'm sure you'd all agree that what you learn in your formal schooling is only one small part of the knowledge base and skill set that is important for contributing in a meaningful way. I know that the things I became really excited about and passionate about as I was getting through my engineering degree really helped set my course and have led me to where I am today, and definitely was not the course I thought I was on when I started engineering school. And for the record, these things that I became really passionate exciting about weren't, you know, the fluid dynamics and soil mechanics and thermodynamics and all these courses I was taking. It was the concepts and the way of thinking and the things I became passionate about. So all that being said, I'm pretty excited today to talk to my guests about what he has been learning and how he thinks that's setting him up for a career focused on energy. Kieran Graham is in his final year of his degree at Carleton University here in Ottawa, and he's in the sustainable and renewable energy engineering program. I love the fact that we have a whole focus program on clean and renewable energy, that's fantastic. Kieran is the president of the Sustainable and Renewable Engineering Society, and he helps organize academic social and networking events for students in that program and others that are interested in sustainable and renewable energy. He has worked with the apex lab at Carleton, doing research on various carbon capture technologies, and he was also the organizer, or one of the organizers, for the 2026 Ontario Engineering Competition. Kieran Graham, welcome to the show.   Kieran Graham  02:48 Thanks a lot for having me. I'm excited.   Trevor Freeman  02:50 So Kieran, let's start with a little bit of background on your program at University. So you're in the Sustainable and Renewable Energy Engineering program at Carleton University. Tell us a little bit about what that program is and what you focus on.   Kieran Graham  03:03 Yeah, so I will admit it's a little confusing at first, like Sustainable and Renewable Energy Engineering, the long name, and then we have two streams. So one's called Smart Technologies for Power Generation Distribution, the other one's about efficient energy conversion. So the easiest way to actually differentiate these two is electrical and mechanical. So smart technologies is electrical efficient conversion is a more mechanical. So like, if you have know anything about engineering disciplines, it's electrical and mechanical.   Trevor Freeman  03:35 Gotcha   Kieran Graham  03:36 Also, by the way, SREE is short form for sustainable renewable energy engineering, just to save us some fumbling over our words, in the future, perfect.   Trevor Freeman  03:45 This is a very acronym heavy podcast at time, so I appreciate you spelling that out for us. So when we when we hear SREE, you're talking about the program, gotcha. So give us an idea of, like, what's the focus of the program more broadly?   Kieran Graham  03:58 Yeah, so like, I'm in the electrical stream. So I take a lot of different courses at the beginning, ranging from fluid mechanics, and we take electrical courses like circuits and signals and just Electronics One. But then we also later take courses that are more SREE specific, that are more focused on learning how we are using thermodynamics to then put it through as a turbine and then create that energy. And then, how is it work, specifically with a nuclear power plant, or we even learn a little bit about natural gas, but just for context. And then, how does that differ from generating electricity with wind in a wind turbine. It's pretty similar, but like, how where's the difference? And like, how do we apply that in different scenarios?   Trevor Freeman  04:48 Got you so if I could say that back to you. You know, when I was in energy or engineering school, I learned a lot about those fundamentals. I learned, we know, we did thermodynamics, we did all that kind. Of stuff we just mentioned, but the application to power generation, and the renewable aspect of it, the sustainability side, that was all stuff I learned later in my career. You're building that into your programs. Kind of built that into what you're learning. So you're learning the more traditional engineering side of things, the thermodynamics and how this stuff works, but in the context of power generation, I assume, you know, like application of power generation, like how the grid works, things like that.   Kieran Graham  05:28 Yeah, exactly. So we take a little bits of courses that other programs will take, and then I got, first we're taking those same courses, and then we take other courses that are really specific, and we apply them to sustainable and renewable energy engineering. The other thing is, later in our degree, we also apply things on a more higher level, like energy is kind of like a high level topic. There's so many things that are happening and there's a lot of regulatory and economic aspects to it. So we have to look at, like, the energy market and like, yes, like nuclear fusion is like a great option if it works and if it's economically viable. And you know, nuclear has its own regulatory aspect, so we have that coverage of information and knowledge later in the years.   Trevor Freeman  06:17 Gotcha so. And for our listeners out there who are not kind of engineering nerds like Kieran and I. One of the things how I describe engineering more broadly is that it's sort of a systems thinking approach to things. So understanding, what are my inputs? What's the result of those inputs? What does that mean for the output? What are the feedback loops? And so what I'm hearing you say, Kieran, is that it's bringing that into the energy sector, the energy industry, which is fantastic, like, really exciting to hear that this is, this is what you're learning, and this is what the next sort of generation of engineers is being taught right now. How did you end up in this program? What drew you to this particular field of engineering?   Kieran Graham  07:01 Yeah, so it's a little complicated, because when I applied to university, I knew I wanted to stay in Ottawa, and my parents both went to Carleton. My grandpa worked at Carleton like when it was first established, so I had deep roots there. And in my mind, Carleton is a superior University in Ottawa. I know that's controversial, but, you know, it's okay. But anyways, I applied to three different engineerings at Carleton, and my first choice was actually aerospace engineering, because in high school, it was kind of like a this was the prestige of making aerospace engineering. And I actually got in and my first year I was in aerospace engineering, but at Carleton, first year, engineering is all general. So after first year, I decided that my goals, and I don't want to talk down to my aerospace colleagues, but my morals and my aspirations were more set towards a sustainable and renewable energy engineering focus. So sustainable renewable energy engineering was my second choice going into Carleton, so it's a pretty easy switch in second year, but from my childhood, I had an aunt who worked for Greenpeace Canada and also just learning about sustainability in my house and at school, this just seemed like a natural, good choice.   Trevor Freeman  08:28 My journey, and we won't get into the details of my journey, but it echoes that a lot of kind of having an idea going into engineering school and at some point, realizing that maybe this doesn't line up with my values, or what I want to do, the impact that I want to have. And that kind of gets into my next question of, you know, generally, the engineering profession is built around having an impact, a positive impact on society, on people, and using a, like I said, systems thinking approach to that. That's sort of the bar that we try and live up to. So, you know, you talked about wanting to have an impact. What does that impact me? Or what is having a positive impact mean for you, and how do you see yourself contributing as you're nearing the end of your education, at least formal education side of your undergrad?   Kieran Graham  09:14 Yeah, so I actually just took my engineering professional practices course, which I learned about the code of ethics and how the engineers duty is paramount to serving the public. And I think that actually really resonated with me as much as you know, the course is a lot of just talking about regulatory stuff, it actually was refreshing and good to hear that that's like the regulatory view on what engineering should be, because my personal goals are very much to have a positive and strong impact on society, and specifically like my local community. You know, my family's deeply rooted in Ottawa, so I want to have a good, positive impact. Impact on Ottawa. So I guess when I switched from aerospace to sustainable energy, I decided that, like, there's a climate crisis right now, and I just saw the opportunity to create a large positive impact within engineering, which I was really enjoying and helped solve those problems of having that net zero or clean energy solution, which was being so, like, stressed upon within, like, my whole life,   Trevor Freeman  10:31 That's great, yeah. I mean, it's, it's definitely, in my opinion, and I think this has been echoed a lot on this podcast, is, you know, the energy transition, the climate crisis, and sort of our reaction to that is definitely, the defining challenge of our of our time right now, and certainly, certainly your career, probably moving forward in this field. So looking at the energy transition, what skills or knowledge do you think you've developed throughout the last couple of years in your undergrad that have prepared you to contribute to this. You know, rapidly changing industry that the electricity sector, the energy sector of today is not the same as it was five years ago, and it won't be the same in five years. So coming into it at this point, what do you think you're bringing to the table that's going to help contribute to that?   Kieran Graham  11:23 Yeah. So, I mean, it's the whole point of the program. And you know, people running, I'll shout out Ahmed Abdullah, a professor who's really been heading the SREE  program. And so the, really, the big goal of SREE is like to be multidisciplinary, and being able to approach all the different aspects of this climate crisis and energy transition. You need to be able to understand how, like, I said, like the mechanical thermodynamics and fluid dynamics work, but also understand how a electric generator works, and then how transmission works, and need to understand, like, what's the point of creating solar in the desert, if you have to then transfer it all the way to, I don't know, somewhere in Europe, or something like, those are the large scale aspects that you need to be able to understand. The other thing that's also really important is just having the knowledge of understanding how like load profiles work and how data analysis and understanding like this is what a good load profile looks like. This is a problem like the duck curve or problems like this, like that, we as three engineers really understand, like how these different problems are created, and then how we can fix them and where they're being affected, like the duck curve in California, and like in Canada, we have a winter peaking system. Like all these problems are different, different aspects that we are very knowledgeable on and already have a base understanding of. And I think that's what's really important and helpful going into this industry.   Trevor Freeman  13:04 Yeah, that's great. Has there been a time during your program, during your undergrad, or a project that you've worked on that has really kind of changed the way you view energy or the electricity grid, or open your eyes to something that you weren't aware of before, really kind of, yeah, drove your passion for it?   Kieran Graham  13:27 Yeah, so, you know, there's been many problems and projects that I've had throughout my degree, and you know, the view and impact on my motivation has been very hopeful and very doubtful in equal amounts. But I would say maybe more helpful hopeful in the in the future, just because sometimes in school, things get a little stressful and blow up in proportion. But I'd say my biggest hopeful, I guess, and changing my my view of things would be my capstone project. So the capstone project that I'm working on currently is focusing on a net zero 2050 Ottawa. And how are we going to prepare for that? How are we going to handle the generation for that? How are we going to get energy places? How are we going to handle the winter peaks of electrifying, heating. How are we going to deal with EVs? It's a never ending puzzle slash scavenger hunt of finding data and how do things work together? How do we piece it together? Yeah, it's been a great challenge, but also really opened my eyes up to how all these, these different sectors that I've been learning about in my degree, how do these all work fit together and solve a problem.   Trevor Freeman  14:52 Great, yeah, and that's exactly where I want to go next. So, so I'm glad you brought up your capstone project. Just a quick backgrounder for our listeners. A part of an engineering undergrad in Ontario, at least, I think across Canada, is a final year project which is known as the capstone project. So the idea of the capstone project is it's supposed to be a culmination of all the different sort of theoretical things you've learned in your degree, bringing all that knowledge together and giving the students a chance to apply that in some real world scenarios. So, you know, it's interesting, Kieran, to know that your capstone was looking at what does a net zero 2050 reality look like for the City of Ottawa? Because the City of Ottawa has a 2050 Net Zero target, 2040 actually, for the corporation of the City of Ottawa, and 2050 for the community. And there's, there's lots of moving parts to that. It's a real world thing that's happening that a lot of folks are working on. So I'd like to dig into that a little bit more with you and find out. And I know you're not quite finished it yet, so you're not going to have all the answers, but you know what? What are some of the things that you're looking at? What are some of the must do's for us as society and us as a city and all the stakeholders involved if we're going to to achieve that net zero reality?   Speaker 1  16:17 Yeah, so we are a group of, I think, 18 or 19 different undergraduates for all, hopefully graduating at the end of the semester. And so this project is happens every year for the past, like four or five years, I think, and we're the third year focusing on Ottawa. So there's been a lot of things covered. And honestly, at the beginning of the project, we were like, how could we possibly have a third year of material to study? And I think now that we're approaching the final we're realizing how much there is to look at, and maybe we'll have some notes for next year saying, like, there really is a million things that we could look at in this scope. Like, it's just a really big scope, but we have, like, a buildings team, an energy storage team, a nuclear team, a solar team, and a transportation team, and I'm on the integration team, so my job is really just trying to put things together from all the different sub teams who are focusing on very specific things, and Specifically I'm the integration team lead. So I'm focusing on load prediction. So like, in 2050 what's the load that we're going to need to have? And that really, including working with transportation and buildings and understanding how, like, the EVS and the heat pumps and electrified heating are we going to have district heating, like, how is all this going to affect our 2050 load.   Trevor Freeman  17:46 And so what are some of those strategies? Like, the things you mentioned are bang on. That's of course, the things that are going to drive our demand. Are you looking at providing that additional capacity? You know, with local generation, what's the what's the strategy there? How do we have enough energy and have enough clean energy in order to meet that growing demand that you've identified?   Kieran Graham  18:10 Yeah, so that's like the big problem, right? So I'm doing load prediction, and then we have teams like nuclear and solar. And past years we've had wind teams, and I think there was a biofuels team as well past years, and we put all this data, kind of on two sides, and then we feed it through an optimization software that someone is working on in my team, and it's going to look at economically, how competitive something like solar or nuclear or wind or hydro, I guess would be looking within Ottawa like, how do all these compare? And it's all really about economics. When you're looking at it like, which is feasible because there's lots of cool technologies, like I mentioned earlier, but it's optimizing for cost, and then we're finding a low profile, and then ultimately, we want to run it through a software called eTap, which basically is like a digital twin for looking at energy load flow analysis and making sure the grid can actually handle this 2050 load.   Trevor Freeman  19:16 And so you've identified kind of the technology challenges and solutions. I'm glad to hear you talk about like, you know, the economics have to make sense. Of course, there are technologies out there that, yeah, if there was unlimited resources, it would solve our problems. What about the sort of, I guess there's sort of two streams here. There's the regulatory, or let's call it the political side, the enabling aspects of, how do we get this technology that makes sense and has a business case? How do we get that deployed, more deployed faster, you know, more broadly, how do we do that? Did you look at the sort of regulatory, political side of things?   Kieran Graham  19:56 Yeah, so in our capstone, we don't necessarily look. At it super specifically, like we're not necessarily looking at how regulations would affect it, but it's more we're going to be looking at scenarios of, if we have 100 per cent EV adoption in 2050 what is the load going to look like? But you know, the changing of the federal EV mandate, how is that going to look at change the load projection, and then, how is that going to affect our generation? Like, what do we like if we have huge peaks our nuclear teams generation, which won't necessarily be able to ramp as fast as something like a battery storage or or like a hydro dam, or something like these. These are the complications that we're looking at, not necessarily super focused on regulation, but keeping it as like a guiding prospect of, should we be considering 100 per cent EVs, like, is that really a realistic goal for 2015 at this point?   Trevor Freeman  20:59 Yeah. And I guess it's kind of the same thing. And so maybe the answer is similar, but it's this the societal side of things too. And so yeah, like, from a technology perspective, it would be great if we hit that 100 per cent EV coverage by 2050, if not sooner. We know that that's a big source of emissions. It'd be great if we could do sort of like mass heat pump deployment. But at the end of the day, people, you know, we're relying on individuals within our society to make those decisions, and so one aspect of this is, how do we help that be the right decision? And how do we help people want to do this? Because it is the smarter choices. Has that conversation come into the project, and it's okay if it hasn't, I know there's obviously a limited scope of the project. Scope of the project, but is that something that you guys are talking through?   Kieran Graham  21:52 Yeah, I think that's something that we are always like talking about as, like a bunch of young engineers who are really looking to understand the industry. And, you know, making sure these things actually happen is always kind of on our mind, like, what's the point of us doing all this work? And, you know, stressing ourselves till two and two in the morning getting our work done or getting ready for a presentation. It's like, why are we doing all of this? I think you know, the aspect of community involvement and the regulatory and making it make sense is part of our job. Like, yes, that maybe our focus isn't necessarily on making it all make sense for the public, but it's, it's something that we have to consider. Like, if it's not economically and like socially viable, then isn't there's no there's no point. Like, it's just not, not a proper engineering solution. So I think ultimately, it's not something that we're focusing on, but something that we talk about all the time, that like, like we go to community events and kind of learn about what people's like outlooks are on, on all these different problems. And would people be okay with having battery systems and solar systems on their house, and would they be okay with using those, as you know, distributed energy resources that can feed back to the grid? Would people be okay with bi directional charging on their EVs like these are big batteries that could be used for different things. Like these aren't necessarily direct considerations of our capstone, but something that we keep in mind when we're trying to create a solution.   Trevor Freeman  23:26 Yeah, great. And I'm glad to hear you say that, and I'm glad it's part of the conversation. It's certainly, it's certainly a huge aspect of how we actually deploy these strategies and solutions and how we develop them. It's a big part of you know what I get to do at Hydro Ottawa, being on the customer side of things, is listening to our customers and understanding what their realities are, and trying to find ways of okay, well, how does that match up with programs or opportunities that we have to be able to run. So really glad to hear that you're talking through that the challenge of decarbonizing our energy mix. So going from sort of like fossil fuel combustion energy generation to a cleaner solution is really only one challenge that's facing the energy sector. I'm sure you're aware, you've brought up things that are causing an increase in demand, but we're also seeing, you know, non-climate related drivers of increased energy demand. So I'm thinking about, like, AI proliferation and data center growth and all these things. Is that part of the calculus that goes into your project. Are you thinking of, how do we also meet this growing energy demand for non-climate related reasons?   Kieran Graham  24:48 Yeah. I mean, you know, understanding the energy mix, and you know, the load for the future is really difficult, and I know that's my whole job, but you know, if I had an A plus answer, I. Wouldn't have to worry about capstone for the next couple of months. But you know, all these considerations I'm thinking about, so like when I'm getting buildings data from the commercial sector and the residential sector, industry is not very big in Ottawa as an electrical load, at least, but I need to look at that for load prediction, because maybe industry load is going to increase with data center, like, where does that fall under the data the energy split, I know like Kanata Tech Center, like, that's going to be growing, and that's a big energy load, and I know it's a big stress on distribution systems, and the feeders over there struggling, and I know Hydro Ottawa is planning to upgrade those locations. But how can we maybe predict that, like data center or data center like load in Canada, that? How can we deal with that in different way, like adding a battery system over there, or maybe generation closer to there, which just stress the overall grid less.   Trevor Freeman  26:05 Yeah, I think it's in, you know, for our non-Ottawa listeners, Kanata is a part of the city that has a high concentration of, sort of the high tech sector. It's, it's certainly a growing area in Ottawa, and one of our constrained areas on the grid that we're investing in and bringing a lot additional capacity to in the coming years. So those challenges that you identified, how do we deal with, not only this energy transition from a clean technology perspective, but also a changing economic demographics like we're seeing more investment in these areas, and how do we make sure that we're keeping up. So yeah, that's definitely, definitely a part of it. So one of the goals of the podcast is definitely to make sure the message is clear that the energy transition is not something of the future. It's not something that will happen eventually. We're in it right now. We're seeing the change to our to the way we use energy, and the way we produce energy and move and store and all those things. So is there something that's happening now, you know, within the energy space that you're particularly excited about that you've, you've kind of learned about in the last little while that you want to get involved in when you when you graduate?   Kieran Graham  27:16 Yeah, so my whole degree is about this. So there's so many different aspects that I could talk about in that I'm interested in. And specifically to my capstone, machine learning is a big field in pretty much anything like machine learning and AI will be involved in any sort of capacity, in any industry. I'm sure. The problem with my specific application is I'm trying to predict 2050, load, and our load for the past few years hasn't really been increasing. Due to efficiency, and there was covid and different aspects like that. And so how do we apply that, and what, what kind of way is really interesting. But another thing that I'm really interested in is virtual power plants and stuff like micro grids. And how does all these, these little DERs and non-wire solutions, how do all these these work together? And how can we, like as a community, work with our So, like solar on our houses, or battery systems in our houses, our EVs, our bidirectional charging, as I mentioned earlier, like how, how could these technologies work together to really reduce the stress on the distribution system for you guys at Hydro Ottawa? And how could everything work together? And you see it happening in California. It's like being tested. If I think Ottawa would just be a great place for this, because of the nature of everyone having cars and everything's everyone has big, pretty big houses. We can have solar on our roofs, like, yes, we have a winter but which has less sunlight, but solar is still incredibly viable and useful. So how can all of this work together and become a virtual power plant that one house has energy and you know, the generations not able to keep up, or the distribution system is failing for whatever reason, you can rely on a community which has battery systems or generation systems just locally. How can we use that to then power each other's houses? I think that's really cool, a future thing that really looking forward to.   Trevor Freeman  29:26 Yeah, it's, it's definitely something that gets talked a lot about, and, you know, in the industry in general, but even, you know, at Hydro Ottawa, looking at, how do we leverage, you know, this is what you're talking about. How do we leverage customer owned devices, customer equipment, to help manage grid capacity needs. So if we're in a time of increased demand on the grid, how do we make calls out to people that have batteries, people that have EVs, that are plugged in, people that have smart devices in their home, and say, Hey, we need a little bit of capacity. We're going to ask you to draw from your battery instead of the grid, or we're going to ask you to pause your EV charging, or turn your thermostat down a degree in order to generate that capacity on the grid. And it's, it's not even so much, you know, it's, it's not that the grid is failing and able to keep up. It's otherwise we would have to build a much bigger grid. We'd have to invest more in the grid. This lets us be more efficient with how we invest in the grid and how we build out so we can sort of not over build, which traditionally what we do is we kind of build the worst case scenario. What? What would we do if that worst case scenario wasn't as bad, if we could pull on these, these other customer owned equipment? So yeah, very cool concept, and definitely something that we're looking at here at Hydro Ottawa, and have a couple pilots coming up on that.   Kieran Graham  30:53 Yeah. And I just wanted to say, like earlier, you're mentioning, like, how do we work on, how do we solve these solutions of net zero within a community, I just think, like the adoption and community incentives and how do we work together? Like, these are the solutions. These are, these are the things that if we as a community decide to do, it's just a very viable thing. It's just we need to be able to work together as a community to be able to do it.   Trevor Freeman  31:22 Yeah, so, you know, we've been talking a little bit about a different approach to energy and that community approach. I really like that based on on what you know from your studies and your experience in this area. What do you think the utility of the future looks like, like? What does that look like to you? What is the role of the utility moving forward?   Kieran Graham  31:47 Yeah, so it's a hard question, because obviously, there's so many things that could happen. And you know, like I was saying, predicting the future is very hard, and I can't just, can't just use machine learning. It's not a pattern. It's not like something that's going to be super predictable. But I do think like the idea of micro grids and working together and distributed energy resources, like all these things are going to be needed to be able to work together. So there's going to be so many little systems and organization, and the utility was going to be the person, kind of, like a mini IESO, I guess, like, how, like, you're going to be controlling, or not necessarily controlling, but organizing. Who's going to be using their DERs, like, which areas are going to need more solar deployment? Where can we integrate vehicle to grid charging? Where can we add more charging infrastructure for communities? Where can we put, like, community batteries, like, more of like an organizer of even smaller systems within the community. I think that's just the nature of technology is going to be, come more complicated, but we're also going to become more proficient and be able to organize those things. So, yeah, I guess that's, that's what I view the future of utilities.   Trevor Freeman  33:17 Yeah, it's, it's a little bit, you know, lots of, lots of, lots of concepts. There it's, it's getting a little bit closer to the end user when it when we look at, how do we operate the grid? So right now, you brought up the IESO, that's our Independent Electricity System Operator who operates on the provincial level. I think the future is that that that level of operation gets a little bit closer to the end user, and that the local distribution companies like Hydro Ottawa have more control to identify where does the grid need extra capacity? Where does it have capacity that we can shift? And that's all happening at the same time as technology is giving us more insight into that. We're having we're going to have more understanding of what's happening down at that granular level. So we're going to be able to make these calls a little bit better. So, yeah, I think, I think you're on the right track. I think that's, that's where we're going. We're going to more of a bidirectional flow of energy, a little bit more closer to the end user control over how the grid is operated.   Kieran Graham  34:20 Yeah, and in our classes, we learn about, like in Europe, how they have bidirectional charging and generation. In like Germany, people have solar panels on their balconies everywhere, and it the solar penetration like Germany, a lot of parts of Germany are on the same latitude as us. So it's like, it's not infeasible for like Ottawa, to have solar everywhere and have that be part of the grid, and not just for your own benefit or anything like that. Like, it's a, it's a real possibility.   Trevor Freeman  34:51 Yeah, yeah. I think there's, there's lots of things that we can do to really improve, to really leverage the devices that are out there, to leverage. Opportunities that we have in front of us. So, Kieran, as we kind of get close to the end of our conversation here, are there any words of wisdom that you'd like to share? You know, you're kind of at the end of the beginning of your career journey. Here, you're almost done your undergrad, about to take whatever next steps there are, that's, you know, starting your career or further education. What about you know someone who's maybe at the start of that part of their journey? You know someone that's thinking about wanting to get involved in the energy transition, maybe wanting a career in that space. What words of wisdom would you provide?   Kieran Graham  35:35 Yeah, so I mean, there's plenty of things I would recommend, you know, for young students, and for people similar approaching my situation, I think the biggest thing is just like networking and creating communities. Like, if you're a new student going into school, like, be part of socials. Be part of engineering societies, and or not engineering societies even like you can just any sort of club or sports team, or just have a community of people that you can really rely on to, like, if you're struggling with an assignment or a topic or a certain class, just like, have someone to be able to talk to talk through like that topic, and ultimately, like those connections who are helping you out with things Like, it'll go back, and they'll be like, Hey, do you understand this? You can get help them. And then you have a friendship, you have a connection, you have someone who's maybe going to work in a field that, like, in the future, you'll be able to leverage to get a job. Like, I have people who, you know, I helped in, or probably they helped me more because they were in older years, and they are working at different industries, and I can now talk to them and be like, hey, like, how do you like your new job now that you're in the workforce, and do you have any opportunities that I can, I could look into working for? So really creating that network of people who can help you out with those things, like you don't have to do it alone, and it really just opens your eyes and allows you to have really good conversations and prepare you for the future.   Trevor Freeman  37:08 Yeah, so if I could, if I could just build on that, it's the importance of creating those connections in that community is great for your own learning, your own knowledge, but also for solving problems, like, no problem is solved by a single discipline or a single focus. You know, it's great that you're learning all these tools in your engineering degree, but you know, real problems get solved by a mix of, you know, the engineer folks, the finance folks, the customer side of things, the, you know, societal side of things. So really great advice. Thanks for sharing that with us. So Kieran, we always end our interviews with a series of questions that I ask to all our guests, so I'll dive right into those. What is a book that you've read that you think everyone should read?   Kieran Graham  37:56 Yeah, so a lot of my reading has been textbooks recently, but I think when I have the time I read a lot of dystopian, so I'll say Fahrenheit 451, even though it's a pretty common one, but it's just really good and really relevant to things.   Trevor Freeman  38:10 So yeah, definitely one of those classics that's important for everyone to read or at least be aware of. So same question, but for a movie or a show, what's one that you would recommend everybody?   Kieran Graham  38:21 Yeah, there's plenty of good shows those are a little bit easier to find some time and brain power for, but big Star Wars fan, so I'm going to say Andor, just a really good show, really relevant, really love that show.   Trevor Freeman  38:34 Yeah, fantastic. I agree. And I just so my oldest kid is 12, and I've just got him starting to watch that one. So it's a great. If someone offered you a free round trip flight anywhere in the world, where would you go?   Kieran Graham  38:49 Yeah, another really hard question. I'm going to Peru right after I graduate. So if you guys wanted to pay for that, that would be great.   Trevor Freeman  38:56 It's not an offer. Just to be clear.   Kieran Graham  38:58 No, I know. I would just say, like, maybe I really have been seeing these videos about Kyrgyzstan, like the those, like East Asian or, guess, Western Asia countries like Kyrgyzstan would be really cool.   Trevor Freeman  39:17  Cool. Yeah, very neat. Who's someone that you admire?   Kieran Graham  39:20 Yeah, so I admire plenty of people. I think I'm going to say my grandpa, though. I've always looked up to him and like how he lives his life, and, you know, he's funny, and just like, has really good values. And I think he's just someone who I ultimately, as a person, look up to. And you know, he worked at Carlton, so I don't know it's just like, the future of like, where I would like to see myself.   Trevor Freeman  39:48 Great. Yeah, great answer. And finally, what's something that you're really excited about when it comes to the energy sector, its future, and you have the benefit of being at the very beginning of your career, you get to get involved in this. So what's something you're excited about?   Kieran Graham  39:59 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, I said earlier, like, there's plenty of things, but I'll say virtual power plants again. Like, if we could create a community where we have DERs and are working together micro grids and all of this, like, that would be so amazing. It'd be so cool. So I think that's going to be, that's my thing. I'm super excited for.   Trevor Freeman  40:21 Very cool well, I'm very excited to see you get involved in that, and thanks for your time today. Kieran, it's great to chat with you. It's great to get some insight into kind of what the next generation of engineers are learning and really looking forward to, kind of seeing where you land in short order here and what your career starts to look like. So thanks very much.   Kieran Graham  40:41 Awesome. Thank you very much.   Trevor Freeman  40:43 Take care. Thanks for tuning in to another episode of the thinkenergy podcast. Don't forget to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts, and it would be great if you could leave us a review. It really helps to spread the word. As always, we would love to hear from you, whether it's feedback, comments or an idea for a show or a guest. You can always reach us at thinkenergy@hydroottawa.com.

