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I had the opportunity to hang out with the author of True Loves Kiss, Debbie Moran on this episode, join in the conversation to get some practical applications of spirituality that you can use in your daily routine! Unknown Speaker 0:00 Your journey has been an interesting one up here. You've put in so much more than those around you. You've even questioned yourself as to how you could have grown into these thoughts. Am I crazy? I'm wondering why do people in general You're so limited as Bob process for ensuring you are not alone The world is slowly waking up to what you already know inside getting can't quite verbalize. Welcome to the spiritual dough podcast, the show that answers the question you never even knew to ask questions about you in the world, the people in it? And most importantly, how do I proceed? Now moving forward? We don't have all the answers, but we sure do love Living in the Time for another spiritual dope with your host, Brandon Handley. Let's get right into today's episode. Brandon Handley 0:41 Hey there spiritual dope. We are on today with my good friend Debbie Moran and Debbie and I connected through spirituality group that we're both members in the soul side, right soul side by side community. Yes. Also community with Mark Youngblood for some of you who've listened to the podcast a couple times, you've heard mark on the podcast, hurts I think I had Anna champagne on the podcast as well, all members of this incredible group, Debbie is no exception, in this group well, and they're just trying to learn how to improve, improve, you know, just how to harness our spirituality better throughout life. And Debbie has written a book that she's going to talk a little bit about with us today, that's going to help you to figure out, you know, what are what are some practical applications? And what are some ways that you can harness spirituality so that you can have some more fulfillment, some more happiness, confidence, Legos, some anxiety, those types of things. So, Debbie, thank you so much for being on today. Debbie Moran 1:43 Hey, you're welcome, Brandon, thank you for having me. Brandon Handley 1:46 Absolutely. Absolutely. And I always like to start these off with the idea that we are directly connected to source energy, like at all times, right? And it creates and speaks through us, right, we're vessels for for this. And the idea is that there's somebody listening to this podcast today, that is going to receive a message that can only be delivered through you at this precise time. What is that message? Debbie Moran 2:15 I love that you're we're on the same page. I do believe not that we're connected to source, but that we are an extension of source. So we are here to embody us. So I feel like that actually is something that took me a long time to actually realize that I was here to embody Debbie Moran, rather than I was going to change my name. And so many of us have changed our names in our spiritual circles, I realized through my process that a lot of the names that I was going to change my name to, were simply the state that I was in and in my own evolution, for instance, bliss. So. So what's the message, the message is we are here to be who we came to be? Brandon Handley 3:04 What's that look like for you? If you wanted to elaborate a little bit more? Debbie Moran 3:09 Well, each of us, I think you said it really nicely. In the beginning, I don't feel like we're here to learn anything I hate, we're here to remember the truth of who we are, and the extent of what we're capable of, which is beyond our conscious level of awareness. So it's really about raising our states of awareness. So that we can actually tap into and become that presence. That is that clear vessel, that Clear Channel that doesn't, you know, words are what we have to work with. But the truth is really beyond words. And so it's challenging sometimes to actually put an expression in terms of a language to all of the truth. And so I feel like what you said is true. I in fact, a coach once told me, you know, there are people in the world who can only hear what they need to hear through you. Brandon Handley 4:08 Right, I mean, it's true, right? There's, there's, you know, I think we all resonate at a certain level to our different people. Right. And, and that's really the idea of the podcast is, I may resonate with plenty of people, but you resonate with a different group, you're gonna attract, and you're gonna speak to a different group of people that that tune in, and they're gonna hear your message, they're gonna pick up on the Debbie vibe, right? And, and, and, and you're gonna maybe open up something inside of them, right? I really liked that idea, though, to what you were saying that, that you had considered changing your name, because of these states that you were in and the idea of all these other people kind of that maybe you knew that have changed their name that maybe they find the spirituality and then they go change their name. Right, they live into this other state of being that they think can flip in and out of at any time. Right. And and I'm really glad to hear that what you decided to do, though, was just, you know, understand that you were here to be, you know, kind of who you were meant to be. And not like these other, these other things, these other when you change your name like that, it's kind of like you're just changing your mask. Right, Debbie Moran 5:24 exactly. Right. Right. So start roles. So it is the roles we play, and they vary throughout life, but our presence never buries. So it just shines through different masks and different roles. Brandon Handley 5:40 Right? Well, so let me let me um, what what kind of got you into spirituality space to begin with, Debbie Moran 5:47 was kind of born into a dynamic actually, it really wasn't meant as a that was really part of what maybe it's like coming full circle, rather full spiraling inward to this awareness that I came in sort of rejecting. Rejecting the sense of being here, there was a part of me, I literally came in with going, whoa, where am I? And this is pre words, where am I? And how did I get here? And none of this makes sense? And what is this language I'm hearing and I couldn't say it, but I say all these thoughts were going through my head. And so it took me almost my lifetime up till now to actually be okay with not only be okay, but recognize the brilliance and the blessing of being human. And being born into the family I was born into, and into the experiences that I experienced, to help me to be to remember to become aware of this is not a punishment, this is Brandon Handley 6:57 what I mean, I don't know about you, it's just another experience the same way that we experienced any other sensation. We're having this? You know, I guess if we were to say it in one way, if this is basically our life sensation. Debbie Moran 7:10 Yes. Yes, our experience of those things that if we truly are one, then I say that because I feel that and I believe that and I have a knowingness of that. However, we don't experience that full, that full expression of that all the time, because otherwise we wouldn't be having these senses that we have are these thoughts that come through, or these words that we're able to express these are things that the theory is we came to experience what we are not to remember who we are, and that's kind of Brandon Handley 7:47 right, and, you know, I think that that's always, that's always a challenge, and you'll get like some eye rolls from people that haven't, I guess, experienced that space. Right, that happened kind of gone through some of those, those those those developments. And I think that, um, since it's such a subjective experience, you can't really you can't really, you can't really impart it on anybody else. Right, you can just all you can do is be like, Well, okay, I mean, I can just tell you from what I've experienced, and what I've gone through. And, you know, maybe if you these are some signals, right? Have you experienced this, that or the other thing, okay, then maybe, right. I like and I like in that experience to the idea of Joseph Campbell's, the hero's journey, right? When when, you know, when you hear the call of the hero, like, that's, that's kind of like your wake up call, right? That's, and you don't have to, you don't have to respond to it, but it's not gonna, it's not going to go away. Right, right. And it's kind of what you do after that, or each time it comes along, what do you do with it? Debbie Moran 9:01 And it doesn't look the same for any individual. Right now. I work with a lot of people and a lot of families and a lot of times one family member will come to me to actually work on another. And I always bring them in first, especially as children or spouse, because, you know, it may look like the other person's not doing their work, but just because they're not doing it the same way you're doing. It doesn't mean they're not doing your work. Brandon Handley 9:26 That's right. That's right. Right. And that's, that's a challenge. I mean, how, how was it for you to kind of overcome that idea, right? Yeah, the idea of, well, that person is not doing the work that person, I know, they're not doing the work and then you got to do it like this. You got to do it like that. And, you know, because I, I bring that up because when, you know some of my first experiences were similar to that until like, there was like this point was like, wait, wait a second. Your experience is going to be totally different than mine. I don't know what you're actually transfer is gonna be but yes. Right. So Where, where? Where did I mean? Where Where did that come into sight for you? Debbie Moran 10:11 Again, it's deepened through my whole process. But I really kind of came in with the ability to see a person's soul that actually created problems for me a lot of times because I would see their soul and ignore their behavior. And I'm sure many people have had that experience. So it actually took me a long time to actually be aware that I could see their soul but I needed to pay attention to their behavior. So it was like, in a way, I wasn't holding others accountable. I was holding myself accountable for the world around me. So it was it felt very heavy and very burdensome. And so I I very early went to nature. Actually, I grew up Pentecostal. So I kind of grew into that indoctrination, which is I had a Pentecostal. Brandon Handley 11:04 Okay. That's right. Yeah. Holy rollers. Right. Right. Right. I, you know, I, there's, I think there's a, from what I've heard, I kind of think that there's a grain of truth to, to, to that whole series. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like I'm a fan, Debbie Moran 11:23 lifetime journey to actually realize that Sunday was the day of Pentecost, and for the first time ever, I actually understood what that meant. Brandon Handley 11:32 What is it? So what does that mean? Debbie Moran 11:34 Pentecost is theoretically what is today, like 50 days, 10 days, meaning 50 days after the the resurrection of Christ. And what happened is, it's also the Jewish day of harvest. And from the Bible perspective, is the Jewish day apartness, that 50 days after the resurrection of Christ, and all of the disciples came together, and all of a sudden, they were all speaking in a language that no matter is funny. We started out with saying there are only those who can understand through you, right, in this any cost theory is that the apostles spoke in the language that whoever they were speaking to, could understand. Brandon Handley 12:18 Yeah, that's, that's it? Yeah. I think it's beautiful, right? I mean, I see. Yeah, yeah. I think that i think that's pretty cool, right? If you can be in a place and you know, no matter what, whoever you're speaking to understand you. And I think that that's really, again, this space, right? Once you kind of get into this space, there's maybe there's a little, maybe there's a little dance, right? And then but then you just kind of land on Yep. Okay, cool, then then we're speaking the same language. Right. So, so real similar, I think in that right. And, you know, and so, I wouldn't take that literally, that's how I would see it, right. So kind of like this, you know, symbolic and or, you know, our allegoric kind of way. So very cool. Now, I love that. So, what, yeah, let's talk a little bit about the book that you you've put out. Debbie Moran 13:06 Okay, so here's a picture of it. And it's interesting. It's called true love's kiss, and keep it simple, sweetheart. There you go. Yeah, books in one. Sure. And true love's kiss is it came to me. It's interesting, because I was writing, I was doing a 90 day book writing course, I have like books written everywhere, but none of them ever actualized. And I was in the middle of writing a different book. And all of a sudden, it got derailed. After the 90 days, I was ready to start putting it into book form, and is like, no, that goes away. This is what you're writing. And these characters came through these fictional names came through. And all of a sudden, I was like, Genevieve, who's genetti. What is this? So then I had this and I couldn't even like spelling, it wasn't even like the easiest names or names I would have chosen. So I started these, these voices, these names, these characters came through and started writing the story of a mother daughter, that like the birth of a daughter and the mother daughter relationship, all the way through the first chapter of her life. True from birth to 21. And so that that's the first part true love's kiss. It's the story told in fairytale form, from the perspective of a mother and daughter of what happened in their lives. And what it does is it shows how patterns or patterns emerge and how they're actually solidified and rigidify it and they become habits and then how they're unconsciously repeated. Brandon Handley 14:40 What would be an example of that out of the book maybe? Debbie Moran 14:44 Um, okay, so what I talked about earlier is being able to see an individual so in ignoring their behavior, and then constantly just saying, Okay, I'll forgive that behavior, but still not hold them accountable and go back and just kind of repeat the same thing over and over and over. And so there was that, and then there's so there's a dynamic around finances and money. So the consciousness here is about what is love? What is this this life I've come to live? And what is this money thing? You know, what is this all about? Why do we need this? And why are people saying one thing and doing another or not saying what they need. So it's it's story after story of just the pattern. And it was, it was brilliant how the mother and the daughter, we're parallel, but you kind of got both of their perspectives. And that's awesome. Brandon Handley 15:41 That's awesome. So and so I guess, you know, the inspiration came from, you know, just basically these these figures coming forth for you, right, just kind of showing themselves, Debbie Moran 15:53 they did show themselves. And then but the inspiration was, I don't know if it was a parallel like or what, but it was from Miami like, Brandon Handley 16:02 Sure. Okay. That's great. That's great to know. And then so we, you know, we do I think you talked a little bit about the patterns. And then there was some more, I think that talks about, you know, the concept of belief systems. Debbie Moran 16:17 Oh, very much. So, yeah. systems, habits, patterns, they all are just another word for a way that we rigidify ourselves and limit ourselves, and, and forget the brilliance or the divinity of the birth of ourselves. Brandon Handley 16:38 You know, how is it then, you know, so as we forget, is there a way that you have come across or can think of that would prevent us from forgiving? Debbie Moran 16:50 You know, it's funny, because I said this to mark recently, and he's like Devi, everybody talks about that, the breath, Brandon Handley 16:57 the breath, Debbie Moran 16:59 in breath. I mean, I have gone through an endless array of encyclopedias full of studies myself, different masters, different philosophies, and different religions and spiritual practices. And I put them all into action. And yet, I feel like part of the message here is the remembrance of that simplicity of the breath. I mean, literally, the breath is the first thing we take when we come out of the womb. Sure. And they've done scientific studies that show that when a person dies, the breath until that last breath is exhaled. Like that weighs six ounces, from what I understand, it's like they measured the breath. Exhale was six ounces. And that's like, essentially your spirit. Right? So that's our luggage. Brandon Handley 17:50 Did they get the six ounces? Uh, yeah, I hadn't heard that. I hadn't heard that, that they nailed down a number. That's very interesting to hear. Debbie Moran 17:57 That way, don't quote me. Do you remember six pounds? Brandon Handley 18:01 Yeah, that'd be interesting. If we could find a I'd love to, I'd love to know kind of where that came from. I'll look it up and see, Yeah, that'd be great if we could share that out. Because again, you know, I agree to the breath, being this kind of kind of a recall, right? If we've been breathing this certain way, and we've been doing it incorrectly our entire lives. And that's the, you know, the easiest, the number one thing that we do, what else have we gotten wrong? As is my question, right? Debbie Moran 18:36 You're not breathing, when you're not breathing freely. First of all, the breath, it's the rest of our lives. Man, he is the Bible quote here and God breathed life into the man the nostrils of mankind. So for sure, if we are not breathing, we're cutting off our connection to that to that source, that we are legislating through us experiencing through us. And when we do that, we don't make good choices. Brandon Handley 19:10 Fair enough. Fair enough. would would you be able to point to any breath exercises or breath work that have had an impact on you throughout your life? Debbie Moran 19:21 What does so many have done to Gong and everything and done the yogic practices, but the simplest breath that I've come back to, is to keep it simple, sweetheart. That's it. Breath of just in the nose, out the mouth, in the belly of the belly. And it's just and then gradually, there's a Buddhist smile meditation. So they gradually as you increase and bring the breath to without, without mentally thinking about it as you bring the breath into an even in an even exhale, but then you gradually add a smile. And what that does is that increases the end Do orphans in your body nice and has your body start to produce those endorphins, those chemicals that actually do help you stay clear in your thinking and in your feeling in your, in your physical body. make good choices. Brandon Handley 20:14 Yeah. Well, I mean, look, I think that when you're creating love the fact that we are these walking chemical factories, we are, right and that we have the capability to generate, whichever chemical we we did we dictate that right? You're talking about being able to go in and say, you know, right now, right now, this is what I need, I need to feel gratitude. And my body's gonna respond and create these kinds of these, these endorphins, right. And so it's gonna, it's gonna send out like, these kinds of things that are making my entire body feel good. So knowing that you're This is walking chemical factory, I think that's just another another thing that along the path is very empowering. Debbie Moran 20:58 It is. And and when you get that you recognize that you have everything you need. And by breathing in, and by the right chemicals being produced, what happens is you start seeing these seemingly synchronistic events where suddenly the right resources like, like, you reach out to me and say, Hey, you want to do a podcast? Brandon Handley 21:19 So So I mean, I think I think you know, that just to your story, really, is it that you've always felt like this connection to source and you've always, you've always just kind of surround yourself by it was just a matter of how to really bring more of it into your life and be accepting of it in your life. And then, kind of letting it play a greater part in your life where again, we're here not here being you know, Debbie, the human, you're here being Debbie, the spiritual being having the human experience. Is that is that fair? Debbie Moran 21:56 No, I am. Before I was rejecting being human. I was like, I am not this. What How did this happen? Brandon Handley 22:06 That's funny. Yeah, no, that's good. That's good. Now, so I mean, I think that that touches on a pretty, pretty key point, too, because this whole experience is you. Yeah, yeah. And and I think that it's really easy for people to reject their body and spirituality, right in favor of spirituality. You want to talk a little bit about how you you've maybe merged, merged those two pieces yourself? Yes. Debbie Moran 22:34 Well, part of the benefit of but the way I came in with this kind of dynamic of rejecting was became my big key, I became very physical. I was very athletic, always, I always love to dance, and those kinds of practices, and just I just had this awareness as I was writing this book. I, it really helped me remember I was in a body. So it helped to keep me grounded. And so what that what occurred with that is, I started realizing, and as I started accepting my role, right, rather than wanting to just go off onto a mountaintop somewhere, or an island, and just kind of living in peace, I started accepting my role. And I began teaching something called Body Talk. And the body talk was a really big key factor for me in terms of that put me on my spiritual path in a way where things started integrating and a structure was built within me to where I could actually tap into my intuition even more. So I came to realize that too often through our spiritual and religious practices, we talk about transcending the body. And that in itself is a rejection. So I don't feel like that's the case. I feel like we greatly misunderstand our physical bodies. We are like these walking galaxies. And we greatly misunderstand the capability of them. Because we watched nature and assumed that that is the pathway of this body. So that's what we create. So it's really unlearning the indoctrination of that is the way of biology because biology, I feel like our bodies are deliberately evolving into these light bodies that can bring that can actually bring in more of our source energy, so that we can actually fulfill an even greater, unimaginable way of being Yeah, no, I Brandon Handley 24:38 think that makes sense. It's the idea of if we think about if we think about any type of conduit or anything that if we don't treat it properly, I'm thinking right now have a battery cables, right. And sometimes they get corroded and if they do, you let all this corrosion come through then then the juice doesn't go through. Right. And so if we neglect our bodies and this thing, this is really what allows us to be like those conduits of divine energy. Exactly. Right. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. So I love that. I love that. So, um, before we I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask you a couple of questions. Maybe like one, we'll start with one, see where it goes. Because basically, the idea here is that this is a spiritual speed dating. So right, like, so there's going to be somebody on the other side, that's like, you know what, I'm looking for my next spiritual date. And Deb, you may be it. So, but it's all gonna hinge on what your answer to this question. And the question is gonna be? Ooo, let's figure Oh, man, let's Debbie Moran 25:49 spiritual speed dating, Brandon Handley 25:51 speed dating. Say yesterday? What is your one wish for the world? Debbie Moran 26:03 That we wake up? And that we actually have to tap into see the divine vessels that we were designed to be? What would that look like? I Well, I've been saying multiple things about part of my role is to, and history as we know it. And to awaken to awaken the remembrance that heaven never left Earth. And it's just right here, as soon as we are able to open our eyes and be able to see it and experience it, and be it. Brandon Handley 26:39 Have you been able to have that experience yourself? Debbie Moran 26:42 I feel like I have been ironically, these last couple years when the world is in turmoil. I mean, I feel all of that out there. But I had this bliss, that experience of being able to work at home, I do all remote work. And I was able to write this book during that time. And I live in a home with a partner who, who has a different, much different approach than I do, but he's conscious. And we hold ourselves accountable in this conscious relationship. So it's like, we basically say, you know, I'm in charge in my my consciousness and my awareness, and you're in charge of yours. And if either of us feels out of integrity with that, we're gonna call the other on it. And ourselves. And I live in a home in Florida, Sarasota, one of the most, it so many people are coming here. But I live in a home where we can open up all our doors and windows and be outside from the inside. So it's like living in the inside out, which is kind of a great metaphor for what I choose to do, living from the inside out, or is market say living from the suicide? Brandon Handley 27:51 For sure, for sure. Living from the soul side, I love it. Let's have one more we have time for another question. You know, you're talking about this as we started kind of being present. So what does it mean to live in the present moment. Debbie Moran 28:13 It means to breathe fully, and allow space for your presence to come through, rather than having a preconceived idea of what that's supposed to do. When I find when I do that, it's like, time slows down. The words come through. It's not Debbie, the incarnate speaking. It's God, the incarnate speaking through it. And so it's this ever evolving discovery of the wonders of what this length is all about. Brandon Handley 28:58 That's great. So I mean, it's a being present to what is, Debbie Moran 29:05 right and what is because that's all there is. And you can you can another just a simplistic description of that is true. Many people worry about the future. So it robs them of the moment. And there's so much beauty and grace in this world that's being missed. And as a consequence of that, not being given. It's the grace, the glory is do is there. If we're if we're actually just to take that moment, to consciously we're never out of the moment. We just often think we have to take that moment of breathing into this space. It's like the miracle of life shows. Brandon Handley 29:54 I think that's wonderful and I agree. It's the idea of it's all Present, right, those moments that you're talking about, they're always available. Sometimes we get caught up in some other moments, some other thoughts and worries, some concerns. And really, when we look back at those moments, when we are worried and concerned, we're like, why did I expend so much time and energy in that space? And when this other thing was available to me, you know, kind of whatever that was, but chances are, what you expended your time and energy on at that time, there was something better available for you at that time. Right. So, agreed, agreed. And I think that, you know, that's a brilliant point. That's not just because I agree, but you know, so where can I send people to find more out about Moran and the book that you've got out? Debbie Moran 30:51 Okay, um, I have a website buddy talking beyond. And I've actually put on the front page, there is a link where you can go buy the book from Amazon if you choose to, but you can go to body talking beyond calm and on the front page, it can lead you to more information about me as far as the bio and everything and also to the link to the book where you can just go to to Amazon and look for to less kids by giving land and its loved with an apostrophe s so Brandon Handley 31:24 so And where would somebody if they want to get in contact with you? How can they do that? Debbie Moran 31:30 They could get contacted through there is a form on my body to on my body talking to me on website, or they can just email me at debbie dot Moran dot lol@gmail.com Brandon Handley 31:43 thank you so much for being on today. Debbie Moran 31:45 My pleasure. Thank you Transcribed by https://otter.ai

---Join us for our Summer Rewind series as we feature past podcast episodes!--- EPISODE #15: Smart buildings have the potential to consume less energy, generate less waste, and provide better quality spaces for their occupants. But just how practical is it for building owners to adopt these new technologies and can they actually improve the bottom line? Terry Young, Vice president of operations at KRP Properties sits down to talk to us about the rise of smart buildings and the importance of training his employees on the ever-changing technology. Transcript: Dan Seguin  00:44 Greetings everyone and welcome back. This is Episode 15 of the ThinkEnergy podcast. We spend our lives in buildings at home at the office, community centers, shopping malls, movie theaters, and the list goes on. We're also surrounded by smart technology and gadgets, smartphones that can turn on the heating in your home before you get there smartwatches that track how many steps you take each day. Now that smart technology has made a remarkable entry into commercial office building space. Enabled by technology smart buildings have the potential to consume less energy, generate less waste, and provide better quality spaces for their occupants. Did you know buildings produce 17% of Canada's greenhouse gases, including emissions from generating electricity that buildings use. modern buildings are equipped with 1000s of sensors recording air quality, humidity, motion, temperature and the presence of noxious gas, light carbon monoxide, formaldehyde. These sensors continuously record energy consumption and waste. Smart algorithms running on network computers, analyze sensor generated data in real time to keep the building systems running at peak efficiency while the air is clean and fresh. So here's today's big question: Smart buildings lead smart cities. How practical is it for building owners to adopt these new technologies? And can they actually improve the bottom line? Our guest today is Terry Young, Vice President of Operations at KRP properties. He manages a portfolio of over 30 commercial properties in Ottawa's high tech hub in Kanata. Welcome to the ThinkEnergy podcast,Terry. So what's your take on this smart building trend? What are some of the technologies you've adopted in your own buildings?   Terry Young  03:02 So I don't even know if I'd call it a trend it is a "must-have" moving forward. Basically, what we've tried to do is try to understand how our buildings, use the utilities, be a gas, be it utilities, gas, electric, and or water, and try to understand how that from an energy perspective is being used. But how do I make my clients comfortable. So we've sort of broken it down into three things. safety, comfort and energy. That's how we kind of run our buildings. So some of the technologies that we've put in place is anywhere from, you know, low voltage, DC lighting, LED lights. We've put in, state of the art building automation systems, we run artificial intelligence, the IoT devices, there's millions of them. We've tried probably millions, and we don't have millions, but we've you know, we play a lot in the space to try to make you more comfortable burning less energy.   Dan Seguin  04:07 Quick question, how does AI fit into that? You just talked about artificial intelligence.   Terry Young  04:12 Yeah. So I could I could talk here for like five hours on this. This is my thing. I love this. So what we found is we get data coming in from the sensors and the IoT thing. So we talked about earlier on, how do you maximize the efficiency of how you're running a building? You say, Well, I can turn off the lights at four o'clock when people are going absolutely. But how can holistically you look at how the building's burning its energy and how you're maximizing the comfort to the fourth or fifth decimal place. And this is where AI comes in. So we feed all of the data that we get in from the sensors in our buildings, and we feed it into a data analytics platform. And what that does, it understands how the building is really being used by the people in the building. Okay, and I'll give you a quick example. So if you've got an r&d department who meet every second Thursday, for instance, and what the building will do, it'll start understanding the trends of how that room in that section of the buildings being used. So if it's not being used, the building's going to say, Well, I don't need to light it, and I don't need the air condition it properly. So if I'm only going to do that, if indeed, they use the building, so over time, trending will actually start to occur and the analytics takes over to automatically lower the temperature, turn off the lights, etc. Likewise, these guys are going for pints and they're trying to bugger off every Friday, not that never ever happens, where the building sort of starts understanding that he'll start shutting the lights down three o'clock. Yeah. So So basically, we've been very forced in some of our buildings, you know, putting this AI stuff in, we can save 27, even up to 30% of energy just by turning this stuff off.   Dan Seguin  05:59 Okay, well, that actually flows nicely into the next one. And maybe you have something to add. So the question was around, how does it work? And how does it help make your building minimize energy costs, support the electricity grid and mitigate environmental impacts?   Terry Young  06:18 Yeah, again, great question. And it's quite loaded, and has many levels of answers. So I'll try to simplify it. Minimize the use of every electrical device in your building. Basically, if you have another example, if you got a 60 horsepower motor on the roof drive and a fan, for instance, what that does is now this technology will say I don't need the full 60 horsepower. So at three o'clock in the afternoon, maybe we need 22 horsepower, or six horsepower. So we put variable speed drives in variable stuff. And again, remember, this technology is understanding holistically how that fan works. So you only will use the minimum amount to maintain your comfort. So ultimately, what will happen is twofold. One, you're going to burn less energy full stop. Among other things, and this is where the math is, is sort of very hard to quantify. I don't replace it normally. So if you have a useful motor, you have a useful life and say 18 to 20 years on electric motor, for instance, that's under normal conditions, I've minimized those normal conditions now with the software. So what happens is, I don't need to spend $300,000, or whatever that huge amount of investment from a capital perspective, to buy a new motor 18 years, I maybe want to push that to 22 to 25, you expand your life expectancy, here's the thing, the amount of energy and the amount of everything carbon and everything to build the motor, I don't I'm not throwing it out. I'm not building a new one, I'm actually trying to save and extend the lifespan of what I have already.   Dan Seguin  08:01 The only thing is maintenance.   Terry Young  08:03 Exactly. And again, again, they come back to the artificial intelligence, predictive maintenance. So this is the artificial intelligence gives us the ability to predict based on trending analytics now, so we actually be able to maintain and operate even when I say 100 times better, literally 100 times better than we did before.   Dan Seguin  08:21 So these improving these system efficiencies, like event, venting and lighting you're talking about does actually affect the bottom line, and I would assume in a positive way. And also with regard to your your carbon footprint.   Terry Young  08:37 Yeah, well, so so not to get too technical. But the more efficient, you can run a building, obviously, the less money that you have to spend to run it. So right, that's the bottom line number. Likewise, you create a brand when you run a building like this, that people want to be there, and they're willing to pay a premium sometimes to lease this space in a building like that, because their operating costs are lower, and they're more comfortable. So it's good business, very good business.   Dan Seguin  09:07 Okay. What are some of the potential barriers, though, to the adoption of smart building solutions? Like I mean, are there any talk to me maybe about return on investment? Maybe the inconvenience factor downtimes to get that set up?   Terry Young  09:22 Yeah. So not too much downtime, return on investment, certainly. What probably the biggest, if not, it's not anything, it's usually about the money to do this, how when, where all that kind of stuff we can play with, but coming up with the million dollars or the 350,000, or whatever it is. That's the biggest problem have. Some of this technology, the payback is not even quantifiable. For years, 10 years, 12 years. I'm a finance guy. And that doesn't make any sense. So, you know, after seven years, there's not really a return. So we try to, you know, put if, if it's any less than three years, it's a pretty good business. Sort of decision, the biggest besides the money is, and again, before I continue to number two, there are specific financial institutions that were specialize in this too, by the way. So if you gotta if you've got a building, or you're in the space where you don't know exactly what to do, and you don't think you have the money, most of our lending institutions, now they do have specific people who understand the technology and are willing to loan you money to buy the technology, because that's what they're really specifically, their expertise there. So there's divisions of these and the big all the big banks have divisions now. And we often get third party financing from these guys. Okay, so that's one, the financing check. Number two is we're having a big issue with HR. So it's one thing to put in a great system, and it's amazing, who's gonna run it. So at the end of the day, you still need a smart human behind everything. So you know, we often say, Well, you know, working ourselves out of a job, never, you will always always need somebody to understand the number and how to run it. So, you know, most of our workforce is probably like, in everybody's outfit. You know, they're 55. And over. Yeah. And so we're bringing a lot of this technology in, and we were struggling trying to find the expertise to run it.   Dan Seguin  11:27 Yeah, that was that was one of the questions actually, that I had, now that you have this advanced technology in your buildings? How do you convince the operators that you have in hand, to join that smart workforce? And how do you recruit, are they are they there yet? Do you have that workforce available?   Terry Young  11:47 No, I don't have a fully, you know, our workforce is is again, probably 60% is over 55 years old, we have adopted a lot. What we've done is we've had to change the way we do business a little bit. So when we purchase something, we don't purchase just the thing, I purchased training for the thing. Okay, you see how that changed a little bit. Now, he come back to the economics now. So the ROI, because I've just increased my bill a little bit. But in order to maximize like golf lessons, and I use this example, 1000 times, so I buy a brand new set of ping golf clubs. And if I give that to a person who doesn't know how to play golf, the ball is still gonna be in the woods. Yeah, it's best to buy the big golf clubs and get a golf lesson or two. Yeah, it's worth the 1200 bucks, it really is. And this is where we are right now. So we've done in all of our building automation systems, or AI, I bring the guy in, bring the boys in, and we have, here's how I can make my client because we're very, you know, we're, it's almost a personal thing for us. And so it's our clients, it's my clients, if I can make you more comfortable by sitting in some training and doing a little better job, that's what I'm going to do. And most of our guys are very, very dedicated like that. So you know, training, training, training is the key. And at the end result, when we look and we and I obviously bring numbers to all this and benchmark this. We're doing better. So we make our clients more comfortable. And by burning less energy, life is good. That's basically our job. Cool, you know?   Dan Seguin  13:17 Yeah, will optimization of these systems provide data that can translate into actionable asset repairs or replacement?   Terry Young  13:26 Oh, absolutely. Oh, I did. Yeah. Yeah, no, we're a lot. I wouldn't say all, but a lot of our capital investment that was based on analytics. And basically we break these numbers in. And we can cross reference that now from a financial perspective, see, understand how much from an operational perspective we've been spending on a certain asset class, be it a fan or a motor, something like that. And then the analytics have come in and say you've repaired this 66 times you have 88 service calls, heat and cold calls. There's an issue, there's a and you know, you there's a red point here, you should look at replacing this, because there's a couple of parameters that aren't looking good. Now, if you didn't have some piece of software, looking at this, there's no way that you could, you know, we have 10s of 1000s of devices, you'd never be able to do that. But this AI stuff, when you open the screen, it actually comes up with a green, red and yellow. So if it's red, we got to look at it. If it's green, we're good. And it sort of categorizes in a hierarchy perspective, what I need to look at exactly and remember every point is being looked at so I know right down to the thermostat if there's an issue.   Dan Seguin  14:39 We're talking a lot about the technology but you have these providers also they're closely linked to that the building automation systems of this world if you want, are you able to expand on your partnership model to execute on your smart building strategy?   Terry Young  14:54 Oh, absolutely. The reason the only reason why are successful is because We have great partners. And shout out to you guys as well. The Hydro Ottawa guys, we budget and we look at what we're going to do based on your recommendations and your expertise. You have teams of really smart people, get them around the table, they're more than happy. They're some of the smartest guys in our business. Ask him for advice. What a concept. You know, so we literally get partners, and that's exactly we don't have vendors and clients and we got partners sit around a table, and we got lots of smart people. We got building automation, guys, we got cybersecurity guys, i t guys, utility guys. And they're all wanting to try to make a difference. So you sit around a table, you put a sort of a pathway, and you can It's amazing. What what can be achieved with smart people around the table. And then so you layer then the finance piece, you layer, the analytics piece, you layer the smarts, there's no way you can make you the right decision has to float to the top. Okay? So you never you don't second guess yourself anymore. So if you have to spend a million dollars or 5 million, whatever it is, you know, beyond the shadow of a doubt, you've made a really good decision because everybody around the table is in the same direction as you are.   Dan Seguin  16:20 Let's look at the other side of the spectrum. All those good decisions. But is there something that keeps you up at night? What makes you nervous?   Terry Young  16:31 Cybersecurity? You know, I sit on a pile of boards, and we have a conference every year with real calm, which specifically understands how the operational side of the building operates. We're all online now. Okay. And it's vulnerable, in certain circumstances, how you are online from a building perspective. So there's, there's bad guys in the world, unfortunately. And, you know, for whatever reason, they're trying to be destructive. And how you can sort of solve that, or how to barricade those bad guys to come. You know, because you don't want your clients, you just want to keep lights on, keep them warm. And some bad guy wants to stop that, unfortunately. So we put up a pile of sort of cybersecurity and firewalls and a whole pile of IT things that some, again, one of our IT experts, sort of helps us out with, but at the end of the day, I'm worried that as we get further and further down the line, everything is online, everything, you know, there, there's a cybersecurity issue, and that there's a cost to that. And so we got all this data is out there, we have our buildings are our clients, sorry, rely on us as landlords to ensure that, that they're safe, and their lights are on and their their heat and cold. So, you know, as we get more and more technologically advanced, we have to combat that every single day. The building of yesteryear was, don't let the guy in by the electrical switch in the electrical room, lights are still going to be on. That's not the case anymore. You know, you're going even this bill is probably no light switches. Most of our buildings don't so if you you know, so that that's that's probably what keeps me up the most.   Dan Seguin  18:32 that was very informational. I appreciate this. Listen, thank you very much for joining me today. I hope you enjoyed it. I did. If someone wanted to connect with you, what's the best way?   Terry Young  18:42 Hey, my phone for sure. call my office KRP properties or tyoung@krpproperties.com? Absolutely. I have a LinkedIn profile as well. And I enjoy speaking on this topic. very passionate. Yeah, I Well, I like it, it's better. The buildings that we run are better because of it. And I think as a society, and as a community, we're very fortunate to have very tight knit community. If we all chat, which we do our carbon footprint as a whole as our industry can drop, because we're just doing things a little better, a little cleaner, so I can learn from somebody they can learn from us how to do a little bit better. I think we can you know how to eat an elephant one bite at a time. So I think we're going to do really good things here.   Dan Seguin  19:25 Thanks again. Tori. Thank you. Have a great day. You too. Hey, folks, thank you for joining us today. I truly hope you enjoyed this episode. For past episodes, make sure you visit our website hydroottawa.com/podcast. Lastly, if you found value in this podcast, we'd appreciate a rating on iTunes, or maybe even tell a friend or a colleague. Anyway, this podcast is a wrap. Peace, everyone.

In this episode we discuss knitting with handspun yarn, including estimating yardage, picking needle size, and selecting potential patterns. Show notes with full transcript, photos, and links can be found in the podcast section of our shop website: TwoEwesFiberAdventures.com. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Subscribe on Android or Subscribe on Google Podcasts Marsha’s Projects Walk Along tee by Ankestrick (Ravelry link) I’ve put the body on waste yarn to check length. I’ve decided to move on to the sleeve which will stop just above the elbow instead of ¾ length. I started the gusset on the second sock of a pair of socks for myself using Drops Fabel Print that I bought in San Luis Obispo.   Still spinning the green and brown three ply. Kelly’s Projects  Ripped out the Bear Brand Yarn socks and will be starting them again with no pattern. Faye’s Flower Blanket. All Octagons and squares are done. One more triangle to do. Then 4 corners (small triangles). Topic: Knitting with Handspun Selecting a needle size to swatch Selecting potential patterns “My yarn isn’t good enough” The allure of spinning thin The allure of spinning smooth, worsted style yarns Measuring yardage in a skein Good first projects Good projects for textured yarn More intermediate to advanced considerations Do these yarns/fibers go together? Summer Spin In Memorial Day - Labor Day May 31st - September 6th Transcript Kelly 0:03 Hi, this is Marsha and this is Kelly. Marsha 0:05 We are the Two Ewes of Two Ewes Fiber Adventures. Thanks for stopping by. Kelly 0:10 You'll hear about knitting, spinning, dyeing, crocheting, and just about anything else we can think of as a way to play with string. Marsha 0:17 We blog and post show notes at Two Ewes Fiber Adventures dot com. Kelly 0:22 And we invite you to join our Two Ewes Fiber Adventures group on Ravelry. I'm 1hundredprojects, Marsha 0:29 and I am betterinmotion. We are both on Instagram and Ravelry. And we look forward to meeting you there. Both 0:35 Enjoy the episode! Marsha 0:43 Good morning, Kelly. Kelly 0:44 Good morning, Marsha. How are you? Marsha 0:45 I'm doing good. Kelly 0:47 Good. Marsha 0:47 How's the newest member of your family doing? Kelly 0:50 Oh, he's doing great. Beary is fitting in pretty well. He's walking up to about a mile now. He lags toward the end of a mile. But he's been able to go a mile. The first week... So a week ago he was at the vet. And he got his thyroid medication lowered. That's good. So now he's only on a point eight-- I think it's milligrams-- pill once a day instead of twice a day. So that's good. And he lost. He had lost last week he had lost three pounds. Marsha 1:28 All right. So and that's really not with any diet change. That's just the walking right? Kelly 1:32 Yeah. Well, more activity. I was trying to feed him the same amount that he had at the at the SPCA--hat they had told me they were feeding him. I was trying to feed him that same amount. It actually was a little bit less food than normal, because he wasn't really eating. And, you know, my dogs eat! Marsha 1:56 Yes. Kelly 1:57 Even Bailey. You know, she's, well, she had Nash to contend with, she had a lab to contend with. So she knows you put your nose in the bowll, and up until it's gone. And I don't know if she was like that before we got her. But she learned to be like that, at least having Nash around. And he wouldn't, he would eat a little bit. And then he'd walk out a little bit into the yard and then he'd pee. And then he walked back and he ate a little bit more. And then he like, walked over kind of towards Bailey to see if maybe she had something better. And I was like, okay, you're not gonna-- if you're not going to finish this, I'm going to pick it up because it's gonna cause a problem. So he wasn't finishing the whole amount. So then I started feeding him lunch, I thought, you know, I'd feed him lunch to help keep his metabolism high. And so I was doing that. But he wasn't really eating lunch. You know, he wasn't seeming hungry. And so he was getting a little bit less food. But anyway, yeah, he lost three pounds. And I don't know how much he's lost since then. Bu t I do think he's lost a little bit. His feet. [laughing] He looks like he's lost weight in his feet. Marsha 3:12 Oh, really? Kelly 3:13 That seems really strange. But that's the only place I can kind of tell. They look less puffy. Like his feet were really round, not like a shepherd. And the vet said she thinks he's mixed with Tibetan Mastiff. Marsha 3:28 Okay. That's very specific. Kelly 3:31 Yes. But I went and looked at their pictures. And he does kind of, he does kind of look like that. They have a tail that kind of arches over their back. And he doesn't have that. But they have the like, they call them cat feet in the standard. where, you know, their feet are round and tight. And the shepherds feet are more elongated. Marsha 3:56 Yeah, yeah. Kelly 3:57 So anyway. And his feet were like round and tight. And they still are, but they're less round. Like they look less round on top, you know? Marsha 4:07 Well, I mean, maybe he was retaining water or something. his ankles were swelling, you know, like my grandmother, [laughing] and, you know, with all this activity, things were moving, maybe. Kelly 4:17 Yeah, it's hard. It's really hard to tell. And you know, of course we can't weigh him because you can't pick him up and step on the scale with them the way you could with a smaller dog so so he'll have to wait till he goes to the vet again, for us to know for sure. I'm hoping I can get the vet to let us bring him just for our weight check. Because I don't want him to lose weight too fast. And that's part of-- that's part of regulating his thyroid if he is losing weight too fast. That could be an indicator that his thyroid medication is too high. So so I'm hoping the vet will, you know, say we can bring him in like every two weeks or something for just that. for free, just let them take him in and weigh him and bring him back out. Marsha 5:01 Enzo's vet you could just bring your dog in any time because they just have the scale there in the lobby. So you can just go weigh your dog. In fact, that's where I went. Remember that the big giant afghan? Kelly 5:16 Oh right! [laughing] Marsha 5:17 I went and weighed it on that scale.[laughing] Kelly 5:19 Marsha went to the vet to weigh her blanket! Marsha 5:26 Yeah, but now with the pandemic, you can't, I can't go into the lobby, Kelly 5:30 it's a little more of a thing of a production for them to come to them and get in weighed. So. But things are supposed to open here in California on June 15. And I don't know if that means everything. Like from then on. I actually think that the vets are probably secretly glad that no owners are in the office when they do their vet checks. Because dogs are always worse when their owners are around in situations like that. I think, I mean, they're probably-- I wonder if they'll... Well, I don't know what they'll do. But yeah, there's probably been some some added convenience to just picking the dog up in the parking lot and taking it in. Marsha 6:16 Well, and then you don't have all the animals in the lobby, too, because that's another thing, too, is altercations in the lobby. So yeah, well, that's exciting news that he's he's making some progress. Now. The thyroid medication, though, that's not because he's overweight, but he is... he will even if he loses weight, he'll be on thyroid medication. Kelly 6:40 Yeah. A weight gain is probably due to his thyroid issues. Okay. I mean, some of the weight gain might be other reasons. But some of it, I mean, definitely for a dog to be as overweight as he was, there was a thyroid problem there. That's what the vet said anyway. Marsha 7:01 And then, I'm assuming, given what you know about his history, which is very little, I'm assuming that the thyroid medication started after he went to the SPCA. Kelly 7:11 Yeah, they, they noticed that. They, they stitched him up from his wounds. And then they noticed that he wasn't kind of bouncing back. And he was very lethargic. And then, you know, the vet first thought it was just because of the what had happened to him and then being in the shelter. And then she decided, no, it's, he needs to have a blood test. So they did a blood test and his thyroid was was extremely low. So he's progressing nicely. He now lays on a pillow, it takes me about 10 times of putting him back before he is convinced that I mean it and just stays there. Or maybe he's just too exhausted. That's how I feel at the end of it! [laughing] Too exhausted Marsha 8:00 that you need to go lie down. Kelly 8:02 But the other day, I even I even came in and took a nap. And brought them back in with me during the day and you know, closed up the bedroom and, and took a nap for about an hour and a half and he was quiet in the bedroom. So he's got the routine, you know, the the normal routine plus, He knows, in this location, this is what I do. So that's good. In the backyard he's been fence fighting with the neighbor dogs, him and Bailey. So that's not good. But we're working on that. Marsha 8:31 And he and Bailey are doing well together. Kelly 8:33 go Yeah, they're having a great time. You know, they've had a couple of little tips, little fights, but nothing major. He's learning how to get into the truck. And in fact, that's one of the fights they had. He has decided that the truck belongs to him. And if she tried to get too close. If the door opens up on the truck in the backyard and she tries to get too close to it. That that's the two times they've had fights--it has been around the truck. So now I have to really watch when the truck gets opened that, you know, he...that the two of them are not real close to the door. Because he he now thinks that the truck belongs to him and she's not allowed to get near it. He loves his truck, which is good. That's what we wanted, but not quite. Marsha 9:22 He loves it a bit too much. So possessive of it. Okay, well. Sounds like making lots of good progress Kelly 9:26 Yeah, yeah, we have Marsha 9:31 So that proves that you can teach an old dog new tricks. Kelly 9:33 Yeah. Yeah. [laughing] Marsha 9:35 Fitting right in and learning that learning the routine. Hmm. Kelly 9:38 Well, I think the routine is the biggest part of it, you know, just having that. Like, this is what we do every day. And not necessarily always at the same time. But, you know, these are the, these are the things that we do. And then you gradually we've been gradually increasing what those things are. So, luckily the weather's been good and we've been able to use a lot of the outdoor space. School's almost over. Marsha 10:04 Oh, how many days? Kelly 10:06 I mean, well, I'm not... I wasn't counting it in days. But I guess I could now because we're in the middle of the second of the second to the last week. Next week is finals week. I'm so glad. This week though, I'm, packed with student appointments for them to go over things and do review and such.Mostly out of guilt. Because it's the end of the semester, and I haven't been able to do as good a job as I wanted with this online stuff. And so now I'm feeling like, Okay, well, I need to make up for that by by allowing for all this extra makeup work and all that. So yeah, a teacher's life! It's never good enough. Marsha 10:56 I thought of you because the other day this was oh, maybe two weeks ago. Ben had his-- one of his his instructors had office hours. There were three hours long office hours. And Ben was in the office for three hours. Kelly 11:12 Wow. Marsha 11:14 So like, yeah, I guess, all these students were coming in and going, coming in and going out. Kelly 11:19 Right. Marsha 11:19 But I thought of you and it's like, that was a long time to be in a meeting, you know. I thought of you when he was talking about this, Kelly 11:34 I think we all do it. Marsha 11:35 I'd have to go take a nap after that. Kelly 11:36 Yeah, I think we all do it at the end of the semester, you know, we want to give students all the opportunities that we can to get the material and yeah, and I, you know, I had such high hopes at the beginning of this semester that, you know, this time I was going to get the online thing. The second time around doing an online, I was gonna get it right. And of course, it doesn't feel like I got it right at all. But it was better than last time, I'm trying to have a growth mindset. [laughing] It was better than the last semester. So I have one class that's a repeat of the class I had last semester. And that class is better. And then this class, the calculus class I had last spring when we were half face to face and half online. And I have to say that the online portion of it, this spring is better than the online portion that I did last spring. So I have improved, and I have high hopes that it will be even better. In the fall semester where I'm online. I'm teaching both of these classes again. So totally growth mindset. I'm gonna be better. I haven't mastered it yet. But I will! You know, that kind of that kind of thing. But then there's a little bit of aspect of guilt, because you haven't done as good a job as you want to do so. Yeah. Yeah. But you know, that happens to me every semester, whether we're online or not, it's just a little bit exacerbated in the online environment. I always felt like I could have done better. Well, I tell new teachers, teaching is a black hole that you could pour all of your time in and never be good enough. So you can't be a perfectionist and do this job. Or you'll burnout. You know, you have to be--you have to be willing to say, Well, that was good enough. And I'll do better next time. Or I'll try. I might not, but I'm gonna try. So anyway, I'm just glad the semester is almost over. Marsha 13:40 Yes. And you have the whole summer to look forward to. Kelly 13:43 Mm hmm. And our summer spin-in. Marsha 13:48 So summer spinning! Should we get to get to the knitting and the fibery portion, the playing was string portion of the podcast? Kelly 13:57 Yeah. Marsha 13:58 So do you want to talk about your projects or... Kelly 14:00 Sure I am making really good progress. In fact, I'm crocheting on it right now. I'm making really good progress on the Persian tiles blanket. And I'm making it for my grand niece and calling it Faye's flower blanket. I don't have the name in the shownotes of the designer, but it's called Persian tile blanket. If you want to, if anybody wants to go look at it. And then I have it in my projects as Faye's flower blanket and that will be linked to in the show notes. But I've got all of the octagons done--20 of them! Which that was exciting when I got that last one done. In fact I almost made a 21st not remembering that I was--that I had been on 19 and 20 was done and then I reminded myself. So I moved to finishing the squares and all the squares are done. And then what I'm crocheting on right now is the last row of the last triangle. So now all I have to do are the four corners, which are also triangles. But this is lik-- it's called a triangle granny square, or granny triangle or something. So I'm on the last row of the last one of these. All I'll have are the four corners. And then Marsha 15:24 I'm looking at the projects on Ravelry. Then do you have you have to sew them all together? Right? Kelly 15:28 Yeah. And then I'll be all done. I'll be all done except for this big huge project and sewing them all together. [laughing] Marsha 15:35 Sorry to bring that up. But then it looks like it has a border around it to then do. Kelly 15:43 Let me look, I have the pattern right here. You know that I haven't... Marsha 15:46 By the way, Kelly, there's a border. [laughing] Kelly 15:51 [reading pattern] Once these are together you will have uneven blanket edges. To make an even edge you need to work around of stitches. So I do four, five, six rounds of edging! Kelly 16:07 Oh, no wonder I have so much yarn left! [laughing] Marsha 16:10 Yes. Kelly 16:17 I'm thinking, Oh, my God I have so much yarn left over. But it's gonna take a lot of yarn to go all the way around that blanket. I might have to buy more. [laughing] Marsha 16:27 And you made it a little bit bigger, you put some more squares on it. Kelly 16:30 Right. Yeah. Marsha 16:32 Um, also I'm sorry to be... Kelly 16:37 No, this is funny. This is an example of why you should read all the way through your pattern. Marsha 16:44 So but then also, what I was going to say is, I'm looking at the... I don't know if you're on Ravelry. But I'm looking at the other projects. Some of them have just the way you described. It looks like it's a very sort of simple border. But I'm looking at one and it's it looks like KayVicknits. And she has like a, like a lace border around it. I mean, an interesting... Kelly 17:07 Oh, wow. Marsha 17:08 And let's see if she has anything in the notes Kelly 17:10 I don't think I'll be... Marsha 17:12 But yeah, all the way around it. It's got like a triangles all the way around it. It looks like Kelly 17:18 Oh, interesting. Oh, I see. Yeah. So Oh, that is pretty. Yeah. Marsha 17:23 So if you really want to use up your all that yarn, Kelly 17:29 I actually...now that I'm looking at the border, I might have to buy, I might have to buy more yarn. But we'll see. I have an I have an awful lot of it left. I think I will just do the plain border though. On the edge. We'll see. I don't know. Getting it all sewn together is going to take a while. And the version that I'm doing will look more like the Eastern Jewels version. There was a kit, apparently, for this. There was the regular Persian tile blanket where it's all the same. Every octagon is the same. And then there was the eastern jewels version that had all the octagons different it looks like it's all different sizes of flowers. And that's the look I'm going for. And I think I've accomplished that. Marsha 18:22 Okay, Kelly, now go. I'm sorry, go look at the projects. Go look at bytheseashore, her project. And she has a very interesting border on hers. And in the show notes it actually said that she did the zigzag edging from LillaBjorn crochet. Kelly 18:42 Oh, so that is cute. She did.... So there's a little--there's a stitch in the octagon and the triangles, where you make a criss cross of treble crochets Marsha 18:53 Mm hmm. Kelly 18:54 And it looks like that's a criss cross. She's used that criss cross of treble crochets all around the edge. That is nice. Yeah. Huh. Okay, I'm gonna favorite her project. Because people who are listening, if you have not discovered this, if you save a project in your favorites, then on your project page, it will show those favorites in the lower... well for on the computer, it's in the lower right hand corner. So anything that I like the the comments on or that I'm interested in--I favorite that project and then that makes it pop up in my project page. Take a look at it. It's a nice, it's a nice feature because I've been... I've in the past had to kind of like you know, make a list of links of the ones that I wanted. And then I realized, oh, if I just favorite them. They show up at the bottom of my project page and I can get to them easily. So yeah, I'm really happy with it, I think it's turned out really nice. I am not looking forward to sewing it together. But I am looking forward to seeing it kind of come together. I've laid it out on the table. And I really like the way it looks. Yeah, it's really nice. It's like a riot of color. Marsha 20:23 Yeah. Well, it's Kelly 20:24 And I know there are people who say a riot is ugly, no matter what kind of riot it is. Marsha 20:34 Well, I think it's such an interesting project. Because as you say, it is a riot of color. But everyone's done such different things where it's like you're doing it, it's like, well, a riot of color. And then there's other ones that I think are equally beautiful, but they're very different, where they make every square, or whatever the main one is, exactly the same. And those are so it's very geometric. And it's and those are beautiful too. Kelly 21:01 Sort of Islamic or Moroccan looking. Yeah, like or well, Persian. It's called Persian tiles. Marsha 21:12 Right. And so the one I'm going on right now is KoKoRoRoknits And that's--she's done everyone exactly the same. And it's, it's very pretty, it's very geometric. Just a completely different look, you know? Kelly 21:26 Mm hmm. And actually kind of reminds me of Mexican tiles. Yeah. The the Mexican tiles that some people have on their houses or, you know, on on their steps, Marsha 21:37 Something to think about...your edging. Kelly 21:43 Yeah. I'm gonna have to reorganize the yarn and see what I have left and see what I can still do. Yeah. So anyway, that's, that's one project. And then I did make a couple of charity hats, a couple of nights where I didn't feel like crocheting. So I used som-- I have fingering weight yarns that I've kind of put together in a little kit, to use doubled for charity hats. So I just worked on those mostly--purples and pinks. And then the other thing is just the, I'm getting ready to start the socks out of the Bear Brand. Caprice yarn. And I wanted to mention, speaking of that yarn, we talked about that Bear Brand Caprice vintage yarn a few episodes ago. And just to remind you, that's the one that it says it's 100% virgin wool. But it really feels elastic. Like it's got some kind of elastic in it. And it looks like there might be an elastic ply. If you look really closely, there's a really thin ply. That looks like it might be elastic. So I think when they say...I don't know, it doesn't say 100%, it might say all, all virgin wool. I think they're referring to all the wool that's in it is not recycled. But it doesn't say on the label that the yarn is all wool. But anyway, we talked about this in a previous episode, how interesting this yarn is, and I am going to make a pair of socks out of it. I've ripped it out, ripped out the last pair and I'm going to restart them. Maybe today. I have a meeting this afternoon. It might be good meeting knitting, because I'll be done with my crocheting, most of it. Kelly 23:33 I got a message from Jane Haskell about our conversation of the bear Brand Yarn. She says "I heard you mentioned Bear Brand. Attached are copies of covers of two books. One has many socks, including Argyle circa 1950" and then she has in parentheses, "or MCML" because that's the way it was listed in Roman numerals and Marsha 23:56 Oh. [laughing] Kelly 23:59 If you can read Roman numerals. [laughing]"The other is circa 1939. Both were my grandmother's and have her notes in them. I have many more vintage books of my two grandmother's and two grand Aunts and possibly one great grandmother's that I am yard saling this summer." I would like to go to her yard sale Marsha 24:23 Yeah really! Kelly 24:23 [continues reading] "I do not have any bear Brand Yarn from stash that I inherited or if I do I've already sold or goodwilled it. I copied the inside of the cover of the 1939 books so you can see what it says." And she sent me that copy. "There are other pages about blocking, measuring, showing illustrations of measurements, and darling little swim costumes and so on." So she says she she loves our show and listens while she's driving. She lives on an island on an island in Maine's Penobscot Bay, where there is a knitting retreat this summer sponsored by Portland's, Maine yarn. Marsha 24:52 Okay, Kelly 24:53 So thank you, Jane for sending that information. The copies that sh sent me, were really interesting to look at about this yarn and I'm gonna, I'm gonna print it out and stick the page inside of the bag that I have the yarn in, so I won't forget,y ou know, what kind of yarn it is and where it came from. So that was interesting to get some information about my vintage yarn. Marsha 25:24 Yeah. Interesting. Well, yeah, maybe we have to get on a plane and go to her yard sale. [laughing] Kelly 25:33 Go and buy more knitting knitting books. I just got rid some a few years ago Marsha 25:39 I know, I just got rid of a whole bunch. But that doesn't stop me from dreaming. Kelly 25:44 I know. I know. There's so interesting to look through those, through those old fashioned, old fashioned books. That's the end of my projects. Marsha 25:53 Well, I don't have a lot to report. I'm knitting on my sock, right now as we're talking. The Drops Fabel Print that I've been working on a really long time. And I'm working on the gusset. I have one more decrease round. And then I'm just going to be doing the foot. So I don't know, maybe in two weeks, I'll have finished it. I don't know, it's sort of my you know, the mindless knitting that I do. Kelly 26:23 Yeah. Marsha 26:24 Then my Walk Along Tee. Um, you know, in the, in all the past episodes I've been talking about how I'm a little anxious about the quantity of yarn, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, last night, I knit to about 11, I think was about 11 and a half inches of the body, which they say to knit. And then what you are supposed to do is then you bind off, but then pick up stitches in the contrast color to make it so it looks like you know there's a T shirt under a T shirt, which I'm not going to do. But if you do that, it's more of a tunic length. And I don't want it tunic length. So I decided last night to put it on waste yarn and try it on. And I think I'm at the length I want. I'm so this is my... Well, I still have to do about a half inch of ribbing. And then what you're supposed to do then is, as I said, you bind that off and then pick up stitches to knit in stockinette in the contrasting color. What you do on the neck edge, and the sleeves, the cuff of the sleeve is you knit in ribbing, and then you change to the contrast in color and you just do, I believe it'd be reverse stockinette. So then that contrasting color sort of curls back and makes like a tube kind of you know, and so I I have to make some decisions. Do I put that same detail around the bottom of the sweater? Now I know a lot of people are saying, well, you don't really want to have a line around the widest part of your hip. I'm not too concerned about that. That never really bothers me having stripes. But I'm.... So I've decided how I'm going to do that. I'm also trying to decide should I just finish the sweater now? The bottom? Or should I just leave it on the waste yarn and go and do the sleeves and finish the sleeves? And then think about the bottom? That'll give me more weeks to think about it? Or do you know what I'm saying? Kelly 28:30 That's what I would do? Marsha 28:31 Okay, Kelly 28:31 Yeah, that's what I would do. Marsha 28:33 And then what I had planned on doing with the sweater is to make three quarter length sleeves. I may have enough yarn for that. Because I have... I just-- I had to put-- I have just two balls left I mean, so it's basically roughly a little less than one skein left because as I've talked about endlessly that those skeins I split into half into two cakes. So one of the cakes I've used maybe a quarter of it. The other cake, I just maybe did two rows of the body with the second one. So I think between the two of them, I would have enough to do three quarter length sleeves. But now I'm trying to think. I'm beginning to think I don't want three quarter length sleeves. I think I just want short sleeves, not cap sleeves, but just come down like mid because three quarter length would come down. Kelly 29:24 Like past your elbow. Marsha 29:30 Past my elbow. So I don't know. That's what I think. Kelly 29:31 that's what I think too. Marsha 29:32 And so I'm thinking maybe I just want it to come down. maybe longer like this. The the pattern shows that you just knit a few rows and then you start all of the ribbing and the contrasting reverse stockinette. So it's more of... it's like a short short sleeve. I'm wondering if I want to have it come down just just right before the break in my arm kind of, or above that. Kelly 29:55 Yeah. Yeah, Marsha 29:57 I have to do some thinking. Kelly 29:58 It's best not to have your... like they say you don't want to stop something at the widest part. And so it's best like not to have your sleeve stop at the biggest part of your bicep. Kelly 30:13 Okay. Kelly 30:15 So to either be up a little higher or down a little lower. Marsha 30:18 Okay, why is that? Kelly 30:19 I don't know, I guess it has to do with, like, to look flattering, you know? And I have no idea if it makes it makes it look smaller or if it just makes it look more balanced. You know, I don't know if it has to do with... When you say flattering a lot of times flattering is a euphemism for skinnier. Oh, yeah. That makes you look thin, right? And that's not what I mean. Marsha 30:51 Right. Kelly 30:53 So I don't know if that rule applies because it does make you look thinner, and that's what they mean by more flattering, or if it actually has to do with the aesthetics of it. And kind of the balance of the garment. Marsha 31:07 Do you remember that the T shirt you made? I think it was the Havasu Falls. And don't the sleeves hit... Kelly 31:13 I didn't make that. Marsha 31:15 Oh, what's the one? Kelly 31:17 Oh, Havana? I made one called Havana. Is it brown? Marsha 31:22 No, the one that was like, oh, and maybe it is brown. The pattern the Kelly 31:28 Summer Fjord? That's the one you made. That's my gold one. Marsha 31:35 No, no. Okay, I'm wrong on that. This is where we have the bad podcasting where we go down these rabbit holes that were not prepared. Let me look at...let me look at your projects. Kelly 31:52 I'm guessing it's probably Havana. Marsha 31:54 I think it is Havana. Kelly 31:58 It's a kind of a pale Brown. Marsha 32:00 But you made that quite a while and I'm having to scroll down through all of these. All of your projects. Oh, yeah, Havana? Yes, that one. Okay, so let me look at that one. Let me look. Oh, yeah. So those sleeves hit you right above the elbow kind of. You know, they're a little bit..they're not cap sleeves, but they're not three quarter length. Kelly 32:23 Right. Yeah, they're .... I put them... I made those end at the elbow, like right above my elbow. Marsha 32:31 Do you think that's a flatteringlook? I'm looking at the pin. Yeah, Kelly 32:33 I like it. Yeah. I like those sleeves a lot. Marsha 32:37 Okay. Kelly 32:39 I like that sweater a lot. I think it's a really flattering sweater. Marsha 32:41 Okay, so then my question is ..., Kelly 32:44 And by flattering. I don't mean it makes me look skinny. Marsha 32:50 Okay, so now I'm looking at Honey of a Tee and you have three quarter length sleeves. Do you like... are you happy with that? Kelly 32:58 Yes. Marsha 32:59 Well, you're no help because you like both of them. I Kelly 33:03 Well, it depends. I like those because... I like those because I think of that as a warmer sweater. Even though it's made out of cotton. I don't-- I don't think of wearing that sweater when it's warm out. The way I do the Havana, that one I wear when it's warmer. I actually think just looking at the pictures. I think that Havana sleeves look better. Marsha 33:31 So then this is my other... the question I have to then in my mind about this is a merino wool t shirt. So am I gonna wear it in the summer? So do I...? That's why I think I want a little bit longer sleeve than what they're showing in the picture. But I don't know. Yeah, I don't I don't want full length I've decided. But I am thinking... maybe that's why I was thinking originally three quarter length sleeves because it is a wool sweater. I don't know that I'd be wearing it in the summer. Kelly 34:07 But I think probably if I had made the sleeves on this-- the Lavender Honey is the pattern. I think if I had made the sleeves on that a little bit shorter, it would look a little bit less like my sheet sleeves are just too short. Oh. I like this sweater a lot. And I wear it a lot. But it does...Looking at the picture, it does look like maybe my sleeves are just a little too short. More than that I purposely made them that way. Marsha 34:41 Okay. Kelly 34:42 I mean, I don't think it's ugly. I like it. But it does. It does look like an odd length Marsha 34:48 I think... okay, well that helps Kelly 34:49 If you made them--if you made these sleeves, the longer sleeves I would say have them stop right after your elbow. Whereas mine go like halfway between my elbow and my wrist. Marsha 35:03 Yeah. And that's the thing with three quarter length sleeves, too, is you have to find that length that where it looks finished and not like I ran out of yarn. Kelly 35:16 Yeah, that... I mean, that is kind of the danger. You want it to look like it was on purpose. Yeah. Marsha 35:24 Anyway, so I'm making progress on that. And then the other thing I've been working on is spinning. And so yesterday, we had a beautiful day and I had been painting at the other house and I came home and I sat on the on my deck, yay! And I've got my--I've got my pots planted. And I've got the umbrellas out there. And so it's a very different, very different experience than a year ago at this time where it was a dust pit back there, no deck. But anyway, I was working on spinning. So I'm almost done. I think the... Okay, the last time we recorded I had ordered more fiber of the bitter chocolate, the dark brown. And I have that. I have not opened the package yet, I have probably another just 12 inches of the brown roving to spin, and a little bit of the green. So my plan is to ply that last of that green with the three ply with the three ply with the brown. Then all the brown that's leftover, I'm just gonna do a three ply of the solid brown. But I haven't finished plying the green and brown together yet. So I'm going to... I still have that to do. But I'm making progress, you know? Kelly 36:41 Yeah, that's a that's a big... I mean, it's a big spinning project to make a sweater. Marsha 36:46 Yeah, it is. Marsha 36:48 And I have not had... and honestly, I've just not had a lot of time to spin, or the time that I've had to spin, I've been so tired that I just get into bed and you can't spin in bed.[laughing] Kelly 37:01 Right. Marsha 37:02 Right. Anyway. So that's it for me for projects. I think it's a nice lead in to--talking about spinning a nice lead in to a question that we have from a listener. Kelly 37:13 So yeah, one of the questions that I've had was about knitting with handspun. And so I wanted to talk a little bit about you know, what, what has been our experience knitting with handspun and some things that especially new spinners can think about or use as tips or, or tricks or strategies or whatever. So one of the things that I kind of don't like to see is when people talk about how much handspun they have, and that they've never knit with it. Like, oh my gosh! You have to have to knit with your handspun. But now, if you were to ask me that when I first started spinning, I had no desire to knit with my handspun I just wanted to make yarn. And then of course, you know, the knitting and the weaving were partly self defense against all the yarn I was making. My main goal was to make yarn but but it is really satisfying to make something out of your own yarn. I think I always really enjoy it. So one of the things I just wanted to mention is how I select a needle size to swatch and I learned this a long time ago. And I usually, I mean I usually do this as a way to kind of identify what needle I'm going to start with. I get out my needle gauge and I double up the yarn and I poke it through the holes in the needle gauge and I look for one where it it goes through pretty easily. It isn't like scraping the edge the whole time. It's not so big that, you know, it doesn't touch at all. Where does the yarn doubled fit through the needle gauge the best? And that's where I start and then I usually swatch one down, one needle size down from that and one needle size up from that and then I look at my fabric. And then if if I think, oh, maybe I want to try a little bit looser or a little bit tighter I'll, you know, I'll go even further up or even further down but usually one up and one down gives me three choices. And one of those three choices is a fabric that I like and a gauge that I like and then I'll go look in Ravelry and use the gauge as one of the filters in the advanced pattern search. I think I've talked about that before--how I use that in the advanced pattern search. Marsha 39:42 and I'm just.. This is not about... This, my comment, too This is just about doing swatches. And this is not about handspun this was all swatches. And people probably know this but I had not known this and I think my friend Kim told me this, is that when you do your swatch, like if you're going to do three different... I just, I don't make three individual swatches, I just do--I make it all one. I just chang the needles. But to keep track of which swatch is which size needle, you put holes in there for the size needle. So if you're knitting on size three needles, you put three, you know, three yarn overs, knit two, and then knit two together, yarn over, knit two together, yarn over, knit two together, so you get three holes. So then when you look at your...right at the beginning of the swatch, so then when you wash it, you know which, which one is which. Yeah, so five yarn overs for if you're using five, size five needles, etc. Do you do that? Kelly 40:41 Yes. The only time that I haven't done that is been has been when my needle size is so big that I don't have enough. I don't have enough stitches on my swatch. And instead of making a bigger swatch, you know, wider swatch, I have just used a different technique, like, you know, make a little note or, or tie a little string on it with the right number of knots, or something like that. So, but yeah, I do use that technique a lot. You have to make sure that you swatch long enough if you do that. Because if you make little, you know, four row swatches, and one of your rows is holes. That's not going to give you a very good idea. Marsha 41:27 Yeah, yeah. Kelly 41:29 But, I like to, I like to make a good size swatch. And then I always wash the swatch too, just to see what that does to see what the fabric looks like. So yeah, and then I just select the pattern based on based on those patterns that match my gauge. Because I don't, I don't like the game of trying to get trying to get gauge, I'd rather get a fabric I like and then find a sweater that uses that gauge, then try to get a gauge that my yarn is not going to want to do. Marsha 42:03 Well and then also select a pattern that, beyond gauge, a pattern that will work with the type of fabric that you've created or what type of... because you know even with with handspun, but even commercially made yarns, some work in lace, some don't some work with cable, some don't. Some you know, some work with texture, some don't. So that's why another reason to make kind of a large swatch too is that you get a better sense of what it's going to look like. If you were to do cables, or Kelly 42:39 Yeah, like a really textured yarn. Don't bother with a really patterned a really detailed pattern like cables or, or... Well, that's sort of what happened with those socks, right? I was trying to, it wasn't handspun. But I was trying to use the Matcha pattern that had, you know, some texture to it, with a yarn that already had texture. And it was pointless. Marsha 43:05 Yeah, yeah. Kelly 43:06 So you do have to be be aware of that. So, but we've had a lot of people make things out of their very first handspun in the summer spin ins that we've had in previous years. So yeah, so I think I think we do have a good, a good track record of helping people and supporting people. And the group of people who are who are chatting in the thread, also giving a good, good amount of support to people who want to make something out of their handspun. Yeah, it's always fun to see that happen. Marsha 43:40 Yeah. Kelly 43:41 Now you've knit with your handspun. I mean, you're not a new new spinner, but you knit with your handspun. And right away. Marsha 43:48 Well, my very first one that I made, I think it's still in a ball. And then I'm like, Oh, I'm going to spin some yarn and I'm going to make a hat for Ben. That thing is like it weighs... It feels like it weighs a pound. I should weigh it. It feels like a weighs a pound. Super dense. super heavy. But you know, I will never throw it away. And then I... so this kind of leads into another thing we were just going to mention. But anyway, I said I was gonna make him a pair of socks. And out of my handspun. And I was going to try, I was trying to spin fingering weight or sock weight you know, but it's worsted weight. And so these are very heavy, heavy socks and they're... and I got the... You wouldn't think that I would get the stitch count off given that they were so big. There wouldn't be that many stitches for a worsted weight pair of socks. But one of them I got this. I don't know how I did it, but I have too many stitches. So one is significantly larger than the other. So but I still have those But just a side note about the comments about the yarn isn't good enough and the allure of spinning thin. One of the things like I talked about that a lot, I don't seem to be able to spin... To date, I have not been able to spin yarn that's finer than DK, perhaps. It's always ends up being worsted weight Kelly 45:28 Well, and you always make a three ply. Right? I mean that you could make it... you could, you could have a fingering weight yarn if you use the singles. At this point, Marsha 45:41 yes, yeah, yeah. , Kelly 45:45 or maybe only two ply, Marsha 45:48 yeah. The but then I've made I guess I've made two sweaters with my yarn, right? Did I make two sweaters? Because I did the, I can't even remember! Kelly 46:01 You made two combo spins. Marsha 46:02 I did the combo spins. And I made two. And I really I have to say I just really like knitting with the handspun. It's a different experience knitting with handspun. Because there is, because I I'm a newer spinner than you are. And that first combo spin I think was the first time I had spun a sweater quantity of yarn. And so because it is handspun, there is variation. And that's actually kind of fun to knit with to see. I found it enjoyable. It just yeah, it felt really good to knit with my handspun and I don't know, it just... it's it's because of the irregularities it's just much more textural and but when you actually knit.. Kelly 46:52 There's so much more life. So yeah, there's some element of life to it, that... Marsha 46:58 it has a bit more soul to it. Kelly 47:01 And also, I mean, it has a little bit more spring to it, too. I mean, really, I mean literally has more spring in it, I think, than a commercial yarn. Its more elastic. I mean, it depends on what you're spinning, but for the most part, I think my handspun is much more elastic than than any commercial yarn. Yeah. Marsha 47:27 Yeah, I just like it. It was very enjoyable to knit with. Kelly 47:29 Your first project wasn't a sweater, but I know of people whose first project has been a sweater. And I, you know, I'm not gonna say... I'm not gonna stop anyone from jumping in feet first like that. But I think some good first projects are like what you mentioned. A hat is a good first project. I made potholders out of the the really ropey heavy, dense yarn that I made originally. I made potholders, I made a little bag for my spinning wheel oil, and the potholders I felted. So they were really nice and thick. So those are good, some good first projects. But a hat is a good project, a cowl is a good project. Socks, I think probably better if... One of my first projects was socks, too. And they were super dense. In fact, I, I couldn't I could barely knit two together. Because the yarn was so thick, and my needles were so small. And they you know, I just, I had an impression of how thin the yarn was, when it really wasn't, you know. Marsha 48:43 And, and that was my experience with the socks that I made for Ben. It was so dense that it's very difficult too. My hands hurt and knitting together for the decreases was really, really challenging. Kelly 48:59 Yeah, so probably, I mean, probably you were using needles more along the lines of sock needles, using a yarn that was closer to worsted weight. Marsha 49:08 Yeah, yeah. Kelly 49:09 And so slipper socks would be a better, a better choice, you know, a worsted weight pair of slipper socks would be a better a better choice probably then. Just for ease of, ease of knitting. But yeah, there are a lot of I mean, there are a lot of good projects for handspun. And this idea that your yarn isn't good enough. I mean, a lot of people will say that, you know, I want to get better before I use my yarn. I would say... I would say your yarn is good enough. It's a matter of the right, you know, finding the right project for it. And it's only the super early yarn that is so dense and ropey. I mean, people quickly, I think, move from that sort of ropey plying, really dense plying. And that happens pretty quickly. Marsha 50:02 Well and that ropey hat that I made. You can see, you know, when you when you're plying and you get those little corkscrews, that you can't undo and lots of that! And so and you can... so many of you can actually see it in the finished project. But you have to start somewhere. Kelly 50:23 That's right. That's right. Marsha 50:25 But I have to say, with the two sweaters that I made, as I say, the yarn is, has character, you know, they have thin bits and thick bits... Kelly 50:38 Beautiful! Marsha 50:39 Oh, yeah. They're, I think they're really nice. The, but what I was going to say is that, and we've talked this about this before, but you have thick and thin bits in the single, but then when you ply it, that changes. But you still may, even if you still have thick and thin bits after you ply it, that all changes again, when you knit it up. Kelly 51:02 Yeah. Marsha 51:03 And so those thick and thin parts really begin to sort of just disappear, I think. And worst case scenario, if you have one, that's just one spot that's super, super thin or super, super thick, you cut it out and just Kelly 51:17 Right, Marsha 51:18 spit, splice the yarn together and keep knitting, you know, Kelly 51:21 if you have a bad spot, or if you have one of those pigtails from plying that you don't want to be in your... Marsha 51:27 Oh, that's what it's called? Kelly 51:28 The pig tail is what I call it. I don't know if it's...I don't know if that's what it's called or not, but that's kind of what I call it. Marsha 51:39 So, um, but then Kelly, uh, how about measuring the skein? Kelly 51:44 Oh, yeah, that's the other thing that happens when you're new, is you have a misperception about how much yarn you made. And, and there does seem to be not so much anymore. There used to be a lot of, a lot of I don't know, like, you know, the social media kind of pressure about spinning that I didn't have, because there wasn't social media. Right? I didn't know what other people's spinning looked like, you know, other than when I went to guild meetings and saw it on, you know, saw what they were working on. But I didn't do that very, I didn't do that that often. And Spin Off had episodes, they had issues where they started to after-- I'd been spinning quite a while-- they started having issues where you would send your yarn to them, and they would photograph it and they would put the skeins in the magazine, the photographs. And that was the first time that I really had a ton of exposure to other people's yarn. And that wasn't even, you know, real life exposure, but picture exposure. So I didn't have you know, the pictures that people will post. And I'm not, I'm not criticizing people for doing this. But I think somebody, the way people perceive it is different, like people will post pictures, and they'll put a coin along with yarn, right. And the idea is to give you some some element of scale, you can tell how, how thick or thin the yarn is. But sometimes I think when I see, you know, some of these pictures are especially... it used to be more common. I would see I would see these pictures or I would hear people talking about how thin their yarn was. And it was like that was the only thing that was valuable was the thin yarn. Like if it wasn't thin it was not worth spinning or doing anything with and you had to try to get as thin as possible. Well, there's a use for thin yarn. But I don't knit with lace weight all the time. Marsha 53:47 Right? Kelly 53:48 So like, what are you going to do with, you know, dozens of skeins of lace weight and thinner. So you know, make the yarn that's going to fit what you're going to... what you're going to make. And so if you like knitting with DK weight yarn, then that's the weight that you should try to spin for. If you like fingering weight yarn, then you can try to spin for fingering weight and that'll you know, that'll mean your plies are a little thinner. But experiment, you know, with thick yarn and thin yarn. And there's nothing inherently better about spinning thin, I guess is my my point. And then the other thing that's also true is the worsted yarn. A lot of times I'll see at a spinning event that, you know, people are spinning like this. They call it inchworm style. And again, there's nothing wrong with spinning in that in that way. It makes it very smooth, compressed yarn, because you're only letting a little bit of fiber out and then you're smoothing it down before you advance it. So it makes it very smooth, and also very compressed yarn. Which is fine if you're wanting worsted style yarn, right? That's what worsted style is. Very smooth and compressed. But if you want something fluffy or light, then you know use a different spinning style. And you'll have fluffier yarn or it'll have a halo to it. And there's something nice about about the fact when you wash it, it gets a little bit fuzzy, you know, more fuzzy. So I guess... I guess the point I'm trying to make is that, I would suggest if you're a new spinner, just spin and see what happens. I mean, it's... Yeah, it's good to have goals. And it's good to try things like to give yourself a lesson or a challenge. You know, for learning. But when you're first spinning, I think, just spin and see what happens. And some fibers are going to want to be more smooth and other fibers are going to turn into a yarn that's really fluffy. And sometimes you're going to get a yarn that's thick, and sometimes you're going to get a yarn that's thinner, depending on the, the, you know, the fiber that you're using. And that's how and then you can kind of learn what they say, like what the fiber wants to be. And then don't try to make fiber be a way doesn't want to be. Marsha 56:25 Right. Kelly 56:27 So anyway, that's... Yeah, I think that's kind of an important thing to think about. Marsha 56:33 But we started this about measuring the yardage. And so Kelly, you want to talk about how you how you measure or how you taught me to measure the skein? Kelly 56:42 Yeah, How did I get from... because you said that already...measuring the yardage. How did I get off... Marsha 56:47 I know, I'm trying to guide you back on topic graciously, but I don't think I did it very graciously. [laughing] Kelly 56:55 No, that was nice, Marsha. Thank you. [laughing] Kelly 56:59 Measuring the yardage. Be careful when you measure on the niddy noddy because it's going to be stretched. So like I have what's called a one yard niddy noddy. And it's not actually one yard. Like if I, if I measure a piece of yarn that goes around, even if I use like cotton string that doesn't stretch at all, and I go around my... or if I take the tape measure and go around my niddy noddy, it's not quite a yard. It's a little short of a yard even though it was advertised as a one yard niddy noddy. And then if I wind the yarn on to it, of course, it's tight. So just counting how many times... Actually it's a two yard... Sorry, it's a two yard niddy noddy. So just counting the number of times I went around doesn't really give me the yardage that I have. That... I did that, I made that mistake. I made that mistake before. Thinking I had way more yarn than I actually had. Yeah. So now what I do is, after I've washed it, skeined it up and washed it, I just lay it out kind of flat on the ironing board or on the table. And then I just measure, I just measure how long that skein is kind of, on average, like I put the tape measure, kind of in the middle of each end and and measure. And then I just you know, and I count how many, how many threads there are. Marsha 58:21 Now you do that though, after you've washed the yarn. Kelly 58:25 Yeah, I do it after I've washed it. And, and I don't count it while I wind it on because I can't do that. You know, I could count and say, Oh, I went around, you know, 300 times as I'm winding it on. I don't usually do that. I usually count them after it's been washed. Just because I know I'm not going to keep track while I'm winding. Marsha 58:50 Okay, well, do you want to know what I do? Kelly 58:52 What do you do Marsha 58:53 So because you gave me the niddy noddy, your extra niddy noddy and so I think we have the same one it's the two yard one. So in theory, what I do is I do count as I wrap around the niddy noddy I count up to 20 and then make a mark on it on a piece of paper. Kelly 59:11 You're much more disciplined! Marsha 59:12 And then because I could not count 300 I would lose track right? But if I just count to... and if I'm really distracted I just count to 10 but I count around 20 times mark on a piece of paper or 20 times mark it so then it ends up being... say I have it's I've wrapped around 80 times it usually ends up being an odd number you know 87 times. Then what I do is I multiply that by two and then I measured the length, I take it off the knot and I don't stretch it really tight but I just hold it straight out and I measure it usually it ends up being 30 inches Kelly 59:48 yeah mine's somewhere around there. Marsha 59:51 So what I end up doing... but I haven't washed it yet though. So what I do is I then my math is you know the number of wraps-- times I've wrapped around, say it's 87 times, times the length, which is 30 inches, then doubled times two, then I divide it by 36. Kelly 1:00:11 Right. Marsha 1:00:11 And that tells me how many yards I have. Approximately. Now, I have not. So this the yarns that I'm working on now, I then I put a tag on it. You know what the fiber is, how many yards, approximately, I think I have based on that, then I weigh it to figure out how many ounces I have. You could also do grams too, but how many ounces that skein is. And then in the lower right hand corner of the tag, I put a one and then a slash, you know, like if you're gonna do percent, one slash, and then when I'm all done... So you'll have one, you know, a skein one, skein two, skein three. And then when I'm all done, I fill in how many skeins I have. So it's one of ten, two of ten, three of 10. Don't ask me why I do that. Just because I'm I, it might be kind of weird. But then I know what was my first skein. And what was my last skein. And I was thinking the reason I... Well, actually I do, actually, you can ask me why I do that. Because I do have a reason why I do that. Marsha 1:01:17 Why do you do that Marsha? Marsha 1:01:19 So that my theory is, when I start, say I'm going to knit a sweater, then I can knit with my first and my last skein. Maybe alternate my first and last skeins. And so that is because there is going to be variation, I would think because you are like, for example, this green and brown that I'm spinning, it's it's over a period of months that I'm spinning it. And sometimes I take a week or two weeks break that I'm not doing anything. So there is going to be variation between the first skein and the last skein just because, yeah, weeks, months or years have gone past, right. So that's sort of my idea is well if I then can blend them, keep track of those skeins, I can blend them as I'm knitting, alternate those skeins. Kelly 1:02:05 That makes sense. I think you would especially if you were a newer spinner, it might get finer as you go, even if you're trying to keep it consistent. And even if you have a control card, you know, or a piece of yarn that you're using to spin to, it's very likely that you are going to get better, your spinning is going to improve. And and a lot of people when their spinning improves, they do end up you know, they have more facility with drafting and they do end up with a thinner yarn. Yeah. Marsha 1:02:36 And then the other thing I do is I... So with that first skein, so I know I have say 150 yards and it weighs two ounces. I know that my... so then I then I can figure out well, how many yards am I getting per ounce? Kelly 1:02:53 Yeah. Marsha 1:02:54 And so, and I have... I'm starting with this many ounces of fiber, it gives me a little bit so it's not accurate, because it's only my first skein. But it gives me kind of a sense of like, well, how much yarn do I think I'm going to get, how much yardage am I going to produce out of so many ounces of yarn. And then as I say, then I add in skein two, skein three, and it's to see... And it's pretty accurate from that first skein, even as I started adding and doing the math to see how many ounces or-- excuse me-- rephrase that. How many yards per ounce I'm going to get. It stays pretty consistent as I started adding in the skeins. Does that make sense what I do. Kelly 1:03:37 Yeah. And then that gives you an idea whether you have enough fiber or do you like in this particular sweater quantity that you're spinning right now. You decided you needed to buy more fiber, because you knew you weren't going to get the yardage that that you were hoping for. Yeah, no, I think that's I think that's really good. I think those are kind of our main thoughts about knitting with your handspun. Or crocheting, doing any kind of working with your handspun. like, how do you find... Marsha 1:04:05 Or weaving? Kelly 1:04:06 Yeah, yeah, we didn't even talk about weaving, weaving is a great thing to do with your handspun. because textured yarn makes really nice weaving projects. And you don't need to worry about gauge. Marsha 1:04:24 So what are what are what are good projects for textured yarn, in knitting or crochet, do you think? Kelly 1:04:34 Um, I Well, I think the the slipper socks is a good one because it will be... they will be nice and squishy and I think a nice cowl would be good in a textured yarn. You know, for for knitting or crocheting. Marsha 1:04:50 What about people who are more advanced and you start doing sort of like those, what's the word... Art art yarns, you know. Like they actually spin...that's what I was thinking of like when you spin in, you intentionally spin like thick and thin, exaggerated... Kelly 1:05:11 Yeah, I've seen some really pretty sweaters with the slubby yarn, you use kind of a loose gauge and that way the the real slubby parts can, can show up. Well, like my Sonny Bono jacke is at a really loose gauge, and that yarn is definitely art yarn, you have all those locks sticking off the yarn. So I do think a looser gauge is best for those kinds of yarns. And you could use them as... I've seen people use them as like the, the, you know, brim of a hat and then the rest of the hat is ... like the the part you fold, or like a cuff, you know, on a sleeve or a yoke like a stripe in the yoke. So you could use your handspun along with something else. And that's a really nice way to to use up just a one skein, you know, one small skein of yarn? Yeah, in a project that's not a handspun, not fully a handspun project. Marsha 1:06:17 Do you have anything more you want to add on this topic? Kelly 1:06:18 I don't think so today. I think that's, that's good. And then we'll add other topics. And we're interested in knowing... I put a question in the summer spin in chat thread, to let us know if you know if there's anything that you would want to hear about during the spin in. The topics that you'd like us to talk about in spinning on the podcast, you can do that. You can send us an email, you can contact us through our website. Two Ewes Fiber Adventures dot com. We have a Contact Us page, you can contact us there. You can contact either me or Marsha on Instagram, through direct message and we can add your your question to our to our topic list. Marsha 1:07:01 And we'll talk more. Hopefully, we'll get a lot of good questions. And we'll add some. We'll talk about spinning over the next few months. Because just a reminder, the summer spin in starts. It's Memorial Day through Labor Day, which is May 31 through September 6. And so we'll be talking more about spinning over the summer months. Kelly 1:07:23 Yeah it's a good three months, a little more than three months of spinning. Marsha 1:07:28 By September, people will be saying, please stop talking about spinning! You've spun us dry. [laughing] Kelly 1:07:40 Anyway. All right. Marsha 1:07:41 So I'm excited about projects plans. So anyway,so Kelly, do we have any anything else we wanted to say? Kelly 1:07:51 I don't think so. Marsha 1:07:52 Should we say goodbye? Kelly 1:07:53 Yeah. Yeah. Let's say goodbye. We'll see everyone in two weeks. We'll talk to everyone in two weeks. All righty. Bye. Bye. Marsha 1:08:04 Bye. Kelly 1:08:04 Thank you so much for listening. To subscribe to the podcast visit to Two Ewes Fiber Adventures dot com Marsha 1:08:12 Join us on our adventures on Ravelry and Instagram. I am betterinmotion and Kelly is 1hundredprojects. Until next time, where the Two Ewes doing our part for a world fleece! Transcribed by https://otter.ai

