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Today on the show we have Casey Hill, CMO of DoWhatWorks, a patented growth experiment tracking engine that reveals which website changes actually drive results. Casey brings experience from ActiveCampaign, his work as a Stanford instructor and advisor, and years of research into how leading companies like Slack, Shopify, and Asana run experiments. In this episode, Casey breaks down why most A/B tests fail and how to focus on the few elements that truly move the needle. We explore why two CTAs often outperform one, why customer logo bars underdeliver, and why expectation-to-reality alignment is the hidden driver of both conversions and retention. Casey also shares how DoWhatWorks blends large-scale data with human research to surface reliable best practices, why expansion revenue has become its biggest growth lever, and how enterprise clients are tackling churn by setting clear expectations from day one. We also discuss how onboarding experiments reduce early churn, why traffic sources should shape your CTA strategy, and why simplicity always wins on pricing pages.As usual, I'm excited to hear what you think of this episode, and if you have any feedback, I would love to hear from you. You can email me directly on andrew@churn.fm. Don't forget to follow us on X.Key Resources:DoWhatWorksLinkedIn | Casey HillEp 235 The Lifecycle of Loyalty: Tackling Churn at Critical Stages in the User JourneySlackAsanaKlaviyoShopifyRampHockeyStackLinearY CombinatorHotjarClayHexBufferRipplingOptimizelyAmplitudeWebflowAdobe TargetBetScoresChurn FM is sponsored by Vitally, the all-in-one Customer Success Platform.
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2791? Spiritual, Judgement, Supersize And Be A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #spiritualhealth #spiritualjudgment #howjudgmentalareyou
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2789? Spiritual Practices, Rituals, & Habits, Supersize And Be A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #spiritualhealth #spiritualritual #spiritualpractice #spiritualhabit
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2787? Spiritual Health, Life Framework Connections, Supersize And Be A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #spiritualhealth #lifeframeworkconnection #spiritualconnection #onewordtodescribeconnection
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2786? Spiritual Lifeline Exercise, Supersize And Be A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #spiritualhealth #spirituallifelineexercise #top3 #yourtimeline
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2785? Spiritual Health, Life Purpose, Supersize And Be A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #spiritualhealth #spiritualpurpose #sprituallifepurpose
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2784? Spiritual, Expectations, Supersize, And Be A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #spiritualhealth #expectations #spiritualexpectations #shareyourexpectations
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2779? Spiritual SOAP, Action, HHI Tool, Supersize And Be A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #spiritualSOAPframework #spiritualhealth #SOAPframework #analyzealternatives #action #HHItool
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2778? Spiritual SOAP, Options, Supersize And Be A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #spiritualSOAPframework #spiritualhealth #SOAPframework #options #brainstrom
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2774? Spiritual Thoughts & Beliefs, Supersize, And Be A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness ##spiritualthought #spiritualbelief #contemplatespiritual
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2767? Desired State, Emotional Health, IDEANCE Process, Supersize And Be A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #emotionalhealth #IDEANCEprocess #desiredstate #whatdoyouwant
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2769? IDEANCE Process, Emotional Health, Action, Supersize And Be A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #emotionalhealth #IDEANCEprocess #actions #ananlyzeoptions
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2770? Next, Emotional Health, IDEANCE Process, Supersize And Be A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #emotionalhealth #IDEANCEprocess #next #measureprogress #nextrightthing #whatnext
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2771? Emotional Health, IDEANCE Process, Celebrate, Supersize And Be A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #emotionalhealth #IDEANCEprocess #celebrate #wins #lessonslearned #howcelebrate
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2773? Spiritual Health, Supersize, And Be A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #spiritualhealth #spiritualwellbeing #yourdefinition
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2772? Emotional Health, IDEANCE Process, Educate, Supersize And Be A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #emotionalhealth #IDEANCEprocess #educate #sharewhatyoulearn #teachtoreinforcelearning
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2766? IDEANCE Process, Is?, Emotional Health, Supersize And Be A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #emotionalhealth #IDEANCEprocess #is #currentstory
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2764? Pain, Emotional Health, Supersize And Be A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #emotionalhealth #pain #handlingpainandemotions #relievepain