Send a textHey y'all heeeeeey!! Hope everyone has been doing well. Today's episode is brought to you by escaped reality and wishful thinking. Sit back and enjoy babes. XOXO 2 Bad B*tches. 

...SURPRISE! Gotcha. Yes the mini feature in this month's episode of The Cycling Podcast Féminin is all about two surprising wins from last season. We'll be hearing from reigning world champion Magdaleine Vallieres about her huge shock win last September and from podcast favourite Lotte Claes about the Omloop Het Niewsblad victory which upset all the big hitters last February.Rose Manley, Denny Gray and Rebecca Charlton will also be covering the less surprising UAE Tour where Elisa Longo Borghini took the overall title for the third time and Lorena Wiebes claimed all three sprint stages. The less than thrilling racing does however give the team the chance to look more closely at superstar Wiebes. An athlete who makes a credible bid for the title of best sprinter that has ever been but is still so often overlooked by both media and fans.You can hear more from world champion Magdaleine Vallieres in our forthcoming Friends Special, an exclusive for Friends of The Podcast subscribers. Hear about the 1,000km bikepacking trip that sparked her imagination as a nine-year-old in Quebec, her difficult transition into the elite ranks and her rise to claim the rainbow stripes.Also on the agenda: nominative determinism jumpers, the mystery of the fan club president's notebook and the briefest of peeks at Denny's crystal balls.Follow us on social media:Twitter @cycling_podcastInstagram @thecyclingpodcastFriends of the PodcastSign up as a Friend of the Podcast at thecyclingpodcast.com to listen to new special episodes every month plus a back catalogue of more than 300 exclusive episodes.The 11.01 CappuccinoOur regular email newsletter is now on Substack. Subscribe here for frothy, full-fat updates to enjoy any time (as long as it's after 11am).The Cannibal & BadgerFriends of the Podcast can join the discussion at our new virtual pub, The Cannibal & Badger. A friendly forum to talk about cycling and the podcast. Log in to your Friends of the Podcast account to join in.The Cycling Podcast is on StravaThe Cycling Podcast was founded in 2013 by Richard Moore, Daniel Friebe and Lionel Birnie.

Most youth camp games fail for one simple reason… and almost nobody realizes it. Leaders spend hours planning activities, but kids lose interest in minutes — and it's not because they're distracted or bored. Today, I'm sitting down with the creator of Camp Clue — a game that's been used in camps around the world to keep kids fully engaged. He's breaking down exactly why it works — and how you can design games that actually hold attention all week long. And how you can get it for yourself! CAMP CLUE ON DYM https://www.downloadyouthministry.com/p/camp-clue/camps-and-events/events-6260.html SHOW NOTES Shownotes & Transcripts https://www.hybridministry.xyz/187 ❄️ WINTER SOCIAL MEDIA PACK https://www.patreon.com/posts/winter-seasonal-144943791?utm_medium=clipboard_copy&utm_source=copyLink&utm_campaign=postshare_creator&utm_content=join_link HYBRID HERO MEMBERS GET IT FREE! https://www.patreon.com/hybridministry YM Lab - Anthony's Old Podcast https://podcast.downloadyouthministry.com/ymlab/

Link to episode page This week's Department of Know is hosted by Rich Stroffolino with guests Steve Zalewski, co-host, Defense in Depth, and Nick Espinosa, host, The Deep Dive Radio Show Thanks to our show sponsor, Devo/Strike 48 Strike48 is the Agentic Log Intelligence Platform that actually puts AI agents to work, maximizing log visibility without blowing your budget. Find threats your siloed tools miss. Get started today with pre-built AI agents and workflows that investigate, detect, and respond 24/7 or build your own at strike48.com/security.  All links and the video of this episode can be found on CISO Series.com        

Nick and Justin catch one of them ass darts. Post show song: FADE ME OUT, from the recent BROWNWALL album POPPING A SQUAT FOR THE HOLIDAYS (Nunziata, Murphy, Makarewicz, Robinson).  By the way, you can donate to this show in the link if you have more money than sense. You can follow on Insta and on Twit and can comment on these on the Boards. You can also write a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts!Theme music by Nick Nunziata and Steve Murphy and their many bands can be heard on Soundcloud.

Jess got bamboozled into staying at a haunted hotel... Did Charlotte end up sending that heated break up group text? If Kramer takes a girl to this spot on Valentine's Day, is it a date?

In this episode I sit down and share the entire inspiration for this D-Now, Winter Retreat & Summer Camp on-going games with my friend, Andrew Jansen. Andrew is a 10+ year youth worker, and his assassin game sparked this entire podcast mini-series. He expains his creative (and super CHEAP) adaptation to this game. Plus! Andrew shared his lock-in survival guide for FREE! Andrew's Lock-in Guide: https://www.patreon.com/posts/10-year-veterans-146449370?utmmedium=clipboardcopy&utmsource=copyLink&utmcampaign=postsharecreator&utmcontent=join_link SHOW NOTES Shownotes & Transcripts https://www.hybridministry.xyz/184 BECOME A HYBRID HERO https://www.patreon.com/hybridministry ❄️ WINTER SOCIAL MEDIA PACK https://www.patreon.com/posts/winter-seasonal-144943791?utmmedium=clipboardcopy&utmsource=copyLink&utmcampaign=postsharecreator&utmcontent=join_link