*CW - Mental Health / Suicidal Ideation* You know what happened, we know what happened, and I - Well. I had a fucking MASSIVE case of the sads, knowwhatifuckin'mean? Of course you do. If you've been following the epicness that is King Falls, you were devasted on 5/1 as well, but maybe not bawling your head off in a crowded parking lot like I was (Still unashamed!) In this episode, you will find....! * News! * DIscussion of other podcasts! * Our feelings about KFAM, Beyond the Falls, and The Make Believe Show * Mother FUCKING REDDIT (Yeah, I said it!) * Fanfics * A special guest! ;) Thank you for 2000 listens all, we appreciate the holy everloving fuck outta all ya'll, as well as the cast and crew of this once in a lifetime motherfucking MAGIC. We'll be back in three weeks. - Peace out, brook trouts - Dawn and Dana --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/shotgunsammy/message

Get Your FREE COPY of  my book, 3 Signs of A Toxic Relationship, Now...   www.marissafayecohen.com/signs-of-a-toxic-relationship   Can you heal from abuse?  What do I do after leaving my narcissist? What does a healthy relationship look like? These concerns cross the minds of over 20 people every minute; over 28,800 people every day.  And the sad fact is, we still don’t talk about it enough.  Healing from Emotional Abuse isn’t a bandaid situation.  But it doesn’t have to take years either. The lives of millions of other survivors around the worlds have been impacted by their narcissist.  Yours doesn’t have to.  To show you how to live a free, confident and peaceful life, your host and Founder of the Healing From Emotional Abuse Philosophy, Marissa F. Cohen.   Marissa: Hi, I'm just waiting for my partner in crime Orsika to jump on here, so that we can start talking about some very important topics today. One second to try and find her. So, one of the things that Hello,    Orsika: Hello,    Marissa: How are you today?    Orsika: I am great. How are you today?    Marissa: I'm good that today. I think our topic is did you lose me, I think.    Orsika: Nope, I have you now.    Marissa: Okay, cool. Awesome. So, do you want to introduce yourself, and then we'll talk about the topics we're going to talk about today.    Orsika: I think that's a great idea. So my name is Orsika Julia. And I am the owner of out of the quicksand, which is specifically designed, it's my business specifically designed for parents who have overcome domestic violence and want to just live a better life for life of healing and forgiveness. And, you know, just get out of your quicksand because living in survival mode, let's be honest, sucks. As a parent, fresh out of, you know, when you're fresh out of domestic violence as a parent, you kind of tend to forget about yourself care, because you're wanting to care for your family. So I come and guide you on how to really heal your family through healing yourself. So that's what I do.    Marissa: Awesome. And I'm Marissa, I'm a healing coach and a bestselling author. I work with survivors of domestic violence and sexual assault as well, to help them on their healing path using my three point philosophy called the healing from emotional abuse philosophy. And so welcome. And today, oh, Orsika, and I want to talk about this, this TikTok trend, the National rape day trend that's being talked about a lot. And so do you want to start, or should you    Orsika: You get to start with your sister? And I'll just take it right after you? Yeah, it's so because I don't TikTok.    Marissa: So I actually barely TikTok and people kept sending it to me, which is the only way I found out about it.    Orsika: Awesome. I'm glad they did.    Marissa: I know me too. So if you're not familiar, the TikTok trend was it says created by six men that were saying that April 24 is National rape day and then that sexual assault and rape is legal on April 24, and encouraging people specifically encouraging men to rape as many women as they can this coming Saturday on April 24. Now, that caused a frenzy backfire from survivors and women all over the world, making videos warning their friends, warning people around them what's happening and to be aware of Saturday Night, because this group of people was basically giving advice on how to successfully sexually assault as many women as possible. According to the USA Today, they haven't actually found any evidence at that original video exists. And I don't know, but I do know that the frenzy it's caused has created a lot of fear in the survivor community and truly in the in the community of women online. So which do you have any, any insight or any quick thoughts about that?    Orsika: Yeah, thoughts? I think that's totally disgusting. Like, what is our world coming to Right? Like? Why? Let me back up for the men to have these thoughts that this is okay. Really, really hurts me for their soul and for their life? Like, what? upstanding gentlemen which obviously, they aren't. Yeah, but what human Okay, like, let's not even give them all those condolences and caveats, but what human who is of sound, mind and spirit? think that this is okay. So they're very, very broken. And we have to understand that like, people who hurt people come from a very broken place. I'm not saying it's okay by any means. Because I was raped by my husband, ex now but by the husband. And it's nowhere near okay, but to understand that these people are very, very hurt, you know, and they're just going to continue hurting. And the more fire or more coals that we put on the fire, the more hurt people are going to hurt people and that's just not okay. That's just not okay.    Marissa: Yeah, I agree. I mean, I definitely am fundamentally against people banding together to rape a collection of people, I think that's just a disgusting thought. And it's horrible. You're a better person than I am. Because for me, I don't even care about their condolences. I'm just like, are there anything I state? Right? I don't care about their mental state, like if you have the wherewithal to plot together to, to, to hurt as many people as possible, like, my hope is that they're trying to find actively trying to find the people that started this and all of the people that continue to, to enforce this idea, and throw them all in jail. I mean, I would love to see them all behind bars for at least a week. And the reason that I stopped at a week is because less than 2% of convicted rapists actually spent one day in jail, less than 2%. And so having people that are potentially attempted rapists who are perpetuating this awful rumor or, you know, event should all be    Orsika: Hate crime, really hate crime?    Marissa: Absolutely. They should all be locked up.    Orsika: I guess my question for them is do you have a mother? We all do? And how would you feel if somebody raped your mother? As she was taking her dog for a walk? How would you feel if this was your little sister? Like? Just that? Okay. It's just an I understand, I truly do that hurt people hurt people, right? Like I said, but how would you feel? How would you feel? If it was your mother? How would you feel if it was your baby sister? Or heck better yet? Dare I say? How would you feel if it was your daughter? How would you feel if somebody came up to your daughter who was going on a walk? Just casual walk, and she got gang raped?    Marissa: I mean, the thought of that gave me chills, and I don't even want to explore that thought, you know, having gone through it myself, and you haven't gone through it yourself. You know, I understand the toll that it takes on the victim on the survivor. And the very thought of that, like makes me itch.    Orsika: Yeah, especially when you think of like, the 12 year old daughter, the 13 year old daughter. So if you happen to be watching our happy little video, and you think that this is okay, you have a relative who is a female? Is it okay? Think about it. Like it's stupid. And it's asinine.    Marissa: I agree. It's never okay. It's never ever. And as, as for any survivor listening, if this did happen to you know that it wasn't your fault, and there was nothing that you could have done in that moment that you didn't do to protect yourself. So let's, I could talk about how much I hate assault. But let's move to ways for survivors are ways for people to keep themselves safe, in case, April 24, is what they're saying it's going to be a case it is basically people breaking out and assaulting as many people as possible, what are some ways that people can keep themselves safe in any scenario?    Orsika: Well, for one living in fear is not an option, right? That's not going to keep you safe. That's just going to keep you close to it. And that's not okay, either. So, I mean, definitely don't just hide in a corner unless, unless you're raped, like, let's say, you've been through it, and it's been recent, then please stay inside and hide in a corner. Like that's okay. Like, it's totally okay. But more importantly, just be aware of your surroundings and go with people. So go out by yourself, ladies, like, just use common sense, don't you think Marissa like, don't go out by yourself. If you can avoid staying in the dark, you know, evil lurks in the dark corners, right? And just stay in, if you if you must be out at night, you know, let's say you want to go clubbing or you're at a friend's birthday party or whatever, then just be smart and go in groups. And that means travel in the car and groups. You know, they're unfortunately, you know, the evil that is out there is smart, right? And you think, Oh, I went to my car and a group and we all Park together but you don't. And I'm not saying this to put fear in you, but you don't know what's in the car. So travel in packs,    Marissa: Traveling packs with people you trust a minute? Yeah. Because Yeah, 85 I'm sorry. 90% of sexual assaults take place by somebody who's an acquaintance of the survivor. And I think 85% of those are somebody that's in an intimate relationship. And so not only traveling paths, which is so important, and be very aware of your surroundings, but only go out with people that you trust, trust. You know, just keep yourself safe. You know, if you put a drink down, don't pick it back up. There are over 55 different drugs and things people can put in drinks, that will knock you out for at least eight hours, including but not limited to vising. If you squirt a couple drops of vising, the eye drops into somebody's drink, they're going to be in the bathroom all night. If you empty a whole bottle, which is like what that big, right that right, take two seconds to empty, that thing knocks you out for eight straight hours. So put it    Orsika: And this doesn't let me piggyback off of that, too. This isn't just men raping women. Right? Like, you can't have a woman raping a woman. And you can't have a man raping a man. So this isn't just going out and rape all the women, you know, this is like, just be cognizant traveling packs that you trust and be aware of your surroundings. Always, not just Saturday, like always.    Marissa: Absolutely. Another trend that I saw, I think a couple years ago, was people drugging men, so that they could take the you know, their, their partner, the female they were with away with no fight. So even if you're a man, you know, put your drink down, do not pick it back up. If it's really that much of an issue, because the drink was expensive. Then text. Hold on Twitter, text me and I'll Venmo you like, I'll buy another drink? Because I'd rather you be safe than and be out $12 then, you know, then have this happen more to people who don't deserve it? You know? Right? Right. Right, anybody deserves it.    Orsika: Just putting that out there.    Marissa: Nobody deserves to get paid just for choice in words. What other ways? Can people keep themselves safe? Aside from traveling in packs? And you know, not picking their drinks, surrounding themselves by just trying to get in?    Orsika: I mean, don't say again, don't stay in from fear, but stay in, you know,    Marissa: Make a choice to stay in a choice?    Orsika: Absolutely, like have your gathering and somebody's apartment or house or, you know, keep it safe. I mean, that's, it's more fun that way anyway, because you don't have to deal with the idiots in the world.    Marissa: Right? Or if you are going out or doing something during the day or at night, what about sharing your location with somebody or sharing your somebody, you know, just in case, I always have my location shared with three people. It's always my mom, and then two people who are either in the vicinity or who I have spoken to and told them where I'm going that way. If something were to God forbid, happen, knock on wood. People know where I am.    Orsika: Yeah, and that's something so this is the generational difference, right? Like versus just a tinge younger than I am just a little bit. She's my, she's my younger sister, but from another mister. But like, I don't even think about that. Right. And your generation and younger definitely thinks about that. And I think it's great. So I have my, my son, he's, you know, I can find him wherever he goes, right? Because I have that turned on for him. But I don't really go anywhere that people don't know where I am. But I think that's an amazing recommendation, like, have your location device on. Right. That way. If you are in trouble, then the authority can find you faster as well.    Marissa: Absolutely. There's an interesting story that I Well, a person who came to the safe house I was working out a couple years ago, the only reason she knew where she was when she woke up after a night of being drugged and sexually assaulted was because she called an Uber to her location, and then was able to look back at the location that she called Uber from, and that's how they found the perpetrator. And if she didn't have her location on that wouldn't have been an option. Right?    Orsika: And I love that that is an option. And I understand why people don't want to have their location and all the time. Like I get that you want your private life to be private, but it could save your life. So be smart. Get over your pride and turn location on.    Marissa: Absolutely. Can you think of anything else? Because I'm kind of I got my second vaccine today. I have my microchip in. I'm just kidding. But yeah, no, so I'm like, slightly groggy. But do you have any other ideas or tips and tricks that people could use?    Orsika: Techniques I mean, really common sense. Take a pocket knife are allowed to take pocket knives into places you know, just a little bit each pocket knife. They're what 15 bucks or so.    Marissa: Something like that. I think as long as it's smaller than your palm at least scans Illinois and New Jersey. You can legally have it with you.    Orsika: Well, Michigan laws are totally different    Marissa: In New Jersey or Illinois, but Pepper Spray pepper spray. Sure. I mean, you got 711 for like, Yeah, absolutely.    Orsika: And this, we're not saying this folk to put fear into your brain or into your soul or anything like that we're saying this just so you use your common sense. And sometimes we forget things like, I wouldn't have remembered to turn off turn on my location, because again, I really don't go out, I definitely don't go clubbing. And when I do go out, it's, you know, to visit Marissa. So, in her nice, comfortable place. I mean, I have a firm to take care of, I don't really have the luxury of I don't give myself the luxury of going out and quote unquote, right. So, again, we're not saying this to diminish your intelligence, we're saying this to keep you protected, and maybe give your ideas that are not in the foreground of your of your mind, right. And if you have any other suggestions or thoughts of ways people can keep each other safe and themselves safe. definitely leave it in the comments we would love to hear. Because I'm sure that we didn't cover everything right. Marissa    Marissa: Yeah, definitely.    Orsika: Yeah. And I'm sure people will come up with amazing things, right, a skateboard and beat the crap out of somebody with a skateboard or longboard, I guess it's like, look around, be aware of your surroundings, and see what you can use to protect yourself if the need is there. I mean, if you're drinking a drink, and you need to whack somebody upside the head with the beer bottle, then by all means it's better than getting raped or sexually assaulted.    Marissa: Absolutely. And be friendly with your server or bartender. And I don't mean like, tip them generously. You know, I mean, like, you know, let them know that you're, you're nervous, or if you need help, like they are trained generally, to take care of situations like that, or have protocols in place to take care of something like that. Sure. You can easily get you out, they can get you separated from somebody who you're afraid of. If you're starting to not feel, well get to a safe place with a safe person. Now it's all coming, you know,    Orsika: Ask for help. It's okay to ask for help.    Marissa: People are generally like, Oh, my gosh, programmed to want to help you, right? We all want to help each other in a way. Except people who are scumbag rapists, you know, I mean, they don't want to help you.    Orsika: They want to help themselves.    Marissa: Exactly. And it's not about sexual urge, either. It's about power and control. So, like Orsika said, being aware of your surroundings, knowing who's around you knowing escape routes, you know, having things in place like a longboard or pepper spray or mace, mace, whatever, whatever, knife, whatever makes you feel safe. I used to keep a foghorn in my purse, and a rape whistle. I'm not kidding. I had a friend who bought them for me because I had to cross the street to get home, like cross the highway to get home from work. And so I used to keep that in my bag. And I only ever had to pull the foghorn out once thank goodness   Orsika: Thank goodness it was there. Because if not, then, you know, who knows?    Marissa: Exactly. So, like Orsika said, if you have any other suggestions, or thoughts or questions or comments, feel free to leave them in the comment box. We will be, you know, around all week, monitoring the video and monitoring the advice you guys give and just keep each other safe. You know?    Orsika: Yeah. And if you have any, go ahead, I'm sorry Marissa    Marissa: As you say, it really sucks that this is even like a topic of conversation we have to have,    Orsika: It really does. And I was going to say if you all have any need for just the support, you know, if you've been through sexual assault, or rape or domestic violence that Marissa and I, that's what we do. That's our specialty. That's our gift and our passion. So, you know, aside from this video, if you are a domestic violence survivor or survivor of sexual assaulters, you know, survivor of rape, then please reach out to us whichever one you know, either one of us will be more than happy to just hold your hand and love on you.    Marissa: Absolutely. And I have an idea that I have not run by Orsika yet but    Orsika: It's a perfect idea. I'd love it.   Marissa: Okay, so I think what we're going to do, I'm speaking for you on Saturday, it's going to be probably a very triggering day or an emotional day for a lot of people. So we will have a zoom, maybe going all day, you know, we'll have a Zoom Room available. And if anybody feels nervous or scared or triggered or wants to talk or just you know, needs a pep talk, want some advice for coping skills. Message one of us and we'll send you the link to the zoom video. That will be all day on Saturday. We're here for you. And we're happy to help.    Orsika: I'll take the morning shift, shift. Marissa has the right one because you know I'm old. No kidding.    Marissa: Perfect. I'll do the midnight shift. Perfect. Yeah. Do you have anything going on that you want to talk about anything to promote your new programs.   Orsika: I do, but I'm not going to do that right now just to not take away from I don't want my gosh, these words right who got the shot? We can talk about those next week. I just personally, I just feel like this is the time to really focus on what potentially has been put out there for Saturday. I just think it's so important that I don't want to diminish that I want to be able to give my full support to that and we'll talk about what I have to offer next week.    Marissa: Sounds good and then I'll do the same.    Orsika: Well, thanks, friend.    Marissa: Thank you Have a great rest of your night and if anybody needs anything message one of us okay,    Orsika: Absolutely. Have a good night. All fine.     If you enjoyed this podcast, you have to check out www.MarissaFayeCohen.com/Private-Coaching. Marissa would love to develop a made-for-you healing plan to heal from emotional abuse. She does all the work, and you just show up. Stop feeling stuck, alone, and hurt, and live a free, confident, and peaceful life.  Don’t forget to subscribe to the Healing From Emotional Abuse podcast, and follow us on Facebook at www.facebook.com/marissafcohen, and instagram @Marissa.Faye.Cohen. We’d love to see you there!   narcissist, narcissism, overcoming narcissism, toxic relationship, toxic people, ways to heal, how to heal from emotional abuse, living with a narcissist, good friends, healthy relationship, intimate partner violence, intimate partner relationship, healthy relationships, self love, confidence, self esteem, low self esteem, self esteem activities, confidence exercises, breaking through the silence, what does emotional abuse do to you, what does it mean to be narcissistic, what being with a narcissist does to you, what emotional abuse does to you, learning how to trust myself again, i trust myself, i only trust myself, in myself i trust, toxic relationship, toxic partner, toxic person, toxic people, trust myself, Can you heal from abuse, narcissistic relationships, What do I do after leaving my narcissist, What does a healthy relationship look like, narcissistic women in relationships, narcissistic personality disorder in relationships, covert narcissism in relationships, being in a relationship with a narcissist, empath narcissist relationship, narcissist in love relationships, vulnerable narcissist relationship, narcissist mind games, narcissistic mind games example, mind games narcissists play, mind games of a narcissist, covert narcissist mind games, mind games played by narcissists, mind games of narcissist, narcissist and mind games, sexual harassment, narcissist playing mind games, mind games narcissist, narcissists and relationships, toxic relationship, toxic partner, toxic person, toxic people, Reclaim Your Life, Healing Steps, You’re not alone, I’m a survivor, physical abuse, emotional abuse, verbal abuse, mental abuse, financial abuse, sexual abuse, sexual assault, spiritual abuse, consent, what is consent, national rape day, tik tok trend, trending tiktok, april 24, april 24, 2021, april 24 national day, 

英文歌The Day Went Away教唱（1）如果要问哪一部爱情电影让我最为感动，我会毫不犹豫地推荐《恋恋笔记本》。每一对恋人的邂逅和热恋都是那么美好。但是这部电影中的诺亚和艾莉的爱情故事却是轰轰烈烈。有一种爱情，叫做一见钟情，诺亚第一次在游乐场邂逅艾莉的时候，就告诉自己：这辈子，就这个女孩了。有刚刚开始的不信任，到最后二人的热恋，这一切似乎都是顺理成章的。那个梦幻的夏天，艾莉在在诺亚那学会了自由，得到了欢笑。然而在艾莉父母的阻挠下，相爱的两个人，就被分开在夏天结束的那一刻。随着诺亚的365封信被偷偷藏起，艾莉在7年后终于放弃了等待。就在她要步入教堂的前一天，突然在报纸上看到了诺亚曾许诺给自己建造的白色房子。一切记忆，全部苏醒……这部电影，对于爱情的刻画，是那样纯粹，真实，让人动容。电影中，艾莉与诺亚分开的那一刻，也让人不禁想起那首《The Day You Went Away》。今天我们就来学唱这首歌。《The Day You Went Away 》是挪威组合M2M 演唱的一首歌曲。收录在其首张专辑《 Shades Of Purple 》中，这首歌不但红遍挪威以及整个欧洲，在中国也有很高的知名度，中文版的由台湾歌手王心凌翻唱的《第一次爱的人》。歌词发音技巧：Oh, oh, ooh噢~Well, I wonder我想知道Well I连读Could it be?这是我的幻觉吗Could it连读it t省音When I was dreaming 'bout you baby当我梦见你时When I连读You were dreaming of me你的梦里也有我dreaming of 连读Call me crazy有人说我疯了Call me blind有人说我被爱情蒙蔽了双眼To still be suffering is stupid after all of this time经历了这么多却还执迷不悟suffering is 连读is s省音stupid after all of 连读Did I lose my love to someone better你的那个她比我好吗Did 连读better t美式浊化And does she love you like I do, I do她是否也似我一样爱你And d省音like I连读You know I really really do你知道我愿意为你付出一切know I连读Well hey, so much I need to say嘿，想说的太多不知从何谈起much I 连读 need d省音Been lonely since the day从你离开的那天起The day you went away我一直与孤独为伴went away连读So sad but true多么令人心碎的事实sad d省音 but t省音For me there's only you我的心里只有你there's only 连读Been crying since the day自从我们分离The day you went away我日日以泪洗面went away连读Go on. Yay... Oh...让我继续说下去Go on连读

She wore her insulin pump in the Miss America pageant back in 2014 and Sierra Sandison continues to advocate for people with diabetes today. In this Classic episode from June 2015, you'll hear from Sierra just as her book "Sugar Linings" is coming out. We'll catch up you on what Sierra is doing these days, her advocacy work and her accomplishments outside of the diabetes community. Article from DiabetesMine about Sierra's STEM studies & accomplishments Sierra resigns from Beyond Type 1    Check out Stacey's book: The World's Worst Diabetes Mom! Join the Diabetes Connections Facebook Group! Sign up for our newsletter here ----- Use this link to get one free download and one free month of Audible, available to Diabetes Connections listeners! ----- Get the App and listen to Diabetes Connections wherever you go! Click here for iPhone      Click here for Android   Episode Transcription Stacey Simms  0:00 This episode of Diabetes Connections is brought to you by Inside the Breakthrough a new history of science podcast full of Did you know stuff?   Announcer  0:13 This is Diabetes Connections with Stacey Simms.   Stacey Simms  0:19 Welcome back to the show. I always so glad to have you here. We aim to educate and inspire about diabetes with an emphasis on people who use insulin. I'm your host, Stacey Simms, and this is a classic episode which means for bringing back one of our early interviews, and this is one of the earliest my fourth episode, which originally aired in June of 2015. Sierra Sandison  is a big name in the diabetes community. You might remember her bursting onto our TVs and appearing all over social media after she won Miss Idaho and then walked across the stage and the Miss America pageant, wearing her insulin pump. She coined the hashtag Show me your pump, which continues to get lots of mentions today got millions and millions back then. I remember connecting with Sierra like it was yesterday, I was on vacation with my family in Isle of Palms, which is a beach near Charleston, South Carolina. We live in North Carolina, but believe it or not, the North Carolina beaches are generally further from us than the South Carolina ones. So we basically went to Iowa palms, I want to say almost every summer when the kids are growing up. And if you've read my book, that's where most of the bananas beach stories happen with Benny getting sand in his inset and all that stuff that I talked about. But we were leaving, we were just about to be on our way home. And I had reached out to Sierra, I don't remember who it was over Twitter or email, because she'd already been in the Miss America Pageant that had been the previous year. And I hadn't I didn't have the podcast in 2014. But she was talking about her upcoming book, Sugar Linings . And I thought this is a great chance to get her on the podcast. So I reached out and you know, had just launched I don't even think I was on Apple and the other apps yet I had launched the podcast on my blog for the first three or four weeks. And she reached back and said yes, and I gotta tell you, I was so excited. I remember, like the dork, I am high fiving with my husband, he was excited for me. And I gotta tell you, I'm still just as excited to connect with people and hear their stories. It's just a thrill every time somebody says yes, so I hope that never goes away. Thanks, y'all for letting me do this. I really appreciate it. And I'm gonna catch you up on what Sierra is doing today in just a moment. But first, Diabetes Connections is supported by insight, the breakthrough and new history of science podcast. It was created by SciMar, a group of Canadian researchers dedicated to changing the way we detect, treat and even reverse type two diabetes. The latest episode is all about how unpopular science can be very good science, Galileo probably comes to mind he was not exactly popular in his day. But there are a bunch of really interesting examples that they go through on this episode. Inside the break through you can find it anywhere you listen to podcasts. And remember, this podcast is not intended as medical advice. If you have those kinds of questions, please contact your health care provider. As I'm doing with these classic episodes, I reached back to the person you're talking to, to see if there's an update any information that they would like us to share and zero was kind enough to send me a message. This is five and a half years now after this interview you're about to hear and more than six years after the Miss America pageant, and she said that the main thing that she'd like to get across is that she has been trying to be much more outspoken about our advocacy efforts when it comes to focusing on insulin access and affordability in recent years, and I will link up another podcast She appeared on. She has been very outspoken about this and really trying to get information out there about better ways to advocate for lower prices and better access with insulin. She also says she is at Boise State studying mechanical engineering with minors in biomedical engineering and computer science. She was recognized as the number one student in her junior class. She's working on starting a 3d printing company and she is set to graduate next spring, Sierra, thank you for the update. You are absolutely remarkable. And obviously she's keeping quite busy. Here is Sierra Sandison  from July of 2015. Thanks so much for joining me.   Sierra Sandison  4:25 No problem.   Stacey Simms  4:26 It's great to talk to you. You have a new book, a new blog, we have a lot to talk about. Have you always been in pageants since you were a little girl?   Sierra Sandison    4:36 No, I was actually diabetes who got me in that got me into it. So at 18 I was diagnosed and throughout middle school in high school. I was bullied a lot I didn't really fit in. I didn't know what my identity was. I just like I just wanted to kind of disappear into the crowd. And this diabetes thing was another thing that the bullies could target and call it contagious and say it was my fault because of poor eating. How habits or lack of exercise, which weren't even like a part of my life. So it was ridiculous. But, um, I was just this. Just another thing on top of all the rest of the stuff that was making me different, that the bullies again, could target. So I get diabetes, my parents start pressuring me into training or into getting an insulin pump. And I kept refusing because like an insulin pump is a physical like external, very visible symbol of the fact that I have diabetes and   Stacey Simms  5:28 How old were you when you were diagnosed?   Sierra Sandison    5:31 So I would always like go to the bathroom to give myself shots and try to prick my finger. And, of course, that caused some problems, because I wasn't testing or bolusing when I was supposed to. Sorry, no. So   Stacey Simms  5:45 I interrupted when you were talking about your parents wanted you to get a pump. And I asked about your age only because that's a difficult part of life anyway. I mean, you're transitioning, you're trying figure out what college is going to be like, or what's next. And here your parents think put this thing on you?   Sierra Sandison    5:57 Yeah, exactly. And especially as an adolescent female, that struggles struggled with self-esteem, it was not something I wanted to put on my body. So then, a few months later, and by this time, I was either just about to graduate, or I'd already graduated. I can't remember. But I it was at the beginning of the summer, I heard about Nicole Johnson and the woman who directs the Miss Twin Falls pageant, which is my hometown, came up to me, and explained who she was and that her kids went to my school and she knew I had diabetes. And that she thought, I wouldn't want to know that Miss America. 1999 also had diabetes. And I thought that was so cool. So I go and Google Nicole Johnson. And here she is this beautiful woman. And she I found out she has an insulin pump. And up until that point, I thought that if I got an insulin pump, I would kind of disqualify me from being beautiful, because like, we are fed this definition of beauty, like we look at, we look at women on the front of magazines, and we compare, I compare myself to them. And I'm like, Well, my skin's not that smooth, and my hair isn't flawless like that. And this is not like this doesn't live up to that standard. And this doesn't live up to that standard. And none of them have an insulin pump. So therefore, that must not be beautiful. And now I see Nicole on Miss America, who has an insulin pump, and it's just like, super awesome. So I turned to my best friend that day at school. And while I was googling Nicole Johnson in class and I was like, Brittany, I am going to go to Miss America. And I'm going to wear an insulin pump. And she was like, I don't know what was going on in her head. She just looked at me blankly. But first of all, I didn't know what like how to use makeup or do my hair at all. I was totally, I was awful at everything I ever tried. So it was a struggle to find a talent. I'm not coordinated, like not athletic. Just like I just sucked to everything except for math and science, which didn't really help my popularity much. So I was just like, this dorky kind of nerdy person who always had a book and got made fun of so Britney is looking at me like, okay, like, whatever. But she was just like, what, like, the insulin pump is in like, the little machine your parents keep wanting to get and you're like, refusing to get it. And I was like, Yeah, she didn't. She didn't know where it came from. So then I go home and tell my parents, and they were like being the pageant like, Okay, if it's gonna get you an insulin pump, we'll get you an insert or like, we'll let you do the pageant and pay for this stuff. So Wow. So I compete in my first pageant. And guess what happened?   Stacey Simms  8:37 You won. I lost. So you lost, but that was not what I expected.   Sierra Sandison    8:42 Yeah, so I lost, which was discouraging, but I didn't give up yet. I go to this other little pageant. So I competed Emma's Twin Falls, which is my hometown, but there's also these other little pageants in the state that anyone from the entire state can compete in. So I went to this pageant that was open. That's what it's called when it's like, open to everyone. And there's four other girls were at Miss magic Valley. There's like 20 girls, for Miss Twin Falls, there's like 20 girls. And at that pageant, I won. So I was qualified to go to miss Idaho, and I was so excited. I was like, that was easy. Like, now I just have to win was Idaho, and I will go to Miss America. And so I show up at Miss Idaho, and there's 18 girls and the way Miss Idaho works is that Friday night, everyone competes. And then Saturday night, they read off the top 10 or top 11 and those girls compete again. So this year, they did a top 11 even though there's 18 girls, because I think they announced that they were going to do a top 11 before they know knew how many girls were competing. So Saturday night comes around and they read off the top 11 and I'm standing in the back with the bottom seven and it was so devastating because I at least if I didn't win, I at least wanted to make the top 11 and knock eliminated right away. So I got really sad and Brittany was like, Okay, how about this? How about you were your insulin pump wall like solving calculus problems, and inspire little kids that way? No, Brittany, I'm gonna wear my insulin pump on stage. But at this point, I kind of was giving up on the whole Miss America idea, which kind of made me like sad, but I realized that everyone in the audience would hopefully have I think everyone, everyone in general has an insecurity. Like I had my insulin pump and insecurity that makes them different that they sometimes want to hide and I really wanted to encourage them to not only like not hide it and tolerate it, but also to love it and celebrate it because it makes them unique.   Stacey Simms  10:46 So how many Miss Idaho pageants did you enter before the one we all saw?   Sierra Sandison    10:51 Yeah, so Okay, so I go home, and I compete for missed one falls. And this time, there's like, a gazillion girls, but I win it. And that was a little encouraging, because I just won like one of the hardest pageants in the state. So I, that's a, it's a whole, that pageant takes place, like a week after Miss Idaho. So I had an entire year until the next beside Whoa, I worked really hard, like, really, really hard. And I won't go into detail. But that's what made the difference between year one and year two, and I get to it,   Stacey Simms  11:20 I understand you don't want to do it. What are your work on? Is it just your is it just getting in great physical shape? Is it more to it?   Sierra Sandison    11:26 So that's part of it. But um, mostly it's really finding yourself and knowing what you believe. So when you go into interview, any question that's thrown at you, because you know yourself so well, like, you can answer it. And so I went to Okay, let's see, in December, Miss Miss Idaho, who was who won when I didn't make the top 11 challenged all of the local title holders to a new year's resolution. And I was about to go backpack through Europe for five months alone, which is a self discovery journey in itself. But I everyone was doing like, I'm going to work out more, and I'm going to eat less candy or something. And I was like, I'm not going to give up carbs. Exercising in Italy, like are you crazy. So I knew that we couldn't be fitness based. So I decided to read one book a month, which I've actually kept up to this day. And it's just taught me so much. But and then of course, we have the Europe thing. And like traveling in Europe alone for a long time. Just to traveling just teaches you a lot. So that's what I changed. So I get back to miss Idaho. And I really, I bow so I decided to wear my pump on stage. This is the first time I'll ever wear on stage because I hadn't more I will only wanted to work at Miss America where I could explain my story on TV into the media stations beforehand. And everyone would understand what the insulin pump was as well as my message. So I'm beside Whoa, there's a small audience. There's no type one diabetics watching. And I can't go out on stage and be like, Hey, everyone, like this is my insulin pump. And my message is for you to love the things that make you different. Okay, bye. Let's get on the show like that. So I get to miss Idaho in my pump, I put my pump on my pants. In that day, it just looked so much bigger than normal is like when I got a zit on my forehead and it looks like I'm so I'm trying to talk myself into wearing the pump and I'm, like freaking out. And finally I calmed down and I'm like, no one's gonna notice no one's gonna notice. So   Stacey Simms  13:27 why did you Why did you wear it on stage? And what was it like, just before you walked out? If that wasn't the plan, what happened that you said, All right, I got to do it.   Sierra Sandison    13:35 Um, so I didn't think I was ever going to go to Miss America because of the not making top 11 thing so but I really I got into pageants to where my pump on stage. And I wasn't going to give that up. Even though it wasn't the Miss America stage in front of millions of people on national television. I still wanted to know that I had the courage to do it. Um, so I walked out of the dressing room. And this little girl's staring at me and I met this in this like really self-conscious state like, no one look at my insulin pump, please. And the first thing she blurts out is like, hey, what is that she points to my insulin pump. And my heart sinks and I get really angry at the same time when I go back to the dressing room to kind of rip off the pump. And she's and she follows me and she explains that she's diabetic as well. And we get into the conversation about diabetes. And I end up asking her What kind of insulin pump she wears. And it ended up that she didn't have an insulin pump because she was really scared of what her friends would say. So at this point, I was like, I don't care what the judges think. I don't care what the audience thinks I'm gonna go where my insulin pump for this little girl and so that weekend I ended up winning and her mom came up to me and are her McCall is a little girl and her mom came up to me and Nicole was like, I'm getting an insulin pump. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. And then her mom after McCall ran off to tell some other friends how excited she was. Her mom came up to me crying because she's so excited that like she never thought her daughter would get an insulin pump agree to it. let alone be jumping up and down excited and confident about it. So that was probably the best. And then, of course, from there, I went to Miss America and made tough teen and yeah, yeah, there's   Stacey Simms  15:10 a lot more to talk about. Yeah, I have to ask you, though, it's just so inspiring to hear. But when you walked on stage, and you've been in pageants for a couple of years, harder to wear the pump, or harder to wear that bikini, because Wow, did you look gorgeous? Oh, my gosh, that was so hard.   Sierra Sandison    15:28 I actually have I so I, I work out a lot. And I like, I do CrossFit all the time. And I competed not now Geez, not now. But I competed in, like, power competitive powerlifting, or I guess that's redundant powerlifting competitions. So I was used to like being in like one piece, or just a sports bra and shorts. So that's like being in the bikini, scary for a lot of people. But it really wasn't that big of a deal for me until I put the pump on. So when did you realize that the pump   Stacey Simms  15:59 and the pageant was becoming an actual movement, you know, that people were responding so strong.   Sierra Sandison    16:06 Um, so I posted the picture online. And I kind of, I don't know, if some girl a lot of girls tried to start social media campaigns for their platform, and they just kind of flop because no one's really interested in them, if you know what I mean. So I was really scared that no one would like, like my message or because some people were telling me like, like fighting the beauty standards is stupid. And it's a stupid cause. But it's something I'm really passionate about. Because when I see someone like loving who they are, even though they don't look like a Victoria's Secret Angel, it really like encourages me to love myself. And so I really wanted to encourage that. But I also didn't think that anyone would take the time to take a selfie with their insulin pump. I don't think I would, I don't know. I just like, so I posted it. And then I went on with my day. And I got back to my phone. And it had like 1000s of likes, and 1000s of shares. And I went on Instagram, and people had been posting like crazy. And it was like it was incredible. So I think that like the same day or maybe the next day, I realized it was going crazy. It was awesome.   Stacey Simms  17:15 Do you have any numbers? Or do you know how the hashtag Show me your pump? How far or wide that went? I mean, I know you were on the Today Show. And good morning, American NPR picked it up?   Sierra Sandison    17:24 Yeah, I think so we, we did the math on the hits. And like number of viewers on all the TV shows and all the articles that were written. And we think my story reached about like five to 7 million people. And then as regard in regards to how many pictures were posted, you can't count those on Twitter, or Facebook. But on Instagram, there's almost 6000 today.   Stacey Simms  17:50 So the social media campaign is going on in the time between Miss Idaho leading up to Miss America. Was it difficult to balance getting ready for the pageant in September of last year, when you were also being asked to be a guest on national shows and little kids are coming up to you? What was that like?   Sierra Sandison    18:06 That was insanity. So I was actually the last girl. And out of all 50 states, I was the very last person crowned. So I had only eight weeks to get ready for Miss America, which is an insanely short amount of time. So I was super stressed. I was up like, from 8am to like, probably 1am. And it was just it was insane. And then you add all the interviews on top of it. And it was so overwhelming. But in the end, I think it actually helped because I was practicing interviews part of Miss America. And obviously, when I got to Miss America, the judges already knew about Show me your pump. And it was a big topic of conversation in the interview. And I had talked about it so much that I didn't have to stumble over my words, I knew what I wanted to say, etc. So having all those interviews with the media, which there could, there was like five, there could have been like five to 10 a day. Having all those interviews actually helped me prepare a little more even though it was a little hectic.   Stacey Simms  19:06 Okay, so you won the People's Choice Award in the Miss America Pageant. How do you find that out? Is that in a live on stage thing? Yes. So   Sierra Sandison    19:12 I just find it out when like live TV, I find it out as soon as you guys in the audience and across the nation do so that was what was that like it was I think I knew that I kind of had a chance. And in the past, I've tried to predict like the Miss America winters at home. And the way you predict the People's Choice person is by looking at the YouTube views and I was not winning in YouTube views on the People's Choice videos. So I was kind of stressing about that. And I really just I really wanted to wear my insulin pump on stage in my swimsuit. And that's all I wanted to do. I just was like make it to the top of team and then you can eliminate me Please give me People's Choice, please. And at the last minute I think Miss New Mexico had just like a rush of votes and my heart just like   Sierra Sandison    19:59 it's New Mexico.   Sierra Sandison    20:01 Yeah, my roommate and like one of my best friends. But I was like, No, like, this can't happen. So when they called my name, and I don't know, I'm used to like losing things in high school like being the last one picked for dodgeball team making, not making like even the JV team for basketball. So I was like, it's not gonna be me like, I'm used to this. And then he said, and you're the winner is Miss Idaho. And that's all after that moment. That's all I remember. Everything else is a blur. I think I fell down to the ground. And like, I don't even remember, his   Stacey Simms  20:33 pictures are pretty amazing. It's a wonderful reaction. I love it.   Sierra Sandison    20:36 So So what happened for you when you did go on stage? Oh, my gosh, that was the most amazing feeling because I know like, it just seems I don't know how to explain the stage like especially the same was with Dr. Oz, like the Dr. Oz studio was so like, exactly like it was on TV exactly like it is on TV in the Miss America stage is exactly what it is on TV. Except I can also see like, the tent, like the audience of 10,000 in this gigantic, gigantic room that's like a football stadium. So it was it was thrilling. And I just couldn't believe that I finally, like I reached my goal. And it was coming true right there. And I don't know, it was awesome. Fabulous.   Stacey Simms  21:19 It's really is a remarkable story. I'm so glad to share you what is next for you, you have a new book out, you have a new blog you're launching, tell us what this is.   Sierra Sandison    21:28 Yes, I'm so excited. So I've had this idea for a while. And like, finally, my friend was like, do it. And I don't know, all authors are a little self conscious about getting your ideas out there, because who's gonna read it, like, Who cares what I have to say, so my best like one of my, I call her my diet bestie one of my diet besties Hadley, George was just like, you need to write it. So I sat down in Cincinnati, probably in February and started writing. And I've been, like, just rapidly writing way since then. But it's called Sugar Linings , finding the bright side of type 1 diabetes. And for me, diabetes has been a huge blessing, obviously, because of Miss America and all the opportunities it's brought me but I there's also things I also thought that before I really succeeded in pageants. So the other things I talked about, besides my own personal story are Sugar Linings  that apply to everyone's life, not just inside the house. So I talked about how diabetes makes us more stronger and resilient. How it can bring us friends. So like Hadley, Hadley is like one of my best friends and I would not go back in time and get rid of diabetes, if it meant losing her friendship, and then how it can give us a passion. So lots of people get diabetes and then become very involved in fall in love with JDRF, or whatever diabetes organization they decide to volunteer with. And the same is true for a lot of other hardships, I think we face in life, whatever thing you go volunteer for, usually people have like a very personal story of why for why they got involved, and why they became passionate about it. So and I think being passionate about something. And making a difference is a really important, like part of all of our lives, like when I go to schools, a lot diabetes, and at the end, I always close up with whatever hard thing you're going through, like use it to make yourself stronger, and also make a difference. And I asked all the kids like who wants to make a difference before they die, and everyone's hands flies up. And it's just like, so encouraging to know that, like most humans just have this natural desire to make a difference. And diabetes gave that to me, and I hope it can give it to a lot of people. But if someone for example, isn't isn't like passionate specifically about diabetes, even though they have it, the last chapter in my book is about how it does increase our ability to show compassion, empathy, so we know what it's like to get misinformed and hurtful comments and just deal with this disease and the stress that goes along with it all day every day.   Stacey Simms  23:54 The book is called Sugar Linings . And the blog is also Sugar Linings . But the blog is a chance for other people to tell their stories.   Sierra Sandison    24:02 Yeah. So I'll also continue telling, like continue updating people through that blog on what I'm doing and what's going on in my life. And maybe if I discover a new sugar lining, I'll talk about it. But I really wanted to give other people the chance to tell me about how it's made them stronger about their like diversity about how diabetes gave them a passion to serve the diabetes community or maybe a situation where their diabetes experience gave them empathy for help them be empathetic towards someone else. Or if they have some sugar lining that is maybe unique to them or maybe true for everyone that I just haven't thought about. I didn't mention my book, but that they want to let the diabetes community know. So we can add another sugar lining to our list.   Stacey Simms  24:51 I have a couple of questions that I was asked to ask you. If I may, when people found out I was talking with you. Rebecca would like to know how you deal with the down days when having diabetes on board just feels like it's it's too much to handle.   Sierra Sandison    25:08 Yeah, so there's two things. One, I think the hardest week for me was actually that time where I was visiting Hadley in Cincinnati, and she encouraged me to start writing this book. I think my pump like malfunction, so I was like, Hi. And then when I got like, they got my new pump to me super quick, which they're, they're awesome about that. So they got into come to me, but I'd been high for a little while. And then I got my new pump on, and my insulin had expired, because it had been in like the heat. So then I was high for another four days before I figured that out. And I was just like, Oh, it was miserable. And I had like five schools every day that had to go to the speedway. And at the same time, I was kind of going through this identity crisis, where people tell us over and over again, like, diabetes isn't who you are, it's not part of your identity, like you're so much more than your disease. And here I am, like, I am the diabetic beauty queen like that is my identity to most people. And I was kind of feeling guilty, like, should diabetes, not be my life, like, I'm so involved? Should I, like get involved with something else and not do diabetes? Does that make sense at all? Oh, absolutely.   Stacey Simms  26:19 I think it's difficult for any of us to find a balance.   Sierra Sandison    26:21 Yeah, I was like, Oh, I felt just felt like it was overwhelming my identity. And Hadley has an organization called type one teens that she started. And she like, she came into my room because I was crying. And I kind of opened up to her about it. And I felt so so guilty about feeling that way, like feeling like, I shouldn't be serving the diabetes community. And she's like, Oh, my gosh, I totally know how you feel. And she kind of made me feel like, it was just a natural feeling. And she's always the person usually, she's always the person I go to when I'm having just like the down days. So first of all, I use my diversity to get over him and or to get through the down days. And then second of all, something that's really inspirational to me is when I meet people who have lived with diabetes for like, 30 or 40 years, and like I'm, and that wasn't in 2015, like, they didn't have a Dexcom they didn't have like an awesome touchscreen insulin pump from Tandem. They had, like, the like, we hear horror stories about what like the diabetes products they use. So like if they can do that with those. With those, I don't know what to call them. The   Stacey Simms  27:30 The, the bad old days of diabetes, right? I mean, the old tools like boiling needles, that kind of stuff.   Sierra Sandison    27:35 Yeah, do 40 years, and most of those years have the old diabetes tools, and they have way less resources and dealt with a lot more misdiagnosis and misdiagnosis sees, is that the word? And we do today like I can do today. I'm curious   Stacey Simms  27:54 with what you just said, Do you have an obligation to always show your pump? I mean, I'm curious, you know, you're the show me your pump lady? What if you don't feel like showing your pump? Does that come into your mind?   Sierra Sandison    28:04 So it is totally okay, if anyone does not want to show their pump. And I had to come to terms with that this year, because I get like, I'll post a picture where my insulin pump is like tucked in my speakeasy and I'm wearing a dress. It's totally not visible. And some mom will comment and be like, Where's your pump? Like? My Are you hiding your pump? Like I don't want my daughter to see this. And I'm like, they don't say that word for word. They'll say where you're pumping, where's your pump, but that's like, how I feel when they say that. And it was really hard for me for a long time. Because like I'm a human being I don't want I don't want diabetes to be the forefront. Like I said, like I struggle with that identity thing like is diabetes like, like a whole, like 75% of my identity now, and I don't want it at the forefront or like in front of everyone all the time. And at the same time. I'm not ashamed of it. But I just don't want it to be the topic of discussion constantly. And Kerri Sparling, who's the blogger in charge of six and tomie.com. just posted she went to like a red carpet event with her husband. And she posted a blog about how she the dress she got just like she there's no way to make it look great with an insulin pump. So she decided to take off her insulin pump and do shots for a couple days. And like, that's okay. And I I commented. And I was like this, like means so much to me. Like, I feel like I'm not allowed to hide my pump. And it's not that I'm hiding it. It's just that I'm not. I don't know, I'm not like purposely hiding it. I just like don't want it front and center sometimes. And I met her this last weekend at a conference we were supposed to speaking at. And she was like that I'm just like, so that comment just warmed my heart and I'm like, you just need to know that it's totally a natural feeling to not want to show your diabetes all the time and like I don't care what your fans say. Like if you need to hide your pump once in a while. Like you should feel okay to do that. So with that, I mean you're you know, show me your pump is wonderful and empowering but it doesn't mean you have to wear it on your head. Yeah.   Stacey Simms  30:00 Michelle asked me to ask you, if you have advice for parents who are struggling to give their kids with diabetes independence.   Sierra Sandison    30:07 Hmm, that is so hard. That's like, I always talked about this at conferences, and I haven't, there's no perfect answer to it. But I do think a balance is really important. Between like, keeping your kids safe, and making sure you're empowering them and giving them independence at the same time. And I think with so I didn't get diabetes till I was 18. So I was immediately independent, and that was fine. But in everything else in life, my parents were really, really strict. Up until the point I was 13. Like, the most insanely strict parents you'll ever meet, and then back by, like, at 13, they decided to like start. So and this is all they're like, they had this all planned out in advance, at 13. When each of me and my siblings, my siblings, and I turned 13. They started like, slowly, carefully, like making letting us be more and more independent, and at the same time, instilling like adjectives into us, like, you're so responsible, you're so intelligent, you are so like, independent, we're so proud of you. And even when those things weren't true, like those statements were definitely not true throughout most of my high school, but they kept instilling them in me. And eventually I was like, Yeah, like, I am responsible, like, that is my identity. I'm, I'm smart, and I'm responsible. And I'm not going to make this bad decision   Stacey Simms  31:23 theory this, your book is launching, this is a very busy time for you. What are you most excited about?   Sierra Sandison    31:28 Oh, my gosh, I am excited, huh?   Sierra Sandison    31:32 I Well, I'm   Sierra Sandison    31:33 most excited, I think so a lot of girls, when they hand down their crown, it's a really bittersweet time, because they've been so busy all year, and they're exhausted. So now they're gonna stop. But at the same time, they kind of don't want to stop. And for me, I've like figured out the balance. So I'm not exhausted, and I'm having a blast. And there have been like, back in like, January and December in November, I was exhausted. And I was like, holy cow, I need, I cannot do this. So I kind of like learned how to say no to things so I could survive. And now I'm at this perfect balance where I'm not too busy. And I'm really enjoying it. But if I was anyone else, I would have to stop on June 20. And because of Show me your pumping because of the awesome diabetes community I've been, I've been I have like events booked out and conferences to go to, until like December right now, which is super exciting. Because I don't have to stop like being decided, oh, I'm not allowed to wear the crown. I get to do everything else that I love. And I'm not really I'm kind of like a not a girly girl. So I don't care about the crowd anyways, but people still can try it on. So   Stacey Simms  32:34 literally, you can bring it with you. But you can't put it on.   Sierra Sandison    32:37 Yes,   Stacey Simms  32:37 exactly. All right, the next interview is going to be all of these pageant rules, because I didn't know any of this stuff. Yeah, that's terrific. So you can so so you know little girls or even the girls like we could put it on and take a picture with you. Yeah, that's great. That's great. Sarah Sandison , thank you so much for talking with me today. It's been so much fun and the books gonna be a big success. I hope we talk again soon.   Announcer  33:04 You're listening to Diabetes Connections with Stacey Simms.   Stacey Simms  33:10 More info on Sierra and what she's doing now and then taking a look back at her story. You can find all of that at the episode homepage at Diabetes connections.com. I mentioned towards the beginning of the show that she's focusing a lot on insulin affordability and access. And she stepped down a while ago from her position at beyond type one, she was in a kind of a volunteer leadership position there and stepped down over this issue. How you might have seen that on social media A while back if you didn't, I will link up again, the more information on the story behind that and so much of what she's doing now, really just a remarkable person. And of course, I'll link up the information on her book Sugar Linings . Alright, I am working on a bonus episode that might come out in the next couple of days. I have an episode about mutual aid diabetes, this is a new group that has sprung up recently trying to kind of organize and get better information out to the community about a problem that again, insulin affordability and access but it's something that many of us are already doing in our local communities, right getting insulin to people who need it at least we do that in in Charlotte, I mean, I've hopped in my car several times in the last couple of months and careered you know insulin here there and supplies and things like that. And I bet you have done that too. Or at least connected on social media or amplified some mutual aid diabetes is trying to be more organized about that. And our next regular episode is all about low blood sugar. I am talking to two powerhouses of the diabetes community ginger Vieira and Mike Lawson and we will be talking to them about their new children's book but really about low blood sugar what it feels like what people without diabetes who care about people with diabetes should keep in mind all that good stuff. Question for you before I let you go too many episodes. What do you think? Right? We're at two episodes a week now with these classic episodes started that back in February and throwing Get a bonus episode and my overwhelming you. You don't have to listen to every episode. I hope you don't feel guilty if you don't, but I'd love to get your opinion. What do you think here? Is this the right balance? Should I cut back? Maybe go to one episode every two weeks space it out a little bit more? Let me know I'll put it in the Facebook group as well as a question for you. Thanks as always to my editor John Bukenas at Audio Editing Solutions. Thank you so much for listening. I will see you back here in just a couple of days until then. Be kind to yourself.   Benny    35:34 Diabetes Connections is a production of Stacey Simms Media. All rights reserved. All wrongs avenged  