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2763? CC Strategy, Emotional Health, Supersize And Be A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #emotionalhealth #ccstrategy #cardcarryingstrategy #positiveenergycreator
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2762? Emotional Well-Being, Journaling, Supersize And Be A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #emotionalhealth #journaling #journaltypes #journalforwellbeing
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2761? Emotional Health, LGNES, Supersize And Be A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #emotionalhealth #letgoofnegativeemotion #letgotools #lettinggostrategies #releasewhatdoesnotserveyou #LGNES
This episode features an interview with Casey Hill, CMO at DoWhatWorks, a company that removes the guesswork from website optimization, tracking millions of websites daily to find winning A/B tests from major brands.Casey provides actionable advice on effective thought leadership, influencer marketing, and various ways to optimize your website. Key Takeaways:Promoting customer's posts about your company can be a great way to spread an outside vantage point, and customers are typically happy to have you pay to promote their pages. Test all your assumptions and learn what makes sense for your business. Try to test components of your website that you may not have initially thought to look into. Be cautious when it comes to social proof and unintended signalling with third party reviews. A lot of marketers do this poorly. Quote: Most people do social proof really poorly. The way now, and this is across the board, so we talked about logos, but it also applies to G2 reviews or third party reviews. I think people don't pay attention enough to unintended signaling. Like someone puts 4.4 stars with 300 plus reviews and someone sees that, and that might actually might be a negative signal, right? And so like they look at that, they're like, 'oh, I thought you were much bigger. You only have 300 reviews.' Or in our world today is 4.4 good or bad, right? Like some people might see 4.4, like if I see it on a restaurant or I'm like, eh it's okay. Like it's kind of a neutral one to me, right? So I think you wanna be really careful about unintended signaling.Episode Timestamps: *(07:32) The Trust Tree: Create content that will be shared by other outlets*(20:30) The Playbook: Convert faster, talk about your capabilities instead of benefits*(49:53) Quick Hits: Casey's quick hitsSponsor:Pipeline Visionaries is brought to you by Qualified.com. Qualified helps you turn your website into a pipeline generation machine with PipelineAI. Engage and convert your most valuable website visitors with live chat, chatbots, meeting scheduling, intent data, and Piper, your AI SDR. Visit Qualified.com to learn more.Links:Connect with Ian on LinkedInConnect with Casey on LinkedIn Learn more about DoWhatWorksLearn more about Caspian Studios
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2760? Let Go, Negative Emotions, 8x, Supersize And Be A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #emotionalhealth #letgoofnegativeemotion #letgotools #lettinggostrategies #releasewhatdoesnotserveyou
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2759? Five Love Languages, Emotional Health, Supersize And Be A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #emotionalhealth #love #lovebusiness #lovecustomers #fivelovelanguages #whatisyourbusinesslovelanguage
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2758? Love, Emotional Health, Supersize And Be A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #emotionalhealth #love #lovebusiness #lovecustomers #loveothers #loveself #comptetitiveadvantage
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2757? Emotional Health, Flip Switch, Supersize And Be A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #emotionalhealth #flipswitch #flipbadtogoodfeeling
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2755? Emotional Energy, Emotional Well-Being, Supersize And Be A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #emotionalhealth #emotionalenergy
“Most marketers are copying what their competitors are doing without realizing they might be copying the losing version,” says Casey Hill, CMO at DoWhatWorks.In this episode of The Content Cocktail Hour, Jonathan Gandolf welcomes back Casey Hill to explore why marketers need to question the default choices they make and how actual A/B test data is reshaping what “best practice” really means. Casey unpacks what thousands of tests reveal about things like social proof, button copy, and AI messaging, and why most marketers are accidentally copying losing strategies from their competitors. They also dig into how internal politics and funding optics can sometimes override what the data says, and how to navigate that tension without sacrificing performance.In this episode, you'll learn:Why generic AI messaging is underperforming and what to do insteadHow to build testable hypotheses without compromising creativityHow to use test data to influence stakeholders and avoid opinion-based decisionsResources:Connect with Jonathan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathan-gandolf/Explore AudiencePlus: https://audienceplus.comConnect with Casey on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/caseyhill/ Explore DoWhatWorks: https://www.dowhatworks.io/ Subscribe to the DoWhatWorks Newsletter: https://www.dowhatworks.io/newsletter Timestamps:(00:00) Intro(01:22) Understanding DoWhatWorks(02:13) The importance of data in decision making(03:00) The role of algorithms in marketing(06:46) The power of social proof(07:58) Effective use of customer logos(11:34) The evolution of marketing norms(16:54) AI messaging in marketing(24:32) Unpopular opinions in B2B marketing