Jody Grunden - Anders CPA On Working Together: "It's only going to help everybody if we can all learn how to get better and faster." Every business owner needs to watch their money.  You watch it come in, go out and hopefully end up with some leftover to make sure you are doing more than just moving money. But not every business is large enough to justify a full-time chief financial officer.  Which leads to a conundrum, how do you get the talented person to help you with the financial end of your business when you don't have enough financial paperwork for them to poke at full time? Jody Grunden saw this need years ago and has built a virtual CFO business that he then sold to Anders CPA.  Jody discusses what a virtual CFO can do and why it is important. Listen as Jody details how the use of a virtual CFO has helped grow many business.  Plus he details the value of standing out.  In his case, with a Hawaiian shirt. Enjoy! Visit Jody at: https://anderscpa.com/   Podcast Overview: 00:00 "Virtual Beginnings and Success" 03:57 "Next Year Finally Paid Off" 06:50 "Interactive Pricing Strategy Breakdown" 11:40 "Finding Success Beyond Accounting" 12:40 "Pivoting Amid Layoffs and Guilt" 18:45 "Educating for Success, Not Selling" 19:42 "Productizing Services with Subscriptions" 24:58 "Dynamic Forecasting Explained" 26:33 Truck Repair Business Insights 31:20 "Flexible Client Collaboration Process" 35:07 "Building Connections and Growth" 38:29 "Rethinking Strategy for Success" 42:01 "Thought Leadership Eased Hiring" 44:26 "Expanding Connections Beyond Remote Teams" 47:32 "Scaling Processes for Sustainability" Sponsors: Live Video chat with our customers here with LiveSwitch: https://join.liveswitch.com/gfj3m6hnmguz Some videos have been recorded with Riverside: https://www.riverside.fm/?utm_campaign=campaign_5&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=rewardful&via=james-kademan Podcast Transcription: Jody Grundon [00:00:00]: I realized real quick that, you know, hey, I wasn't an accountant, I was an entrepreneur and I just didn't realize it. I didn't enjoy accounting and I still don't today. I don't enjoy accounting, but I love the entrepreneur part of it and growing a business and seeing how successful I can get that business and then even more so helping other people be successful running their business, which is, which is even a bigger joy. James Kademan [00:00:27]: You have found Authentic Business Adventures, the business program that brings you the struggle stories and triumphant successes of business owners across the land. Downloadable audio episodes can be found in the podcast link found@drawincustomers.com we are locally interwritten by the bank of Sun Prairie Calls On Call Extraordinary Answering Service as well as the Bold Business Book and Live Switch. Today we are welcoming slash preparing to learn from Jody Grundon of Anders cpa. Which I feel like this is right about the time to start talking taxes. Jody, is that safe to say? Jody Grundon [00:01:00]: I. I guess so. But man, you don't ask me to ask tax questions, that's for sure. James Kademan [00:01:04]: No, so let's just break it down. What is Andrew cpa? Jody Grundon [00:01:09]: Yeah, so Andrew cpa. They're, they're a, one of the largest CPA firms in the nation. They're pretty large. They do a lot of different things, audit, tax. But the, the special that I run is on in what we call the Client Advisory Service Group, which is virtual CFO services. So that's something that, that I founded way back when. It was about 20 some years ago. A lot of CPA firms now you use that type of a service. Jody Grundon [00:01:31]: I actually founded it back, you know, 20 plus years ago. So it's been a great ride. Before it was, before it was even a thing. Yeah, it was one of those, one of those things that there was something called outsourced CFO or outsourced CPA service, which was outsourcing it to a foreign country type of thing. And I'm like, well, that's not what I meant. So I'm trying to figure out how, what can I call it? And I, and so I did. I got the big, the thesaurus, if you remember one of those things. I got one of those things out. Jody Grundon [00:01:55]: I'm like, what could I, what could I name this thing? I thought virtual sounds kind of cool. And, and then my partner's like, well, no one will think you're real. And I'm like, ah, they will. It'll catch on. And back then we had the yellow pages and so we, we did the yellow page Thing didn't really get a whole lot of traction. And then we decided, hey, we're going to go this, do this on the Internet. And so when we did on the Internet, it was kind of cool because nobody else was doing it. So it was one of those things that we are right away number one in the rankings. Jody Grundon [00:02:21]: No, yeah, we. James Kademan [00:02:22]: Back 20 years ago, man, that's. Jody Grundon [00:02:24]: Yeah, yeah. And we have, we, we. We haven't gone far from that. So we're still number one in the rankings today, which is kind of cool. James Kademan [00:02:31]: Be interesting to go back and just visit if you had a time machine or something like that and just visit. What was the Internet like 20 years ago? Jody Grundon [00:02:38]: It was brutal. James Kademan [00:02:39]: No YouTube. I don't even know if Google was around back then. I mean, yeah, totally different world. Jody Grundon [00:02:45]: It was. And it's kind of funny because everybody thought, well, that was. That's a big waste of money. Don't put money in there. Because we, we got out of the yellow page. Yellow page is what accounting firms are always in. Accounting firms, law firms, you name it. You had these big ads, you spent tons of money, and then you just kind of hope people called you. Jody Grundon [00:03:00]: And I didn't have the money back then, so it's like I bootstrapped my own company. So it was one of those things that I just couldn't compete with the big boys. And so the only, only thing we could do is try something different. I thought, hey, this Internet thing sounds great. Let's try it. And yeah. And everybody thought, hey, you're wasting your money. No one's going to call. Jody Grundon [00:03:19]: And the funny part is, nobody called. It took a long time to actually get going and figure it out and get people to realize what virtual CFO even was. It took about, I'd say, probably five to 10 years, really, to. To get a lot of traction for it. James Kademan [00:03:38]: Stick with it for a while. Jody Grundon [00:03:39]: Oh, yeah. It wasn't one of those things. Overnight successes. It was, hey, we started it. And they, they always say, you know, building the plane as it's flying in the air type of thing. That's exactly what we did. It was like, okay, what can we do to make this better? Improve this? And we were not profitable at all for probably eight, eight, nine, ten years of that. It was, it was one of those things. Jody Grundon [00:03:57]: My wife kept asking me, hey, when are we going to do something? You need to get a job? I'm like, no, no, no. Next year's gonna be the perfect year. And then next year coming, there'd be all these obstacles that we we didn't overcome. And then it's like, oh, well, next year will be the best year. And then finally next year ended up being the right year, and it just, it just blew up from there and became super profitable, super high growth. And, you know, we grew it to Gez, probably 10 million bucks or so before we actually sold it to Anders and became part of the, the larger accounting firm. James Kademan [00:04:25]: Gotcha. The irony of the CFO not making money. Jody Grundon [00:04:28]: Right. Yeah, I know. I tell everybody that too. The other irony is I can't, I can't add in my head, oh, wow, you got a CFO that has to use a calculator. Yeah. Which is kind of funny. And, and, and the funny part about that was on my, the very first. So I, I, I speak at a lot of conferences, and the very first conference I was invited to, I was super unprepared. Jody Grundon [00:04:47]: You know, it was one of those things. I just didn't know what to talk about. Here I'm supposed to talk about. Talk to 30 at that time, agency owners and, and teach them how to be profitable and all that kind of stuff. And the guy's like, do not, whatever you do, do not bring a PowerPoint. I'm like, okay, okay, I won't bring a PowerPoint. And I'm thinking, okay, now what do I do? What do I do? And, you know, the funny part about it was my luggage got stuck, got routed to the wrong airport. So I came in. Jody Grundon [00:05:13]: No, no, no luggage. I didn't have anything really to wear other than I had a T shirt. I had shorts and, and, and, and gym. Gym shoes. And I was like, what do I do? And I went to the local mall, bought some stuff, and, and at the time, my credit cards kept getting denied. And I was like, what's going on here? Why are my credit cards getting denied? This is weird. And, and so eventually, I, I, I, I looked across the mall. There was a Tommy Bahama store there. Jody Grundon [00:05:37]: And I thought, oh, that's kind of cool. That's a little different. I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll get some Tommy Bahama stuff, because he, he said, do not be the traditional accountant. I'm like, okay, that's kind of cool. And, but by the time I got, I got done, I was like, the only thing I had left was my debit card, because nothing was working. And so I went to this dinner after the fact and that. And you can imagine, here the finance guy comes in. You know, at that time, I was wearing an Italian Bahama shirt and like, hey, find this guy wearing Italian Bahama shirt. Jody Grundon [00:06:03]: I'm like, hey, I'll get the hors d' oeuvres for 30 business owners here. I'm thinking, this is kind of cool. And I go to pay with my debit card, and guess what? It got denied. I'm like, what the heck?

"A machine sitting in the garage... has no utility. It only has potential."Welcome to The Utility of Action. We have spent three episodes building the Skill, the Chassis (Body), and the Operating System (Mind). But a tuned engine is useless if it never leaves the driveway.In this chapter, Vulcan discusses the difference between Education (data storage) and Training (friction). He challenges you to audit your beliefs: Are you actually thinking, or are you just "dancing to the music" because it's the only tune you've ever heard?Key Topics:Potential vs. Utility: Why safety has no value.The Music Analogy: Are your beliefs just conditioning?The Broken Engine: Why the loudest person in the room is usually compensating.Ego vs. Understanding: Stop looking for the "Gotcha" moment.Don't just sit in storage. Interact with the world.#SundaySmoke #UtilityOfAction #Stoicism #Mindset #Potential #Vulcan

In this episode, Katherine Forrest and Scott Caravello return to their discussion of interactive deepfakes, highlighting state-of-the-art detection tools and techniques. From research frameworks such as the “GOTCHA” challenge and “active probing” via corneal reflections to commercial tools that can be integrated into popular video conferencing apps, they debrief the evolving tech landscape for spotting deepfakes. ## Learn More About Paul, Weiss's Artificial Intelligence practice: https://www.paulweiss.com/industries/artificial-intelligence

In the 6 AM hour, Larry O’Connor and Patrice Onwuka discussed: OPERATION UPDATE: Meeting Advances Effort to Identify USS Arizona Sailor VETERAN DEPORTATION: Dem Gotcha on Noem Backfires with Facts Where to find more about WMAL's morning show: Follow Podcasts on Apple Podcasts, Audible, and Omny Follow WMAL's "O'Connor and Company" on X: @WMALDC, @LarryOConnor, @JGunlock, @PatricePinkfile, and @HeatherHunterDC Facebook: WMALDC and Larry O'Connor Instagram: WMALDC Website: WMAL.com/OConnor-Company Episode: Friday, December 12, 2025 / 6 AM HourSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

(00:00-20:15) Martin makes NBA picks, you make money. Tim may be relegated from The Spread Zone. Grayson Allen. Trout's terrific, salmon sucks. Matt Holliday joining us at 9:30. Joe Buck going in to the HOF. Six broadcasters in the pro football and pro baseball HOF. Iggy on QFTA. Martin's gotcha journalism. Down to clown. Here's your pizza, wanna hop in the sack?(20:23-45:02) The news that broke yesterday with former Michigan head coach Sherrone Moore. Potential replacements. Kaelin Deboer? Biff Poggi? Drink? Brian Kelly? Jedd Fisch? How many Michigan alum are listening to this program right now? Get your money up, not your funny up. Paywall flexes. Mt. Rushmore of subscriptions.(45:12-1:09:40) An ode to the year 1975. We can't turn back time, can we? Area code warfare is heating up. Tim and Chairman have new hand signals to communicate. Robby Fabbri back with The Note. John Denton reporting that the Mets may have some interest in Wilson Contreras. I'll be your huckleberry. He's a catcher who can't. Guys lived harder back then.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Episode 443 of the Everybody ESL podcast is a mini episode that teaches you the informal word “gotcha.” Send your questions about English and your comments and suggestions to EverybodyESL@gmail.com. (And let me know if you'd like to record the introduction to a future episode.)