I had the opportunity to speak with Kat Kim recently... we had a blast! Be sure to listen in to hear all about her spiritual journey! From her about page: I serve the Spiritual Nonconformist, the misfit, the misunderstood.   In other words, the changemaker. For over ten years I've applied what I know about behavioral change and spiritual transformation to help my clients create radical, nonconformist change in their lives. My approach is based on Hermetic Philosophy, New Thought teachings, and the wisdom passed down through the ages by Buddha, Jesus Christ, and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. (And Chomsky. Can't forget Chomsky.) connect with Kat over at https://www.katkim.com/ Insta: @katkimofficial FB: @MissKatKim Brandon Handley 0:00 54321 Hey there spiritual dope. Brandon Handley, your hosts here with cat cam and I'm gonna flip it for the new year. Normally I introduced but, you know, cat cam once you go ahead and give the audience a little feel for what you're all about. Kat Kim 0:18 Okay? Hello, everyone. I am a former crack addict and drug dealer facing three years in state prison turned a spiritual teacher leadership coach, I founded a school called the School of divine confidence. I am the person that will help you overcome your fears, blocks and shame. So you can step into that best version of yourself where you can truly make a difference. Brandon Handley 0:43 I mean, you opened right up with it. I love that. So we'll definitely get into it. So the way I like to start this off with to say like, you know, universe power, creative source, all that stuff speaks through us right and and our message is received to somebody out there in the audience today, it can only come through this medium. What is your message today? Kat Kim 1:03 My message today is that each and every one of us has this indescribable, of limitless power that we have access to. And most of us give up, give that power away. Most of us give that power away to the outside world of circumstances and physical things and elections and all the madness. You know, pandemics out there. But I have defined divine confidence to be an having an unshakable faith and knowing who you are, and what you're here to do, regardless of what's going on in the world outside of you. And I really, truly believe that we all have access to that divine confidence. Brandon Handley 1:48 100% Amen. Amen. I love I love to like the clear delineation of you have access to it. Right? Everybody's got access to it. It is fairly innate. Right? But it's like, you still it's you just don't know it until you access it. Right? Like, holy shit. This has been here the whole time. Yeah. And I love that you've got this Divinity School. Like I said, we have a lot in common. I too have a course on divinity. Right? Like, it's just it's straight up just called the divine framework. But why don't you give me a little bit of what your divinity school teaches? You know, kind of how you landed on it, that kind of thing. Yeah, Kat Kim 2:29 I Well, can I start with where I began? Unknown Speaker 2:33 This would you man. Kat Kim 2:36 Thank you. There's a backstory to this. When I was six years old, my mother began feeding me diet pills. And this was kind of like the lifelong like the beginning of a lifelong struggle of low self confidence, horrible body image, no self worth, I was barely tall enough one day to, you know, put my hands on the kitchen counter. And I remember one day looking up at her. And she was cutting something at the kitchen, on the board on the cutting board. And I asked her, What are you doing? And she said, Well, these are diet pills. And these are for adults. And since you're only a child, you only need to eat half of them. So she she continued to cut them. And I did not question her. I did not think there was something wrong with it. I just fully accepted in that moment that there was something wrong with me and my body and that I needed something outside of me in order to be okay. So I began to feel absolutely ugly, fat, unwanted and unworthy. All by the time I was in second grade, really. And my also grew up in a very emotionally and physically abusive environment. And I started rebelling at a really young age, I started doing started drinking and smoking at 13 doing hardcore drugs at 16. And by the time I was 18, I was dealing cocaine. And I was transporting it from Washington State to California. on the plane, this is pre 911 it was really easy to do this and not that I'm giving you guys ways to do it. But the way I did it was I just snuck the drugs inside of maxi pads. So it'll be weird if Brandon Handley 4:18 you did that. I pulled it off. But I mean, listen with these days and ages. I'd be like I identify as and and you know who's gonna try and you know, you can't you can't fight that. Yeah, yeah. Kat Kim 4:30 So, one day I got caught. I was arrested. I was handcuffed in Oakland, California, of all places. Oakland at that time was notorious for its high rates of homicides and violent crimes. Now, I was right there in the middle of that. And I was absolutely fearless. But it wasn't the type of fearlessness that comes from courage. The root word of courage is courage, which is the heart. It didn't come from there. It came from a place of having absolutely no reason. Guard from my life, my future my health, my body, I didn't care. I didn't give a damn what happened to me I was on the fast track of self destruction, I had no confidence, no self worth. And so while I was in jail, I was like, I want to network while I'm here, I'm in Oakland, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, you know, make some deals while I can. So Brandon Handley 5:19 that's like the central hub, right? All the people, you finally made it when you get to Oakland, right? You're like, Hey, you know, I'm here, I made it. Home spa. Kat Kim 5:32 Never thought of it that way. When it's so true. I was like, I'm here in Oakland, I'm gonna make I'm gonna make the most of it as I can. So even while I was there, facing three years in state prison, I was like, I'm just going to try to make some drug deals while I'm here while I was here. While I was there. I pled guilty. During that time, I went to the part of my whole thing they give you know, they made me go to rehab for two years. Long story short, I cleaned up the drugs. But this feeling of not being good enough, having no self worth, no self value, stayed with me. It didn't go anywhere. It was part of who I was. And so I started getting involved in really toxic relationships with men that were emotionally abusive. This entire time. Brandon, I hated the way I looked, I walked around like I was the meanest, nastiest bitch alive. And of course, because I believe that to be true about myself, I attracted everything into my life that validated those beliefs. And it really wasn't until many years after getting out of jail cleaning up that I was walking down my apartment hallway one day, at that time, I was very, very depressed could barely even move. I remember one day I was trying to like lift my body off of the couch. And I couldn't because it was like this dark energy pushing me down. Somehow, that particular day, I managed to get up, I was going somewhere I don't even know where. And I was walking down my apartment hallway to my elevator. And there's this mirror that hangs on the wall, top to like ceiling to floor, huge mirror. And walking down, I look up and I caught a glimpse of somebody standing in the hallway. And I see her in the mirror. And she's just kind of really uncapped, and she's wearing big baggy clothes, Her face is really swollen and puffy. And even while I was wallowing in my own toxicity at that time, I was depressed and, you know, essentially just hating life. I remember just looking at her and thinking, Oh, my God, at least I'm not that bad. And there was something about her, it wasn't even just how she looked, it was this deep, dark energy that was coming from her that made me feel like my goodness, at least I haven't gotten that far. And it hit me like a ton of bricks, there was nobody else in that hallway. There was nobody there. It was me, I had become so disconnected with who I wanted to be as a woman who I was being called to be and who I was being that I didn't even recognize myself when I saw myself in the mirror. And finally, that was my wake up call. And this is you know, sounds overly dramatic. But this is literally how it happened. I walked into the elevator. And now you know, I'm facing that wall with the mirror so I can see myself in the mirror. And the elevator doors are closing in on me like this. And I said, This is the moment that I'm going to do whatever it takes to become the person that I want it to be. Brandon Handley 8:25 No, I love that. Right? Like, even even if, even if, like you know, it sounds dramatic. That's your moment that you chose. Right? That was your, your Pinnacle point, right? I think that. I think that when you recognize that too, as you as you're going through it, you're like, no, this is my shit. And this is what I'm gonna do. And here's how I'm gonna do it. I don't know how it's gonna work out. I just know that I'm stepping into it, and I don't fuck it. That's it. Right. I'm done. I'm a high school dropout left that part out. And then the other part was, was when you went in. It's not San Quentin, but I just wanna say San Quentin. Brooklyn, what do you want to Oakland? Was that from the bus ride after after? When you turn yourself in? Or was that something else? Did you know about that story? Oh, man. I poked around. I did. Kat Kim 9:24 Yeah, that was that. Was that that? Was that? That one moment? Yeah. Brandon Handley 9:29 Okay, so so i think i think that's really key here. Because you are at like, this kind of desperate moment. But you're also still very humane. Right? Like, so. For those of you that don't know, you know, she got a bus driver and shovel for sniffing some coke on the side of the side of the road. Cops knock on their they bust the cop who's a black guy. She's Asian. And like, even in that time, you're like, you're like, Hey, I'm Asian. These biases should still look a mess out there. And you go in and you're like, hey, by the way, this is my drugs. He had nothing to do with it. So you you kept him from getting into jail and you put yourself in a position and my guess is like, again, you're kind of like, you're juxtapose them between being this badass and being like, Well, I'm not gonna let that guy go and for me, Kat Kim 10:14 yeah, it was it was a trip. So this was Yep. I got off the plane when one day. I had my drugs in tow. Pete feathers? Brandon Handley 10:26 How much were you? How much were you? carting around? Just out of curiosity? Kat Kim 10:29 Oh, um, I don't even remember. But I remember at one point, I had a kilo, which is Brandon Handley 10:35 a lot more than a little bit. Yeah, Kat Kim 10:36 yeah. Oh, yeah. For sure. I didn't get caught with that kilos, though. That was, Brandon Handley 10:42 that would have been longer than three. Yeah. Kat Kim 10:44 It was longer. But that one day, I got off the airplane. got onto the shuttle bus. And you know, what, uh, what's the I always fuck these words up? Like, these American idioms for birds of a feather flock together? Right? That's, that's it? Okay. Sure. Somehow, I ended up being the last person being dropped off. I'm sitting in the front with the driver. We somehow started. I mean, who starts talking about drugs? Well to druggies. They get together Brandon Handley 11:14 in conversation. Kat Kim 11:14 Yeah, somehow it just came up and and I was like, Oh, yeah, I have some cocaine. He was like, Oh, really. So he pulls over the the shuttle bus into the Oakland Hills. And I proceed to pull some cocaine out. He puts it into a piece of paper. He doesn't really weird. I've never seen anyone smoke. Or, you know, sniff cocaine this way. It was just bizarre. Anyway, whatever, you know, you do you. So he, he pulls it out, he does it. And then right at that moment, there's a flashlight that's beaming in in the window. And it was two cops. Because very strange. There's a random bus in the Hollywood Hills just parked there. And he, he literally got red caught red handed, it was in his hands, and he threw it on the floor. The cops pulled him out. And they arrested him. They told me to sit on, you know, outside on this rock. And I'm sitting there and I'm watching this whole thing unfold. And I'm like, Oh, my God, like, I'm gonna get away with this. And then what I did was I I'm gonna I better, I better walk, you know, so I pulled the rest of the cocaine that I had in my purse. And I saw it behind me in a rock behind the rock. I was like, I'm not gonna get caught with this. And as I'm watching this whole thing, unfold, all of a sudden, I get this, this voice in my head, and then it tells me the truth will set you free. And I'm like, the fuck are you? Seriously? You're gonna you whoever you are. You're gonna cut off all the time. Unknown Speaker 12:46 Right? Yes, exactly. Now's not the time. Kat Kim 12:50 And I didn't believe in God or spirit. I wasn't even nothing. I wasn't spiritual. At that time. I haven't gone I Brandon Handley 12:57 we I Kat Kim 12:59 wasn't high. Okay. Yeah, I was just a girl sitting there getting free, because all of a sudden, it came. And I just knew in that moment, it was God. But I would never admit that and not even tell the story for years and years and years and years. Because I didn't believe in God, it would be weird for me to say God came and told me this. But at that time, I was just I just knew that God said, The truth will set you free. And I was like, fuck. So I called the two cops over and I told them, Hey, you got to let this guy go. Those drugs are mine. They were flabbergasted. They were like, What are you talking about? And I was like, no, they're really mine. And, and I mean, the guy was already handcuffed and booked and put in the car. And they didn't believe me. And so I went back into the behind the rock. I was like, Look, this stuff is mine. And then I was like, and there's more in my luggage beside the car. And so there were they just were like, we you know, because there was one of the cops was like, You know what, I would let you go. But now there's another cop with me. I can't even we have to take you in. And that's when I had all these like, I realized that kind of the inequity of the whole situation here I was Asian girl and there was, you know, a brown man, I'm like, he would have been fucked up and screwed. And I wasn't being a martyr or anything like that. But I just knew that this was my journey. It was for me, all of that came to me in that moment that this is my journey. This was for me. It was not for him. And then I had to take ownership of this. So they arrested me and then they read me my Miranda rights, which is a whole nother thing. You you hear people you hear like the cool cop catching the bad guy on TV and movies and you hear the Miranda you know, the rights being read all the time. You know, you have the right to remain silent and whatever. But to hear it being read to us just bizarre. That was the most bizarre part. Brandon Handley 15:00 I don't want to say that I've heard it before, but I've heard it before. It's very surreal. Right? It's very Unknown Speaker 15:05 surreal Unknown Speaker 15:07 for me, thank you. So Kat Kim 15:09 it was so weird. And they proceeded to book me and take me into, into sanguine. Yeah, yeah, yes. Yeah. So that's my, that's my story there. And the funny thing of all that Brendon is like, I just, I wasn't scared. In the cop car. I just knew that this was a journey made for me. And I wasn't afraid of what was what was yet to come. Brandon Handley 15:37 I mean, that's cool, right? It's, it's cool in the sense that, you know, you just you put yourself out there, right? You were probably already still feeling this kind of Fuck it. I'm hard as hell does, you know, I'm Cat Cat Cat can pitch. Right? Right. And you're like, you're like, you know, you're on in and you're still like, you know, drug dealers, drug dealers, and you're, you're having your conversations, you're still trying to network while you're in there. Just because I mean, that's just that's just the nature of that space, right, the space that you were in. So what I'm curious about those I said, you go on for two years of rehab. That's a long time for rehab. But what's interesting is, to me is how you came out of it with a poor self image. Because in my mind, you know, if you if you go through two years of kind of like a rehab program, they should have this kind of building you back up as part of the program. And it doesn't sound like that was there sounded like the only thing that they were there to do is to make sure that you don't do drugs again. Kat Kim 16:43 Yeah, yeah. Well, oh, there's so many ways I could talk about this thing that you're bringing up right now. Firstly, do I want to share this part of the story, okay. So I will might as well, as part of the program, you're supposed to go to Narcotics Anonymous, and you know, you're supposed to get signed off and all that. And I went to my first meeting, I went to two of them. And, again, I just had this sense of knowing like, this is not for me. And I do not advise anyone to do this. I'm not sharing this so that people will follow this. But I just, I just knew it wasn't for me. So I didn't go and I ended up forging the signatures. So I didn't do that portion of it. And rehab was good for me because I had to not do drugs because I didn't do pee tests every week. So I I cleaned up the drugs. But that feeling of not being good enough unworthy, unwanted, ugly, that that doesn't go away, just because you go to rehab, as we all know, I mean, if that if it were that easy, then we wouldn't have these issues with people in their in their addictions to whether it's drugs or alcohol or shopping, whatever that is, the sense of not being good enough and unworthy. I took that on at a really young age. That was handed down to me from my parents, generational trauma, that type of thing. And that that is what stuck with me all through these years and into my adult life. Brandon Handley 18:17 Yeah, you mentioned that as part of your culture too. Right. Like just kind of the same in your own culture. Right. Crane? Is that right? Kat Kim 18:25 Yeah, yeah. So Brandon Handley 18:26 just being you know, from generation to generation, there's a you know, just a different sense of being and kind of what you have to live up to, in your heritage versus American slacker ism. Unknown Speaker 18:36 Right? Brandon Handley 18:38 Call it what it is, you know, y'all know about slacker ism. But um, so you're still fighting like that kind of image. And then, you know, we're working our way up to the Divinity School. But I know that there's a couple other pieces in between this wants to go ahead and share kind of what happens after rehab, and you're still fighting with your image. Kat Kim 18:57 Yeah, so it's that, you know, I'm getting involved in really toxic relationships with people. There's just it was so so unhealthy. And it was that moment. Again, it was it wasn't until that moment, I was walking down my apartment hallway, I saw that version of myself, that was not really me, but that had been living my entire life. And that was that moment where I decided I would do whatever it takes to become the woman that I wanted to be to be. I wanted to be beautiful. I want to be powerful. I wanted to make an impact and transform lives. And I wanted to walk into a room and have people notice me not forget that I ever existed, because that's who that's usually what would have happened at that time. And so, I began studying everything under the sun around transformation. I was so upset I became obsessed about transformation. So I became a professional certified image consultant, I began to study like colors and style. Like how do you accentuate the most beautiful part A person's face and body instead of hiding yourself all the time. And then I became a nationally certified personal trainer to understand what the body goes through to undergo to undergo transformation. And this kept on taking me deeper and deeper. And then I became a transformative life coach, I studied three years about the mindset and you know how our thoughts and our feelings impact our, our behavior and our results. And interestingly, this quest for transformation on the outside kept taking me deeper and deeper inside into the world of spirituality, metaphysics and quantum physics, where I discovered that everything that we are seeking on the outside everything, whether it's more money, better relationships, better health, all of that, all of that does not exist unless it exists on the inside, in the metaphysical world, beyond the physical within our minds and our hearts. And this is where I discovered that if we want something in the outside world, that thing is not going to happen unless we it's within us unless we're embodying that thing. That's where I discovered where transformation happens the quickest and the easiest, and and then on another level, Brandon, it's like this. I just because I was so obsessed about like finding the source of all things I discovered. Without knowing it. And without wanting this, I discovered that the source of all things is his spirit, or God, I Brandon Handley 21:35 was gonna I was gonna try. I was gonna try and garble it out there. And you know, maybe I'll have to, like beep it out or something. She gave us the answer, but nobody knows. Unknown Speaker 21:45 Yeah, Brandon Handley 21:46 yes. Yes. Um, so, yes, yes. And yes. I love it. Right, like so. I'll let you continue, then I'll then I'll then I'll throw some more stuff at you. Kat Kim 21:57 Yeah, yeah. Well, and this is what I discovered where divine confidence comes from. It's an unshakable faith in knowing who you are and what you're here to do, regardless of what's going on in the world outside of you. That means regardless of how much money you have, regardless who the President is, regardless of a global pandemic, regardless of your past and your history, and all the mistakes and you know, things that you've done, divine confidence is is is this unshakable faith and knowing who you are and what you're here to do. And this is why this is where I've committed myself to helping other women, other people like me go through that same transformation, and that's where I founded the School of divine confidence. But I primarily work with people kind of like myself, non conformists, misfits, people who've always felt like they've had one side, one side. Brandon Handley 22:48 So you, nonconformists, misfits, I was listening to you earlier today. And I thought at first I thought you said nonconformist mystics. I was like, well, that's cool, too. Like, it could be nonconformist mistakes. I mean, yeah, I would have to say a mystic is a non conformance by like, you know, default, but like, why not like non conformance mistakes as well. So continue? Kat Kim 23:08 spot on, spot on? Absolutely. Yeah. All of the above? Um, yeah, you know, I work I work with people who've always felt like they've had to fit in, but they don't, and they're always trying to conform, but they can't. Those are the people that I love. And I actually call my people, misfits and mutants. Because when, when one time one of my clients called me Professor X, and he said, You are like Professor X, you you see what, you know, the the gift in people, but you only work with mutants, like that. So spot on. Unknown Speaker 23:44 Yeah, Brandon Handley 23:44 I get it. You know, I think that's got to be the deal is it's funny, you know, so my kind of my five words or whatever kind of value prop or whatever, you whatever you want to do with it marketing? Or just my words, right? It's courage like understanding and and really those people that don't fit in it's because like, is it their soul contract that like, I mean, sounds to me, like you never really found like your space, right? But that's because like, the space that's been set out there is like a space of conformity. And you're just like, yeah, it doesn't fit. It sucks to be sitting on the outside, but in the end, I'm super glad I never fucking made it aim. Yeah, right. Like, I mean, I'm a high school dropout as well. That's something I don't think that I've shared yet. On this audience had my fair share of drugs in hand and sold my fair share, but I mean, look, you know, it's also like you say, who we were yesterday, and all those years before it says that's not like my growth trajectory. I'm like, Yeah, that's it was fun. I you know, I can never tell you that I didn't have a good I had a great fucking time. I had a blast. Had some moments of tears and shit that sucked. Yeah, but like, I mean, that just comes with any territory that you run up against. But then you talk about mindset coach like becomes like doing this mindset coaching. Can we say that? Going through your debating course even though we haven't talked about it yet just based off of kind of how I run mine is like, divinity is a mindset. Right? Once you tap into the divine, you're like, well, like that's that's spirit. That's source. That's all encompassing. That's infinite. Yeah. I think I'm gonna be alright. Yeah, right. Like the whole the whole the whole, like, I'm gonna get my worries over to God even though I like I'm not a Christian. I'm like, I buy into that. Like I'm like, Yes. So the subconscious you talk about it covers 95% of like, all of our stuff, right? Not to mention, pumps, our blood grows our hair. Yeah, there's all this stuff. I don't know how that works. Yeah, I'm doing it. And if I can do this, yeah, what else am I capable of? Yeah, right. Yeah. I mean, cuz I'm like, whatever. So um, but everybody has that open to them. So I'm curious. You know, I want to hear you talk. And this just could be me like I hear thinking grow rich. I hear Bob Proctor in the background. Huh? Do I Do you? Are you thinking grow rich and Bob Proctor fan at all? Any of those? Unknown Speaker 26:25 I will. Brandon Handley 26:27 I hear you say like burning desire and stuff like that, like, you know, Kat Kim 26:30 oh, you know, that's I read thinking grow rich. I read that a long time ago. For sure. I know, Bob Proctor? Um, Brandon Handley 26:40 who are your favorite? Like, who are your big teachers that made you like really? Get it? Like when was like the moment like you? You talked about being like, here's your my drugs. I'm hiding behind the rock guys. I'm like, Hey, I'm in your head. You're like, not right now. Not today. But you're like, I'm not gonna tell anybody that it's God. When were you able to say you know, comfortably? Hey, I've had conversations with God. And that's all spirit. And what got you there? Kat Kim 27:04 So that's good question. Because at that time, I didn't even believe I didn't know that. Brandon Handley 27:09 Yeah. So when when did you When did you say all right? Okay, fine. I'll let people know. Right? We're seeing each other. I'm saying, God. Kat Kim 27:18 When did I come out of that God closet? Right. Yeah. Um, so I began, like really diving into spiritual studies over 10 years ago, you know, yeah, I read, thinking Grow Rich, I read all the books, I read all the books, you know, law of attraction, and Esther Hicks and all that. But I started to really, really dive even deeper about five years ago, there's been a while maybe we'll save this for another podcast episode. But there was another thing, a big huge ship that just shit hit the fan in my life on another level, during that time. And I literally was brought to the ground on my knees. at a certain time in my life, when I knew I was absolutely powerless. And I had nothing. There was nothing I can do. And the only thing I could do was finally just like, like you said earlier, actually, you hit the nail on the head, like surrender. I the only thing I can do right now is to surrender to this thing. I don't know if you're out there, God, but this is you know, it's so fucked up right now. It's almost funny. Here. Just take it it was Brandon Handley 28:24 this, right? Yeah, Kat Kim 28:24 it was almost like that it got to that point where it was. There's almost like a freedom to it. I didn't know whether it was gonna work or not. But I think that was actually the key. I was like, yeah, it can't get any worse than this. Unknown Speaker 28:39 Well, Brandon Handley 28:41 it didn't turn out that way. For you. That's good. Right? You know, the deal is, though, is like you you handed it over without expectations, right? You handed it over, and you're like, you know what, I absolutely surrender. I'm not doing such a good job with this by myself. Right? And I'd like to say like, you know, I definitely want to talk more about your school divinity. But like, you know, once you kind of, you know, we act as humans before, before we access this source energy in this space, right? We act as human and we deal with all these worldly things, right? And you hear all the time again, not like a super huge Bible guy, but like, you know, you can't do it through worldly means you like, and then you're like, but I could do it through spiritual means. Yeah, right. I could do it through like metaphysical means. And then you also talked about like, you know, kind of this level of success, you've got to have a level of belief that you can actually achieve that and well, if I look at my history of just Brandon and what have I achieved by myself, right? Maybe not all that I want to achieve I can do by myself. So if I just go ahead and I take in a little bit of God a little bit of divinity and then what am i capable of right like what what can we you know, we can go down like you know, the The Wizard of Oz, right, like arm and arm like skipping down the yellow brick road. Right, like, then we're done. We're a trio and then there's like a time team of us doing something versus Brandon, the human and his worldly ways? Kat Kim 30:04 Well, yeah, so check this out this Oh, this is I remember now clearly what the turning point for me when I went from spiritual mainstream law of attraction to Unknown Speaker 30:15 Yes, yeah next level Kat Kim 30:17 to the next level. One of the things that that one of the handful of things that was happening for me at that time was my niece got arrested for the same crime. on another level like she updated me. I was like, Oh, look at you. Same drugs, more of it more serious. And almost in the same area of Northern California. And her bail was $1 million. And I just became frantic. I was like, Oh, my God, I have to get her out of there. I don't know what to do. The bill was at $1 million. It was a very, very difficult time for me. Like I said, though, that was just one of the things. There was a couple other things that was happening. I'll just say it my dad, I discovered my dad had a gambling addiction. And we were $250,000 in debt. So there was like things happening. Brandon Handley 31:10 So you so you called us just so it sounds like Yeah. And then and then I mean, I don't mean I don't mean to like call it out. But again, with with their culture to compounding that. Kat Kim 31:21 Yeah, exactly. Hush, Hush. Nobody talks about it, don't anybody. I mean, so much shame wrapped in all of these things. And I got to the point, like I said, where I was like, I don't, I can't, there's nothing I can do. I can't stop my father from gambling. There's nothing I can do about my knees. I don't have a million fucking dollars, by the way. Right? So I went to that part. Yeah, I went to my spiritual center, I started going to a spiritual center at that time, almost as everyday, as much as I could, because I needed some sort of sanctuary. And they had a prayer box. And the spiritual leader at that time said, if you need a prayer, you know, put remote Don't forget, don't forget to put a prayer in the prayer box, I thought was bullshit. I walked by it. It wouldn't hurt. I have nothing else to do except for wallow in my pity and my anger right now. So I wrote on a little tiny piece of paper. I need a million dollars or I wrote something like my nieces. And you know, her bail is $1 million. I need help. Please pray for me. I don't know what to do. I wrapped it up and put it in the prayer box. Lo and behold, that $1 million bail, it went down to 500,000. And then they wanted me to appear in court. I went to court with my brother, my brother's daughter. And while we were at court, they brought that $1,500,000 to 020. Brandon Handley 32:53 That's awesome, right like me. So that's it. That's and and so were you at a level where you could look at it that way yet. Kat Kim 33:01 I was beginning to see. What was that? If that's not an answered prayer, I don't know what what is. And this will happen in a very short amount of time. It wasn't like I put this prayer and the prayer box. And then a year later, it was like I put the prayer in there. And then six weeks later, boom, that $1 million went to zero. And of course, who knows what I don't know the legalities of all of whatever. But in my mind, it was that the burden of $1 million that was lifted from my shoulders. And I was like Brandon Handley 33:38 you said I think that's the thing too, right? Like, it doesn't matter what it looks like from the outside. That's been your experience. And you know what, like, I mean for somebody to be like, well, that's coincidence. Oh, that's just the way the law works. You'd be like, Yeah, but I put a prayer and a prayer box. Maybe you didn't catch that. Right. And so I think I think that's the other thing that I want to chat with you a little bit about too, right? Because again, so let's see high school dropout drugs, bad choices, bad choices. Unknown Speaker 34:08 And then Brandon Handley 34:11 you know, I ended up having my family and had a little epiphany in the middle there as us come along but before I came into this podcast and this base literally just in this past year I was doing something called the prosperity practice right like based off it based off the Esther Hicks game right have $100 in your pocket and yada yada and it was I was very very seldom what they want give them what they need, right like because everybody everybody you talk about this I want to talk about to the the spiritual consumerism right but like everybody just wants like, you know, everybody wants all the stuff but like they don't want the rest of the shit that goes with it. I don't I still I'd love to hear more on that but I was like, you know what I was like I'm hiding behind the saying and it's much more than just like this law of attraction and even when I was doing it, mine was more along the lines of Like neville goddard and like some of these other people, right, like, yeah. And then I just fucking, I just, I just let it go. I was like, you know what I was like, I was like this, it's all spiritual. To me. It's all like, that's what it is. And I'm gonna lead with spirituality, and see where it goes. And ever since I did it, like it's just blown up. I mean, nobody reached out to me when I was in prosperity practice, you've reached out to me, people reach out to me, like left and right to be on spiritual dope. And it's just like, so it's just like, it's like, it's fucking crazy, right? Because now, like, when you're like, in alignment with spirit and your purpose, and yourself then just starts to happen. And you're like, Well, Kat Kim 35:38 yeah, Brandon Handley 35:39 where's this coming from? Right? That was the other piece I want to ask you to was like, um, you know, when you talk about your, your divinity school, right and and getting into is there is there a piece in there where it's, you've got the self confidence, and all that is there a piece in there where you delve into purpose as well? Kat Kim 35:59 Oh, 100%, it's all it's all purpose. It's all purpose. And that's part of the framework where I help people, I just want to teach give my students the skills to know how to reach their own divine confidence at any given moment at any given time. And I think that's the, you know, the false belief that our purpose is something is a one time thing. And that it's something that we, you know, our purpose is going to be this thing that we do for the rest of our life. And, and that's actually not the case. That's, that's the opposite of spirituality. Spirituality is being in the moment and the here and the now and being present to the gifts and what's whatever is wrong with you. In this moment, as we know, there's no, there's no, if you're regretting the past and your future tripping, then you've, you've missed the point of this present moment. So, you know, part of one of the things that I teach is that your purpose is not in the future. It's right here, it's right now. And if you can, if you can, if you know how to ground into that and become present to that, what else do you need, and just like you shared, like, once you, you know, align with that, then everything unfolds naturally and easily. And that's what I think a lot of people, most people have a hard time grasping. It's that surrendering and letting go of having your their hands in all the details and having to know how everything is going to happen with us, because how it looks on the outside. Right, exactly. Brandon Handley 37:26 So so what you see on the outside, you see other people doing on the outside? That's, you know, I can use some examples, like when you know, what, are still working sales. When I see historically, like people like acting frantically, it's always going to be frantic for that person, right? Like, yeah, that person is always on fire, this person is always this way, this is always going to happen for that person. Because we talked you talked about earlier, like, you know, your level of belief is, oh, I have to do it this way. This is the way I've had success before. If I don't metal the whole time, then it's just not gonna happen for me. Right. But like, it doesn't have to be you. Yeah, as a matter of fact, it's not you. It's maybe maybe it's initiated through you, but like, you work with a team, most likely of other people. Yeah, you don't have to, you know, be on them. But again, you're, if you're tapped into your purpose, and you're live with that, and you're, you're, you're you're rolling with Jesus, or whatever, you know, whatever you're doing, right, and you're tapped in the source, and you can kind of step back for a second and let it like, gently unfold and it will. Yeah, but try telling somebody that. Yeah, Kat Kim 38:36 well, that's part of, you know, that's part of kind of this toxic masculinity energy that we've all been kind of fed into what I mean by that there's the masculine, and there's the feminine, and they're both equally beautiful and powerful, right? But when the masculine energy is about, like, you know, is very linear. It's taking action, it's finding something and moving towards it. Regardless, the feminine energy is about allowing, it's about letting it's about being right. The masculine energy is about volition. So you see something, you go for it. So in this world right now, we that's it's become toxic, where we're meaning we've taken everything, and we've turned it into something that we have to set a goal and we have to make it happen, regardless of who gets harmed in the way Brandon Handley 39:26 out of success. You're not a success if you set a goal and achieve it. Right. Kat Kim 39:32 Exactly, exactly. So now we've we've all been conditioned to believe that that's the only way and the one way that we achieve success that we have to set that goal, we have to go for it. We have to power through it, just do it. I mean, we see it all over in marketing, but we see this now in our government, we see this in extractive capitalism, we see this, you know, and what I mean by extractive capitalism going for, like reaching, you know, revenue goals, regardless of who gets harmed in the way we go. So the natural resources that we demolish along the way, so it's this, it's not a person, it's not a it's not a political party. It's just the collective energy that we've all kind of we've all been part of, and we've all molded into. And spirituality has also been kind of swept into that as well. And that's where I came to see that. Even spirituality can be toxic when it's just about what do I want to manifest? How much money in the big house and all of that? And what what, how am I going to think positive, and bypass all the issues that come along with this type of lifestyle, not going to talk about that, but I just want to create the life that I want. And I'm going to use spirituality to do it. And now I'm spiritual. Brandon Handley 40:49 And that's true, right. But I mean, again, like there's, it's funny, my wife and I were talking earlier, like there's a different level two, where it sounds like you've achieved right, like you've gone through, you know, you've gone through that phase, right? Like, it sounds like you went through that phase with like, you know, Esther Hicks and law of attraction, right? And But you came out on like, the other end of it, right? Where we're sure it's okay to want. But the idea to, you know, want a want without attachment to the outcome, right? Like, yeah, I'd love this to happen, right? This would be great. I'm gonna go work towards it. But I'm totally cool. If it doesn't turn out the way I envisioned it. Right, it could and then maybe accepting that outcome, right, like the outcome they come in, came out pretty cool. Right? Or just being like, Alright, we're gonna try a different way. Right. But not getting caught up in that? Kat Kim 41:43 Yeah. Well, that's what I was gonna say. But the problem is, is most people are attached, doesn't Brandon Handley 41:47 it? Yeah. 100% Yeah, yeah. But you know, that's, that's the same thing as even even creating a goal, the challenge because people are like, they're afraid to share what they even want, even writing it on paper to themselves, because they've always been taught, Hey, you got enough, you should be happy. You're, you know, even some of your words, right? You should be lucky, you got what you got. Right? Like, and, and, and that kind of thing. So. So now it's like, but I want a little bit more, but everybody says I can't? Kat Kim 42:16 Yeah, well, it's totally mixed messages. There's that part where you should be happy with what you have. And then there's the the overarching message that we receive from all the marketing out there and the consumer culture that actually, you need to do more and more and more and more and more and more, so that we get mixed messages. And I think the key here, Brandon, is that, again, design confidence means taking your focus away from that outside world, this is the practice of spirituality, taking your focus away from the outside world going inwards, and really digging in very deep into and finding out what actually do you want in your heart of heart? What is your heart's desire. And that's where the connection to your real source and to your true calling actually is right there. And that's the thing that's hard for people to do is to disconnect from social media, seeing all these Instagram posts of people who have all the money and all the cool pictures, and really going into to find out what actually Are you being called into? What is your true true, true good in this moment? Brandon Handley 43:22 So how do you find yours? By Kat Kim 43:24 that process? It's it's a constant process. It's like, Brandon Handley 43:29 were you listening, Brandon? Unknown Speaker 43:30 Yeah, hello. Oops. Kat Kim 43:35 Um, but something important about that, let me answer this is like, I have to find it again. And again, and again. Because I'm, I am, I am part of that culture as well. I have, you know, I'm on social media, I see all the things I'm not free from that. I want all the money's, okay, I want all the things, Brandon Handley 43:53 all the things, right, Kat Kim 43:54 I want all of it. I want all of it. And I see people who have more than me, and I'm like, fucking a, why don't I have that? And then it's that reminder. Well, let's, let's go back in, you know, and that's that process of reclaiming my personal power, and my divinity. And that process is about letting go of that attach to the Unknown Speaker 44:13 outside world. Brandon Handley 44:14 So what is your What is your process and you know, to attach to divinity, right, like, how do you help somebody uncover that for themselves? Kat Kim 44:21 Yeah, it's, it's, it's like, um, you know, the questions that I asked, well, there's, there's first I asked you, you know, like, first you have to get really clear on what what's not working in your life? You know, what are your biggest challenges? What are you Where do you suffer the most? What's the thing that you keep coming up against? Most people are trying to run away from that, but I want to say no, that's actually here to show you. If this is not the thing you want, what is the thing you want? What? So that's how I guide people if this is what you don't want. Let's use that to point us in The direction of what you actually want. But once you figure out what you want, it's not the tangible thing of it. It's the essence of it. So for example, if you want a big home, and you want to be able to come home and take care of your family, and you want your own space, okay, that's great. That's the physical representation of it. But what is the essence of that thing? Unknown Speaker 45:23 For you, like, Brandon Handley 45:24 why is that? What what what what does that represent to that person? Is that what you're saying? Kat Kim 45:29 Yeah, what is the essence of the physical, tangible thing that we want, when we can get to the essence of it? So for example, if we're getting to the essence of that big house, maybe it's connection with your family, maybe it's family, that is the thing that you're actually craving. That's that inward journey, we're so focused on the thing and not the essence of it. Looking at it, the essence of it, that's the calling that's God, that's the way God is showing up for you in the the essence of it, know how to process it. Outside of the tangible. Brandon Handley 45:58 Yeah, even even on the outside, even, even during Look, I'm not that deep into my journey, right? Like, I think I'm like, three years in, but I took the accelerated course. The meditation, you know, has been something big for me. And usually when I do like, meditation, I'm big fan, I love headspace. And he's always like, you know, go to like, the, you know, make that light edges of, you know, how far can you expand it? I'm like, as the universe bro, let's go, right, like, you know, right outside and riding that edge, right? Because that's where the creation is, right? Like this, in my mind anyways, but then even just today are inside is just as infinite as the outside, right? Like, you know, random epiphanies are inside. But that's what it was, like, you know, I spent a little bit of time digging around inside and meditating and reflecting on the inside. But if you think about it, it's just as infinite as all the rest of the universe. And so I spent some time there. Kat Kim 47:01 Yeah. And if you think about it, it's like, all of all of God or spirit, whatever name you have for it. All of God is in you just as much as it is in the universe. All of God is in the tip of this pen that I'm showing you right now, as it is, is a new God doesn't get split around. And in, you know, allocate 10% here Brandon Handley 47:26 20% here, right? It's like the sunshine, right? Like, they're the sun's out there. He's not like, everybody can go step out and get as much sun as you can today. Right? Like, I mean, it's, it's, there's no allocation to it outside, like no shade, whatever. But I mean, essentially, like, everybody gets the same amount of sun. It's like infinite, there's more than we can use and that kind of thing. Just the same as like you're saying, hey, gods, like, there's there's more than you can use feel? Kat Kim 47:49 More than more than enough, more than enough. Yeah. Brandon Handley 47:54 So that's fun, right? What do you want to go What's next? Kat Kim 48:01 Oh, well, hmm. You know, I think the interesting part of all this is yet like, you know, I was on this spiritual journey, manifesting things teaching people how to manifest and then and then it was like, I went to this kind of dark night of the soul again on I do that a lot. Dammit. I need to cut those down. Brandon Handley 48:24 Here's the thing. I don't know that I've had any, you know, so like, I'm almost jealous, but I'm not. Like I was like, dark night of the soul. But I'm like, I'm not gonna pass. I'm cool. Kat Kim 48:36 No, they suck. But yeah, you should just pass but I um, you know, this is now I started going to my spiritual center, I did the prayer and the prayer box got obsessed with this thing called God and prayer. Brandon Handley 48:52 What kind of spiritual center was it by the way, Kat Kim 48:54 it's called science of mind the centers for spiritual living. It's a philosophy of thought that really combines it goes into the golden thread of all spiritual traditions and essentially boils it down to that we are all one and we all come from one source. And it's it wasn't recognized it didn't it wasn't trying to be a religion, but it became a religion is now officially recognized as a religion as of maybe five years ago or so. And I started just really going deeply its study of mysticism, essentially. And I became licensed as a spiritual practitioner took me three, three years to do that. And I learned about our connection to source and you know, the power of prayer and I read all these cool books. It was just like, it was like, law of attraction on crack. Brandon Handley 49:48 Yes. It's like it's a it's a you know, it's more than a force multiplier, right. Like it's and and I love you know, I love that you bring up drugs right? Because Here's the deal to like, how would you define the difference between you know, being cracked out or high versus having a spiritual high? Kat Kim 50:15 Well, Unknown Speaker 50:18 I don't know. I mean, one of Unknown Speaker 50:19 I mean, Kat Kim 50:20 one's gonna fuck you up physically. I mean, as your I mean, the reason I'm, I'm trying to go back to my days of smoking crack and all that I'm like, the only thing that I can you're kind of giving me like, what do you call it when you have like a craving? I'm having a moment where I'm like, oh, that would be really nice if I could smoke. Brandon Handley 50:44 Right there. I mean, crack wasn't my thing. But like, yeah, definitely, like, I'm always like, you know, I did, did the party scene right back in the day, like the rays and dance and all that stuff. And I'm always like, Man, you know, I wouldn't mind a couple pills and some acid. It's just gonna dance, Kat Kim 51:00 acid, ecstasy, cocaine, all of this. Yeah, you're making me feel like oh, that would be Brandon Handley 51:13 the question was question was is, you know, when when you think about it, right? And your connection to spirituality versus that same ethereal high that you get when on drugs, right. So you get that you get that kind of high when you're on drugs. But then there's the kind of high when you get when you're in spirit to aka spiritual dope, right? Like right now. That's where spiritual doubt comes from, like, get your head in spiritual dope, because like, you can have this. So how would you define the difference between the two? Kat Kim 51:39 Really good question. Um, so here are the here the similarities that I am that I'm putting together that I have never really thought of it because no one's asked me that question. And this is really important for people to know who are on a spiritual journey. So when you do drugs, as you know, you get high, and then you you have that crash, you crash afterwards. And it really, really sucks depending on the drug that you do and how much it's I mean, you're out for days. The same thing is with spiritual highs as well. And I think that's the thing, a lot of people who are on a spiritual journey, they're seeking this, the eternal high. Like, once they get there to some sort of Nirvana that they're gonna stay there. And then when they dip, you know, when they crash, that they're doing spirituality wrong. And I want to tell you, actually, it's, it's still it's all part of that journey. And that's the part the dip, you know, the crashing the part where you don't feel good about yourself, the where the part where you are confused, and there's darkness. I, I would want people to know, and this is what I teach in the school, divine confidence, too, is that there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with being there. It's all part of the journey. And trying to go for that peak and that high. And dismissing everything else as not being spiritual and doing it wrong. That's where that's where you get fucked up. Because now now you're trying to constantly seek for that hot, you're a fucking drug addict. Damn it. Brandon Handley 53:10 is. And then and then the deal is, though, is this like? Yeah. But I could think of worse habits. Unknown Speaker 53:19 I know. Brandon Handley 53:22 That so so. But that's a great call out right. I mean, I probably hadn't thought about it. And that that in that fashion before the coming down from spirituality, and then feeling like I'm doing it wrong, right, or getting caught up in it. I'd have to think about it right. But I mean, so so you would liken it to at least kind of coming down parts of it right? Where you where you have your highs, and then would you liken it to also like if you have a large spiritual high or an ongoing spiritual high, then there's going to be a substantial recovery period. Kat Kim 54:01 I think there's always going to be highs and lows to everything that that's the eternal spiritual truth. And in my Buddhism practice, I practice, the passion of meditation, and all of that the personal meditation is centered around this one law, which is the law of impermanence. Meaning that all things arise and all things fall. And if you look out in nature, in the nature, you know, the seasons arise and fall, plants and trees arise and fall. Humans are life. We live we grow, we grow strong, and then we decline and then we die. Everything our emotions arise and fall, our cravings arise and they fall. Where suffering happens is when we get attached to one thing arising and staying there. Or one thing going away falling and staying there. That's where suffering happens is that we want something to stay the same or change but The truth of all things in all of life and all of nature is that they, they arise and then they fall. So when we can accept that, then we can accept even, okay, let's, let's continue to use the analogy of drugs, for example, that craving. That, that, that that sense of like that craving for a drug, you know, or any food, or having sex or anything that drives pleasure. You know, the truth is, that sensation is going to arise and if we allow it, it will fall, it will go away. And if, you know, if we're really practicing spirituality, if we become aware, then we can just simply observe that craving come up, and we can watch it go away. But, you know, we most people can't, right, they want to react, they're reacting to that craving. Well, I Unknown Speaker 55:51 think I think that to Brandon Handley 55:54 that, that that takes practice, right, catching yourself, right where you know, you know, making the conscious choice right you know, awareness of all things not just like your spirituality awareness of Oh, that's a craving Oh, that's a you know, whatever. I think that's huge. I like it. what's what's hot in your world right now? Like what what are you working on that? You think people should come check out your school? Is there anything else going on? Yeah, Kat Kim 56:19 I got this school going on right now. It's called the school divine confidence. But what I've just recently launched it's as this is what be my second episode is uncertain. Brandon Handley 56:30 sermon. Yeah. I'm Unknown Speaker 56:31 serving. Unknown Speaker 56:33 La. Kat Kim 56:34 Yeah, it's a it's a weekly uncertain where I share a life story, a spiritual lesson, a rant, a sermon on whatever topic to keep us affirmed and galvanized on our spiritual journey, but it's really about deconditioning decolonizing undoing, right? And conditioning uncertain. And Brandon Handley 56:58 I love it. I love it. What what brought that about for you? Kat Kim 57:03 Going back to what you and I started off with his I just found this passion for talking about spirit and God, but I'm not religious, I'm not religious. So Brandon Handley 57:13 is your is your God, like, tell us about your God? I'm curious, Kat Kim 57:16 oh, my God, my God is my god swears all the time. My God is like, very passionate by God is a thing. It's an experience. And it's something that I can call upon at any time. It's not this thing that I have to pray for, or pray to is just this, this, this, it's an energy, it's a vibration, I call it God vibration. And, and the more that I access that, that just the easier that all things become. And the more I study it, the mysticism, metaphysics, when I, the more I study, the source of all things, is just mind blowing, to know and to really understand that oh, my God, I am that source of all things. So that's, that's what this exploration of uncertain is, is, is a different idea and relationship of God and what we can and what's possible with that? Brandon Handley 58:17 That's great. It's great. I love that you're, you know, you're taking it out, right, you're bringing it to the people. And and you're doing it in your own way based off your experiences. So that's great. Thank you so much. So where am I gonna send people to go kind of hang out with you? Kat Kim 58:31 Yeah, so I do these. Yeah, I do the weekly uncertain. I do them live every week in my facebook group. It's called The Confident leadership community. So come on, join me in there. I've got free training going on. I've got things to offer you. Come say hi, I'd love to see you. Unknown Speaker 58:47 Sweet. Who's your ideal client? Kat Kim 58:50 My ideal client is the person who just knows in their bones that they are being called to do something important, but they feel stuck. They're uncertain. They feel that the thing that they want to do is impossible. It's the non conformists, the misfit. It's the mutant out there. Brandon Handley 59:07 Somebody who knows they've got power but hasn't figured out how to control it and is afraid to share Kat Kim 59:12 Yep, yeah, to come out and be who they really are someone who's always been trying to fit in and they realize oh my god, this isn't working for me. Brandon Handley 59:19 Sweet Why, thank you so much for coming on today. Kat can really appreciate Unknown Speaker 59:24 ya. Thanks for having me, Brandon. Transcribed by https://otter.ai

It's been a busy fall already for Medtronic; they've acquired Companion Medical and the FDA approved their 770G pump. Stacey catches up with Diabetes Group President Sean Salmon to talk about that and much more. Find out the difference between the 770G and the upcoming 780G, their plans for longer-wear pump insets and when they might have a no-calibration sensor. In Innovations this week, a new study showing the benefits of once a week basal insulin. It's called Insulin Icodec. This podcast is not intended as medical advice. If you have those kinds of questions, please contact your health care provider. Check out Stacey's new book: The World's Worst Diabetes Mom! Join the Diabetes Connections Facebook Group! Sign up for our newsletter here ----- Use this link to get one free download and one free month of Audible, available to Diabetes Connections listeners! ----- Get the App and listen to Diabetes Connections wherever you go! Click here for iPhone      Click here for Android Episode Transcription Stacey Simms  0:00 Diabetes Connections is brought to you by One Drop created for people with diabetes by people who have diabetes by Gvoke hypopen, the first remixed autoinjector for very low blood sugar, and by Dexcom, take control of your diabetes and live life to the fullest with Dexcom.   Announcer  0:21 This is Diabetes Connections with Stacey Simms.   Stacey Simms  0:27 This week, catching up with Medtronic, we're talking about the newly approved 770 G, looking ahead to the 780 G, their acquisition of In Pen and how they think they've cracked the code on longer where pump in sets,   Sean Salmon  0:42 the things that are in insulin to keep it from going bad. The preservatives, if you will, are behind a lot of that sort of site actions that you get. So we're able to take that stuff out and have just filtered Insulet. a queue will deliver to the site. That's really the magic behind getting the extension of use.   Stacey Simms  1:00 That's Sean Salmon. He heads up Medtronic diabetes group. In innovations this week, a once a week basal insulin, how would that even work? This podcast is not intended as medical advice. If you have those kinds of questions, please contact your health care provider. Welcome to another week of the show. I am so glad to have you if you are new welcome. Glad you found us We aim to educate and inspire about type 1 diabetes by sharing stories of connection. My son was diagnosed right before he turned to back in 2006. And we have his high school sophomore 504 meeting this week. Yeah, it's virtual. His whole school is virtual. I've shared on the show before he is part of a very large school district in the Charlotte, North Carolina area. And the whole district has been virtual. younger kids are starting to go back to school in October. They're staggering it right now High School won't go back in person until January at least that's the plan. So I'm really interested to see how they handle this 504 meeting. He's had one, you know, we've been diagnosed since he was two. So he's always had one. In our district. We have a separate DMMP a diabetes medical management plan that covers a lot of the basics that are maybe in your your child's 504, but I assume this will focus on testing. I don't know. I mean, he's home. So you know, he can go to the bathroom when he wants he can drink water when he wants. I'll share more about that though. Mostly, I think this is about keeping our place in the 504 for things like the ACT and the PSAT and all that testing and he is so thrilled, but it's going to be coming up. Another thing I want to tell you about real quick is Hey, in September, we saw a big boost of sales of the audio book of the world's worst diabetes Mom, you know, this is my book, it's part memoir, part advice, stories, real life stories about raising a child with type 1 diabetes. And the audible version has been very popular. And I'm telling you September, I don't know maybe end of summer and everyone decided to get an audiobook, but audible loves when that happens. And now I have two free copies to give away, you do not need to have an audible account, you don't even need to really start one here, you're not going to be signing up for something you can't get out of you do need an Amazon account. So if you want the copy, I'm not doing a fancy contest on social media, I probably should. But all you have to do email me Stacey at Diabetes connections.com put audio book in the subject line and I will give you the first two people who do so a free book will make it very simple there. If you're interested in perhaps the paperback or the ebook, you can head on over to Diabetes connections.com or it's on Amazon, whatever is easiest for you. One more thing and it's an apology. Last week I apparently mixed up when I was talking about Medtronic 770 and 780 G. We do clarify that in the interview here with Sean Salmon. But to be clear, the 770 g was recently approved in the US. It is basically the same as the 670 g except for the addition of Bluetooth connectivity for data sharing and remote monitoring. And as you will hear, you'll be able to update the 770 G and future Medtronic pumps at home just like your phone. Alright, Sean Salmon. With that and a bunch more we go down a laundry list, but first diabetes Connections is brought to you by One Drop, and I spoke to the people at One Drop, I was really impressed at how much they get diabetes. And it makes sense when you think about it. Their CEO, Jeff was diagnosed with type one as an adult. One Drop is for people with diabetes by people with diabetes, and the people at One Drop work relentlessly to remove all barriers between you and the care you need. Get 24 seven coaching support in your app and unlimited supplies deliver no prescriptions or insurance required. Their beautiful sleek meter fits in perfectly with the rest of your life. They'll also send you test strips with a strip plan that actually makes sense for how much you actually check One Drop diabetes care delivered. learn more, go to Diabetes connections.com and click on the One Drop logo. My guest this week is Medtronic Executive Vice President and President for the diabetes group, Sean Salmon. And we spoke just as the deal for Medtronic to buy companion medical makers of the In Pen was closing. So that is a done deal. Now, In Pen is a smart insulin pen, you're probably familiar with it, it keeps track of dosing and recommended dosing, sort of like what you'd get with an insulin pump, you still have to inject, but the dosing can be automatic, the app will tell you exactly what to do. And keep track just like an insulin pump does as well. We talk about that. And a lot more here. Here's my talk with Sean Salmon. Sean, thank you so much for joining me. There's a lot going on at Medtronic these days, I appreciate you spending some time with me and my listeners.   Sean Salmon  5:44 That's my pleasure. I appreciate the opportunity. Thanks, Stacey.   Stacey Simms  5:46 We're gonna go down pretty much a laundry list of technology and questions from listeners and things that they want to know. But let me start slow. And just ask you, how are you feeling about everything these days, we've got delays because of COVID. We've got, you know, a year like no other it's a cliche at this point. But you know, in your own words, how are things these days at Medtronic, and in terms of, you know, what you're looking at going forward?   Sean Salmon  6:09 Well, it's interesting, right? I think we're all living through some unprecedented times, just everywhere in the world right now. And it's certainly challenging. But at the same time across Medtronic, you know, I think we've got such a rich pipeline, and just about every single business, it's, it's exciting to see what you know, what the future is gonna bring, we get past some of these near term challenges. I've been here for 17 years, I can't remember a time where we had so much innovation all stacked up, ready to go   Stacey Simms  6:34 Well, let's jump in and talk about it. One of the first things I want to ask you about is the acquisition of companion medical. And this is the startup they've got the in pen. This is the I think my listeners are very familiar with it. And we've done episodes on it. So tell me a little bit about what the plan is, for companions in pen product with Medtronic, what are you gonna do with it?   Sean Salmon  6:59 Yeah, sure. Well, maybe I'll start out with, you know, why did we decide this was a good idea? And yes, I came into this role. Yeah, you whenever you start a new job, it's been about a year from now, the first thing you do is you formulate a strategy of how are you going to serve your patients in the market? And it's really, you know, strategy is really a question of, what are you providing for who, when you start asking those questions, it really narrows down what your focus should be in, and didn't take that long to sort of Peel apart? What is it that are people living with diabetes are seeking and how are they? How are they being treated today. And if you look around the world, it depends on the country you're in. But multiple daily injections is the most frequently chosen therapy, it's something that ranges between 60 and 90% of the treatments that are out there. So you know, really the philosophy app is that for us to know, what are provided for whom we need to know, you know, where do people where are they on their journey? And where do they want to go. So, you know, injection in and of itself is a fine therapy. But there's just really variable outcomes that patients are being able to get from that. And a lot actually about just the, it's made difficult by the fact that you really don't always know how vigilant you are, how much insulin you've taken, how much you have on board. And it's very hard to keep track of all that. And what companion has done with the implant system, of course, is to track that insulin, so you know exactly how much is given at the right amount of time and have some estimation for carbohydrates, the ability to load that up. And then of course, the CGM data is there. So when you have those components, a lot of that difficult math calculation about how much insulin Do I need to take at a given time is made simpler. And we can extend that by adding a lot of what we have within our automated insulin delivery systems, algorithms, personalization of those algorithms into that experience with a pen. So if you will, we're trying to close that open loop, or at least close it down some and what we do with automated insulin delivery systems as we have this track record, right, have you just recording CGM data over time, and knowing what the influent amount is, you can really get to an understanding of how individuals kind of respond to insulin, and more personalized, the amount of dosing that happens. So get an even tighter connection to how much insulin someone needs to take at a given point of time. Of course, on meal handling, that's the place, we're really pushing a lot of our technology, we have a very large and capable group that does data science and artificial intelligence. And all that really means is that we're able to take large data sets, and then put them into actionable insights that really simplify how people can get better control without having to do anything. And one of the really interesting areas we're investing in right now is around meal handling. So we can with our technology have a really good sense of when you're going to eat. And we can confirm that some gesture control technologies that come from a wearable like a Fitbit, or an apple watch or something like that. That tell us can confirm that some is eating. So in that instance, you could, for example, remind people, there's been no bolus given that it's time to bolus. And if you miss just two boluses a week in a meal, that equates to about a half point increase on the A1C. So obviously, outcomes can be made better. But the important thing is that it's done in a sort of an invisible way or helpfully in the background way. We're not asking somebody to anymore, which I think is really the sort of driving principle behind what companion medical set out to do within pen spec, this least burdensome as possible? Well, we can add a lot of technology that isn't visible to the user, for the most part, but can really drive a better experience and better outcomes. So what we're trying to do with a closed loop we can bring to this open loops, I said, and that's really, I think how the two fit together can help it a lot of ways.   Stacey Simms  10:58 A couple of questions about You just said you. You mentioned the gesture technology. That's Klue, right. You all acquired Klue this year.   Sean Salmon  11:03 Yes, exactly.   Stacey Simms Is that going to be part of a companion medical system?   Sean Salmon Yes. So the idea is, we're going to have that for any means of insulin delivery, right. So it's the ability to detect that somebody is in the process of eating. And the absence of any kind of bolus is a great opportunity to say here, let me give you a helpful tip here and remind you to bowls, whether you're pushing a button on your pump, or you're, you're reminding yourself to bolus we can drive some improvement there. And it was evaluated in a recent study that we did. It's a small study. But we showed that we could fact drop a one suit by a fairly sizable amount just by bolus reminder. Now, ultimately, I think we can use Klue and that technology in a way that can actually automate the delivery of bolus so nobody has to do anything within a sort of closed loop system. But you know, that's, that's some more work than where, or whatever to do it. Absolutely. It's   Stacey Simms  11:53 you heard me laugh, because, you know, just by bolus reminder, parents around the world have children with Type One Diabetes would argue with you that a simple bolus reminder in the form of a parent does not make that much of a difference. Yeah. But I hear you, I   Sean Salmon  12:07 think it Yeah, I mean, the difference here is the bolus reminders, and just it's time to bolus what we can do. Knowing the history of how much insulin is on board. Get a quick estimation is the medium small, large amount of carbohydrates being consumed, we can tell you how much to bolus not just that you need the bolts, right? which we think is a helpful insight.   Stacey Simms  12:28 When you talk about Klue. It also makes me laugh as you listen. As I talked about Klue, we did an episode with them in the past if you'd like to learn more, and Sean , I laugh because every time I talk about Klue I do the gesture of eating food. I don't you can't see me but every time I mentioned it, I think that's because that's how it was explained to me when they first demonstrated it. It's a really interesting technology. But that'll be in not just pens, you're planning on using that in pumps as well.   Sean Salmon  12:53 Yeah, so you know, Klue actually runs on on a wearable. And then it talks to the algorithm that's either you know, on your phone for your pen, or can be the algorithm that's driving the automated insulin delivery system. So think of it like a sensor, and the sensor gives input so that the algorithm knows what's happening. And it lends itself to any means of insulin delivery.   Stacey Simms  13:15 One of the big concerns and you know this when a large company buys or acquires a small company or product the big concern is that you know, it'll be shelved or there will be big changes to make it more proprietary. The in pen is now used with Dexcom and the ever since implantable CGM. Can you reassure people who are using it right now that you're not going to change that I assume it'll be used with a with a Medtronic sensor, but will you continue with the sensors that it is integrated with right now?   All right, right back to Sean answering that question. But first diabetes Connections is brought to you by Gvoke hypo pen, and almost everyone who takes insulin has experienced a low blood sugar and that can be scary. A very low blood sugar is really scary. That's where Gvoke hypo pen comes in. It's the first auto injector to treat very low blood sugar Gvokek Hypo pen is pre mixed and ready to go with no visible needle. That means it's easy to use in usability studies 99% of people were able to give Gvoke correctly. I'm so glad to have something new. Find out more go to Diabetes connections.com and click on the G voke logo. gvoke should not be used in patients with pheochromocytoma or insulinoma visit gvoke glucagon comm slash risk. Now back to Sean , talking about Medtronic plans to continue in Pen with its current partners.   Sean Salmon  14:44 Yes, we have no plans to take away anybody's sensors from them. But we're not entirely in control of that. So if if sensionics and Dexcom plan to maintain that access and then we're game we want to make sure that people have the support they need   Stacey Simms  15:00 When you say you’re not in control of it, you’re talking about what Dexcom and Eversense would do,  you're not talking about something on your side.   Sean Salmon  15:07 No. So the way all this works is you have to have, depending on what platform of phone you're dealing with, you have to have a thing called an API, which is basically a hook of software into the algorithm. So somebody on Sony decides they don't want to have that access to the longer they can turn it off. But we're not going to turn it off. We don't have control over that. So our belief is that, you know, if we're meeting patients where they are, and they're on a Sensionics device, we should maintain that access for those patients. Of course, we want to open up access to our own CGM. So we have a lot coming in the pipeline for CGM, which is pretty exciting. But no, I understand the sentiment that when you a large company buy something that they want to shelf it This isn't like big oil buying biofuel. Right now we're, we think we're gonna bring a lot better experienced to patients by combining the best of what companion has developed an impact with what we're endeavoring to do with things like Klue and neutrino and a lot of other personalization algorithms that be used in the closed loop side.   Stacey Simms  16:08 So let's talk about sensors. Let's just pivot right to that first, though, before we let this whole thing go within any timeline and integration with the guide. assume it's with the Guardian, CGM.   Sean Salmon  16:17 Yes, so initially, we'll have Guardian, but there's no we have three or four, five actually different generations of sensors coming and it's going to be compatible with everything we develop going forward as well.   Stacey Simms  16:30 Let's talk about Guardian Connect. This is the standalone CGM doesn't need to be paired with an insulin pump. Tell me a little bit about the reception of that, what the plan is for it. And you know, Who is it for?   Sean Salmon  16:41 Yes, so I think a standalone Guardian has been sort of an on ramp to be able to use an integrated CGM with our pump. But frankly, I think the experience that we've provided with that needs a lot of improvement. That's what we're endeavoring to fix with the pipeline. And there's two parts to that one is finger sticks, you know, to, to calibrate or to confirm before dosing as required finger sticks, and that's something that we are trying to remove in the next generation. And the other one is on just the, the ease of putting it on. And it takes a lot of overtaken steps to insert, and generates a lot of trash in the process. So all of that's problematic. And we're, we're moving to an integrated platform where the sensor, and the transmitter all in one, easy to apply three step, just press it on your body kind of approach. And in the interim, reducing or eliminating the need for finger sticks. That's what the near term pipelines about and then longer term, we can take the size of that down even further, we're already taking about 50% of the volume down from one move to next, we can get a lot smaller than that we have some really interesting technology that uses something called a wafer fabrication, which just means you can make very small electronics in a very highly repeatable way. So you take a lot of variation out. And then of course, you know, making sure that we're continuously improving the reliability and the wear life of these devices. There's a lot of technologies we have aimed at to to ensure that that happens. And simple things like we spend a lot of time money and effort developing patches is going to stay there, you know, the adhesive that won't interfere with the skin, but will stay there through very difficult conditions. And it took a lot of engineering, we actually did a lot of work in the fields in South Florida, just you know, high humid, very hot heat to make sure that we would have this he's up just right. So there's a lot going on in the CGM side of things. That's pretty intriguing.   Stacey Simms  18:40 I'm curious, and this is a very specific question. These future generations, any plan to go straight from a CGM sensor to a watch, that's something that just seems to be very difficult, you know, no phone involved in between? Nothing like that.   Sean Salmon  18:55 Yeah, no, it is difficult. And it's difficult for a lot of reasons, including power management of how that that Bluetooth connection is different than one to a phone. So I think as as watches evolve, and maybe that technology changes and the ability to kind of talk a lot of this on the kind of wearable side of things. It's not entirely just what can you do with your CGM, your algorithm said some, it is more complicated than you'd think, you know, hopping from phone to watch that takes the processing power and the connectivity that's already there. But think of it like a highway, right? There's like so many lanes have a highway that you can drive a car on. And if the watch is already tethered to one, one connection by Bluetooth to your phone, you've got fewer lanes available, other connections. So that's really, you know, it's I don't get too technical about it. But that's really the the near term challenge. But you know, I think there's strong interest in this. And as the wearables progress, I think we'll have the opportunity to to do things like that. But right now, it's just complicated.   Stacey Simms  19:56 All right, let's talk 770 g This was approved by the FDA in August, and it's down to kids as young as two, my understanding was for the approval. Now I'm this is gonna pardon my take on this. And this is for all of the pump companies. I wish you guys would call your pumps, something that told us more about it. I don't know if it's a medical device thing, and I have this problem with Omnipod and Tandem and everybody else. But you know, it's all numbers. So tell us a little bit about what's different from the 770 g to the 670. And then to the 780. Like, right, what's different about this pump?   Sean Salmon  20:33 Yeah, so the the biggest difference other than age education, which does, you know, it's still indicated for people over the age. I think there was some confusion at first said it's just for kids, and it's not Oh, kids. Yeah, so I, you know, I think that the biggest difference is really the inclusion of Bluetooth connectivity with this with this device. And that does a number of things. So first and foremost, it allows a person or a parent or caregiver to see the CGM pump date on a film. So we we've been lagging in that competency. Now that's available. It also allows the carelink system which is our management system glucose to automatically update so that you can do things like telehealth visits, right. Or if somebody's going to the doctor's office, rather than that, that kind of interruption to the workflow where the pump has to be connected and then downloaded, that really slows down that visit for for the person that's, you know, at the visit, it slows down the workflow for the health care providers. So the ability to take that connection and automatically upload it at your convenience without having to do anything, is what that connectivity brings to us as well. And then finally, it goes all the way to we can when software becomes available, make upgrades. Or if you have to patch something knows you know how to get out of your phone, where they'll have a new version to patch up something, you can just push that over the air. So we have that capability to upgrade future algorithms without having to connect anywhere.   Stacey Simms  21:59 So just to be clear, this is like what we do with the Tandem X2, you plug it into the computer, you get the latest download, it changes the software in the pump, and then you're off and running. Same thing, plug it in,   Sean Salmon  22:09 that was what one big difference, we'll plug into the computer, it goes over the air, just like you can update your unit up to your phone over the air today. If you changing your operating system, it's the same idea. You can do this without having to have a computer or having to plug cable in,   Stacey Simms  22:24 do you need a doctor's prescription for changes? Or is that a change by change? I would assume there might be?   Sean Salmon  22:30 Yeah, it depends on the change. So if you're talking about, you know, a security patch, you don't need a prescription for that, if you're talking about moving to the next algorithm, like the difference from 770 to 780 is really an algorithm change. It's the same hardware platform that would require a prescription.   Stacey Simms  22:45 So let's talk about the 780 which is the I assume this is the next thing in the pipeline and following the numbers.   Sean Salmon  22:52 Yes, so we we have released the adult data for the 780G, which at is about the algorithm now at the American Diabetes Association began this year virtually. And really, there's a couple of differences here. What this device does now is it takes the Ability Beyond just basal insulin, but also to bolus where you can the situation where there's rising glucose, the algorithm can bolus every five minutes to control. Somebody maybe missed a meal bolus, so they miscalculated how many carbs they ate, for example, and blood sugar still rising, we can predict where it's going to go both correct it without stacking up insulin. So what all that means is we can drive better time and range when there's there's missed boluses or miss calculations on carb counting. That's one big difference. The other big difference is the target that you set these two, so you can set a target, as you may know, on the 670 G, the target you can set is 120, we can still set a 120 target on this algorithm. But we can also set that target of 100. And the clinical results that we showed, were clear that you could take the target lower without increasing the risk of hypoglycemia. In fact, it was so numerically lower rate of hypoglycemia. So this, this algorithm, I think really gives a lot more freedom. And that's, I think the biggest thing that we were looking for all these are great, you know, time and range, we've been leading that the industry and being able to provide the best time and range, but the user experience got a lot better. And a lot of it had to do with alerts and alarms and all the things that we did. And I think To put it simply, there was a belief as the first hybrid closer algorithm out there, that whenever something goes awry, that you should kick somebody out of what was called auto mode and have them go confirm something with like a finger stick. Because I think the belief at the time was that you know, you can't trust his algorithms take care of somebody, and a person is better off better able to manage their diabetes than a machine. And I think that was probably a fallacy. As it turns out the algorithm that what we change here is we just aren't kicking people out. We are waking people up in the middle of night do things the algorithm pretty good at smoothing things out without causing any new troubles prevention. So a lot of that, I think out of abundance of caution safety alerts, kicking people out asking for fingerstick calibrations was unnecessary. And we're seeing a big reduction in all of that and very high satisfaction among the people in a clinical trial. And we've launched it in a limited way in Europe so far, and feedback has been really tremendous. This is a very big improvement of what we had been offering a couple   Stacey Simms  25:25 of just questions for clarity, Sean , the you're talking about the algorithm in the 780? Right, the 770?   Sean Salmon  25:32 Yes, that? No, that's 770 is basically the 670 algorithm. The big difference is really that indication of age, as well as the the ability to upgrade   Stacey Simms  25:44 software. If you want a pump right now that you can then upgrade when the new 780 algorithm is available. It's got to be the 770 you can't upgrade. Yes,   Sean Salmon  25:54 yes, you're correct. Okay.   Stacey Simms  25:56 Um, to that end, just again, just to clarify, are there other ranges you can set? Is it totally customizable down to 100? Or is it 120, or 100.   Sean Salmon  26:06 So you can choose, you can choose either target, but you can adjust other settings like the part ratio like insulin sensitivity factor. So there's some customization that can get there. And we ran, I think, three clinical trials. And we're currently doing what we call a continued access study in the US where we're trying to optimize those settings, to make sure that we can get the very best experience for people with the pump. And I think what we've learned is there's a lot of these other settings that we can give more help to the endocrinologists to be able to set those but right now, those settings are, are the endocrinologist job to go fix, we can give them suggestions. But the user themselves can't make those adjustments as easily.   Stacey Simms  26:46 Wait, I'm confused. The endo can make some changes, but the users can't.   Sean Salmon  26:50 Yeah, so there's certain things again, it's about making sure that people are safe, where we could recommend changes, or the algorithms can change things along the way. But there are certain settings like these carb ratios and everything else that need to be dialed in. Yeah, but   Stacey Simms  27:03 the user can do that. Right. I don't have to bring the pump to my endocrinologist and say, I Well,   Sean Salmon  27:07 they can, but they should they should make sure that you're talking to   Stacey Simms  27:11 Got it, yes, no, no with it with the guidance of an endocrinologist, but you're not going to make me get a prescription to change my carb ratio.   Sean Salmon  27:17 No, no, no, I think it's just that we can really fine tune the system. But rather than experimenting on yourself, I think we can give some help to know what are the optimal settings for you. And that's know something we call personalized closed loop is, we could do that automatically in the background without anybody talking to anybody. That's one of our future pipeline projects, we can also tell you from the history of your glucose and insulin data, how you can get a little bit better precision for somebody. And I think that's what we're trying to do on the carelink side of things. Here's the ability to really dial this in the right way. I think that for some endocrinologist, that's not going to be helpful, right? They're very, very good at this to do it all the time. And then there's others who don't really have large type one populations. And they could use a little bit of light called the teachers edition of the textbook, to help them make sure that they're doing the best for patients.   Stacey Simms  28:08 I think that sounds wonderful. I just think, you know, this podcast audience is a little bit different, or I shouldn't, it's a lot different. This is an incredibly well educated audience that is going to get a pump like this, and mess around with it themselves at home and see how much they can change it. In fact, as you know, part of this audience is going to physically try to probably break into the pump and see what they can do with it. So I know you can comment on that you don't have to comment on it. But that's why my hackles went up when you said the endocrinologist can, but I get what you're saying for the vast majority of people with diabetes, the endocrinologist or even their general practitioner, which is different story altogether, is really going to be the guiding hand here. Just another question you mentioned with the 780. The change from, you know waking people up kicking out of auto mode, fewer calibrations, is that really in the works in terms of fewer or no calibrations or that's a hope for a future sensor?   Sean Salmon  28:58 No, that's absolutely in the works for the sensors. So we we have a product in that's complete as clinical trial and other ones very close to doing that. That eliminates or vastly reduces fingerstick calibrations? And then yeah, so it depends on the regulatory claims that we make on that specific device. And then we have two others in the pipeline that absolutely eliminate finger sticks altogether. Now, that doesn't mean that you know, if you get a reading, it doesn't make sense to you that you shouldn't go confirm it, the glucose, the blood glucose, then calibrate No, no perfect sensor. But yeah, our algorithm itself that goes into 770 cuts down by about half the number of requests for finger sticks with the same sensor. And then when we change the sensor, we can, we can largely eliminate that unless there's something that needs to be confirmed, because the reading doesn't make sense.   Stacey Simms  29:53 So is the hope that the 780G would launch with, I hate to compare it to Dexcom but let's just go ahead and do that. Cuz that's what we're all talking about here anyway, obviously, most people who use a Dexcom understand that it's not infallible, you do have to double check, sometimes, you know, you'll get a sensor error when it doesn't understand what the you know what it's getting the information that it's taking in, it'll stop working, that kind of thing. So is the hope to launch the 780G system with a sensor that's comparable to what I just described.   Sean Salmon  30:20 So it's gonna depend on where you are in the world. But the 780 is going to be compatible with past and future sensors. So you know that they may be on different timelines. And we really try to think about this like it's a system to so we've got the pump, we've got the algorithm, we've got that sensor. And the other thing we have is the tubing set and reservoir. And there's another innovation we're bringing that allows you to extend the use of that on label of that tubing set from the typical two to three days. At the seven days. We call that the extended wear infusion said that's also known as clinical trial. And the goal is to have that also compatible then 780G algorithm. So the algorithm that's on that pump, which can have all that connectivity Vantage can work with this current and future pipeline of sensors, and be upgradeable on the infusion set is all sort of in a suite of what we're trying to bring together.   Stacey Simms  31:14 Well, Boy, am I glad you brought that up. Because I have said for years, and my son has been using an insulin pump for I don't know, 13 years now that the inset is the weak link of pumping. And I know, you know, a couple years ago, we were all excited about the BD flow was supposed to be this the latest and greatest, it didn't work out so well. So that went away. Can you tell us a little bit about what you found? When I hear longer? Where insets? I think, Oh, my gosh, you know, we've all been warned about infection and scarring and don't use the same site for that long. What are you finding?   Sean Salmon  31:47 No, it's a really good question. And you know, what is it that's so magical about it? How do you get to extend it? And without getting too much detail to the simple answer is that things that are in insulin to keep it from going bad, the preservatives, if you will, are behind a lot of that sort of site reactions that you get. So we're able to take that stuff out and have just filtered insulin if you will deliver to the site. And that's really the magic behind getting extension of abuse. And you know, we did a study where we, we measured this and about 80% of the study participants were able to get seven days your body is going to react a little differently being who you are. You see that with CGM, right? Some people can wear those things for two weeks, and other people can't. Because their body's more aggressive at attacking that foreign body response, just by comparison, for three days, which was our control arm 70% of people got to three days, right? So we've got a higher proportion of people able to make it seven days, we think it's largely due to getting out those preservatives that are the insulin to keep it fresh.   Stacey Simms  32:50 That's fascinating. It's simple as a filter. I've always thought that yeah,   Sean Salmon  32:54 it's not it's no, it's also your insulin is a very sensitive molecule too sensitive to temperatures, you know, and it's also sensitive to you know, how it's contained in the reservoir. So our rigid reservoir system doesn't like mechanically damage the molecule either. So that's, you know, an advantage that we've always had with our reservoir design, then you add to this, the ability to filter out the preservatives, and you get this extension to where so you can preserve a lot of insulin, use a little more judiciously, and of course produced it. You know, the difficulty of having to change your set every day. Maybe it's a fusion set Sunday, you change it once a week, and maybe same time of changing your your sensor as well. Who knows?   Stacey Simms  33:34 Well, I think that would be pretty amazing to have a longer wear inset. That works. Because a lot of people have trouble as you said, getting to three days. Yes. One of the big questions that came up in with my listeners when I told them I was talking to you, and we've covered most of them. But one of the big questions came up was Medicare, in terms of this technology is great. Will it be covered? Can you speak to that at all?   Sean Salmon  33:53 Which which part of Medicare you asked about? Are you asking about the Well, let's talk Yeah, more of a?   Stacey Simms  33:59 Well, I think the real question is everything. But let's talk about the the system. As you mentioned, you talked about it as a system, the 780 will the system be covered? Or will it be piecemeal?   Sean Salmon  34:09 Yeah. So the rules of Medicare are really around the designation of the sensor, can you make a claim of what's called non adjunctive, meaning that you know, you don't you don't have to confirm the CGM ruling before you dose insulin. So when you're 64 years old, and your pre medic quick care and you're on like a 670 g system today, your commercial insurance pays for the sensors, the tubing sets, the reservoirs, of course, did initial investment in the pump. When you turn 65 and you move to Medicare, you no longer can get the Guardian sensor paid for because we don't have that designation. For Non exempt. They've even though it's clearly driving the pump all day long every day. So we have to get that labeled claim for the sensors for everything to be covered. And that's what we're trying to do right now with the Guardian sensors and of course, the future pipelines. themselves. But like I think it's a, there's a couple different efforts on that. But it is a little bit of an idiosyncratic thing that that exists in Medicare itself, just the way the payment law works. And we're trying to get that changed,   Stacey Simms  35:14 has COVID, delayed studies, submissions, things like that for you, while   Sean Salmon  35:19 at the branch of the Food and Drug Administration that regulates diabetes face is also involved in a lot of things COVID related, including like the in vitro diagnostic testing, and that sort of stuff. So yes, I'd say on the medical reviewer side, in particular, there's been just a difficulty for them to service all the kind of pre market or new devices that are coming through while doing this difficult work of making sure that all the COVID tests and things related to that are done. So yeah, there's been something that has been a little bit challenging. And of course, in the clinical trial environment, we actually had a couple of trials going on during COVID. And some of them have gone pretty well. Honestly, I think people are stuck at home and not willing to participate the trial. It's not been like that. In other parts of Medtronic, we've got a lot of the hospital based studies have been very difficult and highly impacted by understandably, people's fear of going to a hospital for for anything right now is pretty high. So I'd say it's been a mix. Like we've had really good collaborative conversations with FDA making sure that we streamline and make it as simple as possible as we submit new dossiers. But there is really a constraint at that medical reviewer level that's been, you know, difficult for the entire industry.   Stacey Simms  36:35 You've been so generous with your time. I really appreciate it. I just have one more question for you here. And that's about tide pool, about a year ago, maybe more now, Medtronic and tide pool announced that they'd be working together on a, you know, a future interoperable, closed loop. And it would be a separate system from the seven at any update on that.   Sean Salmon  36:55 Yeah, we're worth continuing to work with tidepool. There's a joint steering committee that we participate in. Our goal here is to create a Ace designated pump that runs the tide pool algorithm. But yeah, that collaboration is ongoing. We're working well with them. But I don't really have an update on that.   Stacey Simms  37:13 Well, Sean , I really appreciate it. There's so much going on. Do you know to talk about and thanks for keeping us straight with the numbers and everything else. I hope you come back on and you know, continue to explain all of these developments. But I really appreciate it. Sean , thank you so much for spending so much time with me for sure.   Unknown Speaker  37:28 Thank you, Stacey.   Announcer  37:35 You're listening to Diabetes Connections with Stacey Simms.   Stacey Simms  37:41 We talked about a lot of stuff there. There is a lot more information as always over at Diabetes connections.com. You can learn more on the episode homepage about everything that Sean talked about. I'll link up some stuff to Medtronic into some other studies. I said a couple of weeks ago, there's something about September, October. It's like all summer long. Yeah, we have the ADA and we have the different conferences. But then every year at this time, I feel like oh, it's kind of slow, nothing's happening. And then I get all the tech companies in the fall. So I'm excited to continue to bring you as much information as I can. I have more interviews coming up. We just talked to Dexcom. I'll also be talking to Abbott. I'd love to get Omni pod that folks from Insulet back on here. So we'll we'll see what we can do. But in the weeks to come. definitely let me know if there's particular technology you want to hear more about. I love talking to these companies. It's always fun to get a kind of a peek under the hood. And I like hearing the voices and the stories of the people who are in charge of this stuff. I appreciate them coming on not everybody does you know that but it's great when they can answer your questions. And I love doing that. So let me know if you want to hear from and let me know what you want to know. All right innovations in just a moment with that once a week basal insulin that's being tested. We'll we'll talk about that. But first diabetes Connections is brought to you by Dexcom. And when you have a toddler diagnosed with type one, you hear rumblings for a long time about the teen years when it hit us full force a little early. I was so glad we had Dexcom you know Benny's insulin needs. I've shared this. They started going way up around age 11. And when I say way up, I know some of you parents out there with little ones think maybe we increased by point two or something like that, because I remember those days Benny's first basal rate was 0.025. That's how much basically got an hour. But by the time between ages 10 and 12, his basal rates doubled. And between 12 and 13, they doubled again. So along with the hormone swings, I really can't imagine managing diabetes during this crazy time. Without the Dexcom continuous glucose monitoring system. We can react more quickly to highs and lows. see trends adjust insulin doses with advice from our endocrinologist. I know using the Dexcom g six has helped improve Benny's A1C and overall health. And by the way, he's almost 16 and those insulin needs have already started going down. This is wild. If your glucose alerts and readings from the G six do not match symptoms or expectations. Use a blood glucose meter To make diabetes treatment decisions to learn more, just go to Diabetes connections.com and click on the Dexcom logo.   Innovations this week, a once weekly, basal insulin. This is something that was announced earlier this summer. I don't know about you, but it's snuck by me It was announced at the ADA Scientific Sessions, Novo Nordisk announced that a once weekly insulin Icodec had performed as well as Lantus in a 26 week trial. Now, this particular study was done with people with type two diabetes. But before you dismiss it, there has already been a trial of people with type one diabetes, and novo expects to submit and get this and hopefully FDA approved for people with type one and type two diabetes, I couldn't find a lot of information about the previous trial with type one, there is another one that completed over the summer, hopefully, they'll release the information on that maybe some of you who are more savvy in the ways of clinical trials can dig it up the Can you imagine once a week basal insulin, I mean, obviously, the benefits of that would be incredible. And also thinking about it for people who like to go untethered using basal insulin from an injection along with an insulin pump, which is something we did for two years. And even with control iq and you know, more advanced hybrid closed loops. Just talking to Medtronic about there's, I know a few people who like to use untethered with it, who find that there's just something about getting that always constant, steady, basal insulin smooths everything out. And certainly when you get into the enormous elephant doses that Benny was taking for a while, it helped tremendously to take that load off of the pump. I mean, between his weight loss and you come in at a puberty and I know he loves when I talk about this stuff, his insulin needs have come down incredibly, and certainly to the point where we didn't need to stay on untethered, but I think it's fantastic, it's a great option to have and once a week, basal insulin makes that a lot better. So I will keep you posted if I find out more about the type one trial, but is called insulin Icadec. If you have something for innovations, please let me know this can be a hack that you thought up a tip or trick something with technology or new influence. You can always email me Stacey at Diabetes connections.com. I mentioned Benny's 504 Review earlier in the show. And that happens later this week. He's also got an endo appointment this week. lots going on. I don't think the endo appointments going to be too exciting, hopefully. But you know, we do check in every quarter. And I think to mix it up, my husband is going to take him this time. Slade rarely goes to the endo usually because he's working in busy and and it's been on me for the last couple of years, which I love to do. I really like catching up with our endocrinologist who's become a friend. But I think I'll let the boys go. And gosh, you know, another reason not to go. I'm looking at making sure my door is closed. So Benny can't hear me. You know, the kid has this permit, and he's gonna be getting his driver's license if he passes in January. And I know Slade will let him drive to Charlotte, which is like a 40 minute drive. So he can do that. I don't need that stress of sitting in the front seat and putting the mom's seat belt right throwing my arm out, which I cannot believe I do. But I've done it with both of my kids. Oh, I remember my mother doing that clear as day. I don't even know if they're doing driving tests here. They haven't been. I know plenty of kids who got their licenses this year, because of COVID. They're not actually giving them a driving test. They're just saying, oh, did you do your hours? Alright, here's your license. And it's a graduated system here in North Carolina. So they can't get their afternoons they can't drive at night until they take an actual driving test. I don't mind goodness. All right. So let's keep you posted and updated on next week. We'll see how much he lets me share. Thank you so much to my editor John Bukenas from audio editing solutions. Thank you so much for listening. Don't forget if you want the free audio book, email me Stacey at Diabetes connections.com subject line audio book, and the first two will get that promo code. Thanks so much for listening. I'll see you back here next week. Until then, be kind to yourself.   Benny  44:03 Diabetes Connections is a production of Stacey Simms Media. All rights reserved. All wrongs avenged

For All Abilities – The Podcast Liz De La Torre - A Successful Nursing Career with ADHD   For this episode of For All Abilities: The Podcast, I spoke with Liz De La Torre - one of my son’s nurses. She talks about her nursing career and ADHD.  To connect with Henry, please email her at liz.torre60@gmail.com.    Please subscribe to For All Abilities – The Podcast! Please follow me on Instagram @forallabilities, LinkedIn (Betsy Furler) and on Facebook (For All Abilities). Go to our website www.forallabilities.com for information on our software that enables employers to support their employees with ADHD, Dyslexia, Learning Differences and Autism. Thanks for listening!  Betsy     Thanks for listening to For All Abilities today!    Share the podcast with your friends, they’ll thank you for it!   Get our newsletter and stay up to date! The newsletter link is on our website www.forallabilities.com   Follow me   Twitter: @betsyfurler   Instagram: @forallabilities   Facebook: @forallabilites   LinkedIn: @BetsyFurler   Website: www.forallabilities.com   Transcription by Otter.ai   Betsy Furler  0:05   Welcome to for all abilities, the podcast. This is your host, Betsy Furler. The aim of this podcast is to highlight the amazing things people with ADHD, dyslexia, learning differences and autism are doing to improve our world. Have a listen to for all abilities, the podcast and please subscribe on whatever podcast app you're listening to us on. Hi, everybody. This is Betsy, your host for all abilities. Thank you so much for joining me today on my podcast. This podcast is meant to inspire everyone to use all of their differences as their strengths. And we frequently talk about neuro diversity and how it's so important to have different brains in this world. Today I have a special guest, Liz della toray hopefully I said that correctly, Liz, please introduce yourself to my audience.   Liz de la Torre  1:05   Hi, I'm Liz de la Torre. And I am 60 years old. I've been a nurse for 37 years. And I have been ADHD actually since I was 21 years old. So 49 years 39 long time.   Betsy Furler  1:24   Awesome. And we met, um, because you have been my son, Henry's nurse, several multiple times. And we got started talking and I was so glad that you agreed to be on the podcast. And so I guess I gave people a little bit of a teaser that you're a nurse professionally, but we'll get to that in a minute. And so tell us what were you like when you were a little girl?   Liz de la Torre  1:48   So when I was little, I went to Catholic schools and it was just strict girls school nuns only, and I never could sit still back then there wasn't a day diagnosis of and so I was always getting spanked, pinched ears cold, you got ants in your pants, that kind of situation. And I would try, you know, super hard to just sit down and pay attention but I couldn't because I was my mind was going elsewhere and I needed to get up. So it was that kind of thing. I'm home. It was pretty. I had an older brother. He was nine years older than me and it was kind of like, he was also in a private school. But he would poke at me, I think, I guess he knew, you know that something. I couldn't sit sit still or whatever it was that he would always poke at me and get me in trouble with my parents. Especially. Yeah,   Betsy Furler  2:52   you spent a lot of time in trouble. It sounds like   Liz de la Torre  2:55   I did. I did and it was like, as hard as I would try. Boom, you get it.   Betsy Furler  3:02   Right, you just couldn't make your body do fit into the box of what they wanted you to how they wanted you to behave. Correct. So what about when you got on to middle school in high school?   Liz de la Torre  3:16   Okay, so middle school and high school the same kind of situations with the nuns. And, you know, once you're in middle school, there was it wasn't like we have normal schools now I kind of just float into the next one and then it flowed into high school. But it was pretty much the same thing. grades, I could make super good grades without even studying. But if I didn't care to do it, I would just kind of you know breeze through it because like I said, My mind was going 50,000 miles a minute, and I didn't understand what was the deal. Why didn't everybody else think in speed version like I did.   Betsy Furler  3:57   Did you go to the same school for 12 years or were you did you move at each different level?   Liz de la Torre  4:04   So much amount Sacred Heart, which was the elementary school and I went there through sixth grade. And then seventh grade at Incarnate Word. This was in San Antonio Incarnate Word open their seventh and eighth grade. So that's where I went seventh through 12th grade.   Betsy Furler  4:23   Okay. Okay, so it's kind of same feeder pattern, so to speak, but different schools. So, what did you think? Well, let me ask you about homework, first of all, because I, as I've interviewed so many people, homework seems to have been a big issue for people, lots of people with ADHD. How did you do with homework?   Liz de la Torre  4:44   No, my homework I had was impeccable. I would, I would do it all the time. And I wanted my homework to be perfect. It had to be. I actually we were laughing the other day at work. Because, um, my grandmother taught me how to write and she would take erasers off the big pencils. Well, my brother came home one day and he was bothering me. I was writing my ABCs and he said, What are you doing? Then I kept saying, I'm writing, I'm writing and he pushed my arm so my pencil went across the paper. Ultimately, I was ruining my paper. The man died with the red mark in his in his eye.   Unknown Speaker  5:26   Literally.   Betsy Furler  5:27   Hey, I think a lot of us have scars still from pencils been poked out. Yeah, he definitely deserved that. And well, that's interesting about the homework. So why do you think the homework was easier for you to concentrate on than the schoolwork?   Liz de la Torre  5:45   I don't know. Maybe it was maybe it was because I was in my own environment. Maybe it was because somebody wasn't telling me constantly your back your or pinching at me or poking at me or doing something to me. Maybe that's what it was. I really don't know.   Betsy Furler  6:03   Did you do homework in silence? Or did you have like background noise and things like that?   Liz de la Torre  6:09   No, I always had to have and looking back on it now. I've always had to have some kind of noise. Music mainly going on background.   Betsy Furler  6:20   I went homework versus in the school setting.   Unknown Speaker  6:25   I never thought about it.   Betsy Furler  6:29   That's interesting. So after high school, what did you do?   Liz de la Torre  6:32   So I went to college, um, high school was a blow off. It was a party time for me. And so when my parents were moving from San Antonio, they both retired when I graduated. And oddly enough, they were moving from San Antonio to Houston to retire. Um, so I wanted to stay in San Antonio because I had just gotten a new little boyfriend and all that good stuff. So my main focus, my main thing is I told my dad, I want to go to college. And he looked at me like, it was extremely demeaning. And he said to me, You need to marry one of our rich friend sons. Why would you go to school, college after high school? And I was like, because, you know, high school to me, a C and A d when I got in high school, that was great. I was passing   Unknown Speaker  7:21   too bad. Right? Right. So   Liz de la Torre  7:23   he looked at me and he said, Okay, I'm gonna let you stay. one semester. What do you want to be? A nurse just popped into my head, and I said, and he said, a nurse, you want to be a nurse? I said, Yeah, I want to be a nurse. So he said, Okay, one semester, we're gonna see how it goes. So he got we got an apartment. I had a car, paid for my school. Dean's list for five semesters.   Betsy Furler  7:55   Wow. Where did you go to nursing school.   Liz de la Torre  7:58   I went to see Antonio College for the first two semesters because I think he wanted to see if his money was gonna be spent or not. And then I went to UTSA. And so, at the end of that, it was time it was gonna be time to go into nursing school because I'd gotten all my, you know, I gotten all my academics and stuff down. And so he and my mother came down. And this is a this is about when I went to and I got diagnosed. And they asked me, my dad asked me, so do you like your apartment? And I was like, Yes. Do you like your car? Well, yes. And finally, he looked at me like I was some kind of dumbbell. And he said, Do you like to eat? I said, Well, yeah, of course I do. And he said, then you're gonna have to get a job. Like, get a job for why he said, Well, if you want to stay in Houston, San Antonio, you're gonna have to pay for all your stuff. Or you can come to Houston. And I was like, Are you serious? He said I am. So I had to pack up and I came to Houston and during a physical for enlisted in a during a physical for nursing school. That's when it came up about because I started noticing in math and statistics I could memorize, like series of numbers and keep it. Uh huh. And it was like, What do you call it when you can? Like photographic memory, I can do it. My son can do it, oddly enough, too. But it was eat. That's what a nursing school was extremely easy because I could read the testing material the night before, go to sleep. Wake up and I could see the page. So it was like, great. There it is. But they did diagnose me at the time. It was something before Adderall that they gave me. I forgot what it was. But it started making me calm down. But what it really did is it made me be able to put things like in sequences so I could understand stuff.   Betsy Furler  10:12   I went through I said, I said before you were kind of you had a great memory so you're able to just regurgitate that material. Correct? Excuse me, but not necessarily and comprehend and, and synthesize everything together.   Liz de la Torre  10:28   I think I could I Well, I'm sure I could comprehend because of my grades and everything. But what I started to do is I think it was things that really interested me that I can stop for a minute and pay attention. And there you go, there it is.   Betsy Furler  10:50   Yes, and I think nursing is such a great career for people with ADHD because it's so it's fast paced, and then it's always something different. You know, Like you have all these different patients with all these different conditions, having, you know, in your current job setting different, you know, different treatments being done. So, it's got to be more exciting than some other, you know, a desk job or whatever. Right. So after you were diagnosed, what kind? what difference did that make for you?   Liz de la Torre  11:23   It's almost as Um,   Unknown Speaker  11:27   so   Liz de la Torre  11:29   I could concentrate more. I could effectively do things like so. When I would stay when I go to start cleaning a house, I'd be in the kitchen. Then I would go to Oh, I remember there's there's a glass in the bathroom. Let me go get it did not start cleaning the bathroom, you know, and it was like, and then the   Unknown Speaker  11:51   planes   Liz de la Torre  11:51   cracked in the bathroom, you know, it just wasn't completed. So once I started getting medicine, it was like, I could Concentrate and know I can't go there. I need to stay here and complete this task. Uh huh. Was it? You know, Betsy, when I'm thinking about it with work, I could complete stuff. And I don't know. I don't know. Maybe like I said, maybe it was just because there was a big interest there. Right.   Betsy Furler  12:21   Right. warehouse workers say is boring anyway. It's   Liz de la Torre  12:25   not a big interest. Right? Yeah.   Betsy Furler  12:30   So how did it help your self esteem to be diagnosed? Or or did it did it help?   Liz de la Torre  12:37   I think as far as my self esteem, I don't. I don't think it helped that. I think it helped me understand that. When I was a little kid, I really wasn't a bad kid. I just really couldn't sit still. There's just too many things going on and I was just wired different.   Betsy Furler  13:00   It kind of explained it. You were able to understand yourself better. Probably correct. Yeah. So then after you got out of out of nursing school, where did you What do you didn't end up doing?   Liz de la Torre  13:12   So when I was first a nurse, I became, it was an odd year. So I graduated nursing school. I got married. I got I got pregnant, and I passed my boards. Wow. Yeah. Easy year. Yeah. And so my first job was at Methodist and in labor and delivery, and I really loved it really, really loved it. But once again, when I got pregnant, I quit taking my medicine. So I was learning about labor and delivery. And I couldn't I couldn't grasp how to how to figure out how many centimeters do they dilated because it's kind of like I was concentrating on too many things. They're finally it snapped, I got everything. And it just kind of like all fell into place. When it happened, you know, once I started understanding, but now I was really having to control my thoughts because and you know, in my mind because it was racing. Mm hmm. There was nothing to settle it down. So it was kind of like me having to talk me down. Interesting because once I kind of, I guess I got a taste of the good, or the right wife, you know how it's really supposed to be? Uh huh. And then when it got taken away from me when I got pregnant, it was like, Oh, no, here we go again. Mm hmm. But now I think I was getting I was like, 24 now 20 Yeah. 24 And so now, I was kind of getting used to or starting to understand how to talk through it and in with me in my mind. And yeah, kind of like myself,   Betsy Furler  15:05   you were able to coach yourself through it this summer. So how do you think that HD has hindered you and then also helped you in your career?   Liz de la Torre  15:20   So, I can't, I really can't see that it's hindered me so much. Because I've done a lot in my career. I was the nurse have been taught in the emergency room. Um, and you know, there, you're having to triage excitement. Yeah. I know, you know, you're having to triage and you're having to keep stuff. This goes here and this goes there. And so I think it really helped me. A lot of and after that a lot of my jobs. They've been, like the nurse manager for home health, always with infusion. Mm hmm. I've always had to, you know, once again, triage what's important who's got to be seen. Where are we going? What part of the city? And then if there weren't nurses, I had to, you know, I'd have to jump in and go see patients. Mm hmm. And then come home and do my come back and do my desk job. So it was, I can't say it's hindered me.   Betsy Furler  16:21   It sounds like it sounds like nursing, you somehow just fell into a job that's perfect for you.   Liz de la Torre  16:31   I think so. I mean, it's always like, like you said, it's a fast pace. Everybody's different, you know, from what we're treating now. As opposed to you know how it was before when we were doing home health. there was all kinds of antibiotics off TPN the total parental nutrition stuff I used to I was one of five in the city who used to put picc lines in at the very beginning when picc lines came out. Uh huh. So that was kind of cool because you get called, you know, can you go do a picc line,   Betsy Furler  17:04   blah, blah, and you go, right, right. And then that was also probably kind of good for you. I know with myself, I'm not diagnosed with ADHD, but I definitely like a variety of different activities. And if I had a desk job, it's kind of what I'm doing now, because I'm doing everything from home. But then occasionally, I'll get to go do something. And it's like, just having that change of scenery occasionally, I think is so helpful for just not getting bored and refocusing and everything.   Liz de la Torre  17:36   Correct. And I think if I would have had to stay home in the midst of it and when it first started all this the COVID I don't think I would have done well. I would have gone nuts. Yeah, because it was just   Betsy Furler  17:52   Yeah, that's a great topic to discuss here because we are still you know, most of us are still staying home. You've gotten to go to work or had to Get to work however you want to frame that. And yeah, so, um, let's talk a little bit about COVID and stay at home. How do you think you? What do you think would have happened if you had to stay at home and you weren't an essential worker?   Liz de la Torre  18:17   Well, I know what happened on the weekends.   I frequented the garden center and Lowe's almost every Saturday and Sunday and have a nice garden outside. I just couldn't do it. I wouldn't be able to just stay home. Uh huh.   Betsy Furler  18:37   Well, that's awesome. much weight. I've lost 25 pounds over the stay at home order because I started walking and then subsequently running because I can't stay in my house all day, every day and on the you know, it's like when there's nothing else to do. It's like at least I can walk around the neighborhood. Oh,   Liz de la Torre  18:57   yeah. I couldn't do it. wouldn't have been able to do it.   Betsy Furler  19:02   Yeah, that's really interesting. My husband also has ADHD. And he's also considered essential because he's in construction and as a general contractor, and I think it's saved. It's saved him. I think he would have he, you know, it's been very hard on him anyway. And I think it really would have been awful if he wouldn't have been able to get to work at all.   Liz de la Torre  19:23   That's correct. That's so right. Yeah. Oh, my God, it would have been dreadful.   Betsy Furler  19:31   And he probably would have driven everyone around you crazy.   Liz de la Torre  19:35   I would have my husband is one that can sit on the couch and watch TV. And it's like, how can you do that? Do you not have a bedsore yet?   Oh my god.   Betsy Furler  19:50   So and it seems like at the infusion center that y'all have stayed pretty busy the whole time that it hasn't really changed workload or anything.   Liz de la Torre  20:01   We got a little slower than we are right now only because of the chairs. Oh,   Betsy Furler  20:08   that was it. Essential distance between the chairs. Right, right.   Liz de la Torre  20:12   We should really have like, I think it's 18 or 19 chairs right now. But, you know, we're only using 13. Yeah, in a pinch, it's really should be 12. But in a pinch, we have another one. But we've stayed busy and we're getting super busy right now.   Betsy Furler  20:32   And that's also great for the patients because one of my big fears when all of this was starting was that Henry wasn't going to be able to get as big. And, you know, it was like, it really scared me. So I'm just so thankful that that it's the infusion center has stayed open, and it's been he's gotten his infusion every three weeks just like normal work. Yeah, I was so nervous that first time he went In about what it was going to be like, what, how many things was he going to touch between the front doors and hitting the infusion center? About the infusion center itself because, you know, I know how clean and careful y'all are. But I was worried about how many things he might touch on the way in and, but I now know that it's like, pretty, it's pretty streamline. There's nobody else in the elevator for the most part. And it's been great. So I'm so thankful that he's that, that y'all have kept on working and he's been able to get his infusions.   Liz de la Torre  21:35   And I'm so happy to see that he does bring scout with them, because then he can have the private room. Right? That's, that's the benefit. And that's a good thing, although we all love Scout, but the good thing is, he can stay in his room. Right? He can watch TV or he can do whatever he pleases, and I sneak in snacks and that's how it goes.   Betsy Furler  22:00   Yeah, it's been great. It's it's been his one thing one time to get out of the house too.   Unknown Speaker  22:05   So, right.   Betsy Furler  22:07   Well, Liz, thank you so much for being a wonderful guest and telling us your story and may and might inspire other people to look into nursing as a career if they have ADHD.   Liz de la Torre  22:19   I enjoyed it. I mean, it's been 37 years and I've never regretted   Betsy Furler  22:24   a damn. And it's a that does, you can do all sorts of different things like you are studying move on to move on to another one. So and how and   Liz de la Torre  22:36   when you think Ben Toby er has finally weighed on your mind. Go? Yeah, right. Next place.   Betsy Furler  22:44   One of our another one of our favorite nurses is actually working in benchtop er right now she was. She was the nurse that really saved Henry's life when he had his big psychotic event with autoimmune encephalitis. She was a ER nurse. At the hospital that we went to, and he totally saved to his she took a boy's life. And now she's been havin she's really enjoying the fast pace over there right now to Uh huh.   Liz de la Torre  23:13   Oh, Sam.   Are you talking about Sam?   Betsy Furler  23:18   No, um, no, her name is Lacey. Okay, so she's Yeah, so she was at Memorial city Memorial Hermann, when Henry had his big events, and he sat with him and when he was psychotic, she was she and I were the only people that could keep him calm. It was about her. I guess it was miraculous.   Liz de la Torre  23:41   Yes. He told me she saved his life.   Betsy Furler  23:44   Yeah, she did. She's She's incredible. And oh, my goodness, nurses have been really so important throughout his life. So important. And I know he wouldn't be here without so many nurses that we've covered. Across over the years, so But she's ever been to VR and she's really like, it's I think she's thriving even through all this COVID stuff. I think she's happy to be there and in the chaos,   Liz de la Torre  24:14   I think it can be really rewarding.   It really can, you know, it's got its crazy moments. And then you've got your moments where you say, What am I doing here? But there's a lot of good things about it, that there's so many people that you can help there.   Betsy Furler  24:32   Well, in one, we met a doctor who works at Ben Tom at an autoimmune encephalitis event that we went to about a year ago. And he was telling me, he said, you know, it's the best place to be when you have something like autoimmune encephalitis, because we don't have to worry about what your insurance is going to pay or not pay. That's true. Go for it. And I was like, Yeah, that's a good that's. I hadn't ever thought of it that way. Because of course, It's so scary to have to go to a county hospital and be in the midst of all of that. But I thought, wow, that that is true. That is very, very true.   Liz de la Torre  25:10   So soon as you get your diagnosis, and as soon as you are stable, get out, right.   Tell my insurance card. Here you go.   Betsy Furler  25:21   Yeah. Thank you so much for joining me. And if people want to connect with you, what's the best way for them to get in touch with you?   Liz de la Torre  25:28   Um, you can always use my email. It's a Liz.torre60@gmail.com.       Betsy Furler  25:40   Awesome. Thank you for sharing that and thank you for being here.   Liz de la Torre  25:45   Okay, and thank you.   Unknown Speaker  25:47   Thank you, audience for listening in please.   Betsy Furler  25:51   Like, share, and review rate my podcast on whatever podcast app you're listening to. This on. Please follow me on LinkedIn at Betsy Furler. It's f u r le AR, or on Facebook at for all abilities also on Instagram and Twitter at for all abilities. And thanks for tuning in. And please join me again next week for my next interview. Thanks so much for listening to the for all abilities podcast. This is Betsy Furler, your host and I really appreciate your time listening to the podcast. And please subscribe on any podcast app that you're listening to us on. If you'd like to know more about what we do in our software that helps employers support their employees with ADHD dyslexia, learning differences in autism, please go to www dot for all abilities.com You can also follow us on Instagram. And you can follow me on LinkedIn at Betsy Furler. f as in Frank, you are le AR Have a great day and we will see you soon