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2752? Progress, Emotional SOAP, Supersize And Be A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #emotionalhealth #emotionalchallenge #SOAPframework #progress #howwillyouknow #measure
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2750? SOAP Process, Emotions, Options, Supersize And Be A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #emotionalhealth #emotionalchallenge #SOAPframework #options #1031tool #brainstormwaystofillthegap
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2747? 10 Emotional Power Habits, Supersize And Be A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #emotionalhealth #10emotionpowerhabits #emotionpower
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2746? Self-Love, Emotional Health, Supersize And Be A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #emotionalhealth #selflove #howshowlove
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2745? Emotional Beings, Supersize And Be A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #emotionalhealth #peopleareemotionalbeings
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2744? ID Emotional Core Values, Supersize And Be A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #emotionalhealth #emotionalcorevalues #idcorevalues
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2741? Emotional Health, Your Definition, Supersize And Be A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #emotionalhealth #yourdefinition #emotion
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2741? Mental Health, IDEANCE Process, Educate, Supersize And Be A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #mentalhealth #IDEANCEprocess #educate #teachtoreinforcelearning
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2740? Celebrate, IDEANCE Process, Mental Health, Supersize And Be A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #mentalhealth #IDEANCEprocess #celebrate
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2739? Mental Health, IDEANCE Process, Next, Supersize And Be A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #mentalhealth #IDEANCEprocess #next #measureprogress
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2738? Mental Health, IDEANCE Process, Eisenhower Matrix, Supersize And Be A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #mentalhealth #IDEANCEprocess #action
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2737? Explore Options, Mental Health, Supersize And Be A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #mentalhealth #IDEANCEprocess #exploreoptions #brainstorm
Be A Better You Annual Challenge Day 208, IDEANCE Process Step 3: Explore Options! Do one thing every day to be a better you! Join us every day in 2025 for a quick challenge that is all about you improving and creating the life you want! https://www.facebook.com/ThrivingSharon Ask your questions and share your wisdom! #beabetteryouannualchallenge #mentalhealth #doonethingeverydaytobeabetteryou #IDEANCEprocess #exploreoptions #brainstorm #1031tool
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2736? Mental Health, IDEANCE Process, Desired State, Supersize And Be A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #mentalhealth #IDEANCEprocess #desiredstate #whatdoyouwantformentalhealth
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2735? Mental Health, IDEANCE Process, What Is?, Supersize And Be A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #mentalhealth #IDEANCEprocess #whatiscurrentsituation
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2731? Optimism, Mental Health, Supersize And Be A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #mentalhealth #optimism #doonethingeverydaytobeabetteryou
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2730? Killing ANTS, Mental Well-Being, Supersizing And Being A Better Person! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #mentalhealth #ANTS #automaticnegativethoughts #killingANTS
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2729? ANTS, Supersizing, And Being A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #mentalhealth #ANTS #automaticnegativethoughts
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2726? Mindfulness, Mental Health, Supersize And Be A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #mentalhealth #mindfulness #benefitsofmindfulness
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2725? Mental Health, 7 Whys Exercise, Supersize And Be A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #mentalhealth #7whysexercise #rootcause
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2723? Mental SOAP, Progress, Supersize And Be A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #mentalhealth #SOAPframework #progress #howwillyouknow #measure
What's SHE Up To Now Day 2722? Action Orientation, DM Time Lapse, Supersize And Be A Better You! Drop in to get the real scoop--the good, the bad, the ugly, the truth (well my truth anyway). https://facebook.com/beme2thrive #beabetteryouannualchallenge #supersizebusiness #mentalhealth #SOAPframework #action #actionorientation #decisionmakingtimelapse