How to Build a Winning Strategy for Your B2B Brand In a fast-paced business environment, marketers, agencies, and consultants must proactively help clients differentiate their brands in the marketplace. One way of doing this is by analyzing the strategy, messaging, and brand positioning, both for their own brands and key competitors. So how can teams conduct this kind of brand research and competitive analysis in a way that's insightful, efficient, and actionable for planning the next steps? Tune in as the B2B Marketers on Mission Podcast presents the Marketing DEMO Lab Series, where we sit down with Clay Ostrom (Founder, Map & Fire) and his SmokeLadder platform designed for brand research, messaging and positioning analysis, and competitive benchmarking. In this episode, Clay explained the platform's origins and features, emphasizing its role in analyzing brand positioning, core messaging, and competitive landscapes. He also stressed the importance of clear, consistent brand positioning and messaging, and how standardized make it easier to compare brands across multiple business values. Clay also highlighted the value of objective, data-driven analysis to identify brand strengths, weaknesses, and gaps, and how tools like SmokeLadder can save significant time in gathering insights to build trust with clients. He provided practical steps for generating, refining, and exporting brand messaging and analysis for internal or client-facing use. Finally, Clay also discussed how action items and recommendations generated from analysis can immediately support smart brand strategy decisions and expedite trust-building with clients. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4_o1PzF1Kk Topics discussed in episode: [1:31] The purpose behind building SmokeLadder and why it matters for B2B teams [12:00] A walkthrough of the SmokeLadder platform and how it works [14:51] SmokeLadder's core features [17:48] How positioning scores and category rankings are calculated [35:36] How differentiation and competitors are analyzed inside SmokeLadder [44:07] How SmokeLadder builds messaging and generates targeted personas [50:24] The key benefits and unique capabilities that set SmokeLadder apart Companies and links: Clay Ostrom Map & Fire SmokeLadder Transcript Christian Klepp  00:00 In an increasingly competitive B2B landscape, marketers, agencies and consultants, need to proactively find ways to help their clients stand out amidst the digital noise. One way of doing this is by analyzing the strategy, messaging and positioning of their own brands and those of their competitors. So how can they do this in a way that’s insightful, efficient and effective? Welcome to this first episode of the B2B Marketers in the Mission podcast Demo Lab Series, and I’m your host, Christian Klepp. Today, I’ll be talking to Clay Ostrom about this topic. He’s the owner and founder of the branding agency Map and Fire, and the creator of the platform Smoke Ladder that we’ll be talking about today. So let’s dive in. Christian Klepp  00:42 All right, and I’m gonna say Clay Ostrom. Welcome to this first episode of the Demo Lab Series. Clay Ostrom  00:50 I am super excited and very honored to be the first guest on this new series. It’s awesome. Christian Klepp  00:56 We are honored to have you here. And you know, let’s sit tight, or batten down the hatches and buckle up, and whatever other analogy you want to throw in there, because we are going to unpack a lot of interesting features and discuss interesting topics around the platform that you’ve built. And I think a good place to start, perhaps Clay before we start doing a walk through of the platform is, but let’s start at the very beginning. What motivated you to create this platform called Smoke Ladder. Clay Ostrom  01:31 So we should go all the way back to my childhood. I always dreamed of, you know, working on brand and positioning. You know, that was something I’ve always thought of since the early days, but no, but I do. I own an agency called Map and Fire, so I’ve been doing this kind of work for over 10 years now, and have worked with lots and lots of different kinds of clients, and over that time, developed different frameworks and a point of view about how to do this kind of work, and when the AI revolution kind of hit us all, it just really struck me that this was an opportunity to take a lot of that thinking and a lot of that, you know, again, my perspective on how to do this work and productize that and turn it into something that could be used by people when we’re not engaged with them, in some kind of service offering. So, so that was kind of the kernel of it. I actually have a background in computer science and product. So it was sort of this natural Venn diagram intersection of I can do some product stuff, I can do brand strategy stuff. So let’s put it together and build something. Christian Klepp  02:46 And the rest, as they say, is history. Clay Ostrom  02:49 The rest, as they say, is a lot of nights and weekends and endless hours slaving away at trying to build something useful. Christian Klepp  02:58 Sure, sure, that certainly is part of it, too. Clay Ostrom  03:01 Yeah. Christian Klepp  03:02 Let’s not keep the audience in suspense for too long here, right? Like, let’s start with the walk through. And before you share your screen, maybe I’ll set this up a little bit, right? Because you, as you said, like, you know, you’ve built this platform. It’s called Smoke Ladder, which I thought was a really clever name. It’s, you like to describe it as, like, your favorite SEO (Search Engine Optimization) tool, but for brand research and analysis. So I would say, like, walk us through how somebody would use this platform, like, whether they be a marketer that’s already been like in the industry for years, or is starting out, or somebody working at a brand or marketing agency, and how does the platform address these challenges or questions that people have regarding brand strategy, analysis and research? Clay Ostrom  03:49 Yeah, yeah. I use that analogy of the SEO thing, just because, especially early on, I was trying to figure out the best way to describe it to someone who hasn’t seen it before. I feel like it’s a, I’m not going to fall into the trap of saying, this is the only product like this, but it has its own unique twists with what it can do. And I felt like SEO tools are something everybody has touched at one point or another. So I was using this analogy of, it’s like the s, you know, Semrush of positioning and messaging or Ahrefs, depending on your if you’re a Coke or Pepsi person. But I always felt like that was just a quick way to give a little idea of the fact that it’s both about analyzing your own brand, but it’s also about competitive analysis and being able to see what’s going on in the market or in your landscape, and looking specifically at what your competitors are doing and what their strengths and weaknesses are. So does that resonate with you in terms of, like, a shorthand way, I will say, I don’t. I don’t say that. It’s super explicitly on the website, but it’s been in conversation. Christian Klepp  05:02 No, absolutely, absolutely, that resonated with me. The only part that didn’t resonate with me is that I’m neither a coke or a Pepsi person. I’m more of a ginger ale type of guy. I digress. But yeah, let’s what don’t you share your screen, and let’s walk through this, right? Like, okay, if a marketing person were like, use the platform to do some research on, perhaps that marketers, like own company and the competitors as well, right? Like, what would they do? Clay Ostrom  05:32 Yeah, so that’s, that is, like you were saying, there’s, sort of, I guess, a few different personas of people who would potentially use this. And initially I was thinking a little more about both in house, people who, you know, someone who’s working on a specific brand, digging really deep on their own brand, whether they’re, you know, the marketing lead or whatever, maybe they’re the founder, and then this other role of agency owners, or people who work at an agency where they are constantly having to look at new brands, new categories, and quickly get up to speed on what those brands are doing and what’s the competitive space look like, you know, for that brand. And that’s something that, if you work at an agency, which obviously we both have our own agencies, we do this stuff weekly. I mean, every time a new lead comes in, we have to quickly get up to speed and understand something about what they do. And one of the big gaps that I found, and I’d be curious to kind of hear your thoughts on this, but I’ve had a lot of conversations with other agency owners, and I think one of the biggest gaps is often that brands are just not always that great at explaining their own brand or positioning or differentiation to you, and sometimes they have some documentation around it, but a lot of times they don’t. A lot of it’s word of mouth, and that makes it really hard to do work for them. If whatever you’re doing for them, whether that’s maybe you are working on SEO or maybe you’re working on paid ads or social or content, you have to know what the brand is doing and kind of what they’re again, what their strengths and weaknesses are, so that you can talk about that. I mean, do you come across that a lot in your work? Christian Klepp  07:33 How do I say this without offending anybody? I find, I mean jokes aside, I find, more often than not, in the especially in the B2B space, which is an area that I operate in, I find 888 point five times out of 10. We are dealing with companies that have a they, have a very rude, rudimentary, like, framework of something that remotely resembles some form of branding. And I know that was a very long winded answer, but it’s kind of sort of there, but not really, if you know what I mean. Clay Ostrom  08:17 Yeah. Christian Klepp  08:17 And there have been other extreme cases where they’ve got the logo and the website, and that’s as far as their branding goals. And I would say that had they had all these, this discipline, like branding system and structure in place, then people like maybe people like you and I will be out on a job, right and it’s something, and I’m sure you’ve come across this, and we’ll probably dig into this later, but like you, it’s something I’ve come across several times, especially in the B2B space, where branding is not taken seriously until it becomes serious. I know that sounds super ironic, right, but, and it’s to the point of this platform, right, which we’re going to dig into in a second, but it’s, it’s things, for instance, positioning right, like, are you? Are you, in fact, strategically positioned against competitors? Is your messaging resonating with, I would imagine, especially in the B2B context, with the multiple group target groups that you have, or that your company is, is going after? Right? Is that resonating, or is this all like something that I call the internal high five? You’ve this has all been developed to please internal stakeholders and and then you take it to market, and it just does not, it just does not resonate with the target audience at all. Right? So there’s such a complex plethora of challenges here, right? That people like yourself and like you and I are constantly dealing with, and I think that’s also part of the reason why I would say a platform like this is important, because it helps to not just aggregate data. I mean, certainly it does that too, but it helps. To put things properly, like into perspective at speed. I think that might be, that might be something that you would have talked about later, but it does this at speed, because I think, from my own experience, one of the factors in our world that sometimes works against us is time, right? Clay Ostrom  10:19 No, I totally agree, yeah, and, you know, we’re lucky, I guess would be the word that we are often hired to work on a company strategy with them and help them clarify these things. Christian Klepp  10:33 Absolutely. Clay Ostrom  10:34 There are a million other flavors of agencies out there who are being hired to execute on work for a brand, and not necessarily being brought in to redefine, you know what the brand, you know they’re positioning and their messaging and some of these fundamental things, so they’re kind of stuck with whatever they get. And like you said, a lot of times it’s not much. It might be a logo and a roughly put together website, and maybe not a whole lot else. So, yeah, but I think your other point about speed is that was a huge part of this. I think the market is only accelerating right now, because it’s becoming so much easier to start up new companies and new brands and new products. And now we’ve got vibe coding, so you can technically build a product in a day, maybe launch it the next day, start marketing it, you know, by the weekend. And all of this is creating noise and competition, and it’s all stuff that we have to deal with as marketers. We have to understand the landscape. We’ve got to quickly be able to analyze all these different brands, see where the strengths and weaknesses are and all that stuff. So… Christian Klepp  11:46 Absolutely. Clay Ostrom  11:46 But, yeah, that, I think that the speed piece is a huge part of this for sure. Christian Klepp  11:51 Yeah. So, so we’re okay, so we’re on the I guess this, this will probably be the homepage. So just walk us through what, what a marketing person would do if they want to use this platform, yeah? Clay Ostrom  12:00 So the very first thing you do when you come in, and this was when I initially conceived of this product, one of the things that I really wanted was the ability to have very quick feedback, be able to get analysis for whatever brand you’re looking at, you know, right away to be able to get some kind of, you know, insight or analysis done. So the first thing you can do, and you can do this literally, from the homepage of the website, you can enter in a URL for a brand, come into the product, even before you’ve created an account, you can come in and you can do an initial analysis, so you can put in whatever URL you’re looking at, could be yours, could be a competitor, and run that initial analysis. What we’re looking at here, this is, if you do create an account, this is, this becomes your, as we say, like Home Base, where you can save brands that you’re looking at. You can see your history, all that good stuff. And it just gives you some quick bookmarks so that you can kind of flip back and forth between, maybe it’s your brand, maybe it’s some of the competitors you’re looking at and then it gives you just some quick, kind of high level directional info. And I kind of break it up into these different buckets. Clay Ostrom  13:23 And again, I’d love to kind of hear if this is sort of how you think about it, too. But there’s sort of these different phases when you’re working on a brand. And again, this is sort of from an agency perspective, but you first got the sort of the research and the pitch piece. So this is before maybe you’re even working with them. You’re trying to get an understanding of what they do. Then we have discovery and onboarding, where we’re digging in a little bit deeper. We’re trying to really put together, what does the brand stand for, what are their strengths and weaknesses? And then we have the deeper dive, the strategy and differentiation. And this is where we’re really going in and getting more granular with the specific value points that they offer, doing some of that messaging analysis, finding, finding some of the gaps of the things that they’re talking about or not talking about, and going in deeper. So it kind of break it up into these buckets, based on my experience of how we engage with clients. Does that? Does that make sense to you, like, does that? Christian Klepp  14:28 It does make sense, I think. But what could be helpful for the audience is because this, this almost looks like it’s a pre cooked meal. All right, so what do we do we try another I mean, I think you use Slack for the analysis. Why don’t we use another brand, and then just pop it into that analysis field, and then see what it comes out with. Clay Ostrom  14:51 So the nice thing about this is, if you are looking at a brand that’s been analyzed, you’re going to get the data up really quickly. It’ll be basically pop up instantly. But you can analyze a brand from scratch as well. Just takes about a minute or so, basically, to kind of do some of the analysis. So for the sake of a demo, it’s a little easier just to kind of look at something that we’ve got in there. But if it’s a brand that you know, maybe you’re looking at a competitor for one of your brands, you know, there’s a good chance, because we’ve got about 6000 brands that we’ve analyzed in here, that there’s a good chance there’ll be some info on them. But so this is pipe drive. So whoever’s not familiar Pipedrive is, you know, it’s a CRM  (Customer Relationship Management), it’s, it’s basically, you know, it’s a lighter version of a HubSpot or Salesforce basically track deals and opportunities for business, but this so I flipped over. I don’t know if it was clear there, but I flipped over to this brand brief tab. And this is where we we get, essentially, a high level view of some key points about the brand and and I think about this as this would be something that you would potentially share with a client if you were, you know, working with them and you wanted to review the brand with them and make sure that your analysis is on point, but you’ll see it’s kind of giving you some positioning scores, where you rank from a category perspective, message clarity, and then we’ve got things like a quick overview, positioning summary, who their target persona is, in this case, sales manager, sales operation lead, and some different value points. And then it starts to get a little more granular. We get into like key competitors, Challenger brands. We do a little SWOT (Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities, and Threats) analysis, and then maybe one of the more important parts is some of these action items. So what do we do with this? Yeah, and obviously, these are, these are starting points. This is not, it’s not going to come in and, you know, instantly be able to tell you strategically, exactly what to do, but it’s going to give you some ideas of based on the things we’ve seen. Here are some reasonable points that you might want to be looking at to, you know, improve the