In this episode of the BTP podcast, Emaad joins Pouya in a free form conversation around topics such as Physics, world currencies, crypto currencies and a decentralized banking system and an idea of world UBI.   Emaad is an Astrophysicist with a passion for technology   Emaad's Social:  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/parachaexplores/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/parachuchutrain LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emaadparacha/   Pouya's Social: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pouyalj/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/pouyalj LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pouyalajevardi/   Episode Transcript:----more----   SUMMARY KEYWORDS currency, layover, canada, people, country, places, digital currencies, saskatchewan, money, picture, ubi, talking, notes, winnipeg, toronto, cryptocurrency, world, research, cryptocurrencies, thought SPEAKERS Pouya LJ, Emaad   Pouya LJ  00:17 Hey, man, how's it going? Good,   Emaad  00:19 man, how are you?   Pouya LJ  00:20 Pretty good, pretty good. We're actually talking off off camera and not camera, but I'm recording about some stuff that is going on with you and your life. And I thought, you know what, it's actually quite interesting. Let's bring it in. Let's bring it in there according. Okay, so for sure. So let's, let's circle back to five minutes before our conversation go to. So you were telling me that you started a massive program? And you were telling the story of how that that happened?   Emaad  00:46 Yeah, for sure. So well, I was in touch with one of my professors, ever since I gave my final for that course, which I, if you remember, I was with you. Yeah. I was taking it with you last year in like, April. And I spoke to the professor and he was interested. And he actually followed up on email as well. And he's like, oh, like, you know, would you be interested in doing research, or a few other courses on side, and I think I discussed that with you as well, last time. Yes. Because it's always a good idea to take some courses, take some courses even after you graduate, because they're gonna help you with, they're gonna help you with your graduate applications. If you have a gap here, you can take one or two courses, put them on your transcript, and that's going to be helpful for you. So I didn't take that route. But I spoke to the professor, I met with him a lot, I read on his research, etc. And eventually, around November, that's when the time came to apply. So I went ahead and applied got a bunch of references. And all I had to do was wait pretty much until March, when I got my when I got my admission. And when I got my, I guess offer from University of Toronto. So right now it's a master's in physics that I'm doing at the University of Toronto. And what I'll be researching on is with Professor Barth, Netherfield, who is a pretty well known Canadian astronomer. And what he does in his lab, and the cool thing is he actually has his own lab. So it's a whole building that's dedicated for him. It's not an office, it's not a room, it's not a lab space. It's a whole building at the University of Toronto, um, I think it's a two storey building, but his his, so at the ground floor is sort of a lab or a huge space lab space. And then there's, there's computers and stuff upstairs. And what he does is he creates telescopes that are as they're trying to be as effective as Hubble. But at a cheaper cost. That's his ultimate goal to create accessible telescopes, accessible space telescopes. And then what he does is he launches them to space on balloons. So he goes to Antarctica, Sudbury or Timmins, Ontario. There's also New Zealand, where he goes, and then he launches them into space. He's trying to be as close to the north and south poles as possible. And what he aims to do is he aims to do similar research that can be done with Hubble, but at a much lesser cost, because you're doing balloon based astronomy. So, you know, you don't have to pay for thousands and thousands of tons of jet fuel to get the telescope up, like Hubble and maintain it with the International Space Station.   Pouya LJ  03:41 Yeah, well, that's, that's super interesting. And so what what got you? I mean, I know you wanted to do some sort of grad school program, but what got you to this specific program? What happened? I will   Emaad  03:55 be honest, I will be 100% honest, I wasn't really planning. I never thought that it would that I would be doing this last year. Especially when we were finishing our undergrad degree. I Well, I was finishing my undergrad degree and you're about to finish. We were taking the courses then. Yeah. And when I finished my last final, I think it was my second last final with you.   Pouya LJ  04:18 Yeah, sorry. My bad.   Emaad  04:19 Yeah, I thought you know what this is it. Like, I'm never gonna touch physics ever again. If you remember correctly, that week was probably the toughest week of our lives.   Pouya LJ  04:30 I I remember,   Emaad  04:33 there was classical mechanics. At at, at what time it was I think 9am 9am to 12pm. And then the next day we had electro mag. electromagnetism. Yeah. From 9am to 10 9am to 12pm. And then we had a one day break. Yeah, and we had general relativity.   Pouya LJ  04:55 Yeah, not not easy courses. Yeah,   Emaad  04:56 not even courses at all. Again from 9am to 12pm. And I honestly thought, you know what this is it like I'm done with everything related to physics. Yeah. And I wanted to, and then I worked in the cloud computing side of things. So I worked for a company called about extreme. And what I did with them was I helped consult for cloud based solutions on Microsoft Azure. And I helped build them as well. So I helped build chatbots, knowledge mining applications, more so towards the AI, more, so the applications that, that use AI, or more specifically Microsoft's own cognitive toolkit. But I was hoping to go more into that field. And I did look into some masters. But to be frank, I didn't have that much guidance. At that time with me, I didn't know which one to go for which one would be best. And I accidentally applied for a research based one. And the problem with that is that you need to have, it's very helpful to have a computer science background, if you want to go into a research based computer science degree. Yeah, that was sort of my mistake. But I did apply for a master's in physics as well. And I thought about it, I thought about whether it's a good idea to do it or not. And it is a one year program. And if I still want to apply for other graduate degrees in computer science, or data science, or artificial intelligence related fields, I can still do that, while I'm finishing up a Master's. So if I'm going to start next year, if I'll have to start a master's in computer science, or data science or something, next year for that might as well get a Master's, get another masters. Over with it, this is not gonna hurt. And it's a research based Master's. So the coolest thing about research based Master's is, most in most universities, in Canada, they pay you to do it, you're not paying anything out of your pocket, your tuition is covered. And on top of that, you're getting money for being a TA you're getting money for being a research assistant, and you're just getting grants. So that's one of the best things about about research based degrees. And this is applicable everywhere, around Canada, at least for whatever research base degree you have, whether it's a PhD or masters, you're going to be getting funding for it may not be obviously as much as you would get if you were doing the job or whatever. But I mean, look on the bright side, you're getting a degree out of it.   Pouya LJ  07:32 No, of course, that makes a lot of sense. Wow, that's a cool, cool, cool story, because we've been in contact through, you know, text messages and whatnot, but we haven't talked for probably over a year now. Yeah, or so. And I think   Emaad  07:49 some more comprehensive talk.   Pouya LJ  07:51 Yeah, like, exactly like catching up and stuff anyways. So. So it was it was a it was a shock to me, because I thought you're you're working for that company, that you were talking about classes. But   Emaad  08:04 the funny thing is, I actually might still be, I'm still debating on whether I should keep it part time or not. Because because of two main reasons. One, it's always important to get work experience. And even though this summer was kind of late for them, because of COVID. So there weren't that many projects coming in. Because our our main clients, the company has been clients are cities and governments in the United States, city government, state governments in the United States. So they've been more focused on COVID binding COVID. And they're less inclined on doing the projects that we've had in pipeline, I see. But now new things are coming up. And it's always exciting to work on these projects. That's that's one main issue. One mean, that's one main reason because there are upcoming projects. And the second thing is to further enhance my own learning. There's new things again, coming up. within Microsoft, Microsoft is releasing new products. And technology is a field where if you're not on top of it, you're gonna fall off the ladder very fast. So it's always better to be on top of it know your stuff. They still pay, they still help with certifications, the company helps it certification. So it's always better to get new certifications, because they also expired. Microsoft certifications expire every two years. So it's always good to have certification stay on top of things so that maybe when the Masters is over, if I don't want to pursue physics, then there's always this option of this option of cloud computing and AI.   Pouya LJ  09:44 No, that's true. That makes a lot of sense under what's good thinking. Thanks. No, no, that's true. Anyways, so we also had something else in actually we had entirely something else in mind to talk about which is fun. It's a, it's fun to talk about different stuff, too. You have some interesting thing going on which you actually got featured on a CBC article, I believe, if I'm not mistaken. Yes. So you like travel? I think a lot of people do. And you travel, you go round, you get their currency. And, you know, like, on the currency, there's typically a picture of something, your monument, a lot of times a monument and you go there with the currency and you take a picture, can you do you want to explain it better than I   Emaad  10:32 did? what you're doing, for sure. So a lot of a lot of listeners would probably know that. What a lot of a lot of different banknotes and a lot of coins, they occasionally have places on them. And that's representative of the country's identity. So if you look at the United States dollars, they'll have different government buildings on them. The five has Lincoln lincoln memorial in DC, the 10 has the US Treasury 20 has White House 50 has the Capitol building, and then 100 has the Independence Hall in Philadelphia. And you know, that's the same for a lot of other countries as well, they occasionally put a place in the country, on their banknotes just as a representative of their own identity representative of their own culture. And what I've been doing, this is a project actually started about, well, it's going to be it's going to be nearly five years, about five years back. And what I wanted to do was I wanted to travel to different places, would that would currencies of those places. So it could be where I'm from, I'm from Pakistan, so I could go, I could go there for Canada, US and other places as well, because a lot of currencies have places on them. So I made a plan to go to those places, travel to those exact spots that are on the currencies of those countries, and then take pictures over there. And it's been five years, I think it's I've taken more than 35 pictures more than 35 at least. And over the course of Yeah, over the course of five years in six countries. If I if my math is not mistaken.   Pouya LJ  12:23 I think you got it. You got it nailed down. Yeah. Well, that's interesting. So what inspired you to do that?   Emaad  12:32 That's, that's always a funny question. Because a lot of people ask that. Yeah. And I feel like part of me feels like, should I just make something up? That sound cool, because, honestly, speaking, there's nothing cool about the inspiration. All I know is like back in, I think five years ago, around November 2015. That's when I went to this place called mind Jotaro, which is in Pakistan. It's, it was part it was ruins from the Indus Valley civilisation, which is one of the three oldest civilizations in the world. Apart from the Egyptian, and I think the Mesopotamian. So that was actually based in around Pakistan, and there's a very big river in Pakistan called the Indus River was based around that. And I went there, and they remember, when I was growing up, I always saw the specific picture in my textbooks in school, and also on the notes. And I always thought about, you know, what a cool place that is, it's basically ruins 5000 year old ruins, or, and, you know, I want to go there and travel and see and see those ruins. And I always saw them on the back of the notes. So when I went there, I was finally able to go there on a family trip. I went there, and I asked the tour guide, I had an old 20 rupee note, which actually has its picture on it. And I went to, I went to the tour guide, and I was like, Hey, where was this picture taken? He took me to the exact spot. And I took a picture of it. And then what I did was, I put it up not just on Facebook and stuff, but also on Reddit. Because I thought this is something pretty cool. People would appreciate it. And it people did. People liked it a lot. I was received very well. And I thought, you know what, this is probably a really good excuse to travel to different places in Pakistan, at least at that time. And that time, I was just thinking of bugs. So I thought you know what, I should maybe do this. In Pakistan, I get a really good excuse to travel to different places, and the pictures would come out pretty nice. So that's sort of where it started. I've always thought about you know, I should make a cool story. I should just make it up and then just put that version out there but the origins aren't that amazing. No, no, look, it's actually pretty.   Pouya LJ  15:02 I don't know what you're talking about. It's actually pretty good. It's a very green coming about at a younger age. When you thought about this, it's actually I think, a very cool story on its own and beyond that, I think nothing, nothing beats the order, the honesty, the the originality and the truth and honesty of the story. Yeah, as boring as it sounds, I think. Yeah, back that is orange, that, first of all, is original. So it's not somebody else's thought, or somebody else might have thought it. But on the other hand, because it's truthful, it's genuine. I think that has a lot of value to it personally, that's it doesn't have to be extra sexy actually, now not to get to cultural issues. But maybe that's that's one of the problems with our culture, especially the online culture these days, because everybody wants to make everything extra sexy. And that's it. Yeah. Sometimes publicity is actually the sexy part.   Emaad  16:01 That is very true. Yeah. Instead of you know, making up something big. And in the story that could have lifted up so many holes and stuff like that. It's always better to just stay simple.   Pouya LJ  16:10 Yeah. Yeah. No, I completely loved it. And don't don't sell it short. It is more interesting than you think it is. Okay, so that's cool. Cool story. Now, that gets us to currencies. So I know you have interest in technology. We actually talked about it today. And there is a degree of Okay, so that those are like government backed currencies. Now, obviously, those are the paper ones. All, I mean, we always were backed by those, but we also are removing them from our day to day interactions more and more. Yeah, as you progress towards credit cards, or debit cards are basically becoming electronic, which loses a little bit of touch. So I think you're bringing out a little bit on the stalls, you're there to, to the to the people who have forgotten what their dollars or whatever currencies look like. Yeah,   Emaad  17:07 you know, there's a funny thing about that. I was I was meeting up with a friend of mine, a few days back. And we were speaking about this project and stuff because I met him after a long while. And he, he was telling me, well, I said he's actually from China. So I said, oh, maybe I should go to China next and, and take take pictures of Chinese currency. Yeah. And he laughed about it. He's like, good luck finding one. Oh, because China has basically moved on to digital currency they have I think WeChat and Ali pay. I think those are the names if I'm correct. But what they do is they it's all digital payments, they have QR codes, they just scan there, they just scan those QR codes so they can pay whatever they whatever amount they need to pay. And, you know, if I'm paying money to you, if I'm giving money to you, or anything that's over V chat, as well. And it's such a streamlined system that they've made, that they no longer have to use paper currency at all. So he was laughing about that. And that resonates with what you said, because so many people are just digital, they're into digital banking, there's no more paper currency anymore. There's no more paper currency. Because I mean, why carry it around? Why case so much of it around in your wallet, when you can just put one card? And that accesses all your money at once.   Pouya LJ  18:29 Right? Yeah, no, that's true. And it makes a lot of sense. But but but you're adding that value on a artistic and social level I suppose. To to your work, which is, which is very interesting. Do you have you have what are the next plans? Do you have any any plans? Now? Like concrete plans to go next country or city or   Emaad  18:49 whatever? I mean, how can you make it How can anyone make any concrete plan?   Pouya LJ  18:54 Well, actually, that's true. That was a stupid question. Over there, I totally forgot.   Emaad  19:00 It's a very tough time to create concrete plans. I mean, I've done a country's I've completed our Pakistan, my home country, the EU, the US, Panama, Canada, Oman, and the United Arab Emirates. And Funny enough, Oman and the United Arab Emirates. I've only done a couple of their notes, not all of them. And that was because I was only there for a very short time. I think I was in UAE for about like 15 hours. And I was in Oman for about like 10 hours. Was that a layover? So that those are layover? Yeah. So what I've been doing is I occasionally travel between Canada and Pakistan often. If I'm if I want to go back home, meet family etc. And what I've always been trying to do is trying to find cool layovers. So usually I fly through the Middle East. And that's that sort of that sort of normal, because there's lots of airlines that connect through the Middle East, and or it through Turkey or through other countries or through Europe. So what I try to do is I try to find a different layover, where I can not only visit a new countries airport, but also stay there for like 1015 hours. A lot of airlines will offer is they offered like, two three hour connection. And then they also offer a 15 hour connection. And usually, the 15 hour connection is much cheaper, because so many people are just hoping to get to the airport, stay there for one hour and then get on their next flight angle. But instead, what I try to do is I try to find like a 15 hour layover or a 20 hour layover, so I can actually see the country I can go out of the airport, get an excuse to see. Yeah, see places. And along with that, what I do is then I exchange some exchange some money to get their own currency. I'd well I do research before to see which notes should would make sense. And then what I do is I I try to see which notes would make sense which notes are within reach of where I am. And then I get those notes from a currency exchange at the airport. And then I just tried to go to those places. And that's sort of how I've done it pretty much for most of us. That's how much that's how I've been doing it recently. With the layovers, I've also done Canada. There's a bunch of places within Canada. Sorry, before you   Pouya LJ  21:32 go ahead, I have to add something. For those people who complain about the boringness of layovers, get creative people. This is how you how you make it worth your while I   Emaad  21:42 continue. That is That is very true. I mean, I I love layovers, because an excuse to you know, go around, go travel. Yeah, for sure. I know a lot of people for for a lot of people. I mean, I'll make sense. Yeah, maybe they're in a hurry to get back or get somewhere or something. And they just here to airports. It could be a variety of reasons, or they're tired. But I personally believe that if there's a layover, I should spend it. Traveling or, you know, looking at different things make the most of it. This summer, I was going to travel via Turkey, via Turkish Airlines. And I had the option of a five hour layover in Istanbul, or a 25 hour layover. So I opted for the 25 hour layover, which is actually much cheaper, of course. So I both saved money. And I talked to the airline. And this is something cool. A lot of airlines will do this for you. They will give you a hotel room, and they'll cover your visa costs. They'll cover your visit transit visa costs, as well free of cost. Turkish Airlines was doing that Turkish Airlines gave a free hotel. Free hotel for one night, which is very cool. I mean, I just I just go there and they will take me to the hotel. They'll give me a free hotel. And then I can just go and visit. I did this with Emirates as well. When I was traveling with Emirates, I had a 15 or 16 hour layover in Dubai. And all I had to do was just apply online, it takes five seconds. And when I get to the airport, they give me they give me a hotel voucher, and food voucher, and a couple of food vouchers. So my food was covered. They gave me a free hotel. And they gave me they transported me from the hotel to the airport and the airport and airport to the hotel. And this is all for free. And it's not something you need business class for is an economy class ticket. Right?   Pouya LJ  23:51 Yeah, you were you were going on to sorry, it took you off a tangent, but you were sorry. Originally you were going off to talk about your experience in Canada on what you did.   Emaad  24:00 Yeah, for sure. Um, I mean for Canada, the current notes are not super indicative of different places in Canada. Number of the $5 note, which you might have seen has space on the back has international has actually the Canadarm that is something that can be made it on the International Space Station. It has that so I think that's kind of tough. The $10 note has Jasper National Park that one I've actually done. I did that last year. I did a train going through Jasper National Park in Alberta. The $20 note has a memorial. It's still a place it's still a building but that memorial is actually in France, interestingly enough, and then the 50 and 100 don't really have any specific places on them. So what I've instead been doing is I've looked at older nodes in Canada. So there's the old one $1 old $1 notes old hundred dollar notes, a lot of old $1 notes are in Ottawa, they have a lot of government buildings on them. And the old hundred dollar note was in Lunenburg, which is in Nova Scotia, so I went there last winter, just on a road trip to take a picture of it there. Now, there's another one that I took, which is the newest note for of Canada, which is the new $10 note. And I went to Winnipeg, just for a two day trip, I was able to find a really cheap flight out of Hamilton, Hamilton to Winnipeg at fault places. I was able to find a really cheap flight. So I went on a weekend trip over there. And that is the one when you started the call when you started this podcast. That's the one that you were mentioning the that was the one that was featured on CBC. Nice. Um, so CBC took note of that, and they said, oh, wow, someone came to visit Winnipeg from Toronto to take a picture. This is something like that. And they should feature   Pouya LJ  26:06 Yeah, a little bit of caveat for anybody who knows anything about geography of Canada and especially in the wintertime. I don't know when you went there was it winter or I think it was winter because I can see some snow there or there's some snow anyways. So point being it like you from Nova Scotia. You know, the Winnebago, they have nothing in common like there's like to go out of your way to go there. It's not like you're having a layover in Istanbul or Dubai or something. It's a different game. ballgame. So just I have to add that caveat for people who are not   Emaad  26:41 Yeah. And they're and they're far like,   Pouya LJ  26:43 yeah, now that's what I mean.   Emaad  26:45 The province where Toronto is, it's Ontario, and Winnipeg is in Manitoba. And they're both bordering each other. But the problem The biggest problem is trying to so far south in Canada, as opposed to other places in in Canada, like Winnipeg, in Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver. They're very far up north. Toronto is very far south. Yeah, it was a two hour flight just to win it back itself. Which is mind blowing. Because you're going north, you're going north, Northwest a lot. Yeah. But it was pretty cool. It was a fun trip. My flight got canceled on the way back, which is very fun as well. Oh. But that gave me more excuses. You know, travel, pay my friend. We decided to go to CES Saskatchewan, just to the border of it. And Funny enough, now that I'm remembering it. Well, we decided to do was we had a rental car. So we just extended one more day. And he said, You know what? It's a four hour drive to Saskatchewan, which going back to your Canadian geography has nothing in it. There's nothing in there. It's a whole province with nothing in it. Yeah, it's it's just in the middle of Canada. It's just land. There's nothing wrong. I don't think anyone even lives there. And it's just a four hour drive just to the border of it and the border of it. Believe it or not, there was nothing there. It was just a sign that said Welcome to Saskatchewan. So we took a picture with it just to prove that we have been here. And then we went on a four hour trip back to Winnipeg. And on that four hour trip back to Winnipeg, my friend drove and I decided to I decided to finish my application for my physics Master's. And I submitted it that night while I was somewhere on the road between Saskatchewan in Winnipeg.   Pouya LJ  28:38 Yeah, that's that's, that's pretty cool. And I'm actually trying to figure out how much the province like the population of the province, but for some reason I'm failing. I think it's I don't know if it's the city of population.   Emaad  28:54 No, there's a city called Saskatoon. And there's two major cities and ask a tune in Regina. Yeah, but the population of Saskatchewan. I find, I think it's 1 million.   Pouya LJ  29:07 Yeah, it's a gigantic province, with 1 million population.   Emaad  29:12 I think it's the I don't know if it's the biggest.   Pouya LJ  29:16 No, it's not the biggest, like on the map is definitely smaller than Ontario, Quebec, even British Columbia, but it's close enough to Alberta maybe a little bit smaller than Alberta. But point being it's still a lot of land there. And the entire population is like 1,000,001.1. Just Just to, you know, confirm your   Emaad  29:40 identity is there's one there's 1.86. So basically two people per kilometer squared. Yes, a few. If you create a box that is a kilometer wide and kilometer, that is just to each each side of the box is a kilometre, which is a very big number. There's only two people who live in there.   Pouya LJ  30:07 Yeah, that's a very big house for you.   Emaad  30:11 And versus Ontario, if I'm correct, the density of Ontario is 15 people per kilometer squared. Right? So that's, that's the key difference.   Pouya LJ  30:23 Yeah, that's like, so unfolds almost. Yeah. I'm done by five anyways. Um, yeah, what? Let's, let's move on a little bit, because we want to talk about we got to, you know, more computerized digital currencies, not necessarily digital currencies in terms of cryptocurrency, which we'll get to but, um, so we talked, we talked about technology coming into disrupting really anything, everything, and currency being one of them. for for for many reasons, why, now that that naturally brings us also to the realm of cryptocurrency, which, well, what are you going to do? cryptocurrencies don't have monuments on them printed, that they don't print? But joke aside? What are your thoughts on the digitization of currency and maybe even you know, distributed currencies such as cryptocurrencies, Bitcoin, what have you? Do? Do you have any interest in them? Do you read about them?   Emaad  31:31 Yeah, I do. I do a lot. And I, I think it's very interesting, not just from an investing perspective, but from a practical perspective.   Pouya LJ  31:40 Well, investment can be practical if you do it right.   Emaad  31:42 Investing can be practical, but it comes with its own caveats, especially investing in cryptocurrency, it's a very risky thing to do. Sure. And you could, you could probably just lose a lot of your money. If you invest, without thinking or without, you know, without the right tools without the right resources. If you do that, then you can lose a lot of money in crypto, but I was talking more so the practicality on the practical side of things on the technology behind it. how they've made something open source, and decentralized. They've made something which no one can touch and chain, no one person can go in and touch and change. Its cryptocurrency and Bitcoin and those things, they they're the Ledger's. They're, their records, they're everything, they, they stay with the people. There's no one person who controls everything. And I think that's that's a beautiful aspect of the digital currency. Because its power comes in its numbers. If a lot of people use Bitcoin, then it's more strong. There's more, I guess records, there's more copies of everything. And that technology can then be applied to so many different things that can be applied to contracts. blockchain can be applied to supply chain logistics, to ensure nothing has changed to ensure there's to ensure the right tracing of materials that people are getting food, and so many different things. But just from a currency standpoint, this is a very tough debate. Because a lot of countries a lot of banks are against this because this is against what they've been doing throughout throughout, I guess, throughout the startup humanity, or throughout the start of banking, at least because the main essence of a bank and a central bank is in the name. It's centralized. Yeah. And if you decentralize parents, if you decentralize money, if you decentralize your own local currency, then how are you going to achieve anything? In terms of you know, regulating power, regulating finances, making sure money doesn't go into the wrong hands. Even the wrong may be a subjective word. But there's so many different things that come in with it, that I personally believe it would be a bit tough to move to it all together. In my opinion,   Pouya LJ  34:12 by altogether You mean like removing the central banks from the central, the regular currencies of countries? Yeah. And making it the dominant. Okay.   Emaad  34:20 Yes. But with that, I also think it is hard for them, the centralized banks to completely remove cryptocurrencies. I mean, a lot of a bunch of countries have made it illegal to have them. I don't know which countries are but I remember there were a bunch of countries that said it's illegal to trade it or have it even. But they're not going anywhere, either. Because they're a force to be reckoned with. They're they're not they're not just something small with banks and say, Oh, that's illegal. Get rid of them. You know, Pete, they're, like I said before, their strength comes in how many people hold it, and I think that's going to be interesting. Day by day. I was talking to a friend of mine who wanted to transfer money from, I think it was from the EU or not from. Yeah, it was from Pakistan to the US. And she was asking me, what's the best way to do it. And whether she should wire transferred, whether she should Western Union it or something else. And I looked at the fees and wire transfer fees were more than 1500. dollars, she would have to pay Western Union fees were around that probably even higher, that she'll have to pay. And that's a huge chunk of your money that they're taking. Yeah. But I suggested, oh, why don't you just buy crypto over there? over the counter crypto, which is you're just paying someone money, and they transfer cryptocurrency to your wallet. And then you just transfer that crypto to whoever you need to send it to in the US. And that takes wire transfers can take two weeks, Western Union can take like at least a day or two that can take like five seconds, maybe a bit more obviously be based on based on how much you pay for the gas, etc. so many different things. But it's still less than less than a day, you can get money from here to there. And then they can just sell it over the counter or cash it out. Or they can do whatever they want. And that's how you can just easily transfer money using crypto as well. So I think it is a force to be reckoned with, what banks would need to do is figure out what's the middle ground here? How can they eat, right? incorporate that into their own systems into their own, into their own platforms? Because Funny enough, the weakest. The point, the place where digital currencies are weak, is the fact that some people can't trust them because they're decentralized. So they're like, oh, then who's going to be taking who's going to be, you know, handling it, who's going to be in charge of dispersing it and stuff. So there's no trust there. But on the other hand, people have started losing trust onto central banks themselves. Because they don't make the best policies. So it's sometimes it's better to have something decentralized.   Pouya LJ  37:29 Yeah, that does make sense. So there is definitely I mean, as with a lot of things, there's there are weaknesses and strengths. And obviously, one of the strength of cryptocurrencies, is mobility of it, etc. Also, just just to close that loop of legality, so the three countries that are definitely illegal, and there's like, there are some countries that have greater areas, but in Algeria, Egypt and Morocco is outright illegal, just for closing that loop. And there's a lot of other countries that are like, somewhere in between. Yeah, meaning some restrictions. But generally speaking, it's legal, etc. So we can put this into notes. And,   Emaad  38:19 yeah, for sure. So now there is something interesting that I, that I came across, and I worked with, I worked briefly with, with the team behind it. There's something called UBI. This is just very generic. There's something called UBI, universal basic income. Yeah, and this is something that has been debated in a lot of countries attempted in a lot of countries and a bunch of places at least, I think Germany is trying that out right now. And just giving universal basic income to some of its citizens.   Pouya LJ  38:54 Andrew Yang is making a lot of noise,   Emaad  38:56 Yang was making that the biggest point of his presidency, there were a couple of places I think in Canada that tried it, if I'm if I'm not wrong, a while back. And there's I can't get much into the details of it. But there is a there is a there's a consortium that is actually based in Canada, that is trying to get together a lot of UBI experts from around the world and work towards creating a global UBI which is going to be a key Their aim is that it's adopted throughout the world. And everyone gets a certain UBI per month, per day, per hour per second. I mean, there's going to be one amount per month, but then that's going to be per week and then you get that every second of your existence. And that's going to be actually I think one of the smartest ways to go about it would probably be on blog. And that's something that that I came across. And I briefly work with them on some of their some and some of the technical side of their project. And that's something that's very cool because now it's using blockchain using using utilizing blockchain, which is, again, the technology that's been brought forward by these digital currencies. And that's where the practicality thing comes in. But now they're putting it into a very large scale where they're asking for global adoption and global adoption for it. which hopefully would replace the need for conventional currency, and create a global system where everyone can earn a basic income to live, essentially, to at least cover where they're living to cover their food to cover their health related things. Which is, I believe it should be right for everyone. Everyone should be able to do that.   Pouya LJ  41:04 Yeah. So now the natural question, especially for universal UBI. Being while UBI has universal and but my point is being like around the world, not just containing a country. An actual question is cost of living and the value of currency, etc. is completely diff No, assuming we still trading regular currencies, not just the crypto ones, that there is a degree of asymmetry here that so is the proposal of this team. By the way, can you can you mention them by name?   Emaad  41:41 I don't know if that's? I mean, the name is global UPI.   Pouya LJ  41:44 Oh, you mentioned it? Okay. Yeah. Anyways, so is the proposal a fixed amount for every single person on the planet? Or is it different, depending on assessment of what are your cost of living? Where you live? by country, by city by province by? I don't know, what have you? Is there a distinction? Or it's just a fixed amount?   Emaad  42:09 See, that's the the project is I believe in preliminary phases, or I'm not 100% sure where they are, and whether they're in testing or whether they're sort of just beginning to research on it. And I frankly, do not know the answer to this.   Pouya LJ  42:27 Do you have Do you have your own thoughts on the matter?   Emaad  42:30 And the thing is, if if it is a global currency, and if everyone is has sort of access to the same currency? Yeah, then there shouldn't really be a problem with cost of living?   Pouya LJ  42:46 Well, I think I think there will be still, what, two two folds for one fold. Is that, okay, if we only adopt, I would,   Emaad  42:53 my question is, why would something be why would like, let's go to the Big Mac index, which is something I promise economists use. If there's a Big Mac in the US for let's say, let's say the the UBI currency, the new currency for the world is world dollars. Sure. There's a Big Mac in the US, which costs one world dollar. The currency in Turkey is also world dollar. Why would the Big Mac there be less?   Pouya LJ  43:26 Yeah. Okay, that's so that's that's the first fold of the problem, though I was talking about. And that is, as if that's the, okay, if that's the dominant currency traded?   Emaad  43:39 Sure. Their goal is to have world adoption of this. Okay. So that   Pouya LJ  43:45 will solve   Emaad  43:46 the would give way to, yeah, it would give away. Well, digital and non digital banks, central banks would give weight, this currency to come in. And the main essence of this currency is to make sure that it's secure and no one person would be able to access everything and change everything. Does that compromise the security of it? Yeah. So if there is, again, like I said, if there's a Big Mac for one US dollar, one world dollar, then wouldn't have the same Big Mac, we won World dollar somewhere else, because there's no other currency to base it off of. Yeah. So where would the cost of living? How would the cost of living and stuff be compared?   Pouya LJ  44:32 Well, you when you're talking about stuff, like I don't know, franchises or something? Yes, you're absolutely right. That makes sense. But if you're talking about for example, cost of land. Well, that definitely certainly has differences as you do within a country. Let's take Canada for example. Obviously, the price of homes in the heart of Toronto is completely different than say Saskatoon, that was what we were talking about, right? So, so in that sense, I mean, you can argue that the cost of living within The cities also started within the country is also different, which is reasonable. That's   Emaad  45:05 that's based on demand. Exactly supply that's really based off of, I mean, what the currency is doing, but it's no normal. So there's more space here more people want to live here.   Pouya LJ  45:16 Absolutely, they're gonna be worth more. So the land was an example of a commodity or, or something that would have different values, depending on where you are in a country and more importantly, in a world, right, that has the certainly has different, different many things have different values in different places in the world. And that alone can cost per debate, the cost of living by a lot, depending on which part of the world you're living, the basic cost of living, let's say, shelter, basic food, water, clean water, and   Emaad  45:51 I get what I get the question that you're I get what you're saying. And I agree that other things could be worth more other things could be worth less. And you're right, there's places in Canada right now, up very north, where food is so expensive. Exactly. Because they have to transport it over there and get it over there. So the cost of living over there is high. Yes, I agree with you. I agree with what you're saying that. Also living can be different because of these reasons. But the thing is that the UBI that I mentioned, sure, it doesn't aim to fully cover everything in your life. Yeah, of course. Because if it does that, then yeah, there's no motivation to do anything, even though that's a completely different debate with UBI motivation. But it's more so meant as a cushion for you. In some places, I mean, you could move to Saskatchewan. And you may be able to live comfortably on a UBI. Yeah, there's rent, there may be cheap food, there may be cheap. I mean, they're farmers, a lot of farms over there, but everything maybe cheap over there. So you might save money with the UBI. But where it says if you're in Toronto, then if you're getting a certain UBI, you may not be able to cover all your expenses with a UBI, you might still have to work. But I guess that's just the that's that's how this is. That's how everything should be. Because I mean, if if you're going somewhere else, if you're going somewhere where there's a very, there's very low demand for something and things should be cheaper. Yeah, if you're going somewhere where there's more demand and things would ideally be more expensive. That's the main essence of sort of a capitalist environment. Yeah, more equals more money.   Pouya LJ  47:44 No, absolutely. That That doesn't make sense. My concern was, and you're right, within a country, etc. So the difference that I was imagining is that the Delta within a country is much more marginal than a Delta currently, at least in the in the whole world. Like, if you give the highest value and the lowest value cost of living in different parts of the world, the delta is much larger than within one country. Okay, that actually to be argued, depending on the country you pick, but yeah, but for most of the world, at least. But I suppose if you and part of that comes from the the big Delta around the whole world, perhaps comes from the fact that the currencies have different values, maybe if you actually do a flatten out everything, and everybody adopts a common currency, at least as a dominant chords, that the trade end, I mean, it doesn't mean that the rest of the currencies will be eliminated completely, but they're not the main one at least, then maybe there's Yeah, maybe there's a degree of flattening this. This Delta make it a little bit smaller. That could be argued, I don't know. But that was Yeah, I'm just trying to paint a picture of what I was   Emaad  49:00 imagining. No, yeah, I understand. I understand what you're saying. But like I said, it's not something that is meant to replace everything in your life, and give you access to everything you want. Because that's gonna lead into way many more problems, because then everyone has access to whatever they want, for sure. But it's more so a cushion for you to at least live your life, to not starve on the streets do not to have your basic necessities at least covered wherever you are, you can be in Toronto, you could be wherever. And obviously, for the economic system to grow, people would still need to work because to create a living they would need there wouldn't be innovation around the world. And none of that is in danger. Because of UBI   Pouya LJ  49:45 Yeah, no, no, that makes sense. I mean, obviously these topics especially the UBI and cryptocurrency have endless spanned, and we can spend hours and hours talking about them which we may at some point, but We've come we've come a long way. I think all we've done almost one hour right now. So, yeah, I think it's a good place to, you know, close the loop on everything do you have? Do you have anything you want to add to summarize? No,   Emaad  50:16 not so much. I mean, I agree. This is a good, some good point. Where to where to pause it. And I'm sure there's going to be way many more discussions about UBI. And I'd love to, you know, have more. You, of course, as I as I research more on   Pouya LJ  50:32 it, exactly how I think about it. Now, I think it's gonna be really good. These discussions are obviously always fun to have and a lot of times constructive helpful. And yeah, I enjoy talking.   Emaad  50:47 Yeah. And yeah, that's really good. So it was a great, it was a great time discussing all these cool things.   Pouya LJ  50:53 Yeah. Yeah, no, that's great. Okay, so we'll put your information in the show notes, too. But do you want to tell people where they can find you online?   Emaad  51:04 Yeah, for sure. I mean, I'm, you can find me on Instagram, which is pr racha explores. That's pa ra, ch, e XP l or Yes. Or you can also find me on LinkedIn, which is e mod beracha. That is e m, a D. and last name is parotta. Pa ra ch a, if you want to talk about anything regarding the currency project, which is going to be more on my Instagram, or more about physics, or UBI, or anything like that, and I'd love to talk more.   Pouya LJ  51:41 Yeah, that's awesome. As I mentioned, obviously, we're going to put this in the show notes, so anybody who didn't get that they can go and look it up there. Thanks again, Bob. I was really fun talking to you Jason

Welcome to Finance and Fury, the Furious Friday edition. Today, we are going to go through the concept of Planning versus chaos within an economic system Before we get into it - Which one would you prefer – purely based around the description – an economic system that is fully planned or one that is based around chaos – albeit self-organising chaos? That is where Fully planned does sound better – in theory – you should have lower uncertainty – through have some entity creating all the rules of commerce, from the amounts of goods to produce and at what price, how many people should be employed and at what wage – creates the perception of safety - but in reality – is this what actually occurs? On the other hand – when looking at Chaos - could this actually lead to a better result for you and I? Well – based around what has been observable throughout history – it is – as chaos when left to its own devises becomes self-organised It does sound weird – letting an economic system fall into complete chaos But chaos here isn’t what the end result is – the end result is closer to an optimal solution for everyone This is due to the complex systems of the economy – The very nature of planning in chaos makes planning obsolete - the property of a complex system is one where the behaviour is so unpredictable as to appear random – and this system has a great sensitivity to small changes in conditions –trying to control the whole system ends up on true chaos as the outcome So in this episode – we will look at how planning of the economy is what creates true chaos – of complete disorder and confusion – whilst a system of chaos that is allowed to self organise can result in the best outcome for all of us This is the concept of a free market – the self-organisation of the population without intervention To start with – important to cover the concept of laissez faire – French for let it be – This is an economic theory in which transactions between private parties are absent of any form of economic interventionism such as regulation and subsidies laissez-faire is a theory that rests on the concept that the individual is the basic unit in society and has a natural right to freedom and that the physical order of nature is a harmonious and self-regulating system This theory was a product of the Enlightenment period – and was conceived as the way to unleash human potential through the restoration of a natural system, a system unhindered by the restrictions of government". Remember – prior to this time – 1700s – the rule of the economy was done by a Monarchy in most nations – Quotas were set, taxation was required – it was a very controlled economic system where the state would provide monopoly contracts to companies and allow them to facilitate trade without competition – as it benefited the state (i.e. the royals in control) The by-product was the rise of mega-companies like the Dutch East India Company, French East India Company, the East India Company and their likes – if someone wanted to create a company – needed a government (essentially a royal) charter to do so – this system wasn’t natural – heavily monopolies and controlled by the monarchs of the time – however it made those within a system of nepotism incredibly rich – both the royals from receiving direct tribune from these companies and the heads of these companies (or shareholders) Then the world saw a rise in the de-monopolisation of the economic system – over time – smaller entrepreneurs started to appear Laissez-faire as a concept in markets started being practiced in the mid-18th century and was further popularized by Adam Smith's book The Wealth of Nations – concept of the invisible hand Adam Smith’s viewed the economy was more of that of a natural system - where the market was an organic part of that system – which at the core is human interaction By extension - Smith saw laissez-faire as a form of a moral program and the markets as an instrument to ensure people the rights of natural law - the positive rights or law of any given political order, society or nation-state – to not be infringed upon Therefore - free markets became a reflection of the natural system of liberty and freedom for the population to conduct their lives and earn a living as they saw fit - For Smith, laissez-faire was "a program for the abolition of laws constraining the market, a program for the restoration of order and for the activation of potential growth" Through millions of people interacting through voluntary transactions – the prices and supply of goods and services will form an equilibrium close to optimal over time If all of a sudden everyone is demanding tea – people will start producing or importing tea – eventually there will be competition and due to oversupply – the price will drop to allow additional demand of tea – eventually – the market will be flooded with tea – as opposed to the early day of mercantilism where only the wealthy could afford to drink tea – as was the case in England – tea prices saw a 91% drop after opening up the free market of trade from 1700 to 1850 Ironically – Karl Marx and Fredrich Engels – and Adam Smith – had similar views on the business man or entrepreneur in one way – but they viewed the outcomes as different – they both agreed that the whole point to get into business is self-interest – not for the betterment or morality of society – but where they differed – in the outcome Smith understood whilst the business man didn’t get into business for the good of the nation – it did still benefit it – Hence a belief in a 'natural order' or liberty under which individuals were allowed to follow their selfish interests contributed to the general good. Since, in their view, this natural order functioned successfully without the aid of government, they advised the state to restrict itself to upholding the rights of private property and individual liberty, to removing all artificial barriers to trade, and to abolishing all useless laws" That is again where Marx with communism differed – thought that the business man or the upper middle class and above (the businessman or owner of capital) was the problem as their greed was responsible for the workers – or lower class – being improvised – hence – wanted a stronger state on the road to full communism (socialism being a step) where the government controlled all means of production Thought that this would solve all economic problems however the opposite is true – without the people starting companies to work – those people don’t have jobs – that is where the selfish interest when Government or a body with power over man tends to corrupt an economy when corporations become creatures of the state – such as they did under mercantilism – and are slowing becoming again today - the individual can tend to lose their propensity due to the disruption to the Smithian spontaneous order To be clear – even the US which is meant to be one of the most capitalist countries – is not laissez-faire – Nor is any country in the world - The very cost of money is planned – Central banks control the cash rates – and this negates any potential for a laissez-faire system In addition – subsidies for companies that make up the market distort the outcomes – Examples - Tesla’s revenue - $6.04 billion for the last quarter - but 7% of that, or $428 million, coming from sales of carbon credits that were essentially gifted to them by the Government – Their net profit was $104m for the quarter – however – they would have still had over a $300m loss without selling off these credits Also – much has changed even in the employment conditions since then – the government used to not be a major employer – over 2m Australians are employed by Government – 17% of the working population Shows how distorted the markets have truly become - To be clear – a laissez-faire economic system at the surface has nothing to do with morality – but leads to morality by a by-product – saying that everyone should be left to their own selfish desires to maximise their own position in life – whilst having the ability to do so isn’t seen as moral by modern eyes – why should one person have more than another? Even though the choices of those individuals have been different? This is where equality as a form of morality has been hijacked – as laissez-faire does lead to inequality – the freer the market the freer the ability for the individual to choose – hence due to choices – for a large part – we are not all equal Obviously – goes without say – some people are born into better situations than others – on average everyone in Aus is in a better position than someone in India or Africa – but what about someone born into the Brahmin class in India versus someone born into an impoverished family in Australia? humans are a sum of our choices – even the riches people can go to poverty if they make incorrect choices Unfortunately – this is never brought up – mobility of wealth is a thing – however – the ideology of the Government or those more extreme cant have this – you need to believe that free markets as sexist, racist, or any other platitude you can think of The role of the government should be to protect the free market – not to impede it by creating laws that make barriers to entry – through trying to enforce equality – which is impossible unless you remove all options of choice from the individual – Also – the financial system shouldn’t be allowed hijack the free market – hence governments role should be to avoid the monopolisation and enforce anticompetitive behaviours A lot of social or moral movements can and have been hijacked – from the Resistance, Rebellion, and Death – essays by Albert Camus in the 1940s - “The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants.”  is what has happened in every revolution - Albert Camus also said – “The slave begins by demanding justice and ends by wanting to wear a crown. He must dominate in his turn.” This is the power that a centrally planned economy provides – the opportunity to overthrow and control a system I think a lot of people complaints involved with the economic system has to do with the power structures involved in that which has control over the economy – the Governments - People who want a revolution of the economy tend to just want to take it over – using Government powers – society tends to get worse whenever this occurs Now – look at centrally planned economies – ones with complete government or authoritarian control – the more control they have – the more they are fought over – as they are seen as a power epicentre – if the government had little to no power – then there wouldn’t be modern day Marxists trying to overthrow the governments and put themselves in a position of power distribution There have always been those elements in society – and its not like laissez-faire systems are perfect – can have plenty of creative destruction and economic downturns – it is a natural state Herbert Spencer was opposed to the application of laissez faire: "Along with that miserable laissez-faire which calmly looks on while men ruin themselves in trying to enforce by law their equitable claims, there goes activity in supplying them, at other men's cost, with gratis novel-reading!" It is true – based around choices – a free market has the appearance of looking on and letting someone fail – but that should be seen as a learning opportunity It isn’t someone’s fault if they make an incorrect choice and fail – however – if they keep making it – the onus starts to be pushed back onto them – from today – I could take up the hobby of injecting heroine – and keep making that choice daily – when I lose my businesses, investments and wife and family, is the free markets fault that I lost everything? It did allow me to fail after all? It might sound harsh – but that is reality – thankfully – being human is much more forgiving than any other species on the planet – if you were a zebra and made the wrong choice to run in another direction of the herd – you are going to get got Important to note – no system in the world is completely free – Australia is one of the better ones – however – with the very cost of money around the world being centrally planned – the whole world economy is stuck to never be truly free Most important thing is to use your eyes and logic – not to get wrapped up in platitudes about what could be in a perfect world – but what has been and what is observable based around those same policies – For example – where would you want to grow up – North or South Korea? Imagine you are a child in North Korea - Kids in north – after school (which is mostly propaganda to solidify ruler), 10 years military No option to accumulate anything, No way to start business, No way to buy your home, Never Own a car, telephone, travel overseas South – you have economic freedom to all of these things and more – hence the south out produces the north GDP by 37 times - $33400, v 1800 GDP per capita (Per person) - Live 10 years longer in south, infant mortality is almost 7 times lower What makes them so different? Why does one work? One has a freer the market – one is purely centrally planned – but the free market is what leads to incentives – which are at the core of all economic models - laissez-faire provides a system that create incentives What are incentives? – Rewards for your effort – the economy is not a zero sum game – earn more, keep it, and use it as you want- however - If someone can take your stuff, why bother? What laissez-faire should provide – an Inclusive system – probably not the inclusive system that most people are familiar with Next week – look at the systems that breed incentives – inclusive systems or extractive systems and how to work this into your own lives Thank you for listening to today's episode. If you want to get in contact you can do so here: http://financeandfury.com.au/contact/

Hi everyone, and thank you for tuning in to another episode of the We Make Books Podcast - A podcast about writing, publishing, and everything in between! This week we are talking pen names!  What is a pen name and why would you want to use one?  We know what you're thinking, practically every episode we've mentioned your website, your social media, your brand - wouldn't a pen name just make it harder to for people to find you and check out your work?  The truth is there are lots perfectly good reasons to want to use a pen name instead of your own and in this episode we get into those reason plus some of the fact and fiction of pen names (there is some really weird misinformation out there about what a pen name can do for a writer).   We Make Books is hosted by Rekka Jay and Kaelyn Considine; Rekka is a published author and Kaelyn is an editor and together they are going to take you through what goes into getting a book out of your head, on to paper, in to the hands of a publisher, and finally on to book store shelves. We Make Books is a podcast for writers and publishers, by writers and publishers and we want to hear from our listeners! Hit us up on our social media, linked below, and send us your questions, comments, concerns, and the best pen name you've ever come up with! We hope you enjoy We Make Books! Twitter: @WMBCast  |  @KindofKaelyn  |  @BittyBittyZap Instagram: @WMBCast  Patreon.com/WMBCast   Episode 38: An Author Called By Any Other Name Will Still Write Amazing Things transcribed by Sara Rose (@saraeleanorrose)   [0:00]   R: Welcome back to We Make Books, a podcast about writing, publishing, and everything in between. I’m Rekka, I write science fiction and fantasy as R.J. Theodore.   K: And I’m Kaelyn Considine, I am the acquisitions editor for Parvus Press and—   R: But is that your real name?   K, sighing: Well, um. The acquisitions editor for Parvus Press is a suffix that I use to—   R< laughing: I was gonna say, don’t you get tired of saying the whole thing every time?   K: It is a bit of a mouthful. Sometimes I do just introduce myself as Kaelyn. So, yeah, we’re talking about pen names today in this episode. What are they? Why do people use them? Why are they beneficial? How do you pick one? All of these important aspects.   R: And what not to expect from your pen name.   K: Yeah, things that a pen name will not do for you. There’s some frightening stuff on the internet.   R: There’s some bad advice out there, did you know that?   K: Yeah, who woulda thought? Just because it’s on the internet, doesn’t mean it’s always true.   R: Yeah. Yeah, imagine that.   K: Pen names can be an important and valuable tool, so that’s what we spend some time talking about in this episode. You know, if you’re going to use one, getting the most bang for your buck, so to speak.   R: If you’re early enough in your career that you might wanna choose a pen name, I hope this is something that gives you stuff to think about. If you’re mid-career, you know, you might still decide that you’re gonna launch a new career in a different genre or something. But it’s also, you know, maybe it’ll help reinforce the decision you did make. So take a listen and enjoy!   K: Enjoy, everyone!   [intro music plays]   K: My bluejay nemesis.   R: Is back?   K: Well, here’s the thing, it turns out it was never gone! Because I found out that bluejays are actually excellent mimics, so—   R:Ohhh, yeah.   K: I saw it and it was like… it was very jarring because it was not making the normal bluejay noise. And I was like, “Oh my god!” And it… it can imitate other birds. I hate this thing so much! It’s… it’s terrible. I mean, thankfully it’s not sitting outside my window every morning screaming and waking me up like it has been in previous years. But I feel like it is tormenting me now. It is absolutely, now, pretending to be other birds.   R: Maybe that’s a courtesy to you. Like, it knows that you don’t like the jay. So you might better enjoy a chickadee.   K: Okay. I live in New York City. There’s no chickadees here.    R: Which is why I could never live in New York City. Chickadees are my favorite birds.   K: No, but apparently it can imitate hawks?   R: Hm.   K: So it’s been doing that, a little bit. And then, now I’m like thinking, “There have been other weird bird noises I’ve been hearing. Is that also this damn bluejay?”   R: Probably.   K: Oh, god I hate this thing.   R: It’s putting on a performance for you! It’s dedicated its life’s work to this portfolio of bird calls and it knows that you, alone, in the world can appreciate them.   K: I would just appreciate it if it went away.   R: Well, yes. You, alone, would also appreciate that.   K: But hey! Speaking of pretending to be other things!   [R and K laugh]   K: You see what I did there?   R: I see what you did there.   K: Today we’re talking about pen names.   R: Nom de plume!   K: And pen names are not necessarily pretending to be another person all the time. There’s a lot of reasons you could have a pen name.   R: Yeah. It’s funny because the first thing I ever remember about encountering the concept of pen names was when I learned that Charles de Lint wrote horror under another name. And I thought that was the most bizarre thing in the universe, that someone would change their name and hide their books from their fans!   Because to me, I liked Charles de Lint so much as a teenager, I read everything I could get my hands on and then I was out of books—Well, I say I was out of books, the other books I couldn’t find were out of print. And so to find out that there were more books I could have been reading! I was very upset, even though I wasn’t a horror reader. I would have gotten into reading horror because this author that I liked so much wrote it. And that was my first encounter with the concept of an author name.    K: I think we all have that jarring moment, somewhere in late elementary school when we were told that Mark Twain was not Mark Twain’s actual name.   R: Oh! Yeah, okay. So, yeah, I did know that but for some reason that didn’t count. Maybe because he was a historical figure.   K: Yeah, and also because I think we only knew him as Mark Twain. When you find out that his real name was Samuel Langhorne Clemens, you’re kinda like: “Oh, you know what I see why he went with Mark Twain.”   R: See, I always thought, because I knew Mark Twain and the name is so familiar, Samuel Clemens sounded like the more intriguing name, when I heard that. But the—Yeah, I guess Mark Twain wasn’t something that I read a lot of. And it wasn’t like Samuel Clemens had another collection of books that I could’ve been reading.   K: Exactly, that’s the thing is that he only wrote under Mark Twain, I think even with his newspaper writings.    R: Mhm.   K: I’m pretty sure he only wrote as Mark Twain, as well.   R: That sounds right, yeah.   K: I don’t think he ever really published much under Samuel L. Clemens. But there’s a long history of people using pen names. There’s a lot of pen names out there that people do not realize were pen names. For instance, George Orwell is a pen name. His actual name: Eric Arthur Blair. It’s not even close!   R: No, not even. And how do you come up with Orwell?   K: I… there’s a lot of things I wonder how that man came up with.   R: That—Fair enough. Okay, we’ll give you that one.   K: Jack Kirby, a famous early comic book writer and artist: Jacob Kurtzberg   R: Okay, so—but that’s gonna bring us into the whys of some of these, right? Because when he was working, there was a certain amount of prejudice against someone whose name would have been Kurtzberg.   K: Yeah. Yeah that—   R: Professionally, he would have had an easier time being Kirby.   K: Yes, definitely.   R: And that’s a shame. And that’s, unfortunately, still going on with pen names. I mean, we’ll get into some of that. But that is definitely still rampant is that there are preconceived notions of who belongs in what genre and who is worthy of respect. And people might choose a name that corresponds with people’s expectations of Greatness or Classics or anything like that. I mean, I will say I write under a pen name. You all know that.    K: We say at the top of every episode!   R: At the top of every episode, yeah! And I chose my pen name as an homage to someone who encouraged me a lot, but I also picked it, wrote it out and said, “Aww yeah that sounds like a author name!” And what does it sound like? It sounds masculine. It sounds like a white man’s name! And I’m half of that, but it was not really my intention to broadcast a masculine name that might fit better next to other masculine names on the shelf that get all the attention and draw. But to me, socially conditioned by the other names on the bookshelves in the store, I said, “Yeah! R.J. Theodore! That sounds like a real author’s name!   [K laughs]   R: I mean, honestly, if I could go back I’d pick something else. But I’m committed at this point. So.   K: So why do some people choose to write under pen names? Well, there’s a lot of reasons, obviously. Rekka just enumerated one for us. Would you call it branding, what you did?   R: Oh, definitely! Definitely. I mean, if you start a company, you name your company. And when you become a writer, if you intend to make a living at it, or at least make a career—whether or not the money is the point. But if you wanna do this for the long haul, you’re thinking about your presentation. Not just of your books and your stories, but yourself. So it is not unreasonable to sit down and come up with an author name and then because we DO NOT USE our legal signatures. Please, people. We practice the autograph of that author name and maybe even do that as part of feeling out whether you like the name and wanna stick with it. You know?   K: Branding is certainly a consideration when figuring out if you’re gonna use a pen name. Let’s be clear, right at the top, if your name is John Smith and you just feel like that’s your name and that’s what you want to write under, there’s absolutely no problem with that. You do not need to use a pen name. You do, however, need to be really good at marketing and maintaining your website and your internet presence, so that people can find you easily. Search engine optimization is going to be a key component to being successful here.   R: For John Smith, you are going to have to compete with police records, white pages, direct relistings—   K: Pocahontas.   R: That, too. You know, Florida Man. Everything is going to be a competition for you. So, you know, the elements of my pen name are not particularly unique but when you string them together and search for that, then that narrows down the field quite a lot.    K: Now, conversely, my name is very unique. I, as best I can tell, am one of the only two Kaelyn Considines in the world that spell their name this way. The other one is very clearly not me, if you punch it into Google. I will say that I have done different things, out in the world, under pen names. I am not going to say what they are or what that pen name is, explicitly because of privacy reasons.   R: Yes.   [10:50]   K: Because I have a professional life in publishing and a professional life outside of publishing. And, believe it or not, there are some things that I just don’t want intermingled all together with that. For the record, I am not doing anything nefarious or illegal. It’s just a matter of—   R: For the record, wink wink. If anyone asks...   K, laughing: Wanting to maintain some separation with different projects in my life.   R: Right. It’s privacy, but it’s specifically because you have aspects of your life that don’t need to mix. It’s not because you are trying to hide from anybody in a—it wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world if somebody found out the other name. But it would be annoying.   K: Well, I’ll be honest with you. When I started getting into publishing and when I came on at Parvus, I had a very frank conversation with Colin, who’s the publisher at Parvus Press, that I may need to do all of this under a fake name. Because my job at the time—I didn’t want it coming out that I was also running a side business, for a lot of reasons. And then, eventually, I decided, “Ugh, this isn’t worth it. I don’t have the energy to maintain this alternate presence!”    But the uniqueness of my name makes it so that, if you punch “Kaelyn publishing” into Google. I come up. I am the first result. If you punch “Considine” and anything vaguely associated with my name into Google, you will also find me very easily. When I started my previous job, when I was 26 and just out of grad school, years ago, I—the people that I worked with very quickly were able to punch me into Google and find all of these academic papers that I had published. That’s not a big deal, but they definitely had a lot of comments about how nerdy I was, as a result.   R: See, in the circles I run, that would be incredibly cool. So, don’t worry about it.   K: Oh, yeah, no it was kind of cool. But it was like, “Wow, you really are a huge history nerd, huh?” I’m like, “Yeah, I am. It’s you know.”   R: Mhm.   K: So, uniqueness or non-uniqueness are two factors here. In some cases, maybe your name is John Smith and you want to have something more akin to Kaelyn Considine where it’s easier to find you. Or, if you’re a Kaelyn Considine, maybe you—   R: Need a little more John Smith in your life.   K: Yeah, maybe you don’t always want to be found that easily. As we say on this show a lot, I am a pretty private person. I’m not super into social media, I don’t like to put a lot of myself out there. So I don’t like the idea of people being able to find me really easily.   R: But we should mention that just writing under a different name is not going to be enough to protect you from someone who wants to dig and find out who you are and how to find you.    K: Oh, yeah, no. It’s uh…   R: This is a very light coat of disguise. This is covering the Volkswagen bug that you’re racing with a grey cloth to make it look like a boulder. It only works because it’s a very low-fi film.   [14:21] K, laughing: Yeah, exactly. I will say—So another reason you might wanna use a pen name is maybe what you’re writing, you don’t necessarily want everyone to know that you’re writing it.   R: Right, that is definitely a possibility. Or, you know, maybe you have a family that you’re separated from and you don’t want them to know that you are writing at all.   K: Well, I will use an example from my real life. We have family friends that I grew up with and they have a daughter who’s a little older than me. Her mom started noticing that her and her husband seem to have some extra money. Not like a ton, not like a life-changing amount. They weren’t buying lamborghinis and moving into mansions, but they were—   R: Not stressing over small purchases.    K: Yeah, they put a lot of money into upgrading the house and took a really nice vacation. And her mom finally asked her, “Hey, did one of you get a raise or something?” and she said,” Oh, well you know how I wrote this book?” and she was like, “Oh! Did it start selling really well?” She’s like, “Well, no. But I kind of transitioned into writing some other things…”   Anyway, after some back-and-forth it came out that this person became one of the top ten selling erotica novelists in England for a long time. And she was doing this under a pen name. I think she kind of really nudged her way in right when Kindle unlimited was really taking off with this.   R: That’s the time, there you go.   K: Yeah. And she will not tell—we still have no idea—   R: What the pen name is.   K: Who she is, or what the pen name is! But she made a pretty decent amount of money off of it. Which, you know, good for her. But maybe you’re writing erotica and you don’t want everyone to know that you’re writing erotica.   R: Yeah, or just anything that you think you’d professionally or socially be shunned for, but it brings you joy. You know, just change the name and write under that. Again, if someone suspected it was you, it would probably be easy for them to figure out that it was. But if they’re looking for your name, this other name should not come up. As long as you’re just slightly careful about things.    K: That’s a good point, too, is when you’re deciding if you’re gonna use a pen name, one of the things you have to decide is how open you’re gonna be about this. Rekka is, for instance, very open about it.   R: Yep.   K: “I write science fiction and fantasy as R.J. Theodore.” Some people don’t ever really want you to see the person behind the pen name. Now, in the age of the internet this is very difficult to do.   R: Mhm.   K: There have been very famous writers that went their entire lives under a pen name that nobody ever—Like, Anne Rice’s name is not Anne Rice.   R: Right.   K: Her first name’s actually Howard.   R: Which is interesting. That’s a whole other conversation.   K, laughing: That’s a whole other conversation.   R: I mean, you know, again. Uniqueness. But also expectation of your genre. If Howard was a name that she chose to write with, why wouldn’t she use it? It’s because it doesn’t sound like a female-presenting name that is going to write bodice-clutching, tense semi-romantic vampire stories. There’s an expectation from readers that, you know, vampire authors are going to be female. There’s an expectation of readers that thriller authors—or at least the “good” ones—are going to be men. And then that ignores the non-binary spectrum entirely and then, what are the expectations there?   There are very cool names out there for some non-binary authors and I just think, “Wow! If I could go back and understand that gender was a spectrum not a binary, I might’ve picked a very different pen name.”     [18:43]    K: Yeah, and so that’s actually a good point. So you’re getting ready, you decided you’re gonna use a pen name. You’re getting ready to choose one. We talked a little bit before about branding and it is something to consider. Look, if you’re gonna be writing hard military science fiction, Florence Lilac deForest is probably not the best name to start writing that under. Now—   R: Although it would stand out in the field of military sci-fi, but…   K: That will certainly stand out, but emulating that is marketing at that point. Working on a pen name that you think is going to appeal to your readership. There’s nothing wrong with that.   R: If you think about it like the packaging on a box, you know, if you’re going to buy a microwave, you expect the microwave brand name is going to be of a certain ilk. You expect that the—just like there are cover expectations in genre—you expect that there’s gonna be  a photo of a microwave on the box. There are expectations and those expectations are because human brains are designed to put things into categories very quickly. So you wanna help other brains put you into the correct category. And that’s why you choose a name that matches a category, rather than going with it and hoping for the best.   K: Yeah, exactly. It’s unfortunate, but as Rekka mentioned there are some inherent biases in our brains and, you know, one of the most famous ones, J.K. Rowling. She does not actually have a middle name. Her name is Joanne Rowling and they told her, “Listen, we don’t want people to know you’re a woman.” And she said, “Okay, I can’t just be J. Rowling,” so she took K for Katherine, from her mom’s name and made it J.K. Rowling as, you know, things like George R.R. Martin. And J.R.R. Tolkein. And I think that’s a holdover from how letters in authorship used to be addressed. Used to cite off your first initial and your last name. Like, “Your Obedient Servant ___”.   So, is that a shitty, unfortunate thing about society? Yes. Absolutely. But would J.K. Rowling have been as successful as she ended up being if everyone knew she was a woman from the offset? Who knows! You know, Harry Potter came out before the advent of the internet. That said, there’s a giant fricken About the Author in the back, so.   R: Yeah, yeah. I mean, the story—I know when Oprah picked it up for the book club, the story of J.K. Rowling writing these things on deli napkins and reading it to her kids every night because they wanted a story, and then turning it into a book eventually, became part of the romance of why people flocked to J.K. Rowling as a personality and not just to the books. That’s part of the brand, though, is this rags-to-riches story.   K: That said, there are also cases of famous authors writing under pen names because they maybe want to try something new. So, like, J.K. Rowling—   R: Hey! Yeah, I was gonna say a J.K. Rowling story again.   K: J.K. Rowling published under Robert Galbraith, was the author name they used for the murder mystery novel she put out. Stephen King has written under a couple pen names. One of the more famous ones is Richard Bachman.   R: Mhm.   K: I do not know what the significance of that name is. Isaac Asimov wrote under Paul French. These were—I don’t wanna call them side projects, but they were different from things that they were known for writing, and wanted them to stand on their own merit.   R: Right. Michael Crichton also had a couple of pseudonyms.    K: Yes, yep. What does that mean, in terms of legality with an author? Now, again, in the age of the internet this is a little different because if you start digging around, looking for Richard Bachman, and this book. Through the availability of information, you’re probably gonna be able to figure out that it’s Stephen King.   R: But you have to be interested in Richard Bachman enough in the first place.    K: Yes! Yeah.   R: It’s not like you’re gonna search for Richard Bachman and the first site that pops up is gonna be Stephen King’s. I mean, that was the whole point was to not show up as Stephen King. So Stephen King’s not gonna make it easy for you to figure it out, unless he decides to debut. Like, “Oh, by the way, pulling back the curtain, that was me.”   K: Yeah, you’d really have to dig in with that. So, Rekka, how about copywriting pen names?   R: Well, so. You can’t—there’s a whole bunch of issues over trademarking names, anyway, but J.K. Rowling is bound to have that name trademarked. If not by her, then by her publisher.    K: Well also because it’s a fake name that is not her real name.   R: Right, so there may be a J.K. Rowling out there, though. That doesn’t automatically mean that person is going to be sued for signing their bank checks.   K: Or if they write, writing under that name.   R: Right, you cannot stop them from using their legal name. But—   K: Now, if your name is John Smith and you decide you’re gonna start publishing books under J.K. Rowling, you’re gonna have an issue.   R: Now you’ve got a problem.   K: Yeah. Because what you’re doing there is using a trademark to attempt to deceive people into thinking that this was written by J.K. Rowling.   R: That is something that J.K. Rowling and her lawyers are going to have to come after you for. And when I  say ‘going to have to’ what I mean is, if you register a trademark you have to defend it in order to maintain it. We’ve talked about this before. So, she’s going to have to come after you and find out, is that really your name? And if it is, how much money do I have to pay you to write under a different name, please?   K: By the way, it probably won’t even be J.K. Rowling that comes after you—   R: Oh, yeah, it’ll be lawyers.   K: Her publisher’s gonna get to you before she personally—   R: They’re gonna find you first, yeah.   K: —gets involved in this because it’s branding. That name is a commodity at this point.   R: Yes. That name has value to it that is separate, sort of, from the IP that she has created.   K: Now, that said, let’s go back to our other example, Stephen King. Stephen King is a much more common name. I know a Stephen King! I know Stephen Kings, a father and son, who are Stephen King!   So if they decided: hey I’m gonna write a book and publish it. There really isn’t anything that actual author Stephen King can do about it because you can’t stop someone from using your name. Now, as Rekka said, maybe you’re offered some incentive to publish under a pen name.   R: In which case, hey, not a bad deal! Maybe consider it.   K: Now, here’s the thing. I imagine Stephen King does not care that much. Stephen King’s publishers are going to care a lot.   R: Right, right.   K: So, now… how about just some other random person’s name. Let’s say I wanted to start publishing books under Rekka Jay.   R: I mean, I—Well, I can’t say I don’t publish books under Rekka Jay. There is one book out there with my name on the cover, of Rekka Jay. So I might ask you to not. But I don’t think I have a strong enough case to stop you.   K: Yeah, so there’s some weird legal issues that come into play here. So let’s say I wanted to start writing books and I’m gonna publish them under… I don’t know, Colin’s fair game. Let’s say I’m write books under Colin Coyle. Colin would have real, legal reason and recourse to stop me from doing that. He would have an interest in saying, “Kaelyn, we own a business together. We work together. We publish books together. I don’t want people thinking that this is me writing these books.”   That’s where all of this gets a little gray. But, as a general rule, using the names of people that you actually know is probably something to avoid.   R: I mean, the same can be said for using them for character names in your books. You just don’t wanna! This is just muddy water that you are gonna find yourself lost in.   K: Right, hold on, I gotta email an author real quick because I told him to change the names of two of his characters to Rekka. Both of them.   R, laughing: Both of them in the same book? Are they love interests, I hope?   K, laughing: Both of them are—Well, they are now.   R: But, yeah. You don’t wanna—just don’t mess with people you know. Because we don’t know how relationships are going to evolve over the years. This might be something—even if the person doesn’t care, you may just end up regretting someday. This person may end up making you grind your teeth in annoyance—   K: Now, forever.   R: —and then you’ve gotta go back to your books and those characters are named for this person, or you’ve used that pen name for your professional work. And you’re like, “Now I’m reminded of this person that I no longer want anything to do with.” To that point, some people choose pen names if they are married, just in case the marriage ever doesn’t end well. Or there’s another reason to change the legal name. If you separate your pen name from your legal name, you can detach yourself from some of these relationship issues.   K: Now, that said, here’s another really good reason to not use a pen name. If you are writing negative things about people.   R: Oh, yeah.   K: Here’s the thing, a pen name does not protect you from defaming someone.   R: No, there’s no legal protection from any laws that you break.   K: So, if you’re going, “Well, I’m gonna write a bunch of nasty things about this person, so I’m gonna write it under a fake name.”  First of all, you suck.    [R laughs]   Look, if you don’t have the guts to say negative things in public under your own name, then you probably have no business saying them. Whistleblowers are obviously a different story, but we’re not talking about that here. We’re talking about published stories.    R: We’re talking about trolls.   K: Well, we’re talking about reasons you’d wanna use it professionally for—   R: Well, okay, but to be mean to other people is not a professional reason.   K: Yes, exactly. Writing under a pen name will not protect you from defamation and slander charges. Slander is very hard to prove in the U.S., in the U.K. it’s not as hard, for instance. And there have been some pretty famous cases of internationals being taken to court in the U.K. for slander and defamation charges. A pen name does not protect you from that.   A pen name, and I can’t believe I have to say this, but this is something that I kept coming across when doing some research for this. A pen name does not protect you from having to pay taxes!   R: Oh, yes, please don’t think that there’s any reason to not behave like a normal citizen, when you have a pen name.   K: There is, in some corners of the internet—and I did find this mostly in bizarre, fringe-libertarian groups, that would come into discussions and say this—some people, for some reason, think that if you write under a pen name that means that, that person does not legally exist and therefore cannot be taxed.    R, exasperate: That’s… a theory.   K: Yeah, so this is wrong for a few reasons. One of which is, when you write a book under a pen name, you still have to sign a contract when you get it published. And you have to sign your legal name to that contract.   R: And if you’re self-publishing, the same is true for when you register the copyright.   K: Exactly, yeah.   R: And also for setting up your payment account through the various distributors, et cetera. People are gonna know your real name, so as soon as you have to write that out, it has to match your bank account. Like, have a care that this is gonna come back to you.   K: Yeah, so there’s no such thing as a pen name that just exists in a vacuum where there is no possible way to trace this back to you. The only circumstances under which I can imagine that happening are if you create a manuscript, mail it to a publisher, or I don’t know, an article getting published in a newspaper, and want nothing back in return for it. You want no money, you want no attention—   R: Or if you write the thing, sign a different name, bury it in a time capsule, and never admit. And then in 500 years someone finds it, thinks you’re genius, but doesn’t know who you were. But that’s not the kind of career most of us are aiming for.   K: Yeah, if you wanna get paid for your work, you’re going to have to associate—   R: Admit who you are so they can pay you.    K, laughing: That’s exactly… that’s my life. Just having to admit to people who I am.   R: Kaelyn it’s time to admit who you are.   K: I’m gonna have to figure that out and then I’ll get back to you. So, one last thing and, again, I can’t believe I need to say this, but apparently I do. Writing under a pen name also does not help you avoid breach of contract.   R: Noo.   K: This one’s a little less… less.. Maybe there’s a little bit—   R: It depends on how the contract’s written!   K: ...Yes. Then the taxes one. You have to pay taxes no matter what, okay? There’s no escaping taxes. But writing under a pen name does not absolve you of contractual obligations to other books. Now, there can be things written into your contract that say, “You will provide to us three science fiction books.” And let’s say you suddenly really wanna write a nonfiction military history of the Civil War.   R: You can write that!   K: You can write that.   R: The publisher doesn’t want it! They put it in their contract, they want the science fiction books.   K: Yeah, and all contracts are structured differently. Maybe you have a time frame, maybe it’s, “We get to publish the next three books of whatever you generate.”  So, you know, if you switch from military sci-fi to Civil War military history, it doesn’t matter if you’re writing that under a pen name now. They still get that.   R: Yeah.   [33:56] K: So this isn’t, again, you’re not creating a new person here. There is not now—   R: This is not your Get out of Jail Free Card to change your name.    K: Yeah, there is not now a legal entity that exists under this separate name that you created for yourself. There is no person there. It’s just another version of you.   R, laughing: Just like there’s not, not a person, there’s also not a person. Just to be clear.   K: It’s all very existential. There’s a lot of layers here.   R: So, I mean, don’t try to get out of trouble or get out of a contract you don’t like, or anything like that by changing your pen name. That’s not going to work. There are better reasons to have a pen name or not. And some people might start writing under their real name, or might start writing under a pen name and then switch to their real name. There’s also the possibility that later in life you change your mind and then all your books, again this is like Michael Crichton, get rereleased under the more popular name, either posthumously or not, because there’s a better chance that they’ll reach the audience that you’d like. I mean, he wrote in college under a pen name because he didn’t want his professors to think he had too much free time and give him more work.   K: Yeah.   R: Later in life, they changed, they re-released those books under his Michael Crichton name and that was so that people who had already read Jurassic Park and Congo and Andromeda Strain would be like, “Oh my gosh! I thought I’d never get another story from Michael Crichton, but even though he’s dead, there are ten more books I’ve never read of his!” Turns out, you can’t really go back. They were his first books and they read like them. They were not great. But, boy was I excited to think that there were more of them.   So, there’s no final answer in your writing career. You can change it at any time. And some people do choose to rebrand if the, you know, first trilogy they released just kinda didn’t make the splash that they hoped it did. Then, maybe, their publisher drops them. They get picked up by a new publisher. That new publisher may be like, “Hey! Would you consider a new pen name so we can launch you as a debut?” Because there’s a certain amount of excitement, especially in YA, the debut break-through novel is a big deal and that’s what everybody wants, is to discover the next new voice. That next new voice may have already been writing for ten or twenty years. I mean, they keep saying every overnight success is an author who’s been working at this for at least ten years.    K: Yeah. Again, just remember when you’re doing this. You’re not creating a new person. So, yes, you may be creating a new debut author personality. But this is not one of your characters, this is still you, the writer, the person.   R: Oh right, yes. So don’t cosplay as your writer.   K: Yeah, and—   R: Okay, I should actually retract that because Gail Carriger kind of does cosplay as her author self. Which is just to say that she has a visual brand, and when she goes out to conventions she’s going to dress the way that you would expect to see her at conventions. That’s different from writing a backstory for your pen name and then play-acting and half of these things are actually lies about you. If you try to convince someone—    K: Yeah, and—   R: The idea being that you want to be authentic so your readers can connect with you.   K: Do not create a character for yourself to make yourself seem more legitimate. If you’re writing a book in which the main character is a doctor and there’s a lot of medical science and medical science fiction things in there, do not pretend you’re a doctor so that people look and go, “Oh! This person came from a place of real experience!” You’re not creating, again, you’re not creating a fictitious person here.   R: Right. And don’t use it to misrepresent any part of yourself, except for your name.   K: Yeah, exactly. And, look, names are powerful things. There’s a lot of cultures around the world and through history where you maybe didn’t tell people your real name all the time because then they could use it against you.   R: Right. A name has power.   K: Yeah, a name does have power.    R: And for that reason, you may want to change the name that you were born with—not for escaping magical curses and stuff, but you may just—   K: Maybe escaping your family.   R: Yeah. But you may also just not really be totally in love with your name. And so that is a perfectly legitimate reason to just pick a different name. It might be unique, it might be all the things you want. It might be easy to remember, easy to spell, unique enough to come up in search results the way you want. It might even match your genre. But maybe you just don’t like the name. You could change it.    K: Well, I mean, I’ll use me as an example again. In publishing, I think Kaelyn’s a great first name to have. It works. In my professional life, sometimes, it feels a little immature.    R: Right.   K: I wouldn’t change it, it’s my name. I do like my first name.   R: It hasn’t held you back. Or do you feel like it might have?   K: Well, sometimes—and that’s the thing, sometimes I wonder. Now, one of the things I will say about my name is people look at it and frequently read ‘Katelyn’.    R: Right.   K: Very quickly. I—We always had a joke at my job when we’d go out, if we were going out to pick up lunch and you’d tell the people your name, I’d always give them my middle name which is Elizabeth. Because if I gave them Kaelyn, there was no way they were gonna write it down correctly—   R: Or say it correctly in that context, yeah.     K: And then whoever was reading it later was gonna then further butcher whatever they wrote down. So I’d be standing there and the guy would be standing with my sandwich going, “Uh, Carol? Kaylete? Colin?”   R: A-ha! So you are Colin, after all.   K: Oh, what was more of a “KA-lyn.”   R: Oh, okay.   K: So, I do wonder sometimes if that, it does—Now, as I’m solidly in my mid-thirties, I do wonder if it sounds like a younger person’s name. Because I do know some other Kaelyns, they’re all a lot younger than me.    R: Okay. Well there is the generational thing, where every generation has its popular name. I feel like when I was growing up, everyone was named Melissa or Amanda. And so, two years later, if you had that name it was a ‘mature’ name because that was the previous ones. But a couple years past that and it’s like a weird, old, funky name. And then it comes around again.   But, you know, these things—especially when you’re choosing a name, because you get to choose one. All of a sudden you go down rabbit holes of things to think about, all this kind of stuff.   K: Oh, god yeah. You could.   R: You can just close your eyes and be like, “What sounds good? What are letters I like? How do I string them together? Who cares if it’s actually a name?” Although, if you do make up a word, make sure you Google it to make sure it doesn’t mean something awful or sacred to a culture somewhere that you didn’t even consider.   K: So, I will say pen names I’ve made up. I have gone on Wikipedia or This Day in History and found famous people that were born or died or did something significant on my birthday.    R: Okay. Or you can pick the first day of your endeavor or something, the day you finished your draft. Stuff like that.   K: Yeah, and come up with some names that way. I’ve also taken my name and what it translates to in Gaelic, in Irish, and then picked other names—   R: With the same meaning.   K: —from other, yeah, other languages with the same meaning. That were kind of… you know what’s funny is they all kind of sound similar to Kaelyn!   R: I was gonna say. You could also do the Tom Riddle thing and just go for an anagram.   K: I have one of those. It was not easy to come up with.   R: Yeah, it depends on the selection of letters you start with.   K: Yeah, yeah. So, look, there’s lots of different ways to pick one, especially if you want it to be significant or meaningful to you. But if you’re doing it, as we said at the beginning of the episode, from an author perspective, keep in mind that you are going to be using this to sell your book.   R: Right.   [42:25]   K: And it may not be what you want to hear, but branding and planning accordingly is only going to help you sell the book.   R: Yep, yep. Meeting reader expectations. I gotta say. If you’re gonna write sci-fi, you don’t want a name that sounds like you’re a romance author.    K: Yeah. So maybe you loved your grandmother to death and she was just this beautiful, wonderful woman who encouraged you and helped you to get your start writing and so you want to honor her and make your pen name [in a v. French accent] Eleanor de Fleur.   R: Mhm.   K: That’s probably not the best name to write science fiction under.   R: Right, right. You don’t want anything that sounds too cursive. Like, it needs to be written in some sort of cursive calligraphy. Just think of the fonts faces and think of how cool the name will look written in those font faces, as opposed to what the name’s screaming out for.   K: If you’re mentally pronouncing anything with a French accent like I just did, that’s maybe not the direction—   R: Hey! There are decent French science fiction authors out there.   K: Oh, absolutely! But, you know—   R: But they all use pen names!   K, laughing: That’s because French is a very confusing language. You get words with like ten letters in them and you only pronounce four.   R: Yeah. And speaking of confusing, there’s also the pen name for joint-author endeavours.    K: Oh, yeah! That’s another good reason to use a pen name is collaboration.   R: Yeah, so maybe you don’t want both names on the cover. You’d rather just silo it and write, especially if you plan to continue this together, write with one new pen name that you pick together.   K: Yeah.   R: Then, be prepared if you are entering into a contract with a traditional publisher, that they might actually push back on your pen name. For the reasons that we’ve talked about, they may say, “This doesn’t really fit the genre. Can we fiddle with it?” or “Hey, let’s just use your real name.” I have a friend who had a pen name and when she got picked up, the publisher was just like, “Nah, we just wanna use your real name, it’s way more unique.” So…   K: And they might push back for the opposite of the reason I stated earlier. Maybe you’re writing military science fiction and you were a pilot in the Air Force for a long time. They’re gonna say, “No, we want people to look this up and see that you’re writing about stuff you know.” Like, your credentials lend themselves to your success at that point.   R: Mhm.   K: So, yeah, I mean publishers always have an opinion about everything. So, don’t think your name was gonna be—they even will have an opinion about your name.   R: They absolutely will. Although, you may be able to make a case for it. Colin did ask, like, “Are you sure you don’t wanna write as Rekka Jay?” I was like, “Well, no? I have a pen name, thank you.” I had a reason. And, you know, he was fine with it. It wasn’t like it doesn’t sound like a science fiction author’s name. But he was like, “Rekka Jay’s a cool name, so…”   K: Rekka Jay is a cool name. That’s the thing.   R: But it was a matter of, like, I would rather keep it separate from when people are searching, that they’re gonna find something other than the Rekka Jay. That was my decision, but obviously I’m not using it to hide. It is literally SEO purposes. It’s like key words. I’m choosing the keywords that people are going to find me for.    K: Yup. Yeah, so, that’s pen names. If you’re gonna use one, make sure you use one that’s gonna be to your advantage.   R: Yup.   K: Whatever reason you have for using it, there’s no reason it can’t work for you.   R: And take the time and play around with a couple different ones. This is something that you’re going to have to live with for a while. It’s not choosing a box of cereal, it’s choosing the paint for your den wall. You know? So you want to really be okay with it, before you move ahead and commit to it.   K: Yep. Hey, if you, uh—Everyone Tweet at us what your favorite, weird pen name is that you’ve come across. Or the thing that you were most surprised by, to learn was not somebody’s actual name. I think mine was Anne Rice, mostly because then I found out her first name is actually Howard.    R: Yeah, that one’s just got, like. That’s gotta be a two-parter, as opposed to just, “Oh, that’s not your name? Oh, that’s a shame.”   K: Yeah. Or you can be like Ben Franklin and all you did was write to newspapers and pamphlets and stuff under different names. Let’s see, he had Richard Saunders for a certain personality. There was Constance Dogood, yeah, clearly fake names but the point was that he was writing to newspapers exalting revolutionary American ideas, and writing trying to appeal to a certain group of people.    R: Right. Saying the things that would make that group agree with him and to sway their opinion.   K: He was saying things that he wanted everyone to hear, but knew that they would hear it better, if you will, coming from Constance Dogood versus Benjamin Franklin.   R: Right.   K: Which was very smart and insightful, especially for the time. Although that was fairly commonplace back then, to uh…   R: Which is so bizarre to me because we think of our common news production situation as being less honest these days. But you go back and like, everybody’s always been writing in under fake names and all this kind of stuff. So I say it was a matter of ego, but it was more like, “You must listen to me! And I will make you listen to me by faking who I’m speaking as!”   K: Well, it’s the same way. He’s trying to appeal to a certain group of readership.   R: Yep. So, that’s what we’re telling you. Go out and make people listen to you by appealing to a certain group of readers that can connect with the name.    And, you know, it is ultimately up to you. There are pros and cons to both. Eventually, you know, your contracts might get more intricate and having a pen name might make them slightly more difficult, but you’re probably not writing them, so that probably isn’t going to, at least, create more work for you. Just, you know, you’ll have to be more careful about reading them. But I hope you’re careful about reading your contracts anyway!   K: Yes! READ YOUR CONTRACT. I’m going to make a mug.   R, laughing: How did we come back around to that?   K: We always come back around to it, because given the option I will always state: Read Your Contract.   R: Yeah. And so, yeah, thing to remember is that just writing under a pen name is not going to hide you from the world. It’s not going to protect you from legal issues. And it’s not going to make you impossible to find, it’s just a thing that you do. It puts up  a certain measure of distance from your legal name and day-to-day personality. But it doesn’t… I mean, eventually you probably are at least going to hint that it’s not your real name. It doesn’t mean that you, say, I’m coming out as my real name. It just means, you know, eventually it’s going to get awkward to keep pretending that that’s your real name.   But if you have the right person, or the wrong person, decide that they’re gonna come after you, it’s probably not going to be enough. Because they’re gonna know where to look.   K: Yeah, look, in this day and age of the internet, there’s—Unfortunately, there’s no hiding forever. If somebody wants to find you badly enough, they’re going to. But it’s okay! Because, as Rekka said, the point of your pen name should not be to hide. If it is, maybe consider publishing.   R: Yeah, becoming a public figure. Yeah, it’s sad to say that you just can’t be an anonymous writer and collect your writing check because in this day and age, people feel like they’re paying for access to you as well.   K: Yeah, yeah. You are your writing. You are your brand. It’s, you know, go back and listen to our social media episode. We talk quite a lot about that. But pen names, they’re fun. Grab one, if you feel like it.   R: Yeah! And you don’t have to commit to it. You can still play around with just coming up with names. You might find one and be like, “I’m gonna save that. I’m gonna use that someday.” But you can relaunch your career at any point with a pen name, so if you’re happy or you’ve already started writing under one name, you don’t have to switch it if you come up with another good one. I mean, it can just be a character name. So, it’s up to you. If you come up with too many good names, maybe just use your real name and leave the good name creations to the characters in your books.   But if you find one of these reasons we’ve mentioned resonates with you, then that might be a good reason to try it. And if you aren’t published yet, it’s pretty simple to change your name at this point.   K: Yep.   R: Just change the name that you put on the byline in your next submission and you’re on your way.   K: Yup. Yeah, so, that’s pen names.   R: That’s, I think, everything we have to say about them.    K: So, um, as always. Thank you for listening. We hope, I guess, by the time this comes out… I don’t know, maybe quarantining, social distancing may start being lifted?   R: As we record this, more Starbucks stores have opened.   K: Okay.   R: I’m not sure that’s wise, but that’s what’s happening.   K: Well, we’ll go by the Starbucks metric, certainly.   R: I did hear that Disney Springs will start, I think, opening some stores. So Disney’s coming back. That’s a very telling metric.   K: Well, yeah. But the parks are not gonna open till next year, I understand.   R: So that’s… that they are even thinking about opening Disney Springs which can also be as crowded as a park sometimes. That’s pretty telling.   K: Well, we’ll go by the Starbucks metric. Society is measured based on what Starbucks is doing.   R, skeptical: Yeah… I don’t know how I feel about that.   K, laughing: Look, there’s a sad and uncomfortable truth in life that we need to face, Rekka, and that is that many people are entirely dependent on coffee in order to function as human beings.    R: I know you’re aiming that at me, but I’ll have you know that with my radiation treatment, I haven’t really been wanting coffee lately. So, uh, I don’t even know who I am anymore.   K: Oh, I can see. You’ve got a tea bag in that mug. Wow. Welcome to—   R: It’s also a throat coat because I’m gonna start having a sore throat with the radiation as well. There’s my little update, so if you were wondering how the cancer treatment’s going. I’m in good spirits, but I am ready to be done with radiation and on the other side of it and back to drinking coffee, hopefully. Although I don’t know if I will ever taste it the same again, based on the nerves they’re killing.   K: I have a feeling you and coffee will find your way back to each other.   R: One hopes. Actually, you know, if I had to choose between tasting coffee and tasting rib-eye, I think I would probably go for the rib-eye.   K: Well I knew that, yeah. I mean, yeah.   R: There’s more nutrition in rib-eye than coffee. And, you know, coffee only gets you so far. [long pause] I can’t believe I just said that. Who am I?    K, laughing: Well, you’re R.J. Theodore.   R: Oh, right! That person can drink tea and not eat steak every night and be perfectly happy.   K: Yeah, yeah. That’s what’s going on there. So, thanks everyone for listening! As always, you can find us on the socials.   R: That’s @wmbcast on Twitter and Instagram, and we are also at Patreon.com/wmbcast, where we would absolutely love your support if you’re able to. If you aren’t able to, what really helps us is to share our episodes with a friend who might find the content interesting, or just leave us a rating and review on Apple podcasts. That would be super helpful.   K, robotic: Feed the algorithm, people!   R: That is the one that really, really warms our dark hearts on a cold night. So, if you could do that, we’d really appreciate it. And we will talk to you on social, or we will talk to you in two weeks!   K: Stay safe, everyone!   [outro music plays]

Welcome back to the fuel your legacy podcast. Each week we expose the faulty foundational mindsets of the past and rebuild a newer, stronger foundation essential in creating your meaningful legacy. We've got a lot of work to do. So let's get started.As much as you like this podcast, I'm certain that you're going to love the book that I just released on Amazon, fuel your legacy, the nine pillars to build a meaningful legacy. I wrote this to share with you the experiences that I had while I was identifying my identity, how I began to create my meaningful legacy, and how you can create yours. You're gonna find this book on Kindle, Amazon, and as always on my website, Sam Knickerbocker calm.Welcome back to fuel your legacy show and we are excited. I'm always excited every time I get to meet new people, learn more about them. It's always an exciting moment right now. We're still kind of in the midst of the hopefully onlineOn the latter half of the Coronavirus, quarantine, so a lot of people say weird things because they're kind of delusional at this point but it's gonna be a good podcast Anyways, I'm season. I love this I love getting to hear people's experiences and where they are and how they became who they are today. So today we are going to be talking todasiaArnold, sorry, I missed her last name, Dacia Arnold, and she's an author, mom Superwoman in her eyes, and I'm sure in many other people's eyes, I'm excited for you to get to hear her story of where she came from, what she thought was her passion and what she ultimately came out believing was or passionate and what she's doing now. I feel that your story will be relatable to you. And maybe that you once had a passion or you thought something was going to be how your life was going to go. And then it didn't go that way.But it turned out better. So I'm excited for her and we're gonna let her take it away. Okay, thanks.Yeah, it's it's a crazy world we live in. But, but I'm really excited to share about my life. My background isI, I left home really early, my parents split up when I was 15. And I went to go live with relatives. So when it came time for me to be an adult, I went back to, to what I knew my dad growing up was in the military. And so I decided that I was going to chase my dad's legacy and join the military just to kind of bridge this gap of like a relationship with my father. And so I did this, I joined the military. I wanted to be as close to combat as possible, but back when I joined that didn't existbefore MyleneAnd but they did say they're like, you know, you scored high enough on this test they could really just pick whatever you want it. So I decided to become a medic and jump into the medical field.So I am joined the army after 911 says like 2014 when I joined the military, I worked in a combat support hospital. I worked in Baghdad emergency room so they made a TV show about my unit Baghdad er is an HBO documentary.And then I came homeand decided to stick with it. I signed another contract. So when overseas again.And at the end of the day, like my my big goal was to, you know, build that relationship with my dad. And it really did. I was able to call my dad and ask him for career advice. I even was able to get stationed in the same place for him.He retired. So then like we he lived down the street from me, it was great.Then I had a son. And I thought that I could be one of those combat boot moms. And you know, I know many women who are and they're successful and they're great. I was not one of them. As soon as that little boy came into the world, I immediately noticed there was no, I didn't own anything. The government owned everything to include by time, my home, my family, me, every, every extension of me, and there was no black and white. So I didn't like not having that boundary of family. And so and this is and now I'm saying this now, but this is this should have been like my first marker where I was on the wrong path.And so I decided not to sign another contract with the military and finished outMy time my son was a year old. My husband who had also got out of the military decided to join the railroad. So he drives trains for the railroad here in Colorado.I went to work, I think I was I was able to be home for maybe about 10 months before I was really climbing the walls and living a life of constantly like being constantly engaged and to being a stay at home mom just really didn't mesh well with me. So going back to work for a hospital here in Denver.You know, it was, it was starting over, I had to take an entry level position, because instead of going to college, I joined the military, so I didn't have a college degree. And so when I got out of the military, my dad also he published a science fiction book, and I read this same fiction book and I was like, oh,Yeah, if dad can do it, I can do it. And this is this will be another way for me and my dad to really bond and, and since then like he had gotten married and has he has a son and and he has a you know his own family now and and me and my siblings are all grown and have our own children but I was like yeah I can I can do this I became a mom and he's you know, a dad to a younger kid, you know, we could bond bonds more because I'm always chasing my dad's legacy always.So then I wrote a science fiction novel, I wrote 544 science fiction novels, um, and and just really kind of blew up in the industry really, really fast. Whereas my dad didn't and come to find out like this one thing was supposed to be his thing, like something that nobody else in this family did and it really just kind of droveThe wedgebetween my father and let it land my father and I and so I don't. Now I don't share about my literary career or anything like that.So, that being said, I had another baby, and still working at the hospital, my daughter got really, really sick. And so it's like illnesses that would give a normal kid like a runny nose, put my daughter in the ICU four times in a year.So that was scary. So I had to quit my job at the hospital and stay at home with her. And this again, lasted for about 10 months. And then she was out of the hospital for an extended period of time. I was like, okay, Mama needs to go back to work now. So I went back to work at the hospital. While I was working at the hospitals working on my degree. I finished my degree, my bachelor's in English. I'm thinking that I'm going to continue thiswriting career.Um, I didn't, I actually applied for a few other jobs to include Department of Public Health here in Colorado.Andtaking this so, so my current position with public health and this is where I decided that this is where I need to go.I worked in the emergency room my entire career, I've worked in a hospital settingbut the same time that I was leaving the emergency room was the same time this Coronavirus really hit. And so I had to make a choice to stay in the emergency room where I have trained my entire adult life on the medical response of biological hazards or leave and go to this next kind of higher echelon ofstrategic planning of healthcare, which I've never been a part of,but it was more money.And I transition from working on the frontlines to working on a different kind of frontline but at home with my family and staying safe so I did that it was really hard for me.I have this inherent need to just save everybody from everything. So taking a step back and working from home, I felt like I was not making the most of my life experiences.Then come to find out I'll get a phone call later on. That Well, my my division.My director, the director of my division has been tasked now to man one of the overflow facilities from the one of our convention centers here in Denver and I have been identified asAs one of their logistical people who has the key experience to work with the National Guard in this facility, like on the back on the front lines, but in a higher level of engagement. And I, you know, it's scary is scary because I know at some point I'm going to get sick. But at the same time, I have never felt more validated in my life to have gone on this long string of following my dad and following my dad and trying to fill these shoes to actually have my own shoes to fill. Like if this isexciting for me. It's engaging and it's something I'm very, very passionate about. So that's where we are today. Awesome. I love it. So I have lots of questions and things that I just want to point out. I think this is interesting from a I studied neuro psychology. So my myI currently help people with money, learn how money works, because I think that's most important. And and for me, I believe it's directly connected to mental health. When I looked in the research, the more and more mental health issues and, andsocial issues, domestic violence, things like that were happening in lower socioeconomic households rather than in in higher socioeconomic households. It's not that it doesn't happen, like, people say like, well, it still happens. I know it still happens. But when it happens, they have the money to take care of it the way they need to. If you get depressed, and you're broke, you don't get to go to a psychologist, you get to go find drugs or die like it's just a different situation. So to pretend it the same is false. And it comes down to how well you understand how money works. So it's not that psychologists aren't needed, it's not that psychiatrist aren't needed all those people. They have a job to do. It's just not where I want it to be. Because then give me the lifestyle that I wanted or the income so I teach people how toMoney works.And that's okay. But I think it's interesting. And when we're looking at this, the I have 11 siblings, but I have 10 said when I'm seven of 11 and you can see, it's sureyes.But But it's interesting, the idea of going to basically whatever lengths to build a familiar relationship with your, with your dad. And and, and I don't know where your mom is that's one of my questions Where's your mom at and maybe that's a touchy subject, but I'm curious. It is it is. So um, she's in in one of those situations that you explained that the the socio economical, like she's never had to take care of herself. So when my so my dad being in the military was always like the breadwinner. So when that was when they were no longer a thing. It kind of left my motherThey'rein, in limbo financially, and she just never got out of it. So she turned to you know, like you mentioned drugs and, and, you know, not not good home relationships. Yeah, so something fascinating about that there's a book called story selling for financial advisors. Very interesting book, it's worth a read. But one, they spend a whole chapter or two chapters in this book, specifically talking about why it's absolutely essential for women in the family to get financially educated, it doesn't matter. Like it's so and it's older way of thinking, and you have to look at like the sociology of how we develop as a country. But the man earned the money and the man determined how the money was going to be spent. That was the case for a long time. And so the women never got to make decisions really, but yet, they were actually the people who are making decisions. Most of them they were the ones who are paying the electricity bills. They were the ones who going to the grocery store and shopping. They were the onesWere using the money but when it came to decision making, they weren't visions. And so the confidence or the identity of being good with money was never there. Not that they weren't good with money. They were good with money their whole life. Just somebody else was providing it. The moment they were now responsible for providing and managing, it's their identity wasn't there? Anyways, it's a very fascinating social construct. That's kind of what I assume so I was trying to go about that.Softly What about the word? sensitively? delicately. Yeah. Isthe desire to have a relationship with your with your parents was a driving force in where you're going, you're still living, not necessarily somebody else's dream completely, but living a life in a way that you could seek for greater connection. And we all do that we all at one level or another, seek or live our lives in a way to get greaterconnection. In fact, there's a I don't know if you've heard of Steve siebold. Buthe has a book called the 177. Mental Toughness Secrets of the world class did mental toughness training for Navy SEALs for a number of years. And one of the things he says is that by the age eight years old, addiction to the approval of others, is stronger than any other day addiction that we know of. Right? And it's that addiction that is, soit's not necessarily a bad thing. Addiction isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's what are you addicted to? Andwhen you're young, you don't really have the ability to think, Okay, I'm going to be addicted to what I want more than what I think somebody else wants. And so it's really easy for us to go down this pathway of fulfilling a role that we think somebody else will accept us better in, right, I want to create connection, so I'm going to fulfill this role to hopefully get connectionAnd that and the systemic problems that we're probably not going to get into today. But I think it's interesting. She was willing to put her life on the line front lines of military, for connection. What I The reason I bring this up is because what or if you're a parent or a sibling, or a child,what are the people around you that people who supposedly love you the most or that you should love the most, quote unquote? What are they potentially willing to do to be recognized by you and to connect? What lengths are they willing to do? That you might think, why do you keep doing this? It's because they want connection. And maybe the only time you you recognize them is when they do something that you don't agree with.It's so easy to createadverseresults in life because of what we're trying is ultimately to get connection. And so I invite you to push pauseOn this podcast and connect with somebody that you've been thinking about, you've been meaning to connect with, but you haven't connected with because life gets in the way. Well, they still need to be connected to so especially more than any other time in the world Coronavirus. People need connection. Okay, so please feel free to reach out and connect with somebody because connection is what drove. And again, it's not necessarily a bad thing that day she went there but drove her into the military frontlines. You know, that's an I, I heard Gary Vee that say this on a podcast yesterday. And I was like, Well, I'm not the only one who says it verbally. But he's like, Look, when a war breaks out, I won't be anywhere on that battlefield. I'll be running the other way. I know it's super unmanly to say, but that's me. And I fully am on board with him. Like I'm the most pacifist. Like I love you. Oh, you want to stab me? I still love you.Like, I don't know. I just I doI see myself my self concept is not a defender, and my wife is super uneasy about that sometimes I'm like, Look, it is what it isnot the most manly thing to say on podcast, but it's true. And, and so that's, that's crucial. It's interesting. When you got a when you recognize that you didn't own anything and the government owned anything.Like what was that? What was that initial feeling like if you were to describe that feeling how you felt in that moment where you essentially, there was nothing of your own because there's lemon, I believe, and men who are going through the same feeling, if not because of physical things that they don't own, but their identity, they don't own any part of their identity anymore because they've given it away to their children to their, their work to their house, whatever, and they don't own anything. They don't know who they are. It's a very similar feeling. So describe that feeling for me.So describe the feeling of not owninganything, it's just really there's this there's this sense ofambiguity that there's, you just got it. So every day is you're kind of just on autopilot, you're like there's nothing that's going to immediately change my circumstances. So today, I have to do XYZ to get through the day. In the military, it's not like when you get fed up, you just put in your two weeks notice and you quit. It's a contract. So you're bound to this contract and the consequences of breaking said contract the paperwork, extensive, but also the punitive actions aren't in sync. If you get in trouble at your job. If If you work like a traditional nine to five job, you'll get like a written warning, you'll get maybe a coaching a plan of action. In the military, they take half of your pay for a month to two months. Like this is your livelihood and thenJust it is insane. The amount of control that I wouldn't say the government as an entity, but actual people, tangible people have over your life to make a decision that says, oh, that look on your face is disrespectful. And so we're going to punish you for it. It is insane. Like, at that it is it is insane. I would never be part of it. And in my in my position and I, I worked with wounded ill and injured soldiers as they transition transitioned, unplanned from the military into civilian lifedue to any kind of medical condition, and a lot of these were mental illnesses. And so I have to make both men and grohmann and grown women fully accountable for like identity.They paid their bills and they clean their house and they mowed their lawn and took their trash out and were at their appointments on time and weren't dressed in the right uniform. It's just, it was too much for me and to, to have these people who didn't care about my job or what I said, or what I did require more time of me away from my family. It was just you know, I, I've got 12 months of this left, and then at least there is like a light at the end of this tunnel, there is an end in sight. If I had four more years left on that, I don't know.Anyone with mental illness, and they would have beenbut but what really drove me through this time was to do the right thing, like I would just know, like, the military is very black and white. There's policies like you just doThe right thing to keep yourself out of trouble and hold these people to a standard and maintain a standard yourself and that's really what got me through the real life's not like the military real life. It's not like there are no rules. But I think that's when I when I got out of the military I was the one thing that I realized is that there is no way people have to treat each other with respect and it was just kind of a culture shock for me really. It's interesting as well, kind of moving forward in your story that you went from this place of like extreme structure, which I have like the ultimate complex of authority in my life, probably due to my childhood as well.parts but like I don't even like I don't love holding to a daily routine or schedule even though like every successful person says it they live and die by and like I don't, I don't like having a schedule because now I'm dictating what I hate it right.For me, I have it some some issues there. But you went from this extremely structured area of life to one. Being a mom. There's no structure there. Even if you wish there was structure, there's no structure with your sleep with your food with changing diapers with your day napping, there's no structure, you can try and create structure and more power to you. And the happiest people that I know who are parents have zero structure, they just go with the flow every day.But, but more importantly, the next kind ofI wouldn't even say career path you went to was writing fiction,which has like it's the opposite of structure. It's like that you go from crazy structure where there there is no coloring outside the lines to you get to create the lines, what color the lines are in, and like you're creating your entire second universe. It's such a for me, it's a weird contrast. LikeWhat was it for you stepping from one to the next? What's really interesting that you say that so you would think fiction is just the imaginary, the abstract and just playing around with stuff that doesn't exist. But actually, the physical craft of writing is very regimented. And so there is a left brain and right brain approach to writing and I was able to, like marry these things together. So I would schedule time to write I would have a writing goal for the day. I, they call it in the industry, we write by the seat of our pants, we call it pantsing versus planning. And so I just pants this entire story. And really what this was, was my coping mechanism of getting out of the military and no longer being identified within an institution.So like, for example, and this is kind of the premise ofMy story, crap hits the fan. And I'm no longer a part of this institution where I have a role. I have a job, I know my job, I know everyone else's job and can rely on them for survival. And to being a mother with all this knowledge and crap hitting the fan. And I don't, I no longer have to just worry about keeping myself alive and other adults alive. But I've these little people that I have to keep alive.And so it was kind of thiswould I make it? Would they make it would we be okay, and so that was the whole fiction, and I just needed to make sure I could do it. Not write the book, but could could be successful at keeping these people alive if crap hit the fan. Yeah, no, I love it. And I think another thing that's interesting about because if you ever played d&d,Do you know what that is done? I know what it is. Yeah. Okay. You look like blank. I was like, does she know what I'm talking about? So I don't want to pretend. But I know. Okay, so so what's interesting about this is I'm somebody who so although is creative space and and the actual science fiction aspect of it, there are creative aspects. Writing is super regimented. But she just described what made her and I don't I don't know why your dad didn't do as good, right? I'm not saying I'm not pretending that but I do think that there's the people who are most successful at creating card games that I know personally and creating.DND are these types of like, everything's in their head and they have to write backstories and for all their characters. The thing that's fascinating isthey're there as she said, there's a level of creativity, but she has to be able to maintain complete knowledge of every aspect ofWhat that person can and can't do in life and should and shouldn't do. They're, they're in positions to a certain things and understand these people. So her her job actually created her,created a circumstance that made that moreable to happen and give her more feedback to create a great science fiction novel or book or story, because she could compartmentalize all those different characters. So it's interesting how you, it's creative, but it's also a structured event, like you said.It's fascinating. Writing is something difficult for me, personally, to express myself. So that's good to hear. But I'm curious The other thing because now we're moving into I want to hit on this before we gettoo far into this but I want to hit on it with the just because it's the time and I have you here and you work in it.I just see the news. So all I can see is the news. And who knows if it's accurate, and there's there's plenty of people out there who escaped both sides. So I don't know. Like nobody knows what the truth is, personally.And you can hex me or whatever. Personally, I choose to live a life that whatever, like if I get too sick, I get sick. If not, if not, whatever, like I can't control too much about my life. So I'm just going to be happy and do my thing.But like, from your experience being on the front lines now of the Coronavirus from the ER, moving out of that, and then into now planning scale, like how what's your been? What's been your experience of the Coronavirus in these circumstances?And I feel bad I will say, but yeah, so every so everything that I'm going to say is public knowledge. There's no there's no kind of behind the scenes.Anything like that, and I'm speaking for myself and not as a representative of my organization. And so, the So, so a lot of people have your stance, like if I, if I get sick, I get sick, just like if I get the flu, I'm just kind of going about my life, right? Well, the thing is, um, and I'm going to use you as just a generic, you know, it's not about you. It's not, you know, I'm going to get sick and that's okay. It's my responsibility to ensure that I'm not going to be the reason somebody doesn't have their grandmother anymore.So it makes sense. So I could have had it already. I could have not had it yet. I don't know. testings not widely available yet. But if you are one of those magical unicorn people who do contract the virus and do not have any symptoms or have like suchMinor symptoms, you don't even notice it, whether it's allergies, or if it's a virus, you could go out and can, you know, continue about your life and maybe somebody's grandmother is, you know, going to the grocery store because she didn't have anyone to go to the grocery store. And then there's an exchange. Sure, you know, and it and it smacks that granny really. So here's so here's my, here's my, here's my debate. I love debating. And I and by the way, I have no idea about what I say is true half the time. Okay. This is my thought process, right?Every level of our life from from government, right because government or is one who said in the standards, we have what's called an acceptable loss, right? We have we have a certainspeed limits based on acceptable loss. We have certain car testing standards based on acceptable loss. We have all of these things based on acceptable loss. And so I get it at some but I could be the reason that somebody doesn't have a grandmacould also be the reason somebody doesn't have a grandma because I pulled in front of I ran a red light or I was texting and driving or just nothing happened and somebody sat on their brakes a deer ran in front of us, right? There's so like living in that type of from my perspective.Any life is too much is not practical. And sofor me it's more of like what's an acceptable loss and do I really believe that not everybody's gonna get eventually anyways? I think if it's like the flu Look, it's like, at what point is Sweden what they're doing just saying, Hey, you guys social distance everybody else out there life is safely but we're all going to get it mastering herd immunity. Yes, there's going to be loss. I'm not arguing whether there's loss. For me. It just seems that like,there's got to be that whatever that number is that we say whatever it is what it is, is it worth? I'm from a financial perspective, is it worth causing mass depression, mass suicide, greater levels of domestic violence? Is it worth causingwhat's what's the acceptable loss? Right now? We're trying to save a few people from a disease which I'm not saying is bad, but we haven't even hit the ramifications of homes going under people being living in streets like that we have no idea the ramifications just like we have no idea the ramifications of what happens if we don't social distance and, and going on, right. So it's, it's a scale this isn't for me. So I'm just curious what your, your perspective is. Okay. So, um, the immediate loss of Yes, everyone's going to get it and those people are going to die are eventually going to die.Is what you're saying, and I get it. I really do. It's the thing of our hospital systems being overwhelmed. people dying that didn't need to die. people having resources to save their lives versus those resources not being available for everyone that needs them. And that is a major piece of the social distancing. The thing about flowersThe curb, like instead of having a big spike, so the big spikes went all at once. And the flattening of the curve is not a flat curve that makes no sense like, so it's just kind of, we just, it's going to be a long haul thing. It has to be a long haul thing for the survivability of people who have a chance. So it makes sense. So if I'm say, I'm 35 years old, I'm fairly healthy, but this thing, you know, yeah, I'm in a neat event. And there are no events available. But if I had event available, I would come out the other end. Okay. But I couldn't get event so I'm just not going to make it.Sure. So I'm not I'm not at all I'm you know, 35. And yeah, chances are, I mean, chances in our age group is super a lot less than Oh, yeah, yeah, there's the I mean, there's that where it's like,anyways, right, but there are people there still people our age that do need the ventilator. Yeah, or I just don'tDon't know what the I guess, I guess my position and you you've seen this from battlefields to to now. I mean, Denver is not a small city it's not a giant city by any stretch of the imagination I compared to in New York. It's not I mean, it's like salt lake compared to Denver. It's not very, not really the same.But I think that the, for me, I guess we don't have enough more information to really know but like, what what's the acceptable loss meter going to be set at of this long term?and How bad is it reallylong term. And and so that's that's the one side of it the other side of it. And this isn't super popular opinion. Don't listen if you don't appreciate this, but there's also reality thatalthough standard, no mortality ratesbeen getting longer as in people have been living longer,um, quality of life in your later years is declining. It's not increasing. So yes, just because we can sustain life, there's an argument to be made to sustain life. But if we're sustaining life with a bad a very low quality of life, is it worth sustaining life? I know is that your choice to make? Well, I Well, is it your so if whose choice to make is it this is a question 100 years ago, the choice to make was, you died because you got a disease. So now we're whose choice is it tokeep people alive, even if they don't want to be alive. And that's still not legally allowed in our country to say for somebody say, I don't want to be alive anymore. Sorry, we can't euthanize you. So we're going the full extent of medical abilities and that's what it is. I don't really have a foot in either camp. It's just all the things that go through my head like okay, where like whose choice is hewhose voices are these make? Because whose choices to make to make it so people can't provide for their family or have to live on street because they can't pay rent. And there's so many financial and fiscal fiscally important questions that are answered in the name of what's the financial cost, right? So for $4 million or something is what it costs for everybody to die. Not score for four, I think it's for 4 million last I looked for in a car accident if you die in a car accident, the acceptable loss is like $4 million dollars worth of worth it per individual who dies in a car accident, which is crazy, but that's the number that the government chose. And so all their standards are if if adding a new seatbelt to a car is going to cost everybody if it's going to cost more thanfour thousand dollars per individual. We're going to save we we're not going to require it. If it's less than four, then we're going to require rightThere's that those are their standards and most people don't know about these standards, but they're there you can go Google. These standards are in every area of life. So what is that standard here? And what's fiscal cost that we're willing to endure? To save our money lives we're gonna save. Okay?So your stance is we need to open up the economy regardless of loss of life due to the virus. I'm not necessarily I just don't know I don't know what the stance is. I don't really have a stance I'm going to work like I say I don't have a stance I just am curious like what people other people's opinions are. You're you're somebody who actually like is qualified to have an opinion.I have a lot of friends who we all think this is all stupid because nobody we know has it but that I mean, that's not true. I know four or five people who actually have had it but the point is like, compared to how many people I know. Have it. Here's a good example for a man. Okay, well, you Salt Lake City, soSuper quick you guys are do you do for a giant earthquake? I'm not one like 5.7 or so yeah, you've had a few you have like one every day. Yeah, but it can happen. It's true though. There is actually FEMA and the state of Colorado, the state of Utah, not Wyoming so much. So, there, there are many entities involved in the planning for the Super earthquake in Salt Lake City.For four people out of context, 80% of the population in Utah is in Salt Lake City in the valley. So when this earthquake hits, it's gonna it's going to devastate everything, and they're what I don't even know the projected magnitude of the big one.But, but these, this is a real scenario that other states are planning for. So we have a plan to take all of the patients that are currently in Salt Lake City into ourhospitals in Colorado. And I think even Arizona is planning on taking some. So we have this plan in place. And FEMA, everybody, everybody, the government, everyone has a plan in place for when this happens if it happens, but they say when it happens.So we know who's in charge. We know who's in charge of routing all these patients who's in charge of taking ambulatory patients out of the city and transferring them vehicle on vehicles into the state but we have all this planned out.I say we but the state government headerOkay, say this happens during the virus.No, we just told you all there. No, we don't leave you all there. You know what I mean? We do we save lives, you know, you know, and when you it's like, okay, let us in

[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKKjlDNUwFk] Today’s podcast featuring the roundtable talks about the controversial relaunch of the OKI brand. We examine the potential motivating factors behind New Riff selling the label and if it’s a pure money grab by the new company that owns it. We then look at the current landscape of craft distillers and if they will survive the COVID-19 conditions as over 43% of all craft distillery workers have now been laid off or furloughed. Lastly, we see an age statement return to Knob Creek. Show Partners: You can now buy Barrell Craft Spirits products online and have them shipped right to your door. Visit BarrellBourbon.com and click Buy Now. Receive $25 off your first order at RackHouse Whiskey Club with code "Pursuit". Visit RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. Show Notes: This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about buying whiskey for cheap during the pandemic. OKI is being relaunched with new ownership. Why would New Riff do this and is it a money grab? 118 craft distillers surveyed recently, 42% said they do not believe they will able to stay in business for more than three months with COVID-19. Is the craft boom going to bust? The return of 12 and 9 year Knob Creek. What does this mean for private barrel selections? Thanks to Blake from bourbonr.com, Nick from BreakingBourbon.com , Brian from sippncorn.com, and Kerry from Subourbia for joining. Support this Podcast on Patreon   0:00 There's two things you can count on on the roundtable. That's I'm gonna be here and that my Internet's gonna go out. 0:17 Welcome back because it's Episode 253 of bourbon pursuit. I'm one of your hosts Kenny. And on our news this week, we selected a barrel of wheat whiskey from old elk. But we're also joined by special guest and master distiller Greg Metz, you might recall back from Episode 154, because he was also the previous master distiller for that big factory in Indiana we call MGP virtual barrel picks, they might be the new normal for a while, so we're looking forward to bringing more of those to you via live streams. So make sure that you are subscribed to our YouTube channel, so you don't miss a single one of them. Now onto the news. Will it distilleries master distiller drew Cole's Veen has been named a finalist for the coveted James Beard award. 1:00 Award for Outstanding wine, beer or spirits producer. The James Beard Foundation awards honor the best in food dining from cookbooks and rising shifts to the best restaurants and of course distilleries in the US. Time magazine even called it the Oscars of the food world. Drew Colvin first joined Willett distillery back in 2003. And overtime, he's developed mash bills that extend the company's bourbon and rye portfolio, which earned him for semi finalists nominations for the James Beard award. However, this is the first year that he's actually been named a finalist. So hats off to drew congratulations and awesome work on the recognition. The winners for the James Beard awards will be announced on September 25. 1:42 The 2020 release of the mixers 10 year old single barrel Kentucky straight bourbon whiskey will go on sale this may of 2020 it is 94.4 proof and it will sell for suggested retail price for around $130 in the US new bottles of larceny barrel proof and alarm 2:00 Craig barrel proof will be coming soon to a shelf near you both bearing the code B five to zero. The letter B means it's the second release of the year. digit five means it was released in the fifth month of the year, which is May. And the last two digits, you guessed it 2020 denote the year. The new batch of Elijah Craig barrel proof will come in at 127.2 which is on the lower end of the spectrum for the line. And the larceny barrel proof is now in its second release when you bottle that 122.2 proof and that's just one point lower than the initial first release, comprised of barrels ranging from six to eight years old. The larceny barrel proof will have a retail price of around $50 whereas the 12 year old Elijah Craig barrel proof will be around $80 you can look for both of these coming to a whiskey quickie in the near future. For those that enjoy the shutter Bock, we're from Texas comes a collaboration with bow Cody's and their new Texas Bach. It is a malt whiskey made from the exact recipe 3:00 shiner Bock beer, utilizing the breweries Nashville and proprietary lager yeast strain, to what they call create that remarkable flavor profile. It was Asian first fill American oak barrels for at least two years and made within Nashville of over 51% malted barley, about conus. Texas Bok will be bottled at 50% ABV and will be priced around $40. It will also be available for sale at the distillery and retailers throughout Texas and Oklahoma for a limited time and keep it on that Texas trailer bourbon. The garrison brothers bourbon distillery out of high Texas is releasing their garrison brothers bowl Maria bourbon. This bourbon is aged for four years in staves that have been dry aged for at least 25 months in the Ozarks. Then the liquid was transferred to a second new American barrel and aged for another year. Of course we all know is re barreling. It is finally bottled for this second release at 115 proof the 2020 bull Maria release 4:00 We'll be around 6000 bottles with a retail price of around $160. Now with more release News, New riff is doing their spring 2020 special release with the new riff back setter bourbon and rye. For this release, new rep really focused on sour mashing process and use the back set from the pizza malted barley in their mashing of their standard bourbon recipe. as they've mentioned, it resulted in a smoking flavor that is hauntingly unique with layers of peat envelopes a creamy spicy bourbon and rye. The back setter to pack will be listed for a total of $99 and 98 cents. And for today's podcast, we're featuring the roundtable it's another yet potentially controversial topic where we talk about the relaunch of the okay AI brand and we examine some of the motivating factors behind it not only just from New Roof but from the new owners as well. We then take a look at the current landscape of craft distilleries and if they will survive the current COVID-19 5:00 conditions. As a personal note, please make sure you're going out there and you're supporting your craft distillers. You're going to hear more about it in the podcast today. And lastly, we also talk about the return of H statements that we're seeing on a brand of knob Creek. We're all excited to see that now as well. Joe from barrel bourbon who wants you to know that it's gotten a whole lot easier to get their unique cash drink whiskies from around the world, just visit barrel bourbon.com and you can click the Buy Now button bourbon to your door. It's as easy as that. Up next is Fred minich with above the char, so continue to stay safe, and we'll see you out there soon. Cheers, everyone. 5:40 I'm Fred medic, and this is above the char. This is not going to be a pleasant above the char if you're someone who is eagerly waiting for the prices to drop because of the pandemic. Some time ago, I was having a conversation with somebody and I saw it also on Facebook and Twitter. This is a considered 6:00 A theme amongst people in the bourbon community talking about how they cannot wait for the bourbon to drop in price to take advantage of the pandemic. I thought to myself at the time, you know, it's it's not a very nice thing to think because if we drop in price, that means people are going to lose their jobs. That means businesses are going to be going bankrupt. That means the bourbon boom that we've known that's kind of helped support this podcast and other cottage industries such as Mint Julep tubers, and r&r limousine Pegasus, 6:38 such as the travel industry that has become Kentucky bourbon trail. That means if all those prices start dropping, and all those wholesale barrels go out on the market for far less than they were, oh boy, yeah, you can maybe get a 160 $5 bourbon for something like 40 bucks, but you know what, and also means somebody can't feed their face. 7:00 Family, that means somebody is going to be out of work that means that the industry that we have known and love that has been thriving and growing is on its way to a major, major decline. But when I first saw that I was just kind of just kind of like ignored it and kind of moved on. And then people like jack rose and silver dollar started putting up their products for sale out of survival. And I was like, wow, 7:29 okay, I get it. We're going to be okay, we're going to be okay. But as many of you know, I am also an active 7:38 an active vintage, you know, buyer and I'm always looking for the market for like, you know, rare gyms. I was having a conversation with somebody 7:48 about a week ago. And I was talking about like, all the lots that are up for sale. And he says, You know what, I'm going to wait just a little bit longer, a little bit longer. When people 8:00 People are much more desperate. 8:03 And I don't know why that bugged me so much, because that is a part of business when you are someone who was looking to buy something you do want to buy when the person is, you know, willing to sell for the least amount. And that just bugged me. And I'm not saying that we should. We should be overpaying for things in the vintage market. But I believe in fair markets, I believe in fair market value. I believe in paying for a rare bottle of dallying bottle and bond. 8:35 I believe paying for what it's actually worth and not waiting for someone to they can't feed their family. I think right now what we have seen in bourbon, to a lesser degree, but what we have seen with this pandemic, we have seen people for who they really are. We have two sides that are constantly bickering and fighting over how we should deal with this and blaming one another all the time. And then you have the 9:00 Majority of America right there in the middle trying to figure out what to do. And it seems we also have those who cannot wait for you to hit rock bottom so they can buy up your collections. So, if that's you, or if you know someone like that, I asked you to please not be that way to change your mind to think of this as like a moment of a human just being human. If somebody comes to you, you know, for you to buy their collection, or to buy a bottle, you know, even if it's out, you know, encourage them to do illegally, of course, but be fair about it. Be fair about it, because you don't know what that money can mean to that person's family. 9:48 And that's this week's above the char. Hey, if you have an idea for above the char during this pandemic, hit me up on Twitter, Facebook or Instagram, just search for my name, Fred MiniK. Cheers. 10:04 Hey everybody and welcome to the 44th recording of the bourbon Community Roundtable. We've got a lot of people joining us live tonight as we discuss a good popery of What's New in bourbon news. And thankfully, we won't have to talk much about COVID because that really hasn't really impacted much in the bourbon world. Everything is just kind of status quo. There's a few hints of releases coming out however, I think it's actually a good thing that hasn't happened because it keeps people away from going out and running and chasing bourbon right now in a time when you shouldn't be probably doing that. So everybody's kind of being a little safe. Ryan has your purchasing habits for bourbon decrease now? Yeah, all my funds have allocated towards to go margaritas swirl Margarita. 10:51 We do those carry out Margarita is like three times a week. It's like when we first started they would just give you the Margarita was in a straw and you're like, Oh well, you know 11:00 I guess I'd have in the car on the way home and then and then then they went to we can't give you a straw and you're like, Okay, so I start bringing out straws. And then they went to you have to order an appetizer when you get it. So now it's a, which is fine. So just get the chips and walk with it. But the swirl Margarita mojitos if you're in mobile, excellent. There you go. So that's what you've been spending your money on. I actually bought my first bottle in a while today I saw I went to my local store to go and buy some things. Oddly enough, I had to get more tequila because we are running low because of margaritas and such and considering we just kind of had, you know, Taco Tuesday and everything like that. And, you know, cinco demayo. So I think the one thing that I did buy was the the makers 101 that new like fancy box. So look for that in a whiskey quickie coming soon at some point when we can Yeah, exactly. So let's go ahead and let's, let's kick it off tonight because we've got a lot of good topics as we start diving into this. And so I'm gonna go with the person that that 12:00 In the middle towards the bottom you start with Brian Harris sipping corn everybody where you blog and then let's start with a fun fun question night indeed believe in ghosts yes I absolutely believe in ghosts and maybe I'll write a there's some whiskey blogs that I might need to do on on ghosts but they're they're true find me at sip and corn mostly on Twitter also Facebook and Instagram and online the the website is sip and corn calm you can also find it at bourbon justice calm. Thanks for having me again guess of course. And let's go to our good friend Carrie over here Carrie. How's it going? Good. Thanks guys for bringing me in tonight. Carrie from suburbia calm. It's up to you our bi a. You can find me on Twitter at bourbon underscore gamer and Instagram at suburbia. And yes, I absolutely believe in ghosts. And sometime when we're off on a tangent, I'll tell you all about the stories growing up in a house in Atlanta, that was definitely haunted. 13:00 Okay, well, I'm sitting on pins and needles can't wait. 13:05 Call me later, right? Yeah. 13:07 All right, Nick, your turn. Hey, everybody. Glad to see everybody tonight. I'm Nick one of three founders of breaking bourbon. Find us online at breaking bourbon calm and check us out on social media. All at breaking bourbon. We're on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, Patreon and now, tick tock so throwing up some videos up there too. And you gave in. I'ma be like, yeah, I joined you guys. We joined you guys, but I guess I'll burst the bubble here. I'm not a believer in ghosts myself. I like a good ghost story. But that's about as far as I go. So all right, Blake, you're up, buddy. All right. I'm Blake from burner and toolbox calm. You can find me on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, that's Bo you are Bo n r and then seal boxes. S e lb a CH 14:00 And I'm actually you know, let's see. Where's the vote Ed? I don't know for split but I'm with Nick on this one. Yeah, that can't can't go down that goes throughout. You know, maybe it was too many like, corny tours as a kid through St. Augustine, Florida, which is about 30 minutes from us that that did be in But no, if, you know, they've made 10,000 TLC and discovery show TV shows about it, they still can't track it down it goes, I'm gonna go ahead and say they don't exist. So 14:31 few more of these Bourbons, so and you never Yeah, you're right. It doesn't exist, but I can go to Instagram and see that it does exist. So that's 14:41 20 says the truth is out there. Ryan, did you believe in ghosts? Uh, sure. I don't know. Yes, Ghostbusters. Like one of my favorite like movies. So like, I gotta believe in it. You know, I had the whole you know, backpack and like thing you slide out and catch them. So right yeah. 15:00 I'm all for them. I mean, it just kind of makes me wonder if like bourbon and Ecto cooler would be a good combo then. Hey, I'm all for it. I mean even remember Ecto cooler that was like the the with Slimer. Like that was that flavor back in the day? Oh, shit, I was good. All right, so let's kind of move on to our first topic because I think this is one that is a little polarizing. And so this is something that has recently happened is that okay, I the brand that was originally owned by new roof and kind of what put new roof on the map is really kind of recalls they were putting out anywhere between 10 to I think like 14 or 15 year old 36% higher I MGP towards the end of it. We've had Ken Lewis of new riff on the podcast before telling his story about how he bought those barrels when he was still when he owned the party source up in Northern Kentucky. And then he finally found a way to be able to turn that into another business and then sell those as a way to kind of you know, really got 16:00 To get the launching point going for a new roof now what we found out is that the is that new roof has sold off the brand. And it is now being owned by two people. Then it also started the 16:14 blank. We're just about before we started the what were the brands where they started ramus Yes. 16:21 Yeah. What was the other? I don't know. We just we just totally blanked and we're terrible. I'm terrible hosts that I shot. 16:27 volstad except the one. Well, it was there's the Jordan grants George Freeman. I really want I know of offhand, but exactly the MGP burn. Yeah, MPP bought it from them. They got 16 from them. So let's kind of break this down a little bit because the one thing that that I'm kind of looking at this I look at it in the first aspect and I'll kind of throw this out there is why would new riff want to sell? Okay, I Well, I mean, I think that you know, they've kind of made it clear that they want to be all about the district. 17:00 They waited those four years. Okay, I served this purpose. So why not cash in on it? You know, I don't know what the you know usually go on like a base of 17:11 sales multiples and that kind of thing for a brand. So this is probably a little bit different, but we talked about it a little before of, it's kinda like the black Maple Hill, you know, black Maple Hill was this old brand. That 17:24 I guess was it originally with kbd? Or will it in a, you know, the people out of California bought it and it dropped out of quality? Then it moved to Oregon in. I can't tell you how many people say, Hey, I found a bottle of black Maple Hill and it's like, well, is it in a short squat model? Because you're not going to want to drink it for 100 bucks. Right? But that but that business model works, you know, people they've heard about this brand, it's got a little clout in the community. 17:51 So why don't I go ahead and and, you know, put some more bourbon in it. But I get that i think i think my my question is 18:00 Why would why would new ref and why would Ken Lewis actually want to get rid of something like they had something for so long it was it was successful. There's nothing that said they couldn't revive it years down the road. Why would they just take it and sell it to somebody else like it? That's one part that I'm still trying to figure out how to understand here. So I think they I think originally actually dug up I was looking around at websites actually dug up a website that's that's still out there. And it's new riff I think their old website I'm going to share it up here on on YouTube but it's got a whole kind of page dedicated Okay, I I'm not sure this is supposed to still be up or not on the web. But you know, I almost feel like they've kind of at this point realized their success with new roof is so strong that that idea of ever going back that okay, I brand as part of new roof. Maybe they've just gotten to the point where they said we just we just don't need it. That's not part of the vision anymore. You know, the idea was it was always going to be a short term brand. 19:00 I think but I get it, you kind of hold in your back pocket just in case you know, 10 years 15 years down the road, you may want to reintroduce it. It's almost as if now they're looking saying you know what, we're not going to do anything with it. We still like the brand if we've got people that are interested in taking that brand to a new height, we don't want it go ahead guys. You guys take it and we're doing our thing over here. So I think it's a lot attributed to numerous success that they've had now in the idea that there they probably don't plan on putting any resource into Okay, I or didn't for a long time and they're saying if somebody else is going to so be it, take it we'll take a little money and be done with it. Yeah, I agree with that. I mean, they think about the single barrels that had a lot of success in 2019 and a lot of them were new riff I mean they're they're proud of what they got with good reason. To me you know, think of another example Who else could do this and it's smooth Ambler. It's like smooth Ambler getting rid of old scowl once they have their own distillate. That's that's a bigger scale, I think and that would be really surprising if they ever did that. 20:00 That's the same idea once you're once you're proud of your own distillate and your own product you move toward that and and help keep the lights on by selling a brand did that did okay I ever get distributed outside of Kentucky Ohio and Indiana 20:18 the small that it wasn't much outside was it? I don't think so. I think Yeah, I was like the tri state area was what they had like 50 barrels in total right or it wasn't like there was massive amounts was there dudes a finite number of barrels they started with and that was always the idea was it was just going to fun there next thing you know it's never going to be a brand that continued in it was never going to be a brand new we're going to go try to source more to somehow continue at least that's what the how the story goes. Yeah cuz new is made its way now and it's coming to Georgia. And yeah, I feel I kind of with Brian. On that whole thing. You put your initial investment into that that one company but once you see that you 21:00 your heart and your soul is in the product that you're making and the label that you're proud of. It's like, what's the point of keeping behind? You know, I mean, money speaks at the end of the day, right? So, you know, you make money from selling that label, why not? Yeah. And then the last time we were there, I mean, they got a ton of like, expansion going and building stuff. And it's like, they probably could have used the cash. You know, the capital. I mean, I don't know how lucrative of a deal it was just to sell the brand off. But it might be to to meet some short term cash needs that they need to, you know, keep growing the new roof brand and it's like, Hey, you know, Hell, I can't tell you how many Okay, I bottles I passed on like, just because I was like, I just MGP again, you know, who? Stupid me But uh, yeah, I mean, I don't know. I mean, it probably. I don't know how valuable that brand is really. I mean, it's somewhat noticeable. But I'd say in the grand scheme of thing it's not, you know, that well known of a brand in the grand scheme of things. I mean, we as hobbyists, we know, aka Okay, 22:00 All right, I want to go out and ask 20 people, you know, if they've heard of it, they haven't heard it yet. I can tell you people were like, okay, that, okay, bring it, 22:10 bring it to a big market and see if anyone knows anything about it. And yeah, I don't think they would, I think they're gonna have to put a lot of effort into it to really get the snowball rolling again and take it anywhere from from where it kind of is sitting right now, you know, beyond that, the tightly knit enthusiast market, but I don't think it has that massive, you know, appeal of like other big brands, but it's an easier story to tell of, you know, where it came from, and people kind of, oh, have you heard a new riff and you know, it kind of it. For me, it's just an easier segue for retailers to explain to customers why they're charging $120 per bottle, but yeah, we'll see. And so I kind of want to put a thought in about, you know, the whole sales aspect because I look at this, as let's rewind the clock back like 23:00 I'd say a while ago, you know, when other brands were basically doing mash trading of labels and distilleries to basically stay afloat. And Ryan, you're probably right. Maybe this was something to get a quick cash grab, because who knows in 10 1520 years, if anybody's gonna care about it, but it could also be in 10 2015 years, when people like us for like, holy shit, it's back like, Oh my god, right? Like, we would have like a party about it. This is just kind of like, Oh, this seems a little weird, right? I mean, yeah, it's weird. And it's like, if it's just two guys doing it, and you look at a business venture out of it, like how much do you really think they paid for it? 10,000 20,000 If you really think they paid like $50,000 for this brand. Oh, I was thinking at least 100,000 I was thinking 100 myself too. I was thinking I was I was also thinking New Roof might they might have told this story. You know, these guys might have told a story. This is our plans with it. And that could have been something that the folks at New riff kind of said okay, we're kind of seeing the vision. 24:00 And we're, it's not just about the money, it's about the idea that you're going to do something with this brand that we're never going to do and that we don't want to do, and don't have any plans to do. And that might have been part of it too, because they did talk about kind of retelling that story and, you know, doing some things with this brand to kind of revitalize, which obviously, they need to do. But that may be part of it as well be really interesting to know what was paid for it. Yeah, gosh, I wouldn't think I just couldn't imagine paying more than, like, 25 $30,000 for it, but maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. I just think I think I see. I'm trying to think of like a I'm just trying to think of like percentage of business that limited releases are you know, for for Okay, or anyone and it's not that much and then you're trying to think about the margin you make on that and I'm like, okay, that just doesn't seem like a valuable that much. Like, I wouldn't pay much more than that to to profit off that name, I guess but maybe I don't know. I'm an idiot. So who knows? When they're when the bottles come out and see how expensive they are? Then you'll know how much Yeah, you'll figure it out. Really quick. 25:00 Yeah. And so that kind of like tails and dovetails in the next part because we we look at this from our perspective and our perspective as enthusiasts and also keep this in mind. Nobody gave a shit about Okay, I until the MGP. hype train started. Right, right. I mean, it was around for a while some people were getting some bottles, they were 1213 years old people like that, then all of a sudden the MGP chasers came around, cleared those out, then kept going and moving to the next distillery until every distillery is basically cleared out of this high aged MGP. So one thing that people have to understand is that this will not be the same product as you had before. And if you want it to be that, maybe you should not buy a bottle and wait additional 10 years, and maybe it'll be there because we all know that what's available in the market today that you're going to get from a GP is probably around five years old. If you're lucky, maybe six. And so I guess we we look at this and we think like okay, if you are going to be under new ownership with this, how like what is that price point do you think that you need to be at 26:00 Do you look at this as like a pure speculation of just like, hey, let's just ride the coattails of a brand that was known by a bunch of people in a bourbon community in the tri state area, and then try to make a national brand out of it. But what's that? What's that price point got to be at to be able to do that? And how do you stay competitive against everybody else in the market? Who's pushing MGP? Because you're not you're not you're not unique anymore? Let's keep it to say they're gonna be MGP, though. I mean, oh, you know that? Yes, because it says it in the press release that they are sourcing. 36% high right. MGP to do this brand, they're not steering away from what it was before. Yeah, you gotta be at like $100 or more. I think $40 is a good price point for if you're looking for something that you want to say I want to take it national, I want this to be just about every state or every state. It's somewhat similar to other Bourbons out there, you're going to buy it because the flavor because the label, maybe the story a little bit, but I think $40 is kind of that sweet spot where you're not 27:00 so high that people are just going to ignore it and bite your high enough that they're going to look at it as an elevated brand out there so if they're putting out a $40 bottle and it's hitting everywhere I think with the right marketing behind it and a decent flavor decent age I think they I think they could do it and make it something like like smooth Ambler we're seeing that coming coming back now and that's at that price point. For example, you know if they want to go higher if they want to go into this 70 hundred dollar range they're gonna have to really we've quite a story I mean, think Kentucky owl kind of you know, they're gonna have to source some stuff that we didn't really know was available to source or that was, you know, kind of a surprise to kind of hit those higher numbers or they go above 100 but be interesting to see if they kind of go towards that limited premium side or if they go towards that make it available to everybody side on that lower price. I think you guys underestimate the ridiculousness that people will pay. Yeah, or ridiculousness. Well said I always think of my head. 28:00 Is that heaven store? bourbon. That was that total wine? I think it was like 399 or 499 I'm sure it was sourced from somewhere. Maybe MGP have a bootleg one. Yeah, the one that was like it was like, seven years. It was like 27 years old. No, not that one. It wasn't that old. But it said something like, here's heading included a guitar string from somebody and had a leather bound notebook and and it was 499 and I'm thinking nobody's gonna buy that this is bullshit. And a week later, all three of them were sold out. You know, I think it's, it's, this is the ideal market. If you want to push into you know, marketing bullshit. This is the market for it right now. People are gonna buy what you put out. And all you need to practically do is charge a high price. Yeah. And a fancy bottle. Fancy bottle has got instant prestige and there might not be anything to it. Yet 29:00 Yeah, as the comment is right now just put a horse on the bottle and it's 29:05 that's it. I think this is a mark. It's a perfect mark. Well, you know, Douglas Pendleton put it in the chat. Price dries perception. And that is extremely true in today's market. It's like, well, it's under dollars. It's gotta be better than the bottle. That's $50 Yeah. Why would they only charge 50? If it's worth 100? Yeah, cuz they had to pay $200,000 for the brand, right? 29:30 It just went out and he says the price is double Blake. Yeah, just double. Yeah, I mean, the one thing that I see this and this is just from a pure whiskey perspective, is that we've we've seen this story before. And we've seen and we've tasted this whiskey before. And we know a bunch of different places that are putting out five year MGP 36% high rye, sorry, all it's not ready yet. In my opinion, it's still not there. And I think there's still going to be a lot more time that needs to go into the barrel to actually make this live up to the hype. 30:00 what it was before and so you're gonna have the same exact people that are getting burned by the same products and then it's just gonna be history repeating itself. Yeah. Are y'all ready for the big reveal? It's me and Kenny who bought it? 30:17 totally get it 30:21 opens and it's $1,000 is that is that pursuit release 340 30:27 Yeah, episode 30:29 together. Yeah, we're getting our own boxes that have like hydraulic lifts in it that just like raise it up three inches so you can take it off its pedestal. They're they're holograms of Kenny's tic Tock videos. 30:42 We've got to take the sticker game to the next level, right? We've just had to figure out how to do that to make people really want to know what's what took the sticker game to the next level and is underappreciated is gifted horse. It was a terrible whiskey. But did you know it was Scratch and sniff? Yeah, I don't know if everybody I can't believe you. 31:00 Nobody I can't believe no one else has done that after that because it's such a crazy funny idea to me. I want a bottle just so I can have a scratch and sniff label again, like I don't even care that the whiskey sucks. I want gifted horsetail. man you love orphan barrels, I do like a round table Buffalo Trace for a gifted horse. It's worth $140. 31:23 Get on it, man. Make it happen if you can. Alright, so let's let's kind of move on to the next subject because this one is it's kind of a sore subject. This is definitely dealing with COVID and everything that that's been going on because according to a survey that has been released by the distilled spirits Council of the United States, as well as the American distilling Institute, with a survey of 118 craft distillers they found that two out of three have worried not only about the short term, but also the long term survival of their business. And 42% believe that they will not be able to stay in business for more than three months, and another 21% of worry that they will go out of business for the next three months. And I believe 32:00 We've also said that 43% of all craft distillery workers across the US right now have either been laid off or furloughed. So we look at this right now that we're potentially in the craft boom bust. Now, the the question for you all that I kind of have with this is that in a capitalist sort of mentality and opportunity here, why aren't more big players in this game, trying to swallow up craft distilleries? For dimes on $1 right now? 32:33 Before before y'all Sorry, guys, y'all know a lot about this, but I just have a question do they say? I mean, did they say why? They're struggling because it seems like the spirit tree is booming, right? 32:47 Yeah, local distilleries, they own their yard. So like they really depend on tours and, you know, local events and tourism. You know, I was I was digging into that more to carry because everywhere you're seeing is how 33:00 All sales are up, and you've seen it all over the place, if you're not seeing it on the news, seen it with people, you talk to just your friends and family and so forth. You know, I was looking at that too and started digging around a little bit about that, and kind of found this this whole kind of changing dynamic of this idea that people aren't buying on premise now that they're buying from the online retailers or some of the big brick and mortars you know, for the most part, and that's that hurts. They're basically the these craft distillers or major margin is what they're selling on premise with their bars, the restaurants, the stuff they're selling directly with the bottle, so where they're seeing their profit is basically dried up, even though they might be still selling some of their product. But then a lot of that stuff being bought online is the big name, lower price kind of stuff that people are just, you know, kind of repetitively buying. So all this crap stuffs going to the wayside. And these guys are sitting on a lot of them and insane amounts of debt that they need to service and it's a very short it's really pretty sad. I hope they don't 34:00 Go under to the you know, to the extent that it looks like they could, but it's a very short window for them to either survive this thing or not survive this thing. 34:08 I didn't think about how much is that how much of their revenue is from people coming in and on site? So they make a lot of their profit derivative. Yeah. 30% is a pretty conservative estimate for most craft distilleries have tasting rooms. 34:25 And, you know, they have a bar and that kind of stuff, it could be even higher. And, you know, so all that's just gone out the window. So they're kind of making up with it with hand sanitizer trying to, you know, do what they can into next point. You know, whenever people are buying for a pandemic, they're grabbing, grabbing fodder grabbing. Yeah, I think I think that's a good point. It's like, people are drinking more, but they're not, you know, like one seven fives of like Evan Williams, and that's what they're, you know, that's what most people are grabbing for. They're not going for the higher price craft stuff. And so it's a and do it like 35:00 You know people are buying alcohol but you know, restaurants and bars are like zero. And so they you know, a lot of the tastes like you all said the tasting rooms and visitor centers, you know that these guys depend on or just it's gone from to zero and so and I don't really think they're getting any help either I mean the PPP stuff goes to two employees and a little bit to rent and that's not their expenses I mean they they have a lot of suck sunk and expenses that they're just not really getting anything from the government on here. Yeah, you know, their revenue and they've still got a, you know, fun that Vendome still and their construction costs and everything else there. I mean, it's it's serious. I agree with Matt. Matt's comment there that hand sanitizer production has kind of caught up now. Yeah, yeah. So what do you they don't need to do that anymore, either. Yeah. And they struggle with that, too. A lot of regulations were tricky. A lot of them ended up making it and not even really being able to sell it. 36:00 They just, you know, made it a lot of pro bono. And a lot of cases that really wasn't a moneymaker per se. I think they just got stuck in a place where they didn't really need to produce whiskey and they were trying to help and, you know, trying to keep staff. Yeah, and a lot of these places have a pretty low staff count to, you know, to Brian's point. There's not a lot of people that work in a small craft distillery, usually, a lot of times, it's actually just the owners, maybe that are that are working there. You know, and they're there. A lot of times they have just an incredible amount of debt to service that even in a perfect world when everything's going well. It's a hard business. So you just you just pull out one little piece, you know, it's like a thing of Jenga pull out one piece the whole thing's gonna topple. And it's very, very well could be the piece I'd be curious Blake, what you're seeing on the sealed box side, from the, you know, kind of like the online sales side there and people approaching you from the craft distilleries. I mean, what's kind of been your feel for these folks that you are 37:00 pretty well. Yeah. So a lot of them are, you know, definitely feeling the feeling the effects of it. Most are making it but most are making it we got it. Yeah, no, no, I'm like, What can we send Blake an arrow or something? Like, uh, I think it's I think it's fun for my computer. Oh, 37:20 it's a ghost behind you, Blake. I left the podcast almost two years ago and Blake's internet still stayed the same. 37:30 So true. True. I, you know, I, I would say as much 37:35 as this has been damaging for so many small businesses and restaurants and bars and distilleries, and etc. I kind of feel like maybe we're getting close to good news starting to prevail and hopefully coming out of this thing within a month. I mean, you start to look at at least here in Georgia, we buckled down March 14 is when pretty much everybody 38:00 Went indoors and 38:02 our hospitals are at a very low rate right now. And I'm just hopeful that we can kind of come back out now and support these craft distillers I know that right before everything hit the fan. wilderness trail was distributed here in Georgia. And I kinda was just very curious to see how their sales went. And my local store had bought a couple cases of their they had the weeded the regular bourbon and the the rye. And all of it has to has sold pretty well. He said he's ordered more of it. So hopefully, we can get out of this thing and get back to these craft distillers. This is the one thing that that kind of strikes me a little bit. So I'm sitting here I'm trying to read the chat. And there's some people that are saying like, oh, like, it doesn't matter, like their whiskey sucks. It's too young as to whatever. Like this is the this is the moment this is the movement that we need, unless you want to keep drinking the same whiskey from the same six distilleries for the rest of your life. And I think that 39:00 Blake made a very good point in his presentation that he did at whiskey from home during that that online conference and saying that if you're buying craft whiskey, you're not trying to buy something that is just as good or comparable as the big guys. Instead, what you're doing is you're trying to get something that makes you drink or taste something different, right? Like you're finding either new grains, you're finding new ways that the they you know, they put it like a different age proof or they you know, they did whatever it is different because we all know that if you go to heaven Hill, or you go to a beam, you go to these different places. They've got, you know, like one, two, maybe three or four recipes, and they are cranking out stuff like on that still 24 hours a day. They're not changing. They're not experimenting, right? And so it's it's really hard for you to sit there and try to figure out like, okay, like, I hope your palate or your taste doesn't change over the next 1020 years because that's essentially what we're going to get. And I know it's been a bad rap on a lot of craft distilleries that they get, you know like in this, this, basically 40:00 pigeonholed in this part where they said like, oh, sorry, Your whiskies too young. It's two, three years old. And it's, you know, it doesn't meet my flavor profile. I get it. I'm kind of with you there. But we've got to be able to give them a chance to be able to get to the point here at 5678 910 years old when this whiskey is really going to start being mature and it does taste phenomenal that we've got a lot of options out there as consumers. So yep, yeah. And Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Wash Your Hands!The sun rises over the San Joaquin Valley, California, today is April 20, 2020.During this time of reflection, we bring a difficult question for you: Who are we as humans? The estimated ratio of human cell to microbe is at least 1:1, some people estimate it is 1:10, that is one human cell per one to ten microbes in our bodies(1). Based on that, we are at least half bacteria. Also, water is the main component in the human body(2), between 80% at birth to 60% in an average adult. Based, on that, well, we are basically “dirty water,” but is that really the answer of who we are? Most certainly we are more than bacteria and water.The understanding of who we are may go beyond the physical aspect of our bodies, and we may find more answers from different sources. We invite you to reflect on who you are. This is our food for thought to start our podcast today.  “To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, and be nothing.” – Elbert HubbardA poet said, “Let the dogs bark, it is a sign that we are moving forward”, and I just learned that maybe this is not a quote from Don Quixote (sorry to disappoint you who like Don Quixote). But seriously, it is always difficult to receive feedback, however, it is a good way to improve ourselves.  Today we have a star resident. She is loved for her spice and her compassion. Welcome Tamara Hilvers, known by her friends as Tammy. This podcast is an experiment, we will continue to improve over time. We ask five basic questions, but I may surprise you with another question to make it more spontaneous. Don’t worry it will be easy. Question number 1: Who are you? I always hate these types of questions where I have to talk about myself. So, who am I? Well, I was born and raised right here in Bakersfield, CA, I grew up on a dairy farm and I am 1 of 4 girls! A few interesting facts about me: I know and hold a degree in American Sign Language; I took Calculus and Physics courses in undergrad for the fun of it, and I am actually very shy! My greatest achievement in life thus far is being a single mother and raising a sweet and beautiful, both inside and out, 12-year-old daughter. As if single motherhood wasn’t challenging enough, I made, what some may call a crazy, the decision to pack the two of us up, 2 months after she was diagnosed with epilepsy, to attend medical school on a small Caribbean Island.  I am currently nearing the end of my first year of Residency with the Rio Bravo Family Medicine Program. I remember when I first started, everyone said that my first year would fly by… Yeah, they lied. But, I am looking forward to continuing this journey and can’t wait to see what the next year brings!Comment: We have enjoyed working with you. You are a smart woman with a big heart.Question number 2: What did you learn this week?This week, I looked into America’s #1 topic today, hand hygiene. Washing your hands is the best way to protect yourself and others from getting sick and to stop the spread of ‘germs’. I looked into the ‘when’, ‘how’ and the ‘with what’ of hand hygiene. So, the ‘when’. When should we wash our hands? Always! Always wash your hands! It’s that simple. Many of us all know that we should wash our hands after things such as: preparing food, treating a wound, caring for someone who is sick, after using the restroom, touching animals or even touching garbage. However, during this pandemic we are experiencing, the CDC is also reminding people to wash their hands after being in public, after touching public surfaces that are frequently touched by others, such as door handles, shopping carts and gas pumps, and always before touching your eyes, nose or mouth. Now the ‘how’. What is the proper way to wash your hands? Well, if washing your hands with soap and water, there are 5 easy steps to follow: wet, lather, scrub, rinse, and dry. First you need to wet your hands with clean, running water before applying the soap. Then, you should lather the soap by rubbing your hands together making sure to get the back of the hands, between fingers and under the nails. You should continue to scrub your hands for at least 20 seconds. On the CDC website, they suggested humming the ‘Happy Birthday’ song two times through. I say, just count to 20. Either way, whatever your preference, continue for 20 seconds, then rinse off hands under clean running water. Hands should then be dried using a clean towel or air dried. Now, if you are using an alcohol based disinfectant, you should apply the product to the palm of one hand and then rub both hands together, covering all surfaces, until hands are dry. This process should take 15-20 seconds.Comment: Water temperature is irrelevant, we know warm water feels nicer, but it is not required(3). Make sure you scrub all surfaces like Dr Hilvers said, we usually miss the back of our hands and lower aspect of our palms. Ok, what should we use to wash our hands?Last, the ‘with what’. What’s better, soap and water or alcohol based disinfectant? According to the CDC, they recommend that the general population use hand sanitizer only when soap and water are not available. Even though sanitizers can quickly reduce the number of germs on your hands, it does not kill all the germs, it does not remove harmful chemicals and it may not be effective when hands are visibly dirty. However, when it comes to healthcare providers, alcohol based disinfectants are favored over soap and water unless dealing with a patient with infectious process such as C. diff or norovirus as alcohol does not kill the spores. As far as which soap to use, liquid, bar or powdered forms are all acceptable, with none having preference over the other. When bar soap is used, they suggest using small bars and soap racks to allow drainage. Comment: Wet soap bars can grow bacteria, that’s one of the reasons for the defenders of liquid soap, but any soap is better than no soapIn 2016, the FDA stated that there is no added health benefit using antibacterial soaps(5). So plain soaps are acceptable.Drying hands should be done with disposable towels or air dried. Multiple use hand towels are not recommended. Alcohol based disinfectants should contain at least 60% of alcohol.Comment: What if we do not have any soap or hand sanitizer? Use plain water. Washing with plain water will wash off some bacteria, not as many but some of it. Remember the size of the viral inoculum can make a difference on the severity of many viral illnesses. The larger the size of the inoculum, the more severe the illness is. Question number 3: Why is that knowledge important for you and your patients?Hand Hygiene is important because it is the single most important measure to reduce the transmission of microorganisms from one person to another, or from one site to another. It will protect yourself and your patients from potentially deadly germs. Hand Hygiene should be performed before and after every patient contact. It is also important to note, that wearing gloves does not replace the need to wash hands properly. Question number 4: How did you get that knowledge?Hand Hygiene has been instilled in all of us from the first day of medical school and every day since. When taking STEP 2, the Clinical Skills portion of the exam, hand hygiene is an important part of the patient encounter. This is stressed in every review book as well as online practice exams. We all know the importance of hand hygiene, however, all of us are guilty of skipping this process a time or two. It is very important to make hand hygiene a routine in patient care. To help me get the proper techniques of hand hygiene and the most current recommendations, I reviewed several articles from reliable sources such as the CDC and Up-to-Date. Hand hygiene is very important in the field of medicine and think that it is important to stay on top of the most current recommendations, not only for our own practice but also to help educate others. Question number 5: Where did that knowledge come from?This information was obtained from “Hand Hygiene for Healthcare Providers” downloaded from the CDC website and “Infection prevention: Precautions for preventing transmission of infection” on Up-to-Date. _______________________________Speaking Medical (Medical word of the week) by Steven SaitoDid you know that 3% of the population in the United States (that’s more than 3 million people) can’t smell? So, some couples actually don’t fight over farts… because one of them suffers from anosmia. Anosmia is certainly not funny for those who suffer from it, as it may cause social withdrawal, depression, and weight loss. Weight loss may be positive for some people. Anosmia can also pose a risk to safety when there is inability to detect the odors of spoiled nasty food, smoke, and leaking gas, both natural and from your pipes. Anosmia can also be a symptom in 20-35% of people with COVID-19._______________________________Espanish Por Favor (Spanish Word of the week) by Hector Arreaza“Doctor, tengo mareos, estoy mareado”. Mareo is a common complaint in our clinic. The word mareo comes from the Latin “mare” which means “mass of water”. In Spanish the ocean or sea is called “mar”, and mareo likely comes from the feeling people experience while on a ship. The translation of mareo to English is challenging, as it encompasses a variety of symptoms and conditions. Mareo is used by patients to describe dizziness, but it also includes other symptoms such as motion sickness, vertigo, pre-syncope, syncope, lightheadedness, and even generalized weakness. Mareos can be a real challenge in diagnosis, but my goal today is to teach you the Spanish word of the day, mareo. Your homework is to go and study the workup and treatment for your dizzy patients._______________________________For your Sanity (Medical joke of the week)by Steven Saito and Lisa Manzanares---Doctor, I got a heartburn every time I eat birthday cake---Next time, take off the candles.---What’s the difference between a family doc and a specialist? The family doc treats what you have, the specialist thinks you have what he treats.Two doctors and an HMO manager died and lined up at the pearly gates for admission to heaven. St. Peter asked them to identify themselves. One doctor stepped forward and said, "I was a pediatric spine surgeon and helped kids overcome their deformities." St. Peter said, "You can enter." The second doctor said "I was a psychiatrist. I helped people rehabilitate themselves." St. Peter also invited him in. The third applicant stepped forward and said, "I was an HMO manager. I got countless families cost-effective health care." St. Peter said, "You may enter, but," he adds, "You can only stay three days. After that you go to h---.”___________________Now we conclude our episode number 8, “Wash Your Hands.” Dr Hilvers taught us how to perform a simple task that can protect you, your patients, your family, and even your community. Washing your hands continues to be one of the most useful ways to prevent the spread of COVID-19. Mareo means dizziness among other symptoms, but you get the idea, and anosmia was a reminder that COVID-19 may present with a loss of sense of smell. May you continue to enjoy your training, stay safe and see you next week.  This is the end of Rio Bravo qWeek. We say good bye from Bakersfield, California, a special place in the beautiful Central Valley of California, United States, a land where growing is happening everywhere. If you have any feedback about this podcast, contact us by email RBresidency@clinicasierravista.org, or by visiting our website riobravofmrp.org/qweek. This podcast was created with educational purposes only. Visit your primary care physician for additional medical advice. Our podcast team is Hector Arreaza, Tammy Hilvers, Lisa Manzanares, and Steven Saito. Audio edition: Suraj Amrutia. See you soon! _____________________________________References:Abott, Alison, “Scientists Bust Myth That Our Bodies have More Bacteria than Human Cells,” nature international weekly journal of science, https://www.nature.com/news/scientists-bust-myth-that-our-bodies-have-more-bacteria-than-human-cells-1.19136, January 8, 2016. “The Water in You: Water and the Human Body,” United States Geological Services, https://www.usgs.gov/special-topic/water-science-school/science/water-you-water-and-human-body?qt-science_center_objects=0#qt-science_center_objects, accessed on April 16, 2020. Brenda Goodman, MA, The Power of Hand-Washing to Prevent Coronavirus, March 06, 2020, https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/926373?src=soc_fb_200310_mscpedt_news_mdscp_handwash&faf=1, accessed March 9, 2020.Anderson, Deverick J, “Infection prevention: Precautions for preventing transmission of infection,” Up to Date, https://www.uptodate.com/contents/infection-prevention-precautions-for-preventing-transmission-of-infection?search=hand%20washing&source=search_result&selectedTitle=1~150&usage_type=default&display_rank=1 , accessed on April 16, 2020.“Antibacterial Soap? You Can Skip It, Use Plain Soap and Water,” U.S. Food and Drug Administration,  https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/antibacterial-soap-you-can-skip-it-use-plain-soap-and-waterBurton, Maxine; Emma Cobb, [...], and Wolf-Peter Schmid, “The Effect of Handwashing with Water or Soap on Bacterial Contamination of Hands,” Published: 6 January 2011, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3037063/  The Raging Idiots, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ze8TtIITxqE