brand. Make it make it stronger. Christian Klepp  17:13 Gotcha. Gotcha. Now, this is all great clay, but like, I think, for the benefit of the audience, can we scroll back up, please. And let’s just walk through these one by one, because I think it’s important for the audience/potential future users,/ customers of Smoke Ladder, right? To understand, to understand this analysis in greater depth, and also, like, specifically, like, let’s start with a positioning score right, like, out of 100 like, what is this? What is this based on? And how was this analyzed? Let’s start with that. Clay Ostrom  17:48 Yeah, and this is where the platform really started. And I’m going to actually jump over to the positioning tab, because this will give us the all the detail around this particular feature. But this is, this was where I began the product this. I kind of think of this as being, in many ways, sort of the heart and soul of it. And when I mentioned earlier about this being based on our own work and frameworks and how we approach this, this is very much the case with this. This is, you know, the approach we use with the product is exactly how we work with clients when we’re evaluating their positioning. And it’s, it’s basically, it’s built off a series of scores. And what we have here are 24 different points of business value, which, if we zoom in just a little bit down here, we can see things like reducing risk, vision, lowering cost, variety, expertise, stability, etc. So there’s 24 of these that we look at, and it’s meant to be a way that we can look across different brands and compare and contrast them. So it’s creating, like, a consistent way of looking at brands, even if they’re not in the same category, or, you know, have slightly different operating models, etc. But what we do is we go in and we score every brand on each of these 24 points. And if we scroll down here a little bit, we can see the point of value, the exact score they got, the category average, so how it compares against, you know, all the other brands we’ve analyzed, and then a little bit of qualitative information about why they got the score. Christian Klepp  19:27 Sorry, Clay, Can I just jump in for a second so these, these attributes, or these key values that you had in the graph at the top right, like, are these consistent throughout regardless of what brand is being analyzed, or the least change. Clay Ostrom  19:42 It’s consistent. Christian Klepp  19:43 Consistent? Clay Ostrom  19:44 Yeah, and that was one of the sort of strategic decisions we had to make with the product. Was, you know, there’s a, maybe another version of this, where you do different points depending on maybe the category, or, you know, things like that. But I wanted to do it consistent because, again, it allows us to look at every brand through the same lens. It doesn’t mean that every brand you know there are certain points of value that just aren’t maybe relevant for a particular brand, and that’s fine, they just won’t score as highly in those but at least it gives us a consistent way to look at so when you’re looking at 10 different competitors, you know you’ve got a consistent way to look at them together,. Christian Klepp  20:26 Right, right, right. Okay, okay, all right, thanks for that. Now let’s go down to the next section there, where you’ve got, like this table with like four different columns here. So you mentioned that these are being scored against other brands in their category. Like, can you share it with the audience? Like, how many other brands are being analyzed here? Clay Ostrom  20:51 Yeah, well, it depends on the category. So again, we’ve got six, you know, heading towards 7000 brands that we’ve analyzed collectively. Each category varies a little bit, but, you know, some categories, we have more brands than others. But what this allows us to do is, again, to quickly look at this and say, okay, for pipe drive, a big focus for pipe drive is organization, simplification. You know, one of their big value props is we’re an easier tool to use than Salesforce or HubSpot. You can get up to speed really quickly. You don’t have all the setup and configurations and all that kind of stuff. So this is showing us that, yes, like their messaging, their content, their brand, does, in fact, do a good job of making it clear that simplicity is a big part of pipe drive’s message. And they do that by talking about it a lot in their messaging, having case studies, having testimonials, all these things that support it. And that’s how we come up with these scores. Is by saying, like the brand emphasizes these points well, they talk about it clearly, and that’s what we base it on. Christian Klepp  22:04 Okay, okay. Clay Ostrom  22:06 But as you come, I was just gonna say as you come down here, you can see, so the green basically means that they score well above average for that particular point. Yellow is, you know, kind of right around average, or maybe slightly above, and then red means that they’re below average for that particular point. So for example, like variety of tools, they don’t emphasize that as much with pipe drive, maybe compared to, again, like a Salesforce or a HubSpot that has a gazillion tools, pipe drive, that’s not a big focus for them. So they don’t score as highly there, but you can kind of just get a quick view of, okay, here are the things that they’re really strong with, and here are the things that maybe they’re, you know, kind of weak or below average. Christian Klepp  22:58 Yeah, yeah. Well, that’s certainly interesting, because I, you know, I’ve, I’ve used the, I’ve used the platform for analyzing some of my clients, competitor brands. And, you know, when I’m looking at this, like analysis with the scoring, with the scoring sheet, it, I think it will also be interesting perhaps in future, because you’ve got a very detailed breakdown of, okay, the factors and how they’re scored, and what the brand value analysis is also, because, again, in the interest of speed and time, it’d be great if the platform can also churn out maybe a one to two sentence like, summary of what is this data telling us, right? Because I’m thinking back to my early days as a product manager, and we would spend hours, like back then on Excel spreadsheets. I’m dating myself a little bit here, but um, and coming up with this analysis and charts, but presenting that to senior management, all they wanted to know was the one to two sentence summary of like, come on. What are you telling me with all these charts, like, what is the data telling you that we need to know? Right? Clay Ostrom  24:07 I know it’s so funny. We again, as strategists and researchers, we love to nerd out about the granular details, but you’re right. When you’re talking to a leader at a business, it does come down to like, okay, great. What do we do? And so, and I flipped back over to slacks. I knew I had already generated this but, but we’re still in the positioning section here, but we have this get insights feature. So basically it will look at all those scores and give you kind of, I think, similar to what you’re describing. Like, here’s three takeaways from what we’re seeing. Okay, okay, great, yeah, so we don’t want to leave you totally on your own to have to figure it all out. We’ll give you, give you a little helping hand. Christian Klepp  24:53 Yeah. You don’t want to be like in those western movies, you’re on your own kid. Clay Ostrom  24:59 Yeah. We try not to strand you again. There’s a lot of data here. I think that’s one of the strengths and and challenges with the platform, is that we try to give you a lot of data. And for some people, you may not want to have to sift through all of it. You might want just sort of give me the three points here. Christian Klepp  25:19 Absolutely, absolutely. And at the very least they can start pointing you in the right direction, and then you could be, you could then, like, through your own initiative, and perhaps dig a little bit deeper and perhaps find some other insights that may be, may be relevant, right? Clay Ostrom  25:35 Totally. Christian Klepp  25:36 Hey, it’s Christian Klepp here. We’ll get back to the episode in a second. But first, I’d like to tell you about a new series that we’re launching on our show. As the B2B landscape evolves, marketers need to adapt and leverage the latest marketing tools and software to become more efficient. Enter B2B Marketers on a Mission Marketing Demo Lab where experts discuss the latest tools and software that empower you to become a better B2B marketer. Tune in as we chat with product experts. Provide unbiased product reviews, give advice and deliver insights into real world applications and actionable tips on tools and technologies for B2B marketing. Subscribe to the Marketing Demo Lab, YouTube channel and B2B Marketers on a Mission, on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your favorite podcasts. Christian Klepp  26:21 All right. Now, back to the show, if we can, if we could jump back, sorry, to the, I think it was the brand brief, right? Like, where we where we started out, and I said, let’s, let’s dig deeper. Okay, so then, then we have, okay, so we talked about positioning score. Now we’re moving on to category rank and message clarity score. What does that look like? Clay Ostrom  26:41 Yeah. So the category rank is, it’s literally just looking at the positioning score that you’ve gotten for the brand and then telling you within this category, where do you sort of fall in the ranking, essentially, or, like, you know, how do we, you know, for comparing the score against all the competitors, where do you fall? So you can see, with Slack, they’re right in the middle. And it’s interesting, because with a product like Slack, even though we all now know what slack is and what it does and everything. Christian Klepp  27:18 Yeah. Clay Ostrom  27:19 The actual messaging and content that they have now, I think maybe doesn’t do as good of a job as it maybe did once upon a time, and it’s gotten as products grow and brands grow, they tend to get more vague, a little more broad with what they talk about, and that kind of leads to softer positioning. So that’s sort of what we’re seeing reflected here. And then the third score is the message clarity score, which we can jump into, like, a whole different piece. Christian Klepp  27:48 Four on a tennis not a very high score, right? Clay Ostrom  27:52 Yeah. And again, I think it’s a product, of, we can kind of jump into that section. Christian Klepp  27:57 Yeah, let’s do that, yeah. Clay Ostrom  27:59 But it’s, again, a product, I think of Slack being now a very mature product that is has gotten sort of a little vague, maybe a little broader, with their messaging. But the message clarity score, we basically have kind of two parts to this on the left hand side are some insights that we gather based on the messaging. So what’s your category, quick synopsis of the product. But then we also do some things, like… Christian Klepp  28:33 Confusing part the most confusing. Clay Ostrom  28:36 Honestly to me, as I get I’d love to hear your experience with this, but coming into a new brand, this is sometimes one of the most enlightening parts, because it shows me quickly where some gaps in what we’re talking about, and in this case, just kind of hits on what we were just saying a minute ago. Of the messaging is overloaded with generic productivity buzzwords, fails to clearly differentiate how Slack is better than email or similar tools, etc. But also, this is another one that I really like, and I use this all the time, which is the casual description. So rather than this technical garbage jargon, you know, speak, just give me. Give it to me in plain English, like we’re just chatting. And so this description of it’s a workplace chat app for teams to message, collaborate, share files. Like, okay, cool. Like, yeah, you know, I get it. Yeah, I already know what slack is. But if I didn’t, that would tell me pretty well. Christian Klepp  29:33 Absolutely, yeah, yeah. No, my experience with this is has been, you know, you and I have been in the branding space for a while. So for the trained eye, when you look at messaging, you’ll know if it’s good or not, right. And we come I mean, I’m sure you do the same clay, but I also come to my own like conclusions based on experience of like, okay, so why do I think that that’s good messaging, or why do I think that that’s confusing messaging? Or it falls short, and why and how can that be improved? But it’s always good to have validation with either with platforms like this, where you have a you have AI, or you have, you have a software that you can use that analyzes, like, for example, like the messaging on a website, and it dissects that and says, Well, okay, so this is what they’re getting, right? So there’s a scoring for that, so it’s in the green, and then this is, this is where it gets confusing, right? So even you run that through, you run that through the machine, and the machine analyzes it as like, Okay, we can’t clearly, clearly define what it is they’re doing based on the messaging, right? And for me, that’s always a it’s good. It’s almost like getting a second doctor’s opinion, right? And then you go, Aha. So I we’ve identified the symptoms now. So let’s find the penicillin, right? Like, let’s find the remedy for this, right? Clay Ostrom  30:56 Yeah, well, and I like what you said there, because part of the value, I think, with this is it’s an objective perspective on the brand, so it doesn’t have any baggage. It’s coming in with fresh eyes, the same way a new customer would come into your website, where they don’t know really much about you, and they have to just take what you’re giving at face value about what you present. And we as people working on brands get completely blinded around what’s actually working, what’s being communicated. There’s so much that we take for granted about what we already know about the brand. And this comes in and just says, Okay, I’m just, I’m just taking what you give me, and I’m going to tell you what I see, and I see some gaps around some of these things. You know, I don’t have the benefit of sitting in your weekly stand up meeting and hearing all the descriptions of what you’re actually doing. Christian Klepp  31:59 I’m sorry to jump in. I’m interested to know, like, just, just based on what we’ve been reviewing so far, like, what has your experience been showing this kind of analysis to clients, and how do they respond to some of this data, for example, that you know, you’re walking us through right now? Clay Ostrom  32:18 Yeah, I think it’s been interesting. Honestly, I think it can sometimes feel harsh. And I think again, as someone who’s both run an agency and also built worked on brands, we get attached to our work on an emotional level. Christian Klepp  32:42 Absolutely. Clay Ostrom  32:42 Even if we think about it as, you know, this is just work, and it’s, you know, whatever, we still build up connections with our work and we want it to be good. And so I think there’s sometimes a little bit of a feeling of wow, like that’s harsh, or I would have expected or thought we would have done better or scored better in certain areas, but that is almost always followed up with but I’m so glad to know where, where we’re struggling, because now I can fix it. I can actually know what to focus on to fix, and that, to me, is what it’s all about, is, yes, there’s a little bit of feelings attached to some of these things, maybe, but at the end of the day, we really want it to be good. We want it to be clear. We don’t want to be a 4 out of 10. We want to be a 10 out of 10. And what specifically do we need to do to get there? And that’s really what we’re trying to reveal with this. So I think, you know, everybody’s a little different, but I would say the reactions are typically a mix of that. It’s like, maybe an ouch, but a Oh, good. Let’s work on it. Christian Klepp  33:55 Absolutely, absolutely. Okay. So we’ve got brand summary, we’ve got fundamentals, then quality of messaging is the other part of it, right? Clay Ostrom  34:02 So, yeah, so this, this is, this is where the actual 4 out of 10 comes. We have these 10 points that we look at and we say, Okay, are you communicating these things clearly? Are you communicating who your target customer is, your category, your offering, where you’re differentiated benefits? Do you have any kind of concrete claim about what you do to support you know what you’re what you’re selling? Is the messaging engaging? Is it concise? You’ll see here a 7% on concise. That’s basically telling us that virtually no brands do a good job of being concise. Only about 7% get a green check mark on this, and kind of similar with the jargon and the vague words big struggle points with almost every brand. Christian Klepp  34:55 Streamline collaboration. Clay Ostrom  34:58 So we can see here with Slack. You know some of the jargon we got, KPIs (Key Performance Indicators), MQLs (Marketing Qualified Lead), if you’re in the space, you could argue like, oh, I kind of know what those things are. But depending on your role, you may not always know. In something like Salesforce marketing cloud, unless you’re a real Salesforce nerd, you probably have no idea what that is. But again, it’s just a way to quickly identify some of those weak points, things that we could improve to make our message more clear. Christian Klepp  35:27 Yes, yes. Okay, so that was the messaging analysis correct? Clay Ostrom  35:33 Yeah. Christian Klepp  35:33 Yeah. Okay. So what else have we got? Clay Ostrom  35:36 Yeah, so I think one other thing we could look at just for a sec, is differentiation, and this is this kind of plays off of what we looked at a minute ago with the positioning scores. But this is a way for us to look head to head with two different brands. So in this case, we’ve got Slack in the red and we’ve got Discord in the greenish blue. And I think of these, these patterns, as sort of the fingerprint of your brand. So where you Where are you strong? Where are you weak? And if we can overlay those two fingerprints on top of each other, we can see, where do we have advantages, and where does our competitor have advantages? So if we come down, we can sort of see, and this is again, for the nerds like me, to be able to come in and go deep, do kind of a deep dive on specifically, why did, why does Discord score better than Slack in certain areas. And at the bottom here we can see a kind