Matt Pavao is a principal in Burlingame, California. The following is a transcript of our conversation.  I'd love to talk about my school will be a lot lots of things going great at the school in the district. I have a small district in in the Bay Area, like you said, We're right near the San Francisco Airport. We are a school of 338 students k five. We are title one school. We are also school. It's very dedicated to innovation and very dedicated to our community and being a real community school all the school district all the schools in Burlingame are committed to being really community schools. So we're really tight and tight knit community at our and in our district. 338 today? Yeah. You know, we always say about 350, actually, but we just did the count the other day, so 338 Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, I've been at the school for eight years. My eighth year at the school. Yeah. As the principal the whole time. Yeah. It's my 20 I think third year in education. I'm done. Teaching and then other administration jobs at middle school and then and then this my first principalship first sponsorship, I'm eight years Hey, yes. Yeah. Yeah, we did. All right. We're doing okay. Well, yeah, no, I Well, the interesting thing about the school is I'm only the third principle they've had and Something like they reopen the school. It's the school is hundred years old this year. So it was built in 1919. But it was closed for some years in the end up until about and I think believe 1988. And since then we've only had three principals. So there was the principal there for 10 years. And the one before me was 11. And then mean, so I have, I'm the young still, I'm still the newbie in that group. You know, it's such a wonderful job and a wonderful community that I have such exciting people that I work with, and really inspired teachers and really inspired district that's allows me to have this community that allows me to have this, why they there is an expectation that we continue to push towards a very innovative practices. And we're in the kind of the north end of the Silicon Valley. So a lot of our parents work in the Silicon Valley in jobs that require the creativity and the collaboration and then the, you know, the critical thing that we talked about the communication. So they understand that's an important factor, and what we have to teach, so to give you this wide berth to kind of really push out into some things that aren't You know, you must be on page 25 of the textbook today. And we are. And at the same time, you know, I think we're a good example to other districts in that we have a wide range of students, you know, we have students of all socio economic backgrounds will talk about, you know, we have 27 different languages at the school. And that's not that's typical, actually, for our area, you know, our we have a very diverse population. And in that we still have achieved we were still able to achieve at high high levels of the typical if you want to call them that academic backgrounds, while at the same time really pushing our innovative practices into things like today where we're looking at podcasting or when we're doing a lot of creative work with presentations and so, a lot of creative creativity and design thinking and things like that. Okay, Yeah, my advice would be one is to reach out to them. A lot of times we have this shutdown method of like you stay on your side of the fence and I'll stay on my side of the fence. But at Roosevelt and in Burlingame, we definitely encourage parent participation. So a lot of the ideas we have come from parent groups, you know, you meet with them after school and or in the evenings and if they're willing to give their time to you, and then you can listen to their great ideas and you can take that and put the educators lens at the same time possibly because not impossible because of the principles that came before me. There was this foundation of real partnership with the parents that I just inherited it worked hard to keep that going. But it's always been part of our culture at the school and in the district that there's a real partnership. And certainly, there are helicopter parents in all walks, but even we don't. We don't I wouldn't say we even have I can't name any that we would have even at my site, but we've always really valued our partnership with the parents and they valued our professionalism. It's really, really a special kind of place in that respect.   So hundred years. Yeah, this year Well, 1990 is actually passed over but 1919 we're gonna have the celebration this year. It's real. And it's a real balancing between honoring what was before you, and then building, you know, continue to build. And so we tried to do that in the years I've been there and it's been successful. Yeah, yes. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Sure. Let me preface a little bit. We, we so we have this giant wall in our school that we painted this mural on a while back for a lot of different reasons. We had an event, an unfortunate event of some graffiti that we and so it's This speaks to what our parents are like as well, that we, in typically, we just cross out the graffiti move on our day, the parents want to do more we did that. Got it down immediately, and then went about our day and then went to say, No, we want to express who we are. And part of that is our 27 languages that we spoke at the time and I think was 24. We've grown. So we put this wall that said, we are Roosevelt. Roosevelt elementary is my school. And so we and then we wrote in every different language on the wall. We are Roosevelt in that language. So if you had someone who was speaking to golic it's up there if you have Russian it's up there Chinese Portuguese. And after you when you see it, and I look at it almost every day when you come in it's really keeps you focused. So one of the parts we were having struggles with we you know, we have a wee hours about night where we celebrate all the cultures, but we weren't getting party active participation from all our parents. And one of the ideas was, well, we need a translation service to translate our newsletters and we went through that and there's a price to that. And then we thought what we have experts Right here in the school, so we should have an audio audio Translation by our students using podcasts. We'll just attach it right to a link on our newsletters and we so what we do is we have, so we get we put it out to the parents and the teachers in the fifth grade, our students in the fifth grade, come and help us translate our newsletter. And so they would show up on our newsletters go out on Thursdays, they would show up on Tuesdays, I would give them kind of these are the highlights. They would take it home, they write it out with their parents, and then they would come so we had the first year we had Japanese and Portuguese and Japanese Portuguese, Spanish, and not Russian, but I'm forgetting we had one more. And we've now since expanded to Turkish and China we have Mandarin Chinese now. So we're confused. We don't have all 27 right now but it's it's powerful for lots of reasons. If you just take out even the parties, the students feel valued, which is actually the number one piece. There's a technical aspect to it that the kids are learning how to do podcasting, there's a some of these kids knew how to speak the language. They didn't necessarily know how to write it out. So they're even learning their own language which is how to their parents language how to write it out, but so there's children Well, you just bring up something, it's just my my wife's family comes from China. two generations ago her grandmother came from China and who just passed at 98 years old. And one of the things that her uncle brought up at the thing was even he had a commute there was always a communication issue with them and, and it was powerful it and so the other thing that we say is these and you just reminded me of another thing we do with students of second their second language students is we honor them, when they when they do learn English when they do read designated as English learners. And we have a full Berlin game. We had 100 and some odd students this year that we designated. We have celebration, we have metals and things like that, but when we do in front of the school, we always talk about how special these students are because of immigration stories like that. that at some point during the life of a family, someone is brave enough to learn English it was with my, my grandfather was the first one and then you see how that then expands out? So if we can hold on to it because you're right people then give up the language was isn't what necessarily we want? Right, right. Oh, it's a superpower. Yeah and in this world and what we're talking about at our students all the time is, you know, the flattening of the world, and how we need to be able to now cross culturally talk to people. And if you know about other cultures, you all of a sudden have a leg up where you thought it was something that was pulling you down, it's actually going to lift you up and the new economy or the new world for sure.  When we do and so and with our translators they become a place where they become hope elevated at the school because we do acknowledge them at our assemblies. He's these people are doing this translation for you guys. So more so the parents will know it's out there, but also to honor them for doing the work. Yes, no kidding. Right. And some of these kids come in. We had a student last year who could do the Portuguese like, I give it to you do it. Others need to take it home and write it down and really fit this guy was and he was having struggles in other areas. But you could see if you go in this route you are URL had, you know head and shoulders above the rest of the translators that we have at the school because I mean, if I was told, you know, you need go you're gonna be sitting in a classroom of all Spanish speakers and they all started speaking Spanish. I wouldn't be participating. I know a little bit of Spanish but I wouldn't be participating and this is similar similar sort of thing. Right? You got to put yourself in their shoes on that on those respects. Yeah. It's pretty brave kids. It's it's one of those real low floor high ceilings, like it's very easy to do and you get tons out of it. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, well, one of the things we're really proud of is we have a full and we talked about communication in this. And we have, we're very dedicated to giving our students the skills to communicate with others. We have this thought that, you know, and I know a lot of schools are working on design process, and it's fantastic. And certainly we are to getting kids to be creative problem solvers and things like this. All right. Our philosophy is that it's not an idea unless you can share it with someone and get them to understand your idea. So how do we do that? Well, so we worked with a company in the Silicon Valley and there's a long story about how we came about with this, but Duarte, Duarte, marketing or duardo, we just call them dorky But anyway, the dirty design, the Silicon Valley and she Nancy Duarte and her husband Mark started this company and they work on giving high powered CEOs the skills to give presentations. They were going to work with college level students. I knew someone at the company, we kind of worked it out so that they came and worked to elementary school. So now, yeah, it was very Yeah, it's been fantastic. They've been working with us for six years now. Which is interesting. So we've gone through a full cycle now from kindergarten all the way to fifth grade or they don't know any different. So this is this year for it. So every year fifth graders give what we call our Teddy talks were Teddy Roosevelt elementary school. So we give our Teddy talks at the end of year and they give a presentation in front of a room full of about 200 people. We invites local celebrities, our local Congress, people and things like that come and visit. And they stand up there and give about a five minute presentation in a TED TED Talks type format about an idea That they've had and they're they're trying to move people forward and you'd be hard pressed to find people at the conference today, which is a great conference that give better presentations than these kids. At 10 years old, it's fantastic and it's transformative in how they view themselves. So what we do that's one thing we're very proud of his heart Teddy talks program. I will tell you that is that not only is it hard for adults to give presentations is that they learn about giving presentations from watching other people that don't know how to give presentations. So it's just perpetuating this bad presentations that you sit Through, it all comes from our need to do this comes from me walking into a classroom and seeing my third grade teacher suffering while her kids were up there giving presentations that were boring and uninspiring and, and it was typical of everything I'd seen in all my years of education, there has to be a better way. And we went and found a better way. So we're hoping that we're changing the way and again in this age where you're going to need to be able to get your ideas out there. We think we're giving our students a real skill that they're going to need. Sure. Sure. Sure, the number one is that the audience is first meaning it's not about you. It's about your audience. What do they need you give it to them? The second is, if it's a good presentation, it vacillates between what is now and what will be. So this is why your life is down. But if you listen to my ideas, this is what it will be. It'll be my veteran you almost the audience, you almost feel like they're going on a rollercoaster ride where it's like, oh, I don't know about this. Oh, it's gonna be great. Oh, I don't know about this. Oh, it's going to be great. And then we have a few other things like how to do an introduction and how to finish it off with what Nancy Duarte calls something they'll always remember or your star moments sta or something that always remember. So we try to do that and there's a few other and then the other main probably thing is how they do their slides. So we do they do present with slides and they have to control you know, a PowerPoint presentation or a Google Slides presentation. But there's things that we put in that likes, lots of slides are too busy or they're showing me five words on a slide are you should be able to read it in three seconds and understand it. It ruins you from going to other presentations because you sit there go oh that's a terrible slide. And there's another teacher that have some time so if I ever see you giving a presentation I take out my phone and take a picture of the slide. I might be sending it to the My another teacher that I always said look at this slide. Add that to the collection but it has been wonderful. This is for the city. years that we've been doing this that kids just they get it and that you start see changes now over time because we check in with the middle school and things like that. Okay. And it also comes in that you're totally right. It also comes from the planning of the presentation like our students. Oftentimes, it's the last, you know, you'll do a project, their presentations, the last day, go do your project. Now I want to presentation. They're doing the work on the presentation the whole time. They're doing the research and the project and so they're laying out their slides using posts. And they're talking about what questions the audience might have. They're drawing pictures of the audience who's gonna be sitting there watching me. So they're considering it all the time. Well, if you, you know, read the book, read it resonate by Nancy Duarte, their little plug for Nancy and her company in. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. She has several books out but that's the the cornerstone one, I think slide. ology is another one but okay. Yeah. So she works. We work with her. Yeah, it's great. It is we have we have been very fortunate with that one, and they've been very, very nice to us. Okay, I would say just, I've taught me how to get into classrooms and talk to teachers and really not only have the expectation that they'll keep pushing their practice, but also have the trust in They need to have trust with you, that you will back them if they're going to try. They're gonna try something new. You know, oftentimes we have teachers at, it's always an easy default. Well, I'll get in trouble if I do that. I Roosevelt, you know, we don't try to get in trouble. But we certainly haven't. We always kind of have an explanation as to why we're doing something. And that's easy for me to then go tell my people, you know, my superintendent, hey, we're going to try this out. See how it goes. Or we're trying this out, and we'll see how it goes. But we want brave leaders are brave teachers. So we need to be brave leaders. So I would get get into two classrooms as much as possibly my number one go talk to teachers, you know. Sponsorship: Today’s Transformative Principal sponsor, John Catt Educational, has been publishing high quality guidebooks, magazines and educator-focused professional development books since 1959. John Catt’s mission is to support high-quality teaching and learning by ensuring every educator has access to professional development materials that are research-based, practical, and focused on the key topics proven essential in today’s and tomorrow’s schools.   John Catt amplifies fresh voices on timeless topics, with a list of authors recognized around the world for their fresh perspectives and proven strategies to drive success in modern schools and classrooms. Learn more about these professional development publications that are easy to implement for your entire faculty, and are both quickly digestible and rigorous, by visiting https://us.johncattbookshop.com/.    Visit this page to learn more about bulk orders and how to bring John Catt’s research-based materials to your school: https://us.johncattbookshop.com/pages/agents-and-distributors   Learn about some of John Catt Educational’s newest publications: What the Academy Taught Us: Improving Schools from the Bottom-Up in a Top-Down Transformation Era by Eric Kalenze Be More Toddler: Leadership Lessons From Our Little Learners by Emma Turner A Quiet Education: Challenging the Extrovert Ideal in Our Schools by Jamie Thom Rosenshine’s Principles in Action by Tom Sherrington The Thinking School: Developing a Dynamic Learning Community by Kulvarn Atwal The researchED Guide to Explicit and Direct Instruction: An evidence-informed guide for teachers by Various Authors

Looked dead, didn't I? Well, I wasn't, but it wasn't for lack of trying I can tell you that. Actually, Bill's last bullet put me in a coma, a coma I was to lie in for four years. When I woke up, I went on what the movie advertisements referred to as a roaring rampage of revenge. I roared and I rampaged and I got bloody satisfaction. I've killed a hell of a lot of people to get to this point. But I have only one more. The last one, the one I'm driving to right now. The only one left. And when I arrive at my destination, I am gonna kill Bill.

Who is Julie Ciardi??? So who am I? Well, I believe I am never done becoming who I am! None of us are. If we aren’t growing, we are stagnant, and I don’t know about you, but I never want to be stagnant. My journey was typical for the first 40 years of my life. Straight A, overachiever in high school, aced college, got the corporate job, got the MBA, got married and had kids. I found myself at the top of the corporate ladder as a vice president in a Fortune 500 company, and I wasn’t fulfilled. I did all the things I thought I was supposed to, but I missed the point of doing something with purpose and passion. But I was afraid, how do I leave a high paying corporate job to pursue my own thing? In 2016, I just decided to go for it. To take a chance. To face fear and discomfort and go for it. I started a side hustle while working full time as a marketing executive. And then in 2017 I made the LEAP. I left my corporate job to be the sole owner of a brick & mortar boutique that I took to 6 figures in less than 4 months. But I wasn’t done. I knew I had a bigger purpose. I started the More than Mommy Podcast in 2018 to help inspire other moms to take a chance, pursue things that light them up and to let go of guilt. The response was overwhelming! The moms wanted more. So, I became a certified life and business coach and started offering 1:1 coaching, courses and programs. I went on to sell my first business, my boutique, and expand my coaching practice to also support small business owners and entrepreneurs in their marketing strategies for their businesses. I firmly believe that marketing is the fuel that launches your business, grows revenue and creates loyal customers. But many small business owners are overwhelmed by marketing and often miss the most basic, simple ingredients to make their marketing powerfully impact their business. So helping mompreneurs and small business owners is my passion, and I also have a thriving network marketing business with EVER, a clean skin and makeup company. I have the most amazing team of mamas creating a fun, lucrative side business. I am also mama to three amazing kiddos and married to my hero, my police sergeant hubby. Be sure to check out my programs, my top recommended picks in beauty, books, and more by exploring the menu of my website. I would love to connect with you….email me at julie@julieciardi.com! xo, Julie - www.julieciardi.com

Conor O'Driscoll is beginning to make a name for himself. After spending part of his career at Brown Forman and Angel's Envy, he was recruited to fulfill the role left behind by Denny Potter. Conor is now the seventh Master Distiller in Heaven Hill's 84-year history. We spend some time getting to know Conor's past, what the recruitment process is like to find a master distiller, what his role is going to be with the operation side of things, and how at the end of the day he just doesn't want to screw anything up. Show Partners: Barrell Craft Spirits enjoys finding and identifying barrels that contain distinctive traits and characteristics. They then bottle them at cask strength to retain their authentic qualities for the whiskey enthusiast. Learn more at BarrellBourbon.com. Receive $25 off your first order at RackHouse Whiskey Club with code "Pursuit". Visit RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. Distillery 291 is an award winning, small batch whiskey distillery located in Colorado Springs, Colorado. Learn more at Distillery291.com. Show Notes: This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about dry January. Where are you from? How did you end up in Terre Haute, Indiana? How did you get into bourbon? Tell us about your time at Woodford. What was difficult to learn about the distilling process? Talk about working at Angel's Envy. Is distilling rum the same process as bourbon? Are distillers in charge of blending? How did you end up at Heaven Hill? Did you have to give up anything to move into this role? Are you looking for ways to improve the legacy brands? Was there a learning curve coming to Heaven Hill? Who determines the increase in production? Were you involved in forecasting at your other roles? How did you learn the Heaven Hill portfolio? Do you have a favorite brand? What was it like to sign your first bottle? 0:00 Perfect timing. Luck of the Irish again, right? 0:03 Yeah. I get to say that one every day. 0:19 What's up everybody? It is Episode 231 of bourbon pursuit. I'm one of your host Kenny and we've got just a little bit of news to go through. Four roses, like every other distillery out there is trying to figure out what do you do with old barrels and there are all kinds of breweries across the nation just want to gobble them up. And four roses is collaborating with Brooklyn Brewery for a new limited release beer called Black Ops. Now I've seen it before, but this one's a little bit different because this vintage of Brooklyn Black Ops was aged for four months in four rows of small batch barrels that were then selected by master distiller Brent Elliott and re fermented with champagne yeast. This Russian Imperial stout comes at 12.4 ABV. raises a fluffy dark brown head combines big chocolate and coffee notes with a rich underpinning of vanilla like oak. Brooklyn Black Ops will be available in limited quantities wherever Brooklyn Brewery is available. A new development is happening in downtown local with a new website that offers an interactive map. a whole list of attractions featuring downtown distilleries like old forester angels envy Victor's plus a whole gallery of pictures. It's called the bourbon district. There are flagpoles and Information Science going up around downtown around the city that gives information history and directions to all the bourbon related happenings in downtown Louisville. You can check it out online at bourbon ism.com that's like tourism, but bourbon ism.com Ryan and myself we traveled down to Lynchburg, Tennessee this week to go and pick our first ever single barrel of jack daniels. We've heard so much about these single barrels being stag killers that we just had to go out and try it. ourselves, we're really looking forward to bringing this barrel selection along with many others to our Patreon community in 2020. And right now our goal is set at 20 barrel selected for the Patreon community in the next calendar year. With the holidays approaching, it's a good time to think about how fortunate we are that we get to enjoy this great hobby of bourbon. With the help of the bourbon pursuit Patreon community and the fellows on the round table. We've kicked off our first ever Christmas charity raffle, go to bourbon pursuit.com slash Christmas to see all the packages that we have lined up. There's bottles of pursuit series, Episode 17, which was our collaboration with willet distillery of Maker's Mark 46 private selection that we did a Russell's reserve from rare bird one to one a victors barrel strength right Elijah Craig barrel proof the old label, Traverse City collaboration from bourbon or as well as breaking bourbon and even more bottles. There's also apparel glassware tasting sheets, a complete signed copies Of all the books that have come from Fred MiniK, as well as a signed copy from sip and corner, Brian Harris as well. Every dollar raised is going to the USO in pets for vets. Both of these organizations do incredible things for our veterans and their families. Every entry gives you a chance to win any of the prize packages that we have. And of course you must be 21 year old or older to enter entries are accepted until midnight of December 22 2019. So please go visit bourbon pursuit.com slash Christmas to get in on the action and help out veterans in this holiday season. Now for today's podcast, Conor Driscoll he's beginning to make a name for himself in this bourbon world. After spending his career at Brown Forman and angels envy, he was recruited to fulfill the role left behind by Denny Potter. Connor is now the seventh master distiller in heaven hills 84 year history. We spend some time getting to know Conors past, what the recruitment looks like. Even like that whole process. Even Find a new master distiller and what his role is going to be with the operation side of things and how the end of the day, he just doesn't want to screw anything up. Alright, let's kick off the podcast. Here's Joe from barrel craft spirits, and then you've got Fred minich with above the char. 4:17 I'm Joe Beatrice, 4:18 founder of barrell craft spirits, we enjoy finding and identifying barrels that contain distinctive traits and characteristics. We then bottle them a cash rank to retain their authentic qualities for the whiskey enthusiastic next time. Ask your bartender for barrell bourbon. 4:34 I'm Fred MiniK. And this is above the char I as a journalist, I get pitched a lot of stories and over the past 15 years, you know in covering the booze business in one shape or another, I have received about every pitch you can possibly imagine from celebrities, to new nightclubs, you know to the fads like white club and every kind of Vodka flavor you can imagine, and yada and on and on and on and on. One of the latest trends in the booze industry is is one of the more fascinating trends that I have ever seen. And that is dry January and this entire belief that the alcohol industry needs to start preaching and talking about not drinking. And what's interesting about this is that you would say, you could take a step back and say, Well, if you encourage people to not consume alcohol, wouldn't that hurt the industry, but the counter to that is take a look at what happens when you drink too much. People die, people die of liver poisoning. There's certain types of cancers that are linked to drinking too much alcohol. There's all kinds of problems that can be linked to over consumption. And by overconsumption I'm talking five to seven drinks a day. You know, getting drunk. Every day, binge drinking to the point of where you have to get your stomach pumped on a regular basis. I mean, these are real issues that people face and to counter that the alcohol industry has been promoting mocktails and dry January. Now, I'm torn, because I'm a firm believer in drinking moderation. And I'm a firm believer in just being responsible. And it's something in our there's something in our country's DNA that we don't allow ourselves to really have a conversation about what is responsibility, even the brand's they're all saying yada, yada, yada, drink responsibly, don't drink and drive all this but what is drinking responsibly? Well, they'll say, well, it's having two drinks, but but again, what is it? Is it you know, drinking, not drinking when you're emotionally, you know, inspired or connected to something? Is it not drinking on anniversary? Is it just having one drink? And, you know, maybe you just got married or you're celebrating something? Can you have five drinks, then? I mean, no one really talks about what drinking responsibly is. They just have their taglines. And now this whole effort about, you know, mocktails and dry January, it makes me question if we truly know what we're trying to do in this business when it comes to encouraging moderation, because if you ask me, getting people to not drink during January has the opposite effect. That's teaching abstinence. That's not moderation. And that's this week's above the char Hey, if you have an idea for above the char hit me up on Twitter or Instagram at Fred MiniK and check out my new YouTube series on YouTube. Just search my name Fred MiniK. Until next week, cheers 7:58 Welcome back to that episode of bourbon pursuit the official podcast of bourbon, Kinney and Ryan here and this is the this is the first time I think Ryan might have been to this office in this conference room, because no 8:09 you haven't. You've been here. I've been here Barney lovers. We were We were not in this conference room. Yeah, I remember when this read 8:14 Yeah. Cuz I was like we had we had Larry on last time. And, you know, so we're at the the, I don't call it the marketing offices. It's the business offices of heaven hill that are located here in Louisville, Kentucky. It's catty corner to the Maker's Mark offices, so they're always spying on each other to kind of figure out what's happening over there and stuff like that. I guess 8:34 bar sounds just not good enough for him. 8:37 I don't know. I mean, I totally get it. There's way more lunch spots and place to take people. Yeah, 8:42 there's more than maybes. But you know, the other thing is, you know, I also feel bad for a lot of the people that that do have to work in these multiple locations because you are, you're driving a lot back and forth to whether it's distillery whether it's the offices because, you know, we're not going to Bardstown. We all happen to be here and global. So it It made sense to come here but I know that you know our guest today he's got to go. He's got to go to the Bernheim distillery. He's got to come here. He's got to go to the Heritage Center. He's He's all he's making the trifecta of all the places he has to hit up. I guess we'll find out if that's one of the perks you know, your mileage, your mileage gas reimbursement, 9:19 or company car when your masters dollars. Absolutely. Yeah. 9:23 So with that, let's go ahead and introduce our guests. today. We have Connor O'Driscoll. Connor is the newest minted master distiller at heaven Hill. He is also the fifth master distiller that's been crowned at heaven Hill. So congratulations. 9:36 Thank you very much. I think I'm seventh seventh. Is that what it was? Okay, then the era era 9:41 fifth and superior than the heaven Hill. 9:43 See what happens? We get Wikipedia information. Yeah, they're right 9:46 in Google food just wasn't on my side this morning. Yep. So Connor, welcome to the show. It's great to be here. honored to be here. Yeah, I mean, we've we've met before we talked and and 9:57 yeah, we did is we didn't wanna Whiskey and dine with getting Daya 10:01 What was that? Was it was that raw? 10:03 Yeah it was what was it a long time it was that was my debutante get to get to know Connor Connor night is what it was so yep. 10:10 And and you know estimate impression and vice 10:14 vice versa yes yeah 10:16 and I could understand like it's got to be difficult coming into a situation like this and and seeing a product portfolio that's the breath in front of you and saying like okay, now I've got to be 10:27 the face of this Yeah, don't screw it up. I mean, that literally was the the guiding mantra the the first one still is don't screw it up. But you mentioned the portfolio. You know, the other place I've worked or you know, great whiskeys, but it was like one whiskey maybe two or three. And now you come to heaven Hill, and there's a lot and honestly I'm I'm still learning the portfolio. But what a fun facet of the job to learn the portfolio. 10:52 Yeah, well, not only bourbon you have like in I'm not sure if you know that all the different brands are 10:58 wearing well. We're making I'm on the I'm still learning the whiskey anything so yeah, we got our five mash bills that go into multiple different skews. And you know everything from the mellah, corn, corn whiskey all the way up to heaven hell 27 with all the fantastic products in between there. Sure. 11:17 So before we get sorry, not the products that we want to kind of get know more about you because I can't pin it down exactly what region from Texas are you from? 11:26 Very, very far eastern Texas. So Far East across the Atlantic, I grew up in Dublin and Ireland. So the joke is they put an Irishman charged with whiskey. Am I living the dream or I live in the stereotype to be determined. So yeah, I grew up in Dublin, went to school there, got my degree in chemical engineering there and actually started my career with Pfizer pharmaceuticals, in Cork on the south coast of Ireland. 11:52 I've been with them for forgetting quite a year and they asked me to go to Terre Haute, Indiana. I have a 12:03 word for john deere. Yeah. 12:05 They had a actually was kind of cool. You know, for a guy straight out of college the we were using a genetically engineered and our genetic genetically engineered bacteria to make the enzyme to make cheese. And it started was a fermentation based process. So you know again for a kid straight out of college This was bleeding edge technology. And it's amazing that you're like this was exciting like 12:28 these were excited on time product 12:29 was exciting. The process is exciting. Yeah. And it was 12:35 it was supposed to be a six month assignment four months and they asked me to stay and six years later I quit. So it wasn't so awful that I couldn't stay there for six years now the people I worked with the fantastic still friends with some of them. You know, the, the, I guess the real thing that kept me there was I reconnected with some friends from Louisville. I started coming down here on the weekends and probably had enough Been for that the the lore of Terre Haute would not have been strong enough to keep me there but you know gotten older level very well got to know the road from Taro to local really really well. And you know like i said i for six years and Taro and I quit 13:15 and spent that summer riding my motorcycle across the country. Oh, it's interesting. Yeah, still still have it's a 93 CEO Harley guy and I haven't heard they said 93 superlight 13:26 spent seven weeks that summer writing 11,098 miles. As I was heading back towards Indiana, I realized it was gonna be very close to 11,000 miles. I said if I don't make 11,000 miles I'm riding around the block. I do make 11,000 13:42 ended up being 11,000. That's like me with my Fitbit every day. I'm like, all right. Yeah. 13:48 Yeah, it's kind of same thing. But I was in Mexico, Canada and 23 states in between. Wow, the week so it's pretty cool. It's quite an epic road trip. It was epic. It was really cool. 13:57 So So kind of talk a little bit more about the road. Trippler were it was there any like other sites that you're like amazed to see, I know for me personally, people always thought about going and seeing like the Grand Canyon. And for me, I remember going to see in the Grand Canyon and you look, you get there and you're like, Alright, let's get out of here like we've seen it. 14:14 Well, so the the genesis of the trip was 1996 was the 75th anniversary of Route 66. So Harley organized is rolling rally, they call it start in Milwaukee for hardware parties are built, came into Chicago picked up route 66 and then followed it west to Santa Monica. There's not much left to route 66 but they had a historian with us who every evening would talk about, you know what we'd seen today what we're going to see tomorrow and it was 400 and some bikes did it and and I was one of them and it was thousands you could join anywhere along the way. So remember riding into like touken Karina Mexico, and just as far as you could see in front as far as you could see it behind double line of Harley's. So that was Very cool, but you know, got to see, you know, all kinds of the US and especially you mentioned the Grand Canyon. I mean, I've been to the Grand Canyon three times twice on my Harley and one the first time was was on this ride. And yeah, it's it's pretty stunning to see it. 15:17 What did you learn about the US on that trip that like that, you know, before I get to our country, you know, you probably have preconceived notions about 15:26 it and like, I know, I'd been in the, in the, in the states for six years and have taken multiple road trips, you know, West and wherever, but to see it from the back of a Harley and to see it for that long. You know, I wrote every inch of highway one Pacific Coast Highway, you know, from the Mexican border, the Canadian border. I wrote over independence pass road across the desert in Texas, you know, there's one stretch of highway there were, you know, it's 100 miles between gas stations. And Mike's got him out of 30 moderating yeah yeah. So I just I mean the vastness the variety you know to go from you know sea level to 14,000 feet that's not four to 12,000 feet anything's past go from the Pacific Northwest Texas desert yeah just stunning 16:20 was a little bit different than than Ireland to because at least in Ireland if you do that kind of driving least you see castles 16:27 across the US like, not really Oh Harris castle is a Hearst Castle just holiday. 16:31 Just holiday. 16:34 Yeah. 16:35 So kind of talk about what's that that next evolution of your journey? How did you get into I mean, you were doing the cheese thing you stopped. 16:42 What I wasn't, I was a pre chorus. I was doing the the enzyme thing the enzyme is I know it sounds really bad. I'm like, I'm gonna do that cheese thing. Yeah, we were we were. We were in the cheese supply chain. But yeah. You know, the process I worked on in Ireland was fermentation based. This one in Terre Haute was fermentation. And after I Well, after the motorcycle trip, I ended up in Colorado, skied all winter, and then got my career going again. And it's an awesome severance package. I had to save smart I know Sarah respects bed safe, smart. And I learned to live cheeping. And so when I got my career go and again, I said, well, I've tried this production thing, I'll try engineering. And I put the design and things and did that for another six years and that was that was less fulfilling. Let's say it was very deal. bertina is that a word? It is 17:35 already me. I will take the take the new terminology, what it was, you know, sit in a cubicle, that type of thing. 17:43 By this point, I was married and I'd always said that, you know, I was going to stay in the US as long as it was fun. And yet once it was no longer fun, I leave but of course, you know, you're still here. It's still here. It's still fun transcontinental motor motorcycle trip. Pretty fun winter skiing. Pretty fun, you know, I've still fun 18:04 20 years later 18:06 21 years later So, you know, I said it quit being fun, I would go back to Dublin and try and get a job making Guinness because that would be fun. And once I realized that wasn't leaving, and like I said it was getting tired of this, the engineering end of things. So I gotta go What's next? You know, where where should I? Where should I take my career and like I said, the biggest thing was in the back of my mind was that it's not the closest thing but you know, kind of along that arc, this bourbon thing seems kind of cool. So that was in 2002 when I really started thinking about it but you know long before any boom long before you know any any even hint of the boom you know, Woodford had been in existence for what six years at that point. That's That's how long ago it was. So I started knocking on doors and it literally Two years before Geico Leo reading or who had run, what's now the brand form of his salary he retired and ever read ratcheted up one and opened position. And I was lucky enough to get hired into that. And the previous person hired into that. That job was my boss who had been hired 26 years prior to that. That's how slow the industry was that but brown Forman hired me and it was like whew, dream job. And I spent five years in Shively, you know, learning how to learn how to run into Syria how to make whiskey and in 2008, nine runner up then they sent me out to Woodford and again Woodford was tiny then but the boom was probably that's, you know, it was probably starting that our had started and was starting to pick up some momentum. 19:50 Yeah, that's when you kind of start seeing a lot of the uptick and rise of people just visiting, distilleries and stuff like that. Not so much the the craze we see today of bye Just flying off the shelf, but definitely a more of an interest from the average consumer. And probably nearing the time to when a lot of distilleries are thinking like, Oh, we probably need a visitor center. 20:12 So when for did have a visitor center, which is kind of cool, but you mentioned the uptick and visitors that literally was the first thing we saw. You know, Hank, at that point, the visitor center had been designed for maybe 30,000 visitors a year and the bourbon trail came on right around then and really kick things up and you know, there weren't that many visitor centers and Woodford had the newest nicest one. And you know, so to that wasn't quite the ground for the Woodford but it was pretty close to it. So to be there at that point in in the industry's growth and in Woodford growth was just well, perfect timing. Look at the Irish again right. 20:50 Yeah. album to get to say that one had bed every day. 20:56 So the I said from 2009 till What was it say? Two years ago 17 was at Woodford did. Most of that was, you know, running the distillery Did you know Did a lot of cool things were worked with a lot of cool people learned a ton. Kind of was part of it was you know, it's just it was gratifying, Exciting, thrilling to be part of the growth of that brand. Like said when I went out there, it was tiny. By the time I left, we were shipping over a million cases a year. And you know, it had become what it is now. Or, 21:29 you know, yeah, you still had a hand and a lot of the product that's still coming out today, anything like 21:34 that. When I left there are people who said, you know, are you going to do it all the person you've told them what fruit you have? And I was like, what a drink it 21:42 and it's good for at least seven years. Yeah, I have confidence. It'll be good for a long time. It's still a good team out there. So 21:47 yes, what to say speaking of the team, I mean, talk about a relationship or time with Chris Morris or anything like that, because I know that you you probably had some sort of interaction with him and we 21:57 worked very closely together and what a cool guy to work with. I mean His his knowledge of the industry and, you know, he he was clearly the tip of the spear in the in the in the growth of Woodford and in the guidance of its growth you know the Masters collections you know I was lucky enough to have a hand on those and you know make several of those but they are all his brain children and you know to work closely with him and the rest of the team as well. And you know the you know, Elizabeth Nicole who's now the system master sitter, she worked with me for a while Woodford and that was that was a lot of fun. She's She's cool. Yeah. 22:36 A little tight knit family. You guys yeah, Christmas cards. I go back. 22:40 We just exchanged bottles. Yeah. So I'm curious when you get into you know, distilling, like you said you you know you came from the end zone fermentation like, Is there like that when you show up as like art? Here's the training manual. And let's 22:52 go No, no, no, their age or there really isn't. And especially back then because you know, when you haven't hired someone for 26 years, there's no onboarding manual, y'all know new guy manual. So it was you know, kind of seat of the pants stuff, you know, I followed my Glen Glaser was my boss learned a ton from him followed him around every day, like a lost puppy, you know, work with the operator is kind of sadness them quite another, those are the guys who turned the vows and, you know, run the show, so, you know, sit with them and learn from them and just kind of be a sponge, soak it up. 23:27 So it was a kind of like station. So like, this month, I'm going to be focusing on how to turn these valves next 23:33 month. It's guys, it's, it's, it's all inclusive, it's kind of in depth. And I remember, you know, by time I joined bra form, you know, I worked in production for six, seven years, I've done design engineering, you know, across multiple different interest industries for another six years. So, you know, hired in and, you know, Glenn said it's gonna take good two years to really understand this process. And I was like, has 24:01 And literally two years to the day, I was like, I think 24:04 I'm starting to get this. Yeah. But it's just you know, it's, you know, you think about making whiskey you know, you get granny mellet mash it from Anna distill it put in the barrel, five easy steps, but you get a distillery and everything's scheduled on top of itself. And there's you got to do this first, but you got to wait for that. And then you got to worry about byproducts and is your East up to speed and blah, blah, blah, blah. So getting the integration of all those parts and the timing of all those parts and just getting everything to work in concert and understanding all the multiple nuances of flash. That's where the, those are the details and that's what the devil is. 24:41 So it's like Malcolm Gladwell, his role of 10,000 hours. So you gotta do yeah, is 24:47 when I read that book, a lot of it. A lot of it rang true. Yeah, for sure. 24:51 I don't I'm not familiar with the book. 24:53 Oh, it's just had that to be an expert. Really, they've, if you have 10,000 hours, like that's where your achievement mastery in any subject, but so, well, that's good to know. So if you do 40 hours a week, there's, you know, 2000 working hours in a year. So if you're just doing the bare minimum, you know, take you five years. Yes. So, I'm sure you're working more in that accelerated. 25:19 So we got a while until we figure out this podcast. Yeah, 25:23 we're only like 500 hours. 25:26 Well, I mean, that's, it's, it's, it's, it's a good way to kind of see how you grew up in and you learn the industry from the inside with inside of brown Forman because a lot of people we take tours and you go through and they really dumb it down. And exactly as you said, they take the five steps and like this is the process. However, there's so many intricacies with inside of that process that that you that you had just talked about, you know, during your time there what was what was one of those intricacies that you said like, Okay, this is this is going to take more time to figure out Like this is where this is where the variables tend to change a lot, that sort of thing. 26:04 So the, the easiest example of that is, you know, the optimizing the easting mashing fermentation at Woodford, you know, when I got there. They were running for mentors that we were making whiskey, everything was trotting along just fine. And like we talked earlier, this is kind of as the boom was starting up, and I was looking at ways to increase productivity and the and the distillery so one of the easiest ways to increase productivity is to put more grain in the fermenters and still doing everything exactly the same way. There's just more grain in there, therefore, there's more food for the east, therefore, they can make more alcohol therefore, you can fill more barrels. So talking with my colleague, Kevin Smith, down at jack daniels, who for every five minutes that I could talk about Eastern he could talk for five hours and and just he's a fascinating guy and just Fanta knowledge, but remember having a casual conversation with him about you know, increasing The beer gallonage and the amount of grain in the fermenters. And he says, Well, before you do that, thanks very polite about before you die, you're going to have to fix your easting was like nothing wrong or easting that's embarrassing. I spent a lot of my early curriculum. And as I, you know, we, we set it from enter and hours later at bubbles and then days later, we get whiskey out of it. And, you know, he very politely disabuse me of that. And that was step one in a two year process to get from where it was a very crude way of managing East that was actually doing more to hamper the East than it was to optimize it. But I said two years into it, and the fermenter productivity was up for you know, 25% the whiskey quality was off the charts the rates of ferment for metric content. We've had zero, you'd walk in the distillery and just smell how good it was. And from a initial notion of, let's put some more grain on the from Enter to two years later, again, I think we're finally turning the corner here. Yeah. And then of course, there were, there was some short term gains that are immediate gains, like, All right, we're on the right path, but to really, you know, get it from a system that might have been that's got 85% efficient to 90% efficient and 95% efficient, the 98% efficient, you know, to really start tweaking into details there. 28:33 Yeah, so East I mean, I guess you probably have a good idea what it's going to do based on experience, but it's a living thing. So are there times that you're just like, what the hell is going on? Like I did everything right. And it's just like, on the ship. 28:46 If you do everything right, it won't. So if it goes to shit, then something's gone wrong. Okay. Yeah, is the bottom line. You know, the the easiest way to think about it, I mean, the East makes all the alcohol and a good chunk of the flavor. So if you treat the strike, she'll treat you right back. And best quote on that. I was doing a camp run amok group at Watford and I had to give a 15 minute masterclass and easting mashing fermentation three times a day, one of the groups the young lady on it after I gave my East HBS as she said, so Randhir East is queen. I was like, Yes, that's exactly it. That's a perfect way to put it. So again, you treat the stride and she'll treat you right. Right back. And, you know, that's, that's, that's kind of the goal. 29:36 So let's move to the next stage in your journey here. So brown Forman, your time there was done in 2017. And you had a little bit of stint at angel's envy as well. You did talk about that. 29:45 Yeah. So I was kind of plugging along doing my do my thing at Woodford and you know, by this stage, I was running the warehousing and processing so another chunk of the industry learning something new. We were building the new warehouses Woodford So, you know, kind of overseeing that and understanding how to operate these giant warehouses. But once we got that system down, it kind of became road and I was like, all right, you know what else? What else is out there? You know, I've had 14 really fantastic years at Brown Forman. You know, is there anything within brown form? Is there anything without and right as I was thinking these things a former brown former former Woodford colleague who's now an age as me, she called me and said, Hey, we may have a position Are you interested? So I went down there on a Saturday morning, various repetitiously and kind of looked around and they heard they were, you know, less than a year out of startup and the brand new facility but in an older building, you've been to them? 30:44 Yeah, yes. Going to say ran into a lot of issues getting that thing up and running, and they got through them all. 30:50 But just everything about it kind of resonated with me. You're like yes, 30:55 I don't want to drive for sales since I was a 30:57 significant part of it because by this point, we had warehouses in midway so my commute was from level two midway check in with the gang there then come back to sales and generally spend the rest of my day ever sales but occasionally we bump between the two of them and then come home so getting close to three hours a day in the car wow yeah audio book time 31:21 have to say I was like I know people in like LA and they do all those commutes every day in San Francisco I'm like, how do you sit in the car for an hour one way every single day like 31:30 I mean, I was doing highway speed so it was it was relatively benign and for most of that time I was driving to Woodford to make whiskey you know it's not that bad. Yeah. But the you know, the the first several months that I was at angel's envy and I would drive home in 10 minutes, I'd literally sit in the garage and I What do I do? 31:50 How did I get 31:50 here? Like 31:52 What Did you take a walk to listen to? That podcast 31:55 way that are better? It's like I better go to the bar home or go to the bar real quick is my wife's can make me do a lot Georgia 32:02 dinner ready so 32:05 that was that was a big one there but you know love being part of a party. It's interesting that the three companies I've worked for in this industry are all different facets of family owned. But 32:17 was angels me family and when you started I was like I'm a car dealer car. I got, of course the Hendersons to 32:21 ride. But it's you know, it was it was fully owned by Bacardi. Gotcha. And Bacardi bring a ton to the table. I mean, they've been there, truly a global company. I mean, we reported up through Geneva, accounts payable were in Costa Rica and sap support was in the Philippines and stuff like that. So, you know, some timezone juggling, but that global perspective was was pretty cool. And just the cultural diversity within the I was at a meeting in Puerto Rico and I was the closest thing to a Yankee in the room and that way any yo You don't get that very often. Yeah. And those like, they're all speaking English for me, because I'm the only one here who doesn't speak Spanish. Yeah, that's kind of embarrassing. But anyway, that was, you know, lots of lots of positive things. Yeah. And again, just a different way of running running the same industry. But Bacardi have a lot of cool things they do, you know, worked with a lot of really smart, hardworking, fun people there. And of course, you know, see an angel, you know, I think the, when I came in, they were just coming out of that startup mode. And, you know, I was tasked with kind of taken out of that wild west, just run headlong at the prop problem till you fix it. All right, let's slow down. Let's think about it. Let's get a process in place. Let's think about where we want to go and how we're going to get there. And just start, you know, like slapping a process on stuff. 33:53 This is an amateur question, but a is distilling around the same process as Barban, but just different ingredients. Different agree it's basically the same. You ferment molasses Sure, Ryan. But then of course it's it's a shorter faster you don't have to mail anything you don't have to necessarily mash anything. 34:12 And then the aguar DNA 34:16 the letter that I guardia day, what is that? It's funny 34:21 to say it's it's the the new make sense. Gotcha. And then you know it's aged in general use barrels for shorter period and of course it's the heat of the Caribbean versus, you know, the seasonal cycles here. Sure. But I know it's I kind of left before I really could deep deep dive into that process. But you heard the word Bacardi and you're like, 34:44 I got a question, but 34:46 let me throw a curveball over the other. I mean, the fermentation and distillation are 34:50 very, very slowly never talked around distilling. 34:54 I've never been around the city. I saw it on TV. 34:58 But no the gang There are there. The Joe Gomez the master Blender down there is just he is one of those icons of the industry. The nicest guy you'll ever meet will talk all day long about it and just he, he wants to be your friend. You want to be his friend. And to spend time with people that can was cool. But then, like the biggest difference, I guess, is the aging. 35:23 Gotcha. So you talked about how he's the master Blender did do distillers here are they in charge of blending as well. 35:32 With the careers of master distiller spanning almost 50 years, as well as Kentucky bourbon Hall of Famer and having over 100 million people taste his products. Steve nalli is a legend of bourbon who for years made Maker's Mark with expertise and precision. His latest project is with Bardstown bourbon company, a state of the art distillery in the heart of the bourbon capital the world. They're known for the popular fusion series, however, they're adding something new in 2020 with a release named the prisoner. It starts as a nine year old tennis bourbon that is in finished in the prisoner wine companies French oak barrels for 18 months. The good news is, you don't have to wait till next year to try it. Steve and the team at Bardstown bourbon company have teamed up with rack house whiskey club rack house whiskey club is a whiskey the Month Club on a mission to uncover the best flavors and stories that craft distilleries across the US have to offer their December box which will ship in time for Christmas features a full size bottle of Bardstown suffusion series, and a 200 milliliter bottle of the prisoner. There's also some cool merchant side. And as always, with this membership, shipping is free. 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Live fast and drink responsibly. 37:32 So you talked about how he's the master Blender did do distillers here are they in charge of blending as well or generally speaking, so that's you know, it's interesting. You know, in Rome, it's all about the blending. 37:45 And that's why the the focus is on master blenders and you know, if you look at the history of Bacardi, the Bacardi founding members have generally come up through that. That that that supply chain, I guess what do you want to call it? Through that right? beams, you know, yeah, exactly. I mean, so the the people running the business know the business. 38:07 But then on our side of it and the bourbon 38:12 you know, blended bourbon is kind of it's still got that post prohibition nasty connotation. So we're not set we don't focus so much on the on the blending side of things. Although, you know, there that is that is, you know, one stave to our barrel as it were. 38:30 Absolutely. So, I think we're going to see a common theme here because I think this is a, probably an inhibitor to a lot of people that that work in your type of scenario in this type of industry. It's hard to maybe make upward progression, because there's people within these roles that are there for 38:50 10 2030 and there's only a handful of them. 38:54 That or you're in a situation where is it as a family legacy? You Got the nose, you've got the Russell's odds are they're not going to let some outsider come in. Cecil come in. And so you have this sort of like this cap on upward mobility. And so you had your your time at angel's envy. So kind of talk about how this process came to be of interviewing at heaven Hill and making some connections and kind of making your way into this role. 39:28 So I known Alan through the industry on lattes or co I known him for several years, just through the industry, like I said, and you know, I was I was happy at angel's envy. I was planning on going nowhere. I was not planning on going anywhere, whatever. And then the news broke that Danny had left and I mean, I was stunned as everybody else but I never I didn't even think like hot there's an opportunity for me. was like, wow, Danny left. So many Alright, so you were all your agent 40:03 start negotiations, 40:04 maybe I should. But actually, it wasn't long after that. That was Danny reached out to me. And because again, I'd known Danny as long as I've been in this business. And he said, he'd been asked to find some suitable candidates and you know, thought me and I was like, wow, I'm so flattered. You know, I hadn't even thought about that. But 40:26 Wow. 40:28 I thought about it. I was like, You know what, I've got a really good job here. I just made a big move and 18 months ago. I'm gonna stay here. And we chatted some more. Thanks very much. That was really flattering. And it's kind of one of the things as soon as I hung up, I was like, 40:43 Damn, it probably wasn't the right 40:45 answer. And then went home told my wife about it and she goes, Yeah, that wasn't the right answer. So 40:53 I forget if Alan call me next or if Danny call me back or what it was, but either way we got back in touch again. I was like, yeah, let's let's see. Let's talk. And the more I thought about it, the more it made sense. What were the hesitations? The fact that I just made a big move and I liked what I was doing that changes me. I liked being part of a party. 41:15 Yeah, it's it's always tough to be put in a situation like that you feel like you're going to burn a bridge by coming in. It's like 41:21 coaching in basketball. You know, somebody had a mid major, they're happy. They're doing well. And then you're like, but the big leagues you're feeling Exactly. 41:27 And it's funny. You said the big leagues. You know, that was kind of the the catchphrase we will but I bought it down by my office at angel's envy overlooked slugger field. So as I'm thinking through this, it's like I'm, I'm pitching AAA and doing fine pitching AAA and the Boston Red Sox, the New York Yankees just called I just said no to the New York Yankees Don't say no to the New York Yankees. Yeah. So luckily, the New York Yankees were upset that I had said no the first time and you know, we talked back to the forwards and the more 41:58 you played hard to get Wherever you go, you go by 42:03 the throat whatever cliches you want that the more I thought about it, just the more it made sense. So this is a you know, the the legacy of heaven Hill the career progression, the whole thing just kind of came together at that point I was like this is this is a once in a career opportunity. If I turn this down, I'll never get this again. And you know if this if I'm truly going to take my career to where I think it should go, this is the opportunity and so far so good. 42:34 It's kind of like it's kinda like you're also in a position like you're a Supreme Court Judge like you've been placed in a position where like, unless you really screw up like you're pretty like there's unless this this whole thing like tanks and there's a nuclear like breakout like you're going to be pretty well set when it Are you having a good there was a nuclear war. We got bigger things to worry 42:58 Yeah. I'm sure yeast will survive right now it's it's it's not quite I haven't kind of docked the ship and I'm done you know there's there's a lot of work to be done a lot of cool work to be done and I'm not gonna I haven't reached a point where I can you know glide into retirement or even I want to rest on my laurels or anything I don't know just sit on the shoulders of those who came before me there's there's a lot left to be done. 43:24 What are some of the like sacrifices or I guess parts of the job that you know you're I guess when you're working at Brown for and you're kind of behind the scenes you're not having to deal with a lot of stuff 43:34 that hard was 43:37 showing up with these idiots taking up an hour Monday 43:42 samples right now yeah, 43:43 I guess talk about that. Like, you know, cuz when you're you like you said when you go to the big leagues, you're giving up a lot. What what are some of those things? 43:51 I'm so 43:54 much giving up i think but you know there. 43:57 I think in any career as you as you Move up the food chain you've gotta gotta learn to delegate and either hope that you've got a good team behind you are engineered a good team in this case, I don't have to hope I do have a great team. I mean, this is Tara has been running for a long time before I got here making award winning whiskey for a long time. So my job is to kind of slide in pick up the reins and keep that going and on that upward arc. 44:27 Yeah, there was a time period between you and and Danny so seems like York it was still running I mean, that doesn't stop Yeah, 44:36 and nothing good stop and as I say the you know, the supervisors that are there on every shift the the team members on on the shift the maintenance guys the the whole crew, I mean, you know, we're we're lucky enough to have, you know, a painter and a janitor, they're young, they work hard to keep the place look and clean and the air is as important to the operation. him probably more important than I am. But yeah, you know, it's it's they're, they're a good team. They work hard they care and I was I was, you know, when Alan took me in to show me around the salary on a Saturday morning everything was done Saturday mornings, very surreptitious. You know, it could pick up I mean, the crew members who were there that day, we're happy to see him. And, you know, they, they clearly were into what they were doing about me. I went, we run seven days a week, and they they work seven days a week. And they were happy to do that. You know, like I said, so they're, they care, they're passionate. They want to make continue to make award winning whiskeys. 45:40 Yeah. When you when you have said, distiller like heaven Hill, he said, it's such a legacy, great brands, incredible products. And like you're like, All right, here's my baby. And they've been doing it so great. But do you look for ways to like, improve the process or look for ways like to put your own fingerprint on it, or at least two years before it changes 45:58 to do the 10,000 hours Again, hopefully it doesn't reset zero. Now Hey guys, like I said it's pick up the reins and keep things going. There's always opportunities for improvement. You know, go back to what I was talking about Woodford I mean Woodford is making good whiskey before I came along. And I had the opportunity to, you know, start optimizing. 46:22 You know, where the Bernheim distillery now is obviously, further ahead than where Woodford was in those days. But there are still opportunities to, you know, just to continuously improve. And speaking of opportunities, talk about what was that that learning opportunity and learning curve of coming in because Ryan and I, we've we've been to the Bernheim distillery, we've we've toured it and we know like the massive scale of what it's what happens there. And so kind of talk about was that sort of like a bow. This is this is pretty big, because I know it's it. It basically makes angels me look like a dwarf at that point. Compare that to word for that. 46:58 Yeah. So it's actually Talk about that. 47:00 So I mean, the the scale of the Burnham disorder is stunning. I mean, we have 17 fermenters that are 124,000 gallons each. We fill four of those a day. And obviously we empty four of those today. So that's the bones of a million gallons of liquid. We're pumping around every day. We're mashing over 16,000 bushels a day, which is over 900,000 pounds of grain a day. That's about 20 ish loads of grain to unload every day. No, no others like 650 thousand barrel warehouses eggs. Yeah, we have 58. Whereas with over 1.6 million barrels, you know, at the Burnham side, we have 480,000 barrels, and we're building a new 50,000 55,000 Bioware has about every six months. You know, we're we're laying down 1300 barrels a day, and we're probably dumping we I know we're dumping less than that. We're probably dumping the order 1000 maybe a little more than that per day so we're continuing to grow our inventory who determines that the numbers I guess of how like how to increase who determines to increase or decrease numbers very finely calibrated crystal ball so it's a it's a dark art you know as you see the sales are this today they look to be that six months 12 months whatever from now we have this much an inventory of things continue this way we should have that much. So we look at we look at that big picture probably, you know, indeed now we're looking at continuously but in detail for twice a year and make adjustments as necessary. 48:42 Was this this role your first time of actually looking at forecasting Did you do that previously in other roles, um, I would, I was involved another role that the other sites as well. 48:53 Brown Forman, have a have a guy called bill Dietrich and he runs the model and And he would bring out the serie production plan, but I worked fairly closely with him and you know, it changes MV was you know, we were so small, so new, there was no existing data to build on. So I built this very complex spreadsheet that was, you know, I ended up calling it the Wonder file. Okay, they kind of got that nickname but, so yeah, I've been involved but it's it's, you make guesses. You make projections. You know, you hope you got it. 49:32 Right. And it's not just a general longer. Yeah. 49:36 Yeah, hopefully you don't have to age a little less. Right? We plan for x, but you know what, it was actually 1.5 x so like, Oh shit, what are we doing now? 49:45 So to also talk about coming into heaven Hill, and we talked about the, you know, the breadth of portfolio of just the Bourbons and whiskies that are in front of it. And I'm sure that as as the master distiller like that as your that is your front, front line of things. That you, you talk about and you're the face for. So where is there like, like a week long boot camp where somebody sat you down and said, All right, so we're going to go through everything you've got to remember every little nuance and the history of them. Like how did that process go? It was a little bit of that. So I spent a fair bit of time with the brand teams and they gave me the PowerPoint decks and the swag and whatever else been 50:23 flashcards. 50:26 In here, the real learning though, gotta get 10 in a row. 50:29 We mentioned Bernie lovers are here. Yeah, you know, I've traveled a fair bit together already. And, you know, go to the whiskey fest and stuff. And, you know, we've gone and done, you know, trainings at restaurants and bars, and, you know, learning it from him and seeing some of his his presentations. That's that's probably where I did most of the learning. 50:51 Oh, he is Yeah, he's the whiskey professor. Any 50:53 fun to learn. 50:54 He already does. Yeah. 50:56 Well, he was up he was playing stump the chump with us. 51:00 I know he made us look like gentle Yeah, no, he 51:02 is asking us questions we were like we weren't paying attention 51:06 he's he's really good at what he does and but of course tasting the portfolio matter way to learn it. Yeah. Anyway, the the funniest one is Pikeville rye. My neighborhood liquor store on Frankfort Avenue. I'd walk by and see Pikeville rye and I read it as Pikeville Ryan I was like who's making rye whiskey and Pikeville Kentucky and then a month later on the master distiller for that brand and I go 51:30 Yeah, I 51:32 know that and I tasted that I was like holy crap This is good. Yeah, and I known Rittenhouse for a long time I love written as but pikesville kind of takes it that takes the next level the next level. 51:44 Yeah, absolutely. I mean it is so you talked about Pikeville is like is there any other like bourbon line that you kind of look at as like yeah, this is this is gonna be like my staple like this mean you gotta kind of give everyone their level. Like is there one that is there a favorite child out of the group? Well, I mean, the main And she left older children. 52:03 So you know you think about we got five Nashville's, you know I think we're the only ones making those five Nashville so the five American whiskey styles and they go into all the different brands so when we make the our bread and butter is hh reg or rye bourbon and that goes into Evan Williams, Greg Hunter mccanna whatever it might be. So learning that progression, you know, Evan Williams is you know, it's a 2.7 million case brand is the second largest selling barber in the world. And it's a you know, if you look at it, if you compare it to the competition, you know, it's age longer, it's higher proof. I think it tastes better. You know, and I that kind of to see how that, you know, ages out and becomes either mccanna are Elijah Craig and how good they are and either on the rocks or I've had some fantastic cocktails lately with our portfolio. It's It's It's It's been a fun journey but even like the I hadn't had much weeded bourbon in recent decades. When I started when I started drinking bourbon by the first one of the very first ones I had was old fits. So find out the way on offense and then we've got larceny and you know been so used to ride a Suburbans and to realize that you know, these leaders are actually they're pretty good on in their own right they're just not just like a light whiskey they are a really good you know, subset or you know, that different side of the same coin type of thing. And so to and of course the the old fits the the specializations that we bring out that are, you know, 1213 years old are just spectacular. Yeah, 53:47 and that's what I think is probably, you know, everybody always always get there's, there's so many brands inside heaven. Hell, we've been in a label room before. I mean, there's there's hundreds if not, maybe they're 53:57 they're literally dead. 53:58 So I mean, it's, it's it's mind blowing but then you know the as you'd mentioned there's an old Fitz relates there's the heaven Hill 27 year releases and people go crazy for the William 54:07 heaven Hill 54:08 and the partners but you're in a unique position because you get to try and sample and taste all these at barrel proof and you get to choose which ones that coming from so I 54:17 get to be part of the 54:18 Yeah, so it's it's that's always a fun experience because like I said, you get to do like the real unicorn part of it right you know, you don't get might not get to see the empty or the the final packaging of it but you get to see the process from really like where it started up until that point to now it's really good like we were doing a barrel selection for hotels liquors yesterday and to you know, we were tasting some the 12 year old at 151 proof now, 54:47 you gotta change the barrel pics two barrel proof pan. We gotta do. Yeah, it kills me. Let's see, we'll start there. And every time I go to a lot of the correct there's three right like it's always the hardest barrel pick because there's three like yeah, stoners from dedes Phil or whatever. You know, and you're like, gosh, I don't want to water this down. But you know, 55:04 I understand you, you, you, you take it to 94 proof and you're comparing apples to apples, right? You know that it's not just like the proof for the color, right? So you're kind of changing your mind. It's like, all right, I know that. I'm comparing the same thing, the same thing for the same thing. So you're getting, you're getting honest whiskey. 55:21 Yep. And so one of the last things I kind of want to wrap it up with is kind of a fun question. Because I want to understand like what your thought process was when this first happened, so you're going to be in front of a lot of people and I'm sure you've you've gone and you've made your rounds at the whiskey fest. And there's always it's a it's a responsibility of a master distiller or brand ambassador, whoever's the face of the brand to sign the bottles. 55:44 Yeah. So, 55:45 so kind of talk about what it was to like, sign your first bottle and go, okay, I've been here for like two weeks. So yeah, like what was that? Like? 55:54 So? It was it's kind of mind blowing to be honest with you. 56:00 Whiskey fest Chicago, I think it was, you know, we have that partnership with Goose Island. So me and Bernie and Mike Smith from Goose Island were doing a presentation on basically barrel aging and better that and afterwards somebody came up and asked me to sign their their ticket or their program or something. And you know, my first reaction was like, seriously, by the cross, I was in my head. But you know, you play the role and that's this person has spent their hard earned money to come and listen to me yap about whiskey. So like, thank you so much. I'm honored to sign it, but it's it's pretty cool. 56:38 You know, our Evan Williams 56:42 HERO program where we recognize veterans, you know, we were down with Chris cruise at cruise customs flags last weekend, he asked me to sign a bottle and he's put a ton of pictures of it on Instagram. And I'm like, anyway, you're the coolest guy. Stop making me look, I just I just scrolled on the bottle, you know, but so it's It's honestly it's gratifying. But at the same time it's it's a little shocking that right? This year Really? 57:07 Yeah. Because I remember it was, it was at the heaven Hill select stock 18 year release, and I'd saw you there. Yeah. And people were aligning, aligning to get your signature. And it was it was just kind of dawned on me. I was just like, he wasn't here 18 years ago, but it's so funny that like people, they gravitate towards you and they want that as sort of like a recognition of it. Yeah. 57:28 And that's that's the role and it's you know, and I kind of enjoy playing it Yeah, it's pretty fun but like the your celebrity 10 years ago, the What do you call it the two weeks after I start Henry McKenna wins best whiskey in the world. And you know, all these people are interviewing me and say watch it liked him. I was like, I had nothing to do with whiskey. But it's very cool that I'm writer and of course, the original mechanic was Irish and I'm Irish, so maybe, maybe maybe smiling down and look at the Irish there. It is. 58:00 always come back to it. Absolutely. 58:02 It's a great way to kind of wrap that up there. So Connor, I want to say thank you so much for coming on the show today. It was a pleasure like I said just to get to know you i think i think it's it's an opportunity for people to really see the the real personal side of you. You know, we just talked before we start recording we all live in like the same neighborhood. Yeah, we all we all drink the same whiskey now too. So it's, it's always fun. And let's 58:24 go to Red Rock and have a cocktail. Yeah. 58:27 Seriously, once again, thank you for coming on and doing this and you know, Ryan, I think this is a great opportunity for us to a get to know Connor and understand really his background and you know what, he brings the table here? heaven. Hell, too. 58:39 Yeah, it's a cool story. I mean, like, from Dublin to Bardstown. You know, who would have thought? Who would have thunk But no, I mean, it I'm, I'm heaven Hill is like, in my heart, because I'm from Bardstown. My fam ton of family members work there and like just that for me and Todd with the I know, it's in good hands. And, you know, that's, that's it reassuring and so I'm glad that they chose you and you decide to call him back and appreciate you taking the time to spend with us. And yeah, if anyone has show suggestions, comments, feedback, we love hearing from our listeners. So just let us know and we'll see you next time. Awesome. Thanks, guys. Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Remember that one game that despite how terrible it looked was one of your all time favs? How bout those games as beautiful as can be, yet somehow flaming trash heaps in gameplay. This episode we give our personal picks for best of the worst, and the worst of the best. Episode Transcription: The below is a machine based transcription of this episode. Sorta like Skynet if it was 2 years old, and wanted a cookie. Take it with a grain of salt. Jake 0:01 Episode 10 the good, the bad, and the ugly Today onWulff 0:07 peskiGP 0:28 Hello and welcome everyone to press B to cancel. My name is Guy friend. And with me today we have our usual days of rapscallions to my left is where we'll say hello werewolf. Hello werewolfGP 0:44 aptGP 0:47 also with me today sick JakeJake 0:49 here buddy glad to be hereGP 0:52 and of course, Polish 109Palsh 0:56 Whatever happened to polish runaway nevermindWulff 1:00 Yeah, we had to let him go.Palsh 1:03 Yeah, aGP 1:05 lot of turnover in the police departments, there can be only one. There can be only at pulse post is the equivalent title to Highlander if you're Canadian.Jake 1:16 Alright, so that's a worldwide sensation. I'm sorry, everybody in every country loves Highlander.GP 1:22 That's true. That's true. Okay. Alright, so today, we're going to be discussing kind of a variety. It's a little bit of a different show tonight. Typically, we just take one game or one series, and we discuss our experiences, our likes or dislikes. Tonight, we're going a little bit different. The title of the episode tentatively was called the good, the bad and the ugly. If you don't know what fugly means, have one of your ugly friends explain it to you. So essentially, the idea of this episode is that we can all acknowledge the great Games, they look good, they play good, the sound is great. And we can all acknowledge the crap games, they look horrible. They sound horrible. There are no redeeming qualities. So tonight we're discussing the ones the games in between games that either look gorgeous, but are otherwise devoid of anything meaningful. We will call those Travolta's or the ugly games that have a lot of heart. We're going to call those quasi motos. Okay, so those are the two categories today. I'm going to start us off and then we'll discuss and you know, go around the table as we always do, but we're going to start off with the ugly but great or quasi modo category. And I tell you what, guys, let's just go through different video game systems. We'll start with the eight minute video games. For me it's any s, which is going to be Bionic Commando. Okay, so I love this game. I played it on stream recently, and I'm always reminded about how much I love it but truly Fully the color palette is obnoxious. There's not the greatest animations between your character or the bad guys that you're trying to kill. And it's repetitive as hell. So that's kind of the idea here. Let's talk about Bionic Commando. And if you guys agree, let me know if you disagree. Let's have that conversation. werewolf. What do you think?Wulff 3:20 You know, I've actually not played a lot of Bionic Commando. I think the last time I played it was, gosh, I was seven years old. So almost 30 years ago. Good grief. So I can't say much to it. But I can say that from what I've seen people play on Twitter recently. It's not a pretty game. But I do see a lot of people playing it on Twitter recently. So that must be some somewhat test some testament to its quality.GP 3:51 Sure, yeah. Okay, so it's a popular enough game. It's not always the best to look. So if you're going to watch Bionic CommandoUnknown Speaker 4:00 A beer to firstGP 4:02 beer or do you first gotJake 4:04 Yep. enhancerGP 4:07 Okay, sick Jake. Paul What do you guys think about Bionic Commando?Palsh 4:12 We go I'm sick regoing sick Paul shirt Jake 109 Who's going first?Unknown Speaker 4:18 we merge together we are oneGP 4:21 yeah give us that sexy fusion voice yeahWulff 4:23 that trunks fusion voiceGP 4:31 Alright, so I guess we'll go with Jake first.Jake 4:34 What do you think about Bionic Commando supplying commando? I played this quite a bit as a kid. I'm just trying to struggle how much variety was there in the enemy'sGP 4:45 will as far as the enemy sprite goes? All of your entry level guys are pretty much the same. They were maybe one or two like older throwers or you know rocket launcher guys, but otherwise Yeah, all the same.Jake 4:56 Yeah, like none of them stand out to me. In hindsight when I kind of Going back to that game, I don't remember anything notable graphic wise, I remember that. I remember the back color palette like you mentioned, for sure. It's poor choice. They're all they really remember but graphics is the main character. As a kid, I thought he's got a doc rip off with that weird mechanical arm. That's all I got from the game graphic wise. Nothing memorable at all. I didn't care for Gameplay wise, it was actually quite fun. I mean, mechanics were solid.GP 5:27 Right? Yeah. And I think that's exactly right. I think the biggest mechanic or the biggest saving grace of this game would be the mechanics, no jumping, just extendo arm. And also I to me, I love the sound. This is for me one of the rare games where the not just the soundtrack. But the the, the noises of the game. Were so perfect. And for me they invoke such a strong nostalgia, but I mean yeah, that's I think that's exactly kind of the heart of what the category is. So post, what do you think about commandoPalsh 6:01 I, it's pretty much the same as Jake is like, I don't remember a lot. But the things I do remember that kind of stuck in my brain like I remember not being able to jump and always wanting to swing like Spider Man basically, ever since now I was like, Yeah, I want to do this I remember playing the game and I think this is so cool. But I never thought it was amazingly good luck and I just thought that was the coolest idea. So I think sure yet looks was no, but you know, gameplay was I thought it was fun. So I agree with you.GP 6:36 It's got that heart that addictive quality that after you leave the game, like if you haven't beaten it, you know you're wanting to go back and continue or you know, just pick up where you left off. Yeah. Now I'll say this. I don't have this for every category, but the eight bit ugly but great category. I have an alternate or an honorable mention. And I'll say this real quick, Final Fantasy the riginal a bit Final Fantasy not a pretty game, but damn it was amazing. I no no no you guys know I love Final Fantasy. And it was great for what it was and what it sparked. But going back it is it is dated.Wulff 7:16 Yeah those those tiny backgrounds and battle with just four characters in a box and a little background and then the rest of its blackGP 7:27 it's it's a sexy older sister, I guess technically the sexy younger sister of Oregon Trail,Jake 7:34 which,Wulff 7:35 I mean, the game was based on d&d, so it was leaps and bounds from pen and paper numbers, but they still hadn't found their visual groove yet by any means.Jake 7:51 Of course, but the enemy sprites and the boss sprites that game were extremely detailed and there's a lot of variety and the monsters you face because I thought about This game is well for my list. I didn't do it because of the variety of monsters on the graphics, the sprites.GP 8:05 Yeah. Okay. See, I could definitely concede to that. But you know, to the point of it was inspired by or trying to invoke d&d as a great point because d&d requires a lot of good imagination to fill in the gaps visually and I think that is the point to Final Fantasy that I'm trying to make is there's some cool ideas there. But with the limited motion and animation you really have to use your you know, theater of the mind as it were to to fill in those those gaps.Palsh 8:37 That's pixel or a nutshell for me, so I agree. But you can get some effing cool pixel art that said, Okay,GP 8:45 I don't know No, no, that's good. Actually polish. Let's go to your what's your quasi modo game, the uglyPalsh 8:52 but great game, this one stuck out to me and just because it I was felt like it looked like an entire game to me. Kind of That meant that made it with an any s game and it still had kind of elements of mostly Atari boys blob, because the graphics were really great. But the whole premise this game was hard, I still won't touch it because I'm just I don't have the fear of failure. But the fact that you could, you know, give them like 40 different jellybeans and have all these different things like you could turn your blog into a trampoline or a ladder or a friggin rocket you know, it's it's really cool but the graphics didn't keep up but I thought considering how ugly it was it still was pretty fun. And so that's that's just what stuck out for me.GP 9:44 Yeah, I I own a boy and his blog and I have started a boy this blob but I think the graphics and I hate to say it this way because it makes me sound so shallow. But I think the graphics is prevented me from really getting into it. So I think that It's a bit of a home run for choice there. But I can't speak to the greatness of the game just to the just to the ugliness as far as the sprite quality. And you know the image quality in general. Yeah, everything isWulff 10:15 the design choices as far as the characters, they're very ugly. Yeah, there's not a lot of detail. However, they're really smoothly animated for how ugly they are, which I always found kind of odd.Palsh 10:28 Yeah, and I think that's part of it, too, because they ended up it was so simplistic. I think they ended up getting a little bit more leeway when it came to animating them.Wulff 10:37 Yeah, but yeah, that that game is definitely a favorite of mine. I had that growing up. I don't know what happened to my copy. I don't remember getting rid of it. But I don't know if it got lost in a movie or I did eventually trade it in or something. That is a game I put far too many hours into as a child. Oh my goodness. Like, I can probably still remember What most of the jelly beans do. That's how much I played it. Catch up a catch a pole.Palsh 11:07 Yes.Wulff 11:09 That is licorice ladder root beer rocket.GP 11:13 I had a root beer rocket oneJake 11:17 I think I agree with GP on the terms of the graphics is what probably turned me off in the game as well. I didn't really finish it. I spent I made it to the offworld section and that was interesting. But you spend majority of your time on the ground and there's such a limited palette of colors down there. It's all brown and black. I found it extremely dull.Wulff 11:36 Yeah, they're their color choices definitely reflected what they went back to in the early 2000s just with less bloom. Right? Yeah.GP 11:44 Well, Jake, what What game do you have for us? Ugly but lovable for the eight bit?Jake 11:52 I mean, I mean, some guys know me. If I'm not complaining about a game on I don't like it. And they'll go on game I complain about all the time is our type for the master system this game is brutally hard for me. It took me forever to beat it and I had to use a continue code to do it. It's great The gameplay is classic to me the bosses are awesome. There's also mechanic where if you don't be the boss is fast enough to take away from you. There's you know, upgrades. It's a great game, poured it on literally everything. But the matches is the one is the one I played the most. But the thing that makes it ugly is there slow down constantly, there's flickering every other level. There's one level I want to say it's the third one where the background is this organic, pulsing like red color. But that's fine, but the enemy shots are also red. So because of the poor choice and colors of the background, the enemy bullets, you can't see where the bullets are half the time in addition to all the flickering. So like the graphics are just terrible, terrible. I've seen this game in arcades and it looks 10 times better. It's a shame because it's a fantastic game gameplay. It's plays well for me in any system. I know of the Master System and I love it there but the graphics on that system just can't keep up.GP 13:06 Gotcha. Okay, so I hear you saying that you've only beaten it with the continue code. So what you mean is you've never beaten it. Little bit of shady games each otherGP 13:30 sick burger.GP 13:33 Wolf, what do you got for us for ugly URL now? I'm sorry. Let's not do that yet. A portion where what do you guys think about our day?Wulff 13:40 Um, I've never been a fan of shoot 'em ups and bullet hills. So our type was one I didn't really get into. TheyPalsh 13:49 kind of blend together for me. Not that I'm saying it was a bad game or anything, but I can't tell the difference between archetype and Gradius. And anybody who's a shoot 'em up fan right? I was probably wanting to strangle me so I apologize but either way, honestly, you're not wrong. There are very few shooters that pull me in.GP 14:09 Yeah, I'm with you. I think the only one that really stood out for me was like life force. And that's that's really the only one I paid attention to. I'm kinda like you guys with that so I will have to take sick Jake's word on this one. Yeah, but I believe especially I mean, yeah, I've never heard of anything like that where the bullets are the same color as the background. Obviously that is a horrible designWulff 14:35 that's that's a controllers are are right there.GP 14:38 Yeah.Palsh 14:39 It ends up being any s heard.Jake 14:42 It belongs in any as hard but different system.Palsh 14:44 Yeah. Gotcha. Master Cisco. doesn't have the same ring to it.GP 14:49 doesn't roll off the tongue as much. Yeah.Wulff 14:53 Alright, so what do you got for us on your quasi game, the game that everybody is familiar with. The Ninja for Master System but this game, the gameplay is an absolute blast. You're running around you're throwing jerkins at people you get upgrades to your stuff like movement upgrades, weapon upgrades, special attacks, all sorts of crap the enemies there's all sorts of enemy types they have different a eyes the levels get mixed up summer like a lot of them are just you know, go from the bottom scroll upward. Occasionally it's like scroll from right to left but they've got like the river level where you're trying to move from log to log and kill enemies before they get you stuff like that. They did a lot of creative things with the game, but boy did it not look good at all. There were a lot of sprites and they were a lot of ugly pixels. That the colors like they use really bright colors, their eye catching colors. But there's so much of one color that covers the screen at a time that it just it fries your eyeballs a little bit. That that bright neon green grass.Palsh 16:11 Yeah, everything looks green afterwards. It's like you're wearing you must be wearing like some like tinted sunglasses afterwardsWulff 16:19 Yeah, there's there's almost there's really very little detail on any of the locations in the game. You got to use your imagination a lot. But that game is so much fun. And it's it's a hard one. So it's one of those ones that's like punishing and you want to go back.Palsh 16:38 I didn't even know that was for Master System. The first time I actually played was on like a bootleg 31 and one NAS card and I had no idea that this is bootleg up until like, a few years ago so I was like, This is amazing. Oh, nevermind.Jake 16:53 Spiders in that you also picked a Master System game. Do you think it's something to do with that system and that just couldn't put out The solid graphic power to handle those games because there's a few other games that are also not that great graphic wasWulff 17:05 no because there are some actually really pretty Master System games to the the Master System graphically had superior capabilities to the ns but you have to remember they were a lot more companies pumping games out on the IDS it's like it's it was the platform that was supported versus the platform that wasn't it doesn't matter how much power it has if people don't know how to make use of it.Jake 17:30 Like I'm just thinking of the Sonic games, and some of them are really terrible. The slowdown is ridiculous lots of flickering like it is. It's disappointing because there aren't great games on the system is one of my favorite systems.Wulff 17:41 Well the Master System. The Master System is just a Game Gear. It's it's a Game Gear Fit to TV resolution, or rather, at the Game Gear is a Master System fit to a smaller resolution. They're they're the exact same architecture. That's why all the emulators run both of them.Jake 18:00 Interesting. Okay,GP 18:01 okay, so that's our that's our time for a bit games. Let's move on to 16 bit if you guys are ready for that, is that good? Sure. Holy cow. Is that that claw?Palsh 18:14 Yeah, we'll call theWulff 18:17 next bitGP 18:22 is one of those rare occasions where I wish I had worn pants now? Well, I'll tell you what wolf blitzer with you 16 bit ugly but great. What do you think and start race effects?Palsh 18:34 Yeah.Wulff 18:36 Not absolutely good. It had a lot of character in the graphics, but it was not pretty at all. The, for whatever reason, I'm pretty sure those What is that? gas. That gas station with the chevron? Pretty sure those Ever on cars were inspired by this game.GP 19:03 Or vice versa. But it's a goodWulff 19:06 Yeah, I've I you know what, they dropped it on the switch this week. And I went back and played it. And I had so much fun with it. Oh my goodness. It was a lot of fun. And I used to play it a lot to player which I mean, you can play two player races against the AI as well. Which is pretty taxing on a Super Nintendo. Which I'm pretty sure that killed the frame rate big time, so it made it even uglier. It was still somehow playable. And it was a lot of fun. I really really enjoyed that one.Jake 19:41 Yeah, I was gonna say the only time I saw framerate that bad post mariokart the switch was after watching stunt racer x like, it's like three FPS. It'sGP 19:52 you know, that brings up I mean, we'll have to see how the rest of the show plays out but I've had in the back of my mind like that. This big question mark of the two categories today, how many sports games or how many racing games ultimately are going to be referenced? So we're going to chuck that down as you know, the first one I suppose for, for racing, but that's, that's interesting to me. I think that's a good pic. Absolutely. But I'm glad you chose that because, well, that was on my short list of like five games. I was so hesitant to pull out as a racing game or a sport themed game. Because those really didn't hit their stride until you know much later. But I like that one pulse. What do you got for usPalsh 20:34 on 16 bit mine is pretty much the 16 bit argument all over again from from a pit I've got a game that was hard that I loved, but the same kind of problem lemmings and I hate saying it because let me look terrible Lamine, but they're, you know, like they're like six pixels each. So you can't really complain too much, but the idea behind it again, was so cool like you could make one guy stop everybody else Another one would start digging and other woman started digging upwards and whatever. So game itself was just great. The music is probably one of the top five for like Super Nintendo for me for for soundtracks. But I just remember and it never bothered me about the graphics I'm just saying it's just that they don't look great.GP 21:26 I tell you what I appreciate here is Forgive me for saying it this way. This shame in your voice when you said lemmings? It's almost like you know, it's 3am I've had a few drinks I'm lonely. I'm going to call lemmings and not tell anybody about it the next day, so I love that See, that's why I love this. This idea for the for the episode. You sneak that Kelly? Yeah, you got me good. No, I love that. I think that's a great choice. And I think we've all done that with either lemmings or a game like lemmings were like ah I just want to want to save my appetite but I'm not proud of it let's let's play lemmingsWulff 22:05 yeah that's good. What do what do you guys think about lemmings? That's actually another game where despite the ugliness of the palette, and you know, the little tiny characters that you can barely make out, they were really smoothly animated and they can eat a lot of information with what 15 pixels.Palsh 22:22 Yeah, that here but what they were doingUnknown Speaker 22:26 that's pretty impressive.Palsh 22:28 Yeah. So they, they definitely went for function over form. And they I think they succeeded. So I mean, that's that's saying, Oh,GP 22:38 yeah, it's, it's a great game. It's that argument again, it's got a great personality.Jake 22:45 Okay, all right. The backgrounds, okay, granted, not all the backgrounds are your hot redhead, okay? But a lot of them look fine to me. There's one I played on the Genesis so 16 bit and the one level or there's couple levels with the forest theme. I thought that looked amazing. And the fact that you could dig through the leaves of the tree and everything looks great to me.Palsh 23:08 Yeah, I can see your point there.Jake 23:10 Plus the intro was funny. I thought the intro was well animated.Palsh 23:13 Yes, true.Jake 23:14 I like six pixels. What are you going to do, right? There's only so much you can do with six weeks one character.Palsh 23:19 And now you see why I feel guilty even saying it because it's like, there's so much charm to this game. And considering what they've done with it. SoGP 23:27 I think it's a great game that conveys exactly what it needed to but you're right. There's not much frill to it outside of like visually, it's not arresting in a positive way.Wulff 23:39 Yeah, it's not something that ever made me stop and look when I saw it on a screen anywhere. But playing it I could not put it down.GP 23:48 Yeah, it's a game you play in your own home. Like if you had gone to Walmart and got on the display, you'd be like not here lemmings. We can know each other but nobody can know I'm going to sound like a jerkPalsh 24:04 Just you wait I'll get you backGP 24:07 okay all right so polished one or nine with lemmings subject. What do you got for us? 16 bitJake 24:14 16 bit So you mentioned earlier about racing games and this is technically a racing game. It's unit racers for the snice Oh man, IPalsh 24:21 forgot about that.Jake 24:22 So I don't know if you guys have played this game before. cyclesPalsh 24:26 Yeah, I was like yeah, just cycles without right.GP 24:29 Yeah, I rememberJake 24:29 Yeah. It's the weirdest concept for a video game I've seen in a while. But I love the hell this game I got it at a US store for like 10 bucks. Graphic wise. Literally you do you guys said it. You're just a unicycle no writer. And the tracks are basically this candy stripe. You know line that loops around and goes left to right. There's not much going on graphic wise but Gameplay wise the tricks system in it. There's like a dozen different tricks you can do with your your bike. You know flips and cartwheels, all kinds of crazy stuff. And you need to do those tricks in order to build speed and momentum. And you kind of get tied up in the different modes. Like some of the modes are focused on doing the stunts, and the ones are about speed. Some are just like, you know, marathon and length. There's a lot of variety, and tracks in the game. The game plays outstanding. The only problem is, it's a lot of them with the same precursor to Tony Hawk'sPalsh 25:23 Pro Skater. And a lot of waysWulff 25:26 Yeah. Now that you mentioned it, yeah, that game did a ton of stuff for being a 2d side on racing game.GP 25:34 Yeah, but I think when you can make the argument that if Marble Madness makes you look like a chump, then Okay, you know, yeah. Well, they might be but you can't tell because there's there's just no way no, no, I think that's a good and you're right, like, that's that's their kind of racing thing as well. So that's, that's interesting. I remember the game I don't remember much of playing it though, but I can see it in my mind. And yeah, I agree. I think that's a good good entry. WhatWulff 26:06 do you guys think? I would agree that that game was not a whole lot to look at, like it was cleanly animated. But there was a is literally, you know, the track is just a candy striped bar on the ground that moves around. And then you're a unicycle no character on the unicycle. You're just a unicycle doing stunts and tricks and jumps and bouncing around and zooming along. So it was it was a limited presentation type of game. I wouldn't sayGP 26:38 yeah, but werewolf the way that you just described it, like the you're a unicycle going around doing tricks and bumps and jumps. I if you said that to me, I would actually I would want to pick that up the way you just presented that actually had me interested. I'm like, Oh shit, maybe I should play this again. It was an absolute blast. It really was. I played the crap out of it. Good. I mean, that's, that's the heart and soul of this, this category, so that's good. I'll jump in now with my 16. But I was torn between two. So I'm going to pick the little, the one that's a little bit more controversial, just because it'll be a better discussion, but I was thinking about doing Starfox but I think we can all agree it did not age well it was not great, but it's a fun game. I know. Jake loves it. But what I'm gonna I'm gonna, what I'm what I'm gonna officially state is the original Mortal Kombat. Now I love most Mortal Kombat. It's, you know, in the series, but if you look at the first Mortal Kombat, and when I first played that I played it around the same time as Street Fighter two. So comparatively Street Fighter two, crisper cleaner, brighter, smoother. And to me Mortal Kombat, though I enjoy it. The first one was very clunky you hear how stressingPalsh 27:56 though I enjoyed, you know, he's he Doing this rightGP 28:00 because I Well, there's there's points coming in later polish. Their Mortal Kombat will make other entries in the future. I you know, starting with Mortal Kombat two, great franchise. And if you look at this disparity between how poorly the first foot looks and plays, compared to MK two, that's kind of the crux of my argument for Mortal Kombat. If they ended the Mortal Kombat series with the first one, it wouldn't have made the list but out of all of it, yes, MK one. Not that great, in my opinion, fun to play, but just pretty ugly.Palsh 28:38 You know, I can get beyond that. I thought it was really cool to see Street Fighter two, and had all the way smoother animations and stuff but I mean, they weren't taking, you know, real life models and trying to digitize them. So the the motions and the animations were so much more fluid because you're working with the cartoon versus real life. So it was fun. Don't get me wrong, but, you know, I thought it looked pretty bad.GP 29:05 Yeah, it's the video game equivalent to spawn the live action movie. Yeah. Yeah, it didn't necessarily look that great. Also, some of the acting was hit or miss. But in the end, there's something about it that I still love. But yeah, well what do you think about that Mortal Kombat? Ugly but great or just a game? What do you think? I thinkWulff 29:25 it's just a game. I was never drawn into Mortal Kombat. Like all my friends were a I mean, I was in the initial rush of it. Yeah, it was like, Oh my gosh, they're just brutally bashing each other's skulls in and there's blood and Oh, man. But at the end of the day, I was still kind of like well, street fighters more fun and prettier. Pen over this. I granted my experience with it was a neighborhood full of kids who had the Genesis so it was even more limited than the Super Nintendo one. So I'm kind of colored by that memory. Everybody I knew had it for Genesis, because of course more blood.GP 30:04 Right? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Jake, how about you?Jake 30:09 I've been I hate disagreeing with you guys on every game. It's not that but Okay, look, you're right Street Fighter is definitely notPalsh 30:16 garbage say it's a game.Jake 30:18 It's not it's not lukewarm garbage at best. Okay? You microwave me onWulff 30:25 the garbage?GP 30:27 If your argument against me here's it's not that bad. OkayUnknown Speaker 30:33 then it's kind of that bad.Jake 30:34 All right. The color palette is a bit limited, I give you that. But the digitized actors was revolutionary and they look pretty good. In fact, I wonder if you compare the frames of animation in Mortal Kombat vs. Street Fighter? I bet you they have the same frames. The only difference is not as colorful. And like you're right when you mentioned later entries, the series that kind of expand on that. Moral Kombat three is one of my favorite fighting games and the color Pelletier is amazing, but just watching Keno. That rapscallion thrusting his fist in somebody's chest and pulling out their beating heart. That looked great. I thought that was hilarious as it was good looking to me at the time. I like to look at the game I also love subzero team some zero I will be for life. I thought the sprites and the characters were well done. all agree Street Fighter looks better, but I think brutal combat is not as bad as you think it is. It's no clay fighter but that way. Okay,Palsh 31:30 basically, Jake feels like Cora when he got punched in the nuts in the first movie.Unknown Speaker 31:36 That's true.GP 31:38 And the rest of us feel like Johnny K. Yeah.Palsh 31:41 hundred dollar glasses, glasses. SoJake 31:45 last all this before or after the discectomy I'm leaving that one.GP 31:50 Yeah, glass, all for the wind. Okay, I like that. Okay, so um, next is going to be the 32 bit category. Let's start with Paul. Tell me Whoa, and let's, let's, let's clarify this. This tier is 3264 bit because we'reWulff 32:05 Yeah, it's the same generationPalsh 32:08 so we can switch it up. Okay. So I'm going to name a game. And I'm going to tell you guys what the game and I want you to tell me if you think that I think it's ugly but amazing, or if I think it's terrible, but beautiful.Palsh 32:22 Okay. Okay.Palsh 32:25 Castlevania Symphony of the Night.Jake 32:31 Okay, if you don't think that's a pretty game, there's something wrong with you.Palsh 32:33 Yeah, that was just trolling. I was hoping. For more.Wulff 32:38 See, I was in on that one. Otherwise, I probably would have laid into pause What the fuck is wrong with you?Palsh 32:46 Know, that one I can't say anything bad about so. That's the joke. So anyways, continue forward.GP 32:54 No, now you have to give us a real game. Yeah, I believe a beautiful 32 or 64 Doom 64 Okay, okay, tell us about that. Why why why do you hate that game so much?Palsh 33:06 It would look great. I remember seeing magazine ads, I remember playing it or not playing it wanting to play it. And then finally I went out on vacation, came back and had a copy of it my hand I was like it was this or Duke Nukem. 64 I was already playing Duke Nukem 64 I was like, okay, so I need something new for me, my friends. So we can just lay into this game. And I tried it. I was like, This looks so cool. And then I realized this, like, this game is crap. I was so disappointed with it. It moved well, like the graphics look great. But it other than that, it just felt like a little bit better version of doom to me like, and I can't play the original Doom anymore or give it headaches just from the motion. So it looked better. But I was disappointed because I thought it was, you know, the 64 and it just meant it was for 64 and I thought it was going to be the actual Doom with better ground. Fix. Now it was completely different. Like they made their own game and I was just I wasn't ready for that disappointment. You've you've given me a bit of a revelation here and agree or disagree but let me know. Would you say no?GP 34:16 Okay, moving on. No. Would you say that video game commercials and box art and descriptions? Were the back in the day preteen equivalent to Tinder profiles.Palsh 34:32 Never thought about it now.GP 34:33 Yeah, they show up and you're so excited because their profile and then they show up and you realize this is not what I thought it was going to bePalsh 34:40 at all. Man, sir.Jake 34:43 Well, you are thirsty and hell.GP 34:46 Oh, God, thirsty for that video game. Yeah.Palsh 34:51 I didn't care about girls back then. I just cared about more video games. Just thinking about that power ofGP 34:57 the power of what was your favorite position back then? 64 cut that out.Jake 35:05 Nope. Three hands on the stick.Palsh 35:08 That's my joke on you need three hands to play an M 64 controller.GP 35:13 Yeah, we saw that name then way nowhere. Okay, so Doom 64. werewolf. What do you what do you think? agree disagree?Wulff 35:22 That's one I don't know much about unfortunately. I thought it was just gonna be Doom for in 64 so I didn't bother with it.Palsh 35:34 PC Okay, shut up.Wulff 35:36 No literally like I thought it was Doom like because I played it on. I think I played it at a friend's house on PC and then I had played it on Super Nintendo. So I was like, well, I played it on a couple of platforms. I don't want to play it again. So I didn't play it for in 64Palsh 35:53 Yeah, well that's that's exactly why I bought it because they'll say Oh, man, like it's a better version. No.GP 35:58 Wrong That's brilliant wrong. Was that Charlie Murphy? Wrong?Wulff 36:05 Or the tigers in Wow, wrong? Yeah.GP 36:10 Okay, but see like how great of a pic was that pulse bought the game because of two words. Doom 64 did not buy that game because of two words. Doom 64 I swipe left soWulff 36:26 hard.Palsh 36:30 Man. I practically hit super like all right.GP 36:35 I don't get that reference. I don't know super late.Palsh 36:38 I'm very single. We'll put it that way.GP 36:44 Okay, so, Jake, what do you do? I'm 64Jake 36:49 I'm actually not a fan of doom. I actually don't like the series at all. Although the recent PC ones that came with the reboots, those are okay but the classic do my never really cared for and there's a series of games on the 60 That kind of tried to bring over to the PC stuff. There's Duke Nukem and hexen. And I think XM XM hex n. That's a word was the better of those type of games that 2d sprites in a 3d world? I didn't care for Doom 64 at all. I did rent it. I played a little bit. I couldn't care for it at all. It is ugly. I'll give you that. I just also think it's a bad game.GP 37:23 Yeah, and I think Doom 64 was one of those games, where I watched my cousins play it. And I loved watching them like I could keep up with it. If I was watching somebody else, but the first time I tried playing it, it was like I completely forgotten what it was like to look at the game and could no longer keep up with it. So I played maybe 30 minutes of it and realize this is not for me to play. But it was entertaining to watch other people run and gun and blow up stuff. So I like it and the visuals are okay so long as I am not guiding the visuals. But that's that's just me say Take what do you ever is for this category? Ugly but great 32 or 64 bit? Okay.Jake 38:07 Hear me you Final Fantasy seven. I love this game.GP 38:11 I think that's a great choice Yeah,Jake 38:13 everybody loves family seven or at least people who were in that generation love probably seven. Today it doesn't hold up for sure I mean the pre rendered backgrounds and in the CGI very pixelated very under rez for today's time but even back in high school I played this game originally, the sprites and the overworld and the exploration areas like cloud looks like some kind of peanuts character mutated into 3d polygon. And there's no textures anywhere to be found any of the enemies practically It is one of the ugliest first gen 3d games I've ever seen. Like I'm talking marrow 64 Meg's father's sevens cloud look like fucking the Mona Lisa. This game is the only reason people like this game. is because of the FMV The video is very cool. And I love that story. I love the music, and the gameplay is fun. But it's ugly as hell.GP 39:09 No, I think I think that's, that may be one of the best because that's exactly right. And I think part of the reason Personally, I was so let down by the graphics is because the commercials that came out back in 97 for the games pretty much only showed the FMV it's the one so your hype for this and you're like, Oh my god, considering the last Final Fantasy with six leaps and bounds and you play it and you're like you said you're just playing to get to the next video. But somewhere somewhere in there you fall in love with it. That's probably like the earliest version of you know, people getting mad because of, you know, not showing gameplay, you know, because that wasn't the practice back then. You know, everybody just played the game because there weren't cutscenes like that. And now it's like the cutscenes look awesome, but let's see what the gameplay looks like you know, so you have gameplay trailers besides you Know the actual trailer? Well yeah, it's the video you ever been catfished by a video game? That's the idea right? The whole dating thing around again? Yeah, I think that's brilliant. I think that's a great observation and that is the cultural and historical significance of the Final Fantasy seven commercials. But if you go back and still because I did this recently if you YouTube the original Final Fantasy seven TV commercials I still get the same feelsJake 40:28 Oh yeah, the atmosphere is amazing and and said jump from snez to PlayStation you just so hyped that the game is going to look amazing and that we all love family six I think of this podcast and just yeah the sprite work and there's great the bosses look I'm awesome. It's graph as graphics are amazing because 2d, so you just really hoping that for the jump to 3d would be something amazing. And what they show you the commercials. Looks great. But that's maybe about 10 minutes of FMV the entire game.Palsh 40:56 YeahWulff 40:58 that's true. Wolfie what do you what do you think? Final Fantasy seven okay I'm probably in the minority here to where I'm not a huge fan of Final Fantasy seven that's not to say I wasn't when it came out I played 200 hours probably in that first go through where I did just about everything I think except killing Ruby weapon I even made a second Knights of the Round soGP 41:25 so I'm hearing you say you never beat Final Fantasy I'm playing I'm playing I'm playingWulff 41:33 now I I even made like I I enjoyed that game so much that time that I even made a friggin anime music video and I am V out of it back in the day with VHS like that was time consuming first I was dedication.GP 41:49 Yeah,Wulff 41:51 I still that's the only one I did. Oh no, that's not true. I did one with Resident Evil as well, but I really enjoyed that game the first time and then every time I've tried to play since I can't put more than like three hours into it before I'm just bored and walk away the game. Like even when I tried to play it a second time back then I was just like, man, I can't. So, to me the game, it hits some notes the first time other than that, I can't agree with that. It's an amazing game. I feel like it's just been overhyped so much. And I think it's also the fact that it wasn't my first Final Fantasy, a lot of people who love it, it was their first Final Fantasy, and that's often the case, but I will agree the game didn't look quite as good as I was hoping. But then I had spent all summer plans so he could n and Wild Arms and compared to Wild Arms. It was damn gorgeous.Palsh 42:47 Wait, you mean it's not pronounced suikodenWulff 42:49 crap? No. But yeah,GP 42:53 it's pronounced Wild Arms thatWulff 42:57 that jump from sprites. It makes It with those backgrounds and everything it even though they weren't pretty polygons by any means for the characters, it was still an exciting change of presentation that let them tell the story in a different way.GP 43:12 And I feel like with Final Fantasy seven they overcorrected the ship when they came out with Final Fantasy eight, with seven, the backgrounds looked more lush and detailed than the characters. And then they came out with eight. And the background was kind of put on the backburner, so they could focus on the sprites and the overworld for the main characters. So at least they paid attention and corrected a lot of people's biggest complaints. But yeah, I think that was a good good entry there. Were all four do you have for us in this category? 32 to 64 bit ugly but lovable Bushido blade? Yeah, we couldn't Bushido blade.Wulff 43:53 I'm not gonna lie. I was kind of a square fanboy back in the PlayStation era. So I was getting all their stuff. Like it I had bought total number one nobody got total number one, but I got Bushido blade and it's it's not what I expected it to be and I had so much fun with it. And my friends and I we would just sit there and play Bushido blade for hours just because the combat it was so intricate for as limited as it was, I mean you injure your opponent, but if you got a killing stab that was it that that match was over with. There was no health bars, it was injury or death. And you can even mess up your opponent by like throwing sand in their fat face like a dirty rapscallion and then taking advantage of it. It it was it was so much fun and even just unlocking it. The the I think it had a couple of hidden characters. It was totally worth it. Just there was a lot of nuance to the game. Play that you don't see in a lot of fighting games.GP 45:03 I'm sitting here I'm trying to remember exactly which one Bushido blade was. So it was it was a fighting game.Wulff 45:09 Yeah, to a degree. It was a weapons fighting game. And I think you actually got to choose between a few weapons to if I remember correctly. Yeah, you're right. What the cover looks like I'm sorry, I'm trying to remember this one is black and white with I think a big big red splatter on it is like a black and white pencil drawing or ink drawing of somebody and then a big red blood splatter bladeGP 45:39 I'm also Yeah, I google image that endure. Yeah, I do remember now. I'm sorry. Thank you.Wulff 45:44 But yeah, the the character models were not pretty that the locations are not very pretty. They weren't even very detailed. It was like one of them was a big courtyard of cherry blossom trees. And it looked like they just copy pasted the same square aware of the arena over and over and over and over the lawn from one end to the other until they got to the opposite wall.Jake 46:05 There was a wonky camera and that came for sure used to zoom way out or like really get really closeWulff 46:11 yeah cuz it let you run away from the your opponent pretty far right? Which of course just made the characters even more unreadable?GP 46:21 Yeah, yeah more obscure. But yeah, I'll be honest that sounds like a piece of crap well done that's not a good entry sick Jake, what do you think about that one?Jake 46:33 I love the game to me. We talked about this before the podcast procedure plays one of my favorite games of the PlayStation because it's not that many I played on that. The combat that one on one combat. I just love how most weapons strikes will like outright kill your opponent if they connect but there's all about the Perry system. And that's pretty unique for its time and there's not many games these days that have that same you know, do or die combat system. But I just love it when you thank you Nick's amazed leg that dropped to the ground. But they weren't dead. They still kept fighting while they're on the floor. I thought was hilarious. I loveWulff 47:07 Yeah, they'll they'll like drag one leg while like trying to walk with the other leg with this horrible limp and it's great.Jake 47:15 It's like Black Knight fight, right? Yeah,Wulff 47:18 you break their arm and it just falls limp. They should have made theGP 47:23 Black Knight like an unlockable character.Jake 47:26 I'll know your polygons off. It's great. I love it.Jake 47:31 The backgrounds I agree are bad. But there was a style to it though. Like the bamboo forest, the cherry blossoms it kind of felt like that martial arts, you know trope that's set up in a deserted field. A courtyard has been cleared away to warriors that battle. It had the style, but yeah, you're right. It did not have the graphic power and the textures to back it out.GP 47:54 And then in the background, you see just the opening scene from Ninja Gaiden taking place.Palsh 48:00 As long as that music from ninja guidance playing I'm down for it. I love that game.GP 48:07 Okay, so Polish What was your? No You got us at the beginning. Sorry I got Castlevania joke. Yes. And the wolf goddess with Bushido blade. Jake What do you got?Jake 48:21 We went seven manGP 48:24 that's right that's how forgettable of a game that is.Wulff 48:28 Bomb.GP 48:30 I know I'm just I'm drinking drinking my haterade tonight No, I The reason I'm selling is because I've got so many honorable mentions for this category for 32 to 64 ultimately, I've settled on one but Metal Gear Solid has not aged well. This is not my These are my my honorable mentions. Such a great game, full of story and a lot of amazing twists and turns, but even playing that way came out. The graphics took me out of it. Mortal Kombat mythology sub zero. The fighting in that I don't know if you guys ever played that the graphics were bad. The fighting style was decent, but the platforming was abysmal, but it was still oddly charming because it's sub zero in an open world type setting. But ultimately, I think I have to settle for ugly but with a lot of heart, Nintendo 60 fours, GoldenEye. It was going to be that or Superman 64. And ultimately, I just don't care enough about Superman 64 so GoldenEye because I love that game. I don't know how much of the actual game or campaign I ever played through. I know I've watched it wire to wire with my older brother, but the four person you know, challenge mode was my entire experience pretty much with the 64 like that and Mario 64 and not much else. But he did great Yeah well but I mean even if you guys ever played like the giant head hack or you know code for golden it came on game was so yes DK mode so incredibly ugly but so much fun and it for me it was one of the first multiplayer you know games like that What do you guys think about golden I polished let's start with you know you summed it upPalsh 50:23 I really can't add to it because it's just I want to say I loved it when it first came out but at the same like for graphics was but I think it was more just how you could shoot people in the crotch and they grab their crops and then fall over dead you know or it would tell you like give you the tally of headshots arm shots leg shots torso other you know other was always the crotch shot so right yeah, but I mean the graphics as much as I want to admit I thought they were amazing. I think it was more the gameplay itself soGP 50:59 no slough Rizzoli. I'm still still playing that from an unfinished game that we started back then. That's impossible. Well, what do you think about GoldenEye? Ah,Wulff 51:11 yeah, a, it didn't have a whole lot of texturing I think the majority of the the texture quality went to the characters faces, but not their models. So the game itself though, was an absolute blast. It wasn't a whole lot to look at, which is probably for the best because it I think it helped it run a little smoother. There were a lot and 64 first person games that made me gave me headaches or made me dizzy, something like that. Man, I spent so many hours in that game with friends after school. We just go to somebody's house and play for like two three hours that day and then do it all over again. The next day. It was crazy.GP 51:54 Well, and it was just good enough of a game to make you want to hate your friends. Oh yeah, only for a short for short amount of time because like you said the next day, you're fine. Or if you were mad at somebody, you were only mad until you shot them in the crotch and then you were squareWulff 52:10 that that Mario Kart 64 games that end your friendship for the day. Yep. And but it's fine tomorrow.Palsh 52:18 Yeah. And then you started all over again with the next match.GP 52:20 Yeah, we should we should set up a multi person. tournament or like cast of if we can figure out a way to do that either like Mario Kart orGP 52:30 golden I think would be a blast. There's a PC version. I think actually, if GoldenEyeWulff 52:34 And isn't it awful?Jake 52:37 Okay, just likeGP 52:42 Okay, cool. So Jacob, what's your take on GoldenEyeJake 52:45 wolf said I pretty much nail on the head with the low character Polly's or low Polly's link character models, the triangle shaped heads, it reminds me of that music video Dire Straits money for nothing. We're just Bismillahi low polygon models and it's just terrible plusses against 64. And hey, I love the system. I love Nintendo but they had the fog problem like the jungle level and the Russian level it just the design to get around the graphic failures. They brought in more fog, just more fog. And they do that all these games and it's just does not work for the game at all. But it's a fun game. I used to play multiplayer like everybody else. Proximity mines is my favorite weapon. I love that. Yeah, I love the game and I love playing it but you're right. It's it's ugly as dirt.GP 53:31 Yeah. Do you know who I killed more with proximity mines than anybody else yourself? Yes, me. I find my short term memory man. I try.Palsh 53:40 I tried to lure people into it without setting it off myself. And was very unsuccessful.GP 53:46 Shit went to the to the point of the fog. And to kind of again, put this all in the same packaging as the Tinder and the dating things. They do the same thing in nightclubs. You know dim the lights a little bit and put into more fog, it'd be fine. So we've all fallen victim to that it's okay. Alright, so on to the other side of that coin. Let's now examine the beautiful games that are completely without any other merits. Next time, well maybe not next time but in the upcoming episodes on presby to cancel. Let's go around and restate our names a group of rapscallions and tell everybody where they can find us. Jake, you want to start us off?Jake 54:33 Sure I'm sick Jake, you can find me on Twitch and Twitter. And I guess hereGP 54:39 Wonderful. Thank youPalsh 54:41 push. You can find me here most of all, and I also stream very sparingly on Twitch as well under pulse 109 pls h 109.Wulff 54:52 Okay, very good. And well. You can find me streaming on Twitch or here or occasionally posting on Twitter. werewolf w ar EWLFFGP 55:04 awesome and I am guy prime. You can find me here on Twitch under the retro therapy or on YouTube, Instagram or Twitter as the retro therapy, everybody until next time, thank you so much for joining us.Jake 55:21 Special thanks for music go to Arthur, the ancient found on Soundcloud or the last ancient on YouTube. For more episodes, please visit our website presby to cancel.com as well Feel free to like or subscribe at Apple iTunes, Google podcasts or anywhere else you'd like to listen to your favorite shows. As always, thank you. This has beenWulff 55:42 a do againSpecial thanks to Arthur The Last Ancient on soundcloud for our podcast theme. For updates and more episodes please visit our website www.pressbtocancel.com, or find us on Twitter @pressbtocancel and Instagram @pressbtocancel.

This week, listen in shocked disgust as Danny shamelessly runs with scissors while Mike looks on wondering whether or not he ought to intervene. Do we want what is best for us? Do we need a powerful other operating with utter conviction to lead us forward into the promised land? What do we do with the alien? Do we lock them up in Area 51 and dissect them to learn more about ourselves? How do we relate to the other? Who is the junior partner? Am I good enough for you? I bet I’m not, I’m just a resource to you aren’t I?? Well that’s fine, I don’t mind, I don’t deserve you any way, you are much prettier and smarter than me.

Rapp Report Daily 0435 What is the Difference Between Soul and Spirit? Have you heard the words; dichotomy and trichotomy? Boy do seminary students loved debating this one. The idea of dichotomy is that man is made up of two elements the immaterial and the material, in other words, the immaterial being the spirit and the material being the body and what they will argue is when you see the word soul or spirit, it refers to that immaterial part. Trichotomous are going to argue, we are made up of three parts the soul, the spirit, and the body. There three separate things. And they are going to say that the soul and the spirit are different. So which am I? Well, actually neither. I think that this is a fallacy of the excluded middle because of the way it is worded. If you define dichotomy as material and immaterial. Yes, I agree. If you say that it is that soul and spirit are the same thing. No, I do not agree. So, it all depends on how you define these things. What is the difference between soul and spirit? Well, body always refers to that physical part of man both agreed to that. However, when it comes to soul and spirit, there are some differing views. Now soul and spirit do have different words in Greek. Spirit always refers to the immaterial part of man. So that is always immaterial. Soul sometimes refers to the immaterial and sometimes refers to the body sometimes refers to the whole being. So, I would say soul can refer to the immaterial the material or the whole being. This podcast is a ministry of Striving for Eternity and all our resources strivingforeternity.org Listen to other podcasts on the Christian Podcast Community: ChristianPodcastCommunity.org Support Striving for Eternity at http://StrivingForEternity.org/donate Please review us on iTunes http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/rapp-report/id1353293537 Give us your feedback, email us info@StrivingForEternity.org Like us on Facebook at http://www.facebook.com/StrivingForEternity Join the conversation on our Facebook group at http://www.facebook.com/groups/326999827369497 Watch subscribe to us on YouTube at http://www.youtube.com/user/StrivingForEternity Get the book What Do They Believe at http://WhatDoTheyBelieve.com Get the book What Do We Believe at http://WhatDoWeBelieveBook.com

"The secret to success is to own nothing, but control everything.” - Nelson Rockefeller So last week in Episode #26, I spoke on the need of Landlords to treat this profession seriously and run their Rental Properties like a business. Well, this week I speak on why you should avoid the title of "Landlord" and being known as the property (business) owner entirely - own nothing, but control everything. But for me, its a matter of pride that I own over a dozen Rental Properties - so my default answer to the question of "Are you the owner" has always been to quickly and proudly say "YES!" - and claim full Landlord status. Why shouldn't I? Well there are reasons you shouldn't. A better answer to that question may be "No, I'm the Property Manager". And so in this episode of the [... and Landlord!] Podcast, I go into details as to why being known to be the owner, is not likely to your benefit. Its better to be known as the Property Manager than Landlord or owner. Because the owner is a mean and greedy SOB in the eyes of many; whereas the Property Manager is just a hard working employee (just like the Tenant) - who must unfortunately adhere to the lease in all dealings. The Property Manager would love to waive the late fee for the Tenant, but they must adhere to the lease and treat all Tenants the same. As Property Manager, you'd love to let the Tenant out of their lease early, but you must adhere to the full term of the lease. You have no problem with allowing the Tenant's boy/girl friend move in, but as the Property Manager, you must adhere to the lease's stated authorized occupants. When you're the owner, you're the bad guy. But when you're the Property Manager, the lease becomes the bad guy. This may sound like semantics, but it gives you tremendous freedom from negative perceptions from Tenants when you can point to the lease (that they agreed to and signed), and explain that you must adhere to the lease in everything - no exceptions. And when you are not seen as the owner (who is thought to be able to make exceptions at will) - life as the Property Manager becomes smooth in comparison. So in this episode of the... and Landlord Podcast, I talk about my initial desire to claim full Landlord status, proudly being known to be the owner. But how I've since come to realize that this is not necessarily in my best interest. And so upon coming to this realization, when now asked by a prospective Tenant, "Are you the owner?" - my response is now always, "No, I'm the Property Manager." - listen to this episode to learn why you might want to make that your answer to this question as well.

So this weekend I had the honor of being invited to go and speak in front of around 80 to 90 Ultimate Frisbee players who were at their first training camp trying out to be selected for the World Championships in Netherlands next year.And for those of you who don't know, I have been an Ultimate Frisbee player for the last 16 years. It's been a long held passion of mine and it was really neat to be able to be a guest speaker at this training camp and to talk about finding your finish line, which is a big tribute to Nathan Martin, my triathlon coach.I wanted to recreate that presentation for you. This talk is specifically related to being your best self, pushing yourself, challenging yourself, crushing your goals and setting those intention.If that's what you need today, that's what this episode is all about.Listen to the podcast or you can read the full transcript below. Imagine a room full of slightly sweaty, smelly Ultimate Frisbee players who've just spent the entire day playing, training, drilling, strategizing and trying to be their best selves so that they will make the team to be at Worlds next year representing New Zealand at the World Championships of Ultimate Frisbee.They've had a big day. It's been raining. It's been wet. They are a little bit cold. They've just eaten. And I'm the final person to speak to them at the end of the day and it was such an honor.It's always a little weird to be speaking in front of some people you know especially when you probably realize that most those people don't know about you because if you've played a sport before you get on really well with your teammates but typically you're talking about the sport and of course you get into personal lives and things but often you're so focused on the competition and the team, the drills, the strategy and the game plans that you don't always get to learn about who each person is and what else is going on in their life. So I think this was quite a surprising evening for some people.I will share the pictures that go along in my slides. I'm a big fan when I speak and present of having lots of visuals and very few words. All of it was 16 slides and most of those had very few words on them and images.I called it "Find Your Next Finish Line - Tap into your potential Master your mindset."So who the heck am I? Well, I am Natalie Sisson. Originally born here in Wellington, New Zealand and for about the last ten years I've been running an online business teaching other people how to travel the world and run an online business. I've been to 70 countries during that time and lived out of my suitcase for six and a half years full time which is fantastic, if you're into that kind of thing.And during that time I actually got to play a lot of international Ultimate Frisbee tournaments especially beach tournaments which I love. If you're ever going to travel and spend some time overseas I highly recommend checking out the international scene for Ultimate Frisbee tournaments. It's also the quickest way to make fast friends because you basically arrive in a strange country you've never been to before and you have this instant community of like-minded people who adopt you as one of their own. So I highly recommend it.I have been playing ultimate Frisbee for 16 years now.Is anybody here in the room 16 or under?I did ask that question because I was a little bit worried that somebody might be younger than the amount of years that I've spent playing Frisbee.Luckily nobody was.The next slide was my two books: The Freedom Plan and the Suitcase Entrepreneur.So I basically put those up and I said, "So I've written two books but I'm posting them here really more to tell you that they are probably the only two business / lifestyle and mindset books out there that talk about Ultimate Frisbee" and that mentioned Ultimate Frisbee for a start and also talk about it in a really positive way. So I just thought I'd put that out there.The next slide was a track and it was the finish line there and it said on it "7 lessons I've learned from finding my next finish line".Speakers note: One of the best ways to build credibility is to obviously show what you've done and achieved but that can also come across as a little bit wanky if all you do is go "I've done this and that". I had visuals of all of my sporting or individual pursuits and achievements but with every single one of those there was a story and from each of those stories there was a lesson.Once again I'm just going to roll straight into how I sort of presented.1. Sacrifice and visualization countsIn 2004, I had actually just hired a personal trainer to help me with training for triathlons and she was so amazing in terms of how she looked. She was strong. She was lean. She was muscular and I just never seen a physique like it and I asked her what she was training for and she said I was training for a body sculpting championship. And I was like, "What the heck is that?".I went and looked up the sport and I thought, "What a bizarre sport". You basically get really lean. You put on a lot of muscle. You eat chicken and broccoli. It's pretty much what I ate. And then you stand up on stage with this ridiculous bronze tan on you at the end of that and strike some poses.There was something about it that really just intrigued me because in all my years of playing sport I had never ever changed my body shape. I'd always pretty much look the same. And I was so impressed and fascinated by this lady that I was like, what would it take to change my body and do something completely different?And then I asked her how she went and she said well she couldn't give up sugar so she ended up just not competing. She clearly hadn't wanted to sacrifice sugar and so all her hard work and dedication had gone nowhere as a result.I just thought that was really sad to put in all that effort and not take it further. Plus for me it was a nine month period of eating really clean and healthy, going to the gym seven times a week, working out really hard but also being very mindful of my nutrition and partway through that I started visualizing.I started of visualizing being up on stage, on doing these routines onstage, on winning to be honest. I had actually written down on a piece of paper that I used to take to the gym every single morning. It was actually in a little booklet. It was my workout routine, the weights and what amount of weights I had and what exercise and I used to in a very disciplined way fill that out every single time, seven times a week, sometimes twice a day. And at the top of that piece of paper in this booklet I had written, countdown to comp win.Basically somewhere in my head, I decided that I was going to win the competition. And so I wrote it on that piece of paper and that's the same piece of paper I looked at seven days in a row for close to nine months.Strike forward to basically October of 2004 and I'm standing on the stage in Hamilton at the regional Body Sculpting Championships. I'm in figure. I'm in the novice figure tool division. So basically Body Sculpting is also called figure because you're not buff. You're actually quite lean and feminine. But I did have an eight pack and an awesome arse. My muscles on my arse was so amazing and lean that's never going to be like that again but it was pretty impressive looking back at the photos.Anyway I digress.I'm standing on stage in these sexy heels that I actually had to buy at like a stripper shop (That got a laugh in the audience). I've got way too much bronze, fake tan on and I hadn't tanned my face enough. I'm on a tiny little blue bikini and I'm posing and showing off my abs and my biceps and my triceps and my lats.At one point during the competition they basically started calling out names of people that were going to make it into the judging round and I realized in that very moment that I had not prepared to not win. So all I thought about in the back of my mind and also in the front of my mind was visualizing winning. And here I was on the stage and they were calling out who they were going to take forward and I was like, "Oh my God, I haven't prepared to not win".How am I going to deal with this if I don't make it?It just hadn't even crossed my mind and it wasn't coming from a place of ego that I was definitely not going to win but that's what I'd focused on that's what got me to this point. And so luckily I won the whole thing which was awesome. I won my division. They called my name. I got a tacky big trophy and some more protein powder and I was thrilled and the very next day I was eating like mellow puffs and all the things you shouldn't. And basically my eight pack disappeared overnight but it was such a brilliant lesson for me to learn that you need to sacrifice some things to get to where you want to be.I sacrificed a lot of social events, a lot of socializing with my friends. I sacrificed a lot of late nights for early starts, a lot of the time in the gym. I was super disciplined during that time because it was a nine month period where I really wanted to be my best and see what I could achieve. Then I achieved the win which was amazing.The other I learnt was that visualization is one of the most powerful tools ever. And while I was presenting for the ultimate Frisbee crowd I did talk about a study with soccer players and they'd had half of the team train as normal that they would for a competition that was coming up and they had the other half just purely visualize. Visualize training, visualize being on the field, striking the ball, running around, doing everything perfectly.When it came down to the actual competition, both sides of the team turned up pretty much exactly the same. So those who had done nothing but visualise were performing as well as those who had been training and putting in the effort.2. Set and smash your own records. For this slide, I had the Sisterhood Dragon Boating across the English Channel and then I talked about what this event was and what I learnt from it. So this was 2007 around August when 20 of us ladies set out from Shakespeare's beach in England. We went 21 miles across the busiest shipping lane in the world and landed in Shakespeare's beach in France.It was epic. We absolutely smashed the time. We did it in 3 hours and 42 minutes and the previous record had been set at around seven hours.It was incredible we fell out of the boat when we got to France. We drank champagne. We were super excited and I was the person in charge of making this a Guinness Book of World Records attempt. We had a timer and we had people photographing it and videoing it and we had all the rules and regulations and we stuck to them and then we found out about a week after that we weren't awarded the Guinness World Record for this. Even though we had smashed it and I found out that we should have had a dragon head and tail and somebody beating a drum on the dragon boat while we were crossing because that's how you apparently hang out in dragon boats.If you've never dragon boated before you'll know that typically you race thousand meter races in these boats. They are very, very low to the water. You have a paddle. You start from high up and then you'd plunge that paddle down to the water and pull back and a short sharp stroke and the whole team has to be in synchronicity to make it go forward and go at pace. So we did this for 3 hours and 42 minutes not for a thousand meter race.If we'd had a head and tail and a drummer, we would have pretty much drowned. Were going across the busiest channel with waves and everything. So that was super disappointing. But the lesson that we learned out of that as we still smash that world record.We can still claim that and internally, personally and as a team. We were immensely proud with what we did. So we didn't actually need the official record to be proud of ourselves and to really congratulate and celebrate ourselves on that accomplishment. And we raised over a hundred thousand pounds for charity so that one was set and smash your own records.3. Team is everything. For this I had a photo up of my Great Britain gold medal winning Ultimate Frisbee team at the beach championships in Brazil from 2007. So the same year that I did the Dragon Boating couple of months later I found myself in Brazil where we had been training in addition to my training for the Dragon Boating for the world beach championships.We were the British women's team and we managed to beat the US in the finals and up until that point the US women's team had won every single tournament at beach pretty much leading up to that. And so this was the first time ever that Great Britain had won and it was such a huge achievement.And the reason why we won I believe was that we're a total team. We trusted each other, we respected each other, every single person on that team through to every single other person, even the weaker players versus the stronger. Nobody had ego. Nobody was putting themselves on the field all the time. We played the whole team. We trusted the whole team and as a result we won as a team not as a bunch of individual superstars.So the reason I want to point that out is that there were probably a lot of people in that room who were individual superstars and that that only gets you so far and if you're gonna play at Worlds you absolutely need to have a team moving in the right direction and winning together.4. You always have 60 percent more. I have often been told that you know you've always got 20 percent more in the tank or even up to 40 percent. But I recently listened to, I have to say a fantastic book by David Goggins who's an ex Navy Seal and has done all these 100k plus, 100 mile plus ultra marathons. I listened to his book which is called, "Can't hurt me", a New York Times bestseller while I was out training for my triathlons and it was inspiring because, sure he's slightly crazy but he has gone to the depths and beyond and back to really master his mindset and to realize that your mind controls everything and that you need to control your mind in order to do the unachievable, to achieve the impossible, to push yourself further than you've ever pushed yourself before and to grow as a person, as a result of that and be the best version of yourself to completely unleash your potential.In his book he says you always have 60 percent more and he talks a lot about some of the sporting events that he's done including running a 100 mile race with no training and making it to the finish. it is grueling and it is epic and he draws on every single ounce of his reserve and his stamina and his perseverance and his Navy SEAL training etc.. But what ultimately gets him there is finding this new lease of life somewhere within his mind that he is capable of doing this and that only he can do it and that it is possible.I then talked about when I cycled down Africa from Nairobi to Cape Town six and a half thousand k's never cycled anywhere near that in my life. Every day it was pretty much 100K's of cycling. And basically some days I'd get out of my sleeping bag and my tent and I was just like, "I just don't know if I can get on that bike today. I don't think I have anything left".I got known as Flatley because I had so many flat tires and there were just days where I was like I just I can't do this but I would like everybody else somehow. Well not everybody. Some people didn't but get myself dressed and get into my gear and get back on that bike and just push each pedal until I was moving and somehow or other, the body and the mind merged and was off cycling every single day without fail.Whether it was for three hours or eight or nine hours, I would always make it to the end. Even on the super long days we were doing like 180K and it just blew my mind that we always have more gas in the tank.We are always, always capable of more and you just have to dig deep to get those reserves and when you think you can't, you absolutely can. You're not even anywhere near your capacity for achieving for doing and for pushing yourself.Just remember that you always have 60 percent more and when you're going to be at those events or those races or whatever you're doing in life right now that you feel like you want to give up know that you have barely scratched the surface. I think it's inspiring and it's going to serve me well in my triathlons coming up.5. You can always improve. The photo that I used here was at the 2016 World Championships where I played with the New Zealand Women's Masters team. We came fifth. It was epic. And during that tournament, I realized even though I was a master and I was getting older, I was 39 then. I was like man I still want to improve. I've still got so much more potential.Sure, I might not be the fastest person at all ever and sure I'm probably not going to be as fit and I'm not as young as some of these people because Masters is basically 30 and over so our team was actually quite old on average but I still wanted to improve and I found different strengths that I now had as an older player like as a thrower, a handler, I had different wily strengths and skills that I could use to my advantage, to overpower the ones that were more of my weakness now and it just you know, I just loved the game so much and I was like there's more than I can give.There is more than I can do and you should never think that you're top of your game. You should never just assume that you're the best that you'll ever be. There's always more room and ability to improve.I also got everybody in the room laughing on this one because the photo was me with my back to the camera throwing and one of my team members looking like she was about to be hit by my disc and literally cowering because I have quite a big throw with my left hand and also on the back of my T-shirt is my number.And so I had to sort of share because the number is 69 which obviously has connotations and I just wanted to share with the room that the reason I chose that number is one, no woman will ever take it because of the connotations so I always get the number that I want in a tournament and a team.And you'll be surprised lots of people like the same numbers and you can't get hold of them. So nobody ever wants 69 and 2 it meant that if I was ever upside down or laying out or whatever that you could always tell what my number was. But I think the phrasing that I used was that if I'm ever up the wrong way or round the wrong side or something like that and it just sounded all wrong so that got everybody laughing.6. Spirit trumps all. This was a photo of our team once again 2016 World Champs. We became fifth but we also won the spirit prize. We co-won actually which is a first with Germany and this is at the heart of Ultimate Frisbee.If you've never played the sport before or never heard of it, the entire game has no referees and it is basically you self referee. So each person on the field makes a decision based on the rules. You discuss things. You discuss calls. You call fouls and you can retract them or keep them. It's an incredible game where basically you adopt the attitude of fair play at all times and you discuss and talk through anything and everybody is responsible for playing fairly and to the rules on the field. Once again no referees, no whistles, no umpires.It's amazing and a huge part of their ethos and philosophy behind Ultimate Frisbee and why I adore it is that it's about the spirit of the game. So it is deemed to be spirited if you help somebody understand the rules on the field. It is deemed to be spirited if you make a call and you explain it why you made the call and you discuss it and then you either go ahead with it or you retract it. It has deemed to be spirited to clap and cheer for the other team and to celebrate a great play or a great throw or an amazing bid or a layout or defense and it's just this beautiful thing that comes through in the game.At times over the years I've seen it lost especially when it's super competitive. Some people just get downright competitive, nasty, rude, aggressive etc. But most of the time spirit win through.To win the prize for being the most spirited team was a real honor and more important than winning. And so I was really just trying to get that across because especially in the younger players sometimes it's all about winning and it's not. It's really not.It's about your internal spirit, what you bring to the game and also the spirit of the game. And I think that applies in life not just Ultimate Frisbee.7. Mindset is everything. (Well, 90 percent.). In this example, I had a photo of me finishing at the national sprint triathlons in Kinlock which was in February this year in New Zealand by the lake. And I've got my hands outstretched in the air and I'm joyous that I finished this race. And it was a really tough race and I got my ass kicked and I got my ego bruised because I had started training in October of the year before.So this was October, November, December, January and it was into early Feb so I'd done about four months of training and I really thought I was going to do pretty well. Like I didn't have any grandiose ideas I was going to win but I thought I could be pretty good at this sport because I've been good at other sports and won medals and done all these things and yet I came probably quarter to last in my race and division and age group and I was just pretty disappointed in that and I thought it sucked and I was like I'm not very good at this at all and I ended up speaking to a bunch of people after the race who had been doing triathlons for like two years, five years, ten years.One woman was 77 and she just won her age group and she was off to the World Champs and it was amazing. And she's like I just love the sport. But it took me so long to get good at it and it's every single year it's just a small improvement at the time and every single person that I spoke to had the same energy. They were like you can't just get good at triathlon quickly. There are very few people who are naturally good at it. It's one of those things you just keep at it and you make improvements and you make these just continual upgrades to your training, to your nutrition, to your attitude. And it will come.And I remember being there and just feeling a little bit like deflated and Josh was like, "Nat, your goal was to finish and your goal was to get the certain time and you hit that and yet you're not happy," and I was like, "No, because I came like in the bottom quarter of the whole field which means I suck", and he's like, "No, you have to set your intentions way too high. You've only been training for four months. This was the Nationals. This wasn't just some local event. This was the best of the best people turning up who were trying to qualify for World Champs and you made it and you did well and you completed it and you should be happy with that. And this is the first of many events".I'm glad Josh gave me a pep talk in that moment and I walked away from that and I went, "Yeah, triathlon is going to be all about the long game. It's going to be all about the micro improvements day after day, week after week".It's about showing up, committing to consistent training and training with intention and just continuing to get better. And always, always enjoying it and I'm pleased to say that since that race it was in February I moved up to sort of halfway through the field in events that I did and more recently I ran a 10K race in Wellington which is a huge race actually, thousands of people competing in it. And I was in the top third of the entire race group, of my gender, of my age group. And as I said overall and I was just thrilled because that proved to me that I had made massive strides in my running over the sort of four month period and the discipline of running that I have always found to be my weakest as what I have often told myself unless I'm running after a Frisbee or a ball and so it was just really thrilling to see that OK I put my head down. I trained better. I believed in myself. I called myself a runner. I called myself an athlete and I trained with more focus and moved up from quarter to the bottom to top third.I'm really thrilled with that and there's long, long way to go but it just proved to me that once I reset my mindset about how I was going to turn up and once I reframed, once I focused on being my best self and being an athlete and really focusing on that mindset, everything changed.Everything changed and so my lesson there was that you know it's all about mind over matter and you have to have self belief and then you have to put in the work to make it happen.Then I touched on to finish off, goals versus intention.So I asked the room what is the difference between goals versus intentions? And it was interesting because you know in a big room most people don't answer questions but luckily some brave people put up their hand and there were some of them are a little bit on track but this is actually a really interesting question and I have an entire podcast about this so I will get the number for you. But basically goals are focused on the future. They're about a destination or a specific achievement and goals are fantastic.If I didn't have goals, if I knew that I wasn't competing in my first ever half Iron Man in December I probably would not be getting up to train and do long runs and long bike rides and swims pretty much right now I'm starting to train every single day of the week and will be for the next four months. And it's only going to get longer and harder. But if I didn't have that goal in December that I want to be fit and ready for and I want to do really well and for myself and I want to enjoy it, I probably wouldn't be getting up in the morning.Goals have an absolute benefit. They drive you. They give you a focus. They give you a deadline, a timeline. They give you something that you can aim for and achieve and they give you purpose. And so they're brilliant and they're about a future event. And so you can set up your strategies for it. You can train. You can really know what you're going for and then intentions are in the present moment.Intentions are lived each day independent of reaching the goal or destination. And why I think this is so important to know the difference between goals. So just to recap goals are focused on the future. They're about a destination or a specific achievement. Intentions are in the present moment. Intentions are lived each day independent of reaching the goal or destination is that you have probably felt this before when you've set yourself a big juicy goal and then let's say maybe you've had it or you've missed it but after that even sometimes when you've achieved it or smashed it you kind of have the sense of disappointment after. You just often actually can have that sense of deflation and lie oh what was that all for over.My major lesson there is that you also have to have an intention of how you're going to show up every single day. It's not just about that one goal. Your intention should be or I hope is to be the best version of yourself. To live with passion, to be on purpose, to be kind, to be generous, to be driven, to be ambitious. Whatever your intention is. How you want to show up in this world is the absolute thing that you need to put all your energy and effort into. It's what you're going to focus on every single day. It's how you're going to show up. It's how you are going to live and breathe and act with that intent.When you have intentions that are backed up by these goals and milestones you're not going to get depressed or disappointed or upset after something because that goal will be all and end all of how you live. It's just the next driver. It's the next point that you're trying to reach but because your intentions are constantly with you those are the things that are always going to carry you through.I think goals and intentions are needed but intentions are the thing that is going to be how you act and show up in this world and they're going to be with you long after you've hit and smashed all your goals that I know you're going to do.Now it's your turn. This is what I challenged them with and this is what I'm challenging you with.Within the next 30 days what is one goal and one intention you want to set for yourself?You can share it with me in two ways, you can tag me in Instagram @nataliesisson and you can say that “@nataliesisson my one goal is X and my one intention is X #untapped” or leave a comment below.I am going to give a copy of my brand new Freedom Plan audio book to one lucky person who comments in either of those ways.In this episode you’ll learn:Most powerful tools everImportance of celebrating yourselfLearn how to control your mindGoals versus intentions See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

What's up everyone and welcome to an extremely delayed episode of The HelloGhostly Games Podcast. So I've got some explaining to do, haven't I? Well, I have some amazing excuses lined up for you. Well, less excuse and more valid reasons. So I haven't posted a new episode in a few weeks due to a massive sickness attack. I recorded all the E3 shows like I mentioned I would but then came down like a ton of bricks. Then when I finally started to recover, I get a nasty case of food poisoning. I'm still not fully recovered from that one. Anyway, let's get into the show! today is a significantly shorter episode than normal because there wasn't a lot to talk about but we do discuss some gaming news but the only thing I can remember now as I'm typing this is Stranger Things 3: The Game but I also talk a little Crash Team Racing. I do however break down all the upcoming game releases for July 2019, so that's something.

Welcome to my Podcast! Primarily, my podcast will be focussing on gun and gear reviews along with the the odd 'shop' or online store review! As the weather becomes warmer, I may do a few moto-vlogs, but I honestly haven't figured out how to get semi-decent sounds from my helmet mounted mic yet!   Who am I? Well, having been raised in the UK, I have lived in the USA for just over 20 years now! I do enjoy living and working over here and, (because of the consistent weather where I am) I get more opportunities to pursue my secondary hobby - motorcycling!   What Next? Since coming to the USA, I've become even more interested in firearms and have specifically taken part in different types of competitions; while I don't compete anymore, I do try to take classes on a fairly regular basis and I'm always interested in finding ways to enhance my carry-experience! As this Podcast is new, I'll be initially transitioning from my YouTube channel to here - with there being some 'parallel' content for some time - depending on the situation with YouTube and Pro-2A Channels. Please be sure to leave me comments and subscribe to my Podcast. I will always answer any constructive/civilised comment and do welcome advice on anything I post!   Thanks for taking an interest! Stay Safe!

Are you avoiding breakdowns in your life? You might be saying "Of course I do, why wouldn't I?" Well, buckle up because in today's episode I'm letting you know that if you're living a life of avoiding breakdowns (not being your authentic self, not speaking your truth, not sharing boldly, not asking for what you want, not stepping into the ring), then you cannot expect to experience massive breakthroughs that lead to transformations. They just won't happen.

We’ve had a lot of high profile folks on the show lately that represent the “bitcoin maximalist” crowd. In other words, they believe that bitcoin is the only worthwhile blockchain and that every other project/token out there is a “shitcoin”. There is all sorts of terminology for this—the bitcoiner, the multicoiner, the nocoiner, and then there is the full spectrum in between. What am I? Well, it’s funny because a couple of years ago I would have been one of those people who said, “blockchain not bitcoin”. Why?…Because I didn’t understand bitcoin as well as I do now. “Blockchain not bitcoin” really means “I have no clue what I’m talking about but I will give you my opinion anyway.” On the other hand, I’ve come to realize that there is, indeed, and overabundance of needless projects and tokens. So, I would call myself more of a bitcoin maximalist in the long term. However, in the next couple years I actually believe people stand to make a lot more money with the right alt coin than with bitcoin itself. One of my favorite projects is Worldwide Asset Exchange (WAX). WAX is trading at 3.5 cents right now. WAX will get to 35 cents way before bitcoin does its 10X in my opinion. In fact, when bitcoin has its next 10X bull run, I believe WAX will be up closer to 100X. On the other hand, bitcoin is more likely to be around in 10 years than WAX. Anyway, I think you get my point. The reality is that there are some really good projects out there that are already using blockchain that are making things more efficient. Peer to peer energy is one of the interesting use cases that I have spoken about on a few occasions. So, as we pick our alts to HODL for the next bull run, we will start exploring some useful blockchain use cases and quality projects. One of the areas in which blockchain appears to be emerging as a very useful technology is peer to peer energy production and consumption. The clear leader in this area is a Project Called Power Ledger who’s cofounder is our guest on Consensus Network this week.

Where Kitsuki Akira finnally investigates, Yogo Sojobo fills out paperwork, and Kuni Garou gambles.   Splinters of Jade is a Legend of the Five Rings actual play podcast exploring the spiritual aspect of the Emerald Empire. Releases every other Tuesday. Next episode will be on January 29th 2019.   Splinters of Jade is holding a contest. How do you enter you ask? Well it is simple, write us a 5 star review on ITunes and send us an email at sojpodrpg@gmail.com letting us know you gave us a review by March 12th, when our sixth episode releases. I, kuroko, will randomly choose a winner from these entrants and that person will get to voice a Yokai, kami, or onna in a future episode.     [iTunes](https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/splinters-of-jade/id1438476329?mt=2)     [Google Play](https://play.google.com/music/m/I7ecqvjcyskqxfff3zyz25t5ici?t=Splinters_of_Jade)     [Patreon](https://www.patreon.com/sojpodrpg)   Twitter @sojpodrpg   facebook https://www.facebook.com/sojpodrpg/     Please leave a comment, review, or rating.   Splinters of Jade is not affiliated with FFG, or AEG. I got scolded for separating fly and dragon in the word dragonfly last episode. I can't help what my mind is doing half asleep at midnight New Years Eve can I? Well this one's fixed and is now the Dragonfly Mysteries. /s

Dayton, Ohio   Dennis and Matt from Senior Taekwonod talk about the origin of the Senior Taekwondo project and Facebook group.   Transcript: Welcome to the podcast, it's Matt and Dennis from Senior TaeKwonDo.Hey.This week we're talking about how we got started, and what Senior TaeKwonDo is. We're circling back and talking about our origin story because a lot of you have been asking.Yeah, what happened with me was when I joined the Asian Arts Center I was 49 years old, and I did TaeKwonDo for 18 years, and then I retired from my job, and I moved away. So, my school is here in Ohio, I moved to North Carolina. You know, I was not really interested in finding a new school, but I did want to continue my training.So, certainly, I can train on my own, but part of the idea for the community, in this case, was establishing a way that we could keep in touch, that we could communicate with each other, not only by voice or by email, but also by video in real time. We could train together still. We could examine each other's forms and that sort of thing.But it also, in the process, began to educate us into a new way of practicing martial arts, which is by community, and the community via the internet, and via the digital world. So that's kind of how the idea of our community evolved.And I just wanted to add that for me, as Dennis was retiring working from here, it was a way for me to keep that relationship that we had, which was one of mentorship, where I learned so much from Dennis in a professional way, in the way of how to work with people, and how to manage people, and how to talk to people. And so, that was really important to me, but I also wanted to have that relationship for the other adult students that we had at the time, and then that I knew would come over time.The coolest thing is now that we have this virtual dojo, this online community, it really has become about how we support each other. We're all doing the same thing. I think I say honestly, and I know I'm not a ... that Dennis is a little bit older than me, but I don't feel that much older than I did 20 years ago. I-Yeah.Yeah, I mean, and I think that the idea of getting older that I saw growing up, in that people slowed down, and their body was kind of used up, and they didn't do a lot of the things that we're doing. And I feel like healthcare is better, we move in smarter ways, exercise science is so much better. The way we train is smarter.As we age, physically age, I think we're getting younger in certain ways because we're learning so many new things with the internet, and so much new information at our fingertips. I'm learning so much, I'm eating better, paying more attention to the proper nutrients and the things that I need as I age and continue to do specific types of exercises.And I think that's also one of the things that we want to do with Senior TaeKwonDo is share those things. What are the things that I'm doing that can help somebody else? What are the things that you're doing that can help me? Because we're ... and we're all learning from each other this way. To me, that's one of the coolest things that we've seen develop.But this idea that ... you know, I just don't feel that much older, and I don't know how you feel about it.Well, you know, I think that, first of all, the whole idea of community. And I think age ... I've discovered that ... I used to think age was a state of mind, but I was corrected on that by a gentleman who is much older than me who said, “No, no, it's not a state of mind, it is a way of thinking.”Because as you get older I think it's inevitable that you have more aches and pains. I mean, that's what happens. It's entropy, you know. But the whole idea of the community is that you can not only continue to bring along people who are in the same age category, the same physical health category, the same capabilities that you have, you can bring them along, but you can also tap into the people who are, let's say, younger than you in years.It brings vital thinking into the mix, it brings perspective into the mix, and it brings wisdom into the mix. And it can come from either end of the spectrum, but the idea, again, of community, is that you are able to maintain contact, and you are able to continue to grow in that knowledge.And some of it is the physical. And I think it's helpful ... I know it's helpful to me to have models that I can watch, and models that I can listen to, and models who are as old as I am in years, because I think we have a unique perspective that you can't get unless you live the years and pay your dues. So that's part of it.But there's a lot of energy in people who are a little younger. There's a lot of encouragement in people who are a little younger. And I enjoy going to, let's say, kickboxing class, where everybody in there is younger than me. And they kind of ... you know, they understand why I'm there. They enjoy having me there. I bring something extra to the class. We are a community now.And so, this whole idea of community, I think, is really a central to the whole Senior TaeKwonDo concept.You know, one thing that I'll throw in on that is, because you mentioned it when you talk about other people in the group who can do this, and they might be the same age or a little bit older, and I like the idea ... I've always lived by this idea that if somebody else can do it, and they look even remotely a little bit like me, I can do it. Even if they don't look anything like me, somebody else can do it, then I can do it.I think that's so powerful, because we see it now in this new digital age, in video, and in pictures. And so, it's not just hearing about somebody who might be able to do something, and can I do that? But when you actually see, with your own eyes, you watch somebody doing something and you realize they're the same age, and they could even be 20, 30 years older, but because they have the right thinking, which is what you said, the right thinking allows them to go for it, allows them to learn, and grow, and try. And if they can try, I can try. To me, that's very powerful.Right, and I think the gateway ... You know, there's a lot of different possible gateways into this continual growth, and this continual expansion of consciousness, and wisdom, and this expanding curiosity. There's a lot of gateways into that, martial arts being one of them.And I think it's helpful for us to make sure that people understand that by having martial arts as our gateway, it doesn't necessarily restrict people to what some of the preconceived notions about martial arts are. Martial arts can be adapted to a number of situations in terms of age, in terms of social circumstances, in terms of physical location, in terms of physical capabilities.There's such a vast possibility there that I think that the idea of martial arts community is a melding of those, too. We don't want people to not consider becoming part of the community because they're afraid of martial arts, or they have some preconceived notion about martial arts that we can dispel with some exposure to the people who are in, and part of, our community.Yeah, and even to the extent that they don't even have to ever do martial arts, which is to say that you might be attracted to the idea of not slowing down, not having to take no for an answer, not having to limit yourself as you mature and learn new ... You can still learn new things, your body can still improve, you can still learn to eat better, you can sleep better, you can move better, you can get better balance, better mobility at every age.And I think that you don't have to necessarily do martial arts to find value in what we're talking about. Now, that might not happen wholesale, it might not be a big group of people. But I know for a fact that there are some people who I know won't do martial arts, and aren't doing martial arts, or have ever done martial arts, but are part of the group, and are watching what we're doing because they find that the message is so powerful in their own life.They don't have and interest in martial art, but they have something else that they want to try, that they want to do, and so our example says yes, go for it, try it, do it. You can do anything as long as you find good coaching, and a good support group, and you don't allow yourself to be limited by anybody else's opinion, because that's a big part of it, what will other people think? Or what are my preconceived notions about something. And I think that that's really important, too.Right, so I will amend my earlier observation. Even though I-Well, you don't have to amend anything.Well, even though I-That's why there are two of us.I know. Even though I was reminded that age is not a state of mind, I would say that martial arts is a state of mind. And that is the state of mind that we're talking about, and that is amenable to, as I mentioned previously, all physical capabilities, mental capabilities, economic capabilities. There's always a way that you can practice the message, and you can grow through martial arts.And we're kind of redefining the whole term martial arts, I think. We're in the process of that right now. We're-Yeah, it's not just for children.It's not just for anybody.It never was for children, originally. This is what's so funny is that I-So get out of here children, get!No, they get ... there's so much value in the martial arts, but what a lot of the kids are doing now is not martial arts. A lot of the things that I see in the schools, game playing, a lot of positive reinforcement, that's all good. Focus, discipline, and the things that we teach, that's all important, it's all good.But blocking, punching, kicking, get in and out of the way, defending yourself, learning how to fight, learning how to move, that's not necessarily what kids are learning in all schools. Now, a lot of schools do still teach that, but it is much, much more challenging, from a physical perspective, to teach kids the values of martial arts, the things that we're doing.And then society, especially here in the West, has changed so much, and there's so much fear and misunderstanding about what we do, and we've become less and less physical overall. When I started, classes were five ... you went to class five or six days a week, and it was a couple hours at a time, and there was a lot of physical contact, and there was very little room for not paying attention and no focus. But all the students were older, or in my case, looked older and were bigger. Yeah.Now, I have ... I just taught a class, just got out of there, and I had three three-year-old kids in there. Now, I am not teaching, and I'll be the first to say this, I'm not teaching them martial arts in the respect that it was taught to me as a kid.Yes, they're paying attention, and I'm better at it, I think, than almost anybody. I can get them to pay attention, and I can help them understand how to do that at school. These are all great byproducts. We talk about putting your hands up, saying, “Stop,” use your words, get out of the way. We even talk about blocking and all these other things.But to be ... It's just not the same. It's not martial arts in many respects. Now, I'm not going to debate, here, the value of it.And for our purposes, they're not really ready for our community. They will certainly benefit from our community.They have their own.They have their own community, which ...And they're going to grow up like this, with all this stuff, and ...Well, yeah, anyway ...Yeah.You know ...They're taken care of, this is for us. This is for-Right.Yeah, this is for you when you need to have a community, you need like minded people, you need to see examples of other people doing the things that you know, in the back of your head, you can do it, you know in your heart you want to. We're giving you permission. This is-Well, our-Yeah, this is us giving you permission.And our mission, to a large degree, is to teach by example, but teaching by example is hundreds of times more effective than telling people what to do, what not to do, don't do this, do that. If you teach an example that they can see that you are acting and living the way that you are describing life to be, then I think that is so much more effective.

Dayton, Ohio   Dennis and Matt from Senior Taekwonod talk about the origin of the Senior Taekwondo project and Facebook group.   Transcript: Welcome to the podcast, it's Matt and Dennis from Senior TaeKwonDo.Hey.This week we're talking about how we got started, and what Senior TaeKwonDo is. We're circling back and talking about our origin story because a lot of you have been asking.Yeah, what happened with me was when I joined the Asian Arts Center I was 49 years old, and I did TaeKwonDo for 18 years, and then I retired from my job, and I moved away. So, my school is here in Ohio, I moved to North Carolina. You know, I was not really interested in finding a new school, but I did want to continue my training.So, certainly, I can train on my own, but part of the idea for the community, in this case, was establishing a way that we could keep in touch, that we could communicate with each other, not only by voice or by email, but also by video in real time. We could train together still. We could examine each other's forms and that sort of thing.But it also, in the process, began to educate us into a new way of practicing martial arts, which is by community, and the community via the internet, and via the digital world. So that's kind of how the idea of our community evolved.And I just wanted to add that for me, as Dennis was retiring working from here, it was a way for me to keep that relationship that we had, which was one of mentorship, where I learned so much from Dennis in a professional way, in the way of how to work with people, and how to manage people, and how to talk to people. And so, that was really important to me, but I also wanted to have that relationship for the other adult students that we had at the time, and then that I knew would come over time.The coolest thing is now that we have this virtual dojo, this online community, it really has become about how we support each other. We're all doing the same thing. I think I say honestly, and I know I'm not a ... that Dennis is a little bit older than me, but I don't feel that much older than I did 20 years ago. I-Yeah.Yeah, I mean, and I think that the idea of getting older that I saw growing up, in that people slowed down, and their body was kind of used up, and they didn't do a lot of the things that we're doing. And I feel like healthcare is better, we move in smarter ways, exercise science is so much better. The way we train is smarter.As we age, physically age, I think we're getting younger in certain ways because we're learning so many new things with the internet, and so much new information at our fingertips. I'm learning so much, I'm eating better, paying more attention to the proper nutrients and the things that I need as I age and continue to do specific types of exercises.And I think that's also one of the things that we want to do with Senior TaeKwonDo is share those things. What are the things that I'm doing that can help somebody else? What are the things that you're doing that can help me? Because we're ... and we're all learning from each other this way. To me, that's one of the coolest things that we've seen develop.But this idea that ... you know, I just don't feel that much older, and I don't know how you feel about it.Well, you know, I think that, first of all, the whole idea of community. And I think age ... I've discovered that ... I used to think age was a state of mind, but I was corrected on that by a gentleman who is much older than me who said, “No, no, it's not a state of mind, it is a way of thinking.”Because as you get older I think it's inevitable that you have more aches and pains. I mean, that's what happens. It's entropy, you know. But the whole idea of the community is that you can not only continue to bring along people who are in the same age category, the same physical health category, the same capabilities that you have, you can bring them along, but you can also tap into the people who are, let's say, younger than you in years.It brings vital thinking into the mix, it brings perspective into the mix, and it brings wisdom into the mix. And it can come from either end of the spectrum, but the idea, again, of community, is that you are able to maintain contact, and you are able to continue to grow in that knowledge.And some of it is the physical. And I think it's helpful ... I know it's helpful to me to have models that I can watch, and models that I can listen to, and models who are as old as I am in years, because I think we have a unique perspective that you can't get unless you live the years and pay your dues. So that's part of it.But there's a lot of energy in people who are a little younger. There's a lot of encouragement in people who are a little younger. And I enjoy going to, let's say, kickboxing class, where everybody in there is younger than me. And they kind of ... you know, they understand why I'm there. They enjoy having me there. I bring something extra to the class. We are a community now.And so, this whole idea of community, I think, is really a central to the whole Senior TaeKwonDo concept.You know, one thing that I'll throw in on that is, because you mentioned it when you talk about other people in the group who can do this, and they might be the same age or a little bit older, and I like the idea ... I've always lived by this idea that if somebody else can do it, and they look even remotely a little bit like me, I can do it. Even if they don't look anything like me, somebody else can do it, then I can do it.I think that's so powerful, because we see it now in this new digital age, in video, and in pictures. And so, it's not just hearing about somebody who might be able to do something, and can I do that? But when you actually see, with your own eyes, you watch somebody doing something and you realize they're the same age, and they could even be 20, 30 years older, but because they have the right thinking, which is what you said, the right thinking allows them to go for it, allows them to learn, and grow, and try. And if they can try, I can try. To me, that's very powerful.Right, and I think the gateway ... You know, there's a lot of different possible gateways into this continual growth, and this continual expansion of consciousness, and wisdom, and this expanding curiosity. There's a lot of gateways into that, martial arts being one of them.And I think it's helpful for us to make sure that people understand that by having martial arts as our gateway, it doesn't necessarily restrict people to what some of the preconceived notions about martial arts are. Martial arts can be adapted to a number of situations in terms of age, in terms of social circumstances, in terms of physical location, in terms of physical capabilities.There's such a vast possibility there that I think that the idea of martial arts community is a melding of those, too. We don't want people to not consider becoming part of the community because they're afraid of martial arts, or they have some preconceived notion about martial arts that we can dispel with some exposure to the people who are in, and part of, our community.Yeah, and even to the extent that they don't even have to ever do martial arts, which is to say that you might be attracted to the idea of not slowing down, not having to take no for an answer, not having to limit yourself as you mature and learn new ... You can still learn new things, your body can still improve, you can still learn to eat better, you can sleep better, you can move better, you can get better balance, better mobility at every age.And I think that you don't have to necessarily do martial arts to find value in what we're talking about. Now, that might not happen wholesale, it might not be a big group of people. But I know for a fact that there are some people who I know won't do martial arts, and aren't doing martial arts, or have ever done martial arts, but are part of the group, and are watching what we're doing because they find that the message is so powerful in their own life.They don't have and interest in martial art, but they have something else that they want to try, that they want to do, and so our example says yes, go for it, try it, do it. You can do anything as long as you find good coaching, and a good support group, and you don't allow yourself to be limited by anybody else's opinion, because that's a big part of it, what will other people think? Or what are my preconceived notions about something. And I think that that's really important, too.Right, so I will amend my earlier observation. Even though I-Well, you don't have to amend anything.Well, even though I-That's why there are two of us.I know. Even though I was reminded that age is not a state of mind, I would say that martial arts is a state of mind. And that is the state of mind that we're talking about, and that is amenable to, as I mentioned previously, all physical capabilities, mental capabilities, economic capabilities. There's always a way that you can practice the message, and you can grow through martial arts.And we're kind of redefining the whole term martial arts, I think. We're in the process of that right now. We're-Yeah, it's not just for children.It's not just for anybody.It never was for children, originally. This is what's so funny is that I-So get out of here children, get!No, they get ... there's so much value in the martial arts, but what a lot of the kids are doing now is not martial arts. A lot of the things that I see in the schools, game playing, a lot of positive reinforcement, that's all good. Focus, discipline, and the things that we teach, that's all important, it's all good.But blocking, punching, kicking, get in and out of the way, defending yourself, learning how to fight, learning how to move, that's not necessarily what kids are learning in all schools. Now, a lot of schools do still teach that, but it is much, much more challenging, from a physical perspective, to teach kids the values of martial arts, the things that we're doing.And then society, especially here in the West, has changed so much, and there's so much fear and misunderstanding about what we do, and we've become less and less physical overall. When I started, classes were five ... you went to class five or six days a week, and it was a couple hours at a time, and there was a lot of physical contact, and there was very little room for not paying attention and no focus. But all the students were older, or in my case, looked older and were bigger. Yeah.Now, I have ... I just taught a class, just got out of there, and I had three three-year-old kids in there. Now, I am not teaching, and I'll be the first to say this, I'm not teaching them martial arts in the respect that it was taught to me as a kid.Yes, they're paying attention, and I'm better at it, I think, than almost anybody. I can get them to pay attention, and I can help them understand how to do that at school. These are all great byproducts. We talk about putting your hands up, saying, “Stop,” use your words, get out of the way. We even talk about blocking and all these other things.But to be ... It's just not the same. It's not martial arts in many respects. Now, I'm not going to debate, here, the value of it.And for our purposes, they're not really ready for our community. They will certainly benefit from our community.They have their own.They have their own community, which ...And they're going to grow up like this, with all this stuff, and ...Well, yeah, anyway ...Yeah.You know ...They're taken care of, this is for us. This is for-Right.Yeah, this is for you when you need to have a community, you need like minded people, you need to see examples of other people doing the things that you know, in the back of your head, you can do it, you know in your heart you want to. We're giving you permission. This is-Well, our-Yeah, this is us giving you permission.And our mission, to a large degree, is to teach by example, but teaching by example is hundreds of times more effective than telling people what to do, what not to do, don't do this, do that. If you teach an example that they can see that you are acting and living the way that you are describing life to be, then I think that is so much more effective.