of a quick summary. So slack is stronger in simplification, saving time, Discord has some better messaging around generating revenue, lowering costs, marketability. But again, this gives us a way to think about what are the things we want to double down on? So what do we want to actually be known for in the market? Because we can’t be known for everything. You know, buyers can maybe only remember a couple things about us. What are those couple things where we’re really strong, where we really stand out, and we’ve got some separation from the competitors. Christian Klepp  37:18 Right, okay, okay, just maybe we take a step back here, because I think this is great. It’s very detailed. It gets a bit granular, but I think it’s also going back to a conversation that you and I had previously about, like, Okay, why is it so important to be armed with this knowledge, especially if you’re in the marketing role, or perhaps even an agency talking to a potential client going in there already armed with the information about their competitors. And we were talking about this being a kind of like a trust building mechanism, right? For lack of a better description, right? Clay Ostrom  38:03 Yeah, I think to me, what I like about this, and again, this does come out of 10 years of doing work, this kind of work with clients as well, is it’s so easy to fall into a space of soft descriptions around things like positioning and just sort of using vague, you know, wordings or descriptions, and when you can actually put a number on it, which, again, it’s subjective. This isn’t. This isn’t an objective metric, but it’s a way for us to compare and contrast. It allows us to have much more productive conversations with clients, where we can say we looked at your brand, we we what based on our analysis, we see that you’re scoring a 10 and a 9 on simplicity and organization, for example. Is that accurate to you like do you think that’s what you all are emphasizing the most? Does that? Does that resonate and at the same time, we can say, but your competitors are really focused on there. They have a strong, strong message around generating revenue and lowering costs for their customers. Right now, you’re not really talking about that. Is that accurate? Is that like, what you is that strategically, is that what you think you should be doing so really quickly, I’ve now framed a conversation that could have been very loose and kind of, you know, well, what do you think your strategy is about? What do you know? And instead, I can say, we see you being strong in these three points. We see your competitors being strong in these three points. What do you think about that? And I think that kind of clarity just makes the work so much more productive with clients, or just again, working on your own brand internally. So what do you think about that kind of perspective? Christian Klepp  40:08 Yeah, no, no, I definitely agree with that. It’s always and I’ve been that type of person anyway that you know you go into a especially with somebody that hasn’t quite become a client yet, right? One of the most important things is also, how should I put this? Certainly the trust building part of it needs to be there. The other part is definitely a demonstration of competence and ability, but it’s also that you’ve been proactive and done your homework, versus like, Okay, I’m I’m just here as an order taker, right? And let’s just tell me what to do, and I’ll do it right? A lot and especially, I think this has been a trend for a long time already, but a lot of the clients that I’ve worked with now in the past, they want to, they’re looking for a partner that’s not just thinking with them, it’s someone that’s thinking ahead of them. And this type of work, you know what we’re seeing here on screen, this is the type of work that I would consider thinking ahead of them, right? Clay Ostrom  41:18 No, I agree. I think you framed that really well. Of we’re trying to build trust, because if we’re going to make any kind of recommendations around a change or a shift, they have to believe that we know what we’re talking about, that we’re competent, that we’ve done the work. And I think I agree with you. I think like this, it’s kind of funny, like we all, I think, on some base level, are attracted to numbers and scores. It just gives us something to latch on to. But I think it also, like you said, it gives you a feeling that you’ve done your work, that you’ve done your homework, you’ve studied, you’ve you’ve done some analysis that they themselves may have never done on this level. And that’s a big value. Christian Klepp  42:08 Yes, and a big part of the reason just to, just to build on what you said, a big part of the reason why they haven’t done this type of work is because it’s not so much. The cost is certainly one part of it, but it’s the time, it’s a time factor and the resource and the effort that needs to be put into it. Because, you know, like, tell me if you’ve never heard this one before, but there are some, there are some companies that we’ve been working with that don’t actually have a clearly, like, you know, a clear document on who their their target personas are, yeah, or their or their ICPs, never mind the buyer’s journey map. They don’t, they don’t even have the personas mapped out, right? Clay Ostrom  42:52 100% Yeah, it’s, and it’s, I think you’re right. It’s, it’s a mix of time and it’s a mix of just experience where, if you are internal with a brand, you don’t do this kind of work all the time. You might do it at the beginning. Maybe you do a check in every once in a while, but you need someone who’s done this a lot with a lot of different brands so that they can give you guidance through this kind of framework. But so it’s, you know, so some of it is a mix of, you know, we don’t have the time always to dig in like this. But some of it is we don’t even know how to do it, even if we did have the time. So it’s hopefully giving, again, providing some different frameworks and different ways of looking at it. Christian Klepp  43:41 Absolutely, absolutely. So okay, so we’ve gone through. What is it now, the competitor comparison. What else does the platform provide us that the listeners and the audience should be paying attention to here? Clay Ostrom  43:55 So I’ll show you two more quick things. So one is this message building section. So this is… Christian Klepp  44:03 Are you trying to put me out of a job here Clay? Clay Ostrom  44:07 Well, I’ll say this. So far in my experience with this, it’s not going to put us out of a job, but it is going to hopefully make our job easier and better. It’s going to make us better at the work we do. And that’s really, I think that’s, I think that’s kind of, most people’s impression of AI at this point is that it’s not quite there to replace us, but it’s sure, certainly can enhance what we do. Christian Klepp  44:36 Yeah, you’ll excuse me, I couldn’t help but throw that one out. Clay Ostrom  44:38 Yeah, I know, trust me, I’m this. It’s like I’m building a product that, in a sense, is undercutting, you know, the work that I do. So it is kind of a weird thing, but this message building section, which is a new part of the platform. It will come in, and you can see on the right hand side. And there’s sort of a quick summary of all these different elements that we’ve already analyzed. And then it’s going to give you some generated copy ideas, including, if I zoom in a little bit here, we’ve got an eyebrow category. This is again for Slack. It’s giving us a headline idea, stay informed without endless emails. Sub headline call to action, three challenges that your customers are facing, and then three points about your solution that help address those for customers. So it’s certainly not writing all of your copy for you, but if you’re starting from scratch, or you’re working on something new, or even if you’re trying to refresh a brand. I think this can be helpful to give you some messaging that’s hopefully clear. That’s something that I think a lot of messaging misses, especially in B2B, it’s, it’s not always super clear, like what you even do. Christian Klepp  45:56 Don’t get me started. Clay Ostrom  45:59 So hopefully it’s clear. It’s, you know, again, it’s giving you some different ideas. And that you’ll see down here at the bottom, you can, you can iterate on this. So we’ve got several versions. You can actually come in and, you know, you can edit it yourself. So if you say, like, well, I like that, but not quite that, you know, I can, you know, get my human touch on it as well. But yeah, so it’s a place to iterate on message. Christian Klepp  46:25 You can kind of look at it like, let’s say, if you’re writing a blog article, and this will give you the outline, right? Yeah. And then most of the AI that I’ve worked with to generate outlines, they’re not quite there. But again, if you’re starting from zero and you want to go from zero to 100 Well, that’ll, that’ll at least get you to 40 or 50, right? But I’m curious to know, because we’re looking at this now, and I think this, I mean, for me, this is, this is fascinating, but, like, maybe, maybe this will be part of your next iteration. But will this, will this generate messaging that’s already SEO optimized. Clay Ostrom  47:02 You know, it’s not specifically geared towards that, but I would say that it ends up being maybe more optimized than a lot of other messaging because it puts such an emphasis on clarity, it naturally includes words and phrases that I think are commonly used in the space more so than you know, maybe just kind of typical off the shelf Big B2B messaging, Christian Klepp  47:27 Gotcha. I had a question on the target persona that you’ve got here on screen, right? So how does the platform generate the information that will then populate that field because, and when I’m just trying to think about like, you know, because I’ve been, I’ve been in the space for as long as you have, and the way that I’ve generated target personas in the past was not by making a wild guess about, like, you know, looking at the brand’s website. It’s like having conducting deep customer research and listening to hours and hours of recordings, and from there, generating a persona. And this has done it in seconds. So… Clay Ostrom  48:09 Yeah, it’s so the way the system works in a couple different layers. So it does an initial analysis, where it does positioning, messaging analysis and category analysis, then you can generate the persona on top of that. So it takes all the learnings that it got from the category, from the product, from your messaging, and then develops a persona around that. And it’s, of course, able to also pull in, you know, the AI is able to reference things that it knows about the space in general. But I have found, and this is true. I was just having a conversation with someone who works on a very niche brand for a very specific audience, and I was showing him what it had output. And I said, Tell me, like, Don’t hold back. Like, is this accurate? He said, Yeah, this is, like, shockingly accurate for you know, how we view our target customer. So I think it’s pretty good. It’s not again, not going to be perfect. You’re going to need to do some work, and you still got to do the research, but, but, yeah. Christian Klepp  49:13 Okay, fantastic, fantastic. How do, I guess there’s the option, I see it there, like, download the PDF. So anything that’s analyzed on the platform can then be exported in a PDF format, right? Like, like, into a report. Clay Ostrom  49:28 Yeah, right now you can export the messaging analysis, or, sorry, the the messaging ideation that you’ve done, and then in the brand brief you can also, you can download a PDF of the brand brief as well. So, those are the two main areas. I’m still working on some additional exports of data so that people can pull it into a spreadsheet and do some other stuff with it. Christian Klepp  49:49 Fantastic, fantastic. That’s awesome, Clay. I’ve got a couple more questions before I let you go. But this has been, this has been amazing, right? Like and I really hope that whoever’s in the one listening and, most importantly, watching this, I hope that you really do consider like, you know, taking this for a test drive, right? How many I might have asked you this before, because, you know, I am somebody that does use, you know, that does a lot of this type of research. But how much time would you say companies would save by using Smoke Ladder? Clay Ostrom  50:24 It’s a good question. I feel like I’m starting to get some feedback around that with from our users, but I mean, for me personally, I would typically spend an hour or two just to get kind of up to speed initially, with a brand and kind of look at some of their competitors. If I’m doing a deep dive, though, if I’m actually doing some of the deeper research work, it could be several hours per client. So I don’t know. On a given week, it might depend on how many clients you’re talking to. Could be anywhere from a few hours to 10 hours or more, depending on how much work you’re doing. But, yeah, I think it’s a decent amount. Christian Klepp  51:07 Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, this definitely does look like a time saver. Here comes my favorite question, which you’re gonna look at me like, Okay, I gotta, I gotta. Clay Ostrom  51:17 Now bring it on. Let’s go. Christian Klepp  51:22 Folks that are not familiar with Smoke Ladder are gonna look at this, um, and before they actually, um, take it upon themselves to, like, watch, hopefully, watch this video on our channel. Um, they’re gonna look at that and ask themselves, Well, what is it that Smoke Ladder does that? You know that other AI couldn’t do, right, like, so I guess what I’m trying to say is, like, Okay, why would they use? How does the platform differ from something like ChatGPT, Perplexity or Claude, right? To run a brand analysis? Clay Ostrom  52:00 Yeah, no, I think it’s a great question. I think it’s sort of the it’s going to be the eternal AI question for every product that has an AI component. And I would say to me, it’s three things. So one is the data, which we talked about, and I didn’t show you this earlier, but there is a search capability in here to go through our full archive of all the brands we’ve analyzed, and again, we’ve analyzed over 6000 brands. So the data piece is really important here, because it means we’re not just giving you insights and analysis based on the brand that you’re looking at now, but we can compare and contrast against all the other brands that we’ve looked at in the space, and that’s something that you’re not going to get by just using some off the shelf standard LLM  (Large Language Model) and doing some, you know, some quick prompts with that. The next one, I think, to me that’s important is it’s the point of view of the product and the brand. Like I said, this is built off of 10 plus years of doing positioning and messaging work in the space. So you’re getting to tap into that expertise and that approach of how we do things and building frameworks that make this work easier and more productive that you wouldn’t get, or you wouldn’t know, just on your own. And then the last one, the last point, which is sort of the kind of like the generic software answer, is you get a visual interface for this stuff. It’s the difference between using QuickBooks versus a spreadsheet. You can do a lot of the same stuff that you do in QuickBooks and a spreadsheet, but wouldn’t you rather have a nice interface and some easy buttons to click that make your job way, way easier and do a lot of the work for you and also be able to present it in a way that’s digestible and something you could share with clients? So the visual component in the UI is sort of that last piece. Christian Klepp  54:01 Absolutely. I mean, it’s almost like UX and UI one on one. That’s, that’s pretty much like a big part of, I think what it is you’re trying to build here, right? Clay Ostrom  54:13 Yeah, exactly. It’s just it’s making all of those things that you might do in an LLM just way, way easier. You know, you basically come in, put in your URL and click a button, and you’re getting access to all the data and all the insights and all this stuff so. Christian Klepp  54:29 Absolutely, absolutely okay. And as we wrap this up, this has been a fantastic conversation, by the way, how can the audience start using Smoke Ladder, and how can they get in touch with you if they have questions, and hopefully good questions. Clay Ostrom  54:47 Yeah, so you can, if you go to https://smokeladder.com/ you can, you can try it out. Like I said, you can basically go to the homepage, put in a URL and get started. You don’t even have to create an account to do the initial analysis. But you can create FREE account. You can dig in and see, you know, play around with all the features, and if you use it more, you know, we give you a little bit of a trial period. And if you use it beyond that, then you can pay and continue to use it, but, but you can get a really good flavor of it for free. Christian Klepp  55:16 Fantastic, fantastic. Oh, last question, because, you know, it’s looking me right in the face now, industry categories. How many? How many categories can be analyzed on the platform? Clay Ostrom  55:26 Yeah, yeah. So right now, we have 23 categories in the system currently, which sounds like a lot, but when you start to dig into especially B2B, it’s we will be evolving that and continuing to add more, but currently, there’s 23 different categories of businesses in there. Christian Klepp  55:46 All right, fantastic, fantastic. Clay, man. This has been so awesome. Thank you so much for your time and for your patience and walking us through this, this incredible platform that you’ve built and continue to build. And you know, I’m excited to continue using this as it evolves. Clay Ostrom  56:06 Thank you. Yeah, no. Thanks so much. And you know, if anybody, you know, anybody who tries it out, tests it out, please feel free to reach out. We have, you know, contact info on there. You can also hit me up on LinkedIn. I spend a lot of time there, but I would love feedback, love getting notes, love hearing what’s working, what’s not, all those things. So yeah, anytime I’m always open. Christian Klepp  56:30 All right, fantastic. Once again, Clay, thanks for your time. Take care, stay safe and talk to you soon. Clay Ostrom  56:36 Thanks so much. Talk to you soon. Christian Klepp  56:37 All right. Bye for now.