Where have I been? Who am I? Well even though I don't really explain all of these burning questions I will very soon until then I hope you enjoy the sound of my voice as I try to express my feelings about the traditional school system. --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

You may have noticed a slight change in the LGBTQ community‘s acronym of late to include the letter “I.” So what’s with the “I”? Well the letter “I” stands for Intersex. And what is intersex? Well that’s precisely what Sadie Synn andMadame Margherite are here to educate us about. Tune in and find out: What Intersex is? How Intersex differs from Transgender including The difference between biological sex and gender identity Infant Conforming Genital Mutilation Issues that those who are Intersex face Struggles with the medical community The obstacles involved in dating and intimacy The social awkwardness, having to stay covered up, conforming to societal standards How to be a good ally to an Intersex individual How to raise awareness about Intersex without being Intersex How to speak with an Intersex individual and more! Join us for a riveting show and learn to be an ally in everyone’s fight to be allowed to be different. Because like it or not, we all are. Once you accept that we are all different, every single living thing on this planet - different, suddenly there are no walls, there is no such thing as exclusion (exclusion from what?) and there’s a lot of room in the world. What are your thoughts? Join me on What’s On Yo Mind? At the start of the show and tell us, What’s On Yo Mind? By calling in 657-383-0031 or email me with your thoughts and I’ll read them on the show.

More than ever, people are doing Flex and Rigid Flex for the very first time as industries drive for smaller, more user-friendly devices. Join Altium's Judy Warner and OmniPCB CEO, Tara Dunn for a conversation on industry trends and cost drivers.   Show Highlights: What is driving growth in the market? Space, weight, packaging. Flex is everywhere especially handhelds and medical devices, uptick in flex and rigid flex PCB across every industry. Three main cost drivers for Flex and Rigid Flex: Materials selection, Panel utilization and Technology. And a fourth consideration - understanding your fabricator capabilities and making sure you’re matching your design to their capabilities. Most common materials: copper and polymide.   Links and Resources: OmniPCB Company website Tara Dunn’s AltiumLive presentation Geekapalooza PCB Advisor site Flex Talk FlexFactor by NextFlex Jabil’s Blue Sky facility in San Jose Hi everyone, this is Judy Warner with Altium's OnTrack podcast. Welcome back, if this is your first time we're glad to have you. Before we get going today I've got a great guest for you, but before we get going I wanted to remind you to please subscribe to this podcast, and you can follow us on iTunes, on your favorite RSS feed, or wherever, whatever app you like to use for your podcasts.   Today I have with me Tara, oh before I get going on Tara I wanted to also say, please follow me on LinkedIn and also on Twitter, I'm at Altium Judy, and Altium you can also follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn. Okay, Tara, hi my friend, so good to see you, welcome to La Jolla, California.   Thank you. So, Tara was a recent, is a dear, dear friend of mine in the industry. There's not many of us women that have actually been in the printed circuit board business and understand how circuit boards are made, but we do indeed know how that's done, and Tara owns OmniPCB. She's based in the Minneapolis area, and she is a real flex expert, and we've been friends for, how long has it been now? I don't know, what six or seven, eight years? Probably something like that. Anyways, Tara and I met at a trade show and instantly started introducing each other to our friends and colleagues and next thing you know, we just created this energy, and we both have written columns for iConnect 007. Tara has an event in Minnesota called Geekapalooza. Which Judy helped bring out to California. California, so I brought it out here to Irvine, and then we brought it together to Boston, so we've had lots of professional adventures together, so it's my joy to have you and for us to learn more about your expertise in flex. So, how are you liking La Jolla? I know you're here for a few weeks, I bet you're glad to get out of the snow. Oh yeah, it's no hardship to leave Minnesota winter this time of year. I'm loving the sun and the beach, so like- What was the temperature when you left? Minus five, something like that, and slippery roads and cars were going into ditches, we're driving to the airport I'm like "just please make it there so I don't miss my flight"- Oh my gosh. -and I landed here, it was sunny and beautiful. Right? I know. I know, that's why we like it here. It's expensive to live here, but we love it. So, welcome to the La Jolla office, anyways. So we want to talk today about your deep knowledge on flex circuits, which are becoming more and more commonplace, right? You and I started out in our careers really focusing on Rigid FR-4, very standard boards, but it's really evolved now. Oh yeah, flex is a significantly growing portion of the market. And what do you think's driving that? Space, weight, packaging. You know, it's small it can be smaller, lighter, folded, it's really perfect for all of those electronics, the handheld electronics, medical devices. Right. So what would you say, give us an overview, you just said medical devices, what other things are you seeing an uptick in the flex market? You know, really across the board. Across all industries. Really? Absolutely. You know, we've got companies that have been working with flex that are developing maybe more complex flex or rigid flex and, you know, easily once a week somebody's contacting me brand new, just trying to figure out how to work with flex and how to design flex and what's different, what do I need to know. So a lot of new applications cropping up are people that are just trying it for the first time. Well, that's why we invited Tara to be our flex expert at this year's Altium Live, and we'll share the link below but there's a really great presentation that Tara gave at Altium Live, and we have the video and her slide deck, so we'll share that at the bottom here so you can check into that later. So, let's talk a little bit about that presentation. That was speaking a lot about cost drivers. So, for the designers and engineers listening, what are some of the just overview, basic overview, of what cost drivers are for flex and rigid flex? Okay, so we often talk about three primary cost drivers, materials selection, panel utilization, and technology. I kind of like to throw, a little bit tongue-in-cheek but not really, a fourth one in there, which is understanding your fabricators capabilities and making sure that you're matching their capabilities with your design. Yeah. That's not just true in flex, by the way. True, it's across the industry. It's across the board. Yes. [laughter] So, start with materials. How does that affect cost? Okay, so there are just so many materials you can choose from with flex, so, but just for this quick discussion let's focus on the most common which is copper and polyamide. So, even focusing just on that segment, your fabricators are going to purchase laminates. They come in generally three different types which would be, two of them are adhesive-based, one with a standard acrylic adhesive, one with a flame retardant version of that adhesive, and then adhesive-less materials. So, all of those types come in a range. Typically your copper thickness is going to be a quarter, or a half ounce to two ounces. It doesn't mean you can't get a flex circuit greater than two ounces, it just means that your fabricator has to create the material themselves. Right. And polyamide thicknesses are generally between half mil and six mil. When you said your fabricator has to create that, does that mean they actually take the material and plate it up in their tanks, or you're buying a specialized material from the materials supplier? Right, you would buy the polyamide, the adhesive and the copper and the thicknesses that you need. So, like I said, huge range of options that you have when selecting materials for flex. So cost drivers, keeping that in mind, you know, why would you choose one over another or how does that progression go? Typically, the adhesive-based options are going to be a little bit less expensive. Okay. Okay, and they are typically used in single- sided, double- sided, maybe three or four layer flex is where you'll see those applications. As you go into higher layer count, or rigid flex, the adhesive-less material becomes necessary. Highly recommended for rigid flex. There's a z-axis mismatch between the FR-4 material and that acrylic adhesive, so you don't want to introduce the acrylic adhesive into the FR-4 stack-up. So that's why, you know, your fabricators are always going to recommend adhesive-less materials. All right, that makes sense. Mhmm. So, it's kind of like cost versus function- Right. -at certain point- Right. -that you need to keep in mind. Right. So, other than materials, I know, what are other things that help drive the cost? I mean I think that's what people are afraid of, right? They think "oh flex is too expensive, I can't go that way" but they really need to go that way, route, for functionality, and I think really what you taught us at AltiumLive was it's not that cut-and-dry, right? If you evaluate all these different things then it may not be as expensive as you think. Exactly, and as you decide to move to flex, you know, working with your fabricator on the materials side specifically can really help drive out cost. Is it looking at just the raw material? You know, you're generally going to be FR, flame-retardant, material, LF adhesive, and adhesive-less, but if your fabricator is building a lot of rigid flex they're gonna stock more adhesive-less materials, and your adhesive-less material is gonna be probably less expensive- Because they're buying more of it, they have it in stock you don't have to worry about minimum. Make that match, and so finding someone that does a lot of flex and rigid flex is going to help you right off the bat. Exactly, and understanding the material sets that they're using, and you know a great way to do that is to ask their field applications engineering group to help you with a stack-up. 'Cause if you're not directing them in a certain direction they will default to the material that they're using most commonly. So it's a really good way to make sure you're fitting that gap. Right. So what are some of the other cost drivers? You know, we look at different types of coverlay. Coverlay kind of follows a progression. So like, explain what coverlay is. So, with flexible circuits there's two types of coverlay. There's a flexible solder mask, which is very similar to our board type solder mask other than formulated to be flexible but applied the same way. It's a good option for circuits that might be single sided, double sided or less than two ounces of copper. Okay. Tends to be a little bit less expensive. I see. It does have a limitation in flexibility. It is flexible, but if you're having a highly dynamically flexing application it's probably not your best choice. Right. But another advantage is it does allow you to form those nice 90-degree angles on your surface mount pads. Of course. But when you need to, when you're concerned about reliability for flex life, the polyamide cover length, so it would be the polyamide that's the same as your base material and a layer of adhesive. That would be the next option that you would want to go to. The limitations on that tend to be, you know, because you're drilling or routing that coverlay, you're gonna have a round or an oval opening. Oh, okay. So as your circuits get more and more dense, it gets more and more difficult. We jokingly call it the Swiss cheese effect- Right, you drill it and you take off the back route entry and there's not enough material there to even hold it together. You know, it looks great on the screen when it's this big but when the part's little. So your fabricator will watch out for that if you're doing a design. We all do try to minimize that impact. The circuit board designer may be asked to gang open or, you know, make a larger opening over several pads to kind of alleviate that problem. And then continuing on that cost spectrum if you need the polyimide coverlay and you need that individual pad coverage, laser-cut coverlay would be the next option. Okay. So that allows you to get the nice 90 degree angles for the surface mount pad, much tighter registration. I would think from a cost standpoint too, in this case like laser cut, again a fabricator that doesn't do a lot of production of these kind of circuits may not have that equipment, may have to send it out, which drives the price up. Exactly, exactly. So, you know, I could see, that would be another benefit to making sure you're finding a fabricator that's really good at this technology. Exactly. Okay. Are there other areas or did we did exhaust that one? I think on the materials, yeah I think that those are the two primary things to look at, is the base material and the coverlay. Okay. So, it's always easy to kind of relate to that if we can hear a case study or an example that you've had, you know in your career, is there a couple stories you could tell us? Sure, sure. So, there is a medical application, for example, and trying to reduce the material cost it was designed as a three layer rigid flex and flex being on the outer layer in that case. Oh on the outer layer, okay. Because of the three layers, okay? So, but then in this case that required the flex to be button plated to maintain the flexibility and it required the circuit to have to be sent out to laser-cut for the coverlay to maintain the surface mount pads. So those two together required it to be done on a smaller manufacturing panel for the tighter registration. So, very expensive circuit and very difficult to manufacture. After a review with a fabricator, they decided to go to a four layer rigid flex, more standard construction. So the material costs are higher but it eliminated the need for the laser cut of the coverlay, it eliminated the need for the button plating and it was processed more standard. So although the material costs were higher the overall cost of that flex circuit dropped dramatically. So it's not always about look at the material cost and run, right, it really is about collaboration, which you and I both over the course of our careers have sang that song, you know, in a variety of circuits right? It's not, but I can see how in the case of flex and rigid flex it's even more important, right, because there's all these variables. Exactly, and that tends, flex and rigid flex tends to be a product that people are a little less sure of themselves when they're designing, have a lot more questions, so my advice is always to identify a few fabricators that you think will be good partners and then involve your fabricators early in the design. You know, because they're doing flex and rigid flex all day. Right. They've learned a lot of lessons so we all might as well take advantage of those lessons. Yes, absolutely, and that reminds me, another plug for Miss Tara is that she writes a column for the PCB 007 magazine monthly? Yes. Monthly, specifically about flex- Yep, it's called Flex Talk. Flex Talk, there you go. So there's another resource that, and she usually covers a lot of these in that magazine and I always, I always look forward to reading your columns. So another case study? Okay. A second case study I can think of is a military application. The product was, I would say having probably 90% failure in the field after assembly. So, very very expensive after a fully populated board and what happened was it's a rigid flex and it was being bent and it was cracking. So back to the drawing board, what can we learn from that? Turns out, simply re-did the stack up and went from adhesive based materials to adhesive-less materials. Oh wow. So it eliminated only three mils thickness in the overall stack up but it was a thickness, and the bend radius was causing that cracking. So by making that one simple change in that stack up, you know they've had 300 assemblies completed now with no cracking at all. And there's the expertise, right? Like who would know that three mils could fix that problem. I would have never guessed that in- Yeah, it seems insignificant, especially when we're used to looking at thick rigid boards 3 doesn't seem like anything at all. It doesn't seem like anything at all. That's so cool. Well, thank you. Those are great stories. You know, since you and I started in this industry, there were, I'm kind of shifting subjects now, a little bit and I wanted to talk to you a little bit about women in our industry. So, there are far more women in this industry now than there used to be. There still isn't that many of us who actually are on the front lines of sales and marketing that kind of thing. How did, I know I didn't end up in this industry on purpose. I love it and I love the industry, so how did you find your way, and I don't think I've ever asked you this? I'm here completely by accident. See? We didn't do this on purpose. No, my first job out of college was in the accounting department of a flexible circuit manufacturer. Okay, what was your major? Economics and industrial relations. Well, there you go. I didn't know what a flex circuit was when I started there. Right. Because of that, they required me to work out on their manufacturing floor and learn how to build a circuit, so I was out on that manufacturing floor for a few months. No way, I did the same thing but- Really? Yes, yes I- I'm so sorry to interrupt you, but the first circuit boards shop I worked at, and they had this whole language, these terms and things I'd never heard, you know what is SMOBC and I'm like, I don't know, solder mask over bare copper, and so I asked a production manager I'm going to come in on Saturdays and he's like, I'll put you in every department. That was like the best education ever, wouldn't you agree? I agree and I totally didn't appreciate it at the time. Yeah. But looking back I would have never learned the process as well, because I was running equipment and, I'm really terrible at registering coverlay. I've learned this. It's not something I should do. I don't have that hand-eye coordination, but it was it was a good thing to learn. Yeah, absolutely. That's so funny, I never knew that about you. So, what do you think we can do to sort of encourage, I mean we're doing a lot to encourage women in STEM and encourage them to become exposed to these types of careers. What do you think would be a good way, or how are some ways that you've seen, oh I know one thing you're going to tell me about right! Okay the Flex Factor program, Flex Factor, put on by NextFlex, so centered around flexible hybrid electronics, they have a program that reaches out to high school kids and it's an entrepreneurship program that ties in advanced manufacturing. So they go to Jabil, they get to see all the cool things, it's a month-long program. And this is in the middle of Silicon Valley? Yes. So fun. And I believe it's expanding beyond that. Wow. I was lucky enough to be on the judging panel at the end of one of their last ones. So much fun, but what it does is -  it takes students who may or may not be interested in a technical field, they might be interested in marketing or entrepreneurship, and it is a month program. First week they kind of get the charter and you have to develop, it's about product development, what kind of need do you see around Health and Human Services and what how could you solve it using a product that's using advanced manufacturing? Uh-huh. And then they get to go into the fancy Jabil building and see all the really cool things that they do there. They tie that into the next step, is entrepreneurship at a community college, and the students are actually given credit, college credit for this program, and then the fourth and final week they need to pitch kind of shark tank style to a panel and go through the whole product development process, profit and loss, and I mean it's just it's an amazing program, and it's so fun to watch kids you know who, I talked to one girl Jordan and she had really no interest in manufacturing or advanced manufacturing until, she wasn't exposed to it until this program, and now she's got a lot of ideas. Which is so great! I don't know how kids otherwise would get exposed to manufacturing, and when you go into a facility like Jabil or TTM or some of these big facilities, you know I think kids think manufacturing is like a dark, dank building with, you know, I don't know, something awful and you go in and there's robotics and chip shooters and all this amazing high-tech equipment and these clean rooms and you have to wear the whole bunny suit and the glasses and you go in and you're like wow this was not what I was expecting and that's so great. I forgot that you told me about that program and the whole shark tank, which makes it so- oh it was so much fun. -so what did the students pitch? Or like what are a couple things that the students pitched? You know there was all kinds of different things. They tended to kind of centre around babies or athletes. What? Well, different injuries that you might have as a student-athlete and how to rehab those injuries. Oh, okay. Or baby monitoring devices. Oh that kind of, okay. Yeah. So, what was the winner? Was there, is there a clear winner, do you remember? I don't remember who won for the panel I was on because they didn't announce it the day that I was there. All right. And so you're continuing now, right? To be involved with this initiative, and is this gonna be each year, or how often do they offer it? They do it throughout, throughout the year. I think they just had another round that went through so, and I might mix up the numbers slightly, but I think that the first program that they did which would have been the fall of 2016. I think they had eight students participate and its teams of four. So now they are up to thousands of students participating in this program. It's just growing and growing so fast. We're going to make sure that we put that website, so you have to make sure and share that, the URL, so people that are listening can look into that. Such an exciting program and I, you know, here at Altium we're doing so much with the universities and stuff and I love to see it happening, and it's so fun when you see the light bulbs go on and, you know, we love our industry and we want to keep it vitalized. Yes, yes. I think this is a great tool for generating some excitement. I know, I love it. I want a program for people our age to go back and do that. Right? Wouldn't that be fun? Yeah. What would we call it? I don't know, we'll have to think about that later. So okay, here's a really wonky question I think I already know the answer but I'm asking anyway. Are you a nerd or a geek? Geek. I asked the woman who runs Geekapalooza, that was a really easy answer. I know, okay but why do you think a geek? Why is it not Nerdapalooza? Like, why do you think you're a geek and not a nerd? That is an excellent question. Other than geek sounds better than nerd. See, I know, well- It's the general excitement over something that other people- Right, like geeking out over something right? Geek Squad. It's become cooler. I think geeks are cooler than nerds still, like just generally. I think that's the consensus. And my other wonky question is, on a scale from one to ten how weird are you? Well, pretty high up there, yeah. So like, what are some wonky things that make you weird? You know, I - Well first of all you're in this industry. First of all it's the industry right? I laugh because I'll go out to have lunch, a work lunch, and sometimes I think if anybody is listening to our conversations, we're talking about impedance control and stack-ups and EMI and I'm like, what are they talking about over lunch? I know I posted a video of me talking about fusion bonding on my personal Facebook page, and it blew up and people are like who are you? What are those words? They had no idea that I spoke this whole other tech language. And if you're out of the industry, you know, most of my friends, you know, my parents, my family, they don't know what I really do. I know, I know. We're gonna put your podcast, this podcast. We're gonna put this podcast on your- Can you cut that part out? No we'll put it on this and see what they think of you on a podcast talking about coverlay. They'll be like what? And my final question would be, well, one thing I know about Tara Dunn is that you love the beach even though you live in the snowiest place in the country. I live in a landlocked state. Yeah, there's that. But I noticed that a lot of technical people have really interesting hobbies, so what kind of things you like to do with your family or places you like to vacation or things you like to do in you're very few off hours that you have Tara because you don't have a lot of off hours. I don't, but with the job that I have it allows me to travel quite a bit because I can work pretty much remotely from anywhere and make that easy. So, yeah we love to travel. Specifically the beach. It's one of my favorites or in the winter anywhere warm. Desert area, everything's great, and I don't know what happened this year but suddenly I've become a music buff. Oh. I haven't been to a live concert in a few years and all of a sudden I think I have six or seven things booked so.. That's so funny. I don't know why. It's because your son went to college and you have a little more free time. That could be it. I don't know, I'm picking up new things now that my kids are out to college so that's probably the reason why. Well Tara, thanks. It's always a blast to hang out with you, and it's so fun to have you in California. Thanks for having me here. Usually we're on the phone on conference calls and we actually get to see each other in person, it's fun. So again we'll share lots of informative links for, that Tara has shared on this podcast and some that she didn't have time to talk about, we'll share them below so you can tap into all the interesting resources that Tara has, and I want to thank you again for what, for listening and or watching the OnTrack podcasts today. Please remember to subscribe at your favorite podcast app. Until then, always remember to stay on track.   

Episode 39 is a song episode. Today’s song is one of my favorites. Hmmmm, I think I say that every time don’t I? Well my friends, I love to sing. I wrote this song for one of my listeners when she was 6 years old. Well, she must be 12 years old today! This song is about shining with your heart - no matter what!  A great song for your kids at bath time, bedtime, car time, and family time.  http://www.aprileight.com Choose your reward and keep this show singing and storying at http://www.patreon.com/aprileight http://www.instagram.com/aprileightsongsandstoriespodcast http://facebook.com/aprileight   Sarah Shining by April Eight c 2012 Sarah it’s a lovely day The wind blows cold and the skies are grey Even the flowers are hiding away But who cares for we have you, Shining through.   Sarah smile for us. Share the spark that shines from your heart There’s nothing more that the world could hope for Than the wonderful girl that is you, Shining through.   Sarah happy birthday to you Six years old, so much to be and do Remember the light that shines in you Can never go away, Even on the greyest of days You’ll shine through Oh oh You’ll shine through. Happy 12th birthday, Sarah. Today’s episode is part of the All Kinds Of Love podcast series from Kids Listen. You can use the Kids Listen app or go to kids Listen dot org to find quality podcast shows for young listeners on this theme. Like Brains On. Their episode All Kinds of Love episode is about a snail named Sandy who looking for a snail partner who understands her. #AllKindofLove #kidsListen All songs copyright 2012, April Eight. All rights reserved. 

Hey, It’s Cascabel. I know you’re probably zipping between planets in some sort of experimental ship right now bud, but once you get back just let me know you got this, okay? I wanted to let you know that I got back from Skein and some of your old colleagues wanted me to pass on a hello. And, I know it’s weird to have them be working with the NEH now and I know it can be hard to hear, but they’re doing good work, man. You should check in on them. Quire is bleeding and they’re the closest thing to medics. I’ve seen it across every world I’ve been on, but on Skein, it’s bad, man. There’s a gash that cuts down to the core. Deep in the jungle, about a day from Terncage… that big city by the beach. It’s a wound that pulses. It groans. With each new beat, it finds and and breaks a new reality. So.. I guess I’m just not surprised that it attracted every scientist in the sector. The Skein? The Garden? They were already deep into this stuff on Old Quire, man. And your people from the Ever Forward? From what I understand, y’all have always been pathfinders, some of the best field researchers ever. So I get why you’re not thrilled with it but I’ve spoken to these folks. The New Earth Hegemony offered them a lot: resourcing, protection, time. They could do more good unified as Ternion than they ever could alone. In any case. I’m glad you’re doin alright. Test pilot seems like a good fit, you always liked to be on the cutting edge, after all. I never told you about the first time I saw the Amp Runner did I? The way it broke through the atmosphere? I saw through the trick, the screeching, the fake rust. But then I saw you inside and I was terrified. I’m glad we’re on the same side, Even. I… Well, if you ever need anything, you just let me know. After what we faced down together? Independence, the iconoclasts. Volition… A year ago, I was just a mercenary for hire. Now I’ve seen the world shatter and put itself back together. And I wouldn’t have made it out without you. If you’re ever around my neck of the woods, promise that you’ll let me know. This time on Twilight Mirage: This Year of Ours: The Pilot   The sun's going down Time to start your day bruh   Hosted by Austin Walker (@austin_walker) Featuring Andrew Lee Swan (@swandre3000) Produced by Ali Acampora (@ali_west) Cover Art by Craig Sheldon (@shoddyrobot) Episode description by Austin Walker Music by Jack de Quidt  (@notquitereal)

“Customer Service Hobgoblin” by Paul R. Hardy(Originally published in Unidentified Funny Objects 5.)Beeep."Good morning, you're through to Robin. How may I receive your prayer?""Oh. Hello? My name is Bishop Augusto de Figueroa. Am I speaking to God?""No, sir, my name's Robin. How can I --""Well, young man, I wanted to talk to God. You see it's very important that I speak to him.""Yes, of course, sir. You've come through on the Methodist line, is that --""No, no, no, this is wrong. I am Catholic.""Well, sir, it would help if you chose the Catholic line to start with, but I can --""Are you a saint?""No, sir. I just work here. But if it's not a Methodist prayer then I need to --""If you're not a saint then I don't need to talk to you.""Sir, in any case you're not going to be able to talk to God. That's not how it works.""Good afternoon, you’re through to Paul R. Hardy’s biography. Please listen carefully to the following options: For a humorous anecdote about his employment history, press 1. For a tedious list of his writing credits, press 2. For a heartwarming glimpse of his personal life, press 3. To listen to these options again, press" -- [beep]"You pressed 1. Paul weathered the economic crash of 2008 by working at a call centre for the London Congestion Charge, a fact which may seem relevant as you listen to the story. Unless you’ve ever had to pay the Congestion Charge, in which case you won’t be listening any further because you’ll have already thrown your device at the wall in a fit of" -- [beep]"You pressed 2. Paul’s short stories have appeared in both the fifth and sixth editions of the Unidentified Funny Objects anthology, and will also be seen in Diabolical Plots in about a year or so -- unless you’re on an archive binge in 2065, in which case all of this happened a long time ago and the nurse will be along with your tea in just a minute, smiling indulgently at your addiction to obsolete" -- [beep]"You pressed 3. Paul lives in the English Midlands and lives almost entirely on home-baked cakes and earl grey tea. He recently survived open heart surgery, which left him with a persistent ticking noise emanating from his chest and a rib cage held together by titanium wire. He has therefore given up any hope of passing through airport security without setting off a major" -- [click, brrr]About the Narrator:Rish Outfield is a writer, voice actor, and audiobook narrator. He can be heard co-hosting the Dunesteef Audio Fiction Magazine and That Gets My Goat podcasts, where he and Bigg Anklevich entertainingly waste much of their time. He also features his own stories on the Rish Outcast podcast. He once got a job because of his Sean Connery impersonation... but has lost two due to his Samuel L. Jackson impression. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

So who the hell am I? Well… in this 5 minute intro episode, you get the Coles notes version of yours truly, PLUS a little overview of what this podcast is all about. SO listen to it, or don’t… either way, I am going to pretend that everyone is SUPER interested in what’s to come!

What IF.... What IF us DJs were told our career has an expiry date... What IF this is the last concert we’ll ever give... What IF we know we are mixing our final track... What IF we find that our body starts to let us down... What IF our beloved ones and family can no longer speak or embrace us... What IF us DJs are faced with ALS???? That is why I’ m addressing you. Who am I? Well, let me briefly introduce myself. I'm Mathon Eijsden also known as DJ-MATHON. I moved over 10 years ago from the Netherlands to Spain and have lived there at various places before finally settling down in Malaga. As a DJ, your life revolves around studios, tours and parties. It is often difficult to make time for your family let alone for your friends. Not to mention that distance also plays a major role. By settling in Spain, a lot of friendships watered down and it is not obvious to properly maintain new friendships. In the Netherlands I have a buddy, to me a true friend, a pal for life. By a stroke of misfortune this friend has been affected by ALS. One moment you think OK, we will turn out fine, but nothing could be further from the truth. Everyone can recall the ice bucket challenge of about 2 years ago and the attention it drew to this terrible disease. We, by which I mean my friend who now has ALS and I, participated in it as well. And now I have to witness with my own eyes what this terrible disease does to him and how quickly he goes downhill. This made me decide that I am going to participate in the Iron Man in Maastricht on August 6, 2017 to collect as much money as possible and to help people affected by this terrible disease. People who do not have sufficient resources to make a last wish come true, or to try drugs that are not reimbursed by health insurance. It's quite a challenge to prepare myself to swim 3.86 km, 180.2 km cycling and 42.195 km run. But I'm pretty sure many people currently afflicted with ALS would give everything to fully enjoy life during those 9 months, still remaining till August 6, 2017, and live life to the max. Only this thought keeps me motivated to continue and I hope that my buddy, my best friend may still live on August 6th 2017 and then is waiting for me at the finish of the Iron Man. Because he is the reason why I do this, and for all people affected by ALS. What IF we DJs even provide unforgettable moments now? Therefore, I would like to ask you to help me by making a contribution into bank account NL57SNSB0938567543 Bic SNSB NL 2A In the name of DJ STOP ALS https://www.facebook.com/DJSTOPALS Mathon van Eijsden info@dj-mathon.com www.dj-mathon.com 0031-629038622 0034-664891010

Session 3. Dream Team & Dream Killers. Part 2 of a two part interview series with business coach Kirk McDow. Jim Holzknecht: This is Play By Play on Life, Session Number 3. This country has over 10,000 beaches. Start your engines. Get them revving. Are you ready to play full out? Shift to a new gear, accelerate? Great! Then buckle up. It's going to be a wild ride. Don't say I didn't warn you. Welcome to the transformational series, Play By Play on Life. This podcast series provides tips, tools, techniques and insights on how to reduce stress and increase joy, fun, creativity, inspiration and passion. I'm your host, Jim Holzknecht. This is Part 2 of a two-part series with Kirk McDow. We’re talking about resolutions here and goal as far as why they don’t work, why they don’t stick. And do you think it’s because people don’t necessarily start with why? Kirk McDow: I think it’s a couple of thing. Absolutely, I think it’s because people don’t start with why. They’re not starting from who are they, who do they want to be in the world, who are they saying that they are. All the time, we talk about “I like this,” “I like that,” “I’m not good at this,” I’m not good at that.” But really what is the I that you’re referring to? Is it your collection of experiences? Is it what you’re committed to? Is it what you do for a living? Is it your husband or wife? What is that I? Well, I’m saying, you could literally invent that instead of having kind of move around by default. So, for me, what I invented was contribution, which really empowered me. Now, that particular why or that why may not empower someone else but that spoke to me. But then, I know immediately, the biggest risk is it kept going out of existence. It kept disappearing. I’d wake up one morning and go, “Oh, my gosh, I shouldn’t be a coach. Who am I?” I’d be just be full of doubt and fear, and oh my God, blag, doom. Jim Holzknecht: [Laughter] Kirk McDow: Just, oh, like horrible, you know. So for me, the most important thing was to keep it maintained. And I know for me, I can maybe go for a few days of nothing really crazy happening. But man, a few things happen in a row and I’m out. So I assembled the team. Well, first thing I did is I hired a coach. What I have with her is whenever I speak with her, I connect to that which I created. Like that world, that possibility, that future I created, one of contribution and success and results. That world I created, when I connect with her, that world gets recreated and reinforced and strengthened. And we had strategy and structure and tactics and actions or whatever. Or, if it’s no longer in existence, we bring it back to existence and then we go to work, like that, right? Without her, it would have dropped out several times, like no question about it. And the next structure is my team. And for me, this is pretty informal. It’s about five or ten people. They are people who can hear what I’m committed to and who I’m committed to being, and they can assist me in empowering that, keeping that alive. So, for me, there’s this big thing about maintaining that, that you’re now committed to, that you created, the new I, the new you that you’re… However it is that any individuals looking at it, whatever gets created, it’s got to be nurtured. It’s a little baby, and needs to be taken care of and nurtured. It’s going to be awhile before it’s got its own legs.   Jim Holzknecht: How would someone go about doing that? Like, whoever’s listening to this that say, “Well, that’s well and good. He’s in coaching. He probably already knew this people,” what would you suggest to them? How would someone out there listening to this, what would be a good structure for them, or good resource for them to find a good coach, accountability partner, that kind of thing?   Kirk McDow: So, there’s a couple of different categories here. So, one category is a coach. There are lots of great coaches out there,

Hey ATA Listeners, I've got a riddle for you, as a potato's key tool, I have all the power. I am generally used on the half or full hour. If my cells were deceased or lost or the such, Only my partner would respond to your touch. What am I? Well if your clever like the Raj on The Big Bang Theory or his pal The Riddler, you would have guessed the TV remote control. A tool that helped Nico and I go scavenger hunting for America in search of Television worth watching this week with our reviews on the season premiere of Once upon a Time, Castle, Person of Interest, The Legend of Korra, How I Met Your Mother, Modern Family and The Big Bang Theory. Then we got a little lost on our hunt for good television with the Airwaves Rundown as we covered several terrible sitcom pilots but we ended up turning things around with reviews on Homeland, Sleepy Hollow, The Goldbergs, New Girl, Brooklyn Nine–Nine, Hostages, Revolution, Elementary and much, much more including The Blacklist where Elizabeth Keen wanted to reach out with a pen to stab me and then you… So Sweet Caroline give this episode a listen because good times have never been so good!

An interview with one of the participants from the very first Herpes Opportunity weekend seminar in Raleigh, NC, October 26-28, 2012. Transcript: I: So yeah, just like a general sense of the weekend. What was it like for you? P: I wasn’t really sure going in what to expect, but I came out a different person for sure. It’s more about your self. It’s more about really . . . it’s like self-awareness. It’s really finding out what makes you tick, what’s bothering you. Kind of I guess, just looking at where you are now and where you want to be, and what your gaps are and why you’re not there. I took a lot away from it. And it wasn’t just about the “H”, but more about your self. Pain’s the way I thought about myself actually. And I think about other people, too. I think a lot of it was some of the exercises we went through. I guess opened my eyes. I was feeling kind of alone and disconnected, a lot of different things. I didn’t know whether I could do it, but I guess I just have a whole different prospective on where I was at, and why I was doing certain things to myself when there really was no reason to be that way. I was in a different kind of place, I guess. I just wasn’t thinking in the right frame of mind for a long time, I think. I knew it was a problem, but I never—I don’t know, I guess I just didn’t want to go there. I think a lot of it is, you’re vulnerable, the fear, there’s so many different things, you know, that can go into it. Once you can recognize what it is, you can really start to build some kind of foundation on how you want to change it. (02:38) I: Good. It sounds like the beginning of a new path for you was actually to start looking at maybe the stuff that you didn’t originally want to look at. P: Exactly. Yep. That’s what it is. Sometimes you just need a push, you know. You just need someone to say the right things, the right words, and of course you need to let it all out. I mean, I hadn’t had a meltdown like that probably for, well, I don’t know, for a long time. (03:07) I: How you’re explaining it, it almost sounds like it was purging something from you that had been trapped inside for a while. P: Yes. Yes, that’s another good word. Yeah, I agree with that. I mean, you do it with yourself, but when you have other people there that are just kind of listening, and helping you along, and giving their perspective. It makes a difference. I think it really opens your eyes up to a lot of different possibilities, different opportunities, things you didn’t look at before. I mean, a lot of it, I look at myself saying, “Why didn’t I think of that?” Or my mind was so closed on a certain path or a certain way that I wasn’t even looking at other avenues. And then to hear the other people, “Gosh, I said that problem, too, and this is how I handled it, or it wasn’t exactly similar, but . . .” I mean, that kind of put a little bit in perspective too that I was really thinking, “Of course, I’m alone and no one else is feeling this. What is wrong with me?” You know, that kind of thing. [Laughs] (04:12) I: You’re the only one. [Laughs] P: Yeah, your mind just plays so many different scenarios. And my problem was, I wasn’t letting anybody in, wasn’t telling anybody anything, but it was more than that for me, it wasn’t just about the “H”. And I realized that. It’s not really about that. It’s more about coming in tune with yourself, and really valuing what you have to bring, and then just like listening to other people, too. It was really—I’m really glad I went. I wasn’t going to, I didn’t want to, and you know the whole “H” thing, that’s just another part of my issue, but I’m really glad I did because it really opened up my eyes to a lot of different things, and how much I was shutting a lot of stuff down that I shouldn’t have been. It helped me really, you know say, “God, I have all these people out here, why am I not reaching out? What is wrong with me?” It really kind of put that back into perspective that I don’t have to go through all this alone. It just helped me say—you know I kept saying, ”Yeah, I accept it. I accept it.” But I really don’t think I did to be honest. (05:26) I: Umm hmm. It sounds like you felt really supported. P: Yeah, I did. Yeah, probably for the first time in a long time. I: Wow. How does that feel to say that? P: It feels good, really. I’ve been trying to take it all in the last couple days, and each day I get better, I get more confident. I’m more—I’m not thinking of the negative things, I’m thinking of “Okay, what can I do to push it through. There’s got to be some other avenue or another thing I can do.” Instead of just saying, “Okay, it’s not going to work. I’m done.” Then you shut yourself down, and you miss out on some many different opportunities or maybe different possibilities you didn’t think of before, you didn’t look at before. (06:12) I: Yeah. What else is different about you now? P: I don’t know. I guess I feel a little bit more of a relief. I don’t feel the weight on my shoulders any more. I feel that I can just look at certain things and take it one step at a time. Whereas before I just felt so closed in. I felt like, “God, it’s too much. I just can’t do it.” I’m feeling more like this is an obstacle, but how can I get around it? Or what can I do to help me face it? For the most part, I got out the value that I wanted for me. It was a really good experience for me. I’m so glad that I [Laughs], I finished it because I think I would have been very disappointed in myself if I didn’t. (07:03) I: If you were to tell someone who might be considering coming to the seminar, but they’re afraid or they don’t really know what it’s about . . .what would you tell that person? P: I would tell them that I felt the same way. Without giving it away, it’s about “H”, but it’s something more. It’s more of like a movement. And it’s really about your self. It’s really about taking a weekend and really—it’s like a retreat. Take a weekend and just really think about yourself. Sometimes you need that, you need . . . and don’t be afraid to have someone push you because sometimes we need that push. You’ll really be glad you did because you’ll really find out things about yourself and other people that you would never found out if you didn’t go to the seminar. It’s really valuable even though you might think, ”God, I don’t need this.” because I didn’t think I needed either. Because everyone thinks they’re coping with things when they’re really not, so I think I would just encourage them. Yeah, you have “H”, but there’s [sic] other things you’re going to get out of the seminar that I think you’re going to be pleasantly surprised at the end, and how you feel about yourself and other people. (08:21) I: I think you said that for you, it felt pretty heavy at the beginning like when you first came in you felt pretty heavy, but by the end, it was like the weight was off, I feel really light, I feel free. P: Yeah. Yeah, it was like a—it was freedom, it was a relief; I’ve been carrying a lot on my shoulders. Just as I was driving today, I was coming back from somewhere and I’m like, “My God, why was I doing that all of these years? I was taking on this burden.” (08:51) I: Before you came to the seminar, when you had disclosed, you had gotten rejected. How do you feel about disclosing to someone now? P: Much better. Much better. I think it was my whole attitude . . . I’m like, “They’re never going to accept this and you can’t go in like that. It’s so much different how I feel now about it. I don’t know. It’s kind of hard to explain. I have a whole different perspective on that now. And even talking to other people, the other participants, and even the staff regarding that . . . I mean, it’s—I don’t know, I just feel like I’m more confident for some reason. I think that has a lot to do with feeling you’re worthy, you deserve it . . . I never really felt that way before. I always thought, “Alright, I don’t deserve it. I did something wrong.” [Laughs] (09:49) I: And now you feel like now you deserve it. P: Yeah, I feel like, “Goddamn it, you know, I do. There’s nothing wrong with me.” [Both laugh] It’s just one little obstacle that you can overcome. I’ve seen people with relationships where one has it, or they both do [sic] or whatever. You know, and people are still together. I mean, sh*t, a lot of it doesn’t have anything to do with it, more of it’s financial reasons, and other reasons why people split up. But I wasn’t thinking like that, I had another way of thinking before walking in there. It’s just kind of opened my eyes a little more I guess. It’s giving me a chance. I wasn’t even giving myself a chance, I think. I was shooting myself down before I even went in to disclose. A lot of it you don’t think about body language and you know, looking in someone’s eyes, really think a lot about that stuff when you’re talking to somebody. And some of it was, “Oh my God, they’re going to think this . . .” When really actually they’re not. Even before you would speak, it’s putting a lot of preconceived—like what I was doing, “Oh, he’s never going to . . .” this guy when I tell him, he’s going to walk out the door. And that shows on your face. (11:08) Break in interview: Interviewer states, “And then I said, ‘Wow. After hearing all of that, it sounds like it was a really good weekend for you.’” P: Yes. Absolutely. It just really lifted me up. It really—I just needed it. I needed a big push and I got it. I’m just so glad that I attended and that I came back—that I didn’t get into that place again where, “Oh, I can’t do this, and I can just do everything by myself. And I’m so independent, and I don’t need anybody.” You know, that kind of thing. And really I did. It’s like, “No, you’re getting your ass up, and you’re going there and you’re going to finish it.” That’s what I did. So I think just a lot of what people said to me, it just made me feel good. For one thing because I haven’t heard it in a while, but I kind of already knew that it was there. But to have people see it actually, and to tell you, it just really meant a lot to me. It really gives you a little bit of a boost. And just reiterates what really was inside of me, that is was there all along. It’s just that I let myself get into some kind of funk or whatever you want to call it, and to believe that it wasn’t there anymore and I’m not a good person, or I can’t do this or something will never happen that I want to happen. (12:39) I: Yeah. So actually having people see your beauty, and your leadership, and your big heart . . .it actually had you being able to see all those things more clearly in your self? P: Exactly. Exactly. I: And how does that feel to realize all of those things about yourself? (13:03) P: It feels great. [Laughs] It just feels wonderful. I can’t tell you how, just a better perspective I have. I was such in a dark place before. I’m just not in that place anymore. I don’t ever want to go there again. And hopefully, I won’t. It opens up your eyes. It’s like, “What have you been doing the last couple months or the last couple years feeling this way?” There’s absolutely no reason to feel that way. It really helps you bring out your strengths and know that you have courage even coming there for one thing. It really says a lot about yourself, and it makes you believe. I don’t want to say, “Gives you hope.” because you always have—I always had hope, but it’s just the word that’s coming into my mind right now. It gives you hope, makes you believe, you know not go back into where you were before because it’s just not a good place to be. (14:05) I: It sounds like when you talk about all this stuff that you have a tool set now for making sure you don’t flip into that dark space again. P: Yes, I do. You’re absolutely right. I like set the foundation to build what I know what I need to do. It’s the push I needed to do it. It kind of sets you in motion for what you want to do, and it gives kind of like a goal to reach in the next couple months or the next year. And it kind of gives you the momentum after something like this to follow through with what I need to do for myself. (14:45) I: Well, cool. It sounds like a lot of healing took place for you over the course of the weekend. P: Yeah, it really did. It really was a good experience for me. I can’t thank you enough for pushing me because if I didn’t have the push, I’d still be where I was. I wasn’t in a good place, but I feel so much better now. And I’m just so glad that I came and I met everybody. It opened up whole new avenue of living my life. I don’t know, it’s kind of hard to explain, I guess. (15:19) I: That was beautifully explained. [Laughs] I love what you just said. P: Wow. Thanks. I: Yeah. I’m just really proud of you for having the courage to, like you said, to even come. (15:33) P: Yeah, it’s—thank you. I know that now. I didn’t think when I walked in there, “I have courage.” but it was… for everyone. Like you said, you just get into the mold and you get beat up so hard sometimes that it’s hard to come out of something, but with a weekend to really kind of look at yourself and hear feed back from other people. It’s really—it’s so valuable to me. Like I said, it’s worth gold. It’s worth gold. (16:10) I: [Laughs] That is so good to hear. I’m so glad that you came. P: I’m glad I came, too. And you did a really nice job facilitating, by the way. I: [Laughs] Thank you. P: Yeah, that was a huge thing to undertake—this is going to get really huge. I think you know that. [Laughs] (16:33) I: I hope so. I hope so. I can’t wait for it to blow up, and help as many people as possible. Just your help on the phone with me now really helps that. P: It will. This is going to get really big. It’s really a good seminar. You don’t how many more people you’re going to help. It’s just so wide open. And so many people need this that it’s going to be incredible. It really is. (17:04) Break in interview: Interviewer states, “Wow, pretty cool. And then we got talking about the possibility of coming back and helping staff again, and helping other people who need it. Here’s what we started talking about…” (17:17) P: I was just going to say that I saw a lot of me in some of the younger folks, and just some of the things they said because they were so newly diagnosed. I’m like, “Oh, my goodness. You know, I’ve been there. I know your pain. You’re going to get better.” To hear them say, “Oh, I’m just not—I don’t feel pretty, and I feel dirty. I’m never going to be able to get a date.” It’s just like, “Oh my gosh, you know, I’ve been through this…yes, you will.” [Laughs] It makes you want to really reach out to them…hey, listen, you’re going to be fine. You’re going to go through some stuff, yeah, but you’re going to come out of it okay. I never had that when I was diagnosed, so I want to be able to give that to somebody. They’re just going to take the ball and run with it, and just be overwhelmed with joy that someone’s actually taken the time to tell them they’re going to be okay. And you make all these friends along the way that you didn’t have before. The whole experience is like really incredible. [Laughs] (18:27) I: [Laughs] I like that little laugh at the end. [Laughs] P: A laugh of happiness. I: Awesome. It’s so good. (18:39)

Hi, I am here with Brianna Bragg. Briana Bragg is a wellness industry leader specializing in meditation and mindfulness. She is the founder of Vacation of the Mind, a meditation program designed to be practical and welcoming. Her approach inspires people to assess their lifestyle and incorporate meditation to live a healthy and meaningful life. As an energetic, highly-driven visionary and entrepreneur, Briana Bragg loves life and lives it on-the-go , here is the full episode hope you enjoy. Listen in your favorite podcast app. Ari Gronich 0:01 Has it occurred to you that the systems we live by are not designed to get results. We pay for procedures instead of outcomes, focusing on emergencies rather than preventing disease and living a healthy lifestyle. For over 25 years, I've taken care of Olympians Paralympians a list actors in fortune 1000 companies, if I did not get results, they did not get results. I realized that while powerful people who control the system wants to keep the status quo, if I were to educate the masses, you would demand change. So I'm taking the gloves off and going after the systems as they are join me on my mission to create a new tomorrow as I chat with industry experts, elite athletes, thought leaders and government officials about how we activate our vision for a better world. We may agree, and we may disagree, but I'm not backing down. I'm Ari Gronich and this is create a new tomorrow podcast. Hi, my me. I am here with Brianna Bragg and the vacation of the mind we're going to be taking you on a journey. When you have nowhere to go and nothing to do. What do you do, you take a vacation of the mind. And Brianna is an expert in that field, I'm going to let her give you some of her words of wisdom and mental journeys to increase your immunity actually during the COVID Response Unit. So we're in this quarantine, everybody is shut down. And that means that your immune system is getting shut down too. And when you can do anything to help your stress levels, relax your mind, relax your body, it's going to boost your immune system. So Brianna, why don't you talk a little bit about who you are and why you're talking to people. Briana Bragg 2:03 Awesome. Thank you so much Ari, it's great to be here and glad we got the the technology to finally cooperate a little bit today. So I'm Brianna Bragg the founder of vacation of the mind, we're a mindfulness company with a passion of for oneness for for wellness, oh my goodness, let me start that over. I'm Brianna Bragg, the founder of vacation of the mind. And we're passionate about oneness through wellness. We offer workplace wellness programs, certifications and trainings as well as large mass events. And it's just a pleasure to be operating during this time. You know, a lot of people's senses are heightened, you know, our thoughts create these feedback loops that then create behavioral patterns. And when this when this all started, we all got kind of thrown into a survival mode and survival mode. You know, it's very interesting for the body because it pumps these hormones cortisol and adrenaline throughout the body on a consistent basis telling that telling the body that it needs to survive, and it needs to do certain things to survive. And while that's great and wonderful and short term doses, over a long span, it can cause serious health issues. It can decrease immunity, like what you were talking about. And mindfulness. And meditation is such a great tool to help combat some of that stress, relaxing the central nervous system, boosting immunity, reducing stress and anxiety, as well as improving focus and productivity. You know, everybody's working from home, we're all being faced with some additional challenges right now. With the kids screaming in the background, not wanting to do their schoolwork, or, you know, just us feeling confined in one place. And so meditation and mindfulness is a great tool to help get ourselves out of that negative thought patterns into a more positive place. Awesome. Thank Ari Gronich 3:54 you. So what got you started in in this field from where you started out originally? Briana Bragg 4:01 Yeah, you know, necessity, right? I've always been an overachiever mentality with that gogogo mindset that, you know, I thought to be successful or to have the kind of life that you want to live, you always have to be in go mode constantly responding constantly on living that hustle and bustle life. And that led me down a path of being very sick and ill at a very young age. And, you know, I was able to utilize meditation and mindfulness to really change my life. And now it's my passion to help others do the same. I think I know when I started out Ari, it was you know, a lot of YouTube videos and researching on the internet. And while that's great and wonderful, it can be confusing at first, you know, am I doing this right? I can't get my mind to calm How the hell do I get my mind calm if it's not trained? And so, you know, I learned some steps that helped me simplify the process. helped me reduce some of the guilt and shame over Am I doing this right? And then I formulated my own process that the more I practiced with other people or on other people, you know it, it worked every single time. And so now it's my passion to help other people. We have certifications and trainings where we teach the process to people who want to be an instructor, I think that, you know, that's going to help us reach the masses. And you know, we do our own one on ones and group trainings as well to help people learn simple steps that they can use, it doesn't have to be you don't have to go climb the entire mountain. Ari Gronich 5:40 So you mentioned corporate wellness and corporate programs, what benefit would it have for, say, an HR department to have somebody on staff that's trained in your system for their employees benefit and wellness? Briana Bragg 5:58 Yeah, absolutely. You know, first of all, I just want to back up and say that 80% of employees feel stressed. And there's $300 billion a year that's, that's B with that's billion with a B, just in the US alone, that's spent on health related costs that are associated distress. Now, that was before COVID-19. I don't even know if I want to know what that that number is going to look like, once we come out of this, right. And, you know, stress causes a lot of, of health issues it can cause insomnia can cause high blood pressure, it can cause fatigue, burnout. And the list kind of goes on, you know, headaches, upset stomach, I mean, there's there's a lot of illnesses, and that are associated with stress. And so having someone on the team to be who is trained in mindfulness and meditation is a huge benefit to employers, because employers are really focused on what productivity right they want as much out of us as we can possibly get. And you know, the time that we have to work well, what happens when a body is stressed out, is we're just kind of shutting down, we're less focused. I know for myself, I've had to even during this time, kick up my own meditation, because there are days where I'm just like, I sit down at my computer, and I'm like, I don't even know where to start or what to do, you know, and I've really got to dive into being a little more focused, we're less creative, we're less able to make decisions and handle problems as they come up and finding solutions for those problems. And so when you think about this from a productivity scale, employers are losing, you know, thousands of hours of productivity, because they're just they're pushing, pushing, pushing, instead of giving their employees time to reset time to pause time to calm some of those stress responses. And so having someone on the team, who's trained in a process that works to help their employees reduce stress and anxiety ultimately leads to more productivity, creativity and focus on the job. Ari Gronich 8:04 Absolutely. So I have a bit of a background in corporate wellness and corporate culture. And it amazes me, whenever I talk or consult with a company, that they're only looking at what they consider to be hard costs, when the largest cost to accompany is what's called presenteeism, and presenteeism. For those who don't know that term. It's not like absenteeism, which is when somebody is away from the office completely. presenteeism is when somebody is in front of their computer in front of their job at the job. And they're doing nothing, they're present. But they're not present. And that is 100% caused by outside distractions of stress, whether it's relationship issues, health issues, financial issues, those kinds of things. And so they they average it, so an average worker in a three or an eight hour day, is only productive for two to three of those hours. The rest of the time, they might as well be on the computer playing freecell Briana Bragg 9:24 Yeah, that's insane, isn't it? Ari Gronich 9:26 Yeah, that's how how productive they are. So if by using mindfulness, you cut that stress response down, you allow more focus and creativity, that productivity goes up. I mean, how much of a hard cost, we'll say, versus soft costs. How much of a hard cost would say getting five hours four to five hours of productivity out of an eight hour day versus two to three? How much would that earn that company? So When we look at those kinds of numbers, it really makes sense to use mindfulness and meditation and so forth in, in a corporate wellness program. Briana Bragg 10:10 Yeah, absolutely. Well, it's an investment into the company and an investment into your team, you know, and one thing I will say about some of the up and coming generation, as they are requiring companies to provide additional tools and resources for health and wellness, because that's one of the things that's important to them. And I think, you know, not just looking at your team is what can What can it produce, but I love that you brought in that it's a culture, it's a culture shift in terms of supporting your employees, and really caring about them as human beings and what they're going through and, and how they're dealing with certain situations. And especially during this time, it's more important than ever to make sure that the emotional and mental well being of your employees is healthy. Otherwise, you know that those, those three hours are coming down to even less right now with with our situation that we're facing, Ari Gronich 11:01 right. And with employee loyalty, as well, taking care of your employees equals more loyal employees, they leave less because they feel taken care of. So even if you're maybe not paying them as much as the next job, but you have more of those kinds of benefits, that loyalty is going to create less turnover and less issues with having to retrain and find another employee and then get them on boarded, and etc. So it really, really affects the bottom line of companies. How about for just individuals, family members of companies, right individuals who are in the home, so I used to say, as a massage therapist, right, I used to say, if the police officer who pulled me over gave me a massage instead of a ticket, I might go home a little more happy. Briana Bragg 11:58 I love that analogy. Ari Gronich 12:00 asked, and and I might you know, be nicer to my family and so on. So what is the the benefit that reaches over to the rest of the population? When the employees are not coming home with having had a bad day? That's, you know, cost them their emotional state and their adrenal date? So what's the turnover? Around the Yeah, Briana Bragg 12:25 absolutely. Well, you know, they have more patience with their family, more patients at home, with their kids, but their spouse, you know, being able to handle situations that come up at home with a little more ease and a little more flow. You know, when you come when you come home, and you're in that stressed out state, you're snippy, you know, you're short. I know a lot of that is happening right now I've even had to check myself a couple of times with my partner, I was like, you know, okay, maybe I didn't need to respond that way, right. And so when we're at a heightened level of stress, we do bring that home. And you know, you don't have the time that you want to dedicate sometimes to your family, because you just don't have the emotional bandwidth to. And so when you're able to bring some of that down and operate from a more relaxed state that absolutely is going to carry over into the home in terms of time, you're able to give emotion, the emotion that you're able to give your spouse or your children and the patients that you're able to have to handle some of the little things that really aren't so big if you're not stressed out, 24/7. Ari Gronich 13:33 So let's talk about that responding versus reacting. And what mindfulness does, when you become more and more and more aware of what state you're in, and are able to then respond versus react, which is an issue we all tend to have at some point or another we react to the threat versus responding to the issue, right? Briana Bragg 14:02 Yeah, you know, I love to use the analogy here on you're on a highway and someone cuts you off on the highway, you know, most of us react, right? We're flipping them the finger, we're cursing, yelling at them, you blah, blah, blah. I used to have road rage, I admit, you know, I used to be one of the worst road rage people probably meat on the planet. And I drove a fast car because of it because I wanted to get the heck out of people's way in hell. But what mindfulness does is it allows you to kind of calm those reactions down and really look at things from a different perspective. And so mindfulness is really the practice of becoming aware of your present moment, your reactions, what emotional state you're in with thoughts are going through your head. So most of the time what happens in that scenario and most scenarios in our life, you know, is we're thinking, this jerk just cut me off because of blah, blah, blah. Well, what mindfulness teaches you to do is instead of looking at it That way, looking at it from a different perspective, maybe he or she is on the way to the hospital because a spouse is injured, or a parent is, you know, just had a heart attack or something or, you know, maybe they just got a call that they needed to respond to something happening at their house, right. So what mindfulness does is really helps you to switch and change your perspective, on a situation, when you look at that situation of maybe their parent is just had a heart attack, right, you're not so reactive to the situation of them cutting you off, in fact, you'll probably hit the brake and slow down a little bit to let them over and let them go. So you know, the practice of just being aware of your thoughts can and and your reactions and your emotions can really help you move through life with more ease and being in a state of response instead of reaction. And then, you know, meditation is the process of retraining the brain to think process and react differently. And so things like utilizing your breath work, things like calming mind chatter, or you know, coming to stillness in the mind, even if it's just for a few seconds, those kinds of techniques and practices, start helping train the brain to think and process differently. And so you can think of it like this as a, you know, we have all these neurons inside of our head. And I like to think of neurons as the little highways that we're driving on that messages or reactions or responses are driving on in the brain. When you start practicing meditation, you know, maybe your little car in the brain is used to driving the major highways. But what meditation can do is it might show you a short, a shortcut Hall, or it might show you that backward that you've never recognized before. And so that just the practice of calming your mind of finding your breath, refocusing some of the thoughts that you have in your mind, shifts you out of that state of what you're what's normal to you the highways that you've known, and helps you find different solutions. Ari Gronich 17:07 So, on that, on that kind of a note, here's, here's my question, I'm going to give you a scenario. And I'd like if you if you're willing to share a tool, right, so let's say you're a 20 something year old. And your, your new spouse does something that reminds you of somebody when you were a child, that you reacted to that situation, and now you're reacting the same way to your new spouse, right? So give us a tool on how you might redirect your thoughts. And remember, okay, this is not the person that injured me, you know, or influenced me in that way. 20 years ago, this is somebody new. So give me kind of like a tool that you would use? Briana Bragg 18:09 Yeah, absolutely. And I love these kind of scenarios, because quite honestly, I've dealt with them in my own life and had to use my own tools, which is why I know they're effective. You know, so the first, the first thing to do utilizing a mindfulness technique is just to become aware of the reaction itself. You know, take take a moment to just pause. In my relationship, we call it freeze frame. And so it's like when we feel that we've been triggered by a certain something, it's like, okay, let's freeze this frame for a moment. And just take notice what's happening in your mind. What kind of thoughts are you having right now? What's happening in your body? You know, I found it very interesting through my studies that when we're in a heightened state, our heart rate is elevated. And when our heart rate is elevated above 90 beats per minute, we can't think logically, we actually cannot think logically. And so the technique that is the first go to is taking that moment to pause, recognizing, becoming aware of what's going on, and then finding your breath, using your breath to get yourself out of that heightened state. Inhaling for a count of four and exhaling for a count of four is a very effective tool for just calming the moment calming the response, calming the central nervous system, so that you can get back into logical decision making and figure out you know, maybe why you're being triggered that way, or even at least just have a normal conversation with your partner versus reacting and who knows what your behavioral pattern is at that point, yelling, screaming, throwing things, whatever it might be. The breath is an amazing tool, you know, it's free to all of us. Using that kind of a technique, inhaling and exhaling for a count of for about 10 times will get you out of that reactive mode and into a place where you can think more calmly and respond. Ari Gronich 20:03 Awesome. So I'm just going to add to that. Breathing in your nose and out your nose, calms your nervous system breathing in and out your mouth. heightened z is your adrenal glands and heightens that cortisol response. So one of the techniques that I always learned and use is, make sure I'm breathing from my nose. And then the second part of that is from Chinese medicine, you have this central meridian that connects here goes all the way around to your tailbone, and then the central governing meridians. And so they say, if you put your tongue at the top of your teeth right here, you're going to activate those energy channels to be in the correct direction to flow in the correct direction. So you create much more flow in your body. And I've always found that that helps me to relax faster. And you know, I've had, obviously my share of reactions and reactivity, versus, versus responding. And it's one of the things that even though I'm really well trained in tools and techniques, I'm not really very well trained in self actualizing, those tools and techniques. And so my next question to you is, how does one, get more self actualized? How to how do we remember to use the tools that we may be given in the moment of intensity, Briana Bragg 21:44 sharp, that's the hardest part, right. And by the way, I just want to say thank you for the inhale and exhale through the nose, I usually say that, and I, I forgot, because it does make a difference. It's 100%, you know, that speaks directly to your nervous system. So thank you for bringing that up. I appreciate you. elaborating on that. You know, that's the practice of mindfulness, you know, that becoming aware, we all have old thought patterns, we all have old behavioral patterns. And it's the hardest to actual life change. Because those are kind of on autopilot, you know, where they're responding from a subconscious state. You know, this triggers you and boom, before you know it, you're in an explosive fight with your partner, because you got triggered by x, instead of taking that time to freeze frame. And so it's really the practice of the awareness. And I talked to myself, I have conversations with myself quite a bit of you know, okay, all right, was a really that, you know, I understand that you're triggered, let's take a moment here and just do some deep breathing. So you're not, you know, you got to drop the guilt and shame, you're not going to be perfect, the few times that it happens, you're probably still going to respond in old behavioral patterns. But it's the practice of using these kinds of practices, when you find awareness, when you find yourself in those moments, because what what's happening in the brain is, every time you tell a negative thought pattern to stop, you're actually creating a new highway in the brain. So you know, you got to give yourself some patience, you got to have, you know, a little bit of remorse for yourself in the beginning of trying, right? But the more you do, and the more you practice these techniques, the better you become in that moment. And what's going to happen eventually is your brain is going to stop going to that old thought pattern and come into the new one because you've retrained it to do so. Ari Gronich 23:44 So do you have with with your practitioners do you create practice groups, Briana Bragg 23:50 practice groups, I Well, in order for them to become certified, they they have to have a certain number of hours and group training that they have to do? Absolutely, because it's the repetition is what's key with mindfulness and meditation, you know, it's very similar to going to the gym, right? Like just because you go to the gym, the first time you pick up that weight, new workout, your bicep, you're not leaving the gym, like super toned, and you can lift 400 pounds or whatever, whatever people want to do, right? You have to have that repetition, in order to build the muscle in order to build the tone, it's the consistency of practicing, that that makes the difference. Ari Gronich 24:29 That's awesome. You know, for corporations that would be great to have practice groups with within the company, within teams in the company to have that, you know, that period of time where they get together in a circle, so to speak, and listen to each other's issues and then practice their responses and that mindfulness, I think that it helps with productivity helps with employee morale, and, and so on, but that would also probably be a good Good idea to do inside of a home? Briana Bragg 25:03 Absolutely, yeah, we have I know, in my own personal home, we have implemented certain strategies and, you know, certain techniques that that we go to first, as a way to practice and become better, you know, we're all human, we all make mistakes, we all are triggered by different things, and those old patterns are going to come up. But it's, it's really when you can start putting those things in place in your home, you know, have an agreement with your spouse or with your children to take that pause to freeze frame, or to take a few deep breaths before you respond. And then having that that agreement with yourself, as well. It's important. Ari Gronich 25:43 Yeah, for me, I, I've been homeschooling a lot, Oh, goodness, my son is six. And, and, you know, I, I grew up in a reactive environment. And so I am a very perfectionist environment. And so getting frustrated easily is one of one of my current traits. And, and so what I've asked my, my six year old to do, is if I start getting frustrated with him, then he's gonna just say, I think you need to breathe now daddy. Briana Bragg 26:26 And like, at the buddy system, Ari Gronich 26:29 it really is cuz it's like, oh, you know, you're probably right, I probably need to call myself that wasn't the reaction that I got, you know, response I wanted to give. And, and, you know, for me, it's a lot of retraining, how I was treated, you know, by teachers, by whoever it was like, Okay, I was treated, like, if you don't get this, right, you're, you're a bad person, you're a bat, you're not smart. You're, you know, like, all these different kinds of things. And so I'm retraining in me so that I don't cause him the same kind of damage. Yeah, sure. Briana Bragg 27:12 And, you know, it's really, that's why I said that the agreement, right, because sometimes, when we're so emotionally charged, we can't even see that we're in that phase that that we've, you know, we've stepped across the line and entered into that, okay, now I'm reacting from a place where I really don't want want to be reacting. And so having that agreement with another person to kind of help call it out, as long as it doesn't lead into another area of a fight. Right. So important. Yeah. I love that you're doing that with your son. That's great. Ari Gronich 27:46 Yeah, you know, I, I think that it's a great technique for any of the parents who are now, you know, homeschooling forced to homeschool. It's a skill set that people go to school for, right. It's a skill set that people take for years and get a degree in education to be able to teach their kids or teach our kids. And, you know, we're not trained, we're not qualified. Yeah. We're, we're having to do that. Yeah, it's been, it's been really an interesting part of the COVID challenge. You know, I'm calling all these things, the COVID challenge, rather than this, that inner pandemic, because, you know, it's all what's the challenge? What's the solution? What's the challenge? What's the solution? How do we find a solution to this? How do I find a solution to this? And so when you've got nowhere to go, and nothing to do, you know, take a vacation of the mind. So what kind of journeys Do you like to take people on? Briana Bragg 28:57 Yeah, nature 100% nature. And I just want to backtrack for a moment. You know, as parents, it's so important that we teach our children these practices from an early age, kind of like what you were saying, so we don't pass down those, those traits that we learned that are not so great. So you know, taking a mindfulness moment with your kids or teaching them to breathe when they get irritated is another great tool that you guys can both practice together. But we love journeys through nature. I've always been a big proponent of being in nature, it's very healing. You know, there's a lot of research being done about this right now. Even just listening to nature stick sounds for a couple of hours a day can reduce stress levels by 200%, which is insane. It's it's such an insane number when you think about it. And so we love to walk through forests or rain forests, go to the beach, you know, to a mountain top sitting at a waterfall, by a lake a peaceful lake at sunset or sunrise. And so all of our journeys are designed, we like to call them recreation scenes. And so most of them are designed from real life experiences that someone has taken in their life. And I teach in my program, how to recreate that scene for someone and walk them into stillness from there, because it's my personal belief that, you know, it's very hard to sit in stillness unless you're trained. And being able to distract the mind first, really helps, especially people who are beginning their experience with meditation really helps them with the ability to sit and stillness for longer periods of time. Ari Gronich 30:35 Yeah, you know, you as a, as a hypnotist, we've always used outside sources of things like, use a candle light, right? So we'll have the candle flickering. And the goal is to focus on the candle or a spot in the room, or the, you know, what is it the tempo thing that is going tick, tock, tick, tock, tick, tock, right. So we use these outside sources, to get into the inside sources, but as a meditation, you know, it's more the internal dialogue and the visualization inside of yourself. And so it's it's very interesting, the differences and similarities between say, hypnosis and, and meditation tricks that you can give somebody if they think I can't get out of my mind, my mind just won't stop. Briana Bragg 31:36 Absolutely, one of my favorite techniques for those that have a mind that they can't calm or quiet is to become the observer of your thoughts. You know, it's a very simple technique where you are more witnessing your thoughts. So you kind of take a step back. And you can either see yourself standing or sitting and just watching your thoughts float by as if they're on a movie reel, as if you're kind of watching a movie, detaching your emotions from them, detaching the judgments that you might have from them, and really just watching them being the observer. You know, with practice, obviously, this is going to get a little bit better, because we tend to chase our thoughts, which is usually what ends us up in the dark rabbit hole as I like to refer to it as versus when you can observe your thoughts, you're not telling your mind to completely shut off. If you have that issue, you're not, you know, trying to push them all out and get your mind to completely become still and quiet. You're still allowing the thoughts to be there. You're just shifting the view and the perspective of them. Ari Gronich 32:40 Okay, so let's say we're in the COVID line at the grocery store, where we've got to wait, you know, for 20 people to leave before the 20 people in front of us can go in. Yes. Right. So, I've seen I've seen people doing this where they're, you know, they're frustrated, they're getting angry, they're, you know, we should be able to get in, why are they you know, why aren't people leaving? Right? So there's that. And then there's the people who are just sitting there calm as can be Hmm. Right? Briana Bragg 33:13 Yes. Ari Gronich 33:14 What, what kinds of things can people do? During this particular time in our history? When we are isolated, were told to quarantine and stay home, when we go out. At least there's not the road rage as much because nobody's on the road anymore. But it's true. But no, there's there's the line rage or somebody just you know, what went into the, into my six feet of space, right? How do I develop when I'm inside of that fear? also being able to be in the mindfulness of, I'm in fear, but I am not fear, right. So Briana Bragg 34:05 yeah, you know, there's, there's a couple of different things here. You know, first of all, just again, finding your breath, using your breath, right, inhaling through the nose, exhaling through the nose, you can count your breath, you can there's, there's all different kinds of techniques that you can utilize to make focusing on your breath, not so boring as it can be. I know I've had to use that a couple times myself not so much from the rage of being online, but more from just the emotional overwhelm that I was experienced. And I'm standing there in a grocery store. And, you know, we're all in masks, and there's elderly people out shopping, and I just I'm like, please go home, you know, we'll bring you your groceries, right, like, and the shelves are empty. And there's all of these emotions that that I found myself feeling when I'm out grocery shopping. And so I've had to find my own breath a few times, you know, inhaling deeply into my lungs and exhaling and just getting myself recalibrated. You know, The other thing is perspective. I, there's a video I have on YouTube where it's titled the blimp perspective. And I talked about, you know how you can shift your perspective in certain moments to look at I use a football game specifically of how you know you have the the players on the field, you have the coaches on the sideline, you have the fans in the stands, you have the coaches in the box, and then you have the blimp at the top. And, you know, sometimes we get so in the game, right, as the players on the field that we forget that there's a whole community around us that's feeling certain things too. And they're going through their own emotional roller coasters with all of this. And so being able to change and shift your perspective. Instead, again, instead of you know, that person on the road who cut you off, being a jerk, maybe that person that got too close to you in line wasn't paying attention. And as simple like, hey, do you mind to step back a couple steps is sufficient versus you know, losing your cool and yelling or screaming or being all emotional and causing a scene, having some patience with yourself and with others. I mean, the bottom line is, we are all in this together. And I know everybody wants to get back to work. And I know everybody wants things to be back to normal. But we have to respect the process of this virus and, you know, have have just shift your perspective just a little bit, I mean, maybe you find a game to play on your phone, or maybe you have a conversation with a friend while you're standing in line or, you know, there's so many other things that you can do, to kind of shift out of that reactive phase of I'm mad because I have to stand in line and they're pacing me to, I can have some patience during this time to make sure that I am safe and others are safe. Ari Gronich 36:49 So I'm going to take it to the to the last kind of nth degree on what's been going on quite a bit. So we've had an increase in domestic violence, we've had an increase in child abuse, and we've had an increase in suicides. And I believe all of which can be reduced through mindfulness and meditation. Agreed. So I just want you to kind of address those things on what's going on when you're inside, it's kind of like you're in a prison, right? And what happens in a prison typically is a lot more violence and a lot more damage than what's happening on the outside world. And that's just because you're in a confined space. So, you know, can you help address for those people who may be either going through that kind of thing, or, or feeling the way that those people might feel? You know, how can we help reduce what's going on in that respect? Briana Bragg 38:06 Well, that's a that's a lot. That's a loaded question, given all three of those scenarios, you know, because I personally believe if everyone would just learn to breath the right way, a lot of that would be reduced, right? You know, instead of getting mad and angry and taking it out on your spouse, or your child, you know, learning to take that pause, learning to take a moment to timeout before you respond or react to a certain situation, could reduce these things. Having a different perspective on the situation could certainly reduce some of these things. And so I wish that we were all trained from a very early age in mindfulness and meditation, because it's really the art of becoming self aware of how you're reacting and how you're responding that minimises that, you know, unfortunately, a lot of these people are just reacting, they're, they're just in old, behavioral and thought patterns that are causing them to react. And then a lot of them, you know, put alcohol and things on top of it cause even more of an explosive reaction. First and foremost, you know, learning to if you are the person who's the victim in one of those situations, you know, learning to try and calm your own internal reactions is important as well, trying to get out of that situation. You know, can't really go anywhere right now, but going into another room. You know, and getting calming self soothing your own self can sometimes help to de escalate that situation. From a suicide standpoint, you know, really, in the purse in perspective, the thing that I've I struggled with my own depression at one time, and what I think found fascinating when I started really studying the brain of what happens in depression is that again, going back to those neural pathways, when we are depressed, neural noon, highways are created in the brain right to think and process things in a negative way. And the reason that depression is so hard to fight is because once your brain has that new highway, so to say that it's going down, that's its go to, that's the highway that now becomes traveled most often. And so when it's a depressive my state of mind, you know, one negative thought is going to lead to another, another negative thought, and then you're just going down that highway and down that dark path, the dark rabbit hole as I refer to it, and so you really have to practice even more stopping the car from going down that highway to begin with. And that takes a lot of practice. And that takes, you know, it was for me, it was almost eight months coming out of my depression, where I was practicing mindfulness for 45 minutes meditation for 45 minutes to an hour and a half a day, of just consistently repeating that one method that I've found to be very effective, especially in this time, for people who are facing extreme amounts of anxiety and depression is when you know, we, we may not always know when the negative thought patterns are going to start. But we usually can find ourselves there, somewhere in the middle of all of it, and just saying stop, three times out loud, is one tool that can literally put a stop to your thoughts. Another tool that I found is writing them down, journaling them, sometimes it's, it's really important to get those thoughts out. And then once they're out, and maybe you go back and read them, maybe you burn them, throw them away, whatever you choose to do, or you save them for a later date. But just having those thoughts out of your mind, helps to provide some reprieve for you. And again, you know, using utilizing your breath to help calm that central nervous system in the state of fight or flight that we tend to get into when we're in those different modes of reaction. Ari Gronich 42:21 Thank you. Anything else that you would like to, you know, to talk about and address? Before we we end the call? Normally, I would take questions right about now. But you know, we'll go back to after I put this on. On the on Facebook, we can go back and answer any questions that anybody might have in the comment section. Yeah, and do it that way, but Briana Bragg 42:53 happy to answer them, then Ari Gronich 42:54 if somebody just had a really good question for you. Briana Bragg 42:59 Well, one thing I just want to leave with is, you know, that we, we are the only it's so important for us to remember that we're the only species on this planet that has the ability to control our thoughts, that truly has the ability to control where we allow ourselves to go or not go with within our mind. And I know it's difficult for everyone right now. And I'm certainly not up here with a message of don't feel through your emotions and don't allow, you know, when the feelings of overwhelm or isolation or anxiety come You know, just push them down and don't deal with them. That's not what this message is about. What this message is, is you don't have to become them. You don't have to stay in them. You know, it's okay to recognize your feelings. I had to do this earlier today, I woke up in one of those moods. And you know, I went for a walk, change your state, move your body, you know whether you do something with exercise, you get out and take a walk in nature, you dance around your living room to your favorite song, shifting your state can help you get out of those patterns. You know, knowing that you have the ability within you to control your mind to manage your thoughts, instead of allowing them to manage you is an important factor here in being able to utilize some of the tools we've discussed. And there's so many more. But just being able to utilize some of the tools that we've discussed, to help you manage where you are right now. And you know, we have a blog where we're sharing different ways. In fact, in one of our last articles I shared you know, if you were let go from your job, or if you have kids at home, how are some of the ways that you can actually shift your thinking for the time being, to get yourself out of that negative state and into a more positive frame of mind. And so just knowing that you can shift and change your mind is really important utilizing the tools that are available to you And I know we're physically distancing, but having that social interaction with people, whether it's through zoom, whether it's through Facebook Lives, whether it's FaceTime, there's all these third party apps that have come up that people are using, you know, connect with people, just sending a simple text message and getting involved in a conversation can get you out of those feelings of isolation, for example. And so try to, you know, if you think about somebody reach out and ask how they're doing, and caring for other people will help to shift your own state. Ari Gronich 45:32 Awesome, how can people get a hold of you, Briana Bragg 45:35 we're all over the places vacation of the mind. So we're we have a Facebook group, as well as a page. In our Facebook group, we are offering mindfulness discussions on different topics every week, three times a week, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, as well as a 10 minute meditation. We're also on YouTube, we have a ton of discussions on YouTube, as well as pre recorded meditations that you can go and listen to anytime you want. Some of them are around some of the challenges we're currently facing. Others are for stress reduction, visualization, for protecting productive days at work. We're on insight timer, and SoundCloud and Instagram, you name it, you can find us and then you know, if you want to contact me directly, you can just go to our website, fill out a contact form or us info@vacationofthemind.com. Ari Gronich 46:23 Awesome. I was thinking about this while you were while you were talking earlier. And I think for some of the people who are out of work right now, and not really sure what prospect they'll have at going being able to go back to the same job that they've had. One of the things that they might think about, is becoming a vacation of the mind practitioner, and taking that into their corporations and their places of business and their families. So maybe we'll figure out getting a link for them. When when we air it. And so that somebody can if they're interested in exploring a possibility of a new career, they can become vacation of the mind practitioners. Yeah, thank Briana Bragg 47:18 you so much for saying that. Ari, I appreciate that. We are offering our course at 50% off right now to help given you know, the landscape of everything, the COVID challenge, I really like that I'm going to adopt that into my language. We're offering 50% off, I'll certainly provide a link. And it's a self paced online course. So we've had a few teachers take the course we've had some people in the health and wellness space, take the course. And we're in talks with a couple of organizations to launch it through their organization as a way for people to earn an additional certification or switch careers right now or just earn CEC credits for those people who might need additional credits for the year. Now's a great time we have the extra time on our hands. Thank you. I appreciate you saying that. Ari Gronich 48:04 Yeah, no, absolutely. I think even for nurses and doctors that are going through this, that it would be a great opportunity for them. There are a lot of nurses and doctors are being furloughed right now. So being able to use this with your patience, you know, it lowers the, you know, the stress response, cortisol levels, and raises the immune system. So might be a good, you know, a good place for for people to be able to do that is inside the hospitals. And, and like I said, I'm an outside of the box thinker. And I think very strangely about different things. But, you know, I also like to put pieces together. And I think that what you're doing can be so valuable for the community at large for teachers, like you mentioned, teachers who are taking them when they come back, they're going to have this skill set that they'll be able to translate to their to their students. Yeah, especially kindergarten and not, you know, kindergarten on up preschool teachers, nannies daycare workers. You know, this is something that police officers, this is something that they can use in order to not only calm themselves, but help calm situations and problem solve and so on. So well we'll see if we can get a link out of the bottom of of the video when we're done with the technological, technological devices and thank you so much. And if you'd like to get a hold of me, you can reach me at Ari Gronich, at basically anything dot com. So Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, Twitter, I'm Ari Gronich, on all of those. Or you can go to Amazon and check out my email. New Book a new tomorrow activating your vision for a better world, which is all about creating the world that we want to live in. Might one of my favorite sayings is we made all this up, we can make it up different, it doesn't have to be the way that we made it up. I love that. And always, like, you know, like Legos, we could tear them apart and create something new. And obviously, you know, we've got a system that isn't quite working. So let's just take it apart, you know, brick by brick, and rebuild it in a way that makes what we want, more easily and readily available. So, you know, if, if you'd like more information about that, please do get ahold of me and I look forward to chatting with you. And thank you so much, Brianna, for your time, your energy, your wisdom and knowledge. Briana Bragg 50:54 Thank you, Ari. It was a pleasure being here with you and really excited to partner with you. Ari Gronich 50:59 Absolutely. Thank you so much. Thank you for listening to this podcast. I appreciate all you do to create a new tomorrow for yourself and those around you. If you'd like to take this information further and are interested in joining a community of like minded people who are all passionate about activating their vision for a better world. Go to the website, create a new tomorrow.com and find out how you can be part of making a bigger difference. I have a gift for you just for checking it out and look forward to seeing you take the leap and joining our private paid mastermind community. Until then, see you on the next episode.