Tomi Lahren, Host of Tomi Lahren is Fearless on OutKick, Co-Host of The Big Weekend Show, and Fox News Contributor joined The Guy Benson Show today to break down the release of the Epstein files and why Democrats badly miscalculated what they assumed would be a Trump "gotcha" moment. Benson and Lahren walked through why the files are far more likely to boomerang on Democrat elites like Bill Clinton and Larry Summers, and weighed in on Rep. Jasmine Crockett's bizarre attempt to blame Republicans for donations linked to an entirely different Jeffrey Epstein. Tomi also reacted to Kamala Harris resurfacing in Tennessee to campaign for the state's "AOC," and explained why she is fully confident that a deep red Tennessee will never elect a politician that far left. Listen to the full interview below! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Student loans gotcha down? You're not alone — but you don't have to stay stuck! In this episode, we're talking about real ways to get through college debt free, even if you're already in debt or don't qualify for many scholarships. I'll share practical ways to get help in college, cut costs, and find creative options to get out of debt and finish school strong — even without scholarships!    LET'S GOOOOOO!!   Other episodes mentioned today: Step 1: 119 - Devos: God is in the Details of Your College Life! - Exodus 2:1-10 Step 2: 146 - This New Year's Resolution Has Me on Track to Become a Millionaire! Only Takes 20 Mins a Week (: Step 3: 7 - Get Paid to Take Notes, Do Homework, and Workout! Effective Multi-Tasking for a Debt-Free Degree Step 4: 203 - 5 Tips to Find an Extra $2200 in Your College Budget!   P.S. Join me on... Facebook --> Christian College Girl Community ~ Scholarships & Graduate Debt-Free | Facebook Instagram --> @moneyandmentalpeace Email --＞ info@moneyandmentalpeace.com   Get scholarships and pay for college without student loans! Are you worried about how to pay for college? Stressed because it's so expensive? Are you having trouble finding scholarships, or all you find don't apply to you? Overwhelmed with all things school and money? Welcome fam! This podcast will help you find and get scholarships, avoid student loans and maybe even graduate college debt-free! Hey! I'm Kara, a Christian entrepreneur, amateur snowboarder, and scholarship BEAST! I figured out how to not only finish college debt-free, but I even had $10k left over in the bank after graduation. (& btw, my parents weren't able to help me financially either!) During school, I was worried about paying for next semester. I couldn't find scholarships that worked specifically for me, and didn't know how to get started while juggling homework and keeping up with ALL.THE.THINGS. But dude, I learned there was a better way! With God's direction, I tested out of classes, and found the perfect scholarships, grants, internships, and weird budget hacks that helped me go from overwhelmed to debt-free with $10k in the bank–all with God on my side. ... and I'm here to walk you through this, too. If you are ready to find scholarships specific to you, learn to manage your money well, and have enough money to kill it at college, this pod is for you! So grab your cold brew and TI-89, and listen in on the most stress-free and debt-free class you've ever attended: this is Money and Mental Peace.

An urban legend, a haunted house, and a small town coming of age tradition. Welcome to Thirteen's 2025 Fall Series: Willow House Don't want to wait for weekly releases? Listen to the rest of the series right now, on  ⁠Patreon⁠! Written by Ian Epperson Narrated by Brooke Jennett Ashley was Noelle Woolery Charlie was Shelby Novak  Andi was Kayla Temshiv  Music composed by Caleb Ritchie Editing and sound design by Brooke Jennett Assistance from Bridgett Freeman Get your copy of Mad As Birds by M.C. Schmidt Hear more from Shelby on her shows Scare You To Sleep and The Bloody Disgusting Podcast! Find Thirteen on social media at: ⁠Facebook⁠, ⁠Tiktok⁠ and⁠ Instagram⁠ Email us with any questions, comments, or story submissions  at  ⁠info@thirteenpodcast.com⁠ Additional Music and SFX licensed through ⁠Artlist⁠ We're part of the SpectreVision Radio network! SpectreVision Radio is a bespoke podcast network at the intersection between the arts and the uncanny, featuring a tapestry of shows exploring creativity, the esoteric, and the unknown. We're a community for creators and fans vibrating around common curiosities, shared interests and persistent passions. SpectreVision Radio ⁠Website⁠ SpectreVision Radio ⁠Socials⁠ CONTENT WANRING BELOW MAY CONTAIN SPOLIERS - - - - - - Suicide, Domestic Violence Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Cruz vs. Carlson on Foreign Policy: Cruz defends a strong U.S. alliance with Israel and supports aggressive action against Iran’s nuclear ambitions. Carlson is portrayed as advocating for isolationism, opposing U.S. involvement in foreign conflicts, and questioning support for Israel. Tensions and “Gotcha” Moments: Carlson challenges Cruz with questions like the population of Iran, which Cruz admits he didn’t know offhand. Cruz criticizes Carlson for using such moments to create viral clips rather than engage in substantive debate. Iranian Threats Against Trump: Cruz cites intelligence and DOJ reports alleging that Iran has plotted to assassinate Donald Trump and former Trump officials. Carlson is skeptical or unaware of these claims, leading to a heated exchange. Accusations of Anti-Israel Bias: Cruz accuses Carlson of obsessively targeting Israel and groups like AIPAC, suggesting a double standard not applied to other U.S. allies. Moral Clarity and American Exceptionalism: Cruz argues against moral relativism, asserting that the U.S. and its leaders are fundamentally different from authoritarian regimes like Russia or Iran. He emphasizes “peace through strength” and a foreign policy based on protecting American interests. Trump’s Position: Trump is quoted supporting Cruz’s stance and reaffirming his own “America First” doctrine, particularly in opposing a nuclear-armed Iran. Please Hit Subscribe to this podcast Right Now. Also Please Subscribe to the 47 Morning Update with Ben Ferguson and the Ben Ferguson Show Podcast Wherever You get You're Podcasts. Thanks for Listening #seanhannity #hannity #marklevin #levin #charliekirk #megynkelly #tucker #tuckercarlson #glennbeck #benshapiro #shapiro #trump #sexton #bucksexton#rushlimbaugh #limbaugh #whitehouse #senate #congress #thehouse #democrats#republicans #conservative #senator #congressman #congressmen #congresswoman #capitol #president #vicepresident #POTUS #presidentoftheunitedstatesofamerica#SCOTUS #Supremecourt #DonaldTrump #PresidentDonaldTrump #DT #TedCruz #Benferguson #Verdict #justicecorrupted #UnwokeHowtoDefeatCulturalMarxisminAmericaYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@VerdictwithTedCruzSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.